# Ramsey Show Master Transcript Book (Part 2: Episodes 145-289)

This book contains the compiled study transcripts for the @ramsey_show YouTube channel (Part 2: Episodes 145 to 289).

## Table of Contents

- [145. Stop Chasing Payments and Choose Freedom | October 30, 2025](#145-stop-chasing-payments-and-choose-freedom-october-30-2025)
- [146. Stop Excusing Debt as a Dream | August 26, 2025](#146-stop-excusing-debt-as-a-dream-august-26-2025)
- [147. Stop Hoping Someone Else Will Fix Your Money | December 15, 2025](#147-stop-hoping-someone-else-will-fix-your-money-december-15-2025)
- [148. Stop Ignoring The Financial Red Flags In Your Life | November 24, 2025](#148-stop-ignoring-the-financial-red-flags-in-your-life-november-24-2025)
- [149. Stop Letting Dumb Decisions Control Your Financial Future | March 18, 2026](#149-stop-letting-dumb-decisions-control-your-financial-future-march-18-2026)
- [150. Stop Letting Emotions Drive Your Money Decisions | April 30, 2026](#150-stop-letting-emotions-drive-your-money-decisions-april-30-2026)
- [151. Stop Letting Emotions Ruin Your Finances | February 11, 2026](#151-stop-letting-emotions-ruin-your-finances-february-11-2026)
- [152. Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money | November 27, 2025](#152-stop-letting-fear-drive-your-money-november-27-2025)
- [153. Stop Letting Other People's Problems Ruin Your Finances | (Best-Of for March 21, 2025)](#153-stop-letting-other-peoples-problems-ruin-your-finances-best-of-for-march-21-2025)
- [154. Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances | October 23, 2025](#154-stop-letting-other-people-wreck-your-finances-october-23-2025)
- [155. Stop Letting Yesterday's Mistakes Control Today's Decisions | March 3, 2026](#155-stop-letting-yesterdays-mistakes-control-todays-decisions-march-3-2026)
- [156. Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck—Start Living With Options | April 22, 2026](#156-stop-living-paycheck-to-paycheckstart-living-with-options-april-22-2026)
- [157. Stop Looking For The Financial Shortcut—Start Doing the Work | December 9, 2025](#157-stop-looking-for-the-financial-shortcutstart-doing-the-work-december-9-2025)
- [158. Stop Making Excuses for Bad Money Choices | August 4, 2025](#158-stop-making-excuses-for-bad-money-choices-august-4-2025)
- [159. Stop Starting Over and Break the Cycle for Good | May 26, 2026](#159-stop-starting-over-and-break-the-cycle-for-good-may-26-2026)
- [160. Stop Trying To Borrow Your Way Into Freedom | September 26, 2025](#160-stop-trying-to-borrow-your-way-into-freedom-september-26-2025)
- [161. Surviving the Money Storm Starts with Tough Choices | Best-Of for March 27, 2025](#161-surviving-the-money-storm-starts-with-tough-choices-best-of-for-march-27-2025)
- [162. Take Control Of Your Money Before It Takes Control Of You | August 13, 2025](#162-take-control-of-your-money-before-it-takes-control-of-you-august-13-2025)
- [163. Take Control of Your Finances by Setting Boundaries | February 9, 2026](#163-take-control-of-your-finances-by-setting-boundaries-february-9-2026)
- [164. Take Ownership Of Where Your Life Is Headed | February 20, 2026](#164-take-ownership-of-where-your-life-is-headed-february-20-2026)
- [165. Take The First Step Toward Financial Freedom Today | April 23, 2026](#165-take-the-first-step-toward-financial-freedom-today-april-23-2026)
- [166. The All-New EveryDollar: Where Margin Meets Momentum](#166-the-all-new-everydollar-where-margin-meets-momentum)
- [167. The Annual Giving Show: A Celebration of Radical Generosity | December 19, 2025](#167-the-annual-giving-show-a-celebration-of-radical-generosity-december-19-2025)
- [168. The Best Financial Plans Don’t Rely On Debt | May 27, 2026](#168-the-best-financial-plans-dont-rely-on-debt-may-27-2026)
- [169. The Dave Ramsey Show (REPLAY from January 5, 2021)](#169-the-dave-ramsey-show-replay-from-january-5-2021)
- [170. The Dave Ramsey Show (Replay from November 20, 2020)](#170-the-dave-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-20-2020)
- [171. The Hard Road Is The One That Moves You Forward | December 1, 2025](#171-the-hard-road-is-the-one-that-moves-you-forward-december-1-2025)
- [172. The Most Loving Thing You Can Do Is Be Honest About Money | May 27, 2025](#172-the-most-loving-thing-you-can-do-is-be-honest-about-money-may-27-2025)
- [173. The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026](#173-the-only-hack-to-paying-off-debt-is-doing-the-hard-work-january-7-2026)
- [174. The Payment Mentality Is Keeping You Broke | April 14, 2026](#174-the-payment-mentality-is-keeping-you-broke-april-14-2026)
- [175. The Ramsey Show (June 9, 2023)](#175-the-ramsey-show-june-9-2023)
- [176. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-12-23)](#176-the-ramsey-show-previously-recorded-9-12-23)
- [177. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-7-23)](#177-the-ramsey-show-previously-recorded-9-7-23)
- [178. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY)](#178-the-ramsey-show-replay)
- [179. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 25, 2023)](#179-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-25-2023)
- [180. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 26, 2023)](#180-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-26-2023)
- [181. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 27, 2023)](#181-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-27-2023)
- [182. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 28, 2023)](#182-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-28-2023)
- [183. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 29, 2023)](#183-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-29-2023)
- [184. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for January 1, 2024)](#184-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-january-1-2024)
- [185. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 4, 2024)](#185-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-july-4-2024)
- [186. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 5, 2024)](#186-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-july-5-2024)
- [187. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 15, 2021)](#187-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-15-2021)
- [188. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 20, 2021)](#188-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-20-2021)
- [189. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 21, 2021)](#189-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-21-2021)
- [190. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 22, 2021)](#190-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-22-2021)
- [191. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 9, 2021)](#191-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-april-9-2021)
- [192. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 10, 2021)](#192-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-10-2021)
- [193. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 12, 2021)](#193-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-12-2021)
- [194. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 23, 2021)](#194-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-23-2021)
- [195. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2021)](#195-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-24-2021)
- [196. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2022)](#196-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-24-2022)
- [197. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 25, 2021)](#197-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-25-2021)
- [198. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 8, 2021)](#198-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-8-2021)
- [199. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 9, 2021)](#199-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-february-9-2021)
- [200. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 11, 2021)](#200-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-11-2021)
- [201. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 3, 2021)](#201-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-3-2021)
- [202. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 4, 2021)](#202-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-4-2021)
- [203. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 8, 2021)](#203-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-march-8-2021)
- [204. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 15, 2021)](#204-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-15-2021)
- [205. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 17, 2021)](#205-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-17-2021)
- [206. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 19, 2021)](#206-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-19-2021)
- [207. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 8, 2021)](#207-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-november-8-2021)
- [208. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 13, 2021)](#208-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-13-2021)
- [209. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 14, 2021)](#209-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-14-2021)
- [210. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 15, 2021)](#210-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-15-2021)
- [211. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 20, 2021)](#211-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-20-2021)
- [212. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 25, 2021)](#212-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-25-2021)
- [213. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 26, 2021)](#213-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-october-26-2021)
- [214. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 23, 2024)](#214-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-23-2024)
- [215. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 24, 2024)](#215-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-24-2024)
- [216. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 25, 2024)](#216-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-25-2024)
- [217. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 26, 2024)](#217-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-26-2024)
- [218. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 27, 2024)](#218-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-27-2024)
- [219. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 30, 2024)](#219-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-30-2024)
- [220. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 31, 2024)](#220-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-december-31-2024)
- [221. The Ramsey Show (Replay for January 1, 2025)](#221-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-january-1-2025)
- [222. The Ramsey Show (Replay for March 29, 2024)](#222-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-march-29-2024)
- [223. The Ramsey Show (Replay for May 27, 2024)](#223-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-may-27-2024)
- [224. The Ramsey Show (Replay from May 25, 2021)](#224-the-ramsey-show-replay-from-may-25-2021)
- [225. The Ramsey Show (Replay of the 2022 Annual Giving Show)](#225-the-ramsey-show-replay-of-the-2022-annual-giving-show)
- [226. The Ramsey Show Live from Chicago](#226-the-ramsey-show-live-from-chicago)
- [227. The Ramsey Show Live from Orlando](#227-the-ramsey-show-live-from-orlando)
- [228. The Ramsey Show on Tour in Denver | May 15, 2026](#228-the-ramsey-show-on-tour-in-denver-may-15-2026)
- [229. The Ramsey Show | Replay for November 28, 2024](#229-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-november-28-2024)
- [230. The Ramsey Show | Replay for November 29, 2024](#230-the-ramsey-show-replay-for-november-29-2024)
- [231. There's Always Hope When Facing Financial Hardship | February 13, 2026](#231-theres-always-hope-when-facing-financial-hardship-february-13-2026)
- [232. There's No Financial Progress Without A Plan | August 11, 2025](#232-theres-no-financial-progress-without-a-plan-august-11-2025)
- [233. There Are No Shortcuts To Building Wealth | October 21, 2025](#233-there-are-no-shortcuts-to-building-wealth-october-21-2025)
- [234. There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026](#234-there-is-hope-when-debt-and-life-feel-overwhelming-january-14-2026)
- [235. There’s Hope on the Other Side of Your Worst Case Scenario | November 26, 2025](#235-theres-hope-on-the-other-side-of-your-worst-case-scenario-november-26-2025)
- [236. We’re $100K in Debt and Living in a Camper | February 4, 2026](#236-were-100k-in-debt-and-living-in-a-camper-february-4-2026)
- [237. When Life Gets Hard, Choose Financial Stability | April 16, 2026](#237-when-life-gets-hard-choose-financial-stability-april-16-2026)
- [238. When Life Hits Hard, Stay Focused on What You Can Control | May 13, 2026](#238-when-life-hits-hard-stay-focused-on-what-you-can-control-may-13-2026)
- [239. When Money Feels Confusing, Clarity Matters Most | April 13, 2026](#239-when-money-feels-confusing-clarity-matters-most-april-13-2026)
- [240. When Money Gets Complicated, Clarity and Wisdom Matter Most | January 30, 2026](#240-when-money-gets-complicated-clarity-and-wisdom-matter-most-january-30-2026)
- [241. When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026](#241-when-unexpected-consequences-force-you-to-grow-up-january-29-2026)
- [242. When You Feel Overwhelmed, Control the Controllables | September 12, 2025](#242-when-you-feel-overwhelmed-control-the-controllables-september-12-2025)
- [243. When the Numbers Feel Crushing, There’s Still Hope | February 26, 2026](#243-when-the-numbers-feel-crushing-theres-still-hope-february-26-2026)
- [244. Wisdom With Money Means Moving Slowly | January 9, 2026](#244-wisdom-with-money-means-moving-slowly-january-9-2026)
- [245. Yesterday’s Choices Don’t Define You - Change Starts Today! | September 23, 2025](#245-yesterdays-choices-dont-define-you---change-starts-today-september-23-2025)
- [246. You'll Never Prosper When You're Tied Down With Payments | October 7, 2025](#246-youll-never-prosper-when-youre-tied-down-with-payments-october-7-2025)
- [247. You Breathe Easier Without Payments Choking You | September 4, 2025](#247-you-breathe-easier-without-payments-choking-you-september-4-2025)
- [248. You Can't Build Wealth While Buried In Payments | August 8, 2025](#248-you-cant-build-wealth-while-buried-in-payments-august-8-2025)
- [249. You Can't Out Earn Bad Financial Behaviors | June 4, 2026](#249-you-cant-out-earn-bad-financial-behaviors-june-4-2026)
- [250. You Can Rebuild No Matter Where You Are | October 27, 2025](#250-you-can-rebuild-no-matter-where-you-are-october-27-2025)
- [251. You Can Stay Broke Or Start Changing | October 10, 2025](#251-you-can-stay-broke-or-start-changing-october-10-2025)
- [252. You Can Still Take Charge Of Your Financial Future | October 17, 2025](#252-you-can-still-take-charge-of-your-financial-future-october-17-2025)
- [253. You Can’t Afford To Be Careless With Money | October 2, 2025](#253-you-cant-afford-to-be-careless-with-money-october-2-2025)
- [254. You Can’t Build Wealth Until You Build Stability | November 7, 2025](#254-you-cant-build-wealth-until-you-build-stability-november-7-2025)
- [255. You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026](#255-you-cant-build-wealth-while-carrying-other-peoples-problems-january-1-2026)
- [256. You Can’t Control the Past, But You CAN Control the Path Forward | November 18, 2025](#256-you-cant-control-the-past-but-you-can-control-the-path-forward-november-18-2025)
- [257. You Can’t Drift Into Financial Peace | March 13, 2026](#257-you-cant-drift-into-financial-peace-march-13-2026)
- [258. You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions | December 2, 2025](#258-you-cant-fix-people-by-funding-their-bad-decisions-december-2-2025)
- [259. You Can’t Hack Your Way Out of Debt | September 11, 2025](#259-you-cant-hack-your-way-out-of-debt-september-11-2025)
- [260. You Can’t Heal Your Finances Without Changing Your Habits | March 9, 2026](#260-you-cant-heal-your-finances-without-changing-your-habits-march-9-2026)
- [261. You Can’t Make the Same Money Mistakes and Get Better Outcomes | January 28, 2026](#261-you-cant-make-the-same-money-mistakes-and-get-better-outcomes-january-28-2026)
- [262. You Can’t Outearn Your Stupidity | October 22, 2025](#262-you-cant-outearn-your-stupidity-october-22-2025)
- [263. You Can’t Win With Money Until You Decide What Matters Most | March 24, 2026](#263-you-cant-win-with-money-until-you-decide-what-matters-most-march-24-2026)
- [264. You Can’t Win With Money When Your Relationships Are Messy | December 29, 2025](#264-you-cant-win-with-money-when-your-relationships-are-messy-december-29-2025)
- [265. You Can’t Win With Money While Your Life Is In Financial Chaos | December 11, 2025](#265-you-cant-win-with-money-while-your-life-is-in-financial-chaos-december-11-2025)
- [266. You Don't Get Ahead By Coincidence | April 17, 2026](#266-you-dont-get-ahead-by-coincidence-april-17-2026)
- [267. You Don’t Build Wealth by Ignoring Basic Financial Principles | December 30, 2025](#267-you-dont-build-wealth-by-ignoring-basic-financial-principles-december-30-2025)
- [268. You Don’t Escape Debt by Waiting—You Escape by Acting | January 27, 2026](#268-you-dont-escape-debt-by-waitingyou-escape-by-acting-january-27-2026)
- [269. You Don’t Get Out of Debt by Accident—Choose Your Hard | January 20, 2026](#269-you-dont-get-out-of-debt-by-accidentchoose-your-hard-january-20-2026)
- [270. You Don’t Have To Live One Emergency Away From Broke | September 5, 2025](#270-you-dont-have-to-live-one-emergency-away-from-broke-september-5-2025)
- [271. You Don’t Have to Retire Broke—Time Changes Everything | June 5, 2026](#271-you-dont-have-to-retire-broketime-changes-everything-june-5-2026)
- [272. You Don’t Have to Stay Broke | August 25, 2025](#272-you-dont-have-to-stay-broke-august-25-2025)
- [273. You Get To Decide Your Next Financial Step | April 20, 2026](#273-you-get-to-decide-your-next-financial-step-april-20-2026)
- [274. You Have To Clean Up Your Financial Mess Before Building Wealth | October 1, 2025](#274-you-have-to-clean-up-your-financial-mess-before-building-wealth-october-1-2025)
- [275. You Won’t Win With Money by Accident | October 14, 2025](#275-you-wont-win-with-money-by-accident-october-14-2025)
- [276. Your Bank Account Shouldn’t Define You | April 15, 2026](#276-your-bank-account-shouldnt-define-you-april-15-2026)
- [277. Your Debt Will Catch You Eventually—Face It Now | December 12, 2025](#277-your-debt-will-catch-you-eventuallyface-it-now-december-12-2025)
- [278. Your Financial Chaos Ends Today | October 13, 2025](#278-your-financial-chaos-ends-today-october-13-2025)
- [279. Your Financial Comeback Starts Today | October 20, 2025](#279-your-financial-comeback-starts-today-october-20-2025)
- [280. Your Financial Progress Starts Now! | March 25, 2026](#280-your-financial-progress-starts-now-march-25-2026)
- [281. Your Financial Stupidity Has To Stop Today! | April 2, 2026](#281-your-financial-stupidity-has-to-stop-today-april-2-2026)
- [282. Your Money Isn’t the Problem—Your Plan Is | March 4, 2026](#282-your-money-isnt-the-problemyour-plan-is-march-4-2026)
- [283. Your Overspending Will Eventually Catch Up With You | Best-Of for March 26, 2025](#283-your-overspending-will-eventually-catch-up-with-you-best-of-for-march-26-2025)
- [284. Your Payments Are Keeping You From the Life You Want | May 22, 2026](#284-your-payments-are-keeping-you-from-the-life-you-want-may-22-2026)
- [285. You’ll Always Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck Until You Have a Budget | September 2, 2025](#285-youll-always-live-paycheck-to-paycheck-until-you-have-a-budget-september-2-2025)
- [286. You’re Either Building Wealth or Losing It | October 16, 2025](#286-youre-either-building-wealth-or-losing-it-october-16-2025)
- [287. You’re Not Stuck You Just Need a Plan | May 1, 2026](#287-youre-not-stuck-you-just-need-a-plan-may-1-2026)
- [288. You’re Not Stuck—You Just Need a Better Plan | March 23, 2026](#288-youre-not-stuckyou-just-need-a-better-plan-march-23-2026)
- [289. “Write the Check Today and Be Done With This Forever” | November 5, 2025](#289-write-the-check-today-and-be-done-with-this-forever-november-5-2025)

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## 145. Stop Chasing Payments and Choose Freedom | October 30, 2025


| Metadata | Value |
| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `1HRV9ni9f1w` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HRV9ni9f1w) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:00:54 |

---

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common [music] sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey [music] Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr. John Deloney and we're answering your questions. So you can give us a call at88255225.

[music] Up first we have Emma in Ohio kicking

off the [music] show. Hi Emma. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> So basically um the car I'm currently driving um there's still $15,000 owed on

it. Um and it's not in my name. Um my mom's ex-husband signed on it for me and

the divorce [clears throat] was messy.

Um, so he's been letting me pay it off while I'm still in college. Um, but the payments are 420 a month and it's just too high for my income right now. Okay.

>> Um, and I've tried to work with him to, you know, get it dealt with and he's not very cooperative. Um, >> well, he should be. His name's on it. If something happens to the car, it's all in his That's That's >> Are you on it at all?

>> No. >> Oh, then just drop it back off to him.

>> Yeah, that's Well, that's what I'm planning on doing today. I'm actually driving home. I it's two and a half hours away. I'm driving home and I have the opportunity to get a car um for a thousand down from a family friend who owns a dealership and he'll let me basically pay 200 a month on it and it's a $3,500 car that's within my means and

it's a reliable car. Um and so I guess

that's my question. Should I just, you know, drop it off and tell him because he's the only problem is he's threatening to sue my mom.

>> Well, what what's what's his basis legally to do that? Like I mean Emma Yeah, I was going to say I mean there's not much he can do in a court system unless there was something in the divorce decree that states that this was an asset or something. I don't know if there was something in there about the car. Is there >> the the only thing that I know that was in there was that he basically has the right to repossess it if it gets behind.

Yeah. Which is exactly >> It's his car. Just hand it to him. Just give it to him.

>> Yeah. Um which is kind of what I'm trying to explain to >> How old were you when you took this loan out from him?

I think I think I was freshly 19.

>> Okay.

>> And I'm 21 now.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> I'm I'm torn and I'm I'm I'm I'm talking to Rachel here on your behalf. I'm torn between it's his car. It's he signed the note for it and he gave it to a teenager, >> which is his issue. >> It's his issue. Give it back. And also, if you were 17 or 16, this would be a no-brainer for me. Part of it is you were 19 and you shook hands and said, "I'll pay this thing." >> And so there is I mean

>> you're going back on your word is what John's saying. >> But you can't you can't afford it >> from a moral standpoint. Well, and if we're talking all morals, he should be able to say, "Okay, great. If you can't pay it, >> right, >> then as the guy that put you in this position, let me go ahead and just sell it and like, yeah, and help you figure it out." Um, >> but please don't then go jump in to another family loan situation.

>> That's what I was going to say. You're not going to like that part of my advice. >> Yeah, don't do that. >> What's your um your Are you working or are you just a full-time student?

>> I work and go to school. Yes.

>> Okay. And do you have any money saved?

>> Um, just the I have 800 saved right now.

Um, and my I'm engaged in my future.

Mother-in-law was going to loan me another 200. >> Oh, no. No. Don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. >> Okay. We got to stop the We got to stop this whole borrowing money in general, let alone from people that we know.

>> So, Emma, I mean, if And again, you called the show. So, what I would do, number one, drop it. Drop off the car.

It's in his name. It's his issue. And yes, are you going back on your word?

Yes. But he also did this to an 18-year-old. So, it is kind of like, okay, or 19. And I don't know. It is what it is. And so that's his issue he's gonna have to figure out. And then for you, how much do you make? How much do you make a month? If you don't have this car payment, you're not paying 420. How much extra margin do you have on top of this 420 per month?

>> Uh I would probably have uh 1,500 for the

month. >> Uh total or extra?

>> Uh extra would be um an extra 500.

probably 500.

Okay. So, honestly, what I would probably do, Emma, is I would just I would work and it's so inconvenient. I know it is, but the car you're talking about is what, $3,000 or something, and just say, "Hey, it's going to take You have $800 that you're starting with," which is great. And just say, "Hey, this is going to take me a couple of months.

I'm going to be inconvenience. I'm probably going to be asking people for rides here and there." You know, I mean, it's going to be annoying for a few months, but that way you at least have cash saved up so you're not continuing this cycle.

>> You you're you're going to owe money to your mother-in-law first, which means

you're going to be in debt to her, not only financially, and she might be a great a great wonderful person. If she

called into the show, I would say just give you 200 bucks if that's what she wants to do. >> Yeah. Cuz what's $200 going to do? I don't get it. >> Well, it's going to get her $1,000 as a down payment. >> Oh, for the car.

>> Yeah. You can't You have to borrow the down payment to then for the privilege of borrowing more money from yet another family member.

>> Yeah. >> In the middle of a situation that you're dealing with, which is you borrowed money from a family member, it just creates so much internal chaos.

>> Yeah. And it'll literally be three months. >> Yeah. >> Three months. >> Yeah. >> To pay cash for it. And And the fact that it's a $3,000 what? $200, $3,200 car, maybe you can talk them down to 3,000. Keep saying that 2500 bucks. If I go get cash, >> if I have cash, can I pay you this in 60 days? You know, and and I would figure way out because what that's going to start, Emma, is this new way of not just

looking at money, but acting out of a set of principles that is going to be good for you long term. And so, and this is a really small step to do that. So, in my head, I'm like, >> it's really encouraging. You know what I mean?

That it's that you have the opportunity to buy this car. It's not that much money. You're working hard. You're making some good money that you can set aside each month.

Um >> here's how exactly how I would have this conversation. At 21 years old, I would call the family member who's going to sell this.

>> Um my my fiance's family friend.

>> Okay. I would call that family friend and say the following. I am dealing with

a relationship issue where I borrowed money from a family member and it has

cost me tons of grief and so I've made a commitment to not put relationships not

put money between me and those that I love and care about and so I really want that car. I don't have $3,200 and I've

committed to not borrowing money, especially from friends and from family.

And so, please hold that car for three months and I'm gonna work really, really hard to save up that money. Either what's going to happen is they're going to say, "Give me a,000 bucks and I'll just sell you this car cuz that's pretty awesome and noble and I want to be a part of supporting a a young 21-year-old like that." >> Or, >> I'm promise you there's going to be $3,000 cars that are all over the place coming up. So, if they sell it, then so be it. >> The you Ubering around and getting rides for 3 months will change your life because you will never ever ever ever ever borrow money again.

never find yourself in a situation where you owe your stepdad and your stepdad's threatening to sue >> your exepdad. I mean, it's just like that. Yeah. >> Good grief. But yeah, great. I hate that you're in this situation. totally honor the I mean appreciate the call, but um I

don't think we would be doing our job if we told you yes, get out of this bad situation where you borrowed money from a family member and go do it two to with two other people. I I wouldn't sleep well knowing that we told you to go do that. >> Yeah.

>> [music]

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right, let's head to Chris in Pennsylvania. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so I have a performance review tomorrow and uh I wanted to get some tips about how to ask for a raise.

>> Um do you not have one built into that that's that's triggered by performance?

Uh nothing triggered by performance though. We typically get um you know

yearly cost of living increases and uh a

firm performance um bonus at the end of the year based on how well the whole company does. >> Okay. >> So how much is so how much is are you slated to probably how much will what percentage will your income increase after tomorrow and how much more are you wanting?

Yeah, I'm thinking it's been going up about 4% for cost of living and then, you know, the the last couple years for bonuses have ranged from $4,000 to $8,000. >> Okay. And what are you wanting >> and I'll bet >> what are you thinking?

>> I don't know. I've been I've been thinking about asking for a raise for a couple years and because of the economy and you know the things that are going on with COVID, I've just been sitting on it and I feel like the time is right um based on uh the increased workload that I've had over the past couple years.

Yeah. And I'm really getting to the point where my kids are almost college age and I'm looking to cash flow

college. And I don't want to use that as a reason to ask for the raise. Um because, you know, I feel like it should be based upon um my effort and my performance. Um but that's really what's driving it. Um I'm in baby step seven.

Um but I'm really, you know, trying to keep the kids from staying out of debt.

>> Okay. So, how much are you making a year right now? Um,

I'd say 125 is the base.

>> Okay. And then if you go out marketplace value for your line of work and what you're doing with your experience, how much should you probably be making considering your workload and everything?

>> I think it could range from starting there all the way up to maybe 150, 175.

>> Okay. Are you guessing, Chris, or have you done some research to know a lateral move at a different corporation or a different company would bump me up?

I've I've looked at a couple things, but I feel like they're all going to be in that range. >> Okay. So 150 isn't isn't wild. How long have you been with the company?

>> 10 years. >> Okay. So a good amount. Um yeah. Well,

we always say around Ramsay the phrase is always um that your raise is effective when you are. So when you are showing something that's going above and beyond that you are actually doing a workload that is more than what is

traditionally in bounds for the specific salary. I would have specific examples of that. I mean I would start with obviously a a you know a level of humility and gratitude um to your employer but to say hey here are the things that I'm seeing have increased over time. My salary has not kept pace with it. I have noticed that very similar positions in other companies are ranging more in this way. Um you know

can can we just talk through this or what is a what is a way a pathway for me

to be able to make more because that's my desire and you know kind of just open the floor and again with more humility than ever because I feel like from an employer standpoint a leader they're going to be more apt to want to help you if you're wanting to help yourself versus going in with demanding anything which you don't sound like a guy that's going to do that. I love that question.

When employees used to come at me and say, "Hey, I want a raise." That would always put me on the defensive. When they came in and said, "I want a path to

$100,000 or I want a path to

>> 150 in your case or I want a path to

175. Is there a path to 175?"

>> Um, then what you do is you are like Rachel said, it's an invitation. It's not an accusation. And that gives your

supervisor the opportunity to say dude I see how hard you work. There is like here's what's happening above me and you

are capped in as high as you could go or it gives him or her the opportunity to say well there's actually a leadership position opening up or this role is capped here but we've we've been thinking about you for another role. But it gives them an opportunity to talk through it and then I you are dead on right. I would not bring up I you have extra cost coming on your horizon that your boss needs to solve for you.

>> Um because that's man no boss wants to be put in that position. Um and so I think you need to ask yourself if like if they can't or if your boss says no,

what is your or what statement? Is your or what going to be? I actually like this job. I like making 125 base and >> but I may not be able to help my kids the way I thought I was going to be able to. So they're going to have to stay in.

They're going to have to Yeah. or I'm going to get on the market and try to go get one of these 150 $175,000 jobs.

>> Um, but asking them what is a path for

me here to 1501 175. Um, I think that's

a great way to open up that conversation.

>> So, actually don't say, you know, bring up because money doesn't typically come up in these reviews.

>> So, what would be the right phrase maybe to >> the It's starting with gratitude. The last few years I've made$125,000 with a

$4 to $8,000 thing is amazing. I'm

getting paid. I I I'm super grateful.

What is a path that I could move my salary to 150 or 175 here doing this job

that I'm doing or any other job in this in this company?

And that is that's a what I'm I want to

partner with you supervisor not a you

haven't been paying me fairly >> and I've caught you which puts them on the defensive.

>> Yeah. I don't actually feel that way but

>> but I am doing more than Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I think and I and I would be okay um because I do think depending on how your company structured and your relationship with your leader they may not even know what you're doing all the extra stuff. Do you know what I So, I think that's fair to be like, hey, listen, here's what I here's what's been on my plate and um I want to talk through this because I feel like I am adding a lot of value. So, I do want to figure out like how can I, you know, not just see that from a compensation standpoint, but also for the company.

I love adding value. I want to continue add value. What's my pathway to do more so I can make more?

>> saying what like I'm doing all here's my assignment and here's what I'm doing extra. Here's the other roles I'm taking on. Is there a path for me to 150 or 175

>> with all of this? >> With all this that I'm doing, is there a path here? And again, you want to you

want your supervisor, your leader to feel like you want to partner with him and continue to add value to the customers y'all are serving and to the company, not making it a you versus me.

You've been screwing me. I've been doing all this and and now I want this.

>> Um because in in a at the end of the

day, he's he or she's got hierarchy over you. They got power over you. And so entering into a fist fight with somebody that is ahead of you is a losing proposition. >> What's your position, Chris? What are you doing?

I'm a marketing manager. >> Marketing. Okay. I was going to say because sometimes those skills whether it's writers, marketers. I mean like sometimes the outside world, you know,

goes faster than a company is actually keeping up. >> And if you don't have a good, you know, compensation plan as a company, those

positions can outrun what you're paying.

And and this sounds so ignorant, but I think it's true. I think I think some leaders, depending on how big the business is, look up and they're like, "Oh my gosh, we haven't kept up with market value in two years, you know, and they may not even know like there could be a level of small ignorance. I don't know. Um I hope companies are run a little bit more efficient than that, but I think that is the case a lot.

Is it a small is it a small company or big company?" >> It's a big company. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, they may have they may have tears in place that they keep up with it.

But that's also always in the back of my mind, too, because I just know um those kind of positions, especially >> if they start to have a lot of value in the marketplace, they can outrun the average salary and a company doesn't even realize it. So, >> but keep your or what question, your or what statement, if you will, to yourself. If he says or she says no, absolutely not. You're paid fairly.

This is all this is going to top out. Are you going to then think to yourself, "Okay, I'm gonna get some side hustle work as a marketer or a social media marketer on the side to put my kids through college." Great.

Or, I'm actually going to go hit the market or I like this place. It's comfortable. I'm going to make some changes with my kids. You get to decide what you do next with that information. [music] But I always like the partnership question.

>> [music]

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Up next, we [music] have Carlos in Miami. Hi, Carlos. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me. Uh, quick question. I have uh since both of you have a PhD on the seven baby steps and I

only have barely a GED. I [laughter] want to ask you wanted to ask you a

quick question. Um for one split second

in 2020, my wife and I I'm 54, she's 52.

We make decent decent money. She makes about 170. I make about 115. We have three children. One of them is in college, two are in high school. And for one split sec second and around this time in 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic, we were on baby step seven.

>> We had everything. We had paid off the house. We did everything.

>> But now we're kind of like, okay,

obviously we have step one, we have step four. We invest probably 25% of our entire entire entire income into retirement. >> Hold on. Did you go back after you paid off everything? Did you go back and borrow some more money?

Oh yes. >> Oh no. Carlos Carlos, what did you do?

>> Backwards. We're supposed to go forwards. Like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.

>> You won. >> Yeah. We >> It's like you crossed the marathon finish line. You're like, you know what? I'm going to go back to the starting line and start again. >> What happened?

Well, we like I said, we were ready to start step seven and um you know, uh

things started opening up after COVID and we're like we would like to go here, we like to go there and we like to uh get this Mercedes and next thing you know, we're >> Oh, Carlos. Oh, no. You fell in Miami.

>> You went full Miami. >> You went full South Beach. Oh, >> yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> So, how bad is it? How much do you owe right now, brother?

Uh look, we have about uh $29,000 in

zero interest credit card debt with that we're we're we're trying to pay off. Um and then we have we have one lease of a

vehicle and the other vehicle is all the other vehicles are paid off. So we we decided to buy a car for each one of our kids and pay it off. So our daughter's car is paid off. Our second son's car is

about we only it's brand new car. We have about 17 grand. We're going to pay it off in exactly one year because we're sending three times the payments on a very low interest loan. Uh my car is paid off. Um so 29,000 in credit card

debt. Uh and >> 17,000 in a car loan and a car lease.

>> Wait, you you you said your wife makes what? 170 and you make what?

>> 115. >> 115. >> Oh, 15. I put 15. >> Okay. So you guys make about 300K. You said at the beginning of the call y'all do pretty well. Y'all are doing incredibly well. Okay. So, Carlos, okay.

Is that it? The credit cards, the lease car, and then the car payment. Is that it? >> That's it. >> Did you take out a second mortgage after the house was paid off? >> Oh. Oh, hell no.

>> Okay. All right. Good. Good. [laughter] >> At least we are on the same page there.

Okay. I just need everyone to hear this because this doesn't always happen. We get Carlo, we get people like Carlos every now and then that they do the baby steps and then they go backwards. So, I just want to know from you, Carlos, did you have more peace in 2020? financially

or today. >> Yeah. In 2020. But then the whole world opened up again and I was screwed.

>> Why were you there? >> You weren't screwed. You were >> You chose it. >> Yeah. You could have kept on going into >> well, you know, the whole world OPENED UP AND YOU KNOW, HEY, LISTEN, HOMIE.

[laughter] You You've got to take ownership of >> like it's like mom and dad went out of town and you're in high school and you're you didn't have to throw a huge kegger and you're like, I'm going to mom and dad listen out of town. What was I supposed to do? >> We had to do it. There was five kegs. We had to go get We had to fill them all up. And so listen, >> take ownership. You did it. But here's the thing, dude. 300 grand a year. You

can have this paid off like in three months if you'll just suck it up.

>> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. >> Why are you Why are you waiting a year?

>> Well, a year to pay off the car and >> pay off everything. >> No, Carlos, if you if you guys lived You don't have a house payment, okay? So, I know you have all the I know you have some car payments and stuff, but if you just lived on a hund,000, god forbid,

[laughter] >> you'll have $200,000 >> extra. And you put you put a quarter of your of your money away every month.

Stop for two months. >> Y'all have to be able to say no to yourself. Y'all's behavior has gotten completely out of control.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we like to travel.

That's our That's our key.

>> SO DO I. BUT [laughter] I SAY I CAN'T GO TO ITALY right now. Like I can't like you know what you mean?

>> No, I know it's different.

>> They look pretty on Google image like but I >> No, you see you're blaming you're blaming Miami. You're blaming the

>> number one international port of the of the world. >> Doesn't matter. Be a grownup, [laughter] bro. >> The the brand new Royal Caribbean ship is docking next month and I'm like, "Oh, we got to check that out." >> Oh my gosh, dude.

>> All right. >> You're giving me hemorrhoids, Carlos.

>> I don't know. I don't think you want I don't think you really want to be done for Carlos. I think you're I think you are fine with your life. That's how I feel. >> What do you do for a living?

>> No. Well, that's the other thing. I'm not getting paid right now cuz I'm a federal employee, but my wife is not.

But at least we have our check.

>> But here's the thing. We've noticed that we can't live off our check.

>> No [laughter] way. You mean y'all barely scratching claw on $170,000?

There's Tell me more, Carlos. Yeah, we have a live studio audience out here and they're all just sobbing for you.

They're devastated for you. >> I I told my wife last night, I go, you know, I'm going to call the show because we've proven one thing with this government shutdown with me not getting paid for a month. We can live off your check and then you use my check to pay off this stuff. [laughter] >> Good God. If y'all can scratch by here, hold on. You missed two humongous lessons, though. You missed the two bigger lessons, >> which is >> y'all make a bunch of money right now

>> and COVID happened >> and then y'all made a whole bunch more money and then >> the leaders of our government decided to sit in a sandbox and throw crayons at each other. >> And so what the the the thing you're missing here is >> there's always another there's always a day after the party, >> right? And in between those days after the party, you live like this is the last party that's going to happen, >> right?

you would have taken a whole bunch of vacations and gotten some nice cars. You wouldn't have bought your kids brand new ones that depreciated 20% the day they drove off the lot. But you would, your kids would be fine. You all be fine.

And you'd have 200 grand in cash in the bank. Oh, are you kidding me? >> Okay, I know this is you and listen, this government shutdown's going to happen. And then you're going to go, you're going to be like, "Dude, we can live off my check." And you're going to pay all this off in 3 months, which is all it's going to take or maybe two months for you guys.

And then you're going to that you're going to be like, "That boat's in the harbor." And you're going to go down there and you're going to start this whole thing over again. And then one of y'all's going to get like laid off or one of you is going to get the call that hey, go to the hospital cuz one of your kid like you're going to get those calls.

>> Yes, 100%. I think it's a lot easier to sell to my wife if we can say we can live off one of our checks and take the other one and it there's a layer beneath that and you're not you're not hearing me. The greatest thing you can give to your wife is to say, "Hey, for the first time in our marriage, I want to act like grown-ups." >> That's the hard thing for me, Carlos. I know we're joking around and having fun because listen, I love a great ch like it's fine.

like like the things you're saying, a nice car, a nice trip, those are not bad things. >> They're awesome things, >> but you're doing it out of order and you're doing it in a level of impulse and a little bit of just kind of of immaturity. >> Yeah. >> And so there's, you know, Dave always says that children do what feels good.

adults devise a plan and follow it. Like there's a level of growing up. And and to say this too, Carlos, you have two kids in the Do are your kids still in the house?

>> All three kids are still in the house. Yeah. the college one has a year left and the other one that's fine. Yeah.

Yeah. But I'm just saying like what are you setting for them? The example. I'd rather set an example of hey, we have a level of limits and boundaries because that's what money we have to with money.

Like that that is part of the name of the game. We can always make more and all of it. That's great. It's not a scarcity mindset mindset, but we have to live within our means because that creates a level of peace and stability.

So when I get, you know, furled and I'm and I don't get a paycheck, we're totally fine. And guess what? We can still go on the Royal Caribbean cuz we have no debt and we're able to save up and like we have a great income, but we're living with a level of reality and

and there's a little bit that you guys are just like, "Oh, that feels right. Let's just go and go go." And what scares me is you both sound like that, you and your wife. Usually there's like one boring [music] person in the marriage that doesn't want to spend or do anything. And then you have the partyier. But both of you, I mean, it that's what it's gonna take, Carlos, for you guys to buckle down and just say, "Hey, we are going to live on less than we make significantly.

>> You can live off half of her check, >> this lease, clean up the car and the credit cards, cut up the credit cards, [music] and we're going to live life differently." I don't know if you're going to do it, Carlos. I don't know. But >> I want peace for you. I just can't want it more than you want it for yourself.

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>> [music]

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If you are wondering [music] if you are on track with the baby steps, well, you can find out. You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just [music] for you.

Just head to the show notes if you are listening on YouTube or podcast and you

can click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. All right, let's go to Martha.

She is in Florida. Hi, Martha. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Yes. So, um

I uh am just wondering um if

you know if if I should file for bankruptcy or not. >> Oh, what's going on?

>> What's happening? >> So, um we've kind of overwhelmed ourselves, mine and my husband. Um and about 90% of the debt is mine.

>> Um and >> you know it, >> what does that mean? Tell me what that means. >> Um >> what's the debt? He, you know, we have about like including um his debt with

mine, we have about 20,000 in credit card debt. Um about 12,000 in personal

loans. Um I have about 15,000 in

collections. >> Um >> is that credit card collections or medical debt? >> That's that's medical. >> Medical. Okay.

Um they have I have about 15,000 in student loans. And I know that doesn't go away with bankruptcy, but um we have um 16,000 in car loans.

>> Okay. >> And um >> are those two separate cars, Martha?

>> No, it's just one >> one car. >> We have one car that's paid off. >> Okay. Wonderful. Okay, keep going.

>> Um and then we have our mortgage. And our mortgage is about probably 70% of our income >> per your payment. Your mortgage payment is taking 70%. Okay. Um, and for the

house, how much is the house worth?

>> Um, it's right about 285,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you have left on the mortgage of that?

>> 277,000.

>> Okay. So, it's basically a wash.

>> Um, yeah. My husband, we haven't we haven't we haven't lived here not even a year yet. >> Okay. And how much? We tried, >> we were talking about, you know, selling the house, but then we looked at our contract and since it was a USDA loan, we can't sell the house until we lived here a year. >> Yep. Yep. And when will a year hit? What month? >> Uh, December.

>> Okay. Coming up. >> You can put on the market right now and put a 30 or 60 day contingency. You can't afford a house if it's 70%.

>> Like, yeah, I absolutely 100% agree with you. And my husband is just like completely not interested in selling the house. um he wants to like get rid of

all of our other debt and then keep the house. >> Okay, so those are two separate conversations. Yes, we need to get rid of the debt regardless of the house payment. But if your house payment

for sure is more than 50% of your income, but we even say 25% of your

income. So no, you have too much house.

So your husband needs to understand the math of you can't live your life with 30% of your income.

>> Like that's what it ends up being. So yeah, no, you guys have too much house. you bought too much house. Um, how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, we make I currently, you know, do Door Dash and Uber, you know, cuz I I am a full-time student. Um, and but I am also um starting a job in January.

>> Okay. But >> how much will you be making a year in the job in January? >> I It really depends. Um, it's a tipped worker's wage. Um, so it really just depends. Um, I worked there, you know, a few years ago and I was making uh around 30,000 a year. >> Okay. Okay. And how much does your husband make? >> Uh he makes 56,000 and he works two jobs. >> What? What? Hold on. You're going to school. What are you studying?

>> Um I'm going for social work.

>> And so you're going to get a degree that you've paid a bunch of money for, but you're going to go back and make the same exact money you made two years ago without that degree.

>> Uh no, I just um I I don't have my degree yet, so I'm still going to school for it. Um >> I know, but when you get this job in May. >> Oh, okay. So, you're taking another job in January that's going to hold you over until >> May to make it.

Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. And then when you graduate in May, Martha, and you start a position, what on average do you think you'll probably make if you are using your degree and you're in it for social work?

state is about 50,000. Yeah.

>> A year. >> Okay. Mhm.

Okay. Um Well, you're not bankrupt. You guys have a massive mess on your hands that do not file bankruptcy though. >> Yeah. No. Is gonna it's going to take um

some significant sacrifice of time and energy for you guys to clean this up. So it is very doable. Um and so what I want to start

with is there's a couple of of highlight if the car do you know if you Kelly Blue Book the $16,000 car how much you could sell it for? >> I have. Um Kelly Blue Book says it's about $3,000. It's $3,000.

>> Yeah. >> When did you Did you guys roll over bad equity from another car into this loan?

>> I did not. I bought it out I, you know, bought it, you know, I had a clean slate when I bought the car um about 3 years ago. Um, >> for how much? How much did you buy it for? >> Um, I got it for about 18,000. My

interest rate is pretty high. >> What is it? >> I think it's about 18%.

>> Did you buy it at one of those corner

markets?

No, I bought it through CarMax.

>> Yeah. Okay. Martha, did you when you looked on Kelly, did you look at kellybluebook.com?

>> Uh, yes. >> And did you do dealer trade in or did you do like an individual selling to an individual? >> I did individual.

>> There's no way it's >> I just don't think it's $3,000. What What kind of car is it?

It's a 2013 Nissan Pathfinder, but it

has a lot of miles on it because when I

bought it, it had about 80,000 and then in three years we've gotten it up to 150. My husband, you know, he works out of town and he also um >> I just don't think it's $3,000 part time. >> Yeah. I don't know. Okay. Well, I would do some homework digging there because if you can do um gosh, if you could sell

it for even I don't know 8 9 I mean I don't know. It may be a wash. she may be stuck with it. Um the medical the collections um from the medical debt.

Have you contacted them at all?

>> Um I did contact them to get you know how much I owe like everything I owe. Um

but I haven't set up like any payment plans with them yet. >> Okay. >> Um but you know it's almost to the point where you know they're they are contacting me either you know. >> Yeah. Bad. Yeah. Most bad debt, >> credit card debt for sure, and sometimes medical debt. You can actually talk them down significantly. Sometimes pennies on the dollar depending on what it is. What's it through? Is it a collections agency that has it right now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, yeah, I would tell them like, hey, I have no money. I cannot pay this,

you know, $15,000. And they may settle it with you, Martha, for 5,000. I mean, I don't know. >> Usually, you have to have cash.

>> Yeah, [clears throat] you would. You would. But I'm just saying like you want to be able to get to a position where that is at least the one debt that and the car were the ones I was trying to kind of finagle for you to see what we could figure out to to get out of this.

But usually debts and collections you're able to negotiate. So remember that. So that 15,000 hopefully can get

significantly down and if you actually get them to a place where they will take that payment and you've negotiated, get it in writing. But that's what I would do. So, I would just start honestly, Martha, with the baby steps. And you guys, I mean, your income isn't, you know, terrible.

I mean, if you're making 30 starting in January, 86,000, but the house is a painoint. You You have what John said, put it on the market. You have to like there's no way you guys can afford this house. >> And Martha, I've done this.

It was overwhelming and it was a hard conversation. My wife

cried when I said we have to sell this house. I moved us into a residence hall apartment. I mean, it was it was I was and I was the associate dean of the university and I was I was embarrassed for myself. >> But that's what we had to do because we had a math problem >> and underneath your math problem, you have a relationship issue which is you you you need to be able to tell your husband, I'm not safe here.

I don't feel good. I don't feel safe in this house. We owe too much money. I'm getting buried by this thing.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, getting getting the house sold, which I know is a feat, that's going to be, you know, hopefully I think we're seeing on average it's about 60 days on the market. But, I mean, I'm praying for you guys by February.

Hopefully, you have an offer on the house. you have a new job and you're like you guys are starting this process and then and then Martha I would just start working my way down the debt snowball and I would be paying off the personal loan uh the student loans and then going to the to [music] the car and then to the credit cards but don't be digging yourself into a hole while trying to get out. So [music] you guys need to stop the debt. You got to you got to cut up the credit cards.

You got to be done.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show [music] in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

We are taking your calls at88255225.

Up next we have Christopher on the line and Christopher is in Florida. Hi Christopher, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> My question [clears throat] is I have $10,000 worth of credit card debt. I'm wondering if I should use uh money from an old retirement account, a 403b, to

pay off that credit card debt.

>> No. >> No. >> What have you done with that 403b, the old one? Have you rolled it into another fund or an IRA or is it still there with your old company?

>> It's still there with my old company and I just moved in July, so I'm I'm settling into the new company right now.

>> Gotcha. Um, but if I can explain, a year ago I was at $32,000 of credit card debt. >> Nice. >> And I paid it all off. I paid Yeah. I paid it all off before I moved in July.

>> Okay. >> Um, it it basically came on because I had a car uh um repairs that I needed to

make. $12,000 of disaster anyway. Okay.

>> But then I paid it all off. I took a second job. I paid it all off. I moved to Florida. And then I had $10,000 in

repairs for my house.

>> Okay. >> And I had to put that back on the credit card. >> Okay. >> Because I didn't have a savings s I didn't have a savings yet because I had just paid it off. >> Yeah. >> So I'm I I I'm sick and tired of being

sick and tired and I look at my credit card. >> Totally. Totally. How much money do you make a year? >> I uh I'm at 100 grand in salary.

>> Okay, perfect. >> Okay. Can I challenge you on one thing, Chris, and this is going to be key to you getting through this.

Um, I want you to say the words, not I

had to do this stuff with this house. I

want you to use the words I chose to, cuz that >> No, I I had to. It was repairs, uh,

damage to I could not do anything with the house, rent it out, sell it, or anything unless I made this repair.

>> Right. But to but to John's point, you could have you could have paused, taken on a second job, saved up 10,000 over two to three months, and then gone back and done the repair. >> See what I'm saying? Like it's it's just >> I mean, >> you could have though, like that like Yeah. But just in the moment because it was it was sewage backing up. I was in a desperate situation.

>> I needed to get this. >> Totally get that. But the the the key to

I I think the the you and I both we both

and Rachel, we live in a culture that says everybody else has to come rescue us and everybody else is the cause of our challenges. And I want us just to sit in the driver's seat of our own lives and say, "I had an emergency. I didn't have any money. I chose to deal with this

right away. I had sewage backing up in my house." And when they dug in, it was a wild, wildly bigger deal than I thought. And I went and borrowed $10,000. Just shift. It's not about blame. It's not about being a vict. It's none of that. It's just about you saying, "I did these things instead of these things happened to me and so I had to go." It's just that tiny little shift because then you're in the driver's seat of your own life about what you're going to do next. and 80year-old you like,

would you go borrow $10,000 at 30% 35%

to pay off this credit card?

>> No, I wouldn't. >> Okay. So, if you cash out this 403b, you're borrowing that money at 20% taxes or 30% taxes plus the penalty, you're borrowing that money at 30 something%.

>> Okay? Because so in my mind I was thinking that money is making me 10% return every year and the credit card is

at 15%. So I you're you're actually

flipping it on me which I'm grateful for because I was thinking I'd be saving 5%

of you'll be borrowing it. You'll be pulling that money. How much is in that 43B account?

>> It's 42,000.

>> Okay. So you'll probably get what? 30.

>> No, you wouldn't get that much. You get 25 28

>> probably. Yes. Yep. >> And so just do the math on how long it would take you to earn that back.

>> Yeah. >> In the in the account. Yep.

>> Yeah. So what I would do, I would meet with um one of our smart investor pros in your area and figure out a way to take get that 403b out because not keeping retirement. This is true for a 401k. When you leave a job, you want to just roll it over to an IRA. Um so that you have full control and it's out it's out of the company that you used to be at. So, I want you to roll that over it, but to John's point, not touching it.

It's not worth the taxes and the penalties, and then and then getting yourself in a position where you not only pay off this credit card debt, but then you bump up that to that emergency fund as soon as possible. And that urgency is what causes the second job.

The urgency is what cuts the lifestyle and all of it. And you know, not to belabor this point, Christopher, but it's just a good example just to say out loud again is um we get so many calls on

this show with exactly what you were saying at the beginning of like I had to do this. And what we force people to do

and again it's either well my car broke down, I had to go get a car payment because I have to have a car or I was going to college there's I didn't have any money saved so I had to take out a student loan. You know what whatever the cause is that causes us to go into debt.

>> We hear one line of thinking meaning that there's no options. And when you feel like you there's only one singular option, this is the only thing I can do.

Debt is going to be the route that's just right there and available. And so what we want to push people to, not just you, Christopher, but people listening is when you get backed in a corner of a situation and thinking this is the only way I can do this. The only way is with debt. That's it. That's the only way.

I'm going to push you for options A, B,

C, and D because there's always other options. But when you feel like there's only one option, we usually don't make a great financial decision. And can we can I just call this out, Chris? This is the worst. You busted it for a year to pay off 30 grand.

Like, and you got to be tired, right?

[laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. You're so frustrated.

>> And I mean, I I I was working in a in a

ministry job and then took a job waiting

tables at night.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Which which by the way, >> you shouldn't have to do that. You're serving people all day long and to pay your bills, you got to go to another job. That stinks, man. Like, we'll sit here with you on that. >> Well, the the good thing is two good

things is this change in job really

boosted my income. >> Excellent. >> Uh it made me move across the country and then I do have a renter that's coming into the uh into the house the

first of the month and it's actually one of those situations where I feel like I'm also helping her out to get on her feet. >> Cool. And so I know that everything is working out, but it's, you know, looking at the options of do I go and find another serving job? Yes.

Do I go and drive for ride share >> for three months or a couple more? It's going to be miserable. And then just make a plan right now. We're talking to you right before Halloween weekend.

Make a plan that February 1, you owe nobody anything ever again. >> Yeah.

>> I'm single. >> Okay. And and the job boosted my income.

>> I'm so glad. So every Have you done a written budget? Much more. >> Okay. Have you done a budget? Yep. Okay.

How much? And I have >> Wonderful. How much? >> And I did I mean I changed my lifestyle to you know I shop at Aldi. I don't go out to eat. You're so much extra do you

have per month with just your normal job. Just the new one.

>> Uh 2,800. >> 2,800. Okay. So, that's what's crazy about the math is I'm like, "Oh my gosh, you know, if you go and you make an extra, let's just say um 2,200 a month,

you know, you're at the you're at 5,000. You'll have this paid off in 2 months.

So, and which is the holidays, which sucks, but maybe you get better tips because November, December, and then

like what John's saying, and then keep doing it for two more months. Rack up another 10 grand to set aside for your for your emergency fund. And then you can actually start saying, "Okay, now I feel good. >> 4 months for the rest of your life. >> I I go back to my normal job, but I'm going to keep my income limited to get that 3 months." Yeah. [music] Back on.

And then you just pick back up. But yes, within 5 months, Christopher, your life could look different.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> One of the best ways to spread the word about this show, to be able to help your friends and family [music] and other people even around the world, is just sharing it. Whether it's on your social, maybe you subscribe, you comment, whatever you can do um to help spread the word, that is so so helpful. And even on some platforms even like YouTube, if you are commenting or subscribing, it helps the algorithm to get the show in front of more people.

And so you are our best way to spread the word honestly. So we are so grateful for you all that listen and watch. Um and we're praying that this show helps you. It's why we do it every single day.

Hoping to give somewhat good advice, right, John? Somewhat. And >> and to be able to help uh when it comes to your life and your relationships, your career. And so just um continue to help us do that by liking, subscribing, and sharing the show. We appreciate you.

All right, let's go to Kristen in Arkansas. Hi Kristen, welcome to the show. >> Hey, how are y'all? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so me and [clears throat] my husband have been working really hard um to get some of our debt paid off. we, you know, work a bunch of side jobs and I'm just trying to figure out what the best way it is to deal with our friends if they like they get upset if we're busy or if we don't say we're not going to spend the money to go on a weekend trip or something like that. Um cuz we're we're too busy, you know, working to try and get out of debt. >> Yeah.

And what when you say that they're upset, what does that mean? That they miss you guys and they're like, "Oh man, we hate that you can't come." Or is it like, "Come on, y'all. Y'all are being crazy?" >> It a little bit of both, probably. Um, it's kind of like, you know, one of our friends has said like, "Hey, I'm just trying to figure out I'll have free time again so that we can hang out." And it's like, they get it, but they're also like this, they're quality time people, and so they just want to also just spend time with us.

>> Um, I'm 30 and my husband is 27.

>> Okay, so this is going to be the question, the answer to the question beneath your question, and that is this.

You're at an age, and it stinks. It's the worst when the friendships that served you really well in your 20s start

to thin out and really change.

>> Yeah. >> And it comes somebody's going to have a baby and you're going to find out they're like a weird little league parent or someone's going to get like a doodle and call themsel a pet parent or

you're going to get like you're going to be the weird cult people that like start paying off your debts. This is like when you just start the values you have begin to emerge in a weird new way and the people that were by your side in your 20s. There might be 10 of them. You'll suddenly look up in 30 at 35 and there'll be two. And it just stinks.

It's just hard because here's the deal.

I had buddies when me and my wife started doing this and they a of course

they made fun of me. That's what friends do. But they also were my chief supporters in whatever weird thing me and my wife wanted to do. You know what I mean? And so if you find friends that are getting

on to you because you want to have peace in your life and have freedom in your life and they want to make your journey about them, then they may not be your

friends down the road. Or if you just have some buddies that are like, "Dude, we miss you. Can we come hang out?" >> Here's what my buddies did. They would grab whatever was in their fridge and we'd come over once a week and we would just hang out at my house and have dinner. We wouldn't didn't go out. They someone bring over a half bottle of wine they had left a halfeaten casserole.

We'd make tacos and it cost no money but it was just a way for us to all hang out because for a season me and my wife couldn't go on vacations and we couldn't do weekend stuff or we'd go camping. We did do some camping together because it was so inexpensive. But it's just about being honest about your values and

maybe it's it's it's saying with their

actions like we're not we might not be friends long term. >> Yeah. And Kristen, this isn't forever either. I mean, how much longer do you guys have?

>> Oh gosh. Um, probably a couple years.

>> Okay. How How much debt do you guys have? >> Let's see. We have Do you want mortgage

or just non mortgage? >> No, non mortgage. >> Um 162,000 non-mortgage.

>> Okay. Is that student loans? What is that? >> That is credit cards, some medical debt, student loans. Um, we have a rental property and a a land loan.

>> Okay. How much do you guys make a year?

>> Um, our takehome is every month is 4,900.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, when you guys map this out, what what's it what are you what are you finding from a timeline perspective?

>> So, we're even working like side jobs and we probably bring home an extra like3 to $4,000 a month doing that.

And so, um, >> y'all are going to have to sell some stuff. I'm guessing >> what's the what's the rental property?

How much is that? It's 40,000. Um, it

has probably about 5,000. It's been in remodel and it's probably got about $5,000 left to finish it. And then we're

either going >> You're going to sell it. Okay. How much could you sell it for? >> Well, we're either going to rent it out.

>> No, you need to sell it. Y'all can't afford it. >> Yeah. You're not You're not in a place to be landlord.

>> Yeah. You don't need to be a landlord. So, how much once you when once it's finished, how much could you sell it for? >> Probably 70 [clears throat] 80,000 maybe.

>> Done >> is the hope. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So, no, I would I would get rid of that.

Um, >> what about what about this land loan? Do are y'all living on this land or did y'all just buy your dream property?

>> Pretty much bought our dream property. We want to build on it eventually. How much is How much is that?

>> It is 75,000. It's a 15-year loan.

>> Okay. Yeah, y'all need to Yeah, y'all need to unload some of this stuff.

>> Um, >> yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> if you sold 75,000 and then you sold 40,000, >> that's at what 110 plus you got another 40 from your from the equity in the home that you just fixed up.

>> Yeah. I mean >> I mean Yeah, >> you're free. >> I hope Yeah. We're hoping to have all all of our cards paid off at the beginning of the year and then uh put start putting the extra to the rental house to get it finished and either, you know, to get it sold um and give us a lot more breathing room.

>> Yeah. >> And my husband's also supposed to get an increase in pay. Um >> that's great.

>> Y'all just done a couple of things out of order. The things y'all have done are not necessarily bad. You know, buying a rental property, buying a piece of land that's just out of order. You guys have student loans, you got medical debt.

uh you're having to work extra jobs to keep all of this. It's not worth it. It's not worth it because you can do all of that again, Chris. And that's the other thing.

Think about in 10 years when you're 40. 40, you're still young and fun and great and you can do those kind of things. You know what I'm saying? Like it's not like it's a now or never thing.

being 30, >> just get some margin financially. And

that's what I would be chasing as John always has. Um, what do you say? It's something about solving for peace.

>> I And listen, I want lands. Yeah, it my quote made such a difference in Rachel's [laughter] life she couldn't even remember it. But I'm always solving for peace. Here's the thing. I want land so bad. So bad. Like not healthy bad. And I

can't afford it right now. And we're saving like bananas for it. But like I

don't have the money for it right now. And what I don't want to do is mortgage my anxiety. I don't want to mortgage my

stress in my house. I don't want to mortgage my time away.

>> I want to just exhale and say, "I really want this thing and I got a target for how much I want to save up and I'm just going to keep doing that till I got it." >> And sometimes, like for you, it's a side hustle. For me, it's an extra speaking gig on the road or it's me taking some more, whatever. But like I we're in the same boat. I really want this.

I just I don't I can afford it right this second. And that's okay. It's totally okay.

>> That's what I'm trying to figure out. Yes. >> Y'all are free. Y'all are free. If you sell this land and sell this house and you pay off these cars, y'all y'all are free. >> Cuz your credit card debt is what? Four 5,000. >> 60. It's six. It's 16,500.

>> 16,000. Okay. How much is How much is the medical debt?

>> Like, 1500. It's not much.

>> Okay. So, that Yeah, that can be cleaned up. Yeah. You guys, technically, if you think about it, once this house sells and the land sells, you guys have $16,000 of credit card debt to clean up.

And then you could do that, golly, in, you know, 6 months or something. If you >> No, you're making extra 4,000 bucks a month. You can do it in four months, three months. >> Well, that's that's the goal is like we're with how much extra we're making with our side of jobs.

The goal is I know February. >> That was okay. Let me just I do want to just because I love you. So, I'm like I it was not your goal because you guys were like, "Well, we may rent it out." Oh, no.

my husband they're you know we bought our land like these weren't options at the beginning of the call but John and I just freed you guys freed you up. >> Yeah.

many years and it's not worth it. It's not worth it. >> You're going to wind up pregnant. One of y'all's going to wind up needing to go back to the hospital. One of your parents is going to get like it's just life is going to happen to you. >> Yes. So again these things are not bad.

>> They're I want you to have land. I really do. I just want it to be yours, not [music] >> banks. Exactly.

So, get an emergency fund in place. You guys start investing after you pay this off. Then start saving some money on the side. [music] And yeah, and find some land and I mean it may be five or six years, but that's okay.

Great. >> That's okay. But just do it slowly and with cash, Kristen. So, [music] I know you called about your friends, but we're your friends, too.

[music]

>> [music]

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>> All right. My husband and I are 45 and

43 years old. We've been married for 1 year and following your suggestions, we combined our money together. This was uncomfortable at first because both of us had financial trauma in our previous relationships. Good for you guys. Not for having trauma, but for feeling that and then going do the next right thing.

It's amazing. However, we trust each other and it's been great. We feel closer together because we are making shared decisions around money. Awesome.

We make around $250,000 a year combined and we have over a million dollars in assets. Amazing. We own previous homes which we are using as rental properties and we have opened an investment account together. Our question is we're both recovering from alcoholism, seven years sober for me and eight for him and we're both still active in AA. Should we do anything to protect ourselves if the other person relapses? M >> um it sounds like y'all are doing those

things right now, which are we're talking about hard things. We're putting past traumas on the table and we're acknowledging them and then we're choosing to go do the next right thing.

Y'all are staying in AA, which means you have sponsors. You've got people that are walking in life with you. It sounds like y'all are doing those things. And so if you were sitting, if this couple was sitting with me, Rachel, if Lindsay was sitting with me and her husband, I would ask, >> usually this question comes up when something's starting to feel wobbly.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'd want to know what's the basis behind this question. But as far as two

people who have traumat trauma in your past, who have struggled with substance abuse in the past, y'all are doing all of them right things. And I'm man, I'm like I would hug both of them if they were sitting here. I'm proud of them. >> Incredible. Um, and so I guess the next question I would ask is what are you trying to do to protect yourselves? Um, the only other thing I could think of is if you have somebody that meets with

y'all every year that goes over your finances with you that would serve like a a buddy or a a financial adviser.

Starting to get some professionals in your corner because now y'all are stacking up some serious money. And anytime somebody's been in

um recovery or someone's in recovery and you start getting this kind of money, I always want like make sure you get somebody else that's walking alongside you just because it gives you so much more resources to go get yourself in trouble again. But sounds like these guys are doing awesome. >> Yeah, because I there was a book I read and they talked about this how in recovery specifically if you get too comfortable you start to feel like we're good and money can do that. So to your point, you start to stack up a level of financial wallpapers over >> comfort and you're like, "Oh, we're good." Like, I feel safe and good.

And then you stop doing the things that got you >> that's it >> to be in recovery. So, yeah. >> But the fact that they're still in AA um this would have been my first recommendation if y'all said we're we've been sober for seven or eight years, I would say go back start going back to meetings, right? And go together.

Go together and maybe share a sponsor or what like whatever. I don't think you can share sponsors, but um Lindsay, I'm I'm I'm blown away. I'm blown away by y'all the work y'all are doing. >> So great.

So great. >> Good for you. All right, let's go to Justin in North Carolina.

>> Hey, how are y'all doing today? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, long story short, I'm on baby step

three. I think I'm about to hop right into baby step four. >> Congratulations. >> Good.

So, what I'm wanting to know is how aggressive should I be on paying off my mortgage versus investment towards retirement at this moment?

>> Oh, you hate that house payment now, don't you?

>> I do. [laughter] >> How big is it? How much do you owe?

>> Well, right now I owe around 210.

>> Okay. >> How much do you make a year?

>> Okay. And so I do have a salary and I also make VA disability. So right right

around there I'm around 90,000.

>> Okay. >> Perfect. Are you married, Justin?

>> I'm married. >> You are. Okay. Does your wife work?

>> Right now I've been able to drop her down to about two days a week to stay with the little one. >> Yeah. Great. Yeah. How many kids do you guys have?

>> Just one. One little girl.

>> Oh, sweet. Okay. Well, we always say when you're moving past baby step three, you're going from one to three, which is intense. I mean, you are full on I mean, it is sacrifice going, going, going.

And then baby steps four, five, and six, we move into intentionality, meaning you want to fund 15% of your income into retirement. So, you guys start, you know, open up, you know, two Roth IAS if you haven't already, if your um if your work offers a 401k. So, start some of that investing 15% of the income and then I would open up a 529 for the little one and put some money in. You don't have to be too aggressive with that right now.

Um, because I know you guys want, you know, you're you're filling those house payment. So, baby step six is the house payment.

pay this off as quickly as you are. Is that you agree?

Well, actually, I tal I had this thought to her about a week ago, and I think she's on board. >> Okay. Well, if she's on board, that's great. I mean, you guys are both adults, so you can make a decision to say, "Yes, we're going to throw everything else at the house, and we're still going to just go go." We just don't want you to burn out because when you pay off your mortgage, that is a that's a long game.

Most consumer debt can be paid off two two to three years where the mortgage on average is anywhere from 8 to nine years. So, it's just a longer game. And we want you to be able to enjoy your life during that too, right? You've worked hard. You you are not being irresponsible by, you know, upgrading a

car if you need to, going on a trip. So, I do want you guys to enjoy this life.

But again, you both together, if you

both agree, hey, we're still going to buckle down and throw this at the house, you can. I mean, George Camel did that.

John, if like you were that >> I would say if it's if it's gonna go beyond two years, like if if it's beyond

possible, um how old your your baby girl?

>> She'll be two in December. >> Okay. Here's what I would hate. I would hate for you to wake up and she's seven and you've worked seven days a week >> and you missed some of the magic moments.

You missed all the magic moments, >> right? And if you told me, hey, between my salary and my wife's salary, we could have this house if we just sucked it up for 24 more months and we could just blow through this thing or 18 months. I would say in my house, that's what we did.

>> Yeah. Go full steam ahead. It's going to take five years. I would tell you, man, slow down. You've done an amazing job.

>> Y >> amazing job. and enjoy a little bit of your life a little bit and still and be a little be double up on your payments or pay an extra two a year or an extra three a year and shave off big chunks of that mortgage, but um man, there's something about >> enjoying life. >> Yeah, dad spend there on Saturday mornings when they can at soccer games.

>> It's one thing when it's freaking credit cards and car loans and all of this, you know, but your mortgage like it's it's your home. Um, and so the and it's obviously a much larger debt usually.

And so it is going to take that time. So I would say just be realistic about where you guys are cuz how much consumer debt did y'all pay off in Baby Step 2.

>> Oh Lord, y'all would have yelled at me about a about a year. >> No, we wouldn't. >> No, [laughter] dude. I promise it's not worth worse than most of us.

>> You you you would have yelled at me in a good way. >> What is it? Oh, >> how much you pay off?

>> So I pretty much lived it up in my 20s.

I I turned 30 this year. I've had boats,

campers, trucks, you name it.

>> Excellent. >> And it just got to the point It just got to the point where >> it was Yeah.

>> How much did How much did you pay off? >> I realize I

>> I'd say about 70 grand.

>> That's amazing. I'm proud of >> you. That's incredible, Justin. Proud of you.

Yeah. So, my point is is that you guys have already done an incredible feat of paying off $70,000 of consumer debt. You have your baby your baby step three. you have a fully funded emergency fund.

Like what you guys are doing is incredible beyond what the average American is doing. So if you are if you've done those things, check that off. Be proud of yourselves. Be funding some retirement on the side.

Be thinking about college and then throw some extra at the house. That's great. But again, like John said, please don't go and work 80 hours a week just to get this thing paid off. Um just slow down, be intentional.

I want you guys to have a plan. And you could have more of an aggressive plan. Um, and even the mortgage calculator, if you go to ramseyolutions.com, plugging in some of those numbers, I'm like, you can see how quickly this can get paid off. Um, by just throwing a few extra payments uh, a year.

Like, it's crazy how quickly it fast forwards the process. So, do some math around it.

Celebrate. >> I want to celebrate you, brother. You did you've done well. >> Well done.

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The allnew Every Dollar is here and it is way more than just the incredible budgeting app that it was. It is still a budgeting app, but now it has so many more advanced features to help you make progress with your money. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So, Every Dollar Now, you guys, I mean, it's looking over your entire financial picture.

There's recommendations, there's coaching involved. I mean, there's so much now in this app to help you with your money journey. So, get started today for free, and you can download it in the App Store or Google Play. Up next we have Isabelle in Illinois.

Isabelle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You're so welcome. How can we help today? >> So I was my question is how do I um how

do I find a margin within my very small

income with about six $7,000 in debt?

which I know may not sound like a lot, but again, it's more so my very low income. >> Sure. Yeah. How much are you making a year? >> Uh, I'm making about 27 to $30,000 a

year. >> Okay. And what are you doing?

>> Um, I work for a small company. Um,

roughly paycheck-wise, I get about $2,66

a month. Um, and again, it's just kind

of paying down my debts to get to where I want to be financially, uh, as well as securing a home down the line. Yes. >> And everything of that sort. >> So, Isabelle, what are you said? You're working for a small company. What are you doing? Are you doing sales admin?

What's the >> uh, basically a receptionist for a

countertop company? Okay.

>> Which does Okay. But again, it's not >> sure >> not corporate money.

>> No, for sure. Um, do you are you married? Do you have kids?

>> I do. I I'm not married, but I do have a

partner. Okay. >> Um, so no kids, though.

>> That's >> Yes, kids. I have a toddler and one on the way. >> Okay. Oh, congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> Um, and toddler goes to daycare. What What does toddler do during the day?

Okay. >> So, that's probably a chunk, too. How much are you paying in that?

>> I'm paying roughly $800 a month for

care. Okay. And how much is your rent?

>> Um, that's another issue. Um, our rent

went up significantly uh last year uh going into this year.

So, we ended up I could not budget my my

income to the rent. Rent was about $1,900 a month for a onebedroom.

>> Um, and I did not find that feasible with my income plus my partner's income.

So, we ended up moving in with my parents to kind of lower all of our costs down. >> Okay. >> Um, so that's where it's at now. I do pay bills in within my my parents'

household, which roughly around with my bills roughly sums up to $800 a month in

bills. >> And is the partner paying as well?

>> Uh, not at the moment. Uh so what really

took a toll on us financially uh regarding rent and uh how why we had

to move in was because he has his own business. Unfortunately with the business he's a mechanic slash I'm

really not sure but more of a performance. He fixes engines, motors, transmissions, all of that stuff.

>> Is he making any money Isabella?

>> Uh no. So, what had happened was >> No, hold on, hold on. Let me stop.

>> Yeah. >> Like, >> what you need right now, like what happened is important, but not right this second. >> And so, let me let me say it like this.

>> You y'all two were in a boat

and the boat hit something. Something broke, an old weld popped loose, somebody shot a hole in it. Right now, y'all are drowning >> and you're the only one with a bucket. >> And it doesn't matter what happened to that boat. What matters is y'all need to swim to shore.

Okay? So, he had a business. Whatever

happened didn't have doesn't matter.

He's got to get up today and go knock on

doors. And every single mechanic shop I walk by has a sign outside that says, "We're looking for ASS asse certified mechanics." Everybody. Every single shop's looking for mechanics. He's got to go get a job. Two jobs.

>> He's pushing. Yes, he does do that. He has a part-time job right now, but most of that income is going to repay all of

the loans that he got for the business itself because we don't want to bring that into if we ended up buying

purchasing a home, getting married, all of that stuff. What happened with his business really did put a lot of

financial burden on us.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> What how much does he owe?

His business owes roughly $8,000 $9,000

from what we've been able to pay down.

Um, that completely drained our savings.

>> Okay. So, but he only owes $9,000. Is

that right, Isabelle? >> Right. >> Okay. That's not a ton of money. He can earn that. >> He can go drive Uber Eats and make Yeah.

two to three,000. Do you understand?

>> He could have this cleaned up. So you have a if I were you and I don't want to paint this picture but Isabelle like this is if I had a toddler one on the way and the guy I'm doing life with um

had a major financial thing that wiped out you said our savings so I don't know if you put money towards it there is there's a lot of >> of um there's zero security there's not

a lot of safety in all of this and so a part of me >> you guys have co-mingled so much with kids living together and all of it and Um, Isabelle, just for you and just to make this as clean as possible, I would be separating everything and he needs to go and do Door Dash and be a M at night and be a mechanic during the day to John's point. Um, and I know that the business that whole thing, I'm sure his self-esteem, I'm sure everything is just terrible. Like I I bet he does feel a lot of guilt, shame.

Who knows?

he has. Do you know what I'm saying? and a and a right >> girlfriend, a fiance, whatever it is.

So, he needs to go do all of that. You

then Isabelle, yeah, I would be for your sake in your debt. Um, it's not a lot either. I know it probably feels very overwhelming like what you're saying with your salary. I'm thankful that you have a place to land when you have family in town that's such a gift being um, you know, having two kids and you're doing this. So, I would be looking, Isabelle, at from a salary perspective to up your salary cuz um man, I mean,

you're you're at the cusp with with two kids on poverty level. So, I would be I would be looking for something like, you know, 36,000 um you know, something that you can do that's going to be bringing in more money. And ideally, it's a primary income position. And so I would be thinking through family, friends, people that you know, um anything that you can start to do to um yeah, open some doors.

I'll send you Ken's book, Find the Work That You're Wired to Do because he has a great assessment in there. And so Jenna will pick up, we'll send that copy to you. >> And and I want you to really start dreaming and thinking through Isabelle like what do I want my life to look like? Not just in the next >> nine months, but what do I want it to look like in the next nine years? You know, what do I want to do with my life?

And and I'm hoping together, I mean, I pray that you guys get married and you guys, you know, flourish and do all the

things um because you guys have built a life together, but my hope is that you're in a position where you feel good about that. >> Yeah. He you're not going to feel good until he starts acting like somebody you can anchor into, >> right? >> And and here's what this looks like.

He's Is this his baby on the way?

>> Yes. Both of them are his. Yes. Then

this is what this looks like right now.

He got knocked down. His business fell out from under him. He wasn't good at it. Whatever. It doesn't matter. It looks like him waking up at 4 a.m. every day and Ubering people to and from the airport until he starts work at 8:00 and

he is a mechanic from 8:00 to 5:00. And then he gets off and he has dinner with you and the young one and then he goes back out into the world and does Door Dash until midnight.

>> This This is all of human history. Men have had to go work like crazy to provide for their family. And $9,000, he

can have that cleaned up in no time. But

he's got to say, "My two kids and my

future wife are worth it.

>> One year, two years of just working

myself until I I I weigh nothing. I I'm

costing myself sleep. All that." He has a major priority. And like Rachel said, man, you also have to begin to visualize a world where he doesn't do that, which means you're going to have to go earn some more money and you're going have to put yourself out on the market, which is going to feel weird. You got a baby coming. It's going to be hard. People are going to judge you. All that. Who cares? None of that matters. Um, you have a real math problem, but underneath that, you have a security problem.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show [music] in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

I'm Rachel Cruz with John Deloney and we're answering your questions. So you can give us a call at88255225.

Up next in Wisconsin we have Olivia. Hi

Olivia, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

So my question is, what is the best way

to manage or organize a single 529 plan

that would cover multiple children?

>> Yes. Okay. Was this being was this passed down to you or how did you receive it?

>> Yeah. Um it was the 529 plan that my

parents set up for me and then I didn't use all of it. So they just said that it

is they're using it towards grandkids when they're ready. Nice. Okay. Very cool. Question. Do you remember how much you had left in it when you finished college? Like, I don't need that. And how much it is today?

>> Uh, today it's about $100,000

and the kids are 15 months and the next

one's due in January.

>> Oh, well, congratulations. How long have you been out of school?

>> About five years. >> Five years. Okay. How much was left in that 529? I guess it's only had five years of growth. So probably How much was that?

>> Uh I I don't know exactly how much Yeah.

was when I >> Yeah. use the rest of it.

>> Well, yeah. Well, that's one of the great benefits of the 529 is it can be passed down through family for educational funds. So what I would probably do, Olivia, is get hooked up with one of our Smart Veester pros in your area. And you can't open a 529

until second baby is born. So I I probably would just wait. So you can do it all in one meeting so you don't have to go back and do two meetings. Um but yeah, you can go and set two up under your um both girls names and then that Smart Vster Pro will be able to help you bring the funds down from your name and you can yep disperse it within family members. So they'll be able to take that and fund it and you'll be able to see um

you know how much you may obviously probably put a little bit more in the first kid versus the second because the second will have a few more years uh to be able to have some growth. But that should be plenty. I mean, honestly, you could probably just check that off. I mean, talk to talk to your Smart Ver Pro. Ours we sat with ours and um we do every January and he ran out the calculations of tuition as it continues and you're like, "Oh, go." Um so do some

numbers, some projecting, but that's what's great about having a investment professional in your corner is that they they do all of that. they're able to look out and project um not even from like a market perspective, you know, with um average rates of return, but also what tuition is going to do to make sure that you guys have enough. But you have a massive head start, which is wonderful. So, yeah, I would just get with an investment professional and they can help transfer those funds.

All right, let's go to Ashley. Oh, in Key West, Florida. So, nice.

>> Hello. >> Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Um my situation is kind of unique. Um my

husband is active duty military and um

we have find our found ourselves in a very unique situation. Um we were up in

Pensacola, the panhandle of Florida. We owned a home there and we got orders to come to Key West and um the cost of

living down here is astronomical.

>> Um our house has been on the market since April and we're now going into November. >> The house in the handle.

>> Correct. We've had no movement at all on it. It's being shown uh three to four times a week, but we've had zero offers.

We've lowered the price twice. We've done um updates, incentives for buyers,

and it's just nothing is happening. And between our mortgage and our rent here in Key West, >> we're paying out over eight grand a month. >> Oh my gosh. >> Um between the two things. And um because I I'm still having to pay someone to maintain my pool on the home, the yard, um the the lights and the water is still on. So, and then everything combined is actually like 7980 something. Um >> what's your real estate professional telling you?

>> Um well, he told us about a couple months ago to put it up for rent also.

So, we did that. Um and we've also had

no movement on it being rented. We actually made our mortgage on the house is 3,000. It well when we originally bought it was 2100 and it went up to 29

because of property taxes >> in that area. Um we have uh not a very

ideal rate because we bought it in um

2023 when the >> rates but the a time on market right now

is is 2 months 16 62 days. What is your

real estate professional saying is the challenge? Because it sounds like it's people are looking at it. They're interested in it.

>> Have you run comps in the area to see is it overpriced? >> It is actually lower than the comps in the area. Um it's just um for whatever

reason in that Pensacola area, no one is

buying and no one is selling.

>> Yeah. Um but um my other issue is you

know we both we also have credit card debt and we have two car payments and um

um we make good money.

>> Um just going out in payments. Um correct. >> Okay. How much do you guys bring in a month? >> Um oh gosh I didn't write down the monthly. I did I did it by year for y'all. >> Okay you can go ahead. Yeah. What per year? >> Um so together um we both make 135 a

year. Is that before tax?

>> That is um before tax. Yes.

>> Okay. Um in the apartment that you guys are in now, how much are you guys paying per month? >> So, we're actually on base. So, it's taking my husband's basic housing allowance. It's like an aotment that comes out of his paycheck. >> Okay. So, y'all aren't having to pay for rent right now. I thought you said that rent's astronomical.

>> It it is. So, our our rent, so the Navy

subcontracts out um their property

management. So, they are taking $4,568

per month for us to live here on

>> $4,000 on base.

>> Yes, that's correct. 4568.

>> Gosh. So, could you >> could you move somewhere else or >> did you get a onebedroom apartment, take your loans? >> So, I I So, there are no apartment complexes down here. That is the issue with Key West and um service members coming down here. There there are no barracks. There are no places for military members to live. Um I I did

actually Google this this morning. I went on Zulu so that I could get some examples for you guys. Um an average 32

is between 6500 to $8,000.

>> That's a 32. What's a one? What's a one?

>> What's a onebedroom? Like a survival.

around four 3500 to four

>> for a onebedroom apartment.

>> Correct. Mhm. And I mean like this is

you know. >> Yeah. Totally. Now I hear you. Okay. So the cars, tell me about the cars. How much do you owe on each of those?

>> Um so on my Armada I owe 20,000. My

monthly payment is 550.

>> Okay. >> U my husband's F-150 he owns he owes 18

and his payment is 575.

>> Yep. Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's yeah over $1,000 going out in just that in just car payments. >> Then we have $30,000 worth of credit card debt. >> Okay. >> And then um we actually um last week

um as crazy as it sounds had to take out a Coast Guard mutual assistance loan in

the amount of 2500 because my transmission something failed on my transmission. Now, that loan is 0% interest because it's it comes from um

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, what what I would say is I would look at seeing if you guys can sell these cars and get [music] two $5,000

cars, even if you have to take a small loan for the difference, just to get this $1,000 freed up. Um because that's

going to help you a ton. [music] Cut up the credit cards and you guys have to draw a hard line in the sand and say, "No more debt. No more debt." And it's

going to take a little while to dig out, but I'd be working extra doing what you can. >> And get a new real estate professional.

Go to ramsysolutions.com/realestate.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey, real quick. We were just talking about this off air, Rachel.

If if you went and bought a ton of house

during the like not during the pandemic, but after the pandemic, right? Or if you went and followed your neighbor who does

really well or followed somebody at your local church, whatever, and they bought a property like a beach house like this last caller, or they bought a lakehouse, whatever in 2023, 2024, and you're like, "Yeah, I want to do that, too." Somebody's going to pay the piper on that deal, man. >> Yes. >> And it's one of those things that we keep I don't know, man. Dave's been beating this drum forever, and now we're picking up the the the drumsticks and beating it, too.

um and then now they find themselves in a stuck position. My heart breaks for that last caller who got got new orders,

had to move, and now they can't sell their house there. But but people flocked to these places and they bought a second and a third and a fourth house and they mortgaged it here and they >> Man, it's a mess people are finding themselves in. >> Yes. Yeah.

keeping your life financially simple, you guys. It's boring. It's not exciting, >> but it brings peace because you're not trying to play this game where you're juggling this, then we're going to pull it out of here and this and this. And we've just heard so many stories recently kind of of that happening and people are hitting the wall is what it feels like.

>> And I'm heartbroken for this this military family who just got moved and that house won't sell. >> Yeah. But everyone in the neighborhood bought their third house. I I don't know.

It's just I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

peaceful. Yes, >> boring is peaceful. >> And the same is true just with investing. When we talk about like >> boring, it's boring. >> Invest 15% of your income into 401ks and Roth IAS. Everyone's like, "Boo, let me go do something real estate with cashing." Boring.

>> Yeah. But man, I'm telling you, yes, it is. It takes some patience for sure in this, but you're doing it the right way. You're not building a house on sand, right? Like it is strong and the structure is there because it's real money. You're being wise about it. So, everyone slow down >> and feel it out. All right. Well, everyone also needs insurance and it can be hard trying to find pros.

>> Great transition >> who [clears throat] aren't looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. And with Ramsey Trusted Insurance pros, you will never find a sleazy business or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed. They are vetted and they are coached by our team to make sure they are market experts and have your best interest at heart. So go to ramseysolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance that you are looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent or click the link in the description if you are listening on YouTube or podcast.

We've had a lot of Florida calls. Hi Susan, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you so much for taking my call.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help today? Um, I have been a caregiver for three

handicapped family members for 28 years.

>> Wow.

>> For I have dumped all my retirement into

taking care of them, which was over half a million dollars. And I need to know

how I go about rebuilding my f financial

life as I have none right now. I have no

credit. I owe no one anything,

>> but I need to know how to build my um

stockpile of funds so I can have some kind of retirement because I know I will have no one to take care of me.

>> Yikes. Um are are these three family members still living?

>> Yes, they're here now in the house with me. I have two mentally handicapped brothers. one who now is crippled, one

who is going through prostate cancer, and I have my 90year-old mom who has severe dementia.

>> Oh wow, Susan, that's a lot.

>> Do you have support? >> Yeah. And I had a wonderful life before this. I worked for one of the richest men in the world. I had my own corporate jet. I was making great money. Wow.

>> My dad passed away and I stepped in and I had left home when I was 14.

>> Oh man. Well, you're a you're a saint.

Um, do do you have I mean have you

explored things like

>> Excuse me. >> I haven't done anything truthfully.

>> How old are you?

>> I am 66.

>> You're 66. Okay.

>> I want you to >> and I started this job. >> Explore SSI benefits for your brothers.

>> Yes, we do have benefits coming in. I

have them on a program called CDC Plus.

>> Okay. So, I am now, they kept telling me

I couldn't get paid as the caregiver because I was a family member, >> but I found this program through another woman who had a handicapped daughter.

>> Okay. >> And I'm getting paid, but I'm only been

getting paid now for like seven years.

>> Okay. What about for your mom? Is she on Medicaid?

>> She's on Medicare only. They kicked her off of Medicaid for some reason. So

that's where part of my money went to paying her medical bills as she got

older. >> Well, here's what I'm worried. I'm worried that because of your

>> wild and amazing generosity,

>> you're going to find yourself >> in a hole. >> In a hole and unable to take care of yourself, much less take care of them.

>> Right? because I'm at uh at I'm going to

say the truth at this point I'm at burnout mode and everybody has always called me superwoman >> and they said my god you you run on rocket fuel you know >> and I'm getting to the point where I not

only can't do it I don't want to do it

>> and that's okay that's okay and I Rachel

and I are right there with you we get that totally get that >> but the greatest thing you The greatest thing you can do for them right now is make sure you've got a plan for yourself.

>> Right. >> You just hired a part-time caregiver to come in and help me. >> Are you okay? Good. Yes. Are you um is there any income, Susan, from that from whether it's the caregiving position or anything else that you're doing that you're bringing in money? >> I I am making very good money. Um, I

have available to me $170,000

a year, >> okay, >> that I can take for myself, but at this

point, like I said, I'm on burnout and I need to hire people and I'm paying $30 an hour for caregiver.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, what >> I do have money available to me, but >> And is that is that 170 like a retirement package that will be ongoing or what what happens with that? That's the money I get paid from the program to take care of them. >> Okay, I hear you. Okay, >> take care of only two.

>> Okay, >> mom doesn't get anything. So, I'm still paying all her costs.

>> Okay. >> Well, 170 grand a year is a chunk of money if you have no bills.

>> Is your house paid off?

>> My what? >> Your house?

>> No. Um, it's not my house. It's my It's

in my mom's name, but I'm paying the mortgage. >> Okay. And I have $80,000 left on the

mortgage. >> $80,000. >> Is it left to you in a will when she passes? Will it become yours?

>> It's in trust. She put it in a trust.

>> Yeah. For the three of us >> for Oh, for the three. You and the two brothers. >> Yes. Because the Well, the ones that are the mentally >> handicap make financials.

>> Yes. Okay. Um Yep. Okay. Well, I would

probably sit down with a lawyer because because they're going to need um even like a special needs type of trust or I mean there's some ways to go about this estate planning to make sure that because they're living with you, making sure obviously that I'm not trying to write them out of the estate or anything like that or her will, but to be wise about how to divvy all this up realistically. Um do you see yourself

ongoing, Susan, to be with your two brothers or are you hoping maybe to find someone? I'll never ever give up on them. Never. >> Yes. So, you're going to plan on living with them and then just maybe supplementing some help throughout the day. Okay. >> You know, I I honestly, Susan, would probably sit down with an attorney. Is your mom um I know you said she has cancer. Is she dementia? Oh, it's your brother. I can't make any decision. >> Yes. Okay. The trust was made before she declined. So, thank God for that.

>> Yes. Good. Good. Good. >> Do you have a good um estate attorney?

Do you guys that you're working? >> I've never been to an estate attorney.

>> Okay. You know, I may I may reach out to someone in your area, honestly, Susan, because I would have them look at not only the income that's coming in, but some things that you can do around to help your brothers and there might be some way to shuffle some money that's actually going to be good for their best interest that you're going to be able to help them. And then with the real estate and everything on top of that, um, what that looks like because if you can prove that you've been paying [music] a certain level of mortgage, you know, there might be something that you guys can do in that.

I just want you to be set up like what you're saying really well, but [music] but 170,000 a year is wonderful.

Well, in the lobby [music] of Ramsay Solutions on the debt-free stage, age. We have Rebecca here. Hi, Rebecca. >> Hi. >> How are you doing? >> It's so amazing to be here. >> Oh, we're so glad that you're here. We love a debtree scream. We are so glad.

So, where are you from? >> Uh Wake Forest, North Carolina.

>> North Carolina. Okay. >> Beautiful part of the country. >> It's amazing. >> Amazing. Okay. How much debt have you paid off? >> $27,000.

>> Oh my gosh. Making what kind of money?

>> Uh 100 to 130.

>> Okay. And what was the uh or what amount of time? How fast did you do this? >> 91 months. 91 months.

>> Not that you counted exactly. [laughter] >> I love it. Wow. Okay. What was the uh

$27,000?

THE HOUSE. >> OH MY GOSH. YOU DID IT.

>> I did. You paid off the house.

Congratulations. >> Wait, did anyone else help you? >> No. >> But hold on. Um I've been reading the news a lot and single people can't do

>> what what you've done. So clearly you've made all of this this up, right?

>> No. Never. Single people can't work really hard and grind and and scratch and claw and do this. >> Oh, they can if they truly want it.

>> Golly, dude. >> Unbelievable. Unbelievable. >> Fun ruiner.com. That's amazing.

>> Okay, so um tell me this. How much is the house worth? >> Um I think the last estimate I saw was like 390. >> 390. Okay, good for you. Okay, so what

happened? Was that eight yearsish, right? >> Seven and a half. >> Seven and a half. Okay, I'll give you that. Um, tell me what happened seven and a half years ago that you were like, I want to >> um I was a first-time home buyer. So, >> um, longtime listeners might remember that back in 2016, my siblings and I were at your old, um, studio doing our

debtree screams all on the same day.

>> Oh my I do remember your [laughter] family. I'm not kidding cuz y'all all did it. >> Uhhuh. >> Um, so like that was me. I was debtree

at that point. Okay. >> And I followed the baby steps. did my three my 3B. Um, and by the time I was

ready to start the qualifying process for my mortgage and buy the house, I wasn't quite at the like FICO score disappeared. >> So, I was in this weird limbo of they wanted to pull it, but then like stuff was falling off, so it didn't look good.

So, then they had to do the manual underwriting. >> Um, and I had saved up my 10% down

payment and and my emergency fund within

14 months. >> Oh my gosh. And by 16 months, I had signed the paperwork buying the house.

>> Oh my gosh. >> So, it just started happening. Yes. >> It just started happening. And then once I signed the paperwork for the house, >> I had done my budget before I even bought the house of what can I afford, how much extra could I put on it. Um, the bank obviously qualifies you for way

more than [laughter] you really probably want or need or should have.

>> Um, and it was so great. I worked with

an ELP that I had worked with previous realators. I thought I had wanted a historic house >> because my grandmother had a Victorian.

I thought that's what I wanted. There were two realators that just completely shut me down. Didn't even want to show me historic homes. And the realtor I work with who was an ELP.

Yeah. One of our Ramsey, >> one of the Ramsey pros, um, Rob Parton, he was so great and he showed me historic houses so that I could see what I was getting into >> to be like maybe that's not what I want as [laughter] my first home. >> Yes. Yes, >> there's some work to be done there.

>> There is some work to be done or what previous owners might have done to change the house that it's not really then what you want cuz it's not what you were expecting. >> Interesting. Yeah, it looks one way and then you go in and you're like, "Nope, this isn't." >> And I got him to understand that if you showed me the floor plan first, >> that might just shut it down right there. We don't even need to go see the house.

[laughter] >> Um, [clears throat] so finally, you know, I got off I didn't want the historic house anymore.

it is so important to have the emergency fund in place first because

>> 3 years into the house, um, there was a mouse on the first floor and I saw him come up through the floor vent from the HVAC system. >> Oh no. >> So that led to me calling an HVAC person to go in the crawl space and there was work that needed to be done on the HVAC and then while he was down there he's like, "Hey, do you know your water heater's leaking?" And then you got to get that fixed. And then you have to get that fixed.

>> And you're a homeowner, so you're paying for all this. Um it's coming out of your pocket.

You have to pay for that. But I had the emergency fund in place and I still had enough room in my budget that I was able to replace the emergency fund like within the next two paychecks.

>> Oh my gosh. >> After those two things came up. And it's, you know, it's such a good point because people want to rush into home ownership, which we want that a part of people's plan obviously. Like it's wonderful.

But when you have no money and you have payments and debt and everything and then you go buy a house on top of that, it just >> magnifies so much. So you're you're like, "Yeah, you doing the steps perfectly did exactly what it was supposed to do where it's supposed to be more of an inconvenience when things come up >> than this total crisis." >> Yeah. And um when I first started, I was doing 12-hour night shifts >> and I was >> Are you a nerd? What do you do?

>> Um at the time, I was working on the manufacturing floor for a pharmaceutical company. >> Okay.

co-workers because they didn't know which rotation I was on because I was doing overtime. Okay. [laughter] Um, and then in CO happened and that

kind of burnt me out because as an essential employee, >> um, you had to work no matter what. And then if other people were out because of the COVID protocol, you know, other people had to fill in or there was extra work that you had to get done on your shift. >> And so finally in 2022, I got off of

night shift and I got off of the floor.

So now I'm an 8 hour Monday through Friday person, which I never thought I would like, but I do. >> Yes. Good quality of life there. Yes.

>> Um and my salary did drop a little bit

when that happened because I lost the um shift premium and the um overtime and the built-in overtime that I could get, but it has been such a nice change.

>> Yes. >> And I'm so glad. >> And there were other compensations of um my my bonus compensation went up, my stock compensation went up. >> So good.

And that was one of the things I did was um the company gave us stock as part of our compensation >> and some of my co-workers would look at me like I was crazy every time I cashed it out when it vested. >> Yeah. >> And they're like, "What are you doing?" And I was like, "I have other things I'd rather spend that money on." >> Yeah. >> Than hope that >> So smart.

>> It goes up.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, what was what was the hardest part during these eight years? Cuz that's a long time.

>> It was a long time. And I think the hardest part was learning the intensity versus intentional. Yes, >> cuz coming out of baby step two, doing the 3B, going into this, I was still on the intense. >> Uhhuh.

>> And I was like, I don't need to just start enjoying some of this and making it worth it. And so then finally in like 2023, 2024, I was like, okay, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Um, I can slow down a little bit. I was definitely a nerd and had my AM schedule in a spreadsheet.

>> I believe it was talking to you for about 2 minutes. I'm like, Rebecca, she knows. See?

>> Oh, yeah. That there it is. Um, so I actually that's like the pretty cleaned up version of it. As I was doing it, I had it broken down by like years of like if I put this much extra on it, I would be done by this year, this year, this year, this year.

>> Okay, let me let me jump in. If there is a single person listening to the news and and here's the reality. Buying homes is expensive. It's hard. It's a mad house. Mhm.

>> What would you tell that person who just feels hopeless?

>> There is hope. You just have to want it bad enough, like I said, to find the way to make it work. >> Um, don't buy more than you can afford.

Um, sometimes you have to go further out than you want to go for your commute.

Sometimes you might need to start in a smaller house than you might originally want and work your way up. Um, I was lucky enough that this was back when the market was a little bit better, [laughter] a little bit better. Um, and I have a good salary that, you know, my starter house is actually the house I just want to stay in. I don't want to move. But there were other properties available that were smaller and more reasonable that I could have, you know, started as a starter home instead.

>> Well, dude, this is You're amazing.

>> Incredible,cc

I bet your family's so proud. >> They are. Yeah. My dad kept saying like, "Has it pen paid off yet? I need to brag. I need to brag. Has it paid off yet?" And I was like, and my dad was so great, too, that there were things that I wanted to do project-wise in the house. Um, and he's a mechanical engineer and very handy. So, he would come help and with some sweat equity.

So, >> Okay. Well, let's do it cuz it's well worth it. The scream is well worth it. Okay. So, we have Rebecca uh from North Carolina. Paid off $27,000,

which is the mortgage, making 100 to 130,000 and did this in 7 and a half years. All right, girl. Count it down.

Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

>> Dude, it's amazing.

>> So good. So good, [applause] Rebecca.

Man, that's it. [music] That's That's the story. It's what you do, you know.

Seven and a half years later, you got no no payments in the world. >> Nothing. >> Well done, Rebecca. [music] I know your parents are proud. We're proud of you, too.

>> [music]

[music] >> Heat.

[music] Heat.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 3:17.

Join together in following my example, brothers and sisters, and [music] just as you have us a model, keep your eyes on those who live as we do. Alice Cooper

said, "Drinking beer is easy. Trashing your hotel room is easy, but being a Christian, that's a tough call. That is rebellion." >> Yeah, James. >> Alice Cooper. >> James, stop trashing hotel rooms.

>> Act like a Christian. It's harder.

>> He was a metal metal. What did you say he was? He's one of the He's one of the legendary metal singers of all time.

>> Is he part of a group? >> Al Cooper. That was the name of the band. >> Oh, >> that's his name, too.

>> I listen to Taylor Swift. So,

>> dude, Al Cooper. I'm sure I've heard rules, dude. Same as same as Taylor Swift. Just same. >> Just all in the same in the same genre.

I'll take it. [laughter] [snorts] >> All right, let's go to all people are

just shaking their heads at me. It's fine. It's like I don't know what world you live in sometimes and it's so I think we live in the same world. >> I have no music world.

>> We sit by each other. >> I have no music >> genuinely. It's like >> it's like Taylor Swift and Backstreet Boys. That's it.

>> I'm going back in February. What?

[laughter] Give me like pop 2003 and I am in my prime >> or >> give me give me that. >> Okay. All right. >> All right. Let's go to Sarah in Washington DC. Hi Sarah, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Um I will try to cut to the chase.

My ultimate question is should we rent

or buy? Um my husband's active duty

active duty army. Um we move a lot um

but it's never been overseas. We just found out we have an opportunity um that a sliver of a chance that we might um need to go overseas. Um it would be in

Belgium. It would be um for NATO. So

usually in that case we would consider living on post but there is no post there. It would be we would have to live in the community. >> Okay. >> Um we we have rented houses. We've been

married um since 2020. So about 5 years.

We have moved eight times >> in that course of action. >> Wow. That's a lot. >> Uh we've been spooked a couple of times.

The first house we rented, we were in Missouri. We were paying rent um on time, never late. Um we got an eviction

notice uh in the mailbox one day. The um

homeowner Yeah. was not paying the mortgage. We were paying them rent. They weren't paying the mortgage. So >> Oh jeez. >> Um that was the first time. And then the we've moved a couple times since then while we were in North Carolina. We liked the house we were in. Um I was pregnant with um our daughter, our

second child, and uh we signed a lease to stay in the house and then two months later into the lease, the owner decided to sell. So we are a little You've been burned. That's what it feels like.

>> Yeah. And we we took a call earlier from

>> a veteran's wife who they had bought a house and they were settled in and then they got transferred to another part of the state and they've been sitting on that house for months >> and paying [snorts] two paying rent a crazy rent and a mortgage. So, as much as y'all have been burned in the past, which I hate, it's still the it's still the better financial move for you guys, especially if you're going to be overseas and you're not going to, you know, be there long term probably, right?

>> Yeah. He has seven years before he's up for retirement at the 20 year mark >> and you guys still have been moving >> but >> multiple time I mean >> yeah so I would not Sarah just because

>> um and especially overseas I would just rent because >> you know number one you don't know when you guys would be you know transferred out and also you don't even know what part of the cityish you would even want to be in because do you guys have do you guys have kids little kids >> yeah four and two >> okay So I would even want from a I mean and I would tell you this if you're moving to a new city let alone another country to know like okay this is like the area I want to be for grocery shopping and for the kids and school and I don't know all the things that life is you know you could get stuck in a really crappy situation a crappy side of town that you're like no we do all of our life over here and we moved over here we didn't know so from a location perspective I wouldn't buy and then also from the investment side because again it's so shortterm and you need I mean at least at least four to five years for a house to be able to kind of run its mark, you know, after all the closing costs, all the stuff that you pay and what whatever the market's doing at the time just to actually gain some equity to make it somewhat smart financially.

So, um, so no, Sarah, if I were you, I would, uh, definitely rent, but thank you guys so much for your service.

That's a that is a dedication of how much you guys have been moving and sacrificing. So, thanks. Thank you to both of you. Well, and and like I think it's an important thing. We talk a lot about um how grateful we are for the

servicemen and women who are enlisted, but for every service person who's enlisted, not for everyone, but for many of them, there's also a spouse >> that's has to pack up and move. And there's little kids that have to pack up and move at a moment's notice.

>> Um often at great cost, financial cost.

And so it's it's an honor to talk to everybody. Mhm. >> Um, what I have found in this situation when somebody's getting moved a lot is

the temptation to [clears throat] make a decision that feels like I'm putting roots in the ground of some sort.

>> And like you mentioned, it wouldn't be wise to go buy a house in a country you

don't know anything about and you don't know how long you're going to be there.

Um, and so what we want to do is to create where can we create roots in an alternative way other than in a mortgage. And so coming up with concrete

family rituals is often a thing you can do. We never deviate from Monday mornings or from Sunday nights or from an evening meal together, whatever. But we're going to create home in these regular practices that we never deviate from and we can carry those to all these different rent houses and across the country. This becomes home for us until we can anchor into a geographical location.

Yeah. >> But it's it's it's not as it's not as rooted as a home. like this is our land but but it is something that gives you some anchor point. >> No, that's a good point.

Just the consistency to feel norm to to have the normal. Yeah, >> the normaly. >> All right, let's go to Katie in Washington State.

>> Hi, thank you. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help? >> Um I my husband and I are in disagreement. We're in baby step two and we have a daughter that just started college >> and he kind of thinks we should focus on getting out of debt ourselves before we help her. But I just I'm terrified for her to even touch debt at this point. So I don't want her to take out any student loans. I'd rather cash flow it and then but I know that would kind of slow down our debtree journey.

>> Yeah. >> So you're miss you're missing option three.

>> All right. And you're not going to like it. But can I tell it to you anyway?

>> Of course. >> All right. Here's here's the umbrella principle. Whenever you feel like you're forced into an eitheror decision, >> that's when people make bad choices or choices that I want to say bad, but they're they're not helpful.

It's when people get themselves in trouble. And so whenever I feel like I have an eitheror decision to make, then I always want to force myself into a practice of putting four or five imaginary variables on the table that prove to me that I don't have to do this one or this one.

treading water so that she can go to college.

Option three is >> y'all sit down and have a honest, direct, loving conversation. That is

we are not in any way going to support you taking on debt. Look at us. We're living the we're living that reality right now and we don't have the money.

And so we're going to be in Washington State and we're gonna I'm making this up. I don't know if they got it, but you're going to participate at least in your freshman year >> free community college >> in the free community college >> or you've got to start right now applying for every single solitary scholarship possible. >> And maybe Katie, how much do you guys how much debt do you guys have left?

>> Um, we have about 150,000 >> of consumer debt or does that include the mortgage?

>> That's just consumer debt. >> Okay. Yeah. Well, yeah. So, I I mean I'm

a little bit more on your husband's team that you guys >> Yeah, totally. and and for her sake, like you said, still

talking to her and having that conversation, but where can she go to school? That's really inexpensive, which may mean changing, right? She may be in the middle of a semester somewhere, but >> is she in school or is she a senior?

>> She's currently in school. She's a freshman college this year. We we paid for her first semester and we're getting ready to pay for the second one.

>> Okay. So So I I've worked in colleges for years. Every semester parents had this convers hard conversation with their kids which was we can't afford this past this year and we're sorry and we're heartbroken. Here's the truth.

>> We're going to change it. Yes. And that's some big [music] that's some big time decisions and takes a lot of maturity, but it's it's the wisest path, Katie. All right, John. Great show.

[music] Always fun hosting with you. Everyone in the booth, thank you. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, [music] and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 146. Stop Excusing Debt as a Dream | August 26, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `aM3xWJHfVQs` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM3xWJHfVQs) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:10:57 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, PhD in counseling, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show. Uh, a big hit

on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host.

Open Phones at8255225.

Danny is in Orange County. Hey, Danny.

What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Uh, big fan first and foremost. Big fan of No,

>> thank you. >> Um, I just have a a quick question here.

Um, so I've been married with my wife for about 10 years at this point.

Um, it's going to be in October, uh, 10 years, uh, milestone. Um, really happy about that. But, um, I don't think we're on the same page on finances. And so,

recently we had this hard conversation where I, uh, told her I want to get, you

know, a different account so that I can manage, uh, the money a little better.

um she's been um she's been managing the

finances for the amount that we've been married. Uh but at this point, we're

earning a lot more than what we did when we first started, you know, when we first got >> So, how did the conversation go after you told your wife she sucks at this?

>> Uh she didn't really say much. I just I hope you don't take this >> Yeah, she she's >> I said I hope you don't take this into, you know, with any offense, but I think it's my to take

>> um Right. And uh she just stood quiet

and we kind of went on with it. And so I said, I'm going to look into it. And I just I've been looking for which would be the best bank to open a new account with, but I haven't really done it. And yesterday I, you know, was going through

uh the different credit cards that we have and coming to find out that uh one of our credit cards is back, you know, into the debt. Um so I guess to give you

a little bit more context, we tried doing the second baby step, the snowball effect, and we were doing well.

Um so >> No, we weren't. You were. And she was doing whatever she wanted.

>> That's true. Yeah, >> I'll say >> what what is what is she so bad at that

brought you to a point where you sat down and said, >> "I need to I I feel so unsafe with our

family finances. I need to get our my own account."

>> So, I'm earning now six figures, which,

you know, she's been a great a big part of, you know, she supported me and now I'm earning 110K on a yearly basis. Um

um >> I I would I would I'm tempted to stop you right there and just say y'all are earning six figures.

>> Okay. Yeah, that is correct. Uh we are earning u 110 and she has a part-time.

So she brings in about 20 20k a year with the little part-time that she has.

And >> so we're doing a lot better than what we used to. And um we are still kind of

living paycheck to paycheck even with you know our our rent.

>> I know. I know. But here's what I'm I'm asking. What is what does she do now

that y'all are making 130 grand a year together?

What has she done that has has told you

you need to protect this family by getting money away from her and handling it all yourself?

Um, like I said, so I trusted that the

finances would go, I guess, good, but

she's even had to use a credit card to pay our rent.

Um, >> it tells me y'all don't have a budget, dude. >> Like, it tells me y'all have good ideas, but y'all aren't sitting down on the same when you stay on the same page. Like, y'all sit down at the beginning of every month and decide here's what's important to us. Here's what we have to do, and then here's the debts we're going to pay off in in this order.

And if y'all aren't having that conversation, it like we hear from people all the time who make way way way way more money than you, but they're still in a mess financially.

You're making more money, but you if y'all are still spending like like wild, it doesn't you're not doing any better.

>> You're fixing the problem with the wrong tool, honey. The tool of opening a separate account is not going to fix the problem. It's going to make it worse. So, here's what we need to do instead.

Okay. you called to ask. So, we'll tell you because we love you. All right.

>> 83% of the millionaires that we have surveyed, this is actual data, say that

they work hand in hand as teamwork with

a cooperative spouse towards our dreams.

Less than 50% of the general public say that. And they're not millionaires as a result. So, what we know is is that couples that work together on their finances in detail, uh, one of them

being more nerdy, one of them being more of a free spirit, one of them being a saver, one of them being a spender, but they have an agreement on the goal and an agreement before the month begins on the steps we're going to take with our money this month towards that goal.

Those couples that are aligned have end up with two things. Longer, happier marriages and a higher probability of building wealth. separate accounts works against that, not with that. And so

you're harming your future relationship and you're harming your probability to build wealth if you go the route you're asking about. So I'm going to beg you not to do that for your sake. Now, what do we do instead? Instead, we're going to put you on the every dollar budget and you're going to go and apologize to your wife for insulting her after she's been doing the bills for 10 years and now you woke up because you're making a little bit more money and decided you didn't like the way she's doing it.

before that she was fine. She was on her own and you know, no, that's not okay.

So, I'm sorry I insulted you. You were doing the best you could and I was trying to do something else and I was wrong with where I was going. So, instead, honey, what we're going to do is we're going to sit down and we're going to do this together. We're going to we're going to put in the Every Dollar app every dollar of our income before the month begins.

There will be no more credit cards. There will be no more no more debt. and we are going to use this wonderful income that we have to build a wonderful life and a wonderful future. And so we're going to sit down together.

Every dollar is going to have an assignment before the month begins. And then we're going to stick to that. Both of us are going to pinky swear spit shake. We have a marital contract that that's our game and we are going to do that.

Both of you have a vote and both of you have an agreement and both of you are grown-ups. No fit throwing. No four-year-olds. I work so hard.

Everybody works hard. Please call me the Wambbulance. Instead, get together, work on this stuff together, and you will see a change.

that's it. And the only other thing I would add is you can't put rent on the credit card if y'all have gone that extra step and cut up all the credit cards. If you have a backup plan in this situation, you're going to use it every time. And so, you got to take that ability.

You've proven to yourselves you can't get there if that's an if you have this off-ramp. So, you got to get rid of the off-ramp. You got to cut up the credit cards. >> Yeah.

Lobsters are the only things that survive going backwards. >> That's it. So, we're gonna cut them up and then we're gonna That's gonna force us every month to sit at the table and figure this thing out. >> Yeah.

That's the deal, man. Well, maybe shrimp. Yeah, maybe crawads. But, >> craads do, too.

>> Crustaceians. >> But, let me say this, right? >> And Dave said this the best, man. It's easy when you've been struggling financially.

when you cross that magic number, whether it's 75 grand or six figures or 500,000, it's to suddenly think you're better than um you're not.

you started the call, she's been a great support staff for you. So con be conscience of your language. This is y'all's money. This is y'all's debt.

This needs to be y'all's plan out of this mess. Um and again, Dave, I don't I

don't know another way that it works. >> No, you have to be together working this, not separate accounts. It doesn't work. I mean, everybody thinks that's some kind of individuality or something. If you want individuality, don't get married, okay? Geez, you're a horrible

spouse when you do that. Not you, but everybody that does it. So, hang on.

We're going to sign you up for every dollar advanced version for free. We'll pay for it. Help you guys get on the right track. You can do this, Danny.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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[Music]

[Music] Karen is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi Karen, how are you?

>> I am doing well. Thank you Dave and John

for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. I have been unemployed since February and I was in the process of

doing baby step two and I'm I still have

not gained uh employment. Why once I'm

employed I haven't gained employment because the sector that was really um affected had

reduced funding. So it's been very hard to be or get back into that.

>> So leave the sector go to something else. It's been February.

>> Yeah. And I have been trying even for

customer service. >> How you been eating since February?

>> Well, uh when I was unemployed, I had 12

weeks of unemployment and um my daughter

got social security. Her her father passed and adoption and I had an adoption assistant. So after that 12 weeks, my parents have been helping me tremendously. And I don't think that I

don't think without my parents' assistance that I would have gotten this far. >> Wow. Well, that's sweet that they're there. >> And uh what what were you doing before you lost your job?

>> Um I was a project coordinator in clinical research industry.

>> Okay. If you do you have project management skills?

>> I I I do. I supported project managers

and I am studying to get my project

management certification.

Um thankfully I got a scholarship so that I could be get the training and pay for my exam. So that has been a blessing. >> When when will that be?

>> Uh September the 6th.

>> Oh, good. Next week. Exam. Good.

>> Yeah. September the 6th. So, and um

>> listen, I I want you uh going crazy looking for a project manager job starting today. And in the meantime, I want you doing 42 things at the local mall, working retail, customer service from home, Walmart, Target, anybody

that'll put you in there. And believe me, Target will put you in there if you're breathing. >> So, um yeah, go get something at $20 an hour and get some money coming in to get the fear out of the back of your voice.

cuz that fear in the back of your voice, I don't want it there when you're interviewing for these project manager jobs.

>> Of of course. And um like I said, I was

doing the baby steps and I had $1,000 in my in the um emergency fund and I felt

like that that I wasn't even prepared for a layoff in my years.

>> You were in debt and broke.

>> Yeah. >> When you're in debt and broke, you're not prepared for a layoff. Of course, you weren't. Uh, and that and we don't but we don't spend our lives staying in debt >> getting ready for a layoff either.

>> So, you were doing the right thing. The only thing that the only thing I would, you know, question is I got to tell you, I'm I'm back to work in about 48 hours after I leave a job. I'm going to go crazy because it scares me to death not working and not making money. I can't handle it.

the idea that the unemployment might be all I had, but that would scare me to the point I'd be willing to do almost anything that was legal and moral >> immediately. So, I want some I want I want to light a fire under you, girl. Go get something today. I want you earning some money right this second.

And then I want you to go get this project manager job, and I'm going to send you some of Ken Coleman's materials to help you do that.

you get laid off. Sometimes you um it steals some of your

confidence, some of your swagger.

>> Steals a ton of it. Yeah. >> It makes you think it has something to do with you and it didn't have anything to do with you, wasn't your fault. And then the second thing is it while people are recovering, grieving that uh as if

there was a death because there kind of is. Uh, it's easy to get paralyzed and

drag this out. The a and have tunnel

vision and think I've got to go back doing the same kind of job exactly that I did before. Uh, you need a new one. And as you said, that sector is sick. So, get out of that sector. Yeah. I love the idea of professional identity being about who you help, knowing that how and who you

help is going to change over time. But I'm a person who helps. And so that might be at Burger King for a season, that might be at Home Depot for a season, and that might be a full-time psychologist for a like it doesn't matter like if that core identity. So finding out you're a person who helps people solve problems, that might be a TJ TJ Maxx, and that might be as a project manager for a high flutin research, >> making 100 grand, >> right?

But it's when our ego gets trapped in the job title, man, then you can stay unemployed for a long, long time. >> You can't stay unemployed 10 more minutes, girl. You got to go get it. >> That's right.

And you said something real important and I don't know how this works.

whenever I hired people, I could always tell who felt like I would be lucky to

have them and who desperately needed me to have them. And it just it impacted how I hired. There's a swagger you walk in when you are applying for a job. It's like, hey, I want to be here and you'd be really lucky to have me versus please please please please hire me. And when

you are able to eat and when you're able when you've got another job in your back pocket, you can have a more honest direct conversation. Then I'll take whatever you got. Please just there's a desperation that that just is in the air. >> It's in the air. It's in your body language. It's in your voice tone. It's in the pauses in your sentences. It's in everything. And people can read it even if they don't know they're reading it.

>> Uh Kelly Pickup, let's get her on uh Find the Work You're Wired to Do by Coleman and Proximity Principle. And uh then I want you Karen to go to his website at kleman.com and download all the forms. They're free to write the letter to get right in somebody's face and go get some positions right now.

That is the answer to the equation is income and and looking in the mirror and saying Karen's awesome. There's nothing wrong with Karen. It's a thing that happened. Now Karen's going to get it.

Get it. Courtney's in California. Hi Courtney. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey, so um really very recently um I

just my husband came to me and told me that we had a significant amount of debt

um consumer debt, consumer debt, credit cards. Um it was about 50,000 um

>> that I didn't know about. Um so we had

some equity in our home. I took out a heliloc loan to to just to get rid of it. It was high interest credit cards and we have the HELOC loan now and that's those are all paid down or they're paid down and then through the HELOC loan they canceled them all. Um I

thought we were kind of through the storm of it. He came to me last night or just the other day and told me there's an additional 27,000 um SoFi loan that he took out to pay off

the credit cards a year ago and then wrecked them back up. Um,

so >> Courtney, what's he spending money on? >> It's not the first time.

>> Well, I I asked for statements. I was going through some statements. Um, it's mostly food. I only have statements from this year. He hasn't sent me the statements from last couple years. I

>> partially my fault. I should have been more involved with finances. Um, I had some complicated pregnancies and so I just I asked them to handle it for the last few years because it's the pregnancies and just getting some stuff off of my plate. I work a high um >> so is he is are you guys not making your ends meet and this is the way he's covering it and he didn't want to burden you with it cuz you asked him to handle it.

>> Yes, that was what's happened.

>> Are you confident of that? It's rare that somebody runs up $75,000 and there's not something else they're hiding.

>> Yeah. So I don't I don't know yet. He I'm still waiting on statements.

>> I wouldn't wait another 24 hours. I wouldn't wait another 24 hours. It's it's all electronic. You can log in right away.

>> Any pause on his account is hiding stuff.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, that's scary. >> It It should be. Yeah. Let's get Let's get to the bottom of it. And then to There's two possible options. There's something really scary going on that that you still don't know about that's really bad. or uh it's simply he's sh

ashamed that he wasn't able to handle everything for you during a time that you were hurting and he didn't want to tell you.

>> Okay? And that's the le that's the most innocuous of all and that one's easy to fix. It's now time for you to be a big girl and get involved. The two of you together handle money together for the rest of your lives. I don't care who's going through a tough season. Both of you are grown-ups. for rich or for poor in sickness and in health. We're doing this together and we both have full

disclosure. None of us is being cared for unless there's an extreme illness of some kind that is ongoing and chronic.

In which case, you accept the consequences of not knowing what's going on. >> I would pull both credit reports tonight on both of you. Yep. From the three credit reporting agencies so you get a clear picture.

We're going to log into the accounts tonight and go through them together. Um, and then y'all are going to be you're going to put a freeze on your credit report so y'all can't take out any more loans without the other person knowing. >> And a promise that we're not going to do that anymore.

[Music]

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[Music]

Well, you got to have a month for everything. I guess August is make a will month. Gross.

Okay, that's all right. It's not gross to make a will, though. It's kind of a grown-up thing to do because it's the admission that the people in your life you love are going to have a plan cuz you're going to be a grown-up and leave them a plan. And that's called a will.

Grown-ups leave a will.

Period. If you're 18 years old or older, you need a will. I don't care if you have any assets. I don't care. You don't want the government deciding what happens to your pets or your kids.

Not necessarily in that order either.

So, the deal is you want a will. You

need a will. It's grown-up things to do.

What What is it that millennials called it a few years ago? Adulting. Adulting.

As if that was a verb. Okay.

Procrastination. 43% of adults without a will say they just hadn't gotten around to it. Yeah. Perfectionism. I have to make some big decisions I don't want to make. Well, then what? Let's just put it off till you die. That'll work. Nope. Uh uh. I think I need a certain amount of assets. I covered that. A belief that everything will automatically go to family. It doesn't. It goes to the lawyers. That's who gets it if you don't do this. Uncertainty about the process.

Well, you got to figure out where to start. Go to ramseysolutions.com/willquiz.

It's a free quiz and we'll help you walk through this. You need to get your will

done. ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz.

It's a grown-up thing. And we've done detailed research. You're going to die.

No one gets out of this alive.

>> 100%. >> And there is no correlation between doing a will and the probability of death. You're going to die anyway, so you might as well. And if you want to piss people off with your will, do it while you're alive. John is here. John's

in Amarillo, Texas. Hey, John. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, I was just calling. I'm uh I'm 20 years old and I'm full-time student and full-time working outside of school. And um >> What are you What are you studying?

>> Business. >> Good. Okay. >> Are you out there at WT?

>> Yes. Good for you.

>> And then uh I was curious. So I'm in the farm and ranch industry and uh I'm about

oh I was about $100,000 in debt on

vehicle loans and then I just recently took out $100,000 to like start a cattle

business. >> Are you punking me? How who gave a 20-year-old a $100,000 cow loan?

>> I know >> who >> I don't know. >> No. Yeah. You know if you did you really do it or not? Are you punking us?

>> Yes, I did. No, I really did it.

>> You're kidding me. Who made the loan?

What's the company's name?

>> I want to make sure all of America hears who's stupid out there.

>> It's a local bank here.

>> What's the name of the local stupid bank? The name of the bank.

>> Uh, education.

>> Education is the name of a bank.

>> Yeah, education credit.

>> Education credit. You pay for it with a student loan education. They gave a 20 year old $100,000 loan to buy cattle.

>> Yes. And I have a CD also.

>> How big is your CD?

>> 100,000. >> Oh, so they didn't give you a loan. You borrowed your own money?

>> Pretty much. Yes, sir. >> Where'd you get $100,000 in a CD?

>> It was a a partnership between me and a

family member on some cattle that we've had for about 10 years. And when we sold those uh >> So you made a profit and now you pledge the whole profit into another herd.

>> Yes. >> All right. What What size cows >> currently? >> What size c What size?

>> What size? >> How many head?

>> I got 25 head.

>> And then how big are they?

>> They are 3 to six years old and they're going to be having cavs in about two to three months. >> Do you know how to cave?

babies.

>> Yes. Okay. >> He's grew up on it. He grew up in it. The family member was his father, probably. All right, honey. Uh, you you called the wrong show. I'm sorry. How can we try to help you?

>> I'm just trying to figure out really like what I can do and if I'd like made a good decision on trying to like take this loan out to >> How long have you listened to this show, huh?

>> Um, about two years probably. Have you

ever heard me tell anyone to borrow money for anything?

>> No, I haven't. >> Ever? >> No, sir. >> Okay. >> And here's here's how I'm afraid about you. >> Kind of know you walked into the lion's den, right?

>> Yes. >> Well, here's what I'm afraid you're about to do. Those cows right now, beef is at an all-time high because there's been drought, right?

>> Yes. and you're going to have babies and you might maybe you might be able to get

away with this one and then you're going to go do it again and you're gonna you're going to put more down on it and you're going to take out a bigger loan >> and then in 18 months or 24 months when everyone's got back into new cows because there's been some rain, the beef prices are going to plummet >> and you're going to be up a creek.

You're going to have lost it all. >> Yeah. Your CD is what you lost. The bank hasn't gained risk. I think back's not stupid at all. They're begging for you to not pay this. They're just going to scarf your CD. >> He's I think you're going to make your money on this one. I think you're going to It's the It's the $250,000 loan you take after this one.

>> Um >> I think based on my math and everything, the market looks like it's going to stay where it's at for at least two years.

>> And uh I'm planning on being able to pay this note off uh the third year.

I think there's no chance. >> As long as the market doesn't go 50% less than what it is right now, I should be able to get it done in three years.

>> Okay. >> I would get it done in one year. And here's why. The the only reason Dave and I have a job is because people like you say, "If this is if this scheme I'm running just hangs on for three more years, I'm going to be all right." And it doesn't.

>> Right. >> That's the problem. >> Right. So, um,

would you have done this if you just cashed out your CD and used your money?

>> Um, yes, I believe so.

>> Okay. If you're going to play make a play like this, you should do it with real money, not borrowed money. Okay, number one. Number two, what year in business school are you? First, second, third, fourth. >> Um, I will be a I'm between my sophomore

and junior year. >> Okay. I want you to start doing some reading on commodities because beef is a commodity, okay? And

there's one thing that drives beef

prices. Supply and demand.

That's all. And if there's a shortage of

beef, the prices run up.

>> If there's an over supply versus the demand, the prices go down. So your math

was a wild guess. That's what your math was. So

anybody that's playing commodities, 100% of the time, you're guessing about what

the future is going to do. The track record, the history of it on beef, like

a lot of commodities, has gone up. But another commodity that you could study the volatility of if you want to test my my basic theory of economics here is

oil. Look at the barrel of oil and see what it's done.

Okay? It's up and down, up and down. Up and down based based on guess what?

Whether the Middle East turns the spot on or off. Whether the local domestic

policy for drill baby drill >> turns the spot on or off. If the spets are off, oil prices go through the roof and then so does the gas pump after that. If the spets are wide open, oil prices drop through the floor.

Okay? Has nothing to do with the inherent value of oil. It's the shortage

or the over supply versus demand. And that's the game you're playing. Meaning that from a business perspective or a

investment perspective, you are gambling. You are rolling the dice.

Because you are in the world of beef, because you grew up in it, because you know something about the actual cattle,

you have talked yourself into believing that you can predict a commodity's price. That is unbelievably dangerous

and it will end in your failure eventually if you keep doing this. So,

the next time you get ready to make a gamble and you're going to put $100,000

on red or $100,000 on black,

make sure it's your money. So, when you lose it, at least it's just your money that's gone. If it goes up, it was your

money that went up. If you're going to play this game, play it with cash, son.

But I wouldn't play it. I wouldn't play it at the level you're playing it. I wouldn't do it at 20 years old, period.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

gang. If you like what you hear, we could use your help. You are our best marketing plan. You're probably close to our only one, but yeah, click the subscribe button, the follow button. It helps with the algorithm big time and it causes the show to be pushed out over the various platforms in front of people who didn't know we were here previous because you liked it or you subscribed it or you followed it or you uh better than that you shared it. Tell people about us.

Click the share button or cut the link and send it to somebody or just tell people about us. Either one. We appreciate you. Thank you for that. The uh listenership viewership of this this um Ramsay show thing has exploded in the

past five years. The numbers are crazy.

Thank you so much. We appreciate you.

Steve is with us in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hi, Steve. Welcome to the show. >> Thank you, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. >> I am 78 years old, retired, divorced,

and have no debt. I have 300,000 in a

Roth IRA, all in mutual funds, 100,000

in a traditional IRA, all in mutual funds, 1.2 2 million in an inherited IRA

in individual stocks, 3.7 million in a

brokerage account in individual stocks, about a 100,000 in cash, giving me a net

worth of about 5.4 million.

>> Way to go. >> My issue today is that in that brokerage, the taxable brokerage account, I have stock in one company with a value of 1.8 million, which represents 34% of my net worth. It's

continuing to grow and the outlook is good. My tax basis on that stock is

$58,000 which means it's all subject to

capital gains and I absolutely hate

paying capital gains tax. >> I don't blame you. >> What would you do?

>> Wow.

Uh did you inherit any of this? You said an inherited IRA was 1.2.

>> You have the rest of it other than that?

>> No. Well, I I inherited uh

>> 250,000 in cash, put it in stocks. I've

taken 450 in RMDs and it's still worth

1.2. >> Yeah. Wow.

>> The rest of it were just investments throughout. >> You've done amazing, Steve. No one can question. >> Extremely lucky. >> Well, yeah, you were lucky. You were blessed and you were smart and you were working and you were saving money while everybody else was spending it. So, I'm proud of you. Good work. Um, well, I

think your analysis, and I don't know what your background is, but it's excellent. Your analysis is excellent.

Um, one-third of your net worth is tied up in one single company, and as it goes, so goes your net worth. That's scary.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That that's um standing on one leg and somebody's kicking at your knee. I I I can add that I had some of that same stock in my inherited RA about a half

million and sold that because of the percentage getting up. But everything >> is in my taxable now in my >> Well, so here's the thing. You're going to trade some taxes for some safety.

Diversification equals safety.

Or you're going to take the risk

>> because you don't want to pay the taxes.

It's a simple formula. Yeah. I mean, you you know, there's no way around it. You're going to pay the taxes if you liquidate this cuz there's nothing. It's not in any kind of a protected account.

Uh there's nothing you can do a roll on it. There's nothing like that. You just have are just going to take the hit. Um I uh you know, I I would not do where

the I would not do enough where the taxes activate me above 15. Uh had come,

your income may already be over 400k, though, is it? >> No. No, it's actually not. Uh my taxable

income this year is basically going to be RMD from that. And you know, I'm I'm expecting about 160,000 taxable income this year. >> Okay. All right. Well, if I remember correctly, and I'm trying to pull up a cheat sheet because I can't I don't have it. Um the uh the max on on the capital

gains is 400 or somewhere right around there. If they had moved it up, it was 400 before you get kicked. Have you looked that up yet?

I I I I plugged in uh oh just

arbitrarily about $600,000 uh capital gain in that and it came out to about uh 25% federal and state tax I

would pay >> that well that okay because if you go above 400 it goes from 15 to 20 on

federal and I don't know what your state has but it must be five apparently.

>> I'm not sure. So, if you keep it under 400 and you rolled 400 inside of keep your total income under 400 or whatever the number is. I'm not a tax guy obviously, but I I'm going to move at up to the 400 mark, the 340,000 or whatever

I can move um or 240,000, whatever I can

move to not get above 400. And I'm going to start gradually moving this at 15%

because I don't like the risk of the lack of diversification.

you you know you it's painful to rebalance your accounts, but you you you're gonna take the risk if you don't

and you're you're looking at that company going um I'm really really like you

if I cuz I'm I'm going to I'm going to be over there eating in their lunchroom seeing how people are doing.

I've heard you ask before if someone would uh if their life would change, if maybe they lost certain amount of money or whatever. >> Yeah. >> And uh if I >> Yeah. If you lo if you lost 1.8 million, you would feel that. Yeah.

>> So >> I don't think you're going to lose it all. It just could go in half.

>> Um >> Yeah. Well, Steve, I've got Steve I got I just get itchy because I grew up in Houston when Enron went away and I had friends and family that worked at Enron and it man that just makes me nervous or just thinking about what Tesla was a year ago versus what it is right now.

Everyone can. It's just so easy to think, h this one's got a good upside to it. And man, my my my lived experiences sometimes these things are just a vapor, you know. >> I understand. I know nothing's for sure.

I don't know what it do you any good to know the company that I've >> No, >> no, because it doesn't matter. I want to It sounds like I'm trashing just that individual company and I'm not. I'm trashing the last diversification.

>> Yeah. >> And so, um, yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I'm I'm going to start systematically moving out of this. I'm not going to panic and pay the over 20%. Um, see, are

you married filing jointly or sing? You said single, didn't you? >> Single. Divorce, single. >> Okay. You got I just pulled it up while we were talking because I didn't know it's up to 566,000 now. >> Okay. That you can move. And so if you got 160, that leaves you uh 400 that you

could move a year and still not be at except at 15%.

>> Yeah. Yeah, >> cuz you got a $58,000 basis. So, it's pure gain basically, >> right? >> So, yeah, I'm going to I'm going to start moving about 400,000 a year uh over and paying the 15%. And the 15% is

my is not just tax, it's the cost of

safety due to diversification versus lack of diversification. And that's the way I'm going to look at it. I don't want to be that deep into one company.

And um so, good question though. Wow.

Congratulations still. I mean, you've done a lot of obviously very smart things and at 78 you're calling to ask that question. Uh, that's a pretty technical ticky tacky question and it it

shows you really know what the flip you're doing. Congratulations. Very neat. Very neat.

>> That also shows to all the 26-year-old

um George calls them the Instagram bros.

It's just dedicated time. It's just time. Small amount over time.

>> Yeah. >> Bought that at 56k and it's 1.8 million.

That is just getting in early and just set it and forget it. Just go slow.

>> Yeah. I mean, there's not a um I can't think of a publicly traded company that's a household name. Well, I don't know when he bought it at 58. That's the other thing.

It would give you that in a short period of time, >> right? >> It's not going to go to 1.8 in a short period of time. I know there's not one on the big board on the New York Stock Exchange. There's not one >> unless you had a friend who worked at Nvidia the day of or something.

I don't know if you could get in on that one. >> You know, you were your wife was in Congress or something. >> There you go. >> That'd be helpful.

But yeah, that kind of stuff. But yeah, the um that it's the only way you're going to I don't know of I don't know of a stock that's done that.

And the lack of diversification is one of the reasons. All of the data,

even though Steve has done incredibly well, and I do congratulate him. All the data for the rest of us says we buy mutual funds because there's 90 to 200 different stocks in the average mutual fund. If you had 1.8 8 million and 9,200 stocks, you'd be perfectly safe compared to you've bet 34% of a $5 million net

worth on one singular company's behaviors.

They can make the decision to do anything stupid and suddenly you could have a Budlight moment >> in in half. Yeah. >> I mean, it could be >> Tesla moment or any any Cracker Barrel moment right now. Like any of them. >> You can see the stock just nose dive.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You can have all that. And I don't I don't I don't want that. I don't have control over that. So, I'm not putting my money in that

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Dr.

John Deloney, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Anna is with us in Utah. Hi, Anna. How are you?

>> Good. How are you there, Nick? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes. So, um, my husband and I were 35 years old. We we both hold master's degree, master's degrees. I work um part-time. We've got littles and we're in our second home that we've owned. And I've I've found a lot in my dream area

um to build on. Um, but it's very pricey

and not not where we'd want for a mortgage. It'd make it a high mortgage.

And I wondered if there's there's any time it'd be appropriate. We we both make good money. Um to my parents have offered to help us out with about 10000,000 to make it more of an affordable mortgage. Um anytime that

that'd be appropriate to take that kind of money or or how >> Yeah. My husband I mean just my husband disagrees and doesn't think that that that we should do that. So does that make sense my question that you should not take the gift from your parents or you should not buy the lot?

>> Um I mean both. It would require taking the gift from my parents to buy the lot.

>> But he doesn't want to buy the lot.

>> He doesn't want to take the money from my parents, so therefore not do the lot.

But I think >> What's the lot cost?

>> 425. Really expensive lot.

It's in a really nice area. So I I think

it's a good opportunity. I don't want to lose it. And my parents, it wouldn't be a loan. But I think that we >> I think you told me three times in indirectly, you can't afford it.

Yes. >> The what the words you're using say it's I I can't chew this amount of food if I put it all in my mouth.

>> Yeah. I mean with if we did do it, it'd be about a you know close to 50% of our income for the mortgage. So >> you got lot fever, girl.

>> You need to take a cold shower.

>> You also have not wanting to be in the

life you live in right now fever.

>> Yeah. You you cannot afford to live that in that place. you don't make enough money.

>> What's a $100,000 loan from your parents or a gift, whatever you want to call it, what's that going to actually cost you?

>> Like emotionally or >> Yeah. >> Yeah. What kind of strings are attached? >> Yeah, that >> I have no problem somebody getting a big gift from their parents. I think it's amazing and I hope I can do that with my kids, but I'm going to have to make sure in my spirit there's no strings attached to it when I give it.

>> Like, >> yeah, I think that's my husband's concern that it'd be It's based on the track record. He didn't just dream this concern up. >> Right. >> So, I'm asking you, what what are the strings?

>> Um, not a lot of strings, but I mean, just Yeah. I think he'd just feel

uncomfortable and just normal.

>> Are you an only child?

>> No. >> Are you the oldest daughter?

>> The only daughter. >> The youngest. >> The youngest daughter. Are you the only daughter?

>> No. Cuz I'm confused about why your parents want to participate in helping you be broke

>> to live this to live your little dream to live your dream that you can't afford >> cuz you told me six times you can't afford this. I mean indirectly you know in your heart your brain is your brain is telling you you can't afford it.

>> Yeah. >> I'm more interested >> time and if times change >> Yeah. >> and that kind of mortgage wouldn't be as crazy in a few years. >> Well then get it then. We'll talk about it then. But right now it's cray cray.

>> I I'm worried about what it is about your life. You've you both got the schooling that you wanted. You have you have the family that you wanted. What is it about that life that you're not at peace with?

>> Um we're currently the the home we're in is in a dream area. Wonderful area. It's the same place the lot is at, but it's an older home and it's given us a lot of problems including termites which has been kind of traumatic for me. We've gotten those taken care of.

So, I don't know if that's a Yeah.

>> So, what is your home? What is your home? >> Might have been a >> Currently, we think we could make 600 off it. >> You could make 600 off of it. Okay. And the lot is 425.

>> Sorry, that wouldn't be made. >> I'm sorry. >> 425. That's without the build. So, >> I know. I know. And and the uh and and the 100th gift. And uh you're you have

600 equity or the price would be 600?

>> The price. Uhhuh.

>> Okay. How is a house in the same neighborhood as a $425,000 lot only selling for $600,000?

It ought to be amazing. >> I mean, that's maybe we could get more.

That's just it's >> Where did you get 600? >> The area the area has no um that was not

appraised, but that's kind of what comparisons to around the area have been. >> Okay. All right. Cuz if you buy a lot,

let me tell you, if you buy a lot for 400, it's the >> the rule of thumb in building is is the lot should be around 20% of the total >> when you're done. >> Okay. >> All right. And and so that means you're building a $2 million house

and you don't have that kind of money, do you? What do what's your income?

>> About 200.

>> Yeah. You don't have that kind of money.

And um >> I could work full-time.

Not what I want to do with the little right now. >> Oh, I don't want >> It's not worth it. >> It's not worth it. I mean, you could kill termites.

You can't kill a big mortgage. >> That's why I keep I I don't think this is the house. I think this is something about you not being in the skin you're in. >> Yeah.

>> Well, it's the scarcity. I mean, it's on the mountain. There's no more lots around here. Everything's built out here.

You have to go out west if you want to. >> Yeah. But somebody's going to buy that lot and build on it. and then their their nest egg is going to need to move somewhere.

They're going to have grandkids and they're going to that house will come up on the market.

>> It's Listen, there's there's plenty of lots and there's plenty of mountains and there's the rest of your life to figure that out. Um yeah,

>> Dave Dave, I hear this. >> Listen, I I am a spender and I love real estate and I'm running through my head the number of times I have sounded like her. I I'm telling you, man, she's about to do something. >> I have gotten I get the fever for something and I get like a dog on a bone and I'm I'm just like a chasing a rabbit

running through the forest looking. I'm going to I'm going to run this thing down and I can hear that because I do

it. I can I have to catch myself and go, "Wait a minute. This is stupid." I mean, I I can tell I can point to you a lot down by our lakehouse that I chased like this. And it is a very unique property.

It's on a peninsula and you own the whole peninsula. >> Yeah.

lake." And so I, you know, I I that's a that's a 10-year story I just did right there. >> Yeah. >> But I I had I had the Jones for that stupid lot. >> Yeah. >> It's like I I can do I can totally relate to you. Take a cold shower. Don't buy the lot. You can't afford it.

>> And you there's something wrong about the way you're approaching this. It John's hearing it in your voice and your words. I am too. And you you're willing

to sacrifice even dealing with your parents to get it. That's how bad you want this. Even you've done the math like okay what if I gave up a core value which is staying home with my kids and I gave up that for this like piece of dirt. >> Yeah there's something on the on on the grass is greener in in your spirit right now. >> Godliness with contentment is great gain

and when I have violated that and I have I just told you a story when I was doing I didn't end up with a lot but I swear to I think God just literally kept me from getting >> I walked out of guitar the other night with my hands in my pockets. >> Stupidity. Yeah. I didn't have good spirit. That's right. >> Yeah. And I just Man, it's like going to an auction, >> man. >> Keep flicking your ear. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

>> Touching your nose.

It's bad, y'all. Oh, we all got it. You know we do.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

Blake is in Arizona. Hey Blake, how are you?

>> Great, thanks. >> How can we help?

>> So background is I'm 62, my wife is 51.

Um, we do not currently have any debt.

Our home is paid for. Uh, I recently

retired and and started taking social security after I was let go from my job after 34 years. And, um, we have, um, I

I still have my 401k just sitting left with my former employer. I have about 1.1 million in that and another 100,000

in a Roth. We have um approximately

$500,000 in a high yield money market earning

about 3.5%.

We want to know it's really not, you

know, it's safe, but it's not returning the kind of money that we really need to really don't uh we're living on uh

pretty much below our means.

um my social security and then I also

picked up a part-time job working at a local golf course just just for for something more to do. Um that covers our expenses. We're looking we're we're wondering what would be best to do with that uh approximately $500,000

for us for the future. And then also we'd like to start uh putting we have a new baby grandchild and we'd like to start saving for them. What what would you recommend?

>> Wow. Uh what' you used to earn at your other position?

>> Um I varied uh in income. Um at the last

when I was let go, I made a little over $100,000. >> Okay. All right. The 1.1 million is in traditional or Roth?

>> Uh it's in traditional. Okay.

>> It's in a Fidelity uh like a target date

fund. >> Okay. All right. Um,

I would have you sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and there's a couple of things in this portfolio I want to work on and I'll give you the background on what and why. Okay. Um, a Smart Vster

Pro is is a network of people that are in the business. We don't do investing at Ramsey, but we endorse these folks.

We embrace them and they uh are aligned

with the teaching that we give. So, you're going to hear things that sound a lot like Ramsay when you sit down with one of them. The first thing is you never invest anything without understanding it yourself. You've done a very good job getting to this point.

Congratulations.

Uh you're you're almost multi-millionaires and you're definitely millionaires and it's pretty incred Well, you are multimillionaires because your house is worth >> um enough to get you over the 2 million mark. So net worthwise. So good.

Congratulations. You're in really, really, really good shape. Um I got two things here. One, we want to get the 500 invested, which is your question. The second thing is I want to begin to think about how to move that 1.1 gradually to Roth and pay some taxes on it. Uh because at 72 you're going to be facing which is going to be here in a heartbeat uh only 11 years. You're going to be facing what's called RMDs, required minimum distributions on that.

>> And uh I want to keep that from happening. And if you die with the whole thing intact, uh the entire account of course is taxable in an inherited IRA

uh for your kids. And by then it'll be $3 million, >> okay? >> Because you're not going to die anytime soon. And it'll it'll double and double again, double again. Might be five or $6 million even. And so if it's in a Roth, if we can get it into a Roth gradually in the next 11 years before you get to RMDs, A, you don't have RMDs. B, your kids will never pay taxes on it. C you'll never pay taxes on it. if you decide to use some of it for something.

So, if it is invested and I would probably reset the investments inside of there today uh from target date into some quality long track record growth

stock mutual funds. I invest inside my retirement and I've recommended for 30 years people do that in growth growth and income aggressive growth and international. I do not do target

um because I don't believe because I'm 64. from getting ready to be 65, a touch older than you. Uh, and I this the data

tells us that if at your age and my age, if we're in good shape, healthy, right, which you are right now, I guess, and I am too. You didn't tell me otherwise, that we have a high likelihood of making it into our 90s statistically. And so that's still 30 years you've got to outpace inflation. And that target date is going to dumb down your returns as you get a little bit older.

Uh, and there's no need to do that because you don't need you you can handle the little bit of risk that a good quality investment portfolio represents. So, I'm gonna move you away from target date. I'm going to move you towards Roth with the 1.1. That's two things.

All of this, as you understand it, don't do it cuz I said do it. But, I'm really happy at right now that all of my retirement accounts are Roth for those reasons. I don't have RMD. I won't ever have any taxes on it.

inherited IRA. >> How how are you are are am I able to

convert the traditional?

>> You're going to pay taxes when you do. You're going to pay taxes on the amount you convert every year. That's why you're going to want to do it in stages to keep bracket creep from hitting you so hard >> because it's all ordinary income.

There's no capital gains available on.

Now, moving on to the 500, which was your original question, >> which is a good question, too. You've done a great job. I just want to say it over and over. These are minor tweaks, but they'll help you to the tune of millions of dollars over the next two decades. Um, the 500, >> that's what we're looking for. >> Yeah, the 500 uh the 500 obviously you

do need to get that invested sitting there in a stupid high yield. It's crazy. It needs to get you lost 50 grand last year or 60 grand by sitting there and you you could that would have been nice to have around. So, um >> yeah, don't tell my wife that. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's missed what the market did versus what you did. You know, that's what you're missing. Opportunity cost, >> right? So the uh what you're going to do there is look for what's called a low turnover mutual fund. So inside the

mutual fund there's 90 to 200 stocks. If they sell almost none of them low turnover of the stocks, it does not activate any taxable gain or very little

taxable gain unless you sell it.

>> Okay. An example of that is an S&P 500.

They typically have a 3 or 4% turnover ratio, meaning 97% of the stocks sit

there and grow, but create no taxes.

It's like buying a single share of Home

Depot for 50 bucks and it goes to 70.

You don't pay any taxes on the 20 until you sell it. That's capital gains growth. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, it's like buying a rental house for 500 grand, it goes to 700 grand. You don't pay any gain capital gains tax.

You don't pay any tax on that 200 growth till you sell the house. Same thing's true in a low turnover mutual fund. So you're not going to have taxes. That's great for now. When you do have taxes and do decide to pay them, they're going to be at capital gains rate, which is 15% instead of 37%. So that's wonderful.

So low turnover growth stock mutual funds. So I use S&P 500s for a lot of

that. You can use other stuff, too. I've got another couple of million in in a different one that's not an S&P that I'm letting sit. The S&P I use it for saving up to buy real estate. But the uh um

anyway, so you're looking to learn about the low turnover mutual fund because it grows with no taxation unless you pull it out.

>> Okay? >> And and you're going to get marketplace growth because S&P 500 is going to be, >> you know, traditionally it's been 11 12% a year >> uh has been the rate of returns. So um in the last two years it was over 20%.

It's not going to be that forever. That's not it's an offbeat thing, but uh so low turnover mutual funds uh that

keeps you from paying taxes on it as it grows unless you pull it out. If you leave it alone a year and you do pull it out, it's only going to be at capital at capital gains rate, not an ordinary income rate. So smart. All of this to say, learn all that again because you don't want to learn it from some guy on the dad gum podcast.

Um you want to sit down, learn about this yourself. It's millions of dollars. It's matters. So you're smart to ask the questions.

Their job is to teach you what is possible and then you choose among the

things that are possible and that'll get you there. But that little those two little tweaks right there in the next two decades are probably $4 million,

maybe more in in in what happens to your stuff versus target regular investments versus target date. um Roth versus

traditional and low turnover versus high yield. Uh and that those rates of return and that that amount of money, that's what it's going to do. And a good thing to keep in mind if you're looking at this stuff, folks, is it's fun to do the math real quick. Okay, he's sitting on basically $2 million. If it's growing at 10% every seven years, it's going to double. He's 61. At 68, he's going to

have 4 million. At 75,

he's going to have 8 million. At 82, he's going to have 16 million and he's very likely to get there statistically from an actuarial table, which is the death rate table thing, okay, for life insurance policies. So once you make it up to into your 60s and you're healthy, you're not going to die at 76. Usually you 76 is your average male death rate, but that includes infant mortality, teenage death, and so on. So you can't run your numbers based on that anymore once you get to be old like me and him.

[Music]

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[Music]

Dr. Dr. John Deloney has had

three number one bestsellers.

Two of them big, hairy, nice hardback books. John, none of them are as pretty as this. They're not as pretty or And

none of them are as personally important

to a guy that struggles with being on time as the 2026 Ramsay goal planner.

>> Yeah, you have a goal and a planner.

Maybe you can be on time. >> But if you write >> I did see the thing you did on Instagram. That's pretty funny. If you co-write a book with Rachel Cruz and Jade Warshaw, it's going to the the beauty will win out over whatever madness I was trying to put.

>> I got to tell you, the um I the the Ramsay team, >> they're unbelievable. >> Uh the design team, yeah, the Ramsey gold planner is a big deal. Everybody gets them every year and they always sell out. Uh we only do about 10,000 of them, but they they sell out like immediately here in the fall.

So, this is 2026.

creatives. We kind of just turn the creatives loose and go have fun, >> right? >> This is like their sandbox. >> And usually I'm like, "Yeah, I want to see it." And they say, "You're not allowed to see this one." >> Yeah.

And uh you're not allowed to touch this, John. Nope. >> Dave, you can't even say anything about how much it costs cuz it costs a lot to produce the thing. >> It's a beautiful piece, though.

The weird thing is we did cut the price.

>> We do. We we sell it early and we do cut the price significantly. And I want to shout out everybody who's fighting the system and still writes things down with

pen and paper. Got to tell you, >> I love it. I love it. >> My wife and I in the morning is one of the things she says, "Let's do calendars, >> which is one of the things we stay aligned on our money. We stay aligned on our time." >> Oh, that's romance talk in my house.

>> Then we stay aligned. Yeah.

>> So, um >> yeah, we we this morning she said, "Let's do calendars." Let me tell you what she gets out old school.

>> That's what my wife does. this little black thing with a little flip on it and it flips it open. It's got She's It's all written down. Yep. >> And uh you know what? It doesn't get deleted. >> Nope. >> Unless you mark through it. >> There's no AI going through it.

>> $35.97 if you want to pre-order. It's the best deal you're going to get cuz that we paid a lot to produce these. So

yeah, we did Jade Rachel and Deloney uh monthly content from them as you go through your months and planning. If you grab it before Labor Day, it's just $35.97. lowest gut price. Even Black Friday pricing won't beat this.

ramseysolutions.com/store.

If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. I got to tell you, we put out a lot of nice products. I'm really, really proud of this product. Uh the people that get it always love it. Um

it's a lot and you got it. It's all there. It walks you through lessons from Rachel, from Jade, and from Dr. Deloney

as you're going through. And you can lay out your spiritual year. You can lay out your physical year, you can lay out your time. It's all in there. And it is an incredible, incredibly well-designed tool. And again, it's a beautiful, beautiful piece of work. So, all the way around. Eric is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi,

Eric. What's up?

>> Hi, good afternoon everyone. So, I am a third-year medical student and I've talked to a lot of physicians who have advised me not to worry about loans because they'll easily be paid off when you're earning a physician salary down the line. >> Sure. Easily.

>> Med students never call.

>> That's a long ways away.

>> New residents never call into the show, Eric. Ever panicking. So, you're you're

>> nothing. Go ahead. Go ahead, Eric.

Um, so I also recently got married about eight, nine months ago, and I want to know the best way for my wife and I to be proactive about our loans starting now and manage slash know how much we

should be putting aside for savings for a house, investing in our Roths at this time. >> I love your question. It's a very wise question to say, I'm getting ready to come into some money. >> What is the smart thing to do with it?

I've worked really, really hard to get to this point. What is how can I be the smartest and get the most traction with all this work I put in because you've worked your tail off to get here.

Congratulations, sir.

>> So, very good question. All right. All all snarkiness aside, I'm still going to tell you the truth. The first rule is this. I live in Nashville,

okay? And um so I know the country music

folk. I grew up in Nashville. I know country music folk, okay? And I know all of them that almost made it too. And um

I also speak to NFL rookie camps and

explain to the young guys that NFL stands for not for long.

They have the average NFL career is 3.8 years and they think they're rich. Okay.

So, there's only one thing dumber than a

country music artist who's getting ready to lose everything because of bad financial advice or a new NFL star that's getting ready to lose everything.

And that's your fellow doctors giving you financial advice.

They are the world's worst with money.

35 years I've been doing this, I am constantly amazed at how the typical MD

is absolutely stupid with money. It

blows my mind. Now, there's exceptions.

There's exceptions. So, that's rule number one. Don't listen to these guys that have advice. Now, rule number two, uh you're very smart to ask advice and to learn things from several different sources.

And you use that wonderful brain God has given you cuz dumb people don't get this far in medical school. Um even though I just made fun of them for their financial stuff, but they're not dumb. Okay? Um but the you don't get that far.

And so, use that brain of yours to learn. Do not put money in stuff you don't understand and keep asking a thousand questions like the one you just asked for the next 10 years and you will become very very wealthy. So you are on the right track in the multitude of counsel there is safety the Bible says and so you keep gathering and learning and learning and don't do everything Dave Ramsey says you go learn about it for yourself.

did a great job becoming very wealthy very quickly um one of the things we coached them to do is to avoid what we

call doc itis when you come out of med school. So you have a um you're in the

top 1% of the population in emotional

maturity. One measure of emotional maturity is the ability to delay pleasure. You have while all of your friends from high school have been out playing beer pong, you've been going to class and reading books and for for a decade longer than they have to get to where you are. And so you've been holding your breath much longer than the typical person walking around listening to this conversation right now.

You've been delaying pleasure to get to a greater good. So you know how to accept pain to get to a greater good. You know how to pay a price to win. Otherwise, you wouldn't be where you are.

You don't graduate med school unless you get that concept from a psychological emotional standpoint.

>> Yes. It's a huge compliment.

>> Life doesn't necessarily have that which sometimes can create a clash. But I I I I agree. Yes, I understand that.

>> Yeah. So when you get out, the typical doc has been holding their breath for a decade longer than everybody else. And when they exhale, it looks like this. A new house, an investment account, and a BMW.

But and the student loans are just sitting there looking at them because they've been waiting so long to enjoy this income that the first thing they do is go enjoy it. And I'm going to beg you to do one thing. And that's continue to hold your breath for 18 more months after you get out and get your you pass your bars, you take the big job, you take the signing bonus, and you clear the 200k as fast as you possibly can.

keep living like a broke resident for a short period of time and clear the debt cuz then you've got $200 to $800,000 a

year or whatever your income is going to be for the rest of your life with no monkey on your back and you can go you can become wealthy so quickly. But if you kick the can down the road on this 200k like those docs are suggesting, you're going to be in debt the rest of your life and you're going to suck at money and you're going to struggle. So, I would live like a resident, like you were broke, and clear this up as fast as you can.

>> And with your marriage income, brother, I would um invest not in Roth, not in

real estate. I would invest in you right now. Can you and your new wife, can you all get through the rest of this year and next year before you start getting paid? Can you get through the the tuition? Can you all cash flow that?

>> So, she makes she was making around 80k

as a registered nurse. Um and then we

were able to chip about 40,000 off.

>> Amazing. >> Yeah. So we got >> First goal is no more debt though.

>> First goal is no first goal first goal is no more debt.

>> Second goal is chip away at it.

>> So the problem was she went back to nurse practitioner school as well in January. >> Oh. >> So how much is she going to owe?

>> So she doesn't owe anything. Her father had a 529 for her. So we don't have any loans on her part. Excellent.

>> Excellent. Okay. >> You guys are going to be making 600 grand. >> Yeah. Y'all are going to be doing well.

>> This is so great.

>> Please pay off the debt as fast as you can. As fast as you can. >> No investments, no purchases. Live like broke college students till all the debt is cleared. >> 18 more months. Dude, >> both of you pass your bars. Don't suffer from docitis.

[Music]

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[Music]

Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Refi? If you've

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Not in all states.

>> All right. Today's question comes from Felix in Pennsylvania. Felix writes, "I'm a I am a millennial and multiple families that I know who have children are selling their houses to live in RVs because they want to get out of debt.

They are basically homeless. What is going on with my generation?"

I don't think we can cover that in this podcast. We don't have enough time. I know debt is to be avoided, but is this trend healthy or is it g is is gazelle

intensity going too far?

It's a good question.

>> I don't think that's gazelle intensity.

I think that is um gazelle intensity is being very intense and sacrificing to get to a a future

goal goal. Um

I've done this show for 35 years. I've never told someone to sell their home and live in an RV.

>> I think that's a part of our the the hack virus that we live in as a culture.

>> Yeah. But that's not you and I. I mean it's not Ramsay advice and Ramsey advice is gazelle intensity. So I invented that phrase. So no one used that phrase before me, right? >> So that's um but is this is this uh a a

segment of a

generation that feels hopeless and stuck

and so they resort to extreme measures that are over the pale to try to get unstuck. Yeah, that would be true.

>> Yeah. or people have bought way too much house, way too much car, and they're just hitting control altdelete on their life. Or they're they grew up playing video games and they're just hitting reset on the Nintendo and starting over.

But yeah, I I I I think it's one of those um not an eitheror question here.

>> It's not the right move, >> right? >> Agreed. >> But getting out of debt is very important. >> Yeah. Now, selling your home, moving into an apartment, that might work.

>> Absolutely. >> I've done that. >> I sold my house and moved into a dorm for crying out loud. Yeah, we've been there. I've been there. >> I But I, you know, I always answer questions the way I would answer them, the way, you know, what would I do if I was in the shoes and there's never a moment in my life that I would live in an RV.

Um, because I want my wife to live with me and she wouldn't live there. So, um,

it's not it's not something it's not a dream of ours at all. It's more like a nightmare. And, uh, we would be like Cousin Eddie. And so, um, no, we don't

we don't need to do that. The Ramsies don't. So, I don't tell other people they need to do it. Uh, I have had people do some wild things. I remember about gosh, it's it's a long time ago, a couple decades ago, a guy in uh in Birmingham sold his home and um he

called me up and told me he bought a trailer and I'm like, "Oh god, that why'd you buy something going down in value?" He goes, "Dave, paid $1,000 for it. >> You moved into a $1,000 mobile home.

You might be a redneck if my god, son.

Really?" And he's like, "Yeah." And he was making like serious money. And he goes, "But in two years, I'm going to pay cash for a house, and that's the price we're going to pay." And we're willing to do that. I'm like, "Okay, you're willing to do something I'm not willing to do." >> So I I can I can admire you for that, but I can't make that the program.

>> Sure. >> It's not what I teach. >> Yes. >> And so, uh, and he did he saved up like 300,000 bucks or something in the first in two years and went bought a house for cash. >> It's amazing. >> And, uh, but I I don't I don't see you moving Sheila into a single wide. Nope.

Nope. >> So, um here here's the thing. When he asks a question, um what's going on with my generation? There is a challenge. You

can call it resilience. You can be whatever discipline over time, doing a hard thing

with repetition, whether it's diet, whether it is working on relationships, whether it is getting out of debt. Um I would say there is a generic allergy in our culture to discomfort over 24 to 36

months. People don't mind doing something painful right this second and

um but but they don't want to stick to a

hard thing over time and we've been told you don't have to and actually we're a little sliver of history where there is some hacks around some stuff and so

everyone's looking for a way to do the craziest thing as painfree as possible

um and I so I think if you ask me that question your culture doesn't want to live within their means and and take what that means which is okay. We can't live in Manhattan doing this edit editor job that we saw on Instagram. We're going to have to live in Kansas or in Nebraska where we can afford to live and do a job that maybe isn't our quote unquote passion job. Or if you found yourself way way in debt to sell the

cars and put two kids in in car seats in a Corolla, which is uncomfortable, but it's doable, and take three years to

work with intensity, focus intensity over time and be uncomfortable for that long. That to me is the biggest allergy I think we have culturally.

>> Yeah. I remember distinctly

uh Millie Ramsey driving a um Chevy when

she's 19 years old. >> Mhm. >> Driving a Chevy 2, which is like the

first version of a Chevet kind of thing.

Um it had a two doors. It had a small little four-cylinder in it. Gas was $12 12 cents a gallon. And uh you could get to the top of the road above the gas station and run out of gas and coast down to the gas station. And we did.

>> Yeah. >> And uh I would say, "Mom, when are we getting an air conditioner for the car?" And she said, "We have a 240 air conditioner. Roll down two windows. We're going 40." Uh and so that they paid a price.

>> That's right. >> That generation paid a price to uh live.

They lived like that for a long time before they saw prosperity.

>> Right. Um, and then I saw that and so

but you know I I was telling somebody the other day they were asking me about Gen Z's because we've got so many Gen Z's here at Ramsey and millennials. I I would say out of our 1100 those two generations represent probably 700 people maybe maybe 600 some something like that. The vast majority of the people work in this building fall in that. And I think they're the two best generations I've run into in a long time for wealth building and for a lot of things.

And the reason is is they grew up with a magic wand in their hand.

anything's possible, >> right? >> And so that is a wonderful trait of this generation. What they don't have is zero

patience, >> right? Or >> when you push a button, crap shows up on your porch that day.

>> That day. >> I mean, you know, you didn't have to walk uphill both ways in the snow to go buy some toilet paper. It shows up on your porch, you know, and so there's no patience. I'm not going to wait for anything. I'm not going to struggle for anything. I want it right now. It's a microwave, not a crockpot. Don't talk to me about cooking something over the whole weekend. You don't cook stuff overnight. You cook it and we eat it right now. >> Right. And uh if they have a fallacy,

it's that and it relates to this question. >> Yes. Exactly. And so I I would tell you yes, get out of debt. And I Well, I think with when it comes to pushing a button, I think the friction between what I want and what I can get is is

been so intentionally dissolved. Yep.

that it is untethered us from reality.

That water comes from somewhere. That cow came from some farm somewhere.

>> It's just magic. >> It's magic. And if the longer you live in magic land, um, the more divorced from reality you get. And that's what companies want, right? They don't want you tethered to reality. >> I'm going to hold an $1,100 magic wand in my hand and criti criticize capitalism. >> I'm going to give one to I'm going to give it an 11,000 I mean $1,100 computer

to a six-year-old, right? Cuz you quote unquote need one. It's ma. It's madness.

But we're untethered from reality.

>> Yeah. Right. But it and it's it is there's good parts to it. Obviously, >> there's amazing parts to it. >> I think the the possibility thinking to

quote a guy from three generations ago, Dr. Robert Schuler, right? Possibility thinking, this generation thinks anything's possible. And when you're sitting in meetings with them dreaming up the next thing to do in business, that's about as positive a trade as you can have rather than some sourfaced boomer sitting in there going, "Well, it won't work. Can't be done. That'll never

work. Like Eeyore is in the meeting with you. >> It's a weird juosition of yes, we can do that, but I need work life balance, right? It's like, >> but I want to work from home. >> It's like the boomer is like that ain't going to work and I'm going to spend the next 80 years trying to tinker it away until it finally does work, right? >> I'm going to keep messing with this and keep messing with this and keep messing with this. Perseverance.

>> So, the allergy is like discipline over time. Perseverance. it it's going to suck for a long period of time and we're going to be stunned at how much we got done and how strong we are at the end of this thing. >> Yeah. Start it with the possibility thinking and then stir in a little patience. Just stir in some discipline and perseverance and you got a real These two generations are going to be the best generations that we ever seen on the planet.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Dr.

John Deloney, Ramsey personality and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show is my co-host today. The phone number is 888255225.

Mike's in St. Louis. Hey Mike, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh just wanted to ask uh is it a good idea to sell our house in order to get out of our consumer debt and fast forward the baby steps?

>> Okay. Um how much consumer debt do you have? >> Uh about 36,000 24 credit card, 12,000

in a car.

>> Okay. And um what's your household

income, sir?

uh household income right now. I just uh picked up another job, but currently I'd say our household income is about 4,000

or400 after taxes right now, but that should bump by about $3,000 here in the

next few months.

>> So, you're going to be making $7,000 a month in the next few months.

>> Uh I'm sorry, I'm being a little u

exaggerative, I guess.

So, let's let's let's back that down to

$6,400, $6,500 a month.

>> Okay. So, you be making $6,000 a month.

How much is your house payment?

>> Uh 1,200.

>> Okay. Right. Do you hate your house?

>> No, I don't hate it. It's very small. So, we do not hate it. No.

>> Okay. All right. No, you should not sell your house.

Your house is not the problem and it's not the solution. Okay. So, you make $6,000 a month. You have a $1,200 house

payment. At some point, you'll make six.

You don't today. I understand. But we're talking about a couple months out, right? Okay. 1,200. So, so that leaves me, you know, $4,500 to buy food and

reduce debt.

>> Okay.

>> You owe 36,000.

So, uh, if you put $2,000 a month on the

debt, you're out in 18 months.

If you put $3,000 a month, you're out in

one year.

So somewhere between one year and 18

months, depending on whether your 6,000 or your 7,000 is correct, one of those two. But somewhere between 18 one year and 18 months, you should be out of debt, then no, you don't sell your house for that reason. Instead, you live on beans and rice, rice and beans for one year to 18 months. Don't go out to eat.

Don't go on vacation. Roll up your sleeves. the two of you sit down and make your budget scream. Make your broke friends think you've joined a cult.

Get really, really serious about leaning into this debt and chop up the credit cards tonight. Light a candle and have a plastic surgery ceremony and um then let's just tear into these

cards and this debt. You guys have not been living on a plan and you've just increased your income substantially in the last year or so. And that's concluded by this next raise, right?

>> Uh, correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, >> here's the way I like to think of it, dude. If if there was a a marathon in your town, you could take an Uber to the last mile

and run the last mile. They'll give you a ribbon. They will um congratulate you

and everybody will cheer for you as you crossed the finish line. You could do that and you'd still have crossed that finish line. If you train for that thing

and you run that thing and you get all the blisters, all the pain, all the all

the stuff that comes with running it, when you cross that finish line, a you're a different person. Y'all will be a different married couple together. And you're going to be way stronger, way better shape than the person who just took the Uber to the last mile. And so selling your house right now is a hack.

And it might clear it up, but y'all will still be y'all. And so the chances y'all fall back into something is 100%. And so

I love the idea that y'all going to scratch and claw for a year, 18 months, and the the the sweetness of crossing that finish line will be such a different feeling and you'll have a different level of strength than if you just got dropped off. >> And the two of you locking arms to set a goal and attack this goal with a vengeance is huge for a young marriage.

And the deeper you cut, the faster you

get out. The more you work, the more you

make, the faster you get out. And so just look at this and say, "How much work can I do? How little can I spend?"

And look at your spouse and go, "How much work can we do? How little can we spend?" And then we'll be out that much faster. And John's right. You'll never look at a credit card the same after this. You know, it's kind of like once you get food poisoning on something, you never want to eat it again. >> I eat that thing again. Yep.

>> Ever. Like 40 years later, it still turns your stomach. You know, it's like I am never the you're just smelling it.

It's just it's the same. That's the way I feel about debt. And once you fight through this, you'll feel that way about it. John's right.

So, no, you mathematically, relationally, psychologically, spiritually do not need to sell your house. Nothing in this call says you need to sell your house. And if you needed to, I'd tell you cuz I love you and I want you to win. And uh I think you're going to win.

And I just I I can hear it's funny, John, doing this all these years. I can hear in their voice sometimes that how that they're getting ready to do it. >> Yeah. They're done.

>> This guy's He's got that thing in his voice like, "I'm going to I'm I'm I've had it." >> Yeah. >> So he's had it so bad. He want to sell his house. >> I'll sell everything.

Yeah. >> I'll do whatever. Whatever.

Mhm. >> The great Les Brown, the great motivator back in the Zig Ziggler days, used to do a whole talk on that. He was like, "When you get sick and tired of being sick and tired, >> you know, and and you finally look around, you say, "I've had it." That's

when you're about to change your life.

And that you can hear that in people's voice and their sentence structure and their tone when they're talking to us.

And uh so many years of being able to just listen to them and not see their body language, but hear it in their voice. He's uh he's got that thing. I think I I predict Mike and his sweet wife are going to be multi-millionaires and it started today. >> Today, day one.

>> So, it started three days ago when they started talking about this and we gave it a little boost today. One of the two, something like that. >> But, um yeah, when you're willing to do whatever, there is nothing that can stop you. >> Yeah.

what is the hardest way I can do

something great or do something well versus what I think I've spent the last 20 years. What's the easiest way I can get through this thing? the the neuroscience keeps coming back that when your body doesn't want to do a thing and you go do that thing anyway it the cascade of benefits is so beyond the accomplishment of that thing and at the same time we live in a culture where Dave I was looking up I was trying to find a part for the mower Hank and I were working on a mower and a riding mower that I got and right when we got it all fixed up the belt broke I just opened chat GBT and said what is the belt product number for this and it gave it to me there's no friction at call anywhere for anything anymore.

And it's like, do you want to order it here?

Now I'm getting pissed. I'm just >> Right. Here's the thing. Like I like the

idea of sitting down with my son and going to Tractor Supply and looking through it and it it took takes so much longer. And man, when that thing took off across the yard, watching him cheer, watching me cheer, like it we did a thing together. It was hard. And the benefits were beyond just replacing that belt.

And so I I like the idea of taking, okay, 18 18 months, I bet we can do it in 13 and we're gonna figure this thing out and you will have a different kind of marriage on the other side of this beyond just being out of debt. It's everything all at once. And it's amazing. >> Yeah.

When people do that stuff, they sell the knife collection. >> They sell everything.

>> They It's weird. >> And they don't talk bad about each other at the water cooler anymore. It just changes everything. >> Yeah. They they like each other cuz we're working together. Don't you mess with my wife. Don't you mess with my husband. All of a sudden, we're a team now. We're locked.

[Music]

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Abby is with us in Virginia. Hey Abby, what's up? >> Hi. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

So, I am an applying medical student this year and my family has an exchange

student and my mother informed me that

they're going to be using my 529 to pay

for our exchange students education here in America and I'm worried about how much debt I'm going to be collecting from medical school.

>> Okay. So, there's a 529 account that you thought you were going to get to use for school. How much is in it?

>> Yes, sir. >> That I don't know. My mom has never disclosed it to me.

>> Um, but she's the one who put in majority of the money and my father didn't really put in much uh of his income into it

because he was in the army.

>> Mhm. Okay.

I currently am receiving benefits from the VA to go to a university.

>> Okay. And that's for undergrad or for med school? >> Undergraduate. So it'll stop at the end of the four years that I just did.

>> All right. And what um and then you're

going to go to med school to become an MD?

>> Yes, sir. That's that's the hope.

>> When will you finish your four years?

Um, I'll finish uh this year in 2026.

>> Okay. But as far as you know, there's enough for the exchange students and exchange student and your medical. You

don't know how much is in there?

>> I don't know how much is in there. Um, my mother said ballpark. It's over 400k,

but she doesn't know. I She knows, but she won't just tell me the actual number itself. >> Okay. All right. So, I uh get to learn

something on this show. I've been doing this show for 30 years and I get to learn something brutally ever so often when I screw up an answer on the air and about 3 weeks ago I screwed up an answer on a 529 and I've gotten trashed for

screwing up the answer. So I've thoroughly learned about 529s what I didn't know in the last 3 weeks or four or so. So um here's the correct answer

because and I screwed it up before and I'm not going to this time. Uh you don't own the account, Abby. She does. She can do with it what she wants to do with it.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Uh, so would I take out loans for medical school?

>> Wait a minute. I don't know on what planet she can't help an exchange student and still have enough left for you to go to medical school out of $400,000.

>> Yeah. >> Why are you whining about this?

>> Yeah. There's like a bigger conversation to be had.

>> Why Why is it that your mother Why are you and your mother at odds?

uh because my mother uh believes that I should take out loans for medical school like she did um for her graduate

program. >> So she doesn't want to she doesn't want to use the 529 for you to go to medical school regardless of the exchange student. >> Yes, sir. But um she then told me she's going to use it for the exchange student instead of for me. And that's like where

some of the tension lies?

>> Not really. The tension just is that she doesn't want to give it to you for med school. Period.

>> Okay. >> She did pour salt in the wound and say, "But I am going to give it to this other kid." >> That's not even re, you know, it's not even family member. >> It's not you. Yeah. >> I'm not even sure she can do that, by the way, without getting penalized. But I that I don't know the answer to that and I'm not going to answer something else. I don't know the answer to.

>> So, but the uh Yeah, maybe she can. I

I've never read that you can give it to an exchange student. Um only siblings and people in the family. You could give it to your She could give it to your husband. You give it to your wife. You can give it to your uh parents. You could give it to your kids now. But I've never heard exchange student. Maybe you can though. Maybe you can. Uh it doesn't matter though. That's not the core issue. The core issue she's not going to give it to you anyway.

>> Yeah, I understand. That's fair.

>> Yeah. Why? What's her reasoning? It's like sounds like an old like frat bro like I got hazed so you get hazed. like

she should be the one saying how ruthless it was trying to pay back student loans and be a new mom and all that kind of stuff. So, I have almost a

half a million dollars in an account. I'm going to I'm going to take care of you.

>> So, um I have paid for all of my medical school applications. I'm paying for all of my flights to and from interviews at other are

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Wow.

>> So, I am paying for everything. I pay for my rent. Um I Yeah, I do pretty much

everything. I have a job.

>> Okay. There's there's something deeper here. What What's the What's the tension with you and your mom?

>> Um this exchange student has lived with us for four years trying to get an associates degree and has not yet completed it. >> I I know. Let's take the exchange. The exchange student is a symptom. They're not the problem. >> The problem is your mother and you.

>> Yeah. What is going on?

>> I honestly don't know. I appreciate my mom. Really? You don't know? Really?

>> I I genuinely don't know. I have a feeling it's because she went through this whole process without any help from her parents and expects me to do the same. >> Well, I can tell you I went through some things all by myself without my parents help. And I'm making dang sure that my son doesn't do that.

>> And there's some things that I had to do that were really hard that I'm making sure he does because it because it's appropriate. But, >> okay. Okay. Number one, let's let's sab let's set this aside. The exchange student is not causing you to go to med

school with student loans. Your mother is. She has the money to do both.

>> Okay? So, take the exchange student out of the conversation completely.

And then, um, if I were in your shoes,

you're not going to like this, but I simply wouldn't go to med school. I don't think you can afford to go. She's not willing to help you. And I'm not going to tell you to go $250,000 in debt to go be an MD.

not in the current medical climate. Um, I think it's financial suicide. I know it's your dream and it's your agame and it's what you've been wanting to do your whole life and Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And you're going to do it no matter what I say. I know that. But I'm not going to leave this call without telling you the truth. And the truth is you should not do this.

And then you should call your mom up and say, "Based on the fact I've got to go into student loan debt, I've decided not to go." >> Yeah. I I I agree with Dave.

>> What in the world is wrong? >> Yeah. What did I do? Um, I had this amazing opportunity ahead of me. Clearly, >> did you go at her after the divorce with your dad and and she never got over the fact that you got at, you know, you took his side or I mean, what happened?

>> Yeah. Pretty gnarly. >> Or this woman's just wounded from something else and she's taking out on her kid. I don't know.

But this is a game of cat and mouse. I don't want to be in. >> I would opt out of the game. Yeah, that's exactly right.

>> Yeah, I'd step out. >> And Dave's right. even even at the at the at the highest case scenario, she could put a hundred grand towards this other student's tuition and still have $300,000 for your >> and you can still go to school. >> So, it's not about her.

>> Choose a school you can afford. If you've got $250,000 of casually in there, choose a school that's 250 or don't go, >> right?

>> It it's um and no one asks the doctor where they went to school ever.

>> Yeah. If she's making you pay for flights, if she's got 400k and she's not

paying for tuition your senior year, helping you with rent, there's other there's something underneath all of this that is borderline pathological. Or mom just thinks she's toughening up her daughter. And um then you have to live in that mathematical reality. I simply don't have the money to go to med school right now.

And I'm like Dave, I know too many >> medical doctors whose kids are going to school and they're still paying on their student loans. And so I just I can't in good faith tell you to do that right now. >> And John has a PhD in higher education, so he does know actually what this >> It's tough, man. It's tough tough tough tough tough.

>> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> I hate it for you.

or it's like I'm going to I'm going to box my kid around the ears because I know the world's tough and they're going to get boxed around the ears a lot. And what you end up doing is beating your kid down so much before they even get into the world. And there's something about teaching your kids strength and discipline and resilience. And then there's something about kicking your kids knees out from under them before they leave the house. And so if Yeah. To

this mother, congratulations. You win.

you're going to have 400 grand in an account and you're have what sounds like

a pretty hardworking amazing young woman who's going to have her dreams diverted.

Either she's going to go into catastrophic debt um trying to prove herself or she's going to have to go do something else robbing a generation of potentially a great young doctor um because you want to be right. So congratulations on being right and altering everything here.

>> Yeah, that's just But you're a tough old brag. You proved it. You showed her. Congratulations. You showed her. >> Give me a break.

Congratul [Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Jonathan and Sashia are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi. >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do you all live? >> Savannah, Georgia. >> Fun. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> 373,346.

>> Way to go. How long did that take?

>> 16 months. >> Good for you. Whoa. And your range of in income during that time? started out 90,000 and ended up 530,000.

>> Okay, that's bizarre.

>> Yes. >> Who who who got a job? What in the world? >> So that's me. >> That would be you. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, so I'm guessing you must have come out of med school, huh?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And so you went from making nothing to making 400.

>> Yes. >> Or something. >> Yes, sir. >> Way to go. What specialization are you in? >> So OBGYn. >> Oh, wow. Good for you.

>> Thank you. That's the most fun kind of doctor. Babies, babies, babies.

>> Yes. >> It's the only time people are happy to be in the hospital. >> Yes. >> Absolutely. >> Very cool. Good for you. That's fun. So 400k from nothing. So 373 is not a house. That was med school. >> All student loans. >> Wow. And you just said we're making we're making we're going to pretend like we're not making any money. We're going to pay off the loans in 16 months.

>> That's exactly what we did, Dave.

>> So you heard us telling somebody in an earlier segment. >> I said yes. That was the seed that was planted for our story for sure.

>> Okay. Tell us about this adventure.

>> So the journey really started in 2019 whenever I graduated medical school staring at six figures of debt and it

was smothering. It was hard to breathe.

So we went through residency not making much. Our goal then was just let's not make that number larger. Right. So we

lived well beneath our means. We had twins. Yes. So, we went through all of that. Um, medical her like it was her fault. Then she got pregnant. She had twins.

>> Um, we have a teen. So, we got her through school and we were like, let's just keep this number steady. Um, and then when I graduated training, it was like, let's live well below our means, live like a resident, literally, and pay everything onto this debt. >> You did just exactly like we described.

That's incredible. So, when did you get connected to the Ramsay stuff? So, I heard about you in medical school um just from students talking about it. We were all wondering how are we going to pay off these loans?

And some people really wanted loan forgiveness and some people talked about Dave Ramsey and I said, "Well, the loan forgiveness doesn't sound very good. So, let me look into that." And so, you were simmering for a long time before we could press play. >> Wow. Okay.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Yes. Yes. make it. >> Residency was tough cuz we wanted to but we just didn't have the means. >> Yeah. You didn't have enough margin then. >> But even even having the courage and the grit to hold the line and say, "Okay,

we've dug this big of a hole." That's a tough order with what, three kids?

>> Yes. >> Um and you in residency, which means you're working 900 hours a week.

>> Yes. >> And >> you're holding down everything.

>> Yes, sir. >> Still does. >> To just say we're holding the line.

That's really tough. That's like doing bench press and instead of like pushing it all the way up, it's just holding it.

That's hard, man. That's really tough.

>> Yes, absolutely. >> Congratulations. >> Yeah. Thank you. Amazing. >> The great news is is now Woohoo.

>> Yes. >> Wow. You're going to be able to do amazing stuff. >> Yes. >> Do you have a mortgage? >> We >> just bought a house. >> We just bought it last month.

>> Good. Right after this. Okay. And now turn around and get it paid off. Huh. Exactly. All right. What do you want it?

uh 5.85. Okay. It's it's a

>> got our first mortgage payment. >> So, what is your uh what is your plan on it? >> So, we're on a 15-year fix. Shout out to Amy Joe with Church Hill Mortgage. She was amazing. But our plan is to get that paid off hopefully in five years.

>> Yeah. Good. That's perfect. >> And the fact that y'all didn't go out and buy a $7 million home.

>> It was tempting. >> I bet it was. I bet they said you qualify for any home you want.

>> Yes, we qualify for 2 million.

>> It was crazy. And we didn't. We said, "No, that we we don't need a $2 million house." >> Amazing. >> Well, you will someday, >> but not. >> Yeah. >> Won't be longing to go, y'all.

>> Thank you. >> Way to go. I'm so proud. How's it feel?

>> It feels good. >> The the excitement part for me was every time we made that payment, >> it's like you make it. Let's keep going.

Let's keep going. Let's keep going. And that was the that was >> that's once we made the last payment, it was like this is it. We're done. Yes, >> we are done with this. >> How'd that feel when you hit that last button? >> It was amazing. It was amazing.

>> How much dancing around the living room was there? That a lot.

>> Champagne cork going off. Yeah.

>> Yes, for sure. >> That's great. Submit. No more student loans. Done, baby.

>> That's it. >> Mic drop. >> Okay. How How many of your classmates that you graduated with >> do you think are debtree? Debtree right now? >> 16 months away. >> Minimum. >> Zero. Zero. >> 1%. >> Zero. I I work in a large practice and

nobody who got out of residency. It was a primary goal for them and it was hard.

You mentioned Doc Idis. You know, I had a lot of colleagues, a lot of classmates with brand new cars, new homes, vacationing, and we're just, you know, thrift shopping and living below our means and pushing through. But, but now they're like, man, you did it right. You know, so I'm inspiring them even now hopefully to try to make those changes and >> hopefully this story will help those people in medical school or graduating residents see, you know, it can be done.

It's hard. It's so hard, but it can be done. >> 373,000 in 16 months.

>> Yes. >> That's just not messing around at all.

>> That's pretty study. That's pretty right there. >> Jonathan, what was it like keeping everything duct taped and bailing wired together over those many years?

>> It It was hard. It was hard. Um cuz I

you know we had the old older daughter and then the the two twins. It was it

was a lot to keep up with.

>> Um I I would probably say the good thing for me is I like everything to be on a schedule. So once everything was on a schedule, it made a little bit easier.

But what the hardest thing is just not being able to see her. And I' I've got to give a shout out to her.

>> She worked extremely extremely hard.

>> I mean I can't I can't say enough. you know, it she she dug and dug and dug.

There was a lot of nights.

We you know, we didn't see each other, didn't talk. We may have text a little bit, but I've got to give her a lot of credit on that. >> And um you know, I knew that there was it was hard, but I I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. I said, I know it's coming.

I know it's coming. Just, >> you know, we just got to dig in there and just keep going. I can't wait for a few years from now when that older teenager comes home and sees the clothes these young twins are wearing and says, "Hey, wait a minute." >> Oh, yes. >> Like, what about me?

>> But she's seen the grit and she's, you know, she's in college. We second week this week. >> Oh, you changed her life. >> Change her life. Yes. Able to cash flow

her college and >> but she has no excuses. She watched her mom >> and her dad just be gangsters. She has no she she has no excuses, man. None.

>> But but not from words. She got to watch you guys do it, which is the most powerful lesson a parent can give. It's amazing. >> And you're not going to put her in student loan debt to teach her a lesson either. >> No. No,

>> man. >> So she can learn grit.

So cool. >> We've had those calls today. It's crazy.

Absolutely crazy. >> Wow. So proud of y'all. >> Thank you. >> How does it feel? It feels amazing, you

know, to be able to just work, earn money, and you keep it all.

You know, you put it towards things that are going to build your future. A home, our first home ever. Um, we're able to now start and save for retirement.

>> How long y'all been married?

>> Seven years. >> Seven years. >> Yeah. So, what what's the You bought the house. That's a good That's a good first thing to do. What's the next The next second thing you're going to do just to celebrate and enjoy some of this.

>> I want a truck. Yes. >> There you go. >> He needs a truck. >> I need a truck.

>> Dad, a truck. You do need a truck. What are we going to get? What are we gonna get? >> I want a uh Denali. Chevrolet or GMC Denali. >> Yeah, that's a nice truck. >> Funny on the way on the drive up here.

My battery went dead on the side of the road. >> No way. It did. >> Yeah. I replaced it in the in the parking lot of AutoZone, >> Jasper, Tennessee. >> All right, let's get on it. We're about to We're about to run out of time. Let's count them down.

$500,000 a year and I'm changing the battery in the Auto Zone. I like it. I like it. Count it. All right. Uh $373,000 paid off at 16 months. Make a 90 to 530. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

11.

Get the man of Denali.

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[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 16:9.

Nine. In their hearts, humans plan their course, but the Lord establishes their steps. Milton Friedman said, "If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years, there'd be a shortage of sand."

>> Yep, that'll work. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings every month this week, and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find thousands of dollars worth of margin using every dollar.

You get out of debt, you build wealth. And you can ask us any question during the live Q&A. You're going to love that.

how to build your budget out and how to become wealthy and how to get out of debt so that you can become wealthy.

Ramseyolutions.com.

Sign up for free.

ramiesolutions.comwebinar.

Be sure and check that out. Nick is in Knoxville. Hi, Nick. How are you?

>> Hey, Mr. Ramsey, thanks for having me today. I really appreciate it. And doctor, you as well. >> Thank you. >> Um, I got a um I'm very fortunate uh in my

life. Um, I inherited a pretty good

chunk of money uh from my grandfather, my granny and pop. Um, their estate when they passed away. Uh, my wife and I have no children. Uh we're very conservative.

We live conservatively. We live below our means. Um we already are doubling up

on our payments on our home. Uh we currently own owe about 212,000 on it.

And the money that I have is I've

completed phase one. Basically, it happened in 2022 when my grandfather passed away. He was with a longtime financial adviser and I had to kind of

break the ties with him because it was all invested in like one chunk of the company that he worked for. So I had to diversify it which was very difficult.

So I went with a good family friend of ours with um a large Primica financial

institution which you're familiar with Mr. Ramsey and it was all diversified.

Um, and so I've kind of got over that

now and I'm like, do I pay the home off?

>> How much how much is in the account?

>> Uh, right now 1.639.

Um, and not all that is my grandparents.

I've saved up a whole lot um during my career. >> Why would you not pay off your house before now? Why would you not just do that automatically? It's a >> it's an irrelevant amount of money if you got a 100 a million six.

>> Yes, sir. Um, so the reason being is cuz my, you know, a financial adviser friend of mine and then the financial adviser through Prim America also was like, well, you're making money on this money and you're fixed at a two two and a half% interest rate um with your mortgage and you can make 10%.

>> So based on that, these idiots would tell you to go buy a borrow a million dollars on your house because you can make a spread on it.

>> Well, that's why I'm calling you today. >> No, I mean that's what these idiots are telling you. It's the same dad gum stupid thing.

>> Yeah, >> but they don't make any money when you pay off your mortgage. They only make money when you buy stock from or mutual funds from them. Their commission is not based on your debt reduction. It's based on how much you keep with them under management.

>> Yeah. Yes, sir. So, that's

>> Yeah. They're ripping you off. >> It pisses me off. >> Yeah. >> And then they drop my name to boot.

>> So, um the >> Yeah. Pay off your house today, man.

>> Yeah, pay it off today. >> And change financial advisors again

>> and get one get one that has some dad gum sense. >> Yeah, they're lying to you, brother.

>> Telling you to stay in debt >> when you got a million6 in your account and you only owe $200,000 on your mortgage. >> That's just as >> Yeah. Has nothing to do with Dave Ramsey. I can tell you that.

>> Go back. >> Talk my name and then give that advice.

Just ask, "What would it be like to sit at a table with your grandfather >> who's who's seen a few things?" >> What would your grandpa do?

>> He'd say, "If you >> kicking your butt more than I am, >> to own your house outright. Do it right now. Don't make these other men rich off gambling off of your u off your spread." >> Yeah. Nope. Nope. >> Dave, that makes me so mad.

I don't It makes me irrationally angry.

I'm glad you got angry for both of us, but geez. >> I got I got two dips. one bad advice and one drop in my name to give the bad advice. So, I double dipped on the anger. But yeah, that No, no, no, no,

no, no. Yeah. And Nick, another thing I do, number one, I use common sense when I'm applying these things. And I've never had anyone in 40 years of doing this show, it's approaching 40 now, uh, tell me that I gave them bad advice when I told them to pay off their house. I've never had a single person send me hate mail that said, "I paid off my house and I hate you. You're awful." And if you

pay off your house and you hate it, you can go get you a new mortgage. They'll give you another one. So if you hate being debtree, I've never had that experience ever. Ever.

>> And all the data tells us among the millionaires that we've studied, not broke financial people selling you mutual funds, but real millionaires,

that that the paid off house is one of the key elements of becoming a multi-millionaire because it sets you free. You don't have anything to think about anymore. I promise you the grass feels different under your feet when you walk out in the backyard with no shoes on and no mortgage.

My grass, shut up. Cuz there's risk

involved. We've done detailed research and 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. So yeah, go to ramsysolutions.com and click on Smartves Veester Pro and find a Ramsey Smart Veester Pro in your area that will give you good advice instead of that clown show you're with. Yeah, man.

All right, Katie's in New Hampshire. Hey Katie, what's up?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so my husband and I are first-time home buyers. Um, and we've been paying extra to the mortgage. Um, but we've been seeing how much interest we've been paying versus the amount that's actually going to the principal. And after talking to my in-laws, they highly recommended uh HELOC as they said that it's just interest payments, which is not a lot compared to the interest that we're paying now. Um >> your your in-laws don't know how to do the math. >> Yeah. They don't have a calculator.

>> It's not how it works. Okay. You have you have you have you have a convent you have a conventional mortgage, right?

>> Yeah, we do. >> Okay. Your your conventional mortgage is calculated exactly like a simple interest heliloc.

Exactly.

Okay. You're not prepaying interest on the front end. You're paying interest based on the current interest rate of your mortgage and the outstanding balance as of this month. When you pay a

principal balance, you slide forward in the amaturization schedule to the So, if you put $10,000 extra on the principal balance, it's not next month on the AM schedule. It's $10,000 worth of principal reduction forward because that that amount of interest is charged on that $10,000 less balance. So the amate

amortization schedule is calculated as if it were perfectly done simple interest. And an a heliloc is simple interest as well. So your in-laws are under the mistaken impression. It's it's a fallacy that's believed out there.

mythology that because you mainly what you pay on the front end of a mortgage is interest that you're prepaying the interest on the front end of the mortgage. You're not. You're paying the exact amount of interest due. The reason it's so high is it's the highest your balance is ever going to be.

As your balance goes down, the amount that goes to interest goes down and the amount that goes to principal goes up because you have a fixed payment all the way through. Okay? That's how the actual math works. So, bless your in-laws heart, honey.

They don't don't take financial advice from them.

>> Give you a good husband and let's just call it. >> Yeah. They made made a good husband and he's a good boy and we'll move on. She makes a good casserole, but we're not taking math from her. I'm just

>> Okay. Okay. Dave, help me with this. I

know we're running out of time. Yeah. >> And this segment's about to be brought by brought to you by Preparation H because hemorrhoids are getting a little bit out of control with how frustrated I'm getting. teach me about why that would even even under the this scenario you you drew their mistaken understanding. Why would taking out a loan against your house somehow be better? >> Well, it's if if you were prepaying the

interest somehow and you could avoid that >> by paying down the principal, then borrowing money at simple interest to do that would mathematically make sense.

>> But there's no such thing. It's not how it works. And so >> would the bank come up with a loan and just cross their fingers and hope that nobody figured out that sophisticated response? >> Well, there's been more than one hack on the internet over the 30 years I've been doing the 40 years I've been doing this. So there you go. Here we go. I'll always be in business, John. You always got a job. >> We are always going to have work to do.

>> There's always work to do between financial planners and in-laws. >> And in-laws. >> There we go. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 147. Stop Hoping Someone Else Will Fix Your Money | December 15, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

That's how you join the conversation.

Jesse is kicking us off in Minneapolis.

Jesse, how can we help today?

Hi. Say, I am calling because I have a

freshman daughter new to college and my

husband and I recently found out that she opened a credit card. Um, she knows

we're against that. My husband tossed

around the idea of kind of giving her an

ultimatum, excuse me, an ultimatum that if she doesn't close it, um, we will not

provide her the funds from her 529. And I'm just curious your thoughts on that.

We haven't talked to her about that yet, but um, we're just trying to figure out

how to navigate it.

>> How did you find out about the credit card?

Um, well, when she was home on Thanksgiving break, she goes to a college fairly close to home. Um, I saw it in her wallet.

>> How do you see it in a wallet without opening said wallet?

>> She has like a little It's like a thing attached to her lanyard. She has her student ID in it and then her debit card. And then I >> And then you have She doesn't know that you know at this point.

>> She does know cuz I asked her about it.

>> Okay. Did she get defensive? Was she like, "Well, here's why I did this."

>> Not really. I mean, she didn't get defensive. She was kind of open at first, but then didn't really want to tell me what the balance was on it.

>> Oh. >> Well, was there an agreement? Hey, we're going to pay for school, but you have to go completely debtree. You're not going to go into debt. You're not going to open a credit card. What was the conversation like?

Well, I don't feel like we ever had a specific conversation, but as she turned 18, I do recall like seeing, you know,

credit card offers come in the mail and

just told her kind of like, "Please

don't ever open one. Please don't open one." I mean, I just she knows we're against it. >> So, I I I just want to call out George.

The joy of this show is sometimes people call and and they're like, "I found cocaine in my son's room and and then I found my daughter has three husbands and then occasionally it's like >> she has the Delta Sky Miles card.

>> I found a Discover card. It's so great."

Um, okay. So, and George, jump in here.

Like my Jesse, my rule of thumb is always a I expect my kids to

explore and press boundaries and see if they hold.

Okay, so that's it's a it's a feature, not a bug.

>> The second thing is is there's tons of

things that I like and I regularly badmouth to my son like country music.

He loves, by the way, I love it. I just like to harass him. How short um young teenager shorts are. I think shorts should go past the knee to midshin like they did in the late 90s. He disagreed, right? So, he also knows that me and my

wife um don't borrow money.

That's number one. So, I expect him to roll his eyes to say, "Oh, dad's into that, but I'm not. And mom and dad have a reason for X, Y, or Z, and I'm becoming he's he's growing into a late teenager, right? But your daughter's 18.

She's she's a young adult, right? She's turning into her own woman. And so I would say, as someone who's worked with college students my whole career, hearing you say, "I don't like something," is far different than you sitting down and saying, "Here is an expectation that we have. If you want to accept this, here's the here's the bargain that you're going to make with us." >> Mhm.

>> But you getting upset because y'all have this firm belief about a thing. So take take debt off the table. That's too easy. This the Ramsay show.

Let's say you told her, "You can drive this car, but in order to drive this car, you have to go to this church." Then she has a choice to make. Do I want this car or do I want this?

feels to me awfully costic

>> to circle back and say, "Hey, we did not give you a firm boundary or a firm um a

firm set of responsibilities if you're going to take our money. You know how we feel about things. That's fine. That goes into a bucket of a whole bunch of stuff mom and dad like and don't like.

But this is if you're going to take our money, here's what our expectations are.

You need to make these grades. You got to go to class this much. If you take out debt, then this is then you are choosing to not accept our money.

>> And so I think if I'm going to sit on a

on a jury here, I'm going to side with 18-year-old and say, I know mom and dad hate this. Mom and dad hate a bunch of stuff. They weren't. And then to pull out my college funding feels costic without sitting down and saying, "Hey, we weren't clear. This is that big of a deal to us." And that's our fault. We weren't super clear on our expectations for for you.

>> Um, but if you pull college fund, you take the 529, and by the way, even your language, it's y'all's money. It's y'all's account, but you called it your

her 529 her college fund. And that's the

language he's going to hear is, "Mom and dad got mad and threw a temper tantrum at a thing I did and they took away all of my college fund as a way to force me as a young adult to do something. She's going to either a do it out of spite or

she's going to not do it and you're going to cash out your relationship with your kid." >> Yeah. >> You get what I'm saying? So, it's your money. You can do whatever you want to with this. But man, I think it's the right honorable thing is to sit down and say, "We messed this up on the front end. We gave you this huge blessing

called college, paying for your college,

and we didn't set our expectations for

you choosing to accept this money or not." And so, we're going to we're going to reset that.

>> Okay? >> If you think it's worth losing, I mean, if I mean, that feels like >> play it out. I'm a future thinking person.

She's going to probably go into crippling student loan debt now and we're going to lose the relationship. I'm like, this is going to harm you guys more than it's going to harm her. I mean, she'll be suffering financially, but you guys are going to go, "Why did we was it worth it to teach her the lesson?" Instead, I would dig in and say, "Hey, why'd you open the card?

Like, what's behind that? What were you hoping to accomplish?" Because if it's trying to save up, we can help you do that. If you're trying to get a credit score, we can show you why you don't need that for this stage of your life.

And I think getting to the root of it and owning it like John said, "Hey, we didn't do a good job setting this up." There was no contract in place that said you lose your 529 if you open a credit card. So, it does feel costic and a little bit reactive. So, I would try to just >> calm yourselves emotionally, have the conversation with her, and then go from there. But, I I personally wouldn't pull it.

And this is the Ramsay guy. If my daughter opened a credit card, I would be heartbroken. Absolutely.

pull two decades of savings away from her as punishment? I don't think I could do that. I would rather see her stay debtree on the student loan side and figure out this whole credit card debacle separately. >> And here's here's um ju just sitting with college student parents over the years. Um I would do everything I could

to a be clear and b continue to be a

place my daughter will call when not if but when something happens whatever that

something is. a bad grade, a bad event,

a scary thing. Shame eats secrets for

breakfast. And so, the fact that when you said, "What's the balance on that card?" And she said, "I'm not going to tell you." That means that that 18-year-old didn't feel safe enough to tell her mom. So, this might be a great place for you to go out to take her to breakfast one day and say, "I haven't fully told you my experience with debt.

Here's what happened. Here's what I did when I was 22. Here's how long it took us to pay it off. And this is why it's such a big deal. We love you. We love you." Um, and then if y'all want to say you want this money, you do this, you can do that.

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John is in Boston up next. What's going on, John?

Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. Um, big fan of you guys. Um, I just had a quick question in regards to, you know, how should I approach my my student loans? Um, I I

have $94,000 in student loans and um, I

make a salary of 75,000 a year.

>> So, just wanted your advice on how to approach that. >> Let me ask you this. As a guy who's how long have you been working in local government? >> I've been working local government. It'll be uh six years in March.

>> Very cool. So, when you see what happens at the local level and at the state level and at the federal level.

>> Yeah.

Is there anything about your experience,

both like your lived experience and what you see going on

that makes you think in any shape, form or fashion, you can predict what any member of any government is going to do in four years?

>> Um I I don't think there's Yeah. No, I don't I can't I can't predict that.

>> If you did, I would connect you with our friends at BetterHel because you'd need a therapist. like yeah it it's all all I

know is my lived experiences was working as a dean of students at a at a law school and I had some of the most amazing young men and women who had incredible minds and they chose to not go into private law because they wanted to serve the least of these in their communities and they chose public service and they chose public service because of the do this for 10 years and we'll pay off your loans and the amount of them that got denied over and over over and over again made me so sour on this deal.

And it comes down to who do you trust?

some promise just to get themselves elected or reelected.

>> Do you have any other debt, John?

>> No, that that's just about it. The student loans is >> How have you actually signed up for the program yet? Like how far into it are you? So, so that's the thing. I'm I'm

currently in the M's program. So, while I have been working for the state government, I'll be graduating, God willing, in um uh May of 2026. So, I

wouldn't start until May of 2026.

>> Okay. And then it's 10 years from that.

>> It's 10 years from that. Yes. Yes. So, um hopefully >> So, how old are you now?

>> I'm currently 28. >> All right. So, let's say like by your 40th birthday, maybe this shakes out.

>> Or another way to say that, three presidential elections from now.

Yeah. >> And here here's the thing people don't think about, John, because they get stareyed that their 100 grand is going to disappear. Number one, your balance will likely grow until that number gets forgiven. And you're going to be making payments that entire time for 10 years.

So, you need to add up what that's actually costing you. And by the way, the amount that's forgiven is taxable.

>> So, you're going to owe taxes on top of that while the balloon has grown, while you've made payments for a decade. And let's hope that it all shakes out perfectly. >> And so, that's my fear. I'm not like angry against the program.

Like I love to see someone working for their community, you know, h have a benefit like that. I just don't think it's worth it. >> I love that idea. >> Yeah.

And so the question is, >> could I like put a little ump into it and be done in two years and have the next eight be free, or do I want this living in my head rent free for a decade going, "Oh gosh, I hope it works out.

I'm making that payment again. I hope it works out." >> And that's my heart for this. I'm I'm rooting I just believe in John more than PSLF.

>> I hear that. Yeah, that's I mean again I've been using the the the loan simulation calculator that my loan provider has and you know it's not the most it might not be the most accurate but it's the closest thing I have using that calculator and I'm you know thinking about maybe throwing you know two grand a month at my loans and you know the calculator states that you know you'll be paid off in you know four and a half five years if you do that >> and that's if you do nothing differently that's if your income doesn't go up you don't try to you know ratchet the expenses down and I just think when you when you have that goal to become debtree all of a sudden you go, I'm willing to make more.

I'm willing to spend less. Versus kind of sitting on the sidelines hoping that an exterior force changes your life. That's the part that worries me cuz then you that's how you operate through life is you go, "Well, it's not up to me.

If you're really good at your job, you know what? You're going to have tons of opportunities.

You're going to meet somebody.

>> They're going to want to move across the country to be by their parents when you have twins accidentally. And part of the

calculation will not be freedom and not what do we want to do and what cool opportunities do we have in another local government in the state government in another state or in a new for-profit entity. It will be but I got to stay here for four more years. And so there's a never this never gets taken into the calculation is a decade of sleepless nights because you are owned by somebody else >> because now you need that job.

>> I have to have that job. I'm already this far into it. So I'm going to not do something that could be a good opportunity, not do something that's going to be best for me and my family.

not go whatever because I'm stuck in

this thing because they have a hundred

grand um set of golden handcuffs around my wrist.

>> Mhm. >> And I just don't I just saw my students deal with it. And I I I don't have George, you may have it. I don't have any of the data. When I left, it was like 98 or something some crazy percentage were getting denied. >> Yeah. >> And so I don't it >> it might be 96 now. Like it's slowly >> it it might be better now. And I let me reiterate as a taxpayer, I love the idea

that my tax dollars go to getting some of the best and brightest minds and hardest working people into serving people in local communities. I love that idea, >> right? >> But I don't get to make that choice. And so that that's I mean >> or to put it this way, I went and paid my student loans off as fast as I could.

>> And I I was working at universities, was a nonprofit. I qualified for the same program. I worked as hard as I could and got those stupid things done. So, it's not just me. I got some skin in the game, too. I did that because I just didn't want to be beholden to whatever person in office holding that over whatever thing they wanted to do 10 years from now.

>> That's a fair point. I I I appreciate that perspective and that is something I don't think I ever took into consideration just the future landscape of it. So, >> yeah. And can I throw one more thing at you while you're on the phone?

If you don't have the cash to pay for a master's program, I would tell you postpone it.

>> Hold off because that's yet another set

of shackles.

>> I hate to disappoint you that I'm I'll be finishing that masters program in um in uh May of uh next year. So So it

>> you're not disappointing me. I I don't I don't owe I don't owe student loans anymore. But I do know I had six figures of student loans and I didn't sleep for years. It made me insane.

I had to say no to opportunities. I had to do different things, live in a different house, drive a different car because of that choice I made. So even if you had to submit a letter of I need to take a semester off and so I can earn some more money and they may want you as a student and they're going to give you a scholarship or they say great, we'll pick you up next semester. Whatever you need to do, I just want you to know you don't you're not stuck in a track where you have no options.

>> Right. >> What's the masters in?

>> The masters in uh urban planning.

>> Okay. And that's the exact field you're in. Does it come with a pay bump immediately?

>> Um I'm not in the in the current field at the moment. However, uh the jobs that I'm looking at uh do come with a significant pay bump um once, you know, obviously once I'm I'm done with the program and and and get selected for the for the position that I apply to. Yeah. >> So, let's say by next fall, could you be making six figures?

>> Uh definitely low uh six figures. Um

there are, but most likely probably um mid to high 90s >> cuz I'm just wondering, you got two grand you can throw at the debt. Now what if you had another two grand because of the pay bump and you kept living how you're living and now we're debtree in 2 years.

>> Yeah. I mean again that is something I'm I'm taking into consideration if I do my my intent is you know within the next few years or few months to get a significant pay rise. So, or or what if

you have six or seven years of working in local government and you have this graduate degree in urban planning and a construction firm hires you to help them navigate government contracts and they're going to pay you a4 million dollars. Right? So, not attaching yourself to this government program 10 years from now allows you to keep all of your options open.

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And uh I'm biased. My toddler is a big fan. And if you're shopping for everyone else, too, there's other deals. $13 bestselling hard covers, including books for myself and Dr. John Deloney. $13 career assessments, $12 for questions for humans decks, and $7.99 audiobooks and ebooks. Get it all. ramiesolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. Annie is in San Francisco up next. What's going on, Annie?

>> Hi guys. How are you doing?

>> We're good. How are you?

>> Okay. I I I would say I'm I'm okay.

>> What's going on?

>> So, uh we recently had our daughter, our

19year-old old daughter.

and she moved out of the house with her boyfriend. She dropped out of school and

in one of the many well not one but a few of the many um heated conversations

or I would say arguments that we would have um we will be very clear about what

would be removed if she were to go out

of the house.

Um and among those it was um removing or

not being responsible for her health insurance.

Now she was born with a uh heart

condition. She's been having a few

surgeries over the years. And

um now that open enrollment is going on,

I told her that she needed to

find a way to be responsible for her own

health insurance.

The last conversation I had with her and I told her, you know, you need to look into this. It's almost it's almost a 15 and open enrollment.

It's going to come to an end and we need to see what she can do with insurance.

She get mad at me. Um, she said, "Why

are you doing this? You know, you can't take me out of insurance." And I know I can.

>> What are you What are you trying to accomplish by taking her off taking away her health insurance?

So, she thinks that living with her boyfriend at her boyfriend's house is just being She pretty much went out of the house to

be free of responsibility.

>> Is it to be free of responsibility or to be free of you?

>> Well, I guess free of everything cuz being at home, she had to bring me good grace. She had to be at home at the third time.

>> Okay.

you know. >> So, I don't know that it's free of responsibility. It sounds like she wants to because she's going to have rent and she's going to have to do stuff at this new place, right?

>> Well, that's my thing. I don't think she's being responsible over anything.

>> So, do you think cutting her off health insurance will make her more responsible somehow, especially with a heart condition that you know she's going to need surgery for?

>> Cuz here's what it sounds like. It sounds like you're you're less even more than punishing.

It sounds like you are trying to control what an adult does.

>> Mhm. >> Right.

Well, I in in in mind, but on the other

hand, I want her to know that

being an adult has a lot with it.

>> I I got that. I got that. >> If you were like funding her drug addiction, I'd say, "Yeah, no, this is enabling. Let's cut her off." But access to medical care, I don't think is directly connected to this relationship decision she made. We can agree on that,

>> right? >> Oh, yeah. >> Cuz I read the prodigal son. I don't know that the dad kicked his son off healthcare when he left the house with the inheritance. I assume he kept him on the plan, the family plan, and went, "All right, hopefully he comes back one day. I can control him." And lo and behold, he came back. And so, I just think there's a piece of this that you might need to to let go and then let her

test these boundaries. Let her figure this out for herself a little bit. But I don't think the healthcare should be a condition.

>> It just it it feels Tell me if I'm wrong. My guess is this conversation escalated.

>> You're going to have to get your own cell phone. You're going to have to pay for your own car insurance. You're going to have to pay for your own gas. And she's like, "Fine, fine, fine."

>> And then you went with the nuclear option, which is I know you've got a heart problem. I'm going to pull that funding off the table, too.

And now it's hard to walk that back. Is that fair or did you go come out of the gate with that?

>> Not really because we uh since she was

young, we were teaching her on how to be responsible in many ways.

>> I know. I know. But what you're telling me is you taught her all of these things >> and she still doesn't have that message.

>> Do you get what I'm saying? I mean my mom my mom heart it's telling me that I should keep covering her health insurance but at the same time

I want her to know that I don't have all

of this within >> I got you. So I all I can tell you is in

this situation what I would do in my house and I have a young daughter

if my daughter had a medical condition and she was making a what I thought was a boneheaded idiotic 19-year-old decision.

I'm not going to put her life on the line to prove a point. I will sit down

with her and say I love you. This door will always be open for you. you know what I think about the decision or decisions you're making is and I can't contribute to that. So, you're going to be on your own with your car insurance. You're going to be on your own with yourself. Like, I would put those things out there and I would always have it tethered with you can always come home.

This door is always open for you and I'll meet you in the driveway with my arms wide open.

And I would look at my daughter and say, "You've got me as your dad. You got me pinned up on this one because you know I'm not going to let you die on an operating table because you don't have any money.

>> Yeah. >> But I need you to hear me say my heart's broken. Not I'm going to keep controlling you and controlling you and send you off because she's 19 making a 19-year-old decision. And does she need to learn that adulthood has responsibilities? Of course she does. No question about it.

But I spent my whole career working with 19year-olds and they do 19-year-old things. And I'm not going to put my kid in a position, this is me personally, you do what you want and you are well entitled. Say you're off. You made a choice. You go do it. I'm just telling you in my house, I wouldn't I wouldn't put that on the block.

But that's just me.

>> I'd be very clear about my boundaries.

The question I want you to ask yourself is what is the ultimate goal?

>> I mean we we had this conversation with her already and she knows she can come back home whenever she feels like she

can be on herself like whenever she

needs us she can come home anytime.

>> But she also knows rules and restrictions may apply. Yes. But she also knows the home she would be coming to is so cruel that my mom would rather

me not have health insurance and prove a point,

>> right? And so what kind of home are we coming home to? Not a boundary home, not a rule-free home.

They're just they're just again, if you called and said, "I feel like cutting off the cutting off her college funding and cutting off her cell phone." If you've sat down and been clear, I'd be I'd support you. Go get it. It's your money. do what you want because of the precarious nature of this situation.

Let me put it this way. It feels like y'all are playing blackjack and you know you have an ace and I want to challenge you not to play blackjack with your kid.

>> Okay, >> but that's just me. George, what do you think? I I don't think her prefrontal cortex is is fully baked yet. So, it feels like a lot to put this on her.

And I I simply would right now it's opposing magnets and you're just driving her further and further away. I would try to flip that magnet around and go, how can I draw her in and show her that I'm truly a safe place for her and then I truly want the best for her. And that might be a year or two before she has to figure that out and the breakup happens and she goes, "Mom, I need a place to crash. I messed up.

I'm sorry." And maybe that's the thing you tell her is, "I love you enough that when this thing goes south, when it goes sideways, we'll be here. And I'm not going to when you walk in the door, you're not going to be met with a lecture. You're going to be met with open arms. We know how this ends and we'll be here.

my house, I wouldn't put my kids life on the line at 19 years old.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888255225.

Ezekiel's in DC up next. What's going on, man?

>> Good afternoon. Uh, how you guys doing today? >> I'm doing great. How can we help?

Um, so I'm owe over $50,000 worth of

debt. Uh, most of it is loans and you know, loans have monthly payments. Some for 330, some for 500, some for 200. So

mixing all the monthly bills with these loans, try to keep up with my credit and my everyday expenses, rent, food, and stuff like that is is kind of killing me. I'm really going in a circle. And my goal here is just to, you know, pay off my debt cuz I make a decent amount of money, but I'm not enjoying it because all my money mostly goes towards paying this debt. >> Yeah. You work for your lenders right now cuz every paycheck disappears to them.

>> Say that again. >> You You're basically working for your lenders right now. You're working to provide them a paycheck >> pretty much. >> So, how much do you make?

>> I make $38 an hour on one job. uh bring

home about uh about $4,400 a month and I

just got a second job making about uh $34 an hour and I'm bringing about $2,600 a month. So somewhere under

$7,000 a month >> is one full-time, one part-time. How are you juggling those? >> Yeah, one full um they're all 12hour

shift. So it's 31 12s at one job, the one paying 38, and it's 212s at the other job. It's It's not really good for my health. It's not really good for my health. That's another problem. So, I'm just doing five straight 12s a week.

>> What kind of work are you in? >> Monday through Friday. >> I'm a armed security guard.

>> Can I just say this? George is gonna Listen, you're at the right place. And George is going to walk you through a step by step how to do this. All right.

But can I just shout you out?

>> Like just guy to got manto man here.

Like do you have kids? You married?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. I just want to just shout you out.

Because the the word on the street is men don't know how to work and men are all lazy and they're just a bunch of bums and fil and on and on and on. And I

hear a guy that probably did exactly what he was told to do on everything.

You got to get a new car. You got to get this. You got to get this. And you're not afraid to go work and get after it.

And I I want to tell you, man, I applaud you. And George is going to give you a path to freedom. Is that cool?

>> Cool, man. I I got to say I really appreciate that. I worked my tail off.

>> I know you do, man. I can hear it. And >> that's what gives me hope that you're going to get out. >> This show is for guys just like you. I'm proud of you, man. Cuz you're not scared to put George going to give you a hard path. It's not going to be easy, but he's going to give you a path out of this mess. And I'm proud. I just want to say I'm proud of you, dude. It's awesome.

>> Appreciate it, man.

>> So, number one, Ezekiel, you need to focus on your four walls first before you pay anything. And that's your rent, your food, utilities, transportation.

You can cover all of that, right? With no problem.

>> Rent. I'm taking notes. Right.

>> Good. I love it. >> So, rent, utilities, >> transportation, >> food, transportation. Just cover the basics first before you pay any lender, before you do anything else.

>> You can throw insurance in there, too.

Make sure you're on time. You're on track for your insurance payments.

>> And you're bringing in $7,000 right now.

That's what I heard. That's your take-home pay, >> right? >> Are you doing any investing right now?

>> Not at all. I have a lot of ideas and a lot of dreams, but I have this this thought process that I have to clean my plate first. Amen. Clean my plate first.

>> Cuz I was going to tell you to stop investing cuz right now my thought was he might be doing a lot at once. He's trying to save some. He's trying to invest some. He's trying to pay off some debt. He's trying to live. And so you want to focus on debt payoff. Anything above and beyond those expenses we mentioned is focused on debt payoff. And right now you've got a bunch of debts, don't you? How many separate debts would you say you have?

I would have to say uh at least six. Um

I have this silly thing where I think

taking out more loans is going to help me take care of the loans that I have already. I don't >> That just makes you normal, man. That makes you normal. You ain't crazy. And >> when people get desperate, they'll go to Desperate Solutions. >> Yeah. You get sold that all day long. So you're not crazy. >> Yeah. And all the marketing is going to be like, "Oh, Zika, we can help you get out of debt. Take out this consolidation loan." Right.

>> So what are the debts? Like you you said there's a bunch of loans. What type of loans are they? Car loans, credit cards, personal loans.

>> I have uh one credit card for $3,300.

It's uh $86 a month. I have a personal

loan for 13,000.

That's $330. I have a car note that's almost paid off from where it starts.

It's down to about$7,000 from 2500 over 5 years, but it wants 465

a month. and and that's killing me with car insurance. So, I'm paying about $800 from for my car.

>> I have a another personal loan for $8,000 >> and um that's about 250 a month. So,

>> what are all these personal loans for?

>> All these personal loans literally just to keep me above ground and try to catch up with all the other loans and um uh damages to my car and uh >> But what what started this whole process? Cuz you make good money. So, what caused a guy making six figures to go, I can't pay the bills? Because it wasn't the these debts as it stands,

>> man. Um, just bad money management. I'm

really bad at at at managing money.

>> I've been trying to do this for so long.

Um, I had an idea to move somewhere in the state cheap, but decided to help out

some family members. So, I moved into a house where >> Yeah. >> I moved into a house where we're renting the house for $3,600 a month. And you're

paying the rent?

>> I'm not paying it all by myself, but I'm paying >> What's your portion? >> 15 I'm paying 1,500.

>> Okay. That's reasonable for a guy taking home seven grand. But do they expect you to pay all the light bill and all the water? Cuz you're the rich one now.

>> No, I'm literally just paying the 1,500, but I I came from a place where I was paying five and really doing well. Okay.

>> And and then I came here and now I'm paying >> Well, you weren't doing well. you were just able to shuffle stuff around on the Titanic a little bit more.

>> But 1,500 is not bad if you make the kind of money. >> Here's the hard truth. You're not in a position to help anybody right now. The weak can't help the weak.

And I hope and I know that once you're out of this mess, you're going to be a real generous guy cuz you have a heart to serve and a heart to help. And you do security for a living. And yet your life is so insecure right now. Your finances are out of control.

You see how that works? >> And you're not scared of hard work. So, put 2500 and you're done in three years.

>> And then you get exciting. What if I did three grand a month? Well, that's 36 grand a year. I'm done in 18 months.

Do you see how how this starts to roll? And then what will cause you to feel the progress and momentum is using the debt snowball method. And I'm going to gift you every dollar. It's our budgeting app.

It's really more than that now because it's going to coach you through this whole process. So, you're going to lay out all of your debts in the app and you're going to focus on the smallest balance. So, what's your next smallest debt?

>> I would say the smallest one would be u

credit card of $1,100. That would be the absolute smallest. >> Done. That one's done. Within the next 30 days, that 1,100 bucks is going to pass through your hands and you can throw it knock out the credit card debt, can't you?

>> Yes. >> Done. >> Great. So, that's one debt freed up. And remember, you freed up the payment on that. So now we can apply that to the next smallest debt. What's the next smallest one?

>> Uh the next smallest one, I have it all

written down here, would have to be um

uh something I left out. I left out uh I took uh $5,600 out for from my um 401k

as a loan. So that would be the second smallest one. >> Okay. And that one will get knocked out within what? 3 months. >> Be done by March on that one. Sweet.

>> And so now you can start to see the progress. you go, "Okay, I'm actually making progress instead of trying to not, you know, play whack-a-ole here with my debts, and every dollar will lay all this out very clearly for you. But here's the here's the fact of the matter. You're going to have to keep this income up for a little while longer, but I don't want you doing this.

I don't want you working, you know, 5 12 hour shifts for the next four years. We can agree on that, right?" >> Right. >> But could you do this for a year?

>> My lady is My lady does not like it at all. >> Oh, I bet. Well, she doesn't see you.

You're a ghost to her. And even when you are around, you're probably not super fun to be around right now. >> And you're going to have to tell her, "Hey, for 24 months, we can't go out to eat." >> Date night looks different. >> For 24 months, we're going to go on walks and hikes and free movies at the

local whatever because we I'm going to get a I'm going to be listen to this word. I'm going to be free.

>> We're going to be splitting a Costco hot dog 75 cents a piece. That's the life

you're going to live for a very short time, Ezekiel. so that the next 20, 30, 40 years of your life is truly free, is truly secure. So hang on the line.

Christian's going to pick up. We're going to gift you every dollar to help coach you through this. Exactly what we did on air. It's going to do that 24/7 in your pocket, giving you recommendations, a personalized plan to help you out of this mess. You call us back if we can help once more.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by best-selling author Dr. John Deloney and it's open phones at8825-55225.

Give us a call. We'll do our best to help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Kate is in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Kate?

>> Hey, how are y'all today? >> We're doing great. What's your question?

>> Good, good. I have a question about um

paying for potential funeral expenses for an aranged father.

>> Um so, we haven't really >> Is he still with us?

Yes, he is. Um he's 65 in in not great

health. >> Um so I would expect obviously sometime

in the future. Um but >> well even if he was in great health, you could expect sometime into the future, right? >> Yeah. You know, >> for all of us. >> It's it's coming for all of us.

>> Exactly. Exactly. Um I just like to get ahead of the of the curve before anything catches me by surprise. um he's

really not of the means to have pay for anything himself. Um won't have any kind of an estate or anything like that. Um my siblings won't really have any means

either. And so I feel like it's going to fall on me, but with not really having a

relationship more than an occasional phone call, that kind of thing. Um, I'm just kind of curious what my obligations are. And then also what I need to do cuz

I'm working through baby step two. Um, I've got about 20,000 more in debt to

go, but do I pause baby steps to throw a

little bit in savings or what what do I need to do? >> Do you struggle? And this is the pot asking the kettle here. Do you struggle with anxiety?

>> Of course. >> Yeah. So, you've created a future potential problem and you've dragged it back to today and you're trying to solve it today. >> Mhm. >> As one amazing young man at my church once said, this is a problem for future you right now.

>> Okay.

>> Like financially. Okay. Like the financial like if he drops dead tomorrow, god forbid I hope he doesn't.

If he does, then we'll solve that problem tomorrow. But right now, you're in the you're in your own emergency, which is I got to get this stuff paid off.

>> The second thing I would ask you is where does the word obligation come from?

Because that can be a legal question like who pays for the burial here for a guy that I don't want anything to do with, but I hear you asking more of a character, spiritual moral question.

>> Yeah, it's definitely more of a moral side. I I don't wish any ill will toward

him, but >> So ask yourself this question, and this is a haunting question.

>> Who do you want to be?

>> And you get to answer that however you want.

>> Okay? >> And what I mean by that is I want to be a person who even if somebody treats me like crap or whatever, I'm going to go do this. I'm gonna call this the next right thing, which is I'm gonna pay for as inexpensive of a burial as I can, but I'm going to show dignity and respect and I'm going to go on about my life. Or I want to be a person who holds people accountable to how they treated me and so you don't want anything to do with me.

I'm not going to have anything to do with you. Or I want to be a kind of person that lets them have it.

>> Okay. >> Okay.

And I wish it was more complicated than that. And I know it's heavy. >> Yeah. >> It's simple, but it's really hard, right?

>> If this funeral happened, who would show up?

there there might be a handful of people. >> Okay, so we can limit this. This isn't going to be a big thing. We can limit the cost of this. Keep it as simple as possible. And whoever signs the funeral agreement is going to be liable to pay.

And so I would try to get some agreement on that before that day comes so that it

doesn't add stress to the grief.

>> Or you can cremate him. I mean, there's there's any number of things paths you can take here.

>> Okay. I'm just I'm almost hesitant that if I bring it up now, then everything

would fall on me and there would be no cooperation from at all.

>> If you're asking that right now, then you know that's what's going to happen now, 5 years, 10 years, 15 years from now. You know that. >> Yeah. >> And so worrying about trying to solve that in the present is not a good use of your time or energy because you can't solve it. What's your timeline to get out of debt?

I should be out of debt in the next 12,

18 months. >> It's amazing. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. >> And then beyond that, you've got an emergency fund and I would start saving up knowing that there might be three, four, five grand on the line that I might need to pay to cover this expense if no one else chips in.

Or I'm going to be a person that's not going to cover other people's stuff. And so I'm going to go on about my life. But you're going to have to look yourself in the mirror long after he's gone.

Yeah. >> Right.

>> And in the grand scheme of life going, "Man, I hate that I spent three grand on or you go, you know what? I don't regret it. Yeah, it wasn't a fun thing to pay for. It didn't solve any family dysfunction, >> but I did the next right thing for me.

>> Exactly. And so either way, I would make peace with the decision and not roleplay

this in your head, letting it live rentree. That will just consume you >> because you have a bunch of imaginary conversations with people, don't you? Of course. >> Yeah. And then she said and then I said this and then you always get like the mic drop moment, right? >> And you might be right. It might play out exactly like that. >> But 99% chance. No way. It feels like I remember uh Bnee Brown said this and I loved it. She said, "We spend a lot of time dress rehearsing tragedy.

We spend a lot of time imagining what would happen if the worst case thing happens and how we're going to respond and how we're going to be the hero and how nobody's going to." And what that does is it serves as a Xanax to us dealing with the problems that we have in our life right this minute.

>> And it's just a way to distract yourself. It's like Tik Tok except in your own mind scrolling scrolling scrolling.

And so just knowing that rumination

never solves a problem.

And as a ruminator, I know that's easier said than done, right? I'm like, just don't eat the cookies. And I'm like, but I have to. Right. Right. So, I get that.

Um, but yeah, George is right. If if if

you're asking what we would do in our personal life, George, transparent, >> I would just save up and pay. >> I'd put three grand or five grand aside.

And I would say I want to be the kind of guy that buried his father >> and I want to be that guy. But that's just that's for me, right? And I don't know your >> It's not like, oh, I'm better than someone cuz I'm doing this. It's just this is the simplest route to get through this is for me just to deal with it versus getting angry at everyone in my life and saying why aren't they chipping in?

I knew they wouldn't chip in. Well, then you just drank the poison. Yeah.

So, you might decide it's easier for me to just suck it up and pay three grand than it is for me to make seven phone calls that are going to ruin my month.

>> Yeah. >> And then ruin nine Christmases from now.

Because I'm guessing you don't have a great relationship with many people in your family.

>> Not my biological family. No.

>> Okay. >> There tends to be a ripple effect there.

And I'm sorry you're dealing with that. And that's at the root of all of this is you're frustrated. You're sad.

>> You're you need to grieve the fact that you should have a relationship with your family. Like that's crazy to not be able

to have a healthy relationship with your biological family and yet that was taken away from you for things that were out of your control. Right.

Mhm. >> Yeah. Be heartbroken and then go.

>> This is just a reminder of that. >> Do the scary impossible right next thing. >> So if you're George and I would probably get through that 20,000 bucks as fast as we possibly could and we would save up an emergency fund for 3 to 6 months. I am an anxious guy so I like the six to seven month emergency fund.

And inside of that would be the money I needed to bury somebody that I'm estranged with but that I think is the next right thing to do. That's the path. >> And if it happens before you're debtree, just pause the debt snowball. Save up as much as you can as fast as you can and get through this.

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Megan is in Tulsa up next. How can we help today, Megan?

>> Hey. Um, all right. So, my husband and I

are um completely debtree except for our

house. Um, we still owe about 133,000

on this primary mortgage, but we have

purchased land and are planning to build

a new home. And um in discussions with

the lender, they have informed us that

um after we provided all of our documentation and all of that that um

and the cost breakdown for the build, they said that they were going to require us to take out a second mortgage

on our home to ensure that when we sold

this primary residence to move into our

new home that we would do a lumpsum buy

down or pay down on that new construction loan mortgage permanent mortgage. >> Okay. So, it's risk management on their side. They're trying to protect themselves. >> So, yes, which I understand that, but um

wondering is that an Yeah, I don't I have no interest in doing that. Um I'm trying to you know, >> is this the lender that you currently have a mortgage with? So, no, but but

they have looked at our finances and one of the things that they told us when when we first started having this conversation about this new loan, they said they would love our business um for our so my husband and I own our own business and when we provided our financials and how much we our income and what our business is doing. Um they

said that they wanted to court us to bring their our business over to them.

uh like our per like we use a different bank for our >> run your business through their bank.

>> Yes. And so part of that I was like well

that's flattering but I don't really care what a bank thinks. But um but then in this new conversation yesterday they said they want a second mortgage and they're going to require us to do banking with them. >> Walk away. Walk away.

>> Yeah. Walk away. Yeah. They're not the only >> dog in the fight here. Why don't you just shop around? >> Right. Or can you put pause on this?

Because my guess is they're saying this is risky on our part for some reason.

>> Well, here here's my real guess. My real guess is that y'all talked to a loan officer at some stature in that bank and they made you a bunch of promises because they get paid on how many accounts they open. And then when your loan went to loan committee, they said, "We think this small business is a risk.

We don't think these people have enough cash for this. We've had too many people

sell their house on a new build and they get their all the equity, but then they go go to Paris for two months with that money. Like whatever the thing is, right? >> And so I just want to let's pretend everybody's in good faith. The salesman was trying and the loan committee was

like, there's no way I'm I'm putting this through without a whole bunch of >> underwriting just got their, you know, their spidey senses. But at the end of the day, I'm not going to do business with somebody that is gonna force me to take out a a loan and like I'm just not gonna do that. >> They're trying to tell you, >> I mean, I understand mitigating their risk, but I feel like you're going to make money off of my but my money that I deposit with my business, but then it's not about that. It's it's about they're trying to do business at the expense of you and your husband's value set, and I'm not going to do that.

>> Right. Right. Well, is is my other question with that is is that an indication that we have over budgeted what we should be. >> That was what I was trying to get at.

>> That's my thought. >> Is if they're spooked by this, it tells me there's something with these numbers that gives them pause. So, that's what I want to ask you. Is the land fully paid off?

>> Yeah. So, yes, but like here's my here's my here's what why this was kind of like

a frustrating thing. You know, we have a lot of friends who have done this, right? Done the same thing. and um they have had to sell their current home and they like during the construction, you know, a lot of people like live in a rent house during while the home is being built um because they need that money, the equity that it is in their current home or they like, you know, put a camper on the land and live there or build a shop and live in the shop while the home is being built or, you know, all these different creative options.

equity that we weren't going to have to do that. So, >> it sounds like your impression was incorrect. You know what I mean?

>> Well, well, now I'm wondering like I guess I need to shop around what >> what's this new build going to cost?

>> So, our So, that's the other part. My husband is in the construction industry.

He's actually a construction owners rep.

He's done mostly commercial work, but he um so he does this for a living. So he is very kind of prides himself on um

coming in under budget, which is kind of unusual in the construction world. So he has conservatively estimated our build to be 750 with a 7% contingency.

And um so I'm wondering if we need to

just like nail down a more accurate less conservative and more just like real hard numbers for our >> that that does that doesn't matter. I mean they're going to they're going to come through and say well that's cool that y'all think that's what that's going to be but we're going to budget for a million. What matters to a bank is how much money are you asking them to loan you? >> How long are they out for it?

Because this construction process who knows how long it could take. things fall through all the time with these new builds. And so that there's just a lot more risk with construction loans. And that's why the terms are more stringent, higher rates, all of that until you convert it to a traditional loan.

>> And so that might mean, hey, we need a pause in this build. We need to stack up more cash. We need more equity in our home. I'm not sure what that is for you that would make a, you know, construction lender feel more comfortable with this scenario.

But I would shop around and uh you can always call our friends at Church Hill.

here's what we would do. Here's what our current, you know, rates are. And that'll at least give you a better picture of what you're dealing with versus this one lender that you talk to.

>> And can I tell you something crazy that it's not going to be apples to apples, but I think I might be close.

I have a PhD in counseling.

People from all over the planet seek and ask my opinion on what they should do next in their marriages and their mental health and whatever.

My wife does not.

She pays a therapist in Nashville that she sees. >> And why do I tell you that?

>> Um, your husband may do this for a living for other people.

It may be worth a handshake and a 5% deal to get another GC.

>> Yeah, we've talked about that. Yeah. and and and it may not be the the 10% that GC's normally do and he may owe somebody a favor and they can high five or whatever, but there's something about being so close to him trying to make his wife's dream home come true on the land and the chickens and the goats and all the stuff you'all have planned >> that um it's going to cloud the reality.

>> And so the greatest gift I can give my wife in our house is not to counsel her ever. Ever.

Actually, that's that's funny you say that because that was one of our conversations about a month ago was we either need to hire an employee for our business um or we need to hire a builder because we've just have these dreams and plans and we've had the we've had the blueprints and the ar you know the drawings ready and >> he he we just keep having so much business which is fantastic but he's um

concerned about having the time to build it. So actually he's the one coming to me saying >> I have a lot of peace about just hiring someone to do this. That is a man that rarely exists in the 21st century. Hug him. Don't ever let him go and hire somebody. >> That's called self-awareness and humility. We need more of that.

>> Oh, totally. He's He's all of that. Um I'm actually the cheapkate trying to save us a buck, trying to feel like I think we can do this. >> Listen, you have married Well, >> you're the right subcontractor. >> It's worth the 10%. What What was like what's going to be your taxable income for the year from this business for 2025?

So last year it was around uh 3.95 and

this year we're looking to do about 420.

>> Incredible. That top line or is that take-home?

>> Uh that's well that's top that's topline

but we have a very low overhead business. I mean we basically use gas and um computer software stuff.

>> Yeah. But y'all are depreciating out all of your trucks and your computers and all your equipment, right? No, I mean, well, yeah, we have two laptops and um >> What what what would you what did you pay taxes on last year? The amount?

>> Uh 395.

>> Nice. >> Okay. They'd give you a million dollar. >> What's your current house worth?

>> 350. >> Okay. So, you have owe >> a decent amount of equity here, but this money I feel like is newer to you guys.

And so, therefore, the banks are still like, "Hey, there's not like you don't have a half million dollars in equity."

So to go 750 is a big number.

>> We only owe we only owe 133 left on our

primary and our plan was to just pay this off. >> Yeah. But >> while we were building, >> but but if you're if you're going with to to a meet with a bank and your husband's a surgeon and you're a surgeon, they're going to say, "Cool. We see a projection here." If y'all are a small business that does construction, you may do 400 topline one year and 75 topline next year.

Cuz that's more like a farming. It's like great years, tough years, great years, tough years. They're going to be possibly more conservative conservative about what they loan you out. >> Yeah.

But I would call our friends at Church Hill Mortgage and uh get a third party opinion from them.

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Isaac is in Houston, Texas. Up next, one of John Deloney's favorite places. What's going on, Isaac? >> Htown. >> Uh, how you doing, guys? Um, yeah, I'm Isaac. I'm 20 years old. Uh, and I just

got engaged uh about two weeks ago.

>> Congratulations. Right on. Yeah. So I this is more of a

emotional spiritual question I guess than a financial one. But um so my my

parents they're they're divorced and and I think they're very smart people but uh

they're kind of against me getting

married and I like I like to you know

talk to them, take their advice on a lot of things but I just don't know about this one. They they kind of don't want me to get married with with the person I

am with. And it's not >> Yeah. What's at the root of this? Is it your age or is it the person that you were engaged to? They they don't see them as a long-term quality person >> or they just both went through hell during their divorce and they just are they don't want anyone to ever do that ever again. >> So, so it's my age and what Dr. John

just said, you know, it's it's um part

partly they think I'm too young and and partly because they've been through their own experiences. They think it's a riskier bet to get married this young to this person.

>> Yes. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> I am 20 years old. I turned 20 this October. >> Okay. And so tell me, man. Tell me and George, why do you want to get married? Why is this person the person you're going to be ride or die with for the rest of your life? >> Well, we we've been living together already for about uh 6 months. And I

know it goes against your guys' advice, but yeah, that's what we've been doing.

>> Yeah, but that's like six months that you didn't answer my question. And you just told me a thing you're doing. Why do you want this person to be your ride or die for the rest of your life till death do you part?

>> Well, she's just a great person. She takes care of me well. She's, you know, very, you know, even though we're not married, she's been acting like a like a really great wife and is just a person I see in my future. >> How long you guys been together?

>> Uh about two years. It's been a little over two years. >> And how old is she?

>> She's about to turn 21.

>> Okay. And do you guys have any you just got engaged? When do you plan on getting married? How long is this engagement going to be? >> Uh not too long. We wanted to get married before the end of the year, actually. >> What's the rush? >> What's the rush?

>> Uh not necessarily any rush. It's just we've already been together. Like we've been living together and we kind of wanted to already like, you know, be together and we kind of It seems to me

that we've already kind of been engaged but not really.

But >> so here here's here here's several things I'll throw at you. Okay. And I'm in the middle of working on

a multi-year project on this question.

Is marriage still worth it?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And um here's what I'll tell you.

The data is pretty clear. And I know there's some conversations about causal versus correlation and yada yada.

Couples who are in good or great

marriages, every facet of their life is better

>> financially, healthwise, emotionally,

their kids, kids who grow up in the home of married parents whose uh and they're actually broken the data down from married to cohabitating all of it.

Everything in your life, you'll have more sex. Everything in your life will be better. Mhm.

>> And if you are married not well or

poorly, every part of your life is worse. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, it's one of those things that I feel myself screaming from the rooftops, everyone needs to do this thing and do it well. And we have a culture that has sold us that the worst thing we can do is limit our options.

And I would say the freedom that most people are chasing when it comes to getting money, getting fame, getting seen, having quoteunquote a bunch of options is found in commitment, but only in commitment done well. Why am I telling you all that? Your parents lived experience is real.

>> Mhm. >> Their health was ripped apart. Their psychology was ripped apart. Their their money was ripped apart. They watched their kids get splintered up. Their experience is real. And so when they tell you you shouldn't do this thing because we tried it and it blew up our home, that's a real experience and I want to honor that.

>> And I want to tell you that I hope for your sake, for your kids' sake, for your wife's sake, for the world my kids are growing in end in up. I wish more people like you would have a mind towards being married. Okay. And figuring out how to

do this thing well. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> I will tell you this.

You have a very limited toolkit right

now. >> Mhm. >> And if you think being married is well, it just kind of feels that way and we've been 6 months, you are going to get smacked right in the nose by reality.

>> Mhm. >> If you go into this thing saying, "We're going to need help from every loving adult in our life on how to do this thing well, and I'm going to have to learn new skills. I'm going to have to learn how to say I'm sorry. I'm gonna understand that five years from now I'll be married to a totally different woman and she'll be married to a different man because we're going to grow. If you can go into it that way and seek intensive

premarital counseling to have conversations about budgets etc.

Then I would say if my 21 if my son was 21, he came home and said, "Dad, I met the person five years ago." I would have said, "Bro, don't do this. Wait till you're 25. Live a little." What I would change my tune now after look living it all looking at all the data. I would say this is the greatest most important decision you're going to make. I will support you every step of the way, but you have to go into it very humbly.

>> Okay. So, I think your parents are right >> and I want you to do this thing.

Mhm. >> You get what I'm saying? Both are true.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So, tell me I I think it's I I would tell you just as a guy who just met you, I think this is too fast to try to cram us in before the beginning of the year.

>> Mhm. >> Only because you're telling me, well, it just feels like we've already been doing it, so we might as well. That's a terrible reason to enter into a lifelong till death do us part right at eye commitment. >> Yeah. What I'd like to add to that is I I was thinking about it already for a longer time. You know, even before we moved in together, but I was, you know,

I had I I've lived with my parents and

my whole life they've been telling me, you know, that marriage is a scary thing. So, I was scared of it for a long time. And and you know, I I just kept

listening to your guys' I know, but listen to me. Listen to me. Sorry.

Just because your dad was a boxer and he got knocked out and told you to be scared of boxing.

>> Mhm. >> Just because you suddenly think I'm not scared of boxing anymore. Does not mean you should get in the ring without a bunch of skills.

>> Okay. >> I would love to see you I'm glad that you're interested in getting in the fight. I need more men getting in the fight, but I also need more men to get in the in the fight with skills. I would much rather see you say, "I want to formally propose to you and we're going to get married in June and we're going to start premarital counseling January 2." >> Okay?

>> So that we're on the same money, on the same page with our money, with our values, with our whatever we begin having those hard conversations because here's what you're going to have to do.

Mhm. >> And that's going to be a challenge because when you open your when you get the first fight, when you get the first um lost job, you get the first car that breaks down in the middle of, you know, of of the beltway there in Houston, you're going to open your toolkit and the tools in there are going to be the ones your parents put in there by their marriage. >> Okay? >> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> So, Isaac, it's less about a specific age. It's about alignment on values.

know my values. I didn't know myself.

And so that's the part that we're encouraging you to dig into for yourself and for her to make sure that you're aligned on family, kids, in-laws, you

know, whatever it is, politics, how are we going to raise what are all the decisions and the filters we're going to use to do this? Because that's the part where it's going to bite you in the butt down the line to go, "Oops, she I just like the PB&J she made me. I never thought to ask about XYZ over here." And in the early stages of any relationship, man, it is just gumdrops and rainbows. I remember I didn't fight with my wife for like the first year and a half we were together and I was like, "This is a match." >> My wife and I barely made it two and a half weeks before we were like, "Yeah, we screwed this up." Like, so every couple's different.

are we aligned on politics, whatever. My wife and I aren't. We're not aligned. We we go to the same church, but we have different beliefs about stuff. And I think that's awesome. It took me 15 years to learn how to share um a home with somebody that we had the same values but we had different beliefs.

>> And so I want you to get in and you start learning some of those skills and go into this thing humbly. So yeah, I hope you get married, dude. I really hope you do. And I hope you go change your whole family tree.

And before you do that, I hope you get a bunch of skills along the way. Dan, a lot of premarital counseling. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University to help you with the money side. That's some of the best premarital counseling you can get when it comes to finances.

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Not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Marissa in Illinois. Marissa writes, "I'm a stay-at-home mom and love having that role in our home, but in our marriage, the root of all of our arguments and problems is money. I'll admit it. I like nice clothes, makeup, shoes, and purses.

I love going out and getting coffee. We own our home but want to make some renovations, and my spending has gotten in the way of making that a reality.

I've always been a spender and before I got married, my dad would put money in my account when I didn't have any. My husband would like to keep my personal expenses under Geez. My husband would

like me to keep my personal expenses under $2,500 a month. And I know it's doable, but why is this so hard for me?

Wow. I I see two things here. One is an

addiction, and the second is enabling from dad. And now she's putting that on the husband. this is your role now to put the money in my bank. >> Well, I don't see it as much as her she's saying like my husband's given me a reasonable allowance of $2,500.

>> He seems like he's very level. He's going, "Well, can you do it under 2500?" And she's like, "We'll see." >> Yeah, I I I think so. Um >> that's some people's entire budget. All of their expenses they fit under that.

>> Yeah. So, um Marissa, my tone my my my tune has changed on this the last few years.

I four years ago, if you'd asked me this question, I would have thought it very important to dig into the root of your spending addiction, the root of your why

you can't keep a budget, why um you are

struggling financially and you're having disagreements except you keep spending money on purses and shoes and things like that. I'm changing my tune on that.

I think if you want to make a behavior change like this, um, the best way right

now for you is to act your way into changing your life. What do I mean by that? Before you get an answer to quote unquote, "Why is this so hard for me?" Stop spending money. And what do I mean

by that? Get rid of your debit card.

Hide it. Put it in a safe. Give it to your husband. Tell him to take it to the to the office. But stop spending money.

And when you feel that discomfort, feel it. And have one or two things that you promise yourself, make a commitment that you're going to go do when you feel that discomfort. When you begin to say, I need to go buy some shoes. You don't.

You got all the shoes you need. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go call a friend. I'm going to have a set of actions that I go do because I'm finding people, George, who spend all of their time, why? Why? Why? I need to go see another therapist for five years. I need to go do another personality exam.

I need to go to another silent retreat and all that. All that stuff's good, but it's one year, two year, five years, seven years, and the same behaviors are just hanging around. And I'm becoming more and more convinced both through the data and just walking with people the last four or five years. The greatest gift you can give your body is the lived expense of A, I didn't spend any money last month and I didn't die.

B, I didn't spend any money the last six months. I say any money, you know what I I didn't buy any new shoes, any new purses, any new guns, any new whatever.

I've had to deal with the root of that issue and that's worth spending the money on for various things. So, um, if

you have a chemical addiction, obviously you got to go to rehab or whatever, but Marissa, I want you to put up some insanely high hurdles that make it borderline impossible for you to spend money right now. Have that level of discipline, >> which means deleting the apps off your phone, removing the card info.

the phone and get rid of the phone. Get a flip phone. I'm talking about being constantly. >> Yeah. I'm guessing a lot of this is happening while scrolling.

>> Yes. >> And so that's that could solve a whole lot of problems. >> Create um some rhythms and routines where you go hang out with other stay-at-home moms throughout the week so you're not just sitting at home in a box by yourself scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. But yeah, if it means getting a flip phone, get a flip phone.

And if you find yourself like, "Oh, if I don't have social media, I got no human or AI interaction at all." Great. then that's the tension's that doorway. Go into that tension and go find some friends. But um you have to put some serious hurdles in front of you so that it purifies what the real problem is.

It distills it down and now I got to go solve that.

would be my exper would be my guess.

>> There's a root cause of all this.

>> Another thing out there is going to make me upset. >> Like why another outfit? cuz my wife stays at home.

So, this is impressive enough that she's had can accomplish this. But the budget is going to be the key here cuz you guys clearly don't have one because you're saying, "Hey, my spending is stopping us from saving up for renovations." Well, the makeup money should not be renovation money. We need to separate all this out in a budget. You can download every dollar and make a line item for Marissa that says $2,000

Marissa fund money. Whatever. If you guys make 20 grand and that's how you want to spend your money, go for it. But then we need another line item for renovation syncing fund and we put $2,000 a month into that account. So there's >> I would say the first three months, make that $200 >> really for a cup of coffee, right? and

really challenge yourself on what is this drive that I have to fix this momentary feeling of I'm not enough or

I'm bored or I'm scared and it's I'm going to go buy something. Click buy, click, buy, click, buy, click. Um because she's she's already moved on before the shoes even arrive.

>> Oh yeah. >> Right. >> Because it's not about she didn't actually want that pair of shoes. It was a >> dope. Build up the build to build the build the build and then boom. >> If if a box doesn't show up at the door, I I can't feel anything that day.

>> Well, I don't even think this is about the box showing up. If I think it's about hitting the button, the ah >> all of it, the whole experience.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my goodness. >> Put some really high hurdles in front of yourself. >> Yeah. And for anyone working the baby steps who wants to hit their money goals, Every Dollar is the best tool to do it. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money to work the plan even faster. You can start Every Dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Danielle is in Vancouver up next. What's going on, Danielle? How can we help today?

Hi, I'm super nervous, but my question is, are we foolish to consider moving

provinces for what we would consider a good financial gain and freedom to do the things as a family? Now, >> that's a pretty good pitch.

>> Sounds awesome. What are we missing?

>> Okay, so my family is here. Uh, most of

them. And um so we would be leaving my

family and actually my husband's family um here for a province where we have

friends but no family. Um >> for some people that would be the greatest healthiest thing to do and for some people that would be a nightmare. So you have to ask yourself that.

>> Yes. And I feel like we're

my husband's good to go. It's me. I come

from a really big family and um we've

had >> How far away is >> my siblings are here? Um so at BC to Alberta. >> Okay. What's the like what's the driving distance?

>> Oh uh >> if you were to visit >> 10 to 12 hours. >> Okay. No that's how far it is from >> two or three times a year. >> Yeah.

And when we moved from my whole family and my wife's whole family live in Texas, all of them. And so when we moved across the country to Nashville, across the US to Nashville, we built into our life for this to work for us, we've got to have this many trips back a year and we have to save that amount of money, >> right?

that we would want we would want to do.

>> Okay. What's your question?

>> So we pull the trigger.

>> You've got to be a big kid on this one.

>> What are the implications here? I mean, are jobs, housing, like what's what what's gonna change? >> So, it's cheaper. So, job-wise, my husband's a nurse. Um, and I'm currently not working. Um, we just had a baby last year, but I'm currently not working, and I would not be able to do my job full-time. I'd have to drop down to casual or part-time.

>> Okay. Um, >> do you need the family support around your new baby?

>> Um, well, in order for me to work full-time, yes. or we would have to have a nanny.

>> Okay. Can I throw this at you?

>> Yeah. >> Anytime I'm faced between an eitheror decision, I always force myself to put three or four new options on the table just for fun.

>> Can I throw a third option for you?

>> Okay. >> What if y'all just made a 24-month agreement? We're going to try this. A 12-month agreement. He's a nurse. He could easily get a job back in the old province. Y'all could get another place back in the old province. You'd be fine.

>> You're making this into a forever move.

And that the weight of that decision is daunting. What if you just said, "All right, let's let's go do it for 12 months. Let's try that." >> That's just that's just a thought. >> It's reversible. It's not fatal. So, go for it. And if you hate it, you can always come back home. And so, I would sit down, make the budget, make sure the numbers make sense.

>> Every decision comes at a cost. You're going to lose some stuff. You're going to gain some stuff.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my co-host Dr.

John Deloney. The number to call is88255225

if you want to join the show. Kenna is in Denver up next. What's going on Kenna?

>> Hi there. I just have a question looking for some advice. Um, should I prioritize

going to school now if I ultimately want

to be a stay at home mom?

>> How old is How old are you now? What does now mean?

>> I am 24. I just got married a couple months ago. Congratulations. I do have a bachelor Thank you. Um, I do have a bachelor's degree already and I was planning on going to physician assistant school, but but now after just talking and the expense of that versus something

else like nursing is kind of where I'm going down with the route I'm going down now. >> So, let me ask you a crazy question. Can you afford nursing school right now?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I think so. >> Afford as in you could cash flow the whole thing without delaying or derailing other financial goals.

Yeah, that's it's

I guess that's kind of where I'm like stuck because my husband does have some student loan debt as well um from

undergraduate. He has about 40,000 because we have about 40,000. Um but I could go to nursing for about 20 um,000.

>> I would this is me and George may disagree so this is just me. I would do that. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. And what is the upside for you?

What got you thinking, man, I really want to go back to school, pursue this?

>> Yeah, just I always imagine myself doing

something more. I I wish I would have gotten a nursing degree before, but that's neither here nor there. Um I I

just want to do more. I'm a medical assistant now. I just want to be more involved with patient care. And of course, I do want to be a stay at home mom, but then eventually the kids are going to be gone and and that part of our life is going to be over in terms of them being in the house. Um,

>> just now is better than later.

>> I've spent my career working with some of the most amazing, brilliant women in

the world. >> Yeah. And I have been stunned by women who

I figured I would be working for or I was working for, right, or about to. And suddenly they're like, "No, dude. I had a baby. I'm out of here." And I'm like, "What? Really?" >> And I've been stunned by the people who

are lifelong dedicated. I'm stay at home mom, stay at home mom. And they're at home six months and they're like, I no, not for me.

>> Right. That's what I worry about for sure too because of course I don't know that life yet. >> And can I give you one other ugly like just reality just cuz you called me. Is that cool? >> Definitely. >> Um my wife and I had some very clear plans on having a family.

>> Mhm. >> And my son took three and a half years followed by miscarriage one, two, three, and then my daughter came.

>> Mhm. >> And so we had very clear plans. We got our doctorate degrees. We had our careers and then we were going to start doing this next thing. and it did not work on our timeline, >> right? I worry about that, too.

>> And I would love for you to do the next right thing for you right now in this season and keep your amazing options and plans open. And if you want to be a stay at home mom, you need to get your student loans paid off. You got to cash flow nursing school. You got to do that stuff in the right way so you can prepare for a life with one income because that's your values. And also at the same time be honest about it may not happen on our timeline,

>> right? >> Or it may happen tomorrow, right? Like but I don't want you to wake up in 10 years and say I've been waiting for this thing to happen.

>> Mhm. >> Right. >> Yeah. Totally. And I guess Yeah. That that >> waiting it's like you either wait to have a family or wait to go to school.

And that's that's kind of where I'm at.

Like >> what's your current total debt load right now?

Um, total debt load is 40,000. That's

all student loans. >> Is that including his though? >> Um, that is Yeah, that's only his. I

don't have any student loans. >> Okay. I'm just wondering,000.

>> You cleaned up your If you almost planned like, hey, I'm we want to plan to have a family in the next year or two. We're going to plan to just kind of get a clean slate financially. We're going to work on knocking out his debt. I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing versus going further, you know, in

the hole or trying to cash flow this while keeping the debt around. And then you get down the path and you go, "Okay, now I want to stay at home, but now we're too deep in this." So, I just don't want to get to a point where you're at this weird crossroads and >> you have to give one thing up for the other, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the other

part to it is that we did get some wedding money and we are able to save my entire paycheck. We do have enough money

to pay off the loans cash right now.

>> Do it today. >> Um >> today. >> Okay. >> Because what you're calling about is I want options and becoming debtree faster is going to give you more options.

>> Okay. >> Not holding on to the money for when some random day comes. >> Not doing anything now. >> Cuz if you free up that debt, well, now we can cash flow and save up 20 grand to cover this program pretty quickly, couldn't we? >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. We Yeah, it would.

And then how long is the program?

>> Six months. Um it's 24 months.

>> Yeah, it' be it'd be two years. And um

this is one of those crazy like things that people don't think about.

If you have a nursing degree and you choose to stay home, you know who the greatest beneficiary of that degree in the world would be?

That new baby.

>> Right. You don't know drama until you

saw me see a rash for the first time and I WAS LIKE, "OH, THIS IS IT. RIGHT.

>> RIGHT. >> And I was the one calling my buddies who who are doctors and nurses in at in the middle of the night being like, "My kid," and they're like, "Oh, God, go to bed. You're an idiot." Right. >> Yeah. >> So, that's a skill set that won't be wasted if you use it for your friends and family or if you use it professionally. It's an amazing skill set to have, >> right?

>> Right. And it see it just seems I don't know. I'm convincing myself more and more every day that it's better over, you know, PA, you can make more money eventually, but the debt load is so huge

and I just don't think it's right for where we're at right now.

>> I love that thinking. >> And there's it's not like you can't go pursue this two years from now. It's not going to disappear as an option. >> Yeah. >> And I think you'll have a lot more clarity two years from now. So there's nothing wrong with delaying it. I'm I'm sort of team let's delay it if you're gungho on, hey, we want to try to have a family now, >> right? And I have a lived experience of let's do a have a like George had a baby.

I don't want to be weird. They got pregnant fast. We did not. Right. And so my plan just didn't wasn't in the cards for a while.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And also you can get a year you can get a semester of nursing school in that you've paid for in cash and then take a leave of absence to have a baby. That's no big deal.

>> That's true. I hadn't thought about that either. >> So here's the the the crux of it.

Whether you delay it, whether you do it now, I would get out of debt completely and only do this if you're going to cash flow it. >> Put yourselves in a good financial position to where you have options and you have less risk, less stress, cuz that's always going to help you think more clearly and make the right decision for your family versus, well, we can't do this >> because we owe people money or we don't have the savings. >> Yeah. And that's like my ultimate fear is like everything's open right now and as soon as you have so much debt, it's like, "Oh, I actually can't >> exactly >> do the things I want to do." >> Yes.

>> Right. >> Well, we can't make the decision for you, but I have full faith that Ken is going to make the right one for her and her family when that time comes.

>> Yeah. And there's I I've sat with soing

moms who are pregnant who have to go back to work and they don't they didn't want to but they owe somebody money. And I've also sat with people who are like, "We can kind of do whatever we want. So we're going to do this for a while. I'm going to try that. I'm going to try this." And that just felt like freedom.

>> Oh yeah. Well, people made fun of us. They're like, "Why would you pay off your low interest mortgage early?" And then my wife decided to stay home and went, "That's why." It wasn't a financial decision. It was just an emotional one. Yeah. >> And that's that's one of the most beautiful things in life when you can take the financial burden off the table and then you can kind of do what you want for a while. That's invincibility right there.

John is in Minneapolis up next. John, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hey, how you guys doing, man?

>> Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Good. I'm So, I am a 20-year-old,

like you said. I'm I'm in Minnesota. I need some advice. I've got a good amount

of money saved up in a Roth IRA um that

I'm looking to invest and I >> saved up in a Roth IRA you're looking to invest. So, >> it's invested. >> Is it in like a on the money market side like in in a cash equivalent

>> or is it actually invested? >> Mostly mostly it's just cash. I there's a few thousand invested into it. Uh my mom has been helping me do that because she's very knowledgeable about the stock market. So she's invested a few thousand. I'm not exactly sure where.

But my my plan that I'm wondering is is

it wise to invest the majority or all of it just into the

S&P 500 since that's a historically

great return or is it wiser to

you know go more diverse with it?

>> I mean it that diversity is pretty strong. you got 500 of the top companies

that you're diversified across. Now, it's weighted, so it's not like there's one in each. You know, Apple's going to have more than a smaller company, but uh

yeah, the S&P 500 historically has delivered about a 10 to 12% average rate of return over the last several decades.

And so, do you need to diversify more than that? You know, our recommendation is across four mutual fund types. And this is largely what you'll find in an S&P 500 fund is you want growth,

aggressive growth, growth in income, and international. And that basically means conservative, midway, more aggressive,

and then we've got the international companies out there. And you're going to find a lot of that already in the S&P 500. So, you could do a whole lot worse than doing that. If you just did that, you're going to be a multi-millionaire if you consistently invest in that >> at the age of 20. exactly what I want to do, you know, cuz I I do max it out

every year. Um I have been since I was

uh 15, I think. And >> what's your income? >> Um uh well, you know, it varies. Uh I'm a business owner and I, you know,

currently I don't work a regular job. So

the the income can vary, but it it's

always been enough for me to contribute that.

At 15, how did you max out a Roth IRA?

>> I worked at a restaurant. Um,

>> like a custodial Roth that your parents had set up.

>> It was Yeah, my mom is very helpful with

helping me get my money, you know, as it should be. She was very adamant about that from a young age for me.

>> So, do you make over do you make $100,000? Give me a ballpark here of what you think you'll make 2025. What will your tax taxable income be

>> if I had to guess? Um I mean I am aiming

for it to be around $100,000. There's no

>> there's no guarantee yet. I run a landscaping business. So >> do you invest outside of the Roth IRA or do you just My goal is to max that out and then I'm done investing for the year.

>> Well, uh I don't like to over complicate things. So, personally, I would I would prefer to to

just have one source. So, have the Roth be my investment and then the rest of my money is money I can spend on whatever, put back into the business, etc.

>> Okay. Do you have any debt right now?

>> No, sir. >> Okay. Wonderful. And how much do you have in savings? How much do you have that's more liquid that's not invested?

>> I have just just over 30,000. Way to go,

dude. You're crushing it. >> Thank you. >> So, you would be in what we call baby step four. You're completely debtree.

You have a fully funded emergency fund and now you're able to invest 15% of your income. So, let's say you made 100,000 for easy numbers. We would say invest 15% of that into tax advantaged

retirement accounts. So, 7,000 is the contribution limit for the year. So, what happens after that? What you're telling me is I just sort of do what I want with the rest.

Um, exactly. I mean, you know, I don't

like to be a big spender. I'm not >> good >> buying uh things I don't need. Uh, I

mean, I do spend a decent amount of money a month uh on a credit card, which I pay off every month, but most of this um is gas and it's business related or it's food. So, you know, basic things.

>> Do you live with your family right now?

Fortunately, uh, yes. I live with my dad and that allows me to be able to save this money.

>> What's the long-term game plan? Are you going to continue running the landscape business into your 20s, 30s? >> Yeah, exactly. So, ideally, yes. Um,

I haven't written out a specific plan, which I should, but in the next couple

years, I'm looking to grow it like I have been and eventually get my own

place. But I'm kind of um it's like with

the with the investing, I'm willing to invest all of that money in in the Roth IRA, you know, cuz that's >> I'm telling you, John, you you can't there's contribution limits. So, what I'm telling you is once you go above and beyond that, you can find there's other avenues to invest in a tax advantage retirement account. One would be something like a solo 401k. You could open that as a business owner if you're the only employee.

Uh, and so there's other options I want to encourage you to invest in so that you can build more wealth versus just going, well, I'm going to do the Roth and that's it. And so, I'm going to um get you a investing guide. It's completely free. go to ramiesolutions.com/guide and download that cuz right now I see a guy who works really hard who has a great savings muscle but doesn't have a lot of clarity on what he's doing and why he's doing it >> and I don't want you to invest in things you don't understand and while I love that your mom has this knowledge you need to build this knowledge for yourself and so that would be my next step for you as a guy who has a bunch of money and wants to put it somewhere that it's going to work for him >> okay I will do Yeah.

Well, keep it up, man. If you keep living debtree and you keep maxing out a Roth IRA, even just doing that, go pop it into our investment calculator on our website, you will your mind will be boggled by that. Mike is in Chicago up next.

>> Hey, uh yeah, I was wondering

uh I work 116 hours a week and I was

wondering if there >> there's that many hours in a week.

>> What?

>> Yes. Uh I'm a machine. I'm a machine

operator. >> Okay. >> Is that safe to run the machines?

>> Like, aren't there like legal boundaries around that? >> Uh, we're not on the road or any CDL.

So, okay. >> We're in a we're private property.

>> All right. So, what's your question, dude? Yeah. Private property. We can do what we want. It's America, George.

Geez. Let Mike go. All right. So, what's the question, Mike? Uh, >> my question is I want to make more money than I'm making now, but I don't really have time for side hustles. So, >> what are you what are you making >> uh this year so far? I'm at roughly 273,000.

>> Okay. And what what was the impetus for you saying I need more money?

>> Uh I'm a collector, so like I mean I collect a lot of stuff. Comic books, trading cards, cars, um autograph stuff. And >> so I mean >> historic antiques.

>> Here's what you have to do. Like you know the answer to this because you're smart. you have to do a different job that you think is going to make you more than $273,000.

>> Like there's not a secret here.

>> And also, is this sustainable to be working over 100 hours a week?

>> Because if so, your income is going to drastically go down while your lifestyle is is going to stay high. So, I think we need to reset the picture here and go, what can I do for 40 or 50 hours a week that's sustainable, that pays me enough to live the life I want to live? And by the way, if your life is going to be judged on if you judge your life on how many trinkets you have surrounding you, it's going to be a miserable life.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's just >> So, what what do you make? Do you get paid hourly right now or is it salary?

>> Hourly. >> Okay. What do you make per hour?

>> Uh, what is it? 34 32.

>> But I mean, this means you're getting what? You're kidding.

80 hours a week of of uh overtime

>> just roughly. I think it's what 75 and a half. >> Gosh. So instead of making 32, I'm going what what kind of job in the field that I'm in pays 60 an hour or 90 an hour.

That way I can work 40 hours a week and live to tell the tale to actually enjoy all these trinkets I've collected. >> Or here's another crazy idea. What if, and this is going to be a struggle, you somehow survived on $200,000 a year and

you just stopped buying so many Pokémon cards? >> Yeah, I don't think we need more money, Mike. I think we need to re-evaluate our lifestyle.

Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. Well, good news. Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. So go to ramseyolutions.com/co to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. All right, let's go out to Maine. Karen joins us there. What's going on, Karen?

>> This call will be recorded.

>> Oh, good. Karen, thanks for recording.

We We put this on YouTube. We're recording it, too. You can check this out for eternity.

Hi. >> We're also recording for quality assurance purpose, right? >> Yeah. Well, and honestly, um, I use this to reference back, too.

>> You got it. What's up? >> So, if if that's okay with you.

>> Oh, absolutely.

>> All right. Wonderful. Uh, I am just shy

of 62 years old. Um, I am legally

separated from my husband, uh, with no

chance of it changing. I do not have a

retirement. I do not have a pension or

anything like that. I make roughly $42,000 a year. Uh the only thing that I

am in debt for is a mortgage.

And I have not invested in my work 401k

plan because to be honest with you, I'm scared to death about doing it because I know nothing about it. and they will

match up to 3% of what I put in.

So, this is open enrollment time and

I'm going to invest in 3% so I can get

their 3%.

Uh, because I figured that's free money um to go towards that, but I also want to get my mortgage down um in about 12 years if at all possible.

What's left on the mortgage?

>> Oh, almost all of it.

>> How much is that? Yeah, >> it it started at 80 and I am down to

775.

>> Okay. And a current rate >> I've only been I've only been paying on it since July.

>> Okay. And was this a 30-year or 15?

>> A 30. >> Okay. So, at the current rate you're paying, it'll take 30 years to pay this off. Well, no, not at the rate I'm going

because I'm paying extra on it at every chance I get. So, I've paid I've paid an extra 2,000 on it so far in the six months that I've had it. >> Let me ask you this question before George digs into your numbers. Do you have any sort of financial reconciliation as a part of the separation?

>> No, nothing. I would uh because uh he

ruined his business. Um, there was just

there was nothing there. Nothing there.

We we had only been married at the time for 9 and a half years. So, when I went into the relationship, I walked in with him his home that he priorly prior owned. >> Okay. >> Uh, what I what I did get when I left was two mobile homes that I lived in one for a short time and I rented out the other one. >> Okay. >> But with the way people are nowadays, I ended up I ended up selling both of those. >> Good. So, I have $25,000 in my uh high

yield savings account.

>> Wonderful. >> Right now. Okay. >> Um so, and I don't touch that at all.

>> Okay. George will tell you what to do with that money, but this is um >> Good. That's that's good. Okay.

>> So, how can we specifically help you today? What's the main question?

I don't know what to invest in with this 401k or if I should take that money and just put it onto my mortgage to get it down sooner. >> Well, you would be in what we call baby step four. So, you're out of debt. You have money in savings for emergencies.

So, you're ready to invest 15% of your income into retirement. So, 15% of your $42,000 salary, correct?

>> Yeah. I don't know if I can afford 15%.

Well, you're putting extra on the mortgage right now. Could we divert some of that towards investing?

>> I c I could, but then that's going to slow me down to get my mortgage paid off. >> Okay. Well, here's here's the thing. If you invest nothing, you're going to have nothing. So, I'm try we're trying to get you to a spot where you at least have a little nest egg growing for you with some compound growth. Now, we don't have a lot of time on our side anymore. Uh, but we're going to try to get this mortgage paid off with anything above and beyond that 15%.

But I would not tell you to just put everything on the mortgage you can and don't invest a dime because at the end of the day then you're going to have no nest egg and no mortgage payment which be 75 and selling your house. Exactly.

>> Yeah. Okay. Even though I've got it into a high yield savings which I only earn for >> you will keep up with you will keep up with inflation if you're lucky and so your your buying power is getting lost every day. So the high yield savings at least keeps up with that, but you need to rise above and beyond that in order to actually have wealth, to order to have some extra money, to have your money make money.

And so that 401k, it's it's going to be time to learn what funds are in that 401k and which ones are right for you. >> And for that, I would get connected with a smart investor pro who can sit down with you and walk you through those options and guide you towards doing something that you've never done before, which is understand what you're investing into. I don't want you blindly picking something because someone told you to.

Here's why I'm investing in it.

>> Okay? >> And as a primer on that, you can get our free investing guide at ramseolutions.com/guide.

And that will at least give you some basic information about our retirement investing strategy.

>> But here's a bummer. >> Your picture of retirement is going to look different. >> Yeah. And here's a bummer of this is just us being honest with you because we love you. Okay.

>> Okay. It may be that at 62, while you're still in good health and your mobility is still okay, $42,000 isn't going to

cut it.

It may be that I'm working >> 42,000 isn't going to cut it.

>> That means that if you look at the math problem that is your life, and this is this is taking feelings off the table. This is taking heartbreak off the table. This is just looking at the math problem.

>> Yeah. If you need $500,000 to retire

when you're 75, it may be that you >> I doubt that's going to happen.

>> Well, you'll surprise yourself till the day I die. >> Well, but but it may be that while you can still fly around a little bit at a young Spritley 62, it may be that you make 42 grand and you work another side job on on the weekends.

>> Well, and actually I am working on a side hustle right now to get that started. >> Okay. A side hustle might mean you're investing money into a thing, you're spending money and it becomes a hobby and you're going to look up in two years. Like you don't have that luxury right now at 62, >> right? >> You know what I'm saying? >> No, that the goal for that side hustle was for me to put it all towards my mortgage to get out from underneath it cuz my mortgage interest rate is 625.

>> Yeah, that that's that's a high interest rate, but historically it's not. And it's that's just a lot of like social media drama. Like I want you to focus on the things you can control. Like what's your side hustle?

>> Like what? >> What's your side hustle?

>> Um it's going to be selling things on eBay for my former boss and I get 40% of

whatever I sell.

>> Okay. I want you to try that for three or four months and see how it works out.

>> Made really good money at it. Yeah, he's made really good money at it. Um >> but I don't want you to put a dime into it. I want him to give you the items and you take pictures of them and you deal with the stuff for the 40%.

>> That's that's what I'm doing.

>> And track it against your time and what act what money you actually made from that. Cuz if it's taking you, >> you know, if if you might do the math and go, I'm making $6 an hour by the time I'm done with this. >> You can go to Arby's and double that.

>> Exactly. So, just make sure that whatever you're doing is worth your time. And try to get your core income up. Can we make 50 or 60 or 70,000 with the skills and experience you have?

And I think you just you stop betting on yourself at some point in life. >> George, can you run through your um calculator there? Like the the Ramsay investment calculator. Can you run through if she puts 15% of her money, what does that look like at what age?

>> So Karen, here's the thing. I know you said you don't think you have enough. You need to make this a priority to invest. If you invest 15%, it's about 500 bucks a month.

525 from the age of 62 to age 80. Let's just admit we're going to have to work a lot longer than we planned on.

>> Okay? >> Now, if you go to 75, it becomes 180,000. So, you can see that the power of compound growth needs time. So, those last 5 years really matter cuz that 80, guess what? You contributed about 113,000.

240,000 was just the growth. That was your money making you more money. So, the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. We all know that. The next best time is today. So, don't delay it.

Don't say, "Well, investing is not for me cuz I haven't done it and I'm 62." If you can fog up a mirror, there is hope for you yet, Karen. So, hang on the line. We'll make sure you get connected to a Smart Investor Pro who can walk you through all of this and make sure you get that guide. Listen back to this and let it be a reminder that it's not too late to have a retirement with some dignity.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 13:20.

Walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools suffers harm. John

Bon Joy said, "Don't get too comfortable with who you are at any given time. You may miss the opportunity to become who you want to be." >> Yeah, George. >> There's your inspiration, John. Little Bon Joy. >> That shot through right through my heart. >> And you're too late.

>> All right, Danielle is in Miami, Florida. >> That was some great >> That was impressive. >> I mean, I don't want to say that we're standup comics, but that was pretty good stuff right there. >> Oh, Danielle, save us. How are you doing? >> I'm doing well, thanks.

>> What's up, lady?

So, um I am facing a metastatic cancer.

I'm hoping for the best.

>> How recently were you diagnosed?

>> Uh about 3 weeks ago.

>> Holy smokes. How old are you?

>> 59. >> Jeez. >> And my husband is 65 and we have an 8-year-old. >> Oh no.

I mean, oh, yay. But oh no.

>> Right. >> What's the time horizon they gave you?

>> I'm a planner. I just, like I said, we're hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. And um my husband and I

are thinking that he is the beneficiary

of my 403b from my work that I had.

>> Mhm. and we are thinking he should pay

off our mortgage with that and that will leave him with um social security and

um income from a rental property property that we own free and clear to live off of. >> I can I challenge you on something?

>> I think this is if this is a

If this is a way to manage just the sudden chaos inside your own chest, I totally get it.

But I don't want him making any plans on how he's going to spend money after his wife or if his wife passes. And here's why.

>> Who knows what that world looks like.

I've met people that can't walk back into the home that they were married in

because their spouse doesn't live there anymore. And I don't want to tie anybody down to I promised her, I said I would.

We've moved this money already. I want if if you say, "Hey, I want you're a goofball and I want to have a plan down just so I can say I checked that off my list of things I need to go through because I'm struggling with this diagnosis." I totally get that. But I

also want you to look him in the eye and say, "I'm going to hold this with a very loose fist because who knows how you're going to feel after this thing's over." My rule of thumb is nobody do anything for 6 months to a year after their loved one passes.

>> Okay, >> that's my rule. >> And do we do we continue paying tithe during this time?

>> Continue paying what?

>> Our tithe. >> Your tithe like to your church? >> To our church. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean it the giving is a matter of the heart and it doesn't you know stop unless there is a if there's a storm in your life where you go we can't afford this right now and something takes priority so we can provide for our family >> no one would shame you for that.

>> Yeah. >> But if giving is a part of you and that's what you want to do >> go for it. Don't stop the tithe.

>> What what's what's the what's the terminal nature of this of this illness?

What what stage are you in? How much time do they give you all that? >> It's well we we've got some more testing to do. >> Okay.

Um, it's a melanoma that we know has spread to my lungs and our next step is a PET scan to see if it's anywhere else like the brain. >> Okay. So, that's a tough that's a tough diagnosis you got. >> And I could I mean, you know, I could potentially if the treatment goes well, I could, you know, I could have a long time.

>> Sure. That's right.

I'm worrying about and things I can control right now.

Okay. >> And the things that you're worrying about, write them on a separate list.

Keep them in your phone. Write them on a yellow pad, whatever. And once every few weeks, you and your husband sit down and have him smile at you and get you a cup of coffee and he says, "Go, let them rip." And you just start piling them up.

What if an asteroid hits us? What if the dinosaurs come back? What if Jurassic Park is real? What if the moon landing was fake? Like all that stuff.

>> And what happens? What are you going to do with this fund on this date when I pass away? And then this like get all just do that and then go back to okay

what can we control the day? We can go for a walk outside. We can go play with our 8-year-old. We can take some pictures. We can go to an arcade. We can have some fun. We can go get treatment.

Whatever. You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do you currently have a will in place?

We do, but it needs updating because um

at the time we did it, our son was our

foster son and he wasn't legally adopted yet. >> Please do that ASAP.

>> Yes. >> So, there are some practical things you can do. Like John said, there's some things you can control and making sure that your will is up to date. Making sure that every account has the correct beneficiary on there. Uh healthcare power of attorney, durable power of attorney for your financial decisions.

All of that stuff is important. and you can knock that out this week.

>> My wife has a folder that has every account, every password, every email account, every every everything.

>> And once or twice a year, she reminds me where it is. And >> I remind her where mine is. And it's like all the phone passcodes, the Netflix code, all the stuff. And that

might be a good thing to start putting that together just just for peace of mind for yourself. Right.

>> Right. It it sounds sooner rather than later, but it's not imminent. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, that's okay. I feel, you know, in a lot of ways, the last 30 years have been a blessing because when I was 29 years old, >> I went through a bone marrow transplant for leukemia. >> Oh, good gravy. Last

years have been have been a bonus. You know, >> you've been playing on house money.

So, how have you did? Have you have you had a good a good run?

>> I have. It's been wonderful. And you know, this this little boy came into our lives, you know, seven and a half years ago, and it's just been the joy of our lives. >> You're amazing.

My prayer for you is that they come back

with some positive news after the PET scan and they put you on a good treatment and you get the right surgery and you're you've got another >> long road. >> We're rooting for you, Daniel. Awesome.

Thank you for calling us and trusting us with this. >> All right, let's go out to Linda in Cincinnati. What's going on, Linda?

>> Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

So, um, my father passed away earlier

this year and I've been working through his estate. We're almost done. My mom

called me last week and said, "Hey, in the 1990s, your dad ran up my credit cards. He wasn't providing blah blah blah $10,000. He ran it up and he always

said he would pay it back. Do you think

Can you give me that out of the estate?

Cuz he always said he would pay it back.

This is a real debt. >> Are they divorced? >> I just don't They never got married. >> Okay. How How much How big is this estate?

>> Um medium. Probably our take-home will be

about 95,000.

>> So she's want a 10% cut. to make good

on. >> Yes. >> Wow. That is so wild. I mean, I I don't

think she has any legal claim to this. I doubt there was a contract. This feels like a handshake. He said, she said agreement from the '9s.

>> It sounds like drama. >> So, it would never hold up. But do you like your mom? >> Yeah.

Well, not even that. You know, your mom, if you give her this money, will she just just I I don't mean to be rude. Will she just shut up or will there something else come next month and something else come the month after? >> Well, with interest, it's really 15.

So, I need another five now.

>> Yes. >> Okay, then just say no. >> Very manipulative. Just really showed her too. Enough said. Enough said. Just say no.

>> Say I hate that he did that. >> And she's probably going to raise some help. She's she might Will she come after you with like legal

like like sue you for this money?

>> Has already threatened a little bit of that. She's like, I could put a lean on this property. >> Yeah, she seems like the type. That's what I was getting at. I'm trying to Here's what I'm grappling with.

her property.

>> You could try to pay her off and she goes away, but I think she's going to continue to knock on the door cuz you give her an inch, she takes a mile.

>> She's not going to put a lean on the property. >> Are you selling this property?

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. Put it on the market tomorrow and just be done.

>> I It's It's already in contract. We're supposed to close in like a week.

>> Oh, great. Then just go on about your life.

Well, my question is as a as a Christian, I don't know. Is there any kind of middle road? Can I be like, "Mom, I don't really owe you anything." But as a kind of >> This is between her and a deceased husband. She never actually married. So, >> you don't have a spiritual moral obligation because you don't know if this actually happened and she's made up crap to you about him your whole life.

>> This is not a what would Jesus do scenario. No, this is just do I if I give her 10 grand, will this stop all the madness or will it just spark an open door and I think you know it will open the door.

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## 148. Stop Ignoring The Financial Red Flags In Your Life | November 24, 2025


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:57:24 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

This hour, the number to call is88255225.

It's your show. We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Rihanna is with us in Minneapolis. Rihanna, welcome to the show. >> Hi, thank you so much for having me today. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, so I just have a question for you guys. Um, so was I right to break off my engagement because of long-term money issues and bad spending habits? I've always been disciplined with saving and planning for money, but he struggled with overspending and staying employed.

Now that he's moved out, I've taken on full full financial responsibilities myself. How can I stay on top of my bills while saving and protecting my future? >> Oo, that was like 20 20 things in one.

>> Okay, well, we'll tackle the first part first. So, um, were you right to break this off because of red flags that were not attended to that he clearly this was a value you had.

>> And this is a value every woman has is if I'm going to marry some guy, he's got to be able to do at least two things.

provide and protect, right? That's the reason why we find a mate primally speaking. And you're saying he can't provide for the future. This was red flags that this guy can't hold a job.

He's going to continually go into debt, put us in a financial bind. Therefore, I'm out. And essentially, he opted out of this engagement by continuing these habits that you made clear. Am I hearing that right? >> Yes, that's correct.

>> Wow. >> I mean >> I mean that's your choice. That's your prerogative. I say bullet dodged cuz this is it's either this or a divorce later on.

I'd rather, you know, nip it in the bud while we can. >> Yeah. So many people I would really I mean I wasn't there. I'm just going by what you said, but based on what you said, I would applaud you for it cuz so many people ignore red flags cuz you get so far down the line it's like I can't turn back now and it's kind of like a sunk cost >> or scarier.

>> Well, never gonna happen.

>> Okay. Now, if he called into the show, Briana, what would he say if he were to defend his honor?

>> You know, I I I would say that he he's always tried to maintain a job, but it's just never worked out. Before I previously knew him, he was employed for seven years doing software sales, and now he just can't. Ever since I got together with him, he can't hold a job just because the market's been so unsteady. >> And how long was the entire thing? How how long was the dating and then the the the engagement? Um, total everything was

about two and a half years. >> Listen, I think that's long enough to get a a read on the situation. It's not like this was super fast. I I think that, again, I wasn't there, but you made the choice.

You had enough time to see a track record and you seem like your thoughts are composed. So, I'm going to ride with you on this because you are the one telling us your side of it, and it makes sense to me.

So >> yeah, thank you. >> So what's the second part of the question? >> Yeah, so I would like to be able to better now that I've taken on I've asked him to move out, I've taken on full financial responsibility of like paying our rent and then um while we were together, I purchased a car um because I was able to make up that payment with having him here now that I have >> Hold on, Bonnie. You went into debt during the engagement?

>> Yes. And that was primarily because he kept telling me that I needed a new car.

>> What were you driving before?

>> I was driving a Nissan Ultima that needed quite a bit of maintenance.

>> Got you. And what did you get? What did you >> I got um 2025 Mazda CX70.

>> What do you owe? >> I owe about 50 on that.

>> Shoot. >> What do you make?

>> I make about um about $100,000 a year.

>> That's a lot of car even for your income. >> Is that your only debt or you have more?

Um, I have about uh 15 grand in student loans and then I have like two grand in credit card debt, but that's it.

>> Okay, here's my thing, Briana. I was really team Briana and now the more I hear you, the more I go, I'm not sure you believe in your own principles cuz you wanted this guy to clean up his act financially while you were an accomplice to the crimes.

So, it's like, how am I supposed to take you seriously if I'm the fiance going, you really need to get better with your spending habits and then I'm over here financing a $50,000 car. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's difficult because he drives a a BMW X4M competition. So it

was just that terrible to get a nice car. >> So you were trying to keep up with him and it's his fault. But still lifestyle.

>> It does seem like though it was more Can I I'm a ride on the fence on this. I I hear what George is saying and he is not wrong. Uh but the other part is I feel like you were more on the why doesn't he have a job regularly >> side of things. Is that too >> is the fact that it will this guy be employed or will he be sitting on my couch all day when I come home? Is that Did I get that right?

>> Yeah. And that's kind of what it had been before too. So that's why I had asked him to move out >> because to your I I am playing devil's advocate here. I'm just I'm just letting you know.

>> She got me riled up. That's all I'm saying. She got a plank in her eye and she's looking at the spec and is because here's the thing. There are plenty of people in the world who are fine with debt.

We know that. We don't agree with that. But plenty of people are like, "Yeah, I got my car note, my credit card." For a lot of people, that's not the problem. The problem is when you have somebody who's not working and seems like they might not be able to hold a job and seems like they might be a tad bit lazy.

I could see how that's a bigger red flag to you. Um, in the grand scheme of things, that being said, you can't be the what is it the pot calling the kettle? >> Black. >> Black.

>> Yeah. No, I see both sides. I think you were right to break off the engagement and I think we need to accept a little more responsibility that we weren't quite the angel that we maybe made ourselves out to be and he's the devil here. I think both of you had bad money habits.

money moves and you were looking to him to be a leader and guide you and he couldn't do that. >> He was in a place of weak weakness too.

And so it's hard to fault him for that as much as I want to be like well this guy's trash and you should I think you both have some things to work on. Can we agree? >> Yes. No, I completely agree.

>> And I hope that if you if this is a value you have, I want someone who can provide for me. I don't think that means I want someone who can float my lifestyle no matter what and afford a payment. I want you to reframe this and go, how can I put myself in such a good financial position? Then when I do meet the right guy, we are building wealth together instead of just making stupid decisions together.

>> And there's part of this where if let's say you, you know, you've you've broken it off, you guys have gone your separate ways. If it's meant to be, you could go get back together. Like you could give him a that could have been the kick in the butt that he needed to go out and really show and prove who he's going to be because the truth is you've just never seen it.

want to see. You don't want all the talking. You want somebody to be about it. >> I love that Jade is not giving up on love here. Is there is there a shot this could still work, Bion, or is this like long gone? >> You know, we've tried to make it work.

Um, we still like sometimes see each other and stuff, but it's just I don't see any motivation from him to want to be better. Um, he's determined to get a job that's been in the process of about six weeks now, and he still >> has he been doing any kind of work?

>> Um, no. >> What's he doing all day?

>> I don't know.

>> I think you better cut it loose.

>> Yeah. >> Well, the writing was on the wall, Briana. And uh the good news is you're going to be real busy cleaning up this mess of your own for a while. And I think you also we need to own up to the fact that we made a lot of decisions that were codependent and hinging on someone we weren't married to.

>> I can make the rent as long as he pays.

I can make the payment as long as he's in my life. And I think all of that is why we tell people never combine financial lives or for that matter physical lives living together before you're married. It just gets too messy because this could be on the other side.

Mhm. And yeah, now you're going to now you're going to feel that being the only one covering that rent.

>> Yeah, I'm wishing you the best as as you clean this up. Personally, I would sell that car as soon as possible. I wouldn't even work on paying it off. I would get rid of it. There's no reason you you need to be driving a $50,000 car walking out of this mess. So, best of luck to you, Briana.

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>> Jeremy is up next in Boisey. What's going on, Jeremy?

>> Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call. >> Yeah, what's what's going on? Um, my wife and I keep fighting about money.

Um, she's hardcore on the Dave Ramsey plan. Uh, I support it. I believe it.

I'm doing all the things that I feel like I should be, but I want to spend money on stuff that she doesn't agree with and it's causing fights and I don't want to get a divorce over it.

>> But I also want her to kind of lighten up a little bit and have a little bit of fun with some money. Where should I go with this? because I know I'm wrong for spending the money, but I don't want to just not spend any money.

>> Give us some examples. How much are you spending per month and on what? And she feels like that's out of control.

>> Well, we both um spend money, but hers

is more like regulated. Um, mine is on

I'm restoring an old car and >> I'm I keep spending, you know, it's like it's it's almost done, but I'm probably about $10,000 away from having it completely like finished.

>> Do you guys have an aotted money that you get each month?

>> Each of you? >> Uh, no. We both work.

>> I know. >> But we're saying in the budget, is it like Jeremy's fun money, her fun money, and it's $100 each? You know, like what is what's the plan there? Or is it just Jeremy spends what he wants based on the parts he needs?

>> That's basically what's been happening.

>> Okay. >> I understand her frustration now. It's just like you're spending like Congress while you're trying to get out of debt and she's going, "This is going very much against the plan we agreed on." >> So when you're saying you support her, it sounds like you're like, "I'm a fan of her doing it, but I'm not doing it." >> Yeah. I think >> there's a middle ground that you can get to. I think there's a middle ground.

What's the urgency for this uh car restoration?

>> Uh it's been 17 years in the works and

it's almost done. So I'm trying to finish it. >> So what's 18 instead of 17?

>> Right. I get it. >> What has stopped you, I guess, in the past of finishing this?

>> Just not working, you know, like I worked in the movie industry for a long time and there there's highs and lows and when the highs are up, you're you make a lot of money and it's great. when the lows are there, you're living off savings for months. And it kind of

forced me to choose to pay my bills or restore this car. And I chose bills. But now I'm at a point where we're pretty much good. We cover the bills every month. We're still putting into retirement. You know, we have life insurance policies. We have all that stuff in place. >> Um contributing >> a little bit. How much? About 20 about 20,000 in credit card debt, but that's fairly recent. >> That's it. >> Um >> that's Yeah. That's a lot.

>> I don't know what kind of town you grew up in, but $20,000 at 29% APR is enough

to get me to stop restoring that car.

>> Yeah. What's your income?

>> Uh, together we're making about 120 to 130,000. We owe 190 on our house. It's worth 3/4 of a mill. We have two car payments. Mine's about 3 years from being paid off. Hers is brand new, 25 Suburban. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> what's the total debt outside of your mortgage if you added it all up?

including the cars 125.

>> So 125,000 in debt total and you make

130. How long is it going to take based on her plan for you guys to get out of this mess?

>> If we did it her way, it' take us about two years. Um, and if we do it my way, it' take probably three or four.

>> And you're just not So you're just not You don't see why you have to do it so quickly, right?

>> That's I I support like all of the decisions. I just I don't want to I don't know if it's a midlife crisis because I'm 47 and I'm like I need to finish this car before I die. Like >> okay >> like I've been working to I've drugg this car around the country for decades and I just want to I want to drive like the engine's done. It's ready to go in.

I just need like brakes and suspension parts. >> How much does it cost to finish it?

>> About 10 grand for that's including the paint job. >> 10,000 to finish. You want to know what I would do if I were in your shoes?

Because >> Yes. Um, I want to be really thoughtful about this because the truth is I wish that you were 100% Ramsay because I know the plan works. I've seen and talked to hundreds of thousands of people and we know that it's worked for millions of people. So, I know that it works.

However, the reality is and like the just living in reality is there's sometimes that people are like, "Hey, for me it's just it's just not on fire like that." And like like you you opened with this is not a reason to divorce your spouse, right?

this work together? that point, >> right? And and that's not good. So, >> here's what she's seeing. Let me show you her side. She's seeing a guy who is choosing a hobby of car restoration over the strength and stability of their marriage and finances. That's what she's seeing. >> Mhm. >> And I can't get her to unsee that because that is the stated goal she has is I don't feel good about all this debt we have. I want stability. I want security. I want safety. And you're over here playing with your toy, right?

That's how she sees it. I'm not I want to give you full credit. This is a legitimate hobby. And also, it's been 17

years. So to use this manufactured urgency that babe, I got to finish the car this year. I don't think a grown woman's going to take kindly to that when she's looking at a pile of $120,000 of debt. >> And if you were going to do anything, then at the very least, let me just say this.

At the very least, >> take your income as it stands and do the debt snowball. And if you must finish this, go out and get a job.

hobby that you have and just see how see what that if that gets you guys any closer to kind of a meeting of the minds on this. >> I did that for a while. I did have a second job >> and what did she say about that? Did that bother her?

>> Yeah. Well, then it it just kind of got to a point where I was just never home and then she was mad that I was never home. So >> Oh, okay. Do you guys have kids? Mhm.

>> We do. We have a four-year-old and I have two adult children. >> Okay. >> And I am I'm like I said, I don't want

to keep repeating myself. I really am on board with, you know, having our future prepared for, but I'm just kind of tired of waiting and I don't know how to get that through to her without having an argument. >> Have you guys been debtree since you've been married?

>> Uh, almost completely. She inherited some money and we used it and just paid

off everything and um I went right back

to >> Well, I've always taken the stance. That's her money. It's not my money that So, I've I offered to take out a personal loan at 10% interest to pay off

everything.

um the well not not the cars, but all the the 20,000 in credit card debt and then finish the car and then I'll just

and that would be in my name so that she wouldn't be responsible for it and I would just have that one payment. It would take five years if I paid it without double pays. >> I think you're just I think you're doing so so much to try to >> it's it's causing you guys to do to even think separately at this point. I you know >> I agree with you.

I agree with you.

I'm I I've had something happen. It's an emergency. I need you to come right away. And I go okay just let me finish up this thing. I got about 30 minutes here and then I'm going to come over.

I'm going to be like oh my gosh. They don't care that I'm having an an emergency because they're like, "Let me fix a snack before I go." >> And I feel like that's what you're doing. She's saying, "Hey, this is on fire. This is an emergency to me." And you're going, "Yeah, honey. I know. I know. I know. But you're fixing yourself a snack before you go check it out." >> And so I can see why she's upset. Um,

and I can also see cuz for you this

feels extreme. So I can also see why this feels extreme to you. But you have to ask yourself, what's the bigger? What really is the bigger priority? Is the bigger priority making sure my life and my family is set up for success? Because you don't know what the future holds.

You truly don't. You could lose your job tomorrow. You could jump step off the curb and break your leg and be on work, you know, on disability. You don't know what happens tomorrow.

So, I think that's what she's feeling. >> And we know the car will still be there waiting to be worked on. And I know it's frustrating, but I would let that fuel the dream. And if you're not willing to do that, I would go, "All right, well, I'm selling the cars then." If you want to expedite the process, you can do it by getting rid of these payments.

>> What are the car balances?

>> Uh, we owe 50 on the Suburban. It's worth 90. Uh, and we owe I owe 30 on my

truck. I had a 23 Tacoma. It's worth about 60. >> Oh my goodness. So, you guys could sell the cars. Hear me. Hear me out. You'd have 40 profit from the first one, 30 from the next one. You'd have 70 grand sitting in a bank account to go buy some used cars and pay off debt.

>> Yes. Are you seeing what I'm seeing?

>> I think we can get this car restoration done in the next 12 months if we actually did this.

>> But right now, we want the cake. We want to eat it too. We want to do the car restoration. We want to drive really nice cars we can't afford. We also want to pay off 20 grand in credit card debt.

It's just too much at once. And she's overwhelmed. You're overwhelmed. But you have a distraction with this car restoration hobby. And so you're like, "Well, I'm going to go to the garage. I think we need to have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and figure out what sacrifices we are willing to make." Otherwise, you're going to be choosing divorce. That's what you're doing.

You're opting out of this marriage by focusing on this car instead of what she really needs right now.

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Kaylee is up next in Orlando, Florida.

Kaylee, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi guys. Um, okay, so I'll get to the point. Um, I'm Canadian and I moved to Orlando, Florida on a work visa. Um, and when I moved, I bought a house with my mother in Orlando, Florida.

And my dad was really, he's like riskaverse and he was against it kind of like the whole time in the beginning cuz he was just afraid like moving from country to country. He just didn't want any part of it. So, we ended up me and my mother are on the deed of this house in Orlando, Florida.

house taxes or anything that happens with the house we need a new fridge or like the roof or something we still divide that bill by two between me and my mom but I keep saying we should divide it by three since he owns majority of the house so when we sell the house he's going to get most of the profit it. Um, and I love my parents.

Like, we're we're amazing. It's just I I always I in my head I think we should divide the the bills by three, but am I being a brat cuz I don't have a mortgage anymore. So, like, am I just like just not being a good daughter and just should just do divide by >> This is like a common math riddle. This is real complex.

What was the agreement when you guys got into the house? Did you both put equal parts for the down payment, >> 5050 on the mortgage? >> Me and my mom Yeah, me and my mom both put 45,000 US. So, it was like 90,000 down payment.

And then we were both paying. Yeah.

>> 204. 204,000. And And I think like over

like it was 2 years me and my mom were paying and we got it to a point where 204 was left. So he owns 204,000 of the

house and then me and my mom owned the rest. And my parents are married too. So >> according to what and who was there an agreement, a contract?

>> Uh no, just like verbal agreement.

>> But your your mom and your dad, they keep their money separate.

No, no, they keep it. No, they keep it together, but just my mom my dad didn't want anything to do with the the house kind of thing, but then they always bring it back. Well, they're married, so anything that happens to my mom happens to my dad, right? So >> So if you leave, what happens?

Do you get your share back? Do they buy you out? >> Yeah. So yeah, pretty much it's either they buy me out or we sell it all together and then we all go with our our different portions.

>> Well, I think I think you have to decide to something first off. First off, you have to decide, are you viewing when I the reason I asked my question is because if your mom and your dad were keeping their money separate, then you could think of it as thirds. But because it's one group of money for them and then one group of money for you, it really is a 50/50 deal. So whether you want to see it this way or not, when you and your mom bought this house, quote 50/50, your dad your dad was included in that whether he likes to put his name in it or not, that was 50% of his money, right?

>> That 50% was his money as well. So, that's kind of the way I'm seeing it based on the way you said it's not thirds. It's their group of money versus your group of money.

>> You both want to stay in the house.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, my parent, it's actually that's another thing, too. So, they're in Canada most of the time and they come visit me every two months.

So, I take care of the house while they're here. I have the bigger room because I'm here most of the time and like so that's another thing, too. So, it's like I'm technically not paying for mortgage. So, I I guess I since I'm in the house most of the time, maybe I should be paying half the house taxes.

And the house taxes are expensive because I'm a foreigner, too.

a year. Always get slammed every year.

Me and my mom divide by two. And then I keep arguing. I'm like, it should be divided by three. >> No, I think you should be paying half.

I think it's half and half. And then >> whenever I think this is messy to begin with, number one, but you have to consider it 50/50. Your mom and dad are an entity and you are an entity. That's really what it is.

And the fact that you are living there and it's rent free and blah blah blah. Yeah, I think you should be on the hook for half. I mean, am I crazy here, George? But I I think >> your parents are one entity in this in this matter.

Are you paying half of the homeowner's insurance? >> Yeah. Half the And then like if the fridge breaks down or something, it's divide by two. >> Yeah. But why are you saying it with a

tone that's like like you're mad about it? I feel like this for you has been kind of a sweet deal. Like why do you have a >> Because I agree. I THIS IS WHY I'M CALLING because I'm like am I crazy or am I not crazy?

Also cuz I just think in my head when we sell the house though they're getting the majority of the profit and I just feel like >> I think you guys need things in writing cuz so far your little verbal agreement handshakes have not worked out cuz there's zero clarity cuz at every turn there's a new thing we didn't think about. Right. >> Yeah.

>> No. No. Like when we sell, I get my whatever like my down payment that I put and then Yeah. Like whatever percentage I'm in right now, I'm going to get the percentage of the profit. So, and what is that percentage? Because you've got home appreciation, you've got the mortgage payments you've made, you've got the insurance and property taxes money you've paid in.

>> So, how are you calculating? But it's not it it wouldn't be 50/50 though the profit. It's like they they would get like I guess 80% of the profit and I get 20% kind of thing.

>> Tell me tell me the real number of when you put 50% down on the down payment.

How much was that?

>> No. So I put 45,000 US. >> Okay. And what did your mom and dad put down? >> Yeah. So then now they So over two years I think I have roughly around 60,000 and they have the remaining. So I'm going to have 60,000 in this house equity.

Okay. What if the house appreciates and doubles in the next seven years? What happens then? You still get the same percentage. >> So I think 60 whatever 60% uh sorry

60,000 of 340,000 that's how much the house is. Okay. >> Whatever that percentage is, that's how much percentage I would get for the profit. >> Okay.

About 18% is what you'd walk away with. If the house is worth half a million, then after all fees are paid, you should get 18%. I would have that in writing and have all of you sign it in a come to Jesus meeting and say this has been messy. I love you guys.

I don't want this to be living in my head rentree. I feel like it's been a cluster.

That would have helped. >> We're agreed. That's what we're agreed with. We're good to go. It's just the I find the house like living here with the bills and stuff. I'm I was I guess a g not a game but I was just questioning it cuz I was like well would be because if it's a buy three then I have to pay I get to pay lower of the bill you know.

>> Why don't you move? >> Oh >> why don't you move? >> Well because I just moved I just moved here. >> I know but here here me out. You're so

conflicted by this that you called in the show. You're bothered by the percentage that you have to pay. You're bothered by what you have to pay every month. you're bothered by the agreement as it stands because what George just said, "Hey, get it in writing." That is 18%. You're like, "That's already agreed on." So, you're just not happy with the deal as it is. So, get out of it before it gets messier and messier and just say, "You know what? We did this. I'm not sleeping well at night with this.

It's causing something inside of me. I'm just going to move and get an apartment on my own and just be on my own. Fair enough. I mean, why not

simplify your life?" >> Yeah. Well, no, because I I do think I have a sweet deal and it works out perfectly because they want someone to watch the house. >> You don't think you have a sweet deal.

You don't you called in saying that there's a problem with the deal because you're having to pay part of the taxes and it should be three ways and d what happens when you called saying that.

>> Yeah. But I guess the question my question was like I just wanted your advice like am I is crazy for thinking that or my advice for me to pay >> I my advice is get out of this deal and go rent an apartment.

>> How old are you?

dirty. >> Yeah. Get out from under your parents.

You got You don't have to do this with them. Go get an apartment.

>> Do I think it's crazy you feel this way?

No. Do I think it's crazy you got into this situation in the first place? Absolutely. >> Yeah.

>> Well, no. Like, well, I need more conduct, too. Like, I'm on a a work visa, right? So, anything could happen.

I have to go back to Canada, too. And I don't Oh, I think renting for me me I'd rather buy something than to like cuz right now I'm not paying a mortgage >> really because buying is far more permanent then that adds a whole another layer of risk if you can't work there anymore but the house is still tied to you and now you got to forceell it. I mean or still make the payments and you don't have the job. That's scary, isn't it?

>> No. No. Cuz we'll keep it as like a vacation home because we come off into Florida. So it was okay.

>> Who's going to pay for the vacation home now? You're going to go, "Well, they're there more than I am. They go four time." It's like a time share now.

>> And you're living there mostly solo, you said, right?

>> Yeah. >> So, couldn't they make the argument, well, you're there 284 days out of the year. We're only there 100 days. I think we should split it that way. >> Mhm. >> Could they come back at you without Exactly. >> They might get you to pay more versus less. This could very much backfire.

They're they're holding most of the cards right now as a majority stakeholder in this venture you signed up for. So that's why Jade's saying, "Hey, I would cut clean and go, you have some great equity now. You could get out with 60 grand, use that as a down payment on your own place. You probably don't need all the space." Right.

>> Right. >> I don't think it's a bad plan to reset and go, "All right, I'm going to let them buy me out. Do they have the money to buy you out without selling?" >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I might offer that up as one angle to take. And if they're into it, I I would cut ties and go, "You know what? I shouldn't have bought family property across the world. That was a risky, weird move.

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Not available in all states. >> All right, today's question of the day comes from Justin in Michigan. He says, "I need help with my budget. I use the free version of every dollar, but can't seem to make it through the month without borrowing from my emergency fund.

And then I have to replace the funds when I get paid. My budget reads like I have extra money each month. So, I pay that to my snowball. But should I skip a snowball payment for one month to get a buffer in my account to not have to do the borrow payback thing each month between paychecks?

Okay.

couple things are happening here. I think George, number one, I think that you don't have a baby step one in place, which is $1,000. And I think that might be the buffer that you need. Uh, possibly.

It depends on what this if this money is earning from his $1,000 emergency fund. It sounds like that's what he's doing. >> Yeah. >> Is he short 300 bucks, so he dips into the $1,000 starter to get by, then replaces it, and he just stays in this cycle.

>> Yeah. Which means then his budget's not accurate. >> Yeah. I would have a buffer in your checking account of, you know, 300 bucks, 500 bucks depending on what your expenses are.

I think that's wise because there's always going to be something unexpected. It was a little more than you thought. You know, your groceries and things like that. It's variable and so life might happen.

But I do think there are some other money leaks happening that you aren't currently represented in your budget.

>> Yeah. If the math's not math, then your line items are off. you maybe underestimated. You said, "Hey, I'm going to spend 500 on groceries." And you're consistently spending six. Well, we need to switch some things around so that you're actually staying under under the categories instead of going over.

So, I would figure out which ones are there. Maybe there's a line item you need to add that isn't currently there that represents that money that's kind of been leaking out. And that will help you get there. But, I'm proud of you for even trying this and trying to be aware of where your money's going. Most people just accidentally go six grand into debt over the year. and this guy's trying to get out. So, good on you, Justin.

>> Also, make sure, Justin, that you're tracking your transactions as they're taking place so that you can get ahead of this a little bit more because if you're tracking them, you can kind of start to see what's happening and maybe make some adjustments as you're going

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It's incredible. So, start Every Dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right. Madison is in

Sacramento, California up next. What's going on, Madison?

Hello. Um, I'm honored to be able to get your advice. But yes, I am 24 years old.

My husband and I got married a year and a half ago and we are on baby step number four. So, we have worked to pay off my student loans and a car as well.

>> Awesome. >> Um, and we have some about 20,000 saved

and 25,000 invested. But I do have a

dream to go back to school, but for me

it feels kind of like a setback in the, you know, debt savings plan. So, I wanted to get your advice cuz we also want to buy a house. We're renting right now. So, I wanted to get your advice on what you think the next steps would be and what you guys feel is a good idea when it comes to going back into debt for school. Um, if I do have a stable career that I could grow in right now.

>> Well, I would never go back into debt for school. I'm all for you considering furthering your education if you were paying cash for it, but you've come so so far. Why would you consider debt again? What does it cost?

>> So, it would cost around 50,000. And I

agree with you. I I don't like the idea of going into debt for school, but for what I want to do, I would need a license. And so, I would need to get my degree in that field, >> right? But can we cash flow it?

>> Can we cash flow it?

Is this a two-year deal? How many years of school is is this?

>> This would be more around three years.

>> Three years. Okay. So, let's let's reverse engineer it and figure out, okay, what is it going to cost per semester? What will it take for us to

make that happen? Cuz remember there before you were taking all of your margin and throwing it at debt. What stops you from taking all of your margin and throwing it at tuition?

>> Yeah, that's a good question. So, I'm trying to figure that out. I kind of wanted >> um together combined around 165,000 a

year. >> That's an amazing income. Okay. And what do you what do you personally make?

>> I make 65,000.

>> Okay. And you want to spend 50 grand on this program to get licensed to do what?

>> Uh to be a counselor.

>> Okay. Are you in the field right now, but you're not a counselor because you need the masters?

Correct. >> Okay. Have you looked at every single option at your disposal for what the most affordable route to go is?

>> I have. Yes, I've done a lot of research. Um, but I also want to go to a school that has a certain accreditation

so that I can be certified in multiple states. Um, but I've also looked at

working for a school where I could get it paid for, but I haven't gotten a job in that situation. So, I'm still

browsing. I just feel like there's cheaper alternatives that can get you to the stream faster and without debt.

That's what I'm all about. Cuz the truth is never ask the counselor, hey, what school did you go to? What was the accreditation level? >> You know, so I understand that you want certain licensing and all that, but I I just I don't want you to overindex on the importance of the school that you go to. >> I want you to overindex on living a debt-free life so that you don't regret this later on.

>> Because how much will you make as a counselor at that point? Will you go from 65 to 75? What's the what's the

upside here initially?

>> So, that depends. Um, if I wanted to do a private practice, which would take a little bit more time, um, I could be making anywhere from 100 to 200, but I also in my career right now could probably grow into that as well, but I also want to start a family, so I don't know if it's worth it to go to school for that. Um, >> yeah. What happens if you go 50 grand into debt, get pregnant, have the baby, buy a house, and now you're like, I want to stay home.

>> You see what our fear is? Like I'm looking at your whole life and not just this one piece. And so I would sit down and go, we can't do all this at once. We can't start the family, get the house, go to school.

We got to figure out the priorities here. And if that's going to school, then we're going to put all the all the, you know, ammo towards that and cash flow it and get the job and increase the income. But if it's not going to increase the income initially, I don't know that it's worth it right now. I might wait to see.

Let's get the home. That's really the goal. Let's start a family. That's the goal.

>> Yeah, that's good advice.

>> But I think you've got the right heart for it. I think you'd be a wonderful counselor just based on talking to you.

So >> Oh, thank you. >> Best of luck, Madison. >> Appreciate it. >> Yeah, >> this is so real, Jade. Sorry Madison,

but I just this is a real thing. Like there's there's nothing childish or immature about this. This is the stage of life where you could do a lot of things. You want to do a lot of things and you can't do it all at once.

>> Yeah. A few Yeah. A few people could do it all at once financially or even time like bandwidth wise. It's a lot to buy a house and move in and have a baby and go back to school.

Yeah. That's a lot. Got to pick. >> I would focus it.

So if you've got the margin right now, you have a great income. 165 grand debtree. That goes a long way. >> They could cash flow it, by the way.

I mean, when you think about $8,000 per semester on their income, they could make that happen. >> I mean, they could probably right now throw five grand into a savings account after all expenses are paid and have 60 grand in within 12 months. >> Yeah, >> that's the math of it. So, we're talking about, you know, even 8 months from now, you could start the program and cash flow the rest of it.

>> And so, I would crunch the numbers in the budget and go, "Okay, this is what life would look like if we pursued this right now. Now, we could put this toward a down payment instead. here's what that would look like to get into a home sooner. >> But I think doing it all at once is where people get trapped.

>> Yeah. >> Because then you're you're stuck. You're stuck with the student loan payment. You're stuck with the mortgage payment.

And now staying home, it's it's an emotional choice, but the financial piece just doesn't work.

they're going to feel. Like you think, "Oh, I think I'm going to want to work." And then you end up not wanting to work. Or you think, "Oh, I want to be a stay-at-home mom." Then you're a stay at home mom. were like, I got to get back to work.

>> I need to be around grown adults and be able to use the bathroom. That would be nice. Yeah. No, my wife, she dealt with that.

She was here at Ramsey for 9 years.

She went, I got to I got to be home. But we wanted to at least try and financial peace gave us >> those options to go, hey, we're debtree.

You can do what you want. We don't have a mortgage payment. You want to stay home. Let's do it. So, she's she's thriving in the chaos right now. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell joined by Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Stephanie is in South Dakota up next.

What's going on Stephanie?

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I've been married for about nine years and I've always had a job that I was able to adjust to my kids schedule and my husband's schedule. Um, recently I decided to go back to school to advance my career. And my husband got injured, so he hasn't been working for 6 months.

And I got a second job that more aligns with school and my new career. So, my husband's about to go back to work and he informed me that he's expecting me to go back to my original field and work

around him essentially. How do I have that conversation with him that I hope that his new job can kind of correspond

with what I want to do in the future?

>> Wow, that's interesting. Was is is his

request income based? Were you making more at the other job?

No, he actually wants to quit his job and find a brand new field. He's for what he says he's inspired by me.

>> Okay, so you're both on your Eat, Pray, Love journey here, trying to find your dream job, but we got to pay the bills as well. So, where are we at financially?

>> Financially, we are pretty much just keeping our head above water. I'm on baby step one. >> Sounds like not a great time to eat, pray, love. Would you agree with me?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, how much debt do you guys have? I would say probably well I just started school so I'm in my first semester that one with everything I say about 25,000.

>> All right. Is that total debt between the two of you? >> Yes, we we're renters. We only have car payments and credit cards. >> Okay. And how much are you making currently? >> Um I make about 45.

>> Is that with both jobs?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And how much does the main job make? Uh, close to 70.

>> What happened to the 45? I'm confused now. >> I'm sorry. I make 45. He makes close to 70. >> Oh, he makes from what he tells me.

>> I thought he wasn't at back at work yet.

>> Um, he just started getting workers compensation. So, it's kind of evening out. That's how I got to baby step one.

But he what he wants to do is he wants to he's on a manager level. He wants to step down from being a manager, >> which would I don't know what exactly he wants to do, but it won't be nowhere near what he's making now. >> And that's his dream.

>> I I I I guess so. >> Or is the dream a different field because the manager life stresses him out. So right now he's wanting to downshift, but long term he wants something different. >> Yes. That I need to support him and have

an open schedule so he can find himself.

>> But how can you? Because when George said, "What does he want to do?" You said, "I don't even I don't know what he wants to do." How can you support something if you don't know exactly what it is? So, that's my thing.

>> Yes. The closest thing I got was that he wants to go back to school and be a barber. >> Okay. Well, that's pretty clear. He wants to go back to school, be a barber.

He wants to be own his own shop >> or Okay. And has he put in any numbers

or timeline or anything around that?

>> Uh, not really. Um, it kind of scares me though cuz with my tooling, I know like the first five years is like you don't really see a profit. Yeah.

>> And >> well, you're probably renting a chair at first. You know, he's not just going to start a shop out of nowhere and be making bank. It's going to take time to build that up. >> And what's your dream? So, right now, you're in this career making 45. Is that the dream career that you're doing now?

>> I'm staying in the healthc care field, but I'm making a little bit of switch with the degree I'm going for, medical administration. I should be able to have more opportunities.

>> What does that mean?

>> Um, like right now I'm a CNA. So to move up, I will have to get some KONet license. With the new with the degree, I can work as a scheduler. My dream is to be a nursing home administrator.

>> Okay. And how >> anywhere be >> Go ahead. >> Uh anywhere between that, I'll be making way more than I'm making as a CNA.

>> How much is way more?

>> Um nursing home administrator start at 90 I think about 90K.

>> And what's the timeline on yours?

um about to get my degree three more

years and then six months training and then I can go into the field.

>> Okay. So your dream is a three year and six month journey and how much does it cost?

>> Alto together I'm

after student loans I should have probably an extra 30 in in um debt.

>> So you're saying you would have to go into debt to do this?

>> Yes. on top of your 25. You're saying you would add to the 25 in debt, you'd add another 30 to finish the program?

>> Yes. >> Does his require in his mind, does his dream require debt?

>> He sees as no, but uh barber school does cost uh I believe for my school 7,000 uh

7,000 and up depending where he goes.

>> Okay. So, his schools cost 7,000 and up.

What does your school cost? Did you say 30,000? >> Yes. >> Okay.

So, here's what I'm thinking about. I'm I'll be honest. I don't like the way he framed it. It kind And I don't know if he's framed it like that or you framed it like that, but it kind of felt like his thing is more important than your thing.

And yeah, that would rub me the wrong way too if it really came out like that. Um, but when I'm just sitting here looking at the numbers and the timeline and the risk on this, I'm going to tell you what I see and George hit me.

business and going into hair industry. I feel like it's it takes a lot of time to get that margin to start making money.

However, his so I'm gonna say that his is more risky, but I'm gonna say that his is cheaper and has a shorter timeline. >> And then for yours, I'm gonna say it's more straight ahead. Like you get the certification, you get the job, you get the salary, right? It's pretty straight ahead. So on the actual landing of the

job, there's less risk, but the problem is yours is very expensive and you can't go into debt for this and it's a longer timeline. So, you guys have to decide,

is it even possible in the state that you're in to be able to cash flow what you're trying to do >> because if you can, I might go your route.

>> Well, as of right now, um, they put my student loans. I don't have to pay until after I graduate. However, I'm still making payments on it. So, and I'm also

doing three4s of a full-time. So, I'm

I'm not I'm not hitting that. They have

uh it's a junior college, so I'm not hitting that top tuition. I'm trying to save money while I'm doing it. >> But you still can't go into debt at your old job, the job that he wants you to go back to. What were you making on that job? >> Uh by that one by itself 30k.

>> I thought it was I thought that was the better job. >> Uh that one was better because >> just for time. >> The Yes, the flexibility.

>> Ah, >> okay. Well, here's the thing. a starting barber probably going to make 15 to 20 bucks an hour. He's probably gonna make 35k a year instead of 70. And so this

dream needs to make sense. And for that to make sense, you guys need to be in a much better place financially. So leaving this whole situation with 55,000 in debt and cutting your income in half while you still have years of schooling to go before your income goes up is a recipe for disaster. Do you agree?

>> Yes. So, we need to just delay the dream right now, clean up our financial mess, and try to avoid going into further debt. So, if you can cash flow your whole schooling and pay off your debt, then we can focus on his dream. And we can cash flow seven grand easily, 10 grand, and and get done with barber school. And then he can take a pay cut for a temporary time and you'll be okay cuz you're making 90 grand with no debt.

>> He has the freedom, right?

>> Okay. But please, the number one takeaway, you cannot go into debt for this degree. If you go into debt for this degree, it is going to put such a strain on all of this. And not you going

like especially you going your going first and adding that debt is going to make it even harder for him to get to his dream. So please do >> you'll be dragging each other down if you do it this way. And that's our fear.

We want to see you guys work jobs you enjoy. So much so we're going to gift to you Ken Coleman's Get Clear Assessment.

I think both of you should take it and make sure that whatever field you end up in, there's no regrets. So, hang on the line, Stephanie. We're going to make sure you get those resources from our friend Ken Coleman.

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Patricia is in Atlanta up next.

Patricia, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> Well, I am an 82year-old widow and my

husband was a mattress saver.

>> Oh, wow. >> He saved money. Yeah. Money under the mattress. >> Okay. >> Wow. >> And I've got I've got this hunk of money and I I don't think there's anything I can do with it. I'm afraid to try to do something with it. >> How much?

>> Uh it's over 100,000.

>> Wow. How long was he saving that for?

>> 25 years.

>> Okay. >> Is that your only money or is there other money? Is there any money in the bank?

I have about 400 in CDs and I I bought

my house cash and it's about 425 now on

a paid off car. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> But uh I got 1,400 in social security

which is income, you know.

>> And is that all you're living on?

>> I'm sorry.

>> The 1400. Do you live solely on the 1400

social security? I I I do my best.

>> Wow, >> that feels tight.

>> That's >> What are your expenses every month?

>> Oh, um just the regular utilities and

homeowners insurance, car insurance, that type of thing, you know, just the regular dayto-day expenses that a person has. I don't eat much. What?

>> Now, can I just clarify? When you said 400 in CDs, $400,

not 400,000. >> 400,000. >> 400,000. >> Okay. 400,000. >> Is that essentially your your nest egg just in case break in case of emergency?

What are you using that for?

>> I'm I just afraid to spend it that I'll

run out of money before I not here any

longer. >> So, you want to deposit the hundred in cash. What's What's the question?

The question is I've asked other people

and they say if you try to just take this big chunk of money and put it in

the bank or buy something with it, the Internal Revenue is going to come and say where in the world did you get this $100,000 in cash?

>> I mean, I don't think they're going to take you into a me, you know, a room and interrogate you. The bank legally just has to file a report. Anything over 10 grand, they just have to file a report saying that you deposited the money.

They might ask you, you know, the source of the funds. You can say, "My husband, you know, saved cash in a safe for years." >> Mhm. I'll be honest, >> it's not illegal. >> I care more about the 400k in CDs than I do about the 100K in cash. I'd love to see you invest that 400K. That way, if you want to draw a little off of it, you can, and you don't have to worry about it depleting.

Well, the only thing with that is I don't know anything about stocks or anything or uh money market accounts or what, you know, all those other >> What if you had someone What if you had someone who you could interview and then help you with that?

>> Well, I probably would listen to them and see what they had to say for sure.

>> Yeah, I think it having a Smart Ver pro would be would be good for you. And these are people that we vet and we make sure that you know they're good and that they can teach you and help you to feel good and understand, hey, this is what it is and you feel good about the investment. It's not them just taking the wheel and doing everything for you, but it's you making sure you have skin in the game, understanding it, approving what's taking place.

you can live off more and they can run the numbers for you and show you, hey, this is a conservative take on what you could withdraw from this without it depleting in the next 5 or 10 years. And so they can show you all the math. They're not going to put you in some risky single stock or crypto or something that you're not comfortable with. You stay in the driver's seat, but they're just educating you on what your options are and then you make the choice.

So that's what I would do.

>> What you could buy with 100k back in the day versus today it's different. And so you need that money at least growing at the speed of inflation ideally more to beat it. And so that's what we're advocating for.

>> Okay. That sounds interesting.

>> Head down to the bank with your with your winnings. >> Mhm. I think they'll have a good laugh if you say, "Well, my husband was a mattress saver." They'll go, "Yep, we've seen one of these today." You know, >> can you imagine? >> That's right.

>> Stuffing a suitcase with a h 100,000 and just heading down to the bank and you just stuff your duffel bag and just head on down. >> I got to know, you know, was this mattress lopsided with all this cash underneath it? >> I'm hoping it was in a safe or something. That's ideal.

But >> even still, the fact that you got to get into your car and drive with 100,000 on your person. I would I might have an armored vehicle for that.

>> Good luck, Patricia. Be safe out there.

Britney is in Idaho up next. What's going on, Britney?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. I'm trying to figure out what to do with my car. I owe about $12,600

on it. It's valued at $5 to $6,000

according to Kelly Blue Book. It needs some repairs currently, about $2,500.

And at this point, should I voluntarily surrender the car back to a lender or keep pushing through and pay it off and get it fixed? >> What do you make?

>> I make about 4,200 a year.

>> 42,000? You mean?

>> 42,000? Yeah. >> Okay. You scared me. I was like, uh, goodness gracious, Britney. What's going on in your life? You're making $2 an hour out there. Okay. >> Yes. >> All right. So, this car, you're underwater on it severely. You don't have the money to do the repairs. And I

I've never suggested a voluntary repo because here's the problem. They're going to sell it at auction and still come after you for the difference. So, you're better off selling the car for what you can get for it and getting a personal loan from your credit union because you're it's not going to really release you from your situation here.

Okay. >> So, how much money do you have right now?

>> Saved. I have about 3500. I'm on baby

step number two and the car is my last debt. >> Okay. So, you have the money to do the repair, but it it feels like is this worth it? Is that your issue here?

>> Yes.

>> Well, there's two options. One is you do

the repair, you eat the cost, and hopefully the car runs for the foreseeable future and you pay it off.

That would be nice, right? That would solve the problem.

>> Mhm. >> How quickly could you pay off the remainder 12 grand? If you did the repair and then started knocking out the 12 grand, >> I am permanently disabled, so I'm limited with my funds. Um, paying my

monthly car payment is the only amount I can pay. So you can only make the payment and nothing more. You can't put extra on it.

So which means this is going to keep dragging out. You're going to continually be more and more underwater as the loan probably balloons.

>> Correct. >> Tell us about the car. Is it prone to

issues? Has it just been having issue after issue or is just this just popped up and you're like, "Dang it." >> No, this is the first issue I had since I owned it. It's a timing belt that's going out. I I've been told if I keep driving it, it if it breaks, it'll affect the engine. >> But I've been advised not to drive it, even though I still drive it a little

bit every now and then.

>> Um I don't drive a lot, so it's been working for me, >> but I'm worried that if I keep risking it, I could push my luck.

>> Yeah. >> Have you gotten other uh repair quotes from other mechanics?

>> I have. The 2500 is the cheapest I found. I've went to three different places. >> Now, if you if you did the 2500 in repairs, could you sell it for more?

>> Um, with the repair with a fixed, it's

it's going to be about 5 to 6,000.

>> Okay. M >> and so let's pretend let's so if you if

you took 2500 out of your saved money

paid this off at what rate or I'm sorry

took that money and repaired the car the car is driving at what rate would it take you with the income you have nothing extra to pay off the I mean what's remaining on the loan as far as time >> um that's a good question I'm not quite

sure I know I owe 12,600 less

and I pay about $400 a month.

>> Have you tried going to your local credit union and seeing if they would give you a loan for the difference to at least get out from under this?

>> I haven't I don't have the best of credit. I had a lot of medical issues

when I became permanently disabled and it messed up my credit.

>> That's one angle you can try and then use your savings to get you a beater car to get by for now. But there's still bigger problems to solve here. And that's going to take getting the income up and getting rid of this debt. It's going to be a journey.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." Or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens >> and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

All right, George. I'm hearing something very crazy about your social media.

>> Tell me more. >> I happened to pop on there and I saw you had a view a video with 14 million

views. >> Yeah, it got out of control. We >> That's wild. >> So, we did a man on the street.

I love getting in the streets, getting in people's business, asking them questions about finances. and we happened to be in Orlando recently and I said, "Let's go to Disney." >> So, we went to Disney Springs and we asked people how much debt they had and our team just clipped that on social media and it blew up with a lot of feelings. >> I'm sure. >> And so, I wanted to get your feelings about it and react to it in real time if you're willing >> cuz there's some trigger words in here that I think you'll have some thoughts on.

>> I'll be honest. Is it weird to you that I saw like the little icon on social and I saw the views but I didn't actually watch the video? >> It's hurtful but understandable. You're a busy woman.

You don't have time to watch all my content. >> Okay, I'll watch it. I'll watch it.

See what they have to say. Are you guys in any kind of debt right now? >> Mine's pretty minimal, I think. Uh, credit card and a vehicle. Um, probably about 60. >> And that's minimal to you? >> No, it's a lot. >> What's left on the car loan? >> 53. >> What are you driving? >> A 24 Toyota Tundra.

>> How about you? How much debt do you have? >> Probably 75,000. Credit cards and then a

car loan as well.

>> Student loans. Yeah, like 60.

>> 60. What are you driving? You rolled over negative equity, didn't you?

>> Yes, I did. Yes. Honda Pilot 25.

>> What's your car payment? >> 1,200.

>> How much your car payment? >> 9.82.

>> I mean, you're just giving away the income every month at this point, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How much student loans we have left? >> I probably have 100,000 in student loans. >> Okay. Add it all up in your head. I think we're doing this for the first time. How much debt do you have total?

Total total? I'm going to say at least 180 grand. >> Can you tell me uh did you guys pay cash for the trip >> for half of it? >> The other half is on what? >> A Disney card. >> The Disney credit card. What do you get for putting it on the Disney card versus any old other card? >> It has uh 6 months special financing. So there's no interest for like 6 months.

>> Okay. So is your plan to pay it off in 6 months? >> The plan. >> That is the plan if we can do that for sure. Yeah. >> That doesn't instill confidence. You're like if we cuz otherwise it's going to like crank up to what 29% APR or something crazy, >> right? Yeah, absolutely. >> Do you guys have any debt right now?

>> Yes. >> How much? >> My student loans um they're about uh

100,000. >> What was your degree? >> Business administration. >> How much total do you have in debt? >> Probably around 128,000 I'd say total.

>> Do you ever feel like I'll just die with the debt? Like what's is there a game plan to be like I'm going to pay this off in 3 years or is just kind of like I'll make my payments? It's going to be probably in about 15 years. I'm assuming I'll get it paid off. I don't know.

>> How old are you now? >> I'm 22, >> man. Oh, man. Oh, man.

>> So much to unpack. And that was just a minute 49. The video is 15 minutes. If you want to watch the whole thing on my YouTube channel, George Camel, we'll put a link in the show notes.

>> More juicy stuff where that came from, including a guy who was uh, let's say, under the influence when he took out a car loan. >> W Oh, wow. I You would Wow.

>> Yeah. The interest wasn't the only thing that was sky-high that day. Listen, I'd rather be able to blame it on that than me being in my right mind going into $60,000 of debt and a $1,200 payment on a Honda Pilot, George, of all things.

>> So, there's a few things I want to point out that were said. So, number one, uh,

the justification language. Well, it's minimal. Well, it's 0%. Well, we were forced. We had to, right? There's all the justification language that we hear on the show. I hear it in the streets.

And I don't know if it's people, you know, there's some shame and guilt around it, understandably. So, you make yourself feel better by saying, "Well, it's only 20 grand." >> Right. Right. >> You know, those words bother me cuz I want them to feel the weight of it. And I think you're deflecting when you say, "Well, it's minimal. It's only It's 0%." >> You make it seem like your back was against the wall and you had no other choice. And I'm like, here's my thing.

If you were going to go into debt, did it have to be 60,000? There's plenty of great $30,000 cars out there. I'm just saying >> that is true. And then the other part the other part that shocked me was I'm like I'm the first guy making you do the math on what you actually owe. So I ruined a lot of uh Disney dream. Yeah.

The comment section. I didn't realize this but they're like these people are out here trying to have a good time and George is ruining their day.

>> The guy in the poncho when you told him that his interest was going to crank up to 26%. Did you see his eyes? Like the look in his eyes? >> There was a sadness. I don't know if it's because just a grown man in a poncho at Disney is just a sad sight anyways. Yeah. >> But the fact that he was like, "Yeah, I mean I I hope we can pay it off." Like he did a thousandy stare.

>> Yeah. >> Into another life he's dreaming. >> It brought him into, you know,

>> Hello Darkness, my old friend.

>> So, there was a lot going on there. And it was also frightening to see how much crippling debt people are in. And they're just adding to the pile with a little Disney trip. And I asked people how much their Disney trip cost. Jade. I did not know. All right. Call me ignorant. I didn't know. It was It's $1,000 a day per person to breathe.

>> Yes. >> In Disney. >> Yes. >> And this is not a knock against Disney.

It's a wonderful experience. >> It's magical. I love Disney.

>> But the idea that you're going to go another six grand into debt or put it on the Disney credit card because they've convinced you this is the smart way to pay. >> It boggles my mind cuz they're going to add that to the payment when they get home. On top of their $1,200 car payment, they got a Disney credit card payment to make. How can you even enjoy it in the moment knowing that?

>> I'm like, I can't be the one ruining your enjoyment. Your decisions have already ruined the enjoyment. >> It's like eating a meal knowing you're going to get food poisoning.

>> Oh, that's a great analogy.

>> How can you enjoy it knowing what what

is the future holds for >> going to be held to pay on the other side of this? But I'm going to enjoy this queso right now. >> Oh lord, why do I have to be queso?

>> Sorry, I don't want to throw queso under the bus. Goodness gracious. So, I encourage everybody to uh to watch that video and if nothing else, I know why people watch to make themselves feel better about their financial situation.

>> Yes. >> That's like, you know, entry to your Ramsay. That's why you watch the show.

>> Yeah. You can look at I hope you go, you know what? This makes me want to fix my situation. >> I hope so. >> And then third, you actually do this stuff and you want to send it to people to see this is why the Ramsay plan is so important, >> you know? >> So, >> wow. Well done, George. This is why I go into the streets, you know, in the rain with the umbrella.

>> I really sacrificed for the content that day, but it paid off. So, thank you to everyone who's watched it, shared it.

And just know my heart is not to shame people. My heart is to bring some

awareness, some, you know, some people are problem unaware. They don't know how bad their debt is. They don't know it's a problem. They just think it's normal to have payments. So, the more we can shed a light on debt and say this is not normal. Mhm. >> And if it is normal, we need to run the other direction. >> That is the hope that we h we have for making content like this. >> Good job, George. I think you did just that. >> Okay, let's go to Isaiah in Detroit up

next. What's going on, Isaiah?

>> How's it going? Um, I was just here. Let

me tell you guys a little bit about my situation. So, I'm 18 years old. I just graduated last year and during the school year, I started a mobile car detailing business. I've been in it about eight months and so far I've been doing it part-time like with school and work and I made about $3,000 from the business.

And now that I've graduated high school and entered college, I realized that I want to learn more about business through actually doing it.

different business that doesn't really have to do with car detailing, but >> they are the closest mentor I would have. and I wanted to go down there and move in with them and they said I could stay there for a few months while I get up and running in the area. I currently have about $25,000 saved and my budget

for the move is $8,000 to get a car and the equipment and everything I need, but my family thinks that it's super risky >> and like I've completely lost my mind.

>> So, you're you're doing this with cash.

You have no debt. There's an established business that's gonna pay you when you arrive.

>> And so I would have to I'm so

>> there's no job, right?

>> They're not paying you to work in their business. >> They'll just mentor you, but you can get a job.

>> Yeah. >> And you're willing to get any old job while trying to get your own business off the ground.

>> Yeah. 100%. >> I actually really like this. I think that school will be there. It's not going anywhere. college like what were you going to college for anyway?

>> I was going to college for business management. >> Yeah. I mean that degree is going to be there. I love on the job training. Like I love the idea that somebody would mentor you who's starting a business.

Are they successful this person or is this their first go round too?

>> Yeah, they are. They are pretty successful. They rent out um beach supplies and they've been doing that for a good couple years and have made a lot of money. Huh?

Yeah, I like the idea, >> man. 18 single. I think this is one of the least risky things you could do. And I would advise you to do it cuz worst case you come back home.

The key is don't go into debt for anything. Not for equipment, not for a degree. Cash flow every next move and then follow that path that it takes you as you cash flow this amazing business. I think it's a great business idea.

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or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. Jessica is in San Antonio up next. What's going on, Jessica?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, so my significant other and I are planning to get married and he currently pays child support and alimony from his previous marriage. Um, and I know once we're married, the money and debt becomes ours, but I'm not sure how to handle those payments, like specifically the alimony. Mhm.

>> So my question is had that should that come out of our joint budget? Should that say his individual responsibility?

>> Um yeah, >> what's the uh the parameter? How much and for how long?

>> Uh 300,000 until paid off.

>> Wow.

>> It's a lot of money.

Um, there's part of this where,

you know, I'm always going to be for combining finances and

>> taking on whatever the other person has in the form of debt and everything else.

And in many ways, this kind of is that, right? Because >> you're getting into this uh situation together.

>> I'm thinking through this and yeah, I think I would it would be ours, the child's work. Otherwise,

>> here's how >> I feel like there would be separation there. >> Here's how I'm viewing it, and you can tell me what you think, Jessica. I'm almost viewing it as a deduction before his take-home pay. So, like you pay for healthcare out of your paycheck, your 401k. So, if you just sort of took that out and then had his new take-home pay, which is the lower amount post alimony, that becomes our money.

>> I think that helps me frame it up differently >> mentally. I like that >> to where it's it is coming from his income, but there's still this pool that's our money, but we're just not going to see that money because it's not your money. It's it has an allocation legally of where it needs to go right now. >> And it's not forever. And so this will change and it'll feel like you get a raise, I guess, when that day comes when that 300 grand is paid off.

>> But either way, it's going to affect your world because it's $300,000 that would have been part of you all's budget. That's not part of you all's budget. >> Is it a set monthly amount?

>> No, not set. >> Is it variable? because his income is variable or how does that what's the agreement there? >> Yeah, variable income, quarterly bonuses. Um, yes. So, he just pays it

when he can and um I know we recently moved in together and I do all lot him a

specific amount to help cover the mortgage um even though we're not married um and I know he did raise his

alimony um at the same time. So, I know he's he's trying to get that paid off as

soon as he can. Um, but >> so when will you guys be married?

>> No set date yet because I am trying to logistically figure this out.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, this is kind of what's hold is this what's holding you back then?

>> Uh, yes.

>> I could see that. >> Yeah. >> What will you guys be making when you're once you're married? And then what will your debt load be outside of this alimony? >> Um, so I don't know his exact take-home.

I know what he brings in um after taxes and stuff, but I would

probably say, oh gosh, almost 400, 350

to 400 I believe. >> That's awesome. >> a year. >> And any debt to speak of?

>> Um >> outside of the mortgage and the alimony.

>> Um so his mortgage, full loan, uh car

loan, and then unfortunately I've been through the baby steps, but I um had to buy a car. So, just a small amount for me, but I'm actively going back around.

So, >> so his mortgage is the plan that What's the plan with the mortgage?

>> Will will you guys move into that house?

Will he sell it and you guys move somewhere else? Cuz I'm almost wondering if he can take >> when that day comes if he can sell off

an asset in order to get this done.

>> Yes, I know he mentions that. That is his plan. I currently did move in with him and our plan is to sell the house he's currently in that we live in. Um, finish paying what he owes to her and then us purchase a new home together.

>> Okay. >> Well, that feels like a solution there.

>> Yeah, I was kind of looking at it like if this was just a giant consumer debt, we'd go, "All right, we'll just tackle it with whatever your income is because the sooner that's gone, the sooner you free up that money." Mhm.

>> Mhm. >> So, I think that's a good plan, and I think it will unify you guys as a couple as well to just go, "All right, this isn't how we either of us pictured it, but we have a 300,000 debt we need to pay off on top of our car loan and credit cards." And I hope it gives you some onus to get rid of your own debts faster because the sooner you're on the other side of all of this, the more wealth you're going to build together and the more options you're going to have.

>> Yes. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Thank you.

>> Yeah, absolutely. That that's a tough question. It is. It's a lot intertwined in there.

>> I kind of feel like they did complicate it a little bit by moving by her already moving into there. >> Came towards the mortgage, which is more complication. So, I don't love that part. It's only going to add insult to injury >> because she could have sat back in her own apartment and said, "Hey, like you've got this $300,000 debt.

Why don't you sell off something and and clean it up?" Like, but now since they're both in that house. >> Yeah. Anyway, >> thanks for the question. Mary Kate is in Phoenix up next.

What's going on, Mary Kate? >> Hey, how's it going, guys? Thanks for taking my call. >> Absolutely.

>> So, this is a an interesting one. I just started listening to the show a couple weeks ago. So, I literally just started um like going through my debt, starting to pay off my debt. I paid off my car um which was the first kind of lowest debt that I had.

Got into a car accident last night and totaled my car. >> Oh my goodness. Um, so yeah, that was a Are you okay? Kind of a bit of a surprise.

Oh, totally fine. Yeah, thankfully wasn't the at fault driver, but you know, bummed that I just paid off my car and and uh and I just got totaled. So >> curious to hear what you guys think about this. I kind of know where I'm guessing I know where you're going to lean, but um don't have the money to to pay for a car out, you know, out outright right now.

um to to buy a car and then wait for the payoff for my insurance company, which is probably going to be between 30 to $40,000 and then just chuck that at the debt. Make sure I don't go like don't finance a car for more than that amount.

Um, so >> well, how long until they write you a $35,000 check?

>> Yeah, that's what I don't know. I'm getting >> And will they provide a rental car in the meantime? >> That's my question. >> Um, yeah, I think they will. Um, I can I

can also pay for that out of pocket and then get reimbursed for that. It's probably going to take about a week until I could get a rental car. Um, but I, you know, I kind of need one right now.

>> Why would it take a week to get the rental car?

>> Uh, from what I understand, I've never been in an accident before, so this is all very new to me, but from what I understand, um, the insurance company needs to wait for liability to be confirmed from the police report and things of that nature. Well, could you rent one on your own dollar for that week or whatever and then switch to theirs? That's probably what I would do.

I would not go into debt on a car >> and, you know, have have have the be at

the mercy of the insurance on a car payment that's got interest that's acrewing and everything like that.

>> Sure. Okay. >> So, you've already filed the claim the that night? >> Yep. >> Okay. Has the adjuster inspected? >> They did last night.

>> Uh, they're they're inspecting it today or tomorrow. Um they they they towed it

to like a like the the car body shop and

they should be expecting it today or tomorrow. >> Okay. Because I'm thinking mo most people will get that insurance check in about 7 days. So I don't think it's going to be a super long time.

I would just get whatever rental you can right now. And I would also check with them before you do any of this. Say, "Hey, I need a car right now. What are my what are my best options?" And make sure that you know exactly what the amount is they'll reimburse, how soon, all of that.

Get all the facts. But I would not go jump into, you know, go to the dealership and say, "Hey, I need a brand new car." >> That's what most people do when they total their car. They go, "Woohoo! I won the lottery.

Time to go get a $50,000 car." >> More than the payout. >> And they say, "Well, I had to I had I had to get a new car. Total mine. What are you going to do?" And that's how we have, you know, a middle class America that's broken.

>> So, I hope that's not you. You've done so well that I'm like, why go backwards into debt even for a moment when you can avoid all of it? >> Okay. >> Okay.

So, wait to have that that payout in hand before I I do anything basically. >> Yes. >> And uh you know, get yourself as nice of a rental you can with the reimbursement they'll give you. >> I'm sorry that happened.

>> And thank you. And quick question on the the payout. Um that's not like a a taxable event or anything as long as I use it for the purchase of a new vehicle. Is that right?

>> Yes. Because you weren't like making money here. This was not a money-making scheme where you sold the car for more than it's worth. You know, insurance is valuing that car at what it what it was valued when you wrecked it.

So, nothing to worry about there.

go buy a car for $20,000 pocket for the

remaining >> and and if you have debt, I love that plan for you >> cuz if you had sold that car for 40 and use 20 of it to buy a car, that's your American right. And I would honestly do that if I were you if you've got other financial goals, other debts to pay off, it's only going to, you know, make your life simpler. And a 20,000 car will get you real far these days.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Campbell joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. Open phones at88255225.

Claude is in Orlando, Florida up next.

What's going on, Claude?

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> Okay, just uh long story short, I

I haven't paid um my IRS in several

years. Um basically, I got out of high school 0708. um kind of fell into a good

job uh working for foreclosure companies and started buying up foreclosures and kind of amassed about uh got about 267

doors uh rental but um it's all paid for

but I'm at the point I just bought a house um through private financing

but I would like to secure permanent financing but I haven't done uh my federal taxes in several years >> and they're going to want to see tax returns for you to get that financing?

>> Yes, sir. >> And this is the only reason you've decided I guess you should probably deal with that.

>> Um, it's >> Why haven't you filed?

>> I'm just uh kind of ignorant, I guess.

>> No, you're not. Ignorant people don't own 27 rentals. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> You're very successful.

>> So, what has caused you to just ignore the taxes completely? Because you filed taxes up until what year?

>> I think the last time was 16. and I did it. >> Okay. So, we're coming up on 10 years and nobody's knocked on your door yet.

You haven't gotten anything in the mail?

>> No, sir. I haven't I don't really on

paper, I guess, show making a bunch.

Most of that income's in cash >> and you've spent it. Do you have the money to pay all these back taxes, penalties, fees?

>> I don't have any idea what it would be.

Um, >> well, how much have you made in the last 10 years? I mean, I'm anywhere from

10,000 a month to 15,000 a month, just depending on I got a lot of irons in the fire. >> So, you're talking about making

>> 150 to 200 grand every year for the last decade.

>> Yeah. I mean, this uh slowly escalated

year to year. >> All right. I'm going to call it half a million. Just ballpark numbers.

>> How would you come up with half a million dollars to pay the IRS?

Um, it's a good question. I mean, I

figured up the other day before I got came on here, I I got about conservatively $4 million in real estate. >> Mhm. >> So, it sounds like if I were in your shoes, here's what I would do personally. Number one, I would get with an enrolled agent or CPA yesterday and start tracking down exactly what I need to do to get current.

Get on a payment plan and get this mess cleaned up. And then whatever that bill total is, if it's $500,000, I'm not even going to get on a payment plan. I'm going to liquidate enough properties that I knock this out. >> Mhm.

>> Okay.

>> You should report every dime you make.

Give to Caesars's what is Caesars. So, I know you want to avoid that.

>> I don't know if you're going to take my advice, but I don't want to I don't want the next phone call from Claude to be from a jail cell.

>> Yeah, >> that'd be ugly. >> Yeah. You got to do this with integrity, my guy. >> The last people you want on your back is the IRS. They can destroy your life.

>> I know that's right. >> And so I would not ignore this any longer. It's been almost a decade.

>> Um, >> what are you going to do next?

>> Um, I guess I need to go to a uh CPA.

>> That's right. And you're going to need to get with the IRS and get and figure out exactly what you owe. And they can help with that. But do not avoid. I know you deal with a lot of cash. I would get things on the books. I would have everything every eye dotted, every tea crossed.

>> Okay. >> And that might mean you need to hire someone to do the books. If you don't like doing it, you don't want to do it, I would hire someone who can do it.

>> The good news is you have the assets to clean this up very quickly.

>> Yeah. >> How much debt do you have otherwise?

Um, I mean, I've borrowed 165,000 on

that house, uh, from that private investor, but I mean, I've got I've been offered 275 for it like it is, but I

besides that, I'm I don't owe a dime.

>> All the 26 properties are free and clear. >> Yeah. >> So, could you sell one or two of those to knock out this IRS debt worst case? I

mean, I've been doing letting a few go, but the dam property taxes and other

unforeseen things are beating me up.

>> It just doesn't make sense. Why are you so tight on cash?

>> I mean, just >> if they're all paid for, they should be cash flowing beautifully. Are you just spending every single dime you get?

>> No, not Well, I've um Okay, so let's I

bought all these houses kind of cheap um several years ago. over the last several years and then I was just shoving people in them doing the minimum and so now I'm kind of paying the popper on that. Um so when they're coming open I'm spending a fair amount of money >> on repairs and maintenance and all that because you neglected to do it.

>> That's right.

>> Man, that's part of the business. I you know what? If this is too much for you to handle, I would liquidate a bunch of properties and just keep what you can actually manage and manage well.

>> Well, I mean it's my sole it's my main

income. Yeah, but if you liquidated the properties, you'd have something called money. And right now, it sounds like you're tight on cash flow for some reason because you're just bleeding out with 27 properties to manage. It's more expensive. >> Yeah. I mean, if if I got a few thousand bucks left over at the end of the month, I'm doing good.

>> I mean, I'm not >> I'm just confused for a guy who doesn't pay taxes and makes 15 grand a month, you shouldn't be this broke.

>> Well, I'm I'm at about 10 right now. I mean, if I got everything full, I'm at 15. out of 27 properties, you're only making 10 grand a month. They're all paid for. >> What kind of properties are these? >> I've got um well, it's definitely uh low

low income stuff like I mean I bought some of these things in in 09's about when I started buying. I mean I bought things for $5,000.

>> So you're making like a few hundred bucks off each one.

>> Um a few hundred. I mean I'm the bottom of the rent in my area is like 600 bucks.

600 to >> Okay. I'm just saying you have you have 27 properties and you make 10 grand off of those. That's 370 each on average.

>> Yeah. And I've got like five empty right now.

>> What would it look like if you sold a couple of these lowinccome properties and got some nicer properties where you can garner a higher, you know, a higher

rent and still pay for them fully in cash and then instead of having 26, maybe you have 10, right? Or maybe you have eight. >> They're higher quality. Higher quality tenants. Pay more. >> That's kind of what I've been doing. I just sold one last week for 55,000 that

I bought for 10. >> Uhhuh. >> But I paid 40,000 in property taxes.

>> Oh. What about the capital gains on those?

>> That's what I'm I don't I don't know.

>> Oh my goodness. So on top of your income, you could have a huge capital gains bill from all these investment properties that appreciated since 09 when you bought them for, you know, pennies on the dollar, >> right? But I've never depreciated any of them either.

>> Wow. You need I think you need help. I think you need somebody to help you with the the financial like the books on this

>> and help you to understand what it is that you're doing.

>> Yeah. Well, I also had a secretary that um was embezzling money too in the last >> Goodness gracious. >> Wow. I think I think the word for you in the new year if because I'm already talking about the new year is simplification. You need to simplify your life. >> You got a lot going on.

>> Yeah. >> But right now, you've just been ignoring it and it's just compounded and compounded and so now it feels so overwhelming. So, I would jump on to ramseyolutions.com, get in touch with a tax pro today, and

they're going to have their hands full with you. You might be their full-time client for the next few months as they uncover and turn over every stone that you have left to rot. So, goodness

gracious, Claude, I'm sorry you're dealing with this, but man, neglecting the problem is not going to make it go away, especially when it's the IRS. Wow.

>> Good luck.

Heat. Heat.

It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the Ramsay Show. And we want to hear stories from you about how you have given generously this season. Maybe you've tipped a waiter, a waitress a hundred bucks, or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford one.

Maybe you've blessed someone in need by giving them a car, doing something outrageous. Maybe you've been on the receiving end and you had your life changed or affected by someone who gave generously to you. We want to hear those stories. Dave Ramsey and I will be doing that giving show and it's going to be a lot of fun.

and put giving in the subject line. We

do this every year at Christmas time. It's one of our most popular shows. Very heartwarming. Coming up December 18th.

So start sending in your stories of giving today and let's celebrate living like no one else so you can give like no one else. Sydney is in Columbus, Ohio up next. What's happening Sydney?

>> Hi guys. Um my husband and I are trying

to figure out how to uh financially approach our home. Uh we

were given lead orders by our state

health department. Uh we're mandated to hire a lead abatement specialist to uh

do some actually relatively minor work around our home. Um and it the bill is

going to be about $30,000.

>> O wow.

>> Yeah. Um we have five young kids, seven

and under. Um we definitely don't have

$30,000 laying around. Mhm.

>> Um and the state's giving us a year to

come up with the money, get it done, or

whenever they deem necessary. Um they

could force us to leave our home that we own. >> Mh. >> Um so we we could get a home equity

loan.

Um that's a kind of hefty payment, but

I'm not sure we really have any other options. >> What do you guys earn?

Uh my husband pre-tax was 58,000 last

year. >> And are you working outside the home?

>> No, I stay at home with the kids.

>> How many kids and how old are they?

>> Uh we have five kids. 7, five, three,

two, and six months old.

>> Oh my goodness. Now, are you needing to do a full abatement? Have you checked on that?

Um, I mean, we have the orders that the state gave us. There's, you know, a whole list of things >> that, you know, they give you what you need to fix and the control options to fix it, that sort of thing. >> Okay. And have you got multiple quotes?

>> Yes, they're all between 29 and 33,000.

>> So, I kind of run this backwards. I mean, if you said 30, that's right in the middle of the road. So, I'm thinking, okay, I have a year to do I have 12 months to do this. That's about $2,500 a month. What can we do to bring

that money in so that we can have this process started in time?

So, as it as it sits, after you guys' bill after your bills are paid, how much margin do you have to go towards your debt or whatever whatever your financial goals are right now?

>> Uh maybe a couple hundred a month.

>> Like a couple hundred like two or a couple hundred like five.

>> Uh maybe two. >> Okay. It's It's not a whole lot.

>> What does your husband do for work?

>> Uh he's a mechanic for a neighboring county for the highway engineering department. >> And if you what's your house worth if you were to sell it?

>> We have up up to well close to $200,000

in equity. And that's getting someone to buy it. >> Yeah. Is that with the lead? What is What would it be worth with this lead issue going on?

I mean, it's actually about $30,000 less. >> Okay. >> Um, but the problem is getting someone

that would be willing to buy it because the lead orders aren't with our name, they're with the address. So, whoever would buy it would have to they'd be in the same position that we are >> to hire a contractor and do the work, >> right? But you that would be an incentive that you would have in the sale like that would come from you. I that's what I would think >> you'd lower the cost by that amount knowing they're going to have to deal with it.

>> Uhhuh. That's why we said less 30,000 in the equity.

when we bought the house in 2021, we got a 4% interest rate and given the equity

that we have >> um it's not likely that we're going to find anything even remotely affordable

um with how interest rates are now.

>> Understood. But there's also you would have >> here's I I want to re reset where we're at. The problem is you need $30,000

>> and there's going to be limited options to get it and I'm taking debt off the table >> since you called in. I have to take debt off the table. I don't want you to go into debt. I don't want to make this worse on you.

So that means that we have to consider the options. And I'm not saying that that's the option you have to choose, but the options we have in front of us right now are what can we do that's going to find us $23 extra dollar per month. Is it something that you pick up in the night? Is it something that your husband does on the side?

Is there overtime? That's one option. Another option is, okay, we could sell this house and then take the money, park it in a high yield, maybe rent for a while or move into something smaller while we save up to buy something again.

That I mean, I have to say that this is emotional. We're talking about your home. We're talking about your family.

There's no side of this that is good or convenient or like it all sucks, right?

>> So, I'm just trying to give you options

that won't put you later in a suckier

position cuz that's what'll happen if we add debt to this.

>> When When was the house built?

>> Uh 1895.

>> You're serious?

>> Yes. Oh my god. It's an old farmhouse.

>> Okay. I just did it on a quick search.

Have you heard of the Ohio lead abatement tax credit program?

>> Yeah, our county didn't apply. That's that's a large part of our frustration is that all of those all the grants that are available for lead abatement are county by county and our county just

actually today confirmed um they didn't

apply because they didn't think it was worth it and now we're just out of luck >> and now it's too late. Wow.

>> Yeah. and they won't apply later either.

We've we've gone that route, too. We've contacted lawyers, we've contacted realtors, we've contacted state health department, local health department, county commissioner's office. >> Wow. >> Senator's office, state rep's office.

>> So, you've done your homework on that. >> Some form of assistance. Yeah.

>> The counties around us want to help us, but they're not allowed to give us any grant dollars. >> Yeah. Is there a world where you could work at night or your husband could take on a side job or do some extra mechanic work on the side to come up with this money?

>> I mean, that's pretty hit or miss. My husband's on call 24/7 for the county.

Um, so

he has to if he got a second job, it

would have to be under the understanding that he has to leave calls him.

>> So, it's kind of tough. And we live pretty rurally as well.

>> Yeah. Um, >> and what do you guys have in checking and savings right now?

>> Um, we have a little less than 300 or

$3,000 in savings that was supposed to

insulate our basement for the winter cuz it's pretty cold.

>> Um, and >> and is it safe to live in this house? Let's say you do stay for the year while you come up with the money. It's safe to live there.

>> Yes. H >> is there any way that you can file for some sort of extension or anything like that? I'm sure you've checked into that.

>> Yeah, the extensions, it's every 90 days up to a year. So, essentially our first deadline comes January 1st, but they'll give us the extensions up through September. Um after that, it's we're

really at the mercy of them. They can decide to make us leave whenever they want. And ultimately, if we can't afford the work, they can bulldoze our house that we own. >> That is so insane. >> Oh, I'm sorry. This is terrible.

>> This is like just rocking a hard place

a,000%.

If I were you, I would look into what it would be to actually sell. I don't think, you know, interest rates are now around 5 a.5%. And so, if you have four to five and a half, I don't know that it'll be a huge jump and it might get you out of the situation. And that's one option to look at if you can't increase the income cuz the problem is whatever the thing is a $10,000 emergency a 30,000 you guys are so tight right now and for the foreseeable future there's no end in sight.

So this is just a hard way to live um as you are finding out that home ownership is not cheap.

I would try to find any alternative living situation and or move out if you

can't come up with this money in the next year. I don't know that begging and pleading with the state is going to get you very far at this point. So sorry you guys are dealing with this.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Big news from our friend Jade Warshaw. Her new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is on pre-order right now. For $24.99, you get over a hundred bucks in free bonus items, including the enhanced audio book read by Jade herself. Early access to the ebook and instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade. Plus, she's doing a book club with a live Q&A. Who doesn't love a book club? It's for 3 weeks. You can get access to all of that when you pre-order today. Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Very exciting. All right, Tim is in Houston up next. What's going on, Tim?

Hi guys. Um just kind of a real quick question. Um so we've got a destination

wedding coming up in about six months

and best price it's about 2500 bucks

to go there hotel rent a car pet sitting

food and that sort of thing. Um,

however, right now it's not like we totally broke, which

we're not. But the the the problem is is

that I really don't think that this is a

a a good thing for us to do at that time. And I know that the people that invited their lifelong friends, love them to death, I know that they would be devastated.

>> Um, tell us more about your financial situation and why you think it's not a good time to spend this money.

>> Okay. It's it it kind of goes back about

oh, I guess about six years ago. Um,

I've been involved in aviation for a number of years and I saw a new technology pop up. I took it to my

company vice president and I said, "Hey, look, I'll get my commercial drone license. We'll do this, that, and the other." And I ended up spending probably

out of my own pocket because I I wanted to also do this as a as a profession

about 100 grand. And I went into debt about 40 grand on unsecured loans.

>> Mhm. And then the shutdown hit us

>> and I was out of work. I had to do engineering consulting on the side.

Fortunately, um God saw my dilemma and said, "Look,

I'm going to put you here as an engineering manager." And my wife who came alongside, she she

was she said, "We're going to buckle down. and I'm going to get hold of Ramsay's uh consulting group. And so we

brought a consultant on and about 6

months ago, we paid off all of our vehicles. We have two vehicles.

>> That's gone. Um all of our credit card

debt has been wiped out.

>> Great. >> We owe about we owe about a little under

$90,000 on our home. It's probably worth

$450. >> Okay. Um, >> and have you saved up any money yet?

>> That's the big thing. Um, so me

personally, I've had some health things

hit me. I had an accident. I had three surgeries, prostate cancer, blah blah blah. >> Gosh, I'm sorry.

>> I was almost blind in one eye and couldn't see out of the other one. So, I had to have cataract surgery.

>> Wow. >> Have you managed to stay debtree through all of that?

Um, well, my wife really likes to travel, so she's

also booked some vacations and we would

get ahead and then back.

>> So, where are you now? >> How much debt do you currently have and what do you guys currently make?

>> So, this is going to sound crazy.

>> Hit me. >> I bring home I bring home a little over

11,000 a month, which is pretty good

chunk of change. >> Yeah. What? Tell us how much debt you have. >> Well, right now we just paid off our

last vacation.

Um, we've had some things hit.

>> Bringing the total >> one word answer. How much debt do you have outside the mortgage? You have >> 90,000 $90,000 on our home.

>> That's it. No consumer debt.

>> No consumer debt. >> Okay. Okay. >> You were making it seem like, Tim, that you guys >> varying some bought Yeah. like you bought a theme park and you did all sorts of things. >> Can we agree we are not going to go into any more consumer debt for any reason?

>> Well, let me just say that we just took on a

$13,000 repair to our house, >> but I thought you said the only debt was 90,000. >> What do you mean took on? be. So, yes,

we did take that on and be about eight

It's going to be about 800 bucks a month out of our pocket. >> Tim, you just told us you had no debt.

>> Well, I'm sitting here looking at my notes. >> So, 13K 13,000 in debt and you have nothing in savings. >> No cars, no nothing.

>> That's it. >> Okay. And no money saved >> and very little saved. Now, we do have >> How much How much saved? >> Retirements. We do have retirement out there that we do we can't touch.

>> Yeah. How much cash? How much?

>> About 100. That's about 100,000.

>> Okay. >> We're trying to answer your question about this destination wedding. So, you have 13,000 left in consumer debt. You have nothing in savings.

>> We've got about five grand.

>> Five grand in savings. So, you could use four of that to attack the 13, bringing it down to nine. Then, how quickly making 11K? Your your wife isn't bringing in income right now.

Um there's some there's some things going. She's been doing consulting work and it's not a lot. I mean >> so let's pretend it's your 11K.

>> How much do you guys need to cover all the bills >> per month?

>> Um right now I mean I think I think

we're in pretty good shape. I told my wife no more vacations.

>> Yeah. >> Well, the thing is you guys aren't making a budget. this money is slipping through your fingers and you will go into debt willy-nilly on a whim cuz life is just happening to you. And so this is the part we need to get ahead of cuz truthfully there is a world where you can knock out your the rest of your 9K in debt if you do it our way.

You can build up an emergency fund and you could probably go on this wedding, go to the wedding, but I don't think you guys have it in you to follow a plan at this point >> unless you get on the same page and have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and go, "We make $11,000. Why are we going to debt for anything? I know it's that's what I said. It's crazy sounding and it is, >> but it's you guys.

It's you guys choosing and there's some behavior that has to start happening in order for you guys to write this ship. And that's that choice is yours. You know the plan. You know what the steps are.

You've done it before.

with this. >> Yeah. >> Could you scrape together $4,500 bucks a month, Tim? $4,500 a month out of your income to throw at the debt.

>> Oh, we we'll get this this um this

repair. We'll get it knocked out pretty quick. >> I'm asking you, can you do 4,500 a month? >> Um I don't know why we couldn't.

>> You tell me. Cuz so far we haven't been able to take 45.

>> It's It's because you haven't seen it on a budget. It's because you haven't seen it on a budget. >> If in two months you would knock out this debt. If you take 4,000 from your savings, throw it at the debt, you have nine left.

4,500 a month, you're done in two months. And then 4,500 a month after that, you'll have an emergency fund within three or four months and then one more paycheck and you can fund this whole destination wedding. So, I think the problem could be solved. I don't think you guys should go in the destination wedding.

I think your life is too chaotic right now. And I think your friends would understand after 19 surgeries and a lot going on. You take them out to a really nice dinner when they're back. Say, "Hey, we want to treat you to the real fancy dinner.

>> And where is the destination? Just curious. >> Uh, it's in Colorado.

>> Okay. Yeah, I think they'll be strong.

>> Well, you know, I know that there's there's there's a lot more to that whole scenario than than I would my wife's

daughters, the bridesmaid. It >> Listen, here's the thing. You could go out, and I don't know that you can with what you've been through, but maybe your wife could go out. You've got six months before this thing happens.

You could door dash and say, "I'm gonna door dash until I earn the $2,500 to take this trip. Then we'll go. It'll be debtree. It won't be part of our usual income." Sure, you could do that.

If these are family, friends, you know, I get it. I'm not going to try to make you miss out on a a huge moment if these are really special people in your lives. I I I'm not going to say that. But you have to go out and get the money.

And I don't know that you guys will do that. That's my that's my only caveat here. If you do this, somebody needs to go out and earn it. >> So the key is if you guys can get completely debtree with an emergency fund and save up for that destination wedding before it happens, then you have the green light to go on my part.

But at this point, the way you've been talking around things with lack of clarity, lack of a game plan for you and your wife, it just tells me this is going to take longer until we figure this out. So I hope you guys can get on it. I hope you can make it to the wedding.

Our scripture of the day, Matthew 7:2.

In the same way you judge others, you will be judged. And with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Mark

Twain said, "Good judgment comes from experience." And a lot of that comes from bad judgment.

>> That'll preach. >> That's great. >> That'll preach. The bad judgment leads to the experience, which hopefully, if you learn from it, leads to good judgment. >> That's wisdom. >> You got to learn from it. >> All right. David is in Tampa up next.

What's going on, David?

>> Hey, George. Hey, Jade. Thanks for everything y'all do. >> Absolutely. What's your question?

>> Um, so just a little background. I've been a longtime listener. Um, follow general principles, but I've been very Daveish recently. So, uh, just trying to

dive in and make some moves just after reevaluating some goals. So, um, I'm currently in school. I work full-time as well, so I've just been cash flowing school. I currently pay $1,000 a month, uh, towards the program, and then at the end, I could just pay off the balance in full. Um, so I've just been stacking cash um instead of working to pay off debt. I also have have debt that I'll talk about in a second, but um I have about 35,000 in savings and then the

rest of the schooling program is about three uh $30,000.

Um also I'm in few hundred,000 of

student loan debt. So, um, just trying to kickstart my journey right here and, uh, wanted to wanted to see if y'all recommend I just pay off the rest of my school balance and then that frees up my thousand a month to just contribute to paying my student loan or should I divvy it up, pay some of my school and pay pay some of the student loan.

>> Wow. What are you going to school for?

>> Nurse practitioner. >> Okay. So, the 200k was your undergrad

or what? >> 200k. I'm also a chiropractor actually.

So, undergrad plus chiropractic school.

>> Wow. >> Okay. >> Is that a combination? What are you going to be doing at the end of this?

>> Yeah. So, I'm looking to just uh expand my scope of practice as a chiropractor.

I currently can't prescribe medication or do injections. Um, so I'm just looking to be able to pro provide more services for my patients. So, okay, >> that's my game plan. >> And what are you making per month?

>> Per month about 8,000.

>> Okay. So, you can stack cash pretty fast. My goal would be to avoid going into any more debt. And if that means pausing the student loan debt while I cash flow this the rest of school, I would do that. >> It sounds like you're already doing that though, right?

>> Yeah, I I've got I could pay off my schooling program today. Um, so I wanted to see if y'all recommend that or should I put some of that towards this?

>> You're already you're already cash flowing like the current year and then you've got Did you I didn't hear if you said it was 30k for the rest or 20k?

>> 30k for the rest of the program. I've got about 35 >> and yeah. So, you keep 5,000 saved and then you could I mean essentially you could drop that down to 1,000 uh on the two 200,000 and with your $8,000 a

month, how much of that would you be putting on the the 200,000 chiropractor

deal?

>> About 4,000 a month.

>> Listen, get into it.

>> Yeah, >> I love that. >> That's about 50 grand a year. So, worst case, you're done in four years. Now, hopefully your income is going to drastically go up, right?

Right. That's the plan. >> And what is that going to take?

>> Uh, what do you mean? I'm sorry. >> How How do you get to 10, 12, 15 grand a

month income from where you're at right now? >> Uh, well, I could open up my own practice.

Uh, that's that's definitely a long-term goal. I just want to approach that correctly without going into >> Yeah, that sounds super expensive.

Usually when people say that, it's like, well, I took on a million dollars of debt to start my own practice, >> right? >> Yeah. No way on the radar at all.

>> Um, I mean, just continue working where I'm at. Maybe work more hours with additional responsibilities as as a nurse practitioner role as well. Um, >> so are you going to get paid more once you're done with the NP program?

>> I'm confused why that's helping you right now as you're working for someone else.

>> Well, the the nurse practitioner program is more long-term for when I'm on my own, but the current practice I work at is multi-disiplinary. So they they have nurse practitioners that provide other services as well. So I can get a increase in salary where I >> That's what I was aiming at. Can we get an instant pay increase when you're done with this program, >> right? Because provide more services.

>> Yeah. The goal would be to knock it out even faster than four years. And if you stay focused, keep living like you are now, keep living on less than you make, you'll get there. But I like the plan of, you know, when is that 30K due that's left for school? Is that a per semester payment you need to make?

>> Oh, no. That's not due until January 2027. >> Okay, great. Because I'm like, if it's not due yet, I would wait until it is due.

>> Okay. So, you recommend I just hold on to that for now? >> You keep it in a high yield savings account and then when the payment comes due, you you'll know you have the money

>> as long as you won't go spend it elsewhere. >> But you recommend I don't just pay it all off today. >> Well, I mean, is it When you say it's due, is it just the payment is due? It's not a debt currently.

>> No, it's not debt. It's a It's just a payment plan and then at the end at the end of the program >> then you just pay off the rest in full.

So I'm just paying a thousand a month. >> Is there any can you garner any incentive to pay it early? >> If you said, "Hey, I'm going to pay this all cash up front." Would they give you five or 10% off, for example?

>> I'd ask. >> I've not asked that, but I can definitely ask that. >> Worth looking into. >> I'm looking for any way to make this cheaper and make this go faster.

But you're on the right track, man. You're doing a lot of things right. I'm proud of you. Usually you get these calls from, you know, the chiropractors and the NPs.

>> I mean, he's got a lot of debt, but he's doing he's making the right moves to get rid of this fast, and I think he'll get there quickly. >> Joe is in LA up next.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, I got a question. I have currently uh me and my wife, we work two, we work uh we both have two incomes. Um, I have uh about

100 grand in uh high yield savings account right now. And my question is, should I use that towards uh I have a a high mortgage that's $4,500 a month, 7%

interest rate. Um should I use that to

pay off pay down my mortgage uh and maybe get a a better interest rate or should I keep that in the high savings high high yield savings account?

>> What do you guys recommend? >> Well, I have two questions before we decide. First off, I want to know how much you bring in every month with all those four incomes combined. You said you and your wife both have two jobs.

>> It's one and one. One job and one job.

>> Oh, I thought you said you and your both wife both had two. Okay. Well, what's the income total? >> Sounds. Yeah. Uh 10 grand for both of us. >> Okay. That's why you're hurting. Yeah.

>> That's half your take on pay. >> Do you have any other debts?

>> Yeah. Uh we do have 15 grand in in debt.

Um, but that's it's we're not getting hit with any interest or anything.

That's kind of a uh What kind of debt is% interest rate?

>> It's a consumer debt, but it's um on credit cards for 18 month financing credit cards. >> And what are the payments? That's that's it's still a payment.

>> Yeah, it's still payment. Uh payments are about 500 a month.

>> Yeah, man. This the the mortgage and these credit cards are eating your lunch. >> Yeah. You got a can of bear spray right now and there's a bear coming at you. I'd use the spray in the can and that's your 100k. So, I would pay off your 15,000 today. That leaves you with 85.

Uh, then you have the mortgage. That's all that's left, right?

>> Yeah. The mortgage, which is 518, 518,000.

>> Yeah. >> So, paying it down isn't just going to lower the payment. You're going to have to refinance or recast it in order to get a different payment. Are you talking about refinancing?

>> I'm talking about refinancing because currently when I we got the property, it was 7%. Now, it's like at 6.2. too. I'm

hoping it could get like at a five later on, but um so I was kind of waiting to see if the interest rates go down. I've been watching them for the past couple years. >> Um but um >> yeah, do the break even on that cuz the refinance is going to cost you and so you're find out how quickly you'll actually recoup that that money and how quickly you can get this manageable. But I like the plan of taking 15, paying off the debt and leaving enough for your emergency fund.

Anything above that, chunk it at the mortgage and refinance and it's going to lower your payment to make it more manageable. I'd love for you to get this payment closer to three grand.

>> Cuz right now, you know, half of it, half of your take-home pay is going just toward this mortgage.

>> Is there a world where you guys increase your income?

>> Um, yeah. Actually, my wife's working on her uh PE to her PE um professional

engineering uh license.

>> How long will that What's the timeline?

I'm going uh hopefully the next couple

months. >> Oh, >> she's studying. She's studying right now. So, she's just got to take the state test. >> Okay. >> Awesome.

>> Yeah. And then me, I'm trying to go back to school so I can get my degree, too.

So, we're trying we're trying to increase our income, but um as far as um

yeah, the rate you So, I should just wait until uh >> I would contact our friends at Church Hill Mortgage >> a little bit more. >> Yeah, contact our friends at Church Hill. they can run the numbers with you and show you, hey, does this make sense right now or not. Uh, but I think if you paid down the loan by another 50 grand and refinance, I think you could see the numbers start to make sense.

So, give them a call and see what they have to say. But I would knock out this debt today at least and use anything above the emergency fund to start tackling that mortgage. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 149. Stop Letting Dumb Decisions Control Your Financial Future | March 18, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:40:36 |

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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Delony, host of The Dr. John Delony Show and [music] number one best-selling author Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Anne is with us in Nashville. Hi, Anne. How are you? Hi. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so, I am calling today because

essentially um my husband and I have been married 10 years.

Um in that 10 years, we've never had shared bank accounts. Um essentially,

when I was graduating college, my grandmother on her deathbed told me, "Don't ever let a man control your money. You make it, you control it." And

I kind of took that to heart cuz she never left a bad marriage because she didn't have money to do so.

Um so, we're 10 years in and now I'm I feel

completely hoodwinked because

my husband has been using the money that he has like using cash. I don't know where the like the cash is going, but he's been apparently apparently funding his entire life on an Amex card that I just found out has an $18,000 balance at a 30% interest rate.

And when I confronted him about it, I told him he needed to cancel the card that we were going to be eating rice and beans because this was absolutely unacceptable. But, he told me he was going to take care of it. He was going to have make a budget.

He didn't want me talking to him like that. Didn't want me talking to him like he was a child.

So, I mean >> you suddenly decided you wanted to interfere in his money. Yeah.

>> After 10 years of telling him you wanted nothing to do with him.

No wonder he's pissed.

Well, I mean I'm over here like Well, I know. But, you you lost all the right to vote on his money when you said I'm not going to vote on your money.

You you you you you you decided out of the gate, I'm going to I'm going to row in my boat, you row in yours. And now you're mad at the direction he's rowing.

Yeah, but my money's paying for our entire life. So, >> Well, that's not a new thing.

No.

But, so this is the other thing. So, he is disabled and he gets like this pension and for years I thought this pension was a pittance. Like I literally was like, okay, he's he pays like the utilities and whatever.

Um well, I found out to this pension is not a pittance. Like apparently, you know, because I'm like

paying for all of our insurance premiums, like putting money in a 403b, putting money into our kids college savings plans, you know, eye insurance,

dental insurance for everyone, he brings home more money than I do now.

Okay, okay, but hold on.

You're W- why are you blaming him?

This is the arrangement y'all co-created at your direction based on bad advice from your grandma.

You're blaming him that he makes a bunch of money and you didn't know about it.

>> Okay. You get what I'm saying?

Well, I mean >> ask him?

I did. So, several times like I'd asked him and several times I was like, you know, hey, you know, this is what's going like this is what's going on. Like this is how I'm budgeting things. This is what's going on with everything." And you know, I'd be like,

"Do you want to like go ahead and start working together?" And he would be like, "Well, I don't know how to change my direct deposit or I don't know how to do online banking." Or you know, it would always be something some reason. But then I was just non-confrontational, so I never just, you know, try to peg him down on it. >> Well, but but also he has a very real lived experience that things are going to be done your way, the way you want them, at your direction.

You know what I'm saying? There there there's a difference between, "Hey, look at all the stuff I'm having to pay for.

Do you want to start combining money and do it my way?" And him going, "Nope." Or you saying, "Hey, I set us out on a on on a bad course. I thought the greatest way to keep myself safe was to keep myself disconnected from my spouse.

And I was wrong.

And I want a chance to rebuild this thing from the ground up. Will you be in this with me?" And that means we're going to combine everything including our fears, our shame, our embarrassments, and our money. And we got to be united in this thing. So you see how one of those is an accusation and one of those is a demand and one of those is an invitation.

Yeah. Right?

But now I'm left with like, you know, I've created, you know, this budget. I have sinking funds. I have you know, >> Listen, you got to change your language.

I I I he he he. You have to change it to we. So, okay. You know what I'm saying?

>> I do, but now we have this like $18,000

credit card with a 30% interest rate.

>> of doing business poorly. Yeah. Yes. So, what do I do? How do I tell him?

>> Send the bill to your grandmother.

>> [laughter] >> She caused it.

We have to decide that we are going to do money differently. We're going to be connected and we are both going to get this debt paid off and we are going to decide how we spend money and I'm going to stop lecturing you and being mad at you and also I'm going to tell you He didn't do anything wrong, by the way.

He's just doing what y'all arranged together. He did nothing wrong in this thing. He did exactly what you told him to do. He went over there and lived his life and then you're bitching about how he lived it.

You can't do that you don't get it both ways. Yeah, you got to come back together. Yeah, so the two of you sit down start fresh and go, "Okay, I want a do-over. The two of us are going to become one like the preacher says and now you are one and we're going to put all of our money in the middle of the table and I'm not going to gripe at you about the 18,000.

We're going to cut up the MX card and what and and together we're going to decide what we are going to spend on fun, what we are going to spend on life,

what we are going to put in the kids 529, how we are going to pay the insurance bills and we together are putting all of our money and he gets a vote and you get a vote on how this

budget looks. And if he says no, I'm not I don't know how I'm not going to fix my direct deposit, then y'all have a much bigger issue in your marriage than just doing money separately. You get what I'm saying? >> I guess I do cuz it just I guess it feels kind of like dishonest that he's let me believe for 10 years that he's got this like pittens of an income. >> I don't think so.

Maybe you are working really hard to make him a bad guy in this and I I want you to reframe that cuz it's your fault.

I I really I mean that'll be good for your marriage. Cuz I got I got to tell you I don't want to change my deposit because my wife thinks I've been lying to her for 10 years and I don't think I'm my vote's going to count in this budget meeting. I'll bet you he doesn't want to change the deposit then. Yeah, but I I wouldn't either.

I wouldn't either. So And if if if If been saying, "Hey, I need some help." and he says, "I don't have any money." and he's been lying to you, that's one thing. >> That's a different issue. >> doesn't sound like that's been happening.

Yeah, might have, but even then, uh you know, he certainly didn't come full forward and go, "Look, I make more than you on my disability check." He didn't do that, and he should have.

That's not going to work. >> It has to be an invitation. Yep, not going to work. Almost all invitations start with I statements. I messed this up. I want to do this different. I want us to be together. Will you join me in this? And it's going to take us changing the way we do everything. >> And you get a vote, and I get a vote, and [music] we're going to agree like two grown-ups together. I'm not your mama, and I'm not going to at you about this anymore. [music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. Uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens. Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in

coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just straightforward term life protection. But there's another piece that people often overlook and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them.

Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work. So it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great.

Take it. If it's a discounted there at a better price, take it.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money's still showing up.

And that's why Zander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. I've trusted Jeff Zander and Zander Insurance for over 25 years

and so is my family. So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Susanna's in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Hi Susanna, how are you?

Hi, I'm doing well, Dave. Thanks for asking and thanks for taking my call.

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Hi, so yeah, um me and my husband, we just recently got married a little under a year ago, we're going on a year. I am 29, he's um 29 as well, we're the same age. And we just have decision financial fatigue from trying to decide whether we should continue to invest. Um I'm kind of going on the route of investing still or pay

off our debt. Um so my husband and I, we

make about 11,500 a month right now, which will be our highest income.

Congratulations. >> is great.

Thank you. How much debt do you have?

We have 85,000 in debt. On what?

So, I have 24,000 on my car. We just paid off his car, which was 26,000. We just did that last month. Mhm. Um very good.

Yeah, so that was a huge lift.

Now we're trying to decide like do we continue and then I have 61,000 in student loans, unfortunately. Got you.

Okay. And you're 29 years old. All right. So, let me let's pan out a little

bit from instead of looking at the actual situation right there in front of you and ask what is the goal

with your money?

Okay? Cuz it it'll affect what what you

should do. Okay, so in other words, goal number one could be uh I'm going to live my life wide open right now. I'm going on six cruises a year. I'm going to do whatever I want to do. I make $11,000. That's a That's a goal. And if that's your goal, it's a different answer. If your goal is

um I want to live a good, solid life.

I'm willing to be sacrificial for a short period of time to increase the speed at which we build

wealth, which will allow us to be outrageously generous and do anything we want to do, which is the goal we usually are aligning people to, okay?

So, what's the fastest way to become wealthy, in other words, so that I can live the life I want to live and change my family tree and be outrageously generous? So, what's the fastest way to become wealthy? If that's the goal, then I can help you.

Yes. Yes, that would be the goal and then >> Okay, then the data says stop stop all investing temporarily and pay off the 85,000 as fast as you possibly can, and here's why. Okay, here's what the data says this. We studied 10,167 millionaires, the largest study of millionaires ever done.

What we found was is that they increased the speed at which their net worth went up, their 401k's got fully funded, they jammed them up, and they got their home paid off when they got rid of their debt, because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income, and right now the bone marrow is being sucked out of your income with $85,000 worth of boat crap.

Mhm. Okay. >> when you get rid of that, it increases the velocity of your wealth building.

That's what the data tells us from studying millionaires. And and actually the math will tell you that, too, when you think about, okay, all those payments on that $85,000, what if we just put that into an investment? Oh, that's $5 million in 5 years or 10 years or 20 years or whatever it is, right?

And so it turned you you see, those payments are mathematically the arithmetic is sucking the marrow out of your investments. And and so you're trying to do some investing because you want to build wealth, meanwhile you're limping along in mediocrity because a large portion of

your $11,000 is going to past stupidity.

Yes, very true. Yeah. And that that's normal, I mean, that's normal. So, but but so what we have found is is that with your income, you'll be debt free in about 18 months if you go crazy for a short period of time. And say, all right, we're not going out to eat, we're going to sell so much stuff the kids can't have their next, we're not going on vacation, we're going to clear the stinking $85,000 because it's between me and winning.

Okay.

Okay, I definitely see holding perspective on it.

Sacrificing now will get us to the long-term wealth. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's the you had the right goal. The only question is what's what's the most effective path to that goal, right?

And so that that and that's what we've come down to. We figured that, you know, from 30 years of sitting in the seat answering these questions and helping people become millionaires, tens of thousands of them.

Um and and and and and Sharon and I did and and the Ramsey personalities did and I talked to two of my leaders downstairs a while ago. They just both of them paid off their house in the last 3 weeks and both of them said, "Since we paid off our house, that put us at the millionaire mine, you know, the the millionaire net worth and then and then boom, with no stinking house payments >> Cuz I'm going to put that in a calculator. Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Well, you put a house payment in a calculator and you go, "Hey, there What's that turn into in 20 years?" It's not a million. It's like 10 million.

Well, and and Dave, I I think there's for me personally, in my house, there's a whole other side of this equation, which is as the news gets crazy, as the world gets crazy, knowing that like like the the banks don't care. You

signed up to make a payment every month.

This student loan payment is due. This car payment is due. This mortgage payment is due. It doesn't matter if you lose your job. That payment's still due. It doesn't matter if your hours get cut. That payment's still due. Taking that stuff off your risk profile lets you sleep, man. It just changes the temperature and the tension in your home. And that to me is worth as much as my like my overall net worth portfolio.

It's just having peace in my house. >> weird is it's not only just that. That then causes you to make different decisions that are wiser and that accelerates your wealth building. >> Yes. Because you're coming from peace, Yes. >> not from We've all We've all been approached by a salesman that is happy to help us and

wants us to to win and we've also been approached by a salesman who we can argue we know, "Oh, you need the sale." Right? Those are That level of desperation is just different and you are more successful. I I to work with that guy that wants to help me out, not the one that needs me to overspend, right? So, anyway, I There There's the money part, but man, there's that peace part. >> And they just do work together.

>> so well together. Really cool. So, hey, thanks for calling. Joy's in Orlando.

Hey Joy, what's up?

Good. How are you? I was wondering, my

dad is offering to be a bank as I'm

looking for homes, and I'm wondering if that's okay to take him up on that offer OR IF I SHOULD JUST NO!

RUN, JOY, RUN! Your dad's Your dad is sweet. >> He's sweet, but don't do it. Here's why.

>> That's That's what I thought, but I thought I should ask. The The The old joke is if you loan your brother-in-law $100 and he never speaks to you again, was it worth it?

>> [laughter] >> So, the borrower is slave to the lender,

and when you owe put someone money, even

someone as sweet as your dad, and your dad's a really nice guy.

I mean, cuz jerks don't offer to give their daughter like bank money, right?

So, loan their daughter bank money. But, when you eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master, even if he's a nice master,

it still tastes different.

Yeah. You're right. And um and you're

You're looking over your shoulder wondering if he's judging the vacation you're taking while you owe him money.

Are you married, Joy?

I'm not. >> Okay. Yeah. I promise if you start dating somebody or you go get married and you still are in this arrangement, that's going to be real weird between the two of them. Here's what I would do.

I would tell my dad, I would take him out for a breakfast somewhere, not super expensive, but kind of nice, and I would tell him, "Thank you so much, but I want you to always just be my dad." Aw. You get what I'm saying? I want to preserve that I want to preserve that relationship. I don't ever want it to be weird. Let me do banking with banks. I want you to always just be my dad.

And if he decides to gift you a hundred thousand dollars instead of loaning it to you, you can take it. >> Take it all day long. >> [laughter] >> Take Take it all day long.

Oh, that's so funny.

>> [laughter] >> I didn't say I didn't say you bring it up. I said if he decides.

I mean, you might want to bring it up.

Just kidding. No, that that Yeah, be careful. This is the This ends up poorly. So, when I went broke and lost everything, uh Sharon's dad loaned us money.

>> Mhm. And Sharon's dad, he's 97 now.

>> [music] >> He's the nicest man I've never known.

He's the sweetest, kindest, gentlest guy. He never said >> [music] >> an unkind word.

And I got to pay back really really fast.

And it drove me bonkers. YEAH. I COULDN'T STAND IT. And

Sharon's like, "Listen, no big deal. It's just my dad." >> The shadow of her dad was over your house. >> Yeah. [screaming] And the mess of having gone broke, lost everything, bankrupted, and shamed. Now, her daddy has to come bail you out.

And I have to eat Thanksgiving dinner there. Uh and he never said a stinking word. None of that's on him. It's all on me. But, it proved to me that point, the borrower is [music] slave to the lender.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Doug is in Philadelphia. Hi, Doug. How are you? Good. How are you, sir? Thank you so much for having me on the show. Sure.

How can we help?

So, I excuse me, I am in baby step two

of my financial journey, and I got a part-time job. I work a full-time job, but I got a part-time job at a big box home improvement store.

And when I started there, you know, credit cards were always a thing. I have never signed anybody up for one. I refuse to do it. I have no issue and I I will never do it.

And it was really never a big deal when they would ask, you know, I'd tell them, "Nobody wants to already has one." But uh they've really been recently pushing. Like every day I go in, "Hey, you haven't signed anybody up for a credit card. Hey, you haven't signed anybody up for a credit card." And now they're starting to offer HELOCs.

And my my conundrum is is do I I I only

got about 9 10 months left there before I have a completed my my goals and I'm actually out of baby step three. Do I just continue to play that game and say, "Oh, yeah, it's fine." or do I say sit down with my manager and say, "Hey, here's here are my values. Here are my convictions and I will not push these products onto people and my I myself am

here trying to get out of debt." Yeah.

Well, if you do that, you're going to get fired.

Yeah.

So, um an easier method would be just quit. Be easier. Be easier on everybody. Um

or you can just ride it out for 9 months and you know. But but it's the business that they're in and it's they have now said, "Okay, you work for us. Your job is

to help someone find the bolt, the screw, the lock and to sign them up for a credit card. That's your job and if you're not doing that, you're not doing your job." That's what they're saying.

Right? Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. And so and and and you don't want to do that and um so uh

I honestly I think you probably get another job that doesn't require that that pays about the same, don't you?

Yeah. Yeah. I I enjoy helping

I have a maintenance background so I really enjoy helping customers figure out their problems and and helping them with their DIY projects and yeah.

>> Yeah. And I enjoy that doing that aspect

of it and like at first I never had a problem. It was never really pushed.

Yeah. Uh the the whole credit card thing but now it's almost it's every day I walk in and and it's just I want to say to them like I'm not doing that. Yeah. I will help customers uh get their product. I'll help I'll help them with their their their problems and help them solve them and fix it but I'm not pushing the credit card. And I told my wife I said I I I understand the the moral aspect of it, but the bottom line is is they own the company.

And they said this is your job and you don't want to do the job.

Yes. I guess. Yeah, you're right. It shouldn't be the job. The job ought to be what you're talking about, helping people with their DIY project and it ought to be fun to do that. Um, I have a friend that uh back during COVID was bored and he went to work in one of those stores and the thing that drove him crazy was they had a policy that no matter what happens, if someone wants to return something, you have to take it back.

And he had a guy come in that had had a lawnmower for 2 years mowing his grass with it and brought it back said I don't like it. And he's supposed to give him a full credit. And he goes, that's immoral. I'm not doing that. And they go, yeah, you are. And he goes, no, that's wrong. That guy's ripping us off. We shouldn't do that. And they go, no, that's our policy. We take it back no matter what, no matter how absurd. And and they fired him.

Cuz he wouldn't take the lawnmower. He said, I'm not going to do it. And and they're like, well, that's what your job is. You work for us. Well, they that's true. If you work for someone and they tell you this is your job, you have to do the job or you don't get to work there. I mean, that's a simple thing, right? So, um I I I don't disagree with the um

the angst that is created by you here. I

I honestly, if I were in your shoes, I'd go look for something else. If you want to sit down with your supervisor and say, hey, listen, I don't want to cause a stink. I don't want to get fired and and I'm not going to make some big moralistic speech here, but I'm here to help people with their DIY stuff and I really enjoy that and I'm really not going to be doing this credit card thing. If you think I should quit, if that's the case, you tell me.

You could do that.

Okay. And Doug, can I can I pass something along to you? And this is the pot talking to the kettle here.

Yeah, absolutely. How often do you spend having imaginary conversations with your boss and your owners.

Uh I've I've had a couple. You've had a bunch. Where you you're going to sit them down, you're going to tell them, and they're going to be like, "Oh, that's right. That's what's up." And you always have the mic drop moment at the end, and it feels so good. Let me tell you this. >> It's not going to work that way. >> Those imaginary conversations are a complete and utter waste of your time.

In fact, they're not even benign. They detract energy that you could be spending on loving your wife well, loving your kids well, and being at peace.

And so, commit to not having imaginary conversations. Either have it or don't,

and then seek like Dave's like, "Man, you're you're working a part-time job. Go find another part-time job, man." And then sail off into the sunset. I I'm not going to give you my character and my integrity and extra energy that could go

to my family. I'm not going to do it.

Terra is in Birmingham. Hey, Terra, what's up?

Hi, I am a 29-year-old single

veterinarian. I am 3 years out from

school and having pre-marriage discussions with my boyfriend. Yay. We neither have debt. He owns his house. My

student loans are our big discussion point. I have 301,000 in student loans

with a 57% average interest. I No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, wait, stop, stop, stop, stop. You said 57%.

>> 5.7?

5.7. >> Yeah, okay. >> Dang, Gina, that's going to be That's going to be expensive. >> So, a little different. Okay. All right.

>> [laughter] >> I'm sorry.

Now, who Who's we owe here, yeah?

>> the federal government. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And I make 97,000 a year. Mhm.

So, I was planning on student loan forgiveness, but I don't trust that it's going to stay around, and we're looking at potentially having kids before then.

Mhm. And I don't know that I will stay full-time. I'd rather set aside money for my own small business.

But I have such a large sum of student

loans. I'm not sure what I should prioritize. Paying it off

before kids come or setting aside money

for my own business so I can have that option when kids come and and could big

lots of money. >> No. Um here's the thing.

I know a lot of veterinarians. We work with a lot of them in entre leadership and I've got several personal friends that were veterinarians and um you you're always very very intelligent people because you know, a medical doctor only has to learn one body system. You have to learn multiple species body systems.

And so um uh I know that you're a bright person or you wouldn't be a DVM, okay? So um uh and you you work really really hard

to get to be a DVM.

And you sacrificed a lot of your future

and $300,000 to get to be a DVM.

And so I want to quit and stay home and raise babies. You gave that up when you signed up for 300K until you get the 300K cleared.

You're a vet you're a vet. You signed up to be a vet, kiddo.

Now you got to go be a vet and you got to get the stinking mess cleaned up.

That's why I want to have my business >> No, you don't you you don't have the money to do a business. You're broke.

>> Yeah. You're $300,000 in debt. You make 97 a year and you can make 150 a year by just picking up side gigs, working in medicine, and some of the other stuff, and you need to go to go to work. You need to work 24/7 all the time

and get this out of your life. Now, if you guys get married and you can live on his income, and it sounds like he's very financially responsible, well, if you're making 100, you can clean up 300 pretty quick, can't you?

Yeah. >> Making 150, you can clean it up even quicker. And if he throws in, if he's got money to add that that when y'all combine income, that's even faster. >> you do anything, before we talk about I want to quit and stay home, you don't start talking about starting a business and I want to quit and stay home in the same sentence.

Those are incongruent.

Yeah. >> So, you got to decide which you is going to be. But, for now, eight years ago, you decided you were going to be a vet, $300,000 worth of hole worth. [music] And so, now you got to clean up your mess.

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Well, we wish we could get to every call and every question here on the show. If you got a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey.

Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's

built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. Can you imagine if we dumped like seven years of radio calls and podcast calls into an AI and let it know how to answer exactly how we would answer. Oh, and all the Financial Peace University lessons. Oh, and all the books I've written. All dumped in there and then you can answer the question the way we would answer the question, right? That's what Ask Ramsey is and it's completely free.

You're going to get answered the same way we would. Maybe not quite the level of snark, but probably some level of snark. Ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Matthew is in Orlando. Hi Matthew, how are you?

I'm good. Appreciate you both taking my call. Sure. What's up? >> Um So, I'm looking to be a first-time home buyer. I'm 27 years old and I have about $120,000 saved up towards um my house.

>> that?

Uh just staying out of debt for a number of years. It builds up over time. Look at you. What do you make a year?

Um about 80,000 after like stocks that

my company gives and stuff like that. did >> you heard that all Gen Z's life has been ruined by the real estate market?

That it's impossible for you to buy a house and yet you, young man, went out and saved $120,000. I'm so proud of you.

Well, thank you.

Um but yeah, I just want to make a wise decision with my first home buy. Um I I

think I can comfortably get over the 20% needed for a PMI.

Um but I wanted to get as much um direction as I possibly could.

Okay. What are you thinking about doing?

I want to buy a smaller home, so something like a $250 to $300,000 range.

Um but I want to make sure that the my

funds I'm putting in like are going to give me still a comfortable home that I can be able to enjoy for that range.

Yeah, that makes sense. Well, that just involves a lot of shopping.

And so what happens is I know I have found this when I teach um leadership I I often tell guys when they're making decisions and gals when you're making decisions he with the most options

and the most patience makes the best decision.

They also win the They also win more negotiations, by the way. So, options mean you look at a lot of properties.

You don't go look at three and buy the fourth one.

And you learn you learn the market, you drive the neighborhoods, you drive them on Friday night to see if it sounds different in the neighborhood than it does on Thursday morning.

You you know, you check the traffic patterns, you learn and you feel the air, and you look at the properties, you look at how old they are, how worn out the appliances are, you know, what am I getting myself into? And you just gather data and and let that data soak into your brain and it'll become what's called common sense after a while.

And then you'll make a much better choice than somebody that just moves to town and looks at three houses, right?

Okay. You're you're a you're a marathon runner anyway. You're not a sprinter.

You you like to go steady.

That's your style. I can tell by the way you raised that money. You saved that money over time.

Right. Use that same personality trait to make this decision.

Okay. Yeah, I was wondering about just I was told like foreclosure was an option, but I'm not very comfortable with that kind of thought that I didn't know if maybe a home inspection would be enough to kind of warrant some of the the risk that might be coming with that.

You you need a home inspection. You need a home inspection and a title policy no matter what you buy.

Foreclosure doesn't necessarily mean bargain, and it doesn't necessarily mean the property's trashed.

But it could mean both.

So, you just get in there and dig around and you go, "Okay, I looked at four houses on the street. They're all 300.

This one's 150, but it needs a roof. It's going to need all new landscaping, and I'm going to have to paint it, and all new appliances in the kitchen's got to be torn out. Okay, so I'm going to have another 100 in it. And so, I'm going to have 250 in it when I'm done, but it'll be like new.

But people buy it and think they got a deal just cuz it said foreclosure, but it's the same stinking numbers as the house next door.

Right. That's not a deal.

So, you you know the you know a deal because you've looked at the other ones that aren't a deal.

Got you. Okay. And then, you know, I wouldn't suggest you get into a heavy rehab, but if you need some new bushes and a new paint job, you can probably do that one. But I wouldn't on my first home, 27 years old, I wouldn't suggest becoming a remodeler all of the sudden.

Okay. Just because they do it on TikTok, doesn't mean you need to do it.

Right. >> Yeah. I got a feeling you're going to do really well, Matthew.

That guy's got it. He's got it figured out, John. Yeah, I like that guy, man.

And and it's uh I think you the the word you use that resonated with me is patience. And for a guy like that, once he flips the switch, I'm going to buy Mhm. the real challenge is can you take 6 weeks or 6 months and just go slow and the right place will emerge. You got you you you have cash and you've got diligence and you've got a good salary.

You're good. Yeah, there's not there's nothing on fire. >> patient, yeah. Yeah, dig dig up a dig up something that you like the house and it's in good enough condition that you can see it becoming with the money that you have uh the place that you're going to be for a while. Yeah. Uh don't call it your forever home because it's not. There's only one forever home, heaven.

John's in Detroit. Hey, John, what's up?

Hey, guys. Thanks for talking to me. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

Oh, man. Um so, about 6 months ago, I had about 250k in the bank. Um I lived

in a $900 apartment, debt-free and owned my car, and I'm a self-employed musician, so I was doing pretty good, making about uh 50 to 60 take-home a year. So, I decided to purchase a home um back in November, put about half down

on it, and ever since then I've been uh recently sick. I actually got sick from the anxiety of owning a home, and I feel like I'm over-leveraged. My mortgage is about 1,500 bucks a month.

Um and uh um I I recent I I did get sick from uh

kind of having the mortgage and the stress of it. And then I was in a car accident. My car got totaled, so I had ended up having to get a vehicle. And now I have a loan on it for about nine

uh $9,000, 12,000 with warranty. I'm going to cancel the warranty.

So now I have Half my money's gone. I have about 100K left in the bank um because I was sick. I have uncertainty for the future. And you know, I'm just kind of really frightened about being a self-employed uh first-time home buyer. I've been a musician for 30 years. And I was actually considering maybe selling my house um to restart >> is your house payment?

It is 1,500 a month.

>> say that. I'm sorry.

No, that's okay. >> And and you make uh $4,000 a month.

Uh it roughly 4 to 5,000 depending on

the season. So it it >> have any other payments.

Um no, besides my And you have $100,000

in the bank. Right. But I uh sir, I do have um

my taxes coming up, which is about 5,000. I have to replace a garage roof for about 3,000. I didn't escrow my property taxes, which I think I might do. And that's about 6,700 a year

because I thought I'd >> So you've still got $75,000, and then we paid off the car. So now we've still got $65,000, and you have no payments and nothing outstanding.

That's right. Have you ever owned a home before, John?

Uh no. That's it. When I When I got in there, I I I'm 53. And I overpaid for it. It was in the height of the market. >> Ho- hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

Like Yes. You've never done this thing before.

That's right. >> So cut yourself some slack. Give yourself some grace.

You're doing a thing that you've never done before. You've never felt this kind of weight on the squat bar. You got two guys telling us telling you, "We know you can lift this." Oh, is that what you guys are saying? So I'm like it's a bad idea to sell the house. So I'm like you it's a bad idea to sell a house. Here's what is important and Dave has helped me with this a lot personally.

Is when I feel something really big

especially about money, it's always important to look at the math on the paper.

Facts are your friends. >> Facts are your friends. The facts are the 1,500 out of 4,000 shouldn't cause you any stress.

Especially when you got 65,000 in the bank and zero debt and zero bills.

And that's where you are. So, the stress is manufactured. It's not mathematical.

[music] The house is not causing you stress.

Your perception of the house is causing you stress. >> Amen. Amen.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] studio.

Dr. John Delony, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Andrew is with us in

Louisville, Kentucky. Hey, Andrew, what's up?

Hey, Dave. How's it going, man? Um Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Well, um so I'm 21 and I got two kids

and um I made some financial mistakes uh around age of 18

and I'm $70,000 in debt now.

Um and here recently, I got into a settlement and I'm going to be getting around $250,000.

And um I'm wanting to play the waiting game. I don't want to pay it off. I just want to let it fall off on its own.

And I want the best advice on what I can do. >> off? Fall off of what?

>> Uh fall off of my report, the statute of limitations. No, honey. You owe the money. >> [laughter] >> Oh, man. >> Correct. I know, but I still >> So, how did you get $250,000?

What happened? Uh so, um my kids'

mom bought him a 3D printed firearm or I

mean a 3D printer and he 3D printed a firearm with it.

And he accidentally shot me and I'm now

I went after her homeowner's insurance policy and that's what I got out of it.

That's the wildest thing I've ever heard. You got shot by a 3D printed firearm?

Yes. So, the handle, the lower handle,

the magazine, and then the slide part is all 3D printed. The only thing metal would be the barrel, the trigger mechanism, and the bullets.

And how old is this kid? I'm just curious. This is just fascinating.

14.

And he knows how to build a firearm from scratch.

I mean, yeah. Well, there's YouTube, I guess. >> Yeah, he he might have tried. Wow. It's a wild world we live in. >> Yeah. This that's nuts. Okay, so her her they pay off 250 grand.

You owe 70,000 on what?

Um Dodge Hellcat. I'll just I put it put it to you there. I went and got it brand new. Um Where is it?

>> I got to prove Uh it's gone.

Um Where'd it go? >> reason they did It got sold.

Okay. Uh you got you got repoed.

Uh I couldn't tell you. I I have no idea.

You you weren't that drunk. Where'd the car go?

It got sold. And it got >> Who sold it? You had to sell it. You owned it.

Yes. Okay. So, you sold it. It didn't get sold. I sold it. Okay. When you sold

it how you didn't pay it off?

No. How did you sell a car and get title without paying it off?

No title. Um that's a lot of the deals nowadays.

People like cars that way.

Um what had happened was the fuel pump had went out and it was going to cost around $1,500 for just the part alone.

Um and you know, as I mentioned being 18 and I made bad financial >> days I'm kind of up on and I never heard anybody buying a dead gum car without a title. How did you get tags?

Uh they it came with it.

They didn't buy it for um I guess you'd say leisurely driving if that makes sense.

Are they too fast, too furious?

Yeah, uh drug dealer doing runs. And so, they didn't So, it's still titled to you. No, I would say more like track

track stuff cuz a lot of the tracks they don't require cars to have titles or VINs or anything like that. All right.

So, you owe $70,000 on a car that you didn't pay off when you sold it.

Correct. All All of it is that?

Yes, that's it. Okay. Well, when you get your 250, you write a check and you pay the people that you owe because you screwed them. Yes.

Correct. Yeah. >> Okay, good. Now we have Now we have 180.

Now, my question would be though, could I come at them with say 50

full check I don't know you come at them with anything. I don't know. I I I want you to be a person of integrity here, brother.

Like you walked into a place even though you're 18 and you said, "Hey, I'll give you this amount of money if you give me that car right now." and they said, "Deal." And they made a bad deal and you were 18 didn't know what you're doing, but you shook hands and signed a piece of paper, brother.

Correct. >> And just because a 14-year-old printed a gun and shot you

with it like that and you have this windfall of cash all of a sudden. Thank God you weren't permanently injured.

Yeah. So, man, pay do what's right. What do you make a year?

Um right now I'm making close to 70

where I'm uh located.

>> Good. Good for you. Okay. All right. So, um uh you call them up and say, "I need

to settle this debt. What will you accept?" And see what they say. And it whatever they tell you, write them a check for that. Okay? Then maybe maybe they'll take 50. They might. Okay? Um but uh and

here one of the things that we find as we've studied wealthy people is um not like I was told when I was growing up. Not by my parents, but by people in my neighborhood. They all said wealthy people are crooks, okay? And all the data that we have today tells us it's quite the opposite.

Quit doing crap under the table.

Cars with no titles.

And quit looking for a shortcut on everything. Just do the right thing, show up for work, work your butt off while you're at work, and people will notice because that alone is unusual.

And just become a man of extreme

integrity.

And that would be my prescription for you. If you want to call them and say, "All right, guys, I owe you this. I did this deal when I was 18.

I know you probably got 70 or 100 or whatever on it. What will you take? I'll write you a check today if you'll make me a deal." And you just, you know, and then just there probably they might say 50. 50 would actually be a good deal for them.

Um and then the next time you get ready to buy a car, be a grown-up.

Write a check for the car, buy a buy a a father of two car,

which a Hellcat would not be on the list. >> [laughter] >> Okay? And um you know, and pay cash for it and get a title and go get tags on it and be like a functioning part of society.

And then that leads you towards being able to grow and to function and to win.

Dave and I started working here, right?

All of this was new to me and I kept going to these meetings about the Delony

brand. And I remember after the third or fourth meeting, I kind of threw a little fit. I was like, "Guys, I don't want a brand. I don't like that idea.

I don't like that word. I don't want that." And Tim Newton, who does all of that here globally here at Ramsey's, is one of the most amazing minds I've ever been around. He said, "John, all a brand is is who you are when you're not in the room." What do people think about you? How do they feel about you?

And that changed changed me.

And I want Andrew, when he's not in the room there in Louisville, Kentucky, I want everyone to know oh, that guy is a man of integrity.

>> He's a stand-up guy. >> That guy, we can count on that guy. That guy's always >> dad. >> He's a great dad. He's always going to be a great dad. >> husband. >> Yes. He's a wonderful neighbor.

>> Yes. He serves. They just That's who that you are when you're not in the room because of how present [music] and generous you are when you are in the room. Be that guy.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Marie is in Phoenix. Hi Marie, how are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Thank you for having me on the show, Dave and John. Sure. What's up?

Um I'm wondering if you can settle a long debate between my boyfriend and I. Yes. >> Yes. [laughter] I love these.

Um we both own our separate homes, um and we have our separate home expenses, but he stays at my house about four nights a week, and our debate is like he should he contribute to rent or some household expenses, and he feels that he shouldn't. >> How how old are you two?

Uh I'm 62 and he's 51. Why are you not

married? No. Why? Um because we've both been married before and he doesn't want to get married.

Uh And he doesn't want to pay any expenses.

No. But he wants to sleep there. Yes. Yes,

he says believe he takes me out to dinner like once a week >> you Yeah, you missed the point, I guess.

Straight up. Yeah. I I know I I get it.

I get it. Yes. Yeah. Hm. Okay.

Hm.

Why are you settling for this?

Um because it works for me, I guess.

>> It doesn't. That's why you're calling.

Well, it's we've fought over it for years. Yeah.

You should stop that. >> Yeah. The fighting part. >> [laughter] >> You should just You should decide and end it. One of the you know I I um End the relationship or end

>> No, I'm just saying end the fight. There's There's a fight a fight I don't fight over something for years. I just either get in or I get out of the fight and I'm not going to I'll lose the fight or win the fight or something, but I'm not going to We're done. We're done talking about this. Years >> Yeah. Yeah. It's like you're all your pet hobbies >> dating?

About 6 years. Oh, good grief.

Okay, I'm um >> I Okay, so the the the truth is the way I answer questions on the show is I try to think about uh what what I would do if I were in your situation and I can't put myself there because I wouldn't be in your situation. I would get married if I were you guys or I would or I would move on. I'd break up with somebody who disrespects me so much. >> Yeah, that they you know, they want to sleep with me, but they don't want to marry me.

So, yeah. Um But But so I can't put my I'm having trouble honestly answering your question. I'm not trying to make a judgment on you. I'm just trying to say I can't put myself in your shoes.

I can't make that work. So, um Can I throw something in here, Dave?

the argument. Then you decide if you want him to sleep there or not. Okay. You have your house, he has his house. You could be over at his house or you could be at your house.

Um we are >> can't be at his house. Why?

Because he lives twice as far from our jobs. Um and I have dogs and he doesn't want dogs in his house and obviously I can't leave them here. >> Okay, that actually brings me closer to a question I had like I I think I'm right on something.

I think you're asking him to spend money on expenses.

That is your work around to more emotional connection with this guy.

What do you mean by that? I'm meaning I don't think this is about dollars and cents. I think this is about are you are are we doing this thing together or not?

And he's being very clear. We are not doing this together. >> I don't do dogs and I don't do marriage and I don't pay your expenses.

I take you out to >> There's a lot a lot of things he doesn't do. Yeah.

I Yeah, I I I think Dave, this is less about money and this is more about

I'm like he won't do my dogs, he won't marry me, he won't make a long-term commitment, so I'm going to go around this way and see if I can I can squeeze

some emotional connection by your participating in the bills, your participating in the rhythm of the house and >> Some sign of commitment. >> Some sign that we're doing this thing together and he's super clear. Behavior is language. We are not together. Yeah.

I sleep with you when I'm at your house, I get what I want, I then go to my and do my life by myself privately in my own way. Mhm. It's a huge huge I mean there's red flags all over >> with that arrangement and that's that's your decision. >> Be a grown-up and stop fighting about it.

Just say this is the way this is going to be and I'm accepting it and I'm going to move on. I'm not going to choose to be miserable or >> going to stay in this relationship, I think he wins the argument.

I agree. Yeah. I I think I think you have your expenses, he has his expenses and um I'm not going to charge him for a And then you get Yeah, you get to decide whether you want to continue in this expense arrangement. >> Yeah. Yeah.

That that's what's going on. I mean it's not it's you know, I don't I don't want to be that person. I don't I don't be any of these people, but yeah. All right. >> Natalie is in Boston. Hey Natalie, what's up?

Hi. I am just wondering if I should go

after my ex-husband's 401k.

For what?

Uh unpaid child support. He hasn't paid me in about 11 years. Um we've been divorced 11 years and >> you done something before now?

Uh he's it's a little complicated. He's been in and out of prison and uh

I don't know. I I guess I've I've tried to file with the state that I live in and they basically told me you can't squeeze money from a rock. There's been times he's been on the street and he's in there in and out of jail for domestic violence and drug charges and I think he

forgot that this exists because I think he would have cleaned it out if had he known. And

yeah, so that's where I'm at. This exists so you found it.

He had something sent in the mail and I

I opened it. Yes.

>> Mhm. Okay. And how much is in it?

About 60,000. Okay. And how much are you owed?

Over 100,000.

Okay. How How long's it been since you talked to your divorce attorney?

I didn't have one. I think he magically thought that if he didn't show up to court that we wouldn't get divorced. He didn't want the divorce so 11 years ago I just I did it myself and got granted a divorce and got sole custody and When's the last time you talked to him?

Last year. Every Every year he'll kind of call and be under the influence and

try to say he wants to see the kids or something but it's not really a Do you Do you need this money?

Um >> Or are you mad? Sort of I guess I'm just mad. I'm engaged to be married to a wonderful man in June. He doesn't want to wake the beast. He said he's left us left me alone for the past few years for the most part besides that occasional once a year call or so. I like him. Dave may disagree with me. I agree with your I agree with your fiance. >> agree with your fiance, too. You do?

>> Cuz I think you saw this number and you got really pissed off, rightfully so.

And you felt that you remembered a decade of grinding it out, three jobs, not seeing your kids. You remember all that came to the surface immediately.

Right. And you want to start this whole thing over and you you remember how hellacious the divorce was when he wasn't responding to anything. He just he was like, "Yeah, I dare the sheriff to come kick me out." He's a bad dude. >> He's not a good guy.

No, he's not a good guy. >> So, I um Yeah. And and lastly, I'll tell you this, I I don't know the answer to the legal question and you'd have to find someone that does know the answer, like an attorney. Uh if you wanted to ask someone, but as I understand it, a 401k cannot be touched by a lawsuit.

I know that part is true. I don't know if that is true on child support, if that allowed child support would violate that or not. And so, I'm not sure you can get to it anyway.

Right. >> You if you want to put that part to peace in your mind and go, "Well, I can't get it anyway." Then unless he voluntarily pulls it out and gives it to me, you can make his life miserable, like it it isn't already, until he made it till he pulled it out and gave it to you, but um Or you can take the cinder block that is him out of your backpack for good. Yeah, just just walk away. >> You got a good new guy that you're marrying with.

You're going to create a whole new life. Your kids are stable and healthy because of the the awesomeness of the last 10 years, the grinding and and and and just making it all work that you've done the last 10 years. Yep. Man, choose peace over this one.

That That'd be my opinion. You can go burn him to the ground, but you're going to get you're going to get burned, too. Yeah, it's the fire's hot.

don't think you can get the money anyway. I'm not sure. I don't know if you can get it or not in a 401k with child support, but if it was a regular lawsuit, I could tell you, you can't get it. It's not accessible.

It's accessible in a divorce. A divorce attorney or divorce lawyer, probate can make you split up a 401k in the process of a divorce.

So, they may be able to do it on child support, I don't know. But, I I think overall, you don't need it and you sure don't need him around. So, I'm with your I'm with your fiance and John.

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Don't be normal when you can live like no one else. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Evelyn is in Atlanta. Hi, Evelyn. How are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so I'm 24 years old and I've been

working since I've been 15. I haven't

built any real savings and I put all of my my expenses on a credit card. I have like $2,000 or $3,000 in

uh that I spend a month on my credit card and after I pay that off, I pay it off in full every month, but after I pay it off, I only have like $100 or $200 left. I I basically live paycheck to paycheck and I've been living like that ever since I started working and I do

I use the college savings that my parents uh had for me as a down payment for a duplex and I rent it out, but whenever

big repairs come up, I have to borrow money from them to pay it off, and I just want to stop doing that. I want to break the cycle and start saving money, stop using my credit card, and just breaking the bad habits of spending money like it's no tomorrow. So, you make about $3,000 a

month?

Uh I make like Yeah.

Like Yeah, 3,000 4,000.

Okay, [snorts] but you said you put 2,000 on the card.

I put as usually my Every time my my uh

It's usually like 3,000 around there on the credit card. Like I put all the money >> What do you do for a living?

Uh I work for the post office. Mhm. Okay.

Mhm. And what's the duplex worth?

Um it's I got it with uh equity, so I got it with 20K equity. It's worth 250 right now. And what do you owe on it?

Uh basically 2 230.

Mhm. Okay.

So, it's really not a big blessing. It's more of a curse.

Uh I would say uh I >> Yeah. It costs you money. It doesn't make you money.

Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. Yeah.

Sell it.

You think so? Well, I'm trying I'm willing to use that as like a retirement plan. >> a retirement plan. It's It's draining money. It's not adding money.

It sucks.

Money. >> get rental income from it. It's like >> costs you more than it makes you. Yeah.

Evelyn, the only way you can go forward here is to exhale and say, "What I've been doing is not working. I'll try something else." Mhm. Yeah. And what do you What do you guys like suggest? Like the truth is I understand I have a spending problem.

And like I I just >> you do. I think you have a systems problem. I think the system you're using to handle money sucks. So, what would be wrong with just cutting up your credit card and paying cash for things?

No, nothing honestly. I think I've just done it so long that I just I know, but just just let's try something new. This sucks. Mhm. You called me because it wasn't working. So, cut up your credit card, take your paycheck, turn it into money, pay cash for your groceries, Mhm. put some money in a checking account and use a debit card or whatever to pay your light bill, pay your landlord, I assume you're renting.

Uh no, I actually live with my parents.

>> Oh, okay.

Yeah. Okay. So, you don't have any overhead. You have $3,000 a month coming in. You got a car payment?

No, actually. I don't have any debt, actually. Other than the duplex.

Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, what if you cut up your credit card and just took your paycheck and used it to live on?

Yeah, I mean It's the same thing. It's the same thing you're doing.

>> [clears throat] >> Uh-huh.

No, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, use the jump

on in on the App Store and get the EveryDollar app and put it on your phone and say, "I got this much coming in. I have $3,200 coming in this month and I'm going to give every one of those dollars a name." If you want something different than you have now, you're going to have to do something different than you do now.

And right now, I'm listening to you and I've been coaching people with money for 35 years and your duplex idea is broken.

It sucks. It's taking money from you.

It's not adding money to you. And you're

living like a 12-year-old in terms of how you're handling money. You just spend it until it's gone and then you're not you have no emotional connection to it whatsoever.

I'm asking you to be an adult, step back and get over the top of the money and tell the money what to do before the month begins on the EveryDollar app, make every one of those dollars behave, and then go do that exact thing with that money, and you're going to be no worse off. You're actually going to be better off cuz you're going to be in control of it. And right now, you just spend until you run out.

And you're stuck at your parents' house at 24 years old.

And so, on top of that, on top of your post office job, I want you to go get a second job. You're 24, you're unattached, you're living at home. Go get a second job so you can start earning more money than just three or four grand a month, and you can sock that money away and begin to build yourself an emergency fund, begin to build yourself a financial cushion, so you can get your own place one day.

Yeah. And get your >> Right now is the time to work like crazy. Get your own life as soon as possible. As soon as possible.

Hannah is with us in Newark, New Jersey.

Hey Hannah, what's up?

>> [snorts] >> Hello Dave and John. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help?

My question is about charge-offs

and how long they stay on the credit report. Seven years from date of last activity.

Okay. All right. So, I have one in which it's recorded that

on my credit report, I paid it all I paid my last payment, not paid it off, but my last payment was in May of 2019,

and that's exactly the same month and year they closed it.

Okay. Closing it doesn't matter. The date the last date you paid on it or used it in any way, the last date there was any activity on the account, 7 years later, it will not be on your credit bureau report. Spoiler alert.

>> All right. Spoiler alert. That doesn't matter. They still will sue you.

Whether it's on your credit bureau report or not doesn't matter. They still It's still a legal debt.

Right. Dropping off your credit bureau report does not help you.

It only helps you go borrow more money.

Well, I'm not interested in borrowing any more money. >> I mean. That's why Dave says it doesn't matter.

But I just wondering but you but I would just wondering how long it takes to come off and you said 7 last years. 7 years from the date of last activity and they could choose to do a report on it and start the 7 years over because as at the in activity coming from them is also activity. So, what kind of debt is this?

Okay, well, it was credit card debt.

>> Okay, and and how much is it?

It's like 6,000 something.

>> And what do you make a year?

50,000. Okay, do you have any money at all?

No, not right now. Not right now. I'm trying to save up.

All right, after if it drops off in May and I don't think it will probably. It It usually they download the data on the credit bureaus once a quarter.

And so May would be the 7-year date and sometime in the following quarter it might drop off.

Okay? And if you called them and offered them $500 cash as settlement in full,

they might take it.

And that would clear up the debt.

It but it it wouldn't be paid in full, just settled. >> Settled in full and it'll be on your credit bureau as settled, a bad debt that was settled for 7 more years.

Doesn't keep you from doing anything, but it does keep you from getting another credit card hopefully for a while anyway.

But that'll get it actually out of your life to settle it with them. And super old credit card debt, they will settle for pennies on the dollar. Get it in writing and do not give them electronic access to your checking account if you're going to do that.

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[music] >> Corey is in Baltimore. Hi Corey, how are you? I'm well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so, I am currently trying to figure

out if it would be a good idea or if it's morally okay to um accept a position at a job knowing that I may be moving to another state or area

um as early as July and as late as December.

Okay, what what kind of a position are you talking about accepting?

So, I would be transferring from uh my current I work within a school um and I would be transferring to another building within the district uh but I don't want to take another I don't want to accept another position knowing that I may be gone you know, as early as July. I I heard that. What kind of a position are you talking about? You're asking me if it's morally acceptable to do this. What is it? I'm a social I'm a school social worker.

Okay, so if you take this, you're going to move from one school to another as a social worker.

Yes. Okay.

And so um well, a good a good way to test ethics is very simple.

Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. So, the supervisor and the principal at that school where you would be going if you were sitting in their seat how would you want Corey to handle this?

Uh I would want somebody who I is being forward with me and um you know

is being honest about the fact that it may happen or it may not happen if I move. >> what what is it what is it dependent upon? What what would cause the move to happen?

Uh accepting uh a job in in that area.

So, you're continuing to look for a different job while you took the new job but in a different state.

Yeah, we were looking to relocate in December. My my family and I. Yeah.

>> Oh. Does your wife have a job?

She Yeah, she does. In the new place?

No. So, we're both looking to relocate but that's kind of what is delaying us now cuz we haven't found anything in that area yet. I would take the job. The chances of this all working out on this timeline that you've imagined is slim and none right now. Neither one of you have a new job in the new place.

yet. >> Are you a finalist for a job in a new place?

No, it's just uh she's from that area so she we're wanting to move back down. So, right now it's just a discussion. Yeah, so where did you Where did you come up >> actually talked to anyone about being hired there yet. >> Yeah, where did you come up with July or or or December?

We We've um been applying places but we haven't gotten anything back but um

yeah, we we've been pretty active about it but haven't heard anything back.

Well, the answer to your question you answered the question yourself. The answer to your question is it morally acceptable to take the new job? The answer is yes, if you tell them I'm I think we might move, but I'm not sure yet. And I want to give you a heads-up on that before you give before you give me this position.

And then based on that, they have to make their decision as to whether they want you or not.

Mhm. In this school district, would that conversation cost you your job?

I don't think it would cost me my current job. What about the new one?

It could potentially cost me the new one. Okay, then stay where you are.

Is the new one more money or a promotion of any sort or is it just a different different location?

It would be a better work environment. Yeah, [clears throat] okay.

Well, I I I think you just have to be up front. I mean, that's how I would want to be treated if I was the principal at the new place. I don't want to go to the trouble of onboarding a guy, going through all the paperwork crap, everything else, knowing he's going to be gone in 6 months and he didn't tell me. Yeah. If you were going to work for a company I a hundred in an executive type role

I a hundred percent wouldn't hire you.

But if you're going to work for the local coffee shop as a barista well, they turn over like yesterday's underwear anyway.

So, it doesn't matter, right?

So, it depends on the environment that you're going into is high turnover situation. I mean, if you're going to work at Home Depot as a clerk, they're not expecting you to be there in 6 months anyway.

So, but here you're kind of making a commitment, so you need the people you're making a commitment to need to make their decision based on the actual knowledge of what's going on. Otherwise, yeah, you're misleading them and that is unethical. I agree with your I I think your conundrum. I think your heart was already telling you that, wasn't it?

Yeah. Yeah, and that's why you asked the question. You wouldn't ask the question if you didn't have conscience about it.

So But but I would also say like I'm trying to imagine I I worked in education for 20 years. If somebody came and sat down and said, "Hey, thank you so much for this opportunity. I want to be honest with you. My wife wants to move back to be around her family.

>> We haven't found anything. >> found anything. >> That might happen someday. It's going to take us both getting jobs.

It might be 6 months. It might be 6 years. But I just want to put that on the table that we do have a family vision of going back home one day. I I would say I'm going to I want you on my team for that level of integrity.

And I would take the gamble probably. It's not all going to work out in 6 months. Yeah. And so if if you're a great social worker, man, there's going to be schools lining up for you to come work for them.

So um that I yeah, I be honest, but also tell the whole story. >> let the chips fall where they fall. Yeah. You tell the story and then you can you can sleep at night.

You go, "Okay, they didn't want me because of that. I'll stay where I am." Fair. And so the price of me um the price of my integrity is I get to stay in this place that's let less less good environment. >> Sure.

While I look for a look for a new job in another state. >> That's right.

And that's always always always when you get to the end of your life a good thing that you did it.

Jayden is in Oklahoma. Hi Jayden, how are you?

Hi there. I'm very well. How about you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, well, I'm curious about if I'm being maybe a cheapskate about buying an

engagement ring. Yes.

75 [laughter] cents Dave & Buster's.

Turn the knob, brother. >> have to ask the question, you are. No, I'm kidding. I'm messing with you. So uh what are you thinking about spending?

Uh right now I'm I'm thinking about 4,000. >> Okay, and what do you make a month?

In a month, I make five. Okay.

That's okay with me. That's not cheap skating. I tell I tell people no more than a month's income.

The jewelry store tells you three months income, but they sell jewelry.

Kelly's producing the show right here. She just passed out.

You don't like that, Kelly? >> Okay. Um She wants about seven or eight months.

Wow. Okay. So, here's the thing. There is no direct correlation between the length and quality of the marriage to the expense of the ring.

As a matter of fact, there might even be an inverse correlation. That the more expensive the ring, the less likely you are to actually make it. Where is this cheapskate idea coming from? You or from her?

Or your buddies? >> It's It's more from her. She She's sent some some really beautiful rings, and they're more like the six, seven, eight kind of range, but we're both still in debt, and I'm could just trying to figure it out. All right.

Have you Have you had Okay. >> difference in four and six is not a deal breaker one way or the other. >> No. But, have you had that conversation with her?

Yeah.

>> sat down. No, the conversation underneath the conversation.

About, "Hey, we both owe a bunch of money, and I know you I would love to be able to buy you an eight, 10,000 ring. I don't have that kind of money. Do you Do you want me to save up and give you this like you Have you all had that conversation?" Maybe not in the way you're posing it. If you can have that conversation, it'll set you up to have a great marriage for the rest of your life. Yeah.

Because that's that's marriage right there. Being able to have the question that is actually the question beneath the the thing y'all are fighting about. >> Yeah. And here's the thing. It doesn't have to be forever, either. It's one ring. So, Sharon's is a uh her engagement ring is a point two three.

Means you can't even find it with a magnifying glass. It's so stinking small. >> about she bought low. Point >> She bought low. >> two three. >> She ROI'd that one, man. Yeah. Well, guess what? The thing she wears on her hand now is causing carpal tunnel syndrome. So, >> [laughter] >> um I only have one working hand now cuz I looked directly at it one time.

>> that you're bringing in Hollywood actors with. >> That's exactly right. >> But, yeah. But, the But yeah, we traded to .23 and it's in the safe. We kept it

for sentimental reasons, but not for value reasons. And and it's like it's worked for 44 years.

So, yeah, it Yeah, I think that the the conversation around it, Jade, is more than the cost.

Yes. Is more important than the actual cost in this situation. So, but somewhere around a month and four to six is somewhere around a month. You're right. If you told me 18,000, now we got a different problem. >> Now you're in Kellyville and that's a whole different level of drama.

>> oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Delony, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Ray is in San Jose, California.

Hi, Ray. How are you?

Hey, Dave. It's such an honor to talk to you. You, too. Um I have a question. Um

I am Well, a little backstory. I'm 36, newly married. I'm working on the debt snowball, trying to get my and my husband's new life in order. Um and I have a uncle who is 78 years old here in

California, who has asked me to be the executor of his will.

Um Um, that, he said he wants to bless me with his rental property in Arizona.

In that will, uh, it sounds great right off the bat, but I know you're the expert on, uh, real estate and I just while he's still here with us, um, is there anything that I should be prepared of? I I don't want to walk into a rude awakening um, when

he passes and, you know, if there's $8,000 left on the mortgage or any repairs or taxes and here I'm trying to clean up my life and I get stuck in a bear trap. >> Mhm, mhm. Okay.

All right. Does he own a lot of other assets as well?

Um, he has a, um, kind of like a elderly mobile home that he's leaving to a nephew of his and so I

kind of looked in the will and I said, you know, "Uncle, if there is a mortgage left, which is 8,000 as of today, uh, how would that be taken care of?" And he said, "Well, I would want you to use the money in my bank account." And I said, "Well, that's not in your will. So, um, the good news is we have a meeting with his, uh, estate planner in May. And so I kind [clears throat] of just wanted to call in this show and get my ducks in order to Okay. So, he's going to give you the property.

What was he going to do with the money in his checking account?

He, uh, with the mobile home was going to be the nephew. Oh, okay. So, the mobile home nephew would get the checking account and the mobile home.

The house in Arizona, does it have a mortgage?

It does. There's $8,000 as of today left

on it. >> the $8,000.

So, there's no money coming to you currently to pay off that mortgage.

Correct. From what he's saying is, "Oh, just use the use the money in my bank account." And I said, "Well, >> Well, then you'd have to leave me the money in your bank account.

Right. So, I'm like, "Let me call Dave and get my stuff in order So, the will needs to state that the cash, that $8,000 cash comes to you.

Other cash and and um any other cash above $8,000 and the mobile home go to the other nephew, your cousin, I take it.

And um then you have a paid for house that you're receiving. Do you have any idea what this house is worth?

Uh right now it looks like 300,000.

>> Okay. So, wonderful gift.

>> been to Arizona. Well, you're going to sell it. You're going to sell it right after he dies.

Correct. >> Yeah. And you're going to use it to have your life you and your new husband's life and you're going to pay off whatever debt you've got and or build wealth for you and your kids and your husband and you're going to go forward. We do not need a rental property in Arizona. So, an executor, if you look at the word executor, it has built into it the word execute.

Correct. >> So, your job, if you're the executor, is to execute what the will says. So, you're very wise to do what you're doing and make sure that you agree with what the will says and that Is there The only other question I've got is who's going to be pissed off that got nothing?

Uh he doesn't have a wife or any kids. It's just this um this nephew and myself that he says he could trust. Um What about your mom or dad, whoever's his brother?

Uh mom or dad, whoever He's a second uncle. So, um my dad My dad um

isn't left anything, so. Is Is that going to be a problem between you two?

Um let's be real, probably.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. >> Okay, then you all need to talk about that before he dies.

Yeah. He needs to He needs to tell your dad that I'm leaving this to your daughter and I'm leaving this to your nephew.

Correct. Correct. >> So, because I don't want you to inherit drama. Your job is not to execute drama.

Your job is to execute his wishes in the will. And sometimes people don't they they they piss people off after they die rather than while they're alive.

And so that's the that is the case here.

So I would I would make this to where it's a slam dunk. There's no question.

Nobody's mad. If you're going to be mad at somebody you need to be mad at at the uncle while he's alive.

Right. Yeah. Not you. You didn't do anything.

>> I appreciate that. Last question. So when this property comes in and sold and the it's paid off then the only thing that comes out of the sale is the taxes of Arizona or any repairs to get this property up-to-date so it can sell and

um the real estate agent gets their half and we call it a day. Yep. Like not their half but they get a commission. Yes. Yes. Okay. >> it a day and there's no there is no income tax on this if you inherit it at

death and sell it within 6 months.

Market value is the basis so you won't have any income tax.

Okay. I didn't know you reset the basis.

>> Yep. Stepped-up basis on death. Yeah. I did not know that. So she's not going to pay capital gains tax. >> gains tax on it at all. If she holds it for 5 years and it goes up to 600 grand Then high taxes on the 300 increase.

Excellent. I didn't know that. Okay. >> Yeah, if you sell it within 6 months it's proposed it's supposed that you

that you sold it for market value and at time of death.

>> [snorts] >> Dave, would you sell it right away or would you just >> Instantly. Okay. Deal. You don't want to be a landlord You you don't >> There's no point at you have $300,000 piled in the middle of your table with the kitchen table and you went and bought a rental house in Arizona.

In a state you've never been to. >> Yeah, that's not even a not even a possibility. So >> [laughter] >> you know that and that's reverse engineering which is called a sunk cost analysis and that tells you don't do it.

Don't keep it. Don't keep it. Don't keep it. Don't keep it. This is how why people keep a We moved from Atlanta to Chicago and kept our house as a rental.

That's a landlord by default.

And that always is a recipe for bad things to happen. Like someone changing their Harley oil in your living room.

Yeah. [laughter] That's That's when this kind of crap happens right there. That's exactly what happens.

>> [laughter] >> Bad idea. Bad idea. So, yeah, you're right. You're approaching this with a lot of wisdom.

You're You're the executor. You're going to have to execute and you've already realized that what's in the will and there wasn't money to pay off your house because the will didn't state what happened to the checking account money.

And so now you're having that reworked with the lawyer. That's [snorts] wise. I would also just ask your uncle to call your dad and say, "Hey, I don't want you to be mad at anybody. I'm leaving this to your daughter and you need to be happy for her." And your uncle can do that and it'll keep your dad from getting himself twisted. And if he wants to get twisted, he can do it now instead of at you later and you don't get into all kinds of drama over a tiny little estate of

an old trailer plus 300 grand. And but Dave, we've taken the call where she's going to get 300 grand from the sale of this house and dad's going to be knocking on the door saying, "Where's my cut?" Yeah, I want some. Yeah. That's That should have been mine. That should have been mine. After all I've done for you and all that stuff starts and stuff.

>> So, you got to go ahead and just nip it in the bud. Nip it. Nip it. Nip it in the bud. >> what you say, Dave. If If If you need to have a hard conversation about your will, have the courage to do it while you're still alive. Don't be a coward. Yeah.

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>> When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to

free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth.

And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the Every Dollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

>> [music]

>> The Ramsey show question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. Defaulted private student loans don't fix themselves, but you can fix them. Yrefi

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Today's question comes from Brittany in Rhode Island. Brittany writes, "My in-laws are very wealthy, but they did not save a single dollar for their kids' college expenses, and they will leave them a large inheritance when they pass away. They've told my husband and his siblings to expect to each receive close to $4 million after they pass away.

And my husband has over $40,000 in student loans.

Should I be happy that my husband will receive an inheritance later in life instead of help having help now?

Or is it okay to be annoyed that this debt could have been avoided if they had planned for their college differently?"

All right, here's what I want you to do, Brittany. I want you to go outside in the garage and open the car door in the garage and put your hand in it and just slam the door repeatedly.

Cuz that's about as useful as you spending 1 second of thought or energy

or feelings over this matter.

It just is what it is what it is. They made a decision that they wanted their kids to pay for their own college, and they get to do that. And cuz Dave, I guess she could be annoyed all she wants, but it's just a waste of time and energy and stories. You're about to be cut You're about You're going to get $4 million when they pass away.

Assuming you're still married. >> Yeah, exactly, [laughter] exactly. I I I don't know why anyone would spend a second of energy over this. His parents made a choice, and they clearly have done well for themselves financially. >> When you married your husband, you knew he had $40,000 in student loan debt.

And you knew his mom and dad. You just didn't know the numbers around it. Yeah.

Pay it off slowly. Just love them where they are.

They're your husband's parents, and they're not They don't do things the way you would do them. And uh welcome to in-laws. And um you know, you No, it's not okay to be annoyed. Mind your own business.

Yeah, my Yeah, that's good. Mind your business. Mind your own business. You can take care of you and your husband, and don't worry about what other people do.

You spend all your time being annoyed about what somebody else should What if I had $4 million? This is what I would do. Well, you don't have $4 million.

And you don't get to you don't get to make this choice. So, you make choices on based on what you want to do in your future.

And you don't know Britney that his parents didn't have three friends whose parents paid for their college and they watched their buddies do a bunch of drugs and and get kicked out of school and they told themselves from a place of value we want our kids to have skin in the game when they go to college and your husband chose to take out student loans instead of cash flowing it. And so, if you're going to be mad at somebody, be mad at him about it. But you don't know why they made the decisions they made.

And they're about to give you all $4 million. >> When they die. Relax. Yeah. Well, I don't even care if you get that or Choose joy, man.

>> Yeah, I'm just just this is work on um

controlling people that you can control which is you. >> And there's one of them.

>> [laughter] >> It's the one in your mirror. Yeah.

>> Yeah, and just move on. Oh my gosh.

No, I I I I think I think I think you got mother-in-law trouble and you're trying to get a get a logical reason why you're mad at your mother-in-law. >> I think she's got she's pissed off that they have to pay back this student loan.

>> pissed off at her mother-in-law in general and then this is gives her a reason to be. Yeah, I just that's no. Yeah, handle your business and get on with your life. Be grateful. Go, let it go. Frozen. Just let it go. Yeah. Dave's favorite movie and soundtrack.

>> [snorts and sighs] >> Glenn is in Anchorage, Alaska. Hey Glenn, what's up?

Hey, so I am self-employed uh and I have a variable income. So, I was wondering uh how many years I should stay self-employed if I uh notice with the economy that my income um is uh not enough to save for retirement.

Well, the variable's not a not not the problem. The problem is it's not enough.

Mhm. My income's variable, but I'm fine.

Yeah. So, the problem is not variable. The problem is you don't make enough, right?

Yes, uh I mean, you have a you have an occasional You have an occasional bonanza month, and then the rest of the months are just dry beans.

Mhm. And the total is still not enough to live on.

Uh it's enough to live on, but not to put away for retirement.

>> Well, that's living. You have to You have to plan for retirement, or you eat dog food.

So, I got to plan I got to plan for retirement. That's part of living. So, what do you make What do you You're You're self-employed, so you file your taxes. What is the profit of the business that you pay taxes on each year?

Um so, with currently with the assets that I've uh uh made >> Assets are not profit. What is the profit of the business that your tax

return would show me if I opened it up?

Um so, taxes are showing a negative, but

the like what goes in my banking account is So, last year was positive 13,000. The year before that >> Okay, the problem is you're living at the poverty level, sir. You need a job.

Okay. You're not making enough money to eat on. That's the thing. So, if your income taxes are showing negative, there's a reason. It's cuz you didn't make any money. And then what it amounts to is you got some depreciation or something that you're taking and that allows you to cash flow 13K, but overall

your assets are going down probably more than 13K, or you wouldn't be getting that depreciation. So, you're really not making a living. And if you can't see a way to triple that or quadruple that in the next 2 years, then you need to close this and go get a position where somebody will pay you 40, 50, 60,000 a year. You're going to feel rich.

If you got that happen if you made a below average income, you'd feel rich compared to what you're making now.

So, it's not the volatility, it's the lack of income overall.

And that's the thing you do. So, my friend Henry Cloud wrote a book called Necessary Endings. He said, "We end something, a job, a business, a relationship, a whatever, we end something when we lose hope that it's going to get better in the future." And so, if you're married to an alcoholic who you lose hope that they're actually going to get healed, that they're actually going to get dry and sober, you lose hope, then you have to end that relationship.

And cuz you can't continue to pour into the crazy world. In your case, you have to end this business because we've lost hope. For many years you've been doing this, and for many years you've been starving to death doing it. And unless you really can tell me there's a reason that I'm going to make 40,000 and not 13,000, or I'm going to make 50,000 and not 13,000, showing on my taxes that I

really made that in real money,

unless you see that, then you need to close this and get a job.

And I think you probably need to close it and get a job. That's what it sounds like. It's tough to do, though. Mark's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey Mark, what's up?

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking the time to take my call. Um I've got a little bit of a a question about uh income and and kind of providing for my family for the future.

Um long story short, my wife and I are

um missionaries who've come off the field, and we're transitioning back to the states. Um my wife is uh we have two kids, 14

and 12. My wife is um disabled, and

she's not really able to hold down a job consistently. Um but she's also, unfortunately, in a position where she doesn't qualify for disability. Um I just graduated from nursing school.

So, I did a 2-year program and I'll be starting a new job here.

And my my take-home pay every month is right around $4,000.

Um we're able to live because of the generosity of a local ministry here that provides housing to missionaries who are transitioning to and from the field. So, it's low-cost rent, basically. Um so, that we're able to kind of live.

As I look forward >> did you get an LPN and you pass your boards? Uh RN. It's a registered nurse.

>> Okay, so why are you making so little?

That's actually >> to a $95,000 a year job and you're making $48,000.

Uh well, it's about the highest offer I got, which is the highest the hospital system that pays the most, um is right about $70,000 a year. So, that's the take-home after >> To start, correct. Yeah, and I'm brand new. >> That's not $4,000 a month.

That's $7,000 a month before honest taxes.

What? What What I I only work 36 hours a

week. Um so, when you do the math, it's uh well, it's like $35 an hour >> [music] >> times 36 hours a week and then you factor in taxes, it's like $4,100 a month or something like that. >> Yeah, the great The great news is is you've entered a wonderful career and if you'll keep pushing and growing your career, you're going to go up in income dramatically. You could be making 150 within the next 3 years and in the meantime, you're going to end up renting for a little while and rebuilding your lives after the mission field, but you've got a good career field to win with.

[music]

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes, but here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way, they

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ramseysolutions.com/taxpro

to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> [music]

>> Your personal and professional growth can hinge on this one thing as much as anything else. The one [music] thing is communication skills.

And the good news is that's a skill you can develop. That's why I'm excited about this new book that I've done called top stop talking, start communicating. It's now available for pre-order and it's paired with the DISC assessment. So, it uses your results on the DISC assessment to help you adapt

your communication style so you can build trust and connection and influence. If you think about how how other people are thinking, it helps you communicate directly to them. I took this DISC 40-something years ago the first time. And I took it home.

I told Sharon I said, "Look at this thing. It's absolutely amazing." It tells She read it and she's like, "Yeah, that's what's wrong with you." And I went, "No, that is me." >> [laughter] >> So, and we use it here at the office after we hire when we're hiring people and we can walk up to someone's office and there's a DISC their DISC profiles on their wall right before you walk in so you know who you're talking to. So, pre-order today $34.99 and you get $30 worth of pre-order items which includes an extra assessment which is good for the spouse or friend and that kind of thing.

Stop talking, start communicating. Scott

is in Atlanta.

Hey Scott, how are you?

Great. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I see on my screen you're a Baby Steps Millionaire, man. What's your net worth?

Uh 4.3. Way to go, man. Give me a little breakdown on that.

How's that break out category-wise?

So, 2.7 is retirement, um which is

uh 401s, mutual funds, Roth.

Um 725 is the house, and then 918 in

other mutual funds and some common stock. Cool. How old are you?

66. 66. And how much of this 4.3 million

did you inherit?

Um my wife and I each got around $20,000

when our parents passed away.

Were you already millionaires when you got that? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right, cool.

So, you're not millionaires because of inheritance.

Uh uh uh uh Not even close. Yeah. So, what was your career?

I was a salesperson. Okay. What about your wife?

She's a dental hy- a retired dental hy- We're both retired, but she's a dental hygienist. >> Got you. Okay. You have a a 4-year degree?

I do. I have a and a master's. Okay, in what? Business?

Yeah, MBA. An MBA, okay. What was your GPA?

Well, in undergraduate, it was not stellar. I'll I'll admit to that. Um but in graduate school, it was 3.35. Okay, 3.35. All

right, cool. All right, so you're smart, but not a genius. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> No, you had fun when you were 19, like you're supposed to. Good for you. Good for you, man. Yeah. So, uh do you think that if uh so you're 66, you're my age, I'm 65.

If someone's out there that's 25 and they're listening, do you think they can still become a millionaire starting from nothing like you did today?

You bet. You know, it's it's pay yourself first, stay employed, stay invested.

Okay, cuz you got over half, about 60-something percent of

your net worth is in your retirement account.

Yes. >> You're worth $4 million. Your house is 725,000.

Mhm. Yeah, it's not not 7.2 million house. It's 725,000 house in Atlanta,

Georgia.

Well, I live in north Georgia, but yeah, in the south. I think I live in Yeah, so you have a nice home, but it is not a mansion.

No, and and that that when we built this house, we built during COVID.

Had no intentions of having that kind of house. It just it turned into it because of rampant building costs for that

2-year period when we were building.

Yeah, yeah. Okay, but the house is worth that now, isn't it?

It's worth seven and a quarter now, right? It is. Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> All right. Good. Good for you. Well done. Well done. Okay, so what advice would you have for your 25-year-old self? You should that live on stay stay employed and keep investing, I think I heard?

Mhm. Yeah, stay employed, pay yourself first.

Um get some term, you know, good term insurance.

What what do you drive? What do you drive?

Well, I just bought a brand new truck.

What did you buy? I bought a GMC Denali. Oh, that's nice.

Yeah, we got our wife or I we got a we got her a Honda Pilot. Okay, very good. Very cool.

All right, so a GMC Denali and a Honda Pilot. And you're worth $4 million.

Good. Not a Lamborghini.

No. No. No.

>> [laughter] >> I've got a real fan got a real fancy boat. It's a John boat. There you go.

It's my favorite kind of boat.

>> [laughter] >> All right. Hey Scott, let me ask you this. You've been a salesman Have you been a salesman your whole career?

More or less. I started it while I was in the in the army. You know, out of college I went in the army. Okay.

And made a whopping 12,000 a year Right.

at that time. You know, again that was >> What's the most you've ever made in your life in a year?

Uh family 200. Okay.

So when you're a a first starting out salesman, you've got real good months and real tough months. How did you have the discipline or what mindset did you have to keep investing during those times? Cuz that those would be times that I'd be tempted, especially when I'm younger trying to support a family, that I'm going to hold off. I got an up and down income. I'm going to hold off on the investing. Um I might put some in savings when I have a really good month, but you you started investing early.

Yeah, I was a I ran believe it or not um

as a young lieutenant um a Templeton

salesperson showed up at the at at the

at in my quarters and sold me some life insurance, some term life insurance that I'd never heard of, and a mutual fund.

And you know, and I was like, well, I don't plan I don't have any kids. I'm not married, but you know, if I am something happens and I'm in the military, I'll give my parents something. And that sort of started the whole process, you know, the the concept of monthly investments.

And you know, the over the 40 years it's been uh you know, I've been through a lot of we, Dave and I, have been through a lot of downturns in the market and you just don't panic. Stay in. Hm.

Absolutely. >> I love it, man. Congratulations. >> Congratulations, Scott. You're a baby steps millionaire, an icon. You give inspiration to everybody out there listening that this still can be done.

The great American dream is not dead.

Stay off of TikTok.

Yeah, and keep investing and keep employed. Keep investing and keep employed. I think he said that like four times. And then just keep working and keep investing and keep working and then you'll look up and you can do anything you want to do. Because you understand his income is off of these investments is $400,000 a year.

And his highest income he ever made was $200,000. And to all of the regular

people, not the TikTok people, the regular people listening, I want y'all to hear at 4. what? 4.2 4.2 4.3 million dollars,

a paid for house, retired, they went to buy their fancy car and his wife got a Honda Pilot. Right? Like it's like you said, it's not this fancy BMW. And those aren't bad or wrong or anything, but there is a sense of that's a family that has is at peace with where they are and what they are.

>> Yeah. >> something reliable and I'll guarantee you she got a Honda Pilot cuz it's grandma car. It's going to be yeah, it's going to be the car they drive for the rest of for the rest of their life. >> put the grandkids in it. A lot a lot of room. Yeah. One of those grandkids is going to take that car one day.

Probably. Probably. That Denali will be on the side of the road by the end of the weekend, but I'm just kidding. I just needed to make a GMC joke there. >> Yeah, it didn't work. No, it's a great joke. It's a great truck. Yeah.

So, folks, the bottom line, the reason we bring the baby steps millionaires on here all the time is because 89% of America's millionaires, that's nine out of 10, are millionaires not because of inheritance.

79% received zero.

5% received a small amount like five or $10,000. Another 5% received a substantial amount, but after they were already millionaires and in his case, in Scott's case, he received a small amount after he was already a millionaire. So, he did get an inheritance, but a 79% and 5% is 89. That's nine out

of 10 millionaires are not millionaires

because of inheritance. That's data.

And if you don't agree with that fact, you're what's known as wrong.

So, quit telling people that they can't do this. Compound interest >> [music] >> and self-discipline and living on less than you make and living on a budget and being in agreement with your spouse actually freaking works.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Philippians 4:19, "My God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus." Our friend Art Laffer says, "I never heard of a poor person spending himself into prosperity." Let alone, I've never heard of a poor person taxing himself into prosperity.

There we go. Christopher is with us in Seattle. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

I'm doing good. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Hey, so um my wife and I our total

household income is $201,000.

Um and I am going to be running for a

representative position in my district and it does come with a $34,000

pay cut since I would be quitting my job

of my my current career. And so,

financially, I know that we can do it.

We're nearing the end of baby step three. Um and my wife agreed that I should get involved locally in our political realm here. And um I'm just struggling

uh with the mindset of the fact that we are losing uh $34,000 and it feels like I'm in a way letting down uh myself and my family.

So, I'm just trying to figure out how to uh cope with that.

Mhm. Are you Are you running for a representative seat because you want to see change and you want to be that change and you're want to get involved in your local community?

Are you doing this to to uh just

cuz you hate working?

Uh no, I I absolutely love my job. Um but I do want to be a part of the change and to help motivate others and tell and let everybody know that it takes all of us to create this change. >> me Let me ask you. I'm sorry. I You're a representative of what level?

The state level?

Yes.

Okay. Most state representatives have a full-time job.

Oh, I was unaware of that.

Almost everyone if all the ones I know personally have full-time jobs.

I I don't they don't make much money and they have to.

Now, I don't know if that's true in the state of Washington or not.

Yeah. But um you might want to investigate that. I'm not sure that a state representative is a full-time job.

Okay. I could definitely do that research then. I'm not sure. I mean I know in our state, I know most of the representatives in in a lot of them in our state. I know a whole bunch of them in our immediate area certainly and all of them have jobs. They have to cuz they don't make much um at the at the state

level. >> Christopher, you said you does your wife make 170 and you make 35?

Uh [snorts] no. Um I make 101,000 and she makes uh 100,000 pretty much. Okay, so each of you make about 100 but you're going to drop down to 65 if you take this role.

Yes. Okay. All right.

So, I like the idea of bringing back just call me old-fashioned public service being a service. That's when I'm going to I I at net loss to myself, I'm going to be in service to my community and you've got your wife's supporting and backing and I I think >> You have 165,000 our household income.

Yeah, nobody nobody's starving. I think this is a noble thing. >> choice you made and nobody thrusted upon you. You don't have to do it.

So, there's no reason to have to cope with it emotionally.

Um if you if you if you was like if you got demoted and you lost and you went from 100 to 65, you might have to emotionally cope with that loss. >> Or if your wife was a stay-at-home wife with three kids and this is going to put y'all y'all couldn't pay your bills, then you'd have a hard decision to make. >> a $165,000 income net net, I don't know that there's anything to cope with. I would spend zero seconds coping and all of my energy on being the best public servant I could be.

And figuring out if this really is a full-time job. Yeah, that's the other thing. And I don't know what that means to your current career and those sorts of things. >> me let me say it this way.

If your identity is in a number you bring home versus value you provide to other people and in your relationships, you have an issue whether you're like you already have that issue. If your if your identity is I make as much money as my wife or I make this many dollars, I make this magic number called six figures and somehow that makes me better or able to like myself more, you're going to have bigger issues across the board, brother. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

Yeah, but I don't I don't think that's what's going on. It was more like it was cuz he's really reaching to do something here that >> awesome, yeah. >> Yeah, that that's um a noble call. Yeah, but if it clashes with this idea that I also have to make this much money or I'm not a good husband or a good man, I think that's Well, that's true.

>> Lean into the service, man.

Josh is in Nashville. Hey, Josh, how are you?

Hey, Dave, I'm doing great. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah, I was hoping you'd say that.

Um yeah, hey, I uh recently moved to Nashville area.

I'm from Southern California like so many people here that I've met. And um yeah, right when I moved here I was sort of caught off guard um by my business partner saying, "Hey, we should sell the business." And so something I wasn't really prepared for mentally or financially.

Um so that's something I'm kind of working through right now. Um In addition to that I'm also in the process of selling a bunch of our real estate. So most of our wealth right now is in real estate just to free up more cash.

And I'm I'm not sure I can do this, but I I'm trying to understand if I can create the option to be work optional based on our assets.

So, I'm just calling to see what >> will you get out of all the real estate and now the sale of the business? What's the big number?

Yeah, so the the business should net me about 1.5 and then the real estate another two and then I have So, 3.5 million.

Mhm, and then I have about 500 in a taxable brokerage and then one other

potential source of liquidity could be our house. We have about a $2.3 million house with a $700,000 note on it.

Um so, we could go downsize there as well.

Or you could just pay off the note, either one. All right, so you got like 3 million bucks to work with, give or take, depending on what we do with the house and the note. All right. Mhm. Uh or 4 million, you know, so uh um you know, if you invest that in good growth stock mutual funds, the S&P 500 has averaged 11.8% since it began.

Um that's the stock market average, in other words. And so, if you pulled off 10% off of $4 million, you'd have 400 grand.

If you pulled off 8%, you know, you'd have 320,000. What do you need to live?

Yeah. Yeah, right now not not a whole lot. Maybe about $10,000.

Uh not quite 10,000, maybe $8,000 a month. Okay. So, $120,000 a year.

Which is like mo- your money's still growing if it's invested in mutual funds and doing nothing but sitting there.

That's if you don't do anything else with business and you don't do anything else with real estate.

Yeah. Part of my question, I'm 44. Yeah. Well, you're going to need to do something.

Yeah. Yeah, I know I understand that.

>> It's not fun. Life's not fun. I mean, you're you're not going to have fun if you don't do something. You've been doing things your whole life. Now, do you have to be stressed out and desperate? No. But I mean, you're an entrepreneur, you've grown businesses, you've built wealth. Um it's going to take you about 13 seconds to be bored.

Um, yeah, I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, one of the one of the things that's kind of playing around in my head is am I employable? Like what

what could I look like to get a job?

I've never had a job since I was 24. I wouldn't.

>> Last thing I would do.

Uh, you know, I would just do consulting work for somebody if you you know, show somebody how to do what you know how to do, or I'd go build a business of some kind, buy some buy a business, start a business, um, or I'd buy some other real estate. But you need to put your hand to something. Um, uh, you know, otherwise you're just going to get fat and go fishing.

And that's not a good plan. And so you're you're you're not going to be you're not going to like yourself. So, I just you've been doing too much. Now again, you don't have to do 70 hours a week, 80 hours a week. Um, but you don't need to be a Walmart greeter, dude. I mean, that's not that's not the stage you're that's not who you are. And so, don't do that. Don't set yourself up for that. But yeah, that's fine. Yes, you are work optional, but in

terms of the actual arithmetic, but not your spirit. Spirit is not work optional.

I don't find retirement in the Bible.

No, I I I often tell folks who are older than you by a decade or two who are retiring, who are looking for I don't know what to do next, go spend two or three months at a local charity, just showing up every day and serving people.

And if you have the entrepreneurial mind

now that you've had for the last 15, 20 years, you will spin up 15,000 ideas on people you can help and people you can love and businesses that will work to support those folks. And so, that's what I would do. >> Yep. >> There's all kinds of things you can do. But you got to have a purpose. A business that wins is always serving.

Always. That puts us hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the [music] Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 150. Stop Letting Emotions Drive Your Money Decisions | April 30, 2026


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Normal is broke and common [music] sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. [music] From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey [music] Show. And I am Rachel Cruze hosting this

hour with Jade Warshaw and we are going to be answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225. [music]

The phone lines are open and we are ready to talk about your life and your money. So, we're going to start off with Scott in [music] Pensacola, Florida. Hi Scott, welcome to the show.

Hey, how you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Um, so I'm 20 I recently turned 21. I bought a house in December.

Uh, I got married in January and I got a kid on the way due in September. >> Whoa. Big big life event, Scott. Doing it all.

Oh, yeah.

Well, I got about oh, 27,500 on a vehicle loan that I'm 10,000 upside down on and I got

10,500 on personal loans.

Uh, 1,900 on a four-wheeler that I've sold and paid as much as I could off what I sold it for on to. What was that 1,900 on what?

Uh, four-wheeler. That's how much I got left. Okay. >> I sold the four-wheeler in January and paid what I sold it for on to the loan.

Got it.

And then I got about 2,000 in credit cards. Okay.

And I'm on step two of the program, but I want to get rid of the car, but I don't feel like it'd be a smart Well, I know it'd be smart to get rid of the car payment, but I don't have anything to replace it right now. >> And I ain't got 10,000 to pay the negative on it. Do you have any cash?

Anywhere? Uh I got I got a thousand. The thousand, okay, so you got the baby stuff on it.

>> Yeah. Um what about your wife? Does she have a a vehicle that's reliable?

That is the vehicle.

Okay, and then what do you drive?

>> so I kind of I guess I inherited her debt. I only have like 13,000 but her car on her personal loan.

And what do you drive?

Uh I got a an old truck that it's worth $4,000. Got it. >> got a company truck so I don't it just

Okay, so that 4,000 is sitting there, but you also have a company truck.

Yeah. Okay, so she could drive the old truck if you sell this car.

It needs a lot of work.

But that's not the question. Could she drive it if you got rid of this car?

>> for 6 months? >> Uh-huh. And you just do a little work on it, yeah? So then I would I would if I were in your shoes I'd go down to the credit union and I'd get a $10,000 loan. Uh cuz I'd rather you be paying off 10,000 than 27,000.

And then that way um when the buyer comes to buy this car from you for 27,000, you can put the other or for yeah, for 27,000, you can put the other 10 with it >> Mhm. and have the whole 37 that it's worth. Yeah, cuz you just dropped your debt you know, obviously by by significant I mean you'll have $23,000 of debt left after you do that.

Um and that's as much as what the car >> You know what I mean? The car loan itself is. Um so yeah, it makes a significant dent. It's going to be um it may be a little inconvenient at times, kind of annoying, but um but it gets you guys a whole lot closer to that goal of being debt free.

Yeah. Yeah, cuz then you've got the the you said the four-wheeler was 1,900?

That's how much I would have left on the loan. And then the 2,000 on the The cards, was there anything else?

Uh 2,000 in personal loan, I forgot that's in her name. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

And how much do you guys make a year, Scott? Uh I make about 80,000 before taxes. 80 before, okay. >> she makes probably 30.

And she makes 30. What does she What does she do?

Uh dental assistant. Okay. Yep. And she's pregnant, is that what you said?

Yes. When When is she due?

Uh September. Okay.

Um So, I would make that I would make that exchange of the car and then

we have something called stork mode, Scott, that when you are expecting a baby, um it's good to have a bigger emergency fund than just a thousand dollars cuz you know there's an event coming that could cost more.

Um So, there's a part of me that would say I would go ahead and do the truck. I would sell it, go ahead and get that taken care of and then from then on

between now and September, um which will fly, it'll be here before you know it.

Uh Okay. >> what, four months? So, I would stock pile cash in these next four months. I actually would not be paying down on the debt.

I would stay current on everything. Make sure But I would I would be intense like you are paying this off, right? Cuz you're on such a great rhythm. You've done baby step one, you're on baby step two.

Um but I would put that money aside just like in a high-yield savings account and just don't touch it and make sure she's good, baby's good, everyone's good. And then when she comes home, um I mean, if you could save eight grand even between now and then, right? I mean, 2,000 extra a month if you could put away.

right? Like you can start and you could knock off some stuff pretty quick in September. Uh which is awesome. And then you would just have the $10,000 loan from the credit union and then the other $10,000 personal loan. So, you have 20 grand and then you guys can be completely debt free by the end of 2027.

That's the goal, but Are you It feels It feels kind of far out of reach, but I don't It really ain't even that much. It's just It's overwhelming. Are you doing any extra work? Are you side hustling or anything like that?

Uh weekends, overtime. Okay. I Yeah, I'd pick up as much as that so that to Rachel's point, you can stock as much money up. And if I were you, I'd also look into insurance and find out at the very least you want to make sure that you've got your out-of-pocket maximums covered, right?

Those are the numbers I'd be looking at if I knew I was having a baby I'd want to have that covered for the family just to make sure that you have that.

I said insurance is covered. I have really good insurance. You do? There's no There's no deductible?

Uh $30 deductible.

For the whole year?

Well, I've never I've been to the hospital a couple times. I've never had a deductible. It's only been like a $30 copay. Okay, I want you to check into that.

Check into I want you to check two things. I want you to look at the the deductible and then I want you to look at the out-of-pocket max. And just call them up and ask them. Say, "My wife's having a baby.

I just want to know what's the deductible I'd have to meet before insurance kicks in for this baby." And same thing for the year, I want to know what's the max amount of money I'd have to pay out of pocket if for some reason there were complications or anything like that. And just get those numbers.

>> Yeah, I was going to say >> [laughter] >> he said I have good insurance, so it sounds like it.

Oh, Scott, that's great. Are you Are you both on the same page, you and your wife? Do you feel like you guys are kind of tracking financially?

>> We haven't got joint bank accounts yet and combined everything. I mean, we're really jointly on stuff Yeah.

together. We We haven't >> But you guys are both mindset of like let's save money, let's get out of debt, like we're going to turn this all around.

Yeah, we want to make a life for our kids that we didn't have. >> It's awesome. Scott, you're doing a great job. You're such a great You know, you're going to be a great dad.

You're a great husband. I mean, honestly, and let me just tell you these quick wins are It's going to help build confidence because it sounds like up until this point, until recently, you haven't been intentional and focused on your money. You know, you have personal loans here and there, credit card debt, car loan. You guys have just kind of been living normal.

And now, I mean, you're pretty grown-up. You know, you're a homeowner, you're married you got married. Like, I mean, all of this is happening. And I'm so thankful that you're starting this process now, Scott, at your age, honestly, um because if you guys do this, if you do the baby steps, you get out of baby step two, you save up an emergency fund, you guys start funding retirement, right?

All of this could be in the next uh 24 [music] months. Right. And you start this now and you stay that consistent pattern, you guys will retire multimillionaires. [music] Like, it will be so incredible the family tree that is changed because of you and your wife and what you guys [music] are deciding to start today.

So, keep at it. Call us back if you need us.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Next up, we [music] have Susan in Madison on the line. Hi, Susan.

Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

Um so, I am 33 years old on a single income with a razor-thin budget. Um I've

set up an EveryDollar budget and an envelope system. I've been through Financial Peace University twice. Um but, I keep falling into emotional spending and end up overspending pretty much every month. What would you recommend to someone who understands the plan but struggles to follow it consistently because of emotional or impulsive spending habits? And are there any like structured resources or programs to help with that emotional

side of it?

So, when you say emotional spending, can you give us a a quick uh example of exactly what that looks like? Is it, you know, you're going to Target and you're getting a bunch of tchotchkes you don't need? Is it you gamble on DraftKings? Like, tell us tell us what it is.

[laughter] Yeah, so like, for instance, I'm just going through some really intense family issues right now. So, um I don't know to feel better you like go out and have a personal day like to go to the movies or maybe go get my nails done um just to have like a self-care day, but because my [clears throat] budget is so thin I mean I I barely have enough money to go out and see a $10 movie. Yeah. Are you working on the baby steps specifically?

Like are you working towards getting out of debt or building up an emergency fund?

Yeah, so I have my emergency fund set up and I am working on baby step two. It kind of feels like I've been on baby step two for like 10 years. Oh, yeah.

Well, that's exhausting mentally if you don't feel like you're making progress.

That'll That'll eat away at you. So how much debt do you have left to pay off?

Um so I have a personal loan at about 10,000 um and then I have a credit card with about 3,000 on it. Okay. Um I am in a a

sticky situation which I know you guys never say to do. Uh my mom purchased my house and she's been my bank.

And um long story short we're we're selling it right now, so that mortgage

quote-unquote will be will be gone um and then it'll just be the um

the 10,000 loan and the the credit card with about 3,000 on it. >> Okay. Is there any equity?

Um there is, but unfortunately the house never got put into my name like it was supposed to, so I don't have any legal standing to anything on that house.

>> going to keep the money that you Have you been paying the mortgage?

I've been paying everything, yeah. And your mom's not going to give you a piece of the pie?

Um well, it I I I asked for it um and

I never really got a full answer and then through the grapevine of my sister it sounds like, "Oh, well, I'll put it in the account so I can see how you spend it. What? >> It's like yeah, kind of >> How much is the equity?

How much? >> It wouldn't be much. It would maybe be like 30 to 40,000 dollars something like >> That's much. That's much for someone who's in debt.

Uh yeah, it would it would clear my debt. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, it would more than clear your debt cuz didn't you just say you have 10,000?

Uh you only have 13,000, right? Unless there's more that we don't know about.

No, no, that's it. Yeah, had had she bought the house and it had and you have

not lived in it and then you've lived in it for a short period of time and paid it or like what's the story on the house? And I'm I'm getting somewhere with this. That's why I want to know.

Yeah, yeah, so the purpose was for me to get into this house to build some equity to kind of set myself up for financial freedom because I don't make a lot of money. Um I make about $50,000 a year.

Um and so that was the the point of me

moving in. Well, it was a little bit more than I could take on, I think, um

for how much I make. And so we never

really got a solid number down of how much I would pay her quote-unquote mortgage cuz she just paid in cash. She had money to to pay in cash.

>> Okay. Um so that number never got set and right now it's a really small number of $300, but I'm paying property taxes, insurance, everything else to upkeep with the house. Okay. That's a little different. >> So Yeah, yeah. >> $300 to your mother for how long?

Uh two and a half years, about two and a half years.

Okay. Yeah. Well, I'm wondering cuz here's the here's my thing, Susan, is any amount of money at this point is going to help you. I mean, you you just said I can't afford a $10 movie.

Like when you don't have that much like everything is important. So I almost would do the math and be like, okay, for 2 years, um this is what we've been paying, you know, it'll be like I don't know 15 between >> Yeah. Yeah, 12 and 15,000. Uh, here's the property tax.

Um, and let's say it's a say say she she cashes out at 30,000 and maybe for you,

you've put in 20 with everything said and done, okay? That means Mhm.

I could see a very reasonable conversation is, "Hey, Mom, the the house went up in value. I have helped support it. Not all the way, cuz to your point, you probably you were not paying market rate. She was giving you a great deal. Um, but to a point, I have been putting money into this that has caused, you know, that that the equity has gone up.

So, after realtor fees and everything is said and done, whatever is left, here's what I've put in. Could I at least get that part out in the equity and you keep the rest of the equity?" That would at least be a conversation I would have because $20,000 >> Mhm. you know, that that's pretty life-changing for you at this point.

>> Who put the down payment on the house? >> Yeah. Or there was none? >> Um, so there there wasn't really a down payment cuz um, her and her husband paid cash.

I mean, they're they're they have like an upwards of like $20 million. So, You know, I think I'm changing my stance on this because what it sounds like is you were just a renter at a really low rate. I don't think that you ever owned any part of this to really have access to any of the equity. I think that she bought the house, she bought it in cash, and she only charged you $300 rent in a in a full length home for 2 and 1/2 years.

I think I think that You're a renter.

>> Um, but back to the fact >> even if the big our our original like texts and emails and everything was, "This was going to be your house and the title was going to go into my name." >> was never anything that upheld that. If you were really doing that, you'd have to show that. You You I don't know. I wasn't there, but if you didn't kick anything into the down payment or kick anything to the initial purchase of the house, even if she bought cash, and if you did not even at least meet the a regular mortgage or do you see what I'm saying?

>> rent, the yeah, market value. Yeah, and there's nothing in writing here.

uh documenting the situation well for both of you. >> 100%. And for that reason, I I just let

it let it ride.

>> Yeah, that's probably fair, Jake. Okay, so my question would be why is she why why did this deal go south?

Uh so she basically wants to take the money now and do something else with it.

Okay. Is what it comes down to. So and

because I don't I don't have the law on my side, I just kind of have to now figure out what to do. Yeah, so you're going to take So you will have to pay rent and it's going to be more than 300.

Um so that will eat into your budget as well. What is your budget? What's your monthly take home?

Um it's about 2,600 a month after taxes. What's your What kind of work do you do?

Um I work for a healthcare organization.

I do like back end like admin stuff um for providers. Okay. Is there a way

$2,600 is slim, slim.

>> Well, and that doesn't feel like like like did you get a big tax refund?

No. Hm. I think like 400 bucks or so. >> any money going Is any Is any money going into 401k retirement?

Um I think so. Um I get like the

Wisconsin state pension. So it's just like an automatic thing that comes out.

Yeah, yeah. >> But nothing beyond that. Okay. Um so yeah, when with this equation, I mean I want to quickly hit what you talked about on on emotional spending before we get into this because that's a huge part of this.

You really don't have the money to You don't have the margin to emotional spend and we don't have enough margin to put towards this new life that's going to come where you're paying more than $300 of rent.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Most people don't struggle with money because they can't do math. They struggle because they don't stick to a plan. And when your bank makes your money feel confusing or hard to track, plans fall apart fast. And that's why I love Fairwinds Credit Union and their mobile app because let's face it, most banks build systems that make it easy to swipe and hard to stay organized.

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One of our favorite things to do is when people share their stories on how they're winning. We love to share it with you guys cuz there's people walking this journey just like you. And so we actually got a quote in about our EveryDollar app. It was a review and it said love this app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband which The

money >> marriage peace. Yes. Is so hard and so yes, doing a budget together when you're married is so helpful. When you have actually a tool that helps you do it, that's what we what we love and that's why we love EveryDollar. And she goes on. She says and we've implemented this practice since our wedding day and we've had zero money fights because there's full transparency and we're on the same page. So it's amazing. So amazing. And it does it it I

wouldn't say it's like you'll have no fights with your spouse about money by any means but it does limit >> That's right. >> and the questions you have especially if you're married. It's it's so it is it's so transparent and you're working together with with each other on it which is so so important. That's again why EveryDollar is awesome and you each can have like the login information so you're if you change something on one app, it changes on the other app on your on your spouse's app on their phone and all of it.

Like it it is awesome. We love it.

All right, let's go to Birmingham and we have Samantha on the line. Hi Samantha.

Hey Erin. Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Um I have a question. I wanted to know what I can do to help my husband stop financially helping his parents. Oh boy.

Ooh, we got a How long does your husband help his parents? Okay, so what's going on?

>> Yeah.

So, um, my husband is a contractor

and both him and his we

we have our small business and he, uh, makes good money, but

um his parents tend to kind of fall back where they need to whenever they know that he'll kind of just make up make up the back end. How like how much?

How much is he giving them every month?

A a lot of money, like $8,000 a month.

Holy smokes. Wait, your your husband is giving his parents $8,000

a month?

Just about. >> For how long? How long's that been going on? This has been going on for probably

3 months. 3 months. How much do y'all bring in a month, Samantha?

Um, we are 1099, so I don't really know how much we bring in a month. We filed $240,000 last year. Why don't you know how much comes in a month? Do you guys have a personal budget that you guys plan your household from? Or when you look at your checking account?

It varies.

Because one month he probably won't make $10,000 and then the next month he'll make $50,000.

Okay. >> Okay. Um So. Wow. Okay, so

um, I'm I I probably won't concentrate on this call just cuz from a time perspective on his parents' situation.

That's that's their thing. What who's

Yeah, really in the Well, to say in the wrong because he's not agreed with his wife on where their money's going is your husband. So, what are those conversations like? What happened? Did 3 months ago he said, "Hey, mom and dad are falling behind. Can we help?" And you're like, "Yep, absolutely." And he just keeps doing it?

Was it even talked about? Did he ask you? Like, what happened?

He asked me and I'm okay with helping them out. Sure. >> every so often, but my thing is when it's consistently an issue and you're consistently doing it and you don't they

they don't make up the edge. They don't have to work if they don't want to is my problem. Okay, so your problem >> spend all their money knowing that my husband's going to make up for it.

>> So, it's entitlement that you have an issue with. My question is you said it's okay one time.

Have you Has he continued to come back to you these other months and asked and you've just gone along with it or have you said no and he's done it anyway?

Oh, I've said no multiple times.

>> Okay. And $8,000 is a massive gap. Did something happen in their life? Did they lose Did Did one of them lose a job? Or what's happened in the last 3 months where they've needed this money? They They both work.

Well, what's hap- What's changed in 2026 cuz you weren't doing this in 2025. So, what changed 3 months ago? What What happened in February that caused them to call you?

I think it's the fact that um they just spend all their money.

Right, but did But what changed? Did you guys >> Nothing that I know of has happened. >> Okay, how long have you guys been married?

Um 8 years. And how long has the business been doing well?

Um probably about 2 years. Okay. Something either they got

wind of the fact that the business was doing well. Something changed that suddenly this has become kind of just like a a vending machine for them. But, the good news is uh to Rachel's point, that's neither here nor there. You get to stop this behavior.

And either something's going on with your parents that your husband is not letting you know that you're just unaware of, or it's just as simple as saying I don't want to do this anymore, and you setting up that boundary with your husband of saying, "I've said no to this. I've said no to this on multiple occasions. You've continued to do this anyway.

And I'm not going to I'm not going to have that, right? So, Right.

>> that conversation needs to happen immediately. Otherwise, it's going to be you guys against each other. >> [laughter] >> at this point, that's a marriage issue between you and your husband that he doesn't listen to you, that he doesn't respect what you're talking about, and that there's no It doesn't sound like there's a back and forth. Cuz I'm not saying every husband has to be like, "Okay, whatever." to his wife, "Do whatever you want." And same with the wife, that she doesn't need to look at her husband and be like, "Whatever you want." No.

There could be some back and forth here.

Um, and so, and the problem is that he needs to understand is that throwing money at a situation that isn't changing, to your point, is not helping them. It's not. Cuz it This will continue to be a pattern for the rest of their lives if they had anything to do with it, is what it sounds like.

It's one thing And again, I'm not against helping family, right? Like, if they had a medical issue where there was a job loss and you could financially fill in the gap and you wanted to, that's great. >> In fact, it's uh, um, How old are they?

Um, 50s, mid-50s.

>> Yeah, that's crazy. And they have jobs, you said. So, I I if I'm you, I'm sitting down with my husband tonight, and I'm saying, "Here's my >> See, is I say I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I stay with our children. >> Uh-huh. >> So, my husband is the only person that brings in the money in the >> Doesn't matter, Samantha. It's your household.

You're both married. You both are That's what I'm saying. I I don't >> that over you?

I'm trying No. No.

>> Okay, good. We uh have agreed, you know,

that we've done it too many times recently. But I feel like it's going to happen again whenever it and they're just going to keep on and keep on and keep on and ask me and I feel like it's just going to continue to go on >> But why won't he talk about it and said no? >> And that And that's my question. I wanted to know why when we uh pushed you on that, why you brought up the fact that you're a stay-at-home mom.

I want to understand that a little bit more. Do you feel like you don't have the right to say? Or do you feel like he has the right to make the choice?

Uh to He doesn't He He pretty much asked me cuz I pretty much Uh he includes me on everything except for this.

>> Okay. >> But and I don't feel like I don't want to say I'm not included.

Well, I feel like I'm not included. I'm It sounds like he tells you what he's going to do.

And that's the inclusion. >> my back.

He's been behind my back the last two times. Oh, he hasn't even told you when he's doing it. You just found out.

Right. >> You got to include it. So, you got a husband You can No, Samantha, you have a breakdown in your marriage of communication, of trust,

um of of any level of unity. And he's

done this. He just eroded trust, right?

>> [music] >> Um which in my opinion is even worse than being like, "I'm going to do this." And it's out in the open. It's the secrecy and it's the behind your back. So, Samantha, yeah, it it's This is a marriage issue at this point. And I would raise some red flags. And you may feel like, "Oh, it may not be that big of a deal. Gosh, am I being too Am I being too much?" No.

This is a big deal. It's a very big deal. He just spent $16,000 without you knowing. And so, [music] to me, that's the That's a communication and marriage breakdown and you guys may need to go pull in a therapist, a marriage therapist, [music] just to talk about not just the money portion again, but how we got here in our marriage that he didn't feel the ability to come to you and or he didn't and we need to tackle those issues.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, we have Sue in Grand Rapids up next. Hi Sue, welcome to the show.

Oh, thank you so much. I'm so excited.

Oh, I'm glad you called. I have a question. We are trying really hard. Our daughters in Grand Rapids, we're in Saginaw. And we're like 2 and 1/2 hours away and we wanted to move there and prices of homes are high everywhere but especially there. So, we've got our home on the

Ramsey plan. Our home is paid off, our cars are paid off. We just have our monthly expenses. My husband has us debt free in a miracle way because he's just now retired at 67.

I've been on disability since 2000. I'm sorry. I said amazing.

I know. He's he's amazing. Well, my dad when he passed away helped a little bit cuz we got a little inheritance but now we're looking we're going to buy there

God willing and sell here after we've

purchased over there. And we're not I mean you know what it's like when you don't know how much you're going to get for the one you're selling which I know

I'm 99.9% positive we're not going to get as much for this one as we are over there. If we took our house here over there, it would be about three times as much. Sure, sure. My I know. So, the question is we just got

out bid again last night. Financially

maybe not but they wanted us the other buyers were willing to skip the inspection. Mhm. And we did we

overbid what they were asking for but I'm sure these people did too and they were they had a cash offer. Yep, yep.

So, yeah. I mean if we sold ours right now and if we got what we want for it, you know, we'd be doing cash offer too.

>> What's the difference in the numbers?

What are you selling for for versus what you want to buy for?

Exactly. And it's yeah, we want to buy low and sell high in a perfect world.

>> us numbers. Tell us what you want to buy the Tell us the current property that you have, what you want to sell it for, and then what you think you want to buy for.

What we have now, I'm in a perfect world

on the perfect world we get it done.

But in a reasonable world we get 275.

Okay. Okay. Maybe 250, but I'm hoping for 275. >> Perfect. >> And the ones there we've been looking for, I mean obviously you want to go 250 and have more than for moving costs and things. But what we've been looking at

is between 260 and 320.

Mhm. And this one we were bidding like 20 Let's see.

The 290s, 300. We were bidding like 30,000

more than they were asking.

Was it the Was it there but there was a contingency on it, right? Contingent on the sale of your home? Or no? No. Okay. Oh, no, we can't even do that now because I mean we just can't. There's nothing available like that. So I think you just need some patience. I think you're frustrated. I think you have had your hopes up. You want to be close to the grandbabies and you guys are ready to pull the trigger.

You're ready to make the move. And one or two deals have slipped out under and you're just getting frustrated. So I would tell you just breathe. Have some patience. You are entering into a a good market. It's actually more of a buyer's market right now than a seller's. The fact you're getting outbid I know happens but it that that um is happening less and less of anything. Some houses are actually up for negotiation. Um and so and you know and we see um we have a real estate

dashboard that you could even kind of check out but um but it's great cuz it does show not only like the mortgage rates and everything happening but how many days on the market and all of it but there's there's something about um having the patience and this because if you don't and you feel a little desperate, you might do something which I'm glad you didn't something stupid of like wave the inspection, right? And then you go buy a house sight unseen almost and no inspection and you guys get into it and it becomes horrible. So, I really do believe the deal's going to come for you.

I really do. I think you guys have been wise with your money. You have showed patience in the past and what you guys have done to build up I mean paying off a home and everything.

Um go ahead and sell your home and go rent somewhere for a year over close to them. And just know it's short term and then and then actually take your time.

He said we're not going to move twice.

So, I get that. Yeah, okay. Well, then you guys just you just need to have a little bit of patience because you know what you want. There are houses I I'm sure for what you're looking for in that area. And actually that in the Midwest area the average list price is $309,300

right now. So, you you guys are yeah, right where you are which is perfect. So, there's there should be some great options and maybe it's a little bit of a different neighborhood than you were thinking originally or 10 minutes one way than what you wanted or I don't know, but Grand Rapids, I promise you there will be homes that you're going to be able to buy. But I would Do what?

So, May should be a better month you're thinking? Well, just from a real estate perspective things are moving more. They move more spring and summer real estate wise. Yeah, just overall. So, I would say keep your eyes open and so I would just say patience. I think you guys you're in a good spot. You're fine. Just stay within your budget. Offer what you can and if the deal doesn't happen then move on to the next. There's no perfect home.

Uh but you're you're fun though. I I appreciate you as such a >> [laughter] >> girl. So good. [gasps] All right, let's head to Heidi in Knoxville, Tennessee. Hi Heidi, welcome to the show.

Hey guys. Hope you're having a fun show today. Yes, we are. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Hey you. So I'm hoping you can help me settle a dispute between me and my 19-year-old son. Oh, we love a debate.

>> So we uh we had recently mentioned to him about possibly getting a credit card now that he's an adult.

And he's been a Ramsey listener for a while and he said, "No, I don't want any part of that." And so we started kind of having a fun spar back and forth. He's like, "Guys, you use a credit card, you should get rid of your credit card, too." Hilarious. >> Smart guy. Hilarious. I love it.

>> [laughter] >> So what do you want us to say?

You want us to tell him that you're right?

No. Okay, good.

>> me to call you guys because I was like, "Look, we pay it off every month. We have a budget that we follow. If there's not enough money for something, we don't spend it. I don't understand what the big deal is. And I've listened to the show for a couple weeks now trying to figure it out >> Mhm. and I must be missing something." Why do you need Why do you think you need one? Or why does he need one? Cuz you just advised him to get one.

I think it was mainly because I just thought, "Well, in case something happens, he doesn't have a lot of money.

We don't want to have to spot the money." What if he did save up an emergency fund?

Would you feel differently?

Yeah, if I knew he had that in place, that would be fine. I was more just confused why he thought that we shouldn't have one even though we don't use it per se as a credit card. Do you have an emergency fund?

Yes. How much? How many months of expenses?

Um we have 3 months of expenses in the emergency fund and then another

2 and 1/2 months just in our regular savings account. Excellent. So, so it's fair to say that if if emergencies came, you would have the money to cash flow it. Yes, that's true. So, I mean, yeah, so a

I mean, a credit card, honestly, Heidi, the way we look at it is not only is there data to back up that you end up spending um up to 13% more when you're using

someone else's money. And that's what you're doing, even though you quote-unquote pay it off every month. Um but subconsciously, you don't realize it, but you are spending more. If you were just spending your money how do you have with a debit card, I guarantee you you would be spending less.

So, not only that, but also what we find

over and over again is life happens, and when a credit card is your backup plan, you fall right into

the cycle that they suck you into of

of credit card debt. And people call in our show all the time and they got 10,000, 15,000 dollars in credit card debt. Well, we've been trying to pay it off, you know, we try to pay it off every month, but then this happened and this happened, we don't have enough money. And there they are at 23%, 26% interest

catching your slack of of not being diligent and saving up and actually you being your emergency funds. And so, um and I know you're you said you guys have one, which is great, but um but when it comes to just the credit card industry, they have done a great job marketing the idea that you need a credit card. But when you spend your own money and there's no bank in your life and you have complete autonomy over your life and your money, and there's no bill. You're not paying for the past anymore.

When you pay in the present and you use a debit card or cash, you move on with your life.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend Ramsey personality Jade Warshaw and yeah, we're hanging out taking your calls having a good time. So if you have a question, call us at 888-825-5225.

All right, let's go to Christie in Baltimore. Hi Christie, welcome to the show. Hi you're Hi Jade. How are you doing?

We're doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so we started a small business, my husband and I, about 1 year ago. And it is a faith-based business. I make candles. And obviously we are in the red. Um we filed our taxes for last year and we were in the red about $78,000.

>> Oh, wow. >> Um which are Yeah, which of course comes out of our, you know, income.

So, we've been having a little debate about whether we should, you know, part of this business that I wanted to start was, you know, to give back to God and to our church. So, even though we're in the red, I want to still give um money to our church out of

our revenue, not necessarily our profit.

Okay. Okay. So, and and by give money,

do you mean like a tithe for your family or you're you're doing this as a donation of what you make to go back to the church? Just that's part of your business model.

Right, as part of our business model because we do tithe to our church already on a weekly basis.

Um >> above that, but coming out of the business. Do you got Are you guys able to absorb losing $78,000?

Well, it's 7,000 to 8,000, not 78,000.

Oh my gosh, I thought you said 78,000 and I was about to say, "Christie, Christie, we got to re-examine [laughter] some stuff here." Oh my gosh.

>> Oh my gosh, that helps a little bit.

Okay, that helps a little bit. >> Yeah. Um well, can you Okay, then my question is um can you absorb I mean, let's say it's 10 Let's say you give the church 2,000. So, that means you're If you're already in the hole 8,000, that would cause you to be in the hole 10,000 at that point. Can y'all absorb $10,000 loss for a for a hobby that you love?

I think we can. Um And this is like another part of this piece. Um I want to quit my job, not for

the business, but to focus on our family and, you

know, be a stay-at-home mom. We have a 9-year-old.

Um, and really the only debt we have is our home. Okay. >> So, um, we, you know, we don't have any credit card debt. We own our cars. Our student loans are paid off. We I've been on Ramsey Solutions since like 2007 and I've had my husband do it.

>> Okay, how much how much do you do you make a year in the job you have now?

Okay, so my bring home is about 54,000.

So, we would be losing that. Mhm. And my husband's is like 95,000 bring home.

>> Okay, perfect. Have you guys done a budget on the 95,000 that if that is

your new household budget that you guys would be okay financially?

My husband has said that we will be.

Okay, have you looked at the numbers?

I have not. We're actually going to our financial planner today. Oh, great.

Okay, well, they they may be able to answer some questions too. Yeah, so I want you to be comfortable. I want you guys to do a mock budget and just say, okay, cuz there's two issues here. Candle business, candle ministry, we're going to call it cuz it's You lost money on that.

And then stay-at-home mom. Okay, so stay-at-home mom I would do a yeah, do a mock budget of what he brings home every month and and look at your realistic expenses and just say, yeah, we can totally do this. And you might be able to, Chris, you guys have no debt. Yeah.

You should be able to. Um, so I would yeah, I think so, too. >> Yeah, make sure you feel good about that. And then the the the giving on the candle business. It sounds like right now that's all the candle business does is take whatever money there is and and donate it. Right? Cuz there's no profit.

>> a large Well, a large bunch of our money actually goes to our 403Bs, our 401Ks, our IRAs, and our daughter's um, savings. So, we

save a lot. Um, and we he wants to pay our house off in like 9 years and we're already in it for six. Mhm. So, I think technically with our our cash, like that our our reserve, like we have our um our six months savings, and with our

daughters, like we could pay it off next year. So, but then that would leave us with like nothing, right? No debt, but no emergency fund either. And it's like starting from scratch, but with no debt and my husband working and me not. So, that's like just this whole thing, like what It's a lot of possibilities we have. Well, I wouldn't use your emergency funds to do this, cuz you need that in case of an emergency.

So, I would just I don't think anything's on fire in terms of you feeling like you have to go at light speed to pay off the mortgage, because you said Oh, you're welcome. >> [laughter] >> But Because he I I mean, I'm like, if I stopped working, we can do it in 15, right? It doesn't have to be done in nine. Like, we could still manage to make that work and still be ahead of the game. But he has this thing in his head.

I'm right in I'm right in the middle of you two. I like the idea of being very intentional about paying off the mortgage, and when I mean very intentional, I mean maybe not letting it go 15 years, because the hope is that you can do it, you know, in in 11. Yeah, nine to 11.

But at the same point, I would not go to the extent of saying we're going to drain all of our emergency funds and, you know, stop investing in the 401k and stop I would not do that, because that's a drastic take that none of us here would ever suggest you to do.

the candle making business produces it, right? Uh the ministry. Yeah, the ministry. >> [laughter] >> And so, but don't unplug those other things to make this happen because if if the the research you've done on the budget is true, you should be able to live on the 95,000, and that includes

doing the things that we've said. That includes you continuing to invest, continuing to put aside for college, and continuing to put extra on the mortgage.

If you can't do those three things, then that means we need to re-evaluate the budget and figure out where that money is, and if it's truly possible like we thought it was.

Right. Okay. And so, even with uh you

know, being in the red on the business, you think like we could still I mean, it might not look like $2,000, but even if it's like 500 or 1,000, I just want to give something, you know? >> I would give above on the income that you actually make. This is a hobby, Kristy. That's kind of how you have to look at it like like your husband plays golf and spends eight grand a year on golf.

Like that I mean, that that's kind of where it's at.

red just for your good heart. It mathematically doesn't really make sense, right? And and we're all about generosity and all of it, but God also gave us reason and logic that we have to plug into plug our brains into, and that's not wrong.

So, I if you guys want to be more generous on your actual income, income that you are making to your household, then absolutely, you guys can decide to do that. You may have to cut things in order to make that happen, but no, I think continuing to go in the red for something feels irresponsible to me. I agree with that. Okay.

But your heart is good. So, I want I want your heart I want that to still be um satisfied, right? The giving part of it is still beautiful and great.

Okay. Yep, that makes sense.

>> Yeah. And logic is um is a gift from God, too, you guys. Remember that. Like like sometimes we go generosity and we can go high emotion with all of it, which is good, too.

Um but also God's given us reason and logic, and that's a good thing to plug in. And so, from a logical perspective, as we do math, Yes.

>> that doesn't make that doesn't [music] make sense to continue to give. But, Christy, >> um yeah, and I hope you get to stay home, Christy. You guys have put yourself in a position where you get to make that decision, which is beautiful.

Like, that's what we're talking about, you guys, to get your money under control, so you have choices and options in life. And when you look up and you're like, "Hey, I want to be home for a season," you get to cuz you did the hard work of getting out of debt.

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>> [music]

>> Up next, we have Jessica [music] in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Hi, Jessica. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks for letting me on. Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Uh so, I have a fairly new business.

We've been open about 3 years and unfortunately had to get the big expense of replacing our entire roof. And then also had some other structural things along with that. Um the estimate that we

were originally given was about $75,000 for all of that, which we saved over time so as not to take out any more loans. Um we did in that time as they discovered more problems approved for an additional 14,000 on top of that. But

then we just received the final total and there was an additional 25,000 beyond all of that that they had done

without any documentation or consent.

Like they never mentioned to us that anything else was going to happen. And when I asked about it, they just said, "Well, little things added up over time." Jeez.

And I was like, "So, 25,000's not a little thing." Um and obviously with us not taking out a loan and doing this all out of cash, that is even harder to, you know, have

all that set aside. Um they did offer to reduce that total by about 10,000, which would remain or would it would leave us with a remaining 15,000 overage beyond all of

what we had approved.

So, my question is do we just take that deal and kind of count it as the cost of doing business, or should we push back a bit more and say, you know, "We didn't approve for this. You didn't ask our permission. And if you had asked, we wouldn't have given it because we don't have that money readily available." >> Is the work already done? also >> want to be a jerk.

The work's already done. They did beautiful work.

Yeah, no change orders or anything. I mean, they just like >> orders, nothing. No verbal discussion or

any of that either. >> bad. Yeah, very bad.

>> cuz they are very reputable. We chose them knowing that they were the most expensive because we had a lot of trust in them. And we really enjoyed all of our time until we got that final bill and they just don't have a great explanation other than things add up. And and when you looked at the itemized bill, you saw you saw the money go towards certain things that you know were implemented?

Basically, it all that overage all came

in some of the the extra structural work. Um and there wasn't like broken down, you know, this much for such and such materials of it. It was just for this portion of the work. That's where the overage was.

Um but the guy said he looked over it thoroughly and he doesn't think that there are any mistakes. And I don't think that it's a tr Like I don't think that they're scamming us or anything. >> Right. I think that they just truly >> communication and they went ahead and started making decisions on your behalf without you choosing to.

So So yeah, just got I don't know if there's much you can I don't think there's much you can do at this point. I I That's kind of what I was afraid of. I don't think so because the work is done and unless you're going to say and unless you're going to make them go through and like itemize that and push on it and have the ability to to speak into it from that viewpoint. Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

But at the same point, I hate to tell you that because Yeah. to spend an extra

25,000 over what you thought cuz you

said they're going to You said first they added 14,000 and then they added another 25, but then they refunded 10.

So you're 29 over what you thought.

Um no, so so um let's see but it was

basically 40,000 over the original estimate is where we ended up. Okay, and then but then they >> of that we did approve. That they actually talked to us and said, "Okay, this is the change we need to make." We did like in the back it had to be full thickness replaced. >> Okay. Um so they talked about that. We approved to go that extra 14,000 beyond

the 75. So you approved that.

>> bill yes, but then the final bill was 114,000.

And so that that means like 25,000 of

overage that we never talked about.

>> But then they came back and they said, "We'll give you 10 back." right?

Yes, they said um 10 back so that leaves us with about 15,000 of the overage that wasn't approved. But

I mean if we need to make it happen we can we can continue like we cut our salaries back to try to do all of this in cash and we can continue doing that.

I mean I can tell you I can and Rachel you're probably better suited for this but anytime I've done a project in my house it's always been a little bit more than Yeah, it's usually over budget over time. I mean that's like kind of the classic It's just always is and so we always plan for that and and maybe it I mean that's just the way it is. Now, that's like projects like renovations but typically if I'm having something serviced or replaced what they tell you it is usually is what it is.

>> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's we were just kind of shocked by Uh yeah and to the tune of 15 At this point I feel like they were fair enough to say, "Okay, you approved the 14." and then they said, "Oh, we're sorry. We comped the 10 back." There's part of me that I don't know if I would keep I mean you could push on it a little bit more but I just don't know how much you're going to get out of this. Yeah, I mean you could push and just say, "Hey, this is the amount we agreed upon.

We did not sign off on the change orders of No and and again they may have gotten in it in the structural stuff it's to your point.

And and you got a top-of-the-line company, and they if they and I you know, I know those kind of companies, and they will get they will have the best of the best of the best, and that's what you pay for. >> Yeah, that's right. >> And you get what you pay for in a good way, but you also sometimes could be overpaying for something that you probably could have gone maybe middle of the road and been just fine. You know what I mean?

Um but that's hard, so yeah, Jessica, I'm sorry.

>> Yes, and you have to be on that communication with them. So, yeah, Jessica, I wish you had a better answer for you, but oh, I'm sorry.

All right, let's go to Hunter and Suval's. Hi, Hunter, welcome to the show.

Yes, thank you for having me. Absolutely, how can we help?

Yes, so I am just starting the debt snowball, my wife and I, and I Sorry.

I bumped into a financial planner, didn't get his name or who he worked for, but he recommended that I amend my W-4 so that my Sorry, I'm out of breath.

Um What are you doing over there?

>> [laughter] >> I'm actually at work, and I'm trying to stay busy while waiting to come on the line, so Oh, no worries, no worries. So, they said to adjust adjust your W-4 taxes to what?

Um cuz currently I have maximum deductions taken out, and we do receive about a $6,000 a year tax return. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

That I should amend it so that it's a lot less, so I get more money weekly to put towards the debt snowball.

>> correct. I would agree with him, yes.

Okay. And I know the tax forms changed in 2020. Uh-huh. Um how do I go about

doing that? It's actually easier than ever. There's really there's literally a line item on there where you can change the amount of withholding. You can just write it in. And so, what you can do is

think about if not much has changed on your taxes, you can say, "Okay, what was my typical tax return tax refund?" And then you can go through and divide it by 12, and that's a really good way to get an estimate of what that is monthly. And and just adjust it up or

down. And the lines, I mean, I'd have to pull it up on on my computer, but the line item is literally on there for you to change it and put in the withholding that you'd like it to be. So, you can change it from what it was to what you'd now like it to be. >> I mean, you could get close to $600 back, Hunter, each a month, which is amazing.

>> And by the way, that's what we would tell anybody to do who's getting a large refund, especially if you're on Baby Step 2. That money, I mean, we say it on here all the time, Rachel, your income is your biggest wealth-building tool. You need your income, especially if you have the target of trying to pay off debt, if you're trying to save money quickly, as much money that you can have in your pocket at your disposal to throw at that target, gosh, yes, get your hands on that money. >> Yep.

So, we are with your financial advisor, Hunter. So, yep, go in and do that. And we actually have a great blog on ramseysolutions.com all about taxes and adjustments and withholdings, all of that to get this right. So, we'll put it in the show notes for all you guys watching on YouTube and listening on podcasts.

But yeah, Jade, that's one of our when you're starting Baby Step 2, when you're starting to pay off your debt, there's there's a couple of go-tos that we've learned over the years to check. Insurance, check your insurance rates, you could be spending more than you need to, so you can get some cash back. Be looking at your expenses and what you're spending every month, and one of them is is your taxes, you know? Put money back in your pocket, so it's not sitting over in Washington all year, and then you get an $8,000 check that you can use.

You could be using that to get ahead financially.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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>> [music] >> All right, let's head to Kansas City and John is on the line. Hi John, welcome to the show. Hi there, how are you? I had a I'm in a situation where last summer I received a

$175,000 just a lump sum. This summer

I'll be receiving another $183,500.

And then next year from January on to

the 12-month period, I'll get paid 130 grand over that 12-month period. So I was just curious, I've spent about 75 to 80 grand between

taxes and other expenses from that payment I got last summer.

So it's just I was I had two main questions and the first one was you know, how to invest some of the some of the money that I have right now. I already have about 40 grand in a 401k and and have money going into a Roth IRA

and a life insurance policy.

And the like I said, the the question I had was how could I invest that money and also would I be able to comfortably and conceivably afford a $50,000 vehicle?

Wow, and where's all this money coming from John? Is it work or is it a like a trust or something?

>> Athletics. Yeah, I'm in sports. Oh, wow.

So it'll keep coming. You'll keep earning like this?

Honestly, yeah, I should have mentioned that. It will go down. It won't it won't be as much. I won't be it will probably

level out to be anywhere from 70 to

100,000 per year on average after after

this pay after this this pay. Now, do you do anything else to earn money or it's just that?

I do not. You know, with the money I have or I'm receiving I thought about maybe a business or a house or just you know brainstorming things. >> Yeah. Okay, so I added up the numbers you gave and I if I math is correct I could be off but it's it's close to half a million 488,000.

How much of that went to taxes and like what's left of everything? Like I know you have a payment coming next year you said. Um. Yeah and so I've only received so far the 175,000 last year and I believe I believe I've spent about 75 to 80,000 between expenses and taxes.

>> Okay, so you have about 100 grand of that. Well, I should mention I have I put 40 grand into a 401k so that's not necessarily liquid. Okay, gotcha. And what about just your month-to-month expenses?

That's through the through these payments for right now and that's my monthly totals up to be about 2,000 to 2,500 and then the other

thing I wanted to mention was I do want to like give some to charity and you know tithe so that will be like about around 10% of all of this will will go towards charity. Okay. So what I then I'd probably I mean I would do this like any other budget. I would sit down and I would cuz you're getting this every single year so for this year you made 175,000 a year.

>> cuz you get hurt or something and that that you won't get the 183 next year or is it guaranteed? Um so that 183 and a half will be actually like the beginning of June this year and that's guaranteed.

Also the next payment Um the one in January the 130,000 across 12 months that I will start receiving in January is guaranteed and I could it it'll be up to discussion but I could potentially even start receiving more money next year. >> Okay. Um and then even after that will will likely it'll definitely start.

>> Gotcha cuz I the thing with payments and and I feel like this would be the same if someone is in sales right and they have a massive a $200,000 commission coming in not to get ahead of herself and making sure that you actually have them Now, don't spend the money before it comes, right? So, don't go out and and buy [clears throat] a bunch of stuff and then wait for that money to hit. So, you want to be cash flowing it well. So, when Jade said, yes, setting up like a a regular budget is exactly right.

So, you'll just know ahead of time, okay, in June, this big payment is coming in. So, I need to know what I want to do with this.

car. Yeah. Okay, so What about How are taxes being taken out? Are you responsible for that or are they doing that? Because I don't want you to get hit with a massive tax bill after spending all this. Yeah, cuz you you said you paid $75,000 in taxes already, right? Well, that was No, I didn't. I paid um I paid $20,000 up front in taxes

and then we we have a we filed for a tax extension this year. So, I just paid that up front, but I hired like a financial advisor and and he has a CPA that helps me with taxes and things like that. So, I I pretty much pay them to file my taxes.

Okay, so just overseeing that, making sure that's done properly. And then, yeah, I'd I'd go through and I'd budget it out and I'd try to make this feel a little bit more normal instead of feeling like I've got this, you know, windfall of money and I can just do a bunch of stuff with it. I'd take it and I'd say, okay, if I'm not going to get money for the next 12 months, what is that every month? Is it around 15 or 16,000?

And then, plan it out like a normal budget. Whatever your rent or mortgage is, whatever you're going to pay for, and then you can budget amounts every every month. I'm putting aside this much for my car or I'm putting this much aside for, you know, what what have you.

>> Yes. Does that make sense? I think you can I think you can afford the $50,000 car, but there's part of How long you

been earning like this? How long has this been going on?

This has been So, last summer was like the first big payment I received like that. And then like I said I'll get one in about four or five weeks and at the beginning of June here.

Um and then it will be and then like I said in the next in January I'll start receiving that but it'll kind of level out from there to like more of like a normal salary of like Okay.

So if you take the 50,000 out of the 183 then yeah, you're just taking uh the one 130 and you're budgeting your 12 months

based off of that and I would do it that way. Um there's part of me that would love How old are you?

24. There's part I'm I'm just going to say this and you don't have to do this. This is just me being your buddy.

There's part of me that I would take this money now and budget it that way and I would save up. I would teach myself to save up the 50,000 out of your budgeted money every single month and start exercising that muscle of delayed gratification because there's something to that at a young age and especially when you're receiving money in big clumps like this, resisting the urge to dump it all on big

purchases right away. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, I'm very like and that's one reason I'm calling is I'm pretty conscious about I don't really buy luxury items for myself. This is kind of like the first thing I've been prompted to like really buy like for myself so to speak that's like a luxury item.

Um but my question on that is like how would you go about um kind of saving on the on the money I'm receiving? Is there like a way that Are you talking about investing in stocks or like having a business or So we'll set you up with every dollar which is the budgeting tool that we use. It's more than just a budget and it's going to not only help you manage the money but it's going to teach you our way of thinking and our guided plan here at Ramsey which is the baby steps.

a couple of things really well but doing them in order and focusing on one at a time so you can actually achieve it. So you're person it doesn't sound like you have any debt, right?

So that jumps you automatically to we would call baby step three, which is making sure you always have In your case, I'd have 6 months of expenses. We say 3 to 6 months. That's just parked in a high-yield savings account. It's not invested. High-yield savings account, it's liquid if you need to get to it, but it's also set aside from your normal spending money. And then from there, you do baby step four, which is you're investing 15% of your gross. Which you've already started that, John, so well done. So, yep. Mhm.

Yep. >> And then, no more, no less at this point. And then, if you wanted to You're a young guy, you don't have children yet, so you can skip baby step five for now. But then, baby step six is if you have a house, you're thinking about paying off the house, or if you haven't, you can start putting a down payment for a house, that sort of thing.

And then after that, after you've paid off your house, then you can start investing more.

uh building wealth and making progress with your money. So, it sounds like you're doing a lot of those things. You just needed like the the tune-up of it.

>> Yep, that's right. >> Sure. Yep, so. >> Absolutely.

Um yeah, and then you had the giving aspect to throw in there, too. So, um and I think that that'll be in every dollar and and and I would tell you, John, that when you give out of this, I probably would recommend having two or three places you give to, cuz sometimes if it's one big donation, and especially if it's a smaller nonprofit or something, and you end up being the one propping them up for a while, because this is not money that's going to be continual throughout the rest of your life. You know what I mean?

Like just be wise about about the giving.

but yeah, I think you can do it all. I can keep that. So, you just said give give to a couple different companies, and what was the reason for that? >> because if you give this If you give

um 18, 20, 30,000 to one, that's a huge

windfall on them, and if they expect any level of that going forward, you don't want to be the largest donation, right?

So, just something to to about, cuz it's just going to be a lot of money at once. So, [music] um >> Okay, perfect. Yep. So, John, absolutely.

I think you can be giving, invest 15% of your income, >> [music] >> you can go enjoy some of it, um and I think you can afford that car if you want it, and then be thinking about real estate, too, um and putting a big down payment on a home.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Buying or selling your home is a big deal, and with all the clickbait headlines out there and conflicting data, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. And so, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So, last month, the average 15-year fixed-rate mortgage rate ticked up a bit to 5.56%, but it's still under 6% people, so we're happy about that. Now, if you are financially ready, a small rate increase like that should not hold you back.

So, go ahead and jump in the market if you are financially ready.

last month, which is pretty typical for the spring market. And with more homes available and more buyers entering the market, it's a great time to buy or sell. So, if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you when you buy or sell your home, and to do it with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market, or you can click the link in the show notes if you are listening on podcasts or watching on YouTube. All right, let's head to Is it Is it Iya in Buffalo?

Did I pronounce that correct? Yes, Aya. Aya. >> Aya, I'm sorry.

Yes, well, thank you for calling, Aya.

So, I have a question. I am about to run into about maybe $2 million a lump sum. But, I have bad money management. I give away my money. I spend my money. I am currently right now living in poverty. I am a nurse in um my

town. So, I have had tons of money. I go

and buy high-end cars. I've bought houses, sold houses, given houses away, diamonds, um I cashed out my 401k about a couple years ago. But, I don't really know what's going on.

I make really, really silly financial decisions. I've been chapter 7 bankrupt three times. So, I'm trying to 44. Okay, and you ready to

break that cycle? You know it exists.

>> [laughter] >> You identified it beautifully.

And I am extremely fearful. Like, when I get this money, do I like go and pay cash for another house?

Um like, do I finance the house? I just don't know what to do. And I don't want to fall into my old patterns.

Do you know, have you identified the source of what that's coming from? Have you identified what causes you to cuz it sounds like you're a bit of a rescuer. It sounds like you come to people's rescue.

Don't, you know, you're an It sounds like you're a bit of an enabler. Have you identified why that is?

Yes. >> And where that comes from?

I've always been into, you know, shopping and things. My grandmother was very wealthy. So, we shopped, we did well. My brother was murdered in 2013, [clears throat] and I started to pad my life emotionally

with materialistic things. Mhm. Mhm.

But, I couldn't fill the void.

>> Mhm. So, it just took me into overdrive.

So, like, we're talking about me waking up at 6:00 in the morning, and catching a flight to Texas just to eat, just to come back home that night. Like crazy things that you won't even you couldn't even think of. Have you figured out how to remedy that in a in a healthier way or how to kind of heal through that?

Well, I have a girlfriend now, so he's I I think I've healed it. I think I've I've not healed the homicide, but I've navigated through it. So, now I'm not

um as itchy to go and spend money. In addition to I'm hurt now, so all of this

great lifestyle went down the the the drain. I can't work right now because I'm hurt. But, this is where this this is where this $2 million is going to come from. >> How long are you How long are you unable to work? Like, what's the status of that? So, I've been out of work already for about 18 months.

Oh, man. And the $2 million did you get hurt on the job and you're getting a settlement? >> I did not get hurt on a job. I had a fall, but I am getting a settlement.

Okay. Okay.

>> almost $2 million.

So, I need to refund my 401k. I need to

buy another property. I need to buy a a car. Like, I need things to do, but I also want to open up a business. I want to open up a home care business. Let's pause. Let's pause. Let's pause cuz you're you're already starting to go back into that mindset, which is

the moment I have money, I got to spend it on something and that's not true. So, I want to open up the conversation with a really basic principle that we teach here and we it's so basic that we teach it to kids, which is when you have money, there's three things you do with it. You give some, you save some, and

you spend some and you have to do all three. And you have to do them in the correct proportions. And if you can walk away with that little piece and filter everything through that eye, that's going to help you um because you've got to save some, and that's the part that's missing from your equation. Um, so those three things, and

then the second part, which I'll call it the second part, but it's it's probably the most important thing that needs to underpin all of this, which is you've got to decide, and I don't know what your relationship with debt has been, but you've got to decide, no matter what, I don't borrow money.

>> Mhm. Okay. At all. At ever. I'm done.

>> for business, not for other people, not for cards. We don't borrow money. I

yeah, say it. I don't borrow money.

>> [laughter] >> I don't borrow money. Ever. Keep that Keep that so close to your heart. Keep that so close to your heart, okay? >> Yeah. Because this $2 million can change This will change your life. This will set you up for a life with without

financial stress that you've been in.

You know what I mean? In these cycles. And so, um, so we'll tell you kind of what we would do, but first I would also say, so so Jade's big big point, did you hear? Give, save, spend, no debt.

I'm going to tell you I You need to find someone, I don't know if it's someone a good friend, a family member, someone in your church, but someone who is good with money. Someone who has built some wealth slowly

over time, and you look at them, and they're the kind of person that you're like, I trust them. How they live their life, and the way they view money, but they've done well.

I need I want them in my life. And I'm not kidding, before you make any big purchase, I want you to call that person before you do anything. Did anybody come to mind? Did anyone come to mind when she said that? Yes, two people. Okay.

Yes. And they need to know everything. I I would see I'm serious, the deep I hate the word accountability, cuz it feels so like I'm going to tell you yes or no. I don't It's like a friend. >> a good a true friend who can be your financial friend, who's going to know all the numbers. That you need someone in your life that is with you in this.

And not because you're not capable of doing it your own. I think you can build that muscle and you can, but for anyone out there who's single and doing this stuff, and especially if you're coming into $2 million and you're so self-aware enough to know like I'm not great at this, have someone who's good to to to bounce ideas off of, okay? So Okay.

those are important. Now, what are we going to do with this $2 million? Let's talk real quick. What is your car situation? You threw out about a about a car. What are you currently driving and do you have debt on it?

I'm not driving anything at the moment.

I can't drive. I have um You can't drive? I'm have to have surgery, so I can't drive. Oh, because of your health. Okay. How soon How soon do you think it'll be until a car becomes part of your life again and driving becomes part of your life again? Maybe about eight or nine months. Maybe about eight months. >> Okay. So, let's just hold off on that.

What about other debt? Do you have debt that needs to be paid off? Do you have any debt? >> Absolutely. Yeah, I have a car debt.

Tell us all of it.

Probably about a $25,000 Navy Federal credit cards that I need to pay off. Um you know, just Capital Ones, Discover, but everything is high limit. 20,000, 10,000, 30,000. Everything is high limit

and everything was maxed out. Okay, so how many if you had to calculate how much debt you have in credit cards, what's the total?

Right now, about $73,000.

>> Okay. Okay. So, we're going to cut those up tonight, Iea, okay? We're done with credit cards, okay? Because Iea is a person that doesn't borrow money.

I do not borrow money. That's right. So, that means no credit cards. Cut them up.

Get your debit card out. That's what you're going to spend money on. It's all on your debit card. No more credit cards. They've been horrible to you. You see what it's done?

Yes, they Not a blessing. Not a blessing, okay? So

What about the 401k? Was it a 401k loan or did you just take the early withdrawal? Like what did you do? No, I did a early withdrawal. I had I went into like a little health issue then, so I was able to cash it out. Not too many penalties, um and I lived off of it for a little while. >> Okay, so that's not debt.

>> but after that, I had my accident. So, now I've been out ever since. Tell Tell us more debt. Is there more besides the 73,000?

Uh no. 73 should >> housing situation?

I live somewhere where I don't love, so I'm absolutely not happy. >> Do you own a home? >> No. You're renting. You're renting. Okay. We're going to take some of this money and we're going to buy a modest modest not a $2 million

not a $2 million home a modest home to

get us started in an area that we like, okay? >> [music] >> So, those would be some big purchases, but you need to go over those numbers with a friend. Please have someone in your life that's walking through [music] this with you and cut up the credit cards tonight. Let that be one of the post in the ground for you.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we are taking your questions. All right, let's go to Maria in Lafayette. Hi Maria, welcome to the

show.

Hi. Hi, welcome. How can we help today?

So, I'm calling because I inherited a

decent amount of property from my great

grandmother. Her son, my grandfather, passed in 2014, so it went to me, my two siblings, my uncle, and my biological father. Oh, wow. So, it's split between five people?

Yeah. Okay.

is I am everybody's telling me I need to

take this to court and fight for

ownership over certain people's pieces because some people intentionally damage the property to lower its property value to try to make it easier to buy me out.

Some people have stolen from the estate in a total that's up to like $80,000. So everybody's like you need to take them to court and get their portions that way you'll own most of it. What's it all worth? >> it sells you can get a fair price. Well, here's the thing they got it appraised and with all the damage they did to the home it appraised for $40,000 but it's a

brick home in good condition on 20 acres of property with a tractor shed, a pond,

lot two livestock barns, all fenced in field and a >> All that together is worth 40,000? and a

bridge going over it. Are you saying all that together or just the home on the property is worth 40,000?

>> They they want all of that for 40 grand.

Who's they?

Uh my uncle that is currently living in

the home. >> No, no, no. I'm saying market value like if you appraise if you took it to a buyer >> got it appraised. The house with the three acres that immediately around it is 40,000 because they damaged the home so much and they're they all smoke meth.

Oh boy. >> house needs to be gutted because those vapors fill in the walls.

>> Oh yeah, you're in a that's a not a not a good not a good spot. So And they're

also very aggressive towards me because their mother when she passed she left me everything because she'd been no contact with them because of drugs, theft, everything else. So I got everything from her so they're already very aggressive towards >> at you for sure. How much does this matter to you? This $40,000 shack meth

shack. Mhm.

You know honestly for real Me and my husband are in medical debt so I'm trying to wonder if it's worth it to fight to get a fair price to try to get us out of debt so we can move on with our lives. >> How much debt did you say?

>> Um in total without our mortgage, we're about

with my student loans All of it and all of it except the house is what I want to know.

All of it except the house, it's probably like 36,000.

>> Okay, and how much do you guys make a year?

We make uh right about 120k a year.

Okay. And how much you said that his mom left you everything. Has she passed away? Have you Did you get an inheritance then, too, or not yet? She's just going to leave you. She's She passed. She didn't leave me any money, but she left me farmland that's in a 90 So in Louisiana's a 99-year lease, I inherited that lease. So it's still valid with the people who are with it, which is fine because that's just past due.

>> Okay, got you. Okay, got you. Okay.

Um so >> where they're at right now, none of them are paying the taxes, so I'm having to pay all the taxes on everything so I don't get liens against me. And since they're living in it, it's a whole legal process to evict them to even try to sell on the market. And they don't want to do that. It's like I'm I have to make a poor decision either way.

It's just a hard decision. I'm just trying to decide what how hard it should be. >> What's the process if you say if you said to a judge, I want no parts of this? And and I Take me off.

What needs to Have you Have you checked into that?

I have. And to just walk away from it for $0, I could just sign it over to them. >> Yeah. And I And I almost would. Well, Maria, listen, if it's 40,000 cuz I bet the house, you're right, they're going to have to gut it or or it's going to be done. I mean, yeah. Um But it's also another 20 acres of land.

>> is that worth? Have you Have you appraised that?

The 20 acres that it's on Yeah. like I

was told by the appraiser cuz she didn't do an official appraising of that, but she said for all of the property it'd be close to $120,000 just cuz of location and everything not including the house. Okay.

And there's um So, each of you when it's all said and done it it just in a perfect world if everyone sold sold it and you guys cashed out five ways, you each would get around 30 grand ish. Yes.

>> Okay. Um so, the question is what from a

>> [sighs and gasps] >> from a And they they don't have the money to buy you out. They don't have 30 grand.

Yes. No. No. And And are they the ones Are they the ones >> 2014.

The other four, are they all kind of

off the rails, all four of them?

Yeah, like the uncle stays on drugs and

yes. >> Who's the executor of the Hey, who's the Who's the executor?

>> [snorts] >> The executor uh was a family friend who

as soon as this was done and like everything So, the succession is done, he wants nothing to do >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

He won't even answer cuz he was like all of y'all are nuts and I'm not dealing with it. >> Okay, so [laughter] that that answers my question, which is you're in this with a bunch of just like derelicts, right? And

Yeah. You have to decide how much like there's there's mental energy and just

um there's a lot of personal toll, emotional toll of this that you have to decide if you want to even engage in it.

if you went the litigation route, how much will attorneys be and all of that that will cut into your 30 gra- You're right. It may like Yes. So, you guys just think through from a from exactly what Jade's saying, from a mental investment standpoint and emotional and a financial at the very end of it all what what's worth it? Um And I wish a judge could step in and

have you gone that route at all? Have you Have you looked into any legal proceedings like Oh, yeah. I sat down with a lawyer and talked spoke with a judge that she knows and my options are sign over and walk away and then send them all the notice to say hey, you owe me $700 in property taxes cuz in this

state when you owe property taxes, one person gets a notice and they're expected to inform the other people.

Okay. So, you could do that or >> So, I didn't get a loan. What was option B? >> I could walk away They said I could walk away and just try to get what I spent in property taxes since I covered all their share back. Okay. What's option B?

>> B I can file what's called I forget exactly what it's called but it's basically a motion where you have to make a choice. Buy me out or we sell and this is done. Yes.

I I may go that route. Just do that.

>> Just do that. Yeah. Push forward on that one and just see what happens. That one is expensive because they How expensive?

argue it and it would be Well, they They have no money. They can't argue it. They can't hire lawyers.

They don't have any money. >> They can argue with you personally but they can't do anything legally.

How much does it cost to do that right quick?

Um I was told to be prepared to drop at

least 5,000 outright and then if they

argue it, possibly more from there.

Okay. Well, do you Yeah, if you have five grand available, which you guys are in debt, you may not. I don't know. It

I don't know, Jade. Part of me would just walk away. >> I might walk away.

I don't know when to hold them and when to fold them.

And when to walk away.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Today's Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If you've lost control of your private student paint [music] student loan payments, your financial progress has stalled out.

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Okay, today's question comes from Natalie in Georgia. She says, "I'm currently on baby step six and earn over 100,000 per year. I invest 10% of my

income in a Roth IRA.

My monthly expenses are around 6,500.

I live with my partner in a home that he owns, and we have no plans to get married. I pay him $2,500 a month, which

is significantly less than what I would pay living on my own. We keep all of our finances completely separate. I don't want to buy a home, so what would you recommend I do instead to continue building wealth and long-term security?

I want to make sure I'm following the spirit of the baby steps while also being realistic about my uh situation.

Okay, so just to recap, she makes a good income, she's investing for herself, her money is separate from the the living boyfriend, but it's his house. Mhm. So, Rachel, there's a lot to unpack here.

I'm first going to answer this question based on her Yeah.

>> way of living, okay? Which is, if I were

you, you're not married to this guy, this is his house, your money's totally separate, then yes, I would just keep investing and building wealth, and if there is no Essentially, you'd be on baby step seven, so you'd be investing well beyond 15% and continuing to build your wealth for yourself without his

input or name attached to any of it, right? >> Right. Absolutely. >> Um And yes. Yep, I would do that, and then I probably, I don't know, I just thought of this as you were talking, Jade.

My fear is because there because you're not married, there's no legal tie-in, right? Like even um even if your name obviously wasn't on the home, but you guys were married and you split, it's seen as a marital property. Like so, you would get some level of equity.

You're getting nothing right now. And and if he decides to walk away in 4 months, you don't From a housing perspective, you've built nothing on that side of the equation. So, >> Unless you made some sort of a document that you both sign and make some sort of a agreement that could hold up in court.

Yeah, that if they break up, she they have to sell the home, and like yeah, there could be that, right? Cuz I think there is There are documents for that.

>> on the state. So, I would honestly I would my only Yeah, you're doing good with everything else. My fear is the housing element of this for you. So either Yes, you need a formal That's right. A formal document that will hold up in court to say if this long-term

relationship What do they call it? It's mar- It's a There's a term for it. I'm blanking.

That if Yeah, if we if we separate, if we break up still like what we've been building together actually can be seen as a common law marriage type thing. Um that's a possibility and or if that's not going to work in your state specifically in Georgia, then maybe on the side you're just putting the money away and it earmarked for the future and earmarked as a possible down payment on a home if you guys break up so you can get you can be in a good position from a real estate perspective long-term. Yeah.

>> So that would be the only thing I'm concerned about in this and the biggest risk you have is from a real estate perspective that you're just paying rent, you're building no kind of equity Absolutely. uh in in your life.

>> It's called a cohabitation agreement and and that's what you can do, but the bigger part of this and this is worth saying, but home ownership is such a big part of wealth building and if you don't have that cohabitation agreement, then your portion of that wealth building effort goes away. And then if I were her, I would be looking for other ways to diversify my investing to be able to cash it if you needed it. Yeah, absolutely.

But now let's talk about this from a from a Jade and Rachel perspective, which I think we should. And this is not anything on judgment. This is just You called the show Yeah, this show and we're the host. I question the commitment that's really here because if Sam Warshaw, that's my husband, if Sam Warshaw said to me, "I love you, Jade. You are the love of my life. However, I'm never going to marry you. I don't want to marry you. And furthermore, I don't want my finances to even touch your finances.

That That gives me cause for pause. I'm just going to say. And it it causes me to go down in into shutdown mode. And more so, I have many questions. Why? You don't trust me? Is there something about me? Did I do something? Is there something about you? >> Right? That's right. That's right.

Absolutely. I know.

And that's part of the world today, Jade, that I'm like I just kind of like do this. What's the dog where they like turn to the side a little bit?

>> Um yeah, because uh and not that everyone has to like get married and have kids by any stretch of the imagination. But when you are choosing to basically be married without the commitment, that's where I'm like, "What's going on?" Yeah, it just begs the question.

>> that? Yes. Um so, yep. I'm with you,

Jade. I think that's I think that's fair. That's our That's the That's the friends talking. >> Yeah, friends talking. We were having a glass of wine. That's probably where we'd be like, "Gosh, Natalie, What's up with Jared?

Jared kind of sucks. Why Why doesn't Why doesn't he want to get married to you? What's going on?" Jared. Oh, all right.

What a guy. Let's go to Memphis and we have uh Brittany on the line. Hi, Brittany. Welcome to the show.

Hey guys. Thanks for having me on.

Absolutely. How can we help? So So, my my question um I'm 47 years old

and uh about six two two months ago, six

weeks ago, I bought a new car. And then

um recently have decided I wanted to start my debt snowball.

And now I'm like, "Well, what do I do

with the car?" >> [laughter] >> Yes. Okay, how much How much is it? How much did you borrow on?

Um 90. 90,000?

I almost spit my coffee out. She almost choked. Oh my gosh. All right. Yeah. How

much do you make a year?

Um I make about 150. I bring home about 9,500 a month. How much is the car payment?

1,300.

Girlfriend, let me tell you.

Oh gosh. >> Okay. I'm shook.

Have you looked at at all

selling it? Like what could you get?

It's a 2-month you'll have some depreciation for sure.

But if you turned around and did it >> Yeah, plus I was upside down. Oh, got

it. That's part of it, too.

>> it was only about by like $5,000 and I did put money down. How much could you get out of it or Um you mean this car now, how much would I end up probably owing after selling it? >> Yes, yep.

So I would probably I'm going to say I haven't looked really in-depth, but I'm saying probably 15 to 20,000. Upside down?

Yes. >> Okay, the Wow. Um I would still get out of it because to your point, if you're walking the baby steps now and you realize this is too much car for you, which it is, and obviously it's on debt.

Um I would definitely make that transaction. I just wonder though, do you have any cash laying around to put towards this?

Well, I have about um 15,000 in the bank. >> Okay, good. What other debt do you have?

I have $46,000 in student loans and that's it. I don't have any credit card debt. >> Okay, perfect. Did you say 4,600 or 46,000?

46,000. Okay, just making sure.

>> the first one. I wish it was the first one. Well, you make good That's what I was laughing about cuz I wish it was. Yeah, you make good money. You have 15,000 in the bank, which is awesome.

So what I would do, yeah, I would throw a lot of that cash to, which is going to hurt. You're still going to take out a small loan. But I mean, I would you know, I would look at um Yeah, but I mean, 5,000 maybe If you do a private sale, you might hit it right on the head. Yeah, you might. Yeah, you may have to take out maybe a $10,000 a from a credit union to get you like a six, seven thousand dollar car and a little bit of the difference.

Um but yes, I would because you'd have ten thousand and you have to pay off. Um and I think you could you could pay off ten grand if you put two, three grand at

it a month. You could get this paid off in three to four months. That and you'd be done. >> after bills and everything, I have about forty-five hundred dollars left over every month.

>> Beautiful. Okay, good Britney. Yes, okay, so that's great. That So that's what I would do.

I would get out of this cuz that thirteen hundred even over the course of gosh, a couple of months has eaten into it. So I would as quickly as you can sell this car, take a loan out for the difference, and a little bit more to get you around in a five, six thousand dollar car. Um yeah, and then And then you're paying six thousand a month on student loans. Yes, and then you're knocking it out.

So well done Britney. I'm sorry about the ninety thousand, but you [music] can get rid of it.

>> [music]

[music]

>> When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, ninety percent of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan. They're not living on a budget.

They have no idea where their money's going. Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you.

And that's why I want you to go download our Every Dollar Budget app. Every Dollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life. It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

We wish we could get to every call on the show cuz we always leave the show with a couple people still on the board that we haven't been able to get to. So, if you have a money question though and you're like, "Listen, I might not want to call the show." Don't worry because we have a place for you to go. Go to our website and use Ask Ramsey. So, Ask

Ramsey is our free AI tool and it's been built and trained is what they call it but but you throw everything in this thing and it shows over the past couple years all of our books, articles, everything in this. And you can ask it very specific detailed questions and it

will give you an answer as if you had called the show. It will be a Ramsey-approved answer and what to do and it's fantastic.

I just saw some numbers in a meeting this morning about it and it's like going crazy. It's great. >> Nice. It's so great because we want y'all to figure out what to do with your money and if you need help, it's there for you. So, go to ramseysolutions.com

or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube and check out Ask Ramsey.

All right, let's go to Corey in Atlanta.

Hi Corey, welcome to the show.

Well, thanks so much for having me.

Absolutely, how can we help?

So, I am debating on buying a new house.

My dilemma is I am almost in baby step

seven. That's the goal I've been working towards for a long time.

And I'm a little scared to take out a larger mortgage when this one's almost gone. Oh man, how much more of a mortgage would you be taking out?

So, we are down to 27,000 left on our

current house and the new one the new mortgage would probably be 350 to 375.

>> Oh gosh, yeah.

And how much is your current house worth?

About 550. Okay. So, you'd be looking at like an 800,000-ish 900,000 dollar

home. >> Yeah, 850 875 range. Yeah, what's the motivation to move? Is it just size or is it different area of where you guys are in the city?

Yeah, the primary motivation is to be closer to work. For last 23 years I've

worked about an hour from where I live.

And the move would cut probably 25

minutes off of it conservatively. Yeah, wow, yeah. How much do you make a year?

Um we make about 300,000. Okay. And how old are you guys?

Um we're 43.

Yeah, I mean if you um I mean it you know, if it's in the parameters like this is just like the safest way. If it's in the parameters of what we talk about when it comes to mortgages that the payment's no more than 25% of your take home pay you do it

in you know, 15-year fixed rates

and all of it it's still it would still be a green light from a Ramsey perspective. It's so funny. I feel like this is one part like the second >> the home upgrade yeah. Like like if George was sitting in here, I think he'd be more good with it. Dave is still like I'll never tell you to borrow money.

Even if we're on one but I but yeah and I think that you guys have enough of the motivation because you've been doing this that I think you would pay this off pretty quickly four to five years. I think you guys could get aggressive and say you know what? We're going to get rid of this. I don't think you're going to like having a mortgage.

I think you've made so much progress on the home now that if you got into it you'd pull a John Delony. John always talks about this. He's like he like I could not sleep until this mortgage was paid off cuz they had a they got a you know a small one when they came to Nashville.

>> Uh-huh. And I would say the same thing.

If you hear any pause from me, it's only because you had pause. You're like, "Oh, we're so close." And I can I feel that for you. Like I feel the feeling of like almost starting back over a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But if it's in your value system, then it's totally cool. >> And quality of life, all of that comes into play. And again, you're not being you're not being unreasonable or irresponsible. >> at all.

Yeah, every day when I'm driving home and I drive by the location where the house would be and I see the GPS say 25 minutes to home, I'm like, I just want to move. I want to be at home. I'm like, oh, this is all this money is going to be flying out the window. It's the best thing.

It's fun. It's just I've been debating this for a year. We finally found a house that I actually like. Okay.

>> It's everything that we want. So, now it's like, all right, is the rubber meets the road or are we doing this or not? >> Yep. Yep.

Yep.

It's nerve-wracking. Yeah. What it What are you If you had to give yourself like a percentage, like what are your percentages? Are you like 80% I really want to do this house and it's just 30% you know, it's just 20% that says no?

Or are you like 50/50? Where do you think you >> thing with this one that we really liked, it was very low cuz we we've looked at like 50 houses and I've looked at how expensive they are and I'm like, I would never move for this amount of money. And then we found this house and that was finally the first one that was like, oh, maybe I could I would move for this house, you know. Yeah.

Um I would say it's it's really like 50/50 right now.

She She's more fine than I am because

the move will not change her commute at all. So, she's like, "If you really want to do it, we'll do it. If you want to stay, we'll stay." She's very supportive either way. Okay. How long have you been in the job for?

>> [clears throat] >> Uh 20 years. Oh, okay. So, you'll probably be there for a little bit longer. >> Mhm. Continue. >> Yes, I am.

Continue there. Yeah. Um

Yeah, I'd be okay with it. And again, I think you guys are going to be motivated to get rid of this. Make it hurt, too.

And so, I mean, if you just said, "What if we threw 100 grand at this?" You'd be done in 3 years, which is insane on an $800,000 house. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you're >> You could get stupid on it, yeah. For sure. >> you you guys could could really do it.

Not that you have to be that intense, but I'm just saying, your natural motivator, Corey, I think will be more intense than the average person because you've kind of tasted this like level of freedom that you're getting right there. It's right there. Mhm.

But from the quality perspective of getting almost 40 minutes back each way,

>> It's a lot of time.

>> That's a lot of time that you get back.

That's And I will I will say it's worth calling out. Like, there's few things that are like Trump money, and time is one of them. >> Yes. Yes.

Absolutely, yeah. And I have a young daughter, too. So, Yeah.

don't have too many years left with her. I'd like to get those years with as much quality time as possible. For sure.

Yeah, we'll take your Sounds like you guys have The fact you've looked at 50 houses Mhm. makes me think that you guys have emotionally been there faster than what is reality is catching up to. Um so, yeah, if it's a house you love and it's within the price range, yep, I would say go for it. >> All right, let's go to Joshua in Illinois. Hi, welcome to the show.

Uh hi. Thanks for taking my call. Um uh

yeah, so, I have a my fiance, love of my life, and we're going to be getting married at the end of the year, and she has about $60,000 in debt between

student loan, credit card, and uh you know, car loans >> and myself I have the money that I can

just pay it off once we are you know, officially married, but I'm just more want to know that would be better for us to kind of like work it through like together as if it was the baby steps and

kind of be a first thing in our marriage first me just kind of paying it off. I mean I definitely would want to have that conversation of what is our philosophy

going to be >> around money. That's what I was going to say. Is she is she committed to living a debt-free life cuz you don't want to go and pay everything off and then she goes right back in her old habits and you guys are on separate pages.

Yeah, no, she's doing the great doing the baby steps has the every dollar like app and right now in her in her current like situation she works in ministry and doesn't make much money, but once we are married, she'll be moving in like with me and then like looking for other like work that will like like she has like a master's degree in counseling. So like once she she'll be doing that work and her pay will significantly increase her When do you get married?

What was that sorry? When do you get married?

In October of this year.

And how much of the debt does she have?

How much debt will she bring in in?

Um with what she's paying off now I mean it won't it it won't make a huge dent probably still like you know, 55 like 60,000. Okay, and how much money do you have cash-wise that you're bringing into the marriage?

Um so between my like investments and

other accounts about 300,000.

>> Okay, is that is some of that 300 tied up in retirement IRAs or 401ks?

Yeah, about 150 of it is in like 401k

and Roth and then the other one's in like a TOD brokerage account. Okay, great. [clears throat] Yeah, well, the um yeah, the path to get become wealthy the fastest is being out of debt, staying out of debt, saving and investing and the faster you guys can get on that plan together, I'm a green light. I just want to make sure your values are aligned and it sounds like they are.

So, I don't really yeah, no red flag for me >> [music] >> on it especially if you're both wanting to tackle get out of debt.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 145:8. [music] The Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.

Clara Booth Luce said, "Money can't buy

happiness, but [music] it can make you awfully comfortable while you're being miserable." Okay, Clara. That's that's exactly what I'm talking about. I agree.

I agree. And [laughter] I once I I remember we we had this big discussion before we we moved. We built a home and moved in in 2019.

>> Mhm. And I remember I had so many nights in our old kitchen and so I was like, "I just can't wait to I can't wait to be in our new house." You know, cuz the drawers would all hit. You know, it was like this like this and then like we had two babies at the time and food was all on the floor. I'm cleaning up the food and Winston was like, "Babe, you know that like this exact situation is just going to be put in a different kitchen." Like there's so much food on the floor and all that and I was The craziness continues.

>> like, "I know, but at least I'll have pretty cabinets." Like what >> [laughter] >> good are they to look at? I feel you. It doesn't change you. You go with you.

You go with you.

>> the cabinets a little bit [laughter] more in the middle of the mess.

Oh, man. All right, let's go to Maril in Asheville. Hi, Maril. Welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for taking my call.

Um I have a pretty straightforward question. I have an old 401k that my uh

one of my first employers created for me straight out of high school and when I went to college it just kind of sat dormant and ended up closing and now I can't contribute to it anymore, but we're going through some different financial struggles. I'm now a stay-at-home mom, so I'm not contributing the same way. I do I do work part-time, but it's not I'm definitely not contributing as much as I used to be and um we have a Roth IRA which we could

roll the 401 401k over into

or there's also the option of closing it, I guess, and using the money for we have some major car repairs that just came up. Um So yeah, I'm just kind of curious what your thoughts are on what to do with the 401k or just leave it alone. It has a very good rate of return right now and it has been increasing. I just can't help it increase.

Yeah, so I would roll it over just to a traditional IRA. You can just open that up. If you roll it over into the Roth, the tax implication will be there, so you have to watch out for that. And no, and I would not cash it out early because you'll be hit with penalties Um >> Yeah.

and all of it.

for anyone because you want to be able to have somewhat control over what's going on and it's not just sitting in the old plan of an old company that you were working at. Yeah, and and the reason behind not obviously not cashing it in is it's still retirement money.

So, if you take it out early, you're going to be hit with the the penalties on that and the taxes obviously on that as well. So, direct rollover. Yep. Great

question, yep, that's one that a lot of people do have. And and if you had the money to pay the taxes and you wanted to convert it to Roth, you could, but not but >> That's usually a baby step seven deal though, right? >> Yeah, and I was going to say and you probably don't have that considering you said we have car repairs and all of it. So, so that's yeah. Thanks for calling, Myra. Let's go to Rebecca in Orlando.

Hi, Rebecca. Welcome to the show.

Hi, yes, I appreciate you taking my call and for any assistance. So, I have had

some recent vet bills. I now need to get a biopsy for my cat that's going to cost $2,521.16.

I've not had a working vehicle since December, so I started saving then and I've put aside $4,877.42,

but with my other monthly bills and per the rate that I'm earning per hour, I'm afraid I'm going to have to dip into my car savings to pay for this medical expense for my cat. And you know, I do

need a working vehicle, so I'm trying to strategically and intelligently navigate

how to go about not only getting a car, but paying for this vet bill and any future expenses for my cat. How have you been getting to work without the car?

I've been using ride share and sometimes I'm able to work remotely as well.

>> How much do you have saved for the car?

4,000? I've saved $4,877.

>> Do you have a goal you're trying to get to before you buy something?

Um I'd like to get a Toyota or a Honda cuz they're reliable, so I would prefer to have saved up between 8 to $10,000.

Okay. How quickly will you get to the 8 to 10?

>> [snorts] >> Um I had a goal of setting aside $1,000 per month, but it's been a bit tricky because I earn $18.54 per hour and then I get commission, but Mhm. What's that [clears throat] look like every month? >> What's it a It varies. I work for a major telecommunications company and um

commission you know On an average month, what do you make? I've been making for commission under 1,500, so my most recent check um I got

a raffle and I got about $2,220.39, but I just mean on a typical like a typical average month, what would you say if somebody just quickly said, "Hey, what do you make?" What would you say?

1,500? >> Um Yeah, we'll go with that. Yeah. I'm going to break some And that's 1,500 a month, not a week, right?

I'm paid bi-weekly, so yeah.

>> Okay, so $3,000 a month.

>> Mhm.

Yes?

Yes. Okay.

Um I don't think you have the money to spend 2,500 on your cat's biopsy. And mathematically it's just not there. You can't spend a month's earnings on your cat.

I wish you could because I love animals and We do. We do. You know, but yeah, this is not financially And not like you cuz you don't have that when you don't have a car. Yeah.

And you've got a pri- It's a It's a question of priority at that point. Do you fund the thing that causes you to be

able to work, which causes you to be able to eat and pay your bills, which is your vehicle? Or Do you see what I'm saying? And I'm not saying it's a I'm not saying it's an easy decision to make by any means. I'm just saying that it is a necessary one that every once in a while we come to these points where we have to prioritize in order of absolute importance. And

that And this is with anything, by the way. There is always going to be other things that compete to be the top dog, right? >> [clears throat] >> No pun intended, top cat.

But [snorts] the point is you've got to you've got to say, "No, no, no, no, no.

This is it. This is the number one thing." And number two is going to feel It doesn't make number two feel any less important, is what I'm saying. That's right, yeah. And I think what's you know, and it's always funny what hosts get which calls cuz George Camel

Yeah. He probably would say the same thing. But George would spend more on his pets than all He would. all of us

would. He would. >> [laughter] >> all of us combined. So, yeah, if he was on here, he probably would have a little bit more uh Yes. Lax, yeah, whatever. But yeah, it it is a it's a it's a hard decision, but we have to be wise. And this is where our emotions can easily trump our logic, right?

>> That's right. And you could do that with a home purchase. People go into a home cuz they're like, "Oh, we love it. It's exactly what we want." But it's 50% of their income is the monthly payment. Not logical. And so we do have to be

very, very thoughtful about what's going on. And yeah, and like you said, Jade, we we love animals and I would love for you to buy a car and then say, "Hey, let me save up and cash flow this expense coming up." Yeah.

Yeah. >> Um That That could be reasonable, too.

So Yeah, and maybe get a second opinion with the cat. Maybe there's something you can do or there's something that's, you know, will buy you some time. Yeah.

Um, but certainly please don't go into debt about this. That's my number one thing that I want you to take away is don't hear Rachel and I say we don't think it's wise for you to spend your cash on this and then please don't go and say well I'll put it on a payment plan or I'll put it on a credit card. We don't want you to do that. >> yeah. And again, this is always an interesting discussion cuz we get all the people in the comments who They're they're they're animal people.

>> not animal lovers and we are. We love we love animals. We have a dog. We I mean yes, it is great. >> it is your your livelihood on the line.

>> That's right. So we have yes, that's where we have to plug in like we have to be smart about this. Like there is a point of our emotions and attachment

Yes. is over drives like common sense, right?

And some people spend tens of thousands of dollars and the pet does not get better and then they you know what I mean? Like and they may or may not have the money for it. So like So there is we we just have to be logical in this Rebecca. So um And there is something to be said I'm a I'm a poke this bear right quick right before the show is over. >> Mhm. I love it. Um, you have to be able to afford the pets that you have.

Yes. So if you're not in a season where you have a lot of margin, it may not be the season to have pets.

>> throwing George out but George would say sell the horse, you know? He would he would. We don't have the money for to keep up with certain things. He would.

Like there's a point which [music] is sad but they will always they will always come back around.

Well Jade, great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth and remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk [music] daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 151. Stop Letting Emotions Ruin Your Finances | February 11, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in for your question today is8825-55225.88255225.

[music]

Let's start it off with Steve who joins us in Atlanta, Georgia. Steve, how can we help today?

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

>> So, um I'm trying to um get some advice

from you. I've got kind of a long-term problem here with my mother. And um I

[clears throat] think I should give a little backstory here. Um about 15 years

ago or so, uh her house was paid for. Um

and we had her car paid off. Um

I knew she's always been a spender. Um, I've been supplementing her income the last 10 years.

And, you know, I I knew she was spending

on credit cards, so I I I you know,

first I gave her $3,000 uh to pay them off. Then I gave her the next year $5,000 and then it went to seven. And then in 2024,

she had racked up 21,000 in credit card

debt, and I had a heart-to-heart with

her, and I paid them off. Um,

gave her 21,000, and uh um >> Let me guess, it's right there.

>> Yeah. Told her I was uh I was done. I was not doing this anymore. Um

and uh it's just kind of continued.

Where is it today? She Yes, >> she's at 33 now.

>> So, she went above and beyond. She outdid herself. [laughter] >> Yes. And so, last last year, I think I

should if I can continue a little. I uh

I'm just trying to figure out how I can help my mother. I want her to be okay, but I don't want, you know, I I paid her mortgage off. Um, and I didn't pay her

credit cards off. I felt like, uh, at

least I have some control and this is an

asset that's appreciating.

Um, >> what's your what's your question, Steve?

I know you want to keep going on, but we're pretty clear of what's going on here on our end. So, what's your question for us? So my question is, you know, what to do. You know, I don't want to pand Steve. Were you just Were you just playing poker with her and trying to bluff her when you told her you weren't going to do it again?

>> Well, you know, I guess how do I

>> No, no, no, no. Steve, get her to Steve.

Steve, that was a real question.

>> Yes or no? Were you bluffing or did you

mean it? That you were never going to pay off credit cards again?

>> I meant it.

>> Okay, then now you have to you have to prove that you meant it. There's something that you're um there's something in you that feels like you're bad or feels guilt for not solving her

problem.

>> And your guilt about not solving her

problem is stronger than your logic for actually doing the right thing.

Mhm.

[clears throat] >> Well, you know, I understand that. And so I I stood, you know, I took my guns.

She begged me to pay them off again. I didn't do it. Like I said, I paid the mortgage off. In fact, she actually got mad at me for doing that. As crazy as that sounds, >> it does sound crazy, but it sounds crazy for both of you guys. Here's what I want you to not do. Um, if if if Ken and I

give you a response going forward, I want you to not answer with the past, I want you to answer with something also that will be going forward. Is that fair enough?

>> Okay. >> Because the the milk is spilled. Right here we are. There was years of uh enablement and now we're at a a precipice of a new way of doing life for both you and your mother. Right.

>> Correct. >> Hopefully. And so Ken and I are gonna help you get to that point and go forward from here and leave the past in the past.

>> Yeah. So I guess my question to this is

bankruptcy. She's she's she signed up for a debt consolidation company and and uh I don't want her to get taken advantage of. So that's the gist of my call. >> I don't think you have to worry about her being taken advantage of. I think you she she's the take advantager of

right. I don't think you have to worry about that. >> Well, I Steve I listen I I have a lot of sympathy for you. I really do. But you called us and you're asking us questions and and the question that you're not actually asking is what is okay for me to do and what is

not okay for me to do. You're not asking it that way and you're just circling the drain emotionally with her. And so

you're asking like what about bankruptcy and all these things. Here's the deal.

Your mother would be considered uh by

the state wherever she lives, right, as

uh capable of managing her own money.

Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And even then, you're struggling.

You're still making excuses for your mom. Your mom is a grown woman who has

got all kinds of pain. And there's some backstory that leads to all of this behavior, but none of it matters. That's why I'm not going to list it out. What matters is is you. And Jade nailed it.

You're in a really tough emotional spot.

And I think what you're supposed to do here is is acknowledge what kind of a tough emotional spot you're in. I would share it one last time with mom. Hey, I'm now out financially, but I will tell you the residue is I'm emotionally worried for you and I feel like I'm not being a good son. But here's the problem, Mom. If I bail you out, you're not going to stop and it's going to hurt our relationship. So, I can no longer

worry about you. So, I'm going to lay it out. Mom, you can't keep doing this.

Here are your options right now. You're going to have to manage your own money, and you're going to have to wash your hands of this or else it's going to drive you absolutely emotionally insane,

and then you're going to end up truly resenting your mother. Yeah.

>> This is a sad part is that you can't do anything. >> Are you the only child, Steve? Is it just you, >> a grown adult? >> Well, I grew up I grew up Yeah. I So, technically I am. And we could go down some some deeper rabbit holes, but I grew up with uh with two steps and a step. Um, >> and they're not in the equation today.

Are they in the equation today or No, [sighs] >> they're not. >> Okay. And how old is your mom?

She's getting ready to turn 80.

>> Okay. Um, yeah, >> she has some physical u problems.

>> I agree with Ken. She's she's 80, but she's she's still here. She her mind sounds like her mind works plenty well, right?

It's not She's not slipped. Is she slipping?

>> Without going down the rabbit hole, she's she's had some uh depression issues for certain. depression. Okay.

But I'm talking about is she is she with it? Um, you know, does she no dementia, nothing like that, right? >> Aside from her giving you the power of attorney and and basically her custodian for a lack of a better word. I know that's not the right word, so take it easy on me in the comments, >> but aside from her agreeing for you to manage her money, that's all you can do.

So maybe you talk mom into doing that with her being 80 with health problems, then you can manage her money. But aside from her giving you that sad >> she'll she'll die with this debt is the sad part. But that's not your problem.

And I'm really sad that you're in this situation. I think your one move is to go, "Mom, will you let me be in charge of all your money? Give me total control [music] and I'll take care of you." That's the only shot you got.

[music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

All right, let's go to Stewie in Chicago. I hope I said that right.

Stewie, how can we help?

>> So, I've got probably the opposite problem of the last caller. I am kind of a saver. >> Okay. >> And maybe over the last 10 years, I've been collecting cash, collecting cash. I always throw it in a drawer and I never really use it. And now I realized just the other day I realized I've got about $300,000 in my house.

>> Oh wow. >> Wow.

>> And I'm not I'm unsure of what to do with it. And how did is it do I take it

to the bank? Is it okay? [laughter] >> Is that your only is that your only money, Stewie? Is the 300,000 or have you ever used a bank?

>> No, I have a bank. I have a bank. I It started I don't It started as kind of a game 10 years ago. I'm save I save $100 bills and I just save. I don't know.

[laughter] Um >> Yeah, but that's a lot. >> I got some money in a bank, but I just I got more than I It's too much at the house, it seems like. >> Yeah, it's a it's a risk. >> It's too much. What [laughter] do you What do you have? Do you have a traditional savings account?

>> I have I have got a checking account

>> and I've got a high yield savings account for some other money that I've got. >> Okay. Do you have any investment accounts? anything that's like a 401k or an IRA, anything like that?

>> I never have. >> Okay. Okay. How old are you, Stewie?

>> I 50. I just turned 50. Okay.

>> You have no 401k, no retirement account of any kind.

>> Never have. >> Who do you work for? Well, you don't need to tell us that because I want to keep you as private as possible. But what kind of work do you do?

>> I'm self-employed. I work in agriculture

>> and I and our business does >> our business takes in a lot of cash and I just at one point I decided, you know what, I like cash. I'm going to keep it around and out of hand to see.

>> Well, listen. So, Jade is pulling up her uh handy dandy investment calculator.

This is off of Ramseyolutions website, ramiesolutions.com.

You need to pay close attention, Stewie, with the numbers and then she'll tell you what to do. So Stewie, with you just saving these $100 bills, what would you say on in a month, how much do you think you put away into savings under your mattress or wherever it is in your house? >> I have no It's slowed down quite a bit.

My family's a lot larger now. Um the kids are bigger. We're spending more.

>> Sure. But I mean, is it 500 bucks? Is it to you know, give me a ballpark?

>> Yeah, 500 to a,000 probably. 500.

>> Okay, I'll say 500. So, here's what I here's what I want to show you. Uh, first off, if you take that money and you invest it, which you should be doing, because the truth is the time is going to come when you don't work, right? You're 50. I'm sure there's going to be a time where you don't want to have to go into work. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And you need to have a nest egg of money to draw off of, and there's a limited

amount of time for you to build that nest egg. Fair enough.

>> True. Therefore, we need to harness the power of compounding interest. And when

it's at home, there's zero compounding interest. As a matter of fact, it's almost negative. It's depleting the value of your money because inflation, right? There's no hedge against inflation. And you understand that.

>> So, if we can, you know, next step is yeah, you pop it in a high yield savings and maybe get 3.5% or maybe 4%. That's

okay. But if you were to invest it in really just kind of your basic index

fund, you know, good growth stock,

mutual fund, growth in income, you could really have an average annualized rate

of return of around 10%. Like you could pretty much bet on that. Okay. So, [snorts] if we did that, if we just popped that 300,000 into an index fund, I mean, you don't even have to get sophisticated here.

that money and you just said, "Hey, instead of putting the $500 that I sock away under the mattress, I'm going to just add that to that pile every month." Do you know that just in 17 years by the

time you're 67, you're going to have it would be almost $2 million. It'd be 1.89

million.

>> I mean, it seems hard to believe, but I I believe you. >> Yeah. And it and it is. And you need here the bigger part is you need that money because you said your family's continued to grow. There will come a day whether you want it or not that you can't work. So if I were in your shoes too and I I know Ken would do the same.

We would be skipping down to the bank,

you know, we'd be skipping over to uh invest that money right away because you said how much do you have in the high yield savings?

>> Uh probably 400.

>> Oh man. Oh man, you're a rich man, Stewie. >> Hold on. I just want to make sure. 400,000.

>> I do. >> Okay. So, that's amazing. But listen,

you've got to get with a Smart Invest Pro. Gotcha. >> Okay. So, we're going to have Christian direct you uh to the spot on our website. You need to interview a minimum of three Smart Veester pros. They're independent of us. They're licensed, the whole nine yards, but they'll advise you the way we've advised you. and you are sitting on $700,000 in cash. So, what our advice would be is

that you have 3 to six months of your expenses in that savings account, high

yield. Okay? So, let's just say for sake of discussion, that's 50,000.

>> I'd even let him keep a hundred. Clearly, Stewie is the type that likes >> Okay, so let's say he keeps a hundred in there. So, now we've got $600,000 that

you need to get invested soon.

in in really good the mutual funds that she's talking about and let that money go to work for you and no longer are we putting money in the drawer the way you pay yourself the smart vest pro that you

select and go with and they're going to explain everything to where you understand it >> and your eyes are going to bug out of your head. >> Yeah. >> And now you start doing what Jade told you to do and again you're going to be a very very wealthy person. Uh, but you

need to get on it because you've lost who knows how many millions of dollars by not having done this earlier. And at 50, it's time for you to step up and do this. There's nothing to be scared of, and they'll explain it well, but that's your next step. >> What's your aversion to it, Stewie? What is what's caused you to kind of shy away from that?

>> I don't know if I have an answer. It started out as a game. I thought I I like saving money and so I started as and then I thought you know what >> I I I feel I felt maybe at sometime I'm fearful of the stock I am fearful of the stock market. >> Okay, that's what I was getting to.

Tell tell us about that. Why are you fearful of the stock stock market because that that originated somewhere and if we can just put our finger on that we can we can change that and shift that in your mind for you. [snorts] >> I'm not sure. I mean I know that my grandpa told me stories of hardship during the depression.

I don't know if that's enough to just Yes.

>> know that I'm scared of the stock market stock market. >> Stewie, spend some time thinking about that tonight because those stories, all of those things. Grandma, grandpa told me this. I saw an image of this.

I heard this sto report on TV. I read this in the news. All of that stuff starts to build up and it starts to inform our our view on a particular subject. And the thing is that's okay.

That's normal. But we do have to come to a point where we challenge it and we say, "Okay, this is the story I'm telling myself. Is it actually true? Is it true?

But if I actually hold it up next to facts, I find out that that's actually not the truth. And so I love that you called in today cuz Ken and I are giving we are giving you the facts. The truth is the annualized rate of return of the

stock market since inception has been hovered around anywhere between 9 to 12%, right? Depending on a given year.

And so it's always going to it's always ended up up. And yes, there's been downturns, but usually it recovers very quickly within the next year or two after it's it's fully recovered and then some. And so the point of the stock market is it's a long-term it's a long-term ride, right? It's not something you hop in and hop out of. But in your case, Stewie, oh my goodness.

You pop in 600,000 and maybe you leave the other 100,000 liquid. And I mean, you're going to be a very rich man when when it comes time to retire. So well done. >> Mhm.

And I would be very careful about how I transported the 300,000 in cash to the bank. >> What do you do? You put it in a duffel bag. >> Even that looks pretty obvious.

If some dude rolls into your local bank and a duffel bag, you're like, there's cash in that bag. >> Yeah. Be careful, Stewie. They're going to >> I don't know how many trips [laughter] you got in there.

>> Oh man. And it Oh god. [laughter] >> I'd think about some security on that.

It's a lot of dough.

>> You got >> Can you walk Can you just walk in with that kind of money? And >> I don't No. Here's what I would ask. I would go talk to my local bank >> and the branch and say, "Here's what I've done.

Help me do this the most secure way. They they've done this before." So, >> okay. >> Yeah. >> Otherwise, you're going to need some very, very muscle bound people to walk with you.

>> I I was putting [laughter] myself in his shoes.

Something crazy random would happen to me. >> Yeah. And you know what I mean? >> And you'd be on the side of the road just with the stack of cash. >> Yeah. I think I'd go hire a local Brinks guy and just be like, "Lock me in the back of this thing with it and drop me off." [laughter] >> Yeah. >> No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. That's not what you should do. Go talk to your local branch manager, get a plan, and go

talk to a Smart Vtor pro.

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[music]

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[music] All right. We wish we could get to every call and question here on the show.

There's just so many calls, so little time. So, if you have a money question and want an answer for your situation, you can now head to our website and use Ask Ramsay. This is our free AI tool that's built and trained on our proven Ramsay principles. You get an answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, ask your question today at

ramseyolutions.com and click on ask Ramsay or if you're watching on YouTube or listening to the podcast, you can click uh on the link in the show notes. You think if you if you ask it a question, it'll say in your kin voice. >> No, >> I gotta tell you. >> It ain't going to do that. >> The I gota tell >> I'll tell you what it will do. It's going to give you the fundamentals, but it ain't going to give you my special sauce. >> The sauce the juice the way I would answer it.

[laughter] Uh not going to be as pragmatic as me.

I'll tell you that right now. Okay.

>> But gonna get you your pure fundamental answer. >> You'll get you Yeah, you will get you will get a Ramsey plan answer.

>> There you go. Damian is up in Lincoln, Nebraska. Damian, how can we help today?

>> Uh, I just had a question for you. Um, so I got this pile of debt that I've accumulated over the past couple years.

It started with just some small consumer debt and an auto loan. Um, started working on that and then this past year I had a four-wheel accident that put me in a pretty big bind with um bunch of

medical debt. I had unfortunately dropped my in or my parent I had dropped off my parents insurance and I forgot to sign myself up for my own when I rolled into my new job. So I uh got a pretty hefty

pile there. >> Oh man. So, yeah, I'm kind of leaning between is it a go into chapter 7 and

just wipe the whole slate clean or I've

gotten met to the point where my income and expenses are all leveled out and I'm actually able to start paying down debt.

Um, >> how much is the medical debt?

>> Uh, 210,000.

>> Oh, wow. Okay.

>> Do you now have insurance currently?

>> Uh, yeah. Okay. >> Yep. I've always had it. I just forgot for the one year and I thought I'd be fine, but >> Oh man, you got God got, didn't you?

That's the odds of that are so crazy.

>> Okay, so the 210, is that the only debt?

>> Uh, no. I have 19,000 in a card, credit

card debt that has went to collections.

Uh 18,000 on a auto loan that I had let

go to repossession. Uh 4,000 on student

loans. And then the 210.

Okay. Um, was the credit cards in the

repo a result of this injury? Is that

kind of >> Tell me more about that. >> They would have been Yeah, they would have been prior. Um, so years I've been following you guys for like 10 years now. I had worked my way down on credit card and then uh we had moved to Lincoln

and I built it back up during that whole moving process and just never paid more than the minimum. So that that was there. And then uh with all of those adding up, the auto payment was uh just

killing me. So I should stop paying on it. >> Oh boy. Okay. Um and but you said you're steady now. Like what's your income today? What do you make? What do you bring home every month?

>> So before tax I'm 82,000 a year and then

plus a bonus. Um but my take-home monthly is about 4,700.

>> Okay. Okay. And do the bonuses do they hit like at at the end of the year?

>> Yep. In October. And this last year we

got a very minimal one. So let's see what this year ends up being. It was 2000. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So I would not

do bankruptcy. I know that that probably feels tempting, but I think what's going to end up happening is you don't have a whole lot of money to give these creditors. Obviously, um you have a little bit, but you don't have much. And so I would start working with them on some sort of settlement pretty soon. Uh how long have these been due? Have any of them rolled into collections?

>> Uh so all of the cards are the medical is I think one of them has. It was like a $20,000 one. The rest is still with the u the biller.

>> Yes. >> At this time. >> Yeah. Okay.

So for the one that's rolled into collections, you're now positioned to make some sort of a deal. and I would just do them one by one and roll them off. Uh I, you know, whatever the smallest credit card is, I'd go over there and say, "This has been in collections for x amount of years." And I'd stack up a little bit of cash. So, for instance, uh what's the smallest credit card that you have in collections?

>> Uh I think there's like three of them that are about $500. Okay.

>> Yeah. But you're not paying $500. I'd go to them and I'd say, "I [clears throat] can give you 100 bucks." And they're going to take it. >> Mhm. >> And you're just going to scratch them out just like that. The thing is, get it all in writing and and I would just let them know I'd be like, "This is just the tip of the iceberg of the debt that I have." So, if you think that you're getting any more money than this, you're not. And and and just be on them the

same way you're they're on you. Just call them and call them and call them and say, "Here's my offer. Here's my offer." And they might come back and say, "What about 250?" Fine. At this point, it's low enough.

Yes, go ahead and take whatever deal they offer. But for the bigger ones, when you start getting into that medical debt, yeah, you're you're going to really whittle it down.

>> Okay. On the uh so with the auto one

that had rolled over into collections, they are wanting to do a settlement for really cheap. Like I said, $18,000 is what I owe and they were wanting to do 900. The only thing that was concerning me is that they list on there that they will file a $1099 on that and I was kind

of confused how that whole process worked. >> Well, that's the least of your worries.

$900 settlement on an 18 $18,000 debt on

a car. You're taking that and you deal with it. So the 1099 jade, that's just

their way of that's how they're writing it off and then they because they're eating this big time.

>> That's about them. That's >> you have no choice in the matter on that. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And it's a small amount of money. So back to Jade's point, like same thing on if somebody told you you were going to get some 1099 income and you're going to go do $1,000 worth of landscaping, you would hold back, right? 30% just to be safe. >> So you're just thinking about that.

talk to your tax pro because you're starting to knock stuff off. So, don't be concerned about that. >> Yeah. So, what you need to be looking at is if you're trying to settle this, it's really common that you could settle a debt for anywhere between 30 to 50% of the balance if it's already in collections.

So, that's kind of the range that you want to aim in.

balance. Okay? That's kind of where you want to be. You want to make sure that you have that lump sum and you want to make sure that you have it all documented. I mean, this is when you get that letter, [laughter] this is the one that you laminate and you put it you put it in a ice, you you know, put it in ice

and keep it forever. Okay.

>> It's true. [laughter] I love that. Yeah.

So, Damian, yeah, I mean, you are actually working through this the right way. You don't need to file bankruptcy.

You just settle these things one at a time. And now the big question is, are you learning your lesson?

>> Oh, it is. It is learned many times over. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and here's the deal.

We asked that, by the way, not to put any kind of shame on you, >> but really so that there's some conviction that's developed out of this.

You know what I mean? Because none of us are sitting here without anything dumb.

You've heard Dave say it for decades. I got a PhD in DUMB. So, but this is the

key, right? Get through this, but never again.

Yeah. No, I this is not a journey I ever want to take again. That is that is for sure. >> And you're going to have to deal with some I mean the the truth is uh you

can't afford to pay all of these. So 1800 pay me is going to be blowing up your line. Y >> and that that right there uh is more

detrimental. Yeah. >> Speak to that because you've actually walked through that. How does not just uh Damian but other people that are experiencing give them that mindset of what their options actually are?

Well, number one, it it it feels detrimental because they're calling you all the time and they it makes you feel bad about yourself, right? And that's the trap I don't want you to fall into because you do have a plan and you're sticking to your plan. And that's really what you have to tell them.

You're next or I'm getting to you next.

And when I get to you, you better be ready to make a deal." Uh-huh. So, that's kind of the way that goes. Uh I I'm more telling you it as a friendly warning. If you get to the point that you're able to make some minimum payments there, [music] you could, but it's not really going to help you when it comes to settling it.

>> Yeah. Really good advice. So, hey, [music] uh there is a way. Seems like you've got the will now and uh we're cheering you on and better days are ahead here, but you got to finish this.

>> [music]

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>> All right, let's go to Tyler who joins us now in Wilmington, Delaware. Tyler, how can we help today?

So, I'm in this uh relationship where I feel like I get uh leaned on financially

pretty well and I'm very young and I do

pretty well as of right now. I have a lot of money saved up and I just am wondering the, you know, perspective that you guys may have on is that like a healthy relationship or should I be using this time at my age to generate

more wealth than what I'm doing current?

>> What is the relationship? Is this a marriage? Is this dating? What are we talking about? >> Dating. >> Okay. How long you've been dating?

>> Uh, a year and a half.

>> Year and a half. How much money do you make?

>> 135. >> And um you said you've you've been uh putting stuff away. Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. >> And what kind of retirement situation you starting to build?

Um, I max out my uh 401k and then I uh

have about in my private savings account

just around $100,000 making me about 18%

a year. >> Okay. So, tell me about the other person in this relationship. What do they do and how much do they make?

um they are in uh mental health and they

make around $50,000 a year with um

somewhere near 70 $80,000 in debt currently. >> Okay, now let's get to the crux of the call. Um >> yes, >> what do you mean by leaned on? Like let's get real here. Like we need we need an example that really bothers you.

either hurt you or angered you or maybe one of each. [laughter] I'm gathering all this for for Jade and I to be able to to weigh in here. So, give us some examples or one good example.

>> I would say like vacations and then like weekend funds, dates, everything along

those lines. It's like you pay for vacation.

>> Yes. >> The whole thing.

>> Yep. >> And is it manipulative in how she puts that out there? Like how is that decided?

No, it's more of just like

she knows that I know and that it's like really not even up for discussion.

>> So, who who wait?

>> How does she know that? >> Yeah.

>> Well, just that like she knows that I know she's not in a great financial situation. And like, you know, in this young day and age, I feel like, you know, >> females want to do all the fun stuff and just because the situation, they may not be able to. It's just >> he just went he just went females. When you say females, that already lets me know something has gone down.

>> I [laughter] agree. >> That's caused you to be uh you're feeling some type of way. >> I haven't heard yet, Jade. Anything where she's leaning on you?

>> Well, that's what I'm going to get to.

Tell me how the conversation goes down.

Is it you saying, "Oh, it's, you know, it's July. We should probably go on vacation. What do you have in mind?" Or is it her bringing up, "Hey, it's July.

We should probably go on vacation. What do you have in mind?" like tell me how the conversations go and and and I need that because it's very different if you saying hey you know let's go let's go down to Fort Lauderdale and she's like okay and and you're like hey I made the reservation for the Hilton and she's like okay and then you just go versus her saying where do you want to go uh honey and you're like well I don't know and she says well I found this really cute place I think we should go here and then you're like whoa okay right all of that matters so I want to know how it goes >> I say it's more of like a oh we should do something and then like I'm a very minimalist person and then the perspective on their end gets a little starts to you know the standard starts to increase and then it just kind of goes from there.

>> Okay, listen I ain't saying she's the gold digger.

>> I think do you feel that? I want to make sure I get the female perspective. I feel the Okay, I get the lean. So

>> where where are you relationally with this gal?

Like is this >> I don't I don't live with them. No.

>> No, no, no. I I'm not even I wasn't even getting into that. I'm saying good.

>> Uh what's your on a scale of one to 10?

10 being she's absolutely one. I'm going to marry her no matter what. Or one

being could care less if I'm in this relationship one more day. There's your extremes. Where are you at with her?

>> I Yeah, I feel like I'm like right in the middle. It's just like a little stuck situation. I do care about that.

You know what I You care about her, but this is troubling you.

>> Yes. >> So, what we need to decipher here is the line, and Ken, you're just the man to do this. We need to decipher the line between the classic chivalous male

behavior. And I know I'm I'm choosing.

>> I would agree. I would agree.

>> And then what is too much and um kind of

like the lean as what what we called it.

So, I'm going to start by saying yes. If you take me on a date, especially like you're not living together, like there's no like intent that we are in any way beyond dating. I'm expecting the male to pay every single time. >> Totally agree. And I would say yes, you should be paying for dates. You guys have been dating how many years?

>> Yeah. One and a half. Yeah. Yeah. So, you're paying for dates. However, when she comes up with an idea that is an expensive idea, and by the way, you get to determine what you feel is expensive.

This is a two-way street.

>> That's right. And you're the money.

>> So when she brings that up, you should feel free to say that feels like it's

too much.

>> And you can explain why.

>> I agree. >> And and I think it's incumbent on you to explain why. Then if she follows up and goes, well, why why then you start to go, you know what?

Some of this is on me because in the past you've suggested stuff that I would not normally pay for given my views on money. and I've got a formula in place.

I don't want to spend this much. You lay it all out so she knows where you're coming from. She shouldn't be guessing.

>> On a vacation. >> Yes. On a vacation. >> What's the chival risk behavior? I'm thinking half and half. >> It's half and half. But but I'm saying he has to take that stand and and think about it ahead of time and then say no.

He has to feel comfortable going, I'm not comfortable going on a $6,000 vacation. >> I I I I agree with that. I agree with that. >> And she goes, why? You explain it. And let's say you go, and I'm making this up. You go, I'm comfortable with a $2,000 vac. Okay, great. So then you explain to her, but I think you should be paying for half of it. Well, I can't right now. We aren't going.

>> Or we pick something more in your budget. >> Yeah. And then go and let this bleed into and I probably the wrong word. Let this lead into a bigger conversation about money so that you, my friend, can go from being a

five to a eight, nine, or a 10 on

whether or not we stay in this relationship. >> You're looking for certainty right now because Jade, I'm going to bring it back to you. You're in the weeds on this and the data and you coach people >> because he's dating right now and he's on a five. >> Yes.

If this doesn't go to some certainty on whether or not they're a good fit from a value standpoint on money, this causes how many issues down the line? >> It's going to cause so I mean it's the number one number two depending on what piece of research you're looking at cause of divorce, money fights and money problems.

each of your philosophies on money. And now is not the time to try to change somebody. Now is the time to try to go, who are you for real? >> Great point. >> You know, I want to see who you are for real and and vice versa.

>> Yeah. Now, if she says, "Okay,

I she needs to feel the weight." >> Yes. >> Of this. And we hope, Tyler, that this

goes one of two ways. My hope is is that

she reveals herself. Jade's absolutely right. And so, once she reveals herself, and what we mean by that is how she views money, at which point we now get to have a very serious conversation about how you view money. And is there a bridge to where we meet in the middle?

in middle being, I'll help you and guide you and teach the principles that I've been living by, right? If you're willing to do it, that's me in the middle here. And then you're going to find out really quick whether or not she values you enough to change her values about money.

>> Yes. But the key strategy to what Ken is saying, and this is key, and this is for anybody listening, when you bring up the money conversation, the first question,

you don't say your philosophy first.

>> Good. You let them say first because if they really like you and you say, "Oh, debt. I Yeah, I don't do debt." They're going to go, "Oh, yeah, me too. Yeah, me too." If they really like you and they think that you right, people tend to kind of shapeshift, especially in those early stages. So, you first say, >> "What's your philosophy on debt?" And just shut up. Let them talk. Don't

influence anything they're saying. You need to see this. You need to hear it.

Then you go, "Okay, well, would you like to know mine?" >> It's a great point. So, Tyler, this feels like this is a massive, massive moment in this relatively young relationship. So, step into it and uh let's see how this plays out. But you got a great head on your shoulders.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside the incomparable fabulous Jade Warshaw.

I'm just Ken. Coleman is the last name.

Excited that you're with us.

88825-5225LE8825-55225

is the number to jump in. All right, let's go to Jeff in Salt Lake City.

Jeff, how can we help today?

>> Uh, thanks for having me. Sure.

>> Um, so I lost my job um a financial

adviser, lost my job back in June of

2025. Um, I was without gain meaningful

employment for gosh almost 5 months. Um, it took me

took me five months to get hired on with another firm. Um,

and so now I am going I mean I still

have not received a paycheck for my new job and the whole situation has just been really a disaster for um my family,

for my home life, for my finances.

Um >> Okay. How long can you >> How long have you been at the new job?

>> Um I hired on in November. Um,

and >> what is the reason?

>> Okay. What is the reason for you starting last November and you still haven't received a paycheck?

>> Um, trying to transition my old business

over. Um, when I was let go from my

previous firm, probably half of my my

existing book of business was ready to move with me. And with everything taking

so long, most [snorts] of those clients have unfortunately moved on. Um, >> what kind of business are you in?

>> I'm a financial adviser.

>> So, you left one firm and you've signed off with another firm, but it's basically straight commission. You're just that they're a place for you to hang your hat essentially. You couldn't continue to serve those others >> independently until you landed at a

another umbrella business.

>> I could not. So I was I was terminated from that from my original job. Um I had

been with the firm for probably eight years and when I was terminated I mean I

had no I mean I could sit there and I could continue to contact them and talk with them but ultimately they wanted somebody who could you know >> like do the work. Yeah. >> All right. So, >> I couldn't do that. >> All right. So, for sake of time, let's get into what kind of disaster has happened so that we know what we're and and and and frame the question for us.

So, we need to know where you're at financially, but what can we help with specifically as you lay this out for us?

>> Yeah. So, so we have we have blown through um just about all of our savings.

Um >> how much is left in savings?

Maybe 10,000. >> 10,000. Okay. So, how much debt do you have?

>> Um I think we only have about uh 15,000

in debt. >> Okay. And when do you expect to make the pay like have you >> What's going on there? Are you finding new folks? Are you able to get the others fired back up again?

>> What's the reality here?

>> It's been very slow. Um right now I'm pulling in about two clients a month.

What were you doing before? What was your normal month for you before?

>> I mean, before I I managed to book a business of about $100 million. I mean, it I I was >> Yeah, but she's how much did you make?

[snorts] >> I was for 2025, I would have had I been had I remained employed, I would have made I would have made probably 300,000 that year. >> Okay. >> Oh gosh. Okay. >> So, you didn't really answer her question. When do you expect to actually get paid?

I should get paid this month. >> How much? >> But I don't The thing is >> it could be 5,000.

>> Okay. Oh boy. I'm way off of where I was. >> But we only have 15,000 in debt.

Correct.

>> Okay. Then what is your what is your monthly budget that you just bare minimum to take care of all the the important things? How much do you have to be bringing in? What is that number?

Um,

I mean, take care of everything. I mean, we've we've got three kids. We've got school tuition and and all that stuff. I mean, we're we're probably at at at 10,000 a month. >> Okay. >> Is where I need to be to >> Okay. You need 10,000 a month. Can I ask a question? Um, what precludes you from

being on your own as a financial adviser? What's the thing that stops you from just saying, "Hey, I Jeff, I'm my own man. and I'm my own business and I I can just run my business versus being under an umbrella because you don't really with two clients, you don't really have the luxury of somebody taking a major piece of every chunk of money that you get. You see what I'm saying? >> So, I am I am considered independent at this point. I'm a 1099 adviser, whereas at my previous firm I was W2.

>> Okay? >> And that firm was taking roughly 60% of, you know, the cut. >> And and what's this firm taking?

um they they only take about 15%.

>> Right. And but my my and my question remains, what's the benefit there for you because they're clearly not giving you leads?

>> Correct. There's no there are no leads there. There's there's really no support. >> No, it's on you. I've got a good friend who just got into this business two years ago. A couple things here to fast forward this. You're not in a massive debt situation. That's the good news, right? Your problem is is your income.

and and you presented at the start of this call like there's some family stuff going on, but this is this is a point

where you've got to make some money like >> Yeah. >> right now and you know how to build a book book of business. Yes or no?

>> Yeah. >> All right then. Then like bro, we're in desperate I I don't have some magic pill of advice here. Three tips on how to win as a financial planner. You actually know how to do it. You've got to do it.

Now, in the meantime, I don't know what's going on and we don't have time and quite frankly, I don't think it matters as to why you got fired, what it's done to your home life, cuz you mentioned it. >> But if your wife can work and is not working, we are in a season where she needs to because we have a $5,000 deficit that is hitting us really quickly and we only have $10,000 of

savings left. So, we're in go get it mode. Am I right, Jade? What am I missing? Well, I just want to remind you that you're the same guy who had who did $300,000 of income last year.

>> You're that same guy. Um I don't think you remember that. Like talking to you, it feels like you've forgotten that you're that guy. >> And that's why I'm encouraging you. I don't think you need uh you know, whatever this umbrella company is. I think you can just go out there. I think you can, in the words of Dave Ramsey, kill something, drag it home, and eat it. And I think that you're getting too hung up on these other details. I to

Ken's point, you know how to build a book of business and you've done it before. Nothing is stopping you from doing it again. I think the last five months really dinged your self-esteem, but I mean Ken, he's the same guy.

>> Yeah. I Jeff, I'll just ask a point blank question. This is a yes or no answer. Are you dealing with a lot of shame?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um, are you seeing a therapist

>> on and off? >> Okay. There's a book that I'm going to recommend to you and it's a heavy heavy read, but it's worth reading. I've read it, am reading it. It's called Healing the Shame That Binds You by John Bradshaw. It's considered the the the the foremost book written on shame. I think it's really important that you grasp the concepts in that book as well as therapy. Uh, but you got to throw your shoulders back right now. We don't have time to be ashamed, but it's a real

feeling. It's underneath there. But I really recommend that you read that book [music] that you lean in. But this is circle the wagons time with your wife.

Let's go. We can figure this out. We absolutely can. And now we must. And and

[music] what I'm hearing is a guy who rightfully so is ashamed of himself.

We've all been there. But man, you have so much more to give. You're going to learn a lot through this season. So let's go, man.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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All right, next we go to Cord Delane, Idaho. Alexandra is there. Alexandra, how can we help today?

>> Hi, my husband and I love you guys. Um, you guys helped us so much get out of student debt when we were first married.

Um, I'm calling because I have a question with my husband and I were not in total in agreement on how to spend money. Now that we're out of debt, we are on baby step four. Okay. Um, and

we're in the process of buying a home and we're trying to do it the Ramsay way. But now that we're in a better spot, just learning how to spend money now, what it looks like. Um, specifically my stepsister and my best friend are both getting married out of the country this year and I was hoping to attend their wedding even though doing so will be expensive and my husband feels like traveling like this is really like financially irresponsible and but he said if I called you guys and got your permission that we could go. So

my specific question this is our favorite. You couldn't have, in my opinion, couldn't have got two better co-hosts today because we have disagreed on these things from time to time. And I'll just tell you, I'm usually more lenient. >> I don't know if we'll disagree this time, >> Jade. We don't know. It's starting off pretty good. >> Yeah, I heard baby step four, so it's already looking good. >> Couple quick clarifying questions.

>> You said two weddings. Yes.

>> Yeah. >> Stepsister and best friend.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And where are both weddings?

One is in Italy and one is in Sri Lanka.

>> Oh Neither one of those uh are

discount airlines. So that's that's going to be expensive. Have you run the numbers on what these trips are going to cost? Both together.

>> I think together it would be about $10,000.

>> How what what's the time frame? Are they both over the summer or are they spread out at all?

>> One is in May and one is in August.

>> Oh lordy. Which one's in May?

>> The Italy one. >> Is that Is that the best friend? No, that's the stepsister.

>> Yes. Okay. >> Is Is Hubs included in this number? Is

he going with you on both?

>> He's going with me to one, not for the other though, because we have a toddler and we think it'd be too much for the toddler. >> Yeah, 100%. So, by the way, it's so just clarifying, it's 10,000 for you to go to

both and him to go to one, >> right? >> Which one is he going to?

>> The one with my steps sister in Italy.

>> Okay, good choice. >> So, the first one. Okay, >> good choice. I like his choice.

>> So, do you have the money? Do you have the money set aside?

Not yet, but right now with we do every dollar and we have about like 2,000 after like um retirement and all of our necessary expenses. So, I think if we save for the next couple of months, we could easily save up for it, but we haven't done so yet.

>> Okay. So, I love solving these with what

I'm going to call the financially responsible adult checklist, which is going to give you some freedom here.

>> I'm glad you're doing your eyes roll. I'm already ready to decide. I'm already ready. I've already decided. >> I mean, I I think I have two, but I'm giving her the framework on how we arrived. >> This is good. >> So, there's five things in the financially responsible adult checklist.

Number one, are you a person who's on a budget? Yes. You mentioned every dollar beautifully several times. >> Check. >> Check. Number two, are you a person who is out of debt and plans to stay out of debt? >> Check. >> Check. Number three, are you a person who carries the proper insuranceances?

Now, this means, have you started your term life insurance? You've got a little one there. Uh, one of you depends on each other's income. If you haven't done that, you need to do that before you make the decision. >> Okay, let's get an answer. Where are we at on that one?

>> We both have life insurance.

>> Check. >> I had to lasso. Okay, that's number three. >> This one is, are you a person who uh is saving for the future? Now, this means three things. Uh, you've got your baby step one. You already did that. You've got baby step three in place. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Uh, yes. That's retirement, right?

>> Uh, again, no. Baby step three is 3 to six months of >> expenses. >> Yes. >> They she said they were on baby step four. Is that right? Okay. >> And you're act you're actively doing the 15% to retirement, >> right? >> And are you actively putting something towards a down payment on a house? You mentioned that.

>> Yes. We're in escar right now actually.

>> Yes. Okay. >> That's four out of four. >> That's four. And then there's a fifth one. The fifth one on the financially responsible list is, are you prioritizing generosity?

>> Yeah, we tithe.

Listen, that's all you need. That's all you need. Everything else is you just got >> The tough one to get through is gonna always be Jade. She's just tougher than me. She just is. No surprise.

>> I lift with weights, kid. >> Um, yes, you do. And, uh, showing off the guns again. Uh, so the fact that you

guys can actually cash flow this, this is a no-brainer. Tell Hubs that you have two yeses. >> Yes. >> And this is an American Idol, so you only need two. In the words of Clubber, [laughter] In the words of Clubber Lang.

Ding ding. >> Ding ding. I love the Rocky reference.

[laughter] Fantastic. Alexander. It sounds like it's going to be a blast.

>> Have fun. >> Oh, thank you. >> Yeah. And good for you, by the way. Love that you guys. And by the way, let's just be very clear to our greater audience here. She doesn't need our permission. We're have a little bit of fun with this. But I love that you listened to Jade walk through those five boxes. That's fantastic. Uh, and in this

case, I love too that they were like, I'll go to the one in Sri Lanka and I'll stay back. That's great. You don't always have to both be there.

>> Yeah, you don't have to do that. >> It's the thought that counts. >> Plus, let's be honest. Does any man ever want to go to a wedding, Ken? >> No. I've been very clear on this.

[laughter] Uh, no dude ever wants to go.

>> Even Even a destination wedding, the destination doesn't zing it up for you.

>> No. In fact, if Stacy said to me tonight, "Hey, we've been invited to a wedding in um Barbados." >> You love Barbados? >> I love and been to Barbados, but I would be in but slightly irritated. And if she said to me, "Well, you don't have to go to the ceremony." Then I would be [laughter] like, "Oh, I'm totally in." >> Right now you're just her sidekick.

>> Yeah, I'm just travel buddy. And buddy, we're we're there in Barbados.

>> I don't have to go to the ceremony. But if you say you got to go to the ceremony, I'm telling you I have a bad attitude about going to Barbados and this is my point example, [laughter] which I shouldn't have. Yeah. Ever.

>> Now, what if it was all you have to do is go to the uh the reception? Does that

change it? >> No. No ceremony, only reception.

>> No one's ever asked me this before.

Yeah, >> that does change it. >> Yeah, because I think I don't have to sit through the ceremony, all the formalities, >> straight to the drink, straight >> straight to the wedding cake. >> Yeah. Well, my followup question is, is there rum at the reception?

>> There better be. It's in Barbados.

>> Then I'm in. There you go. Columbia, South Carolina is where we go next.

Kevin is waiting. Kevin, how can we help?

>> Yes. Um, I've got a scenario here and

we're trying to figure out. We bought a home um one year ago. We put 10% down at

7%. We then sold our other home and we

have now uh we have one year they said

you can recast. We have 200,000 cash right now in the bank that we're looking at putting at recasting or refying the current to bring down the mortgage, get rid of PMI, all that good stuff. But in our new home, we're also looking at poss uh maybe 50,000 cash aside because there's certain things we'd like to do home improvements like a retaining wall, a fence, additional car parking spots, things like that.

>> Okay. Uh let me just make sure I understood it back. You talked really fast. I think I got all of it. There were two houses. One sold. Now there's only one. The most expensive one. You want to put 200,000 possibly to recast it so the payment's lower. Did I catch it?

>> Um, we have we there was two. Yes, there was two. We sold one and now Exactly.

Now we want to recast possible out of that 200k. >> But you're thinking maybe hold back 50 for the for the improvements.

>> We're kind of thinking hold back 50 because we have some home improvement ideas, but we want to make sure we don't overbuild the neighborhood. I want to know about do I you know do I get this money back or is it better to put it into recasting the the current house?

>> So tell me well it really most of this

rides greatly on the recast. Um when you

if you put the whole 200,000 on the recast is it going to get your monthly payment where it needs to be [snorts] 25% of your takehome?

Uh it currently is already. It's uh we

our mortgage is currently within 25% of our take home pay currently >> already. So then what's the purpose of recasting? Why [clears throat] wouldn't you just put it apply it towards the principal and just [music] pay down the house?

>> Um well they said if you recast is what we were told. If you recast within a year you can put that money and it'll it'll lower the month the mortgage payment as well.

>> It will pay less interest. It will but less money will go to the principal. [music] So what by you doing that you're kind of shifting everything towards um if you just had a smaller payment. The smaller payment means less goes to the principal and the the less goes to interest or the same amount goes to interest. So you're robbing your principal payment at that point. So that's why I wouldn't do that.

I would just [music] apply it to the principal if you want to pay the mortgage down.

>> [music]

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All

right. Uh, want to do a quick followup, Jade. I know you wanted to say a little bit more about our last caller. Uh, to do some clarification.

apply a principal payment extra payment and just lower the the the principal, the entire balance completely. He wanted to recast it, which basically what it does, let's pretend he bought the house for 400,000. I think he told us uh it was at 7%. When you recast it, the the

the lump sum would go directly to there.

And so they're now they're re recasting

the balance at the new the new amount.

So it' be at 200,000, but the terms are still the same. So, it' still be at 7%.

It'd still be on a 30-year mortgage. So, I suggested what I suggested, which is only put it towards the principal. Don't recast because the point here is to pay

the thing off fast. Like, we want you to pay the mortgage off. If he recasts it, since the terms are the same, it's still on a 30-year or a 15ear, whatever he had, and it's not going directly in that way. So, if he if he wanted to, and I'm

not saying that this is the best thing, uh, if he did recast it, um, and then he

[clears throat] still paid the mortgage as though it was the old mortgage, >> that could kind of be a move. But really, the only benefit there I could see is like, I don't know, it's almost like a contingency, like if I fell on hard times, my payment would be lower.

Um, but that's not really the Ramsay way. The better way here is to go go for the principal, go for paying off the mortgage, saving time. Time is of the essence so you can take that money and later on use it to build uh other types of wealth. >> Love it. All right. Great clarification there. Uh the number to jump in825-5225.

Kate is up next in Newark, New Jersey.

Kate, how can we help?

>> Yes. Hi. Um Ken and Jade, first of all,

I want to say thank you so much for taking my call. I'm nervous. Don't worry, we we are on your team. We're going to take good care of you.

>> Thank you so much. Um you're my favorite duo, by the way. I listen to you guys every day. >> Well, now we're going to be extra nice now. Look what you've done.

>> What's going on? How can we help?

>> My question is, um so real quick, I'll

just give you my question and then whatever details you need, just ask. Uh, the question I have is, um, I don't know

if we'll be able to continue making house payments because my husband is a spend thrift and we can't keep up with our monthly minimums due to how much debt he's racked up in the year that we've had. This is um that we've bought our house and now we are paycheck to paycheck or house for.

>> What What has he racked up?

>> $12,000 in credit card debt in a year.

>> Okay. What is the minimum payment on that 12,000?

>> So, it's all different um it's six different actually seven different credit cards. >> Okay. >> The monthly minimums Yeah. are about $715 a month. >> Wow. >> For all of them. >> What's your mortgage payment? >> Yeah.

>> 3,138.

>> What's your combined incomes?

>> So, I'm not currently working. Um well,

I'm a stay-at-home mom. He makes net

140,000 a year.

>> Okay. And is is he feeling this weight?

We know you are. Is he feeling this?

I don't think he's feeling it as much as

uh he's definitely not feeling it as much as I am, but I laid it all in front of him basically to show him like how like everything on paper >> and um he kind of got it I think but

this was back in November and at the time he had agreed he loves Clara and Suzle and um I don't I hate them but uh

he thinks that it's fine to pay the due

the paying four things um because no

interest or whatever. So um he agreed in

November not to spend on those for

Christmas gifts and I thought that we were on the same page. He had agreed and come to find out he actually did use claret and suzle and he actually just finished paying off the last payment this past week but we almost weren't able to make our car payment. we had to

um try to get scrged around for cash to

pay for our car payment. >> So, this was very recent and and I I want to get Jade involved here, but I'm just kind of gathering some more information here.

>> What was his What were the comments?

What has the conversation been? We know what happened November. Now, here we are just the other day scrambling around for quarters, if you will, to make a car payment. What was the conversation then?

>> Um He's it's almost like he doesn't really

want to have the conversation like he it's almost like he's digging his head in the sand. He doesn't want to face the consequences. >> Okay. >> And a little backstory. Um he is a recovering alcoholic. >> Okay. >> Um and I I really truly believe that the spending it's because >> yeah, >> it's what's based >> it's a replacement >> that changes the uh equation. Um Jade, I

know you've got thoughts. So, I want you to weigh in here for her.

>> Well, I mean, definitely the reveal of the past alcoholism plays a big role in this. I wonder would he be open? Have

you said that to him that you're this is your fear and this is how you're perceiving this? >> I have said it to him. We actually are in marriage counseling. We're in individual counseling. >> Great. Okay, good. >> Which thankfully is covered by our insurance. We have He has very good insurance with his job and we are in marriage counseling. But so far it

we're working on addressing it, but it's like >> slowgoing. >> It's not getting anywhere. It's getting Yeah, it's very slowgoing.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, we can talk about numbers, but this really is just beyond a numbers equation. I mean, just really quickly, I can tell you >> uh your mortgage is 35% of your take-home pay, it seems like, which is already a little high.

I mean, it's nothing to like freak out over, but when you add 715 bucks a month of credit card debt, yeah, you're going to feel it.

um, it's going to be a problem. Now, I don't know if you've suggested this in in counseling. I'm trying to put myself in your shoes. If I were in your shoes, what I would bring to my counselor is this.

I would [snorts] say I believe um clearly my husband has struggled with addiction. I think that he has found a way to not use alcohol anymore, but I feel like it's shifted to spending.

>> Do I had a question about that anyway? It's a very good point. Do you handle the finances or does he? So, interesting

you say that. I have been asking to do

the budgeting and everything as a partnership together. So far, he has not really wanted to do it. He just wants me to do it. But at the same time, >> I think that's good. >> He just recently he just recently put

his direct deposit in to the joint account. Up till now, literally last week, >> um it hasn't been. So, he finally put in a joint account and he he's kind of like washed his hands of it. He's like doesn't want any He left it all to me.

>> That is great news. Now, I want to jump in really quick because our time is limited. Practically speaking, do you both have car payments or is it just one? I thought I heard car payment.

>> It's just it's just his. Yeah, mine is paid off. >> Okay. Cuz I'm wondering what you can start to do since he's taking the hands off.

So, we need to look at selling that car. That's going to be a tough conversation. But I'm looking at what are some quick things that I get it. I get it.

That's why I acknowledged may not be the right one to go after right now. But with you now taking over the finances, what can you do? Can you cancel the credit cards? If your name's on them, you cancel the credit cards today.

Let's make this a real pain for him. Uh Jade, I want to bring you back into that. You got about a minute. What would you practically do if you were her?

>> I would I would make it more formal. I love that he shifted it that way, but I would almost, like I said, with your counselor, decide the best way to do this. He doesn't need access to the money on his own. He just doesn't because he's proven that he can't control spending.

And that is an addiction.

Especially, it looks like it in his case. And so, I would take a little tougher stance on that and say, "Okay, I when you say I'm in charge of the money, that means I'm going to distribute in the way that I'm going to distribute it, which this is only for a season until you can get well again, and then we'll be really 50/50 on this again." And I would take a pretty strong stance on that because your family uh their safety is at stake and so is yours.

[music]

[music]

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gave you all collective indigestion, but you got to do it. Uh, you got to get a free checklist, by the way, and guides from us. And this is at ramseyolutions.com/taxes.

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Edwin is up next in Minneapolis. Edwin,

how can we help?

Hey guys. Hey. Uh, thanks for taking my call. Um, I am in the middle of maybe

deciding to make a huge career change.

As in, I currently am self-employed on

my family dairy farm. I own all the cows

and rent the land, but I'm not sure if that's where I'm supposed to be. and

I am looking to maybe go do a uh change

of career to firefighting out west or

something along that line.

>> Okay, I'm going to step in here, Edwin, and I'm going to take a guess. Tell me if I'm wrong that you absolutely know

deep down that you're not supposed to be running the dairy farm. True or false?

Yeah, I don't I can't answer that specifically.

>> Why? >> I do I do I do love the animals and

it is maybe something to do with the fact that I'm the youngest and I sort of felt that I was supposed to take it.

>> But, >> okay, let me reward it a different way.

[laughter] >> Okay, let's say that might happen. Let's say that right now in my ear.

Kelly, who's producing our show today, she says, "Hey, Ken, we just got a call from this uh fire department out west, and they need someone like Edwin. They got a great job for him right now." Edwin, how do you react to that emotionally?

>> Uh, well, I couldn't take it right now.

I I >> I didn't ask you that, Edwin. You got it. Hold on a second. Hold on. Hold on.

Hold on. >> I would want to take it. >> Okay. What would your heart do?

I'm pretty excited. >> Okay, it's a simple question. I understand we have realities, but this is why you called the show today and so

so Okay, so let's keep playing this out.

Your heart would be going crazy.

>> But you'd have to unwind some things on the dairy farm. True or false?

>> Right. I would have to figure out a way to keep it going or make sure that it's not just going to fall apart. >> How would you do that? Keep it high level. Don't get in the weeds. What would you have to accomplish for that to be the fact?

>> Find somebody to run it or create a partnership with my brothers that are still in the area, but they would have to sacrifice to do that as well. And then all of a sudden it becomes about Edwin and I'm not sure that I like doing that to my family. >> Okay. Is this entire business on your

shoulders? Did somebody tell you that

>> it owns the land? I am in charge of

everything, running it. I own the cows.

Like, I'm in charge of the incomes, expenses, everything is on my shoulders.

>> Okay. But that's not your dad's business. Your dad owns the land. The land is valuable whether there's milk cows on there or not. True or false?

>> Yep. >> Okay. True. >> So, if you shut the thing down, okay, this is horrible, but it's going to make my point. If you get hit by a bus today,

>> dad's land, >> Dad doesn't lose a nickel on the land.

True or false?

Oh, that would be true. >> So, whose business is the dairy business?

>> The dairy business is mine 100%.

>> And Edwin doesn't want to be in the dairy business, but you've calculated this thing and you've you've tied your

responses to the fact that if you go chase your dream and do what you really want to do and fight fires out west that you're somehow letting the family down.

But best I can tell by your words, Jade, if I missed something. >> I don't think so. >> That this is actually your business to decide what you want to do with. True or false? >> True.

>> So, it feels like Edward >> would uh would [laughter] definitely cut my cut me off probably from my family as

far as my dad my dad would not be happy.

My dad would not be happy. He spent his whole life building this thing up.

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You just told us that the dairy business is yours. >> He just has the land. He's just been offering the land.

>> Yeah. I mean, like, he he literally sold

me the cows and like nobody else on the

family is technically at home right now.

>> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. >> And he's Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Edwin, stop. You paid your dad a

fair price for the cows.

>> I did. Yeah, >> he didn't give them to you.

>> No, he didn't. I I got to tell you, I'm not sure that you're correct. I think you're scared to death to leave your family and you've concocted some drama that may not be true. Is that possible?

>> That that is possible. >> Well, I'm going to tell you, >> I'm working with my brothers on this, but >> Well, what do they say about all this?

>> Well, they're both on the fence of you should go, and then there's some that say you should stay home. And >> all right, I think the time has come on this call. You got >> All right, Edwin. I think the time has come on this call >> to where you need to hear a different voice. >> And my kids, I could tell them everything, the gospel truth, great wisdom, and they'd not listen to me. And a coach or a teacher tells them, and they listen. So, I'm checking out because I've already walked you through.

I didn't even tell you anything. I walked you into a corner. You're terrified. [laughter] You're terrified. And you're letting your fear all of a sudden become ration uh the rationale for you to not leave.

I'm going to bring Jade in who's been listening the entire time. She's the voice you need to hear. Jade, I I give you the balance of my time.

>> I really think that you are well. Yeah, Ken Ken has nailed it. I'm only going to reiterate what he said. I think you're well within the bounds to to to pursue

firefighting. >> I think it is your business. Therefore, you get to decide what happens with it.

It sounds like you know what that would look like or what that could look like.

And it's okay. I I also if you are

correct in what you think might happen as far as the reactions of your family, they get to react and you can't control what their reaction is. And it's not your job to control what their reaction may or may not be. You can speculate about it, but you can't control it. And you certainly can't let someone else's

reaction of what they think you should

be doing with your life stop you.

>> You can't cry over spilled milk.

>> Very true. >> Okay. Yeah, that's right. You can't do that. >> I mean, I've been sitting there. I mean, what are we doing here? Uh, I think mom and dad will be proud. I think the fact that your brothers told you to do it, and and here's the other side of this, Edwin, and we've said this a million times on this show. If you don't do this, >> I know. I've heard it. >> Okay. Well, then you know what I'm about to say. If you don't do this for the

reasons that you've given us, you're going to end up resenting people >> that you care so deeply about >> that. You by the way just made an assumption about >> or what >> I will regret myself for not taking a leave. >> Well I went ahead of that the resentment becomes becomes of the regret. So regret

hits us first and then we start looking for places to put the blame on >> and we put the blame on the family members who actually never had the power as Jade so beautifully said. So my point is I jumped ahead. Resentment comes after regret.

>> Yeah that's very true. Listen, man. Eat more chicken. Sell them dairy cows.

[laughter] >> Let's go. I got no puns left. That's all I got. I only had two, [laughter] >> but I think you got to do it, Edwin. And I'm as serious as I can be for a moment.

You're a young man who has a who has a feeling in your heart. The reason I started off this call, and Jay's heard me do this 100,000 times, and I do it privately, too. The test is always the heart test. You cannot put enough value

on how your heart and your body feel.

And if anybody's ever felt it, the call to something or a draw to something, it is undeniable. Is it not Jade?

>> It's you can't you can't stop it. You cannot stop it. >> So what say you what say you is who

cares if your dad has a cow over you selling this business? [laughter] That's it. >> You You got to move on. >> Oh yeah. Look what you did. See, I had nothing left and you came [laughter] in over the top.

>> The puns are flying. >> The puns are flying >> because the truth is so clear. It's time to move forward. And by the way, this is your life.

>> Okay. It's your life. You got to make the calls for your life, man. And and boy, you're going to go out there and you're going to do some great work out west.

So, >> I hear the excitement already in his voice. >> I too. I feel like you feel a little lighter, right? [laughter] >> Yeah.

No, it's definitely. Listen, if you want to keep one of the cows, keep one of the cows. I think it'd be so cool to have a pet dairy cow. They're great looking animals.

>> Keep the ones with the bangs, the bangs in their face. They're >> They were always my favorite cows at the fair. >> Oh, yeah. They're sweet.

>> The dairy cows. >> And here you are making a sandwich [music] out of it.

[laughter]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside the phone number is88255225.8825-5225.

Toby's up next in Phoenix, Arizona.

Toby, how can we help?

>> Well, I have um I've built up some debt.

I'm 62 years old and about ready to claim social security, but um I have about $79,000 in debt. And I got a

letter from the consolidating to consolidate it by stopping your credit cards.

And so that was the first question. I've I've kind of listened over and look and looked at the show. It doesn't you know

like that's a bad idea from what I hear you guys saying or is it a bad idea or I mean and I own three houses.

>> Okay. Tell us about one of those houses.

>> I'm going to go short answer likely yes.

I I [laughter] short answer yes. Debt consolidation it is not the answer to this situation. It rarely I would never suggest it as the answer. The reason is what it's doing is something you could do, which is not pay your debts, pull the money, and then when they're ready to settle, now you can make a settlement. That's all they're doing, and they're just doing with with fees attached. So, you don't need help doing that. Um, tell us about the three houses because your your solution is likely there.

>> Well, I the thing is I have renters and I rented for forever and to sell one of

the houses, I'd have to be putting a family out. >> That's true. and they really aren't in that position. And I've I so far I haven't been able to do it and and and I have problems there just cuz they they have five kids. >> Are your prices competitive or are you giving them some sort of a deal that they wouldn't be able to get elsewhere?

>> I I I'm probably very I'm very low on on

that house that I would sell the other ones. >> Let's go to the other two. We'll set let's set that one aside. We appreciate your heart. What about the other two houses? Give us the numbers.

>> Um, one house rents for $1350.

Um, it would sell for 170,000.

>> How much would you make on that?

>> Uh, oh, I don't owe anything on the houses. >> Okay. So, it's all it's all profit.

>> All right. That's house number two. Let's go to house number three.

>> Um, house number three is a it's basically a rental apartment, but it

it's a home. Um, but it's not very big.

How much is it worth if you sold it today? How much would you pocket?

>> It's on my property on my house where

[snorts] my own house. >> Okay. >> So, I I couldn't sell that part of it.

You know what I'm saying? It's just a spare house. >> Okay. So, and you just happened to figure out a way. >> And just just for the heck of it, what is the house that the family of five or the family of seven with five kids, how much is that house worth?

um down down the street in one um one

other house went for 170.

>> Okay. So, this is this is a no-brainer to me. Ken, >> can I ask a question before you because I know what you're going to do. I just am curious for a guy who's got two cash

houses.

Why do you have $79,000 in debt?

>> I spent too much.

>> But you paid off these other houses, right? Well, I paid off the other houses a while ago. Basically, I paid cash. I I

turned in my 40 or my my retirement when

it dropped so much in 2008. I got upset

that they took all that money. I lost a lot. And so, I took the rest of it, paid the fees, and bought these houses.

>> Oh gosh. So, you have nothing in a 401k?

>> Oh, I have nothing. No.

>> Understood. So, your [laughter] income is these houses. your income will be uh

tell then then go back and tell me again what's the rent from house number one with the family of five. What what's your rent on that? What do you take?

>> 11,100.

>> And and what goes away in in in fees and upkeep? What what do you actually pocket as profit from that house?

>> Um there's not much fees and haven't

been much fees and upkeep over the last couple years. Well, I mean, certainly you take >> Certainly you take money out in case the AC goes out or in case it needs a repair.

>> Uh, I'm a plumber.

>> Okay. >> So, I kind of fix things.

>> I own a pl a plumbing unit.

>> For round numbers, for round numbers, I'll use the 1100, but I want to encourage you to know what the numbers are less upkeep because that's going to give you a clearer picture of how well this is doing. Um, tell me tell me the rent on number three, the one that's on your property.

>> Uh, a,000.

>> A,000. So, so far we've got 2100. And

what's it take? Are you going to be drawing? You said you're going to draw social security here soon. What will that be? >> Yes. Um, 2,000.

>> 2,000. Do you think you can hold on until later so you can get a higher amount?

>> Um, no. I I've already signed up for it and I don't know

some health problems. I'm not sure. I want to wait. >> Are you currently employed? >> Okay. [snorts] >> I work for myself. I own a plumbing business. >> Okay, great. >> Locally. >> What do you pay yourself out of the plumbing business?

>> Um I I I basically don't know. I pay the I

pay for the plumbing parts and the plumbing bills and then I pay my taxes at the end of the year. >> Are you busy straight checking? Are you busy? >> Um, I work as I work I work as much as I want every day. Okay. >> I don't push it as hard as I used to work 8 to 10 hours a day.

>> Well, you got no you got no retirement.

You got no retirement. So, you need to sell at least one of these houses and clear up the debt and then Jade walk you through. You've got to start reinvesting in now. >> Yeah. So, I mean, here's the thing. We need real numbers. I have a feeling obviously you don't have a budget. What I'm gathering is you're bringing in somewhere around 4,000 to 4,100 a month plus whatever plumbing you do. We don't know what that amount is. Um the equation we need is how much does it cost for you to run your lifestyle minus

the debt cuz we're going to pay the debt off. So we need to find out how much does it take to keep the lights on, keep the water going, keep food on the table, keep the vehicles running. Um if it's 4,100, you're okay and and you can make

this work. Uh what I would suggest is just what Ken said. We're going to sell house number two and we're going to take the, you know, 79 of the 100,000 and

we're going to pay off the debt and then you're going to take 90,000 and I would say keep 3 to 6 months of expenses out. Keep that in a high yield savings account and then the rest you're going to plop it in some nice mutual funds. And if you if you can after this call uh go to ramseolutions.com uh/smartvevestor I believe is what it is. And I I want you to get with a Smart Investor Pro because investing some of this money is going to be helpful for you.

It's not going to be the break free point for you.

I think at this point for you keeping these paid for um uh real estate is

going to help you live. Like you can't afford to sell these just yet. So keeping the rent on them is probably going to be a big a good move for you.

And if you get to the point where you can no longer be a landlord, you're selling those and you're popping those into a 401k as I'm sorry, into a Roth IRA as well.

>> Really? So, you don't think you should sell one to clear the 79?

>> If he sells it, he doesn't have any income.

>> I told him to No, he's got No, no, no. I told him to sell number two. >> Okay, good. Oh, okay. >> I told him to sell I'm talking about the other two. The one that's on his property. He can't sell that one anyway.

>> I agree. But I would tell you the one with a family of seven with five kids, appreciate your heart, >> but they need to at least be paying market rent.

>> That's true. And then at the same time, if you need to unload that >> to take care of yourself, you can give them plenty of advanced notice to where you're not kicking them out.

>> That's true. That's true. >> You can't just be the, you know, whatever you've fashioned yourself to be this hero here. Um, it doesn't make you a bad guy. there's a way to go about it in a way that does not, you know, make life for them really uncomfortable and stressful. But that's something to be thinking about. And I agree, you need to sit with a Smart Ver Pro tomorrow and begin to plot out your future.

[music]

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[music]

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>> All righty. Today's question comes from Ashley in South Dakota. She says, "Jade,

Jade mentioned on a recent show that her husband saves his personal fund money out of their budget to make larger purchases. What are the logistics of that? How and where is allocated money

set aside and tracked so he knows how much he has in that fund?"

>> Oh, I love this spent each month. Okay.

>> And I know I know how he does this.

>> You do. You might need to You might could take this part, Kim. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. I I would just go out on the limb and just say this is what Sam and I do. Okay, this is how it goes in the Warshaw household, you know. Don't at

me. Okay, so on the budget, we have a

certain amount of money. Um, fun money.

One line is for Jade and one line is for Sam. It's the same amount for each of us. It's there every single month. And it used to be for the longest if you didn't use it, you'd lose it.

It's like if you don't use it, it's going to roll into savings. It's going to roll. It's going to go somewhere. So, you may I always use mine, but Sam was really bad about using it.

And so, he finally was like, I'm going to pull this money out and just stack it up because he's the type >> a he has expensive taste, Ken Coleman. I know. And it's not, believe me, >> it likes things that one month of fun money can't buy.

>> And that's fine. So, he stacks it up.

I'll be honest with you. I don't know where he puts it. >> You don't? >> It's somewhere in the house.

>> I totally know where he does. >> Where is it? >> It's in a drawer. It's in the sock drawer, >> I think.

So, >> okay. >> Don't quote me on the socks, >> but uh he and I were hanging out recently. I think this may have this came up on the show. He pulled off a great surprise for the fan.

He did. And I don't want to reveal stuff I'm not allowed to reveal, but he and I were talking about it. I knew about it ahead of time. And he told me, he was like, "This is this is really an expensive surprise." And I said, "Dude, you're making memories." And he did.

>> And but it was because he stacks it.

>> Yeah. >> In that drawer, wherever the drawer is.

And then he was like, "Oh, >> it's months and months, >> months and months." Sam has always been a squirrel since I've met him. He He stacks cash. That is what he does. I'm the spender. Well, anyway, uh yeah, he stacks it up. I'm sure as far as the question, how does he know how much he has? I think he's just counting it. Like I think >> he revisits it every once in a while.

>> Uhhuh. And >> I bet you he counts it when he adds to it. >> Yeah, he probably does. >> He has a ballpark idea.

Yeah, he he probably keeps a ballpark idea in his head and when he feels like he's getting close, he probably counts it. Now, I Jade could care less. I'm telling you right now, >> I don't know how much money he has over there. I don't care if I went home today and said, "I want to know how much money you have.

Show me where it is." He would do all of those things. So, it's not even a question. Um, >> and I know like he was saving up. He wants to buy a golf cart.

He was saving up to do that. Yeah. He saved up and bought the He and he can buy whatever he wants. He saved up and bought a real life replica Ninja Turtle suit from the the movie Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles back in the '90s.

>> A lot. >> Yeah.

>> Legit >> that an actor would have worn on the movie. >> Yeah. It's on display in his office.

>> It's unbelievable. >> It's pretty crazy. >> But what was great is like, and this is a great story because he said to me the night, he goes, "Do you think this is insane?" And he told me how much the thing was going to cost. And I go, "Do you have the cash sitting in your drawer?" He goes, "Yeah." and then some.

I was like, "What are we talking about?

>> This is a done deal." >> Because it was months and months of a line item that stacked up and then it

was also something that made memories. I I literally was like, "What are we talking about? You have to do it." >> Yes. Great. >> And he did. So anyway, that's how he does it. >> That's how he does it. >> It's not real scientific. >> And I think uh I think it is on par with

how fun money should be spent. Like who says it has to be all it's not a FSA.

It's >> your personalities are different. So, if we mean it and we put it in the budget, then it's yours to do and you spend yours every month. >> I uh I I I have a little bit saved.

>> All right. Let me ask a question, and you can you can uh choose not to answer, but I think America would like to know.

>> Give us an example or two of something you have recently bought with your fund money. >> Oh boy. Uh >> whether whether you saved or you went all in on something very small and reasonable, >> I don't remember the last thing I bought. It was probably some clothing or shoe item. Like it's usually clothes or clothes or shoes. [laughter] Okay. Well, there it is. >> But I'm about to buy a hair dryer. It's $500 and I saving up for it. Yeah. It's called the Rev Air and it's amazing.

>> Is this one that you sit under the 1970s? >> No. It works the opposite. It works like a vacuum. So, it sucks your hair in and

then it you don't like there's no tension. It sucks your hair into the tube. Sorry, what I'm doing with my hands. >> It dries inside. >> Yeah. And then it comes out dry and straight. And you can set it on settings. So if you have your curly hair, it keeps your hair curly. If you have straight, it straightens it out. >> Does it Does the owner's manual recommend that you do that with another adult present? No. Your emergency contact. It sounds a little risky to me.

The way you described sucking in your hair >> and what happens if it like takes your ear off? >> It won't. It's it's it's gentle. It's gentle. But that's what I'm saving my fun money for. So the point here is guys, >> you need you need you need fun money on

your budget number one if you're beyond baby step two and three and it's okay to

save it up. >> Yeah, >> I think so. >> Yeah, I think so. >> Would you do you support this message? >> Oh, 100%. And I I support the fact that you're taking on a somewhat physically risky haird dryer. >> Yes, I promise it's all right. >> I I'm a little concerned about it, but as long as again Sam is around, >> he's around. He'll be okay. He can help out [laughter] if something goes ary.

Melissa is up next in Chicago. Melissa, how can we help?

>> Hi, I have a question about a student loan debt, but it is not my student loan. Um, my daughter is 27 and she's

been graduated for a few years now, and I know her loans are in forbadance.

And while she was growing up, I was a single mom. I'm still single, but I had one income and I wasn't able to help her save a lot for college. So, I'm in a better position now, and I really want to come up with a plan to help her pay these off, but make it motivating for her to do so. So financially, you know,

her being an adult, me being a mom, like where should I go with that? Like offering her money or I just don't know how to quite make her cuz she hasn't been paying on them because she's a teacher and she's in the low income category right now. So she's kind of been burying her head in the sand and I've been listening to you for like four months now and student loans, student loans. And I feel like I skipped over that baby step because I wasn't able to do it >> at the time and now I can help a little bit.

>> Well, I love that you're >> She hasn't asked for any help, might I add. She's never asked for any help on them. >> I mean, I love the heart that you would even want to help. I think that's very sweet and and very kind. My first order of business it would be to determine if you're in a position to help. So, how old are you? >> 47. [clears throat] >> Okay. And tell us about your financial snapshot. Do you have any debt?

>> I have no debt. >> No debt. My home. >> Great. and emergency fund saved up

>> six months. >> Love that for you. And you're actively investing the 15%.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And so I mean >> I'm going to jump in real quick because we only have about 30 or 40 seconds. The question I have is is how much income above and beyond your expenses do you have flexibility with every month?

>> Uh I have probably 1500.

>> Good. >> Flexible. And that's what you would spend or what would you give her? >> I travel a lot. I travel a lot. So, >> hey, no shame in your game. [laughter] So, tell Jade what are you thinking?

What? Tell Jade what you think you're going to contribute. What what you've thought about. >> I was thinking I say, "Hey, let's get going. Whatever you put down, I will

match 50%. I want you to have some skin in the game, but you need to start." She's got a little >> I like the matching thing because it incentivizes her to make payments as well. My only caveat on this is you must

make the payment directly to the debt.

We're not going to just give her the money. >> Okay. Okay. So, get a hold of all of her information to do that directly.

>> Yep. And she makes the payment first and you make the payment second. >> Oo. >> Okay. >> That way that way it's it's on the up and up. >> That's a pro tip there. I like that.

That's pro tip. >> That is that's [laughter] that's why she's in that chair there. I love that.

Hey, Melissa, you're a good mom. Thanks for calling. Good. >> I think Jade gave you some great advice.

I would walk that out to a tea. [music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is.

I'm gonna save money or I'm gonna get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win.

And our Every Dollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, Every Dollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket, helping you stay on track all year long.

So, don't just wish your money works out.

Download the Every Dollar Budget app and get started right now for free.

[music]

All right, let's go to Lisa in Las Vegas. Lisa, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call today.

>> You bet. What's going on? >> So, I have a So, I have a question. I've been This is I've been remarried. This is my second marriage. Same for him.

We've been married 4 years. And he still refuses to combine finances no matter what comes at us. Um, he was recently laid off after being at a company for 25 years, um, about four months ago. And

after that, he still refuses to combine finances. So, I don't know. My question is how do I move forward despite that decision?

>> So, first things first, if he's not making an income, how is he living if he refuses to combine finances?

>> Um, he's getting unemployment um in

recently. I did not know he was gambling. Um, like >> Well, I didn't know this till he um won 50,000 like 30 days ago.

>> Uh-huh. >> So, he's living off of that. [snorts] What kind of gambling are we talking about? >> Um, he bets I guess online for the football game. >> Sports betting, man, that's a problem.

>> Okay, that makes this make more sense.

When you were first talking, um, Lisa, I had the thought I thought people who don't want transparency are generally trying to hide something. Not always, but a lot of times that's especially if they're like adamant about it, >> then they gaslight you and say, "Well, I don't trust you." >> Yeah. Okay. So, this is a big deal. Any type of um I I don't know if it's an

addiction. I mean, gambling in and of itself, you know, [snorts] it's it's it can be fine to place a bet on something obviously, but it seems it

seems like there could be more than meets the eye to his gambling simply because it's been used as a front to keep you out of his business financially. [gasps] So you >> may be say again >> I feel like he's not I feel like he's not gambling like thousands and thousands got lucky this time.

>> Uh based on the income that he makes and he still pays all the bills. So like about a year ago I was like you know what if you're not going to save I'm done paying any bills. >> How do you know he's not taking out debt?

>> I check his credit score.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So there is some transparency.

Yeah.

>> Okay. Um, what do you think? You know him better than Ken and I. What do you think is the reason that he doesn't want to combine finances? Is it he got burned in his previous marriage?

>> Not necessarily. I don't think um I don't think so. It just didn't work out.

Um he just says he doesn't trust me. And I just want to give you like a little glimpse of what my financial situation looks like. When I came into marriage, um I had just finished building a triplex and since getting married, we I've paid it off since it was pre-marriage. So, I get income off of that.

I work two jobs just because I I like it, not because I have to. So, it's not like >> You're a hard worker. Is there anything relationally that would give him reason not to?

If there is, it's just something that he has to work through. Not necessarily something I've given him to hold it against me. >> But do you know of anything that could be there? Even if it's his to work through, do you know of what that could be?

And again, you don't have to say it specifically, but >> how? >> Not really. I mean, I haven't done anything, you know, to make him feel insecure that I'm going to steal all the money.

What is the reason that you don't trust me? What What is it? What does he tell you?

>> Um because I wouldn't combine finances in the beginning. Um but I had no money in the beginning. So there was really nothing to combine.

>> Got it. >> So that was that leads me to did you

guys discuss this at all before you got married? >> So we did and we did open a checking account in the beginning to combine our finances. Um, but again, I wasn't putting any money in it because I had no money when we met. >> But he wanted to combine he wanted to combine finances when you got married.

>> Yeah, he was open to it. But little by little he started um putting his trick u his work money into another account and little by little like that communal account stopped being used. So, it's kind of like we went back. But every time I downloaded the apps, >> I want to go back to that because I feel like I heard a couple of different things.

First you said he doesn't trust me because in the beginning he wanted to combine finances and I didn't. Then it changed to well I would have but I didn't have any money. Then it changed to well he stopped putting money in the account. Right?

So already that story shifting has me >> has a question mark over my head over over what's really going on? How are you guys really talking about money? It how is he perceiving what you're saying in your actions? cuz I I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time >> perceiving it myself.

>> Agree.

the same time. You guys there you're like ships in the night a little bit.

There's some stuff going on. You both come from previous marriages. you you got to own it and go, we aren't on the same page and if we don't get on the same page, this is gonna fall apart. So, now's a good time. Doesn't sound like things are completely on fire, but um

yeah, you guys just you just don't sound like you're doing marriage the way that it's supposed to be done. And that's just like, hey, we're actually trying.

Doesn't mean we're perfect, but we're trying to be on the same page. And I just don't feel like that's happening. and and I think you need an impartial professional to help you get there.

>> Yeah, I would agree with that. I don't think that this is um a numbers or really a money conversation, per se.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I And and again, I think there's a bigger issue here and I put you on hold because I want Jay to teach to this.

>> This is a good example of why we talk about combining incomes when you get married. It it just So, let's go back. This is it's almost like a refresher. Why do we teach it and and

how does this call kind of play it out to where we go this is the potential pitfalls even though this is not I don't think a crisis yet. >> Yeah. So I mean there's the relational benefit then there's the actual financial benefit, right? Financially it makes sense. Two incomes are better than one. You know two heads are better than one. You go further faster together, right? That's just kind of like the the headline version of that. I don't think anybody would really argue with that.

Now, of course, much of those um isms

matter with who you married, right? You don't if you married a ball and chain, you ain't going anywhere fast, right?

So, [laughter] there's part I understand that. I want to know I want you to know I know that. Um so, marrying the right person obviously matters to that equation. Uh then there's the relational side, which is why marrying the right person matters. The relational side guys is when you can combine finances that means that there's a level of trust and a level of transparency in marriage that

is needed to function properly. You can't function properly in marriage with

someone you don't trust. You can't function properly in marriage with someone you wouldn't be willing to give your passcode to that you wouldn't be willing to let them see all of your purchases. Because then you have to ask yourself what why am I hiding this? Why

am I hiding this specifically from them?

Why do they feel the need to hide from me? There it unlocks so many questions

um within the the relationship, which can be a good thing in this case because now we're starting to head on the path of >> because trust is a two-way street, >> right? >> And I love how you're pointing this out because I could be sitting in this situation going, "Okay, I don't trust you." And then if we dive into it with a therapist, you go, "Well, what are the reasons you don't trust?" And it's not something they've actually done. is something that has been done to you.

>> Possibly. It could be. >> Possibly. Yes.

>> It's not always that clean. >> But can we also talk about and I want to say this with the caveat. I've only been married one time. Sam Warshaw is my only husband.

But I do find >> Well, except for the Sam being my Stacy's my [laughter] wife. Yeah. >> Good clarity. I do find that on this show, we do find this a lot in second marriages.

Yeah. And it's almost like there's it's almost like there's a framework that we have for first marriages, but we don't carry that framework in, which is the all-in I'm in. I'm with this person.

of you and we are becoming one flesh that really is what marriage is about at the core >> I heard John Legend in the background around when you were saying all of me. I

can't do John Legend. Not even going to try. I was ready for it. >> No, it's terrible. I [music] would just butcher it. But great advice and that's

why we teach it. That's as plain of an explanation as you're going to get.

[music]

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

[music]

[music] All right, our scripture of the day comes from John 3 27. John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven." And our

quote from Ronald Reagan, "The American dream is not that every that every man must be level with every other man. The American dream is that every man must be free to become whatever God intends he should become." All right, our next person up is Zach in

Columbus, Ohio. Zack, how can we help?

>> Hi, how you doing? >> Good. How are you, sir? >> Longtime follower. Oh, pretty good. um longtime follower of the baby steps. Um I have purchased my dream car. I've owned it for about four years now, >> which is what I'm >> uh so it's a 2017 Dodge Challenger PA

edition >> with a manual transmission.

>> Okay. >> Um it's got only 16,000 miles on it. I bought it with 13,000. So I put about 3,000 four years.

>> Um treated as a, you know, Sunday driver type thing only in the summer. Um, it's the same year that my son was born, so kind of sentimental to me. >> Okay. >> Um, I'm on baby step four, five, and six, and I hate debt. I've gone through baby step two twice now. Um, first time

to pay off $140,000. Second time was $113,000.

Um, so all I'm left on is my mortgage and it's driving me crazy.

>> How much? >> So I took $144,000.

I just made a payment of 7,500 on Monday

from 152 down to that.

>> What is your anticipated payoff? Because I know you're thinking about it.

>> Uh 36 months.

>> Wow. Okay. Just around the corner.

>> So, what's your question?

>> Well, um you know, I bought this car with the intention of keeping it forever. I wanted my grandkids one day to find it in the barn type thing.

>> Okay. Um, but you know, I'm I'm

contemplating, you know, if I sold this car, I could pay off 21% of my remaining mortgage tomorrow.

>> What's that number? >> Um, so I could sell the car wholesale 31

and I could sell tomorrow. If I sold it retail uh to another buyer, probably could get about 35 for it, >> I got to tell you. >> So, >> I mean, if you want to sell it, you can.

I wouldn't.

>> Okay. You got you got two no sales here.

>> I mean, you sat you you you spent way more time explaining the car >> than the problem, which means you love the car. And then don't don't tell us it's on your child's birthday and all these other things and >> you want them to find it in the barn one day. >> Come on. >> I mean, here's the deal.

>> Are you financially responsible? Yes or no? >> Yes, sir. >> Are you on track to pay that house off in 36 months?

>> Yes, sir.

What are we doing here? >> Yeah. >> Like, here's the thing. You sell that car. Let's just play this out.

>> Let's fast forward. You sell the car and

let's say you uh split the difference.

You get 30,000 for it. Okay. And you put

that on the mortgage. How much time is that going to shave off the 36 months?

>> Eight months. >> Eight months. >> Oh, so not worth it.

>> Now, what do you think?

>> Yeah. And and that's where I'm stuck is is No, you're not. >> Then I get into thinking of, you know, if I do keep it forever, um, you know, just the brakes alone is $5,000 on this car. >> Okay. But let's >> I I want to I'm going to fight for this for a second because we're talking about

8 months or a a legacy. Cuz when you

said, "I want them to find it in the barn." >> Yeah. >> We're talking about that is a long expansive time. So, when you're really saying it's a it's it's a it's a question of time here. Which time matters more?

The eight months that it's going to shave off my debt-free journey or the years and years that I'm going to drive this car in the summertime with my kids, uh the the the thing that I hope to leave to them, right? And don't get me wrong, you're going to do what you want to do, and no one's going to be mad at you.

value of what you what you were intending to do.

>> Zach, I don't think you think you deserve it.

>> Yeah. And that that's one of the things with this car. It was uh you know, I graduated high school with a 1.8 GPA.

I've worked my way up from the ground up. Didn't go to college, got married at 19. Uh put my wife through college.

finally seemed to have made it and and bought my dream car that I never thought I could have and want to pass down to my kids and they love it. Looks like a Hot Wheels car to them. Um but but at the

same time, the security >> of a paid for house, no debt and but

you've already you're already on track for that. And if you really needed the money for that car, you could sell it tomorrow. It's an actual in this case, it is a bit of an asset.

>> Yes or no? >> Okay. Yes, sir.

>> Okay. So, I don't think you think you're good enough. You know how I know it? You said you said 1.8 GPA. You threw that

out there and it's a little bit of a badge of honor, but it still's got some shame attached to it. Yes or no?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, you don't think that you're good enough for that car and you think you're being irresponsible by having that car? You threw out the $5,000 brakes. Well, two responses to that.

Now, I'm going to fight for it. Yeah.

>> Two responses. Number one, you're a guy who's paid off over six figures in debt twice.

That guy, yes, sir, >> can put away a little bit of money each month, right, for car repairs, and you're driving that thing so little it's going to take twice as long to repair those brakes as it would if you were driving it every day. True or false?

>> That's true. Yes, sir. >> Stop making excuses to buy in to this

narrative about yourself that's incorrect. We're talking to a guy who's very responsible. We're talking to a guy who loves his kids and only he happens to love a really cool car. And I'll bet you don't have many hobbies.

>> No, I work. I come home and push drive

the car and that's about it. >> Then don't sell the car. Don't sell the car. >> We've already ruled.

>> There's no more discussion here.

>> Don't, you know, >> gavel to the table.

>> You and I have had many discussions today, but this brings up another really good discussion um with money. The thing

there there's something about money that it does. It scratches the itch of us feeling like, okay, I've done the responsible thing. I've made up for the past. I have, right? And you're trying to set um success there for your family or whatever it may be for you. The hard thing with money and the thing that we have to remember is it is a moral like it's just a tool out there. However, I'm going to say it has a magnetism to it.

There's a there's a quality that it always moves the goalpost further and further and it takes us with it. And it's like the goalpost goes there and like a magnet we go with it and then it goes there and we go further and you have to fight really hard to go well wait a second before it was a really great win to get debtree and then we were fine with like okay we'll pay out the house d and then if you don't fight that it pulls the joy of you living your

life because it pulls the goalpost a little bit further and you're like h I got to do that now and oh I got to do and you're stealing your own joy from yourself because you're letting that magnet pull you further. And you have you just have to be careful. Don't give me I'm Ken. I'm all for success.

I'm all for I am a very um >> I love achieving. So I'm not taking that away from anybody, but you just have to be careful. >> Yeah, I agree. And again, you talk a lot about in your in your last book, the bestseller, the emotions of money.

we can't forget that those emotions are based on experiences >> in our lives around money. So, we didn't we didn't unpack this with Zach, but I'll guarantee you the same patterns where he talked about I was a 1.8 GPA. I

got married at 19. Here's what I heard.

I did things the untraditional way. I did things in a way that no one recommends. Everybody says go to college, so therefore he wouldn't have gotten married. Maybe he was playing out a narrative that said

>> he was proud of himself and rightfully so, >> but he did everything the hard way.

Yeah. And and not the way that you're supposed to, right?

>> And so then you also go, okay, so there's those emotions which I touched on, but what we don't know is what kind of background he had. What was the environment like growing up in his house around money? How did people view money?

Did his dad, did he hear his dad go, "We'll never own a nice car." And so is there a level of And I don't know. I'm I'm projecting, but that's where you talk a lot about about the emotions around money, and we've got to master those. >> That's right. Yeah. We know this money touches every area of life. And because of that, when we teach something like the baby steps or even a really simple thing of saying, "Hey, for a little while you're going to sacrifice short-term for a long-term gain, right?

You might tell somebody to sell the car.

I might tell somebody to, you know, stop getting your nails done." And it's never just that. It's how could you tell me uh

how could you tell me to sell my car? Don't you know that when I grew up, you know, we only had one car and I had to walk to school and I didn't have gloves cuz my Right. and it we spin out to whatever we remember. So, just remember that money is very emotional.

>> By the way, she goes into great detail in her best-selling [music] book, What No One Tells You About Money. Can get it wherever books are sold. And remember this, folks, [music] there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 152. Stop Letting Fear Drive Your Money | November 27, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. So

excited to have you with us. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in.88255225

alongside the fabulous, the incomparable

Jade Warshaw. I am >> Thank you, my friend >> Ken Coleman. Just happy to be in her presence, folks. It's going to be good.

Fresh off of Orlando. We might talk a little bit about that. We'll see. Land Orlando, I can't speak now. And Chicago >> Shy Town. >> Uh couple live events. So much fun. We are feeling the juice from those two great crowds. Jessica is up in Arkansas.

Jessica, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good morning or good afternoon. I'm

sitting at just a tad bit under a million dollars in debt. um almost 200

of that is unsecured and we were

contemplating bankruptcy, but my faith

tells me that I should be paying all this and I know I should. Um and I'm just I guess I'm trying to see if there's a light at the end of the tunnel for us. >> There's always hope. >> Why don't you lay it out for us? Give us the whole 1 million in debt. What is

that? So 210 is unsecured personal loans. 83

um of that 210 is credit cards.

Um the house is 658.

>> Okay. >> And then there's two vehicles that um

there's two vehicles in there. One's almost paid off and then the other one is very very upside down.

>> Tell us the amounts. Uh the first and the second.

One is we owe 12,000 on it and the other

one is 59,000.

>> Oo. And how much do you know off the top of your head what that 59,0001 is worth?

>> Um 35 >> girlfriend. Okay. Um how much do you guys earn? It's you and your husband.

>> Yes. And he is in a job transition. Um

so we were making over 300. Now we're at

sitting at about 259 a year.

>> Okay, good. That's Listen, there's your light at the end of the tunnel right there. Is if you had told me that your shovel was 60 or 70,000, I'd be really

hurting with you. Um, but the good news is you have a really great shovel, uh, 259, and you said that's with or without

the job loss.

>> That's with the job loss. And his new job is going to be commission only. So, we haven't we don't know what that's going to look like yet. It could be amazing. >> I believe you make 259.

>> Um, we have some retirement funds in

there um from military and

>> disability. How much of that is the military? Like how much of that is your income and how much of that is like pension type stuff?

>> About half. >> Okay, good. That is really really really really really good news. Um, tell me about the 210,000. Was this a business loan? What What was that money for?

>> It was a little bit of everything, honestly. It was um some bad business

endeavors, me trying to be a serial entrepreneur. Okay. >> It was um some bad financial decisions

just in general. Um imposttor syndrome.

I took took a fantastic career

opportunity and I just kind of um

shopped my way through the imposttor syndrome until I got to therapy.

>> Okay. >> And uh so that was some bad financial decisions there, luxury shopping >> and then um I took over I took out two

personal loans to clear my husband's credit card debt um as well. So that's

what all that is. This is like classic mo money mo problems, right? This is you had a big income and so you could afford to make bigger mistakes, right? But really when we boil it down, Ken, this ratio-wise, it's the same call we always hear, right?

>> So that's the good news is, you know, you've got uh 260,000 in income right

now. It's going to go up exponentially.

And you got, you know, uh, I'm not counting the mortgage debt because when we're in baby step two, which is the step where you're paying off all the consumer debt, we really don't count the mortgage. So, can you tell me how much your monthly mortgage payment is so I can see what percentage of your life it is? >> 3938. >> Okay.

And so, that's going to be fine with what you're bringing home. So, that the mortgage is not the problem. And I just wanted to explain that to you. It's no more than 25% of your take-home.

So, that's not the issue. The problem is you feel overwhelmed because no matter how you slice it, if you if you tell somebody you have $300,000 of debt, that that's a lot, right? >> Yeah.

>> Yes. I actually did it probably about 20 years ago and I the only debt I carried up until three years ago was a mortgage and a car payment.

>> Um and I would usually pay the car payment, you know, double or whatever.

>> Yeah. >> Well, are you Okay, we get that. But let's talk about the now because your question is, is there a light at the end of the tunnel? The answer is yes, if you're willing to look for it. And so, are you done now? >> Are you done? Is this the last time you're ever going to do this?

>> Oh, for sure. >> Okay. >> I I can't do this again. >> Okay. So, um, in this situation, my take is I would try to get massive momentum, you know, and Jade can speak to this.

I'm going to give it back to her quickly because she and Sam paid off $500,000 in

debt. So, you got the perfect person to talk to today. But here's my only thing that I would say and I'll hand the baton back to you, Jade. I think they need a momentum >> play like a big one.

>> And so I would be attacking. I would try to get rid of the $59,000 car payment >> instantly. >> Like even if they go upside down, you can tell her how we do it, but I I I just think there needs to be a dramatic move. I don't know what your take is having done this yourself. >> No, I I agree uh with Ken 100%. you do

you need to do something that's going to shake you uh emotionally that's going to shake you financially that's going to almost like it's like the gun going off of the race, right? And I I agree with Ken. Um you guys need to pull together

and I mean with your income in a in a couple of short months, pull together that 24,000 that you're upside down on this vehicle and get out of it and you

know drive the $12,000 vehicle for a while. Figure out a plan to save up another you know couple thousand to get you a beater. And here's the thing. I'm gonna be 100% straight with you. You're

used to making a lot of money. When you get a beater, it's gonna mess with your ego big time because in your mind, you're going to go, "Wait a minute. I work too hard to be driving a car like this. Wait a minute.

Nobody at my work drives a car like this or nobody in my social circle." Right? Cuz you start hanging out with who you earn money with, right? And so, you're going to be the one and it is going to create questions and it's your choice whether you answer those questions. But I'm just letting you know right now, Jessica, that's going to happen.

And there's going to be an inongruency for a while with the how hard I'm working and how much money I'm earning versus the lifestyle I'm living. And I'm telling you that as a person who did that for quite a while. And that's going to be so good for your soul because that's what's going to cause you never to do this again. You're going to go, "Oh my gosh, I never want to feel that again." >> Seriously, I think it's right.

And you know, not trying to steal too much of your story, but I mean, Sam and I were hanging out last night, Jade T, and he reminded me, you guys had one car for a long time.

>> Yeah, but that was just cuz you adjusted to it. >> I did. >> But during the massive debt payoff, you guys were one car family. So, >> but you said it, Kim. We got used to it.

>> That's right. You you did fine.

>> You get used to anything, >> right? Right. You could be making multiple six figures and get used to whatever lifestyle you create. So >> yeah, I did. That's hilarious to me that you were here for a year before you got wheels. >> And even still, I was a little reluctant. I was like, we don't need it.

>> Listen now. Get me that get me that G Wagon. I'm ready, Ken. Come on.

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Tyler is up next in Knoxville, Tennessee. Tyler, how can we help?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. So, I'm currently 22 years old and I'm struggling with the fact that my parents are kind of financially abusing me. I've been following the Ramsay baby steps.

I'm currently reading the Total Money Makeover book and I got my refund from

school about in May and it was close to about $4,000. It was exactly $3,999.

And I used that money to pay off my clear debt, my car payment, and as well a little bit my credit card payment. And they weren't really happy about that.

They were just absolutely furious about me, saying that that was their money and

about how the hard work they did to put me out here and everything like that. And my head's just spinning about it and what to do. >> Hold on, hold on, hold on. The money was from was a tax refund for money that you did like W2 money.

>> No, it was a refund. School refund.

Correct. >> Yeah. But they paid Did they pay for the school? >> School refund. >> Or did you pay for it?

So they were helping me through financial aid. We took out a loan and as well um just through whatever else uh federal work study as well.

>> So was this let me let me clarify because the key word in student loans is refund and refund sometimes means you

took out a loan and the loan was too much for what school actually costs and so they gave you the money back in cash but it is still loaned money. Does that make sense? So, was this money that was still loaned money or was this actual cash that you had from doing work study and you were given that as payment? Clarify that for me. >> I believe it was a little both from the work study and from the loan.

>> Okay. And whose name is on the loan?

Moms and dads or yours? Who's the co who's the signer on the loan?

>> Um, I believe it's mom and then me. I believe I'm the co-signer on it.

>> Okay. So, what where I'm seeing here is

there's a lack of clarity on what's going on. So, we do need to have that because you need to know if you receive $4,000, if it's student loan money, you should know that because you have the right to be like, "Oh my gosh, I don't want to be on the hook for that. I'm not going to use debt to pay off debt." Right? So, understanding that's important, but it's spilled milk at this point. Um, I can understand if it was

loan money, if your mom was like, "Wait a minute. You took this loan money that we're both on the hook for to do this thing without consulting both of us because we're both on this loan." >> So, I can see that.

>> So, I want to put that out there. But, you used a really big word earlier when you said, "Mom and dad are abusing me with the money." So, >> I see no evidence of that. >> Show us that. Let us hear about that.

So, the reason why I say that is because

one, when I got that money, my first instinct was obviously to put it towards my debt. And my my both my parents are both spenders. My dad works in the oil field. My mom doesn't work anymore. So,

I'm currently in I'm in another state from te I'm from Texas originally. I'm in another state working as well as in school trying to pay all this stuff and all the things I can do. And they're helping me financially, but it's always about money, money, money. They My mom just bought a brand new Mercedes. My dad spends money constantly on his new truck. >> Okay. >> Um, >> what's that got to do with you? >> Left and right. >> But what's that got to do with you?

>> It's just a money struggle. They've always been haggling me for money as well as asking when I ask for money if I need it. They just never give it to me or they're 50/50 on it.

>> Okay. So, >> but that's not abuse. >> That's not I don't think it's abuse.

Like what what I'm hearing, Ken, is and correct me if I'm wrong, Tyler. What I'm hearing is your parents are spenders. It seems like they always have the money when it's time for something for them, but when it's something for you, it's a big deal. And it also sounds like they've hit you up for money. Maybe you had your job in high school and they're like, "Hey, let me can you spot me a 20?" That kind of thing. And they never paid you back. Is that the type of thing?

>> Um, a little bit. Yes. As well as like recently they've been wanting me to get a truck and they want me to help pay a down payment. And I've been telling them that I don't want to do that. >> Okay, then you don't have to do it. You don't have to do it. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Your parents, you're 22 now. >> Your parents can make suggestions. They can even try to like strongarm you to do things their way, but you don't have to, my guy. Like, you can say, "I'm just not going to do that." And that might be them being pushing some boundaries, kind of being, you know, a little disrespectful. But I wouldn't go the line of of abuse. Would you, Ken? I I don't know that I would go to that line.

You're being very nice. I've heard enough. >> Listen, Tyler, there's two things. Okay.

Number one, I actually get your instinct

>> and I your instinct to take that money and put it on debt. Great instinct.

>> It's a good instinct. Wrong move. Like right idea. >> I'm getting there. I'm getting there.

I'm getting there. I'm saying it was the right instinct. Uh but you should have communicated with the parents because they're involved in this financially.

>> You can do both. and also be frustrated

with them for all the stuff you're frustrated with them about how they handle money. I see all of this together. But the reality is is that you

and Jade's right. You're 22 now. So now we begin the separation and now we create a little bit better boundaries.

>> Yeah, you're right. You're right. >> And she's right. You should have communicated uh much better on this deal. What's done is done.

>> But let me be very clear. you need to stop saying they're financially abusing you because this is not anywhere close to it. I'm not just disrespect. It's dramatic. And by the way, words matter.

So when we think that our mom and dad are abusing us and then we tell somebody

>> uh and we tell two hosts on a radio giant show, >> then we've now become um we we've we've come to believe something that's just simply not true.

And then that colors how you handle things. They already handle money in a way that will continue to create tension for you going forward.

>> That's clear. >> And by the way, good on you, young man, to go, I don't want to live that way.

>> Yes. >> So, uh, I like the direction you're headed. All that to say, stop with this nonsense. Stop thinking it. Stop saying it. Stop feeling as though your parents are abusing you. They're not.

>> Um, and, uh, you just need to start to do things differently. >> You do. And honestly, how much are the student loans?

>> So, as of this moment, I checked last night, it was roughly about 40 40,000, but going into next year, I will be a junior. So, it's going to be tacked on roughly maybe about 80,000. I transferred to the University of Tennessee. >> Here, here's what I need for you.

Here's what here's my We took some time talking about mom and dad. I want to talk about Tyler for a minute because you were talking about mom and dad's bad money decisions, bad money habits. Tyler, you are following in those footsteps right now because you are taking on debt and you're going to an out ofstate school and you're doing all this thing just racking up money and I know that you're young, but you got to stop doing that cuz you're going to come out of this thing with $80,000 of debt.

>> And so mama's going to be breathing down your neck every month talking about where's the payment, you're messing up my credit, da da da da. And that is going to jack you and her. Great point.

If I were in your shoes, I would be thinking long and hard about can I do I

need this degree? Do I need to be out of state for this degree? Can I do it in my home state where I have instate tuition?

And can I do it someplace where I'm paying going at the speed of cash? I'm getting a job. I'm doing work study because $80,000 is a lot of money,

especially when it's tied up with mom and dad. >> This is a great point because they overextend themselves all the time. And that's why that tension around money is always there. They have a scarcity mindset. That's what you described.

>> And so tied to that, it's going to make your life miserable. So we prefer you not to have any more student loans, but if you're going to do student loans, do it without mom and dad attached >> at the very least and do it in states so that it at the very le don't hear me say get student loans, but do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> Yes. I understand what both y'all are saying. And I've done the math as well.

Even when I originally did transfer, if I was looking back at other schools and some schools were the exact same price of the same major that I wanted compared to here and we just came to that >> sports management.

>> So, >> well, there's two ways to skin this one.

Um, you know, there are a lot of people that would argue with me and debate me on you need a a degree in sports management. Um, and that's probably

statistically true, not knowing that major super well.

>> However, I know it's possible to get any of those jobs without a degree because I can point to example after example. You got to get in. You got to get in. You got to you got to sweep floors.

You got to be a janitor. And then you work your way up to doing some type of analyst work. So, it's possible to get into sports management without a degree. But I can tell you that my partner's right today.

Nobody cares where you get your degree from. >> They sure don't. So I listen I know you what UT costs for uh instate students. I can't imagine what it costs for out of state students there.

>> Tyler, no one has ever asked me where I went to school. >> I'm not even allowed to tell anybody anymore. She made me stop talking about it. >> No one's ever even asked me what I got my degree in. Ever.

>> What did you get your degree in? >> Music. Commercial music. >> Well, that makes sense. >> Concentration of vocal performance. >> And now you're a bestselling author.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is joining me here in the studio here of the Ramsay

Show. So excited that you're with us. 88 825-5225 is the phone number.8825-55225.

You got questions about income, feeling stuck, uh, feeling a little stale and

want to make some moves, I'll coach you on that. Got your money problems, Jade's got you on that. And we combine as well.

Let's go to Jennifer who's in Jackson, Mississippi. Jennifer, how can we help today?

>> Yes. I just have a real quick question.

And I have a son who is 17 about to turn

18. And my credit score is 8:30 and my

husband's is like 780.

And we want to start him off on the right track of having a good credit much like we do. And I was just wondering if there was a particular credit card or how y'all would maybe suggest uh helping

him get and obtain a good credit score

as well. >> Okay. Uh, >> I've never heard that question on this show before, actually. Don't think I have. >> I've gotten it a couple of times. Um, Jennifer, when did you start listening?

>> I just started like about a month ago.

>> Okay, great. >> That makes sense. Okay, very happy to have you. >> Yes, welcome aboard. >> Um, so what is it that what are you hoping he'll be able to do with that credit score? I just want to learn a little bit more about your intent here.

Um, well, I just want to know that when

he he is also about to start college,

um, he's a senior in high school now and so he'll be starting college and I know that he'll need, you know, we bought him his first vehicle, but I know that down the road that he'll need to get a vehicle and possibly be able to have to rent an apartment for college and this that and the other.

>> Well, here's I'll be honest with you. Here's why I don't like credit scores and here's why I I don't I've never focused on one and for, >> you know, for all intents and purposes, I don't um believe in them at all. Uh because you have to have debt. You have to interact with debt in order to have a credit score. And we also know that when

you borrow money, the borrower is slave to the lender. And so there's this part of the credit score that it has never it doesn't make sense to me because it's all about how you interact with debt, how much debt you have, what types of debt you've had, how long you've had your debt, what percentage of your debt that you're using, right? It's all nobody's asking questions about can you actually afford the item? How are you managing that the cash that you actually and the money that is actually yours that is in your bank account?

And so, >> right, >> that's why I have an issue with the credit score.

you to teach him a way that says, okay, if you have the money, you can afford it. If you don't have the money, >> right, >> you can't afford it. Now, let's go back to the things you talked about. >> He's a very good He is a very good saver right now. So, he only works part-time like two days a week and he has since this past summer and he's already saved like almost $3,000 and has purchased

like a like he's purchased like a $2,000 CD >> and this that and the other. So, I mean we have taught him like you do your 10%

tab then you have some that you put in this much you put in savings and this much is like your fund money. So, he's done that. But what I mostly worry about is like once he gets off to college and he has to rent an apartment. I know a lot of apartments look at credit score and if he doesn't have one, they may be like, "Oh, hello.

We can't rent to you." >> Well, there the truth is, you're right, a lot of credit card or a lot of uh apartments do look at your credit history. Uh but a lot of them don't.

the ones that do, if you simply go to them and say, "Hey, here's the thing. I know you guys look at credit scores. I have a zero credit score, which means that I don't borrow money because I don't believe in debt. But I also brought a copy of my bank account and you can see how much money that I have here. So, I'm good for the money. I also brought you my pay stubs so you can see how I work. And you know, if you if you

kind of dig deeper and also let them know, hey, they might charge you a little bit more for first and last month's rent. But the truth is, you may have to do a little bit of due diligence to find people who believe the same things you believe and can actually understand, hey, I actually have money because those apartment complexes are out there. So, let's check that one off the list.

loaded loaded up with a a car payment.

Because now we're teaching him, hey, if you want a car, you have to pay payments on it as opposed to teaching him, hey, if you want a car, let's buy one in cash. You got $5,000, 3,000 saved and 2,000 in a CD.

>> Once that CD is available, let's buy $5,000 car in cash. And then in in a year or two if you want to upgrade and add $3,000 more with it, now you're driving an $8,000 car and let's do that.

And so that you can always have your money freed up because one of the things we've learned, um, Jennifer is the car

payment is what keeps middle class middle class.

>> Mhm. >> Most people are walking around here with a $700 a month car payment. And because they have that car payment, it's tough for them to do things like invest for their future. And so I'd love to set him up with the mentality that I keep my

biggest wealth-b buildinging tool, which is my income, at my disposal. I don't give it away in payments every month.

And therefore, if I'm not in debt, I

don't need debt, which means I don't need a credit score.

>> Okay. >> It's a new way of thinking. I know that it is because people don't talk about it. >> It is. It's it's it's scary. It's scary new way of thinking. But yes, I I I see your point. >> Tell me the fear. I >> It's not scary.

>> What are you scared of? >> And it and it it goes it goes beyond the

rent because so college will only be four years and then after that it'll be he'll probably want to buy a house. And

I know it's a lot harder to, you know, obtain a house with no credit score and

save up for a big, you know.

>> Okay. So, let me let me let me uh break in and I want my colleague to tell you about that fear. Go ahead, explain it.

>> What if I told you that's not true? I Jennifer, I love this call so much. I'm so glad you're with us because you are

every woman USA right now calling in.

The truth is credit scores, they benefit

from us, right? They benefit from us being in debt. They make money off that.

But when we when when you get a credit card, when you sign up for a loan, there's a little thing called interest. And so there's a lot of people making money off of that. And so that's why you don't see on TV people advertising

uh zero credit scores cuz nobody's making money off of that. And so this whole thing is a product.

>> But the truth is, you can buy a house the it's no harder. You can buy a house with a zero credit score. It's called manual underwriting. And it's the same thing like I told you at the apartment complex. All they do, it's it's literally the same process, but all they're instead of looking at your credit score, they're looking at your actual money and they're going, "Okay, >> and I've never heard of that." >> I know, but it's true. Do you want to know that I bought my house with manual underwriting?

>> I had a zero credit score.

>> And so, okay, >> just to clarify, not not just for you, but anybody listening, a zero credit score is not the same as a bad credit score. That's right. A bad credit score is you haven't done well borrowing money and so you have a bad credit score or a low credit score. A zero credit score is

just as good as a high credit score. It simply means I don't borrow money. And if you were to look at my credit report, it would say indeterminable.

And so there are plenty of places, Church Hill Mortgage is one that we talk about all the time. They're everywhere in the United States except New York and Alaska. And they do manual underwriting.

And literally all they look at, I'm going to tell you right now, they look for 12 months of trade lines. And that could be you pay your cell phone bill, you pay your utilities, that sort of thing online or I'm sorry, on time. They look for 12 months of your rental history. So if he goes to rent, he just needs to show 12 months. I paid my rent on time. And then they want to see your >> I'm sorry.

>> Oh, I just said, uh, >> okay. And then they want to see what you made over the last year. And they'll ask for your payubs just like anything else.

And then they go, "Okay, great." And if he happens to be self-employed, they might ask him for his tax returns, but that is it. And I just want to clear the air for anybody. You're you're helping so many people right now because a lot of people don't know that this is a thing. And it 100% is. And once you know

that, all of a sudden, it's weird because Ken, the credit score don't mean a thing but a chicken wing at that point. >> So true. And I love what you just said. The zero credit score tells people this is somebody who's very solid with their money and that's all they care about is are they going to get paid.

Yeah. >> So when you prove as Jade, you know, really laid out well that you can pay, your son's got nothing to worry about. So that fear is natural, Jennifer, but it's because you've never heard what she just laid out.

>> Mhm. >> But she's right. Go do your homework on it. Check her on it. >> I promise you. Oh, yeah. It's popular to do these days. Fact check us.

I think you'll like what you see. This is the Ramsay Show.

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>> All right, today's question comes from Randy in Delaware. He says, "I've been seeing a lady for over a year and she has borrowed over $1,700

from me that she has not paid back. I'm a single day." >> Oo, I'm a single father with over $20,000 in debt. My wife passed away and

I'm living on just my salary. I have a nine-year-old son and my daughter is 24.

I am serious about this lady, but it bothers me that she has not fulfilled her promise to pay back my $1,700 after

9 months. How do I approach her about this concern? >> Randy, >> listen. >> Oh, man. Randy, >> sometimes I read these questions ahead of time and sometimes I don't cuz I just want to feel the impact in the moment.

>> What are you feeling right now? >> I'm feeling impacted.

>> How? Well, I it's two parts to this, Randy. There's two parts to this. A >> you lent her the money, and whenever you loan money, there's always a risk, right? There's the risk that the person's not going to repay it. That's the biggest risk. And then the secondary risk is that because they don't repay it, or even if they do, it will affect the relationship in some adverse way.

Right? Those are the two biggies of why we say don't loan money. And you hit the nail on the head on both of them. Number one, she's kind of being a scrub and not paying the money back. And how are you supposed to feel good about this relationship? Because now it's has the ability to create like a little bit of bitterness. You take her out on a Randy takes, let's call her, you know, Sheila.

Randy takes Sheila out on a date. Let's call her Sally. Randy takes Sally out on a date. >> He's not going to feel good about picking up her steak dinner. He's already >> I'm gonna tell you, okay, I'm gonna talk to Randy like I would be talking to Randy if he showed up here and we had a cup of coffee. I would look at Randy and I'd say, "Randy, I'm gonna tell you what the problem is. You are serious about

this woman, Sally, aren't you?" And he'd go, "Yeah, I'm serious about it." I go, "Yeah, and she knows it, doesn't she?" >> And he would go, "She knows it. She's not paying the 1700 back ever." Because

Sally, is that her name? >> Sally. Sally >> Sally Sheila >> Sally Ride >> Sally is banking on closing the deal.

>> Is this what you think? >> I know. I know what's going on. He has

made her feel like she's the one. He told us in a simple email that uh he is

serious about her. She knows he's serious. She thinks the 1700 is already

their money and he's going to forgive it cuz he's going to put a ring on it. >> I don't know. Sally could be a Rolling Stone. Sally could be a Rolling Stone that's like, "Hey, >> Sally is >> I'm just here for a little while." >> All right, let me flip this for a second. I might get in trouble for this with you, but I'm going to do it.

>> Okay, get in trouble. >> If you and Sam were dating, >> okay, this is not you and Sam real life, but this is you and Sam. This is male and female. >> Got you. Got you. >> And I'm with you. >> Sam loaned you $1,700.

And you had not paid it back. Same deal.

Nine months. >> Mhm. You're a human being. This isn't a

Jade or a Sally. This is a human being and a woman who feels like her man is

serious about her. Are you going to be in a hurry? Is any woman going to be in

a hurry to pay the $1,700 back?

>> I think if I really was >> Do you think that you guys are going to be an item and get married? >> If I was on like if I was dating Sam, that means I'm like I've got respect.

And not that I would ever do this, but if I had borrowed money, I feel like it's a great opportunity for me to >> If you think he's gonna pop the question I am, >> you're gonna pay that back. If you think you're gonna be two instead of one,

>> come on. This is a human question.

>> I'll tell you, it's hard for me to put myself in that position because I can't even imagine being in that position.

>> I'm going to tell you what's going on.

This woman feels like he's in love with

her. And because he's in love with her,

she doesn't have to pay the money back cuz it's their money. There's a guy in the lobby with his thumb up in the air.

He knows I'm spitting truth right now.

>> But then why would they even like >> That's why he should have never lent her the money. >> Well, why would they even come up with those terms if they were on on that level at that point? It's just like >> terms. >> Well, he's clearly saying like she was supposed to pay it off within a within a term cuz it's been it's past 9 months.

>> No, it wasn't a term. He's saying he's saying here it's been 9 months. Where's my money, honey? >> But the problem is she said to him in a moment of weakness, I need $1,700. But my point is this, baby. My point is he gave it to her and now she's never going to pay him. >> Ken, you don't go 2015 Rihanna talking

about pay me what you owe me. Don't act like you forgot to the woman you love and want to marry. You don't do that.

>> I know that's what Well, but that's the point I'm making. He needs to reconcile the fact he's never getting this money back. So, he needs to close the deal.

>> Close the deal >> and then get rid of the resentment >> or it's gonna end badly is what I'm getting at. My point is is I'm not throwing shade at Sally, Sheila, or whatever you called her. I'm saying Sally, >> I think this is a pretty typical human behavior when you're in a pretty close relationship that he's he's the last person she's thinking about paying back.

Oh, here's my other point. You don't borrow money and >> I know he's already done it. So, I'm saying to him, "Pal, >> you need to marry this woman." >> I think I'm I'm just going out here.

>> He's not getting the money back. >> Okay. I'm the exact opposite. I think she's a Rolling Stone. I think that he's vulnerable and because he's gone through a lot and found a nice looking lady and she might is taken a little bit of advantage, but she has no aim.

>> And would you also Okay. Would you also agree she probably has other debts?

>> Yeah. >> That are much bigger than what she owes this port. >> That's what I'm saying. He's never getting the money back. >> Okay. That's what I'm saying. He's not getting it. >> Getting it. >> Hands up if you agree with me in the lobby. Look at this. This is real time.

>> You guys are really giving this lady a lot of credit.

>> I'm giving her zero credit.

>> I'm just saying she's not she's never paying it back. That's what they agree.

>> No, she's not. Like I agree she's never paying it back. But I also don't think they're getting married. Raise your hand if you think they're going to actually end up getting married. Okay. See, there you go. There you go. Yeah.

>> So, >> well, now in this case, he uh Well, now

this changes everything. See, I wasn't even going that far down the road. I was telling him to cut his losses, >> but now if like they cut their relationship losses, he needs to do that sooner rather than later. Agree. But I think he's smitten.

>> Yeah. Well, she's shown a piece of I

feel like she's if if what you're saying is true. I feel like she's shown a piece of herself cuz there's a little integrity there cuz they're not married yet. He hasn't even proposed yet. be one thing if it was his fiance.

He hasn't even proposed. If you borrow money, you should pay it back. Whether it be to credit card company, your grandma, you know, whoever it is, if you borrow money, pay it. >> But relationship 101 here, you shouldn't even borrow money or lend money to your fiance.

You would agree with that? >> I would agree with that. I am a like I have a hard line on that. I think that if you would like to give someone money and you have the money to give, you should give it.

In his case, it doesn't even sound like he didn't he clearly did not have the money to give.

>> And I think that's when you get into hot water is if you don't have it to give, sometimes you can't give it.

>> Yeah. >> And that's just hard, you know, when people you love are asking. >> If Stacy and I were dating and she asked me for money, I'd say, "Honey, you got to marry me cuz it's all yours at that point anyway. Until then, I'm not loaning you a nickel." I mean, I'm just telling you. I'll tell you what Sam Warshaw did do. This is terrible. This is a bad This is tisk. Don't do this.

>> He Okay, my car. I was driving a Jeep Liberty and the the the AC and the heat

on it was bad. And so when winter came, my heat wasn't working. And he got in my car and was like, "You've been driving around like this?" And I'm like, "Yeah." He's like, "I'm going to get you a car." And I thought he was being a hero. He co-signed a car for me. This is pre you

guys getting out. This is >> pre us getting No, we weren't even married. We weren't even married.

>> Oh, you were dating.

>> He co-signed a car for me. We were just We were just about to This is all part of your story. >> This is all part of you. And that's what I'm saying. Seen the light off.

>> That's why I'm saying like you might be right that he was smitten cuz I think that a guy like love goggles will make you do anything. >> That's what Sam did with you. >> Yeah. But it's a good thing I married.

>> That's a fact. >> Married him otherwise. Here's a problem with our guy. What's this guy's name?

Uh, Randy. >> Randy. Listen, here's the problem. Every guy wants to be the knight on the horse.

>> Exactly. Night and shining armor.

>> And it's it's one of our kryptonite problems. And this girl bat her eyes at him. And she cried and he swooned and

gave her $1,700. And he might as well lit it on fire.

>> All right. Not getting that money back.

>> Just don't do it ever. It muddies any relationship, whether it's romantic or any kind of relationship. Don't give friends or family alone.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dayton is joining us now from Vancouver.

Dayton, how can we help today?

>> Hey there, guys. Um, yeah, calling in.

Just I'll make it as brief as I can. Um it's a bit of a mindset kind of thing.

Um my wife and I quite a few years ago we had quite a bit of debt about 22,000 and we had worked hard to pay that off and then since then we've had three kids, bought a house and then a lot of things have happened and racked up quite a bit more debt. Um my my mind my mindset question to you is what are some ways that we can kind of protect ourselves from doing this again? We're just starting the baby steps and uh we don't want to get out of debt and then get back into it.

So I'm just wondering if you guys can kind of help us with the mindset of getting out and staying out.

>> So my first question would be when you back in the day when you paid off the 22,000, what did it what did it look like to pay that off? Did it was it painful or was it kind of like we're going to do this and once it was done it was done?

Um, initially it was kind of painful.

Like I I can't believe I did this.

Credit card company saw me coming from a mile away at 18. And then um I just worked I I was at a job where I could work tons of overtime. So I pretty much worked seven days a week, >> 60 70 hours a week kind of thing. And we just we worked through it and it felt really good when we got out of debt, but it was it was a grind getting through it. >> How long did that take?

Um, I was able to pay that off in about

11 months, I think it was.

>> So, without giving us too long of a story, what happened? Because you said and then things happened and we accumulated debt again. What what what type of things?

Well, in that window, um, pretty much right after that, we got married and then we had our first child and then we

had our second child and then I did a career change that cost me um quite a

bit of money to go to school down in Texas and then um we bought a house um

and then we had a third child and you know when you buy a house to make it what you want it you you end up spending money >> thinking that it's going to be okay. So, what kind of career change was this?

What are you doing now?

>> Uh, I'm a firefighter now.

>> And what did that cost you?

>> Uh, it cost me about $20,000 to get into that. >> Do you still have a loan on that?

>> Uh, no. So, well, yeah, I guess it's part of my one of my line of credits.

Um, I used to get into that.

>> And so, I'm hearing one of your line of credits and that's what we did to make the house great for three kids.

>> Yes.

>> Interesting. Yeah. Um, I'm just thinking about what you're saying and first off, you haven't paid off the 103 yet, right?

So, you haven't allowed yourself to go through that process. I'm one I'm a person that I think everything is in the process. The first time it took you about 11 months. The truth is the debt wasn't that drastic.

It probably was uncomfortable to pay it off, but you were able to do it. I think now because more is on the line and you're going to feel this one a lot more because it's you, it's your wife, it's your kids, and you're going to have to change your lifestyle, which you're going to feel that. I have a feeling that this one is going to stick a little bit more.

that you need?" And I I I think I hear the mindset that got you into it. And I'll try to give you an idea of the mindset that got you out that's going to keep you out, which is I think um

Dayton, a lot of times when we are in

our life and we've got our money, we start to develop kind of an I deserve mentality. And it's not, it doesn't have to be ugly. It's just kind of like I work hard. I deserve to spend, right?

I deserve to spend money on the things that I want. I deserve to have the lifestyle I want. I deserve to have the car and the house I want. After all, I've worked hard.

And if we're not careful, that can really, really, really do us in because that's what's happened to you. You listed it. You're like, "Well, we had kids and then I wanted this career and then I wanted this house." And it's kind of like what other thing would cause you to go into debt other than the fact that you think you simply deserve to have those things, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, I would agree with that. And then the the other side of that I deserve is you're also seeing what other people have and it's like well how do they deserve that? I deserve what they have because the people around me have the house. The people around me have the car and so you're you're making that comparison and you're trying to keep up with the things you see. Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. Yeah. To a degree. I mean like I never we don't buy any nice cars. We don't have any car payments or anything like that. It's been but yeah, totally lifestyle like wanting to do things with the kids, wanting to make sure they got a nice space, pretty place, you know, that kind of stuff. >> And so I think the mentality going out of it and and don't get me wrong, I think coming out of $103,000 of debt is going to change you in a different way than coming out of $22,000 of debt is.

But I want you to adapt the mentality of

what you truly deserve, which is you truly deserve to have a good night's sleep without debt over your shoulder.

Right? >> Ding ding ding. You deserve to feel good about the money that you earn and that it's enough for your family and not feel like it's not, you know, cuz the opposite is what makes you go out to get debt. The opposite is what I'm contributing is not enough.

>> What I'm bringing and earning is not enough. Therefore, I must and then you go to all these debt sources. But you deserve to feel good about the life you're providing for your family.

>> Yeah. >> So, Dayton, I want to flip that. She's right. But let's just for a second, let's be real gut level honest with each other, the three of us. What are the emotions you're feeling? The negative emotions attached to this debt and those debt payments and that interest and all the things that you now obviously regret, which is why you called today and you said, "How do I keep from doing this again?" What is the most negative emotion? Describe it.

>> Uh, well, I would say it's uh like massive amounts of shame because I was in a good position and I've made good money for a lot of years.

>> Um, and I'm back to making good money now. And it was a lot of shame to like

look at the finances. I knew they were getting out of hand, but I literally like every time I think to open up the banking app or do my budget, my immediate thing is like, "Oh, don't do that, man." Like >> you you're just looking looking your failure in the face, right? So that would have been how it got out of hand for sure. >> How much stress?

How much pressure do you feel? >> Oh, lots. Like especially now looking at my new twomonth-old baby and like thinking like cuz I'm the sole income earner in our family. uh my thankfully my job allows for that.

>> What if I told you I could snap my fingers and take away the shame and take away the stress? Well, how would you react to that? I know it's fantastical question, but how would you feel? How would you feel? >> Um I I know it would make me feel a lot better, that's for sure, if I'm not carrying that baggage around. Right.

>> Okay. So my two cents on this is the way that you keep from ever doing this again is to in these moments on a daily b on

daily basis remind yourself how awful this feels.

>> Mhm. >> And I don't ever want to feel that again. Like that to me if you talk to somebody who's lost a ton of weight, somebody who beats some type of an addiction and I've been able to interview people like this. I know people my personal life. if you trace their story of when they recovery, you know, we've heard Dave say this for years on this show and on stage is it's the I had it moment. You know, you've talked about that. You talked about it earlier in the show today.

>> I think you have to bottle this emotion >> not to stay with it. And uh I really want you to focus on getting out of that shame because we all carry shame and it's powerful. But I do think you need to sit with it long enough to go, I don't ever want to feel this again. And it's actually really simple to never get

back in this again. You can get out of it. You've done it before. You're going to do it this time. But to never get back in again, he goes, I don't ever want to feel that again. And I have total control as to whether or not I ever feel this way again. And I think that will be really helpful. So get your chin up. Walk the baby steps. You can do this. Throw off that code of shame.

You're not a dead beat. You're not a jerk. You're not a loser. You're not a bad man. >> You made a bad financial decision.

Welcome to the club, pal. You're going to be okay.

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The Ramsey show continues. I'm Ken Koma Jade Warshaw is alongside 888255225

is the phone number. Laura is joining us now in Los Angeles. Laura, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I my husband and I already know

a lot of debt uh from a small business we started and I need you to guide me.

>> Okay. >> How to get out of it, I guess. >> All right. Give us some numbers.

>> Okay. So, we're talking if we're combining personal and business, it's about like 150.

>> Okay. How much is from the business though? I'm just curious.

Um, well, I would say all of it because we put in from personal into the business, but just the bit like the credit cards would be like 90,000.

>> We Okay. And what's the rest of the the

debt? What's the rest of the >> They're all They're all credit cards.

>> All of it's on all 150s on credit cards.

>> Yes. So, >> oh my word. We even opened up personal loans to pay for the credit card so we

can have more space for the credit cards. It's a mess.

>> So, how many credit cards total?

>> Um, I would say there's about seven.

>> Seven. And then you said you have personal loans open too. Is that included in the 150 or is that what is that? >> Yes, >> that that's included in the 150. Yeah.

>> Okay. So your thought is like, "Hey, we use these personal loans to pay down the credit card to clear up more space so we can borrow more on the credit card." >> Exactly.

>> What's the What's your income situation?

Are you guys still working in the business?

>> No. No, we it took us a while, but we

brightened up to to close that business.

Well, it's still open, but it's not running. >> Okay, got you. Um, >> so what's your income?

My husband makes about I would say 120 and I make 80. So >> where does that money come from?

>> We each have jobs.

>> Got it. >> Okay. So we got $200,000 combined income. >> Correct. >> Okay. Uh do you have any other debt outside the 150? I know she asked you that, but I'm just totally clarifying.

This is all your debt.

Well, yeah, we have a a mortgage, a car

if you're if if if that's what you're asking. >> Yeah, we want to know. So, tell us about your cars, your student loans, any anything that you owe money towards that you make a monthly payment towards. We want to know about it. So, go ahead and tell me your mortgage. I'm just curious.

What do you owe on it?

>> Um, I would say we owe it like 400,000.

So monthly I paid 3300 for mortgage.

>> Okay. >> Um the car I paid 700 a month. I think

there's like $19,000 left on it.

>> Okay. >> Uh we have a leased car that's $400 a

month. My son's school is $850 a month.

>> Um my >> Is that private school or is that daycare?

>> Private school. >> Okay. How old is he?

four. >> Okay. >> Okay. Keep going.

>> Um, my school one is 400.

And so our personal loans, his is 1,600

a month. Mine is 850 a month.

>> Okay. And how much? But that personal loan is included in the 150 you told me earlier. >> Yes. >> Okay. Tell me, um, when you guys get your paychecks, like after everything's taken out, what do you take home every month?

>> What's your check look like between both of you combined? >> Mine >> uh Yeah, mine is about 2,000 and his is

about >> Oh, no. That's on every other week. So,

about >> 9,000 for him.

>> Okay, that's the good news. >> So, 13 net. And just a real quick question. I don't want to get bogged down on this, but why is the four-year-old in a private school?

>> Um, because of I I don't want him to

learn anything that >> Right. But is it prek?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, he doesn't have to be in prek.

>> Um, I'm just wondering right out of there. some money to be saved on some home care maybe versus But I I I don't there's bigger issues going on, >> but y'all got to y'all got to like cut back big time.

>> Big big time. >> There's the bumper sticker that Jade's about ready to walk you through. >> Well, I think that's I mean, jumping off with with Ken's point could be a good place to start. You know, the only way to get out of debt is there's two methods you could invoke here. You could work more, right, to have more margin.

Uh you could also cut back on your budget to find more margin. or you can do a combination of both. Um, and to Ken's point, that school might be a great place to start because I don't know what you were going to say as far as like I don't want them to learn certain things. I it might be some of the same feelings that I have and my kid is in private school, but for right now it's okay.

Um, or and they're in daycare and for right now it's okay. So, it might be worth it for you to invoke that when they get a little bit older. Could be that it's your kid, your problem. I was going to say, yeah, and I I may step on toes here, but since we're here, I'm going to go ahead and say it because I know a lot of Americans are thinking this, so I'm going to go ahead and say it.

>> Get in there. You might have to put your hat on. >> I don't remember anything from my 12th grade year. Your four-year-old, no matter what they're trying to teach the kid, I mean, I get it.

I'm not in LA. I get it. But I don't know. I would be looking to save $800 a month >> tonight.

>> Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, what matters most is what you teach him at home. >> Yeah.

>> I know. And I got to be careful. I'm not judging you. I'm just saying, you know, the four-year-old, we could cut that.

That's 800 bucks a month. That's $9,600 a year. >> It's a lot for where you're at right now. It is a lot. We just want to highlight that it is a lot. Um, next thing is I'm looking at possibly both of

these cars. I want to know about how you can get out of this lease. When is this lease over?

um re like very soon. I would say like

four months. >> Okay. And then your option you just turn the car in and you're out.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I would do that. Don't try to buy back the car or nothing like that. Just get out of the lease. Um and in the meantime, do you have any money saved?

>> Uh no. Everything is gone.

>> Okay. Then what I'd be doing knowing that this lease is about to come up, I'd be like, "We got to stack up $3,000 because when this lease goes away, we need to be able to buy a car in cash.

And that's what that that's kind of the car plan. So, write that down in your notebook as when we've turned in this lease in 3 months. In 3 months, we'll also be buying a $3 to $4,000 car. I know you have the margin in your budget to do that. Okay. >> Okay. So, that deals with one car. Let's talk about the $19,000 car. Do you know what that car is worth? The payment was kind of high, didn't you say it was like $700?

>> Yes, it I think we bought it at 50

uh,000. >> Okay. Hey, do you know what it's worth now?

>> I don't. >> Okay, that's your second piece of cart homework. I want you to go on kellylbluebook.com, look at private sale because it sounds like if if you bought it at 50 and judging by the height of your payment, I feel like you've been paying this off kind of fast. Is that am I wrong?

>> No, you're you're Yeah, you're right.

>> Okay. So, you might actually you might not be upside down. And if you're not, I would still get out of this and get into something cheaper because the $700 payment, you need that money. And so now we've just found $1,100 in your in your budget with these cars and you need every dime of that to go towards paying

off this this credit card debt. The good news is can I mean you guys have a good income. It's not wonderful for LA, but it's wonderful for the rest of the country. >> Yeah. And it's doable. And again, not telling you what to do with your kid in school, but if we take the 800 on top of that, now we're right at the doorstep of two grand that we found in your monthly budget. That goes a long way to paying off $150,000 in debt.

>> Okay? Because now you're looking at if we just take 2,000 a month that you found and you put it towards debt, that's 24,000 a year. Now, that's a long haul, right? And this is a drastic change of your lifestyle. You're not going on vacation. You know, you aren't going out to eat. uh you guys are going to have to really hustle. But but again,

my my co-host today, this is a woman who

who her and her husband paid off half a million dollars. >> Uh she needs a little pep talk as we go into the break here cuz mindset wise, what does she got to be thinking right now? >> You've got to be thinking the hard part is you're making a good income and to not be living in that income feels like, oh man, I've been working hard. But the time will come when you do get to do that.

So just hold on. If you clean up this mess, you're going to enjoy your income like you never have before. Right now, you've kind of faux enjoyed it with all these things on payments and it's not all it's cracked up to be. But if you walk through this journey, you're going to get to enjoy the fruit of 220 plus,000 a year with no debt and payments.

>> You can do it. >> You can. >> Appreciate the call. All right, quick break. Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, America. Thrilled that you are with us.

It's where we help you win in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me this hour. The phone number is 88825-5225.

and Jade. Uh across the studio through

the glass on the debtree stage in the lobby are some folks and that means we've got a debtree screen coming your way. Uh Gary and Melissa, welcome.

>> Thanks. Thanks. >> All right. Where are you guys from?

>> From Bellplane, Minnesota. >> Bellpoint, Minnesota. Is that near Minneapolis? >> Just south Minneapolis. >> Okay, good. Boy, are you just excited to see the sun this time of year?

>> Yep. >> There it is. All right. So, uh, all this way to do a debtree scream. Very exciting. So, let's hear the numbers.

How much debt did you pay off and how long? >> We paid off $165,000 over 47 months.

>> All right. >> Wow. And what was your range of income?

>> We started at about a 160 and ended at about 200. >> Oh. What uh what led to the uh bump in pay? >> We just leaned into our careers. We both earned promotions and >> Okay. >> stuck to it. >> What do you mean by promotions? They were he moved from a um factory position to a safety manager and I just kind of

took different roles at my current company. >> And what are you doing? >> I'm a client relationship manager.

>> Okay, fantastic. That is awesome. All right. What was uh all this debt? What did the 165 get comprised of?

>> By the time we finally got down to just writing everything out, um we had a heliloc that we had been leaning on. We had a car and then we had a credit card that we were just kind of paying off every month. Um, so that was probably the smallest and easiest one to pay off.

>> Okay. So, pretty good size helock.

>> Yeah, it was about 40,000. So, >> yeah, we used it to remodel our basement and then kind of kept it and kept it going. >> Okay. All right. So, tell us 47 months

ago. What happens? What was the catalytic moment to lead you on this journey? >> Yeah. So, he was going back to school.

It was his last semester and we had found we were kind of we were trying to cash flow it, but we'd get a little short. So, we'd pull a little bit out of the HELOC. We were getting kind of sloppy. And as last semester came up and the the tuition payment was going to be due, we finally said, "This is it." Um, we're doing it in cash.

And we had about two and a half months before that was due. And we did it. And that was kind of our our biggest victory as we got started. >> That's awesome.

So, you're funding education out of the HELOC >> little bit. Yeah. Cash flowing it. But then we were kind of filling the gaps.

We were just being sloppy. There was no reason for it. >> Yeah. So, what was kind of like you hit the moment of like listen, we're not going to do this anymore.

We're going to start paying cash. What how did you find Ramsay? Like how did you find like this and this is the way we're going to do it going forward? >> Yeah, we knew about it before that.

Uh we just weren't following it. We kind of thought we were doing good on our on our path. You know, we were kind of budgeting. Um but then it was just like just tired of the revolving debts.

Like this year it was a heliloc. Couple years before it was a 401k loan. It just kind of things we were just it was a shell game.

>> It does get tiring. So, you're working the baby steps. Is this you're getting on a budget. Is this you guys picking up extra work or is this like listen, we're just tightening up on the budget? We're just getting very clean on what we're doing. Tell us about that. >> Yeah, it was pretty much just us um tightening it up as much as we could, cutting out any unnecessary expenses. Uh

we didn't have any side hustles, but we tried to do more experience-based activities with the kids. Mhm.

>> You know, we do a lot of camping, uh, going up to the cabin, stuff like that.

So, just try to cut out those unnecessary expenses.

>> Do you, uh, do the ice fishing in Minnesota? Do you guys do that? >> We do. And I guess spear fishing is probably >> Yeah, >> I learned about that.

I I don't want to go down the rabbit hole for the rest of the people who don't care, but you talk about camping, all that, and I heard about how you do the ice fishing. Like, it's like a whole thing. It's like a a whole experience. Everybody goes out and all that jazz.

>> It's fun. >> Yeah. No, I don't think it is. I'll be honest.

I heard it described and I didn't think it was fun at all, but uh much much love to you on that. All right, so uh let's talk about this.

point that you guys said, "Okay, we'd heard a little bit about this Ramsey stuff, now we're going to do it." Was it hard or was it We were on the same page.

What was the beginning of that journey like when you finally said, "All right, we're committing." How I mean, was it hard for you or did you just roll right through it?

It was a little bit of getting on the same page. We started with that first goal of getting that last um tuition payment and then from there it was adopting the budget which um I wrote out the budget on the nerd. Um took him a little bit to get into the budget but once we started rolling then uh we were both fully bought in. >> Yeah, it was reluctant at first.

It was uh >> the idea of getting on that budget was a little rough. Um >> but once you saw it start to really work that's when I brought bought in all the way. So re relate to that a little bit because I know a lot of people dislike budgeting, right? They hear the word budget, they think it's a punishment, they think it's something that's holding them back.

Uh what changed that for you? Because I I love talking to people who don't like budgeting and changing their minds.

>> um like all the little pieces equal to certain amount of money and we had that >> sitting on our refrigerator and then every time we were paying off any amounts uh Melissa was really good at filling in those spaces. >> I like to fill it in. >> So, you like to feel the milestone like you want to feel the milestone you're celebrating. It's kind of a fun process.

>> Yeah. And it was a way to see that work.

And we did the same thing with our house where we printed off a picture of like balloons holding up our house and each one was a certain dollar amount. And >> now wait a minute. Did you pay the house off? >> We did. >> What? >> Oh, you didn't tell us that.

>> Wait for a second. >> I was digging. I was like 65. I was

trying to figure out how big was that credit card. >> Listen. >> You paid your house off.

>> That's amazing. Okay. Okay. Okay. That makes a little more sense. >> Yes. We just got into it. Guys, I need you to shout that from the rooftops.

>> Yeah, you guys are congratulations.

>> Ho home. All right. Now, who are your biggest cheerleaders on the way?

>> I would say we've got some family that um was walking the journey along with us and then my parents. Um we just like to talk money. You know, there's more that um caught than taught and it was those conversations that just kind of kept us focused and motivated.

>> Wow, >> that's awesome. So, what's next? You got a paid for home, no debt, life is good.

What do you do? What do you do to celebrate? Don't say ice fishing.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, we came here.

>> Okay. >> Um and then we've got some fun projects for the house now that it's all done.

We've kind of It's time to have some fun there. >> Yeah. And you don't have to take out a heliloc to do it. That's the best part.

Speed of cash. >> That's so fun. All right. I see the kiddos over there. Um let's bring them up and then we're going to talk about them for a second. We've got uh tell us who they are and the ages. Yeah, we've got Charlotte is 13, Kelvin is 11, and Caleb is seven. >> Okay. And and so how quickly did you

bring them into this journey? And then how involved were they in the conversations around this? Because you just said, uh, Melissa, that you and your family talk about money. I'm guessing these kiddos have a pretty good idea about what we're about to do. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. They do. They listen to the podcast with us a lot of the time.

Um, we have the game at home. Okay.

>> We've played that a few times. Um, you know, our um, debt trackers were up on the fridge, so they saw it the same as we did. Um, so it was really a family journey. They knew kind of what the goal was and why we did things the way we did. >> Okay. And no griping, no complaining.

They were pretty good soldiers. >> N they're pretty good. They're pretty easy. That's awesome.

>> Well, this is really exciting. Well, listen, before we do the screen, I want to let you know we're also going to give you uh some gifts here. Uh, one is uh

Dave's Total Money Makeover. that's for you to give to someone else because you guys have you guys have actually done this. And then Baby Steps Millionaires, Dave's latest book, and that's where you guys are headed uh probably pretty quickly with the income you guys have.

So, those are our gift to you. All right, let's do this. Is the team ready?

The kiddos have they've been practicing.

They're old enough to I got to hear you guys. All right, I want to hear all those different tones coming out. Let's do this thing. We've got Gary, Melissa, Charlotte, Kelvin, and Caleb. All from the Minneapolis area. They paid off $165,000 in 47 months, starting out making 160

and ending at $200,000.

Let's go team. Let's hear your debtree scream. >> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> I heard them all. I heard them all. Did you? >> I heard every voice. >> Little You're the professional musician.

Did you pick I picked up all three voices. I don't know what you call them. >> I heard all of them. There was no harmony, but I heard all three.

>> Well, you're tough. You're a tough one to It's like a judge from American Idol.

That's right. I would never want to do that in front of you. Uh but this is a great example of how a family's tree, as

Dave has said, for decades changes. So very, very cool. Awesome stuff. All right, don't go anywhere. We've got to take a quick break. Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman with you. This is the Ramsay Show. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're here to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships. 8882552258255225.

Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman and Jade Warshaw is alongside.

All right, so uh what do we got here? We got a Ramsey Network app question. Is that right? >> Now, is this audio, James, or am I reading this question?

>> I'm just reading this one. >> Okay. I'm sorry, folks. cuz I didn't do my production notes and I thought I'm not going to try to fake my way through it.

I'm just going to ask my earthwhile captain in there and uh sometimes we listen to these, sometimes I read them and I I didn't pay attention to my notes. Kids, this is why you study before you take the test. All right. All right.

Today's Ramsey Network app question. By the way, the network app, I just want to say this very briefly. This is fantastic stuff. We'll remind you later in the show, but we have just exclusive content over there that only people who have the app, and you can get it uh in the App Store, Google Play, uh can listen.

It's just a a part of the show that no one else can get. We'll remind you about that later, but uh fantastic app and and a lot of great content over there. So, this question is from Jane. Uh she asked, "After many stops and starts in college and throughout my career, realize I'm passionate about filmm particular helping to fight and advocate for people who don't have a voice.

I've since learned that it's hard to make money in this profession. Can you give me some advice on some things that I can do where I can actually earn a living? Oh my my that's that's an open-ended question there.

the quick advice is you need to find work uh different types

of gigs um in many different lanes that

all have one thing in common that allow you to use what you do best. That's your skill to do work that you really really enjoy that produces a result that matters. So you say you're passionate about film making. Okay. We we love the artistic film making. Um and then you add in the specifics of you the results that you want to produce from film making ideally would be to fight um bad

things to advocate for people who don't

have a voice. So there is an activist >> an advocating type of film or art that

you want to put out. Mhm.

>> So for instance, this could be documentary film making obviously and we see a lot of this. >> Yeah. >> And so um someone has told you or you have listened or you have uh started the process of trying to get in film making and what you've discovered and what she's discovered Jade is this thing called a ladder.

>> Yeah. Got to make Yeah.

>> And on the lower rungs of the ladder, Jade, we don't make a whole lot of money. >> Peanuts sometimes.

>> Yeah. And so if I might, could I go back into the wayback machine?

>> Way back. Take us way back. Back in time. >> I'm 31, 32 and realize that I really

want to go into broadcasting, but I do not have a degree in broadcasting. I had no experience in broadcasting. I just had what I thought was the gift of GAP, but I mean hadn't tested it.

>> Yeah. >> I have three little kids.

>> You know, my kids. I do. >> They were littles.

And that means I got to provide and fabulous wife and a puppy and the whole nine yards in the house. And and so um the reality was is I began to do the work like Jane had to discover, okay, what does it look like to work in the film industry? What does it look like to work in broadcasting? And what I found out pretty quickly was on those rower lungs of the of of lower rungs rather of the ladder.

>> It wasn't going to feed the family.

>> Yeah. So what I did is what my advice for Jane is or anybody that's listening is is I had to have a day job >> that took care of business >> and I was then going to have to part-time get into broadcasting, get a

little experience here, get a little experience there and over time step into

it slowly. In other words, embrace the ladder. So you got to have something else to fall back on while you're trying to get into film making. So uh I wish that the advice was clearer. I wish it was better. It's not uh if that's what you want to get into any type of artistic >> form of telling stories or whatever. Uh if you could find other causes, maybe you go work for a nonprofit.

>> Uhhuh. You know, um and you actually then begin to do video work for them instead of going into the film industry and then telling stories.

>> That's about all I can ideate on there.

You want to add anything to that without having her on the phone? >> Yeah, I agree. I think you're right. There's a part of this you have to pay your dues. And I do think um when it

comes to the arts, when you're first starting out, there is a part of that dream that you have that you do have to generalize in the beginning because you got to take opportunity.

>> And it's kind of like uh music artists

when they first get signed, they have to, you know, the machine decides what they're going to do. It's not until they're in it for a while that they finally get to go, now I do the songs I want to write. Now I do, now I do it my way. And so it might be a while for her before she's doing what she labeled here

as, you know, helping people fight and advocate for people. It just understand it could be a while before you do it exactly the way that you want to do it. And that's okay. >> You know what song I'm thinking about?

>> I don't. >> I did it my way. How about that? I got

to sing. >> Yeah. My grandfather used to sing that. I love that. >> Yeah. There you go. James is so happy right now. >> Good job, Ken. >> Yeah, I thought it was on key. Actually, that was really good. >> I thought it was on key. A little bit of a kuner kind of feel there. We're gonna move on quickly. Paul in Hartford, Connecticut. Paul, how can we help?

>> Hello guys. How are you? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Um, so basically I'm kind of in a predicament right now. Um, last week we're at a family reunion and my dad come up to me and he just uh basically asked me to take out a loan for him of

$20,000.

>> Um, >> for what? >> Just casually.

>> Yeah, just casually. for what?

>> Um, he says he has some business going on. He didn't give me any details. Uh, I

know I don't need to take the the loan out. >> Okay. >> I just want to know how to basically, you know, turn him down without having any issues after that. >> Um, okay. Clearly and quickly. Hey, Dad.

Pops. Listen. Thought about it for about two seconds. Uh, no.

Not gonna do it. Love you, Dad. You're awesome. Not happening.

What would you add to that? >> I thought he was going to say I just want to ask you guys what was wrong with them. >> But you say, >> "Well, I think he's kind of wondering that, too." >> Um, yeah. Listen, I'm glad that you know that you're not going to take out this loan. I think the way to do that is just simply say, "I I Dad, I don't borrow money and so I can't help you borrow money." >> That was much nicer than the way I said it.

>> Yeah. Right. >> No, Paul. Seriously, Jade's right. I think you're respectful. >> Yeah, be respectful. You're like, "Dad, I I don't believe in debt and >> I I can't do this. I I I'm so sorry.

>> If you want to be really polite and really respectful, I just roll differently in that situation. Like if a family member, especially my dad comes to me, I'll be like, "Dad, you know what my honest answer would be? This is not what I'm recommending, but I literally would have been like, if he rolled up on me at a party like that, I looked at him and went, >> "Do you have a fever? Should you lie down?

Can I get you a cold rag and a glass of water? Have you lost your ever loving mind? That's what I would have said to my dad. >> Is this normal?

>> Not me, but u some other family members.

Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz it felt so casual. I wondered if it was normal. Um Yeah. Is it that he

wants you I'm just curious. Is it that he wants you to just fully take it out in your name or does he want you to cosign or what is it?

>> Fully take it out my name. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Yeah. >> That's different. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you just got to say no. And at this point, >> resist making it about the details. I know I just asked details, but resist making it about like, "Dad, you didn't even show me a plan or you didn't even tell me what you want to do." It's not even about that. It's just, >> "Dad, I I I can't take out debt for you.

I'm sorry. Good luck with this." >> Dad has a plan. I think if he' asked for details, his dad would have told him a a fish story. I just don't think there's anything there.

Yeah, Paul. Listen, we're having a little bit of fun with what is a really tense situation. I just think you got to take the high road, really high road, but do not have a conversation about it to the to the extent that when you tell him, he you make it clear to him there is no conversation. This isn't like a he gets a shot at a little bit of a negotiation on this.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, honestly, I was just shocked. I didn't react at all. I was just shocked because it's, you know, it's a huge amount of money. >> How will he react? How's he going to react when you tell him no?

Uh, I I'm not sure, but he's not going to be happy. >> Oh, you're sure? That chuckle was a chuckle of experience.

>> Yeah, it's uncomfortable.

>> Come on, man. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. This is tough. >> Sorry, man. I hate that that happened.

That's That's awkward.

>> Yeah, >> it's an awkward situation to get put in.

>> Let me take this above Paul real quick.

Give our audience 20 seconds on why they should never loan family any money as a general principle. Oh, well, what Dave Ramsey would say is it makes Thanksgiving dinner taste different.

I've done it, by the way. I've borrowed money from my mother-in-law, who is a wonderful, generous woman, and it's not on her, it's on you feel it. No matter what, it doesn't matter how great or nice they are. You feel the weight.

Don't do it. >> There you go. Great hour. Jade Warshaw.

Thank you, America, for listening. This is the Ramsay Show.

Heat.

Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Steve is now joining us in Columbia, South Carolina. Steve, how can we help today? >> Yeah, hi Ken. Hi Jade. It's great to be speaking with you guys today. >> Yeah, good to talk to you. >> Um, >> so I've got a uh I'm on the cusp of finalizing a divorce and we came to a mediated settlement >> and as part of it um basically there's a 50/50 split of the 401k but then I also

have to come up with 100,000 in cash in 90 days to buy her out of the house and then additionally there's 150k um

lumpsum alimony payment over five years.

So kind of two questions is basically how would you guys recommend coming with the 100k cuz uh I got some advice from the lawyers that I didn't really appreciate and clearly they weren't part of the Ramsey program and uh and then I

treat the alimony payment going forward.

Do I treat it as a debt in the baby steps or as like a line item in the budget going forward? >> Why don't we address that one first?

Jade, tell them about where that goes in the budget. >> Uh the 150 over five years. Have you calculated it out and seen what that looks like monthly?

>> Yeah. So, about 2500 a month.

>> Can you Can you afford that?

>> And it and it fits. Yeah.

>> Okay, good. So, yeah, that's a line item on the budget. Um, I would do it that way, especially if you can afford it. What's your income?

>> Uh, about 180 a year.

>> Okay, good. >> It ends up being about about like 8 8,000 a month. >> Okay. Okay. So, >> the 100K in 90 days to buy out the house. >> Yeah. Why' you agree to that?

>> Uh so it's it's definitely definitely the house. Uh it's um uh terms of

everything else available in the area.

Uh there's there's no way I'd be getting anything close to this. And um

>> but I'm talking about the the term the time >> like you do you have a hundred do you have $100,000?

>> Yeah. So that's exactly it. I think I think it was a matter of kind of signing it and not really paying attention to that 90 days. Um I've got about 50 55k

in cash right now. >> Okay. Well, that's a good start. How much is your car worth?

>> Uh so, uh not much. So, it's a 2007

Subaru Forester. So, >> what happens if >> Let's come at this thing from another angle. Just I'm trying to figure this out for you. What happens if in 90 days you don't have 100k? What what what is the kick in in the contract? What what the agreement?

>> Uh, so it's just part of the court order, so I I think it'd be going going back back in front of the judge.

>> Mhm. I think that's your best bet. You, this was a this was a bad negotiation on your part or on your lawyer's part because you don't you can't get the money in 90 days. And so when this goes back in front of the court, you need to have a better plan of what that is. Um, >> so >> why why not sell the deal? I was going to say >> the original well the the original thought was uh uh basically kind of part of the quadro from the rest of the 401k.

So my half of the 401k use part of it to be able to pay her off. >> That was your plan.

>> That was the that was the original thought. And then again uh the the lawyers even suggested doing a home equity loan which I flat out just rejected. And he thought that was a bad idea >> because you have to put yourself you have to reverse engineer like you have to reverse the situation and say if I were in any other setting would I borrow from my 401k to buy a house? No, you wouldn't. Would I take out a personal loan, you know, to to up the Annie on my

house? No, you wouldn't. Um, and that's the way I'm looking at it. I think that

you either need to give yourself more time if this is like something that you're like, I love this house. I don't want to give it up. I'm never going to have a house like this again. You either need to give yourself more time. I mean, I've talked to people where there's years to come up with the money. Not that I want you linked to her for that long, but uh Do you have kids?

>> Uh adult kids. So, she's in college now, but Yep. >> Okay. So, where's your ex going? She's just going to go rent somewhere?

>> Uh starting a new career in another state. >> Okay. Here's here I'm going to come back to this because I I now again I've never walked through this before, so Jade and I are kind of on the same page. thinking about you could do maybe a cash out refi. I don't know if there's because you have to take her name off it anyway.

>> I I would sell the house. And do you have any equity in it at all?

>> Yeah. And that's basically what I'm buying buying out of. >> How much equity do you have in the home?

>> Uh about 200k in equity.

>> So why wouldn't you I mean >> I I don't understand given that equity stake that you have. This is just a house and it's got a bunch of pain attached to it. you are single, you got

all this money that you that you're going to have to pay out uh over five years. I I personally, and again, I

don't know what you think about this, but >> I view it a little differently. >> I know. Well, >> I'm giving you another train of thought. I I'm not going to advocate for my point of view. I'm going to say if it were me, I'd sell the house. >> If if Are there kids involved?

>> Exactly what's been going on in my brain. So, >> to sell it.

>> No, no, no, no. Just the back and forth.

So there's Yeah, like you said, there's there's >> I like a clean start in this situation.

>> There's there's that, but then there's also I mean, you did make a good point earlier where you said with the market and when you bought this house, you might not be able to get something like that again. And I do feel that if emotionally there's not the attachment that Ken and

I think there might be and you want to keep the house, yeah, standard is you would refi, get her name off of it, and then you would pull the cash out when you refi, and then she would get her portion. The only reason I kind of disagreed with Ken's sentiment initially is because the h 100,000 is her money.

It's not you giving a h 100,000 of your money at this point now. That is her money because you're separate. So there's a different way to look at that.

It's like I'm just I'm just giving her her money. I'm not giving away my money if that makes sense. Um >> right. >> So that's if you want to do the 90-day

deal, that's how you would get it. Um

but Ken has a good point. Do you really want to be in this house or is it worth it to you to maybe get less house and have a fresh start? That's the question. Only you can answer that. >> Yeah. >> Or rent for a bit. I mean, your life's not over.

>> So, >> yeah, I I definitely know that it's starting starting over, but Yep.

>> Yeah. And it's not over. It's starting over. And so, there's a whole lot of new things coming your way. So, again, I don't want to advocate for it.

>> That may be too aggressive. >> How long were you married? >> You know, >> uh 20 years. >> 20 year. Oh, listen. Ken may have a point. Are the kids? Do you have kids?

>> Yeah, they remember they got the >> Oh, that's right. That's right. >> Is it just one? >> College. Yeah, just one.

>> Yeah, you got your work cut out for you in in terms of sentimental thoughts versus fresh start thoughts.

>> I mean, you make a good >> I've been working through those. >> You make here here's I'm not advocating, but I am going to because I I like when you push back, so keep pushing on this.

But in your shoes, if you sell this house, then you're able to uh pay her

her money and have that done, set aside, put it away, get it over with. That's what I would do. I would I would want a clean break if I could do it. And I'm just looking at the numbers. You're going to have to pay her uh a h 100,000 in 90

days, and then you got 150, which is alimony, over five years. Um that's a

lot of money coming out of your pocket.

It could be nice to have a smaller.

>> And I'm just saying I might rent for a year, reset my life. I don't think renting for 12 months is a bad idea for a guy in your shoes.

>> Get rid of the house. Move on into a new

chapter of life. >> And another Okay, I'm going to throw something else in there. And this is soon, so don't don't be mad at me, but

you'll move on at some point and meet another lovely lady. Do you want to bring her into that house or do you want to bring her into, you know, fresh start, Steve?

>> Yeah. So, we'll see about that one, but sure. >> I I I know I jumped ahead, but do you see what I'm saying? Like there's >> begin with the end in mind is what I'm saying. >> Yeah. I I don't know. I don't know why I feel that way, but that's what I would do in that situation. And just start fresh. You're not wrong. Start fresh.

Get her to the hundred,000. That's her money to your point.

>> And now work on the rest of it.

>> Oh, divorce sucks. take that for you.

>> Yeah, me too.

You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade. Next to me is Ken Coleman. Taking your calls this hour about your life, your money, uh your business, your relationship, your career, whatever's on your mind. Uh we'll be here to help. Uh we'll go to Los Angeles, California, where we've got AJ on the line. What's going on, AJ?

>> Hi, Jaden. Ken, how are you both doing?

>> Great, if I do say so myself.

>> Yes. What's going on? >> Awesome. Awesome. Um, well, first of all, thank you guys for taking my call.

Um, I'm calling because I'm starting a real estate media business here in California. I'm very excited for it and I have support from friends and family.

Um, ju just the one thing that keeps bothering me, I guess I could say, is just a fear of AI. Um, I have this fear

that AI could essentially replace my work and could make it less valuable.

And I really just wanted your guys' opinion on it. >> Yeah, be more descriptive. uh give me a 30 second description of what your company's service is going to be. What do you do for folks?

>> Yeah, of course.

>> Through real estate. >> There we go. >> It it is a new it is a new company, but um we're we're going to specialize in video work in um in um more lifestyle

work for agents who sell higherend properties just to help like elevate their brand and make it stand out from the rest of the market. >> So, it's you're a production company and you're going to be shooting video of their homes. uh the inside of the homes, outside, making the homes look great, but also making them look like those big shots on those uh on those reality shows. >> Selling sunset. >> Selling. Thank you. Yes. That that's what you're going to do. You're But you're a video production company.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. Uh so AI, how is AI going to

affect the video production industry?

Have you done any homework on this? Have you begun to see trends?

So, I've just seen things where editing

work is being replaced where um a lot of the the background work is being replaced like stuff behind the scenes.

So, I'm just seeing that trickle in into that part of it. Um not really seeing it on the front end front end, but it kind of worries me. >> Well, but let's keep playing this out.

So, I'm leading you down a path here. So if if AI tools allow you to do the

editing or your team to do the editing quicker and better, >> does that replace you or does it enhance your business?

>> I would say it enhances the business.

>> Yes, it does. >> Absolutely it does. If And so what you

have to look at is is >> uh Okay. So, I I had uh I had uh cigars

with a uh very successful movie producer about two weeks ago, Jade, >> and he told me point blank, and this guy

like he's producing the latest Rock movie that's coming out next year. So, this guy's big time.

>> And he said to me and was showing me on his phone a full movie trailer

that was AI start to finish, not one real person in it. >> That's wild. >> All right. Now, I bring this up to say in this case, if I was an actor in the actors unions, and that's already happening, it's why the latest strike happened in large part. What is AI going to is AI going to replace real actors?

Because if you can do a blockbuster action film and not pay an actor 20 million, >> that makes me so mad. I'm getting angry sitting here, Ken. >> So, AI would threaten actors. No question. >> 100%. >> And he told me as much.

I'm getting mad. You cannot replace creat creative people doing creative things. I'm just putting that out in the in the world, not to you. >> And he doesn't want to, by the way. He's not pro that. He's just going >> somebody's going to do it. It's going to be crazy. So, everybody's going to have to adjust is what he All right. Now, >> all connect to it. I'm just saying AJ.

Um, you someone's going to have to always do the filming. Someone's always going to have to consult the realtors on their brand. AI cannot do what a human

doesn't program it to do. Make sense?

>> Yeah. >> So, I would run it through that instead of just letting your fears run wild. Go, wait a second. >> Will the human touch be more needed than ever in my industry? And I think the answer is yes. AI cannot do what you're going to do. And the truth is, let's let's put it through um you know, obviously AI is is new territory for a a

lot of folks, but in essence, in many ways, it's not. Right. There's always been a tool available to do something easier. That's right.

>> And as professionals, we get to decide, are we going to be the person who picks up the tool or not? Right. And so there's always a vacuum cleaner. Some people don't want to vacuum, so they call a housekeeper.

There's always >> Or you get that one that just roves around. >> Yeah, that's right. technology >> Roomba. Yeah.

And so I mean right now there there there are more apps than ever before to make you know uh digital uh digital media and all that kind of stuff. But some people are like I don't want to learn how to use those apps.

do that for them. So the the point is as long as there's tools there's always going to be people who go I don't want to learn how to do that. And you're still going to have the available the ability to do it for Here's what last point on this uh AI folks for our large

audience. >> If you learn how to work with AI and use

AI and also find yourself in industries

where the human touch will always be premium, then you're going to be fine.

>> Yeah, I like that. >> It's going to make us want human more.

>> It is. It really will. >> I, you know, I'm a a creative at heart.

I hate the idea. I hate that I'm hearing music that is by >> I know >> not not real people. Oh, I hate this idea of not real people being actors.

I'm like, people need people. If there's nothing we didn't learn from 2020, it's that people need human touch and human contact and humans create art and art is

a reflection of culture. And there's I can't understand what the world would be like if that continuum was disrupted.

Anyway, this another conversation for another time, but anyway, >> if it gets to that, you'll find me somewhere uh at my own restaurant, James in the Caribbean serving people.

>> Listen, be me up. >> Spinning yarns, telling jokes.

>> Spinning yarns. All right, let's see if Carl has a a yarn to spend in in in

Sacramento.

>> Carl, spin us spin us a spin us a yarn.

>> Okay. All right. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, we can. What's up?

>> Awesome. Um, so, um, uh, I'm, uh, 45

years old, uh, married. Uh, nothing

safer retirement, regrettably. I do not own a home. >> Okay. >> So, currently renting a home. Um, I have

about $250,000 in a high interest savings account. Um,

>> and I started a small business about five years ago, which I currently still own. Uh but obviously getting older without, you know, any uh backup on the

investment or even a home, >> yeah, >> is worrisome. Um so I've and obviously

and I'm married and I don't want to leave my wife without a home or, you know, without some resources in case something were to happen to me. >> Sure. Does she have resources in her name?

>> Um no. Nope.

>> Okay. >> You know, she's she's same situation.

She has a good job, but uh that you know that doesn't last forever. So, >> okay. >> Um, so anyway, uh, so I decided it'd be a good idea to sell my business where it's at, uh, so I can start playing catch-up on some of those important items. >> Okay. If you sold it, what would it bring? >> So, so after taxes, so after I pay

capital gains to Uncle Sam, I'll probably have net about 500,000 um,

left. >> Okay. So, combined with my 250, I'll be

at uh about 750 liquid cash that I can

deploy uh in one direction or the other.

My first thought is >> And then what would you do for work?

>> Uh I'd probably go start another business. Probably the same thing. Um >> and you wouldn't need capital for that.

You could just go right to it.

>> Yeah, I'm still going to have uh a lot of the the purchase isn't he's not going to be purchasing all the assets. So, I'll still have some of the assets. I can literally start the same business.

>> Okay. And what do you think you'd earn?

I'm sorry. I'm just trying to get the numbers before we hit the clock. >> No problem. >> No problem. Obviously, day one, I'd be at zero, but I think I could probably get to about I could probably get to about 4,000 net within six months. Okay.

>> I could probably within a year I could be, you know, comfortably, you know, six six to 7,000 net probably within a year.

>> Okay. Good. >> Um worst worst case scenario if things didn't go well. Um because I am pretty established in my industry, I can go work for another company if I thought things weren't really gaining traction and I could probably get a job pretty easily making, you know, 80 to 100,000.

>> Excellent. So the question is, do you take what do you do with the 750?

>> Exactly. Yep. So I'm in I'm in, as you guys mentioned, I'm in Sacramento, so nothing's cheap in California.

>> Yeah. >> Um and so just a small modest home in my

area, you're looking about 550,000.

>> Okay. Um, well, >> nothing special, but it's, you know, it's a roof over the head and, you know, it's, you know, >> the truth is, uh, you're going in the right direction. I'd want to stabilize.

That's the biggest line item on all of our budgets. It's rent or mortgage. So, I'd want to stabilize that as quickly as possible. You've got the money. If you can pay for something in cash and not have a payment, I love that for you and start investing the rest. When you get this money together, you need to be investing 15% of your gross every single month. This is the Ramsay Show.

You're listening to the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade. He's Ken. Give us a call. The show is live. So, if you want to talk to us, call in 8888255225.

We'll take your call about your life, your money, and Ken will hit you up with that career advice. Although, you do jump in in on the money and you do a good job, Ken. >> Oh, yeah. You know, there's a microphone in front of me. That means I'm going to say something >> and it's going to be good. All right.

>> Lee is here. He's from Washington DC, our nation's capital. What's going on, Lee?

>> All right. Thanks so much for taking my call. Um, I was actually calling because

uh I recently yesterday I was laid off from my job and um I was contemplating

if I should pay off my credit card debt

which I was initially going to pay off before I got laid off but I'm I'm wondering if I should just change my priorities. >> What happened?

>> Um the the company so I worked at a startup and uh they just couldn't afford to to continue to pay me. I had honest I had just started that job uh in July July 1st. So it only this is the first month. >> Um I got the job through internship because I was interning with them for two months and then they hired me on and now they've uh they've laid me off because they couldn't afford to pay.

>> Well, first of all, I'm sorry about that. That uh that stinks and um and

it's happened to all of us. Uh what were you doing for them?

>> Uh software sales. Okay. So, I was a sales development representative.

>> How what's your confidence level? I'm sure your brain has been running 100 miles an hour. What's your confidence level of getting another sales job um or

something else in that field or or just anything? What's your confidence level in the next 30, 60, 90 days?

Um, I'd say in the next

I I think that I could confidently say that I could be placed in in the in the same role with a different company at least in the next uh 60 days.

>> Can you survive from a cash standpoint?

What's your cash situation, your bills and everything that you you've got responsibilities for?

>> I do. Um, yeah, I can survive right now.

Yeah, I have um about

four months of expenses saved.

>> Do you have any debt besides the credit card? >> Yes. >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, >> Jade, walk me through that whole situation >> in this situation. I hate that you got laid off. Um and you're kind of in a a a

transition and so we would tell you to pause uh the baby steps. So, for all

intents and purposes, you're on baby step two, which is you have debt and you need to clear out your consumer debt.

And so because this kind of storm has happened, we'd say pause that. Stack up as much cash as you have. It sounds like you have four months of expenses, but you also have debt. And so if I were you, I'd continue to make the minimum payments on all your debt because you want to stay current. You want to stay on top of things, but I wouldn't pay anything over it until you land that next position.

>> Okay? >> And can I please, please, please, please

ask you to get to work very quickly. It

doesn't even mean, you know, if you've got some things that are working uh in the industry, that's fine. Play out the interview process, but I would be doing some type of part-time job or maybe something full-time until I had something something that's just a gig kind of a thing, the gig economy, you know, and keep keep income coming in.

Here's why. Let's say that this thing plays out like you think it's going to.

And within 60 days, uh you're you're back and up and working. And now all of a sudden we're right back in the baby steps like Jay just told you. And now that four months worth of expenses is all going towards the debt.

>> But I want you to keep income coming in in this time. That's where you actually turn a really sucky situation >> into a uh better situation by going,

"All right, I got laid off. That sucks.

Uh taking a pay cut, but I'm at least bringing money in." And Jade, if he could, let's say, make enough money in a gig to take care of his four walls, and I'll let you explain that, then I like his position once he gets back up on the horse. >> That's excellent. Matter of fact, I might keep a little bit of the gig while I get back on the horse so that you can pay off this debt as quickly as possible cuz that's the goal. I want you to when once you land the job, the money that you have in savings, I want you to use that to pay off the debt.

That's the baby steps.

You stash it away. That's your starter emergency fund. Baby step two is you pay off all of your debt except your mortgage using whatever extra money you have laying around. And to Ken's point, side hustling and doing all those other things. So, you said you have four months of expenses. At this point, if I were you, that money goes to the debt.

And then after the debt is cleared up, you save back up that four months of expenses or up to six months if you wanted to. And then you move on from there and you start investing at baby step four. So that's how I would run this if I were in your shoes. Very good call. Uh let's go to Maggie. She's in Tampa, Florida. What's going on, Maggie?

>> Hi. Thank you for calling for taking my call. >> You got it. >> Um I'm getting a Yeah, I'm getting a little like anxious. We were My

husband's 76 and I'm 69 and we just

bought a house. We wanted to downsize from the one that we had that was bigger. Mhm. >> And I'm getting a little anxious because the house is taking a little long to sell. It's been on the market for 6 months. >> So, you sold one. You moved into another house before you sold the other one.

>> Yes. >> Mama. Oh, >> and so are you about to be paying two mortgage payments?

>> No, no, no. The other one is paid off.

>> Okay, good.

>> The one that we're selling is paid off.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, we we thought it would sell really fast, but with the market the way it's going, it's been a little longer on the market. >> How long? >> And that's 6 months.

>> What What is your real estate agent telling you about your current listing price?

>> Oh, we we just lowered it some.

>> How when was >> it was at 575 and we just uh lowered it

to 569. >> Okay. So, I just saw this headline today. Today, uh we're seeing the

Florida housing market begin to contract

a little bit because it was exploding.

Uh and now we're seeing it contract. In fact, many people feel like it was overpriced, overheated. And so, uh

you're in Tampa, which is the Tampa area, which is certainly one of the better markets >> uh in Florida. So, I think if you've got a really good real estate agent, and if you don't, I would highly recommend uh that you go to ramiesolutions.com/agent and talk to some of the the trusted pros there on that site that we know. Uh because in this current market, I think patience is the game.

>> And and and and listen, six months for a

house listed in Tampa, I don't think that's crazy if your pricing is right.

If your pricing is right. >> Yeah. Yeah. I agree.

I agreed. Tell me tell me is there anything on fire though? Because of course everybody wants their house to sell. Was the plan to take the proceeds from this sale and put it on your current house or did you buy your new house? And >> tell me more about that. >> No, I put I put some down. So we owe

326,000 because the house was 430.

>> Okay. >> So we just want to we just want to pay the house. We don't want to have that.

We don't want to pay the bank any interest. >> Sure. But you're not >> We didn't have to. But what Jade's asking you is, are you in a financial squeeze because this thing has not sold yet?

>> No, we're not. >> All right, then then be patient. This is all about making sure your pricing is right and then just hold. >> Yeah, just hold. I I definitely don't want you to uh put a price that's too

low because you're anxious and you just want to move it. You know, you're not >> I agree with that. >> You're not everything must go. You're not in that mo in that mode.

So, just, you know, you got to know when to hold them. >> Sit tight. Uh, I'm going to do a little bit of fork. I'm no real estate pro, but I, as you know, I pay way too much attention to the headlines.

>> Okay, forecast for us, kid. >> Uh, I'm I'm I'm I'm pay attention to what the Fed is doing and what they're saying. Uh, we are in a presidential election. Uh, I would not be surprised given where we are right now.

We're seeing unemployment tick back up over 4 point uh I think it's 4.1 the latest the latest job report, last month job report. We're starting to see a softening in the labor market. All of this in a presidential election.

Jerome Pal is on record as saying we've

got to raise interest rates and it is going to cause pain in the employment market and pain in the employment market. Okay. And then when we see interest rates high for the home industry, mortgage rates, this creates a

cooling of consumer demand of course >> and consumer confidence which in then in turn theoretically >> theoretically >> drops inflation. Well, the >> So, all that to say, >> make it lay put it in more lay layman's terms because the cooling is happening because everybody's holding on to their money. >> That's exactly right. Okay.

>> And so, what's happening is people are also sitting and waiting to see what happens in the next quarter or the fourth quarter as it relates to mortgage rates. I think you're going to see a slight rate cut in the third or fourth quarter. And I think you'll start to see people move back into the housing market. So, I would sit tight if I'm in a position where I'm I'm listing.

I'm going to list it and stay with it. But I think you're going to see an increase in home sales as we look to the end end of the year. >> All right. I love that because that's been the issue.

Not enough homes on the market. Not enough supply to meet the demand. You heard it first. You heard it here from Ken Coleman.

Let's see. Is he correct.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. The phone number is 888255225.

Our scripture of the day comes from Luke. Luke 9:23. Then he said to them all, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." Our quote is

from Mitch Albam. One half of knowing what you want is knowing what you must give up before you get it.

>> Okay. >> Sounds like a recipe for getting out of debt. >> Uhhuh. >> Taking control of your life in any area.

All right, let's get to the phones. Laura is in Columbia, South Carolina.

Laura, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I was listening to y'all during the pandemic. When y'all were talking about community college, I took y'all's advice, went to community college, got a merit scholarship to university. I'm a senior, but thing is is I'm disabled.

I've never worked a day in my life. Um, most jobs are not available for me to do, and I've always known I'd have to work with my brain instead of my body.

>> Um, I'm scared to, um, enter the workforce. And as a consequence of putting my all into college, I accidentally won a fellowship um that affords me the right to go to almost any state school and even Ivy Leagues if I wanted to. >> Wow. Wow. I don't know if I don't know if I should give up disability, go to

grad school, or stay on disability

or no, excuse me, uh g give up disability um and enter the workforce um and don't take up the scholarship and don't go and don't pursue my education and continue it further or um I don't

know what my disability, I give up my income. >> All right, I'm so glad you called. Um, do you mind telling us what is what is your disability and how and what kind of work can you do because you've obviously done an incredible job in school and you're very bright. So, what are your limitations?

>> Um, I have a genetic bone and joint disorder. Um, it also causes me to faint. If you're familiar with El Danor syndrome and postural orthotic tardia, I have those. Um, I can't stand or sit for long periods of time. I do most of my classes on the computer.

>> Um, so I would be looking for a job um in local, regional, government or nonprofit work. >> Okay, let me ask you this. >> Remote. >> Okay, let me ask you this. If you did not have those physical limitations,

knowing what you know about yourself, what would be something that you would love to try professionally or something you know you'd enjoy doing?

Um, I would like to work for the state or federal government on education policy.

>> So, you really love education policy.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um, and

if you were to get one of those jobs, c

can you do that remote or can or would you have to do like because I'm thinking state government jobs and those those are not remote. Have you have you looked into that?

I have um that's the pipe dream. The realistic dream is a remote job for a nonprofit somewhere I failed to mention.

I have no debt. Um but if I took the scholarship, it would cover 75% to

almost any state or Ivy school.

>> All right. So, let's dream here. What if you what if you just picked an Ivy League school? Um assuming again you

could do everything online. Yes.

>> Um a few. Yeah.

>> Okay. That's what I thought. So, what would that that higher ed degree be?

What what would you get? A master's, PhD, >> Masters of Public Policy. >> Okay. You know who you are.

>> 100%. >> And I love that. You love policy. And you're talking to a policy wonk. Okay. I mean, I'd make Jade's eyes roll back in her head if I start talking policy. And James would turn my mic off. I know what you I know you. I see you. I hear you, Laura. So, I'm going to tell you something. Uh, it's 2024. I'd like to see you before you make either decision

because you you kind of asked Jade and I. Okay. Should I do this, this, or this? Um, I think you need to do some more research here and and I think the research is solely around if I were to

to take those scholarship that scholarship offer and I were to get that masters in public policy uh with my

physical limitations.

Uh, is there a way? I would want to know

that. I would want to know the multiple ways. You You understand what I'm saying when I say it that way?

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. I'd want to know that first.

Now, I'm going to say something else.

I also think that the timing is right,

and I think you're going to have to work at this because I think there's some small-minded people that would hear about your situation and they would consider that a polite nuisance.

But I think there's some big-minded, big-hearted people who would go, "You know what? Let's figure out a way to do this." You know what I mean? Because I understand for you the the idea that you could faint at any moment, that's that's very very humiliating for you, I'm guessing. Correct.

>> Right. >> Yeah. So, um,

so you have to be 100% remote. Is that correct? Or is that just the preference?

>> I'm trying to work every day on physical therapy. Um, right now I could pro I'm

not even going to say I think I could hold down a part-time job cuz I don't think I could >> just physically >> right if it was remote maybe. But um I'm

trying my best. But >> can I tell you something? How did you >> undergrad degree I've got is worthless.

>> Yeah, I know. But I think it proves something to you. How many hours a day were you putting into the undergrad work?

>> Sometimes 15. Usually about 10.

Sweetheart, if you can put 10 hours into

a undergrad degree from home, you can put eight hours into a job from home.

>> 100%. There's nothing different. It's you standing at a computer. It's you taking calls. It's you flipping books.

It's you highlighting things. It's you reading all of those things.

I mean, am I wrong? >> No. That's why I brought in Jade. I wanted to see if my colleague is hearing what I'm hearing. >> I just hear a freaking workhorse >> who doesn't believe that she can actually do it. But you've actually already done it, I guess, is what we're trying to say to you.

>> I'm scared to enter the workforce cuz I'm afraid that I'm going to give up all my benefits and I'm going to be homeless cuz I can't find Here we go. >> Okay, now we're getting somewhere. But you can acknowledge to us that you can work eight hours a day remote. Yes or no?

>> With my brain 100%.

>> That's what we're saying. Yeah, you've already been doing it. You've proven the You've proven it. >> We're on We're on team Laura right here.

We're trying to cheer you up. So, let's talk about the fear piece. Okay. You have no debt. Do you have an emergency fund?

>> Um, no. I I have about $40 in my bank

account and that's usually where it sits. >> Okay. And what is your benefit? What's your uh disability payment coming into you every month?

>> About $1,500. I live out the school food pantry. >> Okay. All right. So, >> I'm on public housing. >> Um, Jade, let's do the calculator here.

I'm going to I'm going to have Jade help me out here. So, if she's making somewhere between $18 to $22 an hour,

let's just do $20 an hour just for round numbers. >> Uh because with your with your skill set, um >> so you do the math, 20 times 40.

>> Uh and so you're going to be here's my point. You're going to be making more than your disability payout. And you're going to we're going to teach you how to build an emergency fund and and we can

walk alongside of you. I want to get you set up with one free session with one of our financial coaches to help you see what my path looks like as I begin to make real money and you're not going to be homeless. See, that's one of the thing about that disability payment. It will make you feel like I can't ever get rid of it when what it's really doing is holding you back.

That's right, Jade. Thoughts on that? >> It's the ultimate crutch. I think that taking a taking out of the equation the things that you want to do and what you love to do.

You can be remote and you can make the >> the money that Ken is talking about, $20 an hour, 40 hours a week, you know, four weeks out of the month and bring home $3,200 instead of 1,500. So, I think that just

opening up your mind and going, okay, like there's there's possibilities here.

You coming up with work on your own, figuring out other things that you could do uh within the parameters of what you enjoy doing. I think there's a lot of options out there. I think fear is blinding you from seeing all of those options. But you're more than capable,

beyond capable. You've proven that. So, that part is a that's been established.

>> I wonder, Laura and Jade, what's the timeline? Um, maybe she gets a job and she stacks some money. How soon would you have to say yes or no to these scholarships?

>> Um, with I would say before February. I would graduate in May and I would have to move out of state by June.

>> I'm going to challenge you. We did this once before. You started off the call saying that you heard us tell you to go to community college. You did it. You crushed it. Here's the next challenge.

Go get one of these remote jobs that Jade is talking about. Could be customer service. Could be anything. Let's just stack some money and just prove to oursel how much money we can make before February and then make your decision.

Laura, we believe in you. You're crush.

>> Good hour. Jade Warshaw. Always fun to be with you, my friend. Thanks James Charles and our fearless band of merry men behind the glass. This is the Ramsay show.

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## 153. Stop Letting Other People's Problems Ruin Your Finances | (Best-Of for March 21, 2025)


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| **Video ID** | `O4NuOPB4Hdw` |
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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:15:57 |

---

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[Music]

today what up what up this is the ramsy

show I'm John deloney joined by the

great George camel live from Nashville

Tennessee we are taking your calls on your money Building Wealth doing work

that you love and creating and

sustaining and hanging on to great

relationships so glad that you're with

us today we're taking live calls 8825

5225 it's 8825 5225 we have a packed

house out here in the audience good to see everybody coming to visit us here in

uh actually we're in Franklin just north of Nashville but we are glad you are

with us as well let's go out to Milwaukee no no no no let's go out to

Dallas dton and talk to Cyrus hey Cyrus

what's up man hello how you doing doing

outstanding my man what's up

um so yes um I am 26 um I have

$160,000 worth of debt and I am

wondering if I should file for chapter

seven uh

bankruptcy why' you jump to that conclusion what makes you think you can't crawl out of

this well um I've been working um a lot

two jobs um constantly um not really

able to get anywhere um recently about a

year ago I caught a case um for a felony

charge and um I am still going on

actively with that case trying to get

probation um so it's been very difficult

for me to find another job now that my

background check is shown a felony

charge um so what are you doing now for

work yeah so I'm working on Amazon um

I'm making about $4,100 a month at a minimum um I

can potentially make more depending on

um if they allow me to get overtime or

work um a six day I'm working five days

there as of right now okay um last year

I made last year I made 60,000 off of it

I'm off of Amazon loan um but I'm

just like drowning right now with with

payments and um I I did

um I I rounded up all my minimum

payments for all my loans and and

everything and uh my minimum is

$5,300 whoa a month and that's just on

minimum payments That's not including

food or um or rent or anything else how

have you made it so far what's getting you through every month if you're going

underwater um so how did I make it so

far well I've been doing um are you going further into debt every month no

no so I I'm tapped out I I can't even

get the debt consolidation loan my credit is shot what kind of debt is this

what is this debt man can you break down the 160 yeah so I have um a a vehicle that's

um 51,000 old left on it um

51,000 yeah it's a Tesla Model y

performance oh not a Tesla what's it

worth yeah

35,000,000 35,000

okay what else um I have nine credit

cards that um a total of $55,000 worth

the debt on that okay and then um and then I have

the rest of my loans which is 90 98,000

which is three um personal loans and

then my auto loan your other what my

auto loan auto loan you have another auto loan no no no it's it's the test

loan okay so you got 51k on the car nine

credit cards that are 55k and then the

other what is that another 50 or 60 is

in personal

loans um no so total with the car it's

98 so it would be another like 40 in

personal okay what what did all this

money go what have you been spending

on so we're talking 100K in just

spending yeah to make a long story short

um I I as I mentioned I had a

three-year-old daughter I I got in I was

in a relationship with this woman um basically she was unfaithful

with me we broke up um ever since then

I've been trying to honestly repair our

relationship for our child and also

because you know it's a woman that I

love and care about

well long story short it's been years of

non-stop um taking on her Debs um you

know paying you know for food and

basically basically living like two households the whole time um and yeah

basically just so she's been scamming

you for this I mean she's been just leeching off you all this time huh yes

yes and now you know recently I got you

know we you know uh I moved we basically

broke up again and I'm left with all

this and I just she doesn't want to make

it work and I've been continuing trying

to make it work for my child and it I

just this is where I'm at now making it work for your

child is different than digging a $150

$160,000 hole trying to impress a

girl yeah those are two different things

and you have lied to yourself for the last two or three years saying I'm quote unquote doing this for the baby but

you've been running around like a like with your peacock feathers out trying to

trying to woo this woman and man she's

been just happy to take your money happy to take all your your stuff but it was

it wasn't about that girl and now again

I think you love your daughter I think you're I think you're working as hard as you can but man you got to let the fantasy of this woman go it's it's burying you what's this felony chargeing

about so it was um she had a guy in my

apartment for the second time um all

right Let's do let's let's do this let's stop there I don't I don't want you to say something that's going to get sub painted on the air let's just roll back to the money part is that cool yeah are

you living alone right

now so I I was but going back between my

parents and her um I was in my car for a

month um last month I was in for a whole

month um just because I couldn't go back

to either one um so now I am back with

my parents they you know they stopped

drinking supposedly so um I'm there for for now

and and this is another reason why I was thinking about bankruptcy just because I have a case going on I'm unstable

household you know I can't rely on

nobody right now I'm a worker I I like

you know two years ago I made you know

93,000 working doubles uh when I mean

I've been working non-stop two jobs for

the last three years but bro if you if you if you make 98 three years in a row

you're out no no not years in year no no

no no I'm telling you like I want you to

hear George and I say we believe in you

if you make 90 grand for three years in a row just straight hustling uhuh you'll be out you'll be

free yeah listen to me you'll be free if

you file bankruptcy you're putting a chain around

your neck and you're jumping into a

lake yeah the the problem I have is I've

been applying for jobs in my record with

the felony Char I got it I got it it's

very the de the deck is is firmly

stacked against you until you get that cleared 100% yeah but I have never one time um

I've I mean I've never

uh the guy who mows my lawn I don't know

if he's got to fill any charge he just does a great job right I mean there's work to be had it's not traditional work and it's not fun work and it is hard grinding hot cold work but there's work what do you think George yeah there's no shortcuts here we got to get your income up ASAP I would not file bankrupt a

you're you can get out of this but it's going to take 3 years of hustle throwing

50 Grand at the debt and that means getting that income up and man you're going to have to get creative you might have to get a roommate or two keep LM with the parents do what you got to do but do not throw that chain around you

just yet what does the future hold for

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at nets.com Ramsey it's free at nets.com

Ramsey welcome back to the ramsy show

I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney open phones at

8825 5225 Tammy's on the line from Tampa

Florida Tammy welcome to the show hi thank you sure how can John and

I help well I I'm just needing some

assistance with uh stopping giving my

ex-daughter-in-law

money okay I have an awesome tip for

this before you even ask your question

yeah okay you ready yep go ahead all

right do you have a pen and paper you can write this down sure you you'll remember it okay

all right stop giving your uh

ex-daughter-in-law

money that was incredible I would it

that was genius incred Tammy don't let don't fall for it

so why can't you stop giving her money um well I did I I've been giving

her money for a long time trying to help her because she a long time and how much

um since my husband died in September

and probably about

$4,000 total four grand since September

yeah I've paid her rent since January it's $800 a month where's your son in

this um he is not in the picture at all

so he is paying support in your life or

hers he's paying her child support $25 a

week oh okay a week where where is

he uh he's in North Carolina and he's

dropped out of her life or everyone's

life is he legally supposed to be paying

more than $25 a week no that's what the

courts awarded him so he's Indigent he's

not working is he struggling with addiction pretty bad um not addiction he's a trans gender

so he's not he's just not in the picture

at all okay he just dropped out of his life so are you are you giving money because you feel guilty a lot of it is yeah I I well

because she's a single mom I don't want

I don't want her to go under and this is

your grandchild still it's not an exg

grandchild it's still your grandchild

yeah she's raising my grandchild I gave

her a car I gave her my car and then I

bought a car so that she would have a reliable vehicle um because she was

going under with the youth car dealership sure well if you want to keep

giving her money then why do you want to stop giving her money I don't have it anymore I have I'm

59 I want to retire someday and I can't

just keep giving her money but the latest was Sunday night when she messaged me that she's going to be

evicted if I don't help her pay her rent

is she working full-time she works two

jobs she gets food stamps job support

she no longer has a car payment I mean she's I don't know where her money's

going here's the deal though unless you

want to file with the child protective services in that local area and take custody of this kid because the kid's not safe where her money goes isn't any

of your business and I know that's hard to hear but it's not yeah and she you've

been giving her money thousands and thousands of dollars and you have probably had a ton of conversations

about your son who's transitioned like

you've had tons of conversations with her yall are close and she she's going to keep calling you in the middle of the night cuz she knows you'll bail her out of whatever situation she finds herself

in yeah and so until you say upfront hey

I don't have enough money for me and so

from this point forward um or here's the

last $500 I got and this is it and she's

going to call you again because she doesn't believe you and you're going to have to hold firm to that boundary you're going to have to be sad you have to be upset you're going to have to be angry at your child you have to be angry you have to be frustrated all of it but you don't have any money to give

y That's thank you yeah and it seems

like there's a lack of trust on your part because you don't know what she's doing with this money and you don't think it's going to the things you want it to go

to that's sort of correct I don't I

don't understand she she works like two

towns over it's an hour away why not get

a job closer to home why not I I just

don't know where her money's going and it's always an excuse and I'm just tired

of the excuses

I just don't want my granddaughter out on the street and now she's going to be evicted in three days are you in a position to um take temporary custody of

your granddaughter for a while I I've

told her yes she can come stay with me I

I mean I haven't done anything legally I'm not sure what I need to do legally but I've told her I can put up my

granddaughter I just um I can't have her

in my house sure of course you know what

dides she say to that I'm I'm waiting for a response I

just sent her her a long message today saying no let's stop communicating in messages cuz that's how that's how my teenage son communicates with his friends and we're adults and this is too big of a deal let's make phone calls okay okay just pick up the phone and

call and say I'm GNA come pick up my

granddaughter and she can stay here until you get on your feet again if that's what you feel like you need to do okay I like that I think I

agree with that and she may say I hate you and I can't believe this or you may bail her out for 3 weeks and then she'll come over to the house and say oh my gosh she took my kit like who knows what's going to happen to the back into this deal but at least for 3 weeks that little girl's got a safe place to put her head that's what I want I just want her

to be safe yeah just I'm not trying to

take her child away I just want her to get on her feet and of course wasting

money of course but listen you don't get

any say into her budget you don't get any say into where she lives and where she works that stinks but you just don't

right yeah I know and it we want the man

I can't even imagine being in the situation you're in but just because it

hurts doesn't mean it's

wrong you don't have a pain-free path

forward here you're going have to choose

the one that's going to hurt and also lead you to where you want to be which is right now a safe place for your daughter and you you're bleeding cash that you don't have and have you grieved your husband uh your husband's

loss um yeah I

mean it's you know it it's I think that

maybe it's just being taken advantage of

since my husband's passed okay

it's um it's tough yeah you know and he

would he would probably he's rolling over in his grave seeing me give her

money it's okay hey you you went through

a period of having to survive and you're still breathing and you're good and now we're going to start making some some harder and firmer and

more um safe and rational choices right

yes yeah forgive yourself man I I can't

my life would end if my wife passed away

it would stop and I would hope to give

myself some Grace on what I did the next

few months it would just be I just can't even wrap my head around that so I'm going give you some give yourself some Grace you've been trying to keep your uh

your family afloat as it's kind of drifting apart from you thank you I'm proud of you

okay thank you and now you got to put your oxygen mask on and make sure you're

in a stable enough place so that if you do end up having to take custody over this little granddaughter or whatever you choose to do or your child comes

home whatever you got to do um you're

going to be at a more stable place to do

that I agree okay I'm proud of you and

uh George this the one thing I always tell parents in this situation is don't

um don't pull a gotcha meaning if you've

been giving money for month after month after month after month and it's up to thousands of dollars in my opinion that

warrants a conversation not just an overnight cut off right um because

somebody has begun to lean on that money

and you have shown up time and time and time again it's worth a conversation and

that can be an uncomfortable one um cuz

she's going to say hey this is it I don't have any more money oh it's just going to let us like it's all her fault right I can't control how your budget how you spend any of that stuff I'm just telling you I don't have any more money right it's worth that conversation and then you got to hold those boundaries firm because those waters are coming we're going to see if they're going to hold it's so hard and I know a lot of

people not this particular situation but

a lot of people are going through some version of this where they're trying to

be a good nice person it's turned into

this enabling they have to have the hard boundary conversation and it's a close

person in their life how do you even

begin that well I'll take it one step

further it's not only like we talk on

the show we often oversimplify it right like you just cut that person off what if I cut that person off and they have my granddaughter who's four right like

it it complicates things and so like

like we talked about in that call what's

the end goal the end goal here is I can't give you any more money and the end goal is I need my granddaughter safe okay then maybe she's going to have to come live with you for a couple of weeks cuz that's the only option right is anybody want that no but that's that's

the next right thing so I think it's it's sometimes it's as simple as telling your 25-year-old kid like you got to move out of the basement often it's

sitting down and saying okay what's the best thing for the children involved in this deal and what's the reality my

financial reality I don't have more money I can't give you anything else um or I'm going to have to be calling you for money and you got to make those those hard decisions and think through all the ramifications of that but none

of it is easy and I think we all want an easy path none of it's easy it's all hard and you got to go do it anyway

so good well Tammy thanks for the call we're wishing the best for you hope this ends up with a good situation for you and your granddaughter this is the Ramsey Show we'll be right back I've

been doing this show for over 30 years

and some of the saddest calls I have

taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills I'm next week yeah in the

middle of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reuping it

because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if

something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them

and taking the time to put this stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza the really is so that is one thing oh to do

to say I love you to your family so

we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many

years including of course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com welcome back to the Ramy show

I'm John delone joined by George camel

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agent all right let's go out to Charlotte North Carolina and talk to Mt

what's up Matt how we doing good how are you we're partying

brother how can we help

man so I sort of uh had like one

question so I'm not like an avid watcher

of the Ramsey show but I see a lot of

Clips online where you guys talk about

mutual funds and investing in mutual funds I was wondering why do you recommend mutual funds over index funds

great question man how old are you 21 lovely and are you investing right

now yeah I've been investing since I was

15 oh my goodness dudee that's amazing

who taught you that um my dad taught me a little bit

and I read about it nice what have you

been investing in for the past six

years um so I I was doing like um mostly

mostly index funds but um I like to play

around do some stock picks but you know obviously not a lot of not a big portion

of my uh portfolio goes towards that

okay are you working

full-time uh yeah I'm in marketing nice

that's amazing okay and how much are you investing as a percentage of your gross

household income uh probably like 25 30% oh my

goodness okay so you're going to be a

multi-millionaire regardless of this

conversation that happens next can we agree on that yeah where do you live

Matt um right outside of Charlotte no no

no like do you have your own PL your own house house you on an apartment you living with Mom where you living no I

still live with with with my mom at home

okay all right cool how much do you make

a year yeah um 80 to 90 oh my goodness dude

you're crushing it so you're we're talking you're investing like 18,000 a

year yeah and you've got a 401k through

your employer no I use a Roth IRA okay so

what happens after you Max that out

I just put in a regular brokerage okay

great so let's talk about index funds versus mutual funds and for the for the listener sake if they're like what are these goober nerds talking about index

funds are basically passively managed mutual funds so still a giant group of stocks but it's tracking an index

basically a set list of companies

whereas the mutual funds that are actively managed has an investment manager that is selecting the funds that

make the list can get let's go even simpler for guys like me when you say

indexed they're indexed and and they're

passively managed so index there's no

one running the show it's just a set list they pick I'm making these 500

there's 500 companies the largest US companies and if they go up then the index fund goes up and if they just all go down then the index fund kind of goes

down and over time we hope these companies just keep getting bigger and growing and then can companies fall off

to S&P 500 and new ones pop in yes so

the whole thing should be just going up over time exactly and so index funds

means nobody's driving it's just following whatever the autonomous vehicle of the investing world you like

that you just ruined it I know there we

go excellent okay okay is that a good summary Matt cuz you know about this stuff as just as much as we

do yeah and um I mean one thing that's

sort of um sort of important to like note is that mutual funds sort of have

built-in fees right you know what I mean

correct like there there's builtin fees

there's an investment manager there's people to pay because this is their job to to run these exactly so they do have

fees the perks of the index funds as you

know diversification which mutual funds have low expense ratios which index

funds have and predictability and you know every investing Rose Has Its Thorn for for starters your index funds won't beat the market because it represents the market

is that makes sense so you you'll settle for the average of the market you can never beat it the goal of the mutual

fund is that that investment manager is picking is hand selecting funds based on

tons and tons of research that they're doing every day day in and day out in

order to attemp to beat it so let's say the market does 10% well the goal of the

mutual fund is to do 12% or

14% now right as we know they won't hit

that goal every year we don't have a crystal ball we can agree on that do you

do you have do do you look for specifics

in a mutual fund to to try to to try to

hit those funds because I know 80% of

mutual funds don't beat the market no

that's actually factually incorrect Morning Star did this article and they said nearly 57% of mutual funds these

active us Equity Funds they beat the

average Index Fund Pier over the 12

months through June 2023 so that means

six out of 10 mutual funds beat the

index wait over how long over that 12-

month period year they looked at here's

what mutual funds did here's what the the peer Index Fund did six out of 10

beat the index fund right but why are you looking at a

12-month period versus like you know decades you can't look at decades and it's going to change depending on the decade you look at and the the truth is

there's going to be mutual funds that don't beat the index and there's going to be years the index beats the mutual funds and so the goal here is to

slightly beat the copycat of the stock

market which is the index fund and so

the index funds also do have a fee you'll see it listed as a 12b one fee

and so that kind of makes up for for the

fact the U mutual fund fees there so

it's not exactly free and here's the thing we're not anti- index funds there's a time and place in fact Dave Ramsey invests in index funds outside of

retirement you have that taxable brokerage account right yeah Dave would say index funds

are the smart play there because of the low turnover they're not moving things around as much which makes the fees less

but in retirement you're not having to

pay those fees because you're not worried about turnover because this is a long-term play and therefore he invest

in mutual funds for his retirement accounts index funds outside of retirement so there's a time and place for both what do you look for in a

mutual fund though well there's a lot of

pieces of it uh including you know rate

of return the expense ratio what the

fund is made up of who the fund manager

is have they switch the investment team

recently you know if it's been doing great for 30 years and all of a sudden they switch the crew well that's something you want to look out for because things might change and we

actually covered this in depth Matt in our investing Essentials live stream and

I it's not currently available but just

for you I'm going to send you a link to

watch that for free how's that

sound good but um isn't that sort of um

inevitable I mean if if a mutual fund

has a 30-year history with one manager

and I'm 21 and I want to invest for another 30 years you know isn't there

pretty much a guarantee that um the fund

manager is going to change the fund management team sure over time you know

things may change but what you're looking for is that longer term track record and so we we're not going to choose a fund that's been around for a year we prefer the one that has a track

record of 10 or 15 that's have the same

team with the same record of success but

dude that's like saying I don't want to

root for the Yankees or the Astros

because they're going to have different players in a few years Theo the goal is

you hope that they have guiding principles and they have the same desire

to win and they have the same Integrity

over time some teams are better at

Integrity than others with the teams I

just I just labeled I know Kelly's looking at me not the upet but you see what I'm saying like yeah the fund manag is going to roll over but it will change over time man here's the deal we can argue all day and I can tell you like this but you can be a multi-millionaire just from your index funds you don't have to ever touch a mutual fund if you don't want or going to still be friends

you're doing great the key is your savings rate that's the key that's

what's holding people back from having money it's not the discussion of index versus Mutual that's for another time

but for the everyone else listening just freaking invest be like Matt at 21 years

old invest 18 Grand a year you're going

to have money in retirement regardless of where you put it and for what it's worth George and I both put our money in

mutual funds call me a dummy and me too

they they do George they Callies we'll be right back all right Dave you have some strong opinions possibly yeah I think so okay

because you really prefer Credit Unions

over big Banks well Credit Unions for

one thing are uh nonprofit which means

that the members the customers own the

credit union so any profits that the

credit union makes goes back into

customer pricing so you get better

interest rate on savings cheaper checking and so on that kind of thing and and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit

on the credit unions so I find very few

Credit Unions that aren't very customer Centric well and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's

Fairwinds they are an incredible Credit

Union that is really out with the heart to help the customer they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really

good job with customer service and um

the deals that they're offering they're Ramsey tribe is incredible yeah absolutely and I love that they encourage getting out of debt they encourage 15-year mortgages I mean it's

like the things that we teach they so

line up with and you're right their customer service is unbelievable Winston and I just signed up and we got an

account and I'm not kidding it took less than 5 minutes it was so userfriendly

like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says Fair wins on my phone so I answered it and talked to

someone there and they said yeah they give calls to every new customer and so

again they just really care about your

experience and I I so so appreciate that

plus anything that you can do at a traditional Branch you can do with them

at fairwinds.org or on their app and

you'll have free access to over 33,000

ATMs hey you guys know how much I hate

banks in general and so for me to do

this is a big deal talk to our friends

at Fair Winds and check out the combined

checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe you

guys it's incredible yeah you guys it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live so go to fairwinds.org

Ramsey this is the Ramsey Show I'm

George Campell joined by Dr John deloney

this hour open phones at

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have to keep spreading hope in a world

filled with a lot of noise and distractions and hopelessness and so we

try to displace all of that with shows like this and we appreciate all of your help getting the word out Lester is up

next in Dallas Texas how can we help you

Lester hi there uh I was calling to see

about some advice on how to talk with my

wife about saving more than spending my

wife's a spender I'm a saver and we're

aligned on our goals but she just spends

a lot of things here and there and so

just some advice on that was there like a spit Shake on hey here's how much we're going to spend here's what the budget says stick to

it yeah we we've budgeted out a lot of

different things uh we even have it split to where we have our own fund money where it's like a hundred bucks a month that we can spend it on whatever

we'd like but um there's a lot of gifts

and celebrations and things like that that my wife wants to make sure we're showing love to our friends and family

um and then just things add up very

quickly um and then things are

gone is this a communication challenge

or is your wife being spiteful because

there's two different ways to approach

this I I don't think it's I don't think

it's either um my my wife and I

communicate very very well okay um and

frequently about it but and I don't think she's being very spiteful at all she she agrees that um we need to be

saving and we want the we want the

things we want where house and being

able to retire as both of our families

um aren't in that basket at all and don't have a retirement even in their 50s and 60s um and we don't want to do

that but she just kind of forgets about

the things and it doesn't think about the $20 here or $20 there or 100 bucks

here and it just kind of adds up and so

if there's anything that we can do

to try try something different because

we've tried like different cards that only have a certain amount of money on it each month to help limit that but

obviously I don't want her stranded so she has access to a card that um is has

access to the main main fund for gas and

all that kind of stuff but are you guys only using debit cards or are there some credit cards still being used no no no

um we only have debit cards um I I hate

credit I always have um but yeah we only

use debit cards Mo most I I don't mean

to overly gender this but this is just the way it plays out in the real world

most most of the time when I talk to men in your situation they try to solve this

with a plan a

strategy a new card a new spreadsheet a

new commitment

ceremony and the only way I've ever seen

somebody be successful is if they are honest with

their spouse about the story behind the

story the story behind the

strategy MH and that would be you

sitting down and saying

I need to be uh open with you can I tell

you something that's scaring me to

death and her say oh sure honey what's

going on and you say I'm scared about

not having any money and I'm feeling

like um I'm not communicating this well

because every month there's another $250

in gifts and stuff like that and $20

increments and I don't feel like I'm I'm

I'm I'm I'm being fully honest here at

the table and you notice I did two things here number one I was honest I told you told her how you felt you didn't throw a strategy at her and

number two you used the word I not you

keep over spinning and you keep doing that because when she does that man she's going to go back to her childhood she's gonna go to war yeah my guess is she's going to have

to decide I would rather feel the

short-term discomfort of not having a

gift for every single thing that pops up

because I never could buy gifts for anybody or I never got any gifts for anybody and now I can so I feel like I have have to she's going to have to give up that short-term pleasure for the long-term safety of me and my husband

don't have to worry about not having anything to eat and that's hard and I haven't seen a

way to get there without emotion without

without a story without you saying this

is how I feel yeah and if she looks at you and says I

don't care how you feel I'm buying gifts for this thing well now y'all got a deeper issue y'all got to deal

with yeah can you do that

yeah most

definitely the other side of this Lester

when it comes to the Tactical is that

you should be sitting down with her before the month begins going hey what's happening this month a birthday should not be a surprise we know when the birthdays are happening Christmas happens on December 25th every year I check my calendar still happening and so

you kind of know what's coming up and you adjust the budget accordingly so if we need to add a gift line item in the

budget let's do that if we need to add a miscellaneous sort of little catchall of

50 bucks or 100 bucks let's do that so

it doesn't derail our plans well that's often really important because that's

when the $20 plus $20 plus $50 turns

into 310 bucks and she goes oh gosh how

do I do that yeah and the other thing is

we check the budget before we make the purchase so if we go to the gift we go oh gosh I wish we're going to have to do a handmade gift let's make a little basket let's get some roses from the garden let's get Crea basket once John

still has it he loves it it was a great gift so Lester that's where you we come

up with a solution together and have the conversation but there is a part of this

that's that's on her as far as accountability going you need to check the budget before you make the purchase that's how I do it that's how you do it we can't just hope that we lined up with the budget perfectly we use that as our guiding kind of North Star and I think

when you do that you start to add in these line items it starts to be less and less of a surprise you get to kind of align it a little more and on top of

that what is your next goal what is the

thing you guys both agree to is the next thing that we're saving up for well it's not necessarily saving up

for it's like being able to pay off our debts so you're in baby step two correct

so even more in baby step two there's even more intention intentional sacrifice and intensity here where it's going we can't afford to buy people gifts we got to put our own mask on first we're broke and think about how

many gifts we can buy people once we're debt-free with an emergency fund we're

preparing for our future then we can look up for opportunities to give and be

generous MH and so I think that's part

of it is you need to have a plan

together going we're going to pay off $700 a month of debt and here's how

we're going to do it versus we really

need to save more really got to get rid of this debt we need to get more specific so we can actually hit the target ler have you tried any of these things weth throwing at you does it all sound crazy no no no no no yeah and these are

conversations we've had but I agree I haven't been very specific with it my

wife and I are blessed to be in the positions that we're in I mean I'm making more money than I ever thought I would before and it it's not been specific of hey

we're going to spend x amount of dollars on our debt every single month because

we have to it's just been we want to spend more on our debts um and

realistically we don't have a lot of debt um even student loans and medical

debt and things like that included we don't have a lot and So within a year we

could easily have 80% of it paid off um

dud put that in front of her put that

plan in front of her and y'll talk

through it and then more importantly than that plan paint a picture for her of how

you're going to be able to breathe in your own home how you and her are going to have something neither of y'all have ever had which is economic security MH let her just absorb that and

feel her husband radiating this thing

that you've probably never radiated before which is just peace

it makes there's not a lot of gifts I'm going to buy in exchange for my wife's pece for my piece you see what I'm

saying yeah and then by the way once you

get that piece when you like George said you don't owe anybody money you can buy gifts for everybody you could be kind of over the

top and Reckless with who you buy gifts for because you don't owe anybody

money so this little plan this one year

thing we're after this is just part of reverse engineering the picture you painted her so instead of we got to get on a budget you got to spend less it becomes hey remember that's what we're aiming for this is a little blip on that

timeline of intentionality and sacrifice

are you with me yeah and I hope that

helps we're going to gift you every dollar premium luster what are you using right now for a budget when you guys sit down together um pen and paper um and then I

use an Excel sheet and that's kind of it

you if you show a spender an Excel sheet

they implode inside they scienic they

just die so we're going to gift you every dollar premium it's much easier to look at easier to use you both log in you both have accountability so while she's out she can actually check the bud

budget versus Lester's spreadsheet at home so hope that helps Lester we're wishing you the best as you attack this debt that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books thank you to Dr John deloney all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat and you America will be back before you know

[Applause]

it live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm Ramsey personality

George Campbell joined by my best friend

and bestelling author Dr John deloney

he's in the house he's ready to help we

both are so give us a call and let's talk about your life and your money and help you take the right Next Step

regardless of what's going on in your life Joseph kicks us off this hour in

Los Angeles Joseph welcome to the

show thank you how are you guys we're

doing well how are you I'm doing really

good um my question is so uh just give

you a little backstory my wife and I are debt-free we're saving up for our fully

funded emergency fund right now and then

uh we plan on to start investing from

there um to fund our retirement um but

yeah so we're super blessed um grateful

to be debt free but so my question is

though how can

we can we be sure that the dollar is

going to Main main its value over the

next 30 years since we are going to be

investing and following you know what

you guys recommend in like mutual funds

401k like should we be worried about the

economy or what are you guys' take on

that where's that question coming from

it's it's a question I hear all over the the I mean I hear that question everywhere and I've actually lost many

night's sleep over that question where where are you getting it from uh so you know I'm I'm you know I

have some friends and they're talking about you know Bitcoin and all these

cryptocurrencies and I'm not going that

route but I don't have a you know when

they say well what about the dollar I don't really have a good answer or rebuttal as to why dollar is going to

you know maintain its value over

something like cryptocurrency so I just

wanted to get so I guess it's coming from you know what is trending just kind

of in the air yeah I'm going to give you my very um primitive answer and who's

way Smarter on this stuff we'll give you a a more sophisticated answer um

okay can I guarantee anything over the

next 30 years no you can't but here's

what I can can guarantee

you if the US dollar if we woke up one

day and the US dollar had

collapsed as a Global Currency as a as a

localized

currency Bitcoin would not save you

having an alternative oh okay we've got

this special um email account with these

Special zeros and ones and ones and zeros in it that say it's worth

stuff because every every the world's

debt is in US Dollars Bitcoins are bought and traded in US dollar everything revolves around that and so when people are calling for the collapse of the dollar I can't guarantee you it's not going to happen what I will guarantee you is you'll be fending off

your neighbor because they're going to be trying to kill you for your water

like it's it's or you're going to be figuring out how to walk 30 miles to

work to an office that doesn't exist

anymore because there's no gas to put in

a car like it will it will so change the

way we do life for a while that right um

as one of my buddies told me he's a he's a bank executive and he said hey because

I was just peppering him with these questions and it was actually the the response that freed me he looked at me

and said hey man I don't have a meteorite plan I don't have a plan for if the

world gets hit by a meteorite I'm not I'm not building that world up right I

will deal with that if it happens but until then I'm going to do the next best smart right thing that I got which is BU

real estate and invest

wisely right and so I think most most

people don't have a what kind of

scorched Earth it would be if Wall Street goes away

right definitely no that's that's super

good all right that was my that was my uh my my uh dragons and like swords

answer what do you think George I fell asleep about 3 seconds into that jump I I was bored to tear no I'm just kidding that was a really good answer and uh I

have similar things to say but I'll add to that and tell you this my my I grew

up in a very Evangelical household my mom like can't wait for Jesus to come back right like we she sang the songs she watched Left Behind like we were all in and so my thing is always like Jesus

could come back tomorrow and that could waste all of the effort I made trying to save up this retirement account but also

what if it's not tomorrow and I still have to feed my family and I kind of feel the same way about the crypto like

yes the dollar could get devalued I don't think it's going to collapse if that happened we're not worried about crypto like John said we're worried about feeding you know trading for gas

and ammo at that point and so to your

point I'm going to invest 15% into

mutual funds in the stock market because

for decades and decades and decades I know there's a large chance of a 10%

return with crypto I'm losing sleep

because 24/7 that number is moving in

the gold post post is moving and now it's down 50% but now it's up 1,000% and

what if I had just gotten in and instead

I just want to live with peace I want to

sleep well at night I got to go to work

in the morning and so for that reason it's fine to keep those friends around they're probably good guys well-meaning who want to take care of their families too but it's not a peaceful way to live

and so for that reason it's fine to put fun money in Bitcoin but I'm also not

going to do it under the guys of my

paranoia apocalyptic plan that I'm going

to be the one to survive it if I put money in crypto Joseph I'm going to ask a question on your behalf to George is that is that right okay he's smarter on this stuff than I am um yeah George I

remember doing an event uh with Joo once

and at the end of the event he he said to the audience um we were both on stage

there and he said we talk a lot about military stuff

we talk a lot about might and and our

you know Navy Seals ability but he said the thing that the US has it is um the

small business it's the E economics the

economy and as I dug into that cuz I

started asking people like is that true is that I mean is that sounds good from a stage but is that right and what One

Finance wizard told me and again I'm asking you CU because who knows but said

when a country says we're going to devalue the dollar and they have bought

us treasuries they have an invest a vested interest in the US economy that

they actually are going to lower the amount that we owe them and so the

the the advantage we have is if a

country's like we're going to try to crash the dollar then that the

Investments that they have made go away

right it hurts them financially it hurts them significantly and so my

understanding is the world's debt essentially traffics in US Dollars and

so if a group of countries get together like let's crash the dollar you can do that and it may be maybe to your advantage over 100 years but it's going to be ugly right because you're crashing

the amount you're actually owed back yeah and as much debt as we have we have a lot of friends out there John and so they go hey that's my friend you don't mess with them cuz they're protecting us and so it's a very it's you get into

geopolitics and economics and Joseph I'm

not smart enough to answer that question on that end but I just tell you what I what I do what John does and that's

investing in our 401ks and IRAs paying

off our houses and sleeping well at

night not looking at our investments 247

that was Joseph and and George that was

that was what ultimately when I was where Joseph was I was spinning out man I wasn't sleeping for weeks I was asking everybody all the time ultimately I came to what I control here and if it all

goes away if I don't owe anybody anything

then there's not going to be somebody knocking on my door and say that's mine right whether it's a car whether it's a house whether it's land whatever it is if I don't owe anybody anything then there's not going to be somebody somebody might try to come take it but

they're not going to be saying hey that's actually mine and that to me feels like the the smartest hedge is I

don't know anybody anything let's start there Joseph thank you for a great conversation man hope it helped thank

you have a good day you too man this is

the Ramsey Show we'll be right back 8825

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this is the Ramsey Show I'm George Campell joined by Dr John baloney we're

taking your calls at 8825 5225 Danielle joins us up next in

Milwaukee Danielle welcome to the ramsy

show hi thanks for having me absolutely

how can John and I help well I'm calling about a question

regarding paying for my father's phone

bill uh basically my uh my

dad uh lives below the poverty line um

due to his own life choices I've helped

him financially throughout the years uh

and currently I am just paying his phone

bill and I I want to help him and this

has been a way that I've been able to do so but he has been making some

questionable choices and I don't want to

parent him um and and I just I'm not

sure if this is the right thing for me to be doing um yeah I'm happy to give

more color to that it's you know family

it's kind of complicated yeah it's always it always feels so complicated when you're in it and in Georgia and my

seat it's it's usually way less

complicated um can I ask you a hard

question yes are you paying his phone

bill for him or for

you for him I know but are you paying

the bill for him or for you

well I guess I want him to be okay so I

guess for me in that

regard has he listened to any of the

wisdom or advice you've given him over the

years um no not really if behavior is a

language what has he been telling you for a long long time

well I guess that he doesn't value my

input yeah he'll take your money he'll

take your phone bill

cool but when it comes to I want to live

a different life a healthier life a safer life a more loving life yeah I

don't really care about that I'm especially not going to take that crap from

you and then with a healthy dose of who

do you think you are I'm your

dad how have you been chasing

him your whole

life no um I would say when my parents

my parents were married for 35 years and once they divorced I kind of not right

away but you know as he just continued

to make bad choices I sort of unbeknown

to me took the role of my

mom yeah yeah I know it's a weird

position to be in and while you chose to

be there he had part in putting you there and you have a choice also to get

out of this and just say hey Dad listen

I can't cover your phone bill anymore

what would happen if if that were the case what would the conversation be

like at this point it's going to be me

probably writing him a letter um we I

I've tried to this is the second time I

you know I wanted to go out and visit him you lives out of state

and I don't know if he just doesn't want

me to visit him or what but he always

has a way of just you know bringing we

don't always agree on you know kind of

uh everything right and I'm fine to just

leave those things out of the conversation but he has a way of

bringing them up and just would you call this relationship

transactional at this

point no it's not I mean he was a really

good dad to me growing up and he's not a

bad person just makes really bad choices

and doesn't seem to learn from them so

that's why it's you know he's not a bad

guy and it's not about his character but

I'm saying the relationship right now is I pay the bill he doesn't really want to see me doesn't want want much to do with me but please keep paying my phone bill

and thank

you it's it's more nuanced than that but

I mean yeah I realize I'm calling you guys asking you for your I mean is it

more Nuance than that yeah I I really think it is I mean

he you know expressed that he was excited to see me but then he's telling

me you know

he's I don't want to get into I don't

want to take too much of your time but you know he's he went through he's not

even technically divorced um this third

time but he is separated I guess legally

um and he's started these like dat some

kind of dating site I don't know what he's doing and there's been you know

people he's been talking to and you know

I thought all of that was behind him now but he just shared with me that he's been talking to like 30-year-old women

on some weird encrypted app I just don't

understand and now I feel like he's putting my own safety like with my phone

account like linked to his and Jeopardy

and I'm just like yeah your your gut your gut

instinct is

right and there's more to it than this

too yeah

yeah I think if to Circle back to the

first question I asked you is are you paying this phone

bill so that you can sleep at night

knowing I tried to preserve my

relationship with my dad as I watched

him slowly the the man that I love the

good dad that I had um as I watched him

slowly implode his

life um getting involved with all these

people getting married a bunch of times now he's just he slowly just

unwinding often we try to hang on

because something inside of us says that if there's just we say the right thing or we can just give the right amount of data or just just do the right nice kind

thing that suddenly they'll be like oh amazing hey by the way can you help me

with my love life and my money and right

and unfortunately that Call's not going to come so if you want to make if you want

to pay a phone bill and just pay his phone bill and make that a part of your life and and not hope for that that will

have an RO a relational Roi on it great

knock your lights out George and I let's just say make sure you're not putting that on credit card right um if you're

just tired of being involved with all

this and now you're wondering what he's even doing on on an encrypted app that's

that's linked to you and your bank account dude let's just I'm goingon

write a letter and sayon I'm a step away from this yeah and then you're going to have

to spend some time in this scary um uh

black hole called grief it's not

supposed to be like this your parents are married for 34

years yeah here here's the spark notes

if a cell phone bill is propping up with a relationship and this is one Jenga piece that knocks the whole thing down

there was never a relationship there and that's the hardest scariest part to face

is that whatever was I know he's a good

guy he was a great dad but the it's

changed the relationship's changed and I think that's the hardest part to grieve is the guy he was and the guy he is

now and I know you know this but I feel

I feel compelled to say it you didn't do anything wrong

Daniel you've been a good

daughter there's not a thingly tried I

know but there's not a thing you could have done differently in a conversation you didn't have he's your dad he's a

grown man he's way older than you he got he's made adult choices and there's like we we we told

the previous caller there's just nothing harder than watching someone you love love um flush their life away especially

when you're standing there on on the bank of the river saying I can help I

can help and they're like n I'll just stay here it's heartbreaking what what is his

portion of the cell phone bill I'm just curious what's the financial

amount um maybe like 70 bucks or

something like that so if it was on him to cover 70 bucks from now on do you think he could do it no I think he'd have to go back to

like a flip phone

that's the best thing great idea for

honestly ever since he got this iPhone

and he's had more time on his hands I

just don't even understand what's going on over there but yeah I might keep him

out of jail I think it's a good idea

seriously yeah something's something's

weird yeah I'm so sorry Daniel that is

not a fun thing to deal with the theme

so far of the show John has been you cannot change people no no matter what

you want to give them or cover for them

it's not going to going to make the relationship better and it's not going to solve their problems you can create

good boundaries you can be graceful and

merciful and forgiving and then you can

do the next right thing for you and for

your relationship and sometimes that's walking away or sometimes that's just saying I'm taking my hands off the wheel you're driving cool I'll be here when you're ready more of your calls coming

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/ budget welcome back to the Ramsey Show

I'm George camel my co-host today is Dr

John deloney open phones at 8825

5225 our question of the day is brought

to you by y refi if you're in default with private student loans contact y

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Ramsey that's

yy.com Ramsey may not be available in

all states all right today's question

comes from Scott in Michigan Scott

writes I have been in the Auto industry

for almost six years I started as a

mechanic at a large dealership moved up to service advisor and recently was promoted to Sales Consultant I bring in

about $150,000 a year after reading

George campell's Breaking Free from broke in the chapter about car loans I

felt guilty for being a part of this industry way to go George sorry you

guilt pedler I've always thought of

myself as an honest salesperson and I

don't just sell people a car I try to

educate my customers into making the right decision but yet I feel very

convicted after reading this chapter

thanks again George I went to college

for business management but dropped out so that I wouldn't accumulate any more debt and I've been gazelle intense so

that me and my wife and kids or My Wife and Kids think I've gone crazy I fear that if I pursue another career I would not be able to earn what I currently make because the Auto industry is the one I know is it hypocritical to

continue to work in an industry that keeps people in debt while working my butt off to get myself out of debt hey

Dave can I come work for you honestly we

are hiring Scott so we have a lot of sales rolls open at Ramsey solutions.com

careers but that's for another day to

your question truthfully here's my take

John might have a completely different take I feel like we need Scott in the

car industry we need people with Integrity who leading people to the right decision who aren't scum burgers

and it's easy to generalize an entire industry as this is a gross industry but

I think what Scott's doing here is Noble

it's moral there's no issues with it uh

if you are in The Lending department and it eats away at your soul you need to get out of there but as a as the

salesperson it's not your job to say hey

here's the lending part here's the financing part they're going to go to another guy to deal with the financing you're there to say hey what is your

budget here here's a car that is in your budget and then if they have questions along the way you can steer them to go hey this one might be better for you guys I want to I want you guys to walk away from here debt-free there's nothing wrong with that as a salesperson and yeah you might not get as many commissions as going you should get the car that's way too expensive because it

has the sweet feature I think we need people with Integrity steering people toward that so you think um you Scott

can can sit down with people and say okay until it eats away at his soul what

kind of money you to pay I think a

coroll is a great option for you instead

of saying oh they just walked in the door let's get them in a Land Cruiser even though we know they can afford the payment right um so they may be the

voice of reason and there's a people are

adults when they buy cars and they could always it's not on you they don't feel the personal responsibility of that person's decision to buy a car they can't afford and I want to address the

the the bottom of this

um and this is this is a heavy

one this idea that for whatever reason

and we live in a wild world now where

because of Twitter and because of social

media and we know how our bosses vote we

know who they vote for we know what they think about this issue and that issue and we know where they stand on this and this not to mention Oh I thought I was

selling cars I didn't realize that y'all only make money on finance right we we

know so much more millions of people look in the

mirror and say can I be a part of this

particular business for X Y and Z

reasons cuz I've got this set of values and somewhere along the way in this chain of value hierarchies we don't

align the question often comes up but I

won't make this kind of money a I think

that's a false sense of scarcity if

you've been able to work yourself up like clearly this guy is good at what he does he's a personate character he works

really hard because he's moved from this position to this he continues to get promotion so let's let what has happened

be the map forward you'll find a new industry and you'll work really hard you'll be a person of integrity you'll make your way through he's a problem solver that's right that's the skill set he's clearly a good leader or they wouldn't keep moving him up that's number one number two you always have to

go back and ask yourself what's your integrity worth and that's a scary hard

question that's a scary hard question for a guy like me right like what if it

in my core guts I just thought at the

end of the day when I put my head on my pillow I think you can get rich from

airline miles and my boss Dave is like

you can't get rich with airline miles

I'd have to ask myself what's it worth

right what's it worth um and so I think in congruence every

day and I just haven't been able to find

a way to sleep at night when when um

there's in congruence in your life like that and so I think all of us have to ask that hard question and then go ask

all right what must be true right but

your kids will feel that lack of congruency your spouse will feel that lack of congruency your body will feel

that lack of congruency so you might think you're just plugging along making such and such paycheck but man it will

it will burn the rest of your life to the ground it's tough it's tough so if you can be a change angent change angent

here Scott and stay in it and make peace with it and not eat away at your soul do

it and keep helping people but if you can't like John's saying then you got to make the move out of here and I we both believe you have the skill set to move into any other industry and know that

the other industry they probably also sell stuff that someone can Finance so

can I can I tell you there's there was a

pivotal moment in my life from a um a

friend and extraordinary mentor of mine his name is Dr Richard Beck he's a psychology Professor he's an experimental psychologist he's a genius

literal one day I was sitting with him

and some things had happened to some students um and I was really struggling

with it um whether the University's

response was appropriate I I it didn't sit well with me so I went and sat with

him and here's what he said he said John

like I get your your tension here I get

The Angst and I think you're right like

as a as a mentor as a friend you're I want you to know you're free to go like you're right and then he said just know

that if you leave those students will

still be here and if everybody runs out

the door just because quote unquote because they

can right and that particular

interaction shifted so now I want to

find places where maybe I can offer an

alternative Voice or maybe I can say

well what let's think of bit this way and where can we find where can we like

I love you said this Scott this may be

the greatest place for you you may be

the one salesperson that continues to say you know what I don't think you can afford the Camry but the Corolla is an amazing car let's go check it out and

that you're the person con constantly

getting poked fun at by your fellow salespeople because your commission checks are smaller because you keep directing people to cars that they can actually afford you know what the new lot is not for you guys let's go over here to the certified new lot because I think this is going to be a better option for you in your family long term what if you were that guy and you slowly

pay fully changed the culture in in that

and people kept coming back to you because they trusted you well that word of mouth alone I'm going to go hey you need to go see this guy Scot go see

he'll tell you the truth it's so much easier to stand out in a industry filled

with scum because you're the one good guy so if you if if there's a place where your boss votes differently than I quit okay or what if you stayed what if

you stayed and what if you said let's

think about it this way what if you became over time a voice of reason a

voice of A New Perspective and you continue to show up and continue to show up I think that's how the world changes if everybody heads for the exits when it gets hard and scary and uncomfortable nothing changes in fact everything gets more polarized and everything gets harder and so ask yourself that question

Scott and everybody listening what if you stayed what if you stayed and you

would just begin to slowly offer

different ways to see the world I just I think that's how the world changes well and especially in this industry cars are aoral now if this was a product that is

inherently gross if he's working for a

Payday or title Pond I'd say I get out

of there that whole place is like Dan the the cocaine dealer probably it's a

car suddenly I can't it's a car it has

utility so uh this was a Choose Your Own

Adventure Scott we're not going to tell you to do one thing or the other but uh you need to follow your conscience and your values and the fact that you wrote in maybe tells me it might be time for a different career shift who knows here you go or you come here uh work for ramsy and thanks for reading the book by the way I didn't know I was that convincing John that's amazing yeah yeah

you've convinced me on some things really yeah to do what um name one uh

got venmo oh that's right you convinced

me to get venmo you've almost convinced me um I was in Pennsylvania two nights ago and I reached out to you and said hey will you Sean doesn't know how to do

like instacart sh as a surprise to my

family and um and I said John I'm not

your personal assistant I'd be happy to do that for my hourly rate which you can't afford I can't afford he can't afford that I can't afford that but I would do it as a friend but you did convince me to get venmo and I may get uh uh what instacart baby steps I think

I'm G get take it one day at a time John

wel welcome 21st century here I come

this is the Ramsey Show hey George camel

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employee benefit Research Institute

recently did a study asking how many people have a million dollar safe for

retirement according to their research only 3.2 of Americans have a million

dollars or more in their taxed Advantage

accounts like a 401k and IAS 58% of

Americans have less than $10,000 saved

in their retirement

accounts dude that that's dark stuff

that's I had no idea it was that bad 60%

six out of 10 Americans basically could could do a

month and a half in a retirement home

that's it as a listener of the Ramy show

are you staying on track with the baby steps to reach your financial goals here's the deal take a quick quiz to

check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you simply

head to the show notes click on the link titled are you on track with the baby steps and complete the free quiz if you

are one of the six out of 10 Americans that have less than 10 grand there is a

light for you but you got to get on it

right you have to you got to begin to act differently George that would that would freak me out that would scare me to death yeah and people think it's a life sentence they think they're their DNA inherently has this in them where they go well I'm just going to I'm a broke person John you can change you can

just snap your fingers and go I don't want to live like this I want to change my family tree I don't have to retire broke and so this quiz will help you

start to take the next step figure out where you're really at if and if you just look at man basic demographic

data this same six out of 10 who have

less than 10,000 I'll go as high as 70% 80% that

are that are fragile

it's about the same stat that are living paycheck to paycheck but also everybody

knows that they're they're ringing the bell saying hey uh your Social Security

is going to be less than like we're we're not solvent here in the next 10 15

20 years by 2034 they're going to reduce

the benefit by 27% so there is it already wasn't that

high it's a slow car crash

coming you got to be your own financial

plan act today act today act today check

out the show notes are you on track with the baby steps complete the free quiz stare down this anxious moment in your life and begin to do something different

let's go to Stamford Connecticut and talk to James what is up

James everything above the nose John and

George how's the day fing you excellent

the same what's up excellent I need some advice we're

going to tread a little bit carefully because I am trying my best to thread

the needle with my mother-in-law she

keeps giving Financial and career advice

to my family specifically my wife that

do not work for our family situation and

really do not work in 2024 so James you

do not have a problem with your mother-in-law she is your proxy W you

have a problem with your

wife I I I would think that you are

probably correct I am worried that my

wife is going to listen to her mother uh

my my mother-in-law was able to raise

four children in the midwest through the 80s and 90s uh without working she I

don't believe has ever worked a 40-hour

a week job in her life she couple of

days you know helping out at this Nursery School couple of days here so

what do you disagree on with your mother-in-law what does she want your wife to do stay at home well yes

basically all of the uh advice that

she's giving involve things around we

have two children under six and and it's

comments along the lines of you know when both the kids are out of daycare my

wife works as a daycare teacher as well

um when the kids are out of daycare uh

you can leave that job and just teach music lessons I make 60 an hour teaching

music lessons and that's great but that

doesn't make up for the income that we

need in order to live where we here's

the thing who

who I have the greatest mother-in-law

who's ever lived she's amazing and I expect my mother-in-law to

give the advice that she sees fit for

how she wants the world to work I I

acknowledge that too but when it comes

to the life that me and my wife have to

build for ourselves she doesn't get a

vote and so your your mother-in-law can

say whatever she wants good for her that's awesome it's amazing she's not

the problem here the problem here is is

you and your wife are not on the same page

and so it doesn't do it doesn't matter what your brother-in-law's saying it matters that you look at your wife and

your wife says Hey I want to stay home and you say we can't afford to do that

or we can but here's what it's going to cost you have to sell the car we can't

live in this particular house or in this particular neighborhood yeah and at this point we're having to have this conversation about every six to nine months or so and

I've tried showing my wife the math and

that it does not work so James I'm hearing your wife wants to stay home if

she could have it her way she would stay home is that true I think that she gets the

impression that she is working to pay

for daycare and nothing else and that

once the children are out of daycare that that need might

disappear and then she wants to stay

home I think so I think part of it may

be a byproduct to that's the home environment that she was raised in so

she has seen it work but that I don't

think is realistic or sustainable I want

you to reverse engineer y dream that you

decide together and that might mean okay

here's the math of it we can't do this right now here's why but if she says hey

my dream is really I want to stay home

and you want to support that dream then you go let's do the budget what's it going to take okay I need to do this this many more music lessons we need to do this we need to cut our Lifestyle by this to get in a financial place in order to do this so I think you're she's

the wow you're the how and you're going we we have no way to actually accomplish

this but then there's also the part of

you don't want this to happen right now

so this is really like John said this is between you and your wife she wants to stay home you don't want her to stay home take the Mother-in-law out of it yeah you keep crafting all these stories and imaginations like well it's probably because of this and maybe it's it doesn't matter just forget all the story

Parts just sit down and look at the woman that you've made humans with look

at the woman that you said I do till death to his part like what kind of Life do we want to have what do you want this house to feel like when we get home every day how much are you making a year James

just just you

uh just myself about 60,000 and are you

doing music lessons full-time no mother-in-law does music uh

my wife no she's a music teacher by trade what are you doing full time I uh am a program director for a

mediumsized nonprofit okay okay so I

think we also need to go okay if this is

in the future my wife staying home we're going to be a one- inome family what changes do I need to make what education do I need to get what career moves do I need to make in order to sustain a good

life for my family

and that's the part that I think scares you is this involves you having to

change too or at least it involves y'all having

to have a truthful conversation about

hey what do I want what do I what I what do I really want I really want to work at this job I love my nonprofit work and

I know I make half of what I could make in the in the in the for-profit world

but I feel valued and loved here and then your wife looks across the table and says I really want to stay at home

with their kids I see what happens in daycares I want to be with their kids

okay now we have a desires challenge both of us are being honest both of that's on the table now we're just going to look at them at at math does not care

about what we want math is just math so

let's look at the math problem we have here and maybe it's for three years I'm

going to stay at this nonprofit but I'm going to work an extra job so that you can stay home because I know that's important to you and maybe it's you know

what for three years I'm going to keep working at daycare because at least I get to see the kids half the day and we're not netting a lot of new income but this mission that you're called to it does not nonprofit is really important but now yall are actually talking substantively you're being honest with one another and you're putting your hearts and minds and souls on the table like you promised each other you would at your wedding and your

mother-in-law doesn't get a

vote but right now when your wife says

well my mom says that I that's her

knowing if I she just tells you what she wants you're going to blow by her with a

spreadsheet and when your wife says um

something and you go well it's just your mother-in-law speaking that's you not being able to say every really love my

work it means something to me do you get

what I'm saying let's just take mother-in-law out of the equation let's just talk directly with your wife is that

possible yeah yeah most of the time you

sound like a um actually you sound a lot

like me brother you sound like a spreadsheet guy you can pull up a

spreadsheet and you can make the math work or you can be real honest about it not working I want you to sit down with

your wife and talk about emotions and feelings which is Maybe be a scary thing

here's how I feel about this here's what I want I feel like your mother-in-law has a seat at our table at dinner table

I feel like your mom has a seat in our

bedroom I don't want her in here anymore I want it to be us what world do we want

to create thank you so much for the call

my brother this is the Ramsey Show

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## 154. Stop Letting Other People Wreck Your Finances | October 23, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `r91QqrohlO8` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r91QqrohlO8) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:02:13 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel. So, we're here to take your calls. Give us a call at 888255225.

Up first, we have Shawn in Springfield, Illinois. Hey, Sean, welcome to the show. >> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I'm a huge fan. >> Oh, well, thanks for calling in. How can we help? Um, so basically

my question is, should I take a loan to

pay off a debt? That way I have a little bit of breathing room so I can start baby step one.

>> Should you take >> Explain the math on that one. You're going to take out a loan to pay off another loan and that somehow gives you breathing room. >> Aren't you just swapping one payment for another?

Yes, but uh if I took out the loan, I'd

have a smaller payment because right now

uh the loan is $500 a month. And that

plus rent plus my uh car payment and all my other insurance and groceries and all that puts me just barely making it by

every month. >> What would the payment be?

Uh, it'd probably be closer to $100 a

month instead of 500 >> by dragging it out.

>> Uh, yeah.

>> Okay. >> So, it's a $400 swing. How much are you making a year?

>> Uh, without overtime about 40,000.

>> Okay. Are you doing overtime now?

>> Uh, I'm getting as much overtime as I can and uh it's kind of our slow season right now. So, whenever I'm not at work, I'm door dashing. >> Yeah. to make some extra money.

>> Mhm. What do you do?

>> Uh I work in agriculture. So I drive I

move fertilizer to the fields and apply

it. >> Okay. Yeah. So getting into winter months, you guys aren't >> What's your total debt?

>> Uh my total debt is 20,000.

>> And what is that? Break that down for us. Uh 17 of it is for my car and the other

3,000 is for this debt that's currently

that I'm talking about.

>> Okay. For your car, have you Kelly blue booked it to see what you could sell it for? >> Yeah. Uh it on a private party is worth

about 11.

>> Okay. So you're six grand underwater there. And you're saying the 3k debt has a $500 a month payment.

Uh yeah, it's currently I believe it's

considered in collections. Uh it's $250

every paycheck for 11 more weeks

>> and then you're done.

>> Well, 11 more payments when I'm done.

Yes. >> I mean, Sean, I'll be honest. No, I probably wouldn't switch it because I feel like when you're getting out of debt or you're starting baby step one even, it's this gazelle intensity where you are working every minute of every waking day, if possible, you're door dashing on the week. I mean, you are you're figuring out a way to get out of debt faster.

So, and a part of me kind of wants you just to figure out how to do it because this is going to help you get out of debt faster. $500 a month as a minimum payment um versus spreading it out. And I understand you're trying to get that margin, but I would pick up that $400 somewhere else >> from from an income perspective, honestly, because yeah, I feel like that this this is the reason why you would be gazelle intense. Like, this is this will fuel you >> and instead of kind of like slow you down because there's almost a level of I understand what you're saying that yeah, that $400 a month.

get $1,000 in the next 30 days. So, I

don't know how you're going to do it, but like that's that's the baby step one. intensity. It's not slowing down the payments so that I can have more margin to do baby step one. It is we're going above and beyond our normal to be able to find extra money >> because that 3,000 debts your smallest.

So that's the next one to attack. So I'd rather you putting more toward the principal which is the 500 than putting 100 toward it just so you can get your baby step one. The the key here is finding the the secret sauce in your income to be able to do the baby steps, not to move the debt around and add more debt in order to try to make it work because that's not changing any behavior that got us here. And also that car is half your income. So that's another glaring issue here.

And you're way underwater on Did you roll over negative equity? Why is it worth so little?

Uh, so I got the car the beginning of

September and uh I needed a vehicle.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it already dropped 6,000. It dropped 6,000 in like 60 days.

>> I am like 90% positive I overpaid for it.

>> So you got hosed at the dealership?

>> Do what? I'm sorry. Did you get hosed at a dealership? Like, who sold you this car? Like, who hates you that much?

>> Yeah, it's uh it was car-wise, so you

know, the whole one dime down, take a car home today kind of.

>> So, and you probably got a crazy high.

What's the interest rate on this?

>> Uh 23%. >> There we go. Ding, ding, ding. Gosh, >> we have a winner. Okay, >> that sales guy must have just been like on his smoke break like you would not believe this. 23% on this last >> Come on, Sean. He already made the mistake. >> I know. I'm just like, you went in there for a vehicle, right? Just something reliable.

>> Yeah, cuz my truck had just broken down.

>> I'm trying to make this like help me and everyone understand like what happens in these scenarios. So, you go in and you say, "Here's the payment I can afford." And they go, "We can make that work." >> Uh, yeah, pretty much.

>> Which that's normal, Sean. I don't know why George is being so >> I'm not I'm just I'm trying to show people the tricks of the dealership.

>> That's right. that is >> because someone else is about to fall for that who's desperate for a reliable >> and it's the urgency that they pick up on my my truck is dead and people are like perfect I got a guy who pay you desperation is here we can do it so don't fall for it people everyone listening >> um so Sean I almost would be curious if you went down to your credit union and got a $10,000 loan paid off the difference of the truck got a $4,000

crappy car off some highway in Illinois

and called it a day and I'd rather have $10,000 and a less payment and not paying 23% interest.

>> Yeah. What's your payment? What does that free up to attack that 3,000?

>> If you didn't have the car payment, what's the car payment?

>> My car payment currently, like for the car I have right now, my car payment is 461 a month.

>> Okay. That gets you your baby step one in two months, just if you free up that car payment without doing any other changes to your life. Yeah. And I would be working as much overtime as you can, as much Door Dash and side hustles as you can and see is there room to grow in this agriculture field because it it kind of worries me that like if this is the top, we got to find something else.

>> A average I mean household is around 67,000 just to kind of give you a ballpark. >> So you you know 40,000 I mean yeah you're you're you're kind of under you're under that. So I just wonder what else is out there for you from your from a primary income perspective how to get that up. there is room to grow and I do get a uh 3% raise every year.

>> That's going to take a while to get to, you know, 50 60 because what we're looking at is the next 5 years, not just to get out of this debt. And so I'm looking for your future, Sean, to go, how can Shawn build some wealth? How can Shawn become a homeowner one day and have money to invest on top of just surviving and covering the bills? And right now, you're in that paycheck to paycheck survival cycle.

>> Yeah. So Sean, I think if we woke up in your shoes, we would probably go get like a $10,000 loan from the credit union, sell the car, pay off the difference, take some of that money and go and buy a crappy car. Um, keep your

$500 payments and find the margin

through the income perspective uh to get that $1,000. I'd make it a goal. Do it in the next four weeks. Find $1,000 in four weeks selling stuff, whatever you got to do. Um, and then start attacking that $3,000 debt because you'll get that paid off. I think you're going to start feeling some momentum, but there's got to be a real big sense of urgency on your end.

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>> Up next we have is it is it Corin?

>> Karen >> Karen from Little Rock, Arkansas. Hi,

welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. Thank you so much.

>> Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in.

How can we help?

>> Um, so I wrote this out, so here we go.

It's not long. I just didn't want to get it wrong. >> So, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm a stay at home mom of two kiddos. Just started homeschooling this year, and my husband works at a pastor as a pastor at a church, and he currently does not make

enough money for our family to live off of. And so, how do I navigate a conversation about looking for a new job all while trying to make sure that we are following God's plan for my husband's call and ministry?

>> Interesting. What's he making?

>> Uh 58,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, we're not like poverty level here. I thought he was like a youth pastor making, you know, $30,000 and it was a struggle, but 58,000. Do you guys have debt?

Um, we have only about like four 5,000 in debt, 2,000 on our car, and then we had to borrow money from my father-in-law, 2500. Um, I actually

picked up a contract job to kind of help

pay off that debt. Um, but it's causing a lot of stress with just balancing home

making, homeschooling, you know, all the

different levels of being a mom. Um, >> so, so anyway, I don't want to do that long term. It's definitely helpful in the meantime, but it's not like the vision that we had for a family with >> How much um would you say um in your

monthly budget if you had x amount more per month would make you feel >> like have some breathing room and a little bit more comfortable?

Uh, I mean even like

1 to 2,000 extra because when I was before um doing

this contract work, but I've only done it for 3 months, it we were doing food banks and stuff. So, >> um, we're at that level and that sounds

crazy because you're like, you know, they're not $30,000. It is almost twice as much as that. But um it's just >> Do you guys have a pretty detailed budget, would you say, on what you spend on um groceries and gas and like I mean

do y'all is it pretty laid out that you guys have boundaries around categories and what you're spending?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Definitely. >> And what's your mortgage?

>> Our mortgage is 2,000. So it's about half of our income.

>> Okay. >> That explains a lot of it. >> That's probably a lot of it. Honestly, >> that's where that extra >> thousand dollars. um that you're looking for that you need breathing room is tied up in the mortgage payment.

>> Um >> yeah. How much do you guys have left on the house?

>> Oh, we just moved here uh to the area

last year. Um so we're house broke. Kind of like scrambled to move here for this job because we felt like that's what God was calling us to do. >> Okay. >> Bought the house out of budget. Um and so that's kind of now we're like, "Yeah, now what?" you know, kind of a situation

>> for sure. Yeah. I mean, from I mean,

does the church if you if you talk to him, is is he um I mean, I hate to just

say like go get a raise from your church. >> But has he talked to his leadership?

>> Is there is there an elder board? Is there a Is there anyone that he's going to that knows or does he even know that you feel this way?

>> Yeah, we No, definitely he knows. um the

church is is not uh as healthy as it

should be. And so the conversations he has had has have kind of been like check back in in 6 months. Let's check back in, you know, at the new fiscal year to see what we can how we can do anything.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> what would he be doing if he wasn't a pastor? If he went and go went and got a different job, >> I don't know. He's been a pastor his entire worship pastor, so it's not like a lead pastor. He's but he's been one his entire adult life. That's how I met him as a pastor and had kids all while all while all while doing >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh 34. >> Okay. Okay. >> Here's my take the it might be a fallacy

that he's going to go out and get a job paying more than 60 doing something else tomorrow. >> Like that might be a pipe dream right now. >> And so what I've seen and this is pastors in my life. You know, I I was a part of a church plant and the pastor was bivocational and so he did handyman

work and woodworking and started an Etsy store on top of his pastoral duties. So, I think he needs to start doing that on the side. And maybe that thing turns full-time and maybe God blesses him at the church and things get healthier and he gets a raise there. But at least then we kind of have a better clue as to what the next step is.

>> Is he open to doing side work?

Um, I don't know. We've never talked about it before. >> Does he go in 40 hours a week to the

church? >> Oh, yeah. Or or more. Yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah. From And I wonder his responsibilities there. I mean, they're paying him, I guess, you know, a full salary. So, I'm assuming that, yeah, there's stuff to be done and he has responsibilities there. Um, yeah. I mean, >> the I mean, the biggest glaring thing to me, I hate to say, is the house. I just think you guys bought too much of a house. If you stayed within that 25% range of your income, which is what we teach, that would be um you know,

>> which means you would >> $800 probably. Yeah. $800 back into the

paycheck of what you're looking at. So either he makes a career shift if he doesn't see an income going up >> um soon, right? And the church, you know, again, I'm not making them the bad guy by any means, but it is what they have and that's what they have. That's the salary that you guys took to come here.

Um, but if you can't make that work as a family, then I think you guys do need to have a bigger conversation as a family. And I think, you know, and I know you know this, but just encourage you like service and doing work as a believer unto the Lord can look a thousand different ways. And I know in ministry specifically, people can get very comfortable in that world. It's the only world they've known.

So, even to step out into something that's totally different kind of feels scary and all of that, but but again, that's your personal conviction of what you guys feel led to and called to.

it it's I don't know. It's hard for me to navigate it because I don't know you guys personally and what you know what I'm saying? >> We can't be like, "Well, how do you know that's God's calling? If you say it, we believe it." You know what I mean?

And so, there's a piece of this where we go, "Well, someone's got to sacrifice. Either you need to give up the dream of being a stay-at-home mom. he needs to give up the dream of being a pastor cuz right now being stressed and broke that's not of the Lord. I think we can all at least agree on that.

Like that's not a good future uh where we're going to thrive. And so it's going to need to be some give and take here. And it might be some of it temporary the side jobs to just clean up the debt, get a good emergency fund, then reassess where we're at and can we still >> accomplish all of our goals, cover the bills, invest for the future. If we can, then great.

Yeah. >> I have a feeling though we're going to need to see some income shift if we're going to keep up our current lifestyle and keep the house.

>> Four and six. >> Four and six. Okay. So, they would be starting kindergarten next year and second grade, I guess. >> Uh yeah. Right. Yeah.

>> Um Yeah. And so that's and that's the hard thing about in today's world and a lot of people that call in you know are in a very similar boat we're in where you know you have these you have you have your your wish list of what you want life to look like. You want to be a stay at home mom. You want to homeschool.

Your husband wants to do ministry. You want to live in this house. You you want to you know this is the wish list of life that you start to live out. And then you realize oh gosh but there is a reality and this is not >> this is not negative of what God's will is.

there's a reality of living in 2025 that that the numbers have to work. You know, you just it is what it is. So, something on that list, the prioritization of what you guys value is going to have to shift.

I don't know if that is him shifting. I don't know what that looks like, but that's a value system that you guys have to paint for your family and where you guys feel comfortable um to figure out how to make this math work. But um yeah, and yeah, the house the house is hard for me. >> It's just an immovable object unless we sell it and downsize.

And I don't know if you can rent in Little Rock with a family of four for way less, right? So that's the other part of this. It's just hard. I mean, the housing market's tough.

I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I think it will unlock some things for your husband, maybe even for you to figure out what are the things in the short term or long term we can be doing to create a more sustainable future for ourselves. Yeah. So, hang on the line will gift you that. And I hope he realizes that there there might be more than this church job and maybe he can do ministry outside of that in the public or private sector.

>> Yeah. Or on the side like what you were saying, you know what I mean? what how do how do we make the numbers work for our family? What does that look like?

And I think staying, you know, the God's will, his calling, that's a very sub I

don't know. That's a very subjective card to play and that's different for everyone. But I do think you can do incredible work for the kingdom and it doesn't have to be in the walls of the church. >> Amen. [Music]

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So start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the app store or on Google Play. All right, up next we have Gabe in Kansas City. Hi, Gabe.

>> Hi, how are you guys? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so how do I stop spending

everything I make so I can start reaching financial goals for myself?

>> Oh, interesting. What are you spending money on?

>> Well, honestly, um, mostly Door Dash.

Um, but then just random stuff. Like I always find a way, no matter how much money comes in the paycheck, to spend it all. >> It's fair. >> Love will find a way. Have you thought about uh like deleting the Door Dash app and forcing yourself to go inside of a grocery store?

>> Yeah. Well, I actually didn't. I did that like two days ago. Um and like you

said, love will find a way. It's just like a creeping addiction, you know?

>> So, you see like the zucchini you bought three days ago and you're like, "Ah, Door Dash sounds better. I'm redownloading it. >> Oh yeah. >> Like going back to an abusive ex >> to a zucchini. Why don't you at least say like >> Well, we all aspirational grocery shop.

You know what I mean? We're like, you know what? I'm going to eat a zucchini.

>> I'm going to eat a whole bag of spinach.

>> I saw a good Instagram air fryer zucchini recipe. I'm going to >> whole thing of spinach. >> Well, Gabe, but here's the thing. What are your financial goals? Cuz I think they have to be big enough and powerful enough to fuel your love of Door Dash to stop that. >> Yeah. Well, first is get a car. Then

after that, a house and then after that crack the million mark in net worth.

>> Love it. Those are great goals. >> Okay, >> that's the American dream summed up.

>> What are you doing for a living right now? >> Uh right now it's not good. I'm actually um working for the master I feed. I door dash a lot from >> Wait, what?

>> Well, no wonder it's easy cuz you're around it all the time. Like this Taco Bell. >> Wait, do you drive for Door Dash? >> I'll pay myself to do it again.

>> Okay. You're not working for like Door Dash corporate. You're like a >> No, he's a door dasher. He's >> Okay. How old are you? >> Running around food for people.

>> Yeah. >> How old are you? >> I'm 20. >> Under 20. Okay. >> Are you in school? Did you not go to college? What happened?

>> Yeah. Well, I'm in school for business management right now.

>> Okay. What do you want to do with that?

Well, um, ideally, you know, um, get a

short-term management job to kind of build up a nest egg and then go out on my own and >> try my hand at the entrepreneuriality of

I can't talk. You're good. >> So, you want to work in management of something like is it retail, is it corporate? Have you sort of drilled down into that to what you'd be most into?

Yeah, I'd be most into corporate, but obviously if someone offers me a job paying more than Door Dash is, I'll take it at this point. >> Have Okay. How much longer in school?

>> Yeah. When you graduate?

>> Uh, I'm expecting next summer.

>> Okay. >> Cash flowing it or are you going to debt? >> I'm cash flowing it. >> Great. >> Do you have any debt?

>> I have $200 in credit cards.

>> Okay, we got that. It's good. Um, okay,

Gabe, you know what I'm gonna say?

You're I'd say you're a typical 20-year-old guy. I don't think there's anything wrong with you. I think you need a little bit of motivation. Um, and I think when you're in school, you have a part-time job. Um, you know, you got to just float your expenses. I mean, are you living at home? How what what are you doing like for rent and all of that?

>> Yeah. No, right now I'm living at home, which probably doesn't help the spending, but >> Yeah. Well, it's fine. I mean, you're in college. I think that's totally appropriate. Um, so what do you have to pay for? What are the things that are you're responsible for?

>> Uh right now it's just my phone and gas.

>> Phone and gas. Okay. >> And what are you making every month?

>> Uh naturally it varies, but it's usually about two grand a month.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Because if I'm you, I have very little motivation to even go work when my only two things I need to survive is covering a phone bill and gas. >> And because you're a full-time college student, so you're in co you're you're in college.

Um which I don't think is bad. >> Yeah, that's great. You're in college, you're doing well in your classes, you're going to graduate on time.

And so, you can do this. You can even automate some of this. I don't always recommend that for people because I kind of like people's behavior to change because they're actually the ones doing it. But for you, I would almost say, yeah, make make it a goal where you save, you know, half of that. Maybe you save what if you saved $1,000 a month cuz how much does your phone and gas cost? >> Not much. It usually shakes out to around three 400.

>> Okay. So, yeah. What if you gave yourself 600 bucks to spend on how you

want and then save half of your income and you do that for the next golly six months, you'd have $6,000 when you graduate. That'll help you upgrade a car and actually start moving. But, but you can even go in and automate some of this. like you can, you know, set up some systems in place with online banking and that kind of thing that when your paycheck hits um >> it's like pay yourself first.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I'd be giving some too. I think there there's a practice of generosity in there.

Practice the saving part and then you can still enjoy some of it. So, I think you're in a good spot. I think it's just the habits and the routines uh monthtomonth that you need to change. And when you kind of get those in place, you start to be disciplined. you start to know what you're doing. You're telling your money what to do. And then when you graduate and you get your first job, those habits just go in from a

$2,000 a month um to maybe a $5,000

$6,000 a month salary. And you know, you've you've changed the way that you handle your money. Literally, your behavior changes.

>> Okay. >> I was exactly like you, Gabe. I'm looking back at when I was >> you were not that much of a spender.

>> No. But when I was living at home, I was working in the Apple store. >> Yeah. And every paycheck would just go to like gear and just spend. I didn't I wasn't saving any of it. >> Well, because there's no urgency. >> Exactly. I was living at home. And so I just I remember feeling that way, Gabe.

And what unlocked it for me was getting out of the house. I moved across the country, started fresh, finished school, and that sort of put a new pep in my step to go, listen, mom's not going to save you with her home-cooked meals.

>> I don't think move out though. Do you >> I'm saying once he graduates though, he should just go ahead and find an actual job. >> Natural. Don't stick around home saying, "Well, I could save up for a house faster." And then all of a sudden you spent 500 bucks on Door Dash.

>> Yes. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So, when you graduate, you need to move out. That needs to be >> create some problems for yourself cuz we are wired to solve problems. And right now, you just don't have many, which is not a bad thing, but if you want to accomplish your financial goals, you kind of need to have some some uh you know, some mojo. And right now, it's hard to have that when mom's folding the laundry. Totally. True.

>> Uh Gabe, what kind of car do you have right now?

Well, right now I don't have anything.

I'm driving my dad's for Door Dash.

>> Oh. >> Whoa. How does he feel about that?

>> He feels fine about it because he does it part time, too, so you know.

>> Okay. >> He doesn't really mind.

>> Okay. Well, I would make that a goal then. I think that's a great You said that, but I would re Yeah, I would reiterate. Yeah. If you And if you saved $1,000 a month, Gabe, I mean, you could

have a $6,000 car in six months. You know what I mean? like it. >> Do you have a high yield savings account, Gabe?

>> Yeah, I do. Um I'm shopping around for another one cuz I'm not a fan of the one I have. >> Perfect. We got just the one for you. Go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They just created a new bundle for our fans. It's got a great high yield savings account. And so you can actually attach your checking and savings and then start to automate that thousand bucks a month. Just go straight from checking into that high yield savings.

And like Rachel said, if you automate that, you'll just pretend the thousand bucks never existed. So, pretend you make a thousand bucks a month and now we have to work live off of that. That helped retrain my brain as well.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Make sure to check that out. And you'll get the Ramsay debit card with that bundle. >> Oh, yeah. >> And it says debt as normal. Be weird.

You're not deeply in debt, Gabe. But at least you kind of get that reminder.

Yeah. Every time, >> especially as you enter adulthood, it's so easy to be tempted to take out the car loan, open the credit card, go into debt, >> take out the personal loan, whatever it is. And so this will help you avoid that temptation. But >> yep, for sure. >> This is very natural. You're 20. You're not weird. You're just 20.

>> Yep. Just put some disciplines and new habits in place. I think you're going to be fine. But George Camel a spender.

>> What can I say? Left to my own devices.

Mama camel cooking at home. >> Unbelievable. >> I'm spending every $16 an hour I make.

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Are you on track with the baby steps?

The baby steps are seven steps uh for you to get control of your money, become debtree, start building wealth, and changing your family tree. Well, if you are curious where you are in that process, you can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes and click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Up

next, we have Jennifer in Dallas, Texas.

Hi, Jennifer.

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Um, well, here is my situation. I am 54

and my husband is 72 and we've been married 23 years. We've had a pretty

successful law firm for about the last 25 years together, but it's it's winding down now and it's kind of to the point where neither of us are taking a salary anymore. And anything that we generate is pretty much going back into the business to keep it afloat and um you know make monthly payroll which is about 20,000 a month generally. and uh we have

no debt uh which is great and we haven't for a long time. We own our home and our law firm free and clear. Um but I find myself kind of in a weird situation being worried about the future um for a couple of reasons and I will say my husband is not and I think it's probably because he's 20 years my senior and I

kind of feel like I'm in a different both than him even though we're in the same marriage. Um, I've never not had a paycheck or a salary in like my entire

career as a as a lawyer or even before.

And it makes me uncomfortable at this, you know, age of my life. And number two

is um the way our estate is set up is um

he was married before me and he's got two adult children. And as it currently stands, 50% of my wealth goes away to

his adult children who are married to pretty wealthy guys. So, I find myself at 54 with a law firm that's winding

down and not really making any money anymore and not um not really knowing

what the future looks like. And he's pretty unbothered and I'm not >> cuz he's like I'm probably going to go first. So, >> right. >> He's like, you have to deal with the fallout, not me. >> Work out. Oh, no.

>> I know. I keep trying to gently remind him of that. And we've got assets of about um 3 million investments in cash.

Our home is worth about 600,000. Like I said, there's no mortgage. We own our law firm. It's probably worth about 750,000 to a million dollars. So, from

the outside looking in, people think we're in great shape, but there's just such a, you know, age disparity. And um

I I just don't know what to do. It stresses me out. And he thinks I'm crazy. >> What do you want to do? If you snapped your fingers today, what happens?

>> I I don't really I don't know. That's a problem for me because this is my whole identity. This is all I've ever known.

I've been a lawyer for 25 years. So, you play it out. You could still be a lawyer and sell the law firm, couldn't you? You sell it for a million bucks. You split it. >> Yeah. I don't I don't know that I want to continue practicing law. It would be nice not to have to work anymore, but like I don't >> You guys have retire. You said 3 million is your total nest egg, including the house. Is that right?

>> No, the house and the um law firm are separate. >> Are separate. Okay. So, what's the 3 million in?

um stocks um uh let's see 401ks like

Roth that but he's kind of controlled all that like I just I got married to him and let him just take over. So um yeah another thing I probably wish I would have done differently. >> Yeah. >> So you guys need to be aligned otherwise you can't really make any moves. It sounds like >> uh he just thinks there's nothing to worry about and I'm like >> Yeah. Because I guess the question is is say let's just pretend you sell the law for firm say he passes away tomorrow.

Okay. We'll just like, >> sorry, not to be horrible, but No, >> I get it. I get it. >> Um, you sell the law firm for a million, you got three million, that's two, that's 4 million, >> divide it in half, 2 million's going to the kids, 2 million's going for to you.

So, the question is, Jennifer, to you, if it was invested and you were able to

get to that 2 million, you were able to live off of that and what it would bring

um per year, could you do that? I mean, it's two, that'd be what, 10%? If you pulled 100 grand out a year, could you live off of that? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we've always lived within our means and I think that's why we've been able to stay out of debt, unlike most of our friends and >> and so so I feel good about it. I mean, we've done everything right. I just feel I mean, the world kind of looks scary to me now in a way that it didn't before.

>> Sure. Okay. Yeah. Well, so I think from a from a very basic numbers perspective,

we know you're going to be okay with if if something happened tomorrow. Now the question is nothing is going to happen probably tomorrow knock on wood but you know there's no diagnosis there's nothing like you know in the in the urgent near future. So the next question is what is the next to George's question what he said earlier you know the next 5 to 10 years what's ideal for you from a money perspective I think you would say run some numbers and just be like okay >> you know I think I'd feel more comfortable if there was three million that I you know if we could build it up to whatever like maybe a numbers perspective what that would make you feel even more peace >> um from a from a career standpoint you're 54 is what you said and >> and I don't know if you want to work for four more years and Maybe you still and you take a salary still and be like, "Yeah, it'd be great to be working for four more years.

I want to get paid for my work." >> I'd love to. >> And then we sell it in five years. I don't know. Like kind of just mapping out some dreaming.

And it would be great if he would be involved in that too, right? You can do it yourself, but it also would be fun to go to a nice dinner and get a bottle of wine and be like, "Hey, let's just dream for the next five to 10 years. What do we want life to look like?" Because he's gonna be 82 >> in 10 years.

>> he'll be old enough to run for president. That'll be really fun.

>> Oh god. I would kill him first.

>> I He's pretty unbothered by all of this.

He's just like, I think you worry too much. You'll be fine. And >> okay, so that to me is Yeah, that's a breakdown in communication from him because he doesn't have to understand your fear, but he at least needs to empathize and hear it out and actually meet you in that, right? And that's more of a relational marriage moment.

half of our money going away to adult kids. And and I know that's between him and me. You know what I mean? It's just like they don't have anything to worry about.

They're in their 30s and early 40s. I'm not. And I helped build this practice to where it is now. They didn't.

>> Do you guys have a will and trust that lays this all out and maybe you can make some adjustments with an estate attorney? >> Yes, we do. And we have made some adjustments to it. Before it was like 30%.

It was like a third, a third, a third. Me and them both girls.

you're the one that built it, helped him build it. >> Get the law firm and the house, but it's the cash and everything else that you know and and then cash is important to me if something happened to him tomorrow. I mean, law firm is only as good as >> someone's gonna pay for it when you sell it. You know, having cash >> 100%. Do you guys have kids together?

Did y'all have kids together? >> No, I don't have kids. >> Okay. >> I'm a stepmom. >> Okay. Yeah, because and again I know the blended family people do it so many different ways. Um >> it's more complicated for sure. >> It is. But the natural progression because y'all don't you don't have kids yourselves is that it goes to you >> and then when you pass it goes to the girls, right? That would be the natural >> I think it should be.

>> Yeah. >> And to your point, they're doing fine.

Like if he passes at 82, they're going to be multi multi-millionaires by then, not even needing this money. >> How's your relationship with the girls?

>> Great. It's wonderful. But I mean this would be a problem. I mean it I mean money I've just seen it. It just tears people apart. But >> no, I've never expressed that I feel any sort of way about it. I've just told him this is really unnecessary when I'm in a

different age bracket and they both are married to very wealthy men. They don't need the money. >> Does he does he get this like what you're saying to all of us with your amount of like passion and absoluteness?

Do you give that to him? Does he see that side of you? >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. Okay. She's like, "Probably more than what I'm doing." >> But is he just hard-headed and stubborn and goes, "Nah, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Everything's fine." >> 1,000%. Yeah.

>> Okay. He probably uses that term at 72.

>> I mean, yeah. I hate to say, Jennifer, that to me that's a breakdown in marriage communication because you have a husband that you are legitimately you're a intelligent woman that's communicating very clearly and you are getting completely um pushed aside. No, what do they call it? Go. Not ghosted. You're getting >> what do they call it? a word for that. >> Yeah. What do the kids say? Where they're like, I'm not we're that didn't that didn't happen. What do they call that? >> Wow. You're showing your age now.

>> Get ready. Uh >> what do the kids say? >> Next next segment I'm going to remember the word. But that's what's happened to Jennifer. And that's a marriage breakdown. >> Start with that first.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with George Camel and we're

taking your calls at8255225.

Up next we have Emma in Minneapolis. Hi

Emma, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you so much. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I am a senior in high school. I'm freshly 18 years old. Um, and I got into

my dream college and I don't know how to tell my parents.

>> Wow. I thought there was going to be something bad that happened, but this is good. So, give us the context of why this is bad news for your parents.

Um, so my dream school for my whole life

has been um University of Northwestern

St. Paul.

>> Whole life. Since you were zero years old, you're like, "This is on my my dream Pinterest board." >> Is that That's a priv is that a private school? >> Yes, it's private and Christian.

>> Yep. How much is that tuition?

>> It's about 38,000 a year.

>> Okay.

Um, okay. So, what have you and your

parents talked about when it comes to college?

>> Um, so I've known for a very long time

that my parents were not going to help us were not going to help me with college. Um, I'm the oldest of six kids and we live on just my dad's income.

>> Okay? And so they don't want me to go there

because they don't want me to go into

student loan debt, which I understand.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> 100%. >> But I haven't >> I think you have probably 99% of people listening to this saying, "Yep, we agree with your parents. We we are." Um, and

so you've not told them because you're

gonna go and you're going to go take on

essentially over four years $160,000.

>> What I haven't told them is I got

>> Yeah. >> What I haven't told them is that I got a partial ride scholarship.

>> Oh, well that's great. Okay. So, how much does that cover?

Um, it covers about $44,000

over all four years.

>> Okay. >> So, you're down to like you'll owe 120 or something. What's the number?

>> It's $11,000 a year for all four years.

So, I'm down to like $105,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you have saved?

>> I actually do not have a savings account. I have been um helping my

parents with the bills and stuff. I work for >> So, they're struggling financially?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Oh, wow. And you're working part-time and that money that you're working for is going to the household?

>> Yes. >> Was this a something you're doing out of kindness or was it like a hey, if you're going to live under a roof, you got to help around cuz times are tough.

>> No, it's kindness.

>> Okay. Okay. And they're and they're and they're they're taking your money.

>> I mean, they're >> Yes and no. Um they So, I contribute I

help pay um for groceries and stuff and

I am aware that some of the money that

I'm paying them, they're putting in a savings account for me. I just don't know how much that is.

>> So, we can get some clarity on that. We got to know if it's a,000 or 10,000.

>> I think if my math is right, it should

be around 8,000.

>> And what if it's zero? What if they spent it all?

>> I don't know. >> Yeah. >> Well, I hate to say it. I mean, I know there's, you know, people are in different circumstances financially, but

asking an 18-year-old to help provide for the family, that's tough for me. Um, so I would I would hope that they just took the money and put it in a savings account. But I would ask them tonight because it is October and if you're a senior in high school, you know, you're starting to get early ad. I mean, it's what you you're doing.

You're getting college um you're you sent out college applications. You're getting the letters in. you're figuring out your next steps and you do that around this time.

next nine months of like what you have to work with and staying within that.

So, um, I want to be really kind because

I really appreciate the dream school. I know that, you know, you've thought about it and all of it, but there is a

sign of maturity, Emma, that when you choose to live within your means, you don't get to do everything you want. And that's a true sign of an adult. And we talked to people on the show that are 45 that don't even grasp that. And so I

would implore you that your friends

Rachel and George can tell you in the real world when you go out to get a job, majority of people don't care what's on your diploma. They really don't. Some some care that you have a four-year degree. I mean, that's a I think a great um thing to have, you know. So, I I think that's great, but people don't care and they don't, you know, that the name of the school and all of that. It is a it is not usually a sign that

you're going to be successful and get a

job that's going to then carry you for

throughout your adulthood and going

$120,000 or $105,000.

Um I think it's a little bit I think it's going to end up being a little bit more than that after room and board and book everything. Um >> what are you studying?

I was planning on double majoring in

pastoral ministry and communications.

>> Emma, >> Emma, we just talked to a worship pastor who's making 53 $58,000 a year

>> and he's been doing a long successful worship leader. It would take you like seven to eight years to pay this off.

>> No. No. Please, please, please no.

>> What do you What do you want to do on the other side of this? Tell me the job.

like if I could just do this job, it would be a dream.

>> Um, summer camp director.

>> Okay. >> For like summer camp.

>> I love the clarity there. Here's the good news. >> I don't think you need a communication degree or even a pastoral studies degree to be a summer camp director. You know what?

You need >> experience at a summer camp where you work your way >> that you can do for free. >> So, this is actually great news. This gives me so much hope for you that we can avoid a crisis because here's what let me play this out and you can go watch the B and future documentary we did on the student loan crisis. I think it'll help under help you understand some of what we're talking about.

My fear for you is that you can never be a summer camp director because there is no summer camp director job that pays enough to cover the payments on the student loans that you end up taking out. >> So you're going to have to go get a job. You're going to have to end up being, you know, an an administrative assistant or something. I mean, which is not bad, but you're not going to get to do what you want to do in life because you're going to have bills to pay for years for for years and years and years and years for a Christian private education that you didn't need.

You don't you don't need it, >> right? >> Um, >> now, would it be a great time going to the school? I think so.

experience? I don't think it is at this point. Now, if you had a full ride and you were like, I just want to do this for fun, I'd go, good for you. Go for it.

But I just I I got into my dream school, Emma, when I was 18 and it was 50 grand a year for 4 years at going to a film school. And I said, I don't think I can stomach 200 grand in student loan debt to maybe be a film director one day. And I think that was the Lord saying, "Please don't do this, young man." >> Yeah. Your future's going to be bright without scripture, Emma.

Every time debt is mentioned, it's in a negative fashion. Now, it's not a sin. If you end up going, you're going to get to heaven with student loans. You're fine, right?

It's not a sin.

mentioned, it is negative. It's a curse.

It's you are a slave to the lender. It is not wise. Go read Proverbs. Go read Proverbs. What God has set before you.

And before you make this mistake, Emma, please listen to your parents. They're giving you good wisdom. And figure out how much is in that account cuz I think you can go to a community college even for a little bit if you need to.

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>> Up next we have I think it's G in Los Angeles. Is it G?

>> Yeah, it's G. Thank you so much for taking my call. Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Well, I did want some advice uh speaking on on behalf of my father. I I wanted to know what it takes to start that conversation of retirement for him. Um I'm 31 years old and uh he's uh I'm 65

67 years old now and he's been a longaul

truck driver for almost 40 years now.

>> It's hard work. >> Um >> no, he's been working very very hard. I think maybe three or four days out of the month we've I've seen him my whole entire life. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. >> Yeah. No, he's Yeah, he's worked very hard for for what he's done. But um as a

long haul truck driver, a lot of it is paycheck to paycheck work. But what he's done very well for himself is live life a little bit frugally and understand what it took for him. And what he did um

was buy some farms in central California

that have all been paid off now and stuff. And I'm just kind of looking for a way to start that conversation with him. >> Wow. Does he want to retire?

>> Yeah, that's one of the bigger caveats about this. He is a workhorse. And as a matter of fact, he just came back from New York today all the way back to central California and he already picked up a load for Friday to take off.

>> Wow. Um, so >> is he the kind of guy is he like a Dave Ramsey? He's just going to work until he's no longer >> retire. >> Absolutely. Yeah, that is his demeanor and that's something I've never got in his way of. But here's the thing about long haul truck drivers. Um, it's kind

of hard on the sons because it is a huge

uh it's it's normal for a son having to get a call somewhere and fly to a different state in the US and have to find out that something happened to their father on the road and they have dangerous >> and that's one of my largest fears. I mean, he's in great health. He's not >> he's not the Yeah. He >> it's a quit while you're ahead situation and you're wanting him to just quit and retire and he has the assets and resources to do so. based on these farms that are creating income.

>> So, that's kind of the confusion on my end, too. I'm just trying to figure out how we can use all the work that he's done. And yes, over the past 40 years, we've um accumulated over 110 acres, me

and him together. Um and uh there are

four different properties. We have different um houses on each property that also give us um rental income. Mhm.

>> Um albeit those houses are um humble

homes, they're in migrant homes and they're surrounded by farms too. So they

give us a little bit of income, but we don't really rely on it. And then um since he's been driving truck, we've been leasing out our farms ever since.

>> Okay. >> Um that gets that gets our property taxes taken care of pretty much at the end of the year and other expenses. But >> okay, so if he quit today doing the truck stuff, how much income would he bring in from all these other sources?

So, um, we get about $8,000 a month on,

um, >> And you're saying we are y'all 50/50 in this? Like you've put in 50%, he's put in 50%, or has he put in more?

>> No, no, it it's all his, but uh, we we do handle everything as kind of like as a family, but he's the boss at the end of the day. So, I should correct myself and say he does. >> Your name isn't on any of these properties? >> No, actually, I put it in Well, he's put it in a trust um, since then that he's the executive of. He bought these farms under his father's name who had passed away. >> Okay. So, it's all under his control.

And are you working outside of all this full-time? >> Correct. Yes. So, I kind of moved out of it and I moved to Southern California and I'm an engineer here.

>> Okay. Right. >> So, you have your own life, your own income. >> So, the 8,000 per month is what he would live on then if he did retire.

>> More or less. Correct. >> Okay. Okay. >> And that's enough to cover his bills. It sounds like being a frugal guy. >> Does he have a home? Yeah. Is he debtree? Is his home debtree? paid off.

>> So all the homes and farms are all debtree. Um so he's bought all of these homes and farms at a very

his primary home. Is it paid off?

>> Everything is paid off.

>> That's amazing. >> All of the Yeah. All of the properties together come out to about 6 million in in in value. >> Incredible. So he could retire tomorrow.

Then your real question is how do I convince him to stop working so hard?

>> Oh yeah, that's part of the Yeah, that's part of the issue. the finances. Should I ask him? >> Yeah. And and should I even ask him?

Because another fear of mine is what happens to a gentleman when he does retire. They slow down.

>> Yeah. >> And >> and I do wonder too, Gee, if there's if you guys can work, and I don't know what

this would look like. could probably would getting getting a third opinion, a financial adviser. But if you have $6 million worth of something, but you're only making eight grand a month, um,

man, there I mean, you could be making 600,000 a month or I'm sorry, a year versus a better return on that. >> Yeah, the return is not great. And and and again that I may I'm speaking just from a numbers perspective, not like a legacy thing that you guys love the land or whatever it may be, but there may be a move that you guys sell two, you know, half of this three million in real estate, three million in the market and he's, you know, living off, I don't know, 300,000 a year is what he could be.

He doesn't need that, I'm sure.

>> Yeah. So, I just wonder if there's a way to bring more money to you guys with this investment. Um, because it is worth so much. But again, you may y'all may not want to do that, but that's one thing to be thinking about >> and maybe to diversify. You know, it's great to have real estate and farm, but you may want to have some in investments, too, just to hedge your bets.

>> And my first uh solution was, hey, like why don't we start farming the farms again and stop leasing them out to tenant farmers that we've been doing for so long. And but he he's had one

different, you know, business adventure a long time in the past and he's never done that again. And ever since then, he worked to pay off these farms.

>> So he got burnt one time and now he's he's got a bad taste. >> Never ever again. And then you did bring up a good a point too. It is a legacy thing for you know the son to sell off the farms or something like that. It's just completely like uh how would I say

>> it's too sentimental.

>> Right. Right. And that's not something Yeah. Especially in our culture, we don't >> What is your culture? Can I ask? What's the background here? >> I'm a a North Indian Punjabi.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. I got you.

>> We al Yeah, we also have farms and property in in um India as well, but those are completely different.

>> Okay, cool. >> Yeah. >> Okay, that makes sense. And I would so I would like to find a way to keep the farms. I mean, use the value and the equity that he's built up some type of way with um since buying these farms and

and may be able to live off of that or

give him some type of good um I guess uh presentation of hey

this is what it looks like and it's super secure and this is how you would live without having to.

>> Has he ever listened to you? And I mean that respectfully. Like has he actually taken any of your advice and went, "Yeah, I'll do that." >> Absolutely not. I actually did with one of the farms myself a 1031C with one

farm and I split it into two which we which now consists of the two properties that are in the trust and >> he didn't speak to me for maybe a year and a half, two years until he started.

So underneath all that hard >> I don't think you have you're in a position to influence you know him retiring. That's just the hard facts is just like you can do all you want to do to have a dad in your life and have him retire and be healthy.

>> He's a grown man. >> And it's such a hard belief. I think it's human nature to think, okay, I'm going to go into this important conversation for this other person because you're wanting the other person to make a different decision than what they're making. And you're and there's a and it's a belief that I've kind of I kind of feel like is a lie of like if I just say it the right way, >> the right, >> if I present it the right way, it's gonna click and it's gonna click.

And I just I don't know maybe I'm cynical but I know for myself I'm like it you just have to get to this point in life you're like I just I cannot control other people like I can't >> and maybe I can try one great conversation but you're not going to change his mind. You're not. And so if for your own peace of mind G if you want to do this and present something to him >> for yourself to have peace to say okay at least I gave it my best shot you can for you. But you got to go into that conversation with zero expectation that he is going to change.

believe that you're somehow going to convince him because it's just they yeah

if you don't want to change if he's not curious or interested it's not going to happen. So >> here's the headline. This is the old quote. A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still and that's just he's 65. This is all he knows. He's not interested in your opinion unfortunately. >> And he's done great so far. I think like you're saying, you see that there's potential that he could be doing more.

Um, but nothing's on fire here. But again, as a son, if you feel like I just have to say this for my own peace of mind, >> you can present him with something. But, um, I would just continue to nurture that relationship and congratulate him on the work that he's done cuz >> you're a good son, man. >> Absolutely.

[Music]

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When it comes to wills, George, especially online wills, there's a lot of questions around this. Uh, one question that we get all the time is, "How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will?" So, usually if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, an online will will be a great option for you. Another question we get is, "What do I need to do to start my online will?" Um, and when you're going to do it, you're going to have to figure out some questions and answer some for yourself, like, "Who's going to get my stuff uh when I pass?

Who's going to take care of my children if they're minors? uh who do you want making decisions for you if you're incapacitated? Also, we get the question, is an online will legally valid?

make sure it's valid in your state. So, a lot of wills are state specific. So, make sure that's the key for you. And then lastly is why would I want an online will versus a traditional one made by a lawyer. So, they're usually more convenient. They're less expensive.

It takes less time to set up. And so again, if you if everything that you have is worth less than a million dollars, an online will is a great place to go. And if you want to know more about this and your specific situation, you can go to ramseysolutions.com/wills

and you can take a quiz online to find out which will is best for you. Up next,

we have Sarah in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi,

Sarah. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. How can we help today?

So, my husband and I were both physicians in surgical specialties. Um, he's an only child. He has immigrant parents, and apparently he had promised them when he was young to support them, uh, once he graduates. And they bought a $1.2 million home a couple months ago, and they've been guilting him into fully paying their mortgage and expecting more money sooner.

>> Wow. So, this was like cart blanch, blank check, richy rich. We're going to do whatever we want and you're going to fund it. Was that the agreement when he was four years old? >> So, right. So, when he was young, he's like really >> 12. He's like, I'll take care of you. Like, good. >> Exactly.

You guys brought me here and you know, I want to give back to you. But as he got older, he realized like, you know, life costs money and he doesn't want to give it all away. But they called after and they're like, well, you promised, you know, you better give us this money. And so he did, you know, and and obviously feels horrible about the way it went down.

he wanted to gift it, not feel forced into it. Um, and I just think like financially this doesn't make sense for us. We have three young kids. We live in a 1500 square ft, you know, 300,000 uh dollar home, so we're living very modestly.

They drive luxury cars. Um, his mother has never held a job in her life. So, she's been a stay-at-home wife for the last 18 years.

feel like we're being blackmailed by his parents.

>> Yeah. >> Emotional They're immigrants. They came in. >> Yes. >> Where are they from originally?

>> They're from Korea. >> Okay. Okay. >> And there just an expectation that, hey, we we raised you. We gave you this great life and now the tables are turning. You take care of us. >> Are they in a place at all, Sarah, to to

live this lifestyle themselves? Have they saved? And, you know, have they been successful? >> So, so his father's been in and out of jobs, but I think they do relatively well. I mean, they've been able to fund, you know, luxury cars until now. We don't have information about their finances. And my thoughts are, if we're going to be funding you, I'd like to know what's going on with your finances.

If I'm expected to take all of those on once you once his dad retires in a year or two. >> Yeah. I mean, for sure. Well, this is

causing a rift in your own marriage because you're clearly getting resentful of your own husband for, you know, letting this all happen and you not having a say in what happens with y'all's money, >> right? >> So, you talk to him about it like, "Hey, we need to put a stop to this. You need to talk to your parents. We need to have boundaries around this." >> Yeah.

The main issue is that he made this decision and gave them the money before talking to me. Um, so he's just been sending it out. Um, >> how much money are we talking here? So, he's sending them $6,000 a month.

and his plan is to eventually give them 12,000.

>> Good. Gracious.

>> A month. >> How much do you guys make a month?

>> Um, like like out of like like what comes into our >> What's your take home pay? >> Yeah. >> Our our take-home pay monthly is like 46. >> Okay. And so he's giving uh you know a 13% parent tax every month. Yes.

>> To support that. >> But we have we both have we both come from like >> Yeah. are well >> 46 a month is what you're making.

>> 46,000 a month. Yeah. He's a um a neurosurgeon. >> So, he makes a decent salary, but we both have incredibly high med school debt. >> Oh. >> How much do you have left in debt?

>> We have all of it. We're hoping for the 10-year repayment, but who knows? So, we each are like about 30 340 each. So,

>> 340 each. Okay.

>> Each. Yes. Because his parents didn't help him. I come from very simple means.

my parents are, you know, don't have a

lot of money at all, which is another kind of sore point. Why are we giving your parents who live a decent life all this money and my parents are living like, you know, paycheck to paycheck and have never requested a penny, you know, and we haven't given them.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and I've supported us for the last

three years as an attending physician while he finished training. and we used all of my money to pay all of our bills, to, you know, fund our lifestyle, to even gift money away. I haven't been able to gift my parents any money that I'd love to, but how now we're handing out, you know, >> well, the the main issue here is you guys are not united on your financial goals, even the values of the family, and he's been doing things behind your back. So, there's first a marriage issue, and then once we deal with that, we can then deal with he can deal with the parents.

But you getting in the middle of talking to the in-laws, I don't think that's gonna work out, >> right? >> And so, he needs to have a hard conversation probably over a long period of time. I don't know if it's gonna happen overnight that he just cuts them off, but I think there needs to be like a, hey, we can't do this. We have our own debts to pay.

We have our own kids we're trying to raise. We don't want to put this on our kids to have to fund our life because we're broke because we gave it all to you guys and we're going to need to do this for a season. Sarah, yeah, you and your husband, you guys really need to sit down and paint >> a picture of what you want your life to look like in the next 5 to 10 years. You know, you guys want to be, I'm sure, get the student loans paid off.

Um, >> you want, you know, that's a goal that you're going to have. You, you, you want a goal to, I don't know, pay off the house, like, I don't know, like you, you're a nuclear family.

creating some goals of what you're shooting for because you're making obviously an incredible income. So, you

don't want it just to like disappear, you know, >> whether it's going to the in-laws or not and you want it to go as far as possible because there is major um things that you can do in your life with this income. And one of those could be I'm just saying with an aster could be >> giving, you know, being generous and giving some away to whoever. Fill in the blank, right? But but you don't even know where the money's going, what's happening because you and your husband are not united.

>> This is what we're doing with money. And in that conversation is again, which I'm sure you have expressed to him >> your disdain and how pissed you are that

all of this is happening. And it makes no sense. It's not logical. It's unfair to take a 23-year-old son's word and hold it over his head for the rest of his life and their life.

Like, none of this is logical. So, let's just say it out loud and we need to get on the same page. And then from there, as a united front, >> then that's when he needs to go and talk to his parents. But I >> I think that's the second issue.

Well, we did have a very intense like serious conversation and his take was, "Well, we'll just give your parents money, too." So, I think I guess it's our goals are not aligned. Like, he's not looking to save big. He's looking to give out all of our money. >> Yeah. And that's Yeah. And that's not okay with you. And you're part of the household. So, your voice is just as important >> um as his. So, how is he just giving them money? Do does he have a checking account that his money goes into?

We put half of our money, half of our paychecks go into our joint account and half of it is in our own personal. Um, so he was just sending it directly from her. >> So that's a breakdown. Do you know what I'm saying?

Everything needs to go into one account. Y'all need to close your separate accounts. You guys need one account that you're functioning out of so that you are a united front. And this is the fracture that happens when couples, you know, start to separate finances because it's quote unquote his money is what he believes.

And he's emotionally believing that because emotionally it is his money. it's in a different account. Your name's not on it. >> And so what that does, it starts to break down the relationship.

And that's what we're seeing right now. And so, um, that probably will make him feel very uncomfortable, that piece of advice, to to be united. But, but I think it's a deeper goal for your marriage. Do you know what I mean?

Like the health of that is really important. And then out of the health of the marriage, we can make these big, >> you know, decisions that are going to create conflict with family, but at least we're doing it united. And so, >> let the money goals be the villain instead of you. and say, "Hey, we have big money goals we're trying to achieve.

We got to pay off all this debt. We're not going to wait 10 years. We're going to do 18 months." Well, now all of a sudden, you don't have the money to give them, do you? >> Yeah.

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[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Hayden in California. I'm getting married soon and my relatives who can't attend the wedding have asked for my Venmo info to send a monetary wedding present. I know that these relatives are in a lot of debt, and I've tried to encourage them to work the baby steps. Is it appropriate to accept a gift from someone who is deep in student loan and other debt, or should I decline the gift?

It feels wrong to allow someone to send money when I know they can't afford to come to the wedding. And it also feels wrong to take money from someone who doesn't have financial peace. What should I do?

>> So, it uh my answer is simple. You take the money because it's none of your business. It's just you don't you don't block a blessing. Someone wants to give.

It's more shaming. It's so shaming to be like I can't accept this gift because you are so broke. >> You are so broke. >> You should be embarrassed you thought just it's it's up to them.

>> I agree. I know. I think you just smile and say thank you and yeah, you take it.

I mean >> I have people in my life who are overly generous who I'm like they need financial help. Why are they being generous? And I learned to just let go.

Yes. >> Cuz it was me drinking a poison. They're joyful. They're having a great time.

let them figure it out and if they need help, I'm here for them. >> Yes. >> That's good. That's good.

>> But that's that's I think a sign of growth and maturity when you learn to not feel like you need to >> intervene. Yes.

like I would be more excited if the reaction was like, "Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Thank you so much. So, just be grateful >> and like George says, know your business. >> And I don't like looking back at my wedding gifts, I don't know the financial situation of everybody who attended and what they spent and could they afford it and did they put it on a credit card to go on the flight to come to the wedding. >> Totally. Totally. >> I don't know. That's only God knows.

>> Only God knows. >> God knows the heart.

>> It's a good question though. Uh, next we have Brianna in Grand Rapids. Hi,

welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks for having me. I am so excited to finally get through.

>> Oh, we're glad you called. How can we help today?

>> Okay, so I am a newly single mom. I'm

planning to buy a salon business that's in a lease uh leased space that currently has six booth renters. I have the cash to buy it outright, but I'm wondering if I should use my savings or finance part of it to keep some cash on hand. >> Okay. Um financially, where are you at?

How much debt do you have?

>> Consumer debt. >> I have about 12,000 in student loans.

>> Okay. >> Um and I am leasing a car which I kind

of got >> put into that but yeah.

>> Okay. >> About it. >> Okay. And how much is in savings?

>> I have about 160 >> 160,000 in savings. And how much is the business going to be worth or how much how much would you buy it for?

Um, we agreed to 50K.

>> 50,000?

>> Yes. >> What exactly do you own for the 50,000?

>> I'm sorry, what was that? >> What is the 50,000 get you?

>> Okay, so worth because it's a booth rent

salon. Um, that is the current revenue

that she's making off of the booth renters and retail.

>> Is that per year? >> Year. >> Okay. Yeah. So, it's costing you one year of of leases to buy the business.

>> Yes, that is what we agreed on.

>> That seems reasonable.

>> Okay. >> Does it seem too good to be true? So, >> is there something you feel like is not there? She's not telling you.

>> No. No. I feel really great about it.

I'm very fortunate and I do work in the business. You know, it's been established for about six years. It's in a great location. Again, I have a great reput uh reputation relationship with the other renters. So, >> and will you be in charge? >> Great. And exactly what I need.

>> And if one renter decides to leave, are you in charge of filling that spot?

>> Yes. Everything would be on my hands if, let's say, Yeah. they all decide to turn around and leave. Yeah.

>> Do you feel um competent to do that?

Like, do you know this world and you have connections? You could probably figure out how to find somebody to lease out that remaining booth if someone were to leave. >> I do. Yeah. Yeah, I feel I feel really good about it overall. I think what really is getting me a little >> um scared is the financial piece of it,

right? I have the money in my savings.

I've just been saving saving. I wanted to buy a house this year, but sadly on my income as a self-employed

person, it's a lot harder than I thought

because I wasn't showing a lot of my income. So, I am renting. Um, obviously

I would love to buy a home one day. I'm hoping to do so with adding income, you know, this Installon business income into my income.

>> But >> yeah, how much would you make >> if you did take this on? How much would you make in what you're doing now plus owning it? How much would you bring in a year?

>> I would say close to 100K.

>> Okay. So you make 50 on your own, you get 50 from the leases, you're up to a six figure salary, and then you can one year in, you'll get your money back essentially if everything goes perfectly, >> right? >> So year two, it's pure. >> Sounds amazing.

And and I honestly thought that you were going to say, I have 160,000 in savings and it's going to cost 160,000. And I was going to give you a different answer, but the fact that it's 50,000, you'll still have 110,000. And then when you pay off your student loans, which I want you to do, you'll have $98,000 in savings.

take part of that 98 and get a I would

get a six-month emergency fund as a single mom and you're starting this new business. I would put six months of expenses aside in a totally separate high yield savings account. Um you can open up one with like Fairwinds Credit Union. They're amazing, but I would just put it in a totally different spot and then whatever you have remaining, I personally would start working to use that for my down payment that maybe I'm going to have in the next two to three years.

>> Okay? And the other thing, the other piece of the puzzle is this leased car.

You may want to look at the buyout amount. And if it's, you know, if it's way less than half your income and you love the car, I would just buy it out outright and not deal with this lease anymore. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> It's going to, you know, stop the bleeding as soon as possible to get out of that lease versus hanging on to it until it's done and then owning nothing at the end of it. >> Yeah. And can I just say well done.

>> Yeah. >> To have 160,000 just saved up on the side. I mean, seriously, incredible.

you're a hard worker. You know what you're doing. I think this it sounds from what you've presented to us like a great opportunity and it makes sense.

You have the money. Uh it's not wiping out your savings or anything. The risk feels low. >> You're not riding on the edge all you still got some cushion there. >> Yeah, it sounds good. So that's so great. All right, real quick. Let's go to Mason in Colorado Springs. Hey Mason,

get right to your question.

>> All right. Hey guys. Um, so Michael question is, so I'm going through a divorce right now. >> I forgot about >> No, it's it's actually we're it's probably the best divorce you could.

We're still like really good friends. We talk all the time. It's just >> it didn't work out. But >> Okay. >> So I got about 15,000 in debt from the

divorce. >> Um, and then I have $10,000 of my own or

like 9,000. So 5,000 of that is in student loans and sadly the other 4,000

is in collections. So, my question is

going to be, what do I start paying off first? Do I start paying off the collections, then the student or pay off my ex? Like, I'm trying to figure out what to start with for the the baby step. >> Yeah.

Did you say so? You said 5,000 in student loans, 4,000 in collections, and how much was for the divorce? 15 >> 15,000. >> Okay.

Okay. >> What's the agreement for the divorce as far as this payout? Is it like payment per month?

Um, no. Just per month. Just per month.

Like I said, it's it's a really I guess if you want to call it clean divorce, it's really good. >> So, is it like a thousand per month for 15 months? What was the agreement?

>> Um, it's it's it's about 9.87 is the

total per month. >> So, and that's just minimums that I have

to pay her uh until it's paid off. But we it we have agreed that if I pay off

my portion first, that's totally fine, too. >> Okay. Mason, what's in the collections?

Is it credit cards?

>> Yeah. Uh, two credit cards.

>> Okay. >> And then like a personal loan.

>> Okay. What I would do is I would call the collections um agency or you know

they're and you can probably talk them down 4,000. I bet you could get pennies on the dollar for hon,000 bucks or 1500 to settle in. >> Settle it. Get it in writing. Get it settled. Um. Yep. And I would just work down the I would work down the uh debt snowball. So I would do the collections.

I would do the student loans and then that $1,000 a month, be paying that, stay current on it, and then when you get to that 15,000, put as much as you can to get out of that divorce debt as fast as possible.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this next hour with

George Camel, my co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour and we're taking your calls at8255225.

Up next we have Jackie in Cincinnati. Hi

Jackie, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm in a situation where uh my husband is threatening to remove me from all the accounts, the credit cards, and threatened to leave me with zero. Um,

he's been pretty verbally, emotionally, and financially abusive, and then last night crossed over into physical abuse, and he was arrested. Um, but I'm wondering, my question is how to protect myself. Uh, his he's he's a finance guy

and he's really interested in laughing his way of knowledge. uh against my ignorance and taking uh full advantage and um putting me in a place of when he

says I I'll need to go prostitute myself in order to have money, which is terribly sick. So >> um I'm just wondering what to do from here. I >> Oh my gosh. Okay.

So, are you safe right now? >> I am safe right now. Um he just walked in uh from jail, so I'm sitting in my car. Um but he is the sole bread winner right now.

We our our kids are now in college. I'm going to be heading back to work, but right now he's a soul bread winner. >> Okay. And you'll be loggering up, I'm assuming.

>> I I this I know it sounds terribly foolish, but I don't I told him I don't want a broken home. I don't want broken hearts. I don't want a separate house, splitting belongings. I don't want to miss any time with my kids.

>> But Jackie, he has opted out of this marriage in every way, shape, and form.

Jackie, you're not Yeah. This is this is not a marriage anymore.

>> Correct. Correct. Agreed.

>> Okay. And your kids are they're they are in college >> and their mom >> is going to make a really brave hard decision, >> but she's going to make a decision that is best for her. I mean, Jackie, this is horrible. >> It's terrible.

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> If you lose love, respect, communication, trust, you don't have a marriage. Safety.

>> Safety, Jackie. >> Provision and protection. I don't even know you. He just walked in from jail into the house that you both still live in.

>> Can you drive away? Like I wouldn't be in the same vicinity as this guy. I would go to a friend's house, a family member. >> Do you have good friends and family around? >> No. No. That's another thing. I he I think he's shooken up because I've never taken action before, but when he shoved me last night into a door, um I I had no

I that was the time the first time that he took it to physical and I I can't

live with myself. Um if I knew if I my kids were ever in that situation, I I had to do it. I could not live with myself. If >> there's one thing we know about abusers, they don't have a change of heart. They're just going to continue it if you let it happen. And so the fact that you're still there really scares me right now. Well, I had I it was my choice to say he

he can come out and work because he's the only one uh with a job. So, he he's

under, you know, he has rules to not

harass and things like that. So, >> well, the rules don't matter if he controls all the purse strings and you get zero dollars.

>> Yeah, Jackie, >> that's what I'm worried about. That's what I'm worried about. >> So, is your name on the accounts?

>> My name is on the accounts. So for the credit card, it's I I'm an authorized user, but he's the full >> Okay. Your checking account where his income comes in, are you on that account? >> Is joint. Correct. >> Perfect. Okay. If I if I were in your

shoes, Jackie, I would take I would be in that car and when you get off the phone with us, I would drive to the bank

and I would create a new checking account and I would take half of the money that is in that joint checking account and I would put it over to your to your own checking account that he has zero access to and I would have it I would have an amount of money and then I would drive

to a hotel and I would get a room for the night and until, you know, I can get with friends and family. I mean, I I I

don't see how it's never going to go back to normal. And so, what you've been living in is sadly, I feel like, is what we hear from a lot of victims of domestic violence is that you become almost used to it. And when you're sitting here telling us two strangers, I mean, George and I, our mouths were just dropped open um because of just the insane situation that you're in. And I don't feel like you I don't feel like you see it. And you deserve better than

this, Jackie. >> Oh, I know that. It's it's it's I just don't want to break my kids hearts.

>> Jackie, staying with a dangerous man is breaking their hearts.

>> And they don't know any of it. So, >> yeah. Jackie, I mean, >> would you want this for your daughter? What would you tell your daughter right now? >> Never. >> Okay. >> That was my question that set them off.

Yeah. >> Okay. So, Jackie, answer your own question. >> I think they're sharper than you think. I think they're catching a lot of what's going on and they're taking a lot of cues. And right now, you have an opportunity to show them the kind of person you are.

>> And we do not promote divorce. That is something that I mean I it has to be to a point where there is there is of no return. And everything you've just said in this call is that for me 100%. 100%.

>> Would you be okay if your daughter was staying in a relationship this abusive?

Would you tell her to? >> Well, that's why we're saying yes. And so, yes. So, you wouldn't do that. You wouldn't want this for your daughter. I don't want you to I don't want you to want this for yourself.

>> Correct. >> But you're right. The financials, this is where we always say the we always are about combining finances, but the red flag goes up with a couple of different things. If there's abuse, which check that off for your list, um, you know, if there's if there's addiction that's not being addressed, if there's things that you need to protect yourself, you need a separate account. >> Financial infidelity. You can't control his spending. What if he racks up a bunch of debt and your name is tied to that credit card?

>> Well, this is my second question is he opened a separate bank account last year because his mother sends him thousands of dollars that he can gamble and buy, you know, alcohol, drugs, and all that and he plays with that money and I can't access that. He could easily move the money. That's what I'm saying, Jackie. >> You need to create your own financial >> get off the phone. Get off the phone with us and you need to drive to the bank. remove your name from any account that you're on that's tied to him.

Freeze all of your credit with all three credit bureaus. You can call them up and have them freeze it. Go online and do it. And then create your own checking and savings accounts that you have full control over.

>> Okay? >> And I would honestly I would pack up my stuff and I would not be back in that house and I would be contacting an attorney for next steps.

>> That's another thing I I don't even know where to begin. and he thinks it's the funniest thing that he's just gonna he's just going to ruin me. And he thinks it's funny because he's in finance and I >> He thinks it's funny because he's an absolute >> and he knows that you're you're going to be a doormat and he knows you're going to come back and you're going to say, "Well, I don't want a broken home." He knows that he's holding all the cards and so you need to show him that you mean business like you did yesterday when he went to jail for the night, >> right?

>> And I think when he realizes, oh, she's not coming back. Oh, she created her own accounts. Oh, she took half the money. This is more serious than I thought.

>> Well, yeah. Our kids are adults, though.

Well, I guess it would be alimony. I don't know. >> Yeah. >> No idea. Yeah, >> there's laws that protect you here.

>> Yes, absolutely. >> And you're not a bad person for taking advantage of >> side and especially because there's a police report that's been filed. Um, I mean there you have a lot of weight right now for you to use in your favor, Jackie. And we we implore you to do

that. I mean, for for your own safety, Jackie, please. Um, >> I'd have a restraining order against this guy, let alone letting him walk back into my house after >> it's a manipulator, an abuser. It's every it's every red flag you could imagine, Jackie. And so, just hear that from two strangers that this is it's so clear to us. And my fear is that it's not clear to you. If you can, if wherever you are, Jackie, >> join a local church. Get a community around you who's willing to support you.

You need people in your corner right now. >> I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Call us back

um if you need anything.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's actually happening in the housing market. And so we are here to help you with the latest trend so that you can easily understand what is happening. So medium home prices have dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000

and a typical season shift as we fall as

we head into fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. So if you are in the buying market, you're in the you're in the green light. So, mortgage rates have also dropped slightly to 5.5%

in September, giving some buyers some breathing room. And since rates are unpredictable, the best time is when you are financially ready to buy a home, not just when rates drop. So, obviously, it's in your favor when that happens.

But if you are ready to buy a home, go ahead and get into the market. To learn more about the housing market tren housing market trends and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home and you need some confidence, go to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. All right, let's go to Brian

in Syracuse, New York. Hi Brian, welcome

to the show.

>> Hey, good afternoon. Um, so hey, exactly

a month ago, I turned 40, decided it was time to stop making excuses and create a will. So I hopped on Mama Bear legal forms, knocked it out, good to go.

>> Great. >> Um, as I'm reviewing it, I feel like there are some gaps in I guess what I would want my plan to be. So my question

is, is there some sort of supplemental document or something where I can really spell it out like a toz? Um, and then

how do I have an age appropriate conversation with my kids there? I have a teen and a pre-teen. I can't imagine anything's going to happen anytime soon, but how do I begin to have those conversations so when it does happen, you know, there there's no surprises and it's just pretty straightforward and we're good. >> Yeah.

No, those are some great questions. as well.

>> Um, and pre-teen and teen, you know, they're I feel like they're always smarter than we give them credit for what they can and what they can handle, too. Um, so yeah, I do think it could be a good discussion. I mean, I feel like my parents did that. Um, I don't remember like a formal sitdown, but it sounds morbid, but I think we always knew who we were going to go to if something happened to mom and dad.

Like I think that was always kind of a known thing. And weirdly, I feel like it kind of gives you a little bit of security as a kid that I don't know because it's usually obviously people that you love. It was our aunt and uncle um for us.

again you're sharing it. you're not trying to scare them and just to say um you know mom and dad have been doing some planning and we want to bring you guys in just so that you're aware and if you have any more questions like we are here to answer and that's one thing I've learned with kids is you can give them you know some information and if they're ready for more they'll ask more questions and you can be there to be truthful and answer them but um yeah

that that's probably what I would do is just sit them down and just say hey we just want you guys to know that you know we've been doing some planning And as parents, we love you guys and love our

family and we want to protect as much as

we can. Um, if anything bad ever happens, and nothing probably bad is going to happen, but if it did, we did just want to let you guys know, you know, maybe who they're going, you know, who they would go to or what not. I don't know. That may sound kind of too blunt, but >> I mean, they do all kinds of drills in schools to prepare in case something should happen.

And so I think it's a good analogy to go, listen, we do the same for our life, for what would happen if something were to happen to us. Here's what would go on.

>> It's just, you know, I'm I'm I'm thinking I won't need this for another 50 years anyway, you know, I certainly hope, but it's just so it's it's just me. Um, and my brother is the executive.

Um, and you know, it's it's honestly it's a big thing like my house. um you

know, it would go to them, but they're 12 and 14. What in the world are they going to do with a house? >> Oh, sure. Well, it would be held by the executive until it's time. And once they're adults, then they would have access to those assets. And so, you know, there are situations as you get older and as you build more wealth, you can then move into a trust where you can get a little more fancy and complicated.

But a will can do a whole lot. I mean, you can add a whole lot of clauses in there. Just a detail. You add as much detail as you want.

>> Yeah. So maybe I need to go back through um because I can edit for still quite a while. Yeah. >> And uh add some more detail.

Yeah. That that's really the biggest thing. I don't think my net worth is high enough where a trust makes sense right now, >> but at the same time, I don't know that I would want to hand them the keys, >> you know, when they're 14 and 16. I mean, hopefully they're in their 16 >> and legally.

They wouldn't just like get a house. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so that would be something to think through, you know, if Yeah.

whether it is a home or any cash available >> when you would want that to be available to them, right? At what age? Um, would you want it specified for college? I mean, if you have college funds, yeah, like what all of that as as detailed as possible, I think is a gift to those if the will ever has to be activated that you're able to >> to looking for.

Yeah. I I think maybe I need to go back through and I could add some more detail. Yeah.

should the discussion be with the executive who'd be my brother. I trust him. He's great. The idea is I want it all in a document. So if something were to happen, there's just no questions.

It's just there in ink and then he can just execute on it. You know, it's it's >> not that I expect anything to be dramatic, but just so it's nice and clean, easy. >> Yes. Well, from a legal perspective, you can put as much in the will as possible.

And then and then this would not be necessarily as legal, but for him specifically, just as a level of communication, I mean, you could create a word document. Do you know what I'm saying? And be like, "Here, the will is going to take care of the legal side, but here are like my wishes, like more

specifically, directionally, if you don't want to put all that detail into the will, but the will can should be able to cover from a legal perspective exactly where you want things to go and custody of the kids and all of that." Um, but yeah, but for the for your brother, um, >> he'll manage the assets until they're adults. And so that's just part of it, and you can specify that in there.

>> Great. Cool. So, looks like I should go back and just do some more detail work, have that conversation with them, and y should be good. >> Yeah, for sure. And I think it's always a good idea to loop the person in who is

going to be helping. >> Yeah. No surprises. We're like, I put their name in there, but I didn't want to tell them. >> Yeah. Uncle Cody is now getting two kids and he's like, "Wait, what?" >> You want to make sure they actually are willing and able and agree to it. That's That's part of it >> for sure. >> But you're doing the right thing, Brian. I'm really proud of you, man. >> All right, let's go to Jada in Atlanta.

Hi. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, Rachel. Hi, George.

>> Hello. How can we help today?

Um, so I was wondering if I should pause

the baby steps and save up some money

for like a new car and some other things. Um, just some background, I'm

recently divorced and I have a 2-year-old, so I don't have a lot of time to do >> like side hustles. I do try to do like Uber Eats and Door Dash, but there's not so much I can do. >> How much do you make, Jada, from your job? Um, I make about 55K a year.

>> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

>> I have about 47,000 in debt.

>> Okay. What are the What are those debts?

>> Um, about 3,000 is for medical bills.

Um, I have about 3,500 on a credit card.

I have $1,000 left on my transmission that I have to pay off cuz my car broke down a couple months ago. Mhm.

>> And then the rest is student loans.

About 35,000. >> 35,000. Okay, perfect.

>> Um, when you're doing your budget monthtomonth, do you have any margin at all? Like a couple hundred bucks even?

>> Um, maybe like two >> $200. It kind of varies.

>> And any savings?

>> No. >> No savings. Okay. Um, and how's your car

doing right now?

>> It's okay. Um, it's definitely not in

the best condition and it makes me want to get something else because I end up having to do like an oil change every two to two and a half months >> because it burns so much oil.

>> Um, >> so could you make this work for another 6 months or so and save up and get a different car? Cuz it I'd be okay with you pausing the steps to get you reliable transportation from A to B.

>> I think I could. I'm hoping I can honestly. I'm not sure, but I think so.

>> Yeah. Well, if it's pausing for a short period of time to see what if you can sell your car and save up maybe another extra thousand or so, put it with it.

That's great. But um but as long I mean, if you can put that money towards at least $1,000 savings, emergency um

savings I think is the number one goal before you go and try to replace the car. So, I try to get that $1,000 ASAP.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz and we've got a special guest on the debtree stage. It's Carrie. How you doing Carrie?

>> Doing good. >> So, a little birdie told me that you are work for U-Haul and they are smart dollar users. So, if you don't know, Smart Dollar is our financial wellness product that we created for organizations to for HR to have this as a benefit to their employees to help them get financial peace and take control of their money. And you have gone through that.

>> Yeah. >> Fantastic. Well, we're grateful you've joined us today. >> Yes.

>> Phoenix, Arizona. >> Okay. So, great. And how much debt have you paid off? >> 33,000. >> Amazing. What did that consist of?

>> That was 25,000 in a heliloc and about

8,000 in credit cards.

>> Oh, incredible. Well, I know some of your co-workers are probably listening to this call, so we're not going to ask your income just to like let that happen. >> Don't make it weird in the break room. >> No, but um >> how long did it take? >> Yeah. >> Um it took me 18 months.

>> Oh, wow. Fast. Year and a half. done.

>> Knocked it out. >> Good for you, Carrie. That's awesome.

>> So, what got you started on this journey? >> So, I had credit cards and that's what I

used to pay for anything that I couldn't, you know, pay with my paychecks. So, I was paycheck to paycheck and living beyond my means. And

it was credit card after credit card.

And, you know, that one would get maxed out, I'd get another one. And there was a day where I specifically remember I was in my home gym and I had my third credit card. was maxed out.

>> I thought, "Oh, I'm just going to call them up, you know, call them and I'll get that increased." >> And they said, "I'm sorry, your debt to income ratio, you're you don't qualify for anymore." >> Wow. >> And that was just the moment like something has to be done.

>> Yeah. When even the lenders were like, "Yeah, we're not going to let you borrow any more money. You know, you're deep in it." >> Yeah. >> Wow. And that's when you had this this moment of I got to do something different. And then how'd you get connected to us? Was it through Smart Dollar originally or have you heard about us before then? >> Yeah. My son was using the app and doing the program on his own and I thought, I

think I've heard about that. I think I've seen something about that at work.

So, I'm going to check and see. And I looked more into it and they're like, yeah, it's completely free. We give you this. You get the Every Dollar app, which has been totally a lifesaver to

see. I'm a numbers person, so I want to see where am I where I'm spending too much and where I could maybe save some.

And >> that's awesome. What's your role at U-Haul? What do you do over there? I am in sales. >> Okay. >> So I work from home. Yeah. I'm I'm in home sales. >> Nice. Been there almost 15 years. So

>> what? >> So great. Okay. So when you start So when you started it 18 months ago,

>> was it hard to kind of get on board?

Like was it hard to change the way you used to handle money and now you're doing something totally new or were you at a point of like desperation where you're thinking I I will do anything. I will do anything to get out of this.

Well, it was a little of both because it was a necessity. I mean, if I was going to not lose my house and not lose my my stuff, I had to make the changes, you know. It was a necessity. But it was hard. Of course, it was hard. You know, I was used to living a certain way. And if I wanted to go to dinner, I just put on credit card and I worry about that later, you know. And if I wanted to, you know, go out and get something, it

wasn't a second thought. So, >> yeah, that's for future carri.

It came quicker than I thought. Yes.

>> Yes. Yes. Okay. So, during the time Okay, so the hardest part was probably saying no to yourself of what you're used to. >> Changing the habits. >> Yes. Uh, were there people cheering you on during the process?

>> My parents, for sure.

>> Yes. So great. Is this them right there?

So, okay. So, if you're watching out on YouTube, they're here in the lobby. So, so great. So wonderful.

>> Wow. What was one of the hardest things that you had to make a tweak to or cut out completely from the budget that you sort of used as fuel of like one day I'm going to have this back in my life, but right now it's got to go in the name of freedom. >> I think it was mostly eating out. We used to do that a lot.

That was kind of our thing like, you know, that was our release. You know, you've had a stressful week or something, you're going to go out and I don't want to cook. I want to, you know, take it easy and and then, you know, I would just do that and just be like, not think about it. It's just, you know, what we would do for fun.

And that was kind of our fun.

>> Yeah. Did you see a big change? Cuz we always tell people to cut out to eat because of how much it eats into your income. Did you see that difference grocery shopping and cooking versus eating out?

>> Oh, for sure. So much different because I don't didn't do a budget before. It was like if I had the money, I would do it and if not, I'd put it on credit. And yeah, actually looking at how much money I was spending on eating out was it was sickening.

It was just >> I think everyone feels that way.

>> Most people just never look. They just would rather not want to know.

>> Once you do the math, you can't unsee it. And then you go grocery shopping and cook at home and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I saved $500 this month just by being intentional.

>> Way to go." >> Yes. Were there people um making fun of you at all? Like some of your friends or anything? Or did was everyone happy hour?

Come on. or was everyone cheering you on like this car and a lot of people didn't know that I was doing that because it was very private with my money. I a lot of people didn't know I was in debt to begin with, you know, not even my family knew. >> Yes.

>> So, it wasn't something, you know, you go like >> and I don't think a lot of people tell you how much credit card debt they have, you know. >> Y >> and what was the helock about? At what point did you take that on and what did you use it for? >> Um, that was the worst decision I've probably ever made.

They make it seem like, oh, you're going to save this money.

and putting that together." >> Oh, you rolled your debts into a heliloc. >> Yeah, that was what we did. >> Like a consolidation. >> We did a little bit of remodeling for our house. We did redid the bathroom, but yeah, we paid off the car. We um put

the credit card debt on there. >> You just moved the debt around and you felt better about your life. >> Yeah, because I was saving money, you know. I was saving money by convinced you. Yeah. They they had a great sales pitch and you're in sales and you you

this is it. Okay. You keep saying we is that your >> I have a fiance as well. >> Fiance. Okay. So great. Okay. How was that relationship as you as you were working your way out of debt? Was that uh was he on board? Was he >> cheering you on? No, >> he was on board for me, but yeah, I mean our finances are separate, so he's he's on his own financial journey now.

>> Sure. >> Well, I'm still going to eat out. You do what you want. >> Yeah. I was going to say that's impressive. Yeah. To be Yeah. Yeah. To be in a relationship like that and you were like, "Hey, I'm doing I'm making these changes >> with or without him doing it." Yeah.

>> Yeah. Well, maybe he'll see the the peace and the control that you have, you

know, and Yeah. Maybe it'll rub off on him. >> It has. He has his his thousand emergency fund now. He's not using credit cards. So, he's very proud of me.

And good. >> And it has rubbed off a little.

>> Yes. That's great. That's great. I love it. >> We're so proud of you. And I know a lot of your co-workers, family are watching.

Your son, I'm sure, is like, "Way to go, mom. Like that's pretty wild that your son got you inspired to do this. >> He did and he just paid off his debt. He is debtree. He couldn't be here with me today because he's saving up for his wedding. But look, I love it.

>> So yeah, he's debtree now, too. Three generations of debtree. >> Look at you. >> That's literally changing your family tree.

>> So powerful. >> We are so proud of you. Honored you came to visit us and so thankful to U-Haul for the partnership they've had with Smart Dollar and helping their own employees become debtree. Like why would you not want that for your own team?

And so I love to see companies get a hold of this and offer it to their team. All right, you ready for this? >> I'm ready. >> It's Carrie from Phoenix.

33,000 paid off in 18 months. Count it down.

hear a debtree scream.

>> Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

>> Just like that. >> I love it. Imagine yourself now and then fast forward 18 months from now. That's pretty wild to think about. You could be completely debtree just by getting a little bit focused, a little bit intentional, making a few sacrifices.

>> I mean, yeah. And you heard her. She was like, gosh, all these expenses when I actually started looking and seeing where I was spending >> that actually can create the margin to then just completely snowball into the debt to be able to pay it off that much faster. >> Yeah.

Like it it really isn't rocket science. It's just paying attention instead of just being in denial, being ignorant, just doing what you want like a child. Instead, having a little bit of delayed gratification, a little bit of intentionality, and going, "What did I actually spend? What could I be spending?

And how can I use that newfound margin?" And that's what's so great about the allnew Every Dollar is it helps do that for you now with all the personalized recommendations. And you heard her, you know, we didn't pay her to talk about Every Dollar, but she was like, "That was the game changer." >> Yeah. Well, I can look at it. And that was another thing I thought of.

We get so many calls from people in their 20s and 30s and like, "Hey, I want to I want my parents to do this stuff, but they won't listen to me." And we always say, "Well, if you just do it, they're watching and they're they're hearing you and your conversations around money." And you could see that's exactly what happened, right? He was living his life financially, being wise and getting control. And when his mom hit this wall financially in her own life, she thought, "Oh my gosh, my son is doing something. I wonder what that is." So, you never know what that example uh that you're taking on because you could have Yeah.

a family member like Carrie and then she gets it and then she's debtree 18 months later.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 24:16.

that the righteous fall seven times, they rise again, but the wicked stumble when they when calamity strikes. Serena

Williams says, "I really think a champion is defined not by their wins, but how they recover when they fall." >> Beautiful. Y >> also easy to say when you win a lot.

>> You know what I mean? >> It's not all about winning, guys.

>> But I just win everything I do. Y >> Serena Williams. Oh, so great. All right, let's go to Nate and in Lancing,

Michigan. Hi, Nate. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Yeah, thanks a lot for taking the call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Well, my wife and I are looking for a little of advice here. Uh she is on the

leadership team for a hospitality based company out of Florida that is selling to a larger company uh in New York.

>> Okay. Uh, and the owners the owners of her company met with her and said that they would like to recognize her years of service and loyalty by giving her a $600,000 bonus from the proceed of the sale. >> Whoa. Okay. Well, that's >> Yeah. So, >> wonderful.

>> She figured she might get something from this, but this large of an amount was a pleasant shock to both of us. So, the only caveat here is that she is likely

um after the new company gets on its feet from the merger, the new company may let her go within a year.

>> Sure. >> But, uh we're just looking for advice on what we should do with this 600,000.

>> Oh my gosh, how great.

>> What does she make? >> Yeah.

>> Her annual income is 190,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> Fantastic. >> How old are you guys?

>> She's 39. I'm 40.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. And how much do you make a year?

>> 140,000. >> 140. Okay. >> Fantastic. Power. This is a power couple by definition. >> I know. Y'all are doing Y'all are doing so great. Okay. Um financially, where

are you guys at? Do you guys have any consumer debt?

>> No. Uh we only have uh what's left on

our mortgage and we have like a stupid low interest rate. So that's the only thing. We have 177,000 on the mortgage and we're debtree otherwise.

>> Amazing.

Okay. Well, um usually when we talk

about, you know, this type of money that

you fall into, uh well, I shouldn't say she worked very hard, you know, and that's incredible that they're recognizing her with that. But, um there's really the three big buckets to

kind of dip into and that's giving, being generous, saving, and enjoying

some of it. And then I would add I would throw the mortgage piece in there um as well. So yeah, if I woke up in your

shoes, I would pay off the mortgage. I would be completely debtree and you guys

would have about 400,000 left. I mean

four Yeah. 420 430. And out of that, I

would I would give some. I would find something that you guys um you don't have to be urgent about it, but find something that as as a couple, as a family, that you guys are really passionate about um that you love. And

I'd set some money aside for some giving. And then beyond that, I mean,

yeah, you could, you know, put this in some, you know, an index fund or mutual funds from the investing side. And then I would enjoy some of it. Maybe there's like a big trip you guys have been wanting to do. Um, if you guys need to replace any cars or anything like that.

I mean, I want you to to spend and and enjoy part of this. >> You've earned it to upgrade your life a little bit. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I I appreciate that. Um, you know, we're we're doing pretty all well otherwise. We we do have 90,000 in a

savings account and I'm kind of on the fence on whether that's too much. Um, you know, we do plan to retire a little bit early though. So, that's that's another thing here. Um, >> I think this becomes your your brokerage non-retirement brokerage account bridge fund that'll get you to, you know, 59 and a half when you can access those retirement accounts without penalty. So, I love the idea of you're going to need to set aside some of it for taxes, right?

>> Exactly. your tax bill is going to increase severely this year. Uh which is fine, but set it figure out how much that's going to be and set that aside in a separate savings account to be ready for that. I would pay off the mortgage personally regardless of the interest rate just cuz it's going to free you guys up to have total freedom, total margin, more cash flow coming in that you can use for the rest of your life.

And maybe, you know, you upgrade the house down the road, maybe you upgrade the cars. And like Rachel said, we're going to give some, spend some, and then whatever's left over, I would just park in that brokerage account and let that be the start of your bridge fund >> for retirement is what you're saying to retire early. >> So if you guys want to retire at 50 or 55, you've got a nice cushion to get you there.

>> Even if even if that interest rate is just below three, that's what it is. we

talked about this last night and she's like, "Well, I'm I'm interested to hear what they have to say on the show, but what if uh we didn't pay the mortgage off and invested it and just hope to beat that 3%." Does that make sense?

>> Of course. Yeah. It's the number one argument we get with telling people to pay off their house. >> And you're in the unique position where you could literally write a check and pay off the mortgage today, whereas most people are just hypotheticals.

They don't actually have the money. But when you look at just how much you're paying in interest, it's just it's still even at 3% on a loan that size, you're just like, why am I giving the bank a,000 bucks this month? This is silly. And so to me, you're going to be multi multi multi-millionaires, whether it's 7.5 million or 7.2 million, I'd be happy to have that argument down the road.

>> Yeah.

and that you know you try to find the spread here or there. You're not going to find genuine just peace of mind

knowing that you don't owe anyone anything. No bank is over your head at all. Like you are completely free. So

what I would encourage you to do is I would I would pay it off and then if you

hate it, if you hate being debtree and

you really want a mortgage, you could, you know, borrow on the house and get a mortgage again. It'll be like 6% though.

So, that's really gonna put a damper in your >> I don't care. But it's the it's the it's the idea that you would never go back into debt once it was paid off.

>> Well, and you told us she there's a possibility she gets laid off in the future. And so, not having a mortgage just makes that a yawn. Okay, guess she gets to look at the next thing she's doing instead of man, we really got to lower our lifestyle because this mortgage payment was three grand. And obviously, you guys are doing so well that I don't think that would be an issue, but it's just going to only increase your piece.

and you're talking to two people who don't have a mortgage payment and this is something that we would do. I would do it all over again regardless of if it's 1% or 7%.

>> Yeah, that that was my sentiment too in in our discussions. Obviously, it's a it's a team decision here, but uh she's very supportive of me coming on the show and getting some outside advice. So, thank you very much. >> Absolutely. >> Absolutely, Nate. I know. And well done.

>> She's earned it. I think a shopping This is my dream is just give her a shopping spree. >> You know, whatever her favorite stores are, go, you know what?

>> 10 grand in a day. You have to spend it.

Go enjoy. >> Go. >> What woman is like, no, I don't want to do that. That sounds terrible. >> It sounds awful. >> Make it a weekend. Spa day, one day, a shopping day, another day, and one day just for recovery because that was a lot. It was stressful. >> There was a lot of effort that went into that. Yeah, that is one uh argu I mean,

I don't want to say argument. He was not being argumentative about it. But one take that um from a math standpoint we

hear a lot if you did have a lower interest rate the two 3% and you could be making you know easily 15% in the market even more so for >> even high yield savings I can make four in the high yield savings and the mortgage is three what's what's the point >> and yep and so that is something that we hear we hear often from the math nerds and again from a mathematical standpoint we understand it we're not stupid but there is something about personal finance where we always say it is 80% behavior. It's 20% head knowledge.

What you do, the person you are handling the money is the bulk of your money problems and your money solutions.

are completely free. Scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender. And when you do not owe anyone anything,

there is a level of rest and peace and

sleep at night that you just don't always get knowing I have to pay this.

There's a level of risk. And again, their numbers are big. So like, would they take pay it? Probably yes.

But man, there there's just something to be said that you just can't take it away. You can't take it away. So, >> well, there's a there's something to be said for wanting to solve for the spread that you could make versus just solving for peace. And they're just two very different goals.

And so it's not an apples to apples argument of on paper I could make this. >> Listen, you're playing >> checkers over here.

It's just a different game. And that's what you get to own that. Yep. And our goal with this show is solving for peace. Getting control of your money. So money is not an issue in your life that you get to go through it through life.

And money is a tool to be used, but it's not a point of stress for you. All right, George. Great show. Thanks as always being a great co-host. Everyone in the booth, thank you guys. And for you, America, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 155. Stop Letting Yesterday's Mistakes Control Today's Decisions | March 3, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `t5ng8FWcpQc` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5ng8FWcpQc) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:42:46 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washaw number one best-selling author and Ramsay personality is my co-host today.

Open phones here at8255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Chris is going to start us off in Chicago. Hey Chris, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. >> Good. What's up?

So about 12 years ago um I used gambling

as a coping mechanism and what was a

social thing became an addiction.

After about 10 years I realized that or after 2 years I realized the trouble I was in. Um and I tried to fix it on my

own. Uh they didn't go particularly

well. My wife discovered my gambling about eight years ago. So, two years after that and

I I did do the work. It was a traumatic

and absolutely brutal situation for her to be in because all the, as you know,

my confession took the load off of me, but it just put it squarely on her shoulders. Now, >> I did the work. I I was already in the

process of wanting to do undo what I had

done. I just wasn't at the place where I trusted the Lord to help me save my family. Um,

and so I didn't confess it to her. When

it finally came out, I did the work. I spent a year and a half. I paid off all the debt. I put a significant sum in a

savings account that she only had control over.

um therapy every week, GA um and it got

to a point where even my therapist said, you know, I think you're in a good place with the gambling. I don't think you need my therapy for that, but I'm

willing to help you with my marriage.

And so what has happened is

I've regained the trust in the financial aspect of things.

And now, you know, I have kind of control of my money. We have two separate accounts.

But what has happened is the damage that

was done to the relationship has just put up such a significant wall that the

things I now want to do with giving and

um just being a steward with the grace that

God has given me in my finances.

are everything on that aspect is completely separate. If I try to bring her into some of that of what I am doing or how I'm in investing or saving or giving her

response will be do what you want with your money. >> Mhm. >> And so for the sake of peace in our household that that is not something I'm going to demand of her. So, it's been about seven years. >> You've been dry seven years being clean.

>> You've been sober seven years.

>> Wow. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Are y'all seeing a marriage counselor?

>> She We tried it. Um, we've tried it a

couple times and she absolutely doesn't want to have anything to do with it.

So I understand that until the Lord

softens her heart towards me that that's

not something I can I can't change her.

So what I'm trying to figure out is

without imposing on her and

the resistance to any type of

reconciliation in our marriage right now.

How can I I'm not sure how to proceed with some of the things that you know the only debt we have is our house. >> Mhm. Well, it's hard to proceed with a life when you don't have a a marriage even where you have a roommate.

>> Oh, absolutely. >> And that's that it's hard to it's hard to visualize a future uh a unified

future when there's not a unified current. And so, you know, and and

>> so I mean, you're you're the language that you're using around this is all correct. >> If if what you're really acting out follows the conversation that we've been having with you for the last four minutes, uh it's all very clear. Um,

>> are there kids?

>> Two. >> How old are they? >> Two young boys. Uh, I'll say pre-teen.

Could not nail me down quite as >> And you can answer as honestly as you can. Is she only staying with you because of them?

>> No. The reason I think she's staying with me is then right now I am the bad

guy. But if she chose to divorce me,

there would be some some accountability from her family and things like that that she would have to deal with.

>> So my point is she's not staying with you out of love for you.

>> She's staying with you for some ulterior

>> um reason. Okay, that's the point.

>> Yeah, you you obviously you're correct.

You can't make someone change what and obviously you're correct. She has a reason to be pissed, but at some point it becomes more about her being pissed than it does the actual thing that happened. Um, right. So, like we went bankrupt. I was 28 years old. We had little babies and we lost everything because 100% of the real estate decisions were being made by me. I wasn't hiding anything. It

wasn't an addiction. But my wife uh lost

confidence in my judgment with good reason. Hello. I was stupid. Okay. So,

um, she lost J, you know, and so, how do you regain that trust? Well, steadiness,

consistency, and working at, okay, you

know, anytime I walk near anything that makes her feel like the phrase she used, it feels like you're scheming and scamming again. And I wasn't scheming or scamming, but um, it makes her feel like I'm my risk meter is gone again. And she has a large risk meter. So we have to really work together to make decisions in order for her in order for our decisions to stay in her comfort zone.

Especially in the early days today completely different. It's 30 years ago.

Um but 7 years there should be some

progress on coming back to the table

unless you've given a reason for there not to be. And what you're saying is it hasn't been.

>> You've steadily and consistently moved away from all the problems. And so to invite her into all decisions and then and she refuses and and I want you to look at this with me so you have a comfort so you you you know you don't ever think I'm going back to where I was before. I understand the deception. I understand the actual loss of the money.

Um and you know but at some point we've got to grow back together on this otherwise we've got real issues here.

And so I I don't know. That's something for a therapist to guide you in how much pressure you put on her to do that. But the bottom line is uh Chris, this is not good for her, >> right? >> She's got a bucket of acid in her guts.

>> And it's just boiling all the time.

And that's what lack of forgiveness does. Now, she should not trust you except to the extent you are trustworthy.

>> Worthy. >> Yeah. But if you're sharing everything and she's got insight into all of it and we make Sher and I make the decisions together ever since that event. Dave doesn't make any decisions to come home and say, "Look what I did." We make the decisions together.

And if you're doing all of that and she's unwilling to join that, then that's the healing on her part that hasn't taken place. And I don't know how to force someone to do that or force a discussion about it. I would turn that over to your therapist, sir. I'm so sorry you guys have been through this.

gambling thing, folks, is out of control out there.

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Brandon is in Mississippi. Hi, Brandon.

How are you?

>> Doing well. >> Good. What's up?

>> Uh, I had a question um about helping a

parents out. So, um,

a W or 1099 came in late uh due to uh

the job that she was working and she has

the money but not able to pay all of it

right now. And if they were going to get

a loan, it would be for the 25 taxes instead of

the 24 taxes which um she was trying to

take care of right now. And the question was um I know my parents they won't try

to pay me back or they will try to pay me back but I won't you know request them to pay me back but I was thinking about getting a loan to try to assist them for the 24 taxes. How much is due

for the 24 taxes?

>> Uh 27 >> 27 what,000?

>> 27,000 night. Okay.

>> Yes. And uh >> how much for 25?

>> Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure about the 25, but she was trying to make sure and take care of the 27 now because that is the most important thing which is for 24.

>> What's what else about their financial history? Do how much are they earning every every month or every year? Do you know? >> Um, yeah. So, I would say mother

probably brings around 130.

>> Uh-huh.

>> Uh, father probably right at 90.

>> So, there's no reason they shouldn't be paying their taxes.

>> Why is she not she not not setting aside money for 1099 income?

So yes, she was paying them quarterly.

Um, >> but not enough. >> What happened? >> Yes. Not enough. So what happened? A late a late 1099 came in.

>> Mhm. >> And uh so they had >> No, that's not what happened. >> That would have to be some big >> The 1099 came in and she knew the money

had already come in. So the money, the fact that she had this income is not a surprise. That's bull crap.

You follow me? You don't get a $1099 for

$100,000 you didn't know was coming >> because you have the $100,000.

>> Okay. >> So, this is what's scaring me is that this is going to go on and on and on and on and on. Have they don't know if they've gone to the root of this and fixed it or not because 1099s just don't fly in the window without the money having already come a year before.

>> Is this a brand new business or has she been doing this for a while? Um, ever

since she retired. >> Okay. >> Which was when?

>> Uh, probably about three, four.

>> Okay. So, she's never paid her taxes right what we're saying. >> Yeah. I think this is compiling.

>> Yeah, she has. So, 23 is fine. 23 from

there is all fine. It was just the 24.

>> That's where it started to begin. >> Well, but 25 you don't know what it is.

Tell >> No, I don't. >> Tell me about your uh financial situation.

Um, I'm in debt myself. Um,

>> that's all I needed to know. >> Okay. So, and you said you were going to borrow the money. So, the answer to your question is no.

You don't borrow the money. But, let's help them anyway. Let's figure out how we can help them and you can go back to them with some advice. But you borrowing money for these people that make $210,000 and are out of control is a really bad idea.

So, no, I would not do that. Not in a million years. Now, should they borrow the money? You mentioned that she had the money, but she can't get to it.

So, um, other scenarios and situations

came up that that money that was set aside for those taxes had to be used for something else.

>> Well, that's pretty vague. What?

>> Well, I would say

things that came up due to housing, uh,

things that they need to fix around the house. Um, that's pretty much all the information I kind of got. So, can you all >> But she doesn't have the money like in some account she just doesn't want to touch. >> She spent the money to fix her kitchen or whatever, right?

>> Right. No, it's not that. >> Okay. So, >> there's no there's no They have no money.

>> Is that what you're telling me? >> Yes. >> Do they have anything they could sell?

Do they have vehicles with payments or no payments. Is there anything they could sell to to get this money?

>> Um, I would say both vehicles have a

payment. Um,

>> nothing in my mind I just come off the top of the head that could say they could sell. >> Okay. If I were to sit down with them and I was their coach, Brandon, here's what I would tell them. >> Okay. >> I would say, "You make $210,000 and you're completely out of control.

We've got to get your taxes set up. And you that those tax accounts are once you

set those money aside out of your 1099 income for your quarterly estimates, which you mentioned, it sounds like somebody knows what to do. Uh then that money is sacred. You do not touch it.

And I don't care what comes up. It's already spent. You don't have it anymore. You just have it in your name.

You have to forget you own that money.

And so nothing can come up. Your little brother needs a car, toughies. Nothing can come up. Some a some friend calls and wants a medical bill paid. Nothing.

You don't own this money anymore. It's already tax money. You have to quit even leaving it available emotionally. This is me talking to your parents. Okay?

>> So that this never ever ever ever comes back again. And then we need to work you out of debt with a budget, put you on

every dollar, and you guys are going to start living on way less than you make cuz you got a couple of stupid car payments and you owe the KGB, I mean the IRS, $27,000 freaking dollars. And so

we're going to put you on a payment plan with the IRS and they are the first debt you're going to pay off. And you're going to pay them off in less than 12 months. You make $210,000, you ought to be able to pay 30,000 off very, very quickly.

and just pay the IRS. That's what I would do. Would I go borrow money to pay the IRS? No, I would not. Not in this situation because I want to make sure that at the core of this, at the root that caused this problem that it goes away. And you borrowing money it to go get them out of this when they make this kind of money and and are this disorganized and chaotic is really suicidal for you, sir. Please do not do this. >> Yeah. How long have you been listening to our show?

Oh, wow. I actually uh learned from them

uh that told me about you guys.

>> Okay. So, that means you both have some

sense beyond this, right? Um and I want you to get serious about this. If you've been listening to the show, you know the things that we're teaching around here.

Um so, I want to make sure that today if we give you every dollar, will you go on there and will you start getting into the classes and every dollar and let it teach you what to do next?

>> Uh yeah. I already have Every Dollar.

We'll give it to you for your mom and dad. Let's see if we can get them moving along. But no, you don't. You knew before you called in here.

I wasn't going to tell you. We weren't going to tell you to borrow money. >> This is like, >> and we certainly weren't going to borrow money for this. >> This is like that scripture where the man looks in the mirror and he walks away and immediately forgets what he looks like.

It's not It doesn't happen by osmosis.

It doesn't happen automatically. You have to then go away and do the things that we teach. Otherwise, your life is not going to change. >> Yeah. Including when I went broke, Larry Briquette used to say that personal financial problems are not the problem.

They're the symptom, >> right, >> of something else going on.

>> So, in this case, you don't have a tax problem. You have an accounting problem because you didn't set set the money aside to pay your taxes. And then when you did, you went and did something stupid with it instead of paying your taxes. And so, now you got yourself between you and the government, which is a really horrible place to be for anybody. None of us want to be there.

>> Certainly not. These are not people with a sense of humor. These are not people that are powerless. They have lots of power uh to screw you over and they will. So, you need to get on a payment plan with them and get them paid off and never ever ever ever ever

touch your tax money for anything ever

again. >> Yeah. Period.

>> It's gone. It's already gone. You just moved it into an account. You hadn't given it to them yet, but it's already gone. It's just like withholding. It's gone. >> Yeah. I used to go in there and every month I'd put move the taxes over. I did not play games with that. >> No, you got you got to do it every time you write a check. >> Yeah.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Martina's in Phoenix. Hi, Martina.

What's up?

>> Uh, hi. Um, I uh two and a half years

ago I bought a a car and um it's a good

car. It's a 2018 Corolla. Um, but I have

a 16.5% interest on it and over half of

my payments go only to interest. Um, I'm

actually the co-signer on the car on the car and my mother is the main signer on

the car and I have had job instability,

housing instability over the years and I'm just not putting my life together.

Um, but currently I haven't even been able to make my February car payment.

So, um, I also rely on this car as a source of income. Um, so I don't What are What is your advice on the car? I would look for a different I would start looking for a different source of income that's not tied to this car. My guess is you're doing some of one of the delivery apps. >> Uh yeah, I'm actually a lift driver. Um

I had a deadend job uh that I quit that,

but I got a new job that is a really

good job, but um it just it doesn't start for a couple more weeks. So things are going to >> When what is how much are you going to be making at the new good job?

>> Um about 3 to 4,000 a year. It's >> You mean a month >> or a month? I mean, sorry. Uh, a month.

I um I I am a uh swim instructor and I'm

contracting with a pool that pays very well for their lessons. >> Okay. And then uh what's what do you owe? What's the total amount owed on this car? Uh >> I owe 16,200 and I originally paid

18,500.

>> Have you looked to see what it's worth?

>> If you looked on Kelly Blue Book, have you looked to see what it's worth private sale? >> Uh yes. It's 47500.

>> Oh boy. What happened to it?

>> She's been driving over.

>> Yeah, that's true. On and off. Destroyed the car. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, then your only choice here. You're I mean, you're going to have to pay it off cuz it's such a low value. Um and you're going to have to work quickly to do it. Is it your only debt?

>> Oh, definitely not. I've got about $50,000 in student debt and I ended up

dropping out of school uh due to mental health issues and I have about $25,000

20 to$25,000 in personal loans and credit cards and then I have an un I don't even know how many thousands of dollars in medical debt. Uh it I don't even like know.

>> So you're going to be doing you'll be doing swim lessons at this place. How long is it going to take you to build up your lesson pool to make 4,000 a month or is there a base pay?

>> Uh uh because I make uh I'm going to be

making about $30 to $40 an hour.

>> Are they are they going to work you 40 hours?

>> Uh that's the plan. But yeah, that's the

problem is that it does depend on how many clients they get. They do get a lot of clients.

Yeah, I' I'd be looking really deeply into that. Uh, first off, and my homework for you leaving this call is I would have something else lined up that gives me the ability to work because you don't know how many clients they're going to send your way and you don't know how quickly your calendar is going to fill up and you've got to get started on this debt ASAP because here's the thing, if you default on another payment, it's really going to mess with your mom. I'm sure it already has, right? >> Yeah.

So, she's already strapped a lot.

>> What What we've got to start with, let's go back to basics. All right.

>> Okay. >> Before you do anything else with money, you take care of food, shelter, basic clothing, transportation, and

utilities. Okay. Do you pay do you pay rent? I do and I live in the smallest,

cheapest apartment I could find here in Phoenix and I >> Perfect. So you pay the rent.

>> So you pay the rent and you go to the grocery store. Wait, stop. You pay rent.

You go to the grocery store. You get the car current before you do anything. All the other debts can wait till you pay rent. Get

the car current. Get get food on the

table. Okay.

Before you do anything, you got to bail a basic foundation in your life. That's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. Okay? Now, once you're current on the car, then you can decide,

let's reach out to the student loan people, let them know you need a hardship deferral and send them some of the paperwork on some of the mental illness issues you've had and just to let the bureaucrats have something to chew on for a little while while they wait around. You do nothing. You quit paying them for right now. And then you get this book of business at the the swim lessons full as fast as you can. And Jade's right. In the meantime, and even after, I want you to work all

the time cuz what you need to fix your

whole life right now is $16,000.

>> Yeah. >> If you had $16,000 and this car payment was gone, we could really get after some of those other debts, couldn't we?

>> Yeah. It feels like that that um car

loan is a big wall between me and basically the rest of my life. >> Agreed. Agreed. So, we need to go find an extra $2,000 a month for eight months

>> and smack this thing in the head.

>> Okay. >> But that's means like all you do is work, girl. You just work all in it. And it's not Uber. Freaking Uber is making the car worse. >> Mhm. >> Okay. you're putting so many miles on, you've destroyed the value of the car.

>> So, >> yeah, >> but if they if you could if you can work 80 hours a week with swim lessons, just put your fins on and go, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I mean, if you can't get if you can't get a bunch of hours down there, then let's find something else that you can do that that's the thing where you make the most possible money that's moral and legal.

>> Okay? Uh, >> and I want you to go cray cray for a while because the way you bust this is you throw dynamite in the middle of it. And the dynamite is dollar bills.

>> Okay, I like that.

>> And and you just say food,

shelter, lights, and water, and pay off

the stinking car. And that's all I am

breathing to do right now. I breathe in and out every morning. I'm tired cuz I work all the time. But by God, I'm making progress for the first time in five years.

>> Yes, >> you can do this. You can do it.

>> What was the nature of your mental illness stuff? >> Uh I have a uh level one high

functioning autism >> and that has made it hard for me to hold a regular full-time job. Yeah.

>> Um and then I also h have because of that stems like some anxiety and depression. >> Yeah. Um, I have over the last few months gotten on the right meds, gotten into the stable housing, and finally I'm starting to get my finances stable. I'm trying to do baby step one right now.

And >> here's the thing. Here's what I've worked with in 35 years of doing this, I've worked with a whole bunch of people that both had high level functioning autism. And I've worked with a whole bunch of people that had depression. And the thing I know is the depression is made worse when you feel trapped and

when you're not in action mode. When you get in action mode and get in warrior mode and get in attack mode, it helps

because it releases the dopamine and other things and it helps to melt away the depression. And the autism can the high functioning autism can actually work on in your favor in those situations because you have the ability to do extreme amounts of focus, don't

you?

>> Yeah, I am really good at teaching people to swim. And actually, the gym I'm working at is uh called Ability 360.

And it's actually an adaptive gym and most of their employees have some kind of disability. >> Okay. And anything you can do to help people work out if you could deal a personal trainer thing going.

>> I was going to say you need to go. >> What we're going to do is use all of this situation to your advantage >> to that that's the thing that has been a blocker for you. But because as you start melting away these debts first and foremost, you get this car off your back, off your mother's back, your brain is going to clear up. the fog that you've been walking in, the stress related anxiety of feeling trapped in

16% and feeling honestly shame about signing up for 16% too. That was dumb.

So, you're not dumb, but that was dumb.

So, you know, what you do is you get in attack mode, warrior girl. You put on your warrior stuff and you get after it.

Complete focus. I don't want you to pay anybody else. Just let them all go bad.

I don't really give a crap about your credit. You already don't have credit.

We know that cuz you had a 16.8% car payment. So, we know your credit's trash already.

So, I'm not worried about that at all.

I'm worried about you. I want you to be free. So, you hang on and we'll get you signed up for every dollar and that'll help you walk through this stuff as well.

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Michelle is with us in Reno, Nevada.

Hey, Michelle. How are you?

>> I'm well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. So, okay. My husband and I are in um baby step two and I feel like we've

kind of tripped ourselves up because we

don't know. He gets paid weekly and we're trying to decide if we should um do snowball like weekly or wait till the end of the month to pay off like a lump

sum.

So, when you go through and you do the paycheck planner on every dollar, do you know for sure at the end of the week that you can pay the money off and it won't come back to bite you in the butt later?

>> Um, I we have done it. We have about $400. So, I uh we have about $400

like extra at the end of the week >> to have in order to have all of our bills paid at the end of the month.

>> Yeah. I mean, I don't have a problem with that. That's the way Sam and I used to do it. but we got paid weekly and so it just made it easier and I made a schedule of making sure everything was covered, everything was good to go and then yeah, that that freed up freed us up to be able to do it that way.

>> So I I don't have a problem with that. I think that's great.

>> Okay. Because it just feels like we're not getting anywhere right now because and I think we're we're motivated by that like oh look, we paid this or we paid this. Yes. >> And it feels like we're not getting anywhere. And my I have one more.

>> We are getting anywhere. It's just a whole bunch of it at the end of the month, right?

>> Yes. Yes. First two weeks, you just buy groceries.

>> Groceries. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And rent and whatever. Yeah.

>> You're just trying to build in some momentum so that you feel like something's happening every week to keep you going. Am I right?

>> Correct. >> If there's any of the stuff you're paying in that first segment, look at your paycheck. Are you using paycheck planner on every dollar?

>> We are. >> Okay. If you look at that paycheck planner and say, I could roll this item from the first segment to the second segment and use some of that first segment money to get out of debt and that would keep me that momentum. And so if there's a bill that you're paying in the first set that can wait till the second set without being late or getting late fees or dinging your credit or something like that, anything you could push off into that other segment, use that money in the first segment for debt.

Right. >> Mhm. Yeah.

No, just in the first section. >> That's what we have.

>> Wait a minute. I'm sorry. Are you doing this weekly or bi-weekly?

>> We were trying to do it weekly.

>> So, you get paid weekly. >> I think he gets paid. We get paid weekly. Yes. >> Good. Okay. So, each week

figure out anything that doesn't have to

be in that week that could be in the next week to allow you to pay more debt in that week. That will give you that emotional being that each time we're paying some necessities and we're paying some debt. We're paying some necessities, we're paying some debt, we're paying. That'll give you that that sense of momentum.

But the math is basically the same. If you said, okay, the first two weeks we're paying only necessities, no debt, and the last two weeks we're paying all debt.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. And you are working at smallest to largest, right?

>> We are. >> And what is your smallest debt currently?

>> Smallest debt currently is 735.

>> Oh, good. That should What's your household income?

>> Uh, we bring home 7,600 a month.

>> And how much are you putting on debt a month?

>> The goal is to put um 1,400 a month.

>> Okay. So, that one's gone in one month, right? And another one. Yes.

>> Now, you told me I just want to check that because you told me you had $400 margin at the end of every month. I'm sorry, at the end of every week. So, where's the other 200?

>> I want to say it's about 430.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, that should be even more going towards the debt. >> Yeah. >> So, just double check that. I like the idea of doing it weekly. >> The other thing is you just started, didn't you?

>> We did just start. Yeah. >> That's okay. Nothing wrong with that.

But the way you're describing all of this is what gave me a hint to that fact fact. What will happen and Jade can testify to this too is the longer you do this uh the more intense you're going to get cuz you're going to start to see this stuff melt away >> and you're going to crunch some other stuff out of there. You're probably going to end up with more margin than just 14 or 1500.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yes.

>> Yeah. As you get further into this and you get used to the rhythm of it and you start to see it work, you're going to say, "I'm cutting that and I'm cutting that and I'm cutting that and you're going to work extra and I'm cutting that." >> Yeah. And if you don't have side hustles, you need to lock those in today because all of that all of that is going to go towards this and all of that is going to give you that momentum that you want to feel. >> Bobb's in Nashville.

Hey Bobby, what's up?

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, absolutely. So, I am, you know,

started to make some decent money. Um, my wife and I are about $80,000 in debt

and feels like we're not not quite

monthtomonth, but we're we're pretty drained. >> What's decent money to month? I >> I make about 150,000. My wife makes about 25,000. >> Okay. So, we have $175,000 income. How much debt have you got? >> That's right. >> 80,000. Not counting the house.

>> Not counting the house. >> Break the 80 down for me. How much of that's cars?

>> I got 22,000 in the car.

>> Okay. Only one car debt. Okay. What's the other uh what's the other 58,000?

>> So 20,000 in personal loan and the rest in consumer debt, credit cards.

>> Okay. So you got 40 in credit cards

>> about. That's right. >> Yeah. Okay. >> What caused that 40,000 in credit card debt?

>> Say that again. I'm sorry. >> What caused the 40,000 in credit card debt?

>> Um, we moved actually to the Nashville area about 5 years ago. So, there was some of that and moving costs and there

was some medical bills, stuff like that.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> And some overspending and stuff like that.

>> 100% agree. Yes. Correct.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. So, it sounds like you recently got a raise.

>> Yes, recently did get a raise. uh started a new job just >> that gives you a wake up call. Okay, we got to clean this crap up now, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay, good. That's a good place to be.

That's a good place to be emotionally.

All right. So, what we teach is a process called the baby steps. You may have heard of it where we list your debts or we say first get $1,000 set aside. Second one is list your debts smallest to largest. Live on beans and rice, rice and beans, scorched lifestyle, no going out to eat, no vacations, no whining, work all the time, and pay off the stinking debt as fast as you can. Oh, by the way, y'all need to have a plastic surgery party tonight and cut up those credit cards.

Light a candle, have a ceremony, and chop those things up. They are destroying your freaking life. They're half of your debt. >> Yeah. >> And the next time we get ready to buy something, we're going to pay for it or we're not buying it. too. We >> we also have, you know, I have three kids. They're all in their activities.

So, there's, you know, travel baseball and competitive dance and we're we're paying a healthy portion. >> Well, maybe there is or maybe there isn't. You make $175,000 a year. Can you afford to continue to do that? You ask you and your wife ask yourselves and get this debt paid off >> because you know, I'm telling you, I'm not putting the family in debt for travel baseball. >> Yeah. Something's going to you're going to feel the sacrifice of this somewhere.

It's either >> I don't know if you can do it or not. You guys got to look at it. But but you the two of you need to don't don't start this conversation with a reason you can't do this >> cuz you can do it. It's just a matter of how who's crying, >> right?

Yeah. We we definitely need to get better about our budget. We we haven't really tightened that up as well. So, >> you don't even have one.

You don't have to get better about it. You're going to have to do one and then you're going to have to be sacrificial about it. And the more sac So here's the deal. You make 175.

not counting taxes, you'd be debtree in a year, >> right? >> But that's going to require a way different lifestyle than you guys have been living cuz y'all been buying everything in sight like you're in Congress. And nobody in your house has heard the word no in a long time. Kids, you, your wife, anybody. So y'all are going to start looking at each other and go no. cuz it's stealing your future.

You make too much money now for this to continue to be the way to do things. Too many people get a raise and the way they celebrate it is a new car payment

and you got to stop that. This has to be broken. This is a cycle that breaks. So you sit down with your wife tonight and go, "Okay, time for us to be grown-ups and we're going to have to reintroduce the ancient word to our household." The word is new.

>> Period. >> It's a complete sentence. >> Yeah, it is. Everybody practice it with me. You press your tongue towards the roof of your mouth. Make a kissing motion with your lips. It sounds like this. No. It's illegal to say that to

any group or person in America today.

No. But it's a healthy word. It sets you

free.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Waw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Nicole is in Detroit. Hi Nicole. How are you? >> Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I better than we deserve.

How can we help? >> Yeah. Um so I was calling um so

basically my husband has refused to

put like give me financial visibility into his life. Um he has put his foot

down like you know literally like no you

cannot see anything that I have going on financially. I can tell you about it.

>> Um but you you can't know anything

that's going on. Um, and the reason why

it happened is we were in a position to buy a home and the the housing counselor

and the lender that we were working with asked about our finances and I found myself saying, "Well, I don't I don't know. Um, let me hold let me hold on.

Let me ask my husband." And then I after our call was done, I told my husband, I said, you know, I shouldn't have to say hold on to anyone. Let me ask my husband, >> right? I should know what's going on, you know, in that part of your life.

It's like we're roommates. It's like you you over here have me.

>> He He said, "I'm a grown man. I do not

have to show you anything financially in my life." I said, "But you're a deacon.

You're a deacon and you're my husband."

I said, "We're supposed to be one. That you saying that makes us not be one." And what he said >> me showing you my money have nothing to do with us being one. My husband is a deacon. >> Yeah. But this is >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So where are we now?

>> So I moved out. Um we we were in a

rental. Um when I when we came together eight years ago, it was it was his house. So I moved in with him. We've been there for eight years. We were trying to work on getting our own house.

And because all this I mean it it's so bad days. It It's so bad.

>> But what else is going on? Cuz this was explosive. So what else is going on? I I

have a feeling that it wasn't This has not been the only issue is what I'm gathering.

>> Yep. Nope. So he has a 21-year-old son.

Um and his son is very disrespectful. Um

he basically it's basically like he runs

the house. And if I try to say anything to him about his son, what his son does, if I try to tell him stuff that goes on when he's not around, he never believes me. >> Uhhuh.

>> So it's just it it's just bubbling over.

>> Yeah. >> How can we help you today, hun?

>> So I just want to know.

So we've separated. He has filed divorce

papers, but I haven't signed them yet.

I'm trying to talk to him, but he is not talk to a bull. Got you. That's even a word. That's not a word. >> Have you suggested some sort of counsel?

Have you suggested, "Hey, this is really bad. We need to get in counseling." What did he say? >> Yes, I said that and he said, "No,

because you're that person is not going to tell me that I have to allow you to see my money." >> See, here's the thing, and I'm just going to go ahead and say this. This is based off of just what you've told me, so take it with a grain of salt. this it

based on what you're saying, there's something going on he doesn't want you to see. And maybe it does have to do with his uh stature or how people view

him. He doesn't want you to have any parts of what he's doing with his money.

Maybe that's a blessing. He's the one that's filed for divorce. Maybe this is you dodging a bullet. I don't know. I don't know. But this sounds like somebody who doesn't it sounds like somebody who's got extremely high pride that they cannot be told nor learn anything about a better way to exist in a relationship. That's what you've told me. >> Yeah. The um and the the weird thing is is that uh all of his finances are now going to get exposed >> in the divorce, right?

>> It's ironic. >> The judge is not going to go along with his plan. >> It's very ironic. 100% of his finances

have to be exposed or he's going to have to lie to the court which will get him put in jail. So, uh you don't lie to the court, not even divorce court. So,

you know, he has to come he has to show all the stuff to the lawyers and it has

to all come before the judge and he's going to find out that half of it yours.

That's going to be very weird for him.

>> Yeah. Well, we only been married two years. >> Yeah. That doesn't matter. >> Oh, I thought it was eight. So, you've been in the house for six years together, eight years, married, too.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Uh, what are you concerned about? Are you concerned that there's debt that your name might be on >> that you don't know about? >> So, actually, so before we separated,

um, I had to find out the hard way that he had a garnishment on my on my account. And so, I had to ask him

several times to get it taken care of.

um he got them to remove it and put it on his bank account, but he was not happy about it.

>> And you know, so I was just like, for

you to be so angry with me and telling me, "No, you won't allow me to see you financially, but you got a garnishment on my on my account." How is that fair?

>> There's probably some shame going on that you don't know about. There's probably a lot here going on that you don't know about. And it's now granted I

don't know what parts you've contributed to whatever mess is here. I'm sure there's is two, you know, two sides to everything. But um >> but my guess is there's some things going on that might be causing him some shame or you know it might might be just the way he views >> uh those gender roles that you guys never aligned on that money is the man's thing and it's not who knows. But there it's never going to come out cuz he won't go to counseling with you.

>> Yeah. It's going to come out in the divorce. you're going to find out everything about his money in the divorce. Um, which is the irony of him filing for divorce because you wanted to find out what was going on with the money.

So, it's kind of ironic and he just he's just he's just dumb enough he doesn't know that. So, this is going to be a real surprise to him.

>> Uh, cuz the judge doesn't really care about judge doesn't really care about his theories. >> He's just going to tell him what to do and if you don't do it, you're in contempt of court and it's really nasty.

You don't want you don't want to screw around with the judge. >> So, um, This is this is where he's going. The question you asked, I have a sad, horrible answer for what can I say

to him to do to make him want to do

this. And the answer is nothing. There's not anything you can say to him.

>> I wish there was one phrase, one way of

doing it. But this is a very entrenched

position that he has taken to the point he's willing to give up his marriage

>> over this. And so there's not a single phrase. If he was coming to the table

and saying, "Hey, I want to work on this. Let's go to counseling." I could give you some things to say to do all that. But but in this situation,

you know, you're just going to be uh you know, just throwing water against the wall. There's nothing happening here.

So, um I I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you

chose poorly in a husband. This guy This

guy's bad news. >> Too bad. Yeah. Um, you wouldn't, no one listening that has a daughter would want their daughter to marry this guy.

Not a person out there. Uh, regardless of how much Nicole contributed or whatever else was going on in the house, all that kind of thing. But >> this is a guy that isn't is not in a good place and he's not helpful and he's not a good husband and >> that's sad. >> You're, you know, there's not a single phrase that's going to make him not be a jerk.

I don't have the not be a jerk phrase.

And I'm sorry. I wish it was. I wish it wasn't something we could just do. But unless he just decides that he wants to be together, unified, work together in

full visibility, and in order to save his marriage and start with a marriage

counselor, then you're you're not going to make it, kiddo. I'm sorry. I wish you were.

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Maria is in Arkansas. Hi, Maria. How are

you? >> Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

I'm a little nervous, so I'll try to do my best. >> Um, but I guess I'm trying to get an advice for my husband and I. Um, we're trying to start building our forever home. Um, and sometimes we're like, "Yeah, let's go ahead and, you know, get in bed, you know, take a loan out." And then there's times where we usually be like, "Well, what if we just cash flow everything and call it a day." >> Um, we are debtree.

>> Um, we don't have any car payments, anything like that. >> That's good. >> And we have been saving um for the past couple of years. Both of us got >> um a raise, a pretty big raise.

>> So, how much have you saved?

Uh, right now it's a little bit over

180k. >> 180. >> What?

>> 80. >> $180,000.

Wow. And what is the house going to cost?

>> Um, the quote that we got, it's around

between 380 and 390.

>> Okay.

Did you save 180 in two years?

>> Yes. >> Wow. >> Excellent.

Yes. So, you know, like I said, we're trying to figure out if it's okay for us to stop investing right now just for a couple of years. >> Yeah. >> Or um you know, to put all that money into cash flow in the house or if it's okay for us to take out a heliloc.

>> Did you save 180 while investing 15%.

>> Yes. No, we were not investing 15%.

We're only investing between 5 and 8%.

>> Okay. Okay. Good. I would stop investing completely. I'm with you. And I would cash flow this thing. And here's the thing you need to remember.

>> It t it'll take you a year to build it.

>> Correct. >> So, you can start in one year

cuz you need two years worth of savings.

You'll have the whole amount, right?

>> Yes. That's what we're hoping for. You know, if everything works out the way, you know, we can find it.

>> I would I would start the house in one year. I'd get all my plans done. Have you got the lot already?

Yes. >> And it's already paid for.

>> Yes. We Is it paid for?

>> I'm sorry.

>> Yes, it's paid for. >> Okay, good. So, all we got to do is just cover the bricks and mortar. Do you have your plans done?

>> Yes. >> You have your builder selected?

>> Yes. >> Awesomeness. Okay. Well, what we do on

what I've done a couple times, including the building we're sitting in, as a matter of fact, I did not have a 100% of

the money in the bank when we broke ground, but I knew it would be here by the time I needed it. Meaning that if it takes you a year to build and um it takes you two years to save the money, then you'd be safe to start building in one year. Does that make sense to you?

>> Yes. Yes, definitely.

>> Yeah. And uh if you can do do this in two years and stop everything and and you'll have a paid for $380,000 plus the

lot 400 $450,000 house.

>> Sweet. >> How old are you guys?

>> I'm 32 and he's 37.

>> That's amazing. >> What's your incomes?

>> Uh it'sund and around 150.

>> How'd you save this money so fast?

>> You guys live on nothing, don't you?

Well, we we I think we're pretty good savers. I think that's the way >> I think you're above average. Yeah, >> it's very impressive.

>> And you are small, so we don't have that much. >> If you move if you moved in two years from today, would you be okay with that?

>> Uh I think I just want to go ahead and get started. I don't mind getting the loan just because I guess I'm more of of the on the emotional side just you don't

really want loan. You just want a house?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> I guess you can say that.

>> Okay. Well, I mean, >> but like I said, we we >> teach what we teach is best is paying

cash. Next best is a house you can pay off in 15 years. In your case, you can pay it off in one year.

If you started today and it was finished in one year, you would need to borrow one year's worth of savings rate or about $100,000. and you pay that off in one year. >> Mhm.

>> Yes. I see. >> My my fear is is that you'll let your foot off the gas and not pay it off in one year.

>> That's my fear. So I I would love to

talk you into waiting just one extra year, which will go pretty fast. I mean

>> to me it feels like CO was like last month and it was five almost six years ago.

>> I agree. >> Yeah. And so this my point is this thing goes fast. So if you start um

you know I don't know you guys keep talking about it but anywhere in there is fine with me. If you want to start now you're not doing anything stupid.

It's not it's good, better, best. Okay.

And okay what what you guys are talking about cash flow and 100% is the best. I love that. There's no hiccups in that.

uh you know better than but but you know

and still in the good range is pay it off in one year which is if you took a loan out today and you don't need to take out a loan today you'd need to take out a loan somewhere in the building process because you won't quite have enough to finish it >> correct >> but I mean you could get started today put 180 into it >> if you sloww walk the project >> I was going to say >> and it takes 18 months >> you'll be there >> you can make it you know you'll make it out Okay.

I like the plan of taking dead off the table. And we have to push this through >> cuz it makes you do a whole bunch of stuff. >> Keeps you from having scale creep uh in

the kitchen.

>> You know, you select a different dishwasher, you select a different whatever. >> And I'll add one other thing to this on the emotions. Okay? You can justify a

lot of things emotionally when you say it's my forever house. And I've been doing this for a long time and I grew up with parents in the real estate business. There is no such thing as a forever house.

You will not be there forever. Okay?

>> Statistically, the chances of you dying in this house are very close to zero.

Very close. So this idea of a forever house, there's only one. It's heaven.

That's it. You don't have a forever house here. You're going to move.

Stuff's going to happen. Things are going to change that you can't see, good and bad, that are going to give you an opportunity to move up, move out, move somewhere. And this is a great house and it's a great plan and all of that, but take the pressure off of a forever house because

it's like because then everything has to be perfect. And I've built a bunch of houses that I live in and they're never perfect. It's never a perfect process.

It's a very messy uh combative,

combustive process. And if you put the pressure on it that it has to be perfect because we're going to be here forever. Um, it's just too much. You can't breathe in that. >> Yeah. Plus, you're going to look at it in five years and and want things to look a little different anyway.

>> Oh, I don't even want to talk about it. >> Just saying. Sounds like you have a little experience with that,

>> man. I I Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I But the

And I I sold I was actually when I was 22, I was in were selling houses in a subdivision where we built custom homes.

Mhm. >> And the people in there that were the hardest to deal with were the ones that had had uh they thought this was the going to be their last home, >> right? >> Or their only home ever. And and that puts the pressure on the process to be perfect. >> They're over there every day driving the subs crazy. You know, let them do their work. It's it's a dry it's a piece of drywall. Let them do their job. Okay.

God, for God's sakes, >> you know, and it's just it and and it changes the pressure on how fast we get this done and how much money we take and how much money we spend and all that. >> So anyway, all that to say, Maria, I think you guys have done an extraordinary job. Way to go. We're proud of you.

And if you start this month and you take on a little debt and you pay it off fast, that's not the dumbest thing in the world, but one step smarter would be to cash flow it.

build it. Oh, now we made it. You know, that kind of thing. >> Yeah. I think that's what's going to end up happening anyway. >> Yeah. Takes a minute. Takes a hot minute to get all this stuff done. Uh but yeah, it's a great great way to go. And when you're paying cash like this, you're going to watch every dollar in the budget with the builder. Make sure everything's dialed in and uh you push all those buttons. It makes a big deal.

I don't get that call very often.

>> No, I love a call like that. She has options and she has time which is >> and she's got money and money >> saved it all. They live on nothing.

>> Yeah. >> Pretty impressive.

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John is with us. John's in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, I'm 22 years old. I'm graduating college in May, and I want to buy a car, but I'm not sure if I can afford it. >> Okay. >> All right. Well, how much money do you have, and how much do you want to spend on the car? So, the car is about $13,000 and I have

about $11,000 in cash. Um, but I do have

some savings, some investments, about 40,000. Um, as well as, you know, $9,000

in a Roth IRA. >> What do you mean?

>> Um, so I'm going to be graduating in 3 months and when I graduate I'll make about $65,000 a year.

>> Doing what?

Um, >> going into the wholesale insurance industry. Okay.

>> And you've already secured that job?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Cool, cool, cool. I mean, if you're going to be making 65, you're under our rule. Um, and you're paying cash for it. Um, I don't necessarily have an issue with that. What's going to be your living situation?

>> Um, I'm just going to keep living with my parents and maybe help them pay off the mortgage. >> Now, that's the part that I have issue with. Um, tell me about why you would

continue to live there. I'm assuming you don't have any other debt. Am

I wrong?

>> Um, is because it's they only live about 30 minutes from where I'll be working.

Um, and I'd rather start saving up money before getting a place of my own.

>> Uh, you may have cut out when I asked you about the debt. Do you have any other debt? >> I have no debt. >> You have no debt. So, >> you know, $40,000 in savings.

>> Uh-huh. $65,000 income >> and a brand new car. Why do you got to live at home? This is your time to strike out.

Really? Right after I graduate.

>> Oh, absolutely. >> Yes. It's the best time.

The most exciting time.

>> Okay. >> I hope your dating life, too.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. I'll bet. >> Yeah. Girls are not as exactly attracted to guys who live in their mother's basement.

>> Wow. So, >> it's true. You know, it's okay to pull

money out of my investments, even though about half of it, 20,000, is capital gain. So, >> what do you need to pull back? $2,000,

>> right? But what's the car you're wanting to buy? >> So, it is a 1999 Mercedes SL500.

>> No, I would not buy that car.

>> Oh, come on. >> No. And here's why. The car is absolutely stone cold fabulous.

I love the car. The maintenance on that

car for a guy in your situation is

absurd.

Maintaining that old Mercedes is going to cost you a freaking arm and one of your legs.

>> It's going to it's going to destroy you, man. You're going to wish you had never seen that car. Let me tell you, it it's serious eye candy, though. I'm with you.

It is an absolutely beautiful automobile, and it's a classic. I love what you're looking at, but dude, it's going to cost you five, six th,000 bucks a year to keep this stinking thing rolling.

Can you tell I've owned a Mercedes or two >> or six or 20? I mean, I've had a bunch

of them and there's a lot of cost to

keep the thing rolling. Get you something that doesn't cost anything to maintain that is going to be just as much fun. And that would be a newer model, similar price range of something

that doesn't require constant stinking maintenance.

>> Okay, >> that's that's old man joke, man. But it's the truth. >> So, we've just told you to do the two things not to do the two things that you called on here wanting to do, WHICH IS BUY BUY THE Mercedes and live at your parents house. >> What What are the What are the odds you do either one of them, John?

I will. I will. Don't worry.

>> Okay. All right. So, yeah, I I think if you had a uh a fun car that was very

highly reliable and requires almost no maintenance that is 13 to or 10 to $15,000 and you pay cash for it and you make a 90-day plan to move out for mom and dad after you get started in your job and you're actually making the 65k, I think that's a great plan and that's what I would tell my own son to do.

>> Okay. buy something that doesn't require maintenance.

>> Man, I tell you that's a great car, though. >> I I don't know anything about the car. I just Googled it to see what it looked like. Classic. It was classic.

>> It's It's a I think it's a beauty.

>> Yeah, classic. >> It's a good old looking good looking old Mercedes. And >> yeah, >> it's great. But they just It doesn't matter. Every time I take the thing to the shop, it's just like dad come, man.

It's unbelievable.

>> And so they are not easy to maintain.

>> Well, >> they're not cheap to maintain. and and the fact you buy a cheap car, but then you're having a high maintenance bill, >> right? >> If you're going to buy a cheap car and then get something that doesn't have a have to you work on all the time. >> Yeah. Let's talk about real quick this uh living at home business because he

was the stark opposite of Alvaro who did

his debtree scream on Friday.

>> Okay. So, uh, Alvaro graduated from

college, similar age, and lived at home, made his parents a deal, and said, "Can I live at home debtree for me to pay off, I think it was 70 or $90,000 of student loans, >> cuz he had done the math and said, if I pay interest, if I do this, it's going to take too long." And he said, "And after a year, if I'm not working hard enough, you can charge me double rent." >> And so, a year passed, they saw he was working very hard. He ended up paying off all the student loans, did his debtree scream.

Perfect example of saying, "I'm gonna graduate. I'm gonna live at home for a short period of time in order to win.

>> And I I personally >> wouldn't do that unless you have debt to pay off, but just to sit at home and just stack up money at such a key point in life when it's time for you to go out and be your own person, I just wouldn't do it. I think it's more uh detriment than good at that point.

Yeah, the just my personal opinion.

You're >> you're trying to look at this only through the lens of money and there's social development, there's career development, there's confidence, um there's everything else involved.

>> So each one of our kids, we love them dearly and they were more than welcome to stay in our home forever except it wasn't good for them. >> Yeah. >> And so uh we help them make arrangements

within a month or two of graduation to be on their own. And then when you pay your own light bill, you make your own bed, you buy your own milk, now you're an adult.

Your mommy's not cleaning your underwear. I mean, it's time, you know,

and honestly, you're more attractive to employers because you walk different.

You're more attractive to the opposite sex because you walk different. You have the shoulders thrown back, a little confidence, little swagger, like I got this thing. >> Yes. >> And I'm, you know, and I'm actually doing it. And there's a confidence that comes from having the dignity of being

on your own. And we've got a large percentage of you parents out there who are encouraging your children to not develop into adults because you got a whole bunch of 26 year olds living in mommy's basement. And they've all got an opinion about capitalism with their $1,100 Apple phone, which is more than

just humorously stupid as well. So the

uh you know, it changes everything. I think it changes everything when you start. It's on me. There's no bread in

the cabinet cuz I didn't buy bread. It's on me and it changes everything.

>> I think so. And >> and I I we're we're hurting this generation by not allowing them to do some hard things. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, no shade on John, like he's done a great job. He, you know, came out of college with no debt. He's got money saved. All of those good things.

But that's also understanding you're in a great position to be on your own. It's okay. This is why you do this. >> This is good.

>> Yeah. I left with a $112 in my checking account. So >> Oh, yeah. >> That's how hillbillies do it.

I'm just saying. But yeah, >> when I moved out, >> get out. >> When I moved out of my parents house, I moved into a friend's apartment that already had two roommates.

>> Oh. >> And that's all I had. But I wanted to get out. I was ready. >> Hello. Net worth. Yeah. when your net worth is a futon. >> It's all I had. It was not comfortable.

>> 10 out of 10. Wouldn't recommend.

town.

Hey

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might not be in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Mason in New Hampshire. He says, "I bought a house about 5 years ago. My name is on the deed and my dad cosigned so I could get a lower interest rate.

Now, my dad is pressuring me to refinance to get his name off the loan.

I'm not behind on payments. Am I legally obligated to do this? I don't think I should have to refinance because he made the choice to sign for me." Uh, I like this question. Are you legally obligated? No, you're not legally obligated. My guess is your dad is

trying to do something else financially.

Maybe he's I don't know. Who knows? Maybe he's trying to buy a house, but he's got a lot of this debt tied to his name, or maybe he realized co-signing is

really a stupid, stupid act, and he's trying to make that right. I don't know what you guys' uh conversations have been like, but if I were in your shoes, Mason, um my guess is one of two things is taking place. Number one, if you've looked at refinancing to get his name off and you've realized you cannot afford the loan on your own, that might be something that's keeping you from doing this. Um, and if that's the case,

I >> if you paid the bill for 5 years and you paid it on time, refinancing should not be a problem. >> It shouldn't be. >> The co the cost to refinance, maybe your dad wants to chip in some of that to get them get his name off the loan.

>> And um, so >> my guess is it's an interest rate thing.

Uh, no. My guess is he just didn't want to fool with it and he thought this was a forever deal. So, here's the bottom line, Mason. What you all did was stupid.

He should not have done this because at the moment he was trying to help his kid get a house.

But there was no end to the deal in your

mind. In his mind, he wants to get off

of it now. and you're just like, well, he could stay on there forever and screw up his life forever because he can't buy nothing else as long as his name is on this. This is a liability in his name.

So, he's he's gonna have trouble getting a mortgage himself is the problem >> or refinancing his mortgage is a problem. Anything like that, >> he can't do anything. He's stuck.

>> So, it was a stupid idea and now you

guys are tied at the hip and it's not bothering you at all.

So it Yeah. Yes, you should refinance this on a moral basis, not on a legal basis. If at all possible, I'd figure out a way to refinance it. And if I was your dad and I wanted off this loan, I'd pay the closing cost so to get to get rid of the thing. >> Yeah. >> And I help you guys get it done and get the deal done. So here's the thing,

folks. If someone can't afford to buy

the property or buy the item without a co-signer, it's going to be a pinch later.

The banks, they love to loan money more than they love to breathe.

And if they won't loan you money without a co-signer, it's because you're not eligible. Hello. They would love to give

you money >> and rip you off in any possible way they can. And then parents come along and go, "Oh, I'll help you get screwed." >> You know, that's just dumb.

And and dads and moms, you're not h you're not a blessing to your child when you do this. You're helping them step into a bear trap going, "Step right here, son. This is how it's done." Well, that's dumb. Okay. Don't do this.

Because you get in these situations is what happens. Worse than this situation is where the guy's not paying the bill.

We get that one all the time. >> Exactly. >> Oh, my grand my grandmother my grandmother co-signed for my car and it's 42% interest. And now my granny's

about to get screwed cuz I'm going to get repoed. 100% of these deals go bad.

Of course, it goes bad. So, please, please, please do not cosign. It's in the Bible. Proverbs 17:18.

One lacking in sense cosigns for another. It's what the Bible says. So,

you're lacking in sense when you do this. I have cosigned back in my other earlier days, and I got to pay the bill almost every time. >> One fool cosigned for me, and then I went broke >> and he ended up paying the bill. Oh, man. and they had to go back and pay him back later. His wife still not happy with me 30 years later cuz we were fools

signing up for a bunch of crap that we thought was going to work out that everybody else knew wasn't going to work out. Carson is in Cincinnati. Hey Carson, how are you?

>> Good. Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay, so my wife and my stepson, they

live separate from me. They're German citizens and they're waiting to get their visas approved so they can live here with me. But that is expected to

take anywhere between one to two years from now. >> Are they in Germany?

>> They are. Yes, sir. >> Okay. So my question is,

how should I be prioritizing my time alone and what debts should I be

focusing on to make sure that my family is set up for success when they get here? >> And how long have you been married?

>> September. >> Cool. And how'd you meet?

>> I was stationed over there in the army.

>> Thank you for your service. Okay.

>> Thank you. So, if you get married, I I don't know how this stuff works. I'm ignorant about it. It takes two years to get a foreign citizen wife on site.

>> Well, uh, if we had gotten married while I was still in the army, it would have been a lot quicker, but we decided to get married after I got out and the

current administration has been very fluid with immigration. So, that was the

update I received was 12 to 24 months.

Shoot. >> Okay. I'm going to keep getting updates and I'm going to keep uh learning if I'm you because that's an unacceptable answer as far as I'm concerned. But the um because the current administration has not got a war going with people coming here legally. It's the ones coming here illegally. And so they're not trying to put a block on immigration in general. That's not that's not the spirit of what's happening out there right now. Uh I was with some customs guys yesterday. So anyway, I don't know

anything about the law on that or the regulations today, but I'm going to keep pushing if I mute. Answer to your question is, well, get out of debt as fast as you can, as much as you can, and stack as much cash as you can. Right.

>> Right. Okay. So, I got the numbers and I'll share them with you. Okay.

>> Tell us. >> Okay. So, my net income, I receive

$5,200 a month for my job, and I receive

compensation from the VA for injuries.

That is $2,300 a month

>> on top of the 52.

>> Yes. For a total of $7,500 net per

month. >> Good. Okay.

the debts that I have. I have a mortgage

for a house that I bought for 153,000.

I have 140 remaining on the mortgage.

Uh I have 26,000 in home renovations on

a loan that I've got and $13,000 in

student loans and $4,300 in credit card

debt. Okay, cut up the credit cards.

Let's get on a tight budget. Pay them off as fast as you can, then pay off the student loan. You ought to be able to do that pretty quick if it's just you.

Are you sending money to Germany?

>> I am. A portion of my check is going over there to her to support her while we wait. >> How is she How is she being supported before you got married?

>> So, she still works a job right now. Uh she has just moved out of her apartment to her mother's house to get ready for when we do get the green light for the visa to move over here. >> Does she have any debt or anything uh that we need to take note of?

>> She has a $6,000

loan on the car remaining and I've offered to pay that off for her but she has elected not to.

>> Is there she has a sense of >> she has a sense of duty to pay it off.

She feels it was her loan. She wants to

pay it off herself. >> Well, here's the thing. I I know that you guys are living separately, but you are married, so there's really no reason to not uh attack this together and work

on this together. So, I I mean, if the $6,000 car loan is the only thing, even if it wasn't, I would still stack this into a debt snowball. And I would still combine you guys' margin together and all of your monies together. And whatever the margin you both have together goes at the smallest debt, which in this case still >> she's still working and she went from an apartment to mother. She shouldn't be needing money.

>> That's true. There should be more.

>> She was making it before. >> Now she should be easily making it. And so you shouldn't be have having to send money and use it to clean up debt. What I would do. But hey, it sounds like you got it got it on the run though. List your debts smallest to largest. Attack them in that order, dude.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washoff, Ramsey personality is my co-host, number one bestselling author. Carrie is in Detroit. Hey, Carrie. What's up?

>> Hi. Longtime listener, big fan. I'd like to thank you very much because I'm finally to baby step four.

>> Way to go. >> Way to go.

>> Um, I am 51 years old. Oh, going to be 51 years old this year. Um, I have not invested anything. I was widowed very young. Um, I just spent the last 17

years trying to survive and raise my two kids. Um, like I said, I just got to baby step four. I have about 20,000 put away into savings. >> Good. >> Um, I have nothing left but my house, which I have about 90,000 on, and I am about six years into a 15-year mortgage on that. >> Phenomenal. What do you make?

>> Um, I make roughly around 64,000 a year.

It is a little bit variable because I'm in business for myself. Um, so I'm a

housekeeper, >> so there are times that people cancel on me. So, >> um, but for the most part, my income is right around 5,500 a month.

>> Good for you. Well done.

>> Um, my question is is never investing,

never having any type of retirement or anything. Where do I start to invest?

especially with the market being volatile and having no financial

education on how to invest money at this

point. >> Okay, that's a really really good question. I love your question.

>> Also, do I invest more than 15% at this

point because I have a little bit of cash fluidity? >> Nope. You put it on the house. Let's get the house paid off above 15%.

>> Maybe steps four, five, and six work together. Uh, sit down with a Smart Investor Pro. Click Smart Investor Pro at Ramseysolutions.com.

Their job is not to do it for you. Their

job is to teach you and say, "Here's how a mutual fund works. Here's what it is.

Here's how stable this type of fund is.

Here's how volatile this other type of fund is. And here's what we can do with a Roth IRA for you." and probably a you

got employees.

>> No, I am sole proprietor and okay then

uh you can look at a uh a simple IRA as well or a simplified pinching plan.

Either one you can do Roth in all of them. So you can easily get to 15% of your income going in. You'll be just easy to do that in your situation. start with just a Roth and then if you have to do a little bit more in an SEP, a simplified employee pension plan, it's easy to do and they're very easy to set up. They're very inexpensive to set up, not a lot of fees.

And then just start putting a systematically 15% of your income away.

If you never get a raise and you do that for the next 15 years, you're going to retire with dignity.

>> Thank you. Because that has been a huge worry of mine. >> No, >> not anymore. Not when you learn the math. Okay. So, one of the things you do when you sit down with them and you say, "Okay, what's 15% of 65,000?" All right, so quickly we're

going to figure out that that is $10,000. Okay, it's about 850 bucks a

month. And you start doing that and you do that for 15 years, you're going to have a bazillion freaking dollars, hundreds of thousands of dollars. I can't do it in my head right now, but you're going to have plenty. Okay?

And uh you can actually look at the calculator on the Ramsey website and it'll help you figure that out too. But um you just steadily invest and we're

not going to ring our hands and worry about the market being volatile because the market is up, the market is down, but you don't lose all your money. It just makes a little more, it makes a little less. That's all it is. It's like some years houses go up more in value and some years they don't. Right.

>> Right. >> But they're still a good investment. They're volatile, but there's a good investment. Not very volatile, but they're vol. They do go up and down. There's not a guarantee, but you're counting on the track record of real estate. It's always gone up. Some years

more than others. Some years may be down a little, but most the time it goes up.

A good mutual fund or series of mutual funds in your Roth IRA will do the same thing. And you'll have plenty. You're going to be okay. But you need to learn about all of that and to where because

what happens is your anxiety about the markets, your anxiety about investing and not knowing goes away the more you do know.

>> Absolutely. Because right now I am completely bound by fear cuz I'm I don't know anything. And it's just it's taken me so far just to get to this point.

>> And what that fear should do is drive you to learn,

not drive you to not do it.

>> Right. And that's where I've been hesitant. >> Exactly. So that that's normal. There's two there's two kinds of There's two kinds of fear for me. >> There's two kinds of fear. Fear that helps us avoid touching a hot stove.

Good fear. Fear that keeps us That's

false evidence appearing real. It's just something we don't know about it. We're teaching our child to ride a bicycle.

They're afraid. But you and I know they're going to be okay. They may fall over, scratch their little knee, but they're going to be okay. And they're going to have hours and hours and hours and years of enjoyment of riding a bicycle. So, we put them to push them through the false evidence appearing real. They're not going to die. They're going to fall over. Oops. Okay. And so,

you learn that this is that's what this is. You're learning to ride a bike.

You're not going to have a any scratch knees, by the way. But you are going to have the fear of the unknown, which is different than the fear of the hot stove.

>> Okay, >> you can do this. If I were in your shoes, I would start with reading. And

Ramsey Solutions has wonderful articles that are very easy to read and comprehend and understand. And I would start there. And if a word pops up that you're like, what do they mean by that?

I would look up the definition. And I would just go down that rabbit trail and and learn more and more and more. And do that regularly. And after a while, the words that used to sound scary and big and you don't know what that means, that goes away.

And you start to understand it more. And that way when you do go to meet with your smart vetor, you're going to understand what they're talking about and it's not going to feel like they're up here and you're down here.

>> That's their job is to make this easy.

Make it easy to understand. And if it's not easy to understand, get you a different person. Don't use that person.

>> Correct. Um, are there any books that you would also recommend?

>> Um, Baby Steps Millionaires.

>> Okay. Matter of fact, we'll give it to you. Okay, hang on. We'll sign you up for that. Yeah, just check smartvester pro at ramseysolutions.com and sit down.

You're looking for financial people with the heart of a teacher. Too many people

around numbers think they need to sound like Charlie Brown's teacher. Wow. Wow.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I have no idea what the freak they said. Right. So, no.

You want somebody that talks in in a language that you can understand and they teach you this is how this works and here's a mutual fund that's been open a 100red years. Here's a mutual fund that's been open 90 years. It's had four down years in the last 27 years.

Yeah. >> And you can look at the chart and go, "Oh, look at that. The stinking thing made money 24 out of 27 years." Okay. I

that gives me a comfort level. That's an actual fund, by the way. >> Okay. So, >> you can look at these things and get a handle on that and then you go, "Oh, okay. Okay. Well, then maybe it's not as scary. Ooh, the markets and everybody lost all their money. No, they didn't.

They lose some cuz they buy high and sell low cuz they freak out and don't watch what's going on. So, that's the difference. So, you're going to do really, really good. You're going to end up wealthy and you deserve to be. You've worked hard. You've been a warrior single mom. Very good. >> A warrior princess cleaning houses to

raise those kids. And now you're going to retire with dignity. I'm so proud of you.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseyssolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Greg is in Nashville. Hey, Greg. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I have some whole life policies

that me and my wife got like when we

were like 20. I'm 50. I'll be 55 this

year. >> I'm sorry. >> And I I know. I know. I've heard I've been listening to you for the last year or so, but my question is on it. Should

we cash surrender those? Uh there's each

about 100,000 cash surrender. I don't

think we have to pay out anymore. I think they've we've had them since we were so young that uh I think they pay

for themselves each year now.

>> Yeah. And uh I don't know if it's worth I don't necessarily need uh I mean I could always use extra money but um I don't know if it's worth doing the cash to render on those policies or just leave them. They're small. I think they're $150,000 policies or something like that when we got them originally.

>> Okay. So you have $150,000 policy with $100,000 cash value.

>> Is that right? >> Yes. >> And you and you have two grows like they sold you on that stuff when you're young. >> No. I'm I'm going to make sure I understand what you've got. Stop a second. >> Do you have two $150,000 policies and

each of them have a $100,000 cash value in them?

>> Yes. If we were to surrender them now, >> that's what I'm asking. Okay, good.

Okay. And so if you die, you know they

keep the $100,000, right? So you have $50,000 worth of insurance in essence.

Do you follow me?

>> Yeah. that I kind of heard that the other day on one of your shows and I that I didn't understand.

>> I don't understand it either because it's the biggest screw drop of the middle class in my life I've ever seen, but it happens all the time. So that's how a whole life policy works. >> I do have a $2 million term policy that we got a few years ago.

>> Okay. So you're covered if you die, right? You don't need them.

>> Yeah. >> No. And and my question is even about the term too is like do I need to keep

that up if my value or like my personal

value or me my wife's value is over that

amount should I like do I need that life insurance or is it just >> keeping even after what life insurance is for is to take care of her if

something happens to you. If you have $5 million in mutual funds, you don't need life insurance. She's taken care of.

>> Okay? >> Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> What how life insurance for is to take care of you. If something happens to her

and if you have a big pile of money and you're okay without her income, then she

doesn't need you're self-insured on all of it. Okay.

>> Then back to the whole life. the whole life is paying an average of about 2% in growth on that 100,000.

Had that 100,000 been in mutual funds last year, it would have made 24%.

Uh on average, it would have made more like 12%. So, you're losing somewhere around 10 to $20,000 a year in growth

because that's so poorly invested. Oh, and by the way, when you die, they're gonna pay $150,000 out.

>> Okay. >> Not a hundred. Not Not plus $100,000.

>> Do I have to pay if we do the cash surrender, do we have to pay tax on that? >> Your tax basis in a whole life policy is what you have paid into it over all these years. I suspect you've paid $100,000 into this over all these years.

>> I would assume that.

>> So, your basis is probably higher. It almost always is. Uh if it's not, it

won't be by much. So you if you have taxes, it'll be very very very small.

But you're if you just say here's what my premiums were over this number of years and number of months or whatever it is that you know the 25 or 30 years you've been getting ripped off, then easily you probably paid in 100k. You're going to get your money back out. And yes, I would cash it in. And if what did you what do you think your net worth is?

M I mean I think it's close to six maybe

if I were to sell everything. Yeah, if I were to sell everything. >> So do you think that the current asset base would generate enough income for your wife to be okay if you died today?

>> Man, I think so. I hope so. I hope so. I think so. >> Yeah, I think I think pretty easily. I mean, that was kind of one of my other questions is I got this I got some industrial property that I don't necessarily need anymore that I have that I still owe about

I mean, if I were to sell it, I could cash that out for about 2 million bucks

maybe. >> Yeah. >> Uh after taxes, but I do make income on

that. >> It's up to you. What do you want your money invested in? That's an investment.

And then you look at it and say, "Is this an investment that's giving me enough yield on my money?" I mean, long-term investments you ought to be making 10 plus percent on whatever it is, real estate, mutual funds, whatever.

There's not really anything else that you should that that's fairly low risk portfolio that'll do that. Mine make a lot more than that and I don't take a lot of risk. So, but you got to look at that piece of industrial property. Is it making you a good return?

And then dump that. But um folks, the

whole life cash value policy is the

biggest ripoff in the financial planning world. Um uh I mean it's like it's like the payday lender to the middle class. You know, payday lender screws poor people, right?

And these people screw you. And um it's

a horrible rate of return. When you die, they keep your money because you've been paying extra for this savings account that you don't get. They only pay the face value when you die. It's that simple. And so get some inexpensive term

insurance while you need insurance. This

guy doesn't even need that anymore probably. Um and

put your money, your investment money in good investments that go up and they don't keep it when you die. And and then you're not building a building in the skyline for somebody else. Where you think those life insurance buildings came from? They didn't come from Santa Claus.

I know that. the same same place those banks came from. They didn't come from Santa Claus. It came from them screwing you with credit cards all these years.

And you're just smiling and going, "I got airline miles." And you're just getting screwed over and over and over again. And it's just, you know, that's how this stuff happens. It's called a transfer of wealth from you to them because they're screwing you.

Changes everything. James is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, James. How are you?

doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. Um, I have a my youngest sister.

She and her ex-boyfriend

inherited a4 million dollars about three

to four years ago. Um, he has since

passed from cancer.

and he um at the time I was going through a messy divorce. And he gave me

$6,000 to pay for my lawyer so I can take care of my divorce. I was going through a rough time um as a gift.

And since then, you know, he's passed on

like I said, and she has blown through

all that money um in the meantime and and is back to square one again. >> Wow. And yeah, and she has not come out

and said directly to me, but I heard it through my um other sister and she keeps

asking, you know, saying, "Hey, he needs to pay me back that $6,000. You know, that's that was my money." And >> so she's saying that he the boyfriend got the money from her and lent it to you. >> No, no, no. It was his his parents. It

was his inheritance from his parents.

>> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. and and I can afford to pay it back now. I'm I'm in a good spot um in my life and I can afford to to to pay it back. I just don't feel like I have to.

I've helped her out with bills and stuff now that she's going to have a lot of money like, you know, the occasional electric bill, things like that where she's, you know, called me up and said, "Hey, can you know I've I've done stuff like that before." >> Y'all are a hot mess, aren't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right. >> Are you Are you afraid that she's going to do You're just afraid. You're like, "Why do I give her another $6,000 to be irresponsible with is what you're saying?" >> That and you know, she has three kids with them. They're older. They're um 17,

18 in that range. But uh >> Well, I mean, there James, there's two options. Okay. The third option is not keep whining about it. Okay. I would either call her and say, "Your boyfriend gave me this money. It's a gift. I'm not going to pay it back." >> Or I'd write her a check.

But third option, I'm going to keep whining about this and y'all keep this family drama going on on and who said what and who told George this and good lord for $6,000.

>> Straighten it up, man.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseyssolutions.com/agent.

That's rammissysolutions.com/

debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey

Solutions. Chevy and Caitlyn are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y'all live? >> Cordon, Indiana. >> Okay, cool. And what's that near?

>> Louisville, Kentucky. >> Okay. All right, that works. Works for me. Perfect. How much debt have y'all paid off? >> We've paid off 95,000 in 34 months.

>> Good for you. Way to go. And your range of income during that 3 years?

>> Started at 113,000 and ended about 156.

>> Good for you. What do you all do for a living? >> I'm a assistant nurse manager in a NICU in Louisville, Kentucky. >> Fine. Good for you. >> I'm an executive director of a maintenance facility at a trucking company. >> There you go. Good. Good. Good. What kind of debt was the 95,000? our mortgage. >> YOU PAID OFF YOUR HOUSE. I >> did. >> Look at it, people. I love it. Way to

go, you guys. What's the house worth?

>> Uh, just under 500,000. Nice.

>> Very cool. Very cool. And you all been investing in retirement, I assume?

>> Yes. >> How much are your nest eggs?

>> Uh, we're up to 130 uh between the three like 130 per

account for three accounts. That's awesome. >> Awesome. >> Okay. So, you're getting close to a million dollar net worth. >> Yeah. Net worth. Figured it up on the drive down just a hair over 900,000 >> now. Almost. I blink and you're going to be millionaires. How old are you two?

>> 34 >> and 36.

>> WAY TO GO. I'M SO PROUD OF Y'ALL. BOOM.

BOOM. BOOM. >> Baby steps. Millionaires almost in a paid for house and not even 35 years old.

Way to go. >> Excellent. >> Excellent. Excellent.

Excellent. Okay, so what started this whole journey doing this crazy Ramsay stuff that made you millionaires? Uh, so Chevy did actually um right around the time that we got engaged, he came home and said, "I think I want to do this program." And I kind of looked at him like he had six heads. I was like, "I I don't know what you're talking about right now." Uh, so we used it as a premarital counseling kind of thing.

got married, we combined our debt. Um, so we actually entered Baby Step 7 for the first time in 2020, right around the time that CO was shutting everything down. >> Uhhuh. Um, after that we started a family and decided to upgrade our house.

So, we was able to take 100% of that house we had paid off and kind of move forward to the current house we have now. So, we only had $95,000 in the

mortgage when we bought our house in December of 22. >> Okay. So, a huge down payment from the other one. >> Yes. >> And then had to knock that out quickly.

>> Right. Yeah. That's good for you. Way to

go, y'all. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> How does it feel to be this free at this age? >> Uh, pretty great.

It's awesome. You know, the grass definitely feels different underneath your feet when you step outside after the last house payment. >> Absolutely. Will you ever do it again?

Go back in debt. >> No, >> not not worth it. Next time we'll save up to move up. >> Yeah, we're pretty happy with our house right now. >> I love it. >> I got to believe that it it played a big part in what house you selected to kind of knowing the feeling of dead and not wanting to experience too much of that.

>> Yeah, definitely did.

>> And it really worked out. I mean, uh, when we hit baby step seven, uh, in 2020

when we paid off our house, it was shortly after that we lost our child, our first, uh, born at 18 months.

>> Oh, >> 18 weeks. We lost a little girl, um, Ellison, at 18 weeks. And because we were in baby step seven, I was able to really step back from work and take some time off to get myself right before we moved forward in our lives. And that's kind of when we decided like, we're going to do things a little different from here on out.

We're so incredibly thankful we started FP when we did, or else I really don't know what we would have ended up in that situation. I wouldn't have been able to take that time off of work and really heal ourselves before moving forward. You just never really know what life's going to throw at you. And I think FBU really sets you up to be able to handle anything like that.

>> Wow.

>> Such a heartbreak. And to have the >> have built a life that allowed you the luxury to step back and have a moment to heal from the most devastating possible thing that can happen. Wow. Amazing.

Wow. Very cool. And you got kiddos, too?

>> We do. We have three. Um, two boys and a little girl. They're four, two, and 8 months. How >> beautiful. >> Oh, handful. Okay. Definitely.

>> We were hoping to get through this uh the 95,000 a little quicker, but you know, having three kids born in that timeline, it was slowed us down a little bit.

>> Just a little. Just a little.

But it it was awesome, you know, being able to cash flow, saving up for each child, you know, on top of paying, you know, the mortgage down, too.

>> So, you guys have been through this in in a sense a couple of times.

>> Yeah. >> Um, and so, what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt and be almost millionaires by the time you're 35? >> Uh, definitely communication. We still have budget meetings at the first of every month. We kind of walk through what we want to do that month, if there's any big adjustments coming up.

Um, but there's definitely months that I've struggled staying on task a little more and months he's struggled staying on task a little more. So, communication and definitely just lifting each other up when the other person's struggling.

>> Mhm. >> What are you going to do to celebrate?

>> Uh, we got a few little projects around the house we want to do and then definitely travel some more. We definitely like getting the kids out and showing them all the different things the world has to offer. >> Yeah. We just got back from New York City last weekend. We got caught in the blizzard up there. >> Oh gosh. >> That was a blast. Yeah. >> Yeah. It was crazy, >> man. Get caught up there with babies.

That'd be great.

>> Mommy, daddy trip that time. That's good. First trip out of the house without all three of them and got stuck in a blizzard. >> Still takes the edge off of it, but Oh my gosh.

Wow. Wow. Wow. Well, good for you guys.

Congratulations. We're very, very proud of you. Do you have people encouraging you along the way or thought you were crazy? >> Uh, a little bit of both.

Yeah, they our families are definitely encouraged us along the way. Kind of side eyeing us the whole time like, uh, you guys are still a little crazy, but we're going to support you in what you're going to do. So, we definitely couldn't have done it without our family support. >> They were definitely after us cuz I was selling everything I could find in the house left and right on eBay and Facebook.

>> A little bit of both. >> Yeah. It got to the point they were afraid to gift us something if we didn't actually want it or need it because it would probably be up on eBay or Facebook. >> Wow.

I would have given you something for Christmas, but you'd have sold it. >> Yeah, pretty much. We we actually heard that several times.

>> That's funny. >> That's funny. Well, way to go y'all. Did you bring the kiddos with you? >> Yeah, they're here. >> All right, let's bring them up and introduce them for the debtree scream.

Oh, man. >> I thought I heard them in the background. >> Oh, man. >> This is Nash. >> This is a reason to change your family tree right here. >> This is Finn and this is Townson.

>> All right. Well, you guys have got mom and dads that are heroes. They've taken care of you. They set you up for a incredible life. Yeah, you guys are in in great great shape. Well, so proud of you guys. Congratulations.

>> Chevy and Caitlyn from Indiana. 95,000

paid off in 34 months, making 113 TO

156. HOUSE AND EVERYTHING. WE'RE LOOKING AT WEIRD PEOPLE. COUNT IT DOWN. LET'S HEAR A DEBTREE SCREAM.

>> READY, BOYS? 3 2 1.

>> We're debtree.

Ah, I like it.

>> That's great. >> I love it. I love it. I love it.

>> And then I read the articles of the U

millennials and the Gen Z's that can't get ahead and can't afford a house, but these guys figured out on $156,000

income to not only have a paid for home, have three children. Yeah.

>> And have a net worth approaching a million dollars very quickly, not even 35 years old. So, um I don't know. It

just it confuses me that it can't be done and yet it's done every day here.

>> Sounds like a combination of will and

location. Will, location, and income.

>> Yeah. And and those are all tied together, by the way. You can choose your location and >> you can choose your will and you can choose to affect your income in a lot of ways. That's right. So, >> yeah. But um we talked to people that

make twice that and think they can't afford a house. >> That's absolutely true. >> That that housing prices are just out of reach for American couples today. You can't house affordability issues. We have affordability issues. I wish the president would wave a wand and make it all go away. I wish mommy and daddy would make me not make me be an adult.

But yeah, the math still is there. And these people just did it. >> Well, earlier we talked to the folks that made 150,000 a year and they were saving up. They were almost there to buy it in cash. $400,000 house.

>> Yeah, they were in Arkansas. Yeah, I remember. Yeah, >> they were uh >> Yeah, they were I don't know what they how they were doing that.

>> That was even beyond wow.

>> They were living on crazy.

>> But uh it absolutely works. So Chevy and Caitlyn have uh become heroes for Finn,

Nash, and Townsen. They those little babies, they're beautiful. Their lives have been changed and they don't even know it yet. >> Pretty crazy. And they go through a tragedy. >> Yeah. to to put to to boot in the middle of the thing. So, just absolutely amazing. Yeah. It's never a straight line, but there's a line.

>> There's a line.

>> Way to go, you guys.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

Our

scripture of the day, Naam 17. The Lord is good, a refuge in times of trouble.

He cares for those who trust in him.

Simon Synynic said, "It is a luxury to put our interests first. It is an honor to put the interests of others before our own." Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what to do late do next.

Uh we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a little below 400,000 last month, which is typical for this time of year. Mortgage rates are sitting at about 5.44 in January, down uh from 6.27

last January, giving buyers some breathing room. We're starting to see some movement in the market. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on the podcast or YouTube. Joshua is in Los Angeles. Hey Joshua, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm doing good. I'm doing good. Um it has been uh let me say about

two or three years since I've been trying to get on the radio and I am truly glad that it is you and Jade. Um,

obviously everybody else on the show is amazing, but I I needed some tough love from Dave today.

Um, so I've made some mistakes um, financially.

I've Let's see. At the beginning of 2025, I purchased a uh, Toyota Corolla.

I purchased it out. I went to a credit union um, and the total amount was about 30,000. And then at the end of la of

this previous year, I got a truck.

Um I know not smart. Um so I'm in a hole

that I am uh regretting digging and so

I've been trying to uh dig myself out but I keep on running into roadblocks.

>> Oh, you keep jumping from hole to hole as part of it, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, what do you owe on the truck?

>> So, I owe on the truck 46.

>> Oh, boy.

>> Um, and then I

Let's see. I have a personal loan for uh

8,000. And then I have um probably about

a couple thousand credit cards. And then

I want to pursue higher education. And that's going to cost about 40,000 >> at um Grand Canyon University for

pursuing um

what is it called? My LPC license.

>> Yeah, that's off the table. You get this mess cleaned up. You got a $40,000

problem. I don't need to create another one. >> Exactly. Yeah, I know. And >> Okay. So, what do you make? >> I call uh So, I make currently about 56

a year. >> Okay. Um, I've been very work I've been

working very diligently to find more

income. Um, and so I have an opportunity to work for a previous employer and make about an

extra like 12 to 15 uh extra a year.

>> Good. Um, and so I'm thinking like I'm

thinking that that would solve

this issue of the >> Well, that get rid of the truck. What's the truck worth?

>> The truck is worth 42.

>> Well, that's not too >> Okay. So, you need four You need $4,000 and you can sell the truck, right?

>> Right. >> Well, let's get rid of that thing.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, >> how quickly could you save up the difference?

um >> 4,000 bucks. >> I would I'd probably say like

realistically um if I just make the minimum payments on my credit cards, it'd probably be like maybe like 3 months.

>> No, I want you going hard in the paint working every hour you get to do this.

>> Take the new job, get the income up, and you need to get rid of this truck in a month or so. >> Where do you live? What's your living situation?

I currently live with my parents.

>> Okay. You live So you don't even have rent to pay? >> No, I don't. >> Then this should go in. So what if you if all this all you have is minimum payments? You have no rent.

>> Yeah. >> If you make your $4,000 from your current job and you go out and side hustle and kill it, that'd be my goal.

>> What are you spending money on? >> Yeah.

>> Car, gas, insurance, and credit card minimums. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So >> yeah. So yesterday, let's get rid of this truck. >> Right. >> The thing is, you got to decide. You got to decide if this truck is really as stupid as we have.

>> And once you decide that, cuz I'm I'm really, if I'm in your shoes, I'm really pissed about this truck, >> cuz it's standing between you and a good future. >> And so that means you got to that means you got to bust it and get rid of the stupid thing as fast as possible. It's a curse. It's not a blessing.

>> Okay. And um do you have any

recommendations on how to like obviously like private sale? Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Um and then on top of that, I've tried

Oh, no, never mind. That's a credit union. But I tried purchasing it purchasing it outright. Um but that didn't um work.

>> What do you mean?

>> Um meaning I was I went from I was going to go from a lease to a purchase, but

>> um >> Oh, it's a lease.

So, >> what's the payoff amount?

>> 42 is >> 462. Yeah, >> 46 is worth 42. >> 46. Yeah. >> So, you're saying that you can't buy it out and then turn around and sell the car?

>> Yeah, you can. Okay. And so you what you

have to do is find someone, a dealer or a person that will write you a check for 42. You have to add four to that check

and buy out the lease. They hand you the title, you hand the buyer the title, and that's how the process goes down. You may need some help with that with a friend that's around car dealers, but um you know, with how to actually mechanically do the transaction in Los Angeles, California, but that's how the method works. You have to have all the money to pay off the lease to get the title and then they hand you the title and you hand the title.

Meantime, the car own the new buyer is driving it off a bill of sale and that's how all transactions work. But uh there's a few little nuances to how they'll go down in in different states and how the process works. And I'm not positive about California, but that's a concept that you're working off of. Joshua, the big deal is you've got to decide this thing has to go.

>> Yes. >> Suzanne is in Albany, Georgia.

>> Hi. I'm so glad I got through to y'all.

>> I'm glad you did, too. >> How are y'all doing today? >> Better than we deserve. >> My husband I um Well, we have a question. My husband and I are both retired school teachers. Um, we bring in about net about $9,500 a month between

our pension, social security, and we both have part-time jobs. >> Great. >> Our house is paid for. Um, it's worth about two $425,000.

>> Great. >> Um, we have about 300,000 in 401ks and

$15,000 in our Roth. Now, this is the

question. Um, we have a car that we still owe

$10,000 on. And we also have a lot that

we bought um about three years ago for us to build our retirement home on, which we want to pay cash for because we want to sell the current house we're in.

>> All right. >> When we build this house and um we owe it's about $60,000 on that lot we have.

And so we have that that's our only debt. It's 60,000 on the lot. We're paying 7.25% interest. And then the um

car, which is about three and a quarter percent interest. >> When are you gonna build the When are you gonna build the retirement home?

>> Um we want to start maybe um this fall.

>> Okay. The the lot the lot debt will roll up into the construction loan because the construction loan won't take a second mortgage position. They're going to want a first mortgage position. So your construction loan is going to be plus the lot debt.

>> Yes. So that that that's going away and going to roll up into your new mortgage.

Okay. Well, our question was, so in

other words, I see what you're saying, but this is what we were wondering.

Should we um take out the the we you

know, we can take out I want to leave at least five in that Roth, but could we take out 10,000 in the Roth? We wouldn't pay any penalties, pay off the um car with that. And then my husband was thinking about taking the $60,000 out of

his 401 would have to pay 25% tax. You

can pay it off so fast with just your income. >> You make $9,000 a month. Pay off the stinking car. >> That was the question. That was my third. >> Yeah. Pay off the car and then roll the roll the other thing up into the mort up into the thing and then when your house sells, it pays off the >> retirement house, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you'll be debtree with never having touched never having touched your retirement. >> And that's exactly what I would do.

>> Yeah. Just be careful not to overspend on the retirement house. >> House. Yeah. Keep that down under the value of yours. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 156. Stop Living Paycheck to Paycheck—Start Living With Options | April 22, 2026


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>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

John Delony joined by Jade Warshaw and we are taking your calls live 888-825-5225.

Let's go out to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania and talk to Lauren. Hey Lauren, what's up?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> thanks for calling in. What's going on?

>> So, I'm uh looking for some help prioritizing a few big financial moves all at the same time.

Um just to kind of condense it, my husband and I have about 35,000 in credit card debt, um a mortgage with about 193,000 remaining on our townhouse, and I have about $28,000 in

single stocks, and a baby due in

October. >> Congratulations.

>> Thank you. So, we've outgrown our current townhouse and hoping to sell um

and buy something potentially next spring, but I just started listening to the podcast and I know the baby steps say to stop investing and pay off debt before saving for a house, but in our

case the timeline kind of overlaps because of the baby. So, my question is would you recommend we sell the stocks and then use all of it to pay off the debt first, even if that delays our ability to move, or do we split that money between paying down the debt and keeping cash for the home transition so we can still move on the timeline of like next spring?

>> Well, I wouldn't change it because I don't think that anything's actually on fire here. I think you're just really excited, which is not a it's not a bad thing. Do you know what I'm saying? >> your first kid? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yeah, it's our third one, but >> Oh, third one? It's your third one. So, it's getting cramped. That's where you're feeling it. It's getting cramped in the townhouse. >> Yeah, three under three.

>> Oh, boy. Okay, so I can understand that.

I empathize with you. I don't have three. I have two, and that was wild enough for my life. So, um I love the

idea that that you know, hey, yeah, we got to sell off the stocks. I love that.

That's going to clear out um the majority of your debt, and probably between now and when the baby comes, you'll be able to save up the rest of the money to clear out that debt, which by the way, tell me again, when's the baby due?

>> Um October 9th, so early October.

>> Okay. So, October. So, what I'd be doing is I'd be spending from now until October saving up as much cash as I possibly can, you and your husband. That way, uh when the baby comes, we cash out the stocks, we have hopefully another uh six

or seven thousand dollars, we can pay off the credit card here, and then

everything's all good, and we can start building up towards having our three to six months and everything like that.

And to answer your question, you do need to save three to six months before you buy that house. >> Yeah. So, so why Okay, so you you've been on this road before. I remember all of the panic in Well, most of it was in my chest, but in my home when we were bringing home our first kid.

And I remember just looking at this tiny little lump of a human that couldn't move and was swaddled and was laying there and was just so loud.

What is it about six months after October that you couldn't manage with just bringing home another 10-lb glob, right? You get

what I'm saying? I I know I said that very nice, but

>> We know, we It's a It's a two-bedroom townhouse, so with two kids already,

a boy and a girl, this is an another girl. I mean, they could share rooms. We could make it work, but it's it's just getting a little tight, you >> Yeah, for sure. I get that. I get that.

>> And here's the thing, it is going to be tight. I John and I aren't going to sit here and tell you that it's not going to be uncomfortable. But my question to you would be, how quickly can we get out of this the discomfort and do it in a in a way that's really financially responsible. So, what's you guys' income?

>> Um right now it's I'm the primary breadwinner since my husband just started a business, so I'm $110,000 a

year. >> Now, what's going to happen when the baby comes? Have you talked about that yet?

Do you have You've got maternity leave or what?

>> Yep, I'm a teacher, so there's no maternity leave, but I will have 8 weeks for my C-section and I'll be right back in there. >> Ooh, that's cutting it close on a C-section.

That's cutting it close. I'm just saying, I'll never sing that song again, but um this this this backs up what I'm saying even more because the truth is I've had two, and the truth is you don't know

you don't know how you're going to feel. That's the truth. >> Right. >> And um that backs up what John and I are saying even more to say, "Okay, let's cool out.

Let's let's stack up money because if you need to take a couple extra weeks, if you're not feeling quite right, if standing on your feet for however many plus hours a day as a teacher, I mean, I'm just saying, please wait because that's going to give you the freedom of if you want to take a little bit more time, you can. Um so yeah, I would do that.

what we talked about before, which is how long can it take us uh to stack up the 3 to 6 months so that we can then start um purchasing the the new house. With $110,000, what do you see your husband's income doing between now and then?

>> It kind of fluctuates right now. Um like I said, he just started a business, so we're hoping he got it up and running in November. So, we're hoping that that starts turning a profit.

Um but it's a used car car dealership, so it's just like inventory and things like that. Um So, hopefully that will change.

>> What his business plan say? Like what's his business plan say? What should he be making by, I don't know, say January?

>> Yeah, he's he's hoping to have um about

6 to 10,000 dollars a month.

>> Okay. >> How How realistic is this hope? Cuz I I

I hope I get a million dollars on the way home, but but probably not, right?

How realistic is this hope? >> getting He's getting close for for starting in November, he's getting close to breaking even now. Um so, as long as inventory

can stay consistent, then it it is very

reasonable. He's making about three to four right now a month, so.

>> Well, there's nothing going on globally that could possibly interrupt anything, so that's cool. >> Of course. >> Jeez, Louise. >> Man, you guys have a lot of variables here, and and there's a lot of And I'm not saying this cuz I don't want you to worry.

I just want you to be smart.

>> Probably about 70,000 dollars.

>> And will you need more than that to to

put the the correct down payment on said future home?

>> Probably a little. I mean, for like a 400,000 dollar house, you know, we're thinking something like three, four bedrooms. Um you know, I realistically like 20% right, about 80 grand.

Um so, we could save that up, I would think, but you know, 70k, but that's contingent upon selling our townhouse, of course, right now, so. >> Okay. Now, I do want to challenge you on this just just to the 20% rule isn't

what it once was. You know, yeah, you do 20% you can avoid PMI, but it doesn't necessarily move that payment down to 25% of your take home pay. So, make sure you jump on to a mortgage calculator at Ramsey Solutions and just run out those numbers cuz at this point you're putting down usually more than 20% in order to avoid PMI and to get that payment where you want because the rule of thumb is and this is for anybody listening, you want no more than 25% of your take home pay

tied up in your mortgage and your mortgage includes everything, taxes, insurance, HOA fees, right? And so, just just lock

that in, Lauren. All you just got to take take your time, please. Wait until the baby's born. Save up a bunch of money. Once the baby's born, you pay off the debt. Once you pay off the debt, you stack up 3 to 6 months of expenses and then and only then can you sell the house knowing that you also have money on top of that 70,000 to follow the 25% rule.

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

>> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me in for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, >> You're going to have a crisis here, and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. Those are the two options. >> term life insurance can replace income, but have dads cover funeral expenses so your family can actually

have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

>> All right, let's go to Kansas City, Missouri and talk to Melissa. Hey, Melissa, what's going on?

>> Hi, how are you all? >> Doing great. How are you?

>> I am doing good.

>> What's going on? >> Sorry, I'm a little nervous, so bear with me. >> Oh, you're good. >> Um, okay, so my husband and I have been married for almost 20 years, and we recently combined finances.

>> What what What led to that? What led to that combination?

>> Um, you know, we just never combined them.

We got married very young.

>> Mhm. >> We just never combined them, and after

we had my son about 11 years ago, I started asking, "Hey, can we combine them?" cuz it was just a struggle to see who was paying for what.

And about 18 months ago,

um, after he got out of the military and we settled in a house, he he said he agreed.

Um, and it's just it hasn't been what I thought it would be and it's very frustrating. Um I've

created budgets but he won't stick to a

budget. He won't help me create a budget. And I just feel like his spending is out of control and it

it stresses me out so much.

>> So >> So I >> The problem isn't your combined income.

The prob- problem is you have a husband that won't do life with you.

Right? Like the the the a flashing alarm signal is the overdrawn accounts. The real issue here is you've sat down with your husband and said, "Hey, can we do life together after being married for two decades?" And he has said through his actions, "No, thank you. I'm going to keep doing what I want to do." >> Yeah.

>> And so what's what's the what's the state of y'all's household finances?

>> W- I recently got a huge promotion. I doubled my pay almost. Um so I am

I am now earning more than he is >> How much? >> VA benefits. Um I'm earning over 90,000.

Um and our household income we make about 12,000 net in our account and it just every time I try to put some money away, I just feel like it flies out somewhere.

Um and he gets new hobbies all the time.

He has a dirt bike and a four-wheeler and I just don't know what to do to make him

understand that I'm just I want the best for our family so I don't want to be strapped down with debt.

>> The on- the only conversation I've seen be effective is the conversation beneath the money issues. And so if you if you have

harassed him for and and I'm being provocative on purpose, okay? If you've harassed him for 11 years, "We need to combine money. We need to combine money. We need to combine money." And he gets home from deployment, he gets out of the military, and says, "Fine." Um that was never the issue. The issue is you saying, "I don't feel safe when we owe people money. I'm scared about our financial future.

Will you help me feel less um unsafe?"

Right? Because that's really what's happening underneath all of this.

>> Mhm. >> And every time a uh a four-wheeler shows

up at the house, um your body goes, "Uh-oh.

What about college? What about our bills? What about What about What about?" Right?

>> Mhm. >> If you haven't had that conversation, that's the only one I've seen be successful.

>> I I feel like I have had that conversation. I try to put it on like, "This scares me. This is what I worry about." I just >> What does he say back? >> He'll say, "Okay, well, we'll we'll we'll sit down sometime and we'll go over it." And then when I get to that, "Hey, can Why don't we do it now?" or "Okay, can we schedule a time?" It it

There's always something being It just continues to be pushed back. We set a deadline. We were going to start in July of last year, and nothing happened. And then I asked him again at the new year.

I was like, "I really would love us to put a budget together cuz you didn't like the budget I put together myself." And he just he doesn't He thinks because we can make the minimum payment and we can still, you know, go out to eat, and

he thinks that it's fine, and I'm just like, "If we can buckle down for a little bit and get out of debt, we could live so much better. We could give more opportunities to our son." And I it just >> Yeah. >> I just can't get that from him.

>> I'm going to give you a framework, okay?

This is a like a last-ditch framework.

All right? You ready for this?

I want you to tell him that you need to have a big conversation with him. And he'll he might roll his eyes. He might be like, "Oh, here we go again." And but I want you to hold firm, okay?

And when you have this conversation, I want you to tell him this in this order.

This story I'm choosing to make up is or the story I'm making up is

you don't care that I can't breathe in our house.

The story I'm making up is you don't care about our financial future and that we're not safe.

The story I'm making up is debt doesn't bother you at all and it does bother me and you don't care.

And based on those stories that I'm making up, I feel scared, I feel alone in this marriage, whatever your feelings are.

And then give him an opportunity to respond.

And if you if you sit down and say, "You're not doing this and you're not doing that," then and you lead with you words, he's going to wall up and defend himself. We all do that.

But if you say, "Hey, I'm making up stuff about you. Am I right?" Then that's an invitation.

And if he walks away from that table, then you're going to have to I mean, and Jaden, correct me if I'm wrong here, you're going to have to begin taking ownership of your future, right? Because he doesn't seem to have interest in that.

>> Yeah. >> Right? That's that to me is the last-ditch framework that I that's how I teach people to handle conflict in their marriage. Just own the story I made up, own the feelings you have about it, and own what you're going to do next. And if it makes sense, give them an opportunity to respond.

>> Okay. >> Okay. I want to play devil's advocate on this for a minute because when he was deployed, what type of work does he what type of work did he do in the military?

>> You know, he actually never deployed. He only had some TDYs, but um

luckily, we never had to go through a deployment.

Um he was in for 17 years and got out

uh 2 and 1/2 years, 3 years ago.

>> And what type of work did he do?

>> Um, he worked on the jets.

On different jets. >> I I can tell you what I'm thinking and I

I think that this is all in the context also of what John is saying um and and counseling whatever that that looks like for you guys cuz I do think that you need counseling with a third party. Um, there's part of this where

as you're waiting for him to man up cuz

I think he needs to and I don't think you just need to sit there completely I can't move I can't do anything because I'm waiting on this guy to get his life together. >> got to take action. >> You've got to take action and I remember talking with a friend of mine who was dealing with not exactly the same but similar and what she would do is she found out the things that were most important to her husband and she was like, I'm going to make sure that that's on the I'm going to go ahead and create the budget.

I'm going to offer for him to see it. If he's not going to look at it, that's his choice but at least I've made it and I've said, here it is. I would love for you to look at this by X amount of dates because I'm going to move forward with what's on here. And what she would do is she would uh budget for the things that she knew he cared about.

So, maybe he loves going to the movies so she'd put a little bit on there for him to go to the movies. That way it's not anything that's going to make him walk in and be like, what are you doing? Da da da da da. So, that's what she did and she would say, hey, there's this amount of money left in margin.

I'm going to use that to pay off debt. And then when the time came, she'd pay off the debt and then she'd come back to him and say, hey, just like I said, I used that money and I paid off a $500 medical bill. So, she did her part.

She showed it to him. She made payments.

She let him know the things that she was paying off. And then over time, he started to see, wow, this this is really working. Now, caveat, they're not he's not on board yet.

They're She's going forward. She's going forward at a much slower pace because you go further faster together, right?

We all know that. But I don't want you to sit there on your hands simply because this guy is not manning up.

>> Yeah, it's That's a great way to say

become the person you want to be in your marriage. >> Yes. Start doing it.

>> Right. And if that if that ultimately means he's burning through savings and then yes, you may have to reset your money, but do it with a not a smile on your face, but don't do it out of anger.

Do it out of okay, cool. I've got to take care of our son. I have to take care of our house. I've got debts in my name and pull your credit report to make sure he hasn't put you on these jet skis and on these four-wheelers and all that kind of mess.

And >> Lead by example. >> That's exactly right. Be who you want to be in your marriage.

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Start EveryDollar for free today in the App Store or on Google Play. Let's go to Augusta and talk to Josh. What's up,

Josh?

>> Well, the cost of living among other among other things. >> You're exactly right. It's higher and higher and higher. How can we help, brother? >> Yes.

Yeah, so I've got kind of got a question looking for an outside opinion.

Um I'm trying to uh figure out a

a good way that's not going to cause any strife, excuse me, cause well, any major strife, uh to get my girlfriend on board with um

the baby steps and create a solid plan going forward.

>> I think you should um give her a budget a budget that you've already done and lecture her um and use a bunch of spreadsheets.

>> I think that's terrible advice.

>> Yeah, don't do that. Don't >> What is it? Does she have a bunch of debt and you're trying to convince her to pay her debt off? What what's the catalyst for this that you feel like you want to uh meddle in her finances?

>> Um so uh >> You see what I'm doing here, John? >> Why Yeah, why are you getting in her business, dude?

>> It's a reasonably good answer. Um

so for Christmas, my mother uh sent her

one of the uh one of your uh budget evaluation books. And she was really good about She religiously went right through it and did all the math and tried to figure out what she could do differently. Um and the conclusion that she came to

is that her expect her life expenses are too high, but she has no idea like even listening to um listening to the show, looking through um the baby steps, talking about it, she doesn't have a clear picture of how to get out of it. And there's a good reason. She's a single mother with a uh 5-year-old. >> Okay. And uh do you know how much debt she has?

>> Um a lot less than it was. She has about $4,000 in debt right now.

>> Which sounds like she's crushing. >> Yeah. Why isn't she calling in?

I'm still trying to get back to you. Like what's it to you? Are you thinking about proposing? Are you like tell me where you're caught up hung up in this.

>> Um so I am

um 26. I have I have I have like $2,000

in debt right now excluding my mortgage.

My house is almost paid off.

Um and the only reason that she's so far ahead was because she totaled her car a little while ago and the gap insurance paid off her car which she was upside down in. So, she got a lucky windfall, which is good.

Um but, since then, she hasn't made any forward progress at all.

Um >> Has she asked for your help, brother?

>> She has. >> Okay. >> Also, >> how did she ask for it?

>> Um well, first, she was in tears, not knowing what to do.

And I was doing my best to, you know, be

be patient and wait for her to be res- in a position to be receptive.

And then, I explained to her what I did and how it worked for me and why.

Um but, each time we talk about it, she always comes back to, "But, you make so much more money than I do." >> What do you make? >> is so much easier for you." Um I make about 120,000 a year. >> And what does she make? Do you know?

>> Uh about about 25.

>> Okay, yeah, that's going to be a problem. Um what kind of work does she do? >> She's a delivery driver for a car dealership, delivering parts and all that stuff. >> I can tell you what I think, and I don't know if you're going to like it.

But, this is something that is uh this is a litmus test in my mind.

If I were in your shoes, cuz I'm just telling you, in my shoes, it's bothering me that she didn't call in. Because if I want to see if somebody's a go-getter, and if I want to see if somebody is like about what they say they want to do, I want to see you making real efforts towards that. So, I would hope that she

would call in and say, "Here's where I'm at. Here's what I need help with. Here's what I'm trying to pay off." That would be my first If I were you, I'd That would be my question to her, which is, "I listen to the show. We're both on this thing. Why don't you just call in and ask? Or why don't you use Ask Ramsey and get and get the solution to the problem?" That'd be thing one. The next thing that I'd be checking for is I'd want to make sure that she's not an

And what I mean by that, I talk about this in the book. When you're an askhole, you're a person who asks questions over and over. You just ask and ask and ask and ask, but you never make any movement.

James Clear James Clear talks about that in Atomic Habits. You just get in get in get information, but you never actually, you know, put it into action. You don't You don't do anything. >> podcast, another cup of coffee. >> I'm worried that that's what she's doing. Because you've said, "Oh, I've talked to her. I've told her what to do." She's not doing it. So, that's something that you can either take that information and go, "This is a quality and I don't know how I feel about that quality in her." >> Yeah.

That's kind of the zone that I've been in um off and on for a little while.

>> Yeah. >> How long have you all been together?

>> Uh about 2 and 1/2 years.

>> Are you going to marry this person?

>> Um I'm never That's a hard question for me to answer because I have reservations about the state >> being involved in my relationship.

That's the only reason.

>> Oh, well, I just finished a 2-year study like a down the rabbit hole study on marriage and uh the data on formal legalized marriage versus cohabitation, it still wins out in a pretty significantly statistical way.

A statistically significant way. It still does. But, all I have to say is you do you, boo. Um I I I I I'm fond of saying behavior is a language.

And what her actions are telling me is she's not interested in

your advice. She's not interested in what you're bringing to the table when it comes to this stuff. And she's not interested in She read the book. She listens to the show.

She's not interested in going guns a blazing to get this stuff knocked out. And she has a very difficult living circumstance, no question about it. She doesn't make hardly any money. She's a single mom.

Like all She's got all the the variables against her. But again, this like the greatest thing I get to do in this in this job is listening to story after story after story of people in all sorts of situations rise up.

it But for you, it's you can't convince her.

You're living it. You've told her. She's asked and you've told her. Your mom has given her the book like At some point you have to open your hands up and let this conversation go and continue to live financially the way you want to live. >> Can I ask you this? Uh her 5-year-old, is he in kindergarten yet?

>> Uh she and yes.

>> She's in kindergarten. And And that I'm guessing this was the first year of kindergarten. I also I'm I'm just going to give her I'm going to throw her a life raft here and say it's possible that maybe before the the girl was in kindergarten, mom was used to working part-time and kind of juggling both things. So she probably wasn't making it, you know, really making what she could income wise. And this is the first

year that there's more freedom probably of schedule. And I'm wondering if And

you can ask her about this. Hey, now that, you know, baby girl is in in in in kindergarten all day, um maybe now is a great time to start looking at full-time jobs that you can work, you know, drop her at early care in the morning, work a full day, come back and pick, you know, little girl up from school. But we Now's a good time that you maybe could get your income up because, you know as well as I do, this is There's two parts to the equation. Expenses down or income up.

I think for you it's income up season. And you can drop that there and see what she does with it.

>> So I completely agree, um except she had

a huge um huge advantage as that um

her daughter's father his mother so her daughter's grandmother on her father's side owns a daycare. >> Oh, okay. >> part of their separation agreement was that he would pay for child care. >> Well, then there you go.

>> That was so that was never an issue. She would drop her off before work and then go work. >> Did she >> She's working 38 to 45 hours a week and

bringing home less than $500. Which today with regular living expenses is >> do it. >> Yeah, it's it's impossible. Yeah.

Um but again, I hate to say it this way, she has told you through her actions, this is not a problem that she wants your solutions for. And that can make you feel powerless and alone.

I get it.

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All right, let's go out to Kansas City, Kansas and talk to Grace. Hey Grace, what's going on?

>> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> You bet. Thanks for calling.

What's up? >> Yeah, um basically me and my husband we

um someone got in our bank account and we lost 8,000. And so we just have a few

questions of should we continue trying to pay off our house in 10 years, but we also need to buy a new car soon cuz this car is about to die. A baby's due in July and other appliances in the house are about to die and we need a new roof. >> Oh my gosh, that's a lot.

Everything's happening. All right, so let's let's back that thing up a little bit. Okay, so what happened in your bank account?

>> Someone got into it and took 8,000. So hopefully we'll maybe get it back, but we highly doubt that we'll get any back.

>> Why? Why is your bank not covering it as fraud?

>> Um I'm not really sure. They're disputing it, but we're just we don't know. So we won't know anything for 30 days. >> But how did somebody get in get in it?

>> My husband and might have given um someone who he thought was the bank his account.

So they What do you mean so it was a scam?

Mhm. But but I mean it if that happened, they should be they'll be on camera coming into the bank or there'll be a record of the transaction. Like everything is recorded.

>> and police reports and all of that.

We're just our we're counting it as a loss and maybe we'll get stuff back and maybe we won't, but we want to set a plan before.

>> Okay, I wouldn't I I count it as as a loss yet. Money just doesn't disappear out of your account.

>> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. >> Uh on untraceably, right? And the bank

has all kinds of fraud protection and ATM card protection. Like there's a lot of things here, right? So I wouldn't just count it as a wash yet.

Um you you named a one thing that's for sure happening, you're having a kid soon.

>> Yes. >> And then you named a bunch of other potential future things that may or may not come to pass in 2 months or in 5 years.

And so I want to clear the deck of what you can control right now versus the feeling that it's all coming down because something in the future may happen. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> Is this your first baby?

>> No, it's my second. You know, they're 15 months apart. >> Okay, so you got a lot going on in

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. What's your financial situation?

>> Um it's actually pretty good. We have about 55,000 in savings. >> Okay. >> Um we only have a mortgage debt. Um I'm a stay-at-home mom.

Um and that's about it.

>> What does your husband make?

>> Um maybe around 50 a year. He's active duty military, so pretty consistent.

>> you get $50,000 in cash savings?

>> Um I have always been a saver, and so

when we both got married, we kind of combined everything, and that's what it was, so. And we didn't go to college, so we don't have any debt, and we were smart not to have credit card debt. >> Genius. That's fantastic. Yeah.

Incredible. So you're actually in pretty amazing shape right now.

>> Okay. >> If if he feels the need to go get a $78,000 or get a $50,000 Jeep and then jack it up and do like that would be really unwise.

>> Yeah. >> You have $50,000 of cushion.

>> in cash. Yeah.

>> Yeah, it's great. But I mean >> But >> You you could you could cash flow your

out of pocket for this baby and fix your appliances and get a 10 or $15,000 car that would be

used and great and still have a fully funded emergency fund.

>> So, is that like the main thing we just want to have at least 6 months in our savings? >> Yeah, I mean with you being a stay-at-home mom, I'd want 6 months.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. Tell us about the new roof.

>> Um it's just old and it's

like we've had people look at it and we probably need to redo it in about a year. >> Is it leaking?

>> Not yet. >> Okay, how much does it cost in your area?

>> Um I have no idea. My husband knows all that. >> Okay. So, I don't think that's anything that's on fire at this moment. I think the things on fire are the baby.

>> Yeah.

>> Is is there anything else that's like must happen now?

>> Well, we had a plan of paying our house off in 10 years. So, we use all our tax return >> Uh-huh. >> to like put towards our mortgage and I wasn't sure if we should just put that into our savings for that 8,000 that we lost. >> What's the balance on the mortgage?

>> Um 159,760,

sorry, thousand. >> So, I'm going to try to order this in order of importance for you. And I'm going to order it in importance in a way of like here's something you can be thinking about this year and here's something you can be thinking about and don't think about until next year, right? Until a year from now.

So, I just want to make sure I have everything on the list. You've got the baby coming in July.

You have a new roof situation.

Uh did I hear there's a new car needed?

>> Mhm. >> And why is that? I just want to make sure that it's actually a necessity.

>> Um Yeah, so my husband bought like a trash

truck Facebook market find and it just keeps breaking down.

And he keeps working on it, but it's going to need rewiring soon and that's like too big of a job for him to do and then it costs way too much to have a mechanic do. >> How much? >> And so um not what it's worth for the car.

So, the car's probably worth 2,000 and it was over that. >> Okay. Okay, and then we've got the baby. Okay, so I'm with John. I think the number one thing on the list is we're going to not

do much until this baby comes. The only thing I would do until this baby comes is I would take 10 of the 55,000

and I would get a a car in cash. I would do that because this $2,000 car you don't need to put any more money into that. Um after that, once the baby comes

and you've got $45,000 saved, you can start thinking about, okay, what would it look like, you know, everybody's home, medical bills paid, everything's good. What would it look like to fix our roof?

And I'd start charting that out and I'd start getting different offers and estimates of what that would cost.

And then once you have the number, since we don't know the numbers today, what could it be? 20,000? Maybe it's 15,000.

Um then we can start saving for that and we can look at our emergency fund and say, is there enough money there to do that?

If there is, we can use that. If there's not enough money, how much more do we need to save in order to make that happen? But your emergency fund is there. That That's exactly what it's there for. So, that's there. And then after that, you can start thinking about, okay, with the extra money in our budget, can we put regularly extra payments, extra half payments, extra quarter payments on our mortgage?

And that's that. >> Cuz you're also assuming he's only going to be making 50,000 bucks 2 years, 3 years, 5 years from now.

>> Which, yeah, he should still be getting raises every year. >> Exactly. Okay, now, can I ask you a personal question? >> Yeah. >> Have you been involved in the conversations with the bank over the missing eight grand?

>> Uh sort of. My husband knows more of it.

He's just been taking care of it and it's like I got so stressed out I was throwing up too much and and it didn't agree with me or and so I just kind of like left it. >> Okay. I I don't want to put anything out into the world that doesn't need to be there. But it's not passing my smell test.

>> Yeah. >> That $8,000 just suddenly went away.

In in my world, that is somebody gambled it away, that is somebody bought something. >> Uh so, I was involved with like the police reports and like I uh they got

into our bank account transferring money out with they actually got his whole card, too. So, they like took his card.

So, we have it all on videotape.

>> Okay. >> And so, >> So, there should be fraud protection on the card and that should be >> We're hoping so. We just haven't heard anything and so we're like >> I would scratch and claw and fight like hell. You're a pregnant mom with a toddler. You got one coming. I would

man, I would make this my full-time job to be the biggest $8,000 thorn in the side of that bank until they they made things right with you. >> I thought I heard you say he gave the account information to somebody he thought was the bank. I thought that's what I heard. Did I hear that wrong?

>> took the somebody got his card and got the information somehow. >> Oh, okay. >> Um yeah, if he if he's handed out his banking information, uh that money that money's gone. >> yeah, cuz in my question was, well, what was he giving his banking information to for $8,000? That's right. Or if he would did he give it 50 bucks and then they took 8,000. Yeah, there's a lot of questions. But I would scratch and claw

and fight for that money back and hopefully they'll bank will do the right thing and take care of you guys.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm John Delony joined by Jade Warshaw taking your calls on money, work, and your life. Let's go out to Detroit Rock City and talk to Tammy.

What up, Tammy? How are we doing?

>> Hi, good. How are you guys? >> Doing outstanding. What's going on?

>> Good. I have a question. So, my husband and I started the Ramsey baby steps

about 3 years ago, but about 5 years before that we had already gotten into our home, so we had already signed for a 30-year mortgage.

So, we've completed steps. We have no debt except for our home the rest of what we have to pay off our mortgage, which is 160.

Um no other debt. We have our emergency fund saved up. Just trying to figure out how to prioritize paying it off. Um so,

we both work, but I'm considering cutting down my hours to almost nothing to possibly home school our children in the fall. So, that would take our income down by anywhere from like 3 to 4,000 a month, which would then So, before we were when we were through the baby steps like 1 through 3, we then were doubling our mortgage to kind of mimic a 15-year mortgage because we had already signed the 30-year. Um but now I don't feel like we're going to be able to do that with my cut in income. So, I don't know how we prioritize when we have extra margin.

Do we like prioritize our investing 15% or paying extra on the mortgage?

completely picking up and moving. And and like we could probably sell our home for about 600 to 630.

>> Okay. >> Um and we don't we kind of realized that we don't really need as much land as we have, so we could probably get in something comfortable with like a net zero of no mortgage.

>> Wow. >> With less land. >> Well, I think there's two problems.

I Yeah, I think there there might be two problems you're solving for and I'm not sure that one of them's is a problem. So, first off, yeah, if you tell me that you were paying your 30-year mortgage like a 15, and then you tell me, "And by the way, I'm not going to be working anymore, and it's going to cut our income in half, and now we're going to be at how much per month when you do this? 4,000 a month?" >> Well, no, so I bring home probably 3 to 4,000, but my husband brings home about 8 to 10.

>> Okay, so you'll be just to 8 to 10,000 a month. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I would not expect uh the margin to be the same because you're no longer bringing in an income. That being said, what you can look at it and say, "Okay, with the 8 to 10,000 a month, how much margin do we have to continue to do baby step four, which is investing 15% of your gross uh income into retirement?

that, after putting aside a little bit for kids' college, how much do we have to put on the mortgage?" And it's okay if it's a little bit less than it was before. It's okay if it's significantly less than it was before. You're going to keep chunking away at this, and that mortgage is going to go away.

>> Yeah. It's just a pointing on we went from possibly paying off in 5 to 7 years

to now looking to go to like now we can't pay it off for like 22 years.

>> Oh, I don't I don't think it's going to be 22 years.

Have you put it in a calculator?

>> Well, I mean, like if we got our 30-year mortgage 8 years ago.

>> But you've been paying on it like it was a 15. You paid it way down.

>> need to You need to put it in as it is now and see how long it would take with ever with whatever margin you have. And then if you look at that number and go, "We're not satisfied with that," then you have to ask yourself, "Okay, what's the solution? Um maybe while I homeschool, I do a little bit of part-time work. Maybe that's the solution." Um but I think you guys can solution for that.

Let's talk about John, the second problem that may not be a problem, which is we have a lot of land, maybe too much land, maybe we should move.

>> I mean, I don't feel like we have a problem in our current house. We just right now we have about 8 acres and we could be comfortable with like three or less and that could move us to a comfortable home and eliminate the whole mortgage issue. Like we like our home, but then we're also thinking that being mortgage free and have the extra margin to be able to do extra things >> I love that.

>> How how how many kids do you have?

>> We have two. >> Two. >> Five and eight. >> Five and eight, okay. Um can I throw another idea out here?

>> Sure. >> I want to I want to flip that your whole situation around, okay?

>> Mhm. >> You and your husband have worked your butts off for a long time to get into the exact situation you're in right now.

>> Mhm. >> Y'all have a more than half a million-dollar house and you have 160 grand left on it.

You don't owe anybody anything.

You are deciding, I might just want to stop working full-time and I want to

invest fully into my kids.

>> Right. >> Y'all have Y'all are winning all across the board.

I I off top of my head I forgot the psychological construct here, but

here's the basic nature of it. If Dave Ramsey called me texted me and said, "Hey, I'm going to give you a huge raise. Come by my office." And I went by his office.

And for him to say the words huge raise, I immediately thought he's going to give me $100,000.

And he gave me 25,000.

He said, "John, you've been doing great work. Here's 25 grand, my gift to you."

I would feel like he took 75 grand from

me. Because I made up a story in my head and my body started solving for that story.

I would have spent a hundred grand by the time I went up to his office on the sixth floor of this building.

Right? And so, here's what I want you to be careful of. You're grieving a reality that was never a reality. It was a story. We're going to pay this house off in five years.

It's not a tragedy that you and your husband chose a different value, which is homeschooling, over another value, which is we don't want to owe anybody any money. You just put one in front of the other for right now. That's a choice y'all made, and it's disappointing. We're going to grieve the fact that man, we thought we were going to have this thing knocked out in five years. Cool, we're not. We're going to spend extra time with our with our kids, and we're going to get this thing done in 10 years.

>> Mhm. >> Right? And so, I I don't want you to hang on to the story because it's it's it's casting a shadow over a pretty amazing situation that you and your husband have worked like crazy to set yourselves up in.

>> Right. >> Y'all are winning. >> Okay. >> You get what I'm saying? And not the Charlie Sheen way, but like y'all are for real winning, right?

>> Yeah. I guess like you said, I I've gone through a grieving process of losing that that thought and that concept.

>> And and let me let me put one more thing on the table.

And I and I've said this a million times on the show, I'll just keep saying it.

Whenever me or my wife, or both of us feel hemmed in by an either/or decision, I have to stop working and home school the kids, or I got to keep working and hate every day. Here's what I want y'all to do. I want you to throw on the table five or 10 random other ideas.

Sell the house. Um work quarter time

instead of part time. Have the kids stay in public schools for one more year or two more years, and then let's hyper drive this thing and get it paid off in insane fashion, and then we're done forever. Like I want y'all to do this exercise cuz it will remind you that y'all are free. Y'all are in the driver seat, and And not in an either/or like dire situation.

We got to turn right or we got to turn left and one of these is going to be the worst decision ever. It's just not the case.

You know what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. Yep. >> So, congratulations there. Jade, any any final words? >> No, I thought that was really really a good way to frame it up.

>> Cool. I'm proud of you guys. This is what it This is what I hate to say it like this, but this is what freedom looks like. You get to make choices and but you still

have to own the choices that you make.

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>> Cincinnati, Ohio, let's talk to Shawn.

Hey Shawn, what's up, man?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um I had an interesting question for you guys.

It's basically that we're in the middle of baby step two.

Um and for personal reasons, for religious reasons, we have to send our children to private school.

And so, we have two kids, we send them both to private school. It costs about 1,600 a month for that. And we were just kind of trying to figure out the the best way to to approach baby step two.

Like just because every year we're going to have to pay that. So, we didn't know, should we pay off all of our debts except that one and then, you know, try to stay ahead of it for the next year by paying it all at once? Is that monthly payment okay? At what at what point do we address it? Kind of just because we know it's always going to be there every year and and it's really important to us that that uh our children go to that school. >> Um how much debt do you have?

>> We have about 20, not including our house, we have about 28,000.

>> Okay, and what's the income?

>> So, combined it's about 78k

a year net.

>> Okay. What does it look like monthly?

What do you bring home?

>> I bring home about 2,300 every 2 weeks, so it's about >> Okay. >> Yeah, 4,600 a month. >> Okay. >> Uh I'm good. >> Um with that 4,600, what's your margin

that you're throwing at this 28,000 of debt?

>> Um so we're So what the debt is made up of is about 6K in the car.

And it's about 22

in student loans. And so that 4,600 a month was That was just mine. My wife brings home another, I don't know, 1,400 >> Okay. >> a month. Um and of that we're doing about about 365

um 365 on student loans and we're doing

about 400 on the car.

Um just because minimums on the student loans are are, you know, more or less that. Um the car minimum is about 230.

>> When you When you say 365 and 400, is that above the minimum payment or is that including >> Yes. >> Okay. >> On the car it's above It's above.

>> So you're putting 700 You have a a margin of $765 over and above minimum payments that you're putting towards your debt.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um I I I would It Tell me if this bothers you. It bothers me that it could foreseeably take you 2 years to pay off $28,000 of debt.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So then the question becomes what are we going to do about that?

>> Right. >> And I'm asking you, what are you going to do about that?

>> Um I mean we're just kind of, you know, taking it day by day. We're trying to >> But you can't Don't say day by day cuz I just rolled out the math for you. It bothers me that it would take you over 2

years to pay off $28,000 and you've said it bothers you, too, as it should. My real question to you on the line is what are you going to do about that?

>> I mean change it just more towards it.

>> Yeah. So there's two things you can do.

two There's a There's two There's I'll give you a hint cuz there's two factors to this. You can either decrease expenses or you can increase income or you can do both together. So, where do you think your greatest potential lies? Does it lie in lowering expenses or does it lie in increasing income?

>> Um right now probably decreasing expenses.

>> I would say that. Um but I I also know for you it felt like the 1600 was immovable.

>> Yeah, it it it kind of is.

>> Why is that? >> for personal reasons. It it's it's personal reasons I really prefer not to get into on the air, but just like assuming that that is the reality. I'm I'm curious how you guys would address it.

I know you guys would disagree with the premise that that is the reality, but if it were >> Well, if you tell me listen, it's your life. If you tell me this this is immovable and I'm not shaking on it, then I'm not going to waste my time trying to push you on it.

Are you um is your wife who makes 1600 a

month is she willing to go find a full-time job and double her income now that the kids are in school?

>> Right. >> Cuz you cuz like Right. You can go make more money especially for a sprint to get this thing knocked out.

>> Right. And so, I guess I'm I'm kind of asking knowing that that expense is going to be there every year, would it be so far ahead of it you're paying this thing in full at the start of every year in cash? >> afford to do that. That's even That's not a relevant question for you.

You can't afford that. >> Yeah, because then what happens then here then then the equation becomes this. It's cool to side hustle and sprint like John said when you have a short-term goal, but that's not a long-term That's not sustainable long-term. So, to your point if this 1600 is going to be part of your life forever, now you have to start looking at long-term measures and going, "Okay, my core income just does not sustain the life that I want." That means I have to start looking for ways to get my core income up.

So, that's either I switch my full-time job, I move to a less expensive area, I go to a place where there's jobs that pay higher. Do you see what I'm saying? So, we really have to decide and I I'm working on your framework, which is 1,600 is not movable. If that's the case, then you guys do need to look at solutions that are long-term solutions.

foreseeable future. >> And monthly, yeah, it's a bill. It's a water bill. It's a light bill. You don't need to save up 16 * 12 or 16 * 9 and

try to figure out how to come up with that many thousands of dollars. Like A, you can't do that. You don't make that kind of money. But it's you're not in debt to the school. Just same as you're not in debt to the cell phone company. >> Right, right. >> Right, it's a bill.

>> Okay. So, just treating it kind of like that, kind of like a really expensive water bill. >> It's a very, very expensive bill.

>> In terms of tackling it, I got you.

Okay. Thank you. >> Now, when you you might be closer than we think. So, let's see here. Your car payment your your minimum What's your minimum car payment?

>> 233. >> 233? And what's the minimum student loan payment?

>> Like 350.

>> Okay, so we're getting close.

Um if we add that up together, cuz you told me before the 765, that does not include minimums, right?

>> Right. So, so minimum is 233, we pay

about 400, and then the the minimum on those student loans is about 350, we pay like 365 just to put a little something on top, but >> I mean, that puts you at $1,348 that you have back in your budget once you pay this debt off. Which it's not 1,600, but

it's finding you a little bit of money to put towards that. So, that's the gap that you're going to have to close. But, just remembering when you do that, you're not going to have any other margin.

>> Right. For sure. >> So, you've got you've got your work cut out for you. What do you think you're going to do?

>> We're going to decrease decrease expenses. >> Can your wife not go earn more money?

>> Um not really, no. But, I'll I'll find

ways. I'll make it work.

>> That that just I'm just telling you, dude, we've been doing this a long time.

Those words, "I'll make it work," are famous last words. >> Will you make one deal with me, though?

>> Sure. >> Will you promise me you just won't go into debt to make this work? Because what I see is what I'm This is what I'm most worried about for you. Your your decision with your school, I'm not going to take you to task on that.

You're You know, you're going to value what you value. So, don't hear me say that like this is a terrible thing. But, what I'm afraid for you is if it gets tight, I would hate for you guys to start leaning on credit cards or anything like that to fill these gaps. So, just promise me no matter what you do, please don't let this be a recipe for you to say yes to debt or credit.

>> For sure. >> And and I'll just tell you, you your language is of a man who's trapped.

And trapped men never make great choices long term.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And so, if that means you it means if your wife can't do anything else, if there's just no options about the schooling, then you might have to look in the mirror and say, "Okay, I'm going to have to go get another job.

I'm going to have to go make some more money. I'm going to have to work two or three jobs like millions and millions of men are doing all across the country to provide for their families." But, it it might take that kind of sacrifice and that kind of change. But, man, I get real nervous anytime I hear a man who sounds trapped because that's when, like you say, Jade, that's when they start making gambles, they start making bets, they start day trading, they start crypto, they just start doing stuff that they normally wouldn't do, and man, they find themselves in a big, big mess.

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up, John?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> We're doing great, brother. >> the call. >> Thanks. You thanks for calling. What's up? >> No, thanks. Um I'm just looking for some advice. So, I've got a unique situation.

My grandmother passed away a few years ago. Um my my mom my dad's mother. He's got a

second cousin that kind of contested her will. Um it took about 2 years. He spent

about $60,000 of his own money. We don't know how much is in her accounts. And in the end, he's now asking She circumvented him cuz they don't have a great relationship. So, in the end, the money's going to end up going to me.

And I have a great relationship with my mom. They're still married. But, you know, he's telling her to tell me that once I get my money that I owe him the $60,000.

So, I bring this up because when it came

time for me to go get my master's degree, I was looking at going to the East Coast. He convinced me to stay on the West Coast. He said I'll pay for your student loans. He didn't. I paid off the 150k. So, like with all this kind of going on and him kind of trying to use my mom to guilt me into paying him back, like am I obligated to pay him the $60,000 or should I just wipe it out considering he never came through with paying for my college? >> How old are you?

>> I'm 40. >> 40.

How much money are we talking here?

>> I don't know. That's the thing. It could be a dollar, it could be $300,000. I'm assuming since one of the second cousins tried to contest the will at a decent amount of money, probably 3 to 500 grand. >> Okay. When's the last time

and I'm kind of poking at you, but just know like if we were sitting at a table, I'd be smiling when I'm saying this, okay? >> Yeah. >> Um when's the last time you called your dad and had a grown man conversation?

>> Oof. >> Because here's the deal. >> Yeah. >> This is how kids work. Hey, tell Susie that I've got a crush on Sutton, but don't tell her that like and then Sutton tells Susie, well, John, I don't like you see what I'm saying? Y'all are playing telephone through your poor mom. Y'all are grown men.

>> Yeah. No, I know. We We haven't spoken in 3 years. He got into a fight with my wife and obviously I chose my wife's side. >> Yeah, if he was to be a grown man and call his son and say, hey, I fought this, it's this much money, here's what I spent on it.

It feels right to me that you would come back. And then you said, well, let's have a deeper conversation. You told me you'd pay for this and then you walked away and I got stuck with 150. Have a grown-up conversation.

>> Okay. >> But I'm not going to play telephone with my dad. I would tell my mom, Mom, I don't want to hear any more of the pass-through. If dad wants to talk to me about money, he can call me like a grown-up.

And for you, brother, you did the thing.

You paid it off.

>> Yeah. >> Every minute you wake up and choose to think about that and let me ask you this, how many imaginary conversations have you had with your dad over that student loan?

>> Too many. >> Exactly. And you always win them. You get this mic drop moment. He's like, "You're right, son. I love you." And he writes you a hundred fifty None of that's ever going to happen, ever.

>> Yeah. >> And so every minute you choose to engage in that is a minute uh I mean is is a choice to not have the energy that you could spend on your wife, on your kids, on your on the life you're living right now.

You did the noble right thing. You had a problem with your money. Somebody didn't show up for you and you paid it off. I'm proud of you for that, dude.

>> Thank you. >> That's what men do. They step up and solve a problem. Um I would tell my mom, "Hey Mom, I I don't want to have any more pass-through conversations. If Dad wants to talk about money, he can call me." >> Okay. >> And free her from that and she can tell him free yourself from that. Um and then

when it gets to that conversation, man, I I I would just have a lot more questions than I could I could answer on you right now. I If he was choosing to go to war with the second cousin cuz he's got 70 years of disdain for a second cousin or he thought he was in this will and suddenly he didn't find himself in it. Like, who knows, man? Right?

Who knows how much he actually spent on these bills? He's already proven to you he's not trustworthy.

>> Okay. I like that. >> Now, if your dad had called you three years ago and said, "Second cousin showed up. I'm going to war for this thing.

It's going to be expensive. Um I'm going to need an agreement from you that I'm going to spend some money on this thing, but we're going to win this thing together." I could have seen you going, "Well, yeah, dude. Let's do that." Cuz it's the right thing to do. He didn't do that, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, I understand.

>> What do you think, Jade? >> I I think that you couldn't have said it better. And I don't think there's much else to say about this. And I I almost don't want to continue it on because you've already run through this so many times in your brain. I just want to slam the gavel and go, "That's it. It's over.

You're going to get your inheritance and that's that on that." >> Okay. No, I like that. I didn't think about it from that perspective, either.

>> The one thing I'll I'll tell you, and I

I all of us on this show get grief for this. Um when I tell somebody who's got a 3.1%

mortgage that they got right after COVID and they they think they're winning life by hanging on to it, right?

I always tell folks, "Dude, my financial picture, I'm not solving for max ROI. I

am simply using money to solve for peace in my life." Right? And so, I use that frame on almost every single thing I do.

And so, in this case, if you get a check for 500,000 bucks and 60 grand gets this person out of your life forever and you choose to not repay a debt cuz you don't have one. But, if you choose to write a check for a soul tax for you to end this thing you're not starving. You're left with 440 grand, right? That can be a choice you choose to make.

Um I can guarantee you, if you do write that check, he's going to come knocking for more. >> going to say, that's not going to be the end of it.

>> That's been the story of my life. >> There you go. And so, if this has been in in you said it you just said it perfectly. Um He's been doing this to you your whole life, hasn't he?

>> Yeah. Yeah, there have been multiple times where he's hit me up for money, paid me back, hit me up for money, paid me back, and then >> And that's why you need to just put this to rest cuz it's just drain it's just a drain. >> Yeah, I amend my answer. No, I wouldn't give him any money.

If he calls you and flies down and y'all have a grown-up over like grown-up adult male conversation at a diner where y'all shake hands, then so be it. Y'all can come up with a deal there.

>> Got it. Okay, thank you very much. I appreciate it. >> brother. Take care, man. Thanks for being a person of of high integrity and wanting to get this thing right. That's That's pretty noble of you, brother.

Let's go out to Dallas and talk to Victoria. What's up, Victoria?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Oh, I'm right up against the clock, so get right to your question here.

>> Okay. Okay, so recently got a good paying job, um but I started getting into debt right afterward. I'm getting married, I moved, um but my big question is I have about a little about $18,000 in debt, but I'm getting a good bonus at the end of the year. Do I continue with the debt snowball, or do I kind of live normally and then just pay it off at the end of the year?

>> Okay. >> Or or I I think you need the muscle.

I think you need the like 9 months of

grinding. >> True that. That's great for the soul.

It's great for the confidence. >> the way, Jade and I would not have a job if everybody's bonus always came through at the end of the year like they were promised.

>> That's true. Yeah, I hear you. >> I wouldn't hold my breath for nothing.

This This show is made up of people who the government's going to pay off everything and they're going to forgive and the boss said I'm going to get a and it doesn't work out. Keep doing the same thing you're doing. Pay it off month by month. Practice that muscle, and if you get a bonus check at the end of the year, it's just that, a bonus.

The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YRefi.

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>> Okie dockey, today's question comes from Alexandra in Oregon. She says, "My fiance and I just postponed our wedding

for the third time because he is at risk of losing his house again.

This is due to him being convict Hold on, I got to get myself together.

This is due to him being convinced the business that he started 5 years ago is going to be a success, but it has yet to turn a profit. I've asked him to get a full-time job so we can get married, but he refuses to give up his dream of being an entrepreneur. I'm tired of my life being on hold while he chases success.

Should I give him more time or move on?"

I think you better cut it loose. I think it's time to cut it loose.

I I mean, here's the thing.

I'm looking at this and you're writing

into a radio show because you're you've had it. If you take the time to email a radio show, you've had it. >> That level of desperation.

>> He's postponed the wedding three times.

Now, and he's almost lost his house.

Like there's no security there. Now, here's what I will say.

Um Being an entrepreneur, if you are if you are truly of the entrepreneurial spirit,

you are not going to everything is not going to be awesome and everything is not going to be a success. There's going to be ideas that suck and then there's going to be ideas that are pretty good and then there's going to be ideas that like yeah, that one was it, right? So,

there is part of that where there's a roller coaster to ride, but what I would hope he would be doing is in the meantime working some sort of stable job while he's putting his hand in all those other different things. That's the only that's that's the best that you can ask for. >> is not a pass on being an idiot.

>> Yeah. >> Right? And or not it's not a pass on not

believing the rules of math apply to you. >> That's right. >> Right? Or or not being a person of character and integrity. So, as as the great um Dave Ramsey once said, see you

later, Felicia. That's what I would say.

Yeah.

This one's Yeah, here's the thing, Alexandra, and this isn't going to give you any more peace.

He's already left you.

He is married to this fantasy

and he's giving it his time. He's about to give it his home. He's giving it his energy and he's already >> left. >> You keep hanging on and cuz you love him and I admire that about you.

But he has moved on.

And so, I think it's time for you to move on, too. That's our two cents, but we're a couple of radio people who have never met you before. So, you do what you want to do. I would be willing to bet um 100 bucks you're going to have a fourth wedding on the books within two months. What do you think, Jade? >> Yeah, you're probably Well, I don't know. If I could hear her voice on the phone, I'd have a better >> go. That's probably true. That's probably true. >> gauge. I think it's time, clearly.

Anybody who's He's continuing to value whatever it is that he's doing at a fail to being able to have success with you over here on the other side. >> I want I want someone who's going to marry my daughter to put the energy and

obsession that he has in his business into my daughter. >> Man, yes. >> That's what I want. >> Mhm. >> You want me to Like we need to get a house? Done. You I need to work three jobs to make something happen? Done. Like we're going to do that. >> Wait, so what you're touching on is something that this This is about to be a whole discussion.

Because it's so true. This is for all of us, not just uh old boy who started at his business 5 years ago and wasn't successful. But that's all of us. If you look up and you're putting more intentionality and time and effort into anything that's

not your family, you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself. Yeah.

>> And And here I think people take that the wrong way.

Like I've been working on a new book project for 2 years. You just had a book come out. >> Yeah. >> My wife and I, like 8 months ago, we

went on like what I call like a final date. Like we know this is coming and we've been on dates since then. But like we're about to hit >> wild season. My wife's an author. She wrote in this season. We got two young kids. Like we've been in it.

>> Mhm. >> But the the anchor point is all of this

circles back, not so Dad can get famous, not so I can get just another book on the shelf, but for us and for people in

the our local community, right? People like And so but it's anchor starts there. >> Mhm. >> And so there are seasons that are way out of whack and way out of balance and you and I are on the road and we're doing like >> do sprints.

>> But it all anchors back to her and I sat across the table and said, "All right, all hands in. We're going about to have this season coming up and here's what our life is going to look like on the backside of this thing, right? But, man, you are married to somebody who is having an affair with their job, or actually you're the affair. Their love is their job. Their love is their golf game. Their love is their whatever, their phone.

Man. >> It's a problem. Yeah, cuz not you trying to think so strategically about how you're going to get your next raise and how you're going to navigate these relationships, and you're not being that intentional with how you navigate your relationships at home. You're not You know, you're like you said, you're focused on your golf game and improving your swing, you know, improving your your mile time, all those things, but you don't put the same thought into your money.

You don't put the same thoughts into your relationships. I'm just saying. First things first. You got to put the first things first, is all I'm saying.

>> If if Here's what I want people listening to do. Go home today. Remember like if you went to college, you went to you were in high school, you got a syllabus. Here's all the books you got to read this semester.

Here's when the assignments are due. Here's the homework schedule.

I want you to ask your spouse for a syllabus of them.

What are five books they love? What are five movies they love? What are five podcasts they're listening to these days? What are five big topics they have?

And I want you to spend a couple of months knowing your spouse, learning them again, studying them, talking to them, going to dinner with them and saying, "All right, I'm not going to try to debate you. I just want to hear what you think about this What's going on overseas? What do you think about what's going on in politics? I'm not going to I'm not going to fight at all.

"I think it was terrible. Tell me about what you liked about it." >> Yeah. >> Um but get to know each other again. And that level of intentionality.

Man, if I can put that much into the next bass rod I'm going to get or my next hunting spot, and I won't give that to my wife, what kind of husband does that make me, right? >> Right. And I've been there for years, right? >> Right.

Cuz at work, you'll talk to Chad and act like what he's saying is the most exciting thing ever, just so that you look good in front of Chad.

Listen, I've got this before. >> I should NOT KNOW JADE I I'm I'm getting convicted in real time. I should not know the Seymour Duncan P90s that I just put in my Les Paul. I should not know how that all works and not know how my wife likes her coffee. >> It's so important. I'm telling you. Yes.

>> That's more important than this. I should have that stuff covered in my spirit. I should be paying more attention making sure she's got coffee in the morning making sure hey I'm going to run to the store. I'm going to fill her car up with gas on Sunday night knowing instead of getting on money being like oh she didn't put I'm going to do that. >> Yes. >> I should do that stuff. You know why? Cuz I do it for my guitars. I do it for

my hunting gear. >> all done it. >> Man. >> We've all done it. We've all done it.

>> So to reiterate Alexandra see you later

Felicia. Um do we have to Now we talked too long Jade.

>> I'm still on it. You you closed you wrapped it UP TOO SOON.

FIRST things first. You know what? Hit me with one of those social questions Sean. >> where the You know what I already already moved them off. >> Really? I've got one. I've got one from Tik Tok. Okay.

>> You're my favorite place to hang.

>> Oh this is great. Okay. >> Did you know if somebody came to me and said hey log into Tik Tok or I'm going to set you on fire? >> You'd be on fire right now. Bones.

>> get it going. Get it going. I don't know how to log in. All right go for it.

>> Okay Michael from Tik Tok says let's see we are planning on selling our current home and purchasing a new home within the next few months. Does it make sense to keep attacking the mortgage or should we save money more money towards the next down payment? Um you really could

do either or. I probably would save the

money out in cash >> just in case you don't get from your house what you were expecting to get possibly. >> Yeah and it depends on how much cash you already have for your down payment for your next house. If you're sitting on a couple hundred thousand dollars then yeah keep grinding away at it. But um I if I knew I was going to put my house on the market in two or three months >> It's months, >> Yeah I I would I would pay minimums and keep the cash.

>> cash. I would do the same thing. >> I would do. Hey, thanks for being with us.

We're going to be back for another hour soon. Right here on the Ramsey Show. Oh, we're still going.

>> Joe, I thought you were giving me the Joe is our fearless >> I'm not another social question here.

>> audio engineer.

Listen, this is why they don't let me drive, ladies and gentlemen. Sometimes I run into the median. >> I'm here for you. >> Love you guys. We'll be back soon.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm John Delony joined by Jade Warshaw. Let's go out to Austin, Texas, the 512, and talk

to Mike McMike. What's up, Mike?

>> How's it going, guys? >> Doing all right, brother. What's up?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um, a bit of an odd situation.

Um, I received a promotion about 2 weeks ago from my work.

>> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Um, although they do a truck allowance program versus

a company truck program.

And so, after looking into it, um, and

looking at their stipulations of what that vehicle needs to be, um, I would have to buy something and finance it. And I really don't want to do that. Me and my wife just got out of um, just got 100% debt free. Um, and so, just don't know how you guys would handle this situation. >> Is the stipulation reimbursement only or

do you have to have a certain truck at a certain mileage and year and then they'll they'll give you a stipend?

>> Certain truck of a certain mileage and a certain year and then I get a monthly stipend. >> Okay. Um

You're going to hate my answer, but if if I'm in your exact shoes, I would probably begin either A, I'd make the decision I'm going to wave the stipend and I know that's free money, but my my freedom is worth more than that or I

would save up the money on my own and buy buy the truck and then take the stipend. >> Yeah, what why can't you be on a elongated timeline? Does it Do you have to make this decision immediately is what I'm saying?

>> Yeah, so they gave me a 30-day 30-day timeframe to make that decision.

Um just because I explained to my

district supervisor that you know, I don't want to go out and finance a truck and and in order to to be in. So I would just use the current truck I have although my current truck that I have now won't pull the big trailers and it's only a half-ton versus it needing to be a 1-ton to get the monthly stipend.

>> So can you even perform the job with your current truck or you cannot?

>> Um short answer, no.

>> What's um What does it cost to get a used vehicle?

>> It I mean the used that's the problem.

It I mean they're asking you to buy an $80,000 truck, right? >> And I'm I'm I'm looking I'm looking used, but I mean even a used vehicle is

a used truck that would work under 100,000 miles and not older than 5 years old. I mean I'm looking at, you know, 40-50,000 truck.

>> a minute. Not Not to get the truck allowance to actually be able to pull what you need to pull like to act There's two searches. There's one search that gets you the allowance. The other search is just a vehicle that is able to like physically do what the vehicle has to do, right?

>> Um, yes. >> Okay. So, my guess is if you did a search on getting a vehicle that just does what it needs to do, that's going to be cheaper than a vehicle that would get you the allowance.

>> Um, correct.

>> Okay. >> here's my But then I weigh that stipend.

>> You you do. How much is the stipend?

>> Uh, 2,500.

>> A month? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that's a that's a significant chunk of change.

>> Yes, sir. >> But I I want you to consider what they're doing.

They are asking They're putting that much money on the table um, for a couple of things. A, they want

fancy-looking trucks to show up to to job sites.

They want to look like they are are this is Look at what our guys are driving, right?

But they want you, the employee, to carry 100% of the risk because they can

be out of pocket two months, they can be out of pocket five grand, you're sitting on a 50 or 60 thousand dollar note, and then they decide to go a different direction.

And you're stuck. You see what I'm saying? >> Yeah, what happens if you leave the job or what happens if you're fired? What happens to the value of the truck at that point? The stipend stops, right?

>> Yeah, and then in that certain point, I would just I would just sell the vehicle.

>> Right, that you might be upside down on or that has lost value or that, right?

So, the onus becomes on you for all of this. >> There's a reason they're paying this much money. Nobody No business is just

like, you know what? Let's just throw some money at some guys just for fun.

They've done the They've done the actuarial work here to say, let's not

have our own fleet and let's not manage our own fleet. Let's transfer all of that depreciation, all of the risk onto our employees, and we'll just write them a check for it. >> Yeah, that's not good.

They want you to go buy them.

And nobody making the money that they're paying you can actually afford this, so they're going to pay you to make a payment. Um that to me I I just don't

like that arrangement. It makes me uncomfortable because it puts me and my family on the block and they don't have any skin in this game.

But, if you are going to do it, man, get the minimum threshold you can get through the door with.

>> And that's what I was looking at and would that not matter based on if if I

mean, outside of our emer- our our emergency fund, I have a sizable amount of money saved up and if I throw that at it, I won't be upside down.

That's kind of the route I was I was thinking of going on this and I mean,

they've been This company's been around since the '60s and and everybody in this situation has had good luck with it and the only reason they got rid of fleet vehicles is guys were just just weren't taking care of it and it was costing them a lot more money and now that guys are using their personal trucks, they're taking care of them and they're lasting a lot longer. >> I mean, I I I get their business I I I get their business deal. I mean, what they're doing makes sense to me. I get it.

I'm on your team.

>> Right. >> And so, I it just feels like a it feels like a big liability to be hanging on to.

But, yeah, you I mean, you do you. How much cash do you have saved?

>> Uh about 28,000.

>> Okay. Um and how much in your emergency fund?

>> Uh we've got about 22,000 right now.

>> Okay.

Is there a possibility you could dwindle that sucker down to where it's just a few months and you go in and get pretty dang close to paying for this thing in cash?

>> Um, yeah.

>> And use that 2,500 bucks Just be militant about paying be militant about taking that $2,500 stipend plus any extra cash you'll have and refilling every every cash bucket you got.

>> Yes. And that's kind of what would be the plan. I mean I if I got to make double or triple payments a month to get it paid off, you know, in in in 6 months, that would 100% be the idea. I

mean the last thing I want is debt. We just spent 2 years trying to get out of it. >> Yeah, totally. I mean >> I just I'm trying to be smart about this, but also this is something I've been working for for the last 10 years and I'd really hate to give it up because I you know, I I don't want to

go and buy a truck.

>> I get that, but at some point anybody who says they have a principle, that principle's always going to get checked.

>> Right. >> Right. And so it it's always going to get checked. I If if I was put in your situation and I didn't have another option, yada yada yada, I would probably Jay, tell me if I'm wrong, I would dwindle my cash down to what I could manage and I'd keep as a cushion in the bank um, and then I would be a lunatic about getting that sucker refilled.

>> I'd really um, I'd really push for a different I'd try to get creative. I'd sit down with chat GPT tonight and roll a bunch of different scenarios.

Really get creative and come to them with a lot of solutions. That shows that you care and you want to solve the problem.

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

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>> Let's roll out to Grand Rapids, Michigan and talk to Sky. What up, Sky? How we doing?

>> Hey.

>> How can we help?

>> Hi. So, I'm about to graduate college and I have a full-time job lined up, but I'm trying to decide whether or not I should live at home and commute the hour and a half both ways each day for a while to kind of help pay off debt or if I should look for an apartment, you know, within like a 10-minute drive.

>> A hour and a half each way?

>> Yeah, I'm from a really rural area, so like >> So, we're saying 3 hours a day?

3 hours a day? >> How much debt Oh, hold on. How much debt do you got? >> Never. >> Um I'm I'm going to graduate with about 15,000 in loans, so it's not like terrible. >> No, get an If you told me you were going to be 50 or 100 grand, I might tell you 3 hours a day is the price you pay for a year, but man, 15 grand, you'll have that knocked out in no time, right?

>> Okay, I mean, yeah, that's what I was kind of thinking, but I just didn't know if it was worth it to drive for a while to just kind of get it paid off as soon as possible. >> Well, >> think about this, 3 hours * 5 is 15 hours. You could probably uh >> I think it's going to make you hate the work that you do. >> It's going to make you hate your life.

>> It's just a bad You're You're graduating, you're entering into your field.

>> Okay. >> I think have you run it out and said, "Okay, if I do this, how long will it take me?"

>> Um not really cuz it's not I'm not going to I guess not great paying, but >> What's the pay for the job? >> job. So, it's 1945 an hour before taxes,

full-time. Um it is in the events industry, so there will probably be some overtime associated with that.

>> You would have to make a commitment to yourself. I'm going to work Here's Let's Let's change it and say it this way. The next 2 years of your life should be pretty tough.

>> Okay. >> Pretty miserable. You can share that You can have that misery in the car driving back and forth to to your mom and dad's house, still having to abide by their curfew and not being able to date anyone cuz y'all live out in on a farm, or

it could be pretty miserable, pretty tough, grinding, but you're taking every possible job in

your industry and in your space and getting to know people and shake hands and hang out with people your age and getting as much exposure as you possibly can cuz you're going to get this debt paid off in 12 months or less. And then you're going to spend the next year grinding and getting an emergency fund.

>> Right. >> So, if you think of it that way, you're going to you're going to spend this time working and you're going to spend this time like grinding. I would rather do that and look up and be 24, 25 years old, have

put two or three long hour days this two

or three years worth of long hour days towards the job industry I want to be a part of than driving back and forth to my parents' house. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes, 100% because at least

if you move closer to work, when you're done with work, you can easily get to your next job cuz it's right there in town. >> Yeah. Oh, I didn't think about that. Yeah. >> And you can do more actual work cuz you're in town. So, it's like, oh, okay, I get off my job here and now I'm going to head over to the the place where I bartend or I'm going to head over to, you know, where I work at NikeTown or whatever it is that you do on the side.

Whereas if you're out in the boonies, you've wasted 3 hours a day and you can't get it back and there's nothing else out there to do. >> Yeah. >> That's true. >> Except shoot rabbits. What do you guys do out there?

>> Something like that. >> Something like something like that. Yeah, so that that's what that's what we would do. Congratulations on graduating and get that debt paid off ASAP. And

just just know if you're 21 and you're graduating 2 years is not enough. The next 5, 7, 8

years of your life just know I'm going to get after it.

Jade, the life I live right now is based on I was pretty unhealthy, but working like a mad person in my 20s.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Saying yes to every opportunity, every speaking engagement, every degree opportunity, every what All of those skills I learned along the way give me the life I have now. >> The 20s are for scratching and clawing.

>> For everything. >> is that is the definition of that decade

is you scratch, you claw, you're tired,

you work some more, you fail a little bit, you work some more. Like that is the 20s. Like >> All right. All right. Arthur Brooks, the great Arthur Brooks. He He said this recently, our culture has flipped and we so over index for our 20s and 30s and we

under index for our 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, and 90s. And the fun I thought I would be having in my 20s, dude, now that I can have that kind of fun in my 40s. >> got some money? >> money.

I got time. I got my own car and it starts every time I turn it on, right? LIKE >> I KNOW. I KNOW.

>> I HAVE an amazing wife. Like it like it I never would have dreamed it was this awesome. >> I I couldn't agree more. I literally had this conversation with Sam Warshauer.

I was like, man, everybody thinks like 20s are like the glory years or like back when I was younger. Like No.

And I'm like, no. In your 20s, first off, half of us aren't even married yet.

So we're out here just trying to survive that whole situation. And then you got no money. You don't have any respect on your name in your career. Like it's just when I look back on it, I go, actually the 20s are kind of trash.

>> 40s, I'm going to the same shows in the same mosh pits. I'm just able to uh >> You can afford the good tickets. >> t-shirt, too. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't have to sneak onto the floor. I can pay for the floor seats now. >> I mean, that truer words have never been spoken and it's so true. Just know it's necessary. Like 20s are building years and it's so necessary to just let it like let the build begin. >> Grind it. Grind it. Grind it. >> Embrace it for what it is. >> All right. Let's go out to Brandon in Pittsburgh.

Let's see here. Where are we at? Uh right here. Brandon, what's up?

>> Hi. Um so I I have kind of a big big thing.

>> Let it rip.

>> All right. So I'm I'm a truck driver. I make about 3,200 bi-weekly. Uh my wife works for the a store. She's a a manager there. She gets about 1,700 bi-weekly.

Um I have a mortgage payment about 1,200 bucks per month and a pickup truck payment for 800 a month. Um my wife covers utilities. She has her own car payment for 700 a month. I um owe about 35,000 for my car. She owes 41,000. I

have 120,000 on the house and a credit card debt of uh $3,600 and a wedding

loan that's $15,000 and I'm slowly paying off my credit card debt and I'd like to start paying off the wedding loan faster, too, and building savings.

So, now my question is I have no clue how to build wealth. I am numerically illiterate, don't know where to start.

>> Came to the right place, brother. >> You did. >> Perfect. >> And you had your numbers listed down and ready. I couldn't even keep up writing it all fast enough. So, >> All I heard was you got $1,500 in car payments between you and your wife. >> Yeah, that's a lot. >> Yes, it's a lot. And for her yeah, I I

commute back and forth to work. Um I >> You can do that on a go on a GoPed, dude. Like and not really, but you know what I mean? You don't need a >> Those are expensive.

Even used car payments Like my first car when I was in high school was $1,700. It's like 6,000 now, which I could go ahead and trade in my truck for one, but >> Yes, we're doing that. >> I don't really need a truck, either. >> Let me get back Let me get back to the the question at hand cuz we don't have a lot of time.

Um the the the crux of your question first because this is going to inform everything I say next. You asked, "I don't I don't know the first thing about building wealth." And the first thing about building wealth is you've got to get control of your income. Dave Ramsey would say your biggest wealth-building tool is your income. And you've got a decent one. I think combined you guys are at like 9,200 a month a month. Is that about right?

>> About right, yep. >> Okay, that's a decent income. The problem is it's going out the door. You said it yourself, to debt payments every single month, whether it be the pickup truck, the car, the the the the wedding loan, the credit cards.

So, the way we get our our income back in our hands and back in our control is we have to have to have to pay off the debt. And that's the part that nobody likes to do. Over here we teach a series of seven baby steps and the second baby step, baby step two, is the one that's about paying off debt and everybody hates it because it's it requires, you know, discipline, it takes a while, all of that.

Before we get off the line, we're going to send you every dollar, we're going to send you the book The Total Money Makeover, and we're going to set you up with Financial Peace University. All of those things walk you through our seven baby steps system. It's a plan for your life and it has to do with you taking these debts, lining them up smallest to largest, paying minimum payments on all of them, but throwing all of your extra money every single month at that smallest debt. That's the main part, that's the first thing that you really have to get your head around.

But all the resources that we sent you are going to teach you how to budget so that you can do that. It's going to teach you how to say no to debt because we don't do debt anymore. All of this is going to set you up for that win, my brother. I can't wait.

Hang on the line, we'll get you hooked up.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

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>> Let's go out to New York and talk to

April.

What line is April on? April is on line four. What's up, April?

>> Hi.

Um I'm 65 Well, I'll be 65 years old this year and I didn't start working until I was about 63.

Um I'm wondering, will I be able to catch up to be able to retire? And what

things can I do to to build retirement money faster? >> Well, thanks for calling. Tell me about your life.

>> Um well, I I work 40-hour week.

Um I make about a little over $22 an hour.

>> Yeah. >> Um I'm debt-free. I own everything, my

home, my vehicles. >> Very cool. >> cash for everything. >> Why did you start working at 63?

>> Well, I've been a housewife pretty much since I was 16 years old and um

through series of marriages and divorces, I haven't been

the last husband I wasn't with long enough to be able to get any part of his retirement. So, being divorced, I had to figure it out on my own.

>> Okay. >> So, >> I I've got about 85 to 85,000

that I have saved up over the course of time, and uh most of that, I'd say, um about 53,000

is in savings.

I'm not sure if I should just be leaving it in my savings, or if I should be

trying to put it somewhere. I know I get these Social Security statements every so many months a year.

>> Mhm. >> And I'm looking at, you know, maybe $600 a month if I'm lucky.

>> Right. Okay.

Um So, of the 85,000, you said some of it's separated. Where's the other portion of it? >> The rest of it's in the checking account. >> Okay. So, >> 53 alone in the savings.

>> What I would do is I'd probably put 6

months of expenses in a high-yield savings account. Could we say maybe 20, 25,000, and put that in a high-yield savings?

>> And when you uh say high-yield savings, what does that exactly mean?

>> It's a It's a It's a form of a savings account that has a slightly higher compounding interest rate. Just a a slightly higher interest rate. That's it. >> Okay. Cuz my my bank is 5%. I'm not sure

if that's >> Oh, 5% is good. >> you get 5%, you're fine. Don't do a somersault and leave your money there. >> Yeah, don't move it. >> But I would I would move the other 50,000, and I

would invest that.

>> Okay. >> And I would get with a SmartVestor Pro, which will give you the information on that. You can go on ramsaysolutions.com, or you can go on ask Ramsey and say, "I need a SmartVestor Pro." And that person's going to sit down with you, and they're going to help you and teach you about the best ways to invest your money. >> Okay. Cuz I I start a 401K in October

>> Okay, great.

Great. And so there's only about 2,400 in there. I mean, I don't know if I'm supposed to be I know you're supposed to do something with it at 73 years old, but I was really hoping not to have to work that long. Well, that's true, but you may have to. >> Yeah, you will be. >> So you can invest the 50,000

into a Roth IRA over time and you can put some of it in the brokerage account. You can put some of it. So the Smart Investor Pro is going to help you decide all the best places to invest that money, but I want that working for you in the market. I don't want it just sitting in an account because if you invest it, hopefully you're going to get somewhere between a 10 to 11%.

In return is what we're hoping for. So So that's thing one.

>> In that neighborhood, yes. >> Okay, and of that money, how much would you say is extra? We would call it margin.

>> Uh >> Should be quite a bit cuz you have no debt.

>> Well, anything that I have extra I've I've been putting into the 401K.

>> Yes, that's good. That's good.

>> Yes, I've already got it taken out at work.

>> But I want to know beyond that. How much How much margin do you have? And again, margin is extra. So when your check comes home, how much is left that you just say, "Okay, what am I going to do with this money? I get to choose." >> Um probably somewhere around $1,000, 1,500 to 1,000. >> Okay, so I would challenge you that most

much of that money needs to be invested.

>> Almost all of it. >> Okay. >> Because I don't know what percentage you're investing now, do you? What percentage of your of your gross income?

>> I think it's 15%.

>> Okay, since your home is paid off, you get to invest as much as you want.

Which is awesome. Yeah, because you don't have anything else to pay to pay for. So if I were you, I'd be taking that 1,500 and I'd be looking at it going, "Okay, let you know, aside from me maybe going to the movies every once in a while or I you know, maybe I go to to dinner with a friend or whatever, I'd be investing much of that $1,500 as much as you can."

>> Okay. >> Because that's going to be the thing that breaks you free in all of this.

>> All right, that sounds good.

>> And April, I'm telling you this and I would tell my mom, my mom's older than you, but I would tell her this exact thing if she woke up in your situation at 63.

Every penny's going to count when it comes to getting money into savings.

>> All right. >> Okay. >> Yes, I I have a scarcity mindset, so I don't spend any more than I have to and I just I know I'm not anywhere near where I should be though, you know, because of the late start.

>> Right. And and I would make peace with I mean, chances are I mean, the chance is high you'll be working well past 70, okay? >> Okay. >> Cuz let me do some quick math for you.

So, let's just pretend you're 65 now.

Let's say we do this until age 75. Do

you think you can work till 75?

>> Sure. >> Seven I mean, what's your health? I don't know.

It depends on the nature of what you do and what your health is, right?

>> Oh, I work very hard.

I'm running back and forth and running up and downstairs and >> Well, you tell me, what do you think?

>> health. >> What do you think is a realistic time frame that you would be working cuz I want to put plug these numbers in for you. 72?

>> Okay, well, we'll say Okay, let's go with 72. >> 72, does that sound good? Okay. So, let's say 65 to 72. Let's say you put $2,000, you contribute that every single month. That is going to leave you with $250,000.

>> All right. >> Okay, so that gives you a little something. >> I thought. >> Yeah, it does, but then the next thing I'm wondering about is once you are down

to 600 or whatever your social security will allow, if you find that it's really, really tight for you, you need to be looking at number one, I want you to call us back. But number two, remember you've got, I'm guessing a pretty decent home that you're sitting on. What's your home worth?

>> Um, probably about 185

on the low side.

>> 185, where do you live? Oh, you're in New York. >> York City, you have a $185,000 house?

>> that happen? >> It's It's actually central New York, but

>> It's still you can't sneeze in New York for 180 grand, can you? >> It's worth 185?

>> Well, not with the gas prices they have now. >> All right, well, you foiled my plan. I was going to say if you have if you have some decent, you know, value in your

home, you might be able to sell that and get something smaller that you pay cash for. But I don't know if you can get much smaller than 185. >> No, you've you've kind of won the housing lottery these days with 185.

>> Mhm.

>> Well, actually my plan is to sell this house and hopefully move to Tennessee, but I got to crunch the numbers.

>> Well, >> Well, we don't have a state income tax.

I don't know what you're going to do with all that extra money that New York takes out of your paycheck. You'll have to figure out what to do with that. But yeah, you I mean, I don't know where you would find a place to live for 180 grand in Nashville in Tennessee.

>> I think your I think your best bet is doing your best to save any and every

bit of money that you can. And honestly, while you feel good, if you've got the energy to run up and down steps and do all this, I'd be looking for even more work that I can pick up.

>> All right. >> Cuz the more you work >> Maybe I can get some overtime. >> Yep, the more you work, the better the situation bodes for you.

>> Or get a job sitting down like at at one of the beautiful hotels in New York or doing anything, right? But Um, yeah, you're going to have a busy, busy, busy next 10 to 15 years, but we

believe in you. And thanks for thanks for giving us a call and thanks for being on top of things, man, as you get going.

>> Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey Solutions Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

>> Today's scripture of the day is Isaiah 55:2.

Why do you spend money for what is not bread and your wages for what does not satisfy? Listen carefully to me and eat what is good and let your soul delight itself in abundance.

Zig Ziglar says, "Money isn't the most important thing in life, but it's reasonably close to oxygen on the gotta-have-it scale."

>> He's not wrong.

Neither are wrong.

They're both right. >> out to St. Louis, Missouri and talk to

Austin. What's up, Austin?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> We're doing good, brother. What's up?

>> Uh well, first off, thank you guys for taking my call. Um so, something that's been on my mind lately, uh I recently, you know, last year I started listening to you guys' show and it really opened my eyes up to a lot of things and I've been kind of irresponsible with my with my money and uh now I'm $50,000 kind of debt. Um

well, also I'm maxing out my 401k and that's actually why I called you guys for. My uncle, for the past 2 years I've been dumping my money into a 2065 target retirement fund because I never knew what to do, but he told me I need to be investing in either a Vanguard 500 S&P or a Fidelity 500 S&P

and he said don't touch that until you until you're 55.

And you know, that's all fine and dandy,

but I just didn't want to get to 55 and be like, "Oh, where where did all my money go?" And you know, I just I want to set myself up for the best, so I didn't know what you guys had to say about that. >> I was a little confused when you said that when you got to 55 you'd be wondering where your money went. It'd be sitting in the investment that you put it in.

>> Well, that yeah, I just don't I know he told me I never knew anything about the stock market or anything, but he says I should be investing into the stock market >> saying you're just doing what he said.

>> Yes. >> know really what you're invested in.

>> Got you. >> Okay. >> Glad you called, brother. >> How much is in there right now?

Have you looked at it? >> Uh so, when I started doing it about a

month ago, I had you know, $12,000 in

that target retirement fund. Well, in this past month I looked and it's jumped about $3,500.

So, 15.5 right now.

>> Can I tell you what my um mutual fund holding is right now?

>> Yes. >> I have no idea.

And I'm going to tell you I'm going to tell you why. I do look at it once a year, but I don't know what it is right now. You know why?

Because I'm not ever going to pull it out until it's time for me to retire.

>> Okay. >> And if you watch this account like a stock ticker, you're going to make yourself nuts.

Okay? >> That's what That's what my parents tell me all the time. >> Yes. You're going to make yourself >> I like to watch my money grow. >> I I know, but you're not going to like it when the economy has a downturn and there's a 100% chance it will have downturns over the course of your life between now and 55.

And it will make you insane. It will make you feel It will make you feel, um, um, powerful when it shouldn't.

It will make you feel secure when it shouldn't and it will make you feel devastated when it shouldn't.

And so, when you put money in a retirement account, the goal is to not take it out until it's time to retire.

And so, watching it every You're 23 years old, brother. Your your rods and cones are going to fall out of your eyes if you watch it that close over the next 30 years, okay?

>> Mhm. >> And so, I do check it. I do pay attention to it. I have a SmartInvestor Pro that I work with, but man, I just don't watch it on a week-by-week, month-by-month basis because I know I'm an anxious guy. I know I can get really

up when things are up and really down when things are down. And it it's You said it on a roller coaster, man. It's going to go up and it's go to go down. And if the last 100 years is any indication, it will it will eventually tick and and and move its way up, but let it do its thing, okay?

>> Okay. And one last thing. Uh >> Hold on. Jade's going to walk you through the >> I was going to say >> some more details here. >> Um, okay, great. I just want to make sure and this is something I would check on because this is we might need this for your debt. Just double-check and see where it's housed. If it's housed inside of a Roth IRA, if it's h- inside of a

um anything that is a retirement account, maybe a traditional IRA, you can't touch it. But, if it's just sitting there in a brokerage account, you can.

And we would use it for debt because at that point it's there's not going to be a penalty if you were to remove it. But, just double-check that because if it's just sitting there in a brokerage account, that's great. That's money that's up for grabs.

Um >> And you can cash it out to pay off this $50,000 hole you're in. >> Yeah, exactly. So, you've got $50,000

uh dollars in debt. What kind of debt is that?

>> Uh well, 5,000 of it is in credit cards

cuz I was Like I said, I was stupid with my money. But, uh about a week before I started listening to you guys' show, I went out and bought a brand new truck.

>> Okay. >> That's way stupider than the credit cards.

>> Yeah, it's 45. >> What's it worth?

>> Uh well, uh brand new off the lot right now, it's probably worth around 30. >> No, no, no. If you turned around and sell your car today, you'd only get 30 for it? >> Uh that's just what Kelly Blue Book says.

>> What about private sale? >> sale?

I could probably get around 37 for it.

>> Okay, 37. So, your goal Your goal is to figure out like how are we going to get another $8,000 to clear

this debt?

And not only that, but how can I get another, I don't know, 10,000 or another

8,000 that I'm going to get kind of like a junker truck that I'm going to drive around for a little while, and it's going to remind me that I'm never going to go into debt again because it sucks to drive an $8,000 truck.

You know what I'm saying? So, what I would do if I were in your shoes because what I did here, the $8,000 clears you from being upside down. That way you can sell the car, get the title, transfer it, all of that. And then another $8,000 gets you on a ride.

That's $16,000.

$16,000 is a lot better than paying off $45,000. am I right?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. So, I'd go down to the credit union, I go down to the bank, or, you know, whatever you can do to get this money and get it on the best terms possible, and that becomes your new payment that you're paying off, the $16,000 loan instead of the $45,000 car.

And that, for anybody who's listening to this call right now, if you're a person who finds yourself upside down, that's how you get out of it. And you might think, I can't believe you would tell him to go pick up debt, but we're lowering the debt. We're going down in payment. So, that's thing one.

And in the meantime, while you're negotiating that transaction and you're finding a buyer and you're getting that personal loan, the next thing I want you to do is work so hard on paying off this $5,000 in credit card debt.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, that's like the nuts and bolts of how we're going to pay off this debt, but I want to run it back because two things that I want to cover with you that are tantamount to this entire thing taking place and actually working is you've got to do two things today. And if you don't do these two things, nothing that I tell you is going to work, okay?

>> Okay. >> So, if you have something to write with, write this down. Number one, today,

you have to go into the nearest mirror, Windex it off so you can see yourself very clearly in it, and look in your own eyes and tell yourself, "I'm never borrowing money again.

I'm not a person who borrows money." Yeah. >> do that. >> Because you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it. So, if you keep paying off debt and then borrowing more debt, you're just going to be a dog chasing its tail. So, you look at yourself, "I'm not borrowing money." The second thing you do today, you got to download a budget.

We'll give you EveryDollar, which is the best budgeting app out there. It's not just a budgeting app, it also has our plan for how you're going to do all this. You got to download EveryDollar, and that is going to become your new BFF in your pocket, cuz it's on your phone.

>> Okay. >> That's it. And if you can do those two things, you're going to be able to walk out the rest of this, no problem.

>> Do you have the courage to sell your truck and just get done with this thing?

Yes, I I didn't know if I should

pay it down to where, you know, I'm not upside down and then get rid of it, or should I just get rid of it now?

>> I think you should get rid of it now, because it's going to free up the money that you need to quickly pay off this credit card. And I think every day that you wait, it's going to go down in value.

>> depreciate. Do you know what that means?

>> Yeah, it means loses value. >> Yeah, it loses value every minute you drive it. >> And also, I think I don't know, but I feel like the summertime could be a nice time to buy a truck.

>> I don't know, maybe. >> you put it out, I'm just saying, if you're selling something private sale, it's a lot nicer to roll up in the summertime when the num- when when the weather's nice, versus in the winter when it's covered in snow and it's dirty from the ice and all that stuff. I just made that up, but I'm just saying that could be good, but let me go back and teach you a little bit about the budget.

You need the budget. The budget is a plan for your money. It's where you're going to fill in your income and your expenses, and you're going to tell every dollar what to do. That's the whole point. So, if you make $5,000 a month, you're going to assign $5,000 an assignment.

>> That's it for the Ramsey show today.

Thanks for being with us. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 157. Stop Looking For The Financial Shortcut—Start Doing the Work | December 9, 2025


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wall, number one bestselling author. Ramsay personality is my co-host today. open phones here at88255225.

Nicole is in Boston. Hi Nicole, how are you? >> Hello, I'm well. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

Um, I'm in the situation where I very much want to trust my husband's judgment on finances and our future, but we've hit like a rocky patch here where uh we just keep well, he just keeps kind of

digging us into more and more debt in the in like the hopes that we'll get out of it one day with some just risky real

estate world stuff.

>> And I don't know how to dig ourselves out of that and like maintain respectful marital boundaries doing that. And I don't know, I just my opinion kind of gets thrown aside because I'm not as risky. I don't want to take risks. I'm not >> Well, it's not the risk. It's the get-rich quick, right?

>> The get-rich quick. I'm not a fan of that strategy. >> Yeah. So, here's the deal. You're not called to respect your husband if every time he gets in a car, he drives it into a ditch.

You go, you suck at driving.

>> That's not disrespectful of your husband as a husband. It's disrespectful of his driving ability because he sucks at driving. So don't get this confused that somehow respect is I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to idiocy.

That's not respect. That's just that's just enabling.

Then when you give respect and and you give a compliment for something that he actually does right, we don't know if it's real cuz you also endorse stupid stuff by calling and call it respect.

>> No. No. He can't drive a car. He keeps running in the ditch. Honey, you need driving lessons and I'm not riding with your butt until you learn how to drive.

You suck at driving. That's not really I mean some version of that nicer than that is not disrespectful.

That's not disrespecting the position of that you love your man, you love your husband, you think he's a good guy. It's just he sucks at driving, >> telling him the truth. And even a good friend would do that >> and he sucks at handling money.

His his his his uh his views of money are broken. So, uh, that's how you balance it. You don't balance it. You get you're gotten confused about what respect means. It doesn't mean turning a blind eye to misbehavior or incompetence. That's not respect.

>> So, tell us what he's what hole you're in and what he's thinking of doing next to get out.

>> Yeah. I'm So, it's this week that this would be happening and my answer is like I I don't want to do this. And so, and he his opinion is we have to do this.

And so, that's why I'm so glad you took my call. Um, our hole that we're in is that he has a very problematic property.

It's always been a problem property and it always takes the cash flow of my small business and his other cash flowing property. But it's hit the point now where we have to max out credit cards, which is against my everything, to basically use those as to pay for all of the construction, all the things. And now it hit a point where the threshold's so high, we have to take out uh a bigger

loan to just cover everything to try and get it to sell. >> How many properties how many properties do you have total?

>> We now have three and we've been trying to get rid of this one for a while.

>> It's just a troublesome property.

>> What do you owe on it?

>> Uh $6 million.

>> And what's it worth? Uh, it just got

appraised at like like just over six.

Not much though. >> Is it residential or is it >> uh commercial? >> It's an apartment complex residential.

>> Yeah. And so um

you you can't sell it for what you owe on it.

>> We we can sell it. It's it just takes so

long to sell them. Like it's always takes over a year to like get the packages put together. So, so he says, like again, I I'm not in this world. I don't know what this all really means.

Which is why I wanted to ask like if we just walked away from this mortgage and said, "Here, take it." Like, we're not personally liable for it. It's business liability. >> Yeah, but that's you. >> No, I'm not doing it. Are you sure you're not personally liable for it?

>> I am. I'm 90% sure.

>> I'm not. >> Okay. Again, this is why I you guys. I don't know what I >> They make They make non-reourse loans, but seldom as small as $6 million. If it's a nonreourse loan and you're going to walk away from it, yeah, I just walk away from it because it's not worth what you owe on it. >> If it's a non-reourse loan, put the keys in a shoe box and tell them to come get them. >> Um, but I don't think it is. I I want you to be sure you're not personally liable.

Just because it's in an LLC doesn't mean he didn't sign it personally.

>> Yeah, I'm I think it's a non-reourse loan, but I can be sure before I did that. But >> but if if if your if your numbers are correct, >> okay, if it's an $8 million property, it's going to take a little while to sell it, then let's sell it for 7 million or seven or six and a half and get a little bit out of it and sell it.

But if your numbers are correct that it's worth what you owe on it, and your only option to keep the thing running is to go deeper in debt again and this time personally in order to fix up this property. Um >> yeah, that's the option.

>> No, I'm not doing that. Um, it's good money after bad is what you're thinking.

And I am too, but I don't know that. You know, I want you to verify the numbers.

And, >> um, I'm not sure if you're just pissed off or if that's the real numbers. So, >> those are real numbers. >> I want you to get in there. Well, I want I want him to say it.

>> Yeah. Cuz what if happens if you tell them, "Hey, I want to start the process of of selling this today. I don't want to do >> I'm not I'm not going to borrow money on it." No, we're not that. Okay, that's off the table.

Now, what are we going to do? We're either going to give it back or we're going to sell it as is. What are we going Which one are we going to do? Well, we can't give it back.

I did sign personally. Oh crap. Now, then you got to sell it, right? Because you're going to get your butt sued.

>> So, uh but if you if it's a non if it's a non-reourse and it truly is worth six before I put another million into this sinkhole. Yeah.

income property and it's a pain in the butt to manage. I can tell by the way you're talking about it. um you got a

bunch of crummy renters and it's not it's not a it's not a fun property to own. >> And by the way, if you say your opinion on this and and do what Dave said and your husband says that that doesn't matter and he goes ahead and does what he wants to do, that's also your signal that you guys need help beyond this is no longer a a money problem at that point, right? >> Yeah. We don't do big deals. We don't do deals of size, whatever size is at the

Ramsy's without both being in agreement.

Period. And at the washoffs as well.

Fact. >> You know, I mean, we we don't give we don't give large sums to a charity or a ministry. We don't buy things of size uh

without talking about it. And the things that we buy that aren't of size, we have talked about it in the form of it's a category and a budget, so it fits. And so, you know, um you can buy that beef tenderloin. It's in the food budget, but that's, you know, whatever. So, um, but

because yeah, that that that's the whole thing. So, Nicole, the deal is this. You guys are running on two different tracks and you need to get on the same track. That's first and foremost.

As far as the particular property goes, then that if you get on the same track, that'll better inform what to do with the property >> and you'll feel better about if you decide to keep it and work it >> and you use some of the cash flow. But so far, it's not been a blessing, it's been a curse.

what their spouse is saying.

>> I don't know. Art we're we're hillbillies, so arguing is an art form.

So I I don't know. Um, I mean, we

I I do not think my wife is a bad Christian wife because sometimes she looks at me and goes, "No, I don't like that." >> Absolutely. >> That means like she's a full- grown woman with an opinion is all that means.

>> That's right. >> Hello.

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Brett is in Flint, Michigan. Hey Brett, how are you?

>> I'm all right. >> Good. How can I help?

So, my between my wife and I, um, we've

got approximately 250 or under $250,000 in debt.

Um, most of it will resides in our

mortgage and her student loans.

Is it I'm I'm I had a weird childhood,

so I'm kind of really terrified of being homeless again. Mhm.

>> Is it stupid to pay off the mortgage before the student loans? I know you can't like bankruptcy the student loans and you can sell the house and that kind of stuff, but >> it's not stupid. I I would not categories categorize either idea of paying off the debt as stupid. I think it's smart that you're thinking in those terms of being debtree. Can you tell us

uh how much of the 250 is the mortgage and how much of it is the student loans?

Um they're honestly both about 108.

>> Okay. >> And then we've got um I've got a small

personal loan cuz my mower on my

business kind of crapped out. So I had to spend a bunch of money just so I could fix that. >> Got you. >> Um that's about 2,900.

>> Okay. >> Um we're trying to sell the trailer that we were living in.

But we've got about 700 left on the personal loan for that.

>> Okay. Where what else do you have?

>> Like 4,000 on the card. And that's

>> what you were living in a mobile home before.

>> Uh yeah. >> Okay. And what what is it up for sale for?

>> Um we're trying We have it up for sale for 40 right now. We haven't really had too much interest for how much. We're talking to uh 40. A lot of the play

trailers in the park that we're going for are selling for like 66 60 to 66.

>> What do you owe on it?

>> Um we only owe 700 more on that.

>> $700. >> Um we still have >> Yeah. >> And how long has it been for sale?

>> Um two or three months.

>> Okay. Have you had nibbles?

>> In October. So roughly then.

>> Had nibbles?

>> Not really. No. I also don't think our realtor is really trying too hard to sell it either. >> I think you need a new real estate agent. I think you need a realistic price and I think you need to get rid of that dad gum thing yesterday. That cleans up a whole bunch of stuff, man.

Even if you took 30 for it.

>> Mhm. >> It puts 30,000 towards all this debt, right? >> That's kind of the goal is to get it.

>> What's your household income?

>> Um my wife's is consistently at about

60. Uh, my business kind of fluctuates.

So, I'd say roughly between like

25 uh and >> 25. >> What kind of work? What kind of business? >> Wait, you make $25,000 a year?

>> Uh, I I do Well, that's just with the

business because it runs um just partially it's lawnmowing. So then during the winter I was doing snow plowing last year. Um but my truck for

the plowing kind of crapped out on me.

So now um I just got a job

>> um for the winter. I'm looking for another job right now also.

But that that job's only like 15 an hour. >> Okay. So you're you're making$25 or $30,000 a year and she's making 60.

>> Yes. Okay. All right. And and your business is not doing that well.

>> Um, no. This year was a little rough and

weird. My sole employee, his sister, got

married out of the country. He told me about it a while in advance, but um,

just because the time period, I couldn't take on more work, so that way I didn't destroy what reputation I had by not showing up. But by the time he >> Yeah. So hire somebody and fire him if he's not going to be at work.

>> Get somebody Get somebody comes to work.

>> Well, it was only for that like >> Well, you it destroyed your business.

>> It your business is that freaking fragile. Don't defend it. The guy don't

come to work and it messes up your whole summer. You got to get somebody to come to work, man. You got to get through You got to get this thing in gear. You your business sucks.

You are not making any money. You're starving to death. You're making a dollar an hour and you're working your legs off. So, you got to get that profitability up this coming year or you got to go get like a real job and shut this thing down because you're not making any money.

So, let me ask you this. So, can we classify the fact that you were homeless as a child as trauma?

>> Yes. >> It was traumatic, not just dramatic. >> Yeah. >> So, so that's what makes you think about losing your home and wanting to pay it off before you pay off all this other stuff, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, what happened when you were a child has no bearing on what happens

to you as an adult unless you repeat exactly the same patterns.

And so Dr. Deloney says he does a lot of trauma work. John Deloney that's on the air here with us. He says, "When you've had trauma and your body starts thinking

you're right back there again and your your shoulders raise up and tense, you get tense across the neck and your heartbeat changes and your your eyes start to dilate because it feels like it felt when you were a kid, but nothing like your when you were a kid was going on, then you need to stop and say, "Facts are your friends." The facts are

that you two make close to $100,000 a

year in Flint, Michigan. The facts are you only have $108,000 owed on your mortgage. Very reasonable. The facts are

you've been struggling at your business and it's not doing great, but you do have a good solid income. You're not going to be homeless.

That is an irrational fear.

And we don't act on and we don't make plans based on irrational fears.

That's not wisdom.

So, no, you need to list your debts smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Kick your business in the butt and get it running. And if you don't have employees that show up and don't work, get you some more >> and get this thing going.

>> And and let's, you know, and and let's get the truck fixed and snowplowing.

Let's get the the lawnmower fixed without going into debt to do it. And let's keep this stuff going. Let's start making some money. start stacking some cash and knocking this stuff out left and right, left and right, left and right. And being proactive and playing offense and playing for the Super Bowl instead of going, "No, I think we're all gonna die. We're not gonna die." >> Brett, do you have a budget?

>> Nope.

>> Then we'll send you one today. Okay.

We're going to get you started with every dollar because you're going to need that in order to know how much margin you're putting at the smallest debt, which looks like it's 4,000 on credit cards. That's your first one. But you're not going to do it if you don't know how much to put towards it. And every dollar is going to help you do that.

>> What I would do, Brett, is this.

And what I the way we chose to look at that was we will never be here again

>> because we are going to analyze how we got here and repeat exactly zero of those steps. Never again. That became our mantra. We wanted t-shirts printed.

Never again is American Express going to call my house unless it's a wrong number. >> Right? >> I hate those people. Never again am I doing business with a large bank, one of these super banks. They will slit your throat and watch you bleed out and call it sport. Never again am I going to be beholden to idiots and buttholes like I was. Never again am I going to be So that's what you do. You look back at your childhood and you go, "Never again.

And I'm going to get on a budget and we're going to get out of debt and we're going to work like maniacs, work six jobs, we're going to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. Never again

are we even going to be close to homeless and quit borrowing money. It puts you back in that mode again. Never again." And you know, you can use the trauma, use the terrifying experience as

fuel to never be there again. A and so,

or you can sit and go, we're doomed to repeat this. Now, you're not doomed to repeat it unless you repeat, you know, the same unless you repeat the same habits that put your parents there. That's right. Which, by the way, was borrowing a bunch of dad gum money was one of the things I did.

>> Well, that's what I was going to say. The reason he's feeling that way, it the the reason those alarm bells are going off is cuz he is. He's doing things that he knows he shouldn't be doing and he's starting to feel the effect of it. So, he needs to listen to what his body is telling him, which is, "Dude, you're running.

You're about to run off a cliff." >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.

That's a warning sign. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Stop it.

Never again.

Never again. Never again will I be

there. No thank you. You don't have anything I want badly enough to go into debt to get it to put one of you idiot bankers in my life. Never again. Never

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Well, if you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money, trust me, you're not alone. It's not because you aren't disciplined and you aren't inconsistent. It's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. Emotions are part of the program.

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It's kind of like that guy we were talking to a minute ago. >> That's right. >> He needs a new system.

Needs a new way to handle the emotions.

That's right. Of his childhood. >> Yep. He was stuck in stuck in fear.

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It'll make your new year better. Aaron is with us in Colorado Springs. Hey Aaron, how are you?

>> I'm having a a day. How are you doing Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so for the past three years, um I've

had a lot of issues with the IRS. and uh

the Colorado uh Department of Revenue.

Uh my former employer that I worked with for 27 years, somehow my social security

number got tied to their Shopify account. And the Feds as well as uh Car

State have been coming at me for the last three years on back income tax that I owe them. And uh today I received

notification um I apologize. They're going to start garnishing my wages and I'm just in a tough spot and I've

reached out to my former employer multiple times to try to fix this and they've done nothing to uh to help me.

>> So what does the IRS say you owe them?

>> Over $180,000. What does the Colorado state say you owe?

>> Uh right now they're saying $13,000 and

some change.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> But the 13,000 >> What do you make a year from?

>> Uh right now I'm making about 130k.

>> Okay. Were you a a partner in the former business in any way?

>> I was not. >> You were simply a W2 employee.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, dude, you need to hire an attorney.

That's what I keep on thinking. I just try to >> No, today you should have called them before you called us. You need to get a tax attorney, someone that does taxes, >> and they need to call the uh Colorado and say, "Look, if if you garnish this guy, we're going to sue you for $20 million >> because it's not his debt. It's a clerical error, right? >> And you can't garnish him. There's nothing to be afraid of, honey. You don't know the money.

It's not your money. You didn't you don't know it. It's it's an error by your former employer and you're probably going to have to sue them. Get them off their butt, too. But joyful joyful, light some people up, baby.

>> I know. I I contacted a a tax attorney

about 6 months ago cuz I I I put a lot

of faith in this uh business here in Colorado Springs cuz I you know, they're a Christian business and you know, when

I talked to the tax attorney, they're like, "Well, it's going to cost you $6,000 out of pocket for us to do And I was like, I just can't afford that. I don't >> You can't afford not to do it cuz Colorado's getting ready to take $6,000 out of your butt any minute.

>> Yeah. >> You may as well give it to an attorney and fight back

>> yesterday. Why did you wait 6 months?

>> Oh, >> did you think this was just going to go away, honey?

>> No. I I I honestly The IRS keeps on

sending me notices saying that they're working on it and that they need more time. No, you wait a minute. You You actually Here's what just came out of your mouth. You just said the IRS is competent.

>> That's hilarious.

>> That's a funny joke. >> And that they're going to investigate this for you. >> The the IRS is going to help you.

Come on, man. Really? You know who's going to help you? You starting today.

So either call that tax attorney back or get a new one. And you need to that somebody needs to be in touch by the close of business with Colorado so they don't start garnishing your dad gum wages, man. Because here's what you get for doing nothing. Somebody will do stuff to you. You can't do nothing.

Nothing is not one of your options. That strategy sucks.

So either call either call that tax attorney back or get online at Ramsey Solutions, find one of our tax pros in the area and have them make a recommendation. You need legal representation by the close of business today. They need to be in touch with somebody and say, "Hold on, Junior. This guy does not owe any money. This is a clerical error. And if it can't get fixed by working directly with the tax institutions, you may have to sue your good Christian former employer who can't seem to help you get rid of $180,000.

That does not qualify as good Christian, by the way. Hello.

>> Amen. >> Pissing on your employees does not qualify.

>> Hello. >> Well, thank you, Dave. I I I hear you. I appreciate it.

>> You need to be the hero of the story, not the victim. Mhm. >> Get up and get them cuz this is not going it's not going to fix itself, man.

>> Okay. It's not This is not There's no There's no There's no uh tooth fairy that's going to land in here that the tax fairy is not going to come visit you and fix this. You're you're going to have to be like a grown-up and go attack this situation with a vengeance.

Otherwise, it's going to take you down because you don't want to screw around with the IRS for the next decade.

>> Yeah. And they're wrong. You're in the position of power. You're right. You have the information. I just feel like your your countenance is very low. As

though everybody else knows more than >> as if you have no options. You're the one with all the options.

>> But listen, you hire an attorney who gets excited about this. Not one who's like, I don't know what we're going to do. If that's the attorney, fire them before you hire them. You want an attorney gets mad like I am right now.

>> Oh, I appreciate that, Dave, more than you know. and your your book changed my life and made me a believer. I want you to know that. >> Well, I appreciate that. Hey, hit this thing right in the nose and see if it'll bleed. Okay.

>> I will. >> Yeah. Knock it down. Knock it down. This is This been Listen, this has owned you.

Every waking moment for the last year, hadn't it?

>> The last three years. >> You need free. You need to be free from this. And the only one's going to set you free is you with action. Okay. So get on Ramsey

Solutions, talk to one of our tax pros in the area. Tell them what your situation is and you tell them I'm fired up about it. Said Dave's fired up about this, >> okay? And get me an attorney that's fired up.

>> You want an attorney that even you don't really like. >> That's that's the kind of attorney you want, okay? You want one that pisses off everybody because that's his job as an attack dog. Sick them. All right. Her

job, whatever. Get it. And that that's man she >> that's crazy. He's letting these the IRS

could care less. Number one, >> none of these people could care less. >> No one is become incompetent bureaucrats.

>> No one is. Yeah. No one's thinking about this. He's >> including the former employer. How embarrassing. If we accidentally did that to one of our people here, I would be I would be so embarrassed that I would have fixed it in 20 seconds.

>> Yeah. And somebody would have got fired.

>> Yeah. Hello. Wow, >> man. Wow. >> Well, not not if it was an honest mistake, but it goes on a long time.

>> $180,000, too. >> He's been losing sleep for three years.

>> This is not like we didn't sell like two paintings on Shopify here. This is like there's something big going down here.

Wow. >> Wow.

>> Oh, man. >> If you want something done, sometimes you just got to do it yourself, Dave.

No. Every time. >> Can't be waiting around for these fools.

every time you got to do it yourself. When you guys listen, when you know something's wrong and you kick it, you you put you kick it up under the rug.

Kick it up under the rug. You know what you get? Lumpy rug. That's what you get.

And these things have a high rate of resurrection. Like a 100% chance it's going to resurrect. It looks like a zombie when it comes out from under the rug. Now, go ahead and kill it now so you don't have to deal with it later.

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>> John is in New Hampshire. Hey, John. How are you?

>> I am doing good Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my main concern is of retirement. I

am 47 years old and I was laid off from

my job in early December of last year. I don't have anything in retirement. I had to kind of use the retirement I had to

survive until I was able to get a new job. >> Have you gotten a new job? >> I have a new job now. >> Yes, I have not. I have a job now. I started in Yeah. Um I'm making 80 a

year. >> Good. And I'm also in the process of interviewing for a better job that if I get it will be about 110ish.

>> Wow. >> Here. >> Great.

>> Yeah, that's all good. Um, but I have nothing in retirement and I've got some debt and I live with family right now.

So, between needing to get a house of my own and retirement >> Mhm. >> getting out of debt, I'm just kind of worried and not sure what the best way to accomplish all that is.

>> Gotcha. >> Especially at 47. >> You're single?

>> Yes, single, no kids. >> How much debt?

>> Total debt 52. Just over 52.

>> On what? >> Thousand.

Uh, that is a mix of credit cards and then two vehicles. And I know one vehicle is a motorcycle that needs to just go away. I understand that. >> How much do you owe on the motorcycle?

>> 288 >> 28,000. >> Holy smokes. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, that's half your debt.

>> Wow. Okay. And how much do you owe on your car?

>> Uh, just over 9,000.

>> Okay. That's good news. >> I've been long. There's not much.

>> Okay. So that's uh 30 37. So what? And

you got 20 on credit cards?

>> Uh 14. >> 14. Okay, cool. Any other debt that I'm missing?

>> Uh no, I believe that covers everything.

Um just normal things that are monthtomonth like insurance and >> Yeah. >> couple streaming services.

>> Okay. All right. Well, I mean the

glaring thing is the motorcycle, isn't it? Obviously, >> right? >> Yeah. So, it's half your debt and it's not needed and >> all that. So, yeah, that thing you need to get that sold before Christmas. Somebody needs a new Christmas present with your motorcycle.

>> So, with the loan >> No, I wasn't kidding, man. I mean, really, you need to get rid of this stinking motorcycle right now.

>> With the loan that I have on it, obviously, nobody's going to pay more than what the what the bike's worth more than they can and just buy a new >> It's worth about 25.

>> Okay. All right. >> 24ish. Not not a lot left.

>> So, who do you owe the 28 to?

>> That is America.

Uh, what is it? American.

It's a credit union. >> Oh, good. Okay. Well, swing down. Is it local branch there?

>> No, I I recently in April moved to New

Hampshire from Vegas. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Call call the credit union back at the hometown and say, "Hey guys, um, I'm upside down three grand on this motorcycle. I got to get the thing sold. I need to sign a note for the difference.

Okay, >> I'm going to send you 25 and sign a note for the difference and y'all need to release the title.

>> Okay, >> get that get that arranged with your they'll do it with your man get them credit union manager on the phone and then you just sign whatever it brings.

You send them all the money >> and then you sign a note for the difference. Now we're down to 3,000. Okay, that's good. That's gone quickly.

Quickly, >> this is like glaring bad thing right here. Out of all your stuff, nothing's really stupid except that one and that was like super stupid right there. Okay.

So now >> then then you're going to get an apartment the cheapest you can possibly get and be out on your own again like a grown man making 110,000 80,000 or whatever you're going to be making and >> somewhere in between. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and then we're going to clean up this debt and we're going to build an emergency fund and then we're going to starting money away and you're going to be a millionaire when you retire. >> Is that okay?

>> So it's not too late at 47.

>> No, it's not too late in retirement.

>> I'm 65. That's so insulting. That's your That's your homework. That's your homework. When you get off this call, I already played around with the numbers for you, but I want you to do it for yourself. If you're going to be making $110,000 a year, you know, taking home

around seven, you invest 15% of that, a,000 bucks a month, 1,50, and that's assuming you're never going to increase your income, which is false. You're going to keep getting better and better. But even if you did a,000 bucks a month for the next 20 years, you're going to get really close to a million bucks and you're going to do better than that. Right.

Right. So I want to get that job. I'm in the middle of the >> You're going to get the job. And if you don't get that job, you'll get another job. >> You've already got one. Making 80, >> right? >> Okay. Just you and take three more extra jobs until you get the until you get the new job. Just work all time, man. Clean up his mess. >> You need to look You need to look at the future because looking at the future is going to motivate what you do right now.

Because if you look at that number and you say, you know what, that's not good enough. Then that's going to motivate what you do with your income going forward, right? Yep.

>> Right. >> You can play around and say, "Well, what does it look like if I invest 1,500?

What does it look like if I invest 1,800?" Right? And that's going to inform what you do today. Same thing with the debt. Plug it into every dollar. See how long it's going to take currently. And if you're not happy with that, you get to change that. You get to side hustle. The good news for you is you're single and unattached and you're at your sister's house. So, you need to be working like 20 hours a day

>> time. Yeah. You won't you won't die from hard work right before you die. You'll pass out. >> So just work all the time. My

grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke. Go work.

>> I want you working, working, working, working, working. What's my name? I'm working John. That's all I do. I work. I get out of debt. I'm building wealth cuz I'm 47 and I don't want to retire and eat dog food. I'm working working. And you you'll get this mess cleaned up.

You'll have an emergency fund. You'll start to feel better and the lights will come on because right now they're a little dim.

your your hope the hope that's not in your voice is bothering me more than your numbers. >> And the reason that Dave and I sound the way we sound is because we hear every day people doing this and they're successful and they turn it around and we know that you can too. >> You can do this, John. So, we're going to put you on the upgraded version of Every Dollar.

Hang on. We'll have Christian pick up and take care of you and get you on the budget. But get the motorcycle sold. Get five extra jobs or three extra jobs and work and work.

and John, that's your name, man. And uh we're going to list our debts, smallest to largest. We're going to attack them with a vengeance. We're going to get those credit cards out tonight.

Light a candle and have a placectomy party.

Let's move on. It's time to do something different. So, if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. The last thing you want to do is be calling me at 57 living at your sister's house broke. >> So, let's get after it and fix it now.

Time to do it. You can do it. You can do it. And you're right, Jay. The beautiful thing is you and I have the

unbelievable honor of getting to meet heroes every day who looked in the mirror and said, "Time to change something >> and and didn't wait around on >> That's right. >> You know, they weren't they weren't sitting they weren't they weren't watching the news." That's right. They were working. >> Yeah. And many of them uh in a worse situation than John >> Much worse. So the time the time is and

a guy like him, you got to remember the time is going to pass anyway. The time between now and him retiring, right? God willing. >> And he gets to choose what he's going to do with that time. He can be the same, worse off, or better. >> And and those are your three options.

And >> and here's what's weird. If you absolutely I mean, we we're poking fun a little bit at it, but if you work like a crazy person, like ridiculous hours, >> you work like no one else, later you can work like no one else. >> That's right. That's right.

>> You know, when I work kind of when I want to. Hello. You know, and that's because I got financial peace a long time ago. >> Yeah.

>> And I I don't owe any of these stupid banks. They're not calling me up. I don't have, you know, all this stuff coming at me that I can't handle.

It's just I built a life that said, "Yeah, >> I'm not going to be beholden to you people that are screwing everybody. You car companies." I mean, who loans a guy $28,000 on a motorcycle who lives at his

sisters? I mean, come on.

>> WELL, TO BE FAIR, I DON'T THINK he lived at his sisters yet. >> That's a banker ought to have his butt kicked up around his neck. Oh my god.

Seriously. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And guess what? The motorcycle went down in value. Oh, I'm so shocked.

So, yeah. The good news about him though, I mean, John's got it made half his dad gum problem is one stroke.

>> Yeah. >> One stroke. >> Yep. and the fact that he didn't have a job for forever and that's not >> messed him up. Yeah. Well, that that's got what got the credit card debt.

>> Yep. Sure is.

>> So, this is guys, you can do this stuff.

But listen, I if if you want a different result, you have to put in a different recipe.

If you get if you keep baking a cake and it keeps turning out vanilla and you wanted chocolate, you need to change the recipe. Hello. You keep doing the same thing over and over again, expect a different result. That's the definition of insanity.

That's what the 12stepers say, and they're right. Don't keep doing the same thing over and over. I just can't seem to get ahead. Well, then quit doing the same dad gum stuff.

Hello. You got to change something. Throw some dynamite in the middle of it. Let's bust this thing up, man.

It's time, boys and girls.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. CeCe is with us in Cleveland. Hey Cece, what's up?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> So, um, can you hear me?

>> Yes, ma'am.

Okay, so I'm 27 and I'm in dental

assisting schools and I also own an online boutique, but I'm starting to pay

for my mistakes I made when I was younger and they were terrible. Like I'm

$40,000 in debt >> and I'm like I don't know what.

>> So half is from my car, a Honda Civic.

I'm financing it. So 20K is >> So you owe 20,000 on your car.

Yes. And then I was so young.

>> I was young and dumb and I decided to lease a Mercedes at like 23 years old.

And when I returned the lease, the wear and tear, the miles and all of that, I still have to pay for that. So that's about $10,000.

>> And how how long ago was that?

>> That was I returned that car in 2023.

>> Okay. So they're not happy with you.

Okay. >> All right. Two years ago. And um >> and and then what's what's the other that that that what's the other 10,000?

>> So I did take out a student loan for about 5,000 because I'm in dental school and fast paid for half. So I had to take out a loan. >> And then the other amount is just from

like personal loans and credit card, right? And I'm not working right now. I lost my job. So I'm like, should I file bankruptcy or should I just drop out of school and just >> What are you in school for? $5,000. I

don't understand >> for dental assisting. So >> dental assist,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I never knew any dentist that went to school for five grand. Okay. >> So you paid three out of pocket and got a loan for the other five.

>> Well, Fastwood pays for the three and then I had to get a loan for the other.

>> Okay. And what what what were you doing that you just got fired from?

>> Well, I didn't get fired. I decided that I was going to quit my job and run my business. >> Oh. How much? Because your business is bringing in a lot of income.

>> It was until I quit my job and start having to pay my rent with the money I made from my online business.

>> Okay. What are you making from the online business >> right now? I'm not making anything because I just put it on pause. But I was making about 300.

>> Why are you stopping? >> Why are you stopping all the things that make money? This is so illogical.

because it's so hard to juggle school

and running a business and it's like I'm >> You're not running a business. You stopped it.

>> Well, it was before I stopped it. Before

I stopped it, it was hard because

>> now listen. Okay, hear me out.

>> I pro I start using it to pay my rent

and my car and all of my insurance. So, it's like now I drop because I'm using >> Okay, let me let me go back. Let me go back. So, you're a student. You're a full-time student. Can you work at least

part-time at the very least? Because you got to live cuz what's the other option?

Right? Cuz if you stop working at the other job, then you stop working at your business. What are your options? To put your lifestyle on credit, right? And that's what you've been doing.

>> Yes, I know. And it's not working.

>> I know. That's why I'm telling you, you got to go back and get >> the job that you quit. What were you making of the job you quit?

So, I was a correctional officer for about three years and I was making about 4,000 a month. But it's just I wasn't happy. And um >> And now you're really not happy because you don't have $4,000 a month. >> Yes. Cuz I'm broke. >> Yeah. So, here's what you need to do.

You need to go get a job. Any job.

>> So, here's the thing. Hear me out. I got an offer at the post office. Um and they pay a pretty nice amount. It's just I'm scared it won't work with school. Like, should I >> So, so quit school. You need money.

>> Uh CeCe, um >> you called me and asked me if you wanted to file bankruptcy. That was your question. And then you're telling me you don't want to work and you want to go to school.

>> Wrong answer.

>> Is it just Is it just you, Cece? It's just you.

>> Yes, it's just me. I've been doing everything since I was like 17.

>> And you're living by yourself or are you living with someone, a roommate, or is it just you? >> No, I'm by myself.

>> Okay. You gota you got to do this. And

the good news is and I told the other guy this who called in. It's just you.

You don't have to get home to a kid, to a husband, to a grandma you're taking care of. It's just you. So you all you this is time management. This is the problem. Time management and you understanding that this is going to be hard for a season. How much do you uh how much time left in school?

>> I graduate in June. That's why I don't want to quit. >> Okay. Then then stay then stay in school and work full-time >> and let you >> for six whole months.

That's it. And let your goal just be I'm working and I'm going to school and I'm paying my rent and I'm just doing these what I'm going to call just typical adulting tasks. I work >> I go to school. I pay my bills and that's it. >> So ch something's going to be hard. The

wise person chooses the hard thing they

want to do instead of the hard thing happening to them. You're going to have something that's painful and hard.

Ready, set, go. Now, you decide which one you want it to be. Now, I would rather be tired and a wee bit stressed from working all day and going to school than as broke as you are and scared as you are. That's hard.

>> So, I would choose not to be where you are and choose to work full-time and go to school like a crazy girl and then get out in June and go live your best life.

>> Yeah. Let's talk realistically about your schedule when you do the dent dental assistant thing. How is it daytime? Are you going at night? How does it work?

>> So, right now I'm in night school.

That's the thing that's stopping me from finding a great job >> that that you're at night. >> 5 to 9. Yeah. 5 What time is the post

office job?

>> So, I start Monday and it says 8 a.m.

>> Uhhuh. Perfect. Um, someone told me that the post office you could work 12 hours a day, six days a week, and that's why I'm scared.

>> I told you something. >> If you start at 8:00 a.m., you want to know when you're probably off work?

>> Three. >> Four. Four at the latest, which means you can hop over there and get to your class at 5:00. You can grab a bite to eat.

>> Don't Don't do this because >> somebody told >> because somebody told you. Because do you want to know what that tells me? I'm going to tell you. I'm I'm being your friend right now.

If an excuse that's that vague is enough to make you stop, it's cuz you don't want to do it to begin with.

That's what that tells me. So, you have to want this for yourself. CeCe, I'm looking at the numbers. I'm looking at the schedule. You can do this. You got the job. 8 to 4 max. Hop over there. Do

the school from 5:00 to 9:00. It's 6 months. Like Dave said, you can do this.

It's going to be hard, but you can do this. You you you this is you >> you have to want to do it.

>> Yeah. Choose your hard. Something's

going to be hard. Be a big girl and

decide which one you want it to be.

>> Do I want to be sitting here terrified, broke and but you can't just be randomly

walking out on stuff. You just go, I

don't think I want to work anymore. What the hell? >> It got too hard. Well, the pattern is here's the pattern.

It got each one of them got too hard. You were the corrections officer. It it was it's tough, man. It's mental load.

I can understand that probably is a tough job, but it got too tough. You left. Then you started doing the online business because that seemed easier. You did it for a while and you realized, oh, this is harder than I thought.

I'm having to use my profit. I can't invest my profit back in. I have to use some of it. It got hard.

You quit that. Now you have this job on the table that could really break you free. And you're thinking, you haven't even done it yet. You're just thinking it might be hard and you're about to bail on that.

CC, that's yours to break.

>> It's going to be hard. Buckle up, buttercup. It's going to be hard. It's going to be worth it. >> Suck it up. Go get it, girl. You can do this.

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So, one of the criticisms of Gen Z has been

that um and I disagree with it, by the way, um because I disagree with the premise, but I'll go ahead and lay it out there, is that generation Z, their

20s, um are not resilient.

>> Okay. >> You know, stick with it, do hard, do hard things >> as a as a generation. This is what people are saying. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's one of the criticisms that they don't they don't know how to do hard things >> and they don't they don't stick through and persevere >> and that is somewhat sometimes true. Our last caller as an example, right?

>> So no no question she didn't want to do hard things and you said you got to do hard things. If you live like no one else later you can live like no one else >> and um rejoice in your suffering the Bible says because suffering produces perseverance >> man. What? Yes. Keep going.

>> And perseverance character.

>> I've been talking about this D. >> And character hope. And hope is a gift

of the Holy Spirit. So yeah. Uh so there

there's a there's a lineage. There's a suffering creates perseverance for so >> maturity is what some of the versions say. >> Exactly. Exactly. So the um

the thing is what I what I have found is

um I mean we got about five 600 Gen Z's

working here on our team and they're the good ones. There's two kinds of Gen Z's.

Awesome and sucks, right? >> And we've got the awesome ones. You can get you can get the good ones. They they're good. when they're good, they're good. And they they're abundance thinkers. They they believe that anything's possible because they've carried around a magic wand in their hand their whole lives. And if they push a button, stuff happens.

>> And so the first time something does get hard, it's sometimes it's a lack of resilience. Sometimes it's a lack of perseverance. But sometimes it's like,

what's the point in doing something hard? Because there's probably a workaround. >> There's a lot of tools I can do it for you. >> There's something some way I can work around this and not have to go through that. Mh. >> And um that it's the way their mind it's the native nature of their minds. The way their minds have been programmed to live and it's really not a bad thing. I mean you cuz really you should stop and go is there an easier way to do this?

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> And it you know is there a workaround?

What's the hack? >> Right. And um >> work smarter not harder. >> What's smarter?

I mean why do I just keep running into this wall and call that perseverance? No, I should probably walk around the wall. Hello. Yeah.

And so um no me I'm just boom boom boom boom boom. you know, like a dad gum rhinoceros or something that's that's brain damaged. And so, no, you could just move over there and walk around. You don't have to hit the wall, dummy.

It's concrete. And so, but they're really good at looking for the workound and looking for the hack.

that has caused them to be accused of lack of resilience, and I think that's a wrong conclusion.

>> I I can agree with that. >> Now, sometimes there's a lack of resilience. There's a lack of per, you know, stick to it, push through. And and so really what this comes down to is if you're a Gen Z or if you're parents of

teenagers right now >> that are walking around with a magic wand, they do not know a world where

they can't push a but they've never experienced a world where they can't push a button and stuff shows up on their porch in 24 hours. >> Mhm. >> They don't. If you want to know what the temperature is, we used to have to go outside and look at the thermometer and we came back in and went, "It's cold." you know, now you just push the weather app, right?

Anything you want to know or anything you want to do is a magic wand in your hand. So, if you parents are doing that, what I suggest as a parenting thing because it's becomes a part of your their success principles that they're going to live their life from, teach your children to do hard things.

Yes. >> Put something in front of them that's hard. Mhm.

>> And 100% of the time that any of us are doing something we've never done before and it's hard. I'll tell you what rises up inside of you.

>> Frustration.

>> And then it can with me. I just get angry. >> Yeah. >> Not at someone, but I just get pissed off. I can't do it. I've never been able to do this. And it's, you know, trying to learn a thing with a sport, trying to hit the golf ball a certain way. Oh god.

Yeah. >> And I have to just stop and go, it doesn't matter. Okay. The secret to happiness is low expectations on the golf course, right? But the but persevere, push through, push through, push through until you get a callous.

Push through. Push through. Push through until your brain is tired. Your emotions

are tired.

Learn to do hard things. Those

that are 30 years old and under in the

next 25 years that know how to do hard

things will be running the country.

>> That's right. And Yes. Yes.

>> They'll be running the country.

>> And the rest of you that don't learn how to do hard things will be following them and doing what you're told >> like a bunch of sheeple.

>> And so learn to do hard things.

Marriage for 50 years is hard.

It's hard. And anyone tells you this is a cakewalk is a liar. Okay? There are

times that you want to kill each other.

Literally, I mean, I'm not talking metaphorically. I'm talking about I want to Yeah, >> you're right. >> And hide the body. You're right. There are times >> parenting is hard.

I mean, I now that I've got grandkids, I'm really glad I let them live, but there was a question a time or two whether they were going to live through this or not. You know, it's worth it. Go ahead, parents. Let them live cuz they'll bring you grandbabies and it's worth it. Let them live. Don't Don't kill them. But yeah, but man, >> this is making me feel way better about myself. >> It's hard. >> It's hard, y'all. Managing money and

saying no to yourself so that you can say yes later.

>> Tough >> is hard.

Not filling up the cart on Amazon and hitting submit is hard. I want it and I

work so hard. Oh, call the ambulance.

>> You work hard. Everybody works hard. You little whiner, you know. Oh my god.

That's the one that's inside. I'm a little drama queen. I work so hard. You don't work hard. You don't even know what hard work is. You've never done any hard work. Hard work is not never I work

hard. No, everybody.

>> That means you went to a building all day. That's all that means. >> Everybody does it. Yeah, everybody does it. >> There was no sweat involved.

>> Now that's a word. And you drove there

>> in the air conditioned car. I worked

hard. >> It's perspective.

>> So do some hard do some real things that are difficult. You know, our our friend uh Michael, what's his name? Esther.

>> Yeah. Easter. >> Easter. Easter. Is that right? wrote the book Comfort Crisis.

>> Yeah. Read Comfort Crisis.

>> We have a crisis in the culture because we become so we've worked so hard >> to become comfortable and now we're so comfortable we don't know how to do hard things. >> And you have to practice the hard things. That's like uh >> we have to go from our 72°ree kitchen to

our 72°ree garage to our 72°ree car to

our 72 degree office and we call that hard. >> No. And there really there's no starvation involved. There's no no one's hung I mean there there are some hungry people out there. I don't understand but I mean most of you listening to me right now you you know you got your $800 iPhone and you're not you know and you can't complain about you know living like you you live like 1% of the world top 1%. So it's do some hard things.

Those that know how to do hard things will always be leading those that don't.

>> And I also think there's just personal dignity in it. I mean, there's just certain things that it's good to do.

Even if you could do it easier, even if

you could have somebody else do, like, for instance, okay, it's it's winter, all the leaves are falling off. We could probably pay somebody to come clean up the leaves, >> but we have to teach our kids that it's good to do hard work. So, >> yeah, you can pick out stuff like that.

I didn't do all that, but I mean, I did.

>> Do you know what I'm saying? >> You know, you you've got to do the hard things. Whatever it is, it can be a mental challenge. It can be a physical challenge.

can be an emotional challenge. I don't want to go over there. She doesn't like me. Oh, well, tough. You know, learn to work with difficult people. They're everywhere. >> So, you might as well get used to that.

So, here's a plan.

>> Deal with that. She's mean. Oh, well, she's there's going to be a she's mean everywhere, believe me. So, you got to learn to handle them. And that's part of do hard things. Emotionally hard, physically hard, spiritually hard, whatever it is. Um, but the diligent are the ones that prosper. Diligent is excellence over time.

>> Diligent prosper. That's the Bible says that. Okay. And so you're going to prosper when you learn how to do hard things with excellence over time.

Because when you do the things that other people won't do, you'll always have the things that other people don't have.

Had dinner with my friends the other night. It's her 50th wedding anniversary.

They've done some things that most people won't do to get to that point.

>> They put up with some stuff off of each other to get to that point. >> Didn't commit murder. >> They didn't They didn't kill each other.

They threatened to. They didn't kill each other. It's worth it. It's worth it. They got some things that other people don't have.

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Google Play. Brad's in Greenville, South Carolina. Hey Brad, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So, I inherited about $450,000.

It's in >> it's in an IRA, an inherited IRA, so I have to pay taxes on it. Um, but I think I'll have enough to pay off the house

>> afterwards. >> I want to know if it's better to invest that or if it's better to pay the house off. H >> how um how much do you owe on your home?

>> Uh so 373.

>> Yeah, you would have. Yeah.

No, no, you won't either. It's gonna You're not going to get that much out of 450.

>> It's all taxable at ordinary income when you pull it out.

>> Yeah. >> It's going to put you in the top It's going to put you in the top tax bracket. So, it's 30%.

>> So, I'm pulling it out a little bit at a time. So, I'm going to do it over like a four or five year period to where I can stay in that 22% tax bracket.

>> Uh I don't think you're going to be in a 22% tax bracket if you do that. That's 100,000 a year. I don't think that's a 22% tax bracket.

>> So, it would be better to look at investing it. >> No, that wasn't what I was saying. I'm just questioning your tax numbers is all. Um, there's not an inherent there's not um So, have you talked to a tax uh

person to help you run this out?

>> I did and that's where I got the 22%.

>> Okay, then maybe I'm wrong. Okay. What do you make? What's your household income? >> Uh, so we're about 120 130. Um, he told

us about since it's married filing joint, it'd be about 228,000

give or take is what the 22% would be for us with the standard deduction.

>> Okay.

All right. All right. Um, I will shut up then. Okay. So, you can pull a 100 a year out for four years.

Yeah, roughly. >> And keep it at 22. Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> All right. Um, now back to your question then. Um,

we surveyed and did research, the largest research project on millionaires ever done in North America, 10,167 of them. The number of them that said I

borrowed on my house to invest in the stock market and that's how I became wealthy was precisely zero. None of them

did that. Instead they worked systematically to get out of debt and systematically to invest while being debtree.

That's what they almost every one of them like 89 percentile. So, um, that's

the data tells me that the smartest thing to do, what millionaires typically do is to pay off the house. And so, I would pay off my house if I were in your shoes. And then I would use that increased cash flow to build wealth with because you don't have a house payment anymore because your house payments, God, what, 4,000, 3,000 bucks?

>> Uh, we're at 23.

>> Okay. So, yeah, round it up to 3,000.

put 3,000 a month into a mutual fund after your house is paid off and you have a million dollar in that one account in no time. That's $36,000 a

year. That's that's legitimate investing.

Okay. So, yeah, that no. So, the answer to your question is I pay off my house as soon as I can. Okay. >> And I I I want you to go back. I'm going to have to pull it up. Are you pulling up taxes? >> Yeah, I'm looking at it. It looks like 206 married filing married filing jointly 26,000 to 394

24%. >> Okay. Well, he said he said 22. Yeah.

>> So, yeah. >> Okay. All right. >> So, you're right in there. >> All right. I'm This is why I don't do taxes because I suck at it. Okay.

>> Well, then no, it's always >> either way. Yeah. So, yeah, you avoiding bracket creep is the smart way to do this. >> There's no reason to give them extra money. Is it invested in good mutual funds? So, I've got it invested right now with Fidelity. They're managing the account.

Um, and they're I've got it on a low risk because the market's been doing pretty good. Um, so I didn't want to I

didn't want to market turn and then lose the inheritance. >> You're not going to lose the inheritance with the market turn. You might lose some of the gains, >> but you won't lose the inheritance. So, no, that's there's not been a market turn where the market evaporated.

There's never been one. Even in the Great Depression, the stock market crash, the market didn't completely evaporate. It just went way down. So now, you're not going to lose the inheritance, but you might lose some of I mean, you might lose $10,000 or something, but um but no, I So, make

sure it's invested in something good that's not um because this market's

going zoom zoom and you really do want to be in on it. >> Um while you're sitting on it because you're dumping, you're because you're going to do this over four years. Make sure you're in at least an index at least and maybe a little bit more risk than that. It's where I would be anyway.

So, but but if you're doing that, yeah, you're going to be beating up on this tax bracket thing and running that running that as soon as you pull it out though, dump it on the mortgage. Soon as you pull it out, dump it on the mortgage the day you can get it out January one.

Boom. So, you could take some this year, some next year. Right. So, right now you got three week span you can get you can two hits on. >> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> So, you can pop some this year, some next year. and and that's um in the next

month you could put 200,000 on this. So um and I would I definitely would >> I' I'd just ask more questions too. I I I'd want to know why he landed specifically at 100,000 when he still got that window up against the tax bracket. >> His his income plus 100 out of this puts him right at the at the bracket creep.

That's what he was saying. >> Yeah. Well, it puts him right in the middle of the bracket. It puts him right between >> 22. What's the 22 max?

>> 22 max is 206.

>> That's what he said. Yeah. He makes like one something. >> He makes 120.

So if he took a 100red, he'd be over it already. >> Yeah. Okay. So, well, it won't be quite 100 then.

It' be just under that. But yeah, he's going to run right up to the edge of the 22s. We said, >> "Okay, that makes sense. Be careful." >> That that sounds like it's good advice.

Sound like you got it nailed down. >> But yes, the bottom line is I'm going to pay off my house before I invest. I would not borrow on my home to invest and it has the same exact mathematical effect if you don't pay off the house and you instead invest. So, no, I would not.

I'd get the house paid off. All the data that we have shows to go that way and common sense says to go that way and when you lay your head on a pillow in a house that you don't owe anything on, it feels different. >> I'm just saying. >> I say it all the time when people come up against hard times, you know, whether it's COVID or they lost their job or there's a diagnosis, the number one thing people think about is, "Can I keep my house?

>> Is my home going to be okay? Is my house going to be all right?" That's the number one thing. >> Not how my mutual funds do.

>> I didn't check my mutual fund. that never comes up. >> They want the security of their home being stable. >> Mhm. And I think there's something about it being stable that adds to um the adds

to a lot of things for one thing, but but it it adds to career choice.

>> Yes. >> Because I don't have to I don't have to put up with this crap so I can go over here and make more money.

>> And you're you just feel >> I don't know. You got a little more swag got a little more swagger in the marketplace when you >> when you don't do that. So yeah, I would

uh not to mention, you know, relationally, number one cause of divorce, money fights, money problems, money stress. Don't have that. Don't have a mortgage. Hello.

>> Uh not as much and not as much chance anyway. Oh, by the way, um what's the number one cause of death in America? Uh that would be hypertension, heart attack, >> that kind of stuff, right? And guess what?

Low blood pressure. You got lower blood pressure when you don't have a mortgage. >> That's right. I actually don't have any um data >> on that.

the anxiety caused by debt.

>> That would be groundbreaking.

>> What would be the cost? What's the real cost? >> My interest rates a good deal. Not anymore. Not once you run the medical bill on top of it. Yeah, that that uh that's a different thing. So, I mean, just >> chill. Take someone's pulse. Like put a put a meter on them as they're signing for a car note.

>> Yeah. >> See what's going on with those vitals.

>> Through the roof. >> Check the brain wave. See if there is one. >> No, those fell off.

Those fell off the chart.

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not in all states. >> All right. Today's question comes from Hayden in Pennsylvania. He says, "My wife and I recently got married and bought a home. We're debtree other than the home and have a fully funded emergency fund of about 19,000. Our combined income is approximately 10,000 a month and our expenses are only around 3500.

We spend around $450 a month on eating

out and entertainment. Now, I'm a saver and I find it very hard to spend on items that I don't believe are needs. My

wife loves to think about ways to decorate our first home. And given that we're debtree besides the home and investing 15% in our retirement, what strategy should I put into place regarding how much cash we could wisely spend on furniture? I'm happy sitting in the dark living room on a lawn chair reading financial statements, but you're cooler than me. >> Nerd if this is terrible.

He says, "You're cooler than me and we'll answer the question in a way that will ease my anxiety and also help our marriage." Oh, yeah.

Um, yeah, you guys are doing fine.

You're doing good. Baby step four, investing 15%. Love all that. The fact that you have all of this margin is fabulous. this $10,000 coming in, 3500 going out. I Dave, when I think of

things like this, I I like thinking about it in terms of what I'm going to call just kind of a financially responsible adult checklist. And this is a checklist that needs to run in the background for people who are either nerdy like this guy who's got Tide Watt syndrome or, you know, people who just have a hard time trusting their instincts. Maybe they've made a lot of bad mistakes in the past and they're just getting >> getting comfortable with the idea of doing well with money. Number one, and it it's following the babysitter.

You you're on your budget every single month. You're checking in with your budget. You're utilizing your budget. If that's yes, check green light. Next thing, are you a person who's out of debt and you're not entertaining things that allow you to go into debt? So, you're just a debt-free lifestyle. Yes, check. Are you a person who's carrying the proper insuranceances? I'm guessing you are. I'm guessing you have your life insurance, your wills, everything's in place there. Great green light. Next thing, are you person who is doing all the ways that we say to save money?

You've got your 3 to 6 months check.

You're investing 15% a form of saving.

Yes. You've even bought a home, another forced savings account. Green check.

Very, very good. And are you a person who's prioritizing generosity? Now, I did not see that in the things that you talked about. That could help. So, that's one that I'd put a little question mark. If you are doing those five things, you are what's known as a financially responsible adult, which means when there's margin left over, Dave, you can use those. You don't just have to do needs, needs, needs, needs.

There's some wants that you need to throw in there, and you can do it in a you can trust that you'll do it in a responsible way because you've been responsible on all the things that matter. So, yes, give your wife some money to decorate this house. You're not going to go into debt over it. You're not going to sacrifice the things that you need and that make you a responsible adult. So yeah, do it. Get in the couch.

>> There are three things you can do with money. You can give it, you can spend it

wisely, and you can save it. You need to

be doing all three of those things.

>> Yes. >> And when you're not, you're not in balance and you're going to blow up at some point >> or somebody around you is going to blow up. You could live in a lawn chair in your living room. She can't. So, she won't be living with you >> if you keep this up. That's how this works. Okay. So, financially responsible adults. I do not understand it. I My joke was I do not understand China

dishes that we never eat on. And I really don't understand a $3,000 cabinet to put the dishes in that we never eat on. I don't have to understand this. You don't have to get it. You just have to get it >> cuz you speak Raptor. >> You have to go get it. I I don't speak China. I speak Raptor. I speak gun.

>> You speak gun. >> I don't speak purse. So yeah. So I don't have to get it. I've just got to get it.

Happy wife, happy life. >> And got to remember what's it all for? Like otherwise why what's why are you doing this if you can't enjoy any of it?

>> Well, it's not it if part of him enjoying it is allowing his wife to enjoy. We have a line item in our budget. Continuously decorating.

>> Yeah, >> we're continuously decorating. For 43 years, we've been continuously decorating. I haven't always been aware of it, but we have been continuously decorating >> because the cur the window treatment >> finally I gave up and admitted it. Okay, now we're actually doing it.

So, we're going to put it in the budget and this is the number you can do up to this per month or you can not do it for three months and still spend the total of those dollars. I don't care. But this is the amount and I have the same thing for whatever my little thing is, right? I'm going to go buy a gun or I'm going to do whatever with.

That's having fun with money and it has a an agreed on amount.

>> Yes. You both >> and then there's no thing. So you put a put a little fun category in there and do that. And no, you're not being irresponsible. Jade's got you checked off. Exactly. Right. And he's making fun of himself to his own credit. He's I'm a nerd. He's saying he's saying I'm a nerd and he knows he's a nerd. That's good.

But most men can live under a bridge. It doesn't bother us. And so we don't need drapes. I mean, we don't understand.

It's like shades will do, you know? So cheaper shades. But yeah, but I don't understand. I don't know why it has to.

Oh well, it's so it doesn't matter if I understand or not. I have figured that out. So yeah, you need a budget for a line item for generosity. It doesn't sound like you have that and it sound and you do need a budget line item that you've both agreed to and then you shut up about it.

No whining about it. No, I gave you $500. You don't give her nothing. She married you.

>> There you go. >> So we decided we are spending $500 a month. We decide we're spend $1,000 a month. We decide whatever to decorate our new home >> and he'll probably like it.

I mean, you like the stuff that Sharon picks. >> Not No, not equal to what it costs.

>> Listen, I'm scared of you when you go home. >> No, I'm not. I don't I truly I'm not as

bad as this guy, but I truly don't care.

>> I would not have spent that on that chair. Not in a not in a million freaking years. >> That's good. >> But that's okay. I'm happy and she's happy and we've got the money. So, it's okay. >> It's okay. Everybody's good. And she she you know, she does not understand some of my obsessions either. So, it's okay.

It's all right. It doesn't m The point is you need to enjoy as a couple your money.

>> And you need to be generous and give your money. >> That's right. >> And you need to be constantly investing and saving. And you are.

And so, we know you got that one. And so, yeah, it's there's three things you can do with money. You have to teach little kids the same thing, by the way. Teach your little kids to give, to save, and to spend.

>> I'm on it now. >> That's It's a hard That's a hard one, but if you get them there, they'll be happy adults. >> Yeah. Yeah, they will.

I'm working on it. >> Good balance. Good balance. Alyssa is in Austin, Texas.

Hi, Alyssa.

>> Hi. I'm thrilled to be here.

>> Good to have you. How can we help? >> Um, well, I want to know how I should quit

working on my business or keep going.

>> What are you making? Are you Are you making money?

No. >> How how much are you making? What's your total dollars coming in in a month?

>> Uh like 500 a month.

>> How long you been at it? >> I've been working on it like really

hard. Like three months, but I was like lightly doing it. >> What is the business? >> Months ago.

>> It's a digital marketing business because I want to work from home because I'm a homeschooler mom, so I want to work in the afternoons. And >> did you buy some kind of package or something to do this with?

>> Multile. >> Yes. Well, I I promised my husband I

wouldn't like spend over a certain amount, you know, so I'm almost to that limit and now I'm questioning like should I keep going cuz I bought like a course and like professional Zoom and

like the website things and it's like slowly trickling and most importantly I have to find someone to watch my children in the afternoons >> so I can have time to work on the business. Plus, I'm working on the weekends. My husband is graciously watching them and I'm like I don't know if I'm just at the low part of starting a business. >> No. >> Or if I should just keep going.

>> No, there's no there's no mystery to it.

Henry Cloud says on the in his book, Necessary Endings, that when you lose hope that things are going to get better, it's time to end whatever it is.

>> So whether that's a relationship, a job, a business, a and so you've got to give me a reason why you think this is going to start making 5,000 a month.

because you're making a dollar an hour right now. This sucks, >> right? >> So, you got to really you're going to have to solve for I'm going to make these final three moves and get this to $4,000 a month or I'm not going to go,

"Oh, it just takes a while." No, it doesn't take a while. You got to go get the stuff done. >> Yeah. And have a plan. >> Yeah. And you you could have gone and gotten a part-time job and made a whole lot more.

So, I I kind of think you bought an internet thing that you read and I think

they sold you a bunch of crap is kind of what it sounds like to me.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Wshaw is my co-host. Ramsay

personality, number one best-selling author. Jessica's in Springfield, Michigan. Hi, Jessica. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Yeah. Um, I am calling. I am a single

mom with a rowdy little toddler son, but

I um one one um income and been working

three jobs and trying to do the baby steps and then I just feel like I'm like in a and I'm not like a rut or just just not getting anywhere is where I kind of feel like. Um try not to get emotional with it, but I just feel like I just sometimes have failed. Um that's kind of where I'm at right now.

>> So >> yeah, I don't think you failed. You might be tired. >> Mhm. But I don't think you failed. Um, so tell me about who's who's watching the baby when you're doing all this work. >> Yeah. So I actually um just moved back home with my parents to kind of help >> like save money and I actually don't um Yeah. So how old are you actually?

>> Um I'm 36. >> And how much child support are you receiving? >> I do not get any. Dave, >> why? >> Um I had a bad lawyer. I feel like um we

uh we actually have joint custody, but I don't actually get any support. So >> Okay. And what do you make at your day job? >> Yeah, so my full-time job um I make about 50 53,000 and then with my I do

have two side jobs >> that like and I make about 58,000 a year

um alone >> at those two.

>> Um no, sorry. Like >> 58 your side jobs only make $5,000 a year. >> Yes. Mhm. Yeah. not making anything at your side jobs. Okay.

>> No, they're both contract jobs and one of them I honestly just need to get rid of. Um they there's really no work there anymore. Um but I work my full-time job I I work between anywhere between 10 to 20 hours overtime um each week with that. >> So what do you when you bring home your when you get your checks for the month, what's it total for the full month? um for the full month um they typically are about um after tax is about 38 um 3,800

is typically where I sit.

>> So what you're you're home with your parents and they're helping you out and that 3,800 what's it going towards?

um towards debt um right now. And I am I am still um I'm paying my rent up until this actually this last month um which um which I'm paying for an empty apartment in Alabama, but um I do that's another $1,000 I will be getting in my in my in my pocket.

>> She had $1,000 rent back in Alabama. And now what what else was the 3,800 going to? >> Um uh student loans and um student loans

and medical debt and um credit card done is where that How much how much student loan debt do you have? >> Um student loans is right about 28,000.

>> And how much medical?

>> Uh medical is about 3,000.

>> Okay. And how much credit card?

>> Uh credit card is $8,500.

>> Wow. You know, I'm hearing this and like the more you're saying it, the more excited I'm getting because you're getting this help from your parents. The $1,000 you're going to get back in your pocket after this month. you know, next next month you can knock the medical debt out. >> You got a car debt?

>> I do have a car debt. It's uh Yeah, it's

it's 8,000.

>> Okay, that's not bad. And how's the car running? It's all right.

>> Yes, it Yeah, it it runs great. And I've

I mean I' I've gone through the FIP university and I I debated selling my car, but I do I had to travel back to Alabama monthly. So having having a car for my talk, >> why do you have to travel back to Alabama?

>> Um what it's it's crazy is I still have to take my son for visitations. Um which

his his father doesn't really care. Um it's a sad thing. >> So his dad won't come to you where you are. You have to by is it by court order that you have to go to him?

>> Yes. Mhm. Yes.

>> Is there a way to go back and change any of that?

Um there's I I have debated going back

and um going back to court, but it was like an $8,000. I'm sorry. I'm so emotional. >> It's okay. It's all right. >> It was like It was $8,000 bill.

>> How long were y'all married?

>> We were not married thankfully. Like thank God that we were not married. Um cuz I dodged the bullet on that one.

>> Okay. Okay.

Okay. And so you're you're talking about the travel that sets you back a little bit. >> All right. So, but so did you get a tax?

How long How long have you been gone from Alabama? Gone from him?

>> Um, we just moved back in May. Um, so

about seven about seven, eight months.

Um, I think that's >> Did you get a tax refund last year?

>> I did. How much? Yes, sir. I did.

>> Um, I I believe it was shy of 3500.

>> Okay. I want you to go to uh HR and change your W2 by $300 a month and bring

300 more home to 4,100.

>> That would help a lot >> because that's what you're giving the IRS too much every month out of your check. You're giving them too much money. They don't more than you owe.

>> And and let's get you on a budget because I think when you get on a written plan, you're going to see that living with your parents right now, which I think is a good move for you right now, all of your money is your I mean, are they charging you anything? Have they said you need to do this or that?

>> No. I mean, I help like with groceries and stuff. >> So, if you take $1,000 a month to live on and put $3,000 a month towards these bills, uh the medical bills are gone in one month. 3 months later, the credit cards are gone >> and uh 3 months later, the car is gone.

>> So, 7 months from now, you're debtree except student loan.

>> Right. That that would be amazing. Well, no, that that's exactly your number. And then in another eight months, this student loans are gone. >> Yeah. >> So you're looking at 16 months, 17 months on this. >> If you can stay there that long, you'll be debtree and be able to go get you an apartment and start your life.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> And if you get an extra job that's reliable and legitimate where you're making some serious money >> versus the versus the crappy ones you've got now, you can you can accelerate that speed. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's what here's what's happened. Your emotions and your body

physical reaction is still living back

there with the doofus boy.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I'm sitting here in your future.

Jade's sitting here in your future and it's so bright I need to wear shades.

See, it's you cuz I'm I'm looking out six months from now.

>> Mhm. M >> and you're debtree but student loans.

>> And and by the way >> that that is not scary or crying numbers. Those are happy numbers,

>> excited numbers, celebration numbers.

>> And don't get hung up on the six months because you're going to feel it after this month when you pay the medical debt. You're going to start feeling it >> right now. Yeah. >> Soon as you start doing the budget.

>> This month, no medical debt. Next month, half the credit card's gone.

>> Or a third of the credit card's gone. The next month, a third. The next month, a third. the next month. So, seven months it takes to get the car >> and the credit cards and the medical

bills down to just the student loan.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. You're okay.

>> Mhm. >> You're okay. It doesn't feel like you're okay because your life has sucked for so long, but now just look out into the future and I see a really cool future.

>> Yep. >> The rearview mirror's got manure in it.

Okay. >> Yes. >> But the future's bright.

Okay. So, you're coming out of the manure pile riding a pony, kiddo. Here we go. >> All right. >> Yes. Like, yes.

>> You're okay. Your your numbers are better than you feel. >> Uh-huh. >> Okay.

>> Do you hear the math? Do you hear the math? >> I I do. Yeah.

I'm Yeah, I >> just suck Just breathe that in and hold it, right? You're okay. We're going to set you up on every dollar and if you need to call us back, you call us back. We'll keep walking with you.

But you can do this. This is very doable. If it was bad, we'd tell you. >> That's right.

>> We tell you the truth around here.

Kelly is with us in Cincinnati. Hey, Kelly. What's up?

>> Hello Dave. thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um I'm 53 years old. I've been dating my

boyfriend um for about 2 years now and and the idea of long-term commitment in marriage has been coming up. Um we're both financially stable, no debt,

lot significant amount in retirement accounts and he is just straight up

against marriage. Um, >> he got burned bad.

>> He did. He did. He actually he really got burned bad. Um, and that was I mean

that was 20 years ago, 25 years ago.

>> Yeah. But he still he still lives in that. >> What? Yes. >> Was he upfront about that? Has he been upfront about that? The fact that he doesn't want to be married?

>> Yes. >> And you were thinking maybe you could change his mind? >> I thought I was okay and now I'm like but it's not. I mean, I understand we both like we both have kids.

>> Yeah, >> they're almost all adults. We both are financially stable.

>> Um, >> that's so heartburn. >> And obviously it it it is. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> So, I'm just stuck, right?

>> No, I mean, you're not stuck.

>> You're not stuck. You've already you've already decided who you are, and he decided who he is, and that's a bad thing. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah.

You know, >> I wish it didn't feel bad. >> I thought I wish it didn't feel bad, too. It's but it feels awful. It hurts cuz you really I mean you like the guy obviously.

Um might even say love the guy but I would just say you know I thought I could be okay not being married and I'm not okay and you're not okay talking about getting married even or getting you know counseling for what happened to you. I'm not her and I feel like she's being held against me and against the institution of marriage. All marriage is not bad.

All people don't mistreat each other the way she did. And >> so, his conclusion is illfounded.

>> It's b it's based in scars and pain.

>> And um, and he's he's unwilling to address it. >> Well, here and here's the other part of it, Kelly, here, and I'm thinking about this just from a if if I were in your

shoes. >> I wouldn't want to have to convince somebody of it. >> Yeah. >> Do you see what I'm saying? Like even if you laid out some sort of a hey if you don't do this I'm walking and then if he decided okay I'll marry you. That doesn't feel good either does it.

>> No it doesn't. It doesn't. Cuz I've thought about that. >> You know that's the tough part.

It's tough. I'm not going to lie. I I feel for you. >> I'm sorry.

>> And it's it's it's a few years in the future still but I don't you know I'm I'm not 20. >> Well I mean you've already so I don't want to waste those years. >> Did you say three years? >> I wouldn't.

No. There's no there's no f there's no no time in the future.

>> And so you start >> all right. I was hoping you were going to just give me some magic to convince him that it was that it was good.

>> But I'm kind of I think it is good. And I think it's him. I think if I were for if I if he was on the phone, I would tell him to sit down with a therapist, sit down with his pastor and start reaching towards some healing from his past >> because he's he's hurting. He's the scars are dominating his thought pattern rather than his bright future and he's about to lose a great gal because of it.

So, >> have you mentioned that to him that maybe there's some healing that needs to take place?

>> Uh, no. I don't think I've ever actually said those words. Um he he had a long-term partner who didn't require marriage and I think he just kind of settled into that and then >> they broke up very easily, right? I mean it was, hey, let's go our separate way.

>> So he's never been actually married before. >> No, no, he was married >> and then and then he had a long >> and then he had a long-term relationship that she didn't require him >> to marry. Um and then she just kind of said, "Okay, I'm out. I'll see you." >> And he was like, "Oh, okay." And he's like, "See, I didn't have to go through a divorce.

I didn't have to pay a lawyer. This is great. This was so wonderful." And I'm like, >> "But that's not the commitment I want." >> Yeah. Yeah.

That's exactly right. This is Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> All right. Well, I appreciate you taking my call. >> I'm sorry. Thanks. Thanks for calling.

>> Oh, that's tough. >> That's That is hard. That is hard.

>> That's uh That's tough. It's You You

have these conversations early and often. And he did say it. He said it from the beginning. >> Yeah. I mean, you can't argue with a guy in terms of his honesty, but that still doesn't it's just not a matter.

>> Painful. Yeah. >> Yeah. I think the thing is the only thing I might have done if I looking back on it, I'm trying to look backward on this is maybe, >> you know, a little sooner in the pro rather than investing two years into it >> and because the heartbreak is more extreme the further you're into it. So, ouch. >> Ouch. >> Lynn is in Columbia, South Carolina.

Hey, Lynn. What's up?

Hey, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, I would love we would love your opinion on if it makes sense in the current housing market to sell our Airbnb.

>> Tell us more. Why are you thinking of selling? >> Okay. So, so I lost my job. Uh, my position was

eliminated about six weeks ago and I'm currently looking for another job, but if it doesn't I I don't think I'm going to be able to make as much as I was. So, if it doesn't work out, we would definitely have a profit from selling the Airbnb. >> Um, and we could definitely live on that for a while.

>> What does does your husband work?

>> He does. >> And what does he make?

>> He probably makes only about 37 a year.

And let me explain because he's he had a

business. We moved in to South Carolina about a year ago. He had a business um a dist distributing business and we were

living on mostly on my income because I I was at a company for a very long time and they told me that you know it would work remotely and regardless they did eliminate my position. So he's working at a local supermarket um in a receiving area. >> And what were you making >> looking for a higher paying job? I was making probably 90 >> doing what?

I was an executive admin to a president of a company. >> Now, what made you say that you probably won't make that again? That's a crazy statement.

>> Uh because in South Carolina, um I was a I I I did that my entire life. And to

just step into a position, >> um an executive admin position, you're not I'm not going to there's nothing available currently here that I've looked at in the last six weeks, two months that starts at that level.

Understood. What do they start at?

>> Um, more 40, 50.

>> Interesting. Okay. Uh, back to the Airbnb for a second. Uh, what's it worth?

>> Um, probably 200.

>> And what do you owe on it?

>> 112. >> Where were you living before?

>> So, in Pittsburgh, is that what you mean? >> Yeah. And why did you choose South Carolina?

Um, two of our three daughters uh live

around the corner from us and one lives in Charlotte, so we needed to be near them and near our grandchildren.

>> Is Airbnb in Pittsburgh?

>> No. So, we bought it in 2020 um so that

I could come down here and work and be be close to the grandkids when I came down. And then when we moved down here last year, um

we decided to Airbnb. Well, actually, I decided to Airbnb. >> The answer to your question is simply yes, I would sell it. Okay.

But then the other the other thing I want to address is um number one, your husband needs a different position. >> Um and number two, I your set of assumptions. I'm um >> struggling. >> Frankly, I'm I'm very familiar with Colombia and I'm very familiar with Charlotte and I'm frankly shocked that you haven't seen any executive positions anywhere, assistant positions over 40 or $50,000.

That's I know if you go to Charlotte you would and that that might be >> an hour and a half north. Yeah. >> Well, that's where one of the other kids lives. I heard that.

And so you'd be an hour and a half from your grandkid over on that side, but be next to the kid that's in Charlotte.

need the income, but um I don't know what you all need to make to survive and and and so forth, but uh on the back end of your career, but I

it it it is a it's an interesting observation, 30 years of doing this, that people when they lose a job, for some reason always assume they're going to make less. >> They never assume it's an opportunity to make more. I don't know why that is.

>> We've had all those years of experience.

I would think. >> Now, Columbia is not a huge market, but it's big enough that there ought to be somebody over 40 playing for an executive assistant. That doesn't feel right. So, um, but I think it's just a

belief system. You're just like, "Oh, I'm always going to make less cuz I'm not in Pittsburgh." Well, I mean, that's pretty snobbish. So, um, that South Carolina doesn't pay what Pittsburgh pays. Yes, they do. So, um, hello

Heat.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. Hey, interest rates are down, boys and girls. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's happening in the housing market. Well, we're here to tell you the latest trends. The latest trends are that home prices held steady last month. 424,000

is the median. In October, about one in five houses saw a price cut, which means buyers might have more room in the winter to negotiate, snag a better deal.

That's generally true around December.

Mortgage rates are at 5 and a half in October. Nice. To learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you, go to ramseyolutions.com/market.

And we got all the market data on there.

Facts are your friends. Don't listen to the crazy friends of yours. YOU'RE A KID. Don't don't listen to all the cr all the whining and the carrying on.

It's nuts. Just go find out what the facts are and you'll be amazed at how housing is still there. It's not all gone. Your life isn't over. Everything's okay. Logan's in Dallas. Hey, Logan. How are you? >> Hey, Dave. I'm good. I'm doing well.

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Uh, so my wife and I, we've always had separate bank accounts. Um, and my wife

is is uh is against combining to to one

shared account, but lately she's been stressed because she hasn't been able to help out as much as she used to used to with the bills. >> So, I'm wondering what sort of alternatives we might have.

>> How long you've been married?

>> We just celebrated our 10 year anniversary this year.

>> Why is she against combining accounts?

because she's told me that she feels like um if if she combines her bank

account, she would feel more um um she

would she wouldn't feel independent.

>> Got it. >> Why? She doesn't think you're going to count her vote.

>> She She doesn't She doesn't think that uh um she doesn't want to spend my money. >> How? >> It's not your money. It's our money. We got married. I know. >> How'd she grow up? How'd she grow up?

uh uh she grew up in a she her mom and

dad are still together. They have separate bank accounts though as well.

She's kind of following in there.

>> Okay. Well, let me let me give you a couple things. Number one, the um data

tells us uh when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done that people who combine accounts have a much higher probability of actually becoming millionaires.

And uh 89% of the millionaires surveyed

said that were married said that one of

the reasons they became wealthy is they worked in alignment with a spouse that

was cooperative and combined everything.

And so the uh marriage vows or the old

marriage vows are true. In the old book of common prayer they used to say for rich or for poor in sickness and in health. We've all heard that one. But there was in the old ones they would say, "Unto thee all my worldly goods I

pledge." In other words, we're allin.

We're going to share everything. The same bed. We're going to share the same house. We're going to have flu at the

same time. We're going to be allin.

Okay? And we share and we share bank accounts. And it's not our your money and my money. It's our money. My wife

has not had an income since my 40-year-old daughter was born.

But we have an excellent income and I

don't we don't ever say Dave makes the money, Sharon doesn't get a vote. That really wouldn't work at all. But but it

also doesn't work at all. So we were very careful with our pronouns.

Everything is shared. It's our car, our everything. Unless the dog pees on the floor and then it's my dog. But other than that, it's our everything, right?

And so your dog, but yeah, but other than my dog that everything is we, our us, >> and this is what we are doing. We built a house, we bought a car, we went on a

trip, we saved up some money for retirement, we bought some investment real estate, we do it all. And uh there's a tremendous marital benefit to that as well because when you agree on

the overall, let's put all the money in one pile and we have to sit down and both of us have an equal vote. I'm not suggesting she loses her independence.

I'm suggesting she lost her independence when she got married. You did, too, by the way. Uh, you now promised to work with someone the rest of your life on things. >> You gave up being independent. That's independent was when you were living by yourself in an apartment. That's independent. Okay. But um but you didn't lose your identity when you got married, but you but you did lose your independence. You are now interdependent. Thank God. And now we're

going to work together. And I I really

really really I can't stress this enough what it will do for your relationship. Cuz here's the thing. When you agree on your spending, you got the whole money a pile and we sit down together. She gets a vote. You get a vote. We're going to spend our money together.

You are agreeing on what you fear. You are agreeing on your dreams. You are

agreeing on your values. you are agreeing on what we're going to be generous with. And when you don't combine it, you don't have all that agreement. And so, a level of unity, a level of oneness is missing from your relationship. I'm telling you, man, Euro's relationship will double in quality when she gives this up.

>> Yeah. When I hear this, I I hear somebody who What's at the root of this?

I think it sounds it sounds powerful for

women to say, "Oh, at the root of this is like I'm a feminist and I'm a I'm an independent woman who don't need no man." But really what's at the fear the root of it is fear is what I hear is somebody who's fearful that if I combine 100% with this person, something could happen down the line and I could be left out to dry. I could be the one left holding the bag. I could be the one that ends up getting screwed out of this. >> By the way, the law says otherwise.

>> But that's what's the law protects that.

That's what's ticking in her mind. And so that's that's the the the nerve that I'd be going after is >> when I think of the word independence, that means you're free from something.

And in this case, you're free from me. I don't want you to be free from me. I want us to be together. And what I'm thinking is you're thinking about will you be protected in the future? Could something happen to you? Let's talk about all of that. I think if you can speak her language on this, you can come together on this. >> Yeah. I just the problem is if you don't

you're lowering the quality of your marriage, the probability of your marriage working and you're lowering the probability of building wealth. The data tells us all that, right? >> That's those are facts. It's not a feeling and it's not a spiritual statement. It's a databased statement

and we know that from having done this for 30 years and having studied we research project and research project out there >> out there on this and so yeah um so

young man if you're out there and you want to get married and you want to um

never be told what to do never ha never

have someone have an opinion on whether you go by and have a beer after work or never have don't get married

because that's what's going to happen.

That's one of the things you give up.

You you you now have acquiesced to

someone else's desires.

>> Sure. 100%. >> Young man, if you're getting married, young woman, if you're getting married, if you want to be independent and be a feminist, you shouldn't be. Marriage is not for you. >> Well, life just changes. It just it's not for you. >> The definitions change.

>> It's not that you have to submit to the men. It's quite the opposite of that. Um it's he needs he's got to submit to you too. Submit yourselves one to another.

>> Ephesians says >> that both of you >> serve each other that both of you and

this is what creates high quality relationships. This is what creates high probability building wealth. Oh by the way careers take off too. It's the weirdest thing. >> And the data says that people who combine their money they're just happier. Like just daytoday they're happier. I think >> Arthur Brooks happiness study, he finds that stuff in marriage all the time. The cooperation creates the happiness >> and and as opposed to I'm standing up for my rights.

>> Well, and it's building trust because when you can do money together, you've the thing you've learned about each other is I can depend on you and you can depend on me. I keep my word, you keep your word, we keep our word. And when you do that, >> that's good right there. You're good. >> That'll preach. >> You're good to go.

>> Yeah. That's it's an of integrity verification. >> That's right. That's right. >> That's that's strong. That's strong because you know it it and it's not in his situation. His situation doesn't apply to this. But I can't tell you the the reason that that that song sings right there is the number of times I run into someone who's got financial infidelity, they also have sexual infidelity.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> There's a correlation.

>> Oftentimes we run we run into it a lot in the counseling office here. So it's just Oh man. Wow. Hey, that's a cool question. Thanks for putting it out.

Our

scripture of the day, Colossians 4:5, be wise in the way you should act toward outsiders.

Make the most of every opportunity.

Thomas soil said, "Why is there so much effort being put into trying to find intelligent life on other planets when there is serious question about how much intelligent life there is here?"

>> Oh, not bad. Not bad at all. All right,

Erin's in Pittsburgh. Hi, Erin. What's up? >> Hi, Dave. Hi, Jade. Thank you both for all you do and thank you for taking my call today. >> Sure. Thank you. How can we help?

>> So, I I kind of called on a whim. Um, but basically just a quick question. Um,

me and my husband are on baby steps four, five, and six. Um, and you know,

my I have two boys, uh, ages 16 and 12.

They both want some pretty expensive clothing for Christmas. Um, one hoodie,

for example, can be anywhere from, you know, $150 to $300.

And I I grew up without without money.

And so, um, you know, I just look at

that and I think, you know, I could buy five hoodies for that price. And I just need to know, am I crazy? You know, it's a Christmas gift. Is it okay to spend a lot of money on like one item of

clothing? Um, I mean, I feel like it's

okay, but I guess I'm trying >> What's your household income?

>> Like right around right below 300,000.

Is it the fact that is it the 150 because you might spend 150 on I don't

know a bike or to 300 on a bike or a scooter or a gaming system, right? But

clo is it the fact that it's clothing specifically or is it the money specifically?

>> It's it's honestly clothing, you know, it's like I said, you know, I I I mean >> Okay. So, it's the it's not the money, it's the fact you don't feel like it's good value.

>> Yes, exactly. I don't feel like it's a good a good value. And I'm just like, you know, like I said, one hoodie is $300. I'm like, oh my goodness, I could spend I could use that money. >> I'm so out of not aware there was a hoodie that was over $70. >> No, there there is. >> What's the brand of this? I'm so out.

I'm such a dad joke. What's the What is the brand of this? >> Um I think it's called Spider. Is it's

there's like a five in the middle. I'm just But it's like Okay. >> It's like Is that ski? The ski wear

>> spider skiw wear. Yeah. Um I it's just that stuff can be expensive. I think some some rapper made it, you know.

Yeah. Some rapper.

It's what's popular at school. They want to be, you know, they want the latest thing. I >> So now there's two there's two parts to the discussion then. >> And you know, it might be fun to sit down and talk to them about it >> and go, okay, I grew up poor, so this is

hard for me. This is you talking. Okay,

>> number one. Number two, we have the money.

And I'm I'm concerned about two things here because I think you are. I'm going to put words in your mouth. You tell me if I'm wrong. Okay? I'm concerned that

we're buying something super expensive just so you feel better about yourself >> at school >> and uh so that you think you look cool and you think that clothing makes you look cool instead of just by the way being cool is a way to good better way to look cool. And um then then the

second thing is is that I'm worried about what I'm teaching you when I do

this for you. I can afford it and I'm

willing to overcome my childhood part in

order to do this for you. But I'm worried about you guys and what I'm teaching you if I do this because it's not a very good it's not a good use of the money. You're buying one thing and one thing only here and it's prestige.

You're not buying the quality of clothing. You're buying the name.

>> And so it would be the equivalent of a 16-year-old girl wanting a uh what $2,000 coach purse.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And and you know, which is why does she need that purse when she has, you know, she doesn't at school. Okay.

The same thing. Yeah. Or I'm making this up, but uh >> you know, an expensive item. And is a coach purse worth that? No, you're paying for the fact that people see you carrying a Louis Vuitton or carrying a Coach. >> That's what you're paying for. The the purse itself is not constructed,

>> you know, 8x better, >> right? >> And this this this hoodie is not constructed. The quality of the material or something is not is not double what the $75 hood. So, I mean, you just kind of talk that through with them >> and go, what is it? What is it that's driving you to want this? And cuz as your mom, I want you, my job is not to make you happy right now. My job is to raise you to be a complete grown-up.

>> I'm trying to raise great grown-ups, not great kids.

>> And that's my job. And this is how we talk to our teens. And we would say, "Okay, what's the value system? What matters here?" And I'm not shaming you.

I just want you guys to think through this. And you know, and once we've talked it through, if I'm convinced that you think you're cool without this, I might get it for you. I'd also I'mma throw another question in there because I I'm a creative and I I always am encouragement encouraging my kids to be themselves. I'd want to know is this a trend you're trying to set or is this a trend you're trying to follow? >> Oo, >> that's what I'd want to know.

>> Wow. >> Because if you're trying to set a trend, I'm all in with you.

>> Really? >> I I love I I want >> leader of the pack. >> Yes. >> Leader of the first one to the game.

>> Yeah. I like that. >> Early adopter. >> Good. >> Wow. That's interesting,

>> huh? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And I just I don't want our We don't none of us none of the three of us, Erin, you, me, or Jade, want our kids to have their self-esteem based in what they wear or what they own,

>> right? >> Stuffbased self-esteem is really shallow

>> and it's kind of Instagram influencer crap, you know? And it's like it's shallow. >> It's all about how you look and instead of who you are. >> And it's all about who who sees you with this and >> that kind of thing. One of Rachel's rules, my daughter's rules is if if no one ever sees me with this, would I still buy it? >> So good.

>> Yeah, that's good.

>> And she in other words, I'm buying it for me, not for someone else. See, I when I was in my 20s, I drove a Jaguar cuz I wanted everybody to think I was wealthy and had a Jaguar. Now I drive.

The only cars I have are for me. I don't care what you think cuz I went broke and

I lost all my care what you think. It all went away. I don't give a crap now what you think. So I drive whatever I want to drive and if you don't like it, I couldn't care less. I'm not taking a poll. >> So um you know and so I drove in a

pickup today and I'm just it's a great pickup but I don't care. I can drive whatever I want to drive and I like the car. So that but I I but when I was in my 20s it was real concerned about what you thought. >> So Rachel's rule is a good rule too. I love that rule. If no one ever saw you >> Yeah. I like the trends setter thing.

That's interesting. >> Yeah. Because you know teach them to lead. >> There's always something that's the big trend and it's like if you get it you're part of the cool people. You're part of the group and it's like no you you make the trend and let everybody come and follow what you're doing. I I I care about >> and I and I worry too I worry too that you know this is the trend now and if I buy it in another three months it won't

be 100% it won't be >> no >> this time next year it's in the goodwill pile >> goodwill no question >> no question it's going it's going it's going to the homeless this time next year >> there's um there's a there's a viral

video going around social media of a mom

and she's asking her daughter who's probably somewhere between the age of your boy somewhere between 12 and 16.

She says, "Hey, uh, reme do you remember what you got for Christmas last year?" >> No. >> Have you seen that? >> She can't think of any of them.

>> Most kids I can't tell you.

>> But then she said, "Where did we go on vacation?" And the daughter remembered exactly where they went. So that right there is a good indicator of how experiences are better than stuff.

>> Yeah. How their minds are. I I I would use this as a teachable moment and instead of saying am I spending too much money, it's what am I getting for the

money I'm spending.

>> And part of the one of the things I'm getting is the lesson that you two boys learn from this.

And I got to become convinced that you think that you're awesome without this hoodie. >> And if you think a hoodie makes you awesome, I'm not getting it. Mhm.

>> Cuz I'm not going to I'm not going to cause your self-esteem to be based in what you're wearing ever.

>> That's not a lesson we not not at the Ramsy's >> and not at Aaron's house.

>> And you know, I think it'd be a great growing up thing for them to talk about peer pressure and >> Yes. >> You know, all this stuff and trend setting and following the cool kids and all that crap. Yeah. >> Yeah.

I think it it's a great it's a great conversation to have. >> It is. And um you know teenagers actually and if you'll come in and start with I grew up poor so this is hard for me. Start with vulnerability they'll really listen.

>> I bet I bet >> that puts this hour the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

Heat.

Heat.

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## 158. Stop Making Excuses for Bad Money Choices | August 4, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QUdRGKPZcM) |
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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:51 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Live from Nashville, Tennessee, it's the Ramsy Show where we help people with their wealth, their jobs, their work,

their relationships, with just about everything. And I guess jobs and work are the same thing, James. So there you go. If you want to be on this show, we're taking live calls.88255225.

I'm John Deloney, joined by my great friend George Camel, and we're taking calls from all over the planet.

888255225.

Let's go out to Pennsylvania and talk to Nancy. What up, Nancy?

>> Hi, guys. How are you >> doing? Awesome. How are you? >> I'm okay.

>> So, what you got? Well, so I have a little financial problem with what to do

about my dad's house.

>> All right, tell us about it. >> Okay, so my mom just passed away in February. >> I'm sorry. >> Thank you. And my father

um decided three months after my mom passed away to make a phone call to a woman that he hadn't had an affair with over 40ome years ago.

And the problem is now um they're in

love.

>> Okay. How how old is he?

>> 85. >> Okay. That answers my next question.

>> Yes. >> Wow. So he's 85. Mom passed away. And he

immediately goes, I got the old flame over here. >> How old is this lady?

>> She is in her 70s.

>> Oh, she's young. Okay. >> She's younger. >> Perfect. So, my mom and dad were married

63 years, and this is like a major shock to me.

I knew of an like two affairs that my dad had had. In my mind, I assumed they were one night stands. Didn't know that this this particular affair had gone on for years. >> How do you know this? >> He he spilled the beans to me.

>> Okay. >> Told me everything.

Um, it's been a total nightmare.

And the question now is, you know, he wants to move this woman into my mom's house, wants to marry her, and he said she is not interested in the

house, and that he'd be willing to sign

it over to my brother and I if we would

pay off his reverse mortgage.

This is a terrible idea.

>> Stay as far away from this as possible.

>> Really, I love this house.

>> I I know. But here's the thing. Every single part of the story has been about you and your pain is real and your heartbreak is real and the loss of your mom is real and finding out like secrets from your parents' marriage past is real. All that's real. >> Yeah. >> And you referred to his house as your mom's house. that that sentiment and that feeling is real in your chest. It's

not real on paper.

Okay? And so getting in the middle of his chaos, of his desperation,

of his I mean, he pulled out a reverse

mor like I I he's not he's not trustworthy is what I would say. And I'm not saying like he's had his past issues with infidelity. I'm saying he's not trustworthy. Maybe a better way to say that is he is not um reliable. He's

making very impulsive choices.

>> Yes, he is. But I can't lose this house.

>> Why not?

>> Is it because of the connection to your mom?

>> The thought of somebody else in there.

So, you're wanting to live in this house or are you just going to keep it one day and rent it out? >> Yes, I would keep it and rent it out.

>> So, some stranger is just going to live in your mom's house and destroy it.

You're okay with that? >> I would rather a stranger be in there than this woman.

>> This feels like now a vengeful tactic to just take the house so that he doesn't have it and this woman doesn't have it.

>> And you're not going to evict your dad, your 85-year-old father.

>> No. No. They would live there, I guess.

Like, right now, >> of course. So, you're the landlord >> of of this. Yeah. >> To your 85-year-old dad and his mistress. >> Okay. Can I can I tell you something? Can I let me tell you this, Nancy?

>> So, this is something that happened a few years ago. >> I um was move I was moving to a new house >> and I had all of these I was moving all my suit jackets back in my former nerd world. I used to wear suits every day >> and I had >> not well by the way. >> Not well.

Not well. >> I looked incredible. My wife actually says she misses um old suit and tiew wearing guy. not dorky teenager YouTuber guy, but that's that's a whole other story.

So, I have a jacket.

started working in higher ed, my granddad, the greatest men I've ever known, >> yeah, >> gave me an old tweed coat of his and said, "This looks like a professor coat.

>> Had the patches on the elbows and everything. It has never one time fit me

ever." >> And I always kept it, >> right? >> And I moved it house to house to house.

And I was going through clothes that don't fit and what doesn't fit and what works and yada yada. And I ran across this jacket. I smiled. I tried to put it on again for the 50th time. It still didn't fit. And I put it in the keep pile, >> right? >> And for the first time, I stopped and I

picked that jacket back up and I looked in it and I said to myself out loud, "My grandfather's not in this jacket." And I put my fist in my chest and I said, "He's right here." >> Right? And I put that jacket in the giveaway pile so somebody could wear it, >> right? I I I understand that.

Um I also >> Here's what's going to happen. I'm telling you right now, your emotions and your vengeance is going to get you in a situation that's going to be very uncomfortable to get out of. >> Right. this this house though, the property that this house is on, um it's

possible that somewhere down the line it might be worth more. Um there's a developer coming through and building homes. Um

>> do you want to be in the land development business?

>> No. >> Okay. >> And you're you're trying to justify it on the financial side and the emotional side, and I get that. But if we're going to talk finances, let's talk about the fact that you're going to lose the step up in basis. So, you're going to get your dad's original cost basis, which could mean a huge tax bill.

>> Okay? >> But if he deeds it over to you as part of an inheritance when he passes away, then it'll step up in basis. Meaning, if the house is now worth 500,000, you would inherit it at that price. But if you if he deeds it over now while he's still alive, what did he buy it for?

>> 50.

>> Yeah, probably. I mean, I >> And what's it worth now?

>> It's It's It was appraised at like about 500,000. >> Exactly. I would rather him do a prenup with this new wife of his. >> Okay. >> That says she can't touch any of his existing assets.

>> Okay. >> That's the better move. >> Okay. >> And he you inherit this house after he passes. That's the smart way to do it. I would work with an estate planning attorney and work through this whole thing with logic and facts and contracts

>> and try to remove yourself as best you can from the anger you're feeling which is understandable towards your father and his decisions. >> Okay. >> And I'm going to say something ugly but it's true. Okay. >> Yeah. >> This is not your home.

>> I know. >> Okay. And so the owner of the home can do whatever the owner wants. What you get to do is choose what type of involvement you want to have with his decisions. >> I know, but >> but what >> if my mom would want me to

>> have that house? >> Yes. >> Okay, then tell him that because George is right. I don't want you paying taxes on $450,000.

>> Okay, that makes sense.

>> I would much rather you get the house in full when he's done with it. or if he wants to sell it to you at 50,000 his original purchase price, maybe he can do that, I guess. But um and this is for everybody listening, emotions are real

and feelings are powerful and they're not designed to tell us the truth.

They're designed to keep us safe. And if you feel emotional about something, you're about to rush in, get some wisdom from somebody else who's detached from a situation so you can make the next right move.

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[Music]

Let's go out to Houston and talk to Donald. What's up, Donald?

>> Hi. >> How's it going? >> How's it going? >> I'm great. How about you?

I'm good. >> All right. What's up, man?

>> Okay. So, me and my girlfriend have been dating for five years and I'm looking to get engaged soon. So, I'm looking at engagement rings and I'm kind of between lab grown or a natural diamond. And it's the difference is a natural would be 70,000 and a lab grown would be closer to 10,000.

>> Run, bro. Are you blink twice if you're okay, Donald? >> Are you all right? Yeah, >> I'm okay. >> You okay? Whose idea was a $70,000 ring?

>> That's my idea. Definitely not her. She >> What do you make a year?

>> I make around $80,000 for my salary and

around $200,000 from uh my my dad's

business. I own some shares in it.

>> Wait, so you're paid 200,000 a year from those shares? Like dividends? >> Dividends? >> Yeah. 200,000 in dividends >> a year?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. very confused. Um, either way,

this is an insane ring. You know that, right? >> Yeah. >> Does she have expectations? Like, has this been the relationship thus far?

>> Oh, no. Definitely not.

>> Why would you do this?

>> Uh, I just >> This seems like a guy that has like a small sedan that drops it really low and puts a muffler that sounds like this on it. >> That was actually a great impression. >> Uh, hey, I only had that car for around five years. >> I knew you had one.

Why would you Why would you spend 70? Why? Why? What are you What are you trying to Who are you trying to prove what to?

>> Well, I don't know what to do with all this money I have. It's got a hole in my pocket.

>> Wow. Do you own a home?

>> No, I don't. >> Yeah, you should buy You should buy a ring for sure. Definitely. Instead of a home. That's a good move. >> Can you live inside of the ring?

>> Well, actually, I don't have any living expenses right now. I'm kind of living in a vacation home for my parents right now. And >> Okay. So money is money is a fake object

to you. It's just it's monopoly money >> essentially. >> So like you spending 70 grand like who cares? Not really my >> I don't believe you.

There's no way. You just have a million dollars in cash sitting in a checking account. You're like >> uh no. So it's uh around almost half a million in the S&P 500 between two different funds. I have around 250 in uh

high yield savings and around 300 in um

like uh kind of my I have an account in the business that gets used as um kind

of used as business funds. So I get paid interest off of that too.

>> Okay. Well, you're you're doing well for yourself. I don't know how much of it was on your own valition and effort, but I'm not I'm not mad that you have family money, but I do still think it's insane to spend $70,000 on a ring regardless of of your wealth.

Now, if you were like a billionaire, I'd be like, "All right, whatever." But you don't even own a home. You're living at mom and dad's vacation rental. And so, I think if I'm this woman, I would rather have a home than a $70,000 object on my

hand that I'm worried about every time I leave the house because I'm going to get murdered or robbed.

Yeah, man. Yeah. I I don't know. This isn't passing the smell test for me, but I I mean, if you have a million dollars laying around, brother, do whatever you want to. I just think $70,000 is insane.

>> You'll live to tell the tale, but uh she's going to keep it in the divorce.

Let me just put that out there. So, I just I have fears for the future of you two. I don't know how much she knows about your wealth and how much you've amassed, but I think you're you're setting an expectation that this is the kind of lifestyle we're always going to live no matter what. And that part worries me. >> Let's go out to Crystal in Chicago.

What's up, Crystal?

>> Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> You got What's up?

>> So, okay. I back in November, I was

involved in a car accident. I was coming home from work and this young man was flying down highway. He hit me, slipped me three times and you know fortunately I survived. >> Are you okay?

>> Yes. By the grace of God, I walked away with just a scratch on my hand and even hardly me anymore. >> Wow. Dude, I'm so glad you're okay.

>> Wow. >> That makes two of us.

So, um, from the settlement, so after I

got it with was $80,000, um, once the lawyers took their cut and the deals were paid, I was left with $32,880.37

and I had uh, uh, with my debt, $53,242

um, is what I owe out. But as of right

now, the deer that I had to purchase in

order to get from home to work just went out on me yesterday. Um, and I need a

car. I also need a new soft water soft

water uh system for my house. And I just

don't know what to do if I should save some of this money and pay toward some of my bills and pay toward some of my debt. >> Yeah. We we'll walk you through it.

George will walk you through the numbers. I just want to >> say this. I've never received a lump sum check for 80 grand, right?

>> Um >> but every time I've ever got a commission check or sold something and I'm holding money in my hand, the amount

of quote unquote needs I have multiplies

all over the place.

And so the temptation you have is to keep going back to that 80,000 number even though you're only holding 30 and to suddenly quote unquote need a nicer, newer car, need a water softening system, need new clothes, need um

savings that like you're going to need all this stuff and that money is going to evaporate before the day is over. And so the challenge you have before you is a very disciplined response. Not thinking like I won the lottery, but thinking I have a chance to get ahead, or not even ahead, but at least get caught up on how underwater I've been living my life. Thank God I'm alive and get another shot at this thing.

I'm going to do this version, right? And so, um, man, you got a shot here. So, George, you can walk us through it. >> Yeah, I would I would be force ranking the priorities.

Obviously, the biggest priority is getting out of debt, but you have a real need for transportation right now.

water softener and then the money's gone. And so I would get a reasonable car. If is this thing worth fixing? When you say beater, is it like, hey, 2,000 bucks in repairs will get this thing running for another two years, or is this a transmissions out and it wasn't worth much to begin with?

>> It wasn't worth much to begin with. It was I got it. Um it's a 2003 Honda

Accord and I paid 2,700 for it. I just

was trying to get something to get to and from work and I was and I'm not looking to get a brand new car. Not at all. But I was looking at um maybe 15,000 from like a CarMax or something, but >> I would say seven. >> I don't know. >> Seven. >> What do you make the most?

>> Um well, I I do pretty okay. My salary

is $95,852

a year. Um, but you know, I I have my

mortgage. I had I'm a single mom of one

and it just seems like everything every year I've had something major happen.

You know, both my parents pass >> and guess what? There's there's always going to be another thing that's going to happen. And that's why you should be paramount to get out of debt and get an emergency fund ASAP, especially as a single mom. >> You need stability more than anyone.

>> And so I would get yourself a reasonable car, $7 to $10,000. What is the the need

for the water softener? Is it a a health thing, a safety thing, or is it more of a want?

>> Well, no. Um, in the area in which we live, we we have uh more hard water. So,

it would just, you know, be for the washing of the clothes and to keep the pipes from rusting and things like that.

>> So, is this like a whole house filtration system like $4,000? What are we talking? >> Yes. Yes. So, I did get in touch with a

plumber and he was so kind. He was going he's willing to do it for me. Um 1,500

from start to finish.

>> Okay. Um, so I I have been kind of

looking and pricing that out. So in this >> So let's say 8,500 on a car for now, 1,500 on the water softener. That leaves you with 22 to throw at the debt, which brings your total debt down to about 21,000 or 31,000 left. What kind of debt

is that 53?

>> Um, overall outside of the house, it is student loans, credit cards, medical bills, and dental.

>> You got a whole bunch of poperri debt here and you're making six figures. And so we've got to figure out how to control the money that we have coming in and this inheritance will give you a boost, but it's not going to be the savior that you thought it would be. So we got to make a plan and I'm going to gift that to you. It's called Every Dollar.

It's a budgeting app that will change the game for you. So hang on the line. We'll send that over to you so you can get out of this mess and get some stability.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Hey, take two seconds and hit the subscribe button. Um, if you're watching us on YouTube or if you're listening to us on podcast or on one of the streaming services, um, just take a second and subscribe to the show. Like it, leave a fivestar review if you're feeling generous.

Um, those tiny little things, they don't cost any money. It takes two seconds to do it, but it makes a huge difference for the show. It kicks it up in the algorithms and the techno overlords like give it the show to more people. And um what the world needs right now is some hope and an actual plan to help with their money because we're not getting that anywhere else.

So just take a second, do that, and we'd be super grateful.

What's up, John?

>> Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. >> You got it, brother. What's up?

Well, I've got a bit of a uh goalpost I'm chasing. That's my uh the root issue. Uh kind of a long story short, my

grandfather. Uh >> no, hang football to be honest. >> I was trying to make a goal post joke. >> Tired of all this orange. >> That was well played, man. You're going to get struck by lightning for that, but okay.

All right. So, >> I know. >> Tell me about your granddad. Well, my my grandfather, he went to his forever home uh back in May and I uh I received the

inheritance and >> he passed away.

>> That's right. They said there's only one forever home and I believe that. So, >> that's where he's at. And uh I received about a $50,000 inheritance.

>> I'm also $50,000 in debt. I know the answer, the number answer is to just pay

off the debt, turn around and start saving up for a home. His wishes was to not do that. He wants me to use it to buy a home because he saw in his last,

you know, years how expensive homes are getting. And sure enough, yeah, if if he

if I would have received this two years ago, I would have been able to afford a home. But the homes that that would help me as a down payment on now are all decrepit and falling apart. So,

should I go ahead and get a house now and continue paying off debt with income

or do you guys think I'd be safe to wait another year to save that back up as a down payment and houses be even more outrageous next year?

>> Do you have a crystal ball?

>> Chasing a good Yeah. Uh, just what I've been watching. Um, my wife and I used to own a home back in 2019.

And that house, we turned around and sold it for double what we paid for it in only a couple years. And every house we could afford two years ago is now out of reach. So, it just it keeps going that way. >> So, you're you're right. There's two ways you can look at this, dude. You can look at it as regardless of situation,

um, you on the way home, somebody pulls out in front of you and hit your car and you break your leg and you've got medical bills and your grandfather said, "No, this money is for a house." And so,

like, no matter what, you can look at it that way and that's the letter of the law. It's what he said. Or you can get to the spirit of what your grandfather is trying to get for you, which is I want my grandson to have what? Peace. I want my grandson

to have a place where he can drop his shoulders and exhale >> to own something. >> To own something. >> Right now, the lenders own you, man.

>> That's right. >> And so that 50K, it does get you closer to the house if you use it to pay off debt. >> It frees you. >> Cuz what happens is we'll let's play it out.

You'll be the next caller on the show who goes, "Hey, I'm $50,000 in debt and uh I have a house that was way too much. It was way more than I could chew. I had no emergency savings. What do I do?

Should I sell the house or now I need a roof?" >> Well, that's not going to make grandpa happy either if you're broke and stressed.

So whether the money goes temporarily to debt payoff so that you can be in a position to buy a house or it goes to the house now, I think the better move is to set yourself up to where this house is a blessing and not a burden.

That's what grandpa wants. He just doesn't see your life as it is.

>> Did he know that you have 50 grand in debt? Do you know the financial stress you were under?

>> Yes. Um what it is is 40,000 of a

student loan, which my wife's getting her masters, so that's been interestree paused. Thankfully, her school is paying for the masters.

and then a $9,000 Toyota. That's just my worker commute. U but he he sees right

now I'm paying 1,500 a month in rent. He wants me to pay 1,500 a month for a house. One's an investment. One is paying my landladies mortgage. >> I know. But here's the thing. >> The math I understand, but the emotion >> one has risk and one gives you flexibility. And so right now renting is buying you patience cuz you don't need to cover all the repairs and maintenance and all the headaches that come along with it. And that's allowing you to focus on this debt payoff. What What's your household income?

>> Um, right now we're between 5,900 6,000

a month. >> And what are your total minimum payments on all these debts?

>> Uh, the 50k in the loan is paused, but it's going to be about 400 a month. The car is 200 a month.

>> So 600 a month is what you'll free up if you pay it off your debt today.

>> That's right. And then how much can you throw on top of that towards a savings to get this emergency fund in place and eventually a down payment?

>> Uh, probably about a thousand.

>> So your monthly expenses are about 5,000 a month.

>> That's right. >> And there's no wiggle room there.

>> There is. There is. I'm sure I could find another 500 or so >> cuz that tells me you're going to save at most 12 grand in a year.

Would you agree for a couple making six figures that's not super impressive?

>> That's right. >> So, what if we said, "Hey, we're going to free up 600 bucks plus save two grand a month." Now, we're talking that's 2,600 a month we're saving. That'll get you to an emergency fund and a down payment real fast.

>> Cuz what I don't want in the spirit of your grandfather's wishes is for you to wait and go, "Well, the housing market kept shifting. We never got that down payment. The housing market kept moving." And it takes you nine years to save up a h 100red grand.

You blame your grand you go buy a house you can't afford or in a situation you can't afford and then you're going to end up blaming your granddad on it.

>> Can I tell you what I'm hearing and you feel free to push back on me, okay? Cuz I'm wrong all the time. I'm okay being wrong. Is that okay?

>> All right. >> I hear a guy who is really pissed off at how expensive houses have gotten in the area where he lives. And I hear a guy who's really upset that him and his wife are doing pretty well. She's in grad school. You're making decent money. and

y'all can't even buy a house.

And there's an anger in you. There's an emotion in you that is shot you out of a

cannon and you're about to set yourself up for a huge mess.

>> That's why I'm calling in. >> That's right. Like, here's the thing. There's a there's you're the guy at the bar, man, and somebody just bumped into you, and you can set your drink down and

hit that guy and go to jail, or you can just walk out.

And I guess I me and George are the guy next to you saying, "Dude, let's just go. Let's just go and let's wake up

tomorrow and be like, "Dude, I would have totally worked in But you know what? You're not in jail. You woke up in your own bedroom." That's that's what we're saying, man. I want you to have a house. George wants you to We all want you to have a house. Your granddad wants you to have a house. But I promise you I

promise you your granddad did not want you chained to banks.

>> Absolutely. So if if the house represents freedom to grandpa, then you getting out of debt is the best thing you can do to actually get to the root of what he was wanting, which is that freedom.

That's what we're solving for. And can I be mad with you? It's it's it's it's it stupid >> that we've had these policies and we can go into them all day long, but that we're here where we are. that there's not enough houses for hardworking people like you and your and your wife that are that are cheap enough for you to get in and have a great life.

>> That's that's it's not what we all signed up for. And yet,

>> um I have a family member that basically lives in the desert whose house got flooded with that flood in Texas a few weeks ago. Like it's not supposed to happen. And yet here we are. So what we're doing is we're going to go pull all the sheetrock out and take all the kitchen cabinets over and start over.

And that's where you are, right? It's like it's I don't want this to happen. I You're right to be mad. You're right to be angry. But don't make the next wrong decision based off that that atmosphere.

Does that make sense?

>> Oh, it absolutely does.

>> Quick shout out while I got second. >> Do what, brother?

>> Do I wonder if I can give a shout out? Today's my 10y year wedding anniversary, and I know my wife's listening in. Want to say I love you.

>> It's amazing. Congratulations. And wife, listen to him. He's fighting for a house for you. He wants you to have a home.

And I know you're like, "Why don't we have a home?" He's trying. He's trying to figure it out. >> Fight with him. >> Fight with him, not not against him. And

I'm telling you, man, houses can be amazing when they're not a burden to you. And if you owe 50 grand in debt, plus you still got somebody in grad school, plus you go try to buy a house that you're barely going to be able to get into, it's just going to become a nightmare. Don't do it. Just wait. Let this frustration and anger don't force you into the wrong next decision, but force you towards we're going to go save up this money so we can get ourselves a house. [Music]

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The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Rei? Feeling stuck with defaulted private student loan payments? Y Refi can reduce your payments and help you regain control of your finances. Take the first step towards getting unstuck. Visit yrefi.com/ramsey.

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And you may not be able to do this in all states. Today's question comes from Cararissa in California. My in-laws plan

to leave their house to all four of their children. >> Oh gosh, don't do that. Sounds simple.

Currently, three of the children live with them, including my spouse and me.

We are planning to move out in a few months as we're saving for a home of our own and hoping to start a family soon.

They've made it clear that to remain included in the will for the house, we would be required to stay living with them longer. What's your advice on navigating the situation both financially and relationally?

>> Fly like an eagle.

>> Yeah, I'm out. And for those reasons, I'm out. >> Yes. What a weird. You gotta live with

us longer to stay. >> Bye, Felicia. Bye, Felicia. Run, run, run, run, run, go, go, go. >> What does longer mean? >> That that just means I'm going to dangle

this dollar bill over your head and you have to do what I say. >> What in the toxic codependency is going on here, John? >> Not to mention, if you stay in this situation, four of y'all are going to have to fight over this house.

>> This feels like a terrible reality show.

>> It does. Yeah. It's like >> It's like Love Island.

no island or no no love.

>> You're stuck here now. Like, yeah. Um I would if this was me and my spouse, me and my wife.

>> Now, if this is a $5 million house and we stood to lose a lot, maybe >> I would have a contract saying all four kids agree that this house will get sold. Correct. Upon their passing, >> the moment it passes, right? >> Cuz no one's going to be able to afford to buy them all out.

So, that means we're all going to be living together in some sort of commune >> or we're all going to like pitch in money every month to keep it going so we can all use it. we're gonna rent it out and we're all gonna collect. No, that's complicated. >> I would do what's best, and this is part of growing up.

I would do what's best for me and my family.

with her husband, and we're going to make a decision on what's best for us.

And if it's best for us to stay right now for whatever reason, seems like there's a lot of you in that house, but if that's what's best for y'all right now, great. We're going to revisit it in three months. We already have the date on the calendar and the breakfast place where we're going to go meet and then we'll do it for another 3 months. Um, but I'm not going to let somebody dangling something over my head control my life.

>> It's that simple. The only part I like about this is that they at least have a will. >> I know. Good on them.

Good. Good for you getting a will. >> Having the conversation while they're still alive about what their plans are so there's no confusion in fights later on.

>> Yes. >> I like it that way. Right in front of you. And Dave always says that like if you're going to put somebody in your will or take somebody out of your will, have the courage to say it to their face.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. We just had to redo our will, you know, we did mirror wills that kind of pour over wills. And it was really it's it's crazy because you have these you have to have these conversations to talk to my in-laws and sister-in-law and brother and say, "Are you okay being financial power of attorney, medical power of attorney?

Would you take care of our kids if something were to happen to both of us?" And so the will is simple. The conversations can be difficult. Yep. >> But you got to have them.

It's so worth it. And I sleep better at night knowing it's done. Cuz here's the truth. Two of Americans die without a will.

Here's what that means.

>> Or as my friend John says, if you die without a will, it's because you hate your family. >> There it is. >> Because you hate your wife and kids or you hate your SP. Like, it's just >> have the courts, the lawyers, and the public enter the most personal parts of our life.

That's that's fun. So, don't let the government decide what happens to your state or even worse, your children. I want to challenge you guys to create your will in August if you haven't already. Or maybe you thought you did, but you're not sure or you kind of halfway did it, but it was never finalized.

Because in less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you.

And if you do find out that an online will fits your situation, you can get 25% off. That's the best deal I've seen on this. Use promo code will month, that's one word, will month at checkout during the month of August. Go check it out. Ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz.

Promo code will month. Get it done. Just

get it done. >> Yeah. I I rarely say this, George. This is one of those few things that is inexcusable. Like I you know, I work with people with traumatized situations all and I there's behaviors that are are

are bad. There's actions people take that are detrimental to their life.

Usually, I can sit down with somebody and walk through it and say, "Okay, I see how you got here." Right? This is inexcusable. Get a will. Just get a will. >> Tomorrow's not promised. So, if you go, "Well, I'll do that later when I'm older." Quote a will. Get a will. Is it uncomfortable? Yes. Do you have to have hard conversations? Yes. But get a will.

Let's go out to Ontario, Canada, and talk to Sean. What up, Sean?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> We're doing all brother.

So, uh, I am looking for a little bit of

advice here. I I'm about to start building, um, a house for my family and,

uh, we had originally done the plans up a couple years ago and we are are just

rethinking a few things. Uh, the original plan was to build a larger house to accommodate um, my in-laws to

be living with us. um they made a series of uh poor financial decisions in the past and we predict that in the near future they will most likely be living with us. However, um we were raised as

my wife and I were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses and we recently left that organization uh to follow Christ. Um her

parents and my parents don't agree uh with our choices and because of that we are we are obviously um if you know anything about that organization were shunned. Um, so they're kind of doing a soft shunting because I haven't been formally kicked out. I've I've I've made managed to keep that that way. Um, but

we are still just trying to plan for the the future because we're we're thinking they are still going to need a place to live whether they want our help or not.

Um, and I'm just wondering if we should be doing that or or if we should be uh

focusing more on building a smaller, more affordable house. Um uh and that kind of brings me to a whole the financial side. I we just sold our house. I I just actually finished building. Um and we're we got about

$400,000 profit from that. And I'm using that $400,000 profit to build the next house. Um and once that house is built,

it'll be worth about two uh two and a half million um depending on the market.

Um, the reason there's such a a large uh

return of on investment is because I'm physically doing all the work myself.

I'm not hiring out sub trades. So, we save a lot of money on that. Um, >> okay. So, let's get let's get to the question. We're going to run out of time here. Okay. Um, >> sorry. >> We'll get to we'll get to the finance question there if we can get to it. As for your your parents and your in-laws or or whatnot. Um, y'all are making a

some big suppositions about their life.

B, you are already pre-planning to the

tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars to help somebody that A hasn't asked for your help, B is appearing to not want your help >> and doesn't even want a relationship with you. >> Correct. And so what I would I'm telling

you, having done this, experienced this, had this conversation a jillion times with different people, sit down and have a grown-up conversation. You're a grown man. And if they can't have the conversation or won't have that conversation, then that is your answer.

Like literally, I am building a house.

We are considering adding a space for y'all to move in if and when y'all need to. Is that something you would be interested in?

>> So, it's not so much that I think that they would even be interested in it. Um, just from past experience, we we personally had to help them uh move out of their house that they lost. Um, and because we told them to stop doing what they're doing, uh, they they moved out of our house once they lost their house and moved in with um, my wife's grandparents. My wife's grandparents are

uh, aging and uh, once they're gone, I

don't know how they're going to afford to stay in that house. >> I know. I know. But listen to me, brother. You're you're trying to solve all of their future problems. >> Yeah. And they are repeatedly telling you, "We don't want your help.

>> We don't want it." >> Yeah. I I I I see what you're saying. I I just can't can't stomach not uh not

trying. >> I I get it. You see the train coming and you see them on the tracks and you're like, "Hey, get out of the way." And they're like, "No, we're good." >> And you've tried to push them off the track. You've tried to pull them off the track. You've tried to invite them off the track and they're telling you, "Leave us alone." >> Yeah. >> And so, if I'm you, I would probably put

some money in an account because I see the train coming and I'm at least going to have to help with the aftermath of this situation. Um, but I wouldn't add a

million-dollar wing to a property. Um, I'm not going to use their potential challenges as an excuse for me to be irresponsible in the present. In fact, it's going to look like entitlement to them to go, "Well, why fix our problems?

They are going to build us a house for free. Sweet deal.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Live from Nashville, Tennessee, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend George Camel.

We're taking your calls on your money, your relationships, your work, and your whole life.

88 8255225.

Let's go out to Kentucky and talk to Jennifer. What up, Jennifer?

>> Hi. Good afternoon.

>> Good afternoon. What's going on?

>> Uh, I've been married about 20 years and we have three children. And when I brought debt to our marriage, I was told I should declare bankruptcy to get rid of the debt before we have children kind of instead of working together, which I did. And after the humiliation of bankruptcy and ruined credit, I didn't want to go back through that. And so I took financial peace.

Um, and I learned a lot. But I learned over time that my husband has a terrible habit of not being able to let go of physical property and things. And it has caused tremendous turmoil and stress.

at least one home taken. Um, we are

currently moved and our other house has

been on the market for a year and we have two mortgages about 600,000 in debt.

Outgoing is about 7,000. Incoming is about 5,000. It's so far beyond impossible. >> Yeah. >> So, you're going 25 grand into debt per year at this rate. >> That's just basic living expenses >> and just trying to keep up.

>> How many properties do you guys have?

>> Two. Only two. And one of them you're living in.

>> Yes. >> Why did the last one get taken?

>> Well, that was years ago. We've had one or two taken because he won't let it go and maybe tried to rent it out or wants to try to fix it up and sell it himself and it just doesn't necessarate.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Okay. How has the house been sitting for a year?

because he wanted to try to sell it himself from another state and I was like, can we just let it go?

>> Where is the other property?

>> Um, in the Midwest.

>> Okay. All right. So, you said you said you said several things in a row. So, you've personally had gone through bankruptcy. Were you married with him at the time or is this a personal bankruptcy? >> We we had just um we we were married,

but we had our own He wanted to keep the finances separate, but I had debt and he wanted me to declare bankruptcy so we could have children. And I was like, "Well, can we work together?" And I'm like, "No, you need to do that." God.

>> And so I did. I did it. But then later when it was all these debt issues, I'm like, "Maybe you should declare bankruptcy. I don't know." And it's like, "No, no, no." I >> do. You guys still have separate finances?

>> It is together now, but I recently actually just opened my own account because I started getting really scared like what's going to happen if I don't put some money somewhere from my income.

But I don't like living behind a person's back either. Like if if you're married, figure out. I know, Jennifer, but y'all have been living apart for your whole marriage.

>> It's never really been together. Is that right?

>> Yeah, he was. Um >> cuz this isn't just money. This doesn't happen in a vacuum. This isn't just somebody isn't that absurd

that you will declare bankruptcy. That's a better option for us coming together,

you being bankrupt, than it is us working together to pay off our debts.

That in and of itself is such madness

that I know for a fact that doesn't just happen with money. That happens with sex and intimacy. That happens with travel.

That happens with where we're going to live. That happens with jobs. It happens with everything, doesn't it?

>> Yes. >> Yes.

>> Y'all haven't been together in 20 years.

Y'all created three amazing kids,

>> right? >> But y'all haven't been together in 20 years. And now you're scared to death.

Yes. >> Yeah. >> What makes up the 600,000 in debt? How much of that is the mortgages?

>> Um on majority of the mortgages, um um

probably at least maybe 550 because there's also a loan on the other house where he wanted to fix up the other house. >> He's got a heliloc on that or a home equity loan.

>> I honestly I don't know. I wasn't involved in that. I mean, my name's on it, but I don't I don't know. Yeah, of course your name's on it cuz he couldn't get the loan without your name on it.

>> So, your A1 is to get all the facts. And that means we're both going to pull a credit reports. You can do that for free. Go to annualcreditreport.com and just lay it all out. How much debt do we actually have as a family? Now,

what can we do to clean this up and focus on the consumer debt first while trying to list these properties? And he needs to be working with an agent. It sounds like these have been for sale by owner and he's just sort of figuring it out. Jennifer, can I ask you a person?

I finally just get to that point.

>> Uh, he finally did agree cuz I mean, if he didn't, it was over. I mean, but now we're all >> over our marriage.

>> So, this was an ultimatum.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, let me put it this way. Your old marriage is over. Period.

And what y'all are going to have to do now if y'all want to a stay married,

>> b stay sane, is y'all going to have to create a new marriage with a whole

different operating system.

And you're confident that he's in

>> started it, but then he went out of um out of state to go work to try to make some money to see if he can make ends meet. So we haven't been able to really do any of it together >> because he's gone. What kind of work does he do? >> Well, he's um a teacher, but he's been he also can remodel and do construction.

So, he's been working to remodel someone's house out of state.

>> There was no work in the entire state of Kentucky. There was no work for remodeling. >> Well, this opportunity came about because of a conversation with a friends of ours and they're like, "Hey, we're going to remodel this house on our property." I can do that. >> What do you make? Are you working?

>> I I am. Yes. >> Okay. What do you make?

>> Oh, goodness. I probably make maybe 2300

2600 a month maybe.

>> Okay. So, you're making like >> together >> $12 an hour. What are you doing for work? >> I teach. >> Okay. And you're both teachers?

>> Yes, but he makes a bit more than I do because I was home with the kids for a long time. So, >> Okay. Have you guys ever just sat down and laid out all the facts and created a budget and said, "Hey, this isn't working. We're not here to attack each other. Let's just make a game plan." we

did finally make one as we were starting a financial piece before he went out of town. Um but I mean and I thought okay

we're turning things around and hey I think you know we need to maybe change this and I don't want to do this again with the houses but then we even argue over like my car. We've argued over my car and multiple cars even of mine over the years that are not practical or not affordable. And it's like now it's at the point where it's at a level of miles and at a level of maintenance need where it's even more not affordable.

>> How much do you guys have in car loan debt? >> There's no car loan debt at all. None.

>> Okay. How much do you have in savings?

>> That's now gone. Completely gone.

>> Okay. So, we are at baby step zero.

>> Yes. So, with your next paycheck, can you put away $1,000?

>> No. >> And still cover the bills?

>> Is he bringing in money actively right now? >> No.

>> Well, I mean, he's he'll get paid from this job, but I mean, if there's 7,000 going out and 5,000 coming in,

>> I have no idea. >> Jennifer, let me let me just let me cut to the chase. He's he's

as soon as he he got you off his back,

he said, "Sure, honey. I'm going to do this thing." and he found the next job out of town and he took off on you

and he's hassling you over the phone.

He's spending money while he's gone.

>> No, he's really he's really not. He's really not. Um he's staying with the Yes, cuz these are friends and he's he's working from the time he wakes up until about 1 the next morning almost every day on their house. >> Okay. Maybe he maybe he has made this change and it's just not translating.

You all need a marriage counselor. >> You're on different planets right now, correct? and y'all have a huge financial

hole, but it's built on a house of a crumbling marriage. And y'all have to get that aligned if you're going to move forward. And as George said, you've got a math problem. And it may be that you got to find a different teaching job in a different district cuz you've got to deal with your income problem and you got to get some money and savings cuz you're in a very unsafe situation.

[Music] [Applause]

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Let's go out to the 512 in Austin, Texas, and talk to Elijah. What's up, Elijah?

>> Hi. What's up?

>> Well, I'm trying to currently get out of my car, but the engine gave out on me, and now I'm wondering whether or not to fix it or try to sell it off as is without the >> Oh, get out of your car. Get rid of it.

Not like open the door handle. I was like, man, you called the wrong show, dude. I don't know how to be Me and Jo George are not mechanically inclined.

>> Yikes. Okay, what's left on the loan?

>> 35,000.

>> Wow. And what's the repair cost

>> for a brand new engine? 16,000 and for a

rebuilt one 10,000.

>> Okay, let's go with the 10,000 number.

And how much do you have currently, if anything? >> I have a couple thousand. >> Okay. And what is the car worth as is?

>> I haven't checked on it in a while. So, I'm I'm probably sitting around 28.

>> Okay. And if you fixed it up, it's obvious you're underwater on this car.

>> Yes. >> Okay. What would it be worth if you got this engine repaired?

>> I haven't figured that out. >> Okay, I would figure those pieces out.

The key is you you don't want to make repairs uh if it's not going to ROI for you if the car is not going to be worth that in this situation. I think it would be worth it to do the repairs, but you can't afford it in cash right now.

>> Yes, I can. >> How much do you have exactly?

>> I have about like uh 2,000.

>> 2,000. And what do you make a month?

>> Around $4,000.

>> Okay. So, it would take you a long time at this point to save up that 10 grand to even do the repairs.

>> Yes, >> man.

I would at least find out what it's worth today and find out what that number is you're underwater on. You might need to take out a loan to to offload it and get out of the situation

alto together, but it's going to hurt either way. There's going to be a stupid tax to be paid. What kind of car is it?

>> Uh Ford Mustang.

>> And are you certain there's no recalls on it? There's no extended warranty or

there's nothing there's nothing under the like in the fine print there?

>> I I passed my warranty period by 2,000

miles. I'm sitting at 62,000.

>> I think it's worth reaching out to him.

>> I did that and I don't have anything >> really. Yeah, >> they just said, "We don't care about you." Here's what's amazing, George and Elijah. I was talking to um a guy came over early this morning to my house, was fixing my sprinkler, and he was talking about his engine blew up in a GMC, and he just I mean, he was heartbroken. He said um that his young son said, "Why is granddad's car truck still running?" And he said, "They used to have pride when they made these cars and they just simply don't anymore.

before earlier this year and I had to take out a loan for it with my credit union so I haven't

I've gone back to them to see if I I could take any more money.

>> I would at least check because I I'd rather see you instead of 35,000 in debt, 15 or 20,000 in debt. At least reduce your debt load and then you're still going to need something to drive around, right? >> Yes. >> You need a car for work?

>> Yes, I do. >> Man, you might need to just go on Facebook Marketplace and find the cheapest beater you can find that's still running and has cold AC.

And that might be your next step. But you're you're pausing the baby steps essentially. You're in a storm mode just trying to save up every dollar you can, working side hustles, trying to just get a beater so that you can still drive around, get to work to keep income coming in. Right.

>> Right. >> What are your transportation needs right now to get to work? Could you carpool, rent a car? What are your options?

>> Public transportation, >> family, help me out, and then I have time to just take Uber.

>> What other debt do you have?

I have uh credit card debt.

>> Okay. How much is that?

>> That is around

5,000. >> Are you living alone?

>> No, I don't live with family.

>> Okay. So, your expenses are super low, I

hope. >> Yes. >> What are your monthly expenses comparatively to your income? You make four grand. How much of that's going out to bills?

Is that a,000 bucks to cover your bills?

>> 2,000?

>> Yeah, it's around,000. >> Okay. What that tells me is within the next month, you should have $3,000 left over that can go towards this beater car fund. Correct.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I think your best bet is to just sell the car as is to a private buyer and get as much as you can for it cuz I don't know that that trying to fix it up and then sell it is going to be feasible for you in the foreseeable future.

>> Okay, >> but man, this this sucks. There's no easy answers here. I wish I had a magic just go to this website and it'll solve all your problems. The problem happened initially when a guy making 50 grand got a $40,000 Mustang. And so this this part

is hard to undo cuz this is the ramifications of that of what can happen is you go underwater on it. There's a repair issue. You have no savings. And so you're going to have to borrow from family for now and use that income of yours and get it up and try to get out of the situation.

And Elijah, let me tell you the good and the bad here. Okay. >> Okay. >> The bad is you're in for about 18 months of like being embarrassed cuz you're a guy that likes a nice ride, right?

>> Yes, I do. You're a guy that likes a nice ride more than he likes his own place. You'd rather live with your mom and have a nice car, right? Than than have an a nice apartment and drive a crumbier car.

And so this is going to be you for the next 18 months walking around town or driving around town or Ubering around town.

want to hang your head in shame, I want you to hold your head up high and remember this moment and say the words, "This will never happen to me again. I'll never put image. I'll never put what other people

think about me ahead of my own financial

safety ever, ever, ever again. Not for me, not for my family, not for anybody.

And then the good thing is this may be that moment that frees you forever from what other people think because that's where you got that's where you end up in this nonsensical mess, dude. And so that's my hope for you, man. That's my absolute hope for you. >> I'd also go do some more homework on a rebuilt engine. see if you can find one elsewhere for cheaper. Cuz if you can find one for 5 grand, now it's feasible.

You got 2 grand in savings, you'll make three grand in the next month to throw at it. This might be a solvable problem or at least limit the damage. U so I would do more homework before you >> every single mechanic in the Austin area and shake someone's hand and look them in the eye and say, "I'm in a mess. Can you help out?" Um, or can you can I

outsource this to one of your guys and just do this off book and I'll pay them cash, but I'm in a mess and I need I literally need somebody in my local community to step up and help me out.

And um maybe you'll get lucky and maybe

somebody will laugh at you and say, "Get out, get out of here." And you might do that 10 times, but maybe the 11th somebody will will um have mercy on you and say, "Yeah, I'll let this mechanic of mine work on it on Saturdays and Sundays here in the shop um for cash." Uh, I mean I I'm I'm just spitballing here, George, but um

>> the cancer of our culture right now, one of many, is I care what other people

think about me from the outside in instead of I'm at peace. I'm going to

I'm going to enter into the world that way. I'm going to drive around in a car that I can't afford. Um, live at my mom's house so that I can have this like I'm going to make all these other concessions so that I can have this nice thing. And then man, one thing goes wrong and I got to borrow money to fix this nice thing. And then now the nice thing explodes even further and it just we just see this time after time after time. House, car, um college loans with

the promise of a job on the other end.

It's just it's a constant drum beat we hear. >> Y >> um and it just breaks it breaks my heart for Elijah, man. >> Yeah. the the cars are the number one wealth killer. And when you do them with debt, it just makes that exponentially

painful and risky. And so, think about it. If you pay cash for a car, you can't be underwater. You can always sell that car. You have the title free and clear.

But when there's debt on it, there's a high chance you're going to be under underwater on it soon enough. And most people that take on car payments don't have a fully funded emergency fund to cover the repairs. So, put yourself in a good position. Drive what you can afford now.

drive like no one else now so you can drive like no one else later and I will die on that hill.

driving pretty crummy cars.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Dr. John Deloney.

So, John, I've got a YouTube channel and what we try to do is help people build wealth, especially young people who go, I don't want to wait till I'm 65 to enjoy my life. I get it. But we also know if you don't think about the future, plan for it, invest for it, then you'll never have money and you'll retire broke, which is not okay in America today. Cuz it's really easy to retire a millionaire.

And yet, most people don't. Is it easy, George? It's Well, here's the thing. The math of it is easy.

>> Okay, there you go.

>> How do I lose weight? Diet and exercise.

Like it's easy, but it's hard.

>> And as you know, as you know, it's harder to make progress.

>> There you go. Yeah. >> When you're 24bits, we all had abs at 24. >> Yes. >> Right. >> I mean, I was I I've always had a thing for gummy candies. Just saying. >> Okay, that's fair. But I thought it would be fun, and I've done this on my channel, is use our investment calculator to show you exactly how much you would need to invest based on your age in order to have a $1 million nest egg. Cuz here's the stat. Only 3% of US

adults have a million bucks saved for retirement. Nearly half of Americans have under 10 grand saved and 26% have

nothing in any retirement account. And some of that's due to, you know, living paycheck to paycheck. Some of it's financial literacy. But if you're listening to this show, listening to this segment, you now have no excuse.

You know too much to retire broke.

>> All right, bring it on. >> Here we go. So, we're gonna start with >> Save the Day, GK. >> Let's start with that 24-y old with that. A young Dr. John, brighteyed,

bushy tailed, ready to take on the world. And this is also assuming you're following the Ramsay plan, which means we're not going to take on crippling debt and car payments and student loans and credit card debt. But let's say you're ready to invest. We recommend 15% into into retirement. And we're going to even go lower than that. We're going to go 150 bucks a month from age 24 to age

62. Let's see what happens. I've got it pulled up. If you're watching on YouTube, you can see in real time.

We use this investment calculator on our website, which is free. We'll link it in the description. So, you have nothing saved. We're starting from zero, and we're going to invest 150 bucks a month, and we're going to assume an 11% rate of return.

Now, John, people are already they're angry. They're already typing comments on YouTube going, "Where's this guy getting 11% on his investments?" This is just historical data from the S&P 500.

you're going to see an average rate of return of 11%. So, we're going to use that as our number. And what do we find, John? 1 million bucks. And guess what?

68,000 of that was John's contributions.

964,000 was growth. That is the power of starting early. And you'll see what I mean as we move on to our next example.

Let's say you're 35. You have nothing saved. You got a hold of this plan a little bit later on in life. And let's also say you work a little bit later, 65, nothing saved in retirement. You would need to invest 375 a month, which again is not even close to the 15% parameter we recommend. Way lower. But even then, at 11%, you'll see you have just over a million bucks. But at this point, the growth was 916,000. your contributions were 135,000.

>> Is that real? >> That's real math. And here's the thing.

I love how math can be encouraging.

>> If 24 year old me put 150 bucks away

every month, >> that's it. 150 bucks. That's like Door Dash money. That's like all of your subscriptions combined for a month money.

It's really not that much. The problem is human behavior. We don't have the consistency, the discipline to just put away that money and not go spend it elsewhere. and we go, "Well, that's a problem for future John to deal with." 35-year-old John, when he's an adult and he's got like a family and stuff, he'll figure it out. Except we know that that's not how life works. >> I want to go back and just

>> give a whooping to 24y old me.

>> I know. I feel the same way. So, don't get discouraged. Let's move on to 45.

Or, you know what? Let's actually do 15%. Let's Let's look at that 35year-old who actually invests 15%. Average household income is $80,000 in America.

15% of that is a,000 bucks a month. All right. So, let's look at what happens when you invest a,000 bucks a month instead of 375.

2.8 million. So, for those of you going, "Well, John, a million bucks isn't going to be anything when I Okay, how about 2.8 million? Can we concede that's a lot of money no matter where you came from?" Good. >> And that's if you never get a raise.

35 to 65. 2.8 million if you invest a,000 bucks a month. Let's move on to the 45 year olds. a lot of people listening who went, "Man, I wish I could go back to when I was 35 and do this stuff." Let's say you're 45.

You have not a dime saved in retirement. Now, the truth is the math is going to differ here. You need to invest more to still achieve a million bucks.

which again is still about a six figure household income investing 15%. And you can see you can still retire a millionaire at 65 years old with a million bucks in that account even if you start from nothing at 45 years old.

>> I know, George, but here's the big thing you're leaving out my feelings.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. Let's hear it. How do you feel about >> this? Just feels unfair.

I don't know. I was trying to say something. >> And now here's the other thing, John. People go, "Well, must be nice.

Who's got 1,200 bucks to invest?" And I go, "Hey, how much is your student loan?" "Well, that's 400 bucks a month." "Hey, what's your car payment?" "Well, that's 600 bucks a month." "Hey, what are your credit card minimums?" "What? That's 200 bucks a month. I think I found 1,200 bucks. >> Yeah.

There in lies the power and simplicity of the Ramsay plan.

>> When you don't owe people money, you have money left over. When you have money left over and you're willing to make sacrifices for future you, you will invest said money. So that's the big secret is live on lesson you make. Don't owe other people money. invest the surplus and you will be unbelievably wealthy. >> And that means in the short term, not to minimize it, you've got to be very intentional about driving the car you need to survive about um not

going out and figuring out ways to have people over to go out to the park. Is any of that cool? No. It's awful. And postponing in these days postponing buying a house for maybe 10 years longer than it took me to buy my first house, right? Like that's the reality. Those are expensive. Um but it is changing the

way TV and Instagram says you should be

living and saying, "Okay, based on this set of realities, we're going to live this way." And so we're going to figure out how to have a great wonderful life in in this in this little reality that

we live in. And my promise is if you can

choose to live in that, you can choose to find joy and laughter. And um yeah,

it is what it is, man. Well, what's crazy is is to be truly wealthy, it has to be invisible to others. Nobody can see the balance of my 401k, but they can see what what's in my driveway.

>> That's the problem is we get way too excited about the thing going down in value in our driveway instead of the invisible number happening in our in an account somewhere in a 401k because it doesn't feel real and it doesn't affect our life right now. But the idea is we're still using either one of those proxies as some sort of value statement on what we're worth instead of doing the harder work on our spiritual lives, our relational lives, our um our emotional

and and and mental health to say no, I've got value just because. And I'm going to go do the next right thing for me and my family where we want to be when we're 65 years old. And I don't want to be like this other family. I don't want to have cut off my kids due to value differences and then have to go beg them to build us a wing in their new house, right? Like, so we have to reverse engineer where we want to be at 65 and just choose that reality.

>> Yeah. Do you want to be a financial burden to your family or do you want to leave an inheritance to your children's children? >> Right. >> You get to choose. >> But that choice, as far as that calculator goes, that choice begins at 24. That choice begins at 35.

>> Yeah. Building wealth in 2035 starts in 2025. >> I think that's an important thing. That's the hard part to grapple with because we live for today.

Everything is just this ephemeral quick hit that we need as we scroll social media and the calculators, you know, only so many people get excited about a calculator. I love a good calculation. I love a good spreadsheet. >> One time you and I were at a punk rock show and you're like pulled out one of your earplugs and you're like, "Hey, hold on.

Check this out." And you're like doing facts and figures in the mosh pit. It was pretty >> That's true. I stay away from the mosh pit as a guy who's short. It just most people's elbows are right where my face is.

So, it's not ideal. Not ideal.

hope that encourages you. And listen, if you're 50, you're 55, even if you're 60,

yes, it's going to be harder, but you have catch-up contributions. Hopefully, you're making more than you ever have made in your entire life. So, there's still time to retire with dignity. And I can even show you, John, from 50 to age, let's say, 67, you're going to have to work a little bit longer. You start with nothing. You invest a,000 bucks a month.

You can still have $600,000 if you start at 50 with zero dollars.

So, let that be an encouragement to you.

You don't need to have a $20 million net worth, but there's also no reason to retire broke and hope that social insecurity covers the bills. Cuz if you've listened to the show long enough, you know it doesn't. I don't want you to be that person. You can do better.

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead. Join one of our free every dollar trainings. They are new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsay personalities. Me, Jade, Ken, George, even Rachel Cruz.

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>> Wow. >> I was impressed. >> I know. We're impressed, too. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget and even find up to 9,000 bucks of margin using Every Dollar so you can get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any of the questions you'd like during the live Q&A. Sign up for free at ramseysolutions.comweinar.

Let's go out to Charlotte, North Carolina, and talk to Elizabeth. What up, Elizabeth?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? Thanks so much for taking my call. >> You got it. What's up?

>> So, um, I started listening to the podcast back in April because I was just really sick of being in credit card debt. >> Welcome to the cult, Elizabeth.

>> Welcome. >> Yeah. So, um, and I just I wasn't being able to save money like I wanted to. So, I'm in baby step number two. I made my first budget and I can start seeing like where I was completely overspending and so I can cut back. But, I'm 51. I'm

married. I have an 11-year-old daughter.

I've got about $20,000 in credit card debt and I am trying to attack this debt

and but I can't stop making myself contribute to my 401k and her 529

because I feel like I'm not doing what I can do to help us prepare for retirement and her school as she gets older. And so

I just I'm just having a hard time following the baby steps in order and just not kind of need some help trying to make that make sense in my head because I just really want to get rid of this credit card debt because I just feel like it's just hanging over my head and I just hate it. >> So you want us to persuade you to pause investing altogether to get out of debt faster? >> Yeah.

already but it's just you know I just I feel like I would have to pause for a really long time and I just feel like I would put us behind. >> What's your total debt? How much total consumer debt? >> So right now um I've got about $20,000

in credit card debt. We own our cars. We

have a mortgage um left and a home loan

that's got about 67,000 on it and we have about 97,000 left on our mortgage.

>> So you have a second mortgage.

>> We Yeah, we took like it was like it's not a heliloc but it was like a a personal home loan that we took out.

>> So the consumer debt is a credit card debt of 20K.

>> Correct. >> So that's the focus. Is that across multiple cards?

>> Yeah. Uh two cards. >> Okay. And what is your income? What's your gross household or your your gross income that you're investing off right now? Um uh it's about $50,000 after taxes. >> What about before?

>> Um it was um it hovers because I I kind of do a base salary and commission.

Okay. >> So it's usually about like 57,000 I would probably say. >> And how much are you investing as a percentage right now? >> Um I was doing 15%.

>> Okay. >> So about $300 a paycheck.

>> So right now you are investing 300 bucks a paycheck and you get paid twice a month. >> Correct. >> So about 600 bucks is what you'd free up. >> Correct. Have you calculated how much interest you're paying on that credit card debt every single month?

>> Uh, one's 19% and one's 15%. So,

>> so are you doing the math at home?

>> Compound interest works both ways.

>> So, here's what you're really doing. You're basically borrowing money to invest.

>> Think about that. Would you go into credit card debt to the tune of 20% APR in order to put 15% of your income into retirement >> to make 11% return?

No, >> that's essentially what we've done and what we continue to do. And the other part of this is you haven't found momentum. I mean, you're 51 going, I got to clean this up. I got to invest for the future. You're trying to do 17 things at once and you're not making progress. So, at this current rate, how long would it take you to pay off your credit card debt while you're doing these other things?

>> Uh, probably like I would say two or three years, probably. Would you agree that it sucks to be paying 20 grand of credit card debt over 3 years?

>> Yes. >> So, what if we said, "Hey, we're going to buckle down for less than a year. In less than 12 months, we're going to be out of this debt. We're going to get an emergency fund." Which when's the last time you had a fully funded emergency fund? >> Uh, probably never. I've got the $1,000, but never the fully funded emergency fund. >> Picture that future for Elizabeth. 18 months from now. You have no debt. You owe nobody anything except the mortgages and you have a fully funded emergency fund. How good would that feel?

>> It would feel great because I have anxiety about it all the time. >> Okay. Can I Can I um go one step further? >> Sure. >> You How much of a gangster do you want to be right now?

>> Uh I will I would like to be a big one.

>> Big- time gangster. >> So, you're gonna you're going to drink two ladles of our cult Kool-Aid right now. You ready? >> Okay. I want you to sit down with your 11-year-old and I want you to Is it a boy or a girl?

>> It's a girl. >> I want you to tell her, "Mommy has a 529 account, which is where I'm saving for college for you, but mommy borrowed a

whole bunch of money on these things called credit cards that are no good.

And I'm going to pause putting money in for college, and I'm going to get this cleaned up." Because here's what I'm hearing in you.

I'm hearing a a a a weight a like a like

a ruck bag full of

weight full of bricks of shame.

>> Yes. >> You're a good mom.

In fact, you're a freaking amazing mom.

Okay.

And the reason I want you to sit down with your 11-year-old because um shame

eats secrets.

That's how it grows.

And so, I'm going to sit down my 11-year-old and say, "I made some choices early on, and I've learned new things, and I'm sorry. We're going to have this much money. We're going to have less than that now, but your mommy is working really hard with dad, and we're going to be free." And your 11-year-old will go, "Uh, okay. Can I have some chips?" And you'll be like, "Yeah, that's fine." But you'll you'll know for you, I sat down and stared this thing literally in the face and put on the table.

This is who I am. I made some mistakes financially. I have, George has, Dave has. we all have.

And so I'm going to own that and I'm going to go do the next right thing.

19% to make 11 for some future version

of you because you feel ashamed in the present doesn't make sense on any level.

>> Right. >> Are you doing this alone, Elizabeth?

>> No. I mean, like I said, I just kind of found everything and so I'm my husband

is on board because he's feeling the same way. Um, but >> is he doing the same thing? is does he also make money? He's also investing.

>> Yes. >> What does he make?

>> Um he makes um after taxes probably about 81.

>> And what debt does he have? Is he not helping pay this credit card debt off?

>> No, he's we we had we've had we're trying to combine everything right now.

We had everything separate.

>> Okay. What is trying to combine look like for you guys? Um, we are basically

opening, we opened up a new account and we're basically getting everything set up to go into that account and be coming out. >> Good. >> Like this, which is >> He makes 81, you make 57.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you guys make like $140,000 a year.

Isn't that crazy?

>> Yeah. >> Like the gross number that flows through your hands per year is astounding. And

so you can knock out 20k of credit card debt real fast making 140 grand.

>> Yeah. >> Because you're are you bringing home like eight grand a month as a couple?

>> Uh yes. >> Okay. Think about that. >> Got it. That's what I kind of figured out. >> Could you live off four and throw the other four credit card debt?

>> Um >> because that's five months you're debtree. That's just the math.

>> I think I think I I think we could.

We're just, like I said, we're we're did a budget and we figured out where we're overspending and so I think we probably could. We're just going to have to work on it. >> All right. So, Elizabeth, I'm I'm willing to put some skin in the game if you are. Are you in?

>> Yes, I am. >> How allin?

>> I'm all in. >> All right. Here's the deal. If you promise me you're 100% allin, >> we're going to send you Financial Peace the digital course. I want you and your husband to watch online lessons, not just a bunch of YouTube clips. Okay.

>> Okay. Okay. Number two, we're going to hook you up with the Every Dollar app that y'all can use together and connect it to your bank account for a year, the premium version. Okay.

>> Okay. >> You promise you're going to use them both? >> Yes, I will.

>> If you will make me a commitment that you two are because this is going to require redoing how y'all do your marriage, right? >> Right. Exactly. If you'll commit to this, I'll give you and your husband two seats to my Valentine's Day uh marriage retreat here in Nashville, Tennessee with Rachel Cruz at the Money and Marriage. >> Oh, wow. That would be amazing.

>> Are you in? >> Yeah, I will be in. >> It's Valentine's Day weekend. It's a Jill. It's a It's expensive ticket and you all can come to Nashville and come to the retreat on me if you're in.

Promise. >> I I would love that. Thank >> the stakes are high. >> Game on. Game on. I I put some my cards

down the table. Now it's your turn.

Can't wait to see you in February during Valentine's Day weekend. This is the time you change your life.

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[Music] Live from Nashville, Tennessee, it's the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney, joined by George Campbell, taking your calls from all over the planet on your life, your money, your relationships, your work, whatever you got going on in your life.

We're here to sit with you and help you figure out the next right move.82552.

888255225.

Let's go to the state of Kentucky and talk to Bethany. >> It's actually a Commonwealth, John, the Commonwealth of Kentucky. What's up, Bethany?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. I'm excited to get your perspective on my situation today.

>> Go for it. >> Um, okay. So, I um I'm a married mom of

three kids, married to my best friend.

We are very blessed. Um, financially, we're in a good spot. We have about a $2 million net worth. Um, we've worked very hard, you know, ever since we got married 18 years ago. Um, and both of us have always worked full-time. So, you know, early on in our relationship, we talked about goals and, you know, I never had a goal to be a stay-at-home home mom or to work part-time. Um, but

then things change and so now we're finding ourselves in a place where um, our oldest is about to go into high school and I think for me it's like the mom guilt of I don't have time to really

spend quality time with my children. Our youngest is seven. And so I'm seeing, you know, the perspective of a teenager and then a early elementary student. And I'm just seeing it all just kind of play out so quickly. So, I want to stay at home more. And my husband has kind of

come to where he's like, "Yeah, it's fine." But I know he's just saying it's fine because he wants to make me happy and I want to make sure I'm not being selfish, I guess, in my desire to be at

home more. Um, because it's not really

our goals. I guess it's more like my goals have changed.

>> I I think so. >> I think you're going to get yourself into trouble or it's you're ripe for resentment.

for both of you. And that's that's a place in a relationship that's very very hard, if not impossible, to come back from.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'll tell you, your your your goals are noble and they're great. And your husband's goals, whatever they are, I'm certain they're noble and great. He's not on the phone, so I don't know what his goals are. I'm more concerned that this is the part, let me say it this way, the number of students who came to my university wherever I happened to be working and got dropped off and that was the day their parents split up was was I can't count them all. And it started with little moments like this.

>> Yeah. when I start building my life, you start building your life. And suddenly you wake up and that that kid of yours that's in elementary school is going off to college 10 years from now and you realize we are on two different planets.

And so what I really would love you all to do is to >> like circle all the way back and say, "Hey, who do we want to be?" >> And I'm with you. I got a 15-year-old that I'm working every day of my life to not pre be sad that he's going to be gone in three years. Cuz I literally love having him around. Like not just he's my kid.

I love the kid around. He's hilarious. He's fun. All that.

And then I have an elementary school daughter that I can't wait till she go. I'm glad she's here, too. But like like um I'm right in the same spot with you and my wife and I are doing the exact same thing right now. Like who do we want to be in this many years and how do we reverse engineer that right now?

>> Yeah. >> Why doesn't he want you to stay at home?

>> Well, so it's not that he doesn't want me to. It's just I think he makes comments like, you know, I kind of expected you to want to do this when they were younger. You know, he's like, why now? And for me, it's, you know, I want to be able to, I guess, cook a cook

a good meal. And, you know, instead of we're constantly picking up fast food.

>> What is he actually worried about? >> Yeah. What's he saying? Because that's a that's a that's a grenade he just pulls a pin on and hands you.

I just thought you'd be somebody different 15 years ago. >> Yeah. Well, and I think it's because, you know, we've always talked about it and it's always been, and here's where I think it's coming from. Neither of us come from a family that had a mom who stayed at home.

Both of our moms worked full-time. >> Okay.

>> I mean, no. >> Okay. So, the whole So, that model doesn't work. Doesn't matter.

>> Yeah. >> Y'all are creating something completely new. >> Is he worried about money being tight?

What's actually behind it? >> No, I don't. I don't think it's as much money being tight as it is the example we're setting for our kids because he he said things like, you know, >> so he thinks because my mommy worked, that was a great example for me and if you stay at home, it's going to be a bad example for our kids cuz they're going to realize that having mom around is awesome. What's the what's going to happen? What is he really scared about?

The kids are seeing the best example that this is what happens when you set yourself up for freedom, margin, flexibility, and options. We get to have a present mom who's not stressed.

>> We get to do we get to do we get to do whatever we want, >> having great experiences. >> You were about to say something. What were you saying, Bethany?

>> Well, I was just going to say, so um you know, the oldest has,

you know, childhood memories of me working full-time. the youngest, you know, is kind of in that age where she's just going to really, I guess, her memories are just kind of starting to get shaped. You know, she's at seven and so I think his his concern is, you know,

the oldest had a working mom. I don't know how the youngest will perceive >> and I mean, I get what y'all are saying.

>> That's nonsense. I'm telling you right now, that's not Let me Let me tell you how kids memories work. They work nervous system out.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And so a kid is going to um have encoded in

their body literally this was a safe place to be or this was an unsafe place to be. >> I was loved and it was warm and it was a it was my home base or it was a place where I had to have some sort of mechanism to control for safety. I had to perform. I had to get straight A's. I had to punch a hole in the sheetrock. I had to get between mom and dad. Whatever. That's that's what they they're encoded for.

And so if mom and dad were united working together because they both came from situations where money was tight and tough that your oldest kid is going to benefit from a united mom and dad who are working towards a goal.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm going to be honest, the data tells me your oldest kid missed out on some stuff, too.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And your 11-year-old is going to

have a parent at home, >> but is also going to be encoded in mom and dad sort of split up little by little >> in the living room. That's that this idea that like my wife talks often about how my son would come visit her and her when she was a professor. My son knew my my wife as Dr. Deloney. My daughter doesn't >> and she laments that. But I'm in no way

are we going to put that on the kids.

>> Yeah. >> Right. You get what I'm saying?

>> I do. >> Your husband may not like you being a stay at home mom. What are you going to do all day? And if that's nonsense that's going through his head, y'all need to sit down and have that conversation. But to blame it on the kid, well, what's the kid going to think of you? That your 11-year-old doesn't get a vote.

>> She's 11. >> And I think I think I can see the value

that I would bring in staying home more because I'm a mom. And I think because

I'm a husband I'm a dad and I see that value. >> Yeah. >> You don't need to pitch this like a shark tank. >> Yeah. Dude, you're not trying to convince us. >> George's wife just resigned a couple years. Was it a year and a half ago? >> Yeah. She was a rockstar executive here uh executive assistant here at Ramsey.

And after nine years, she decided I'm going to stay at home with my family. >> You don't have to convince us. And my wife has worked and she'll go back to like So it's not like a it

Yeah. Yeah, y'all need to sit down and get aligned cuz I think my my gut tells me this is a way way deeper issue, Bethany.

>> Okay, >> that in fact, I'd almost guarantee it.

He's got a picture in his head of what life's going to look like and he may have respect issues that he's passing on to your kid, whatever. You need to get to the bottom of those things and come out as as a united front.

>> This is not about the kids. >> Yeah. This is about you and your husband get on the same page for what kind of life do we want to have and who do we want to become? Start there.

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It is a weird time in the real estate market and buying your or selling your home, it's a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines, conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month, about $441,000.

The number of homes for sale hit a million for the second month in a row.

So, there's a lot more supply out there, and it's really turning into a buyer market. Buyers have more options, more negotiating power, and sellers face some competition. So, the average 15-year fixed rate held steady at around 6% last month. So, if you're debtree, you got a fully funded emergency fund, you have a solid down payment, now could actually be a great time to buy or sell your home.

moment.

>> All right, let's go out to Maine and talk to Chuck. What up, Chuck?

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Good. What's up with you?

>> So, um I've got about 260 and change in

my um Roth IRA and we owe 255. My wife

and I owe 255 on our primary residence and I was just about to pull the trigger on paying off the primary residence with the Roth from the Roth. Um I'm I'm 60 so there's no problem with any penalties or anything or any kind of any taxes. Um and then all of a sudden a house popped up that um we're thinking about buying for my daughter our daughter uh and her husband. My daughter is special needs.

She's um autistic, high functioning um and he's also autistic and high functioning. But they they are the jobs

that they have. I don't think that the income that they can make, I don't think they're ever going to be able to buy their own house. So, a couple years ago, we said we'd buy them a house, but we were going to be three years out from doing that because some other things, but now this has popped up. So, we're trying to figure out, do we pay off our own house or do we try and pull the trigger on this one?

>> How much other money do you guys have in retirement?

>> So, we're doing really well. Um, we've got my wife has 184 in her Roth. Um,

I've got 880 in a um in a rollover IRA

and regular IRA, traditional IRA, and my wife's got 130 in her in a 401k. So,

we're doing really well. Um, and we've got two other we've got um a primary house, we've got a second house in Arizona, and we've got two rental properties in Arizona. >> And those all have mortgages, or they paid for? >> Um, they all the houses have mortgages.

Um, but uh they were they're worth way

more than what the the mortgages are.

>> Okay. I mean, on paper, you are doing really well. I think there's more risk here than you think because things are going okay right now. So, I would just caution you to not just throw money in random directions. I would love for you guys to be able to retire with no debt whatsoever and then reassess the situation. So, for your daughter, uh what is the urgency to get them a house right now? Can they rent? Can they afford that?

>> Um, not they can rent, but um I think

it's more of just if something happened to us, we want to make sure that they've already they're already in a house and and they're taken care of and they just have to take care of the taxes and insurance. >> Did one pop up in your neighborhood that's going to be about that 260 and you think you can just cover it? Well, it would be it would be like in in this

area it's like 380, but um so we would put two we would uh put 260 down or 230 down, excuse me, and then have a mortgage for 6 months and then when my wife hits 59 and a half, she would tap her Roth and we'd pay the balance off.

>> Can I tell you um a rule of thumb I use for my house? There there's this is just a a rule in the Delhoney house. Anytime my wife and I are faced with an eitheror

decision, we force ourselves to put two or three or four other options on the table just to see.

Cuz almost every bad decision I've made in my life, it was either this or that.

And I forced myself into a false binary decision here. And so right when you're talking, the first thing that popped into my head was, what if you did both?

What if you sold one of those properties in Arizona, you paid the other one off, used your Roth, paid your house off, and then you got your kids into a $320,000 house? You can do it all and not have to

play the shell game anymore.

>> 100%. The only issue is we've lost that on houses here that around here houses are 500,000. I mean, little tiny little postage stamps, 1,000 square feet are 500, 600,000. It's crazy.

Um, and this one popped up at 380,000 square feet and it's 15 minutes from us for >> No, no. I mean I mean you can you might not do it in that order, right? You might put 260 down on it and pull your Roth and put 260 down on it and and then put your other house on the market. You'd have to be disciplined to do those things.

Um, >> oh, I see.

So that makes complete sense. But um what's going on is the other the second house in Arizona um it uh if we sold

that right now there would be um capital gains on it. We were planning on living in that house for 2 years so we wouldn't have to pay capital gains on selling that house. >> And you you've created a real complicated situation for yourself with this long distance. No, we can't do that cuz we have to live.

So we're going to have to move our entire life out there and find double stamp. Yeah. Pay taxes and move all your life. >> We're not doing We plan on doing that anyway.

We're trying to get out the winners and split toast. So, we're going to do that anyway. >> Okay. >> I I'm I'm a fan of just living a simple life.

Um, and I want you guys debtree before you go gift a house to your daughter.

And so, that plan might need to wait. I would personally liquidate the property.

Pay the taxes. I wouldn't play the game that you're playing personally. And I would just simplify it. Have no debt because right now you're saying, "Hey, things are going really well. Sounds like you have a million dollars of debt floating around out there at the same time, right?" Um well, we've got 1.8 in

real estate and um we've got 900 in

equity. So, yeah, that's about right.

>> There we go. And so, it looks good on paper. You guys have an incredible net worth. You've done very well.

I'm not worried that this whole thing is going to implode, but I do think you're burning a lot of brain calories that don't need to be burnt. And I would just liquidate. I I wouldn't I'm not a fan of being a long-distance landlord.

>> All right, so we'll lose that with this opportunity, but there'll be other opportunities. >> There's always See, that's the thing with the real estate game. People like they're like, there's always going to be another opportunity. There's also an opportunity to just simplify and not go chase down another real estate thing and just retire when you want to instead of work because you have to cover 900.

>> Can you retire as a millionaire? have and and let's be honest, the your daughter's challenges that's been on like you've you've been under that squat rack like that's been a heavy weight for you for a long time, right? Her whole life.

You have an opportunity to live 15 minutes down the street from her, both of y'all in paid off houses. You're still a millionaire. You don't have to deal with property managers six states

over. Like there just is this idea of solving for peace. And a lot of times when we have chaos in our lives that we can't control, we spin up chaos other places so that we can play whack-a-ole with different variables and feel like we're doing something, but we often realize when we step back, we just got stuck in mud and we just hammered the gas. So it felt like we were going somewhere. You get what I'm saying? >> Pay off our Yeah, absolutely. So pay off our primary house first.

>> Yes. >> I would be And then I would sell one of those real estate those places. I would get your daughter a house. I do love that idea of debt freedom, man.

So sell a property, whatever. You could snowball it. If all the properties are in similar mortgages, you could just snowball it smallest to largest if that's I would go personally go primary first because that's the house I live in. So I want the least amount of risk there and then go about the business of selling one paying off.

>> Let me ask on on behalf of of Chuck here. Uh George, I don't personally have a problem if he does this out of order if he does over the next 90 days.

So >> you don't have any consumer debt, do you Chuck? Just the mortgages. >> Yeah. If you if you want to go >> put 75% down on your daughter's house down the street because you're only going to float that mortgage for for a month while you get this other house paid off.

I I don't personally have a problem with that. Um unless you're going to it's going to actually liquidate the whole Roth then >> because you have a way to do all of this without liquidating that Roth, too. But I don't know. It is what it is, man.

I >> you're still taking about a third of your nest egg and depleting it and putting into real estate. And so that's something to just weigh. I would personally work with a financial planner. Do you have a good financial adviser?

That's the big question. And if you don't, I would jump on ramiesolutions.com, Chuck, and click on Smartvestor Pro, and they can lay it all out for you more than we can in a in a quick show. >> All right. So So George, if this is you, how what direction would you do it?

And what order would you? >> I would sell my least favorite property today, >> put on the market today, >> pay the taxes, use the profits to pay off my own mortgage, and then see what happens from there. Do I need to sell one more to get daughter a home? Okay, let's do that.

That's more.

>> There's always going to be another opportunity. And truthfully, in every opportunity, you go, "Oh, we didn't know that it had mold issues. That's why it was priced so low." There's always something around the corner. So, I would do your due diligence, do your homework, and realize there's always going to be another one.

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Let's go out to Savannah, Georgia, and talk to Emry. What's up, Emry?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> You got it. What's up?

Well, we are we have a lot of debt and we just kind of shifted our thinking the last couple months. We've been Dave Ramsey fans our whole marriage. We got out of $30,000 of debt 10 years ago, but then started going down the slippery slope. My husband's about to be 40. I'm 37 and we have three young kids at home.

Um we have two rental properties. One's on the market right now in the Nashville area. Uh we owe 170 on each and they're

worth about 310 to 320. We're hoping to get one at a time. My question is what

to do with the profits.

>> Are you just selling one or both?

>> We are planning on selling both but one at a time because they're in the same neighborhood and they would compete with each other. >> Ooh. Fight.

>> Y'all should pick one. You get one and he gets the other and y'all should compete. What caused you guys living in Savannah to get two properties in Nashville? >> We used to live in Murphreey'sboro and my husband went to MTSU.

>> Oh, so you became landlords by default.

>> Yeah. >> Not by choice. >> We worked the system. We had the VA loan. We lived in it a year, moved.

Lived in a year and moved. So, we thought this was going to be a great source of income over the years. It's been great, but we're kind of I'm wanting to get out of it because I manage it primarily and we went into

debt turning one into a furnish rental last year and renovating it. So, we have about $24,000 on a credit card left from

that. We've paid about half of it off.

It used to be over 45, but we still have 24 left and we want to get rid of that.

Um, we have 31,000. We have 31,000 on a

car loan and we have our primary mortgage which is 292 left. And then we also have business loans. So my husband moved here and he started a land clearing business and so

we have two loans with the business.

We're in our third year. >> How much business debt?

>> We have an SBA loan of uh that's 10 10

and a half uh variable. It's at 170

right now. And then a machine loan at 90,000. >> Goodness gracious. >> Holy smokes. So you're in the go into the government for almost 200 grand and you're on a depreciating asset to the tune of 90 grand.

>> Yeah. But they make us a lot of money.

We're in our third year. Last year we he

grossed 330,000.

So he's doing really well. He's a sole proprietor. Really? >> If he's doing really well, why aren't you guys doing really well? >> Yeah.

You're in crippling credit card debt bragging about how much money this business makes >> and you owe $200,000 to the government.

>> So I'm if I'm tracking correctly, you owe 315,000 from this consumer and business debt.

>> Does that sound right?

>> The consumer business debt, the 170 and the 90 >> credit card debt, the car loan, the business debt.

>> Yeah. Plus the mortgages on the rentals.

That's why they're on they're for sale >> right now. We want to get out of it and we want to cash out. We really want to start fresh. >> Sure. No, we got you. We got you. We're just We're >> So, you're going to walk away if you sell both rentals, you'll maybe walk away with like $240,000 profit,

>> I guess. Yeah, about that. And then, you know, capital gains and all the >> Okay. >> the capital gains and stuff. >> So, let's say there's 200 grand. What would I do with 200 grand?

>> Yeah. >> I would throw it at the consumer debt and the business debt using the debt snowball because that business debt is your debt. You guys personally signed the dotted line there. So there's no like LLC that owes that. It's just you guys.

>> Yeah. So they throw it at that.

>> Yeah. >> And me personally, I'd George, tell me if I'm wrong. I would want to get the government off my back ASAP.

>> Is that wrong? Or do you want to pay off the >> Yeah. I mean, if you snowballed it, most of it most of that debt is going to be gone and then it'll leave you with the

that Is there one gigantic debt that 170,000?

>> Yeah. that covered a machine and just the startup capital and then the 90 grand is for an excavator. >> Well, you you clear the rentals, you clear a bunch of this debt. It's going to free up a whole bunch of income on top of that. And then I think you also you guys have been spending like you're in Congress, it sounds like >> Well, we don't we don't The 24 was just for renovations. We're not like spending >> I know. But if he if he made 300 grand, that money go

>> Well, he invested 10 grand in the renovations. That went really quick. He boy math. He can justify any expense cuz it's an investment. You can't argue with that. >> Okay. >> And then he um put 10 grand on the car,

>> but we did the rest on a loan.

>> And then we he put about 50 grand in investments. >> Okay. I think what's happened is you guys are stuck in a broke person mindset

of how much down, how much per month, how much down, how much per month, can I afford the payment? Can I afford the payment? Yeah, >> you're also stuck in in uh >> in person in >> social media entrepreneur uh hell.

>> This guy's one Tik Tok away from imploding your family. >> Well, but I mean it's like we're going to do rental houses so we can get passive income. I'm going to get some machines and do some excavator land movement stuff. Yeah. I'm also going to do some investments. I'm also You see what I'm saying? Like all these are all just like you can just go down Instagram to these different businesses, >> right? We're ready to move on though 40

and I think his eyes have been opened and he's he's ready.

>> Awesome. My big fear is these es excavator type jobs are are boom and

bust.

They have years where they just absolutely crush and then they've got years where the phone doesn't ring as much and you really got to get out there and hustle. >> And so while you're while it's raining for y'all, man, >> God almighty, pay off everything. I I know that's where y'all are headed, but >> here's the math. You guys will be completely debtree except for your personal mortgage within a year if you do this stuff.

>> You throw 200 grand at the 315, you're down to 115. Following >> 15 grand.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> That's the actual math. Now, you can argue, well, but that's how that would work. You guys could be completely debtree in that baby step six realm with

just that 292 mortgage left 12 months from now. >> That's you and your husband shaking hands. No more of these quote unquote investments.

>> We're going to pause on putting any money away. Oh, you got one. What is it?

>> Is he over there whispering to you?

Sweet nothing. >> The Oh, yeah. No, he's here listening in. He's on board. But um I have to be honest that the invest we have eight in a Roth but the 50 was in crypto >> of course >> and I'm really trying to get him to just

release that because if you see the number 50 in crypto about 50 in credit card and car debt like I just want to wipe it clean. >> Yes. >> And my deal was if we paid off everything and we started at 15% that he could have a small percentage to do crypto if we could really get in a stronger position. That was kind of my deal I told him.

I will be impressed if he offloads the crypto because what's going to happen is one year from now they're going to go those Ramsay guys told me to sell my crypto and I could have doubled it babe to a hundred we could have we could have been bajillion that's what's going to happen and uh >> and there's grandparents out there with garages full of beanie babies who had the exact same thing like yeah dude no listen beanie babies are going to crush all right cool >> yeah it's a gamble yeah >> so and it's fine if you want to use some fun money for crypto do that but not when you're encrying debt in every corner.

And so I would just get out of this. Let's start from scratch. Let's pay off the house. Let's have an actual nest egg in retirement accounts.

>> Let's 10x the 10x to a,000x.

>> I don't know. I >> I get it. I'm on it.

>> That's it. So, you know what this means?

No more social media. Hey, look over to your husband and I want to hear him. Are you in? Totally.

>> Oh, yeah. I'm I'm 110% and that's why we're calling.

>> I love it. Okay. Okay. If you're all in

110%, that means you're more than 100, which means you definitely do crypto math. That means I want you all the crypto's gone by the end of the week and you're debt free, which is dope. And in your consumer stuff, and then you just sell your houses, your business free, and then you're off to the races.

>> I like this plan. I'm >> Yeah, that sounds like a good plan to me. I mean, I'm I'm ready to hit sell, >> dude. That's so awesome. I'm proud of you, man. Hey, can I also say this? It's hard to be in that place, isn't it?

Because you have been working really hard, haven't you? >> It is. And I gave up my career as a pilot to, you know, be home with my

family and started this business. And, you know, it it's been it's been a good tradeoff, but I do want to be completely

free of owing anybody anything.

>> My man. My man. My man. hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with uh the premium version of Every Dollar for a year to get you guys put a little gas in your jet engine here um to get you'all off to the races here. Proud of you. Sell it all. Be free of all of it

and then you're going to be building wealth like you can't imagine.

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Today's scripture of the day is Proverbs 14:30. A heart at peace gives life to

the body, but envy rots the bones.

Freddy Mercury said, "Someone will always be prettier. Someone will always be smarter. Someone will always be younger. They will never be you."

I needed to hear that, John.

>> Of course you did. Thank you. You needed to hear both of these.

>> I really did. That was actually a really good proverb. I don't know if I've heard that one before. >> That envy rock.

>> Yeah. Envy. That's very rock and roll.

That's very rock. >> Yeah. Whoever picked this out for me on the show today, well done. >> Way to go. >> That was a good job. Let's go out to San Antonio, Texas, and talk to the Tobes.

What's up, Toby? >> Hey, how you guys doing? Uh, great to get to talk to you guys today. It's great to talk to you, too, brother. What's up, man? >> I have a very difficult dilemma I need some assistance on. So, my mother-in-law has early stage dementia.

>> Ah, man. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, they're in their 80s. Um, uh, her

husband is, uh, wheelchair bound and, um, give you kind of the financials of it. Basically, memory care is about $6,000 a month starting. Uh, she's in

the lowest level of care, but each level it goes up, it's another $1,500.

They get uh social security of about 4K a month. Uh they have an apartment that the lease is through until November.

It's 2K and um they only have $100,000 left.

>> Oh my.

>> He's not a nice individual and it's become a huge family conflict

all around the money. Uh we did talk a few weeks ago and I agreed basically that hey when they ran out of money I would help them. A week later after that, he's going to my wife asking for money and then now it's telling her to give him money and he's kind of resorted

to emotional blackmail and it's just been very difficult. Um

my wife's about as unhappy I've ever seen her and we're just kind of struggling for what's the right thing to do because honestly I'm close to retirement and we have big plans for retirement. >> Yeah. And I frankly I don't really want to spend all my money. I'm just a little short of my goal saving my whole life. I

don't want to have to turn around and give all that money to take care of my

mother-in-law. And I know people probably not not like that, but it's kind of where we're at. Um >> so struggling trying to figure out what to do. >> So can I just tell you right out of the gate, you got permission to struggle and be upset. Okay. >> Yeah. Um, when you retold that story,

this may not be all of it. Um,

but I I hear in your voice you're more mad that somebody, and I don't care if it's her dad or not, somebody is

um grossly coming after your wife.

>> That's true. I'm pretty fed up with it.

I he and I kind of got into it about a week ago and he called me later and apologized which is completely unlike him but it still didn't change anything.

>> Okay. Does your wife have any siblings?

>> She has a sister. Uh she's also just retired. My wife's just retired. Uh but she doesn't make any she doesn't have any money. She had a government job and has a very small pension. She lives basically paycheck to paycheck.

>> Okay. So, I guess what I want to back all the way out and George can walk you through the specifics here, >> and I say this with all due respect, assisted living is a privilege.

>> And assisted living costs money and if you don't have money, you can't be in assisted living. You can go into a Medicaid facility if that's all that we have. >> Well, that's what we talked about is, hey, let the money run out. Actually, there's some pretty good programs with with Medicaid, but uh he he is uh I

think partly just freaking out at the thought of not having a dime to his name. >> That's true. And that's that's there's a mathematical reality to that. And so

what what you here here's the order of importance here. Her order of steps. You and your wife turn the phones off and y'all go plan a half day retreat.

>> Okay? and y'all decide what kind of life do we want to have over the next 5 to 10 years and how much is that going to cost? And both of y'all put your your pain on the table, your hurts on the table. Let your wife put her guilt.

I feel like I have to do this stuff. My guess is she's probably been bailing her dad out emotionally her whole stinking life. Um, and we're going to put all that stuff on the table. You be able to say, "I've worked this hard for you and me to have this life." and this bitter, angry, entitled old man is gonna and when actually there's a program out there for him, right?

So, put all that on the table. All of it, >> okay?

We are not going to just wipe ourselves

out when there's a program on the table to make this angry 80-year-old um not feel whatever he's feeling.

>> Okay? or if y'all decide we're going to put this much money towards that, then y'all can make that choice. But I want y'all to do whatever comes next together. And usually what happens is you get frustrated, frustrated, frustrated. Dad calls out of nowhere, bombs her, she cries, you explode, and then y'all get y'all go to neutral for a while and then it builds and builds and build. Let's just go to a place and get it all out on the table. Okay.

>> You are sp you're spot on in terms of the emotional roller coaster. >> That's right. And so let's take the explosion. Let's just let's let's empty all the gas tanks out of all the all the combustible, you know, liquids. No more gas. No more jet fuel in there and let's just sit at a table and share a meal and say, "Okay, we're both frustrated.

Neither of us wanted this and here it is. What are we going to decide to do next?" And then if y'all decide, "Hey, Dad, we're not funding this. Here's a great Medicaid program. We're going to let this money run out and then you're going to move into this place. It's a great place for y'all." Even if it's not a great, it's the place for y'all. then just expect he's gonna yell and kick and scream and throw fits and he doesn't get a vote. He's being well taken care of in

the situation that he can afford.

>> Okay. >> Right. Or if you decide we don't want to fill in the blank, y'all can go from there. >> Yeah. >> How have they afforded their life thus far?

>> Um they've been very frugal actually. Um

you know, they live in a a a person 55

and over apartment complex. it's it's reasonably priced and been very careful with his money. He's, you know, has social security and and kind of been working through his retirement savings.

It's just that he's in his 80s now and it's it's about out. So, um, that's, you

know, they they've never done anything too extreme in terms of cars or trips or anything like that. They've been >> Okay, that's good. So, they don't have big expectations of what their life is going to be like at this point. They've they've looked at the reality of it. I would also look at uh options B, C, D, and E because right now the option is either we pay $6,000 a month for assisted living or they hate us and they're homeless. And the truth is there are way more options than that.

>> So let's look, hey, what would inhome care for a few hours a day be like? What does the Medicaid option look like?

Let's lay out all the options and then go with the one that makes the most sense and then we can revisit it 6 months from now, a year from now. And I think that will just free you of this forever thing and then throwing off your goal, which I also think there's something to that. You mentioned, hey, I'm trying to retire. I've worked my whole life for this. And then a wrench got thrown into the plan. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> What is that goal? Was there a certain number? >> Yeah, I'm really close to hitting my my number and um >> like are you guys worth $5 million?

>> No, we're we're gonna be my goal is 2.5.

>> Amazing. And you're going to hit that?

>> Yes. Okay. And the truth is, if you were at 2.2, you'd still figure out how to make all that work and have a great retirement because you're that kind of guy. >> Yes. >> So, it hurts because it messes up your spreadsheet, right? I feel that as the nerd.

>> Don't put a ding in my spreadsheet. But you also don't have to feel like obligated to cover their lifestyle for the rest of their life no matter what because you want to make everyone happy. And so I want to there's some middle ground here that you guys can afford to help a little bit, but you don't want to open the floodgates and just say, "All right, I guess we're going to pay six grand a month for who knows how long. 5 years, 10 years." >> Yeah.

Average dementia patients live seven years. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. So this could be you can do the math if you want.

>> Math. >> Hey, that oddly looks like 80 grand a year for what could be seven years.

That's hundreds of thousands of dollars, which means we can't retire if we do this. >> And also, you know that afford quote unquote afford means different things to you and her.

>> She sacrificed her childhood for this guy. She sacrificed some of the things she want to do for this guy. She's willing to say, "Well, I'll just I'll just do this now." Right. Um, and I George, I have a it's not a hard and fast rule, but if people that I know or care about or whatever need something, I'll be generous for a thing, not just an endless stream of money. Exactly.

Right. So, I can help you out with this. I'll help you out with this. >> When you call and say, "I just need 10,000." I'm not going to do that. So, if grandad needs something, maybe we can help out with the thing, but not just on money, not a recurring ongoing fund my life. That's different.

[Applause] [Music]

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## 159. Stop Starting Over and Break the Cycle for Good | May 26, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to [music] help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show, [music] and I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with good friend and my other co-host is Smart Money Happy Hour, George Kamel.

Excited to be with you. >> Always fun, George. >> New hairdo, by the way, if you're watching on YouTube, I want to call it out. The extensions are gone if you've been following the journey of Rachel Cruze. >> the hair. I change my hair every 6 months, so yeah, this is this is the new and improved. We'll see. I look the same as I did 4 years ago.

>> [laughter] >> George hasn't changed at >> of consistency.

You're always predictable, George Kamel.

So yeah, give us a call at 888-825-5225

cuz our advice is as predictable as George Kamel's looks. So There we go.

Full circle. All right, let's go to Hannah in New York City. Hi Hannah, welcome to the show.

Hi Rachel and George, thanks for having me. Absolutely, how can we help?

Okay, so my question is, how can I keep my husband dedicated to paying off this debt with me when we are back at baby step one for the fourth time now, and he

is overwhelmed and wants to separate finances? Oh, wow.

>> Man. What's caused you guys to be on it the fourth time? What's happened? Yeah, we've had a lot of bad luck. I'm just going to rapid fire a timeline for you here. We got engaged in 2019, That's when we started this journey. Uh started paying off We had no major major debt.

It was some credit card debt, student loans, nothing major. Uh at that same time, we found out that his mom stole his identity. And it was mainly student loans in his name that he did not know existed that he was getting the ref- refund checks back to her. Um so, that kind of muffled things up,

but we were working towards it. 2020 came, COVID, we got married that year, but we canceled our wedding. Um we

kept working at it. 2021, I got pregnant with our daughter. And we lost our jobs

for because of COVID. It was really hard here. Um we had to move because our landlord died. And then from there, we kind of

wiped out our savings for the first time, and we had to uh start over at baby step one. So, week

that month. >> so it's been start over four times over the last 8 years. So, it feels like every other year you're going backwards.

Okay. And is that the main reason of his him wanting to separate finances because maybe decisions you guys made in the midst of some of this he doesn't agree with?

So, so it's more so that he has really bad ADHD. He wants to be able to focus on He works in sales, and he wants to be able to focus on his work and not have to worry about like the bank account being too low or anything like that because it's basically we were hit with something every year, and it just kind of resets us. And I'm throwing all the extra money at paying off this debt.

And now, he's trying to

focus [snorts] fully, and he's saying that if we share a bank account, that it's too confusing for him because he gets overwhelmed by cuz he doesn't know what's going in, what's coming out. And we've tried every app, every spreadsheet, everything, and it just seems like nothing's working.

I've even tried >> thinks the solution is just to work on two different pages is his solution.

>> Yeah. He thinks that's going to make this go better for everybody.

For you to do this on your own. He can't concentrate on one account.

>> fact that he says he has ADHD so he wants to focus. I'm like, well, those things are just already not working together. Okay, so Hannah, how much debt do you guys have?

Uh so, currently we have we fell back

into credit card debt uh about 2 years ago. We have 15,000 just about on that. And then we just have my student loan debt left, which is 23,000.

Okay, how much do you guys make a year?

Uh our take home is 7,500.

Uh and then on top of that, he will get

commission and bonuses. Where do those go? Uh he just uh right now he just started a new job because he was laid off 2 months ago and

then went right into a new job. So, he

uh worked it out that he will get a bonus at 6 months and a bonus at 12 months. That's going to be $10,000.

And then he's also looking at getting a settlement from his last job because he was laid off while he was on paid family leave because our son was born.

Um and he's negotiating that, but that's looking to be about 10,000, too. Okay.

Uh I want to put throw that at the debt and he wants to have that as kind of like an extra nest egg because he wants more security. >> disappear just like it has every single other time. So, here's the here's the napkin math, Hannah, just to give you some clarity. If you knock this out in 12 months, that's a little over three grand a month, which means you guys live off of 4,500 plus the extra, the bonuses, all of that. Can you guys do that?

Uh it's a little tight cuz we live in York. Our rent is a little bit over 3,000.

That includes all our utilities everything in it. >> Are you working at all? Yeah, I work from home and stay home with our kids. >> Okay, how much do you bring in a month? How much do you bring home? About a thousand a paycheck. About that's after

my insurance and everything. I get two paychecks a month.

Two paychecks a month. >> And that's on top of the 7,500 or is that combined? No, that's included in it. So his base is 70,000 and then I get the 2,000 and then he'll get commission and bonuses.

>> Got it. Okay, so 7,500 plus is what we're working with. You Have you guys tried EveryDollar, our budgeting app yet? >> [clears throat] >> We did a while ago.

Okay, I think we need to restart this process with a whole different mindset that we are doing this together. We are going to cut up the credit cards, we're going to freeze our credit because so far you've given yourself every opportunity to take a shortcut to go backwards.

Yeah. I mean it kind of I mean >> of where I'm at where I just kind of want to throw everything at this and get it over with because I feel like we're paying about a thousand Well, I know that we're paying over a thousand dollars a month at credit cards every single month and I just want to get it over with like Okay, so that so the fact that you guys

cuz it's I mean if you're saying what you're saying is true and if you're as you know, hard bent on like hey, we're not we're not going into debt anymore.

Even if an emergency comes up, the thing about taking debt off the table is it forces you to be creative in your options. And so it forces you then to say what else has to be true for us to move forward in this emergency. So if that is where you're at and that's not where he is and what he's wanting to do with money is so different to the point of wanting separate finances then at that point you guys just are not aligned, Hannah.

>> It's not the budget's fault.

I agree. I agree. I I I I feel like the

tantrum is Have you seen anybody? Have you guys brought in a third party at all?

Uh we This is difficult, too. Uh we were

seeing kind of like an ADHD therapist

for his ADHD because a lot of it stems from that. >> Does he have some Does he have medication at all?

Yeah, he's on medication for it. It's a very severe case and >> Okay. Yeah, I don't know what else to do about it. Like it's just very hard for me to cope.

>> do what you can control is the safeguards you can put in place so that you can't make any more mistakes, that you can't go backwards. And that's why I'm telling you if you cut up the cards, you don't own a credit card, you can't go into credit card debt. If you freeze your credit, you can't go into more debt. So if you really stop that, it'll help.

it's affecting you is what it's sounding like more than just the money. It sounds like [music] it's kind of coming So you guys may need some more guardrails and

processes of which you make decisions within your marriage [music] and new communication styles almost um in general and then that will actually bleed over to the money [music] thing. So I'm glad you guys are seeing someone at some level, but still engage your marriage cuz when that heals, the money stuff will follow.

>> [music]

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>> Up next, we have Savannah in Sacramento, California. Hi, Savannah. Welcome to the show. Hi there.

Hello, hello. How can we help?

So, um I'm a mom of two little girls and I work two full-time jobs um and I go to school full-time and I'm in about $37,000 of debt and that includes my car and everything. >> Mhm. And I'm stuck in like this loop of like cash advances and everything. And so, when I get paid, I feel like I have nothing and it goes by so quickly and I

just don't know how to get out of this. Like, I want to get my debt, you know, back to zero and not have to worry about any of this anymore. Yeah, absolutely.

Are you Are you single, Savannah?

Yes. Okay, and you have your two girls.

How old are they?

I have a 7-year-old and a 2-year-old.

Oh, wow. Okay. And you said you're working two jobs. Is there one that's full-time and then one is part-time or are they both part-time?

No, they're both full-time. I work both of them at the same exact time. One's remote and one's in office and I just do both at the same time.

Wow, and you're in school full-time?

Yes, and I'm in school full-time.

>> How many hours in a day do you have?

Do you have more than us? How are you doing this? >> I I know it's crazy. It really is crazy.

Um I just one of my jobs is a little more laid-back and so I'm able to

do my other you know cuz I do customer support on one side and I do property management on the other and I've just been really blessed with my property management one. So >> So what's your income? >> able to make it work.

I bring home about 6,500 a month to

maybe 7,000. It just depends cuz sometimes I get you know like lease bonuses for the property management one.

So give or take it's about 6,500 7,000 a month. And what's causing you to go in the hole every month and turn to these cash advance apps?

I think it was just a cycle cuz I just got this second job maybe 2 months ago.

So I think it was a cycle with my other job that whenever I'd get paid like it just wasn't enough. Like I have my you know my rent, my bills, daycare, like I

drive a lot so gas is expensive

and I've just got stuck in these and then also my credit cards, you know, I have these minimum payments so I have to you know keep up with. So I just feel like I I I don't have enough ever and so now I just I need to get out of this like cash advance whatever you know. >> Have you felt different the last 2 months considering you just added a full part-time job or I mean sorry a full-time job? Have you felt any any relief in it at all or where that money's going?

You know, it's funny you say that because everyone asked me that and no, I I don't even feel that there that I've even made any more money. >> How much extra are you making per month now with this job versus in January?

Um I would say it's about an extra 2,500

a month. Okay.

Are you on a super strict budget?

No. Okay. That might be our problem, Savannah, honestly, because >> I think so. Um because what you described, you should feel a immense amount of relief with 20 2,500

dollars extra. And the fact that it's just slipping >> disappeared. Yep, it's going somewhere.

And I And I'm not saying you're being irresponsible or anything like that, but I think there is something about having a plan for this money, cuz if there is no plan, then it is going to just disappear. And so >> Someone else will have a plan for it, like the cash advance apps or DoorDash or whoever. They They want your money, and so you need to want it more than they do. Yep, so what we teach Savannah is a zero-based budget.

So every single month before the month begins, you're going to look at the month ahead and say, you know, in this case it will be June. Which that We're at toward the end of May. This is actually going to be a great experiment. And just as a little side note, we will get you EveryDollar Premium for a year.

Well, that's our gift to you because with EveryDollar Premium, you're able to attach your bank account to it, and you're going to cut up the credit cards. There's no more swiping. They're They're going to be gone, okay? You're going to just use your bank debit card, and you're going to create a zero-based budget with an EveryDollar.

And EveryDollar, that's the way the app is designed.

people have like different philosophies around budgeting, but we have found a zero-based budget is one of the most effective because what you do is you take your income, and then under that, you're going to list out everything you spend money on. And again, in EveryDollar, there's going to be some pre-categories that everyone has, right?

[clears throat] Rent or your mortgage or lights, electricity, cable, all of whatever. So you can add, subtract some of these categories, but the goal is for that $7,000 every month has a plan and

you know exactly where it's going including debt, including extra on the debt because you're looking at your food category and you're like, "I'm only spending I'm making this up $500 bucks a month on food. Like that's it for me and the two girls like that's all we're spending and we're going to get creative and it's going to be beans and rice, rice and beans, peanut butter and jelly, ramen noodles. Like we we want nutrition but that may come a year later when we have our money under control." You know what I'm saying? Like genuinely >> get it.

>> it is like stripping down to everything and you're going to be cutting your lifestyle cuz when you do the budget you're going to it's going to be very revealing of this is this is where all my money's going and there's going to be categories Savannah you're going to get pissed and you're going to like get this out. No, we're cutting that subscription. We're not doing this because it starts to actually visually show you like here's some freed up money and here it is that's going to be tackling the debt. So that's where that margin's going to go and so that that would be my number one for sure and then George obviously starting to pay off some of these still with the debt snowball even though the payday options are in there which are terrible and terrible interest rates and all of that but talk to us about your debt Savannah.

So most I mean most of it's credit cards. I owe 7,000 on my car but that one I make sure I pay that every single month or you know.

But what made me honestly reach out is my one of my credit cards I got a letter from an attorney that they were going to try to you know sue me for the money.

And I'm like what you know what do I do?

So all these credit cards they're all maxed out to about 5,000 and then I have one that I share with actually my dad and that one's maxed out to 10,000 and it's not his fault it's my fault. >> Mhm. So I just it's a lot you know, I need to get these credit cards under control.

>> sure, yeah. And so, cutting them up and them not even being an option is going to be your first bet. But then you can also, if they have gone into collections, there are some great options with actually calling them and

negotiating your debt. And there's actually some resources, George, that >> we're going to hook you up, Savannah. Hang on the line, we'll hook you up with Guardian Litigation. They're a partner of ours, they're a nationwide law firm, and they help people exactly in your shoes to make sure that you're not getting bullied and harassed, and they can actually help you settle these debts for what you can pay.

And so, we'll hook you up with that, you can go to guardianlit.com/ramsey, but we'll make sure that when you're off the line, our team connects you to those good people. And that's part of the the solution. And then the rest is how do we debt snowball these things? You know, delete the cash advance apps and go, like Rachel said, we're going to get creative.

And so, that's going to be your hard line with the budget. That's going to be your hard line with spending less and making more. Clearly, you're doing a good job making more, but you're finding out there's a ceiling to that. We have to learn how to spend less too in order to create that margin.

Right. Yeah. Yeah, and don't let the credit card companies scare you, Savannah. I mean, if anything, if they are in collection, honestly, it's more an advantage for you because what happens is they end up selling the debt

to to another company, and then they call you, the collections company, and then they end up selling it, you know, next week to another company. I mean, it's just a disaster, that whole industry. And they're going to try to freak you out, that they're going to sue you, they're going to garnish your wage, you know, they'll just talk it up. And honestly, if it is in collections, that gives you the power to negotiate.

Now, if you have the money, people listening out there, that's not in Savannah's case.

But when you're in a case like you, Savannah, where you're like, I don't have the money to pay, then when they go

into collections, then again, it's a little bit to your advantage cuz you may be actually be able to negotiate. Um and depending on how deep it is, I mean, sometimes pennies on the dollar. So, you So, but um yeah, but that company that law firm will be able to help you. Um yeah, they're amazing.

And then I just want to encourage you, Savannah, you're a single mom. And any single parent out there just in general, whether, you know, you have your finances in order or you're stressed about them, that in and of itself is exhausting. Like, [music] that is so hard, so hard.

doing an incredible job setting up a life for your girls. I mean, [music] you're going to be doing the grunt work for the next probably 2 years to get yourself out of this. But Savannah, when we talk about changing your family tree on this show, that's what [music] it's about. That's your why. It's fighting for these girls so that you guys have peace and control over your money.

>> [music] >> And you're you're a hero to say I'm going to strap on that cape and I'm going to take this journey. So, we're here for you. Stay on the line though. We're going to hook you up with everything we've talked about. >> [music] >> And call us back, Savannah, if you need anything.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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We always get tons of [music] questions when it comes to investing, and so if you have a lot of questions or you just want some help, make sure to get a SmartVestor Pro in your corner.

SmartVestor Pros are registered investment professionals who lead with the heart of a teacher. And we have been con- and they've been connected uh to our listeners for years. I mean, this is something that Ramsey is so big on is getting someone in your corner that you can trust. So, SmartVestor Pros can create a plan to help you reach your goals and help you make informed investing decisions. So, we will show uh

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to find an investing pro near you, or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, make sure to click the link in the description. All right, let's head to Jordan in San Diego. Hi, Jordan. Welcome to the show.

Well, how are you guys doing today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

I'm doing great. Um so, my name is Jordan. I'm from San Diego, California.

Um I'm 24 years old and um my current income is about $120,000 a year.

Uh the reason I'm calling you guys today is um it feels like my entire life people have always told me go to college, get a good job, make a lot of money, and everything else will follow. Um, I think I've done a pretty good job at getting to that point now, but it seems like the more time goes on and the more money I make, the life I always imagined myself having having keeps going further and further out of reach. The reason I say that is, as I said, I live in Southern California, in San Diego.

I look for houses in San Diego, too far out of my reach.

wider circle and I go further, and no matter how far I go, it still feels like houses, a mortgage is going to cost me around $3,500 a month, with which with

my income doesn't sound so bad, but I think I've finished most of the steps I want to in life, and the next thing I want to do is start a family and have kids and focus on that, and it just feels so out of reach for me to keep contributing to my savings accounts, to pay off a mortgage, to be able to support my wife while she stays home, and to take care of kids and make sure that they have some sort of support going to school, and I don't really know if I'm doing something wrong or if there's something I could do differently.

Here's what you've done wrong, Jordan.

You've assumed that you have 5 years left to live and that you must accomplish all of this in the next 5 years or else. So, all you need is patience. >> [laughter] >> You're doing so well at 24, far better than I was. And yes, you have a high cost of living area, but there's no rule book that says if you don't own a house in San Diego by 25, you screwed it up, man.

Those people meant well for you, but they don't live your life. And so, I would just be very patient. Go, you're crushing it. Let's learn to live on less than we make, put money in savings, and then do this for the next 6 years, and then call us and see where you're at.

Okay, I appreciate that. Something I did want to ask. I'm currently putting money into my work TSP.

I work for the government so we have their savings plan. I put money into my personal investment account that I'm saving. Right, and I feel like obviously I'm extremely grateful for the job that I have and I know a lot of people are in a much worse situation than me.

But I feel there's a lot of things I don't do cuz I'm just so addicted to saving my money. I'm so afraid of bad debt that I think there's a lot of things I don't >> I have a $7,000 remaining on my car note. Okay.

And other than that Are you working on paying that off?

Yeah, I just paid it off. It's I think it's 290 a month and it's it's a easier for me to just pay it off. >> you have in savings?

I currently have in my individual investment account I have around $20,000 in savings. Liquid cash in my savings account I have 5,000.

And then I have personal Roth IRA with 25 and then like I said my TSP has

another 25 in it. Great. Well, you're doing great on the investment side. I would just have some focus with your financial goals and right now my singular focus would be getting out of debt.

The next focus is to have a liquid emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. And as a young single guy, this is also the best time because you have no other responsibilities, no one else to answer to. It's just you and your own goals.

Your income's going to grow over that time and so you all you're seeing right now is this little tiny snapshot of your life right now and then you see these very big goals far away and I think you're closer than you realize.

>> I don't think you're comparing your life to reality either, Jordan. So you either have expectations that you should be, you know, where you should be at 34 and you're 24 or you're, you know, seeing people on social media or your friends are talking, you know, whatever it is and the what's what's being painted in front of you is probably not the whole picture either. And so if you are in your early 20s making six figures, no debt, so I'm going to count that for you cuz I want you to pay off your car tonight with some of the savings.

And then and you have cash, you know, saved, you have investments, like everything that you're doing, you are doing it well. And the hard thing about building wealth the right way is that it takes time and patience. It's not going to be as flashy as the people you see on TikTok that are like, "I bought 18 VRBOs

and or Verbo, whatever they call them, or you know, Airbnbs and like, you know what I mean? Like you're going to see and I make 1 million a month. They're like, "What are all the crazy stuff you see?" Majority of the time, number one, it's not even true, or number two, they've built their entire financial life on a house of cards. So, slow and

steady wins the race, and it's not going to be flashy, it's not going to be exciting, but it is going to be solid and it's going to be all yours cuz you're not going to be borrowing money to do any to do any wealth building.

It's going to be you actually making decisions about your life. And so, that's what I would encourage you. That I think you're what you're wanting is not bad or wrong, but I think feeling like a failure cuz you don't have it right now, to George's point, at 24, we just want to like be like, "Jordan, you're good. You are You're doing great.

You're doing great." >> I think the one of the reasons I'm so overwhelmed now is because I have have to say, I've already met the love of my life. We're talking about marriage.

>> Oh, great. >> about kids. Yes.

Sure. >> have a ring. I don't have a wedding. I don't have a honeymoon, which is obviously I'm not planning on spending an extravagant amount on it, right? I can't imagine bringing kids into the world um until I feel ready, which the feeling of being ready is different. [laughter] >> Yeah, like I I everyone tells me that.

Not emotionally, not financially. The best thing you can do is be debt-free with an emergency fund and be aligned with your spouse on your goals financially, spiritually, all of that.

That's the best thing you can do to be ready. Other than that, don't wait until you have a certain amount in your investment account to have a kid. No.

And go ahead and get married, Jordan. If you guys know, do it. What's holding you back right now? Is it finances?

I I'm I'm so afraid of not having money.

How did you grow up, Jordan?

I grew up So, my dad is the hardest working guy I know. He's never He doesn't have a retirement. He doesn't have anything. >> That's your fear.

That's your fear. >> You know, and I'm just Yeah, I'm so worried. >> Yeah. Like I want I love my dad, but I want the opposite of that life.

I want the idea where I know the bills are going to get paid. That's why I love my job. Everyone talks about oh, owning a business. I love having a union.

I love having a stable paycheck. I love having investments sent to my account automatically. There's no other way I'd rather do it. >> Yep.

It was just the idea of me like you were telling me to pay off the $7,000, right? Which I know was a great idea.

$1,000 in cash and it goes into my car.

I know it's a good idea, but it feels wrong cuz in my head, if I don't save, I

feel like I'm failing.

Right, because at that point, from where

your psychology is, is that saving is

the only the only thing you should do with money. And out of good reason because you're looking at your parents like holy crap, they have nothing They're not going to They They work so hard, but now they have nothing to show for it at retirement. But here's the deal, Jordan. There's two other parts of money that you have to engage in to have

a holistic, healthy financial picture.

Giving and spending. Okay? So, you may go

through seasons where you're going to be saving more. Maybe you and your soon-to-be fiance, soon-to-be wife, you're saving up for that down payment on a home and you guys are really like, "Hey, we're going to pull back on lifestyle to really get that down payment." That's great. But over the course of your life, Jordan, if you have this mentality the rest of your life, that's where money can become an idol.

You will hold on to it so tightly and have this sense of security that this is going to be your answer. And then you're going to look up and realize, "Oh my gosh, I have I have wasted my whole life cuz fear has driven my financial decisions, not a healthy balance of all of this." So, >> [music] >> I want I think the budget is your answer. Budget for the fun stuff, budget for some giving, and budget for the saving. >> Yes.

And realize, "I'm young. I got a lot of time on my hands. You're doing so good." >> Jordan, go on ramseysolutions.com and pull up the [music] investment calculator and put in what you have right now with investments at 24. And if you And just do the math, if you never put another dime in, what you'll have at retirement cuz 40 years from now with compound interest.

>> You're going to be doing great even where you are now. You're doing great, Jordan.

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Well, George, when it comes to investing, [music] well, we were talking about um just the previous segment of how powerful time is. And even if you just do the boring stuff, time is on your side. So, the earlier you can start, the better off you're going to be.

Yeah, and the the first milestones are really hard. And then it's like a hockey stick with compound growth. So, getting to that first 100,000 invested is such a

marathon. And then from a million to 2 million, you sort of blink and you're there if you do it the right way. So, I want to take Jordan's numbers, who was on the call with us. He made 120 grand a year, and he felt like it just wasn't enough. He was behind. He can't accomplish his goals. So, he was like hoarding money to invest and couldn't enjoy any of it. And I just wanted to show the audience at home, even if he

never invested another dime, where his investments would be. >> Okay. To help with the scarcity mindset that he was experiencing. So, he's currently 24. We're going to pull up the screen here if you're watching on YouTube or Spotify or the Ramsey Network app. So, 24 years old, let's go to 64.

So, it's a 40-year career, and he currently has, he said, 25K in a Roth, 25K in the TSP. So, we'll call that 50K, and he's never going to add another dime. So, how much will you contribute monthly? Zero. And I'm using the Ramsey Investment Calculator. We'll put a link in the show notes to plug your own numbers in. Annual return, I'm going to go with 10%. Now, in the last since 1950, the S&P 500, which is the top 500 companies in America, have returned about 11.8%.

So, 10% is very realistic.

>> Let's do both. We'll go conservative 10.

>> Rachel will be the optimist, glass half full gal. Always more. All right.

>> [laughter] >> I'm going to hit calculate. $2.68 million. >> Oh. Jordan at >> if he never adds a dime, which is not bad. >> 2.7. See, you're rounding it up again.

Now, at 12%, you're looking at 5.9 million. 5. That's a two That's pretty wild. >> $6 million, Jordan.

>> over 40 years really adds to it.

>> he hears this. >> go back and let's say >> never do another thing. Isn't that wild?

Never do another thing. >> growth. And look, the contributions, he didn't contribute anything but the 50, and it turned into that just by >> So, if you could imagine continuing to invest 15% of your income.

>> of his 120 grand, that's 1,500 a month.

>> Okay. From 24 to 64. [clears throat] Let's see what happens if he continues this. >> $12 million at 10% rate of return, Jordan. There you go, Jordan. >> So, if and that's if you never get a raise and your spouse never works.

That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good point. >> So, let us free you.

Yeah. >> Enjoy some of the money cuz you're going to get to 12 million and go, "Should have went on a vacation probably. That probably would have been a good idea. I got a lot of money now and don't have enough time to spend it." >> that we actually like enjoy and want to pick out.

You know what I mean? Like there's it's okay. Well, that's what happens. We, you know, we talk about this book, Die with Zero, which we don't agree with everything in the book, but the concept is do not wait until you're 70 or 80 or or at the point where you pass away to then hand your kids a million bucks when they don't need it in their 60s.

>> That's right. That's right. >> Use it, enjoy it while you're alive. And even giving them some, too, right?

But while you're alive, actually be Give people [clears throat] like Jordan a leg up to be able to buy a house in San Diego at 24, if you're that boomer.

there you go. Some encouragement that you don't have to retire broke and the younger you are, the more every dollar counts because it has more time for compound growth. >> that all the time. People are like, "Why did I not start this earlier? Why did I not get out of debt and start" You know what I mean? Start the whole baby step process >> I start when I was 4 years old? I would have had an extra 20 years. No, George.

But that's the idea. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The next best time is today. So >> Start Start where you are. >> We all wish we could have started earlier. >> That's right. All right, let's go to Oklahoma City and we have Lindsey on the line. Hi Lindsey, welcome to the show.

Hi. How are you guys? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Yeah, I have a question. Um I have a uh

credit collection services bill um in the amount of $1,000 and uh $1,035

Mhm. And I'm about $70,000 in debt. Um

and or $77,000 in debt. And I was just

curious. I I tried calling them earlier to see if they could make a settlement for $400 and they denied it. And I was

just taking Dave's advice to do that.

And um so I was just curious what you guys would do. How old is the debt?

Oh, uh as of April 17th.

Oh, so it's like a month.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, a fresh debt like that, they're not going to be as willing to settle as one that would has been sitting for three or four years cuz they kind of see the writing on the wall.

They'll be lucky to get anything out of this debt. And so not that I would wait on purpose to pay this off, but the reason they're not going to take, you know, 400 on a $1,000 debt is because it's only a month old. >> Yeah. Yeah, if it was a year or two, that's when you can really really negotiate. Um do you What do What do you have, Lindsey? Do you have extra margin every month that you're trying to pay off debt?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've got I've got a lot. I'm just trying to figure out where you put your money.

Yes. Okay, so will you tell let us know So, you have that $1,000 bill, and then what's the other $77,000?

What kind of debt? >> Well, 70,000 of it is my car.

70,000 is just in your car?

>> That's one car?

Yeah. How much do you make a year?

200 Well, 225 base. [clears throat]

Okay. And then plus commission. Okay. So, last year I made 270. Okay. Okay. Well, that's not completely out of proportion just for an income standpoint. I was nervous you were going to say you make 75. We get that call sometimes. We're like, But all of your problems are solved if you just sold the car, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, how are you How do you have a credit in collections making

270 a year?

Well, because I'm not very good at I'm

very good at my job, and I'm not very good at taking care of everything else.

Okay. From like a detail standpoint in getting everything paid. >> Yeah, I have a problem with details.

>> Okay, so you do have a $1,000 to pay this debt, though.

I do. Okay. Okay. Well, so then I wouldn't I wouldn't negotiate. I'd just I'd just pay it. >> calories to try to negotiate Yeah. Fight at this point. >> Be done. And then what's the other 7,000?

Uh credit card debt and like uh

some credit card debt and then a little bit of like uh I put something on a furniture plan, but Okay.

>> I'm just trying to figure out how to spend my money, and um I was just curious what you guys thought because Dave always talked about, you know, you guys can call a credit collections company and, you know, offer 30%, and I offered more than that, and they didn't settle.

Um Yeah, but they also Yeah. And if they have any insight into your income as well, they're not going to be settling with you, either. So, they I >> Yeah, know if they did or not, so that would make more sense. >> So, well, so I would say, Lindsay, I would I would start to put some parameters in place,

some identity statements, if you will, about who you are with money, okay? So, you, if I were to like wave a wand, I would want you to say, "I'm a person that doesn't borrow money. I don't need to borrow money because I'm a really hard worker. I'm very smart, and I can make a lot of money, and I am. That's that's part of who I am. That's part of you, Lindsay. Also, details are not my strength, but I

am a person who works at my weaknesses, especially when my weaknesses are costing me all this money. Like, the amount of interest you're paying, Lindsay, on credit cards, when you make $270,000 a year, it should be like >> wild. What do you do for work? I'm curious.

I'm a lighting sales Sorry, you broke up. >> lighting sales rep for commercial.

A lighting sales rep?

Yeah. I imagine that involves some details, right?

You got to know the customers, know the products.

Too many. We represent like 208 different manufacturers right now.

Sounds like you know some details. And so, I think what's happened is we've been lackadaisical with our money cuz we can sort of out-earn our stupidity. But, the problem here is not settling a $1,000 debt. The problem here is you're going to make $1,000 at work today.

If you make 220 grand a year, that's about every work day you have in a year. So, let's take advantage of this amazing income and go, "I'm cutting up the cards. I'm only going to use money I have in the bank. I'm going to sell this car just because I know it was a mistake.

I'm going to purchase something in cash, and I'm going to be a kind of person who can save up for that." And guess what?

So, you would suggest buying something um buying something else. I mean, obviously, I know it was kind of a dumb decision, right? >> What kind of car is this? America wants to know.

It's a Defender 130. Oh, see, you knew

the details there.

You didn't just walk [laughter] up and say I'll take any old car you got. So, here's what >> Lindsey knows what she wants to know.

The hardest part's going to be swallowing your pride and selling that car and buying something that is not a Defender 130 brand new. Yeah. Or if you can pay this off in a year, Lindsey, I would be okay with you keeping it, but [music] you actually have to do a plan and say I'm putting all of this extra money towards paying off debt. So, you're going to live on nothing. >> $6,000 a month just going to the car.

>> Everything is going to be going to this car. >> to do that, it needs to be sold tomorrow.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to The Ramsey show in the Fairwinds [music] Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with

good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Kamel. We are answering your questions, so give us a call at 888-825-5225.

And we do this show every day from 1:00 to 4:00 Central Time, so you can come and visit us. We are just south of Nashville in Franklin. We had a We had a full house today here on Memorial Day weekend. Uh and it's yeah, it's always fun and it's always fun when we get to see people and interact and say hi.

Sometimes lonely here behind the >> box of emotion we find ourselves in. But when y'all are out there, we appreciate it. And George, we actually went on the road and did the show live in front of a bigger audience than what we had here.

>> Couple hundred people. It was awesome. >> And it was so fun. We did these >> in April. Yeah, we did these like small kind of theaters around, some in Southern California. We were in Orlando, where we were Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix >> There we go. >> and Anaheim area. I blacked out for a second. >> to be specific. [laughter] Orlando was last fall. >> Orlando was last fall, yeah.

I can't keep up. I I can't >> Yeah, May has been something, but >> But there were some great moments and the team did a great job with these events in the video side of it. And you get to see the emotion on their faces, the laughter, the tears, the awkward debates with their spouse standing next to them. >> That's right, yeah.

So make sure to check those episodes out, you guys. I think we have three out of the four that are out, and so you can check them out on the channel. And yeah, it was just kind of a fun different way to do the Ramsey show, but we loved it. Loved being there.

All right, let's go to Atlanta, Georgia, and we have Catherine on the line. Hi, Catherine.

Hi, thank you. Yes, absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

Um several years ago, my mother-in-law moved in with me and my husband, and she's been living with us since then. And despite the mother-in-law Uh, stereotypes out there, she's actually been fabulous. Um, but while she watches our kids, um,

and started that 4 years ago, she doesn't pay anything for like room and board. Mhm. She has helped a lot with like household items and things like that. But when you think of the whole scope of it, I'm like, "Oh, that's a lot of money." And I don't know if that's something we should ask her, my husband's siblings to help contribute to, or even my mother-in-law herself.

To contribute to like uh, like paying rent and for utilities, is that what you mean specifically?

Yeah, like toward Yeah, like essentially like room and board. We do pay a lot.

It's like the food, too. Like pretty much every day like necessities.

>> expected on her part?

I I guess that would be it, yeah.

Expected not to pay, you mean? >> Yeah, it's expected that she doesn't pay and that you guys get all the groceries.

>> just because of child care, how how often is she watching the kids?

She watches the kids, so it's been one kid every day or when I was working full-time for 4 years. And then I just

had a child, so it's going to be a 4-year-old and a a little baby. And then it'll be 5 days a week. Okay.

>> Wow. And you're not paying her for that.

Correct, yeah. Yeah, I think she's kind of earned her keep. >> are getting the deal out of this, not her. Yeah. >> Cuz what you would pay for someone to watch those kids, I mean, you're talking about a nanny, a live-in nanny situation, is what you pay. >> pay a full salary, you know, 40, 50 grand a year for that person. So, you're not paying that.

Um, so I think she's probably earning her keep, if you if you ask me.

Yeah, that makes sense. >> And was anything established early on of, you know, whose decision was it for her to live with you guys?

Um, it was really was me and my husband's joint decision. She was, um, in an abusive marriage, and so we essentially got her out of her house and for safety reasons and then she got divorced and I was like, you stay here like as long as you need and even if you want to stay, stay, that's fine. Um, and that's just what it turned into for like a year and a half and then I had my son and things just stayed the same.

Okay, so I do wonder if there's any level of you, Catherine, having a a low level, you sound very pleasant and peaceful, but a low level of frustration that that an urgent thing needed to be done and I think you guys made the right decision, right? I think if anyone was in that position and their mom was, you know, in a dangerous situation, come live. But then the fact that there was no, um, that that act now has become the rest of your life as you see it because there's no other conversation of her leaving.

Um, that I would be I would think for

myself, Catherine, you know, pretty intently like, hey, what do I want my life and my household to look like in the next four or five years? Is it that you're going to be working full-time and until these kiddos go to off to kindergarten, you're going to need help and actually it's a gift that she's there, but we know when that time comes, maybe, you know, she can find her own place or maybe it's in 12 months that that happens.

Can we just can we talk about it cuz it just feels like it's like ambiguous

and and and that ambiguity is causing probably some level of like, oh crap, this is now forever. Should she be paying towards the mortgage cuz she's living here? You don't even need to like say that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I think that just was never established cuz you sort of all stumbled into the situation and you all love each other and it all made sense and now you're going, we probably should have some level of boundaries here about what this looks like, what is the responsibilities for everybody. >> is, you know. >> Cuz she might also get resentful and go, "Wait, I just realized I'm not getting paid for this. This is crazy that I'm watching two kids five days a week." >> And she can't create her own financial independence at all from you all.

You know what I mean?

would I would not want that to happen without some conversations of just the plan. Hey, what are we desiring? What are we wanting? What's the plan going forward?

That makes sense. Ambiguity does make me anxious. Yep. So And that's fair. I hadn't thought about it that way. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.

Yeah, and I and I don't think that's mean of you or, you know what I mean?

That you're a bad daughter-in-law or, you know, anything like that.

Um but especially when you start mixing, you know, families um and living situations, when it's not talked about and established and expectations and desires and wants and fears, all of that is pushed out on the table and talked about, uh it can get messy really quickly. And some people do it well. I think we had a call maybe this week even about that, George, when I was on with you in on Monday. There's ways to do it well, but it takes a lot of communication on the front end, and it takes healthy people on every side of it.

That's the other part. >> Yes. And Catherine, you know, opening that conversation may end up in resulting possibly of her saying, "You know what?

get some independence." Which may mean she moves out and gets a job and you got to figure out, you know, childcare stuff. Like I, you know, I don't know what that means, but I think being true to yourself and what you guys want is going to be the most important long term. There's a saying around here at Ramsey to be unclear is to be unkind.

That's right. So it's actually the nicest thing you can do Yes.

>> is to communicate with clarity. Even if you go, "Oh, that didn't feel good in the moment." Mhm. least we all know where we stand. There's no ambiguity.

Okay, that quote's good. And then what does Deloney say about uh resentment versus Oh, um choose Oh, no. Sorry,

Deloney. Do you remember? >> Choose guilt over resentment. Yes. >> Yeah, that's it. Choose guilt over resentment. You feel >> to feel guilty. Maybe trying to have this conversation, you feel bad about it, but you'd rather have that that emotion than resentment build over the next couple years.

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, Woody is in Atlanta, Georgia.

Hi, welcome to the show. >> [music] >> Hello. How are you guys doing?

>> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

So, my wife and I, we've been married for a long time and we started Financial Peace University around 2007 before we got married

at Jonesboro First Baptist Church. And so, we followed the baby steps pretty much. We're 40 and 41 now and I've

noticed that I can't seem to switch it off anymore because I'm constantly just thinking about like savings and investing and uh we actually have a pension at our workplace and I've noticed that our like our 401k and our 457 and stuff like that have actually reached to like 1.2 million dollars already and >> Wow. And yes, that's like gotten to the point where am I really enjoying the money that I'm saving? What It's almost like I get anxiety when I spend on frivolous things. But I will give money away if I, you know, to people when they need it for certain things, but it's almost like Mhm.

we only have really, cuz my wife is a teacher and I I'm in public safety, so

we retire pretty early like at 52 years old. So, we got about 11 10 years left to really work and and it's going to be about $150,000 a year just for the pension alone. So, So, you're basically saying we're good on the investment side. How do I unlock this spending side cuz even when I do spend, I don't enjoy it.

Right. Yeah, cuz I mean we we paid off all our debts. Um You got a mortgage?

>> No, we paid off our house. We followed all the baby steps. We we completed everything. >> you guys. As a teacher and what what did you say you did? I'm sorry. >> Public safety. Okay, yes. Well done you guys. That's amazing. That is amazing.

What's your wife What's your wife like with money?

>> Um she just she really she sticks to the plan that I just kind of go, "Hey, we need to just do this." and she just kind of steps back and um just allows me to invest and just

just do whatever. And then, you know, we go on vacations. We enjoy just hanging out with each other, but we live very I guess minimally cuz we really don't spend that much money on just random things anymore. >> Sure. Yeah. Is there things you want to do, but you can't get yourself to do it?

Experiences, things.

>> I've always interested in the fire movement just you know, cuz public safety is one of those things where I can't just leave work because um things may happen that I need to be there for. So, I you know, I deal with emergency management. So, it's pretty much for a whole county. So, it's not something I could just leave and go on vacation. So, I guess my big thing right now is just focus on like financial independent retire early, but we're there.

So, you want to go on more vacations, but you can't do to your role?

Yeah. If I could snap my fingers, that's where I'm going. Where would you put your money if I snap my fingers today?

Is it a hobby? Is it a thing? Is it upgrading the car? Is it you know, buying back your time? You guys are doing things you don't want to do.

Probably buying back time. I mean, that's pretty much what I focus on. I've noticed that that's all I kind of think about right now is like Hmm, can I actually retire early? Cuz I mean, our house is you're not even part of the net worth.

Our house I don't even count the house as part of our net worth. >> Sure. Do you guys have kids? What do you do? >> Yes, ma'am. Um I have a 3-year-old and we've already funded his um 529 and it's I believe you, Woody. I believe you. I believe you. You have been uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh uh Yes. You funded your grandkids.

>> You've got an A+ plus for the for the Financial Peace University graduate.

>> You won the prize. >> Um okay, so you know, what I think about Woody a lot when it comes to spending is

a couple of things. One, you want to have that muscle built, right? Because like you said, you're going to just end up hoarding, not enjoying anything. And part of the

gift and the blessing of being diligent is that you reap what you sow. And you guys have sowed really well, right?

You've put in a lot of patience and wisdom and sacrifice. And so now you're going to have the ability to do some really fun things in life, but you won't be able to have fun with those things if you don't enjoy letting go of some of this money. So, that's one thought. And then um Arthur Brooks, who we just love so much, he talks about there's five things you can do with money. And four of them will actually actually bring you a level of happiness, okay?

One, generosity, which you already mentioned in this call, which I love that about you. So, yes, always looking at ways to be generous. That actually has a level of happiness in your life.

Um one of them is buying your time back, just what George said. So, are there things, conveniences in life with having a 3-year-old, that maybe your wife's like, "Hey, I would love grocery delivery. I don't want to go to the grocery anymore. Let's let's do that." Or let's have someone come clean the house. Like, I don't know what that looks like for you guys, but what are things that you can spend money on to actually get your time back or your wife's time back.

And and do something productive with that time, he says. The third is to spend it on experiences with people you love. So, find if you can find the time. I hear that your job is uh very taxing in that way, but if there are moments of reprieve that you can say, "No, I can get PTO here." Go enjoy those, and take take your you know, take your son, take another couple with you guys that you love, or I don't know what that looks like, but go and have some experiences with people you love.

And then the fourth is actually saving.

And then the fifth thing you can do with money, it's not a bad thing, it just won't bring you happiness, it's just buying stuff. So, um but again, there's a little bit of me wanting to like kind of wants you just to buy some stuff. I kind of want you to get in your in your budget every month have a line item of just like >> that line item. That That's the one thing you have to do in the budget is spend on this thing.

And it can be as tactical like my husband and I, we will spend differently, okay?

>> She's a quantity gal, and Winston's a quality guy. >> be like, "Let's upgrade the water hose." Or whatever it is, you know, right? And he's like, "There's a purpose to it, it's tactical." But he's like, "Let's go buy a nice one." Like, that's where he'll spend. But find things that you can spend money on throughout the month because that will help you let go of some of this because it will Money can control you. It can control you on one end if you're broke, and you have no

money, right? There's a level of control there because you're stressed out all the time, but it also on the other end of the spectrum can have the control where you have this false sense of deep security, and opening your hands and

letting some money go kind of counteracts that.

Yeah. So, what has been a feature Woody is now a bug. That's the problem. The feature was, man, you're so good at living on less than you make, so good at saving, and now that you made it, it is a bug that we need to debug. And that's why I

buy random stuff.

I do buy random stuff. I I mean, we got two Teslas. I mean, I literally bought two back-to-back, and then I was like, well, those are paid off, so I I think I

think giving away my money at this point is going to be what to my like family members and stuff. I think I think it's going to be the best bet because we we put away a good bit of money into vacations too now, and so um

I just it's kind of hard for me to shut it off because if money's just sitting around in the bank or something, I feel like I'm not getting a lot of interest off of it, so I end up just investing it, and that's all I seem to do with just standing money. Yeah, and I think that's okay, too. I mean, my husband and I that I mean, we'll get to a place where we have a high-yield savings account, we'll put some money in, and then we'll look up, and we're like, okay, you know, there's some money in there, and it's just sitting there, we could invest that, and so we'll take, you know, some of that money and put it back into investment.

it sounds like what you just said gives me some level of relief. Maybe you're doing better than you think you are. What do you think? Yeah, I I think some therapy would be the next good purchase to go, what's underneath all the scarcity mindset?

How do I, you know, kind of unlock this abundance mindset now that I actually have it? Nothing is on fire, and yet I always feel like something's on fire. That might be part of your wiring. I mean, you're in public safety, you're always like waiting for the the other shoe to drop.

That might be part of it. I came from a communist country, so that probably had a lot to do with it. >> Oh, yeah.

Well, we uh I was from Vietnam. My mom like we escaped Vietnam after the the the war and everything, and so >> Yes. Um I mean, I was a little kid, but

it was just like years after, and like lived really poor, so I guess that I can't switch it off. My brother's the same way, so >> Yeah. Which makes sense, right? When you can connect those dots.

Like, you're not crazy, right? I mean, what you've lived through and experienced, you're like, there's no way I want to I want to go back to that. But again, [music] that's a good motivator to get you to a place of security and [music] safety with money, which is what's happened. So, now, not still depending on that same wiring is what's going to be key.

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Today's question comes from Grayson in Maine. I'm having trouble with baby step two.

I've saved the $1,000 emergency fund, but can't seem to make any headway on paying off our debt. I have three daughters under 13. It's difficult for me to go fully scorched earth when I want to still give them a decent childhood and provide the things they need. How can I stop feeling stuck?

What a good dad. The dad guilt. It's real. Wow. Okay, so the I think there's a The issue here is we are pinning getting out of debt and not spending money to bad childhood.

And I think you can have a great childhood and not buy your way into it. And getting out of

debt doesn't take their entire childhood. It may take two, four years,

um, but not their entire childhood. And

uh, I I mean, I say this about my kids, I don't know if you feel like this, George, really what they want is you.

And you playing with them, being involved in their lives, doing things not necessarily that cost money, but just spending time with them, being around them. There is something to There's something to that that I think we we gloss over and think we they just need more stuff.

And just keep pushing that agenda when at the end of the day, yeah, do do teenagers want stuff? Absolutely. I'm not saying that, but but truly the priority of who what what is being built within them and their character is really going to come from you and the time spent with them. Well, and if you're in debt the whole time they're going through childhood, you're not going to be fully present.

You're going to be stressed. There's going to be financial burdens that will take you away from letting you enjoy them as children.

as they enter their teenage years, which is when things really get expensive.

You know, they're going to start wanting There's clothes, there's prom, there's all the activities, the sports, college funding, all of that you're going to be able to do so much easier without this debt in your life. So, uh some of this is just not feeling the dad guilt that you're doing a bad job and some of it is going short season. And your parenting might look different than other people's parenting in that season. And that's okay, too, right?

So-and-so maybe do an X, Y, and Z with their kids and you you're not because you are putting that money towards getting out of debt again, which is not forever. It's not their entire childhood. They're going to promise promise they're going to be okay. All right, let's go to Eunice in LA.

welcome to the show.

Hello. Very nice to hear your voice, guys. Oh, well, thank you. You as well.

Thanks for calling. How can we help?

So, uh I've been in USA for almost 4 years. Um my background is about uh um like meat

shop businesses uh back in my country for my family.

And when I came here, I started working with somebody that he owns a retail store um in a good location.

And right now he's going to retire. So,

he was offered for me the store for 300k.

And I was um I had like $50,000

um to give it to give to give it to him as a uh down payment.

So, I'm thinking the question is I'm thinking if I uh go ahead and buy the store

I mean buy the the the the business or

go and take that 50,000 and open my own shop.

So, that's my question.

Okay. Um would you be able to open your

own shop with 50,000 or were you going to plan on borrowing money as well to do that?

Yeah, I do have a friend that he can borrow for me like another 75 uh without a without a interest.

Okay. Um Yunus, I think it's a terrible idea >> [laughter] >> to borrow any type of money uh for

anything and especially when it comes to small businesses and especially in the

food industry. That's the number one

industry that ends up closing its doors and then people end up owing so much and not because you're not great at what you do, it just is what it is. And so, when

you add debt to the picture you add on stress, you add on a lot of risk and you add in levels of decisions

that you make in order for the business in order to pay the payment that may not be great decisions long-term for the business. So, there is something about the peace of mind and moving slowly and moving with the speed of cash to grow something that doesn't lock you into a

small business loan or worse owing your friend money that he's going to get for you and then when the if something happens and it then the shop closes up, now you owe your friend money and it may take, you know, four or five years to pay pay off. And so, staying

ahead financially is not going backwards and going into debt.

Okay. What's the net profit of the business every year?

Um like uh 120

k. Okay. So, they're basically valued at at little uh under three times that.

[snorts] At 300,000.

Yeah. Okay. Have you talked to him about a potential agreement where you basically pay him income out of the profits until he hits a certain amount?

Uh we were we were thinking about it.

Yeah. That's a much safer way to do this and the only way I would do it is this sort of sweat equity agreement where you pay him a certain amount of the profits, maybe it's a certain amount, a certain percentage, until you hit 300,000. And

at that point, he's cut off. And it's almost like you yeah, you're you're paying for it as you go versus

going getting a $300,000 loan and then

having the bank be the one that's, you know, in charge of it all. Because with this other agreement, you you have not borrowed money at that point under your name.

Right. Uh but actually um he's offering for me like 300k under

his uh loan. So, I'm going to pay him like uh a seller finance method. Yeah, but that's a very different situation than you paying him out of a percentage of profits. Let's say 25% of profits to him until it's paid back. You see what I mean? Cuz then if the profits aren't there, you're not on the hook. And so, I would have a business attorney draft this up to avoid you having carrying all of this risk.

Okay. So, if you look at 25%, you're talking 30 grand a year. So, it'd be 10 years to fully pay him back. Now, you guys might agree on a different percentage, maybe it's 40%, so he gets paid in less than 10 years. But this idea that you're going to take on a quarter million dollar debt hoping this all works out perfectly is just you're jumping off a cliff.

Yes, right. >> Yep. So, so yeah, staying away from any

debt situation. And if you can yeah, create some kind of agreement with them with George was saying, that's that's what we would recommend. So, thanks for the call. Um George, we have a question from Facebook. And Natalie asks, "We are planning an out-of-state move and we'll be paying off our debt with the sale of our home. This feels like we are cheating on the plan. So, how can we make sure that we feel the pinch and

don't go back into poor money habits?"

Go That's it. That's that's That's the question. >> very self-aware. So, they're going, "Hey, we'll knock out the debt with the sale of the home, but we know we sort of shortcutted it and it worked out." But our behavior hasn't necessarily changed.

How do we make sure it's changed? Oof. I mean, that's the honor system at that point, but one way to know that is have

you actually been budgeting? Are you living on less than you make? Is there margin every month? Have you shut down all of your debt accounts including your credit cards?

Yep. Have you frozen your credit so you can't get back into debt even if you wanted to? That tells me that the behavior's changed. >> Yes, if there's any kind of friction you can put into place is going to be huge.

And especially on the debt side. And just like what you were saying, George, closing accounts uh you and your husband saying, "Hey, together we are agreeing we are not borrowing money. So, there's going to be no avenue for debt. So, we're going to get rid of the credit cards.

We're getting rid of this or that." And and start living on a budget. So, start practicing living on less than you make now, and that will [music] create the habit. So, pain is a great teacher. And people that have a lot of pain and sacrifices they go through Baby Step 2, [music] they're like, "I'm done.

When I'm done, I'm done." >> you're not going back. But if you bypass the hot stove, you may not have learned a lesson. >> That's right, but I think you can still do it. We still people you know, we see people [music] do it, but um but I think it's very very wise that you're cautious about this.

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All right, let's go to Sylvia in Seattle. Hey, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. >> Absolutely. My I am interested in your thoughts on paying off my mortgage as a whole in one payment or splitting it up in 2 years to

reduce the amount of tax burden I would have to pay with a large sum.

Where is the tax burden coming from? Are you selling off assets? Well, no. I'm just saying my income tax if I pay $150,000 in one sum, that will take me into a higher tax bracket. Where if I split them amount in 50 to $50,000

per year, then that keeps me in the lowest tax bracket. I I'm retired. I'm 73 years old. I have social security and

my 401k the funds to pay for the um

the mortgage which comes out of my 401k.

>> that's traditional and therefore it increased your income tax. Got it. Okay.

How much do you have in the 401k?

About 600 About 700,000.

And how much are you going to pull out to pay off the home?

It's $129,000 right now.

Do you have any other assets?

>> I'm debt Well, I have $3 million in um property. >> Oh, so you pulled out of the 401k >> And those are all paid for?

They're everything's paid for but my house. I My husband died in 2018 and I got on to the Dave Ramsey program and paid [clears throat] off my debts about $300,000.

And then I got breast cancer.

Wow, well done.

I paid everything off.

>> Yeah. It's been a tough couple of years. So, how much do you Did you um Did you run the numbers and do you know exactly how much extra you'll be paying because of the tax bracket if you paid it off all in one lump sum?

Well, my income is 60,000 a year.

So, I can pay off about 40,000 safely to 50 a 50,000

safely and keep me in a lower tax bracket, the lowest tax bracket for my state. Okay.

I mean, I wouldn't wait because of the taxes. I would calculate and go, "Okay, I know it's going to be an extra, let's say, $10,000 total in what I actually will owe the IRS, and I'm okay with that

for the idea of being completely debt-free, not paying any more interest on my mortgage, and having that peace of mind." And so, that's kind of the trade-off here, but I also wonder if there's a different way to do this. And I'm wondering if you would maybe sell one of the properties, pay off your mortgage, and sock away the rest in an investment account to sort of diversify your portfolio anyways.

That That is a thought.

Um the kids have interests in in the property and the housing properties and they're resistant wanting not wanting me to sell it because their vacation It's a vacation property that's worth about $250,000.

That would easily pay it off, but What are the other properties?

>> The other property is timberland. I I live in a rural area and I grow timber.

And that's my crop.

>> Last year we >> we lost $100,000.

>> Brought in $100,000 for six acres of timber. Where did that money go?

That money went into a kind of an emergency fund and I've been using that to do home repairs and

you know, roof put a new roof on my house and Could you sell more of that?

Not for another four years. Okay. We have We have a plan you know, we have it planned out because the timber market is very it's it's a crop you know, it's like gold it goes up and down. Mhm.

And right now right now with the political climate the um

American woods are not you know, lumber is not doing well. Okay. As well as it could. >> Yeah, well I don't think you're in any kind of trouble. So if you decided to do this over two years or something, I mean I think you're going to be fine either way. So it would just be the peace of

mind that you just have personally to say it's worth paying a little extra in the penalty of the extra taxes just to know that I'm done. That I'm done and I can just live my life and not have to worry about it. And for a lot of people it's kind of worth it and especially cuz you're you're going to be fine.

And and because you have these other properties that if something ever got in trouble you could sell. That essentially is your nest egg at this point cuz you'll have you know, little over half a million left in that retirement account which is awesome but the real value here is those three million in properties.

That's right. >> why I asked if you can offload a little bit of that, maybe your least favorites but it sounds like it's mostly land plus the vacation home. >> Right. Right. All right, let's go to Sophie in Austin.

Hi Sophie, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

Okay, so my husband and I have been together for about 16 years. We're about

in in debt 26,000 in medical debt. Um

he currently is not working and hasn't had a paycheck since before December.

I only make part-time income. Um

I work Tyra, you're breaking up on us, Sophie. Can you speak directly into your phone?

Um

So, I heard 26K medical debt. He hasn't worked since December. You're working part-time. What are you making?

Um well, part-time I make about 120 a day depending on how many days I can work. What does that turn into a month?

It just depends. Sometimes it's 600 a month. Sometimes it's less than that. Um come August I'll be making 2,600 a month.

Okay. How how are you guys paying bills right now?

Well, um I don't know. I paid all of the month of

May. Um I found out like I just So, my husband left. He went to a different state and just kind of left me and the kids here. It's like he kind of just threw a bomb and we're taking care of it on our own. Um my parents have helped, but Oh, wow.

Okay. So, your marriage is falling apart. He's left.

Yeah. Is he wanting a divorce? Like is he going to be going through some proceedings?

Um we've tossed it around. It's definitely in consideration. Why did he Why did he leave?

He said that he left to go work with some friends.

Uh but he's been gone about a month now and he's only sent us maybe about $700

since he's been gone and that has basically not covered much of anything.

So, I've had to lean on my >> know Do you know said Do you know said friends?

I know the friends, yeah. And they're they're really working.

Yeah, they say that they're working.

Okay. Well, I mean, at this point he should just come home and work cuz he can do, um, you know, minimum wage job

and make more than this.

Yeah, and before he left, I practically begged him to stay and it's like, you can work here. You don't need to go work there. Um, I think our priorities are different and I get that we're both stressed, we're both overwhelmed, but his tendency to leave is very much a

pattern and I'm at the point where I'm like, should the kids and I just call it quits, just move out and file for divorce, and start fresh, and sell everything. Do you guys own the home? If I'm being honest, we do own the home, but the problem is is I, since he's been gone, I've been having to deal with all these finances, everything's in his name. My name's not on anything and so I can't actually sell anything to help.

Um, and I don't have, all I have is $1,600.

I opened up my own bank account and moved my paycheck over there and that's all I have and that's not enough to move out. >> No, um, no, it's not. It's, um, gosh, Sophie, I'm so, I'm so sorry. So,

I mean, I would make one la- last ditch effort and saying, if you don't, I mean, it's kind of an ultimatum. If you don't come home You've opted out of this family. and us work on this marriage together, um, [music] then yeah, you probably will be looking at a at a future where you're not together. And that that then that will be his choice, Sophie. That's his choice to do that.

>> [music] >> And then in that case, yeah, you need some good family and community around and stable income. >> Yep, and you'll have to go [music] through the proceedings and then he will probably have to to pay and, you know, get the >> will be split But but again, the when we get there. >> and the hope is that it's reconciled [music] and you have to be able to and I would give him that option, but he has to choose.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruze hosting with George Kamel and we are answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888-825-5225.

We're talking about your life and your money. All right, kicking us off this hour is Ja- uh Jason in Jackson.

>> twister. Yeah. Hey Jason, welcome to the show. Hey, how are y'all? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So, I'm basically contemplating if it's a good decision to go back to school and accrue about $65,000 worth of debt. Okay.

>> Now, I would be going back part-time, so I'd be remaining a full-time worker during uh All right. What are you going to school for? Um civil engineering. Nice. It's a good field. What are you doing now?

I have an associate's in um AutoCAD technology.

Okay. So, you're you're kind of adjacent to the civil engineering world now in what you do? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Very I pretty much do it. I've I just don't have the degree for it. What are you making?

Um I make around $62,000 a year. That's

a pretty good income.

To not have a four-year degree.

Yeah, and I would be increasing it to about 82. If you had the degree.

Yes, sir. Okay. So, we're going to spend 80 to make 20 more, take you four years to break even. That's without interest and without the payments. I'm I'm trying to figure out how we can cash flow this thing cuz I love the the goal and the dream. >> Are you working for a company right now that you would probably stay at if you had this other degree?

Yes, and that that's a big thing pushing this. My top out right now in my current position isn't all that much compared to what it could be if I do go get that 4-year degree. Okay, and >> um I would be increasing my top out from 77 to 112. Okay. Okay.

And the company now, have you talked to their HR department? Is there any benefits of any level of tuition that's paid if you choose to stay to work with them?

Um so right now that's a gray area.

Hasn't happened in the past. Okay.

>> not something to rely on. Okay. But you So what makes it gray and not just like no, that's not an option? Did they kind of open a door because of a conversation you had with them?

Possibly, but nothing's guaranteed as of right now. Okay. And what college have you gotten accepted into?

Um Oregon State University, which is the only college in the United States that offers this program online.

There's no other civil engineering programs that are online in the country?

None that are ABET-accredited.

Oh, interesting. Hm. So they can charge what they want for it, it sounds like.

Pretty much. >> How many years is this program?

Um so you can the max you can go on it is 10, so they don't require you to be very aggressive at it, but I'm guessing I'll be doing it since I'm I'll be part-time. Probably it'll probably take me about 6 years.

Oh, wow. >> guessing I'll be doing it.

I don't love that.

It's already going to take forever to get there, and then it's going to take you another another whole bunch of time to pay it off. That's right. Yeah.

Um it doesn't sound like a great plan, not only from the debt aspect, but also

the timeline aspect. So I'm just wondering is there There's no colleges

in Jackson or near Jackson or in your state to do

it locally cheaper. >> at all. Yeah.

There is, but it's in person and you know, that would take away from my current income and I do have bills, which is would be the only reason I couldn't couldn't do that.

>> What would that What does that option look like? I'm just curious. Would it take you a 2 years to complete or is it 4? It would be probably about 4. Yes, ma'am. Okay. And do they offer any

tracks of having classes at night that

if you did go to work full-time and then you were a student?

No, ma'am.

You'd have to be during the day.

Yes, ma'am. >> Okay.

Yeah, I don't know I mean Yeah, Jason, I just I in good faith I couldn't tell you and I mean the jump in income is it it's good, right? But it's not double, right? What you would make and if it takes you 6 years to complete

and then actually I mean you you won't see that money for Yeah, I'm wondering can you can you just stack cash for 2 years and then pursue this?

Um potentially and as of right now I'm on track to be debt-free in about 5 years. How much debt do you have?

Um 58,000. What kind of debt is that?

So I have about 20,000 in a vehicle and

then another 35 in a house.

Oh, and then on a mortgage?

Yes. Wow, how is it so low?

So y'all aren't going to like this, but it's a it's a mobile home. It was a very temporary fix to a a problem That was my fear. that I was having. Okay. So this thing's like going down in value.

Yes. Yes, that is. >> What is it worth today?

Um about 64.

I had it appraised last year. And what's the car worth?

The car is worth let's see and that's on two vehicles. One is on I think it's

worth 18 last I checked and the other one 16. Why do you have two vehicles?

So one of them is a It's a side-by-side. Y'all consider that a vehicle, right? I consider it a toy.

>> [laughter] >> That is in the way of you pursuing your dream. One is is a toy then, yes. And you won't have time to do that if you're pursuing school and working full-time, right?

That is right, which is mainly just used around the house and all that. Can we do some math together? You ready for this, Jason? You're telling me you got 20K worth of these car loans and the toy. They're worth 34 total, right?

Yes, sir. So you could profit 14 off of that. You could profit about 29 from your mobile home if you sold it.

You tracking with me?

Yes, sir. That gives you $43,000 and you go rent somewhere and use that 43 grand to start cash flowing this degree and you save up the other 20 over the next couple of years cuz you'll be debt free. You freed up those payments.

Now we can save that cash.

Yes, sir.

I think we just found the answer. I don't think you'll like it, but that's that's what I would do if I was in your shoes. >> In a heartbeat. Cuz everything in your life right now is going down in value and you owe payments on it. So what if you rented for a season, worked on this degree, and finished it even sooner?

Yeah, finish it in 4 years versus 6 cuz you work your butt off doing it online.

And yeah. Save a couple hundred bucks a month to cash flow the final years and you're there.

Okay. Okay. The only problem is is in the small town that I am from, there is not very [clears throat] many rental options.

I bet you can find something, Jason.

Nobody would be willing to rent a room to you? They would. It's just extremely high from what I've seen in the past, which is why I went with the mobile home option. What's high?

Um I think last time I looked

I I tried I tried to find the cheapest.

It was about $800 to rent a mobile home.

No, no, no, we're not talking about renting a mobile home. We're renting an apartment.

Oh, an apartment? >> Or a house or or a room in a house with roommates. So, they're looking for a roommate. >> Let's just take mobile homes off the table. Okay, yeah, I haven't looked at that market at all, really. >> Okay, so that's probably what I would do. Yes. >> Cuz you're bringing home over four grand a month right now?

Yes, sir. So, let's keep that rent to no more than a thousand bucks a month.

Yes, sir. And you'll be better off than being underwater in this mobile home in a couple years and it's worth nothing.

And Jason, too, your income can continue to go up. You said your the the ceiling was around 75, I think you said. So, you still through these these next four years while you're in school and you're going to go to school cash flowing at the way George has laid it out. Your income's going to continue to go up. So, >> [music] >> yes, I think it's a great move to do it but you would have to cash flow, which means you're going to make some big decisions.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> So, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsey principles. [music] And we now have so many people and

they're asking questions, George. So, we can actually start to see some trends of questions people are asking.

>> It's like being able to see people's Google searches, but >> Yes, I know. >> financial. >> But, there's a lot around insurance and investing. And so, one of the main questions is how do I know how much

house I can afford based on my salary and financial situation? Um so, again,

insurance and investing was asked a lot, but I just saw here the most asked question is around buying a home. So, the core rule here is that your more monthly mortgage payments should never exceed 25% of your monthly take-home pay. And that 25% will include your principal, interest, property taxes, homeowners insurance, PMI, HOA fees. All

of that is included in that 25%.

And why we say that a fourth of your take-home pay is so that it frees up the rest of your money. 75% of the money that you have then can be going towards debt. If you have consumer debt, you can be using it for investing or saving. And so, what happens is people can quickly get into a home and it's 50% of their

take-home pay and they just don't have a lot left when it comes to even just food, right? And and paying basic bills.

>> a blessing. That's right. So, that's why it's conservative. It's so that you have more money left over to pay off the mortgage early, invest for college, go on vacation, upgrade the car, so you actually have a life instead of just a house.

So, Ask Ramsey is a great tool, can help you determine how much house you can afford based on your specific financial situation. Go check it out for yourself. Ask your question today, go to ramseysolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Yeah, it's a I Have you Have you gone on it a lot, George?

>> Oh, I use it a lot. It's fun. It's my only friend as I just chat with Ask Ramsey cuz it'll talk back to me. And it talks to you.

Gives you some some encouragement. >> It's the only one who wants to nerd out with me. Like, let's crunch some numbers. >> wondering about this?

That's all we're always my follow-up. I love the follow-ups of like, have you thought about this? And you're like, show me more, tell me more.

All right, let's go to Mary in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Hi Mary, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely, how can we help?

Well, I own $178,000

in debt and I have probably another 20,000 will be added to that by the end of the year. Ooh. Um I make about 125 a

year, between 120 and 125.

Um and I'm kind of wondering but the problem is is my monthly cash flow.

So, it's getting getting ahead as it stands. I'm an LLC and I am not

currently taking out enough for taxes

and that just keeps adding every year.

So, I'm wondering if it's time to consider bankruptcy.

No. >> wow. Okay, good. For a thousand reasons, but number one, you're not going to be able to discharge the IRS debt in bankruptcy.

How much do you owe in taxes?

Oh, goodness. I owe 46,000 in back taxes

and I have yet to file 2025, which will be the most likely additional 20,000 by the end of the year. Oh, that's where that 20 came from, okay. Did Did that 46 count in your 178, that number you gave us?

Yes. Okay. What's the other debt?

So, the other debt is a hundred thousand well, about 96,000 in student loans.

Um and then I have probably $35,000

in credit card debt.

Uh I'm paying 2,500 a month right now on

credit cards. Ooh. Um 500 to a debt relief program, which would only take about 20,000. So, um

since bankruptcy's not an option, I'm wondering should I throw my money at my

credit cards that the debt relief would not take um and increase my monthly cash

inflow or do I just need to crunch it

and focus on taxes? Um well, the IRS

always gets moved to the front of your debt snowball. So, unless, which I don't know if you can, if you want to go try to get a loan for that 46, pay off the IRS, and

then you just owe a credit union instead of the IRS, it's probably a better deal.

And if that's the case, then you will just put that in your debt snowball. The issue is that debt relief company tanked your credit. So, you're I don't know if anyone's going to give you a dollar at this point cuz that's how these companies work. They tell you to stop paying on the debts, give us that money instead, collections comes after you, and they try to settle with collections.

Yes. So, have you talked to the IRS yet?

Um I I haven't. I'm on a payment plan

Okay. with them. So, I So, I'm good with that.

Um but it's the now taking out current taxes to not get more in debt.

Yeah. >> Yeah, that's right. Yeah, you need to start paying your quarterlies, especially here in 2026, Mary. Have you done that already? Like have you set that up for this calendar year?

Um no, I'm taking out my CPA takes out

monthly payroll, and they take out taxes there. Um, >> But they did not do that in 2025.

Uh, no. Uh-uh. No. What I did is not enough. Um, and which is why I've not filed yet, because I was kind of shocked at how much I owed in 2024, uh, even with my my uh, write-offs. So, I've just not filed yet, because I know I'm going to owe more in, and I can't pay right now. How

long have you had a CPA?

Uh, two years, three years? And they didn't

catch any of this?

Um, no. I No, they kind of send me an

email, and they're like, let us know when you want to do payroll. So, I'll just say, "Hey, let's do 2,000 payroll, or let's do 3,000, or whatever I was

able to submit in billing, cuz I'm really bad about getting all my billing submitted." Um, so, and that's that's kind of it.

I'm not really even sure how much I need to be keeping out. Um, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm really scared.

>> What are they even doing for you? They're giving you zero advice. They're not telling you to withhold enough for taxes and pay your estimates. We're giving you more tax advice than your CPA has. Okay. Based on what you told us. I don't know, but How much are you making a year, Mary?

Uh, I 125, you said that. I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, 125. >> What kind of business is this?

I'm a mental health therapist, and I'm an LLC, so I contract. Okay.

Well, the You're not going to bankrupt on the student loans or the IRS. So, this is a moot point anyways, and I would I wouldn't tell you to file anyways. You can clean this up, but it's going to take a lot of focus, and it's going to take some time.

Okay. Are you able to pick up extra clients, Mary, and work more?

I am I'm really working at my max right now. I'm working about 6 days a week, um, and I'm a single mother, so I don't want to take that extra time from my child. Okay.

Yeah, well, there's going to, you know, I'm glad you're working that much. That's That's encouraging because the income is going to be the thing that's going to matter probably the most in this situation. Um but yeah, it's going to It'll take Yeah, it's going to take you a 4 to 5 years to kind of clean all this up.

>> You're going to be throwing thousands at the debt every month and extra more than than just the minimum payments.

Otherwise, this is going to be a a 10 to 20-year journey. Are you on a really tight budget, Mary?

Uh yes, I am. I mean, I keep myself on a tight budget. >> Good. How much margin do you have per month to throw at debt?

I have after everything, all necessities, I have 1,400 a month left.

I current currently pay about 360 a month out of pocket for counseling, and if need be, I can I can forgo that for a

little bit. >> Pause that for maybe a a year or something if you need to.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, cuz I think the I think the goal would be gosh, even 2,000 a month, it's still going to be um Yeah, cuz you you're going to have about $200,000 to clean up. And so, if you factor in, you know, 24,000 a year, that's still 83 months at two grand a month being thrown at the debts. Now, you're throwing a lot at the debts already. You said you had 2,500 in credit card payments plus the IRS uh

plus the student loans. What do all those payments add up to a month?

Um oh goodness, what do The IRS is 700,

um the credit is 2,500, and then the student loans are 1,000. Okay, so $4,200

is already out the door every every time you get paid. And my guess is you probably take home around seven grand a month if you factor in taxes.

>> I on the low end, I bring home about 10

with before taxes. Okay. When you start factoring after taxes, I think what got us into hot water is forgetting that taxes are part of the game, so if you can make that seven and start paying those taxes, it will help. >> And the positive thing, Mary, is as you start paying off that lowest, even the credit card, that's going to free [music] you up a couple hundred bucks a month to keep throwing at that.

That's where the debt snowball momentum really happens. But, yeah, you got a You got a a marathon ahead of you, Mary, but you can do [music] this.

>> [music]

>> Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out, and broke. Don't be most people.

You work way too hard to be broke and

feel broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the EveryDollar budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth.

Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you.

You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> One of the best [music] parts of our job is when we get to hear from people and their stories of how that how they are winning. And we just got this great review from EveryDollar EveryDollar app.

Uh, a fan said, "Just being able to use every dollar and see all the extra we had every single month month was very motivating. We'd have thousands of extra dollars and we can just throw it at the mortgage. Absolutely amazing." Well, if you guys want to take control of your money and find some extra margin, make sure to start every dollar for free and you can do that in the App Store or Google Play.

All right, let's go to Brittany in Raleigh. Hi Brittany, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely, how can we help?

Um, so we are currently on baby step two, me and my husband, and we have a little over 100,000 in debt. We have personal loans, a credit card, and a truck payment. So, my

question is which one do we start with?

I know that baby step two calls for the lowest amount, but one of our loans has a lien on my car with it. So, would that be where we start since it's such like a high-risk loan, or should we start with

the credit card, which is the lowest amount? What kind of loan is this? Is it like a title loan, or is it a personal loan secured against the title, like from a credit union? >> It's It's a personal loan. Okay.

>> With a Yeah. Mhm, how much is that?

It's 18,000 now.

And what's your other debts? What What do they amount to?

Um, the we have a credit card that's 13,000, a truck that's 36,000,

um, a 401k loan for 15, and another

personal loan for 28,000.

>> [laughter] >> Okay. What's the truck worth?

Um, well, looking on Kelley Blue Book, it's worth between like 22 and 25.

And do you guys have anything in liquid cash right now in the bank?

Um, we have our reserve $1,000 emergency fund, so we're in baby >> How much do you guys make a year, Brittany? [clears throat] Um, well, I'm a stay-at-home mom currently. I do go back to work during the summer at like a preschool. My husband, he makes roughly 90 to 95,000 and

he made more and we recently moved and he took an unknown pay cut. So, he was making more and it was helping with the debt, but You said an unknown pay cut?

Yes. >> Like he didn't know that he would be making less? >> company. Yes, it was the same company and the same job position, but he his job runs on like the routes and stuff.

He delivers food for a living.

And his when he runs routes, he gets paid for certain things and it doesn't pay as much where we moved to.

And he didn't know that ahead of time when he was you know, signing the paperwork?

No. Hm.

Well, you got 100k in debt and about 100

to pay off. The goal would be to get out from under this truck. What's the payment on that thing?

620 a month. Mhm.

And what about the personal loan?

Um Against the car? >> The one with the against the car, it's 480 a month. Wow. So, right there you'd free up a nice chunk of change if you got rid of both of those. >> rid of that truck, yeah. What's the smallest debt that's up next based on the balance?

Um, the smallest debt that is up next

would be the credit card and it's at 13,000.

And that's all on one credit card?

Yes, it's a bank credit card.

Okay. What are y'all using it for?

Um, well, it's max currently. Um, but it was just used for groceries, gas, just kind of making up for the loss of income that he had when we moved. We moved about a year ago.

So, you spent Okay. But then there's the personal loan as well. What was that used for?

Which one? The lien?

>> Both of them. >> On the car? Um, one was for our old house And we lived. We used it to

um do renovations and fixing it up, and when we sold it, we didn't sell it for what we wanted to to be able to pay that loan back. And then the other one was for moving cost and

just catching up on everything.

>> What caused you guys to move?

Um well, it was kind of free choice move. We decided that we wanted to and the job we he moved for work as well.

You moved for work, but you get paid less?

Uh yeah. We It was unexpected, though.

Like we he was told that he would be making about the same amount as he did.

And then when we got moved and everything settled in, it just kind of lowered. It's not a huge significant amount, but it's definitely enough to notice. Like a thousand bucks a month?

Yeah, around that, yeah. Which is what you guys are used to living on, which caused the $13,000 in credit card debt.

Thousand bucks a month that you lost.

>> in the hole every month right now, or do you have enough to cover all the bills and debt payments and have anything left over? We have um somewhat left over. I'd say we have between like three and five hundred left over every month. [clears throat] Okay. So the goal now is to do a detailed budget and to find all the money we can in this $95,000 income and then some.

That might mean he's working a second job and you're picking up more work and you guys tag team and he high-fives you on the way in and you go to work. Cuz right now we need a couple of thousand dollars a month to throw at this debt.

Yes. That's the only way out. I mean, and again, getting out of that truck is going to be a real blessing if you can find the amount you're underwater on, about 10 grand, and then sell it. Do you guys have any other vehicle you could use right now? No. That's your one car for the family?

>> Well, there's a car with my lean on it and then the short payment and the truck. So we have two vehicles, but both of them and one has a lean and one's a loan for a car. >> Right, but if you got rid of the truck and you took it down from $36,000 to $10,000 and you were a one-car family for a bit, that would be you could do that. Okay.

Yes. >> Do you both feel that? He feels that, too? Yes. Okay.

Yeah, so I mean, this is going to be a uh this will be a journey, Britney, but and it's going to create a lot of sacrifice for you guys. Meaning like that, like that kind of thing, right? You're taking from 36 to 10.

Mhm. Right? And and that's a sacrifice, but for 1 year, 2 years, until maybe we save up some cash on the side and buy a crappy $5,000 car for him. Like that that's what it's going to be, you know? So, like there >> Yeah. there has there has to be something drastic that changes from a lifestyle perspective and income perspective, and it's going to cause you guys to be really really uncomfortable.

Um and it's going to be hard. It's going to be really hard, but it's doable.

That's the wild thing is that you guys may look up and be like, "Okay, he can actually Yeah, work work longer and pick up some more routes and bring in an extra two grand a month, and then Britney on the weekends you're working somewhere, you know, bringing in two two grand a month, and that's an extra four grand. Just You know what I'm saying? Like it's these these opportunities, but it costs time, it costs energy.

You guys are going to be really tired, but it's not your whole lives. It is going to be for a season of your life.

Um probably two to three years.

But then you you look on the other end of this, George, and it's like, "Okay, we did it." But the only way out is that. Yeah. That's the hard thing. I wish there was an easy button.

>> we you tried those easy buttons and they were shortcuts into more debt. And so now we got to do it the hard way, which is make more, spend less, use the margin to knock out the next smallest debt and the next smallest debt. So, no, I don't The lien doesn't need to go to the top of the debt snowball. You just need to put these all in the debt snowball and attack the little one with a vengeance, Yeah. >> and cut your lifestyle down to nothing.

And the good thing is too, you know, like once that credit card cuz I'm sure the interest rate is 25, 28% who knows.

You know, once that's paid off, you know, the the interest and the payment, right? Is freed up. So that's a that's a couple, you know, hopefully 100 bucks, right? That you keep throwing at the other debt.

And so you'll start to get some momentum, but it's going to be a it's going to be a a trip around the sun, George, for >> It's a stark reminder. It's so easy to go into debt in America today. At every corner you can rob the 401k, get the personal loan, max out the credit card, get a lien against your car, even if it's paid off. And then it's so hard to get out.

>> Take a take a little bit of a income, you know, setback and you just fill it in with the credit card and you just keep on moving. I mean, you see how it happens, right? >> is even when you make more, it doesn't necessarily mean that you're going to save more No. >> or have more cuz your your lifestyle creeps up with it.

>> find that a third of people making six figures is even get edging up to about half now, are paycheck to paycheck.

Yeah. They're feeling it. Here's a good example. You guys are making great money, well above the average household income in America, and there's not much to show for it because of all these debt payments. So that would give me some anger and urgency to get out of this once and for all.

For your family, for those kids, for your future. You guys are worth that. So find whatever income you can, cut whatever expenses you can, and get on the same page and get on a plan to go never again.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day comes from Deuteronomy 8:18.

Remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your ancestors as it

is today.

Zig Ziglar said, "Rich people have small TVs and big libraries, and poor people

have small libraries and big TVs." Sick

burn from Zig. All right.

>> What you value. >> [laughter] >> The Do you remember Well, and he and he was a you know, big in the '80s and '90s.

We're all big Do you remember those big The old school TVs? The old school big TVs. >> box. I don't even know how you got it into your house. They look like they were 2,000 lbs. >> I know. Oh man, too good.

All right, let's head to Noah in Springfield, Missouri. Hi Noah, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you all for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

Well, I'm 19 and I'm looking at buying a house at the end of the year. And I just wanted to see what you guys would do in my situation. Well, nice. Why are you wanting to buy?

Well, I'm thinking $200,000 is the max that I can buy.

I have 34 and 1/2 grand saved up.

I'll make another 8 grand. That's base pay minus my monthly expenses by the end of November.

The big bulk of my money is I'm CDs.

They don't expire until the end of November. I got credit score of 741.

Um Okay, what kind of consumer debt do you have, Noah?

None. Zero debt, amazing. What are you

making a year? Or you said 8K a month is what you're bringing home. You said that's that's how much you can add to the down payment fund?

Yeah, so so I'll make that I'll make another 8K in 5-6 months. What do you make a month? What's your after-tax income monthly?

Um 21 or 2200.

That's how much you make per month?

Yes. So you're making like 24 a year take home?

No, it's 41 grand a year.

Okay. So you're talking I'm just confused on the math.

Okay. I would budget for You're paid bi-monthly, so 1,100 a paycheck base pay. And that's two times two times a month?

Yes. Okay, so that is 2,200 a month.

Yeah, did you get a big tax refund?

No.

Well, here's our housing parameter, Noah, just so you understand. We recommend the mortgage payment be no more than a quarter of your after-tax monthly income on a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage. So I just crunched the numbers here for you on our mortgage calculator.

A $200,000 home with 42,000 down on a 15-year fixed, you're looking at about $1,700 out of your 2,200.

Okay. So, that is you're going to be

poor. You're going to have $200 left over to basically fund everything else in your life. So, you're not ready to buy a home, and I don't think you're in desperate need of a home. Are you living with family right now or renting?

I'm not really with family right now.

Okay. I would work on your income.

That's going to be your greatest wealth-building tool. It's going to give you the ability to buy a home one day and afford the mortgage payment. But, right now, you should be focused on how can I make more in my career?

Okay. >> Yeah, because that monthly that monthly payment's going to be kind of your make or break, Noah, just on what you really can afford. And if you keep saving up a big down payment, that'll be great cuz hopefully you'll continue to get raises, you know, over the next few years. And I wouldn't And I wouldn't rush into the housing market.

When you're ready to buy a home, that's going to be a great time, but it may be in another 3 to 4 years, and that's okay. And you can rent in the meantime, um or, you know, >> Okay. where you are. But, I And when these CDs expire, I would take them out of CDs, and I would put them in a high-yield savings account.

Our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union is a great That That's a great place to open an account. You can get a free checking account, and they have a great high-yield savings option, too. And so, I would put my money in there versus a CD. And And yeah, and just keep piling money cuz you do want a fully funded emergency fund as well on top of your down payment, so some of that 34,000 can be set aside as an emergency fund.

And just continue.

and where you are financially is amazing. Like, the fact you have no debt, the fact you have $34,000 saved, and you have a goal that you're working towards for this home. Like, all of this is so great. And so, I would say I just I wouldn't be as urgent as maybe you are and give yourself a little bit of time to get that income up.

Okay, so just rent in the meantime?

Yeah, just rent or keep living with family. I mean, you're 19. I would just focus on what can I do to grow this career, grow this income so I can speed up this process. But you're on the right path. Well done.

All right, let's go to Nathan in Rochester, New York. Hi Nathan, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you for having me. Absolutely, how can we help?

So, uh about 9 months ago I bought a truck for about $29,000.

I sat down recently with the everything again. I still owe $29,000 on it and

been making my payments every month and I need help trying to figure out how to get out of this situation. What's the interest rate?

Uh 14%. Well, that'll do it. Ouch. The

interest payment you're making is probably as much as your monthly payment, so they're just washing each other out. Mhm. How much can you sell it for, Nathan?

Uh I just got it quoted for 17.5.

Why is it so low? Did you roll over negative equity?

No, I did not. >> Was it for a trade-in or a personal sale? And where'd you get it quoted?

Uh it was at a local dealership. I was looking I was just trying to figure out what I could get it for. They evaluated it 17.5. Yeah.

>> Who's they? The dealership? Um yeah, the dealership, yes. Well, it's the worst place to get it valued. I would look at the private party value on Kelley Blue Book. >> Mhm. Cuz there's no way a $29,000 car 9

months later is worth 17 grand.

>> No, it should be more like 22-ish, probably. >> Now, obviously you got screwed on this deal, so they may have sold you a $17,000 car for 29 grand for all I know.

I'm especially charging you 14% interest. Was your credit just shot?

No, uh I don't remember exactly what it was, but it was around the high 780s.

How did you get a 14% in I mean, I just don't understand that.

Yeah, I um I I don't I don't know but like everything >> No, I do not. It's that so I when I bought the the truck, I was at my job I was making 28 dollars an hour and then at the end of beginning of this year my whole company got let go and I've taken a almost seven dollar pay cut at my current job. What are you making now?

I make around 2162 an hour. Okay, so

about 44,000 a year probably. Correct. Correct.

>> Okay. Well, this this truck needs to go and so you might need to save up the amount you're underwater on just to get rid of it and that would still be worth it and you go get you a beater car to get you from A to B in the meantime until you can save up and buy something used in cash.

But there's no other way to get out of the payments.

That plus all like the the insurance cuz I'm 21 my insurance is around 300 dollars a month. Yeah, that's expensive for a young guy. A lot of risk for the insurance companies.

Yep and with all with the gas and everything at the end of every month I'm scrunching pennies to try and make it.

>> credit score is still good, I'd go down to your local credit union and see if they can give you a loan for the difference you're underwater on but still try to get top dollar for it.

>> And yeah. What's your payment right now?

I'm paying 586 a month.

Ouch, plus the 300 in interest. So you're going to be And it's not even doing a dent to the loan. That just hurts. Cuz well, you're probably paying 586 in interest. So, every month it's just it's not moving the needle on the balance. And so, that's that's the issue. >> at the I looked at the loan. It's I think it was like $11.14 a day on interest. Ouch.

Yeah, and Nathan, remember this rule of thumb, too, that your what you have in

motors and wheels should be no more than half of your annual take-home pay. And you >> [music] >> exceeded that getting a $30,000 truck while making $45,000 a year. So, keep

those vehicles below that so that you don't get [music] stuck in the situation again. Thanks for the call.

Thanks to everyone in the booth. George, thanks for a great show. And thank you,

America. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's [music] to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 160. Stop Trying To Borrow Your Way Into Freedom | September 26, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Cooper is in Dallas or Fort Worth, Texas. Hey Cooper, how are you?

>> Hey Dave, how are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so I had a question. Uh, we've been getting into commercial landscaping and

contracting, you know, construction kind of stuff. >> Good. >> Um, and I've just had this question. Um,

we don't like debt at all. Like we're totally, we just found your stuff recently. We're tracking with you on no debt, but I've been wondering about if I'm going to be spending hundreds of thousands in material, does it make sense to get some kind of card that gives me cash back, like 2% cash back or

something like that, or is that not a good idea?

>> Okay. So, what's your gross revenue on your company?

>> Um, this year it could be over over a

million, a little bit maybe.

>> What will be your profit on a million dollars?

Uh somewhere around 25%.

>> So $250,000 >> something like that. >> Yeah. Good for you. Way to go, man.

Proud of you. >> Thanks. Yeah. Lord. >> So what what I want you to do is to concentrate on that business because that business actually makes money.

The business you called me about. If you spend $100,000 and you get 2% back,

that's $2,000.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. It's irrelevant when you're running a business that's making a quarter of a million a year. >> You should be working on the quart million dollar business, not the credit card business.

>> You're taking your eye off the ball.

>> Don't take your eye off the ball.

>> Yeah. >> People get distracted. You're trying to make the bank money instead of yourself.

>> Right. >> You don't beat Visa.

You stay away from them.

You can beat your competitor and you can take care of your customer. But my point is, while you're using up this space in your brain, this your brain is so powerful it made $250,000

last year and you're wasting this powerful brain on $2,000.

>> Yeah. Dupty, don't do it.

>> Yeah. And Cooper, I I always wonder because at Ramsay, I know it's a shock, Cooper, but we don't have credit cards inside the company. We use cash and we used to even bring literally envelopes of cash like if we were on the road traveling for events and stuff. So we in

our company, you know, obviously it is so cashbased and I do wonder the psychology of a consumer or not a business, but the consumer shows studies show you do end up spending more with a credit card because there's an emotional detachment to your money. It's just that that is what it is. And I wonder in the business it's going to that principle would roll over into a business side where you may not even realize it, but you're thinking, "Oh, yeah. Well, we can just >> I'll buy I'll buy that extra.

I'm getting a load of stuff, but I'm going to go ahead and buy this extra >> because I'm getting 2% back." >> Because I'm getting 2% back. It could happen. >> I don't I don't have any data to prove it. >> Hopefully spend, you know, to get like 10 grand back.

I was doing some of the numbers of what we had. >> You don't get 10 grand back. >> Well, that's a truck.

Yeah. >> Yeah. No, I I really I would spend my time and my brain power doing what you're doing instead of trying to trick Visa and win against them. Um 100% of

the time they have a plan to win.

And if you think you're beating them, you know, I'll give you another example. Uh guys out there, because this always comes up, Rachel, I get airline miles.

That is so humorous.

78% of the airline miles are never redeemed.

Wow. That makes your little theory useless. That's eight out of 10 airline

miles do not ever see the light of day.

And if you did want to actually redeem your airline miles, you have to burn so many of your brain calories and Jupiter has to be aligned with Mars in the age of Aquarius. and you happen to get the perfect person on the phone to actually show up. >> They've made it they have made it easier. So So to that point, it used to be more I think like that 100%. But the but south I mean they some of them yes have protection >> easier than impossible but not easy. I

can call and book an airline. Boom. Just like that. >> Well, you don't call you do it online. You do it on the app and you just change the number. But the point is though, that's the thing is that if the airline ticket, if you need a free airline ticket via your credit card points, if

if you can't go on a vacation because of an airline ticket, you shouldn't be going on vacation. So, the idea that you're, you know, living this system in order to do something, if you couldn't afford to do it in the first place, you don't need to be doing it overall. So, >> but I'm I'm It's always humorous to me because I've never interviewed a millionaire that said, "Dave, you know, the way we got here was airline miles.

That's how it happened. That airline miles that was our financial breakthrough. >> Yeah. And >> and that's just horse crap.

>> Well, it's >> I mean, it's just bull. >> I know. And I think in an overarching mindset to so many people we've talked to who have said, you know, we played the credit card game and then we chose not to. We're done.

Is there is a level of peace when you just live in the present, right? You go and last night shopped online and you pay for it and you're done. Like it's it's done. Like when you live in the present, there's not something out in the future that you're looking for.

And so there is a true from a mathematical standpoint an advantage there and an emotional where you're like, I'm not at all even thinking about a bill because it's done. It's it's over.

>> Seriously. >> Yeah. There's a there's a power. >> There's a piece to that. You're right.

But there's also a that brain power can be used to make you way more money than than you would have gotten a free biscuit with. I mean, it's just it's the the numbers are ludicrously low and the

percentage of people that actually cash it in is almost zero. It's the biggest screw job and yet everybody walks around acts like they're sophisticated. >> Well, and not to mention the fees and I just saw it's um like a platinum card or something has upped their annual fees.

The the amount of money you have to even spend to have the card. You have to consider that too. You remember?

>> I know. I was trying to think it was a plat. It may have been a platinum. It was something cuz it had to do with a lounge in an airport cuz it was a whole article and then these people were joking about the lounge cuz the lounge was kind of a joke.

Some lounges I think are nice but this one was like a it's like Ritz crackers and cheese, you know, and they were like, "Oh my gosh, I'm spending this much to keep a credit card to get me in a crappy lounge when I do like the whole thing. It's just silly. It's like this.

fee to get $4 >> upping those annual fees." I mean, >> this one says MX just upped it from $6.99 to 8.95 year. MX up there. Maybe that's what I saw. >> The MX Platinum card was $6.99 and now it's $8.95 yearly. >> Well, MX is just double dumb. But yeah, so yeah, $8.95 $895 to get to for the

opportunity to be your customer and spend my money. Let you good god.

>> Or you can go to Fairwinds and they're the nicest people, you know, the credit union. You deal with them and you're good. And you're good. So it is it's it's a game. people continue to try to find. >> Yeah, you can get the debt is normal be weird debit card. >> I know. We just got We just got ours uh two days ago. Winston and I did and I went on talk about an easy process. Uh

Fairwinds, thank you. Their app I went on and activated the card. You call, you do your pen and you're good to go. >> Completely free.

>> Yes. >> Not $8.95 >> and Yeah. >> for a Platinum Titanium double backflip card. Yeah.

This is just a regular old debit card and it just won't let you spend money unless you have it and stuff like that. Wow. Way to go. Fair wins.

I do like that we have a Ramsey debit card. This says, "Debt is normal. Be weird." Every time you pull it out of your pocket, you have to look at that and go, "Debt is normal. Be weird.

Debt is normal. Be weird." It's like this reinforcing message.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music] Big celebration all around Ramsey today.

1100 of us are jumping up and down excited. Why? Because it's official. The

allnew Every Dollar is live, Rachel.

>> Yep. It's here. It's something that we've been working on as a team for a while.

place to apply those principles in a thing called a budget and that's always been the case if you do the budget and you do the Ramsey plan and use that to make to implement your budget you always will get out of debt build wealth uh be in a place to be generous it always works and uh this is the first time

we've ever had it all woven in to a

digital thing together. And so it's the

best way to do the Ramsey plan while doing your budget is the new Every Dollar app. So we have, like Rachel said, we spent an a bazillion dollars and man-hour and brain calories in this place getting this thing ready. And it's live. We're really excited. The baby is here. So watch the premiere now on our YouTube channel and see what it's all about. You can hear from everyday people who are using Every Dollar. They're finding thousands of dollars in margin.

Think about what you could do with thousands of dollars to get out of debt so that you could build wealth. It's pretty cool. If you do one thing for yourself today, let this be it. Watch the premiere of the new allnew Every

Dollar. It's here. And uh Rachel's prominently featured in that along with Jade and George and so forth. This could be the thing that changes everything for you because this is the one-two punch that for 30 something years we've been doing at Ramsey.

the Ramsay plan, the details of this. Boom. And then >> and it's an app on your phone, which >> And now now it's now you can hold it in your hand and do the whole thing. >> Your phone goes everywhere with you, which means your financial plan does too, which is great.

>> Yeah, it's pretty stinking incredible. Yeah, it's you're exactly right. It's convenient. Oh, and by the way, those of you that have been wise enough to combine everything with your spouse, boom, it's all right there in both of your hands, you know what the other one's doing.

Everybody knows what everybody's doing. We're on the same page. We're pulling together.

Boom. Boom. It's so powerful, you guys.

So, check it out. The allnew Every Dollar is live. Watch the premiere of the allnew Every Dollar. It's right there on YouTube on our YouTube channel and you can find thousands of dollars of margin. Andrew is in Washington. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Oh, better than I deserve. How you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Um, I just recently found out about you guys and um, I love your program and I'm trying to work it with Gazelle Intensity. Um, so we me and my wife

recently bought a house. Um, but it's

about 40% of our income. I'm trying to

build my emergency fund right now. We just got all of our credit cards paid off and the car paid off.

>> Um, >> good for you guys. >> I Thank you. Um, yeah, it's exciting.

It's exciting to actually have cash again. Um, so I guess my question is

after we saved the emergency fund, um, because this mortgage is so much of our income, would it benefit me more and we got a 30-year loan, um, to try and pay this off early so that we have more to put towards the 401k or just go to 15% into the 401k and

uh, the the mortgage will take as long as it takes?

I've seen just hardly anyone prosper

when their house payment's 40% of their take-home pay. So, I don't really know how to answer you other than to give you a a really hard answer, and that's sell your stupid house because it's way too big and too expensive. Unless your income is going to go up dramatically in the next 36 months, this is going to stunt your financial growth

because you're mathematically what we what we all in the business in the financial planning world call house poor.

You feel it in the stress when you're trying to do the budget, don't you?

>> Yeah. No, definitely. >> Yeah. So, what's your household income, sir?

>> It's about 110. Um, I know what you guys do for I'm sorry. Go ahead.

>> Sorry. Um, I know exactly what hits our account more than I know the the before

taxes, but we get 8,248

every month that hits the account.

>> Okay. And, uh, what do you guys do for a living? >> So, uh, we work in organic gardening.

So, we work for a garden supply store.

Um, and we actually in order to take this job, we had to move to Washington.

And originally, um, part of the job was that I didn't have rent. We lived on site. Um, there

was a property where the business was run and we got to live in a two-bedroom house for free on that property. Um, but

then, uh, my boss sold the property last year, or well, I guess decided to sell

last year. He's just now sold. And then so we had to move, but we were having trouble finding rental property. >> So you got a payroll.

>> You moved out from out of state to take the job and then he cut your pay.

>> Yeah. Well, I mean, he gave me a 50%

raise to try and as like a housing allowance. So he gave me I was making $20 an hour. Now I make $30 an hour. Um,

so it felt like a sub substantial pay bump. What does your wife do?

>> Uh, she does marketing and customer service >> for the same company.

>> Yeah, >> cuz she makes a lot more than you then.

>> Um, not at the moment. So, >> darling, $30 an hour is not $110,000 a year.

>> So, I make I think 60 and she makes 50.

I think she makes 25 and I make 30 an hour.

That's not $110,000 a year.

>> Okay. When when we were going over the raises with the accountant,

>> that's >> Yeah. Just go multiply that times 40 hours. It doesn't It doesn't come out to 110. Um >> Well, they're bringing home close to 90 and after tax. >> No, he says 8,300.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh which is $100,000 a year and uh that's >> that's after tax >> net. Yeah, $30 $30 pre-tax, isn't it?

>> $30 is his gross. >> So, no, he's not even not even close.

So, anyway, um I don't care how you got

here as much as I care how you get out of it and you learn from how you got here. You felt like you were forced to go do something that to buy something you couldn't afford and you went and did it instead of finding an alternative.

And I unless you are going to see your way to substantial raises in a very

short period of time, I can't recommend you keep this house cuz I love you and I want what's good for you. I think you bought a house you can't afford and you're going to you're going to be st you're strapped by this house and it owns you. You don't own it and you don't have the money to get ahead. So you guys got to you need to sit down and do a little better job with your math because I think it's off and um I know it's off.

uh one of these numbers is wrong, in other words. And um then figure out, okay, you know, can what what can we do

with our careers that allow us to stay in this house by causing our income to go up pretty dramatically so that the house payment becomes a smaller percentage of our take-home pay? Mhm.

>> But if you have a 30-year mortgage and your payment is I don't even know that's barely >> choosing I mean cuz that and I don't know what you would say to this, but I'm like you're either going to choose to change careers in order to keep a house, but if you guys love what you do, then you got to lose the house. Like, you know what I mean? It's >> something's got to go. >> Yeah.

Something's got to got to >> Or if this career is I don't know your arrangement, but so far it's not been good with this employer.

far it went sideways on you. Um, but the, um, because I'm not sure $10 and Yeah, $10 probably does offset an hour.

Probably did offset the rent value of that two-bedroom house. But, um, but

then you couldn't find a rental to suit you, so you went and bought a house you couldn't afford. >> Well, it's the urgency that caused probably a poor decision cuz he said, "We couldn't find somewhere to rent." And you know, and then you kind of get desperate and then you pull the trigger on something >> and then you start saying things like there's no houses. Don't ever say that.

There's no rentals. There's no price.

You cannot live here for that. Yeah.

Yeah, you can. You just didn't like that neighborhood. Yeah. So anyway, honey, I

I'm I'm afraid you can't afford the house. But if you can't get your income up, I'm going to tell you cuz I love you to sell the house. Cuz I think that house is not worth you limping for the next decade financially.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

[Music] Philip is in North Carolina. Hey, Philip, how are you?

>> Good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Thank you so much for taking my call. This might be one of the coolest things I've ever got to do.

>> Well, me too. How can I?

>> Thank you. I had a question for you uh

on some advice on a financial decision that I'm kind of considering and I just didn't know what the best way to go about it was. Uh so I'm 21 years old. I

live with my parents still have a pretty good job and I currently drive a pretty

nice car that I absolutely love but

absolutely hate paying for. And my question is whether or not I should go ahead and sell my car and buy something

that's kind of like a little rinky dink car and get out of debt tomorrow or if I

should wait a little bit and pay it off while I still live at home. And if I did that, this would kind of delay me moving out for a little while. But of course, I get to keep the car that I really do love.

>> Really, really good analysis. Well done.

Good job. How old are you?

>> Thank you. >> I am 21. >> What do you make?

>> I make about $60,000 a year. And then I also have some side work that I do that brings in about 5,000 a year extra.

>> Okay. And what do you owe on your car?

>> I have just over $20,000 on on the loan.

>> Mhm. What kind of car is it?

>> It is a 2023 bright blue Dodge Charger.

>> Oh, that's sweet. I won't blame you.

>> I love it. Yeah, I got it right after I started working full-time. Um, I'm in marketing and sales and my car broke down two weeks a like two weeks after I started the job and so I heavily upgraded and you know like I said I kind of if I could do it back over again I'm not sure if I would do it but >> yeah I was completely irresponsible but it's an awesome car. >> Yeah.

>> Philip, have you have you >> also >> Kelly Blue Book did it all.

Yeah, the it's worth now only like 22

23,000, but I have a few offers on some private sites for about what I paid for it, >> which is >> uh about 28,000.

>> Okay. >> So, you can make Okay. So, you make money. >> Yeah. So, you could go and and then >> go buy an $8,000 car and then move out and live your life without a car payment. >> Okay. So, but I'm also not like dying to move out. Like, I don't want to do it right now. Also, that's kind of the thing is the I just kind of want like that flexibility, you know what I mean?

So, I just I could pay it off by late next year, but I don't want to I don't want to tie myself down. Another thing, you're making $65,000 a year. Where's

all your money going?

>> Uh, well, I mean, I'm saving a lot of it. >> Oh, good. How much is in savings?

>> Uh, I have just over I think in total uh

closer to about 14,000 $15,000.

>> Okay.

And the reason I'm asking this is because I had kind of thought like uh you know I'll pay it off at some point.

I I'll just play the game. But then I rediscovered your content online and I realized I don't have peace and your thing is called financial peace. So I don't I really know what to do.

>> All right. So here here's the thing. Um you've apparently just discovered it because one of the things we teach is called the baby steps and it's the process that you work through from where you are today. ready, set, go. To get out of debt so that you have your freed up income to build wealth with and in your case, have a life outside your mama's basement. Right. Right.

>> And so, um, >> uh, and build wealth and build generosity. And of course, baby step one is $1,000. Anything above that that's

not in retirement goes towards the debt.

And baby step two is pay off all your debt except your house. Working them off smallest to largest. You've probably heard us say that, hadn't you?

>> Oh, yes, definitely. So that plan would dictate that you take 13 of the 14 and put it on the 20 today. That would leave you seven. And I want you debtree in 2 months.

>> You make you make $60,000

a year and you have no overhead.

>> Quit going out every night.

>> Oh, there's that.

>> Okay. So that Okay, so you can do that, Philip. But let me throw this out here. You're 21. You've got $14,000 in

savings. You could sell this car tomorrow, go buy an $8,000 car, still have $14,000 in savings, >> go rent an apartment, live your life, you're on baby step three, then you start investing. I'm like, >> I'm I'm done with the car. You could pay it off. That 100% 100% if you choose to,

>> but also that drains all of your savings for >> a Charger. Sorry, you and Dave have like a love affair over Chargers, but I'm like, "No, go get like a great Honda Civic. Charger bromance. Leave us alone." >> I know.

And I'm like, "No, no, just go get a Honda Civic and live your best life, Philip. Don't let this car be the thing that like drains your savings." I don't know. You can. That is the baby steps.

That would not be wrong. >> Yeah, it would not be wrong. The the the rule we use on cars is can you pay them off and all your debt in under two years? >> I know.

>> Otherwise, the car has to be sold. And is the car less than half your annual income? It is.

All of it. Yes, you do. But also, so you meet all the guidelines. >> You do. You'll be fine. But also plan B, crazy plan would be sell it and you can start investing like in the next couple of months with retirement. Like you could snowball your future so fast, Phillip, and then you can save up and go buy another car. Um, I don't know. I I think the car is uh I think it's a great picture of >> where does Philip want to start his 21-year-old life and beyond.

>> If I were in your shoes, >> Dave's keeping the car >> in January. Either way, I No, I would do

either one. I don't care. I'm I'm with you. There's nothing wrong nothing wrong with your suggestion. >> Completely I don't disagree with your suggestion at all. It's a it's it's 100% okay. It's also 100% okay. But by January, you need to be in your own apartment and be debtree.

>> If you're not willing to do that, you need to sell the car.

>> Okay? >> If the only way to do that is sell the car, and it's not the only way to do that mathematically, by the way. If you do what I told you to do, you can be debtree, have the car, and be in an apartment by January. Because when you get out of the house, different gears are going to start hitting in your head and you're going to go to a different place in your uh young man development

and uh you're going to you're going to start to see life different. You're going to start to make different money choices, career choices, everything. I predict that 5 years later, your income will be higher if you do that what I just told you to do.

>> Okay? >> Because you you're out there on your own and you have to buy your own milk, >> right? It just it makes a difference. It

just does. And I watched that with um our kids. Uh uh Rachel left college

straight into marriage. So she never passed back through, but her sister passed back through for a few months and then went out on her own. And I watched her change as she went out on her own.

>> I mean, it really for Yeah. It forces you to be 100% responsible for your whole life, you know? I mean, it does. It's a good thing.

>> Yeah. The lights get cut off if you don't pay the bill, you know, that kind of stuff. So, I I'm going to encourage you to get out of the house, not because you got a bad situation or toxic situation, but because you it's time to grow up, move on, >> and um and I'm going to encourage you to get the car paid off one way or the other, either by selling it and doing Rachel's plan or by working another plan that is within the guidelines, but not as smart mathematically, but it's also okay. You love the car.

We've all established that.

>> 35,000, we both would be telling you to sell it because it' be more than half your annual income, okay? In value, even if

it was paid for.

>> Because folks, if you everything that has wheels and has a motor goes down in value.

And if you have more than half your annual income invested in things that are going down in value, you don't have to scratch your head and wonder why you're broke. It's in your driveway.

It's the bass boat. It's the seed. It's the car. >> The campers. >> It's the camper. It's the whatever. If it's got wheels and or a motor, it's going down in value. Period. And when

you have too much of your mathematical juice tied up in things going the wrong way, it's almost impossible to pull it off. That's what Rachel's suggestion is coming from. >> Yeah. And the fact that we get calls, I'd say nine out of 10 calls we get on cars, they owe more >> than it's worth >> than it's worth.

The fact that he can make 8,000 on it, I'm like, >> "Yeah, >> do it." Well, make 8,000 from what he owes, but not what he originally bought it for. >> Actually walks away from the table with money, which is very unusual. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a pretty sweet car. >> I'm getting I'm getting nods from the dudes in the booth. The guys in the booth are all going >> and you know what >> the booth dudes >> majority of women fill up >> they don't >> have no idea. >> Yeah, >> we got we we don't know. >> And if she did go out with you because of your car, you don't want her >> and then you got to bring her back home.

So, get out of your parents' house.

[Music]

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[Music] If you like what you hear, help us out by sharing the show. Click the share button or click cut a link out and send it to a friend or just tell them it's that we're here. We appreciate that.

Those fivestar reviews are very helpful.

Thank you for that because it moves the show in the algorithm out to the front when people are suggest getting a suggestion, you know, on their podcast or their YouTube or whatever it is.

Yeah, they get it all there. So, and we're on all the platforms. So, wherever you're listening on or watching on, just tell people we're here. Thank you for doing that. >> You can watch on YouTube and see that Dave and I are matching today. Did you see that? >> Black shirt and some buttons. I know.

>> And the guys in the booth all have on the new Every Dollar T. >> Oh, they do. >> So, they all look like they >> color matching. How great. >> Came out of a 1950s gym class with those white shirts. But yeah, white t-shirts.

Yeah. Very good. They look great.

They're they're they're they're snazzy looking. And Joe has his tucked in. So, I'm just saying I'm just saying that.

>> I appreciate that, Joe. >> There we go, Joe. All right. Susan is with us in Maryland. Hey, Susan. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thanks for taking my call. Um, I

have a question. So, I recently got engaged and I am uh trying to figure out

with my fiance how should we approach merging our finances after we get married when um I have a um pretty high

net worth and he has uh really no future

um investments but has a lump sum of cash.

Okay.

And how much is your net worth?

>> Uh about 2 million.

>> Okay. Way to go. How old are you?

>> Uh 53.

>> Okay. And um and what is his net worth, do you think?

>> Uh 250,000.

>> Oh, not bad. Okay. And how old is he?

>> Uh 55.

>> And what does he make?

>> About $6,000 a month. And what do you make?

>> Uh, I just retired, but I made almost 200,000 a year.

>> So, what are you going to do in retirement at the young age of 55?

>> Sure. I have not figured that out yet.

It is very recent that I just retired.

>> Okay. You're not married yet. How are you buying groceries?

>> Um, uh, how are we buying groceries? >> How are you buying groceries? You have money saved.

>> I mean, she has a $2 million net worth, so I was >> Oh. Oh. How am I? Um I have um money in

uh I have a pension. I have a pension coming in. >> Oh, okay. Great. Great. Right. What is

the 2 million invested in?

>> Um so the 2 million is

um my 401k is about 1.1. I have a Roth

IRA. I have money market. I have a

savings account.

Um so all that in total is um

about 1.6 and then uh the value or the

net value of my home is about 400,000.

>> Okay, cool. Um the um on a home or a

401k account when you get married, there's no nothing to do. You can't add someone to your 401k account. You could add someone to a deed, but it's probably not necessary. Um um then then what

you've got to determine is is this a large enough difference that you want to

make sure you're covered in the event of a divorce. Okay? And if you do, obviously there's two things you can do on that. One is prenup. Um and two is

and this is a pretty large difference. The only time we ever would say the word prenup is if there's a huge difference between the two. Okay? And generally it's not to protect you from each other.

It's more to protect you two from your weird relatives. When you have a prenup, you just go, "Ha, can't help you. I got a prenup." So, can't open a pizza parlor with her money. Sorry.

Sorry, crazy cousin Eddie. You know, so um and that's the kind of thing that helps. It helps a lot with that. The other thing it forces you to do is it forces you to talk through this.

Now, some states, and I do not know the law in Maryland, and I'm not a lawyer anyway, so you can't trust me on this, but some states uh would protect your 401k that you came into the marriage with, >> and would protect the real estate that you came into the marriage with >> and probably the Roth, too. >> And the Roth, the Roth is definitely protected.

if you didn't name him the beneficiary in the event of your death or if you got divorced, the 401k would be protected in most states.

I don't know the law in Maryland. You could ask somebody on that to find out and not Google a lawyer. Okay.

>> Yeah. I'm not sure that we're going to stay here. Um just because, you know, I I now that I'm not working, I don't need to stay here. He works remotely. I guess my bottom question is >> what am I missing? >> He's he's got he's got a lump sum

>> that he's not doing anything with. It's 250,000. He's got a lump sum >> um and no debt. But I guess my question

is should we when we merge everything,

should that lump sum be invested and we're kind of just living on our

uh mod pension and his salary. Uh yes.

>> Okay. I just don't know what to do. We don't >> And you sell your house if you leave Maryland and you take that money to buy the house in the next place.

>> Yeah. So, we have our own individual houses, but when we get married, we'll merge and we'll move to a different state. Cost of living will be less.

>> Um, >> yeah, I think if you if you sold both houses and use the equity from both houses to buy the next house, >> then you've got to think about that as well. But, um, >> paying cash.

>> Yeah. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah.

Your house is paid for, right?

>> No, I have 400,000 uh left over on a

$700,000. >> Oh, I thought it was a $400,000 house.

Oh, okay. Cool. That's >> You have 300 equity. And how much equity does he have?

>> Uh uh he just sold his house. So he

that's where he walked away with the um >> Oh, the 250 was that. >> Okay. So you have you Yeah. So you have 550 to buy a house in the new state and that probably'll do. >> Yeah. Susan, does it worry you at all that he's in his 50s and has no money saved? The only money he has to his name was from his house.

>> Yeah, absolutely. That's a great question. I was worried. Um I didn't know about that at first. Um but after

we started getting serious um it made total sense to me he had his own business and he just kept on believing in it and pouring money into it and he liquidated his retirement

um to keep the business going and then finally just >> gave up. He gave up.

>> So there were some mistakes that he's aware of of why he's in the position he's in. >> Okay. Then it feels like it feels like >> it was postco.

>> Yeah. It feels like you're fairly new to Ramsey. So, let me give you two principles that are in conflict with each other in this discussion that we be believe in both of. Okay. Uh principle number one is where I told you earlier.

Uh I used to tell people never if you if you like your money more than the person just don't get married. If you got to have a prenup, you don't need to be married because you like your money more than you like them. A and then over the years the decades of doing what I do not only here on the air but sitting in person I found that where there's a huge differential between well like 2 million versus 250 there's a huge differential then it does help the relationship in many cases and it does help uh the the crazy cousin Eddies that are out there in the in the family tree somewhere uh to have a prenup and so that that's principle number one and that's standard teaching from this microphone that you would have heard over the last decade to two decades.

Okay.

succeed vastly in the quality of their marriage and succeed vastly in their

wealth building capability. We've got t tons of data on this to prove it. And so

encouraging the two of you to combine your pension, his income to create your future together, 100% have to do that.

Okay? And 100% whatever money your 2

million makes, if it comes into the checking account, we're going to combine it and we're going to live our life with it. Whatever money he makes from whatever, we're going to combine it. And if we're going to both throw in about two or three hundred grand on this house, we're just going to call the house our house and that's it. uh the new house in the new place >> then you know so really work to be unified and combined

>> but if you wanted to protect a few individual items like these 401ks and stuff prior to marriage then the prenup

would be in order and it's not in conflict with that but it feels like it is and and I probably would do that in your [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the Rachel Cruz show, and my daughter is my co-host today. Joe is in Colorado. Hi, Joe. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm so honored to speak with you guys. You guys are amazing. >> Well, thank you. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Um, okay. We're My husband and I have been married three years. We're a little overwhelmed. Um, we worked the

first two years to pay down $135,000 of debt. um on his student loans. We don't have any other debt. Uh but we still have 235 and it's growing um because we

have not been able to pay anything in the last year. We're actually paying for some attorney fees for my um daughter.

Uh her bio dad is um now in the picture

after eight years. It's a long story, but um basically we've been doing that for the last year. Um, I want to get on the same page with my husband and I feel like he feels I know he feels very guilty about um how he hadn't been

paying it. Um he's a recovering alcoholic and um you know he's on the right page now. Both of us are. And um we're just we're expecting a baby.

We're going to move. We're just really overwhelmed. We have no furniture. We've been renting from family.

Um so >> and Joe, y'all got a lot going on. We do have a lot going on. >> So, your current husband is a recovering alcoholic, >> correct? >> And how long has he been?

How long has he been sober? >> He's been sober eight years. >> Way to go. >> Good.

>> And the biod was from eight years ago, right? >> Correct. I was not married. >> Making sure I got my because I sometimes I get confused.

Okay. >> And what's the degree in because it's like a 300 y enough. Yeah. Who's the lawyer?

We He's not actually making as much as he could be. I think um as soon as we are able to move, he'll be able to make more. This um location is just

completely untenable. Like they um he's only making 100,000 and I know he could be making a lot more um elsewhere.

>> And what do you do?

>> I'm a graphic designer. So uh and I actually make almost as much as he does, but I've been in this job for a long time. >> Okay. Right. And what uh so you're thinking about moving to a more metropolitan area to further his career?

>> Yes. Yes. >> And when would you be doing that?

>> Um the baby's due in December. We're thinking February or March if he can get his bar transferred to another state.

>> That sounds pretty good. Okay.

>> Yeah, it does sound pretty good. Especially because cost of living will be a lot better.

>> Yeah. And the income will go way up, >> right? >> Yeah. What would he be expected to make, Joe? 200 250? I don't know. He since um

you know he he really has only been working the last four years in um >> Yeah, I know. But if you're talking about moving in February, he needs to be on the job hunt.

>> Yes. And he is he's got to transfer his bar. >> I know. But I mean, so he ought to have a clue what he's going to be making.

>> Well, that's true. I um I think he just wants to get through the first step first of getting that transferred and then start >> I don't want to do all of this and make 105. So, I need to know.

>> I agree. So, I need to know.

>> So, >> we don't need to worry about transferring the bar if I'm going to make 105.

>> Well, that's true. I mean, >> so would be half, right?

>> Okay. >> I think you're making assumptions here that we need to ask the question. What can a lawyer make in that city >> doing the type of law that he's been practicing that he can get a job doing?

Can he make 150 or 250? And we need to know that. That's a key part of this story. Okay. But if you're going to come out of there making, you know, 150 to 250 somewhere in there and you make this move, that all sounds wise. It sounds like your job is portable, so you can take it with you to the city, right? >> Yes. >> Okay. Yes. >> So, very cool. I like all that.

>> Okay. >> So, then then we got a baby and we got a big old pile of student loans and we've been we've hit a hiccup by a an anemic

career, his, and we had a hiccup by

paying lawyer fees, oddly enough, to beat back the biod. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. So, that's both of those things are behind us starting in February.

Ready, set, go. Am I missing something?

>> I sure hope so. We We might have more attorney fees. This is not It's an ongoing battle. Um >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We We don't have even basic things like um you know, furniture to eat on, sit on. Um >> Yeah, but that should stop. You make $250,000, you ought to go buy some furniture.

>> Okay. when you make the move. I mean, you don't need to map Don't buy until you move, but when you move in February, you you >> have a budget. Yeah. Look through >> you ought to be able to handle these attorney's fees and eat and put some basic furniture in. Now, you don't need to spend $200,000 with a decorator doing this house up or something, but but yeah, go rent you a place and buy a dad gum couch >> and um then all you know, cuz then you

you can start to take some of these things that are on your plate off your plate. And if we're if we're down to

>> fighting Bodad and Sally May, now we've defined our fight and we've narrowed our scope.

>> Okay, that that makes great sense. And so you would pause the uh student loans until maybe we're out there.

>> Yeah, for sure. You got a baby on the way and you don't have >> Yeah, payment on payments, >> but don't put extra on it.

>> Yeah, I wouldn't worry about I wouldn't worry about working your total money makeover baby steps right now. to push pause, but I would be on a tight budget and pile cash up to make this move. We make the move, buy a couch, settle in, have the baby, life is good, everybody's home and safe. All the medical bills from the delivery, if there are any out of pocket, are covered. All this is done. Boom. Now we're set, ready, set, go. And we have two goals. Beat Bodad

and Sally May.

>> Okay, that that makes great sense. And um I I think the other part of my question, if you have time, um my my

husband feels so guilty about his student loans. I of course feel guilty about the whole biod situation. I know that we can rally and and fight this together. >> Did you know the student loans were there when you got married?

>> Yes, I did. Yeah. Well, then why would you feel guilty?

>> You signed up for the trip, >> right? I know I tell him this, but I think he I think he also brings that up whenever I bring up budgeting or money and it always ends in a fight. And I don't know that that's his default per se, but it you know he kind of clams up.

>> What's the fight about?

>> Just that I want to have a budget and I'm probably too aggressive and frugal and he's more we haven't spent any money in the last three years, but we're just

um I think it's usually that he just

doesn't want to talk about it. It's not something he likes to talk about.

>> Yeah. Well, that needs to change. That's part of him growing up here. Part part of his sobriety part of his continued sobriety is good to face the demons and knock them out.

>> Yep. >> That's like grown man stuff. Grown girl stuff. >> How would how could So, I don't know how I can't be Dave because I'm me. What

would you suggest I say or how how should I approach it?

Look, we both brought things into this marriage and our vows and we both knew about them and our vows said in sickness and in health uh for better or for worse. >> And we've had the we pretty much got some of the worst covered. So now we get to lean in on the better, >> right?

>> You know, we got some of the we got some of the worst in the rearview mirror pretty early. So now we can lean in on the better. And the better is let's tear these student loans up and let's beat the crap out of metaphorically uh biodat. >> Yeah. And it's not who he is, right?

From an identity standpoint, I think it's so much >> like our net worth becomes our self-worth and it's like his self-worth.

He feels so crappy with his decisions, >> but there the two are separate, right?

You make stupid decisions with money. It's not who you are. It's just what you've done. >> I filed bankruptcy. >> And he should and and and to tap into that part of him and his sobriety and the plan that he worked, I'm sure, through AA and different things like like getting to that level of identity of who I am that I'm not my addiction.

I'm not my debt. That's not who I am.

But now I need a plan to get out of it to actually see hope on the other side, which is what you're trying to do with the budget and all of it. So, >> I think I think you keep talking about it and pushing >> and the encouragement. Yeah. And if um >> and if you need to sit down with a counselor to get some common lingo, there's nothing no shame in that. Jump in, call the people at Better Help or something and get some help.

[Music]

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>> All right. Today's question comes from Dennis in Florida. During a recent show,

you told parents that their children are not morally or ethically obligated to take care of the parents. How do you reconcile that with 1 Timothy 5'8?

Anyone who does not provide for their relatives and especially for the for their own household has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. as a Christian, shouldn't we teach financial responsibility from a stewardship of with love and compassion in that perspective? >> Okay. A question that is not a question,

but that is actually a statement is called passive aggressive, but I'll answer it anyway. Okay. So, um you're

trying to teach me the Bible. I appreciate that. Um the um so to start

with it says your own household and your relatives. Okay. Your own household is not your parents.

Your household is the children that live under your roof and your spouse. That's your household. Your parents are not your household. Okay? So, who does not provide for their relatives? Now, we would never suggest that you not provide for your relatives food or some basic

care uh as long as there is reasonable

behavior involved. But the same writer

as first Timothy, which is Paul, also

said, "Those that don't work shouldn't eat." And Jesus said, "If you're faithful with the little things, you'll be given more

to manage." And Proverbs says, "The diligent prosper and and and and and so scripture when it comes to this issue, this type of issue is full of

cause and effect. If you sow sparingly,

you will reap sparingly." So if you plant three grains of corn, please don't expect a bumper crop.

Okay? In other words, our actions have consequences. So, in what condition would you need to take care of your parents? It would be if they had not

done the things that the Bible teaches them to do with money and so they have none.

That would be the condition. Okay. So, for instance, there is no moral or ethical obligation for Rachel to take care Rachel and Muslin to take care of Dave and Sharon. nor will there be a mathematical need for her to take care of us. And by the way, there's not a moral athlete or there's not a mathematical need for me to take care of her and Winston either because they've done a great job with their own life and have been responsible with the cause and effect world that the Bible outlines and that we all live in.

So it is not compassion to say that cart

blanch you should always take care of

your parents. That's not compassion at all. Now uh so I disagree that is not a

compassion perspective. Love or compassion either one. Love has mixed in

it truth and the truth is you should save for retirement so that your children don't have to take care of you. The truth is you should live on less than you make.

The truth is you should get up and go to work.

Work. Yeah. These are all truthful

things. Now, if I've got an 80year-old lady that calls in here or a guy calls in here and his 80-year-old mom has zero money because they didn't do a good job with their money and dad has died and she's trying to live on social security and he says, "I want to give her a few thousand a month and I've got $2 million to make sure she's got food." I never tell them not to do that. I've never in the history of the show told him not to do that. That is an act of compassion, an act of love and I would do that myself in that situation.

idea that cart blanch across the board the bib that the Bible teaches we're supposed to take we're supposed to feed our parents in retirement regardless of how contrary and lazy and slothful and

druginduced they've been uh is is not a

biblical teaching Dennis. So um that that's just not what

the Bible is talking about here. Uh so yeah we do and by the way we do teach first thing you do with money is you take care of your household.

We teach that and if you've ever read the book I wrote that was a bestseller called the legacy journey. The first thing we teach is to take care of your own household. >> Not Mastercard not the student like you feed and make sure your household has food shelter utilities. Yes. Exactly.

And and so that all all of that lines up with this particular >> and Dennis and and and honestly too I think some of the I mean we get a great situation like what you just outlined of like you got 2 million bucks, your mom, you know, has nothing, the dad is and yes, you have the ability to take care of her. But the also the truth is 40% of Americans can't even cover a $400 emergency in cash. So the real truth is most people can't even take care of their own household, let alone someone else's.

And then they feel this horrible obligation of, "Oh my gosh, everyone around me for some reason I have to be the hero in everyone's story when you can barely take care of your own household." So getting your own household in order is priority.

you're able then financially not to sink your ship in order to help someone else.

Absolutely. And we talk about that all the time. Generosity is we tell you to freaking give at the top of everything like you know. So like there is >> that level of generosity but you have to be wise about it and in these relational situations. And I think some people feel um yeah like they have to and they can't even take care of their >> A lady called Delon yesterday and her 80-year-old mom the kitchen was uh her

kitchen was messed up. The 80-year-old mom >> and the lady said I need to borrow $10,000 to buy my mom a kitchen cuz the

lady was broke. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> And and no, you can't do that. Can't do

that. Well, you're not compassionate.

Yes, I am compassionate. We have to figure out some other way. And I came up with some other ways to fix the lady's kitchen. Okay? But um but this idea that that if you live your life on the basis

of the way this guy is interpreting this scripture, it means that you don't have to plan for the future because your kids will take care of you because the Bible demands it. And that is false.

The Bible does not demand that. That's what I'm saying. When you say cart blanch, I don't have to save for retirement. My kids will take care of me. Have you heard people say that? I've heard people say that. That is not a biblical statement and that's the way this is reading out in this email.

>> Yeah. >> So, no. Sorry, Jennis. Wrong answer.

>> Um, wrong question, whatever it was that you did here. >> It's a great It's a good qu I mean, it's a fair >> It's a good discussion to have because there's always this angst between I want

to care for the people I love.

>> Yes. >> And how far do I go giving a drunk a drink? >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, how Okay.

you know, they're they they demand to stay in an $800,000 house that's paid

for. Uh but they have they're trying to live on social security and they can't buy food.

So is is it Christian love to support

that ridiculous? No. You sell the $800,000 house, you buy a $400,000 condo, and you buy some groceries.

That's what you'd do if your kids weren't there to prop you up. And in that case, I would say you're not morally or ethically obligated to take care of your parents in the middle of their stupidity. No, they're making dumb decisions, and I'm not going to support that. And the Bible does not call for you to do that. God does not call for you to do that. But it does call for us to be kind in the process, to be gentle

>> and to be generous people when you, you know what I mean? When when you have the >> when I can. But real generosity changes

the situation. It doesn't put a mask

over the problem.

>> Yes. Bad behavior. It's not a band-aid.

That's not the point of generosity. >> That is not real generosity. That is fake generosity. That's shaming. And so,

but I and Dennis, the reason I'm kind of leaning in on this, I think this is what you were saying, but I may be giving you too much flack here. I'll give you I I'll back off a little. >> It does say today's question. So, he had to make it in the form of a question.

So, >> no, our our statement says today's question. Yeah. But uh no, he he's making a statement. But the uh but the thing I don't want people to buy off on is this idea that >> you do not have to be responsible because your children will take care of you.

That's not correct. Okay? And that is

not compassion. And that is not love by anyone involved in the conversation.

Real love would say, "No, you have to be responsible." Real love would say, "I choose to be responsible so that I'm not a burden >> on my kiddos." That's real love and real

compassion and real maturity instead of a a copout. And so, yeah, that that's why we say that, Dennis. Hope that helps you.

[Music]

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[Music]

Tom is with us in New York. Hey Tom, how are you?

>> Good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I've got a question. Um, my wife and I, we just bought a house in March and we owe like 440 on the mortgage and we

don't have any other debt besides that, but we have a brokerage account that we have some money in. She wants to use probably half of the majority of it on a bathroom in the basement that's finished. I would rather either put it

towards the mortgage principal or look into refinancing or recasting the mortgage. We don't know which one's the best route to go.

>> What's wrong with the mortgage? Why would you re rates have dropped since then to be get a better deal?

>> We we're at 7% right now.

>> Okay. And so you could get 57. So you can save 1.3 you save 1.3 if you want on a 15year right now.

>> Okay. >> Okay. On 440. Okay. And how much is in the brokerage account?

uh about 85. >> And why did you not put that down on the house in the first place?

>> Um it was kind of like a timing issue.

We sold our old house and we used equity in there as a down payment um to get the

20%. So we avoided the PMI um and we

just threw that in the brokerage account.

>> So it wasn't a timing issue. It was a decision to not put it all down on the house. Instead put it in the brokerage account. >> Yeah, I guess so. >> Yeah. Okay.

Um,

>> her reasoning for the ba the the bathroom in the basement is we have a a a young child year and a half and one on the way and as they get older um you

know the plan is to have them kind of be down there. Um but >> well Tom that'll be in like four to five years.

>> What's your what's your household income?

>> Um about 260.

>> Okay. How much would the bathroom rena cost?

>> I'm going to estimate like 50 grand.

>> Okay. >> It's a nice bathroom.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Uh but that's your you've not really actually gotten a bid, right?

>> We haven't we haven't like got any like any contractors or anything to give us actual quotes yet. Um just from what we've looked at and do >> you have an emergency fund in addition to the brokerage account?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Um,

all right. Well, if you had um th this

would not be a question if you'd have put it all down on the house >> because then if you had done that, you'd have a lesser mortgage. And then the only question would be whether it makes sense from an interest rate perspective to refinance your mortgage. And you'd say, "Oh, we don't have any money. So, if we want to do a bathroom, we have to save up money out of our $260,000 income.

>> Right. So, I'm trying to back into that and go, okay, what does that tell me about where I should go now? >> Yeah. I mean, I throw the I throw the 85 Tom at the house. You guys cash flow the bathroom. And again, you're you guys have you're going to have a newborn. I mean, I just know this from experience. I have a 10, eight, and sixyear-old. So I'm like I mean for the first I mean you don't really leave them alone playing by themselves until like you know 4ish down

in a basement you know what I mean where they can play and they're going to be okay and they can get I mean so you guys are a few you know 2 years or so out of

even needing that bathroom down there because the kids quote unquote need it.

Do you know what I'm saying? I'm like it's not urgent to me. >> So yeah out of 260 you ought to be able to pay for the bathroom in one year.

>> Slow it. I would do it in one year. But yeah, I would I would give yourself a beat. Um, and I kind of do hate too there's a level of like the contentment side, Tom, >> of you guys just bought this house.

You're in a brand new house since April and it's been what, six months, and you guys are already like, okay, what else can we do? What else? I don't know. A part of me is like just be just be for a year. Y'all are okay. You know, there's no there's no urgency in it.

>> Actually, both things could sit for a year. Neither one would because 1.3 savings on your interest rate is good, but it's not huge.

Um so um >> you think rates are going to come down further too? That's another question.

>> Yeah, probably.

>> I think I it seems >> I predict that >> seems to be indicating that all the pressure is that way uh with the Fed direction and everything else. So probably u but you know you you understand that um uh weather forecasters and econom economist economists are the only ones that can be wrong most of the time and still keep their job. So, uh, we don't know is the bottom line, but yeah. So, um,

I, uh, okay, what would I do?

All right. Number one, I think that she

doesn't think she's ever going to get a bathroom if we don't use this method because you all are probably not on a good, detailed, written budget, and she can't see how $260,000 leads to a $50,000 bathroom. I can see that. But the way you all are handling money is not signaling her that she that's gonna happen. >> So, I think you're gonna have to get a detailed written plan that the two of you together say, "All right, we're going to save $4,000 a month and in 11 months we'll

have the money. 12 months we'll have and in the meantime, we're going to get actual bids from contractors and figure out what we're going to do. We're going to pick everything out and as soon as we have the money saved over the next 12 months or so. Um, and we have the budget and we have everything dialed in a detail about what we're going to do, what we're not going to do.

We're in agreement on all of that. By then, we'll have the money saved and together we're going to accomplish that by not eating out as much and maybe not doing that trip and doing a few other things. And then I'm am going to take the 85 and I'm going to refinance the mortgage, reduce the mortgage balance by $85,000 and um get get a lower interest rate, get in touch with Church Hill Mortgage and >> and all that next year. You're saying wait a little bit?

>> No, I'd go and do it now. >> You would do it all now. >> I'd refinance the mortgage now. >> You would you wouldn't wait to see if >> No, I mean, if you want to wait two months or something, that's fine.

But I'm not going to wait a long time because they should have put down the 85 in the first place. >> Yeah. >> And so I'm going to undo that. And if I had done that in the first place, what would be the way I do the bath the way I just described?

would have told you to do if you'd have called and asked us in the first place.

We would have said put the whole amount down and do the bathroom later or buy a different house that you don't need a bathroom down there.

>> Would have told you one of those two things if if we had got if we'd have been involved in the conversation early.

And so all I can do is go back to the last time that we were standing on solid ground and go from there forward. And that's that's the way I'm analyzing this. And that's how Sharon and I would make the decision. And um Sharon would be perfectly fine. Uh and and Sharon

loves to do upgrades like decorating upgrades are like her love language.

Okay. So if that is an actual spiritual love language, but yeah, if there is one, she's got it. And so, uh, but and

she doesn't mind if we tap the brakes on that, um, as long as I'm not over here spending the same amount of money on something else, >> right, >> that she doesn't agree with. And she, no, wait a minute. You chose that over me. No, we're not doing that.

But on the other hand, um, if we if we were in this case and we said, "Okay, we're going to buckle down the budget. We're going to save up the money. We're going to do the bathroom." We've done that bazillion times in the Ramsey household, >> and she would not be complaining about that. But if she didn't see how we were going to get there, >> it's a great point.

>> Then she would have a problem. >> Yeah.

>> Um, and I mean, you guys know this, Tom, I'm sure, but those renovations can swing dollar amounts so far depending on

>> scope creep. >> Yes. Depending on materials you pick, finishes, all of it. So, just be aware.

>> Bathroom becomes a sun room. And if it's the bathroom where two kids are going to be, don't make it nice. I'll just say that much.

Bathroom off of our playroom.

>> Nasty. >> Nasty. >> Nasty. >> We clean it, but it's >> it's hazmat. >> Cuz they'll be learning to Yeah.

>> They'll potty train in that bathroom, Tom. So, just >> hazmat. >> Just uh >> for sure hazmat. Yeah. >> Especially if you got boys. >> Did I say hazmat? >> Is cra it's crazy. You know, this could be a different podcast, but I'm like, I don't get that. >> Should be. >> How did How did that happen, Charles?

>> How did that I don't >> How did that get there? >> How did that happen, y'all? Can we We got We got like 30 seconds. I probably shouldn't tell it. >> No, no. Okay. Okay.

>> Don't tell it. Poor >> Anyways, it's telling >> this stuff This stuff gets >> He peed in a candle on our porch last weekend and I was like, "Charles, what are you doing?" He's like putting out the couch. He said, "I don't know. It kind of looked fun." And I was like, "Gross, >> gross." So, anyways, that's that's potty training for you, boys.

>> I don't get it.

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Or if you're watching, of course, on YouTube or podcast, just click the link in the show notes. Chris is in Washington DC. Hey, Chris.

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, well, I I'm in a bit bit of a unique

situation. I'll be retiring at the end of the month at the age of 50 from the federal law enforcement retirement system. I am getting a second job, so I'll be working a job and collecting uh my pension from that. >> Wow. >> I have Yeah, I have 1.4 million in my

TSP. >> Wow. >> And yeah, um started uh wise advice when

I first got on the job. Put as much money into it as I possibly could.

though. Um it's grown quite a bit. Uh so, uh based on the uh rules within the

federal retirement system, I can withdraw on that penalty-free upon retirement with so we're thinking myself and my wife about withdrawing $300,000 from it

to purchase a lake property, which we've been interested in doing, you know, for a while now. Uh we would then cash flow the development over it of it over maybe the next 5 years and maybe eventually build a house uh at the end of that five years, but um we probably sell the one we're in to do that or or make another decision uh finish paying off this mortgage before we decided to build a second house. I just was wondering um if

it's a good position. It's just a lot of money, right? And I know I'm going to have to pay tax on it. Um so just wondering what your thoughts on that were.

You have other money other than the million. What's your home worth?

>> Uh, my home is worth about 950,000.

>> And you owe how much on it?

>> 270.

>> You got them, Chris, with the lake property. >> I'm just I'm just Well, I'm just thinking the problem is this. The the downside is that the uh

the the upside is you've done a or the positive is you've done an incredible job saving money and you're in a very very good position. You're a millionaire and you retired at 55 years old. Way to go. I'm proud of you. Absolute rockstar.

Very cool. Now then I start to think about, okay, if I'm going to buy a second property with 30 more than 30% because I got to

pull more than that out to pay the taxes. um unless you could cash flow the taxes. But if I'm gonna pull 30% of my nest egg out to buy a second home for

enjoyment, but what's bothering me is I don't get the enjoyment because there's not a house. It's just dirt and it's going to be developed and the house is not going to appear for another five or six years in what you outlined.

>> True. >> So, I'm not getting anything except some dirt right now. If I got a lakehouse and I got enjoyment today, you found a little lake cabin for 300 grand and you did it, it would feel different to me because you could actually go do it. But this is like um you've done such a good job delaying pleasure to get to a right result. Now you're doing it again.

>> There's no but you're you know we we can only kick pleasure down the road so far.

We need to we need to eventually have it. Um and gosh, that's the only thing that's bothering me about it. Was there something specific about this one property, Chris, and like this a specific lake, a specific area of the

lake? Was there, I don't know, ties to it or you just saw it and thought, "Oh, this would be a good spot." >> No, we've been thinking for a while. So, definitely the specific lake and we've of course seen uh prices go up exponentially and my concern would be they continue to go up over the next 5 years. They will um instead of getting there. Yeah, >> they will the um uh the or they'll go

down dramatically cuz let me I own a lakehouse and um we and the the worst

category of real estate and the best category of real estate for uh price is

resort property. So beach, mountain, lake, uh those are the ones that go through the roof when times are good, faster than single family regular houses do. and they go through the floor as soon as things turn sour.

And so they they follow the luxury jet market. And so um it's um way up or way

down. It's very volatile. Uh and so I mean there's been years that my lakehouse was kind of sad and then there's been years it was one of the biggest things I owned, you know, because it just shot. People were crazy all of a sudden and but and it comes and goes in waves. It's very emotional buying public for that. Um

the overall answer is I probably would do it. Uh the only thing is is there

acreage involved? Like you're going to sell off lots? You said development.

>> I mean it's lakefront. It's in a you

know it's an undeveloped lot on the lake. >> What does develop mean? I mean how big a lot is it? >> Clear it. Two acres. >> Oh, you just got to clear it. So it's not really you just got you got to get it ready to build on is all.

>> Yeah. But you could do that in you don't have to do that over three years. You could do that in 10 minutes.

>> Well, probably a dozer and a chainsaw dock in, you know, I'd probably put put the money towards a dock before I built the house, but >> Okay. >> Yeah, I would do that. Yeah, >> but I'm going to continue to contribute to another um 401k in my postretirement

job as well until I fully retire.

>> Yeah. So, what will your household income be with the new job, the old pension, and your wife?

uh 350,000.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

Okay. So, >> you could build it back up pretty quick, right? If you took the 300 out, you could >> And you don't move to the lake until you all just quit, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, >> that's what you meant about selling your house. >> Correct. Yeah. Um

>> Yeah, I think I think you do. I like I'm catching up. It took me a minute, but yeah, we let's clear it, put the dock on it, and but let's move towards building sooner rather than later.

>> We'll like that plan. >> Even if you don't move down there, even if you just go there for two weeks in the summer or 3 weeks in the summer, plus weekends and that kind of stuff.

And um yeah, sooner rather than later.

Um so, but yeah, I I I think the numbers

are going to work out fabulously for you. And you guys have been so responsible in the other areas that it leads me to believe this is all going to work out. Probably you're I think you're being conservative on how fast you're going to be able to do this >> cuz you guys you're just really y'all done an excellent excellent job.

>> Yeah. >> That's um so um federal government

employee, ladies and gentlemen, 55 years

old, retired full >> 50 he said even what >> I think he said 50. >> Oh 50 50 years old. That's right. fully retired with over a million dollar in TSP, the thrift savings plan. Okay.

Starting from nothing and has a $900,000

house that's only got 200,000 owed on it. So, he's got a million half net worth, meaning 700,000 net worth at 50

years old. Okay, that's a classic model

of a baby steps millionaire. That's the classic model. Now, somewhere in there, too, I've got to get this other house paid for. Got to get that mortgage paid off. This other thing is scratching my head in the back of this. So there we go. But yeah, it's good. That's living like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

>> But at no point do you get to live and give like no one else without using wisdom. So to his >> credit he's asking for wisdom on how to best do this.

um because within because you can take out what is it within your 401k this is >> not the growth no I know I know but you can without penalty of what you put in, not the growth of it. >> No, only if it's Roth. >> The Roth Roth IRA you can Okay. TSP.

Is there anything that you can take out without without penalty? So, the whole thing will be >> there's no penalty on this. It's only tax. >> It'll only be taxes >> because if he if TSP is thrift savings plans for federal government employees only >> and once you reach retirement age >> if they retire like he's probably got in his 20 years.

>> Yes. >> Or his 30 years or whatever. When you retire, you no longer work there.

>> Okay. >> And you can take it out, but it's unique only to that. It doesn't apply to 401k.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author. My daughter is my co-host.

Alexander is with us in Idaho. Hi, Alexander. How are you?

>> Um, better than I deserve.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> I'm just trying to figure out if uh how much of a step back it would be to my life if I were to purchase a 2025 Harley-Davidson Loader Rider S. Uh

30,000. >> Thank you. You actually know what that one is? >> Yeah. What's it What's the What's the tag on that? What's the price on that?

>> Uh you know, MSRP is about 24, but I'm going to put some upgrades on it. Pipe and uh kitty grips and all that good stuff. Probably about $30,000 out the door. >> Yeah. So, what do you make?

>> Um right now I'm making uh about $65,000

a year. >> And then uh my wife makes about 15. Uh

she works about 10 hours a week. I assume you each have a car.

>> Yes. Uh I have a truck and she has a she has a you know a crossover.

>> Yeah. >> What kind of debt do you guys have?

>> Uh currently no debt. We are actually on baby step six.

>> Um and 35 with two little kids. There

there's a there's a couple kickers about about that though. Uh I guess the first one would be that uh right now we're spending more than we make. Um because

uh you know >> how would you pay for the Harley?

>> Oh um just just extra money. So about about

two years ago uh we were gifted about $200,000 from uh Sarah's grandmother when she passed away or my wife passed away.

>> No debt. But they're living above. How are you living above your mean? You're spending more than you make.

>> Wow. Uh we we saved a lot of money uh prior to having children >> and we are only going to >> pulling out of savings every month too.

>> Pulling out of savings every month.

Roughly about $1,000 a month.

>> Why? >> Um and >> why can you not live on $85,000?

>> Um you know tithing and 15% for

retirement and um >> and restaurants and restaurants and travel and vacations and restaurants.

We're not doing a whole lot of that. >> Yeah, you are. You're doing something because that tithing does not cause you to not be able to make your budget.

>> That sounded real holy, but I'm not buying it. >> Yeah, our mortgage is about $1,400 a month. >> That's not That's not killing you.

>> Okay. Well, anyway, um so here's the

thing. I >> But >> love almost anything that has a motor in it. >> Sure. which is kind of why I don't like Teslas because I like I like almost anything that has a motor in it and so that bike is very cool.

>> My Tesla will be his bike and your car in a race. I'll just say that. Go ahead.

>> And uh Oh, yeah. Well, that's not a

anyway. The uh it's a very cool bike. Uh and I So I what I'm trying to say is I completely understand why your adrenaline is up when you think about it. Um, and I can get that way about a myriad of different things with motors in them. >> Um, everything from a skid steer to a skiboat, right? So, um, I I get it. Uh,

but I will also tell you that as a young man with two children and hasn't figured out a way to live on $85,000 a year to invest $30,000 in a motorcycle that's going to be worth 15,000 new $15,000 and

about a eye blink uh is not a good

investment. you're not in a position to afford this.

>> But I I guess um a little a little bit more with our finances. I mean, we owe about 250 on the house. Um house is worth about $450. Uh we have a little over $210,000 combined in a work retirement accounts. And right now we got about $150,000 in a separate mutual fund with about $80,000 in an emergency fund. >> You have too much in an emergency fund and you should pay off your mortgage.

You're sitting on 200,000 worth of inheritance, $150,000 in a mutual fund, $80,000. That's enough to pay off your mortgage. Why do you still have a mortgage?

>> Um, I think that's kind of one one thing my wife and I, I guess, disagree on. I'm kind of on the on the plane of uh mortgaging, you know, paying off the mortgage, but then when when we first received the money and she was kind of along the lines of uh you know, just to be safe um to put it put it in mutual.

>> There's nothing safer than a paid off mortgage.

>> Sure. >> It's much safer than a stock market investment.

>> I know, but if I guess I guess devil's advocate here, cuz uh >> Okay. I I don't I don't think we're going to be able to help you, honey. Um, no. I would not buy the motorcycle.

You're too broke to do it and you can't learn. You haven't learned to live on less than you make. No, I would not do it. Holly is with us. Holly's in North Carolina. Hey, Holly. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

I'm calling because I have a situation with my eldest daughter um where she

made an agreement with my husband and myself along with her two sisters to pay her student loans after graduation that we took out for them. Uh they are parent

loans. Um but the agreement was uh that

they would pay them when they graduated just as we had paid for our education.

Um, my husband and I are both nurses and we put ourselves through school. Um, and

they disagreed with how the money would be spent for college. We wanted them to stay home and commute possibly to save money, but they really wanted to go away and we said, "The debt is on you." We did help them through college with other expenses um along the way. It wasn't like we just abandoned them and we continue to provide for um my younger daughters um here and there. My oldest daughter now is refusing to um pay her loans uh

and do good on her agreement with us. It

was a verbal agreement. Her sisters are

paying their loans. They know that it's their responsibility, but my oldest is refusing to pay her loans. And >> what is she saying? >> Um she's saying that it it she doesn't

care that it's our problem and she has cut off communication with us. Um, so we

have been told that we have no recourse.

>> You do not have any recourse.

>> Right. Um, my >> You borrowed the money. She didn't borrow the money. >> Right. Right. I know. And I've accepted that. >> My It's upsetting though because it's almost um a moral issue.

>> Yeah, it is. You shouldn't have done this to your daughter.

>> Um, >> you put her in debt to you.

>> I Yeah. No. >> And you called it a blessing and acted like you did something righteous.

>> No, not really. >> No. I mean, this is a it was a really, really, really bad idea.

>> It was a bad idea >> and it's cost you guys a relationship.

>> The relationship part. So, that's heartbreaking. >> But what you're discovering is is that these thing that math is not independent of relationships. That the borrower is slave to the lender. And she didn't like being your slave anymore.

>> Well, she wanted to go to college and it was the only way to pay for it. No, no, no, it wasn't. No, it she wanted to go to a certain college and it was the only way to pay for it. And you endorsed her doing something you didn't believe in by borrowing the money in your name.

>> I think you misunderstand me. Um, >> you said she could go to a community college and pay for it, and she chose to go to a fancy college and borrow the money in your name.

>> It wasn't really a fancy college. Um, it actually was a seven-year medical school program that is the cheapest probably in the country to get into and she got into it and it she was very fortunate to do that. >> Um, >> if I were in your shoes, I would call her up and say, "Honey, I made a mistake. I shouldn't have done this." I call up your other two daughters and say, "Honey, I made a mistake.

I shouldn't have done this." We're going to pay all these loans. They're in our name. We hope you children have a great life, and we'll never make the mistake of borrowing money for someone else ever again.

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So, we have a uh very popular and

award-winning documentary that is now free to watch on YouTube that we did a couple of years ago called Borrowed Future. We spent a lot of time delving

into the student loan epic failure that

is in America today. now$1.8 trillion

dollars worth of student loan debt.

Where does that come from? Whose fault is that? Well, it's Congress's fault for starting the program. It's Congress's fault for not stopping the program once it was considered an abject failure, and they still have not stopped it. Um, number one. Number two,

we tried to get to the mathematical source of why people keep going into student loans, why it was normalized to take out a student loan. You can blame that on higher education because they've run the cost up through the roof. The the inflation rate of higher education is about 3x the normal inflation rate,

but they're building lazy rivers for college freshmen to really are. A couple of compasses h have this now. They can ride an inner tube through the lazy river under the dorm. I mean, it's unfreaking believable what they're spending money on. And then they're charging it back to your children in the

form of ridiculous tuition and

ridiculous housing costs. So, it's higher education's fault. It's Congress's fault. Um, it's the 18-year-old's fault because no one ever told this 18-year-old no ever in their whole freaking life for anything. And so, they expect to go do anything they want to do wherever they want to do it. So, there's, you know, it's their fault.

And then Rachel Cruz comes in and goes, you know, at the core of it though is a parenting problem.

It's not a student loan problem. the parenting problem. And the reason you said that >> well was well because in my head I'm like, you know, they're 18, so yes, you are a legal adult and you're signing up for something. It's your signature on it. But also, you're 18 and the adults

in your life should be the ones stepping in and guiding and giving you wisdom that's actually going to help you and not hurt you. And so, yeah, I mean, for parents to just sit back is negligence to me. I'm like, you know, step into your kids' lives and talk to them about the repercussions of this because we get calls all day of six figure student loan debt. Um, and it's not working in people's favor.

And the and the truth is too, there's still other options. You know, you can go to community college. In a lot of states now, there's free community college, you know, a lot of places. And so, you can go go get your associates degree and then transfer to a university if you want to get the bachelors, you know, for the last two years, but save.

And instead, it's kind of this like, well, it's so expensive. no one can afford it. So just go wherever you want to go. And that's that's the message out there. So >> I remember the first time I got that call and I just I realized that as that

your mother and I are dinosaur parents.

We're from a whole different world than some people. A guy called me from Michigan. He said, "My son told me he is

going to this college that we can't afford." And I thought to myself, you know, that's different because when when it comes to my money, the 18-year-old doesn't tell me anything. I tell them

things, but they don't tell me stuff.

That that was my first reaction is the parents are wusses. They're enabling wusses instead of actually having a backbone and going how about no is a complete sentence, you know? No. And like integrity, I meant it. You know, no. and and then we can explain why maybe if I have to but so but like you

know um >> probably good parenting. Yes. >> So I mean here like like here's an example. Okay. One of our children which won't be named almost left the family because that child decided they were going to apply for colleges other than the University of Tennessee. Uh and so they got accepted into a SEC school.

Mississippi >> no Auburn. >> Was it a Auburn? Okay. Auburn. Almost as bad. And so, uh, another SEC school, but

it's slightly across the state lines, like 50 miles. And at that time, it was

triple the tuition. >> It was double >> for apparently about the same degree.

So, you're going to pay double >> because you want to go across the state line 50 miles for basically the same degree and basically about the same level of football. I mean, it's really it's you're gonna pay double for apparently nothing. And so the discussion was no.

>> Well, >> or you got to figure out a way to pay for it. And then that person couldn't figure out a way to pay for it. And so she decided to graduate from the University of Tennessee where her parents were willing to pay for instate tuition. Go Voss. >> Go Vals. Okay. So, >> and now I'm an alum. It's great.

>> And now you're now you're famous. >> No, I I was going to go to UT. It was a little bit of a >> Yeah, but it's a little bit of a flex there. A little bit of flex by the middle child, but Yeah. But the uh so I mean we have these discussions in our house right so but here's the thing

the the if if your child comes in and says I want to go to a school that we cannot afford and you say I don't think you should you don't go take out a parent plus loan

and pay for with your signature a

decision that you think is unwise and unhealthy for them and then be shocked

eight years later that everybody in the whole story is pissed at you.

You caused this because you endorsed this stupidity and that's the problem you get into. So, um

there's zero chance that any of you should ever take a parent plus loan. And there's zero chance that you should give a child who's going to take out student loan debt a dime of your money of any

kind and zero support. If you leave home

and go to a college on a student loan, you you should tell your kid, you are 100% food and everything on your own because you are stepping outside of my wisdom. I

am telling you the best thing you can do is go to a school that we together can pull our money and pay cash for. And you need to study and get a degree that actually has use, not left-handed puppetry.

And so you're going to study something and you're actually going to go to class and pass the class and together you're going to take a job and you're going to get we're going to go to instate tuition. We're going to go to a school we have the money to pay for and that we

are in agreement on what is good for you. It does not affect me personally where my kid goes to school.

It does I mean what degree they get. It doesn't affect me personally. And so any guidance I force upon them or persuade

upon them is an act of love.

So this idea that you're going to borrow money in your name on a parent plus loan

to cause your kid to go to a school that you don't think they ought to be going to. There's so many dumb things in that

sentence. >> Yeah. And not to keep extending the point, but the last caller, which I was a little shocked that I mean you were you were you were you laid down the law with her. Do you is there any moral though obligation of the daughter at all that they shook hands and had a deal?

>> Absolutely. She promised you she called us. We told her to pay it.

>> Cuz she said she'd pay it. She should keep her word. >> Yeah. >> And you know, you can't claim victim.

You were there at the party. >> Right. Right. >> Yeah. And so if you promised your parents you would pay the parent plus loan, you should do it. But as a parent, yeah, you set up a 100% guarantee that

there was going to be a relationship problem because they are strained because you got involved and caused them to make a bad decision. >> Yeah. >> By allowing it with a you borrowing the money to do that and then expecting them to pay for the mistake that you knew they were making and you financed their

mistake. Of of course they're going to be resentful of that later. There's a 100% chance they're going to be resentful of that later. >> Well, and what sucks is you're 18 and again your frontal cortex like isn't even formed. You know what I mean? I'm like you're a kid. You're like you're 18. You're you're a child, you know? And

that's what's hard. Yeah. is they're making these massive financial decisions as a teenager and you're like, "Oh my gosh, >> you can't buy a gun and you can't buy a beer, but you can borrow 150 grand,

>> borrow a mortgage of >> I mean, it's just it's so freaking stupid. >> It's just stupid.

It's all it is. It's the only thing you can call it. And so to participate in that system as parents is not an act of love.

Instead, you go, "Hey, you're going to a school we can all pay cash for and study something we can all agree on is good for you.

And if we can't agree on all that, you're going to make 100% of the decisions on your own." You can't keep an 18-year-old from leaving home and going $150,000 in student loan debt. But you can say, "I'm not giving you any emotional or financial support for your stupidity cuz I love you and I'm not going to endorse you bringing harm to yourself." You can have the backbone as a parent to say that instead of going, "Well, they're making unwise choices and I think I'll finance it." That of course they're going to be resentful later. Of course.

don't be shocked that they are [Music]

[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtfree stage, Brad and Amanda are with us. Hey guys, how are you?

Hi Dave. Hey Rachel.

>> How are you guys? >> Good to have you. Where do you guys live? >> Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. >> Oh, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville and all the way here to do a debtfree scream. How much have you paid off?

>> $130,000.

>> I love it. And how long did that take you? >> 20 months. >> Good for you guys. And your range of income during that two years?

>> 170,000 down to 120.

>> Okay, cool. What do you all do for a living? >> I work in construction >> and I'm a nurse. Okay, cool. So, why the 50 drop? That's interesting.

>> We had a baby. >> Oh, >> so I'm mainly a stay at home mom now.

Congratulations. >> Okay. So, you've kind of gone to part-time or no time. >> PRN. Yes. >> I love it. Good for you. >> How's the baby? >> He's almost 10 months. >> 10 months. Okay. Right in the middle of this journey. 10 months. >> Yep. The majority of it. Yep.

>> What kind of debt was the 130,000?

>> Most of it was student loans. We also had a heliloc personal loan and a little bit of everything else sprinkled in there. We were very normal. >> Ah. How long y'all been married?

>> Almost. >> Almost five years. >> Okay. So, just long enough to get in a big mess.

>> Okay. So, what happened 20 months ago?

What was the wakeup call? Uh the inspiration, the uh what was it that's jogged you into this?

>> This started out like every success story. I was doom scrolling on Instagram and I saw a about a 10-second clip of your show and it was very dramafilled and I had to know the ending. So the next morning I looked up the episode and what started out as just curiosity ended up eight hours of your show.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Yes. Eight hours straight. >> Binged. >> Yes. And I had never heard anybody talk about money the way that you guys do.

And I was amazed. And whenever he came home from work I was like, "Have you ever heard of Dave Ramsey?" >> And he said, >> "Uh, yeah, I had heard of you before this um but didn't really understand

your principles or didn't really implement any of them." All right. I'm I'm unbelievably curious. What was the show? What was the drama that hooked you? >> It was a woman who had called in and she was in a very bad situation with her partner. There were kids involved. There was It sounded like financial abuse and potentially some other abuse. And you were walking through it with her until you realized you're in danger now.

>> And then I remember it was me and Rachel. >> Yep. And then it like cut off and I was like, I have to know what happened. Give me the give me the rest of the story.

>> Yes. Oh my gosh, that's crazy. And then you went watched Yeah. eight episodes.

Yeah. And then poor Brad comes in the door and you're like, >> and I bombarded him. >> Yeah, I bet you did. >> Well, your eyes are red. You've been watching eight hours of YouTube.

>> She's like, listen, listen. >> I literally was like, we're going to pay off all the debt. We're going to go do a debtree scream and I'm going to get a debtree shirt.

>> Okay. >> And he's like, I'm not going back to work again.

>> Brad, what did you think when she kind of had this whole new plan of how to do money? Well, that's very much like Amanda to do that. And I was like, "Okay." Um, you know, and I'm uh one

that like I react slowly, so I was like thinking about it. I was like, "Well, we could definitely do that." You know?

>> Yes. Yes. Okay. So, what was the first step you guys did as a couple?

Did you sit down and do a budget? Did you map out your debt? Like, what was the first step? Because there's going to be some people maybe watching this clip, you know, on on social media and see it, but what would you tell them?

Uh, I think it really started with just like uh adding all of the debt together and it's like, "Oh, >> yeah. We didn't realize it." Yes.

>> It's 130,000." >> Mhm. >> Lots of little stuff. >> Yep. Just added up. And >> it was a, you know, light bulb movement.

>> It's It's an old crap moment. Yeah. Oh my Yeah. We really do have to do this now. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And so then what happened?

Uh well, we knew that we wanted to start a family and uh this was like a a large

step in uh just getting secure before

having a child.

>> Um and definitely after getting it paid off, you are a lot more comfortable and

flexible. >> Mhm. And whenever I got pregnant, it was like we got to go full send. So I was working six or seven days a week as a nurse on the floor working two jobs up until 4 days before I had my baby. Whoa.

>> Mhm. I got cleared by my OB. I wasn't doing anything dangerous. >> Yes. But you were Yeah. But workhorse like you're like, "We're going to do this. We're going to do this." >> My co-workers thought I was crazy.

>> Yes. >> Yes. I got a lot of bad feedback, good feedback, medium feedback.

>> But now after having a baby, you realize, "Oh, yeah. All day." Before the baby, like I we have the time. We can do this because life just changes completely, right? When you when you enter in a a new little family member.

>> Um Okay. So for the 20 months, what would you say was the hardest part of that journey for you guys?

>> For me, it was not seeing each other. >> I was going to say time away from each other. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yes. >> All the work. >> We were passing ships in the night cuz I was doing >> hours upon hours upon hours upon hours.

Yeah. >> Mhm. >> And of the 20 months, nine of it you were pregnant. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Yeah. That is so hard. Okay. So now from the marriage perspective, because relationally, you know, you don't see each other. I'm like, that is that's a sacrifice for sure. Would you say your marriage is stronger today because of it and because of you guys going through this journey together than it was even you know two years ago?

>> Uh definitely because of like the communication that's involved in it and we were very transparent with finances before it. Um but this definitely just reinforced all of it. >> Yeah. >> Wow.

>> We know we can really lean on each other. So this idea that because we get the call, you hear it if you listen that, you know, I don't want the work life balance and I don't want my spouse to feel abandoned and y'all didn't. You just went, you just went to work all the time. >> And you said, we're going to communicate and communicate and communicate and work all the time and we're going to get out so that we can live like no one else so that later we can live.

And it didn't kill you. As a matter of fact, it made you stronger. >> Absolutely.

convenient. So that's so we feel very comfortable now but we had to put convenience aside. >> Oh that's good. Yes. During that process

that's a good phrase. >> Uh did anyone make fun of you? Do people think y'all were crazy? >> Absolutely. >> I got so many bad so much bad feedback at work. >> So funny because you were working so much. Was that the bad feedback or was it the paying off debt?

>> Working so much while she's pregnant >> that. And also, um, we had an eight passenger Subaru that was paid off at that time and we sold it and we got a 20-year-old van >> and on the back of it, it says Dave Ramsey makes me drive this.

>> Oh, great. Thank you. Now it's my fault.

>> Yes. And so people were like, "What are you doing? Like you're you're crazy. Why are you doing this? You're >> You joined a cult?" >> Yes. And I was like, "Yes, we did.

>> We got Xander. We got Every Dollar. We just went full send. You're all in it.

All in it. >> Yes. >> Oh my gosh, you guys. >> Now that you're free, was it worth it?

>> 100%. >> Definitely. >> I'm proud of y'all. Very proud.

>> Now you get to stay home. >> It's wonderful. >> Yes. And you get to like make these decisions without the stress of feeling like we have bills to pay. >> Oh, and all those people who thought they had a vote are still at work.

>> Oh, look at that.

>> I was just telling him, I said, "It's so weird because we don't really get any mail anymore. Like, bills don't come in the mail. It's just the newspaper." I was like, >> "When I first started this stuff 35 years ago, I met a guy. He said, "I want more mutual fund statements in my mailbox than bills." >> 100%. >> That's a good trade. I like that. Yeah.

Very cool. Good for you guys. That's awesome. You're >> so proud. All right. What do you tell people? The key to getting out of debt is >> uh putting adding friction to financial transactions. So, making it less convenient to spend the money. Um and I

really like the home-cooked meals.

>> Yeah. Give me an example of the friction you did that made it hard to spend money.

>> Well, like obviously the credit card makes it too easy to spend money. Um removing Amazon Prime and uh not

shopping on Amazon as much as you can because it's too easy to click that button and uh it's sent to your door.

>> It's amazing how much we stopped spending whenever we got rid of credit cards. I know you guys talk about it, but I don't think people realize how impactful that is. >> It's the truth. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Who knew? because you're you feel it with your money. You're thinking twice about it. >> Yes. >> And I would add to that that you have to believe that it's possible. I didn't believe it was possible until I started watching your show. And I was like, we could do this. >> Yes. Oh, you guys are amazing.

Congratulations. >> You're you're power couple, man. I'm so proud of y'all. You killed it. You're going to you're you're doing so well. You're going to be in such a great place in another couple of years and you've completely changed your family tree for your baby. I'm proud of you. Very very very well done. Brad and Amanda from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. $130,000 paid off in 20 months. Making 170. Now she's

home making 120. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1. We're >> debtree.

[Applause] Wow.

Well done. Well done. Well done. have to let the uh social media team know that

they changed a couple's life with that clip >> that they dropped >> for doom scrolling. Wow.

[Music]

[Music]

Scripture of the day is James 1:12.

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. N Gingrich said, "Perseverance is the hard work you do after you get tired of doing the hard work you already did." That's good. Hey, big news. The Fed just cut rates. We all heard about it last week. And 15-year fixed rate mortgages have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. Currently 15s are sitting at 5.71.

If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy a house or put one up for sale. Lower rates could save you thousands. It could be moving the people loose that uh turning them loose, getting them off the bench so they come buy your house. So, buying an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent.

These are pros that we handpicked because they're high octane, high protein. If you're going to list a house for sale, you're going to buy a house, you need to do it with somebody who actually sells houses, not your aunt Sally, who just got her license. I know

she makes good apple pie, but she's not a good real estate agent. She just got her license. Don't use Aunt Sally. It's

your milliondoll house. That's dumb.

Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/agents or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Trevor's in Florida. Hey Trevor, what's up? >> Hey, how you how you guys doing today?

>> Great, man. How can we help?

>> Uh, please bear with me. I'm nervous.

I'm ashamed, disgusted, embarrassed at all. Um, I'm going to go straight to the question because I I really need guidance on this. Um, should I file for

bankruptcy? Um, I made a dumb mistake

and now I regret it. Um, and I'm I'm

ashamed. So, just a little quick backstory. So, um, I purchased a house

and when I purchased the house, I kind of paid more than what I should have.

Um, then fast forward, I basically ended

up losing my job. Um, in the mix of it,

um, I bought when the interest rates and, um, and the prices were going up

and I already had paid over what the house was supposed to be. Um, so when I

went to sell it, I basically, um, couldn't sell it cuz there was a lot of brand new uh, properties going up and the the sellers were uh, giving a lot of more incentives. So there my house,

beautiful house, um was up for sale, but

nobody was really interested because I wasn't offering anything or no incentives. I couldn't compete with the with the other sellers. Um, and then I

ended up uh my realtor um kind of

convinced me to like do a sub two

contract, meaning I I keep full

financial obligation of the payment while I basically have somebody make the payment for me and once the house is paid, they uh they take basically the

house is is theirs. Um, fast forward a

year, um, well, not even a year. Um, the

person that took over the payment has not been making the payment. So, I just got served, um, on August 22nd,

um, that the house is going up for

foreclosure. So, I'm reached out to the

gentleman. I I've been trying to reach out to the gentleman because I kind of knew that he was on pain. Um, but I was

unable to. So, I drove there last week and kind of spoke to him and he has no intentions of leaving the property. Um, and I'm I'm I'm >> He has no intent of what? Say that again. >> Of leaving the property or kind of signing it back over to me to so I get um the deed. >> So, he's living there. >> So, he he's running a scam. Yeah. Okay.

>> Yeah. So basically, um, right now I I

have no means to like get another lawyer

cuz I'm going through a a custody battle, not a custody battle, a child support battle cuz mother of my kids move about 3 hours away. Um, so right now, >> what do you make a year, Trevor?

>> Um, so myself, I make 40 and my my wife

looks 40. So combined we make about 80.

>> Okay. Right. Um, you can afford a lawyer

and you need a lawyer.

That is correct. >> Yeah. Um because if you file bankruptcy, it's a lawyer and you have to pay a lawyer. >> So you might as well pay one to evict the scam artist.

>> Yeah. So and and that's what I was thinking of. But again, like my budget right now is super super tight. like I'm

paying about um $800 for the other

lawyer to get this case resolved cuz like I said I mentioned earlier >> you don't have the money to file bankruptcy if you don't have the money to hire a lawyer to throw the guy out.

>> Well, I have I have a PC that I have right now and I can probably get like $1,500 for it. Um >> you you have a what?

>> A PC it's a gaming computer.

>> Yeah. Okay. So sell it and hire a lawyer to evict the guy.

>> You don't think it's going to take too long, though? >> It might. >> It might, but we don't file bankruptcy until we've tried everything else.

>> I'm not going to roll over in Florida.

It's going to take them forever to foreclose. How far behind are you on the house >> because the guy's not paying the bill?

What? >> January. So about $40,000.

>> How many months? That's uh February March, April, May, June, July, August about eight. >> Yeah. Did So when they sent you a notice, they didn't give you a date.

They just said the house is in default and we're going to foreclose if you don't straighten this up. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. I I I already got served. The 20 days for me to respond to the court has passed by.

However, I looked I logged in today to see like the case disposition because um

he received his um the person that's living in the house right now receive he got also served and he basically had 20

days also to respond but now I guess he

was able to hire a lawyer and basically put like oh they didn't they didn't serve all the tenants that are living there correctly. Um so I guess he's

>> this guy's really good at scamming.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, and >> okay, but there's not the foreclosure date has not been set.

>> Uh, not yet. >> Yeah, it should it shouldn't be in Florida after 7 months. It'd be unusual if it was. Okay. >> So, and and it it's a little bit more backtory to it. So, I right now we we

this all happened. We moved to Puerto Rico and then we just came back. So, right now we're living with in-laws and we were trying to get an apartment. But >> what were you doing in Puerto Rico?

>> Um, just basically started a new job. um

kind of didn't work out cuz my nine-year-old's education started like drawing back and we noticed it and we just told my wife and I like made to say you know what let's go. >> All right, Trevor. Okay, here's the thing. You're not bankrupt until you're bankrupt.

You are projecting into the future that this is going to go one certain way and

um we don't know what it's going to do yet. It doesn't sound good. There's no question you've been scammed, but it's not costing you a dime today. You're not having to write checks today uh to unless you want to unless you want to catch this thing up.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, no, but again, um since we

moved back and we're we're living with my in-laws, like I really want to move

out, but I'm unable to. I got six kids, so we're all >> It's not got anything to do with bankruptcy.

>> I understand that. But >> bankruptcy doesn't get you a place to live for six kids.

>> No, I understand that. But it's just the the fact that like it's it's already hitting my credit and like even if I was to find the money.

>> You don't think bankruptcy dings your credit? >> No, it it does. >> Okay. But >> you're getting ready to drop an atom bomb on your credit, dude. It's going to be it's going to be a wasteland for seven years.

for 10 years if you file a chapter 7 and you're not bankrupt because nothing has happened yet to bankrupt you. You're just um have done a series of bad deals

and you keep jumping from one thing to another. You jumped into the house, you jumped out of the house. You jumped into Puerto Rico, you jump back. Jump, jump, jump, jump, jump, jump.

You need to find something really steady and put your hand to the plow and stay on it. And I do recommend I you you keep arguing with me, but you called and asked me what to do. And I recommend you get a lawyer and you throw this guy in the street, >> okay? >> And then you start negotiating with a mortgage company on a short sale >> with a good real estate a with a good real estate agent that knows what they're doing.

No one should have recommended you do that deal. was malpractice.

Now, it might the law might not call it that. I'm morally calling it malpractice. It was horrible advice to

put you into that deal. Those deals always end up this way. They never end up any other way. Cuz who else moves into a house and pays full price for it plus and pays payments for 30 years and it's not even in their name?

People who are going to scam you, that's who. So, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes, huh? That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 161. Surviving the Money Storm Starts with Tough Choices | Best-Of for March 27, 2025


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[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today from Ramsey Network it's the

Ramsey show where we help people build

wealth do work that they love and create

amazing relationships I'm Jade warshaw

next to me is the Magnificent Kenneth

Coleman wow magnificent and Kenneth in

the same sentence it's going to be a day it's going to be a good day we're taking

calls all afternoon long your life your money hit us with all the questions that

you have and we will hit you with an answer a solution a way forward or we'll

just spitball creative ideas with you whatever it takes the phone lines are

open 8825 5225 let's get involved all

right let's go straight to the phone lines we got Joe he's in Anaheim

California what's going on

Joe hey how you guys doing doing great

how are you doing good doing good uh

been watching you guys for a while and I got a quick question I'm just looking for a little bit of affirmation here okay um I have a girlfriend of about a

year and a half and uh we do live

together and she asked me actually last

night um if I could loan her money to

pay off a debt that she has on a credit

card so about

12,000 about $12,000 in debt not a

little bit myself I'm huh that's not a

little bit that's a lot well yeah yeah

oh yeah yeah not yeah not not a little

bit um but yeah she had asked me that

and um I gave her I told her I would

call you guys I I kind of know the

answer but I'll get back to you on that babe let's put it on Jaden Kenneth to

see what sure sure um okay so it's

$112,000 did you say it's for a credit

card yeah yeah for a credit card yeah

and just to clarify this is a loan So

when you say the word loan that makes me sound that makes it sound like somebody's got pay it

back got to pay it back yeah absolutely

absolutely she had got into a yeah she

had got into a little situation I guess with her uh last partner um he end up

using it uh without her uh permission

and um yeah that's how she end up being

in that situation can I ask you this how do you feel how would you feel being in a position where your girlfriend owes you $112,000 that's the thing too cuz like I

I've been looking to you guys for a while and I I remember one thing says is

you know you know dinner tastes a little different you know when you're sing across with somebody that owes you and I know I wouldn't be the one owing anyone

but like just the fact that you know

that that kind of tension would be there I wouldn't necessarily feel too comfortable with that yeah Joe how's that going to feel when she starts missing payments that she owes you

that's got to be weird hey we're going

to Red Lobster tonight how's that uh

payment plan coming along but she still got her nails done and still got her hair done oh yeah yeah Joe yeah can I J

can I Joe listen I appreciate that you

told your girlfriend you were going to call us but what was your gut reaction when she hit you with this idea my gut reaction was I'll be honest

I I was like okay like am I in a position to do so like yes like yes can

I can I help her like that yes but um I

I I just think like like just like um

like character-wise I really feel like you know you know um you know attacking debt is you know a character builder too

and I you know I definitely want us to grow in that regard I want her to take her finances serious to as well Joe Joe

Joe listen to me Joe Jade ner on team

Joe okay why don't you stop spinning and

just tell us how did you feel when she hit you with that did you want to do it yes or no I got you I got you no no there we go

there we go I'm with you Joe and there's nothing wrong with that nothing wrong with that she you know I I do have more

question just cuz I want to know and I I want the people to also get a clear picture of this you know first off we're

not big on loaning money here you know

to a friend to a family member uh

somebody loaning money to you debt in

general is just we're we're anti- debt

here so now if you called and said hey

she's asking me if I can give her this

money that might be a different conversation and you're like I have it to give and if I don't ever receive it

back it's no big deal like that might be a totally different conversation um but

the aspect of loaning it you're right it does it does put a different taste in your mouth and it's going to make the whole relationship the power shifts

right you become the the lender and she

becomes not the lender I got to ask a

question Joe cuz Jade's here and I love

getting the female perspective on this are you worried about her reaction if

you tell her cuz I think you called us

to get us to go well this guy this guy

and this gal said this

are you worried about what her reaction is going to be if you tell her

no um honest a little bit she she can be

yeah no no she can be definitely emotional you know when it comes down to

things like that emotional like crying

or emotional like I'mma hit you with this cast iron

pan maybe a sandal I don't know about

the cast iron but she'd probably do something like that I love it yeah but

um I think that's important

yeah yeah no no it definitely is I know like she's not the type to like flare up if you tell her no but I I just wanted

to um yeah I just want to get like

affirmation on that just to say like you know like hey you know I mean me being

the position I'm in is because I've listen to these you know I've listen to these people and um you know I really

want to you know I'll call like I'll call them and maybe they can give you

some more clarity too on my standpoint

are you going to marry her that's my question oh yeah that's that's definitely that's definitely the plan for sure does she know that

yeah does she know that uh I I wouldn't

say that's I mean well we've talked about it but as far as like a time frame on when we're going to get married that hasn't been all right so here's the deal so since you called us and I know where this is going you need to give her a

legit legitimate explanation as to why

we think what we think and if you agree with us so the reason that we want to

keep this separate is you two are not married now if you go down the courthouse tonight and I'm not trying to get you to do that but all of a sudden

this debt becomes your debt but right now it's her debt and and the relationship needs boundaries and this is because you believe in a healthy

relationship and and so you need to

explain to her that that is your debt not my debt and the minute that I give you money it changes our relationship and I don't want that because I'm looking long term I missed anything on

that I me I I agree exactly with Ken

there's a protection for both of you uh

legal speaking you know when you become

married and so if nothing else this is a

great time to start that conversation of

what you know the Define the relationship now is a great time to start talking about that and I think it will reassure her to say you know if the time comes and you agree that we should

be married as I believe that we should be married then I am happy to take on

your debt it would never be alone it

would be us working together and you

know I look forward to that day but unfortunately we're not there today I have a question for you Jade and and she

she this is for you Joe but it's to Jade

I overthink everything so the giant Aster here is I overanalyze everything

my brain right now is going if he says

that which you and I are on the same page does she put pressure on him to to

to to get married and does this fast forward a marriage proposal I'm a little

nervous about that I hope not uh do you

see what would you say he needs to guard

himself with I hope not if you sense

that if you sense that now all of a sudden she's trying to you know rush you

then I think that could be a bit of a red flag that's good CU that's what I W

even looking out for now let me then ask

you this question how long have you been dating cuz if you've been taking her for a ride for five years then she might

it's been a year it's been a year and a half okay I I mean in my mind now's a

good time to start talking about it if she does say well you know Joe I've been

trying to get married for the past you know six months and you're the one stalling like if she starts saying stuff like that then you have to be open to the things that she's saying as well at the end of the day if you both want to be in a married relationship makes steps towards that and then to Ken's Point

that's when things become one French we

we that's what Dave Ramsey would say

this is the Ramsey Show Rachel do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like hey you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order yes I

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check it out you guys welcome back to

the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw joins me the phone number Isle

8825 5225

8825 5225 let's go to Indianapolis

Indiana where Zachary joins us Zachary

how can we help today hi how are you guys uh we're doing

great what's going on so um I'll cut to the chase Monday I

lost my house in the house fire for at

least four months yeah oh my gosh what

you what do you mean at least for four month what was it totally uh it was it

was contained to one room thankfully but

we had a lot of stuff in that room that

the room is completely gone they have to completely got it and reconstructed I

guess okay nobody was hurt no uh the dog

was inside but oh gosh than they got him

out okay okay so pup is okay and when

you say it's only one room is that

downstairs upstairs what was in the room

uh it was our downstairs master bedroom

um oh no C we were actually supposed to

sell the house four days prior um well

four days after the fire had happened oh

my gosh but that's not happening anymore

right um so thankfully like a lot of my

stuff was packed up and ready to go but

like my wife's entire wardrobe

everything like our our our bed our

newborn son's bed and everything is oh

my gosh where were you guys when this happened

um I was an hour away at work and my wife was at work oh my gosh and you're

newborn son uh he was at uh grandparents oh my

gosh thank goodness W but the rest of the house is okay yes uh my stepdad was

driving by when it started to smoke

really bad so he caught it what happened

what caused the fire do they know um it was one of the outlets by our

bed they're not exactly sure but they think maybe a wire came loose and like touched the insulation or something or Mouse Che on it oh my that is crazy well

I'm so glad everybody's okay well a

couple of things to be grateful for

obviously you guys weren't there your wife was not there your baby son the dog

is okay my goodness and your father-in-law is driving by yeah and I love that and again grateful that it's just the room and four months from now you've got a rebuilt Master now I know all of the other things that come with that are awful but but it all things

being equal this is uh you dodged a

major major crisis yeah yeah yeah

definitely all right so how can we help today so we were planning on selling the

house because my wife bought it before

me and her were ever together and it is a nightmare of a house um Foundation

issues and everything electrical issues

yeah um um so we were really wanting to get

out of it um we were buying a new house

on um closer to my parents and it's a

lot nicer house but did you already make

the offer yeah but we are doing a

contingency by so we're probably gonna

lose that house now that we have to wait

another four months yeah um we have just

started the baby steps we've got about

$85,000 in Consumer Debt okay um we

don't have much savings especially after the fire now um and then what if you you

been doing yeah um we we just started it so we had

the emergency fund but now with the fire

and stuff we the Thousand emergency fund

or yeah yeah thousand okay so um

um here's what I think so where are you

staying right now right now we're at my

parents okay you're at your parents you've blown through most of your thousand do what do you have

left uh right now we've got I want to

say well she actually made an ex extra

car payment so we're waiting for that to

come back but we'll have about 13 in our

account but we have bills and everything

and I do a ton of driving for work so I

have to leave at least five to 600 in there for gas okay so okay is insurance

going to cover the total rebuild or is

there going to be more cash you're going to have to come yeah they're going to cover it but they are kind of dragging

their feet so right okay I think you're

a little new to the baby steps and so I

kind of want to reset and get everything on on so that you and I are at least on the same footing kind of going forward

um I hate that this happened to your house and I hate that you guys had a

plan and this just threw wrenches all up

in that plan however in one way like Ken

said you dodged several bullets here and I'm going to add another bullet to the list that I believe that you that you dodged now looking at your financial

situation fire aside now is not the time

for you guys to buy a house yeah yes I

agree I originally wanted to rent but we

live in a small town and um leaving the

town is not an option for us because of

my wife's uh work and uh that's where

our babysitting situation is located um

and they there is no places to rent that

wouldn't be the same amount as what our mortgage was going to be okay um that

has the space for uh two kids us and a

dog that allows dogs um there was one

place that was available and we applied

and we got denied because of our credit

and then um and then it went off the

market like a week later so so okay so

to address that um unless you were going

to unless by selling this house let's

pretend the fire didn't happen for a minute unless you were going to have this this huge amount of equity that was going to allow you to get into the next house and pay off you know this debt or something like that that would have been the only way it would have worked out and if you had called us prior to that I

would have said you just got to keep looking look for the right rental cuz something will come on the market that's what I would have said to you in that situation but where you're at now is

okay insurance is going to cover the rebuild of the master bedroom you know you guys are in a place that you know hopefully you're not spending a whole lot staying with family but you are going to spend some but you still got you know you're still working so the income is coming in there um we've got

to prioritize this debt and yeah that's

got to be the number one thing because technically Zachary when you go to buy a

house you want all of your debt paid off

then you want to have saved up 3 to 6 months of expenses that's not talking

about a down payment that's just you

having money you know when you move into

this house and then it's like okay I need a down payment so you guys were

quite far from being there uh when you

sold the house what was it going to bring uh we were going to get about uh

15,000 in equity and then my sister was

also going to give a gift uh for a down

payment as well help us with that okay

and when you got that gift from your sister what percentage wise was that going to be towards your next down payment um we were going to be using an

FHA loan but it was going to be roughly

12 to 15 yeah yeah I I think in many

ways this was a blessing in disguise CU I think you guys are about to get in way too deep you always want to make sure

that you're putting at least 5% down on

a house you want to make sure it's no more than 25% of your take-home pay

these are the things you want to make sure of um and going forward now is just

not the time and hopefully what I would

do what I would do for you guys if the

house that you're in is in a nightmare obviously there's electrical things that need to be fixed obviously there's other things those are things that you might have to Shell out some money to fix in the meantime because the solution and

can we see it all the time my car broke

down I'm just going to trade that in and trade up and get a new car with payments because we don't have the $2,000 to fix it so we get a $20,000 car right and the

worst I said this to Dave on Friday the worst thing is and I'm not saying that

this is you but you buy $500,000 house

but the AC breaks and you don't have $55,000 to fix it right right happens

all the time so push push pause on home buying it's

not the time yeah rebuild get your life

back on on on track get the things fixed

in the home that's going to make it a safe place for you to live and that's

right and hey let's look at the positive on this I think Jade's right and I think I'm going to give you just a little bit of a I think hopefully a little mindset

hack here you know you get a new master

bedroom hey you know in the sense of you

know did you lose some stuff yes that stinks she lost her wardrobe that's awful all those things are just awful but baby safe dog safe you're safe you

know what you had a really old master bedroom now you get a new master bedroom

and I I like Jade's pressing Paws right

here and just kind of going you know what life just threw us a curveball but

what let's hit the curve yeah you know

like I know I you know I'm I'm stuck in

this baseball metaphor but stay with me

you know curve balls are meant to strike people out come on but let me tell you something uh really good hitters know

how to hit a curve and if you hang a

curve these people put it out of the

park They smash it and I think right now

I think to the coaching you just got from coach Jade over here I think you guys can take this this curveball that life threw at you and you absolutely hit

a grand slam and come out of this thing

way better off so please listen to what

she said I I think she's absolutely right and I think you guys got a second chance not not fun not fun how you got

it but nonetheless a second chance so

there you go all right don't move she's Jade warshaw I'm Ken Coleman we're here for you this is the Ramsey show what

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Ramsey welcome back to the ramsy show

where we help you win with your money

win in your work and win with your

relationships so hey we're about ready to get back to the phones but I want to let those of you know that are uh listening via radio we're going to continue with you after this segment but for those watching on YouTube and listening via the podcast app that you

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that out so you can get the full show we got some great calls lined up for the rest of today what's Google Play Google

play uh just kidding oh listen to me

struggle I was like well it's a uh all

right Andrew is joining us now in Toronto Ohio Andrew how can we help

today hi thank you very much for taking

my call I uh I actually live in Canada

where everything is quite a long ways away I live in the northern region of Canada and I drive about 7,000 to 8,000

kilometers per month and I was wondering

should I be looking at maybe leasing an

electric vehicle or keeping my current

gas SUV

um okay the is there anything you want to add to

that you seem like you're going to say something else I'm just going to say because the amount I spend in gas each

month is roughly uh $200 less than uh a

electric car release with the um extra

kilometers for 80,000 per year so that's

why I thought I'm usually very against

leasing but I thought I don't know is

this the one time that there's an exception here I'm not not 100% sure

well I think there's two it sounds like there's two issues here one is the

affordability of your gas and if you want to lower your gas bill and the

other issue is if you choose to change

Vehicles can you afford it and you do have the cash to buy the vehicle so let's look at it kind of separately for

that purpose first off uh for your gas

SUV what are you spending now um how

many dollars are you spending a month to

fill it up and do all that about uh

$1,280 so that's the average in the past

three months I I looked at okay and you're saying that with an electric iicle you could lower that by

$200 no so the electric vehicle with um

because leases usually only go to 24,000

kilometers here in Canada so buying the

extra kilometers which is 8 cents a

kilometer uh uh totals me about

1,400 is per month for um for leasing on

a two-year lease and the reason is

because I I I'm assuming there's no residual value left in the electric car

if there is it'd be small

so the the warranty is for 160,000 kilm

and I thought well I'll probably reach that within two years so you know

releasing it over two years then here's the keys and I don't have to deal with the speculation on how consumers are

going to perceive the value of the once

it's done here's the thing I'm never going to advise you to lease a vehicle

and I'm never going to advise you to go into a car note for a vehicle for the

lease I'm not going to suggest that because it truly is the most expensive way that you could possibly operate a

vehicle even though like hey it's electric there's you know rebates that

I'm going to get all that uh when you

when you do the math on how the payment

is how they come to the conclusion of

the payment you're going to realize oh my gosh this is the most and I can go over that in a minute um what I would do

if I were you it kind of feels like you're going from one extreme to another you've got a the electric vehicle on

this end but then you've got a gas SUV on this end what if you had a gas

gasoline car that wasn't guzzling as

much gas what if you did that so I would

kind of advise you to look at your options but at the end of the day what's really going to inform this is how much

money you have do you have money to spend on a new vehicle and that's really

where my mind is so I I own my current

vehicle and uh yes I I I do uh I uh I

actually teach Corporate Finance of all things um but uh yeah I have enough to

you know if I was to go into a dealership comfortably buy a vehicle I was going to buy a lot instead but you know if I have to buy a car with it that's that's no no no issue but honestly my current vehicle is is fine

it has a lot of life left to it okay um

you know it's just more of you know the fact that you know there's a depreciation expense right and there's a

there's a a gas expense and and by the

way when you lease a car the depreciation is built into the price of

the lease like that's correct built in

so you're not getting you're not avoiding that no what what I am saying

is you know if if I I could buy the

electric car in cash except the car salesman said once they're out of warranty they're really only worth you

know maybe you know 15 or 20,000 you

know in in residual value and he gave an

example because he had one that he he recently had to buy and he said it's because consumers don't realize you can

you know maybe replace the the battery

but you know still it's kind of early and um so yeah I mean to your point to

your point we are seeing I mean we're getting more and more people calling in saying I bought an electric vehicle it's

now barely a year later and the value

has gone down substantially so there is

there are issues there I I'm not

necessarily saying that I'm in favor of you having an electric vehicle you're just saying hey this is what I want what

I'm simply saying is if you decide to do

that I would buy it outright and I would

buy it used I would not lease it so that

would be my advice to you um I mean

you're grown so you'll probably go away from here and you'll do what you choose to do but that would be my advice okay

I'm going to stick with my my gas card then the only incentive I thought was the lease payment was cheaper than the gas but you know what the way that you

but I don't understand I don't understand why not why not even maybe try to come to the states and get a used electric car that's what I'm think uh would they be under warranty

though right and how long did do those electric car batteries last in lifetime

C because I don't I don't want an electric car ever I I'm a classic car

guy in fact the older the car the better

for me uh so I'm just being honest I

don't know I'm asking you so you came at

us with a Le ,000 kilometers and then

they they they have like a you have to pay 20,000 for a new battery to be installed yeah and Andrew okay good so

so in my asking that you've given yourself another an answer as to why

it's not a good play for electric cars in general and there's another part of this with the amount that you're driving

uh and I don't know I don't have an electric vehicle I only talk to the only person I know who has one which is George and the few calls that come and

here about them uh is the charging like

there's more to the charging than meets the eye there's the time and then if you

want to do the Quick Charge that costs more you know much a battery cost for my

gas car why would you buy something

here's here's what and I'm not even Andrew I don't even know why anyone would buy an electric car based on what

you just told me because it's like once

the battery goes that's that and you have to know where you can charge it

you're driving long distances can it make that distance like how many trips can you make per charge that's the way

my brain is thinking that feels like a headache to me so yeah as they say on

shark t for that reason I'm out yeah

yeah I love that that means I'm out too

so I was leaning towards keeping the car but I the math was going the one way I'm like a let's Camp be let's call A B Ramy

show but I'm glad you guys agree you

know as a society we really don't know enough about these cars to make a is

your car are you using your car uh for

your own business or do you work for someone else and it that requires you to do all this driving my own business so

you do write that you write off all those expenses or at least every expense that you can I don't I mean on the car

so that's that's at least a positive you

know uh there's some breaks there about running that through your business but I mean that that's just that's what it is man and uh that's the nature of what

you're doing so you got to build into that you know my retained earnings on a business like that would be like car replacement f% 100% I'd have a line item

on that are you doing that

Andrew uh no I I usually include travel

uh in with my Consulting practice that I have I usually include travel and the price that I give for the the engagement

but maybe Charing better idea well

that's great but what I'm saying is is I would Jade you're with me if you're going to do that I would put all that money into a car replacement fund it is

a huge part of your business my friend I

see what you're saying like you should

be putting well let's just run this through

we got about a minute and a half I'm G to give it to the budget Guru walkie so how much how much uh money do you pay

yourself

right me right now yeah 150,000 a year

okay great and uh do you have some margin I'm guessing you have some margin

in the business after you pay

yourself uh yeah I usually keep very

little profit in the business to to minimize corpor taxes but how much money

could you put away real quick how much money could you put away a month in your business for a car replacement after paying yourself and all expenses 1,500 probably yeah do that

that's great I'm doing that today

yeah I would too I mean you've got some margin there start putting a car

replacement Fund in your corporate bank

account and and and boy that's going to be great good hour Jake great call enjoy

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budget welcome back to the ramsy show

thrilled that you're with us I'm Ken Cola Jade warshaw is with me as well

88255 225 taking your money questions

and your work related or income

questions to that end the get clear

assessment a tool that was privileged to

create few years ago it's helped

hundreds of thousands of people and uh

just wrote a new book called find the work you're wired to do came out a little earlier this year and it includes the get clear assessment so what is the assessment doe well it answers four

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all right to Susan is uh where we're going to go she is in Dallas Texas Susan

how can we help hi um I just went

through a divorce or finalized it recently it took a while um and I've

been a stayhome mom during my entire

marriage for um the past 14 years anyway

um I got what I consider a pretty good

amount of money and I'm just curious I don't really know what to do with it I let my ex husand handle every single bit

of finances I never knew how much money we had or anything um so how much are you

getting um well there's a couple

components to it I got a check for 1.1

million okay um I got a 401k for 715,000

okay and then um $15,000 per month for

the next uh s years okay how old are you

I'm 40 okay so you've got a guaranteed

income for for the next seven years

that's nice okay um okay great so tell

me your question okay so my question is I'm

completely debt free I also don't own a

home because I just got divorced okay um

so you need place to live right I'm

renting right now which is $3,600 a

month which I feel like is really expensive it is um it's also all the

bills paid so my question I guess is um I've

got like $95,000 in a high yield savings

account I started a a

Roth IRA I'm like totally I know nothing

about Finance so I've just been trying to learn just in the last month or so um

anyway my question basically is a can I

live like with can I live off of part of

this money like off of the monthly income or do I need to get a significant

job well the good news is the good news

is is you do have a monthly income for the next seven years so you've got some

time to reinvent yourself and figure out what you want to do with life and if I were you obviously you don't need $155,000 per month figure out what do I

need what's a what's a fair budget for me um maybe it's $7,000 a month and then

you take the rest and you're you invest it every single month right so okay

that's thing one you've been bought time

to figure out a career path for you and I'm going to toss it to Ken in a moment for that but let's talk about the rest

of the income that that you have so

let's say just for in just to keep it

simple let's say you invest half of what you're getting every single month for the next s years so around 7 and half

th000 or 75,000 and then you've got 1.1 million

that's a check right yes yes and I

didn't know what to do with that so I just put it in a money market account because I didn't even know how to deposit that great I I think that's a

good place to start what I want my

homework for you is I want you to start

learning about investing I want you to

start understanding okay I know husband

ex-husband used to do it but it's now time for you to start learning because the time is going to come where you're going to need to invest this and you're going to want to understand it you don't want to just hand a check for for $1.1

million over to anybody and say here you

handle this you're going to want to say okay I get it and a great place to start

is here you know here at Ramsey we do teach that investing is a better place

for you to build long-term wealth than a money market account or a high yield savings account simply because of rate of return right if you invest that money

you'll get a higher uh compound interest

rate of return on that so it'll grow faster and so I would tell you to get

hooked up with a smart Fester Pro um

they're going to have the heart of a teacher and they're going to be able to teach you about this and that's the key

thing tell them I don't want to invest anything yet I just want to learn right

and they're going to ultimately have you invested in a way that's um uh four

different types we're spreading it out it's not going to be high risk it's not going to be just in a set of stocks but I want you to understand that so when the time comes we are investing that check but in the meantime we're getting with a smart Fester Pro to teach us and

then as far as the $715,000 401K yeah

leave it let it grow you're probably probably going to have to do a direct transfer rollover into an IRA and so the

smart festor Pro is going to help you do that and then for you now it's all about

career and what you're going to do with

your life because you're super young I

got a couple quick questions on the money first so the 715,000 how old are

you 1040 oh my gosh it's going to be so

much money so the 715 that that is in

the 401 K and that then that's your that

is going to be a lot of money uh what is

that going to be in 30 years okay did

you tell me you're 40 now yeah she's 40

okay so let's just say you retire I

don't know let's say 65 does that sound

good okay okay let's say you add nothing

to it that right there is going to be $8

million holy cow just not touching it

the reason I went to that Susan is

because on this work thing I th this may

or may not be a thing now how old are the kids um they are 14 and 11 my other thing is

can I buy a house like yes I was going

to say that I was working which money do I use I would take the the 1.1 the 1.1

check is is what you need to do plus you already have 95,000 in another savings

account so I was going to ask you what

is a modest house in a nice area what is

a house price you know your area for you

and the kiddos what does that look like what's the what's the money on that I mean right now now there's like nothing

to buy I've been looking um I mean

there's a a nice home for 500,000 that

okay so it's let's just use that as an example

okay so if I'm you and and then I'm

going to pay cash for the house because

right now you're paying $3,600 a month

in rent yeah so you take just little bit

less than half of the 1.1 and you've got

it paid for a house now that monthly

budget which I'm using is the 15,000

you're getting in the settlement now that 3600 was coming out

of the 15K it's not anymore right and

your utilities and things like are going to be nothing you still got the two kiddos in school so so I would come up

with the every dollar budget and and and

budget off of the 15 and I would do the

the some type of an investment strategy based on what a smart investor Pro tells

you because Jade already proved to you

you don't have to put another Penny and I'm not saying not to but I'm guessing

I'm guessing their investment strategy is going to be you're going to diversify some stuff because right now uh you are

more than fine Susan like you're going

to be very very wealthy and uh based on

just the 401K and what it does over time

so for me if I were you I I would take

my time you just came out of this divorce you've just settled I'm fine

with you renting for a little bit longer you're saying the market right now is not a lot on the market let see what happens after this presid presidential election the point is grieve stay cool

the 3600 while it's a little expensive

it's not even phasing you I would take

my time I'd buy a nice house cash MH and

now you still have over half a million dollars to invest and when you invest it you're probably going to look for something that's non-retirement something that you can get to sooner

that's in some sort of a bridge account so that you can access it you know

before I agree with that and that that

should be the advice years but 7 years my goodness but here's

the deal um you're going to have some margin in that monthly as well that's

$180,000 a year for the next s years

yeah you're good so from a standpoint of work uh hang on the line we'll give you

the the the book find the work you're wired to do in the G clear assessment but that is a relaxed like what would I

do if I didn't have to work which by the

way you don't have to you don't have to

I was just talking purpose yeah so sorry

we're running out of time Susan hang on the line we'll get that to you but thank you for the call you're going to be in good shape this is the ramsy [Music]

show from the Ramsey Network it's the

Ramsey Show I'm Jade warshaw next to me

is one of my favorite guys out there Ken

Coleman hello everybody hosting the show together hey we're talking about your life your money uh we'll throw in

careers Ken is the resident career guide

I will help you with the money uh you might have some relationship issues you can toss those in as well the number is 888 8255 225 call us up we'll get you on

the line let's dig right in we've got

Tyler he's in Charlotte North Carolina

what's going on Tyler hey how are you all we're doing

good how can we help today so I have uh

about two and a half million in debt between mortgages

shortterm um different car loans stuff

like that um I'm aggressively paying off

kind of all the all the debt except for

the mortgages currently okay and I'm

just trying to see and now I should have that done in about a year a year and a half the way I have it set up and I'm just trying to see if I should make bigger

changes and try to attack everything a little bit more aggressively and get it paid off sooner yeah uh or continue the

way I'm going let's roll back and see where this lies because when you first tell me I have two and half million dollars of debt my my my pulse quickens

but then when you mentioned real estate I thought okay that makes this a little

different so tell me about the real estate can you just go by property by

property and I'll ask you about each one

so so the first property you have is it a rental I'm guessing yeah a um first one is a duplex

it's worth about 260,000 I owe about

158,000 on it so 1300 yeah about 1300

income about 2150 okay so let's go to the next

one um single family 270,000 asset value

debt about 159 payment 1,000 income 7 50 1750 okay

and the next one uh worth about 310 debt

200,000 payments 1481 income 2,200 okay

uh is there more yeah uh another single

family that one we're actually activ

trying to sell we have on Airbnb

currently is worth about

540 uh debt 460 payment

3,600 and income about the same I think

after everything said and done we're probably losing about 500 a month on that one okay anything after that number

five yeah we have a we have a duplex

value 360,000 debt

205 um payments about 14460 income

2,800 okay um anything else you want to

keep going on yeah it's quite a few more

oh gosh okay well instead of going

through these here here's what I would do if I were in your situation I don't

like that you're carrying 200 $2.5

million of debt and I I love that you

love real estate and I love that you want to get into real estate here we would teach a way to do that that's in

cash and it would be you paying off your debt first and saving up to buy cash

you're you've gone far beyond that and

it is true that some of these may be

good Investments for you but not at the

tune of you being in two and a half million of debt so what I would do if I

were in your shoes is I'd list them all out and I'd say which ones can I sell

off in order to clear this debt out and

are there a few that in the end that I'll be able to keep that do you know create some income for me uh cuz how

many do you have total uh it's 18 units total but we have

uh mortgages how many mortgages seven

eight n 10

uh nine mortgages cting the personal

property one that's paid off flipping

yeah what I would do is try to get right side up on this and figure out which

ones can I sell that are going to bring

the right amount of profit in order for me to clear out this debt um have you

sat down to kind of figure that out yet

well the problem with with doing I mean I've thought about that in the past but being that pretty much every one of

these are make a pretty good income

after after the debt when I factor in

selling them off to pay off the other ones uh it reduces the income pretty

substantially is this your only income

it's not as much income as you think your margins per house are actually not

impressive and I'm not saying that to be unkind I'm saying that because I agree

with Jade and I think the best play here

is to actually get rid of the duplexes

i' sell the duplexes today those are

just bad investments in my opinion um

but I but the point is I think Jade's right you can still come out of this

thing on top you got enough equity in

these homes just as you were listing through these that if you sell x amount

so I would take I'm making this up let's say you got eight properties I I'd take

the best four I'd start there and go what are the absolute best four properties if you're looking longterm Tyler and I think you probably know some of these are better than others true or false okay so once you pay those off as

Jay told you now it's straight profit

but on some of these you were listing you're like well my mortgage is 1,000 I'm making ,750 that's

$750 gross times 12 that's about 10

grand a little over 10 grand and that's

actually gross that's you after your

expenses and taking care of things all

I'm saying is is that you're going to be better off with Jade's plan cuz now you're actually making a sizable chunk

and you don't owe any debt and you have no risk I'd get out of this now I mean

the truth the truth what what what Ken

is saying is right on and I don't say this to be um condescending in any way

but the truth is revenue minus expenses

equals profit and you're in debt you're

in the red because you owe 2 and A5

million it would be very different if you carrying all these properties and you're like Jade I've got and don't get me wrong I'm not saying I'd be a proponent to this but if you're like hey I'm carrying all this debt but because of the way it's cash flowing I'm in the green two and 2 and a half million but you're in the red right so these are not good Investments for you um what signals

a good and healthy business is profit

and so what you're saying you're cash flowing it's not actually profit it is

it is what really should be happening is

you need to be filtering back then in that in to pay off the debt and so for

that reason yeah what Ken said what I

said before is your way out of this I

want you in the green and I want you doing deals that that end um with a net

profit and that's not what's taking place here um could four of these pay

off the other four just gut check real

quick um well I have so there's two if I

if I take my personal property out of here that reduces it down to about uh

1.75 million the mortgages and then the

value would be somewhere

around uh 2.7 million so we have a

million dollars in man okay so let me paint a different picture for you let's just real numbers okay let's say that

you now have a million dollars a million

dollars and and now you're paying off

your personal home no debt in your life

at all and now you got real cash flow

plus cash why is that not the better play in your mind zero risk yeah and

your place is paid yeah like is that not

a better

Vision if you don't agree just yeah you

just have to what you're acting like this is impossible well the thing is we crumbled we just crumbled your Empire like I I sense that you know you have

you've acquired this over time yeah but

those four are going to spit off how much that's what I'm trying to get you to let's say you were left with four houses you got Cash Plus they're

spitting off you know the the four left

they're going to spit off what how much per month

I would have to see which ones the run those numbers here but if I yeah I mean

just off the top of my head probably looking at like uh if I just say three

that equal up close to that it' probably be somewhere around I don't know 6,000 or so okay but

that's real money now that's 72 Grand in

the clear mhm not paying any debt you'll

have some expenses on that yeah the the

truth is Ken is right if there's anything good about any of these Investments you should be able to sell off some of them pocket some cash get

your residents paid for and keep some of

the properties that's that's that's what

should be happening here um if for some

reason you can't sell these to clear the debt then something really is wrong this is the Ramsey show all right Dave you have some strong opinions possibly yeah yeah I think so

okay because you really prefer Credit

Unions over big Banks well Credit Unions

for one thing are uh nonprofit which

means that the members the customers own

the credit union so any profits that the

credit union makes goes back into

customer pricing so you get better

interest rate on savings cheaper checking and so on that kind of thing and and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit

on the credit union so I find very few

Credit Unions that aren't very customer Centric well and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's

Fairwinds they are an incredible Credit

Union that is really out with the heart to help the customer they're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really

good job with customer service and um

the deals that they're offering the Ramsey tribe is incredible yeah absolutely and I love it the things that we teach they so line up with and you're

right their customer service is unbelievable Winston and I just signed up and we got an account and I'm not

kidding it took less than five minutes

it was so us or friendly like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable and then the next day my phone rings and it says Fair wins on my phone I answered

it and talked to someone there and they said yeah they give calls to every new

customer and so again they just really

care about your experience and I I so so

appreciate that plus anything that you can do at a traditional Branch you can

do with them at fairwinds.org or on

their app and you'll have free access to

over 33,000 ATMs hey you guys know how

much I hate banks in general and so for

me to do this is a big deal talk to our

friends at Fairwinds and check out the

combin checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe

you guys it's incredible yeah you guys it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter

where you live so go to fairwinds.org

Ramsey all right who needs some help out

there you're just going I'm I'm not where I want to be I'm not where I want to be with my money I'm not where I want to be in my relationships I'm not where I want to be in my professional Journey

if that's you no shame in your game

number one and number two we'd love to

help we being Jade War my colleague

co-host and friend and I'm Ken Coleman

or Ramsey personalities and we're here for you this is a this is a listener of

viewer show we are here for you we take

your questions 8825 5225

8825 5225 let's go to Detroit now

Kendall is there Kendall how can we

help hi nice to talk with you today you

too what's going on um so I just

graduated medical school about a half a year ago hey Co

congrats thank you um so have about

three and a half years left obviously residency salary is about 60,000 I have

about 220 in student debt um but no

other debt in my life um so my plan is

like you know I can't pay off my debt while I'm a resident I don't make enough but when I graduate I was going to live off of like 40,000 pay off my debt in

two years but yeah my question is I don't have like any money saved for retirement and I'll be 33 when I start

makinging six figures so should I

prioritize paying off my debt or should I start saving more for retirement well

Jay's going to help you on that but I'm just real curious what do you think that

starting salary is and what do you think

the range is maybe in the first couple

years uh 270 to 300 most likely Jade you

can do something with that can't you coach listen I'm excited for you um

thank you excited too you should be I'm

I'm I'm excited for you you know you've got this big milestone you know coming

up you've got three and a half years left of med school so that's that's cool

so luckily you came out of this with only 20,000 of student loans can I just

quickly ask you 220 220 220 I caught

that one woo listen I'm glad I asked

because I was like how in the world would you do that all right so you've got 220 of student loans nothing else

right yes nothing else okay and we've

got a couple more years of 60,000 salary

60 to 80 or just 60 yeah like 60 to 70 probably

okay um yeah I I'm with you uh they're

not going to become do until after you

graduate right and then you've got well

are they going to be does it does residency count for that or is it

separate so they're on I'm on an income

based repayment plan and also the save plan so okay like typically they gain

,000 a month of interest but the th

those two plans allow me to

um pay 233 and the government um pays

the rest of the interest so they're not going to grow in residency and I only have to pay 233 a month but when I graduate that'll change okay okay got it

um you know I would try to pay as much as you can with the salary that you have I mean that's all that you can do but what I really want to address is the fact that you said that

you're only 33 years old and you'll be

33 when it's time to retire or when it's

time to start saving for retirement and you don't want to be behind and I

whenever I hear that I kind of just want to let people know like I've been there

and you know when my husband and I were paying off our student loan debt which was about 280,000 you know we didn't finish that

until we were around your age 33 uh

pregnant with my my son and we hadn't started investing at all and I kind of

want you to understand that you're going to be okay so let's just pretend I I

love doing the investment calculator so let's let's just play around here how how old are you can I ask yeah I'm 29

right now oh my goodness you're 29 so let's just say I'm going to plug this in we have a really cool investment calculator and I'm just going to say let's pretend you're 29 years old now let's pretend that you plan to retire at

age 62 let's just say that um and you

have zero in retirement now

right and let's just say because you're

let's say because you're saving for a home you're not investing the whole 15%

that we would advise when the time comes so let's say you're investing 10% so $2,700 a month Fair are you

tracking with me yep okay so we're doing

2700 I'm plugging that in and let's just

be very conservative and say an 8%

annualized rate of return let's

calculate that and see what that'll be so when the time comes you'll have over

$5

million oh okay $5

million yeah that's a lot yeah I think

you're going to be all right I think you're going to be just

fine so that's that's what I want you to

leave here with is all right I've got

time I'm work you know I'm doing the MD

thing I'm paying as much as I can once I

hit this salary I'll be able to knock out whatever remains I'll save up 3 to

six months of expenses in baby step three and by then like I said you might be wanting to save for a down payment too and that's baby step 3B and that

comes before you start investing so

you've got time and you might start to do baby step 3B and baby step 4 which is

investing 15% at the same time whatever

you choose there you're going to be fine $5 million that makes me sleep a lot

better at night K and those numbers and

and by the way Kendall those numbers are going to be way bigger than that she was just going real conservative here that's if you never make any more money like

you're going starting salary what two

years you pay off your debt then you got your emergency fund after that you save for a house let's just say you don't start investing until 36 again not an issue because of the

amount of money that your 15% represents

and the compound interest is insane okay

so you don't have to worry about that

that's the point I don't that's the whole thing that you called about you're

not too late you aren't going to be destitute you're G to be very very

wealthy is it just you Kendall right now

it's just me I'm still I'm still uh

figuring that out yeah but so that's a

great Point Jade that doesn't take into account a double income oh by the way you know what else doesn't take into account all the money you're GNA make on

a house because you're GNA put a really big chunk down and you're going to pay it off you're going to have a pay for

house when you retire as well I I got to tell you Kendall i' be shocked if you

don't do what we tell you to do if you're not in the 10 million range by

the time you're 65 the shock that's incredible I'm not

making that up am I security yeah I I

don't think that's a stretch no I don't think that's a stretch you know so so

you've got this you got it thank you

yeah I really appreciate it follow the plan hey do you have any of our products

you got any books or anything that you kind of lean on I don't my sister went through your

program um and she normally just like talks to me about all of this kind of stuff but I don't have I want to give you something Jade let's give her something to kind of cement this so that she can see the process for sure Total Money Makeover yeah Total Money Makeover

and hey I want you to head to every doll.com Jade and I want you to pick up

every dollar premium and it it'll give

you $15 off and what I love about every

dollar premium is you can kind of the

same way that I plugged in your numbers and gave you that snapshot of what your

investing future could look like we've got a financial road map Planner on there that you can plug in all sorts of numbers to figure out where you want to

be and where you're going to meet certain Milestones so you can plug in

numbers to figure out how long it would take you to save 3 to six months of expenses or how long it would take you to save up for a home those sorts of

things so um we'll make sure you have that and I think she's all said you're a rockar uh Okay Jade we got about a minute here we got new people coming in all the time so I think it's really good to revisit what is a really sensible

question yes and that is I've got all

this debt and if it takes me six years

or five years or four years to pay it off I'm so far behind the eightball in

investing why do we teach that the way we do that we clear debt first before we

invest explain that to newcomers who

might still be going ah really I mean

there's a lot of reasons a lot of good reasons the first reason is your income

is your biggest wealth building tool like that's a Dave Ramsey classic quote right there you need your income available in order to be able to invest it and for most of us we're living

paycheck to paycheck like we don't have any money left at the end of the month

but after we've paid our bills our car note we've got groceries we paid the Kids Daycare most of us don't feel like

we have that breathing room because we

have so many debts and bills so the

first step is to clear that out so you get your money back in your budget and

then you save 3 to 6 months because if you don't save first and you start

investing right away if an emergency

comes you start pulling from your retirement or you start using credit cards and you go back into debt so you pay off the debt you build up the savings and then and only then we start

investing and that's the way it works if

you start doing it out of order you start messing yourself up Ken and you just proved it once you start that investing compound interest becomes your

best pal and so it can work you're not

too late trust the process

it works we're so glad you've joined us

she's Jade warshaw I'm Ken Coleman this

is the Ramsey show I've been doing this show for over

30 years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah in the middle of

all that like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-upping it because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time

to put the stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all

of our family's needs for insurance for

many years including of course term life

insurance to get a free quote go to 800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com welcome back to the Ramsey

show where we talk to you about you your

money your work your relationships is

our goal we want you to win in all three I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw is with me

and the phone number to jump in is 8825

5225 time uh excuse me uh try not to say

too many things at once when you're live on the air sometimes it's tough sometimes every once in a while I get on a roll a little too fast it is time for

today's question of the day brought to you by why refi now we do not recommend

refinancing on everything but for distressed private student loans there is y refi We Trust y refi because they

help you with a low fixed interest rate

you couldn't get anywhere else and it's going to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt learn more at y refi.com Ramsey that's the letter Y

rey.com Ramsey may not be available in all

states all right today's question comes from Ken in Mississippi my man all right

he says I had a work performance

evaluation after being at my current

company for six months I got nothing but

ad a boys and received no criticism for

the job I'm doing then they offered me a

50 cent raise per hour I just wanted to

know how you guys felt about that after

a performance review of nothing but great feedback am I being selfish or

should I just accept it for what it is and hope for better compensation next

time well Ken you are being selfish but

selfish in this particular

interpretation Jade is not bad no you

got to look out for yourself that thank you thank you for picking that up that

word selfish gets a really negative thing but when it comes to your money

nobody your compensation you are you are your agent

you are your manager that's right this is your livelihood so all of the feels

yeah around this scenario are what I

would call absolutely normal dare I say

healthy that's good in other words he gets a good review he's sitting there

and he's getting all positive a boy and

then they go

I love how you I love how you dramatized

it even in the question it was like I think she was in a few dramas in in

plays when she was in school uh so in

this situation Jade um it's a it's a

it's a shot to the chest 50 cents that yeah I'm going tell

you something if you don't feel

something when you get a 50 raise it's a

little insulting then something's wrong with you yeah and so I would say Ken

uh you are being what I would call

properly selfish in recognizing real

feelings that should feel that way

because I'm objective I have no skin in this and I would feel that way if I put myself in your shoes so now let's get to

the the second part of this um should

you accept it I don't know because

here's what I would be asking and so I'm going to play your agent all right I'm Gonna Be Your agent and then I'm going to give it to my uh assistant agent over

if Jade and I are agenting for you um

I'm going to say I want to find

out is that a

normal raise the average in the United

States and this is not a law if you look

at the numbers annual raises usually fall between 3 and 4% again no one's

beholden to that number 50 cent raise is

really really low that's right so the

question becomes Ken why is it only 50

cents is the compan

struggling good question you got to ask that that's a good question if the company's struggling we all got to tighten the in our personal budgets and so I'd want

to know why only 50 and dig into that

and uh and then you have to decide from

there okay that's the now answer but I

want to look at next CU I don't want to keep feeling this way right because you keep showing up year after year and you feel this way it's not good for you it's

not good for you thoughts yeah that's the thing uh that's a good question can

if you ask and say hey what's going on you know I've done I I I've done some research I know the standard is company

doing all right and let's say he says well you know no we're not d d d then

then it's like okay well am I up for the ride of so sticking out sticking it out until

the last part of his question should I hope for better compensation next time

no brother it's getting lower it's it's

only going lower from here probably I I don't like hope when it comes to compensation yeah do you I love hope and

I think in this case there's probably a lot more fish in the sea that have fatter pockets uh when it's time for

look at you and the mixed metaphors that was strong yeah fatter fatter gills we

got to find some fish with fatter

gills that's good truly though I I'm

with you I don't want hope in that I want to put my hope in me and and and

the Lord and action I'm not going to put

hope in well it was 50 cents this year

well Ken talk about motivation I hope they bump it to a buck 25 next year talk

about the role that that sort of thing

plays in the in the motivation of the worker Okay so so it if you feel de if

you feel as though you've been devalued

mhm it's a slippery slope to where you

devalue yourself that's good that's what

Happ very good so you're saying he's going to start he would start doing things to throw himself yeah why you

start questioning I'm only worth 50 cents

that's good that's that's tough stuff

that is tough uh but that's the real re

U so anyway sorry about that Ken I would be looking for greener pastures uh if it

were me I agree um um but you know again

and by the way anybody in that situation can I just say this very quickly get the

get clear assessment in the book find the work you wir to do it's one purchase price get the book and I'm going to tell

you something lay it over take the

results of the assessment read the book it's 45 minute read for this reason J

it'll help people go where could I go

yes where are my possibilities I'm not

stuck I'm this is not the only thing I

can do gosh that's a that's a really

important theme for me is for people to see I got options you can't see them I

promise you you have got options so that

book is really going to infuse you with the confidence to know 100% it's not

just that that's not my only op yeah I

love that it's about self-awareness and by the way on the other side of self-awareness is confidence you cannot

be confident if you aren't aware that's true so there you go just a quick that's

why that's why I put that resource out it's fabulous little resource so there

you go all right to the phones we go uh

Ed is up in Columbia South Carolina Ed

can we help hey Ken and Jay thanks for

taking my call sure what's up I just

have a question about um paying off a mortgage and

until I wouldn't have made this call I

knew the answer in listening to your show and listening to Dave but I I was

notified that my my job is being

downsized October 1st oh man I'm sorry

about that thank you and and the thing

about it is I still want to pay off the

house but I'm concerned that I should leave the cash yeah in in case we need

give J the numbers real quick walk walk her through the numbers okay uh if would

you want me to walk you through the how much how much is the pay off yeah okay

our payoff is 113,000 the house is worth

400,000 okay and my wife and I in the

last two years have saved 190,000 in our

savings okay what of that is your emergency fund it's not I don't I don't well if I

was going to take the emergency fund out of that it would be 50,000 Okay so it's

140 you got 140 up for grabs yep um and

that leaves you with 50k there um

typically what we would say in a time like this where you're kind of in a crisis mode I would tell you not to do

anything major like jump into sums of

money how quickly do you think you can find new work and is your wife also working those are my two questions wife my wife is working I I actually I I work

two side hustles I listen to Dave a lot

so I started working two side hustles to

to save to pay off the house so will you

be able to if you keep those two side hustles your wife works and you get laid

off is that enough to cover the bills

and cover your life if you pay off the mortgage 100% we're debt we're debt

we're debt free our cars are we don't

owe anything but the mortgage and I do

it I think so too I do it you've still got $50,000 you're still able to make

your bills even without this job and now

you're lowering your expenses by not having a mortgage it's just taxes and insurance yeah I do you uh you getting a

severance of any type no they didn't

they don't do that but you know what you got to Head Start you got you're right that's right

baby listen I I got I'd be looking for a

job as soon as you hang up the phone 100% I already have I already have been

and and I'm fortunate I'm I'm a

professional salesperson but I also have a lot of experience in retail

greatening to you guys I'll be at

Walmart or Target or Costco you know pay

the house off Jade says yeah you guys are awesome you've done an excellent excellent job and this is the fruit of your labor good you guys kept me off the ledge and I appre I wouldn't be in this situation if I didn't listen to your show so good do you like uh you like country music I do

you ever heard of an old guy named Johnny Paycheck I know who he is yeah

download his song when we hang up it's called take this job and shove it you

can take this job and shove it cuz he's

paid his house off I know right i' be

like hey you guys let me go guess what I

did I paid my house off there you go

yeah come on man that's real Financial

Peace that's why we do what we do Ed you're the poster child we're happy for

you this is the Ramsey Show welcome back

to the Ramsay show I'm Ken Coleman I'm

joined in studio with or by rather Jade

warshaw 88255 225 tri8 825

5225 all right let's see we've got our

um Ramsay Network app question and this

is from Gabriel he asks can you really

win money with apps like Bingo winner

and Mr BEAST's new app or is it a scam

also I was wondering if acorns and Robin

Hood what's happening I'm sorry are good

investment options uh I I I I I'm 50

years old I don't know what Bingo winner

is and I barely know who Mr Beast is so

I'm unqualified to even answer this question CU I don't even know what that means I'm I'm going to can you win money

with their apps I don't have the f fiest

idea anybody in there anybody Z Kelly do

you know what they're talking I have no idea the last game I played was Words

with Friends and there was no like

option to win money so I'm guessing it's

one of these apps like a candy crunch

the only app that I play in is a fantasy

football and that has nothing to do with any of this that's just me can can I give a can I give a a hot take yes

please bail me out cuz I don't know how to answer this question all right this is this is controverse and I I I own

that oh boy I am here for this I I'm

going to I'm going to get here for this I feel like if you have time to play

games on your phone you something's wrong like who has

like if you're out working and crushing it and taking care of your you don't have time to play games on your phone I

have zero problem with this this is not

controversial to me and and to put money

into here's my phone right here I have

no game apps on my phone so I I I feel

like I'm in Jade's good good stad right

now and I'm like I just I can't

understand that I can't watch a show

like watch a show with your spouse or or read a book to spend M have a

conversation but to spend money on a

game inside your phone that's called

Bingo winner yeah I'm going to go ahead

and say that I don't know if it's a scam

but you should not be spending your time on it there's no Roi on your time and

I'll bet there's not much ey on the money no and then uh I was wondering if

acorns and Robin Hood are good investment options uh Robin Hood is an investment

platform uh we are very clear at Ramsey

Solutions what our investment strategy

is I'll hand it to my colleague to give

a very quick give us 60-second

investment strategy that would be our answer to any of this yeah I don't like these apps because they really uh they

enforce they're they're really more about trading and the idea of I'm putting a little bit here but I can move it at any time and that's not our

strategy we are long-term investors we

are people who dollar cost average we are people who said it and forget it and

keep it there for a long period of time

and so that's why I don't like these apps because they don't promote that um

so I would invest with my 401k through

my job or I'd be a part of a brokerage

and have my Roth IRA I I I got to confess I just uh put the old the

graphic look at the graphic on that thing I just typed in Bingo winner app

and boy talk about getting me in trouble

yeah anything that looks like that it is

designed to suck the brain right out of your head it's yeah it is that's my ruling on that it looks like it's designed to keep you addicted whatever it is so let me tell you what I know

successful millionaires aren't spending a lot of time on Bingo win there you go

so now I've got a ruling okay now we can move on goodness wow that was something

wasn't it I'm never getting that time

back neither are you Matthew is up in

Austin Texas Matthew how can we

help how you all doing well we're better

now we're glad you're here we're

thrilled about your question what is it

you sound like you always got it together so just need your help thinking

I'm supposed to get married here in a couple weeks

congrats thanks there uh but yikes kind

of um and it has mainly to do with kids

I've got kids and how my new wife

interacts I guess the question being how

much does myami wife have say so into

how I uh raise my kids uh spend money on

my kids and that type of thing because

it's really I'm really kind of struggling with it all right real quick question because I I my colleague is

loaded up ready to go um I I I I want to

know this how long have you two been

dating two years two years and in in the

two years has there been moments of

tension based on her maybe stepping into

some situations that the kids weren't really cool with or you weren't cool

with or there have been some comments

I'm just giving you what I mean when I say moments is have there been several moments of tension that lead to this

concern there's enough I knew the answer

to that yeah my

friend yeah I I would just say this I

this needs to be settled in premarital counseling stat how old are the kids

immediately they're not young and so I

got two in college I have one that's a

teenager well the two in college that's

a non-factor she doesn't get to say anything about that and how old's the

teenager she's 16 but for example like

when the the subject comes up and I

don't like saying this and I know it's probably wrong but I say I'm a I'm a dad

first if you make me choose is that a

wrong thing to say

yes yeah because you're you're treating

it like she's Expendable and technically

now I know this is different and and I I

I am going to step lightly on this but

typically when you get married it's the marriage first that's why I said what I

said and then it's the kids now also

traditionally the the person you're married to is the person you've had children with so it it's easier to make

that statement and I want to I want to

hang out there it is easier to make that statement when that's the case in your

case I don't think it makes it any less true but I think it makes it more difficult to stand on that

um I agree I agree I'm I'm going to

default to you called us because you've

got some real fear and I'm glad you

called us if for no other reason and

then I'm telling you as a guy who went through premarital counseling um and I've been married 26

years long enough to know that had Stacy

and I not been on the same page about the major I don't know that we're here same same

uh you know and so I I'm just saying

that Matthew um you need to invest time

and money into premarital counseling to

sit with a professional therapist and

get this stuff out on the table like you've got to say she has created this

tension here I feel like she stepped over here she needs to be able to say I

didn't like it when you said I'm a dad first like we got to get this all out

before we lock in and then there's the

kids side of this too there is the kids

side of it but they got to solve it between the two of them first you got to know what life is going to look like day

one now we manage those decisions after

that she's nice to my kids that's not it

but we're kind of different when things come up like well I go uh she like well

if they're 22 they're going to be on their own like well yeah but I sure hope

so but what if something happens and

they need to move back in you know that

kind of thing again those those things

come up or do are you are you going to pay for the uh master's degrees too

instead of us going to Hawaii for

vacation those it's so I'm like wait a

minute okay so yeah she's got to realize that there's a whole life here and

there's other people she's marrying

she's marrying the into the family not

just you and that's the case with anybody you marry into the family you marry into the situation whatever it is

so I think that you guys Ken is right um

there's a lot that must be discussed before this happens and Matthew look I

only got two oh wow okay well you know what is

this a big is this a big fancy wedding

when we got a lot of people coming and a lot of money being spent no but I can't I can't move it not

moving so you know what I appreciate

Matthew he's going listen Ken I know where you're going pal I don't want to walk down that path um I would I would I

press pause would because what I don't

want I would never want you to feel like

you don't have a choice or like once the wheels in are in motion you can't you

know put a wood stick in it and grind it to a hole you can you have choices still

um you have a lot less choices once you say I do I agree I I'd get a session in

at least and talk about these Majors I

really would before the the wedding but can I also say that if she says hey are you going to pay for their master's degree or are we going to go to Hawaii the answer is where is my grass skirt that's what

the answer is the kids can pay for their master's degree go with Mama to Hawaii

man Aloha come on I thought you were going in a different direction with that k no kids need to pay for their own masters I'm glad you do I'm glad you this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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## 162. Take Control Of Your Money Before It Takes Control Of You | August 13, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:12:31 |

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of the super popular Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. PhD in counseling, so if you need some, he's here. Phone number is8825-55225.

Matt is in Long Island. Hey Matt, what's up? >> Hey, how you doing Dave? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Okay, so I currently work about 70 to 75

hours a week between two jobs. I'm married with two kids >> and I'm on baby step number six.

I wanted to know if it would be wise to

stop working my second job and kind of spend a little bit more time with my family. Yes. Rather than trying to pay my house off early. >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> I I don't we don't recommend 80 hours a week when you're on baby steps four, five, and six. When you're on two and you're getting out of debt and three you're trying to build your emergency fund, yeah, you pour the coals on. You burn the midnight oil. You kick butt.

you take six jobs and sell so much stuff the kids think they're next and all that, right? But then when you move from baby step, when you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund and you move into four, five, and six, which is save for retirement, kids, college, and pay off your house, you move from intense to intentional,

>> okay? >> And so intentional is not 80 hours a week um as a pattern. I I wouldn't do

that um as an ongoing thing. you'll hit the wall because there's those three baby steps take, you know, typically six, seven years.

>> Mhm. >> And so, how much do you haul in your house today? >> About 350,000.

>> Yeah. It's going to be a while. So, yeah, I'd relax a little. I mean, if you cut back to 60 hours, you'd feel like you're on vacation.

>> When I Exactly. When I don't work the second job, I don't know what to do with all the time. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're gonna spend it with your kids, not on Netflix >> and and not on Instagram. Yeah.

>> Hey, and dude, expect that to feel a little bit itchy.

>> Yeah. >> Like, nobody tells us as parents, and I love my kids more than life itself, but sometimes it can get boring.

>> And the next deal can feel like a little bit of a rush, right? Or the next email to an employee that's bugging you can feel like a rush. just expect to get a little bit itchy when you cut 20 hours out of your week and you're sitting around a table like drawing pictures of dragons again or whatever um or throwing the same Frisbee. It can feel a little bit boring, but man, that time you don't get back and it becomes magical over time.

>> Yeah, it's worth it. It's worth that investment. You want to make deposits into that account.

Louis. Hi, Mackenzie. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, so I am calling me and my husband just agreed to start on the baby steps about 2 days ago and we have a AC and

furnace that needs replaced that we know is coming up soon that costs about $11,000.

We currently have about 10,000 in our

high yield savings and about 12 in our checking. But we have our

the first loan that we're going to go at with our debt is a student loan. That's about 17 or 18,000 left on it.

>> That's your smallest debt. >> I don't know.

>> Correct. Yeah.

>> How much debt do you have?

>> Um we've got about 99 that's not our

house and then about 185 left on our house. >> Okay. And 17 is a student loan of the 99. What's the rest of the 99?

So those are my husband's student

loans of 56 and then we have a minivan

that has 24 left on it.

>> Okay. So that's the second one. And then so 17 24 56 is your order of attack,

right? >> Correct. >> Are those broken up into a bunch of smaller little loans that you've added together or did you already did you already consolidate them? >> Yeah.

No, that's all of them together.

Okay. Then we wouldn't we don't list we list them we list them by the loan balance not by category.

>> So 17,000 is not your 17,000 is not your

smallest debt then.

>> Okay. So our okay our highest interest

>> n forget about interest. Interest rate doesn't matter. All we're doing is listing the debts smallest to largest

regardless of interest rate. pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one. So, uh, how many student loans make up the 17?

>> Um, I think he has about four or five.

>> Okay. And how many how many student loans make up the 56?

>> That's like seven or eight of them.

>> Okay. So, that's going to be So, the the car is going to end up being last probably. Yeah. Which would be normal.

So, we're going to plow. >> We were going to do his student loans and then the van because those are both about 400 a month. So, that would open 800. >> Oh, you're Okay. If you want to work your system, you can. Okay. I'm telling you how to work ours.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Um I mean, it's up to you. You get to do what you want to do.

But the way you work ours is is you work it smallest to largest regardless of interest rate or payment amount. And that that that that system is actually proven because the completion rate of people who start that system is very high. And the reason is is they get positive feedback as they knock off those smallest debts in the early stages. And cuz right now you're two whole days into this.

And right now it's all still theory. You have no proof yet. But when you pay off that first one, you get a little bit of proof. And you pay off another one, you get a little bit more proof.

And the more proof you build up, the more excited you get and the more sacrificial you get in your lifestyle because you start to see that this is going to work and I'm willing to pay. I'm willing to work extra. I'm willing to sell stuff. I'm willing to move ahead.

I mean, you may end up even selling the van. What do y'all What do you make a year?

>> Um, he makes about

make 82. >> He makes about Your Your phone keeps cutting out. He makes about what? One.

He makes 130 and I make 82.

>> Okay. So, you've got a $200,000 household income. $212,000 household income. Okay. Um >> Yep. And we were we were doing things backwards. So, he was putting into his 401k. We stopped that. We had a college savings for our kids. We stopped that.

So, >> good about >> And that's temp those are temporary because you should be out of debt in a year or so.

>> Yeah. I agree. >> Yeah. So, get in attack mode. Now, the heating and air, back to that. That's why you called. Uh, it it's it's not bad. It's just limping and it's old. And

the heat and air guy keeps telling you every time he comes out to service it that you're going to have to get a new one.

>> We actually just had the electric company come in our house cuz our electric bill is last. So, we had them come in and tell us where we could save money on it and what was wrong. >> Yeah. And of course, they recommend you get a new heat system. Yeah. A lot of people recommend to get a heat and air system that sell heat and air systems.

It's kind of goes with that territory.

So, here's the thing. The one you have is going to make it another year.

>> Okay? >> And if it doesn't, you're going to fix it and it's going to make it another year. >> So, um you need to take the money from that account and out of your checking and out of your savings down to $1,000

and throw that 20 and get this debt snowball rolling fast. And then you guys

crank up crank up the uh the budget and

let's get this thing knocked out. You probably are going to be debtree in about 8 months if you do that. Maybe nine if I'm doing the math right in my head. So, and then you'll then you'll

buy a heat and air system with cash at the time. But the whole thing's not going to completely collapse and you're not going to freeze to death in the interim. You're just not.

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Michael's in Georgia. Hey, Michael.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Thank you, Dave. Thanks so much for having me. I got a question about our will. My wife is 63. I'm 60 or she 62,

I'm 64. We have two children and adult

children and uh we have right now our

will divided 50/50. Um my son has a

history of blowing money. Um and we have stopped helping some years ago. Um also

there's other concerns. He's in a lifestyle and a relationship that we don't agree with. Um and so we the question is really simple. Can is it appropriate to change the will where uh one adult child is a a beneficiary of

you know a decreased amount?

>> Yes, it's it's it's totally appropriate.

The um >> Okay. >> And and the but the goal not is not to be a punishing force.

>> Exactly. >> Um the goal is to I don't want to finance things I don't agree with.

>> Okay. Okay. >> With my death. Okay. And so, um, my

value system is not matching. And so,

uh, I'm not going to, uh, finance, you

know, an extreme situation that I always use just to kind of illustrate the concept. And it's not what you're you've got, but I mean, if your kid's doing heroin and you leave them a bunch of money, you killed them because they're going to overdose because they got they're now a well financed heroin addict. And so, you know, you're not you're not doing them a favor to finance

their bad choices um from the grave. And so, um >> is this some is this something we communicate? >> Yes. God, please. Yes. Okay.

>> Otherwise, you're going to destroy his relationship with his brother, >> the sibling. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a daughter and a son. >> Yeah. You're gonna destroy because you're gonna leave all this to the daughter and then when you pass away, >> he's gonna be pissed at her like she did something and she didn't do anything. So, >> and you know, and and >> you know, John, make some how what's the gentlest cuz we again, you want to make sure you're not using I if it's me, I would

have a tendency to be uh doing this out

as punishment and I have to make sure I get my heart right that I am not doing

that, but instead I'm doing this to not

finance the wrong things. That's been a two to that's been a two to threeyear process of making sure my heart is right. This is something we could have done some years ago. But uh >> yeah I I mean how do you gently have this conversation? >> Well, if you if like you say like if you're worried about him blowing money um I always like there to be a path to redemption. And so um if there is no

path there's no path and then there's not a gentle way other than to treat the person with dignity and respect and be kind and say it and expect the blowback that you're going to anticipate. Um, but don't become somebody you're not in an effort to have a hard conversation, right? Um, the other side of it is if this person has a history of blowing money, a history of addiction, a history of whatever, and you've cut them off financially, being able to say, "I want to love and support you, but I I I'm not willing to do it in this way.

If you get on this plan, if you want to sit down and get some support in these ways, man, I'm I'm all I'm all open. But as of right now, here's my decision. >> Yeah. And and it this is not our relationship I'm cutting off.

It's just the money, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I still love you. And you can't do anything that you can't do anything bad enough to make me not love you.

>> Yeah. Even logistically, you got, you know, a child who's single. You got another one who's got two kids. So you could we present it even logistically that I think you just tell them the truth.

>> We're not aligned on these things, honey. And you know we're not aligned on these things. and you know we love you anyway but we you need to know also that we're not we don't feel right about leaving money to finance things that we are not aligned on and so I just want to let you know that your sister has nothing to do with this but the we are changing the will because of these decisions you have made and so um and

and when if you decide not to do that anymore then we can talk about that but um it's not a punishment it's because we just don't send money to things that we don't think it's it's it's morally or ethically correct to send money to things we don't agree with >> and so you know um you know and so on

you know it's and I I don't know that the conversation needs to be lengthy >> I really wouldn't get into who shot who >> very short very short and and always it's kind of like a like a termination of employment here's the hard thing >> I'm going to be back here in a week or I know this is hard to digest this is challenging whatever if you want to talk some further about it. I'd love to circle back with you on it, but this is I just want you to know this is some choices we've made because at that moment it's fight or flight.

>> Don't try to explain it, >> right? Not in that moment. >> Don't give a whole bunch of details as to why. >> Not in that moment.

>> It's just these couple things here, you know, we're not aligned on >> and you know, based on that, your mom and I have talked about it and we don't think it's morally correct for us to leave money to things that we're not aligned on. It doesn't mean we don't love you. Here here's the the biggest thing out of this. I just was having a conversation with somebody outside of this building recently about this very thing.

Have the conversation. I I talked to a sibling whose parent called and said, "I'm moving all the money to you >> and will not have the conversation." And I said, "Well, circle back and say for destroying my relationship with my sibling." Yeah. It goes wrong every time. >> That's just that's cowardly.

>> Correct. Yeah. So, yeah. That you've got you've got to and the the way we always make fun of it here on the air is like if you're going to piss somebody off with your will, do it while you're alive.

You know, it's that kind of thing because there you are going to get blowback on this too. By the way, don't don't expect this conversation to go well.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to go well.

But the uh what's the saying you use? I can't remember. It's regret is

uh >> Oh, choose guilt over resentment. >> Yeah, choose guilt over resentment.

Yeah, >> you're going to feel guilty about taking the money, whatever. Um otherwise, you're just going to live every moment resenting your kid for future behavior they may or may not do after you're gone. >> And they don't even know they're doing it right yet. So, yeah, that's the whole

thing. Patrick's in Grand Junction, Colorado. Hey, Patrick. What's up?

>> Hey Dave, I am assuming you are doing better than you deserve. So, I will jump right in, buddy. >> Okay. >> Um, my wife and I are 45 years old and

we have six kids from 18 down to 10

and they have all gone through your

homeschool um Dave Ramsey curriculum.

>> Awesome. >> And they Yeah, they are doing great. My 15-year-old son came to us with an Excel

spreadsheet that he printed out and he said, "Mom, when can I start a Roth IRA?" >> Wow.

So, three, my first three kids started the Roth IRA at 15. My fourth kid, he's 14 years old. He wants to start his this year. And they're really doing good.

>> That's amazing. >> I've never told a parent this before.

Get your kid a video game system or something.

>> I will consider it. Okay. Uh Dave, my

wife and I think we might be able to complete baby step number six this year.

good >> at the very worst early next year.

>> Congratulations. >> Totally obvious. Yeah, obviously totally debtree. >> My question and I have 10,000 more questions after this, but I know we don't have a lot of time. So, the main question, how do I protect my home once it is totally paid off? I'm self-employed and I'm just concerned

that once I have this nice juicy asset,

you know, that's if the worst thing happens, maybe you get sued, someone gets hurt on a job and all of a sudden someone wants to come after your home, what's the best way to protect it? Do I put it in a trust? Do you have a suggestion, you know, for us?

>> Um, well, number one, your business where the liability that you're concerned with should be an LLC.

>> Mhm. >> Is it?

No, it is not so proprietor. Okay,

that's the first thing. That's the first thing the business needs to be an LLC because that's your biggest source of then if the if if someone gets hurt or harmed in some way associated with the LLC, the only thing they could sue is the LLC.

>> Got it. Okay. So, the assets in the company. >> Yeah. And the assets in the company. And you do business in the name of the LLC all the time. You never again do business in the name of Patrick. Um, and

so once you've got some assets and you're running a business that enough assets that you worry about having a target like this, >> then you definitely do an LLC there. If you want to go one step further, you can just drop the house into an LLC if you want. Uh, some people put their homes in trusts. I I I did that with one house.

Uh, but these days everything we have is LLC's and I got a bunch of them and I

actually am very poor. I don't own a single thing. There's zero things in Dave's name. So, if you want to sue me, you just have at it. I don't own anything. It's really a It's really a bad target. It's not a target-rich environment. So, but now some of the LLC's that we have, they own some stuff.

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Paul is in Minnesota. Hey Paul, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um well, my wife and I are um currently

we have about $57,000 in debt minus our

house. Um we have um baby step one

complete. We have the you know the $1,000 saved up. Um we just we're trying

to recover from just years of making bad financial decisions and just kind of don't know what to do um to kind of take that next step. Um it just seems like whenever we try to get ahead, um something comes up, we have to, you know, dip into our savings or eliminate our savings. And you know, we some months are good, other months we're paycheck to paycheck, and we're just trying to find a way we can sustain more income and just kind of get ahead with this debt.

>> Okay. So, what's your household income?

um take-home pay um after taxes um

between our two main jobs is about 60 to 65,000 a year. Um I started my own business last year doing interior detailing and that kind of fluctuates.

That's probably added another 15,000 a

year >> on top of this.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, you're dealing with $80,000 a

year situation and you you said take-home pay. who stopped 401ks temporarily.

>> Uh, yep. We don't we don't have a retirement through our jobs. Okay.

>> Unfortunately. >> Okay. And you do you have any other expenses coming out of your checks other than taxes?

>> Um, no.

>> Okay. Where's health insurance?

>> Um, our health insurance is um we just locally purchased it through the state.

Um, it's about $230 a month.

>> Okay. And you're buying that separate as a budget item. Okay. All right.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So, we got 80,000 bucks to deal with and you have $57,000 in debt. What is the uh debt on?

>> Um, so we have about $8,500 in a personal loan. Um, 9,500 in credit

cards. Um, the big ones are going to be our two vehicles, about $20,000 between

the two. And then, um, just about 21,000

in school loans.

>> Okay. All right. And uh what's your house payment?

>> Um so we have insurance and taxes and all that um rolled into it. So it's $1,520 a month.

>> How many kids do you have?

>> We have uh two boys, seven and four.

>> Okay. All right. Well, $80,000 a year

with a $1,500 house payment. You should be able to make progress on this.

>> Okay. >> Substantial progress. So, >> I think the devil's in the details inside your every dollar budget.

>> And um you know, I don't know whether you're still going out to eat. I don't know if you're still going on vacation.

I don't know where the leak is in this.

>> Uh but you know what what I'm looking at

is $7,000, $8,000 a month. $7,000 and

some change a month, 1500

minus food, lights, water. Um, I I think

I can find $1,000 in there to put on these debts.

>> Are the car payments real high interest?

>> Um, I think one is about 9%. Um, the

other one I I Yeah, I can't remember what the other one is. I want to say it might be might be a little >> So, these car payments are 4 or 500 a piece, right? >> Yep. Uh 300 and like 195. So, they're not >> So, that's not that's not it. Okay.

you you seem to acknowledge there's there's some leaks somewhere. Where is this money going?

>> You know, I I I try to ask myself the same thing. Um I I I think the income might be a little off. Like I said, our my interior detailing business fluctuates quite a bit. It seems like on average, I mean, when I'm mapping it out, >> that's only $1,000, $1,200 a month.

>> Sure. >> If it if if it averages out. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Um so some months you make four, some make months you make nothing probably.

Okay. But still, that's not >> um I mean, you should be able to make it and make progress without the interior detailing. >> The interior detailing could all go towards this. Um so, yeah. I Are you

doing a detailed every dollar budget, you and your spouse sitting down and every dollar has a name before the month begins? >> We We don't. It's more so we we use it

to track Yeah. We use it to more so track our bills and make sure we're paying everything that we need to pay for every dollar. >> You've got to get around in front of the money instead of behind it. You can't look in the rearview mirror and say, "What happened?

>> It's too late. The money's gone." >> You have to tell it what to do before it leaves and then it will go to the correct things. >> That's what's that's where your leaks are is just in the chaos of the disorganization. And uh here's what here's how I know that from 30 years of doing this.

And all it is is the money is being it's more efficiently deployed. That's all it is. And so you have this sense of power,

the sense of empowerment. And the other thing they say is, "What have we been doing?

how where has all this money gone before they can't you know it's like it just disappeared and and this I've heard this from people doing the every dollar budget ever since we first built the app long time ago and it wasn't nearly as sophisticated and and didn't tell you what to do and help help you walk through the baby steps and everything else like it does now but back then but

I mean it just even when I was doing budgets with a yellow pad and you would just write down kind of like I just did in my head with your stuff just now you know you got $7,000 you got $15 1,00 and then we take off lights and water and a 195 car payment and a 350 car payment. I still got money. Where's the money going? And that's what you were saying.

And it's like everybody has that same reaction to their own budget when they do it. I feel like I got a raise because

I made my money behave. And that old John Maxwell saying starts to, you know, hit that emotion of a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

A budget is not a form of medieval tor to torture. They don't find you don't find it in the dungeon dungeon with the thumb screws. It's not there. Okay. And the stretch machine or whatever all that stuff, right? But um you know it it's not a form of medieval torture. It's simply you're doing it on purpose.

You're being proactive instead of reactive. And anytime you do that in any area of your life, it increases your dignity and lowers your anxiety. And I'll say this, in any area of your life, when you discover, oh my gosh, we've been eating out to the tune of $1,600 a month or this has never happened in my house, but you're buying so many bullets or guitar things that like we have this much like gummy bears. We have this much extra money.

>> There is a like an an order of things that happen. You feel ashamed. You feel super super excited.

days, the next 30 days happens and it's not fun at all. No, >> it feels like you just got 1,600 bucks.

You didn't. You located it, but now you have to actually not spend it on stuff.

And that's hard. And that's discipline.

>> I remember when we first started Financial Peace University with the videotapes a long time ago. I went visit one of the classes and this old country boy was in there and I said, >> "By the way, by the way, videotapes for you young folks, they used to take YouTube clips and put them on inside of plastic and then just you had it at your house." Okay, go ahead, Dave.

>> I stopped then. The small group, this old country boy was in there and he goes, "Yeah, I done figured out why we ain't got no retirement. We've been eating it." Yeah. 1,200 bucks a month on

restaurants. And that was a long time ago. I never heard anybody spend $1,200 on a restaurant, but uh man, it was wild. Yeah. But yeah, we ain't got no retirement cuz we've been eating it.

>> Uh that and everybody cracked up and they all could relate, you know. That's exactly what it was. Or bullets or whatever it is. You know, it's you know, it could happen.

And firearms, they they could they could they could cause issues. >> But expect to be embarrassed like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I've been spending this." Expect to be like, "Yeah, we're rich." You're not. and expect the next 30 to 60 days to be miserable because then you have to change your behavior. If you've been eating out three times a week, you have to figure out how to eat at home.

watch a news channel that makes you uncomfortable and you think buying bullets is going to solve that discomfort, I don't know anybody that that does that for. You're going to have to just sit in the discomfort. And if you have latent fantasies of being a rock star and you're in your late 40s and you haven't realized it's not going to happen yet, Dave, I'm talking to myself here. Don't buy that thing cuz it's not going to help.

It's not going to help. >> It's not the the guitar is not the problem. >> It's not I I'm the problem.

>> As the great philosopher Taylor Swift once said.

>> Oh, that's we'll just end on that.

[Music]

statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

Did you know that twothirds of Americans die without a will? That's 70% of you.

That's dumb.

That's just straight up dumb. You're going to leave the family behind.

They're not going to know what's going on. You're going to increase your court costs through the roof. And then the government is going to tell you tell your family what's going to happen.

instead of you doing it just because you wouldn't sit down, well, I might die.

You're going to die. We've done research. 100% of you are going to die.

It's just a matter of when and you don't know when. So, get your will done if you're over 18 years old. Get it done.

If you want to ch We want to challenge you to create your will in August and in less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you at ramseyolutions.com/willquiz.

It's free. You can click the link in the show notes. It's Willquiz.

Willsquiz.

ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz.

And if you do find out an online will fits your situation, you can get 25% off if you do this in August by using the promo code will month. One word, no spaces. Will month. This is the month you do your will right now. And if

you've moved states, your will is invalid.

you need a new will. Probate law is not

federal law. It is state law. And state laws are different from stateto state.

Particularly if you leave a state like California or Texas or Louisiana. All

three of those have weird laws.

And so Texas is a republic. It thinks it's its own country still. It has weird laws. California, well, enough said. And

uh Louisiana's got a lot of French stuff woven into their law where most of the other law is English-based. And so it's different. And so yeah, you're going to you need a different you need a will when you move. If you get a if you have something change in your life, a divorce, a death, you need to do your will again and update it. And so get

your stuff done, people. It changes everything when you do.

All right. Marcus is up next. Marcus is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey, Marcus.

How are you?

>> A lot better than I deserve. Dave, how are you? >> The same, sir. How can I help?

>> Um, Dave, I'm in my uh my third year of

bankruptcy.

Um, and uh it's it's been pretty rough.

Um, about two months ago, my uh the

mother of my children, she decided to do some drinking and driving and um she almost killed herself and my young children. Uh my twins are four years old and I recently gained full custody due to the circumstances of that and uh it's

been pretty rough, man. Um I've depleted my emergency fund and my back is pretty

much up against the wall and um I'm

calling because I've been weighing the option of selling my home um and just renting because uh you know 10% interest

rate with the bank royalty is just hard.

I don't know if I can do two more years of it. I'm on a 5-year term and um I

made about 60,000 last year and bankruptcy took 30 of that. So I'm

pretty much uh >> So how much debt is in your chapter 13?

>> Uh it was 70,000

um 74 to be exact. Um I called my

mortgage company and they let me know that 61 um is what's owed on the house.

>> The the house is in the chapter 13.

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I was facing foreclosure and that is why I filed chapter 13.

>> I see. Okay. And so you owe the whole

thing is the house. You don't have any other debt in the chapter 13.

>> I had about uh I believe 25 to 3,000 in

consumer debt. Um >> but it's almost all the house in other words. >> That's correct. Yes. >> So the house is the problem. So the house might be the solution mathematically. I got you. I'm catching on. So, you owe like how much on the house today?

>> Uh, they gave me a payoff of 61.

>> What is it worth? >> They said I owed >> uh the tax or the property tax said

about 100. >> No, that's not what I asked. I asked what it's really worth. What are you going to put it on the market for? Tax tax appraisal is not appraisal.

>> Yes, sir. I understand. Um, >> what do you think the house is actually worth if we put a sign in the yard?

>> You have any idea? >> 200. >> Okay. >> 195 to 200. >> Okay. Yeah. All right. So, you put 140 in your pocket and you're free.

>> So, you would sell? >> I'm just asking. I'm making sure I understand. This is exactly what you're saying. Correct. >> Yes, sir. That That is the option I'm weighing. Yes, sir. >> And you got four-year-old twins full-time. >> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Who's taking care of them while you're at work?

>> Uh, I've been lucky enough to get some daycare vouchers, so they're in a daycare. And my mom's helping with pickup and drop offs. >> Okay. What do you do for a living, sir?

I'm a delivery driver um for a company

here in uh Raleigh. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 38 years old. >> Okay. Wow.

Uh okay. What I don't want to do and I'm thinking this reason I'm pausing and flipping around. I want to make sure I get all the answers to these details because what I don't want to do is you you obviously need some relief.

your language and the way you described the situation and everything coming into the early in the call when you first got on the line. Um, I mean, you're you you

need some relief and I don't want to give you relief at in return for doing something dumb. I mean, if it feels good today, but it sucks as a five-year decision, I don't want to do that one. Okay? But I don't see a downside of selling this house right now. Um, as long as you say,

"Okay, the plan is I'm going to sell the house. I'm going to be free. I'm going to relax for a little bit, breathe a

little bit, get out from under the bankruptcy." It was not a blessing. It would probably just sold it to stop the foreclosure rather than gone into bankruptcy to stop the foreclosure would have been the plan. And um then uh and then but but

what I want to on the back side of that is not just my my only strategy doesn't need to be get away from the pain. My strategy needs to get away from the pain so that I can go do A, B, and C to

prosper.

>> Yes, sir. >> So yeah, I I'm with you. Let's get away from the pain. Uh but I want you to decide what are you going to do with 140,000?

So, um I spoke with my bank rosy attorney and um I still have a meeting with them, but they informed me that um

after I guess I I make the sale, the proceeds would go uh to the trustee. So,

um and I'm guessing that means that you know the the bankruptcy and everything will be clear. I'll be discharged of that >> and then they return the proceeds to you. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yes. Yes, sir. Do you know how how that process works? Is that like a 30-day thing or >> depends on your trustee? the bankruptcy trust chapter 13 trust is a local office

and uh if if Raleigh's chapter 13 is is is efficient, you'll get it inside of a month. Most of the chapter 13 trustees, I know several of them are excellent at what they do. They really run a good shop. The guy here in Nashville is he's

the best in the nation. He he actually leads a lot of the associations. He's a friend of mine and he runs an incredible shop. But most of the um most of them do

a good job. But just talk to the off chapter 13 trustee office about it. Say how long can I expect to get this? How long before and so forth because I need to go rent something and I don't have any money. >> Uh I I do have a fear of uh you know

finding something to rent with bankruptcy being on my history. Um do you think that's going to be a a big obstacle or um >> Well, you know, you've got 140,000 in your pocket so you probably can work that out with a deposit.

Okay. >> Or prepayment of rent. I'll prepay for 6 months and I'll give you a deposit if you're nervous about my 13. But I'm out of the 13. I got no bills.

>> Exactly. No debt. I just >> I have zero debt and I'm out of the 13 and the stuff that caused it is all in the rearview mirror and I have $140,000 in my pocket. If you wanted to rent from me and I was the landlord and I we have houses we rent, I would rent to that guy.

>> Yeah. >> But you sound like a guy that needs relief. >> Yeah. And then ask yourself, does 48-year-old Marcus want to be a delivery driver? And if this is the time to go get retoled and get some skills or to begin thinking about what are we going to do next, man, this is your moment.

>> Yeah. If you use $10,000 to go to code school and you decided you were going to be a code a software engineer next, that'd be a good use of some of the money or whatever. If you use some of the money to retool and get yourself to the thing where you go to something other than the get by up.

[Music]

He [Music] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the popular Dr. John Deloney Show on Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Haley

is with us in York, Pennsylvania. Hi Haley, how are you?

>> Hi, doing well. Thank you for having me.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So my question is basically when is the time to use your emergency fund

>> right? Well, so the the question came from my husband and I had a surprise tax

bill. Um, it was about $3,500.

And the question then came, do we pay from our emergency fund that's fully funded? We don't have any debt or do we

take it from we have a kind of a fund going to make a renovation on our house.

So, he wanted to take it from that fund because he didn't want to touch the emergency fund. But then I said, "Well, isn't that the point of an emergency fund to use it for unexpected expenses?"

So, >> just kind of wanted to get your opinions on. >> This is like Rocky Ford, Dave. >> So, did the uh um unex How do you have

an unexpected tax bill and have you fixed the problem that caused that?

>> Yeah. So, I think what happened is it's because of all of the COVID child tax credits um that then they took away that we didn't realize we've had someone doing our taxes and yeah, we've never had to pay and we haven't done anything differently. So, that was the only thing that we could guess. So, he made sure to look with his

>> Okay. If I get a surprise 3500, I'm not guessing. I'm going to know.

Sure. >> Like I'm going to know or I'm going to fire somebody and get somebody that knows.

>> Okay. So that because here's the problem. It happens again if you don't know what caused it >> and you don't make an adjustment.

>> Agreed. >> Right. >> Yes. >> Okay. So it's not sustainable. We got to we got to fix that. Um >> I can tell you what Dave and Sharon would do. >> We would take it out of the renovation money. >> So would the Delonies. >> Okay.

>> Because >> Okay. because we t we touch the emergency fund last. If we have excess savings somewhere else for something else that uh is not immediate, you're saving up to do a renovation and the tax problem just just delayed your renovation a little bit.

And that that's what it is cuz you know it's otherwise you're going to have to delay the renovation anyway because you're not finished saving for it and you'd have to put the money back in the emergency fund before you restarted doing the emer before you restarted saving into the uh

the renovation fund. And so you'd have to stop everything till you got your emergency fund put back. And that doesn't I don't want to do all that. So, no, it's just let's just sidestep that and go straight into it and take the money out of there.

>> I Dave, I'm kind of just stuck on, oh, we got a surprise bill. Let's just pay it. I mean, I'd go see another tax person. I'd want someone to walk me through exactly what just happened.

Especially if you've never had that happen previously. >> Generally, taxes piss me off. Surprise taxes double piss me off.

>> Yeah. I saw the building, the roof came off one time and they were like, they've got a surprise tax bill. That's just what happened. But but again like it's one of those um I had that this month like our electric bill went way way up

and it was easy just to go well that stinks and like I want to stop the let's figure out what just happened so that doesn't happen again. >> Exactly.

There's something running issue. Yeah.

>> Some kind of a thing going on. Yeah.

That's Yeah. Let's get let's source the problem and and nip it. >> Yeah. >> Nip it in the bud. Pat is in Michigan.

And hey Pat, how are you?

>> Fine. I'm good, thank you.

>> How can we help?

>> Well, um, my husband and I are in our late 70s and we're afraid we're going to outlive

our savings.

>> How much money have you got?

>> Well, we got about 30,000 in savings and about 190 in CDs.

>> Okay. >> Or 401k money market. All right. Do you

know when you're going to die yet?

>> Whenever the Lord decides to take us.

>> Uh I'm turning 65, so I'm still trying

to figure that out myself, kiddo.

>> All right. So, um, how much of the savings are you using to live? In other words, how much overbudget are you?

>> We're about $500 over budget every

month. That's $6,000 a year.

>> Right. Right.

>> You have $190,000.

Dividing 6,000 into that, I don't think you're going to run out of money.

>> Okay. >> If you stay at this budget, >> what what what is your income? Social Security and what else?

>> Um, just a minute. Let me grab my

information here. >> That's okay. No, I mean, where what are your sources of income? Okay. Our earnings are is social security and two

small pensions of $5,023

a month. >> That's your total budget a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you're and you're spending 500 more than that on 190,000. Now, is the

190,000? You said it's in CDs.

>> Some of it's in CDs and about 80,000 in

the money market from our 401k or IRA,

whatever it is.

Okay. All right. And so that's making you say $6,000 a year in interest

between the two, isn't it?

>> Uh, yeah, I think so.

>> Yeah. And that's about what you're overspending.

>> Okay. >> So, if the 200,000 the 190 grows by 3%.

That's approximately, it's not quite $6,000 a year. And if you use that

interest to supplement and you don't touch the 190, >> the goose that's laying those little golden eggs is going to sit there and lay forever and you'll never run out of money. Now, if you keep cranking up and

5 years from now you're spending $8,000 a month more or eight or or $2,000 or $3,000 a month more than you make got coming in, you could run into a problem that way.

>> Okay? But if you stay right where you are mathematically, you're not going to run out of money. Does that make sense?

>> Yes. I also want to ask you, we have a

car payment of $220

a month. >> What's the balance on the car?

>> Five,000.

Should we pay that off or?

>> Yeah. You said you had 30,000 in savings, right? >> Right. >> Yeah. Take 5,000 of that money and pay it off today.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I already feel better.

Okay. You like paying off debt. I know.

>> Yeah. And I like people being able to live on what they make cuz we just reduced your uh 500 to 200 because we

got or 300 because you got rid of a $200 car payment. So now you're only 300 over budget. Tada. Isn't this magical? Hey,

thank you for calling in, kiddo.

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

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[Music]

is in Texas. Hi Kira. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for having me.

>> Sure. Um, I have a question about my

19-year-old son. He decided that college

is not for him. So, he's not going to go back in the fall. We told him that he had to get a job. We wanted him to get one within a month. It's almost been three months, but he's finally working at Walmart part-time, $14 an hour. and he also receives about

$10,000 a year in dividends that he gets

in four payments.

So, um he's very bad with money. Like

his dividend rolls around and there's zero in his bank account, he has to borrow gas money. Um like my main

question is is what would be the best course to take to like kind of open his

eyes to I'm not spending my money

wisely. I should be doing this and this.

>> What What happened eight years ago when you were going to teach him work ethic and you didn't?

>> We tried. I feel like we tried. Um,

we're pretty good with money. We tried

to teach them that. We don't go out to eat very often. Like all through their growing up, we don't go out to eat. And I don't know if that's like the main thing. Like he eats out all the time.

when he was in college, he said, "No, he doesn't work extra." >> That's what the main thing is. He doesn't work.

>> Walmart at $14 an hour is what 16 year olds do.

Not grown men.

>> Where is he? Where's he living?

>> Uh, we're in Texas.

>> No. Where does he live? In her house.

>> He's with us. Yes.

>> And And >> And we pay >> I'm telling you this. >> We pay everything. >> Cuz I love you. But that's the problem.

He he he can't learn something that Let me put it this way. What he's doing, his behavior makes perfect sense in his world. He gets checks that fall from the sky every quarter. He has no rent. He

and he has a mom and dad that said, "You have to get a job." And he goes, "Okay, I'll work six hours a week and y'all pay

his his cell phone, you pay his insurance, you pay for everything." So, >> well, we that's one of the that's one of the things is he's supposed to pay his car insurance. He's supposed to do a lot of crap he doesn't do, but you don't make him do nothing, >> right? >> You don't take it away.

>> And the only way this changes, literally the only way this changes, I've worked with this age group my entire career.

The only way this changes is if you all sit down and you and your husband come to an agreement that you're going to weather the storm because hell's coming and you're going to sit down and say, "At the end of this month, you're out >> or two months or whatever." >> Right. Part of the problem with that is is he would move in with his bomb.

>> Okay. Well, that's good. >> And she she kind of coddles him.

>> That's funny. >> Kind of.

>> No. Wait a minute. Honey, you got the coddling thing down. Okay.

>> Everybody's cuddling. >> You can't You can't hand that off to her. You got that down to a science.

>> Everyone is. >> This kid, this kid has coddling from every direction. He's just a coddler.

>> I mean, he was in college for a year.

So, this >> Honey, the kid's got to move out. Yeah, I >> mean, I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore. >> You know, you you all you can talk about is the stuff he doesn't do. He has no problems. Your job is to help him have some problems. >> That's it. That's exactly right.

>> He doesn't have there's no reason for him to change his behavior. >> Or think think about it this way. His life is a weight room. And every time he gets under the bar to start lifting weights to get stronger, to deal with life, one of the parents, you or his

mother and her whoever she's with, run in there and take all the weight off the bar. And so now you've got a kid who's 19 who has never lifted the bar in his life cuz each parent keeps running there saying, "I don't want to be the bad one. You don't want to be the bad one." And now you got a 19-year-old that literally does not know how to lift anything heavy. And so it's it's abuse.

y'all are robbing this young man. And I get the pickle you're in. The moment you say, "Hey, you got to get out." He's going to go, "Okay, I'll just go over here." >> Then that's fine. You can't that you can't control that. >> But you can control your part in the equation. Quit trying to control his part. >> That's right. >> You can't control his part of the equation. Okay. This is a kid who thinks going to class is hard work. That's

funny. >> Or six hours a week is hard.

>> Yeah. I'm now I've got a job part-time.

He's smoking a lot of pot.

A lot. Yeah. There's no ambition

anywhere in this guy. >> Well, and man,

>> here's the thing, Dave. Like,

I heard somebody say this about a year ago, and man, it has been a like a knife

right in my chest cuz he's right. And he said, "I don't want to hear another person say quote unquote, these kids these days because it's not the kids

haven't changed. It's the adults in their lives who have changed who are not expecting, not giving these young people, especially 17, 18, 19, and 20 year olds the gift of experiencing hard

challenges and overcoming those challenges so they can feel a sense of confidence to go do the next thing. He should have had a part-time job when he was 15 or 14 so that he could learn how

to do that so he could have the privilege of having a full-time job when he's 19 or 20. Drop out of college, fine, but you got to go be a part of the workforce. Workforce is hard, right? But he's been robbed every step of the way by adults in his life. They can't get along. Can't be unified. And here you go. This is what we get >> for his own good. >> Golly, the only thing we're unified on is coddling. >> That's it. or using him to outparent the

other parent now that we're divorced or whatever the mess is.

>> But adults need to come together on behalf of these young people and say we're robbing them of the experiences

that life's going to throw and hit them right in the mouth with. And you know the thing that there's a couple of things I always go back to in remembering all this is teach your kids to do hard things. >> Yes. And Andrew Andrews talks about you're not raising kids to be great kids. You're raising kids to become great adults.

And if you're doing that then that involves teaching them adult skills right age appropriately with increasing intensity so that when they are age appropriate they are able to leave the nest and the mother eagle the nest is

filled with down but it is a nest built with thorns >> and then as the baby eagles grow she

begins to pull the down out of the nest and the thorns begin to stick them >> and it becomes increasingly uncomfortable. able to stay in the nest if you are a baby eagle until you finally stand up on the edge of the nest and fall out and spread your wings and

fly >> sore, dude. Yeah, >> cuz an eagle that doesn't leave the nest is eventually known as a turkey. And so this is how this works. So yeah, you you make it increasingly uncomfortable to live there. Um because it is good for your child development. People will tell you it is good for your dignity to pay your own light bill and buy your own milk and clean your own clothes

instead of your mommy doing it. It's just good for your development. And um I've watched it with my three as they grew up and left the nest and didn't have to. We weren't mad at them. There wasn't any anger. There wasn't anything.

But just when they quit living under our roof and they had to do their own stuff, they walk different. >> Yeah, they're right. They talk different. >> They carry themselves differently.

>> And it's you're doing them no favor delaying their development.

>> And this kid, he needs some hard work.

>> Yeah. >> I I want some problems for him. I want him to have some problems to solve. He's had no problems in a long time. And so, yeah, desperately needs trouble. And by the way, getting a neighbor, if you got young kids, getting a neighbor that will let your nine-year-old come over and sweep the front porch for a dollar.

Those kind of things are amazing at, and we're not talking about sweat shops. I'm not talking about like you got to pull like you do eight hour days. That's not what I'm talking about at all. But letting your kid mow the yard, letting your kid go out and do some things, letting letting them take um feedback from a neighbor that you trust or from somebody at your church that you trust.

Hey, you did a good job here, but you missed this corner right here. It builds dignity and character. And I'm telling

you, man, you got kids that just walk differently when they know how to work.

>> The one that always kills me on that was I was cutting grass. I was 12 years old.

my neighbor and I have no idea. He was the nicest man, but his nickname was Slugger.

Slugger Carneahan. I cut his grass for $3. And he came out there with one of these little fork things. He goes, "Quit

cutting the weeds. Use this and dig the weeds out. When you cut the weeds, you spread the weeds and I get more weeds." And he walked around and made me go over his whole yard and dig them out. Wore me out. 12 years old, man. Three bucks.

>> Yeah. $3, man. and his name's Slugger.

So you don't know you you got to do it.

I mean, it's like it's not an option.

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Julie's in Kansas City. Hi Julie, how are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

Um my question is um about preparing um

financially for uh disability in my

future. Um and it will be before typical retirement age. Um I'm 45 right now. Um,

I have a degenerative disease that'll um

I will probably be wheelchair bound uh within 10 years.

>> What do you got? Huh? >> Um um multiple sclerosis.

>> Yeah, I was thinking. Okay.

>> Um so it causes me a lot of nervous system problems and I work full-time right now with accommodation. Mhm.

>> Um but uh in the conversation with my doctors, it has been about um

it's been about, you know, how to plan

um quality of life, right? Um >> good. Okay.

>> And you already, I'm sure, because of the diagnosis, know a lot more about this than I do. the um I've had several

experiences with customers over the years and friends um uh and the

fatigue and stress with one of my

friends uh seems to accelerate her

symptoms.

>> Yes, that is very uh true for me as

well. >> Okay. And so anything you can do to lower that. And in her case, they gave her the same prognosis. That was 20 years ago and she's still walking around fine. Not fine, she's got MS, but she's not wheelchair bound. So, but she's managed, she's really, really managed the fatigue and the stress. And I think that's part of her >> uh doing so well. So, back to your

question, how do you get ready for this from a financial perspective? What do you make?

Um I I teach at in higher ed. I am I am

at 92 uh right now and that's with teaching overload and teaching summer classes. >> And I'm assuming you're single.

>> I am I am divorced a year ago. Okay.

After 24 years. >> Okay. >> And um so you make 92. And how much money do you have in your nest egg today?

>> Um so the divorce was quite messy. It was there was a lot of financial issues.

um behind the scenes that I didn't know about when everything started. So, after

everything was said and done, um I am no

longer I don't have any commercial credit card debt. I have about $50,000

is in retirement and I'm because I of

the particular institution I teach at, I'm part of the um public school teacher pension. So, uh 15% of my paycheck goes

into teacher pension.

Um, I never see that money. Um,

>> first thing I want to do then is I want to investigate um >> at at the point that you were declared disabled, what does the pension look like?

>> Do you know that already?

>> Um, yes. When I when I ran that, there's an option for a lump sum that is about 75,000 and then that would be 2,200 a

month after that lump sum or altogether

if I don't do the lump sum, it's about 26 a month.

>> Okay. And that's 10 years from today.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, you're already doing your research. Well done. That's good. That's good information to have.

>> I'm a I'm I would rather know

>> Yeah. Yeah. what what could happen even if it's very very bad. >> Okay. And you got $50,000 as well in a

retirement. Do you have any debt?

>> No debt. Um my car is paid off. Um I am renting right now.

>> Um the marital home was sold and that covered um the a large portion of the

commercial debt that he had run up.

>> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. And so um

All right. Well, the the math answer to

the equation, and you already knew this before you called me, but I'll just say it out loud again, is

if this occurs 10 years from today, the

lower your expenses are and the higher your nest egg is, the easier the process

is going to be financially. Okay, no kidding, Dave. I already knew that.

Okay, so the point being, stay out of debt. You probably do get into a house,

something modest.

And uh it would be really cool if you could get it paid off

>> because that lowers your expenses and increases your sustainability mathematically. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And because you got the biggest item in your budget line item is housing. It always is. And so if you got a zero there or you only got property taxes and insurance there because it's paid off, then you've got a real sustainable

situation.

and you know the the 2400 and the money

you can make off of the 50,000 and the 75,000 by the way that 50,000 by then by

the time this all happens will be uh 200,000 >> okay >> if it's invested in good mutual funds and then yes I would take the lump sum if this occurs the 75 if that's the actual number that it happens and every way everything goes down and I'm going to roll that into an IRA and invest that

in good mutual funds that will give you a better rate of return than the pension will, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yes. If if I could choose not to participate in the pension, I would >> Yeah. But but I'm just saying when you get to the point that you are declared disabled or you get to the point that you're retired and they offer you a lump sum on a pension, always take it.

>> Okay? >> And always take it. It's take as much as they'll let you take and then roll that because it'll create more money for you than it will if it's left there. That's the bottom line. >> Okay? And when you die, the pension dies with you and the money that's in your investment accounts does not die with you. It goes to your heirs.

>> So, um, you know, that kind of thing.

But anyway, >> so if I you have done such a good job

analyzing all this stuff and you're such a detailed person, you get peace from the knowledge. I can tell by talking to you. And and so I'm if I'm you, I'm going to run some spreadsheet stuff out into the future and go, "Okay, I'm if I get a house, I'm going to sit down with my Smart Vtor Pro, start talking about investing this 50K in some good mutual funds." So it will double about every 5 to seven years, something like that. And

um >> that that it should if it's making 10, 11, 12%, that's what how often it's going to double. And so that's how I'm getting to 200 on this. And um and of

course the 10 years is not set. Could be eight, could be 18, >> could be never.

>> And the the more of a plan you have, you

get peace from that um the more I think

that helps your prognosis, but I'm not a medical doctor.

>> Yeah.

One of the difficulties over the last two years with the divorce has been like it really just I had a lot of disease progression. >> Yes. And then also just keep get trying to get my just like my cortisol and all those stress things down. Um, >> and Julie, let's I'm going to change a word. >> Can we change one word?

>> Yeah, >> let's change the word progression

>> to Yeah. flare up

because major traumatic moments, major traumatic seasons does exacerbate MS

symptoms, right?

>> Mhm. Maybe it did push it down the track a little bit >> or maybe it was a flare up and it goes back. >> Yeah. So, here here's a question I want you to take to your doctor. Okay.

>> What must be true for me to push this thing off seven years?

>> Okay. >> Excuse me. I was coughing.

>> What must be true? So, they said about 10 years. All right. Cool. Let's make a 15-year plan.

What? exercise, counseling, therapy,

trauma work. What must I do now? It may

not work, but let's go out guns ablazing

on trying to push this thing down the track, not just resigning to the fact that it's 10 years and I'm wheelchair bound forever. And by the way, you're in a great job where if you are wheelbound wheelchair bound, you can still teach.

You can still be involved with students at some level. Um, but let's see if we could if a if a doctor will make a plan with you and see what would happen.

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[Music]

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>> Today's question comes from Corey in Indiana. Corey writes, "My mother-in-law just died and left $75,000 to my wife. I

told my wife to use the money to pay off our debts, and she responded by asking, "How dare you think of a way to spend my money?" I had to walk away from her at that point because she's been using my wages since we got married to pay off

her debts and have always been willing to sacrifice or delay things to wipe them out. We currently owe about 25,000 in credit card and unsecured loans, which would still leave her with $50,000. I've tried to explain to her that if we keep paying the loans from my paychecks, it's only going to keep us further from getting ahead in life. How do I get her to understand this concept?

Oh boy.

Um, y'all need to go to a marriage counselor ASAP because y'all are living separate, parallel lives. Y'all aren't living a united marriage. Y'all are co-managing a household. >> Sounds like two children. >> That's it. It's

my my money. It's like fouryear-olds in

kindergarten stealing a toy.

>> Yeah. Or like trading lunch like those are my Cheetos. Well, this is my baloney sandwich. Well, and then somebody gets a package of Twinkies and it's like, well, these are my like, man, y'all got y'all have bigger issues here.

Um because this is y'all's wages and this is y'all's debt and this is y'all's inheritance quite honestly. Um and until

you're able to come together in that way, y'all are going to continue to run parallel lives and have bigger and bigger challenges. >> Yeah. We are aligned on our desired

future and we are in agreement on how we

are going to get there and then we don't have a separate life.

Uh that's why when you walk down the aisle, the preacher says, "And now you are one." He didn't say, "And now you

are roommates with rights."

And that's how that works. >> Yeah. >> And and I still I still go back to it.

You guys hear me, if you listen to the show all the time, you hear me quote it all the time cuz I was just fascinated because I had never heard it. and a buddy of mine that is in an old school church traditional he pulled out the book of common prayer and showed me the marriage vows from the old days

>> and you know we all know or most people know or have heard in sickness and in health richer for poor you know until death do his part right we all kind of that's kind of the and that's part of but there was a another portion to it that somehow they quit using unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge

>> in other words and we are now one >> and um and when your mama dies, we are

going to get 75 grand. That's how that's going to work. And so it's a different thing. >> Cory, to answer your real question, how do I get her to understand this concept about paychecks? This isn't a math problem. And I think that's the challenge is y'all are both solving two different problems. She is solving a an

emotional relationship problem and you're running around trying to solve a math problem. And it it's it's kind of like trying to measure from here to over there using gallons. Both are good measurements, but it's the wrong measurement for the wrong application. This isn't a math problem.

This is a marriage problem. This is a togetherness problem. Y'all are both walking around thinking the other person's better or worse than each other. And that contempt that that somebody from on high is casting judgment or taking from the person down below you, it's just rotting out your marriage. And so y'all need to go sit with somebody and level out.

>> Yeah. We are in agreement on our goals

and we are going to combine all forces

to get to those goals. >> And we're going to be honest about all of our debts. >> Yeah. >> And we're going to work on them together. >> Yep. Exactly. Mike's with us in New Jersey. Hey, Mike. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Doing good. So I have a question. And I know you always preach the uh to pay off your mortgage if you can.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, I have I have 690,000 in a high

yield savings account. I have 233,000 in

a trading account, stock trading account. I have about 95,000 in an IRA.

And my wife has about 150,000 in a 401k

for her job. >> Wow. Way to go. >> Now, yeah. The the mortgage on the home

is 419 >> Mhm.

>> We don't have any debt, no credit card debt. Cars are paid off.

>> The only debt we have is the mortgage.

>> Mhm. >> The mortgage rate, it's a 30-year loan at 4%.

>> Mhm. >> We're 6 years in. >> Mhm.

>> We have a daughter and that's all.

>> I'm just trying to see if the wise decision is to pay the mortgage. If your

house was paid off, would you go borrow

money on it to put it into investments?

>> No. >> Why not? It's the same thing.

>> I don't know. I just wouldn't do that.

>> It's the same 4%. It's the same thing.

>> If I would borrow if you take money out of your investment and pay off the mortgage, it's the exact same mathematical transaction as to borrow on your home to put money into an investment. It's the opposite. We're just reverse engineering here.

>> Yeah. And I feel like also having the mortgage is is a good write off also.

>> No, it's not. >> Whereas if I didn't have it No.

>> No. It's a horrible ride off.

>> It's a horrible ride off. >> So you have 400,000 at what rate?

>> $419,000 at 4%. It's a 30-year loan

>> because you have $16,000 in interest a year. And you know what that saves you on taxes?

>> $6,000. So, you're giving the mortgage company 16,000 to keep from giving the government six. That's a dumb butt trade. >> Yeah. >> That's a write- off. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> You're trading dollars for 30 cents.

>> Yeah. >> Bad trade. >> Okay. >> That's how a write off works. You probably are actually itemizing. But only 8% of Americans itemize. And that's the only time you can do a write-off, but you got enough of an income.

>> I I get paid on a on a 1099 and my wife.

So, you're too >> Yeah. You're not You're not You're not But yeah, you can anyway to pay off the mortgage. >> There's number one, you would I'd pay off your mortgage today.

>> Number two, okay, >> here's why. I've never in 35 years

talked somebody into paying off their mortgage and them come back and go, "Wow, I hated it so much I went and got a new mortgage." >> Yeah. I've never in one time

>> tens of millions of listeners over 35 years that I've re never a single person has said Dave that's a dumb I felt so horrible not having a mortgage I went and got me a new one I've never heard that one time thinking of buying like an investment property tax and here's the other thing we we studied 10,000 millionaires not a single millionaire out of the 10,000 we talked to said I made my money by borrowing on my home and investing that money. None of them

said that's how I became a millionaire.

Not one. That strategy is mythology in

people's brains, but it never actually occurs in the real world when you get out in the wild. The number of millionaires that said, "I borrowed money on my house, invested it, and that's how I got rich," was precisely zero out of 10,000 of them that we

talked to. Zero did that. Also, Zero

said I got rich on my airline miles, too. So, there you go. You know, and so

on. And uh you know, this is what you're doing. So, anyway, if I were in you, you I just pay off my house. And if you hate it and I'm wrong, you can go get you a mortgage and you won't hate it.

You won't hate it. Yeah. There's something about you got that little girl at home. There's something Just telling you, man.

There's something about uh going to bed at night knowing they can't ever take that house away from that little girl. >> Yeah. It just changes everything. >> Got a place to live.

>> Yeah. Got a place to live. It changes everything.

don't quantify the weight associated with this in our

relationships um in our spirit physically.

The way you you manifest in your body the weight of debt. We none of us quantify any of that. All we do is go, "Well, the mortgage rates cheap." But dude, and when you can breathe deeper, you haven't got a back. >> I call it my sleep tax. If so what if it's 2% difference or three, I don't care. Oh, that's my sleep tax.

>> I get to sleep really well.

>> I'll pay that happily.

Nothing to think about that.

[Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, and host of the very popular Dr.

John Deloney show on Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today. Jesse's in Texas.

Hi, Jesse. How are you?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Uh, my question is, uh, I'm 27 years

old. Uh, I stay at home with my two young children right now. Uh, my wife works. Uh, we're in about $100,000 worth of debt and, um, I do like deliver food

on the evenings to make some extra money. But really, my question is, how do I balance working? because it's kind of when she comes in, I'm out the door. How we balance that marriage and family time with also trying to take care of this debt at the same time.

>> What does she make?

>> Um about 60.

>> Okay. And what kind of debt is the 100,000?

>> Uh $60,000 is student loans. Um about

$27,000 in a car and then the rest is credit card debt.

>> You need to sell a car. Yeah.

>> Yeah. We we've looked into that. I know right now we're like upside down. I think about 10 grand in it.

>> Yeah. You need a solid car.

>> Yeah. >> You got a car you can't afford. And you don't drive a $27,000 car with $60,000 income. >> Yeah.

>> Um and I don't I don't think you're really upside down 10K >> on 27. Um and you know, unless you

traded Did you trade negative equity from the other deal into it?

No, no, we just didn't put anything down on it. So, >> yeah. Okay. And dude, I I'm saying this

because I love you. I don't I don't know that you're in a position right now to be a full-time stay-at-home dad.

>> Yeah, we thought about that. It's just that a lot of the daycarees in this area, we're looking between two and 3K.

And that's probably about what I would be able to bring in a month.

>> Why is Why is that?

>> Um I just That's before we had the first

baby. Um, >> no, not the dayare costs. I know daycare costs are just are are breaking people's backs all over the country. I get that. I'm talking about why do you think you could only make $2,000 a month?

>> I don't buy that. >> Um, I mean, yeah, I mean, that's just what I was before before I stopped working. Yeah, I was I was bringing about 24,400. Um, which would be the cost of daycare. >> Um, I just worked into in a meat market in a grocery store.

>> That that's what I'm leaning on. Like if you made it your mission to like double

and triple serve your family for two years and get this debt out of control.

I I'm just telling you right now, y'all aren't going to be able to make it. Oh ow. And that kind of money and trying to get a home and raising two kids on 60K.

It's it's it's not a it's not a values question, dude. It's a math problem.

>> Yeah. And my and my wife is in the process of of trying to get she's been in the same industry for about 10 years. And so she's trying to make more money herself. That's kind of why we >> I know. I want to push on you. She's not on the phone. I want to push on you.

>> Yes, sir. >> Like, if if if you have capped yourself out and said, "The only thing I could ever do to serve my family is to work in a meat market and make $2,300 or $2,400

a month, then I'd want to spend some time with you over some nachos, man, and challenge that because I don't believe it. >> I think you're selling yourself way way short." And if that's the case, then for a season, I'm going to work at a meat market and I'm going to come home. I'm going to high-five my wife and kiss my kids and I'm going back out because for centuries men have left their home for years to serve and honor their families.

And that's what I got to do right now because we owe $100,000.

>> Yeah. And that's kind of weird because like right now I probably make $1,000 to $1,500 just um doing deliveries. Like when she comes in the door, I leave. And so we figured that with the cost of the daycare, you know, then we're looking at really I need to bring $3,500 in or something along those lines before we would break even on me having a job or like a full-time job, you know.

>> Yeah. Well, here's what John's saying.

The full-time job and you keep the delivery. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Every stinking night if that's what you got to do to get your self yourself out, get your butt out of this problem.

>> So, here's the thing. The point of the conversation is you seem to think there's a process by which you can avoid pain here.

>> There's going to be pain here.

>> You just should choose it instead of letting it choose you.

>> Yeah. The pain could be the pain could be the the fin the ongoing financial stress and the toll that that takes on your marriage and and you you don't do anything about it in the name of nurturing kids and in the name of uh I need to be home when my wife is home because I don't ever see her and that how do I have life balance? Well, you have life balance when you get your butt cleaned up because you made a mess.

That's when you have life balance. But right now, you're not going to have life balance because your life is out of balance. And I'm not saying this people can hear this as I'm shaming them. I'm not. I'm just telling the truth. Kids

will baste in the angst of a home that

is buried financially.

And so if you are staying at home and

your wife is making 60K and y'all have a

hundred grand in debt, that house is

going to be a stressful, chaotic place.

Period. It just is. because there's never going to be enough month at the end of your money ever. >> And the irony is the very thing you were trying to protect, you're cooking it.

>> Yeah. You they're going to baste in that stress and that anxiousness and that frustration and those the fights and

Yeah, dude. There's just a season when you have to say, I I got to get after it. >> I'm I'm going to strap on a tool belt and it's not coming off till I get this mess cleaned up. Get after it.

>> I want more than anything for families to be in a position to choose for somebody to stay home. I I I love that with all my guts, but y'all have a math problem that you got to solve, man.

>> Yep. And you know those kids, they like

to eat. So, there's that.

Uh, okay. Wendy's in Oregon. Hey, Wendy.

What's up? >> Hi there. Um, my husband and I have uh

three kids. Um, we raised identical twin boys and our older daughter who just got married to a great guy with an amazing family. And so what we we actually did financial peace years ago went through that program. So we had already had sorry about that.

We continued to tell the kids we will provide room and board for you when you go to college but we will not have any money for you for college. We're sorry. The option was mom got to stay home with the kids. So we were able to do that.

Um which means no college money which was something they were always clear about.

And now our boys have each chosen not to

go to college, but they're heading into trades, which is great. So, now we're at

the point where we're happy to have them still live here, but we're trying to determine what that looks like for them

paying us every month. And >> they just need to go get an apartment.

>> You think? Oh, I'm sure. Well, they do have some great friends and they love to go get >> Oh, I love my kids, too. But they need to go get an apartment.

>> Yeah. >> Matter of fact, the two boys could do it together cuz they're both going in the trades. They're twins. They're used to living together. They can split expenses and just go be roommates. That'd be awesome. >> And Yeah. And then our house is clean all the time. >> Yeah. And they can come over and visit.

You can have dinner. >> And Wendy, can I tell you something?

It's okay that you don't want them to live there. You're still a good mom.

>> It's okay that you want them to be gone.

the hurricane that is 18-y old boy. Like it you're not a bad mom, but I think Dave's right. I'd much rather you say, "Hey guys, we're gonna pay your first two months. Y'all get out." Um, yeah. At

least that's what I would do if I was in your case. >> Yeah. And if you're going into the trades, better be working, son. Got to pay rent. Ch. That's what you chose.

Strap on the tool belt. Seems to be a theme.

[Music]

Heat. Hey, Heat.

[Music]

Brandon's in Michigan. Hey Brandon, how are you? >> Hey Dave, hey John, how are you both today? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Good. Uh, first off, thank you both for your time. Uh, Dave, thank you for again for giving me a couple minutes on the show. I'll try to be conscious of the time, but uh, I do need a quick minute to just uh, provide us some information.

>> Okay, >> so first things first, I'm 27 years old.

I dated and married my high school sweetheart, and we've been together for six years now. Uh we got a couple beautiful boys at home and

a few years ago my wife and I we were renting and we were working growing our family and we were able to put money aside at the time and you know pay down our debt to got some student loan debt, our cars. The situation we found ourselves in a year and a half ago was our our middle child uh passed away and it was Sudsy and it was unexpected and unexplained. Um, and obviously we weren't prepared for it and we weren't financially prepared for it. >> How old How old was your baby?

>> He was a year and a half old. >> Year and a half. >> Thanks. >> And you said it was it was Sids or what' you say it was? >> It's It's Sud. It's like Sids but for

non-infant. A little bit older. >> Oh, I got you. Okay, I'm so sorry.

>> Oh my gosh. What was your name?

>> Thank you guys. His name was Carter.

>> Carter. I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. Thank you guys. Um anyway, so

here's ultimately my question. Uh one of

the outcomes of his loss was I needed to

get my family out of the house. U my wife held on to memories in each room and it was haunting her. So I needed to get her out of the house and we ended up purchasing a home >> and it was at a time when we really weren't ready to be purchasing a home.

But >> here we are now a year later.

>> Um so ultimately this is my question.

I'm I'm 27 years old. I'm trying to lead my wife. I'm trying to raise my other sons the best I can. My wife and I, we want to continue to be fruitful and to multiply and to grow our family. But what I'm finding is even after allocating every single dollar of income I bring in, it's we find that expenses

continue to go up and we keep spinning our wheels. So my question is, >> how much is your house payment? How much is your house payment? Honey, >> mortgage mortgage is about two grand. uh not including >> what's your what's your take on monthly >> 97 uh monthly after taxes and um

benefits it's about 50 uh 5750 a month

>> okay what what benefits are coming out of your check >> I don't put anything away for retirement right now it's just basically uh everything medical dental insurance >> gotcha and you've got uh and you've got debt other than the home >> yes sir um we've got about 3,000 left.

Uh we only have one working car right now and it's got about 3,000 left on it.

Um and I have 18,000 in student loans and then of course there's the mortgage.

>> Mhm. >> So >> what's wrong with the other car?

>> Uh we don't owe anything on it. It's just it's old. The alternator went out I don't know maybe eight months ago. And like I said, we're we're kind of spinning our wheels. I work from home so it's not really needed right now. So we we haven't put the money back into it to get it up and running. kind >> What's it worth if you did get it up and running?

>> It's It's honestly a salvage title. Um

it I after putting money into it, maybe I could sell it for three, four grand, but Okay. >> I'd have to deduct whatever expenses go back into it. So, >> yeah. Well, an alternator an alternator is not three grand.

>> Sure. No. Yeah, I understand. >> You find a buddy that turns a wrench and go put an alternator on the thing, get it sold, and that'll pay off some of your debt. That's thing that's thing one. But you've got bigger issues than that. >> Um, >> sure.

>> And again, we're we're not drowning, Dave. Um, >> well, you've had you've had a tragedy,

honey. I've had a trauma.

>> Sure. And so you guys are hurting and

it's just hard to do um efficient

mathematics and financial management >> when your heart is broken.

>> It takes a minute.

>> So give yourself permission to spend a little.

>> Okay. >> It may take a minute for the family to get back up. It should take a minute if you're not whacked. >> And it is. It is. I mean, it takes a little while for y'all to >> get up. I I don't disagree. Maybe you shouldn't have bought this house, but the house's not killing you.

>> It's not It's a little high, but it's not it's not it's not disturbing me horribly, but I don't think you're going to make tremendous leaps forward

>> the year after you lose a one and a halfyear-old.

>> Sure. >> What's the state of What's the state of your wife? How's she doing?

>> We've we've grown a lot the last year and a half. Um, and I'm sure you guys

have your own experiences with grief. It just comes and goes.

>> I'm at a point where I can >> How's your wife doing, Brandon?

>> Not good, Dave. >> Yeah, >> but we're we're okay. And you know, >> Hold on, Brandon. Brandon. Brandon. Brandon, you keep saying we're okay.

You're not.

>> Okay. >> And that's And that's okay.

>> Yeah. It's okay to not be all right, but I want you to own it. Okay.

>> It's And let me put it this way. It's exhausting to try to continually be wallpapering over this hurt inside your

house, right?

>> Okay. >> Yeah. So, here's the thing. If you don't make any financial progress for the next

two years, 18 months, one year, but the

two of you are able to move through some

of this and get some healing during that

time, that's a victory.

>> Okay. >> I don't think you're going to do both at the same time.

>> Do you? >> Okay. >> Yeah. Here's the here's the way I usually when I sit down with a couple who's been exactly where you are, here's what I always tell them. The marriage and the life that y'all had is over now.

>> It's over. And so the same goals, the same timelines, the same trajectories, the same career goals, everything changes after that.

And so the challenge is will we choose each other to stay married? And child loss is uh

one of the big indicators of marriages that really really struggle because people grieve differently.

>> Yeah. >> And y'all have probably experienced I can't believe you're already moving on and I can't believe you're still still can't get out of bed. Like y'all have probably grieved at different different trajectories because that's what grief is. It's just different for everybody.

And so we're going to decide we're going to rebuild a life together and it's going to be really tough out of the gate. And so, like Dave said, dude, staying staying square at staying square for the next 24 months is a huge win.

>> It's just recognizing we got a new marriage. We got a new house. We have a new everything. And we wanted five kids.

Well, right now, we might still have five kids, but they're going to be a bigger gap between them. And there's a six-year gap between my son and my daughter. Not how we drew it up. We had some losses along the way. That's what we got. And right now, our house is pretty magical place. And there was a lot of pain to get here.

>> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. >> What's important for me is that you and your wife a year into this, you all go sit with somebody.

>> Mhm. >> And y'all say, "Okay, we have been in the black hole for a year, rightfully so. We're going to stay in a dark place

for a while, but we're going to keep the lights on. We're going to keep going. We're going to keep grinding." What does it look like to begin to not heal, but

what does it look like to start turning some light switches on? What does that feel like? What is the pain associated with that? And what does that look like to start raising the the blinds a little bit? >> Yeah. That's that's with a good therapist. >> Yeah. So, sitting with a professional that will walk with you. >> Yeah. >> And you should feel a little bit crazy.

You should feel a little bit stuck. You should feel a little bit like, why? All that stuff is right and good. Um, but yeah, Dave, you nailed it. like give yourself some grace during this season, man. You are a good husband and you're an incredible father and you are keeping the lights onto that place and man, it's an honor to talk to you. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. If you can function perfectly in

the middle of a tragedy like that, you're a psychopath. >> Right. Right. Right.

Then I'd be worried about you. Yeah. If you're wondering what do we do and what day is it, that's right where you should be. >> Yeah.

Yeah. If if my brain's spinning out of my spinning out of control all the time and I you know I get distracted and suddenly waves catch a wave of grief catches me off guard and knocks me off balance. That would make you a normal human being. >> That's right.

And good and holy. That's right. >> Yeah. Because what you've been through is one of the most horrible things a human can experience.

>> Shouldn't be that way. >> Hate it for you, brother. >> I hate it. Yeah. Give yourself a little room. Get some help to walk through that. That's the best thing you can do for your money, oddly enough. But money is not our motivator in this conversation.

[Music]

[Music]

Buying or selling a home in this crazy market is something else. If you want to know what the facts are on US housing market trends, not what somebody's

dramabased opinion on tic tac is, if you

want to know what's really going on, just go over to ramiesolutions.com/market and we got it all there for you and you can click the link in the show notes if you want to. It'll drop you right in there. Teresa is going in Ohio. Hi

Teresa, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Dr. John. Thank you for having me. >> Sure. How can we help?

My question is both a financial and a moral one. Um, my parents are both approaching 80 years old and not in the best of health. My father is adamant

about a full-blown funeral and he's very

much against cremation, but they only thing they have prepped for is to buy the burial plots like 25, 30 years ago.

And they have nothing. They have no they live with a family member. So they have there's no assets that they own.

Um, they're both living off of social security. My dad on a disability social security that he's had since 1989.

And I guess just morally now that he's been in and out of a nursing home on a mild mild start to the dementia, I just

want to be prepared. I I'm I'm torn.

>> Oh, so you're torn because they're asking you to pay for the funeral.

>> Well, there's no other means to do so.

And I have siblings and I don't I've tried to talk to my dad cuz he is somewhat with us, you know, as far as conversation. And he just feels that uh

cremations are morally wrong and he

thinks that everything's been paid for and then my mom looks at me and says, "No, it's not." So, >> well, does somebody look at him and say, "It's not been paid for." >> We've tried. We've tried.

>> And he just said, "What? I don't care."

He's in in his mind he thinks it's all been taken care of because he has his plot. He'll tell you where it's located and what tree it's by and there's a lot more to that. And my sibling lost a wife about two three years ago now. And he said, you know, it was over 20ome,000 for the funeral. >> Well, that's not true. No, shouldn't be.

>> Yeah. It feels like you got it. It can be, but it doesn't have to be.

>> So, uh, what what do you guys make? What do you you and your husband? Are you married? Yes, I'm married. My husband and I are actually we're on our second round of um the Dave Ramsey plan and I during COVID

we fell off that plan, but we plan to be out of debt by uh November of this year and our home was paid off the first round. So, >> excellent. What's your household income?

>> Um we both make 75 a year

>> each. So, 150. >> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay, cool. So, um, you know what I

would do is I I I get the aggravation from you that this is dumped in your lap, so to speak.

>> Um, and I don't blame you for that emotion, but it's not 20 grand. Uh, I think if I'm you, I'm going to, uh, go down to the funeral home and go, "Hey, um, what is the cheapest casket and the

cheapest process?" And I think you're going to find, you know, five to seven. They sell caskets at Costco now.

>> Okay. I did not. >> They do and they're really cheap and they're nice. I looked at one the other day. Um, >> if there's somebody on the planet that's going to get a a casket at Costco, it's it's your one and only Dave Ramsey.

>> Oh man, I'm just George George would do it. >> George would do it, but he needs a smaller casket. Yeah. >> Well, he needs a little casket. >> That's a small little casket. Yeah. But the uh yeah, I I'm seriously I think you're going to budget this thing down.

It's not going to be a big old pile of money. And it it the actual math is not

going to be that aggravating, but the emotion of the aggravation is still going to be there until you turn it loose because it's not going to change.

It's not going away. Everything you've described is there's no out for this. Um

and the good news is you make 150 and you're almost out of debt. you'll be able to, you know, so five grand, seven grand or whatever, and you just go, "Okay, I'm just going to plan on taking $5,000 or $7,000 out of my emergency fund, uh, or out of my savings or something when he passes, and I'm going to >> put him in the, uh, the cheapest possible burial arrangement that is not

cremation." And um I would shop and you

know when you call a funeral home, go down there and talk to them and say, "I'm going to go to two or three funeral homes, so y'all better give me the deal because I'm I'm actually shopping price.

I'm pre-planning and this is all about price. So you better give me your cheapest one or you're not going to get this deal." >> Okay. >> And and tell me about you you mentioned them, but let's say the total bill is 7,000 bucks and we're making that number up. Who knows?

Why wouldn't you call your siblings and say, "Hey, everybody's going to pitch in 1,500 bucks on this deal." >> I I believe that two of them would financially be able to, but um one would not. So, I mean, >> and that's fine. I mean, >> say, "Okay, look, we're going to cover this and I'd like for everybody to put in if you can." >> Yeah. And here's the bill.

And and by the way, once you get this information nailed down and it's all pre-planned and you know exactly what it is because you're doing this while there's no emotion, you've not got a loss at this moment and so you're pre-planning it and so we're lit we're we're shopping it like we're buying a car or something and we're shop it's very calculated. Go ahead and once you get the place you go okay this place will do it for 5600 bucks or whatever and the number is and it may go up a little during the time if he lived 10 years or something.

expecting us to do this. I'm aggravated about it, but I've reconciled with that and I'm going to put in and I'd if you can put in your part of this, I'd appreciate it. Um I, you know, it it I

wish they had taken care of it, but they hadn't." >> Yeah. And just, you know, you can share that with them in whatever means you want to share, but I would give them the information and let them begin to process the emotion and the frustration and also have some time to prepare mathematically for it. >> That's it. And tell me about the one sibling that you think couldn't pay anything. Why not?

>> Um, there's more children in the home and they're younger.

>> Okay. There's like there's quite a difference. >> I would ask you to not take that from them.

>> Yeah. Give them the opportunity. give them, >> but I'd send it to everybody and let everybody choose.

>> If I found out my brother and my sister went behind my back and did something because they quote unquote thought I couldn't handle it, that would be hurtful. And now, it would be hard for me to say, "Hey, I can't do this, but I can do this." Um, and it's okay to say,

>> "Let me know if you can do your part or what part you can do." That's how I would leave it. And just leave it open-handed. And then you be prepared to write the whole check >> emotionally, >> okay? And it's not going to be that much. It's not as much as your aggravation. Your aggravation. Yeah.

Your aggravation is valid. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> It's just it's it's, you know, they should have done a better job. Dad gum, you know, >> and I want to prepare, you know, our kids and our grandkids for not obviously

going that direction. And I appreciate everything I've learned from you. Um, I did want to add that, you know, with my job, I've had a lot of stress, but I learned that, and I've seen it in the last eight months in paying down my debt, I don't have to be a slave to my income. >> Ah, >> I'm going to be able to to live and

breathe a little bit. >> Yeah. Breathe. Yeah. Get your breath back. Good for you. Proud for you.

That's cool. It's a good question and it's a valid question. Thanks. Thanks for calling in with that. you know, it is um make a will month. So, you know,

it's time. You know, here's the thing.

It is an act. We get these calls of this sort around death, around the estate,

around wills or not having a will or somebody arguing or being cut out of the will or whatever all the time. And it is an act of love to your family to

systematically like a nerd prepare

everything having to do with your last 90 days.

and you know, and you've got a will, you've got a full-blown uh, you know, estate plan, you've got everything, all all your financial information is in a location, a singular location where everyone knows where it is and they can find it. Um, and then it's just an it's just execute the existing plan flawlessly and there'll be

no problems and you you know, you've taken care. I I do not believe in prepaying for a funeral. That's ridiculous. The cost is silly.

you're better off to just put your money in a mutual fund. But it is smart to pre-plan it. And in this case, I would pre-plan it in detail. And by the way, it does feel gross to quote unquote shop.

I get that. And >> if they're a smart business, they will take advantage of you not wanting to shop and so they will inflate the prices. >> They do. >> So let people know, just like Dave said, hey, we're going door to door here.

We're going to run through a couple of of of homes here. um what does this cost? >> Dirty little secret is it's a huge margin. >> Huge margin.

Huge margin.

feels gross and do it anyway.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Galatians 1:10. Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings or of God? Or

am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Jordan Peterson said, "You cannot hit a target that you refuse to see. You cannot hit a target if you don't take aim." And I'll add, "If you don't pull the trigger." Some people rego, ready, aim,

aim, aim, aim, aim. Oh, shut up and

fire.

Seriously, that's Dave Ramsey, though.

Hey, you want to go get a cup of coffee?

You want to go talk about my idea? You want to get some more coffee? Hey, I just need to talk to 17 other people about my idea. It's like, dude, just start the business. Just go.

>> Just go.

>> You've got plenty of wisdom. >> Hey, you know, you got you want to go to lunch? I quit. >> Start the business.

>> It took me I for about 10 years I used to take meetings. These people would come in. They wanted to tell me about an idea, something that we could do and you know, Ramsay should be doing and they had this great idea. And I finally quit because I finally figured out that ideas are a dime a dozen.

People who do them aren't. >> Yes, >> they're harder to find. Ideas are everywhere. >> Everywhere.

>> But people that actually execute, they're hard to find. Melissa's in Oregon. Hey, Melissa.

>> Hello, gentlemen. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Well, um I considering a a change in

career a bit. Um, I am about 3 days away

from completing my master's degree in um, professional clinical mental health counseling. >> Oo, terrible choice. Terrible choice,

>> says the guy with a PhD. Morons do that.

But well done.

>> Thank you. Thank you. It's been a long hard journey. I've continued to work full-time as I've gone through my master's program. Mhm.

>> Um but I did borrow for um for most of

the schooling itself. And after about 2 and 1/2 years now and on top of clinical hours, I've been doing about 60 hours a week plus school.

>> And um I'm almost done. And my site is asking me to come on full-time. And I'm I'm nervous about giving up my job that I've had for 13 years with my benefits and my 401k and becoming a 1099

employee. And >> what do you make at your job?

>> I bring home about 3,000 3,000 a month.

>> What would you make if you start 1099?

>> Well, that's the thing. It kind of depends on how many clients you have and how many show up. I >> mean, what do you think you're going to make?

>> I'll be doing 35 an hour um to start, which I'm getting about 26 an hour. Um

>> what? Why 35 an hour? Why would you do

that? I know I pay my therapist way more than $35 an hour. >> Like $135 an hour.

>> Yeah, I live in a rural area which um the benefit of staying at my site as I continue super I I will be I could become independently licensed. I live in a border town and I can get independently licensed in Idaho. is about uh 10 minutes away at my site and

but I'm also continuing um I'm taking specialized classes in play therapy to become a registered play therapist and that requires a higher level of lure.

>> Okay, so here here's what I would do if I was you. Okay, here's exactly what I would do. >> Um I would work out arrangements with my

supervisor.

Number one, if this is the only supervisor you have, um I I would shop

around Mhm. >> Um, and I know in a rural area you kind of do what you what you got to deal with. >> Are you married?

>> I am single. >> Okay. Why do you have to stay there?

>> Well, the what the site the the they are qualified for what's called a HERSA grant. So basically with two years of >> Yeah. Why do you have to stay in an area if you can't get $35 an hour? I'm going to go somewhere I can get 135 an hour.

But they will also pay off my student loans, my 30k of student loans by being there at that site within two years of being employed there.

>> Is that after you've done your after you've got full lensure? So after you've given them your 3,000 hours plus your additional play therapy hours, then they're going to pay your loans off after that.

>> No, it starts after um after my degree is confirmed and I get lure, which I'm probably about a month away from. You're going to have your 3,000 hours postgraduate done right right when you graduate?

>> No. Um Idaho only requires a total of 10, excuse me, 1,000 hours with uh 400

being direct. And they will actually um

um allow you to have your internship hours um to uh qualify. So, and I've

done all of that while I'm working full-time therapy. I have had supervisor level. Um >> so here here's what I would do. I would meet a need in your rural area, which is

people who see clients on Saturdays and Sundays, >> and I would sign up personally for 6 to

12 months of really exhausting work 7

days a week. And I would do it at a lot more than $35 an hour or I'm moving.

I'm serious. That I That's That's like

1970 pricing.

Mhm. >> I I have never I know a bunch of marriage counselors that make 100 to 150 a year. A bunch of them.

>> Okay. And if you can't do that there because you're convinced that the people in that area economically can't do that, then you need to do you need to go somewhere else. I I really would. But in terms of if you cuz the answer to the equation is yeah, no wonder you're nervous at $35 an hour and you don't have any customers. But if you're at 75 or $100 an hour, uh, I'm not nervous

anymore if I've got customers because you're going to make so much more than you make now that what little you lose from not having 401k. You can just go get you a Roth IRA with a Smart Investor Pro. It's not a big deal. You can set it up and you're 1099. So, you can do a simple IRA as well, which is a 401k for single employee or small companies. Um,

and you can do a setup. There's all kinds of stuff you can do to replace that. Buy your own health insurance. You can replace benefits with money when you make more money. And so I that that's what the core of the the $35 argument is. I want you to make more money.

You've gone to all this trouble. You've gone to all this exhausting process of doing your hours, doing everything while you're working full-time. For God's sakes, cash the check now. Yeah.

something about this arrangement doesn't sound right and I would really want to check through to make sure you're not getting taken advantage of. So Dave, it's not uncommon for

graduates to have to pay a supervisor for their hours, but and some supervisors will say, "Hey, you come work for me. They're billing out at 100 bucks an hour or 100 whatever it is, but I'm going to pay you 35 bucks an hour while you work towards your hours and you're paying me to supervise you to sign off >> on 1099." >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but that's there's two problems here. One is you've backed yourself into a corner by borrowing a bunch of money for a graduate program.

You have a math problem. You may not be able to >> $30,000.

>> Do what? >> She's $30,000 in debt.

>> That's what I mean. But she may not be able to quit her job to go work for 35 bucks an hour.

>> Yes. >> At 1099 to pay off that $30,000 worth of debt. So >> you're saying that $35 an hour because they're taking their cut off top of her.

>> I'm saying if that's the case. She's saying that's not the case. What they're going to do is they're gonna pay her way below market rate and then say, "We're gonna pay your student loans off." >> That's still not a deal. >> That feels like a bad deal.

>> Still not a deal. >> Yeah. It feels like a not good deal. >> If I could have made twice as much money, I don't care.

I'll pay my own student loans. >> That's right. That's exactly right. >> That and I can pay my own benefits and I can pay my own whatever.

>> That's right.

>> Um Yeah. Don't sell yourself short.

That's what we're trying to say. Make sure you make sure you get the details ironed out. And that and really when making any decision, the more options you have, the more power you have and the higher the quality of the decision will be. When you've narrowed it down to one possible outcome, you don't have any power and you don't have and you have a higher probability of making the wrong decision.

And the meaning I'm going to own this is the place. It's got all worked out that this is the place and it doesn't have to be the place.

and they know that you owe 30,000 bucks.

They also know that you've decided they're the only option, which means they can kind of pay you whatever they want. And that's never a good place to find yourself. So, but all I say is I'm

glad you're going to be a therapist. We need more good ones and especially in rural communities, man. Um, but I'm with

Dave, man. If you can retain autonomy,

please please go do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. If if you're clear and you're able to get lensure and just go, then go. That's what you need to do.

That puts the Sour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 163. Take Control of Your Finances by Setting Boundaries | February 9, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair [music] Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us. We have a lovely studio audience today. Fantastic looking people. Full lobby out there.

That's fun. The phone number to jump in isle8255225.LE8825-55225.

[music] We'll take your money questions, your work questions. They all kind of go together. We start off with Madison in Salt Lake City. Madison, how can we help today?

>> Hey there. I've been dealing with some long ongoing um unemployment in my relationship. My partner has been unemployed for two and a half years and most recently when taking him through the finances he kind of shut down, got upset, that I was doing things wrong, but that he didn't want to get a job because it would not benefit him. I'd misuse it somehow.

I'm >> so [laughter] Okay, I hold to the question.

for two and a half years and he said he

doesn't want to get a job because it's not beneficial for what? I didn't catch that last part of that sentence.

>> Of course. Um, he said he didn't want to get a job because it wouldn't benefit him, that I would just misuse the money somehow.

>> Oh, wow. >> Can I ask another question? Why are you still in this relationship?

>> We have children together.

>> Okay. >> But you're not married.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> You can have children together and and still not have this cohabitation

resentment bubbling up here. This is a fact. Okay. But we stopped you. You were

about to get to your main question before George and I cuz we have lots of thoughts. I can already tell you.

>> What is your question?

>> So my main question is, am I being financially abused? But I want to add a layer to that. Okay. >> So we did invest in an Airbnb like remodel and rental together. So he spent a lot of his time over one of those years in reworking that house and getting it running. Um, so he says that

he's working and he's adding value to the relationship through that.

>> Is is the uh Airbnb actually making money?

>> We are in our fifth month and it's paying the bills but it's not turning a profit. >> Well, okay. Um, do you have any evidence

and let's say we were in a court of law and I said, "Give me evidence that your boyfriend is abusing you financially." What evidence would you give me?

the just the lack of support and provision. >> Yeah, I don't think you're being abused, but I don't think semantics matter here.

I do think you're being manipulated.

That statement you gave George and I to start off the call where he looked at you with a straight face presumably and

said with some sort of conviction that a job would not benefit him because you would misuse the money is about as

>> Yeah. He turned it right around to you as a case of manipulation I've ever seen. This guy is an absolutely

broken human being. And that's not an insult. That's an actual diagnosis. I could insult him. I'm not going to because I don't think it helps you. But he's broken. He's deeply broken. He's got to go get some help. And you can't give it to him. And I think he needs some boundaries.

>> I really do. >> What would you suggest? >> I can't continue to support you financially. >> Yeah. We are not going to continue our relationship the way it is now. If you aren't going to support me and the children, if we aren't going to support these kids we've made, you're out.

And here's here's what's easy. His response will be your decision. If he takes ownership and action, there's possible hope and repair for this relationship. And if he doesn't, if he plays the blame game, tries to guilt you, if he panics and gets defensive and makes it your problem, well then you know, yeah, you you've just confirmed all of your suspicions.

Yeah. Let me let me flip it if I might, Madison, just for a moment. Okay. Let's say you had a girlfriend that was in this exact situation and and she told you over lunch or coffee what was going on.

Man, it's it's tough when you look at it from that perspective. It's definitely shocking. Like if it was your friend and they were asking you for help, you'd you'd want them to be treated better%.

>> Which is why I'm keeping you there. But and what else would you tell her to do?

>> Counseling. That's the first thing I would go to. >> Not a bad idea. And And what And what would you tell her to do if the boyfriend or the husband wouldn't go to counseling? What would you tell her to do?

She doesn't have to live that way. I I

100% believe that biblically men should

provide and protect. And if he's not able to do that, then she's not in a healthy relationship anymore. >> Yeah. And wouldn't you after you left her, wouldn't you in the car wonder what else is going on behind the scenes or what might develop long term if he's doing this over money? What happens when the kids are older and there becomes major decisions? Wouldn't you think, man, there there's there's a whole lot to this onion. Would you think something like that? Yes or no?

>> Yeah, it definitely opens up a can of worms. >> Yeah, this Listen, I hope this works out for you, but yeah, you are headed towards abuse and I a professional might

call it abuse. I'm neither one of us are mental health professionals, so I don't want to diagnose it clinically.

>> Yeah, I don't want to label it that, but you are being manipulated and it's not okay. And so, you need to take action right away. He needs very clear boundaries that this is not okay. You don't feel safe and you're not going to do this with the kids. And and it's not a threat, by the way, cuz I can tell you some somebody like this is going to go, "Are you threatening me?" And you go, "No, because see, a threat is what a bully does on the playground.

This is not a threat. This is what's going to happen. And don't play the game. Don't get sucked into this because if he says something like that, he's going to make you feel bad." No, no, no, no.

It's not a threat. I'm telling you, we can't keep doing this. And so we we go see somebody. Now, by the way, I'm the only one working, so I'll pay for it.

But you could also point out to him in all this, and this is where I want to bring George in really quick because there's some technical stuff to this that I know you can put some emotional language around.

so he has no right to her money there.

Just I want you to bring in the technical aspect as if as if we were sitting with this couple going, "Hey, pal Sparky, let me give you some realities." Well, yeah, this is cohabitation and I don't know what the laws are in Utah about what his rights are and and what he's protected and entitled to, but the longer you enable the irresponsibility, the worse this is going to get. Cuz here's what's happened. Your generosity has replaced his urgency. Cuz if you're

hungry and you need to eat and no one's going to provide it, you go find some food. Don't you? >> And he has no right to her money. None.

Correct. >> Yeah. I mean, if this was in the court of law, they'd go, "All right, there there's going to be, you know, you guys are going to figure out how to cover the children together." But he's on his own to figure it out.

>> So, one of the things you do right away is we're going to get counseling and we're separating finances. If there's anything you're sharing right now, I would stop that immediately so that he knows you're serious.

>> Okay? >> And then I would say, "Put up or shut up." Not that way. This is us telling you, but you know, he needs to go to counseling. And then we're going to find out from a professional whether or not he's willing to do the work.

This is the ultimate. I love the advice you gave your friend. I think you're a good friend, Matt. I said, I think you got a good head on your shoulders.

And the reason I put you in that little exercise is sometimes it's very hard and I appreciate you called George and I today. It's hard for us to give oursel advice, >> but the advice you gave your friend is the advice for yourself. You know what to do, so go do it. And we're cheering you on.

Uh, but this is not just about you anymore.

>> So, >> 100%. >> Take care of you so that you can take care of them. That's the advice today.

So, sorry you're going through this, >> George. This is a reason why uh 7,000th

reason why that you need to be married. So, we've got full commitment. We know what we're getting into. >> Some skin in the game here.

>> [music]

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All right, [music] we go to Toronto next where Kate is waiting for us. Kate, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Um, I'm pretty upset right now about the situation that we're going through. >> Okay. >> Uh, basically my husband

borrowed money off the equity line on our house and put it into cryptocurrency.

Um, >> Ouch. >> I found out Yeah, I found out about it, was not happy, and asked him to sell it right away.

How did that go? >> Um, well

uh he he he said that he would and

assured me that it would be, you know, back in the bank account by Monday or Tuesday. >> Uhhuh. >> Um, but he was uh he had the flu at the

time, was not feeling great. I don't know. >> I don't know if that >> dog ate his homework. Okay. Yeah. Got it. >> Yeah. I don't know. But in in any case,

uh he accidentally pressed the sell

short button instead of the sell button apparently. And so um after like four or

five days and it hadn't showed up in the bank account, I asked him about it and

then he admitted to me that um he

accidentally pressed the wrong button and it had all been liquidated and it's

gone. >> And where did it go?

Apparently crypto the the account just kept it.

>> Okay. So >> I don't I don't know. >> Well, selling short means he borrowed an asset he didn't own and he sold it at the current price and then he becomes obligated to buy it back later potentially at a higher price. So this is just gambling in the in the you know market especially in the crypto world.

It was already speculation. So, it's like double gambling at this point on top of the infidelity that he created by doing this behind your back, >> right? So, my question is, is there any way to get that money back or is it just gone for good?

>> Well, he'll be obligated to buy it back.

And so, I don't think that it's gone forever and he needs to do his due diligence to figure out what he needs to do to get the money back. >> Yeah. I I just do not know the answer because of his him selling it short. Do

you got anything on uh you got anything on that? >> I don't know the ins and outs of what platform he's using and the wallet.

>> I'm on the phone with customer service though. My guess is they got somebody and I'm going, "Hey, uh this is what I did." >> But let's just pretend the money's gone.

How much money is gone? >> Cuz it's really added to the helock.

>> So this debt >> it's about two Yeah. $250,000.

Oh, okay. You buried the lead there, Kate. >> Oh, boy. I need a whole can of Tums for

this one. James, this is like the whole can down the hatch. $250,000.

>> Yes.

>> Honestly, if James would have let us, we would be patching in uh this website right now and helping you out. God bless you. You need to be on the phone with them, not us. >> There's there's >> bottom line is >> seven layers to this. >> There's so much here. He's a He's like a degenerate gambler at that point if he puts his entire house and family on the block to try to get rich quick with crypto. Oh >> yeah, it's it's very upsetting.

>> And there's a lot he's not telling you to do.

>> I'll tell you that. >> Yeah. I don't know what >> I'm not saying that he didn't hit a wrong button, >> but I'm saying that there's a few steps you have to take to do something that idiotic [laughter] >> and then say, "Oh, the money's gone." Babe, >> I love Spicy George. I hate to tell you this, Kate, but I'm with George. I think this is You need to go sit with a therapist with me. You owe me this. You just You put $250,000 uh on the line here, and I have so many

questions. And I'm with George. I find it hard to believe he pressed the wrong button. Now, the reason I give it a chance, George, and you know this cuz you're sitting next to the guy who if someone was going to do that, it's me.

>> Yeah. you would be liable to fat finger something, but not at $250,000.

>> I would think I'd slow down long enough to make sure I hit the right button.

>> Yeah. >> But I'm saying there's a chance. I don't want to call him a liar, but boy, my my

BS meter is just singing right now.

>> It's just like I don't know what's worse, if he didn't know what he was doing or if he knew what he was doing.

Both are frightening scenarios.

>> And either way, we got to approach it the same way, right? Whether he hit the

wrong button in a bonehead move uh or he

didn't, we still have to solve the problem that he did this without your knowledge and he didn't sell it when you told him to. There's there's two major gates of trust that he walked through

>> with you. >> And I I'm I'm looking this up to try to help you ask the right questions to him.

>> What do you got? >> So, here's some questions to ask him to confirm today. Are all positions closed?

That's number one. Number two, is there any remaining margin exposure?

>> Number three, is this 250K a realized loss, meaning it actually happens, or is some of it still in flux? And then, what

exactly is owed right now? Who is the lender? What's the interest rate? What are the repayment terms? What are the risks here? >> Can we do this to give you more assurance? Kate, George, can you get that to Christian?

>> Yes, we'll email you. Christian, you can email her this because here's what I actually want Kate to do. I want Kate to get on the phone with the crypto company >> and you he needs to provide you with screenshots of everything he has. And if he can't do that, I don't know that there's a lot of hope for you two cuz a symptom of something much deeper and darker.

>> But let's hope Kate he's telling the truth and uh you can take these questions from George Christian will get them to you and you are getting on the phone now. you are the private investigator and if he's nothing to hide, he's got no problem with us. But we can get on the phone with this company and go, "Hey, my husband says he hit the self short button. Uh, I got some questions." Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Are you guys doing well financially otherwise?

>> Um, yes. Yeah, we are. Um, >> what's your household income? So, um, he brings in about 300,000 a year.

>> Okay. And are you working outside the home? >> Not currently. No, I I used to work as a nurse, but I've been staying home with the kids. >> All right. And how much debt do you guys currently have?

>> Uh, well, that's the other thing um that we don't agree on. We we have a lot of debt. We have uh six different properties. um four of which are rental properties, one is a vacation house, and then we still have a mortgage on our own house. >> Okay. >> And even though he he even though he makes good money, it's just all going to pay these mortgages every month. >> Well, here's the fun homework he gets to do as a way to rebuild some trust. He's

going to start selling off these properties like hotcakes to pay off all of this debt. >> Yeah. >> Now, >> well, that's my other now thing.

>> Is is that is that the best thing to do?

because he he's wanting to like take money out of one of his retirement sick account. >> No, this guy should not be taking money out of anywhere. >> Yeah. >> I don't know who's paying him $300,000.

I wouldn't hire this guy to flip a burger at this point. >> He's like a reckless gambler with you all's money. >> Yeah. He needs to go to Gamblers Anonymous cuz every single thing he's doing is going, "What other shortcut can I take that will put my entire family at risk?" >> It's really true, George.

You know, Kate, here's what's going on. And I think you got to bring this up to him and and certainly with a therapist in the room is what I'm going to suggest here. But George, here's what I'm seeing. This is a guy who's actually making really good money, $300,000.

And this is a guy that at some point has gone out and created a professional uh amount of credibility and he's getting paid well and can become wealthy off of 300,000 >> without taking any of these. >> He wants to get rich quick. I think you nailed it. And I mean this, Kate, and I'm not beating up on him.

>> saying this isn't enough. I need more and I need it now.

>> Six properties is massive exposure, massive risk. So, yes, back to your question that you asked, George, I'm jumping in here to say yes, it's the right move because theoretically, you have some equity in those. And if you don't have any equity, at least we get rid of the risk and lower the uh the

mortgage. Get that out of your life because now we have a $250,000 debt we didn't have a week ago or whatever it is. >> So, yes, it's the right strategy. sell every one of them until this guy gets healed from this appetite for the home

run. There there's an addiction here that scares me. And there's three stooges of wealth building, Kate, and it's fear, greed, [music] and pride. It

sounds like he's got one or all of the above here that's behind all of this.

And he needs to come out clean and let it all out into the light to disinfect this entire situation. Kate, hang on the

line. George is going to give you that awesome research. Christian is going to make sure you have it so that you can do your own research and hope this [music] works out.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

All right, JD's up next in Las Vegas.

JD, how can we help today?

Hey, can you hear me? Okay, >> I can hear you well. What's going on?

>> Oh, not much. Um, so I just I just

started listening to the show uh yesterday and the situation I'm in, I I just feel really stuck and I don't even know where to begin. >> Okay. What What is making you feel stuck?

Um, I guess I just have a lot of

payments that I am responsible for and

um, you know, I owe $31,000.

Uh, it's a 28% loan on a $25,000 truck.

I owe 16,000 on an RV that's worth maybe seven. And I'm willing to sell this sell all this stuff, but >> great. >> You know, I I wouldn't be able to get a personal loan to make up the difference.

>> Okay. Well, here's the good news. Uh, you came to the right place. George is going to walk you through this, but you need to have this mindset as as he walks you through this. You're actually not stuck.

You're not stuck. You're just in a really rotten place that you put yourself in. And you got into it way easier than it's going to be to get out.

But you're not stuck. You got to hold on to that. You got me.

>> I got you. >> All right, George. Prove it to him. How does he get unstuck in his mind? Well, let's look at the math of this and then figure out, you know, the easiest way out because it might be a solvable problem with your current money or we might need to go, you know, sell a bunch of stuff and go get three more jobs. So, tell us about your financial picture.

How much are you making right now?

>> Um, I'm making between 60 and 80,000 a year. I'm taking home about 44, maybe a

little less. It kind of flu fluctuates.

Uh, 4,400 every month.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, I drive truck. Okay. And what is

your rent?

>> Um, so my mom owns the house and the

mortgage payment is 850 and I give her 900 and I'm also responsible for the

water bill. >> Okay. It's a very reasonable rent as far as your income goes.

>> I see on the screen here it says you're behind on the rent. Why is that?

Um, I think just, you know, it's just

one thing after another. You know, I I pay one month's rent and then by the time I pay it, it's, you know, another month is due immediately. And I just feel like I can't get caught up.

>> No. Where's the other $3,600 going that

isn't rent?

um $900 for that truck payment that I

mentioned and then uh you know like >> $500 for insurance which is a little ridiculous but >> All right, so we'll clear 1,400 bucks just getting rid of this truck.

>> Yeah. Yeah, ideally that's what I want to do. I tried to refinance it. um couldn't do that and I I won't be able to sell it cuz I I don't have six grand

to to pay off the difference.

>> You don't right now, but you could. And I think that's the move. Was this a trade in or did you find the private party value?

>> Um uh the private party value is is about 25,000. >> Okay. And you're saying what do you owe on it that you owe like 31? You said

>> 31 and change. Yeah. Okay. And then what was the other debt?

>> Um the RV that I owe 16,000 and change.

>> And what's that worth?

>> Uh maybe seven or 8,000. And then I have $3,500 in credit card debt.

>> But to George's question, I mean, you're also spending freely outside of some of these big payments, too, aren't you?

>> Um, yes and no. I mean, I prioritize,

you know, just keeping the the house payment made, the bills. We're behind on bills, so, you know, I I pay what I can on the bills and then and then they're due again. But, yeah, I I feel like I could settle down a little bit on on my finances. >> Do you save any money? When was the last time in a month you save something?

>> Uh, hasn't hasn't happened in >> And are you open road? Like, what's your truck driving schedule?

Um, I'm home every day. I start in the morning and I get off uh in the mid

afternoon. >> Okay. And Oh, okay. And mom owns the house and you're just paying her rent.

>> Uh, she she uh has a mortgage on the house and the mortgage payment is 850 and I'm just covering that.

>> Okay. And she's not cover and she's not able to work. She's not because you said we are behind on the bills. I thought I heard >> uh me and my fiance. Oh, so you and your

fiance are living with your mom?

>> No, no, she my mom lives somewhere else.

My mom just inherited the house. Um,

>> but is the fiance living in the same house? >> No. >> Okay. So, you live in this house by yourself?

>> Oh, yeah. Just with my fiance.

>> I just asked you if you live with your fiance and you said no.

>> Oh, sorry. I thought you were asking if I live with my mother. I apologize. No, I did, but we cleared that one. Now we're on this. So, what does the fiance do for a living?

>> Um, she's a CNA. She uh she brings in

about 2,000 a month. Um,

>> is she part time? >> She helps.

Um, it's it's technically full-time.

It's three days a week. Um, three on, four off. >> Can she work more?

>> Um, >> well, it sounds like she's not paying rent at all. Why isn't she I mean is she paying any of the housing costs if she's living there?

>> Uh when I need help with uh >> You do need help. This is $900.

>> Okay. All right. >> What she can. Uh she has a car payment herself and she's also working on paying off uh med medical bills.

>> Okay. All right. So, we've we've done enough diagnosis here. JD, you have never even sniffed a budget. And even if you sniffed a budget, I don't know that you have the behavioral discipline at this stage to actually honor the budget. So you call it asking for help, right?

>> Yes. >> What do I do, Ken and George? Right.

>> That's correct. >> All right. Here's what you do. You have got to start being disciplined. You're

just spending money like a billionaire and and you don't have anything. And so you actually can get out of this. All right, George, you've heard all the facts. All right, give him give him the tactical. What does he need to do today?

So the baby steps are in this order.

Baby step $1,000 starter emergency fund.

Do you have $1,000 to your name right now across your bank account?

>> Uh, no, sir. >> Okay, that is your first goal, which means the next paycheck that comes in, you are putting that aside and you're going to cover your four walls. And if you that's all you can cover, that's okay. because so far we're behind on the rent, but we're trying to make the debt payments. We've got to cover our four walls first. Now, this is to mom. So, now mom is mom paying the mortgage even though you're not paying her.

>> Um >> cuz you said you're behind on rent, but that's really mom's mortgage.

>> Well, no, she's not paying it. It's It's just not getting paid when I don't send her money. >> The mortgage is not getting paid at all.

>> Yeah. >> So, you could get foreclosed on

Um, we haven't gotten to that point yet.

We're We're >> That's where it's headed. I mean, that's what happens when you stop paying your mortgage. Your your fiance needs to start paying 450.

We're splitting this cuz we're not married, but she needs to be working 40 hours a week. >> If she's living there, she's paying half the rent until you learn how to do it on

your own.

>> Okay? >> And so, we need to come up with six grand after that to clear this truck.

So, you get a,000 bucks in the bank and then you're going to keep living on rice and beans. You're not doing jack squat when you're not working and you're going to be working a lot. Can you do overtime?

>> Um, I don't really have that option.

>> No. No. Three other jobs then.

>> You get off in the afternoon. You already let me know that. So, now you're not getting off of the truck situation.

You're moving into the next job. You need money. You need to work really hard. So, this is painful for you. Do

you need a car right now to get from A to B or or can you just drive the truck?

Uh >> yeah, I have to daily commute to work.

>> Can you >> Can the girlfriend the fiance not take you? She's got plenty of time.

>> No, she works uh 6:00 p.m. to 6:00 a.m.

I worked about uh 4:00 a.m. to to about

400 p.m.

>> Okay. Well, you're going to have to figure out a transportation sit situation out cuz if you can clear this truck, you can breathe again. >> Yeah, you're in bicycle territory. So that $6,000 is your focus after this,000

bucks is saved for your small emergency fund. But that's your key to getting out of this. And so far it's just well can't do that cuz of this underwater on this.

You're going to need to get more money and spend less. And if I looked at your bank statement, I could probably find 48 ways to do it. So hang on the line.

We're going to gift you every dollar our budgeting app. It's going to be a coach in your pocket like us, but less yelling and more recommendations for how to find that margin. I'm rooting for you, man.

We we love you. That's why we are yelling. It's out of love. I'm not yelling.

[music]

[music]

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[music]

All right. One of the best things that you can do for your finances is to have a really good tax pro uh in your corner

that you could trust to help advise you on the best moves to make for your situation uh for your small business, especially if you've had some big life changes uh this past year. So, either your personal situation or your small business situation, you got to have somebody who knows what they're doing. Go to ramseyssolutions.comtaxpro.

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Uh remember all these um CPAs and

enrolled agents have been vetted by the Ramsey team, but you need to sit with them and make sure you feel good that you understand everything that they want you to do. All right, let's go to John in Pittsburgh. John, how can we help?

>> Gentlemen, how are you today?

>> Doing great. What's going on with you?

>> Good. I'm I'm loving the fact that Ken called you Spicy George, first off. So, >> thank you. I appreciate it. And and a word of warning to you, John. He's He's a little frisky today. I >> popped up on Captain. >> He walked in before the show started. I knew he was a man on a mission. So careful with George today.

>> I will have it no other way. Okay, great. >> Um so to get to my question, uh I'm in the process of selling my house. Uh and I'll be getting roughly 130 $135,000

from that and just want to see if I'm if I'm planning it right. Um this will put me into baby step seven. Um, and my girlfriend and I, uh, we have plans to get married, uh, potentially looking at rings and, um, trying to see what the

best option would be with that money.

So, >> wow. >> My plan is, um, and and just looking for some feedback. Thank you. Feedback on you, uh, from you guys. Uh, [clears throat] I'm looking to have a 100,000 of that, maybe in a high yield savings account, maybe investing. That's where I'm I'm asking feedback from you. Uh we're looking to potentially once we're married and um buying a house in it no

less than four years when she can retire and and um we'll end up buying something again once we're married. So I'm thinking of putting 100 in it high yield savings or something else you may recommend for that four to five years.

Um and then the rest just a couple about

five grand in emergency fund some money into a ring and maybe a vacation like a Ramsey cruise or something. Uh, and then another 20 for a just in case car fund.

Um, I have a 2010 Toyota Highlander with almost 200,000 miles and uh, loving it.

Just want to see how far it goes, but want to also be prepared. So, >> okay. >> Any suggestions you might have on on what to do, what not to do, right track, etc. >> Yeah. Well, I'm curious. Uh, how old are you two? Cuz you're talking about her retiring.

>> Um, in her job, she can retire at 50.

She's 46 and I'm 49.

>> Okay. Is her plan to retire at 50 and not work anymore?

>> Not work at [clears throat] that job. Uh and then that job will afford us the opportunity to be able to move to a different state, and that's our goal.

>> Does she have a pension or something with some guaranteed income?

>> Yeah. She's also going to do some work, but it'll most likely be in a different state. Yeah. >> And you're not getting married. When are you getting married? You're not until she retires or I couldn't understand that. >> No, that that would be prior to that. Uh we've we've started conversations about that. We looked at rings a couple weeks ago. Um so that would happen most

likely, I'm sure. I'm sure prior to all.

>> And then just one followup for me. Uh you said put 5,000 in an emergency fund, but you said that this is going to put you uh in baby step seven. So presumably

you have a full emergency fund in baby step three. Correct.

>> Yes. I have 15,000. I'd like to bump it up to 20. >> Okay.

So I see >> I see what you're doing there. Okay. So 20 total. So baby step seven would be a paid for house.

So right now you would kind of be going back to this kind of four, five, six land until we get the house paid off. So that would be your next goal is to kind of earmark as much of this as you can for that future down payment. Now if it's going to be guaranteed, hey, this is five plus years out, you could invest the money in, you know, index funds in a brokerage account.

That's a possibility. We don't know. You know, it's kind of in that middle zone where it's maybe too long to rent, but would we recoup the money if we buy something? >> Would you recoup the money if you bought something and sold it and then bought another? >> Well, because remember, they're going to move to another state. >> Yeah. Well, if you're going to have the house for at least a few years, it could be a good buy, but it may just be worth renting for the peace of mind knowing this is very temporary.

>> Yeah. And that's that's where we are. We're not really sure since it is.

>> Is that where you're going? You just sold your house >> or you will. Are you going to live with her in her apartment or her house or that she's renting? What? >> Yeah, she she owns a house as well. I'm living here now. >> Um, and then she may or may not sell her

house here shortly. Um, depending how it goes. And that's where we're we're thinking, well, would we go in and buy a house? Obviously, we're not going to do it under both names uh unless or until we're married. Uh, but would do we buy another house? >> I mean, I would just live with her once you guys are married. That's the easier solution.

>> Yeah. >> Instead of just renting. At least you're building some equity while you two are married and then you can sell it once you're ready to retire and move elsewhere. So, yeah, I like the idea of parking in a high yield savings account because there's a lot of unknowns right now and we might need this money sooner and earmark that for your house down payment.

If you don't have a good one, Fairwinds is an awesome uh partner of ours and they've got a great high yield savings product. You can jump on fairwinds.org/ramsey to get their smart bundle that includes that. I like a 20,000 emergency fund. I like having this car fund set aside knowing you're going to do this and you're going to pay cash.

So, let's not make it a surprise when it happens.

You don't have to go crazy. What are you thinking about spending on a ring? >> I knew you were going to get nosy about this. >> Wow. People, I just America wants to know. It's his business. It's his money.

>> Do I tell America how much I'm spending on a ring? I mean, >> I think it's a fair question. You've told us pretty much everything. >> You've told us everything else. I mean, go ahead. What are you thinking?

>> Um, I'm thinking in the $5,000 range somewhere, >> right? Oh, George is so happy.

>> I know. So, it could could be a little more, could be a little less. >> What does that get you? What does that get you these days? What does 5,000 get you? A wife, if she says yes.

>> Hopefully something better than from the rare island of Zirconia. That's for sure. >> I don't think you know. I I don't think you actually know. You don't know, do you? >> I have a little bit of an idea. I have a friend who's a diamond wholesaler, but >> Oh, he's going to get a sick deal. >> Dave also says Yeah, Dave also says we can always upgrade. Uh, we've already talked the size of what we're looking at. Um, so this is serious.

>> Okay. Well, this is great news because the You're saying that the You have a good idea that the 5,000 is going to make her happy.

>> It will. >> Ah, well, there you go.

>> All right. Then I I like your plan, John. I think you're thinking through this wisely. There's just a lot of variables right now. And so that's my hesitation to put this in the market.

Um, not knowing what's going to happen.

I mean, you've seen the headlines just this week and everyone's getting spooked and they're selling off and now it's back up to record highs and so I think because of that your your heart rate will stay smooth if you just put it in a high yield savings account for now. You'll get, you know, over 3% on your 100 grand, which isn't bad.

>> Uh, great unintentional segue, George.

>> Tell me more. >> Well, we were just talking off air about the crypto >> uh roller coaster. I feel like we need a little uh update. You have been very public. Uh we as a show have been public about crypto and the risks and we've seen it go down tremendously over the last 72 hours. Uh looks like it may be

stabilizing a little bit today, but who knows? What say you, George? This is your this is your chance to crow a little bit. >> Well, I'm not here to say the I told you so cuz you know >> Well, that that's not exciting.

I think America would like to hear that. >> I'm not going to do it even though I did tell you so. But here's the thing you got to understand. Bitcoin went over $100,000 and everyone's going, "See, you Ramsay guys, you missed out.

You told people not to." >> People were reaching out to me on social g saying, "Yeah, you Ken Coleman and Dave Ramsey, you guys don't have a clue." >> Yeah.

who knows where it's going to go from here. Nobody knows. All I know is this.

The stock market, the S&P 500, is 500

actual companies producing real products and services that have real revenue and their shareholders that are trying to increase the value. That's what we're all rooting for. And Bitcoin has no true

utility. It's not really based on anything except hype and us saying this is the future, so we should all put our money there. And then you get a bunch of bros who get spooked and they start selling it off like hotcakes, tanking the value. And this is the problem with speculation. you know, you you you place the bet and it's the roulette table. And so, it's the reason I don't own any Bitcoin because I'm already an anxious guy. Don't need to add to it anymore.

>> I'm good with the S&P 500 average 10% return over the long haul. It's I do the get-rich slow plan. >> So, what you're telling me is this was not shocking. These were not shocking headlines when we saw crypto on fire.

>> No, I kind of knew eventually this was going to happen and maybe I it's going to go back up and be a million dollars one day. I don't know the future. All I know is I can control what I can control and that's investing slowly, wisely.

Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but those who gather little by little will increase it. That's what Proverbs says.

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[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman joined by George Camel. We're here to help you out. You got money questions, you got professional money making questions, those work questions, we're here to help on those as well.8825-5225

is the number.8255225.

All right. Uh boy, this here we go. Am I hooked on phonics? I always enjoy these.

Alita, I believe, is who we're going to in Fagetville, Arkansas. Tell me I'm right, Alita, please.

>> You are right. Thank you, Mr. Coleman.

Mr. Campbell, thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. But no more mister. We It makes us feel old. It's >> We We won't allow it.

>> Yeah, Ken's already old, so he just need a reminder. >> Well, old compared to you, >> compared to most people. >> That's right. All right, Alita, how can we help?

>> So, I've had trouble finding a job in the last 10 years. Uh, Ken, I've been looking into your uh work and I started your book, The Proximity Principle. Um, and I realized I've been playing the slot machine a lot, but I have a lot of skills in uh events. And then in 2018, I

was certified as a butler, uh, hoping

that would make me specialize to get a job and I just feel like I am running on the wheel to nowhere. >> What are you doing right now for a living? So I am a Canadian who is currently in the states. So um I have talked to so many different places that place butlers and a lot of them in the states at least are saying I need your green card so we can help you with the immigration side and >> so you don't you don't have your green card.

>> I don't um and even in Canada

>> that's a they just don't pay as well and the cost of living is ridiculous. So I'm like, well, let's do the states and it's a better opportunity.

>> Okay. So even though you uh have got the

certification as a butler and that's what you really want to do to be a butler.

>> Yes. >> Or personal assistant, executive assistant up in that field.

>> Okay. Well, those are two different things. And I I must tell you, uh did you ever watch um Downtown Abbey?

>> Yes. Okay. >> Love the butler.

>> All right. So when you say butler, that's what I'm thinking. I want to make sure I'm I'm on the same wavelength. Is that what you're talking about?

>> Correct. >> So very nowaday >> Go ahead.

>> Butlers nowadays tend to do multiple things. So they could be your personal assistant and also take care of things around the house or organize the staff.

>> Okay. Okay. And the reason I'm asking that is because that tells me there's a wide range of people. There are certain people that would pay for a personal assistant but would not pay for a butler. Correct.

>> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. And you're a comedian, which is fascinating to me. So, I got to do some some real digging here. How much are you making on average uh per month

as a comedian? A working comedian.

>> I'm actually not a comedian. I'm a Canadian. >> Oh, good grief. >> I heard comedian, too.

Wow. I'd love to hear some material. Okay. You're comedian.

>> I'm so glad cuz I thought here come the old man jokes from George, but you heard the same thing. >> Yeah. I thought it was like you're trying to be a comedian, but you're looking for a legit, you know, buckler job right now. Got it.

All right. Back to the Okay. So, one of my wife's dear friends, one of her closest friends, uh, is a Canadian as well, and she's quite funny, just in case anybody wants to know, but she's a Canadian, and, uh, she's had so many issues with work visas.

>> Correct. Now, if you get in the right circles, they have the money that sometimes they can move that process along. So, I was hoping that might be the case. >> Okay. But what can you do given the fact that you do not have your green card?

>> So, I'm working to finish off. I have my associates degree. I was able to take a year off to work here in the States. So that's why I'm in Arkansas. And then this fall I go back to finish off the bachelor. >> Right. But what have you been doing for a living? What are you doing now for pay?

>> So I am an office assistant. Um a well I

work in a hanger uh for a company that

fixes airplanes and helicopters.

>> And there's no issue with I I guess you're here on a work visa, >> correct? Yeah, you can do a work visa.

and I specialized in business is what I figured I would take to encompass my

event. I love doing events and banquetss and then the butler. So, I decided to go for a business major. >> Okay. All right. So, a lot going on here. So, my advice is somewhat limited

if if there are limited things that we can do. >> So, it looks like you can do what you're doing now. So, A1 is to get the green card. That's the priority while we're doing these other jobs. And it sounds like you've done this, but you're not a typical person who calls me and says, "Ken, I'm having a hard time getting a job. [laughter] >> You you you have a limited scope." But the question is, could you be Go ahead.

>> Yeah. The question for you is because you say it's not what you know, it's who you know using those people.

>> 100%. But that's assuming you have you have the legal ability to work too. And so there's a different issue. Here's a prerequisite, which is >> they can't hire you.

And I truly don't think any even a high net worth household is going to go, you know what, we just like you so much. We're going to go through all of this hassle, pay extra, hope that months and months of immigration lawyers can solve this. I just don't think they're they're going to deal with that. I agree.

>> They're looking to have to deal with less things. That's why they're hiring you. >> Right. >> So, >> and and it is a challenge for sure.

we're into month 19 and he hasn't even started. Right. >> The last guy, he's like, "Let's do it." 6 months later, he's like, "Right, >> uh, I can't do it." >> Okay. You just gave anecdotal evidence to George's opinion.

>> So, George is right. So, here's the deal. The question is, you love producing live events. The idea of working on live events. You mentioned that multiple times. Feels like the executive assistant stuff is kind of down the list a little bit, but you're a person who loves tasks. You like ideiation, making the idea a reality.

Sound right? Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, here's the deal. The question is, does the green card prohibit you from doing that type of work? For instance, Ramsay Solutions has, I don't know, five, six, seven event producers that are full-time employees here, right? Um, you know, could you be an executive assistant without a green card? >> You know, I've I've told you many times Ble is a company that has sponsored Ramsey live events, Entree Leadership.

They're based out of Atlanta, but they're hiring people like you all around the country as virtual executive assistants. you know, uh, who are the,

you know, if you were, if I'm sitting with you today in Arkansas, I'm going,

>> tell me the top five event companies or

companies that are putting on some type of corporate event or civic events or who's doing what you want to do in your area >> and that's where we start. Have you made that list?

>> Um, I I've written down a few of them like some of them are hotels. Um, I did put my name into the White House. haven't been called up yet. So, we're waiting on that one.

>> No, but that's the but that's the lottery that you mentioned. That's exactly what you heard me write about in proximity. I'm saying no. Who are the top five event producers?

What venues have the most amount of events in Fateville, Arkansas? That's where we start. And then we ask the next question. Who do I know that works at one of those five places?

This is like a little Excel spreadsheet or you can do it on a piece of paper if you're old school like me, right? So, we start writing it out. We go, "Oh, I know Lynn who works over there." So, I call Lynn up.

First of all, what's going on over there? What positions do they have? So, we get it direct from Lynn. We're not going through a website and filling out a application that might as well be spitting in the wind riding down in a convertible on the interstate. It's just nothing's happening. Okay? So, let's just methodically go through what I write about in proximity principle. This is not >> difficult to do. actually just got to

show up. >> Okay. [music] >> And the old match game when you played when you were a kid, we're just going to keep this exercise up. And if it's nothing in Fateville, we start looking outside of Fagatville. Uh the other thing you might want to do is let's get serious about maybe maybe a relationship, George. That's how you get that great card. >> That's one way to do it. One way.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind.

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>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Rachel in New York City. Rachel, how can we help?

>> Hi, Ken and George. Um, thank you for having me on. Uh, my husband and I, we've been talking about having a second child. I want to know how can we balance financial readiness, mental health, and lifestyle priorities when deciding to have another baby.

>> Okay, that's a very interesting list.

Did I hear run through those again because I heard commas between all of those. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Okay, so what was the first one? Was it financial readiness?

>> Financial readiness. >> Mental health. >> Uh mental health. And the third is lifestyle priorities.

And that's all in context of how to balance those things when deciding to have another child.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. [laughter] So, >> okay. Well, you have a you have a child now, so you know, a lot of that is out the window. [laughter] >> Well, well, the mental health is not um

the financial readiness.

>> I mean, George is not sure you could have mental health. >> The financial readiness is the one that I can help you control. Your lifestyle.

I don't have a life. I go home and I'm in dad mode until, you know, I go to bed. And so that's my question mark is what are your lifestyle priorities?

>> Sure. Um so yes, so we had our first child in 2022. She'll be turning two this May. Um I unfortunately did suffer from terrible postpartum depression and I'm only just recently, you know, starting to feel like myself again.

>> Oh yeah, it can take a long long time.

That's tough. >> Yeah. Um in terms of finances, end of 2025, my husband and I, we made $225,000

gross. Um, our average take-home pay is

about 10,000 a month. With just one child, we are living comfortably. Um, at the end of the month, we're usually left over with a little over $600 in excess that we're currently putting towards retirement in addition to what we're already contributing. Um, part of me is nervous to go through postpartum again, but I'm I know I'm just going to miss the financial flexibility that we currently have. [clears throat] >> Well, where you said you're investing.

How much are you currently investing as a percentage of your income?

>> I I do think it's a little more than the 15% that you guys um recommend. My

husband, he gets about $400 or $500 taken out of his paycheck automatically and a 457. Okay. And that's dependent um

on his income because he does he has overtime. >> So his uh his uh income fluctuates.

>> And do you guys have any debt?

>> No, we're debtree. Okay, >> that's fantastic. >> And you've got savings.

>> We got savings. Yes. >> So, financial readiness is there.

>> It's there. That's why I was going to dig in. >> So, so I I my concern about the

financial readiness is when we have to

um expand, let's say, our current living situation. So, we live in a two-bedroom right now in New York City. Um, if of

course if we have a second and the second the same gender as our first, I don't mind staying in the two-bedroom, but eventually when we have to upgrade to a three, that's where I'm a little concerned. We're lucky that our rent is currently pretty low. >> What is it? I'm curious. In New York City, >> uh, 1,600 for >> Wow. Why the um I have two boys and a girl. So why the why the need if it's a

different sex to have different rooms?

They're still babies for a while.

They're just >> I mean in the beginning, yes, I agree.

They could share a room, but eventually when we need to move out. Um >> yeah, but how many how many years? It could be three years from now, >> right? >> See, that's why I'm asking you that like what's your And I'm not I'm not trying to talk you out of your decision. I'm just saying how many years before you think you would need to have them in separate rooms?

>> No. Um the three-year mark would probably be where I'm thinking.

>> Great. So again, cross that bridge when we get there. >> Yeah. And then what financial gains are you going to make over that time?

>> Okay. >> My question is more on the health side of things >> and I just don't know enough. So is it

is it uh is it how much of it is

chemical? In other words, I just don't know enough. So it's it's may sound silly, but the postpartum, how much of that is chemical in the body? Uh versus

um is it all mental and emotional and did you get the tools, you know, to recover to where you feel like does your do you have a a health a mental health professional who's guiding you through this and giving you advice on this? that that's something I would want to know.

>> Yeah. So, I actually didn't get um any

sort of uh help when I was going through

um postpartum depression.

>> Yeah. >> I was kind of um just doing everything um on my own. >> So, we'll prioritize that this time, right? Now that you know, you're going to go, we're going to do all the things we can do and we're going to shift our money towards making sure that we have the help that you need.

>> Yeah. >> That would be the conversation. Rachel, I'm I'm hearing the emotion in you.

>> You worked. You struggled >> and you just now came up for air recently, right?

>> I did. >> Oh, listen. Can I just tell you, I think

before I would decide to to have another child, I would I would go talk to a mental health professional and your doctor and go, "Hey, what are the chances that with baby number two that I have a similar experience?" I just don't know the answer. I think you need to know the answer. The second thing I would ask is, is it something we can treat with medicine? How much of this is chemical where where medicine can deal with that?

If if I were your brother, I I would say, "Hey, Rachel, do this before you guys make the decision to start trying again." Okay? >> Cuz you don't need to do this alone.

So you obviously your heart wants a baby, but you really sitting here right now, and by the way, I don't blame you.

>> You have real questions about whether or not you could do it again. Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Okay then. So I think George has done a great job of saying financially you guys are fine, but I think the real crux of this question is, hey, you are amazing.

You're superwoman that you did this without medical help, right?

>> Yeah. Um I I don't know how I did it.

>> I don't know either.

>> I don't know either because I can't even begin to understand what it what it does and and there's millions of women that are listening to this right now watching. >> They're nodding their head going, "I see you, girl." >> They see you. They've been through it. We We have no clue. But I do know this.

It's not just for you, but you are first and foremost that you take care of yourself because you know how that's affecting your baby, how it's affecting your husband and and so it's about you first, but then it's also about them.

So, in making a decision like this, you got to go in fully equipped this time.

>> And my hope is that it didn't h it doesn't happen at all. But I just don't know what the what the medical percentages are. And I think you need to know, don't you?

>> Yes. as as you talk to us today, you're not fully equipped.

>> So, um >> so you can't make a decision on that.

Now, George, you know, he's like, "Hey, financially you guys are fine." But the rest of this is really predicated on you

and your past experience and what professionals can do to help you.

>> Okay. >> So, hey, you got some appointments to make, don't you?

>> Yeah. >> You know what? I think there's some there's some community groups probably in New York of women that are still struggling with it now or have gone through it and you just came out of it. How about getting involved in one of those?

>> Sounds like an idea. Yeah. >> Come on. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> I imagine I mean just raising a baby in New York is already tough enough. Sure.

>> And so you guys are doing a great job.

You have an amazing income. You've stayed out of debt. You've got low rent which means you have flexibility in your expenses. You talked about lifestyle priorities.

There's, you know, 6, seven, 8 grand here that we can play with. And I, you know, do what you need to do. Take care of yourself. But I think there's wiggle room here as well.

And I don't think you're going to go, we're so tight every single month. >> Rachel, I want to hear what George just said. George, you're right. You've got money to spend on a therapist or a doctor to help figure this out.

>> All right. You're amazing.

>> Thank you guys. >> You're amazing. But no more. No more white knuckling through this. All right.

>> Okay. >> All right, Rachel. That's really sweet.

What a sweet sweet lady.

>> This is real, Ken. That's that's real talk. And you know, my my wife can attest. She'd be amening right now if she was listening to that call. And you got to take care of your health first. And that's why doing the baby steps, having financial peace, allows you the flexibility to focus on your own health.

>> Yeah. >> It's hard to do that when you got payments [music] to make. You can't Rachel, we're 300,000 in debt. She's got margin to go take care of herself, which is going to allow them to expand their family and be healthy doing it. Folks, she can be more pres financial peace actually looks like

[music]

[music]

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[music]

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Today's question comes from Brody in Washington DC. While I would like to pay off my student loans, I'm not sure it makes the most sense financially. They are currently at 2.6% interest, and even a monkey can make more by investing rather than paying this off. I owe almost $100,000 on my medical degree debt. I make more than enough to pay it off, but I think it may not be wise to use my money to pay this off with such a low rate.

This is classic. Well, you know what a monkey can't do? go $100,000 into student loan debt. So there's we can't be comparing ourselves to monkeys. >> Yeah. Like take it easy on the monkeys.

>> All monkeys are debtree. Yeah. We'll start there. To your question, I get it.

On paper, anything with a low interest rate, you could make the case, well, I could make more by doing XYZ with it.

But you're not thinking about a few things. Number one is risk. We don't

know that you will stay employed and have the money to pay this off. We also know that student loans are largely not even bankruptible thanks to student loan lobbyists keeping it that way. And the other thing you got to think about is there's still a payment to be made. This is still looming in your life as long as it's there.

It's living rentree in your head. You emailed in to get the question answered. And so the truth is you took this debt out saying I will pay this back. And you can drag it out as long as you want.

Truthfully, you can do that and you'll probably still live to tell the tale. But I think you will live a more peaceful life and you will build more wealth if you just went ahead and knocked it out. And not just slowly. I'm talking aggressively cuz you you hopefully are, you know, a doctor or in residency.

I don't know where you're at in the journey, but you said you have more than enough to pay it off. So pay it off cuz on a balance sheet, you don't actually have that money, right? If you have 200,000 in debt and you have 100,000 in savings, you're still in the negative. Yeah.

>> Love it. My take. I love it. I'm not going to add anything to it. That was so airtight. Uh Gregory's up in Lincoln, Nebraska. Gregory, how can we help today?

>> Uh yes. So, I'm currently on baby step two and about to start side gig work. My

question is to should I be insured with

my side gig?

>> Tell us about the side gig.

>> So, I have multiple trade skills. I work in the trades. Currently, I'm a diesel technician. like my job and everything,

but my other skill sets lie in like welding and stuff. So, I was thinking about starting a mobile welding

um side gig and in my area heavy a so I

know a lot of farmers that could use repairs and everything.

>> Yeah, I would definitely get insurance.

General liability insurance for sure.

>> Okay. General liability. Okay. Yeah.

>> I mean, cuz you're This is a high-risisk gig.

>> Okay. >> A spark could cause a fire after you leave, right? >> That's that's could be a problem.

Property's damaged, >> especially if you're mobile. You're on other people's property.

>> Okay. >> And someone could just say, "Hey, I'm suing this guy cuz he ruined my driveway while he was welding." And so, you definitely need uh the general liability insurance and maybe professional liability as well.

>> Okay. Is that even with like without like do I need to have a business like license and everything for >> I would be, you know, licensed and bonded. I would go full I mean if you're going to be doing this, you got to do it right.

>> Okay. Um like I don't want this to be

like my main job.

>> That's okay. It doesn't have to be.

>> But I would not tie all this to your personal life. I would have, you know, set up whatever you need to. I don't know what it is for your situation and your state. I would look into that of what the proper setup is. If it's an LLC, have a business checking account.

Um, it'd be wise to do that as you get this set up so that the business um you're you're at least you have more protections in place if this is through a legitimate business with legitimate insurance.

>> Okay, cool. >> I wouldn't do it I wouldn't skip it to save money and I don't think it's going to be that expensive either. So, I wouldn't worry about that. >> Yeah. What do you >> Yeah. I was just wondering Go ahead. >> Go ahead. No, no, you go ahead.

>> Uh, so I was just wondering just because like I don't know, my wife was wanting me to maybe like start a business, but then I'm like, well, it's a side gig. I wouldn't like start a landscaping business if I'm going like mowing yards.

So, I was just I don't know.

>> Why does your wife want you to start a business?

>> No, it's not necessarily start a business, but if I'm kind of like all in doing it, >> like I have a good job with plenty of room for advancements. It's just like instead of like one little side gig doing whatever, I can potentially make more. >> So, what's the why behind all of this?

>> Uh, getting out of debt.

>> Okay, great. Now, we have a why. We have a reason to go do this. That's good. And then the it becomes the how now. And the how is all right, I got to set up the LLC. I'm going to start that. You don't need to go crazy, but you just need a few protections in place so that this doesn't reach into your personal life.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. This is not a lot of money we're talking about. It's a little bit of time, but again, it's more protection so that you can with peace of mind go do the welding, you know?

>> Okay. >> So, it doesn't have to be this full-blown I have to commit to, you know, a P&L statement. No, keep it simple and just go, you know, I'm going to see if I can get five to 10 welding jobs in a month or whatever it is you're trying to do. >> That's the idea. But this is this is all about just making sure that if something were to happen that you're protected.

>> Okay. Yeah, appreciate it. And I love the, by the way, love the spunk. I love this. More people should be doing this.

Uh that you're willing to go out and do this. In fact, real quick before we let you go, how much debt do you guys have?

What's the total?

>> Uh including the house, it's a little over 101,000.

>> Take the mortgage out. How much do you have? >> Uh 17 a little over 17,000.

>> What do you anticipate making as a welder on the side?

Um, I'm just trying to do like another 2,000 a month.

>> Fantastic. >> On top of >> what I Right now I'm right now I'm between like harvest and like planting.

So there's no real general overtime and I also don't want to do this forever. So that way >> So if you made an additional 2,000 a month welding, how much are you guys out of your current income and budget putting towards debt? That's 17,000.

um current well with the minimum payments we're at 780

um a month with all those payments and then I just like we just started like a budget and plan so um cut a bunch of

subscriptions and everything and so we're currently amping that up right now and so we're looking for excess money and stuff like that. >> Yeah. So, the reason I was walking you through this is, you know, what's the total amount of money now that you guys are in a budget out of your current income that we can put extra? So, is it $500 a month extra we can put on the $17,000 of debt using the debt snowball?

And George, I mean, making an extra two grand. >> Yeah. If you just use side hustle money, you'd be done in about 8 months. But if you can use your your personal income as well and create margin there, let's make it a kind of an audacious goal to go, could we be done in four or five months >> with our current income plus the side hustle money that will really fuel the the fire here, no pun intended, >> uh as you begin this mobile welding business.

>> And while we're cheering you on and pumping you up and, you know, saying, "Hey, do this, do this," I'd keep the side hustle going and knock out baby step three. >> Get that 3 to 6 months expenses. Let's go.

you get to baby step four, George. And mentally, if he's gazelle with this this side hustle, >> explain what happens to him mentally, emotionally when he gets baby step two and three done in a short order. Think about that. Then you have all the margin you were throwing at those things now becomes your money to build wealth, to

go on vacation, to upgrade the car, to create a maintenance and repair fund.

And who knows, maybe the welding business you go, I could do this full-time. I'm enjoying it. I can be my own boss. I'm good at this.

I could scale this thing. And you'll have that kind of flexibility once you're debtree with the emergency fund. All right, let's have that have some fun with that one, George. All right, let's say he does everything you just described.

He realizes, wait a second, I think I can make somewhere. I'm going to keep an easy round number 50,000 again next year, but I hire a couple buddies, blah blah blah blah. I pay them. Where's that extra 50?

Well, now it's all right. I'm investing 15%. I'm going to knock out the mortgage, which you guys don't have a huge mortgage. We can knock that out in a few years. And now we're going, we can amp up. We can max out our retirement accounts, invest beyond that, take trips we never dreamed of, be more generous.

And so your life just opens up to a whole new realm of possibilities by following these steps. Gregory, we just looked into your future and George says you're rich. The crystal ball says he's going to be okay.

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All right. If you are wondering where

did all my money go, that's normal and

normal's broke. But this is the year.

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Like having one of us to answer your question. Of course, you get all the great budgeting um uh applications and

all the helps and prompts. And this is crazy. They've proven this. Unbelievable. I've seen it. You'll find thousands of dollars on average that you can save in just the first 15 minutes of giving it a run. So don't go another year feeling broke and stressed. Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to John in Los Angeles. John, how can we help? >> Hey, gentlemen, thanks for having me on.

>> Sure. What's going on today?

So, my girlfriend and I were um we own a

home and we're pretty much breaking up and I want to know what's the most [clears throat] fair way to split the net amount from the sale of the home.

>> Are you both on the uh title?

>> Yes. >> What about the mortgage?

>> Yes. >> All right. What are you going to sell it for?

>> Um we're going to sell it for about 625.

um we owe about 510 on it and after

closing cost and everything, we're thinking we can walk away with about 95,000. >> All right. And let's talk about who put in what. So, who paid the down payment

>> and how much? >> So, we bought the home almost 3 years ago. Uh the down payment was 40,000.

Down payment closing cost was 40,000. I put in 35. She put in five.

>> Okay. Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy.

>> Throughout throughout the time too um

that we've lived here, we've done renovations and I've uh we do keep our finances separate. Um but uh throughout

the the time that we've owned the home in the last couple years, I've put in about 35 36,000. So >> on top of your 35 >> on top of my 35. Yeah.

>> And I know the answer, but we have to ask how much has she put into renovations?

No, nothing. >> Oh boy. >> Okay. So, you're obviously getting the money that you put into it back.

>> She'll get the money she put into it back and then you guys could split the rest.

>> Well, on paper, George. Yes.

>> On paper. [laughter] >> So, legally, I mean, legally, she we own it 50/50, right? And she gives me a hard time, um, then I'm not even going to argue it. I'm just going to say, you know what, forget it. It is what it is.

50/50. Um, but I just want to make sure

that I'm not crazy because what I think it's fair, and that's the key word, it's that I recoup my money.

>> She recoups her money, which is 5,000.

>> And um and whatever that difference is, we go down 50/50 on that.

>> That's what I just said, right?

>> Oh, sorry. I misunderstood.

>> Yeah. So, I got I I did quick math probably wrong, but I got 70,000 coming back to you, right?

>> Correct. >> 5,000 to her. And so if we walk away with 90, we got 15 to split.

>> Mhm. >> And so did I pick up you saying if she

uh gives me a hard time? So you've not talked to her about what we're going to do with the proceeds?

>> We have not. No.

>> Do you think it's going to be a shock to her or where is she at? Where do you think she's at mentally on this?

>> I think from a mental standpoint, um

she's logical, too. And I and I think deep down she knows that's that's the first thing to do. But I think from an emotional standpoint, she'll give me a fight over that. And quite honestly, I'm

>> Well, here we go. >> Here's the I got to dig. I can't help myself. I'm like a moth to a flame. Uh, who broke up with who?

>> I'm breaking up with her. >> Yeah, that's problematic.

I still think the numbers are right, but I'm just trying to keep it real. The audience in the lobby's with me. It's going to be a knockout drag down fight on the way out. >> Were you a gentleman about it?

>> Yes. Uh we've gone a couple therapy.

>> Um we've done quite honestly this has

been ongoing for like 3 months or so. Um

where I've I've been ready honestly I've

been ready to walk away for 3 months but I've also been trying to work it out too. >> Okay. >> Um >> are we officially done with therapy? The breakup is done. This is all finalized.

Yes.

Uh, it will be pretty soon.

>> What What does the written agreement say if there is one? >> Hold on. Do you How do you just move on so quickly? >> Well, clearly it's over.

>> It's not. He hasn't done it yet. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Correct. >> Is she listening to this call? I hope not. >> She's about to find out the hard way.

>> I hope not.

>> No, she's not. >> What's going to happen when you say, "Hey, it's over." Is she even going to be willing to sell the house? Cuz that's another part of this problem. >> Yeah. If I'm hurt, I'm going to go, I'm squatting. I'm not going anywhere.

>> Why would you be like that out of just anger? >> I mean, >> when you're hurt, that's what you do.

>> Yeah. I mean, she could, and I don't I don't foresee that happening. Um, I think in good faith, she seemed that I've been giving it a a shot. Uh, to give you more uh details of our relationship, quite honestly, I was ready to propose to her like 5 months ago, 6 months ago. Um, but I've seen a lot of changes in the last couple months that made me um change my mind. Um, to

the point that it's like I don't want to waste her time or my time and we shouldn't even have bought this house in the first place. >> Well, that that we all agree.

>> Not married. >> Wish you could have called us before, but you know, too little too late. It's fine. Well, >> a little a little too late. But, um, what do you call it? I think to give you more context, uh she went to nursing

school uh throughout the the time uh throughout the last year. So, um she's an RN now uh with no debt. And I took

over. We were pretty much 50/50 on our

bills for the most part. We never not to the nickel, but for the most part, right, the bigger bills. Um and I sustain our household too throughout that time. So, I think I think she's logical and I think she's fair.

So, to going back to the point of it if she gives me a hard time of not wanting to sell and all that stuff, I really don't see that. I don't think it would be >> a nasty breakup, but I mean, but if it comes down to it, honestly, I make I make decent money and you want to play that game, go for it.

>> We'll take Judy. We'll let her handle it. >> Wow. This just went from like you just went from hey if she gives me a hard time I fold 50/50 to now you're like

let's go >> pony up with some lawyers. >> I don't know where this is going. John, here's the deal. Uh appreciate you telling us this here. Here here's here's my advice on this one.

>> I absolutely believe that you ought to put out what you think is fair. Uh how you choose to debate that. I'm not going to get in the middle of that. Uh, hope it's not ugly. But I do think you should say, um, hey, but I wouldn't do it right

away because you've been in counseling and you've shared with us. I love that you shared it, but for three months you've been checked out and she's got to

be either blindsided or just knows that this is coming. I don't know which way it's going to go. Doesn't matter to this call other than to say when the breakup

is done. And you got to give that a little space, George, is what I'm recommending. and then say, "We need to sell the house, and here's how I think it ought to go." Uh, and maybe a good

idea for you to get a session with your therapist who's been counseling the two of you, and maybe get some advice on how to how to maybe play this thing out because that person hopefully has been very, very objective in sitting with the two of you and might be able to help.

That that would be the ultimate ideal way to handle it. George, what do you add? What do you delete? Well, I mean, assuming all of that goes decently well, then it becomes how are we going to split this? And I just want to know, do you have things documented? Your contributions, is there a written agreement? All of that.

>> No. No. If she wants to play hard ball, I I I don't have legally I don't have a leg to stand on. [clears throat] And we if she wants to play hard, we would have to split it 50/50 and I'm out of that.

>> But it's just that's a handshake agreement that we would split a 50/50.

And what does 5050 mean >> based on contributions? Because you never talked about that and it's not written.

>> Sorry. I guess what I'm saying is going back to your question of do I have anything written as far as how much I put down, how much I put into renovations. No. And no, I I don't. If she wants to play hard ball uh from the net proceeds from the sale of the home, I don't have a leg to stand on. And my best case scenario is at that point we'll split it 50/50 from the net proceeds and I'm probably out 20 25,000.

>> I mean I would start collecting some receipts of the you know the con the labor I paid and all. I mean you can't just give up now. >> Yeah, I agree. >> I wouldn't leave 70 grand on the table.

>> Uh-uh. And I'd be real nice. I mean real

nice in breaking up with her. Yikes.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thrilled to have you with us. 888255225

is the phone number to jump in. Let's go to Zach in Houston, Texas. Zach, what is

going on?

Hey guys. Um, my question is, is it

financially okay or responsible for my

wife and I to get a golf club membership?

>> Well, that's just too simple of a question. H [laughter] how are we to know? Uh, so let's start here. George, I

know that you're itching to start asking questions here. What do you want to know? >> I want to know where you're at financially. >> So, do you guys have any debt?

>> Our only debt is our mortgage on our house. >> Okay, >> good sign. Zach, it's looking up so far.

>> You got one green light. Let's talk about your savings. How much do you have saved?

>> Um, saved like liquid.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. About five months worth of emergency fund.

Okay, another good sign, Zach. Things are looking really good. >> Household income.

>> About 215,000.

>> Hey, tell him what he's won. George, >> I I still need to know more.

>> You are such a crush. I'm so excited for you to get on the course.

>> Zack, we're three for three, but I'm going to play this out with George.

>> Well, I mean, is this a, you know, is this >> Well, go with your question. >> Is it 500 bucks a month or is it 200 grand for the initiation? >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. That's the question. >> We'll get to that. What else do you need? >> I want to know what your net worth is. >> Okay. >> My net worth is about 370K if you

include the equity in the home and retirement accounts. >> Yeah. And how and how old of a young guy are you? >> Uh my wife and I are 28.

>> I knew it. Cool. Yeah. You good, by the way? Good golfer. >> Yeah. Are you good? That's another question.

>> I'm pretty good. Yeah.

>> What's your handicap?

>> It's about a 10. >> Oh, for heaven's sakes. This guy, this guy's chomping at the bit. He's paid his dues. Zach needs membership. Okay, tell us what it's going to cost.

>> Okay, it has a $1,000 initiation fee.

>> Oh, for crying out loud. They don't even make those that cheap anymore. It's fantastic, Zach.

>> The problem is is it's like 500 bucks a month. >> Okay, who cares? Oh, look at this.

Georgie boy. >> I mean, as a percentage of your takehome. >> I agree. But you're worried about the 500 a month. I'm thrilled over the thousand initiation. You can't find that. Is this a goat track or a nice place? >> It's a pretty nice place, but it is semi-private and semi-public.

>> Okay. Well, are there any minimums as far as like food and beverage? Is this like a fancy country club vibe?

>> Um, there clubhouse is really nice, but

no, there's no minimums. >> Okay, this is an absolute slam dunk.

Yes, you can afford this. The bigger question is what does she get to do with 500 bucks of fun money a month for her?

>> I guess whatever she wants, but she's been getting into golf, too. So, this would cover both of us. >> Whoa. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Now, we're bonding as a couple. This is wonderful. >> I don't like how you quickly went to what does she get for Why do you got to be so >> I'm putting myself in her shoes. Well, that was my next question. She's in favor of this. Is that right, Zach?

Um, well, we both grew up really frugal and so the 500 bucks a month is like

it's like a pain to spend, you know, >> for for for your wife as well.

>> Yes. >> But but is she for this or is she against it for I know the pain's there,

but assuming you've talked about it before this call.

>> Yes, we did talk about it and she seemed pretty excited about it. >> Oh, well, this is a no-brainer. Um, this is just because you guys have never spent this kind of money on something like this before. It's brand new. But I'm telling you, the first month, oh, I

don't know, about day two or three where you guys go out together and the weather's nice and you're in the golf cart, got a little snack, maybe you hit some good shots that day. It's a distant memory. You Your brain will adjust to

that spend pretty quickly, right, George? Most 28-year-old dudes are spending double that on a truck payment every month. And so I want you to feel better about your decision, making $215,000 completely debtree except for the house.

I mean, it's a small percentage of your income of your world. And as long as you guys are doing everything else right, you're, you know, paying down the mortgage, investing for your future, then uh the 500 bucks, you'll you'll start flexing that spending muscle to where it doesn't feel as crazy over time. >> I got a little something extra here before we let Zach go. Okay, Zach, I have you thought about the ROI on this $500 a month.

>> I have not. >> Can I tell you? I wrote a book called The Proximity Principle, >> but forget the book in the title, just the word proximity. You being at places where other wealthy couples, wealthy men, business people are frequenting, and it's the country club.

You never know where the conversations turn and the 6,000 you're going to spend and you gladly do it. and you say, "This is about us. This is about recreation, which is good." Very well could turn into some huge opportunities in your life.

Whether you believe me or not, I'm right. You hang out at country clubs.

Good things happen. >> I sadly agree with Ken. >> Thank you very much. >> I don't go to country clubs, but if I did, I'd be a wealthier man. >> Well, I have invited you before. How many times did I invite you to come play golf at Legends, and you never showed up? Once, maybe? >> Maybe once. I think after the first one you went, "This guy's doesn't have us.

He's not coming." >> You could have driven the golf cart.

>> Now that I would do. >> Well, we gave you that option. Let's go to James in Dallas, Texas. James, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's going on? >> Yeah, I uh work a sales job and so my

income fluctuates pretty dramatically throughout the year. I end up making good money, but uh I have to keep money

set aside to go through the lean months.

So, I'm new to Dave Ramsey, so I do have

some debt and I'm trying to figure out, do I need to keep the, you know, which I

keep about six months of expenses in an

account. Do I need once I pay off my debt, do I need to get an additional 6

months or so of like emergency fund money or would you guys consider that to be the same? And anything above that number, I go and and invest in retirement accounts. I like keeping them separate. I like what you're doing now.

I kind of call it a peaks and valleys fund because you have that low month. You can float by and take it out of there instead of your emergency fund because we know it's not an emergency.

It's not unexpected.

>> And so I I would aim to have both. I like what you're doing. Keep your peaks and valleys fund right now. Pay off your debt, then build an emergency fund outside of that. And as far as that peaks and valleys fund, I would look at 2025 and go, "Hey, what was my deficit?

What was the biggest deficit I had in a single month?" And I would keep that plus a little bit of buffer in there.

>> Okay. >> I don't think you need six months of expenses. That feels over the top.

>> I think you'll see, hey, I didn't have a Z month, but I did have a few months where I needed to pull three grand out to cover my bills.

>> Yeah. >> And once you're debtree, your bills also get lower. So, that's nice.

>> You can be a little more lean.

And then once I do have my debt paid off

and I invest 15% into retirement

accounts, I have a mortgage. Should I

throw that money at my mortgage or I've also considered starting a side business but not going into debt with it? What do you >> Yeah, those are all separate things that are all good to do. So, invest 15%. If you have extra money on top of that, throw extra on the principle of your mortgage and you can start that side business.

Just do it with cash. Start slow and as it grows and you get this kind of bonus money, you can throw that at the mortgage too or reinvest in the business. >> Yeah, I like it. James, good, good question.

Love that he's doing the discipline thing here. >> Yeah, >> as a salesperson with that irregular income, you can win with it.

Great advice. And you got to love it, James, when when when the ultimate worrier, Mr. Money Anxiety himself, tells you, "I'm carefree. This is what you need to do. I'm a new man. Take that to the bank.

Welcome to 2026. Last year is officially in the rear view and you're fired up to finally make some changes with your money. New year, new goals. We love it.

But let's be honest, old you said the exact same thing last January and the January before that. And before you know it, those money goals fizzle out faster than the fleeting flavor of Lacroy. So here's the truth. New year motivation only gets you so far. You need an actual plan. And the good news is you don't have to figure it out on your own. Every Dollar builds a personalized plan based on your goals and your real life. And it actually coaches you to stick with it.

Plus, the Every Dollar app will help you find extra money hiding in your budget.

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[music]

Oh, the live like no one else cruise is

back, folks. For all of you who are living debtree, we'd love for you to think about and actually join us in the Western Caribbean. Do you say Caribbean or Caribbean Joy? >> It switches based on my mood to be honest. By the way, I asked the good folks that are natives of the Caribbean and they told me, "Damn, they said it's Caribbean." >> So, it is Pirates of the Caribbean is accurate. >> That is correct. That's how you say it.

Uh, this is the only cruise where you can hang out with us and Dave for seven days in paradise enjoying poolside chats. [laughter] Sorry. The way this is written as though you're going to enjoy a poolside chat with Dave. That's [laughter] what if that's what you're looking to do, you might be sorely disappointed. >> It's not going to happen. I want to go ahead and put that out there. He's not going to sit by the pool and chat with you. >> George, on the other hand, might.

>> I'll be tanning for sure. >> George likes to. [laughter] >> Oh, man. You can find Ken on the pickle ball court. >> Yeah. As a matter of fact, my favorite thing to do on this boat, it's the same boat that we went on last time and there's a pickle ball court on the top of the ship. >> Deloney will be in the workout room.

Rachel will be in the spa. And you you'll know where to find us. Where are you guess? >> Are you by the pool? >> I'll probably be at the coffee shop trying out different espressos. >> Yeah, I was going to say I think the first my favorite memory of the cruise uh was day two. who I think we were out at sea as I recall and I ran into George

uh around the pool and he had he had so

much sunscreen on him I thought that he had a mask on.

>> It was my natural skin tone.

>> You know you're supposed to rub that in.

>> Oh, >> you just slather it on as though someone basted you with mayonnaise. >> I figure it works better if it's slathered. That's what I found to be true on Google. >> Well, and just rub it in for the rest of us. It was a little alarming. I thought you were having some kind of reaction.

But anyway, that was one of my favorite memories. Hey, you don't want to wait.

You ready for this? The ship is already over halfway full. Uh, and the Neptune

suites have already sold out, so take that for what it's worth. >> Those are sweet. >> Lock in your spot with a $600 deposit

before it's too late. You can click on the link in the show notes or go to ramseyolutions.com/events.

By the way, I will tell you it was a lot of fun and I am not a cruise guy, but I

had a blast and >> it's the only way I can take a vacation is wait for the next Ramsay cruise with a, you know, infant and toddler.

>> Yeah. >> Hey, I got to go for work, sir. >> By the way, you know, you were not bringing the dogs. >> No dogs allowed. >> No dogs on the ship. Nobody wants to see your dogs. Forget it. Specifically your dogs. >> Uh Ryan is up in Kansas City. Ryan, how can we help? >> Hey guys, I'm super excited to talk to you. Um, my wife and I are having a little bit of a disagreement. Uh, >> oh, >> I I have an opportunity to go for a

promotion here in the next couple of months, and I am 37, and so my belief is

is that I should still be going for promotions and fighting hard to improve my career. Uh, my wife really wants me to stay where I am, and the reason is is that I've got a pretty large amount of anxiety that I've had to have bouts with previously from my time in the service. And I in this position have not had any problems with my anxiety. I have been really

great at this job and it's one of the few things that I, you know, like I feel like I can just do well. Um, >> what do you, let me jump in really quick. What do you think are the reasons? Is there some evidence that both you and your wife could agree on as to why you've not experienced these anxiety uh, breakouts and some of the symptoms in this particular job?

>> Yeah. So the easy answer to that is is that I've got the team here is great and

my manager is super supportive of me. My

manager has a very strong opinion on mental health. He prioritizes it. So he

he also lets me kind of have open-ended

uh goals for me to go after. So I'm I'm a project lead and and so I'm able to pick and choose kind of the projects that I want. Um, and so these have been big opportunities for me and I've done very well at them. And I think also a little bit of my success has led to my I

I guess my mental health being a lot better. >> Okay. And have you been doing therapy this whole time as well?

>> No. >> Have you done therapy before?

>> No. Uh, >> okay. Now, here's the deal. I'll let you off the hook. Okay. But listen, I didn't ask I don't want this for a second for you to feel like I put you in a corner.

Here's why I'm I'm asking. Because [snorts] if you've won and you've had very little anxiety issues in the current role, you just told me why. And you've been able to do that without any kind of help because you've had some obviously trauma serving our country, which by the way, you're a great American. Thank you for serving our country.

Um but but if you've been able to do this by the circumstances and certainly the manager and how the manager has led you, these are some good signs.

if this promotion that I have before me, are the circumstances and the manager going to be similar? That question number one. So what's the answer?

>> No, it's going to be a completely different It's going to be a big change.

I would be on a different team, different division, everything. Okay.

But but I get that. But have you in the

interview process asked enough questions to be able to figure out if the work flow will be similar?

>> Um I didn't really I looked into it outside of the interview process. Uh at the next step up it's it's going to be a

lot more customer focused and so I'm I'm going to be customerf facing a lot more. So the expectation is is it's going to be very different in my I mean the workload's going to be a lot heavier which is good and I don't mind that but >> okay but my point is is you have evidence that should now become a list

and these are the reasons why you think you've not had any anxiety episodes and you've been able to be pretty healthy mentally in this current role. It doesn't have to be apples to apples but I but I do think it's worth digging a little deeper on this especially with your wife having a concern. And I want to bring George in uh cuz I think he has a unique perspective on this. Are you're listening to this uh your thoughts on this? >> I think there's an assumption that the leap would would lead to anxiety. And

the other part to think about is okay, let's assume there is going to be and let's plan ahead for that and let's figure out how to manage that if it does happen, but I wouldn't skip over this promotion just out of kind of comfort.

That also scares me and I think that can lead to a lot of regret on on its own end. And you there's an assumption too that the grass is not going to be as green as it is now. And I would be asking questions like Ken said, hey, what's the leadership style over there?

What's the team dynamic like? What is going to be the amount of time I'm interfacing with customers? And then we go, okay, now we have a better picture. We have some clarity. Is this worth the leap for the added responsibility and paycheck? >> Have you talked to your current manager about this promotion?

Yeah. So, I'm I'm very open with him about everything that I'm looking at.

>> Here's why I asked the question. I would want to sit with him and go, "Hey, you have been phenomenal and created an environment uh and certainly a workflow that has helped me. What do you think about me taking this role? Have you done that?"

>> Yeah. So, yes, he his statement was was you should, you know, at your age, you should still be going for promotions. you should still be trying to work your way up the ladder. Um, >> I agree.

>> But he did tell me he did tell me he goes, "Hey, you know, this next step is going to add a lot more stress onto you." And I know that's something you struggled with in your past. >> Okay? >> You know, if you stay here for longer, there may be options deep, you know, deeper in the future, but I think we've all heard that before. >> Yeah.

So, here's here's what I'm telling you.

Now is the time for you to actually go get that help. get the tools in place now. >> Get the tools and go, I've got I just kind of walked into a situation where it really helped me, but if I'm walking, I need the ability to be able to deal with the past trauma and how that affects me. I would get into therapy instantly. Can I ask what the jump in pay is? What are you making now? What would you be making?

>> Yeah, so I'm I'm making 107 and my wife

also makes around the same. And then uh the jump in pay would be to 120 to about 125. But I've also got disability coming

from uh the army which is 24k a year.

>> Wow. That gives you some options. It really helps you progress with your financial future. Do you guys got some goals ahead?

>> Well, yeah. So, I've been listening to the show for like two and a half months and uh I've always believed that debt was kind of a bad thing, but my wife got a brand new truck. We're going to pay that off. Um, and so right now we're we're looking to pay that off and my goal is is to have that paid off within the next year to [music] 18 months.

>> Nice. You got you got a new Y now.

>> But I do think you need to seriously address with her what you're going to do uh to make sure that you have the tools to be able to handle any stress and anxiety with this new role. [music] I think that's a fair question for her and she's asking cuz she cares about you.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

All >> [music]

>> right, in the lobby here at our Ramsey headquarters, we've got Randy and Erica

on the debt-free stage. Welcome.

>> Thank you. Hello. >> Where are you guys in from? >> Uh Boise, Idaho. >> Boisey, Idaho. Okay. Welcome. Welcome.

Welcome. All right. Let's hear the numbers. How much debt did you pay off?

>> 380,000. $380,000

in 13 years. >> In over 13 years. Okay. And what was the

range of income? >> 100,000 to 200,000.

>> Okay. What do you guys What do you guys do for a living? >> I'm a school principal. >> Okay. >> I'm an occupational therapist.

>> Okay. Wow. Fantastic. All right. So, what kind of debt are we talking about?

>> OUR HOUSE. >> OH, WHAT ARE THOSE people [laughter] over there? peaking suspicion. I was like, "That amount of money over that amount of time feels like they were knocking out that mortgage." >> That's right.

That's right. >> That's incredible. >> They would want us to call you weird people, right? >> I won't do that.

I'll leave that to Dave. >> I felt like we had to do it. I only say that because I know he's thinking it somewhere. Yes.

>> We're the weirdest people around right now. So, >> that's that's a fact. >> All right.

>> 900,000 approximately.

>> Oh my goodness. And what do you guys got in your nest egg? >> Uh, another 700,000.

>> Oh my goodness. We are going to baby steps millionaires. That's not even including pensions and cars and who knows what else. That's incredible.

Cash. I want to point out this is a man who's in education. So, I mean it can be done, can it not? >> Definitely.

>> And you did it. >> All right. We That's right. You did it together.

>> Yep. >> Uh, so what took place? What was the impetus 13 years ago to say we're going to pay our house off? >> Um, it was the feeling of panic, I guess, would be best describe um what happened.

We um we needed to buy five plane tickets for a funeral for my father.

put it on credit. We just didn't have anything in savings. We didn't we never

planned anything ahead. We were not prepared for anything. Car broke down, whatever. We would just have to put it on credit. And you know, it was a major

kick in the stomach knowing we knew this day would come and we just we just weren't ready. And it was pretty horrible to have to worry about money at that time instead of being with our family. So um I think from that moment

on is when we seriously said we have got to do something and we got back from that trip and a friend had done financial peace or had knew about Dave Ramsey and we had no idea who he was and

she talked us into doing the financial peace class. So that's kind of when the whole thing started. >> So who did you get the idea from the friend together or did one of you get it and had to bring it home to the other?

Yeah, it was a parent at my school.

>> Okay. >> And um became fast friends and we took

the class with them and then Erica went on to teach >> as soon as it was over. I taught a class at at our um at his school. He worked at

a Catholic school so we taught the class there and we were just like we just have

to it just helped our fire, you know, just kind of doing that. >> Yeah. It's it's hard to not stay accountable when you're teaching the stuff, telling everyone else to do it, right? like we got to be doing it first.

>> Yeah. And it was incredible. >> It was tough. Like in the beginning when this the lesson where you have to cut up your credit cards, he was like, "Nope, not doing that. >> This guy's gone too far. This Dave guy." >> Oh, I love that. So, you're in the class together and that lesson pops up and you're like, "Whoa, this is a bridge too far." >> Yeah. It was a gut check. And years ago, Dave said it's um usually one credit

card that you have a hard time cutting up. And for me it was it was uh my first credit card. My dad provided it for me.

Sure. >> And um I don't know why it had strings attached. >> Sentimental. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But uh cut up the American Express and

and we were go >> right. But every every class I remember it was like okay we need to do that.

Like we we we had done nothing. I mean every class we learned something and then went home and did it. And from that moment forward, it just kind of, you know, it's went from there. So, >> so how do you stay motivated 13 years?

You know, I'm sure there was some fits and starts and some great seasons and some seasons where you're like, we're not making much progress here. What was it like? >> And one of those the season that we really turned it on was co. Um, obviously as educators, uh, we still

>> were lucky. We were lucky. We still had our jobs. I was a school occupational therapist, so I worked in the schools.

He was working in the schools and when others were struggling with no income, we still had ours and we weren't spending money on anything. And at the same time, he was able to get extra jobs teaching online, teaching night school,

>> doing school, u deficient in credits. Uh

took a few jobs. One was a a lift operator at our local ski mountain. The worst job I've ever had. Really? Why is that? I I don't know much about that.

>> It's You're cold and you're seeing people having a blast uh skiing in powder and you're saying >> there's your chair. [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Okay. I was picturing you like maybe on some type of a, you know, lever or stick and if somebody was particularly smug, you just [laughter] put it stop and they fall off. I didn't know if that ever happened. >> Okay. Good, good, good. And uh um

lumberyard some a lot of jobs in Erica also. >> Good for you. I worked probably for 10

years uh every weekend doing um therapy

in rehab settings like in adult rehab.

So I worked in the schools and then when I had summers and Christmas off I would pick up work doing extra at adult rehab

so that I could make extra income. So >> yeah, you know, I just thought of something I wanted to ask ask you both, but certainly Randy, you know, here you are in esteemed position, you know, in what you do >> and here you are operating a lift, working in a lumber yard. And I think there are people that are listening and watching you both right now.

>> And George, you mentioned this earlier in the show. You talk about pride and we all have pride, but pride can really, you know, rear its ugly head when you need to swallow your pride and do what it takes. What would you say to people because you I'm sure you dealt with that. What would you say to people that are feeling that because right now they're out driving, delivering something or doing something they feel a little shame over, >> right? Um there's no no feeling like

being debtree and u we had our last

mortgage payment in September >> and it was we were giddy >> and our kids have been so supportive but you're right it was a lot of pride swallowing. Um Erica was always there to say you know let's stay focused. Um, I can rem distinctly remember a day. It was about 105 working out in the lumber yard and flies are everywhere and I'm thinking, what am I doing? I'm, you know, 52 years old and picking this up.

>> Just to add, sorry, I don't mean to step on you. Um, when you get your paycheck though and you can use that to pay for

all the the extra principal or all the

utilities instead of something else, like it it kind of helps to take away that like it was brutal getting up at 5:30 in the morning to go to work for 6 hours, but when I got my paycheck, >> I felt like I did something and it made a difference. >> You got like a little dopamine hit. You go, "All right, that was worth it. I got some instant gratification here after all my hard work." Yeah.

>> I just love that Randy is either sweating or freezing with all the [laughter] side hustles. >> Did you not pick something a little more temperate?

>> Ken and I are indoor cats. So, we're >> really We don't do well outside of this air controlled studio. All right, real quick. Tell people what the key to getting out of debt is.

>> Go ahead, Eric. [sighs] >> H um you have to get to that moment where you are just like Dave says, sick and tired. And you when you get there, there's nothing that's going to stop you. You're going to just do it.

If you're ready, you're gonna do it and you're gonna be gazelle intense and it's gonna sustain you and you're gonna make it there. >> Love that. Yeah. >> Who are some of your biggest supporters on this journey?

>> Our definitely our kids. Um I got to throw in there our kids were um they didn't really tune in.

20 and um it didn't hit them until they

were going to college which we cash flowed completely and um where they had

Roths set up they were working they were putting money in and then they realized

hey we're close to being debtree and they were talking about going to school and uh with a with a a fellow a friend

who's $100,000 in student debt and that's when it really clicked for them.

So they've been our biggest >> how blessed and privileged they are and you guys change your family tree.

>> I think they realize how lucky they are.

>> All right. I hope so. So this is the moment you guys will work so hard. This is the emotional finish line right as you get ready for the scream. Here we go. This is fun. We got Randy and Erica from Boise, Idaho. They paid off 380,000 in 13 years, making 100 all the way up to 200,000. Randy, Erica, take it away.

Let's hear your debtree scream. Three, two, one. WE'RE DEAD.

THERE WE GO. [cheering] They did it, George. >> So fun, isn't it? >> I keep thinking of Thomas Jefferson. I'm a I'm a great believer in luck. The harder I work, the more luck I have.

>> There it is. >> I like that. Even if it's in the lumber yard or on that ski lift raising your butt off. Hard work creates luck. And they've uh created that for themselves.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramiesolutions.com/realestate.

Our

[music]

scripture of the day comes from Romans 13:8. Owe no one anything except to love

each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

I love you, George. Thank you. I appreciate that. I love you, too, Ken. There you go. No debts owed, just love.

That's it. It's all we got between us. >> I'll put that on a shirt or stitch it on [laughter] a pillow.

>> And our quote of the day from Mark Twain. Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first.

That's a sick burn from Twain. >> You have to love him cuz he was the original snark. >> If Twitter was around, he would be the number one tweeter out there. >> Uh, bonus points.

Little known fact, some people will care. What is his real life name? Oh, I know this in the back of the recesses of my mind. Is it Charles?

>> I think somebody in the booth does somebody in a booth know. I'll give them credit. >> All right, hit us. >> No, nobody has.

>> Samuel Clemens. >> For those keeping score at home. Hey, you know, I like to bless America every once in a while with a little known fact he can drop at a cocktail party. Maybe or not. >> A trivia night. >> Or trivia night. Yeah, that could come in handy at your local Applebee's.

>> What was Mark Twain's real name? I see that showing up. And I can't on my trivia team. I'm just saying. >> Trust me, you do. Strong in the area of political and uh history and sports and

not bad in entertainment. Uh where I where I'm a real liability is science and math. [laughter] >> Who does trivia around math? That's the worst trivia night. >> I don't know. I don't go to these things. >> Okay. >> Uh Brooks is up in Chicago. Brooks, how can we help?

>> Hi, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. What's going on with you?

So, um, I'll just cut right to the chase. Short story. At age 34, I was diagnosed with stage 4 positive lung cancer. >> Oh my.

>> And I'm [clears throat] 37 now. Um, I have four children. Um, I've been on disability the last year and a half. I did I did start working in October. Um, just two or three days a week, but um, back down to one one day a week now. But my [clears throat] question is, um, I I have a Smart Investor Pro friend that, um, handles my finances, and we were able to do a life, um, Viatical settlement on a $500,000 life insurance policy. Um, my my cancer is terminal, by

the way. >> So, that's why we decided to >> Well, that's why we decided to do it.

Um, and we settled with 29,000.

Um, we it's as of today right now it's

at 228,000 in a brokerage account and I

also have a traditional IRA at 73,000.

Um, over the last 10 years, you know, we've had some debt here and there, but as of today, we are debtree except for our mortgage. >> Wow. >> Um, so my question is, what do I do with my situation? Um, I can give you my like

how much I make a month or whatever you guys need. So, >> how much is uh on the house mortgage?

>> Uh 284,000. It's valued at 599 as of

spring of 2025.

>> Wow, >> man. This is a heavy one.

>> I know you've been sitting with it. Uh

>> what what does your family think about all this? Have you talked to your wife?

Because a pretty there's some big financial decisions to make here, too.

Uh yeah, my wife is um she's on board with whatever um we decide to do together. Um we, you know, have been in it from day one. We've been together for 20 years, married for 14, a high school sweetheart. So, um whatever decision we

do make, we make together.

>> So, what is the the sort of fork in the road as far as financial decisions for you? Um, I guess knowing I have a 10-year-old, 8-year-old, 6, and three-year-old, what to do with the brokerage account? Um, do I let it grow

until I have enough to pay the house off and then do it, or do I let that continue to grow, um, not knowing exact

I mean, I know none of our us know exactly how many days we have, but knowing that I could have, you know, three, five years, you know, or less.

Yeah. >> Or more. And what happens with the brokerage account if you would pass?

>> Um, my wife, it's it's uh it's in the joint brokerage account. >> Okay. So, it' go straight to her and then she can use that to pay off the mortgage. So, that's one option versus taking what's in there now, throwing it at the mortgage, and then using your future income to knock out the mortgage over a period of time.

>> Yes. Correct. >> Man, I would personally, if I was in your shoes, I would just hang on to that brokerage account for now. Mhm. >> You don't have enough to knock out the mortgage and so you're still going to have that payment every month. And so I'm totally good with you just waiting.

If you have enough to knock out the mortgage and it just give you guys peace, then I would do that at that point. >> Okay. >> What did your Smart Investor Pro say? I'm curious.

>> Um I've asked him um once when I before

we got the money. I haven't followed up with him yet cuz we were just kind of letting this grow. Um, but he he

said, you know, to keep hold on to the money as well and let it grow.

>> Cool. Yeah, I like that plan. There's just a lot of variables coming up and who knows how they'll use that money and, you know, what income stream they will have after that. Have you guys thought about that portion? Will any of her disability or your disability go to her? >> She should be able to draw off my um

disability. Yes. if if I pass if I if I understand the the laws and everything, right? Um and then the kids also, it's about they get about $1,000 a month.

>> Okay, that's great. I would make sure to do your due diligence on on how the future income is going to happen. That's more important than just solving the mortgage problem. You want to make sure they can cover all their expenses with or without the mortgage.

But man, these are you don't want to be making these kind of decisions um with your diagnosis. So, I'm so sorry to hear and I'm wishing you the best, the longest life you can have and the best time you can have with your family. >> Yeah, Brooks, we're so very sorry.

It's it's unbelievable that we're even having this conversation with you. Uh you sound like you just got a great frame of mind uh given this unimaginable

situation you're dealing with. So, yeah, this is a lot of communication over these things. Seek the counsel of many.

uh make decisions uh as best you can um

without any time of fear, but just say, "All right, we're going to make the best decision we can make for the future." And uh and let the chips fall where they may. So sorry you're dealing with this. Thank you for sharing a bit of your story with us, Brooks. So so so unbelievable there. Uh let's go to Chris

now in Atlanta, Georgia. Chris, how can we help?

>> Hey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

Um, so I am about $20,000 in the hole on

my current vehicle.

Um, and I'm getting ready to sell my house. Um, I just moved to Georgia from Michigan. I'm closing on Monday. I'm

going to net about $66,000.

>> Okay. And so I'm just wondering, should I just bite the bullet and get rid of this truck?

Um, >> what's the What's the truck worth? >> The best.

>> Uh, it's worth about 35. I just recently

got it appraised and I owe 53.

>> Okay. And what's your income?

>> Uh, right now about 60,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah, this truck has to go, man.

>> If you were making 200 grand and you love the truck, I would say, "Hey, [snorts] just pay it off with the net proceeds of the house and be done." But this truck is just too much of your world.

>> Yeah, I was making closer to uh six

figures when I originally bought it, but that uh that changed.

>> What's the payment on it and the insurance?

>> It is $900 a month for the payment and

another $230 for the insurance.

So, here's the good news. You are going to take a hit and if you can sell it private party, get as much as you can for it, it'll be less of a hit. But that 66k net is going to turn into 46K net

and you'll clear the the loan and the mortgage and sorry, the insurance, which frees you up, 1100 bucks a month for the rest of your life. And then with the other money, you're probably going to need something to drive. So, let's get a $10,000 car, $15,000 car in cash. And

then whatever money is left becomes our emergency fund.

Well, I'm hoping to buy another house

down here in Georgia.

>> Not anytime soon.

>> With what money? Cuz once you cover the deficit, get an emergency fund and buy a different car, that money is is has been earmarked?

>> So, if you do it this way, now we'll have a clean slate financial foundation.

We'll never need to go into debt again.

Then we can begin saving up a down payment. But making 60 grand, it's going to take a while to buy a house where you're going. And that's okay. Move slow. The reason we're here today is because we moved fast and made a lot of assumptions. Let's create some financial peace. You can do it, Chris. Hang in there. Freedom is on the other side of all this. Thanks for the call. Remember folks, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 164. Take Ownership Of Where Your Life Is Headed | February 20, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

The phone number here is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Suzanne is going to start this off in Chicago. Hi Suzanne, how are you?

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Me too. Me too. So, um, okay, my

daughter and her husband have been living in New York City for several years and of course paying, you know, exorbitant rent per month, but their goal is to someday like move out of the city, purchase a home, but for right now, their jobs require them to stay in New York. Okay, so they've now decided that they want to purchase property there to live in and hopefully gain some equity to put toward a house someday.

Okay, so normally I would think, okay, that's fine. But with the current mayor and the administration there, I'm just not so sure this is a good idea. So, because that administration has called property ownership, and I'm quoting, a weapon of white supremacy, and he also said they want to, and I'm quoting again, establish a community land trust to gradually buy up housing on the private market and convert it to community ownership. So, everyone's saying, "Oh, no, that'll never happen.

You're overreacting. that'll you know but I mean things have happened that I never forese saw so I'm just nervous that my daughter and her husband let's say if they bought property would not be able to sell it profitably in the years to come if this happens if it turns into

communal property. So am I wrong to discourage them or am I overreacting like they say?

>> That's interesting.

So I I'm 65 years old. How old are you?

>> 73. Yeah, because I, you know, um

I'm because I agreed with your statement. There's things that have happened in this world that I never dreamed I would see, >> right? >> And some of them have been normalized and I'm really never dreamed I would see that. Um and and then but worse than that, you're evil if you thought that something that was completely freaking crazy has been normalized and you say it's crazy.

When you say it out loud, you get e you get, you know, you're a horrible person and you should be sent straight to hell. And so I this is a weird world we live in for old people like me. >> Yeah. Me too.

Me too. >> So yeah.

the show and Ken does too and all of our guys here, we try to answer the question, what would I do if I were in your shoes? Would I personally buy a

property in New York City today in this

uncertain environment?

>> Yeah.

You know, I the pro the the what I would have to weigh out is whether or not this

goober can actually pull off some of this stupid butt stuff he's trying to do. If I thought he could pull it off, there's no way I would do it. If I thought it's just a pipe dream and there's no chance that socialism survives in New York City, then um you

know that it's just crazy and it's you know it's hyped up in the news and you know it gives Fox News something to talk about and you know if I you know all that kind of stuff. If I thought that, then I would just buy and just move on and not worry about it because, you know, most things work their way out. Particularly real estate ends up working its way out. But it doesn't work its way out if you start stealing property from the private property owner, >> right? >> In the name of virtue.

>> Well, that's what happened in Venezuela.

>> Well, yeah, this we're not a banana republic yet. >> What are they planning? >> What is the current what is the current thing that they're looking at? Where, what, how much?

Why don't they just step out of the city itself and go buy something out on the island or out at Westchester or something? Just step out of New York. >> They they like being right close to >> Yeah, I bet they like it. But I mean, I don't think matter of fact, I don't think they're going to do anything you and I say, too.

By the way, I think they're going to do whatever they're going to do after this conversation. So, >> that's true. >> We're probably wasting our breath.

>> Um >> Um, if it were your daughter, you would say >> I would say I wouldn't do it today.

I'm going to let some of this flame out or gin up. If it flames out, I'm going

to buy. If it gins up, I'm walking out of there.

>> Okay. >> So, same thing's happening with Gen with Goober Newsome. He's adding one more reason to leave California.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. The billionaire tax. And uh it isn't actually him. I take that back. He's come out against it. Some of the other um communists over there. So, there's like we're going to tax billionaires. Let me help you with this.

You can't tax billionaires. They leave.

>> Right. Right. >> And they've been leaving your state like

like a Baptist after a casserole. I mean, they've been getting out of there, you know, and so and so you it doesn't work. But then if you say I can tell you

I have five, six friends in Nashville

that are billionaires that are all former California and they paid cash for multi-million dollar houses with what they saved on California income tax the first year that they left there. I I know one guy that owns a winery over there. It's the only asset he's got left over there and he gives all the wine away every year because he refuses to pay California a dime.

>> He gives it all to charity. I think he announced uh the New York City budget. I think it was yesterday or the day before and it exceeds the entire state of Florida. So, how I think it was 127

billion or something and he said, "Well, how are you going to fund that?" Well, he said, "Not just the billionaires. I'm going to tax everybody." >> Yeah. >> So, welcome to socialism.

>> Yeah. Again, I told you what he was going to do and then you elected him, so you get what you paid for. >> That's right. >> Um, you know, >> but again, you know, things things that I thought would never happen, Dave, have happened.

>> I don't know.

Okay. >> Right. Right. >> And and as long as this flames out. So I I might give it a hot minute and let it see if it flames out or not.

>> I'd probably just push the pause button.

It's not like I'm running out of here with my hair on fire cuz the whole place is going to hell. I don't think that's going to happen. Not quick anyway. It's harder to turn this a ship that size than he thinks it is.

>> I I I really hope you're right. And that's So you would say >> I just say, "Wait a minute. Why don't you Why don't you honestly would go out to Westchester and get outside the city and buy something? Shut up.

You can I'm going to live downtown." Well, get your dad gum car or get a car service and go downtown and then you don't get your property confiscated by a communist. I mean, >> you know, I mean, that's that's not that hard a decision, but uh but they're giving you again, they're not going to do any of this, Susan. So, they're going to do whatever they're going to do. So, it's not they're not going to listen to you or me.

We're just boomers. What do we know?

>> Yeah. But my advice for Susan is dovetailing off of what you said. If you just go in there and you tell tell, there's a low probability that your adult kid is going to go with your advice. I think you've got to take the posture of asking and so not tell and I

can tell you're fired up and you have reserve the right to be fired up, but that's going to go in one ear and out the other. So if I'm you, uh I would be asking really good, thoughtful, critical questions, not with a opinion attached to the question, but enough that they lose sleep at night. This is the form of a good interview. You know, uh if you're doing customer interviews, you want to create questions that customers sit with or uh somebody you're interviewing for a job.

Same deal here.

case, the risk, the the farterm, the

short term, and just ask questions and hopefully they have enough discernment and common sense to see some of the red flags that you see. I think that's the approach I take as a problem with adult children is you don't really get a vote. >> You don't. So ask don't tell.

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Nancy is in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Nancy.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am a single mom uh living in a toxic

environment and I make 1,200 a month right now. How do I get out of this?

>> What is a toxic environment?

Um, I'm staying with my mom. I have two

kids. Uh, and I'm staying with my mom

right now because I couldn't figure out a way to get myself stable housing for me and my kids. >> Okay. And so she let you stay there, but she's a jerk, >> pretty much. >> Yeah. Is that what is that what toxic environment means or is there something else going on?

Well, um I was married and uh got

divorced 10 years ago when my daughter was born. Um she didn't believe me about

the how abusive he was and she ended up

I was living with her after I got divorced and she ended up moving him into the house without telling me.

>> Is he there now?

>> No, he's in jail.

>> Well, there's that. >> He should be going to He should be going to prison for a while. Why?

>> Um CSC charges against my daughter.

>> As well as >> Okay. Does she believe that now since he got arrested?

>> She does, but she keeps saying I can't believe it. I just never saw it.

>> Yeah. Well, she didn't like being wrong.

Okay. So, um >> and it's >> Wow. >> She she doesn't let me parent my kids either, you know. >> Okay. So, the answer to your question is economic. It's your income, isn't it?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. The what I was trying to establish is there's not an emergency.

There's just a unpleasant human being I want to get away from.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Pretty much. Yeah. >> Well, the emergency's in jail.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, now we're down to an unpleasant mother who's not real bright.

Okay. And so, yeah, I you know, but

obviously the issue is your income sucks, right?

>> Yeah. >> So, what are we doing about that, Ken?

Well, I want to know what you're doing now. Where are you getting the income?

>> Well, I have two jobs. I work about

three nights a week cleaning a medical facility for$,750 an hour, which ends up

being about 800 a month.

>> Mhm. >> And then I have a job at a chain store

working. I get 1550 an hour and I work one or two days a week and I'm also taking two college classes.

>> Okay. Well, we need to probably pause the college classes. I'll come back to that in a minute, but most likely we're pausing that because the college classes will be there. What do you need if we could wave a wand right now and gave you take-home pay of what? What's that number that would allow you to move out of mom's house and also have some margin living somewhere else?

>> Uh, well, if I want to stay where I am, I would need 4,000. But if I move where I want to move, I could make it on 1,500

to 2,000 a month. >> I really like that. What's keeping us from moving where you want to?

>> Well, I have to finish out school.

>> No, you don't. No. >> For this semester. Well, if I drop out of college, I lose my fund. Like, I've

I've get the Pell Grant. I get scholarships. And if drop out, I'm afraid I will.

>> Do you want Okay, let me put it this way. Do you want to continue to have a miserable life and be behind the eightball and all the negative things you're experiencing just because of these classes and these grants that I'm telling you to pause anyway? I think you take the loss. We take the loss on the college classes and we move to a better place. We reduce our expenses. We get on

our feet and we start a new life. You've been in massive crisis mode.

>> Fulltime job fulltime career. 40 hours a

week. You work two part-time jobs now and barely making anything.

>> Yeah. >> You need a full-time job in a new place.

And then when we get things moving and there's groceries and lights and rents paid, then we'll think about classes later.

>> Okay. >> By the way, by the way, if you make $80,000 a year, you don't need a PEL grant, >> right? But I How am I going to make $80,000 a year? >> I don't know yet. But we haven't got there. We just got started on this 10 minutes ago. >> We got to get stable before we start planning for the long term. But let's just go there for 30 seconds. >> Don't plan to be poor is my point.

>> What What are you taking these classes for? What what what path was it putting you on? >> Uh bachelor's degree.

>> I know. In what?

>> Wildlife or environmental conservation.

>> Why?

>> Um I looked it up that something that I

would enjoy doing and it 60 to 80,000 a

year. >> Okay, great. Doing what?

>> Who cares if it's 60 to 80? Who pays 60 to 80,000 for a wildlife? What in the world? What are you talking about? You going to work at the zoo?

>> Well, you could. I mean, there's lots of different >> state parks and lots of things. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Lots of things. Especially the state that I would like to move to.

>> Okay. Which is where?

>> Arkansas. >> Okay. So, I'd be talking to them uh for

instance, the park and wreck uh department at the state about what they need to h have somebody hired. And that can become your long-term goal. And your short-term goal is get down there and get a job and have money for food.

>> That's right. >> And get away from all this craziness.

>> And what you might find is that when I move to Arkansas and maybe I'm working at Target or Walmart or whatever, but I'm making good money. I've got some benefits. And then I start to look at what are the nonderee jobs in the Arkansas Wildlife Department. Every state has a uh natural resources

department. So there are government jobs all across the board. And I know this because I worked for the governor of Virginia. So there are jobs in Arkansas that are adjacent to the ultimate job

you want that you might need the degree for. So you're thinking about a ladder right now. Ladder number one, get to Arkansas 40 hours a week, good pay, get margin, lower my expenses, get healthy.

>> Step two. Yeah. Step two, I I look where can I get into a non-deree job in the department of, you know, natural resources. >> Oh, and by the way, they have a program that pays for tuition. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And you don't need a PEL grant. >> So, this is doable, but you got to move, right? You got to make the first step.

Move. >> The reason you're stuck is you have no

income.

>> Yeah. >> That's why you're stuck. >> Well, so when I move, should I rent or

buy? >> Rent. You're broke. Get a roommate.

>> What? >> Rent the cheapest thing you can rent.

>> I cannot get a roommate. >> Okay, bad idea. But it was at least had to be said. >> I don't know why you can't get a roommate. >> All roommates aren't evil sex abusers.

>> That's right. >> Just the one you picked last time.

You can definitely get a roommate. Just cuz your mother's a Froot Loop and you married and you were hanging out with a guy who abused your daughter, that doesn't mean all people are that way.

You just ran into a couple of losers in a row. But that doesn't mean all humans are that way. There's great people out there that need a place to stay and would love being around a lady who's trying to get herself together. So anyway, get get quit saying, "I can't.

I can't. I can't. I can't." And figure out how you can. I can't do this cuz I'm going to lose a Pell Grant.

Well, whoopdedoopy. We just told you why you don't even need it. And then let's get up and get going and get some get some income coming in. And otherwise, you're going to sit there and talk about what this is and what this isn't.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And again, back to the roommate thing and why we suggest that now we take $1,500, which will be your greatest expense, and we cut that in half. And margin for you financially right now is going to turn into emotional freedom.

And emotional freedom is going to turn into confidence. And I'm telling you, Dave and I can hear it on you. You need some confidence. And that's why we're telling you this move is going to absolutely generate confidence.

You're a mama bear. Nobody's stopping you. You're going to take care of those kiddos or your child. And so you've got to channel that.

>> Yeah. That's um and it it is about hope.

>> Yeah. It is about believing that there is a chance that if I do these three things, this is one of these things is going to work. Somehow this is going to work. But and 100% chance this is going

to go get worse if you sit there.

>> You know, if you sit and poop, it's 100% chance it's going to smell.

100% chance. And so, yeah, you got to get up and go, I'm I'm not sitting in this stuff. I'm going to go do something else. I'm going to completely move. I'm not going here anymore. That's right. And and but that's a again you got to there has there's a belief that Ken's talking about that comes with that a confidence that comes with that and it will be multiplied as you start to have some wins cuz it's been a little while since you had a check in the win column.

Most of your checks are in the losing column. >> So you need some checks over in the side where I win. I won that one. I won that one. I won that one. So yeah, if I'm

you, I'm working 16 jobs right now.

piling up some money, loading the car up with the kids and the clothes, and I'm heading to Arkansas.

>> There you go. Just like that.

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You can book a cabin right now. We'd love to have you guys go with us. It's going to be a lot of fun. John's in Charlotte. Hey, John. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, we're me and my wife, we're new to Ramsay. Um, we just got the Every Dollar app kind of plugging things in.

>> Good. Um, and we want to get out of debt

as efficient and quickly as possible.

Um, we have about 40,000 consumer debt on credit cards, 69,000 on a vehicle,

and um, we make about $210,000 a year.

>> How much money do you have in the bank that's not retirement?

>> Uh, we have $17,000 in savings

right now. >> That's it. Um, I was wondering also, should I sell my truck that >> probably kickstart this off?

>> Yeah, probably. I mean, it's the it's the glaring problem in the numbers, isn't it?

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> Yeah. So, here's the formula. Okay. I have a truck that I love, and I'm guessing you like this truck.

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. That's fair. It's okay to like your truck. I've got a I got a Raptor R and it's a freaking beast. I love it. So, um, uh, and I wouldn't want

to sell and I won't want you to sell your truck, but here's the formula that we use, okay? What we've determined from 30 plus years of doing all this stuff is if you have a car that is keeping you from getting out of debt within 2 years, 100% debtree except your house within two years, then you need to sell the car. So, what I'm going to do in that on that basis, if I'm in your shoes, if you're going to use that as your measure, and I suggest you do, um, is you sit down, you say, "Okay, we're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans.

We're not going out to eat." And shut up about buying anything. We're getting out of debt, scorched freaking earth, okay?

No life. We're chopping up the credit cards tonight. We're going to light some candles and have a plastic surgery party. No credit cards, no debt, no fun.

All we do is work and get out of debt.

And if we do that, making $200,000 a year and we lived on $100,000 a year, you would be debtree in one year.

>> Wow. >> Okay, that's the numbers, right? You have 69 plus 40. You have 109,000 in debt. If you're unwilling to cut your freaking lifestyle out of 200 grand far enough to

pay off 109,000 within two years, then yes, you should sell your truck. But you're probably not going to make it even if you sell your truck cuz you're not willing to cut out the stupid butt stuff you've been doing that got you here.

>> Yeah, I think we're ready now. >> Good. I think you are. I think I hear it in your voice.

>> Yeah, >> that's why I said that. I wouldn't have said been that mean to somebody that I didn't think got it. Yeah, I might, but probably not today. But >> 50-50 chance.

>> Yeah. But yeah, I I I think you got it, man. So, I what I'm gonna do if I'm you is I'm gonna say I'm gonna we're gonna go hardcore on this. We're going to drive to ground.

We're going to try to I'm going to work extra. We're not We're not going on vacation. No, we're not buying a couch.

We're going to feed the family. We are going to have a little bit of Christmas, but this family's been living on more than we make, which is absurd. We're not in Congress. We have to stop this, >> right? >> And when you guys get when you and your wife get that and then you start putting that in the Every Dollar app, and it translates into margin in the math, that

that that passion that I'm using in my voice right now translates to margin in the math. and you say, "Okay, we're gonna find $8,000, $6,000, $10,000, whatever it is,

a month to put on this, and we're going

to be done in 14 months or 9 months." Or

you start mapping it out, then you keep the truck. >> Is it worth that level of sacrifice to keep this truck? It might be. It's probably a pretty good truck.

>> Or you're like, I don't know if I want to give up that much. I'd rather give up the truck. Okay, that's cool. give up the truck then.

>> Yeah, the truck uh KBB has it at like $52,000 and it's paid off. So, I'm thinking if I just sell it, then maybe it can take us less than a year to get out of this, right? >> Well, you debt in 20 minutes if you got a $10,000 truck.

52 minus a $10,000 truck pays off the credit cards. You're done.

>> But you still got to fix your freaking spending problem, right?

>> Yeah. >> You still got to learn to live on less than you make. You still got to not be waving those credit cards around like they're money.

>> Yeah, those are done. >> Yeah, but you see what I'm saying? So, if you if you go that route, that's the shortcut out. But make sure you fix the thing all the way at the source so you're never back here again. >> Mhm. >> Right. I got you.

>> Yeah. Hey, how old are you?

>> I appreciate that.

>> 35. >> What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, I'm a truck driver.

>> Yeah. John, I think you're going to do this. I think you got the ability to do this. And I don't care which way you go.

I tell you what you could do. Here's a third suggestion. Suggestion one's gut it out like I talked about. Suggestion two, sell the truck like you talked about and you're out now.

Suggestion three could be a medium. Let's try this for a few months and see how much progress we can make and maybe we can keep the truck. But if we try it for a couple months and it and everybody's whining and everybody's barking and everybody's chirping, then um we still got to fix the spending, but we got to sell the truck, >> right? You could try it for like three months hardcore and see how much progress you make.

See how encouraged you and the spouse become and and then that's okay. I'm okay if you sell it.

But if you want to gut it out, as long as you pay it off in under two years and the credit cards, too, and you fix the problem, I'm okay.

Yeah. I you know, I I think you ought to do what Dave says and I think you ought to try it uh for 90 days and uh hold on

to the emotion of that truck. you like the truck. So, you're going to say yes to the truck by saying no to everything

else you've been doing. That's the mindset switch you've got to do. And I actually like that, Dave. I like that approach.

Uh because you >> resets your brain. >> Yeah. You don't feel the sacrifice uh if you just sell the truck immediately. And we know that you can always go back to it.

But here's the deal. 40,000 in debt. We didn't ask his income. What >> you say?

200. >> Was it 200? I'm sorry, I missed it. Then my point is that could be paid off really quickly anyway.

So, I kind of like the idea of going it's like losing weight. It's like saying I want to lose 50 pounds. Well, there's only one way to do that one day at a time, >> you know, like you don't you're not you're not weeks uh week one looking in the mirror going how am I doing?

>> It is I got to win each day. And I like

that because you and I know there's a higher probability that the habits change. You got to have a permanent change in the process you use and the habits you use and the spiritual look you have on money so that you don't come back here again. And if you have that permanent change, you got what we wanted for you. We love you and we want you to win.

And John, I think you got the right stuff. I think you got the right attitude. If your spouse is on board with you >> and feeling the same way you're feeling, then I'm with Ken. I think I would give this a hard hard 90 days.

See how much progress we make. See how good this works. I mean, you might look up and go, "Hey, man, we paid off, you know, 30,000 of the 40,000. Let's just we can run through this thing, >> you know, and by the way, you got 17 in the bank and Baby Step says you're going to take 16 of that and throw it at these credit cards anyway." >> So, that's going to move the needle, too.

>> Yeah. You start plowing through this stuff, you go, "Okay, living on less than we make is possible in America." Hello.

And so, he's now got 24 if he does what we teach. How quick can he pay it off knowing what you know?

Um, it'd be it'd be done in 90 days.

>> That's what I think, too. >> Yeah. Yeah. He could be done in 90 days with the credit cards by using the 16 off the credit cards. Yeah. I mean, off the savings account.

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Cliff in Austin, Texas. Hey, Cliff. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing all right. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, yeah. So, uh, um, I a apartment

complex that refused to negotiate with me when I got a new job out of state

from me to collections. Um, the only

>> because you broke because you broke the lease.

>> Hello. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Yeah, I'm still here. >> Yeah, you broke the lease, right?

>> Well, they wouldn't negotiate with me. >> They don't have to negotiate with you. You signed a lease. >> Okay, that's fine. That's fine. That's not what I'm here to talk about. Um, I'm here to talk about how uh how to move forward and uh hopefully you're willing to help me out with that. >> I'll try.

>> But let's establish that they're not legally obligated or morally obligated to let you do whatever you want to do.

Is that okay?

>> Okay. >> All right. So, what do you how much do you owe them?

>> Just under 6K. >> Six grand. And what do you make a year?

Uh, right now we are going back to

school. Um, the reason I'm doing this is because I now have a wife.

>> But she didn't answer the question. How much do you make?

>> Oh, right now we're in school. We're not making anything right now. >> So, zero dollars. >> How are you paying the current landlord?

>> Be we uh we have some money saved up.

>> Oh, good. >> We have We have We have a lot of money.

We have Yeah, we're we're we're in good hands. Um the re the reason that this uh

the reason that I moved, you know, I moved for a new job that paid better than what I was making and they just didn't really want to work with me. Um

so I just didn't

know. And now that I have a wife because

I was single at the time. >> Mhm. Um, >> so how much how much money you have saved, honey?

>> Um, we have an emergency fund of 12K

>> and we have uh more than 40K. I won't go

into the exact number.

>> Okay. Well, nobody's going to come get it. It's okay. Um, not from here anyway.

Maybe from the landlord. Uh, what state was the landlord in?

Um, I'd prefer not to say.

>> Well, it matters because the ant I can't help you, honey. We're just going to move on. This is just bull crap.

Miranda's in Raleigh. Hey, Miranda.

What's up?

>> Hey, how are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Good. I listen to you guys every day. So happy to be here. Thanks. >> Um, so I just have a quick question and

it's about I don't know whether or not I should ask my boss for a raise. I don't know how to bring up the conversation or if it should even be brought up. I keep getting mixed messages from like friends and family. And I guess the reason why I

want to raise is I joined the company a little under a year ago and they basically just changed the scope of the role. So I just feel like for the pay and the scope like it's just not lining up anymore.

But again, I got people talking in my ear saying, >> "Yeah, okay. Good question. Very good.

Stop listening to all the friends and family. Okay. So, we have to logically walk through this and then we have to validate uh your feelings.

>> Okay. How did the scope change and be very specific? In other words, did it increase the amount of work? Did the u

uh job description itself change? Give me a quick summary.

>> Basically everything. So, I joined I'm in sales. So when I joined the company,

they had me as an account manager working underneath the territory manager. So the scope of the role in terms of what my territory would be and the amount of travel and things like that. >> So more territory, more travel.

>> Yeah. They basically when I joined one of the territory sales reps retired. So

three weeks in basically just bumped me up into that role. >> Okay. What is your current comp?

>> What's your current comp structure? Is it base plus commission?

>> It's base plus commission. Originally, when I joined the company, it was based with a set amount of commission. It was like a $500 just monthly flat. And when

I moved into the new territory role, I

asked them about salary. They told me basically nothing changes on the base, but the commission structure would change. I'd be able to get more money on that end. >> How has it changed? >> But It honestly hasn't changed too much. Um, the commission did almost right now it it is usually anywhere from like 8 to 1,400 extra a month >> is that which is the 500 before.

>> Is that capped? >> But it is not capped. >> Okay. So you even when I've brought up salary negotiations and stuff like that, they've always told me, well, hey, if you're doing new business, you'll be able to grow that commission and that's where you'll see the increase. >> So, so I'm completely objective, okay?

And Dave comes from a sales background.

So, what I'm hearing is opportunity. And I'm hearing pretty standard language here in a sales role that they're not going to bump your base. Uh, but if they don't limit you from a commission standpoint and they've increased your territory. So, the real question I would want to know, and for sake of time, you don't have to answer it, but you need to know what your potential commission could be based on some previous numbers.

You had a person just retire in that role. I'd want to know over the last five years, maybe seven years, one year.

What did that person make? What was the total commission? You got to be dealing in facts. And right now, you're dealing in feelings. And I understand the feelings, but um I don't recommend you go in and ask for a raise. No. in less than a year in this scenario when you've effectively been given a chance for a raise. Dave, am I missing >> the raise your raise is effective when you are.

>> So when you go make more sales, you're going to make more money. That's what they told you. And that's not a bad thing at all. Matter of fact, sales people make more money than just about any other role in America today if they're not in a situation where they're trapped or have some kind of a ceiling on them.

It doesn't sound like you do here. the only ceiling is your effort, your ability, uh the hours in the day, the logistics of getting to the customer, all those kinds of things.

Cuz I mean, if you went and sold a whole, let's say you doubled your sales, you'd be making a couple grand a month plus your base, wouldn't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Can you do that?

>> I can. I mean, I I think I can. Yeah. Is

there anything that the company is doing that's Is there anything the company's doing that's keeping you from doing that?

>> No, I do think when they switched me into the territory role, the the territory I took over is much further away. So, my biggest thing I've had is just time management with now the new commute and the new area I'm over and just time management on that end. But there's definitely opportunities.

>> Okay. So, here's what I just heard.

>> Yeah. So, here's what I just heard.

Thanks for sharing that. Here's what you're dealing with. You're dealing with expectations have been shifted. And with the expectations being shifted, it has inconvenienced you. And the inconvenience is a real emotion. And you're going, "Well, compensate me for making me travel more." Do I have it about right?

>> A little bit. And I guess too, I know this is so bad to not talk about other people's salaries and things like that, but I just know from like the account managers versus the territory managers, there is a big jump in the base salary.

So, I guess I get, I guess, emotionally held up. >> Are you a territory manager?

>> Yeah, >> now she is. Okay. Are you getting territory manager base or account base?

>> No. >> All right. Now, that you can bring up.

>> That's a valid thing. Go. Okay. Hey, listen. You move you move me into a territory. You move me into a territory and I'm willing to eat what I kill.

>> Thank you for moving Thank you for giving me this opportunity. But also, I understand that territory managers make a different base and when you move me to that, I I'm I don't understand. Would you please explain to me why I didn't get the increased base? That's a fair question, but that's different than slamming your fist on the table and demanding a raise.

But, you know, that last little thing you gave us was a gamecher. Okay.

>> Yeah. I think you have to sit down and ask them, "Hey, listen. From what I understand, now again, posture is everything here." >> Okay? There's no need to create tension.

And you can create tension with a leader really quick because we don't know if they're a healthy leader. We don't know if there's some limitations. We don't know that. So, the advice has got to be, I'm going to sit down and ask, "Hey, I understand that this is true. Is this

true?" It's a question. I'm not telling, I'm asking. Then, if they say yes, this is true. Then you can say obviously if you were in my shoes you'd probably wonder is that going to happen and and why isn't it happening or when can it happen? These are these are good question >> under what circumstances do I start earning territory manager base >> after you made me a territory manager?

>> Yeah, >> that's a fair question. That's right. Yeah. And I would want to ask that.

>> By the way, if the answer doesn't make any sense, there's your sign. It's probably time to start making plans to go somewhere else. >> Yeah. Yeah. not going to work out for you there cuz they're they're they're messing you over at that point. But yeah,

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Josh is

in Detroit, Michigan. Hey Josh, how are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so calling relating to my dad. Um

he's 62 and about a month ago had a

conversation with him about retirement and where he was with that. Uh, and I found out that he has a little over $3,000 to his name right now in a checking account. Um, and he makes good

money at his job, makes over 100,000 a year, but he has really high expenses and recent medical debt has wiped out a lot of his savings. So, my questions relating to how can I help him start

moving towards uh realizing an actual retirement in a timely amount of time?

Mostly it would be coaching him, right?

That's what you mean by help, right? Showing him some things to do. Number one, why did medical debt wipe out his savings? Did he not have health insurance? >> Uh, he does, but he has he has a chronic

health condition and so his deductible is really high and he has to he's had a

couple procedures over the past couple years that he's had to pay out of pocket for because his deductible didn't cover all of it. >> Well, now after the deductible, then co-pay kicks in.

Uh, yeah. I mean, I don't I don't know the specifics of this. >> Well, that's how insurance here's how insurance works. The deductible, you pay 100% of the bills until you meet the deductible. After you meet the deductible, typically it's an 8020 after that. They pay 80% and you pay 20%.

And so, do you have any idea what his deductible is? Like 10 grand or something? >> Yeah, it's it's pretty high. Something like that. >> Okay. So, so he's gone through 20 grand by meeting the deductible two different years. And then he had a procedure beyond that that he owed 20% of that procedure and

that took some more money. Maybe another 10 or 15,000 we'll just call it. So maybe he's gone through 30 or $40,000.

So he still didn't really have any money. >> Right. >> Right. I mean he didn't he didn't go through 200,000 bucks. He went through 30 or 40.

>> That's correct. >> Okay. All right. I'm just making sure that we get the the table set here. So he's worked all his life and he makes six figures and he's saved no money is what we're really dealing with.

Yeah. Yep. >> Okay. And um so is he single?

>> Yep. Yeah. My parents divorced a few years ago, so he's been on his own for a while. >> Okay. Well, if he called us on the air, we would say, "Get on a detailed written budget and pile cash. You make a hundred

grand." Well, my expenses are high. Cut your expenses. You're living too high on the hog, as we say in Tennessee. M.

>> So, what is his stinking expenses?

>> Uh, from what I know and he's shown me, he pays about 4,000 a month in expenses.

>> Okay. Well, he makes 8500

or 8,800.

>> Okay. >> So, yeah, that's part of my dilemma is I don't know where >> Yeah. >> I I don't know where the money's going.

>> He doesn't either. Okay. So that that you know, so if you took over a company that was bringing in $100,000 a year and spending $48,000 a year and they didn't know where the other money was going, the first thing you would do is they need a better system, right? They need to know where their money's going. And so if you're going to coach him, he needs to know where his money's going. And if he doesn't pay attention, he's going to retire and eat alpo.

>> Yes. >> It's time to get your crap together. You're 62. You probably got 10 years of good hard work to do. and he could pile up several hundred,000 in the next 10 years making a h 100red grand by managing very very carefully he could have a decent nest egg at retirement.

>> Yeah, there the a second part to this as well uh if you have the time for it.

>> Okay. >> Uh he was recently involved in a real

estate deal that went sideways and uh there's an chance he could be looking at a judgment payment to a bank of around $500,000.

Well, that will bankrupt him.

>> Yes. >> He hasn't he hasn't seen $500,000 ever,

>> right? >> And so the only chance he's got there is to negotiate down. And um Did he have partners in that deal?

>> Yes. He was one of five partners.

>> They didn't have him signed up because they thought he was going to pay.

>> They had the other guys signed up because the other guys had assets.

They're not going to bother your dad.

Yeah, >> they're not. I mean, there is zero chance they're going to get any money out of your dad. Zero. He has no money.

And if they start putting lean on his stuff, he'll just file bankruptcy. They know they're not going to get money out of him. And by the way, they knew that when they got his signature cuz he was already a broke guy then, >> right? >> So they they must have been leaning on someone else's asset base to make this loan.

>> That's correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. So they're going after the they're going after the rich guy, not the poor guy.

That's what they do.

>> I'm not going to bother your dad. That's that's a waste of paperwork.

>> Yeah. If they don't pursue him heavily is he shouldn't declare bankruptcy then.

>> No, he doesn't file bankruptcy on what might happen. >> Okay. >> If he has $200,000 saved and they're going to come get that, we'll have to talk about what we do. But he doesn't have any money today.

>> And so what I'm going to do is not worry about that. I'm going to put that on the shelf and let it sit over there and cook. and I'm gonna get my crap together and start stacking cash and building get with a smart investor pro and let's get this stuff filled up and get your expenses cut and quit spending money like you're in Congress.

You know why he did the real estate deal? Because he was desperate and scared and thought he was going to retire bankrupt.

>> Yes. It was a Hail Mary and >> Exactly what it was. It's exactly what it was. It was a move of a desperate man.

And so let me get let me stop doing desperate things and let's start doing steady things. Steady steady steady steady. The tortoise wins the race, not the hair. >> Yeah.

I just would encourage you, Josh, this is going to be really hard to hear and even harder to do. At some point, you're going to have to talk to dad and see if he's willing to be guided or coached by his son. And if he's not, you're going to have to put up a boundary there. And it's going to be really, really hard.

And the reason you're have to put up a boundary is because you can't make your dad do anything.

So, I hope that doesn't happen. but super clear in your heart and your desire to help. If he doesn't receive it, you're going to have to put up a boundary. >> Yeah. So, mathematically, your dad has the ability to build a nest egg by 72 that's pretty substantial.

But 62 years of sucky habits are in the way, >> right? >> So, is he going to trans is he going to look in the mirror and go after 62 freaking years, I'm going to grow up or not? And that's not up to you. Is Ken's point, that's up to him.

Yeah. Yeah. I need a come to Jesus moment. >> Yeah. He He does. Not you. By looking in the mirror and going, you're the problem.

>> It's not somebody Nobody took advantage of him. And it's not medical. That's not the problem. None none of these excuses are the problem. The problem is you make a lot of money and you piss it away

and it's got to stop. And that's that's what it comes down to. Now, you don't want to say that to your dad, but that's what it comes down to. That's the math that we've got. And fixing the math is easy once the human being starts to get their crap together. >> But the humans are now the humans, they're an issue. But the math thing, it's pretty easy. So, but we say it around here all the time. Personal finance is 80% behavior. It's 20% head

knowledge. The problem with my money is the guy in my mirror. If I can get him to behave, he can be skinny and rich, but he likes donuts. It's a problem. And

that's an issue. So, I mean, but it's a behavior thing. It's not a It's not It's not a lack of knowledge. It's not a lack of ability. It's not Guy makes 100 grand. It'll do it. The donuts are good, though, Dave. They're really good.

>> Shut up, Ken.

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Elizabeth is in Washington, DC. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm doing well.

>> Good. How can we help? >> So, I'm flinging in I'm I'm 38 years old, a single mother with two children, and I'm feeling stuck financially. I have about $90,000 in student debt,

$9,000 in credit card debt, and I can't seem to get past baby step one. I'm

thinking about making a hardship withdrawal from my retirement account to buy a multif family home to start generating some income and like build stability for my family. I want to get out of debt, save and invest, but I I just feel stuck.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> I don't know what to do. >> Yeah. Well, that move is not going to bring you stability. That move is going to destabilize your situation. and it's going to have the opposite effect of what you're hoping for. Um, so no, we wouldn't do

that. What do you make?

>> I bring in roughly around 160k a year.

>> Okay. And on 160,000 with two kids. Why

can you not reduce debt?

>> There always an emergency that happens.

Again, a single parent. I have no other

um >> give give me an example of a $60,000 emergency.

>> I I had to have um a medical procedure

done last year that it was a real

financial blow for me. It wasn't 60,000, but it was in the thousands. Just my

monthly bills alone um take about half

my take-home pay.

Well, where's the other half? >> A month. >> Where's the other half go?

>> I have a a lease on a vehicle. The insurance where I live is also very high. >> Okay. So, how much is your car lease?

>> My car lease currently is um $600 a

month. And the insurance for it is about >> $340 >> a month as well. >> Okay. All right.

Well, that's $7,000 a year.

Okay. It's probably closer to 10 with the insurance. Okay. But you make 160.

How much is your How much is your apartment rent or your house rent?

>> It's 1,800 a month.

>> Okay. All right.

Okay. So, um I don't know where the money's going, but you don't either. After

talking to you, you still have not given me any numbers that sound anywhere near like $160,000.

Okay. There's nothing here. There's nothing here that says you can't do this debt reduction idea. I'm making $160,000 a year. But how how long have you been a single mom?

>> Um, it's been around four years.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, having having worked with uh

for 30 plus years, almost 40 years now, doing this, um what I run into with people that go through a divorce is it takes it rips your heart out. It ups uh

turns the whole world upside down and there's a certain amount of um emotional

paralysis that happens because you kind of lose your confidence, you lose your swagger, you feel desperate and stuck.

And then you just that gives you an

excuse to not manage 160,000. Well,

it gives you it's a reason that a valid

not a valid reason, but it's a reason that people because emotional recovery after going through a divorce and trying to run a household with two kiddos. How old are these two kiddos?

>> My youngest is 13 and the oldest is 21.

>> Okay. Is the 21-year-old supporting themselves?

>> He is working. Yes.

>> Is he supporting himself?

>> No. >> Okay. It's time he did, young man.

Help him with that, Mom. Okay. You

cannot carry a 21-year-old.

Number one. Number two, I need you to get the Every Dollar app and download it. I'm going to give you a free uh

trial on this thing and let you get started with it. and it's going to coach you and show you exactly what to do. But

I think that you can make substantial progress in one year. I don't think you're going to be debtree in one year, but you are spending some money somewhere out of grief um out of um

uh I don't know, emotional sav.

And that's okay cuz you've been hurting.

You've been through hell and you're trying to figure out what to do next and all that. But you, the good news is you don't make 16,000. You make $160,000

a year. Your rent is $1,800. Your car payment is 600. That's only 30,000

bucks.

Okay? And that's that's shelter and transportation. We got to buy some clothes. Some clothes, not much. You already probably got a bunch. And we got to buy some uh electricity and some water. And that's it.

And then you got to get in attack mode.

>> Yeah. I just from all the experience that we've had and this is a privilege to sit and help people. But Dave, I have a sense here in this situation that what is presenting as an emergency at times.

Now, this is notwithstanding health and an HVAC system going out in the middle of the summer or the winter. Okay. But some emergencies, Dave, feel like emergencies and they're just emotional emergencies. They're not actually emergencies. And I know you've seen that a lot and I think you touched on it with being a single mom. You got a 21-year-old. I I suspect had we had time

to ask, give us five more emergencies that have popped up recently.

>> They're all under 10 grand. >> And they're all emotional emergencies.

They don't actually have to be spent on.

And I I I just think you have to be careful there that I think there's a lesson in there sometimes. >> Well, when you're tired and when you're grieving, you're you're not making good decisions. >> Exactly. And when you're not living on a detailed plan that holds you the numbers of the the app, the Every Dollar app will hold you accountable >> for doing this stuff. You've got to do that, honey. I'm going to give it to you and I want you to get started on it today. But you have enough money coming

in to where you should be making substantial progress. If you're not debtree within 18 months, you've done something wrong. You should have all of this paid off in 18 months. You may need to get rid of this stupid car. Yeah, you may need to do some other stuff, too.

But you got to quit buying stuff. And an

emergency withdrawal to go buy a freaking multif family. That sounds like you've been looking at something on TikTok. My god, this is the worst idea

I've heard and I don't know when. Do not do that. It's not going to do anything except get you more in debt and more problems and you got less emotional bandwidth than to work on all this. You have got to tighten up your life and make the money that you this incredible income that you make.

You've got to make it behave you. I want you to develop a sense of disgust >> that I'm not getting any more use out of $160,000 than I am. I've got a little sense of disgust about it. So, I want you to develop it for you.

win. I want you to have a good life. I want you to have some margin, have some wiggle room, but you're going to have to go take it back by the throat. It doesn't move until you take it by the throat and make it behave. Money will not behave unless you force it to. Money

will just wander off and go to people who are making it behave.

It leaves people who don't make it behave and it goes to people who make it behave. It's a natural flow of life. And

so, you've got to take this by the throat and shake it and just go, you are going to do what I say to do. I am in

charge of you. Yeah. And when you get this attitude, this swagger about it and you start taking that Every Dollar app and squeezing these dollars and making them win, um, you know, it's pretty serious. So, what are we talking about here? We're talking about $14,000 a month income.

Wow.

That's a lot.

That's a lot. You can do this.

Heat. Heat.

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might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Isaac in Nevada. I'm 2 years out from retiring. I'd like to know the best strategy on how to start withdrawing funds from my 401k. Do I change the dividends to not reinvest? Is

there a certain percentage that's safe to withdraw every month or year? And if so, how often should I withdraw? H okay.

Well, um what I would do is sit down with your financial planner, your smart investor pro if you have one or your advisor, and help them have them crunch some numbers with you. Um the stock

market has averaged 12% 11.8% since it

began.

Okay, inflation has averaged for the

last 40 years, 50 years, somewhere around 4.2%.

It's below that right now. Was above that during President Biden's tenure due not to President Biden, but due to inflation. I'll just make a comment and keep rolling. Protect him just a little bit there.

He got blamed for something that wasn't his. Anyway, but inflation comes and goes, in other words, and so do returns. Last year, you would have made over 20% on your money. The year before you would have made over 20% on your money.

The year before that you wouldn't have made that. So just go back and look at some of the track record on the market. Now if your funds are invested, figure out what they're averaging have been averaging over the last many years and what you think they're going to average. But let's just use some easy numbers.

are like mine and they're averaging around 12. Again, I made 26 last year,

but they're averaging around 12. Okay.

And inflation's four. So if I draw out

12, the value of my nest egg starts to

go away at the rate of inflation.

The math is all still sitting there. If I only pull off the income and I let the nest egg sit there, that's fine. But a million dollars 10 years from now, because of 4% inflation, it won't buy as much as it buys today. So, it begins to erode your purchasing power if you take out the full amount that you're earning.

Okay? Um, if you took out 8% and left

four in and it made 12, 12 - 4 is 8, you

would leave enough in to cover inflation and you'd be pulling off enough. So, your your million dollars would grow by 40,000, but the purchasing power would lose by 40,000. So you would break even on what it would buy because it'll take a million40,000 next year to buy what a million would buy this year if inflation's 4%. That make sense? Good.

Okay. So if you pull off eight or less,

your money is growing still more than or

equal to inflation and it would run forever if you're if that math is correct. Okay. Now that's assuming you're earning 12 and inflation is truly four average over years. So, if

you had a million dollars and you pulled off $80,000 a year, you'd be just fine.

And, you know, you could do that monthly, you can do it quarterly. Uh, but you can say, I want to pull out an average of X% of this nest egg. You can set it up at 60,000. I don't care. And leave a little more in there if that makes you nervous.

Um, you know what you don't want to do is draw out so much that you end up running out of money before your life is over. Hello. And so if you're making

uh if you're making 120,000 on your million this year and you pull out 150,000, eventually that's going to run into a wall if you live long enough, right? Because you're pulling out more than you're making. And so next year you're going to make even less because you don't have as much in there. You're killing the goose that's got that's got the golden eggs coming out.

So pull out less than the average that you project to earn by at least the rate of inflation. So what's your projection to earn and what do you think inflation's going to be?

A lot of people in the financial world say 6%. I'm comfortable with eight because very few people live outlive their money once they built a sizable nest egg. Uh now if you're starting with 200 grand it's different than if you're starting with 2 million too. changes the formula because if you whittle away at your two million and it gets down to only a million five before you die, oh well, you didn't kill anything, right?

No big deal. But if you if your 2 million grows to 3 million before you die and you live out of it, well, you leave a better inheritance is all. So, you kind of got to, you know, how much do you want to leave behind and gauge

that? It always helps too to know exactly when you're going to die. Then you can run the math.

>> That's true. >> That's helpful. Yeah, there'll be an app for that soon. I'm certain of it.

>> But that's how this works. So, uh, you will also find, my dear Isaac, that there's a lot of, uh, financial nerds out there that are complete freaks about this stuff that actually hate the advice I just gave you. >> This is true. >> They are very vocal about how stupid I am and how many people are going to die broke because of Dave Ramsey. I don't want you to die broke. I want you to get broke right before you die

because you've enjoyed the money, gave the money, uh done with the money what you wanted to do with it, whether it's an inheritance or something else.

>> Can we mess with the critics just real quick? Just for fun. >> Why not? >> Uh what are we talking Dave? 48 hour 72 hours broke right before you die

>> cuz you know they're going to come after you for saying that. >> You got to dial it in. You got to dial it in. You got to really know. So, >> but here here's the thing, too.

What ends up happening is that this stuff is not static. See, like last year

was 26%, the year before was 24%. Right?

>> And so if you're pulling off eight >> Yeah. >> you've got huge gains. You got a million dollars, you made $250,000 and you pulled off 80.

Now backtrack that math.

>> And that gives you a lot of pad for some years that have some down years and they don't quite earn eight. So most people

once they get to a million dollars worth of retirement savings and a lot of

people have in addition to other assets

then uh they're able to navigate their way through the next many years. So let's say this person is oh by the way 72 and a half you have mandatory withdrawals called required minimum distributions. What I'm giving you will beat that so you don't have to worry about it. And oh, by the way too, you got to pay taxes on this if it's a traditional 401k and not a Roth 401k. So

taxes come out of that 80 grand. That's $80,000 worth of income.

And so minus taxes, that's what you got to live on on that example. So that's

the way you can back into it and then play with the numbers back and forth. If you want to be a little bit more conservative, fine. If you want to spend a little more, that's fine, too. Um, most of the time I find though, Ken, it's hard to it's harder to get people to actually spend that have been savers.

Oh yeah. Yeah. We get a lot of calls here asking for permission to enjoy the money that they built up over the last 30 years. >> A lot of those calls. >> Yeah. >> And uh we want to give you permission.

We want to teach you to live like no one else. Sacrifice so that later you can live and give like no one else and be in a position that if someone you love is in trouble, you can just help them. Got the money? Shut up.

It's not a big deal. And so a lot of times, here's the thing. We find people that have been living on 60,000 bucks.

When I talk to them about pulling 80 out, they think they're in heaven.

>> It's true. >> You know, and so that that's more what we run into than some financial nerd on TikTok who's decided Dave Ramsey's good clickbait. All right, Jeremy is in Nashville. Hey, Jeremy. What's up?

>> How you doing, brother? I appreciate you guys taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah, so me and my wife are debtree except for our mortgage. We have our fully funded emergency fund and we're funding both of our retirements uh to the max that we can. So my question is we have a fair amount that we're saving every month right now. Is there a ratio?

We started doubling our mortgage last month, but I'm wondering if I'm putting too much towards my mortgage and not enough towards future cars, home repairs, that kind of thing. Is that a ratio you recommend? >> It's not a ratio, but I would run some numbers on the car repairs. I'd run some numbers on the car repairs and that kind of stuff. You you probably already got another 100 grand built up the way you're talking, don't you?

>> Uh, no. We had to do IVF our first year of marriage. We We're kind of late to the game. So, we're >> What's your What's your income?

>> Oh, probably 275, 300, something like that. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, first thing is I figured out what my income is and then from there the ratio doesn't matter.

What I want you to do is save just enough to take care of those items and everything else goes towards the car. I mean, everything else goes toward paying off the house. So, if you need to replace a car, you stop putting on the house, buy a car. If you need to go on vacation, you don't want to put as much on the house, put put on the vacation.

That's fine. But you need to be chunking on this house. Don't build up another side savings account of 100 or 200 grand. Get the house paid off, man.

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Walter is in Montreal. Hey Walter, how are you?

>> Good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so starting next week, um, I'm

eligible to, uh,

join my employer, uh, sponsored stock

purchase plan. I'm just wondering if that's uh something I should be uh

taking advantage of.

>> Well, I don't know the specifics of how that might work in Canada. In the US, it's typically a 15% discount.

>> Uh so, the way my company does it is, uh

they'll match up to the first uh $1,000

uh dollar for dollar.

>> Mhm.

And there's no there's no discount on the stock. You're just buying it at market value.

>> Yeah. And then they'll match it.

>> But no discount?

>> No. No discount? No.

>> Okay. No, I wouldn't buy that.

>> I would just I just put your money in good retirement investments and the equivalent of mutual funds or whatever you've got available to you that's along that. But um you're you're just buying stock that you just could have called your broker and bought. The only advantage gets a,000 bucks and that's not going to make a difference if the stock goes south. your stock could lose $1,000 in 20 minutes, you know.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, now I'll pass. I'll just go ahead and do traditional investing. And uh for those of you in the States, um where you have a 15% discount on a lot of these programs, it's they're almost all identical. Um what I always challenge you to do is go back and look at your company. It's publicly traded and look at the 52 week the last year

high on the stock and low on the stock.

It won't be unusual for you to see a more than a 15% swing during that time up or down. Meaning that the 15%

discounts isn't squat.

It's not enough to offset buying a bad stock.

And single stocks are much more risky than buying in mutual funds. If you put $5,000 over the next several months in a good mutual fund, you're in 90 to 200 stocks. If you put it in one company,

you are betting on one company. You're freaking draft kings, you're betting on one game, you know, uh, with your whole

deal and you don't have any control over

that game other than you work at that place and you really probably have zero

knowledge of what's really going on in the back room. So, um, I don't buy any

single stocks.

I did run the and one of the worst ones I ever ran into was years and years and years and years ago. I had a lady that was in her 70s that had um 950,000

and it was in her retirement. It was all in her company stock.

Big name company that makes a whole lot

of the items in your house, particularly

cleaning items.

It went down 38% in two years.

her nest egg that she had saved her whole life went from 900,000

to just over 600,000.

>> She was not a happy 76-y old. She was

pretty pissed, but she had bet the entire thing on one game, one name,

household name, but is a publicly traded stock. >> And so that's the risk you take. You avoid risk when uh or you you lower risk

when you spread out your money, diversify, not being all in one thing.

And so that's why I do that because I don't like the risk. I like making the money, but I don't like taking the risk.

I'm not looking for a big play. I'm looking to be the tortoise. Steady wins

the race. Emily is in Nashville. Hi, Emily. How are you?

>> Hi. Great. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So, my husband and I are in baby step three. Um, and we are also expecting our second son in May, so we're also in STO mode. >> Yay.

>> Trying to save all the money. Um, but we both are also driving kind of junker cars. And my car, uh, we just found out

this week, needs about a $1,500 repair.

And I only paid like $3,000 for the car.

So, it's like kind of a gut punch to think about paying half its value for another fix. Um, but with trying to

stock money away, I'm like, >> "What's wrong with the car?

>> The air conditioning is out, which is not going to work with babies in the Tennessee summer." >> Okay.

And the air conditioner on a $3,000 car is $1,500.

>> Yeah, that's what they're saying for parts and labor.

Um, we've had it looked at by a couple different uh auto places in our town.

>> Wow, that's unusually high. Okay.

>> Especially when the mechanic's sitting there looking at a hooptie >> and with a straight face going, "Spend, 1500 bucks to keep cool." I don't think

so.

>> Right. So, we are thinking >> What kind of car is this?

>> It's a 2010 Ford Escape. Oh,

okay.

Yeah.

All right. So, if you sell it without an air conditioner right now, what can you get for it?

>> Uh, I mean, we're we're probably looking at maybe $1,500.

>> Okay. So, you don't fix that car. Here's how you do the math on this equation. If the repair plus the value of the car is more or the

current value of the car, the broken car, if the repair plus the broken value

of the car is plus the repair is more

than the finished value after the repair, you don't do the repair. So, example here, you could get 1,500 for it as it is, but if I had got to put 2,000 in it, that's like having 3500 in the car. Okay?

>> And you could have sold it. I mean, and and you only you it's only worth 3,000 after you finish. So, you don't want 3,500 in the car. You take the 1,500, put it in your pocket, and you take the 1,500 you were going to spend, 1,600 on the air conditioner you were going to spend, and you buy another $3,000 car with that same amount of money.

>> Mhm. Yep. >> Now, don't do the pregnancy. I have to

upgrade my car because the air

conditioner went out. No, you just go buy another $3,000 car. And this time, don't buy an Escape.

Okay, noted. >> Yeah, this is a piece of crap of an automobile here. And so, um, yeah, I mean, get you something. Get an old beat up, uh, Camry that's got an old beat up,

uh, Honda Accord that's got a lot of value left in it. Okay. A lot of life left in it. Um, Escapes didn't have life when left in them when they came off the assembly line new. So, um, >> yes. >> Yeah. >> This is not the first problem we've had with it either. >> Yeah, I bet. So, yeah. But, I mean, these cars that have a reputation of running forever and ever and ever, that's what you spend a three, that's what you buy with a $3,000 car. It's a Camry, it's a an Accord,

uh, you know, for guys, it might be an F-150. I don't care. Buy something that's got, you know, that's got a lot of life. I don't care if it's pretty. I just want life left in it. We're not going for pretty at $3,000.

How much have you got in your STR mode?

>> Um, we're at $12,000 right now.

>> Good. And what's your household income?

>> Um, we're right at about $6,000 a month.

>> Good. And how much debt do you have?

>> No debt besides our mortgage.

>> Okay. All right. Then I probably would put a little money with this and move it up maybe to a $5,000 car.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I will tell my husband you told me to do that. >> Yeah. Because stork mode around here is

you're in baby step two paying off debt, but you're pregnant. So, we're going to stop paying off debt temporarily till the baby comes and pile up cash. That's what we call stark mode. But you're out of debt. This is just an emergency fund situation. And you have an emergency.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. But this is not an excuse to go buy a $25,000 car.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. With payments on it and go, "Well, I had to. I had a baby on the way." That's bull. Okay. You That's not true.

Okay. And that people do that. You know that, right?

>> Uh not us. >> I know. But you you you've heard of people doing stuff like that. If you listen to the show, they do it all the time. Okay. So, >> yes. >> Yeah. So, I I think you're I think you're incredible and um I think you're

very levelheaded, isn't she? This is amazing. >> Oh, yeah. I mean, this is there's not impulse here. This is a real situation.

>> Yeah. Very thoughtful. >> Hauling hauling around two babies in the Tennessee summer. Yeah.

Cuz we have humidity in Tennessee you can cut with a knife. I mean, you can set blocks of the humidity in the back seat if you want to. You know, it's like it's it's pretty ridiculous. You know, >> that is true.

>> It's like, you know, you know that feels like thing. Yeah. Feels like 500° cuz you walk outside and you're dripping. >> You can draw in the air.

>> Yeah. I don't I don't blame you on this. I'm with you. I'm I'm on your team this time, Emily.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. Amy is in

Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Amy. How are you?

>> Hello, sir. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

>> Uh, I wanted to see how can I create and

stick to a budget um after being laid off 9 months and my husband is self-employed.

>> Okay. Is that code for he doesn't make any money?

It's code that we cannot count on a lot.

I mean, you know, he's really trying.

>> I'm self-employed and I do okay. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

>> Yeah, he's a he's a plumber and um he's doing amazing job. It's just that, you know, lately the jobs were kind of like scattered. Not a lot of jobs.

>> Well, then he needs to go find a local plumber who's got a thriving business.

And that's just about every plumbing company that's been around. and he needs to apply because they've got more customers and more problems than they have plumbers most of the time and he needs to make a fortune compared to what he's making for somebody else.

And I'm talking tomorrow he gets her in his car. >> If he's not making a living to support his family as a plumber in today's world, honey, he's not working.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Um we've we've had several big

issues for example and that's why I'm actually super grateful that um you're on the show um with Ramsey because I know um you have other people also in the show but um I know you're a parent but I just love it because you're very fair and strict. So, um, our biggest

issue was I have a 24 year old who's not

functioning. Like, he dropped out of school in 10th grade and he's been doing substances for the last 10 years and, um, >> we've been we've been paying his rent >> and it's been crazy hard. Um, we're also

from overseas, so um, what country? I I

>> uh Romania. >> Romania. Okay, cool. Why have you not gotten a job for nine months?

Well, I worked in big pharma and I got laid off. It's been crazy to get back on the um on the market. I mean, I have LinkedIn. I have everything. And I've been told that a lot of people, very good people are um have been laid off.

>> What were you doing in big

>> uh project management? >> Okay. So, you know, I do project management. Why don't you do it for something else other than big pharma?

I I I tried I even um I even opened up kind of like a consultancy, you know, but um it's uh it's super hard to to get clients when people don't know you and um >> uh I >> Okay, let's stop. Okay, so there's there's three points that we can be fair and strict on. That's what you asked me to be. Okay, >> point number one is your family is

struggling with finances because of an income issue. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Is that true?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you need to call the 24 year old and say, "We can't pay your rent anymore. You're going to have to get a job and you're going to have to get clean, honey. We love you, but we your dad and I are starving to death over here and you're going to have to you're you're a grown man and you're going to have to figure out what to do. We love you. We're going to be cheering for you, but we're not giving you any more money. We don't have any money." Number one.

Number two, your husband either starts making a lot of money next month as a

self-employed plumber or he takes a job with a plumbing company because they will pay him a lot of money. It's that

is a field that is a field that desperately needs help. And if he can't make a living because he doesn't know how to get the clients and run the business part of it, but he knows how to do the plumbing part of it, there's no shame in that. But the shame would be if he continues to try to stay self-employed when he could go make three or four times what he's making now by getting a job like Ken said. And then the third step is we've got to get you employed doing something, Ken.

>> Yeah. I mean, again, as a project manager, forget the title of project manager at so and so pharmaceutical

company. What does a project manager do

and do well? You don't have to answer it, but you know what it is. What kind of skill sets do project managers bring to the table? Well, project managers are able to juggle a lot of different balls.

True or false?

>> Yeah. >> True. And then project managers are really probably good at communication and organization. True or false?

>> Absolutely. I speak three languages fluently. >> Boom. So, let's stop trying to play the big pharma game because we are seeing a lot of layoffs in big white collar jobs.

I'll go with that because there's some evidence of that. But that doesn't matter to what we're talking about. who in your zip code needs somebody that has

your skill set and you start going out and making connections, not applying online. We go we make a connection. I know somebody works on not going to do it. >> That's right.

I They need an office manager. You go, "Well, I'm a project manager." Well, you're a project manager has been out of work for nine months and you're broke. So, what you can do is go, "Hey, I've been a big-time project manager. I'm dealing with a kid who's got substance abuse issues and he's and it's been hurting us and so I'm getting back in the game." There's a story there.

There's a narrative that people will say, "This is a mama bear who's who's got to make money and she got laid off from a big-time company. Happens every day. No shame." And so, this is what you do. You forget about what you did in the past.

And what companies would be thrilled for you to walk in off the street with your skill set and experience?

>> A lot of them. >> A lot. And I gotta say this one more time. We just kind of You kind of glossed over what I said.

I I rarely disagree with Dave, but I don't think your husband waits a month. I don't think he's a good business guy and I and that's not a a negative. I'm just I'm not a I'm not criticizing, but I don't think he knows how to run the business. Number two, he's hurting just like you are with this kid.

And I think he needs the safety of just showing up every day and turning the wrench and fixing plumbing problems and getting paid top dollar. So, I wouldn't wait a month. I think he's getting in the car and he's driving around construction sites all day. If I were in your area, that's what I do.

>> This is not necessarily a job for his plumbing company. A job for him to quit owning a plumbing company and become a plumber for someone else. >> That's right. He has his tool kit in the car with him. >> I'm ready to start today. >> Yeah. and and you know you guys but doing um him making onethird of what he

should. >> Yeah. >> The 24 year old siphoning off what little you have coming in and you making nothing >> while shooting for the stars >> is killing y'all. >> Mhm. >> So what what we're saying is is it's not necessarily what you're going to be doing 10 years from now. That's right.

But for today, all of you raise you two

raise your income and lower your outgo.

That's right. By cutting the 24y old off and well, he's going to Well, he's going to he quit, you know, quit doing the substance. I mean, lots of 24 year olds face this and don't have parents that bail him out. Happens every day.

And sometimes that's the very thing that helps them turn their life around >> and say, "Here's here's a here's a coach you can go see. Here's a counselor you can go see. Here's a homeless shelter for you to move into. Um, we're we're cheering for you.

We hope you get dry and you turn your life around and we love you. Uh but we're not giving you any more money cuz we don't have any money.

because I lost my job and your dad's business is not going well. So honey, I'm sorry, but you know, love does not

pay the bills in this case. You're going to have to pay your own. And so cut him

off. Have have a sweet conversation. I'm not trying to be angry about it, but this is you are not making him better by paying his bills when you're broke.

>> Mhm. >> Definitely. By the way, even if you're not broke, you're not making him money by paying better by paying his bills.

This kid needs some problems.

How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel

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It's like having one of us walking around with you on your phone going, "Do this." Now you do that and oh, you need to do this. Hello, do this. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Willis is in

Salt Lake City. Hi, Willis. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Dave, how are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> We have a quick question. My wife and I, we are in our 20s. We are completely debt three uh debtree. We're baby step 3B. Um we've been saving for the last about two years for our down payment of a home. We decided to go with a new build and we chose a seven-year ARM. Um

as they were having some end of the year incentives for quick moveins and uh we thought that would be a good idea. I kind of think I know what you're going to say. I have all the numbers and specifics of it, but we feel like it's going to allow us to ease into the home buying purchase and you know all the payments that go with it and we can afford it once it you know the seven years is up but we want to get your opinion on it.

>> You can afford it once the seven years is up.

>> What do you mean?

>> Uh for the first seven years we're going to have a lower rate. So the first year will be a 17. Yeah. Second year will be a 27 >> and then you know at the end of it it's going to go up um our payment and it's going to like plateau at a certain point >> but the first seven years they're kind of giving us a discounted rate so um we don't have to pay as much. >> Yeah. And 100% chance at the end of that it's going to be more.

>> Yes. Yep. >> All right. So you bought a house you couldn't afford?

>> No we could afford it. Yeah. It's actually quite quite in our budget. Um, >> I mean, if you took out a 15-year fixed, can you pay it?

>> Well, the 15 year fix would be uh 32% of

our take. >> So, you bought a house you can't afford. Okay.

>> Yeah. I mean, you called in here, Willis, knowing what I was going to say, right?

You've been here before. You've been listening for more than 20 seconds, haven't you?

>> For the for the most part. For the most part. We uh our goal and you know I've

heard a lot of finance guys talk about and spreading making the spread on the stock market and those sort of things.

Um you know we we plan on starting a family and you know the first-time home buyer and we thought that it'd be incentivized uh to have like that lower payment the first couple of years and use that extra money to pay towards the principal. Uh we plan to be super aggressive where we have that wiggle room to pay down the principal as much as possible and then refinance at the end of the seven years.

>> Well, that's assuming something doesn't happen that prohibits you from refinancing, in which case you get foreclosed on >> because you because you've added risk you've added risk to your scenario. And for 35 years, I've taken calls from people who things that they didn't expect to happen to them happened to them and they were unable to they were unable to refinance. And so, and you

can't pay aggressively on this.

Aggressively might be the emotion, but it's not the math because you don't even have the money to pay a 15-year. You don't have enough income coming in to pay it a 15ear. So, that mean tells me you can't pay you can't aggressively income. >> No, you don't. about it. >> You're 15 years, 32% of your take-home pay. >> Yeah, >> that tells me mathematically you don't have any money to be aggressive.

>> The aggressive word is an emotional word, but it's not a mathematical reality.

>> I guess the point um we we're looking at an income of last year where I I came home with about 180,000.

>> Looking forward to this year, I'm projected to make at least 260 and my

wife is not working right now. So we're going to very quickly double our income as this year. So >> assuming everything goes the way the plan of mice and men want it to go

>> the last two months or is the plan that the numbers that we're looking at, you know, we should be able to with this new year. >> Let me stop this. Okay. What is it that you want from me?

>> I guess your opinion have with the seven-year rate. >> I think it's stupid. >> Uh with our extra margin, it is stupid.

So should we should we cancel the loan?

You should you should have a 15 year you should have a fix 15-year fixed rate where the payment is less than a fourth of your take-home pay. I've said that like 9 million times on the show and

otherwise you're buying too much house

and if your income is going up so quickly and you're going to be so prosperous that should be no step for you. It should be no issue for you. But you rationalize the piss out of this man. I mean, you got rationalization down and you you've crunched so much math that your eyes are crossing. And it's wrong because what you're doing is with an adjustable rate is you're taking on more risk. And 100% of adjustable rate mortgages start in the hole. It's a

margin over an index. And the margin over plus the index is always more than the introductory rate, which means at the first point of adjustment, it's going to max. At the next point of adjustment, it's going to max. At the next point of adjustment, you've lost your dadgum job and the thing maxes and

you lose your house because all this prosperity that you projected as the only possible outcome in your life is wrong. Other things happen in your life and you've set your life up to not survive any storms. And when the big bad

wolf comes and he blows your straw house down, that's what's going to happen. I'm telling you to build a brick house. Be the pig with the brick house. Be the third pig.

And that's what we teach here. This stuff works in good times and it works in bad times and it's the only system that does. So you got man, please

rethink this. You ask me my opinion and I love you enough to tell you the truth.

I want you to win. I hope you prosper. I

hope you go make 160 and 260 and 360 and

460 and nothing bad ever happens in your life. But you'll be the first person I ever met that never had anything bad happen in their life.

Yeah, you're just you're assuming risk with the loan and then assuming that you'll have nothing bad happen in your life. And I understand it because you're in your early 20s, but you're talking to two older guys and honestly, you got more time with Dave on this topic than I think anybody else would get. You're very generous right now. I can't believe the call lasted as long as it did, but very generous. >> I I think he's got a good heart.

>> Well, of course he does. And and and I I'm such a math nerd. It's the same mistake I would have made at 24. It's the same mistake I did make at 24. Why would I freaking burn? >> That's the point. So, don't call somebody who's been doing it for four decades and who made the mistake himself and try to talk him into your version of it. You know, this is the thing. We don't know what we don't know when we're in our 20s. So, you know, yeah,

>> listen to wisdom and experience.

>> I I what I'm looking for after I went broke when I was 28 years old. I lost everything, Willis, because I was stupid and I assumed the mythology that everything was going to keep going like it had always gone.

And it never does. Things change.

And um the tax law changed, the banking

laws changed, the SNLs went broke, and

Dave was on the hook for something that couldn't possibly go wrong. Yeah.

>> Right. >> And it went wrong big time. A lot bigger time than even what we're talking about with you. lot bigger time. And um so

what I've learned is is that I'm looking for systems and elements of truth in my

marriage, in my relationships, in my money that work in

good times and they work in bad times.

>> Yeah. >> Because I'm going to have both. If it only works when everything's working, it's not the truth. It's a facade.

It's you're driving down the street and you walk through the front door of the house and you realize you're on a movie lot and there's nothing behind the front door. That's a facade. That's a fake truth. It looks like it's something, but there's nothing back there. And so I want to build my life after having gone broke and almost losing my marriage almost 30 plus years ago. And I want to teach other people as often as I can to build something that is the third pig.

Be the third pick. Be the brick house.

Take a little longer to build it. Buy a little less. Take a little more time. Be

a little more careful with the budget.

Don't try to be tricking everything.

Don't look for a shortcut. The only shortcut. There's no shortcut to any place worth going. And just take your time.

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but it yields a harvest of righteousness. Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. And that's the basis for everything we teach on this show. If you want to do the hot and bothered sexy thing and go do it, all of you, you're not going to like it when you call in here cuz I'm going to love you enough to tell you the truth.

You know the one thing you missed?

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.comrealestate

on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions looking at us through the glass. Manuel and Aaliyah are here.

Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi Dave. >> Welcome. Where do you guys live?

>> Aenddale, Arizona. >> Very fun. Welcome to Nashville and all the way here to do a debtfree scream. >> Yes. >> I love it. >> That's true. >> How much debt have you paid off?

>> We paid off $320,000.

549. >> Wow. Good for you. And how long did that take? >> Eight years. >> Eight years. Wow. And your range of

income during that time? >> Uh we started around 103 and ended about

240. >> Wow. Cool. What do you all do for a living? Uh, I'm an accountant >> and >> I have a a small um rebar company. Uh,

we do swimming pools.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. Very cool.

Doesn't sound like it's too small to me.

>> Sounds like it's doing pretty good. >> It's growing. >> Yeah. You guys are making some money.

Way to go. You work hard, too, don't you? >> Yeah. Yeah. All the time. I try my best.

>> I bet. I bet. So, 320,000 8 years. And

in Arizona, I'm guessing you paid off your house. >> It includes our house, Dave. >> I'M LOOKING AT WEIRD PEOPLE.

>> YES. >> YEAH. WAY TO GO, you weirdos. A paid for

house. What's this house worth these days? >> Um, I'm guessing around 44 450.

>> Okay, very cool. Have you started retirement savings and investing?

>> Yeah, we have. >> How much is in that nest egg? >> Uh, around 300. >> 300. Wow. Okay, so already 750,000. How

old are you two? >> 40. >> 40 years old. You're on your way to being millionaires by the time you're 45 pretty easily >> hopeful. >> Very cool. Very cool. So, Manuel, how long ago did you start this business?

>> About uh we started at 2017, but um we

really started growing up like in 2021.

>> Okay. All right. Very cool. Very cool.

Now, what country are y'all from?

>> Mexico. >> Mexico. Okay. And how long you been in the States?

>> All All my life.

>> Okay. >> Me? 30 years. >> 30 years. Okay. Wow. Very cool. All right. Fun, fun, fun. Well, congratulations, you guys. It's the American dream, baby. It is.

>> You're going to be millionaires by the time you're 45. Your house is paid for.

You run your own business. You're making bank. You're working your butt off.

You're doing it. I'm so proud of you.

>> Thank you. >> What do you tell people? This the key to having a paid for house in Arizona worth

450,000 when you're 40 years old.

>> Um, like everyone else says, it's the budget. If you're not on a budget, you're not going to make it.

>> Wow. >> Yeah, >> that's true. That's true. >> We got to know where our money's going. >> Okay. So, whose idea with this? How'd this all get started with Ramsay stuff?

>> Uh, I was in Italy. >> The accountant, I'm afraid. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I was in Italy with my sister um vacationing and she's like, "You got to listen to this guy. He says not to use credit cards." I'm like, "What? You're crazy. I have to use my credit card. I need my points." So, um, that's where it

started. And then I got back, we ordered the book, and I told Manny, "We're going to do this." He's like, "Okay, whatever." >> You sound like you're pretty easy. Let's talk into this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, from the beginning, it took me a little while because I was spending a lot of money and I didn't know. >> I was just stopping at any store and whatever, spend money. But suddenly she hit me with um when I saw how much money

we were really doing and throwing away like most of it was going like we were not making any progress. So >> yeah. >> Yeah. And then um yeah 2020 we started

our business. Um and >> how many people working for you Manny?

>> Oh well right now we have six people working. >> How many have you talked into starting to do this since you started doing it? >> Uh two guys. >> I bet. Yeah. They're starting like, >> "Hey, man, you're not buying stuff at the market every day. What's going on, man?" >> Then then you got to tell them the story, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. I told them that we paid a house and they asked me, "How did you do it?" And I tell them how how to handle

money like I try and then I put the show

you the D Ramsey show so they can hear.

>> Okay. Very cool. Very cool. Uh >> we also do um >> my espanol in Poco. So not not much help, right? We also coordinate FPU. Um, thank you. I work at St. John Paul II and they they lend us space to do FPU there. We do pass financi as well. >> Oh, yeah. Very good. Have you run into Andreas Gutierrez?

>> No, we've called him, but we haven't.

Um, >> yeah. >> So, he he's doing a lot of those lessons now, the old Pascin. Yeah, that's he's great. So, that's very cool. That that can help your guys working on the team for sure. Yeah. >> So proud of y'all, man. This is so great. >> Yeah. I'd love to know for our audience, 8 years is a long hall. That's a long

deal. So, I want to know what were the toughest moments or seasons and how'd you press through those?

>> Um, I think some of the harder parts

were like when our business was a little slower, like in the winter he wouldn't have a lot of jobs, so we couldn't really do a lot of progress during those months. But um in September we took over

a couple of other companies because one of the rebar companies um shut down. So we've gotten a lot of work since then.

>> Good. >> And that's that's really helped us.

>> So how what kept you focused? That's what I want to hear. >> Um I think just not owing anyone

anything. >> Yeah. You're playing the long game.

>> Yeah. >> If we're going to do all this hard work, we need to show have something to show for it, right? >> Yes. Yes. >> Good for y'all. If we live like no one else, maybe later we can live and give like no one else. >> Very cool. Very cool. Well, you guys are amazing. I'm very, very proud of you.

All right, one more time. You tell people the key is the budget.

>> Yes. >> And I guess you need a manny cuz he really didn't resist much. He just did whatever you told him to do, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. For the most part. There was some parts where he was like, "No, I work so I got to spend money." >> I was that kind of guy. Yeah. I >> It's different now. Yeah, >> that's good. Well, there's eight years worth of work there. That's good. Yeah, good stuff. Very proud of you guys. I'm honored to meet you. I'm proud. You're heroes, man. You're on your way to be a millionaires. It's very, very cool.

>> All right. Manuel, Manny, and Elia.

Eliah. >> I >> I'm going to mess it up. I'm sorry. From Phoenix, Arizona area. And who's this?

>> This is Yasmine. >> And how old is Jasmine? >> Uh, 14. >> Ah, okay. All right. Very cool. I Manny,

you need a gun. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. To protect her. I do.

>> Yeah.

>> All right, count it down. Let's get a debtree scream going.

>> 3 2 1

We're debtree.

>> Very cool. Congratulations you guys.

Very, very proud of you. Very proud of you, man. That's fun. Yeah.

>> All right, man. I tell you what. You start doing rebar, that's like work right there. >> Oh, I have >> Your back is hurting just thinking about it. >> This will shock you, but I have a little experience with rebar, Dave. My one of my college summer jobs. Very little, but it was a full summer working on a masonry crew. >> You did? >> I did. Now, I was the lowest man on the totem pole. >> I'm guessing. So, that time you carried that a while, you were even lower. >> Excelling

work. And here's what's fun about this.

They take over a company. So on this de journey, this is what's great. He starts a company and they keep going. They're slogging through it. And then an opportunity arises to take over a couple other companies. And he's on his way to creating a lot of jobs. And what's really fun, jobs for guys, they're going to eventually become debtree. Yeah.

>> And for entrepreneurs, if they can grab this, this is the other side of this deal. Debt-free entrepreneurship, solo

ownership. That's exciting stuff. And as you say, that's changing family trees right here. >> Yeah. Yeah. It changes everything. It's a completely different way of looking at things and and it's why you work so hard. >> Yeah. I mean, it's what why you get up.

I want to change I want to change my legacy. I want to change my destiny.

That's right. And that that's what those two hard workers have done. I'm really proud of you guys. >> Very very well done. That's very very cool. Wow. Well, and here's the other

thing. Our data says that if you come

here from a c another country le leg legally and and set up shop like those two have done that you're four times more likely to become a millionaire than one of us that was born here. >> Really? Yeah. Because the great American dream. >> Yeah. >> We're here to get it, man. We're here to do it. She's second gen.

>> That's right. >> But he's first gen. And uh that's the numbers tell us that. And so, you know, I believe it can happen. I believe it can happen. And that's why I came to America because it's the land of opportunity. And uh that's why it makes me so mad when some little snot on their

$1,100 iPhone is preaching socialism

because it's not the land of opportunity for them. Oh, you you found out there was work involved.

Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

You'll find helpful info on everything from life insurance, health insurance, identity theft protection, and more. And when you're ready to get the coverage you need, you can connect with a Ramsey trusted insurance pro who will only get you what you need at the best price. Go to ramseysolutions.com/ insurance. ramiesolutions.com/ins insurance.

Our scripture of the day, James 1 and4.

Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. Thomas Edison said, "When you've exhausted all possibilities, remember this. You haven't.

I do like that. That is a that's a

definite Edison mindset, too, for sure." >> All right, up next is going to be Avery in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Avery. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my gift my parents gifted my two siblings and I $10,000 each to start a

family investment club and they're also adding an additional 10,000 so we'll have 40,000 all together. Um it's a small start, but we formed a corporation with four equal shares, all of our family members, and we'll be meeting quarterly to decide how to invest. And part of this plan really is just to learn how to work together financially as my parents have accumulated a really nice nest egg through rental properties and businesses. And we want to be prepared to steward that really well um down the line one day together.

Wow, that is a neat goal,

>> a neat reason for doing this. Um, it

does scare me a little bit, but it's a neat reason for doing it. It scares me because, um, you know, of course, you didn't have to put money into it. Your parents just nest egged the whole thing.

So, it's not you don't really have anything at risk personally >> um other than the fact that as soon as somebody said $10,000 is in your name, you emotionally take ownership of it.

But, um but it really I mean they they they set the whole thing up. That's a pretty cool um training wheels uh to get

you guys to work together. So, um,

well, I mean, I I I'm always going to go with the things that I live by and that we teach, which is I don't borrow money.

So, I'm not going to use 40,000 as a down payment on a rental.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Um, and I don't do single stocks

um because of the risk. I do mutual funds. The problem with putting the whole 40,000 just in mutual funds, which is probably what I would do with it if it was my money, is it doesn't give you

any reason to work together because you just put it in there and forget it and then there's no reason to have a meeting. There's no uh >> no friction in the relationship that you

need to learn to work through, which is the reason for doing this is for someone to disagree about something, right? and we go, "Okay, how are we going to handle this disagreement?" And everybody gets a different vote and all of that. And so that only comes up if there's something moving around in the investments >> and uh so that it kind of defeats the purpose if you just plump $40,000 into a

mutual fund and forget it >> and let it and let it run, which is kind of what I do. Okay. I I don't that's kind of I mean I buy real estate that I pay cash for, but you're not buying real estate for 40 grand. So, um, you know, I

guess, you know, you you might be playing, um, some single stocks and get to have some healthy discussions around which ones to keep and which ones to buy. And, um, and if you blow the whole thing up, you just lost 40 grand. It's not the end of the world because the purpose of it is not as much turning the 40 grand into 400 as it is the learning

the learning that comes from everybody having to work together, right? So it might just be that I just start running a single stock portfolio. Although >> I I wouldn't do I need to say real loud and clear. I wouldn't do that as an investment. But this is not really an investment. This is a relational

exercise. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. Like practice for what's going to happen in the future. >> Yeah. And and so you know, how do we make a decision about this piece of real estate after mom and dad are gone? Well, the same way we did when we were talking about these other two things over here four years ago, right? And right and so

that but there has to be some movement

in order for there to be a discussion.

>> Right. >> And and so you know that's what I it kills the so I don't think I'm going to use the investing principles although I

would not go into debt at all on this period. If they want you guys all to sign up for a mortgage, no thank you.

>> I'll pass. Okay. >> No, but but I guess it's a sing a small

single stock portfolio and you guys study and learn about each other >> in the buying and selling of some single stocks, I guess. But that's again that's more about the game than it is the actual investment. >> I actually think you I was leaning towards where you were headed and then you said it. And I think the best part of this is not just the practice and and

learning stocks and things like I think it's the research piece and then watch the siblings all of you watch each other who's who's a little bit more into the numbers who's got a greater tolerance for risk you know just it's a great learning experience for one day if you've got to work together on something like this that is far bigger and I think it's a wildly uh kind of fun experiment

as long as you're smart and savvy about it uh let it be a learning experience.

but learn not just about the money piece of it, but about each other. I I think that was a really great observation and I agree with that. >> That's why this is a fun exercise, not because of the investment aspect of it.

>> Yeah. But because it forces them to work together. I'm thinking about my three kids. >> Well, I was going to ask you about that because they're in the business here.

>> Yeah. And so, and they are all arguing about the operation of the business, you know, because they all sit on the operating board, right? and um even though Daniel is the president, but the other two, you know, are part, you know, they're functioning as owners together.

So, they're having that discussion. I've got a bunch of real estate. Rachel's husband, Winston, runs most of our real estate. And I can imagine that if we're not here that a lot of uh Winston's

brother-in-law or sister-in-laws or wife would defer to him >> on what they want, what the family want to do with real estate. They would consider him the expert >> because he is okay. And that kind of thing. So that that's the interaction and the the play. I guess we've accidentally done this.

>> Yeah. >> And but it wasn't with as much intentionality as that, which is very interesting. >> Yeah. >> Molly is in Nashville. Hey Molly, how are you? >> I'm well Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um well, I have a question. I have inherited a 160 year old home. Whoa.

>> Um that's located on our family's farm.

and trying to figure out how to navigate this um the renovations. Um whether it

be taking out a massive renovation loan

or to just go as I can. Um

>> how much in renovations need to be spent?

>> Between 250 and 300.

>> Okay. So, the home has not been maintained or updated for decades.

It It's livable. I'm living in it currently. Um I spent about 40,000 cash

in renovations for >> Are you the soul? >> That's last year. >> Yes, I am. >> Okay. All right. And how many acres is it sitting on?

>> Um the acreage is between my other

family members, but 70 acres.

>> Oh, so they don't they have the acorage.

>> Correct. But it's sitting on the farm.

How much acreage do you have?

>> Um, what's with this is three three acres. >> Oh, none. Okay. All right. Um, but

you're just surrounded by your brothers and sisters ownership.

>> That part of the farm, the I should get another 15 acres, but that has not been distributed yet. >> Okay. What is that worth?

>> Um, the home or the land?

>> 15 acres.

Well, right now the growing rate in Robertson County is about 33 35,000 an

acre.

>> Okay. So, a few of those acres were they

to be sold if you could put them in a way that didn't damage the family property off on one corner. You might

get a little bit there to fund some of your renovation.

If you sold a 5acre track in the corner, that would pay for a lot of your renovation, wouldn't it?

>> What's your household income?

Um, last year was 115 taxable.

>> Okay.

All right. And where were you living before?

>> Um, on on it's pretty much a family compound. >> Okay. So, you're living in a different propert on a different house within the property. >> Correct. Yes. >> But you didn't get that?

>> No. >> Okay. So, you don't have any other assets?

>> Correct. >> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to cash flow whatever renovations I do here because an old house can be a black hole. It can be a money pit. Um they don't build them like they used to. Thank God.

And so cash flow it with the acreage sale or with your income is what I would do. Sounds interesting though. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 165. Take The First Step Toward Financial Freedom Today | April 23, 2026


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw.

taking your calls.88255225.

Let's go to Charlotte, North Carolina and talk to Alyssa. What's up Alyssa?

>> Hi you guys. Thanks so much for taking my call. I appreciate what you guys do so much. >> Of course. Thanks for calling in. What's up? >> Okay, so um the simple question is we

are wondering, my husband and I are wondering if there is any way and how you might suggest the best way is to get out car lease early. Um we have no

consumer debt other than this um car lease which we refer to as our stupid tax. Um but we are um expecting a baby

and um just found out some early on and

just reevaluating our budget and um have known for a while that this Carly's you know wasn't the best decision but um are now at the point of trying to look into possibly getting out of it and just have no idea where to start.

>> Okay. Um how much is the lease? What do you pay every month?

We pay $4.99 a month and we have about

22 months left on um on the on the payment schedule. Um and the buyout amount is about 29,000.

>> Okay. Um and do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> We do. So um we do. We have about 15,000 liquid. Um but two things with that, you

know, one we are expecting and I am a high-risisk pregnancy. Um, and so we I

have type 1 diabetes, so there's just some interesting things with pregnancy there. And then, um, two, you know, we we do have of that 15,000, we have thought, well, if we are able to get out of lease, we'll need at least a portion of that to purchase a car. Um, so those

are kind of our only two thoughts there.

>> Oh, so if you if the only cash you have, is that is that is that basically your emergency fund right now?

>> That is. Yeah. >> Okay. So, if you got out of this lease, you'd have to take a chunk of that to buy a car for you and this new baby, right? >> Yeah. Correct. >> Oo. Well, let me let me put you on pause

for a second because the truth is you I wouldn't do anything today with this. You are in stor mode. I would not jump into uh that savings. You need it there.

That's cushion. That's for your peace of mind. Um and you've been paying this $4.99 payment. I'd pay it a little bit longer until the baby comes. When does the baby get here?

Uh good nine months. So we're we're brand new. Oh, it's brand new. Found out. >> What's your husband earn?

>> Um he is in sales. Um he earns about

safely 80. Um but you know, this past year was actually closer to 100. So um but safely, you know, 80,000.

>> And you're high-risisk. Are you able to work through the pregnancy or any portion of it? >> Yeah, I'm working. Yeah, I'm work I work from home. I work remote and I'm able to do that throughout the pregnancy. Um, our plan, our hope is for me to go part-time if the only thing that is preventing us from me going part-time is this stupid lease. >> God damn it. And And what do you make when you work full-time?

>> Uh, I make about 70.

>> Okay. Um, >> so we're just stacking cash right now. I mean, that's our plan. Um, yeah.

>> What other debts do you have?

>> Uh, nothing. >> Oh, that's the only debt. >> Sorry. Besides a mortgage. Besides a mortgage. >> Okay. So, is it possible that on 15 thou 150,000

you can cut back a couple of areas so that this uh paying this lease feels a

little more tenable and in the meantime you continue stacking cash whatever extra margin that you have because I don't like the idea of you going down to

no emergency fund and then feeling the

pressure of having to stack that up very quickly. Do you see what I'm saying? because you are going to have to get a new car if you do that.

>> Right. Right. >> And that's the part I don't like. >> One thought which I I have a feeling you're going to say, "No, we do have both of us do have Roth IAS."

>> It's not It's not desperate. You're not in You're not in a It's not desperate times, right? Desperate measures.

>> I didn't know if mine I mean mine we just have 7,000 in, so it's not a huge amount. So I didn't know if you'd say, "H good to just >> No, because it's locked in." Okay. it's locked in and by the time you take it out, uh, not only are you going to have to pay taxes and, you know, penalties on it, but yeah, if you just if you just up and pull that money out and take it out like a contribution, you're going to pay a 10% penalty.

>> Well, are you talking about just pulling out the money that you've invested, not the growth?

>> Yeah, I'm talking about the contribution, just 7,000 that we've put in my Roth IRA.

>> Yeah, I understand what you're saying. You could pull that money out and not have any anything attached to it, but I wouldn't do that for the simple principle of you're in a situation or a season of life where you're changing your behavior with money. And what that means is I'm going to start doing the smartest things as I possibly can with my money. >> Sure. Right. And so once you know the

information, just abide by it. Uhhuh.

>> So, last question. Is there a world in which you would suggest getting like a smaller loan like refinancing the lease or going to like a a credit union or something like that to get >> I'm thinking I was thinking about that.

But here's what I here's where you're at. You would still be >> out your emergency fund, right? Because you'd have the 15,000 and then we'd have to come up with another oh 9,000 to fill the gap.

>> Right. That's where we were thinking about the Roth, but you're saying no.

>> No. and that yeah, it doesn't solve your problem. My for me your biggest problem is you need cash when the baby comes and you need as much cash as you can because to your point >> it's not just the baby anymore. You're at a high-risisk status too. So I'd want if I were in your shoes, I'd want my deductible uh put aside, you know, I'd

want the family deductible put aside.

I'd want money set aside so if we need meals and extra help, you know, all of those things cuz you just never, don't get me wrong, I wish you nothing but the best, but you just never know how these situations go. or suddenly two months in you can't work. You're you got to go on bed rest cuz your your diabetes gets up.

So >> yeah, I I think Jade I think this is the first time I've in years of doing the show I've ever told somebody stay in the lease. >> Well, you at this point you have Listen, if you called me today and there was no baby, I would consider saying hey go down to the credit union, you know, get a $15,000 loan, you know, so that you have the money you can buy this thing out. Yeah, I would do that in a heartbeat. But even I'll be honest, even

with your numbers, it's it's close. And the reason I say it's close because I'm like, okay, you'd have to take out a $15,000 loan, then you'd have to turn around and take, I don't know, five or 8,000 more just to get a vehicle, and you'd end up at the same you'd end up pretty pretty close to where you are now. So, that's the only reason I don't even know that I would mess with it. I think that I would just start stacking up the cash to buy it out.

>> Yeah.

it's just this pesky it's just a lingering amount that we're just hoping to you know get rid of but that might just be our stupid tax >> and it I honestly it is because when you really run out the math on both sides it's it's not really worth it to go and get that uh loan from the credit union and then have to add more cash to it.

It's just at that point, I'd say, "Hey, just pay the thing off." Because here's the thing, in the time in this next 9 months, you're going to stack up a bunch of money. And as soon as this baby is born and everybody comes home healthy, you're going to completely buy this lease out if you want to. You might by then you might think, "Oh, well, we'll just run it out and then from there on we'll just buy a car." >> Yeah, we're going to turn it in and buy a car. Yeah, that's exactly our plan.

Yeah. >> Hey, it's a good question and I love that you're thinking about it. I would just take a chill pill, push pause for now, and uh get it rolling in 9 months

>> and never lease a car again. I know that's you already know that you >> It's the most expensive way to operate a vehicle, period. >> Yeah.

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All right, let's roll out to one of my favorite places in the United States, San Antonio, Texas. Man, they do queso

right. And let's talk to Harley. What's up, Harley?

>> Hey, John. Hey, Jade. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Uh, my question is right in your I think my questions right in your wheelhouse.

>> Perfect. >> Um, I'll just dive right in. Um, so I'm getting married to the love of my life in about 30 days. Gross.

And at which point >> I know, right? Um, so at that point, we're going to move in together. We're going to combine finances. We both want to combine finances.

We both want to be totally united as a couple. Uh I'm the nerd and she's the free spirit. Um so for myself and for everyone at home, could you guys just go over some of the reasons why we combine finances with our spouse? Some of those benefits that come with being united.

Um and then for myself, how do I engage her on this topic without sounding preachy and in a way that kind of excites her? Like how do we set these shared goals and run after them together?

>> Very cool. Um, the first thing I would tell you is there's some

there's some what I what I would call nerd work. There's some research data that some researchers went down the rabbit hole and trying to see if was there was there a causal or a correl

correlative link between couples who shared their accounts and couples who didn't. And not to our surprise, but to

surprise out in the world, there was couples who shared a single account were

forced to make planning decisions together. And because there was the artificial like uh

environment that was the research study, there wasn't a way out of it. So they'd agreed to do this. And so that forced them to sit down at a table and figure out what do we value? Organic foods or non-organic foods? um this kind of car, that kind of car, the the temperature at 78 or the temperature at 72, which is going to cost us an extra this much money every month. They were forced to have those kind of conversations that so many couples just blow by. And um

their relationship quality was higher.

And so I think the the in and of itself sharing the account that isn't the magic sauce. What's the magic sauce is it forces you to have big, real, authentic, deep conversations

about how y'all are going to do life together. And that leads to your next question. Um, the fact that you already have this level of self-awareness is pretty impressive. Most people call us seven to 10 years into their marriage and they're like, "We hate each other because he always tries to uh hit me over the head with his spreadsheets or, you know, she wants to look at spreadsheets and I just want to go, you know, buy Pokemon cards or whatever." And so the fact that you already know like, "Oh, I can I can be a lot with my spreadsheets and she likes to have really nice things all the time." Um, the fact that you already know that now, that's a good thing.

wisdom along and and I'll pass it along to you. He says, 'When you're when you're combining it for the first time and one of you is like a like died in the wool nerd and one of you is a free spirit, the nerd makes the first pass of the budget and then to quote Dave, they pass

it across the table and then they shut their mouth and they let their spouse

look at it and a there's going to be

what I would call principled things like, "Hey, you have $19 a week for us to eat on. Actually, I've been to a grocery store. Food costs $300 a week.

So, we have to adjust that. And so, there's the practical changes, right?

You have $9 a month for water bill. I like to shower more than 32 seconds. And you're like, we're we're nerd family. We can get done with showers quicker, right? And so, then there's a practical.

And then there's the, "Hey, what if we enjoyed our life, too? What if we lived?

What if we smiled sometimes?" And as a nerd, you're like, "No smiling, just savings." Right? And so it but it's it's

you saying, "Hey, I made a first pass at this, but your voice at this table really matters." And both of you have to practice letting each other speak up. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I uh I kind of figured maybe that would be a good way to do it, but I didn't want to come off as like here's my idea and what I think we should do and do you agree?

>> Well, and the conversation have a voice.

The conversation before that is you going first with I'm a nerd.

Would it be cool if I made a first pass at a budget and I'm going to hand it to you because I know I'm going to miss some stuff like joy and fun and laughter and meals and I want you to be fully at

this thing, right? And if she says, "Yeah, that'd be awesome." Then that that's fantastic. If you think she's going to look at it and she's already nervous to challenge you and she's just going to hand it back and say, "It looks fine." Um Dave would say I'll say she

has to change at least one or two line items. Like get in the practice of I'm gonna change something.

>> And that makes sense. >> You get in the practice of smiling and saying ah I'm glad I'm glad you I'm glad you're here, right? Not well I did the research and I you know that kind of thing, right?

>> Absolutely. Definitely.

>> What do you think, Jade? What am I missing here? >> I mean I think you're right. I mean, yeah, a lot of the data does show that the couples that combine their money, they just have a higher relational satisfaction. And I mean, I can tell you anecdotally, I really think it's because it's like that scripture, where your treasure is, your heart is there also.

And I think that when you combine money and you see people's spending habits and you see the things that they value and you see their little quirks, it causes you to get to know them better and you go, "Oh, okay. It's so weird that she like to your points. Oh, so weird she only buys, you know, uh the the the

national brand. She never buys, you know, the the knockoff brand. And then you can ask questions about that. Like you just get to know each other better.

You figure out this is what they value.

This is what they don't value. This is what, you know, is a trigger for them. This is not what, you know, this doesn't trigger them. I just think that that's such a cool thing to have from the very beginning. And it it it costs you nothing. Just just put your name on the account and then just let it fly.

Harley, have you ever Have you all ever lived together?

>> Uh, no. No. >> Okay. So, it's going to astonish you that what you used to accomplish with one bottle of multi-purpose soap. She

has 19 different bottles that do different things.

>> And don't question it. >> And you have you have one halfused tube of uh lotion that you got from a hotel once.

She's got 117 different lot. It's all like, right. But it's all these you don't even know, right? And um she's

going to probably want you to wash socks and underwear like after every time you wear them, right? And not once a month like you're >> used to grouped with the right colors, please. >> Exactly. So all all this stuff is like part of those. It's the conversations beneath the conversations that almost always go undisussed and it leads to her

going ugh gh and you going geez and then you look up and two years of gh and good

grief and one of y'all putting the thermostat up and the other one putting it down without telling the other person. It builds this the it it tills

the soil for resentment and having this

just having be just something as simple as ch is joining accounts man it changes your life I'll also say this you want to be a real gangster ask her if she wants to go ahead and keep her bank

>> interesting and why is that >> why not

>> why not I mean if you if you have a case for my bank is superior to your bank and what like so be it. But I'm just trying to think of ways that you could be extra hospitable in a situation where she already knows you're kind of the money guy and that's kind of your identity and you're kind of the kind of the spreadsheet bro. A way to come in and already say, "Dude, my whole life is going to be in service to you is, hey, I'm going to pull all my money out of my bank and I'm going to reroute my direct deposit to your bank.

>> Yeah, that's great. That's that's really insightful. It's just it's just little bitty stuff. You >> guys taking my call? >> Yeah, you bet, man. And when do you all get married?

>> Uh May 23rd. >> May 23rd. >> Y'all spending a bunch of money on it?

Is it going to be awesome? Big >> uh it's going to be fun. It's going to be nice. Uh we both have good jobs, so we're able to cash flow it. Um >> I probably would have set a lower budget if she was like, "Well, hey, we want to have something nice and we can." I said, "You know what? You're right. We can.

Why wouldn't we do that?" >> Dude, you're already you're already you're so far ahead of me, brother.

That's that's exciting. >> Good for you. >> But she's also I'd say she's the free spirit. She is very responsible.

She has good habits. It's not blowing things out of proportion. So, I think there'll be a lot of middle ground for us to be able to meet on and feel like we're both doing the right thing. >> I think you guys are going to be just fine.

I think you're a good guy. I think she's a great lady. And this is going to be good.

and you get to build the trust of saying, I do what I say I'm going to do and my spouse does what he says he's going to do. And that is like relational equity that is so so powerful on down the line. And it's not just with money.

It shows up when you face other hard times. You know, you can depend on each other and you know you can trust each other. And that is just one of the many non-financial benefits of combining your finances.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait nonsense headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

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small rate increase should not hold you back, especially since waiting could mean facing higher prices as the busy home buying season ramps up. Medium home median home prices went up to 415 grand

last month, which is typical for the spring market. And with more homes available and more buyers entering the market, it's a great time to buy or sell. To learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or on the YouTubes. Let's go out to Chicago, Illinois, and talk to Chelsea. What's up, Chelsea?

>> Hi. >> How we doing? >> Doing good. How are you today? >> We're doing great. What's going on?

>> So, I've been working through the baby steps. I'm on baby step number two. And I'm really proud of the progress I've made. I actually keep the quote live like no one else now so you can live like no one else later in a couple places just so that like I stay focused on my learn long-term goals.

>> Awesome. >> But lately, I've been struggling um with

feeling like whether it's worth it. Um, I'm a single 30-year-old with no kids.

Um, and it's just starting to feel like I'm constantly missing out. I'm saying no to friends, family vacations. Um, you

and I'm not putting myself in spaces, right, where I can meet people cuz I'm not going out and it's just it's getting really lonely. Um, so >> how much do you have left?

>> Um, I still have about 60K in student

loans and then I'm working on my car payment now, which is sitting at about 10. So about 70 altogether.

>> How much have you paid off so far?

>> I was at 120 when I started.

>> Wow. Way to go. >> You're halfway home, man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much time? Like what's the timeline on this 70,000?

>> Um I probably should sit down and like remap that out. Yes.

>> Um because I haven't um done that for a while now, but I am on year two

>> of like working this program.

>> Okay. So, I love this question. Um, and

hopefully I can say something that'll that'll encourage you. So, my husband and I, our timeline was 7 and 1/2 years of paying off debt. Now, granted, we were married and so I had somebody to kind of, you know, look over to when I was fall. Yeah. Somebody to lament with.

Um, and yours is a little bit different, but you can find that person. I think that person's out there. Um, but a couple of things that I just want to throw out there to you. Number one, you got to know a timeline.

I think for you, even if it's shifting and it's not the same as it was, I think every once in a while looking up and recalculating it and reccalibrating it, that just does so much for you. Anytime you can recalculate numbers and it looks a little bit better, that's going to give you a little bit of a boost. Even if it's just a a little bit, oh, it's 3 weeks closer than it was. Um, I think that you need to sit down and do that tonight.

slightly rev up that that that timeline

so you calculate it out and you're like, "Oh, man." and then you you say, "Well, what would happen if I, you know, added a little side hustle on Saturday?" And then suddenly you see the timeline go down a little bit. So, I think you could really use um uh the motivation that

that brings. So, that's thing one. Um,

and I do think that you also in that you need to carve out a couple of milestones that you can build some rewards around because when you're in this thing, the average person, John, when they walk the baby steps, they are out of it in 24 months out of baby step two. That's kind of like on average, it's like a two one and a half to two year sprint. When you're one of these people like Chelsea or like me or John, I don't know how long was yours. >> Well, I was an idiot so it was a long time.

But my point is when it's when it's longer than that one and a half to two year sprint, when you're getting into four, five, seven years, >> it's a beating. >> It's a beating. And honestly, it's not good for your mental health to say, I don't do anything. I, you know, I don't go inside of a restaurant.

I don't do this. So, if you're a person who's beyond that timeline, you need to be thinking like for Sam and I, it was like, "Okay, after a certain point, we were sleeping on an air mattress for so long, we're like, "Hey, we're 4 years in, we're buying a mattress and we're buying a bed and for for crying out loud, right?" And then there was a uh I think at the six uh the six-year point, we needed a new vehicle and so we stopped paying off debt and we bought another vehicle. It was, you know, cash flowed and it wasn't, you know, overly priced.

But when you're in a longer stint, you do have to be very intentional about planning.

to do something to keep myself going. At some points, maybe it's a pizza. At some points, maybe it's like I'm just going to like uh drive to the beach and have, you know, have a good time and I'm not going to stay more than one night in a hotel, but I'm also not going to take a flight right at your fourth year, right?

So, I want you to hear me on that because at that point, yeah, you're not going to John, you don't disappear from society for 5 years, >> right? And and Chelsea, you called something out that's it's I think it's really important and I'm challenging you, but I want to I'm challenging you like on your team. Does that make sense?

>> What does saying no to everybody and

everything? Tell me more about that.

So, okay. Most recently, I'll say I feel

like I'm kind of like failing in my friendships where they'll be like, "Oh, I just need like a girls night. Like, today was just so hard. Like, can you know I get all my friends together and they want to go out for the crib?" And

I'm like, "No, I can't, you guys. It's not in my budget." And so, I feel like I'm failing in my friendship.

>> Okay. So, I This was like a big eye opener for me when I'm in I'm in the same spot you are. Now granted, like like Jade, I was married and so I had someone to be sad with, but I had some

buddies who were when I say light years ahead of me financially, I mean comically light years ahead of me. I was there like it it was brutal.

>> But we just started like Monday or Tuesday nights. It we everyone would just clean out their fridge.

And so I had some of the wealthiest people I knew at the time bringing over half eaten casserles, a bottle of wine with like half of a glass left in it.

And those ended up being magic Tuesday

nights or Monday nights and everyone would just show up at the house and bring what they had. And there was times I went out and we all hung out and I

drank water. I I drank diet coke or I had enough in my budget for one drink and that was it. And and so it was like

>> I I it was part of it was like from my meal budget, right? But it it was not an excuse to go crazy. It was not an excuse to whatever, but it also was an excuse to withdraw from society because being

lonely is going to is going to kill you, too. >> Yeah. This is a this is creative. Like this is just you creatively solving that problem. Cuz I'll tell you this, I think the best hangs are at the house.

>> Yes. Yes. >> You know, to your point, it's a potluck.

Everybody brings a little something cuz then you're just there to chop it up about whatever happened, right? Your girlfriend could talk about her breakup. You could talk about what happened at work and you're just you just want to be together. It's not about, you know, the the the the egg rolls at Chili's. You know what I'm saying? >> And you'll find you'll find now um again

like the folks I meet now who you might think are famous or have a big Instagram, almost all those gatherings are hanging out of people's houses. Yeah. people wearing shorts and t-shirts and having a great great time. And it it

once you get the hang of the create like the creative spend time with your friends time, um, man, you look at restaurants differently and you look at going out all night until 3:00 a.m. Like you just look at all that differently and you actually get rejuvenated from hanging out with your friends. And in your situation, tell people to bring over other friends that y'all haven't met yet. And that can be super weird and awkward and like, "Oh, that guy's just eyeball." Like, it can. But also, um,

the research tells me that at work and a

friend of a friend is a great way to

meet people in the new world now where dating has been so outsourced to apps.

>> I'm terrified of apps, but yeah.

>> Good. Good. You should be. Get off of them. They're they're nonsense. But the but but all it to say is I I don't want you to have think you have to pick a a life or a um or a free-for-all. You can

absolutely be buzzing through your debt. And if you have a group of friends who are ride or die with you, um they're going to support you. >> And also, >> you can show up and just say, "No, I'm drinking Diet Coke tonight. It's all good." And let me also say this. I will

tell you after 7 and 1/2 years of sacrifice being on the other side of that and the debt being gone and me being at different phases in my life, I never looked back, John, and was like, man, there was a pair of jeans I wanted back in 2013 and I never got them. Or there was a movie that I wanted to see in the theater and I never saw it. Like I you don't think about it. Like once the time has passed, >> but when you're 40, you're 40 and you got your person and you don't owe anybody any money.

>> You can pay for floor seats, right? The concert's awesome.

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Let's roll out to Pensacola, Florida, and talk to Monica. Hey, Monica. What's going on?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on?

>> Um, I'm 47. My husband is 49. We have

two teenage daughters. Um, we make a

very comfortable income, but seven years ago, I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease. >> Oh, man. I'm sorry.

>> Thank you. >> How's it play out now? >> I'm Well, I just recently stopped

working. >> Okay. >> Um, yeah, it's it's starting to get a little harder. >> Yeah. Um but we're technically in baby

step two. Um cleaning up some financial

messes.

>> And um my question is so after baby step

three, should we prioritize

funding retirement, paying off the house, or like experiences with our daughters while I'm

still well enough? um to travel and

things like that.

>> Yeah. All of the above.

>> Yeah. >> All of the above, >> you know. Tell me tell me more about the baby step two. Tell me tell me what's left to pay off.

>> Yeah. We have um so at the beginning of

the year I I was taking a look at our finances and just realized, you know, I

feel like we're treading water constantly. And so I said I told my

husband, "We just need to get get rid of the stupid credit card. I hate seeing

that thing." >> Um, so we've paid off $7,000 in credit card debt >> and then we owe 39 in two 39,000 in two

car loans. Um, >> how do you guys earn? You said you live real comfortably. What do you what's what's the income?

>> Yeah. um between my husband's military retirement, his VA disability, we and

then my um I I was very fortunate to get

a disability retirement um from my

employer. >> We earn about 26,000 a month

>> and that's never changing.

>> Um he has I guess he has a very stable

job. Um, >> did you say 26k a month?

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. >> Wow. >> So, his military retirement, that portion that goes on forever and your disability will go on, right?

>> Correct. Until I reach retirement age,

which is the the problem. I don't know that I will actually reach retirement age. >> Right. >> Um, and and we have 1.2 two already in

retirement. >> Okay. So, the good news is, yeah, you're exactly right. You have a wonderful, comfortable income coming in. There's no reason in the world that this 39,000 in cars shouldn't be paid off in the next couple months. Like, lickety split.

>> Two months. >> Yep. >> You know what I mean? And I mean, yeah, you you're used to, right? You're used to enjoying $26,000 a month, but I think

you tightened the purse strings a little bit in in several key areas. And I think you can have these cars knocked out, you know, in in three months and and be rolling. >> Absolutely. >> Now, what about the mortgage?

>> It's quite high. Um, we have 648,000

less on it. >> Mhm.

And what's it worth? >> Um, or it's probably worth about 800

850.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, yeah, I I think that you're in

baby step three. Well, I didn't ask you.

Do you have any liquid cash? Surely you do.

>> Um, we we have some, but we've decided to throw that at the cars this start to throwing throw that at the cars this month. >> And how much was that?

>> Um, it was actually not as much as you would expect. >> Okay. >> It was 13,000.

>> Okay. So, and that cleared out your liquid cash.

Yes. >> Okay. So, that's exactly right. I probably would have kept maybe a thousand, but you guys have such a great uh monthly income. Uh next check, just pull out $1,000, keep it aside for baby step one, and yeah, keep chucking away at this these two car loans right quick.

And then you're quickly going to save up 3 to 6 months of expenses. In your case, I would do 6 months of emergency expenses. And then from there, yeah, my whole entire goal would be, of course, we're investing 15%, of course we're putting aside a little bit for college, but John, I would set a vacation and experiences fund >> for sure. >> And I would just fill that bad boy up.

You guys have a lot of expendable cash.

And yeah, I would do it up. I would have a great time because as long as you're doing the things that that cause you to be a financially responsible adult, which you are in the process of doing and and that checklist is it's five things. If you're a person who is living on a budget, which it sounds like you could tighten yours up quite a bit. If you're a person who is debtree and prioritizing being debtree.

If you're a person who carries the proper insuranceances. If you're a person who is prioritizing savings in the way of having your baby step three, making sure that you're putting away for, you know, 15% for retirement, putting extra on your house, right? Your home is a forced savings account. And finally, if you're prioritizing generosity, as long as you're in that land, then yeah, start putting money aside.

And yeah, I think that you do need to enjoy life. There are certain things that jump right to the top of the list. You know what I'm saying?

loved ones over the years, okay? And

>> Mhm. >> I again this is this is um anecdotal so

take it for what you want but I heard I've heard fe people talking about in their grief about the trip they took one

time me and my husband did x y or z or

one time me and I've heard that some

but man the things I hear over and over again are the meals and the really hard

laughs.

And so as you're thinking through this this idea you have of shared experiences, um, of course y'all talk about the vacations y'all want to go on and the I

call them the funeral stories, right?

Like the one time we all went to Italy or whatever the thing is y'all want to do.

But a really valuable way to just um

extract the soul out of the life you have going for you that's that's left, right, >> is schedule a a a weekly breakfast with your with your kids one-on-one.

>> Schedule a a time that like they're

going to tell that story

>> that mom o after seven years, right? And

then the next 10 years as this as this

challenging disease slowly took over, we

went to breakfast every week and she always got the same weird pancakes and I always tried something like those are the stories, right? And so think of the big things but invest in the little things. And here's the beauty of those little things. They're they're relatively inexpensive financially. They come at a cost to time and intentionality and planning, but man, they don't cost a lot of money. And then when the big concert comes to town, good grief, you better go and be on the front row screaming with all you got, right?

Because y'all have the y'all have the resources to do that.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh my gosh. Thank you.

>> And and be careful about

it sounds bananas to to most of our listeners because they're sitting here going, "You make 26 grand a month.

That's what comes in your house." >> But you know as well as I do that can just slip through your fingers. So Jade's wisdom on make sure you're

budgeting and you're intentional with this money. Y'all will be astonished at how much you actually have.

>> Yeah. >> Y'all can be out of debt here like completely consumer debt and then ask the hard question. Um you and your husband go on a on a one-day retreat and just say, "Hey, what do we want the next 5 to 10 years to look like? Do we need an $850,000 house or do we want to downsize?

>> Kids are about to go to college. Do you want to go ahead and sell now where we got a4 million dollars of equity in this thing and get a smaller place so that we can spend more intentional time together and not have a mortgage? Right?

Have that dreaming conversation and set that thing in motion.

>> Yeah.

>> Thank you.

>> And will you do me a huge favor for for your It's not doing me a favor at I was doing it for your kids.

Will you make a regular practice once every 6 months or so put on the calendar to write them a letter and if slowly

this Parkinson's takes your your your writing hand, speak it, record it. Write

your kids a letter. Tell them how proud of them you are. Write your husband a letter and read it to them. Don't let

anything go unsaid.

Just cherish the the moments you got.

you you're it was an honor to talk to you. You're a saint. We'll be right back.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by Jade Warshaw. This is the Ramsy Show. Let's go out to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and talk to Madison. What up, Madison?

>> Hey, thanks for answering my call. >> Of course. Thanks for calling. What's going on? >> All right. My question essentially is um do we save up for a new car or a new house? Our situation is we just moved cross country, me and my husband and our two kids under two years old. Um our both of our cars are old and about to croak and we're currently renting and I've never owned a house before. So we're trying to figure out what to do with our assets.

>> How much cash do you have saved?

>> Um we have about 16,000 of liquid cash.

like that's kind of like our emergency fund slash available spending money.

>> Well, wait a second now.

>> Wait a minute. Thank you. Uh it's it

can't be both. So, just real quick and then I want you know what? Why don't you go ahead and finish talking and then I'll come back to that.

>> Um my husband's the one who mainly manages my team. That's why I said that way. Um no, >> strike two. Madison, keep going. Keep going. >> I'm sorry. >> No, we're playing. Don't be sorry. We're playing with you. to be good. I know. Um

14,000 in a 401k. We've got 2500 in

stocks that my husband manages. Uh zero

debt. Uh two cars that we own outright.

And then my husband, he just took a new job. And the base salary is going to be 70,000 a year with bonuses.

>> Cool. >> That's kind of the financial situation we have right now. >> And you're home with littles?

>> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Hey, kudos on not having any debt. I think that's fabulous. How old are you guys?

>> I am 24 and he's 26.

>> Yes, absolutely. So, good. Zero debt.

Um, here's where I'm going to give you good news and bad news. Which one would you like first?

>> Um, well, good news and hit me with bad

news. Happy to. >> The good news is you're so far ahead of so many people your age because you don't have any debt. You have a fully funded emergency fund. uh you've got a little bit working in your 401k and oh

>> that's a fabulous fabulous fabulous place to be >> and you got two healthy little kids and a husband that likes you >> and a husband that's you know he's got his job cooking he he's starting to take off I >> you're winning >> yes so that's please plant that as a

very good seed in your brain uh because

the bad news is you're not really in a in a position to do either of the things that you >> that you said and you're not far off.

It's just I want to reframe that. So the let's talk about the emergency fund.

>> Uh the way we teach and the way that I experience it and what I do in my life and what John does in his life is we set aside money for an emergency fund. And that means we don't touch this money unless it is a flatout emergency, which means it has to meet a little bit of criteria to be uh discerned as an emergency. It has to be completely unexpected like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know this was going to happen. this came out the blue.

It needs to be urgent like, "Oh, I got to do this like immediately." And it has to be completely necessary. Like, I must do this thing. So, there here's what's going on in your mind. I must do this thing today that I had no clue was going to happen.

Like, that's how it goes. And so, obviously, buying a new car or a new house doesn't fall underneath uh that per those parameters.

could begin saving up money uh to do either of the things that you think is is more pertinent. Whether it's man, one of these cars is literally like on its last leg. Let's start saving up $10,000 or whatever amount of money you think you want to spend. Um no more than your

vehicle should be no more than uh half of his annual income. Um but you could

start to do that, but I wouldn't be in a huge rush to buy a house. No, no, no, no. And and Madison, how old are your

kids?

>> Um, they're both under two. So, one's like a year and a half, one is three months old. >> Wild West. >> You've probably already experienced this, but if you haven't, um, as a

father of two kids sitting next to a woman who's also got her own two kids, I can guarantee you they will use this emergency fund.

>> They will break things. They will set things on fire. They will destroy like all of it, right? >> And so >> please, please, please give yourself, your nervous system, your home, your marriage, the safety that is having that

16 grand in the bank that we don't touch.

>> Okay? >> Just pretend like it's not there.

The second thing is I want you to give your nervous system, your spirit

the piece it needs and deserves by not

just outsourcing the finances to quote unquote the finance guy in the house.

You all need to do this thing together.

You need to know where the accounts are.

You need to know what bills are paying.

You all need to be on the same page with your vision for things.

The third thing is I

know I've been there. I wanted my wife

to have the nicest car possible when we had little ones.

The reality is y'all can't afford the nicest car. And that's okay. And so even if y'all save up the money, buy a 10 grand car or a 15 grand car, not a $45,000 car, because you're building

something together and a depreciating asset won't get you there.

Okay. Right. >> I'd say no more than 50 15,000 each.

Like if you have a car, yours is 15. If he has a car, his is 15. That totals 30.

That puts you at that parameter.

>> And can I ask you can I ask you a personal personal question?

>> Yeah, sure. >> I'm super okay being wrong. I'm wrong a lot. The folks on Reddit tell me that.

Um, but here's the thing. Um,

I'm finishing up a long multi-year project. And something that kept coming

up in my conversations with stay-at-home moms, especially young stay-at-home moms, was this this feeling of I need to do something.

I should be, it it's that phrase, I should be in a house. I should be driving a nicer car. I'm not providing any economic value to the house cuz I don't make a salary. So, I need to be fill in the blank. And it just was this sense of this builtup, pent up energy

that got spent looking for homes we couldn't afford, looking for houses we should probably buy, reading all these blogs telling me why I'm failing at this version of motherhood or that version of wifehood or whatever. Is that your situation at all?

>> No, I would I wouldn't say so. I grew up with a stay at home mom. My husband did.

We're not flashy people. We we drive, you know, older older cars. We just know that we've been so blessed and we're like hyper aware of the head start we were given and we want to make sure our kids have the same thing. So it's kind of like what can we do to like be good

stewards now so we can be as slow. The

tortoise wins >> every time. Every time you read that book, the tortoise wins.

>> And all your stuff you have. It's kind of like if there were like different containers that you needed to fill up, you've got a little bit in each container that's ready to grow and ready to keep going. Like you've got a little bit in your 401k, keep doing that. You know, uh keep putting 15%.

At this point, you're on baby step four, right? So, keep 15% of your husband's gross income every single month into that 401k.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And yeah, just keep working away at it. And once you've funded the cars that you think you need, then yeah, I would start and I would kind of go back to 3B and I which is saving for the down payment of your house. And if you want to do that at the same time as you're investing, you can.

Or if you want to unplug investing for 2 to 3 years, you could unplug your investing, that 15%, you could stop that and put that towards your house fund for a little while. >> And Jade, I don't know about you, but there's been times that my wife and I save up for a car >> and we get that chunk of money in there >> and we're both like, "Hey, the cars are fine. Let's put that on the house or let's put that on." Like, once you get that big pile of cash, it's hard just to go throw it in a car sometimes.

>> True.

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Let's go out to the ATL Atlanta, Georgia, and talk to Hannah. Where is

Hannah? Here. I'm trying to find her on the thing. Here it is. Oh, line two.

What's up, Hannah?

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Great. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You got it. What's going on?

>> Um, okay. So, I just need some guidance with the situation that I have found myself in. Um, my husband uh we've been

married 10 years next month and in January he very abruptly shut down his

small business permanently after about 3

years. Um, after he did that, I found

out a few days after he decided to do that, um, that he was in deep financial trouble with the business, somewhere between a h 100,000 to 250,000 is a rough guess that I have. And then found out yesterday that we are about $4,200

behind on our mortgage. We are about um with the business and all about $40,000 behind in taxes. Um, I got a notice that the water would be shut off today. And then yesterday, um, got a call that he

had about $7,000 owed in a credit card

that I didn't know about. And to I'm

sorry, my voice is shaking. I'm a little bit nervous. And >> I am home with our three children. He left two days ago to attend the police academy >> and it's completely inaccessible. Um,

until next week.

Wow. >> So, um, that shaking in your voice, that

terror inside your chest, that's it's right. Okay, hear me say this. You're not crazy.

Okay, we call this here um financial infidelity.

The the trust that was the foundation of your marriage has been turned to ash.

Okay. So, you feel like you're free fall and you are. All right. So, here hear us say that we're with you. Okay.

>> Okay. >> This is a scary scary situation.

>> I would also like to throw in here that um about a year and a half into our

marriage um a very similar circumstance

happened. Um very similar to what I'm saying and we worked through all of that and then about four years later it happened again. >> Oh no. >> And worked through it again. And

>> is it him starting?

>> It's him starting businesses and them failing or it's just some sort of

>> the first time.

>> Yeah, it's just like he had um two cars

with car loans that I didn't know about and then multiple credit cards I didn't know about and um a lot of purchases and

and money owed and just it's been a

pattern for our entire marriage. Does he shut you out of knowing about the finances or or is he just going is he

saying here's the account that we're spending money on and you know everything that's going on with that but then he goes to the side and just does obviously God knows what or are you pretty much like I'm out of everything?

Uh, now I'm pretty much out of everything because um he was using the

business account for all of our personal finances, which I'm not on any of.

>> And how did you have money to spend?

>> He would transfer money into our personal checking account, which I had a debit card for. >> Oh jeez. >> Oh boy. And what? Just a little bit a month for you to do what you needed to do.

anytime that I needed to purchase

anything, um the picture was painted

that we had a ton of money and so if I

wanted to go for a shopping day or book a trip or anything at all, it was not a big deal at all. >> He would just slide it over to you.

Okay. >> Um here's what I want you to do today. I I have a a feeling in my guts that this

is not the bottom of of the mess,

that there's more out there, >> unfortunately. >> Okay. Um I want you to

pull your credit report and if you are able to pull his, get his, too.

And at least get a picture. And if you can't pull his, I don't want you to commit fraud, but I want that to be the first thing. Um, when you all are able to communicate.

>> Um, okay. Cuz you're in a you've got three little ones. You need to focus on four walls ASAP >> cuz they're about to take your house. They're about to take your um shut your

water off. You're about to shut your electricity off, right? You're in you're in a five alarm fire right now.

>> Um, do you have access to any cash at all?

Um, before he left, he gave me about $500 in cash, >> but there's no money in a checking account or anything.

>> I think there's about $100 in our checking account. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Do you have Do you have family nearby?

>> Uh, yes, I do. I do. Sorry.

>> That's mom and dad or sisters and brothers? What is it?

>> Just my mom and dad. >> Okay. Um, here's what I'm thinking about. Um, and John, jump in at any point.

Um, you've been a stay-at-home mom. Have you Have you been in the workforce at all at any point?

>> Yes, I'm a registered nurse, but I just had to stay home with our children for a little while. >> Okay, fabulous. Cuz my brain goes to if you have to exit the situation, um, how

can you stay on your feet? How can you keep yourself afloat? Um because it sounds like there's going to be a lot of

>> um there if this comes to a point where it goes before a judge, all of this is going to come out and it's going to be a lot more there. >> Yeah. >> And I just want to make sure you're okay. And so for me, it's great that if you have family, community, friends around you that can help you for a season of time if you need it.

And I love that you have a career path if you have to go back to work and if kids gosh, end up having to go to daycare or something like that. Um, I feel confident after hearing what you said that you'd be able to make that transition. >> Yeah. >> Do you?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Um, I mean, you've got to write down and you might call the mortgage company and tell them what's going on that you're just getting notice of this and you're going to try to make it right and just let them know I'm I'm a terrified, scared stay-at-home mom. My husband's at the police academy and I'm just getting all these notices, >> right? >> Um, and I would write down and they'd be my first call since you're behind 4200 bucks.

I don't know if is that two months or three months? How far behind is that? >> I I think it's about two months plus fees. >> Okay.

I would call them and just let them know I hear you. I see this. I'm just getting this like y'all are.

need to come up with a plan here and they might give you an extension or a plan. I don't know the the the terms of your mortgage. I don't know your relationship with your mortgage company.

And then I would write down what's the what's the electric bill? How far behind are you? What's the water bill? Like these four walls we talk about. Do you have transportation? Do you have electricity? Do you've got water? Do you have a home? Do you have food? Right?

You and you're at that level. And it might be that um uh I I don't even think might be. I

think you're at a position now, this is scary enough that you need to call your family and say, "Hey, I gotta go start applying for nursing jobs this afternoon, but even then, you won't get a paycheck for another month at the earliest." Right? So, but it's like, I need to drop my kids off starting now.

>> And none of this is what you planned.

None of this is what you wanted. But this is you're a scared basically a scared single mom who's in a big big big mess because you were betrayed by your husband again and again and again. And so this is just choosing reality. We'll grieve later. We will be sad later.

We'll be mad and angry later. I got to go get some money right now.

>> And I would hate for you to run down to the credit union and see if you get another loan because and that's the last thing you'll need is yet another pile on. Right. >> Yeah. The good news is you you probably have the cash to keep the water on. You probably have, you know, some food in the house. Keep some groceries going.

Uh, my question, and I I'm not trying to get dramatic. You know for a fact that he went to police academy? Like he's coming back?

>> Yes. >> You have contact with him? Okay.

>> I'm trying to make sure he didn't didn't skip out. >> But I mean, that's going to be a $50,000 year job, right?

>> I I hope so. I think so.

>> I mean, not not while he's in academy.

It'll probably be much less than that until he gets out. But even even then, that's not going to cover this mess y'all are in.

>> No. >> Right. >> And I don't know the fullness kind of what you were saying about going before a judge and all of that, but um he has had um some police reports filed and

I've had people uh locate me on Facebook

to try and remedy some business things going on. So um someone suggested I get security cameras at my house. So, >> um it it might be time for you to um yeah to go stay with your family members and leave the house for a bit and not I'm going to ask you to do that. I want you to go stay with your family members, step out of this situation for a minute and I want you to call an attorney and they'll walk you through getting to the bottom of the mess.

So, sorry you're going through this.

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let's go out to Lexington, Kentucky, and

talk to Lisa. Hey, what's up, Lisa?

>> Hi. How are you all doing? Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You bet. Thanks for calling. What's going on? >> Yeah. So, how do my husband and I have

the conversation or should we try to have a second conversation with my father-in-law about the importance of getting life insurance? Um, just a little backstory, he's the sole income earner for their family. My mother-in-law has been a stay-at-home mom for the last 20 some odd years. And

my brother-in-law, who has some disabilities and is unable to work, lives with them as well. Um, my father-in-law, he's kind of the impression that, you know, you can always get it later. It's not important right now. Um, just doesn't have a good opinion on it.

And so, as me and my husband, we have life insurance. We see the value of it. Um, my mother-in-law, she was like, "Hey, tell me about life insurance. What should I be looking for?

What should I not be looking for?" And so, we're not just wanting to give unsolicited advice to them.

how do we have a a second conversation or how should we approach the subject?

>> Well, it sounds like there's two things going on. One is mom is say feeling exposed. I'm worried about dad. And then

dad is saying I don't really care if she feels exposed. I'm not doing this.

>> Yeah. They don't have any consumer debt.

they just have their mortgage. Um she said that they were looking they've been shopping um for for life insurance. They have a person that's looking for them and um they, you know, brought up the idea of mortgage insurance, but the value that they were >> being told and and that he's convinced about, you know, it's not even going to cover their mortgage.

>> Yeah. And the problem the problem with that is you still have a stay-at-home mom and a special needs son.

>> Exactly. They need Incorrect. >> Right. So, um, I'll tell you, this is

going to sound like an ad, but I was using Xander insurance for my term life insurance for my me and my wife for years before I even thought about coming over to Ramsay cuz I trust him. And then

when I got to Ramsay, Xander, who we endorse and who we've been talking about for years and years and years, but that's where I would go. And Xander tops, this is like a commercial. Ander, they shop all of the top companies and

or many of the top companies to find you the best price. They work for you, not for the insurance companies. And so they're going to bring you here's how much money you got. Here's how old you are. Here's how expensive it's going to be. Here's the price. And depending on his age and all that, it's going to factor into it. But that's where not where I would go. That's where I did go.

>> I I would bring your husband into this.

>> Yeah. his conversation to have >> he's fully >> Yeah, he's fully in it.

>> And they're looking at going to work on Monday, >> right? >> I mean, it it's a horrowing experience sitting with a widow >> who realizes, "Oh, we got nothing." This kind of like I'm I'm going to be honest with you, this kind of ego in older men pisses me off at a at a way I I can't even comprehend because they're going to bleep me because the show's on the radio. I get so mad at this kind of arrogance and ego and dismissiveness of

your wife, your special need kids. Like, it makes me infuriated. But here's the deal. Y'all can't do anything about it.

>> Yeah. And I I'm just curious cuz, you know, if Ken were here, he would say to

just ask questions instead of instead of saying you need to do this, you need to do that. A couple of wellplaced and well thought through questions that you just let hang in the air. when you say, "Okay, yeah, >> if the worst happens, Dad, and you know,

on the way home, you get in an accident.

>> How is mom >> going to pay the mortgage? How are, you

know, I don't know what the brother-in-law's name, how how are we going to take care of little Bobby? How are we going to I'm just wondering what your plan for that is, or have you considered what your plan for that is, >> right? Maybe come up with one or two questions that that your son can ask at

the right time with dad. It's not in the middle of a heated argument. It's not, you know, when they're already talking about one thing and now he brings this up too. It's they go to breakfast, they go out, just the two of them and at the

right time he says, you know, we've had a lot of questions. We've had a lot of conversations about this. I'm just wondering, you know, um, and he asks the two questions and just let it sits there. Sit there. >> And his dad might look at at at him and say, "She's going to be your problem."

>> Right. That may happen. >> Yeah. And then to which he can say, "No, that's not an option.

You're going to have to come up with something." But I mean, >> yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, we like we me and my husband, we're both firstborn kids.

Like my um my mom currently lives with us. Um you know, so we've we've kind of taken that on ourselves. We're both very financially stable. Um so like we've we've kind of prepared ourselves for that.

You know, if we do have to take care of of my husband's mom as well, like >> we would be able to, but again, you know, like >> we want them to take care of themselves.

>> Well, and here's the deal. It's it's just um it's choosing reality.

>> Yeah. >> Right. We It should be. And he's looking at y'all and saying looking at his wife and saying, "Nope, I'm not going to." >> Um which again, I I just cannot wrap my head around that kind of ignorance and ego. But it is what it is. So, we're going to choose reality and >> um we're going to start making that play. And I think you've got a a tiny

crack in the door in that mom asked for it. >> So I'm going to give mom >> Xander contact for term life insurance.

Do not do not do not buy some nonsensical whole life policy. And >> no, I've been listening to you all long enough. >> Yeah, you know it. You know the deal.

>> Yeah, we're going to send send it on to them and we're going to go from there.

>> Let me tell you something, John. I I I'm I'm getting frustrated because I feel like the number the the top two calls that we've been getting lately and and it it and I'm not I'm not picking on men. I'm just telling you what I'm getting. The top two calls are a wife

who calls in and her husband is either locking her out of the money, doing something shady with the money. She's kind of been, you know, removed little by little from the situation and now like all hell is breaking loose. or it's

families who the parents cannot get

their act together. >> Yeah. >> And they're leaving and burdening their their children with things that they

should be taking care of themselves as adult grown people with grown jobs in grown houses. >> And I'm just like, what is going on?

>> Yeah. >> Get your life together. Get your act together.

>> What's going on? Like that's my question for for the heads of families here is what are y'all doing? You need to get yourself together. >> I I can't wrap my head around

I I mean I can't I'm going to sound like a broken record. I can't get my head around the arrogance and the dis I I mean I can

>> your daughter-in-law should not have to call into a national YouTube and radio show saying he doesn't care enough about

his own wife to take out coverage that's going to cost him I don't know 300 bucks a quarter. My father-in-law has such deep-seated arrogance that when his son came to him, he blew up and threw a third grade temper tantrum because he couldn't handle a hard conversation with his son. >> Well, that's the through line is arrogance. It's arrogance on both both of those spectrums.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And as we as the call kept going on and on and on, um, she brought up issues of personal safety and maybe she needs to get security cameras. I want everyone listening to know off air we obviously circle back and providing her with some resources and um we'll do our due

diligence when it comes to paying for financial coaching for her and things like that but also with contacting local police and authorities because a a woman with three young kids does not need to be worrying about should I go get security cameras because the mess that

my awful terrible husband has left me in has now jeopardized our safety. So, just know listeners, we're taking care of folks behind closed doors, too. We're not just going to leave people hanging. Um, fathers, husbands,

take care of your families.

That's how low the bar is. We'll be right back.

Welcome back, Jade. My blood pressure is still up. >> Listen, mine is, too. But, you know, at the end of the last segment, we kind of went in on like dad's men needing to step up. But let me also say for the ones that do because that it's such a

blessing. And we were talking over the break. I was telling him about something that Sam, my husband, did that is like just showing up just doing the best you can. And if you do have I'm I'm I'm I'm totally taking this from you.

If you do have a man in your life that is a real man, like doing the best he can, leading for the family financially, you know, doing all the transparent, please tell him. Please go home today and be like, "Thank you. Thank you for being the opposite of what sometimes calls into the Ramsay Show.

We need leaders like that. We're grateful for you. Keep doing what you do. >> And I'll just say for my brothers out there, the bar is so low. Show up.

Like just show up. Show up. When she calls and says, "Hey, what's the I got you. I got it." >> Yeah. I got it. >> And it it's just Yeah. >> Put your ego aside, man. And by the way, when you set your ego down, life is so

much more fun. That's so much more fun.

>> Yes. To just let somebody see who you really are. >> Yes.

That's all I'll say. All right, let's roll out to Atlanta. Let's go back to Atlanta and talk to Chelsea. What's up, Chelsea?

>> Hello. Thank you for having me on.

>> Thanks for calling. What's going on?

>> Um, yes. I'll go ahead and just back you up and say that we are in a positive marriage, a very great marriage. And >> Chelsea, what's his name? >> I have a financial experience.

>> Good. >> What's his name? >> Forest. >> Shout out Forest. Shout out.

>> This is what I'm talking about. >> Shout out good men on this show. All right. So, what's going on? How can we help? >> Yeah. So, we've been working through the baby steps. We've paid off all of our debt. We um have our emergency fund

created. We jumped ahead and already have 529s going for our two children and

we have a third on the way. Um,

thank you. But, um, yes, so we're on baby step four technically with the, um,

investments trying to save 15%.

And I guess I'll ask the question and then kind of explain, but my overall question is, does it ever make sense to work on baby step number six in the mortgage um before completing the 15%

for investments? >> Oh, you're talking my language. Go ahead. >> Why? Why is that? Tell me the reason behind it.

>> So, it makes sense in my head, but um >> it always does. My um I am a stay-at-home mom, but I also do freelance marketing. So, I'm bringing in about 2500 a month. And then my husband makes about 125,000 a year with

his company. He has a 401k um 4% match

that he participates in. He also has an

ESP company stock program. Um, so he

puts 10% away to that every um or every

month or every paycheck, but then every six months um he gets a 15% discount for

the company stock if you were to sell it. >> How quickly does that? Sorry.

>> How quickly does that vest?

>> Um I'm not sure. Okay. So, uh I'm not

sure if I understand that question.

Sometimes with stock option purchases,

when you're when you're able to buy stock from the company, you have to sit on it for 24 months before you can turn around and sell it. Sometimes you can buy it and then sell it the next day.

Usually, if you're buying at a discount, they don't let you do that, though.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, it's every six months.

So, he participates in it. Every paycheck, takes 10%. M >> and then it's every July 1st and every um January 1st you can sell it um for a

15% discount.

>> Okay. So here's >> and that does have capital gains tax if if this is maybe answering your question. >> Well I don't care about that. How much is in that account right now?

>> Um right now there's about 15,000 I

think. >> Okay. So here's >> generally this has been our house project fund as how you know we had to get new sight and we had a new deck.

>> Okay, >> things that would help us not go into debt if we use this. But now our house was at a good place. So we're thinking it's either investment or putting it to the house. Well, I think you've just got to I think you've got to recalibrate on your investing because you've got 10%

going towards a single stock, a single company stock, which is not what we would suggest. I I hear you on the 4% uh

401k. So, you're investing 4% there.

Your company's matching it. I would not

put the other 10% in the company stock.

I would put the other 10% in the 401k.

Even if it's a very good well-known

>> Yes. Even if it is because >> I don't know if I should drop it. >> No, don't drop the name. But a good investment is diversified.

>> Yeah. And I'll tell you right now, I just I just had this with uh a close

personal friend of mine >> got a stock option windfall of 225

a year ago. And I said, it was a single

stock and it was this whole you could move it over here. and and I said, "Hey, cash it out now. Sell it." And they said, "Are you crazy? We're making these investments and this is a global company." That person just recently called, we were talking on the phone and said, "Bro, that stock is at 160 now. Should have listened to you." >> And so it it it it it doesn't matter

how good they're telling you, it's good.

We're doing this and we're stable. When you're sitting on a single stock, >> there's no checks and balances. >> Yeah. It's just up or down. And I I have a personal lived experience. My mom worked at this tiny little company called Enron, which I think was the fourth biggest company on the planet.

>> And it went away over a weekend, right?

And so I am big on if you get one single

company stock and they give you a deal to buy it on it, great. And the moment you can vest it, cash it out and either put it in retirement or use it to pay down your house or whatever. But get out of that stock because just holding it and holding it a single stock with all that money, man, you are playing roulette. >> Yeah. If I could if I could recalibrate this today, I would make it to where you're investing the 10% along with the

other 4% into the company 401k. And you

know, if you max that out, then you can move over to a Roth IRA. You can do one, he can do one. And then if there's a little bit of money left or if there's, you know, something that he's required to do, that's fine. Um, but I would change that lickety split because you don't want all of your money tied up in this. And if you're if you're saying, "Well, we're still investing in the 401k." You're only investing 4%. And our rule here is if there's a match, it's a

fantastic thing, but we really just consider that gravy. Like, we really want you working the muscle of 15% because what if he switches jobs and there is not a 4% match, right? Or what if something changes with your, you know, your situation. So, we always want you kind of in the driver's seat of what you're doing with your money.

And yeah, consider that 4% like gravy on top of a biscuit is what Dave Ramsey would say. H >> how much um do you have left on your mortgage? >> So, we have $252,000 left on the mortgage.

say we put $100 a month. I know it's not much, but $100 a month to his personal IRA as well. >> Okay. Um, and then overall investments, we probably have over about 200,000 in all of our investments right now.

>> Are you putting that in a traditional IRA or a Roth IRA?

>> A Roth. Correct.

>> 200. Does that include the stock in the the stock you have on the side?

>> The 15,000. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. You know, >> um, if I were you, whatever company stock you do have, I'm I'm with John. I would, you know, cash that out. Maybe that goes towards your mortgage >> or that goes in your Roths and you can max them both out this year and call it like >> I I because here's what it sounds like you're doing. It sounds like you're putting in 4% of your own money into a a retirement vehicle >> and then you're taking what you know approximately the the rest of the 15%

and you're just putting it into a stock and you are using that stock as as like kind of like a glorified emergency fundish to deal with house stuff,

>> right? Which we're done with them and we want to do well with it. So even if even

if we didn't do the ESP at this point though, I think maybe my question might still like stand if I can ask that too.

>> The original one about paying off the mortgage first.

>> Yes. Just because thinking about even if we did the 10% just to regular either 401k or the Roth IRA, we would still

need about $400 a month from our budget

somewhere in order to hit the 15%.

>> That's right. And I don't know where we would exactly get it right now. Like there would be pennies and whatnot >> here. Yeah, definitely. And and you might have to pinch pennies. So, one thing about the baby steps is just because you've paid off your debt and now you're starting to invest, it doesn't mean that you're all of a sudden rolling in a bunch of extra money cuz you're now investing 15%. Um, so you're

going to have to get to your budget and take a look at this because what I don't want is for you to say, "Uh, it feels

better to do to pay off the mortgage instead." And before you know it, you look up and you've neglected your investing. The mortgage is going to get paid off. You're going to find little bits of money here and there. I'm sure he makes bonuses that you can pay this off.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm John Deloney joined by the world famous Jade Warshaw taking your calls on your money, your life, your relationships, everything. 88 8255225.

Let's go out to Fort Worth, Texas, and talk to Allison. Hey Alison, what's going on? >> Hi Dr. John. Hey Jade. How are you guys?

>> We're doing awesome. What's up?

Well, um I've found the Ramsey um

information somewhat recently. So, although we're in a pretty good spot financially, I really appreciate that it's prompted me to kind of look at our whole financial picture and realize that we need to go back and readjust some things or fill in some gaps. So, thank you for all that you do with that.

>> Very cool. Welcome to the cult. Welcome.

>> And um I realize I have a question about 529s that I haven't heard you guys address before. >> Okay. Um, we have opened up a 529

account for each of our kids when they were young and we've been very blessed

that each set of grandparents wants to help us save for the kids college. Um, one set of grandparents will make contributions directly to the 529s that we have opened and the other set of grandparents um has opened their own account for each

child. >> Nice. Okay. Nice. >> And I'm unsure of um is there any kind

of logistical >> I'm going to set you free.

>> Are you ready? >> When Sure. >> I'm going to set you free.

It's their money.

>> Uhhuh. >> And they're choosing to do it that way.

>> And so I would open my hands to it and I

would get with my spouse and plan as though that money won't be there.

>> Okay. and because it fighting them over it like get like >> it just is that way and for whatever reason that's why how they've chosen to do it with their money and I would just say great cool >> I don't think it's a bad thing >> no it's not but it's just how they're doing it and trying to talk to them about it or or discuss it about it just is what that is I don't know though Jade I don't know the logistics of can can a grandparent open a 529 for a kid and a parent open a 529 for a kid and both of those accounts be used to pay for the same kid?

I don't know the answer to that question.

mother-in-law opened it because it was a get it was something she was gifting uh before Sam and I well before we were out of debt and then so she technically was

the owner on the account and then she set up me and my husband as like

>> we would be owner in succession like if she died or something we'd become the owner but we all have access. we can all add money into the account and then the kids are set up as the beneficiary. So,

>> that's just kind of the way it's been.

And I I don't know if we transferred it at some point into our name, but I think it's still in her name and it doesn't matter because it's she's not using it.

She's, you know, 63 years old.

>> And Allison, I got to tell you, I'm super biased. I worked at universities for like 20 years. And so the number of

students I met with and parents I met with who had a grandparent holding a

checkbook saying my kids my grandkids going to study X Y or Z and they're not going to be in this program and they're going to go to this school. Man, I was just like, dude, if anyone wants to tell like try to play puppeteer over my life with their checkbook, I'm out.

>> And so I take my bias for what it is,

right? If if they hold this account,

just assume it's their money and they're going to want to steward it how they best see fit. And that might be turning it over to the parents and saying wherever Junior wants to go to college, that's awesome. Or whatever junior wants trade school or whatever wants to study, great. But they might use it as no, no, my grandkids going to this school. If they want my money and you can say cool, we've already made other arrangements. So I my answer has a big bias to it.

>> Um but that just is what it is. which that would be I mean if they did that listen we've heard all sorts of calls on this radio so anything's possible but if they did it would be such a waste because then it's like well they're not going to that school so now what you going to do but you know the good news is you can have multiple 529s that fund a single student like that's fine it's no problem if you've got one over here one over there and one over there um >> do you sense that that's what they're trying to do or are they just like hey it's a financial thing we want to do our thing over here we don't want to mingle I get that.

that. I think I was more a potential concern like I don't know the logistics

around I saw somewhere when when this one's opened which was you know maybe close to 10 years ago. So, I don't know if laws have changed since then, but that um if a child received money from

an account other than the parents directly that it would it counted as income for them and it could somehow,

you know, either affect taxes or financial aid or something like that.

So, are you aware of anything along those lines? >> I I'm not I've not heard that. Um Okay.

That sounds too vague for me to form a clear opinion on it. I would just double check whatever your question like form a a clear question around that. Um I mean if the money is used for education expenses there shouldn't be there shouldn't be an issue. Now what you said about financial aid um I'm not sure what

you're trying to like >> I wouldn't play that game at all anyway. Yeah. >> I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish there. So >> okay got it. The goal would be pay cash,

use the 529s, use them up, and be

grateful to whoever's contributed.

>> Yeah. Once wants to put some money in on on your kids cash and and and let's say there is a tax liability at some point down the road, it's still going to be far less than tuition was, right?

>> There shouldn't be. If they're using it for education expenses, now if they're just pulling it out, I mean, if you're pulling it out, you're going to be on a 10% penalty for sure, and that's going to be income taxed. But hey, um Allison,

can we just tell you welcome to the gang.

>> Thank you. Yeah, it's uh listen to you guys all the time. Um strolling the baby

around the neighborhood and doing chores in the house. So, I I've really appreciated all your advice.

>> Awesome. Well, thank you so so much for calling. Really grateful. Um hot take.

>> I was gonna say hot take is I probably should dial back some of my biases. I I just have um so many experiences that

taint my taint my rosy picture of the world sometimes. >> Well, I was going to ask your hot take on on 529s. What do you think about when

you are with friends and it's like a giftgiving situation like a birthday or Christmas and they're like just give to my kids 529 plan and they're like sending you a link. I I I well good or bad >> I had a buddy the I mean one of my closest friends on the world in the world the guy who's the executive of my will he he opened an account when Hank was born and said >> I'm I at the time and this was right he's like I don't super trust you so I am starting an account for your kid and every year on his birthday I'm going to add money to it and when he goes to goes to school I'll pass along.

>> Yeah. And >> I mean like it's it's Hank's birthday

and >> Oh, and I'm going to send out a link >> and you send out a link that's like >> I'm probably not doing that. >> Donate to my kids 529. Is it tacky or hacky? >> What do you think?

>> I think it's tacky. >> I go with a big capital T. >> I think it's tacky. >> Yeah, >> I know someone who's done it.

>> Let's let's let's give their name and address on the air. >> I may have hosted with them.

Oh, I can tell you. Just

>> listen. >> Does his dog have a wheelchair? >> You got to do what you got to do. You got to do what you got to do. That's all I'm going to say. >> No, I'm going full tacky on that one.

And he knows who he is. We'll be right back.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

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>> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Jared in Wyoming. He says, "I realize that money is a personal topic and it can be volatile, but when I hear my co-workers brag about credit card points, it makes my head spin. How do you recommend discussing financial issues in casual social settings? Should

I engage in conversation and try to be helpful or just keep to myself?

Um, I'm going to tell you a story

about what I don't do

and I learned it because I was around someone who did do it. Um, so I'm I'm

mostly a plant-based eater. I don't eat meat. Uh, I occasionally I'll do some dairy, but I once knew somebody who was

so heavy-handed with every situation. If if she was in a situation when other people were eating meat, it was like, I can't believe you're eating meat. Like, this is the wor like, how could you, right? And it's just such an off-putting like it was giving all of us a bad name.

I was like, hey, you need to stop that. It's making all of us look bad. because nobody likes to be beat over the head with something that they possibly don't agree with and they didn't even ask your opinion anyway and they don't really care what you do and they they like doing what they're doing, right?

mean, John, you know me. I don't really talk about I most of my friends are uh

carnivores and that makes them happy and I'm fine with it and I don't really mention it and I cuz I don't care and they don't care and we eat together and we eat together in peace and one day if John is like, "Hey, I noticed you never eat meat. Uh, tell me about that." Then I'm happy to tell him about it and I'm literally just sharing it from my perspective. >> So, I'm on the other side of this. Tell me >> in 2012 there was rumblings in the nerd community, >> right?

ketogenic diets. >> Got you. Okay. Okay. Okay.

>> So, this is before they became mainstream and everything was keto, >> right? >> I went down rabbit holes. I met with everybody I could. I talked to folks over at the med school, but >> I became the most annoying human who's

ever lived. every I mean someone could ask me a question about higher red finance and I'd figure out a way to turn it back into you need to be eating a ketogen I was the I was unbearable

>> were you >> I mean I was the worst and I'm bad now I

was so bad then and so um and a I was

wrong on a huge chunk of what I was preaching about >> and I was unbearable I was so annoying to be around and so I from that and a

couple other things I've just adopted a policy which is I try I I I I fail

sometimes but most of the time I try to answer questions if you ask. >> Yeah. >> And so when it comes to people talking about how I do my money and look how much I make I just smile. And by the way

to everybody who thinks Dave is out lecturing his friends.

>> Dave's friends lease cars. Dave's friends have credit cards. You don't hear him preaching about it. They know what he thinks about it and he's their friend and they're his friend. And so, um, and I joke about this. My oldest best friend on the planet is a banker.

>> Yes. >> And here's what that means. That means every day he goes to work hoping I fail in my job on the Ramsay show. And every day I go on the air hoping to put him out of business. And he's my best friend

on the planet. And so we have we disagree about this thing. And he loves my family and I love his family and I love him. He loves me. And dude, I'll go to war for that guy and vice versa. We disagree about this and we don't have to preach and fight and argue about it, right? And all that. >> And I I'll go out on an even further limb because in culture, and I I know

I'm opening a can of worms here. We can we can tend to vilify the folks who aren't on our same >> any stratosphere. Like we don't have the same opinions. >> You don't vote like me. You don't this. And you got the shot and you didn't get the shot. Like >> Yes. So, >> it's madness. >> Sometimes we can think, "Oh, if they're not doing it our way, they're wrong." >> Yeah. Or they're or worse, they're evil.

>> Or or they're bad. >> And the thing is, here's the thing. There's plenty of people out there, John, and they I know a few. They have

their credit card. They pay it off every month. Do I agree with that? No. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't teach it. I wouldn't. Right. But they do it and they're fine. They're not bad. They're not broke. They're not They're They're doing fine. Now, plenty of them are broke, >> right? Like, let's do that. Right. But

you got to just let people live their life. They're grown. You don't have to insert yourself. You don't have to There's a lot of ways to do life out there. And people are people are doing just fine. And if they're struggling, that's usually when they you can sense that and and that you know, you can ask God to or what whatever you do to open up that opportunity to kind of share a little bit. But other than that,

and I'm not saying that Jared is doing that. I'm really going out on a limb here. But just don't go out looking for

>> a fight. That's it. Yes. Like >> looking to defend yourself. Just >> the toughest guys I know, the guys who fought professionally are the guys who will walk away and grab their wife's

hand or grab their kids' hand and get in their car and go home because they got nothing to prove. Right. >> Right. They don't have to throw a punch.

>> I don't have anything to prove to you. Right. And so I So Jared, great great

question and we've all dealt with this.

Um, I would smile and let them just talk. And if they ask you what what's your opinion, >> I don't mess with credit cards. >> I don't play with credit cards. I don't want single moms who are struggling with overdraft bills to pay for my free flights. So, I don't deal with uh >> See, now you already went deeply fast.

>> You went deep really fast. >> I I'll say it and it usually shuts up a conversation, but like I if you ask, I'll tell you, but dude, I I want us to have a good time tonight. So, run your mouth and we can move on with our days.

>> Agree. Agree. I love it.

>> All right, let's uh roll out to Htown and talk to Dean. Dean, I'm up against the clock, so get right to your question, brother.

>> Hey. Hey. Hey. How y'all doing?

>> We're doing good, man. >> Uh kind of a little nervous. I'm going through a lot. Um I have $144,000

worth of debt. Uh just myself. Uh >> me and my wife recently got married a year ago. Um, she has about $12,000

worth of debt in student loans and $1,200 worth of debt in credit cards.

>> Um, I recently just wanted to start getting my life together. I recently me and her recently got saved and um, I really felt a calling to really get my my finances in order. And so, um, I went ahead and paid off my car and paid off of my um, my credit card. And so, I

still have that $144,000 worth of debt.

Um, I'm having trouble getting my wife on board with me with this uh living debtree. Um, she's not on board with it.

So, I'm kind of doing doing this all by myself. Uh, we agreed to have a wedding.

Um, and we recently last night just found out that she is pregnant.

>> All right. >> And so now, um, we have about $14,000

worth saved, uh, towards the wedding that we have probably agreed that we're not going to do the wedding anymore, at least for right now. Um, and so I'm my question is um what do I do with my

finances? Like what position do you guys feel like that I am in my finances? And then also um how do I get across to her uh to be on board with me with this being debtree thing? >> So let let me be clear. So if you guys don't do the party like you don't do the wedding party, I still think you should get married. >> Go to the courthouse and get married. >> Yeah. I think that's just going to solidify. >> I'm already married in the courthouse. >> You're already fabulous. Okay. Um, you

know, I love that you are interested in in getting yourself together. You've had you had a transformative moment, right?

You you had a moment, God shined down.

You're like, I'm doing this thing and ready, set, go.

>> Sometimes when you have a moment like that that's just a catalyst and you're just ready to go, you're assuming that the person next to you should just jump right into your level of excitement and it's not always like that. And sometimes it's multiple conversations of you sharing your heart and sharing your fears for them to even be like, "Okay, I

I may not share your passion, but I'll go along with you on this ride until maybe one day I do." >> That's me and my wife, Dean. As a Texas male, it's hard to sit down in front of your wife and say, "Hey, my past actions have led me to a point where I'm scared about our future." >> Yeah. >> Would you join me in this?

>> Yeah. >> You get what I'm saying? >> Hey, uh, hang on the line. You you asked us a couple of big questions and I want to make sure we answer this thing all the way. I'm going to hold you over the break. We usually don't do that, but I'm going to hold you over the break, so hang on the line, and we will come back to you um right after this commercial break.

All

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Start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. All right. Right before the last break, I took a call from Dean in Htown in Houston. And Dean

um is just realized he's got a ton of

debt. Recent recently married, got a new baby. He just found out last night he's pregnant. Him and his wife are pregnant.

And he is trying to get his wife on board. He wants to get his financial house in order. And so we held him over.

We're going to walk him through how to clean this mess up and get his feet underneath him. Dean, you there?

>> Yep. >> All right, man. Thanks for hanging over the break with us. All right, we're going to walk you through the plan here on out. Um, one question I got for you.

What's this 140k? You said you got rid of your credit cards, you paid them off, you paid off your car. What's this 140?

>> Uh, it's all student loan debt.

>> All student is is federal to 90. I have

99 in uh states.

>> Wow. Okay. Uh, what do you do for a living, brother?

>> I do real estate now. I went to school for business, but I I recently got a job in real estate two years ago, and yeah, so I do real estate now. >> What's your annual income?

Uh last year I made 65,000. This year uh

God has blessed me so much. I've already made 40,000 in the last three months.

And if I stay on this pace, I'll be at like 125 to 150 if I can just continue on how I'm doing now. >> Outstanding, dude. That means you're getting your feet under you in that in a in a wonky business, man.

Congratulations, dude. >> Yeah. >> What about your wife? What's she earn every month or yearly?

>> Uh yeah, she makes 40,000. She's a dental assistant, so she makes about 40,000. Okay, so there's a couple things

uh linked in here. Let's talk about

let's first talk about debt aside and paying off debt aside. How does she feel about combining your finances together and just saying, "Hey, we have one account. Both of our paychecks go into it. You know, we're we have transparency. We make financial decisions together." Like that whole bag. How does she feel about that?

>> Uh she actually wants that. I've been the one that's hesitant to do that. why

>> um with our marriage uh just because um I've we just don't think about finances the same way. Um you know, for instance, we recently had a conversation about the fact that she has a lease and with me, she's leasing a car >> with me kind of finding more out about finances and she she was just like, I'm not giving up my lease. I like to have a new car every 3 years. But let's take that let's let's take financial philosophy off the table for just a second and just the idea of combining

>> to become one and we're just going to do this thing together to have full transparency would aside from cuz it's

going to take some time for you guys to have similar values and you're never going to think the same. You're just going to have similar values.

>> So if you just say hey I married this woman I'm in it now.

>> Could you be on board with let's have transparency. Let's share. Let's do this thing together. And we're not talking about debt and plans yet. We're just combining our money. Would you be okay with that?

>> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. Let me put it this way. You've already combined DNA to make a human.

>> The least you can do is is to combine your checking account, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like you're already in it now.

>> Yeah. Cuz we do have a joint account where we do bills, but we haven't done the whole thing. So, there you go. I think that's your first step cuz I we teach baby steps around here and we have seven financial baby steps but there's just I think for you there's even some smaller layers that we can get to that is just going to help you inch towards where you want to go.

So I think tonight that's the first conversation you have is it's not about paying off debt. It's not about accomplishing goals. It's just hey you know we we're married. We're about to have a baby together.

Let's do this money thing together. I want I want us to jump in with both feet. I know we don't see eye to eye on certain things yet. That'll come later.

But I just want to know that you and I are together on this. >> We're one.

>> Yes. Yes.

>> It all goes on the budget. >> You're all working together on the same team. >> Mhm. Cuz that's the first thing. You can't convince somebody to do what you want to do if you haven't fully committed. >> If you won't do it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> So the first step is we're committing that we are sharing our money and let it marinate for a minute. Like let it breathe. you don't have to, you know, have this conversation tonight and then by Sunday you're already talking about paying off the debt, right? Get the money together, let it breathe for a moment, and then while you're while you're continuing to learn, cuz you're you're you're new to this, too.

Then we can start having conversations about, okay, now that we see what our budget looks like, here's some of the things that I'm noticing with our budget. I've got a lot of debt and it is like eating up the majority of our margin.

you've got a lease. I've noticed that's, you know, that's something that I'm taking note of. Right? And you can start to say things that you're just noticing.

And you can start to share things about how you're feeling.

>> And again, let this unroll. It's okay that this takes a little bit of time. I don't think, John, I've ever had a financial conversation with Sam where we have opposing views or differing views.

That happens in one conversation.

>> Never. Yeah. Never. >> It doesn't happen. So take that out of your expectation because not only is this is not only is this a delicate conversation, but you're newly wed, >> right? >> And you just both found out you're having a baby, right? Like all this you're a new you're a new person of faith. Like all this is new, right? So So >> use think of this word in your head, practice. You've never done any of this stuff before. You're going to practice.

Just like if you never shot a free throw before, you're going to get up there and look silly for the first few times and you're going to keep shooting and shooting and you're going to get better and better at it. That's what we're doing here. We're practicing. We're practicing this conversation.

We're practicing >> like combining our lives together. We're practicing combining our money together. We're practicing, hey, how much do we need for groceries this month? We're practicing all these things.

>> And you have two in my and John, you jump in at any time. In my mind, you have two frameworks of conversation only.

I I've just been thinking about the future. Wouldn't it be cool if? And so you're just painting you're painting cool visions of the future that you see.

Man, I just I I can't keep thinking about like wouldn't it I just keep thinking about what it would feel if I didn't have debt and if we didn't have debt. And I was actually thinking about that and that would feel amazing. Right.

So all you're sharing is your feelings and your and your vision. Nothing that she has to do, nothing that she has to change. It's just you talking about you.

>> Bring it back to your childhood. I grew up in a house where we were all my my old man was always stressed about money.

>> And I have a dream for our kid to never know that kind of stress.

>> Yeah. >> If our kid makes the basketball team, I want to be able to get him the best shoes and not even think about it.

>> Yes. >> Right. And so what you're doing is you're painting a picture. You're not lecturing with numbers. You get You get the You get what we're saying?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's very true for me too in my past.

>> It was for most of us. and and you you

um inviting her out for a half-day dreaming retreat on, hey, we're having a baby. Both of us come from this background and she comes from that background. What do what do we envision us wanting our house to feel like when

our daughter or our son comes home and they're 12? What do you want the house to feel like?

>> Right? >> And we get to we get to construct that.

We get to build that up. Right? And often, not always, but often, a dude, I care less about my car. I want my house to feel like that one day.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And and so again, it sounds

counterintuitive to put the money aside for a second, but let's dream and get a a a crystal clear picture of what our vision for our life wants to look like and feel like, and then it's just a matter of reverse engineering it, and let's just build that thing out. >> Yeah. And Dean, I'm going to send you a copy of my book, What No One Tells You About Money, because it does a good job of, >> you know, when you're dealing with a framework like The Baby Steps. It shows how some people feel versus how other people feel.

And I think it'll really help you get an insight as to the way she might be feeling and it'll help you pinpoint how you might be feeling. And I think that's just really going to be good for you. Now, obviously, when it comes to the debt, when the time comes, when she's ready, when you're ready, yeah, I'm going to recommend the baby steps all the way. and we're gonna make sure you're set up with Every Dollar.

That's our wedding gift to you. We'll make sure you have Every Dollar. We'll make sure you have my book. We'll also give you uh Dave's book, The Total Money Makeover.

We're just going to load you up because I want you learning and learning and learning. And I want what I want is that every time she looks at you, you've got a piece of our material in your hand or in your face.

>> I'm going to make sure that you guys are doing well. I'm going to make sure we're successful." >> We got you, man. And hey, if it comes down to it, just tell her two goofballs on the radio gave you um a year of the best budgeting app on the planet, Every Dollar. And invite her to use it with you cuz it was free.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke, and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go

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Today's scripture is Proverbs 16:24.

Gracious words are a honeycomb, sweet to the soul and healing to the bones.

Elizabeth Elliot says, "Lord, deliver me from the urge to open my mouth when I should shut it." >> Oh, man. I need to get that tattooed on my forearm. >> I know. That's right. >> That's a good one right there. Let's go out to Grand Rapids, Michigan, and talk to Emma. Hey, Emma. What's going on?

>> Hi. How are you? >> We're doing great. How are you?

>> I'm pretty good. I have a question. My husband and I are on our debt snowball.

So, we're on baby step two and my husband has um irregular work. So, he is

a a flat rate motorcycle mechanic. So,

most of his money is made um March,

well, more like April through September.

Um and then we take a big pay cut. So, we looked at what the minimum is to live

during the winter, and we kind of estimated that we need about $700 a month during the busy season to put into a scing fund so that we would be good for the winter. But, um, I was we were

looking at the minimums. If we pay off what we think we're going to pay off in debt by September, then we wouldn't need

any additional money because all of those minimums would be gone. >> That's great. >> So, yeah. So, we're wondering, do we just make the sinking fund and then if October comes and we don't need it, we

just throw that to debt or do we hold it just in case through the winter since there's no way to like make really extra money for him? Why is there no I believe

that there is a way that either of you can make $700 extra a month.

>> Yeah. Teach me about flat rate motorcycle mechanic. What does that mean? I never heard that term. >> So So it's a it's a form of commission

and in so essentially like if you are

billing you know let's say it's the the

customer has build 10 hours for a job.

If you can do the job in 5 hours, you still get paid 10 hours, >> okay, >> worth of work. So, you can essentially do 90 hours of work in a 40-hour work

week. >> Okay. >> Um, but there is there are no motorcycles being ridden really in Michigan in the winter. >> Okay. Gotcha. So, it's kind of like yall are farmers.

>> Yeah. So, it's not like you can just magically make extra motorcycles come in. Still has to be there.

>> Could he go work at a a mechanic shop

working on cars.

>> No, they're not. They're not the same.

And he has to be at the motorcycle shop, >> right? But I'm thinking, okay, you're saying that $700 is the deficit monthly.

Um I I just believe in the winter,

right? And I'm thinking of I don't know, teachers or or pastors or people who kind of it's like this is my main job, but I also need a side gig. Um I $700 is

not a a scary number to go out and make

for a month. And so I'm wondering and rather than you guys having to be like squirrels and it being at a detriment to your baby step too, I just feel like you've got time between now and September to say let's pinpoint um work

that we do in the winter months um on top of what's already there for us to pull in $700. And I just think that that's a great practice anyway. You're talking 2,800 bucks, right? Is it four?

I guess the Michigan winner is 9 months long, right? How long How long are you talking? >> It's about It's about 6 months.

>> Okay. So, you need you need 3,600 bucks, right? >> Yeah. Yep. >> Or 4,200 bucks. >> And what do you do?

>> Me? >> Yeah. >> Uh ministry work. >> Okay. So, I I got to believe >> I have two side hustles already.

>> Okay.

>> I tapped out and we have four kids.

>> Okay. So, that's kind of what's making me think that there's more to this because side hustles are there to for

like sprints. >> I wouldn't want this to be something that's um I want you guys to be able to lock in and have this money without having to >> Does that make sense? I don't want to be a detriment to your baby step, too.

>> If you're a farmer, you work all year and you get paid in one or two big chunks, right?

>> Mhm. And so you have to budget those two big chunks as though and spread it out over the year.

>> And so I I'm with Jade like I I would love to see y'all be able to say, "Okay, we need $4,200 extra dollars over the course of a year." Yes. >> Can we scratch and claw and figure that out? If you're telling us no, there's 0% chance. We're are we're scratching and clawing to get to we only need $4,200 left, >> then yeah, very tight. It's a matter of budgeting 700 bucks in the good months and putting it into a syncing fund of $4,200 and we're going to withdraw from it for six months.

>> But we wouldn't need that if we do pay off the stuff we were planning on paying off. We just wouldn't be putting anything toward the snowball in those months. That that's kind of why I'm saying what I'm saying, which is why delay your snowball payoff if you can commit to by September we're going to be

debtree, but we also know that we might

not have enough money. So during that next sprint, we can come up with ways to make an extra if we need it. Does that make sense? >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Because >> I hadn't thought about that. If you continue to aggressively do your snowball, you're not setting aside the $700, by September, you're debtree, right? >> No, we would just have I we're looking at 24 months before we're >> So then for two years for two years, you have to fill the $700 gap, >> right?

>> Well, no, we would just So, if we were to take off, we have six things we're thinking we're going to have paid off by September.

again if you pay off those few and you get those minimums back great but if you can

keep your foot on the gas and you can say hey let's pick up whatever work we can until this this all of the debt is completely gone that's I mean I would tell anybody to do that >> okay >> and And once the 2 years is over, all the debt is gone. Everything, then you can do what John said, which is yes, now we take our lump sum of money and we spread it evenly over the 12 months and we're good to go.

>> Yeah, because we're just still trying to figure out the budgeting and so the the concern is there's no way to like for him to to build the extra money. So,

that's the concern is that it's kind of an unknown charted territory.

>> Mhm. Now, I do feel like for irregular incomes, I'm thinking of people like realtors uh where it's just like, yeah, I don't know monthtomonth. It's great to It's always good to be to have a month's worth of expenses just sitting in your account. So, essentially, you're always a month ahead.

In your case, that might benefit you guys. you might feel a lot better to just always have that money there because if you don't know necessarily what's coming in monthtomonth then that's a great practice to have, right?

volatile, you know, kind of irregular person. It's like if I don't know that I'm going to make my whole month, I want to know that the month is there. And I I would do that, but beyond that, I would

make sure my goal would be to not have to touch that money if that were the case. >> Okay. Yeah, we we are lucky because we do know a minimum of what he's going to make. So, we have that figured out. Um he makes a bare minimum just for being there. >> And is that enough to cover?

>> It's it's not that's why it's $700 short, but that's it. We don't have these payments. But if we pay the two cars off, that's 900 right there. That's gone. >> Done. >> Okay. So tell me about a good month.

What happens? You know, obviously there's What's a good month look like?

How much over does he go? Yeah.

>> Over what he regulate like what the winter months are.

>> Um sometimes about $8,000.

>> Oh.

So I feel like I feel like there's way

more money on the table here.

>> Yes. So, you're telling me on the months where he goes like crazily over that doesn't give you the $3,600 that you need? >> It does, but we've been putting it toward the debt right now. >> But I mean, and then some.

>> And then some. Yes. So, we've been putting it toward debt. So, that's why we all of it's going toward debt minus that 700 right now.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, I my advice doesn't change, but I think there's more money here than meets the eye.

>> Yeah. How long How long do you pay these cars off? Uh, well, we just paid one off today.

>> Congratulations. >> Thank you. And then the next one will be paid off in two weeks. >> That's exciting. >> Oh, what? Emma, why are you calling us?

>> Because I'm not sure if because it says the irregular income thing. So, I got kind of hung up on that. >> Well, you don't have an irregular income. You have a regular income.

>> Okay. It's just it fluctuates significantly, >> but the the gross total is the same annually.

>> Yes. >> Like you you don't get paid every two weeks or every month, but you get paid a few times a year. >> We It gets paid every other every other week, but it can range by $30,000 a

year, >> but you you know that range based on the time of month, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Well, that's it for the Ramsay Show, Jade.

>> Yes. Thanks for letting me sit in your shadow today.

>> Remember, there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 166. The All-New EveryDollar: Where Margin Meets Momentum


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:27 |

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music] Good morning, sweetheart.

>> Got to get going.

And she also like Julian back. She gives

her back to back. First back up when you were playing.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome to Ramsay headquarters, everybody. Everybody, we are so excited that you're here. If you want to build real wealth as fast as possible, you're exactly where you need to be right now.

I'm Rachel Cruz, joined by my two Ramsay Show co-hosts, George Camel and Jade Warshaw. And we cannot wait to tell you about the allnew Every Dollar app.

>> It's here, Jade. >> So excited. >> It's like Christmas morning and we get to be Santa delivering the good gifts.

>> I know. That's right. Listen, as soon as I heard about the results that users are seeing with this new version of Every Dollar, man, I got fired up. Guys, this is going to revolutionize the way that you take control with your money and help you build wealth faster than ever.

>> Yep. And it doesn't get much faster than finding $3,015 of margin in just 15 minutes to put toward your money goals. But that's exactly what's happening for the average Every Dollar user. And guys, that's just the first month. These users are finding tens of thousands of dollars in margin in their first year. And just to make sure we're all on the same page, when we say margin, we're talking about that extra money above and beyond your essential expenses that gives you breathing room and helps you get ahead.

>> And you guys, we know from taking your calls on the Ramsey Show every day just how much of a difference that number could make. We know that some of you are really anxious about living paycheck to paycheck. Some of you feel guilty that you haven't saved enough for the future.

And some of you feel like you just can't get ahead, no matter how many sacrifices you make. >> Chances are you've got more margin than you think in the proverbial couch cushions of your life. And the allnew Every Dollar will help you find it.

>> Yeah. We'll show you how quick and easy the process is in just a few minutes.

But first, we've got to talk about how most Americans got to the point of not having breathing room when it comes to their money. Because if you don't understand that, any margin you do find has a pretty good chance of disappearing all over again.

Living without money margin sucks. It's

stressful. It's frustrating. It's a brutal way to live. So, how did we get

here?

>> Well, for decades, we've been sold the same message over and over again. Spend,

spend, spend some more. You deserve it.

>> Yes, everybody's buying more and more.

>> There's a product for every problem and a payment plan for every product. That's the American way.

>> You need to eat better, sleep better, drive better, look better, live better, you're only a purchase away.

And while marketers convinced us to spend, financial companies made spending easier than ever before.

Credit cards, personal loans, buy now pay later. Tap your phone, poof, the money's gone. The problem is, no one

told you what happens if you try to live that way. So, what does happen? Well, if

you're like most people, you graduate from school and get your first job. But wait, those student loans you took out, well, apparently the lenders want that money back. And that car you bought, well, the new car smell is gone, but the payments stuck around. Throw in the credit card damage, and all of a sudden, things feel really tight.

But it's fine, right? You're just getting started. Once you're making more money, it'll all work out. A few years go by and you are making more money, which means more breathing room. Problem solved, right? Nope.

You bought the house, took the trip, financed the kids braces, and those student loans still there. Credit cards,

can't get rid of those. You should be able to live comfortably on what you make. But things somehow feel tighter than ever. Hopefully that makes you mad.

Like really mad.

But a lot of us have gotten mad about the wrong things. Remember the uproar about $9 eggs? Sure, inflation is very

real and nobody should be paying $9 for eggs, but that's not really what's holding you back. Your problem is your paycheck's already spent before you even see it. And living off the scraps, it's

exhausting. So here's the harsh truth.

It's not all your fault, but it is your responsibility. If nothing changes, then stress, anxiety, and paycheck to paycheck living is not just today's problem. It's your future.

But you don't have to stay stuck. You can break the paycheck to paycheck cycle. You can create real margin.

You can afford the things you want the right way. But to get new results, you

need a new plan. Are you ready?

[Music]

Building wealth doesn't happen on accident. You need a plan. If you're not intentional with your money, you'll always be wondering where your money went, feeling like you can't get ahead.

But with the right plan, you can make real progress towards your money goals faster than you ever thought possible.

And that's exactly what the Ramsay plan has helped millions of people do for more than 30 years. The Ramsay plan has

a 100% success rate. If you do it, you

will build wealth. This isn't hype or theory. The plan works every time. And

here at Ramsay Solutions headquarters, we meet couples every single day who are

doing this plan. And people that have paid off all of their debt, you guys, they're no one special. They've just done it. It's single moms. It's couples with young kids. It's an elderly couple from Atlanta that paid off their house.

I mean, you meet everyone from every walk of life. The only common thread is

that they do it. And the next success story can be yours. The Ramsay Plan

shows you how to do it all, from beating debt to building wealth and everything in between. But once you know the plan, you've got to work the plan. And there's no better way to do that than with the all-new Every Dollar app. Every Dollar

helps you find margin that you need to make real progress towards your money goals. But every dollar doesn't just stop there. It shows you how to use that margin so you can build wealth and you can start to feel in control of your money. And when you are in control of your money, you guys, you sleep at night.

You have peace. You have clarity to make decisions about your life and your money.

are already seeing big wins. You guys, in the last year alone, Every Dollar users turned more than $2 billion dollar of margin into debt paid and dollars saved. And that's not a guess. Those are real results from people just like you who are using Every Dollar to work the Ramsay plan faster than ever. The plan

works and the new Every Dollar is here

and you're the next success story. So take control of your money and your future starting today.

Millions of people have made a financial comeback by following the Ramsay plan, including yours truly. Back in 2013, I had $40,000 in consumer debt between my student loans and my credit card debt.

And my plan wasn't cutting it. And once I found the Ramsey plan, I got out of that debt in 18 months. And get this, over a 10-year period, I went from broke with a negative net worth to millionaire just by following the plan. Nothing fancy. And Jade, your story is really similar, except you had a few more zeros on the end. >> That's right. Just a few more. $460,000 of debt. I know it's breathtaking, but

we were able to work through it. It took us seven and a half years to pay off all that debt. And we did it working the Ramsay plan, proven plan. But I'm telling you, if we had had something like this, brand new Every Dollar, it would have changed things.

We would have done it in half the time. >> I love it. And I love your stories because what's great is you both started in different places, but you still achieved your financial goals, which you were wanting, which is just absolutely amazing.

future. That is why we are so excited that the allnew Every Dollar is here and

it has everything that you need to work the Ramsay plan faster than ever before.

Yeah, I'm really excited about it because inside the app there's so much that's fresh and new. And our team actually went all out because their only goal was to help you build wealth fast.

And if you've used Every Dollar before and you're going, "Yeah, George, I know.

I know what every dollar is." No, it's completely different now. This is a budget with an opinion that wants to see you win. So, take that Excel spreadsheet with your formulas that I always find an error with. Why is it always an error with the formulas? >> It always happens. >> I don't like cells at all. >> Now, listen. For starters, the new Every Dollar will instantly give you personalized recommendations for how to create margin. And like we said earlier, the average new user finds more than $3,000 of margin in just 15 minutes to

apply to their first budget. And what I think is even better is that this app is going to show you the best thing to do with that margin based on our proven plan because the Ramsay plan is literally built into the app. So you don't have to wonder if you're taking the right next step. Every Dollar will tell you that you are.

>> Exactly. So there's no more second guessing yourself all the time. The allnew Every Dollar is going to let you know based on your goals what you need to do today. >> And whatever that next step is, you'll have your budget right there in the same app, one tap away.

It's still part of the app and it's better than ever. It's not going away.

>> Yeah. And my favorite part is that the allnew Every Dollar includes personalized coaching based on your money situation. >> Yeah, guys, this is a big deal. The personalized coaching is what will help you work faster and smarter, not harder.

And like I said before, I wish my husband Sam and I had something like this when we were getting serious about changing our money habits. >> Well, instead of just talking about it, let's be about it. Why don't we take these people on a quick test drive and show them the new Every Dollar in action.

All right, guys. By now, you can see the allnew Every Dollar is way more than just a budgeting app. Now, it's time to show you how that process works. For starters, Every Dollar is now hyperpersonalized because one-sizefits-all money advice isn't great. And if you've listened to the Ramsay Show, you know our common sense principles never change. But how those principles apply might look a little different depending on your situation.

It's kind of like the difference between me wearing my dad's suit jacket versus having one tailored to me. You want it to feel like it was made for you. And that's why finding margin with every dollar starts with some simple onboarding questions to completely customize your experience in the app.

You'll see questions about your top money priorities, your income, your family situation. Every dollar will even ask you how many minutes you want to spend each day learning how to hit your money goals faster. Only got five minutes. We can work with that. Now, this is important. It's not a quiz.

There's no right or wrong answers. You don't need to know your exact numbers to the decimal point. Your answers, just make sure Every Dollar's advice fits your life, not someone else's. So, just give it your best shot.

It'll take you less than 15 minutes. And trust me, it's worth every second. Here's why. The better Every Dollar knows you, the more opportunities it can find to maximize your margin.

And that's what this is all about. Reminder, margin is that extra money above and beyond your essential expenses that gives you breathing room and helps you get ahead.

But now, every dollar saves you the brain calories. It will analyze your situation and build you a custom list of recommendations for creating more margin. And get this, the average user finds eight recommendations. Then every dollar will show you exactly how much money you could free up if you try all the recommendations on your list.

And that money might come from one-time recommendations like selling something or ongoing monthly recommendations like adjusting your tax withholdings or cutting back on eating out. Every dollar will also show you how those recommendations translate to yearly margin. But like the name implies, all these margin finding ideas are just recommendations. You're the CFO here, so you get to decide what stays and what goes.

You could decide to do none of these and free up zero dollars, or you could decide to do all of them and free up way more. As you go through your recommendations one by one, it'll help you understand why they're a good fit for your money situation. If you like a recommendation, great. Tap the commit button.

If not, no big deal. Hit nope and on to the next. You also have the power to edit recommendations.

When you're finished deciding how much cash you want to free up, every dollar will calculate the margin you've officially found based on your commitments. So, the initial number you saw was the margin that every dollar found for you. But the new number based on your commitments is what you're actually saying yes to. And that's money you already have just waiting to be freed up.

All you have to do is keep those commitments you made, which we can all agree is kind of the hard part. But we thought of that, too. Every dollar will also keep you from falling off the wagon. For starters, the app will have a custom to-do list right there on your dashboard.

This list is unique to you based on the recommendations you committed to. And as you start checking off your list and creating margin, you can just tap over to your every dollar budget to make sure that money gets put to good use. You'll also be able to connect your bank account and seamlessly track transactions to keep that margin from disappearing ever again.

But that's all just the tip of the iceberg. We've shown you how Every Dollar helps you change your behaviors and figure out what to do, which is great because we know that personal finance is 80% behavior, but it's also 20% head knowledge. And if you're like most people, you didn't learn about all this money stuff growing up. Nobody taught you until now.

With every dollar, you'll get a personalized feed of bite-sized tidbits to help you master money and understand why you're doing what you're doing. The app will only serve you content that actually applies to your situation.

So, as you can see, every dollar is now way more than just a budgeting app. With margin finding recommendations, your personalized plan, and ongoing coaching, the app will help keep you on track and moving forward. And in our 30-year history, we've never seen results like these. Our users are hitting their money goals faster than ever before.

And what we found is that the coaching experience is what makes all the difference.

It's time to take the guesswork out of winning with money so you can stop wasting time and start building wealth.

Hey, you guys asked for this and we delivered. I'm so happy that the new Every Dollar is here to help you with personalized coaching so that you can finally stick to a proven plan for your money. It's the same plan my husband Sam and I used when we looked up and found ourselves in half a million dollars of debt. I mean, we started the plan with a lot of enthusiasm, but pretty quickly and we realized there was still a lot we didn't know.

Every day we had questions because the truth is there's actually a lot of nuance to working this Ramsay plan. It can be a lot to remember. I mean, sometimes we got so focused on one part of the plan that by the time we finished that step, we'd forgotten what we were supposed to do next. For instance, we knew we were supposed to do a zerobased budget, but that doesn't mean we're supposed to have zero dollars in the account, right?

Well, the allnew Every Dollar will give you the answer, which by the way is of course not. Or let's just say you finish paying off your debt and you know you need to be saving money next, but you don't know exactly how much you need in that emergency fund. Again, the new Every Dollar is going to tell you exactly what you need. I mean, even if you listen to the Ramsay show every single day, which by the way, Sam and I did, you still can't memorize every word.

So, because of that, we actually made a lot of mistakes. And honestly, we wasted a lot of time trying to figure things out as we went. Now, I'm proud to say that eventually we did pay off our debt completely and we transformed our money situation.

could have moved so much faster had we had someone coaching us through the plan. That is why I'm so excited that the new Every Dollar is here. This app, guys, is like having your own personal Ramsy coach in your pocket 247. The

allnew Every Dollar will show you exactly what to do based on your real numbers and your budget and your real goals. Just like George showed you a moment ago, this app gives you personalized recommendations for freeing margin right away. But this is about

more than just numbers. The allnew Every Dollar is going to help you create a completely new money mindset. You'll get

personalized coaching through quick and easy money lessons that build your confidence where you need it most. And as you start applying what you learn, the new Every Dollar will help you stay focused thanks to personalized texts and notifications. Now, don't worry. I already hear what you're thinking.

Opting in. It's not going to get you spammed, but it will keep you on track.

For example, let's say you forget to check your budget for a few days. The new Every Dollar will send you a gentle nudge to get back into the game. Okay, that is all incredible, but here's the thing that really sets the app apart.

With the allnew Every Dollar, you also get daily access to real human beings.

Okay, our Every Dollar team back there host a free group coaching call every weekday where you can get your questions answered live. Now, these group calls, they're perfect for those times when you need a little extra guidance, right? a little budgeting refresher, help with irregular income, or even how to get on the same page with your spouse. My husband, Sam, and I, we had none of this when we started out.

But we did have the Ramsay show, and I even called in a couple of times to ask questions. And when I got off of those calls, I had so much confidence about what my next step would be. And this app, guys, is going to give you that same feeling of hope and encouragement every single day without the hold music.

You've got places to go and wealth to build and the allnew Every Dollar is the fastest way to get there. We're already seeing incredible results from users across the country. So, let's take a look. [Music]

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

Heat.

[Music]

[Music]

Man, I love seeing Every Dollar users working the Ramsay plan the right way.

Did you notice them making their own pizza for dinner instead of eating out?

They're making margin and memories. We love to see it. Oh man, I love when people choose to eat at home just to save money. It's great. >> Yeah, exactly. You guys, these users are proof that the app actually works. And the allnew Every Dollar is helping people just like you break the cycle of paycheck to paycheck living and finally take control of their money. >> That's right. Reaching your money goals is possible. And every dollar makes getting there easier than ever.

Remember, the average new user finds more than $3,000 in margin in just 15 minutes to apply to their first budget.

And that's money you already have that needs to be put to work. And now Every Dollar gives you a clear plan for using that margin to get out of debt and start building wealth step by step. No guesswork. This app really is like having a Ramsey coach in your pocket keeping you focused and guiding you along the way.

>> Yeah, exactly. Guys, you don't have to do this alone. With the allnew Every Dollar, you'll have access to group coaching and one-on-one help and encouragement from real human beings who care about your success. Hey, the truth is every dollar is more than just an app.

Guys, this is the turning point in your money.

Go download Every Dollar right now and start that free 14-day trial. Hey, if you're already an Every Dollar user, just tap the Today icon inside the app to activate your new dashboard and take the next step. You've got nothing to lose but your stress and you've got everything to gain. Yeah. Seriously, you guys, do not wait on this. Go do it right now. >> Yeah. Quit saying, "One day I'm going to get out of debt. One day I'll start investing." This is day one. Get started now. We're cheering you on.

[Applause] [Music]

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## 167. The Annual Giving Show: A Celebration of Radical Generosity | December 19, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:53:24 |

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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broken. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. George Camel Ramsey [music] personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

The Bible says that God loves

a cheerful giver.

Generosity is possibly one of the most important financial principles that you can bring into your life.

When you give

steadily, regularly as a rhythm of your

life, it changes you. It changes the

attitude of your heart, the positioning

of your heart. And you move along the spectrum from selfish to selfless.

Someone that has been giving for a long

time and giving a lot for a long time is

some of the most selfless, generous people we call them. And and they're the ones that hold the door for you at the grocery store.

They're the ones that help you pick up the cans of soup that are rolling around in the parking lot because the cheap plastic bag broke.

Generous people are generous people

>> and they're more attractive. We all want to hang out with those kinds of people. >> They do. And and you know, and they tend to prosper for that reason because they're more attractive. I mean, if you think about it, who would you rather do business with? Let's say you're person that fixes your car. someone that has a heart of generosity and the car in the bay next to you is a 32 year old lady

who's lost her husband in the military and he's donating the repair on her car

and she's sitting in the lobby with you telling you that this guy's taking care of her. Would you rather to have your car fixed there or the guy who is going

to squeeze every dime out of everybody?

And we know the difference when you don't even have to know the difference to know the difference. How many of you have met with someone or you just had a conversation with someone and you finish the conversation, you go, I think I need a shower. Just feel gross after. This is a taker. This is not a giver. This is a

parasite. This is not someone that adds value. A and gosh, don't we all want to

be that? And we're inspired by it. And we teach people to live like no one else so that later they can live and >> give >> like no one else. And so this is our annual favorite show for George and me to get to do. We do it as one of our last broadcasts of the year. Every year we're heading up into Christmas where we celebrate God giving his only begotten son for our sins.

And those of us that are Christians, that's what we believe and that's what we know to be true. And he gave his only

begotten son. God is a giver and we're

made in his image. And so in our very spiritual DNA, we are designed to be givers. And when you're not giving, you're not functioning in your design.

When you start giving, you're more passionate. You're more creative.

Opportunities come your way because you're more attractive. Uh you your marriage is better.

>> You're more empathetic.

>> You're a better dad and a better mom when you give rather than take all the time. I mean, the the term that everybody throws around that's the opposite of giver is narcissist. and every you know it's way overused that everybody that is accused >> label anything you don't like anyone >> any anybody I don't anytime you don't like somebody now you have to call them a narcissist that's like a rule now on social media but they're not you're just you just got your little feelings hurt but the uh but still that that is you

know that's the opposite and said very selfentered self-oriented so today we're going to take calls and emails and stories

throughout the entire show all about giving so if you given something and you have a story that will inspire the rest of us to be better givers, bigger givers, more often givers because we're all in agreement right now that giving is the best thing you can do with money. It's the most fun you'll ever have with money. The most fun I've ever had with money is when we did a gift in person and you make someone cry >> cuz it blows their freaking mind. That's

the That's the most fun you'll ever have. And so, yeah, I'm known for making people cry, but not for that. So, but >> you're gonna cry in a good way today.

>> The good Dave is here. And >> if you make Dave cry, I guess we'll give you >> is here. So, oh, I cried an Applebee's commercial. What are you talking about, man? I cry all the time. But the uh um So, no, the we need to hear from you. We

want to hear your giving stories or your receiving stories. Inspire us to generosity today. The phone number is88255225.

Uh try to get it. I'm going to do it. All right. Uh Parido is with us. Hey, Parido. What's up?

>> Merry Christmas, Dave. What an honor.

>> It's an honor to be with you. Tell us your giving story.

>> Sure. So, a few years back, I was actually the recipient of outrageous gener generosity, and it's really changed my life. So, I was a single mom

without two nickels to rub together. And a lot of times by the end of the month, we were really struggling to get food on the table. A friend told me about a food

plant pantry that was out of a local church. So, I went to get some food. In line, I had to fill out a form with income information to confirm eligibility. When a church volunteer reviewed the details with me, he revealed that my income was actually above the threshold to where they could offer me assistance. So, I was literally

making too much to be that broke.

>> Wow. >> The really beautiful thing is he took the time to actually like talk about it with me. He asked me why I was coming for assistance when my income was so high. And I explained to him that my mortgage payment was about half of my income.

He did say that I could wait around to see if there's any extra food at the end or what they could scrge up for me kind of around the church, but I refused. And with tears in my eyes, I told him that I didn't want to take food away from the people who need it more than I do. That I was fine because I had a bag of oranges in the car, a half a bag of oranges that I was going to take back to the grocery store to get us through the rest of the month.

Uh he paused and he said that he'd like to help me out and asked me to drive around and meet him in the parking lot. So I did as he was getting something out of his car. When I parked, he came over to my window and shoved four crisp $50 bills in my hands and I just lost it.

cried and prayed together. With this gesture, he actually doubled my grocery budget for the entire month. And you know, Dave, it was really the catalyst that I needed for my life. I re-evaluated my finances and my living situation. And over the next two years, I got out of debt and doubled my income.

And to this day, I just remember Mike was his name. And just his outrageous generosity and the Holy Spirit flowing through him as he offered me help without any hesitation or judgment.

>> Wow. Wow, >> that's powerful.

>> It really is. >> And you can't help but look for opportunities to do that now that you're on your feet, right?

>> No, absolutely. I'm glad you said that because every year I like to pay forward his generosity and I'll go and tip some hardworking waitress $200 on Christmas.

Uh all in 50s. You know, there's something about a $50 bill.

>> Amen. >> Yeah. >> Amen. And there's something more about four of them. [laughter] >> Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

That's powerful. Thank you for sharing that. That's good. That's exactly what we need today. >> I already got the grin on my face. I think it's going to stick there for a while. >> It's going to be stuck there. God's spirit moving through Mike and said, "Well, the can't go by the rules. I'm not going to violate the rules, but I am going to go make sure that this single mom gets something more than a bag of oranges." >> Yeah. >> Do for one what you wish you could do for many. Scale the unscalable.

>> I love it. Very well done. Well played,

Mike, wherever you are.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits. >> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

[music]

It's our annual giving show. You know, no one stops and talks about it very much, but on a given year, for instance,

the year 2025, Americans are by far, no one's even

close, per capita, and in total, the

most generous nation on the planet.

Now, it's kind of in vogue to be hating on America if you're in Europe and you think you're cool or whatever bull crap that is. But the truth is we're way more generous than you.

That's the truth. That's the actual data. Last year, Americans gave over $600 billion dollars to charities and

ministries all over the world. From

Hungry Kids to St. hospitals to

anything you can think of where someone's hurting and someone needs some help. American dollars from Americans pockets, not government programs, individuals privately giving, give more

annually than the entire gross domestic product of a lot of countries.

That's what we produce here.

That's interesting if you think about it because we are based on a Judeo-Christian ethic whether you all like it or not. And um that's the truth.

And you know part of the Judeo-Christian

ethic, the Jewish religion, the Christian religion is built into both of those is a steady flow of generosity,

a steady flow of caring for widows and orphans, a steady flow of having a heart for the broken.

And uh it's pretty amazing what we do and no one really talks about it. Uh but it's still there even in spite of we might not even agree on why it's there but it's still there and the generosity is still flowing. >> Wow. And is that is was that one year?

>> That's one year. >> Wow. That's pretty impressive.

>> Yeah. That's >> even per person. >> It's according to the experts at Google but yeah >> we trust them. >> Yeah. Sort of. The intelligence is artificial so be careful. But you know, but you know, it is it is. And here's the other thing. There's a lot that's what's recorded. And so if it's 600

billion recorded, then we know it's a trillion. >> If you gave me $10,000 right now, they have no way to track it. I think we should test that theory. >> Doesn't show up.

Yeah. It's only the if you have a 501c3, you you file what's called a 990 with the IRS. You file a a tax return saying what you have received from others, and that would be one of the places you'd gather this information. But an individual helping another individual or people doing things in cash, no one ever knows that.

Uh that only comes under the lens of God's spirit. He sees it, but no one else does. No one else knows it happened.

John is in Canada. John, tell us your

giving story.

>> You bet. Thanks for having me. >> Sure. >> Um I uh was on the receiving end. Um, so

brief summary, I did something very dumb and invested in in something which turned out to be a very elaborate, very welldone investment

scam. And I always thought people who

fell for these things were were kind of silly, but I was the silly one in this case. So ultimately, all told, we lost

uh A MILLION DOLLARS. >> WHOA. IN THAT >> YEAH. And that's Canadian, so it's like 40 grand American. So [laughter] yeah,

>> anyway, >> that's funny. >> But John's got it. It was a big problem.

Um, so we we had to sell our home.

>> Um, which was was a big big issue. We

had about $700,000 of equity in our home, but we still owed about 300,000.

So we had to move to a rental. And u I

thought I would die in that home and be buried in the backyard. That's what I had hoped for. And um, >> it's gone. >> That was not to be. >> Wow. One day my aunt comes over and

she's she's a single lady, godly woman.

I never knew how what her financial state was cuz she's not advertising it

and whatever, but I think she saved her money through her life. Uh anyway, super conservative. Um and uh she she shows

her love by g like acts of service. So, she was like, "I want to come over bring a meal for you guys cuz we have young twin boys that we had adopted through this process or at the beginning of the protest." And uh at dinner one day, she just says, "Hey, um how bad are things

like financially? I know I know something's happened. That's why you sold your home, but like how bad is it?" And I and I told her and I said like I don't know how I'm going to get through Thursday and it's Tuesday because we I borrowed and there was these massive business loans that were $15,000 a month

was the payment on them and uh that was going to happen for about six more months. So she said, "Well, I want to help." And I said, "Really?" Like I was not expecting this at all. Never received anything. Um and uh and she said, "Yep. How many months do you think you need?" And I'm like, I don't know, maybe three would be amazing, right? And and she said, okay, I'm going to write you a check for $5,000 for three months.

Every month, five grand. And uh she

ended up changing that to four months.

So she ended up giving us a total of $20,000. This was at the absolute lowest

point where I was very, very seriously considering bankruptcy. And uh from her

generosity and the grace of God, we were able to just scrape and claw our way day by day through this mess. And uh yeah,

anyway, now we're in a much better place and we're we will be debtree sometime in

the next six or seven months. >> Way to go. >> And uh she >> was huge. She was unbelievable. Just a

silent, generous, kind-hearted lady.

never judged what was, you know.

>> Yeah. You had enough shame without anybody shaming you, right?

>> Correct. >> That's where I was. I remember that. I looked in the mirror and I saw stupid tattooed on my forehead. Yeah. You don't need You don't need anybody to pile on to that, right? And she just wrote you a check and smiled and brought a casserole. Yeah. I mean, my gosh.

>> Yeah. And she's done that like many times. like keeps bringing over food, keeps doing things and and she's shown up for every one of my daughter's volleyball games and like she's just she's just there. She's just a presence and uh and her name is Louise and she

would hate me saying that cuz she's very much like keep it quiet, but um anyway,

whatever. >> Everybody needs to be more like Louise.

That's the moral of the story, John.

Good qu good good story. Thank you for sharing that. >> Love that. Yeah, it's a good reminder that a lot of times that generosity is invisible and it's from the the people who are the quietest. They're not it's not the loud, showy people.

Yeah, they generally have nothing. That's why they're loud and showy. But yeah, that's how it works. [laughter]

Zoe's in Omaha, Nebraska. Merry Christmas, Zoe. Tell us your giving story. >> Merry Christmas. Huge fan. Been listening to you since I was 16.

>> Wow. Thank you.

>> Um, >> how's 17 treating you?

Uh, I'm 27 now actually. But, [laughter]

>> um, no, my story. I was 19 and I had a

job way out of my league, but I tried it and I got it. And part of my job was um

to interact with the elderly people. And

um for Christmas, I picked people who didn't have family around um in my company bought bought hats, mittens,

puzzles for those people who didn't have family around to celebrate Christmas with. Moral of the story, I was dropping off one of my gifts to one of my um people. And it was actually a younger person um probably 60s. They had kids at

home. I walked into their home. I could see daylight through their house. Um,

and the pair of gloves and hat and um,

other gift that I gave them I knew wasn't enough. So, I felt and they were so grateful just for that. But, I felt called to go and get them more. So, I

went and spent my own money um around

$500 um on snow pants and snow boots and

warm stuff and some Christmas toys for the kids and toothbrushes and stuff like that. Um while I was at the store, I ran into two people who um I told what I was

doing. They also gave me $100 each. So,

that was like $700 I got um of stuff for them. I brought it

back to them. We all had tears in our eyes. Um, >> you were you were 19 years old.

>> I was 19 and $500 was a lot of money for

me. >> That's a lot of money. Yeah.

>> Um, but I just felt like it was right.

And the feeling that I felt giving it to them, I think felt better than how they

felt. But it felt so amazing and it's

like something I will cherish forever.

>> Amen. Well done, Zoe. Proud of you. Wow.

that the impact that has on the giver just as powerful if not more than on the receiver. >> Changes you changes you permanently.

[music]

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>> [bell]

[bell]

>> If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just our budgeting app. Now, the plan is built right in. You track your progress.

You get personalized recommendations, coaching for your situation, help you free up more money, work the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every day, showing you the next right step, and holding you accountable. Start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or at Google Play. It's our annual giving show, Crystals in Arizona. I keep a stash of $20 bills in my wallet just for

restaurant birthday emergencies. The second I hear the happy birthday song, I'm already across the room handing the bewildered birthday person a $20 bill and announcing it's a family tradition.

They don't know if I'm generous, unhinged, or both, but the act has created an incredible amount of surprising joy. >> I love that. You know, why not be both?

>> Why not? >> Unhinged generosity is a fun category.

>> No, this stranger just had to be at 20 just cuz somebody sung happy birthday and then you found out they were singing happy birthday just to get the free cake and it wasn't really their birthday. But anyway, yeah. and free $5 bill along with [laughter] not a bad deal.

>> I love it. Angela is in Witchah, Kansas.

Hey, Angela. Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas, Dave.

>> What's up?

>> Not too much. I'm blessed and want to

share a story with you of something crazy I did. >> Okay, do it.

>> So, when I was a kid in the 90s, my mom uh saw Mazda Miatas and she loved the

Mazda Miata. It's a little two-seater convertible. >> Yeah, I remember. She never would buy anything like that because it wasn't practical and they didn't have money for things like that. But when I was like seven, I promised her that I would buy her one someday. And so fast forward 20 years and a few years ago, I saw one for

sale and it had we had just finished

harvesting and so we had a little bit of extra money and I bought it for her with my husband and we uh left the for sale

tag in the window, but we changed the phone number. And so a few days later, we met up with my mom and we parked it in the parking lot down a few stalls from us. And when she pulled up, she saw that it was for sale and she said, "I might be able to buy that my Miata." And when she called, we told her, "It's yours, Mom." And so she was super excited cuz she had just heard the song, "How do miracles just happen like that on the radio?" And uh then she got her

dream car. So it was a >> I like the way you gave the gift as much as the gift. That's pretty funny.

>> So creative. >> Very creative. It's out of a movie. I mean, you had to know her well enough to know she would act on that, right?

Instead of just seeing the sign and going, "I'll never and never call." And and then you'd be screwed. You have to figure out some other way to do it. But you knew she'd call that number. That's great. >> Oh, yeah.

>> So, how old was she when she got it,

>> boy? Um, she's 74 now. Well, she'll be

74, so 72

probably. >> She's still driving it.

>> She is. She loves that car. I won't say how fast she goes in it, but that's kind of scary. [laughter] But she loves to drive that around. She still calls it GG for God's gift, and she um she remembers the day she got it and everything. She'll remember that anniversary every year, probably for the rest of her life. >> Wow, that's very great car nickname, too. >> Yeah, that's great. Well done, Angela.

Well played. That's how you do it. You know, the creative methodology. So, we did a video and I'm trying to think if it's u posted on YouTube on our massive

YouTube channel that has eight bazillion videos on it. But a friend of mine, we

probably did this video that our team did the video with him. Um friend of mine found his when he was a kid, his

dad sold a antique car that he had had

uh to a friend who collected cars because he needed money. His dad was a pastor and they didn't have the money to keep the car. So he got rid of the car, feed the kids, and 25 years later, that

guy that was the collector still had the car. And my friend went and bought it from him and gave it to his dad.

>> Wow. >> And you talk about eyes leaking everywhere. It was pretty cool. And the guy gave him a good deal because he figured out what he was doing. He didn't he didn't, you know, >> so he liked the fact that it was a generosity surprise. >> Yeah. So he made a made a better deal on it. and and you know, but he still and I'm trying to remember the trying to remember the model of the car, but it's like a 1930s 1940s vehicle and it had

been restored and everything and it was kind of a cool street rod type thing and they anyway this collector still had the car. He was in the same town that they all grew up in and he found him and found out he still had it and bought it and gave it back to his dad. It was a pretty cool video. That fits almost with the GG story right there with Angela.

Well done, Angela. That's well played.

Savannah's in Florida. Hey, Savannah.

Merry Christmas. What's your giving story? >> Merry Christmas, Dave and George. Thank you for having me. >> Sure.

>> My husband and I have been on Baby Steps 4 through six for several years, and we listen to your show every day. We've been inspired by your encouragement to be more generous, and we've heard your suggestions to provide necessities like groceries and gas and tires for the single mom. and we were completely sold on the idea, but we just weren't sure where to find these neighbors in need.

So, fast forward to summer of 2022 and we learn about a website called careportal.org.

And this is a national care sharing technology that connects a family in crisis with a local church through the professional support of an agency worker. The agency worker vets the needs

of the family and then enters the request on care portal for someone like me or any of your listeners to respond to. And the site allows you to filter by state and county so that you can keep your support local to your own community. >> Yeah. Cool.

And the the goal is to keep the biological family together and prevent the kids from entering foster care because there's a clear correlation between those kids and an increased risk for incarceration and homelessness and becoming a trafficking victim as an adult. >> Sure. Absolutely. >> So the personal story I wanted to share is that the very first request we responded to was for a 16-year-old girl whose mother had just died unexpectedly and her mom was her only parent.

So now on the worst day of her life, she has to move from Indiana down to Florida to live with her aunt. So she has no community around her in her time of immense grief and her aunt did not have the ability to provide a bed for her. So she's sleeping on a rented air mattress with a hole in it. And as God would have it, our son had just been born several months before and our guest room turned nursery had a full set of furniture with nowhere to go until now.

from a local church picked up the bed from my house and delivered it and assembled it for her. And this story really spoke to me because I lost my dad at that same age of 16. >> Oh, wow.

>> And I can just instantly take myself back to that first. >> Well, that's how you know this is a God assignment. This is not random.

>> No, not at all. >> This is straight up. Yeah, that's cool.

>> Yeah. Um, so I I remember, you know, the comfort that my bed provided me in in those sad times and I just pray that our gift did the same for this young lady.

And after that, we were hooked. So three and a half years later, we've responded to dozens of requests for all kinds of things. Diapers and wipes, sheets and pillows, car seats, groceries, and even washers and dryers.

>> Sound like you're having fun.

>> We are. You You are very right. It's the most fun we've ever had with money.

>> Yeah. Proud of you. That is very cool.

I'm proud of you. And it starts with a with a God assignment that lines up with your personal story. That's so >> That was fun. Let's do that again. Yeah.

>> And then it becomes a rhythm in your life and in your budget to go, "Hey, we're going to set money aside just to cover needs like this." >> Yeah. It does not get old either. It does not get old. Savannah, way to go.

Well done. Well done.

>> Thank you so much. >> So, how long ago was the bed deal? Three Three and a half years.

>> Three and a half years. Yeah. >> Okay. And so then you've just dozens and dozens of times since then. And you see the individual requests come through.

What was the name of that port? What's the name of that portal again? I don't know anything about it, but we'll put it out there again.

>> carePortal.org.

>> Okay, cool. Absolutely. Can't argue with that. That's good stuff. >> It looks like a real dialedin kind of gofundme because sometimes you're like, I don't know if this is real. I don't know the people behind this and this seems like they've done all the vetting for you to provide, hey, there's an exact need here that we know is legit.

Do you want to help? That's >> I'm not really mad about it, but I don't put any money in >> GoFundMe. Not mad about >> unless it's someone I know, you know, and they >> If I know them, I'm just going to give them the money. >> Yeah. >> I don't run it through GoFundMe.

>> That helps, too. Avoid all the fees.

>> Yeah. If I know what's going on, then I really know what's going on. I don't need GoFundMe.

So, but yeah. Anyway, uh that's a cool service, though. >> Way to go, Savannah. >> Yeah. >> Way to go. I love it. >> I like that it's it becomes almost addictive. You go, where's the next time? >> I'll tell you who uses GoFundMe well is Jimmy Darts. >> Oh, yeah. >> He does a great job of using GoFundMe.

He does a great job. If you want to see some generosity stuff, look that guy up.

Really cool. >> That'll make your eyes like

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Ramsay. Not in all states. And today we're switching it up with a giving story from van in Nebraska. Says, "I drive for Door Dash as a side hustle and some deliveries require us to collect the cash in person. Recently, I had a pizza order I delivered to a subsidized apartment complex to a single mom. When she opened the door to the apartment, she had six young kids running around.

Her apartment had no furniture, just a mattress in the middle of the room. When she gave me the $40 in cash for her order, I gave the 40 back to her and gave her 60 cash out of my pocket and told her, "Merry Christmas." Earlier that day, I had just watched an interview with Jimmy Darts on the Ramsay Show, which inspired me to give that lady her money back along with a little extra. Now, that's cool.

>> That's fun. So, he refunded her uh to

the amount of $60 plus the full.

>> So, she got 100 bucks in her pocket and a pizza. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Very cool. Jimmy will like that.

>> Oh, yeah. We got a We'll send him this clip. He'll be inspired by that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. If you want to learn about generosity and uh just be following Jimmy on his YouTube show and and he's got a new book out as well about it. It's a good it's a good recommendation.

He's a friend of ours and proud of that young man and how he's inspired generosity. It's his full-time gig. is all he does and he's really really good at it. So check check him out and hey way to go.

That's a paying it forward and stuff happening because Jimmy's out there moving around. He don't even know what happened. Had nothing to do with him directly. Just him on here talking about it.

>> Yeah. >> So way to go. Very cool. >> Never know who you can inspire with your own generosity story.

>> Very cool.

Hey Tim, merry Christmas. What's your giving story?

>> Merry Christmas to both of you. >> You too. >> I Yes. I was picking my son up at his

school about a year ago, late October, and I parked in a spot next to the faculty lot, and I noticed a minivan,

and it been there, it parked there virtually every day that I had picked him up for weeks. And this one particular time, I just looked over the car. I was bored. And I noticed the tires were virtually bald. Uh, I looked

inside just to examine it. I didn't know which teacher it was or faculty member.

And I saw two baby seats as well. So I go home, talk to my wife because I was

thinking of buying four brand new tires for this individual and it would have been about 500 bucks which is about a hundred over our giving budget and every dollar. So my wife immediately agreed.

Uh we called up the principal, arranged for a uh exchange. So, I give him the cash and told him to please give it to

the individual that owned the light blue silver minivan. Um, did so. Two weeks

later, I come back and there were four brand new tires on the vehicle thankfully. Um, I wanted that to be

anonymous and it was certainly anonymous. uh to add an addendum. Um I

do know that I received my wife reminded

me I received a bonus January

of the following year. So three months later I received a $750 bonus from work

minus taxes approximately $500.

So I was blessed to give that young teacher with two young children four new snow tires. And by the way, we got blasted with snow last year. It was a record snowfall, so she certainly needed it. >> Wow.

>> Well, I like that God goes ahead and gives you a Holy Spirit wink with the giving you the money right back. I like that. >> That's awesome. >> And he goes, "Let's do that again." >> He's like, "Okay, I got to go.

Let's try this again. See how this works." Yeah, I like it. I'm going again for that.

>> Very cool. Good for you.

>> Good for you. And this you you do know who the teacher is, though, right?

>> Yes. I I I found out later on and uh it

wasn't my son's teacher, but a a young single teacher nonetheless. And uh definitely in need of that gift.

>> Yeah. Way to go, man. That's awesome.

All you got to do is keep your antennas up and stuff will step right in front of you and wave at you and go, "Hello." And then you go, "Oh, well that must be my assignment." Oh, that's how that works.

It's not accidental and it's not coincidental. There's no such thing. Way to go, Tim. Proud of you. Good work.

Dennis is in Columbus, Ohio. Dennis, tell us your giving story. Merry Christmas. >> Hey, merry Christmas to you guys. Hey.

Uh, so we've been out of Baby Step 7 since 2017. And initially, we had somebody going through um some issues at

one of the children's hospitals here in town. And for Christmas, we decided to donate $1,000 worth of gifts to kind of springboard our baby step seven journey.

And ever since we got that bug, every holiday, we would find a local family to ultimately adopt. And then one time my wife found a church that was helping with foster kids. So we've done that for the last three years. And every year we've upped it. We started off with five kids three years ago. We did 10 kids last year. And this year we've done 15 kids. >> Wow. >> Um ultimately through the foster program, probably spending upwards of $2

to $3,000 on behalf of these kids. And the best part about it is it's no more fun going through a toy store shopping for these kids. And we probably spend four to five times more on these kids than we do our own nieces and nephews, which is it's kind of ironic, but it's a blast to be able to do it for them.

>> Well, as it should be. That's that's a lot. That's awesome, man. Well done.

>> Yeah. I mean, kids these kids want for for nothing in our family and we're happy to provide obviously wonderful Christmas for them, but these other kids, we make sure to get everything on their list. And it is awesome to go to the register with multiple buggies full of stuff and be able to drop this stuff off at the wonderful church here in Columbus. >> Man, that's well done.

Good for you guys. Proud of you. Good work. Good work.

Good work. Yeah. Our Ramsey family foundation works with our team. Our team gets um after they've been with us a year, they get an extra week off of time off to do ministry work.

take it by the day or by the week, however they want to take it. And so, uh, our foundation, our our family foundation arranges things where they can go help, you know, some ministry somewhere if they want to do if they want to use their time that way. And just the other day, we had a whole bunch of our team members in the parking lot doing uh, shopping for kids toys and cars lined up with trunks up and, you know, the people would come back had bought the ones and they put them in the trunks and other people go deliver them and so people using their ministry time and uh, we were funding the kids toys and all that and they were in and out of here, in here.

looked like a little flea market thing going on down there in the parking lot. But it was pretty cool. >> I love watching them loaded into the giant trailer. Just all the gifts from all the team members getting loaded up to go give to the kids.

That's special to see. >> Yep. Yeah. This year it was going into individual cars, but one year there was a flood in the area and we were going to that county and dropping it off and we had a big trailer.

That was fun. >> Yeah. The trailer just kept getting stacked and stacked and stacked and stacked and then we're afraid we're not going to be able to get it all in that trailer because people just keep bringing stuff.

It's contagious >> and you almost want to like up your up what happened last year. You're like, "Hey, let's see if we can do 15 this year. Let's do 20 next year." >> I like it. Amy's in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Amy. How are you?

>> I'm I'm better than I deserve, Mr.

Ramsey. >> I hear you. Tell us your giving story.

>> All right. So, you know, we've always strived to teach our children the true spirit of Christmas, remembering that we are undeserving of our many blessings and that everything we have is truly not ours, but rather a responsibility entrusted to us by God to manage wisely.

So, this beautiful mission began with my daughter back in October. We were just driving somewhere. I honestly don't even remember where. And she just said, "Mommy, aren't we supposed to always try to be like Jesus and do the things he would do?" "Of of course we are, sweetheart." I replied. Um, and so then

she just said, "I have a good idea for Christmas this year." Naturally, I'm like, "Oh, yeah. What is it?" Then she start she shared something that honestly nearly brought me to tears. And I might start right now. But well, Jesus teaches us to give first, then save, then send.

Maybe partially you too, Mr. Ramsey, but in that order. So we got first.

>> Yeah. And uh and Christmas is the perfect time to do that. So, we can help Santa by delivering gifts to families who don't get that as much at Christmas time. You and Daddy can wear Santa hats and me and her younger brother can be elves. And I just, of course, tears are >> This is fabulous. >> Down. Um, just to see the pure heart and

tender spirit of in and a nine-year-old, right? And I >> How much did you do? How much How many dollars you put out?

>> Uh, um, we gave about $6,000 worth of

>> Whoa.

>> Yeah. And so she just said, "Can we do that on me?" And of course I'm like, "Absolutely we can. Yes, let's do it." And I actually live in the Dallas area, but my hometown is Mville, Michigan, which is a small city about 30 minutes south of Grand Rapids, Michigan. Yeah.

>> And so fortunately, we have four close friends there who connected me with some contacts, helped us identify and adopt four [music] families to bless this Christmas. >> That's so perfect. >> Those elves were working hard.

>> Well done. >> Sometimes kids are are the best example of pure generosity. Man, they don't have That's cool. Well done.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is our annual giving show where we take calls from you and you tell a giving or

a receiving story to inspire us to be better and bigger givers because the most fun you'll ever have with money is to learn to give it. You will enjoy yourself a lot more in this life if you learn to do that. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Katherine in

Texas says, "After listening to your show, I've become more acutely aware of the people who need to take short-term jobs to make ends meet. You often suggest Door Dash or delivering pizzas." Or, "When I'm out and about and I see

someone working by picking up or making a delivery, I quietly slide whatever bills I may have in my wallet into their hand and say, "Just in case one of the

deliveries forgets to tip you." >> Oh, I love that. By the way, we haven't covered this in a while, but we probably make it's a perfect time to do it. Is if

you are having someone deliver food or

something to your house, you know, Door Dash or um whatever. Um you know,

certainly pizza, that kind of thing. I want you to ask the person how they're doing.

And if they say better than I deserve,

that means they're working that job to get out of debt and you have to double their tip.

That's the rule. We didn't make it up.

>> It's it's it's it's it's a it's a federal law. >> It's constitutional. >> It's a federal law. It's a constitutional amendment. It occurred.

And so just double their tip if they say better than I deserve because you're trying to help them get out of debt. They're out there bringing you your your poor little hungry malnourished person.

They brought you some food and I don't know, you probably wouldn't have made it if they didn't come by. You you're down to your last calorie. And then they come in and they bless you. and uh you say, "How you doing?" "Better than I deserve," is code for. "I'm working this job to get out of debt." And it's a signal for you to double their tip. It's a it's a cry for help. [laughter] >> Give me more tips so I can get out of debt faster. Please.

>> Now, here's what's going to happen, okay? Word is going to spread among delivery drivers that have no idea about Ram. >> You say this, you get a big >> This is just You just have to use this hack, this code. So, always say this phrase, and they're like, "What? Say it.

Trust me, say it." And they all, you know, it'll get around. It'll get around. It's okay. Still, they're out there earning some extra money and still I'm I'm fine with the >> They're still hustling. >> If the Ramsay hack for tipping drivers gets out there, worse things could have happened. We could have We could have inspired worse movements. George, >> it could have happened. So, tell us your giving story. 88255225.

Sue is in New York City. Hi, Sue. Merry

Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas. Uh so um a few years

ago I had gotten the opportunity to um

donate a kidney to uh a stranger.

>> Wow. How Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is not an opportunity that I've run into.

So how do you run into this opportunity?

>> Um so I mean I have to go back. My parents have modeled amazing generosity uh and love to people. So that kind of went into my portfolio and then they also gifted me with amazing DNA. So, um, when my sister-in-law's sister had needed a kidney, I had started to test for her, um, you know, quietly, uh, but I didn't match her and her hospital said, "Thanks for trying, but she has matches." And so, it kind of, you know, ended.

And I was a little disappointed because in my mind, I had already kind of done it. And so, when I kept my eyes open, kept praying.

So, I called his hospital and I said, "Listen, I know I don't blood match him, but is there a way I can help this guy?" And they said, "Actually, we participate in a voucher program where you can donate to a stranger and then he gets a voucher for the next living kidney that matches him." So, I said, "Hey, let's go for it." So, I started testing. I didn't tell anybody um because I wanted to make sure I was going to pass um and so started testing and um passed obviously.

And then once I passed all the tests, they said, "Can we tell him?" And I thought I you know I was uncomfortable.

I didn't want him to feel like beholden to me for anything but I said sure. And he has been nothing but gracious. But the amazing part of all of it was I didn't know he was attending my church.

Like it it's just so crazy. His daughter uh worked at my husband's school. Like the way our lives kind of intertwined.

It was just very very strange. I didn't know him before this. Um but I get to watch his journey. He did get his kidney 6 months after I donated mine to someone. I don't know who got that, but um and I get to see him, you know, living his best life. It's amazing.

>> Wow, that's incredible.

>> That's so that's pretty generous. Okay, >> so what's the recovery time?

>> So, um for it was so uh 10 it was two

days in the hospital about 10 days and I'm just going to say it was discomfort.

like I've always, you know, worked out hard and stuff, so it just felt like I had probably did too hard at the gym.

So, I was used to that kind of discomfort. So, I don't feel like it was pain. So, maybe 10 days of that. And then, um, by day 10, we were down at the boardwalk walking at the beach.

By 6 weeks, I was back on I'm a cyclist, so I was back on my bike. Um, and then actually five months after that, my friend and I decided to do a 100 mile bike ride. Um, and so, like, it really hasn't changed my life at all. I just want to inspire people.

I mean, you can do crazy things.

>> That's That's very cool. Very cool.

That's legit. >> Very inspiring. >> Sue, that's something else. That's um

>> Well, that's like you said, it's DNA.

It's the generosity your parents planted in you. So, >> yeah. >> There's There's layers of sacrificial generosity that's up there.

>> An organ, that's a different one. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> With that kind of recovery time, all to be generous. Wow. >> While still living. Yeah. >> I didn't know about this pay it forward kidney voucher program. That's fascinating. Never heard of that before. >> Pretty cool. >> Yeah. Wild.

>> Lyn's in Sacramento. Hey Lynn, tell us your giving story.

>> You better start again cuz all I heard was you're dropping the phone.

Are you there?

>> Three, two, one. You're on hold till we get you straightened out, kiddo.

Stephanie's in Chicago. Tell us your giving story, Stephanie. Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas, Dave. Uh well, first of all, this is a real gift to me because I get to talk about my son. Um so my giving story begins with God as all the best stories do. Um my husband and I are

blessed with three beautiful daughters and in 2024 we we prayed on whether or not we should have a fourth child and felt like God answered our prayer and we uh became pregnant with a son. Um he was

diagnosed with tricome 18 early in my pregnancy. Mhm. >> Um and uh that was a very difficult

walk, but I'll tell you, God uh was paving the way for us cuz we found a really amazing church before all this happened. And um those people just surrounded us with prayer through everything. Um we received a miracle when my son was born alive at full term

and he lived one week um before he died.

M >> um and uh I don't I mean I don't need to say it's the most difficult thing a parent can experience.

>> Absolutely. >> But um the generosity that flooded in around us just took my breath away.

>> Uh my husband's boss and co-workers showed up with cash and Door Dash gift cards and >> the small groups we belong to at church sent money and and gift cards just so we wouldn't have to think about meals. Um because it wasn't the money we needed, it was just the peace, >> the gap, the margin. and um

his his work also submitted a claim for life insurance that we didn't even remember we would have uh so we were

able to donate a percentage of that to the NICU that took care of him at Lorie Children's Hospital. >> Wow. >> Um to try and support other families that are going through the worst days of their lives. >> Amen. Wow.

That's a tough one. But people step up when they see their friends hurting.

They step up and they're generous.

Nobody talks about this enough. You're out there, boys and girls. I know you're out there. We talk about you and to you all the time.

[music]

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[music] [bell]

[bell] George Camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host. Today we're taking calls from people who gave or received something to inspire more generosity. Outrageous generosity.

If you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. It's

not unusual for someone to do their debt-free scream on the debtree stage.

And we asked them why. What was your why? What was it that drove you to do this? They said we wanted to be in a position to give more.

Giving has always been fun for us and we want to do more of it. We hear that all the time on the debtfree stage. Kevin's in Springfield, Missouri. Hey, Kevin.

Merry Christmas. Tell us your giving story. >> Hey, merry Christmas, guys. Um, so real uh long story short, um, we're watching

a young boy um, overnight. Uh, a girl

that we're watching her him for works overnight and has nowhere to take him.

My company I work for called Keep Supply, the director of sales heard about the story and my company decided

to give her a whole entire Christmas and her son and give her a bunch of cash and it's unbelievable.

>> Wow, that's cool. That's cool. Does she

know this yet?

>> Uh yeah. So, so far we've we've furnished her whole entire house um with donations from people I work with cuz she had nothing. >> Mhm. Um, and so yeah, so she knows that

part. She doesn't know about Christmas for her and her son yet, but I'm sure she will after after today. So, >> it's the gift that keeps on giving. She shows up from work every time. There's more stuff. That's awesome.

>> Yeah. >> How did you get everyone involved at work? Was it kind of like once word spread, everyone was like, I want in.

>> Um, yeah. So my my wife works for Life

Church and so she just gave her life to Christ a few weeks ago and um I told the

story to our director of sales and we're also a Smart Dollar company by the way, Dave. But >> thank you. >> Um told her Yeah. So I told the story to

our director of sales and he said, "I have an idea." And he came back and next thing I know uh we have a team called People and Culture and they decided to do everything. So >> wow. washer and dryer. Brand new washer and dryer. $500 gift card. $100 gift card from Aldi. Like just crazy stuff,

>> man.

That's off the chain. Wow. Very cool,

Kevin. >> Well done. And you get to be right at the epicenter of the whole thing, right?

>> Absolutely. Yeah. It's so It's so fun.

So, >> yeah. Very cool. And we'll see some big smiles. And that lady, there's no telling where she'll be in 20 years cuz somebody gave her a boost, right?

>> Absolutely. Yep. That's her.

>> Yeah. She's a warrior princess fighting, working nights just to keep her head above water, right? >> Yes, sir. Yep. >> Man, you're a good man, Kevin. Your company's good people. Well done. That's how it's done. When we the people take care of we the people. It's an amazingly efficient process as opposed to extracting taxes

from someone and 2% of it actually ends up going to help someone. And 82% is

lost somewhere down a toilet in Washington. So, I mean, what would happen if we the people took care of we the people completely and you made Washington irrelevant?

That'd be pretty cool. That would be like awesome. Some of those people could get like a different job.

>> That's true. [laughter]

>> Think about how many St. Judes you could build, you know? It's pretty wild.

[laughter] >> It's crazy what you could do. Uh, Vanessa's in Toronto. Hi, Vanessa. Merry

Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Hi Dave. Merry Christmas. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. >> Um I have a story a story about

receiving money for school and then paying it forward giving money for school as well. >> Ah >> um so yeah so when I was young my grandparents birthday Christmas money would give to my parents for school.

They saved it over the years and invested it for me.

>> Um and then when I was 15 my grandma passed away in 2001. So, she didn't quite see me go to school. Um, but two years later, I did go to university.

>> So, the money they had given me, um, along with $1,000 that I received from a family friend were both a huge blessing.

They helped me to pay for my first year of tuition, which was amazing.

>> Very cool. >> Um, yeah. So, then, um, after

university, got married, bought a house, started a family. Fast forward to 2017,

and we found the Ramsay plan. Um, we read the total money makeover and started paying off debts. We had just a couple of car loans to pay off. Um, but we were working on that. At the end of that year, my mom passed away unexpectedly.

>> Yeah. So, it was a hard time, but we had

some generous family who um instead of

donations gave us money to put into my

kids education funds because my mom was big on education for her grandkids. Mhm.

>> So, we received um some generous money there to put in my kids' education funds

and it will grow cuz they were five and under at the time. So, it will grow over the years and be quite a bit for them when they go to school. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. So, in 2018 we hit our debtree

except the mortgage milestone and then so because we were debtree we were able to be more generous. So, I really wanted to pay it forward to other family to help them go to school. Um, so I decided

to just do kind of an informal scholarship for family members. Um, my grandma's name was Rose, my mom's middle name was Rose, my middle name is Rose, and my daughter's middle name is Rose.

>> Got a feeling this is the Rose Scholarship. >> The Rose The Rose Scholarship. Yes.

>> In honor of the four generations.

>> Um, so in 2021 when my niece on my

husband's side went to college, we were able to give her the first road scholarship of $1,000.

>> Ah. Very nice.

>> Yeah. So, when we presented it to her, we wrote a little letter with the meaning behind it. Her mom read it out loud at her graduation party and as she was reading it, a butterfly appeared and was flying around um while she was reading it out loud. So, it was a really beautiful moment that kind of signal signaled our loved ones were with us during that time.

But it was really beautiful. >> And then yeah, we plan on doing it in the future with more nieces and nephews and then maybe down the road outside the family too, just to to keep paying that forward for education. >> Amen. Well done.

Very well played.

like it. I like it. It's often how we

learn to or we often give in a place where someone has helped us in the past.

And so to flip it over and you know, uh, Larry Krab says a wounded healer.

Sometimes the very wound that you got is a place you can bring healing to someone else. And the very time that you received something is the very time you the very way you turn able to give >> something in that same area. Sometimes that's just an assignment just a God assignment and sometimes it's just a a place in your heart, you know. >> Yeah.

>> And probably the same thing. >> So that's a cool thing to think about is where where are those wounds for you where you can help someone else heal in your life because that's where it's going to be the most impactful. >> Yeah. when did somebody do something from you that made a big difference and and uh so forth.

and if you give a car to someone, say a single mom that doesn't have a car and enable her to get a job, enable her to get, you know, her dignity, enable her to get moving again, um it changes her

life. And if that $5,000 car does that for one, that means it's only $50,000 to do it for 10.

>> That's all it is. And >> the ripple effect of that is mind-blowing. >> It's incredible. Lots of churches now have started uh Larry Berquette started this many many years ago. And it's he he

would be he's passed on. He's in heaven.

But I'm sure he's pleased from his perspective the number of churches that have followed through on what he talked them into doing. And they they have a car ministry and people donate their cars. By the way, if you donate a car, uh, you can take a tax deduction for the

market value of the car. And so, um, if

you got a car that, you know, needs a little bit of work and the church has a ministry, they'll fix it up for somebody and give it to somebody, but you can donate it at full price, um, it's pretty cool. And so if you got a, you know, uh

maybe you bought a car this year and don't, if your church has a car program or you know of a church that has a car program, uh that's a good way to do it.

When you are donating something, it of

any kind, what a piece of real estate, a stock, uh a car, anything like that,

what you paid for it does not matter in

terms of the write off. If you're donating it to a qualified 501c3 where

you can take a write off a ministry, a charity, whatever, then you get to write off full market value. So, I was talking to a guy the other day that, you know, he had some Exxon stock that he had paid

nothing for, but it, you know, he probably had his basis in it was probably less than $50,000 and it was worth a million dollars. >> Wow. >> But, so if he sold it, he's got gains on every bit of that. But by donating it, he gets to write off a million dollars.

And so he donated it >> and be generous in the process. It's a win-win. >> Yeah. You get market value write off on whatever it is you donate. It's pretty cool.

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>> [music]

[bell] [music]

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>> on the debtfree stage in the Ramsey Solutions lobby on our annual giving show. One of our own team members,

Nicole O'Harn, product manager with Ramsey Plus team, which means she works on every dollar among other things these days. her husband Perry. And you've been with us how long, Nicole? >> Two years. >> Two years on the Ramsay team.

>> Yes. >> All right. And we hear a rumor that you have a great giving story.

>> Yes. So, actually two years right before I started, we were on the stage and we did our debtree scream. Um, and then a couple months, you know, being on the team, uh, one of our staff meetings, I heard a story of a co-orker giving away a car. And I had said to Perry, I'd be like, that would be really cool to do that one day. So, fast forward, um, we

found out I was pregnant. And, you know, we know the story. Just because you're having a baby doesn't mean you need to get a new car. But, we found out we were pregnant with twins.

>> So, we had one already and we tried a

bunch of different variations of like car seats. How could we fit three car seats in the back row of our car? And we just couldn't figure out a way to make that work. So, we're like, "Okay, we got to upgrade cars. we need a car that can fit all the kids. Um, and so we started looking for cars. We had our beta car.

Um, and so we were like, we could sell it. It had like 200,000 miles on it. We could sell it for a,000, $2,000. Um, and

then I heard one of our co-workers, his daughter was looking for a car and she it was her first car and she had a a b a

small budget. Um, and I heard the stories of some of the cars that they were like coming across. And so I said to Perry, I was like, "Why don't we give our car to his daughter?" Um, and so we

were like, it was an easy decision. I don't think there was much discussion. It was just timing of when we want to get the new car and all that jazz. So once we decided we wanted to do it and when we could do it. Um, Perry came up with a great idea of how we wanted to gift it to her. >> Yeah. So basically what we did was we had him have a kind of dadaughter meeting talking outside about budget and college and everything like that and we parked around the corner. I had bought a

uh keychain with her name on it and the

plan was we were going to be walking with our kids around the corner and then essentially I acted like I found a pair of keys in front of their house. And so I just said, "Oh, excuse me. Did you guys drop some keys?" And she looked at her dad and she came out. No.

And I go, "Are you sure there's a name? I don't I don't know whose name this is." And then she looked and kind of looked at her dad and was like, "What's what's happening right now?" And so then we got to break it to her that that was her car and we were giving it to her. >> That's so fun. >> That's great.

So, what kind of car is this? >> It was a uh Hyundai >> Santa Fe >> Santa Fe. >> Oh, that's a great teenager car. >> Yeah, it's still it's still working.

It's still driving.

>> Yeah. Good. >> That is so cool. Well played, y'all.

Yeah, [laughter] it was it was just it felt just so great to be able to be in a place that we were able to just give it and it not have like yeah, does that money would that money be great? Sure, we have twins. There's a lot of expenses, but it was so much uh more

worth it to be able to give that um and be in a place in our life now, thanks to getting out of debt, that it's like it's it was an easy decision. So, it's great.

>> Amen. Well, and it's it's fun that in this environment at Ramsey, that kind of stuff happens all the time. And so, you've kind of got that in front of you to prompt you and go, "Oh, we could do that instead of like where it's never going on." You know, there's stuff like that happens around here every day. And it's uh just this place is very weird, but um >> weird as normal around here.

>> Weird. Weird in a good way. But yeah, um it's it's um yeah, that's fun. Way to go, y'all.

>> Yeah. What kind of car did you buy for the twins? Well, she wanted a minivan and I fought it really, really hard. So, I did everything I can to kind of >> Dude, you're in the minivan zone.

>> So, I I somehow won and we got a really good deal on a Volkswagen Atlas.

>> Yeah. Beautiful car. >> So, it has the three the two rows.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I've explained to him it would be so much easier if we had a minivan to get to that back row, but [laughter] >> he'll give in eventually. Eventually, we also come to the minivan.

>> That's so fun. >> It's just a phase. You don't you don't have to live there forever. It's just a there's a phase of minivan phase and then you can move on to other stuff.

Very good. Congratulations y'all. Well done. And hey, thanks for thanks for telling us that story. That's absolutely very very well done. >> It's close to home in these walls.

>> Good stuff. Good stuff. The number of times the first time we ever gave a car

um it was a disaster.

[laughter] We did it at the Christmas party. Uh the lady has now passed away. Her name was Joy. and um she'd gone through a nasty

mess uh of life uh nasty divorce and she

was broke and um I'm like we're going to

give her this car and so I bought this you know car and it wasn't super like8 or $10,000 and uh we at the Ramsay

Christmas party we always do some bizarre giving and stuff and so we bring

the thing inside the building where we

were doing the Christmas party and uh they said you can do that but you have to unhook the battery because they're afraid it's going to blow up or something in the building, right? So, we unhook the battery and we hook the battery back up, gave it to her, and it wouldn't start. >> Oh boy. >> So, all the guys end up pushing this car

outside and we get the jumper cables out of my truck and jump off. It kind of took the edge off the gift, you know?

Yeah. >> It's just like this is a, you know, it's like, okay, this thing's such a piece of crap it won't start and we just gave it to you. Good luck with that. Right.

>> And is like, are all the team members now watching this occur? >> Oh, YEAH. YEAH. IT'S LIKE, "GET IN THE [laughter] CAR. TURN IT ON. YOU GOT A CAR. TICK TICK tick tick tick tick tick tick. Won't start." It's just like, it was so anticlimactic. It was so awful.

Yours was a lot better. Yeah.

>> Theirs was a lot better. Walk around the corner and give them the keys. That's just perfect. >> You should have just said batteries not included. You got to get your own.

>> Yeah. No, it was just I was just mortified. >> Oh god. >> But u all you know have you have all these plans, all this the way you see this in your head. It's going to be glorious and it's won't start. Oh my

god. It was awful. It was horrible. Lynn

is in Sacramento. Merry Christmas, Lynn.

Tell us your giving story.

>> Well, first of all, thank you very much for reinforcing the generosity piece. I

really have taken it to heart. Good. And I I really believe in um being generous

with words of gratitude and praise with

people. So, this past Thanksgiving when

I was doing my Thanksgiving cards, I decided to think of someone that I know who has a hard job and is really dedicated to it. And not only that, this person smiles and waves and is cheerful.

And I don't really know this personally.

I'm just slightly acquainted with him.

And he is our trash collector.

And because we live in a wooded area, there are times uh when the bears get into our neighbors trash and um he gets

out of his truck. >> War zone duty for being a trash collector. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And um some of these neighbors have not kind of gotten into the program about how to alleviate this issue. But anyway, he just does it. He he doesn't complain. He smiles and I've asked to help and he kindly dismisses me and he just goes about the task without complaint.

I told him, "Yeah, go ahead, open it." And he opened it. He read it and he saw

like the $10 or $20 I put in.

And then surprise, he got down out of

his truck and he's in his 50s.

He gave me a big hug and with tears in his eyes, he told me that no one had ever thanked him like that in his 20 plus years of service.

>> Wow. And I just thought, well, you know, it really goes to show how a thank you and a small gesture for someone who does a seemingly minor job day in and day

out. How >> It's not minor if it doesn't get done.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And I I just think of all these folks who do a lot of the dirty work and they need to be remembered and recognized and thanked at any time of the year. And um anyway, and then in my email, he had also added that

there's a um a message that I play in my head from time to time and it's from Abraham Lincoln and he said, "Whatever you are, be a good one." >> Yeah. >> And that that certainly applied to our beloved truck trash collector. So >> very cool. Well done, Lynn.

Score. Yeah. I gotta say my wife uh she

never misses the postman this time of year and never misses the trash collector this >> she's watching. >> Yeah, she takes good care of them. They know they're they know they're liked and Lynn's the same way. Way to go, Lynn.

It's a good reminder, folks. Good reminder. Yeah, that's good. Very good.

our annual giving show. You're on the Ramsay Show.

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What no one tells you about money. Abby

is in Atlanta. Abby, tell us your giving story. Merry Christmas.

>> Merry Christmas, Dave. Um, so my giving

story um really started um almost 11

years ago, believe it or not. Um I had a little girl. Me and my husband have been very blessed with two children, but unfortunately we had some major complications. Um when our little girl was born, she was born at 25 weeks gestation and she weighed 1 lb and 11 oz. Um we were in the NICU for over 110

odd days. Um but she thrived and did amazing. Um I really had no complications except she was born early and she had to hang out in the NICU for some time. Um so whenever we consulted

with our doctors about four years later to to try to add to our family, they thought, you know, yes, this that was a fluke. That won't happen again. Um, four years after that, uh, our little boy came along, but he was born, um, even earlier at 23 weeks gestation, um, weighing, uh, one pound and 8 ounces.

But this time, um, he was born with a grade four brain bleed, um, which leads to some really, really, um, which typically leads to some major complications as far as the inability to walk or talk. M >> um and while we were going through that

um just during his his time in the hospital um one month we just had more months than we had money. Um and we

could have asked a family member to help us um but instead we just decided to pray. Um and we just said God, you know, please provide for us for this month. We were able to cover all of our bills, but we had just one bill that was left. Um

and so we had prayed about it. Um, a a few days go by and our father-in-law actually visits a local auto parts store here in our hometown. Um, and the man doesn't know us directly. Um, but he knows our story.

So, he asks how we're go, how we're doing. And he pulls out $200 to give to our father-in-law. Um, and our father-in-law of course gives us that money and then, um, shares with us, you know, he wanted to just to bless us and our story.

Um, and that's really kind of what I want to focus on as far as this story.

Um, that, you know, our bills were covered because someone decided to to show some gratitude and be giving. Wow.

Um, and while that is kind of the highlight and the peak of the story, um, kind of to to wrap the story up, even though our little boy had a grain for grade four brain bleed, um, he's a walking and talking miracle today. We have both of our children have no signs of uh, prematurity or niku stay and they

are both thriving and living perfectly normal lives, then um, enjoy listening to the Ramsay show. >> Praise God. That's awesome. >> What a miracle. That's amazing. Good.

Good. Good. >> Wow. Yeah. Right when you're at the uh

at at the peak of stress and someone steps in and says, "Well, we'll cover, you know, we'll cover a little bit of it for you." They don't understand that it's like everything.

>> Absolutely. It's it's life-changing. And you know, we were just able to again see that God will provide for you.

>> Yeah. Amen. Amen. Another another faith

builder, if you will. Yeah.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Good story. Well shared, Abby.

Well done. Well done. And I'm so glad the kids are great. That's a great great part of the story as well. Robin's with us in Vermont. Merry Christmas, Robin.

>> Oh, merry Christmas to you.

>> So, tell us your giving story.

>> Sure. Sure. So, um, we've been on the able to be generous side and also been recipients of generosity. So, we've been able to give away two cars. Um, so in

both cases, we were at a situation where we had two cars, but we didn't need the second car. So in the first one we were seminary students and um there was a family from Kazakhstan that had come to the seminary um in the states and the

they only had a bicycle to run all their errands and um and so we were like that that can't happen. So we were able to give them one of our cars and then a few years later we were in another situation where we had two cars and we didn't need two cars. So there was another family um they had just had their third child and needed a larger vehicle. So, we were able to give them our van um so that they could get um started off great on that.

realized how much more expensive it is to live here than it is um in Alabama where we're from. And um we couldn't do

Christmas for our family that year. and a Sunday school class in a church in Birmingham, Alabama, adopted us um as

their project and they just overwhelmed

us with their generosity um with these amazing Christmas gifts that year and we are just so thankful and to this day still remember it. And that was almost 20 years ago. >> Amen. Amen. That's cool. It's very cool.

And uh there's something weird back on the car thing. There's something weird about giving away cars. I've done it several times >> and you know, you give away three or $4,000 is one thing. You give away three or $4,000 car, it just seems like a big thing cuz it's a big thing.

You know, the thing is big >> and so physically and so you're just like it's a different feeling. It's a different uh feeling for the recipient, for the giver, for everyone involved and uh pretty cool stuff. Yeah.

And you ended up after the uh Are you still on Are you still missionaries?

>> Yeah. Um not technically anymore. We're still up here in Vermont. Yeah, that's what I end up taking in a we ended up taking an established church after planting two two churches. So um so now

now we're just uh in the regular.

>> Okay. All right. So So your p your husband's a pastor. >> He is.

Yes. >> Oh, okay. Very cool. Very cool.

Well, it's easy to spread the word then with that and let people know about generosity and you did a good job sharing it today. Congratulations. Very well done. Very well done.

>> I love that. There's I feel like there's two parts to these stories. One is you have to be have the ability to see the opportunity to look up and out and you need to do that from a place of strength >> because when you're stressed out about your own money problems, you're you're sort of forced to look inward.

>> Yeah. >> That's part two. When you're when you're worried about your own food, it's hard to worry about somebody else's.

>> And technically, you really shouldn't.

>> Yeah. >> By the way, you should take care of your own household first. That's a biblical standard. So, feed your kids and don't let your kids be hungry while you're feeding somebody else's kids. That's that's weird. It's not it's not what the Bible calls for. And so, but but you know, work, live, give like no one else,

right? and put yourself in a position as we say when you get to baby step seven where you're 100% debtree house and everything then you can be just outrageously generous and what by then

what feels like a little bit of money to you will be a lot of money to somebody else or a little bit of help to someone else be a lot of help to someone else.

It it feels different because the ratios are different in your life. >> Yeah. And I love that these stories, I mean, it ranges from $40 to $4,000. And

it was never the amount. And so that's I want to encourage people. >> It's an awareness. >> Yeah.

I want to encourage people if you think, well, I don't have $4,000 to give. I only have 40. Hey, give a little until you can give a lot. And you don't know how it's going to affect the other person.

>> Yeah. If you're walking through, you know, a store, you're standing pumping gas, you're doing whatever, and a thought comes to you that that person over there needs help. That was not a thought. That was God's voice saying, "Go help them." >> So, be aware.

Be looking up. Be keep your, you know, keep keep a little extra cash in your pocket. Be thinking about this stuff.

Opportunities are everywhere.

>> So, be ready when it comes.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. It's our annual giving show. George Camel, Ramsay

personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today where we're taking calls from you where you tell us your giving stories to inspire

generosity.

We would love to hear from you. So many

years ago, we started doing this show. I mean, I've been on the air for 35 years.

So, uh, we started doing a giving show at the Christmas time, and Blake Thompson in those days was our producer.

Blake's been working at Ramsey for 30 years. And so, um, he was the producer in those days. And he was from Kansas City originally, grew up in Kansas City.

So, he brought up, he goes, "You need to know about this guy named Secret Santa."

And there was a guy between the years 1979 and 2006 that would dress up and nobody could figure out who he was. He dressed up as Santa Claus. and he would go to an area where there had been a tragedy, New Orleans after Katrina or

something like that, right? Where there maybe there he went to Coline after there was a shoot after the school shooting there in the infamous school shooting uh and so forth. And he went around to Santa Claus and handed out

$1,000 to somebody and then to somebody

else. And he'd give out 10, 20, $30,000 walking around, you know, $500 or $1,000 at a time. He just walk into a store, look at somebody and go, "This person needs some help and Jesus loves you."

And gives gives them some money. Well, it got to be where people kind of knew what he was doing. So, they had he had to get his buddies from uh Kansas City to come as they were on the police force and escort him so that he, you know, >> no one tackled him to try to get money, >> get 30,000 bucks out of the guy, you know, whatever. But he ended up giving away uh over $2 million as Secret Santa

over the years 79 through 06. So, uh,

the Kansas City Star kept trying to figure it out. And finally, uh, he came out and told us who he was because he was dying of cancer. >> Oh, wow. >> And he passed away in '08.

But before that, we got to meet Larry Stewart and Blake got in touch with him. We had Larry come on the air and tell the whole story on Secret Santa. And he kind of there's a secret Santa, I think.com or whatever. He kind of wanted to franchise it.

He wanted he wanted everybody to go get a Santa costume and give away $10,000 all over America. He wanted to, you know, give away 20 million where he only gave away 2 million. And it all started, he was a beautiful man, just a neat guy. But it all started, he was in Alabama and he was broke and he was homeless and he he was hungry.

went into a diner and oldfashioned diner and went up to the bar, the you know the diner with the round stools kind of thing, right? sat at the diner, ordered food, ate the food, and um then acted like he forgot his

wallet. And he was just basically he wasn't dining and dashing, but he was just telling the guy, you know, that ran the thing uh he said, "I I'm so sorry. I forgot my wallet." And and um the the guy running the diner to save Larry's

dignity reached down under the stool and said, "Hey, I think you dropped this." and handed him 20 bucks and he let him keep his dignity and he gave him the meal in other words and Larry never forgot that and he said if I ever make any money I'm going to do stuff like that my whole life and so we had him on there and he was telling all these stories it was fabulous and so he was in the uh uh cable TV business and

became very wealthy obviously and he always remembered that time that guy reached under the stool and magically found a $20 bill that wasn't there a few minutes ago right and uh to take care of him. And so he's dressed up as Secret Santa and gave away over $2 million,

$1,500 at a time.

>> That is wild. What a cool. This is before the advent of social media.

>> Yeah. And he kept it like the original Jimmy D. >> He kept it quiet. Nobody knew who he was.

And I mean, Kansas City Star tried to follow him around. They tried to figure out where he was going. He went to New York City after the Twin Towers came down with the terrorists and all that, right? So he's walking around in New York City and giving away money and people are like, "Who is this guy?" Nobody stand out in a crowd, people want to know who who is this guy.

>> Yeah. I mean, well, you're Santa and you're giving away thousand pops, people want to know. And they never could figure it out until he decided he was going to come out and tell who he was.

Everybody started doing stories on him then. And we got in touch with him. He came on. He came on here uh I think he came on here two or three times before he passed away. He lived a while with his cancer. Wow. >> But uh it was pretty incredible.

>> Pretty incredible. Look him up. Larry Stewart in Kansas City. Secret Santa. By

the way, y'all could go do that.

Yeah, some of y'all lady called in a while ago. The her kid wanted to be the elf and her uh M Mr. Mrs. Claus, right?

And they they did it kind of did it.

They weren't too weren't real secret about it. They didn't, you know, weren't completely dressed up with the full >> It's up to you if you want to be in full costume or not. I know Dave prefers to be in costume most of the time. >> Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, definitely. You I'm big on costumes, George. But the uh What in the world? Yeah, but the uh uh but the thing is you could do this.

You could just you could put on a little Santa. >> I'll be your elf. That's all I'm saying. If you want to be Santa, I'll volunteer to be the elf.

>> Or we can just be in plain clothing and give money away. That's fine, too. >> George, you're just messing up this whole thing. >> Well, it reminds me last year we uh went to Waffle House and I got to give $10,000 away at two different Waffle Houses and that was about the most fun I had.

So, thank you for the gift of that. We we got with the Ramsey team and they said, "Let's do this." We got video and got the crew out and snuck in and and you gave away how many people different people got the $10,000. >> Well, we eventually we gave it to a certain employee at Waffle House. We knew that there was a story there and it was >> the whole 10,000 [snorts] for one person.

>> Well, we gave her I think 2,000 just to her.

It's amazing. Waffle House is like a time capsule. And uh and then we just gave it to a few different employees and it was a really special time. No, we got that. [laughter] That's probably sitting on YouTube, isn't it? >> Oh, yeah. That's on our Ramsay Show highlight YouTube channel. Just search Waffle House on there and uh it's in your neck of the woods in Antioch where you grew up. >> Okay, that's a good Waffle House.

>> Solid. >> No, there's no bad ones. >> I was tempted to eat, but we were on the clock, so I thought, "All right, we'll get out of here." >> There's no bad ones. There's no bad ones. Yeah. The uh and another fun one we did around here was uh we figured out because we work getting people out of debt that the people that when a debt goes bad and it's in collections, they will sell that debt for somewhere around 3 to 5 cents on the dollar. So 50 bucks

will buy $1,000 debt in other words. And

uh debt buyers buy that and then they go try to collect it and make that 95 cent 97 profit 97 cent swing right on the ones they can collect and the residents they can't collect they can't collect and so we got in touch with one of the brokers of the debt buying stuff three or four years ago I guess I remember what year 22 23 somewhere in there and I

told him that we wanted to buy it to forgive it we were going to just forgive the debt and he got all excited and helped us and we were able to buy $10 million worth of debt for 259,000. Two and a half cents on the dollar. So for 250,000 bucks, we got $10 million worth of debt. 8,000 accounts and we have a,000 people. So we gave each of our thousand people 10 people to call and tell that their debt had been forgiven in Jesus name.

And uh that was their that was our team's Christmas present. >> I made a few of those calls. It was a lot of >> and they were people didn't they didn't even believe you. They're like, "What? This some kind of scam?

>> Send me an email. I want I want proof." Well, we had to make a website to send them to to say, "No, this is legitimate.

Go to this website. We will prove it." >> People, I mean, when when you get down, you've been kicked and you've had those collectors calling you. It's hard to it's hard to not >> It's been seven years. >> Yeah. But it's like your medical debt, your car repo debt, your credit card debt that you hadn't paid in 6 years or whatever, it's forgiven. Zero. You don't know a thing in Jesus' name. And man, the stories were great. People, the people working here love making their eight phone calls each. That's for sure.

It was a lot of fun. So, you can do all kinds of fun stuff once you get this thing moving. Generosity is a big deal, boys and girls.

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>> It's our annual giving show. Thanks for hanging out with us and telling your giving stories. Rose is in Colorado Springs. Merry Christmas, Rose. Tell us your giving story.

>> Thank you for taking my call and letting me tell my story, Dave. Um, sure.

>> Last year, 2 days after my husband and I decided to divorce, I fell at work and I tore my ACL and a bunch of other ligaments in my knee.

>> Um, I needed Yeah, I needed a massive surgery. And this was one week before Thanksgiving. Uh, I was set to have my surgery the day after Christmas. And four days before Christmas, my ex-husband emptied my house of furniture.

Basically took everything except for the dining room table of the bed and the Christmas tree. Uh, one of my friends decided to take me away for a night and while we were gone, another friend of mine refernished my entire house for me. >> Wow.

everything. She completely redid my whole house so that when I came home from surgery, I came home to furniture.

>> Well, you picked better friends than husbands. Well done.

>> Absolutely. [laughter] >> Oh, wow. That that was a happy ending to a sad story. >> Wow.

How are you doing today? >> I got my first night away and then I got

a new house. So, it was awesome. I'm doing really good.

>> My knees healed up and life's going on.

>> Good for you. >> As it always does. >> Good for you. >> This will be a merrier Christmas hopefully. >> So, you'll have the opportunity to do that for someone someday, won't you?

>> I will. And I'm looking forward to it.

>> Amen. Amen. Great story. I like it.

That's cool. Hey, friends got your back when you're down. >> Yeah. I mean, you got your knee busted and the husband takes off. I mean, this is like a country song, right?

>> But your friends got your back and >> and apparently a key to the house. That's the other thing they needed.

[laughter] >> They got in there somehow. It's impressive. >> For real. Very cool. Lydia is in Pittsburgh. Merry Christmas, Lydia. Tell us your giving story, please.

>> Merry Christmas. So, this all started about two months ago for us. Uh my one-year-old daughter was having respiratory issues. So we took her to her pediatrician. From there we went to the ER and then from there she got a helicopter ride uh because they saw a tumor in her chest. So once they did further scans they saw the tumor was basically taking up half of her chest.

Uh it was almost completely compressing her one lung and pushing her heart to the wrong side of her body. And by the end of the day we had met with every doctor and there was a plan for surgery to remove the tumor the next day.

>> Wow. So, yeah. So, the next day, uh, she

had surgery.

>> Uh, well, so she had surgery the day before her birthday.

>> Her first birthday. >> Oh my goodness. Just a baby. Okay.

>> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Tiny little thing. She weighed Yeah. 16 pounds. That was all.

>> Uh, so the next day she had surgery and thank God everything went as well as it possibly could have. Uh the tumor ended up weighing a pound of those 16 lbs and we were told it weighed had about a coke can of fluid in it. Uh but they were able to remove it all with no issues and about a week later we found out the tumor was completely benign which was the biggest blessing. >> Amen.

But uh during that time there were hundreds to thousands of people praying for her. Her nurses made her birthday very special and it was really inspiring to see the community that came around us. [snorts] >> So while we were in the hospital um our old pastor actually came to visit with his wife to pray for her. And after talking to them for a bit we actually learned they had a hectic year themselves.

Uh they had been in the hospital with one of their kids almost every month.

weren't sure how their bills were going to be paid that month. So, we set aside money for giving each month. Uh we had some saved up and my husband felt we should give them $1,500. So, we did

>> and this stressed me out a little bit just with the unknown of our own medical bills. And we're also having our second child in about 3 weeks. So, we got that coming up.

Uh but we had no doubt it was the right thing to do. who felt like one of those God nudges and just uh trust me in this.

So, uh we did it anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, God is really faithful and he didn't even let a week go by before we were blessed with that money in return.

>> Of course, >> uh we had many people bless our family and most of them we didn't even know personally or had many of their own struggles. So, I've always loved giving,

but I've never been in a situation where the blessing came back to us so quickly, especially in our time of need. Uh, but God's grace and provision has amazed us and that's never been more clear than the past two months of our life.

>> Amen. Amen. Y'all had a had your boat full. That's for sure. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just a little bit.

>> And what special people you are. You're in the middle of a huge crisis with a little baby and yet you you can lift your eyes up and look over and see someone else's need.

>> That's put that on my husband. He he's the one who uh caught on to it. I was a little preoccupied, but >> Yeah. Amen. You're both people of high character and integrity and generosity.

That's a beautiful trait. >> Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Well done, Lydia. Well done. Good story and good. Obviously, um powerful gift.

So, very, very well done. Kelsey in Georgia says, "Recently, our daughter came home and said she noticed a boy in her class couldn't eat lunch because his lunch account wasn't paid. Each day my

daughter or one of her friends would get extra get an extra tray to give him.

After hearing this, we decided to contact the school and paid off his lunch debt and even added some extra funds to his account so he could eat lunch at school. There we go.

>> That is cool. >> That's good. That's cool. >> That's a good reminder.

You can cover I mean lunch debt is a crazy thing that even exists in schools, but if you can just contact the school and say, "Hey, I want to cover everyone's lunch debt. How much is on the tab? I'll cover it." That's a cool thing to do. >> It wouldn't be, you know, it's not going to it's not going to be $100,000.

I mean, so that's not a bad >> It's a stressor for that person's life going, "Oh my gosh, I owe the school money so my kid can eat." That's just wild. >> Yeah. And I' I've watched people many times uh find a young couple that were struggling.

Just, you know, you again, four, five, 6,000 bucks in most cases, right? and you can pay the whole year out and just go this is the whole year and put enough on on file with that with the utility that it a year or plus or minus but somewhere and people's hey that changes changes it's a big deal it moves the needle with people there's all kinds of stuff you can do guys all kinds of giving that's out there that's that's possible and probable so uh we jumped on

our Ramsey uh Facebook page if you didn't know there's a baby steps Facebook page and the baby steps community Facebook p group and we pled them said [clears throat] which type of giving feels the most meaningful to you financial uh was 13%.

Helping someone directly whether it's with money or time 72%.

Uh just volunteering time was 11%. So that's good response. Have you ever regifted a Christmas gift you didn't like? 100% I would. Yeah. 87% said they

had no is 13%.

>> They were just too nice. Yeah.

So, I left a bottle of wine at my friend's house about a month and a half ago >> on purpose. >> Yeah. I mean, we took we took wine over there to have dinner and I left an extra bottle. It was it was a nice bottle. And so, he came to my house this week for dinner and brought brought me my bottle.

>> The same bottle. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Wow.

>> He knew it was a regift. He knew it was a regift gift. Regift. Yeah.

>> It's just going to keep making it round. >> It's pretty fun though. Yeah. What motivates you most to give? A desire to help someone in need? 37% my faith or my personal values 48% seeing the impact 7%

it makes me feel good 8% do you tip at

kiosk screens and nonsitdown restaurants

or coffee shops uh 64% never 31% no or I mean sometimes

George 100% no >> those just here's the thing here's the the tip off that bothers me they start being nice to me as soon as they flip the screen Until then, their attitude changes. >> Until then, they weren't nice. >> Until then, there was just a transaction to them, but all of a sudden it's I like those glasses. Hey, how's your day going? And I go, this is clearly a ruse to get me to give you. >> Going to spin the old uh iPad around

here. And yeah, >> cuz you want generosity. It's a matter of the heart. I want to be inspired to give, not forced like an obligation. And uh so that's a good example there. But I love this one. My faith or personal value. So half of people were motivated because it was a value in their life.

>> And guess what? You get to choose the values you have. That's pretty cool.

>> Yeah. And if you don't like them, you can choose another one. >> I would choose generosity. So try that out. Make it a value. >> Generosity >> and then make it practical. Put it in the budget and say, "We're going to give this month." And if you're a person of faith, this should be a part of the rhythm of your life already.

>> Absolutely.

>> [music]

[music]

>> in the lobby of Ramsay. solutions on the debt-free stage. Will and Madison are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hey, great to see you guys.

>> You, too. Merry Christmas. Where do y'all live? >> Merry Christmas. We cruised with y'all in March, so we're so glad to see y'all again. >> I love it. Very fun. Where do you live?

>> Uh, Salem, North Carolina. It's about 30 minutes outside of Fort Bragg.

>> Oh, yeah. Fun. Very cool. All right. And how much debt have you guys paid off?

>> Right at $336,000.

I love it. And how long did this take?

>> Right at nine and a half years.

>> There you go. I like it. And your range of income during that time?

>> So at the start we were just under a 100,000 at 98 and then at the end we

were right at 185k.

>> Okay, cool. What do y'all do for a living? >> So I'm an Army veteran and I actually just recently took a promotion to a training manager at the world's largest diialysis provider. >> Oh, very cool. Thanks for your service.

So, I was in IT for uh 20 years. Uh I

was a web developer and then a production systems engineer and but recently I just uh started my own sports cards business. >> I like it. >> Cool. All right. And so I'm guessing 9 and a half years, 330,000 in North Carolina. You paid off your mortgage.

>> It's the house. >> YEAH. [screaming] LOOKING AT WEIRD PEOPLE.

>> Way to go, you guys. Way to go. All right. So, tell us the story. How did you get connected to Ramsay and decide to pay off your home? >> So, the connection to Ramsay started about 20 years ago. Actually, my brother Elliot, he works here at Ramsay.

>> Ah, okay.

>> I wondered why half the crew was out here. >> That's right. So, when Elliot was in the Marine Corps, he introduced our entire family to the Total Money Makeover, and it transformed all of our lives. And while I was in the army, I actually paid off my student loans, $60,000.

And I wanted to come and do my debtree scream with y'all then. But army life is a little hard to get time away sometimes. Um, so this is a huge bucket list thing for me to get to be here with my husband. Um, doing this together.

When we met and were dating, of course, we had the typical money conversations because I needed to feel that out. Mhm.

>> And when he started talking to me about how he budgets and how he lived on the

dollar menu at McDonald's when that existed and he only had this much to get through the week, I said, "Oh my gosh, do you do the Dave Ramsey plan?" And he said, "I have no idea who that is, but I

do [laughter] the BIBLE'S PLAN." [screaming] >> And I said, "That is totally the same thing. We can continue dating." >> That's [laughter] amazing. >> No offense. Big fan now.

I think Jesus I think you Jesus trump I got Jesus trumped. That's what happened. I saw that Trump card. [laughter] That's great.

>> What a flex. >> Yeah, that's definite flex. >> And then nine and a half years ago, what happened? >> So nine and a half years ago, I found my dream home and my dream man here gives me pretty much anything I want.

>> Oh, that's beautiful. If you're watching on YouTube and Spotify, she would. It's an American forquare built in 1917. It

is gorgeous. Um, it needed a few things when we moved in. So, it's the mortgage, uh, a ton of renovations that it needed and also a minivan to fit those three

little ones in. >> I lost that battle. I know the guy on earlier, he he won his I lost mine.

>> You're Yeah, that's okay. It's okay. You won overall. >> Yes. >> That's good. [laughter]

>> Wow. So you got the house and then n and but you got a plan and you guys together immediately say, "All right, how fast." So 10 years you pay off your house.

>> Yeah. The goal was to get it all done by the time we were 40 years old.

>> How old are you? >> We're both 39. >> Yeah, you did it. >> He is 2 weeks older than me. I always said I wanted to marry an older man. >> There you go. >> He's two weeks older than me. And we made that final payment on our mortgage on my 39th birthday.

>> I like it. You made it. Well,

congratulations. >> Thank you so much. Very, very well done.

All right. So, what's the house worth today?

>> It's right at like 450 grand.

>> Okay. >> We live in a very small town, so it's hard to get comps, but >> Yeah. But that's probably close. That's it's a beautiful home. And the um and your nest egg and your retirement accounts, how much have you got in there? >> So, with with everything, we're it's like 250k.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're about 800.

So, you're bumping up towards a million dollar net worth already and you're not even 40. >> Way to go, y'all. Proud of you.

>> Good work, you guys. Very good work.

How's it feel to be completely debtree?

>> I was telling her earlier on the way up here that it just feels like a weight off our chest. Um, >> you know, we we still grind. Like I said, I'd open, you know, start my own new business, but it just able to be more present with the kids and just

there at every, you know, every ball game and and there for everything. Just really, like I said, just a weight off our chest. >> Yeah. Way to go.

>> We got the kids here too, right?

>> We do. They're right. >> Wow. Now, how old are they? Cuz I'm curious where >> Bring them up and introduce them. Let's know learn their names and ages.

>> So, we have three kids. So that means I stopped keeping track of all of this after the first one or two. So uh 11,

Sergeant is 11, Pimberly is nine, and

Royal is eight. So >> very cool. >> And you cash flowed the three of them along with this journey, paying off the house and the van. >> We absolutely did. >> And I see uh Sergeant's got the straight out of baby step two shirt on, which is fantastic. >> Debtree and $1,000. He helps dad with the sports card business. They do that together. >> That's awesome. >> Way to go, you guys. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is being 40 years old 100% debtree?

>> I think a huge part of it is that age-old principle. Stop buying things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't even like.

>> Amen. Amen. Well, you guys have managed to work together very well, too.

>> Yes. Thank you.

>> Uh we're doing our giving show today.

You have any comments on generosity while you've been going through this process? We actually would love to share um a story with y'all. I'll I'll intro it and I'll let him finish it. Um my

husband has been for a long time a huge

basketball fan and a basketball coach and he coaches at a place called Falcon Christian Academy >> where the players are all from Falcon Children's Home >> and they all come from really rough backgrounds. They don't have parents or their parents aren't fit to raise them >> or their parents are in prison. and uh that is his ministry and that is where he gives back and um I'll let him take it from here kind of what we've done and what we're going to do going forward.

>> Yeah. So just we um I I run a church basketball league and we raise we have a a charity game where we raise between 1,500 to 2500 um every year. Um and and

I just say you know hey here's here's the money that the children's home can do with it whatever they may. Um we um

the kind of the the thing that started uh a fire in my heart about it was um I I live on paydays, you know, um on the road, the candy bar, sorry, the payday candy bar. [laughter] Um, and I I just was eating one day on

the on the driving the van to an away game and um the rustling of the the

candy bar just all the kids were like,

"What'd you got there?" And I was like, "Oh." They were like, "Are you going to eat that?" I was like, "Oh, no.

Apparently, apparently not." >> Yeah. Not anymore. And the just one one

of them took one payday bar and they like it was like almost like breaking bread and they shared it with with each other and I just >> I went home told her that story and tried not to get choked up. It's just that'll get it going for >> they take care you know good care of all their needs um and everything but there's just you know they're >> they don't have any luxuries. they have wants. And so, actually, on the way up here, we were organizing um to to get a

shoe drive to to get all the kids, they didn't have proper not not all of them have proper basketball shoes. So, and >> you know, one kid in particular is wearing wear having to wear size nine and he's actually an 11 cuz I gave him a pair of my shoes and he fit him perfectly. >> I used to work at a shoe store a long time ago. I was like, "Oh, that works." >> Wow. And but just that we just do

different things with with Falcon Christian Academy. >> And now you don't have a house payment, so you can do whatever you want. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Amen. >> All right. >> Congratulations, you guys. Very proud of y'all. Well done. Well done, Will and

Madison, Sergeant Pimberly, and Royal right outside of Fort Bragg. 336,000 paid off in 9 and a half years, MAKING 100 TO 185. HOUSE AND EVERYTHING.

THEY'RE WEIRD.

They're debtree. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. >> Got it. >> In three, two, one.

>> We're debtree.

>> YEAH. [cheering]

[laughter] >> I love it.

>> It's like [music] some kids are getting some new shoes this Christmas along with some payday bars >> in Jesus name. I love it. Well done.

Well done.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Yeah. Our scripture of the day, Luke 2:7-9. [music] And she gave birth to her firstborn son.

And she wrapped him in clothes and laid him in a manger because there was no room for them in the end. And there were shepherds out in the field keeping watch by night, and an angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them.

Billy Graham said, "The very purpose of Christ coming into the world was that he might offer up his life as a sacrifice for the sins of men. He came to die."

This is the heart of Christmas.

They just handed me our debt-free screams for the year. This year we had 84 people do a debt-free scream in the

lobby here on the debt-free stage totaling 20 million 363762.

>> Wow. >> 363,762.

So 20 million3 20.3 million. And uh

that's that's a lot just that's just right here on the stage. >> That's just the ones we actually had come stand on the stage. We know there's many more out there who became debtree this year following the principles. And uh I'm inspired. Every dollar we had 3.5

billion in dollars saved and dollars paid. Money

saved and debt paid. Just the people using every dollar. 3.5 billion changing position this year. >> That is wild. >> So it's hard to wrap. >> We actually failed. We were trying to get four billion and we didn't make it.

But we'll make it next year. So it's okay. >> I hate it. I hate it when we fail like that. Well, if everyone used every dollar and used it accurately, reported the numbers, we'd be uh we'd be there.

So, easy. >> Enter your numbers in every dollar so we can track it. It's really fun. >> Yeah. Come on, people. >> We want to celebrate you. [laughter] >> It's our annual giving show. Britney's in Wisconsin. Hi, Britney. Merry Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Hi, Dave. George, thanks for taking my call. I'm excited to tell you the story.

>> Sure. >> So, earlier this year, we um had some

changes in our financial situation.

You're break you're breaking up. You had some changes in your financial situation and then what?

>> Yep. And then um all of our side hustling was just to kind of break even.

So we were we were in the red for expenses to income ratio. And so at that

time cash flowing a vehicle just wasn't possible. Um, so one of our friends who

is now premob to go serve our country,

he gifted us his truck. Um, and

technically, um, it was just for whatever we were able to sell our broken

down beater for. So, it was a very, very, very generous trade. It's a very nice truck. We're driving it down to Chicago this weekend and we have no worries in the world.

It's very reliable. It's got heated seats. It's awesome. >> Wow.

Wow. >> Yeah. Very very thankful for that. And then um shortly after that, my car completely totaled itself.

It broke down. And so my father-in-law, my husband's father, he retired. And so he had his daily driver left over and he gifted us that as well. So now we are a two vehicle family.

nights ago here in Wisconsin, it was -15

in the morning and I started it up. That car ripped on the first try. So, it's

we're very thankful to have two working vehicles. >> Amen. Amen. Yeah, that's a big deal. And

I'm thankful that people are in your life that looked up and saw it and said, "Hey, we can help." >> Yep. >> Yeah. That's a big deal. >> That awesome. >> Amen. Britney, thanks for sharing that.

That's a big That's awesome. Very, very cool. >> It's amazing how a car can change your life. Get you from A to B reliably.

>> What a cool. >> It's come up a lot today.

>> Yeah. >> Sometimes we have more car stories than others, but today was a lot of car stories. forget how life-changing that can be. >> Carrie is in Delaware. Hi, Carrie. Merry Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Merry Christmas, uh Dave and George.

Thank you so much for having me. Um my husband and I, we have followed your plan since 2012, and we are debtree. And

over the years, we've tried to model um generosity for our daughters. We have three girls. Um, and a couple weeks ago, our youngest daughter, who is 16, who's a junior in high school, um, started telling us about how one of the band members, um, in her marching band, her sister who's 20, was just recently diagnosed with cancer.

>> And that the there was an upcoming band trip, which they have every year, and the students in the leadership of the marching band were kind of putting together, scraping money together to help with the next installment of the band payment that was due. And so I was

I was really impressed. My husband and I are listening and like I look at my husband, I'm like I asked how much the next payment was and she said $300. And I said, "What if we just paid it and made it like a secret Santa and you guys you could just take it in?" And my daughter was like happy but not shocked.

She was like, "That would be so amazing." And I was like, "Yeah." So couple days went by, my husband came home from work. He had stopped at a local hardware store and while he was at the register, the cashier was putting a collection bucket out for the sister who was sick.

my daughter was excited um she had actually used some of her own money and paid for u made a donation to the GoFundMe for the sister that's sick so long story short I emailed you guys told you about the story I was really impressed by all these kids and like my daughter just the spirit of you know giving and then Mon Monday after I emailed the show my daughter called me from school. She had gone in to go pay the balance. And the band teacher was so impressed. And then he said, "Actually, it's been taken care of with all the generosity of the kids coming up with their money." And my daughter was like, she said to me, "It's already been taken care of.

Could we just donate for groceries for a month?" And I said, "Absolutely." So, they're going to do a little Christmas party tomorrow night for the her um friend and the marching man, and they're going she's going to give her like a still a secret Santa thing, but this way groceries will be taken care of. Um, so the girl can go on the trip, she has spending money and the family will be able to not have to worry about um, you know, the trip cost of the trip but also groceries for a month. So, >> um, and I said this is the whole this is the whole point of like doing this is that like because after the first time my daughter said it to us, my husband's like this is why we're following this so that when we're not here someday, our kids can continue to be generous, you know, and it doesn't have to be always like a monetary thing.

You talk about holding the door for people and just smiling and being kind. And that's why, you know, that's that's our goal as parents is that when we're not here anymore, our parent our, you know, kids will like continue the legacy and just be good people. So, >> absolutely, they'll pay they'll pay it forward. Way to go, Carrie.

>> Kurt is IN VENICE, ITALY. WOW. Merry

Christmas. Tell us your giving story.

>> Hi guys. Hi guys. Dave George, I'll be real quick. Another grocery story. I'm over in Italy. My wife's always wanted to be here. So, here we are. We're at the grocery store. We go to check out.

There's a gentleman in front of us. You could tell he had just come from work.

You know, he was all decked out. Went to pay for his groceries. Didn't have any luck. His debit card didn't work.

He pulled out another one. Didn't work. Got real nervous. Asked if he could run outside real quick to find his wife.

So, he did. And we're kind of all watching him. And everybody's kind of accumulating at the checkout and everybody's getting nervous. So, my wife and I are like, "We'll just pay for his groceries.

Let's just take care of that." So, we did. Then, we took care of ours. Then we ran his groceries out to him. All right.

Obviously, the guy was very appreciative. Everybody in line was appreciative. Here's where it gets really good. Couple days later, we get a call from my daughter.

She's in Park City, Utah.

She had a new used phone that she got from her father-in-law, and she went to pay for her groceries. Two little kiddos in in tow. Her her Apple Pay hadn't been

entered in her phone yet. Okay, this is like 2 days later. Dave and George didn't work. She didn't have her debit card on her. She didn't have enough cash. The guy in back of her insisted on

paying for her groceries. We paid $22

for the gentleman's groceries. This gentleman behind my daughter two days later, $160.

>> My daughter was absolutely in tears. But can you believe we do it here? Didn't tell a soul. Two days later, my daughter

has the exact same experience and the guy behind her steps up and purchases her groceries. Like, what a great story.

>> I absolutely can believe that. So, I absolutely can believe that. Wow. Way to go. Very >> just a little God nod there.

>> Amen. >> That's really neat. >> Well, guys, remember the greatest gift of all was Christmas when God sent his only begotten son.

Yeah. He came to die for our sins.

Remember that.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ

Jesus.

[music]

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## 168. The Best Financial Plans Don’t Rely On Debt | May 27, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, Ramsey Personality, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Lynn is in Los Angeles. Hi, Lynn. How are you?

>> I'm fine, thank you. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Perfect. Um, I'm 77, retired, and I

about 10 years ago, I took out a reverse mortgage on my home that was paid for, but of course now I owe that. And it's about $98,000 and racking up interest, of course, every month. Astronomical. And I don't use it. I haven't used it probably in in in right after I first got it. And um

>> by use it, you haven't been sorry. By using it, you mean you haven't been receiving the payments? >> I haven't been taking funds out. No, at all. Uhuh. One time I think I did.

>> Well, for a while to get it off to 90,00.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, what is the interest rate on this ridiculous mess?

>> Oh, I think it's about six something 6%.

And I I know the interest. I when I look at the um the statement, it's about $500

and some dollars a month. It seems like now >> that'd be about right. >> So that's like Yeah, that's kind of killing me. Um but I don't know what to

do. I have a a traditional IRA with

about $230,000 in it >> and I also have a high yield savings account with about $80,000 in it. Mhm.

>> I'm very reluctant to use my high yield savings account to at least pay a portion of it off because I just like having that security of knowing that money is there. And I was wondering if I used my traditional IRA, would the taxes

kill me?

>> You'll have taxes on it, but you won't have any penalty. Um what um what other

nest egg do you have? Is that it? Your total your total balance? about another 15,000 in just my regular savings account. >> What are you living on?

>> I have retirement social security and um a teacher's retirement. >> Okay, cool. So, how much a month do you have coming in?

>> About $4,500 >> and you live on that?

>> Yes. >> And you're in Los Angeles?

>> Yeah, Len, do you have >> But I have no debt. I have no debt other than that reverse mortgage. Yeah. Do what margin do you have per month? Like out of the 4,500, how much is left after

you have all your living expenses?

>> Oh gosh, probably

um well, my son and daughter-in-law live with me and they they chip in and everything, so I probably have about you know um 28 $3,000 left by at the end of

the month. When we share expenses.

>> Okay. What's the What's the home worth?

probably about 850,000.

>> Okay. So, at the tune of 6,000 So,

basically the $6,000 a year in interest

is just being added to it.

>> That's right. >> So, it's just chipping away at So, if we did that for if we did that for 10 years, you'd be 87. If we did it for 20 years, you'd be uh 97,

>> right? >> Okay. And that would still only be $120,000.

Oh, it' be more than that because interest is gonna be on the interest, but it'd be 150,000 more. And so at that

point, you're going to have um $350,000

owed on whatever that property is worth 20 years from today.

>> Right. >> It doesn't bother me. I'm going to let it sit there.

>> You would. Now, the other thing is though, what if something happens and I have to say move in with my daughter?

Technically, I'm with a reverse mortgage. I have to live in that house.

So, then I'd have to sell it. Exactly.

That would be my other the only other option. >> Exactly. And you probably would do that anyway.

If you had a paid $4 million house and you moved in with your daughter, you probably wouldn't keep the paid $4 million house.

>> Okay. So, your suggestion would be just

I'm going to let it ride. If you told me doing what it's doing. >> Yeah. If you told me you had another three or 400,000 laying around somewhere, I would use a hundred of it and pay it off for peace of mind only.

But I I don't want to take you down by a

h 100red grand from $310,000 worth of

money. >> What do you think?

>> I guess I'm a little shocked just to say to keep it, but as as you go out the math Well, and especially since you're not working, Lynn, and my thing is too,

even with the with the margin though per month, you're still not going to it's going to take a while to get to. >> You know what the other thing is? You could do this. You could you could do what you're talking about. I see where you're going already. um you could take like 50,000 of your 80, throw it at it

and um then take it run over to the

credit union and get a loan and pay off that loan out of your margin in a couple of years and you'll be back to debtree in two or three four years.

>> I could do that. I could also I also thought I thought about doing the 50,000 out of my uh high yield and then also

maybe 50,000 out of my

um >> you could but that's going to cost you 20% or 10 15% or something more than the

interest at the credit union >> and I I probably would nibble at it um

and say $1,000 a month for 50 months and

be done that way or 40 months or something like that. Yeah, >> I got you. You could do $1,000 a month.

>> And also, if I paid it down even by $50,000, the interest wouldn't be obviously that much.

>> Well, your payment per month, yeah, would be less, right? >> Yeah. It's just going to acrue at whatever the balance is. But if you ran over to the credit union and got just a simple little loan and, you know, on a four-year note or something, you probably would pay off >> because a credit union interest rate would be >> lower, >> three, four.

>> Yeah. No, probably five right now. But, um, somewhere in there. I mean, it just ask them what they would loan $50,000 on a million-doll house.

Oh my gosh.

And um but >> yeah, but are they going to consider the there? Well, I guess >> I I want I want a ridiculously good interest rate and no closing cost is what I want if I'm you. But that's an idea. You could explore that with them

and then you could pay it off and >> Well, because the grand sitting there, Lynn, technically I look at that as your emergency fund, right? And if you did >> three or six months of that, it would it would not add up >> to 80 grand. >> Yeah. You got you got some extra there.

>> Yes. So, even if you left 30 and threw 50 at it, like what you were saying, I think that gives you plenty of room to be there. >> All All we're doing there is not solving a financial crisis because you don't have one. We're solving an aggravation.

You do have that. And um we're solving,

as Dr. John Deloney says, we're solving for peace. And so I love the idea of you

being 80 and zero debt on this house because it's aggravating you so much that you called us.

>> Well, in your home, it's the it's a there's a safety net there. There's something to be said when you own it outright, >> especially in your 80s.

>> Yes. Yes. that if you don't get, you know, if you get in trouble or something. And the good thing is too, Len, regardless of which way you, you know, you slice it or you do it is is the value of the home now, um, so

outweighs everything. So even if you did have a crisis and you did have to sell for something, you know, you still have a good amount of equity. >> Hundreds and hundreds of thousands. Yeah. Yeah. You're in good shape. So yeah, this is a um, >> it's a bad product, though. You see it on cable news. >> Yeah. >> Reverse mortgages, walk-in bathtubs.

Stay away, people. Stay away.

>> If you're buying your financial products where they sell Snuggies and walk-in bathtubs, you have a problem. Yeah.

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>> Eddie's in Denver. Hey Eddie, what's up in your world?

>> Thank you for taking my call. Appreciate it. >> Certainly.

Um, so I had a I I'm third generation on

a in a family business. We farm and ranch. Uh, in 2018, my dad got real sick

and uh stepped up to the plate and bought bought everybody out and just me and my wife run the place now.

>> Wow. >> Um, how did you do that?

>> I have

with no sleep. Uh, frankly, a lot of

hard work.

>> Yeah. Yeah. How much How much do you owe on the ranch?

Well, that's I owe nothing as of uh last November. >> Wow. You got it all paid off.

>> Yeah. Uh might be the luckiest person

you've talked to, Dave.

>> How much was it for? >> A little over five and a five and a quart million. >> Wow. Good for you.

>> Way to go, Eddie. >> Just a few things kind of fell in my lap and we took advantage and um like I said, just a lot of luck and I've got a really good partner on my side. My wife is fantastic.

Yeah. >> Um, >> sounds like you worked a lot. It's not like you worked to create luck. I like it.

>> I don't No, I think it's just luck on my end. But anyways, I I got got everything

paid off and now we're stepping into a

different season here and uh I have a neighbor place that connects straight to us and it's it's a good place. We've

farmed and ranched next to each other for three generations and they don't have anybody in line and they came to me here last month and asked if I was interested and and I am. I am interested. And the reason I am is I've got two little boys. Uh they're pretty young. They're seven and four and I got a nephew 21 male. All three someday I

hope will work for me. I don't want to play anybody's life, but that's the goal. And to do that, I would need to uh grow the place a little bit. And this would be a heck of an opportunity for me. >> Yeah. Sound sounds good. Even if you were just building a business to sell it, which you're pro, you got so much um

family emotion in this one, you're probably not doing that. But even, you know, it sounds like an opportunity to grow the business, period. So, what's the place going to cost?

>> Uh upfront's going to cost 4.65. Um

>> what's upront mean?

>> Uh well, that's what they want is 4.65, 65, but they've got a residence on it that I'm uninterested in owning. Um, and I've talked to two real estate agents and that and 40 acres should bring a little over a million and a quarter. And then there's another uh quarter section that is detached that I'm uninterested in owning and that should bring right around 380 to 400,000.

>> Mhm. >> So, be about a million. >> So, you you came up with five and a quarter. How fast to pay off your debt?

uh 2018 to now.

>> Okay. So, you did that in um >> eight years. >> In eight years. >> Eight. Eight years. Yes.

>> Okay. All right. And now now >> and little sleep with a lot of luck is what you kept pushing to. >> I understand. Understand. So, I I don't

borrow money for anything, particularly

for business, because it doesn't always work out the way this last one worked out for you.

I'm proud of you. I'm glad you got out, but I don't want to sign up again for the hell you just got out of. But I do want this piece of property. So, how do we do this? So, the way Dave does it, um

I bought a uh an office building many

many years ago for 5 million and uh I

didn't have two nickels to rub together at the moment, but I was making really good money like you've been doing. you've got uh more than two nickels, but

um I leased that building with a 5-year

option to purchase it for 5 million and I closed on it at the

5year mark. It took that I mean I scratched every nickel out of the corner of the couch, right? To to get to get do that. Um the good news is by the time I closed on it, it was worth 13 million.

So it was a great deal, right?

>> But I didn't have any debt. >> Yes. And I didn't have to close on it if

crap went sideways.

And welcome to agriculture, right? Crap goes sideways. >> Yes. >> And so uh we cannot predict this rain and sunshine thing. We cannot predict,

you know, disease and everything else that you guys deal with that are the the um >> Yeah. What do you do on the land, Eddie?

Specifically, is it farm? You said ranching. Like what's what is it specifically? >> We we run cattle mainly. Yeah. Cattle.

>> So, yeah. Beef prices. Hello. Can we Can we spell volatile? Yeah.

>> And And so, um, you know, if I'm you, I'm going to talk to them. How much cash could you scrape together to pay them for a right to buy it for five years? Could you give them a

half million dollars?

>> Yes. >> Without going in debt?

>> Yes. >> Okay. How much could you give them now?

cash probably a million and a quarter.

But that'd leave me with >> No, I don't want you poor. I'm just asking how much cash you got. Okay. I'm not I'm not suggesting that. But my point is, okay, so we need four

if we turn if we turn around. So here you could you could if you don't want to borrow money and I don't want to borrow money. So that's how I'm trying to figure this out. Okay. You're probably going to go do it the old way if you uh but because you got away with it the last time you did it. Okay. But if you did it my way, a way to do it would be to option it and line up the sale of the

two pieces of property >> to simultaneously close the day you close to buy it.

So that gets your need all the way down to under $3 million.

>> Yes. >> And you've got a million of that.

>> You don't want to put it all in there today, but that's the number. So we need So I need two million bucks. So, what am how fast am I going to come up with that? Oh, a three-year or a 5-year option, and I give you 500k to be applied to the purchase price, and I'm going to rent it from you for a maximum of five years. And as soon as I can scrape the money together, we're going to close on it. But I don't want to borrow money.

And you talk to that old ranch that's four generations, and he's going to understand, I don't want to borrow money.

>> Understood. >> They want their money now, but they can understand you saying that.

If you could talk them into giving a half million dollars now and a threeyear or fiveyear option and you scrape together the other two, two and a half, you line up simultaneous closings on the other two parcels off the and you close on all of it the same day. You're your actual cash need is not that high and you're going to get there. >> Well, and for them, if you really did that, that's 1.8 that you pay them with the other properties selling. >> Yeah.

And then you throw in, you know, even if you threw in 200,000, it's two million bucks that they may get on closing day, right?

>> No, they're going to get their whole four million on closing day. 4.6.

>> The buy the seller next door.

>> Yeah. >> We're going to give them 4.6 the day you close on it. >> But you're closing in five years.

>> Sometime between now and five years.

Yeah. And >> No, but I'm saying can you can he parcel out now and put and sell some of those properties? Go ahead now and let them sell. >> No, you can't sell off. You can't sell off. Oh, let them sell them off. Yeah, they be fine if they sold off and then it takes it down for what you owe them.

>> Yeah, you if you guys want some of your money today, that's a good idea. >> Well, because they want the cash is what you're saying. >> Yeah. If they want some of their cash today, they could go ahead and get almost 2 million of it now.

>> You know, whatever the whatever the 408 40 and then the backtrack that you don't want. Yeah. Whatever the total of that is, let them go ahead and do that.

>> And uh I do want this, but this is what the net net's going to be. And yeah, that that that actually puts half the money in their pocket now if they sell off those tracks. >> Yep. Which is what I just said about 45 seconds ago. Thank you.

>> I'm I'm catching up with you. Took me a minute. It's what happens when I'm not on the air for a while. >> I know, Dave. You're great, though. >> I'm running slow. >> No, you're not. The mind is sharp.

>> Very interesting deal. >> The mind is sharp. >> Here's the thing. >> You love a puzzle, though. A real estate puzzle is what you love. And what I love is when you take debt as an option off

the table, now you got to figure out a way to do it. >> And now your now your creativity kicks in. Now you start to think, okay, I could get the neighbor to sell off or I could sell it off or I could simultaneous closings or I could do options. I can do but if I'm just unwilling to borrow money >> and I don't have the money, how am I going to figure this out? And so the,

you know, the way we've grown Ramsey, I mean, we've got a,000 people working in this building and, uh, 300 million a year in revenue. 100% the way we just

talked about, we have in every case used

the profits from something we were doing

here to start a new something we were doing here. And the profits from that starts the things for drives the next thing. and um >> which takes a lot more work and a lot more patience and some frustration, but

so much more peace, right? Cuz at the end of it, there's no risk >> and it's sustainable. Yeah. Nobody's no banker is going to come and screw you over. And believe me, it's like their full-time job.

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Claire is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Claire. How are you?

>> Good. How are you all? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

So my question to you is just how do I

continue to honor my parents biblically um if they are dishonorable especially when it comes to financial matters.

>> They're dishonorable meaning they're not great with money. What they do with money you don't agree with.

>> Well so I'm assisting but they say all

kinds of things to me that are just to me not dis I'm not honorable as parents and I'm trying to still honor them biblically. >> Okay. Biblically to honor someone is not to honor everything they do. It's to honor the position of parenthood. We

honor our father and our mother so that

we we may live long in the land. Okay, to quote Old Testament, right? And so we want to honor but we but if mom's doing cocaine, we don't honor the cocaine >> or she's being verbally abusive to in other words, if she's misbehaving. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, we don't honor misbehavior, >> but we but we do honor the position. So, the same would be true where we're called biblically to um honor our

leaders and pray for our leaders. So,

you know, I didn't agree with much of anything Joe Biden did, but I honored the position he held as president and I prayed for him as a person. But I don't have to agree with any of his policies to do that. It's the same thing. you honor the position, not the

>> and and that's got to do with your nobility and your dignity. Um, but that

does not mean you are enabling or allowing uh ridiculous, you know,

interactions.

And so, >> okay. >> Yeah. Just if you you get above that and go, you know, I honor, you know, you can honor fatherhood and have never met your father. Claire, um what's what what is

it currently your relationship dynamic?

Because are you taking care of them financially? What's going on?

>> Yes. So, my um my mom lives overseas, so

I was financially taking care of them uh taking care of her. Um in terms of just

like helping out monthly. Um, but it got

to a point where I was overextending myself too much and I fell back into a

lot of debt that I thankfully was able to pay off by just hustling um for the last couple of months with work and picking up as much overtime as possible.

But >> and I still owe a little bit more um because I still have to pay for some things that I shipped overseas to her that have landed. But we I talked to her today and she got frustrated at me because I had to cut off some things financially cuz it just was not in my means anymore. >> And um she said some some very hurtful things to me that I know is not true to my character. But >> I just and I it was not right.

I yelled at her and I got upset because of what she was saying to me. And you know I I prayed about it and I repented and then I sent her a text but she blocked me.

you know you're trying to be generous and kind and helping her right from with the financial support monthly. So, it's more just about boundaries, Claire, and you having integrity within yourself to say this, I still feel good about this action of taking care of because you may, right? She may be horrible to you, but I don't know what her living situation is, and maybe you think, I still want to be able to make sure that she's good, and that's the route you want to take. Then maybe from the relationship perspective is where the boundaries have to be.

Maybe you look up and you're like, I I can't have a relationship anymore and I don't feel good financially, maybe because of your numbers or just because of the whole situation. Um, right, >> with whatever you decide. So, um, yeah, the the thing that happens is when we're

helping someone, um, entitlement can set

in. And she felt she felt entitled

to your money.

And when you said, "I'm not able to do that for whatever reason." It was as if you took her money away from her because she already owned it in her mind. That's what entitlement means.

>> Okay? She feels like she already owned your money and like you stole it back from her. And that can be compounded and made even worse by uh cultural norms.

What country is she in?

>> West Africa. >> Yeah, for sure. Cultural norms are at

play in this, right?

>> Because it's it's much more normal there

for generations to take care of each other, even if they go broke doing that, which is dysfunctional. than it would be

uh in in uh in America where we have where we're very compartmentalized from our extended family and that's a cultural norm here not one's not right one's not wrong it's just norm because you know that there has its roots in just sheer survival this idea that I'm that you take care of your mom you take care of your kid you take care of your auntie you know you take care >> even well yeah and yeah you could look at all different cultures right and families living together, multigenerational, all of it. But um okay, so going forward, Claire, what's your gut?

What are you what are you thinking? >> So moving forward, my thing was to just I told her I said, "I cannot help for a while because I have to get financially stable and I can't help you if I cannot help myself first." That's right. um to get on a proper footing and she seemed like she understood but at the end of the day I really come down to I don't think she understood really because it's it's hard for her to comprehend that the the more I try to explain my financial situation to her the more she thinks oh well you make this much money then you should be able to help me with this much.

her so much about it. Um, but so I sent

her some things overseas that should help her for the next 6 months to a

year. Like I I and that's what put me in debt because I I I spent a lot of money on things that I knew would be beneficial to her for her to sell and make money over there. So, and I told

her the reason why she's upset at me is because I told her I cannot transport the things from the dock to your house cuz she lives 3 hours away from the port. I said, "You have to figure out a way or I can talk to the shipper to um

maybe like work something out where you can go get it little by little." And she's just like, "Oh, you left me in a bind and my husband's not working." And I'm and I'm like, "Okay, well, excuse my stepdad." But I'm like, "It's not I didn't make him not work." So, I I didn't know how to respond to that. And I just like got so mad because she he kept on telling me, you know, "Oh, you're you're good for nothing. Like, you don't help me out. You put me in a bind.

You're doing this." I'm like in my mind, I'm like, "Wow." Okay. So, I just start started yelling. I'm like, "I have feelings, too." you know, and it's not fair to me. And she's like, "It is fair to you.

didn't want to yell at her. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's Yeah. Uh, is that a pattern though with your relationship?

Did that Did that shock you that she responded like that or >> It did It did not shock me honestly. It was just more of like a Twitch instant response just because of >> all that's been going on. But it did not shock me. I was not like upset in a sense, but I was more hurt by what she said.

two areas that you need to clarify in your mind, your boundaries. And you may want to sit down with your pastor or somebody and discuss it. You need to clarify your relational boundaries as to what I'm what am I willing to let someone that I love say to me?

am I, you know, Mom, I'm not going to have this discussion. If you're going to raise your voice, we'll have to talk another time. If you're going to cuss at me, we're going to have to talk another time. Okay? And just hang up. And uh

when you you know I'll talk to you as long as we can talk reasonably. We can disagree, but we're not going to be disagreeable. And and that's one set of boundaries. And the second set of boundaries is what amount of money is reasonable.

You putting yourself in debt does not make sense to do this. So that's not that's unreasonable. But if you're going to ship goods over there, um you need to think about how you're going to get them to her. Um you know, the three-hour gap is a bit of a problem on your end.

So, how I mean, how'd you how'd you think that was going to work? I don't know why it would work. It shouldn't work. So, you probably should have gotten them all the way to her doorstep or not done the whole shipping of goods thing.

So, um, yeah. So, I Yeah, you set your

financial boundaries and your relational boundaries, and they should be two different. They're not tied together. My financial boundaries aren't tied to my relational boundaries. I can have a quality relationship and give no money.

I can give a lot of money and not tolerate misbehavior that they can they don't have to go together. But uh but for sure those things but that what this does it puts you just completely into a tornado and it's it it hurts. It hurts.

And um so yeah, just back up and

deescalate and reset what you are

willing to do. And then the next time you approach a conversation, what am I willing to do with the way we talk about things, our relationship? What am I willing to do >> financially financially?

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Jessica is with us in Los Angeles. Hi, Jessica. How are you?

>> Hi. Hi. I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, well, I wanted to ask you guys a question. Um, a little background. I'm 32 years old and I am an attorney in LA

County. Uh, I've been working hard to save up for my retirement and, you know, investments and all that. and I've been in a long-term relationship for about 3 years with my partner who's 41. And marriage is on the horizon.

And I just kind of I had I had my sus suspicions, but I recently found out that or confirmed that he doesn't have any investment accounts or like retirement accounts. And so this really concerned me and I just wanted to some insight from you guys about, you know, how big of a red flag is this? You know, can he catch up?

even being concerned about this at all?

So, just really wanted your insight.

>> Wow. >> Do you know why, Jessica, that he has no retirement?

>> Uh, I asked and um kind of the common

responses might be like, you know, well, I was just planning to work my whole life, which it's like you don't have that choice, right? You could get injured or have a disability. um other other things were like you know I haven't had benefits in the past maybe working for smaller employers he's a sole proprietor now so it's just kind of a mix of >> what does he make >> uh I don't know exactly um >> it's three years you need to know >> I know I know I I I think approximately probably gross 100 to 150 that would be that's kind of my guess he told me once >> g gross is not net I mean what's his taxable incomes what I'm is he making 30 grand and trying to live in Uh I I know I should know that, but I I don't because you know he he recently went out on his own and so >> um when you kind of start your own business, year one is you know zero pretty much.

>> No. >> If the reason that you want to know is because you're greedy and all about money, then yes, you would be superficial. But if the reason you want to know and the reason you want a plan in place is because the way we handle money is indicative of our emotional,

>> psychological, spiritual maturity and our character is reflected in how we handle money then yes this is of great concern. >> Yeah. And I the reason why I felt and

this might come from a selfish place, but I couldn't help but feel like all this time that I've you know the money that I've responsibly saved in multiple accounts and whatever um I couldn't help

but feel like it would be a subsidy for someone else. And I know the whole, you know, once you're married, you're one. I totally understand that. But you can't help but feel like maybe your retirement quality of life would go down because >> Yes. But I think you would feel different, Jessica, if we painted a little bit of a dramatic picture. But if his parents were sick and he was their

caretaker and like did all this and didn't have the margin to save for retirement, but he was telling you at 45 this is his plan. You know what I mean?

Like if there was like a effort for the

reason why and a good reason, I don't think you would feel like that. I think you'd be like, "God, you are a good man and you you're going to be a really great husband and I'm excited to partner with you." It wouldn't feel like a subsidy if what he was doing was >> if you're subsidizing if you're subsidizing I really don't want a plan and I kind of just want to work for myself even though I make half of what I would make working for somebody else.

And u you know all of this screams lack of ambition, lack of you know and >> well lack of lack of planning and and forethought. And when you go into a relationship with someone, >> right, a long-term lifelong >> and they don't have uh the ability to think >> far out in the future and and monetarily of just taking care of >> it's not a deal killer. It's not a deal killer, but it is not superficial for you to be concerned either because what it's indicative of.

>> And so what is what is what's the source that's driving his lack of doing it?

because you're, you know, and we could go on the other side and go, are you obsessed with money and all you do is think about retirement and I don't want to live with somebody like that, you know, and no, we don't want to go that way either, right? But but this idea that that we're we're solving for peace again to quote Dr. John Deloney, which we do over and over, I'm afraid. But um yeah, I'm solving for peace. I'm Why am I saving for retirement? So I can eat.

That's solving for peace. >> Yeah. And if I don't have a partner that's going to be >> not even equal dollar amount but equal effort, you know what I mean? In that

>> uh yeah, that's equal. And it's not a, you know, >> a woman versus man thing. I think the opposite would be the same. If a guy called and said, "Yeah, she has nothing.

She hasn't really thought about it.

>> She I'd be like, golly, what is what is she doing?" Like, you know what I mean? It's >> I want to be a kept woman.

>> That's an old phrase. Some of y'all have to look that one up. >> I will. I will at the break. >> There you go. >> Kelly doesn't know either.

>> Well, again, it's someone who doesn't do anything and is being taken care of.

>> Yeah. >> Kept. >> Yes. >> You know, that's the that's the definition. That's an old >> And that's not a stay-at-home mom. I No,

I know. I hear the >> say not earning income. I didn't say that. I said doesn't do anything.

>> Yes. That's it. That's it. Not allowed.

Yes. >> Your mother's a full-time mom for 40 years. She's anything but kept. >> Yes. That's right. I'll just tell you that. Don't even put that word near her.

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And Rachel, I I think the later people

get married, and they're getting married later and later and later, >> the more this type of discussion comes up. >> 100%. Yeah. >> Two broke 21 year olds don't have this issue. >> Mhm. >> You know, they're like, "Game on. Here we go. Whatever it is, let's go." you know, and uh saddle up, right?

>> Yeah. And and it's it's worthy of the discussion because if you built, you know, definitely because if you've built a life and you've worked hard on something and you have had a set of principles financially through your 20s, even your early, you know, your 30s, whatever that is timeline wise for you, and then you choose to get married to someone, you you have built a substantial life over, you know, one to two decades of working. And it's and I do think it it would be easier to merge

and mold those two lives when your values are the same. But when you're coming at it so separately and your results have been so different over the same amount of working time or hers even I mean he's 10 years older than her, you know, and he has nothing and she's 10 years, you know, the last caller.

>> You know what I mean? Like that's that's where the that that's the hard part that that is that's the tension point. Um because it it reveals it reveals who you are and what kind of partner you're going to be. Yeah.

Ratio-wise of income to savings, >> there should be some kind of something going on. >> Yes. >> So, not dollar amount to maybe it's not about the money amount and it's not about uh I'm going to measure your value based on your bank account. That's not it at all.

But we are saying what created that.

And are those character qualities attractive >> or uh are they going to cause you to become bitter out of lack of respect?

>> Yes. Resentment of what they're doing.

Yeah. >> Yeah. If you lose respect, right after that comes resentment. >> Yep. >> And so um you know, okay, I really like him. He's, you know, he's he's a lot of fun and all that, but but I don't respect him. >> That's that doesn't play long. >> That's right. Yeah. But but if it's something as simple as uh I've got to address this cuz I'm afraid it could go to that. That's okay.

>> Mhm. >> And you go before we go forward with marriage, I've got we got to be on the same page with this. And I I I want to be able to respect your effort. Yes.

>> Respect your forethought, your maturity.

>> Uh and um if we can't do that, that is going to that's going to be a deal killer, not the fact that there's no money. >> That's right. Absolutely. No, I totally agree. >> That is that's a deal breaker. And uh that's really tough when you've been in something for 3 years and you're 31 or 32 and you're an attorney. >> Yes. And also knowing people's values can change. We get the question a lot. Should I marry someone with debt? And we're like, >> yes, >> yes, you can marry someone with debt.

But what is their value around that subject? >> Should you marry someone that wants to stay in debt forever? No.

>> If you want to be out, >> not if you want to be out. You're going to be pissed off your whole life. >> That's going to be hard, >> you know. So people can can change their values, right, with what the decisions you make. And that's that's the beautiful thing. There's redemption in it, right? It's not like who you were at 21 has to be who you are forever. Thank God. >> Um Yep. But but it is it is it's a more

weightier discussion with people getting married later. You're exactly right. Cuz you have built a coming up more >> a life. You know, >> we're getting it here on the air more. The questions coming in here.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Randy

is with us in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Hi, Randy. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm going to try to keep this as quick as possible. My husband and I have a varying income and recently sold one rental property, but now we're questioning whether that was the right move. We still own a duplex that cash flows, and we're also going through probate with an inherited home. We could potentially sell both pro properties, pay off around 225,000 in debt, and fly

through almost all of the baby steps besides retirement savings. Or should we keep them for long-term wealth building and cash flow?

>> Okay. So, you own currently two properties that are rented. Did I understand that right?

>> We have a duplex and both sides are rented. We just >> But the the other home the other home you you said co what did you say?

>> It'll be an inherited home and it's it's

not rented or anything right now. We're just starting probate.

>> Oh, so someone passed away >> to be rent. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Who who passed away?

>> My husband's mom in March. Okay.

>> And so you're going to inherit her home and you're going to do what with it?

Well, we don't know if we should rent it. There currently is about 40,000 in

debt on DSA. So, the home is worth

around 150,000, but we would have to pay

the, you know, 40,000 to keep it.

>> Yeah. Was that a child? Was that his childhood home?

>> No. >> Okay. All right. And the duplex, does it have debt on it?

>> It does. >> How much? It's about So, it's a little

confusing because we have two properties tied up in one mortgage and we did just sell an old older home that my husband

lived in. We sold that and it didn't knock our mortgage down. Um, all in all, for our house on 40 acres and that duplex, we only owe around

180,000. >> The duplex is on the same piece of property as your home.

>> No, it's in the same town, though. It's very >> in the same note. >> Are they they have one mortgage on the two of them?

>> Yep. >> I'm sorry.

>> Yes, they do. >> Okay. All right. So, 180 blanket mortgage across two pieces of property.

One of them is your home and one of them is the duplex. And then the inherited home has 40,000. And the 200 and something,000 in debt is what

>> is the is both our current properties,

my car, and some consumer debt.

Okay. So, it's the 180 plus the 40 is

220 >> plus a car, >> right?

>> Nope. It's around altogether 225.

>> Okay. >> For all debt. >> How much is the car?

>> The car is I'm around it's around 28,000

and I'm about 5 to 10 underwater depending. I've had it for sale since

summer of last year and it's not selling. I even have it undervalued.

>> No, you don't. Or it would have sold.

The um >> my bank told me not to sell it for for um I had it listed for 22,000 and the bank told me it's worth 24 and I'd be silly to sell it. >> Yeah, bankers don't bankers don't get to advise me on finance.

They're just where I keep money. Um the

um last thing you want to ask is a

banker about debt. That's like asking a dog if it's hungry. And so um so what is

your household income?

>> It varies. So my husband works full-time. He doesn't make much. He makes around $20 an hour. I stay at home with my baby, but I do work on weekends.

I bartend. So it it's all over the board. >> How are you paying all these bills? Our

rental income is is a big one. It does pay the mortgage and all of our escrow.

>> Um that's why we're like we don't know if we should sell because it cash flows so well.

>> How much do you guys on average would you say Randy bring home a month though?

Everything in total.

>> I would say around 4500.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. I I would sell mother's house and I would pay off your car and I would pay off your consumer debt and I would get on a detailed written budget to where you're running this like a business, not just a wish, not just like a wish. You've kind of just been throwing stuff around and hoping it worked. >> And you got to really have to get very,

very practical and very detailed and live on your income. And the two of you are going to work on your careers. y'all suck at earning money and so you need to really get some income coming into this house and um then you can work to pay

down the 180. But no, I wouldn't sell the duplex today. I would sell mom's house and clear this stupid car. And no, go buy $28,000 cars when you make $20 an hour.

>> Yeah. And hopefully they could clear what almost a hundred after. If she owes 40, it's 150. >> Yeah. And then well, you got to pay off the $28,000 car and the consumer debt, which I didn't get all the way to the bottom of that, but >> so another 10 or 15 probably there >> cuz the numbers don't add. But the uh anyway, yeah. So, you need to get very detailed on your monthly income and and

what it goes to and begin to whittle down the 180 that you do keep at the end of the story. But everything else, I would um I would sell mom's house and I would pay off your car and then get on a detailed budget, pay off all the depending on the credit cards >> and I don't think she she didn't give us her primary home total of what they owe

and the duplex all together but all together >> it was a blanket mortgage one mortgage on the two of them >> on on both of them. >> Yeah. So they've got that deal down at the credit union. >> Yeah. The banker helped them with that.

>> Yeah.

So yeah, blanket mortgages set you up for problems when you get ready to divest properties when you get ready to sell a property. uh because most of them don't have properly done release clauses, meaning that you can sell the duplex for 180 and they take the whole 180 against the debt and you get nothing cuz there's no partial release clauses >> on blanket mortgages. So there that sets you up for a problem and that's typical.

>> Is that one reason why you wouldn't sell a duplex because of that? Because it's tied into I think she's making money on it right now and they're dependent on it right now. But if we got rid of the car payment, >> now the cash starts to flow and we get on a tight budget, now the cash starts to flow and we can start to whittle it down. You might be able to keep the duplex in time.

>> Um, but I'm hoping it can. Uh, and I can't tell where this is how where this, you know, we we didn't get into every single dollar there, but yeah.

Yeah. So, um, but income is key there,

Randy. if you guys and run and after you sit down and run your numbers, I think it will give you some piece of having actual plan because everything is just feels so muddled together and you're like I don't even know like what to do here and there. And once you've laid out a plan, then you guys are able to say, okay, I need to work x amount more per week. He needs to work x amount more per week for us to clear everything in four

years, three years, you know, whatever the time frame looks like for you guys.

and to actually have a plan and then you can then you can shape your life around.

And that actually will probably give you the motivation then to actually play all

this out because when everything is just in your head and it just feels like there's no succinct order, it feels like

more like chaos.

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The Ramsay plan will hold your hand digitally while this happens. So check it out. Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Nate is in

Cleveland. Hi Nate. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. And you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, my question today is, so me and my wife uh were about $65,000 in

debt. Um, I recently left my full-time

job and started my own business because I was making significantly more. Um, my

question is, I want to get the heck out of debt. Um, and

my question is, how much should I be taking home from the business, but also leaving enough in the business to grow

it?

>> Okay. So, what is the business profiting? You said you're doing a lot better. That's awesome.

>> What's your profit? >> Uh, yes. So, my profit, I am

consistently bringing in $2500 to $2,800

a week. >> Profit or gross?

>> Profit. what I'm bringing and what I'm bringing home. Um, my gross is been

close to 5,500 to 6,500.

>> Okay. What are you doing? What kind of business? >> Um, I have a mobile mechanic business.

>> Oh, good for you. That's awesome.

>> Thank you. >> Okay. And so it costs you about $2 to

$3,000 a month to operate and you're m

Did you say a week or a month? You said a a week.

>> A week. I the past three weeks I've

brought in consistently $2,500 into my

house >> after expenses. Okay.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So So you're making like $10,000 a month. >> Um close to Yeah. >> Yeah. If you keep this pattern going anyway. All right. And uh good for you, man. You're hustling. >> Yeah. Well done. >> That's awesome. Thank you. >> And and so thank you. >> Yeah. So what do you need to put back into the business to grow it? You seem to have it operating very well already.

>> Well, part of this is I I've been

operating part-time about 16 hours a week since January. In the last 3 weeks,

um I went full-time.

>> Um but that doesn't have >> that doesn't mean you need to put money back into it. You're making more money, >> right? So, I have about um $50,000 in

tooling that I still have to get. Um and

I'm also getting to the point where um potentially in the next 2 to 3 months I could look into adding another person.

>> Okay. I'm not I'm not adding anybody right now. This is a whole three weeks old, >> right? >> So, no, we don't need to we need let's just put off talking about adding somebody. And to by tooling, you mean purchasing tools to do the job?

>> Yeah. So I >> So you already have enough tools to make $10,000 a month if you never bought another tool,

>> right? >> I guess that's correct. Yeah. Excited.

He's excited about his business. >> I I want you to be excited. I'm excited, too. But let me tell you Let me tell you what happens with guys like you and guys like me, okay? If I go in Home Depot, I

discover things I need, >> right? >> That I don't even know what they do, but I need one of them. And so what happens in your world is you can tool yourself all the way through your profit,

>> right? >> And the Matco guy is making all your money then.

>> Yeah. >> Been down that road and getting out of that road. >> Exactly. So or whoever whoever's pitching you the tool. So you need to be very careful. Tools are not fun. Tools

are overhead.

>> Overhead is evil >> in business. >> And so you don't buy a stinking wrench

unless that wrench is going to make you more than it costs you within the next two or three weeks.

>> Well, the reason why I'm talking about tooling is specifically like there are jobs that I'm currently not able to do.

So what? I make okay, >> you're making $10,000 a month

after three whole weeks in business.

I mean, you can get it's okay to add some of those jobs, but I don't know when you're going to do them, >> right? >> That would be >> But he's saying they pay more, right?

So, one job could be two grand and then if you had this tool, I don't know what, double, I don't know, or whatever.

Whatever it is for you. >> Yeah. Only if you by yourself can make more money because you bought the tool, >> not because you can get jobs.

>> Yeah. >> The tool has to make you more money.

>> Cuz we get caught up in this thing of I could, you know, I'm turning down work.

No, you're not. You're busy already 15 hours a day, >> right? Unless you can make double the hourly rate because of the tool. The tool has zero value to you right now because logistically you booked up.

>> Gotcha. So, I'm doing accounting now is what I'm doing. I'm not working on cars.

I'm doing accounting with you. So, if you're averaging $10,000 a month with the hours you have, unless you can average an extra $5,000, don't spend

$2,000 on the tool.

>> Gotcha. >> Because it doesn't it didn't cause your income to go up. It just meant you could go to a different kind of a job than you're doing right now. Whoopy dupty.

Now, when we get ready to hire somebody 6 months from now and you've actually

got some downtime that you need to fill up some available hours in the day and the tool adds those jobs. Now, that tool

is going to ROI quickly and you're going to buy that one.

>> Gotcha. >> But your goal is not to end up with a trailer full of tools. Your goal is end up with a pile of money.

>> Yeah. >> That's what the tools are for. and that that I get like I'm sitting in a studio right now. It's a different world, but it's the same kind of principle. Okay, when it comes to uh computers and electronics and cameras, my friends in the engineering department that work for me in Ramsey have no end to their appetite.

They will buy $2 million worth of crap that that this crap sitting here would already do. >> And I have to go, no, we're not doing that. But then also >> but then also it's Dave you're going to look prettier. I'm like not that much prettier and probably not.

It's just probably going to show off my ugly a little better but that's all. But I mean this is this is the the world you can get into where the >> you're not careful increase in equipment minimal functional. >> Yeah. Okay.

So where was where's the balance of putting money back into the business? >> Only put money back >> versus I know versus paying off the 65,000 that he has in his consumer like in his household debt. I don't I don't think he's going to have a trouble with this because I think he needs to take most of it home right now >> and pay it off.

>> Now, if you're not fully booked and you can buy a tool that causes you to be fully booked, then you put that money back in. But that's a that's not $50,000

worth of tooling. >> That's uh which was his original quote.

And I'm all the way down to about 2,000 now. And so, um, but $2,000 at at a

time. Then when you add somebody and you've got available logistic hours. Now we can grow the scope of the business, the size of the business with the tooling. So now we're going to tool up a little bit with cash, but you still got plenty of money, making more money than you've ever made in your whole life. It's awesome because you ain't afraid of work and you're out there doing it, man.

And you know how to do it. This is I got a feeling you're going to this business when we talk to you in 3 years is going to be you have six trucks running and >> if you're not careful cuz also

I would say him I would say you certain personalities you do get excited and then you get up over your skis and you're like that and that's where well I could borrow on this truck I could do I could do that. You know what I mean? And you start to right but you it can start to expand so quickly and so >> but let let's pretend >> there's a level of stability that's good. Let's pretend he was making 5,000 before he quit his job and now he's making 10 and he got $65,000 in debt.

He's debtree in a year. >> Mhm. >> Easy. >> Yep. >> Easy. And uh so, you know, just just

figure out your math that way. And then what we have done at Ramsey, I've organically grown this from a card table in my living room to where we're sitting now. And organically mean I took profit

from the company and I bought tools. I I hired people. I used some of the I didn't take the money home. I put it back in here. But in every case, those things have to give me a return on investment. Otherwise, we're going backward. And backward ain't the plan.

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>> Mary is in Charleston. Hi Mary. How are you?

Good Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah, I have a just a mine's probably pretty simple there. I have a question

as far as our mortgage and paying it off. So, we owe 110,000 on our house.

It's worth about 400,000

and we pay $5,800 a month right now. Our mortgage is only almost 1,500, but we've been paying extra.

>> And in doing that, our payoff, if we pay

it off in we have 23 months and we'll

have it paid off. But if we chose to pay it off in 12 months at $5,800,

then we would have to take some money out of our high yield savings to cate to

to finish paying it off. and and we have

about 70,000 in high yield savings right now. And I've proposed that we take out

after 12 months, continue paying the 5,800 for 12 months and then take out

55,000 out of our savings is what we would have I believe that we would have to pull out and leave about 15,000 in there at that time and pay the house off. So I just want to

>> So the difference the difference >> seems like a wise thing to do. >> Yeah. So the difference is um 12 months

with your plan or the original plan is

23 months.

>> Right. Right. >> So the argument is 11 months difference.

>> Mhm. >> And how old are you guys?

>> I'm 56 and my husband's 60.

>> And how long you been married?

for 11 years. >> Okay. And how much do you guys have in your nest egg? Your retirement nest egg.

>> In in retirement, we almost have a we have almost close to 200,000 in 403b.

We've quit putting so much into it while we've decided to pay this 5,800 a month

rather than the 1,500 the almost 1,500.

We cut back and only >> Yeah. And your your household income is what?

>> 160,000.

>> Okay. All right. Um so let's just back

up and say both plans are in the smart column.

>> Okay. >> There's no you're so stupid I can't breathe check mark on this one. Okay. I

mean you both of these are very wise.

This is an argument between um you know minutia. Okay. And so

neither one of you said he he wants to do it the other way. You want to pay it off early, but he's worried about having not as much emergency fund. Is that am I reading the wrong the between the lines?

>> Yeah. And I told him I I watched your show one day and I said I think he said get uncomfortable for a while and that's when I came up with the plan of I even suggested we leave a thousand in there and he's like no I'm not that.

>> No, no, no, no. That's not that's not our plan. Our plan is baby steps four through six, >> four through seven, you you leave your fully funded emergency fund in place.

And I think 15,000's a little tight.

I I'll kind of come down on his side there. So maybe between the two of you is the answer because I also think 70 is a little high.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. How much are your expenses every month, Mary?

>> You know, not much really. We were bringing home about 8,200

a month. And like I say, we're able to pay 6,000 >> on our and live within means and not take out a high yield savings or anything like that. So our expenses aren't we don't we're out of debt.

>> So if you went in the middle and just said if we lost all income, right, and we had four months four months worth, right, that's 32,000.

>> So maybe you do throw, you know what I mean? Some at it. Um, but you guys are

reasonable in the 3 to 6 month emergency fund, right? Four to five month.

>> Yeah, you're you're in good shape. The 70 is high. The 15's probably a little low. >> And so, here's a fun game if you want to play it. uh do the 5800

for 12 months and then keep doing it every month until

you look up and the balance in the out

and the high you can pull enough out of the high yield. Wait a minute. That I don't like that game all of a sudden cuz the high yield's not paying you what your mortgage is. What's your mortgage interest rate?

>> It's high. It's 6.875.

>> And the more and your high yield's not by three, right?

>> Yeah, it's just over three. So, I want to go I want to go and pull some of the high yield now.

>> Um, >> yeah. Why don't we uh uh see 15? You you

he says none and you said 50.

>> I'd go I'd go 35. Yeah. Split the difference. Split the difference. >> That leaves you guys again with a four to five month emergency fund. And with what you're going to save in the mortgage once it is paid off, you can have it bumped back up in six months, you know. >> And then you can also play my game.

Okay. So, you put 35 on it today. you pay 5,800 on it. And if you look up and

he's okay with one month pulling another 10,000 out and knocking it off and that's the last 10,000. You could every month look at it and go how if we paid it off this month that would leave us this this amount. We paid off this month how it would leave us this amount and and both of you sit down and look at it and and be be laughing and giggling while you're doing it. Not wagging your finger. >> Okay. It's like this is fun.

>> Okay. Are we going to pay it off this month? Are we going to pay it off next month? >> Keep the levity.

Yeah. Are we going to pay it off this month or next month or the next month? And then you, you know, he's going to look up one of those times and surprise you and go a little further, you know, go on down to 20,000 balance or $25,000 balance. >> Now, Mary, I would want you guys investing in retirement though.

I mean, if you are following the baby steps, you guys need to be investing 15%.

Because you said you pulled back some >> and putting none in. >> We pulled back. We were doing >> completely. You've pulled back completely. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You got We still We're still investing 4%. We were at 15. You need to

go back to 15. >> Yeah. >> Go back to 15. >> Even. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I would advise to cut back while we're paying the house off because >> our mortgage is so high. 6 point our interest rate because of the mortgage is so high. >> Yeah. But the interest the the rate of return on mutual funds in a good retirement account is higher than your mortgage.

>> Okay. >> So, whoever advised you that your age right now, I mean, like, you know what I mean? I think it would be a little bit of a moo point though if it you know but if you're in your early 30s doing this but they're in their I mean he's going to turn 60 so I'm like I want >> you want some in that >> more than 200 >> to be able to to retire >> cuz that's that is the balance about the the paid off home like where we are all about yes getting to that point which is our baby step you know baby step six but but it does no good if you have a paid off house and you have no money >> exactly not enough >> so like you do you do want Okay.

So, what what we teach Mary to follow our plan exactly would be to start putting 15% of your household income, that's another 10% more than you're doing now, into retirement.

um you know, 3 to 6 months, which would be 25,000. Okay? And so, I'm going to put 45,000 onto the house. Uh I'm going

to start putting 15% of my income away for retirement. And then I'm going to figure out how much I can put towards the house while putting 15% into retirement. Won't be 5,800 anymore. Yep.

It'll >> It's gonna be more like It's going to be more like whatever 5200 or whatever. And

you're still going to be out in 23 months. >> That's right. And um and you will have been all along putting money into retirement and all along had a sufficient 3 to six months of expenses retirement plan and all along all your extra money then is going towards the house. And so that's what we teach the baby steps four, five and six are simultaneous.

Four is 15% of your income into retirement. Five is kids college not relevant in this discussion. and six is everything extra goes towards the house and the expense and and no more should be in savings not non-retirement savings like high yield than three to six months and we're going to call that >> 30 25,000 right now and call it a day between >> that's what we actually teach if you're going to work our plan exactly that's what we would do and the truth is you'll end up with more money working that than either of the plans we discussed for the last eight minutes but it was fun discussing it >> and either way Mary you're going to look up in two years and your life's going to be great.

You're going to be doing good. >> None of these options are in the stupid column. >> Yeah. >> None of them. >> And well done, Mary. I mean, to get to this point, that's that's a lot of hard work. So, you and your husband both. It's amazing. >> Good, healthy discussion between someone who's debt averse and someone who wants a pile of savings. Husband and wife.

Love this discussion and the fact that they're having the discussion and uh and it's a it's a healthy argument. I like it.

Chris is in Boston. Hey Chris, what's up in your world?

>> Hey guys, thanks for uh taking my call.

I'm big big fan of y'all. >> Well, thank you. How can we help?

So, I wanted to ask um the basic question of did my fiance and I make a poor decision on the house we just bought. And I was hopeful to to kind of

briefly go over my plan going forward and see if it aligns with y'all's advice um slash what what you might suggest I do differently. >> Okay. What do you what do you what did you do on the house? Tell me about it.

So, the house was a $670,000

house and we did 10% down. Um, and so

our monthly payment is $4,700.

>> Mhm.

>> And you what do you make?

So I I have a salary of 120,000 per year

and my fiance has a salary of 70,000 per year. The big variable in that is that I

work in sales and I get a bonus every quarter. That can can vary. Um

typically, um it can three of the quarters will vary between 10 and $40,000 and then one quarter will vary between 30 all the way up to maybe $100,000.

>> Mhm.

Okay. Well, the the what we recommend

for married people is that your house that your payment should not be more than 1/4 of your take-home pay and you should be well under that with the numbers you gave me.

>> So, that's what I was So, with the

outside of the bonuses, um if you remove the bonuses, our our take-home pay is

roughly $11,540 per month. Yeah, but we don't we're we're not removing the bonuses cuz they're there.

>> Um even on the small end, they

maybe around 60,000 per year at the

small end. That would still fall.

>> It still puts you It still puts you at a fourth of your take-home pay.

Um, I guess our our main question was, you know, did we overindulge? Because it it did drain pretty much all of our

savings to to get to it. Now, I I did invest um and and the way I did it was

before listening to y'all's show and and learning your take on it, um I invested

in real estate before I was paid off fully on. So, we do have some debt that I wanted to go over as well. And um so I but I long story short, I invested in real estate prior to paying off all of our debt and not only and including um

only having 10% down on our primary residence worried me a little bit. And I I know that that's not >> it's not best. And no, I would not be investing in real estate before you bought a house. And no, I would not be buying a house if you didn't uh if you weren't debtree. But you already did. So now let's get out of debt. Why don't you sell the rental and pay off the debts?

>> That was going to be one of my questions. We've only owned it for about a year and a few months. Um, my thought

was selling the rental before it appreciating to its full value would >> it's not going to appreciate to its full value. At what date? When does it stop

appreciating?

>> Yeah. No, I I I I understand that. Yeah, >> there's no end to that question, >> but you just feel like the quick turn after you pay commissions and everything. >> All you're doing is admitting your mistake and that's the problem.

>> When do you guys get But if you sold But if you sold the property, Chris, I mean, if he only had it for a year, it probably doesn't have much equity in it. So, >> which means it sucks >> like it because it should have some equity. >> No, it's it's draining him. He's not making any money on it, >> right?

>> Unless you got Unless you got a bunch of equity, you're not making money. >> Yeah.

we do have very stable monthly income on

it we're not we aren't cash flowing yet it break even and I agree with you I I agree it's it's useless >> you're you're you're spinning your wheels You're you're breaking even at best on the monthly cash flow. By the time you include vacancy repairs and crap owning rental property, you have to make a lot more than you're making to break even. You are not breaking even.

Not net net over a 12 to an 18month period of time. When you look back on it, that's what's going to h I've owned $600 million worth of real estate. Believe me, that you have to have more margin than you've got to break even.

Now, so I would get out of that. That's what I would do. And then all of a sudden, your house starts looking smarter. And I would, you know, use anything I can do to clear up. What other personal debts have you guys got?

>> I have 20,000 student loans, 9,000 car.

She has 20,000 roughly student loans.

>> Yeah. And you guys make a pile of money.

So, clean that mess up. Yeah. Yeah. See, if you don't have if you don't have this rental property hanging over your head like a hatchet and you don't have this any personal debt at all, all of a sudden, we're not sweating the house.

>> Yeah. But I do hear you, Chris, with when the bonuses come depending on the month, right? That the instability is Yeah. on the low end. You said if you bring home 11,000, right, and 5,000

almost of it being taken by the mortgage on that one particular month, you need to have a fund. We call it the the peaks and valleys fund. So, when the bonuses do come in, throw some of it in that fund. So, when there is a low month, you can pull from that fund and that the house, you know, is fine, that it is around a fourth year take-home pay. If you didn't have any car payments, so you wouldn't be noticing it.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, my my plan going forward was to try and save three months reserves and then get to 20% equity in the house. So, you would add step one to that be sell the condo.

>> I would sell the condo. I'd get debtree.

I'd build my emergency fund. Baby steps.

Do >> you guys have any cash saved, Chris?

>> So, we we really did pretty much get >> put everything there. Very low. Um, but in a few days. When's the wedding?

>> I get >> um in October. I we are very lucky that

we do have family help for that. We did put a small portion of our our money already into it. >> Um but that that wasn't a big factor. Um

but I I should be in in a few days I'll be getting another one of those quarterly bonuses that will at least replenish some of that that >> So the advice I gave you is what you do from today forward. Okay. Had you called

me a year ago, here's what I would have

told you. For the rest of you guys out there, not to shame Chris, but for the rest of you guys out there, don't buy a home until you're married. Number one.

Number two, don't buy a home unless you're out of debt.

Period. Don't buy a home unless you're out of debt and have 3 to 6 months of expenses plus a down payment. And then

don't buy a home where the payment on a 15-year fixed is more than a half or

more than a quarter of your take-home pay. And don't buy rental property

unless you pay cash for it, which is way after all those other don't things that I just covered. So, if you had done that, you would now have you'd be planning a wedding with a pile of money sitting there and no debt, and you'd have no rental property and no house. >> And you'd be looking at October going, I'm sure ready for it to come. And then the following spring after your marriage, after renting an apartment for 6 months, I would talk about buying a home.

By then, you'd have a great down payment and you'd have no debt and you'd have an emergency fund, too.

>> And when you buy a home with someone you aren't married to, you are extremely

vulnerable, >> both of you. It is legal and financial

suicide to do this. They're probably going to get away with it because it's probably going to work out. They're probably they have a wedding date. >> They have a wedding call and they're like, "We're not sure." >> I mean, Saturday works for me. Um, but

the uh as a wedding date, but the uh you know cuz she I mean if something happens with this relationship and everything's already exactly tied

down and tight and and and so we're stressing this relationship right now and if anything, God forbid happens,

y'all are going to find out what screwed looks like. It's going to be a mess. So,

I'm but I'm hoping that for y'all it just sails right on through to October and you can just execute the plan we talked about and we're going to start selling stuff and we're going to get this mess cleaned up. But that's what I not again not to shame him but all you know you guys got to quit buying houses aren't married yet. It's really the the nightmare stories that come into this show. >> Buy houses together when you're not married. Yes. >> Both your names on it. It's just you

the stuff that can happen is all bad and not good. So yeah, please don't do this.

Again, Chris, we're hoping you for you that this all works out. We're not trying to beat you up, but you called and asked, so we're going to tell you.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Matthew's in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Matthew. How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, well, I'm just wondering how to, you know, attack this mess that I'm in, basically.

Um, yeah, kind of figure out where to start.

What what's going on, Matthew?

>> Um, well, I have a total of $48,9049

of total debts. Um,

I have some goals for myself I want in

the next year or so, but I want to climb out all this before I can start doing those. >> What are those goals?

>> Um, I want to be able to buy a house. Um the house payment is kind of an

interesting situation, family situation sort of. Um so I have really great

parents who basically are giving me 300,000 for a

house and I want to be able to be secure

and able to be able to buy a home, but I want to get out of all this debt I have before I do any of that.

What do you make?

>> Um, so I make 77, my wife makes about

55. >> Okay, very good.

All right. Uh, okay. And

so how much debt the 48,000? What's the breakdown on that?

>> Um, it's 19,35 in students student loans for my wife.

>> Mhm. Um 12,639 for one car and 11,145 for another car. >> Gotcha. Okay.

>> And then 1545 on one credit card and 3139 on

another. >> Okay. All right. So, when the two of you sit down at the kitchen table with the television off and you put these numbers in front of you, what do they tell you?

Um, they've probably been living above our means. That's what it tells me.

>> Mhm. Okay. But what they tell me is, I

mean, you make $125,000 a year. Um, you

have $48,000 in debt. I think you can attack this debt fairly rapidly.

The $300,000, is this a cash gift from your parents?

>> Yes. >> And where are you living now?

Um, I'm living outside of Portland.

>> No, I mean, are you living in a rental? >> I'm renting. I'm renting. Yeah, I'm renting. >> Okay. And how much is your monthly rent?

>> 1470. >> Okay. And you're outside of Portland, Oregon, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. What will $300,000 buy outside of

Portland, Oregon?

>> Um, it won't outright buy anything.

>> Oh, yes, it will. Um,

I mean it would get close for sure.

>> It won't buy something you like, but it'll buy something.

>> It will buy something. Sure. Yeah. >> Okay. That's what I asked. What will it buy?

>> Um, small piece of property.

Probably need some fixing up at that price. It's not too uh cheap up here,

unfortunately.

Mhm. No, I mean that would be reasonable because the the median household median

house price in all of America and Portland's much more expensive than most of America. >> Uh but the median house price is 400 uh right now 400 and something thousand.

>> In the Midwest it's I can't see that you're flipping it. But anyway, the uh

it's like >> 6 615 in the West.

>> In the West, but that includes California.

That includes Portland, too.

>> Okay. Anyway, that's the median. So, you would be But bottom line is you're going to be substantially lower than median.

How old are you two?

>> I'm 29. My wife's 30.

>> Mhm.

Okay.

All right. So, >> it may not buy an outright house though in port like outside of Portland.

>> Yeah, it will. Yeah, it will. It's just not a house he wants. Yeah, it definitely will. I mean, it 100% will

buy one, but I'm not sure that you want to live in it. I want to live in or he wants to live in it. >> Okay, that's fair. >> I'm not saying it won't buy I'm not going to say it won't buy a house. It definitely you can find a property 100%

chance for 300 grand.

>> I'm not saying none of us are going to like it, but we can find one. Okay.

>> Okay. Now that we've gotten that established for real. >> Well, I mean, I'm I'm >> still considering it even if I don't like it.

>> So, one thing that's interesting about this money is my folks want it split in

a certain way. They want a um a a title titled a certain way when

we do it. >> No, I'll pass.

>> Wait, wait. Stop. Stop. >> Some issues. >> Why? >> Um attendance in common title is what they would want.

>> I don't know what that is. I'm sorry. Say it. >> Why? >> It's attendance and common title.

>> I know why. >> I would think >> with them. >> Why? Um >> so they could have it if something happened to you?

>> No, between her and I. >> Between your wife. They don't like your wife. >> Oh, no.

>> I'll pass. >> So, I mean, they've they've done this for all five of us. Um, they have five

siblings, and their idea is that, not

that they think anything's going to happen, but if it was, you know, this is their nest egg. they've worked for a long time to keep and have and giving it

to us. They if something was to happen between us, they wouldn't want some of that going towards, you know,

>> yeah, >> in a divorce or something. >> I'm sorry. I completely disagree with them and I would turn that gift down

>> if it requires that. Yeah. >> If that if that's if that's a if the gift is contingent upon you splitting you and your wife and to protect you from your wife and protect them from your wife, no thank you. They are now interfering in my household. They came across my threshold. No thank you. I'll

have to pass. >> And then >> I would not do that to Rachel and Winston in a thousand years. And if I

did, Winston would bow up and he would be right. >> Well, if that happened to me, I feel like I'd be pissed. Like, y'all, we just got married. Like, >> I don't know. I don't like it.

>> Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. I have is I have about 47,000 invested, >> okay, >> in a brokerage account and I just really want to get >> If I were you, I would just start working my way out of debt. Work your work your baby steps. You guys need the two of you need to get on a budget together and you need to be on beans and rice, rice and beans, and let's start paying off these $48,000 worth of debt with your $125,000 and then start saving towards a house. But I you're you're

gonna you're gonna do it unless your wife bows up and she should but um but

you guys are probably gonna do this but you shouldn't do it. This is bad

medicine. >> Well, it's just bad relational the whole relational side. >> Yeah. It's it's not it's not good. You're you're insulting you're inserting spiritual things into this that shouldn't be there. These are this is bad. Yeah. And sorry mom and dad, you

don't get that level of control. Well, if you want my money, you have to do it that way. Okay, I'll pass on your money then. I'm not You're not driving a wedge between me and my wife. Not a chance.

You don't have You don't have enough money to do that. And so, because you

don't have enough money to be generous.

Instead, you're still got your fingers and everything and you can't let go.

Control people.

No. And all my siblings did it. No. I'm sorry. Hey, you get to be the first one to say, "Well, all the siblings didn't do it." I didn't. There you go.

>> Oh, man.

Hey. George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming.

Well, here's the good news. You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly.

What's not to love?

That's ramiesolutions.com/realestate.

The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. Of control

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Might not be in all states. >> Today's question comes from Allison in Alaska. I recently discovered my husband has been opening credit cards, maxing them out, and only making the minimum payments each month. Should I put my home into a trust to ensure it cannot be touched by his decisions? All of our assets are in my name since I own them

before because I owned them before we met and we both agreed that they need to be protected for my ch children to inherit. I fully understand the bigger issue of him hiding debt, but first I need to take steps to fully protect my children's future before addressing the elephant in the room.

Oh man, would a trust

protect the home?

>> Um, it I don't know Alaska law. Um

in um most states if you enter a

marriage owning a piece of real estate, you will exit that marriage owning that same piece of real estate. Um now then

the question becomes if he takes out a bunch of debt, can they put a lean on

>> the house that he that she owns because he's married to her? And in some states they can. So in some states they could lean in the event it's an unpaid credit card debt for instance could become a lawsuit that would become a judgment against any real estate and his marital rights to that real estate in some states would be it would cloud the title for her children and putting it in a trust probably won't change that. You'd have to ask an attorney about all that.

Um, here's the thing. When we're talking

about in when I'm teaching leaders in small business, and we coach in Entree Leadership, we coach about 10,000 small businesses. And when I'm teaching, for

instance, uh, business legal issues from

a business perspective more than a legal perspective. I remind those guys that

contracts are useless when you are

contracting with a crook.

Uh you can't you can't sign a contract with a crook and then yell later, I have a contract because it's not worth the paper it's written on. You've heard that saying. And the reason is is you just did a deal with someone who doesn't have integrity.

And so you could put the house in a trust and according to Alaskan law that could protect it. That's possible. Uh

but then he could just decide to sue you

in divorce court uh because you fraudulently did the trust without his permission.

Even though you didn't, >> he could just make that crap up. And you can make up crap in a lawsuit in any state >> and just file a lawsuit and just make up crap. It's called pleadings. Okay? And and so what you do is just make up crap and file a lawsuit. And the only recompense the other party has is to spend thousands and tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars to disprove the lie that was in the pleading >> and that'll be coming out of her pocket.

>> By the way, that's going to cost you the house in legal fees >> to defend against a crook.

>> So, the problem is you can't anticipate the moves of a crook except that they're going to be a crook. That we can establish. And now I'm talking about your husband. And so you can't um fix

this problem with a legal document ultimately. You might make it somewhat safer, but you'll be under the illusion that it's done. And it's not done until the crook quits crooing, until the husband quits being a jerk and hiding and spending like he's in freaking Congress and running up credit card debt. So you have to deal with the

problem. the elephant in the room is gonna crap on whatever you try.

So, you got to deal with the elephant because a 100% chance you're gonna have elephant crap if you don't. There's a 100% chance and it no matter what you do, it's going to have poop on it. So, I mean, you really have to deal with it.

So, you got to go all you there's no legal maneuver that makes this guy not

be a problem except divorce. and he's not a pro and

he's still a problem until the divorce is final. And and I'm not suggesting divorce, but I am suggesting that

>> you could go do everything exactly right according to Alaska law and he could make up a big story and file a lawsuit

and you will spend the cost of the house defending it. That's my point. Can you

tell that's happened to me? Yeah. And so, I mean, people make up crap. Okay.

They just lie. And the course system allows them to get away with it.

>> Yeah. So for you Allison, I mean honestly, >> yes, if you wanted to go and do it to make yourself feel better, that's great.

But the pro but the elephant is in the room just like you're saying Dave is the thing that it does. It has to be >> call the zoo.

>> Tell them to come get their elephant. He's lost. Yeah.

>> Oh my gosh. Yeah.

>> It's really sad. I mean, >> it's horrible that you're facing this, but you're trying to fix the problem without fixing the problem, and you can't. You're going to have to fix the problem. >> You got to deal with the dude.

>> The dude is the problem, not the not your legal structure. >> It's going to be Yeah. >> So, you can't get >> a lot to unpack. Sorry, Alison.

>> Yeah. So, an example of that is, okay, you do a will and you do a full estate plan. That doesn't keep someone from suing. Mhm.

>> It it they might not win >> by the time you finish hard for them to win, >> but it be very hard for them to win. You can put a very detailed thing in place, but you but by the time you finish writing checks to lawyers so they can send their kids to Harvard, >> um by the time you finish writing all those checks, you ain't going to feel like you won, although you won. And so

you're still deal you're you're still dealing with, you know, entitled little trust fund baby brats who didn't get what they wanted and so they sue the estate. A and so the problem was not how the estate was structured. The problem was you raised entitled trust fund baby brats and so you you suck as a parent.

That's what that was. And and so you got to go back and deal with the issue because the legal system does not there's not legal processes or systems that protect the righteous from being

sued or from having to run up legal fees to offset. >> Yeah. But a will and I mean that stuff holds up in court for people out there to get a will in place and it does you need to get a will and it will hold up in court. But if you have crazy if you have crazy in your family, >> you might spend $100,000 making sure that will is upheld.

you might spend $100,000. >> Don't do it.

>> So, yeah, do it anyway. It's your only shot, but don't do that and say, "This fixes the crazy in my family." Because you still hadn't dealt with the crazy.

>> That's the problem. You got to go to the root behavior when you're dealing with this. And so, when I'm teaching these small business guys, I'm like, "Don't sign a contract with a crook. Here's an idea. If he's a known crook, the guy's doing cocaine. I'm kind of worried about him." Well, then quit using him as a sub. Hello. No kidding. He's going to

steal everything off your job site, dumb butt of He's doing coke. Hello, have

some sense. You know, this is the stuff I get all these questions on entre leadership all the time. It's the same thing. So, you got to fire the sub.

>> That's a lot of cocaine. >> You got to get rid of it.

>> Well, we got this is a great segment. We got elephant poop. We got cocaine. We got elephants in the room. >> Lord have mercy. >> This There's so There's so many metaphors here. There's Now there's an Now there's an elephant on cocaine.

All because of Allison's question.

>> Oh, poor Allison. >> Question of the day. >> Poor Allison.

Uh, so yeah, you got to deal with the husband. The husband. >> Mhm. >> Wow. If we could, you know what? We'd be out of business if the husbands would behave.

This We wouldn't have any callers.

>> Money and marriage. That's a real >> We wouldn't have any callers. >> It's a real thing. >> Yeah. We'd have people We' We'd be reduced to boring 401k questions.

>> All tax and estate.

>> Yeah. Tax and estate law. That's all we'd be doing. and 401k. How do I invest in my 401k? That this is so much more fun. We've got elephants and cocaine and gosh, just a lot more stuff in this question. It's a lot better.

Hey,

hey, hey.

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Well, we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show. If you have a money question and you can't get through, head on over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free

AI tool that's built and trained on only

proven Ramsay principles. So if you want

to follow the baby steps and you want to know the details about any type of question, we've loaded three or four years worth of shows answered into Ask Ramsey. We've loaded the books and articles into Ask Ramsey. And so it's going to sound particularly like one of us here on the show actually answered your question and no other crap was led into the database. And so you don't have to worry about the artificial intelligence part being screwed up.

Nope, it's just us and it'll give you the same answer. So ask your question today. It's completely free at ramseyolutions.com or click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or on YouTube and you can ask

Ramsay for free. John's in Boisee,

Idaho. Hey John, what's up?

>> Dave, thanks for taking my call. and Rachel. Um, I tried using Ask Ramsey on

this one, but it didn't come back with an answer. >> Really? What did it tell you?

>> Plenty of issues. Well, it said unable to answer this question at this time.

>> Interesting. >> Um, >> okay. I can't wait to hear the question. >> It might it might have been the topic, but uh it's it's pretty simple. Um, I've got plenty of debt. got a lot of issues.

But specifically, I know you guys tell uh council not to do debt consolidation,

but you also uh

tell us to be very wary and try to get rid of our IRS debt as quickly as possible. So, I owe about 20,000 to the

IRS and wondering if I should consolidate that or transfer that over to another lender and have the IRS paid

off and I just deal with that lender.

>> Yes.

Okay, >> the interest rate will be better and and they have nowhere near the power to screw up your life that the KGB, I mean the IRS has.

And so, um, the the the what you're paying in penalties and interest with the IRS far exceeds a credit card rate, far exceeds a home equity loan rate, far exceeds anything else. And, uh, I'm not suggesting this, but the IRS is not bankruptible, and all other debt just about is.

>> Mhm. So, if you got if you did hit a worst case scenario, even it turns out better, but you're not going to be there. That's not your going to be your problem. But, um, yeah, I would move it.

Uh, how much total debt have you got?

>> Oh, boy. Here we go.

>> You want the house, too? >> No. Everything but the house.

>> Okay. 315,000 >> on what?

>> Um, let's see. We've got 192 in uh one

school on Let's see. Let me do that real quick. We've actually probably got about 220 in school loans. My wife uh was a is an

attorney. >> Okay. >> And um and she graduated recently,

although we're in our 50s.

>> Great. Um >> so she she making lawyer money yet?

>> She is making um government service

lawyer money. >> Why didn't she take like a real lawyer job and get this debt paid off? um because she's got this bleeding heart.

Um she's she's looking to make a change soon. >> Okay. >> And and so we're we're hoping for a good change in the positive there.

>> Good. >> Um >> All right. That's that's sweet. But also keep you broke. Okay. And um >> 30 30 on >> 35,000 is in a for 35,000 in a 401k loan

>> um that I'm paying back. That's 10% interest paid back to myself. Mhm.

>> Um, Lending Club, we consolidated some

other loans. Uh, that's about 15 grand.

>> Mhm. >> Um, my student loan is 13 grand. Um, and

then we've got other consumer debt.

>> Together, we make we bring home about

10,000 a month.

>> What is she being paid?

Uh, she is getting paid 80 now. She just

got a raise to 90 and I'm getting paid 100, but I'm I see only about

4,200 uh a month after I have everything

taken out. So, >> what is >> out of my paycheck comes in my 401k maxed out on um you know, maxed out on benefits and everything. Now, this this coming paycheck, this Friday, is going to be my first paycheck without putting $1,200 a month into my 401k.

>> Okay.

Bring it toward the debt. >> Are some of the benefits ripoff stuff that you need to get out of?

>> Um, I don't know. I haven't I haven't delved closely into that.

>> Yeah, because you're not getting home with half your money even.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

>> That's kind of crazy. Yeah. So, I want to find I want to let's clean that paycheck up so we can address this thing and then of course get her income up so we can address this thing and get this mess cleaned up. Yeah. Good. Oh, yeah.

But yes, to answer your original question, um, and that question I don't remember answering it in the last 5 years. >> So, I I have answered it, but I don't remember recently answering what whether I would refinance IRS debt. So, it would not have been in Ask Ramsey. So, now it makes sense why it didn't answer it.

um because it wouldn't it wouldn't have had the data to do it with. So, uh but anyway, yeah, that's the answer is yes, refinance IRS debt um because it's better interest rates, you don't have the penalties and they don't have the power to, you know, suddenly come start leaning accounts and everything else.

They don't have to ask a judge. Mhm.

>> If you have a loan with your bank, they have to sue you when and then ask a judge to place a lean.

It's a five-step process. And you're going to get like tons of paperwork at your front door by the sheriff before that any of that happens. With the IRS, they won't even tell you. There'll just be money disappearing out of your checking account.

You won't know what happened. >> Uh because they have almost unlimited power. Not that often, but I have had it happen. The clients, and I had it happen to me when I was going broke.

>> They just came in and just took money, and I'm like, "Where's my money?" We just took it. You can do that. We could do whatever we want.

very afraid of your government. Yes. So, yeah, it's, uh, especially if you owe them money. Yeah, that's that's the thing. So, yeah, get get them out of your life. And that's a

5% of your situation, though, John. 95%

is getting organized and starting to squeeze the juice out of everything here to be able to clean this mess up as fast as possible and uh and get yourself where you're not broke and you're very wealthy and then your wife can do pro boner work the rest of her life if she wants to help the hurting and not charge or something. That's cool. That's wonderful if you want to do that. You just can't be broken doing that with 300,000 $220,000 in student loan debt.

So you kind of lose your options for your heart to bleed when you do that.

Yep. >> But um >> and I just got I just did ask Ramsey because I was curious because we've we've answered that recently. >> You have? Okay. So, what did it say?

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. I mean, did it give you an answer? >> Yeah. And it just you have to >> which is great about it. You could type, you know, it's asking me, do I have a $1,000 starter emergency fund? Takes you through the baby steps and you get to it. >> Made you jump some hoops. >> Yep. And then the installment agreement.

Yep. >> Offer and compromise currently non-collectible. Yeah. Goes on and on, but it's good. >> All right. There's plenty in there. Oh.

Oh, okay. >> May have just been a fluke >> at the time. >> Yeah, might have been. Might have been, >> but but more often than not, but we do I mean I feel like we've gotten that question um a good bit with the IRS debt. And the

answer is to anyone out there if you have a large amount enough that you have to be put on a payment plan that you can't pay off in 30 to 60 days.

>> Yeah. The IRS is not an installment plan company. >> No. Yep. This is not um CLA.

>> Yeah. >> Afterpay. Don't do after pay.

>> Don't do after pay with your tie with the IRS. Yeah. You want you want to clear it up as fast as possible because they got power. Well, I'm glad to know Ask Ramsey is doing that. That's good.

After I just did an ad for it. I know.

And he said the guy comes doesn't work.

Yeah. >> Doesn't work. Well, good news is it worked for Rachel. Okay. So, >> so that's uh there we go.

>> Yeah. John, but I hope I really do hope for you guys that y'all can get into a high income situation, knock this debt out, and then you can yeah, spend the rest of your life with that degree that she has and use it, you know, for good

and and where she wants to. Um, to have the freedom to do that, it's just hard to have that freedom when you have $300,000 of consumer debt.

>> Yeah.

Hey, George Camel here. We often talk about how being normal sucks when it comes to your money. But guess what?

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Our

scripture of the day, Matthew 11:29.

Take my yoke upon you, let me teach you

because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

Jim Ran said, "Formal education will make you a living. Self-education will make you a fortune." Scott's in Twin Falls, Idaho. Hey, Scott. What's up?

Hey guys. Um, been following you guys on my Facebook uh, videos for a long time.

So, good to jump in. >> Well, thank you. Good to have you.

>> Hey, uh, I'm engaged. Um, >> hey, >> when you getting married? >> Super, super excited. End of no or sorry, September. End of September coming up. >> Yay. Good for you.

>> Thank you. Uh, so listen, uh, my fiance owns a house. Um, she's got three kids.

Uh, the house is the house where the

divorce went down, all the, you know,

the bad stuff, I guess, that led us here. Um, and so we are now trying to

make a decision on what to do with this house. Uh, and the realtor is recommending a short sale. Um, I don't love that idea, but I'm just I guess trying to decide whether to take this financial hit now for kind of a clean break, a fresh start, uh, or preserve cash, stay put here temporarily while we stabilize, even though that will delay sort of this, I guess, breaking free of of that baggage. So, anyway, would love some in. >> So, she owes more on the house than she can get for it.

>> Uh, yes, sir. Yes, sir. Uh it look anywhere from 25 to 40ish is what the realtor is recommending or >> and the house is obviously in her name.

>> Yes. >> And um does it have the X on it?

>> Um I believe that the X is on it. The X

uh has got medical issues um out of a

job right now. We're basically cons not considering him as >> No, he does he have to sign to sell it?

Uh yeah, he he may. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I got >> Yeah. If he's on the deed and he's on the mortgage, if you're going to do a short sale, he has to sign that he's not

paying his bill because that's what a short sale is.

>> Mhm. >> So, a short sale is like a voluntary repossession.

Okay. It's like turning It's like turning in a car on a repo

and not paying the difference. So, if you do a short sale or if she does a short sale, you're not involved. Okay?

But if she does it, technically, if she does a short sale, make sure you remember these words. It is without recourse.

Without recourse. And what that means is

they can't come after her for the difference.

Okay? that 25 or 40, they're accepting the that the house is if they foreclose on it, their analysis tells them, the mortgage company, that if they foreclose on it and resell it after foreclosure, they're not going to get any more for it than they're offering than you're offering them.

>> Okay? >> You see what I'm saying? In other words, if they go through all that and they lose 45,000 or they accept a buyer's offer and do a short sale, they lose 45,000. That's their analysis. If they

think they can take it back and sell it for enough to get all their money, they would rather foreclose than take a short sale.

>> But that means that the house is worth more than your realtor says it is. And I doubt it, >> right? >> Why has the house gone down in value in Twin Falls, Idaho? I wouldn't think that's the case.

>> I I I don't understand it to be honest.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of >> Is there something wrong with the house?

>> The house is fine. I I suspect that that

the ex that there was some mortgage payments not being made. I Yeah, I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it. I feel like there's details I'm missing.

But >> $45,000 worth of mortgage payments not made. I doubt it.

>> Yeah. The thing is, Dave, I' I've got

I've been saving. I've been following your principles. Um I don't have any debt. I have money set aside that I've

been saving up for a house payment myself. um before her and >> does she have debt other than this?

>> Only uh a small student loan of 5K which

I'm expecting to just kind of ride off as soon as we are together.

>> As soon as you're married >> and we've got a car. Yes, sir.

>> And you got to pay off the car. Okay.

>> Yes, sir.

>> If you're debating on doing that, you know, paying it all down right now. So, you could either pay the 45,000 and keep this house with all the bad memories and still not be shed of the ex cuz he's on everything. Or you can let it be. Let her do a short sale before you're married.

>> Mhm. >> But she's going to have the equivalent of a repo. Her credit score is going to disappear. No, you wish it would disappear.

It's just going to be very low. >> And would that be a problem when they go to buy a house? >> It's going to be a problem when you get ready to buy something later. Could I not do it my own?

Probably have everything in my name. >> You probably can depending on the Idaho law.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Um and she probably has marital rights even if she's not on the mortgage. So you could talk to Church Hill Mortgage and they can tell you, you know, if your spouse has a super low credit score in Idaho, um and you have the money and a

good and a good score, uh or no score.

In your case, it'll be a good score.

then um >> then you know can I qualify that way and get a house? I I really

I think this lady and these three kids needs to be need to physically be off of that site.

>> Yeah, I agree. I think I heard you say that clearly between the lines. And so

I, you know, at based on their emotional well-being and being rid of uh the the

medical the guy with medical problems, which that can mean a whole lot of bad stuff I don't even want to get into. Um

yeah, I'm I'm I'm going to ask her I'm going to ask her to put this house on the market and get it sold. I will tell you that the short sale is a long and arduous process, though. Mortgage companies don't forgive debt easily,

>> right? >> They're going to want appraisals.

They're going to go, they're going to drag this thing out. It's very difficult. And real estate has

appreciated in most areas enough that they don't do many short sales anymore.

So, they're not as adept at it as they used to be. Like back in 2008, everybody got to be experts on short sales. But um

yeah, it's where the bank agrees to accept a price that yields them less

than their payoff and they eat the difference if you do it without recourse. For God's sakes, there's no point in doing it with recourse. I'd let her be foreclosed on before I did it with recourse. >> Mhm. >> Cuz then they that's the same thing.

>> Hard for them to agree to.

>> No, no. They they pretty much that's what a short sale usually is, but just make sure they don't forget to put that in there, you know, like a city bank forgets to do stuff.

>> Yeah. Um, so that Yeah. Wow.

Interesting. All right. Josh is in Canada. Hey, Josh. What's up with you?

>> Hey, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Uh, so I'm wondering if I should quit

working for my family business and work on my side business that I had started to get out of debt. My wife and I are in baby step three and uh I was just it's

it's taken off more than I ever expected it to. >> How long have you been doing it and what are you making?

>> Uh, so I've been doing my side business for about three years. I've started taking it more seriously this year when we decided to just completely knock out the debt. Uh, currently it's making about 10 to 12,000 a month in profit.

That's just before taxes, though. And I'm making about 90,000 at my job working for the family business.

>> What is your side business?

>> Uh, my side business is automotive and commercial and residential window tinting. So, I just go to people's places and tint their windows basically.

But it's uh it's great margins and it's

just like I'm already booking three weeks out at this point. But >> you are a good salesman. Yeah. Way to

go. >> I'm proud of you. >> Yeah. >> Uh so what what are the relational repercussions when you quit the family

>> business?

>> When you leave the family.

>> I feel like >> it's the mafia. I feel like I feel like they're gonna basically cut off the relationship with me. Some things tell me no, but some things tell me yes.

>> You think some things tell me >> Yeah. The reason being my brother left the business. He was in it for a bit.

Left the business and he had moved away.

There was problems on his part too. He didn't do it like the same way. But anyways, um yeah, he had left the business and now they don't they just don't talk anymore. or part of that is mutual, but yeah, it's just kind of a he

doesn't exist. >> I would give them a long runway of communication. >> Yeah. Don't don't make it sudden.

>> Just go, "Hey, Dad, I'm making 90,000 over here. I'm probably going to I'm making $10,000 a month. I think I'm going to go this direction. I need to know how I can do that and help you guys and be a blessing to y'all. If I need to put six more months in here to help you, I will. But I'm probably not going to be here a year from now. So, let's talk about how I can do that and be a blessing to you, Dad."

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 169. The Dave Ramsey Show (REPLAY from January 5, 2021)


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welcome to the dave ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar cart rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where dad is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw

as the status symbol of choice i am dave

ramsey your host rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today here on the air we're taking your calls about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two

five well over a year ago we start work

on a project rachel writing her latest book and a

year plus later all of that work comes to fruition and today is launch day on know yourself

know your money ta-da it's here it's out

oh i was telling my husband winston last night we were going to bed i was like i feel like my child is being delivered in homes like all across america because the books some of them got delivered early so people yesterday were on social holding them up and and posting it and i was like oh it feels like my child is out there in people's homes right now

and yeah i which winston would not allow by the way but yeah but you can do that with a book not a real child not my real child but uh it feels like a child so it is it is a

is a long pregnancy it's a labor of love in so many ways because i actually ended up writing it almost two years ago because i did it before i had my third baby because i wanted to spend maternity leave not writing the manuscript so i wrote it before that had maternity leave and then came back and started doing edits so it's been a it's been a it's been a long cycle

but it's fantastic that it's out and it's already people are already loving it so i'm so thankful the response has been uh right out of the gate really strong and of course you're working uh what book launch week means is you're working 16 hour days doing uh what a couple of hundred media hits in the in the uh in about a four about a three day period of time here yes yeah here at

the office including in the morning yesterday rachel ray and tomorrow morning good morning america yes wednesday morning for those of you listening on different times but wednesday morning good morning america be watching uh current hit time is around 8 23 if i

remember right yes so be watching for that but also in your local television stations you're hitting every major market uh we can do all of that uh from our studios here with fiber these days and uh should just make it easier than being on a bus it does i mean i miss book tour when you're usually when we launch books we're out for about two and a half weeks traveling

and going to each city and doing book signings at night media during the day and i love that i think it's so fun so the fact that it got cancelled because of covid19 i was like oh man it's like one of those things that was canceled that you just i mean everyone has that in their personal life you're like oh i just hate that i don't get to do that

so well you don't get to see the people and you enjoy and i enjoy going out to eat at all the different restaurants in every city oh there it is no and there it is now we got it i enjoy all of that i really do and i mean obviously yes meeting the people and being in the studios and doing it all but uh but this is fantastic yes with three little kids at home it's worked out it's great

so i'm able to be home in my bed at night but here uh in the day yeah helping promote it because it's been interesting even this morning i did about 10 different cities in a row and almost half of them were like yeah well our entire crew has been talking about it because you know they talk about the seven tendencies in the book and the money fears

and your money personality and how you grew up and they all are connecting it to themselves so it's fun that it already has connected even just in a brief discussion about it well and since we can't do like real launch parties and real book signings we are going to do a virtual launch party tomorrow night january the 6th wednesday night and another one on thursday night at 6 00 p.m is that right both of us yes correct 7 p.m

and uh okay i've got six on my notes so i don't know what's right but um do we know what's right is it seven or six okay i'm almost positive at seven okay i think i'm not great details i'm a free spirit so i might be late to myself this other note says this other note says seven so i'm pretty sure it's got one of each but

you find out it's on rachelcruise.com

yeah i'm pretty sure it's seven so virtual launch party rachelcruze.com you can ask her your money questions join the virtual launch party it's at seven seven p.m central time

yes both now we have clarification on that so um i will fix that i was right man you were right this paper was right this one was wrong which is kind of surprising that's it well no it's not you've got a couple things up in the air and you're memorizing all of it it's perfect so there you go 7 p.m wednesday night and thursday night january 6th

and 7th the virtual launch party you can go to rachelcruise.com to ask her your money questions okay so know yourself know your money the thing that is resonating is the way you grew up with money and the money tendencies the seven money tendencies are you scarcity or are you abundance right right yeah so the whole book really was this deep dive into understanding why so we talk about

the how to we've been doing that for decades now right how to get out of debt how to budget how to invest how to give and so i started really this process this was a few years ago where i remember diving into like the enneagram and learning about myself i was doing some counseling i read the book the birth order because i'm a middle child like seeing just how all of how

you were raised in your current environment affects how you see the world and your personality and i thought man what how does that relate to our money and it felt like this black hole of content because i was like there is so much here of why we view money the way we view it why we handle it why it's our habits and our person like all of that

and when you can start to get a grasp on that then you can start making effective change you can actually start to say okay i can change my money habits because i know when i'm being unhealthy in a certain place or where that's a great habit and i can magnify that so in turn it helps you win with money so much faster and gives you a lasting financial piece as an example

if you understand that you uh are scarcity versus abundance yes what does that do for you well so the seven money tendencies neither one's right or wrong uh on the on the extremes of these that can be unhealthy so for if you're an abundance mindset person you see the glass half full there's always more opportunity always more money to be made uh but the the bad side

the unhealthy of that is you can be unwise you can make unwise decisions because i think you can out earn your stupidity yes 100 you think oh it'll be fine i'll figure it out yeah me as you raise your hands i've always been able to make more money yeah so that's an abundance mindset so a more scarcity mindset you see the glass half empty and again if that's your natural bent that's not a bad thing you're a little bit more cautious a little bit more aware

but the unhealthy side of that when you go to the extreme you end up making decisions out of fear you hold your money tightly because you feel like it's finite you don't want to let go so you're not extremely generous you don't spend it in joy so that's unhealthy so these these um these tendencies to be able to pinpoint okay i can know when i'm going to those unhealthy extremes uh

so another uh tendency is

status versus security and this is why you want money some people want money for security they want to feel like they are taken care of that they're safe i feel good now again

the unhealthy side of that is they end up just stalking away and money ultimately is not your security like there's a level of faith in our life and all of that so that can be an unhealthy uh side status not bad and i'm more of this

i want i want money so that i can enjoy it so that i can buy things i can experience things i will budget so that i can spend like that's where i get my motivation now the unhealthy side of that is that your identity ends up being the things that you buy materialistic or your accomplishments that becomes who you are and that's not healthy so that's an interesting one to figure out why do people want to win with money

and we started this years ago i identified people doing budgets and you included that in the seven tendencies of being a nerd or free spirit and you guys have been through financial peace university 20 years ago heard all that yep and again the same thing the nerd can be

too uptight too detailed clamp down the free spirit free spirit's there for you to have fun and free spirits have to be mature enough to live on a plan so that they get to do more free spiriting that kind of stuff know yourself know your money you can go to daveramsey.com rachelcruise.com discover why you handle money the way you do

and what to do about it it is on sale

officially today it's book launch day this is the dave ramsey show

we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs chm is not health insurance but it is

christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills the medical bill sharing from chm was exactly the way the website described it there were no surprises no bait and switch no hidden agenda chm did everything they said they would by sharing all of our eligible needs we like that it's a non-profit ministry and that we were being better stewards of our money all while helping other families established in 1981

and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org

backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

[Applause]

so rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today we're answering questions about life and money on the

book launch day for know yourself know your money by rachel soon to be her latest number one danielle is with us in

richmond virginia hi danielle welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave how are you better than i deserve what's up so my daughter is three and she was

diagnosed with leukemia at the beginning of april so we pause

our vet snowball and my question is at what point do you start it up again

she still has about two years left of treatment and as we we just weren't sure when to

start it up again yeah takes my breath away um

how's she doing she's doing very well

um treatment's moving right along where we need to be kids are resilient that's what i have to say they're the kids are amazing when they fight this um it's the rest of us that fall apart [Laughter] oh my gosh uh uh

well you got a long slog here

and job one is beat cancer right

yes we don't have any other jobs to do that's our only job yes anything else is like a side gig

agreed yes including including

restarting your debt snowball including all that kind of stuff so let's just say that uh number one it doesn't matter

when you restart it what does matter is that you do everything you can with money time effort spirit prayer everything and you pour everything into this job one okay and it's all consuming and it should be

and it's what you do so let's do that

now you are kind of past the fog of some

of that and you're kind of in the rhythm of the treatments given that it's coming up on the first year right yes

and so if things are in a wacky world

that you're in somewhat normalized the rhythm is somewhat predictable and you have extra cash beyond what you

need to fight cancer

and you want to start back a little bit that's okay i would not expect quote unquote gazelle intensity because i would not expect that of myself were i facing this

but by the way it's perfectly okay with me from from the using the principles that we teach to do absolutely nothing towards your money except pile up cash any extra cash you have you need to not go crazy and go into a bunch of debt with quote grief spending or something like that or or justification or rationalization well we can do anything we want to do because we've got

this problem no because you got to go back and clean up the mess you make and so don't make a mess right but but pile up cash that would have gone towards debt and if you want to just wait until the three years has gone and then restart that's okay with me too rachel what are your thoughts well danielle's curious how much how much debt do you guys have all right we've paid off

the cars we never got credit cards so the only thing we have under student loans which is 42 000 yeah household income is what

65 i believe yeah yeah i mean my

husband's active duty military so it's been a blessing having a steady paycheck during this for sure yeah i mean i'm i mean i have a three-year-old danielle so i can't even imagine like it kind of just makes me tear up talking to you because i'm like i can't even go there emotionally because it's so terrible so i mean if that was me i think everything else in my life just pauses um and i focus on on my on my child

so i'm yeah i'm with i'm with dave right there where if you choose to do nothing for two years until treatment's over 100 okay um because yeah that is your

number one thing but if you had forty two thousand dollars in savings when that happened

the you know at the end of three years that wouldn't be that be the way to do it okay in other words it's not you're not gonna again sli slide over and misbehave

but you're just not gonna pay down on the debt and have no not enough money in savings to deal with something because you might need to jump on an airplane and do something right um and uh to get a treatment it's almost like they know when someone's pregnant we always say just pause for nine months wait till the baby's here wait till everyone's good and healthy and

then whatever money you've saved then you can put towards the debt you can almost think of it like that like a two-year pause we're gonna just pile up cash okay when everything's good and the treatment and everything is done and she's healthy on the other side whatever you've piled up of savings then you can just throw at the debt yeah but don't go buy a new car no right

and say that that's

okay because of the mess you're in you made a bigger mess and people do that sometimes they they um well money is a coping mechanism yeah you push you you push your spending over like food's a coping mechanism you put your spending over to deal with the stress of this and the grief of having to fight this

and all of that so yeah that that's just guard against that and that's what a lot of people dealt with not this specifically but in 2020 the 43

of americans spent because of stress and anxiety during the pandemic

so you see the rise of spending to feel good is what is what you're talking about and 44 can't fit in anything but their sweatpants i just made that up but yeah i mean there's that too so [Music] [Laughter] but i mean yeah food and money or coping mechanisms yeah and alcohol i mean there's a lot there's a lot of magnets alcohol sales are through the roof they're almost as good as plexiglas sales okay

so anyway so so danielle the banner statement is making sure your spending is not just to cope but just for you guys to save pause take care of that baby owen is with us in newark new jersey hey owen your question for rachel and me well congratulations rachel on your book thank you owen i'm graduating you're awesome i'm graduating in may and i have a very generous job lined up

and i was wondering how you would advise a 22 year old who's transitioning from being a college student making a full-time income um of course i'm going to get my emergency fund set up and using my full 401k match but uh there's going through leftover income and i don't want to waste it oh and do you have any debt currently when you graduate you have student loans or credit card debt no

i was fortunate enough to get a nice dollar sister oh awesome amazing uh i mean yeah i mean i would say oh and number one the fact you're asking the question is encouraging because you're gonna be starting this process at 22 which is incredible so yeah i mean it's exactly what you just said just making having some cash on the side for an emergency fund three to six months of expenses

and then looking into retirement and funding that 15 from there and then and even in the process if i wouldn't buy a house right out of college but having some savings if you want to save up for a down payment on a home because you know that may be coming later in life doing that too how much are you going to be making at your new job uh 157 plus a little stock good night owen what are

you doing what's your duet software

software development yes yeah software engineering okay wow nice owen that's a great very impressive young man that's a very good very impressive out of college to give you an idea i made exactly 10 when i came out of college or what you're going to be making when you come out 34. so

yeah i think you have a bright future sir you're going to be okay don't screw it up wow got a free ride somehow and comes

out smart i'm scared

yeah we didn't have any of those either

hey hey hey no i'm talking about me too

oh and that's awesome way to go owen way to go yeah just save up some money pile up some money and get ready for your home purchase above your emergency fund above 15 of your income i think you already knew the answer to this congratulations you are a stud well done okay so how do you feel sitting in your chair doing the show how long have you been doing

the show 30 30 years you're getting more young people calling you than ever before would you say i think it's a youtube thing okay the demographic on youtube do you feel like a grandfather of america or you're like these young i used to be i used to be your peer when you called and i have evolved into uh then i went to uncle dave and now i'm just straight up papa dave yeah there's no question about

it yeah i mean the the guys calling are younger than my kids no if that didn't happen 30 years no

it didn't it was like guys in their 60s calling you hey back in the day right no well i mean still i'll say great america there's a hope for the future there's a lot of young people like owens that's awesome well and i'll bet you dollars to donuts that he was a youtube listener probably not an am

probably crazy or something i don't know he could be you never know but um there's how it works wow that's awesome owen so proud of you sir very well done salute you and your parents well done this is the dave ramsey show

[Music]

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[Music]

ramsey personality best-selling author rachel cruz is my co-host today always

joining me but today is a special day it's launch day for her new book know yourself know your money the team around here in high gear with marketing and uh

appearances rachel is doing including good morning america in the morning be sure you jump on around 8 28 15 you'll see her showing up around then know yourself know your money discover why you handle the money handle money the way you do and

what to do about it a little inside

baseball for those of you don't know how things work behind the scenes you would not believe that putting a

title on a book and a subtitle on a book is many times

more difficult than writing the book yes

the crap we go through around here to figure out what how to name something uh to where when you read it

you go okay that's what the book's about meaning it the title is prescriptive and uh and the title doesn't need a subtitle to explain it but helps explain it and not having a subtitle that is in itself a book i mean there are so many things violated by authors and publishers every day and we spend an inordinate amount of time emotional energy and money and creativity studying

these things and testing these things before they come out we probably looked at 40 different titles for this didn't we yeah it was it was a lot because it was hard because i'm like it's kind it's not the psychology of money it's not your money personality i mean like what how do you how do you put it in four words yeah five words six words i mean

it was

it is one of the more difficult things it's a surprising thing and you know why one of the reasons is so surprising was i accidentally was brilliant with my first book

i had no idea no i really was i mean

financial financial peace is a genius title that is a world-class title of a book but it's just like who thought i i just jesus i just dreamed it up and thank you god for giving me that idea because i had no marketing team i had no body to test the title i just said you know what that's what it's about it's about having peace in your finances and everybody will understand that and it works so well and every book after then has been a labor to try to put a my worst title

is more than enough that sucks

i really you know and it's the worst selling book i've ever done too you think it's because the title yeah well no the book is awesome no there's multiple reasons i won't get into all of them but some are my fault some of them might be the publisher but the uh uh but the book itself is awesome once you get into it but very few people have read

it there you go okay so it's just there you go it's a process you guys morgan is with us in jacksonville florida hi morgan welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave and rachel um so i just had a

christian um me and my husband we bought a house eight months ago out in the country it's like a it's a really beautiful house it's on a on a small river on a small river third acre or a third yeah third of an acre but um we thought it was a manufactured home and it's actually a modular home um but you really can't tell because it has like a big porch

and like a detached garage and things and so we've been like putting a lot into it because we like kind of want to be like our family home and um but we recently have just discovered that it has like two very very large problems and one of them one of them it's not technically a problem yet but it will be a problem um in the next few years

and so we were

we were trying to see if we would we should stay in this house or if it would be wise to like stay in this house for as long as we wanted we were hope we were wanting to stay for like seven to nine years until we like outgrow the house but um we were just wondering if like i don't know if we could get the money back if we did fix the larger issue and so i

was just wondering if you guys would advise that we should leave the house what are the two things what are the two things what do they cost and what'd you pay for the house um so we paid 156 for the house um

and one of the problems we recently discovered that there was water damage in the mudroom and so we that's like the

urgent problem that we currently are having to go back in our baby steps into our emergency fund to fix because there's like mold and rotting wood on in the floor and um but

what's that going to cost what's that going to cost i'm hoping under 10 000. okay so what's the other problem

um it's a foundation problem we've recently had a lot of cracking in the house there was already a lot of cracking but the cracks have gotten wider just in the eight months that we've been here and so um the guy that we had come out today he said that with doing it at the very

cheapest it was probably going to be 15

000 but he couldn't even do it and so the people that could do it are a much more expensive

um company so they would

they would probably be more around twenty thousand six he said he said that he did he did say that yeah okay so you don't have enough information yet your feelings are hurt that your new house is broken

okay yeah you don't have a financial catastrophe okay fix the mud room get five bids

and spend six months studying the foundation before you make a decision on it foundation repair is full of

the people that do it are uh there are groups of people that do it that are wonderful people and there's a bunch of jack legs that just make up crap as they're going and i think that's who you met today well he was he yeah i know he was nice but you he also didn't know how to fix it he also gave you an estimate about what

another person's company would charge you which is making up crap he pulled that out of his ear he had to call the the other company we called the other company and we called the manufacturer of the house and they were saying that we would only because it has like this mental uh like this protection underneath this insulated protection in the crawl space he said that we would um like

he said we'd have to get a specific kind of foundation specialist which there's a it's like a really small town we live in and so the closest one

um had you've had three conversations and you're ready to move okay don't do it fix the mud room and spend six months studying the foundation getting more bids talking to more people finding more ways to fix it there's a lot of things you can do to foundations there's more than just one possible fix and there's certainly more than just one possible company even if

you're quote unquote out in the country you can

pay people five thousand dollars and they will come out in the country and fix this for seven i don't know i'm making this up but you don't know this yet and so you've got to gather more

information when's the point that you would say no yeah you need to move that it's not worth fixing because in order to sell it you got to fix it you have to disclose yeah you have to fix it or you have to disclose it right one of the two i mean if it was an 80 000 repair on this i'd have a lawsuit against the seller for not disclosing

you know at that point the people that sold it to them and the real estate agents are involved and the home inspector that missed the inspection which by the way never buy a home without an inspection and these are the reasons right here so you don't get your heart broken on the thing that you thought you were going to be in love with for nine years and now

you find out you got mud room with mold and a crack foundation so foundations in

different states and in different regions are sitting on different kinds of soil and there's all kinds of different situations um with you being in florida you're probably sitting on some version of sand and um so you know it's probably some version of slab and i don't know you gotta you just have to look at it and get in there and figure out what they do in tennessee

the fix would be different than it is in florida but i have owned over 2000 pieces of real estate i did rehabs for a living for a decade and one thing i know

is is that it's guys working on houses are kind of like doctors they are practicing that's why they call

it a medical practice they're making crap up as they go and

they proved that during covid they didn't know what they were doing and so they just did stuff and so they're practicing medicine

and some of them are better at practicing than others and none of them apparently are good at math but the same thing is true of foundational people they're practicing they're trying to figure it out and they're looking at three little cracks and trying to figure out how to fix your house you need more information before you shut the economy down that's what you're going to do this is the dave ramsey show

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this coming tuesday night we want to do something to help you guys kick off your new year right with money after last year a lot of people will raise their hand and say i need to reset i need to restart

i need to get get a do-over i need a whiteboard i need to start fresh and i'm ready to set go so we are doing a reset live stream

live from lifechurch.tv in oklahoma city

this coming tuesday night at

7 p.m central time that's january the 12th at 7 pm central time it is free it will be me

rachel cruz chris hogan and pastor craig

groschel and uh rachel will be covering some of the material from know yourself know your money i will of course be talking with chris chris hogan and i'll be talking about how to walk you through the baby steps and how to do your reset and pastor craig has an incredible he's a world-class communicator uh talk on discipline that i have

loved and i asked him to do it it's really good and so um looking forward to this it's gonna be an absolutely incredible night it is completely free how do i watch you

say dave well here's the deal you text the word reset 233 789

text reset to seven 33

nine and it is a free did i mention it's free live stream this tuesday night that's gonna be fun oh it's me great i think that the content is

really spot on for where we are right early 2021 we did message of hope we did that we did a couple of things in 2020 to kind of set the course and i think that this event it is going to launch people into a new year to gain a new control over specifically their money but also their life like you said the discipline um talk from craig can be applied in every aspect of your life but really getting your money under control this year i think it's something that so many people feel i wonder i'm sure stats will come out later in the year resolutions money's always in the top three but i wonder if it even rises to the top of the top because of 2020.

can't protect everything you're still going to die you know there's lots of things people still get sick you can't control any of that that's not the point but wealth doesn't buy any of that anyway all it does is give you the ability to manage the process you know as you're going through and it gives you lots of options to do things and if you need to buy an airline ticket to go visit a sick relative

you don't have to think about it because you've got the money but when when you need to buy an airline ticket to visit a sick relative and you're broke now you have two crises a financial crisis and a sick relative and so you've got all of these things going on and this is your chance to reset and not leave yourself vulnerable again text the word reset to 33789 it's

this coming tuesday night we want you there there's already over 65 000 people registered to watch this it is going to be the largest live stream we've ever done it's uh it's going to be probably 150 000 people by the time the uh the by the time the numbers are in next tuesday so we're really really excited about this all right jake is with us jake's in portland oregon hi jake welcome to

the dave ramsey show hi dave and rachel thanks for taking my call sure what's up hi i have a question so this year i became debt free i followed the baby steps and i'm debt free and i've got approximately 70 000 in the bank with um that's including my emergency fund my issue is that my mother and my

older brother with mental disabilities live in a dilapidated house that's owned by my grandpa she's been living in it for 17 years without paying any kind of rent and he refuses to maintain it at all so it hasn't had anything done to it in 17 years it's currently falling apart it has mold in it it has holes in the wall i mean it's it's pretty bad i've been running the numbers and i think it's going to be about a hundred thousand dollar remodel so my question is should i buy this house from my grandpa and then put the money in out of my savings into doing the remodel even though i may not have enough right now or do i say you know forget this house and then move them out into a different house because this is an unhealthy situation and i'm not sure how to fix this situation at the moment what do you make of here i make about 110 000.

you're an extraordinary young man willing and able to do this for your mom and your brother with disabilities well done um so

what i always think of is what is the most efficient way financially and time-wise to accomplish

the goal and the goal is for your mother and brother to have a place to live that's not mold infested and falling through

okay so um

now there's two things you can do uh

what would i do if i were in your shoes is your home paid for i actually sold my home at the beginning of the pandemic and now i'm renting really cheap so i lowered my living expenses by 75 percent by renting [Music] so at some point again you will buy and move on with your life in that part of your world are you single yes sir okay

all right um i would do a two-step procedure if i were in your shoes one is i would move them out into an inexpensive rental immediately

and just pay for it

you make a ton of money and you have a ton of money in comparison to them and by the way a few months of rent is a lot less than buying a house for a hundred thousand dollars or remodeling a house for a hundred thousand dollars you can rent a long long time for a hundred grand right yes sir okay so we don't do this

forever but my point is use of your cash and burning of your cash if you rented them a property for two years what could you rent it for

uh yeah approximately around there it would be about 1300 a month i believe okay all right and so um

you know i'm probably going to cheat on that and say let's let's try to they're living in a dump now let's try to make it a thousand that's twelve thousand if you did for two years that'd be twenty four thousand dollars right yes sir okay and that's a sizable upgrade from where they are during that two years save money

and buy an inexpensive property that is

way nicer than they're living in now

and pay cash for it and just let them live there okay and i think you could probably pull that off in two years couldn't you yes sir i think so and then you would move on with you buying a house for you later do not move in with them and do not combine your household do not combine your households in order to make this financial goal happen okay that is not what i'm suggesting okay but uh where do they live uh they live

down in arkansas where in arkansas uh northwest arkansas around fayetteville yeah okay so you can buy

you can uh 4x of their living situation

for uh 75 grand to 100 grand can't you

yes sir okay yeah i mean that's a palace compared to where they're living definitely yeah and just pay cash for it and then all you gotta do is make sure that the taxes are paid the insurance is kept up and um that your mom keeps the utilities paid which she's probably doing now right um barely she's got a business that wasn't doing very well before the pandemic

and now it's just stuck a knife in it so it's going to go out of business so she has zero income at this point yeah how old is she uh in her early 50s

time for her to have another income yes sir and that's uh something we talked about but if she fights against it yeah well sitting on your butt is not going to work it's you know this is an option so you can be generous to a point but we're not going to be an enabler either so um you're a fine young man that's how i would do it i would rent something for uh probably less than a thousand now

that i've learned a little more and uh yeah and then some you know good area but it's an expensive area yeah and so and good people uh but i i would

uh yeah rent something inexpensively for

a couple years pile up some cash pay cash for it and then move on with your financial goals but also a part of that is she needs to be able to maintain it and she needs to be able to uh get her career moving again she is in her early 50s and this is a requirement of the future of her life she has a 90 year life expectancy that's a long time

from 52.

this is the dave ramsey show

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welcome to the dave ramsey show you can

be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you

are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice hi i'm

dave ramsey your host rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today we're taking your calls about life and money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight

eight two five five two two five happy

new year america it is time for you to get a fresh start on your money and part of what we're doing at ramsey to help you do that is we're launching a brand new book today by rachel cruz it has been over a year in the making know yourself know your money is officially on sale another number one i'm pretty sure we haven't gotten the numbers in yet we won't for a week but i'm pretty confident of that um congratulations thank you

it's exciting it's weird it's always weird with book launch day because again it's a project you worked on for so long and now it's out there and yeah my hope is people love it and

it helps them i mean it's kind of a new way of looking at the way you handle money and it's really dives into your decision making how you're wired why you do the things you do and it's it's really exciting i'm looking down the back of it and i knew we did this but now that i look at it in this setting it's pretty impressive the endorsements on the back of the book are marcus buckingham uh dr henry cloud candace cam cameron

puree is that is that pronounced

yeah and well i mean you loved her back when she was on full house when you were a little kid so there you go bobby bones of course our buddy here in nashville that's a country music um icon uh

radio radio icon i guess i should say christine kane another icon and the minimalists so uh and apparently their new

uh netflix thing may have dropped because i'm getting some comments on social about my appearance on it yeah i think it's out so i think it must have hit so uh those guys are great the minimalist oh they're awesome awesome awesome and they obviously love you quite a wonderful quote i did their minimalist challenge um i write about it in the book but it's fascinating because it's all about understanding

so one of the tendencies is do you do are you quality or quantity when we talked about the seven tendencies earlier in the show and so i am quantity like i would rather have inexpensive things but have 20 pairs of earrings versus like one nice pair of earrings so that's always been my bent it's always kind of how i've shopped and i just i just had so much crap like

i have so much stuff so they're minimalist challenges you take a calendar month and every day whatever the date is you use that number to give away

something sell something throw it out so if it's the 14th of the month there's 14 items around your house you got to get and get rid of and you do it every and it's number one is so great just minimizing your life and just getting stuck i mean oh i can't remember

the number now i can't do the math that quick but yeah i write about in the book but it's amazing so it's they're they're awesome and i totally believe in their message because i mean it's and again so much of even this book there's that level of not letting stuff absolutely consume you and i think that's a level and a reason people just go into debt and i think a lot of life problems masquerade themselves as money problems so you look at a debt problem

and it can either be through consumption of things you can't afford it there can be a contentment issue there could be a planning issue you're not planning your money well so you're using debt i mean all of it it all fits together in this huge cycle and i love kind of connecting all the dots know yourself know your money so one of the tendencies is quantity versus quality

and as you say in the book neither one are bad neither one or good it's only when you go to the extreme of one of them that's right yep so the moderation is ideal right you kind of have i knew a lady in our neighborhood who would buy coupon stuff and she had like 7 000 jars of peanut butter in her basement not quite but it felt like

it when i was a little kid like enough jars of peanut butter to last you into the millennial right and i was a little kid so a long time ago so i mean that could even be a scarcity mindset too of like this fear of oh gosh oh gosh that's almost like a prepper before there were preppers but yeah but our coupon are gone crazy i don't know

but i mean that's a that's a yeah it's almost i mean that's like it is hoarding it's a borderline it was real organized so it wasn't hurting but um but yeah the uh she had the organizer lady come before she was born too

but but yeah

and one of them one of the spectrums that you that we gauge ourselves on in the book is experiences versus things things yeah so would you rather spend money on an experience or a thing would you rather go out to eat or would you rather have a nice shirt right exactly and where and where the tension can be in this it's not as much as the extremes

but relational tension comes up a lot in this so married couples when you value spending money on different things or different ways that's where conflict can come in you are experienced off the chain yes and winston is not no he's all things i mean even when we were first married it was like our first i think it really was our first year of marriage we'd go out to dinner

and he'd always get water and i was like please just get a glass of wine or get a coke like i don't care just like let's get a drink and enjoy and he's like babe i'm good i'm good with my water because i can take my seven dollars and go buy a two liter coke or a bottle

of wine or whatever it is and and for a while it just always frustrated me a little bit i was like man just like enjoy he's like i'm good he genuinely was so good he's like i'm good and then as i was like flushing out this book thing about swords i was like that's it like that's a prime example of he just doesn't really value experiences he enjoys

it and it's fine but where i want the whole elaborate thing he's like no i'm good and yeah it just makes me laugh even our christmas lists our christmas lists are 100 different i'm like i want a small gift card i want a zoo membership with the kids like i want all this experience and he's like i want alexa light bulbs so i can turn on my living room

when i can say alexa

yeah like that's winston he's like no because for him it's like i value if i work hard and make money no alexa light bulbs were a thing oh yeah lord jesus no we won't get to the conspiracies of everything but anyways so i'm like yeah like that is that is a real thing so when you budget and sit down as a couple especially if you're getting out of debt

and you're having to make sacrifices like where you're putting your money there can be tension so there's just the warning flag of that that that's where conversations can come into play saver versus suspender yes that's a tendency and again extremes not good you don't want to be a hoarder on the saver side you don't want to spend everything you make on that side but being able to name

it so are you experienced or things i'm experienced your experience okay yeah are you quality or quantity or your quantity or quality your quality

yeah yeah like i don't i don't really care um

you know you buy a lot i do you're a

spender i'm k i'm a spender i'm definitely a spender but i uh but it's not quite but i yeah i'm not gonna if i go to buy a whatever i want the best one a pair of boots you don't need like yeah i don't have no desire to have six pairs of boots i really have one really good pair that i can wear the rest of my life yeah get some good cowboy boots yeah that's i've got a pair that i've had for 20 years yeah

there you go that's it that's it we'll probably have them for 20 more but and they look great so shut up yeah sure sure they do

sure they did polish up oh old-fashioned thing we used to polish our shoes not throw them away but yeah so know yourself know your money rachel cruz's new book is out on the stand you can find it anywhere great books are sold amazon daveramsey.comrachelcruise.com

target barnes noble books noble walmart

uh you can find it it's out there good morning america in the morning be watching at around 8 15 8 20 rachel will be on talking about the book so check it out this is the dave ramsey show

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what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air it's book launch day for her new book know yourself know your money there is a virtual launch party

january 6 that would be tomorrow night for most of you in january 7th thursday night wednesday and thursday night two different virtual launch parties at 7 pm central time

and that's it rachelcruze.com you can go live and ask her your money questions and participate in this book launch if

you'd like we'd love to have you again just go to rachelcruise.com and sign up for the virtual launch party wednesday or thursday night this week at 7 pm jesse is with us in grand rapids michigan hi jesse welcome to the dave ramsey show hi thank you so much for everything you've taught we are just having a lot of fun my husband and i um built our dream house four years ago

we went into the steps baby steps about 15 months ago and i didn't think we'd get through them as fast as we did but we're already on step six wow great yeah we feel good so i'm kind

of a nerd i punch the numbers every day and i've gotten a little addicted to this mortgage payoff calculator good and

so you know i arbitrarily picked a number to save for our two kids for college they're currently ages six and eight and we're putting 150 for each kid into

an esa but i'm seeing if i you know i don't want to borrow and rearrange these steps because i know that's my pet peeve when people call in but can i or should i lower

that dollar amount in the esa in order to put more on the house or should i just leave that be just stay calm and just pay it off we're currently saving cash for a barn so anything extra right now we're putting aside to build our barn i'm just wondering your thoughts

how much money do you guys have saved in the usa so far each in the esa are only about i'd say four grand for each kid what's your household income

about 200 000. and what do you owe in your home 217. what's the barn cost

uh we estimated about 60 and we have

we have 25 000 saves currently okay

so um 200 a month is 2400

a year

that doesn't really move the needle on barns or houses okay i mean you can if you want

but it's not really going to move it that much what's moving it what has moved you along so fast is your all's attention to detail and your intentionality i mean you have this wonderful income and you're using it to accomplish your financial goals way to go touchdown so

technically to answer your question about rearranging the baby steps you know we just say baby step five saving for college we don't say how much because it ranges so much whether you've got little kids older kids what your household income is all that kind of junk as to what you can put in and still accomplish your baby and still be putting something towards baby step six but um if you wanted to back it down to fifty dollars it's okay but my point is it's 2400 a year

yeah i just like i said that mortgage calculator on your website is amazing and you can see what an extra you know we're putting we're paying eight hundred dollars extra a month on our mortgage currently

and giving for a bargain yeah yeah so when you get the barn finished so you're estimating if you stay on your current path the barn will be done and the house will be paid for when um 2000 in about

six years five years five years yeah that's what i was going to guess okay so doing this change doing this changes it four months okay okay

i made that up but i'm not far off it might be it might be five months it might be three months the dave calculator it's 20 but it's 2400 i mean over five years so that's ten thousand dollars that's right yeah it's not it's not going to move the needle on it's not gonna change if it changed your payoff on your home by five years or three years or something like that yeah maybe but when it changes it by a month or two months or three months now i wouldn't do it

jesse you're what's your husband what's he saying is he is he on board too or is he kind of like oh we can kind of chill a little bit oh yeah no he he started listening to dave in a am radio van when he was a landscaper when he started dating so he's he's so chill and he just says you know the the growth that we'll gain in

the esa is better than the low interest on the mortgage if the growth on the esa account yeah and keep it going yeah so the technical baby step answer is you can do either i probably would stay with your current plan because i don't think it moves the needle that much to change it and i think you'll be glad you put money into the usa i'm really not even worried about

the growth on the essay versus a mortgage bound you know that that you know that would lend you to say i'm going to load the essay up i'm going to put even more in but right now you you're touching the base which is what you want to do on baby step five you want to do something towards kids college and then you moved on to do the other stuff

so yeah and she's she's an example of the nerd not quite on the extreme because i don't think you're unhealthy by any means in that sense but she's running numbers she's calculating it's almost like you want to be gazelle intense through these baby steps and you're not supposed to you're supposed to back off so the fact you guys are saving for a barn i think it's awesome like yeah

you can just yeah take a breath even though you're crunching the numbers and you're seeing the difference of what you're paying just an interest even for two years of a home having a mortgage versus not i think all that's awesome that you're feeling what a free spirit doesn't understand that is that when nerds like uh jesse and me are running these numbers that's actually fun for us well

she said i had a lot of fun we're not we're not we're not fretting it's not bothering us this is like what we do instead of watching netflix we would rather run numbers on something it's just more fun than watching an oprah rerun you know so uh we actually get joy out of this i know it's hard for people to grasp but don't think that way but all

the nerds are out there going yes spreadsheets rule yes and so you know but that's you know again if you turn it if you turn it all the way over to where it becomes an obsession then you're wrong and she didn't no she didn't that's why i said she but i'm saying she's a perfect example of a nerd yeah because she's loving it and her husband's just kind of like hey

we got this yes yeah and so very very intentional good job jesse you guys have done a wonderful job with your money so proud of you yes i don't think there's oprah uh anymore oh well probably somewhere

ben is in niagara falls ontario hi ben

how are you good how are you guys better than i deserve how can we help um well i have a bit of a morality question for you um so my wife and i

uh are trying to pay off our debt so i used to be driving uh like a really cheap junker car

um and now you you always say that like

mama gets a good car right and um we actually moved over new year's

like christmas new year's now she lives she lives or she's five

minutes away from her work and i i have about a 40-minute commute so i've been driving like a good car and she's been driving to junker um it just it doesn't quite feel right to me that that it's that way but i'm worried about the reliability of the the junker obviously [Music] well i don't know what the law is in canada but in the united states it's illegal for you to drive the good car

i'm kidding it's federal law mama gets a good car um does she care ben is she good

or does she want to yeah like she she doesn't care this is just like this is just something i i have a problem with you have like a conviction that like oh you feel bad that you're driving the nice car and your wife's not i think you're okay because you guys are only gonna be in baby step two for how much longer um about 10 months yeah

why don't you switch every other week

yeah i guess you could do that i don't know i just made that up i have no idea but i mean it has to do with it has to do with how everybody feels about it and more than it does the reality obviously if the stupid car breaks one of you's got a problem and canada is a bit wee bit cold this time of year so um

you know i you know you don't want her stuck out in the cold for sure i mean that literally could be dangerous uh depending on your situation so but she's five minutes from work i know it's still complete no yeah absolutely but the i don't walk four minutes in that stuff but the uh um yeah i

you know you can switch out or you know as long as the thing is not giving you any trouble you can drive it i i it's all it's a

joke but it's um about marriage relationships and

you know understanding sacrifice all the way through this thing so you're not an evil guy either way ben it was a joke but everybody gets the joke because mama gets the good car has a sense of gallantry

gallantry to it civility to it you this

is the dave ramsey show

if you're financially conscious you know that healthcare expenses can take a big bite out of your budget christian healthcare ministries or chm is here to help trim those expenses and make sure your family is cared for chm is not health insurance but it is

christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills most people have the means to pay for basic doctor services but when it comes to something on a much larger scale say several thousand dollars for surgery or hospitalization folks are worried they'll be left to try and find a way to pay for that themselves not too long ago i was diagnosed with ovarian cancer and they really came through

so far we've had over a hundred and eighty thousand dollars worth of bills and got close to seventy five percent discounts chm shared the rest of the expenses to see if chm is right for you and your budget check out chministries.org backslash budget

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so

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rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author launching a new book today know yourself know your money discover why you handle money the way you do and what to do about it is my co-host today our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online

retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question

comes from marilee in nevada

i just paid off my student loans back in june i just finished the legacy journey through ramsey plus and would love to begin a giving category in my monthly budget and baby step three i already give 10 of my income as a tithe to my local church but i'm wondering how to create something a little more how do i address the numbers is there a recommendation on how to start giving past your tithe do

you have any recommendations on which organizations get started with or even how to begin giving i want to do my research before i give money away if that makes sense yeah that definitely makes sense um i mean we we always recommend 10 no matter where you are in the baby steps and the whole process the baby steps is to give a little until you can give a lot

and obviously that a lot huge explanation point is on baby step seven once you have your house paid for you have no debt kids college is taking care of your fund your retirement then you're able to give a ton of your income because you have a lot of all your income coming in because you have no debt so if you do still want to start giving a little bit more

and you're on baby step three i'm i think that's great you can i would up it maybe just a few percentage points right now i really want that emergency fund for you because once you have that stability then you're going to be able to give beyond that 10 for sure so i would recommend just a few percentage points if you want to right now a lot of organizations especially

if they're 501 c 3s they have to publish their budgets on their website they have to make that public so you can go in and look to see how much of the money coming into the organization is going to fees or administration or to the actual

mission of what they're doing you can look at all of that get a feel talk about it i mean we take giving pretty seriously here ramsey what we talk about is how much you spend on your retirement account and investments is the time you need to spend on what you're giving i mean you as a as a believer you have been given

resources and to put it back out to help people you want to make sure you're doing it really efficiently so i think you researching organizations is smart um what to get started with i mean anything you're passionate about that's i think one of the best things about our world today is through the internet social media there are so many organizations out there anything you you love and have a heart for whether it's foster care or rescuing people out of human trafficking digging wells for fresh water in africa helping

the homeless community i mean like anything that you have a heart for there's probably an organization that helps with that mission so just race i would start there of what you love yeah and we have chosen

to give substantially to a few with the ramsey family foundation not to give 500 to a bazillion different people uh

and spread it out then instead we'd rather make an impact on a handful and so if i were in your situation merely just getting started i would just pick one for now there's always

more valid needs and

valid ministries filling those needs than there is money free that you have anyway there's always more and so you cannot be everywhere and don't try to be everywhere don't dilute and don't give a dollar to 500 organizations give 500 to one or whatever it is you're much better off to do that your life's much simpler you won't get as many emails you won't get invited as many dinners you get charity fatigue

you do you do you get philanthropy fatigue and so you're not going to get there with all that just keep it real clean and real simple and do some research like you're saying you're going to do and and the way we pick the ministries that we support we usually know something about them or they're one degree of separation personally one of the ramses do and or

one of us had one of the ramses has a passion for that category uh and that's how they end up in the

uh it is a very personal thing with

ramsey family foundation is how we do it with our giving as a family uh and so that's how we would recommend you do it and i you know in your case once you finish baby step three beyond the tithe if you want to just put a flat a dollar amount to start and go okay i'm gonna do 500 more a month or whatever just make up a number

i don't care what it is once you get further along i'd recommend a percentage in addition to the 10 on your tithe i would give another x percent to other things and that's how

we do it at our house and then no matter what your income becomes over the years you've still got your formula and you'll always be as you make more you'll always be giving more automatically and you don't have to stop and rethink and all that kind of stuff you can choose to increase your percentage if you wanted to later on but that's not always necessary either don is with us in grand rapids michigan hey don welcome to

the dave ramsey show hey how's it going great man how can we help a question about um where to put my

retirement fund so i'm 11 payments away my wife and i are 11 payments away from being out of our inverted 3b

and then we will have you know we'll be

right into the retirement section of it so so if i know your order of retirement

typically but if i max out my raw

401k at work she's a contract bookkeeper

so she can do a roth um 401k set up for her

and then and then um we could do

roth ira a roth you know iras

right i have an option at work to do a hsa so i'm wondering if i should do an hsa because that's kind of like double tax incentivized i don't pay taxes going in or coming out i know i don't get the growth that i would but i'm just trying to figure out how to best place that last a little bit

the hsa if you use it for medical is a double because you take the tax uh deduction

it's not really because you take the tax deduction and then you don't pay taxes on it as you use it and so it's really just once and you can get the growth on it uh check out a company called health equity that's who we have our hsa savings with and they have mutual fund options i have never used my hsa for health issues knock on wood uh consequently i've got a couple hundred thousand bucks in

it because i just load it up every year it's yet one more way i can max out things and if once your home's paid for um you know you max out everything so you you take advantage of everything at your fingertips and that would be both roths uh both 401k roths and the hsa

but you get a tax deduction when you go into the hsa and you don't pay taxes on it when it comes out so that is uh like tax free

use of that money if you use it

for health and you would you use that

before the roth ira no i would use the

roth first because it's growth it's tax-free growth regardless of what you use it for okay that's what i thought you want to make sure thank you yeah hey thank you for the call open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five carrie is in dallas texas hi carrie

happy new year hey hey dave happy new

year to you too and thanks for taking my call sure what's up um okay so i'm your problem child

i have lots of credit card debt

um to the tune of 70 000

dollars in credit card debt and yeah

and i um you know purchased

my first home um four years ago almost

and lots of things went wrong

with it but that wasn't all the debt

and um i was given advice from

a friend a year ago to just stop paying

the credit card debt they were all zero percent and all the interest rates started i knew they were about to skyrocket and it was going to get to the point when i couldn't even make minimum payments anymore and so they just said quit paying just

stop paying and i did try to call several of them and they weren't willing to negotiate anything with me they they didn't want to talk to me because i was current on everything yeah and i had always been of course

so now they're all coming full circle all right i'll tell you what hold on we come back from this break we'll get the rest of your story and see if we can help you this is the dave ramsey show

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five we're talking with carrie in dallas texas she ran up seventy thousand dollars in credit card debt as the interest rates went from zero to

full-blown as they always do she was unable to make the payments her friend suggested she stop and that's about how far we got in the conversation what else is going on miss carrie yes sir well i started working your program last month i reached out and a financial advisor

found me and we've already met she's got me on a budget

she i've done plastic surgery

i've done all her homework we're meeting friday again for the new update

things are actually going great i was going to say you actually while you're out of control you're starting to feel in control i'm more in control i mean that's the first time i've ever been on a budget before um i i checked out every dollar but i think with all this default debt i felt that you need a budget or y in

ab.com was better for me

i don't because of all this unknown i don't know i don't know um

okay yeah it's going to be much better you just need to run two debt snowballs is all okay so i've got all my default debt um i i settled or i just settled and paid

two of them i knocked two of the cards off myself i got summons for two others through the same collection agency or law firm and

i did get a lawyer for the first one and could kick myself because i realized i could do it myself

so we he settled for me on the first one

and then i guess it gave me the template to know how to do it so that's what i paid for but i settled the second one my question is um on the debt snowball

with those

they're going to be coming at me you know the different amounts are coming at me and once it goes i get

a summons i've got to settle those out no you don't so i don't

okay um they can sue you but they can show you but in texas they really can't do anything

well i thought they could get control of my bank account which would be not in texas um not in texas i thought

they can't garnish your wages well you don't need that you don't need to give them your bank account information right well i figured i could just switch bank accounts if that were the case yeah okay yeah so okay we're not gonna let their we're not gonna let them create the emergency we're gonna let you create it so all of these this entire 70 000 is in default

yes sir okay and what other debts do you

have i only have my um my home

loan which i owe 178

on that are you current i am current i'm

current on everything else okay the car 707 000. perfect

and 2012

my income is 78 000.

okay and i'm also working i've been

doing ubereats on the side delivering um and i was able to pull in 500 last week so way to go um

i'm planning to just keep attacking that as well you're inspiring i mean you're inspiring you made a huge mess and then when you decided to do something about it you got a template from the lawyer you met with a financial advisor you're working your plan you picked up an extra job you made a budget you're doing everything you are really on fire i'm so proud of you for what

i do so i am and i just want to keep this fire and so as you got as you get little summons if you want to stop and settle those that's fine but if you get one that's a huge one just let it sit there's one coming up it's like eight thousand you know 8200

and i told them i spoke with them on the phone and she wasn't willing to talk to me without she wanted me to make a good faith painter so we're not doing that today um i just need to know what you would be willing to settle for so i can you know plan for that and be able to give that to you in a month or two and she goes i can't do anything with you right now you know then hang up and so i

said listen go ahead and slam the phone down just for the satisfaction

just for the satisfaction the woman if she's going to act like she's a test pilot for a broom factory treat her that way okay

that was her decision not yours it's not you know that's all the technique that's called intimidation and don't don't let them do that to you you've got a plan you're on fire you got a system and so what you're going to do let me here's what's going to happen okay you have three different uh summons and or

collectors coming at you and you have two thousand dollars sitting there this is in the future this is in the future what you're going to just you're going to mess with every one of them you're going to go i got 2 000

who wants it first if you take it

you will get that as a settlement on 8 000 that's behind door number one if you don't then we're gonna go to door number two and whichever one of you calls me back first that's who's getting this money i'll get back to the rest of you later when i got some money and this is a game show baby you know and just have some fun with it right

and then you know how to settle it you've got the template to do that get it in writing and do not allow them electronic access to your checking account that way they don't know where the flip it is right and they don't clean you out on the rest of your plan but i did settle on this law firm i did the two that i settled on i do not need to pay online or anything like that or

because it is in a settlement am i safe to just go online and pay them or do i need to do the cashier's check every time if online means they have your bank account information yeah i would think they would do not do that don't do it okay okay that's what i thought i just wanted to ask because they they it once they have that if they're unscrupulous

and some of them are they can turn around and clean out your bank account okay so you're going to get around to working with everybody we're not trying to ditch them we're not trying to be a deadbeat we're just not going to be abused and we're going to play them against each other until we get through this so i need to start with my default debt snowball smallest to largest on that

i do have three cards that are current um i'd knock them out if you can get a smaller amount i'd knock them out first

what we tell you is run two debt snowballs run your current stuff and pay it off first and let all the stuff that's in default just sit and once you've gotten rid of the car payment and the three active credit cards everything but your house then that gives you more cash flow to deal with the stuff that's in default that's our normal routine you got a few of them coming at

you right now and so if you want to uh kind of dodge around a little bit head fake and jump in and out of that and jump over and knock out one of those summons that's okay there's not a bad thing here okay what i don't want you to do is i don't want them threatening you or giving you a hard time or bossing you

around to become the priority instead you set your priorities you have

power over money for the first time in your life carrie use it right you make don't worry about

them taking me to court then because sometimes you feel pressure to settle nope before court we can settle after just as good not worried about but i thought that they would do the full amount plus court costs well they will but we're also going to negotiate that down to 10 cents on the dollar okay and they're going to be happy to get it junk debt it is junk

these aren't junk debt it is junk debt it's credit cards it's in default it's called junk debt okay that's what it is because they all say they're representing the card that itself it's still well i don't give a crap third party they either own it or they don't but when they get ready to sell it they're gonna sell it for a nickel on the dollar right and

so that's what it's worth to them it's junk debt it's it's it's almost a year since they've been paid they have their probabilities they know their probability is almost zero it's five percent chance they're going to get paid and the fact that you're working with them gets them all excited you actually have a phone number that works everybody else in their database doesn't i mean that's who they're dealing with

and so you're like a unicorn for them they're so happy to talk to somebody to abuse you so cara is great carrie carrie you're doing great listen if you're not in ramsey plus i'm gonna put you in it hold on kelly pick up and make sure you're tied into that because you were doing everything right to straighten out your life you are doing a full reset which is what we're doing

next tuesday night guys you don't want to miss out on that it is a free live stream event next tuesday night at seven o'clock text the word reset to dave ramsey.org

i text it to 33789 reset to

set 33789 and join the new

upcoming live stream next tuesday

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welcome to the dave ramsey show you can

be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you

are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the dave ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice my co-host today on the air ramsay personality number one best-selling author and my daughter rachel cruz it is book launch day at ramsey which means

we are in high gear all over this building lots of media hits lots of things happening and rachel's doing all of them the new book know yourself know your money hit the shelves today a labor of love for over a year

it takes to put one of these things together and get it out know yourself know your money discover why you handle money the way you do

and what to do about it and rachel our the our your seven money tendencies

have been one of the things that people get their hands around first in the book it's not the only thing that you teach about knowing yourself to know your money but the seven tendencies are something that people gravitate to immediately that and how you grew up i was going to say the the childhood money classrooms the tendencies and even the fears the money fears is something people relate to a lot yeah

the tendencies are fun just because there's not a right or wrong it's just understanding and unpacking okay here's where i tend to lean when it comes to my money and it just gives you a level of awareness and to say okay i can now figure out when i'm being unhealthy in that area when i'm when i'm okay and functioning well it gives you kind of this guidepost

and another level of this which i love is you start to understand other people in your life your spouse your parents your grown kids your friends it gives you a level of empathy to say okay they're different than me when it comes to money not right or wrong necessarily in these tendencies but they're different and here's their view they're looking at money a little differently than i am okay

and so the seven right quick rattle them off duet oh it's like the the test okay nerd versus free spirit spender versus savor experience versus things uh quality over

quantity or verses i shouldn't say over um

abundance versus scarcity safety versus

status which is why you want money is it safe to your status and the seventh is on giving so it's more calculated or emotional giver which one you are okay so those are big and then the childhood classrooms i think that those are really fun there's four of them of understanding how you grew up with money so money was communicated in two ways in a household it's communicated verbally and it's communicated emotionally so the first money classroom

is the anxious money classroom and this is where it's verbally closed and emotionally stressed you can feel in the air but it's not talked about that's right so you probably felt tension at the end of the month when bills were paid but you didn't know why but tension around money classroom number two is the unstable money classroom so this is where it's verbally open but emotionally stressed

so if you grew up in this classroom you heard fights about money your parents may have fought with extended family members about money they may have had the same money fight over and over and over again but man it was loud and you knew it was happening classroom number three is the unaware money classroom so this is where it's verbally closed but emotionally calm so never talked about

but it wasn't an issue and so your head was probably in the sands people that grew up in this classroom really didn't even think about money until they were out on their own and they realized oh wow i have to learn a lot and i have a little bit of catching up to do and then that classroom number four the last one is the healthiest money classroom

and it's where it's verbally open and emotionally calm so you could have ten dollars in this classroom you could have 10 million but it's the matter that it is being controlled there's a plan in place it's agreed upon if you're if you have parents that were still together and it was just it was calm but it was also talked about money was talked about and communicated so that's

the fourth money question that i really want to push the reader to move currently to with their family now but looking back to your own childhood to say okay here's how i grew up because every single one of them come with some red flags of okay this is this is an area i'm probably gonna have to overcome because of my childhood classroom yeah and most people don't grow up in

the fourth one no most don't no i was on a show yesterday and they had their whole staff speaking in which was so fun on the youtube show um and the host grew up in classroom two her husband grew up in classroom one uh that we had one of each of them which was so interesting one of her producers was classroom three and actually one of the girls was classroom four

and her and i both because that's i would say i grew up there somewhat classroom two but i don't remember that because you said there was a lot of stress but i was born the year of the bankruptcy um but really even that classroom four just because your parents are smart with money doesn't it's not a gene you're not automatically gonna be smart with money you have to work at

it too and it's that classic larry burkett line that you spend the first five to seven years of your marriage trying to obtain the same standard of living as your parents but it took your parents 30 years to get there so there can be a little bit of a level of entitlement in that classroom for if you're not careful so when you're in classroom four you still have to be safeguarding that okay

i still have to be making decisions on my own i still have to be working hard and it's up to me and my hard work to stay in that classroom for yeah nobody's gonna do it for you you're what's known as a grown-up now yeah so yeah so that's a i think it's always interesting to think about how you grew up and how it affects you and what's fascinating too is talking to people people either mirror what their parents did unintentionally or

they have a visceral response and they do the complete opposite they do the complete opposite so it's good just just to be aware that's true with parenting style that's true there's a lot of things yeah yeah the book is know yourself know your

money by number one best-selling author rachel cruz this will be her third best seller

uh discover why you handle money the way you do and what to do about it know yourself know your money it is on bookstore shelves now it is available we

are doing a virtual book tour a virtual uh launch rachel's doing a

hundred and some-odd media appearances in about a four-day period of time including good morning america in the morning be sure you tune that in at about 8 20. she'll be on we're doing a virtual

launch party for the book you can join rachel on january the 6th that's wednesday and january the 7th that's thursday both at 7 p.m at rachelcruze.com live just go to rachelcruise.com there'll be a live feed there and you can ask her your money questions so join her you can sign up for the uh uh

you know for the launch party or be there january the 6th or 7th at 7 p.m jump in rachelcrews.com

make it part of your lineup we are also working to help you get started on your new year this year and after 2020 everybody needs a reset we need to relook we need to reset emotionally reset financially reset everything and if you want to reset we're doing it this coming tuesday night and so lots of things going on all of this that we've mentioned so far is free

so be sure you check it out we're doing a reset event live from oklahoma city rachel cruz chris hogan me and pastor craig groschel we'll be doing it from his church at lifechurch.tv rachel will be speaking i'll know yourself know your money pastor craig on discipline chris hogan and i are going to walk you through the whole reset process and the steps to take exactly what to do

this is a 100

free live stream it is next tuesday night january the 12th at 7 p.m this coming tuesday night

january the 12th at 7 00 p.m

and uh just go to dave ram you can to to

register for the free live stream you do need to register or it's not going to happen for you uh text the word reset two three three

seven eight nine that's three three

seven eight nine and for those of you in oklahoma city we have a few seats just a handful uh they're only twenty dollars and they may be gone by now uh but of course it's limited because of distancing and all those kinds of things to meet the guidelines and stuff so go to dave ramsey.com events and see

if there's any seats available if you're in the oklahoma city area we'd love to have you come out tuesday january the 12th for this reset live stream with four well

four people who are well known for speaking on these subjects i guess that's the best way to say it this is the dave ramsey show

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the dave ramsey show open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five

josh is with us josh is in mount vernon ohio hi josh welcome to the dave ramsey show thank you for having me how are you guys doing today better than we deserve what's up i have a question for you guys uh my wife and i finally finished off while we're finishing off this friday for baby step two yay long did that take thanks uh 26 months all right good for

you thanks um so we are moving in and we're

going to be doing our baby step 3 which

is saving you know our uh three months for our emergency fund

and we also are home owners uh at the time it wasn't a very wise decision to purchase a house because we went with a three percent conventional for a thirty year um with a rate of 4.125 percent

we're going to get to a place where we want to refinance with rates being what they are around 2.2 to 2.9 percent in our area

and i did not know if it would be best to go through getting the full leaf under three months saved first and then save up separately yeah because you don't have enough equity to roll your closing costs into your refinance do you

i'd say no if you don't and i don't think you do probably because you didn't put enough down uh so i imagine i would imagine you can't if you can roll it in you can do it whenever you want but if you've got a cash flow you're closing costs you've got to do that after your emergency fund is done okay so let's treat that more like a 3b

it would just be something you purchase while you're doing four five and six like if you bought a couch or you upgraded a car or you did something else in this case it's closing costs on the loan okay but let me tell you how i did that uh from a critical thinking standpoint okay

okay if it's not an emergency

it doesn't go before the emergency fund

yeah that's how i put it after the emergency fund this is this is a good idea but it's not an emergency okay so even

if rates fluctuate a little bit which i'm sure they will still better than the 4.125 exactly but definitely wait until after we're done the number of times rates move more than one percent in a four or five month period of time is almost zero

okay they'll move an eighth a quarter something like that one direction or another but they just really don't move that much that dramatically and you're gonna be done with that baby step three pretty quick well done sir yeah pretty good i mean but you would say just still go ahead start baby step four though like start funding retirement yeah i mean i'm okay if you did it as a baby step three b yeah yeah

you know treat it and treat it like a down payment thing if you want to but it's not an emergency right because see let's let's say you took five thousand dollars and that's the only five thousand dollars you had and you need a refi and then the transmission goes out on your car and you lose your job and there's a pandemic right you're screwed you know and

so that's how you know that it would have been a bad idea that's right you run it through a stress test yes a hypothetical stress test in your mind and then you can tell oh i should have done the emergency fund first it's more important than saving a couple points or or a quarter of a point on my interest rate by letting it ride a little bit

and that's the interesting thing about money and talking about it in this way because it all it sometimes trumps math right like the idea of like well interest rates and they could fluctuate uh and it's not a math problem no it's not it's safeguarding and continuing to put that strong financial foundation under you yeah and you know in that same light baby steps one two and three are

you defy everything you you put math

aside you use the debt snowball you stop your 401k even with a match you um you know you defy all the mathematics but expensive expenses your house is on fire yeah you're in debt and you have no money you are an accident looking for a place to happen you are normal in america and normal sucks 78 of americans live paycheck to paycheck don't live that way so one through three is

the house is on fire so you don't we don't sit and discuss theory when the house on fire you get your butt out of the house and you get that you get yourself out of debt and you get that emergency fund in place then when you break through baby step three that's when you cannot be gazelle intense anymore and instead of intense you're intentional and you start saying okay now

we got to start talking about retirement kit four we gotta start talking about kids college five we gotta start talking about paying off the house six we gotta upgrade this couch this spring is sticking me in my butt every time i sit down here we gotta get a car it's awful this beater we've been driving while we were getting out of debt is horrible it's time to get a car that doesn't have a name

you know and so on right and so you you start moving up in a few things here or there but you're careful and you're intentional but you don't have to live on beans and rice rice and meats oh by the way that's when you would go on vacation is only after baby step three and that's when you'd go out to eat is only after baby step three

you shouldn't be going out to eat i know people think i've lost my dad gum mine but let me tell you what when you have a pandemic hit and you have no freaking money because you've been in restaurants you look like a freaking fool because you are you shouldn't have been going out to eat you spent all your dad gum money in a restaurant yeah and i don't mind going out to eat

i love going out to you you love going out to eat the ramsays love to eat we are we are social animals

but um i'm getting an email to commercial break from my wife about going out to eat with another couple you know i mean this is normal but it but the problem is when you're broke it's foolish because it is not economics

that causes you to eat out it you know 90 of what you spend at a stinking restaurant is not the food you could have bought all that food for 10 or 15 at the store and gone home and cooked it oh and then made four other meals after that well yeah the cookie yes a whole bunch yeah and then got leftovers in the whole bed god help me for sharing ramsay but um her leftovers oh she's still after

all these years but um like we can't afford home with food i'm like mom those green beans there's like no one else now i want to eat like no one else stop it but um so yeah but the the the uh the point is

is that you need to treat the first three like you're in an emergency like it's on fire and then after that you're intentional which means you're thoughtful you're thinking about okay if i do that i won't be able to do this and what's more important would i rather do my kids college than that couch or whatever you know we got to get a couch it's ridiculous um family's not been on vacation in five years we're gonna spend a reasonable amount

and go on do a decent little vacation of some kind if you could find a state that's open and um whatever

right yes you can start you can you know you you don't relax to the point that you go back to stupid land but you relax to the point that you can enjoy a few of the creature comforts again when you're in four five and six yep but that idea though that it's so behavior-based especially baby steps one through three it's not the math thing like we're talking about earlier like it really is it's your behavior and getting ahead and

what ends up happening when you actually get traction for the first time in your life and by the way it's not just a ramsey thing it's not something dave ramsey or the ramsey organization came up with it's a data thing i mean when we study millionaires the way they became millionaires was not math it was managing behavior

none of them were i mean virtually none

of them 90 something percent of them were not uber sophisticated had the figure had figured out the idea of how to get rich at bitcoin or how to get rich or beat the card game in vegas or they weren't day traders or they weren't they weren't they didn't spend their whole lives with their nose in a mutual fund book they didn't do any of that they just loaded up their 401k paid off their house

and they really did not were not very sophisticated a lot of them weren't that super efficient with their math with the math on the investing they didn't spend a whole bunch of time studying it sometimes they had an investment advisor sometimes they didn't but they didn't sit and wring their hands over the 12 b1 fees in a mutual fund and they didn't set no load versus load

the great comparison they didn't go through all that crap they just put money away get it yes did it while everybody else is talking about their freaking theories and they're broke these guys go and do it it's a do it

thing it's a behavior thing and

that is what makes people wealthy and what gets you away from the wolf's door and stuff when stuff like a pandemic hits yeah and it's the long game there's no short-term fix no yeah beverly seals said it no shortcut to any place worth going

that's a great quote this is a good quote no shortcut to any place it's worth it takes the time but it's worth it yeah it's you know there's not a pill to make you lose weight and there's not a pill to get you out of debt there's not a microwave you just got to freaking do it this is the dave ramsey show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage joshua and julia are with us hey

guys welcome happy new year happy new year you're the first in person debt-free scream of the year awesome awesome well done i love it how much have you paid off 347 000

um in six and a half years roughly

wow and your range of income during that time of 155 000 to 250 000.

cool what do you guys do for a living i'm a nurse in ethicist i stay home with kids okay great and i'm going to guess with the length of time and the amount of money you paid off your house we sure did it

i've been waiting so long to hear you say that people are in front of me that's right so what's this house worth right around 350 000.

okay and it's yours it's all right bye guys i love it way to go you guys i love

mowing the grass every blade is ours because it's yours that's how that works i love it i'm so proud of y'all how old are you i'm 35 33 and you're paid for house yes sir you are officially weird man how many 35 year old friends do you have with a paid for house a lot of them tell us to not do it yeah

that's crazy okay so what made you do this like i understand that getting out of debt but it's like we're gonna just we're gonna hit the gear and pay off the house right so we're both fbu babies i grew up on the envelope system and josh did a seventh grade algebra homework from the back of the fbu classroom so it was a no-brainer obviously to pay off

the student loans as soon as soon as he graduated from anesthesia school and we took a little bit of a break started a family and then it came to where we needed to decide do we put an extra sum of money toward retirement or do we pay off the house and of course we got a lot of people saying why would you pay off your house don't pay off your house at that time

we were leading an fpu course and through that we became more accountable to the dave ramsey plan and we became more of a team budget meetings were more of a joy than a burden or a dread and it we were always exciting to me

nerd free spirit let's just establish it

and so um with uh with leading that class we decided all right we're going to pay off the house but even at that point i was i was a supporter but i wasn't an equal partner in in the process

so i wasn't really gung-ho about it until about february of 2019 when we had

received a late advent calendar from our friends in germany and we're all sitting in the living room floor pouring over these german chocolates and goodies when josh said how would you guys like to take a trip to germany which of course the response was i bribed them

i think i needed a bribe this response was yeah yeah we want to go to germany and he said all right when when we pass the house we'll go to germany well so at that point we became we became full partners

in this and um so the interesting part

though is when god came into it um the very next month we we had decided obviously to pay off the house but whenever i was starting to do the numbers like i always do i realized that that was going to be a lot of money to pay off 198 000 in about well it was january 2000

we're going to do it by january 2021 yeah that was the date we decided at that time that february of 2019 um

we had 198 000 left in the house and i was like this is this is outrageous how in the world we're going to do this so i started talking to god and i said god if you don't mind just give us more work not more money more work and um that very next month in march i

had five co-workers that put in their notice to leave oh my god and i sat down with her and i said i'm not sure if god sent them out of my work but it is an opportunity for me to get all the overtime i could and so i'm amped all my every vacation i

had for the last two years uh every post-call day which i have most of them off i worked all of them many saturdays i worked and uh so i have not been part of jeremiah's life pretty much in my um so for that whole 18 months uh it was

gung-ho yeah and uh so god provided um

that opportunity for us and we got it done in time actually four months early i guess wow i mean while we're learning german so that we can keep them accountable to his part of the plan his bribe yeah the kids are really that

was a pretty heavy sacrifice all those hours it was uh but now you're 35 years old with a paid-for home was it worth it i would never go back yeah absolutely uh the hardest part was uh just

parenting is hard enough alone or in and of itself but parenting alone is even harder and it felt like that some nights when i was the only one tucking them in bed most of my hours were 24 hours at 16 to 24 hour shifts i mean i'm i'm working call and and then getting up the next morning and working 10 12 16 hours so it wasn't just like monday through friday seven to five

it was constant but because because we paid off our house we were able to say yes to an opportunity that we would have just not even batted our eyes at so uh august september or august somewhere around there when i got the money because i was waiting for it when the money came into the check checking account to be able to pay the house off that morning

when it came in i got a call an hour later from my buddy who went into school anesthesia school with me asking me for if i would like to interview for a job about 45 minutes away from my job now i accepted the job um pretty much a week

later and i am now home with my family so much more and i didn't really sacrifice my pay at all i actually got a bit of a pay raise wow so without the hours without the other hours i actually feel like it was god saying okay you asked for the time of work and now i'm going to close it out with a another huge gift wow and

so we are extremely grateful to be here today here's the cupcake here's some icing yeah i like it he was faithful for sure amen that's powerful dude and you know

the way we know that's god for those of you who don't know anything about god is the timing is wacky there's no other way to explain

it that just generally happened in the middle of this then you could blame it on coincidence or something like that if you believed in that kind of stuff but this is like i need some more work okay here's some work and i just finished paying off the house oh here's the same amount of money for less work and covert never did slow us down yeah we picked up more hours during that time

so yeah it was a blessing oh you guys that's incredible i mean absolutely incredible people stand on the stage that are all ranges of age but seeing young people without a mortgage payment like you guys like that's insane absolutely insane and and it was

it was a short-term sacrifice right like we don't always say to go gazelle intense through those baby steps but you chose to which is great in that short amount that 18 months which girl three kids i can't even i know i like the same as you i'm like oh so bathtime's the worst like i know it's so hard yeah but that short-term sacrifice and now the freedom

the absolute freedom to even pull back more if you wanted right i mean just nothing it's awesome and in the middle of that somebody was leading financial peace university classes what do you tell them in the class when they ask okay

yeah but you make a lot of money what's the secret to getting out of that my dad has always told me you're going to spend as much as you make you're going to spend it in for us our priority was in the house but for a lot of people it's things that they can't even really remember what they spend it on um so it's just being focused um

you got to determine a plan and i highly encourage bringing your wife on board as well um it is a it's a marriage uh you can't

do it alone and once she when she committed with the germany bribe once she committed it there was nothing stopping her so when are you going to germany well we were going to go this year but it's going to be 2022 because that's when this lady that we're friends with is going to get married so we're going to be there for her marriage for her wedding awesome now

then you'll have a thorough understanding of the german language by the time you get there yeah oh yeah we'll be fluent all right bring the three kiddos in and introduce them their names and ages or what go on guys josiah is six mm-hmm

and jeremiah's two almost two and we've gotta we gotta tell y'all a little bit about them so uh one day when i was gone josh

took the kids and made a paper chain with them each link representing a thousand dollars that we had left on the house and each time we made a payment it wasn't it was a family affair we went through our ritual of making the payment on the computer as a family and cutting off the appropriate amount of chains and it was a great visual but now that i stand here on the stage i think about how debt has you in chain count it down

before we run out of time all right let's hear your death

cry we're dead

[Applause] well done you guys that's as good as celebrations i've had a long time wow precious amazing amazing amazing

well done well played this is the dave ramsey show

[Music]

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our scripture of the day ephesians 4 29 let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths but only such

as is good for building up as

fits the occasion that it may give grace to those who hear amy poehler said limit your always

and your nevers

yeah i don't agree with that limit your

always and your nevers don't never get too extreme limit the time you say always and the time that you say never's never unless you're just being a drama queen but i mean there's some things you need to say never how many times have you disagree with the quotes almost never

i never disagree with you i always disagree with quotes because they're like i guess because she's saying because they're extremes yeah that's what she's trying to say but that my point is is that there are principles in your life that you should always stick to and some things you should never do it's fair i don't know i wish i had an

argument to play devil's advocate but i genuinely don't i agree with you one of your favorite sports is arguing with me so this is scary the first time i'm worried about you we need to we need to have your temperature checked

you're always fun to debate with oh it's good how many people push your buttons i can push your buttons hogan hogan and me argue all the time no on the airline like us yes we do yes we do he makes fun of me all the time for being bald hurts my feelings okay i'm sensitive that way open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five don't forget one week from today on tuesday january the 12th we will be doing the reset live stream it is a free live stream

with chris hogan rachel cruz craig groeschel and me it is time for you to hit the reset button it is time for you to get the step-by-step money plan to do the small things you need to do for 90 days that are going to show you how to get on track and get moving we're going to lay it all out for you so go to daveramsey.com reset and you can check out the whole thing having to do with ramsey plus and getting a free trial to it and if you want to view the

free reset live stream to kickstart your money goals for 2021 text the word reset two three three seven eight nine text reset two three three

seven eight nine there'll be a hundred two hundred fifty thousand folks watching that live stream that night based we've already got 65 000 and we have a week to go and it's free by the way tell people

about it tell your friends about it they can start off 2021 with the best minds on the subjects

of behavior and money behavior around

money all of that amy is with us in uh flint michigan hi amy how can we help

hi dave hi rachel hey how are you

good how are you good how can we help

so i had in the spring actually right

when coveted hit i had an issue with mold in my house

i have since got it fixed insurance covered it and everything but i have been diagnosed with mold toxicity so unfortunately i am working from home

and have been since about march and i

got a permanent position at home now

i have now found another mold spot in my

house that has to be taken care of so i'm not

really sure how to go about it you know my insurance mold coverage is maxed out so do i take out a loan

to take care of all the mold because my health comes first i mean i they're talking maybe up to ten

thousand dollars worth of damage

and i'm just not sure exactly how to go about it because i you know i'm trying to file your plan i know that you know i don't want to be slave to the lender i don't want to take out another loan but i know that my health comes first so i'm not really sure how to go about it

are you single i am

what's your household income

it's about 36. and you obviously own

this home yeah i have two roommates

what's the house worth

um probably about

130ish to 140.

[Music] and what do you owe on it

about 110.

so a ten thousand dollar loan when you make thirty six thousand dollars a year is what's known as a lot of money

yeah okay

well i i don't wanna put your health in jeopardy and i don't know enough about you being diagnosed with mold toxicity as far as i understood we all have mold toxicity um so it's new to me that some people haven't some don't i don't know i'm not being smart like i just don't know i know it's not good for anybody uh is my point and so if you've got a special uh level

of sensitivity to it which is i suspect what you're saying um then obviously it escalates the situation i've been doing this show 30 years and i've been put personally in a whole bunch of corners where the it looked like the only way i was borrowing money but i a long time ago gave up the idea of borrowing money so i can't recommend you borrow money so i have to recommend something else

because i wouldn't do it myself and i especially wouldn't do it if i made thirty six thousand dollars a year and one borrow ten thousand dollars for the second go-round of mold on the same stinking house i'd sell this house and move

this is to come up again what are you going to do next time it's ten thousand dollars

i mean this house has got a mold problem or for some reason it's got a susceptibility to a new area of the house amy like why didn't they fix it in the first place yeah yeah this is a whole new area that's what i would say i would say you didn't fix it well the insurance max out but you didn't fix the problem i had mold in my house and now i still have mold in my house so like that's on them they they need to fix it in my opinion

yeah i know but they had a they had a certain amount they were the insurance company had a cap your homeowner's mold coverage only went up to a certain amount yeah but that they needed to explain that to her then to say we can only fix x amount it's like they didn't even find the other stuff well she knew she might you knew you maxed out your insurance on

the first repair right yeah and i didn't find this new spot until um just last week yeah but and the point is though that it's uh if ten thousand dollars is correct

that was a pretty substantial miss rachel's saying by the mold people i mean if there's a ten thousand dollars worth of mold damage and you finished work just a few months ago they missed something right

it had to already be there yeah this one was kind of hidden in the attic and i don't know if they really did enough checking in the attic before yeah yeah they missed it so um you know i don't know

what it means to your health if you can afford to live there for a little while without damaging your health i don't know that i don't know how to explain that i know that dave and sharon ramsey had a lot of different things come up that felt like they were impossible situations and we were put in a corner where we had to make horrible choices uh but to avoid debt

and never going back again we made those choices and now 20 years later we're extremely prosperous because we made those choices well and what it does amy when you kind of make that line in the sand and you just say no matter what we're not borrowing money that forces you to see other options

and then you get creative and then you say you know what maybe i will just sell the house or maybe i'm gonna get out and have the roommates help i mean you start to actually look at different options versus just yielding to debt when you have that stance and so the fact that you're a little bit you're kind of wish you washed a little bit in your questions maybe your career maybe you've got to work on your career

because you don't make any money and you know you got to work on maybe you're going to be working outside the home uh to make more money and um

that would be okay too uh because you're you know average household income is 59 000 in america and i'm not picking on you i'm not shaming you for what you're making i'm just saying that long term uh

five years from now what are you going to be doing that makes use 80 000 a year instead of 36 and you need to be

aiming at that and that might be part of the fix for this ten thousand dollar problem it might be the extra job that you take on and you go make ten thousand dollars in a couple of months and uh you work your tail end off over the next three months and you make ten thousand bucks and you pay cash for this fix that's okay with me if

you wanna do that uh if you can survive your health for three for those three months i don't i don't know how sensitive this situation is but if it's super sensitive to where you're going to be seriously ill in the next 30 days out of the house then you need to move and you need to put the house up for sale and you need to not try to try to fix a moldy house all

the time let's just move on that puts this hour of the dave ramsey showing the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ

[Music]

jesus [Music]

you

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## 170. The Dave Ramsey Show (Replay from November 20, 2020)


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| **Video ID** | `MNPfY1g4uCc` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNPfY1g4uCc) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:32:03 |

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welcome to the dave ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm dr john dolone here

with my good friend and world famous co-host mr anthony

o'neill anthony how are we doing hey man i i really appreciate that intro man i mean i didn't pay you for that i thought you were a local talent you are not you are worldwide john man you are amazing right now keep going i'm i'm i'm following in your footsteps my good man you blaze the trail but we are here to take your calls on life and money give us a shout at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five you got

anything planned coming up no man uh right now it's just a beautiful time i'm enjoying the day enjoying tomorrow looking forward to play some golf tomorrow and he knows last one in the last weekends before we can actually uh get into some cold weather and so i

don't play golf with anything less than 50 degree weather so man i love sitting next to a good fair weather fan good fair weather sports person man all right let's get to the phones let's go to jonathan in pensacola florida jonathan good afternoon how are we how we doing good afternoon gentlemen thanks for taking my call yeah you bet how can we help i'm a 21 year old business

and admin student that is nearing the conclusion of my academic career and preparing to launch into full-time work life over the past two decades my parents have helped me to build a substantial savings account into which i've placed every paycheck to earn since i was 15 years old i have no debt and have not owned a credit card to date i plan to after finishing college and

then willing and able to pay cash for the vehicle my parents advised me to reach out to you to inquire if financing a small portion of the vehicle purchase dollar amount and paying it off soon thereafter would be the best way to start building a credit score your advice is most appreciated ah man i appreciate it uh you sound like a very sharp young man

let's just say that educated um your

grammar is 10 times better than mine 20 times better than mine jonathan you're an impressive guy you know i'm saying you have a lot how much money do you have saved up right now jonathan i have an excess of 20 000 in my savings

account goodness gracious okay 20 thousand dollars you're going to graduate debt-free yeah what kind of car are you thinking about buying john yes i'm thinking of buying a toyota corolla my family is on those and it's a very a wise decision from what i've seen esteve toyota products are very very reliable products what year you think thinking about buying i used by the time i would be buying a vehicle

it would be at least two one or two years old i want to get used so i don't get hit with depreciation wise man wise man so let let me ask you this question uh because your question is a fair question and i want you to think about this answer if you have

cash why do you need a credit score

good question uh my parents were talking

about uh to me because i have

plans alone eventually i'm currently

21 years old but i'd like to get an apartment and like to buy a house when i'm older and i know that you need a credit score for both of those things that's the reason for my question if it would be wise to take out a small loan for how i could pay cash

and just pay that off that way i can start building a credit score at my very young age cool so let me help you out jonathan when i was your age man at 21 22 years old my honest was about 18 19.

um i had a new mindset at 21. um i thought the same thing that i have to have a credit score one to be a young man two to be successful three so i can get an apartment or um a mortgage and what i did just

like you i said hey let me get a 500 credit card uh so i can be a young man so i can get my credit score up so i can get an apartment easy so i can get a mortgage eventually and that was the wrong decision for myself and so with you calling into the show i just want to hit you up on on some game a little bit you do not need a credit score to be successful number one you do not need a credit score to get

an apartment number two and you do not need a credit score to get a mortgage now let me be honest with you on the flip side with you not having a credit score will you have to put down maybe a little bit more money on your apartment yes instead of you paying the first month rent you're going to pay first month and last month rent and some people may require extra deposit

but that's fine because you sit with money in a bank account when you go grow up and you are ready to get a mortgage there are some things called a manual underwriting or non-traditional credit scores or no credit score lending and what these banks would do is they will pull up your previous apartment and ask you the proof ask you for proof showing that you've paid your apartment on time showing that you've paid

this on time and so to answer your question uh

to be fair with your question no i would go pay cash for the car and instead of forgetting one to two years i would do like a three to four year old car and that's what i just recently did bought a four-year-old vehicle and saved me a lot of money and then from there here's how you're going to win jonathan because i think you're going to be a homeowner within

the next three to five years i am okay with you financing a home uh when it comes to a 15-year fixed rate and putting 10 to 20 down i want you to keep the same mindset that you have right now with saving your money and living below your means and as long as you come up with 10 to 20 percent down you will find a bank that will finance

you and give you a home mortgage and you will have to look around to find some apartment complexes but john this is the same mindset that a lot of people have you know especially in this age bracket that i have to have a credit score uh to be successful and and to get into an apartment no now there will be some that will tell them no we will

we cannot rent to you and that's that's okay but there are several apartment complexes when they see you have no debt you got 20 000 an account they will rent to them that's right and jonathan you are already setting the stage for what's going to be an uncommon life yeah right you are a planner you are

thinking things through you've got cash in the bank it's a 21 year old you're going to graduate debt free as a 21 year old you are way you're already weird yes

right and so you're joining a gang of weird people living weird and i don't want you to subscribe to traditional living when it comes to

being a slave to the fico score getting in line behind everybody else doing the same things no man you're different jonathan and hey here's the deal your parents love you they love you they're trying to do the best they can by you and so we don't need to hate on them we don't need to say mom and dad you're an idiot no they're not they're trying to

the best they can and you called into the show and you got some different wisdom you're way ahead of the game man yeah and tell your mom and dad to watch this show watch this segment with dr d and myself and then also to just go do some research but i want to encourage you brother nearly 48 of the people in the world today can't afford a 400 emergency

this young man got 20 thousand

dollars sitting there account i can guarantee you there are millions and millions and millions of grown adults with families that don't have 20 000 in a checking account jonathan you're head of the game my man yes i want to jump through the screen screen and just hug you bro like i'm so pumped right now young man with this kind of money get yourself a great he's already down on the corolla man that's what i'm saying jonathan you got to start it off right today listen america get a corolla

put some money in the bank this is the dave ramsey show

[Music]

what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

[Music]

[Music]

this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined by my co-host and good friend anthony o'neil we are taking your calls about life and money triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to jenny in seattle washington jenny how are we doing this afternoon

all right guys it's good to meet you in person um i am a longtime listener first time caller and i have kind of an emotional versus

financial question for you my mom passed away in september from

cancer and um thank you

it's it's been really hard to lose her i'm an only child and we've always been very close and i've i'm also a single parent myself

and have been my son's whole life so she was a very strong goal for both of us

and um so that's that's been really tough um especially this year she did leave me

enough financially to pay off the

remainder of my debt i was in that baby step and have maybe about two years left on my own plan and now i'm debt-free and have some liquidity i didn't have previously and is leading me to consider quitting my job i i love the job that i do i'm an accounting manager but it's very high stress and demanding and i've only been able to take about one week off after my mom's debts and

heading into my busy season it's just it's overwhelming um she also left me her house in addition to some liquid assets and trying to just

unwind her house and decide what to do with it and get it in order and just find time to process grief i'm finding

myself considering quitting and i'm a certified management

accountant if i were to go get my master's degree i could get my cpa certified public accountant license

and move into public accounting which is also very demanding but built to better allow time off than the private industry i'm in and i just don't want to make poor financial choices i i doing what i do for a living i generally know the best choices and listening to the show but i'm very emotional and urban in my decisions right now and just wanted to call in since

you guys really cover both of those ends of the spectrum yeah well thank you so much for your trust and for your call yeah let's start with the money part here yeah break it down from for me a little bit more jenny how much are you getting within the inheritance yeah so liquid is about

hundred and fifty thousand three hundred of that is in an inherited ira so i'll have to drain that over the next ten years with the care back yes and then the rest is just uh brokerage and cash accounts uh also looking me her house it's got no mortgage on it and it's worth a little under 500k i went ahead and had um

an appraisal done to protect some capital gains in the future if i do have to sell it but i emotionally i'd like to keep it i just haven't thought through what makes sense with that yet um

so you're looking at almost a million dollars an inheritance right now between yeah yep house and she also

left behind um she she wrote knitting

pattern books for a living and so she's left behind her digital assets and the business and that they will continue to sell and at a lower volume than what uh

when she was alive of course but that will be a continued income stream in the future yeah and so right now from a financial perspective you're in a good healthy place you said you're dead freak all right yep okay and you do you already have a fully funded emergency fund i do okay cool great and then you're already living in a house that you want to live in for the next few years

yeah now i have two houses all of a sudden and that's i love it it's hard to know what to do there here's something i want to do here's something i'm going to recommend that is i believe it's really going to be up to you i think right now you have a great heart i want john to talk into the emotional side because i think the practical side

when it comes to the finances you have now here's something that i would recommend from a uh financial practical perspective since she that's your mom's house and you want to keep that from an emotional uh standpoint rent it you know maybe fix it up make it uh look real nice you're sitting on 500 a thousand dollars um fix it up and rent it out let it generate

you and your family some income then what i would do is i would jump on the phone with one of our smart investors and tell them hey i got five hundred and fifty thousand dollars three hundred this is gonna be coming from a mutual fund um and i just wanna make sure i gotta pull it out but what can i reinvest that into uh to make me some more money

we don't have enough time to really dissect that here on the phone call but i would definitely recommend that you do that but i mean and honestly take a little bit of that and maybe treat you and your family out somewhere but i would definitely jump on the phone

and figure out out of this 550 what can i do with 450 000 of that to turn that into a million down the road and then the 500 000 in the house you know i'm gonna sit here how can i fix that up a little bit get it rentable and then rent that out and allow that to generate on some extra income for my family not but

before we do this we do have to make sure we're in a healthy place emotionally right so jenny you said something that stuck out to me and i think it's going to be the foundation by which you make all other decisions and that is you got a week off yeah

and then you had to get right back into it and the guy who raised me on crisis

response was also somebody that i went to as a personal mentor and when i had a personal tragedy i was also in um in the hunt for another job

and he gave me some wisdom that has con i've continued to live by which is now that you've had this tragedy you will make no major decisions for six months to a year yep until you're well because any and

all decisions you're going to make are going to be emotion-based decisions they're going to be running from not two right you found yourself flushed with cash you have found yourself in a unique situation that you didn't foresee but you also haven't dealt with the grief of your mom and so before you go quit your job that man you may have just that may be a great thing to do you've got cash to go get yourself a master's degree to to move yourself into a different situation that'd be awesome um

but until you fully have that lined out until you've actually processed your mom's grief and it's not going to go away in six months right that's going to be a you know an ongoing thing right until you've got some a platform for you and your your child as a single mom until you've got those things lined out i recommend don't jump jump don't jump ship because i don't want

you to find yourself a month from now or two months from now the smoke is clearing from the crazy season right and yep you've spent some money

and you're a semester into a graduate program and then you're going to be thinking what did i do right and so do this

do you have a group of folks that you can talk to do you have a friend do you have a couple of folks that you are in regular connection with out there in seattle i do yeah how have they supported you through this this time uh hearing me

literally hearing me talk it out and that kind of thing and support i my company's big enough

we're multi-state and have about 400 employees that there's leave options in place

there is no backup for my role so i have this intense sense of responsibility i really cling to the areas i own at work and

it's all deadline driven and tax filing and audits and year-end and i just i there's literally no person trained to cover that if i'm out

for more than a week and um i'm new in

my current role this year i've been there eight years i've worked my way up to this i've had the same boss for that period and he's been good and he's newly in a cfo role and it's obviously been a very challenging here for all businesses so i have this intense sense of not being able to let go because there's nobody to unload it on so i feel as if those leave policies don't apply to me but listen listen the person you're

unloading it on is you the person you're unloading it on is your is your kid yep the person you're unloading it on is those men and women who love you and care for you there in seattle and so for the next few the next few months the next few seasons your work does not get your first fruits you do your work doesn't get your

heart and soul your child does and that's going to mean

talking to your boss and having a if he's a he's a new leader he's a new cfo it's time for him to step up and he's going to find out what leadership's all about because his rock star his anchor is going to come to him and say i'm not well i need to process my mom i need 60 days i need 30 days and i know it's in

the year i know it's busy and i know it's not it's an inopportune time and you're going to find out if this is the company you're going to work for a long term or this is a company that you don't want to be a part of but it's right now it's time for you to to turn the dial back and look in the mirror and say jenny's worth investing in my family's worth investing in

and i need to grieve that wonderful wonderful mom who raised me and cared for me and my son what a blessing spend some time on you take that leaf policy and let the rest go this is the dave ramsey show [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined here by my co-host and good friend anthony o'neal let's go to rebecca out in buffalo new york rebecca how's it going hey i'm great how are you outstanding how can we help today good well i had a question about boundaries i've listened to your show quite a bit and i hear you talk a lot about setting boundaries especially with family and especially around the holidays um but i was just wondering if you could maybe address um how to be on the flip side of that when

somebody sets a boundary that makes the rest of the family kind of uncomfortable and awkward hey this is the first time i've ever been asked the other side of the boundary question i love this rebecca anthony it's going to be good all right go for it rebecca well my sister um is kind of going through like a bit of a i don't know midlife crisis or something

and she's she's made it very clear to the rest of the family that she's not willing to talk to any of us about anything that's going on in her life and we're not allowed to ask her any personal questions at all okay and so i'm kind of dreading might be too strong of

a word but i'm not really looking forward to like thanksgiving sitting around the table you know all of us all together and none of us are allowed to have

a kind of conversation with her um you

know we got to constantly filter like is this too personal is she going to get mad if i ask this what about this you know what what about just not asking her questions that just seems rude well

it would be except that she told you don't ask me any questions about my life

and is it going to be annoying yes and

is it fair for you to say hey we get that you asked us not to do this this is new for us and so we're going to ask you to remind us right because we're going to forget we're going to stumble over this because we love you and care about you but we want to respect that you've said don't ask us any questions and so we're going to try if we forget if we lean over during dinner and we just ask this one question and then just give us a hand signal say

i really don't want to talk about that give us some grace and i think you deserve that right but at the end of the day it sounds like she's made uh thanksgiving a little bit easier and she has said this part's off limits and it's annoying and it's frustrating but it kind of is what it is what do you think anthony but rebecca i want to ask this question too what did she say is off-limits specifically did she say her life or this part of my life

um well i mean like we can talk about like our childhood like you know childhood memories and stuff like that but it's just like we're all concerned about her and what she's going through is she dating someone y'all don't like or is she working at a job you don't like her what's the thing we don't we don't know

um she's she's still she's still married

but she's not with her husband um she moved to a different state and i'm not sure what state she has a job that i don't know anything about um i don't even know what she's doing right now so here's a here's a great gift you can give her yeah and i hope everybody hears this

often when we love people and they're going through pain the way we love to lean into that pain and this is this is coming from a good place most of the time not always but most of the time is we want to give them our wisdom our

experience and our advice and one of the greatest gifts you can give to somebody who's hurting is your presence and just your

sitting next to them until they invite you in to hey what should i do here because my guess is your sister's struggling with shame your sister's struggling with you her fancy sister rebecca's got a great marriage and everything's working out awesome and mom and dad don't like fill in the blank

and so instead of leaning into hey i

really want to know what's going on so i could help you she has said in a roundabout way the way you can help me is sit by me at thanksgiving and let's not get into that kind of stuff i just want to be with you guys the fact that she's showing up i want to give her the benefit of the doubt there the easier thing probably would have been to not come at all and so she's coming and the greatest gift you can give her is distraction laughter and warmth and

presence and my guess is if you give her that those things equate to safety and when suddenly she doesn't feel judged by you she feels safe then she's going to slowly say hey here's my situation right and so the the challenge for you is going to not be to bang your head and your arms and legs and elbows and knees up against that boundary that she's put up and instead 100 respect it

and just give her joy and peace

and once she invites you in then you can slowly give your opinions and thoughts and insights what do you think anthony i'm gonna play

the devil's advocate on this for rebecca okay okay and i'm not and i'm saying this because i'm just i'm just saying like hey i'm gonna put i'm putting myself into your sister's shoes yeah um one of the key things that i

like thanksgiving is coming up and so i'm not looking forward to going to my family's house only because of one question what's that one question everyone's going to ask me john why are you still single that's right you know what i'm saying and to me my my respectful answer to them is it's none of your business so what if what if anthony you know what i'm saying what if you preemptively sent a note out to everybody and said this year

i don't want to talk about being single i love you guys and we're just going to talk about other things yeah and that's my thing like yo let's just have a conversation bro man congrats on the book or hey man i see you doing this like talk about something that is like what you said and inviting that it doesn't make me feel shameful because sometimes my family members i know they have the right intentions

and that they love me but sometimes when i hear when you're single well maybe you need to do a b there you go that's right i don't want to come around you because you want to give me your opinion but you don't live my life so we're saying the same thing yes we're saying the same yeah and so what i'm saying to you is rebecca like when

she comes hug your sister you know embrace your sister talk about your family talk about you know how good god has been to the whole family you know if if she if her hair is different compliment her hair girl what are you doing in the gym you look good give me that ingredient you know make her feel accepted make her feel welcomed and then i agree with john more than likely

she won't bring it up this time because she's fearful um of

if she does bring something up then everybody's gonna have an opinion because that happens to me every single thanksgiving and christmas my mama my sister my brother my brother-in-law even now my nephews uncle anthony you ain't married you know what i'm saying so i don't want

it to come up so your sister whatever hurt whatever's going on in her world she doesn't want to come up you know why because i i want to enjoy my family and i i don't want to feel like the odd one i don't want to feel like the one that is unhealthy in the situation because of this current part of my life so i would i'm not the expert this is

john's area i'm just you are an expert because you experience it right yeah you're in a practical perspective like you know hey sometimes we just want to go and just laugh and just eat all the turkey eat all the ham you know and just be unhealthy for a chance in a good way so rebecca can you do you have other brothers and sisters uh yes there's a brother between

the two of us yep so here's what i want you to do i want you to take the lead on this one yeah and i want you to reach out to your brother and say our sisters asked us not to talk

about certain things we have one goal and that is to laugh like we have never laughed before yes come up with funny stories write them down we're gonna proactively think of funny things from our childhood we're gonna proactively prank dad we're gonna proactively create an environment where she feels safe she feels totally welcome and here's the thing she may be involved in things y'all don't agree with

you i don't like you're worried about her if you create an environment of safety she'll invite you in absolutely she will eventually may not be that damn it probably won't be yeah probably won't be yeah but it will circle back and um and if it even if it never does

she has drawn a boundary and i love the fact rebecca you just made my heart feel good because all across the country i've heard this over and over and over people are for the first time anthony drawn boundaries yeah i'm worried about coving i'm not

coming or if you don't wear a mask i don't want you at my table or or or all these different boundaries are being drawn for the first time this year and if you're input if you're i mean if you're if your default setting is to run up and shove that boundary and see if it's going to hold you're just going to bring tension to thanksgiving we need no more tension yeah no more attention if somebody puts up a boundary even if you don't agree with it or believe in it honor them seek peace seek laughter

seek safety over thanksgiving rebecca good for you you're a good sister i love it this is the dave ramsey show

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hey good folks it's the most wonderful time of the year believe it or not christmas is just around the corner i can't even believe that anthony christmas is just around the corner you heard it here first you heard it here first as though it's gonna pop up on the calendar of a strange day no matter what this year has brought you christmas is still coming and to celebrate we're giving away cash all season long enter our ramsey

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very very cool let's go to amanda in lexington texas amanda how are we doing

i'm good how are you good deal how can we help today yeah my husband and i had an income increase this year which has allowed us to do a lot of our financial goals including baby step four let's go

wait so hold on amanda this has been the worst year ever in the history of the universe planet ever yes but you got extra income what happened my husband completed his master's degree and stepped into the position of nurse practitioner and oh boy way to go and you who've been

putting him through grad school and full-time you get to breathe a little bit now well sorta but i had the fourth baby this year so oh amanda good for you guys you all have been into it so how much how much was your uh your increase um so we went from about 60 to about 98.

okay so we have a 98 000 household

income in the year of 2020 correct yes yes okay so you've already maxed out

your babysitter number four which is investing 15 of your gross income um into a

401k or into a growth stock mutual fund invested into ira correct yes okay how much this is

where we kind of had the question because we're in a house right

now that we own i've been here almost five years and it we fit it's not

dire that we move but that is a goal um

hopefully in the next few years but then also we have four daughters

and i think my husband is starting to feel the crunch of saving for them and so that's probably not the only crunch he's feeling right now that's a lot of women in that house huh yes bless him he's a great girl daddy good for him yeah so just trying to figure out like how to balance whether we stay for the next down payment or even put like extra towards our current mortgage or whether to start accounts

you know for weddings and school and things like that for the girls or whatever to try to do both or

not and amanda i love this question uh because i think it's a it's a fair question to ask and this is the prob probably the most normal question we get when people get a significant pay raise they immediately start to look at how do i use this okay and i i think on one hand it's a fair question on the other hand it's for me i'm not asking myself how do

i use this i actually give myself two years in that significant pay raise before i make a a actual huge financial moves so prime example when i came here to join the speakers team my income went up significantly but i lived for literally about three

years yeah about three years on my youth pastor's salary before coming here that's how i was able to do the things financially i'm able to do now so what i'm going to recommend to you all is this how much money do you have in a savings account right now uh between 18 and 20 000. okay 18 to 20

000. if something was to happen right now with your husband um is that the minimum of three months of investments oh yeah okay great sounds

like it's a little bit more so great when we are already investing are you already investing into your your daughter's college fund no we haven't started that yet okay cool i would do that immediately

okay i will go ahead and start opening up um the how old are your daughters my oldest

is about to turn seven okay seven and then what what's the next one after that then five five okay two

and then two months two months okay so

what i would do is i would probably open up two 529s

talk to a smartvestor pro uh because the seven and five year old um are close so i would probably have two that we can possibly invest into but then the good thing about the 529s is they can roll down to your kids to your other kids okay so before i look into purchasing another home i want to go ahead and start thinking about legacy thinking about my kids college future and this way um once you start

funding that then i would start looking at okay in the next two years husband um let's go ahead and start looking into a home so once you start funding this 529 the college uh

plan i don't have a problem with you all going ahead and start setting aside some extra money to put down towards a home so here's a good thing start looking at the equity in your home right now because you're going to sell that to upgrade and then also start looking at how much money can you put down if you all can be there within the next year

and a half two years that is great but what i want you to do is make sure that you create some cushion because immediately when we get that extra money john we immediately want to spend that okay now we got the margin let's go get a bigger house no let's let's make sure that when we get the bigger house we still have that same margin because here's

the thing america hear me clearly when it comes to building wealth it's not your income it's margin how much margin do you

have to survive to live and to press on

you can make a million dollars and be broke you can make a hundred thousand dollars and be wealthy and do me a huge favor amanda

seven five

two in two months is that right yep yes

i'm gonna tell you to do something that i never do i i'm the super frugal one

right my brand new truck is an o6 right i'm i'm i'm annoying when it comes to being frugal okay but take a little bit of that money and you and your husband do something special y'all haven't slept in close to a decade now agreed you got a two-month-old you don't even know what day it is you don't it's a and it's okay but for real for christmas hire somebody to come over

and be with those kids and do something fun and lovely for one another um that's a lot you guys i want y'all to celebrate this moment because i know that when someone's when a spouse is in grad school and working full-time not only are are they working hard but the person who's holding the house down is working hard too and by the way you're growing a human

and making sure the other three were still alive during that time so do something fun for each other yeah but anthony i love what what you're saying here we just sprint to to collapse that

margin yeah right collapse that margin i love a story that dave has told us privately and i'm sure he's told it on the air too which is it was the margin yes that in 0.809

when when things fell apart he was able to go knock on doors and buy land and buy homes with pennies on the dollar because he had the margin and that's and others didn't right absolutely that's the thing that has really helped me out with the move that i just did i had the margin to go buy a home that in a gentrified area that

one day within the next year a year and a half will become a rental property for mine because i had the margin i took time i rented until i was 32 33

years old that's right because i wanted to have margin to really go build true wealth i want to thank producer james childs an associate producer the one and only kelly daniel the one and only kelly daniel thank you for joining us for this hour this has been the dave ramsey show

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the total debt is around six hundred and forty thousand dollars

for the rest of my life i just don't even know where to begin and i don't know what to do i'm not scared welcome to the dave ramsey show

you are not a victim you are the hero in

your story you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career everything just started making sense i was like i'm gonna do this let's hear a debt-free scream

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your money and your life i am john deloney here with my good friend and co-host anthony o'neal we're here to take your calls about your relationships your money your life everything in between yeah anthony how are we doing i'm doing good man how are

you doing man you are just winning right now with the dr john de lonnie show you dropping new episodes every monday wednesday and friday on youtube i mean you are just

really i mean your numbers are through the roof let's just be honest we're having some fun no no no no you're so humble let me be arrogant for you [Music] you're doing numbers like twenty thousand thirty thousand fifty thousand and even one of your videos got like three hundred thousand views we're doing good man and you're a rookie uh hey trust me you can watch that show

and you can find out real quick that i'm a rookie but what i'm saying is those those are not rookie numbers man i'm just excited to have you on the team because here's what america this guy is helping people and helping people get their mind and their mental

perspective correct and so i just want to say live on the air in front of 17 million people thank you for what you do and it's so cool to be on this team so i'm grateful for you man you've blazed the truth see my god he's like yes i agree with him anthony you know like i like him i like man but honestly america check out his show y'all check out his show i appreciate you that's right so give us a call at

and 825-5225-825-5225 we we're two men here there should be no blessing

all right let's go to miller in athens georgia miller how are we doing doing well john ditto to what anthony said thank you for everything you do well i appreciate you how can we help today um so i have an 11 year old stepson

um he's been i've been his stepdad since

he was two and a half years old um and i just feel like i'm not

being the stepdad that he needs um

i get i'm a little harder on him than i am on my actual biological kids and i can i can tell um he was diagnosed with adhd a few

years ago we've got on some good good medication for while he's at school to help him control his impulses he's very impulse he doesn't really have a great inner monologue but he's he's he's just full of life

he's great he's been uh inventive he wants to be an engineer he loves to build things but i know i'm harder on him than i should be and i just want advice um on how to be a better step-dad now hold on hold on miller

explain to me why do you think you're harder on him give us an example of why you think you're harder on him than you are to your son um i know that

there's sometimes so he can be a little argumentative which i mean he's an 11 year old boy he's getting close he's probably starting puberty and getting that way but he does he does question things a little bit more um than than what i would probably like and um sometimes i don't really i jump on him before i let him

him talk or um you know i get i just get

on to them a lot sooner and and then i probably should my wife has tried to talk to me you know i need to pick my battles and things like that which i feel like i've gotten a lot better at but um you know i i just want to be want to

be better for him i want him to look back when he's in his 20s and say you know thank you for for being my stepdad instead of looking back and resenting me thinking that you know i'm i i wish i had had somebody else or i wish i was able to live with my my real dad or or anything anything like that i just i know i could be better for him so i miller i want to just tell you um dad to dad

i'm honored to be talking to you today and if every father in america much less stepfathers had the heart you have have the desire

to want to raise a remarkable young man

the way you do the world would be a better place and so just the fact miller that you are asking this question is a gift okay the second thing is um

let me ask you a couple of questions one is his real dad in the picture

he is um he lives about three hours away

from us so and he his dad is um in the medical

field um so he is busy a lot

um and he doesn't get to see him as much as as i know my stepson would like but yeah he he's in the picture he facetimes he talks he calls we have a great relationship so yeah he's still very much in the picture what other kids are in the house

um his i have a 12 year old daughter

and then we also have a three-year-old little girl and a one-year-old little boy very cool so a like a good blended

family here with a dad two dads who've chosen to be grown-ups and to honor each other for the sake of these kids um man you are so far ahead of the curve miller um here's a couple of things i can tell you i haven't gone through this i've walked alongside people but i haven't experienced it and anthony you've lived this as that little boy and so i'd love to hear your insight here's a couple of things i would tell you about being around a young boy who is 11 or 12 and is struggling with adhd

and is connecting with his dad number one relationship with your daughter is going to be different than with your son and so i would hesitate i'd give yourself some grace in comparing the two it's easy to compare it thinking it's biological but there's also going to be a gender gap there and so give yourself some grace lean into high touch high connection

with this boy as opposed to high information

the temptation that especially men when they're trying to raise other men we only have a few tools in our tool kit most of the time and those are volume and

strength and information

and one of the greatest gifts we can give to a young boy especially one who has um processing challenges which is what adhd is just a processing issue it's a connection issue is letting him

know every day hey i chose to be your dad

i met your mom and you came with her and

i chose to be your dad and i'm so glad i did if you will say that sentence to him for the rest of his life he will grow roots deep deep roots if you will say every

morning hey before you leave before you go upstairs to zoom school or whatever y'all are having to do there in athens come give me a hug and you squeeze him hard and say i'm so glad i get to be your daddy i'm so glad that i chose to step in here

and be your dad and then remember this third thing here every time you're about to cut him off every time you're about to give him information every time you're about to scold him remember this he is watching you way more than he's listening to you and so if you want to model for him what

a caring husband looks like what a caring dad looks like what a compassionate father figure looks like

then i want you to remember that you're you're you're giving him a picture as opposed to what what your what the words you're coming out of your mouth right and so do this miller i want to get anthony's take on this i'm going to hold you over the break because i want to follow up here because i've got some academic info but anthony's walked this walk so stay tuned miller this is the dave ramsey show

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john dolone joined here with my co-host anthony o'neal we're talking to miller in athens georgia and miller is a step dad he's got a biological daughter he's 12 years old he's got a wonderful energetic exciting stepson who's 11 years old and he just called in because he wants to be a better stepfather what are some things he can do to be a better stepfather is that about right miller that's correct it's awesome so

before the break i gave you a couple of thoughts about looking at adhd as a connection issue

it's not a brain disorder your son's not broken he's been through a lot and normally kids who have been through a divorce season your daughter's probably experiencing this too quite honestly just it manifests itself differently in different kids is that kids backfill that tension in the home with it must be my fault somehow and it it will manifest its way in

perfectionism kids who double down on straight a's it will manifest itself in excitability and i'll get your attention through movement through shaking through being allowed so on and so forth

and you are as far as i'm concerned dad of dad of the year just for even asking the question and often and we often men lean into little boys with information and strength and

focus and discipline and little boys are

just like little girls and they need connection so we talked about connecting with your young son but i'm blessed here to have anthony with us who has lived this he's walked this walk and so anthony when you're hearing me talk to this this dad when you're hearing this extraordinary father here let us know what's going on your heart and mind yeah you know

right before the brave man i'm glad i didn't go before the break because this is kind of an emotional um conversation for me like it even

brings tears to my eyes because my stepfather and stepmother um i refuse to call them

step parents uh my parents

i have four loving parents who i look at them all equally um and miller i want to ask you a question man i want you to be honest with me do you love him the way you love your son that you actually birthed absolutely do you

feel as if even a slightly

a little difference like okay yeah that's my son and that's my stepson i love them but you know that's still my son like you can say here on the show in front of 17 million people and not just us but in front of god that you genuinely love that young man just as much as you love your other son i do genuinely love him cool i do

then what i want you to do is for yourself stop calling yourself a stepfather because there's nothing step about you you are a father and i think that

um one of the greatest things that both my other parents did was they showed me

love more than told me how much they love me

and especially on my other mother i

treated her like crap and she was there from day

one my my father other father

was the first man that i knew because my

biological father was fighting overseas and to this day

i heard you say something earlier that you want your son to get in his 20s and say thank you

pops thank you pops miller and i can

assure you that before he's in his 20s he will say thank you dad if you just sit there and you just

love him um don't even bring up adhd because i

tell america this uh the world said i had adhd because i was just like your son you know i was i have a lot of energy still to this day some people looking like is this boy crazy like is he sick no i just have a lot of energy and i got to remind myself that i have to focus and my mom was like maybe we should put him on medicine do you know who told my mom

no not my other dad my

stepfather my other father and he said

no we are not going to do that there is nothing wrong with anthony he is going to be okay i am going to step up i am going to be on him harder than yvette which is my sister harder than my brother which is my younger brother john you know and i'm gonna make sure that he is okay and that's why in my book debt-free degree the first chapter is proper prior planning prevents poor performances because my father other father would wake me up every night and would make sure that i

was focused and that i was focusing on my future and so miller we don't have to tell you how to be a better father because you're you are already a great father i think this call was to encourage you and all the other fathers out there who are stepping up to the plate and filling in that role as the biological father that you all keep doing what you're doing

and right now you may not feel appreciated right now you may feel like you're not doing enough but i promise you you're doing more than enough and before this

young man graduates high school he will look at you in your face and say thank you for the role you've played in my life as a father and i'm trying not to cry because you i might hang up this phone and call my daddy my other daddy and tell him thank you because to this day i am that man uh and i am a man because

of uh the roles that all four of my parents have played and so uh miller man i um how old are you kids

uh 12 11 3 and 1. cool man because

because because i just love what you're doing man i'm going to um say on the phone i'm going to send you a copy of my book debt free degree because you got young kids that need to go to college debt free um and with everything that you're doing right now i believe that you'll do that so stay on the line with kelly that's my gift uh from

you because i wish i could do so much more man uh because thank you anthony yeah man we need more fathers like you so miller we are in a season of thanks

and it's a it's a great time for you to

do this one exercise tonight i want you

to write a letter to this little boy

and i want you to prepare to read it to

him on thanksgiving and

while you're at it go ahead and write one to your daughter go ahead and write one to your wife and i want there to be a new um a new

you know uh a new tradition in the

miller household and that's where dad stands up and says i'm grateful for the folks sitting around this table and here's why wow and if you're like me i'd have to write it down because i couldn't get through it just off top of my head i'd start crying two seconds in and that would be it for me yeah yeah but i want you to lean into that and i want you to let that little boy know i'm so grateful that i chose to be your dad

i'm so grateful and you know what

can i add something you can add anything you want to can i change that a little bit absolutely sure yep and if this sucks tell me it sucks okay instead of for giving it to him on thanksgiving give it to him when he graduates high school i think both i like that little boys can't hear enough that their daddies are super proud of them that they love them yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

i would say yeah i would definitely do that because when he's 17 18 he can really understand that more that's right and to all the dads out there remember remember they're watching you way more than they're listening to you yes they're watching you way more than they're listening to you yeah and i want to say this too right here on the dave ramsey show we just praise all

the fathers and step father stepping up if you're a father and you're not fathering you need to step up if you have

kids out there that you're not helping the mother take care of them you need to step up because the reason

why young men are just making some of the poor decisions in the world today not just young men but young ladies it's because of the lack of fathers well even more than the lack of fathers is the dads who have been stressed out fried out burned out by kova this year you're exhausted you're worrying about your job you're worrying about this and this and your temper's gotten shorter

and shorter and you've started treating yourself poor and poor and that makes it easier to spend another night in front of netflix another night in the recliner another night disconnected from your kids they're not praising be present whether you've just abandoned them completely or you are alone in a crowded room in your home this is the season to turn it around be an engaged dad be a dad that says i'm sorry be a dad that says i'm gonna do better be a dad that says i'm

so grateful that you're my kids yeah

so grateful you're my kids this is the dave ramsey show

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such as pest issues car repairs that i've had to cash flow i'm so tired of the schedule and working a job i hate to pay debt how do i overcome exhaustion and depression while in baby step two

well you know when it comes to you know the exhaustion depression part i want you to talk into that but for me uh i want to respectfully say

uh jessica um welcome to life i mean

everyone's being hit with all kinds of things from covet this year i've had some car issues come up um i haven't had any pest issues but i've had a lot of different issues come up and the key thing that i've learned from myself is to instead of allowing me to get overwhelmed with this just to sit down and write down the priorities okay what do i need to take care of first what is priority and just go down that line i think a lot of the exhaustion depression um anger

comes from self-inflicted stuff it's like hey okay listen you're on baby set number two so you're paying off your debt this means you should have a thousand dollars an emergency fund uh pest issues and car repairs as you

say you've already had a cash flow you know um the pest issues you don't want mice and stuff running around your house so you need to get that fixed so it's okay to pause babysit number two go to your thousand dollars emergency fund take care of this past issue get your thousand dollars back up and then jump back on the baby step two one of the key things that

i think is so important to hear um and john i really want you to talk to the exhaustion and depression side of this but from the baby step perspective is

we know something's going to come up that is life when it does come up just

just just step back breathe and attack

what's important and then just go down

that list and then get right back going to the baby steps so anthony i had this moment the other night my wife and i and i'm going to get choked up here um you shall argue no no my wife and i put the kids to bed oh wow and we were read the books we did

the whole thing the you can picture my house the lights are out my wife head to the bedroom and i was piddling around in the kitchen with one light bulb on it's a dim lit kitchen

and i heard my son's door open and i

started to roll my eyes thinking oh here we go another bedtime issue you know what i mean i'm gonna ask him what are you doing up and he's gonna give me some excuse we're gonna go on that down that rabbit hole and he turned the corner and i saw his face and he had tears running down his face i said bubba what's wrong and his school

had just been shut down again oh wow and he just came walking fast to

me and hugged me and said dad when does this stop wow when does this stop

when does school getting shut down and not being able to go to church and not being able to not being able to hang out my friends and you and mom are worried and stressed and thanksgiving when does this stop yeah and

jessica i hear what you're going through

everybody is exhausted yes they're just

fried yeah right yeah and that's

when my son had an important advantage

he had other people and i tell folks all the time anthony other people are your emergency fund for life yes you've got to have other people because in these moments when you become over overcome with exhaustion tireds in your head exhaustion's in your soul that's right when you get exhausted that's when you call somebody and you say i can't do this anymore and they say yes you can yeah well

they say i'm all put together a frito pie and i'm gonna i've got half a bottle of wine i'm coming over yeah right i'm gonna put something on your doorstep because we're not supposed to be hanging out or whatever it is and i also want to lean into this word depression we live in a culture now that we have sucked all of the nuance out of it we've sucked all feelings out of

it we used to have sadness frustration anger rage we just have all these emotions now we got anxiety and depression that's it and so be careful throwing that word around because i like what you said anthony unless you've got a diagnosis unless you were working with a doctor you're probably not depressed you're probably just sad yeah you're probably this just sucks you're probably just exhausted and worn out

and you need other people to pick you up to be there for you to lean into you a little bit and then it's your turn is going to come right your turn is going to come but this is life this is hard i want to flip this around jessica and high five you you're in baby step two you had pest issues you had car repairs and you didn't just pull out a credit card

there you go you cash flowed it it's hard to see that you're winning when you're in the middle of it but you are you're taking steps in the right direction they're little steps not near as fast as you want you are exhausted get some people around you who love you and keep going and keep going and keep going as dave always tells us he reads the story

the tortoise in the hair every year and every time he reads that book the tortoise wins yup one step after another just keep going we're with you we're with you jessica all right let's go to christian in mcallen texas christian how in the world are you let's see here uh whoops i went to chris in atlanta sorry chris um chris in atlanta i saw chris and then

i hit the wrong button there chris but we're we're going to you chris so what's up brother uh not much guys there we go good deal doing good um so this has got to be god's head because y'all are the food that i was aiming to get to talk to i've been listening to y'all's podcast for about four weeks now four weeks a long drive home every day and uh so my question is

i'm on board man i'm all hyped up about starting i sold my four-wheeler for baby step one

um sold my toys um and i'm all high stuff but my wife uh we're on two completely different

so she is not hyped up she's dave

ramsey's cuss word um every time we talk about it we argue

about finances um and where it's been

from for her is from the past a year ago

quickly found out she had cancer

and four months later she was gone

and she's in this mentality of you know she's living for the moment and you know she doesn't you know

she doesn't want you know to sacrifice you know anything in order to you know not do certain things like vacations or something and it all kind of comes from you know her mother passing so soon and i don't know what to do

well one christian first and foremost thanks for being a husband who loves his wife and thanks for reaching out appreciate you and all right guys that tells me you got you got a good heart around you and that you love your wife anthony what do you tell couples as they're wrestling with how are we going to get on board together [Music] i don't really talk to a lot of married couples um because you know but here's the thing i do want to suggest um is this

chris i would look at how you are presenting it and i can understand why

another man's name who doesn't live in this house is like a cuss word uh because dave ramsey's name will not be stronger than anthony o'neill's name in my house okay and so i think that how we present

a better financial future is is

is the wise way to go so instead of her saying babe dave ramsey says obey dave ramsey would suggest no just say bae hey can we become debt free i you want to go on a vacation i want to take you on the best vacation instead of going to florida we need to go to italy but we can't go to italy racking up a bunch of debt so my suggestion is dr john is that how do we package this

um this conversation to where it's more attractive to his wife and that way she will get on board and then here's what i am going to say i'ma say this if your wife never wants to get on board uh this plan is not worth you losing your marriage over your marriage is the number one priority

okay and i believe together they can get there though that's right chris it's about painting a picture just like anthony said here's where we want to go here's where we want to be that might be you being vulnerable and say hey all this debt scares me that might be you opening up to your wife in a way you never have but it's about painting a picture about where

you want to go not about what you're running from i love what anthony said not about what dave's gonna make you do about who we are gonna become together on this new adventure going this way

and your heart's in the right place brother yeah this is the dave ramsey

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined with my good friend and co-host anthony o'neal you're taking your calls on life and money now let's go to christian i'm gonna hit the right button this time christian in mcallen texas how are we doing christian i'm doing well uh john thank you for uh taking the time to talk to me today and for hitting the right button this time so how can i help hey yeah yep um so i've been down

uh in texas for about almost a year now

i've been deployed or mobilized with a kentucky national guard and i'm 19 years old i have been investing the entire time i've been down here i've put away about 35 000 and i've had a tremendous year i've made about twenty four thousand in the stock market i'm doing long-term uh five-year

outlooks on all the companies i invest into my question is i'm about to be home in about a month now and i'll be starting college i'm going

to uh university of kentucky for a finance degree to be a financial advisor and i wanted to know until next fall

should i be going out and looking for just job experience or should i just keep on that grind of making money and investing it while i can at a young age christian how are you paying for school bro uh the kentucky national guard's got it covered i've got my tuition completely covered and after this deployment i'll have what's called the 911 gi bill and they'll actually be giving me around 700 a month to go to school

i love it i love it i love it i love it so your main question is what should you be doing between deployment and going to school and so what are your options right now to work and continue stacking money or what what's your other option just to

go out and look for experience

get better at sales just build up those uh crucial life skills and business skills because i also like to run my own business one day okay so i like two of these things i i think you can do both of them at the same time i'm saying work stack up some money

so you can invest some money because you already have 35 000 saved i would sit down with smart investor pro and see how you can you start sending some money into like a growth stock mutual fund uh covered by ira to start investing into your future would you say you're already doing that so i will continue doing that and start investing a little bit more into that but here's the flip side um i'm not really concerned about the actual um trying to get the

work experience i want you to network i

want you to get out there and build relationships in the career field that you're trying to get into ken coleman wrote a book that you need to read and i want you to stand on the line because 19 years old 35 000 saved you deserve a free copy of king coleman's book because it would bless you it's called the proximity principle and one thing ken talks about is

if you really want to land your dream job you need to be around some of the people who are doing what you already want to do so don't focus on trying to get a job no get around the right people this way

if you're building those relationships tell them hey can i just come sit down with you for a day and just see what you're doing and just build a relationship with you and learn some things from you yeah son come on over you know find two or three people and just build that relationship take them out to coffee man you got enough money saved and just ask them a bunch of questions

and when they talk you listen and you just keep asking questions and show them that you're hungry show them that you're passionate tell them you're about to go to school to learn this and what you'll find is when you go to school and you get that education you're going to have three people who are willing to put their name on you and vouch for you okay so that's what

i would really do work a little bit over here so you can generate some income and then on the flip side really focus on trying to build some business some business relationships that will benefit you in the future so i want you to stay on the line kelly's gonna give you a copy of ken coleman's uh book proximity principle and then also too i think you need to listen to king coleman's show monday through friday

because he will definitely walk you through the process and the journey on how to land your career job he's the number one career expert in the us right now all right let's go to caitlin in pittsburgh caitlin how are you doing

good how are you guys good thanks for hanging out with us what can we do to help yeah thank you for taking my call so um

i just got accepted into medical school for next year congratulations um thank you

and uh i just worked really hard the last two years to pay off my undergrad debt because i did the typical thing of taking about a lot of loans and going to a private school and i'm trying to not do that

with medical school since like the medical school debt is a big conversation nowadays so i just wanted you guys's advice on whether or not you think it's a good investment or what are some tricks or ways to avoid medical school debt well there's there are no tricks let me just be real to caitlin all right um one of the key things that i'm teaching people is to stop saying i'm trying to not take out student loan debt

and just go ahead and take debt off of the table completely so when you take debt off of the table completely it's going to force you to look at different options okay so let's go down that path okay if i'm not going to take out student loan debt student loans out of the picture what are your options and let me tell you right now it's not going to be a lot

and it's going to be hard okay but you can do it now you said

you've already been accepted into a school what school have you been accepted into and how much is it going to cost you uh yeah so i got into my school in atlanta and they gave me an academic scholarship

of 50 tuition it's just the other half i'm worried about cash flow because i just paid off all of my undergrad loans okay and how much is that how much is going to cost you uh let's say a year to cash fill that how much will you need a year um a year

is looking at like 25 000. okay and how much do you make a year right now uh 70 000. okay and do you are you living on your own are you living with family um i'm living

on my own okay all right so let me ask you this question if it's hard if you can pick up a side hustle if you can get online and find some scholarships let's say for example you can find another ten thousand dollars and i'm giving my website and if you really do the work i promise you you can find at least 10 000 scholarship can you cash flow the other 15 000 i i believe so i i'm doing the baby

steps right now because i i'm a recent listener so i don't have a lot of credit card debt i have about like 500 left on a credit card and then i'm in a lease that i'm trying to get out of so definitely if i work on that aspect

i think i can do it i'm just worried about the next three years like after this additional year because i won't be employed obviously after this year okay all right so here's the thing here's the next question gotta ask yourself it's gonna be a hard one is it time for you to go to medical school right now that's the question that you gotta ask and then you have to be honest with yourself now let me give

you some things that that i'm seeing working there are certain states there are certain hospitals in certain states that are low on nurses doctors nurse practitioners

that if you can go to those states if you're willing to transfer for two years if you go over to my show the anthony show on youtube i interviewed two doctors that went to school 100 debt free because they were willing to go to a rural area and serve in that community

and that hospital paid for their medical

and their medical degree and so maybe

going to school right now is not the best option but if you're really looking for it from scholarships to possibly moving to a a state or a city that you may not want to be in so you can get your experience so you can get your degree and then come back to your state or city after like two years that might be an option but if you're having a

if you're telling me you can't cash for fifteen thousand dollars then we have an income problem that we need to address first then we need to look at the medical school make sense right yeah that makes sense yeah so i i

would ask yourself and honestly have a hard conversation with yourself you don't have to answer it here on the show because i i think that's something you really need to ask yourself look yourself in the mirror is it time for me to go to medical school right now and if the answer is no take a year pay off the rest of your debt and then if you're making 70 000 your income should go up

next year to 75 you can cash flow 25 000 and be done with your program within the next two to three years and anthony you hit on an important point when it comes to law school when it comes to med school people get so excited when they get accepted yeah they will just get in line and do any next thing yeah and you can ask for a deferral

you can't say hey i got in i got this scholarship i want to roll it over start next year yeah and now i'm going to crush to answer your question 25 000 a year for med school is a good deal that's a good roi on that had the cash to figure it out thank you so much for the call go to med school and do some good things for some good folks

we need you this has been the dave ramsey show

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the total debt is around 640 thousand dollars i want him to come clean about a credit card that he doesn't know about i'm gonna probably pay student loans for the rest of my life i just don't even know where to begin and i don't know what to do i'm not scared welcome to the dave ramsey

you are not a victim you are the hero in

your story you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career everything just started making sense i was like i'm gonna do this let's hear a debt-free scream [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am john dolone

and i'm here with my good friend and co-host the one and only mr anthony o'neill we are taking your calls about life about money about any and everything give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five anthony we doing well hey man we're doing well man ready to get to these phone lines to help some people out outstanding let's go to elizabeth in albany new york elizabeth how's it going

good how are you guys we are doing well we're doing well how can we help so um my husband and i were in 140 000

in debt a hundred of it is just in student loans and we're currently in baby step two and on top of this two years ago we had our first son welcomed into the world and he was born with down syndrome and shortly after his birth i became very ill and am now dealing with a chronic illness um i'm just feeling very guilty about our current situation as

i feel like a lot of it is my fault in a lot of ways and we're working at our at our debt but um at the same time my husband and i are both working full time

so who do you feel guilty towards

i just feel guilty because i mean of our student loan debt 80 000 is mine alone i got my masters in finance and accounting and um i just feel guilty because on top of that i got like very ill where i was debilitated and basically working with fevers at home trying to keep it together and i feel like i mean the illness i feel like it's my fault and on top of that i had a son born with a disability

so what's your what's your illness

um i went on diagnose with lyme disease and take born relapsing fever for two years and it also put my body into like an autoimmune type of illness as well and i'm currently at home getting home care i have a nurse coming weekly on iv antibiotics and on a whole other host of medications as well so i want you to picture

your life as a backpack

okay so you're wearing a backpack

and in that backpack we all have one but we're just talking about yours today and in that backpack are bricks

that you may have put in there over time

that your parents may have put in there that your religion or culture may have put in there that your financial stat state wherever you happen to live life puts them in there right and some people are born with more bricks in their backpack than others some just skate free for a while but everybody ends up with bricks in their backpack okay and then you do something that violates your core moral principles right

and you that's a cinder block right or somebody somebody introduces trauma into your life and they just slam a cinder block into that backpack and you carry it around for a while when people talk about guilt for me that's when somebody violates one of their own core principles they violate their own conscience and there is a

proper and right thing to do when you violate your core set of values and that's to pick up and carry this brick i made a mistake i'm going to carry this for a while when it becomes shame is when you put it in your backpack and you say i am a mistake i'm going to carry this around because i have to when you have a beautiful wonderful baby

that has downs but it's still lovely

and hard and challenging

and different i want to change your word from guilt to grief not that you're grieving that you don't have a healthy baby that also has down syndrome but you have a baby that is different from the picture that you had in your head and i want to give you permission to say this isn't how we drew it up this isn't the picture i the fantasy i had in my head and it's okay and i love love my baby

and i love this new adventure we're gonna be on together and that's different than guilt it is a real thing that moms and dads who have children with special needs feel like they quote unquote did something to somebody the longer you carry that brick around the more you weigh yourself down the more you weigh your marriage down and the more you weigh your parenting down and here's

the thing you've got an autoimmune disease you owe it to your body to sit down as many of those bricks as possible yeah did you borrow a lot of money for school yeah you did and then you learned and i guess you learned some new information right you learn some new information

yeah and so carrying it around to tomorrow into the next day and the next day only does one thing it traumatizes the next day and the next day the next day and the one thing your body needs is as few bricks as possible

right right so i wanted to tell you you are worthy of walking around with a lighter load you are worthy of putting those bricks down that you've picked up and chosen to carry you've got a baby that is different than your than you thought but wow what a gift right

oh yeah beautiful fun messy

fun gift right it's different but it's a gift and is your husband a good guy and i oh yeah oh my gosh she's amazing and the guilt more i mean i don't

i don't feel like i mean for a while i did blame myself for what happened but it turned into more of a guilt like i can't stay home with my child because of my student loan debt and

here's the thing you've acknowledged it you pick that brick up and i want you to set it down

because all you're doing now is prolonging the gap between you and your child prolonging that gap between you and your husband because you got a big cinder block between the two of you put it down it is what it is and what you're going to do is you're going to do the best you can is as much as your health will allow to grind the sucker out you're going to pay that stuff off as fast as

you can and you and your husband are going to live towards something anthony talks a lot about this you're going to live towards a future where you're staying at home you're soaking up every precious minute with this beautiful wonderful baby and you are doing the

best you can right now to grind it out the more you drag yesterday into today the more that smells just gonna going to wrangle your whole house right right so will you commit to me and my friend anthony that you're just gonna put the bricks down today yes i will

say it out loud i'm gonna put these bricks down today i'm gonna put these bricks down today and when your husband comes home from work i want you to give him a squish of a hug as you possibly can and i want you to tell him honey i put the bricks down today i thought she was gonna say give him a squishy kiss you can do that too do them both

do them both and i want you to hug that baby yes hug that baby and say honey today i'm

putting the bricks down and you don't know a mama who's not carrying bricks around but today is going to be that day that we put them down anthony as parents we've got these

pictures of what it's going to be like i know you've got them i have them i don't have any kids i know but you got a picture of what you imagine it's going to be oh yeah yeah okay and it's never that picture uh well don't tell me that i i want to i don't want to think like that right now i want to enjoy the picture

i have in my head but hey here's the thing you're going to enjoy the reality so much more you're gonna enjoy the reality so much more it's never what we think and it's always harder and more messy and more beautiful yes sir this is the dave ramsey show

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john doloni joined with ramsey personality anthony o'neil my co-host 825-5225 let's go to luke in janesville wisconsin luke what's going on man hey gentlemen how are you doing today outstanding how can we help great well i don't

exactly have a money question uh i mean it sort of is i guess but not

really um i've been engaged to my wonderful fiance for about a year we're planning on getting married in june of 21.

and the issue i'm having is that my parents don't really want to uh accept the fact

that we're together and that we're gonna be having a future together and that we'll be married um my fiance's parents have been very

supportive this whole time and i'm very fortunate for that that like every time that i've spoken on the phone with my folks in the last year like they've never even asked about my fiance or how she's doing or

anything it's so they they're very um

fascinated with my life and how i'm doing but they never ask about my fiance so the issue that i'm having is uh first of all i i want them at the wedding because it's uh you know getting married is you know one of the best days of your life and you want family to help celebrate that but at the same time i'm thinking well long term in the future if they won't if they won't even say her name now

and what's to tell me that they're going to be supportive you know 20 30 years from now in into the future

why don't they like your fiance

i don't know that's a million dollar question you have some inkling like my parents like my wife way better than me way better yeah

well that's not hard that's a low bar i get but yeah you have some inkling your mom has made some off offhand passive aggressive comments your dad's been passive like what what is it about her or at least guess well i i don't think it's anything specific about my fiance now i've i've dated other people in the past and it's been the same it's been the same thing every person that i've dated

so are you the precious little son that nobody will ever be good enough for you i think that's a big part of it i mean i've got one other sibling okay so here's the deal here's the deal luke um save yourself a lot of heartache and headache number one if this is the person you're gonna marry this is who you've decided to marry it is what it is what

it is you're doing something called catastrophizing that's the nerd word and what that means is you are painting a picture of what might happen next year 5 years 10 years and 20 years from now and you're allowing your body to respond to it right now as though it's happening

and one way to cut through all of this grief all of the i don't knows and this could happen in 30 years from now if my parents don't fill in the blank is call your dad call your mom

and say we just need to have a hard conversation do you not like my fiance or guys i'm marrying her

i want you all to be on board with this i want y'all to be supportive of us i want you to love me and the best way you can love me is by loving both of us but this is gonna happen and then you move on from there and you may find out that they don't know how to talk about it they may not not like her like

you think they don't like her or you may get some real good clarity that they hate her they wish think she's the worst person ever they think you should break up with her either way you're gonna have some clarity because when you get that clarity then you're gonna know well then i don't want you at the wedding or you're going to feel free to invite them your parents are going to be have have

the permission to have their own feelings about it but you're not going to let them dictate it because they don't get a vote they're not living your life right how hard would that conversation be luke it would definitely be hard i mean we've had um when when i when i popped the question last december i i wasn't living near my parents it was about a thousand miles away

so i called home to tell them the news you know and uh it was a very very

weird phone conversation unlike anything that i've ever had with them uh it was it was more of like they were they were almost yelling at me out of anger that why why i would do this in my life you know why i would ask this woman to marry me it was almost as though i was supposed to ask them for permission before i did it which i did not do how old are

you i was gonna say how old are you man how are you bro we're both 26 years old being my fiancee all right cool man here's the savage side of me

if your fiance hasn't done anything to disrespect your parents or your family no she's been loving she's been caring she's been respectful um and and this is the woman that you

feel is your wife god is saying move forward

um yeah bro i'm just saying what i would do i'm not saying this is the right thing to do

big difference let me say this but what i'm going to do this is what i would do um my my my family will get the message

very clearly for me that this is my wife this is where we're going when they ask me how are you doing i'm saying we are doing well and until they can respect her then my family wouldn't talk to me now i'm not saying you to do that i'm just saying my family will know this is a grown man we have to respect

where he's going and we need to respect his wife because the last thing you want to do and i could be wrong here again i'm not married i'm not a marriage counselor but the last thing you want your fiance soon to be wife to feel like when you get married is that you don't have her back with your family ding ding ding and you need to show your family up front like yo

listen i want to talk to you but

now this is my priority this is my

number one family and you're number two and so it's like if you can't respect her that means you don't respect me and if you don't respect me then we can't talk so luke why haven't you had a conversation with your parents and i'm asking you this because

you're a few months away from being a married man you're a few months away from legally and spiritually binding yourself to co-create a new future together

and i'm concerned about what the next christmas is going to look like when your mom says xyz what the birthday

parties what the first when you have your first kid and your second kid and your third kid you don't seem like somebody who's

able to have a hard conversation and not even a hard one a direct conversation this ain't hard at all and a direct conversation with your mom and dad why haven't you had that conversation yet well i've i've tried to nope no no no

why haven't you had that conversation yet i guess i would rather not deal with

their criticism and i know that's what he will

criticize his fiancee his decisions his choices

exactly exactly yeah um and i realized

it really it shouldn't bother me i i can't control what other people say do one thing hey luke it can bother you and

you can't control other people's thing

right yeah and so i'm gonna suggest

you're not ready to get married until you're ready to sit down and have an adult grown-up conversation with your parents huh have a grown-up adult conversation

with your parents about your direction where you're going to go like anthony said i i know we tell this guy john not to get married because he's scared to talk to his mom and dad i'm it's a i'm painting a broader wisdom picture if you're ready to join lives with somebody you're also able to say hey mom and dad here's who we are gonna be

right okay yeah no that

that that makes sense is that fair i get it absolutely so pretty much what he's saying luke is go talk to your mom and dad so you can get married you know go tell them up front this is what we about to do let's talk that's right you know and uh that's not a hard conversation if you love this woman you calling her right now i mean not hurt

you calling your mom and dad right now and i'm gonna tell you you're gonna have a conversation to have with your fiance because she's absorbed all of this yeah and she has felt second fiddle to your mom and second fiddle to your dad too and let me say this too your honeymoon night because you step up to your mom and dad is gonna be real good oh

and then anthony went there this is the dave ramsey show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance

but rather a federally approved exemption to the health care law it's a time-tested model to help take care of your health care costs it's christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills adjusting to a new system of paying for health care was kind of tricky but that's where chm stepped in and they really helped navigate that water with the hospital and the payment want to see if chm is the right fit for your healthcare needs check out our website at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org backslash

budget it was just such a relief to know

that financial burden was going to be taken care of

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this is the dave ramsey show i'm john deloney with my good friend co-host mr anthony o'neal triple eight eight two

five five two two five let's go to haley in dallas texas hayley good afternoon how are we doing i'm good how are we all very very well how can we um help i am 22 years old and i have

about thirty thousand dollars in checkings eight thousand dollars in savings um i have like a 730 credit score

zero debt and i own two cars um i just wanna know more about what i can do to improve my financial financial situation and what kind of investments i should start looking at haley okay

let's i mean oh my goodness i'm loving this

conversation right now okay i'm loving it i'm loving it i'm loving it you have thirty thousand dollars in savings eight thousand dollars in checking 22 years old are you educated do you have a bachelor's degree i actually did not go to college i just enrolled in real estate online school oh and

so what do you do for a living um right

now i'm a marketing coordinator at a mortgage company and i also bottle service on the weekends oh come on working hard and uh what's your debt looking like right now hear that zero debt come on

let's go i'm getting excited right now i'm sorry all right you called in for help not for excitement um what what is the next thing you should be doing at 22 years old exactly what you're doing right now living intentionally uh being a good steward of your means

now uh with you having you just enrolled in real estate school because you're working for a mortgage company so this means you want you want to get into real estate love it so you're going to cash flow that part all right are you doing any kind of investing right now

i'm not okay so my money's just kind of sitting and saving so i want to do more

let me ask you this question too and i mean it's paid for but why do you have two cars um so one of my cars isn't in so great

condition it needs a couple of things

but then my other cars just i have an audi

that i bought in high school um

cap and then i just this year bought a toyota because bottle servicing i drive 40 minutes and i wanted a yeah i love it love it love it uh sell that car today sell it go go sell the audi don't don't try and fix it uh just sell it someone will buy it from you put that money into your savings and what i would do haley right now is

the very first thing i would do is i'll go ahead and open up a growth stop mutual fund which is covered by ra so you can start investing 15 of your income into that okay that's the very first thing that i would do now there are some other options as well that with your age and with the kind of income that you're making right now the income you're about to be making

when it comes to the real estate uh space uh you can really start investing into some other different areas i would encourage you to speak to a smart investor pro okay i just go to daveramsey.com type in smart vessel right there and and you'll find some areas not some areas but some people in your area that will sit down with you but one of the key things that i'm seeing with real estate agents they're not doing a real good job of saving

and investing their money for retirement okay and so what i want to encourage you to do is to really jump on the phone with a smart investor pro go ahead and just tell them hey i want to open up a uh ira invested into a growth stock growth stock mutual fund um i want to start maxing that out and then what are some other options that i can be doing at

this young age with you doing this at 22 if you can do this sometime next week before thanksgiving and give yourself a good 30 to 40 years haley just from your investments alone you will be a multi-millionaire now i think you're going to be a millionaire just from your income and how you can be doing in the real estate world but just think about it if you're

if you can get your income to a million dollars a year and then you have investments worth a million dollars a year at 40 years old man you're going to be in such a great place so that's the very first thing that that i would do is one continue living with intentionality continue being a good steward of your money continue living below your means because it sounds like you're living way below your means

i want to commend you for that right and then four start investing as much as

you possibly can into your retirement not just into accounts for five years no have a strategic plan um about

that um you know this is what i want you i want you to hold on i love giving away people stuff i you you don't have like a big big book just yet you're redefining she ain't ain't just about nothing so we got i'm not gonna give her your book but i want you to hold on haley uh because you are a future everyday millionaire and kelly's gonna give you a copy of chris hogan's book everyday millionaire and i want you to read this book okay this book is going

to show you what millionaires are are doing and what they did to become a millionaire if you can have that mindset at 22 years

old oh my goodness so hold on a phone hold on the phone hey i'm so proud of you uh hold on the phone kelly's going to take good care of you man but john 22 what were you thinking at 22

not that what about you

oh man 22 i started thinking like that

but i was in debt like crazy

i wasn't even close to thinking about nothing like 22. yeah i mean i was you know i was a basketball coach i wanted to win basketball games and you know it looks flashy and this is one of the things maddie and i'm not trying to plug myself but i am trying to plug myself here plug it um this is why i'm so passionate

about helping young people understand at

20 in their young 30s that if we can shift our mindset and really start thinking about the future by being a good steward today so we can have something to stand on tomorrow and build on tomorrow our world is

so so so much better and one of the key

ingredients to really building a life for success is identifying your why now a lot of people hear this but have heard this before but like if your why doesn't make you cry that's what everyone hears and you don't have you don't have a deep enough why but i want to go a little bit further if your why doesn't make you cry then the price of commitment will make

you cry and so one of the key things i'm trying to teach young people is get that deep why why do you want to be successful what's going to get you over the hump of when people tell you you're not making smart moves you need to get this credit card you need to be in debt you need to have this you need to have that no if your why is not deep enough

then you're going to fall into that trap this young lady has a clear why that's why she was able to have thirty thousand dollars at 22 years old sitting in the bank account check this out with no degree no degree i was gonna say with no degree no degree and so this is what i'm talking about on my show uh the table with anthony o'neil on youtube

it comes out every monday about to release a podcast so i want young people parents if you hear me right now my show ain't for you i'm gonna be real but if you're in your 20s and if you're in your 30s if you know 2020s and 30s 30s they need to go over youtube.com because that's what i'm trying to produce other young people in their 20s and 30s

really becoming debt free having a strong savings and building strong wealth so we can change

the future that our younger people coming up can see i love it and speaking of young people going to get it this doesn't have to just be young people it just happens to be a lot of the time yeah do you know we have over 130 people

on our creative team here at ramsey solutions lots of brilliant minds creative people

i saw what they did with my photoshop they took a picture of my face anthony they made me look handsome bro they made me look handsome too i thought that's a lot of creative energy in one space we act as one big an in-house agency that supports all types of business units our team is currently looking for passionate product designers with strong visual design skills and a background in user experience

and user research if you've been impacted by our mission and want to spread our message of hope if you your 20s 30s you want to change

your trajectory yes we want you to apply for a position on our team today find out about all the available jobs at daveramsey.com careers we are doing work that matters

and we have more fun in this building

than any job you can imagine and man not just in this building even outside brothers i can't men listen battle the bands every year just getting around the fire pit folks going to hang out at different cruises people coming over to each other's houses we've been voted by one as one of the best places to work in the country in the country by inc magazine young folks old folks any creative person you get to work with dave ramsey john deloney rachel cruz anthony o'neil ken coleman christy wright and even

chris hogan come on apply today at daveramsey.com careers get it folks this is the dave

ramsey show

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today's scripture is psalms 20

verse 7. some trust in chariots and some

in horses but we trust in the name of the lord our god simon sinek says vision is the ability to talk about the future with such clarity it is if we are talking about the past

vision is the ability to talk about the future with such clarity it is as if we are talking about the past hold on let me hold on to that i like that quote i like that quote all right let's go to kaylee in hoboken new jersey kaylee how are we doing doing well thank you both so much for taking my call you bet thanks for calling what can

we do to help i have a question on how to approach investing with my fiance or discussing all our future investing we're both 27 years old graduated from state schools debt-free and have each about i feel like a hundred thousand dollars in our retirement accounts and some personal investing so i think we're doing great but his strategy is much more single stock focus because he works in finance

and kind of thinks that he you know he's smarter than the indexes i guess and i'm much more about mutual funds and

and being more i guess safe with my investing and i'm trying to get him on board for a future because i don't want us to argue about how we should be handling our money once we're married yeah yeah this is this is a good question right here and i wish her uh i wish he was on the phone with you um do you all um seek guidance from a financial

advisor or is he your financial wizard

um no we both use um people that our families used okay okay that's prague yeah that's

probably don't use who your family use use who you two need to use you understand what i'm saying so this

is what this is what i want you to do i want you to ask your husband hey can we together because i love how man we are young we're investing and we're winning right now financially but i just want to talk to like a different financial advisor that can really just really help us get to that next level like yo husband can you think about us being a multi-millionaire he'll get excited don't say anything about

i don't like how you're doing single stocks just say hey i really want to go sit down have coffee with someone show someone our portfolio and see how we can flip this portfolio and make it even better and then let the financial advisor from there advise you to on like hey this single stock route is not the best route mutual funds stuff like this is the best route

and so what i would do if he says yes then i would just go to smart vessel pro and just find a a few of them in your neighborhood see which one you are comfortable with and sit down have the conversation because i think we can give you all the stats on the phone and then the last thing i want you to do is go back to your husband say well anthony

and john and dave said well you don't want to tell another man what another man said okay absolutely right yeah so i don't want to set you up to lose because as soon as you say well anthony said well who the heck is anthony

in his house so i would say hey i enjoy

this i love what we're doing we are winning right now um are you open to sitting down with another financial advisor and literally having coffee having lunch with them and allowing them to talk into how do we make this even better and from what i think about your husband i think he's going to be totally down with that uh because it just means it just means more money y'all's pocket down

the road and then allow the financial advisor to call out like hey single stocks that's not the right to go because nearly 70 percent of people who invest into single stocks lose their

money you do not want to be in that

stat okay so that would be my recommendation yeah i love that and i love anthony you told him going to a finance guy who's won the last few years and said this i know it feels good i know we think it's always going to be raining yeah but there's going to be seasons of drought yeah he's not going to hear that yeah right he's not going to hear that no and so the answer to this question is

often less a math problem and more of a heart problem yeah and i even want to say this too dr ian i want you to answer this question because this is our second time today um you know just hearing this

question and i hear this often and i'm like man we got to say something because i don't want to i want people to feel like i don't i don't love my own leader dave ramsey but the last thing you want to do is say dave said right you know you got to figure out how to get your partner or whoever you're trying to talk to your loved one on board

because that's what you passionately feel you know about you can say i've done some research i listened to the dave ramsey show i read some books i've done this and i think this is the route to go without saying dave anthony chris dr john

said like you got to be passionate about

it right dave wrote the plan right right dave lived the plan has created the plan yes but dave's not waking up in your house every day come on dave's not going to be sitting on the front porch of your paid off house while your grandkids are running around in the yard you are yep right yep and as you talked about earlier you have to be your why

the picture of where you and your spouse are going to live someday that's got to be your why not just because dave said so now it's fun when both you and your spouse are on board yes and you're living it in it's fun to blame dave for everything yeah my little brother he is him and his wife have been grinding for years he's got all these weird odd jobs he'll text me from under a picture from underneath

the house and he'll say look what dave's making me do it's it's part of a family joke right they're on it together but his wife's not coming home saying you're going to do this because dave said so yeah right yeah then you're using dave as a weapon yeah instead of as a as a guide as a path right exactly that's right all right let's go let's get one more

let's go to joe in philadelphia joe good afternoon how can we help hi how

are you so good so good um

so i've been actually working in the last couple years on the debt snowball but i read in rachel's book a couple years ago and recently our situation changed where my husband's father-in-law or his my father-in-law he passed away and left us a great

you know deal of uh money so

our situation kind of changed where you know we're gonna have the ability to pay the rest of our debts off and we have money that we're going to be able to have in our investments that are like we're trying to get rolled into investments but we still have a mortgage on our home and uh the financial advisor when i she asked me what i want to do

i said i want to pay my house off and she absolutely said no of course she did because she's not going to get any of the commission off the rest of them

yeah that's exactly how much do you owe in the house uh joe co260 okay um but we would have 700 000

in investments and um we actually have more cash other

than that we would even have so i feel like i should take that cash pay off the house pay off the house i mean without even i want to breathe easy at night yeah yeah and joe if if there's not some

significant ties here i want you to get a different yes um

financial advisor this is somebody that doesn't have your best interest in in mind this they have their best interest in mind and i want you to find someone who is going to sit down and listen to you and learn your goals one of which is to be completely debt free one of which is to honor your father-in-law by being a good steward of this money not that's going to make them a quick return joe is this a smart smart investor uh

a what is this is your financial advisor a smart vester i'm not quite sure i can tell you no anthony because they wouldn't ask that kind of question so what i'm saying is joe that's great i want you to go to daveramsey.com find you a smart investor on there that you can explain all your dreams to they will guide you down the right path and they will also tell

you pay off your home you have seven hundred thousand dollars in investments you have extra cash on reserves you are on the right track one of the key things we found when it comes to building wealth and chris hogan's um study on everyday millionaire was they had a paid for mortgage okay so buy

pay off the mortgage get rid of this weird financial advisor that just wants to commission check and go get you someone that's going to help you build true wealth and what they're going to do is they're going to say listen interest rates are 3 i can make

you this much percent in the market yeah and they're gonna they're gonna punch some numbers on the 10k and they're gonna say ccc this is an easy math problem and what you're gonna say is i'm in this for the long haul this is a heart issue yes it's a psychology and a spiritual issue it's not always a calculator issue i want to thank producer james childs and associate producer kelly daniel

the wonderful engineers in the booth i want to thank you my brother anthony o'neil hey man thank you wish everybody a wonderful thanksgiving season this has been the dave ramsey show

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you

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## 171. The Hard Road Is The One That Moves You Forward | December 1, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. It's Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsay personality, and my daughter is my co-host on this Thanksgiving eve.

If you don't know, William Henry Seard, William Seard was

Abraham Lincoln's Secretary of State. He

was also the brains behind that presidency in a lot of ways including he wrote a lot of Abraham Lincoln's speeches that became worldrenowned and

famous including this proclamation that was issued October the 3rd 1863 right in the

middle of the civil war. The Civil War

would end about 18 months after this was

proclamation was issued by the president of the United States of America. Here's Lincoln.

The year that is drawing towards its close has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies.

To these bounties which are so consistent, constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come. Others have been added which are of so extraordinary a nature

that they cannot fail to penetrate and

soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever

watchful providence of Almighty God. In

the midst of a civil war of unequaled magnitude and severity, which has sometimes seemed to foreign states to

invite and to provoke their aggression, peace has been preserved with all nations. Order has been maintained. The

laws have been respected and obeyed, and harmony has prevailed everywhere except

in the theater of military conflict.

While that theater has been greatly contracted by the advancing armies and navies of the Union, needful diversions

of wealth and of strength from the fields of peaceful industry to the national defense have not arrested the plow, the shuttle, or the ship. The axe has

enlarged the borders of our settlements, and the mines as well of iron and coal

as of the precious metals have yielded even more abundantly than here to for.

Population has steadily increased, notwithstanding the waste that has been made in the camp, the siege, and the battlefield. And the country rejoicing in the consciousness of augmented strength and vigor is permitted to expect continuence of years with large

increase of freedom.

No human council hath devised nor hath

any mortal hand worked out these great things.

They are the gracious gifts of the most

high God.

who while dealing with us in anger for our sins, hath nevertheless remembered mercy. It seemed to me fit and proper

that they should be solemnly, reverently, and gratefully acknowledged

as with one heart and one voice by the whole American people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States and also those who are at sea and those who are surjouring in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving and praise

to our beneficent father who dwelleth in the heavens.

And I recommend to them that while offering up the ascriptions justly due to him for such singular deliverances

and blessings, they do also with humble pentance for our national perverseness and disobedience commend to his tender

care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourers, or sufferers in the

lamentable civil strife in which we are unavoidably engaged. and fervently

implore the interposition of the Almighty hand to heal the wounds of the nation and to

restore it as soon as may be consistent

with the divine purposes to the full enjoyment of peace, harmony, tranquility, and union. In testimony whereof I have heretofor set my hand and

caused the seal of the United States to be affixed done at the city of Washington this third day of October, the year of our Lord, 863. President Abraham Lincoln.

Wow. I've read that every year that I've been on the air for 30ome years and I never get over it. Some of you people think I'm a cornball, but it's my show so shut up. I'm just signing up for head cornball. That's me. But I mean, the president of the United States

issues a proclamation to say thank you

to God for his blessings.

And if you didn't hear that in there, you weren't listening.

That's exactly what this says. And uh

it's so far a field from the way people think today and especially people in Washington DC think today. And uh but

man, what a great reminder of the greatness of these men.

>> Yeah. >> And that their source was their faith.

>> Yeah. Well, and the acknowledgement of where they were at, you know, they were not naive to what was going on. And even the line with the >> uh I don't know if I've ever I mean I You said you've read this for every >> Yeah, I read it. Read it every every Thanksgiving Eve. >> Done the show with you on this.

>> It's part of part The other part of the cornball experience. The other part of the cornball experience is as you call in today, you have to tell us what you're thankful for. That's your ticket to own the show. >> There you go. There you go. One thing. I love it. Um, but no, where it was the

the part with those who are mourning and those who are orphaned and widowed. You know what I mean? Like it's it's the reality of the world.

>> And so I like that they don't shy that he doesn't shy away from it. And yet >> rising above to the greatest message of what can be and what we're all, you know what I mean? It it rises you up out of it. >> Yeah. It's a different I Yeah. And and even I mean Seward is Secretary of State, so he goes ahead and sends a message to the uh other countries that

think they might come in while we're weakened and let them know we're at peace with you and you probably want to keep it that way. He just sent a he just sent a little shot out over the bow there. >> This is it. This is what caused Thanks.

Like this is the official >> this is the formation. Now, George George Washington did a proclamation that actually I don't know whether AI's

got this wrong because it's picking it up out of Reddit because nothing you read on Reddit's true, but uh somebody posted a thing the other day that sounded similar to this from Washington.

So, I don't know if that's a mess up or if Seward stole some of Washington's proclamation, but George Washington did do a Thanksgiving, but this is the time that the actual made it a national holiday, the third, >> the third Thursday of November, and it was in the middle of the Civil War. And it is so poetic and people don't say beneficent anymore.

>> I I've never said beneficent in my life except when I've read this. So, um, yeah, that's just I mean it's amazing though when you just say the the the hand of the Almighty.

>> Yeah. >> I mean that this is vernacular that we don't use and we probably should.

>> Hello. We probably ought to step back and go, who is really in charge here.

Guess what? It's not a Republican or a Democrat. Get Thank God. You know, I

mean, because they can mess up Christmas and Thanksgiving and so I mean, my gosh.

But I thank God, you know, thank God it is God that the al that watchful providence of almighty God.

>> And the almighty hand to heal the wounds of a nation. Yeah. >> And to restore it. >> It's beautiful. >> Yep. >> Beautiful. Very poetic. >> Oh, happy Thanksgiving y'all. >> Happy Thanksgiving. Amen. Open phones here at8255225.

Everywhere you turn this time of year, someone's telling you to swipe a card now and pay later. But that mindset always leads straight to debt and postol

stress. Fair winds Credit Union takes a different approach. They're here to help you win with money. Fairwinds doesn't push credit cards. They help you build savings and stay debtree just like we

teach with the baby steps. And to do that, Fairwinds created the Smart Bundle with Ramsay fans in mind. It's more than a bank account. It's a tool to help you live with intention. The smart bundle includes a no fee checking account, a high yield savings account, and the exclusive Ramsay Be weird debit card,

which says debt is normal. Be weird right on the front. So every time you swipe it this Christmas season, it's a reminder that you're choosing a different path to spend no more than you actually have. To avoid that January budget hangover, and to be free from debt traps, go to fair winds.org/ramsey

to open your smart bundle and get your Ramsey beweird debit card today. That's

fair winds.org/ramsey.

insured by the NCUA.

Bradley is with us in Oregon. Happy Thanksgiving, Bradley. What are you thankful for?

>> I am thankful to live in America.

>> Amen. >> A lot of countries in the world like, you know what, for all the problems in America, I'd rather take care. I'm thankful that almighty God put me here.

>> Amen. Amen. Thank you, sir. How can we help? >> Yeah, quick question. This might be one of the shorter calls on the Ramsey show.

My question is, where in the baby steps is a person financially secure enough to quit a job that they don't like and start doing what they do want to do? My current job is paying decently well, but otherwise I don't like it. As soon as I get to the point where I know that I can quit, I will hand them my resignation notice. >> What would you go do?

>> What's that? >> What would you go do?

training and um training horses and trimming their hooves. I can make pretty good money underneath a horse. The only problem is that I need to get the clientele built up. And so there'd be a couple month time lag there that I need to have some >> So what is it called? A f a frier.

Frier. What's it called? >> A frier. >> Frier. Yeah. >> Frier. Um horseshoeing trimming that kind of thing. >> Okay. And so uh why can't you start that as a side hustle?

I I do that on Saturdays and holidays and evenings and stuff like that as I do my current job. I'm working up to 60 hours a week. Um so there's not always a

whole lot of time in evenings >> and stuff like that. >> Can you dial back the hours on the job you hate?

>> Unfortunately, no. >> Okay. Cuz what I'd love to do is um it's

not a baby steps thing and it's not really a how much money you have in the bank thing. It's a can you when you can get your income on the frier uh side hustle up close to your current income

then it make you know you can make as much doing that then go do something you like instead of something you hate right

>> so what are you making as a frier what what was your income last year >> well I don't it's not a full-time it's just >> I know did you not pay taxes on it

>> um >> no okay so what did you make do you have any idea >> it's about1 $100 an hour when I do it.

So, a Saturday could be $300, $400

without any problem at all.

>> So, let's say you're making a couple grand a month on a good month.

>> Yeah. >> What do you make at your day job?

>> About 5,000.

>> Okay. >> A month. >> All right. So, how close do you want to get the 2,000 to the 5,000 before you

walk out is the question. Pretty close.

I want to step into the boat. I don't want to leap to the boat.

>> Right. Exactly. So, I'm going to figure out some way to dial up the side hustle and get that moving. And the only other thing you could do is just pile up a huge pile of cash to cover you till I make the transition. But honestly, I've had people that that that screws them up because then they live out of that cash instead of making their business work.

They don't want you to make this new business work and know that it's going to work and know there's enough horses in your area, enough business in your area for you to make $500, $6,000 a month. And do you feel like realistically, Bradley, that that's that's possible?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely possible. There's quite a bit of money in this area and a lot of horses um

pastor ordinance kind of thing >> for your uh who's your competition country.

>> Not very many people. Unfortunately, failures have a reputation for not returning calls and stuff like that. So, anybody that returns calls and >> So, if you're price reasonable and you're price reasonable and return the call and show up, business is going to be all over you.

>> Probably, >> Bradley, for a month, how much does it take to operate your household where you're not stressed, but you're like, you're comfortable? >> Uh, 4,000 is pretty tight.

>> Okay. Okay. >> Does your wife work?

>> She's a full-time stay-at-home mom. She works more than I do.

>> I didn't mean that. I mean, she I should have said, does she earn an income? I'm sorry. Okay. Uh, no is the answer. So, um, she does not earn an income.

>> Yeah. I just want you to get close to where you're not just, you know, jumping off and praying there's water in the pool, right?

>> Mhm. >> So, that that and the only way to do that is some I I would prescribe and I've done this. That's why I can say it.

I I would prescribe that you take your side hustle and make it highly uncomfortable for a year because you're working like an absolute maniac to prove to yourself and your wife that you can make a living doing that by getting your income up to three four $5,000 a month on the side hustle and push back on your existing job. Try to get as much time as you can away from them legally without hurting them in any way and that kind of thing. But 60 hours is pretty much a stretch. uh if they get if you can get dialed back towards 40, you could really use that extra hours to crank up.

And that means you're not going to see a television or a sporting event, you're going to be doing horses hooves for a year, dude.

prove to yourself that you can do this, walking out on the other thing is very easy. >> Yeah. >> Let me give you an example. Let's pretend, and this can't happen, but let's pretend that you you could make $7,000 a month with a side hustle. You could quit your job in about 30 seconds, right?

>> That's what I'm trying to get you toward. You're not going to get to seven, but if I can get you close to the five, then it's easy to make this decision.

>> Well, and I assume, too, if there's people around, if you're making 2 to 3,000 on just Saturdays and nights, you

can easily pick up another thousand. So, to me, it feels feels doable.

>> Yeah. I think what I'm telling you is crank up the intensity about six notches on the side hustle to prove to yourself that it's okay to quit and make it your full-time gig.

>> Mhm. >> That's the prescription. It's not a baby step thing. And it's not you got to have $10,000 in the bank. It's not any of that. Cuz if you had $40,000 in the bank and you burn $4,000 a month in 10 months cuz you suck at doing this business on the side and it doesn't pan out, all you did is quit your job and go broke.

And that's not what I want you to do.

And sometimes people do that stuff. So doing it this way makes you prove to yourself that the market is there, that you can make a living doing this, and you build it and grow it from there. And that's exactly the direction I would go.

Aby's with us in Virginia Beach. Hey Abby, what are you thankful for?

>> Hi, I'm thankful for family. I have um a

husband and two little babies right now.

>> Busy at your house. How can we help today?

>> Um, so I have a question about debt and then buying a car and then renting versus buying. But anyway, my husband and I are on baby step number two. We have about $50,000 left in our debt. Um,

and we have 202 right now and we're

thinking about purchasing a new car just because with two little kids, um, our cars are cramped right now. Um, and then also, um, we're renting currently. My

husband's in the military, but we were thinking about buying a house. So, I was just curious what your perspective on those would be. >> Are the cars are they running okay, Abby?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, they're both 2015s. Um,

my car I mean they're they're both, you know, 10 years right now. So, they are starting to have little things like I just replaced my AC a couple months ago.

Um, my husband just had to get something done on his car. I can't remember. But they're both kind of like having small hiccups currently. >> Yeah. And do you guys have any money saved?

>> We do. We have about $17,000

in like our savings emergency fund.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And how much debt do you have? 50.

>> Yeah. So I would >> about 50. Yeah. It's student loan debt.

My husband went to law school, so we've paid about 25,000 of it or no, I'm sorry, about 30,000 of it, but we have 50 to go. >> Okay. Well, yeah. So, I would honestly, Abby, I would throw that money at the debt and I would I would be driving the cars until you guys are out of baby step, too.

So, no, you don't need to buy a house. And I really wouldn't even buy a new car. I mean, I would I would push myself and it is I know there's probably so much stuff.

um, >> what's your household income?

>> Um, he makes about hundred,000 a year.

>> All right. So, if you put se if you put 16 of the 17 on the debt, had $1,000,

which is the true baby, then you would actually be on baby step two. Right now, you're not. >> Okay. Okay. >> Then you would have $33,000 left and you make $100,000 a year and you live on beans and rice, rice and beans, and you attack this debt with a vengeance.

Aren't you out of debt in a year?

>> Yeah, I would hope so. >> I would hope so, too. And so one year from now you move up in cars and then you start saving towards your emergency fund and then you start saving towards a house. >> Okay. I guess to not hold you guys up

but also with the like attacking the

debt is it

I guess how do I say this? Um, I don't

work. I'm a stay-at-home mom. So, like sometimes trying to adapt debt is hard because I

don't work. >> No, it's not hard. You make your husband makes $100,000 a year. You need 33. That

leaves 67.

That's if you want to do some side stuff, that's fine. But you have two littles. You being at home, we're not going to shame you for if that's what you're asking. But you know, buckle the kids in the tight little car for a year and get yourself clear, girl. And then you can go live a good life.

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Brian is in Oregon. Brian, what are you thankful for on this Thanksgiving Eve?

Uh, >> family for sure. >> Amen. How can we help today?

>> So, uh, thanks for taking my call. My fiance and I are having a debate we want your help with. So, uh, May 8th of 26,

we will be blending families and we'll have we have five children at 30, 29,

28, 27, and 23. I have uh two life

insurance policy, one that she is the sole beneficiary of, and then one that my children would be the sole

beneficiaries of. So, um, she

thinks that I should leave both policies to her and let her distribute that equally and which I'm not in disagreement with. I just we're just kind of looking for some direction that way. >> Okay. The purpose of life insurance is not to leave an estate. The purpose of life insurance is to support the people you leave behind that are counting on your income to eat. None of those grown people should be counting on your income to eat.

Okay. >> And so I would not keep a life insurance in order to distribute to them whether directly or indirectly through her.

That's not a reason to keep life insurance. Um I wouldn't go to the expense. I would use my money bill wealth and let that be distributed to either her or them in the will. Um and

you can decide that then. So uh what do you make >> a year? >> Mhm.

>> Well, that's a that's a great question.

uh um barely graduated from high school,

almost uh flunked out of college, but um

withdrew before they kicked me out, and I make probably about 180 a year.

>> Well, sounds like you've overachieved.

Well done.

>> Good for you, buddy. What do you do, man? That's awesome.

>> Well, I I I'm blessed. I I have a dream

job. I uh I'm an electrical inspector

and then I have a side hustle.

>> Good for you. And what does your fiance do? >> She's a teacher. >> Ah, okay. So, she makes what?

>> Uh, she makes maybe 60 to 70 a year.

>> Okay, cool. All right. So, what I would do is put your new household together in such a way that if something happened to you that she's in good shape.

>> That's what insurance is for. And the same thing vice versa. If you're dependent upon her 70 a year to eat, then we would want to replace that income by having a lump sum to invest.

And that's what life insurance is for.

But to leave it to a 31-year-old child, no, not in a chance. I'm not keeping that. I'll put that money in my pocket.

And tell till >> I want you to know that she's probably smiling very big right now because she

said that very same thing.

>> Oh, wow. So I do wonder though it's always hard with blended families when you get married later and you have adult children and a new spouse enters when you are redoing your will your estate

>> very difficult figure.

>> So that would be more of a question Brian I think for your kids of what's left to them of yours. Um,

>> I mean, let's let's say yall have let's say you had a million dollars in your 401ks, right? Saying >> instead of life insurance, we're changing the discussion to keep the but to keep the spirit of the question alive for a second. Um, yeah, what would we do with that? How do you distribute that to a blended family? Uh, well, the first thing I would do, um, I don't know.

Okay. So, um or like if you came into

this marriage with some money as an example, that that that kind of in your mind is allocated to your kids >> upon your death more than your spouse, but you obviously love this person and want to take care of them with some of the money you're bringing into the marriage. So, that's something that's the same sticky wicket as they say that you've got to have that same exact discussion but with a different product.

Not life insurance, but a pile of wealth. If you don't have a pile of wealth today, you don't have to figure that out. But it's it does it is a good

thing. It's a healthy discussion to have

especially in the fiance stage.

>> Well, that's what I was wondering with your fiance where the spirit was don't

leave them anything. They're fine. Or was it oh no, it's life insurance. They don't need life insurance. Do you know what I mean? I'm sure that's what I was trying to gauge of um >> Yeah. No, I think it's I think it's more of what you said that they're 30 year olds. They don't need any kind of large lump sum of money to and and it's not that she wouldn't distribute it equally.

It's just that I just >> had a notion that I just wanted to do it that way. But >> well, I mean, so what I what I would tell you guys to work through a similar question. So the question is she wins on the life insurance thing. Okay, you you don't need life insurance to do that. So let's don't do that. But now let's have a similar discussion that says as we build wealth, if I die before you or you

die before me, how much of it's going to be left to the remaining spouse and how much of it's going to be left to the kiddos?

And um if if you guys are starting without much wealth right now, you're starting your new marriage without a big net worth, it probably would just be it

all goes to spouse and the spouse figures it out. Mhm. >> But often times when you got blended, you're come, one of you is coming into the like I own a house and I got $400,000 worth of equity in that.

>> Okay. And the fiance's how how does that

go to the fiance's kids, >> right? >> You know, that doesn't make sense kind of, you know, and you kind of got to go I don't now I got to talk through that.

And these are good healthy discussions

because it makes you work through um

>> because what >> you know what what because people assume things. >> Yes. >> And you don't want to assume things >> and what he just said a little bit of like well she just said they don't need a big pile of money.

>> Okay. Well they don't need a big pile of money from a life insurance policy because that's that's not the reason for life. But do they need a big pile of money from their dad who worked hard and has some and then you just get you know what I mean? That's a different pile of money. Yeah. And I don't know how to I I don't know.

Uh but that's that's a decision and discussions you guys have to have when it comes to your will and your estate and your assets.

>> Um >> that's that's hard. That's hard. But it is the reason it's important is to come if you can come into alignment on those kinds of things when uh there are no uh

uh emotions or limited emotions because

we're not in the middle of grief or we're not in the middle of a cancer diagnosis or we're not in the middle of

>> uh an argument after death with the ones left behind. Uh you know, well, daddy always said he's going to give it to me and now look at that gold digger. She took it all. You know, that kind of crap, right?

And that's exactly how it sounds 99% of the time if you don't work this stuff out ahead of time. So you need to work it out ahead of time because you guys coming into agreement on that is more important for your marriage and your relationship than it is actually about the distribution of the money. >> Yeah. And the health of the family after you know >> and everybody and then everybody knows >> Yes.

>> You know. >> Yes.

>> That's what just like the cereal. You get nut and honey. That's the deal.

>> What's that? >> It's a cereal.

>> Cheerios. >> Honey Nut Cheerios. >> Yeah. Nut and honey. Yeah. It's It's a thing. >> Probably in the early 80s. That's >> Well, it might have been in the 70s. I don't know. I have flashbacks these days. It's my age. So, um

>> flashbacks from commercials from the 60s, but yeah. >> Oh my gosh. >> Uh anyway, that's what you get. Nothing, honey. I mean, you tell them upfront.

Everyone needs a will. And if you're going to piss somebody off with a will, do it while you're alive. Don't leave it

to the people left behind to do all all the getting everybody getting pissed off thing. Go ahead and deal with it. Have the backbone to implement it. Have a reading of the will while you're alive.

It's highly uncomfortable. I call it the Monty Python meeting because I sit there and listen to what's going to happen when I die that I have planned out and I'm going, it's just a flesh wound. I'm feeling much better. You know, I'm really not sick.

And so, you know, >> when Dave dies meeting, that's like basically what's on our calendar. That's what we call it. When Dave dies meeting, you know, once a year and everybody knows that way. There's no freaking confusion.

And it's really healthy for everyone involved, but particularly >> the husband and the wife, >> which means to do a will. We had our money and marriage event um Dr. Deloney and I a few weeks ago and we were walking through a financial checklist in one of the sessions talking through I mean it was kind of boring. I was like free spirits, you got to stay with me because it's kind of like a boring boring adult stuff.

about a will for a good bit of just what that looks like, what to do. And then afterwards, at the end of the whole weekend, we had people write what they're going to do with their marriage when they leave, you know, certain things they're going to implement. Um, and we, you know, I was thinking like communication, you know, our thoughts about intimacy, like all these big discussions we talk about. There were so many that said we're making a will, which means they don't have one.

So, it's a reminder to all of you out there, make a will. Mama Bear Legal Forms is a great site. >> We need to get Mama Bear to throw that in in the package when they come all the way over. >> I'm not kidding.

The amount of people that were like, "We're going to do a will. >> Do a wheel while you're sitting here." >> You like you have to work. So do a state specific.

You can save the fees for all the attorneys and everything. If your net worth's over a million dollars, you need to do a, you know, a more detailed one.

But I'm telling you, do a will.

>> When'd you do your will at a marriage conference?

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. >> That's exactly >> these are the two options.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

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Jake, what are you thankful for?

>> I'm thankful Christ died for my sins, Dave. >> Amen and amen. >> Better get that. >> Never gets old. Never gets old. The greatest story ever told. How can we help today? >> Amen. Well, I recently read your book,

Total Money Makeover. Uh my wife and I have been kind of paying attention to your show for about a year now and we've been able to merge our finances. We used to have separate accounts uh but we've merged everything together. Uh we've been paying down on our debt, but I would like to be more intense about it and I I don't know how to get her on board with that.

I don't want to be forceful. It's not my will to be forceful about it with her, but I would like us to be more intense and get out of debt. Okay. So, what does that what does that mean practically?

Do you feel like you could be I mean, how much more money do you feel like you could be throwing at the debt per month that you guys are just spending >> quite a bit? Um, we've got we've got two car payments that I would love to get rid of.

She's not on board with that, at least at this time. Um, debtwise, we have just

under 300,000 in debt.

>> Counting your mortgage. >> Um, >> that's everything. Yeah. >> Yeah. How much is that your How much of that's your mortgage?

>> About 184 in a mortgage. We have >> You have $16,000 in debt.

>> No, no, no, no, no. 116,000. Okay. I missed it. Okay. Yeah. 116. Okay.

>> That sounds about right. Y is that what what does that consist of? >> The second mortgage.

>> Okay. >> What's your household what's your household income?

>> About 160 170 a year without overtime.

>> How long y'all been married?

Uh boy, since 2012. I got to think for a minute. Uh 13 years.

>> Okay. >> When did you guys just start this? You said you just read the book and you're starting this process. How long has it been? >> We started this at about the end of March of this year. >> That's when you combined the finances.

>> Yes, sir. We've been talking about doing it for a number of years, but we just never pulled the trigger to get it.

>> What does she do? got ourselves into.

>> She she works for uh

trying to trying to find the words for it. She they they deal with like selling

uh health insurance benefits to businesses. Um she's like a consultant doing that. >> Okay. And what's her um hesitation when

she when you said, "I want to sell the cars," and she doesn't. What's her reasoning behind that?

>> She just doesn't want to. She likes the car. And I don't I don't blame her.

there. I mean, we bought both of them brand new in 2021.

>> Yeah. >> Um, but you know, she she doesn't want

to sell that and get into something unreliable. We live in the north where it's uh winters are harsh and we neither one of us wants to be in something unreliable driving our kids around. But >> yeah. Yeah. Um, out of the 116, how much are the cars? What are the car pay the car loans?

>> The 25,000 owed on hers and 23 on mine. So half

half of it's cars. >> Okay.

>> Yeah. The other half well almost uh and

again 49 is a second mortgage. We have about 18,000 uh in credit card debt

which we've been hammering money and paying down a lot of credit card debt.

So that's >> Have you cut up Have you cut up your credit cards?

>> Uh I have not cut that one up, but it is not >> We don't use How often do you go out to eat?

>> We don't. We cook at home. We uh we I

hunt and and fish, so we provide as much of our food the natural way that we can.

>> Well, that's nice.

>> Well, you got a good place to do that.

Um >> so B, so do you So again, this not

selling cars would not be gazelle intense. I understand that. And then per month, how much could you where else could you be saving money? What else would you cut out that you would if if it was up to you, where are you guys spending that you want to cut?

Um I guess we we budget we budget uh a little bit extra in the

um each month for just you know things

pursuing our own interests I guess.

>> So this mainly comes down to the question of intensity or gazelle intensity ma mainly comes down to the car discussion. Is that what you're saying?

>> 100%. Yeah. All right. That's fair. All

right. So here's here's what I would do. I would just sit and keep having the discussion. What? Here's >> Sell your car, Jake. >> Yeah. That that you can you can lead by selling yours. >> Yep. >> And not hers. >> And I'm looking into that right now. >> Yeah. And but but tell her, but we are

making this decision, not you. Okay. We

are I I'm willing to get rid of mine so that we can advance. And here's the thing. The reason that people don't cut up a credit card, the reason that people continue to go out to eat, the reason that people go on vacation is they don't think they're going to win.

>> If you think you're going to win, you'll sacrifice to win.

>> But if you sacrifice and don't and don't win, no one wants to do that. That's psychotic.

>> Okay? So, selling your cars and then being broke for the next 5 years is not a good plan. That's weird. We We're not asking you to do that.

You're not asking to do that. But right now you're talking about selling a car instead of talking about the dream of what it's going to be like when we don't have a stinking payment in the accept our mortgage and we can actually build some wealth and pay cash for whatever kind of car we want. We're going to live like no one else so that we can live and give like no one else.

The two of you dream together in high definition of what life is going to look like when we finally get all this crap away from us and we're not normal anymore cuz normal sucks. and Jake as

much as you can. I think it's sometimes helpful because it sounds like she's probably more of the free spirit in the relationship. You're probably more of the of the nerd.

>> Would you say that's right? Very much so. >> Okay. So, use your your nerd advantage

and honestly make some >> make some scenarios. I feel like that's always helpful when people feel like that there's just like this is the only thing and like and exactly what Dave was just saying like sell the cars and then it's like okay what's after that? Like what what what are we doing? There's something about having a scenario.

Scenario one, Jake sells his car. Uh we find an extra $800 a month in the budget. Like whatever it is, like boom boom boom boom, we're out of debt in x amount of time, then we're going to be able to save x amount per month to upgrade the car and here's the reality, right? And then scenario number two, if we both sell the car, scenario three, if we don't sell either car and we just pay it off, here's how long we'll be in debt.

So if you can get some details down and you guys look at a couple of different options and different plans of how to get there, how to get to this goal of being debtree, uh it feels more realistic, too. >> Let me give you an example of what Rachel's saying. Let's pretend you didn't have a car and you're calling me and saying, "I want to take out a car payment." And I say, "Well, the average car payment is 500." It's not anymore.

It's a lot higher than that. >> 720, but if you Okay, $750. Okay. So, for 10 months, I want you to save $750.

What is that? $7,500. Buy a $7,500 car for cash 10 months from now. 10 months later, you'll have $7,500. And a $7,500 car doesn't go down much in value, so you can sell it for $7500. Put that with a new $7500, you got a $15,000 car. A scenario is that 20 months from now, you are driving a $15,000 paid for car instead of being saddled with a stupid butt car payment of $750. That's a scenario that shows you a way out. It's taking instead of like drive a hoopty

that doesn't take me anywhere. I I I need something more than that. So, where are we going with this thing? That's what Rachel's saying. And that's the way to handle it, Jake. And you're a good man. She's a good woman. This is going to work out for you guys. It's going to be okay.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. Happy Thanksgiving to you. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz Show.

Ramsay personality, my daughter is my co-host. Thanksgiving around Ramsay. Uh

we're pretty much a cheese factory around here. We like celebrating this stuff and we like Christmas and we like uh anything that makes the kiddos smile which makes Papa Dave smile and makes the mom and daddy smile and that's what turkey does. So uh we're are a thankful

family. We believe in gratitude. We believe in generosity. These are things that bring you great happiness. So when you call in today, your ticket of entry is going to be what you are thankful for. The phone number is88255225.

Mike is with us in Tampa, Florida. Mike, what are you thankful for?

>> I'm thankful for my wife and the life we have here in Florida. >> Awesome. How can we help?

>> Yeah, Dave. Um, my wife and I um have been using every dollar for the last 10 years. We went through Financial Peace University and we've been debtree for 5 years. I'm at retirement age now and we

have um we're a blended family with four adult kids and one of my adult children, a daughter uh eloped with her um now

husband to f to Hawaii last year and

just sent me a text and said that they're going to have a wedding a destination wedding in Spain this summer

and traditionally it's the parents family's responsibilities to pay for that wedding or to contribute. And my

wife and I discussed it. We don't agree with that. They will have been married over two years by the time this event takes place and we don't feel obligated

to uh support support that. Okay. And just wanted to get your advice.

>> I like it. Yeah. I mean, it's your money. So, where did this uh entitlement

that she's entitled for this come from?

Uh, I think she was raised that way by

um my ex.

>> Okay. Was there some of that attitude?

>> Okay. Was there any discussion, Mike, uh, a year ago before they eloped that you guys were going to plan a wedding and you were going to help with it and then they were like, you know what, we don't we just want to elope. You know what I Like was there ever discussions, any expectations that was set at any point that you were going to help >> or is this just a Okay, so that that was never even talked about.

>> Is another daughter gotten married and you paid for it and you said, "Well, well, whatever we did for her, we'll do for everyone." >> Nope. No, I didn't. I didn't. My other my oldest daughter got married, didn't ask for anything. We went to the wedding. >> Oh, wow. Um yeah, but this dollar they

um they waited a month to call us and even tell us they were married and uh we went up as soon as we heard. We uh bought airline tickets, went to where they live. We went up for the weekend to celebrate their wedding, took them out to dinner, spent the weekend with them, and we felt like that that was the right thing to do. >> Yeah, totally. >> And um and now she's it kind of >> and in Spain. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So, how long have you been divorced from her mom?

Oh, 20 years. >> Okay. And she's how old?

>> 33.

>> Okay. So, she was 13,

>> correct? >> Okay. And, um,

so a lot of times in that scenario,

um, you end up build rebuilding a relationship a decade after the divorce.

>> Does that sound right? >> Huh? Yeah. Yeah. U she we had a call

last Sunday and she pretty much unloaded that kind of stuff on me. That goes back to when I remarried. So Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

So, um the reason I bring that up is the

way you described she didn't tell you she's married, so we're going to go visit. That kind of felt like olive branch stuff from someone you're not real close to.

>> Yeah. I'm not frankly not close with any of my daughters. >> Okay. >> For for pretty much the same reason.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Because divorce is nasty.

Yeah. And um Yeah.

>> Okay. So then this request is not

entitlement. It's a guilt trip.

>> Uh partially and partially I think it is. I think she does have what I call the princess complex. She she feels like she comes for money and >> Yeah. Um, let me >> She'd have to go find that source cuz you're apparently not it.

>> Maybe you have it, but that doesn't mean it's hers. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm um, you know, uh, so here's the thing. Pick up a

book by Dr. Henry Cloud called Boundaries and you and your current wife read that

because you need to be prepared. She does not respect boundaries. And when you set boundaries with a boundaryless person, they seldom react positively.

In other words, there's not any version of no, she's going to be okay with,

>> right?

>> And um and so I just want you to be prepared for that cuz there's some heartbreak that goes with that. So, I mean, you've been trying to reach out. You've been trying to re-engage as her dad, as an adult dad, a dad of an adult

daughter, and now she's coming in with this wild thing, and it's going to harm

whatever positive moves you've made.

But that is also the proper still the proper thing to do. But I just want you to know it's not this is not going to be easy for you. It's going to hurt,

>> right? >> Cuz she's going to throw a fit and say, "I'm never going to speak to you again." or something like that. >> Well, she's going to turn into the victim. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Already. >> You've never been there for me and you're not there for me now, you know, in this kind of bull crap, right?

>> Yes, sir. Exact. That's the exact conversation we had last week.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, you've already told her you already told her no.

>> Yes. I I She She basically pushed it.

So, I called her to ask her, you know, why why this place? why they felt like

they needed to have another event after they were already married. Uh it didn't make sense to me. And they they both went and got a master MBAs and I I don't

think financially um that they should be spending money on a destination. I think they've probably got some um student debt. I don't know.

I don't know their finances, but I would assume I would assume that. And um so so

yeah, I I just don't think they're making wise decisions and um and I I

actually shared that I thought maybe they could have made a different decision. They didn't like she didn't like my answer. >> Yeah, >> I I there's no form of no, but piling on

to their financial decisions, it probably didn't help at all. So, um, but the, um, anyway, I I think I would just keep it very clean and very simple and just say, "Listen, my love for you and my desire to have a relationship with you guys going forward has nothing to do with money and it has nothing to do with how you handle your money and it has nothing to do with Spain. Um, uh, you know, I but I'm not I I don't feel at

this stage, the way our relationship is today, the way your life is built today, we don't feel good about this. And so, we're not willing to pay for this. I'm so sorry. I know you probably don't understand that and I I I'm prepared for

you to not understand that, but >> Yeah. And I almost would be I would caution putting it on a condition

on her. I wonder if it's a hey, we've talked and we've decided we're we're we're choosing not to spend this money.

>> We're looking at the situation >> and my hope is that Mike, you know, that there is some reconciliation in the relationship, but again, this is going to >> make it be a barrier to that, which is so sad. You know what? U it was going so well until she started demanding things.

>> Right. Right. So >> we we like we like the husband. We we offered to come and support the event.

We just and we told her that, you know,

we had put in our budget for all the travel and all to go, but that we just couldn't afford to also contribute. I'm not going to pay for it. I don't think you're wrong. I don't think you're wrong at all. I just want you to be prepared for the backlash. I'm sorry.

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Click the link in the description if you want. That might be the easiest way to get there. Thomas is with us in Austin, Texas. Thomas, what are you thankful for?

>> Hi, uh, my wife and kids.

>> Cool. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I'm on baby set 3. They've been doing great, following off plan, and recently I got approached by a family member about some uh financial advising.

So, we did a couple sessions, but now they're trying to tell me that my term life policy is not great and I should be getting disability insurance and term 80, and it just all feels like more of a self ditch than financial advising. And,

you know, a family member, I don't know how to think about it. Am I crazy? and

and I just don't know how to approach that.

>> Okay. So, what you're telling me is is that you smell stink.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Then end the conversation.

>> Absolutely. The first sessions were great. But >> I don't I don't care what they're selling. Even if what they're selling is good, you always end the conversation

around money when you smell stink

because your smeller is better than anything out there.

Trust your instincts is what I'm saying.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. I don't know what this product is.

You haven't described it. I don't even know what the family member does. I don't know if they know what they were doing. Maybe they were changing oil at Jiffy Lube 3 weeks ago. Now they're a financial planner. That happens fairly often. Okay. I don't know any of that.

But you smell stink, Thomas, and I trust your smell.

Just end it based on that. to say, "Listen, thank you for the help so far.

We love you. We're just going to remain good family members and we're not going to move forward with any financial products with a family member at this time." >> Have you already put your money with them, Thomas?

>> No, not yet. >> Okay. Okay. >> Don't >> Yeah.

>> Okay.

Okay. So, just stay with what I got.

Stay the course. >> Yeah. Don't Don't argue about the products. Don't argue about family.

Don't argue. No is a complete sentence.

This is a very quick, calm, kind sentence. We've talked about

it, my wife and I, and we've decided not to move forward with any financial problems at this time. >> Yeah. And we just want to keep our money and our family members separate. And it just feels cleaner that way. And >> thank you. Thank you for offering all this. We appreciate it. Have a good night. Bye-bye. It's like a It's like a 15 or a 20 second thing here. We're not getting into a dayong debate about this.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, what I want to do is give you give the power back to you. >> How close is the family member, Thomas?

Is it a sibling? Is it a aunt or uncle?

>> No, it's a cousin.

>> It's a cousin. Okay. >> Cousin Eddie.

>> Yeah. It's got stink on it. So, uh

listen, here's the thing. How long's this How long's cousin been in the business? Financial business.

>> Uh uh couple months. He just graduated college this year and started moving.

>> Yeah. So, I think you're good. >> Yeah. So, you're you're smelling the right smell. Let me tell you about the business. Okay. From the outside in, just to give you some more power. I don't want you to share any of this with cousin. >> I just want you to have the knowledge base, okay? Because it will give you some strength.

80% of the people that start selling life insurance are out of the business in 12

months.

>> Wow. >> Yeah. Here's what the life insurance business is based on. They hire your cousin so he can work what's called his

natural market. That's what they call it. his natural market are people that he has influence with, not because of his financial ability, but because of his relationships. And so he calls his old friends from high school, his fraternity brothers from college, he calls his wife's friend on the soccer

field, he calls all of his cousins, and

he sits down. And once he's run his run through that list, he's out of prospects

and he goes out of business because they don't furnish him any new leads.

They use people to get to their

relationships. That's their marketing model. It's called working the natural market.

And that's why 80% of them once they run through their natural list, they're out of the business. And that doesn't mean they're bad people, but your cousin is quite frankly being taken advantage of.

You see what I'm saying? So if you put your money with them, you're not going to be working with him in a year. He won't be there anymore 80% of the time.

So he couldn't get a better job. This is the one he took. Let's just >> or he fell for a sales pitch of how much

money he could make and >> Yeah. Yeah. All the things and all that bull crap. So, please walk away.

And and um >> and especially and and let me just give you this. I'm like, he just graduated college a few months. I'm like, he's just a kid. So, like genuinely, if he was like had been in the business for 30 years and he had a reputation, do you know what I mean, though?

And like I think it would be kind of a harder kind of slap in the face of like, dude, this is my job. I've been doing this for 30 years. And you know what I mean? If it's your old uncle and and he's good at it, it'd be kind of like, sorry, that's awkward.

But he's like a 21-year-old who just started this. So I'm like, "Yeah, you're good." >> He's selling knives next week and we don't want to buy the knives either. Thank you, >> Cutco.

>> Yeah, but guess who sells them? Same exact model, >> which is great. >> Same exact model. You go sell your grandma, you go sell your aunt some knives and then you're out of the business.

And that's what you work your natural markets. Exact same pots and pans thing. It's an old marketing dist distribution method. It's been around >> for long.

It's not a And it's not a Okay. Well, I don't know. >> If you don't think the person's going to succeed once they finish working their list and you're only hiring them to access their list, that is wrong. Yes, that's ethically wrong.

I I >> That's fair. That's fair. Okay. >> So, um Yeah.

But >> think about the Girl Scouts, you know, they go to the neighbors. They >> I don't know.

>> But the Girl Scouts are not making a career off of your money. That's fair. Okay. That's fair. >> They're just making you fat with the thin mints. >> Yeah. We love the Girl Scouts. We love you. And so, yeah, that Yeah. Well, that's it. That's how the thing works.

Now, uh, so there's

a good rule of thumb, uh, tr what I'm

trying to get you to do, everybody out here, is trust your instincts. Okay? Uh,

I I just love the proverb that says, "The simple sees danger and moves forward and is harmed for it.

The wise senses danger and seeks refuge

and becomes safe." And so when we go against this smell

test, every one of us have that moment.

We're in the middle of b doing something stupid with money and you have the opportunity to not do it and you go, I

knew better. I knew better. How many of you have done something dumb and you look back and you go right in the middle of it, I knew it, but I just was caught up in the moment. I was caught up and it was a family member and I just felt guilty and I felt trapped and bad d and you you knew though that it was bad. And

Thomas, I'm just telling you, man, trust the smell. And it doesn't mean your cousin's a bad dude. I'm not saying that. I'm not even sure these products are bad. I think they probably are. I think it's probably whole life bull crap, but um but I'm not sure. I don't

know who what it is or what he's selling. Um doesn't matter. The point is

you don't need to be doing business with him. And because the hair stood up on

the back of your neck, rattlesnake in the bush. That's what happens. Your your body has a physical reaction when you sense danger. And it's it's the lizard

brain prompting you and going, "Don't do it. Smells bad." >> Mhm. >> Skunk in the bush. Don't get over there.

You know, it's it's a simple thing. But we we we get all all of us get all intellectual and sophisticated and rationalize our way past >> and want to be nice. That's another thing. >> And we want to be nice. We want pass, you know, and we just walk right past the stink right into the skunk.

>> Yep. Yep. There's a book the gift of fear and it's a guy who was who used to do security but he wrote this whole book and mostly towards women about I mean physical safety but how many stories it's like oh I got a bad feeling but I still let him help me unload my groceries to my door you know what I mean like bad things happen and it's like that whole I mean that's like his number one thing and don't don't be afraid that like you know you want to be a kind person but sometimes it's like you don't have to be nice it's okay like it's real not nice than dead the gut the gut reaction is True.

So Thomas, whether it's this or something else, >> trust trust your instincts. >> God, it's God's spirit in you speaking up. It's saying, "Don't do it. Don't do it." And uh Thomas, you notice how quickly I took you there, Thomas?

I didn't even know what was going on.

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Well, it t the season. It's that time of year. In a few weeks, we're going to be doing a special giving edition of the Ramsey Show. We want to hear stories from you about how generosity has impacted you. Maybe you've been the giver or the receiver.

Maybe you've been in a had an incredible story that will inspire others to give by something that happened to you or through you. We want to hear about it.

Go to ramiesolutions.com/ask and put giving in the subject line. We do this every year at Christmas time and it is one of our most popular shows.

It's going to be December the 18th. So start sending in your stories now.

ramseyolutions.com/ask.putg put giving in the story line and in the subject line and tell us a little bit about the story and we'll get in touch with you and make you part of our annual giving show. It's very inspiring. John is in Los Angeles. Hey John, how are you? >> I'm doing well Dave. Pleasure to talk to you today. >> You too. How can we help?

>> Um so a quick question for you. Little advice. I have a feeling I know what you're going to say but I just need confirmation I guess. Um, so,

uh, father of six, been married for 15

years. Um, income around just north of 200. We have

zero consumer debt. I have a outstanding

mortgage balance of about 220 with a

mortgage rate of about 2.875.

Um, I've come into a sum of money which is about 200.

And so what I want to do, what I think I know I

should do is just pay off the house and

move on with my life. But that's

easier said than done when you're sitting in the driver's seat and you got that interest rate.

>> Mhm. Okay.

>> Um there's several there's several layers to the answer.

>> Okay. Um, I'll give you a couple of the layers, a couple of the lenses through which you can look at this uh that that reinforce the answer. Number one, we did

the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, Ramsey Research Team, 10,167 of them. The number of them out of

10,000 millionaires, 89% of them were

first generation rich, meaning they were not inherited money.

Nine out of 10 of America's millionaires are first generation rich. Okay. Then we

start asking, okay, how'd you get there?

What technique did you use? Where'd your money come from? Did you win the lottery? Um, the number of them that

said, I had a good interest rate on my mortgage, so I didn't pay it off and I

invested the difference and that's that made me a millionaire. The number of them that said that is precisely zero.

>> Yeah. So this idea that you use borrowed money on your house to become wealthy is mythology.

It's not true. It doesn't happen in the real world. So your theory is bull crap

is what I'm saying. It's not your theory. It's a theory that floats all through our culture. >> Yeah. But you can just understand how that >> I can understand it, but I'm telling you what I understand how you got there, but I'm telling you what the data says.

>> Okay. So that's one way of looking at it. The second way of looking at is through a spiritual lens. The borrower is slave to the lender. And people react

to their careers differently and their

generosity differently when they don't have a house payment.

>> Yeah. >> Regardless of the interest rate.

And so they tend to maximize their careers because they're not trapped.

>> Yeah. and they don't feel like they have to put up with some unethical or inefficient or crummy job because they got this stupid house payment even though the interest rate's great.

>> And John, out of all the people we've talked to throughout the years, whether it's at events on the show and people

that have paid off their house, and we ask them, do you regret it? Do you hate having a paidoff house?

>> Precisely zero. Nobody Nobody regrets it. And even if you do regret it, you can go fill out a mortgage.

>> If you want to Google Dave, >> if you want to Google Dave Ramsey sucks, you'll see a lot of reasons that I suck.

>> Oh yeah. >> But never never one time will you see

that Dave told me to pay off my house and I hate him.

There's not one. They'll tell you I suck for a lot of other reasons. That I'm awful. >> No, I don't think you suck. I know, but I'm just saying it's just of all the of all the trolling and all the critics we get, they're all people that haven't paid off their houses.

>> But we don't get people that paid off their house cuz I told them to that are mad at me. None. Zero. Nada. So do it.

Pay it off and enjoy your great life, dude. And if you hate being debtree, go

get you a new mortgage later. You know, you can always go back in debt. I promise you they'll put your butt there if you want to be there.

Tyler is in Atlanta. Hey Tyler, what's up? >> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What are you thankful for today?

>> H just another grateful day on earth.

That's that's all you can wish for.

>> Amen. >> How can we help?

>> Um so me and my wife, we got married in

May. Um we actually we got uh married at

the courthouse. Um but we're having a wedding in March of next year. Um, so not a lot of people know that we're married and we live in Atlanta now and

we're going to move back home down south. Um, we have a couple thousand

saved up in the bank. My wife wants to buy a house um, immediately when we

move, but I want to live with my parents

or her parents for a couple months and save up even more for a bigger down payment so we don't have >> more of a payment on a house. Um, >> and be able to save for >> How old are you guys? Uh I am 24, she is

26. >> Now what's your household income, sir?

>> Uh 8 grand a month.

>> Okay. There's nothing evil about any of the choices that you put in front of me.

Uh there's only things that are smarter.

One thing's smarter than another thing.

That's the only question. Okay? So in other words, if you do any of these things, you're probably not going to ruin your life. You follow me? So, if

you move in with your parents, probably not going to kill you for a little while. If you go buy a house, probably not going to kill you. My answer is I wouldn't do either one of those things.

>> I'd go rent a one-bedroom apartment for a year as cheap as I possibly could over

the garage of a rich old lady's house and mow her grass for half the rent and pile up as much cash as you can pile and don't be living with your mommy.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely.

And I'd pile up as much cash as I could pile up and learn the neighborhood and learn the area because it takes a year of being married to know how far from your mother-in-law you should buy.

>> Yeah, they're great people. They're great people. So,

>> I'm talking about your wife.

>> Yeah. Tyler, be be newlyweds and not go

share a kitchen with your parents. Like just >> Yeah. You make eight grand a month. You're killing it. >> Yeah. Just go y'all go rent somewhere for a year. >> And you're going to a small town. I got a feeling. >> Yeah. Yeah. And we're in Whose Whose

town is it? Yours or hers?

>> It's actually both of ours. We both uh We both grew up there. Both of our parents are there. Um we're in So you

know the town. >> Are you Tyler? Are you guys debt free consumer debt wise or y'all have payments? >> Um, so we have a little bit of debt. Uh,

probably altogether it's probably 10 grand, but we have 70 in the savings.

>> 70,000.

>> Yeah, 70,000 savings.

>> Okay. Well, >> um, >> okay. >> We our six grand is for our honeymoon

and then we have some other pay that pay that off tonight, honey.

Okay. >> It's not It's not a pet. Get rid of it.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. It's not It's not the case. >> Yeah. And then you guys figure out, you know, your emergency fund, which is going to be part of the 70. And then beyond that, what you want to save in a year to for a down payment because you guys are getting get close. And with a small town, hopefully housing prices, you know, it's not like the Bay Area. So hopefully you can get into something >> and y'all be great.

>> Yeah. And I can modify it a little bit since I found out both of you are from there and it's a small geographical area. You already know the town >> so I don't have to give you a whole year but at least 6 months. Just go rent something for 6 months.

Get settled in become married people. Everybody knows you're married. It's a March thing happens all that stuff. And then you start looking for a house and by then you can have saved up a little bit more money.

>> And that's quick.

>> You guys are going to be fine. You're going to be fine. Just Yeah. It's a marathon. It's not a sprint. You're doing good.

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Sylvia is in Seattle. Hey, Sylvia, what are you thankful for?

>> Uh, well, Dave, uh, this is a hard Thanksgiving. Um, my sister died a few months ago. I'm sorry.

>> Oh, uh, the holidays are difficult to

say the least, but I do have things to be thankful for and, um, so I'm trying,

she would want me to live and not to,

you know, just survive. So, that's what I'm trying to do. And, um, >> good for you. >> And so, thank you for asking.

>> That's a healthy outlook. So yeah, you know, people need to real I'm a registered nurse and so people need to understand how important your health is.

>> Um Dave, real quick, I'm a registered

nurse. I retire in June. Um 40 years um emergency and

pandemic and such. Um, I was raised I'm

the youngest of seven army brat and was raised by parents in the depression telling us um to uh pay yourself first.

Know the difference between wants and needs and to save. And so that's what

I've been doing. Uh currently I have a

home I just bought a year ago after losing one in the recession in 08.

Um took me a while to build back up, but I bought a year ago. That's my only um

debt. That that mortgage is 3,400 a

month. I uh have an emermergency fund of

about 130,000. I have investments of

about 1.2 million. I'm getting uh I'll

get 3500 in social security and 2,000 in

a pension.

My question to you, which is different from most, is I've my whole life, my

father's um voices in my ear to save save. Um my

financial counselor now tells me, Enid, it's it's time to um to rent or to um to

start spending.

So, I don't know how because in my head

it's like keep saving, keep saving. And

so I wondered if you could help me um or

give me some advice as how I flip that switch. >> Yeah. >> And and start to live because my sister would want me >> one one detail. Uh what is the balance on your mortgage?

>> 500.

>> Okay.

All right. Um

to your question then uh there are only

three things that we can do with money.

We can we can save it and invest it, which you have done with glory. You're a millionaire. Way to go. Congratulations.

By the way, what's the home worth?

>> Uh about 850.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're worth aboutund You're worth about $1.5 million is your net worth. Okay. And the um

So, that's absolutely incredible. You're a millionaire nurse at 66 years old and

uh you're obviously with the language you're using single. Were you ever married?

>> I was um part of that whole early on uh

in my 40s um I uh we got divorced and um

he had debt that I had to >> Yeah. >> pay off. So, you know, >> so that also that also left a mark.

Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. So, so

again, there's three things that we can do. So, Rachel and I wrote a book years ago was her first number one bestseller called Smart Money Smart Kids on teaching children how to handle money.

And we taught children that there are three things that they can do with money. And parents job is to teach them to do all three things. To give, to save, and to spend wisely.

Okay? and to teach them to work, which is where money comes from to do all three of those things. Okay? So, that that's the lessons we teach kids. As adults, there's only three things we can do with money. We can give it, we can save it, and we can enjoy it or spend it, which is what your counselor is saying. Now, we don't want to ever do

just one because it's not a well-rounded

life. And that's what your counselor is saying. You become an expert saver. Your savings muscle is really big. You have

big muscles on the savings side. Your

spending muscle is puny.

Your giving muscle is probably underdeveloped.

Am I right?

>> Um >> not accusing you of being greedy. I'm just saying you don't give a lot of money. >> I, you know, give to uh give to my church. what I have done. Um I don't have children and um my will I finished

my will. >> I'm talking about your monthly giving in your budget.

>> Yeah. So it's my other than um to my church and what have you. Yeah. And >> Yeah. And that's 50 bucks or 100 bucks or something. Yeah.

>> Right. >> Yeah. Okay. That that's what I'm saying.

So uh and you're a millionaire almost a multi-millionaire. So, I want you to increase your giving.

I don't care to what. And I want you to

increase your spending. Now, I don't want you to be irresponsible.

If you're 1.2 million is invested in mutual funds, it should be producing about $10,000 a month in income. You

don't need that much income.

>> Yeah. How much income do you you're going to have 3500 already coming in >> and 2,000 with a pension >> and two and so you're going to be at 5,500 coming in. Can you live on that comfortably?

>> I'm living on that now. So >> Okay. >> You know. >> All right. Good. I mean, do you want to live on that or do you want to spend more than that?

>> I mean, uh, both my sisters, you know, as I told you, recently passed. We're going to do some things once I retired. They already had. Now they're gone. Um, you know, I

guess I'll, you know, I don't know what I'm I've got to start thinking about what I'm going to do when I retire. Um, as a nurse, um, >> travel, >> you know, I don't I >> right. I don't want to travel by myself, but yes, I can I can travel. Um, >> okay.

>> Yeah, I got to start thinking about this stuff. And yes, I will be giving away my money. My sister did. >> I don't mean I'm not saying All I'm saying is is that I want you instead of giving a hundred bucks away a month, I want you to give away a thousand a month.

Yeah.

needs some groceries, you know, >> right? >> And just just because there's great joy in that. And then and then I want you to look up and I want you to say, "I'm making $10,000 a month on my investments above what I need to live.

What does that look like on spending?

What are we going to spend that some of that on? I don't want you to spend it all." But let here's the point. If you

spend $15,000 a month for the rest of your life,

including your pension income and your investment income, you will die with $1.2 million.

You're okay. You did it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> That and if you get that math in your head, then it gives you permission not to be crazy. I don't want you to go spend 300,000 on a car. That's not what

I'm saying. Okay. But I am saying 15,000

a month is way more than you ever thought about spending it. That blows your mind just saying that, doesn't it?

>> Yes, it does. I can't imagine.

>> Yeah. And I don't think you're going to do that. You're the chances of you overspending are zero.

>> Now, what about this mortgage?

>> Yeah, I'm worried about this mortgage. I want this mortgage to go away.

>> Mhm. That becomes the second part of the goal is we need to clear this debt because it's the most destabilizing thing in your life right now. It's a big

mortgage and I don't really feel good about taking 500,000 out of your 1.2 and paying it off today. Um, but I'm going to start working out of that 15,000 a month and work that mortgage down too.

>> Okay? because I'd like you to have no mortgage and and and and so incre I want you to build up your generosity muscle and your spending muscle >> up to and and your debt reduction muscle, those three things up to 15,000 a month once you start drawing down on

the 1.2. So you sit down with your financial advisor and you start drawing the income off of the 1.2 too to go with

your pension and go with your other stuff and you throw it in a checking account. >> Any part of you would just take like 200 of it and just kind of make a dent.

>> I'd like to get the mortgage down a ways and then just knock it off.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't want to make a front end dent.

I'd make a backend dent probably. I I I just >> She's Yeah. We've first got to get her enjoying the money a little bit.

>> Yes. >> It's time for sure. So, I think you got a good person in your corner, whoever that is counseling you. I like their advice.

Good question, Sylvia. The chances of you overspending are almost zero. No chance we could get you in Congress.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. It's Thanksgiving Eve here at Ramsey, so we are asking you what you're thankful for.

And there's always something to be thankful for. and stopping and as the

old saying says count your blessings is not a bad idea by the way it's your entry to the show today if you want to get on we're going to ask you what you're thankful for that's how it works open phones at825-5225

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one bestselling author my daughter is my co-host today Noah is with us in

Cincinnati hi Noah what's what are you thankful for >> oh gosh too much my family and friends and everything in between. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. Sir, how can we help today?

>> Well, I have been wondering for gosh, a

year or two now uh if I should buy a new

car. Uh my wife has a nice car. It's

probably worth about 20 grand. It's kind of the family car. Um I drive a van for

work and I drive um when I need to. I

have about a $2,000 car and there's

nothing wrong with it and I drive it all the time and I guess I'm I've just I

haven't bought a new car because it feels kind of frivolous because I don't need it and I've been looking at them for for so long and I I just am not sure

if I should do it.

>> How much money do you have, Noah?

>> Um, well, I know what you're going to say. Um, you're going to laugh at me.

I've got probably about 540,000

between investments and and a brokerage account.

>> Okay. What's >> Why would I laugh at you? That's great.

Well done.

>> Yeah. I just uh I guess cuz I'm just so hung up on on buying a car. So, we're going to say you have enough money. Do you have Do you have any debt? >> Yeah.

Uh, no. Just a house.

>> Okay. What do you owe on your house?

How about 200? >> Okay. All right. I'd buy a $10,000 car

and pay off your house.

>> I thought you might say that.

>> How about a $30,000 car?

>> I don't care. You got the money.

>> Okay. >> I don't I don't know why you why you want to go from a 300 to 30,000, but if you want to, I don't care.

>> Um Yeah. >> And what's your household income, sir?

uh about 175.

>> Okay. And so the two cars together would be about 50 and that's way less than half your annual income. And yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

>> That fits. Pay cash for it and pay off your house. Um and so uh yeah, uh uh

you're not doing anything wrong, but I would move up in car just from a reliability standpoint. And you know,

it's just they don't make them like they used to. Thank god. um new cars and the

newer models are a lot nicer. I mean, >> I've got a 1960 Corvette rebuilt and

>> you know, and I've got a a fairly new Corvette and the new one's a lot better, you know. So, yeah, I I'd move up a little bit, you know, and um the the other one's kind of a cool antique, I mean, but it's not, you know, it's um

Yeah, >> the other one's a better ride. You'll Yeah, enjoy it, Noah.

>> Yeah, enjoy it. You're doing a good job. some fun this holiday laughing at you, but it's just, you know, we're going to give you permission to have lived like no one else. So that somehow makingund

what was $175,000 a year, you amassed 550,000. Now, let's do something smart with it. >> Now, if you said 5 million, I probably would have laughed, but I won't laugh at half a million. Noah, >> that's not the laugh level. The laugh level has seven figures, >> but you can afford it, Noah. So, do it.

Enjoy. Y'all worked hard. You've done it. You've done You've done a great job.

>> Saul's in Boston. Hey, Saul. What's up?

>> Hi there. I'm very good. I'm so excited to be in the phone with you guys.

>> You, too. What's up?

>> Oh, by the way, what are you thankful for?

>> Oh, um, I'm thankful for my friends. Um,

yeah, definitely. I have a great group of friends that I'm super thankful for.

>> I love that. >> Very good. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um, my husband is 25.

I'm 26 years old. No children. Our household income is $110,000 a year. We

are currently living on my income and saving his income, which is $4,000 a month. Uh next year, we're planning to start a long journey of savings to buy our first home cash. Um we made our

minds that we don't want to owe a penny to anyone ever. And our goal is to save

$500,000.

We live in Massachusetts, so the real estate here is very expensive. Um, we

concluded that we will achieve that in a max of seven years as long as I leave my current job. I have a master's degree and I'm currently working with a career coach to get a higher salary.

Additionally, while saving for the house, we're thinking of maxing out both of our Roth IAS every year so that we

don't fall behind in our retirement goals and then save more aggressively afterwards. But the reason why I'm calling is um one of the biggest arguments in this journey is a house that is worth 500,000 now could very much be worth like 900,000 in seven years. So I just would love to hear your expertise and perspective on that. Um and do you have any recommendations on how to invest those savings so that they can grow between now and then?

>> Okay. Um,

well, the savings, if you're going to leave it alone 3 years or more, we would move a bunch of it towards something like an index fund into a good mutual fund like an S&P 500 >> so that it's growing a lot faster than a high yield savings account. But if it's three years or under, I'm going to and a portion of it either way, I'm going to leave in high yield savings so that you're earning some. But really, the interest rate or the return on your money is not going to get you the house.

It's your savings rate, the amount you put in that gets you the house. So, if you make 3% or you make 10%, it's not going to be that big a difference on in a short period of time like 3 to 5 years before you get a house.

>> The second thing is that life never works on a straight line. And what

you've done is you have taken the current life that you have the snapshot of today freeze frame

and you projected that out and life doesn't work that way.

>> Okay. >> 100% of the time 5 years from today your

income is going to be different than it is today. >> Usually it's going to be more.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And we don't know what exactly, but typically on a career track like you guys are on at your age, your career, your income is going to hockey stick.

It's going to go on a curve upward.

>> And that's going to impact the five to sevenyear and probably turn it into a three to a fouryear and that changes the discussion on how much houses will have gone up in value. Um,

>> I don't borrow money for anything ever.

>> So, it doesn't matter to me what they go up. I simply cannot buy until I have the

money. >> Now, we one thing on this show that we there's only one thing on this show that we that I don't do personally that I tell other people they can do, and that's take out a small mortgage on a 15-year fixed and pay it off as soon as possible. I won't do that. But I don't

yell at you for that one thing.

>> I don't borrow on anything else and I will yell at you for borrowing on other things because it's dumb.

>> Definitely. >> Okay. But if you if you saved up half of this money and you bought in two years,

that would truncate even more of the

uh weight and the increase in value during that time. >> Going up. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think it's a good plan. Soul, but I would be Yes. Yes, I would still be investing 15% even if that's more than maxing out the Roths during this plan. I would be saving in retirement.

>> Yeah, I think you got too long. If you're going to be more than 3 years, you need to be maxing you need to be putting your 15% baby step four aside.

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Vince in North Dakota. I have followed your principles for years and do not believe in debt personally or in business. My career has been doing HVAC and plumbing for an employer who has always pushed financing. I recently opened my own business and I don't want to add to the slavery of debt, but I also don't want to lose out on jobs because I refuse to play that game. We

charge a fair rate, but I know that I'm running that I'm running the numbers myself and I see how expensive it is to grow a real business. How do I compete in this industry without resorting to pushing debt on my customers?

>> There's plenty of heat and air guys that run huge businesses without being pushing debt. Uh some of them just to

let their, you know, the financing the customer get their own financing. A lot of people put it on a credit card or they run over at the bank and borrow the money, but the the heat and air company doesn't have to furnish the financing to be successful. Um, you know, now if

you're going to work a, you know, a lowerend market, you're probably going to struggle because the people you're competing against there are probably signing up the thing. And you know, for instance, on the car lot, okay, the car dealers today on new cars make more

money profit per car on the financing

package than they do on the sale of the car.

And that could be true of some heat and air companies that are uh pushing

financing hard that they're selling the paper. >> Mhm. >> And or or they're getting paid a kick from the finance company for pushing the paper and they're making as much on that as they are on the actual heat and air unit. But that's not normal in the industry.

You know, your father-in-law is in the heat and air business. >> Yeah. >> And your brother-in-law with him. and they don't they don't push financing and they make a really good living.

>> Mhm. >> And we know a bunch of other people in the business over the years. And so, but I do know some people that are quote more retail and um you can kind of tell by their advertising when you hear their ads or you see their ads, you you kind of can tell, oh, they're going to want me to finance this because they're going to charge a lot, you know. And so, um you know, I think you provide a fair rate.

Some customers are going to finance and I wouldn't not do business with them because they chose to go pay for it the way they wanted to pay for it. That's not your that's not your obligation. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But in terms of, you know, you're in the heat and air business.

>> As long as you stay there, you're going to be okay. >> I know that the product you you're selling is expensive, Vince. I mean, like, that's one of the biggest expenses. So, you can't be shocked if people don't have the cash cuz 40% of Americans can't even cover a $400 emergency. So, you are in an industry that's expensive. So, it's um yeah, you

shouldn't be shocked if they a lot of people use it. You know, you >> I think the difference is where you get the icky factor in the heat and air world is where they think they're in the banking business where they're pedling it hard. And your old employer was one of those. >> Yeah.

>> That's where you get that's where you get the ick factor. Okay. So, if it's somewhere around your business or in your business. So, for instance, I talked to a guy the other day.

He's in the he owns two pizza uh locations.

makes pizzas restaurants. And he said, "Am I doing something wrong by taking credit cards for the pizza?" And I'm like, "Good Lord, no." You know, you're it's not. Now, would Dave Ram would Ramsey Solutions be doing something wrong to take credit cards? Yeah, cuz we're telling people actively like our brand is telling people not to have a credit card.

Okay. So, if you came into our bookstore and used a credit card and we let you do that, that would be hypocritical on our part because it's straight up unethical based on our advice. It's hypocritical. But now, when you're in the pizza business, I'm in the get out of debt business.

I'm not the pizza. You're in the pizza business. If you take credit cards at your pizza restaurant, it's the same machine use a debit card on. >> And so, either way, you're going to be paying your merchant fees on both of them.

>> It lowers your profits. And um >> it'd be weird if you were a diet company but then you were selling ice cream as they're walking out the door. That feels hypocritical, right? I mean like you know so I mean it's but that's not your industry.

So yeah. >> Yeah. I mean if if you have a a health food store and you know but you sell Snickers, you know, I mean that's a problem, you know? I mean but that's the thing you're looking for on the ethics side of things.

So, I I would have it available or or have a lo, you know, hey, the bank this u this credit union over here finances for some people and you can call George over there and Henry over there, they'll do it. You know, I'd have that available if I were you, but I wouldn't be pedalling it. That's the difference. >> You know, I'd say this is how some people do it.

They put it on a credit card. Some people do this. Some people I fix it and just get it to where it limps along so they can save up the money and then I come back next year and put in the new unit. Um, and sometimes we do that with people and th those people are going to remember you as the person who helped them with their heating and air, not who got them into debt.

that's, you know, you're fine. I think, you know, just just remember what business you're in. That's what screws up. I mean, like Victoria's Secret forgot they were in the small underwear business.

>> What? >> You know, they make more money on their credit card lines than they do on the small underwear. Okay. And so the girls that work in Victoria's Secret, if you don't sell a certain number of credit cards per shift, regardless of how much small underwear you sell, you don't get to keep your job >> because they got in the credit.

>> It used to be like that. I don't know how it is now. >> Well, I mean, >> but that used to be a big that was a big deal. >> Yes, I remember.

>> And so there's all these companies that got confused. Sears got in that business and then they went bankrupt. >> Yeah. >> Pennies got in that business and then they went bankrupt.

And so you just see this stuff. they get confused about what business they're in. Be in the business you're in and if there's financing around it, so what? Unless you're teaching people like we are not to go into debt and then that would be the, you know, the diet place selling ice cream as Rachel said.

That's true. All right. Up next is going to be Dave in San Antonio.

>> Hey, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, uh, I am currently living in South Texas. Um, we, my family and I, I have a wife, three, two, well, I was two, now three kids, um, looking after my nephew.

Uh, we would like to move to Nashville.

Um, and I want to do that as soon as financially feasible. Uh, I have two jobs at the moment. Uh, I was active duty Marine Corps for 14 years. I still do that as a reservist that, uh, Do you want net or gross figures typically a month? >> Uh, gross. gross. Uh the military is

grossing me about where'd it go? Um

sorry, I'll get back to you in a second. It's I don't know five grand or so. And then uh I also fly for an airline which

would make it very convenient for me to be your neighbor in Franklin. Uh that's

grossing me about um just under 21 a month. Uh oh, I'm

sorry. There it is. Marine or military about 4,400 and uh airline about 21,000.

Um >> Okay. So why why do you need to why do you need what are you waiting on to move if you want to move?

>> Well, unfortunately the military thing that I do down in South Texas um is very

convenient because I I do >> Oh, I thought it was military retirement. I'm sorry. Okay. So, >> no no >> it's actually it's like actually a side hustle. >> Okay. So, you go from $25,000 to $21,000

income if you moved without the military thing. >> Uh, yeah, roughly. Um, but it also makes

the 20-year retirement uh for the military a lot harder to get. Um, because, you know, I a full schedule for me flying for the airline is working about 12 days a month, which is great. I have great flexibility. I can pick up extra. Uh, I also have to fly on base

uh about five days a month. Um, now that's easy. Take the kids to school, go fly on base, and then I'm done by like two. So, that part's simple. If I were in Nashville, that's two legs on a plane. >> So, why would you want to move to Nashville?

>> Uh, variety. We can't South Texas uh is not a place we want to be for the next 30 years. Um, we're in early 40s and we'd

like to >> How much longer do you have to do the military gig?

>> Two and a half years. >> We'll do that and then move.

>> That's kind of what we're thinking. Uh, and a bigger question that and I I've heard you have different had opinions on as far as building or buying up in the

Tennessee. >> I'd probably just buy. You got enough going on without getting in the building business. Building a house is a lot of work for the consumer.

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or on Google Play. It's the eve of Thanksgiving. What are you thankful for, Jenny in Savannah?

>> Yes. Hi. Um, yay. So excited to connect

with y'all. Um, you are thankful for thankful. Yes. very thankful for my family, my two daughters, and my health.

>> Cool. Good for you. >> More. But >> how can we help? >> Uh, okay. So, I am 54 years old. I have

$75,000 in legal fees. Um, about 12

12,000 in credit card debt. I have two car payments that total about 28,000.

Um, I make 86 about $86,000 a year. Um,

I'm paying rent for uh $2,300 a month.

Um, the reason why I'm in such horrible financial um is because I went through a divorce in 2016 and um my ex-husband is

an attorney and so like every time I wanted to try to get child support I had to go back to court. So um this has been going on for 10 years. Um so my question is >> how old are the kids now?

>> Sure. Okay. So I have um one's a senior in high school and then the other one's a junior in high school. Um, so my question is, um, I have them on scholarships at a private school, um, I have a 90-year-old father who has, you

know, asked us to move back in with him,

um, to help me, you know, pay off all my debt, but that would put my kids about 30 minutes away from their school. And it's kind of a rur it's very rural town where he lives. And um so I'm wondering,

you know, should I stick it out for another year for until, you know, my younger one finishes high school and then move in? Um or should I just try to

move in now just because it's my my rent is really high. It's $2,300 a month.

>> Yeah. For Savannah, Georgia, that's really high. Um >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, okay. So you're kind of looking at your

numbers, it's you you don't have a lot of margin, so you're kind of spinning your wheels right now, making huge progress because of all these different you high rent, you've got all these debts looming over you. Um and so forth.

Uh what are the boys plans as they come out of school?

>> Yeah. Two two daughters and they >> I'm sorry. I don't know why I thought they were sons. I apologize. >> No, that's okay. No, so um Okay. So, I have my oldest daughter just got into um G. Well, she wants to go to Northwestern. She applied early decision for Northwestern, but she got into University of Georgia and the honors program, so she would qualify for the Zela Miller scholarship and the Hope Scholarship would be practically free.

Um the younger one, you know, they both definitely are set on college, but the instate tuition for Georgia is absolutely amazing. Um, but my

ex-husband is um he lives in Chicago and

he's um you know just kind of kind of a

bug in their ear and um I'm I'm going to be responsible for half of their tuition. >> No, we're not going to Northwestern. You don't have the money to send a kid to Northwestern.

>> Sorry. >> Yeah, I agree. I've been trying to talk her out of >> I don't have to talk her out of it. The answer is no.

>> I'm a broke single mom. If your freaking

father wants to pay for this, we'll talk about it.

>> But he ain't paying for nothing.

>> No, he >> So you're going to Georgia, kid.

>> Now, you can couch that a little nicer if you want, but that's the bottom line message. >> Go dogs. >> Uhhuh. >> They're playing football.

I mean, it's life as >> a fan, but that's what I want for her, >> which hurts my heart a little, but >> Yeah. I mean, instate tuition. I mean, I'll never forget Rachel having two people come off the stage and they were $200,000, both of them in debt, getting married and saying they wanted to be missionaries at Northwestern. You were >> Oh, not the It's not the well-known Northwestern.

It was one outside of Minneapolis. >> Oh, excuse me. Okay. I I just said Northwestern.

>> But it was They both come off the stage making 200 grand getting married. They got 400 grand in debt in sociology and they want to be missionaries.

She can't afford it. Her mother's broke.

>> She says that she Well, she says, "I don't care. I'll take out all all the movie that you care. I am not I am not participating in this. I'm your mother.

This is your destruction." >> No, this is stupid.

>> Mhm. I 1,000% agree.

>> It's 100% stupid.

>> Not even 99. It's 100% stupid.

>> Okay. So, should Jenny move back home?

>> Yeah. No. Well, I mean I you know whether you move now or when do you want to start making progress and um >> well I'm up every night about like just sweating over all the the debt I have >> and um you know I've been working three jobs. I'm sure >> what are the car loans, Jenny?

Who's are they? You said we had two different ones. >> Yeah. So those are two those are both ours.

Like we have three drivers and we had one car and then I was whatever you said earlier about the the car lane. I went in there with $5,000 and somehow got sucked into financing it.

have two Yeah, we have two cars.

>> What are What are the two car loans?

Break them down. >> Um there's an $18,000 for a Hyundai

Kona, which is probably worth way less than that. And then there's a um there's about a let's see, I think it's about $10,000 for a Hyundai Santa Fe that's

got 125,000 miles on it.

>> Mhm. And that's that's that's that's the one you got now. >> Is one of them the is one of them the girls? >> Yeah. The the second one is the girls.

>> Is dad helping at all? >> No. >> No. I don't get any child support. I don't get anything. He got the marital home. Um he's an attorney, so he really he really knew what he was doing. Um by he would just file frivolous >> law. So here here's the thing. Okay.

Yeah. >> It scares me that you did a bad car deal >> for your daughter. that you're gonna do a bad college deal for your daughter.

>> So, please remember the car deal when

you couldn't look at her and say no.

>> Right. >> This time you've got to say no. You're going to bankrupt your kid.

>> She's going to spend the next 15 years of her life pissed off at you because you don't stand your ground and not let her go to a college she cannot afford.

>> And Georgia is a great school. >> Georgia is fabulous. >> Oh, it's great. and Georgia Tech, too, because she's applied to there as well.

>> These are both these are both worldclass academic institutions. I don't care if they're instate tuition or not. They really are. They're incredible.

>> I would hire her I would hire her to work at Ramsey in a heartbeat.

>> More graduating from there debtfree than

graduating from Northwestern with 200,000 cuz she's stupid.

>> I don't want to hire that. >> Agree. >> Okay. As an employer, I'm serious. We look at somebody, >> she's not stupid. She's making stupid decisions. That's just dumb. Okay, don't

do it. >> I don't I don't want to I don't want to leave this call unclear. Okay, so now

then this Yeah, if you want to go ahead and move the dad, the deal is you just got to drive 30 minutes. Is that right?

>> Um yeah, it'll be 30 minutes. And so they'll be sad that they're not near like I'm like, "Yeah, but it's saving me

$2,300 um a month." And he's getting

older and he really is like >> you could probably help him. I mean, 90 years old. >> For sure. >> Yeah.

>> I um >> I I'm sorry that these children have hard times that they have to go to an instate school and drive 30 minutes to school, but their mother is a single mom who's deeply in debt because of a nasty divorce. >> And such is life.

>> Yeah. >> They will survive these 1% problems.

>> Exactly. >> Seriously. >> Okay. And Jenny, it's probably a level of guilt on your end as a mom.

>> Yes. >> Because of the divorce and everything that you're trying to provide >> a great life for them, right? Your motivation is totally understandable.

Totally understandable. But you can't let the guilt override really bad financial decisions. And when emotions get caught up, that's what we find. When people are fearful, >> guilt, shame, all of it, >> they end up making bad financial decisions. So don't let a level of mom guilt of what they've gone through with the divorce continue. What what you think in the moment is a good decision for them cuz it makes them happy ends up being a bad decision long term for them.

And so and for you >> how far do you drive to work?

>> Um it's about 20 minutes. Yeah.

>> 25 minutes. >> Yeah. >> Well, it's the same like 30 minutes.

Yeah. Like you drive that far to work, they can drive that far to school.

Seriously, you're going to have to do some smart things for your family, honey. Even if it's short term, it creates a little drama or pain. I love you. I appreciate you. You're stronger than you think you are. Hold the ground, girl.

Our scripture of the day is Proverbs 19:21. Many plans are in a man's heart,

but the council of the Lord will stand.

Thomas Edison said, "Just because something doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless." There's interesting. Okay, so let's go

back for a second. Um Rachel, when we were doing the documentary several years ago called Borrowed Future, which by the way, you can still watch. It's award-winning on YouTube.

It's free and it's fabulous. on the

student loan crisis.

And one of the things that you said when

we were putting all of that together, you and I were taking one of those calls on the air >> was that we don't have a student loan crisis, we have a parenting crisis.

You remember that? >> Yes. We'd say that in live events.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, it's >> And we always kind of You have 3,000 people in the audience, they kind of go, "Ooh, when you say that, right? It's like a slap. >> Well, it is because I think there is a

level of wisdom as parents that there's certain things you see that are going to harm your kids. And when they're 18,

their frontal part of their brain isn't

even formed of how to make cause and effect decisions, right? And so, you have to be able to step in on really big things in your kids' lives to be able to speak the truth. And I think sometimes you draw a line in the sand and it's black and white and it feels harsh at times and what you have to realize is

you are loving your kids even when it's

a hard decision and even when there's emotion and they may get mad. They may get frustrated. But what you have to remember is they're 18. They don't understand.

They don't understand the life that you have lived. They don't understand what they're about to do is about to put them financially in a hardship for years and years and years where a lot of people regret it. So many people that come out with high student loan debt and they're just, you know, got their MBA and they're just trying to find a job and they look back and they realize, oh my gosh, I don't even know if the ROI was right on this. Right?

private university that you could literally get a four you could pay a fourth of what you got for the exact same degree somewhere else.

>> An eighth. >> Yeah. So it's just it's an it's a conversation about not only the future of them but also just make smart financial decisions now the ROI on what it is. And so, um, yeah, college is one

of those >> you can choose as a parent to, um, build

your influence throughout your child's life so that you can persuasively lead

them away from a college choice that causes student loan debt, >> let alone you participating by a parent.

>> And if that won't where and then you don't participate, you don't borrow money. borrowing money is off the table

and we're going to go to a school we can pay cash for and we're going to go to a school that gives us a return on investment for the education.

Okay? In other words, is the extra cost

worth it in the sense that you make more or have a higher probability of success due to that? That's the return on investment. It's not. I've always dreamed and my daddy wanted me to and it's a pretty town and oh my god, the

stupid stuff I have heard here on the air on college choice. The number one

reason for student loan debt is choosing

to go to a school that you can't afford.

It's not choosing an education.

It's choosing a school that you can't afford. So, we just had this example.

This young lady is an honor student. She can go to Georgia, the University of Georgia, fabulous Southeast School, business school is strong. She can go there a and go for free with the Georgia

scholarships that are available. And with the fact that she's stinking honor student and walking in there, they're going to, you know, and she can go virtually free to uh, you know, one of

the top schools in the nation

or she can go to a name brand school that's more expensive. this. Yay.

Okay. Now, let me tell you how what the data says. There's zero

credible research that says where you

went to school causes your success.

Zero.

None. None.

You cannot find any data that says

Vanderbilt and Harvard over Georgia,

Northwestern over Georgia causes success. No data. There's no one has ever been able to do find a credible study on that. It doesn't exist. It's

bull crap in the marketing and in the aristocratic sticking my nose in the air so my upper lip gets sunburned about where my stinking kid goes to college.

>> It's a it's the parents ego. A lot of it >> parents ego and it's the ego of the individual going saying I went there.

But the actual data says 78% of the

Fortune 500 presidents on the publicly traded big board went to state schools.

Eight out of 10. State schools.

So there's actually data that says going to a state school has a higher probability of leading a Fortune 500 company than going to a mucky muk with a

name. >> So the biggest the biggest push back I'm hearing now is it's the people that you get to meet. I've heard that my whole life. >> And so far, so far those people have not caused anyone to be successful. We can't find any research that says that success comes from grit, perseverance, character, integrity, and knowledge base, not hobnobbing with a bunch of

snobs.

That is book. My fraternity brothers caused me to be successful. Horse crap.

It didn't happen ever on this century.

Ever once. Never. But these people all

act like this because they have to rationalize these stupid dollars they paid for this. So Vanderbilt right now is $80,000 a year to go to school.

University of Tennessee is $12,000 a year to go to school. I went to the University of Tennessee and people that went to Vanderbilt work for me.

Now figure that one out.

This is just this is the way the life works out here, boys and girls. So in ter in other words I got enough knowledge base at the co wonderful Hasslam school of business at the University of Tennessee. I got enough knowledge base to build a $300 million company and my character and my grit and

God's blessings and the stuff we've all been through to get here. Okay.

>> And to be honest the education you got

was probably a fraction of you actually succeeding. It is the perseverance. It is the hard work. It's the never give up.

You know what I mean?

problem from. And as parents, you need to speak into this and not participate in all this mythology. Love your children enough to give them a big nope.

Nope.

Nope. You're not doing that. If you do that, you're not taking this car that's got my name on it. If you do that, you're not taking a dime of my money.

You are on your own. If you're going to go live in the land of stupid, I'm going to wave at you from over here. I love you and I'll watch you wreck your life, but I will not help you wreck your life.

and I will do everything I can to talk you out of it and to stand in your way.

My child tells me where they're going to school. My kid didn't tell me nothing with my money. I told them stuff. And

Rachel can attest to that. We had discussions and we talked persuasively and I talked adult to adult until they weren't acting like an adult. And then I just told them what we're doing. And that that oh that's you can't do. Yeah.

By God you can do that. Tell your counselor when you're 30, but you're not going to be in student loan debt cuz your dad's a butthole. Great. That's fine. But you're not going to be in student loan debt. >> Therapist cuz you don't have loans. >> Well, I mean, that's it. You can afford one because you don't have student loan debt.

>> But, you know, this is >> No, but and again, >> it's out of control, you guys. >> Yes. And again, this is on the borrowing side. If you have $5 million, you want to send your kids somewhere, that's fine. That >> But don't do it on the basis of it's going to cause them to be successful. >> Oh, totally. Oh, 100%. 100%.

>> That's mythology. >> Yes. 100%. It's absolute mythology. The

reason I'm successful is I went to MIT.

Said no one ever.

Really? Seriously.

Well, possible exception of Trump, but anyway. There you go.

>> That was fun. That was a fun little rant. >> Good. So, we need that out of my system. Well, happy Thanksgiving everyone. >> Everyone was worried about you. You're in good health, good spirits. You've seen it here. >> Everything's good. >> Thanksgiving. >> That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. will be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 172. The Most Loving Thing You Can Do Is Be Honest About Money | May 27, 2025


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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Jade Wshaw Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Open phones

at88255225.

That's88255225. We're glad you guys are with us. We're here to help you. Jade is a Ramsey personality and bestselling author of the book Money's Not a Math Problem. It's one of our Ramsey quick reads, which means it is 74 pages long.

Is that right? Yeah. Look at that. Pretty close. That's pretty good. 70 close. It is 74 pages long. Look at that. My memory is impeccable. Steel trap. That's it. That's it. Hey, thanks for being with us, guys. We're glad we can serve you. We want you to be here and gosh, help you move to the next level in whatever you're doing. All right. Rochelle is in Houston, Texas.

Hi, Rochelle. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi, Dave. Hi, Jay. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Um, I just wanted to get Dave's input on a situation. Um, so my husband and I, we

have four kids. We're a blended family.

Uh, I have a daughter, he has a son, and then we have two boys together.

um his father died and he inherited some

land from him. It's family land and so

when we are talking about inheritance for our children, he wants and understandably so the land to go to be split between the three boys because he wants to keep it in his bloodline. Um and so I am fine with that. But where we disagree is on how to do inheritance for

my daughter. um he thinks the land should be not even taken into consideration when we do inheritance. So monetary value etc shouldn't matter. Um

and so what we're kind of looking at is actually selling our current home and then using the money that we make to move to that land and then build on it.

Um in which case we would live out the rest of our days there and put our money into it. And I think that that also should be taken into consideration, but he thinks that the boys should get the land split between them and then whatever else inheritance we have left should be split equally between all four kids. And so I just kind of wanted your opinion on that.

Wow. Does it occur to him how hurtful it is when he says that? I don't think so.

If you said that's hurtful, you're a butt.

I haven't said that. Uh, I try to talk very nicely to him. I know, but that's what my wife would have said. I'm just thinking. And it is, it's very sentimental to him. Um, his, you know, his dad. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And Cinderella has to go. The stepchild has to go and mop the floors while the three other ones go to the ball.

I lost you. Fine. Are you there? Yeah.

You cut out. I don't know what happened to your phone. That's okay. Sorry. Then like I said, I don't mind them getting the land. That's totally fine. It's How much land is involved? Um, it's only about 33 acres right now. Um, it was his

grandmother's land. She sold it and then his dad bought back this portion and was

and wanting of it surrounding it. And so

my husband wants to buy back the remainder as well if we can. The remainder is how much on top of the 33.

I don't know how much more there is that he would want to buy. What is your what is your personal income and what is his income? Um we he makes about 65 and I

make about 55 right now.

But we both increase pretty regularly every year. How old are you guys? Uh 36.

Okay. All right. Um well, I don't know

that our opinion really matters here. Uh

cuz Bubba's made his mind up. Yeah. Um,

so I I just kind of wanted to know I I

you know, no, I I I think that you know, probably what you've got is a situation where you need to sit down with your pastor, marriage counselor, or somebody like that, um I I just uh

uh it it it is it is it is a thing to

require some thought, but after just listening to you, so here here's what I've got. Okay, you make half the money in the house approximately. You guys are going to be married and living there probably 40 years. So more than uh 3/4

of your life, his life is going to be

spent doing things together here. Um and

um and including your daughter. Um and

so I'm just calling BS.

I I think that I think these four kids should be treated equally because your

connection to it because you're wanting

to he's wanting to you to use your income and help him buy a house on land

he doesn't want to leave to your your daughter after 40 years. How old is your

How old are the kids? Uh my daughter's 14, my stepson's 13, and then our twins are two. Yeah. Oh, what a wedge. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I and that that's thing one. Thing two is um

people and relationships trump

stuff. This kid is more important than this piece of land. And he's her daddy

now. And she lives she lives with y'all, right? Yes, she does currently. Yes.

Yeah. you know, his relationship to her

is more important than 33 freaking acres

in Texas.

Okay. I just I I just don't um you know,

I I I would give him about a 20% part of

the right answer here and and about 80% wrong. So, he loses.

I feel like I feel like a different scenario would be you guys were 55 years

old. it was your second marriage and the

kids are grown. That feels different.

Like that's a completely different situation with saying, "Hey, but you're contributing, you know, the vast majority. You're contributing half with the sale of the house and the building of the house and your income for 40 years from age 35 to age 65 to age 75,

right? You're contributing half all the way through there. And so how your daughter doesn't get into that half is ridiculous.

Okay, from a math standpoint, from a

philosophical or spiritual standpoint, it's just a stupid piece of dirt. I

don't really care where it came from. I mean, I've got some dirt that I own that I really love. And I'd like to see my kids and grandkids playing on it for my great grandkids, my great great grandkids when I'm looking at them from heaven. I'd love to see them playing on that and enjoying that dirt. But I don't want it to form their life and I don't want them to value that dirt over relationships. Yeah. Yes. Yes, sir.

Yeah. I just I I I So I don't buy off on the sentimental crap. You know, if you I got uh um you know h some hand tools

from my dad. Okay, that's sentimental.

Okay, they're ancient antique hand tools, right? And so those are sentimental. But uh but I'm certainly not going to let a wrench and a hammer stand between me and a kid that

I'm raising.

I just you know that that's how I put this that's the bucket I put this in. I agree. I agree wholeheartedly. So if the if the step kid wants the hammer, it's okay. That's fine. You know, give the other one the wrench. It's just stuff.

Yeah. And I just I I don't want to So I

got I got to I don't think he's thinking this through. I don't think he's a butt.

He's act but but but uh it was kind of fun to say that. But I kind of do. Yeah.

In this moment. Yeah. I don't I don't

think he's a hurtful person. Mhm. Like

Sure. Sure. You know, I think that's what he's doing. Okay. He's not thought of it from all angles, but I I just don't think he's thinking through the message he's sending to this teenage girl. And I I don't like that message.

Javier is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Javier. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so overarching question is that my

mom took out a bunch of loans in my name. She's making minimum payments, but I'm trying to kind of get this whole thing sorted out and out of my name. How would you suggest that I approach her and the situation as a whole? How old are you?

I'm 27. When did all this happen, hun?

Um, it started back in 2022. I want to

say 21, 22. It was after my divorce. So, I was kind of just throwing caution to the wind and just saying yes to everything. Oh, so you agreed to her doing this? Yes. The

It all started because the landlord wanted to sell the house that she that I grew up in, that she's currently living in, and she offered us a pretty good deal. and my brother and I, we bought the house together for my mom. And now

she's struggling to make the payments.

And I'm just waiting for the day that I get a call that, "Hey, your payment's due." And my wife and I, we can't afford the payment ourselves. So, I just don't know what to do.

Wow.

You bought the house together for your mom and then she took out credit card loans in your name, all with your permission.

Yes, sir. So, whose name Who whose name is on the mortgage? Yours. Mhm. Yes, sir. And she's living in And but she's living in the house. Yes. Rentree. And the house the the the property is titled

to you as well. Correct. Correct. She's

paying the mortgage. Mhm. It's just that her credit was too poor to actually take the loan out herself. So, going back to the the other debt, the other loan, how how much money are we talking about on the credit cards?

um shy of 20,000.

And what what does your mom make a year?

Um she's self-employed. She won't really give me a straight answer. Mhm. If you had to guess, what what would you what would you say? Not much. She doesn't work much. She sucks blood off of her sons. Okay. Um she's a parasite. It's a

horrible thing to say about your mother. I'm so sorry. Uh just an observation.

What's your living situation?

I am currently living in an apartment in Utah and the house is in another state.

Yeah. All right. And your wife is not happy with this situation. I would assume she is not and I'm not either.

Okay. All right. Okay.

Um and how old is mom? 55.

Ballpark. Yeah. Okay. So, um and what is

the house worth that she's living in?

Uh, I would say 350 to 4. Mhm. And what

do you owe on it? I want to say 220,

250. I don't honestly know. Yeah. Is your brother also on the mortgage?

Yes, my brother's on the mortgage as well. And on the deed as well. Yeah.

Okay. So, if you guys What's your brother saying about all this?

My brother wants to keep the house and he's just happy to go along because he wants to keep it for sentimental value.

I personally agree with your team, but it's just a house. We can get another one. Yeah. So, um, what would I do if I

woke up in your shoes? This is going to be what is called a difficult conversation, my friend. Your mom has gotten away with this misbehavior,

underproducing and um uh

unbelievable asks of her grown sons

rather than taking care of herself. A 55year-old woman ought to be able to build a sustainable life without sucking the blood off of her children, okay? Or man for that

matter. Okay? So this is not positive.

Your mom is not in a good situation mentally and spiritually. Um because

otherwise she wouldn't have done this to her own kids. And of course you all aren't cuz you allowed it to happen. Oh no. You straight up endorsed it. So what what I would do if I woke up in your shoes is I would go How long ago did you get married?

Uh my wife and I we got married in a

month ago. Okay. This is going to this is going to come down on your wife if you're not real careful from your mother. Your mother's going to blame her because she's the new thing on the scene.

And about that time, you evict your mom. So, she's going to end up blaming your wife if you're not real careful. So, your wife does not need to be anywhere near this conversation. Nor do you quote her, nor do you even bring her up.

She's not physically in the room. She's nowhere around cuz it's not her fault. Okay? So, you need to travel with your brother and sit down with your mom and say, "Guys, I can't do this anymore.

I'm looking at the future, 10 year, 10 years into the future, and all I see is pain and trouble. There's a problem here. You're not You're ruining my credit. Uh, you're going to I'm waiting for the phone call when you don't pay the mortgage, and uh so what we're going to do is we're going to sell the house.

all the debt off." And um and we're

going to pay the taxes associated with selling the house if there are any. There shouldn't. No, there will be cuz it's not a personal residence. You may have some t capital gains on this. So you pay your taxes and then you say, "As for my half of what is left over equity,

mom, I'm going to give that to you as a parting gift." And you can go set yourself up a

life with that. And I'm not going to do anything anymore in the future. That's

it, brother. You can do with your half whatever you choose to do. If you want to help mom get a house with that, that's fine. I'm done. We're selling the house. We're paying off the credit cards, and I'll give you my half of what's left over after that after taxes.

Do you anticipate your brother holding up that process

or do you think that he'll go along with it? I think he would hold it up because he's not big on Ramsay. I found you guys cuz I found your book uh breaking free from broke. Well, I mean, forget about the Ramsay part. Just the idea of you cleaning this up because it's very messy. It to do with Ramsay. It's got to do with your mother screwing her own kids over.

Yeah. I honestly think he would not go along with it cuz he's seeing it as an investment on his then he can buy you out. He can buy you out. That's another option. But honey, we're selling the house. If he doesn't want to sell the house, then it's going to be a civil court action and the judge is going to demand that the partnership be dissolved by the selling of the house. We're selling the house. I'm not asking. We're telling you. This is what we're doing.

If you want to buy me out, that's okay.

The way you need to think of this is this is saving your marriage, by the way. Yeah. Because your wife is not going to sit around and let your mom be the reason that she's not in her new house. You guys are in an apartment.

You've been married for a month. If this messes around and causes you guys the f

the future that she's envisioned, you're going to have a much bigger problem on your hands. Yeah. Mom, I love you and I've done more for you than I should have and I put myself and my future family in jeopardy because of you and

you continue to misbehave with this. My bills are not being paid. You're destroying my credit and my future.

We're selling the house. Little brother, if you don't want to sell it, you can buy me out. You got 10 minutes. Ready, set, go. You're on the clock, okay?

Because your little brother's codependent like you were until something woke you up. And again, this has got nothing to do with Ramsay. Don't you blame it on your ex. Don't you blame it on your new wife and don't you blame it on Ramsay.

It's not Ramsay. This is you stood up.

I'm a 27y old freaking man with a backbone. And this is madness. And the madness ends. It's not a sign of love to

continue in codependency. This is not an act of love. There's no love in this discussion. You can be kind, gentle. You don't have to be yelling and screaming, but we are selling the house. You can either do it voluntarily or I'll have a judge make

you sell the house. We are selling the

house. So, y'all get your heads around that. Whatever flopping in the floor and foaming at the mouth you need to do, but get your heads around that. We are selling the house. It's not an option.

The only other option is brother, you buy me out or mom, you'all buy me out.

Get me off the mortgage and pay off all the credit cards. And you got to do that in 90 days. And you got to ready, set, go. And if you're not going to do that, we are selling the house. The best thing for mom, by the way, sell the house. Put some money in her pocket. Tell her to get a freaking job. Self-employed for her is code for I don't work much.

That's what that is. That's code. All right, Dave, you have some strong opinions, possibly. Yeah, I think so. Okay.

Because you really prefer credit unions over big banks. Well, credit unions for one thing are uh nonprofit, which means

that the members, the customers own the

credit union. So any profits that the credit union makes goes back into customer pricing. So you get better interest rate on savings, cheaper checking and so on, that kind of thing.

And and but that's what's more important than that though is the fact that the customer is the owner changes the spirit on the credit union. So I find very few credit unions that aren't very customer ccentric. Well, and I think we have found one that is incredible and that's Fairwinds. They are an incredible credit union that is really out with the heart to help the customer.

They're the right kind of people with the right kind of values and they've done a really really good job with customer service and um the deals that they're offering. The Ramsay tribe is incredible. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that the things that we teach they so line up with.

And you're right, their customer service is unbelievable. Winston and I just signed up and we got an account. Yeah. And I'm not kidding, it took less than 5 minutes.

It was so user friendly. Like the step-by-step approach was unbelievable. And then the next day, my phone rings and it says Fairwinds on my phone. So, I answered it and talked to someone there and they said, "Yeah, they give calls to every new customer." And so, again, they just really care about your experience and I I so so appreciate that.

Plus, anything that you can do at a traditional branch, you can do with them at fairwinds.org or on their app and you'll have free access to over 33,000 ATMs. Hey, you guys know how much I hate banks in general and so for me to do this is a big deal. Talk to our friends at Fairwinds and check out the combined checking and savings bundle that they created just for the Ramsey tribe. You guys, it's incredible.

Yeah, you guys, it's so easy to join Fairwinds no matter where you live.

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8003564282. Dave is with us and Dave is in Orlando. Hi Dave, how are you?

Hi, I'm good Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Hi. So, uh, my wife and I, um, so we are

foster parents and we were taking care of a baby pretty much from a newborn until about 8 months. Um, the mom did

great. She she got her kids back after she went through some struggles. Uh, long story short, um, her case has been

closed. She has all her kids back and she is struggling again. So with pretty much all aspects of life, but uh

financially she made some poor decisions with a car, ended up breaking down and

uh she had to junk it and uh she contacted us just for some help financially. Um we we haven't helped her with money before, but obviously we love, you know, her son very much. We want her to succeed. Um we know that giving her money is not a long-term solution to anything. Um, so we're really just trying to think about the best way to approach her, talk to her about, you know, what's going on, how her finances are, how she can get assistance, build a budget, um, etc.

And, and she's a very, very uh, shy,

closed off type person. So, we don't want to scare her off, but obviously still wanting to help her. We're just looking for the best way to to maybe approach that.

H well I mean all you can do that's

reasonable is to coach her and the only way you can coach her is to the extent she'll accept the coaching. Right.

Right. And um and

I talked to her yesterday and she you

know I I asked her if she would be opening to open to having a financial conversation. You know my my wife and I are in you know good shape. were very stable. And if uh she said she was open

to having that conversation, she said she doesn't really understand debt and just finances in general. And on top of that, I mean, she has three kids now.

She's not working, has a baby who's now a year, and uh her other two kids are nine and 10, and she just has absolutely no idea what to do. um she can't get daycare for her for her baby because in order to get assistance through the state, she has to have two paychecks uh before they'll provide daycare assistance. So, she is just going crazy and we feel like she's close to, you know, getting back to a point where she may make some poor decisions or drugs or

something like that. and and Yeah. Yeah.

Um well, obviously the financial

situation is again the symptom Mhm. of

all the things that have gone on in her life. Okay. And um so but but maybe you

can coach some of the things in her life by using the financial door to go through. Um ha having dealt with this a bunch of

times over the years, the warning I would give you is I I would tell you to be very very clear upfront. Uh because

when you said financial conversation, you meant coaching, she might have heard

money.

You're going to have a conversation about how much money you're going to give me. Yes, I'll be happy to have that conversation. when you when she it's very clear to her that you're not going to give her money cuz you're not

um that then uh because this is a a messed up toxic situation if you start that um then then she may cut you

loose. So you need to be ready for that emotionally.

Okay. And so I I think um you know what

I would offer if I were in this situation with your wife present, I would just say uh in in in person over a

cup of coffee um look, we love the

little boy and that means that we would love to help you and our help to you would be that as a as your older brother and older sister here that are successful in a lot of areas of life that you're not yet, we can show you a better path in a bunch of these areas.

is and um help her get plugged into a good church. They can help her with the daycare get started. Uh let someone do that. But if she starts to see this baby as a ticket to get money out of you, this is going to get really uh ugly fast.

Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And so she did move um two hours away from us when when the case was finally closed. I guess that was about a month ago. Mhm.

And we did at that time give her $200 to

help moving expenses and get a truck to go down there. Um, so I'm hoping that

she doesn't think that that door is already open. And that's what I'm trying to avoid. She does. You're But you're just The trick is can you can you make a trip down there, sit down, be very clear, we love you. We because we love this baby, we want to coach you and help you, but it's going to be we're going to show you how to get on your feet, not we're going to give you money to get on your feet. Mhm. And uh she may give you the middle finger. Um I mean it's a

better than a 50% probability. Yeah.

Based on my experience, but uh but if she she may have been just d it's sad, but sometimes folk in these situation will use a baby as a method of manipulation. Well, that's the thing I would probably caution um against with David, just to be really careful because obviously they love this this little boy. And so there's probably um a part

in them that wants to try to control the situation because in their minds like we have the means like we understand money.

We understand how to take care of this kid. And so I think that they have to really guard their hearts in this situation because like you said, Yeah.

So sad. Yeah. But I think what she's got to have is she's got to have some mentors and some people in her life.

That's why I said plug her into a good church. Let's get her started walking on a character path and let her get cuz

obviously based on what you said, she's been struggling with that and you're afraid she's going to fall back off of that. And when she gets that character thing straightened out, then you can show her the mechanics of the money piece. But um but she's going to have to

go to work and she's got to feed three kids and we're going to have to figure out a way to cause her to be able to do that with some community support. and that community will help her if if she's heading in the right way. And you can probably line that up. Um and if and I think you're a wonderful person for investing into this, but uh but but just be very careful that you're not being um

uh manipulated because that sometimes is the only skill someone has. Um and

they're very skillful in some cases. Not saying that's true about her 100%, but it's just something I would personally be careful with if I was walking into this. I want my eyes wide open. Open phones at8825-55225. Royce is in Dallas, Texas.

Hi Royce, how are you? Good. How are you Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I am a um finance or I guess you

say graduate finance student. I'm getting my NBA, my undergrads in finance. Cool. And so you know how all them are. Yep, I do. They teach you to go out and leverage and so on and so forth. Okay.

The financial situation that I'm in is I'm completely debtree. I have a h 100,000ish something dollars of invested

money in Morgan Stanley and then I have some other stuff through some 401ks. I have $30 or $30,000 in onhand cash and I

have an opportunity to buy a $50,000 house. Would you leverage some part of it the renovations? Would you buy it all cash? Because my whole thought pattern is if I leave that money working and do parts of it, so like finance 25, cash 25

cash on the restoration, it allows some of my work to some of my money to still be working. Yeah. Well, back when you had common sense before you got your MBA, you would have never done that, right?

And so I I agree with you on that partly. Then so my thing is is so do you think that there's ever situations where that would come in? because I know the situation you got in, right? No, I do not I do not borrow money and I do not tell people to borrow money, especially for investment real estate, pay cash forward or don't do it because the risk you increase your risk and what they don't teach you in the MBA program is to

mathematically factor in the risk. They act like with the formulas they teach you, their formulas, the formulas that I learned, same the same ones in getting a finance degree are fairly simplistic in that they do not address the risk issue.

And the more you borrow, the more risk you have. We know that. Okay? And and

nowhere in anything you learned in that MBA program does it increase the does it decrease the returns based on increased

risk because of debt. There's not a formula that they have in that program that shows you that. And yet that is reality. So every time you borrow money, you increase risk. The more money you borrow, the more risk. The less money you borrow, the less risk. And risk does affect return over the scope of time.

And so don't do it. Don't do it. The borrower is slave to the lender. God is smarter than your MBA professor. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why Rei? If you've made student loan mistakes with zeros on the end, well, we're not judging you.

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refy.com/ramsey. Might not be in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Brody in Maryland. He says, "Is it unfair for me to feel angry that my wife wants a bigger house? We bought a,400 ft house last April. I sold all

four of my investment properties that I worked very hard for to completely pay off our debt, including the new house.

Our house is a three-bedroom, two- bath ranch with a backyard on a quiet street, and it's in a good school district. So much sacrifice and saving went into making this happen. Now she wants a bigger house even though she said she wanted this particular house before we put the offer in. I don't see how I can make this happen without going into debt again. And I will not go back into debt.

Oh, this is juicy. I listen I Here's the

thing. I do think that some people's personalities cuz you don't talk about any type of pay raise or situation where you guys' lifestyle has changed drastically. But I do think there's some people that uh the goalpost is

constantly moving, right? It's like if I just get this, I'll be happy and then they get that thing and they're not happy. Or if I just get this, I'll be content and then it happens and they're not content because things don't make you happy and things don't make you content. You know, I think that they're fun, but they don't they don't fill that void.

And yeah, you can buy fun, but you can't buy happiness. Yeah. And you can't buy contentment. No.

kind of go, well, that's them and that's okay. My life is fine. And truly, I think that that's what this is. I think she's got a contentment issue. Exactly.

Sidebar, what what you stated there. I just saw an article the other day that um the more hours you spend on social media, the typical the there's a direct correlation to the more credit card debt you have. Oh, really? I'd love to see that. I know there is. And the more overspending you do because, you know, I I do it and I have the money, but I'm

like looking at some gun thing and I'm like, "Oh, I need one of those." Yeah.

But if I had stayed off of that, I wouldn't have even known it was there.

And you know, but so I know other people do it and I teach this crap. So, you know, I mean, it's like, golly, if I'm doing it, that's it's got to be. So, okay. Yeah. Here's what happened, Brody.

You guys need to reset your marriage

relationship. This is not about a 1400 foot house. And it's not about you being angry.

You are acting like the daddy and she's

acting like daddy's little princess.

You know I can't. And daddy sold everything and did everything and sacrificed and worked his fingers to the bone. And what did he get? Bony fingers.

And he got a house and he's real proud of the house. And now she walks in and goes, "Yeah, but there's the wallpaper." Yeah. And so we need to reset this and instead let's be two like grown-ups. So, the conversation I'm going to have is, and actually we had it at our house, but in a little different way when we were about Charles's age, probably. Um, I'll tell you about ours in a second, but the conversation I'm going to have is, okay, we are going to get aligned on

our goals. Yeah. My goal is not to

perpetually make an unhappy person happy. I am not going to get on that treadmill.

We You're a grown woman. I'm a grown

man. We're going to sit down together.

And here's one of mine. Okay. I don't borrow money. Period. Here's another one of mine. I like to provide nice things for my wife. Here's another one of mine.

These are what you might say, Brody.

Okay. And she's saying, "Well, I want a house as nice as my friends." Okay. What can we do to get that? Mhm. Uh, you don't

work. You could work. You don't work much. You could work more. Uh, you could quit coach bagging

it and we might save that money towards a house. I mean, what are we going to do as two grownup people to

responsibly? Because I I'm all in. I put all my chips in the table. I sold off everything I had to buy this house for us. Mhm. Mhm. And what you did though

was you did that without her. She was not aligned to that decision. She was giving you lip service, but this was not her idea. It was yours. Yeah. I And now

now you're surprised that she's unhappy of your plan. That did not her include her. So this is like I got to tell I you know what I about 10 year I've been married 43 years. About 10 years into marriage. I don't buy Sharon jewelry any

more that she hasn't seen.

Tell us why. Because I picked out ugly crap. I know. Yeah. According to her,

but I spent a lot of my beautiful money on her ugly crap and then she didn't.

She's like, "Oh, well, I wouldn't I wouldn't have that." And I'm like, "Oh, geez. Well, let's just not do that again." So, I don't mind if Sharon has I mean, she's got earrings the size of a headlight, but she picked them out. Mhm.

And then she says, "They're heavy.

They're that big." Okay. And I'm like, "That's ridiculous." And I'm like, "It's a good problem to have." Okay, just get your little earlobes and do some earlobe lifts. Start doing some workouts there in the gym because you picked them out.

So, see, that's the difference. She This girl's not involved in this. Well, yeah.

You could tell by the the the language.

I sold all of my investment properties.

So much sacrifice. Yeah. He's the only one. He feels like he's the only one sacrificing. You can tell by the language whether but it's a paternal thing rather than than a equal thing.

Yeah. Yeah. You can hear it. So I think we got to reset and go we're not going

anywhere from here. Mhm. We're not making any major decisions without both of us involved.

And uh I learned that after I went broke because I made a lot of decisions that were stupid without talking to my wife.

Proverbs 31 says, "Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her." And here's my favorite part. He will have no lack of

gain. And it's not in the Bible, but it might be in one version like Second Hesitations. Yeah. Right after no lack of gain, she no longer says, "I told you so." Oh, I kind of like being able. I like being able to say that though. I know, but you can't say that when you're in on the decision. All you can say is we together made a dumb butt decision.

That's all you can say from this point forward. And that that's it. You can't say you're an idiot. You can't do that anymore because now you have to use plural. It's change your pronouns. We are idiots. We did this. Right. And so that's what's going on here, dude.

You've got to reset uh this idea you

have. Put your little Superman cape up of you're the papa and you're the provider and all this stuff and um she's just a little woman and you're going to you're never going to make Scarlett O'Hara happy. It's not going to happen.

So um she's going to get on the same page and be like a grown woman and stuff and then she'll become happy. Yeah. It's a weird balance of power. It's a big deal, man.

It's a big deal. This alignment in marriage is one of the things we find all the time in people's ability to get out of debt. People's they they succeed in their careers at a greater rate. They uh and their ability to build wealth because they're aligned on sacrificing and they make decisions together.

The first time we did that after going broke was we finally saved up a little bit of money and I had $10,000.

You remember those? Oh, 100% completely ugly. The carpet was covered in toddler goldfish. Uh-huh. From the third kid.

And uh it was nasty. This was a bad car.

It was an embarrassing vehicle. When they first came out, they were all right. Well, this was not first come out. And she's like, I need an I need a better car. We need to move up to a Suburban. And I was going to I had$10,000 or $15,000 saved at the company. I was getting ready to do this investment. we were going to buy this thing and I was going to make a h 100,000 with this 15,000 down here and she's like uh we need to do a

car and you know what we did both but we

did the car first and then we did the company and it turns out now all these years later it was okay but in the moment aligning on that with two grown-ups was a big deal. It's a big

deal. Daniel is in Kansas City. Hey

Daniel, how are you?

I've been better. Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve, sir. What's up in your world? Uh, my wife is about to pass

away and she hid debt from me. Oh my.

That I that I didn't know that she had

pre to our getting married 5 years ago.

Wow. I'm so sorry.

So, what what is her illness?

uh she has cerosis of the liver. Oh man.

And it's not working and she doesn't qualify for a transplant and then it's

starting to affect her other organs and she's kind of going into full shutdown.

So you've been married 5 years? Yes, sir. I'm so sorry. How old is she? She's

44. Oh my goodness. Oo. How old are you?

I'm 52. Okay. Oh, man. Okay. And you you

you opened this with she's hidden debt

from you during the five years that you were married. So, she ran up debt in her name. She ran up debt in her name

pre-tar getting married back when she was in college. Uh this is the second

marriage for both of us. Have a I have

one daughter with her technically a stepdaughter, but I consider her my daughter. Mhm. Mhm. Totally. And uh was

saving money for her to go to college.

And um we were I thought we were anyway

debtree except for our house. So the debt the debt was rung up before you guys married got married. You just didn't know about it. I did not know about it. And how much debt? Uh the her

parents said she ran up $50,000, but

I've only received a bill for $15,000.

And it's on what kind of debt? Uh student loan debt. Federally insured.

Uh I I don't know. I just received it the other day. It's actually from a bill collection agency. Mhm. I I don't have

it in front of me. I apologize. It's okay. Is it only And you might not know this. Is it only in her name or did her parents sign for it too? No, it's only in her name. Okay. Okay. Her parents offered to pay for her to go to school as long as she showed them the grades and evidently she took the money, was in

school for a hot minute. And I didn't know this cuz she's hidden a bunch of stuff from me and uh used the money to go travel.

Okay. And went to Europe and blew the money. All right. Um, well, let's talk through a couple of possibilities. Um, from a tactical standpoint, I'm sorry, Daniel. I know your heart's broken in about three different places. Uh, the deception, the loss, um, the illness, everything that's going on here that's just overwhelming. Um,

and all of that's just a tragedy. I'm so sorry. Student loan debt that is

federally insured is forgiven when someone passes away.

Okay? So, if this is a federal student

loan debt, there's no issue. When she

passes away, you will um or her parents

for that matter can send them uh a copy of the death certificate and the student loan just evaporates. It's that simple.

and don't pay it. Okay, that that's

probably what we're dealing with.

Okay, let's go another route in case

that's not it. Let's pretend this is uh

private student loan debt that she borrowed it from the university rather than through FAFSA and all that, right?

Um that is not I'm sorry. I believe she

did because her parents income was too high for her to get FASA. Well, this is student. It could it could still there's no there's not an income limit on getting a federally insured student loan. Okay. Okay. So, I'm I'm thinking this is a federally insured student loan. If it's not, let's discuss that.

So, the Do you own

anything jointly with her?

Uh, and both of your names on it?

The only thing with both our names on it is one car. Okay. her credit her credit

from her previous marriage was she's had

two bankruptcies that she never told me about cuz I I had money issues in my

first marriage and got that all paid off and I got your book the total money makeover and followed that to get out of

debt and to do there's a mountain mountain of deception here okay um all right let's pretend let's pretend that this is not federally insured I would have you If it's not a federally insured student loan that is forgiven upon death, then I would have you contact an attorney there in Kansas City on probate law in Kansas. In most states, when

someone passes away, what they own stands good for what they

owe, and nothing else does. Just because

you're married to her in most states does not mean you're liable for her debts. that have her name on it. And so

the car is hers, a portion of it. And if

the car has any value above what is

owed, that might be sold and paid towards this debt. But other than that, you don't have anything that is she doesn't own anything. It doesn't sound like.

No, sir. She does not. Okay. So, let's pretend that she were single and she had a car and that was all and she owed more on the car than it was worth and um you

pass away with credit card debt and student loan debt. There's no assets to

pay the debts. Those creditors get

nothing when that person passes away with nothing. Your kids aren't responsible. Your parents aren't responsible. And in most states, your husband is not responsible unless especially in a situation like this where the debt occurred prior to the

marriage. Yeah, absolutely. So, I I'm not an attorney in Kansas. I'm not an attorney, but I'm not attorney in Kansas for sure. So, I'd want you to check that out. You won't have to bother and do that if you can discover that these student loans are federally insured. And I'm giving you a high probability they are. If they're federally insured, it's no issue at all. You got no issue. You're not liable. Period. No one's liable. No one pays anything. If

someone becomes permanently disabled or passes away with a fedally insured student loan, it's forgiven. It's gone.

Okay. So, you're okay other than your broken heart.

Okay. And your broken heart from losing your wife and uh to to liver cerosis.

Cerosis of the liver. And your broken heart from all the deception that's gone on. Yeah. And um both are legitimate

pain, brother. I'm sorry you're facing all this. Yeah. He's got to he's got to get in counseling and and deal with that because he's got a lot going on. He's got the loss, but then it's tough to lose someone that you're angry at or frustrated at for something that's gone on, right? Um and so obviously she had a

pattern of this in her life and and now

it's coming to a tragic Yeah.

conclusion. So tough. Wow. Ouch. Okay,

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Emily is in Washington DC. Hi, Emily.

How are you? Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? Um, we just have a quick question.

My husband and I are wondering if we are being selfish with a family financial decision that we're making. And I'm going to preface it by saying that we are in total agreement on this and he would be the one to have the conversation with his family. So, the overall situation is that he has um many

siblings um and we try to get together

and go on vacations or just um have

family gatherings fairly often. However, his youngest sister does have a very

different financial situation than the rest of us have. So, we've covered um her expenses anytime we get together and particularly going on vacation. Usually not a big deal. It's just a few hundred extra bucks. Um however um there has

kind of been an expectation to pay and there is conversation around going overseas um to where they are from originally where the family is from originally for a bigger trip in 2025 which would if we covered the her

expenses it would cost us thousands of dollars. Um that's just not in our budget. Um it's not something we can do.

It would already be kind of at the top of our budget to begin with. Um but in

kind of expressing this um decision um

not being able to cover her her husband and her five kids, it's really ripping apart our family because we're being told we're being selfish by not helping her out. And sorry, it's her husband and her five kids.

And yes, and who who's telling you you're selfish?

Um the other siblings and her how much of it were they covering? They were

We've always kind of split things fairly equally and so if we split it three

ways, it would still be a few thousand dollars for all of us. Can I ask why?

Can I ask why? Uh why is what's the situation that everybody is floating them? Yeah, that's a great question. Um,

so some of it, um, I'm I would say it's lifestyle choices just in the fact that, um, they live in a small town. Her husband doesn't have a big income and then she's chosen to stay home and homeschool. The kids, have a bigger family. Um, so the more you tell me, the more I'm laughing internally, like the more you tell me about this, the more I'm realizing how ridiculous this this expectation is.

And yeah, that's there's no obligation.

Anything that you've done before, you kind of did set up maybe an expectation.

But you did that out of the kindness of your heart, as it sounds like the other siblings did. But just because someone is kind and decide that they want to give one time doesn't mean that they're obligated to give every time and at the whatever limit that other person decides, right? If I were you, I would

have no when I tell you I would lose zero sleep over saying I'm not going to fund this. It's too expensive, period.

And you don't have to give a bunch of reasons. Just, hey, it was fun for us to be able to do that before with this trip. We're not going to be able to help out. And by the way, probably going forward, you know, we've decided that the faucet has turned off at this point.

Especially with the way you folk have reacted. Yeah. Yeah. No gratefulness.

Yeah. Entitled. Gratitude turned into entitlement. And so, um, yeah.

The the the issue is this.

take your money, to they feel entitled

to your money. And then when you set a boundary with a boundaryless person, roughly 100% of the time it

pisses them off almost every time, right? And so

once you say, "You can't play in the yard. It's my yard and you can't come over here. There's a fence here. You should stay on your side of the fence." You know, that's a boundary.

In other words, then the people who have gotten used to treating your yard like it's their yard. Yes. Um, and they go, "Oh, but we're but we like playing in your yard." And so, no, you can't play in my checkbook anymore. Um, there's not room for both of us.

And so, I'm going to declare it mine, and I'm going to close the gate. The gate was open, and now the gates's closed.

That kind of goes there, too. So, um that's that's the way I mean a and as

far as the other siblings uh whining about it, it falls under the category of nuna. Mhm. Nuna business. Go kick rocks.

Exactly. And here's the thing. I thought you were going to lay out some um hardship or something that was kind of outside the box, but truly it's choices.

Yeah. Choices. And and so you chose not to be able to afford to go on this international vacation with your five children. Um which by the way most people Yeah. I I never even saw the ocean till I was a teenager. So I mean I grew up in Tennessee. So I mean come on.

I mean it's like that that's what that's what people that don't have money do, you know? So it's you you don't get to do stuff that people with money get to do. It's how that works. And so um Gosh, I'm sorry though. I'm sorry it's bringing a a pain to y'all. And I wish I wish I had something other than smart alic things to say that would actually make this go away because it they because it won't but it won't go away.

And so you're just going to have to smile and say, "Gosh, I'm so sorry y'all feel that way. I love y'all, but this is our decision." Mhm. And you don't have to, you don't I would not justify it. I wouldn't talk about the decisions they need to make different.

I wouldn't talk about enabling. I wouldn't talk about entitlement or boundaries. I would just say this is our decision. We love y'all and um gosh, I hope it doesn't I hope you don't permanently cut us off, but if you do, then that's what you'll have to do.

And gosh, I sure hope not. But we love y'all. And no, the good news is you and your spouse are on the same page about this. That's the only way.

And you already prefaced it with he's going to handle his own family. Bless his heart.

it's a thing, man. It's a thing. So Oh,

wow. Yeah, that's I've had some of these conversations. I mean, when we went broke and lost everything. So Sharon has five brothers and sisters and there's 13 grandkids. Mhm. Okay. Of which Daniel is

the youngest. Okay. So Rachel's one of the youngest, in other words. And so that family, they've all done very well and they're wonderful people. And everybody gave everybody something at Christmas. Well,

I completely screwed that up because I

went broke and I didn't have the money to give everybody everybody something.

Right. And so we were there at Thanksgiving and they're talking about Christmas and I said, "Guys, um, I'm sorry. I got bad news. I I we just can't

do that. We we just went bankrupt. We don't any money. And so we're going to have to draw names." And the kid, and my suggestion also is the children under 12 get gifts from other people, but everybody else is treated as an adult and gets one gift from another adult, and we all just draw names. And no, to their credit, I'm

bragging on my wife's family. They all said, "That's a really good idea because I think this other one sucked. It was getting out of control." And I'm glad you brought it up. But I was kind of Sharon.

Sharon's like, "They're not going to like that." And I said, "I know they're generous, sweet people. They're not going to like it, but we don't have any money." Oh, man. So, we can't play anymore. We don't have the We We can't pay the ticket to play in this.

Yeah. We can't get into this place anymore. We can't pay the ticket.

solid people who respected the pain that we were in at the time and how embarrassing it was for us to have to say that out loud out and all of that at that. I mean, can you imagine sitting at your in-laws Thanksgiving dinner? Yeah.

And and announcing I have been there and my story didn't go as well, Dave. Oh,

no. Oh, no. You know, you caused trouble

with the in-laws, did you, Jay? I said maybe we give names. Maybe we draw names. I didn't know she was that way.

I wouldn't have known it. All right. You know, there you go. Well, here's the thing.

We're still drawing names to this day. So, oh, even though there was some kicking and screaming to begin with, but it's okay. It's a good thing now. It's a good thing.

Well, you know how I feel. Adults don't need to buy other adults gifts. I heard you talk I heard Rachel and George talking about you the other day on their show saying that. I like that.

So, there we go. Get your own blender.

Aunt Gertie. Hayden is in Nashville. Hi,

Hayden. Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

Appreciate it. Appreciate everything you do. Thank you. Um, so basically I'm calling about my mom. I'm very concerned for her. She has a um bad track record

for being financially smart. Um, and

recently she just got into a relationship. It's only been about 6 months and he has a lot of money. Um, so she thinks that she wants to quit her job um, and live off of his money and

then sell her house and then that's her

retirement. So, I don't I just don't really know like how to give her advice.

And she has asked me for advice. She She did ask. Interesting. She She did ask

for advice. Cuz the one thing that changes the whole discussion is the marriage date. When are they getting married?

That's exactly my point as well. Like I'm telling her you get married before you decide to quit your job or decide to

move in with him. Like But is there If

you quit your job and move in with somebody and sell your house that's rich, that's called a sugar daddy.

We have a name for that guy. He's a really He's I don't care. He's a sugar daddy. Still, he might be a nice one,

but that's what he is. No, you don't do that. Mom, how did you get to be mom and not know that?

Trust me, I don't know. So, what what have you said to her? What have you said to her so far about it? What have you told her so far? Um, he wants to take care of her and she, you know, he

supports her in any decision she wants to do. If she doesn't want to work anymore, that's okay. She'll he'll pay for, you know, all the bills and she wants to sell her car. She also has a she owes 20,000 on her car right now.

Um 8,000 in credit cards. You know, she's not good with her money. And I'm saying, what have you told her about this? Have you told her anything yet?

I told her I told her that one she needs to get married if she wants to, you know, rely on his income.

Oh, yeah. Um, for sure. And it's hard

it's hard for her to listen to me cuz like I'm not married so I don't Ah, okay. Another strand. Well, it's you're her kid. That's strand one. And And that's another thing, too. Yes. And then you've not been in the type of relationship that she's been in. At least that's the way she's going to view it, which is true. So, you're fighting a like you're fighting a current 100%. Let me tell you what, if you ask your mom's dad, he's probably gone, right? Yeah. Yeah.

But if we were to ask, they didn't have a good relationship. They didn't know.

That's probably not a good example then. If we were to ask her uncle, he would have said, "No, I'll bunk him on the head." No. Right.

Or I mean, even if you flip the script and put yourself in that situation, although I I would love to think that she would tell you to do the the opposite, but she might tell you to do the same thing that she's doing. So, she she would smell that one out. Um I I

don't you know, your question is how to convince her of what all three of us know that this is a bad idea. Okay.

Yeah. So, I guess the thing is this.

Okay. Here's the thing. Anytime, mom, you're making a great huge decision and

there's s a series of great huge decisions you're making here. You have to play out the decision. Is it a happy happy decision? Now, the way that works

is this. You're happy if this works and

you're still happy if this doesn't work.

If it all works and you just play house and the sugar daddy takes care of you, it worked. You're happy. That's your plan. But what happens if he dumps you in the street for a 10-year you younger version,

trades you in on a new model mom, uh because he can do that pretty easily here by waving the exact same car he waved in front of you, um and be sugar daddy to somebody else. So when he puts you in the street with no house, no car, and no job, where are you going to be?

Mhm. So you don't make big decisions

like this, mom, when one of the possible outcomes is devastation,

bad risk management. Bad lack of wisdom.

Lack of wisdom. And I'm also just not in a position financially to help her.

She's asked me in the past for money.

That doesn't that doesn't enter into how stupid this is.

Whether you give her money or not doesn't mean this is smart. and you're gonna have to accept the fact that she's gonna do you could lay out the best argument in the world like perfectly just eloquent everything makes sense and she could still go and make this choice and it's going to be bad for her and you're going to have to just learn how to live with that and accept the fact that she's a grown woman and she's making a bad mistake and there's nothing in many ways there's nothing you can do about it and that's I think that that's the hardest part of being in a relationship with anyone that you really care about is they get to choose.

there anyone in her life that's wise that she

trusts?

Her brother. Have him call her and scream at her.

I'm serious. She really he he really likes the guy. So, I haven't seen him

like I said I asked if he was wise.

Oh, if he's wise, he doesn't think this is a good idea. I'm not saying the guy's a horrible guy. I'm saying this a horrible deal for your mom without put a ring on it, buddy. Well, the guy probably thinks if this is a a I'm going to say in air quotes, a good guy.

This guy probably thinks he's offering your mom the world. So, maybe somebody needs to get in his ear and make him see, hey, we we like you. We we we think that you're probably trying to take care of our mom, but can you do this the right way? Because this way the way that you're doing it now makes us nervous because if for some reason it doesn't work out, she's on her butt, right?

So maybe that's the way to go at this is if there's somebody that has the right relationship to talk to him.

Right. Put a ring on. My mom just needs a reality check, too. The problem is she's not looked at the downside.

Anytime you're making a big decision, you have to look at the downside. What's the possible negative outcome from this?

And it'll keep you from doing some stupid butt stuff if you don't only consider that, you know, sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles. You know, it doesn't always turn out sunshine, rainbows, and Skittles. Especially when the deal is set up poorly from the start. You're kind of asking for it.

Yeah, that's true. You're asking to have your butt kicked. Life's going to come along and go, "You was stupid. Here's your butt kicking. Ready? Here you go." And we all get to pay some stupid tax.

We've all done some stupid butt stuff. And she's signing up for one here. This is a trip that's going to be harsh.

Please don't do this, lady. Please don't do this. Put a ring on it or don't do it. It's pretty simple. Cuz I got to tell you, it changes the chemistry.

Well, I was going to say, there's no like balance of power in this relationship. She sells everything she has. There's no way in the world she could live in a house probably that that he lives in on her. You know what I'm saying? She has no ability to keep up life. We need to bring back some of the vernacular from bygone era. Let me hear it. A kept woman. Oh, you ever heard that one? Yes. That's very uh I don't

want to say the word old, but that that's that's ancient. That's um a kept woman. She's being kept. Yeah. For her

use. Yes.

Does that give you a little chill? Gives me a little chill. I don't like it. My My dad's stuff, my grandpa stuff gets angry right then. So, I just can't put a ring on it. Michael is in Charlotte.

Hey, Michael. What's up?

Hey, I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um, I had a question. Um, my wife and I are in the process of buying a house. We

were preapproved and our loan officer uh

told us she doesn't advise 20% down payment. We're in North

Carolina. She says the appreciation rate in North Carolina. I don't advise you using this loan officer. She's stupid.

Yeah, I figured you would say something along those lines, but I'm just I don't I have a hard time understanding how that works out, how it would be. Well, her thing is is that borrowed money has no risk, so borrow all you can.

Okay. My thing is I've met people who are up to their eyeballs in a mortgage and can't get out. They're stuck because of some idiot loan officer like this. By the way, she gets paid on what? What's her percentage on the loan amount?

Conflict of interest in this advice.

Hello. Hey, you need more money if you

don't put down so much. He needs to go to our real estate hub and find some folks who are going to actually help him. Go to ramiesolutions.com/ real estate. There it is. That's easy. A whole bunch of stuff there that'll help you, Michael. Yeah. But she's getting paid on that. You do need a loan officer. This woman's not smart. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, "Hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order." Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and

never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete Me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete Me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites and it is an incredible service that everyone needs.

And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find so much. But delete me will delete your data, hence the name, it's gone. They'll wipe it out for you so you can sleep easy.

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So, uh, let's do some finance 101. All

right. Couple of things. The first thing they teach you in finance class, one of the first things they teach you is what's called risk return

ratio. The more risk you take, the

higher return you should get. So when

you put your money in an FDICsured bank, no risk virtually, but

they pay you almost nothing. Fair

enough, right? If you uh move it around

a little bit, mess with a little bit. Uh you can put it in a good high yield savings account, which we'll sidebar on that for a second. We were talking about this off air a little bit. We'll come back to my risk return ratio in a minute, but we'll just turn left for a second and park there. A high yield savings account is exactly what it says it is. It is a savings account at a bank that pays a better rate. Ding ding y. That's it.

Okay. A CD, a certificate of deposit, is

a savings account at a bank. Mhm. And

they give you a certificate. Yes. And you have to like perfect attendance. You remember that one? Yeah. Yeah. But you you can't touch that one. Yeah. But you could touch it, but you won't get all of the high yield. Okay. The high yield savings accounts, fully liquid, pays more than CDWs do. Right now, CDs have just about been run out of the out of town by the sheriff. Okay. Uh 10 years

ago, we didn't call them high yield savings accounts at the bank. We had a savings account at the bank that the bank labeled wrong, but they did it for

marketing reasons. The bank called it a money market account at the bank. It was

a savings account at the bank that paid

a higher rate like a high yield savings

account does. Same exact thing. It's a savings account that paid a better rate that mimicked real money

markets. But the bank did not sell money

markets.

They had a savings account called a money market account that had an interest rate that was similar to a real money market account. A real money market account was only available through and still is only available through something like a mutual fund company. So, you could go to Fidelity or American Funds or whatever and open an actual money market account.

methodology. It's a better marketing actually than money market because it says I'm going to give you more money, higher yield. It says I'm higher interest savings account. That's what it says. It is what it says it is actually.

And the money market account was just a misnomer. Yeah. But it was all for marketing. It's all banks selling their wares. So, uh, high yield savings account, simple savings account, little better interest rate, but almost no risk. So, back to the risk return ratio.

Um, if you want to double your

money, you know, you're you're pretty much going to leave investing and go to

gambling or speculating. Yeah. Now, some

people call speculating investing, but it's really not. Speculating is where I want a short quick return on my money.

That's speculating. Day trading stocks is not

investing. That's buying and selling stocks on a daily basis or a weekly basis. That is speculating. When you build a when a builder, a home builder builds a home that does not have a buyer, he they called speck houses. Speculating.

They're speculating. They're building an unsold piece of inventory they hope to

sell now. They're not investing for 10 years when they build that house.

Praise. They pray they're not investing for 10 years. They they hope you're going to buy the house when you So that's why they're called speck houses.

They're speculating. The builders are speculating. That's not investing. It's right next to gambling.

and you can make a lot better money speculating, but you're taking the ultimate high risk. It's it's kind of an all or nothing play usually. It's why I don't buy commodities like gold and um

wheat futures or whatever. I I because it's all speculating. It's short-term plays with a gain. It's why we don't do Bitcoin. It's a shortterm play with a

potential gain. And it's got a no track record. The only track record it has is filled with fraud and go to jail, do not pass go, right? And so it's just a mess.

So the whole the whole marketplace is high ultra high risk speculating. It's

not even investing. But along the spectrum of investing, the more risk you take, the more money you ought to make.

So if you put mutual funds, I've got a mutual fund that opened in 1934.

Uh it has had like in that 80 or 90

years it's had like I don't know 10 years it lost money out of 80 or 90 years or something like that. Not consecutive not consecutive years but in the entire time 10 different individual times individual years no back never back toback not a single back and they're always major occurrences 911 something since 1934 okay and it's averaged 12.2% since 1934.

Okay. Now, if I can make that investment by simply pushing enter on my computer,

it's all I got to do. Hit push a button.

There's no I don't have any effort to go

with it. Then, if you're going to do if you're going to flip houses, that's speculating. Mhm. All right. You're hoping to make a quick buck. You dad gum better well make more

than 12% on your money. You ought to make 20% at least.

ought to be your margin. It ought to be more, but at least a minimum of 20%.

Otherwise, you're taking too much risk versus the 12 you could make with no with a 1934 historical track record.

Okay. Yeah. Um you you got to the risk

ratio on that is way different. And where does the effort play into it, too?

Yeah. And effort. and the effort plays into it and and the worry because all speculating involves jumping in and out and involves a level of fretting over it and ringing your hands over it. Mental calories um mental calories burning.

Investing even in high-risk things

doesn't involve the same level of calorie burn. Yeah. That speculating does. But where you guys mess up sometimes out there in the tick-tock land of finance is they they confuse

speculating with investing.

Investing is always long-term.

Speculating is a quick gain, but a

higher much higher risk gain at best.

And then past that is actual gambling.

Mhm. I mean, when you're specking on a house, flipping a house, or you're speculating even on Bitcoin, it is not the same as playing the roulette wheel.

It's It's less risk than the roulette wheel because you know you're going to walk away from Vegas. The house wins

100%. Okay. House wins. Bellagio did not

put those light fixtures in there. Uh, you know, they did not put those $10 million light fixtures in there with anybody's money but yours if you were in Bellagio. Okay? I mean, it's Vegas is built on the back of losers. Um, people

who lose money. That's what I mean. And that's that's how it's how the math works. So I'm not saying you physically personally are a loser. I'm saying you lost your money there, right? You're a loser. So yeah, you lost your money. So that's it. So that but that's the spectrum, okay? You go all the way from savings account with no risk, no effort, no calorie burn to the roulette wheel, all the way to the roulette wheel. And the more risk you take, you should make

more money. If you're not, you're missing on the very basic tenant of finance 101, risk return ratio. More

risk should always equal more return. If it doesn't, that's dumb. Don't do that.

Mhm. So, our last caller doing the flips, she needs to be making 20%. And it didn't seem like she was. She don't know. She might be. She might have made 30%. She didn't know. That's true. She didn't know. She didn't even know. But you got to know, number one. And then number two, you need to be making that.

I mean, a good residential builder is going to make 20 plus percent uh most of the time, depending on what type of prop property they're doing, if they're doing specs. Mhm. And if you're not, you're setting yourself up for problems because you're going to hit these slow times when it takes a little while to sell a speculative piece of real estate. You are speculating. You are a speculator.

Look it up in the dictionary. So, is this what we can expect from your investing? Yeah, I might go on the same rent. I might put it in there in the investment live stream investment event.

Yeah. I'm going to do that. What is it? May 2122. I'm doing two hours each night. Mhm. Two hours of it will be on real estate. But I'm going to go a whole lot deeper into real estate for sure.

And I but I'll probably put this rant in there because I've kind of been noodling on it lately. I think it's a problem that people misidentify these things and they call speculating investing when it's not. This is the Ramsey Show.

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## 173. The Only Hack To Paying Off Debt Is Doing The Hard Work | January 7, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `XaQMB5bVMOs` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaQMB5bVMOs) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:50:42 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke. Common Sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Wshaw Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions. The phone number is88255225.

Jade is in Memphis. Hi Jade. How are you? >> Hi guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. So I am We were in baby step two, but now we're in baby step one. and I got a notification that one of our credit cards is in um threat of being

charged off within 30 days. And so I

don't really know what we should do. If I should take out a loan, ask friends for that money um because they're trying to settle or if I should just let it go to collection. >> How much is it?

>> It is 10,000 but they're letting they want to settle for 4,800.

>> Okay. Do you have any money anywhere?

>> No. So, I lost my job in October and I

found out I was pregnant and then I lost the baby um in December.

>> I'm sorry. >> And so, we have less than the $1,000 in

savings and we're paycheck to paycheck right now. >> Okay. What? I'm sorry. I'm sorry you went through that. Uh what are you and your husband earning combined every month? >> Well, so before I mean my job I I got

60,000. So, we we took a $60,000 pay cut. Huh? >> Um, and he makes 50.

>> Are you back? Are you Are you getting a job? Have you found a position?

>> Um, so I have got a new job. I'm a mental health therapist, but it's part-time right now while I build clients. >> Um, so I'm bringing home like anywhere from 500 to a,000 every two weeks.

>> Okay. Okay. That's not that's not too too bad. 500 to a,000 every two weeks.

Okay. So, here's here's what I'm thinking right now. you really are. Um, you've you've been through a lot very quickly and I I applaud you for jumping back on your feet really quick. Uh, is this $10,000? Is this the only debt you have? Is there more?

>> No. So, we have two more credit cards.

Um, so 30 and then this 10, so 40. Um,

the other two were in payment plans for >> um, so when I lost my job, I went into I closed them and I went into payment plan with lower interest rates. M >> um but this one they wouldn't work with us and so we didn't have the money to pay it.

>> Okay. Tell me a little bit more about I'm just trying to figure out what you can scr up if there's anything you can sell how quickly you can get this or if you can even negotiate a smaller amount than the 4,800. Likely not. But I would try it.

Um >> see I didn't know if I should call and I should try that. >> I would not not unless you have not unless you have the money line. >> Try it. >> Not unless you got the money.

Is there anything you can sell off?

>> So, one car we own outright and then one car we still have 10 left on, 10,000 left on. >> Okay. >> Um and that's our main vehicle.

>> How many How many kids do you have, hun?

>> We have one. >> Okay. >> And we have and we pay for daycare. So, she's four. So, we pay >> How quickly is your income going to ramp up, do you think?

>> I'm hoping within the month. Um so, by February, we should get my back to my

income. I get paid 50 I get paid 53 an

hour >> um and I have 10 clients right now. So if I can get up to 20 client then I should reach that >> um by February but this will be charged off by the end of January.

>> How much is Let's stop. Let's stop a second. Okay. Charged off does not mean anything.

>> Okay. >> Okay. You already have a debt that has

gone collection to collections.

your debt is already bad. Agreed.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Okay. When they charge it off, it simply means they are not going to count it on

their books anymore because they don't think they're going to collect it, but it doesn't it doesn't make your credit worse. Your credit already is trashed.

>> Yeah, it's bad. I just didn't want them to like sue us and car.

>> They'll get they'll get around they'll get around to that eventually, but charging it off is not that is not a sign you're getting ready to get sued.

How long ago did you pay the last payment on this account?

>> Um, probably September.

>> Okay. You you're you're I doubt you're in any danger.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> I don't care if they charge it off.

Guess what? But if they charge it off the next day you talk to them, >> they'll take the 4,800 >> cuz they still want their money.

>> Mhm.

>> The only difference is just The only difference is just they're they're coming up with these boogeymen in the closet. Oh, we're going to charge it off. No, please. What does that mean?

No, please. What does that even mean?

Yeah, it doesn't mean anything really.

Okay, so let's not worry about it.

>> I don't want to be kicked while we're down. I know you you could get sued, but

even then you could settle the lawsuit

for the same 4,800. Okay? It's not like

every day this gets uh later and later

and later, the chances statistically of them collecting it is smaller and smaller. So, they are more and more flexible. >> They'll settle for less and less, >> not less and less flexible.

>> Okay? >> So, it's not like it's a one-time good time deal. This is a one-time okay deal

and you probably could get the exact same deal or better two months from now when you guys are back on your feet.

>> Okay. >> I I think I'm just going to say, you know, guys, I you know, we just lost a baby. I've got a brand new job. We simply don't have the money. It's a very

kind offer for 4,800, but I don't have $4,800.

If I did, you probably wouldn't be late.

Well, I didn't know if I should stop paying the other two cards that we're current on to try to make a deal with them or if I should. >> No, just let I would just keep doing what you're doing and let's get back up on our feet and then let's get every get get the debt snowball working >> and start paying those minimum payments you're paying. You can save up some money and call these people and say, "Hey, I got $4,000. I got $3,000.

You want to take that?" If they want to take it, fine. If not, hang up on them. Call them back in two months. They'll do it then.

>> Okay. >> Matter of fact, I know we're not going to let them establish the urgency.

>> I literally when you're telling this story, Jade, it's funny because I literally wrote a similar about a similar instance in my book and you're saying the same thing. What you just said about, oh, I'm thinking of taking these other credit cards and not paying those and paying it to other people. you feel that because of the stress and they're calling you and they're blowing up your phone and you're trying to focus on other things and they're just inundating you with calls and offers.

And Dave is right like just do what you know to do. Keep those minimum payments going. Get on your feet and don't let them be in control. Cuz if you let them be in control, all they want to do is take. They don't care about the fact that you need to buy groceries. They don't care about the fact that you lost a a a baby. They don't care about that.

And so don't give them any more power.

and don't give them any ammunition. There's no sense in having a discussion.

>> Yeah. That's why I stopped making those payments because they just wouldn't work with us. >> And then and guess what? Now they're very flexible.

>> Okay. >> And guess what? Three months from three months from now, they'll be flexible again. >> Be like little gymnasts calling you up.

>> I love it. >> I'm going to give you a copy of my book. Okay, Jade. >> Yeah. Yeah. Jade to Jade. Jade to Jade.

>> Hook. Friend to friend. I never meet anybody with my same name. That's very That's a very new thing for me. So, >> and with a question that you've been through. >> I know. Exactly. It was meant to be on this publishing day.

>> There we go. The book comes out today.

>> Mhm. >> It's on the street. What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting

unstuck from someone who's been there

and it's talk to credit card people at the credit card time charged off.

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Well guys, we know there's a lot of chaos out there making you feel like you cannot get ahead with money. A lot of messages, a lot of voices saying it can't be done. But you have more control

than you think and then you're being told. This year, it's time to take back

your money. starting at our free every

dollar live stream this this Thursday night. Jade and I will be hosting this

and hundreds of thousands of you, probably millions, will be joining us.

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going to give you the clarity in the middle of the chaos and we can show you actually how to take back your money, get ahead with money, and we're going to be giving away $20,000 cash that night.

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and that put you in there for the giveaway and also send you up to get all the the links and everything so you can watch the free every dollar live stream.

Jade and I will be doing it in front of a 2500 person audience right here in our

Ramsey Event Center this coming Thursday night. I'm looking forward to it.

>> Me, too. Yeah, ramseyolutions.comlivestream.

And uh I watched Jade do her portion of it the other day in practice rounds and you guys I listen

I should charge you a lot for this but

it's free. I'm just saying it's really you're going to get some solid information, some things to help you cut through all the garbage that's out there. There's a lot of squawking out there. Have you noticed? And the only way you get rid of the squawking is to have a plan. >> Because then you quit listening to all the squawking. And everybody's got a dad gum opinion about why you can't win.

Have you ever noticed that? And they're all people that aren't winning, by the way. Um, hello. People that are winning,

they don't they don't write in the comments section.

>> Good point. >> You ever seen successful people that stop and write stuff negative in someone else's comments section?

>> They don't. And that your comment section, if you don't know, is not necessarily your YouTube page. It's just your life when you're sitting there saying something positive and they're going, "Oh, yeah, but don't you know about and it's the little man can't get ahead and oh, it's all rigged and the corporations the corporations and the and the taxes and the government and the inflation and Biden and Trump and oh

shut up. [Music] >> Seriously." See, that's the chaos and the voices, the squawking I'm talking about. We're going to help you with that this Thursday night for free.

ramseysolutions.com/livestream.

Be sure and jump in. And uh it's the free every dollar live stream. Katherine

is in Dallas. Hey, Katherine. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Good. How can we help?

>> Uh so I was recently laid off um

effective at the end of the month. Um, and now me and my husband are trying to figure out what we should do with what we have in savings to kind of make that work the best for us.

>> Okay. What were you making?

>> Uh, I was making about 42,000 a year.

>> Okay. Doing what?

>> Uh, as a legal assistant.

>> Okay. And they laid you off after

Christmas.

>> No, before Christmas.

>> Oh, that month. >> The week before. >> The week before. >> I'm sorry.

So you were working for Grinch and Grinch. >> I mean, wow. Might as >> well have. Yeah.

>> I can't imagine. If I was going to lay somebody off the week before Christmas, I would do it the week before Thanksgiving.

>> Just so I didn't do it the week before Christmas. >> Just give it some air.

>> It came after they flew me out for a Christmas party. >> Oh. >> The week before.

>> What did you do at the Christmas party, Catherine?

one free drink and my hotel then.

>> Oh boy. I'm sorry.

>> Oh man, I'm sorry. Okay, this sucks.

Okay, anyway, aside from their lack of um quality timing, um

let's see. So, how's the job hunt going?

>> Um so, I started it that night after a

bottle of wine. >> Good for you. >> Crying. >> A bottle of wine. It's a good thing to sign, you know, start filling out your resume after a bottle of wine.

Yeah. So, I've got a couple of interviews lined up and the goal obviously is to not have any laps.

>> There you go. There you go. So, you got a little severance.

>> Uh, no. No severance. >> Oh, they told me that the notice was our severance.

>> Oh, I see. >> So, you're just trying You don't want to have any lack of uh >> Good. No laps. Yeah. Yeah. Good. That's a good plan. All right. >> So, how's how's the how are you getting some nibbles?

Um, I've got a couple of interviews lined up and I hope that like again like

I hope there's no lapse and that I hope that something anything I will do anything. >> Okay. Can you cover can you not cover the laps for one month on your husband's income? >> Yeah. What's he make >> on my husband's income? He's military.

So I think he puts down like if we are filling out a form I think he puts down like 70,000 a year is what he makes.

Mhm. >> Um when we did cuz that night we did a

breakdown of our expenses. Um if we changed absolutely nothing, we would be in the negative every month.

>> How much? >> Um uh it was like a few hundred bucks cuz >> Okay. And how much do you how much do you have in savings?

>> Uh we have about 16,000 between the two of us. I actually went to be a surrogate

>> and had a miscarriage about partway through that process. So, we have a decent amount of money in a separate account because I purposely did not want to spend it um that we have not touched >> aside from the 16,000.

>> No, that is the bulk of >> Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the deal. >> Don't do anything.

just go get a job and if you don't get one and you have a gap for $200 or $300,

take the $200 or $300 out of the 16,000 and then the next month you're back up to even, right?

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That's what the emergency fund is there for. >> Yeah. Now, you've got debt and other stuff though, right?

>> Yes, we do have debt.

>> So, for right now, for right now, we're not doing a total money makeover. We're just going to sit here in the middle of the hurricane until the wind quits blowing and that's when you get the new job and then we will assess the damage

and that might be that you have to pay a couple hundred bucks out of the 1,600 out of the 16,000 to uh to float you for

that one month till you get your paycheck going again. But I'm pretty damn sure listening to you, you're going to have a paycheck in a month.

>> I sure hope so. >> I mean, really, I think you are, don't you?

Uh, I'm watching. >> Okay. So, if you don't if you don't if you don't, it cost you 200 bucks of your savings, right?

>> Yeah. It would cost you a couple hundred. >> And if you don't if you don't the next month, it cost you 200 more.

>> Mhm. >> That's 400 whole dollars

out of 16,000. Whoopde.

>> And if you start creeping up on two or three months, you could easily pick up a little side hustle. >> You're not She's not gonna do that. She's gonna have a job because you got too much going on here. you're going to get a job. So my point is is you just don't do anything and if you have to cover a little bit, you know, less than $1,000 out of the 16, it's no big deal, right? Mathematically,

>> right? >> It just goes all It just goes all with the fear of looking for a job and the pissed off of being mistreated and all that stuff mixes in >> and then the math quits being clear,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz my husband and I disagree. He wants to pay things off and I'm like, "No, but you can't right now. You got to get right You got to get right side up first." >> As soon as you get back to work, the two of you need to combine your income, combine your debt, combine your savings, and start the total money makeover and

start getting, you know, get save $1,000 and take the rest of that 16 and throw it at the debt, smallest to largest once you're moving again. And you know, I want to change your your your mindset on this a little bit, Katherine. And I know it's easy for me to say it on this side of things, but you got to look at this

as an opportunity. Instead of looking at it like, "Oh man, I got fired. I got fired the week before Christmas." And all these negative things, maybe it's an opportunity for you to make more money than you've ever made and have a better job than what you had before in in a more fulfilling work space, right? >> It's not a high bar to get better people to work with.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And note to self, don't fly out to next year's Christmas party.

>> Yeah. >> Wow.

>> No bottle of wine before the interview.

>> Yeah. They started budgeting and did that resume right after that first bottle of wine. We're going to get everything straightened out now by

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] >> Jesse is in Memphis. Hi Jesse. How are you? >> I'm doing better than I deserve. How about you Dave? >> Just the same sir. What's up? Good.

Good. Um, okay. So, little preface. Um,

I work for a great company and I did

fairly well last year and so they were taking my wife and I on a cruise in February along with a lot of the people who had also gotten, you know, the metrics and I was just wondering, I'm in baby step two and so I know I shouldn't be on any vacations or going out spending um, but am I allowed to have an allotted job to use on this vacation?

And yes, I get paid for it. >> Is it just you just need pocket money?

>> You're allowed to do whatever you want to do, Jesse. But you know what? What would we do if you're in baby step two?

This cruise is not costing you anything?

>> No. Um, I get paid the whole time I'm gone. I get room and board and the company vehicle down to the port.

>> Okay. So, so just pocket money for meals or whatever.

>> Meal should be included on the cruise, right? >> Yeah. But you still need a little bit of money. It's just um for like excursions or to have a little fun cuz this is the only vacation that uh I'm quote unquote planning.

So >> what if you planned if you planned it out and you've looked at it, what do you think is the number of the amount of money you think you would need for it that you would spend? >> Oh yes, we did it last year and I did like bare bones so I didn't spend anything. Um and I know that we could do it again like that. Uh but bring like >> Don't talk Don't talk to me about I don't ever get to go on vacation.

And I did a cruise last year. >> Yeah, that's the plan. >> No whiny.

>> agreed. Agreed. >> Wait, let me let me get you back to your senses. How much debt do you have?

>> Okay. Um, so I got about five in consumer um through cards. That's what started this y'all in November. So I've already cut that down from 7K.

>> And then uh I got my car and that's about 14. And that's that's it.

>> I I would go Jesse, but what I would do is I want you to reframe this in your head.

Okay. Um, the reason that we teach people to stay out of restaurants and stay out of vacations while they're in baby step two is total focus.

That I have one job and that's to defeat

the debt. Because if I live like no one

else, later I can live and give like no one else. I'm paying a price to win.

Okay. >> Okay. >> And that's how you frame this decision in your head.

>> Not not Dave, I want to go on vac. We're

not going to get to you on vacation for a long time and we went on a cruise last year, but come on, man.

>> Wait, let me frame Let me frame it to you like that. >> Sorry. No, I mean really, you you need to frame it up with >> I'm going to do this. I don't need Dave's permission to do it for sure.

You're like a grown man and you hit your metrics. Okay. But um but you're I'm gonna do this, but I'm also going to make sure that the altitude and the attitude and the angle of my heart is permanently changed.

>> Oh yeah. >> The away from the rationalizations and the justifications that allowed me to get into this mess in the first place.

>> Yes, sir. >> That's why we do this because we're trying to shock your spirit >> into saying you're not entitled to

vacations or eating out. Those are entertainment luxury items while you're broke people. And I want to I want people's spirit to be shocked. That's what happened to my spirit. I didn't have the option of doing it voluntarily.

It was snatched from me because I was so stupid. I went bankrupt. So I got I got you beat hands down on stupid, right?

>> And I I listen, I thought whining was a little known form of prayer. So I had

whining down too, you know. So, but but what I figured out is is that you have to change the >> the altitude, the attitude, the angle of

your heart permanently regarding these

things. So, you never again uh talk

yourself into something that down deep you know you shouldn't be doing. I think this is fine mathematically.

>> Okay. Yeah. And uh on Jade's point of view, I just wanted to add this real quick. I am picking up a side job this year, too.

So, >> doesn't matter. That should all go towards the debt. It's still it's it's B what we're talking about is you set the boundary and once if you have said to yourself I'm getting out of debt that's the priority. If you let these little things start sneaking past the goalpost more and more sneak past.

It's like it's like when you say I'm not eating any sweets and then somebody makes a pan of brownies. Well, already you've gone past it because the pan is there. But then what do you do? You slice off a little piece and you go I'm just going to have that little piece.

>> Then you go back in and you slice off another little corner and another little corner. And before you know it, you've ate the pan of brownies. following me around.

>> That's what we all do. We've all done it. And that's a great way to think of it. You got a pound of brownies because they gave you the free trip. You get to decide how much you slice off.

>> Don't slice any of it off. You already got the pan is just sitting there.

>> And you know what we're doing is you have to set new neuropathways in your brain. >> Yeah. That's the real part >> that says I'm done with this crap.

So, I would go, but I'm gonna, you know, your your side hustle is to set the new

neuropathways and go, I'm going, but I'm

going to be unbelievably disciplined about this slice.

>> Yes. Very disciplined.

>> Because I know the danger is not the actual slice.

>> The danger is I'm still going back to the brownie pan. >> Yes. Throw the throw the pan away after this slice. >> That's the thing, you know, that's that's what it is. I mean that that's what we're trying to you have to permanently change your way you talk to yourself about this. The words that you use out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. The Bible says very true. >> And so the words that we use and the way we talk to ourselves and even the tone

that we use to ourselves about talking ourselves into or out of something reflects whether or not you know is your heart right on this. And that that's the thing. So guys, that's that's the lesson, the takeaway from Jesse's call because it's a good call and Jesse's obviously a good guy and he's obviously a high producing dude. >> And when you go out there though, take a step further what Dave just said.

When you go out there, Jesse, what you can't do is well, I can't spend any money. I can't do that.

to form the words of what you want, which is I'm choosing. Everything's a choice. I've chosen to be grateful that I do this, that the company gave me this cuz otherwise I wouldn't be able to do it this year. Yes. >> Cuz this year >> we're not going on vacation. >> But paying off my debt is my priority. >> Exactly. >> And that's how you talk to yourself. >> Reset this whole this whole set of tapes that's running in your brain, man.

>> Vocab rehab.

>> Um that that's why we do some of the things we do, y'all. It's like the um and what we're trying doing is the pendulum has swung too far to the consumer side >> where he says everything's okay. Hey, just push the submit button, load the cart. Right.

>> Right. >> And uh I can impulse anything I want and I work so hard and I deserve and all these things we tell ourselves >> and all we're doing is swinging the pendulum back to the other side and go, you don't deserve nothing. Shut up. You're broke people, >> man.

>> Good job. >> Your book. >> Yeah. >> The new one. >> The new one that's out today.

>> What no one tells you about money. The real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there. It's the emotional part of this. >> That's right. >> And that's what we're dealing with. neuropathways, the behavior shifts, all

of those things. And you know, the feedback loops you put for yourself.

>> Yes. >> Uh you know, one of the other things that goes with this too, and Jay, I I know you talked about this in there as well in indirectly,

not exactly the way I'm going to say it, in other words, but >> uh one of the things I did, Jesse, when I was at your thing, it's completely different from your question, but it fits in the same bucket of stuff.

I don't do things mechanically,

tactically with how I pay things

>> that aren't automatically always getting me the discount.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, before there was online bill pay because there was no online.

>> Okay. >> I prepaid my utility bills >> to get the discount. >> To get the discounts. >> Prepaid to get the discounts. And I said I set it on an auto calendar, right? I have automatic draft to this day on my

checking account that goes straight into a mutual fund every single month.

>> Automatically out of my checking account so I don't accidentally forget it.

>> That's right. >> I have automatic discipline all the way through there. There was a guy out 100 years ago when one of my first bestsellers called Automatic Millionaire. >> His name is David David Bach. It was a bestselling book.

>> He said just put everything on automatic so that you're automatically doing smart stuff out. >> Automate smart. Yes. And and you don't have to think about you don't have to builtin discipline with the systems, not like I'm going to grip my teeth and do this every time. >> That's right. That's right. >> And that that's the same kind of thing.

We're resetting how we view this and

what's the attitude, the altitude, and the angle of my heart on this stuff.

It's very good.

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Chris is with us in Denver. Hey Chris, how are you?

>> I'm well. Thanks for taking my call Dave. >> Sure man. What's up?

>> Uh so I used to make good money as an engineer and I was on baby step four before I knew what the baby steps were.

>> Good. Uh then three years ago, I made uh

what I realize now uh two major mistakes

in a row. I bought uh the biggest house I could buy with 3% down and PMI

thinking that uh house hacking would be easy. I'm now doing Airbnb. Uh and then

a few months after that, I quit my job uh because I was miserable there. Uh thinking I had enough savings. Um, I can give you some financial details, but I'm wondering if you think I should sell my house. >> Tell us more. What's >> What?

Oh, yeah. Tell us more.

>> Yeah. So, I quit my job.

>> Uh, and then I realized that I would not

be making my mortgage if I were to do house hacking. >> Uhhuh. >> So, I I pivoted um and then started

doing Airbnb. >> Okay. And where are you living to renovate?

During this time uh I was in the house during renovation time I was living in the house. Sorry. Yeah. I was living in the house and then while I was air while

I Airbnb my house I was living with my friends that have a couple of kids and I was helping them. >> Oh gosh. >> Babysitting in a

very close friend. >> How old are you?

>> I am 37. >> Okay. All right. I mean, sometimes if

you wake up from a nightmare and you're standing kneede in the swamp, the best thing to do is to return to the last time there was solid ground and retrace your steps.

And so that would in this case sound like get a job as an engineer and sell the house.

>> Yeah. >> And then you would have your life back.

>> Yeah. What what prevents you from doing that >> in your mind? Well, I was interviewing for some engineering jobs uh in 2025.

Um it was difficult to come back after taking some years off. And I also know that I'm not suited for a 9 to5 now. Um

and I'm pursuing an >> Why are you not suited for a 9 to5?

What's wrong with you?

>> That's a great question. >> Are you trying to say that you're entrepreneurial?

>> Yeah, I believe so.

>> Yeah. You're suited for it. You don't want to do it. Okay. I don't blame you for that. I don't blame you for that. I'm entrepreneurial, too, and I wouldn't want to be trapped somewhere. I don't I don't have an issue with that. But so, what we're saying is not suited for is not the right phrase. What we're saying is it's not preferable for you.

>> But right now, Right now, you're not really in a phase where you can do exactly what you prefer. >> Exactly. Preference is no longer a point. You're neck deep in quicksand.

>> So, I'm wondering if if I do some numbers, if you think I am in quicksand.

So, in 2024, I broke even with my mortgage with the Airbnb. And then in

2025, I was negative 10 or 15,000 with my

Airbnb. >> Is the Airbnb only where does this sound

like it's fun to you?

>> None of this sounds fun to me. If this was a business unit at Ramsay, we would close the thing and call it failed.

>> Yeah.

Um, I'm wondering if an alternative is.

>> Yeah, maybe. >> Why are you reluctant to Why? Hey, why are you reluctant to sell the house?

Yeah, >> you just don't want to get You don't want to admit that this screwed up.

>> Yeah, I I think I might be falling into some cost fallacy.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, definitely 100%. >> What? Tell us tell us the >> Can you sell the house for as much as you owe on it?

>> Uh, yes, I believe so. I put about a h

100,000 into it renovating it.

>> Um >> Oh, you lose that.

>> I mean, what what will the house sell for? >> Yeah.

>> The So, I'm looking at Zillow and Redford right now.

>> I bought it for 650.

>> Mhm. >> Zillow saying 615. Redin saying 580.

>> Oh, so you're not going to get the money out of it.

>> But you put a 100red down or you put 100red in it after you bought it for 650?

100 into it after buying. >> Yeah. So, you owe seven You have $750,000 invested in a house that's worth $600. $600,000.

>> You know better than I did.

>> Well, I mean, is that what you're telling me?

>> That I don't know if if I got an appraisal if it would be worth more. I'm guessing it would be. >> Okay. But I mean, you're telling me you paid $650,000 for it, plus you put 100

into it, meaning you have $750,000 in this house. Correct.

>> Correct. >> And you don't think it's worth anywhere near that is what you're telling me.

>> I don't know. >> Get Get a real estate agent. Go sign go on our site. You need to go to ramseyolutions.com and just in the box type in real estate agent.

It'll take you where you need to go. And you need to have somebody come out there. done that. >> Okay.

And what did they say? What they what would they list it for ver based on what they saw? >> Well, I I started doing that step and then I was like, I'm going to talk to Dave directly. >> Facts.

And now I'm telling you, go do it. See it through so you can see what the actual numbers are. >> You need to have numbers. Uh facts are your friends.

You're in trauma >> and you need to sell this thing if you can. And you need to retrace your steps and get back on solid ground. And then from there, think about how you can come up with some uh career choices after you're making a living again. >> How much money do you have in the bank in in retirement or say no?

>> Probably like about 10,000.

>> 10,000. Okay. >> You got to you got to get a job, man.

Well, since you find the work you're wired to do because I think you don't know what you want to do and I think you're just kind of coasting and this idea that you might be an entrepreneur, I'm glad that that's so, but we need to get some some beef around that and and figure out what that's going to be. In the meantime, yeah, we'll send you the book, but you also just need to get a job. >> Yeah. So, the first thing you're suited to do is buy food, lights, and water. The

second thing you're suited well to do is pay your stinking bills.

>> The third thing you're well suited to do after you've done those two things is find something that is a style of work

that you enjoy, meaning entrepreneurial and more freewheeling than in a nineto-ive. >> But you don't really have a lot of choices right now, man, because you've done screwed this up. Hello.

>> Yeah, >> you've made a mess. And so you got to get the shovel out. The barn is full of poop. >> Today is J O. >> Yeah, there's some shoveling that needs to be done here. So, yeah, you got a mess. Wow.

>> Yeah. So, you do not get to as an adult,

boys and girls, ladies and gentlemen, um

do something that you saw on Tik Tok.

um that feels

fun or good or well suited whatever the

phrasiology we want to use is

when the mathematics around it don't math >> 100%. >> That that's called you know you you can't >> that's not reality. >> The math does not form to your desires.

No, >> the math does not form to your uh suited.

The math forms to the math.

>> The math when Sam and I were getting out of debt, uh we knew we wanted to start a business, but that takes time, right?

You got to build it up. And so in the meantime, you have to work and you have to do the things that close the gap so that the math maths so you can continue to accomplish your goals financially while you accomplish your goals career-wise. You have to do it all at the same time. You can't just go, "Well, I want to be an actress or well, I want to own a business and I'm not going to do anything until I have that success." That's not real. >> God designed me to be on the stage.

Good.

And in the meantime, >> that means you're also destined to wait tables.

>> That's what that means. >> Every time. >> I mean, we're in Nashville. How do you get the next country music stars attention? Uh, waiter.

That's exactly how you get it, right?

>> Yes. >> And so, I mean, you know, the the there's there's calluses that are involved in these things. Okay. >> Yes. >> You know, God designed me. I'm suited for. I'm good. Me, too. We all are

wonderfully made. We have these that that's why we have finding the work you're wired to do that we're going to send to Chris. Okay, that's all great, but you don't get to use this specialness >> that card >> to try to violate mathematics.

>> It it just it'll destroy your life. It's too harsh. It's mean out there, boys and girls. Mean out there.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. In the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Jade Washaw, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and author of a brand new book that lands in stores today. What no one

tells you about your money. She's my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Lann is in Indianapolis. Hi, Lannne. How

are you?

>> I am doing better than excellent, Mr.

Dave. How are you? >> Just the same. What's up?

Well, I got kind of an interesting one for you. Um, my husband and I run a

construction company together. He started the business in 2018 before we met, um, which was 2021, engaged in

2022, and married in 2023.

Um, I help him with some aspects of the business, but I'm not totally 100% full-time with it just yet. I still have a full-time job on the side or not on the side. It's the main job for me unfortunately. But um right now my

current access in our bank's finances for the businesses as a signer because the bank I guess needs me to be listed as an owner with the state which wasn't a problem until recently. My husband

wears many hats and doesn't need to take care of the minutia of running a business like fixing business associate

debit cards for our team members. So I

went into the bank to help an associate with their debit card fix their pen and I wasn't allowed to because I wasn't an owner. So I asked them what we needed to do. I needed to file through the state,

all that fun stuff. We asked our CPA, got some advice on what to do, and he told us the things that we needed to do.

One of those things was we needed to assign business ownership percentage.

Here's where my question comes in. As a married couple, um, following the biblical principles, I said 50/50

because we are one flesh. We do this thing together. Um, and that's just

where my mind and my heart was at. My husband has his business uh what I call

business glasses and hearing aids in. So his his mindset was thinking business and he came back with 5149

and that that didn't sit right with me.

We talked about it. Um something came up and we had to table it. And so um my

mind was kind of racing. I was emotional and so I went to the >> Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Yeah. Regardless of the percentage that's on the piece of paper, how will the two of you treat this business?

>> We treat it as we both own it.

>> Own it. >> It's You're going to treat it as 50/50 regardless of what's on the paper.

>> I bet. Aren't you?

>> Yeah. I mean, it's kind of what we do now. >> I kind of think you do now. I kind of think that's the way you're all both. You were in agreement until he went, "Well, that's a little weird." Okay. So,

I'll give you an example. I I we have several LLC's that I own 0%.

And Sharon owns all of it.

>> Oh, >> in case some idiot decides that Dave Ramsey's got a target on his butt and he finds an idiot lawyer to help him.

>> Makes sense. >> So, and you know how much I'm worried about that >> about about Sharon having a 100% of it?

Not at all. cuz I told her if she leaves I'm going with her.

>> Yes.

>> You're stuck together. Period.

>> That's it. So, I mean I I think the spirit of your marriage is really what matters in this discussion is what I'm saying, >> right? >> So, I couldn't care less what's on the paper. Um I think your 50/50 is the

spirit.

>> And when he said 5149, it violated your spirit. It's like what?

>> More than you were actually worried about him quote being in charge because

we all know he's not in charge. He's not doing the details. You are.

>> You already covered that.

>> Yeah. >> And he knows that, >> right? But it's as if he wanted to own own, you know, have that one little trump card somewhere in case he thought he could flex at some point. Haha, that's funny. But um you know, I mean, say this is kind of the way this went down. Am I missing something?

>> No, it was more so like he's uh he's been married before so he understands things happen and so his mindset was sort of protective mode.

>> Yeah. It won't matter if 41 5149

if if things go down u he's going to have to take care of you anyway and it's going to look suspiciously the same. And I had a

feeling this was going to be the answer because uh I I started thinking about it's like it's just it's it's splitting hairs because all I need to do is have some ownership to change debit cards.

>> Yeah. You already had practical

spiritual ownership and for that matter

legal because he would have had to deal with the asset if he owed 100% of it in the event of a divorce. It's got to be on the plate. Mhm.

>> It's up there for to get cut in half just like everything else is.

>> Just like his 401k has got his name on it if he works in corporate America. But guess what? You're going to take a big bite out of it in the event of a divorce. The wife is Hello.

>> Right. >> Even though your name's not on it. So that's the same exact thing.

>> So he's not he you don't get clear of the worst case scenario with this part of the discussion. you get clear of that this part of the discussion with a prenup if you want to go that way or a postnup in this case which is really hairy. So no I I I think as long as the

two of you are in spirit

we own everything together. We're doing life together. We're going forward together. I don't care what the paper says, >> right? And I mean does it really matter what the paper says? And the the other thought was in case something happens to him, continuing to let the business run smoothly as a 1% owner, I could still do that. >> Yeah. But I'm >> right now on that LLC I'm talking about, if uh my wife passes away in a car wreck, I don't have any ownership in that.

>> Now, I have a will and she has a will in an estate plan, it's instantly mine and I've got control over it. But I don't have >> the bank. I've got to take documentation to the bank to start cash and check. I'm on the checking account. But I mean, if I wanted to close that thing down, I've got to, you know, I've got to bring documentation and death certificates and stuff now because I'm not I'm not even on the ownership of it at all.

>> Right? >> So, I've still got all that crap to deal with. It's just it's just your worst case scenarios are always worst case scenarios. So the diff the big deal is are we okay in our marriage relationship

and are we aligned on how we view

marital assets that it's ours as you said and you you clearly articulated that Lan and beautifully by the way good job >> so I mean do you have Sam and you have a

business >> we do and there's things especially now that I'm not part of it that I'm not part of it but I also know that if something happened to him all of that. I would be able to have then have access to whatever it is and it would be willed to me and all. I know like he said 50/50 in spirit. I think what really bothered you is what Dave said that he said it in a technical way and it had you questioning if you guys view yourselves the same way.

>> Mhm. >> And I would just ask about that at that point. It's really not about the business. It's really not about the money or anything like that. It's just, hey, when you said that, that just that hurt my feelings cuz I thought that we were 50/50 and it kind of made it feel like you were going for some power there. >> Ooh, good call, >> you know. >> Yeah, it was kind of a flex.

>> Yeah, it was a little flex. >> I had this before I had you.

>> Sometimes you just got to flick it.

>> Woo! >> Flick it back down.

>> Oo, vicious.

[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music] [Applause]

Well, big news, guys. We mentioned it earlier. Jade Wshaw's new book, What No One Tells You About Money, is officially

here. You get your copy at $24.99 at ramiesolutions.com/store.

Jade, what's this book about? This book is helping you diagnose the emotions that have been keeping you stuck, running in the background that you didn't know were there. Things like anger and guilt and shame and frustration. I'm going to help you diagnose it, call it out, and then I'm going to show you the way through it so you can finally use those emotions to help you instead of hold you back. Get

your copy right now. Ramseyolutions.com/store or anywhere great books are sold. Becca

is with us in Denver. Hi, Becca. How are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> I had a strategy question. So, I am in baby step number two. I am 35, single,

um, paying off a good amount of debt.

Um, and I had a question about my student loans. Um, I'm about 46,500 in

student loan debt. >> Um, but they're technically in forbearance. Um, and I guess my question

is I I've seen some horror stories of,

you know, people opening up their student loan accounts and oh my gosh, they've doubled or whatever because of interest. Um, but my question is, is it

worth it to budget a, you know, a specific amount to my student loans, even though I technically don't have a minimum on them right now, and use

whatever that amount could be towards you, my my credit card is my big focus right now. >> Okay. Um,

I I get your concern, but you're not going to make any extra progress by doing that. you're gonna slow down your progress is all.

>> Yeah, >> the math is exactly the same.

>> Actually, it's a little better if you pay it on the credit card because the credit card is a higher interest rate.

So, if you're interest, let's say you were going to give a $100 to the student loan and the interest rate on it's 5%.

And instead, you put the $100 on the credit card and the interest on that's 24%. Well, obviously the $100, you know,

you you saved more interest by reducing the 24% account. agreed.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> Okay. So, it's it's mathematically incorrect to do what you're talking about. But I'm not as worried about that as I am that I just want you to pound that credit card with viciousness.

>> Yeah. >> And then get and then open up the smallest student loan and pound it with

viciousness when you get to it in the debt snowball. >> Yeah. Yeah. I Yeah. I'm about uh in

total in debt, I'm about uh 92,400

in debt. Um I have about 3,000 in medical from an ER visit.

>> Uh my credit my credit card is at like 165. My car is at 266 and student loans.

>> Uh I work in ministry. I make about $76,000 a year.

>> Got an awfully expensive car.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And >> yeah, I my car my car payment is like 543. >> What's your car worth?

>> Um, that's I I'm not good with car stuff

if I'm being honest with you. Uh, it's a 2021 Infiniti QX50.

>> That'd be my homework for you tonight is to go on Kelly Blue Book and see what it's worth and if it's, you know, if you if you're not,

get a hoopy for a while and start pounding and not have a $500 car payment

for a while. I don't want you to drive junk the rest of your life. But I'd love for you to drive junk so you could get rid of the rest of this junk >> because with that 543 back in your pocket, you'd be finished with that medical debt very quickly. >> Boom. Boom.

>> I and I have taken on um because I am serious about my credit card debt. I actually have two other with my full-time job. I actually have two other part-time jobs now. Um >> Wow.

like at the grocery at the grocery store just um you know doing some shopping and then uh I have friends who opened up a business so I'm helping them on the weekends. >> Good. So every month every month what are you bringing in? >> Do you know?

>> Um both part-time jobs I actually just kind of started. I'm hoping between the both of them per month I can make like maybe like 500 at one per month and then 600 at the other just because I'm just doing them on the weekend. >> Yeah, that's good. Okay.

So here's you're you're not afraid of hard work and you're focusing on this. These are all really, really good signs that you're going to win. Okay? And so what I'm trying to do is how quick can I plow through?

use to shovel $92,000?

>> Mhm. >> That's what I'm looking at. And so if I do $30,000 a year, it's three years.

That's 20 That's $2,500 a month.

>> Okay. >> If I sold the car, it's two years,

>> right? And that's how my brain starts thinking cuz I want to be free.

>> Cuz if you didn't have a single payment in the world, including these student loans hanging over your head that you're not making payments on right now, but you're worried about building up, but if you didn't have any of this in your background, and you your freedom in the

spirit to do ministry would be completely different. Would you agree with me on that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I actually like the thinking behind that, and I want to like double click on it. when you're looking at a high number of debt like in your case 92,000 some folks have 150,000 Sam and I had 400 you know 60,000 what you have to do is focus

on that monthly number because it's overwhelming to say I have $92,000 of debt I need to pay off but if you reverse engineer it and you've already done the math to say if I pay $2500 a

month I'm out in two years then the only thing you need to focus on is $2500 a month I got to make $2500 on the side jobs yeah The extra is what I'm saying.

>> Yeah, I'm saying. And we got,00 on the side job. So that means we only need out of our budget X and which means we might be able to do 3500, >> right? But that smaller number that's a lot easier for your brain to break down and go after than 92,000.

Do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Forget. >> So it's it's a it's a much it's a it's a easier it's easier to digest for you and then you can actually go for it. >> Then what we're going to do is we're going to get on a tight budget, increase income, which you've already done the increase income part. We're going on beans and rice, rice and beans.

Nothing on the student loans right now, and cut up the credit cards, and we're going to attack that smallest debt, which is probably one of those stupid little medical bills. We're going to pay off a whole bunch of those in month one.

And then in month two, we're going to start hammering this credit card like it's evil. And you're going to start seeing Samuel L. Jackson on the TV and start yelling at him. start yelling at him. What's in your wallet?

>> My wallet's got cash in it.

>> Hello. >> With my medical bills, with my medical bills, I'm actually um I'm not as worried as with the medical bills because my employer actually I have an HSA and they contribute to it very generously. So, I kind of not that I

don't count it, of course I do, but I'm like, "Oh, that's another account that I when the money comes in, then I just spend from that." >> When does the money come in?

>> Uh I contribute to it monthly. Um, and then they contribute a nice portion uh

quarterly. >> Okay. All right. So, >> a little free money. >> Yeah. We're still going to we're going to take that free money, but we're not going to wait on it 5 years. Okay.

>> Right. >> So, I want you to I still want you to clear those debts smallest to largest.

So, really, you get to screw around with this HOA stuff, HSA stuff about three or

four months, and after that, you need to just pay it off.

>> Mhm. >> Just get it done. Get it done. I am worried about all this.

I want it out of your life because I want you free, my friend. >> Yes. >> Okay. We're going to set you up with every dollar which will help you the budgeting app and it also it helps you walk through.

It's not just budgeting anymore. It's got all the stuff in it now and it's going to walk you through all the steps we're talking about. It's going to coach you along the way. It's very personalized now.

It's very the algorithm on it is incredible and it's all we're going to give it to you.

So you hang on, Becca, and Christian will pick up and get you signed up for every dollar and it's going to walk you through this whole process. So you're going to win because you're paying attention. Yes. You're not afraid of hard work and you're learning new things you never learned before.

>> You've been victimized by these things and instead you're going to turn around, put your thumb on the put your foot on the neck of it and say, "No more. No more. We're done." >> And you know, you got to stand on the neck of the snake and say, "You're done.

>> You don't have you don't have a shot anymore, buddy." >> Absolutely. Absolutely. I like what you

said about the I keep thinking about that when you're thinking about a grand total of debt. It helps so much to jump

into every dollar and do the financial road map so you can see the snapshot >> with what I'm earning now. How long will it take? And it might show you something like three or four years and you get to say that's too long. >> So I add the >> I'm going to add more money to it. And then when you get to >> it's too long I'm going to sell the car.

>> Yes. >> Or it's too long. I'm going to have a garage sale >> and reverse engineer it back. And then you can focus on what are the three things I do to get that money. I sell the car. I do the garage sale. And instead of focusing on, you know, $200,000 of debt and I'm stuck. >> I'm stuck. I'm stuck. Yeah. The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time.

That's exactly right.

[Music]

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ABCnews.com reporting. The stock market recorded st recorded stellar year-end returns for

2025 when the markets closed before New

Year's. Performance marked three straight years of double-digit gains.

The S&P finished up the year up 16%.

>> Oh, >> Jade, we often talk about around here how the only thing you hear on the news about the markets is bad news.

>> That's right. >> They never report good news.

>> So, let me give you the good news. Okay.

The stock market was up, the S&P in

2023, 26%.

>> The stock market was up in 2024,

25%.

The stock market was up in 2025,

16%.

That's a total of 67%.

in three years. That means three years ago, if you had $100,000 in your 401k in

a basic growth stock mutual fund, if you've added nothing to it, you now have almost doubled it at 170.

>> That's right.

>> That's not on the news.

>> No. And that's a lot of money >> that you missed >> because you were watching the news worrying about government shutdowns and

tariffs and artificial intelligence bubbles, whatever that is, and whatever

else it is that you believe that you're going to watch bad news for every day.

So meanwhile, I'm just the tortoise. I just keep investing every week, every day, every

month. I just put a little more in. A little more in. And all these years, 65

years old, I've been doing that over and over and over.

>> Not worrying about what the news said.

We've outlived the internet. We've outlived Sirius XM radio. We've outlived

Bill Donahue and Sally Jesse Raphael.

>> That's a blast from the past. >> Wow. I'm trying to think of weird stuff from the past. Yeah. And here we are.

And you know, you just keep investing and you just keep living and you keep and guys, you're not going to hear this on the news. Okay? The only thing you

hear on the news is when the whole world's coming to an end, right? And what happened to the stock market when the president did so and so or when he didn't do so and so or when Iraq did so and so or Iran did so and so or

name it and it's in the news and then oh the market the market the market up 16% last year 16%.

That means if it had done half, if you have a mutual fund that sucks so bad that your mutual fund did half as good as the stock market, you still did three

times what your high yield savings would have done.

>> It's a big deal. >> Smoke on that for a second. Okay. Hello.

This is a big deal, y'all. This is why you start investing, you keep investing, and you don't stop investing. And if you need to turn off the news, it's not a bad idea. And this is also why you get started on the things we teach so you don't miss out on stuff like this because the time is >> get your butt out of debt so you get to take advantage of this.

>> Yes, the time is passing >> cuz I mean if you got a million >> in there during this time >> it's looking nice.

>> Oh yeah. >> In three years on your million

>> sleeping. >> If you got 10 million >> Mhm. You just made $7 million

on your 10 million in three years.

Now, is that a guarantee? No. Is it going to happen in the next three years? No. >> But it explains why you're in such a good mood.

>> That and coffee. Yes. I love it. Oh,

that's fun. Tyler. Tyler's with us in Toledo. Hey, Tyler. What's up?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

So, my fiance and I kind of have a

interesting situation, I guess. We've been working a side hustle for uh about two years now um at our farm and she's

been the manager and I kind of just I get to do the fun stuff, sit on the tractor and drive around and pretend I can help him. Well, um,

so the previous owner passed away and now the son owns it and he's, you know, 18 hours away in Oklahoma. So, he's trying to sell it to us. So, it would be buying out the business and the house and we've been looking at houses.

>> I'm sorry. The the business is what? A farm. >> The It's a It's a horse farm. So, it'd be a boarding facility. We have >> Are you going to get the land?

>> Yep. We'd get the land, we get the house, we get all >> What is the land and the house worth?

>> About 3/4 of a million to 800,000.

>> Okay. And what does this business profit?

>> The profit right now is about 8,000 a month.

>> Okay. Right.

Um Okay. And what does he want to sell it for?

um hasn't given us a hard number yet.

We're still in the financial stages, the planning, beginning stages of it right now, but we're he's talking like 650 to

750. >> So, he's going to sell you a $750,000

piece of real estate for $650,000 and

give you a free business

>> pretty much. He just wants >> Why? >> That doesn't feel right. >> Why? Well, well, he wants us to have it and wants us to run it in, you know, under his dad's legacy and all that good stuff. And he's still got younger siblings in the area and >> Okay. >> Um, so let me let me poke let me poke a

second and make sure cuz when I hear something's too good to be true, you know what the saying is, right?

>> If something sounds too good to be true, it's because it's too good to be true. >> Yeah. >> So, >> is this land and house really worth this or are you just wishing it was?

No, that's I mean, you know, that's what Zillow says and that's what the last estimate was. Um I think five years ago.

>> Then then that means there's something on the business side that's Well, I'm not saying this, but it feels like something on one of these sides isn't performing the way it seems.

>> If if I mean, this guy really likes

y'all. He really likes you. Like $400,000 likes you.

Is that what I'm That's what I'm saying.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. No, I I hear what you're saying.

>> Okay. So, I I really want to dig into this if I'm you guys because I I if if

this is if these numbers are all accurate, this is a sweet sweet freaking deal. Okay. Now, how does he want to be paid?

>> That's what we're trying to figure out right now because we've been, you know,

planning our lives. We're supposed to be getting married in September of this year. >> Good. Um, and then we were planning on,

you know, buying a house. >> Yeah. Get married before you close this deal. If you're going to close this deal, get married before you close the deal. Now, the um the $8,000 a month

profit.

>> Is that after you're paid and your wife is paid by the old man that died?

>> That is after everybody's paid, all that

good stuff. >> And what do you get paid?

Um, well, right now I'm currently working for freeboard for my horse.

>> What were you getting paid when the old man was alive?

>> About $12 an hour just for barn work.

>> Okay. So, a month in a month you would make in a month you would make what?

>> Uh, we'll call it 500 bucks a month.

>> Nothing. Okay. And what is your wife being paid? >> Your fiance to be wife being paid?

She's making about three grand a month over there. >> Okay. So, let's pretend for a second.

Geez.

That you gave uh almost all of the profits from the business after you all live on 30 after you live on $40,000 a year, which is what you're making. Okay? and you live on the property and and you give the $100,000 a year roughly to the son

and we're going to give you almost all like 95% of the profit goes to you until

we get to 650. Would he do that deal?

>> I guess that would be something I'd have to bring up with him, but I would think so. >> That' be take you about six years to work it out. >> Mhm. >> You'd be able to make $40,000 for six years and then the whole thing would be free and clear.

>> Yeah. And that I wouldn't quit my full-time job either. My full-time job.

>> Oh, you have a full job.

>> Oh, yeah. I'm a I'm a brick layer. So >> Oh, I missed that part of the conversation cuz you didn't bring it up. Okay, >> even better. >> Yeah, I didn't bring that. This is This has been a side hustle for us.

>> I got you. Riding the tractor for the fiance is a side hustle. I got it.

>> You know what? And I also think this deal, if if he likes the sound of it, that's going to give you a good indicator if if those profit numbers are right. But if he's like, I would never do that deal, then I definitely want to dig deeper. a percentage of profit after you make enough to live on a healthy like all the profit almost until he gets his money and then he's done. And then if there's no profit, he don't get his money.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Lucas in Arkansas. He says, "How long is too long to save for a down payment on a house? We're expecting a baby soon and will go down to a one income once he arrives. Uh to purchase a modest but well-built home in our area, we would have to save over 120,000 as a down

payment in order to qualify with one income. We're debtree, but it will take us years to get there." Um, so there's

there's a couple things that I'm thinking about here. Um, when we teach the baby steps, baby step 3B is when

you're saving for a down payment. And then after that comes baby step four where you're investing your 15%. And I think Dave, what happens is people go, "Okay, I want to do 3B, but I don't want to sacrifice baby step four in the time in the market." Like we talked about the last segment. How do I kind of juggle that together?

Because the truth is obviously if you have focus and you take all the money you're going to put more money towards the down payment. But with a long horizon like this, do you want to really go 5 6 years or whatever the time frame is and not invest?

>> Probably once I got past the two I would say two to three years. Is that what you would say? Two to three years is when I'd say okay no more putting every dollar to the down payment. Now I'm going to split it and I'm going to try to do some towards retirement.

Not miss out there. And and I know that that's a sacrifice. We we rarely say to do multiple things at one time, but in this case, it's all good. >> Yeah, it's all good.

>> But the other thing, Lucas, is this. Um, >> you know, your income during that time is probably going to go up.

>> Um, your personal income, her income is going to disappear. Oh, wait a minute.

Maybe we don't need to do that exactly that way. If we want to buy a house, >> that's true. You can think >> maybe she needs to find some work athome type work, something that's flexible where she's home with the kid >> and does some work at home.

>> Well, uh, baby is sleeping and so forth.

>> And so, um, yeah, we need an alternative where mom creates an income >> and that that'll that'll change the picture, too. Um, and then of course

also u you know what you're saying is

here's the thing. You can't just yell at

the sky and say, "My wife's going to

stay at home and we're going to buy a house >> in our 20 in our 20s." >> In our 20s >> happen. >> Yes. It doesn't, you know, shazam. It doesn't work right. And so uh you you are making a choice and it's a good choice if you ask me to say mom wants to be

home with the baby.

>> That's a fine choice.

>> I would never shame you for that choice.

>> But it is a factor in an equation.

>> It's you just cut your freaking income in half. >> That's right. And so you are deciding

not to be able to afford a house as quickly >> because you're sacrificing one for the other. Or you could say the opposite of that, like a lot of ladies that work here at Ramsay full-time. I'm looking at several of them while I'm saying this, right? Jade, my daughter Rachel, and you

know, Kelly across the glass and so on.

We have kids. We are raising a family.

And we are professional ladies.

>> And um you know, we we work around that.

And that's it's not only for money, but it's also what you've chosen to do with your life. Okay. >> Uh it's also for money.

>> And so um I've noticed that we pay y'all. And so that kind of stuff. So >> it plays a big part. >> It's for money. Hello. So um you know,

and so I I think that's the thing. you you can just decide that that's what you're going to do. But by deciding that, you're also deciding some other things. >> That's right. >> There's some unintended consequences or they should be actually intended unintended consequences is my point.

>> You say by definition, >> I'm going to choose to live in that neighborhood >> because we have one income instead of this other neighborhood because we have one income or this other type of house or whatever, this nicer property, right?

Mhm. >> And by definition, we're going to have to buy something that's u a little different to get our foot in the door to get started on this home ownership thing because we're choosing to do this on one income. And I I don't think it's a bad thing, but you don't get to just say

I I do whatever I want >> and yell at the sky. You can't yell at the sky. It doesn't work. You know, you you still have to there's mathematics involved in all this. And it's it's um

you know the the this idea that when money is one place, it by definition can't be another place. It it's a fixed thing. It it doesn't it it doesn't float around. It's not omnipotent.

>> So, >> hey guys, speaking of homes, buying or selling is a big deal. The market is picking up. I predict a uh a robust

spring. Right now, we're sitting at about 5%, just a little bit over 5% on a

15-year fixed rate.

Julia is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hi, Julia. How are you?

>> Hi. Doing good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, my husband and I are starting Babyset 2 this month with $75,397 in debt.

Um, so when would it be most advantageous to refinance our balloon mortgage? >> Oo, immediately.

That's a panic. When is the balloon due?

>> So, uh, the balloon is up in 2029.

>> Gez. >> Um, so our current interest rate is 5.5%.

>> Yeah.

>> And if we refinance now, that'll give us about 6.6%.

>> No, it won't.

I just said just a moment ago, 15ear fix right now is 5%.

>> Really? >> Yeah. >> We've been watching. Wow. We've been watching the cuz we just did budgeted everything and we were googling the interest rates and it said 6.6 >> between. Yeah, it's going to be between 5.5 and 5.08.

>> Yeah. Right. Right. Right now it's it's hovering in the low fives for a 15-year fixed this week as you and I are talking. Now, I don't know when people are going to be listening to this particular version of the podcast, but yeah, at the moment you and I are talking, that's what we're looking at. So, call Church Hill Mortgage and talk to them about refinancing. If you roll 100% of your refinance, if you got a lot of equity, >> uh yeah, we have uh 100 to 12.

>> Just roll your refinance cost in and nothing out of pocket.

>> Okay. >> And get rid of this balloon cuz this thing's hovering over your head and you're just inviting you're inviting an earthquake in your life.

>> Okay? >> You know, you know, you ever heard the saying, if anything can go wrong, it will Murphy's law.

>> Yes. As you approach this balloon, >> if you leave the balloon in place, you increase the likelihood of

job loss, medical problems, all these

things that happen at exactly the wrong time, screw up your income, and keep you from being able to refinance and you lose the house.

>> Okay, >> that's what I don't want. Okay, right now everything's sitting pretty and sassy. Let's not do a bunch of little half percent math and try to screw something up here. Let's get rid of this danger that you've signed up for in your life. This is nightmarishly suicidal.

You've got to get this off your home before something happens and you're not able to >> right now while you can. It's called get it while the getting's good. Right.

>> Yes. >> Man, that stuff balloons scare me to death. Can y'all tell? >> Oh, yeah. >> I hear the fear in my voice. It turns into anger. Yeah. Oh, man. And I can't stand it because these people get stuck

and you know when we end up with them in financial counseling with one of our coaches is they're having to sit down because they are stuck and they lost a job or you know their sister got cancer or whatever and they've got all these income problems and credit problems and stuff's popped up >> or some kind of identity theft thing blew up their credit score taking them six months to get it fixed and they can't get refinanced in the meantime.

All this other crap happens just exactly at the time you're doing that. It's just a disaster. Oh, yucko. Yucko yucko.

Please act like your hair is on fire and get rid of that thing. Quick, quick, quick, quick, quick. You're scaring me.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and author of a brand new book that hits the streets today called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone Who's Been There. You do need a copy of this book. It's available today anywhere great books are sold.

John is in Los Angeles. Hey, John. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, uh, my situation, I'm trying to figure out, uh, the practicality of purchasing a home in or around the

Los Angeles area.

>> It's very, very expensive.

>> Um, I I think I do relatively well income-wise. >> What do you do? What do you make?

>> So, this year I made $200,000.

>> That's pretty good. >> Um, right around there. Yeah. And but even with, you know, that relatively high income, uh it still feels a bit out

of reach. Um in 2024, I I paid off

>> all of mine and my wife's uh student loans were 100% debtree.

>> Way to go. >> Um but >> yeah, but um that that down payment still seems like a little far-fetched.

And even if that is achieved, the monthly mortgage payments, like honestly, I mean, not regardless of the interest rate, but it's going to be a lot. Yeah. cuz uh you know the the fixer uppers out here run you about 850

or like 800 to 850. So, >> and that's no power.

>> Yeah, exactly. It's it's a very it's a it's definitely a fixer oper. And um kind of just trying to navigate.

>> What do you do for a living?

>> Um I am in sales for a large Fortune 10

company. >> Okay. Is it tied to Los Angeles?

No, it's not. >> Okay. So, why Los Angeles?

>> That's Well, sorry. I Let me Let me rephrase that. So, my my career is in Los Angeles. I am a I am directly correlated with my territory out here.

>> Oh, okay. Okay. That's what I was asking. Yeah. So, it is tied to Los Angeles. Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um well, I don't think you're the

the numbers that you're giving are uh wrong. And I think you've you've realistically assessed this and it's kind of like, well crap, I thought $200,000 a year was a lot of money, you

know, it's like, golly, this is weird.

And that's the way it feels. It feels that way to me every time I hear it. And it's still the the reality of the math is what you're giving me. And I I think you everything you said I think was the truth. I don't think there was anything as exaggerated or fatalistic or anything there. So um you know the the thing is

uh how old are you guys?

I'm 24.

>> Okay. All right. That's good news. Okay.

And what did And that the 200,000 includes your wife's income.

>> No, she stays at home. We had a child.

>> Okay. All right. So, it doesn't include her income. Okay. Good. All right. Um the uh So, that's your household income.

You're doing really well, man. For 200k, you're killing it. >> Um Yeah. So, you got um two or three

options or ways of looking at this. And that is one, you could say, okay, I'm in Los Angeles for a while. This is my adventure. Probably not going to spend my life here. And so if I rent for three or four years and see how the career thing goes, that's not the end of the world.

>> And then you end up moving to a market that you can actually afford and hopefully you can make the same kind of money somewhere. Okay, that's that's one thing that could happen. Okay, another thing that could happen is you say, "Okay, I'm going to scratch and claw and I'm going to buy this little dinky house for $800 or $900,000. It's a fixer upper

to at least get my foot in the door >> and then at least I own something, right? And at least then as as as as prices go on up, I get to ride the wave instead of being crushed by the wave. Right. >> Right. >> So you you you you sacrifice

uh home ownership being like a dream come true. Instead, it's like barely

getting in. >> And even still, you'll still have to embrace a bit of a a timeline on this.

>> Yeah. And just knowing that going in so you can set realistic expectations on both sides, what you'll get for the money and how long it'll take you to get the money to get it. >> And that's an okay strategy as well. And it might be two or three years.

>> That's not the end of the world. >> It's not the end of the world. Okay. >> Yeah. The other strategy, the other strategy is to start thinking about, okay, where do I want to live >> where I can buy a piece of real estate because I can't buy a piece of real estate in Los Angeles because you literally live in one of the easily top

five most expensive cities in the world.

>> Yeah. I mean, can you just realistically speaking as I mean, you're making 200,000 between you and your wife. Can you guys live on half that? Can you live on 100,000?

>> Yeah. So, um, we can, but and the

200,000 I do want to specify is before taxes. And, um, >> and we're talking I'm talking round numbers with you. >> If you start if you start chunking somewhere around 100 grand away though, you'd have 300 grand away in three years. That's what she's saying.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We can we can live on half that >> because that's what you're looking at. I mean, I'm just and again, I'm round numbering this. I'm just plugging it in.

So, I'm looking at it with you. But if you commit to a three or four year journey on this and do what Dave said, I definitely think that's worth it cuz again, you're getting your foot in the door and you're climbing you're climbing the ladder at that point, the real estate ladder. >> And I don't think the the LA real estate is bad. I think it's excellent.

It's just really expensive. It's just really expensive. I mean, it's that simple, you know? >> For sure.

And and also like my career is here and I could see like a lot of positive career growth like in this area. Yeah.

>> Yeah, it's practical to stay for a while. >> It might not be your 10year dream career, though.

>> Yeah. >> You know, it might be. It's okay if it is. And if you got a lot of growth and you know, that's the other thing. If your career continues to hockey stick, I mean, dad gum, dude, you're 24, you're killing it at 200 grand. That's amazing.

>> Yeah. >> You're stud. Okay. So, I mean, what if you went to 300 and then 400? Well, these numbers all start to change real fast, >> very quickly. That's right. >> So, I don't I don't know what your comp schedule is or what this thing looks like on your career, but >> you're an impressive young dude. I know that. >> I got to believe he's making more in three to four years from now. >> I think he is. And I think also that you've done a very dispassionate, logical,

there's no shaking your fist at the sky.

>> He's looking at it for what it is. >> I'm mad. This is not fair. There's nothing none of that tone in what you're doing, which is the the first clue that you're actually going to make it probably. >> Yeah. He was not very emotional.

>> No, he's not. But there's no there's no like this isn't fair. It's like, you know, we get that a lot, you know. It's like But I understand it's not fair, but I can't you know, your feelings don't >> The math your math doesn't care about your feelings, you know. So that that's the thing. So I I think you're sharp young dude. I think you're going to get there. Um, and I would just sit right

I'd sit tight, start saving some money and just monitor your career and monitor the market and save like a crazy man and get your foot in the door. >> And what you said just then is so so true because yeah, he wasn't he wasn't emotional. He wasn't whining. But a lot of people they do they look at the numbers and it feels overwhelming to them. So they don't even start, Dave.

But if you just start putting aside >> or worse, they ignore the math and go buy something that crushes >> even worse. >> Crushes them >> even worse >> because it's just not fair.

Home ownership is not reachable with reasonable. Ramsay's not right. Not reasonable. Oh crap. It ain't got anything to do with Ramsay. >> Just start. >> You know, it's got to do with you.

>> I've already got my house. It's not to do with me. It's got something to do with you. >> So, what are you going to do? Are you going to crush yourself because you had a little temper fit on the candy aisle and buy something you can't afford? That that drives me nuts. Please don't do that. >> He's the opposite end of the spectrum. This young stud is he's got it going on now. Like this guy, he's going to win.

[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

Mike's in San Diego. Hey, Mike. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[Music] Mike,

I didn't push the button. Is that what you're saying? All right. I didn't push the button. Thank you. >> Goodness. You'd think I know how to do this by now after 40 years. Hey, Mike.

How are you? >> Hey, I'm I'm doing great. How are you?

>> Well, I'm kind of challenged right now, but other than that, what's up?

>> Well, um I had a question kind of honestly not kind of similar to the guy before, but um I'm 25 years old. Um I

live in San Diego. Also work a job in software sales. And about 18 months ago,

I started a side hustle that's kind of taken off a bit. And I'm really kind of looking for some guidance, I guess, from an entrepreneurial perspective on like

when I should maybe consider doing that full-time versus um trying to rack up as

much income as I can. >> Good for you. So, what's it doing? How much you're making on the side hustle?

>> So, I started it in summer 2024.

>> Mhm. >> Didn't really do much the first six months. Maybe like 5,000 in profit.

>> Mhm. >> Uh last year we did 68,000 in profit.

And then this year I think we'll do about 100,000 maybe 120.

>> What do you make at your day job?

>> Um about 175. I'm soft.

>> Thank you. I'm in software sales. So some years it's 150, some years it's 200. >> Yeah. >> It can just vary. >> Yeah. And you're So you're 25 and between the two you're making 300 grand.

You're killing it, man.

>> Proud of you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. So how much time does the side hustle take?

>> That's the thing. like it takes me probably I want to say 20 to 30 hours a week. My average day kind of looks like working on the business maybe from about 5 to 8:00 p.m. I'm fortunate enough to where I work remotely to where Yeah.

>> Um I can just kind of log off and start working on that.

>> Are you married?

>> I'm engaged. >> Okay. All right. Wow.

>> Yeah. >> It's kind of ideal right now. I mean, you're just stacking cash.

>> Yeah, pretty much. I've been able to sock a good amount of money away.

>> Yeah. >> If if you worked double the hours, would you make double the money? Is it that cut and dry?

>> Um not not exactly. So the the business is very >> um online focused like it's it's very dependent on Facebook actually.

>> So um essentially >> what do you think the shelf life of the new business is? How long you think it's going to last before some platform takes you out or a shift a shift in technology

or something? Yeah, that's a good question. Honestly, I I'm pretty optimistic about Facebook and the way they're kind of investing.

I would say that I mean conservatively

10 or 15 years, but um you know, who knows, right? Like Google >> I'm 100% 100% sure that Google and Facebook are

going to do one thing. Take care of Google and Facebook, >> right? >> And they don't give a crap about you. I can promise you. Okay? So, you need to be defensive about your platform usage

and don't think that they're on your team, okay? Because u about the time you

get something figured out, they turn it and screw you. I mean, we've been playing with these guys for 15 years since they started. I mean, I've been doing from the time back when SEO was a thing, you know, and not even exist anymore. So, um you know, whatever by by the time you get it figured out, they figure out a way to monetize everything you've been doing and then they flip it on you.

So, I'm not cynical. I'm just telling you, you need to be realistic about your platform life uh blood. And it ain't 15 years. I'm not going to There's no way.

Not without you iterating substantially. Now, it doesn't mean you're going out of business, but you're not going to do it the way you're doing it, >> but probably 36 months and then they're going to change something. So, okay, cool. That's still awesome, man.

Uh get off get off my entrepreneurial cynicism, but the uh um >> All right. Uh D.

>> No, I just feel that

if I had more time and energy to put into the business, I could scale it um nonlinearly, if that makes sense.

>> Yeah, it does. Yeah. >> And I believe I believe you. I think you're right. >> We have a lot of systems in place that kind of run the business itself, but it is it is a volume game.

>> Yeah, sure. Um, so I think with more time and attention I could get it to a point to where it's making more. Um, >> then you'll hit the point of diminishing returns curve on their time as well. But I do think you can make what I think you could easily make I don't even know what you're doing.

Okay. But it just sounds like the trend line on this. You could make what you're making now if you went full-time. >> Which I'm just curious on where your passion lies.

Did you start the side hustle out of money or I just really like this field. I want to see if I can make uh do something in it and possibly make some money.

>> Um, it's it's just honestly like a passion thing. Like it's it's actually adjacent to my career. So, I'm actually doing the thing that a lot of my clients are doing >> in my uh career side. And honestly, I just kind of listen to them talk about what they were doing right and what they were doing wrong and it kind of inspired me to do my own version of it.

>> So, if you there's no ethical breach in that at all. >> No, no. It's it's completely independent from what they're doing. It's It's just a variation of it.

>> I got you. Just best practices.

Okay. >> Pretty much. Yeah. So, I mean, it kind of sounds like to you like I mean, it would be my dream to really be able to do it full-time, but awesome.

>> I definitely understand. >> When are you when are you getting married? >> Uh, next year. Like maybe 13, 14 months.

>> What's she make?

Um, she is actually I talked her into

helping me with the business about six months ago, which is why we saw um such strong growth. >> Hm. And so is she doing that full-time?

>> Yeah. >> Oh, interesting.

>> Yeah. So, she was working as a like a web designer. >> Uhhuh. >> Um, and I told her she wasn't she was doing it like contract freelance work.

Wasn't enjoying it too much. And I said, "Hey, I'm really time locked here with

uh with my job, but I really believe in this and I think you have the skill." >> What could you hire someone to do what you're thinking about doing? What would it cost you in addition to her?

>> I'm not sure. I think that I've had experiences hiring people on Fiverr where they'll kind of take what you're doing and try to compete against you with it. >> Um I'm not sure we have the capital to go out and hire somebody like W2. Um

>> yeah, you do. You got 100 grand.

>> Well, I was going to say you paid yourself that. Did you pay her anything or that's part of the 100 grand?

>> Yeah. So, right now we're I'm basically splitting it. So, she's getting 50 and then I pay myself 50 and kind of run the expenses out of that. >> All right. Um, so I love where you are.

I love what you're doing. I love that you're thinking about it logically. Um, I think you guys are a power couple. So, you're not there's not a screw up.

There's no uh no no uh check the box in the stupid column here. None of that's going to happen. Okay. It's only a question of what you want to do and what is best. All right. So, one idea that

popped into my head, if I were sitting exactly where you are, and I'm very entrepreneurial and I'd rather work for myself than anybody cuz I'm too contrary to work for somebody. So, um, one idea

that popped in my head is let's just

burn the midnight oil until we get married. >> I love that idea. and just crank this thing and see how high a stack of cash.

Let's fill a bedroom full of cash over there. Okay? >> Mhm. >> Just make some money. Okay? And during

that time, you can start to see what some of the trend lines are in the platforms you're using and if your prediction or my cynicism, which one is more accurate? Um, and and and you know,

if you do that and you turn it on, you come back from the honeymoon and you just made 200 grand on this thing and you want to punt the day job and go on, then go on. >> And if the whole thing crashes in two or three years, you got a bedroom full of money and you made some money and you could go do it again. You go do something else because there's something you The beautiful thing about this is you can land like a cat on carpet when you're done because you've got the skills.

>> Yeah. Honestly, I love that idea. I've really been going back and forth between like I got a good job, I want to keep it. People tell me like it's a dream job, but also like I have on the other end. >> I mean, you know how to do that job.

>> It'll be waiting there if you ever want to go back to it. And you're at a great time of life where you can do exactly what Dave said. You're not married yet.

You guys are in that time of adventure where it's like, you want to go? I want to go. Let's go do it. >> Let's let's scramble here. >> We'll eat peanut butter and jelly. Yeah. Like we'll do whatever we need. >> DZ. Let's make hay while the sun shines, baby. you know, and let and you know, after the marriage, quit if you if you make a bunch of money, >> you know, I mean, you got to be making about what you're making or more, >> but if you are, then quit.

>> The downside of both of you doing this is if it goes sideways, your whole freaking deal goes sideways.

>> Your lack of diversification on your income base is a little scary, but it's okay. I think you got the margin to handle all of it, and I think you're on top of it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Logan is with us in Louisville. Hi, Logan. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm great. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I am 26 years old and I bought my

first house last May whenever I was 25

years old. And I'm kind of realizing that I probably made a very big mistake

because I bought it on a 30-year uh mortgage uh with 5% down at 6 and 12%

interest. And I'm wondering what I should do.

>> Okay. Is the home affordable?

>> It is. Um it was $220,000

>> and uh the mortgage is 1623 a month.

>> And what's your household income? Uh, so I make $65,000 a year uh last year and I

I work at a major auto factory in Louisville. >> Sure. >> And um I will be eventually making $100,000 a year in about a year and a half or two years or so according to our union contract.

>> Uh and so I'm basically one I never heard. >> No sir. I do live with my girlfriend however. >> Okay. um because she had to drop out of

college and um her parents are aren't

really uh supporting her financially and she didn't really have another option other than she had to e either move in with me or it was be homeless. So, uh I went ahead and moved her in and so she has about $10,000 in student loan debt and then I additionally have about $12,000 on an auto loan.

>> Okay. Well, you there's no we she has her life, you have your life. you're not married and so you're you have $12,000 in student loan, you have $12,000 car payment and you have a house payment that is tight right now. Okay. So, I I

don't I don't think I would do anything. I think I sit right there. Um what I would do is as your income goes up and you need to clear this car debt off when those two things happen and these interest rates continue to go down, I would just refinance. And when you refinance, put it on a 15.

>> Okay? But, you know, you're going to get down sub fives probably this spring.

>> Okay.

So, refinance to the 15.

>> When when you can afford it. I don't I don't know when your income's going to go up. You can't afford it right now.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. So, when do you think you're going to be, you know, move making the move from 60 towards 100?

>> Uh, so we go up on a yearly basis. I'll be getting about a 10% raise in May.

>> Okay. It's probably going to be the following May before you start talking about refinancing. You're probably you're probably in coast mode.

>> Okay. And then I actually have a lot of uh uh retire in my retirement account and then I've got some in an index fund that's not in a retirement account.

>> Pay off your car today. >> Question. >> What's in the index fund?

>> Uh almost 14,000.

>> Pay off your car. Pay off your car today. >> Pay off the truck completely. >> Yes. Today.

>> Okay. Got it. I was thinking you were going to say that. Yeah.

And then let's build our emergency fund. And as far as the house, we're going to sit with the 30 and we're going to sit with the 6 1/2 until the rates drop and your income comes up and you can afford to refinance. And it's not going to kill you. We're talking about 18 24 months here.

And you know, you'll be okay. It, like you said, it isn't what I would have signed you up for, but you're there now. And there's no there's no panic in these numbers.

It's just a a good lesson learned for next time you want to make a large purchase to wait till you're in a better position. >> And don't be combining finances with

girlfriends only with wives.

>> Yes. Uh yes. I'm not even going to get into that. There were some things there.

>> Yes, there was some things there. Some things there. Britain is in San Antonio.

Hi Britain. How are you?

>> Howdy, sir. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

So, I um I'm in a little bit of like a

family pickle. I I have a brokerage

account that was gifted to me for college graduation that has about 13,000 in it. >> Um but based off the previous gentleman,

you just told him to liquidate stuff and pay off the car today. I have a $7,000 car loan um for my wife's car. I have a

$25,000 car loan for my truck. And I

have about 40k in student loans putting us at about what's that 70 75k cumulative debt. >> Yep. >> Um and my gross income is about 100k a year. >> Um my wife and I have been married four years. We got a 2-year-old and we got a baby in March. >> Y'all are normal.

>> So >> And you figured out normal is not fun.

>> Yeah. >> No, I'm I'm tired of thinking, "Oh yeah,

I make 100 grand a year and ago >> and I'm broke." Yeah. >> Right. Right. Yeah.

>> So, >> yeah. >> So, you got your first piece of advice, which is to liquidate uh that non-retirement savings. That gets you the 13,000. So, her car is paid off and you're able to put a little onto the truck. Um, what does she drive? I'm just curious.

>> She drives a 2019 Jetta. Um, that's I

don't know, probably got 78,000 miles on it. It's in really, really good shape.

>> What about your truck? What how good a shape is that in?

>> Uh, it's in really good shape. It's a 24

Silverado I bought with 2500 miles on it. Um, with a little gift from her grandpa to >> really knock down my payment. So, I only pay 500 bucks a month for it.

>> Only 500 bucks.

>> Yeah, >> that's a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. For I thought it was great for basically a brand new truck, but I mean, hindsight's 2020.

>> Um, but I I drive a lot for work, so I've depreciated. Yeah, I've got I put on like >> means you're destroying the value of a brand new truck. >> You are. Listen, you're going to have to put the pedal to the metal on this debt.

Um I want you have a great income, so that's good. But what's going to get you is this these 40,000 of student loans.

It's easy to let that sit around and collect dust. But this is the time, you

know, to to kick it up into high gear. I want you and your wife to get into every dollar. Have you have you jumped in there yet? I have not jumped into every dollar, but I um we use uh like Rocket Money and we

sat down and did our financial planning for the year. >> Well, there's the problem right there.

>> I'm playing with you, but I'm going to give you a budgeting app that's actually going to help you and it's not going to sell you debt products along the way.

So, Christian will pick up and make sure that you get every dollar. And I mean it. I'm not just, you know, trying to be funny towards a competitor. I'm saying that if you go into every dollar, their goal is to get you out of debt.

>> Yes, ma'am. the other budget you're using, that's not their goal. Their goal is just to keep you around as a customer. Later, they can sell you debt.

We want to get you out and therefore in the app, it's going to ask you things about your life and you're going to be able to plug that in and then it's going to walk with you. You called into us to talk to us for a hot two two or three minutes. It's going to give you the advice we would give you step by step along the way so that you stay focused and actually get this done.

>> Very good. Bobby is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Bobby. What's up?

>> Hey, how y'all doing? >> Great man. How can we help?

>> Um, I have a weird question I haven't heard before on your show. I have a minor son. Um, he received a $15,000

settlement from an accident he was in.

>> And I'm court ordered to put it into a

federally insured bank until he reaches maturity. >> Y, >> which is in 12 years.

>> And I'm struggling to pick where to put it because returns are trash. Yep. And

>> which means the court is stupid >> and the court generally is stupid. It's what happens when lawyers do financial planning. >> Lawyers that become judges that are stupid. Did I mention this is stupid?

But you're still court ordered.

>> You're court ordered. It's aggravating as crud. >> Um yeah, you you you can't do what you should do with it, which is put it in a decent growth stock mutual fund. >> That's terrible. >> You can't do it. So you're going to be in a high yield. You're going to be a high yield savings account at your local credit union or bank that's got federal insurance and you're barely going to keep up with inflation.

>> Exactly. I mean, everything I'm seeing is like one less than 1%.

>> Oh, no, no, no. You can get three right now. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You get some high yield savings up around two, two and a half or three, >> but um >> it's still a it's crime. It's a crime.

>> It's still a crime. It's still a crime, but um I mean the whole thing was this kid got hurt and somebody's trying to take care of him here and then the judge is an idiot. So, yeah.

>> Well, I mean, the good thing is he currently have we have some sizable money for him and our daughter currently, but it would be really nice to add this to it. >> Yeah, I would. >> Is there a I'm just asking, is there a way that you could get a a lawyer in order to to change that? >> Yeah, but I'm not sure. I mean, if if you went from two to >> 10 or 2 to 12, okay, you make 10%, you

make 1,500 bucks, I won't pay the lawyer. >> So, it's not worth it. It's just the stupid law. I mean, it's not even the law. It's just a judge that doesn't know what the crap they're doing.

>> They don't They thought you were They thought you were going to take it to Vegas and put it on red, >> you know. >> Let it run. >> Yeah. Run it. Run it. That's what they thought. But, you know, Nah, that's sad.

Yeah. You're just going to have some money parked there and kids going to have 15 grand. Was not going to grow much.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.comrealestate.

[Music]

Proverbs 14:15 says, "The simple believe

anything, but the prudent give thought to their steps." Albert Einstein said, "We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we use to create them." >> There we go. Anthony is in Orlando. Hi, Anthony. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All righty. So, I came to ask you about a financial decision I'm going to make.

So, me and my fiance um are having a

baby together, and the baby comes here in 2 months, and she currently has a car payment that

is 26

grand.

And um it's roughly $800 or more a month. O

>> and um we're deciding whether to try to

refinance it and me I looked it up and everything and looked into it a little bit more and it said she says she owes around only 17 for the car and then the rest is mainly like dealership fees and

coverages and stuff. And um I was

wondering if it would be necessarily a good idea to refinance it and then just

attack it and pay it off.

>> Yeah. What do you make, sir?

>> Um I make roughly 30 grand a year.

>> What does she make, sir?

>> Um I'd say maybe like 1820 a year.

>> Okay. All right.

Um, and you you guys are 24.

>> Uh, 23. Yes, sir. >> 23. Close. Okay.

Um, all right. Can Can I love you enough to tell you the whole thing? Will you allow me to do that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. If I were your age or you were my

son who's 20 who's older than 23

um now um and you were to ask me this

question um I here's what I would tell you to do okay in detail and there's a

lot of reasons for this and I'll give you the reasons too okay but the first thing I would do is get married by Friday >> okay because you don't need to be doing financial transactions and babies with people you're not married to it does not lead to prosperity and it does not lead to a wonderful life.

The data on this there's piles of

research that show that that this that

this is a really really good suggestion.

Okay. So, so I'm meddling in your

business. Okay. I want you to get things in the right order from this point forward. >> So, get married by Friday and then sell the car.

You can't afford the car.

You guys don't have any money. You don't make much money. And you have a brand new baby coming. And you're so broke you can't see with an $800 payment.

>> Yeah. >> It's killing you, isn't it, man?

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. You got to sell this car. So, call

or have her call and get the payoff number on the car. or what it takes to pay it off today and then find out what

the um Kelly Blue Book value of the car is. And I hope you can sell it for enough to get out of it. I hope you're not I hope she's not upside down in it.

And for that matter, since you're her new husband by Friday, >> hope you're not upside down in it >> cuz you're going to be joining this party. But you guys got to this thing is a weight around your neck during what should be with a baby on the way in a new marriage, the happiest time of your life. This car is a nightmare.

And there's no refinancing. It doesn't get rid of it. It's got to go away. And

then get you the cheapest something that you can drive that'll run and start your life off like broke people like I did and Sharon did and Jade did and Sam did

>> and most of the people listening did. Um that's where that song, we ain't got money, honey, but we got love. That's where that comes from. Okay. And um you

know and so you know you start with that and then you start working on your careers and both of you get your incomes up because both of you's job sucks

>> and let's get our incomes moving >> and and then we start talking about buying a little better car, a little better car, but we're doing this as a couple with a new baby. That's a wonderful gift >> and let let's let's move forward. Um and

those are the things that will cause you prosperity.

Um the the there is a there's a whole piece of literature out there folks, a whole piece of research out there that is done multiple times in multiple different veins that talks about what's called the marriage advantage.

And um for instance, males live 7 to n

years longer that are married than unmarried males. Just an advantage.

females live on average five years longer that are married. So that that's

the physical one of the physical aspects of it. >> People survive cancer at a 20% higher

rate that are married.

Isn't that weird?

>> Okay, there's all kinds of data out there on this stuff. The net worth of someone in their mid30s at 35 years old, and this is not me talking to you, Anthony, this is me talking to everybody out there. The net worth of someone in their mid30s right now is 10 to 11 times

higher for a married male than an

unmarried male at 35 years old. That's

at 35 years old.

>> That's interesting. Crazy interesting.

>> And it's got to do with a lot of different factors. The, you know, but one of them is is that we're joined and we're committed and we're not got one foot in a boat, one foot on the dock. Mhm.

>> And it changes the dynamic of how you do your career, >> of how you do relationships, of how you do money, >> and it changes the whole thing. And so >> that makes sense. >> You're always going to get that at Ramsay, by the way. We're always going to be proponents.

>> We're going to tell you every time cuz we love you to get married.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. There's a lot of research out about uh the quality of your relationships and how they affect your longevity, uh how they affect your mental health. It only makes sense that it would affect your money in a similar way. >> Absolutely. It it affects it dramatically. Affects your income.

>> Absolutely. >> Oh man. The the the amount of money that a lady makes more that is married in her

30s than an unmarried lady. Really wild.

>> That's very interesting. >> And the the interesting dynamic of that is is that sometimes the unmarried ladies saying, "I want to be independent." >> Isn't it? I mean, you know, and yet the and it ends up on average >> making considerably less >> on average. >> So, I don't I don't know exactly what that is. And the guys make more, too, by the way. >> It's not it's not uh u but it's just it's a dynamic in our culture and the way people's um neurosystems work and

the way our relationships work and then it plays out in the math.

>> That's what it comes down to. So, that would be my advice to you, sir. um if

you since you allowed me to love you and be direct, I'd be married by Friday. I'd get this car on the market and get it sold and both of you look for better jobs. And uh let's get you let's get you up there where you're making a little bit more than 40 or $50,000 a year between the two of you. >> Below average household income >> and a baby on the way.

So let let's get this thing moving, buddy. You can do this. You're not a dumb guy. You can do it.

And you're not afraid of hard work either. So you can do this. And you called a show like this. So, I know you can do it.

I mean, >> they're just getting started.

>> Yeah, absolutely. They can do this. And so, there's great hope. Um, and guess

what? If you've if you've done anything out there that you wished you hadn't done, bought a house, bought a car, >> um, you know, whatever it is you wish you hadn't done. You know, a lot of it can be undone. >> Yeah. >> Or a lot of it can be survived. Just don't keep repeating it. So, I I've about decided at my age, since I'm old now, that uh people say, "Well, you're wise." is what I'm saying. Yeah. You know where wisdom comes from? Bad judgment.

>> Yes. >> You know, and doing stupid doing stupid butt stuff. And I The only thing I have done right is I seldom do the same stupid thing. >> I I find new ones to do, >> but I seldom do the same stupid thing.

And if you get a whole bunch of stupid things in your past that you never do again, then people start calling you wise. >> Yeah. >> And so that that's really what it comes down to. A whole bunch of things I avoid doing now that all of a sudden it makes you look like you're smart.

>> It's a success thing. You're standing on a pile of failures. >> Exactly. It's exactly what it is.

Good qu good good point. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

[Music]

Heat. Heat.

[Music]

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## 174. The Payment Mentality Is Keeping You Broke | April 14, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform [music] your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

And I am Rachel Cruze [music] hosting at this hour with my good friends and co-host of SmartMoney Happy Hour, George Kamel. And we are taking your [music] calls live at 888-825-5225.

[music] So, give us a call.

All right, kicking us off this hour in Austin, Texas, we have Tracy on the line. Hi, Tracy.

Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great. Thanks for calling in. Yeah, absolutely. How can we help today?

Um so, long story short, we've had some

um financial losses that were out of our control. You know, our income has gone down, our costs have gone up. Um we've

blown through all of our savings trying to, you know, stay afloat. Uh went to credit cards to um you know, for all of our business business expenses, our household expenses, all of those things. Um and we're we're still behind, borrowing from family, all of the things. Um right now, we are running at about a $5,000 deficit a month even uh you know, all

things considered. And we're I'm just trying to figure out, you know, do we

you know, at what point do you give up and file bankruptcy? You know, do we keep trying to dig out of this? Like, what is the smartest path forward with everything that's happened? So, >> What do you guys make? What are you bringing in a month? Um we It's It's variable. So, it's about

um 12 to to 17, uh but 250 a year on

average. Okay, and you're and you are So, you guys make $250,000 a month or I'm sorry, I'm sorry, a year? Yes. And and you're still behind $5,000

a month. What are you guys spending your money on? Well, um a lot of it is going toward credit cards. So, about $4,300 a month is

credit cards and fees. Unfortunately, a bunch of our cards are, you know, 12 to

30% interest. So, I've reached out to them um for their hardship programs and tried to get the interest down so that we're able to tackle more of the debt.

What part of this wasn't in your control? You were saying something about how it's not it wasn't in your control.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of our companies that we run, um someone had embezzled money from us um and it took away about

70 or 80% of our income. How much money are we talking? Um they embezzled about 1.6 million um

Oh my gosh. total, yeah. Are they in jail? No. No. Uh the it happened in a big city and they have bigger fish to fry. So, um What do you mean? You didn't press charges?

Uh it's it's it's all

I don't know how much I can say.

Um they're they're working on it um but >> you have an attorney?

Yes. Yes, we've got an attorney that's that's working on it for us um You acted like you're like, "Well, it's it's water under the bridge. We're moving on. Big city, what can you do?" No, we had investors um and it was our investors' money that was in It was a whole situation, but um Okay.

So, it wasn't your money to begin with. You didn't go into debt 1.6 million. No, no, no, no, but um we managed that fund and when the fund disappeared, our income disappeared. Um so, we, you know, we've taken on additional jobs.

um business expenses that we didn't need, you know, sold assets that weren't performing. Um you know, so we're, you know, selling everything that, you know, the like Yeah. the saying? I sell so much the kids think they're next, so >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so what other debt do you guys have, Tracy? I'm just trying to figure out where where $15,000 a month is going. How much is your How much is your mortgage? Um the mortgage is 5,500.

Um we did take out some of our equity to try to pay down um pay down our assets, so or our our jet.

So um the the home is worth about 700

and we owe about 550 on the on the mortgage, so. Okay.

>> Um so was that a HELOC you took out or a home equity loan?

>> Yeah, we refinanced. Um and then we've got about 3 to 5,000 dollars a month that's going out in expenses for um the businesses that we run out of our home. So we've got um you know, the

4,300 in in debt service, um you know,

13 to 14,000 dollars in monthly expenses, kids in college, you know, all of all of those things, um you know, tuition and rent, and then our business expenses. So it comes out to about 20, 000 dollars a month. >> your business expenses, Tracy, not within side the business? Why is that coming out of your your income?

Well, it it it's kind of all in one lump now, like

because we're just trying to keep everything um current, so I like I'm not

even taking a a paycheck >> and you have a personal checking account and you're paying business expenses from the business checking? Yes, everything's coming from the business account. I'm not taking a a paycheck from >> three to 5,000 on business expenses is coming out of a business account that has nothing to do with the 12,000 you're bringing home every month, correct?

Sure. Okay. I mean I yeah, and I would separate it. Okay, so then you got kids in college. Yes. Um are they working?

Um no, having good number >> Talk directly in your phone, Tracy. We're having a hard time hearing you. Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry. Um they've uh we've got scholarships and grants. Um so there's not a lot that's coming out.

It's about $1,700 a month left over in in tuitions and fees, but they are applying for scholarships like it is their full-time job.

>> Okay. And what's the total amount of debt you guys carry outside of your mortgage? Um so the total the total debt we have

some unpaid taxes. So it's hovering at

about $270,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> the business?

Um yeah, those are uh business >> that out. What what is just So just credit cards just credit card is 152.

Um we owe we owe family 30.

Um and then we owe 88 in back taxes. Um

we had an employee that said she was filing them and she did not. So we've had some some things pile up. So we're just trying to doggy paddle through and and figure it out.

>> key's going to be just debt snowballing this, listing it all out, smallest to largest balance, and attacking the smallest one with a vengeance, and just keeping up with minimum payments on the rest. But the income needs to go up and expenses need to continue to go down even just to work the same plan. >> Tracy, the the way to do it and and it's going to be harsh, but you guys have to make a list of everything and when the money runs out, the money runs out and we stop. We do not continue to borrow from on credit cards.

We don't continue to borrow from family.

utilities, transportation, you get your four walls, you pay your insurance, all right. Everything else below is a want. Like kids in college, sorry kids, mom and dad are broke. We're on the we're on the brink of bankruptcy.

We can't keep paying your rent. Like we're done we're we mathematically we can't keep up our lifestyle. And I think there has you you and your husband you'll you guys have to come to a really hard reality of that we we can't keep

doing this. And I know that's why you're calling us, but like that that has to seep so far down that the sacrifice is so deep. Like, you know, do you guys have an anything out on the cars at all or are those paid off?

They're all They're all Sorry, you broke up again, Tracy.

Oh, sorry. No, um cars are paid for. We drive old cars. We even tried to sell them um and see if we could put you know through a >> the the another issue is this mortgage is huge compared to what your take-home pay is now, which is 12 grand.

It's almost half your take-home pay just in this new mortgage. So, you might need to look into selling the house and downsizing if you can't solve this within 6 months. >> Yeah, cuz you asked about you know, when do you just file bankruptcy? Well, you you sell everything including the house to avoid a bankruptcy.

You know, even cash you I I don't want you to right now cuz we don't have enough time to dig into the numbers of like a 401k. You do all of that to avoid [music] a bankruptcy, but um The IRS goes to the top. That's the first thing in your debt snowball right now is those back taxes. And Tracy, I heard a lot of well, this person well, it was their fault.

At some point, we got to look in the mirror and go, "I'm responsible.

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>> [music]

>> Up next, we have Sally [music] in Los Angeles. Hi, Sally. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Um, big picture, I recently sold my house and I was able to um get about

300,000 um kind of tax-free cuz it was the I didn't

have to qualify to do any capital gains on it because I lived in it in past couple years and whatnot. And um now I'm

sitting on this little nest egg of mine and I keep I've invested like the first 50,000 into stock and um there's

obviously some fluctuations on a day-to-day basis based on you know what the President of the United States sometimes also tweets, things change, and whatnot. What do you mean, Sally? WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

>> [laughter] >> WHAT AM I SUPPOSED to I just like I'm like I want to move, I but I feel like I'm almost playing like hopscotch here where I'm like not now. So, can I go now? And I'm like I right now it's just sitting there and I'm like I'm thrilled I have it, but I also just don't want to be irresponsible. Are you needing this money anytime soon or were you looking at this just to put away for years down the road?

I'm looking to put it away. I think that is the best solution for me.

My husband and I are doing fine. Pretty much he's covering all the current expenses. We have toddler. We're We're doing it and I don't We don't have any debt or anything along those lines.

I don't feel like I can purchase anything with what I have in our current area. It's a high cost of living area, so that's not really an option either.

It can be put away for a moment and but

I'd also like to maximize some of my earning possibilities for it as well.

For sure. So, do you guys own a home?

Well, he owns a home that we don't currently live in. He's renting it out.

I also was renting out my old house before I sold it. Honestly, I sold it cuz I was like, I hate being a landlord.

This is not the business for me.

>> Sure. So, much anxiety. Yeah. Um so, we

have homes. Um we have, you know, the

What is it? The So, we have the deductions from like being home owners.

We also have the deductions from being parents. And so, um in this specific

area, it's quite expensive. So, it's like I don't know if my little nugget would really make much of a dent.

Well, I think eventually you guys need to talk about home ownership. So, whether that's you guys moving back into maybe the home that he owns that Are you guys You guys are married?

Yes. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, home ownership needs to be a a long-term goal for you guys. And I know that you're in an expensive area, but for your, you

know, financial future ongoing, home ownership will be the cheapest route because rent will just continue to go up, right? So, So, letting that be a Yeah. So, letting that be a goal, which this money could be used for. And I understand you're saying not right now, which is totally fine.

So, we always say investing, um you want to give it around a 4-year kind of benchmark. So, to give it 4 years to do the up and down, and in that time there'll be an election. Like right, all of that, right? So, you think about the time frame um that kind of feels good to to ride out the highs and lows if you're going to use this money down the road.

Uh so, if you're going to use it less than five than four 4 to 5 years, I would not invest it. But, if you think you're going to keep it in somewhere for 4 to 5 years, then yes, investing still for me would be the answer because we're not looking at what you're saying, a 30-day span, right? If you looked at the last 30 days, yeah, it looks insane. But, that's not always the case.

In fact, last year the market was what?

>> 20% last year, which is just >> Exactly. That's the thing. I don't want to even do like a high interest like savings account. But, I'm like, I just feel like that's like money left on the table and not getting any of that growth.

>> that's why the investing has a long-term mind You have to have a long-term mindset. And so, right now actually, which George you talk about this in your book Breaking Free from Broke, when you buy low, which is what it is, you know, right now with the volatility, you're actually going to get to buy more shares, if you will. So, as everything goes up, you kind of have more eggs in your basket, if you will, when the market does go up cuz over the course of you know, the trajectory of the of what the stock market has done since its inception, like it it does go up.

The American economy overall goes up. So, that just means you actually are going to be making more down the road if you buy now low. But, that's kind of an investor's mindset, George. >> Yeah, I I always like to say time in the market beats timing the market.

And only God knows what's going to happen, right? And so, it's just easier to not look at it and just know I'm going to block this money away and just let it ride and keep adding to it. And then 4 or 5 years from now, you're going to look up and there could be 5 600 grand in there. And now, that's a serious down payment Even with the prices in LA 5 years from now.

And so, I would make it a goal and say, "You know what?

Yeah, I like that. >> So, what is it invested in? Cuz you said, "I'm invested in stocks." And that scared me. Do you mean single stocks or like an index fund? No, index. Um and

honestly, I don't feel like the most fluid with having this conversation on that topic. I right now just have like um I took 50,000 of that 300, and it's

in like VOO. Sure. Um and then the rest is just like sitting there.

Yeah. You can invest the rest in there, and let it ride and keep adding to it every single month. Make it a goal. Hey, we're going to add $3,000 a month to this.

That's 36 grand a year growing for us with compound growth. And you can do some projections and see that 5, 6, 7 years from now, it's probably going to be closer to 700 grand if you do it this way. And then when you have enough to where you can go, "All right, we can take out a mortgage.

Let's go ahead and pull the trigger and get this house." And I get it, Sally. I mean, and and when I think about investing personally, I really I look maybe once a year at what's going on because I would give myself a panic attack every time I looked at the market. [laughter] To your point, uh specifically right now. >> when it's down.

Nobody looks when it's up and doing great. >> That's right. And that doesn't hit the news, either, right?

>> Yeah, I mean, the last 2 years have been insane. And then this year not so great, but that's what we're that's what we're seeing in the news. And so, and I get it. Winston I actually had some money in a high-yield savings that we actually talked to you about this, and we pulled some of it and invested it literally, Sally, I think like 32 days ago.

It was like right before everything hit the fan. And Winston and I were like, "Oh, that's such a >> [laughter] >> good to see it go down." Like we And I was like, "This is why I don't This is why I do not look." Cuz most of the stuff, you know, I'm like just The vending machine ate your money.

But then I know I go back to my brain of what I just talked to you through of what I know and I'm like we're not needing this money for you know, couple of years. So like just let it ride and let it do its thing. So that that is what you know, what you would have to do and it would be the smartest thing. I would still do what we did.

Yeah. Again, because I know what's happening, you know. And if you can Sally, I would auto invest it and that way it's out of sight, out of mind. I don't want to see the money.

I want to just leave and go straight to that investment account. I don't want to touch it.

if you will is because what you're investing in is is has has a good track

record, right? What we talk about with index funds or even mutual funds is you are buying, you know, 200 90 to 200 stock in a mutual funds and even with some of the index funds, you know, it's the S&P 500 in general. So >> companies based on market cap.

>> that's why you can kind of not have to look at it and feel like you have to manage it because it's just doing what the economy's going to do, right? It just kind of rides that wave versus stressing about Apple or Tesla or whatever, right? If you're trying to manage single stocks and all of it. So that's kind of the beauty of that diversification method um that index funds or mutual funds give you gives you is because there's there's a lot of kind of safety in it cuz if it all if it all hits, right, down and it and it all kind of falls out uh then the American economy's done done so.

If every company in America goes bankrupt, we're like, all right, this is the end. That's when hoarder Rachel >> what's helpful for me Sally is when you're looking at the line graph of like returns on whatever investment you have, I never look at it less than a 3-year.

Because if you look at it on a 1-week, a 1-month, you're freaking out, even 1-year. But when you look at 3-years, 5-years, 10-years, the further back you go with the more up into the right it goes. And so that's just a good perspective to have that you are investing for the long term. It doesn't matter if you on paper lost $20,000 cuz

you didn't. You didn't sell. You hung on to it. >> Yeah. So, keep keep up the ride.

>> I needed this pep talk to like get out of my way cuz I've never I don't come from money. I've never I'm thrilled that I'm here today now having this opportunity and I'm like oh, don't mess it up. Yes. [laughter] Yes.

>> great. You're doing better than you think. >> You know, and that caution, that's a good spirit to have. I mean, honestly, to really research, yes, research [music] and understand and you have to feel good about it.

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>> [music]

[music] >> Tax season is upon us, so to get a free checklist and guide that will help you file, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes.

[music] All right, let's head to Greenville, and we have John on the line. Hi, John.

Welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you guys doing today? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Uh yes. Uh me and my wife are newlyweds, got married last year, and having a little

bit of a disagreement on whether we should take a vacation this year.

She's wanting to take a vacation, and I'm thinking that we should probably just try to get a little bit more financially ahead to invest our retirement, and save up for a house, and just wanted to call to get a fresh perspective. Okay, so John, you're the money responsible guy, and your wife is fun.

Rachel relates to her.

>> [laughter] >> It sounds like you're already losing the battle, John.

She's ready to spend and have fun, and you're like, we need to think about retirement.

Which is good and responsible. She She says I'm not trying to paint my wife in a bad light. >> Oh, no, I'm joking. I'm joking.

No, I'm going to be probably more on your wife's team in the call. That's what I'm saying >> you guys have debt?

Uh we do not have debt. Do you have savings right now for like your emergency fund?

Uh yes, we do. We have about uh 23 grand

in the savings account and then about 45,000 in a brokerage. Wow. Okay, and

are you investing 15% of the household income right now into retirement accounts? Uh yes, we have about uh 54,000 in

retirement. And how old are you guys?

Uh just turned 24. Go on the freaking vacation, man. John. What do you mean you got to catch up? You're ahead of like 99.9% of America.

>> How much do you guys make a year?

Uh 115.

Okay. How much is this vacation going to cost?

I don't know. Probably um probably about three grand.

Okay. If I told you, "Hey John, when you retire, you could either have 9.85

million or 9.9 million." Would you say, "Yeah, I'm I'm willing to take the 9.85. That's fine."

Uh yeah, I would probably be okay with that. >> Yeah. That's what we're talking about here. You guys are going to be multi-multi-multimillionaires if you keep living this way, but you're going to have a miserable marriage if you keep living the way you're wanting [laughter] to live.

Which is well, that money is an opportunity cost. But and you're talking to the nerd of all nerds. >> to say, you got George. >> to go on the trip.

Let's just spend Yeah, if you guys if you guys seriously had some hey, we got a lot of debt that we're walking into this marriage with, we got to clean this up.

You went on the honeymoon, let's take a pause on vacations till we got our mess cleaned up, but there's no mess here.

You guys are doing everything by the book, you got plenty of money. You're not going to stop investing to save up for the trip, right?

No, no. I think I just get nervous because I've been really trying to save up for a down payment for a house and everything is just so expensive, so it just makes me nervous, or I'm just a I get in my own head of what could happen or anything like that. Well, do the math. The three grand in vacation is going to cost you maybe a half a month in your house down payment fund.

Right?

Yes. >> I mean, the next paycheck you could fund this vacation.

Okay. Right? >> Okay, that makes me feel a little bit better. >> Yeah, it's not going to delay your your home ownership goals. So, don't let the the fear of well, I'll never be a homeowner mean I'm not going to go on a trip for the next 6 years cuz we got to get a house, we got to get a house. You're so young, you're doing so great.

You guys will own a home before you're 30, and you're going to do it the right way, and it's going to be super peaceful and be a blessing in your life. But, if you don't also learn how to let go and live, you are going to be miserable in that house.

I was afraid you were going to say that.

Tell your wife she won the argument, not that it's a competition, >> but You know what? I think John It's three It's three on one, John. Me, and George, [laughter] and you're one. And as punishment, she gets $500 in fun money. Yes. He kind of let me down.

>> You got to upgrade the hotel room now.

>> Upgrade the hotel room, and she gets more fun money than you feel comfortable with. >> that's Yeah, that's the consequences, John, you know? Okay. Okay, [laughter] that's what I'll have to do. No, it's a good We're hang We're playing around. >> appreciate the the caution um and wanting it, but let me encourage you that our friend Arthur Brooks talks about five things you can do with money, and he said four of them actually can bring you happiness, and one does not.

The one that does not bring you happiness is just buying stuff.

But, one of the one of the things that can buy you happiness out of the four is buying experiences with people you love.

He said that's one of the best >> So, when you spend your money, yes, and you go and have an experience with people you love, um that actually incurs

a level of happiness in your life. So, we are um yep, that's that's uh George and I's marriage advice to you. Enjoy and have the goals, but you guys have them. You are on track, you are good, nothing's going off the rails.

And uh yeah. And I'll be honest, I'm I'm

kind of living vicariously through them because I wish I went on more trips when we were newlyweds. Oh, yeah, now that you're a dad, too. >> Yeah, we got went like one great trip in 2019, and then COVID happened. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. >> we got at least two good trips in >> It's so true. So true.

>> going to look back and go, man, we got kids now, it's much harder to travel. So when you're newlyweds, I'm like, Amy, you're doing this great. >> And it's three grand. I'm like, go. Go and enjoy. >> debt-free, emergency fund, retirement's kicking, let's go, buddy. Yes, so great.

Well done, John. You guys have done a fabulous job. Fabulous job.

>> beat up on you because you're doing so good. [laughter] >> I was like, your your wife seems like the fun one. He was like, I don't want to paint her in a bad light. I'm like, not here, John. >> me, she's in the best light. >> We like those people. We like her. All right, let's go to Brandon in Columbus.

Hi, Brandon, welcome to the show.

Hey there, how are you guys? Hi, we're doing good. How can we help?

Um so I'm self-employed, make about $50,000 a year. Uh I have about 66,000

in a high-yield savings.

And then aside from a mortgage, I have

about 50 48,000 in debt between a truck,

a garage, and then a loan to finish the garage. And I'm trying to determine if it's best to kind of deplete that savings and pay off some debt, or if there's something else I should be doing with it. You say you make 50 grand a year? Yep. And your truck is $48,000? You have

a loan on it for $48,000? It's It's 28,

Oh, I'm sorry.

That's okay. And then I have a garage that I run the business out of. It's 17,000.

And then a loan to finish the garage, like the drywall and all that good stuff. It was 6,700 is what's left on it. >> I got you. I got you.

Um Okay, so So, yeah, to answer your question quickly, yes, I would. Um I would take

it down to a thousand, which is going to make you sick. You're going to be like, "Oh my gosh." Just know that it's a false safety net, cuz if you lost your job today, guess who doesn't care? Every lender you owe is still going to demand that payment.

And so, you're going to feel a whole lot better and more peaceful taking your account from 66 down to whatever, 10 or 15 grand that you'll rebuild real quickly without those payments in your life.

Okay. That's the simple answer. Are you going to do it though? That's the biggest question on America's mind right now.

Well, that's what I think I've asked for advice from people I know, and nobody could Hey, do whatever you want to do.

And so, I'm like, I got to reach out to somebody else and, you know, third party and see what they say. >> Yeah, cuz the great thing is you'll have around 14,000 still left over in that high-yield account. You won't take it all the way down to zero or to to 1,000.

>> still be able to cover any emergency that came your way in the you know, few months until you build it back up. And then you'll be truly free. >> Are you married, Brandon?

Uh girlfriend, living with, we have a child together. Okay.

Um All right. Yep, so that's Yeah, that's what I would do though is I would go ahead and pay off all the consumer debt and then practice, you know, paying for things that you can afford, right? That we're not going to continue to go into debt because if if you count this 14,000 as an emergency fund, you may want to bulk it up a little bit. Then the beautiful thing is you get to move on to investing into retirement, right?

And start really looking towards the future with this money instead of having to pay for things in the past, which is what debt basically is. Um So, >> This is your never go into debt again insurance plan once you become debt-free with the emergency fund. So, next time you have a project, it's not Well, I got to take out a loan for that. I got to take out a loan for the truck.

You just learn to go, "I'm going to save and pay cash. I'm a guy who doesn't owe money owe money to other people." And well done on on saving 66,000 though, for real, because I mean, by by tomorrow, you could be completely debt free, which is incredible. For a lot of people, you know, they are >> [music] >> having to work extra, you know, cut the expenses, and it's a and it's a year-long process to get out of that debt.

Never too late. Just saying. >> have a kid together.

If she's the [music] one, do it. Seal the deal, Brandon.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Shawn in Indianapolis. Hi, Shawn. Welcome to the show.

Hey, Rachel and George. Good afternoon.

Thanks for taking my call. Absolutely.

How can we help today?

So, yeah. Uh we are in the wonderful world of navigating home, auto, and umbrella insurance policy renewals.

And our insurance agent recommended a product that is somewhat new to us and was hoping to see if you have a position on is it something wise to purchase? Uh specifically, it is a standalone wind and hail insurance policy for the home.

And that being a separate policy beyond just the homeowners.

With your roof and all of it. Okay. So, what does that cover that's different than if than if hail if hail damaged your roof? Yeah, if yeah, if hail damaged your roof, you would have [snorts] insurance to help replace the roof.

If you even if you didn't have wind and hail. The the way that it's described is that it would be specific to wind and hail and it would essentially bridge the deductible on the homeowner's policy.

So, something again relatively new and we weren't able to find a whole lot of additional information and we're seeing if you had familiarity with that type of a product and is it a wise purchase?

How much is it extra?

It It's low. I mean, it's less than 230

bucks per for the a For the year.

Um >> But it's essentially just covering the deductible? Is that what you're saying?

It's covering that gap?

It does. Exactly. Okay. Cuz your homeowner's policy does cover it, but you're saying this other policy is basically a deductible insurance policy.

I like the way you said that, George. Right. And and it's it's insurance on insurance, right? So it bridges the gap of an increasing uh deductible on that type of peril, you know, wind or hail damage. Oh, interesting. So how much does it actually cover? What's the dollar amount?

Up to 12,000, which would be the deductible on the homeowner's policy for such a peril. And it costs how much a month? Or a year? Uh well, for the year it's 230, so call it, you know, like maybe 20 bucks a month. Okay. I'm just trying to figure out the break even on this thing.

I mean, you're >> Mhm. you know, for the year, in 10 years you've paid 2,300 bucks for this thing.

And so if something happened in those 10 years and you needed to use more than two grand, you're like, all right, that was a good buy.

So do you guys have them Is this like easy money for you guys to cover this thing at this point in your financial life?

Oh, most definitely. It it It's not a not a burden at all. And in the same stretch, if you had to cover a $10,000 you'd be able to do that with no problem.

We could. That's where I go, hm, I might hang on to my money and just if that happens, I pay it out of the emergency fund and move on with my life. >> Yeah. Yeah, because there's going to be things like this. Oh, it almost feels like an extended warranty feel to a degree of

just >> It's a little bit gimmicky in that they were like, hm, what else can we come up with to to make a little more money?

>> Yes, to kind of just tack on to keep going. Do you know what I mean? And it's like an it's an easy sell, especially in the fear, you know, idea of oh my gosh, in the middle of a hail Yeah. Or windstorm. >> If this was an imminent threat and you didn't have an emergency fund, I might go, hey, this might be a good way to float the gap. For 200 bucks, it's like buying you some peace until you have that money. Mhm. So at this point, you can run some calculations.

I It doesn't seem like a no-brainer buy to me, though. I would have some pause and go, "I don't know if it's worth it." In the same breath, you could burn 230 bucks on a kitchen table and not think about it. >> That's right. Yeah, I think it's I think it's less about the money for you guys, Shawn.

It's probably more of the principal. So, I would say if you did it, just be aware in the future of other things cuz there's all I mean, companies are constantly looking at how they can make money off of people.

So, just yeah, be aware. I'd probably pass. I mean, we don't I don't think I think we would probably just >> Well, then figure out your number cuz some of these policies, they'll say, "Hey, it's 1% deductible on wind and hail." So, if your home is 300 grand, you might pay 3 grand out of pocket.

Well, then it wasn't worth paying 230 every single year for 10, 20 years. But, if it's more than that and your house is worth a million bucks, well, now it's bigger numbers. And so, that's where the things I would start to weigh, um, you know, before you make the decision, but it's a non-fatal decision either way.

All right, let's go to Kim in Richland, Virginia. Hi, Kim. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Hi, absolutely. How can we help?

I was wanting to get your assistance in potentially getting some money back from my bank. Um, my bank was a is a large bank and they have closed multiple accounts of mine,

um, back in early February.

Um, I can tell you give you the background on that if you like, but they had my accounts closed and are holding my money since February the 2nd. Um, I've pursued numerous routes with them, numerous bank managers, numerous levels within the bank. I've also filed a claim with the OCC and the CFPB

and still have had the no success in getting any of my money back. How much money are we talking?

I I I am not totally sure. I'm thinking

it's around $5,000. The reason being I have literally filed it's um, multiple accounts for people in my family and we had all just filed our return. So, a little bit of tax return money coming back in, maybe a thousand dollars a piece. So, it could be anywhere between say three and six thousand depending on if those credits credits had come back, but I And why did they close them?

Um I essentially I was on 12 different accounts because I had opened accounts with all of my children's checking and savings when they were sort of 15 and initially started working and hadn't been tidy with my finances and taking myself off when they turned 18, 19, 20.

So, I have four kids, eight accounts there and four accounts with my husband and myself, but I was the I was um central to all of them.

Um my youngest child deposited a a check

that he thought was a refund check. Um the person that issued the refund check then called the next day and said, "Oh, that was a mistake. Can you wire us the money back?" And he knew instantly that was fraudulent. He called the big bank and said, "Hey, I deposited this check.

They just called me. I think it's a fraud. I just wanted to let you know. I haven't spent the money." And they said, "That's fine. We'll you know, we'll take care of it." And the next day they closed his account, which I was on, and every account that was associated with me. Mhm, because of the fraud.

Correct. That's tough.

>> Um so, it wasn't great and they didn't let me know. Um I basically my banking app disappeared and I called the the bank number and asked and they said, "Oh, we we closed all your accounts." And I said, "Without email, phone call, mail?"

And they said, "Yes, that that's our that's our policy is to close your banking app and then you have to call us and we'll tell you that we've closed your account.

Okay, what did they say about the money? I mean, it's FDIC insured, so it's not going to disappear. They have to give you this money back legally.

Yes, I think it's just a delay after delay. Are they going to mail you a check or something?

Supposedly they're going to mail a cashier's check, but every time that I speak with them they say they're still in their quote closed process. How How long ago was this? >> February the 2nd. February the 2nd. So it's over 2 months now.

Yes. I might send a certified letter to the bank's legal and compliance department. That's That's more sure to get their attention versus customer service or like a branch manager. Who they don't have much power.

With somebody in the that is trying to resolve through the see they've combined the OCC and CFPB and they are telling me they are with the bank but that they don't have any power to force the bank to do anything within the system.

Um so do you think the letter would have more power than that? >> I'm just going to be the squeaky wheel. I'm going to hit it at 17 different angles until someone does something. You know what I mean? That's my style. I mean you can also go to your state's Your state has a banking regulator. Uh like a department of financial institutions and so you could kind of double up the pressure there.

Okay. But again just be squeaky.

>> a Do you need the checking account, Kim?

The What like you had four with your husband, you said. So do you guys need that to to live off of? I mean I'm assuming five grand spread out in all those accounts.

You don't but >> we did No thankfully we did have some in reserve at a [clears throat] credit union and so we've pulled out of that to to cover what what was in those accounts and of course we're still currently getting income. So I am thankful that we had that set up I do listen to you guys so that's what we tried to follow up on. Get some diversification in your banking.

What's that? Get some diversification with your banking. >> Is it Bank of America? Who is it? It is Bank of America. Yes, she knew it. Ding ding ding. Corporate just horrible.

>> Well man. Oh.

>> It's why I don't do business with these huge banks. I love a credit union for that because they treat you like a person and we have a great relationship with Fairwinds Credit Union. Kim, if you want to diversify now and have a secondary backup, Fairwinds is awesome.

>> Like they really do care, honestly.

>> Someone will actually pick up and help you, especially if you tell them Rachel and George sent me. >> Yes, [music] Kim, I'm so sorry. Um that yeah, I think the squeaky wheel approach is it cuz honestly, in a bank like that, you're just a number. >> [music] >> It's just you're just going to be floating around out there.

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>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Camel. And the lines are open at 888-825-5225.

Up first, we have Matthew in Charlotte,

North Carolina. We were just there last week. Hey Matthew, welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you? Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

Um just trying to figure out how to stop living paycheck to paycheck. Um my wife

works, I work.

You know, we have a house, cars, kids.

And we just can't seem to get ahead. We're just treading water constantly. How much debt do you guys have?

Um

you know, if we're not including the house and it's just the cars and uh probably around close to 90.

How much are on the cars? What's the balances of those?

Uh my wife just got a new car because her previous car had a bunch of electrical problems.

And we were kind of upside down on that one. And so they rolled that one over into the new car. And so that one's fresh. That one's at like 62 grand. Oh

my god. >> And what kind of vehicle is this?

It's a Nissan Pathfinder. Oh boy.

>> fancy. >> underwater are you?

Uh I mean, I'm drowning right now.

>> No, is that Is it worth 40 grand?

Uh yeah, the car, yeah. Brand new? Is it brand new?

Yeah. >> Okay, so you said nothing You said nothing fancy.

Matthew, you guys just bought a brand new SUV Pathfinder. So It's pretty pretty nice. Pretty nice.

Okay, so we're just going to let's just keep the reality where it is. So you guys got a brand new car. >> do not necessitate going out and buying a brand new car.

That was an emotional decision.

We don't have them we didn't have the money to get it the electrical problems fixed and it would have worn out. There was other cars [laughter] in the fleet.

Right. So okay, yeah, yeah. So I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just trying to get to the root here which is we need

to own up to the things that we did and not go, "Well, we had to." Cuz that's usually the sign you're going to stay in the cycle. >> Yeah, and and majority of this debt of the 90 is that one car. So what what is the other car? What payments do you have on it? How much is it worth?

I also had to get it recently. I got a used car.

Cuz my car was I had $1,500 left on it

so and it required like $8,000 in

work.

So what's the balance of this car that you have?

20. What do you guys make a year?

My wife makes about 45.

I brought home 96.

Okay, good. So you guys are clearing 140

grand a year. Yeah,

and not including my raise my last raise

that I'll be getting which is a a $14 increase so I'll be That's big.

That's like 30 grand a year.

You're saying it's going up by $14 an hour?

Yeah, I'll be roughly about 50 an hour.

Okay. So what's the other debt? You got 20 on one, 62 on the other. That's 82.

Is there another eight laying around?

Yeah, between credit cards.

About that, yep. Okay.

Well, the main thing I would do is get out of the 62K debt. That about solves the problem, doesn't it?

Well, I would then wouldn't it change our credit? And like how would I go

about that? I just tell the bank, "Hey, we can't afford it." And they take it or >> Here's what you need to do. You need to come up with the difference that you're underwater on. Which is going to be a lot cuz you guys rolled negative equity into it. So, how much >> might need to save up 20 grand. Yeah.

>> sell this thing. But then you need maybe another five or six more to go get a used car for now.

In cash. Right.

But that gets you What's the payment on that thing?

Mhm. About 1,200. Ooh. Would 1,200 bucks freed up change your life right now?

Uh I would like to say it would, but I I'd I don't think it would.

How much underwater are you guys every month on your bills?

Mhm. Let's say bill's about a thousand dollars. We don't have heat or air conditioning.

Um you know, we you know, we steal from Peter to pay Paul constantly. >> making what? You're taking home nine grand a month?

Between the two of us, yeah, probably.

Okay. She gets paid bi-weekly. I get paid weekly. What you guys need to do tonight is have a come to Jesus conversation and make a budget for the first time in your marriage.

Where do you lay out, "Hey, here's the next paychecks coming in. Here's all the bills that are going out. We need to make sure that we're not spending more than we make." And you might you might at least see the reality of, "Hey, we're two grand underwater every month." >> And we're going to cut up the credit cards.

At all. >> Right. Yeah, mine are in the freezer right now in a bunch of water. Send them to hell. >> Nice. Forget the freezer. Cut them up.

>> Burn them.

They have not been a blessing in your life. >> Yeah. And do you have any savings, Matthew?

No. >> No. Okay. No. Okay. What's your What's your wife? How How is money between you guys in the relationship? When you Like the fact you're calling us, does she Is she begging you to to change or you begging her to change? What Like where are you guys at?

Um I mean, it's I would like to say it's more her.

Um constantly like

She doesn't even really get stuff for herself. I don't get stuff for myself.

It's more or less like kids need shoes.

You got 82 grand in vehicles. I'd say that's getting something for yourself.

Right. I mean, I see that as, you know, I I need a safe vehicle for my wife and kids.

Not when you can't afford it, Matthew.

Can we be honest? A 2018 Pathfinder would have been just fine.

Right, but then you have to worry about warranty and, you know, something happens, we don't have the money to Not if you save $1,200 a month, you get to save up an emergency fund and have six grand in about, I don't know, a couple months, you know? >> You create your own warranty program.

>> are it. >> Called Bank of Matthew. Yep. Yep.

>> So, do you see what we're trying to get at here? If you keep thinking like this, you're going to stay in this cycle. We're trying to break you out of this thing by making some really deep sacrifices so that you never say, "Well, I had to." Cuz if if that's the case, we can't help you. >> So, there's a There is a a change in perspective you guys have to have to say, "We are in charge of our money and our decisions.

Like we're going to choose what our money's going to do. We are in charge. We're not just going to let things happen and well, we have to do this. We got to do that.

Oh gosh, we're stuck in this corner." There has to be a perspective change, and when that happens, then you actually get to look in the mirror, if you will, and say, "All right, who's going to change our lives? We are. This is This is us." So, now we have to If we don't want to be where we are today with money, then we have to do everything opposite that we've been doing.

We've been relying on debt, we can't rely on debt. We haven't been living on a budget, we don't really know where our money's going, we have to be on a budget. Like, I literally, Matthew, do the opposite of everything you guys have been doing. And so, if you hang on the line, Christian's going to pick up, we're going to give you every dollar for a year.

You guys need to sit down tonight and do a written budget. Where does nine grand go >> [music] >> every single every single month? Like, where line item by line item where is this going? And then your next goal is to save up a thousand dollars, first and foremost, that's your starter emergency fund.

[music] And then you guys need to start working your way out of debt, but there there has to be a level of ownership and agree, you know, you guys have to agree that we we can't keep doing this.

>> [music]

>> At Ramsey, we don't partner with companies chasing trends or pushing gimmicks. Trust is earned, and that's why we send people to Fairwinds Credit Union. See, a lot of banks rely on teaser rates, marketing hype, and fine print, but that's not how Fairwinds operates. They've been serving members for 75 years, and you don't last that

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>> [music]

[music] >> Up next on the line, we have Chris in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you doing? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today? >> [music] >> Well, I'm going through a now 3-year

divorce and having hard time

uh financing the rest of the divorce.

We've used up quite a bit of assets during that time.

Um so, I'm trying to figure out

>> Yes. Yeah, well Why has it dragged out for 3 years? >> soon to be Um she had a um she had a stake hold in her company that she worked for.

Um they have private shares. It's private company and so, we had to do like long discovery process because they were unwilling to give the information. So, I had to hire a forensic accountant.

The accountant um had to do a lot of digging and you know, it just cost me probably 200,000 now uh over those 3 years.

Did you have that money?

I did. Now, I'm out. So, I've been

uh signing up for credit cards to

pay for the attorney's and the accountant. How much credit card debt are you in?

About 30,000 now.

And and counting because we're still

not we're still litigating.

I mean, where where is the end in sight here?

We were supposed to be done in February, but the stock price changes every March.

So Let's play this out. What if this is another 2 years? And now you're $200,000

in debt. Was it worth this?

Yeah, because every year, and this is

what I tried to talk to my ex-wife about, was every year the stock price goes up and we own

about 300,000 shares in the company,

which if it fluctuates a dollar, that's close to another half million a year

just if it's a dollar a share increase.

So we're looking at 1.7 million difference

from 2025 to 2026 in the value. But at

this point, we're gambling. Because if you lose this thing and you're 200 grand in debt, now you're screwed.

Yeah, I'm kind of getting richer and poorer at the same time. So it's it's it's a weird predicament to be >> this to mediation?

We we mediated three times now.

Um And so I'm confused what the hold up is. What why is this not What what What else do you have to have for it to be final?

Uh for her to I guess give up and face

reality. Um you know, we've tried to mediate and we're so far off on the numbers it basically needs to go to trial.

And the trial date just keeps on getting pushed off the docket um and moved forward because of non-cooperation on on their side. We wanted to get it done. Uh sent in offers, no counteroffers were put in. Um so it's just drawn out. I think she's just drawing it out so that she bleeds me, basically, is what the It's worked.

I guess. Now you're going into crippling debt. At some point, you're going to have to give up and wave the white flag while making lawyers really rich. You have funded some really a nice lifestyle for some lawyers.

Oh, for sure. I'm sure they're building pools in their backyard. I mean, at some point, we just need to make this a peace treaty and cut our losses.

Or take what you can get. Come to a compromise. I No, I don't know how to do that without >> Is it all or nothing for you? Like what is a Let's say what's a decent scenario

that you get some of these shares?

Well, we The company has a clause that clearly states how the shares get split in the case of a divorce.

Um and they write a check, you know, for

whatever the court determines. So, it's

actually the company. It's very simple.

It's It's a simple process.

Um So then what's by What's from the legal perspective, why is it dragged out? If it's that simple of what you're saying, I don't understand why all the lawyers don't see that and >> it it Yeah, it was discovery. Discovery

was the longest part of the process and the forensic accounting part. And then so but it cost money. You know, that cost money. I knew that it was going to be a She We had We had separate assets and I I hear it all the time with you guys.

Oh, we lost you, Chris. >> Chris?

Yes. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay, well Yeah, I hear This

got You said discovery was the longest.

Is it over? Because you said you guys kind of found everything, but then the stocks changed over in March, so now we're in April. So, what's your What's your What's your final cuz you don't want to live 5 more years like this, Chris.

No, we're looking at possibly So, my lawyer has told me that we have a meeting in the May and then we determine what the next trial date is and that's supposedly going to be September.

And they're going to keep working on the same that whole time.

Yes. So, this could go a whole 'nother year before there's some resolution.

Which means you're another 100 grand in debt easily.

Yes, but I don't know how to get out of that. I mean, you're stuck in the process. What's your network today?

Yeah, what How much are Yeah, how much do you have, Chris? How much I mean house, your assets, what where are you at financially?

Um I still have two properties in the

Carolinas that are I own outright. One burned down. My wife filed for divorce in

February of '23 and then the house burned down a week later up in the Carolinas. Okay, how much are those worth?

Probably 50,000 and then

the other property is about 15,000.

What's your total network?

Wait, a property? Is it Is it just land?

I had a house. It had a house and it burned down. It got set on fire.

>> So, the land is only worth 15 grand?

Mm 50 grand for that land and then the

with the the land across the street is about 16,000.

>> Okay. And what are you doing with those two properties?

I have my own company and it fluctuates.

Like last month, I I made like 30,000.

This month, I'll probably make like 5,000. So, overall, probably about

100,000. I work on uh medical equipment. Okay.

Man, I would personally I know this is like your sunk cost fallacy. I would cut my losses and go you can rebuild a great life and build wealth from scratch.

You're a smart guy, you'll get there.

I also know that you could burn another 150 grand on the off chance you can make half million a year. I just don't think the risk is worth it and the stress.

It's going to take years off your life to keep this battle up emotionally and mentally on top of financially. Of what it is, yeah. And I would I would sell those properties. I wouldn't be a long Well, I was going to say landlord. I don't think there's any occupancy in in this >> Yeah. situation. So, I'd go ahead and just get rid of those properties. Yes.

>> if you're going to keep fighting this. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's 66 grand that you'll have um to help at least pay

off some of this credit card debt. And I think Chris, you have to make a decision to say, "Okay, at you know, whatever that breaking point is for you." We're never going to tell you to continue to go into debt.

Um so, yourself, if you if you're choosing to kind of play that game, you at least please, you at least need a point in your mind to say, "If we get to X point on the calendar

and nothing has moved or there or there's no set there's nothing like even if a trial date, you know, keeps moving out. Like you can't just live in this cycle forever and ever like George says." >> This is the same part of your brain like a gambling addict where they just go, "Well, I just got to double down. This time's going to be different. I'm going to get it this time." Yes.

I just don't think it's worth it when you're a smart guy making great money. >> Well, and I'm very and it's a little confusing if if it's so clear in the bylaws of the company of what happens to the shares in in the case of a divorce, how how that's not It would have happened by now if it was going to happen. >> naive, right? And and again, I know every divorce is very different.

Every state is different. Every whatever, but how it's just not spelled out like that and then that's part of all the assets that are um >> [music] >> you know, divided up and everything. So, my fear is that you've been in a 3-year rollercoaster that that there's no clarity. >> of your children.

It's just about I could have had a gigantic pile of money and I won't have that. Yeah.

I would grieve that, move on. >> Absolutely. Oh, sorry, Chris. Hope that's helpful. It's probably not the advice you wanted, but sometimes it is just to cut the ties, just to get everything settled and be done and move on.

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All right, let's head to John in New York City. Hi, John. Welcome to the show. Hi, Rachel. Hi, George. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, I work for a very, very small family business, and we don't have a 401k

retirement plan.

So, the owner is offering me something

called deferred equity. So, this would be a small percentage every year that I'm there. Um but, I don't get paid unless the business is sold.

And if I leave, I get nothing.

Is that too much risk for me to take on, or is it a wise retirement choice?

No, I would not bank on my retirement for that. I would be doing some other things with investing. But, would that just be an added I don't know, um benefit to your retirement? >> to it, or they just going to give this to you regardless?

They're going to give me 1 and 1/4% uh retroactive to when I started. Um

So, when would you even get that payout?

You'd have to be still employed there when they sell it in order to make anything. Correct. And so, I guess the idea is I

would get first dibs on the business if that, you know, when that day comes, and I could use that deferred equity as a down payment on the business. Or if I choose not to do that and someone else buys it, then I would get paid out.

Are they planning on selling the business? Is that part of the long-term plan?

Eventually. Is that 30 years from now or three? Cuz there's a big difference. Well, exactly.

I I have no idea. It could be I think realistically maybe around 10 years, but

who knows. Well, I mean, if it costs you nothing, take it. I still would prefer a retirement plan that's actually yours instead of basically a promise. Yeah, is there an option of he would give you like a traditional 401k situation or this? Or is it that this is the retirement package and that's it?

>> this is basically a way to keep I'm I'm essentially running the business right now and and by um by providing this uh benefit >> plan. forward to It's a retention plan.

Okay, what do you make?

I gross a little over 80, and I have I get uh health insurance and a company vehicle.

Okay. And what kind of uh industry is this?

It's I'm not going to say exactly what it is, but it's very niche, and it will

I can guarantee it will always be around. Do you want to take it over one day?

I could. I I wouldn't I think if the circumstances were right, I would like to. Uh it's something my family's been involved in for nearly 100 years. So, How old are you?

>> I could carry that on. I'm 35. Okay. You got any debt? >> [clears throat] >> Just the house. Awesome. Are you investing currently?

Very, very little. Just a whatever fraction I I have on my Roth IRA.

Is it because money's too tight?

It's too tight right now.

Mhm. Well, that worries me.

Cuz you need to build wealth on your own. And if this equity doesn't happen, you're going to retire broke.

Yeah. So, that's where I go. We have a We have another fish to fry, which is why can't I invest 15% of my income? Why can't I fully fund a Roth IRA? I would at least be doing That's the bare minimum is you funding a Roth IRA every single year without fail.

In order to set yourself up.

>> I I need to make more money, which is something that I I plan on negotiating because I I I know that it's there. Can you make six figures doing this elsewhere?

Yes, but I don't know I I'd probably have to relocate to do it.

I might be willing to do that. Are you single?

No, I'm married. Okay. What does she What does your wife do? >> working?

She works part-time for college.

Okay. Do you guys have kids?

Not yet, but we're planning on it. Okay.

I would have She needs to go full-time.

She needs to be working. And you guys need to be funding 15% of your income into retirement. That's your answer.

Right?

Oh, I agree. Yeah.

So, I think you both need to sit down and say, "Okay, what do we want our lives to look like?" Um and run some numbers. You can use like even just the Ramsey investment calculator to say, "Hey, right now if we fund 15% of our income into retirement, where are we going to go?" So, Cuz if you make a 100 grand household, you could fund two Roth IRAs, you and your spouse. And if you can't do that, it tells me either you have Your expenses are too high or the cost of living is too high, in which case you should go move.

Cuz if you move somewhere where the cost of living lower, and you can make six figures, it's a no-brainer. So, I would not hang on to these golden handcuffs of a promise of equity at 1% per year that you might use as a down payment to buy the business one day if you can even afford it. There's just way too many variables there for me to be comfortable with. >> And if they're giving that to you as a benefit, and you're loving the job, and you and your wife sit down, and she works more, and you guys kind of figure out, "Okay, here's what we can do for the next couple of years." Then yeah, take the take the benefit they're giving you.

It's no harm to you. It's just going to be an extra thing you have in your back pocket, but I would not at all have the confidence that it's actually going to play out. >> I would work on negotiating that to say, "Hey, I'm going to vest 3 years in, I can take that equity out, and you can pay me that if I do leave." >> Absolutely. All right, let's head to Zoe in Des Moines.

Hi, Zoe. Welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? >> Hi, we're doing great.

Yeah, I was wondering if I should sell the car that I have currently. So, there's like uh just under 12,000 left on it. Um and

the payment is like 275 a month, and if

I take what I have over a thousand dollars in my savings, and just um leave that thousand-dollar emergency fund, and then um what I got back in a tax refund, I could knock it down the

loan would be about um 6,500 instead.

So, I'm just trying to decide if I should get rid of this one, get a different car, and have no payment, or if I knock it all the way down to 6,500 and pay it off before the end of the year if that's okay. Yeah, how much do you make a year?

Um like 40. Okay. What's the car worth?

Um 16.

Oh, so you would make money on it.

Yeah. Yep. Um and you could how quickly could you pay it off with the with the 6,500 take you? You said to the end of the year.

>> Uh definitely by the end of the year, yeah.

>> Okay. Do you like the car?

I do. Yeah. >> like the debt. Sure. Well, I mean, use that as fuel. If you don't like the debt, let's aggressively just pay the debt off, but the car is not inherently the issue here. It is a lot of car. I mean, it's worth 16k and you make 40.

That's a pretty big, you know, ratio, but it's not on fire. We wouldn't tell you, "Hey, you got to sell it." And if the car was worth 30 grand, I would say, "Yeah, this needs to be sold tomorrow." Yeah. But you could, if you wanted to, you know, you take your debt down to 6,500, you sell it for 16, leaves you with 9,500 to go buy a a new to you car.

You could do that, but it's a lot of effort to then just have a different car that you might like less.

Yeah. Okay. So, I would aggressively just pay it off. I probably would, too.

Just from the hassle standpoint, when you look at the numbers. I mean, you could try to earn an extra grand and have this paid off, you know, in Well, I guess which would be close to the end of the year. So, about the same.

>> That's sad. We're already there. I know. I'm like, "Only one month." >> Bro, I know. That's what I was thinking, too. Um yeah, so I think it's it is either way, Zoe, I think it's fine. I think it would probably be a personal choice at this point. If you do keep it, be gazelle intense, pay it off as soon as you can, but if you're like so tired of

it, which it kind of sounds like you are, and you're just like, "I don't care about the hassle. I will sell this thing. I will go down to, you know, a different car and just be done with it in 30 days Yeah. and have no payments and you're be happy, you could do that, too.

>> But it's 275 a month. So, all things considered, it's not a make-or-break in your budget, likely, but I mean, it's still eating your lunch at 40k after taxes.

>> [music]

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>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you [music] by Yrefi.

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Today's question comes from Patrick in Michigan. Do you think it's a good idea for my 19-year-old daughter to buy a small home while she goes to college? I would be a cosigner and she would rent out the extra rooms and manage it. She would use the rental income to pay the mortgage, but I could potentially be her backup. Does this sound like a solid housing plan for her?

Woof. I don't think so. Just shivered. It sounds like you saw a TikTok that sounded really cool or it was like, "Just It's easy.

Buy an investment property, your daughter lives in it, and it'll You can rent out the rooms. It's a money-making scheme." I don't want to combine these things. These are good things, buying an investment property, but you're doing it in a bad way by cosigning and forcing yourself to buy in that area. That's right.

knows if it's going to be a good area. And it's not a long-term plan. >> a college town, right? Is where you're buying.

Um so, no. I mean, I would ask my I would ask the question, would I buy an investment property in this area regardless if I had a child there or not. >> Yep. And I wouldn't co-sign. If you want to do it, just buy it outright yourself.

>> right. And let her manage it for a fee or something. You know what I mean? Like, if you wanted to like have something But you he probably I don't know if Patrick has a primary home with a mortgage on it, but I would not go get another mortgage. So, if you can buy it in cash and you're just excited about this prospect of owning some property out there for whatever amount of time, I would you can go for it, but I would not do it the way you're describing here.

All right, let's head to Logan in Is that Lafayette? Yeah. Hey, Logan.

>> Lafayette. It's Lafayette, isn't it?

Hey, Logan. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Thanks Thank Thank you guys for taking my call. Absolutely. Welcome. How can we help?

So, I'm kind of in a little bit of a pickle right now to where I'm trying to stick to the baby steps and make

meaningful progress towards paying off my debt, but I just feel like, you know, that that $1,000 I save like I I will

push it up to about three grand and then I kind of feel bad for having that much money knowing it could be used somewhere else and I just pay off my debt to get get back down to $1,000 emergency fund. So, I think it's just I need like a clear goal in mind about paying off my debt and that's where I where I'm asking you guys is how can I stick to that baby step number two?

Um well, that kind of is your goal is each individual debt that you're paying off is what you're looking at and that's going to be your goal is the next smallest debt. Is there something that's happening in your life that you're going to need more in that emergency fund or is it just the idea of having a thousand dollars that makes you nervous or what causes you to keep bumping it up?

Well, uh cuz I moved out with my girlfriend in August of this past year.

Um I used to live in a different state and then we got jobs over here in Indiana, so that's where we've been for like the last 8 months, but my girlfriend was actually in a pretty bad car accident in October and she did not

have health insurance, so she just has a mountain pile of debt too that she's trying to pay off, so that's why I was thinking that I probably will need a little bit more just in case if she's unable to pay something off or pay her bills, then maybe I can step in to help that way, but How much debt do you have?

Right now, I actually just I paid off my

credit cards. It was about five grand worth of credit cards about two months ago, so I just got the auto loan, which I did about a $2,500 payment today, so

Nice. >> be around 19 eight, I believe. Just the >> 20 grand left on the car?

Yes. >> What do you make a year?

I make about 41,000. Oof.

Man, that's a lot of car for your life.

Yeah. What's the car worth? >> it.

I'm going to be honest. It I got it at a pretty bad interest rate, too, but the car is worth probably around 11 to 13,

give or take, trade-in. Did you roll over negative equity?

Uh I did not. Um I'm wondering private party value, if you can get closer to that 20 and you just save up five or six grand over the next couple months and just sell it and get a different car.

It that that was my plan, too, but it I think the main issue is with that is me and my girlfriend, we all we work different shifts, so it's going to be hard to do.

>> I don't I mean, we probably could, but I feel like it'd be more of a hassle just because I go to work at 12:30 and she goes to work at 4:30, so it's going to be kind of hard to But y'all still currently share one car?

Uh we do not. No, she she she she has her own car. Okay, wait. So, what's the what what's the problem about working about working different shifts? You're not going to be using her car. I'm saying get a different car. You save up six grand or whatever the difference you're underwater in and then save up enough to get a different car, cheap car.

And then you'll have a different car and with no payment. And then you can stack up that emergency fund really quick.

>> basically instead of paying off 20,000

then just save up 10, cut your timeline in half, save up 10, pay off the negative equity, and then go get yourself a $4,000 car.

>> Let's say you sell yours for 15, you owe 20, right? So, use part of your 10 to cover that, that's five, and then you'll have five left to get a new to you car.

>> So, you just cut your whole timeline in half basically of getting out of debt.

So, So, instead of just making extra payments on my car, just save up the 10 grand in cash and just do it that way.

>> Yep. Yep. That's what I would do.

How quickly could you do that if you got real aggressive, working multiple jobs,

overtime if you can, all of that?

Probably by the end of the year.

Give or take. Okay.

That's not a bad timeline, and now it's hey, I can survive on a thousand buck emergency fund till the end of the year.

And if something comes up, you just stop the baby steps and stack up cash really quick. Yeah, instead of all of 2027 still paying off this car. Do you know what I mean? Like it just it shrinks down that timeline. And then and then after that car, you you have the new car, the old one sell you know, sold and all of that, then you start saving up an emergency fund. And at this point, truthfully, you're not in a place to support your girlfriend.

Yeah, you don't have the money. You're broke.

Yes, I am. So, that's not a reality where you can cover her rent for her for any amount of time. >> are you guys?

Uh she's 20 and I'm 21. Okay.

Um Do you have health insurance?

Sorry, say that again? Do you have health insurance?

Uh my dad pays for it. Uh she she has her own. Okay. >> Okay. So Logan, I think what you're doing and your thought process of taking care of her is very honorable.

But I would keep finances as separate as

possible. Um because there is no legal marriage

here. There's nothing that protects you in any of this. Um cuz there's a Yeah, I

mean I hope not, but there's a good chance that, you know, you guys 6 months down the road aren't together anymore. And if you, you know, went into debt or started giving, you know, all this money to her. Yeah, you know, that's 10, 12 grand that you don't have going to someone that's You're not married to. And so it sounds really harsh.

And again, if you're in a position to help pay for her and you want to, and even if she leaves or you leave and it's, you know, you look back years from now and you're like, "Oh wow." And you feel good about it still, then that's one thing. But we just have talked to some people they pay on, you know, people's student loans and they're, you know, they're co-mingling lives. And so what happens is you end up co-mingling money naturally because you basically are acting like you're married, but you're not. And so I would just I would just give you a word of caution.

money. And if if she can't pay rent for foreseeable amount of time, she needs to go find somewhere she can afford it or go live with family while she heals.

But you can't foot the bill for her.

Yeah, I see that that makes sense, but it's it's also a fact that I I I've had a hard time saving over years as well to where I've actually never had probably more than like four grand cash at one time as well throughout my working life for the last 4 years. Yeah. And would you say that's due to having a little bit of debt?

Yeah, this is just doing stupid decisions when I was 18, 19 years old and translating to now, yes. Yeah. So so let that fear be the fuel to get out of that faster with that thousand bucks going, "Hey, I'm not safe. I want to be at a place where I got 20 grand saved up to protect me." And that's where you'll be if you follow the plan.

Yeah, and Logan, you're on the right track. And I mean, being 21 and starting this plan is amazing. There's people 41 that are starting this.

>> you are ahead decades. [music] If you do this stuff, Logan, stay out of debt, live below your means, have this emergency fund, get out of debt, bump it up to a fully funded emergency fund, start [music] investing in retirement. I mean, literally walking the baby steps, you will retire a multi-millionaire.

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruze with George Kamel, and we are taking your questions at 888-825-5225.

All right, in Armadillo, Texas, we have Katrina on the line. >> Armadillo? Amarillo?

But it was so I'm like, is there an Armadillo, Texas? Cuz there needs to be.

>> I literally was thinking Texas. >> Katrina, can you confirm? My gosh, Amarillo, I'll never live that down, Katrina. Dad gum it.

>> Amarillo. It's okay. Oh, my gosh, Katrina. She's

so relatable. No. I love it.

>> [laughter] >> Katrina, welcome to the show. How can we help?

So, I'm just kind of been chasing my

tail. Um Like an armadillo.

>> [laughter] >> Or a cat, like Katrina cat. Oh, there we go. Catrina.

thanks you for helping that out.

You're fine. You're fine. So, I have been chasing Mattel for a while and a series of bad luck with my family.

Leon Dave he talks about Murphy's Law.

Well, Murphy moved into my home and and has affected my me, my grown [clears throat] daughter, her good friend, and my husband and it's been

heck. Like we are trying to balance out the bills. Um and basically we're on payment plans

for everything and we have

uh according to our budget and every dollar it looks like it's going to be okay, but it's never okay because we're

paying payment plans on everything which is more expensive. For example, I just paid last month a $678 water bill.

So, there's unexpected things that come up? >> behind on utilities? Is that what you're saying? Yes, and on everything. On everything.

Okay. So, what's happened in life, Katrina, when you said Murphy moved in?

Well, um I worked for the place that was grant funded and my grant was ending and fortunately it took me a while, but I've got another job and it's good.

Okay. My daughter worked for the same place.

Okay.

How old is she?

She's 22. She Before this she had her

own place. Okay. So, she's living with you now because she can't afford her own place?

Yes. >> Because of this new job doesn't pay what she was making?

Yeah, it doesn't. It's not even a living wage and then And that's the same place you're working?

Was working. Okay. >> We both worked at the same place and >> And what was it? What were you guys doing?

Um I was helping with health care navigation and she was helping with finding people homes. I mean, worked for HUD. Worked for HUD, okay. What are you making now?

I am making about 4,500, I think, a

month. Is that your household income?

No, just mine. My husband makes about 2,400 bring home. What does he do?

Um, he works for the state. He's works for workforce development and he's a been there for 20-something years. And he makes 30 grand? Yeah.

Yeah. That doesn't make sense.

Yeah, it's um, he says he had a raise and then they had a cut and that was another thing that messed us up.

They gave him promotion, gave him a raise and then demoted across the board because of funding, demoted everybody.

What does he do? What's his role?

Um, he's workforce development specialist. So, he helps people find jobs. Mhm.

Okay, so your take home pay is $6,900 and what's the total balance of all the consumer debts that you guys owe?

Consumer debts, uh, that would be close >> Okay, that would be close like 200,000.

Wow. >> take. That does not include the mortgage?

Um, no, that does include the mortgage.

Let me It's going to be about 150,000, I think.

100 >> mortgage And my mortgage about 144,

but it's less now cuz I've paid it.

Okay, so you have $150,000 in debt aside from the mortgage.

Mhm. Break down some of those debts for us. Um, about 70 is um is uh student loans, of course. Whose are those? They're they're mine. They're equal.

How long have you had them?

Since 2012.

Okay.

We have some credit cards and then we have about a $30,000 No, sorry. $20,000

left on the car.

We paid one car off.

Okay. And what's on the credit cards?

It was basic living expenses. I mean you got 70 in student loans and 20 on a car loan that's 90 out of the 150. So where's the other 60? Is that all credit cards? >> I No, it's not 60,000. I didn't math correctly. I'm sorry. Okay. Closer

closer closer to 15. Sorry. Okay. It's

all good. That definitely helps. 150 grand was a worse number. So All right. So you got just about $105,000 and most of it is those student pesky student loans.

And then we got this car loan. So if you laid out your debt smallest to largest, I'm guessing one of these little credit cards is the first one that needs to go.

Yes, it would be.

Okay. And right now you're saying when you do the budget, there is money left over on paper.

Yes. How much is left if nothing crazy happened in a month?

Um about 400.

And what payment plans are you guys on?

You said utilities.

Yeah, I'm just utilities and of course

my mortgage. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So but you're able to pay your mortgage every month, correct?

No, I'm paying 29 days behind. Okay. So

I think our first goal is to get caught up. So we want to get out of this payment plan with the utilities and we want to be caught up to the mortgage. Okay, Katrina. That's our And paying your four walls before any debt payments get paid. >> Yes. So food shelter which utilities and and house is this.

So this is your this is your rate one before anyone gets paid. Okay, credit cards could go. The car payment would be the next priority after the four walls cuz you got to get from A to B to get to work.

But outside of that, if the student loans and credit cards can't get paid one month, I'd rather those go to default than your utilities and your housing. >> Yes. Yeah, they haven't been getting paid.

Who's not been getting paid?

I know I said those have not been getting paid. >> loan or the credit cards?

No, they uh just stopped.

>> Okay. So So you have $7,000. How much does your daughter bringing in a month?

Uh whatever $11 an hour is. Okay, so she

needs to go be working >> grand a year or so. somewhere Yeah, somewhere else, too. You know what I mean? Be looking for a job. And you mentioned a friend. Is there a friend living with you all?

Yes. Yes, uh just a family friend that

was uh a roommate with her. And Is she

working? >> his job. He lost his job, too. But he just now recently found a good one. And they need to be paying rent.

They were, and then they So he I don't make her do it, but he does, and he was paying, and then he had to stop cuz he lost his job, but he's got a good one now. Like we're at the starting level, everything's okay now. We just need to get out of this chasing my tail thing. >> Yeah.

Okay, so the $7,000 a month, Katrina, that you guys have, you guys have to pay the mortgage on that and and [music] making sure that the car is paid for and your utilities. That's all you guys have to do. And then you're going to be eating rice and beans, beans and rice.

There's like the food budget is nothing.

Like we are We're going to eat, but it's like that's low. We're doing nothing else but catching up. And that needs to be your goal probably for the next couple of paycheck cycles. >> On top of your husband getting a better job. I mean, that that solves a whole lot of problems if he can double his income by doing some work that pays him what he's worth.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Kyle in Lansing, >> [music] >> Michigan is up next. Kyle, welcome to the show. Hey Rachel, thanks for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, um we 2 months ago we um lost my mom to an unexpected

heart attack. Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

How old was she? Um Um 79. Mm, I'm so sorry.

Lost my dad 5 years ago uh to cancer and I recently came into a sizable amount of money and I just want some opinions on how to not lose it.

Okay. What does a sizable amount of money mean?

It's uh touch over 2 and 1/2 million.

Wow. Okay. Was this from mom's estate or what? It is. Yeah.

>> Okay. Wow, so your parents did well,

obviously. >> Yes. Did you know about all this? Is this a surprise to you?

Yes and no. Um, I have two siblings. Uh, we always knew they were comfortable, but just not to this scale,

I guess. Yeah. You didn't know just how comfortable. Right. Right. Wow.

>> Oh my gosh. Wow. What What kind of um

How is this 2 and 1/2 million divvied out? Is this in cash? Is it in an asset?

For the most part, um, most of it's all it most of it's a like a Edward Jones, um, Okay. There's about a half a million in IRA we got to get out in 10 years and

the rest is in cash. Wow. Okay. What do

you make? Um, between my wife and I we're about 200. Fantastic. And how old are you guys? Um, I'm 45. My wife's 47. Okay.

And how are you guys financially?

Uh, we're we're pretty good. Um,

yeah, we just built a new house. Uh,

just under 500,000 in that, which we borrowed the money from my mom to build and since has been forgiven.

Oh, wow. Um, we still have our old house that we're getting ready to sell, you know, painting and putting new carpet in and sprucing it up and that's somewhere in the neighborhood of 300,000. Okay.

So, the Um, the payment to her, that 500 it just went away when she passed. That doesn't That doesn't take out of your 2.5. Well, it's part of the 2.5. Oh, okay.

So, would it be 2 million left or was it supposed to be three, but now it's 2.5?

No, there's just a little over 2 million left. Okay. After the house. After the house. Got it. Got it. Got it. 2 million and you guys have no debts whatsoever.

Nothing. No. But then when you sell this house it goes back up to 2.3 in a sense, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> With everything. Okay. >> That's great. >> Um and yeah, cash on hand for you guys,

where are you guys at?

Um well, we just moved about 70,000 over into a money market because it was sitting kind of stagnant into and I just have savings account.

Um and our financial advisor

asked us to to move that because that's not doing anything there. Mhm. Is that your emergency fund or is that for earmarked for something else? No, it's just it's just money just extra money.

It's >> You're saving. Okay. >> Okay. Yeah. And how much do you guys have in retirement for you?

Um [snorts] I actually have a pension through work. Um my wife is about she's a little over 200,000 in a Roth and I've got about I don't know, 55,000 in a Roth, I guess.

Okay. Um all right, that's great. So you guys are in what we call baby step seven. You got no debts whatsoever. House is paid for, which puts you in a really unique place cuz you have a lot of options now and there's only three things you can do with money and that's to give it, save it, spend it. And we would recommend doing all three with reasonable ratios.

Okay. So I would be giving a portion of this money. That's up to you guys. It's a matter of the heart. I would be enjoying some of it. What's the thing you guys really want to do? The thing you want to upgrade? Maybe it's a car, maybe it's a thing in the house. And then invest the rest of it and build generational wealth so that you can be able to do this for your kids one day.

Which by the way, do you have kids?

Yeah, we have one one six-year-old. Um and that's that's I'm I've always been a kind of a saver, I guess. You know, my my parents, you know, they beat it into you when you're a kid, save save save.

You know, we've got a new house. We don't need to do anything else there. Um we've got good vehicles. I mean, neither one of us have any desire to buy new vehicles. Right. Um and and I want to make sure that this opportunity is there for my daughter. Mhm. You know, when I'm gone. Yeah.

So, I just don't want this to to trickle away in the next, you know, 30 years or 40 years. I have a good feeling it won't just based on how you're talking to me.

You're probably going to be handing over $10 million to your daughter at this rate. >> Yeah, for sure. I hope you're right.

>> mean, the money, if you just let it sit without adding anything to it, would double every 7 years.

Okay. Yep. So, by the time, you know, if you think about that. 2 million to 4 million

to 8 million to 16 million. Do you see where we're going with this? Yep. Yep.

Yep. And So, I yeah. And so, since you

are a natural saver, Kyle, you know, I would sit down with your financial advisor and kind of you guys map out.

But, part of this, too, is um, you know, create good memories, too, with your daughter. You know, if there's, you know, go on a great trip every year with some of this. You know, and like have some experience and live live life well.

Pay Make sure, you know, she's paying for college. This could be part of golly, her wedding funds, you know, even um, paying for her first starter home or something. You don't even mean I'm like where she never would have debt. Like Like there's some big things that you guys can do with this money that's really wonderful.

And you have the time for it for her specifically, considering she's 6. But, but enjoy some of this, too. Yeah, and it doesn't have to be just stuff.

You guys can afford it. But, find some experiences that you guys can do together as a family. Um, you know, >> got back from a Disney 3D Disney cruise.

Oh, great. So, that was that was a lot of fun. >> That is fun. Yeah. So, like make memories together, too. You know, I think your mom, um, you know, you just kind of think through, okay, what would my parents want for my nuclear family?

And I think they would want peace for you guys. And financially, you know, being debt-free and doing what you guys have done, you you've created that. Um, you know, create some great memories is what I would say as well. But, I think this money, yeah, as you play it out mathematically, um it's going to be plenty for you all in retirement

um and yeah, and to be passing on something to her as well.

All right. Have you funded college?

Uh she has about my mom started a 529 for her and she's got about 28 or 29,000 in there. Oh, that's awesome. I was going to say you could do something called super funding. It's already kind of super funded at six to have 30 grand is awesome, but you might want to put another 10 or 20 grand in there and then never touch it again and just let it ride and she'll be just fine.

That was part of our last meeting with our financial advisor and he he advised us to not just dump a bunch in. He said, "Just trickle a little bit in, you know, couple thousand or few thousand dollars a year." Um Yeah, cuz you guys could just pay out of pocket, too, if she ends up going, you know, you wouldn't get the obviously the Yeah, super funding is basically instead of funding a few grand a year, you just put in 10 grand now and then never add to it.

Okay. >> Cuz mathematically, that'll be the best way if you can lump sum it now and then you won't have to add as much over time in total contributions. So, that's one thing you can do, but that's such a tiny portion of this that it's a drop in the bucket. And so, I would be investing most of this so that you can create generational wealth and I would at least be maxing out, you know, all of your tax advantaged retirement accounts first and then once you run out of options there, move to non-retirement in a taxable brokerage account.

And so, you got a lot of options on the table and I would work with your financial advisor if you trust them to walk you through the best method to invest those dollars, but man, you got a a great problem to have and it what a wonderful legacy Does your Does your wife work, Kyle? She does. She does. Yep.

>> Okay, yep. And and you obviously are working. Yep.

Um I was going to say, yeah, I probably wouldn't change much unless, you know, one of you wanted to stay home and be a stay-at-home parent, you know, if something like that, like there's a big lifestyle shift you guys could do if you wanted, if that's like a value that you guys have. That's what That's one beautiful gift of this money that could happen, but I definitely wouldn't change you know, at least for you or her you know, somebody to still be producing an income. You guys kind of living off of that for your primary source.

Just to Okay. There's a There's kind of a groundingness there. Um and then you kind of have this other fund over here that's growing, but when you want to do something big, it's it's available to you, you know, to be able to take out some money and and enjoy it when the time comes. So, um That's wild.

I mean, they make 200 grand. If they just put 2 million in there and the market does 10% this year, it just replaced their income there.

>> I know. >> [music] >> That's why if you hate your jobs, you know, you can go do something for less money and you're good. Like you know what I mean? >> That's a freedom fund right there.

>> have like that [music] still that purpose, there's something in that that's beautiful. So, um wow, what an amazing testimony you guys of um >> [music] >> God, that does. >> That's how to do it right. >> And money doesn't change the family tree out of this idea of like, oh my gosh, we're suddenly rich.

>> [music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget, so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Well, George, you know, [music] we wish that we could get to every call and every question. >> world. >> But, it's hard. >> We live in a fallen world. We can't get to all of them. We live in a fallen 24 hours in a day. You know, we call some cities uh Armadillo instead of Amarillo. You know, sometimes that happens. So, so we're not perfect. Uh We're fallible creatures.

>> We are. But, here's the thing is most of our advice is consistent, right? What we talk about on this show is what it is.

And for those of you listening and have been listening forever and ever, amen, you could probably answer the questions just as well as me and George. Or that you think you could.

>> think you could. No, but, you know, that that is a great thing because we are

able to use technology because of that, because of so much content that is out there to feed an AI system, if you will.

>> learning model, as they say. >> we Oh, thank you. And we created Ask Ramsey. So, it is our own version of an uh Ramsey AI.

And you can actually go in, ask your question like you were calling the show, talking to one of us, and you will get the answer that we would say on this show because this has been fed, if you will, by I mean, >> transcripts from the show, all the transcripts. >> Yes, of everything, you guys. So, if you have a question about your life and your specific situation, head over to ramseysolutions.com uh and ask your question in the Ask Ramsey box. It's right there for you.

If you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we'll put a link down below, but um you know, technology, you love it and you hate it. And this is a >> This is a love it.

Um you know, if you're not able to to get through. Right now, all of our lines are booked up >> the DMs, I go in my Instagram DMs and like it's three paragraphs or 17 numbers and like I I'm like go use Ask Ramsey. It will walk you Because it will like take all your numbers and do what you need. It's a it really is amazing. So again, check it out at ramseysolutions.com.

All right, we have another person calling from Charlotte, George. We were just there last week. That was a great event, by the way. >> a great time. Thank you to everyone who came out. >> Yes, we're going to be uh in Anaheim next week, George and I are.

>> yeah. Oh my gosh, it's already here.

>> it's sold out. Denver, uh there's a crew that's going to be there tomorrow. It's a lone uh John Delony, Jade Warshaw, and

Ken Coleman. And then Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw, and myself are going to be in Phoenix next week. So um I think there's still some tickets to that one. I think all the other shows are sold out, but Oh, sweet.

Jump on it. >> Yeah, go to ramseysolutions.com for tickets. So a little a little plug for that cuz I see Charlotte on our board and then we had such a fun time. >> people go, "When are you coming to Charlotte?" And we're like, "Dude, we were just there." >> there.

I know, I know, but uh but we are excited to talk to Philip.

Hi George and Rachel, how are you guys doing? We're doing great. How can we help?

Um so um me and my wife currently live in a mobile home um out here near Charlotte and um

my in-laws are currently uh we're about to receive an inheritance of $100,000.

Wow. >> Um and they sat us down the other night and um told us they wanted to pay off our mobile home.

Um I was just calling in to get an answer as to whether there will be any kind of gift tax or um or can they just,

you know, put that money in their account and and pay it off or So this is a you're getting this inheritance while they're still alive? Is Is the idea?

Well, well, my uh my uh wife's grandmother is very sick. He's he's not expected to make it.

So, uh So, the inheritance is going to your wife's parents, and then they want to gift it because they don't need it?

Yes, yes, they they Okay.

So, is the 100 [clears throat] is the $100,000, Philip, going to pay off the mobile home, or they want to in addition pay off the mobile home?

Yeah, it it will. Um uh mobile home payoff is like $31,100, somewhere around there. So, Okay.

But so yes, so are they Sorry, are they using the 100,000 for that though?

They are, yes. >> They are. Okay, so you guys would be left with about 70,000 in cash with a paid off mobile home. So, yes, they can do that. You can Yeah, each individual parent can give each individual child $18,000 a year without it >> 19 now. Big upgrade. Is it 19?

>> They upped it to 19.

>> This this time? Okay. >> For 2026, so that's 19.

>> I had 18 in my head. >> annual gift tax exclusion. And so, if the in-laws are married, you guys are married, that's potentially 76 grand in gift exclusions, which just means they don't have to file the gift tax form that goes against their lifetime, you know, estate exemption. And so, that you can do up to that much. Now, you guys will not owe anything in taxes. It's them that have to deal with Hey, if they give over that $76,000 threshold, they'll have to file a a form. That's all. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

Absolutely. So, just make sure they're aware. Mhm. And if they have, you know, a tax pro they work with, just say, "Hey, just so you guys know, if you do the full $100,000 this year, you might need to file a form for that extra, you know, 24-ish grand." Um Yeah, Philip, are you guys Do you guys have plans to move out of that home at all? No, no. We're not. We're we're staying. We're here for the long haul. So, uh What long haul?

Until it's worth nothing? For the foreseeable future. >> that's the part that worries me is that mobile homes going down in value. Yeah, make sure you guys are saving on the side, Phillip. That one day, you know, if you guys um yeah, from a value standpoint, from the the value of the mobile home, it will start going down.

Um so, making sure that you guys have some money saved that if you need to upgrade and/or go buy a house or something, you know, that you guys have you're not you're not building any equity right now, if you will. And that's where a lot of people build a lot of their wealth from a home perspective is in their equity in their home. So, just be thinking about that on the just the side that maybe you put I don't know, maybe this this other 70,000 away for who knows, you know, maybe a down payment down the road.

So, just be thinking about that.

All right, let's head to Colton in Asheville. Hi, Colt Colton, welcome to the show. Hey, uh thanks for taking my call. Um

so, I've got a question about my retirement account. Um basically, my

financial advisor's wanting me to do something that just doesn't make any sense to me. I was hoping I could get your advice. Um I worked for a company for 2 and 1/2

years, and during that time, I went

through Financial Peace University, and I realized that instead of putting my retirement into a pre-tax account, I should do the after-tax um 403b. So,

I've got two accounts there.

Um I don't work there anymore, but they are changing from Transamerica Retirement

Solutions to some other company.

And so, they called me and said

like they wanted me to keep my money with Transamerica. Like Transamerica called me. And And so, they want me to pull it out of that account, and then put it into a Roth IRA with them.

And I thought that sounded a little sketchy, so I called my

uh advisor, and he said,

"Don't do that, um but

let's pull it out and put it into a normal IRA um here at Edward Jones. Um

but I'm most likely going to be going back to work with that company like in the next few weeks, um and it'll be a long-term position.

So, I don't know if it even makes any sense to take it away from that company or just let them uh change to their new retirement solution company and keep it with them and start investing back into it.

Well, I would just hang on tight until we know what's going to happen in the next few weeks. If you go back to that job, just you just reopen that 403b and

keep investing. But, it's not bad advice to say once you leave a job, you should do a direct rollover to an IRA cuz you don't have control over that anymore. The employer doesn't want to manage this old fund. It's like keeping your stuff at your ex's house.

And it could be getting dinged with fees at the same time. And the IRA gives you basically unlimited options to invest where your employer plan might have 10 to 15 funds to choose from. Yeah, so Colt, we do always suggest, yeah, when you leave a company, you roll over your 401k or 403b to a traditional IRA.

That's great. If it's traditional 401k money or 403b money. >> If it was Roth, yes, that would be different. Um but, since you may be going back there, yeah, instead of dealing with all the hassle, >> it out.

If you don't go back, I would roll it over. Um you can do it through your advisor, you can do that on your own. There's a lot of options here, but they're not giving you bad advice. And an example is my wife worked at Ramsey for 9 years.

Well, when she left, we rolled over her money. She had some in traditional, some in Roth. We rolled over the Roth side to a Roth IRA, rolled over the traditional side to a traditional IRA. And it was direct rollover, so we didn't see the money.

It was not in our bank account.

>> Yep. So good. Well, yep, hope that helps, Colton. And um yeah, good luck with all the transitions. [music] I hope you kind of get settled and and feel good about where you end up.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

[music]

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates. But when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling, they're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseysolutions.com/agent.

>> [music]

>> Our [music] scripture of the day comes from 1 Peter 4:8.

Above all, love each other deeply because love [music] covers a multitude of sins. Tina Fey said, "There are no mistakes, only opportunities." Thank you, Tina Fey. What a What an original, you know?

>> She's a a poet and a comedian. >> We We love We love Tina Fey and Amy Poehler. All right, let's head to Phoenix, where we're going to be next week. Hi Emily, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are you guys doing? We're doing great. What are you doing next Tuesday night, Emily?

I'm not sure, probably working. Probably

working, okay. Well, we'll have Christian pick up at the end of the call and if you are open, I thought we I think Yeah, we can snag you two seats to our Ramsey Show Live.

>> the Mesa Arts Center, April 21st, 7:00

p.m. We can even have you at VIP at 5:00 if you're free. >> Oh my goodness, that'd be amazing. Okay.

>> Okay, stay on the line, Christian will pick up. We'll get you some tickets. >> Rachel makes dreams come true. >> Hey Emily, I did this two weeks ago.

John John Delony and I were hosting and a guy called in from Charlotte and I said, "We're going to be there next week in Charlotte." And he's like, "Really?" So I got him two tickets, met him in the signing line. He said, "I said I'm going to give you the tickets too." So Emily, I hope I meet you next week. >> Outrageous generosity. Yes, George won't be there, but Jade Warshaw and John Coleman will be. But All right, Emily, how can we help today?

Okay, um so right now, I'm a massage therapist. I make about 58,000 annually,

um but I'm currently $65,000 in debt. Mhm. Um right now, we the last

six months we've been staying at my mother-in-law's house just um save some money and get caught up. But um I just recently found out that there's um the house cuz it's an older house, so it's covered in like mold. So we're trying to we're trying to we need to get out as soon as possible. But my main concern um

so in 2018, um I went in with my family and we bought a multi-generational house, but then um of course things ended up in

badly. So um we all like two people are

are living there currently, but the other um we all left but my main concern

is that I was [clears throat] I brought it up to get refinanced to possibly them buying me out but they're just not budging at all or even to like if we could sell the home and each split it the three ways but yeah they're just not budging at all so I'm just kind of I don't know what I can do. >> Is that the $65,000 in debt is the home situation or is that above?

>> yeah that's a different thing that that's my own some is in 43 I think it's in credit cards and $9,000 personal loan and then also I believe it's $13,000 for my car loan.

Okay. >> Was there an agreement when you guys bought this home of how this all works?

>> yeah we didn't sign it on paper but essentially we were supposed to get the get the home and then the next person was like there was three different families.

And then the next person we were going to get the equity for another home and then that one would build equity and we'd get another so essentially we thought we were going to have three different homes but it didn't end up panning out that way. >> So you guys are just riding on vibes right now and it's just well we don't want to do that and we didn't sign anything.

There's still $250,000 left the home currently is $425,000

worth. Mhm. And what's the plan for the people that are living there now what what are they saying?

They're just saying mostly mainly my mother she just doesn't she thinks it should be a forever home that all the cuz I have four sisters so it's like all of us They ain't living forever in a in a mold covered home I'll tell you that much. I mean it's going to crush her health does she not understand that? Oh no so it's currently my my mother-in-law's is the one that >> has the mold. Yeah yeah. There she's the the other home is different okay got you.

Okay and you're married Emily How much do you guys bring home a month, you and your husband combined?

Um, I make 58. I believe he makes 50 as

well, but right now he's like our finances are separate. He's trying to pay off his stuff while we're at his mother's, and then I'm trying to pay off my stuff. Okay, how much What kind of debt does he have? Um, he also has a car loan himself, and then he also has, I believe, $9,000 in credit card. Okay, why are you guys doing it separately?

I And that That's always been that way.

We I don't think we've ever combined >> Combined money. How How long have you guys been married?

Um, we've been married um 2023, but

we've been together for 13 years. Okay.

Um, well, what I would probably do

if I were you guys, I'm trying to think, your cars, loans, everything.

Um, what What did you rack up $43,000 of credit card debt with?

Um, well, I have two small children, and it was just like um one thing after another. He had lost his job for like 2 years, so it was just trying to So, he lost his job for 2 years. Your Your ex-husband or your current husband?

Um, my current husband. And you helped float his financial life. Yes.

>> But, we're not combining finances, only when he needs help.

Yeah. Okay.

So, what I would do, Emily, is that this is a bigger question. It's more of a shift in the relationship. But, what we find, couples who work together and say, "Hey, this is our household income. Here are our household bills.

Your debt is my debt." Like, we're we're in this financial life together. They

win faster. They get out of debt faster.

They build wealth faster. When you're trying to do your own thing, it's going to take you both longer. But, when you have synergy, not only from a mathematical perspective, but also a teamwork perspective, um it does It It just goes so much faster. So, that's a really big conversation cuz you guys have done your own thing for about 15 years with money. Yes. But what I would do I would I would I would really yeah, I would push you guys to combine

and and work together and you guys will list out your debts together, you know, like his his $9,000 in credit card debt, your $9,000 personal loan together you guys like make a plan and say hey, what if we lived on 60 grand and we had 40 45,000 dollars,

you know, this year to pay off debts, you know, what could we knock out and you start together doing a plan and and

you guys could be out of debt in two two and a half years if you really really focused on this, but you couldn't do that separately. You would be slowly

doing it cuz you're paying some bills over here. He's paying some, so It's all disjointed right now. >> Yes. So I would yeah, I I would have a a relationship conversation and combine your money.

Got it. Okay. And what is your share of the house that you co-own? How much would you actually get if they bought you out? Um I'm really just asking I'm just the 43,000 for credit card.

Um I own a third of the the mortgage and the deed.

So yeah, so you own a third of the house. If they were to buy you out, how much would you net?

Um I just wanted the 43 is what I just asked for. I don't I don't know I'm not sure. You just want the 43 even though you own more of it.

Exactly. Okay. >> Just want to get out of what Well, I mean the one thing you can do is to get a real estate attorney and you can do something called a partition action where a court can order and force the sale of the home, uh but you need to kind of get some details down. What's the home actually worth? Get the home appraised and then what's your share?

How much are you wanting? And then present a formal written buyout offer cuz right now nothing has been written down. It's all just messy dysfunctional family dynamics.

>> continue to get messier as time goes on, honestly, Emily. So, organization is your best friend right now.

That includes getting on the same page with your husband, combining the finances, attacking your debts as one.

That will help all of this.

All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you.

>> Absolutely, Emily. Thanks for the call.

Yes, thank you. Um yeah, that's Yeah, hold on the line, too, Emily, if you're still there, and we can see if we can get you tickets to Phoenix, and bring your husband. This is a perfect way to get on the You know what? Ask your question Hey, our finances are separate. Yeah.

>> Here's why. And have the jury weigh in on the stage. >> there, too. We can all talk it out in the Ramsey Show Live.

This is why we love this event. Um but it was so kind. >> and Rachel can solve pretty much any quandary. So kind.

>> I believe in you guys. >> but this is the um this is the warning call of when people co-mingle from a family perspective, real estate. They have this dream that hey, let's buy a piece of land, we'll plot it out, and everyone can build a home. Well, when one person >> seven homes one day.

>> And when when when one person wants to move out of state cuz the spouse, you know, got a job, and they got to sell their home to a stranger, it messes up the whole thing. Or or this, you know, we're all going to go in on a home together, and you can have this equity, I'll have this, and it's going to be great. Um Will it though?

>> on zero fingers how many calls we've gotten where like, "This was the biggest blessing in my life that I co-owned it with my mother-in-law, my sister." I know. >> three of them want out, one of them doesn't. It's a nightmare. [music] >> nightmare.

And so, yep, just a just a warning, you guys, for all of [music] that. But, uh George, great show. Thanks to everyone in the booth, and thank you everyone for listening.

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## 175. The Ramsey Show (June 9, 2023)


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foreign

live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving in storage Studio this is the

Ramsey show where we help people win in

their life specifically their money their relationships and their work I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by fellow Ramsay

personality my esteemed colleague George Campbell it is always good to be with you I threw in the esteem today I've never felt more esteemed well we haven't been on together in a while due to our busy life schedule so it's always good to be in the in the studio with uh the

one and the only George Campbell energy is palpable it's palpable the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five George

is ready I'm ready and I think Sammy might be ready in Orlando Florida Sammy how can we help hey guys how y'all doing we are having a blast already what's going on love to hear it hey um I'm just calling to ask advice on what I should do regarding wanting to start a business um I currently work at a hotel I fold laundry and I do room service making 13 an hour and um I am 17 going to my senior year

next year and I just wanted some advice on how to

go about that and how to introduce it to my family yeah tell me about the business of the business um it's a great on demand business run through Etsy using an AI image generator to make the designs so you basically tell the AI what you want to create it creates it for you you sell those designs on Etsy

um and make the profit because there's no production costs have you tested this yes I have and how's it going oh it's good I um I started okay well last week I

actually uploaded products and started making I haven't made any sales but I

have gotten a lot of visits I think so far 76 visits to my website so how much money everybody else

has it sold anything yet okay so what a

week into this test real fresh yeah yeah very fresh yeah and so it's interesting uh you said how do I tell my family or how do I talk to my family about it which leads me to believe that you're nervous about something or maybe even fearful is this true yeah definitely um it's just that my parents never went to college so it's like when they were raising us they were really strong on getting good grades um doing well in school so you can go to college to work a 95 a safe job and

honestly I just don't feel like that's the route for me if that makes sense I understand that but I think we need to separate you trying this Etsy business from this big giant conversation about your path in life yeah and separate the two so are you still in high school yeah yeah um I just I just finished junior year okay good so you've got another year of high school to begin to

uh to think about how you're going to have this conversation with Mom and Dad and and and and and I'm going to give you some thoughts on that but this idea of just telling Mom and Dad that I've launched at Etsy business I don't is there any tension there just telling them hey I started doing this we're trying it I've mentioned it to them and I did tell them that

I started uploading products but I could tell they were a little iffy about it and um like it wasn't really like they weren't really happy I guess what was their objection if any oh um they didn't say anything specifically but it's just the way they responded to it they didn't seem like um there was like that like that good of an idea I guess you could say well

first of all that stinks and it hurts right yeah let's just be honest anytime we tell our parents something I mean I'm I'm in my 40s and if my mom and dad are going don't get excited about something I feel a little tinged there you know and truthfully they probably don't fully understand it I think that's and that's kind of the like tilt head question mark they understand

if you go to an office job and you have a title they can tell their friends about it's harder to go oh he has he has an Etsy have you heard of etsy he's got an Etsy shop and he does these t-shirts it's harder to explain and it doesn't make them look as good yeah and so that part I wouldn't get hung up on yeah I think

you ought to spend more time trying to figure out how to get more traffic and then George you actually have some background with this uh I'm I'm just I'm putting you on the spot because you can handle it George but he's had 76 visits to the site that's not a lot and he hasn't sold anything yet what's he looking for because you've done digital marketing you've been a marketer

and you've also got some technology Savvy what do you think well number one you're reliant on Etsy and the way the Etsy game is played is it's kind of a pay to play to show up in the top rankings so here's what's going to happen Sammy there's going to be a lot of competition in the AI space now you're not the only guy out there who's had

the creative idea to do AI print on demand I think it's a great idea let me just put that out there you could probably do really well with it but you've got to have a long-term game plan of what happens when there's 30 000 people who are also doing print on demand who have more money and resources and talent and time than you so yeah pursue it

but I wouldn't go putting my eggs in the basket until I go I have a for six months straight I've increased my revenue and this is enough for me to actually create a profitable business long term yeah Sammy my advice on this is and George is right so taking George's advice your mindset needs to be I'm going to pursue this to learn from it not pursue it to get rich from

it and that's going to change your expectations just learn everything you can learn there's no risk here you've already outlined that if you've got a good head on your shoulders now let me transition very quickly to having this very big and

important conversation with Mom and Dad over the next year because you're you're a rising senior um Mom and Dad's want the best for their

kids and when Mom and Dad are afraid

that the choices their kids are making aren't the best ones that's when they have the highest objection you understand that don't you see me yeah definitely okay so telling Mom and Dad

this is what I'm doing

deal with it and I'm not suggesting you're going to go that route but even just laying it out that way even with the sweetest of tone they're they're going to get really fearful and so my advice to young people uh in this

situation where you go I don't think college is for me let's go find out for sure if College is not a necessary path so two questions for you that you need to answer for yourself before we talk to Mom is is college the only way to do what I think I want to do is it the best way if the answers clearly no then we've got some real anecdotal evidence

we could sit down with Mom and Dad and we're very thoughtful and they can see you've done your homework and you show them an alternate path so for instance if you want to get into coding and you go hey Mom and Dad I can go to a coding school for twenty thousand and be done in nine

months uh or or whatever versus go to a

school that I can't afford and they begin to see oh Sammy's got a clear path it makes sense it's got a nice trajectory for him financially long term and he's figured out an alternate way besides a college degree to get there and it's a proven way George now all of a sudden I think Mom and Dad are like okay this isn't some big scary you've

presented us yeah when you actually go I'm creating a great income from this and I don't have any college debt to show for it with some useless degree I think they're going to respect you even if they don't approve of the path and it's not what they would have done that's okay but I think you coming at this respectfully going I don't want to waste a lot of time

and money pursuing this I'm going to get an education in a different way I want a pursue entrepreneurship they may have some ideas and go great let's get you a business degree just to get another another notch in the belt yeah I think parents support George is commensurate to how clear your plan is and they can

see aha this is doable and they mean the

best so don't let them get you down they're actually trying to protect you he's George Campbell I'm Ken Coleman this is the Ramsay show your calls we're right around the corner

[Music] foreign

[Music]

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thank you

foreign

[Music]

welcome back America you are listening to the Ramsey show where we are here for

you it's your show America we're answering your questions so that you can win in your money in your relationships and your work all three of those areas of our life are tied together if you're losing in one of those areas it is going to impact the other it's just a simple fact I'm Ken Coleman joined by George camel we are here for you this hour the phone number is toll-free jump in at triple eight eight two five five two two

five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five I wanna go to you George here because I saw you did this uh you did a little poll uh

on on the gram on the gram and here was

the question for the poll I love it I said if you're a credit card user what is the biggest thing holding you back from getting rid of the cards all right that's how I posed the question I got tons of responses how many people responded to you uh a few hundred at least all right so this is anecdotally this is science basically this yes that's right and

I got a lot of the natural responses that we've gotten for 30 years right it's the points the cash back the rewards I love getting my free flight I need it to to book hotels and rent cars and I got to keep up my credit score so I can get a house and get car loans and all these things but the one that shocked me Ken uh-huh a lot of people said fear fear of just fear that's why

I dug in I did I

dm'd I said tell me more about that elaborate yes because that means a lot of things to a lot of people some people did admit they said hey this is a safety blanket it's a crutch I if something

goes wrong I know I'm covered with my line of credit thanks to 28 interest from the credit card company so what a blessing right but I wanted you to address this idea of fear because you've been leading a financial peace class virtually and this has come up a lot yeah when it comes to the thousand dollar emergency fund scares me I can't cut up the card because what

if what if what if right there's so much fear and some of it stems from their childhood they told me hey I grew up poor we grew up not having money oh we grew up or if one paycheck didn't show up we were screwed yeah and so I have a lot of empathy for those that have that fear but you've talked a lot about this on your show whether it's career or money fear is holding people back in a whole lot of ways yeah well a couple things on that most of

the time if you actually look at the data the things that we worry about which is another placeholder for fear you know because I think fear is defined as I'm worried that something bad is going to happen I just think that's the way I define fear and I think that's really true and so most of the time the things we worry about rarely happen so let's just that's just some basic psychology study right

there where they like the things we worry about most of the time never actually happen so there's that the second thing is is that

people are afraid that they're going to be destitute broke so far behind the eight ball that they never recovered that they forget that the credit card is going to hit them for 28 percent versus and let's give you a real life example let's say an HVAC system goes out okay because this is one of the things that popped up on our FPU class I've got an old HVAC system I'm gonna have to replace it it's on its last leg I don't want to be in the house all summer in sweltering heat not be able to

sleep and by the way I get all that I don't minimize any of that it's like yeah I get it all right so they think the credit card then is the safety net so if we have to put eight grand into an HVAC system or six grand or whatever it is well we put it on the credit card no problem but now we're paying 28 interest as opposed to going the HVAC company and going hey here's my situation here's my

financials I need this HVAC system we're

we're stuck so we either are with ceiling fans and you know and just fans or whatever we're gonna or we've or replaces let's say it's in the winter time and you go to the HVAC company and go listen I can cash flow this and I will cash flow it you know and just having a human conversation with somebody yeah but just relying on the credit card puts

you in more stress and more problems because while you take care of the immediate need you're stuck with it for a long time and so I think it depends George on the specific fear uh but a lot of people just feel like I'm not going to be able to be comfortable and take care of my life and uh Les who was on with me or one of our FPU coaches

we talked about AC going in my car one time it went and

this is when we first lived here in Nashville the first time and we were working the baby steps and I couldn't afford I could have but I

didn't want to stop the momentum so George I got up earlier and drove into the office an hour earlier so that I wasn't sweating profusely to get into the office that's okay at the end of the day it didn't matter I was going home and then one day I was driving home George and insult to injury I came up to a stoplight and was almost like uh

the debt gods were trying to embarrass me I got no AC I'm sweating hair all over the place because the windows are down and that I don't know what you call that your roof liner inside the car just all of a sudden detached out of nowhere and it was sitting on top of my head I felt it at a stoplight I look up and this way and

you know how embarrassing that is yeah because you think that everyone at the stoplight is going look at this loser over there it's a hundred degrees in Nashville he's got the roof interior

carpet hanging on his head I went home was so mad I got the staple gun out of the uh out of the storage that's therapeutic right there two Staples in the top took care of that problem and cost me nothing wow well what are you afraid of yeah you afraid of being embarrassed at the stoplight I get it that's a good question is you know a lot of people like to they're very optimistic

when it comes to their own stupidity they're they're going yeah we're gonna open the card will be great they're very optimistic when it comes to justifying their spending habits their decisions and very pessimistic when it comes to following a proven plan where they go yeah having a thousand bucks is scary and you should be scared and the problem is when you have the credit card still there

you have a false sense of security yes you have a false sense of comfort and the book The Comfort crisis you guys have been talking about this a lot with Dave I think we're too comfortable I think part of the reason America is where it is today yeah broke in debt anxious miserable stressed is because we're aiming for comfort and convenience and the easiest path the path of least resistance

the most convenient path instead of going dang it I really got to work that extra job to get out of debt even faster and that's what I love about baby step one I don't love that you're scared to death but I love that it puts a fire under you to go I wasn't safe ever I had the illusion of safety that's right and then once you have

the emergency fund and baby step three you got out of debt you don't need the credit card like but you don't understand that mentality of what if because I don't think that they've been taught this so I think this is like I want to tee you up to teach on this let's say that the thing happens we've

got a thousand dollars in baby step one but then a seven or eight or ten

thousand dollar or even a 1500 expense like oh it's not enough Ken yeah but my point is they're all worried about this big thing above and beyond a thousand dollars yeah what do you teach what would you tell them if you're sitting one-on-one with them and go okay this is seven eight thousand you only got a thousand what are their options well number one we say pause

the baby steps right if you've got kind of a storm and in that case we're gonna we're gonna pay all the minimums on the debt so we're gonna cover the basic bills everything else all the luxuries throughout the window right now because we gotta sell everything we can work as much as we can to find that Gap to make that margin once you've got that expense covered or back on track we're attacking

the debt and in most situations uh I've seen they

end up not needing the full thousand or they pause it and they end up cash flowing it and make sure you have the right Insurance in place this is something we teach because most emergencies you know Health Emergency you're going to have up to your deductible and then you're covered right and your auto insurance make sure you've got the right coverage there these kinds of things help me sleep at night to make sure that I'm covered in case of something crazy happening

but a lot of times it's psychological and it's them justifying why they want to keep the card around Georgina the old phrase where there's a will there's a way in other words it means you know if I'm willing to figure it out I'll find a way do you poke holes in that when it comes to this very scenario or do you believe that that holds true I'll find a way to not use a credit card I'll find a way to pay

it off I'll find a way but I'm not going to use a credit card for an emergency well when you take debt off the table if you just in your mind pretend and go credit cards are not an option debt is not an option what would I do if this was the 1930s and debt wasn't marketed as heavily as it is today what would I do you'd go all right I'm gonna go sell some stuff I'm gonna go get

the side job I'm gonna cut down all my expenses to Bare Bones I'm going to work out a plan a payment plan with the HVAC guy to pay this thing off and we're going to figure it out so my challenge to everyone out there is could you live 90 days without using your credit card put it in ice in the freezer lock it up somewhere stick to a debit card in cash

and for 90 days and

DM me if you're going to do this challenge I want to report back 90 days from now and see how it changes you financially spiritually emotionally if it gets you further down the line to where you want to be financially wow I love that George it's a good challenge at George Campbell on the ground right there with a K don't wear it out and if you're over

the age of 50 that means Instagram thank you for that caveat there you go all right hey uh we gotta take a quick break but I mean it is quick and when we come back more of your calls they're lining up this is the Ramsay show [Music]

we've been doing business at Ramsey for more than 30 years by now we're a well-oiled machine but it wasn't always that way yes we've always had a vision always had determination and a drive to help people but what we didn't have was one central place to access all our numbers so that we could get further ahead or quickly see when we needed to Pivot we were always jumping back and forth between different systems and spreadsheets so when netsuite by Oracle

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[Music]

[Music]

the Ramsey Show continues I'm Ken Coleman joined by George Campbell the phone number to jump in this hour is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five paying off dead is smart saving and investing is smart but there's another key to winning with money that a lot of people Overlook and that is protecting your finances from emergencies

and that's where insurance comes into play George you love you some insurance I really do I don't know why it's fascinating to me yeah you've always really been good at this content and uh and so there's 10 kinds of insurance coverage George that I know you know uh that you might need and we've got out of two it feels like thousands so we've really curated the only ones

you need to think about you always make me laugh if I ever need a good laugh I could just walk over to your desk and I could say George tell me about a ridiculous insurance coverage and you would say falling coconut Insurance that's real that's a real Insurance do I

want to buy it yeah do I need it no I

just want to be able to tell my friends yeah hey get that falling coconut Insurance yeah this is a real problem in some countries Ken it really is it's not making the headlines it would be a great lead-in to you announcing to your friends and family you were going on a Caribbean vacation maybe you guys have

fallen coconut insurance for the Bermuda trip yeah yeah want to make sure everybody's prepared you don't need that one well you don't need that one but we've got you covered um the coverage checkup is is a great tool that we've built for you and it's going to tell you the types you need to add drop or adjust we even rank your coverage by importance email it to

you and connect you with a Ramsay trusted insurance provider so that you can make the changes or the additions that you need and this only takes about five minutes one of our

users wrote in his name is Donald he

goes uh for anyone who has not completed this checkup do it now you never know when something will happen and you never want to leave your family in a bad situation we agree Donald so go to ramseysolutions.com checkup that's ramseysolutions.com checkup final word

on that George uh I was just thinking

about some calls we took last week that were real sad because people didn't have the right Insurance in place medical Auto not the right liability coverage all those things matter so double check it today absolutely all right let's go to David who joins us now in Dallas Texas David how can we help hey you can't hit George thanks for taking my call you bet I have a question

with some of the excess income that I have so um just for some background I'm uh just about 27 years old um and I'm through all the baby steps

through step four I should say no debt I've got about ten thousand dollars and a savings account that's essentially my emergency fund and um in terms of other

Investments that I have i max out my retirement uh max out in HSA I'm

actually at a stock purchasing program through my employer you guys don't necessarily like that but we'll get to that a little bit later um and so uh after all of those uh

allocations um I take home roughly forty six hundred dollars a month and when you take out expenses uh I expect to be left with

something around forty four thousand dollars for the year that I um I just

don't really have anything and so that I necessarily need to do with it um I'm single don't have kids I don't have a house so I pay rent that rents about 1200 bucks a month and so I'm just curious uh what you guys's opinion is about what I should do with that Surplus did you say your take-home pay was 4400

yeah it's about yeah 4 600 a month but

then you said you have excess essentially 3 600 a month

how does that work if your rent alone is 1200.

the numbers just weren't adding up for me the I have 4 600 a month that I take

home um after all those deductions that I just mentioned and then rent is about oh sorry I should mention too that I have about eight thousand dollars that I get in income um from Investments uh that I've made so it's really about uh 3 600 that I get from work um uh from that 4 600 and then for the year I get another eight thousand dollars so that's not just from your income okay correct so do you are you a

homeowner currently is that a goal for you I'm not a homeowner currently I would say that a home is probably not in the picture for at least another uh three

years okay why is that is that a job

lifestyle lifestyle more than anything else um I like where I live I live around a lot of friends and family um and uh specifically in the section that I live in homes are fairly expensive and uh I just I like the

situation I'm in right now okay well my

next goal for you if you're walking through the baby steps you don't have kids your single would be to pay off a home early and it's a great part of your wealth building journey and so I'd recommend you're in a great spot to be able to do that sooner rather than later and if you've seen home prices three years ago versus today A lot of people are going goodness gracious

if I had the money I wish I bought three years ago so that's my only concern for you is that home prices are a moving Target in three years from now especially in your area they're going to be astronomically more expensive but outside of that you just get to live give and uh you know if you want to upgrade the car you want to increase the emergency fund you're doing all

the right things you've got this savings and investing muscle down I want to see you Flex it more in the giving and spending side my guess is you don't spend a whole lot of money foreign maybe a little more than you would expect I definitely enjoy uh going to sporting events and doing some traveling so there is some income there anything that happens there but uh it's not hugely

it doesn't put a big dent um in My overall uh income good well I

would set some goals right now with your goal list and if just the goal is investing for the future that's fine you can park it in some index funds if you've got a home purchase down the line but I would want to put it down on a house sooner rather than later for sure yeah thanks for the call David all right let's go to Los Angeles next John is

there John how can we help hey gentlemen how's it going oh we're having a blast John what what can we do for you hey um so I'm on babysat 3 my wife and I

um on 30 she's 27.

um we're we just paid off a hundred thousand dollars in debt and um yeah um so we're aiming to have our three months by September nice but really just

you know after the pandemic trying to have vision for our life longer term I wanted to ask you know for the early baby stop baby step adopters what do you

suggest to do as a gap fund um for those who want to semi-retire in their early 50s or mid 50s since you can't take out of a 401k until 59 and a half good question okay so we'll call that work optional where you get to choose what you do how much you work uh versus I got to keep this job because I need the money correct yeah yeah well so I would max out all retirement options first which would be you know your 401ks IRAs hsas

all of that stuff and beyond that what people use in order to do that is called the taxable brokerage account so this is just money outside of retirement that you invest and let's say you're 50 and you're not going to be able to tap into the 401K till 59 and a half you've got to have enough money in that account to tide you over for nine and a half years

and that's very dependent on your your goals your lifestyle your expenses all of that so you've got about 20 years to plan that out which is great yeah now let me just tell you something John what do you think you think you're just gonna not work and all of a sudden have plenty to do uh there are a lot of retirees that are getting back into it

because it wasn't all that it was cracked up to be so I love the strategy and it gives you options my friend but as you get to that

age uh know that um you need to be very

very active and even with Hobbies you might want to be doing something more productive and just keep that in mind we've got a lot of these these young people and I'm not saying it's his situation but you're familiar with this this financially independent retire early big movement and this is not John Let's be very clear but a lot of them are they're working crazy hours I mean give them credit crazy work ethic

but they're working to try to make a certain Nest Egg by 40 and never work again and we're beginning to see some of the leaders of that movement who have already announced uh they either get bored or go back to work right and uh there's there's something to that this idea of being productive and doing something and I like how you called it work optional what does that look like what does that feel like

but I'd rather sink my teeth into something I love for the next 20 years instead of something I hate in order to retire early yeah and here's what I want people to understand we're all about investing so you have options but I think retirement as a I'm never gonna work again is overrated there's a lot on Netflix to catch up on Ken Financial Peace is not overrated

and options are not and and our investment strategy is going to get you there all right good stuff all right don't move more of your calls coming up this is the Ramsay show [Music]

thank you [Music]

[Music]

foreign

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by my colleague George Campbell the phone number to jump in on the conversations triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna talk about your money we'll talk about your relationships and your work because all of those are just very very

relevant to you having a peaceful and

successful life triple eight eight two five five two two five Amarillo Texas is

where Manny joins us Manny how can we help hey guys thanks for taking my call but I'm just really torn and kind of stressed about the situation I'm in

um just to give you guys a little background I just graduated college last December I played football in college had a pretty successful career there and

uh Fort Hayes it's a D2 yeah in Hayes Kansas receiver nice all right George doesn't

understand any of that we just I'm learning so I'm taking frivolous notes but I find to be interesting and I'm trying to bring him along when I can anytime we can talk sports on the show it's good for George it's a touchdown yeah there you go yeah but uh I had a

pretty successful college career so I gave him my best shot at the NFL ended up talking to some Scouts and everything and um short short story basically didn't end up making it didn't end up getting a call so now I'm I'm back home I've been

applying to some jobs and now I'm kind of torn between should I do um a Commission job or should I do I've applied to both um jobs I've gotten a job offer in Dallas commission um financial advisor and I think I think that would be awesome I think I would do great at that but my parents don't know

if that's the greatest decision um why I don't have um just because the rent there is super expensive um and honestly I don't have much money to my name right now um and but at the same time you know there's no commissioned cab but there's no there's no base and that's kind of why they're they're really worried right now and I got a job offer somewhere else

that's just 50 000 annually and um I

don't know if I should just take the 50 000 that way I know what I'm making or if I should bet on myself um my parents said they would help me with the rent a few months but at the same time you know I don't want them I'm 23 years old so I don't want them to be yeah worrying about me you know I feel like I should be worried about myself well my colleague George Campbell is there's no one better on

the planet to address this whole rent issue all right so I'm gonna bring George in a second but I'm going to focus in on what I heard and what I heard was option A

as you presented to us two job opportunities option A is a job that you

described in detail and you described with great excitement and then you told us about Job B but I know nothing about it other than it offers you a fifty thousand dollar base and so when I listen to that it makes it very clear to me tell me if I'm wrong that the job in Dallas that is in the financial advising investing space you're genuinely excited about it and even though it's straight Commission the athlete in you the competitor in you

you want to give that a shot and B

option b literally when you think about it your soul starts to seep out of one of your ears that's the what I'm hearing is this true or false that is very true but the reason I feel like that for option b is because you know I can work there for 10 or 10 uh 10 years and then get a five thousand dollar raise well it's still you know like I'll never be financially stable

if I do look at that it doesn't matter what your reason is the point is we have some real enthusiasm and fire for option A and if Mom and Dad uh uh are willing to

help you and you can swallow your pride for a couple months uh until you figure it out I'm open to that but this is where I want to bring Georgia and George I mean I get what Mom and Dad are saying Dallas is expensive or certainly more expensive than Amarillo but I think he's got more options than he realizes where he may not even have to tap mom and dad's money for a couple of months yeah so what would rent be for on your own

we're looking about fourteen fifteen hundred dollars okay what about a two bedroom where you get a roommate uh I don't currently know anyone in Dallas I've thought about that um yeah okay I think that's it we can overcome that with mutual friends and Facebook groups and all kinds of things and good vetting you're not going to have a crazy roommate but let's say you had a great roommate and you got a two bedroom for what 1600 1700

yeah probably about 17. great now your rent is 8.50 and now we can reasonably even if we don't make a hundred thousand dollars the first year we're able to afford that and could you work nights and evenings while you get your book of business going for your financial advising role

yeah yes sir and when when do they want you to start

um second week in July so how much money if we worked our tails

off could we make between now and moving to Dallas where you've got yourself set up for two to three months we're not even asking mom and dad for money could you do that

um yeah I could do that I mean it's coming pretty quick maybe a few weeks but I could I could probably gather up some money for sure I'm just saying man you're an athlete do you have any debt yeah go work hard I got school for free

yeah amazing you got no debt let's get a little pile of money for some moving expenses and to you know get settled in I'm telling you man George he can make a thousand two thousand bucks between Selling Stuff doing stuff working like crazy at least I'm gonna challenge you that uh to do that Manny here's the other question I have that I want George to hear uh on

this money and budgeting thing as you get started is this a true straight commission gig or are they going to give you some type of a very small base or is it straight Commission

something that I really like is that it's you broke up is it straight Commission

it's straight commission okay and then what are they telling you as what they believe if you do things the way they train you what do they think uh your ramp up period looks like to where you actually start making your first commission what are they telling you

um a couple months until I make actual money but um I projected first year is

94 so I don't know just like you said the athlete in me just wants to go for it and work my tail off you listen you

tried out for the NFL from a D2 football program I understand uh what kind of a leap that is I'm not

worried about you and I think you tell Mom and Dad look I'm betting on myself Mom and Dad I'm gonna be fine I'm not gonna end up under a bridge and I think George gave you some very good tactics here George and I think I think if he saves up some money he really works hard to try to find a roommate or here's one why don't you try to find a a an old lady in Dallas who's got a room over a garage like Matt Damon in

The Rainmaker I mean this is possible I'm serious you can get creative for sure if you want it badly enough I'm the guy who moved across the country with the hopes starting here at Ramsey Solutions as an intern and attempt and I I think you're going to look back with a regret if you don't do this that's exactly right so and keep in mind we put a restraining order on George for a while

but it was a thing after it was lifted he finally made it here uh you know George this is I love this thank you for the call uh Manny we really believe in you and I think there's a lot of Manny's out there right there really are and and and I love where again you just said look there is a way to figure out how to not get

the nicest brand newest shiniest most expensive apartment where all the hipsters are at at the pool you know and when I first moved here I was way out of town I wasn't close to downtown Nashville I had a roommate or two I got

my rent low my expenses were low I wasn't going out to eat every weekend you remember the numbers uh roughly yeah I want to say when I first moved here it was like 1200 bucks and so my rent was 600 uh it was an old friend from college

that had also a lot of times you're gonna say an old fart the way it was an old fart no I didn't live with an old person I would I think it'd be great to live with an elderly folk it would be you wouldn't have to worry about noise no they'd always go there before 9 30 after they're watching Murder She Wrote I would watch Golden Girls reruns with him I'm an old soul

but there's a great lesson there if Manny wants it badly enough he's gonna figure it out and that is absolutely what we're saying here and uh what are your thoughts on Mom and Dad you know we don't know the situation I don't want to project too much on them but again we were talking about fear earlier in this hour mom and dad have a healthy dose of fear

when Manny goes I want to go to Dallas and I want to do this and it comes from a good place yeah a lot of the times it's not toxic they just want their kid to be successful whether it's for their own reputation or because no one wants to see their kid fail yeah they don't want to see their kids struggle yeah but I think them letting him experience

this whether he fails or not is the healthiest thing they can do I think that's true so good all right young man thank you Manny again for the call I love this and this is a guy who went for it for the NFL he's not worried about failing I'm not I'm not getting in his way no physically or career-wise good idea George hey uh George Campbell good hour

I want to thank James the entire crew behind the glass to keep us on the air I want to thank you America this is your show this is the Ramsay show

foreign [Music] hey it's Ken if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey win go to ramseysolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsesolutions.com to sign up for our Weekly Newsletter [Music]

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thank you live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving and storage Studio this is the Ramsey Show it's where we help people win with their money their work and

their relationships I'm Ken Coleman George Campbell joins me this hour it is a free phone call for you to jump in and that's what we do we coach you we counsel you we cheer you on Triple eight

eight two five five two two five eight

eight two five five two two five you ready to go George are you game on like Donkey Kong you got the uh you you you you yeah it just has some Roots I got the green tea with honey as well and uh so I'm ready to go as well let's go to Megan in Des Moines Iowa Megan how can we help

hi um I think he might call you bet

about eighty thousand dollars in student loan debt that's all of my debt

um and about about forty thousand dollars of that is in private loans one of my loans is twenty thousand

dollars so that's a lot of breaking down but that loan is my smallest loan at

twenty thousand three hundred dollars my concern is is that the interest rate just went up again to 11.25 percent I got an offer to yeah I got an offer to

refinance my private loans

and it would refinance it to a rate of

7.25 okay and I was just wondering I

know that interest rate isn't always the end-all be-all of it but that's a huge jump yeah wow so here's how we view

student loan refinancing now generally we're not a fan of refinancing because it kind of makes you feel like you did something but student loan refinancing can be a good move and I'll tell you the parameter so check off these boxes as I say them out loud right number one it's free to make the change no application fees origination charges whatever fees they want to throw in their no fees number two you've got to keep a fixed rate or move from variable to fix you said it's a fixed rate currently

great another box check checked off there then you've got to keep the same term or shorten it is that the case with this one um yeah I'm not quite sure how long my current one is but it would be going to a five-year term okay then in that case I would go through with it in order to uh chop down some interest without causing you any further Financial damage here without and without losing any gazelle intensity because you want to pay this thing off really fast yeah my I'm excited my if I have all my

numbers right I should have the twenty thousand dollar ones paid off by the end of this year love it and so I'm that was part of it if it would still be worth it if I'm going to be paying it off by the end of 2023.

year old divorced um single mom my daughter's 22 she just graduated college my um question is I owe 84 000 on a

mortgage my salary is 39 000. and

um I do have some 10 000 in a Roth and

uh a 401k

my concern is and my reason I'm calling is

I'm terrified that I'm not going to be able to retire and pay off my house at

my age I feel like I'm basically starting over um yeah I you know I work second jobs

um I just don't know how to get ahead

um and also my main question is do I

when I do work second jobs do I put that money in savings or do I work on paying

off the mortgage that's my first question George before we dive in on this uh Connie I'm curious to know what you're making what is your income in in your main job and then what are you bringing in in these second jobs give us a snapshot at 39

000. what do you do my full-time job I am Terry okay all right and then what are you bringing in from the second job so you know give us an example it varies um yeah if

Care Home Health Care I've done I also

do some crafting where that's kind of closer to Christmas I you know bring in some extra money that way um I I am looking at

um and I love your opinion on this um I do QuickBooks at my job and I was

thinking of possibly doing that

part-time on my own like maybe picking

up I think you could do that full-time and double your income I I yeah let me give you an ex I was looking at this today George uh Connie I was reading this today before the show I was looking at what is the current list of some of the best paying part-time jobs and bookkeeping is one of them and in certain places now again you got to kind of see what

the lay of the land is in Allentown but you can make as much as forty dollars an hour uh doing bookkeeping part-time Connie that's good money yeah and George

is right you could transition into a role like that because because there's just so many opportunities for you right now and that's why I wanted to start here because George is going to walk you through the answers to your questions but I'd like to see you increase your income in in meaningful ways not like crafts

here and there but okay if I can work stand under 10 to 15 hours a week and

let's say I'm in that 20 to 40 dollars an hour range that's real money Connie and George is going to teach you how to use that so let's let's let's work on that that QuickBook skill and you could be able to take you could take several other classes or courses that you can cash flow that give you more opportunity to do freelance work like that and nobody cares how old

you are by the way right right right and you've got a lot of transferable skills even as a secretary you could do office management you could be an executive assistant you could do some of that virtually part-time and so I would get creative and get excited about what that could do for you as far as savings and retirement so to your question great do you have any money saved for emergencies currently

I do I do I have um well I have about 18

000 in savings ten thousand in a 401k and 7 000 in a rod okay so we've got a good start here what we need to do is continue down the path of investing for retirement so I would do 15 of your income regardless of what it is add in all your side income any part of your income 15 towards retirement then on top of that I would start chipping away at

the house with whatever's left right now may not be a lot but if you double your income let's have a goal for a few years from now we have no mortgage payment and we've built up a nice little Nest Egg so that we can have a dignified retirement that's my goal for Connie yeah and she can do it fantastic love I love it I think we should

we connect her to one of our financial coaches kind of helper I would love to do that let's do that Connie hang on the line we're going to take care of you and get you with one of our financial coaches that kind of pay for a session we're going to pay for a session and get you that jump start into what George told you because there is a way

and you can do it you aren't too old you've got plenty of time thank you so much Connie hang on the line for the rest of you don't move more Ramsey show coming up

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thank you [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by my colleague George Campbell the phone number if you want to jump in on the conversation is triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five Raleigh North Carolina is where Peter Waits Peter how can we help

hey how are you guys doing today it's good to be on I think you guys are both really cool well let me tell you something I first I have three teenagers and they remind me all the time how cringy I am so I'm going to hold on to that the rest of the day thank you sir George on the other hand is always cool me means it's very rare that

this happens so thank you Peter how can we help you you're welcome yeah so my wife and I are on baby step two and we've actually kind of had to pump the brakes a little bit because we're having our Second Son in about a month hey so we've been able to save that's exciting I've been able to save about yeah we've been able to save about 3 000 extra dollars in preparation for that man

we were hitting the ground running good paying off stuff and we're like let's save up a little bit but actually I just want to make sure I'm on the right path here I'm hoping by the end of next year we'll be

debt free fully money uh fully funded emergency fund um I'm getting about a 50 000 raise in February wow that's amazing yeah what do

you currently I just wanted to know currently 70 000 so it's going to be bumped up to about 120. heck yeah Peter let's go buddy let's just pause for a moment what did you do to get that raise that's fantastic yeah so I'm actually a UPS driver no

kidding and yeah so from the third year

to the fourth year it's a pretty substantial raise I'm so glad that we asked and I'll tell you why because I want people to hear that you can make really good money wearing an all-brown outfit some great thick brown socks and driving a truck I mean that's a big deal that's good work man good for you yeah it's good hard work and it provides yeah for my wife good for you myself and our our two kids so I'm grateful good for you all right keep going Peter yeah so we're forty thousand in debt we have student loans personal loans HVAC loans credit cards and so my projection is we will be debt free hopefully by June of next year does that sound doable you think or they're a little house poor right now um and we knew kind of we would be um before we started the baby steps um it's a mortgage yep okay what's the payment on that so the mortgage is 1300 but um with Escrow in there that's another 600 with escrow rolled into it so it's about 19.

that's some serious escrow man yeah we had to get flood insurance and then homeowners insurance and then property tax so it's about 90 our mortgage about 1900 a month right now okay and what's your take-home pay currently yeah um 5200 a month right now all right and that's going to change drastically so right now you're at 36 percent of your take-home pay going towards that mortgage but

once you hit 120 you're going to be right on target so it's going to be tight but we know that raises coming on the horizon and uh you're still knocking out some debt along the way and can you work extra sure oh yeah yeah we can I I basically work as much as I possibly can um you know we have an 18 month old as well right now in

the trenches pregnant so

I work basically as much as she's okay

Peter you asked us yeah you said is this

sound right you know can we pay it off be debt free next June I think the question is for you what did you base that on how much money based on the amount of debt you have and the amount of money that you have said okay this is we're going to be able to put on each month the question is is it doable for you is it doable or have

you over projected no I think it's doable we were able to save I mean leading up to this moment we're able to save about an extra 1200 bucks a month um with our lifestyle um and then you know once the baby's born we can put all that towards dead or and then with that and then our lifestyle is not going to change once we get this pay raise

we want to get debt free and get that emergency you're going to do it and here's the deal I appreciate the question Peter the reason I brought it back up is because and George can speak to this too but when Stacy and I went through our debt free Journey stuff happened and you can put it on paper which is what you should do and you can project

and you can be disciplined and then stuff happens so if something happens and it ends up being August that doesn't matter what matters more is what you just said which is our lifestyle isn't going to change once I make more money we're committed to being debt free and I think that's what matters so yeah give yourself access but also what I like to do set a little a goal that scares me just a little bit towards

I don't know if we can make that but we're going to try I love that and then try to beat that as you get your feet under you that's usually what happens more often than not versus oh it took us a month longer and if it does yeah dude you're still debt free a month later right Peter uh I'm gonna turn the tables if it's okay with

you George has got his first child on the way yes Peter give me all the advice Peter you're about ready to have number two give George one piece of advice about parenting a newborn because he knows nothing what would you tell George

um just enjoy it oh honestly that's it man it's it a lot of people told me it's gonna be really hard but the love that you have for that baby just kind of outweighs how tough it is honestly beautifully sad Peter for the win that's as good as advice as you'll hear all day on the show I love that we turn the tables George oh we should do that more often

I think our listeners have a lot of wisdom to impart to us it's absolutely true all right let's go to New York City New York the Big Apple John is there John how can we help hey guys how you doing good what's going on I'm 24 years old uh I've managed to save

just under a hundred thousand dollars wow I have zero debt

making now um nearly 130 Grand a year

wow John slow clap for you my friend thank you appreciate it uh it's taking some sacrifice but I'm basically I'm just wondering if I do want to get my first real estate property uh morning if uh now's a now's a good time or if I should wait or you know I hear so many different things tell us about it give George the details is this a primary residence are

you wanting to get into real estate investing no so I still luckily live at home I have no payments on rent or anything which is why I've been able to save so much um okay I'm really not in a rush I mean you know it would be nice to live on my own but uh I do want to get it's my first property this will be a investment property okay

so why not get yourself a place oh I think I would you know I don't know I'm not uh I'm not in a rush to are you

living with your parents I am yes well I'll tell you something you're no loser okay everybody heard your story oh yeah but I mean either Mama's cooking is good or you're just cheap or maybe a combo what's the story it could be both yeah you're a numbers guy you're looking at this guy another thing is I'm not I'm not home all the time uh I I make good money

I work on ships so I'm gone almost half the year oh see okay that makes total sense okay all right yeah all right so you may not like my

advice but when it comes to buying real estate property as an investment we only recommend paying cash got it and that sounds as insane as it is because have you seen the world they're even more insane and they're broke and all the people out there on Tick Tock they're telling you to put as little down as possible and then rehab it and then do the HELOC and take the equity out and put it on another property dude these people have dead up to their eyeballs and they're freaked out that actually do this stuff the ones pitching it are making money from their online course of course so what I would tell you to do is if you're willing to do that in New York City is that right no I think it's too expensive here I'll probably go somewhere else uh I like Maine a lot it's cheaper up there because the other side of this coin is being a long long distance landlord is tough business so I would try to get something more local somewhere that you can actually go check out whenever you want to check in on the property and if that means we're getting the spot you know outside of the City by a half hour 45 minutes an hour so be it but I would move at the speed of cash so Wendy when is the right time to buy real estate investment property when you have the cash to do it however you can find a deal got it how old are you John 24.

you've already been able to put a hundred thousand dollars in the bank you're 24.

um now whether or not you choose to believe George or not he's right uh everybody tells you oh just use the bank's money blah blah blah riches Untold but here's the deal if you choose to believe George and do it the right way where you have no risk no stress

how much longer would it take you to get 200 000 more in the bank you're only 24.

it could be a multi-millionaire as a result of waiting five or six years or no expenses make no experiences just keep stacking the cash my friend and you're going to be way ahead of everybody else I promise wow that dude's impressive he's a hard worker I like that really good stuff George Campbell Ken Coleman with you right now we're gonna go away for just a few moments don't you go away this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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thank you [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by George Campbell the phone number to jump in on the conversation is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five the question of the day is brought to you by neighborly your hub for Home Services neighborly has local service providers to repair maintain and improve your home

I could put in there to keep Ken married because I can't do anything you know what I mean and so I need resources like this their network of experts offers top quality work and customer service by train reliable service providers find the help you need at neighborly.com today today's question comes from Alan in Ohio he writes I live

in an apartment but I'm looking to get a home in the next year to year and a half I work as a design engineer and currently make 25 bucks an hour I've got 25 000 in student loan debt to the government and I graduated in May of 2020.

looking for is actually pedigree because he goes to school and he gets an engineering degree right and so Engineers can command really good money not just in salary but in freelance

hourly rates and the freelance economy

is what it's being labeled as right now uh the gig economy is another term you hear it's just fancy language for it's a side hustle it's above and beyond my full-time job and and professional White

Collar skilled jobs have more freelance

opportunity than ever before George because of this weird economy we're in

where we have 10.1 million jobs available but only 8 million people unemployed so companies are also worried about recession and so they've cut back so instead of hiring a full-time employee they're looking for contract a

contractor and you've done this work before and in his situation where I would start the Practical advice is his top two or three skills is where he's looking as an engineer and he's he's separating those and he's going okay I'm really good at this this and this and so now he's looking out there where a freelancing opportunities because he brings credibility in that degree and everyday experience

and that's where he's going to get the biggest bang for the buck is actually his professional skills now he can do other things we're going to talk about in a minute for everybody but you you've done this out you actually did this and I wanted you to share this because you made really good money using your existing professional skills yes so first of all I was willing to do anything

and so I was driving for Uber and Lyft and doing some of the normal early adopter on that I got some sign-on bonuses when they first came to Nashville when Uber and Lyft wow so they gave me like a thousand bucks to do like three rides it was great so it was a great side money but beyond that I went I don't like driving strangers around it's not something

I enjoy can I find the side gig I enjoy doing that I'm good at that's when I went I've got marketing skills and I found this post I did Ken back in uh this is 2019 I was trying to save up for our downloads is this from your personal blog this is my personal blog my zanga page here's what it says if you need help with social media email marketing branding copywriting content creation website creation podcasting video audio production production keynote presentations DM me for Consulting work

and I got some great gigs helping small business owners authors speakers build websites and Squarespace I was making 1500 bucks a website 1500 bucks yeah and

were you using one of those uh the website in a box Squarespace yeah that's right so that was one I did marketing Consulting back in when I was getting rid of my Consumer Debt I think I made 23 Grand doing that part-time yeah nights and weekends very doable all right so let's let's also bring this down to summer jobs for kids trying to

make money for college teachers too people are trying to make extra money uh we've got a an article that we did at ramseysolutions.com we're not going to go through all of these and I've got some personal anecdotes stories here what I'm seeing uh young people do that can be done quite frankly by anybody uh but you mentioned Uber and and Lyft let's just say delivering food delivering groceries delivering people to places is still a very very accessible opportunity uh

now I will say this it comes with wear and tear on the car I've interviewed some of these drivers and I think George I've got to weigh it you got to weigh that like okay the wear and tear Insurance all that kind of stuff gas yes make sure that you're covered contact your auto insurance do not surprise them if you get in a wreck while driving for one of

these apps you may not be covered yeah don't say I didn't tell yourself uh okay here we go here's some creative things uh photographer uh tutoring uh in

in any type of uh topic there also

online teaching is an opportunity for a lot of people the one that I love here on the list and I'm seeing this is the reselling people that are going to flea market the flea market flipping that's big you can really score uh and make some really good money then you got to know what you're doing yeah garage sales yard sales flea markets even Goodwill yeah buy stuff for cheap

and look it up on eBay see what it's selling for and go clean it up and flip it uh the one that I love sharing I share this on my Show recently about a young lady who had just graduated uh from law school and she was

looking to get on with a firm and uh

wasn't finding what she wanted she's trying to figure it out and she stumbles into uh someone who says I've got some friends who want someone to walk their dogs they've got three dogs and she says well what do they pay and it's really you know it's pretty good in New York Manhattan oh okay that's big money there so she starts doing it and she realized like like

this is really good money for my time she now makes over a hundred thirty thousand dollars a year in Manhattan with a dog walking service to where now she's got so many clients that she Farms it out if you will to other people but she's clearing over six figures walking dogs that's amazing which is well over 60 bucks an hour by the way it's fantastic doing the math at home all right here's a fun story George uh my wife Stacy shared

this story with me of a young man in our neighborhood right here in Franklin Tennessee who's making several hundred dollars a week are you ready for this yeah hit me power washing this is a big one garbage cans a

power washer costs you can get them for 100 bucks yeah and so you got these nasty stinking garbage cans I never even thought about it and he's going around he's power washed pressure washing these uh garbage you can charge 15 20 bucks a pop for these yeah and it takes you a few minutes yeah here's another absurd one and I say it's absurd that people pay for

this but folks we live in a world where people have so much disposable income all you got to do is think about can I solve a problem now this is absurd but this is my neighborhood again this guy's 55 years of age he's retired but he does this just for fun and he's making a really good he's making over five thousand dollars a month you ready for

this picking up glass bottles what and

recycling them for people they just put them out there they don't want to they don't want to get rid of them they think they should recycle but they don't want to deal with it and he goes around and picks them up and he's charging people very handsomely because several hundred homes where he's picking up I know where you live Ken I may roll around that neighborhood and here go some glass who's throwing money out like that's wow is that not absurd it's a great side hustle

I saw one in my neighborhood painting mailboxes your mailbox gets a little weathered a little worn we'll repaint the mailbox so you can get so creative and let me tell you dog walking and pet sitting one of the most lucrative things out there you can charge 25 30 bucks an hour one of my kids one of my kids is going to make a thousand dollars over eight to ten days

dog sitting another golden doodle who looks just like our dog Ellis you know what I did the other day got my car my house James he's looking at me like I'm nuts I'm not kidding you it's 10 days we're watching this dog thousand bucks that's insane that's the market rate I might do it you might maybe I'm open to it but this is another one Ken mobile car detailing show up in someone's driveway big bucks use their water spigot oh

you clean their car I just I paid a guy to do this last weekend he did my car he did such a great job I said come back tomorrow do my wife says UV what'd you try I think it was a hundred bucks and maybe 125 for an SUV so in a few hours he made 100 bucks another few hours another 125 bucks and he can do three four of

these a day wow that's some serious money yeah so get creative and the more you're willing to put effort in the more money you're gonna make if you want to sit at home and take little surveys on your phone you're not going to make good money so so why do we spend time on this because there are a lot of people that are constantly coming into our atmosphere watching

the show listening to the show and they feel like getting a thousand dollars in baby step one is almost impossible the wages can that's the problem and the fact is is folks it's never been easier to make a thousand dollars in quick time frames to

be able to get that baby step one funded and then quite frankly keep that momentum going and walk through baby step two so you can do it it's very important all kinds of options by the way if you want to dive in deeper that article ramsaysolutions dot we're going to link it in the show notes in the description very nice thank you George for all the podcasters it's 27 side hustle ideas

ramseysolutions.com all right we got to pay some bills you know how important that is and we'll be right back this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey show America I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by George camel we're taking your calls this hour it is toll-free triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

we have people who tune in to every episode of the Ramsay show and they know just about everything we teach about money they can finish our sentences and yet they're still feeling very stressed out because they're stuck why is this because knowing what to do with your money isn't the issue it's doing what we

teach personal finance is 80 behavior and only 20 head knowledge The Proven way to change your behavior with your money is by taking Financial Peace University this class is the difference between trying to get in shape on your own versus hiring a trainer you'll have a coordinator holding you accountable and other people in the class that are on the same journey and they're pushing you with their participation

this is why the classes work for millions of people after nine weeks you'll handle money like you never have before and you'll never go back you'll make progress faster than ever so don't just listen to the show commit to joining the progress the actual path

through financial Financial Peace and University you can join at ramseysolutions.com FPU that's ramseysolutions.com FPU I'm teaching a

class right now George have you finished your class mine starts June 20th so people don't know this but for the first time all the Ramsey personalities are leading a class themselves virtually kenz is already kicked off so you can't join that one no too late too late for party if you want to join me June 20th we're going to be meeting around lunchtime you can catch the replays this one's fun I love that so that's an option very good let's go to Beth in Birmingham Alabama Beth how can we help

hello hi Beth what's up

well um I'm calling in with a question uh I've been through a divorce um and I have a five-year-old little girl so I'm living with my parents um my parents have been so so supportive but I am feeling pressured just by my

own I guess expectations um to move out into like around two years I feel like that's a pretty good goal but um I because of uh what I'm trying to save

um I'm nervous that um I should rethink my dream of building our house or I should rethink my time

frame so I was just curious what you guys had to say about that I think you

set this up well you know build it at all or adjust my

time frame to make it more realistic what's what which way are you leaning before you even asked us

um well I guess um I'm struggling with like my parents have sat me down and then like are you kidding like we want to be supportive during this time like they're amazing and there's such they're incredible um but uh I just feel

guilty and I also feel like through all of this in the divorce um I I I feel like I've failed um in a lot of different ways but I feel like I just need to be able to show my little

girl um I don't I just I guess I feel I'm putting pressure on myself but I think sometimes that's good um as a parent you know I have expectations for myself but I do I do struggle with perfectionism are they realistic expectations

um I don't think they are right I don't know well I don't think they are I think you've got a timeline in your head that you've pretty much have gotten to the point where you realize this isn't possible so I'm going to call Ken and George and see if they think I should abandon this dream of building my own home yeah I don't like this either I don't either pass fail

if it's not done in two years Beth has failed as a mom you're an amazing mom I agree and having a house or not will not change that and your daughter seeing you build this house or not doesn't change how she sees you I would tell you point blank don't abandon the dream because you can get there now we're going to walk you through the financial steps to do that

but there's no reason why you should abandon the dream adjust the timeline yes and also Beth it's okay for drinks to change yeah for a while I'm sorry I

would wait I would rent for a while until you can afford it the right way and we have very specific parameters to help you do that and it's wait until you have enough down payment to where you can get a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payments no more than a quarter of your take-home pay right and uh also you know this what was this dream house you wanted is this like a big house what were the the must-haves why why build versus just buy a current home well um I've been looking at homes and

basically what I'm finding in my area is

like Meeks there's just uh everything's

just really expensive and then it's just not at all what I want and I don't I and

I could be like I guess I'm a romantic but part of me is just like I want to be able to have this like I I just feel like it would be something really special to have From the Ashes of my situation like like I because I've even created it in Excel like the floor plans and everything um I know that's silly but um no no hold on a second Beth so you've interrupted yourself about three times as you uh attempted to answer George

nobody puts my friend Beth down especially not Beth I agree and and this you this perfectionism that you just admitted to that's what's going on and

it doesn't have to be perfect you're gonna design your own home in Excel then you're gonna get with an architect one day when you're ready to to do this and you've got the cash and the financial situation to do it and you're going to build a custom home I believe that if you believe it but there's going to be a season where we're building up to that financially and if you've got to buy a house in the meantime and and pay that off uh or you put so

much down that you get great equity in it as you continue to build then you sell that and you turn that profit into being able to put a huge amount down or all cash on building a home this is very very doable but but you've got to decide what must be true in my financial life

then what must be true in my personal life to be able to get to that Financial place and then we just walk that out and

then the time will take care of itself right George yeah so Beth walk us through some numbers here do you have any debt I I fully um I've gone I haven't gone through like officially financial piece but I've had like I've gone through the steps um so I have no debt when I uh

with served papers um for divorce I had four thousand and now I have twenty thousand dollars in my

emergency fund so that's a fully funded emergency fund and so now I have nine

and I and I also was a stay-at-home mom so like God has given me the opportunity to have a job and I'm I'm making it's

more than I have ever made it's 60 a year so that's a big deal for me um but so I've got 9 000 for my um house

down payment savings so that's wonderful no debt fully funded emergency fund you're you've got a nine thousand dollar Head Start so now we need to look at what is our our savings goal is it a hundred thousand we need to get some real numbers on what this would cost to build this custom home or work with a home builder an existing neighborhood that can give you what

you want have you looked into that well and I've talked with a builder which he just goes to my church so it's nothing formal but it's a hundred and he said that it's going about 180 per square foot and so the house that I've planned

or whatever sketched whatever is um like about 1800 square feet so it would be like 300 something 325 plus you need to land

yes okay so with my take on pay like I'm

only going to be able to afford about 1200 a month I think okay and so then we need to go with this maybe a six-year dream instead of a two-year dream which means I can't live you know with Mom and Dad for the next six years let's have a strategy to where we move out in a year or two we rent for a while we get the income up

and we continue to save up that down payment until we can have that dream home or we compromise and go I really want to get in a home faster than that I'm going to get a 200 000 home town home in my area until I can get there so you have a lot of options but I don't want it to be either I build this home in two years from a failure

and I'll never accomplish what I set out to accomplish right and this home will not fill any

void and so I don't want you to have the illusion that going through this is going to change that I want you to deal with the past hurt and grieve what you lost and now create a new picture of what's to come that's what our friend Dr John deloney would say yeah and Beth listen your hero to your to your daughter I mean this is this is

this is about the future and the best for you is still yet to be you've got this you got to believe it and be okay waiting for it while we work for it that's the hardest part thank you so much Beth we're cheering you on thanks to George Campbell for a great hour I want to thank James Childs our fearless leader behind the glass and the entire crew to keep us on

the air I want to thank you America for listening this is the Ramsay show

foreign

[Music] hey George camel here if you love the show and you want a deeper dive on your money Journey we've got a Weekly Newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to ramseysolutions.com today to sign up for the newsletter again that's ramseysolutions.com to sign up for our Weekly Newsletter [Music]

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving and storage Studio this is the

Ramsey Show it's where we help you win with your money your work and your relationships I'm Ken Coleman joined by my colleague George Campbell the phone number to jump in is toll-free it's triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to San Diego

California I love that City George beautiful one of the many reasons no bugs I didn't think about it no bugs we live in the south where mosquitoes can carry a toddler I don't go outside unless I have to yeah not in San Diego my friend uh all right so Lena Ray is there let's

go how can we help

Lena Ray hello Hi how are you guys we're great what's going on so I'm in a dilemma because I'm in the military and I'm transferring out within the next about a year I'd say 12 months uh uh 12 months and 14 months from now

um but I'm in the baby steps I'm currently in baby step number two and I'm thinking about selling my car um I just don't know how to go about that what I'm just afraid I guess to take the next step and choose a car what how much loan should I take no all right so first and foremost we want to say thank you for serving our country you are a great American thank you very much for that tell us about this car that you're thinking about selling

Tesla you're talking to the right guy today with George George likes Tesla's

there's no such thing

I'm sorry to break it to you the best interest rate is zero percent with a zero dollar payment that's what I got in my test so now why do you want to sell this Tesla why why are you calling us asking us uh about selling this

are you is it killing you is the car payment killing you let's be honest absolutely and you're not even driving it much I'm not driving it much no okay and what's it worth um after plugging in the numbers at a higher value Maybe to 39 right now let's say you sold it for 40. that leaves you with no money to buy a card do you have any cash on hand

just by uh one thousand saved okay and no other debt no I actually do have a lot more debt and that's why I'm trying to sell it okay so this is one step 75 with the car

what's the other debt it's all Consumer Debt on credit cards okay oh so you got 35 000 in credit card debt yep what's the interest rate on that

uh the highest interest rate on one of

the cards is 27 correct oh I need some

peps at AC oh okay Harper I'm almost

done paying that one off good well absolutely we are selling this car are you gonna need a car ASAP to get around

yes okay so can we get you a little beater car let's say you waited to sell this Tesla for three months and whatever you have saved in three months we're gonna find you a cheap car is that reasonable yeah what's your income

um total income I would say 9 000 after taxes a month yes and how much of that do you have after paying your minimum payments on your debts how much could you save towards that beater car

I'm only paying minimum I

thousand dollars okay oh boy oh boy all right I'm on the hunt San Diego used car six thousand

dollars the exact opposite of what you're driving now what model Tesla is this a model y okay all right so you're gonna miss that Tesla and whatever's next is going to be the saddest worst thing you've ever driven for now the good news is we're gonna get you back in a Tesla if that's what you so choose later on down the line once we are debt free with a fully funded emergency fund and we're gonna do it with no payments we're gonna pay cash

sound good okay I'm glad you're willing to make the sacrifice most people calling in are even unwilling to sell the car so the fact that you're going should I sell it I feel like I need to and you have a great income you're making six figures yeah so we're going to knock out the rest of this credit card debt real fast without that payment what's that Tesla payment right now

almost 900 bucks back in your life to throw with this credit card debt 837 a

game changer oh my gosh because you're probably paying 800 bucks in interest on those credit cards right now at least

oh Lena Ray we are pulling for you to knock out this debt fast is there any way you can create more income yeah so I'm actually I've been doing door Dash and I did it for one weekend just to try it out and only did maybe like 14 hours and made 400 bucks that's awesome whoa that's incredible the good news about doordash is no one gives a rip what

you drive that's true they just cared their food got there and it's still warm isn't that different and if you're that embarrassed by it I'm a fan of just pulling 500 yards down the street they don't see it that's true nobody cares to your point sure good for you well that's awesome Lena Ray drive like no one else until later on you can drive like no one else you're doing

it the right way well said proud of you and again thank you for your service you are a great American and you've got this let's go to Lincoln Nebraska where Jackson is on the line Jackson how can we help hey hey how are you guys doing we're having a blast what's going on awesome awesome okay so me and my wife

are out of baby step two we have baby step three done uh we were gonna save for a house um but I really really want to be a pilot uh as my long-term career eventually and if we go that route we would be putting off buying a house for several years because flight school is quite pricey and it takes a while so I just want to know what would you guys do

I would do whatever it takes to get

through the pilot training without any debt at all and if that means putting off multiple things that's what I would do because there's just there's no reason to have any debt for this it is expensive but when you come out of this thing you're gonna be one of the few pilots who have no debt and you're gonna be flying the friendly Skies debt free and the house will still be

there so I I would do whatever it takes not to go into debt cash flow how long would that take to save up in cash flow this so it's about um it's 95 000 for all seven ratings and

um then I have to be an instructor to build my hours for for a couple years so I'd say it would probably take about three years to save up and then probably

another two or three years to go through everything because it while doing a full-time job here um it would be hard to um go faster than that so get through

the get through the training and everything and then I'd have to be a flight instructor for maybe a couple years so I'm looking at I mean it's it's a long journey going to med school it is and you have a spouse yes what do they think yeah they're they're very supportive she's very supportive of me um she wants a house I mean we've kind of talk like hey

we can rent a house eventually I mean like if we want to have more space we can still rent in the future and she's okay with that and she's completely on board as well well that's huge that's the most important part yeah because then you're going to be willing to do whatever it takes because we agreed on this vision for our life and it may take longer

it may look different but I love that you're choosing your reality and we can't have the cake and eat it too we want the house we want to do the pile but we've got to choose which one is the priority and here's the thing Jackson I'm not saying you're gonna do this but it could be very easy for someone in your situation on a long journey like

this to start to feel guilty about Midway through and your wife is still supportive she's on board for the vision but all of a sudden you go oh I feel like we gotta get a house and we we just slip into debt don't do it stay the course it's gonna work out don't move more of your calls coming up this is the Ramsey Show

thank you

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welcome back to the Ramsey show America I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by my colleague George camel we're here for you this hour as we answer your questions about money about your work

and about your relationships all three of those areas of your life they just have a way George of bleeding into each other if you're not winning in one it tends to affect the other and we are here for you this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's

go to Megan who joins us in Atlanta Georgia Megan how can we help hi um thank you so much for taking my call um I just I'm a recent um graduate I just got my Master's Degree and I'll be working for the first

time um pretty soon and I just wanted to

um know how to go about establishing Financial boundaries with my parents no

oh so the very question here George tells me that you feel like there aren't some healthy boundaries now they're Crossing I'm just curious what what is the source

of this what are you concerned about as maybe not being a boundary what's going on tell us a little bit more um so I had the gracious just pleasure

my last year of grad school living with

a family member and um they didn't charge me at all and they even opened up saying like hey we get you're just starting out you know like you can stay with us longer I definitely had planned on you know giving like a monetary gift of monthly even though it's not required however my dad is kind

of like very just expectant of like how

much are you gonna give and I kind of was like oh I think that's for me and that family member to discuss and so he's not involved in this in the actual transaction it's not his place yeah he's not has he's just gone well you should be paying them

insistent on knowing how much I would be paying them and like creating like that number for me instead of me and that family member and what is your response been to him when he's uh digging uh I I told him you know that I'll talk

to it with the family member and he definitely wasn't happy about it um he said you know I as as my father I

shouldn't keep information like that I'm being secretive so I I just want to go about like you know I do love my dad and everything but I do think it's time for me as an adult like you know be on my own and so just trying to find that short balance all right so let me let me ask a question is it that you don't want to pay the amount that he's suggesting or you just don't want his his input at all and the

reason I ask that is because what's the big deal with you just going dad here's what I've decided I'm happy to tell you it's not a secret I'm just deciding what I'm giving and it feels like he just wants to have input and I'm just wondering why is it that big of a deal for you to just say to him all right this is what I'm paying dad

you want to know what I'm going to do this is what we've arranged and then if he disagrees then you deal with it so my dad um his input he'll say it's you know a suggestion but

there's an implicit thing that you kind of have to do it okay so this to you is a clear dividing line by saying I'm not even going to tell you it's just between me and this other family yeah so what is his motivation you know him better than anyone what do you think's behind this I know his motivation um is definitely just like

I know his motivation is definitely just to I guess make sure that family members

aren't talking and thinking I'm just mooching it's his reputation on the line

yeah essentially oh okay that's what I was digging for yep because the motive matters some parents are just going you know they have they looking out for you they want the best for you but this feels like if they find out through the grapevine of the family that she's only paying 300 bucks they're gonna be coming at me going wow your daughter's so cheap and that's a reflection yeah okay well uh this is as our friend

Dr Henry Cloud would say you've got to draw the boundary line the property line that marks what you're responsible for and what he's responsible for and this is not his responsibility yeah if it's going to put a tear in the relationship that's on him not on you and I know that's hard to say

but it's going to it may cause a riff that is unrepairable depending on his response do you think it's do you think it's not uh you think it's something that's going to last a long time or do you think he's going to get over it eventually um I'm hoping and praying it doesn't last a long time um you know I definitely told my parents that I've been thankful for everything but I do think just me as an adult going

forward these are just some things I should kind of like keep to myself regarding my finances so this conversation has already happened yeah yeah and how is it so far what was his reaction and he wasn't happy yeah but I understand he wasn't happy I want to know what was his reaction like when you say not happy did I mean he was gave you the silent treatment did

it mean no he he definitely you know definitely blew up which is expected um I'm sorry definitely did the whole like you know as your father which is expected um my mom was also not the happiest but she's more understanding like you know I'm not happy but I understand it's what you have to do um how long ago was this like a couple hours oh okay fresh

so

this is like the hot now sign at Krispy Kreme Donuts I mean this is this is fresh yeah um well do you believe you did the right thing yes or no I do okay I do

parents are the best at making us feel guilty and selfish our decisions yeah I think you have to hold the line to say I love you too I respect you I'm sorry you feel the way that you feel but I'm still your girl your values are intact I'm doing the right thing and cast a vision on what this is going to look like going forward and so that

they get their mind off of this fear that George pulled up on here I mean he figured your dad out pretty quick on this deal and so it's this is some selfishness going on here but it's what I would call uh it's unintentional your dad's just worried about you his reputation the whole nine yards and you know what he's having a

hard time letting go of you yeah so I would tell you to and I feel like you have the spirit on you right now but the spirit of Grace of

understanding compassion for Dad which is hard to have compassion for somebody that blows up on you yeah and I'm going to do you one better Megan we're actually going to send you a copy of our friend Dr Henry Cloud's book boundary so hang on the line and I will make sure you're sent that book and it may be one you you give to Dad not passive aggressively

but you're saying dad this book's been really helpful for me I'm learning all this now as I'm becoming an adult I've had to have these really hard conversations I found it helpful not just for this but for all areas of life and I think you'd get a lot of value out of it too I think you're right Ken dad's having a hard time letting go he's used to being able to tell

the daughter what to do she's a grown woman now she gets to make her own decisions yeah and based on what I heard from her she's very respectful I think so too she's got her life together she's not doing anything out of control yeah you know what it makes me think of I was reading and I'm sure you've seen these lists before they're quite popular in fact

there was a best-selling book written by a Australian nurse uh that

she was a hospice nurse and she published this book on the the top regrets of people who are dying oh and one of the top five regrets of people who are dying is I wish I had lived the life that was true to what I wanted to live in other words and as you start to unpack that phrase you realize that these were people who made big decisions in life that pleased others based on the expectation that did not please themselves and so what happens is if you

don't establish boundaries here and you're always trying to make decisions that please others that are in absolute a conflict with what you believe you should do you are going to be a person who dies with regret and it's that important yeah well I've heard this quote and Dr John alone is quoting another psychologist physician when he says choose guilt over resentment yeah right that's the healthiest way to go about your life resentment will eat you alive guilt is

something we go yeah okay yeah so feel guilty for telling Dad off but at least I'm not resentful so true I'd rather disappoint somebody than and resent than live an inauthentic life isn't that true man wow well Megan uh we got the book coming for you you read it and live it it's really it's going to be a game changer and set you free thank you so much for the call all right folks quick commercial break more of the Ramsey show coming up don't move [Music]

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thank you

welcome back America you are joining the conversation here on the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman I'm joined by George camel the phone number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five you got a work question not happy but you're freaking out I'm in the baby steps can I can I interrupt my income do I need to uh you got a money question well

we are here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five a lot of you are planning to move sometime soon and that's always exciting uh but

we've got to get real with you here in most places around the country you're going to be facing some sky-high home prices interest rates are not going to return to the record lows anytime soon but that doesn't make it impossible to own a home if you want to buy or sell you got to make sure that you're financially ready and that you've got a trusted and experienced real estate agent to walk

you through it not Uncle Larry who just got his license last month you need a pro who's a true expert you can find a high caliber Ramsay trusted agent like that through our endorsed local providers program and we vet the agents around the country so you're going to get the best support whether you're moving from Florida to Alaska or buying your first home somewhere in between go to ramseysolutions.com agent that's

ramseysolutions.com agent let's go to Atlanta Georgia Sarah is on the line Sarah how can we help hi there here's my question

I am 54 years old and I just got out of

debt I am a substitute teacher who is building her emergency fund as we speak is it impractical for me to dream about

owning a building at my age that would

house my own LLC restaurant okay and how old are you you broke up when you told us maybe that's God there's no shame in your game but it does play into our answer how old 54. okay 54. got it and what is your

current income

um well it's um I make um

1000 roughly one thousand seven hundred

dollars a month and how often are you substitute teaching to make that

about 14 days roughly a month okay and

what about the other you know 16 or so days in the month are you working uh I I mean it varies uh okay it's not right

14 but it just depends on it I'm classified as on call so it just depends on when they need me that kind of thing okay well my the reason I ask is to figure out how we can get you closer to your goal and income is a huge part of that you know we always we always say that your greatest wealth building tool is your income and

and Ken is so good at helping people increase that which is a huge part of getting to this goal you said you're in baby step three you're getting the emergency fund in place that's great do you have anything in retirement no okay so so okay so so

it's going to take we've got to stop looking at time and I understand in the heart of your question but you at the situation the time will take care of itself the answer to your original question is it realistic for me at 54 to

think about owning a building that I could then have a restaurant in it's realistic yes based on activity and

your income and right now you are you are not making much money at all and so the clock is ticking really fast for you and so the more income you can make then we get more realistic on what that time frame looks like but I lived in the Atlanta Georgia area for a long time what area do you live in

I live on the South Side live on the South Side okay so uh have you even looked at a building that uh would would house what you want to do with it and you have any idea what that would cost in your area yes I had looked at that okay what are we looking at cost wise uh 178 000 okay see now we've got a

number and so how long will it take us to save up 178 thousand dollars because we don't want you going into debt for this building okay because you're you're really you really are at this stage of the game you don't have much retirement at all you're working through baby step three which is great so this is gonna have to be a get after

it hustle situation and so if the numbers five years seven years ten years that number is determined by the income that you can make do you understand what I'm saying yes sir and then we have and did I hear you say restaurant that you wanted to have a restaurant as well in this building yes I want to own the building and um

move my LLC restaurant in I've already got my LLC status for my restaurant but

um I just um need a building we're currently running this from yeah where are you running I don't want to rent because it's like seven or eight thousand dollars a month and and I want to put that money toward my humanitarian efforts because I have a humanitarian Edge to my LLC restaurant are you running a restaurant right now no we're just on we exist on paper that's

it okay that's what I thought so it's an LLC but it's not a restaurant uh Georgia I mean we got it we got a decision I want to be realistic yeah based on your income right now this stream is not going to it's not gonna happen based on your income right now we would need to increase this by a whole lot and I want to think about where how do how does Sarah retire one day

let's just say the restaurant doesn't happen we need a game plan yep

so we need to figure out how do we start investing do you have a home currently

yes is it paid for yes it is paid off okay what's the home worth Melissa what what is the home worth

um it's worth 80 000. okay and that's pretty much all you have to your name plus your emergency fund okay yes so I

want you to start thinking about developing a plan so that 10 years from now 64 we've developed a little bit of a nest egg by investing that may start with a Roth IRA for you maxing that out but we also need to get our income up to do that right now we don't have money to invest we don't have money to save towards this restaurant and we're not gonna be able to buy a building in cash

so it may start with I'm gonna go work at a restaurant learn the ins and outs of the business get in with the manager maybe take over management one day so that when the time comes I'm ready to do this thing okay would you be willing to do that to go work at a restaurant and learn all the ins and outs of the business

uh I would be willing to um start from the ground up I I have a college degree so so okay I'll be able to so Sarah here's what I'm jumping in real quick so we've got to start to get some real numbers for you to see we got to get out of our head and we've got to get some real numbers so you've got to increase your income to

the level that as George is saying that you actually can put 15 of your income away in baby step four because that's first and foremost it's more important than the restaurant and then after that in a given year you're going to have to be able to put 20 to 30 000 away a year George on

minimum yeah just to get to the point where we can buy 178 180 000 building plus any startup cost and I'm concerned about the startup cost of the restaurant there's a question and truthfully the rate at which restaurants fail is scary it's normal so I want you to do so much research too so much homework talk to actual restaurant owners whether they've been successful or unsuccessful learn from

these people before you jump in because I'm worried at this point we're never going to be able to retire yeah and uh that's my biggest biggest concern for you right I agree and so Sarah this is not in any way meant to dash the dream I just want you to have a realistic picture of what you're dealing with you're looking at on the low end 20 to 30 000 a year that you'd have to save

you start multiplying that at 54 how many years we're talking about and that's going to be a very sobering picture but a picture you need to see yeah okay and here's why you could buy a building and may never

launch a restaurant in it but if you buy the building down the line and it becomes a part of your retirement strategy or maybe you get involved in a restaurant and work your way up into management and get involved and maybe buy Equity into I mean the point is is that why are you dreaming about a restaurant you're not going to make you answer that but we may have to adjust the details of the dream but keep the

essence of the dream because of the financial realities George that's that's that's where we sit and so if we can't do this what can we do that meets that

same heartfelt desire that she thinks the restaurant this LLC and I I'm always a fan of starting small and doing it with cash that may mean eventually maybe one day we have a food truck and maybe one day that food truck becomes so successful we have the brick and mortar store I love them and one day we get so successful with that we buy the building and we that's the stair stepping I want here yeah that's really good advice Sarah thank you so much for the call do

the homework get a real pick picture of what you're dealing with and now you've got a plan that you can attack thank you again for the call he's George Campbell I'm Ken Coleman this is the Ramsey Show we'll be right back [Music]

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foreign [Music]

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thank you [Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman joined by George camel triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number to jump in today's scripture of the day is proverbs 4 25 and 26 let your eyes look directly ahead and let your gaze be fixed straight in front of you watch the path of your feet in all your ways will be established our quote of

the day George you must have picked this one I know you're a big Shaq I had nothing to do with it but I'm a fan I'd love to see you in Shaq side by side in a picture we've seen Mugsy Bogues out there that's pretty much what you're gonna get you like that it's about the same thing I love that today's quote from Shaquille O'Neal Excellence is not a singular act

but I have it you

are what you repeatedly do I don't know do you think Shaq said that it feels like we could have put anyone's name there and I would have believed it so it's plausible Shaq's funny I love

Shaq he is a uh he had a podcast for a while and he's got he's got some great quotes I just don't see him saying it that way that one feels too serious it is he's he's a great dude though very funny guy I had a chance to meet him once and he swapped when he shook my hand it was like my entire arm went into his hand

it was like a baseball mitt yeah essentially wow fantastic triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number Providence Rhode Island is where we go next Jaden is there Jaden how do we help how's it going good what's going on

uh yeah so just uh shortly briefly uh summarize my my situation I'm uh 21 years old I uh when I graduated high school originally I went and took a year and a half of college and um my major kind of just I kind of lost interest covered was happening I was online so I gained some student uh student loans and um from there I switched careers and I went into the iron workers so I'm in that union now and I have about 9.2 just about 9 200 of

debt right now and uh that's counting uh 500 of credit

from my credit card I'm just honestly looking for the best way or some some Financial advice to go from here because I'm doing monthly payments currently but I feel like it's like it's just going nowhere Okay so we've got about 8 700 in student loans 500 on credit cards yes are those separate student loans how many are there if you broke them out uh there's four separate student loans what's the smallest one the smallest one's fifteen hundred cool so the this is the way I attacked my student loan debt I it was exactly like you I had credit card debt student loan debt back in 2013.

um I mean right now the job I'm working on I'm making if I work a 40 hour week I'm taking home about 650 a week okay

so um I mean I have some other bills

monthly but like such as a car insurance and whatnot I mean I could I feel as if I could definitely pay it off in like a month or two yeah I was gonna say like a month and a half two months if I just completely focus on it great so then you free up that credit card payment and now we can apply that plus all the extra margin

you had to the next payment and the next payment until you knock all of your debts out smallest to largest and on average that takes folks 18 to 24 months well you know with uh with your level of debt nine grand I think you'll do it faster okay sounds good so that's the way to do it my man that's it it's that simple and it's that hard

because you gotta focus on one thing at a time and you have to not look at the interest rates which is hard to do and you just have to go on a Vengeance yeah Focus yeah great Linda is

up next in Austin Texas Linda how can we help hey thanks for taking

I have

congratulations

excited yes you should be 72.

say that again I've been working since 1972.

that's fantastic how long have you been

retired Linda well I'm it's uh next Saturday is my last day is the retirement the second time around I retired once in California and I moved to Austin and got a job again and been working and here I am I'm doing a little Encore career and now we were sailing off no she's done she's she's had it folks she's out plus you get two retirement parties I like that yeah good okay so what's your question I

have been collecting uh social security for a couple years and I get a pension from California which I'm doing pretty good you know monthly I have no bills but one thing came up here at this time my mom passed away a couple years ago

so I'm going to get about 114 000 and I owe 83 000 on my house and I

have a interest rate of 2.875

so my question is the financial advisor

which I just rolled over my 401k for that company at 103 000 I rolled it over this week she says I shouldn't pay my house off of that money I should just reinvest it with them because the interest rate well of course Linda the financial advisor is going to tell you to invest with them ah it's like asking again it would be like asking a gastroenterologist if if you want to get a colonoscopy you know it's you're gonna you're going to the wrong place for advice on debt payoff wow yeah I know I

know you were going to say that but so not that they're a bad financial advisor but their incentivized to get you to invest that's how they make money that's how their brain thinks so I would encourage you to pay off this mortgage tomorrow you're going to get a payoff quote and wire the money yeah and you'll still have 31 grand left yeah so then what do I do with that with that well so what was your mortgage payment uh my mortgage payment was without taxes

616 Okay so we've got a few extra 100

bucks in the uh in the budget now we have our social security we have our pension about 4240 between Social Security and my pension awesome skills well now we just got a little cushion in retirement and now we can live and give like no one else we can give a little more spend a little more and continue to invest do you have any other Investments no I just rolled that over

this week to an investor and they're going to put in some mutual funds okay I've never done that before so but you have no money in Investments it's all Social Security and pension right now until we get this money yeah well that money is rolled over yeah it's here already I just got to take it down there and give them a check next week yeah whatever's left throw into some mutual funds

and you can continue to pile on top of that with whatever margin you have left but I like having a goal for giving saving and spending and so let's increase our giving a little bit let's have Linda have a little fun uh increase some of the spending line items for fun money and then we're going to invest some as well okay so then I guess I could uh give

it

to them or else I was just going to put it in a CD account or just to have for in case something happens I don't know yeah I would just park in a high yield savings account and keep it liquid uh that way if an opportunity strikes or do you want to buy something or whatever it is you'll have that money ready to go and you've got you've got great rates right now with those high yield savings accounts yes I've been looking at them

the CD rates and all that put in there for a while so um I really appreciate you so I'm glad I'm gonna go pay my house off next week on my retirement Linda that's amazing it

is that is so fantastic to be retired and no house payment and that's a nice little chunk of change you get to decide what to do with and George gave you some great advice so these are the fun problems we get to Grapple with yeah is Linda out there yes Linda what is one fun thing that you

think you'd like to do now with this extra margin what is it one thing no no one no no one

fun thing I don't want to put pressure on you and say one thing but what's one fun thing George gave you some great advice celebrating this Milestone two

Milestones what do you think you want to do oh God I don't know

go on a vacation somewhere there we go where are you going what's on the list Paris France or something Paris the City of Lights be

fantastic yes all right all expenses paid no no debt here we're not going back you need to stay in tune with George and everything he's doing this guy can give you all kinds of hacks on how to do Paris for Less that's true have you done a video yet on this I need to you probably should I was looking at Costco Travel at Paris trips see I got

the itch Ken there you go Linda Costco Travel this is more than you asked for today it's more than America needed Costco card there's a Costco pot too they're not hey Costco member you're you're I'm a fan of that as long as not the credit card cut up the credit card but if it's a membership card oh no I don't use I just use a debit card no

she just means to get in the building George you never know these days Ken okay I guess she's good hey Linda's going to Paris I think

we just Center like price is right you're going to Paris I know but I had nothing to do for three hey good hour George always fun to be with you my friend I want to thank the James Childs our fearless leader and the entire crew behind the glass for keeping us on the air hey America this is your show thank you for tuning in we believe in you you got this this is the rain show [Music]

thank you [Music] hey it's Ken if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramsesolutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation again that's ramseysolutions.com and click get started [Music]

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## 176. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-12-23)


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[Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey personality the host of the Ken Coleman show author of the number one bestselling book from check to purpose as my co-host today so we definitely can handle your career job and work questions along with anything else you want to throw at us the phone number Isle 88255 225 thanks for being there we're

going to start this hour with William and St Louis hi William how are you doing good Dave hi Kev how are you doing

good what's up how can we help yes I

just have a question I'm 30 years old I

graduate with my degree in computer science I currently work in a trade right now doing foundation repair and I'm thinking of pursuing a career in the military but not quite sure if it's what I should be doing I don't I feel as though I don't have much of an opportunity of growth using either of the skills that I've learned or would like to do them long term okay

so we have two different factors there so first I don't feel like I have opportunity for growth uh with a computer science degree I that that couldn't further from the truth uh technology is the number one industry

where we stand today and going forward will continue to be so so the sky the limit on technology now in the trades I

would say that's incorrect in the trades as well but in your particular role as foundation repair maybe that's true so

that's one narrative problem the second thing you brought up is uh I don't know if I want to do them long term now that's that's that's what we need to be paying attention to so is the military just another option or is it something that you've always longed to do you you're a patriot you want to serve our country in a specific way or is it just

another option that maybe I'll kick the tires on because I don't want to do computer and Technology work and I don't want to be in the trads what is it um I've always had the drive to do so since my senior year of high school and even through college but now that I've

been a working professional for this

long I I feel like I can't get the opportunity with my foot in the door to use my computer degree and like say doing trades it's it's fun but I don't I'm not giving any benefits or any actually any benefits at all okay well let's if I offered you a job making 150,000 in computer science would you be would you have joy I'm not sure complete Joy but I mean it wouldn't hurt either well I mean what why why not complete Joy honestly it's money is not really a

motivator for me so back to the military thing I thought I heard you say that you've always wanted to serve in the military since high school did I hear you correctly that's correct okay then

why what's behind that I haven't had much goal or general direction in what I want to do so I just kind of fall on you know whatever seems

easier okay that's not a good answer to I've always wanted to be in the military it's completely opposite so um what you have to understand is is

that there there are things that you do well those are your talents and then there's things that you really enjoy doing and to this point in your life I think you know what those are so if I interviewed everybody that knows you William what would they say are the top two or three things you do well and we're talking about a skill set could be a hard skill or soft skill what would

they say I'm not quite sure I'm not I don't have that many talents all right now we know what's going on so here's where we're at William so I'm going to give you a couple of tools that will allow you to dive into this not under the pressure of being live on the air okay I'll tell you about those in a minute but here's what's going on something has happened to

you something

has been said to you to where you don't believe that you have anything to offer you don't think you have any talents and that couldn't be further from the truth so what we got to do is we got to get you to a place where you begin to see wait a second I have something that I can do well that's come easy for me people have complimented on

this and if I'm if I'm able to get through the pain and through the past and see that then I can begin to realize oh I have something that I can do well

and when we get the clues to that there will be things that we enjoy closely aligned if not the same thing so stay on the line and I want to do a couple things I want to give you the get clear career assessment and this is a wonderful little tool of self-awareness I want you to take it and then I want you to read the book from paycheck to purpose

then I want to schedule a call Austin let's schedule to have him call in on my show after he's done both of those things and we'll work through what

we now see and Dave uh you know our friend John delone deals with this a lot too when someone feels as though they have no worth they don't feel they're worthy and then they have a hard time even identifying I can do this well this

is a type of work that I can do and contribute to the world and that's what's going on with him yeah and then you fall backwards that's correct you start selecting things I'll try right well I mean you just like take take the path of least resistance it's like I can't screw that up right I'll go to the military and they'll tell me what to do when that up right yeah and that's not that this is um Earl Nightingale

great motivator used to say that you take an 18-year-old young man young woman and they've got the whole world in front of them there's nothing but hope there's nothing but dreams there's nothing but Vision there's nothing but excitement and if you're not careful how do they select their first career choice

what their friends are doing mhm that's right I just got on down to factory come on down there hiring right and that's about how much work you they spend more time picking out a suit of clothes than they do a career that's right and you can fall backwards into things if you don't uh deem yourself uh of Great Value

yeah and um you know if you're in the technology world and you actually know how to do technology uh the sky's a limit yeah you're incredible on what you can do but you got to actually believe it and I can't get my foot in the door has nothing to do with the technology world has to do with his foot you nailed it see here's what's going on with this young man and a lot of people that are listening today and watching if you don't see how you are uniquely put

together then you will never believe that you have tremendous value so this is really a self-awareness situation but I will tell you that undoubtedly and I don't want to put him on the spot on the air undoubtedly he has been in an environment or he's had some experiences that has made him feel as though he doesn't have much to offer and so awareness is huge to begin to see himself as somebody who can do things well that's talent who enjoys doing things that's passion

and who is motivated by results that's a sense of mission and that's what's in the assessment that we'll give him so I want the audience to know I didn't want to put him on the spot uh I've talked to so many people like that on the air that they're dealing with a cloud of confusion when you're in that you don't interview well yeah you can't see cuz every anyone doing an interview looks at that looks at that person that's using that type of lingo

and sentence structure and they go uh-uh yeah pretty

quick it's almost as big a turn off as the other end of the spectrum where you get a guy if you could buy him for what he's worth and sell him for what he thinks he's worth you'd be rich right you get a guy on the other side who's all pumped up and you know really thinks he's something he's not right and that's the other end of

the spectrum and so when you're when you're an employee you're doing an interview or uh an HR person recruiter doing an interview you're picking up on these Vibes off of either one of these two characters we're talking about here and uh it makes a difference quiet confidence and courage is an amazingly powerful thing it changes your voice tone it changes your body language it changes your um

the

believability that you can add value to an organization this is the ramsy

show

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

budget [Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today Melissa is with us in Rochester New York hi Melissa welcome to the Ramsey Show hi good afternoon sir and thank you so much for having me on the show sure what's up sure sir the reason why I'm calling in is because I'm having a couple of issues right now I Curr currently own the home that I live in it is completely paid off however that home is actually my mom's home what was your mom's home it's now yours yes it was my mom's home it is in

my name now it is paid off however it

was originally my mom's home she lost it and so I helped her save the home and now it's in my name out of fear that she'll lose it again however sir um my

mom has made infrastructure changes to the property um without this was before

I even had the home she had made infrastructure changes and she didn't properly permit the house so she's gone now a couple years with having rooms that she created into the house that weren't permitted and so now I'm in fear

that I may be see facing any type of legal issues or ramifications that can come out of the house being in my name and her doing things to the home before they were even in my name and so now I'm

trying to just save myself any issues that may come out of all of this and I want to just unded myself anded my mom

back on the property and just give her the property to take care

of how old is your mom my mom is 70 years old okay what did

she do to the house she refinanced it no I'm talking

about the structural issues what did she change she added um bedrooms to the

property so she did an addition

yes changed the square footage of the house are they not within code well no they had if you didn't permit you you changed the square she changed the footprint right yes okay so the actual outside structure of the home is the same it was never changed but what she did was she built up additional walls creating bedrooms inside inside the original footprint inside the original footprint correct yeah that's why

they have no way of knowing what happened there right correct so no you're don't have any liability nothing to worry about nothing to worry about there's nothing to worry about right nothing to worry about unless and that's why I asked theod did she rewire the house without getting an electrical permit no did she replum the house without getting a plumbing permit yes completely replumbed the whole house well

she added a a bathroom she

added one bathroom yeah okay all right

is it done is the construction done of

reasonable quality yes is okay I don't think you got a thing to worry about nothing at all I think you got a thing to worry about it would have been better to per minut it but lots of people do that kind of stuff I mean that's a fairly normal practice yeah some some municipalities are much more strict than others I can't tell you that you know Rochester New York is not like

the toughest in the world or something I don't know that but in general most people you know it's inside the footprint she didn't change the dimensions of the house and um you

know she didn't illegally do a trade other than adding a bath I I I I really

truly um I I I don't think you got a thing to worry about and I wouldn't give her the house back she's going to borrow against it well and here's what's going to happen is she's going to screw it up then she's going to turn around and leave it to you when she dies and you got the mess again you're gonna get it back this thing's a boomerang yes

and now my my one fear right now is so the conditions of the house the roof needs to be replaced that's about $20,000 the driveway needs be replaced fencing needs to be added because she hasn't is she living in it or are you we're both living in it right now what do you make a year uh right now I'm not working I decided to put myself back into school

and I just graduated two months ago how do you peoplefy um where's the money well I have savings that I use up right now I only have about 2,000 savings left and you have a paid for house house is all run down come again sir it's you have a paid for house but it's all run down yes it's

run down and what are you getting ready to do for a career now I'm getting ready to go into public safety law enforcement to be

specific and you'll be making what I'll

be making approximately $60,000 a year okay all right well and I currently have okay I would not date it back to her I would either sell it to an investor as is and you guys go about your Merry way or I would sit there with a plan to to gradually do the uh repairs that need to

be done out of cash from your new

job part of this is you want to get rid of the of all the negative things that your mom represents by getting rid of this house yes sir because right now she rents out that's that's where some of the income is coming and she did additional bedrooms She rents out the bedrooms and so that income she claims it all because that's technically her retirement since she doesn't work I'm sorry the house is yours how does she run out your house and she collects the rent y'all are

weird yes it's only because it's only because the house was originally Min I did save it from her I didn't technically have any Financial investment in it um how did you shve it then um I was able to um when she short

sell the house I was able to purchase it for about $40,000 and that's called a financial investment yes and she has since then refunded me that money okay um you don't

have boundaries is is b i you know I I I

I think you might be right Melissa I actually I'm change I'm going to change my mind right here in the middle of this call wow I think you de it to her and let her have it and you go have a life and when she passes away you auction it off don't you ever move move in it okay I think this house and all the chaos that occurs around your mother in this house uh is all a huge negative

spot for you and a clean fresh start in

criminal justice system is a a great thing for you clean no chaos simple

little one-bedroom apartment and you build up some cash again and uh you've come out even she gave you the money back that you used to save the short sale but you can just push all of this chaotic weirdness over to the side and

not have to worry about it anymore and just I would yeah I would talk to a title company and I dat it out of your name into hers and you go move but only if there's a clean break there yeah you have to you have to stay your own place you have to have your life completely separate completely clean all the chaos

stays over there on her side of the fence don't help with the roof anything around this mom figure is chaotic I can smell it in the air she's a character

mom's a character and then you're sitting there trying to be a normal person in the middle of this character and that's why I called y'all weird so um I couldn't figure out how you own the house and she's collecting the rent uh but now I'm starting to understand so yeah I think it is a good idea let's just get away from it but not because of the remodeling uh

because of the chaos around your mom and this is never going to be it's always going to be the weird part of your life until you give it a little bit of distance and a little bit of a boundary all right Casey's in St Petersburg Florida hi Casey what's

up hi thank you for taking my call sure how can I help um so I've just been listening to your show for about a month now and I um

understand a little bit about the baby steps and I actually just signed up for the financial peace uh course through my church so wow great to get started on

that yeah um so my situation is that I

am 41 single um I have 83,000 in student

loan debt you're a doctor or a lawyer a nurse practitioner oh good

that's even better okay so you're making what 110 um I'm making 135 135 great I love

it what other debts have you got um I have 8,000 in private student

Loom debt okay um 5,000 in a parent plus

loan for my daughter and I have this is the really

hard hard to even say out loud is I have um $199,000 in credit card debt from

medical bills um and other things okay what we're going to do is just do what we do in Financial Peace University you're going to live on beans and rice rice and beans you make a wonderful income and as a nurse practitioner you can also pick up some side gigs called ER on the weekends and it pays really well I want you working all the time I

want you spending no money no restaurants no eating out no vac vacations no life and now we're making

150 160 we're going to live on about 40 and we're going to throw 100 at the student loan debt and you're going to be 100% debt free in around two years but it's going to be two years a hell so get ready it'll be worth it though cuz you'll be free that's exactly how you're going to attack this with great focused intensity good question I'm proud of you get at it holler if you need some more

help

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[Music]

more

can Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today I'm Dave Ramsey thanks for joining us the phone number is 88255 225 Rebecca is in Denver hi

Rebecca welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up I'm wondering what your thoughts are on purchasing a custom tiny home

okay so my situation is I'm going to a divorce um my daughter and I are living in an apartment and we're selling our

house and wondering um on the other end

of it I should have between 100 and 125,000 um from the equity I'm going to beef up my emergency fund and then I could pay cash for a c for a custom tiny house and my daughter is a senior in high school um otherwise I'll

probably stay in the apartment for a few years trying to save some more money just kind of was wondering I know how you feel about trailers I wasn't sure if it was the same with the tiny houses yeah what's your uh income uh 85,000 a year all right and um how long

were you married seven years I'm sorry it's a

hard thing to go through um yeah well here's the problem with the tiny house

um other than the fact that it's tiny here's the problem with the tiny house uh there is no track record out

there it's a fairly new phenomenon and there's no track record out there that says that there's a secondary market for it meaning when you get ready to sell it there's no evidence in the marketplace

yet that you're going to be able to sell it at all and that you'll be able to

sell it um uh for a price even close to

what you paid for it so you you could get really stuck um if they you know you

know so why is it I don't like mobile homes well there's a long track record

they go down in value 100% of the time

okay so we have a pattern an observable pattern and in finance things that's what you're looking for is an observable pattern and so it's why you would like for instance if you bought a home in a

neighborhood uh that is way out on the

edge of town and is brand new that's not as predictable an environment as buying

a home in a treelined street that has

been there for 20 years and is very predictable you follow me so yes even

those two neighborhoods those are both single family homes I'm discussing there but those two neighborhoods give you a predictable pattern and that's why I would never buy buy a tiny home because it's such a new phenomenon we don't know what's going to happen and and we do know this we do know this the market is uh is nowhere near the per the

number of people looking for a tiny home

at a given moment would be way smaller

than the number of people looking for a regular home agreed yes so your your opportunity to your your buyer pool that you would sell to is very small no pun intended

so not physically small but numberers

small but the uh there's a lot of tiny

home jokes here but yeah the uh yeah so I I yeah no I would not buy one for that reason it's that simple it's not that I hate on them or something like that I do hate the I this idea that they're

presented out there as somehow the answer to High house prices the answer

to this or that they're not the answer you know you know not yet someday there may be a robust Market of people buying

other people's tiny homes uh but today

there's not and so no I would tell you don't do that I would rent an apartment for a little while I don't think it's going to be five years I I I think you can go buy a home you have a good income you got 100,000 bucks to put down so get you a good 15year fix you you know Denver's an expensive Market it's tough to buy there but I would not give up on

real estate for 5 years so you you kind of presented me three options I'm going to be in an apartment I'm going to buy a tiny home or I'm going to be in an apartment and wait 5 years two options uh and I think you're in apartment a lot less than 5 years um but part of this is

you guys getting your your spirits and your emotions

reset after this pain that you two have

been through you and your daughter and uh just having a simple apartment situation is a not a bad thing for a year and just use that year to live very conserv conservatively and add to the $100,000 down payment and then talk about maybe this time next year you're talking about buying a home and you know it's presidential election year maybe we'll see interest rates come down who knows other than

the fact that they almost always do during a presidential election because it's hard to get elected you pretty much give up the White House if you give up the economy so we kind of got that coming right there is that and I you know I I also think just with all the pain and Trauma that they've going through that high school senior daughter needs some space and

and you're in a tiny home there's no space and her having her own you know place to move around that senior Year let you guys heal and get stable I think this comes from a lot of people feel like uh renting is throwing money away and it's not when we're getting stable it's not when it's patience with a plan yes yeah spoken like a dad of teenagers okay yes Mary is in Washington DC hi

Mary how are you doing okay how are you guys doing better than we deserve how can we help

yeah I was um calling in my husband and I have just started following your program um and you know we've made some

some I think smart decisions over the years but we've been doing things in the different in in the not necessarily the order that you guys have laid out and so I wanted to call in and check to see um sort of a a challenging question

a moral question is should we pull back

on things like tithing or retirement

in the short term to focus on debt it

feels odd to do that um but I know that

it's a hunk of of money so I don't know we're just calling to get get your thoughts and advice on that okay uh we

never tell people to pull back on their tithe okay their tithe is off the top its first fruits it says in Proverbs

many times and so it's the first thing you do so if you're a person of Faith which is what what you're indicating by saying tithe because that's that's a a

word associated with our faith um so

judeo-christian ethic of some kind you know whether you're Christian or Jewish either one but that's where the word tithe comes from so you're putting that upfront now the rest of it is um the

most powerful wealth building tool you have is your income and when you give it to someone else in the form of debt payments you slow down your ability to build wealth so how old are you you guys um 40 41 okay and how much debt do

you have not counting your home um about 60,000 on

what um 58 of it is um student loans and then 2,000 left on a car and um what's your household income um about 110 okay and how much do

you have in retirement now um we each have maybe between 80 and

100, and do you have any money that's not in retirement uh we have a little bit in savings what's a little bit ,000 $5,000 okay you don't have another mutual fund sitting around or another investment account or anything else no no it's all sort of wrapped up in retirement gotcha okay so what we would tell you to do and we think this is the short we know we've proven this is the shortest path to wealth versus

the one you're on is we would continue

our charitable giving continue tithing off the top before you do anything be on a detailed written Budget on the every dollar app the two of you are in agreement on what we're doing I would temporarily stop the retirement savings

and I would clean up this debt in the next 12 to 18 months and then you don't have any payments but a house payment but this student loan's going to hang around so long you think it's a freaking pet yeah it's been around for you know 15 plus years now oh it's a fat pet

okay yeah this thing need Sally May's got Sally May's gotten to be a toxic bother she needs to go may my gosh yes

yes and we've gotten it down I mean no you hadn't you still owe 58 don't tell me you guys it's $588,000 you you you need to attack this with complete focus and temporarily for a short period of time year to a year and a half I'd stop my retirement and I would attack that with a Vengeance like my hair was on fire and

uh if you do that I mean you put 30,000 a year on it you'll be done in 2 years you put 60,000 a year on it you're done in one year so somewhere between those two is probably where you're going to land and I'd really dial it up and get after it kiddo this is the Ramsey [Music]

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today our last caller 40 years old with

a student loan that's been around forever still hanging out with a student loan at 40 $58,000 student loan um and

of course we are most of us aware anyway that student loan interest restarted September 1 and the payments will start in a couple of weeks here again in October so we've got um somewhere around

44 million Americans with 1.7 trillion

dollar in debt that have this uh train barreling down the tracks at you so we

decided to help out because the name of our company is Ramsey Solutions so we need to give some solutions not just um not just squawking about it so we're going to do that tonight if you want to join us 7 p.m. tonight Tuesday night September the 12th we are doing a live

stream it's completely free it is me

Jade warshaw and Rachel Cruz we're going to be talking about student loan debt in

America how we got here and how we're going going to get out uh it'll be in four or five hours from right now if you're listening to us live but it is at 700 p.m. central Time Tuesday night September the 12th it's free just go to ramsy solutions.com studentloans and you can put in your email address and uh you'll be able to give the live stream a free watch we'll send you the link pretty simple Patricia is up next in Rono Virginia hi Patricia

how are you good thank you I have a question

about my auto okay so my question is my lease is coming up um I went to the dealership and the amount to buy it out is

$27,000 now um I don't know if I should

just go ahead and buy the car or get a cheaper car and and be just kind of like

Dead free because I will still have the

mortgage you have any money

uh I do have a savings of $30,000 okay um what is the car

worth uh 28,000 so $1,000 over the price

yeah so it's no bargain it's an okay deal but you can probably get that deal on a used car a lot so there's there's nothing that says to buy this car if you were sitting with um no car right now

and you told me you had $30,000 I would not tell you to buy a $28,000 car mhm cuz you only have $30,000 that

would be using up all of your money you see what I'm saying yeah so I'm going to toss them the keys when this lease is up and go buy you about a $10,000 car what do you make a year uh it depends but the minimum

55,000 it depends how much I work to be honest yeah well the maximum car you ought to buy would be uh 50% of your

income so that puts you at about you know 25,000 bucks but that's too much car because you don't have the money so if I woke up in your shoes I would have no car payment and be driving a very nice gently experienced $10,000 car now

the difference in a $10,000 car and a $30,000 car is pretty substantial but it's not it's not like it's unreliable it's not like it's not safe it's not like it's any of those things what is unreliable is being broke what is unsafe is being broke and $2,000

with a $30,000 car when you make 65,000 is broke I wouldn't put you there so I

wouldn't buy that car and I wouldn't buy anything anywhere near that price uh now if you told me you had 100,000 in savings yeah and you love this car maybe

but uh even then it's a lot of car for

someone with your income lot lot of money tied up yeah I I I've been shopping Dave you know this for teenagers you can get really decent cars

uh in the10 to 122,000 range even in in this so-called you know used car inflationary period you can do it you just have to swallow your pride and go wait a second I'd rather have more money than soall pride and you can get really decent cars that are functional and still in good shape it's very doable I look all the time I got two more to buy

next year I'm a used car expert Dave at least I'm self-proclaimed you know but I mean that's reality well you're finding stuff out there that's safe yes it's got a lot of life left in it it's not filthy trash on the I mean $15,000 car is not a hoopie no you know that's a nice car I

just got my son Ty a Ford Explorer 2012 Ford Explorer just give you an example $122,000 bought it from a nice local businessman had it in his it's HVAC if I said the name you'd know him and it was sitting in their parking lot they've treated it wonderfully it's in phenomenal shape his eyes about bugged out of his head and mine too I didn't expect to get any something that nice at that price range

but uh it's a fantastic car barely over 100,000 miles wow so I me got a lot of years left this isn't fantasy I'm not just saying this it's it's doable yeah that's what we would do in your shoes Kennedy is in

Indianapolis hi Kennedy how are you I'm

good how are you better than I deserve what's up um okay so this is actually for Ken

um more so so I applied for I'm and I'm

in a position I've been in it for a year and a half I meet all the qualifications to promoted to a senior position per the

guidelines that my job laid out the only thing I'm missing is the year and a half

of in the same position I've worked for the company for almost five years come February but I've been in this position for a year and a half they want me to be in it for three but I have all the other qualifications and they're like we're sorry we can't do anything because you don't have the extra year and a half so you just have to sit there for a year

and a half before we will promote you I don't know how to get around that I'm doing everything extra I listened to you a couple days ago and you were like you know just I asked my boss hey I want to be promoted I want to be a manager this is what I want to do what do I have to do to get it and she said you've got to wait

the year and a half yeah so there anything I can do no you have to decide

do you want to be there do you want to work there because they have laid out for you what is required and you know listen this is this is the tension between patience and persistence you know we want to move forward we want progress but it requires patience and so now they've laid it out very clearly for in fact I'll be honest with you I I'm really impressed that

they held the line on what they prefer I'm not they sound like a bunch of idiot bureaucrats well then there's Dave's opinion I mean really I mean why would you the woman the woman's been there five years she'd be promoted at Ramsey well but we don't know anything about the organization she meets all the other qualifications the only thing she hadn't done is sit on her butt in that one role for for a year

and a half all right so let me clarify I don't necessarily have to agree with it I respect the fact that they were clear and they've held the line and they're consistent so the point is they communicated clearly to you is what I was saying and I respect which gives you the opportunity to leave so now you get to decide do you want to wait another year

and a half or do you want to move on so so here's the ultimate if you knew

that they changed their mind today would you be super excited about the present and the future with this comp well then I love this I love the company it's just I I don't want to be stuck in the same role I am I want to get promoted I feel like I've deserve to get promoted because I have ask you this above all right let me ask you this yeah do do you agree with Dave that their uh that their uh requirement is it arbitrary or or do

they tie it to actual hours I don't even know what you do is it arbitrary or is it legit um what that they require three

years of experience so in their requirement have

eight different sections and you have to meet bu 50 50% in eight of those sections and then the requirement is minimum of three years in the same position doing the same role and I have

that from like outside experience but not three years with this company so not three years with them okay I get it all right I get what Dave is saying but she's been there five years yeah I think you should get the gig I've been with them for five years yeah listen I agree with Dave you should get the gig but I at least appreciate they've told you

so now you got to deal with it I don't think you being the squeaky Wheels going to change their policy some people in some companies like policy more than they do princip big company too of course yes guaranteed yeah it's a it's a policy over principle they have more rules than sense that's all they do they don't think well wait a second this lady's got this experience outside of here

she more than meets the require that's not the way they think so you got to decide do I want to be here and deal with the way they think or do I want to move on unfortunately that's what you're left with yeah I agreed agree great I mean they do have the right to do that it's their right they own it yeah and you know sometimes people don't agree with stuff

I do here and it's got my name on the billing though I do whatever I want to do that's right you don't have to agree with it but and then sometimes they leave because they don't agree with it and that's an option that's an option too Yep this is the ramsy

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hey it's Ken if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramsy solutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation again that's ramsy solutions.com and click get

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live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us America I'm Dave Ramsey your host Ken Coleman Ramsey personality host of the Ken Coleman show and author of the number one selling book from paycheck to

purpose where he helps people with their careers their jobs and their work and he's going to be doing that today right here on the Ramsey Show phone number here is 88255 225 Louisa is with us in

Washington DC hi Louisa how are you good

afternoon so great to be speaking with you today thank you so much for taking my call thank you what's up all right

I've got a what would Dave do scenario and I'm pretty sure I know what you're going to say but I'll kind of just want to walk through some options I have and it's concerning my mortgage so little bit of background um I have an arm um that resets every November and um it

hasn't really been you know much of an issue until recently obviously because the rates have gone up so it is resetting from 4 and a half to six and a half percent joyful um yep the balance

on the loan is 999,000 I've actually paid off 52,000 in the last year and I

am on track to pay this off my goal is December of 2025 okay so here are the scenarios I

just want to walk through want to get your thought um option one is just to

you know STI stick with you know stick with the the new payment coming up in November uh my payment is actually going down $180 even with the rate going up

because I've paid off so much so it's actually going down um $180 so that's

option one is just proceeding with you know six and a half% um and then you know would the rate would reset you know next year option

two is a recast and I've kind of read

where you're not a big fan of a mortgage recast um and want to get your thoughts on this so obviously the rate would stay the same six and a half percent um this

would require a $220,000 payment um by

the end of October and that would lower the payment $140 a month okay um so

that's option two and then why would you want to lower it if you're paying it off in two years what's the benefit well I I guess that's where I I

I think I don't I don't understand it's like we're trying to pay it off in two years or two and a half years right right so why how does lowering the payment accomplish that um I mean it's lowering the interest that I'm paying it's not that would be no it's not um if you recast you're going to recast at a lower interest rate no I'm

recasting I'm taking it from a balance of 999,000 to oh it would lower the

balance yeah but you could do that anyway you don't have to recast to do that yes I could and that's what I've been doing is just recast all recasting does is reset the payment based on a longer term it doesn't change the interest charged right right okay so

there's no benefit to you mathematically to recast okay given that you're planning to pay it off in two years yes correct

and here's the other thing is that I I don't have $20,000 just sitting around right there's that right exactly so that kind of brings me to option three um and let me let me just preface this by saying I heard you about a year and a half ago maybe two years ago before the rates you know were creeping up because I was going to re refinance and

I remember you telling a caller don't refinance if you can pay it off in three years so I kind of went with that model and I'm I'm on I'm on target I'm on track to pay this off and that that is really why I did not refinance um but option three would

be digging into my brokerage account and

paying it off entirely I have I have about $200,000 I'd have to cash you know

not in a retirement you have a brokerage account sitting there with enough to pay it off yes I do pay it off

today and yeah I knew you knew I was GNA do that I I did I did I still wanted to

walk through the options okay so if if you had a paid for home with a brokerage

account with $100,000 Less in it would you go borrow $99,000 on your home paid

for home to put more money in your brokerage account no it's the same

thing yeah yeah I think I think I'm just

having some

let me tell you what's going to happen all right that you don't anticipate because I've been the other side of it myself and with a whole bunch of other people you do not understand

when you pay this off and you walk out in the backyard with no shoes on that the grass is going to feel so much different there's going to be a level of Peace blow through your home like a nice

cool wind that you don't even know is

coming when you owe no man

nothing all this hand ringing you've been doing for the last few minutes trying to figure out what to do all that's gone just clean and simple you just own

your house you're weird I love

it I love it and listen if you really

hate it then go get your new mortgage

yeah but I don't think you're going to hate it I think you're going to feel freedom that you have not felt in your adult life yep and I know that from the having

experienced it myself because I don't have any dad and haven't had for 30 years and I walk around without all of

these weights on my shoulders and um that that a lot of people have and I get to make different decisions and have a different level of calm in the middle of a storm and all of

that pay off your house Louisa please I

promise you you won't regret it but if I'm completely Bonkers and you do regret it you can always go get you another mortgage and theoretically put it back at The Brokerage there's a fear there you could hear it yeah well no it's just this angst of the devil I know yeah

that's right the devil I know versus the peace I've never known and um it's I

don't know if I'm doing something wrong I don't know if which is the correct thing and let me just tell you man when you get no payments in the whole

freaking world financial

peace two words that don't go together like Airline service man wow like Postal Service sorry to you

postal people oh my gosh sorry to you Airline people I mean really I mean it's financial piece two words that don't go together I mean I've got money and a brokerage I've got my emergency fun I've

got retirement going and I own my whole

freaking house some of you need to breathe that in and make that a goal some of you spend a lot of calories

flipping stuff over in your head ringing your hands trying to figure out something when the answers are usually pretty simple clean it up people simp

simplify simplify that's it simplify yeah hard to beat guys hard to

beat this is the Ramsey

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Ramsey

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today our question of the day

for the ramsy show is sponsored by neighborly your hub for home services from repairs and maintenance to Remodeling and upgrades neighborly trusted home service providers have trained local experts who can handle almost any job so go to neighbor.com to

find and schedule service today today's question comes from Roger in South Carolina I'm a 20-year-old male currently studying aerospace engineering I know the Aerospace industry is very cyclical so I was wondering if having a one-year salary emergency fund would be a good idea before having kids well I'm

sitting next to the guy who uh created the concept I I don't think a year is necessary and and I don't know enough to understand why he believes the Aerospace industry is so cyclical but

six months uh if you're in kind of a a

Topsy Turvy industry like that I think would be good I I don't hate having a one-year emergency fund but is it necessary no with credential Roger you're an engineer you over analyze things your job is to perceive risk and

so you see risk everywhere but there's not that much risk you will be fine if you have an aerospace engineering degree you will be able to get a job and feed your family sometime in the six-month period yeah six months is fine but um and here's the other thing the more money you put into that the slower you build wealth the faster

you build wealth the less you worry about an emergency fund if you got a million dollars in a mutual fund and $5,000 in mutual in an emergency fund you don't have enough in your emergency fund but you got a million dollars in a mutual fund so you're going to be okay yeah you know mean So the faster you build wealth the less you have to worry about any of this so you're going to be just fine Tom's in St Paul Minnesota hi

Tom welcome to the Ramsey Show hey DAV and Ken I just want to say starting off um your principles have you know changed my wife my wife's life in my life so just want to thank you guys for your ministry thank you how can we help yeah um so so uh so getting to my question a little bit of context um last month I actually called Ken uh called Ken on his show

and I was just laid off from my mortgage loan officer job actually working at Wells Fargo and uh I was looking for places to basically trying to figure out references and Ken gave me great advice and a month later I now have a job at a Toyota dealership um selling cars so really exciting uh I

guess my main question is is a lot of people are coming in they're financing their car uh they're leasing their car s in fact you know there's some incentive for us to push leases just because from our standpoint you know that creates repeat customers now none of this stuff is stuff that I would recommend to my loved ones I would never do it myself um is there am I in the wrong if I'm in a

position where I'm where I'm sometimes selling these if if so should I consider changing jobs or what what are your thoughts well I don't you're not ethically doing anything wrong this is not an illegal activity but because you don't believe in it we don't believe in it either but this is about your principles eventually this is going to eat away at you so shortterm uh I I I would be looking for

something to make a transition because long term this will eat away at you and listen you know I talk about engagement all the time I study the data listen a person who doesn't believe in the mission the product the service of a company is not going to be fully engaged

and that has a lot of negative effects Financial opportunities for you promotional opportunities it affects your health your mental health and Beyond so I think long term if I'm a guy like you that has a strong principle conviction that you have I would eventually move on from selling something that you just don't believe in yeah it's it's not something you have to run out of the hair building today like your hair's on fire like

you discovered the boss had 20 pounds of cocaine in his office you don't you don't hang out there another day okay that's not what's going on this is uh you know a

disagreement of how the product works and so uh Rabbi Lapin talks about the

his book He's my good friend Orthodox Jewish rabbi and he wrote a book called Thou shalt prosper and um the book is

the 10 reasons that Jewish people have had an inordinate probability of s being

financially successful in any point in human history they tend to thrive and why is that one of the things is they believe that making money is an honorable thing if you're doing an honorable thing and uh one of the things he points out in that chapter it's one of the 10 things is that it's uh if you're doing something that's psychologically incompatible with your belief system it's very difficult to be good at

it and so you you know back that's another way of saying exactly what Ken said and so yeah I'm completely aligned with what Coleman is saying here if I were in your shoes I would say I'm going to give myself 60 days and I'm going to be somewhere else MH um because they're

the the they are going to sell car leases because they make more money on car not because of repeat customers but because they make more money on car leases than they do on the actual sale of the car and they make more money on car leases than they do if they do a regular Finance plan with a bank and uh

they make more money on car leases than they do just about anything else it's the one of the most profitable parts of the entire Auto industry now and so it's

massively profitable for them this paper is amazing and so they're they're not only going not going to to not stop it they're going to push it because it's where they make their money and so that's how it is it's like there's a a series of Articles have gone around the last few years that if you work at Victoria Secret selling uh small

underwear right you you have to sell a

certain number of Victoria's Secret credit cards or they will not give you hours oh okay because they're in more in

the credit card business than they are the small underwear business right right small underwear is there just to get you into the credit card debt interesting into big debt small underwear big debt there it is so there you go that's how that's a great slogan you you to you to box that one up and sell it you anyway yeah that's so but if you if you want to work

there in that store in the retail store uh you're not going to get ours you're not going to be promoted if you don't sell credit cards even if you sell a whole bunch of small underwear and you don't sell any credit cards you're going to be on the street they they you know but that's the business they're in they know where their money is coming from they know what

the profit centers are and they're going to drive you that way so then you've got to decide as an employee are you going to plug into that and I think you've already decided oh sure Tom I think he's already on he already decided and just once permission is this silly no it's not silly at all no it's smart Brian is in Jacksonville Florida hey Brian welcome to

the Ramsey Show hey Dave how you doing today better than I deserve what's up oh glad to hear it um I have a question for you um I'll give you a little background information on myself um I'm 40y old I have two kids

my wife's a stay home mom we own a town home we ow we owe about 55,000 left on it uh my wife has some savings around

60k and I'm debating whether I should use that money to pay up the house or if I should invest it um like in an IRA or something for the future um but the thing is we're in a small town home and we're looking to get some a little bit more a little bit more space for you know for the family cuz kids are sharing a room I got a boy

and a girl when are you when are you mov we're not moving at all yet we just we like to get another property because we like to have what mean is two years or a year or 10 minutes oh it probably be next couple years three years pay it off pay it off today okay today the

reason I asked is my financial advisor tells me not to because he says my interest rate in my home is going to be less than what I'd be making in the stock market that's why I figured guess what he didn't make a dime

when you pay off the house he makes a commission when you invest the money with him I understand that hello okay

ding ding ding ding and I didn't make a dime either way so you do whatever you want to do but if I woke up in your shoes I'd have a paid for house now you need to get yourself on a budget and you need to sit down with another financial adviser that's not giving you stupid butt advice and get you an IRA started and get your kids four get your kids 529 started

and let's get some investing going and get yourself on a budget with your wife and the two of you working together let's get detailed and dial this money stuff in man cuz it's kind of feels like you're Loosey Goosey running out here just trying to figure this out as you go and you need to dial it in and make sure every dollar is barking every dollar is doing what it's supposed to do

so getting the every dollar app getting Financial Peace University do that kind of stuff but uh if I woke up in your shoes I'd pay my house off today dude just like that no question the this is the ramsy

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us America if you like what you hear around here you could help us out and we'd appreciate it click the follow button the Subscribe button the share button

share the show share a link tell people where you're listening on talk radio or TBN or whatever it is spread the word about the show and leave a five star review they're very helpful all of those things the share the like the uh subscribe the follow all of those things really push the show to the front of the

algorithms and cause people to find us and it doesn't cost you a thing and we would appreciate the help thank you very much Trevor is in Salt Lake City hi

Trevor welcome to the Ramsey Show thanks for having me Dave I really appreciate it sure um I grew up watching grew up listening to your show with my parents so huge fan of yours well thank you I got a qu I got a question for you

um regarding um either reinvesting in my

business or purchasing a home and I can give you a little bit of information about it so I'm 23 years old I'm getting married in a week wow and I thank you

good for you congrats thank you um between me and my

fiance we have about $50,000 in our savings account uh we have no debt um my

business has about $75,000 in asset

um as well as I have about $25,000 in Investments mutual funds CDs stuff like that um and I'm just wondering with your expert opinion what I should do if I should reinvest in my business um to continue to grow it or whether or not I should look into purchase purchasing a home at how much do you need to reinvest in the business and why um so the reason I'm reinvesting in my business

I just bought a new skider I do landscaping um I've been able to pay everything cash trailers equipment um I just got a new skit and I'm looking to purchase a second truck um I have three

employees um so looking to have a second truck for them as well as a new trailer um and just upgrading some of our mowing equipment and stuff like that okay if you spend that money you're going to spend what 20 30,000 bucks

correct and what does that cause you to make because you spent that that you wouldn't make if you didn't spend it okay so this uh I'm anticipating this year to make back 80,000 um that's after

uh taxes everything um and I'm anticipating if I can get that reinvestment um I can make an additional 20 to 30 um so you can make the money

back any year next year um yes probably

you spend 20 or 30 you make an extra 20 or 30 as a result correct okay and

sounds like you got $75,000 um correct and that's in equipment and you make uh trailers no no no you you have 75,000 cash you have 25 in a mutual fund and 50 in your account right uh yeah approximately all right

and uh what does your wife make um she makes about 40 a year and

you're going to net on your business 100 uh no I'm anticipating 80 this year

I reinvested quite a bit this year I just bought the skider about two weeks ago um so that ran me a little bit and I do owe um the only debt I have is I my

father who um was gifted me 15,000

towards my skider I bought so I'm going to pay him back was that a gift or alone uh alone more or less well that's

an interesting piece of information for a guy for 10 minutes has been telling me he was debt free you're not debt free you owe your dad 15 grand no you're not going to invest in your business you're going to be paying your dad back I'm I will pay it off in

the next month no today you have the money in your account right now you shouldn't have taken it from him in the first place you got 50,000 bucks you need to

borrow 15,000 from your dad correct I just wanted to keep some money in an emergency fund where where I am self-employed I just and getting married I wanted to be able to have the money shouldn't have bought a

sker if you need the money if you need the money for an emergency fund you shouldn't have bought a skid steer but you bought one now and now you got a loan and now you got to pay it off I'd pay that off today uh and then what I would do is get married and spend the first year of your marriage piling up cash for a good down payment on a house

and after you've been married a year you will make a different purchase than after you've been married a week it's a different house it takes a

year of being married to know how close to your mother-in-law or your father-in-law who loaned you money for skid steers that you want to live how close do you want to live with these people yeah it takes a year to figure that out so um it's a joke but not

really yeah I I was going to say a lot of truth of that the other thing too is is there I would be challenging myself how can I make an additional $5 $20,000 a year over the next year of my business without spending 20 to 30 you know get Innovative um and and and especially in that first year of marriage he was already worried that's why he took

the loan out from his dad I believe yeah so Trevor you need to quit buying toys for your business that you haven't done a careful Roi on because you're not going to get an Roi on this skid steer that's bull crap you're not going to make enough on that thing to justify having purchased it you would have made you would have been better off buying mowing equipment to expand your operation than than with

the skid steer so quit buying

business toys that don't have very fast

large Roi stop it I had a friend of mine

that's in the building business and he bought a skid steer now I bought a skid steer the other day too did you really yeah there's one out at the farm for but I bought it for no reason at all except have the money it's a toy you like moving dir well I got my grandson in my lap digging up stuff that doesn't even need to be dug up all right

so this is embarrassing this won't surprise Dave at all but you guys are throwing skid steer around skid steer this skid I had to Google it real quick James a bobcat it's a bobcat I bet I would have know it's a bobcat on tracks it's pretty cool looking machine if it's on tracks it's a skid steer right so basically you papa Dave got his own real life Tonka it's a toy yeah that's exactly what

I did it is it's and good for you yeah it's fun cuz your grandson thinks that's really cool my God it's a giant there is no cooler Papa Dave in the world than one with a skid deer so what I'm hearing is live like an onl so later you can dig holes for no reason at all yes to make your

grandson happy that's the dream of every grandfather hey every four-year-old's dug a hole for no apparent reason and every 64 year-old apparently is going to do the same thing you never get over it I was going to say live like just so the public knows I'm not anti-skid steer okay I'm just saying but from a business perspective don't buy stuff that you can't Roi quickly every and I got to

tell you here's an interesting thing working with uh people on our trade leadership very few women do this in

business it's kind of a male thing yeah

it's a male stupid thing it's toys and they do it they do it with they do it with computers right the guys that do all this equipment stuff in here M I have to constantly go no we don't need another one right good God how many microphones do I need to own

seriously boys collect toys man there's just something about it and I I ladies they they're very careful but often times I have to get them to go the other way it's hard to get them to do the actual investment they need to do right to to because they're conservative on it but very few women in business collect toys like boys do and you know what's interesting I'll bet

you can prove this they're much more resourceful as well think about the mom who always makes the science project happen under the wire you know with a couple of straws you know a rubber band here it's like you can build that business that landscaping business without that new truck you can't you just got to be Innovative and that's where Innovation comes from is when we have a lack of resources Craig Grell talks about that a lot yeah in fact

he he's the one that it was mind-blowing I think I interviewed him years ago when I was hosting on trade leadership it's one of the best thoughts on Innovation that I've ever heard is from Craig Rochelle yeah it create a lack creates necessity to become creative on

how you're going to do it if you can't do it any other way and so that's why your dad did you no favor loaning you that money right so that's the thing so all that to pick on you Trevor because we love you and we want you to win so pay off your dad today uh get a little apartment and uh set up house and concentrate on loving each other not on stupid real estate deals for

the first year of your marriage and after you've been married a year and saved up a little more money above your emergency fund and you're truly debt-free and the next time you tell somebody you're debt free make sure you are uh

then uh then from there you pay you put

down with an a good strong down payment on a 15-year fixed after you've been married a year that's what I would do if I were in your shoes congratulations on the marriage this is the Ramsey

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[Applause] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thanks for hanging out with us America this is the Ramsey Show we're so glad you're here hey guys uh

George camel and the every dollar team are hosting a free live virtual training

for your budget yeah you're going to learn how to find more margin in your finances to spend without guilt and to make a budget that actually works first one is happening September the 19th at 12:30 Eastern Time spots are limited you

can pick one with George uh Jade warshaw is going to be doing some I think Rachel Cruz might be doing another one too so uh all these budgeting webinars are completely free go to every dollar

com/ budgeting and we'll help you get started with this stuff all right here we go Josh is in Orlando hi Josh welcome to the Ramsey Show hey never grow up especially if you can afford it right gentlemen that's right there's the plan what's up man okay so I have a pro and a

cons so here's my dilemma and I'm actually so I'm trying to get as debt free as I possibly can I have uh 17 No

about1 19 $20,000 in credit card debt

and then that's my primary and then my secondary is my auto loan which I'm about 11,000 upside down um And in

regards to my credit card um I have

18,000 in RSU uh shares for my company

and then I have $7,000 in a traditional IRA wanting to know if I should uh use

my stock to my use wanting to know if I should use both to pay off my credit card debt I would not use an IRA I would use your stock okay and the reason for not using the IRA penalties taxes okay leave those

alone and I would quit adding to the IRA and I would cut up the credit cards and never touch the stupid things again get a debit card do not even own a credit card okay 100 100% And then what about

the ra to where I cash it out I have it in a savings account you already have yeah I uh well I did I did the

transfer or I did the the part of the work but I haven't fully transferred it to my my personal savings

account when did you do this uh I did it last Friday to where it was effective for me to utilize today okay uh well you've got 60 days to

undo it without penalty and so I'm going to get go to ramseys solutions.com and click on smartvestor and find a smart Vestor Pro in the area to help you undo it and get it back into an IRA before you get hit with the penalties and the taxes how much was in that you said there's only like 7,000 in the account though right yeah it was only it was only seven yeah

so you're probably only going to lose three or 4,000 bucks but that's still a ridiculous I mean you're paying 40% interest effectively to get the money fre you up I would not do that I think it's a good practice for you to learn to leave that alone so let's roll that back into while you're in the 60-day window back get your an IRA set up with a with a smart Vestor Pro

and

um then then start your um I'm sorry

then cut up your credit cards and pay them all off and then you still got to clean up your auto loan that's your next thing so beans and rice rice and beans no adding to any Investments of any kind

and we're completely focused on clearing this debt that's the next process there

so good question open phones atle 8825

5225 Tyler is in Jacksonville Florida hi

Tyler welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave how's it going better than I deserve what's up yeah so I got a a little bit of a dilemma here with u some in-laws I guess

give you a backstory I'm married uh moved away from home and or I guess I

said in-laws but my my parents um moved

away from home and you know they're my mother's not in a great financial situation um she hasn't been working um

and and has some tax issues from a past business and she's asking to borrow some

money to make a house payment and um you know I feel led to um but I'm also trying to talk to her in in the nicest

way possible to try to sort out a longer

term plan than you know make a payment and then what do we do next month and what do we do next month uh my siblings uh aren't as financially capable to to help so I feel like how old are you Tyler falling to me what was that how old old are you uh 28 how old is your

mother um 57 okay on what planet is the 28y old

supposed to take care of the 57y old that was too trifling to do it

herself it's not your job man it's not your job yep and I bet your wife isn't happy with this either um no no what do you

um combined we're making probably 250

260 you're making bank aren't you good for you okay what is your mom doing

nothing calling Tyler for money she not

working at all no not no not currently uh well take

me back when when when was she

working um it's been a while um she she

had a housing housing company quite a

while ago and why is she not

working um um not a there's not a good reason I

guess I don't think so either okay so you giving her money is not sustainable because you were correct in your wisdom when you observed that you're going to be doing it again next month and next month and next month and next month because you're enabling her bad behavior

yeah instead what I would do is come alongside her and say Mom mom I'm going to be your biggest cheerleader I'm going to give you some suggestions and some help and show you what to do so you can straighten this out first thing we're going to do is we're going to get into Ken Coleman's book uh from paycheck to purpose and we're going to get you a job

and a career and then I'm going to put you on to every dollar on a budget and you're going to make money and pay your own bills and you're going to like yourself more when you do that I am not

going to pay your bills mom but I will be here for you you I love you and I will help you figure out a way to pay your bills and she's not going to like that Tyler because she likes doing

nothing yeah yeah I think that could be the case yeah she's GNA get angry with you and she's going to become a travel agent with for guilt trips which is what codependent people do when their enaer Cuts them off yeah yeah I'm sorry this is going to

be tough but you're being very wise I'm not trying to just be mean to your mom I'm disrespecting her I'm disrespecting her because her behaviors are awful but

I'm not trying to be mean to her she needs to change her behavior so that she has a quality life she's 58 freaking years old there's nothing wrong with this woman she could get a job and pay her bills instead of mooching off her 28-year-old son and so she it's good for her she's going to like herself better all the other brothers and sisters are going to like her better um everybody's going to

be a lot happier when Mom gets her crap together am I missing something no no I think that's right I just yeah kind of what you said just trying to figure out the the best way to go about it without you know being mean I guess you're not being mean when you

don't give a drunk a drink it's not good for a drunk to have a bottle of Jack Daniels it's not good for a heroin addict to be to be loaded up with Heroin it's not good for them they don't like it when you tell them no but it's not good for them this is not good for your mom loving your mom

well is helping her get a life that is

not filled with chaos A Life That's not filled with uncertainty and A Life That's not un that's not sustainable and it doesn't have any dignity and so um now again I don't you

you're not being mean now she's going to tell you you're being mean that's so mean you have plenty of money what's wrong with you Tyler I raised you you can give me a little that's what it sounds like yeah that's exactly what it's going to sound like coming back at you that's called a travel agent for guilt trips she's going to pitch one on you I'd be more worried about upsetting my wife than

I would be upsetting my mom and I think that's what this is going to come down I would be worried that I'm doing harm to my own mother who I love there's that too and when you support the misbehavior you're doing harm to them enablers are not

helpers they're cowards who won't say no

that's what they are don't be a coward love her well enough that you help her for real hel her and if you want to put her through Financial Peace University you call our team will give it to you this is the ramsy [Music]

show hey it's Ken if you love The Show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey Way go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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Newsletter [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today the phone number here is 88255 225 thank you for joining us Robin

is in Phoenix hi Robin welcome to the ramsy show hi thank you gentlemen for taking my call sure I am going to retire in about

three years at 76 I have no mutual fund and no

401K my question is should I buy or rent

at that time at

76 okay how would you be able to buy if

you don't have any money yeah well I've got these I've got

time so currently my income is 4500 a

month 2K is going to rent 2K is going to

student loans and five and I spend 500

on um daily on debt living you know

living expenses you you're 70 years old

and you have a student loan yes yes I haven't p off yet but I

will pay it off it expected to be paid

off in March of

24 okay what's the balance on it 12,000 wow so I'm paying 2,000 a

month on that 2K 2K month all right I

I'm really curious how you end up with a student loan at your age how did you do

that well that's called paying the interest i i p paid the interest only

for a long time so what's a long

time um since since 2020 since 2005 I guess

that's when I graduated you graduated in in 05 so you graduated 20 years or 18

years ago and you've been paying and your degree is in what or that that particular degree that

I've got some more since that time but that particular degree was in Communications okay all right and what do you do for a living I'm a Quality Inspector okay wow all right

um the the thing that runs through my head is this uh obviously you at

retirement have to have monthly money to pay uh an electric bill and buy food and uh provide shelter

okay uh the largest line item in your

budget for the rest of your life if you live to b95 another 20 something years

is going to be um

housing and if you're renting your cost

of housing is going to go up every year because rent always goes up does that

make sense yes if you buy at least you're

locked end to what you're going to be spending on housing from this point

forward so buying is good having a paid

off home by the time you get there is even better and of course having a nest egg to live on so do you have a pension

in the background of this or are you counting on just Social Security to feed you no um I'll finish the rest um so

right currently what I have is a universal life policy that has a cash

value approximately 9,000 in it I'm reluctant to cash it out because it has

a long-term care Rider of a of 50 months

on it at 4% so that's going to give me

uh 15 about 1,500 a month just for that

now as I share um at the End by the time

I retire I will have a approximately

$500 in pension and 2500 I'm guessing

2500 in Social Security which you give me 3,000 and and you have no money in

savings at all my,

$1,000,000 okay all right I want you to

cash the universal in and pay the student loan down and let's be done with a student loan very quickly let's get that in the background as soon as possible so we can try to accomplish a couple of these other goals which is housing and start to build some kind of a nest egg over the next 3 years so basically you're going to live on beans and rice for

the next 3 years while you throw as much money towards housing buying a home and as much money towards a nest egg as you can throw and both of those are going to be better moves than a bad Universal policy so we've got to get the student loan in your rearview mirror to pull that

off get the student loan in your rearview mirror build an emergency fund and then start saving for a down payment while you're putting at least 15% of your income or more into retirement and I want you to save as much as you can save for retirement while putting down as much as you can put down on a house and and when you do buy a home I want

you to buy a very modest a very inexpensive property I am more concerned that you have basic shelter that is locked in on its monthly cost than I am you having a home that you are necessarily thrilled with okay that makes sense yeah I want

to stabilize I'm trying to stabilize your future that's what I'm that's my first goal your luxury or your comfort are secondary but stabilizing the shelter aspects over your future next 20 years is really what I got to lean on

and uh wow wow well the the good news is I

think you can actually make a pretty good dent in 36 months on this if you'll be very focused um I think that might be one of the oldest St student loan debt callers I've had it it's it's mindboggling I'm sitting there listening to that and because we're having the student loan live stream tonight uh it's absolutely free uh Ramsey solutions.com 7M Central

8 Eastern it's important to point out that she is and I don't throw this word around lightly you know this Dave she's a victim of this cultural message that

has said if you get a degree you're going to get a raise and sometimes that's true many times it's not and she kept getting was in Communications and I'm not in

Communications exactly she's in quality assurance and so you got to be careful these degrees don't come with jobs you still got to go out and find them get them and perform them well and I I'm not I'm not trying to be unkind but there are so many people that still believe uh you go through a layoff at 45 or at 50 you go I got to go get more education maybe but probably not probably not yeah

not at the cost of sitting at 70 years old St student loan debt no and see that's the exchange that makes me so angry about and let me just be honest let me be an equal opportunity offender folks both sides of the political aisle are in the business of student loans it's big business it's a lot of money and no one's talking about legislation or regulation to stop it to stop it and to take on the unbelievable inflation in

the world of tuition is not doing a service no you people in government are

not helping that's right the population

you are harming the people that you're call called to govern it's a hidden tax Dave and and people are getting filthy

stinking rich off the backs of people like her and it's really does need to stop it really I mean seriously would somebody grow a leadership backbone and send it to Washington DC this is the Ramsey

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[Music] Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today Dr John delone has a brand new book coming out called building a non-anxious life you can pre-order the book right now for $20 and you'll get $75 in bonus items nearly half the US

population says their lives are affected by anxiety stress burnout it's everywhere but here's the thing anxiety isn't actually the problem it's the symptom the problem is we're unsafe disconnected healthy living like we have no say and what happens next and in this book Dr deloney walks you through six daily choices to recognize and break

free from A Life That's spinning out of control it is amazing this book is

selling like hot cakes too and we it comes out technically October 3rd if you pre-order you get $75 in bonus items which is includes instant access to one of Dr John's talks newest talks smoke fire and freedom that is a great talk and also you're going to get the ebook and the audio book Ramy solutions.com building a nonanxious

life Christopher is in Corpus Christie

Texas hi Christopher welcome to the Ramsey Show hey DAV Ken thank you for having me on sure what's up so give you a quick backstory I'm

recently engaged our wedding is in June I have a full-time job making 34,000 a year I also go to school full-time to be a radiology tech I have no debt and I have an emergency phont of 20K me and my fiance are on the same page about not going into debt for the wedding and not spending more than 5K on our budget for the wedding I recently made

it to step four but I'm confused if I should be investing 15% while also saving for a wedding and bouncing out a home no you ought to be saving for the wedding and for your education until you're married don't worry about a home and don't worry about retirement right now okay okay you'll get you got time to get to both right now you need to get married pay cash for

the wedding and uh

even if you Bo beef up the budget a little bit that's okay your budget's not out of control on this wedding and um

make sure you get through the school and pay cash for all of it so you need the margin in your life to just be piling up cash right now until June right yeah let's let's worry about it retirement and worry about buying a house a year or two from now

okay so I should just be saving for the wedding and for your life yeah just pile

up money right now I want you to get I want you to get your education finished I want you to get married lower lower stress on both of these with a big old pile of cash and then when you get out and the wedding is over if you've got a little money left over that's your head start start towards your emergency fund and towards your down payment

but you're there's no don't don't you're putting too much pressure on yourself to try to do all these things at once okay you got time man you got time how old are you I'm 24 you got plenty of time you're gonna be okay Christ I can hear your brain you're processing what Dave's saying but it's it you're something's got you hung up what's going

on nothing I just you're just goal

oriented yeah I guess you could say that but I I started school late so uh I just

I'm doing my Basics right now and my remedial courses so I feel like I kind of started late in the game so you feel like you're behind yeah you're not yeah you're not you're not you're you're way ahead because you actually know what you want to do that's right and you got and

you're running down a very clearly defined track your plan you laid it out perfectly in just a few moments on the air here in front of 20 million people that that's impressive I mean you really that's a great job you're doing a whole lot better than it feels like you're doing you're going to get to the other things I'm not saying don't do them I'm just saying don't worry about them now a year from now two years from now we'll worry about those right now pay cash for

the wedding finish your degree pay cash for that pile up money it's all you need to do right now that and that's plenty that's plenty making 34k that's a big enough task as it is yeah you can do it all but not at the same time and I think that's pretty much true uh in any area of life so you're going to be okay and give yourself a break

I there's I can feel him beating up on himself a little bit I'm behind I'm behind yeah no you'll be okay you're not the fact of the matter is with our plan you're going to catch up with a lot of people you're probably by March yeah

but you know why he's a tortoise and he's focused and the Tortoise always wins that race every time you're exactly right Jeremy's in Houston hi Jeremy welcome to the Ramsey Show hi thanks for having me sure what's up yeah so my

primary question today uh and I probably just need to hear you say it is trying to work out how much house I can really afford because when I start to look at the numbers I I begin to feel like maybe I'm going a little bit crazy and then it just kind of spirals into should I ever even think about buying a place or should I rent

forever well that's a false narrative you don't have to rent forever that's not a real option you know that that's just drama queen right well no oh so I

don't mean to sound dramatic actually I don't necessar but I mean that happens we have a little drama all of us have a little drama in our head and that one's that when you spiral out like that that's the little drama queen in your head I mean you know you're not going to rent forever and you know that's dumb because rent goes up every year so renting is a good short-term plan

but it's not a good long-term plan you already knew that right I I sort of I sort of knew that but I didn't actually feel that renting was necessarily I don't mean it in negative connotation oh it's negative it's not a good idea long term I'll give it to you negative it's here's why it's negative it's not because it's a class status thing it's because your cost of housing goes up every year for 45 or 50 years you're going to pay more every single year

if you rent and and that's that's a death nail to your finances versus if you own the value of the home

is going up and if you're making a payment on a fixed rate 15year that we

tell you to do the payment is locked in the only reason it would change is taxes and insurance but it won't change otherwise and so you've locked in the largest line item in your budget which is housing and it's going up in value versus nothing is going up in value when you're renting longterm and it and your rent goes up every stinking year the largest line item in your budget takes up more of your money every year

so you don't want to do that long term but you may want to do it for a year or two while you get some other things done like getting out of debt and getting your emergency fund in place and and then um let me just tell you uh one of

the things you experience when you learn to live debt-free is is that you are living like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else and when you live within a reasonable Budget on housing there's going to be people around you that are buying a nicer house on a 30-year adjustable rate

mortgage maxing themselves out where they can't breathe and they're taking on a house payment that is crazy as a

percentage of their income and and they don't make any more than you make and it looks like they're winning they're not winning they're destroying themselves

and meanwhile you're over here uh in in

a much more modest property feeling like you're losing and the reality is you're winning does that any of that sound right no it does sound right and and you

know the numbers make me feel a little bit crazy because I feel like I earn a pretty good living my situation I make after taxes about 140

Thou after taxes after 401K about 140,000 a year okay well we say say put

a 15year fixed rate no more than a fourth of your take-home pay and that's not counting 401K that's just taxes coming out of your take-home pay so what's your take-home pay not counting for a1k and a 15-year fixed rate

interest rates are higher now than they were this time last year obviously uh the good that's the bad news the good news is that that um you know well

there's a shortage of housing so we're still seeing house prices go up but you can find a house you probably can get a seller to give you some atten right now inventory is really low but um which is holding the prices up but the um but if

you can find a house you know if you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund you have a good down payment you're going to buy something more conservative than your peers no question about it yeah but again it's not it's it's the long game that's the definition of winning is not don't follow your broke friends right it's not how fast you come out of the gate it's how you finish and and got to remember that it's so you're not making 500 a year you're making 140

a year I mean it's a lot of money it's a

lot it's double the household income average but it's only double it's not 4X

and it's not 6X so you know average

house price in your area plus a little that's what you're going to be getting this is the ramsy

show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

Solutions on the debt free stage Nick and Laura are with us hey guys how are you good how are you Dave better than I deserve where do you guys live San Bernardino California oh fun welcome to Nashville and here to do a debt free scream how much have you paid off 223,000 I love it and how long did that take 99 months 99 months look at you and

uh your range of income during that 99 months we started at 71,000 and ended at

195 very cool what do you'all do for a living well I am a homeschool mom and I also do real estate on the side mhm and I work for the County local government there okay very good well you guys are doing well so 99 months 223 is this your

house this is everything Dave 1 to 7 paid off the house everything look at it weird people yep I mean you live in freaking San Bernardino California and have a paid for house yes this is a big deal what's this house worth little over 600,000 I bet it is I love it congratulations ding ding

how much you guys got in your Investments for retirement so forth uh we have about 150 in roths and about 200

in a pension all right so that puts you at millionaire status doesn't it baby steps millionaires right on the line anyway yeah really close if we throw in the furniture we're there yeah all right there's not much Furniture

Dave way to go guys congratulations how

old are you 42 42 42 and a paid for

house and basically C baby steps millionaires I'm so proud of y'all thank you tell us the story what happened 99 months ago how'd you get connected to this ramsy stuff well we uh I listened

to you when I was younger um probably when we were both younger Dave um and I

was doing good and and uh we were moving in the right direction I worked for a bank and we went South we went on the borrowing Trend and uh we borrowed everything we could we wood burning stoves credit cards everything else you can do somewhere along the lines we just started going negative every month every month we were you know we were losing money we were just not saving

we were just going red red red red red until one day I realized I couldn't pay couldn't put gas in my car without putting on a credit card felt like a loser felt like a pretty bad father because we had just had uh two beautiful girls and I kind of remembered everything I listened to on the radio went back and and uh restarted

um in our mid-30s and then we suffered a lot over the last 8 years and here we are so MH MH mhm so Laura he walks in and goes uh

this isn't working what' you say I said

okay well how do we fix it and he said oh well there's this Dave Ramsey guy and he has this plan and we're going to have to cut everything I'm going to sell my dream truck and I said oo hard

pass I don't think so that sounds terrible actually you know I had two babies and I I didn't want to do it but

I I wanted to support my husband and so I did it for about nine months without my heart in it but I did it you know to the letter and then one day we were sitting at the dining room table and we paid off our car and I looked up and I said oh my gosh this could

work this amazing and ding ding light

comes on it came on and I started listening to the show and you know it was Game On from there my heart was in it and then it it was different you know from then on yeah wow wow so it took nine months of you kind of dragging her along huh yeah and then she goes okay wait a minute that gum this stuff is yeah okay I like be something here Nick

I picked up on the word suffering which

was a little bit sarcastic but yeah yeah but I I think he's actually there's probably a lot of Truth to that and and and I want people to hear it's not easy how difficult this was for you guys but how it feels on the other side so give us a little window into what suffering even sarcastically meant well I always joke that Dave Ramsey ruined my life yeah there's a whole there's a whole internet channel on that

but the truth is I mean you're going to see your friends and they're going to be buying trucks and they're going to be drive driving side by sides down the road and and they're going to be having a lot of fun and there's going to be a time where you have to suck it up and you have to say I'm going to get some and I'm not I'm going to say no um

I I think for your normal working family you have to pay a price um if you just if you just wander through um you'll wander right into debt just like every all the Joneses and you'll be comparing yourself so I think there's just a time where you have to have discipline and you have to say hey this is hard but it's the be best thing for my future for my girls

you know for for the rest of my life and so that's where where your temporary Pleasures I think we um we had to put aside for a minute and we had to focus on our goal which took a long time took eight years so what's the dream now

42 and you guys are debt free house and

everything how does that change your vision well our first dream was to come to Nashville to check it off the Box baby there you're there one down yeah so next scream yeah I watched a lot of Deb

free screams and I always thought if we make it we're going yeah I like it I'm glad you're here yeah I'm so proud of yall it was good deal so what what is the next big thing yeah for me you know the next biggest thing is to set up my girls for um a success you know in a

just a better PL platform to build off of than I had I'm from a single wide trailer even though it's in California um and I just want better for them so for me the the future is trying to build for them and then us enjoying our lives a little bit more yeah absolutely and and really being an opportunity to give and and affect people in a better way yeah well congratulations

I guess Dave there's probably a nice truck in the future though I would hope I think he's he's earned it yeah maybe a side by side he's a millionaire 42 yeah me come on

come on pay cash for it get you a toy yeah that's good that yall should you should enjoy some of this and you should give some of it and you should use some of it for investing and uh building up the future and changing your family tree and you will so very very well done very proud of y'all what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is

I think that it's avoiding lifestyle creep that was something that I feel that we did really well over the8 years you know Nick had a lot of promotions and a lot of pay raises I had a few commission checks come in and they pretty much went all to the mortgage and that was hard

when you see other people it's unrewarding it's very unrewarding and it it's it's hard after a while and you just say oh I just want to do X YZ whatever it is and we just didn't we just kept saying no you know we want to pay a price to win and and over the course of the eight years we spent the first four years in baby steps one through five and you know 345 felt like

it took a really long time to get through we really just kind of crawled through those and those were you know hard slow years and then uh we paid off

180 in the last four years so it really

kind of picked up at the end and that's well your income changed during that time the income changed everything changed we were we were working together and the snowball really got going it was

it was really neat to see that way to go you guys congratulations thanks we did a

tracking process as well we kind of bought these hurricane lands and we put some smooth stones in them each Stone was $500 so at the end of the budget

meeting at the end of the month we would you know see how much we could put in towards it and we would bring the girls in and we'd each put a rock in and sometimes we only put two and sometimes we put 15 you know but it was it was something that we brought them in for and we would talk about you know why are we even doing

this and what is dead and why is this important and so bring them up let's introduce them what are their names and ages so I got two of them here oldest is is Sabrina youngest is Cassidy MH great hey we've got the living give box for you the baby steps millionaires book which is what you've done congratulations The Total Money Makeover book and a Financial Peace University membership for

you to either enjoy or give any of it just our way of saying thanks for you to come and people buy that and give that stuff away all the time so thank you guys so very proud of you Nick and Laura Sabrina and Cassidy

San Bernardino California 223,000 paid off in 99 months making 71

to 195 baby steps millionaires at 42 count

it down let's hear a debt free scream

are you ready 3 2 1 we're dead

free

yeah oh you got to love it man oh man

those little girls have a mom and daddy that changed their lives yeah well done that's grownup stuff there boys and girls this is the ramsy

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show [Music]

our scripture of the day Proverbs 12:15 the way of a fool is right in his own eyes but a wise man listens to advice

Tommy Lort says the only problem with success is that it does not teach you how to deal with failure Joe is with us

Joe is in Cincinnati hi Joe how are you

I am fantastic how can we help all right

I've got a question I've been pretty intently saving uh to buy a new Bronco

even selling my early Bronco and through my intensity and focus I've actually saved up enough to pay off my home and now I'm struggling do I continue on with my plan to buy my Bronco or pay off my

house wow that's cool those Broncos are cool so what do you make uh about 150 what's the Bronco

cost uh it's 56 okay and you can pay off

your house for a car guy you pay off your house for I've got a couple other ones yes you have a couple of other cars yeah I've got a an old classic from

my father-in-law and then a early Bronco that I've also had for about 35 years

that the value has increased on it also oh yeah those things are through the roof yeah that's fun

um

H well it's a simple question that you

have to answer for yourself I don't think anyone else can answer it for you what do you want more a new Bronco or a paid off house and um I'm the other side of all

of that um let me just tell you this too

it's not it's not a Permanent Choice

it's which one do you want first yeah

because if you buy the paid off Bronco then your next goal is you're going to pay off the house and you make good money and you're going to pay it off fairly quick right yes or if you pay off

the house if you pay off the house you don't have a house payment um and now we can save like crazy and buy a new

Bronco so I mean my guess is is that um

two years from today you've accomplished both goals agreed yes so just which one do you want

for the next two years because the other one's going to wait 18 months to two

years yeah I'm also struggling because I've drove junk for years uh and even a

free car to keep it going just so I can do something I'm struggling spending that much money thinking of spending that much money on a vehicle now it's always what I thought I wanted when it comes down to uh letting it go for that

I don't know uh you're not getting rid of the other two Classics right no okay

good I was got to say I love the old Bronco more than the new one but this is your money yeah oh I I wouldn't make the trade I'd keep those two and then abut add the new one to the mix the new one's a cool car it's it's a neat car um are

you driving something that you're not proud of right now is he's driving he's driving one of those Classics aren't you no right now I'm driving about a $8,000 car I upgraded last year from my freb junker uh so I upgraded uh in meantime to save up for Bronco I've just been able to save up sooner than I thought what's the uh what's the balance on your house exactly uh 72,000 and you have 56 in the Bronco

account or what uh just in my general savings uh we

actually have about uh I think 70 liquid

right now not counting our emergency fund what's in the emergency she fun uh

we keep about 20 in there and it's normally low but i' retire military so I've got a pension for good pension that comes in monthly

so I love the car I love the Bronco I

think they're cool cars I don't own one of them but I think they're a very cool car I can understand where you're coming from having said that I personally would wait 18 months to buy the new Bronco and I would pay off my house uh but the point is you're going to do both within 24 months and you need to have a game plan to do that it's just a matter of which one goes

first that's the only choice we're making we're not making a choice of Bronco versus house we're making a choice of which one comes first in the 24mth calendar and that helps me that helps me make the decision to do the house does that make sense yes and then then you're

going to feel a little wiser spending this much on on a car than you feel right now you feel like you're over doing it a little bit right now because that house is still dangling out there and if you do the house first and the Bronco second the Bronco is not going to come with as much guilt yeah and if if that older Bronco is pretty slick I'd get rid of the $8,000 car sell it drive

the sweet Bronco around if you want to upgrade you you've worked hard I get what he's saying he's like I've been driving crap for so long and now I kind of want to drive something nice but I'm with you that house is going up in value the Bronco he buys will not no no no it's not I know the old one did but you're not going to keep

this one 45 years it's not going to be that's correct the thing so and it's not uh 1,800 bucks which is what you paid for the other one right exactly right back in the day or whatever whatever it was I would be driving that old Bronco around if it were me I I it depends on you don't you don't want to mess it up you don't put miles yeah

I get it not a daily driver Joe's in Cincinnati Hey Joe what's up

oh that's it's wa a minute that's we went back to I just I screwed up yeah hi hi Joe thanks guys all right Brian is in

Los Angeles let's try that hey Brian how are you hello sir I'm doing great thank you for the time to be on here today I've been a big listener to you guys for a while now and because of you I got out of Deb a couple years ago but um like what my question today is uh I'm married I have two boys we live in Los Angeles County

and my question is uh we make a good income here and um however we're very unsatisfied with the quality of life here just the school values the crime the homelessness and all in all just the unchristian society so we're considering relocating to another state um such as either Tennessee or Idaho or a few others um the issue is that um our my projected

income would probably be cut close to being in half why what do you do so I'm a police officer in LA county

and with overtime uh I usually bring around 140 to 150 a year and the same

salary in those areas are are are a good

bit less maybe like 60% of that but you

you're at you're comparing overtime to no overtime also yep it's not half but it is in in your field it is substantially less yeah but it's also worth just kicking the tires in other states you know what would a an Atlanta metro situation that's not the greatest thing in the world but it's the cost of living would be less than La look at multiple States in a region to kind of see what your opportunities are how long

you been on the force uh that's another thing 12 years so does that qualify does that qualify you for moving into like a a highway patrol role in one of the states because those do pay a lot more than the state you're talking about I I would likely be able to go into any type of law enforcement field in any other state but just comparing it to California just

it truly is a significant not necessarily

how much on this and I'm going tell you why I covered this story recently the Fraternal Order of Police uh they are having a hard time recruiting police officers you understand why I don't need to get into that and there's a great opportunity right now for you with 12 years of experience in Los Angeles County I think you need to do more research and see what your opportunities for uh transfer would look like

and then growth and Dave makes a very good point may even some signing bonuses available yeah and moving into a State Police role uh in another region of the country could be really lucrative and that would not necessarily be a pay cut then yeah I mean you move into a Bureau of Investigation in one of the states like Tennessee TBI or something like that um

but I would get out that's the heart of his question I would get out if I felt the way that you set it up to Dave and I I would get out I think you're um moving but I think you've got

to do a little bit more work on the career side so that it isn't as big a cut as you perceive it to be correct because that what you're outlining at first blush is true I mean if you compare it to an outlying County or something like that in uh you know in in

a Texas or Tennessee or what Florida whatever you might you might uh you might see that big a cut but there's ways to get into a Metro situation there's ways to get into State situations and with your experience you

might move in move up several

um pay levels uh in one of those States

and actually come out fairly close and

there's overtime available everywhere in your world tell you what high school football games and church on Sunday morning everywhere everywhere police everywhere hey man we appreciate you stay safe out there that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus

Dave here you can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes

download the Ramsey Network app in your

favorite app store

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today

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## 177. The Ramsey Show (Previously Recorded 9-7-23)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:20:56 |

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[Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual and amazing

relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book paycheck to purpose and host of the Ken Coleman show he's my co-host today he talks about jobs and careers and money and well doing it in a way that you love it and so if you got questions about all that you jump in we'll talk about it and anything else you want to do we talk about you right in front of you and we make a living doing it phone number at 8825 5225 jump

in Marvin is going to start us off this hour in New York almany to be precise hey Marvin welcome to the Ramsey Show um hi Dave and Ken um privilege

um to be able to speaking with you um um um thank you very much um for all that you do well thank you how can we help um so so real brief um I'm 40 um um

my wife is 34 right so we've been married for 12 years and started a turf

grass Consulting business uh with the money that we received um from our

wedding right so we do work for um um

local mom and pop golf courses and

conduct um field trials for um plant

protectant manufacturers uh I was able to go full-time with the business in

2018 and she was able to go full-time in

2020 um in January thanks to you guys uh

we were able to become debt-free by

paying off our house um one of our clients will be selling their Golf Course soon uh so my

question for you is uh should we buy it

for $1.2 million well the first question is can Dave and I play for free it could affect our answer no

pressure Mar I'm kidding Mark Life Time membership yeah the uh it's going to cost you Marvin it's gonna cost you buddy this advice is going to be free today Dave yeah yeah so uh okay 1.2

million and so this thing is uh has a

net profit after all salaries are paid

including whatever the owner is paying himself to manage the course because it's a mom and pop um this thing is making um 300,000 a year uh uh no it's doing doing about one

150 to to a 200 net okay so why would

you pay 1.2 for that that's overpriced um yeah I I I

mean um you know I I I know what know

what know the golf course business fairly well the uh uh infrastructure in

the in the golf course business um

the the the uh the worth comes from the

assets right to meaning right to golf carts right maintenance equipment uh

things like that yeah no the worth doesn't come from that no those things only have a value to the extent they create a profit okay if all of those things created zero profit you would have what's known as a hobby okay not a business and so the

golf carts the infrastructure the quality of the turf the everything there the name the reputation in the community

uh the area of town it's in all of that

goes to create one thing profit and the way you calculate profit is net profit uh a a small business is worth a

maximum of five times net profit five times net profit yeah that's a 20 that's a 20% rate of return and you

know small business purchase is a very highrisk purchase and so you would want at least a 20% rate of return and that's

after that's if you're an absentee owner and so let's say I bought it for in Tennessee okay and I I had to hire a manager and I

had to hire every single staff member that was needed not you get to work over there for free or the a former owner gets to work over there for free and thereby increase the profits you follow

me real profits for an absentee investor

this is how you calculate the value of a small business transfer and uh it's called a cap rate process capitalization rate um the only other way you could

calculate the value is the what's called Book value which would be considerably less and that is if you took all if you bought it and you sold off all the assets you sold off the golf carts you sold off the real estate you sold off the uh you collected the receivables you paid the payables and that's Book value that should be less than four times five

times net profit it should be okay uh

but that's that's if you were going to disband the whole operation and it's worth more shut down than it is operationally then and I I doubt that's the case here because I got to tell you man I'm I don't know a ton about the golf business but there's kind of a joke in the investment world that the guy that makes the money on a golf course is

the second owner the guy that makes the money on a ski slope is the second owner because the first one usually goes bankrupt there's not much there's not much margin or spread in that world very low margins and so yeah just be careful

to not overpay for it if you're going to pay cash for it Marvin and you want to buy it it sounds like you know the golf business at least the side of it that you've been in but um I'm telling you the finances on this deal they don't sound that great um and if the guy goes

well real estate's worth a lot then he ought to just sell the real estate if the real estate's worth more than a million to then he ought to just sell the real estate put condos on it or whatever uh cuz I mean from a from a business transaction standpoint not a romantic view of grass and trees and

ponds The Real Estate is unquestionably

the most valuable part of this purchase a mom and pop Golf Course is a mom and pop Golf Course for a reason not knocking them I've played some awesome little munis in my life and they're great but this is a low margin business

and you probably don't have the clientele you look at how old your your average member or your average golfer is I'd be running all those things Beyond everything that Dave mentioned and unless this is a burning conviction and

you got the cash for it and you can handle it I'd run away from it unless

it's a real estate purchase only I mean it's just such a low margin business you're competing against in that area you're competing against higher end clubs that are charging much much more and you're just limited in your growth with a small golf course you're limited your Revenue growth is limited gotta love love the way Ken throws Around The Insider lingo I've played a lot of really good munis in my time I'm sorry a municip course

I should you're right that was inside baseball inside golf lingo it just means a local public course not a private course it's public anybody can play I've played a lot of really nice communis in my lifetime that was pretty good Ken I like the way you did that that you slipped that right in there is just added to your level of expertise it was an accident I grew

it wasn't no that's all I could afford to play my dad we that's all we could play were munis when I was growing up on a pastor's income when I think of munies I think of M municipal bonds mun bonds oh in the

golf world that just means a I know go track figured it out I've figured it out no it's not necessarily a goat track there are some nice there are there are some very nice ones yes I do know what goat track means it means horrible golf course yeah I do know I'll tell you a great one in uh Virginia Beach area Stumpy Lake there it's a great Municipal Golf Course great name Stumpy Lake yeah

bunch of tree stumps all over the lake well-known mun as of today this useless

information Froman R show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thanks for being with us America we appreciate you hanging out open phones at 8825 5225 our question of the day comes

from neighborly your hub for Home Services most American homes have dozens of appliances and chances are at any given time there's something wrong with at least one of them Mr Appliance a neighborly brand offers expert Appliance

service on your schedule visit neighbor.com today to find Home Service Experts including Mr Appliance in your area today's question comes from Neil in Wisconsin I'm wanting to get my degree in the financial industry what is the average starting salary for someone who is straight out of college and what would their position be how much room for promotion and growth is in this industry and how do I set myself up for Success uh Neil

I don't know off the top of my head what an average starting salary is because this is kind of a big ambiguous question the financial industry covers a lot of different specific TR you could be you could be everything from bank teller to CEO dude yeah so that's a pretty wide range but the second part of the question we can address um how much room for promotion

and growth is in this industry well again depending on the lane that you pick uh within the financial industry think of it as a track and field track there's six eight Lanes there multiple Lanes depends you can do very very well there's no question you could do high six figures and you could be a seven figure earner uh in the world of Finance I mean there's just no question about that that's everything from Wall Street to uh an investment professional that does very very well

so uh the sky the limit uh is the answer to this how do you set yourself up for Success uh that's the uh that's the answer the answer to that is is doesn't matter on the industry uh I think it is three parts you got to know your role on every level that you're at that's Clarity do I know what's expected of me the second thing is accept

the role win the now have an attitude of gratitude for where you are and bust it there is no next if you don't win the now and third maximize the role go above and beyond don't walk

around acting like you're the CEO but then work like you are like you own the place that's Know Your Role accept your role maximize your role that's Clarity attitude and effort I think if you do that on every level that you're at you're always going to be promotable yeah absolutely and and you know

bathe smile show up on time

smile uh don't don't be an entitled

twit and um these things will take you a long way I mean it's because really I mean in a world of um people who don't

do those basic things you you really do set yourself apart yeah it's just a big deal just show up on time you know and

um wow

so yeah so the the the the problem that

we're having answering the question is it's like saying I'm going to get a marketing degree what do marketing people make well there's about 8 80,000

different things marketing people do and the same thing is true with financial a finance degree I have a finance degree with a specialization in real estate um and because I wanted to be in the real estate business that was my goal I grew up in the real estate business that was the long-term thing but I've got all the financial goober classes under my belt now and so a thousand years ago I did and uh

um so you know now what are you going to do with that there's a lot of different thing you go like Ken said corporate position as a financial analyst um and

but Finance in general Finance and Accounting are really good uh

Baseline uh sets of knowledge to move

into companies and do very well uh for

instance there's two primary s sources for the CEO of major companies in America today almost all the CEOs and major companies in America today are either former CFOs uh or Finance people

accounting people uh Bean counters of some kind or another or they were the director of marketing and sales that's the primary two primary pools that CEOs come out of the people that bring in the revenue and the people that manage and operate the business well from a numers perspective have a higher likelihood of becoming CEOs uh

very few people come from the graphic arts department to become the CEO and

that's not the put down the graphic arts department it's just a statistical fact

and so you know you look at where that's taking you so uh but yeah it's a great

degree as a baseline of knowledge because in getting that degree it's a it's a basic Business Degree you're going to end up with good statistics under your belt good accounting under your belt you're going to end up with marketing classes under your belt and you know those are going to be those will be knowledge bases that you'll use wherever you land in business so all of that set

you up for a positive situation Carla is in Florida hey Carla welcome to the Ramsey Show hi thank you for having me so excited to be talking to you I watch you all the time on YouTube and I love your show we appreciate you being here how can we help so I have some questions I've been

plowing through my baby steps and especially paying off

like credit cards good for and I I don't have anything saved up in

retirement I'm a nurse I've been a nurse for 25 years I make 138,000 plus a year uh my home is paid off my biggest

expens is my car which I owe 23,000 on

and my interest rate is

4.4% so I first I'm going through these

baby steps but I was paying off cards

yesterday so I paid off six cut them up

way to go threw away all the papers so that I wouldn't be tempted to call them back for a new C and now I ran into the next one that I

wanted to pay off and they said if I pay

it off see this one has an annual

fee and they said if I paid it off it was going to ding my credit and that you know just keep the card and pay the annual fee but I was like well how much

is that going to ding my credit and does that matter because that's the next card

to pay off I have five more to pay off so wait minute let me get this straight a credit card company told you it's not a good idea to get rid of a credit card

right no they said keep it

open gonna hurt my credit if I closed it

yeah of course they did yeah well it is

it's going to it is going to damage your credit score so the question is this where is it we're trying to get to is is

a credit score your goal or is money your goal um retirement is my goal yeah

having and by the way I've had people try to boil the credit score you can't eat it

it's worthless you know what a credit score is good for there's only one thing a credit score is good for you know what it is get more credit borrowing more money

going into debt which is kind of the opposite of having money for retirement it's the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish right now so if your goal is to get rid of your debt so that you have some money who cares about your credit score yeah and you know I I you drove

right that you didn't even get

it yes how old are you I am 60 you are killing it with

138,000 girl I'm proud of you very good

yeah let's get these CS chopped up and get rid of this car payment start piling up some money so five or six years from now you've got $250 $300,000 set

aside and quit screwing around credit card company if I can if I can pay all

my cards off within the next two months

and then then knock out that $23,000 car loan in a year and then oh you can do it faster than that you make 130 you ain't got anything else to do this is important well I I do help my

mom and my daughter out well to the ex how much do you give

them um I pay my mother's car

insurance and my daughter about 500

you're paying an 85y old's car ins Insurance yeah does that seem weird to

you that's scary to me but she's only

living on Social Security yeah I know so where's the 85y old driving to to church into the grocery store yeah

thought so this is pretty expensive trips so um you need to think through what where your money's going and get control of it and for sure we don't take advice from credit card companies on anything all we do to them is say bye-bye see you wouldn't want to be you

you are the cigarette of the financial World your credit card goobers we don't want anything to do with you this is the Ramsey [Music]

Show hey if you're in over your head with student loans and tired of getting calls from from collection agencies if private student loan debt is taking away your financial piece and you don't see any way out you need why refi they're

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[Music]

kid Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for for joining us America I'm Dave Ramsey your host open phones atle 88255 225 Ben is in New York hi Ben

welcome to the Ramsey Show Hi how are you doing great man what's up um I am currently living with my

parents I am 29 um I've been saving for

several years now and I'm trying to figure out if I am ready to uh buy a house and if I can afford to you know get my own place at this point okay how much do you have saved

uh 100K okay uh what keeps you from leaving

there and buying a house um well I was mostly just trying to reach a certain I was trying to reach that goal of 100 100K save okay you got 100K you got 100K I mean Common Sense tells me you could go buy a house in Albany with 100K you're 29 years old how much do you make uh about 70 75 cool all right I I I

would definitely do it like this

week you think you think that's a good idea because I I didn't want to rent was the thing I didn't want to be throwing out money you know dude impulsive is not on your list of things to do yeah we don't have to worry about you being impulsive you're 29 you live at home you're not impulsive okay time to go yes

go get you a house get you a life yeah for sure no I like it I love

it man so how much do you make again 70

what do you do 70 um I work in accounting okay you are risk averse aren't you man you're just hey um it's

time man go out in the sun see the

sunshine the uh the uh the you you are a numbers dude I love you I'm a nerd I'm a numbers nerd too man so I'm right there with you Ben you've been crunching numbers and crunching numbers and crunching numbers and the problem with those numbers nerds is and you're you're one I'm one so I'm owning it with you we can get paralysis of the analysis and you have A Bad Case sure get a house get a life go go

go do something go have some fun man go

you know and and tell your mama you love her and you'll see her in five months yeah I mean she going to be she going to be glad to get rid of you I promise I don't think she is actually well I think that's part of the problem he's an easy guy to live with he's not a problem he's not tell not like he's having parties in the basement or something we're seeing more and more of this and I'm not picking on Ben but I do want to say this

there's two things that are going on number one he's got the analysis paralysis situation yeah but he also along with the fear of change is how

comfortable he is at Mom's house and

that can just keep you when you because you can justify staying by using the numbers and I think it got to be realistic how much of this is I'm just afraid to kind of go out and start adulting that wasn't even a term 10 years ago and I hate saying it I'm a little embarrassed that I even uttered it yeah but I mean it's time for a

lot a great call back uh but yeah I I

just think we got too many young 20s somethings that are just terrified of change and we got to call that out let me just tell you when you're out there and on the wire and there's no net uh it is terrifying yeah it's also

exhilarating and it it it's also what makes you a man or makes you a woman my son yeah so yeah um I heyy

um you know yes Ben you should go buy a house and we're not picking on you but you did open the can of worms so we'll deal with it for a second um here's the thing moms and dads you're not doing uh

your kiddos favors when you leave them in the nest too long a eagle that stays

in the nest too long becomes known as a turkey and Ben I didn't just call you a turkey I'm talking about a concept here okay so Ben you're you're free from this we're we love you we're happy for you glad you got 100K you need to buy a house in the next month and you need to move immediately for your sake and it's

good it's good you know we're there but uh so our our oldest when she came out of school easy kid oh yeah Denise to

this day she's just a pleasant easy person and um and she moved back to

she's the only one of them that moved back to our house after college and uh she was waiting on a a roommate situation to develop so she could go get the the first rental property right uh and and um so she was living there for

about uh 2 months and we said okay

that's probably enough and she's like what I'm like you know you you got to you got to get this done because not because we don't like it she was not in our way she's like Ben she could have lived there and we would wouldn't have noticed she been there until she 29 we wouldn't have noticed but uh we're like no you you are missing out on life

when when you're 22 23 25 years old and you live in your mama's basement you're missing out on life y and so you need to go be somebody and um it breaks our heart because we love you we we like having you around but uh it's not about us it's about you and your development as a person your uh emotional your psychological your Spiritual Development your financial development

you become a different person when you buy your own eggs and pay your own light bill and fold your own clothes or don't but they're your clothes yeah and that it just changes there's a little thing happens there little different thing and again Ben for God's sakes we're not picking on you okay we're not you called up you're a nice young man we appreciate you none of

this is aimed at you but I'm just telling you folks moms and dads you are stunting their growth 100% reminds me of that movie with Matthew mccon Failure to Launch horrible movie I don't know I think great Matthew Matthew has done some really good work in his life and that is not on the list this is exciting folks Dave ramley with a strong opinion on a romcom

I I I never thought

I'd see the day I mean come if your co-star is Terry Bradshaw I'm just saying you're right the quality of the script writing was low I I'll give you that but but when Stacey wants to see it I say okay yeah well yeah there is that I'm blaming it on her yeah I would I'm blaming it on you but we're all right Joe is in Louisville Kentucky hi Joe what's up hi thanks for having me guys how are you better than we deserve how can we help good um so uh just quick background

last year I had uh I left the job that I was at for about 15 years uh since then

uh been struggling to uh you know find a

job uh to make what I need to make to pay the bills and I'm primarily using job boards and they just seem to not be going anywhere that's horrible yeah resources

out there I guess to what were you making um I was making about 130,000 a

year doing what it was commission so it kind of went up and down uh sales and uh management okay and why did you walk out the door without having anything to go to uh well they uh had a new ownership

come through and one of the first changes they made was pay uh for the the regional manager so I ended up um was on

Pace for about 70k after they uh took

over okay so they cut your pay in half and you said you said stick it okay I got that yeah all right so have you been

working have you beening yeah I have been working um currently making um right now about 55k

a year so do you know how to sell yes I I can sell what were you selling before when you're making 130 uh it's furniture wholesale or or customers I

mean or consumers I'm sorry yeah customer uh customer two customers so retail gotom okay wow I got to tell you

my mom uh sold Furniture was a manager of a large furniture chain for 35 years and if you can make that kind of money in Furniture those margins aren't that high uh you've got a lot of options in front of you right now a lot and you've got to stop job boarding and you've got to start start having coffee with people that you know Civic clubs churches you

know people and look you can sell anything you're not a guy who's stuck in an industry in other words you aren't just effective in the furniture industry you know a product you know a service not only can you sell it Joe but you let a team of people medical device sales you can make two and a quarter easy easy so with i' I've looked at some

medical like sales jobs I just feel like

um you know I I don't feel like it's you know I'm qualified I guess for it do you you just apply anyways there aren't

doctors making the sales there sales people making sales to doctors yeah I got a friend who's got who's a former college football player I'm not knocking football players he's advising Sur on Orthopedic devices in the operating room not cuz he's a genius because they trained him on the devices Dave's right you don't need anything other than a willingness to learn and basic intelligence and you have both of those in droves hey we're going to send

you kin's book from paycheck to purpose I want you to go on his website and learn his oh yeah oh no also we're going to send you proximity principle he other number one cuz that's that does that's what you do instead of job boards what it'll help you do what you're supposed to do yeah

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[Music]

[Music]

open phones at 8825 5225 Ken Coleman Ramsey personality

is my co-host Evan is in Indianapolis hi Evan how are you good how are you better than I deserve what's up um so I'm a young guy last couple

years um I'm I'm a numbers cruncher and

my numbers aren't crunching anymore I'm not able to build my savings and I not sure what to do with

it okay what do you make uh I make 2750 an hour okay and uh

so what is that about 70 a year

um it's more like 60 a year isn't it yeah yeah okay what do you do uh I'm an

a mechanic I work on Farm Equipment okay

all right and um how much debt do you

have uh about 117,000 on what uh 75 on my house I've got 27,000

in student loans and 16 on a car okay

all right are you single uh no getting ready to get married in a month what's she make uh she's part-time because we had a

this is where the whole two-year thing came in uh we had a kid two years ago um and she so she makes I think she

makes 15 an hour and she works 20 to 25

hours a

week okay all right well there's two

sides of the equ the income side and the outgo side and if we want to change the numbers we usually end up working on both so you're working 40 hours she's working 15 somebody going to be working more if we want more money or we're

going to be working differently meaning a new career if we want more money and

um and that the outgo side is a car

payment and a student loan payment when you get rid of those by tearing into them and making them the major priority a priority above all other things and get rid of them uh then you know you can get there but if you guys are making 100,000 between the two of you or 880,000 between the two of you you can work through a $116,000 car debt and a $227,000 student loan debt

you know in 18 24 months but you're going to be on beans and rice rice and beans you're going to be working overtime and you're going to sell so much stuff the dog thinks it's next are you budgeting uh I mean I kind of do I mean I don't have any no the answer I I don't have a yeah no okay yeah and I'm not that's not a setup question

but when somebody says I can't seem to get caught

up I can't seem to pile up savings we

have baby steps anyway so we want you $1,000 baby step one that's for emergencies then you're attacking this debt but you've got to know where your money is going and if you're not budgeting you're going to have a hard time getting traction whether you're in baby step one getting $1,000 baby step

two knocking not debt off baby step three saving up 3 to six months emergency fund if you're not budgeting you have a greater chance of spinning your wheels because you just simply don't know where the money's going so so when are you getting married uh October the 7th awesome hey

we're going to give you a wedding gift uh oh I'm going to put you and the bride through Financial Peace University both of you have to go if I give it to you for free do you promise yes I promise

nine lessons it also includes the world's best budgeting app every dollar the premium version which connects to your bank and I want you to jump in that immediately and start using it today I'm going to give it to you right now Austin's going to pick up and tie you into it but get on the every dollar app like Ken was saying because here's what we find research has shown across the

general population that when people start doing a written budget each month

they have a 10 to a 15% lift in their

money because there's that much in Lost in just disorganization and impulse spending uh we find it's actually more than that because the people we're dealing with are different than the general public the people we're dealing with are like you Evan they're sick and tired of being sick and tired and they're about ready to bust into something and so they lean in even harder on that budget and

they make every one of those dollars squeal they make every one of those dollars behave and that's why we even call the budget every dollar every dollar has an assignment and that's why the budgeting app is called that every dollar has a name every dollar has an assignment and so you're just going to get um U merciless on making the money that

the two of you have coming in behave and

squeeze every dime out of it increase your income decrease your outgo and then walk these baby steps and financial pce University will help you do that and uh certainly the every dollar budgeting app will help you do that so check those out we're going to give them to you free as a wedding gift and get you started because I've been right where you are Evan when people say Ken Ken caught that

beautifully because I used to say that too I can't seem to get and what that usually means is I haven't been able to out earn my disorganization I haven't been able to out earn my stupidity I haven't been able to out earn my impulse spending I haven't been able to out earn my lack of a plan and nobody can by the way and I used to think i' just go get more money cuz I'm an abundance guy

and I would go get more money and then I would screw it up you know and so you know you've got to make the money that you have behave and when you're managing

that well you become what's called a faithful Steward someone who is stewarding their money in a trustworthy Manner and God looks down and goes oh wait there's one in Indianapolis that gets it yeah ha who knew you know and uh

we might be able to let him manage some more that's right if he's managing what he has well y hello that's a basic biblical principle and last piece of encouragement Evan if you budget first dive into every dollar start to see where the money is you'll be more motivated to do extra work because as an a mechanic who can work on those big old machines that I don't even know how

they work right he can work on a lot of different engines he's got some transferable skills there's a lot of side work where you as a mechanic can make really good money but you're more motivated to do that when you go okay now I'm actually getting ahead mhm because I'm now disciplined and I have a plan yeah and where do I want to be in 10 years right

so now you're going okay I'll go bust it yeah and where do I want to be in my career in 10 years yeah that that's a plan this is how it works boys and girls beautiful hey Austin will pick up and get you signed up we'll get you taken care of Susan's in New York hey Susan welcome to the Ramsey Show Hi how are you better than

I deserve what's up I have a question um I'm currently in

a condo that I want to sell and I'm looking at either renting it out and then buying something new um or maybe selling it and kind of taking this like windfall as we want to call it that that's going on in real estate and pay off my debt and then also buy something new B either way I feel like I want to leave this condo but I'm afraid to let

it go because I have a good interest rate on it I'm like it's called a windfall you you nailed it oh You Gonna Take the Money and Run let it go let it

go oh my God how about that Dave you didn't see that coming no you're right that was on Key by I never see it coming again Jade did the exact same thing yesterday but it was a little better well Jade is a lot better than me let call so anyway yeah Susan we've been interrupted here by a solo that was uninvited made so the deal is this um we

yeah you don't want to keep the condo because you're becoming a landlord by default not by intent if you owned another house and you were debt free and you had a pile them you know and you wouldn't go borrow on that house house in order to buy a condo in the city you just wouldn't do it and effectively by not selling this it's the same thing as if you bought it you know in terms of a balance sheet or in terms of the decision-making Paradigm and so yeah you're much better

off to I can't even say it let it youed

you went there caught yourself yeah it's just I got to chill but yeah let it go

yeah that's what you need to do and

you're going to be hum that around the house tonight Sharon's going to be like what are you doing you're going to be like Coleman who are you what that's all you need to say she'll understand she'll Coleman's fault she'll understand so many things are but hey you've taught this for years the idea of being a a

distance or even or even local it creates headaches yeah just you know yes real estate's a good investment but very few people back into it you need to walk

into it with cash after you got the rest of your finances straightened out so sell it Susan sell it please that's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes and thank you for the call this is the Ramsey Show

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hey folks Ken Coleman here did you know the Ramsey show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world get your daily dose of advice on life and money check out all of our shows from the Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts [Music]

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us

Ken Coleman ramsy personality host of the Ken Coleman show and author of the number one bestselling book from paycheck to purpose is my co-host as we talk about your job your life your money your where your money comes from your work Ken is an expert in that area and he can help so jump in the phone number is 88255 225 Jim is with us in Vancouver hi

Jim welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave thanks for having me on sure what's up um I'm calling from just

outside Vancouver in British Columbia here and basically I was wondering if it

was smarter for me to buy a house or

start B start a business first and if

you would think buying a house would be smarter how would I go about that with today's like housing market buying a house in terms of to live in as your home or as a rental property it would be to live in as my own ideally with a sweet torrento but that might be further down the line okay are you single I'm single yeah what do you

make um I'm 20 and I still do live with

my parents but I currently make 35 bucks an hour what's the business you want to

start um it would be in the um equipment

services and Welding um industry MH okay

I I obviously you know how to uh do equipment services and Welding uh where are you going to get your customers uh so I got quite a few connections from past jobs at farms and

whatnot from when I was a bit younger so I would be able to get a lot of customers in the agricultural um type of work is that

business G to require go ahead go ahead well what I'm getting at is he said house or start business and so I'm wondering is there a lot of capital outlay like you're you gonna have to put a lot of money into this to launch this business idea um so I again I haven't really put

a whole lot of thought like I get I've put a lot of thought towards starting the business but I'm really tallied up the numbers because um I've just been

told that for buying a house if you're self-employed the bank doesn't look super highly on that rather than if you make a steady income at a place that's been around for a lot longer they're going to want to see two in America they're going to want to see two tax two years of tax returns I don't know what it is in British Columbia but two years of tax returns as a self-employed person proves

you make money other than that there's no problem at all being self-employed but uh but obviously you can't move in there with uh and again I do not know the mortgage process in uh

British Columbia I can't comment on that I'm ignorant about it so but you'd have to find that out but I think you're probably you know you're on the right track there with that issue um how much money do you have saved um so I currently have 35,000 in

my savings and then I got just under 30,000 invested okay good for you all right and

um you you are in the welding and uh equipment Services business now making $35 an hour that's correct okay and so are do

you have the ability to do side jobs in

the same industry without uh stepping on

your current employer customers or

stealing from them in any way yes that's that's the other thing that I said sorry my email earlier I never me your phone's breaking up I understand you try again um I do have the ability to work

on side jobs from home and also from the shop without getting in the way of my current career yeah without ethics problems with your current employer right exactly okay all right so what I

would do is uh I would not start my

business full-time I would start it part-time and and start doing some side gigs and I would go get me a rental prop

a place to rent and just you know move out of your parents house you're 20 years old um and I would not buy a house

right now I would just keep piling up cash you got plenty of time there's nothing to do with the housing market it's got to do with where you are and then I want you to build up that side gig build up that side gig to where you're making more with it than you are during your day job then you're ready to quit and run your job run your business full-time

the big deal here that you're going to discover Jim and I want you to discover this by actually doing it not not in theory not discussing it uh what

you're going to discover is is that doing the welding and being an excellent welder is a different skill set than running a business yeah you can be an excellent

technician and still run the business

poorly you could be you can run a business well and be a horrible technician people do that sometimes but uh what often happens is someone is a great chef and so they automatically

assume they need a restaurant well it's a completely different thing to run a restaurant than it is to be a chef the only thing that's in common is food that's the only thing I mean Chef is one skill operating a business is another skill and that that's what I'm seeing with you so I I think you're probably very good at what you do you sound very competent and confident and um so I would want you to

just build this up on the side what do you think yeah the only got to add to that is while you're doing the work on the side see there's no risk here you're not Allin you got a great job no conflict of interest and now I'm learning the business with zero risk and Dave's right there's a process of welding then there's I'm selling these parts and that's a whole different ball game

then I'm running my business and while I'm doing it on the side I'm learning by experience but I'm also going to sit with people who are winning in the industry I will tell you this Dave I think the most underrated question in the history of the world is

will you help me and will you help me in this case a young man who's 20 who approaches a guy maybe in his 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s and says hey I want to get into this business one day can I buy your lunch or coffee and will you just tell me what I need to know and you helping me is you just giving me some knowledge

and some wisdom and I have found that successful people are very willing to help that person who asked that question and shows up with a willingness to learn pad and paper notes on your phone I don't care how you do it and if you do that here's what happens now you get all this wisdom and knowledge from somebody who's been way out in front of you and

then you begin to apply it on the side and Dave's right that picks right back up where Dave's advice is at some point you're going to scale it to the point where you can walk away from the day job right into working for yourself but there's no risk here and patience is the key it's hard to be patient when you're 20 I mean crap it's hard for me to be patient at 49

but it's really hard to be patient when you're 20 but patience is what set you up for the Long Haul and I think that's the that's the only thing I'd add to what you said I thought the advice was fantastic so don't buy a house no move out don't start your business full-time start it part-time build it up build it up build it up build it up learn

the business skills and I'll send you a copy of our number one bestselling book entree leadership great which is how we show people what our Playbook has been on running a business how we grew the ramsy solutions business from a card table in my living room to now almost 1100 folks on the team and over 300 million a year in revenue and we'll show you how we did that

and so but that's the skill set it's a different set of skills than welding and you you got to be good at both to make this work this is the Ramsey Show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host thanks for being here America open phones atle 8825 5225 you jump in and we will talk Joe is

in Lake Charles Louisiana hi Joe welcome to the Ramsey Show yes sir thank you'all for taking my call sure what's up so my question today

is um an a couple at our church is

offering to owner finance their house to us and I'm just calling to see if that is going to be a smart play with my current situation okay um well we T you know we

can check your current situation so how much debt do you have um right now we're on baby step two

we still have about 40

42,000 um which ranges from

credit card car note what's your household income um 65 to 70,000 so when you plan

to do be done with a 42 um we're we're snowballing I mean by

two two and a half three years okay would be yeah that sounds reasonable um

we tell folks Joe not to buy a home while they're in debt okay because um you know Murphy

will move in your spare bedroom and the water heater will break the roof will leak and the heat and air will go out and you're broke cuz you're still in debt and then you got a real mess on your hands so what appears to be a blessing because of the timing is not going to be a blessing it would end up being a curse so I would tell

you to wait and that may mean that this couple sells the house to someone else and that's fine and you'll you know God will have something else for you there'll be another plan when you're ready and you have a good emergency fund and a good down payment and you have no debt and you move into a house in that situation the house can be a blessing not a curse

but when you move into a house broke you just get broker that's why they call them Brokers you know just it's a bad idea don't do it don't do it James is that ready yeah okay all right so uh they

sent me this thing God can this I don't know if you saw this or not I haven't seen this this is a little bit it's not exciting it's scary it's not okay it's scary so I mean we get scam stuff all

the time people using my name you know people using you know saying Dave Ramsey said do this Dave Ramsey said do that and it's like well of course St Ry didn't say to do that that's D he wouldn't do that that's and you know anybody that knows us know these things but then people that don't know us they think I'm endorsing you know bull craap so this one pops up

this one's scary because it's AI That's what I was going to ask you yeah so you going to play it play it this is on Instagram this is the dumbest thing I've seen and I don't know when total credit card debt surged to $1

1.03 trillion it marks the highest level

ever on record that part in the FED dating back all the way to 2003 um I

have about $166,000 worth worth of debt um it includes a car a credit card the medical debt from the birth of our son okay so what you need to do and this applies to my listeners at home who have debt is go apply for an economic recovery package today do you hear me yes sir fastest way is to settle it and pay pennies on the do for what

you owe and you can do that using a free service through the economic recovery program today thank you sir wow hey we love you you hold on a second Kelly's going to pick up okay the economic recovery package and pay pennies on the dollar and you of course you swipe down and you go to this website to buy their crap and

uh and obviously I mean I said AI when I

first heard it on my computer it was AI but when I heard it now just now in the studio that doesn't it's not even AI it's just a bad voice yeah he got one

phrase he got one little phrase that was close but to somebody who doesn't listen to you much and did a driveby on YouTube that's nasty that is really bad it was an Instagram thing so we of course we got the attorneys on it we get them shut down Instagram shut them down but uh then they pop back up as quick as you shut them down because it's you know it's scam everywh qu yeah it's they're everywhere but I I they just you know

you don't notice but it would changed from these earbuds in our ears to the microphone with in front of our face exactly and uh and then the thing in front of your face it makes it look like I'm saying it and uh and then closes out with with me actually closing the call out of course you know the ultimate deception bookend it with actual real stuff from

you it's very you know that that freaks me out all all fraudulently and in violation of copyright by the way too but yeah wow wow so no we do not

endorse the economic Recovery Act which doesn't even exist which by the way yeah what a joke

does not exist there's no such thing economic recovery and so and you can settle your debts for pennies on the dollar yeah you can do that but what this is is one of these scam uh debt consolidation places yes and they're getting you into a debt consolidation process and oh my go but that part was brilliant because that's the kind of foess that we hear from DC they say things like economic Recovery Act and we all go oh they're here to help yeah economic yeah yeah you're right that

that's that's troubling though it's trouble Ronald Reagan had a famous quote he said the most scary words in the English language are I'm from the government and I'm here to help yeah that's exactly right amen and amen the

economic Recovery Act and just just what does that even mean yeah it's not even an act by the way oh it is an act but it's not that kind of an act yeah wow wow crazy stuff if you're going to try to rip your voice off practice a little better than that come on man sound like I was from California not enough Tennessee in that no twang in that Doug is in Grand Rapids

hey Doug what's up hey Dave and Ken how are you guys doing today better than we deserve what's up hey excellent I'm glad I'm speaking to you guys I've been listening to the show for about six years now and it's a little bit embarrassing to state that my wife and I are not completely out of debt yet because we're what I like to say and I hear you say on the show all the time we're sort of Ramsey is um we did successfully pay off

$888,000 of student loans in 2021 that's

good um huge weight lifted off the shoulders and with all the student loan speak going on right now it's amazing to not have to deal with that um but my question today has to do with Roth IRAs because we still have $62,000 in debt um

on three line items two of them are cars

and one is a camper um how much do you owe in a camper camper we owe

24,000 okay so onethird of this is a camper okay yep and the other 40 or

8,000 is broken into how many what kind of car how much we have a 27 on the

Tahoe and nine or almost 10,000 on an

edge okay all right so you have a car and a camper problem okay yep um now

what's your household income we bring in Gross about 160 a year so we're only at about 41% of our annual income we a little bit below the 50% that you teach okay and so and you want to pull out your WTH well the question is because I've actually listened to the show for six years and I've never heard this question so I may have a good one um

and I know you teach not to pull from retirement because of the penalties and taxes associated with doing that but in our case we each my wife and I each have a Roth IRA in my name I have a Roth of

$110,000 um and she's got 5,000 in her

name and my question was about the cash equivalent because it's obviously after tax absolutely not this is not a Roth

problem or tax problem or a penalty problem this is a Doug problem mhm Doug

really Behavior you make 160 Grand and

you owe money on a camper yeah come on well we do and you want to cash out your freaking retirement for a

camper no we also rent that out through

no yeah no Dave I'm in the camper

investment business bu no you're not yeah you know better than that dude

what's it worth do you have any idea it doesn't matter it doesn't matter it's gone yeah that's what I'm getting it's gone it's depreciating either you pay these cars and these campers off in the next 18 months out of your cash flow and you guys quit being is or you know the

the cuz here's the problem you keep treating the symptom and you know when you take this money out of retirement and start with this not enough to do spit there not enough money in there but if if you did take it out you keep treating the symptom and the symptom is the debt the

problem is the dug the douie okay so so you got to got

you guys are going to have to quit being is that's what we're saying you're going to have to get on a decent plan get on get on every dollar you and your wife sit down and go okay we knocked out 88,000 now we look kind of foolish sitting here with these debts making 160 Grand we make too much money to be this freaking broke you have no money in retirement Doug I mean you have $5,000

that's pitiful it's pitiful and you make

$160,000 a year come on man this is the

Ramsey

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions we have a thing called the debt-free stage we also have an a viewing area where you can come in get free homemade chocolate chip cookies and coffee come by and visit us if you're in town from boisey Idaho or something like that so we got a group of uh ladies sitting here on the front row

we just met them at the break from boisey so uh hey people come from All Over America and visit Nashville and sometimes we're one of the places they stop and see we do the show on the glass from 1 to 4

every day central time and if you come and watch uh you'll agree that it's pretty much like watching ugly paint drive but there you go so hey I don't resemble that he hey watch out what's happening hey but also we have the debt free stage in that Lobby and that's where Mike and Lindsay are hey guys how are you hi do good welcome where do you guys live St Louis Missouri there we go awesome and how much debt have you paid off uh 360,000 yo how long did that take

about 32 months good for you and your

range of income during that time uh

120,000 to 350,000 okay in three years you double your over double your income we did almost triple it y wow what do youall do for a living uh I am a internal medicine

doctor ah there we go and I work in the financial services industry well that's vague enough good okay all right excellent so now you yeah so that's a way to double or triple your income the two of you excellent very good so uh

goodness what kind of debt was the 360 uh mostly student loans about 346,000

with student loans and the rest says the dock yeah the rest was an investment loan and a car loan okay wow very cool how long you been on med school uh about

well out a medical school no I mean out out of residency and everything about three years about three years so about this time yeah so you got out and you said let's knock it out correct game on yep all right so what how did you get connected to this ramsy stuff what made y'all do this yeah so um we were

probably Dave is I had heard about the Dave Ramsey Show before Lindsay and I got married which was six years ago and we were on our honeymoon and uh being the financial guy I was uh listening to

the Dave Ramsey Show podcast wow uh and then Lindsay uh being like I think she was reading a book and she said what are you doing what are you listening to and it was uh the Dave Ramsey show we listened to the podcast um and that's how we got first connected and then uh my family gifted us uh FPU for Christmas

as well okay and so then when she comes out of med school no question how what we're gonna do correct we're GNA knock this out pop done done done done very

good Lindsay I gotta ask you as the doctor in your world did you share the

process the journey as you were doing it and if you did uh what did you find the reaction was and and I'm just curious how many other people that are in your shoes to doctors that are actually even thinking about getting after it the way you all did uh yeah I mean we talk pretty openly about it um and honestly

most of the people are not doing what we did uh a lot of the people are doing Public service loan forgiveness um or they just kind of are on the you know 10 20e plan they'll eventually pay it off you know they make enough money um they want like the big expensive house or the fancy car and all that stuff doc iish correct did they look at you treat you like incredulously

like what do you think no never that type of situation just more so could tell that they didn't necessarily agree with it like that would be nothing that they would ever do yeah yeah but look at you yeah look at you I'm completely free 32 months that's

routy wow that is very cool what do you

tell people the key to getting out of debt is because you're successful at it um I would say my key is uh the budget and then also we we always had like really short-term goals but then also having the longer term goals we were always having goals that we wanted to get done within like you know a month or two and then also what's our goal 5 to 10 years from now like what do

we want life to look like so that's really what kept me going yeah I I would say like consistency so like we knew how much money was going towards debt and we set that goal from the beginning and just kept on going um and also um you guys

have heard the phrase or used the phrase dream dates um that was that was huge

for us like keep us motivated keep us going um look to the Future uh and what

Legacy we want to leave behind yeah you got to have a vision for your life correct and uh when you have a shared dream then that's the living like no one else so that later we get to live and give like no one else and that you got to have that later you know in sight in high definition and be able to tell what's really going on with

it way to go you guys way to go I'm curious I I I know if don't know if I've ever asked anybody this question but you're a financial guy and you're in that world and so you're Pro probably academically trained like I was uh the same way uh

because there's probably uh I don't know

two or 300 podcasts and radio shows on

money out there why why what what was it

that a financial guy goes well this is okay I can listen to this yeah I think for me it was honestly before for getting married to Lindsay I didn't know debt or have

debt um and I knew he just threw you under the bus I brought all the debt backed over I did have an investment Loan in a small car Lo but uh but I think the biggest thing is we

uh knew before marriage that we wanted to tackle the debt and with Co and no

interest we wanted to get it out of our lives for good I mean why this why why were you listening to this show Dave it's because of your personality oh my

God uh you and I scoot over so his head

can fit in here hold on you and

I uh no I just really liked uh the principles the baby steps uh now we're on four five and sixense clear path the clear path made sense yeah okay that that I'll buy way to go you guys we're very proud of you congratulations and uh also you've had a baby yes all right and brought you brought him with you right we did he's four now no longer a baby yeah that's right wow very cool very cool

so six years married four-year-old and 32 months a after med school boom this is gone hey we got a copy of the uh baby

steps millionaires book for you in the live and give box and the B The Total Money Makeover book and a Financial Peace University membership probably got all those already but you can give them away and find somebody who wants them and so what's the four-year-old's name Christopher all right Christopher here we go man ready your mom and dad have changed your life buddy you don't even know how much yet you have a family tree that has been changed by by two Heroes right here $360,000 paid off in32 months making 120

to 350 Mike Lindsay and Christopher from

St Louis count it down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're Deb

[Applause]

yeah that is how it's done you got to

love it so Ken there is an antidote to

the student loan crisis and uh we just

observed it yeah there human beings taking responsibility because the private student loan forgiveness as she said some of these docs are counting on has a 1.6% success rate 98.4% of the people that apply for that do not get it that's all of them so these docs have screwed up by

betting to their their Futures on the

private student loan forgiveness public student loan forgiveness act it's it doesn't work it's another time your government has lied to you and so we're

going to be having this coming Tuesday night Jade washaw Rachel Cruz me are going to be doing a free live stream for a couple hundred thousand of you that are going to be viewing it's at 700 p.m.

central Time this coming Tuesday night

student loan debt in America how we got here and how we're going to get out we're going to show you some real solutions this is ramsy Solutions that's

what we're here for and we're not here for something that's going to if if you looking for easy I I don't I can't help you with easy if you're looking for microwaving quick I can't help you with that we sell crockpots baby 32 months

they've been scratching and clawing those folk 32 months they went through Financial Peace University they listened to the podcast they've read the books 32

months of nothing and now they're free

$360,000 in debt

wow yeah go to ramsy solutions.com studentloans and sign up for Tuesday night this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today Joe's with us in Houston

Texas hi Joe how are you pretty good uh

so my question today Dave and uh Ken is

uh I work for an automation supplier

company for the oil and gas industry I've been here for almost a year my responsibilities increased uh a lot more than I thought they would and I would like to bring up uh getting a raise to uh to my

leadership and stuff like that and kind of wanted to know about how to go about doing that how much have you got a number in your mind a percentage that you've done some research on or is this just a hunch and a feeling uh so so I'm I'm definitely

making less than what I was previously

what the job I left in you know uh where

we were maintenancing the solutions that

were uh being sold by by different

companies and now I'm designing and implementing those uh so I took a pay cut to come to this job for more freedoms more responsibilities and chances to grow and the number I've got is about 12 to 15% is what you want as a

raise yes and you've been there a year have you had an annual review or is that process in place uh so I had a six-month

review and everything was everything with that was was gold stars and from

what I was told so when did The increased responsibilities get put on you give me a timeline at the six month Mark and and you were told this it like hey here's what we're doing you're doing a great job gold stars now we're gonna add this this this and this is that how it went yes did you bring up okay hey I glad for

the review uh is there an increase in comp what's that look like how am I measured did you bring that up at the time so I brought that up at the time and the company I worked for is growing and uh so they were like okay we're going to push off your raise until so then I asked for a 6% they said we're going to push it off till October well

then the responsibilities that was It was supposed to increase it's gone beyond that in the in the six months because we're we're developing a new a new department for for our branch and I've been kind of given that okay and that's now between I make 825 okay

and so you're asking for like 10 grand yeah okay all right and they're

supposed to review it in October anyway so just a few weeks yes yes sir okay all

right I'd Hold the Line I'd hold the line on the number if and again Dave I I want you in the the own it's it's all The Narrative of how you couch it okay so just the the best way to do a a lot of these things especially in business is just trade shoes for a minute MH okay if you're the leader you're the owner you're the manager of that's making these decisions okay how would you want

to be uh addressed how would you want this conversation to sound and and I'm an owner of a company I'll tell you how I want it to sound um I'm happy to talk to anybody about their comp uh I'm happy for them to talk to leadership here anytime about their comp uh and and you

know here's the thing you're not entitled to anything you earn it and you have said you're earning it but I mean I had one guy come in my office Joe a few years ago and he's like well I've got this degree and that degree the poor guy had more degrees than a thermometer and he he said you know people that have degrees like me at other places

you know they make uh $50,000 more a year than I'm paying and I said yeah then you're you're paying me I said I understand that but we don't pay for degrees here this is a small business honey your raise is effective when you are okay and so that's what the owner is looking for your raise is effective when you are you've made the case to me listening to

you that you've been effective and you've gotten the increased responsibility and you're stepping up and you're taking emotional ownership of these areas and so you're a valuable team member is what it sounds like to me and so but the way you want to couch it if you're on the other side of the desk is how Joe I mean think about it you want to say uh not

I deserve more money simply go I think I'm

adding a lot of value do you think I'm adding a lot of value if I'm adding value I need to ask you how do I go

about talking to you guys in a proper way without sounding ungrateful because I'm very grateful I love this place I love the opportunity I love the growth I love the added responsibility um and I

you know what's the right way if you're me to ask you guys about compensation and I I I'd really like to make more and what do I need to is there anything I'm not doing doing that I'm that I'm do you know is there anything I can add or is there do I need to do something different to qualify for some increased compensation and if somebody says to me how can

I what can I do to make myself more valuable so you want to give me more money that's an easy that's an easy thing for me as an owner I can do that one okay I can go okay because you know like I had a guy one time he was working on a deal and he brought in an extra million dollars that really happened that blew my mind

he he did he added this thing to a deal he was doing negotiating a deal for us and he added this thing a and so and his commission structure did not pay him on that million dollars but you know what we paid him anyway you know why cuz I want him to do that again I got you okay CU he added value

you see what I'm talking about so a lot of value in that case that's a big number but the the thing is here I I think you say I am I I think I'm adding value am I adding value and and if I'm not adding enough what do I need to be doing to qualify for increased compensation because I really want to be one of your best team members

and I also want to make some good money and tell me how to do that man yeah I agree with that however I would also add to this Joe they promised you a 6% I I I would

ignore that because I think he's due I think he's doe a lot more than six% a joke in this yeah maybe he needs he needs he needs got to have some Marketplace research like if somebody comes to us and says yeah but he's he's in a startup and they're they're adding stuff they're adding new products they're adding new projects and things to his plate left and right left

and right he and he's making 80 already he's he's worth another 10 I think he is but he's got to make that case and I'm just pointing out that he's going in asking for 12 to 15 they've asked six he needs to show Market ranges I wouldn't asked for 1215 I would I ask open-ended question okay cuz he was saying he we had talked about six back in

the summer I feel like I'm doing all these things what have I got to do yeah oh I I always

say that too and you know that kind of thing and and then if they come back at six you go okay I need to know what I got to do to get double that cuz I kind

of thought I was in that zone and apparently I'm not so they've added responsibilities so if you talk to me that way and you don't you don't start trying to but let me soon as somebody starts playing hard ball with us at Ramsey on uh raay negotiation right we

just go you know it's probably not going to work out here right cuz we're not going you know you're going to negotiate come on I mean ask how you can help and if you kill it and drag it in here we'll share it with you baby yeah I mean it's not we're not greedy but but you know just I show up every day and breathe and so

I get money that's not what Joe's doing right but if you if you're out there and you think well I just show up every day and I'm you know actually took a shower daily and I expect a raise I

mean come on man there's no just shower daily Rays that's there's not one of those so uh you know it's crazy what's

out there and the way people think about this stuff so you know here's the thing if you want to be an extremely valuable team member always be asking what you how you can add value how I can lift the

place not what I can take from it so if

we're interviewing someone and the first two sentences all they want to know is what they get then we're done with the interview cuz they're there to take they're not there to add they're going to work a j o

work as little as possible come in late leave early and steal while they're there and so you want to present that the exact opposite of that scenario age when you're uh interviewing or when you're negotiating so to speak for a raise but it's not negotiating it's asking leading questions yes and also being informed in what you're asking we had a guy come in the other day in in one of our technology rol is a very unusual Niche role

but he said I got a I got a recruiter coming at me offering me X more and he goes I don't want to leave it's crazy amount of money he goes what should I do and and that's a way to approach it not like if you don't match this guy I'm out of here right cuz we'd be going see you wouldn't want to be you you know that's right

and um but but if he comes in and goes that you know what we we were not able to match it but he wanted to stay we were able to respond to his situation and make him feel good about staying by giving him a great raise yeah and it was it was an unscheduled raise hello so that's okay all that's fine but this is a how you

the attitude you approach it are you a giver or are you a taker are you a parasite or are you someone

that's adding to the whole process and if you're adding to the process and the people don't respect that with your in your wallet you probably need to look for another place Joe I think you got a good situation and you're a good guy this is going to work out for you this is the Ramsey Show hey it's Ken if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey

we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the ramsy way go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramseys solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

[Music]

[Music] Newsletter live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships thanks for joining us America Ken Coleman Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book paycheck to purpose is my co-host he hosts also the Ken Coleman show on Series XM as a podcast here on the Ramsey networks and uh very

popular answering your questions about jobs and work and career and uh you can

find him every day doing that and of course be sure and check in with us here today he'll help you too the phone number8 825-5222

everything extra towards the house I could pay it off in six years which sounds great but my parents prioritize paying off their house before retirement so now they don't really have retirement okay how old are you I'm 33

Okay so if you did that you'd be 39

years old exactly so mathematically you would not be your parents because you definitely could save a lot for retirement if you had no house payment between now and retirement between between 39 and 65 right that's a

good point okay so your parents your parents the fear that came from your parent situation is not valid in your case however I'm still not going to tell you to do that but I just think it's good to work out the math for a second now um so you're out of debt everything

but the house right correct and you have

an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses set aside correct right I have 15,000 good okay

then you're at what we call baby step four baby step four is say 15% of your

income no more into retirement if you

have no payments but a house payment 15% of your income going into retirement should leave you some money in your budget and about 500 if I do that what's

your household income 77,000 pre-tax post tax it ends

it being about 57 and how much is your house payment it is let's see I wrote that down where did I go um

1,330 okay how are you paying off your house in six years if you save nothing I don't hear that in these numbers I have an extra 1,300 each month

Oh I thought you said you had an extra 500 each month that would be if I put into retirement oh I see so if you put 800 into retirement you'd have 500 to go towards the car okay and so what's your current car worth um roughly 6,000 because it's a

what do what do you want to spend on the next car I'm gonna need to spend at least 10 maybe 15 if I buy used which is the plan okay so if you buy 15 and your current one's worth six you need nine right and that takes uh what see

see it takes not even a year well it takes no it takes a little over it takes about 14 15 months to save that up at 5 a month right exactly okay so 14 or 15

months you got your car upgrade meanwhile you're putting 15% of your income in and then we'll start paying extra on the house I'd only have 500 extra to go towards the hosit if I would I know but you have you've also you've extrapolated out into the distant future no raises that's true too yeah so it's a miss so the reality is that you're gonna pay off the house probably in six or seven years while putting 15% away while

replacing this car with a decent thing everything you've described to me is very sane you are not a cray cray

American you're not out of control thank you I mean really you you're you're very levelheaded I mean you I I was a bit afraid you were going to say $35,000 car and I was going to have a small cow right here on the radio Okay so no Mom

Mom rais Mom and Dad rais distance yeah from that I'm telling you so you you really have your your your your feet on

the ground in a beautiful way you got a lot of common sense kiddo so you're going to be fine yeah so the thing is this you're going to accomplish everything the the way we ran out the case studies and the way we've talked to literally millions of people that we've made into millionaires is that this idea if you're putting 15% away don't put more than that but don't put less than that you're going to end up a multi-millionaire with that alone

and you're going to get the house paid off on average and your number numbers are not different than that uh you know under 10 years it might be seven it might be 6.5 and it depends on the curve on your raise as well how quick you how much your raise goes up and I'm curious what do you do for a living yeah I want to know this yeah

I work in marketing for a small company I'm just wondering Alex if you aren't thinking about the gig economy freelance marketing after hours

to speed up this buy a new car fund I

would really be considering that if you have the margin in your life with your skill set in today's Marketplace uh freelance work as a marketer that's what I would be doing to get the car paid for what kind of marketing you're doing for this small company um like mostly website design

Flyers social media helping them write content what I

love doing is like talking with engineers and then getting them to speak in English instead of geek that's a full-time job uh it's also

extremely valuable you're a translator in a digital economy um the uh so let me sometimes and you

tell me if I'm wrong but sometimes when someone says I'm a marketer at a small

company the small company part of the phrase is code for I feel like I'm not being paid what I could make somewhere else yeah they're very fair but no that

wasn't what I asked did you say that accidentally in that statement yeah like you make 70 but you

think if you moved over Yonder you might make 90 yeah I'd be thinking about that

yeah yep and freelance I can't say that

enough yeah and and lots of freelance stuff on the side because if you can do digital translation from the digital humans to the non-digital humans you have a skill how would you start tracking down freelance things well you got looked at Fiverr but it's so many International people that it's hard to find a gig no not intern you just start looking in your area uh you're just getting on

the Internet you're talking to people there there is a lot of freelance work there's a couple sites I don't want to endorse them because I haven't done a ton of research on them other companies like your company that cannot afford a full-time marketer yeah uh would buy it would would pay for some side gig uh contractor work to get the same exact same work done in that situation um

because we have a lot of folks inside of our building that do what you do they're they're digital translators I never called them that before for today but they that's what they do and so you get on a squad with the digital teams and then you have to learn to speak their language and then we also have to learn that the consumer you know what's the consumer facing

after we write this code what's it look like how's it sound how's it feel and that kind of stuff so yeah that's exactly what you're doing and that's a I'm telling you that's a very valuable skill in the marketplace right now I think you're worth more than you're getting paid probably you need to think about that you're an amazing it's fun to talk to you you're amazing very well done very well done you're going to be very wealthy

you don't have have to worry if you keep keep using the brain the way you're using your brain right now you're going to be very wealthy your your decision making skills your thought Paradigm is excellent this is the ramsy show

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Ken Coleman Ram personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us America we're so glad you're here open phones at 8825 5225 hey guys um we can use your help if

you want to help us out it doesn't cost you a thing if you will click subscribe

or follow or whatever it is on your

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just let you know just sign up it changes the algorithm moves the show up in the rankings and causes other people to know we're here it's a free way you can say thank you to us and uh so click

follow click that and use the share button and if there's not a share button just share tell people tell people or take take clip click a link out and go okay hey I saw this you guys got to start watching the show you got you won't believe it you got to start listening to the show you won't believe it and uh cuz it's absolutely phenomenal

how many of you are there thank you

uh the number of minutes being downloaded is just astronomical uh on the different uh versions it's absolutely crazy and we appreciate you thank you very much leave the five star review you know all those kinds of things really help change the algorithm of whether these different Services push the show to the front and and make it as a suggestion or not so thank you Austin is in Milwaukee hi

Austin welcome to the ramsy show hi thanks for taking my call it's a pleasure speaking with you sure what's up uh so I'll try to make it quick here but I have a two-part question that kind of revolves around my career that I was hoping to get some answers or maybe suggestions on what I could do as I've been listening to you for quite some time now

and ever since I've been trying to do everything right um but I seem to back myself in a corner here with uh work and any further work uh to Major my

income growth um and I'm so I'm 23 years

old and I'm truck driving for a career I'm a regional over the road uh trucker

so not uh Coast to Coast or anything I make about 62k base gross pay but after

all my overtime I gross roughly around 85k a year which is uh 5K a month after

taxes and uh rough 401K contributions I

have no debt although I'm looking to make more money only because I feel like I'm meant to do more and I love my career in company I work for so switching companies isn't something I'm really looking to do even though certain companies out there I could get starting at 105k a year by trading more of my

time for money and staying on the road longer which I know is a big battle between making money and taking your time the only problem with being a trucker though is that I'm restricted on how much I can work uh with a side gig

if I would or more so a side job and as legally you're only allowed to work 14 hours a day and a Max of 70 hours a week

but between each 70h hour work week you

need to be resting for 34 hours with no

pay even if it's a non-driving job um

and so the only solution I would have to

think about getting is

a under the rug pay uh cash pay job and

or do I just accept a fate and make an extra 20K by switching companies while

looking to try to make more yeah so what's more important to you is it is it staying in the the driving position you really love it and then having this time that you have now or is making more money what's more important because you gave us the whole scenario but it comes down to what is the biggest priority for you yeah I mean I you know it it's it's

funny because I do enjoy my free time but there's most weekends that uh I'm

either not doing something and I'm just sitting there kind of uh not having

anything to do and then I feel like I could be doing more well you can't be so here's what I understand so forgive my ignorance is this the regulation of the company saying hey it's Federal Regulation it's a Federal Regulation you're not allowed to drive so he so you can't yeah but he can't did I understand that you can't work you can't do anything any outside work and rece receive uh income because if it's reported it's outside the Federal Regulation is that what I'm understanding I could during the week

but I'm not home during the week except for one or two I got all right I'm going that direction okay so legally we can do something it's just during the week so what is how many hours do you have on a regular week where you're not behind the wheel of a car uh typically it's about well you got

48 during the weekends cuz we get off weekends and then it's typically uh about 12 to 20 throughout

the week all right so 12 to 20 hours is

what you can work with to do something else because you said I feel like I'm supposed to do more so we have to first look at what inventory of time you have

to do other work now we've got 12 to 20 hours so now you start getting into well what is it that I would do if I wasn't in the truck what would this different type of work I believe you've got those ideas I don't think a guy like you calls and doesn't have an idea to so what would you do if you weren't limited to the truck this other idea of work doing something more what is it well I've I guess I've always uh had

a had a not I I don't know if you call it a dream but I've always uh wanted to start my own business as I've had a really good idea with it and I could spend what's the business um uh it would be well make a business uh with protein bars um because I actually am a bodybuilder and that's one struggle I found with a nut allergy is there is not

a single protein bar on the market that uh doesn't contain nuts or at least manufactured in the same facility so let's make this big dream let's bring it way down for a second let's play with this 12 to 20 hours that's just if you

were actually working for somebody but you've got a whole lot more time to be able to to look into what would it look like like to put together a prototype

bar that doesn't have the nuts in it or whatever it is that you've got figured out you can figure out who's making these things how many different companies Across the Nation are putting together protein bars just like a manufacturer in any other business and now I start to research and I figured out and I I figure out what it's going to cost me who would make it can

I just sample it you've got all this time even behind the wheel of a truck to be listening to maybe podcasts about how to come up with a strategy to launch something like this there are people that do this kind of stuff it's free so you become an expert in what it would take to launch a protein bar that's it

we start there because if this is the dream then we're not going to just launch into the protein bar business there's a whole lot of work so you're using all this time to become an expert in what needs to happen then we look at the finance piece what's that going to cost and so now you've got a plan here's what I would have to do here's how much it's going to cost cost

so now you begin to save that money and you go slow you don't risk a lot of money you try it you test it this is a process so I would be

putting that desire to play in very

practical ways as I just describe and then over time you might see yourself going all right I got to take a different trucking job to make more money to come up with an extra 20,000 to put into my first protein bar and I've already got several local stores that are willing to carry it I don't have a ton of inventory which means I don't have a ton of risk

and I began to put it out there and I see does this bar go somewhere maybe you look into it enough where you go you know what I'm going to transition from the truck to actually working for a protein supplement company because I can do that I can work for them is this entrepreneurial or is it an

actual professional path all of that will become clear if you take your time and use all that extra hours and energy to dive into what is it going to take to do this thing and that's that's how I do it yeah you're the way you're describing

your situation is that uh there's only

two options doing what you're doing or

not doing what you're doing and um

because you're you're looking at it as an All or Nothing instead of an incremental by degree change and so what

I do is pan back and say okay I'm 23 when I'm 33 what do I want to be doing

what are then the then what must be true that's not true today for me to be able to do that a and then you start making okay there's 32 steps to get there over the next 10

year over the next 10 years we'll start taking those 32 steps and that's what Kim was describing the first steps of the 32 steps but you just Begin by degrees moving in the right direction a little bit at a time and that method of thinking will uh cause you to be able to move forward versus I I I'm stuck you're

not stuck you can do the little steps in the right direction right now that's what is describing for you this is the Ramsey Show

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[Applause] [Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thanks for joining us in the lobby of ramsy Solutions on the debt free stage Joe and Emily are with us hey

guys how are you doing great doing good good where do you guys live uh just outside Madison Wisconsin

in a town called barbou wow very cool welcome to Nashville and how much debt have you paid off

$2,108 way to go and how long did this take 14 and a half months good for you

and your range of income during that time we started out at about 170 and we

finished up at about 200 excellent cool

what do you'all do for a living I am the guy that everybody curses when they try to get into those plastic packaging uh you're the plastic packaging guy I'm the plastic packaging guy I'm that guy oh okay are you talking

like when you get like a a box in the mail and you can't even get it open with an xacto knife yep that's that level that's me I really do curse

you I felt so good love it what do you do Emily I am a

Quality Systems engineer all right very cool well you guys are doing well congratulations what kind of debt was a

72,000 it was a mix between credit cards

we had an ATV um a HELOC loan that we did use for

some uh Home Improvements and uh a

school pledge for our church and finally a land loan so during the height of covid we went and purchased about 11 acres of course you did sure yeah I mean we'd been looking for land for quite a while and we just couldn't find anything that we really really liked and then this one just happened to pop up it's like nope this is it we just knew it in our bones

this was it so what happened 14 and a half months ago that changed everything cuz you guys were kind of normal you're just buying stuff on credit right and then you looked up and went this sucks we're not doing this what happened well actually the story goes back a little further um today is

actually our sixth wedding anniversary oh congratulations and uh prior to us

getting married I was a single mom living paycheck to paycheck and had over $70,000 in student loans m

um when Joe and I got married um he

basically took a look at me and said uh

can we do the best we possibly can to live on one income essentially and um

basically everything that I was bringing in throw it at TH those student loans MH

and uh we got married um long story

short um struggled a lot with contentment during that time um realizing that you know we were we did have a good income but trying to live on

that one paycheck and um I switched jobs in

2021 um and the great resignation kind of turned

into I don't know I was kind of looking at the great regret yeah and um just

trying to get through each day at work I was listening to music music uh streaming music to get through my day and one day I just happened to think you know I'll turn a podcast on instead um and I I call it that God

thing that must have happened I just happened to turn on the ramsy show which I wasn't very familiar with and I it

that's my best promotional item by the way it just so happened that I was

listening to an episode one day and it was Ken Coleman and Dave

Ramsey and um you were talking about uh

that very thing that I was living with about changing jobs and feeling like

basically you had wrecked your career by making that change and I was really

really in a dark place at that time really really hurting and um listening

to what the two of you were saying about

um you know basically being a slave to the lender

and as soon as you get your debts paid

off you can go do and explore what

you're really passionate about yeah and

um I didn't know what the baby steps were at that point but I heard something about an FPU class and I I knew I needed

to get that career assessment first of all because I I didn't know what I I didn't know I if I was doing the right thing or the wrong thing at that point I just I just needed needed some guidance

and so I wanted the that career assessment I I needed to uh get out of

debt so you go home and tell Joe all this and Jo's like okay awesome this is

what this is what I've been saying yeah this is what I've been saying she had a great big but now what happened was what happened was Emily you got a reason to

do it all of the sudden the reason was escaping the crappy job and the toxic environment right so I got to get this cleaned up so I don't have to come into work I don't have to do this yeah it changes everything very cool yeah it's a great why you got to have a big old why if you're going to do stuff you have to have a reason to do

it so all right let's fast forward yeah so you're on board right and and so you guys go let's get after this when you got into it was there a Moment In the Journey where you hit that big momentum where you really you both saw the Finish Line we can do

this I think so I mean even when we first started it was like Wow money we we got money that we didn't know we had MH you know I'm not a budget guy I'm not a guy that goes out just spends just to spend but I'm not no no I don't I really

don't but I like I like you know tools and stuff like that and if it's something I can use around the house I have no problem going on buying it but so I wasn't crazy with it but going down and doing the budget and sitting down every month and we do this fast there's money here yeah it was like pulling teeth to get me to do it

but once I started seeing the money showing up out of nowhere I was like wow where did all this come so the budget reveals and there's the momentum cuz you now have we can actually nail this yeah that's great there's a light at the end of the tunnel that's not an oncoming train yeah and then it became fun because it was wow we we're watching these numbers just click off yeah

I get like boom boom boom boom boom boom boom here we go here we go here we go what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is I've been telling people look into your resources um as as far as side hustles

we had our little side hustles that we did but we also found other resources um

we have friends that have a hobby farm

and we were able to assist them on that farm and it cut our grocery budget

significantly because we were able to get the fresh fruits fresh vegetables from the farm smart and um what Joe is

really good at canning and

preserving Mr package Pro here yeah y I

love it I love it way to go you guys how

does it feel it's amazing to be free for the first time in six years and really more than that it's it's amazing um we

had a family medical emergency just a couple uh months ago with a family member and to be able to step back and say you know what we can do what we need to at this moment and not have to worry about um the money side of it was was

such a relief that's a big deal that's a big deal way to go you guys we're proud of you Heroes you're amazing man I just

they're kind of a little bit like floating they're not quite touching the ground pretty good that's pretty neat it's pry cool very cool and you brought your daughter with you right what's her name and age uh Reagan she's 13 all

right way to go all right so Reagan's whole life has been changed too this is pretty amazing hey we've got the live and give box for you it's the baby steps millionaires book The Total Money Makeover book and the Financial Peace University membership Give It Away use it however you want to do it it's our way of saying thank you and our way of saying congratulations well done very well done Joe Emily and Reagan Madison Wisconsin area 72,000 paid off in 14 12 months making

170 to 200 count it down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're death free

yeah this is how it's done I love it man

what cool people this is the ramsy show

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our scripture of the day Philippians 3:13 and 14 one thing I do forgetting

what is behind and straining toward what is ahead I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus

Benjamin Franklin said the Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness you have to catch it yourself

boy is that relevant today man that's a

mouthful that's a mic drop I gotta love

it mic drop by old Ben Jeremy's With Us Jeremy is in Tucson Arizona hi Jeremy welcome to the Ramy show thank you thank you for taking my call sure how can we help uh so quick question my son

youngest son got himself stuck into a whole life policy and of course I want to talk him out of it get him to invest in something

else so I know the biggest Hook is he

can borrow against his policy I know that with the 401K you'll

get penalized which leads me to maybe mutual funds which I don't know a whole lot about MH so I was wondering what's the major difference between the 401K and the mutual fund that he may be

able to borrow against in the

future okay um how old is your son he's

23 okay all right

um well I I don't think

um I mean number one let's just let's just ask the question why is he going to listen to you well I've had really good really good

relationship with him and the whole reason he got himself stuck in here was because I kept pushing for uh to invest

to save money to think about his

future but but then he picked a bad way of doing it right and when you say son this is a dumb way of doing it it's not a good investment program what does he say oh I can borrow against it that's

his big hook yes okay well no one ever got rich borrowing their Investments right they invest them and they forget them completely against it yeah borrowing against it is not is not a method of wealth building that's a method of selling Insurance crappy insurance but it's not

a method of wealth building right and that's what got him in he was actually looking for health and disability and death insurance is where is where he started looking and then they hooked on the whole life policy yeah so I mean my

my point is is that we can answer your question a 401k is not an investment it

is how an investment is treated for taxes typically inside of a 401k you're

going to find mutual funds so you have a mutual fund that's either covered with a coat keeping it warm from taxes and the

coat is called a 401k or an IRA or a Roth IRA or it has no coat and it's out in the cold and has taxed but in both

cases it's still a mutual fund could be the exact same mutual fund and um but

wealthy people don't build their investments in order to borrow against

them and so if he wants to become wealthy he's picked a really bad way of

doing it number one borrowing against it number two he's picked the probably one of the worst Financial products alive today p and is the whole life policy

because it has a horrible rate of return in the first three years that you pay 20x 20 times more for the same amount of life insurance so you buy a $100,000 whole life policy you buy $100,000 Term Policy if the $100,000 whole life if

policy is $100 a month the hund the

$100,000 Term Policy $5 a month that's

what research tells us so it's 20 times

more expensive $95 extra per

100 okay now where does that go it goes

into an investment called cash value and so you and the cash value has no buildup for the first two to three years they keep 100% of your investment as

commissions the first three years you have zeros on your cash value buildup the first three years well that sucks and once you get past having a really front-loaded horrible commission off the front end and it finally starts making money the average whole life policy according to research averages 1.2% rate

of return not going to get rich on that either oh and then when you finally get past all of that if you actually build it up you can borrow and pay them

interest to use your money so if you have a savings account

and you want to borrow and you want to take money out of your savings account you you don't have to pay money you just take money out of your savings account but with a whole life policy you want to take money out you have to pay them interest to use your money that you paid 20 times more to build up this thing

sucks oh and it's even worse than that you finally build up inside your whole $100,000 policy $220,000 worth of cash value and then you screw around and die which we all do oh guess what happens to your 20,000 that you paid $95 extra per month to build up after

getting p horrible rates of return and no and no Comm and no buildup at all for the first three years cuz they kept it all as a commission once you finally get 20,000 in there and you die they pay $100,000 they keep your savings account so if you had a savings account at the bank and and or if I started pitching you a savings account on Tik Tok

and I said hey here's your savings account the first three years you put money in nothing happens we keep it all after that it makes 1.2% and when you die you lose your money no one would put money in that that's a whole life policy so nobody ought to put money in a whole life policy so you can just play this rant back for your son Jeremy

when it comes out on the podcast and it'll answer his it's perfect it's exactly what I would do and I'm not even I mean that's exactly son watch this yeah this is just don't do it don't do it you got son of Jeremy you have been screwed by the life insurance industry and they are very good at their business of screwing people it's unbelievable horrible product let me tell

you if you're poor the way they get you is the

pawn shops the way they get you is the rent to own the way they get you is the payday lender the way they get you as lottery tickets if you're middle class

the way they get you is they make you believe you're going to get rich on airline miles using your stupid credit card well that's a dumb butt idea the way they get you is they get you into a whole life policy that's a dumb butt idea the way they get you is they go sophisticated rich people lease their cars no they don't no they don't it's a dumb butt middle class thing to do so the whole life policy is the is the payday lender

of the middle class it's a signal that you intend to be in the middle class to stay there the rest of your life cuz you got screwed by the insurance companies and I got to tell you man if you don't like that and you sell whole life you need to actually learn how your product works and then if you have integrity you'll quit selling that crap because there's only two types of people that sell whole life

the ones that don't understand it and the ones that are Crooks because if you understand that crap and you sell it you by definition or a crook because anybody

that would sell someone an investment that the insurance company keeps their money that they put in there upon death and call that a good deal is a crook

that's just bull okay it's just absolute scam stuff it just pisses me off and

I'll tell you what that I whole life I thought it had just about gone away and freaking Tick Tock has revived whole

life Tick Tock of all things yeah I mean

PE listen people if your social media sounds like a Tic Tac you you know

there's only one thing you should listen to on Tik Tok and that's stuff we put out but other than that it's awful it's a Barren landscape of morons that's great it's crazy absolute nuts oh God and the whole

life stuff is all over it like they just invented it yesterday yeah it's the oldest Financial product ma'am the financial planning Comm Community completely abandoned this garbage 35

years ago no one sells whole life life insurance except life insurance agents no one in the financial planning Community believes in it we've all been looking at it going You' got to be kidding for decades

and now that stuff comes back on Tic Tac it's unbelievable wow I got a new idea out of this rant a new sponsor blood pressure medicine for Dave when he goes off on whole life this is fantastic can't stand those people it's unbelievable I think you made that abundantly clear that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus

hey it's Ken if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramsy solutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation again that's ramsy solutions.com and click get started

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## 178. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar cart rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money the ken coleman show is all about your career all about getting in a job and in a career field that you love doing work that matters that you're good at and where you can actually show up

and be glad for the time you spend at work and the way to maximize it so you've got career questions i need a job questions well ken is here to help with that and he's going to comment on everything we do here today as well so we're uh welcoming you in the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five so can this from forbes car shoppers on limited budgets can't get a break

the average transaction price for a new vehicle is expected to rise to a record 38 255 dollars in may according to jd power

sending many consumers looking for bargains on used car lots no such luck the combination of high demand and high wholesale prices dealers pay to acquire

inventory has led to record high prices for used cars toby russell co-ceo at

onlineusedvehiclemarketplaceshift.com told forbes the surge in used vehicle demand is causing bizarre bizarre behavior in the

form of used car prices appreciating

given the strong demand for consumers the tight supply situation that seems likely that used vehicle prices already at all time highs will continue to rise there's a silver lining for those looking to trade in their current vehicles vehicles demand such as pickup trucks crossovers suvs are bringing top dollar and the amount paid on a site right now is increasing 15 to 20 percent in some cases 30 percent over

the last year for the same used car first time in history used cars have gone up in value well they haven't over a period of a year but that same exact vehicle all caused by the covet economic disruption yep uh people in factories not making cars that's right also i read about people not in factories making cars that's right well i also saw that be because travel was literally almost suspended that rental car companies are a big source of used cars as well

because they'll order cars from manufacturers they'll rent them to folks like us and then after a certain point they'll sell them back and that becomes a part of the used car inventory as well so you have two things manufacturing as a whole also orders from carmel companies so it's really fascinating but i will tell you this i'm in the market uh i can't even believe i'm saying

this dave my oldest is going to be 16 in november so i'm already beginning to look just to see is there something right now that i could jump on and get it get a great deal put it in the garage and for him and so i've been looking a lot just uh direct to consumer uh

facebook marketplace is a great option there there's all kinds of auto trader and so outside the dealer i still see in fact i spent a good time this weekend a good amount of time looking there still are great deals if you're buying directly from someone else but to the dealers there's no question the prices are up i see that yeah and so the other thing that's happened was um i bought a used car last week and i bought it at market it didn't pay it was not up um took a little work

though yeah and i actually looked at the new version of that car and uh there's such a shortage on it that dealers are charging 20 000 over sticker for that particular car and uh now it's an expensive car but they're they're adding a premium on it on a on a new car because they they gave me a quote on the new one and i'm like uh dude

i buy it invoice and the guy's like not today you don't right and not right now you don't he goes there across town this same brand is selling these for twenty thousand over sticker he said well i'll tell you a sticker and i went i think we're gonna go used so i bought a used car and so uh but it's uh

uh man i mean it the this disruption

and it's just like the new housing like the new housing market is screwed up

and so it's screwing up the used housing market and then people go cray-cray and they get the chasing stuff and get the fever and it's like oh god oh god i'm not gonna be able to get what i want it's like a little kid on the cereal aisle having a hissy fit and then they over pay for stuff and so um yeah i used vehicles uh

there's a shortage and um definitely and there's a shortage for uh uh the new because there's a shortage on new because the factories were not dialed up and it's gonna take a little while for it to catch up it looks like it's going to take a little while for lumber supply demand to catch up right now lumber's selling for more than gold it's unbelievable it's true and drywall i've talked to a builder friend of mine brought sheets of drywall to explode everything plywood

the glue going into plywood there's a shortage on they're saying it's going to go up 4x before it comes back down but it'll come back down and these used cars will as well yeah so plenty but the good news is if you're out there and you like just decided i'm going to get out of debt and you're like i've got to get rid of

this really stinking overpriced i bought too much car yeah you know i got a 30 000 car you know 28 000 or oh 32 000 on

it this is a great time it really is it really is a great time to move down in car uh it's a great time to get rid of a car yeah that you that you're trapped in so that's the good news i'm curious to know what the trading values how much it's gone up because traditionally that's way way lower than what you can get if you sell

it yourself yeah demands you know the other parts of this article which i didn't read uh but the man mannheim is the largest wholesaler the auction houses that wholesale to the dealers and um they're seeing across the board about a 10 to a 15 bump wow and uh

so that's that's and then of course that's of a used car going across the

dealer auction dealer puts that back on his lot and um you know they're not in the business to lose money so they're gonna be marking it up that much so we're seeing this uh the the i i knew there were gonna be shortages because of covid we talked about that at this time last year because these factories all just shut down and it took them forever to come back um and you knew there were

going to be shortages but what i didn't for some reason i didn't i was dumb i should have been obvious i did not see the price increases as a result because it creates a shortage and drives prices up simple supply demand curve stuff and you know you get into that and uh but you're right the um the uh rental car companies hertz it owns dollar that sponsors

the dollar car rental studio so we've had discussions with them i didn't realize until we were sponsoring them and we were actually talking to them at this time last year because no one's renting cars and so they're all screwed they're all going into bankruptcy they're all you know right on the teetering on the edge and what they did was they just sold off half of their inventory liquidated

these used cars like crazy they dumped them on the market well now the market's gone the other way and now they can't get the new cars and so it's gone back the other way so they a lot of rental car companies have a shortage of inventory to rent to you

oh we see that all the time it's not unusual very normal it really is interesting and hertz is the third largest car dealer in america massive yeah that's amazing well you know it's like you said dave it's like we had all this extra supply but we burned through it and now the factories are trying to catch back up so it's going to be this way for a while i created a new uh thing as you were talking msrp now it's iii it is what it is

you like that so don't buy a new car anyways we don't tell you to buy a new car unless you unless you've got it and then some but now it's the time to stay away yeah yeah just just here's a plan not right now yeah i don't i don't need it that bad don't need it that bad this is the ramsay show

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ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book the proximity principle is my co-host today as we talk about your life and your money the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five joel is in dallas hi joel how are you

dave i'm doing great sir uh good afternoon to you and ken i want to say thank you so much for uh what you guys do every day it's important to a lot of folks out here that are trying to better their lives and figure stuff out so thank you well thank you sir how can we help today so here's my question we're

on baby step four and um we i've got a 401k question the company that i work for does a very generous uh match

every year it's a profit sharing it's not actually a match and it can range between 10 and 15 of my total salary not sure what it's going to be every year it's not set in stone kind of fluctuates right now we are putting 15 into the 401k the traditional 401k every year

and have been for the last three or four years so we're looking good but my question is this do i need to be according to the baby steps do i need to be putting that much in given what my company is also contributing and then second part is do i need to be looking at adding the 401k roth option in as well

in addition to or separate well if you

change your 401k will either be traditional or it will be roth and it's better for it to be roth and so i would change it to roth from this point forward now the matching portion that they give you cannot be roth it will be traditional by law okay the matching portion does not affect our baby step four baby step four is you put in 15 of your income

if you get gravy on the biscuit extra gravy on the biscuit caught a match that's just that much more wealth you'll have but i don't depend on them at all

the point of the baby steps is you are controlling your destiny and so you put in 15 if they match if you have a match you certainly take that match and so matches better than roth is better than traditional that's the order of attack the rock paper scissors so to speak and um so yeah switch it to a roth and

you put in 15 which it sounds like you are and you just continue to do that can so the in the old days the um like when i first started this show 30 years ago uh still at that time a lot of companies had the traditional pension plans now 78 of companies have done away with pension plans they don't have them anymore and so it's pretty much a roth or a 401k or an ira you're going to do your own thing

and you're going to do it through your company and the that's the bad news the

good news is a lot of them match over 70 percent of companies do match because they don't do the pensions anymore yeah why did they pull that was it did it come down to taxes for companies or is it too much to manage why the shift from i didn't know that number i wrote it down because that was that was really shocking to me that that many companies aren't doing pension plans why would

they do away with them well they're super expensive they're super regulated to manage pain in the blood to operate right uh and because can you think about it i mean you have a team member that joins you at 40 at uh 60 they retire and you now manage this pension for them for the next 25 years yeah it's too much time and money and so it just becomes very cumbersome

and with regulations on them they didn't perform they don't perform that well they're not allowed to invest the way that i would invest or the way i teach people to invest so they don't make it they don't make a good rate of return and so uh but it's bad for the individual because now you the only way you have money in your 401k is you have to put money in

the 401k it's good for the individual though because the 401k is yours yep and the pension is not if the company goes broke it's an asset of theirs you could lose the you know the old story the mind the mind closed up papa lost his pension that's right you know and so because the the pension was not his it was an asset on the books of

the mining company that went broke and so they lost it now that doesn't happen as much but with the regulations and the insurance and stuff we've got now but the union mismanaged the pension and frittered it away you know these are real stories that have happened to real people when it's a 401k the company goes broke it doesn't touch your 401k because it's not in their name it's in your name

you know accessing it with a broke company with the hr department closed down maybe a bit of a cumbersome thing but the money is still there it didn't leave and so you you are controlling your own destiny you're responsible for it and that's both a blessing and a curse that's right because look just like it is when everything that we're responsible for we have to actually step up

and man up woman up and get her done miranda is with us in charleston west virginia hey miranda how are you great how are you doing better than i deserve how can we help so my husband and i were working on um baby step two we're going to zell intense and we're trying to we're looking at our numbers trying to figure out how to get our payments to go down um

we have a car it's a ford cmax a 2004

and kelley blue book has offered us ten thousand dollars and we owe 21 000 on it and that loan

right now has a 5.9 interest rate good lord

yeah so what is this car really worth

is kelly blue look shooting you that low are you financing negative equity from the last deal into this one um no uh we owed 21 000 on it and

they're offering us 10 000. i know what they're all i heard that part that's ridiculous so i'm guessing the car is worth 15 and they're trying to steal it from you probably um it's in pretty good condition it's 2004. it's elec it's a hybrid

did you finance negative equity were you in the hole when you wrote trade it in yes okay so some of this hole is from the other car okay so you need to do some more research and find out what the car is really worth because uh if a wholesaler kelly i didn't even know kelly blue would bought cars but if they do i'm sure they do and um

if i host they're buying it at wholesale because they're going to resell it for a profit which means that you put it on the market we're just talking about that coming into the show you're going to put the thing on the market for full value so check kellybluebook.com not counting this and just look up of the value do an appraisal on the car you can go to edmunds.com as well it means car guide and pull up and say private sale if i

put the thing on facebook marketplace or neighborhood marketplace or whatever these things are that are out there and you know uh craigslist and people still do that and so on uh i don't know is craig dead he could be dead but um uh but anyway that that's uh um

you know so along along those lines you going to sell the thing trader i know trader.com you can use and i sell it direct like ken's out there looking for a car for his son he talked about that a minute ago and so yeah you're going to probably find that car's worth 13 15 something like that it's probably not worth 10.

10 sounds insanely yeah yeah i'd have to know the mileage on that but you can get a really good value on that very easily multiple sites and you could you could really hone in on the condition of the car and i think you get the most as you possibly can for that because right now as we said an opening segment people are your car is competing against

the dealers who are selling used cars at a premium so if you sell it actually at market value you're going to be very competitive a lot more attractive than there's a shortage so yeah definitely definitely make sure you have your values right so miranda a good rule of thumb is this in a negotiation which selling a car is a negotiation buying a car's negotiation he with the most information

wins he with the most patience wins and he or she with the most options wins

i don't need to sell i got lots of options i don't have to sell it i'm not desperate okay so you got walk away power you find out every detail about what every car like that at every site is selling for and you become a dead gum expert on the used car market around that particular car information he with the most information and then you just slow your butt down

you don't get the fever people get emotionally like like they have people when they sell stuff they just they get emotionally like it's already gone in their minds and so now they have to give it away no no just just plan on keeping it a while and be a little hard to get along with when you're selling it you know come on now maximize this asset you need

the money you're broke this is the ramsay show

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so

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show i'm dave ramsey mikel is with us in seattle hi michelle how are you i'm good how are you guys better than i deserve what's up well um i have a

question that i i feel like is probably splitting here but i wanted to know what you would advise we currently have a 20-year fixed-rate mortgage and i'm wondering if we should finance down to a 15.

not for that reason only if you get a better interest rate because if you take a 20 and you calculate what the 15 payment is and you just pay that much extra it'll pay off magically in 15.

sure so you don't have to refinance to do that so what is the interest rate currently

it's 375 and i talked to churchill and

they said they could get it down to 275.

okay what's your loan balance uh 235. okay so one percent saving is

and 2350 bucks a year right

and if it costs you five thousand dollars to refinance you get your money back in two years if it costs you seven thousand dollars refinance you get your money back in three years so you don't make any money until you get your money back okay so are you going to be in the house a while yeah for a long time we planned okay all right i probably would refinance it and while you're at it put it on a 15.

but you don't need to re if let's say you had a 2-7 let's say you had a three percent 20-year mortgage i would tell you just sit on it and pay extra

okay you don't need to go to the refinance cost to pay it off early you just pay extra and it'll pay off early but you refinance you refinance if you can save not sending them as much money as you used to do you know as you used to send them and so um you know there's gonna send them 2 350 less per year for the next many many years until you pay the thing off one percent savings per year yeah so i'm refinancing that if you're staying and while you're at it do it to a 15.

charlie's in los angeles hi charlie welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thank you so much for taking my call really appreciate it what's up i am a small business owner out in california and it's been luckily a

pretty rapidly growing company over the past six years and i'm dealing with an employee of mine who is my general manager i think has a bit of a spending addiction which is making me kind of wonder if i need to do all the ideas from a raise or if it's best just to let him go when that time comes if i can give you a bit of a background on

this gentleman he's in his mid-30s three kids works full-time for me 80 hours a week he's a great asset to the company and he's in this management position for just over a year 80 hours a week

um 40 hours a week my apologies oh i'm on the bike yeah sorry 40 hours a week okay um now the issue is that he left my

company before when he was a warehouse packer he came back and he worked up to his management role but since then he has about a hundred and fifty thousand dollars i estimate conservatively in cars and like automotive toys um he kind of

mentions and complains about money and stuff but not really in like a i'm expecting a raise type thing i try to give him raises organically without him asking to award good work what's he made he did kind of he makes 45k a year okay and he just kind of casually in conversation asked me if he could start leaving earlier monday through friday to come in a bit on saturdays so that he could work a second job and just because he has left the company previously i just kind of wonder you know i'm not going to plan on letting him go but if he does ultimately say that he wants to leave should i try to keep him around or focus on my younger staff who are who have their potential and don't have as much how many times how many team members do you have total right now we have 15.

yeah the question i have for you charlie is forget the finance issues

is this guy a great leader for you or at least a good leader with tremendous potential let's set aside just for a moment your concerns about his spending and him asking around about a raise is he a quality team member that you think if he's healthy you could develop him even further up so the thing about my small company is that it's all been a learning experience kind of for all of us

he didn't really have any managerial experience but he's been doing a great job of learning but what i really value about him more than anything else is that he cares about my company treats it like it's his own and i feel like does genuinely want to see the company do well well i got to tell you that right there to me is one of the greatest characteristics of somebody that

they care deeply about your company and so he's he's unhealthy financially and uh i

i would sit down with him and have a man-to-man but come at it not from a judgmental standpoint to say hey here's what's going on i don't have all the facts here's what i think i know help me

fill in the blanks and here's why i'm bringing this up i care about you because you care about this company you've done a great job you've learned and you've grown and you're mentioning some things here and there why do you need more money here's what a a development plan might look like and here's how you'll keep getting raises and share a vision for him and see where he's at financially

and see if you can help him and pour into him and take care listen i'd get him financial peace i'd put him through it and coach him up if he's willing to do that show him how if he gets his spending habits under control how it will change his entire life you know i'd be willing to have that conversation if i were you because of what you just said about

this guy i think he's worth investing in now i think you got to have a point where you get to where you say all right i've invested and i've coached and and and

now it's up to him and if you feel like it's too big of a divide he's not going to get there and you feel like he can no longer be the employee that you need then you move on but i wouldn't try to anticipate him leaving i think that's managing and leading out of fear versus being proactive so when we're were doing entree leadership when we were doing entree leadership a couple weeks ago out in dallas um [Music] pat lencioni said

there is no such thing as uh any kind of leadership except servant leadership and so if you're going to lead him then you need to care enough to serve him and how are you serving him uh you got to sit down and go dude forty five thousand dollar income hundred fifty thousand dollars in toys you're doing vouchy math here this doesn't work okay you can't this doesn't work

you know you're not in congress you have to stop this for your sake you can't win doing this and i love you and i'm and so i'm just trying i'm just looking at you man to man friend to friend and going i'm going to serve you well and so you know i've had and our leadership team have had conversations with people inside of our organization over the years almost on a weekly basis someone

we sit down with and say listen i love you too much to just not tell you this you got it you got to know this is this right here is killing you this is hurting you and and so because here's the thing you're serving him then what you got to do is you got to go okay if he has a lack of judgment over there how long

before that lack of judgment regardless of how much he cares enters into our organization if his critical thinking skills have got him this far in debt i mean he's going to start making stupid butt decisions at work too and so we got to get him off the stupid butt train and get him on the train where he can learn and that's just loving the guy well that's serving him

when i serve my children and they're growing up it means i teach them how to behave and function in society it doesn't mean the inmates run the asylum uh because i love my kids enough to serve i'm going to serve you i'm going to make sure you know how to drive a dadgum car before i give you the keys i'm going to make sure you know how to behave

and say yes ma'am and yes sir and thank you and gratitude and you know all you know that kind of a thing and so you're serving someone by loving them well yeah

and by having hard difficult conversations with them yeah you got to sit down in this situation you say hey you're looking for a second job that means more work hours a week more time away from your family and this is all because you're not showing discipline over here and when you show them your teaching you're guiding you're instructing shoot them straight i'll i'll pay for you to go i'll pay for your ramsey plus membership

and you go you know you you uh that's what you tell him and you go i'll walk with you and i'll coach you and because i think you've got huge rock star potential as a leader because of your passion for this place and i really want to pour into you and lift you up yeah and you can set a model in place then on how you lead people for

the rest of your life there really cool question charlie you got a good heart man this is the ramsay show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five matt is with us in springfield missouri hey matt welcome to the show how can we help hey dave thanks for taking my call sure

um so long story short here my wife and i bought a house in 2012 at about 160 000 and we spent the last eight years paying off our house and we just did that last year in july and now my wife's wanting to move again and because her office got closed down

during the covid pandemic and she ended up working remotely from home now permanently and so i'm having trouble coming to terms with wanting to possibly take on another mortgage and so i'm kind of needing some advice on how i should handle this uh um okay so your current home is worth what we bought the home for 160 in 2012 and right now it's probably worth about 280.

okay and what's wrong with the house you have now nothing wrong with it she just one she doesn't like the layout and two there's no office space for her we're in a home like she works from the kitchen table and we have you know kids and everything and uh it gets noisy and she can't you know do client calls and stuff like that because it's too distracting okay so why couldn't you buy a 280 000

home with a different layout and that had an office well we've been looking and uh we haven't found anything in our area

uh of that price and uh with the layout

because you haven't looked in that neighborhood you've been looking in those expensive neighborhoods you could say that yeah no i'm sure of it i mean you know yeah that's the logo you're looking in the wrong neighborhood if you want to stay out of debt right well i i do want to stay out of that i don't know why are you looking in the neighborhood that has debt uh that's a good question

but uh the the area has just shot up so high that you know well then yours should have been shot up i mean a 280 000 home in springfield missouri's no slouch dude that's a that's a decent house and you could have a differently configured home that included a different layout and config included that for that same money and just swap houses yeah but what we're doing is we're using all

this other bs as an excuse to move up in house that's really what it comes down to yeah yeah i guess you could say that yeah i mean i want a different kitchen that's got like 70 000 more worth of crap in it

and i'm using this i'm working at the kitchen table whining as my excuse to go into that again so where in the process did you all lose or did she lose the vision of being debt-free on your home is uh worth it uh well i think it's just been over the course of since she's had to work from home the constant interruptions with uh kids being in the area and her trying to handle phone calls and get work done and

go renter in office yeah we've we've talked about that but we do pay for a private school as well for our children and we haven't been able to justify the cost of getting a rental office or her her business did have her set up to go to a rental office's office spaces and then they got rid of that option what kind of work is she doing she's a hr consultant so she's on the phone 80 of the day yeah she's handling she does a compensation mail analysis uh executive analysis who's watching the kids when they're not in school like how many kids are running around we have two kids and it will usually be me uh watching them but i i do shift work so i'll one week i'm working nights the next week i'm working evenings so i have a crazy work schedule i work weekends yeah well let me just tell you something by yourself let me say something dave's absolutely right youtube this is a relationship thing you guys got to sit down and and re re-establish the why why did we do all this for eight years what was the whole purpose of this and you know this is a pretty easy solve number one you're living in a hundred sixty thousand dollar area so today's point the two days yeah i know well i'm saying that's what they were yeah that's what they bought at yeah and then so there's a couple neighborhoods up so i think it's unsafe it's not like schools are awful so i think this big bad world you're in the other thing is is that you know she can work at the coffee shop or something just you know and make phone calls and step out or do whatever i just i just think this idea that we got to move somewhere uh for her to have a place to work besides the kitchen table i i just think that's a relationship thing where you guys have to re-establish the why behind this and then say okay we're willing to do this but we're not willing to go beyond the 280.

okay today okay and then if you want to trade houses trade houses but that off listen the tails wagon the dog here you're making a bad financial decision for a temporary situation

right yeah we're working at the kitchen table is not the way it's going to be for the next decade right she's not going to be at the kitchen table for a decade and you don't you don't go buy a house uh because of something that happened with covid these are you know i do not know when she'll be back at work or when they'll be funding the office

but you make plenty of money and so for you know what four or five hundred bucks you can go rent a single office in one of these office suites and just you know she can plan herself down there and then she's got a work environment that's reasonable and then if you want to trade houses for a better layout that's fine you could guys can do whatever you want

you got a lot of excuses for a guy that called in wanting help not to do this and i'm just telling you don't do it there's no chance no chance that i'm going into that in this situation none this is all a bunch of i want it and i'm a little bit uncomfortable and i'm sorry you're uncomfortable i'm sorry she's uncomfortable whoopi don't put yourself back into a mortgage over that

you finally got yourself free man remember what it was like having that thing hanging around your neck don't go back into the noose don't stick your head back in there man don't put your foot in a bear trap again them things hurt man don't do it don't do it please please don't do it and and you know but you you know is there a valid part of

this that she's trying to do business in an

unprofessional situation yeah go around an office and do it tomorrow that's what i would do in your situation i'm not going into debt for an office in your home over covet no you know what the new thing is now is literally these uh closets that are offices it's like a new thing uh you look it up online i'm not kidding where people are turning closets into miniature offices we could at least do that no i'm not going in the closet

she makes 175 000.

when we went broke and lost everything i said never again and i meant it never again are these bozos going to have their thumb on my neck never again is american express gonna call my house unless it's a wrong number

never again there's not a chance i am not going back there's not anything you people can do to scare me enough there's nothing you can do to make me mad enough there's not anything you can do to make me greedy enough passionate enough to go into debt the borrower is slave to the lender and i am free and i am never going back it's easy for me to say

and and i can't imagine you and stacey having that conversation to be any different no yeah it's look every time that you allow your emotions to drive you then then you lose sight of decisions that you have made many you know what i mean and your critical thinking skills critical thinking is gone and i feel this i feel this i feel this and in this situation you made a great recommendation

they can upgrade and still be mortgage-free yeah it's easy

it's not a bad it's not like not enough enough enough that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five anders in washington d.c hey andrew how are you

good dave how are you better than i deserve what's up so uh we've been working the plan for three years um we paid off just under a hundred thousand dollars in debt and then the next two years spent saving up and obviously doing the emergency fund and we did the 3b we saved almost 200 000 we put down money on the house then we have our emergency fund in place great

so we're looking to kind of do the four five and six perfect um now the 15 got that that's great we start investing in retirement and now the question i have is the 529 should i do that or a

separate broker's account that's not a traditional 529 specifically with our income and then we don't know if our kids are or are not going to go to college okay well uh what is your household income so right now it's a little over 200 but

kind of projected to go up okay well to start with no one knows that they're killing kids are going to go to college but we're for sure know that if they don't have the money it's going to be harder so a 529 grows tax-free i love keeping the government's hands off the growth it can be transferred to a sibling it can be transferred to a parent another family member

it can be transferred if they don't use it if they got scholarships they can you can pull from a 529 the equivalent amount of the scholarship with no taxes

tax-free growth and so yeah i'm doing a 529 i'm not going to over fund it if you have concerns i'm not going to put 200 000 in there but but i'm definitely going to put 40 or 50 60 grand in there depending on the age of the kid and maybe even more but uh uh

and let it grow you know a brokerage account infers that you're buying and selling stocks and you don't need to be doing that especially for your kids college so i don't want that much risk i just use good growth stock mutual funds in a tax-free growth in a 529 and that and you choose the mutual funds and you choose to move them around that's the type of 529 you want we're very specific about that in our in financial peace university and in the total money makeover but yeah just

you know you don't have to overdo it but don't under do it either and overthink it about whether your kid's going to college or not

interesting so when we start the show 30 years ago the assumption was everybody wanted their kid to go to college and now they don't yeah and increasingly becoming the case but also point out here that these 529 plans that money can be used for non-traditional college education as well so trade schools that's anything from tech schools i mean you can use that and and so you're seeing more and more opportunities for people to get qualified to do the work they want to do so it's not like you're you're you're being unwise buying it for their private school when they're 1 k through 12.

use private school while they're uh k-12 you can do any kind of post-secondary education there's all kinds of stuff you can use it for legally and it keeps the government's hands off of it and so you know if you put twenty thousand dollars in there and it grows to eighty or a hundred that's eighty thousand dollars with no taxes on it i like that i like that a lot better than screwing around with

it in a brokerage account that's right and a lot of options tons of options uh gustavo is with us in tucson i mispronounced that how do you pronounce your name sir i did say it you nailed it well it didn't mess it up hillbilly spanish is just a hard thing dude i'm just saying so what's up man uh well i kind of had like a weird question that i'm on baby step i'm finishing up baby step three

next month just to give you a heads up of where i'm at and i want to get a toy i had one when i was in debt but i want to make sure it's kind of weird because my vehicles aren't worth too much and the toy that i'm looking into which is the rzr razor run they run about 15 000 news and that's more than my vehicles combined

but i'm we're kind of happy with our vehicle so that's where my question is kind of is it weird that my toy would be more expensive than my vehicles even though we would be in a position to of quiet catch yes all right i mean it's which it's weird you know it's weird that's why you're asking right you already knew it's weird but it's cool they're neat they're neat vehicles man you're talking about

the the um is it the can-am make that who makes that the razer does uh polaris polaris makes

it yeah that's right yeah yeah i've got some friends down at cabo that have have them and they all ride up the beach at cabo those those things are very cool they they look they look neat too man and they will haul butt they they're fun yes so uh yeah and you're you're in tucson so you're doing like desert desert action with the thing huh right yeah

i mean i could make it all the way to phoenix i'm sure yeah i bet you could yeah that's they're they're very cool it's a cool vehicle i i kind of want i kind of want one myself but um

anyway the yeah uh your cars are uh your your daily

driver transportation your family depends on those your income is dependent upon those um and so yeah the uh you know a

snowmobile a sea doo a boat uh a razor should not be

worth more than your cars uh it's just kind of a common sense thing it's not really a financial thing uh so right all it says is that you're probably not quite there yet that would be my opinion and of course you made the mistake of asking so i'll give you my opinion but the um

yeah that's i i i mean you've got you got a toy in your house i do but it was a gift to you on that it was and as you know i'm cash flowing the renovation of it yeah he has a classic car yeah got a 72 convertible karma ghia uh found an old guy uh in the hood that loves working on him and so he's gonna help me put

the carpet kit in and just do a little bit at a time because we have kids in school and and other things and and so you just have to go at the speed of cash like you said when we built this place and so i got the exterior done still a little bit more to do and it still looks pretty sweet it looks sweet but yeah you have to kind of what's

the ratio on that i mean understand what he's saying he's like well i got baby step three now he needs to get the baby step four actually put that in the budget then he needs to begin to save for something like that yeah and you you know i i and i don't know that i have a rule and i'm just kind of sitting here thinking on the fly

but right really you're if you're if your boat is eighty thousand dollars and your cars are ten thousand dollars that just seems it doesn't seem right you know and so if your razor's fifteen thousand and your cars are five thousand that seems backwards yeah you know and it but those razors are very cool they're very yeah i think he may have talked you into buying wise i don't need one right

i don't know why but i'm probably just because it has a motor and goes because it's fast it goes wooden wooden there you go man so probably got a loud muffler i can make a redneck muffler on it oh sure redneck anything up you know that there you go [Music]

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so

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 825-5225

if you're tired of feeling stuck with your money like you'll never get out of debt or save enough it doesn't have to be that way you can get a ramsey plus membership that includes the ever dollar budgeting app the world's best budgeting app it includes financial peace university where you can go through the class learn step by step how to get out of debt like millions literally of people have done

when you budget you get intentional with your money you get a clear path you start working it you're going to make progress you're going to make it fast you can start budgeting you can start making these steps free starting today with a free trial of ramsey plus text trial to 33

789 text trial three three seven eight nine ld is with us in indianapolis

hi l.d welcome to the ramsey show

i did listen to you for a long time my wife last night or you really have a first baby hey when's he coming anytime you know all right good for you

yeah yeah pretty excited uh we got some pretty total goals for the future and so we'd like to we're trying to grow our income as much as possible trying to decide if now would be a good time for her to maybe advance her career and become a dental hygienist she's an assistant right now but it put about 10 to 12 an hour on her pay

uh caveat to that would be

we one of our goals is for her to be able to stay at home and be a bigger part of our business within the next 10 12 years or so and so

just trying to decide if it's

if it's justifiable i guess interesting so what would she do in the business if she stayed home with the baby and babies potentially and worked in the business what would she be doing uh with a farm full-time i'm a farmer and

so you know she she's uh she's also a pretty good bookkeeper and things like that and so

okay uh my mom take my mom takes care of a lot of that right now but you know in the future okay so so she saves you money by doing

the bookkeeping that you're paying someone else to do or she's replacing mom she would probably be you know doing a lot of what my mom does okay so you have to weigh all right she wants to be home sounds like that's what both of you want versus she now continues to work and

there's the cost of the schooling the cost of getting qualified to become that dental hygienist and you're looking at ten to twelve dollars an hour so you start weighing opportunity cost with the emotional costs and i think that if it's stacey and i we're gonna sit down together in the old-fashioned grandpa and and grandma conversation the pros and cons of both of those so which way does her heart lead

the most which if if things were just has she wanted them forget about the money equation and making more money and all the benefits that come with that what does her heart want to do

oh she definitely wants to be able to stay at home at some point all right so why are you back and forth on this where were you at the start of this phone call would like i said we just we've got some some things we'd like to accomplish and her her income helps helps with getting there what does she make

she makes about 30 right now okay so that this would put her at about 40.

uh hygienists are in our area are in that 50s yeah 50s 50s okay i mean okay and so

um what does hygienic school cost

uh well we live in the middle of nowhere and so it's about 30 000 but it'd be a pretty good a lot of travel time involved with that too it was a new baby two

right takes two and a half years yeah

so we have time and money here that we're popular right right yeah this is more than just working for uh working uh

with the baby at home this is uh two and a half years of training in it and by by the way during that time she's not working right

it'd be pretty tough it'd be pretty tough on her yeah yeah yeah so

it's costing you 30 a year in income

and it's costing you 30 000 over two and a half years and she's traveling and gone so that after two and a half years she works for six years making twenty thousand dollars more i mean you're gonna she's gonna make money on this transaction but it doesn't sound like it's worth it yeah yeah that's been her back and forth yeah it sounds like by the time i mean

if she was gonna do it for the rest of her life and make an extra 20 000 a year and loved it and it was the long-term goal that might then the equation starts to work mathematically yeah but right now you're not going to get enough of her increased income before she's willing or before she's able to come home i think you start figuring out what she could do from home to create an income while she's helping

you with the farm stuff in there with the babies i think maybe we look at shifting that i bet you she could come up with a side gig like a christy wright business boutique idea um i mean if it's just selling stuff on ebay i don't care what it is yeah and then it may be streamlining operations on the farm remember we're saving money that's more money in our pockets certainly to a farmer

you know the thing that point out here uh is ld is that her

heart is not in it if i heard on there that her heart she wanted to be a dental hygienist what she's always wanted to do she loves it loves it loves it but she also wants to be a mom for a season then i think this is an investment and a sacrifice that you figure out how to do but i'm going to tell you with that kind of schedule

the schooling you're losing your income as it is that's going to create all types of sacrifices and a squeeze and and when you don't have the drive the juice for something i'm gonna tell you it makes it really really difficult and it can put you behind emotionally not just financially daniel's in columbia south carolina hi daniel welcome to the ramsay show

hello dave thanks for thanking my call sure what's up all right so um i'm in baby step six um i'm 27 and my wife is 25. um basically

my mom reached out to me um asking for help um she had a lease of the fleece and she want to pay it off basically it ended up the lease ends up this month um

and she asked me to to borrow from me to to 2k and basically um she asked me not to tell my wife and obviously you know we are we have jones account and also um

what's your question yeah what what's your advice in my situation i don't do anything that i can't tell my wife anything ever if i'm in a meeting and they say all the discussion in this meeting has to stay in this room you can't tell your wife i get up and leave the meeting there are no things on this planet that i can't tell sharon that is against the law at ramsey world

it will get your throat cut by your wife while you're asleep dude you can't be hiding crap from your wife

hello is that right yeah yes i'm trying i mean your mom is out of control

where's your dad are they divorced yeah no they're they are together they have separate accounts and actually my dad let him lent her 10k to he lent his own wife money

yes that's strange

okay so uh mom i can't do anything that i love you but i can't do anything that i can't tell my wife and don't ever suggest that again because it's not gonna it's not a profitable conversation for us to have okay mom can't do that and if you need uh two thousand dollars you need to talk to your husband my dad and you guys need to work on your finances

and get them get them combined and get them straightened out but i i think your mom i think your mom is trying to hide all of this from everybody and still trying to find a way to snake her way through this and it's time that the cards are played a face up on the table mom is getting ready to be exposed and needs to be yeah needs to be

so she needs to talk to your dad and she and your dad have got a lot of work to do but you don't need to get involved in this son you just lovingly say no i don't hide things from my wife and i really think you need to talk to dad about this he's got the money and you guys have the money and you all need to fix

this so sorry can't do it love you mom love you mom no chance

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[Music] ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today on the phones in minneapolis is going to be kristin who says on my screen kristen you're debt free congratulations thank you hi guys hey how much have you paid off 61 091.37

love it how long did this take 48 months good for you and your range of income during that time okay i went back and checked and it was 32 000 to 51 000 and now back down to about 40.

wow so what do you do for a living i'm an accountant and recently a ramsey

master financial coach ah okay so starting to get some extra income that way yeah very good good for you

so what kind of debt was the 61 000

so a lot of it was medical just kind of stuff that surgeries children being born and then just like once we would accumulate it it would just hang around and payments payments payments there was some personal loans and a big family loan that we had to do repairs on our home okay wow good for you so how much was

the big family loan that was was like 22 000 that was the

big one of the whole bunch then that was the big guy hiding in the closet yeah gotcha okay so what happened four years ago that put you on this journey so my marriage was coming to an end and that's when we separated our money and i had always wanted to be debt-free and become an edm so that was like pedal to the metal

okay so fresh start after the divorce yep and um you already knew about our stuff but you were just now able to do it because of the the disagreement in the household before yeah it was like uh you know putting on a lot of throttle and the car is in neutral now now i actually got some traction okay good for you

all right so you're going to be an everyday millionaire that's your future i love that yeah and what do you tell people when you're coaching them now that the key to getting out of debt is because you paid off 61 000 in four years making 32.

yeah for me there was three three things and i would say the reason which is my voice the plan obviously and then just the determination

so we just saw a picture of the four boys right yep on youtube there good looking family

yeah thanks that's fun you got a lot of why there yes wow for sure so i i want to ask you when you decide it's you're coming out of this divorce so that's a painful thing and you decide all right i'm going to restart reboot do it the way that i always wanted to do it you've got those boys as your why every day looking at him uh what what fired

you up the most in this process was it the first one the first debt that you paid off on the debt snowball was it just the boys um what was the real

driver for you once you got into the process where you began to experience some momentum i think i had a lot of little loans so

getting started and getting those paid off there was a lot of immediate you know payoff for those and i just knew what i wanted to give them i didn't i didn't want a house full of stress and i wanted to give them a good future not like just giving them money but showing them what to do and they they hold me accountable i got a debit card mail to me and i open it up and they're like mom is that a credit card

they're always watching me that's great that's so fun very cool so they know the rules then they know what you have to do oh yeah yeah very very fun cool so um how long had you been familiar with our stuff before your marriage ended uh quite a while um i think my folks introduced me to your radio show and back in like 2010 and then i coordinated and fpu starting in 2011

and then i did another one before my last son was born so i've done a couple of those and i was just kind of hooked because i'm a natural saver and so once kind of the shackles were off and we found a better church that i wanted to be at and i started tithing again and i think dave you had said like a month ago when you talked about god throwing open the window of heaven he sure did in my case because it's like

once you know we were pushing the bike down the hill everything just kept piling on i swear i have food show up in my freezer that wasn't there i had a expedition that i think two of the pictures are like a time lapse that i got when my son was seven months old the oldest one and he's 12 now and i've

still got it it's just about 300 000 miles on it but stuff just kept being a benefit there was just kind of blessings from everywhere wow can i ask you what did you do to take go from 32 to 51k what happened um i my regular job was not 40 hours so

i had a base of that and then i did a lot of side accounting work

and then just try to get and i got a couple more clients and stuff like that and then um i worked for my mom who's a cpa and i did tax work at night

just kind of everywhere i could pull from yeah that's great very good you're a hustler yeah you're getting her done girl proud of you very very well done good job who are your biggest cheerleaders other than your boys um i would say my parents because they've been down that road and they've been debt free for a while i have a lot of friends i don't have a lot of naysayer friends i got a lot of friends who are debt free or are on their way

and then yeah these these kids i can't say enough about them because they never complained they knew what the plan was they volunteered i don't need a treat we can save it so i'm just really proud of what they have learned and how they keep me accountable very cool very cool powerful kristen what are the boys names

so aiden is 12.

gavin is nine mason is seven and morgan is four so we're going to try to coordinate it they're coming in here they're going to do the screen all right they've earned it no question about it very cool what a great family project we're proud of you great job we've got a copy of the legacy journey which is the next uh chapter in your story as you said you're gonna be an edm

and everyday millionaire you are on your way kiddo and uh and of course another copy of the total money makeover which you'll be able to give to someone and pay it forward and get somebody else's uh journey started with that best-selling book so good stuff all right kristen and the gang 61 000 paid off in 48 months making 32 000

extra side hustles up to 51 part of that time count it down let's hear a debt free scream all right ready boy three two one [Applause]

i love that sound yes that is the sound

of a family tree being changed right there you heard it yes those boys lived that with her yeah what a legacy single mom uh leading modeling the way i just you know i'm

always blown away by the stories of everybody we get to hear their debt-free journey but certainly uh you know anthony o'neil and i got to host a show last week or a single mom making 32 000 same thing same thing and i i have a special place in my heart for those ladies yeah step up and do that we all do it's hard enough to parent uh certainly by yourself

and then and then go through that debt-free journey i want to point out something dave that i thought was so heartwarming you asked her who were her biggest cheerleaders and she said beyond her parents were friends she said they weren't naysayers they had been on the journey themselves and i just want to point that out that when you decide to live like no one else you better hang out with people that are that are on board

and will support you you become who you hang around with birds of a feather you read what they read that's true you talk like they talk you um you know you attend church like they attend church you treat your spouse like they treat their spouse i mean this is this is you become who you hang around with so choose carefully my friends choose carefully this is the ramsay show

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so

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carol is with us in sacramento hi carol welcome to the ramsay show hi dave how are you better than i deserve how can ken and i help okay i have a question i'm actually a ramsay coach and also an everyday millionaire we have three homes that are paid for and we are also a co-owner with one of our children due to due to a divorce

our question is this if we sell one of the rental homes we could net about 560 000

which is almost enough to pay off the kids homes and surprise them we don't quite have enough or about 60k short of paying off both of the homes

should we do that or should we keep the house or should we sell it and put the money in mutual funds i'm confused you said kids homes two homes we have yes two homes okay and two adult children okay and we're co-owners on one of the homes

okay but you would pay it off and surrender that ownership yes okay because you're only a

co-owner because you had to bail them out in the divorce yes and then my our other kid has his own home and um okay so you sell the rental and it brings 560 000 but you need 620 000

to do this exactly and you don't have the other cash we kind of do i just don't know if it's smart to pull that out of because we would we have other funds it's not our retirement funds i just don't know if it's smart to do right now um we're getting eaten alive in capital gains we're paying about 200 000 in capital gains so what is your net worth

probably about three million okay uh i would do it but i would only do it if you pull out enough out of your other investments in order to actually do it

if you don't actually pay off the mortgages it kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it yeah kind of because from what i understand um in california you can only get so much money per year so we may not be able to do the whole thing all in one uh you i don't know california law but in this in the the federal taxes there you have a gift

tax limitation that this is well in excess of but you can use some of your federal estate tax exemption called a unified estate tax credit and you just have to do a file you have to unified as state tax credit and you're using some of your federal exemption up so when you die you would have used some of it up already um but you're nowhere near the limits anyway it's like 20 million

so you're fine that's what you would do to get rid of the federal gift tax i do not know california tax law at all so you'd want to you'd want to consult a tax professional to figure that out i suspect that that unified estate tax credit would also apply in california i i bet you it's aligned with the federal guidelines this is my guess i'll be shocked

if it's not um but california does some weird butt stuff to tax our people so i don't know um but anyway yeah so uh

your net worth now becomes two and a half and they have paid for houses the only other question i've got is would they commit to never borrowing money again for anything

yes yeah i wouldn't make it a big deal but i probably would have like a little one-page letter in both of them and their spouses sign it if we pay off your home you never borrow money again and so our family tree is completely changed never borrow money again for anything for any reason yeah ever and by the way you shouldn't have to if you don't have a house payment you'll be able to save up

and buy anything you want to buy yeah yeah that's and just you know we we bring in a nice income off of the rent we don't have to have it so that's kind of my dilemma too i'm just like should we how old are you

sorry how old are you guys we're in our 60s yeah i would do it yeah

really yeah okay and pull the other 60k out of yes i would not do it unless you're going to pay them off i mean there's no point in paying it down that doesn't do anything you still have a stringent mortgage so but get rid of the the debt and have them both sign a little one-page letter um just type it up and just talk about legacy and how

you want to change your family tree and everybody participates i think that's a fair trade and then after that you just don't bring it up and you can't go managing their finances anymore this is their life you don't get to interfere this is a gift uh but it's pr the gift is predicated on the fact that we're changing our family tree and that is a fair level of control in return for

the gift yeah let me ask you on that are you saying in the letter that they are committing they're just asking the kids to commit to that they're not going to be checking up on them that's what you're getting at correct there's no strings attached but it kind of is well it's a it's a promise

yeah i like that it's just a promise i promise in return for having my mortgage paid off to never borrow money yeah i think that's fair that's a family oath so to speak but it's not a it's not a legal commitment and no you're not going to check up on them once a year and look at their balance sheets and no you're not doing any of that it's just like

you know if they go and buy a house and put it on a mortgage in the future you would just look at them and say you broke your promise you know that's it that's all it is and then you just go well that's sad you broke your promise because you shouldn't have had to yeah if you're because the kids are going to be millionaires pretty quick oh yeah no question about

it they'll be there very very quickly depending if they're if they are you know learning from their parents model uh to not borrow and to be generous and to be investors they'll get there very very quickly open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five matthews in phoenix hi matthew how are you doing well dave yourself better than i deserve how can we help

i have a question about refinancing we owe about 131 on the house with about seven years left of payments after refinancing about

eight years ago and my wife is going to be losing uh

going on to uh full disability probably within the next six months to a year and unable to work which will be cutting our income into half uh to have money for medical expenses would it be smart to refinance to lower the um house payment to cover medical expenses in the future what do you make uh currently uh 45 for my work and then

with the veteran uh disability i collect

another 24 000 so about 65

a year nine yeah and then your house payment's about 15.50

okay um what does she make

uh currently about 60 to 70 so after

uh she's what is the nature what is the nature of her disability uh it's a terminal um illness that's

slowly debilitating her where she has uh chronic fatigue and unable to stay awake

or uh work oh my how old is she uh

mid-40s and i'm in my mid-30s wow

i'm sorry man uh that's a battle we've been going through but still staying strong and trying to follow your way as best as possible to prepare for the upcoming future of

her health issues

seven years is so fast you're going to be done i hate to have you walk away from that but i would not trade uh

quality of life if we've got a terminal diagnosis for anything so yeah i probably would can i probably would consider just because i don't only want you to have the wiggle room to make sure you got medical bills and stuff covered i think you can cover the house payment i think you could cut it out and make it but it might mean that you don't get to do some things with her that you need to do while she can exactly so it was the odd of being

debt-free because we only owe 131 on the house and you're almost there in seven years oh i hate to have you lose that but yeah if you put that on a 15 it will relax that payment considerable and uh you can circle back later

and maybe still make it in seven years or or eight years or something you never know exactly where this journey is going to take you but um yeah i mean you you you need to concentrate on her

okay just wanted to hear from you because i know always snowball forward and we've been doing really good the last seven years after taking your course i would love to see you finish it up but not if it means that you lose some experiences with the time you have with her that's not a that's not a good trade i i wouldn't but either way is okay but i just

wow heartbreaking i'm sorry

this is the ramsay show

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hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

this is the ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today he is the host of the ken coleman show which is where you learn all about your career all about jobs all about how to get them how about how to find the work you love and so if you have questions about career and work he's here to help and we're here to help you in general so jump in at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

canal is with us canal is in columbus ohio hi canal what's up hi how you doing better than i deserve how can we help i had a quick question about

self banking with whole term life insurance and whether it's worth it if you accrue a cash balance and borrow against that and pay interest to yourself or if you should stay away from that and keep using a bank yeah um it's an absolute scam

it's a whole life policy it's not a turn it's not a term policy it's a whole life life insurance policy basically whole life life insurance is where you pay 20 times more

for the same amount of insurance and so the extra 95 out of the hundred dollars goes into a savings account and um that you earn very little on

after you finally start to build it up and then one of the ways they're pitching it now is the self-banking concept where you use your own money which by the way when you have a checking account you are using your own money i don't know why they think that's magical

okay perfect i guess i won't use that no i i wouldn't use it i would stay completely away from the company that is offering it and any other offerings that they have because it is a really really bad product and it is a scummy way to sell whole life life insurance which is a scummy product to start with but no one sells that stuff anymore except people no one believes in

it or talks about it positively except people that are in that business and this whole thing of you can borrow your own money why would i want to borrow my it doesn't even make any sense dave but this is the power of marketing i mean the message here is really look into stuff i love that people can call and get advice on this but really dig into stuff

and and and does it make sense and if it doesn't make sense why doesn't it make sense but they've put some wonderful marketing copy on this yeah so from yourself give you another one it just keeps it yeah isn't that great and you pay and you pay them interest right to borrow money from to borrow your money that you saved up in your savings you're moving money from your checking account to put

it over there to them to not even get a good return on it to get it back it's just it's mind-numbing it's like moving a pile of rocks from one side of the yard to the other back and forth back and forth back and forth and so here's the other one uh whole life life insurance you can uh you can use it cash value insurance grows tax-free well no

it doesn't that's a lie but here's how they propose that you do this you overpay for your insurance by 20 times for all of your life your whole life that's where it comes from they take your money your whole life and finally you have some money in there let's just say you've got 50 000 in there now if the 50 000 is in excess of

what you paid in and you take it out that is taxable because there's a gain right yes but

not if you borrow it

and so you put money into this investment now you can borrow your money that you put in there back out and pay them interest but it's tax-free yeah well no kidding

doofus when you go to the bank and borrow 50 000 they don't charge you taxes on it it's a debt yeah

of course it's not taxable debt is not taxable but it's not a tax-free growth on an investment like a roth ira or roth 401k it's not even on the same planet

yeah it's the same kind of stuff that he's dealing with there and it's this whole idea of but but boy i mean

you talk about i mean they're almost as scummy as the timeshare people yeah they're almost that scummy yeah they're almost as scummy as the payday lenders they're right up there that's straight up manipulation what you just laid out for us as clear as you could lay it out that's manipulating people lying yeah we could call it dave ramsey is giving bad advice because with whole life you could get tax-free growth

no you can't yeah no you can borrow your own money and pay them interest right and borrowed

money is always tax-free because it's borrowed right it's not an actual investment so yeah that's how that works but but i'm the crook and i'm the one that doesn't know what he's talking about according to that industry now if you want some people pissed off at you that's a good group of people to have pissed off at you the time share people are pissed off at me yeah the uh car fleecing people are pissed off at me the payday lenders hate my guts and the whole life people oh my god you

would think i would have you taken on the rent to own furniture people yet you know they just don't do much anymore right okay i'm just trying to think of anybody else while we're we should just go ahead and get a full list of the scumbags people you don't get christmas cards from yeah yeah well i mean rent to own is actually you know i have they are taking on a couple of our books

and a couple of our courses over there yeah but i don't really hear from them much yeah it's not a popular moment yeah the nothing down same as cash furniture people they're not happy with me no best buy screwing people with that stuff for decades yeah this ain't the best buy people yeah you know it's not hard to figure out yeah the product protection plan people they don't like either yeah yeah all

the extras why is it that everybody makes you the bad guy because you're trying to save people money well i'm just trying to save people that's the point yeah you're hurting the big corporate scams and so that's why they come at you yeah like everybody didn't already know payday lenders were a screw job like like all of america knows time everybody knows a time share is like

the worst thing on the planet yeah and like they're shocked that dave ramsey said it out loud the time shares are scummy yeah oh my god of course we said it out loud they were scummy long before i back when i had a hair they were scum yeah well when you offer all these free things just for a meeting which by the way i did it one time

you didn't i did you went in the tiger cage yeah because the package was so nice and stable you see the tiger for an hour and you get a free pass to the zoo for a year tiger hasn't eaten in four days but come in the cage and pet the tiger for an hour oh here's the deal i didn't pay attention to my wife this is a great story she's like you're gonna have to sit

there and listen i'm like trust me i won't i'm the guy that goes there's no chance well i went in just mr stonewall

i'm not gonna do it like you're the only one's ever done that i know and then sat there and just got worn out i tried to be rude i tried to get kicked out i'll give the guy credit he made me sit there for 90 minutes but i'll tell you what i got all the stuff too so that was it it was the last time i did it it was not worth it it's our first year of marriage buy your own hotel room yes

buy your own hotel room it ain't worth it no don't pet the tiger in the tiger cage yeah it's good he will eat your butt yeah you'll come out of there with a 26 000 time share that's worth a dollar yeah you can't sell it for a dollar on ebay you can't get out of it no you is stuck baby you've been petting a tiger don't go in the tiger cage no wonder he hadn't eaten in three days there's nothing as greedy as a time share salesman oh my god this is the ramsey show [Music]

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if you're a business owner or leader listen up financial wellness benefits are no longer quote unquote optional for your employee benefits package yeah financial wellness is a thing the research team here at ramsey solutions recently put out a report that found that half of all employers say their employees are stressed about money yet only 18 percent feel responsible for their employees financial well-being well that didn't make sense your employees bring their money stress through

the front door with them because they come to work with it every day it's hurting your business with turnover missed work lost productivity delayed retirements you got to fix this team to get our team's report on what's happening in the workplace with financial wellness and learn what the employees are actually facing

you can add financial wellness to your benefits package and will help your business text wellness to 33 789

wellness to 33789

our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from jennifer in texas she writes and i'm 48 and i've been in an industry for 20 years that i'm not passionate about i've done well

but i'm burned out and feel trapped i would love to go into nursing am i crazy to quit my job to go into a career where i'll make less than one third of the income if i stick it out for two to three years we could pay off our house and i could just quit completely but i'm not ready to retire is the financial and emotional roi from

nursing school worth going back to school or should i stick it out well let's first address the fact that you can work full-time while in nursing school is it very very difficult yes but you can do it you can certainly work part-time in health care even where you can get some experience and more importantly connections for nursing when you get out of school so i when you know

the reality that you can still work that you can cash flow your way through nursing school here's what you can realize you might be able to pay off the house in two to three years while you're cash flowing your way through nursing school and if it's really about love i would love to go into nursing so if you really love the idea of caring for people in that nursing profession

you can make really good money be very very fulfilled for another 10 you know years 10 12 years based on your age so is it worth it you have to answer that but i would say it's worth it if you can cash flow your way through and not go into debt because you've worked so hard to get to a point where you're going to pay off the house

so sticking it out for two to three years in a job you can't stand i don't think you need to do that i would make preparations to part-time

nursery school or if you can go full time and make some other sacrifices i think you go for it i completely agree completely agree and if the you know her last question is the financial and emotional roi from nursing home school worth going back to school yes without question you'll love your work and you'll make good money yes and you can pay off the house yeah yeah

and uh i don't think you have to stay in the job i agree for two to three years and i love the part-time idea so absolutely so yeah the thing is this

you know but make sure that you love

nursing not you love the idea of it very good and i and not you love um

the money you could make that's correct so here's how you know that for those of you who are looking at this question in a different field or maybe even nursing how do you do that so what she does is she gets around other nurses this is phone calls zooms coffees lunches and by the way there's tons of different types of nursing uh er labor delivery checking people in at surgery there's a lot of different nursing positions

and by talking to you know as many nurses as you can in all those different positions here's what happens i get head knowledge they tell me what it's like day in day out what it's like to move into that position how you advance you learn everything and then what happens is your brain processes that information dave your heart eventually goes ding ding ding or and that's why it's

so important to really know what it is then your heart will confirm and now you're ready to go don't just assume you're gonna love it joe's in louisville kentucky hi joe welcome to the ramsay show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up well my fiance and i um she's not a u.s citizen but she's lived here for about eight years we plan to go back to europe or move back to europe for a year to two years while

we do the

application process for her permanent residency and i'm curious if you think i should sell my house or not

uh yeah yeah i would it's a great time to sell a house okay and then if i do sell my house what should i do with that extra money i think i would have somewhere between 80 and a hundred thousand dollars you don't have any debt we would we have no debt uh which our our finances are completely separated now sure but we're um but we have no debt neither one of us other than

the mortgage and um her family has a place for us to stay for the time we're there so we would be living rent free we both work remotely okay so your incomes won't change

correct that's cool what do you all make

i make about a hundred thousand i'm self-employed to engineering and she is in marketing and makes around 50. excellent cool when are you getting married um well that's that's a big question we haven't planned all that it'll probably be sometime in 2022

okay all right um yeah i i i uh i think i would as far as where you park it if you're gonna park it for one year probably just a money market account you're not gonna make any money but you're not gonna lose any money if you're going to park it for two years or more you may want to consider putting part of that into some mutual funds something like a an index fund an s p 500 fund or something like that

i do some of that but now i understand that that money goes up and down and you could lose a few thousand or you could make a few thousand doing that um sure you know you're not gonna lose 80 000 doing that but you might lose uh eight you know uh or something like that so that you gotta if you want to play that a little bit

you could that's a medium risk way to take a chance of you know instead of making eight dollars you might make eight thousand dollars but you're not gonna you're not gonna get rich on any of this well it's just sitting there as you're just parking it until you're married and come back home and so forth so uh obviously the citizenship thing changes when you're married right yes

and the process is delayed due to covid there's a big waiting list so that's she hasn't seen her family in quite a while so that's why we're choosing to do that in europe we could do that here but we kind of have to stay put can't be in and out of the border while that process has taken place oh really that's interesting as far as we know yeah okay

i don't i don't know how it works honestly i'm completely ignorant of that i just know that when you're you marry an american citizen it changes the process uh substantially uh and so you know i i would guess that the sooner the marriage happened the sooner the citizenship would happen in other words but i think i would want to know about that uh i heard that advice

and i'm just sitting there going what would i do in that situation and because of the medium risk factor i'd probably park it in the money market but i because that me going i i know that it's going to sit there it's not going to gain much at all but i know it's there we're going to keep making money keep adding to that so then when we come back yeah

but i mean but there is a benefit i mean the money you could make i guess to me it felt like too risky for me yeah for the bulk of the time i've been on the air i would have just said money market right for that reason just don't worry about it you know and because uh but you know in the last decade or so i've parked a lot of money short term [Music]

you know and a time or two it's been down i pulled out let cause i was gonna go buy some real estate with it it was down and i had lost a little bit a timer most the time though it was up and i made a lot yeah uh during the time it sat there uh and so what i started realizing was the risk wasn't that heavy it's not that big it's not huge

i mean eight thousand dollars isn't gonna change his life that's to make 150 000 between them yeah you know so if you want to play with it that's fine but if it's emotionally going to keep you up at night then certainly do the money market yeah this is the ramsay show

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[Applause] in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the

debt free stage j.c is with us hey jc

how are you i'm great how are you dave better than i deserve welcome good to have you and where do you live indianapolis indiana wow welcome to nashville and all the way down here to do a debt-free scream that is right love it how much have you paid off i have paid off nineteen thousand dollars or weight 19

188 dollars good how long did this take

um it took 14 months wow and your range

of income during that time i started out at about 24 000 and bumped it up to a little over 36 000. good for you what do you do for a living monday through thursday i am a dental assistant and then um i have been a dog groomer for the last seven years so i do that on

the weekends that's your side hustle then mm-hmm okay very cool what kind of debt was the 19 000

it was a endless cycle of credit cards

and then my student loan and my car hmm

how much did you owe on the student loan in the car 3 500 on the student loan and my car was 9 000. okay all right

and that i paid to my parents ah that was a debt to my parents so it's good to get rid of that too yeah that was a big deal yeah i hear you i hear you so what happened 14 months ago lit you on fire girl you got after it yeah um well i

was working for a um grooming salon and they had unexpectedly

just closed the shop like so they told us they were done and they were filing bankruptcy and we were out of a job

so i was like man i have a lot of debt

like start of the year i had a lot of debt i had lost my job and so i uh just decided to that it was time to figure something else out i didn't really want to work for anyone else in that like grooming so i started up my own thing that was but you were already working the dental yeah at that time okay so you had that job all along but that side job ended

yeah and that woke you up yeah because i i really wasn't making too much money at the dentist job like i can make a bunch of money just grooming so that was where i really made a lot of my money okay all right wow good for you well congratulations and how did you get connected to us parents have listened to you guys for a while and i they'd mention some things about

you and they've always said you know i'm really not been one to be super responsible with money more of a free spirit so i wanted to kind of prove to them that i could really stick to something and and you know get it done and especially when it came to my finances so they knew that i had been in credit card debt for a long time and

i just it would come the start of the year my tax return would come and it'd all go to my credit card debt so i was done doing that so what did you do you started listening to youtube or watching youtube podcasts on spotify broadcast every day to and from work every day okay got real serious about it and that gave you everything you needed to do

this it sure did yeah so you didn't have the books or anything from your paper no but i did end up going to the bookstore and i found one of your older books the total money makeover and i started reading that um and then i decided to sign up for the fpu class oh okay and uh i was like man 100 should i

spend that like it could go to my debt i'm like ramsay said just do it

so i did the fpu class and it was definitely worth it it was a little difficult because it was online during covid yeah so um i did the

best i could with my three-year-old running around um so but but it was

still fine and worth it i mean i stuck to it good for you i'm proud of you i bet your mom and dad are they sure are they really are they were cheering you along yeah it was it was a big deal for christmas instead of getting a bunch of presents i saved up two thousand dollars and gave it to them to put towards my car wow

and uh that meant a lot to them they really were not expecting it at all and so to see them you know hear them talking about how proud of me they were and you know just the hug from my dad and the pat on my back and you know it just it got me fired up to finish paying off the rest so that's cool yeah wow very cool

you

jumped from 24 000 to 36. and i'm

guessing here is that some overtime but also a lot of dog grooming a lot of weekends yes without the little man i mean i miss him a lot the hardest part was being away from him that much i mean it was monday through thursday full time at the dentist job and then thursday night into sunday i was grooming like every single weekend what kept you going he did that's beautiful right there my three-year-old that's beautiful yeah and um i have the greatest accountability partner which is the doctor i work for tony um

every day and he knew how much this meant to me um every day he'd come in and we would be talking about the weekend how many dogs you have to groom this weekend how busy you gonna be how much money you gonna make and it just was like you got to stick to it you know a lot of my time went to that and now i can say it's worth

it now you're free yeah how's it feel i can breathe that's that's how it feels i can breathe finally how old are you 26 26 years old

and you've never been debt-free as an adult have you no no it was almost like having a credit card was a competition how much did you get approved for you know my credit limit's 4 000. what's yours that was like my 21 year old mindset yeah yeah so got you in trouble uh-huh

wow yeah you have to feel

uh one lady said accomplished

i mean this was a not just a 19 000 debt

paid off you changed i did i've changed so much through this whole experience i mean i really thank you so much for this i i don't know how to say it but it's just it's been so eye-opening like i can raise him without having to worry you know all my money's going to my debt and not to what i could be doing more for him you know i've got his savings fund for his college started i've got my retirement fund going

thanks to thanks to tony you know he he's really helped me out too he's it's awesome coached you alone

yeah that is just so cool well well done well done jc and your

young man's name and age you want to get him in the shot for the debt free scream his name is cyprus and he is three you want to come up here come up with mom while we do your debt-free scream she's worked her tail end off she's a hero she's changed her whole life man i'm so proud of you so powerful so well done good stuff

all right it's jc and cyprus from indianapolis man 19 000

paid off in 14 months making 24

to 36. uh we are looking at some people

who have changed their lives i'm so proud of you got a copy of the uh legacy journey for you that's the next chapter for you to become wealthy now unbelievably and you are on your way i'm so proud of you and a copy of the total money makeover so you can give it away to somebody awesome so we'll give you one of each you ready all right jc and cypress count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt free

[Applause]

oh man [Applause] that 19 000 when you're making 24

to 36.

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our scripture today ii corinthians 9 8

and god is able to bless you abundantly so then all things at all times having all that you need you will abound in every good work winston churchill said the pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity the optimist sees opportunity in every difficulty

my fico score is zero i don't have a fico score it's undeterminable that's what they call it sounds kind of evil but yeah i'm undeterminable so how do i survive how do i make it i pay for things and if i don't pay for them i don't buy them now i know that's weird but it's a it's a it's a freeing concept keeps you out of debt you can teach your children to be counter cultural in a culture that has lost its

and we've just dropped prices up to 80 on our best-selling kids products so you can have fun and have an educational summer the adventure pack is a family favorite that includes the new story time collection financial piece junior the smart saver bank and more to make learning about money actually fun the best part is you can add an extra kit for each sibling or if you've got a teen the teen entrepreneur toolbox by anthony o'neill is the perfect safe and flexible way for them to create their own summer job teach kids the right way to handle money while they're young that way they won't live in their bait your basement when they're 30.

at ramsey ramseysolutions.com store ramseysolutions.com

store tina is with us in phoenix hi tina welcome to the ramsay show hi jake hi ken how are you guys doing great how can we help yes so i've talked

to ken last week and i wanted to thank you ken for your advice well that's awesome what would you do so i i was not getting a recommendation from my boss and your advice was to

flood the potential employers in box

with references that could speak of my character and so with it being a long weekend i did that today and after a couple of years came through they said they would like to speak with me and it as long as everything goes through tomorrow i'm going to meet with the teachers and that goes smoothly then i will have a job and they said they were very understanding of that sometimes relationships just don't match

and but they're willing to give me a chance oh i remember this so tina i want to tell dave what happened so tina had great references from previous teaching positions but had a personality conflict with the principal at the school that she just left she was worried that because they wanted to hire this new school wanted to hire but that one uh leader wouldn't give her a recommendation

and so i told her well do you have a lot of other relationships in the school system that can vouch for how great you are and that this was kind of a an outlying circumstances so she went and did it and uh looks like she's going to get that opportunity so good for you teen a way to not quit you did that you're the one that went out

there and believed that you had a reputation uh worth sharing and uh that's really awesome very cool tina yeah i thank you guys for the advice i really appreciate it so i just wanted to say thanks it worked yeah thank you

you did it you went out and fought for it fight for things folks yeah but you know what you told her she could and exactly what to do and she just executed she went and did it yeah and you know sometimes we tell people what to do and they go home and don't do it you know that's right like too often um and then they call us two years later

i should have done it uh but then then other times it's that's that's why we come down here is people like her that's exactly right you say go do this and you'll start winning and she goes does that and then she starts winning that's pretty cool it's fun got the job got the job the ken coleman job technique there it is i love it that is absolutely fabulous amy is in sacramento hi amy welcome to

the ramsey show hi thank you so much for having me on sure what's up um all right so i started a business

last year while i was laid off um and then i got called back to work right as i was about to start looking for clients i'm really eager to quit at least by april of 2022 and focus on my business

full-time it's a bookkeeping business if i didn't mention that and um we already have six months worth

of an emergency fund saved up we plan on

having an additional twelve thousand dollars by next april the thing is my

husband has a job where he gets laid off

quite often he's in a labor union um so we would only be able to last about five and a half months on that extra 12k if my husband were to get laid off otherwise how long how often is he laid off for five and a half months i mean he was like in the last two years he was laid off once for six months um other than that i would say usually

like maybe three four months on average man this job sucks yeah i'd be getting out of the union it does suck but we're waiting until he gets his journeyman card because then you can quit and you can take that anywhere you can work for the city or something like that yeah

we're in it for the long game unfortunately yeah okay so how long before he gets the tournament card um so i think it'll be probably

another like three or four years

wow you're tolerating a lot of crap for that hours you know so every time he gets laid off he doesn't get hours um

but anyways so if he gets laid off we could last on on that extra 12 000 for about five and a half months um otherwise we'd have to dig into the six-month emergency fund or i'd have to get a job again um what do you think about that am i crazy for wanting to quit when i what is i mean you're assuming your business makes nothing i mean

i don't i just don't want to estimate that i mean is your business not made any money all right i mean right now i have two monthly clients i'm netting aside from like clean up work that's one time project um i'm only netting like 300 a month obviously going you don't have a business yet you got a glorified hobby right well the reason why i want to quit

and go full time is because i'm still like learning the business and i want to focus my attention a hundred percent wrong way you got to flip that you got to keep doing these side side jobs like this let's get that up to 900 a month and then let's get it to 1500 a month and let's see how many hours we can actually give to it and really really hustle

and grow your credibility based on your experience but you don't go all in um yeah you get experience then you build it up okay so what if i were to take a part-time job

with the full-time job no your part-time job is learning this side hustle that's right and growing this side hustle that's correct no this listen you cannot

justify giving up your whole career and giving up everything and walking into something that's 300 freaking dollars a month you have got to prove this i mean not right now i know it's right now so prove me wrong go make some dadgum money you do whatever you want to do kiddo but i'm telling you that's dumb don't do that yeah okay yeah let's incrementally

let's get let's go from two clients to three or four clients or let's let's drop the two clients replace them with with more work from clients that'll give you more work we want to get your billable as a bookkeeper this is all about your billable time what you have is a theory right now yeah you need to move it from theory to business a business is something that makes money ongoing that is substantial that

you can live on you need to grow a business and as the business gets up close to what you're making now then you quit your full time but you will have proven your ability to make money doing this

you have to do that and you've got this dream in your head that if you just go full time it's all going to work out honey it's not how it works because you haven't figured out how to run this dadgum business yet you haven't figured out how to make money with it and you got to go make some money that's the whole goal here everybody's willing to do what

it takes very few are willing to wait as long as it takes and that's where you are the tension for you right now is you don't want to wait because you really love this bookkeeping and you get this day job you want to get rid of here's the problem you're not ready your day job's going to fund the dream job go build the side business build it get

the doc get the boat closer to the dock don't be jumping in the water thinking you're hitting the boat the boat's way out there still yeah you need to get it up closer so you can land in the boat when you jump please please do that that puts this hour of the ramsay show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace

and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramsi show.com thanks for listening

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you

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## 179. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 25, 2023)


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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Dr John delone Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author and host of the Dr John deloney show on the Ramsey networks is my

co-host today we talk about your life

and he does as well including relationships and boundaries and family and money and oh we're going to do it all today and we're going to talk about you right in front of you the phone number is 88255 225 the advice is free and some

say it's worth what you pay for itle

8825 5225 one week from yesterday John's new

book hits and that means you've got just

a couple of days to get the buying a

nonanxious life book building building a

buy buying the building i' like to buy

one buying the book building a non- anxious life I'm trying to get all these in one sentence here it's it's running on and so there we go the book is coming

out and if you buy it on a pre-sale you

get $75 in free bonus items including

the ebook the audio book and one of John's talks uh instant access to that

smoke fire and freedom that he did at

one of our smart conferences so jump in

and get all of that before the book actually comes out next Tuesday you

don't want to miss this and um we are

seeing record numbers of these books come out I was just in a marketing meeting this morning here and it's uh

the number of you that are uh thinking

that he may have something to say intelligent about this subject is amazing because he does uh and the good

news about this it's not a psychology book that uh will put you to sleep it's

actually on the Shelf where everyone can reach it yeah that's important for me to

um you know we've we've got a world now

where Stanford Medical School professors are able just to crank out a podcast and talk to each other some really high level stuff some amazing insights into the human mind and I often leave some of

those exchanges like thinking two things wow that's amazing and all right what do I need to do right now right so and so

this book is I handed it to my my 13-year-old and said can you read this go through it and he read it and he said

Dad I'll give you two stars and then he

then he laugh that's brutal um but it's designed for everybody to be able to access it and read it and then to more importantly Implement a plan on how to make your life better because um anxiety

is not the problem as it turns out it's

the alarm saying there's a problem right

and that problem might be that your body is scann the environment recognized you're lonely it might be that you have

tied yourself to a bank and they're telling you what what to do tomorrow it might be that your marriage is falling apart it might be that you've been

trying to hold up the universe all by yourself for a long long time and um

there's several things that will set your alarm off and um we have an entire

world designed around the idea that the

problem's over there the problems over there the problems over there and I'm challenging people to go look in the mirror and say what can I do right now in my home or with my family with my community and start making these things better right now yeah wow wow good stuff

folks check it out go to Ramsey solutions.com and get it while it's hot

building a non-anxious life $20 it's a

deal on a book today I was was looking

at some uh data the other day um our

publishing guys were bringing me the average hardback book right now in America is $32 really yeah wow I didn't

realize it had slipped up we haven't raised our prices enough and well we

haven't our cost of goods has gone up like 40% because paper's gone way up yeah and uh and we haven't raised our prices enough and that's why I was in that meeting they're trying to show me like you're we're being doofuses and so

we're going to fix that but uh not right

now right now you can get this for $20

so that's pretty cool not 32 if there

was coming out of another publisher out of New York it'd be 32 right now that

that's what the deal is that's the average price right now of a hardback advice book uh so check it out the phone

number here is 88255 225 Autumn is in Denver hi Autumn

welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave and

John how are you doing today better than we deserve what's up so my husband and I have quite the

conundrum we've been together for 15

years uh married for almost 13 of those

we love each very much and we'd love to stay married

but we feel like we've tried everything when it comes to managing our finances and we just can't seem to agree the last

step that we have not tried is divorcing

our finances so I'm calling to ask if we

should divorce our

finances what would that get

you well let me give you a little bit

more background so we met at 21 and 24

respectively and had equal amounts of student loan debt so we both had about 20,000 each so we decided that easiest

thing to do would be combine our finances We Were Young we didn't have

any assets so it just made sense so

however we both come from very different financial backgrounds and I tend to be

on the offense and he tends to be on the defense and we both feel like we're

pulling each other and dragging each other Along on a path financially that

we don't want to be on he was pretty

steeped in fire the financial Independence retire early movement and would prefer to spend less and retire very early uh he's 39 I'm 36 for

perspective uh he'd like to be retired tomorrow if he could and I prefer a slower burn I'd rather make smart decisions found Investments and work harder and earn more to achieve our goals and Lead maybe a more comfortable

lifestyle so if he retired today what

would he do with the rest of his life well the things that he enjoys he'd

probably still make money but that's

always the question that I have asked he's built a life he doesn't

enjoy not necessarily he just doesn't

like to work

so let me just cut to it this ends in Ash Autumn because y'all aren't dealing with the core issue the core issue is

you're trying to live two independent

lives next to each other in the same

bed and until you decide on we want our

life to look like this and we're going to reverse engineer it starting today to

build it together you're going to be

like Jim Halpert and Michael Scott

you're going to be co-managers of this thing and then eventually it falls

completely

apart well we've made it work for the 15

years you know that we abely have and I

had a 1994 uh F-150 that I duct taped

and glued together and made work for a lot longer than it should

have so you're saying there's not a healthy way to divorce our finances and

stay married and I'm G to tell you the the further along you go trying to

pretend that what what John's saying is was when you agree on your spending and

saving goals you've agreed on your life

on your life and your values and you're

not in agreement on those things you don't have a husband then you have a

roommate so we actually come up with a a

yearly budget an annual budget we do a p

if you want to do it go do it you call

Nast us we're not talking about budgets

we're talking about your budget reflects unified

values and you don't have that you have

two independent people trying to live in independent lives and call it something that it's not okay so you haven't seen I mean I

know there's other people out there that have have separated their finances and say it was the best thing you know because oh Lord Jesus they they can

knock your lights out you called me and asked me they can say everything that they want great great what I'm telling

you is this isn't about money hear me

say that it's not about your money it's not about your finances one of the key things we learned in studying 10,000 millionaires was none of them said I

drug my spouse into this Kicking and

Screaming almost all of them said I had

a unified plan with my spouse that

caused us to be able to achieve these goals you are dreaming this is not going

to happen it's bad relationally it's bad

mathematically it's bad financially

you're wrong don't do it this is the

ramsy

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[Music]

Ramsey

Dr John deloney Ramsey personality is my

co-host today John in quotes that's not

his real name in other words from

Louisville Kentucky not his real place

in quotes big secret call coming in so

John what's your question yes sir um

well about about two years ago I I won

one of those multi-state lottery

drawings with a group of co-workers and

uh I haven't told anyone uh besides my

wife and besides one sibling uh no one

knows and my my question for you um

after taxes it was about $22

million holy crap wow holy crap is the

of the century yeah how old are you it

was it was a lot uh I'm I'm edging up on

uh about 50 years old okay okay so and

so you haven't told anyone and I've got

some guesses but uh

why uh well the first thing I did when

when I found out that I won was was research and it said you know that you

read all those one in five people lose

their uh lottery winnings or go bankrupt

within 10 years and one of the things they all said was you tell too many people and you get too many people at your door asking for this that and the other thing asking for handouts and

expecting you to pay for everything so

my wife and I made a conscious decision just to kind of keep it under RS and

it's kind of we we've kept keeping it under wraps um we haven't even told our

two teenage children M and now I know

that sounds strange um but we just don't

want them to grow up uh to be waiters

you know waiting for us to die so they can get our money you

know that's fantastic man yeah I love it

dad's been eating little rat poison lately I probably hey I honestly uh

I I'll spend the rest of the day

imagining I'm you because this sounds just like a fun thing to think about um I don't think I would tell my teenage kids either no I'm okay with that no I

there I I I want them to go figure out

what they want to do in life and get

going somebody and then I'll and then I'll let them know yeah I'm not I'm not going to keep it from them forever but like you know our parents and stuff we haven't told any of them um we had we

had another incident about a month after

we won the lottery um incident I I don't

want to call it my wife's great uncle passed away

shortly thereafter and he didn't have any kids and he was never married and he

left most of his inheritance to my wife

and her siblings so we've been able to

use that as like our cover story for

when we help people like I bought my mom a roof I know really really nice of me

yeah but how you know when she says how

can you afford this I just say oh it's great Uncle Bob's money mom he want he wanted us to do this or you know Uncle

Bob's money at least twox now that's

great yeah and you can get you can get a

have you got a decent car I you're going to love me Dave U my

house was paid off before I won this my

wife and I really have no desire to move

good uh we had just paid cash for two

Toyotas before we uh before we won this

and we still have them we're not looking to upgrade anything because they're perfectly fine cars so okay we uh we we

are you still working are you still working I am still I am still working

that ridiculous no it's not no actually

that's why I'm there because I kind of like my job good for you I think you should keep working yeah it's going to

make you a better employee because when have you gotten some great investment advice I have yes good I have I have a

team as you can imagine okay with you

need a you need a team yeah it's not a

huge team it's just it's a group and they're they're they're doing well so far doing good job good okay I like everything you're doing um and it's not

it's not anyone else's business right that's what I hope and um

I don't think you're being like a Hermit

in a cave weird uniom weird or something

like that I think you're just being wise

because what you've what you've

discerned is that some of the people in

your life could not handle the

equation correct that is an a Very uh

good assumption on your part yeah and

and so you're doing them a favor by not putting the strain on them including

teenagers so the only thing I can get

close to is is that um by the time my

kids were teenagers we had begun

building substantial wealth we had recovered from the

bankruptcy Rachel was born so by the

time Rachel's 16 it's you know 17 years

since the bankruptcy and we had you know I was a multi-millionaire again okay we

could buy whatever car we wanted to buy we could go on whatever vacation we wanted to go on and it wouldn't affect us we had good money okay uh but the

kids had no idea and our kids had a

double problem one is their dad's in the

spotlight and everybody knows us right

because we're known in the community um

and talks about money no duh a and if

they had that and they knew that we had

millions of dollarss as a teenager I

don't think they could have processed it so they did not know they knew we were

okay with money they knew we live the

principles that we teach and we made

them live the principles that we teach

but they did not know X number of

dollars was the net worth right I only

disclosed that to them after they graduated from college and I involved

their spouses because by that time two

of them were married and so I sat down

with three of my kids and two spouses

five of them and we started unpacking

what our estate plan looks like because they're adults at that point and I told

them up front I said listen here's the deal we don't own anything at our house

we're people of Faith so God owns a

bunch of stuff he's asked us to manage

more than you know and you're getting

ready to know now and you get to decide

how you're going to react to that are you going to react and continue to be productive and generous people or are

you going to be in using your words and I'll never forget it a waiter right uh

because if you're a waiter you're not going to get access to any of this we're going to take it away from you because

God wants you to be productive he wants you to be whole he wants you to be excellent in the marketplace and he doesn't want this to destroy you he wants you to have the opportunity to serve a lot of people with this wealth

including my grandkids to come and so as

for me in my house we serve the Lord and

it's not our money it's his we're managing it for him and someday you will

take over the management but you will not become the owner if you think you're

the owner you won't get to take over the management and we that's how I unpacked it and then when I unpacked it I was

really pleased that they weren't Freaks

and they've continued to live really good adult lives and it it's not ruined

to them that their dad has you know Dad

and Mom have a bunch of money that they manage you know so uh all that so I

think you could start to build some lessons into your teenagers now so that

in five years when you have that conversation they're ready to shoulder

the weight of it what do you think John

all right yeah I think you're going live

by example and I think you have a pretty

remarkable opportunity

to take your kids out when you are

having them out to dinner and

noticing a waiter that's struggling and call the waiter over and be really kind and then show your kids let's leave a huge tip you want to do that and it

might be a hundred bucks which is nothing of of what you got in the bank

but it's it's going to be a million dollars to a teenager right and you can

slowly plant the seeds of this is what

generosity looks like and when they it's

it's kind of like those movies you get to the end and it like the six sense right and it goes and you realize oh no

I missed the whole story and now I have the whole whole story one day when you sit down and say hey I'm uh you know

that school that I paid for and you know you and your wife are about to buy house I'm going to pay for your mortgage

and here's actually what we're sitting on and here's I I like who I'm honored

by who you have become they're going to

go oh man I picked up all these lessons

from my mom and my dad they're also going to learn that money isn't what makes it isn't your identity your

identity isn't being a great dad it's a guy who still got up and went to work it's a guy who still kept the same Toyota that he'd already paid with cash before like you're doing everything so

right so healthy it's amazing Health

yeah man good for you if you were if you

were hiding this cuz you were freaking and you were weird I would call I would

I would call you out on it you're wise you're wise I think in this case you're

wise my my sister called me the other

day and said what was your big splurge and my answer was patio furniture I'm

not a big flashy guy I I I don't well I

I I think you need to increase gradually

the enjoyment of this money not to not not in the name of the

secret not in the name of exposing the

secret but you need to increase the enjoyment and you need to increase your generosity Factor systematically you

need to say all right this year we're going to spend $400,000 on this or that

create some neat memories with your kids yeah do do some things intentionally with this without just kind of roll

rolling up an extra million bucks into the budget this year you don't have to do that although you've got it but um

yeah wow congratulations brother it's a very good healthy view this is the

Ramsey

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apply thanks for joining us America we're so glad you're here Cole and Abby are with

us in the lobby of ramsy Solutions on

the debt free stage hey guys how are you

great excellent happy to be here honored to have you where do you live uh we live in Franklin Wisconsin which is about 15 minutes south of Milwaukee Milwaukee

Wisconsin I love it very welcome to Nashville thank you good to have you

guys and how much debt have you two paid

off we paid off

$15,999 I love it how long did this take

34 months good for you and your range of

income during that time we started at 134 and ended at 173 very cool what do

youall do for a living I'm an occupational therapist okay and I'm a

production manager at a cpg company okay

very cool good for you guys wow what

kind of debt was the 196,000 mostly student loans yeah we had

about 10 in credit cards about 23 in car

debt and the rest of it almost

$159,000 in student loan debt

wow how ironic that this Sunday student

loan payments start back but not for you

no wayoo we know a lot of people that

didn't pay any during the forbearance I

think I can count on one hand including us the number of people that continued to pay and hammered out yeah we do too

why did you do that because I I we

sitting around here obviously we're we're talking shop it's like just math

get people to do what you did why did you do it why did you do it all your friends didn't do it the government said we got you and you knew they didn't like why did y'all keep paying yeah we're uh in our 30s we're old enough to know uh you can't wait on the government uh but

the other thing is that we wanted to set

ourselves up for our future right someone bought us Financial Peace University for our wedding and we sat down and talked about our wise um our

baby girl we have now two months 3 years ago when we started you know she wasn't in the picture but we knew one day she would and we didn't want to try to be

Buy house and buying cars with cash and

funding her College while having the student loan debt hang over our head and

me the nerd I did the math with the interest before the forbearance it would have been $1,000 a month for 21 years

for us to pay off the student loan debt and that's not something either of us wanted to sign up for

wow so how long y'all been married three

years this past June okay so you've been doing this the whole time you've been married yeah we got married in June and

then because of Co we had like our reception in September so it was in that

uh September reception we' already been married for 4 months when we got Financial Peace University okay so somebody gave you that as a gift for your wedding Y and then you you went to

the class yeah it was virtual right yeah

but yes we did the class and um we I've

been listening to you for years before that and we were davish and this is how dumb I was Dave I thought that's a really good plan for other people yeah

not for us and even going into the class

we thought well maybe we'll do it maybe

we won't after the first lesson or two

we were all in we figured if we're going to do it we got to do it all the way 34

months later here we are we're on to three we're down with three now we're on to 3B so we're excited for what's next even taking it virtually it sucked you into the Vortex oh yes it did I love it

well we're honored man congratulations you guys what did your friends say when you told them you're paying on your loans and they they roll their eyes at you yeah they did they give it to you pretty good oh yeah um why would you do

that the same thing with the credit cards um what about the miles what about

the points um you can use that money for other things we just I don't know we

were just together in it the whole way and that was a surprising piece actually is how many people gave us schlack for

it um for having this be our plan so

that did that give you energy like I'll show you yeah I I heard so many times

people say oh me and my wife are dead free well except for our cars you'll always have a car payment and we looked at them and said then you're not debt free uh we've heard you'll always have a

student loan and I look at him and say you will always have a student loan we will not always have a student loan uh so it's very motivating yeah and now you get to do Toby Keith How You Like Me Now

that's right that's right I like it yeah

you should throw a party on October 1st just aay like I'll I'll get everybody

dinner cuz I know it's going to be a hard hard night for my friend that's right we got no we got no payment so we

can afford we're having a celebration you guys are having a funeral guys that

uh we're hating on you that's right I

love it yeah just rub a little salt in the wound that'd be great good for you guys man I'm so proud of you thank you so who was cheering you on who were your

cheerleaders a lot of our family obviously my mother's side of the family was the one who gifted us FPU so they

were huge in that um some of our friends

actually introduced us to you as well

and kind of kept along with us on the journey that's cool yeah okay um yeah

that's about it our good friends uh Britney and Sam I want to give them a shout out because before we did this we'd always go out on the town going out to eat spending lots of money we told them hey we're going to do this FPU thing so we're not going out to eat anymore and they said that's great you guys just come on over here we'll grill out we'll do things at the house that are free they were very very supportive

like that that's a cool cool that's a cool group of friends right there yeah

and actually you have a better time doing that than you do going to R oh yes yeah we had more yeah more fun yeah yeah

way to go guys so proud of y'all well

well done well done now what do you tell

people the key to getting out of debt you pay off

$196,000 in 34 months it's not a theory

you freaking did it m anyone can do it

on paper right it's a lot harder to do in reality yeah um I always say the hardest part is starting the first two three months when you're learning to budget and at the end of the month you have this money it's it stinks to send it off to Navy in or Toyota financial or

whoever but for us after those first 2 3

4 months it became such a routine and such a habit it honestly went by really

quick just because we were like a well-oiled machine once we got in the monthly routine of budgeting and paying off it became exciting actually how much money are we going to pay off how much how much are we going to be able to fill in on our de turn into a game it's a

mental game like where where else can we cut where else can we increase income

yeah yeah and every month we're like yeah we're 150 bucks under budget let's

go like it's not that much but it's so exciting um throw it at it throw y are

almost too unified did yall ever have a fight we don't fight about money no no

no this um we were on the same page pretty much before FPU but this really solidified not just money but just all

aspects of our marriage I think yeah

what was the hardest

part I think getting started like Cole

said that is hard um but I also was

surprised I think I was disappointed by people's reactions when we would tell them that we were doing this saying no telling each other no for things was hard as well but just the reactions that

we would get this was such like an exciting thing for us to start on and so

many people were doubtful or like that's

not going to last yeah um so that was

kind of hard to kind of hear that from people well you kind of figure out who your friends are yes you know it's like okay you are

eore oh it's bad it's so bad you're

never going to make it you're always going to have a car oh now I know who e or is I always wondered who he is yeah

that's it so yeah good for you guys very

very well done hey we've got the live and give bundle for you that's the box

that has all the goodies in it for you to give away and live baby steps

Millionaire's book which is your next step for sure The Total Money Makeover

book to give away maybe one of those doubters or maybe one that needs to get moving same thing Financial Peace University membership for you to give

away and all of that's our gift to you to say thanks for coming down all right

are we putting uh little baby in she's

ch right now but we can no you don't

have to I just ask that's that's a sacred moment let it let it ride let it ride if she if she's chill I'm good I

don't care I just didn't want you to I don't want to lose you the opportunity oh here she comes we'll just we'll leave her in her little seat here all right that's perfect yeah what's her name Presley Presley all right Presley you

have no idea that your parents are heroes they have changed your family tree little girl yeah that's how old

Rachel was when I F bankruptcy so you

guys you guys are in a great place I'm so proud of y'all congratulations thank you very good all right Cole and Abby

Presley hold your little ears all right

196,000 paid off in 34 months making 134

to 173 count it down let's hear a

debt-free Scream 3 2 1 we're dead

free

yeah that's how that's

done ah I don't even think Presley woke

up that's pretty good I mean I think

she's used to her dad being that intense around the house so it's all right it's all good he's yelling at football too

that's exactly right he's more of a spreadsheet Yeller but it's cool he still y loves works it works man I'll tell you

what if the first 34 months of your marriage you can learn to uh align

yourselves together on goals you set

yourselves up to fight any battle to win

any game that you run into after that

don't you well it reminds us of that call we took earlier this is what we were talking about this is exactly talking about you decide where you're going getting there becomes just a it's

a totally different trajectory yep you're not riding side by side you're riding in the same car going to the same place building the same life together

this is the ramsy [Music]

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budget [Music]

Dr John delone Ramsey personality number

one bestselling author and host of the Dr John delone show is my co-host today

Travis is with us in Philadelphia hi

Travis welcome to the Ramsey Show

hello Dave how you doing better than I

deserve what's up uh Dave I've been praying and this is

actually blessing speaking to you um

what's going on in my life around that Dave is that me and my wife we at a Crossroads we have two small children

we've been trying to do the baby steps for almost eight months now it's it's

not working we're not we're not getting past baby step one it's always some kind

of emergency things are happening that

and we're just not getting there um but

what we the crosss we're at right now is that um I did get a we have a lot of

debt you have about $40,000 in auto

loans um about 10,000 student debt

student loan debt and 20,000 like credit

cards I have an offer to get a new job

that's gonna pay I pay I make about 37,000 now I got a job offer about like

54,000 it's not the best job in the

world just working a correctional offic so it's something I'm not too fond of but I'll do it uh for the money to get

out of debt but also we have a lot of

equity in our home uh our home is worth

about maybe upwards about 380,000 we

have about 230,000 left on the mortgage

and we can sell and we can get that

Equity wae you owe you owe 230 and it's

worth 280 380 no uh 38080 380 oh okay

yeah about 380 uh the real estate agent say we should go uh probably should price it at like 410 because it's things

are selling pretty fast in my area so so

you've got $150,000 you might have come

into if you did that if we did that

correct and where would you

live I live in Pennsylvania now we

moveed to I have a job offer in November

for the city of Dallas um for the police

department in Dallas and um that's

that's where we moved to we moved to Dallas we have a have a good friend of mine that lives out there he's been

working out there for about a year now and he's been trying to get me to come out there yeah and so we can move to you have a solid written job offer not a

vague promise from a friend no I um I

have a solid written job offer in November I will start the academy for the police department out there I got it

and um okay so you were planning on

moving

anyway why would you ask me if you

should sell your house of course you're

going to sell your house you're moving to Dallas right but the reason why I I say

that because um like I said I have two small children I'm just at a crossroad I don't know if that's the best you know I

don't know how safe Dallas is I I have a

friend he said is is pretty good but you

know how safe Dallas is compared to

Philadelphia well I'm not I'm not actually in Philly I'm about 90 minutes away from it uh in the Pocono let me say it this way my dad was a homicide detective A Beat cop and then a homicide

detective for uh almost two decades in

Houston and he raised me and my two

siblings and I wouldn't trade my

childhood for anything okay okay if you continue to

always look over the edge what if what

if what if what if in a weird way you're

going to create those scenarios in your

life right what would you pay what would

you be paid if you went to

Dallas um started salary for off out

there about 60 66,000 that's the solid

offer they gave you in writing correct and then you get out of

the academy and then what does it go

to um that that I don't know but I know

going into the academy about 66 okay

okay so you're almost going to double your income you're going to sell your house move to Dallas and be debt free and you've got no state income tax yeah

this is kind of a no-brainer Travis

you'll have no debt you need to put the house on the market and go to Dallas and you rent for a year in Dallas figure out what's the best place for schools and

for that's going to fit your family's lifestyle and what y'all are comfortable with and then you're going to put an off front house

yeah you're right it makes sense I was

just afraid of you know just moving to a bigger city uh the crime the the you

know just just everything just wouldn't

be the best hey let me tell you something turn the news off you literally have a friend on the

ground who lives there and works there and he says I love my friend I love you enough you should come join me and you're like uh I don't know because I watch new your friend wouldn't tell you come down here and get your children killed yeah you're right you're right okay so

move to Dallas Dallas is not a crime

ridden city it has crime every city has

crime but it's not crime ridden it's not

infested or something I don't this is an

IL an ill and you want to be a cop I was

going to say I mean this is kind of like part of part of your there's a little crime you wouldn't need a job part part

of the academy is going to be pushing

real hard to see risk ahead and go

anyway because that's what that's what police officers do when the rest of us are running they go in and so you're

going to have to you're going to have to wash that part out of you man because this is the job the the last thing I

want you to do though is when you clean

all this up you you guys have to get on a budget and you have to quit freaking spending money you don't have to buy

cars you can't afford in the future and

on these stupid butt credit cards so you

all have not been living on less than

you make you bought cars you couldn't afford you bought other crap you couldn't afford that's how these credit cards got there so when you clean all this up if you make 66 and you go to

spending 75 and you go upgrade your

dadgum cars and go back in debt well

then I'm going to come kick your butt all right no you're not doing that all

right you're going to live on less than you make you're going to clean this m mess up this is your one time good time

reset you don't get to do these resets

very often yes yes so take advantage of

it dude jump online and get every dollar

the budgeting app you and your wife start budgeting get the house on the market find go to ramsy Solutions and.com and get get one of the real estate agents that are Ramsey trusted and get your house on the market dad gum

man it's October you got to move in a month get your button gear let's go

let's go let's go game on game on let's

you house ought to be on the market this weekend you need to you need to go it's

time and you're going to be one of those guys that's like well I need to clean it I need to make sure that listen loading up the truck and heading to Beverly baby let's go sell the house sell the house

we're going let's go the gutters are how the gutters are sell the house that's it

you know get out there and clean it up this weekend get those kids and gear trim the bushes mulch them let's go game

on game on I'm hearing this more and

more I hear this on my show with some regularity and I think it's important to

Just note there's so many places to get

information these days that it does

overwhelm the Mind well and here's the

problem half of what is on the Internet

it's garbage is not even true 75% it's

not real it's not true I pulled up a website yesterday with Ken and is on the a mhm uh that's got Dave Ramsey's exotic

car collection and my picture and all of

the cars that I own only I don't own any

of them they're fabulous cars I wished I

did and I own a few nice cars it' been

cool if he'd put them on there but no

he's got all this wonderful vehicles on there that I don't own that website does

not exist for me daude I I'm just like

Abraham Lincoln said everything on the internet is true I mean come on you know

oh my gosh people yeah you just got you got to quit just feeding garbage into your brain and then cuz you know well I

read an article that said John deloney

or Dave Ramsey was this or that well you

can write an article on anything it doesn't make it true people just make up

crap well that's why you know cuz they're mad or their feelings are hurt

why it's important to have incredible trustworthy men and women in your life

that you can call and say hey is this a good deal and like man you're going to love this job it's going to be great for you and your family move on down here yeah then that what that I I don't know

of a better endorsement that guy doing

that for Travis is a thousand out of a

thousand Travis reading about something

on the internet right is a thousand out of a thousand the other direction you know there there's crime

in Dallas well no of course there did that I mean you know it's everywhere but

um at least in Dallas there's no anyway

yeah it's there's yeah do it Texas yeah

do it make Texas great again yeah let's

go game on there's so many places I could go

with that in a minute and a half and I'm not going to all right open phones here

atle 8825 5225 I should increase the

hate level around here I don't I don't do that I think we're I think we are good you think we got think the hate level is high enough I think it is as high as it needs to be okay I think we

should increase the love okay let's

increase the love okay well that that's

harder it is harder it is

harder sell your house man let's go d

Travis get that house on the market get moved man send us a photo of you in your uniform when you get out of the academy we'll be rooting for you yeah you're on our team man we love you keep it up get

after it get after it get after it that

puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the

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hey it's Dr John deloney if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the ramsy way just go to Ramsey solutions.com today to sign up for our

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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the Ramsey show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thanks for joining us America we're glad you're here open phones at 88255 225 Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author and host of the Dr John deloney

show on the Ramsey networks is my

co-host today his new build new life

building a non New Life his new book

building a non-anxious life comes out in

under one week this coming Tuesday if

you want to get a great deal on it it's only $20 right now and it includes on

pre-sale if you do it before Tuesday $75

worth of extra goodies so go check it

out the book will help you work through

and uh deal with properly the preparation so when anxiety comes with

the six daily choices you've made not if

but when it comes you will know how to deal with it uh so pick it up at ramsy

solutions.com get started Lynn is H

gonna start this hour off in Philadelphia hi Lynn welcome to the Ramsey Show hey guys it's such an honor to

speak to you thanks for taking my call

sure what's up uh I actually have a

two-part question um not sure if I can

get to both of them but my first

question um is really starting to

something's really starting to get to me it's affecting my family and my marriage

um my husband is taking

responsibility um for his parents my

in-laws finances he's has created them a budget

he's paying their bills for them he's um

going as far as controlling their

expenses uh I'm not sure this is healthy

and it's causing friction is he using

their money or your money he's using

their money okay so it's not costing you

anything how old are they how old are

they um they are in their late 70s okay

and why is this not healthy do they need

help um let's just say that them doing

it on their own they haven't been doing

very well themselves MH um and I think

my husband is just afraid of you know

them overspending

and yeah but you you said you said this

is not healthy and it's driving you crazy so why is it not healthy crazy why

is it not healthy and why is it driving you crazy I don't think it's healthy

because he's taking over and doing it

himself um we don't agree with it so

he's causing friction with

us um and it's not that they're not able

to do it it's kind of like he wants to

do it for them because he thinks he'll

do it better could it be that he knows

for 79 years I've watched my parents

fail at this and they're getting really close to falling off a financial cliff

that as my as their son I'm going to

feel some sort of obligation to help out with and I can I can stop them from driving off the edge is it that it is uh

100 100% that which I'm okay with but

he's kind of gone a little too far not just giving

them advice but just basically there's

something else deeper why don't you do you not like them I love them they are my second

parents I lost my parents at a young age

when we just uh we've been married for 25 years so they've become my second

parents um so what's what's the thorn in

your side on this you know I think it's

that I I think you know partly it's that

they can't do it themselves okay so are

you mad at them or him for

that I think I'm mad at them okay so

let's make sure the anger in the right direction all right

and and

I probably part of me is just kind of

bombed that the time that we should be

spending together on our own finances is

kind of going toward them all right that's a totally different

conversation one of those conversations

gets wrapped up and you're and you are pressing your husband up against a wall saying it's me or them and he's looking

and saying I love you both I dedicated

my life to you I said I do to you you're my wife and I'm watching my parents sliding off the edge the real question you're asking is

I'm really frustrated that two grown

people who I love haven't and won't and

can't seem to figure out how to take care of their money and my husband is

the kind of man who steps in that Gap

but I don't want that to come at the expense of our marriage and our relationship and our time together planning for our future and so husband

can we spend time together focusing on our finances that's separate then you

shouldn't be doing that with them you see what I'm saying I do one of those

makes him have to wall up and pick and

the other says is makes calls is a

challenge are you going to be are you going to be um my partner in this deal

and are you going to continue to dream with me on what our house looks like so

you voiced to him that you're

frustrated I have he knows I'm he knows

I'm not a fan of the whole situation okay so I let me tell you what I think I heard you say and if I was wrong tell me

okay okay I think I heard you say I'm

frustrated because these two grown-ups

won't be grown-ups I love them but I

hate irresponsibility and I hate the way that

they are just so lame when they don't

have to be and that aggravates me and

I'm also aggravated because you're taking time away from us that I really

need to have some things done over here on our finances before you go over

there uh you pretty much nailed it okay

why don't you say that back to him that

way I I think that's a really good idea

and can I throw one twist in there that's going to be hard for you to say

sure

can you say I am proud that you're the

kind of man that um sees his mom and dad in

need and however frustrating it is you're willing to step in that Gap yes that's super important I do

agree you are proud of his character you just you you just hate it that they're being so lame and I gotta tell you I

kind of agree with you yeah it's super

frustrating I'm aggravated at both of them they're perfectly able-bodied and able-minded to do this and they're just too trifling to do it right you're yeah

yeah agates that aggravates people that

are responsible right and you know that

that's I I agree with your aggravation

um I just don't think that uh your aggravation is going to fix

it yeah because you're not you're being

aggravated is not going to make them suddenly responsible correct and so they're

either going to run in the ditch as John said or over the edge as John said um or

your husband's probably going to do what he's doing because you know they may

have seven years they might have 10 and

um you know and they're either going to

be a burden to you all financially cuz

they completely wreck the rest of their

lives here or your husband's going to do

this cuz they the chances of these people changing their habits the old dog new tricks at this stage probably pretty low is that fair yes and can he go too

far can he say hey I'm going to help y'all not fall off the edge and suddenly become their mommy and daddy all in one

yes yeah and it's okay to call call that

out call them out on that yeah but yeah

sounds like you got a good man stuck in a weird situation and it's frustrating frustrating let's work towards the solution you have a valid frustration

with their irresponsibility but not a good

solution he's got a better solution this

is the Ramsey [Music]

Show

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Dr John delone Ramsey personality my

co-host today open phones atle

88255 225 Lauren is in Chicago hey

Lauren welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi thank you for all the work you

guys do for um American people I um have

been listening for a couple months um to

a lot of the different shows and my husband and I I'm learning a a

little and we are okay we've made um you

know some good decisions and some bad decisions based on the ramcy way but

right now we're looking at wanting to

pay our house off we don't have any other debt and how do people do that

like is it okay to just set aside the

money and then pay it off in one lump

sum or what is what's the ramsy weers or

recommendation or a book no it do take a

book it's just early and often every

month send as much towards the house

payment as you can

send okay and what happens is it lowers

your balance so the next month more of

your regular payment will go towards

principal than it than it would have if

you hadn't let's say you sent $110,000

okay well you no longer have to pay interest on that $10,000 so the in the

monthly interest on that $10,000 less will be low on the balance

will be lower than uh than it was by

$10,000 you follow

me I do I I understand that um I guess

like my husband and I and I agree with it completely that's what I've learned

and understand however my husband's more

comfortable with having a um lump suum

available just in case um anything

happens with the house any emergency

yeah before you start paying your house do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of

expenses um we have an emergency we have

about 160,000 um saved and then we have in

okay your husband's theory is ludicrous

what do you what is he expecting kind what kind of what do you think is GNA happen Armageddon your cash won't be good yes

there will not be ATMs during

Armageddon this is so funny thank you

for the laugh yeah that's no no no what

what do you owe on your

home uh we just I'm so grateful to God

we uh we we lived in like a thousand fo

how much you ow your home oh six uh 633

I'm sorry 633 we just what I would do if

I woke up in your shoes is I would take

three to six months of expenses given that your husband likes to have a little bit more let's say six months of what's

your household income 250 okay all right so let's be super

generous okay set 100,000 aside

that's more than you need that's more than 6 months okay and call that your

emergency fund it's a ridiculous emergency fund it's set 100,000 side

everything above 100,000 is cray cray it

needs to be going on the house it's just there you're not going

to have $100,000

emergencies can I ask another dumb

question no not dumb these AR dumb

questions these are great questions do you ever recommend if like you have

Investments do you ever recommend taking those out and putting it towards the house always no always unless they're in

re unless they're in retirement

account okay you want to know why single

stock sell them you want to know

why why because when we studied the

largest study of millionaires ever done in North America over 10,000 of them we

never found them saying we invested

instead of paying off our home and

that's how we became millionaires none

of them say that

okay almost all of them followed the

model of a steady reasonable amount of

investing like in their retirement

accounts then paid off the home and then

increased their investing when the home

was paid off and so the typical person

with say a million5 net worth their

first $1.5 million of net worth had A5

or $600,000 paid for home and about a

million dollar in their 401K but the number of them that said oh

we never pay off our house instead we

invested more and more and more and kept

the house debt was almost zero it was

less than 10% thank you that's helpful okay so the

data says that the best and the fastest

way to build wealth is get the house paid off while steadily investing about

15% of your income above an emergency

fund of 3 to six months of expenses so

if you guys making 250 have squirel over

in an investment a half million dollars

I'm going to tell you get this house paid off next 12 months and take that

money in there now not taking out 401K

money but I'm talking about you've just

got a you know you've got a brokerage account of some kind over here with a half million dollar sitting in it take that and the 60 above the 100 and throw

it at the thing let's get this house paid off CU I got to tell you if I ever

get your husband to pay off his house he

will think he's a genius and he'll never

ever ever go back back in dead on that

house well and I want to make sure we

point we we touch on this this he's

solving for safety and right now safety

for him is having a bunch of cash yep

and and non-retirement investment that's

right and he's hedging his safety

against all these other things and he's got this big elephant sitting in his living room and you We've joked about

this off air before no one has ever

called the show and said man I'm really

mad at y'all cuz I paid my house off 6

months later Dave Ramsey told me to pay my house on I wish I had my mortgage back I love my mortgage you could you

say it all time you could always go take out a mortgage six months from now if you don't like it right if you don't like having a paid for house but you think you're you think you're solving for safety with all these extracurricular activities try sleeping

in a house that you owe nobody anything

for that's a level of safety that you

didn't know your body could feel until you go do it yeah I'm telling you when when you have let's just talk about

safety okay when we have a fouchy quarantine and the whole freaking Place shuts down

and your house is paid for it feels a

whole lot different inside your physical

body than having the same amount of your

mortgage in a mutual fund because there's a part of your brain that's been there for eternity that says you're

going to lose your house your kids are going to be on the street yeah 100% of foreclosures happen on a house with a mortgage that's right versus being real

frustrated right being annoyed and

frustrated that's different than I can't

breathe right yeah I mean I had uh we

had business stress we had relational

stress uh because of disagreements but

David Sharon Ro is going to be okay over

the covid you know we found out who our friends were who who were all worried

about little CO's jumping on people and all the stuff we de we dealt with all that stuff uh but we didn't

deal during the fouchy quarantine with

the threat of foreclosure right not in

there and so when you're solving for safety that was a good phrase I like that phrase you know you you probably

need to really correctly Define safety

right and get the elephant out of your dead gum living room right which is the living room by the way yeah

ironically it it's and the way we said

it before we had John with two phds to

help us understand it was if your house

is paid for take your shoes off walk through the backyard the grass feels

different you breathe different and um

you work you won't work at a toxic Place

anymore more because you have to you're

not stuck anymore folks and so the

solving for this is you know when I

first started teaching this stuff I thought well if you got rid of a house payment you invested a house payment you can turn that money into a million dollars pretty quick and that's the math part the financial part but there's an

emotional part A Spiritual part A relational part a medical health a

mental health part I you know someday it

it'll be done I I don't know that I'll ever get around to doing it but a study

of the um medical condition and the life

quality of life and longevity of Life of

people who are debt free versus those that aren't there're they're quietly starting to to leak out into the world where people are doing mental health and emotional health and debt and starting to use the coral of data it's it's it's

pretty frightening yeah and I've talked to some doctoral students who interested in doing their dissertations on student

loans and people with debt versus the

mental health of those who don't know anybody anything yeah and if you think about this think about think all of us um um have had the moment in our career

when we think oh man I got to go have a hard conversation with my boss I may not survive this one imagine your wife or

your husband can put your face in their

hands and look at you and say hey we're going to be okay we got plenty of money go tell the truth we plent of money we got no house payment go tell the truth go be you and we don't have any house

payments man like that's a different conversation here we go this is the

Ramsey

Show

[Music]

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[Applause] [Music]

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[Applause] Dr John deloney Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Spencer and Jordan are

with us in the Ramsey Solutions

headquarters Lobby on the debt free

stage hey guys how are you hey pretty

good welcome where do youall live terod

Indiana just I love it very good good to

have you all right how much debt have you two paid we paid off $150,000 we sold our house wow wow how

long did all this take uh well selling

the house took a couple months but uh we lived in the house 3 and 1/2 years and we downsized from 3,000 ft to about

1,200 with family of so

w but hey no mortgage payment so it's uh

worth it hardcore Wow way to sure you

all renting now no we bought it with

cash what we made from our other house so yep oh so you bought a house so you

don't have a mortgage no morgage debt free debt free you sold the house bought

another house with the equity no mortgage of any kind how old are you to

I am 31 32 but in order to do this you

moved into a tiny little place yes sir

and I no regrets I it

okay but and you don't have to be there forever it's a step yes it's a step and

and you're 32 years old and what's this

house worth that you're living in uh 130

135 range I'd say we we actually just

cash flow to remodel on it too so um

okay so so it's it's pretty nice okay

and we can live there for a few years and then move up easy easy easy and uh

so okay again so this whole experien has

really did gone down pretty quick right

yes sir but uh we actually uh grew up in

and and you know Ramsay um uh

foundations right we we have family members who have followed the um bab

steps and passed that on to us um Jordan

actually has a great story with the ttal Money Makeover yeah when I was a junior

in high school my parents saw that I was

not great with money and they were like we'll pay you $20 to read The Total

Money Makeover so great

$20 um it did not stick until I got

married so not a great but no no it was spent probably the next

day but I inherited $13 when we got

married yep pardon that $20 and then uh

yeah big shout out to my mom who's uh followed Dave Ramsey for a long time in those steps and uh all the way through college um we were able to to kind of

cash flow so this this all this stuff was around in your childhood you're kind of financial peace babies in a sense yes

sir okay all right now but once you

decided okay we got this big house we could sell it we could buy another house you did all that within a matter of months yep so really like four months or

something to be de free once you make the call right yep yes sir you have

other debt to pay off too no we paid off

my student loans um when was it a few

years ago M and uh we had a two and a

half threee gap of no loans no no being

debt free and then we bought the house

29 sold it um earlier this spring so so

what lit y'all up what what said like hey let's leave this big nice house where everyone's got their own bathroom and room and let's get out of this mess

yeah you know we just it was a it was it

was a great it was a big beautiful house

and we just were like you know what we

want to change and we knew that that wasn't our forever home um so we were

like why are we paying this big mortgage when we could downsize be completely debt free and then save for what will be

our forever home mhm way to go you guys

very cool what's your household income

right now it's around 110 what do you you all do for a living I stay home and

homeschool our three kids M and I'm

currently in the International Guard working in it and then my civilian jobs

in it as well so wow good for you good

career y are both awesome yeah yeah way to go guys you're Heroes okay congratulations um to all of the young

parents out there who say there's no possible way you could have three beautiful rambunctious little ones uh what is the

oldest one what six seven he's nine nine

okay so you got nine and seven and five

y yes sir you can't possibly have a

family of five in a 12200 foot house

it's awesome how do you make it work bonding no it's a it's a lot of bonding

yeah the boys share bedroom and Remy our

daughter she has her own room and honestly it's probably been a lot harder

for them than it has for us it's a lot less cleaning a lot less maintaining for

us and I think they're getting used to it a lot of times Outdoors but we haven't uh gone through winter yet so

we'll see how cut it is January February

range I had one sibling I grew up in a 1,000 ft home yep so um and um yeah wow

yeah it's amazing when you look I went over there and visited it not long ago it kind of shrunk yeah that's so it's

like going back to your Elementary School at shrunk you know yes yes but I

I think you guys are going to be great I'm so proud of y'all yeah it's not a

longterm play really it's a short-term play it's a it's a sacrifice and we knew

it when we when we bought the house and

we actually um you you think about 1,000 bucks a month going to the bank and it's like

you what could we be doing with this and

knowing that we were going to um buy a a

forever home from a family member um in

the future um we can be saving that and

you know treat this house as a rental for the kids as they go through school

yeah that' be great but no it's a and

with the homeschool stuff so in your all's case you made this with one Fell Swoop you grew up with some of these things around you what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is cuz your story is different um for me it

would just be the budgeting was the hardest part for us I think was just

sitting down and making a budget and I feel like it's gotten even harder now

that we are debt free is sitting down and still maintaining that budget but I

think that that's what I tell people is get on the same page sit down write a

budget do what's best for your family

yeah the discipline and the um the

reminder that it's God's money right be a good Steward of it and the lesson for

the kids and all the way going through the house selling and the house buying

process with them by our sides um a lot

of um OPP well you took a step back so I

I think looking at you from the outside looking in I think your secret was contentment yeah you're willing to be

content with that as a step uh I'm going

to live like no one else so later I can live and give like no one else being counter cultural and knowing that it's

um just it's God's will doing it so we

often tell people don't sell your house to get out of debt cuz you don't you don't go through you don't learn the lessons y'all y'all were debt free for 3 years before you sat down and said let's go do something radical yep yeah very

well done good job you guys very cool

all right bring the kiddos up let's hear their names and ages have they been

practicing any debt-free screams little bit just since we've been here this is Grayson he is nine milin who's seven and

Remington who is five go Remington all

right I think Remington's in charge John

anytime ofan family has their kids come up and they all just stand in a straight line and they're respectful and kind

that's great it's very cool makes me want to be better at being a

parent I love it very good you guys hey

we've got The Total Money Makeover book for you the baby steps millionaires book

that's the next chapter in your story for you and the Financial Peace University membership you can live some of that you can give some of that thanks for coming down here from terot and sharing your inspiring story and your beautiful family you guys are amazing way to go Heroes you're Heroes you took

control those little babies right there their whole lives are changed cuz their mom and dad are grown-ups very well done

Spencer Jordan Grayson milin and Remy I

got to love it from terao 150,000 paid

off in about four months sold their home moved into a smaller one so they added all paid off making 110 count it down

let's hear a debt free scream three two

1 we de

free [Applause] yeah wow

wow fabulous

fabulous in 1963 the average family in

America had a 1,000 square ft one level

home one car that was the average family in

America today the average family in

America has 2.5 cars and 2900 Square ft

you me tell you something wild about that besides just the cost um one of my

PL plans to go down a nerd rabbit hole

is there's some quiet conversations

about families over the last you know

centuries and thousands of years have grown up together you could hear each other breathe you could see each other and that one of the causes of anxiety

may be that everybody from you get into

the bassinet you get your own room and you're on the other side of the house you're on the other side of the house you're upstairs someone's downstairs and you're all on screens everybody's alone and everybody's on screens and there's something about bringing the family back together that's that's kind sounds kind of neat I don't know the data on it kind of regulates everything but it's interesting it's interesting thought regulates their bodies overnight we stuck everybody in their own room on the

other side of the house and I don't know that we're designed for that interesting thing to think about this is the ramsy

[Laughter]

show

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Dr John deloney Ramsey personality open

phones a triple

88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your money Joe Is With Us

in Springfield Hey Joe welcome to the Ramsey Show Dave thank you for taking my call

sure what's up I've been listen to you

often on last couple years it hasn't a lot of things haven't soaked in but the other day you said that nobody should own a new truck truck unless they have a net worth of a million and they're debt

free well I bought a new one earlier

this year and so my question number one is should I sell that truck and downgrade get something a little bit more economical so that I can pay it

off how much do you

ow uh 43 no 42 and some change so 43 what's

your household income 220 210 and you don't have any

money no I have uh I have about 40 in

the bank right

now how long you been making that kind

of

money years you're making good money why

do you not have any

well my wife kind of lives YOLO I kind

of live like hey we might live to be 500

and it's just it's been 15 years of just

kind of we've sat down and we' put budgets together and it just it uh it

doesn't stick on one end and it does on

one and I've just kind of learned to

compromise to keep the marriage happy

and uh but the marriage isn't happy man

I can hear it on you it's frustrating I mean I love her

to death wouldn't trade her for nothing but it's frustrating you know when you have a divided house um you know like I

hate Christmas I hate it um you know we spend $44,000 every

year in Christmas and it's to people and

friends and and every year we are about

it and it just gets me where I just hate Christmas you know because I know we're

just going to blow a bunch of money and we shouldn't and we don't have to you

know you you move on you know you can

either dwell on it or you can just move on and and then and then you borrowed 40,000 on a truck

yeah yes well I I'm a sales guy so I

have to have a truck that's less than three years old and so many miles I get paid 850 a month for my truck allowance

and whether you have a car payment or

not that's right and that's where I

would rather tuck to 850 and throw it on the house we're in a great situation on

the house house is worth about six six

and a quarter we're down to about 270 on

it okay um Joe Joe the the truck the

truck needs to be paid off or it needs to be sold but it's 10% of your

problem okay the problem that's

screaming at me in this conversation is

you make way too much money to be this

broke I agree and you guys have really

got to sit down and address that you're

just you're you're just a quarter no you

haven't you because it's not fixed what do you but what do you do well I think

you need if you can't if you and your wife can't sit down and dream about a future that you're willing to control yourselves for CU you're not controlling

yourselves you're you have no self-control in your household and if

you the two of you can't find a house a

dream in in high definition that the two

of you can agree to that is worth

working towards together and worth not

spending everything we make to cause it to happen then you do need to sit down

with a marriage counselor if that's the

case often High performing High earning folks

sit down and have this conversation as a math problem honey we make this much

money we got to make a

budget no I have one I have an Excel

sheet I can show you I know you

do here's what I'm telling you there's a

different conversation when you sit down with your wife and you hold her hands and you say honey I can't breathe

I'm so scared we make way too much money

I'm working so

hard and I feel like you and I are fulling pulling further and further and

further apart and I love you too much to

be frustrated at you all the time because I know that's hard to live with

and I love you too much for us to

pretend that we're all joyful and happy

once a year at Christmas and we try to

throw money at our friends and family

instead of being a warm safe place for them to come land would you build something different with me that's a different conversation then honey look at my spreadsheet look at this if you just would do this then

we could get out of this crap one of

those she's going to go to her defense and that defense is probably way older

than you and that's probably been there since she was a little kid and then you go to your defense because she starts bombing you back and it's different when

you take ownership and say I want my wife and I want a family that um I want

to unific a unified front here I want a

unified vision of what we're going to do and I'm scared to death I'm going to lose you the iron is is that you think

by acquiescing you're creating peace and

you're not that's the irony the fire is

burning in the basement and it is hot

it's coals yeah and because this it's

eating you up and she can feel that on

you and then she goes about solving that

feeling with the way that her body's been solving those feelings for her whole life spending spending and trying

to make people feel good about themselves and showing people how great she's doing and that's different than y'all two building a life together yeah yeah

and if you guys can't sit down work that through and start to say we need to develop a new vision for our future a

different plan other than just spinning

our Wheels feeling like a rat in a wheel I'm scared I can't do this this is

killing me I cannot live in a situation

where I make a quar million dollars a year and we have nothing that is just

absurd to me my brain can't do it anymore my mind can't do it my psyche my

spirit can't do it anymore so we've got

to develop a plan for the future that we're both willing to work towards and I

want to do that with you let's start fresh fresh a reset not we've got to get

on a budget some but that will lead you

by the way to a budget and it's not a spreadsheet budget it's an every dollar budget but it'll lead you to the two of

you working together to implement the

plan that you have agreed to together

that both of you had a vote in I love

starting those conversations with I'm sorry I'm sorry I've tried to control

you the way I know to control a problem I've tried to solve you I've tried to

fix you I'm sorry let me tell you the

truth I'm scared to death and there's a different there's a different approach there someone can enter into your space

that way instead of uh having to swing

back at you it's tough hope that works

for you brother and then pay that truck off in the next 20 minutes um or couple

months and or sell it one of the two

that's um because it's you know you went

and bought a truck while she went and bought Christmas I think you yeah you showed her I think you spent more so um

there you go and the 850 is coming in

whether you have a truck payment or not so that doesn't justify it our question

of the day is sponsored by neighborly

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find Home Service Experts including Mr

Appliance in your area today's question

comes from Jane in Florida I pay the

bills for my elderly father he has a bad

habit of going to the ATM to withdraw money several times a week A lot of times it leaves me with a balance too low to pay his bills I've had numerous

talks threatened to stop helping etc etc

he apolog apologizes and Promises to do

better then in a few weeks he's right back to the same situation I don't want to be disrespectful to him but is it really it's really stressing me out what do you recommend I do I'm not going to

help you with your bills anymore unless you give me your ATM card yeah I'm

unable to help anymore unless you give me your ATM card I can't I can't participate yeah you you you're you're

making this too hard you're sabotaging

everything I'm trying to do to help you I'm trying to love you and you're clearly you're telling me very clearly you don't want my love and support and help yeah so if you want to give me the ATM card I'll keep doing it if you don't

then I won't yeah it's fine I still love you but I'm not going to I'm not going to spend all of my time resenting how

you're living your life and then you

come to me asking for help I don't want to resent you you're my dad I want to love you so I'm either going to turn this over to you or you're going to hand me your ATM card yeah that's easy yeah I

can fix that and it's not a flex and it's not it's not showing your muscles it's just saying hey I'm choosing to not do this anymore I can't yeah this is this is an absurd dog chasing its tail

keep pulling you out of the pool and you just keep jumping in if you want to stay in there man it's tough I keep getting

you out of the road and you keep running back out there yeah it's tough yeah it's

um it's well it's um it's frustrating

because a it's someone you love and B

they're hurting the themselves eles and

um and see it's so cyclical yeah it's

it's it's circular here it's a dance the

whole thing is circular it's ridiculous yeah Stop Dancing bad Florida twostep

there you go this is the Ramsey

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Dave here you can find all of our shows

with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen

to the entire back catalog of episodes

download the Ramsey Network app in your

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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author host of the Dr John deloney show is my co-host today this hour we're

going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects baby steps

millionaires people have become millionaires we want to talk to real

millionaires you see when I started doing this Radio Show in

1992 over 30 years ago I had this idea

and I still do that if we taught gods

and M's ways of handling money live on

less than you make have a written

plan get out of debt and stay out of

debt steadily invest and

save and be outrageously generous if you

do those five things consistently in

your life that over a period of time you

would become wealthy it's a mathematical fact number

one but number two it's just the fastest

right way to become wealthy and now here

I said 30 plus years later and there's

lots of you have become millionaires

doing this stuff lots of you and if you

did it following the baby steps we call you a baby steps millionaire you do not have to be a baby steps millionaire to be on this show today but you do need to

be a millionaire and for some of you that are new to this let me help you with this a millionaire is an accounting

term it's not a feeling I don't feel

like I have much it doesn't matter what you feel couldn't care less about your feelings this is not a feelings show

that's John's

show H it is uh no one should have that

much money well this is not a moral construct it's not a discussion of wealth inequality although I can go there if you want me to um it it's not

any of that a millionaire is simply an

accounting term it's your net worth well

he's a net worth millionaire that's the only kind of millionaire there is it's a redundant statement okay your network

worth is your what you own minus what you owe assets minus liabilities when

that equals a million dollar regardless

of what the assets are regardless of what the liabilities

are when assets minus liabilities own

versus o equals a million dollars you're

a millionaire and it's not as much money

as it used to be it might not be enough

to do some of the things you want to do but it's more than most people have

there's about 17 millionaire 17 million

millionaires in North America

so they're out there they're all around us I meet them every day when I'm doing

the show every single day when I take a

break during this show at a commercial

break I walk outside and someone comes

up to get their picture taken with me I sign a book or two and I always meet at

least one millionaire every day and they

came by to say hey this is the place

this is where I learned all this stuff this is how it's almost like a a visit

to uh a shrine uh that caused them to be

able to do it and obviously we didn't do it we didn't give them any money we just said you could do it we made you believe you could do it and we showed you how and what the steps are in the Tactical moves with money but there's no magic

pill here and here's the truth it can be done

and we're going to prove it by talking to real millionaires today Blake is with

us in Nashville Blake what's your net

worth my net worth is like5 to $6

million good for you okay give me a

little breakdown by category on that

yeah so um I've got a couple million

dollars in stocks mutual funds um couple

million dollars in uh some a real estate

property uh and then the valuation of uh

the couple businesses is between you

know1 to3 million okay all right in a

business I got about a 100,000 cash hand

so how old are you I am 32 actually be

33 tomorrow wow happy birthday and how

much of this 5 million did you inherit

it uh zero the only thing I inherited is

a common sense and financial sense so

that's a that's one thing I've inherited

but no dude 5 million at 33 is Pretty

stinking impressive from zero yes sir

thank you so what has been your best year income and your worst year income since you've been working the last 13 years or so well I own my own business

um and of course starting off it that

took you know no income 13 years ago um

but my highest year would probably be

last year and did right at seven figures

right at a million and then this year

we're looking at um doing about 60 to

70k a month okay and we're talking about

profit here taxable income yes sir way

to go man what kind of a business have you got uh actually it's a a martial arts

school I I do own some properties too

but um I grew up doing martial arts and

when I was 19 I opened a opened a school

and uh that's been the the rest is history so it's it's been very fortunate

to be able to take a passion and make a

career you know not only changed my life

but those around me as well very cool you have a four-year degree yes I I have a uh degree in

business finance what was your G GR in

2012 um gosh probably

3.6 3.7 something like that okay so you

would say I think if I'm listening to

your story correctly that the way you became a millionaire was were very successful in business correct yeah I've I've uh

always tried to learn from other people's experience and wisdom and try

not to duplicate some of their mistakes and and uh uh yeah just a lot of good

decisions and planning things out and uh

I lived with my parents till I was about 26 so you have to pay everything off and

make sure that uh you know I was financially set I spent some time doing

martial arts myself not nearly with the lifelong commitment you've made how much

of that slow and steady and just

discipline and doing the same things

over and over again how much of that

have have you used in the business world because it sounds like you've like if I look back you've moved really quickly to

gain this much net worth but at the same time it sounds like you've just been pretty methodical and pretty wise about

your next steps yeah I think that uh you know

martial arts the self discipline that comes with martial arts you know I started when I was eight years old U and

I think that the discipline that learned

from that uh it kind of bled over into

uh my being able to make good financial

decisions and you know I tell my students before you can learn to do something have to learn to do nothing and uh you just take your time and think and plan things out instead of making

you know irrational decisions based on emotion wow okay there's a 19-year-old

version of you out there what do you tell them the secret is um I think it's a kind of a two-part

uh two-part uh secret uh or answer I

guess but um I think the the first thing

is being able to find a mentor uh

someone that you that you look up to whether it's you know your based on your

financial uh you know goals financially

or whether it's a relationship or faith

um and then follow them listen to them

and then part two like I we just touched on is being able to have the self-d discipline to follow through with it and do it you know consistently dude you're a stud man

you're a hero well done that's absolutely amazing starting from nothing

and uh $5 million at 33 years old happy

birthday wow leave your contact

information with Christian on the phone there cuz I've been looking for a school for my two kids and you're exactly the kind of man that I want my kids learning from so leave your leave your school info I'm you're you're you just knocked

my socks off my man very cool good stuff

man good stuff this is a baby steps

millionaires theme hour on the ramsy

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show [Music]

on [Music]

[Applause]

it's a baby steps millionaires theme hour Dr John deloney Ramsey personality

is my co-host today open phones atle

88255 225 is we take questions from only

millionaires actually we don't want to take questions we're actually going to give you the questions we're going to interview you and find out how you got

here the misnomer is that millionaires

can't happen in America today unless you're a movie star or a sports figure

or a music icon of some kind and the

truth is among people that have a million dollar net worth or greater

those three categories put together account to less than 1% of the

millionaires hey you you wrote about a

thing in baby steps millionaires that it

was a light bulb moment for me I would

love for you to talk about a little bit you have a section called millionaires are not billionaires and I thought that

was an instructive conversation to have

well yeah it's it's um I think sometimes

when because the the whole thing on

millionaire became a thing in the

20s because a millionaire then was a lot

lot of money billionaire in the 1920s

probably a billionaire yeah and and so

it was like the game Monopoly was

developed about that time right and so

everything is around this idea of

acquiring and building a net worth of a million dollars because that was rich

that became the definition of rich and

Easy Street you're going to be on Easy Street and so then but what is happened

is over the years then the people think

it's not attainable to become a

millionaire which is a really good place

to be as a minimum starting point going

into your retirement it's not necessary that you're there to live but you you know that that sets you up for a pretty strong golden years it does not set you

up for opulence okay and so like for

instance no millionaires almost no

millionaires own a jet almost no millionaires own a

$400,000 Lamborghini or seven cars okay

almost no millionaires have uh a house

uh at the beach a house in the mountains

and a house that is a house most of them have one house that's it so it's a it's

a that's instructive for me because when

I think I could never have that no

because that's not the goal well it's not the first goal you could get there but a b see a billion is a thousand

million when you think about that it's a

thousand times more than a millionaire

well yeah they've got a jat yeah they've

got seven cars and yeah they got four houses but they got a thousand times

more money that's it's still a uh it's

still 5% of their net worth right

exactly exactly but I mean it's a it's

so but what what I the reason I wanted

to point that out is in the book and when we're talking about it is not that a billion is bad and a million is good

that's not the point or or that you but

but if you think of I'll never have

enough money to have a jet a house three

houses and seven cars then you're not

thinking about a million dollars you're thinking about a billion dollars and so yeah that is there are a lot fewer of

those right you know when I started this

show only 300 of the 400 Forbes 400

wealthiest people were billionaires even now 100% of them are billionaires and it

requires Pro you know quite a several

billion to even be on that list you know

and so but that's you know the the

number of billionaires there are in America whoo way less than millionaires

so it's it's okay to be a billionaire if you want to call me and tell me how you got to be a billionaire oh by the way you're not going to become a billionaire mathematically with your 401k right and

you're paid for a house but you will

become a millionaire with those two things uh which is the first step you

know the first 1 to five million to hit there so uh you know but but you don't

talk the uh of the people on the fors

400 the billionaires um 67% of them are

first generation they did not inherit their money two out of three that's

that's a bunch I mean so that says it can still be done but uh like 90 uh not

I think all of them I'll have to go back

and look I looked at it one time it may be one or two that inherited money of

the ones that made it the started from

nothing all of them owned and ran big

businesses his business yeah lightning struck yeah they they you know Michael Dell Dell computers right Bill Gates

Microsoft right Apple uh you know you go

through and you look at the tech world you go through and look at um uh uh uh

you know uh Elon Kathy family Tri

Chick-fil-A okay Elon Musk um you know

those Elon and uh uh Buffett are the two

number number one number two and Bezos you know but Bezos started his Elon started his from nothing yeah they both came from nothing and so but that's but

but don't confuse those two if uh it

because it can lead you to losing hope

that it can be done cuz the millionaire

is very attainable billionaire you got

to you got to run a business you got to

run a big business it can be done but you're not going to do that with your 401k not mathematically not you can't

put enough in there to get there it's that simple Margaret is with us in

Washington DC Margaret you're net worth

uh 5.6 million and I feel like I'm slow

to I feel like I'm slow to the dance based on that last caller because he's 32 and I'm 57 we're all slow to the

dance after that last caller I'll just tell you so you're 57 all right give me

a little breakdown on that uh 5.6

million sure it uh our home

um we beach home a commercial office

space small commercial office space is

worth what about 3 point uh 3.1 3.2 okay

and the remaining amount are 401ks IRAs

annuity um liquid assets um just a whole

so another 2.5 of that correct okay all

right very Co you'd be proud of me I spoke to you last December and you told me here I was crazy that I kept a balance on my beach house mortgage AG because I had so much in cash and today

after talking to Dawn I went to the bank and I paid off the remaining beach beach

house balance all right you can't come

on the air again without that thing paid

off that's what John told me and you

know John you made me go back in deck because I bought your book

today well if you're going to go back in debt buy a hundred of them then yeah go

all right how much of this 5.6 did you inherit zero all right and your best

year working income your worst year working income combined um about 450

between myself and my husband um worst

case probably when I got out of college maybe making about 36 okay and what's

your careers um I'm in sales I work for

myself um my husband's an attorney and

um yeah so I've always been in business for myself and I always say I have a great boss okay cool well obviously he

has a law degree what's your degree um

my undergrad was education in Spanish I

was going to be a Spanish teacher and then I got into the computer field and then at age 50 I got my Master's in in

business NBA no actually I I have a love

for nutrition and food studies and wanted to become a nutritionist but then I found out there's no money in it so I stuck with my business all right but I

still do nutrition on the side love it okay and what was your GPA um as a master's it was 4.0 um

undergrad I didn't really that was

terrible like 3.3 I should have was

awful I can't believe you did that okay oh man I've got I've got two

questions for you um the first one is how much of that did you steal U zero all right all right I

thought y'all were all crook yeah no no

none at all all right the second one is how many books do you read a month you

know I'm ashamed because I I don't I I

read probably two a year because by the

time my kids I mean my my son just graduated from college my daughter's in college and I'm exhausted I still open

the books and I fall asleep fall asleep

that's I've been I've been there the last few months hey so that makes that makes me even more grateful that you

read one to two books a year and you bought his book you bought mine that makes my heart full thank you and I have your other book as well and I do I do I

am reading intentional living by John Maxwell um and uh

so I just don't read enough I'm

embarrassed to tell you don't be embarrassed or ashamed you should read anything John Maxwell writes he's awesome we love we love John you're

doing great yeah yeah I'm really enjoying it my book will for sure put you to sleep so Dave I have to tell you

really really can I tell you something really quick that I had told Don and she said you got to tell Dave this sure I

made a stupid mistake when I got out of college I had a Mazda Arc 7 beautiful

California ocean blue me and my husband

at the time my ex-husband and we

couldn't afford the tires and they were going to be over $1,000 dollar to put new tires on so I thought I was a really

Savvy business business person and I said let's go to the Honda dealership and let's lease a car for $200 a month

and uh we'll save ourselves

$800 stupid I mean that was probably the

dumbest thing I've ever done and then you still ended up with 5.6 million by

57 you overcome the Thousand Tire deal

well done awesome way to go Margaret

good talking to you this is a baby steps

millionaires theme hour on the Ramsey

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

Show

[Music]

Dr John deloney Ramsey personality is my

co-host today it's a baby steps millionaires theme hour anybody that has

a net worth of a million dollars you're welcome to call in we want to know how much you got how you did it so that

other people can learn from you learn what we call in business best

practices how'd you do it so we can do

it Zach is with us in Salt Lake City

Zach what's your net worth hi Dave and John it's uh 1.8

million somewhere around there excellent

and give me a little breakdown by category so a paid off house it's around a

million dollars um Ira SEP IRA and and a

brokerage account invested in mutual funds around 450,000 I've got a CD with $200,000 in

it and then our you know high yield

savings with 150,000 that way to go how

old are you 37 all right very good and

how much of this did you inherit

zero zero all right I love love it very

good cool cool and your income your best

year and your worst year best year was around 650,000 whoa

and uh worst year was around 50,000 okay

cool what do you do for a living yeah I

uh I run a sales team for a Solar

Company wow okay cool you four-year

degree no degree I went for three years

and and uh found out sales as my and and

so I I never finished but but $650,000

later you figured it out huh I guess so

yeah way to go man very very cool all

right what do you tell the uh younger version of you is it still possible

today to become a millionaire starting from nothing like you did absolutely in fact I think it's it's

probably easier today than ever to

become there's a lot of good lot of good

opportunities out there and uh you know

I think I wish I'd have known years ago

I called in to the show last year and um

I was actually a a net worth millionaire

last year before I started following your plan and I called in and you you

gave me some encouragement to go ahead and pay off my house and and everything so I wish that I'd have started younger

um I always lived under my means but I I

wish that I started following you know avoiding debt and and investing younger

and one one thing that I do want to say

is is uh you know there's a lot of

people that you know disagree I guess

with paying off a mortgage early they say hey you should keep that money you know keep the mortgage and invest the money or whatever and I I get their

argument but the thing that I really like about what you teach is once you

have that mortgage paid off um it's a

lot easier to invest into retirement and

and other things I'm investing a lot of money right now every month on on autopilot and I if I would have had a mortgage or car payments I wouldn't be doing those Investments and that's

probably the best argu I've heard from from Ramsey on on that yeah you know my

contention also is and I ask you about

this because it's interesting to me um

is that when you're running a business a small business like you are um uh that

you make different decisions when you

have zero debt at

home absolutely I'm more confident in

the decisions I make here at Ramsey

because I don't have to worry about the home front I agree yep and therefore I think

I think I end up making more money here because of that I think I agree I think

I there's no desperation

decisions it's a lot easier to make a

sale when you don't have to make the sell I agree yeah because uh broke

salespeople smell bad they do and you

can also break up with those customers that are just driving you mad um you

could say you know I'm GNA move on because I don't I don't I don't need this I don't have to have this so that my family can eat and hey so while we

got you you got a lot of money in CDs

and a savings account are you saving for

something big Yeah Yeah we actually have

a a family friend that's uh he's

developing some land up here um about a

mile or two from my house it should be

ready in the next year so that's why I've been piling money up there so that

when it comes available I want to I want to buy a lot with cash good knows

deloney fantastic hey and one more thing

so um you're a good case study for me

I'm always telling folks listen I get

the if you're one of those folks who bought a house at 2.9% I get the math

problem there it's an excellent math problem in your favor especially when you look historically you had that you had a

house on the front end of this and then you're a millionaire and then you thought I'm just going to pay this thing off what kind of piece do you have in

your house do you feel different tell me

if I'm crazy because I don't mind being wrong in fact I'm wrong a lot but is it

does it feel different it's my it's yours it feels a lot different what what Dave

always says about you know walking barefoot in the grass it just feels different it you don't really know that

feeling until you go ahead and and pay off the house and so I I'll never go

into debt again and and a lot of my friends kind of laugh at that and they think oh you you know when you build a house you will and I said no I'll uh I'm

gonna save up and and and maybe go a little bit slower but it it's silly to

me to think that I had a mortgage and and and car payments before now that you're out of it I don't want ever want to go back and the feeling is really really good

yeah way to go I'm proud of you man yeah

you're a stud man you're a hero way to go very proud of you good work Ann is

with us in Columbus Ohio and your net

worth just at 2.5 million love it okay

and uh how old are you I'm 46 my husband is 52 all right

very cool give me a little breakdown by

category on the two and a half

million it's 1 7 in retirement 600 in

our paid off home $100,000 in cash and

another 100 in other miscellaneous

Investments very good 29 and perfect mix

well done how much of this did you

inherit well a few years ago many years

ago I got $4,000 when my grandmother

passed away okay so it's safe to say you

are not a millionaire because of an inheritance

no but I do have good parents yeah I

didn't say that hey I just I want you to

know if you watch this on YouTube live I

just laughed but not at your Grandmother's passing you set this up

and I thought you were GNA say I got a million dollars but you said I got 4,000

bucks yeah so what's your best year

working income since you've been working and your worst year well our worst year was back during

the beginning of the stay-at-home mom years and it was about 70,000 and our

best year will probably be this year

where it should be around 440,000 wow

but um it's only been like that the last

so many years since we're empty nesters

so most of those years were you know

under 100,000 100 to 150 we went back

and looked and um where we are today

especially from the retirement front is

based on what we did during the years

where we didn't make a lot of money it's

much less based on what we do

today what we're doing today I hear you

yeah so what what do you what do you do for a living and what's your husband do what's your careers um we're both mechanical

engineers by degree I work in marketing

and he works in project management okay and I assume you have

engineering degrees both of you yes okay and your um GPS

uh well so remember the engineer it was

a threep point for me because that's what I needed to keep my scholarship or

my parents were making me pay for school

and it was 2.7 for my husband's

undergrad and he actually got accepted

into a master's program conditionally

because they were concerned about his um

2.7 GPA but he worked fulltime all the

way through college yeah wow you guys

are incredible what's your advice to the younger version of you

listening uh one really important thing

is be very intentional about who you

marry somebody with shared values shared

goals somebody who's

hardworking take FPU early um taking

Financial Peace University we didn't take it till 2013 and it was rocket fuel

we had a lot of the the basics in place

but that's really really what brought everything together wow thanks for the ad that was

awesome just amazing very well done

thank you an we appreciate you you're

amazing I'm so proud of you guys way to

go hero this is a baby steps

millionaires theme hour on the Ramsey

[Music]

Show

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

our scripture of the day Philippians 4:12 I know what it is to be in need and

I know what it is to have plenty I have

learned the secret of being content in any and every situation whether wellfed

or hungry whether living in plenty or in

want David Lee Roth said money can't buy

you happiness but it can buy you a big

yacht a yacht big enough to pull up

alongside

it oh my goodness well done uh Wayne is

in Chattanooga Wayne you're net

worth hey uh Dave thanks for taking my

call um 3.4 million good for you all

right how old are you give give or take give or take a month you know how okay

how old are you I'm 62 62 all right and

give me a little break give me a little breakdown on the 3.4 million all right

so I will say let's say nine years ago I

had about a million dollars Dave um and

since that time uh in that million

dollar was in a TR mostly in a

traditional 401K uh so you know taxable um and since

that time I've made a few uh real estate

Investments um and have basically in

that nine years changed that million to

over $3 million good for you through

multiple some of it being um residential

and then uh you know um one of those

Investments was uh a commercial

investment so um yeah that's kind of

where it's ended up um I I'm I'm debt

free uh my home's worth approximately

425,000

um and that's kind of where I'm at good

for you well done okay yeah all right

and what was your how much of this did you inherit well that's a funny story uh my

father passed away when I was very young

um I inherited U

$7,000 um and as a and I was a teenager

uh at that point I I bought a car or a

truck for 3500 bucks so left me with

$3,500 and so I decided my grandfather was a uh

he invested and I didn't know anything

about it but what I did know is I knew

that it it it really my grandfather was

he ended up very wealthy so um I wanted

to kind of Follow that path so I went to

the bank and the banker said to me he

says uh yeah you know I had $3,500 said

just put it in your savings account I saidwell I'm not really I don't really want to do that and uh so ultimately I

put in 30 I put in $500 into a savings

account and then I had $3,000 left and

and through the help of my grandfather and I was 17 years old at the time uh

helped me invest that into a mutual

fund um which was a Fidelity mellin Fund

I'm sure you're familiar that yeah

what's it worth today uh hundreds of thousands

I never I never touched it that's

incredible and it um and I think for the

younger the younger generation to

understand what investing is about I had

to go to a facility we had to go somewhere make an

appointment in order for me to invest that 300 $3,000 uh and it there was a fee

attached to it it was it was a process I

mean today I could do that in 60 seconds

you know uh and I and I believe today

Building Wealth is so much easier than

it was when you and I were growing up

you're right you're right and and so is destroying it both are easier is it's so

is destroying it it it absolutely is um

but I think I I think it's it's it's so

much easier today if I if I were myself

back then uh planed today it'd be so

much easier I'd be worth tens of

millions of dollars more I mean there's

no question there's no question about it

if I knew then what I know now wow

absolutely way to go Wayne proud of you

man excellent job Dave I I I'm I'm just

struck now this is a small sample size

but everyone we've talked to today has

been generating wealth significantly

several of our callers said they've had their best years this year or last year

recently mhm and every shred of news I

get from every angle of my life is how

the economy's falling apart there's no way to get ahead everybody everything's awful it's all coming down and all the

calls we took today people are saying

well it's it's the time and apparently

someone uh decided not to participate in

the recession High interest rates and

high we can't do it with they're just

they just are one guy's a Salesman

somebody else is a Salesman somebody else is a two salespeople an attorney a martial

arts uh owner two mechanical engineers

um best year ever best year ever best year ever yeah yeah this year this year this year despite the inflation despite nobody spending money 5.5 million 5.6

million 1.8 million 2.5 million 3.4

million no one inherited anything

appreciably I mean that was subst

nothing substantial that made them a millionaire and so the idea that all

millionaires are inherited money 79% of

millionaires are study inherited zero

another 5% inherited a small amount like these 4,000 $4,000 $7,000 but not enough

to make you a millionaire and another 5%

inherited substantial money after they were already millionaires so 5 and five

and 79 is 89 so that will help tell you

that nine out of 10 of America's millionaires are first generation Rich

did it without an inheritance so when

these left-wing nut jobs tell you that

it's all over and the only thing that's going to work for you is Carl Marx

because they're college professor who's a communist told them that uh and then

they tell you that it's impossible to get ahead in America I'm telling you the

actual data says nine out of 10

millionaires are first generation

Rich that's it's such it's so counter

counterintuitive it's so counternarrative both both counternarrative it's not counterintuitive not counterintuitive counternarrative at at the macro level

at the you just can't get ahead anymore and then at the micro level it's all

coming down it's all coming down it's all coming down it's just not yeah yeah it might be but it doesn't look I mean

everybody's having the best year of their life man it's wild $100 a month

invested from age 25 to age 65 at 12% in

a good mutual fund and the stock market is averaged 11.6 for 80 years okay but so you know

$100 a month invested from age 25 to age

65 1,

$176,000

$100 that's with no match that that's

with you know no magic and Tick Tock

mirrors to buy nothing down real estate

that you can't afford or shirts t-shirts

on for on on four

payments yeah that's true yeah there's no

payments involved in that uh but people

can't find $100 you know and uh and the

reason is I got a $750 truck payment and

the reason is they got a student loan that during the last three years when there's been no interest they paid nothing on it and and come Sunday Bloody

Sunday here we go man man uh I mean it's

uh this coming Sunday is the when the student loans start back October one baby it's here life is real so we're

going to send a team to uh Washington DC

yeah and do some man on- the street stuff Monday because that's uh when the

student loans have started back the

government might also shut down by then

cuz the children and the sandbox throwing crayons at each

other gosh Billy kicked sand in my eyes

he's a republican I don't like Dan he's

a Democrat it's my it's my my sand

castle I want to put $2 billion doar in

for uh Rat research in into the budget

and we keep voting for these and if you

don't do that then we're going to shut down the government you know so you know

what it would be kind of cool if they solve some morons dodgeball you voted

them in I voted them in it's our freaking fault we we do this to

ourselves man I don't know one person

that's like man bang up job bang up job

anybody's doing I think you guys are

just amazing the efficiency by which you

govern in did you see that thing that Warren Buffett said it's like amazing when he said I could solve the the deficit tomorrow yep you're all fired

yeah well or you don't you get zero pay until you get the budget balanced oh by the way I saw that um all the federal

employees will lose their paychecks when they shut the government down but not

the uh Congress congress not the Congress nope nope uh we vote ourselves an exemption

because we're incompetent that puts this

hour of the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the

Prince of Peace Christ

Jesus hey it's Dr John delone if you

like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps go to ramsy

solutions.com and click on the get

started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your

specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 180. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 26, 2023)


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[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money we're going to talk about you right in front of you baby open phones at 8825 5225 the call is free and some say it's

worth exactly what you pay for it Kim is with us Kim is in Asheville North Carolina starting off this hour hi Kim how are you hello how are you better than I deserve what's up okay so I have a question um we hired

a gentleman to do our taxes in March of this year and we ended up hiring him to do financial planning for us as well and

after hir ing him to do that we

discovered that he had filed bankruptcy twice and had been sued for writing a bad check and so my question is um well he F

bankruptcy in 2019 was his last one that

was the second one and the it said the

certified financial planning board revoked his right to use their certification Mark H and then he also

was sued for writing a bad check to a moving company recently and that was um in

2018 and so we had already paid him a large fee to use him for financial planning and I guess my question is should this be of concern to us we have discussed this with him what

did he say he says that we don't

understand what it's like to run our own business um and just basically was you know he

was very rude about it and said his business would go on with or without us o uh I want my money back I'm leaving I don't care about the bankruptcy with your butt I don't want to work with you right and he you don't get to be rude to me about this you're self you're self you're defensive which means that

yeah I've been I've been sued and I filed bankruptcy but if you ask me about it I'll just tell you I almost feel like not last week but I mean I'll just tell you right I almost feel like you open with that if you're if that's part of your story that's what's informed you to this point he claimed that he told us in the contract well I made him send that back to us

because it disappeared after we signed it and we couldn't see our own copy so he sent it to me a couple weeks ago there was a link that we could click in small print

about this how much did you pay this guy

$1,500 okay will he refund you or not he

will not okay I'm walking anyway I'm walking anyway I'm walking anyway well yeah we told him we were walking because we don't trust him and just because of his attitude exactly exactly it's not the thing it's the attitude okay because here's the thing okay let's say the moving company tore up 17 of his items and then they

would then they wanted to you know and then he unpacked it and found a vase that they were responsible for they don't want to refund him for the broken vase so he stops payment on the check they sue him well that's a valid story

sure right he also he told me that he

didn't he settled that check I said well you didn't settle it or they wouldn't have sued you yeah well it's the

attitude is the thing it's like look hey if I were in your here's the proper way to answer this question if I'm him if I were in your shoes I'd have these exact same concerns I'm happy to tell you the details okay here's what happened in this situation and here's what happened in that situation and the bankruptcy was not you don't understand why it's like to run a business

the bankruptcy was I did some stupid butt things I learned from it and I'm not doing them anymore the check was the moving company misbehaved and I used that as leverage and it got out of hand and they sued me but they had no basis to judge through it out yeah he blamed his ex-wife for the bad check I I don't care you see what I'm saying that

if you had gone that way then he would have redeemed his credibility if he' had been smarter and done what Jade said and set upfront what was going on it's part of your story that's fine that's fine that's what we

felt but i' I've been sued for things that I didn't do that they made up in effort to try to basically use the court system to Blackmail me to settle with them I refuse to settle with them so that gets all in the news so you can look up Dave Ramsey got sued but the basis of the lawsuits are zero didn't absolutely did not occur but it doesn't matter

you can sue somebody for anything in America so I don't mind telling you that that's happened okay um but but I've still got you know I've still got if you want to be pissed at Dave Ramsey randomly you can find places on the internet that I did all kinds of things I didn't do yeah well I you know he said he was

going to sue the certified financial planning board for good luck with that yeah and I was like how can you do that yeah he just sounds a little I don't I really don't like his attitude I don't like that he's defensive he sounds like he's pointing the finger blaming it doesn't sound like it's going to be a fun work environment for you to work with this I'm walking away

I think I think I think you should walk away and you already had walked away so you already knew the answer to the question yeah she well she probably wanted to know if there was some way she could force him to get the money back but I wouldn't put any effort into it I'd just move on I don't think you're going to turn him into not being a jerk yeah

I think he's already got that one down well if he hasn't done any work for them yet in that capacity I feel like a good

person would say hey you didn't know this we haven't started this yet here's your money back even a not good person knows that some customers are worth more are more trouble than they're worth and if I'm her and I disagree with her I mean if I'm him and I disagree with her she's more trouble than she's worth here's your money back go away even if I even even

if I'm not a good person it's just it's worth the just to get rid of them absolutely you know we fire a customer around here that misbehaves ever so often they you can't call here and cuss at our people we don't allow you to do that yeah we'll give you your money back tell you go away you know that's all right I don't I don't put up with your junk cuz some customer service uh people in America their whole job is to get cussed at by Rah holix all day long ter

and we don't our our customer service people I tell them listen just tell them no yeah we don't wait a minute wait we don't talk like that here you're not doing that just call somewhere else and be pissed off take your money and that you're going to use here and use it for counseling you need it you know just move on right but yeah I mean it it's even

if you're on the other side of it it's worth it to get rid of and I don't think Kim's that I think Kim's figured this out um yeah the sad thing is is

that now she's questioning all Financial people or planners yeah whether or trustworthy I'll tell you what you know smart Fester Pro will sit down with you they don't charge you a thing cuz they make a commission yep off of of uh selling you a mutual fund for your for your Roth IRA or your kids college fund um and they don't make anything unless they sell you something

so people are all suspect about that but they're the good ones they do it with the heart of a teacher that's why we endorse smart Vestor Pros uh we don't have any fee based financial planners in our system yeah that are upfront fees uh not because I'm mad at them they just don't like us because I endorse mutual funds yeah that makes sense and um you know

because here's the thing there's a thing in the financial world is worth talking about this in the 20 seconds we've got called the fiduciary and you see it on there's there's one company running and they're lying about it on their TV ad during uh football I saw it last two or three weekends I can't think what it's called little green sign in the background but like we are fiduciaries

we are fiduciaries we don't make anything unless you make something we are fidu no the word fiduciary means a person of trust can you trust someone that gets a commission yes if they're

trustworthy all real estate agents are commission-based fiduciaries and they should put your interest first yeah they just they but just because you get paid when they make a sale doesn't mean you can't have integrity that's right that's absurd so that's the financial world right now this is the Ramsey

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my coach co-host today the ramsy show question of the day sponsored by neighborly your hub for home services from repairs and maintenance to Remodeling and upgrades neighborly trusted home service providers have trained local experts to handle almost any job download the neighborly app and you can connect to all the help you need these are great people they are today's question of the day comes from Paula in Georgia my son school is running a food bank

so I sent him with some highly requested items such as peanut butter canned soup soup and tuna fish when my husband saw them he insisted we don't donate quality items like these and instead only Donate rice and beans I'm

aware that you've told people to eat beans and rice if they're on a tight budget and cannot afford to indulge and nicer Foods however I also know that you

value generosity and giving and I didn't see anything wrong with donating something other than beans and rice do you believe that the same principle applied to those on a tight budget should also be applied to recipients of food banks oh brother I don't mean to laugh but it's just so silly that's silly it's

silly yeah number one when we say beans and rice honey it's a metaphor yeah a

metaphor is a a representation philosophically of an actual item I am not suggesting that people only live on beans and rice I am suggesting that you quit spending s dad gun much money on food especially eating out all the time so probably prime rib is not on your list or Lobster taale but possibly even

some Hamburger Helper might make the list you don't have to just literally do beans and rice it's a metaphor I think this guy was just looking for an excuse to be a tightwad be a che SK he didn't have to look for an excuse he already was I mean goodness gracious and it's

not like tuna fish is that big of an upgrade from racing beans I mean come on now and here's the deal I mean what we're talking about is you limiting your consumption so so you can create margin

yeah to move ahead we're not talking about those poor people don't need any good food what in the world dude terrible seriously seriously yeah that's horrible

yes they need some good food send them some good food you cheap skate your wife is right your son is even better learn from them sir yeah oh my gosh if you're going to give something away be generous with what you're giving that's right hly I'm going to give you a car but it doesn't really run because you can just you can figure that out for yourself what in the world you know what Dave though I I've I've been okay so I've been here about 13 months 14 months I am

shocked at how many people I've encountered that think the beans and rice rice and beans thing is literal let me tell you what's worse okay 30 years of doing this I have had precisely

4732 offers to co-author a beans and

rice cookbook with other listeners

I made that up but it's close to 4,000 I mean it's unbelievable the and apparently it would be a best seller if we could just get the people that wanted to co-author it look with me to buy it but yeah people keep asking me about it I'm beans and rice cookbook no it's it's a it's a metaphor a metaphor it's a metaphor yes you can this you can eat different food look it up look up metaphor it's good for oh my gosh yeah but we don't need to be going out to eat

every night it's some fancy spancy thing or for that matter for fast food because it's fast but it's not necessarily food and the um and you know you're working so that

you can learn to put yourself as a guy I used to work for would say we're working so I can get enough money that I can read the menu from left to right I know that's right I don't start with the price I get to start with a thing and pick what I want prices irrelevant but when you're broke you self-manage your

consumption not other people imposing on you yeah their their beans and rice so

oh my gosh yeah then you're entering into like a judgment kind of Zone I

think and it's like well just be

generous if you can yeah I mean I yeah

you you kind of missed the point sir yeah kind of not kind of you did all right Aya is with us aa's in Washington DC hi Aya what's up hi Mr Ramsey hey um

I was wondering if we should pay off our current mortgage and relocate for a current cheaper mortgage what's making you ask that question wait pay off your current mortgage or relocate and get a cheaper mortgage what would be cheaper than a paid off mortgage um so we bought a house that

needed to be fixed up so we fixed it up and now it's we just had a realer come out and tell us what we could list it as my husband was in the military and just

got out and his job fell through so it kind of shook us and we just wanted to

move somewhere with the proceeds to have

a cheap enough mortgage to be covered by my

disability okay um so you're not you don't have the opportunity to pay off your mortgage you're talking about moving to a less expensive property because you're scared about his income right why do you think he's not going to get an income um it's not so much that he

wouldn't get one we're just um kind of

thinking about we prioritizing our time

the house that we bought is a historic house so it takes a lot of Maintenance we do a lot of the work ourselves that's a different discussion what do you owe on that house uh 490 490,000 I already don't like the

house I hate that we have spent so much time on it we can get some good money for it and get something I like is a good reasonable move I'm using his lack

of a job and a cheaper mortgage as my excuse is not okay okay um you see the difference

we're just kind of we're both yeah we're both on the same boat so we're just you know the boat where he doesn't work just that he has more flexibility and we're

not how old is he not right now how old is he we're 25 and 26 okay he needs to

get a career darling it's not good for him to not work much I'm not saying he won't work I

am saying he needs to get a career where he works okay I'm hearing the code words in your language 100% he's not to work much at all and that's worrying part of it is he got knocked out of the saddle and didn't get the other job and it's he's lost some of his confidence and you're clearly worried because you're talking about selling your house and relocating so that

you could only live on your disability like you said it with your own words I don't think that that came out right we he wants to work that's not the issue the issue is is that we want to be more flexible with not having to deal with the house and not having a mortgage that's so high is the mortgage than 25% of your take-home pay it is now that he's not working

but before that was it

no no it wasn't okay okay so your

mortgage amount is not your problem the house if you want to get rid of a house that's a money pit where you work on it all the time I don't blame you I would do that okay but let let's not couch that in he wants more flexibility and

when I'm talking about his job your answer is he wants more flexibility it wasn't when I was talking about the house repairs you said that so I didn't

didn't misunderstand you you said it real clearly so what what we need to do let's let's parse this out and break it up number one the two of you need to get really good cool strong careers that you're passionate about I will send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book from paycheck to purpose number two it doesn't sound like your mortgage is off me neither and I'm I'm actually wondering number three

I would sell a house it's a money pit and I had to screw with it all the time it drive me nuts that's true but I don't know that if it's a money pit that's one thing but I don't know I'd Beed to know more she's in Washington DC where does she plan on relocating where she's going to they may be move into a whole different city too that's possible

but yeah which would be less expensive for sure yeah I'm getting rid of The Money Pit but I'm also getting a career yeah they need and probably get in the house about the same price range that in The Money Pit M when I make the move that's would be my advice to you guys don't don't mix these things together and create some kind of false narrative that's not really going on okay that's what

I heard heard you saying I think you were saying it whether you wanted to or not this is the ramsy

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[Applause] more in the lobby of ramsy Solutions on the debt free stage Christina is with us hi Christina how are you hi good welcome

nervous oh yeah you're okay we've never lost a patient that's right you're going to be all right we're proud of you so you're here to do a Deb free scream where do you live Clarksville Tennessee Clarksville military family um I used to

be in the military but I'm not now okay well thank you for serving a lot of a lot of military in Clarksville that's what I was asking yes all right and uh how much debt did Christina from Clarksville pay off $ 34,1 162 you're

amazing how long did this take 36 months good for you th000 bucks a month get it and your range of income during that three years $4,490 a year to

$49,500 on your house cleaning business well so um my business started 8 years ago um

but um my journey um officially started

I went through my first FPU class in 2012 so I've been doing this for a long time um I was married at the time and

we tried to get on the same page and and um couldn't couldn't and it took a lot of years to figure out that we couldn't

so in 2020 of uh April of 20 my divorce

was filed oh my gosh what a year yeah

and the next month my business closed

because you know nobody wants us in our home when everybody has Co that's right oh wow so I started off my journey um in the basement of a friend of a friend's house with not much money and uh not

really sure what was going to happen and

so since then um start cleaning houses

again yeah started clean and the nice thing about Co is everybody wanted their houses clean once we got that started going again so so we uh we actually got got that back up and going and now um now you're making 50 Grand that's a killer well well that's everything included that's that's um child support and everything but it it that's quite a journey yeah good for you you get after

it girl way that's incredible you got to feel like your your whole life has transformed in 36 months yeah it has it's a whole different world yeah I mean career marital status confidence

everything thing wow you're oh and you got out of debt I got out of debt yeah you're amazing I'm so proud of you it's it's not me it's all it's all God yeah well he he was actually using you to clean those toilets I know that's right you you put you put in the work I did do that yeah you got to plant that corner it doesn't grow as you so so you reap way to go kiddo very proud of you excellent

all right so uh what kind of debt was $34,000 oh it was everything it was a it

was back taxes it was uh back rent um

just from after the divorce it was um student loan car loan um how' you get

all the debt you got all the debt from the divorce um no I got a I got a little

just just over half of it uh but that was my half that was my half of everything okay so the back rent was both of you and then you got half the back rent M okay I love the support I'm

seeing from your son that that is that's hitting me man I love it you you definitely clearly had the support of your family next to you I do that's the only reason that I got here is because of all the support uh it's one thing to have two teenagers it's another to have two good on I mean yes what yeah where

it go she's like what me yes

you amazing amazing wow well you know

they they've been with me the whole time I mean right after right after um um

when we started cleaning again and and things were starting to move along I actually tried to homeschool them cuz that was smart on top of everything I had to deal with I thought that homeschooling them was going to be a good plan so for that first year after Co we homeschooled for a year and and and every month every month for um our

finance lesson I bought the the Ramsey home school thing and everything and every month for our we came up here we came up here to watch your show and I brought my planner and I would do my budget at the end of the month right here in the lobby and then whoever was doing the show I had sign sign my planner for that month so yall were kind of my account ability for that

first month while I was trying to get back on my feet wow wow you're my accountability CU they keep coming to work you're inspiring very inspir so they've been with me they they've come along with me on everything this year when when I finally got in a head space to where I could really buckle down um we I brought them to the Building Wealth live um I came to

the smart conference I brought them with me to meet micro for the labor crisis so they've been drug along with like everything so wow they're my little buddies I love it I love it so what's

next building up the emergency fund feeling good about the future how does it feel to have no debt Sur Real I mean I've been trying since 2012 and and I i' I listen to

these all the time I've come see I've come seen your shows I mean for years

and I I cry every time that I I watch one and I just never imagined I would actually be up here okay so you overcome

living in a friend of a friend's basement you overcome the business closing down and opening up you overcome $34,000 wor of debt you overcome the

loss of your marriage all in the last 36 months you truly are a warrior princess

you're amazing I mean that's powerful really is I feel like a lot of it was I don't think it was because of me I think it I feel like most time it was in spite of me cuz no you're a hero you're a hero you need to own it yeah you do you committed to for some people it really is a longer journey and you committed for

the whole journey it's just like your shirt anybody who can't read her shirt everything is possible for the one who believes and that is such I mean you're really evidence of that you kept belief and you kept going and you got knocked down and you kept going and you got knocked down again and you kept going and here you are on the stage yeah but I'm hard-headed too

I actually called in Ken show about six years ago to ask if I

should try to pay off debt or hire some people for my business and he said that you get what you focus on so I should pay off debt so I went and I hired a bunch of people and

that's hilarious so so you know and then and

then I remember I remember um I remember

the back when y'all were in your old building uh I got I I really I was I got

my husband got me my ex-husband got me a a car for in 2018 for my birthday and I had a paid off van and I was listening to I listen to you guys in a red all I got all your books and I I've been trying for a long time you know and uh I got that and and part of me was like you can't take this

and then part of me was like well it was a gift and her marriage wasn't doing well so this is kind of fun so well we'll see I felt so guilty taking that car that the next day I drove out to your old place in Brentwood to get a lecture from you on

why I shouldn't have a car payment and I felt so as I felt but I left I left the

office that morning and Nicole my office manager she said so you going to tell Dave that uh you're you're you're there in your new car and I said absolutely not and I said in fact I was so ashamed that I parked across the street at the stores and I walked over so that I didn't have to park in your parking lot wow you didn't defile the parking lot

I did not defile the parking lot and I I cannot tell you when I got here this morning and I was driving out here and my my my financial coach Andy he took a picture of my parking spot where you have the name of all the debt free screams and like it like just kind of blew me away like 5 years ago I was hiding in the bushes

and now you now you have a parking spot of Honor look at that you don't have to park across the street at the store in the parking spot of Shame that's right that's right I have a car that you can't open the door from the outside but that's okay that's only temporary that's only temporary how old how old are your your kiddos

um 16 and 14 16 and 14 and their names

uh his is Grace and Christian Grace and Christian well go well done mom well done I know you're nervous but um we're pretty impressed you you we run into a lot of people on this stage and some of them are Overcomers some of them knock a few things down uh you you you just took a machete and whacked your way through the jungle kiddo pretty amazing pretty amazing well done hey we've got

the live and give box for you that includes The Total Money Makeover book The Baby Steps millionaires book because that's your destiny and uh no stopping this one woo

and a Financial Peace University membership and you guys are incredible uh Grace and Christian I I know you know this but your mom is a superhero very

cool all right count it down you guys 34,000 paid off in 36 months from 15,000

to 49 count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're debt

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free wow goodness

woo allergies are bad this season I'm just saying that'll make your eyes water right there that's the Ramsey

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rules and restrictions May

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at

88255 225 well in case you wondered if

smart conference that you did on the hill up here was important last caller told us it was or one of the other streaming events or one of the other 9 million things we do around here like I'm doing a show every day and you can come in here and watch the show live is important we had no idea she'd been in here all those times that's right it first time we ever met her MH so very very interesting stuff very interesting stuff speaking of starting your journey

uh Jade washaw will be doing a free every dooll webinar at everydollar.com

budgeting you can sign up up and help you break the cycle of living paycheck to paycheck when is the webinar tomorrow tomorrow at 11:30 central time so sign

up so like Tuesday the 10th yep Tuesday

the 10th Tuesday the 10th at 11:30 a.m.

Central Time if you're not able to do that or you hear this at a later date because you catch it on your podcast or YouTube or something at a later date there are others so be sure to go to everydollar.com budgeting Jade will be doing more Rachel Cruz will be doing more and George will be doing more of these uh budgeting webinars and they actually make budgeting fun

they actually help you work out how to take your paychecks and pick out which thing goes in which thing we call it paycheck planning through the month so every dollar has an assignment for that matter every dollar of every check has an assignment when you're done uh it's a very usable very friendly world's best budgeting app and by the way we're not charging you this free totally free every dollar webinar every

.com/srobiyt no he passed in June but we he passed two months after we bought the house oh I'm so sorry how old was he 53 oh I'm

sorry young what happened yeah um well

long story short and stayed River failure oh my I'm so sorry W how long

were youall married um 14 years okay how

old and you're about the same age I'm 47

47 okay all right how can we help today I'm so sorry so thank you so anyway like

I said this is the first home I've ever owned and I'm trying to figure out everything on my own and it just so happened that the neighbor that we share a fence line with and there is just one fence line the fence line fell into my

property and I was hoping that the homeowner adjacent would go half and half on replacing the fence but they don't seem interested in that so I guess I'm stuck with fixing the fence by

myself okay um well typically the fence

is put up just inside the property line of one party or the other okay so if the

survey was done the fence posts would

typically be on your property or on their property meaning that it's either your fence or their fence okay the posts were definitely on their property okay so it's definitely their fence fix I guess so now that you explained it yeah yeah and so um you

know now uh did something knock it down or it just rotted down or what just yeah just rotted and it was the wind but we both have dogs so I feel somewhat responsible to get it fixed as opposed to what you know it just being an issue

you know so I just didn't know what the recourse if there is any or if I just need to fix it because they won't did when you brought it to them they were probably unaware of whose property it was on do you think that if you let them know hey it's on your property do you think that would change it at all or is it just a situation where they're not spending money on that yeah

I can try now that you told me that because I wasn't sure you know I just didn't know so if I if I the fence posts are on your property so this is your fence I will go in with you to help you fix your

fence oh you know what that sounds a lot Kinder but I sentence can we split this

that's a different sentence if you cuz they're be the owner of the fence when it's fixed M and you're just doing that out of the goodness of you're doing that to keep your dogs out of their yard absolutely and their dogs out of mine but I didn't know that and I wasn't armed with that so maybe I'll try that and see what happens I appreciate it yeah

I don't know my guess is they don't have the money yeah so none of this might change it it might also might help to this is what I would do I might have someone come look at it so I had some actual numbers to say hey oh sure I was looking at this if we both chip in you know $600 I don't know how what that cost

if we both chip in $600 they'll come out and fix it I know you know and tell them it's on their side hey I I took I looked at the parameters it's technically your fence but it benefits both of us if you chip in 600 I'll chip in 600 you know I already found a guy will fix your fence yeah that sounds reasonable I like that thank

you very much I didn't even think about that yeah how how how big a piece of property are we dealing with how long how many how many how long is the section of fences down 50 ft 500 guess it's like I don't know it's like eight panels so I I'm not really good

that okay so it's like a privacy fence correct yes okay all right well

we're not talking a lot of money here then well that's good I was just didn't know if I had any recourse to action but I like what you said I don't think you have any recourse I think you've got persuasion and neighborly love and those kinds of things because here's the problem if you put up a fence just inside your property they can attach to it and still get the benefit of it MH exactly but you know and put no money in

yeah worse comes to worse I'll do that but I like your way better I'll at least try it yeah thanks and you know the other thing I would do and this sounds manipulative but it's not because it's the truth I would just you're a I would sit down in front of them personally if you can do they live there no it's just ENT at the property

that's part of the problem that's why they don't care it's part of the problem too okay oh no not them in particular they they've but they have the renters have dogs that come in your yard yes because the owner has not fixed his fence this is a problem now it's different correct yeah anyway do do the people do you know the people that own it no no not personally do

they happen to live in your area or do you know I don't know that okay if you can find out it's always better to talk about things in person okay always better because and

if you can do that number one number two I would tell them your story and your story is hey I've never done anything like this because I've never owned real estate my husband died right after we moved in here and I don't know how to navigate this stuff so um I don't even

know if I could do that frankly I could barely do it with you guys well if you did it with us you can do it with them yeah I suppose yeah you can do it 24 million people just listened in on this conversation so that's right imagine you can have a one duper over a cup of coffee all right so uh but yeah just just sit down

and go look I lost my husband in June and I don't know how to do all this stuff but here's an idea I had your your your renter's dogs are getting in my yard my dogs are getting in your yard and and the fence is on your property so it's your fence but I'll chip in with you on your fence I got some bids like Jade said it's 400 bucks I'll put in 200

if you guys will put in 200 would you would you help out

help out a neighbor here and let's get this fixed up yeah and you know it's hard to turn that one down and it's also worth mentioning that you're trying to avoid something bigger cuz if you guys' dogs get to fighting if somebody's dog bites in NE like I can just see this snowballing into a bigger issue and if the owner is going to want to avoid that at all cost

if they know what's going on well you know what I'm saying because one more one more word to have one more reason to not have uh Runners with dogs but what do I know so I love dogs love

dogs me and my dog spent time together this morning right before I came to work but uh none but I hate dogs as a landlord so as a we don't have any we don't have any Ramsey houses with dogs in them not not legally anyway there might be some illegal aliens but not not legally so illegal alien dogs yeah yeah

Dave have a heart people they got to bring their they can't bring their pet I know they the problem is they don't make them behave just like some people's children right that's right and then I got a house is all torn up because I didn't have a backbone but anyway that's what's happening so there you go there you go and then the fence falls down that's right dog knocked it down I know what

happened this is the ramsy

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show hey what's up guys it's Jade look

if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to Ramsey solutions.com and click the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

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started [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships thank you for joining us America open phones at 88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your money Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us again triple 8 825 5225 Mark starts off this hour in Springfield Missouri hey Mark welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave um I got a

question I know how the baby steps work

but I'm i' I've got a little bit of a quandry as to where I need to put my wife's student loans in this because she is still in school and not having to pay

on them so do I put them in because

she's got 12 loans do I put them in where they go and slow my snowball down or do I put them at the end and continue my snowball until I get to them I'd put them in where they go she's got 12 of them so I'd list i' I'd put those in smallest to largest along with your other debts and you might have one student loan and

then a credit card and then a student loan and then a car payment and then you know it doesn't all have to be by group and I think sometimes in our minds we want it to be that way but that's okay just put them in as they go smallest to largest how much student loan debt is there it's 58,000 and how much other data is there uh there's two cars um one is

9,000 and one is 13,000 and the student loans only one of

them is more than the first car so I'm

going to be paying we're going to be doing like 11 student loans and then a car yeah it's 46,000 that I'm not going to be building what's your household yeah you won't be building any sing because you payments on those to cancel out I got you that's a good point um so the uh what's your

income the household income is 170,000

and when does she graduate uh she'll graduate um she she's

doing part-time schooling so she's got uh I think six semesters left and we can

have both of the cars paid off before that are they are they subsidized or are they unsubsidized she's got two that are

getting taxes not taxes uh interest yeah

and the rest of them aren't um say uh 58

and 46 right you said 58,000 student loan debt and how much other yeah and then uh 9,000 on one car and 13 on another oh

okay so 31 and 58 right so 808 89,000 L than that no

we're at 880,000 we're right at 880,000 M yeah okay all right 79,000 I added it

wrong okay um and you make

170,000 yes okay explain to me why you

can't pay all this in a

year because we have eight

kids wow they don't eat that much you

can raise eight kids on 100 Grand well we the the eight kids are are

all teenagers you can raise eight kids on 100 Grand man there's Sports there's

food there's all that stuff it's just it's a year of sacrifice yeah um because it

170 minus 79 is one year you're debt

free I mean if you can't do it in a year you'll be able do it in 14 months uh I think you're looking you know when you said she's going to be six semesters and you're just going to barely have two cars paid off you're not making any progress no we'll we'll have we'll have the two cars paid off by August of next year yeah you ought to have

you ought to be done by August of next year the whole stinking thing are close so are you paying cash for her College as she goes yes we we have stopped with the student loans we are paying cash for everything now good and what is she studying uh she's getting her master's

and uh business like it's not the MBA but it's it's a a business okay and and her intention is to do what with her career with eight kids uh to help me run my

business I see okay while you have eight

kids yes that are teenagers okay yes all

right yeah good well you're doing well with your business sir is the 170,000 taxable net profit on your business or is that your gross revenues the the 100 100 of it is from

my business that's the uh the taxes and

everything no that's before taxes and everything before before expenses yes what do you take home from the business as payment um well I've been taking home uh

just $800 a week now what are you pay in taxes on on the $100,000 of Revenue that this business creates you do not have a household income of 170 that's why you couldn't see doing this because you don't have a net profit of 100,000 on the business that's your gross revenues okay yeah I'm not sure what it will be this year because I I didn't make this much last year so you make last year last year last year I only made 50,000

gross gross yeah did you net anything on

that um not much we we still with the

money that she paid in for her taxes we still got a tax return so and we have we have fixed that I know that you don't like to hear tax so we fixed that honey I'm still trying to figure out if your business is making a profit you you know what a profit is yes I know what a profit is it's your taxable income on the business yes on $50,000 did you have to

pay any taxes no because then you lost money on $50,000 worth of Revenue with with what

my wife paid in on on her check well here's what you your wife your wife check's got nothing to do with your business's profitability you need to hire someone to run your books yeah you need you need to sit down with a bookkeeper and learn how to do a set of books that's the next you you don't even have any idea if you're making a profit because a profit is your gross revenues minus the expenses associated with the business equals profit and I'm

not sure you made a profit on 50 Grand so I'm not sure you're making a profit on 100 Grand thus I think you're trying to raise kids on 70 grand actual Revenue which is your your

actual other income not business related income and yeah you're not going to pay it off in a year doing that so we need to figure out out whether this calculations right to tell you if my advice was bogus but I had bad information from you m even still they're still going to have to walk through a debt snowball and if the business is not making money they're going to have to find more money coming in yeah in order to make

this happen fast with eight kids you need to quit running getting a master's degree to run a business it is profit not making money yeah that's that's losing money at that

point yeah it's already losing money probably I can't tell can't tell cuz he doesn't know but anyway yeah get to the bottom of figure out if you're making a profit or not and if you're expanding that cuz you definitely increased your revenues but I'm not sure you increased your profits cuz if you lose 25 cents of watermelon you don't just get a bigger truck that's not how this works so

um all right uh then based on all of that what would I do yeah I might pay off the car first and let the student loans set to the side for a minute at least get rid of one of the dad gun payments out of your type budget but I I can't tell what your budget is so it's really hard to tell you if it's worth doing that if you truly made a profit of 100,000 which I think we've established you didn't um then you had $170,000

actual household income then I would go back to my original thing and say shut up and pay off the loans in a year or 14 months if 79,000 should go away but I don't think that's the numbers so I think it changed in the middle of the conversation it did this is the Ramsey

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[Music] Jade washaw Ramsey personality open phones at 8825 5225 Jade is my co-host today by the way

folks uh I do a show called The entree leadership podcast where I take calls on small business and we talk about the five stages of business and what it takes to level up in those five stages the six drivers that do that we've got a whole system for teaching small businesses to grow and run it's the Playbook the book entree leadership is a number one best seller it's

the Playbook that we've used to run Ramsey and we've grown it in 30 years from a card table in my living room to about a $300 million company so we'll walk you through this stuff and when you're at that beginning stage is a called a treadmill operator when it's just you

and all the revenue and all the production counts on you you kind of just own your job at that point when you're a small business person and you're doing doing all the work and um

you know and the revenue comes in because of you the production comes in because of you all that kind of stuff it's a one or two maybe a three-man lady show whatever there uh that's the normal way everyone starts but those are the stages that you have to get things in place like a good set of accounting books a good set of books uh to where you know what's happening with your money

if you do not make the money behave and those of you in the construction world the remodeling world you do job costing and you know which each job is profitable so you learn to do your estimating properly you you know you set up you know can I afford to hire someone well you have to can I afford to buy a piece of equipment or can I afford to rent

another space uh you have to be able to take look at your numbers and see if you have a profit to be able to do that because a business that doesn't make a profit is called a hobby it's kind of a harsh hobby actually cuz you're delusional and I've done it accidentally a time or two are do you run a nod for profit not intentionally but there's a time or two that

I almost have yeah so uh but yeah that's a uh you know so if you want to learn more onree leadership is the is one of the top business and Leadership podcasts out there you can join me I do it once a week and it's on the Ramsey networks and we would love to have you join us and check out the whole entree leadership brand we've got events

you can come to uh we've got a whole uh subscription process where we coach you called Elite and so all of that falls into that bucket for that our last caller uh Jeff is in Cleveland Ohio hi Jeff welcome to the Ramsey show Hello thank you very much for taking my call I really appreciate it sure what's up um I'm 52

years old my wife is 51 and a couple years ago she was diagnosed with a form of dementia um so we are TR navigating that

um as far as our financials go we have a

will a financial power of attorney healthc care power attorney a living will in place good um she's no longer on the de of the house but she has lifetime access to the residence through the will um she has no

property or any bank accounts in her name at all we have our six month emergency fund why did you take everything out of her name uh that's what the attorney had said for what I I

uh because she because she might misuse them if she if her dementia is Advanced uh it might be for medicare or

Medicare I'm not sure Medicaid is for poor people that's welfare yeah it only works no that won't

work okay um okay and so you were doing

real good you got all the documentation in place and uh how much do you have in

Investments uh as far as uh our Roth we

have 340 and as far as my workplace 401K

of 95,000 um within the last couple months

probably maybe three months uh I stopped contributing to my 401k and my RW so I could pile up money and a couple weeks ago I paid off my house good for you really really good so we're so we're on step seven um which kind of brings me to my question um with Ohio and

Medicaid uh the spouse can have up to $140,000 in assets except if you put the Roth IRAs

in payout status in an rmd payout status

those are not counted as assets so hey Hey heyy listen yeah

um you're you're trying to figure out a way to put your white you didn't mean to

but you're trying to figure out a way to put your wife in a welfare nursing home oh Medicaid Medicaid is Medicaid is

welfare you don't want to for po it's for poor people and you don't need to do that okay and and the guidelines are there to keep it from people that are only poor people putting people in those nursing homes okay okay and you're not poor people you can take care of your wife man I'm so sorry you're facing this but you've done a great job with money and you're in a position to love your wife well yeah yeah um just want to get

everything that I can out of the way so I know but but but the the goal the goal is to take care of her the goal is not to put her in a Medicaid nursing home right right let's change let's change the goal and you evidently make good money what do you make uh I make about 73 a year you've done a really good job on 73 dude is she still working oh no

she she's on uh Medicare she's not able to work or drive no okay so it's advancing then yeah I'm so sorry I'm sorry man

that's tough so where where are we today does she know everyone still or what how far progress um we have uh we have appointments every

six months uh last appointment you know the doctor was able to notice some decline uh she'll go through some more testing in another six months um but she is able you know she is at home um she knows you oh yeah yeah okay do

you not but you're but you're noticing

deterioration you know it varies some days are better than others always yeah yeah all right

um okay you're you're right to do what you've done every single thing you've done I agree with I think you've done a wonderful job sir you're a good man okay and I and I would I would agree with your last part of your financial moves to pile up cash and pile up cash and pile up cash and the next stage that is

fairly inexpensive compared to nursing home is in home care yeah okay and so if you can pile up

another hundred grand before you need in home care you probably have that

earmarked then to take care of her for

uh to pay for you know a nurse or help

of some kind uh of some level of professional to come in and help you and there may be a few days at the end of

life that that she will have to have care there Beyond in home but maybe not

maybe not um I can tell you this okay

Sharon and I have got U we're multi-millionaires and so I'm 63 I do not have nursing home insurance I'm a multi-millionaire I I will be at home I can afford full-time care for my

wife if something happens to her and you can too because you've done such a good job um but you're catching it way earlier but I mean by the time if something happens to Sharon and she's at home I can provide all the services of a nursing home privately with a private freaking Butler okay and it's still less

expensive than a nursing home mhm but I've just got that option and you've just about got yourself in that position and in a very heartbreaking situation you have been very um intentional and

wise I'm so proud of you well thank you i' I've just followed your principles well you you you You' had a you had an extra um grenade thrown in the middle of it

and so uh and it throws you off kilter

but you you know only if you are

completely broke if listen if you go visit a Medicaid nursing home and you go visit a private Care Nursing Home that you pay for you'll see what I'm talking about okay there there are a few of them that are excellent but it's government housing yeah versus private residence okay that's the I mean it it's it's it's welfare it's what for it's okay I'm not mad I'm not talking down my nose at somebody or something like that but if you've got the means your job is not to try to to dodge using your money

your job is to use your money because that's what is forced to take care of her yeah I think he's done a great job job wow in it's such a difficult situation they're they're so young early 50s man that's tough yeah and early

onset has a long lifespan it does so um

potten potentially so um yeah this could be a decade yeah but thankfully he did

set himself up paid for mortgage he's

been investing he couldn't have done any better very wise very wise

heartbreaking this is the ramsy show

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsy solutions you can drop in and have free homemade chocolate chip cookies and coffee anytime want we do this show from 1: to 4: central Time Monday through Friday it's completely free to come in and watch ugly paint dry on the wall no we're here it's fine it's fine very we're very entertaining so you don't want to miss

it there's always 50 to 200 folks sitting out here there's a museum or whatever you call it a timeline of the everything that's happened around here it's fun to visit the lobby and have an experience as a part of your Nashville visit we'd love to have you in the lobby also is a stage right in front

of our windows we call it the debt free stage on on it is David and Lisa hey guys how are you good how are you better than I deserve welcome where do you live we live in Austin area little town called Liberty Hill oh yeah fun welcome to Nashville good to have you guys so how much debt have you paid off paid off almost $300,000 or right at $300,000 wow good for you and how long did that take real slow five years ago

took about five years to get rid of it and your range of income during that time uh we started at 125,000 and we ended last year at 360

wow what do yall do for a living uh my

wife is retired now those the agreement of paying off the house hey but um I do

s I'm 100% commission salesperson in the hbac industry my commercial hbac oh yeah

way to go man amazing so your house is gone and paid off house is gone and paid off we looking at weird people wow what's the house worth um 500

all nice how much is in your Investments uh the last year has hurt us

a little bit but right around 400 so you're right out a million yeah we're right there way to go baby steps millionaires paid for house how old are you I'm 41 I'm 42 all right that feels

good yeah how's it feel to not have a payment in the world nice it's nice it

definitely feels special so we feel like we've been blessed and we don't feel like we deserve what we have well you do deserve it but we're better than we deserve yeah there we go wow so was it only the house or was there other debt included in the 300,000 we had 242,000

on the house and then we had about 50,000 in cars and then we had crit the rest was credit cards so we did the credit card we did the snowball got credit cards first and then we actually we traded some cars we did some things to get rid of that debt and then and then we just worked on the house um we actually paid 192,000 in the last 16

months wow You' been making serious money Lisa what did you do before you retired I've worked as a receptionist I worked as a school as a par professional for 5 years okay and you said I'm in but

when we're done I'm done yes yes I'm not

mad at that I like it yeah want to focus on our daughter Claire who's here with us to today and well it gives you a reason to push forward like that that's excellent now you got now you're just an old retired person at 42 had your reward at the end I love that yeah so what else are you planning to do I mean you've got you don't have a payment in

the world is there a trip is there something fun that you're going to do to celebrate this is kind of our trip we kind of no you got to do better than that we got we we got was cool but you got to do better well we we came in s Saturday to do this and then we're going to go to Nashville till next weekend this was kind of our whole like

we wanted to do this I've been a couple of times on business but they've never been so it's something that we wanted to do together oh we love the area so we're going to we're going to head into Nashville tonight and stay till Saturday yep oh good that's fun you'll have a blast you'll have a blast thank you guys no we appreciate you I mean like I said

we uh one of the things that we find interesting is I have a degree in history and I fell into hbac and just never got out and we feel like God has a plan for us because we should never have done what we've done not with uh I

wanted to be a teacher and never got to do it so I uh fell into HVAC sales and

never got out so but they all you know

doesn't always work out the way we plan so okay so how did you originally get connected with us in this process um I've done FPU through church a few times and we taught it once at our house during covid and everything and we saw you when you came to Austin couple years ago you come Austin a couple times actually I have a constant reminder of a key chain with your yeah yeah live like no one else yeah

so we have a constant reminder um but it's something that you know we've we've supported and we love and yeah we have family that my dad you know we grew up like in debt all the time and my dad's running the program now we're running the program my brother just sold some houses to pay off his debt and get stuff so we've got the family is in a better place

because you know we're all following you now changing your family tree absolutely all the limbs that's what we're trying to we're trying to do lead by example right yeah well done very well done what do you tell people the key to getting out of Deb is I mean you're debt free in your 40s house and everything baby steps millionaires pretty impressive just commitment being on the same page

you know we've sacrificed a lot and said no to a lot of things but what was the deepest cut on the sacrifice the thing you remember that was the biggest ouchie I mean probably vacations just

and family stuff we used to do a lot of Barbecues in the summer times and during football season where we'd have people and we kind of just cut it all off CU it got real expensive oh yeah you know doing it every weekend it starts up real fast so we we made a lot of sacrifices where we were those crazy people where we just weren't doing a lot of fun

and we were trying to do little day trips here in there instead of like big vacations and we we've become professionals at having breakfast for dinner at least twice a week and we've continued that so I was going to say breakfast for dinner is that really a sacrifice cuz that's that's legitimate it's a sacrifice for them now but now all now all that stops no we well no

I

mean I mean if you want to do it you can do it but the breakfast on your I mean it says on your keychain live like no one else so later you can live like no one else and give like no one else want you to enjoy this now yeah and we plan to and it's it's just something that's hard to break when you've been doing it for five years

I know but it's football season dude get the barbecue going get the barbecue going man get it back going again it's time you did you did a good job You've Won you sacrificed to win now enjoy the winnings that's right well done proud of you guys very good what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you told me that right you said commitment

and sacrifice but I didn't let I didn't let David answer yeah so the hardest thing for me is finding contentment I know Rachel talks about it all the time and my wife tells me all the time it's just finding we we've worked together really well but the budget is the biggest thing um you always say to let the other person you know I'm the one that controls

the budget but I've always given her you know she's always looked it over and made some change I forced her to make a change every single time so that she was committed to the process good um but working together through the whole thing I mean I couldn't have done it without them I mean the process of you know I

kind of bribed her a little bit with the retirement thing as soon as we get it done you can retire but in reality I think she just gave you her terms yes well I don't think you bried her at all this is this is what it takes to get me in yeah this is what it takes to get where we want to be so good we're excited about

it Go terms of surrender well done very well done all right you guys excellent job hey we've got the live and give box for you uh the baby steps millionaires you made it there or almost so close we're calling it and depending on whether the market goes up today or tomorrow there you go and a Total Money Makeover book to give away to someone and a Financial Peace University membership to give away while you're continuing to lead classes thank

you for leading the classes it makes a big difference people go to those classes as you know their life gets changed yeah and uh you got it's because of people like you coordinating so thank you for being a coordinator we really really appreciate it and you're a perfect example too I know right we appreciate everything you do yes well God bless y'all all right David and Lisa

and Claire Austin Texas area 300,000 paid off house and everything weird people baby steps millionaires did it in 5 years making 125 up to now 360 count it down let's

hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're debt

free

yeah 11 it

yes man oh man oh

man hey those two leaned in they sure did pretty incredible the whole family

that's that's that's well done well played this is the Ramsey

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d Wasa Ramsey personality is my co-host Today podcast

reviews five stars the J rant on the

student loans was powerful she really painted the depth of the problem and the hurt that can come from them the best rant I've heard in months it should be required listening to every semester of high school and college way to go Jade a jade rant a jade rant there you go have you uh have you previously named that or um I think they got it from the Dave rant oh I think it's a subsidiary okay

subid holy own subsidiary okay uh I

drive every morning as an Uber lift driver in New York City I listen the podcast with my passengers some don't pay any attention but those that do listen ask and become interested I share my experience and my baby steps that I'm

at and I really enjoy getting compliments from the other Ramsey followers wow that get into the C get into Uber yeah uh glad I'm not the only listener in New York City well I'm I love that I'm glad you're not too but I'm glad both you found each other no I'm kidding there's a bunch da that's how I found you if somebody had you on the car radio my brother had you on the car radio well there you go forced forced listening there you go Lara's in Sarasota hi Laura welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi Dave how are you better than we

deserve what's up so I have a question we're paying off

the L of our debt I have about 66,000 on my car I just want to know do you think I should be able to get my nails done while I do that I am unqualified to answer this question as I am to answer can I get my hair done when you uh do this so however Jade is sitting next to me with fluorescent Nails she is qualified ah so what Sam

and I did when we were paying off our debt is we kind of I I did not get my nails done and every so often I was able to get my hair done so it was a trade-off because it can get expensive if you're going every two weeks and you're doing the hair thing and you're doing I don't know what you're getting your eyebrows you know whatever done

it get another thing I'm inexperienced at da you don't do you don't wax a whole bunch of these things I don't know anything about so the point is it's a lot of grooming it can get expensive um some of it it's like yeah you need somebody to cut your hair every now and then or you need you know whatever that is but Nails truly is one of those

things that it is cost to get your nails done Laura it's about $50 each time so and

how often how often would this come

up it's every two weeks was right on the

hammer y okay all right and so I I you

know I grew up redneck hillbilly so I don't know anything about this but when I was growing up people did their own Nails is that a possibility see I work in the professional uh industry and I have

really brittle nails and so when I don't have them done I they look gross and disgusting I say I wasn't say disgusting I said I mean like I mean my my little sister and like they would paint stuff on there do y'all still do that I mean do humans do that do them themselves ever no every all the women are shaking their head now yout like I'm from

another planet you can paint them but she wants an application that's going to make them hard so that they don't break and I will say um Laura you can you can buy the dip powder and you can do those yourself and it is a lot less expensive I don't do it but I have friends that do it and that might be you do it when you weren't getting your nails done no

because I but yours weren't brittle no they weren't brittle or I'm learning so much today you can even buy the jar of

like the hard gel that you can polish on and so that's that'll save your nails without you having to get them done where is Rachel Cruz when I need I feel your pain though look I feel her pain is that's a sacrifice but it's only temporary what's your household income we make about 200,000 and the

66,000 on the car is the only thing we have left but who whose car is it yours

or it's mine sell the car and yeah we

are so we are that's our plan we're gonna sell the car obviously we're upside down on it so we're gonna have we're GNA take our three to six months and pay off the difference and then I'll get like a $20,000 car and we'll pay that off in about three to four months and then we'll pay the house off wait wait a minute how much do you have in savings we have about 15,000 in savings

and that pays off the difference when you sell the car but then you were going to go finance a $20,000

car yes no I don't think I would do

that

wow okay so here here's the thing

um I mean we had a lot of fun with your nail question and it's fine to talk about 100 bucks here you make $200,000 a year you got other problems than a 100 bucks so are how How Deeply do youall I

mean it feels like he cut your nails and cut your nail budget back and he's still buying like tools and stuff at Home Depot or something I don't know it where in the flip is 200,000 going that we can't pay 66 off minus 15 which is 51 in

about four or five months why don't you pay this car off our our house payment is about 3,100

a month because we bought at the height that should be fine okay she have $36,000 a year going out on a house payment you make 200 mhm um yeah I guess that's a good question maybe we need to sit down do you do a

budget we are going to start doing a

budget okay you don't cut you don't cut your nails out until you guys get the rest of this fixed yeah when you sit down and do a budget that's going to reveal the budget is like bloodwork it reveals everything going on where the money's going where the problem is and so when you sit down do that you're going to realize oh I've got bigger fish to yeah nails

if you want to cut that that's fine but you're going to see all the little things that's making this difficult here here's the thing if you guys have gone through your budget together with a fine tooth comb and you've slam dunked your $200,000 income towards 51,000 because

you got 15,000 in the bank to throw at this um I think you're going to find a lot more opportunities to get your uh get your goals hit very quickly than your nails and the fact that your nails were set over to the side as the issue while you guys still haven't done the budget um kind of makes me want to fuss

at him because he has you guys got to get in there together and he's got to C

I'm just telling you there's some crap he's doing that's more than those stupid nails when you get in the budget you're gonna find it yeah yeah there's there's something he's that he's got that's his little pet thing and he didn't want to give up the gym membership while he's making you cut your na cut cut out the nails all that I I only know this because I'm the guy that did that kind of stuff so um but yeah I think when you

both have a very clear print out of

what's going on like Jade said the blood work is done you get your every dollar budget both of you are looking at it both of you say we're willing to cut deeply and then we're not going to cut out $100 a month for this or we are going to cut out $100 a month because it's only for five months yeah I'll do them myself for 5 months

but you're giving that over there up and we're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation and we're not doing this and we're not doing that and we're not doing this if I'm giving up the nails that's a fair statement are you guys putting a lot into retirement yeah so we actually did complete dat the Financial Peace University uh during the co time and

we paid off all of our debt and then we made a stupid decision we bought a stupid car and then we bought another stupid car and we don't have piece anymore so we're getting back into FCU and you've still got your retirement coming out mhm yeah and my guess is it's

quite a bit it's not just 15 is it it's not $50 no it's more than that I rest my case there you go okay get back on the detailed scorched Earth baby step two budget the two of you together stop your retirement use all non-retirement funding to clear this car up you're right it was a stupid decision yes you fell off the wagon yes you're getting back on

the wagon but that's not we don't go straight to the you can't get your nails done while I put 15 % into retirement that's right thank you hello he he's not following our system okay we're telling you to stop everything and get this done and then I may cut the nails too not cut the nails cut the nail

uh expenditure treatment out uh whatever the flip you call it and um anyway but that's more symbolic with your income that you've gotten everything else going than it is actual yeah does that make sense and sometimes because you're changing Behavior symbolic things symbolic sacrifices are

valuable okay I remember I had a old boy from the country at Financial Peace University one time he came in big old guy and his wife was sitting in a small group crying and she said I love my husband so much he just sold his knife collection it was like his prize thing

yeah meant a lot to but he said my wife and my kids's future means more than those knives he said 1,100 bucks it didn't really matter cuz they had $60,000 in debt but it was it was symbolic I'm that he's putting the family before meoo this is the ramsy

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show Dave here you can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes download the Ramsey Network app

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[Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 8825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money Derek is in Arkansas and starts off this hour hey Derek what's up hey Derek or sorry hey Dave um uh

thank you for taking my call um I'll get right to the point my wife just wrote a New York Times bestselling book um that released less than a month ago um we've already started to see some income from that uh most recently a check for $50,000 that came in on the the date of the release um and then I'm a longtime listener first-time caller uh listen ever since

I was a missionary in Nepal um my supervisors gave me your materials over 10 years ago and just appreciate what you do so my wife and I U were talking about this and she recently uh got a message from Rachel Cruz who reached out to her to my wife and um and

just said she' read the book and uh so my wife and I thought well you know we really appreciate you guys and the principles that you stand for so I wanted to um just call in and see what your thoughts were about what we should do with um some of the income that we're getting I've already maxed up my retirement in my job um we're debt free

um we've already maxed out a raw ir raay and didn't know if we should open a a brokerage account um just with an S&P

index um S&P 500 Index Fund so the house

is paid off yes sir yes sir you're 100% debt free and everything that's correct way to go dude how old are y'all I'm 34 my wife is 32 so this so

this uh 50,000 on the book is spare change right now it's you're over and above the baby steps well we're on baby steps I guess it would be five and seven um we've got three boys uh ages one to eight so um

okay so you might want to use some of the 50 for Education you're saying correct have thought about that U didn't know if we should put a certain percentage of that toward kids college and then uh some toward a an index fund

just to keep some liquid cash because if we did move we would want to pay cash for a house so if there was how much is in your emergency fund uh about $50,000 right now not

counting the book deal what's your normal household income uh fluctuates irregular um I just

graduated graduated from law school and uh started Prosecuting r year so uh we

had uh with partial year work last year about uh 65 uh looking at about 150 this

year and about 85 next year and that's just my income plus a little bit of income in addition to B my wife brings in from social media things like that yeah well done well played yeah I think you got it down it's exactly what I would do with it I would if it were me and I had that money in your shoes I'd probably break it into thirds

and give save spend it I'd give some of it I'd save a third you know for your college fund or whatever you have set up 529s and then I'd come up with something you guys want to do maybe you're saving for a trip maybe it's you know a vehicle you're saving for whatever that spinage that you're wanting and I'd break it up like that or maybe in fourths since you've got two kids

you put a quarter for each of them for Education you think just opening one account and then um for 529 from from

Child correct for I would put a little in I'd open three I'd put a little in each of their names oh it's three kids I'm sorry I said too but yeah and I the reason I do that Derek is just so I can tell them over and over that this is their college fund which presupposes that they're going to college and then if we want to change that as

they get later in life I can not force it on them but I just want to brainwash them that continuous learning throughout your life is a brilliant idea like you went back to law school after the mission field okay so continuous learning after after you know the last thing you read That's non-fiction after house school is nothing then you're not going to grow in life so you adding learning whatever

it is whether it's for your education or not uh isn't there so Rachel reached out

to your wife about her New York Times bestselling book so uh your wife is

Jill yes Jill dug duer now Dillard yeah

yeah counting the cost is the book right

yeah okay all right so the Jill Dugger book yeah because Rachel and I were talking about the other day and uh cuz the book is impressive and Rachel was saying she was going to try to get her on the show or at least do some kind of social media collab with her yeah okay

well I didn't know about that but that's probably why she reached out to her yeah because we were both she and I were talking about your old story and your life and everything um and um because

I'm I'm uh of course old and I remember all that stuff uh from a thousand years ago uh the whole goth thing and all that stuff and then it's very interesting it's very interesting and so um and and then to see what you guys have done as a couple is impressive but you guys are really it's very cool at least the outside looking in I I don't know you personally obviously but um well now I have to read the book yeah you do yeah

what' you say it was called It's called counting the cost a lot of it really goes into what

especially John deloney goes into and his his influence recently has helped us as a couple so appreciate this wonderful thing of boundaries and forgiveness correct and not you know and not not don't spend your whole life being defined by bitterness and so on so yeah it's pretty cool and you you're I didn't know the part about you going back to law school that's very impressive good for you thank you so well done dude

decided to go back to law school through through all of this and and the book just came out so it hit the times in the last few weeks right right about two weeks ago hit the times congratulations came on the 12 thank you yeah that's that's impressive yeah cuz the times is not not known for putting Christians on the on their list so um they kind of known for not doing it actually but yeah but right that's

I'm glad you did that's awesome man very good very good yeah so I'm with Jade I would go thirds uh throw some at the kids to make sure we got the college thing beefed up a little you're going to have enough income to make sure they're okay on educational choices later in life anyway you're going to be fine um and enjoy some of it and be generous with some of

it I'm with her give save spin give save spin love that very cool that's exciting very cool how do you get on the New York Times best like how does that work uh it's up to them has nothing to do with actual numbers sales it's not sales no it's an editorial list so they decide so like it's not off it's not unusual for one of our books to out sell their number one yeah by by five to one well that's what

I know that's what yeah that's pretty standard yeah basically my rule is New York time sucks so well now they're not going to put you on the list they were not going to put me on anyway I've said they suck for a long time I've been on there a couple times been there done that didn't help me a bit didn't change anything no one ever no one ever sent me a check cuz

I was a New York Times bestseller not once uh but but because I had a bestseller I've gotten a lot of checks because that means we sold an actual number of books that's a different thing that's what counts I guess but I'm glad they got on I'm not being not being jealous of them I'm happy young couple with a brand new book and and the Apparently I haven't read

it but apparently the book is good richel was talking about it so good stuff that's fun you never know never who's in our audience I know this is the ramsy

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us America open phones at 8825

5225 Riley's in Raleigh North Carolina hi Riley welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave hi Jay how you doing great what's up so uh I am

considering selling my condo and because

I've got some neighbors that I am not too happy with and the housing market is expensive in the area so I'm considering selling my condo moving into an apartment and using the money I make from selling my condo to pay off my student loans and if I did that I would have no debt and I'm just as to whether

or not that is a good

choice so you want to sell your condo your neighbors are kind of annoying you don't necessarily want to be paying for this anyway how much student loan debt do you have it's about 88,000 what will

your condos sell for um I think it would sell for uh around 260 or 270 so My Equity would be

around around $100,000 okay so you owe

around 160 or 170 okay okay and what do you make yeah yeah uh I make about 95

and how old are you uh 32 and you're

single correct okay how long have you

had the condo um just about exactly three years

what's wrong with the neighbors um so they are renters they're

they're below me and um it's been a

plethora of issues over the course of the years different different bad rers

in that same unit over the course of three years uh smoking uh really loud

dogs that are left on their porch I live above them the dogs that are under me barking waking me up all night and and uh on top of that and the the owner of the unit and the HOA are not helpful do you think you'd want it I'm just wondering why is the HOA not

helpful they basically just don't do anything yeah you make complaints and they um you know it's it's a very

laidback HOA I would say which I guess in some ways could be good but in in my circumstance it's you know not helpful yeah I okay there's a couple things number one if you want to do your plan that's fine um sometimes there's a uh um sometimes

there's a time to leave and um I'm not

selling something that I own because of renters and an HOA that won't do its job

I'm going to start jacking some people up mhm like if the HOA got a letter from your attorney that said we're getting ready to sue you guys for violate for not doing your job which is making the rental units have renters that freaking

behave that's like the hoa's job in a condo they don't do much else that's

what you're paying for yeah correct time for Barney F to get his one bullet out

which is always who runs the HOA right

yeah you're right is there anything else about the condo that would make you want to leave other than the neighbors um you know I would

like to you know if if it was more affordable I would like to purchase a home that the the situation is I bought

my condo in 2020 and the interest rates were really low so I've got a very cheap cond you know it's cheap to live there right now I'm paying around 1,00 total with the HS whereas if I want to buy even a small home in the area you know the interest rates are now around 7% so I don't have really a cheap I don't have an equivalent option right um and you

know is a small condo it's it's a place I would not live in you know for a long time anyway it's okay to sell Jake I'll tell you the other problem you're going to run into when you sell it the real estate agent that comes over to list it is going to smell smoke and hear barking

dogs I know I am worried about that and they're going to they're going to say this is going to affect your buyer so these people have devalued your condo by their misbehavior yeah like it's not going to bring as much because people aren't going want to pay for a smoke infested dog barking bunch of crap well that's one reason that he needs to yeah you got to get this cleaned up yeah this HOA

yeah yeah they they really gonna have to stop it I mean it's it's ridiculous and it's frustrating because it's not like it's not 247 bad where you know I could

see an in where um because it's it's

what I've experienced where sometimes I'll have a week where not that bad and I feel like if there was somebody you know a buyer looking at it they might not notice that stuff but then there are times when it is bad where you know I could see both instances where a buyer could come in there at a bad time and say oh I'm not buying this and

I can the opposite to because I'm the one I witness both myself but you don't want to risk you don't want to you don't want to gamble that you know the the open house or you know on the week in the open houses is the the weekend they're throwing a rager call here's what you can do call the um our jump on line at Ramsey solutions.com find one of our real estate Professionals in

the area that we endorse that are ramsy trusted tell them when they come over to look to call the HOA and say we're getting ready to put this on the market and if the renter downstairs isn't behaving I'm going to advise my client to sue your butt off and let the realtor play the heavy and see if we can straighten these renters up for 30 days and get

this thing sold yeah yeah and then move I I just I just have trouble letting these people run me off without

that's it's exactly how I feel yeah I feel like I don't like them controlling my life you I don't you know because I feel like I made a good purchase and you know I have it's kind of what an HOA is for it's so that people you know if you want to be a if you want to raise hell and throw parties and have barking dogs you're supposed to go out in

the country not in a condo project hello I mean this is not it's not rocket surgery here people yeah all right wow amazing I know right yeah that that's what I would do I think you put it on the market and let the real estate agent call the HOA and uh tell them to um tell tell them to be real tough on them and uh to threaten them uh that

they I want this crap straightened up seriously I'm getting ready to put this house on the market and if there's condo on the market and if this unit doesn't sell or it sells for Less because of smoking dogs I'm coming after y'all for the difference in the Lost value because you didn't manage the property like your like your job is

yes why is that these HOAs man they're usually they dri I hate them they drive me nuts I live in one that drives me nuts it's just God have you ever been on the board of one no can I tell you that one time were you

were I'm G to blame it on Sam Sam was we

were but it was really Sam he was trying to make a difference and they did a while found out this yeah no it's just

God I I should I'm the guy that ought to be on a piece of ground somewhere middle nowhere but I'd be living by myself because my wife ain't going to live there so I'm stuck with these choices in my life you so I'm I'm stuck worse than

Riley is I mean it's you know so yeah

Riley's in a pretty bad way yeah it's bad sell it get you an apartment then immediately start saving and get back in the real estate market as quickly as possibly can Riley let's not let this be a reason you don't own a piece of property 2 years from now so many people

are struggling with that his main thought though which is I bought I have such a low interest rate and I'm stuck and now I'm just I have L people are waiting on rates to come down to move because of that I know and I got bad news for you it's going to be a while boys and girls and while you're waiting house prices are going to go up they are

yes they are we told you that this time last year and what we predicted is exactly come true yeah we told you in a real estate live stream that we did last year at this time that rates were that house prices were going to go up about 7% in the year 2023 and that's what they're trending right now I mean I know people who are sitting on

the money they could buy but they're just like uh it like grosses them out no like to have the right down payment but the interest rates are just grow grossing them out I'm like if you got a high interest rate when the rates come down just refinance exactly or better than that pay the stupid thing off and get rid of the interest rate you know I mean

there there's a couple ways around this so yeah it it's this trying to time this

stuff but it's a generation that's never seen High interest rates and this these are not high interest rates by the way you need to talk about this more often Dave 1982 when I got out of college they were 18% 177% fixed rate in 84 they were

down to 14% fixed rate now that's high

and so that's back when the dinosaurs roam the Earth you Boomer yeah I know I know I know that works right but U but I also know what high is cuz high is all relative six is high if you've been used to three that's right it's relative there you go this is the Ramsey

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thanks for joining us America reminder the money and marriage getaway October 19th and 21st is just a few days away

you and your spouse will be equipped with tools to cast a vision for your family set goals create a life you both love uh you will have the undistracted

time to disconnect from everyday life and reconnect with your spouse interactive sessions and uh all kinds of sessions with Rachel Cruz Dr John deloney on money communication boundaries intimacy

tickets are $799 for this multi-day event it's here on the Ramsey campus if you're out of debt you got room in the budget this is a must do the money and marriage getaway a very luxurious weekend here on the Ramsey campus um for

couples coming up October 19th through

the 21st check it out Ramsey solutions.com events to get your tickets

now on the debt free stage in the headquarters ERS solution of Ramsey Solutions here in the lobby uh Joshua and Becca are with us hey guys how are you good how are you better than I deserve welcome where are you from We're from Indianapolis Indiana all right right how much have you paid off how much debt $50,000 woohoo 50k and how

long did this take seven months all right wow Jack and your range of income during that time 83,000 83 what do you all do for a living I'm a personal fitness coach mhm and I work at a church a local church oh wonderful what kind of debt was of 50k student loans all right whose student loans yours or hers mine yours all right how long you'all been married a little over a year ah

so we get married and then we pay off Joshua student loans yes first order of business yep tell me the story what happened here yeah so I grew up uh and my dad was a big big fan of yours and so he put that in us uh since we were little growing up and uh so when I met Joshua and he was like I have student debt

I was like oh no and so if you

weren't cute that'd be a deal breaker I know but he is so it worked um but and so then we just like talked about it and I actually like gave him your book and he started reading it and um applying it and so I knew that he like had the ability like he wanted to do this as well uh and so then well he's a personal trainer for god sakes discipline is his middle name right right yeah uh

and so then he got the app the uh every dollar app and started working that and making his own budget and I remember he texted me one day he was like I made a budget he like look at it I was like this is awesome look at it yeah so you're a keeper I know I was like that's awesome so um we made the budget and then um decided

when we got married that uh my father had like saved up money and had make us like a wedding fund and so we were like I don't really want a super big fancy wedding and I'd rather like not have a lot of debt so we did we got married in my parents front yard and it was beautiful and awesome uh and then we took the remainder of

it and then my savings uh and then we uh he paid his savings and we paid it off so wow wow boom just like that I mean you attacked it we did yeah look at you that's a sacrifice when you know there's money that you can have this big wedding a big party and you say no this is more important that's one day this is the rest of our life yeah exactly

and I think too just um growing up like being Believers and just like knowing that Christ sacrificed for us of just that like he paid our Eternal debt and so like At first I was like I don't want to give him like my money but then it's like no we're married like we're one and like this is what Christ has done for us and so to be able to like combine that

and like be truly one and like to pay off that debt and was really really cool so Joshua she comes at you with all this stuff did you go like whoa I mean at first it was a different approach uh so I mean my my parents did Financial

Peace growing up I have a special needs brother so you know the whole financial situation was a little bit different uh so to go from that you know to this is a completely different side of it you know my parents did help us along the way um but yeah I was like okay I got to do something here I got to step up if I'm going to be a husband

I need to be a leader and so I was like I got to make change look at that how old are you too I'm 27 she's 26 way to go way to go amazing well you leaned in knocked it out fast and that's got to feel good you got to feel strong oh yeah both of you I mean you did grown up stuff here I know right was very very difficult

I mean exciting be Becca's uh not a princess she's like a woman no she's a woman all right thank you she's got she had a full agenda and a full plan and made sure it got executed that's there's not there's not yeah that's that's good stuff well done y'all very well done thank thank you okay now that you've done it uh you see the principles of the process

I mean you teach principles when you're teaching as a as a trainer right and uh you know we have principles that are guiding these baby steps are guiding this process what did you all observe that you tell other people here's what you do if you're going to get out of debt you got to do these three things or these four things what what was the thing you think of

I think one of the big things first off is just communication espe from two different financial backgrounds what that like and saying okay we're a couple now God said we're one so we got to figure out how we can do that to start off so definitely starting off with communication and then coming up with the plan and then figuring out exactly what we need to do with that plan

and what that step is going to take and making sacrifices so even though I was working as a personal trainer still have been you know I worked at Chick-fil-A for a little bit to earn a little extra income on top of that in the evenings and then uh before we got married paying off even car loans debt and stuff like that too and then going from there

and like okay like if we're going to attack this we're going to attack this and get it paid off cuz most people my age most friends are not in this position being in their 20s so we wanted to glorify God along the way but understand like we don't have to just be in debt and that's not the not the right way to do things not the plan

you had to feel like when the student loans started back with payments the other day that you dodged a bullet absolutely we did we were like watching it while we were paying it off and like okay they pushed it back more okay we got to go before they put in interest like we got to keep paying it and like I think that was the one good thing about

the co year honestly yeah we like thank you for that because I remember I submitted my first payment was $150 and then by the time we got married I was like oh we got huge payments here and then yeah about in April we were like oh we're debt free and it it felt weird it was but it was great we're like what the heck yeah just like that boom yeah wow

I love it if you want something different you have to do something different and you guys embraced that it was it's different right to give back some of your marriage money it's different fore when they're you know engaged to say you know when we get married some of my savings is going to go to pay off this debt like that that's all completely different from what culture might say

you know to work a second job in the evenings Chick-fil-A in the evenings so you guys really did sacrifice to win that's amazing yeah yep well done love it proud of you thank you I'm betting both sets of parents were bragging on you the whole way cheering you all oh yeah awes yeah that's great couple of financial peace babies one more intense than the other but there

we go I love it still very good good job you guys very well done your future I mean when you you can take any problem and set it in front of you too and you do exactly what you did here yeah you analyze the problem and say what must be true what have we got to do to get this done all right lean in next thing you know game on

and you'll have these things pop up from time to time hopefully this one will never pop up again but uh but you'll have other things as you go through your life and now you're equipped so that's the gift I mean the getting out of debt is powerful but the process that you use is even more powerful yeah so working together having a plan thank you to the every dollar app people well done well done good here's my budget look at

it I like that I sounded like that I did it best

text very good we've got the live and give box for you that's the baby steps millionaire book which is your next step on the journey to be able to live and give like no one else and then of course B The Total Money Makeover you can give that to someone else get them started Financial Peace University if you hadn't gone through it go through it together if you have give it to somebody and uh that's why we call it live and give so enjoy well done you guys congratulations

Heroes you're Heroes man that's powerful Joshua and Becca Indianapolis Indiana

50,000 paid off in 7 months been married 12 months did it making 83,000 count it down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 we're Deb

free that's how that's

done I love it who

man oh man if everybody could get it that quick Dave it'd be so much easier oh gosh yeah yeah that's uh but that's the good news about being second generation Financial Peace you know Financial Peace babies it's even if you got a if you're a little off you still can boom you hit it you know you know if you hit it it'll work it's like um yeah that's that's different hey you're doing an every dollar webinar tomorrow Tuesday at 11:30 that's right for those of

you listening totally free that is the uh 20th uh no it's not it's the 10th the 10th tomorrow at uh at

11:30 central time we're going to be doing a few others if you want to join the free every dooll webinar on how to do just what he did I did a budget so you'll be able to do it tomorrow right that's right and everydollar.com budgeting sign up with Jade for tomorrow or uh Jade later or Rachel Cruz or George camel we're doing them all through the fall here you're going to want to sign up and be part of that just like he did this is the Ramsey

Show

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our scripture of the day Romans 13:1 let every person be subject to the governing authorities for there is no Authority except from God and those that exist have been instituted by God Milton

Freedman said if you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand oh gosh sheesh

Nobel prizewinning Economist by the

way oh you gotta love it Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host today

uh we are in the last day of Dr John

delon's Book Week launch uh we launched it one week ago tomorrow his new book is called building a non-anxious life and

it is the six daily habits uh that are

needed to do that to deal with anxiety to prepare for when anxious things happen your glass is full and you can deal with them and uh this is uh this is a lot of Neuroscience a lot of nerd speak all boiled down where normal people can read it like me and uh Dr

John this is a second book his first was a number one National bestseller um own your past change your future building a non-anxious life has already sold a bazillion copies in uh the pre-sale and in the first week thank you guys for the response to this we'll know for sure where we land on the list in a day or two but pretty much suspect

it'll be number one based on our based on our sales um and normal normal book business stuff but we'll see we'll see we've sold a bunch of them and you guys are we appreciate you thank you for picking it up that you're going to be glad you did it's worth every penny it's a great book ramseys solutions.com you can get it there you can get it anywhere great books are sold Amazon Barnes & Noble all of that building a non-anxious Life by Dr John deloney Britney's in

Phoenix hi Britney welcome to the Ramsey show thank you so much Dave sure what's

up so my husband and I are wondering if

we should sell our investment property to pay off of our debt all of our debt

okay uh do you like the investment

property I love it but we have a kid on

the way and so things are changing for us um and our income is going to significantly drop you're going to stay

home okay your your phone's breaking up like crazy um having trouble see if you can get somewhere where we can hear you but anyway so what do you

make um that we make about 125 125 what

do you make yeah I make uh 75 of

that okay what's the investment property

worth uh 200,000 and we take home uh we net

$1300 each month on it what does it what

do you owe on it um

we what do you owe on it it's free and clear we don't owe anything oh okay and what is your pro your personal residence mortgage is how much uh 345 currently okay and you you

have 145,000 other than this

um I'm sorry I I didn't okay you have

200 if you sell the rental you owe 345 you said pay off your house yeah do you have other money saved uh no we do not we' be paying off

our uh some of our other Consumer Debt student loans and medical bills that's $882,000 so um we would were hoping to

that L and then to the where did this where did this rental property come from how'd you end up with a paid for $200,000 house if you're this broke so um we actually we wrapped it

into the financing of our our home

oh so our primary residence is worth

$500,000 and this invested property is worth $200,000 so we've got mortgage and then $882,000

of other debt and we're wanting to sell the investment to pay um these the debt

consum loans and medical yes I would sell it yeah yeah I would sell it um you pay

off 82,000 in Consumer Debt you got a baby on the way you $345,000 mortgage

you're getting ready to be making $50,000 a year I'm not sure how you're paying for a $345,000 mortgage you may be selling your home too that's what I'm thinking um I don't think you can service that debt on 50 Grand unless they I'm not sure about it but unless they sold their existing house and moved into the rental and then had that one free and clear might go that way yeah

because I don't think you can I mean if if you quit you make 75 of the 125 he's got he's got $50,000 income paying a payment on yeah that's G to your payments got to be four grand anyway and yeah you're not going to make that your payment's going to be as much as his income mhm yeah that's not going to work hun they got to get out of their existing home you can't keep the house mhm you can't afford it so yeah we're

selling the wrong house uh you're moving into the paid for rental the good news is it's paid for or you're working yeah you got to decide but if you want to keep this house the one you live in you're working and you sell the rental and payoff if you if you're working you sell the rental and pay off all the other debt you can probably make it it's tight

then yeah but um but you can't make it you can't pay the payments on this and you pay down a little bit on the 345 and redo the loan at a higher interest rate you're not going to you're not going to net anything different so there's nothing happening here kid I'm sorry

yeah that that the house you bought you can't afford if you want to quit and stay home with a baby and either one's an okay Choice with me m uh personally

I'd move into the rental and stay home because that's your that's your heart's desire exactly I'd rather stay home than have the house the big house mhm uh the house you can't afford but you can't pay the payments on his income and if they are living in the $200,000 house paid for their income's freed up they can start stacking away money they're 100% free yeah there's more freedom there you get to stay home you have no debt that

would be my that'd be my solu and you start you know you start stacking cash and then if you want to move up in house in a few years you'll be able to do that with cash but right you cannot afford a payment on 345,000 making 50 Grand I'm

100% sure of that and there's not not any numbers you gave me here unless there's a piece that Britney didn't give me yeah that uh that changed that if there's a $200,000 laying somewhere else but I didn't hear that you did ask that because you said when she wanted to pay off the debt for the the their existing home you said do you have another 145 she said no

so yeah we have it no we have another 82 in consumer was our answer yeah that's it Jay's in Tampa hey Jay welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave and Jade can you guys hear me okay can yes better thank you how can we help thanks thanks for taking my call

okay so I I just I'm going to hit you with some numbers um I the main question is uh I want to know if we should use

the check that we're expecting from the car insurance I just got into a car accident a few days ago and you're get did you total it yes did you owe money on free and damage no free and clear we just paid it off okay what's it worth uh it's worth between 9 and 11 buy

another car with with it rather than yes cuz I was going to use it towards the IRS cuz they're breeding down our throats right now that could be different yeah that does change what do you owe the KGB for well uh before my wife and I got

married um how much is the

balance 91 almost 9,200 and you got

another car 9200 I have another car we

make 140 a year pay it off and save two

months and get your different car mhm pay off the IRS and then save like crazy get get those people out of your life yeah I until you said that until you said that I was real sure yeah like Jade said that's a game changer okay I thought so what I'm me squeeze in one more question how do you I know you normally say stop all 401K

contributions two I still do what if you

can use the 401K contributions to break even on your taxes no no no no you don't break break even on your taxes that's not how taxes work you don't break even tax deductions you save a quarter on the dollar you don't break even you put in $100 it saves you $25 on taxes you're broke you can't do that you need to get the stinking IRS paid off pile up some cash get

the emergency fund built make sure you get you another car purchase get all the debts cleared then build your emergency fund well you got one out of two not bad not bad Jade good show

today good show of the team in the booth excellent excellent calls coming in puts us hour the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ

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Jesus hey what's up guys it's Jade if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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## 181. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 27, 2023)


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live from the headquarters of Ramsey

Solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships George camel Ramsey

personality is my co-host today he's

also the co-host of smart money happy hour and the host of The George camel show very popular on YouTube both Ram

Network Productions and we'll be taking

your calls the phone number is

8825

5225 Brian starts this hour in St Louis

hey Brian welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey thanks for the call sure what's

up uh my wife and I are trying to build

a house um and we're discussing how much

we should have saved ahead of time I

would like to have a 100,000 saved and

she wants to start now we're at about 40,000 saved M okay and uh so she isn't

as concerned about the down payment as you are uh she's just excited to get

going more so than concerned about the

down payment which you are yeah so what

does the payment process look like for this build when is all the money

due uh well we haven't started anything

yet um and so I would like to save a

hundred hopefully get 200 out of our

house house and then maybe go 350 total

and then just have 50 left to finish up

when we're all done M what do you make

which we could what your hous so inome uh about about a hundred okay so you're

talking about a $350,000

build okay and you got 40 how long do it

take you to get to 100 if we want your way what was your goal uh a little over

a year mhm so we're not arguing about 60

we're arguing about a year right she want to go now you want

to go in a year cor okay

um which means that if we go her way you

end up with a $100,000 mortgage not a $50,000 mortgage yes or $110,000 mortgage to be

precise right am I doing all this correctly Brian yes okay how sure are you this

home is going to cost

350 uh not sure that's just the goal

that we'd like to keep under do you have a blueprint no we haven't started anything

do you have a builder we have nothing just discussions

you own the land uh we have family land set

aside okay uh sidebar before sidebar

before we keep going family land set aside needs means that there needs to be

a plat that is deeded to

you and and you have the right to sell

it someday if you all don't want to live there anymore otherwise don't do this

deal right you don't build your house on

Daddy's land or your house on a lot that

Daddy gave you off his land and he says

you can never sell it neither one of

those those are both deal Killers it

would be purchased okay and you would

own it oh wait a minute what does the land the land is part of the

350 yes okay and then you would have

full rights emotionally relationally

legally to sell it later if you want

to yes okay I don't I I've taken that

call a lot in the last 30 years someone

that's stuck in a piece of property because everybody's going to be mad if they sell their own house right don't do that all right now

all right back to the deal so the land

is how much uh 40,000 and that's included in

the 350 did you say or not included yes

okay all right we think but we you

really have nothing to base this on except square foot and you think you're going to build x square fet I I would

tell you this I'm in the middle of building a house right now um it took us

nine months from the time we decided we

wanted to to get a blueprint a builder

and a budget okay completed

completed I mean from day one and I've

done it before so I'm guessing uh that

you can start on the process now and it's probably going to take you close to a year then you'll have that 100 yeah or

not I mean you know it may take you nine months and then you split the difference right but I I think you can go ahead and

get started because here's what's going to happen when you start drawing this house and you actually start talking to builders and you actually start getting bids you're going to find out your numbers are wrong right or they change and I doubt

they change

down right you got to watch the scope

creep thing here yeah my fear is this

thing is double what you thought it was going to be and now we got to relook at is this the right next move or do we just buy a place yeah I think we got a

you got bigger issues than when when to

start okay you need to go you guys you

can start today on the get looking at

Builders and looking at Blueprints and

getting it dialed in and once all of

that's done if it's not been a year um

and you've got everything dialed in and you really can still do the numbers that

you come up with the real numbers not hopeful numbers um

then we can say all right I still don't want to start then and what I would recommend back to your original argument is just split the difference just you know instead of a year or starting now uh let's say six

months and by then but it believe me

it's going to be six months at least I don't think we're starting next week on this build anyway we're not we got some time we're not Builders Builders aren't

working as much right now so you probably can find one that'll give you

some attention that's because of the rates that's a good thing just slowed down a little bit very few specs going up uh if builders that are working are

doing customs and so very few home

starts on specs uh because the Market's

really slow with the high interest rates

um prices have held firm and have gone

up in most cases in depending on the

market but uh the build rate uh new home

starts are down way down way down and

specs have just about disappeared in most markets wow so which is not a bad

thing it's okay except that the in

except there's no freaking inventory but for for ran it's a good thing cuz he's probably going to get some good attention yeah versus Builder Builder

sub Builder and Subs are going to be available going a million miles an hour you don't want someone rushing through that home build well and you got 73 other clients instead of just you may be his prized client right now you know it's possible now on the financing side

how would you suggest Brian go through

with this because there's different ways when you're working with a builder to finance it well if it's 50,000 he

probably can go over at the credit union just get a loan simple if it's going to

be 100 110 150 then he's probably

looking at a formal construction loan

and he'll have to get an appraisal on the plan the Builder the the general

contractor obviously license will have to be shown uh to get the appraisal and

then that they'll do that to get and you'll have to get your approved for your permanent mortgage and they give you a letter called a takeout letter

which it means that they will be there to take out the construction loan at

completion the permanent mortgage will it'll convert over to a conventional and you can do all of that with Churchill Mortgage every bit of that um if you

want to but if you've got a little small loan like a 50,000 out of 400 or 50 out

of 350 you know probably just your

credit un they'll just make you a loan like a personal loan almost they're not going to put a lot of regulation on that

not going to require the takeout letter not going to require an appraisal not going to usually but uh but if you get

up there over 100 then you're going to have a construction loan I just

rewatched The Big Short over the weekend

this whole mortgage crisis man it puts

things in perspective yeah how wild

things were back in those days yeah

well there was just so the big Short's all about all the fraud that happened yeah and it was just people making up appraisals and uh we got a whole new

list of appraisal regulations in as a result of what happened in that movie

yeah a whole different world this is the ramsy

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George camel Ramsey personality is our co-host today open phones at

8825 5225 thanks for being with us

America we're here to serve you our joy

comes when we can show you what to do and then you actually go do it and it causes you to win bing bing that's how

that works that's um that's what this

has been about for 30 plus years now and

it continues to be Jody Is With Us in

Springfield Illinois hi Jody welcome to

the Ramsey Show hi there hey what's up I

well I'm kind of embarrassed to ask this

question but I am a

50-year-old Widow who has been widowed

for 15 years

um I have helped put my children through

college and I have no

retirement so I am ready to start

retirement and I don't even know where to begin and how much to put in there's

nothing embarrassing about any of that it sounds sounds like you make me feel good sounds like you're a wonderful person we just need to get on the ball right yes yeah so what do you

make I make about I was just sitting

here figuring this out um I bring home

about 36,000 take home a year okay so your

income somewhere around in the low 40s

uh maybe 45 yeah all right what do you

do I am a social worker okay all right

and do you have any debt I do not your house is paid for yes

that's great news that means most of your income can

go toward investing so you have zero saved right

now right what do you have in the

bank well here's what I have I have my

emergency fund of $1,000 I have my three months I have

three months of my Emer or for my you

know in case something

happens um but that's about all I have

at this point so I'm I'm on the Dave

Ramsey boat I just I'm scared I it's to

a point to where sometimes I cry because

I'm like what am I going to do you know because I don't know because

when my husband passed away you know I

used like life insurance and all that

kind of stuff to pay my house off so

yeah you know we had a roof over our head and all that kind of stuff because

my kids were seven and 10 when all of

this happened wow well you've had a lot

of Life happen hard I totally understand

had a lot we're not here to beat you up we want to give you some good next steps to take and if you're following the baby steps now that puts you at baby step four because you have no debt fully funded emergency fund and really it's step seven because you have a paid for house and so now the kids are they

schools paid for we got to put our own mask now uh put our own mask on and that

looks like investing for retirement as aggressively as possible do you have a

retirement plan through your employer here's what I have and I I

didn't know what route to go but there's a 403b

okay I don't know much about that I've

kind of looked you know do they have a

match no okay I would not do that then I

would first do okay I mean I may do some

there but we would first do a Roth

IRA okay just a plain Roth not a

traditional a Roth a Roth so what I want

you to do is go to Ramsey solutions.com

and click on smartvestor and get a

smartvestor pro in your area to sit down

with you and they can help you run some calculations okay now let me give you an example you

bring home $3,000 a month you do not

have any bills except survival bills you

have no debt no rent no nothing okay

correct if you were to save

invest $11,000 a month for 15 years at 65

you're going to have right around a half a million dollars right around

$500,000 really yeah okay what this means is not that

you're rich and it's really not enough

but it's enough to make sure you're not cold and hungry right because it will produce

then let's just let's just reverse engineer this which is very interesting

okay let's pretend It produced 10% a

year on the mutual funds after that and

that you retired and had no retirement

income and I suspect you probably have a

retirement with your govern government

agency don't you that they furnish

you a

pension uh yeah actually uh my husband I

get a pension off of him but that's

thing but do you get a pension from your work when you retire no huh okay it's a social

security I pay into yeah yeah absolutely

which is nothing which is horrible but that's okay all right so if you had a half a million at 65 or 67 or whatever

and it was invested at 10% 10% of 500,000 is 50,000 a year

right without touching the nest egg

without touching the goose it will lay

50,000 golden eggs a

year wow and so you'd actually be making

more retirement than you are

now so no kitty so you're going to be

okay that's the point you're not going to be rich but even if I'm if my numbers

are off a little bit and they might be one way or another actually probably are

off in this case because you probably will not be making 36,000 for the rest

of your life you'll probably be making

more and so you could invest probably

more later agreed right yeah so the I did that

based on $1,000 in your current income

so so I want you to sit down with a smart Vestor Pro and we don't know how

the scenarios will compare to actual

life but you can run some scenarios like

I just did just to get the idea that I

don't have to

cry cuz if you'll start now Jody and

you'll start investing close to $1,000

or more than $1,000 a month you get your budget tight and you do that you're going to be

okay matter of fact you're gonna be better than

okay that makes me that makes me cry

just being happy yeah so I want you to

sit down but it also needs to make you get on the budget and do it it also mean

means you to get on the phone and get on

with those smart Vestor pros and go sit down with them and learn and let's get this stuff started not next week not next year now now okay right now it and

because every day you put this off it gets harder if you put it off a year it's GNA take 1,200 yeah don't put it off anymore you

put it off as long as you can the fuse

is burning so I want you scared enough

that I scare you into action but I don't want you terrified anymore so you're

paralyzed I got it I'm on it I'm doing

it today I love you you're awesome call us back and let us know how it's going okay okay thank you guys so much I

appreciate it thank you sweet lady love

that she just needed a little motivation that she's not doing as as bad as she thought she was and the time to start is

today what's interesting about what we

do for a living we talk about getting out of Deb or we talk about Building Wealth numbers actually give you a

result that gives you hope when you run

math okay you know got $100,000 in debt

I'm never going to get out what it's 33,000 a year for for 3 years I mean

it's 2,600 bucks a month and you make

150,000 shut your winding up you know

all of a sudden the numbers give you Ma give you hope right the math gives you hope in her case it's $1,000 a month and

for for the next 15 years and not

missing a month and getting started immediately and getting good returns and good mutual funds which probably that 403 b does not have that's why I

directed her away from that you know let's go first to the Roth IRA with more control more options lot better options

a lot better mutual fund option out there now I can be off and if y'all want to argue with my numbers that's fine argue with my numbers but here's the point get with it you know and and you

know I might be if I'm half wrong she's

still going to have 25 $26,000 a month

coming in uh or 25 $26,000 a year coming

in uh versus nothing which your little

plan you critique critic people out

there creates nothing that's what

critics create nothing well the new one Dave is well a million dollars isn't enough enough anymore Dave that means a half million dollar is half of not enough but it's more than you got if you

be broke and crying about it hello yeah

we'd love for you to have multiple Millions but I mean in this case you could see 500,000 would still change your life the way she the only way she's going to get to over a million is she's going to raise her income substantially so she could invest twice as much cuz

2,000 a month yeah for 15 years at 12%

my mutual funds have average 12% for Less 30 years my personal portfolio and

I'm not a genius the market is average 11.8% in the S&P

so by God shut up and go do it you know

so could you could you end up with a million dollars in 15 years yeah it's two grand a month that's it roughly I

mean there it is ding ding this is the

Ramsey

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Ramsey [Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at triple

8825 5225 so our team handed me this

this is cool George in March Andrew came

and did a debt-free scream with me and

uh Dr John deloney was on the air and we

celebrated him paying off

$33,000 49 months wow his student loans

car debt home improvement loan credit card and house paid off his home and and

then we get an email from him that he had a chance to go back to his Alma moer

his high school to one of our

foundations in personal finance classes

warshaw high school and uh his he he put

this quote on Facebook 2009 whs grad oh

this what they put on there Andrew

returned to his Alma moer today to chat

with the senior financial planning class

about his financial journey and becoming debt-free he completed the Dave Ramsey

class and paid off his debt this class

is also completing the high school

version of Financial Peace University thanks for coming Andrew which is called foundations in personal finance very

cool what a great poster child these kids are going oh this I got to watch another video and then they're seeing this guy who was from their High School

who who graduated from the same sat at the same desk they set who has no payments in the world yeah at a very young age 100% debt free wow ding ding

ding ding house and everything and go in and tell the high school seniors it can be done that's how we do it some social

proof yeah we've got the foundations and

personal finance High School curriculum

that now 6 million students have been

through since we started it it's been in

48% of the high schools it's currently

in like 40% of the high schools and more

and more states are now making personal

finance mandatory I love it and so we've

been adopted by for instance the Texas

um what whatever the Texas state school

board or the adoption process to adopt

the curriculum uh and we were just adopted in uh Florida oh that's right a couple months

ago a big one so Florida's got a big push brand new push it's Texas has had

it for a while and they've got their second push coming to get all the seniors before they graduate through our

kids before they graduate at some point as a senior or Junior whatever through a

personal finance curriculum and we have the largest most successful one and

Florida just adopted ours as well now they've got other brands that they can do but so now each of the school local

school boards are selecting whether they're going to use Ramsey or whether they're going to use something else but really excited about it and um um happy

to be in Florida thanks Florida we appreciate you and actually I got to

meet uh the state senator uh when we

were down there doing an event in Orlando remember that I got to you were in the you met him too he's in the Green Room it was incred and that sponsored the bill that got passed in Florida to

uh make personal finance a mandatory a

man it's not elect a mandatory class for

graduation at a certain date in Florida

high schools and that precipitates then

the uh High School curriculum or our

personal finance curriculum is getting adopted and we're one of the high school

approved adopted curriculums in in

Florida so excited about that so if

you're around one of the uh Florida uh

School boards or you're a teacher or whatever um and you want to push for our curriculum being in your school we would

appreciate it and way to go Andrew

thanks for going back to your school and

I don't know where washaw High School is but it's not on this but it's pretty

cool that a guy does that and goes back and speaks to the class with well everyone go they don't teach us stuff in school we do now yeah it's it is in a

bunch of the states now and we're that's

obviously have been doing it a very very long time very successfully we meet all the benchmarks it's a we've got a educ

Ramsey education Solutions Department

here that we've been running for I don't know almost 20 years now and the guys

and gals in that department that that

put this curriculum together that we use in the high schools uh are from the

education world and so our stuff meets

is the easiest for teachers to operate

because it's the lesson plans are done the testing is done right it's all built

out to where it's as low lift as

possible former teachers going I wish this is how it was created I wish everything was created this way because our guys are putting and it meets all the educational benchmarks and

legalities and so forth that we have to meet in order to be in a a public school

system and so we do every bit of that

and uh man we're just thrilled thrilled so many people are getting able to do this and this is cool that Andrew Andrew

did that that's a lot of fun Isaac is with us Isaac is in Huntsville Alabama

hi Isaac welcome to the Ramsey Show thanks for having me how are y'all

better than we deserve what's up so my wife and I are fixing to be

going through our first

divorce and um she's going to keep the

house that we currently have and than to

a wonderful support system I'm going to

be able to move back in with my parents

while I get back on my feet and at this

point I'm just wondering you know kind of what's next

how do I start over from here what should be the correct Step I

Take how old are you

sorry I am 32 years old how long are

y'all married uh about five years or so maybe

you have children uh a 5-year-old son

yes I'm sorry huh what do you

make um $33 an hour about $4,000 take

home a month

okay um well to answer your

question you know you're you're just going to start laying out a game plan to build enough financial life that you

move into into this next chapter right I

mean first goal would be to get on your

feet enough that you had a little bit of money saved and you go get an apartment

right right I mean this obviously your

parents are providing a a safety net not

a hammock correct and so you're just

passing through and uh like you said

that's a wonderful thing and I'm not upset about that at all but I would give

myself a number of months like three or

six months or something and say by then I'm going to have enough save to to have deposits and get an apartment get my own

place get some furniture you know get

get restarted in terms of like almost as

if you were moving out after high school or college right right and um and then

you you know once you've kind of got a a

standard of living set and a place to

live then you start doing the baby steps

and you make sure you're you get out of debt you build an emergency fund and you

know you start investing and you know you're going to figure out that there's another chapter to this after 32 years

old right right yeah so this setback is

going to be a comma not a coma so keep

that in your mind this is temporary

you're going to have a whole another life on the other side of this thing this isn't Define you but it will refine

you and so now is the time to make some

choices that will set us up for the next 10 years so do you know as the dust

settles what the financial picture looks

like as far as child support alimony the

house debt so

I will be taking the car that she's

currently driving and she's going to take the car that I'm currently driving because it's paid off and the car that I

will be getting is not I owe somewhere

around 21,000 on it um the way we've

worked everything out between us you know everything's very amicable so we're it's going to be

uncontested so the way we have it worked

out no child support no alimony or

anything it's all going to be and we

both put in everything we can for him

and she's keeping the house and there's no you're not getting any money out of this out of the house deal correct okay okay I'm not a lawyer

and I'm certainly not a lawyer in Huntsville Alabama I don't think a judge is going to approve a divorce decree that does not in child include child

support okay uh you probably need some

legal advice not to create a stink but I

think you're going to be under the law

in Most states required to do something

for the kids from a legal perspective I know you were going to from a moral perspective but um

but I I think I I don't know I don't know what I'm talking about so you need to check that out cuz I had fireworks go

off in my head but it can't just be handshake agreements I don't I don't think it can be I I you you check me out

I could be wrong okay so um the

house what's the payment on the

house uh 550 a month what does she

make um bring home is about 2,000 a

month okay she's G to struggle with

that and your name still and your name's

still on the mortgage and if you try to

have a new life 5 years from now and she

hasn't paid the bills on time then your

credit is going to have been damaged so

I'm not sure this is a great plan brother I know it sounds like it's all

nice it's all nice until it's not and

then when she gets in trouble loses her job you're going end up paying the house payment for somebody you ain't married to anymore cuz you're still on the

mortgage this is the Ramsey

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George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at

88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your

money Johnny is with us in Irvine

California hi Johnny welcome to the Ramsey Show hi there thank you for taking my

call how are you guys better than we deserve what's up great well I'm calling

to see what you guys would do if you were in my shoes I'm 22 years old I

fully support myself I take home about $5,000 per month I have zero debt I have

$60,000 in savings a $3,000 emergency

fund and I've been listening for the past year or so and some of my friends and mentors are into long-term real estate investing so I've been saving towards that for the past couple of years ideally I'd like to start building some long-term wealth wealth and so I just wanted to see what you guys would do if you were in my shoes wow you are

beyond beyond ahead of the game well

done very well done thank you well I um

probably have a different view on real estate investing than your

mentors sure and I probably own more

than they do given that I own about 600 million

worth okay um but anyway the uh uh I I I

do not believe in borrowing money Johnny

because you and you've heard that listening to the show and I don't for my

real estate investing I pay cash for it

and so the first real estate investing I

did and I've always loved real estate um

that I did after going broke and starting completely over and with this

new I don't borrow money thing uh as a

part of the guidelines uh was I didn't

do real estate investing at first I just started piling money in mutual funds and

when I got enough in in an in in an

index fund is what I used an S&P 500

Index Fund when I it took me about five

years to buy my first income producing

property I paid cash for it and then I

took all of those rents net of expenses and any other

money I could and I threw it in an index

fund until I had enough to buy another

property and then I took all the rents

from the two properties and any money I

could scrape together from anywhere else book royalties or whatever else and I bought another property for cash and

every time I bought another property for cash I had more cash flow to buy another

property faster than I did the one before does

that make any sense yeah that that makes

perfect sense that is a very long-term play versus what you have been considering until this phone call sure

because you're thinking about getting up a down payment and going buying a nice little duplex in California exactly yeah and I'm telling

you to wait and pay cash for it which

your friends aren't going to like and I

don't really care they're wrong that's

true but you called knowing you were

going to get a different take which tells me you're actually interested in this take I am yeah i' I've just been curious

what to do because I feel like I've I've been saving decently and I'd like to continue that um but you know once you

get a certain amount of money I feel like it burns a little bit of a hole in your pocket you're ready to jump into it yeah and you've done really well Johnny

I mean let's face it you're 22 years old you have ,000 bucks in the in the bank

and no debt at all and you're making 5K

a month you're killing it ding D very

impressive and it doesn't sound like you lead a super luxurious lifestyle you're

a saver I I try to be for sure there's

there's a balance so the key is to keep living on less than you make what would be interesting if you want to be really nerdy I don't know how nerdy you are I'm real nerdy is and I've done this a

couple of times it's and it it always it

always works that's why I'm putting you up to it is if you say all right when

I'm

42 would I rather own $10 million worth

of real estate with $8 million worth a

debt or would I rather own $3 million

worth of paid for Real

Estate yeah I think the clear answer is

the 3 million yeah and then here's what's here's the here's the exercise

run out the the purchase snowball which

is not a debt snowball but the way I talked about a while ago rents buy more

buy more buy more more by more everything's folded back into the next deal and the slower start ends up with a

faster end the faster start ends up with a

slower end my way is slower start but has a big

time payoff at the end because it hockey

sticks from an exponential mathematical

equation perspective does any of that make sense yeah it definitely it does cuz

when you get all this property that's sitting there paid for you you are buying more property faster than you

would have if you had a whole bunch of

property that's not even close to paid for and it's not cash flowing nearly as

generously so the math says I can buy I

can buy more property faster now it's

ridiculous what my real estate fund now

looks like from my real estate

income you now CU I'm at the back of the

story right so but I can't get people to

to think long term and I might have just got one 22y old to

do it though who know I'm impressed he sounded interested yeah we could just get off Tik Tok we'll get there for real

Jake is in De Mo Iowa hi Jake how are

you hey guys it's an honor to speak with

you thanks for having me our pleasure how can we help sir yeah so I'm 35 years

old have no debt and am about to step

into baby step six and my question is uh

you talk about uh baby step seven living

and giving like no one else I have no

problem with the the giving aspect of

things the part that is a little tricky

for me to wrap my mind around is the

living like no one else because uh I am

a pastor and so to be stepping into baby

step seven hopefully here in the next five or six years I'm trying to imagine

life in my 40s living like no one else

while being a pastor and and living in

the community of people who uh who pay

for who have paid for my uh financial

success you could say I I don't know how else you you would put it but how how should I think through that as I look forward to the next five or 10 years

yeah well

um don't muzzle the ox as he Treads out

the grain you probably read that scripture right yeah and a worker is

worthy of his hire you probably read that scripture

right M so are you a good pastor and

you're worth what they pay you you I I sure hope so then if you use

that money wisely in Christianity we

would call that good stewardship wouldn't we I think you're modeling for those

people what good Steward what the results of good stewardship are that it

ends up with wealth but we're taught by

the by Carl Marx not by Jesus that

wealth is

evil wealth is not evil people are evil

evil particularly some of them in your

church I'm kidding

no but but uh not much but yeah

anyway but yeah but but so you're always

goingon to have a hater whether you win or you lose if you do it at

scale yeah if you lose you weren't a

good Steward and you're horrible and you

worked your whole life and you have nothing to show for it and we call that

being a good Steward that's not a good Steward that means you did a bad job hand Ling your money so you're supposed to model for

your congregation how to how to be a good husband how to be a good dad right

right how to be a great leader we're

supposed to model in Christian it's

called a witness we call And yet when it

my my friend Craig Rochelle says why is it that wealth is the only blessing from

God we're supposed to apologize

for and I've got several friends that

are pastors that are uh a decade and a

half ahead of you and they're facing the exact same thing cuz they have systematically carefully invested in uh

in their 401ks and in their Roth IRAs

and in their retirement programs and

some of them are bought real estate

carefully and they they don't have jet

airplanes they're not on TV you know

that it's none of that junk they're just good guys as a pastor and they've been careful with their income and most of them are millionaires because they did the stuff I teach but now there's always

some duber that says well Pastor should

never be a millionaire yeah that's what I want I want my pastor to be broke and

stupid no I don't either I want my P I

don't want I want you know Pastor should never listen I want my pastor I want his

marriage to be something I can look up to I want his kids to be something I can look up to I want the way he handles money to be something I can look up to

because obviously the book he is reading

has having an effect on his life and I

want to know more about what that book called The Bible says then but not if

you're out you know so but you're always

going to be criticized Jake whether it's

about your message or the car you drive

there going to be someone out there ex and you know you have to get if you're a

Christian you have to drive a used a cord cuz that's what Jesus said they were all in one Accord oh that one still

gets me this is the Ramsey

[Music]

Show hey George camel here if you love

the show and you want a deeper dive on your money Journey we've got a Weekly Newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the

Ramsey Way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for the

newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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Newsletter

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships open phones at

8825 5225 that's

8825

5225 Jenna start oh George camel Ramsey

personality is my co-host today uh he's

also the co-host of smart money happy hour and the host of The George camel

show on YouTube which is exploding by

the way one of our more popular Ramsay

Network launches in the last year Jenna

is with us Jenna is in Seattle Washington hi Jenna welcome to the Ramsey Show hi oh my gosh I'm so excited

to talk to you guys you too what's

up um so I have a situation that feels

complicated to me but likely not to you

guys which is why I'm calling um I am

the soulle provider for my family and am self employed as a um therapist a mental

health therapist in private practice and

um I make uh good money over $200,000 a

year and am um yeah over 10 years it's

been it's been amazing um but um I'm

paid pretty irregularly mostly by

insurance companies and um I usually

know by like Sunday evenings um kind of

what my deposits are going to look like but they tend to um be slight slightly

different um each week and then I also

get kind of random payments like you

know co- payments from patients or just

um kind of paper checks it's just I'm

not I don't have like a it's sort of

predictable but like also not predictable long you been doing this uh how long have I been doing this

over 10 years uh actually so over the

over the course of a year it's very predictable over the course of 6 months it's fairly predictable over the course

of one week it's not correct okay so give us some uh R estim

what's your question so we're struggling

to budget um as far as um the kind of

grocery shopping um weekly versus

monthly like just kind of really trying to understand our money better um we've

kind of banked on like we just make good money and so we money just sort of disappears and I'm trying to do better we're trying my husband and I are trying to do better um I had one caveat

question I wanted to throw him under the buses he also refuses to drop the coffee

stand and wants to keep it in the budget and I want to mix it from the budget um

so I want you guys to give me some uh

you mean buying a cup of coffee at a coffee stand correct this is not your

problem no it's not my problem you need

to lose that battle and win the war he

needs a budget line item for his coffee he gets his coffee and we get a budget together that we both work on that accomplishes our overall goals coffee is not keeping you from doing that I agree

all right that one's under the bus he you lose he wins next all right George

how do we do an irregular income so the

simplest way to look at this is look at what a low month would be for you guys we know it's not going to be zero right

correct so what would be a low month a low month would be 12,000 okay

so we start there we'll input that in the budget and when more money comes in we'll just add that income into the budget on the income side got me okay

yes then on the expense side we're going to do it a little differently because it's a regular we're going to make a prior prioritized spending plan so let's

have our four walls we got to cover the bills you know the rent the mortgage all

of that stuff first food on the table

you should have a set food budget that

is fixed that easily fits within

$112,000 and it should not have to change based on the irregularity of the income okay other things will change

based on the irregularity but not food

okay because it's first now are you at

risk of running out of money even on that bad month of $122,000 or are you just trying to go hey we should be saving more with all of our expenses

well um no we're not at risk of running

out of money um I just don't feel like

we're throwing enough at our snowballs

um we have perect perfect yeah we're not

at risk of running out of money as far as our our needs go I just feel like it

every after that it sort of just disappears gotcha but it's not

disappearing into the coffee stand there's other places other money leaks

well it's what she's saying I think and I don't put words in your mouth is it's disappearing into the disorganization ization and the chaos and I want to get

a handle on this so I can feel like I'm doing a good job correct like it's like

one week I'll I'll pay the Comcast bill

and then the next week I'll pay you know

a different bill and I just don't feel like I'm organized enough um and so I

feel like you know I want to have a

better understanding and I was thinking

similar to what you were saying if I

just created an idea budget and then

whatever kind of comes extra I could

even just throw out our snowball um if

you can live on the

12,000 without touching it and you get

everything you need to do you could run a budget on 12,000 and every extra

dollar above that goes to your debt snowball that's an easy

fix okay if you need 13,000 to live but

12 is your low then you've got to add a

th000 to those last few things before

you start the de snowball that's what George is saying yeah so including our

business expenses we need about $9 ,000

to live 9 to 10,000 to live okay your

business needs to be running separately yeah yeah yeah yeah the business is running separately um

household no no no noop STP STP you

don't have an included okay the it's not

it's not running separately if it's included hello so here here's the thing

we run a business budget and then when

we bring money home from our net profits

after paying the business

expenses then we work with that so your

business expenses run

what my business expenses are monthly is

only uh $2,300 a month okay all right so

you actually have a low of

9700 yes because you're not bringing

home that 2300 correct okay so you know so so that

based on what we're doing I need to have you need to have that separated out and keep it set completely separate run a

separate set of book separate checking account separate everything for the business we actually give ourselves a weekly paycheck we give ourselves that

doesn't matter you got to you got and then you need to cash out the rest of the profits beyond your weekly paycheck

and beyond your expenses out of the business account over into the personal account but the same principle will still work because the same math applies

I just split it aparts all okay so

you're still okay 9700 will still do it

if 2,300 stayed at the office you can still do it on 9700 and everything else

will go to the de snowball and then sign

so in the 9700 some of it's going to the debt snowball but it's just how much more we put on the debt snowball and

every every dollar premium will cause you to be able to do that we've got a thing in there called paycheck planning

uh that works really well for the

irregular income and you and your husband can sit down together and lay the whole thing out on the app uh or on

the desktop whichever you choose to do with every dollar and it'll lay all out

and and we'll give you three months free and get you started on the every dollar premium okay a awesome cool thank you

guys all right hang on um we'll have the

team pick up and give you three months for every dollar premium because that'll that'll do it perfectly oh yeah and it'll help him see where's all this

money going what did we decide we were going to do this month yeah and then the

only choice you're making is $8 or

whatever the flipping coffee is it's ridiculous but I mean $8 is not going to

get you out of debt that or but but you

are going to start looking at everything including the coffee you'll see how much money you're wasting how much more can we throw how far are we going to cut our lifestyle versus the debt we have versus

the $200,000 well not really

$175,000 income that we have this is the

Ramsey

[Music]

shot

hey guys I've told you before about Christian healthare Ministries a health

cost sharing Ministry but listen to

Jenna a chm member she says one of my

biggest concerns about entrepreneurship

and motherhood was figuring out how to take care of our health expenses but we

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[Music]

budget

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones

8825 5225 I was just telling George a story and Austin you need to hear this too in 2012

I took a call here on the air from a guy

who had a side hustle and he said I love my side hustle more than I like my job

when can I quit my job and do the side hustle I want to double down my parents say I'm crazy for doubling down my wife

says I'm half crazy for quitting my job

uh he was a pharmacist so he'd spent a

lot of money and a lot of time getting to to be a pharmacist he he said I want to quit Pharmacy I want to go into this

whole other side of things in the gun

industry and I'm like okay so I'm I'm a

gun guy so I'm talking to him and listening to him I'm like yeah that's pretty cool so I said how much do you make and he said I made 65,000 on my

side hustle how much you make as a pharmacist this year this is 2012 he

said 60,000 I said well double down I'm

on your team uh I if I would advise your

wife that you should go after this it's what you love it's your passion I would

advise your mom and dad that they're very sweet but they're wrong and that you should go after this so um a couple weeks ago I was out west

and um I visited the guy's

business he did 70 million last

year that hurts my

brain wow and he acts like I did it and

I'm like I didn't do anything I talked to you for five minutes you've worked for uh you know what 11 12 years on your

business you built your business I didn't build your business I'm so so proud of you though uh I I'll take

credit for lighting a fire but dude you you you burned the forest down man that

is way to go way to go man that's pretty

cool uh we don't always get to hear the

followup 11 years later to taking some of you guys' calls out here so uh some

of you ought to tell us if we screwed it up 12 years later or if we got we got it

right or whatever yeah goodness pretty

cool for pretty cool I'm I'm impressed

with him sharp young guy too obviously

Todd is in Fort Wayne hey Todd welcome

to the Ramsey Show hey Dave thanks for

taking my call sure what's up got a

quick question for you uh back in 2009

2010 when there's a big recession that we all heard about my business uh went

in pretty deep and uh since then I've

paid back uh everybody I can and taking

care of all that but I've got one credit card that went after me and in 2000

through Collections and uh it took me to

small I guess you call it small claims court because I seen I got a letter for a judge judgement against me but at that

time um I was still trying to get my head above water how long ago was the

Judgment uh it was 2015 August of 2015

eight years ago okay was the first one

yes uh the first one yeah the amount was

about um I don't know $2 $3,000 but of

course with all their fees that judgment was for $8,000 round numbers and uh

anyway I just got another certified letter today I didn't know how to for sure uh how to contact these guys I just

knew it was out there but they've added 2,000 to it um anyway it says they have

14 days to congest um I'm assuming a

court hearing I didn't know the first time I could do that but do I just I

don't think they I don't think they get to have a court hearing on this one okay

because it's gone too long yeah all

right so let's do a little uh let's

learn a couple things here number one

you owe these people some money and you're not disputing that agreed yes

okay yes and the original balance was

what uh I don't know for sure it was

like 3,000 or something with their fees the original no I'm talking about fees I'm talking about what you actually owe them oh the first one was uh $79.97 so

8,000 no no no no no no that was with

the fees okay when you had a credit card

before it went to collections the

balance on the credit card was $3,000

wasn't it yeah somewhere around there

yeah that's what I'm thinking okay

so um here's the thing if they said

they've added more another 2,000 so it's now $10,000 right yes okay there's a

whole industry out there that most people don't even know is out there called debt buyers and they buy old

bad probably

uncollectable debt probably

uncollectible because the person has already filed bankruptcy and they don't get anything but they still will buy the

debt sometimes not knowing that uh or

the debt has gone too long and it's passed the statute of limitations in that county or that City or that town or

that state and so it's not collectible

which I think is probably the case with yours anyway they probably get zero uh

technically legally uh but they buy old

bad debt now let me tell you what they

pay for it a nickel on the

dollar maybe less yeah so this guy

calling you or certified lettering you

is with a $10,000 bill likely has $250

to $500 invested in your

account okay that's good information if you're

going to call him and offer him 3,000

bucks yeah I want to do right by this

debt I'm willing to pay $3,000 that's

all I'm willing to pay if you want $1

more I'm going to give that to a lawyer

and I'm going to fight you to the death cuz I don't think you can collect this at all cuz it's gone too long

so this is a case this letter from the

our County Courthouse or uh Court does

that make a difference nope it's not the

court didn't buy the debt some duber bought the debt okay so the dubers

brought you to the county courthouse you got a is a duber name on

there uh yeah the collection agency and

there's a lawyer name on it the lawyer is who you call call the lawyer okay cuz

here's the deal they are not in the

business this is not like if I owe you

money and you were pissed and got a lawyer and sued me okay this is a

conveyor belt at a factory and it's the

junkyard it's not even a factory it's a

conveyor belt at the junkyard and

they're running like 9,000 Parts a

minute down the conveyor belt and you're

one tiny little

part okay all right let me give you

another example just to for fun okay a

couple of Christmases ago I decided to

take advantage of this colge to do a fun

charitable thing for our team we bought

8,000 accounts from a debt buyer

totaling $10 million worth of debt our

purpose in buying it was we were going to call all 8,000 people we have a th000

employees so each of them got to call

eight people and tell them their debt is

Forgiven in Jesus name for

Christmas so we bought $10 million worth

of debt to do that for

$259,000 2.5 cents on the

dollar yeah that's amazing yeah so I'm

telling you this is how this works so

that that's who you're dealing with you're one of 8,000 in a

package only you didn't the package

wasn't bought by me so you got to go

deal with the people but it's still I

had 8,000 people that were in this one

package for two and a half cents on

2.59 cents on the dollar

all right and that that's how this that's how this industry works man so

and what do they want they want more than they've got in it because this is a business for them not a charitable event so they got 250 or 500 Grand $500 in

your deal you offer them 3,000 and you

stand firm and argue with them about 30 times they're going to take it get it in

writing do not give them electronic

access to your checking account those two things are very important okay so I think you should pay

them what you owe them which is three grand okay you got the three grand yep I

do very cool does that does that tell you what you need to know yes perfect

thank you cool thank you so they're

hoping a few people in this giant pile

will pay that eight or 10 grand to make this whole operation work no they they

never get it 99% of the accounts aren't

collectible that's why they're worth nothing because I mean what do you what are the chances of collecting on something from 2010 13 years ago 13

years ago if you can even find the guy I

mean they're just saying Glory Hallelujah that they even found him right we had trouble making the calls we couldn't even old cell phone numbers bad

numbers we had a we you know we had what I bet you uh one out of uh one out of

eight was probably bad or two out of eight the information we had with the

accounts we bought were bad which tells you they had bad information when they bought it well yeah cuz it's old I mean

how many people got the same cell phone number 13 years later you know and or

whatever the same address and you know

you don't send a change of address to people you owe money to if you're on the run you know so it doesn't happen that

way so it's an interesting world but

it's a very high doll high number low

performance world and if you'll keep

that in mind when you're dealing with them it's not personal it's just a transaction for them this is the Ramy

[Music]

show

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at

88255 225 today's question of the day

sponsored by neighborly your home for

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and get started today's question comes

from Steve in Minnesota I'm 43 years old

I still have student loan debt about 4,900 it was originally 24 Grand back in

2010 this year in May I went and got

2,130 hair graph transplants for about

13 Grand some I paid up front and the

rest I used a Care Credit Card for

$10,500 I owe about five grand on it now

I have 32,000 in savings I've got about

10 grand on a 401K and I make about 20

bucks an hour I didn't get enough hair graphs to cover the back top crown area

should I go back for more hair transplant graphs to cover that

area Dave this is a personal question

that I think only you could

answer this is very personal it's

personal you're just mean hair jokes

George Well you bullied me for far too long day it's my time to get

back oh Steve Steve Steve okay Steve

Steve well the good news is Steve has some money and he can clean up this debt today I don't know why he's waited 13 years he has 30 2 Grand in savings let's

knock out the 10 grand in debt and you'll still have 22,000 left that covers an e emergency fund and that

should cover some hair graphs so 32,000

10,500 on the credit card he says he

owes five on it now and then um oh okay

and then five so so 10,000 clears up the

student loan and the card right yep and

that leaves him $22,000 right mhm that's what I'm saying

okay and um then we need to ascertain

what your emergency fund should be 3 to

6 months of expenses and if that is under

$22,000 like say 15 then you would have

seven you could use towards other things

and if that's what you choose to do with your money okay um right yeah but if your if your

emergency fund should be

25,000 you need to finish your emergency

fund before you do other things because

until you're out of debt and have an emergency fund in place we do not

do elective surgeries that's a luxury

it's a luxury well I need bigger

lips no no the food's going in you don't

need bigger lips the uh coffee is not

spilling you need bigger you don't need bigger lips uh you can bigger lips are a

luxury uh hair in the back is a luxury

apparently here in the front is a luxury for so he must have got just the front done and then he's got this Crown here that's still I mean if you're the hair transplant people that was genius hey you'll have

to come back it leaves you it leaves you with a a guaranteed client for the back

as soon as they get home and get a mirror the other question is they do a good job with the rest of it so far cuz

maybe let's not go back my stomach is in

my throat this is killing me but yeah but I imagine it's a few more Grand to finish it up if he's got the crown left I don't I'm going to get in a lot of trouble if I'm not real careful here but anyway the um yeah if this is what you

want to do with your money it should only be done it's a choice it's a luxury

item it's like buying a new couch or

upgrading a car it's done after your

emergency fund is in place and you are debt free so you should write a check today Steve and pay off your student

loan debt and your credit card I'm is

this even is this real this is real some

guy spook I thought Austin was trolling us somebody's punking us and Austin let

it through it's too specific to be

punking at this point well it's a good

way to to somebody You' give great

detail like I just don't have enough hair graphs in the he told us how many hair graphs 2,130 I know but that's pretty that's

how you punk somebody that's how that's what causes us to bite on it well we bit on it and so we're pretending like it's real I think someone wanted to know your take on hair transplant oh that's just

no no they didn't obviously they know my

take on hair transplant all they got to do is just pull up Pi say not worth the money well it's just um it's

a yeah you've been cutting your own hair

for a few decades now it's easier that

way the amount of money you've saved

though compared to me I just grew up in

a different place and a different time

where we enjoyed getting old and we is

what we is so we didn't constantly be

poking and prodding at ourselves but

it's a different time back then it was just like a tou pay there weren't many options yeah that's true it's a bad two

pay or nothing yeah like something out of a movie from the 70s yeah but oh I

don't I I figured that the person with

the lowest hair maintenance and the

highest hair maintenance in the studio

we' have opinions would have a great opinion on this Jade's not

here to sh boom roasted

Jade hey Jade spends more time on her

hair than you do I promise you I've got this down to a sience she's got more stuff going on from the Predator look to the twisted up on top look to the whole thing she's got more looks tell you this I haven't spent 13 Grand on my hair so

there's bonus yeah none of all of us

together have not spent 13 Grand on our

hair so that's a lot I would just start wearing hats or just let it ride man I

mean you got a great head for it Dave a not everyone has that see George you're trying to dig out now you're trying to

dig out never dig out get you a shovel buddy this is my last show America it's been good shovel buddy it's been fun yeah you you and Austin Austin brings in

the hair joke email an alop and you just

you you you do the stuff with it right

you just stuff the thing right yeah all right let's move on while I still have my job all right Sarah is in Nashville

hi Sarah welcome to the Ramsey Show hi thanks for having me sure what's

up okay so I work two jobs I work a

full-time job and then I also work a

part-time job um my question is should I

or like is it okay for me to quit my

part-time job um even though I'm in baby

step to um the reason I'm wanting to

quit it is basically because I'm working at all all the time you know I'm trying to be gazelle intense and all but I am

not having a good time and I want to

pursue like other things to eventually

go into that so like what are you

saying basically I want to in the long

run get into music and I am in Nashville

so it's like the perfect place to do that you want to get into music did you

say yes okay all right but and what's

your part-time gig now I'm in retail

okay all right well that's like most of

Nashville yeah I mean like how do you get the next country music stars attention in Nashville uh

waiter right I mean that that's they're

everywhere I've got I've got three people that were on The Voice working for me and they ain't doing voice I'm

telling you so um but anyway the uh uh

yeah it's it's everywhere and I'm not saying you can't do it you you should do

it but how much debt do you have left

I about 50,000 and it's student loans okay and

when will at your current rate with gazelle intensity when will that be

done um about 2ish years how old are you

28 okay how many hours a week are you

working now um about 15 hours extra

so and plus a 40-hour job yes okay so

where do you work on Saturday night

um so retail retail is not

open yeah correct so I'm not working

yeah where do you work on Friday night not at retail it's not

open well I work the retail job uh

Monday through Friday after work and

they close all right so you don't have a Saturday gig okay yeah so sing on

Saturday yeah so I guess it's a little

bit complicated because I'm not into like the country music scene more into

Christian you're in Nashville and you want to get into music you want to be in the Christian music is that what you said yes okay so how are you planning on

breaking into it that's a good question I'm not quite

exactly sure I'm more thinking like the social media route okay then I would do

that on Saturdays okay and I get plugged into a

church where that music is happening as well yeah make sure you're in a good church that's Musical and they're doing a lot of good praise and worship stuff

and you know Nashville is also the home

of contemporary Christian music for sure

most of the artists live here that do that for a living a lot of them are

friends uh the older ones are friends

Darren Tyler did a songwriting night at his church with a bunch of songwriters so there's stuff like this happening in the community all the time you can do all of that and still keep your retail job you just got to give up partying on

Saturday oh wait a minute you're doing this from a Christian perspective maybe partying isn't the problem um you got to

shut down the prayer group on Saturday night and go do something else kind of party yeah that's it so yeah I I think

you can find the time Sarah and I think it's a short-term play to get out of debt let's get out of

[Music]

[Applause]

debt

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Walt is in Buffalo New

York hey Walt welcome to the Ramsey Show

hey guys thanks for taking my call I appreciate it sure what's up uh actually

had two questions but the young lady on the the screener told me I could only ask one so I figur I'd mention it maybe

you guys let me squeak in too uh my wife

and I have been on the baby steps since

no November of

2022 we made it all the way to step

three and almost immediately after that

we had to use a couple thousand doll of

our emergency fund uh we have

$4,000 in a high yield savings account

that's earmarked for kids college uh

he's 10 right now and we're wondering if

we should take the 2,000 from that four

to fill the emergency fund back

up I

would uh because it's not in a college

fund it's just earmarked you you have two accounts one of them you got named college but you got a 10-year-old you got plenty of time to build their

college savings and doing it in a 529

and so forth that's exactly what I would do yeah simple enough I mean it's liquid

you're not going to pay any penalties so if you told me it was in a 529 I'd say don't touch it yeah but you're you'll be fine there and you'll have time to fill it back or if it had been there for 20 years years or something and the kid was seven I mean you know there's a lot of different factors but uh you got a lot

of time and it's just a it's just a right pocket left pocket thing um and

then just you know if you take it out of the right pocket put in the left pocket then you got to go back to the right pocket and fill it up which is baby step five anyway reminder while four five and

six are done simultaneously yep so we're investing 15% while we have that plate spinning we

begin to fund the kids college then any

money left over we can throw onto the mortgage to pay that off early yeah so

four five and six which is retirement savings kids college savings and paying

the house off early we run simultaneously but still in that order 15% going into retirement funding kids

college which you're going to do immediately uh you'll begin with that

with that 2,000 it's left over and get an account open and get it moving and

then if you find more money in your budget or as you find more money in your budget as you go along let's pay off the house early Elijah is with us in

Charlotte North Carolina Hi Elijah

welcome to the Rams show hey Dave thanks for having us sure

what's up so me and my wife have a question and

it is we are debt free we have an

emergency fund we've tried to do everything by the book and both of us have zero credit and we are renting

currently is there any way that we could

one day buy a house without any credit

what is your advice well George did it yeah it's a a

fairly simple process it's called manual underwriting and what that is is basically a no score loan and our friends at Churchill Mortgage have been doing this forever but if you tell anyone about it they'll say no you can't do that and even if they say you can they'll say it's so much more expensive it's such a headache it'll take you forever they're lying they've never done it so let me tell you from someone who's done it that it's simple but you have to

do it by the book like you mentioned so you're going to want to have all the documentation your verification of income rental payment history you know

12-month history of your bank statements a tax return things like that and along

with that you need to have a good down payment have you guys started saving that up yet yes as soon as we finish building up

our emergency fund that's what we were going to start on awesome so I would aim

to have a minimum of 10% if you're doing the no score loan 20% is even better to

avoid that private mortgage insurance what kind of budget are you looking for for a house right now we're in North Carolina

and the housing market can wear from 100 or $200,000 to

$300,000 great so let's set that goal

and set it down payment savings goal and as long as you can get that payment to

be 25% of your take-home pay of your after tax income per month on a 15year

fixed then you're ready to buy a

home sounds great thank you so much

again Elijah if you go to a traditional

mortgage company or you ask your

friends um they're all going to tell you

that because they don't know how to do it that that can't be done George did it

Jade did it Dr John deloney did it all

of our Ramsey personalities have had zero credit scores and G and got mortgages okay so it it definitely can

be done we'll put a link to uh the Ramsey Solutions blog about this in the show notes and so if you want to go back and pull that up out of the show notes you'll be able to do that with a great detail on it but really George just gave it all to you and again selecting a

mortgage company that knows what the flip they're doing that's important and most of them don't Church Hill mortgage does know how to do this Chaz is with us

in Orlando hi Chaz welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey Dave thanks for having me sure

what's up uh so my question is I'm 24 years old me

and my fiance are getting married next

February um I have zero debt right now

um and I have a nice little NES egg in the bank that I've been saving up um my

question is my fiance has some debt once

we get married do you recommend that I

kind of use up most of my Nest Egg to

pay off her debt or should we keep that

Nest EG in the bank and just keep pursuing paying off her debt now that we go have both incomes to pay it

off what are we talking in the

bank so right now I have about $34,000

in the bank um and then her debt is a

little bit over $117,000 okay um so it wouldn't totally

wipe it out but it's just you know we

now through February it's just you know no I don't know what do you mean you

know for I mean yeah but like we just

like to have it in the bank no you do

just like yes you worked hard to save

this money up and it hurts emotionally to Let It Go for someone else's

mistake yeah that's okay to say out loud

but just know when you get married you're signing up for that whole person's life and it's our money so now

you have debt as well it's our debt and

it's our income all of the mistakes you have made come with you all of the mistakes she has made come with her and

the preacher will say and now you are one

mistake so so this is how this works

brother are you that in love with her that you're willing to do this oh 100%

not even a second get home from the honeymoon write a check and pay off for student loan okay yeah period period no question

about it and she should be paying it down you know we've got to save up for the wedding are you guys paying for it no luckily her parents have blessed

us with paying for the wedding great so

that's been a huge blessing for sure wonder and she's totally she's paying paying it down we actually been taking your class through our church and good so she's already working it down like every single day um but it's just it

looks like there might be a little bit left over once we get married and so you

know I was calling in to see see what your opinion was on so Chaz here's the thing if you called us up you you've

listened to us or you've been through Financial Peace University if you called us up and said we're a married couple we

have $34,000 in savings and we have

$177,000 in a student

loan we instantaneously would tell you

to pay that off would wouldn't we yes you would okay the only Nuance

here is is that it's new because the

marriage will be at that time new so

that's the only nuance and what you're

facing here is you're really having to face this idea that we are going to

combine our incomes our dreams our fears

our mistakes our assets we're going to

combine everything and we're going to become a whole new entity called a

married couple and that and you're

you're this is forcing you to process

the emotions of that which to George's

Point are you know we we poke fun but but it's they're very real it's a very

real emotion yeah and so but you've

listened to us enough to know that if you were answering the question as you're driving along in the car while listening on talk radio uh and someone

else called in you would be going they're going to tell him to pay the loan off yes true so the only difference here

is it wasn't an existing marriage couple

were moving into it and that's the only Nuance to change it happens to be your

money this time rather than listening to someone else to call in that changes it

too that's tough but you know the beautiful thing is you also get to build

wealth together and it is like exponentially greater when you have two people who are on the same page oh yeah

yeah that there's what's called in uh

sociological studies and economic

studies that called the marriage

Advantage h the P you know the there's

several marital advantages uh if you

haven't read the the research that's out

there uh Health me males who are married

live longer wow yeah uh and couples who

are married have a wealth and an income

career career and income Advantage

statistically they make more money and they have more money statistically so

it's called the marriage Advantage research projects that are out there floating around very interesting to look at so yeah you're right this is going to go zoom zoom you're going to be fine

that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the

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books hey it's George camel if you like

what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to ramseys solutions.com and click on the get

started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your

specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

[Music]

[Music]

started live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships George camel

Ramsey personality is my co-host today

I'm Dave Ramsey the phone number is

88255 225 starting off this hour is

Corey in Cleveland Ohio hi Corey how are

you good how are you doing better than I

deserve what's up so I got a question I

I got 35,000 in credit card debt I'm

going through a divorce uh she wants me

to take another half of hers and I um I

I'm struggling I'm working um five days

a week um I drive truck as a local truck

driver and I just don't know where to

where even to start

at okay

um how much debt do you guys have as a

couple you've got 35 how much does she

have it'll be 65,000 total so she has

another 30 yes okay and there car

payments uh yes I have a car payment my

my truck payment is 970 a month good God

all right and um how much is her car

payment uh her car payment I'm not too

sure that we're actually we're going through a divorce and we're separated at this time well dude you were married to her

did you have the car then yeah yeah well she had uh she had

given me my car back I had bought her a

Lexus at the time and she had give it

back to me stuck me with that and my truck payment plus a motorcycle payment

and I was struggling so I traded both of my vehicles in and end up purchasing the truck I have now I saved myself about

$500 a month doing that yeah you didn't

go far enough all right no I didn't all

right

um okay so the problem is is we're

working out all the debts before there's a deal cut MH so every time you every

time you get something paid off or figured out she hands you another one

yes now this has got to

stop you've already eaten a Lexus in a

motorcycle and now she wants you to eat

15 more of the debt that's the credit

card debt that's in her name yes okay so

we need to uh do you guys have an

attorney yeah we have we both have attorneys I I tried toner I I she keep

the house and everything we put into it

she keeps her debt I keep mine we'll go our separate ways she's not into it she

has no she's not willing to work with me at all okay then I guess the judge is going

to have to decide right and that goes

February 7th I'm trying to figure out

what I need to do in the meantime I have an opportunity right now to buy my own semi and go over the road and make what

I'm making now no you need to get this cleared up before you do that because she's gonna end up with half the dad gum semi right that's what I'm worried about

yeah how much money do you have in the bank uh at this moment in time I'm

struggling and that's why but um I have

maybe 30 bucks right now I'm going

through it right now

MH okay and you're not driving over the

road now or you

are you just cut out on me man uh that's

why we were uh that's why we're going to the divorce we drove team over the road together me and her together uh we were

racking down 250,000 a year between us

both um I was sticking mine in my 401k

she was spending hers and that's another

thing she's wanting she's wanting half of my 401k also and we weren't even

married that long three years and she's

entitled to uh everything I put in from

the date of marriage to the date of

divorce which is it's not even it's not

really a lot of money but I worked for

it you know you guys have kids no kids

nope okay so are you driving over the

road now no I'm local okay what do you

make uh right now now I'm 3322 an hour

and that is all straight pay and you've

got an apartment yes okay what's the

house worth uh I just had an appraise at

appraise for 174,000 what do you owe on

it uh

132 okay all right so here's here's what

I would do all right the problem with a

divorce is it turns a marriage into a

business transaction and so this is now a list of

debts and a list of assets that must be

negotiated through the law in Most

states as you have found out splits it

down the middle what she wants doesn't

matter what you want doesn't matter the

law is going to demand that you split it

down the middle if you come to something close to that and pre- agree to it the

judge will approve it if you come to something way out of balance the judge is probably not going to approve it and kick out your agreed to to settlement

because it's too stupid okay so all of that to say you

don't need to be buying anything if I

were in your shoes I'd sell this

truck yeah get you yeah you said that

like I'm not doing it you need to sell your stupid truck dude $970 at $33 an

hour is in the cray cray zone right I I

want to get rid of it I went to trade it in they told me I would have to pay out $4,000 in equity negative equity to cck

get off from underneath the truck at that point It Go Go borrow 4,000 at the credit

union and do it or sell a private party if you can make 4,000 more and be get out of it clean sell it private and and just sell it and be done with it somebody will give you more than you owe on it okay what is it what kind of truck

is it it's a 2023 Chevy

Silverado that's a beast that's a good

Truck Yeah you ought to be able to get more than you owe on it yeah so yeah the

problem is a dealer thinks he's got you coming again right he got you last time he's

going to get you again especially if you're desperate they can smell that off of you yeah so I think I think you put it on the look it up on Kelly Blue Book and sell it for more than you owe on it

and then get you a hoopie because you're

driving truck during the day anyway you don't need a bank big car right now you

got more problems than you need car right yes sir so this is temporary one

year from the day everything's going to be changed but temporarily you've gotten

rid of the car now you're down to only

$35,000 worth a credit card debt and

negotiating with your soon Tobe ex-wife

over the 401K in the house yes cuz the

credit card debt is going to be split down the middle you're going to get your 35 she's going to get her 30 you're

probably going to give up half your 401k

or you can give her a credit towards the house and sell the house right how much is in the

401K uh 35 35,000 so 17 of the equity in

the house can go to her instead of

giving up your 401k and sell the house

and give her her half plus 17 which is

probably almost the whole thing but don't let the house stay in the deal do

not don't do not let her have the house because you're on the mortgage and then she doesn't pay it you're screwed right Force the sale of the

house split the proceeds minus your half

of the 401K that you're going to have to give up anyway and that way your 401k stays intact yes you walk out of this with a

401k and only $35,000 with a credit card

debt and a hoopie now you can talk about

going over the road and making some money and clean up

the 35,000 right quick okay but you're being managed by

emotion because your heart's broken one

minute you're pissed the next minute and

you're broken terrified the next minute

yes sir I understand man I've been there it's no fun and so I I Haven been

through the divorce part of it been through the rest of it though and it is no fun so laying out a detailed factual

game plan with math remove some of the

emotion from it and that's what I just gave you so go back and listen to this

on YouTube or on podcast or however so I

because I gave you the exact plan of what to do and and what I what I laid

out is negotiable and if she won't do it

take it before the judge he'll make her do it this is the Ramsey

[Music]

Show [Music]

so one of the most popular things we have done in many years is about 2

months ago we started doing

free webinars

with Jade warshaw Rachel Cruz and George

camel each of them doing free webinars

with the every dollar budgeting app showing you how to build out your budget why to build out your budget and uh

couples are jumping on for free and watching the webinar and you can interact with the webinar you can actually ask questions live live chat a Q&A Box live chat while we're going and

a what box a Q&A box box so you thr

stuff so there's interaction it's not just George squawking at you or Jade or

Jade or Rachel's walking at you and uh

so we're doing these free online budgeting trainings uh go to

everydollar.com budgeting and between now and the end of

the year each one of those three will be

doing three or four of these and so

George Rachel Jade uh you can jump on

choose which one or just pick the night or day or whatever that the time is convenient for you it's completely free

very interactive very helpful on the

every dooll bud budgeting app on how to

get a plan together cuz if you don't have a plan you know it's like Zig

Ziggler used to say if you aim at nothing you'll hit it every time and my

friend John Maxwell says a budget is people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went every

doll.com budgeting get registered for

the free webinars George what do they

get if they go to yours well we give

away stuff and uh that's I like to bribe

people with that so we'll give away some stuff we have a a killer you really are you just making a no we really do we've given away U I already give away your

services I know we gave away some books and products and things like that for those that are brave enough to ask a question in front of you know 3,000 virtual people CU that's there is a cap even though it's digital they cap the room size so you got to make sure you sign up we'll also send you a replay if

you miss it a lot of people say hey I can't make that time sign up anyways you

can go back and watch the whole thing there you go and free stuff for the people that do attend and ask a question and you bribe people for their involvement you got but people do get really interactive I've heard the stor yeah we've had great feedback back just showing them we don't have time on the air to show you how it all works but that webinar is where we do it Olivia is

in Madison Wisconsin hi Olivia welcome

to the Ramsey Show hi Dave hi George thank you for

taking my call sure what's up um so my

question is about student loans um I

currently have um a um I have around

three let's see 105,000 in student loans um and it's

broken up between um a private uh

University Foundation loan and then Federal loans um and my question is um

the the Federal Loan is broken up into

smaller loans yes um some of them are

subsidized some are unsubsidized yes and

so my question is how do I prioritize

that do I or do I just pay the private

and then the federal I'll tell you how I did did it

10 years ago I laid them all out from smallest balance to largest balance that's called the debt snowball method and I ignore the interest rates just black them out if you have to because it gets real confusing and overwhelming and

all you do is you focus on that smallest balance first my guess is it's one of those little Federal loans yes what's the smallest balance

you got um I believe the smallest one is

about five or 6,000 of one of the the

Federal loans yeah what do you

make um my husband and I make um about

115 great so how quick you gonna pay

that five off oh we can pay the five off in um

probably couple months Max yeah or more

I was think two paychecks yeah okay

quick quick quick how yeah all of these

um Federal loans are under one service you need to call them you need to pay the minimums and then call them and get

them on the phone which is a pain in the butt because they're incompetent but

call them and get them on the phone and demand that the money you transfer right then goes on that loan because if you

mail it to them or you make it one check for all the minimums and that they will screw it up and spread it across all of them because they're

incompetent okay up until now we've just

been paying um what across all across

all of them yeah and nothing happens yeah you don't see any movement but I want that little one knocked out cu when that little one's knocked out your payment changes okay and drop down and then more

and more and more the debt snowball rolls but if you don't knock out the little one then the Deb snowball doesn't roll meaning every time you pay off

something that has a payment with the debt snowball that old payment now gives

you extra money to throw on the next one

but if the old payment is zero then it

doesn't give you any extra money to throw on the next one so you got to call them and each stinking month make sure

they're doing the right one the right one the right one when you're on one of the little small federals yeah and you can also see

online it may break them out you may be able to apply that to the principle but

I'm not sure if these websites if you can be if you can make sure on the website you could try it one month and see if it drops the principal on that singular debt rather than spread across

all of them but I got to tell you they're it's the worst it's the federal

government I mean user experience the

incompetence of the IRS the incompetence

of the federal government shows up here

like you never believe these people's parents are cousins it's just awful

they're just horrible and so uh it's a

it's a disaster the whole student loan

debacle is a disaster So the faster you

get it in the rearview mirror the better your life is going to be good question

thanks for joining us Miguel is in San

Antonio hi Miguel welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi daavid and George how youall

doing better than we deserve what's up

that's right um so I'm 22 years old U I

have a car payment at sitting at 10,000

left to be paid off that's the only debt I have um originally the car started at

18,000 I had it for two years and so

I've been trying to pay it down much

ahead of time to so I can get that completely finished out um and I do have

the money to pay it off right now I could pay it off today but that is

pretty much everything that I have so

you ow you owe how much

today uh today it's it's just under

10,000 it's at 9,000 okay and how much

money do you have um I have 12,000 right now do you so I

would still have I make around 40,000 a

year good and what other debt do you have other than the stupid car I don't have any other debt good pay

it off today man it leaves you with what three grand and no car payment yeah and

and and that doesn't include my um

emergency fund I still have an emergency F of a thousand okay no no no you're

starter emergency fund you're starter so

now you got three you got three grand four grand yeah and now you your next

goal is to build that four grand up to 3 to 6 months of expenses which in your

case is probably about a $10,000 emergency

fund okay and without a car payment

you'll get there even faster yeah yeah it's so with that yes that I

should pay it off um one more thing I'd

like to add on to the story now is that

I am engaged congratulations a wedding

when when's the wedding uh we just signed the contract

for two years almost exactly two years

so two years long ways away man why two

years um my my fiance is still going

through graduate school and I actually work at a university so she's going to

be able to get graduate school paid for

with uh my benefit there not if you're

not married the blessing we are planning to

get married legally first and then so

that she can get that benefit and then we're going to have a wedding in the church because we are uh

Catholic and we do want to get married in the church okay so

what does the Catholic Church charge you to get married well we wanted we've been dating

for six years and we wanted to we've had

a lot of different people come to our

lives been a part of our story we wanted to have something um so we have a budget

of around 20 to 25,000 and and with it being just me

right now you're talking about actually getting married when

legally 20 legally would be

um pretty much the beginning of 2024 in

February okay and then then then your

husband and wife the other things you're just going to have a party exactly okay and so you're going

to save up for a $220,000 party I don't give a flip when you have your $20,000 party you can have that whenever you want you're now husband and wife and you

have a paid for car tada

it doesn't change anything dude matter of fact it it actually makes it more sense for you to pay off the thing today with that combined income $10,000 is not going for the party two years from now for sure while you have a stinking car payment you're going to save up new money to pay for the party or not this

is the Ramsey

[Music]

Show

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us America Jacob and Taylor are on the debt

free stage in the lobby of ramsy

solutions how are you well great how are

you better than I deserve welcome where do you guys live so we're from Tulsa

Oklahoma oh fun welcome to Nashville how

much debt did you pay so we paid off

about 182,000 good for you how long did that

take too long but about eight years okay

good and and uh what was your range of

income during that time so we started

about 70,000 7075 and then up to about5

cool what do youall do for a living so I'm a mechanic at Alexa Steeler in Tulsa

M uh after I graduated college I ended

up in the nonprofit field for about seven and a half years uh but now I'm a stay-at-home dog Mom I have a network

marketing business and I'm a part-time braa okay good for you cool all right

what kind of debt was the 182,000 so it was student loan for her

and then and then our mortgage oh paid off your house look at them weird people

I love that so what is this house worth

in Tulsa it's worth about 280 now way to

go guys nice house we're seeing it on

YouTube here nice picture yeah and it's

all yours all ours how old how old are

you two weirdos so I'm 33 I just turned

32 last week you have a paid for house

do you know anyone that's 33 with a paid for house other than George he was a

huge inspiration for us very very big

that means the world well I'm amazed that this trend keeps happening I feel like we're seeing it more and more their

20 30s late 20s early 30s coming in here

with a paid off house definitely yeah we're it's very exciting do you know I mean any of your friend group got a paid for house I don't think so not that I

know of yeah they'd be talking about it

if they did yeah that's true very true

they'd be here too where did this idea even come from how did you guys get started on this ramay way eight years ago yeah yeah good question uh so right

after I graduated college is when we got

married married and we actually got

Financial Peace University membership as

a wedding gift and so I'd love to give a shout out to Tracy a family friend who gifted that to us and that changed

everything for our family so we took it

about 3 months after we got married and

I remember sitting there the second or third week and and I was like we have to

teach this like we people need to know about this and so we went through the

class and um we kind of did things a

little a little out of order we actually like bought our home during the class

but turns out we did it right we put 20%

down it's a 15year loan all of that so all of that was right but then we um you

know ventured on the the student loan

and we got that done it was 38,000 and

we got that done in 22 months good so we

knocked that out pretty quickly and so

um right after that class was over we started teaching um so we've coordinated

uh nearly 15 classes now super thank you

we love it absolutely love it super coordinators you got to follow the stuff at that point the whole class is look at you have you led one since paying off the house um we had one this summer so

we got to celebrate with them and then we'll have another one in January so

really kept us accountable you know working with each of the classes and and

sharing our story and all of that so it's like your personal trainer having a six-pack like this is a good sign I'm in

the right place when I'm in your class

way to go yes we're excited so we um in

a lot of ways I guess a huge part of our

story is um you know we've had emergencies come up just like anybody else um we've replaced our AC unit had a for

night Hospital stay and we also Jacob is

working on his bachelor's and so we're cash flowing that and so that's part of

the reason why maybe it's taken a little bit longer and what are you studying Jacob uh mechanical engineering oh very

good okay how much longer do you have uh

about a year oh wow good for you that's

going to be a great breakthrough for you yeah but it's been a been almost fiveyear process so but all part time

yeah exactly so and as newlyweds we've

we've done a lot lot of traveling um

we've done a couple of international trips we've been all over the United States but all with cash all without

credit cards um and so that certainly

has you know extended our um you know

our our deadline I guess but the goal was always to pay off for home seven years early yeah um and that's exactly

what we did so hit the goal we did it's

been really exciting really well once you're out of baby steps 2 and three

travel is allowed it just slows down you

slows down how much you put on baby step six or buying a car is allowed or going

the Schools allowed it just slows down how much you put on baby step 6 but you still did all of that and did the house

in seven years yes that's pretty cool

yeah we sure did it's been been fun it's

been living proof this stuff still works

yes exactly every day yeah and in a lot

of ways too um Jacob and I are both

natural givers um and so outside of our

mortgage our giving category and our

budget was actually one of the largest

and so we were kind of practicing baby

step seven even kind of before we got there so so you know the travel and and

the the giving part of that you know we

give to things that we're passionate about we just couldn't wait to do that so amen good for you yeah good for you

okay now how's it feel when you walk through the backyard and you don't have any payments feels nice it really does I

mean you don't we don't necessarily like

worried if that payment was going to be there the first of the month but it's

nice not having to like even having to

worry about that have y'all walked back in the backyard and stood and looked at the house and went that's ours mhm we have actually yes yes front back walk through the

grass Barefoot yeah pictures neighbors

are going what are they doing over exactly yes they do a lot of celebrating over there I don't know that's good good

for you what do you tell people in your class the secret to getting out of dead is oh man number one on my list is

tithing that's been just the Forefront

of our mind and why do you think that is

man when you live life like this you

know it it's just better than opened yes

yeah it's just better than you can than

you can dream or imagine and so uh

blessings have come from that and and certainly you know since we have led 15

Financial Peace University classes we watch the videos 15 times and so um you

know just keeping up with that and and having a group to walk through that with has been a really crucial part so yeah

the accountability and the open-handedness yeah what about you Jacob I think it's a lot of it is not

living above your means I mean that

we've you know not been in any kind of

dire straight situation but we've also not like saying oh I need to go into

debt for to do this or I need to put

this money towards the trip and not pay off what we need to pay off so I think

it's it's knowing what you need as

opposed to just what you want yeah it's intentionality right yeah yeah way to go

guys I'm so proud of you thank you who

was uh who was cheering you on everybody

everybody yeah um a lot of a lot of my

parents instilled a lot of this into into me from the get-go so they've

always been kind of of that driving force for for me especially not before

we got married and then since since

we've been married they've been you know a constant cheerleading team um so and

then her grandma and then our our friends you know who who know that we're on this journey or were on this journey you know they've always been super supportive and our church family our

community group you know we we've we surrounded by a huge support team wow

that's awesome that makes a big difference yeah and you guys are in your early 30s you got no payments give me

something you're excited to do in the save spend category with no payments now

yeah for sure yeah I mean making our our

giving budget a little bit larger now uh

we're updating our home so like you know

updating the outdoor space and replacing

Windows things like that adulting

adulting exactly yeah so that's any big

trips now you're like this is the big debt-free trip yeah uh actually next May we're

going to go to Italy so we actually uh

at a fundraising Gala prior to covid we

uh won this went a trip through a silent

auction and Co kind of ruined that a

little bit um couldn't go well now we

are 3 years on from it we're actually going to get to go on it and even in a better Financial place than we were then

to go so that's that we're going to kind of use that as our celebratory yeah good

that's awesome it's a good trip well done y'all that's fun yes well

congratulations we're very proud of you

we've got the Liv and give bundle for you because you've been doing a lot of both living and giving so uh baby steps

Millionaire's book you'll be there very soon if you're not already I didn't ask how much you have in retirement how much do you have in retirement we probably

have I'm think we have probably about

100 Grand now with ir you said the house

is worth 300 close to it yeah so you're

about 400 of the million almost on your you're on your way to Baby Steps Millionaire right good way yeah we got that book for you that's your next step and next stop and Total Money Makeover

book maybe to give to one of your class members and a Financial Peace University membership if you find somebody that can't go will assist you in your giving

uh your generosity plunge that you're

taking that's awesome so congratulations

you guys all right Jacob and Taylor

Tulsa Oklahoma 182,000 paid off house

and everything count it down let's hear

a debt-free Scream 3 2 one we're dead

[Applause]

free

w wow excellent

excellent this is the Ramsey

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[Laughter] [Music]

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shot

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our scripture of the day James 1 2 and 3

consider it pure joy my brothers and sisters whenever you face Trials of many

kinds because you know that the testing

of your faith produces

perseverance Franklin Roosevelt said

when you're at the end of your rope tie a knot and hold on Amen Kristen is with

us in Madison Wisconsin hi Kristen

welcome to the Ramsey Show hi Dave hi George thank you so much

for taking my call sure what's

up um so my husband and I were newly

married uh we just finished baby step

one this month uh we have

$45,000 in Consumer Debt and baby step 2

and as we're laying them out smallest to largest we also have some other pretty

big expenses that aren't necessarily debt and we're just having a hard time figuring out where they should fall in

our snowball what are they we have um so

we have two vehicles one of them we own outright one of them we have a loan for

$6,200 and the one that we have a loan

on is broken down um the rear

differential is completely seized up it's not drivable it's going to be about a $2,000 fix we're hoping to eventually

fix it and then sell it to get rid of it

um also we bought a house at the

beginning of this year and two weeks after we closed on our house the pipes

in the bathroom burst and so that is

currently completely gutted we don't have a shower uh sink um we in that

bathro at all uh that's the only

bathroom we have in our house so we've been showering at our mother-in-law's house um we've been going over there to do that for how long and then um for

about 6 months seven

months yeah she's two blocks away which

is great she's super close but it's

there's nothing great about this this

sucks oh my gosh what a mess and we you

ins wouldn't cover it um well that's the

other part I lost my job recently So

currently my husband is working y need to write a country song an hour we

showered my mother-in-laws and I lost my job yeah it's there's a lot wow so

what's he making he's making $18 an hour right now

doing what uh he's a machine operator what

were you making I was making uh 60k I was a

restaurant manager why'd you lose your

job um I was working in a restaurant um

I loved my job the hours were not great

I was working 60 to 70 hours a week salary so I took a different position in

the same it was another restaurant manager position and I moved over to

that it was going to be 45 hours a week

um and that would salary also so that

would allow me a little more time um but

uh a couple weeks into that they decided that I was not a good fit um and they let me go when was

that that was uh that was in June why

haven't you worked since June well that's the other thing my

husband um he

uh had his driver's license suspended

and the car broke down um so we were

able why did he have his driver's license suspended I can't believe

this it's been suspended for um for

quite a while he had to wait a couple years um there was a period of time DUI

for the points yeah and then for the points to fall off and so he can he's

eligible to get it reinstated now but it

is it's about $800 to pay all the fees

and for everything and then our insurance would go up okay so your excuse is you're a full-time driver for an $18 an hour guy I'm calling bull

crap that was a dumb idea you make more

than he makes yeah and so we were able to share

um we were working in the same town we

were driving yeah back when but now with

him being yeah yeah but now with you not

having a job you used driving him as an

excuse to not get a job so get another job girl couldn't you drop him and then go work and then pick him up or he gets a ride there's a lot what you did

before yeah so we were um I can I'm

looking at getting I've been doing um

applying for jobs there were a couple I got to the second interview um

restaurant manager positions and um you

know they ended up really not going anywhere but now what I'm looking at is

um what would be wrong with M working 60

hours a week now what was wrong with it then you were

broke yeah

um it was mostly the schedule and

driving back and forth and not being

available to pick him up because I had to stay late to solve a problem at work

and um so you lost $60,000 because he

didn't buy an

Uber yeah yeah you need you guys need to

you guys need to both be committed to 60

to 80 hours a week making $20 an hour

and you will solve a lot of these problems you have in a heartbeat instead

you're living in a house that's not even

habitable because you don't even have a

toilet or a shower and you haven't worked since June

you guys have got to go create some money girl you went from 100K down to 36

and you got 45 in debt so if we get you

back to work is not your problem your income the the fact you guys don't make any money is your problem and you don't work much yeah you both need he needs a new job he

needs a new job making 25 an hour and

two extra jobs making 20 an hour and you

need the 60 70 80 hour a week 60 to

80,000 to be the restaurant manager job

and buy an Uber if you're stuck at work

I mean can you wait tables in the meantime

yes um so that's what our next plan was

I can pay $125 to reinstate my CNA I

have to go take the the test but then I

would be able to get my CNA license back and that's I'm sorry what is a CNA

license what is a CNA license CER

certified nurse

assistant and what would that

pay uh $25 an

hour 20 why would you want to do that

when you can make 60 as broke as you are

why don't you go get you some

money I I've been applying for

restaurant manager positions I had two

where I went to the second interview

second interview uh process um I've

applied for for more than those but those are the ones where I was um

interviewed and you guys need to sit down you guys need to sit down and figure out the way on the short term not

what your dream is but the thing you can

do that is moral and legal that allows

you all to work the most hours and make the most money for about two years so

you can get your shower fixed and get your debt paid off but you're not going

to do it with all these theories in all these limitations and you're

finding all kinds of reasons to not do

this stuff um really honestly 50 Grand

solves your whole life 50,000 bucks you could have made

that since June if he was working overtime and you

were still working and so you really

have an income that your perception of work and

your perception of income on a temporary

basis needs to change that is your issue because you guys need

to BU you know $18 and I mean in a in a

world where most people are making 25 to

30 okay uh and no you don't go get a CNA

to make $25 an hour when you have the income potential of 60 to 880,000 at a

restaurant and in the meantime until you

land that you go get six jobs and you

guys work your tail ends off I'm fixing

my freaking toilet and my shower this is

crazy y'all go make some money girl we

want you to win but you you you guys

spend a lot of your mental the in

talking to you there's a lot of mental

gymnastics on how why we can't create an

income there was a lot of them I mean

you're like a a world class gymnast well

I know life has happened to you I know it has but got stuck in your head and

you got this Loop going and I'm trying to force you even if you get mad at me

I'm doing that because I love you I'm trying to force you to rethink your view on work well every question that was

well there's a story behind I know but

we at some point we just have to put it down and do it anyways and go to work anyways do the job we don't want to do anyways yeah exactly yeah you your

$50,000 changes your whole life you

could go make 50 to 100,000 more than

you made in the last 12 months in the next 12 months between the two of you

changing your view on work that's how

that's how fast your life can turn around and and the desperation that you

feel every day when you go to your mother-in-laws to take a shower will go

away that puts us hour of the Ramsey

Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily

with the Prince of Peace Christ

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Jesus do you love a good day brand want

to see the latest Ramsey Show videos going viral check out your favorite moments from the Ramsey Show on YouTube

go watch And subscribe to the Ramsey Show Channel on

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YouTube

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## 182. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 28, 2023)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRPuhPMKE5I) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:20:01 |

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live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it is the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing

relationships talking about the real thing I am your host Jade warshaw I am joined by maybe my favorite co-host ever

Dr John deloney over here to my right we're going to have a good time give us a call the number is 88255 225 we'll talk about your life we'll talk about your money we'll talk about your mental health and wellness but before we get into that Dr John we were just in the NYC we were in New York City this morning Party in the USA we were partying in

the USA we were in New York um for a media dinner we got to sit and hang out with a whole bunch of cool folks yesterday and then we did some media this morning and then we got on a plane and flew here just in time to save

America I'm like pinching myself somebody has to good grief I'm like what is happening I I went on social media yesterday and I was like all right you know come check out the TV we'll be on Fox news with you know America's Newsroom I was like wow that's crazy then this morning I was like hey come check out the TV we'll be on here with Fox and Friends I was like wow that's crazy our life is just really been cool

and it's all thanks to you guys uh thanks for listening to the show thanks for sharing the show thanks for tuning in whenever we talk we couldn't do it without you guys and without further Ado we got to take it to the phone lines we got Jessica in NYC we just came from

there Jessica what's going on yeah hi well thanks for visiting us

it was fun um I bet um so I am my

husband and I are trying to start to prepare for my retirement um in approximately five years um I am a teacher locally and I will be retiring with a large pension approximately $100,000 a year um but I also have an

opportunity to get a lump thumb um which is quite significant how do you determine what is the best course of action whether to take the pension and I know Dave usually says to take the lump Thum but due to me being so young and

potentially um being able to collect for an extended period of time and get spousal benefits for my husband I just want to know is there a calculator or a formula that you use to um to pick yeah

you know I all I can tell you is what I would do and I'll tell you the reason why I would do it and then if you have some information that kind of contradicts that feel free to share it um the reason I would take the lump sum and in my case you being a little bit younger is actually a good thing cuz I would take the lump sum

and then I would get with a smart Vestor Pro and I'd reinvest it and you are going to get a better rate reinvesting it in good growth stock mutual funds across the four types that we teach you're going to get a better rate of return than you were ever getting with your pension um because even the way we teach it we say like hey we we suggest for people to invest 15% of their income right

but if somebody calls in here and says hey uh I've got a pension and I'm putting you know 10% into it does that count as 10% we tell them no count it for like 5% and we say that because of the rate the rate of return that you're likely getting on that pension and so in your case if I were you you're going to walk away with

so much more money because if you get with the right investor and in the right funds you're going to have an awesome rate of return I mean what are you 50 uh I will be 50 this year so I have

um about five more school years after this one oh yeah that's great and I mean you're going to retire but I'm sure you're going to go on to do other things it's not like I'm going to work I'm a worker I'm so there's no no doubt that I'm not going to work but I am concerned because my husband is not GNA have a pension or a retirement

we do have a four or 3B but I am concerned to make sure that I'm preparing for him and leaving the Legacy for my kids 100% if you take the lump sum how much is it um it's estimated at 1.33 million girl I would do it right

now yep let me let me tell you two other things let me tell you two other things

um the first one is you are never

guaranteed tomorrow right and I wouldn't have a job if everybody lived to to be 95 years old

right and before this I spent a lot of time in homes in the middle of the night hugging husbands because their wives have passed away from and I have had health issu issues I'm a cancer survivor from 36 so so if you imagine your kids and your husband you've got this incredible pension that makes you're getting paid six figures and then you get sick and then something happens and then they're out and he's 60 years old with nothing versus you got this so I it

almost feels safer to me to know I've

got a million dollars in the bank that is going to compound every seven years if invested properly it's going to double and so you're thinking man if I live 21 more years right just to the

average um it'd be a little below average then you would have three four

four million dollar right four and a half I mean so you see what I'm saying minus whatever yall withdrew so I'd pull it out here's the second thing I would tell you and I'm just telling you this like if I was sitting across the table from my mom I personally I don't have any secret

info but I don't see a path forward for

all these pensions to pay out as they've promised similar to Social Security they've been so heavily leveraged and borrowed against and bond it out I don't

trust the fact in 30 years they're going to be paying what they are I just I just I don't see a path forward especially with their grown-ups in Congress acting like children throwing crayons at each other I just don't see it John you make a good point and that's a good thing to remember Jessica is a a pension can die with you like and you mentioned wanting to take care of your family

so that's one thing or if your company goes under that also puts your pension down the tubes if one day New York had we were just there and everyone we talk talked to talked about how New York hasn't come back yet the real estate um you know all those shuttered first floors of all those buildings that used to be just hopping if it would not surprise me

if New York has to um sit down with the union and negotiate and it' be a bloody battle and you know it would be but I just don't I don't see a path forward 30 years from now now hopefully I'm wrong I would do anything to be wrong um but man I'd much rather have $1.1 million in my checking account that's under my control that I get to decide what happens to down

the road than to Hope New York makes good choices because they have don't have a great track record so Jessica you're going to take that money get with that smart Vestor Pro you're going to invest it across four types we teach this all the time 25% into each category you got

growth growth and income aggressive growth and international that's what you want to do that is the path forward do you have any questions well what if we wanted to take some of that money and purchase some real estate oh I would ask I'm going to

hustle anyway I would ask if you are in baby step seven and if you are I would say yes do that becomes part of your your portfolio yeah at that time you will be yes that's the way to do it we're gonna relocate and get off of Long Island which is ridiculous yes ma'am that's the way to do it when you're in baby step 7 you pay cash for real estate

and you become even wealthier than you already are which is pretty dang incredible I love calls like that John it's awesome very cool and thank you for being a teacher and I'm looking at the statistics um jade and Jessica thank you

for not just quitting this year I know that's right you're going to ride out for five more years thank you those kids in New York are lucky to have you yeah and you're modeling for them what a hard worker looks like and a thinker looks like I'm so grateful that's awesome in more ways than one I love how she's wanting to take care of her family I love

when people really dial into um their money not just for the now but for the future because the the choices we make can cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars when it comes to investing what we're looking at what we're not looking at so I always admire when people are smart enough and diligent enough uh and intentional enough to call in and really get the right advice for their money hey

and by the way this is just an INE equals one experiment but my parents both changed careers in their 50s and they are incredible into their 70s so your husband says he's not going to have anything he could if he chose right now to start doing something different it's not too late this is the Ramsey

Show

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hey if you're in over your head with student loans and tired of getting calls from collection agencies if private student loan debt is taking away your financial peace and you don't see any way out you need why refi they're not a

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some payoff option you could qualify for after 24 months call 8442 Ramsey or go to Y rei.com

[Music]

Ramsey

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what's going on everybody you're listening to the Ramsey show thank you for listening I'm your host Jade warshaw joined by John deloney give us a call we'd be happy to take your call we'll discuss whatever you want to as long as it has something to do with your money or your mental health John over here is

really the best guy to talk about mental health and wellness tell them what you do John I'm not the best there's some really good ones out there but we'll talk to you about your relationships mental health whatever's going on in your world your emotional health life has gotten sideways for everybody and it's a mess it's a mess I like the way you talk about things though because for me there's no like lingo like it's not over my head it's like oh

I can do that like that's me he's talking to me so that's one of the things I like about the way you speak to the People John including me I'm one of those people but give us a call Tri 825 5225 and we'll

chop it up we got Ashley in Columbus Ohio what's going on Ashley

Hi how are you both doing good how are you I'm good I'm a little nervous so I wrote down my question that's awesome um just a slight just a slight background I've had three surgeries in a year and a half so the fact that John boney's on here talking about mental health these surgeries have definitely wait on me mentally um because of that we slid back

into baby step two due to all of the medical bills um that we accured with

that um we were making really great Headway until earlier this month we received a letter in the mail stating that we had a $2,000 bill that was about to go into collections um we had never

received notice of this bill prior um so when we inquired more about it um it was from 2021 to two years ago for physical therapy from my first surgery um we got

negotiated down from the 2,000 to about 1300 okay um however we're having a problem with the office giving us a final bill in writing that that is our

going to be our final notice and I don't want to be on the hook for $600 when I can't get anything in writing and honestly I just want these medical bills gone for for my mental can you my mental health and wellbeing have you driven over there um I have um and I've talked to a supervisor and they said we'll give you date that you know that it went over it came down to a dispute from my prior insurance and my prior employer um but

they're not give willing to give me anything in writing other than the dates and the most recent Bill we got was 1,800 so it came down a little bit but I'm afraid again we're going to be on the hook for all of that if we can't get something in writing do you have it I have a voicemail from them do you

have $1800 um not really we've got our $1,000

emergency fund and slightly over that we have about 12 and so we're working pretty quickly to get all of that um you

said the bill was col you said the bill was in collections right no it was the final notice prior to collection okay got it got it um let me

tell you what I would do and Jade tell me if I'm wrong I'll do just about anything for

peace in my home and I would probably um

as your husband as your neighbor as your

somebody that went to church with you as as your as your sister I would go drive

Uber I would go babysit I'd go wash cars I'd go do something and scr scrun up this money and just pay the stupid Bill and be done move on I it's so yeah and that's what my husband I talked about as well I it's just not worth my soul now my friend George Campell would he would he would get a tent and Via very bougie nice tent

because that's how he rolls but he would go park it in front of the hospital and he would or in front of the PT place and he would sit there every day until they finally so that's how he rolls it's everybody's different I personally if they did the if they actually did the therapy and and they did the work that they're claiming that they did I would pay them

the money and be done with it I'd try to figure out a way to make iten and here's the other thing you know this as well as I do one of the things that surgery the

mental health toll surgery takes is there's that scary sense that my body let me down right there's something about me that's not working right and then there's that pervasive pain that hurts all the time and they work you through therapy to slowly take teeny tiny little baby steps with that pain one of the ways you regain trust in yourself is not

through standing in front of the standing in front of the mirror and manifesting it's a whole bunch of little wins and my promise is if you and your husband scr and scratch and Claw and get 1,800 bucks and just get this stupid thing paid over paid out even though it's going to cost you some time you're going to miss some te- ball games you're going to miss whatever

you will stand a little bit taller that's a path right you'll have little step little step little step boom y'all are done you're out of our life and then you'll say all right we did it and then that will catapult you into getting back to Baby Steps three and four and on okay yeah and that's that's kind of was our second um kind of our fallback like hey

if we have no choice but to pay the 1800 and we don't take the discount then that's kind of the end of the the story with that and we move on to the next medical bill um and I agree with what you said it you know I do feel like my body has failed me since it's it's my series it's that's how literally it's exactly how I feel yeah M

and one of the best ways to get confidence back in your body is to slowly begin to use it again right both intellectually both working really hard towards a towards a purpose purposeful goal and doing physical things right and it's just one of those things that it you you feel like I'm going to do this workout and tomorrow I'm going to feel like a million bucks and

you don't you look in the mirror and you kind of look the same it's little bitty things that accumulate over time and then suddenly something's going to happen and you're going to be strong and you're going to think oh wow I'm back right it's awesome it just takes a bunch of little steps over and over and over and it's disciplined and it's annoying and it's slow and

it just happens and it happens and you're all going to get there and get it done I agree with that wholeheartedly I'd pay it um I want you to keep every piece of paperwork on this I want you to keep this paper trail especially if it's been inconsistent the

thing that's probably consistent is the account number so they'll be a if there's ever a discrepancy you'll be able to see hey this account went from 2000 to 1,800 I paid it you know you'll always be able to see that so always keep the paperwork um especially if you are dealing with a collections uh company you definitely want to keep the paperwork because those Jokers will come back you know five six seven years later talking about you didn't pay because you made a settlement so always keep the paperwork always in a file folder and do

not give them your checking account number they're going to ask you for the routing number so they can just um direct withdraw it do not oh that's such a good point don't don't don't send a money order or have your bank wire it but do not do not do not do not do not give them your in information cuz you'll have money leaking out of your account for

the rest of your life absolutely yeah in this case definitely case all right let's go to Manuel oh no let's go to Nia she's in Orlando Florida what's going on Nia hi how you doing doing good how are

you good um so I just had a question uh

me and my husband just recently decided

uh to do the baby steps good um we uh um

our income just recently dropped because he lost his job uh from like 880,000 to

50,000 um and we're already kind of like living paycheck to paycheck uh before that um so I wanted

to know if we should catch up on pass du

Bills first before uh saving an

emergency fund um or do we do the

emergency fund catch up on pass the bills and then go into pay the

day so I want I do want you to do the baby steps in the order I do want you to get cuz here's the thing that ,000 if you don't have that money you're going to just go you're you're just going to go more and more into debt and these things are going to get more and more past due but the key to making this work because

I don't want you to rob peter to PayPal the key to making this work is you've got to get that income back up um he lost his job what's he doing in the

meantime um I have uh he's been kind of

working my business um I have a

bakery uh so are you paying him

we no money that we get so it started

off as a hobby like literally since we needed extra money like I literally pop a 10 out in my front yard in the house and we just sell like cupcakes and stuff to the neighborhood and whoever walks past that's great for you Nia but right now right now he's got to get a job that pays I want him applying to like eight

jobs today and this is not the the beond and all this is whatever's local this Home Depot this Amazon this is whatever he can get very quickly and start making money very very quickly I'm going to give you a couple of numbers so you see how quickly this needs to happen the average person gets their $1,000 saved in 30 days that means you're selling stuff that means

you are working day and night that means if cupcakes are making you a little bit of money but you can make more money doing instacart this week in this month you're doing instacart stop stop making kicks yeah right now we're doing whatever is going to make us the most money because not only you need to get this thousand saved you got to get caught up on your bills

and if it's rent we're getting caught up on that one first if it's IRS we're doing that one second then we're working the debt snowball this is the ramsy

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show hey folks you know that sinking feeling when you you make an offer on a house you love and then you hear there's another offer you need the Churchill Mortgage home buyer Edge super fast

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more [Music]

[Music]

thank you for listening you're listening to the ramsy show I'm Jade warshaw your co-host with together with Dr John

deloney we're taking your calls all afternoon longle 8825 5225 we're going

to do it up with the neighborly question of the day today's question of the day is brought to you by neighborly your hub for Home Services neighborly is your one place to find Reliable HVAC plumbing and electrical providers near you Brands like airserve Mr rder Mr Electric have

local professionals ready to help so stop wasting time scrolling through pages of results when you can just visit neighbor.com today all right today's question comes from Josh in Oregon Josh writes I have no debt except for the house and I have one credit card I've never paid a penny of credit card interest I treat it like a debit card and pay it off every two to three days

next year my husband and I will acrw $122,000 in medical bills due to having a baby and my husband's medical condition meaning our insanely High max out of pocket my brother recently showed me a few credit cards that have a $11,000 bonus if you spend $4,000 in the

first three months since we have medical bills and the cash to pay the bills he suggested we get the credit card and use it to pay our bills get the credit card bonuses and immediately pay it off with cash I know you're very against credit cards but what is your opinion on this go you called the wrong

show um yeah dude you called the wrong show and I think that you should go with your first instinct because you said basically what does it say John she said that she knows that we don't do credit cards right I think she said that on there except except hold on she's special she's special and there's a medical condition a baby and oh so she's

the exception to the rule correct oh well in that case I'm still going to have the same advice that we always have

no credit cards I would never ever ever and this is being real I would never ever ever suggest anybody to use a credit card really ever the only time is

if for some reason they had like a maybe

if they were upside down on a car right and their credit was shot and so they couldn't go to a credit union you know to get a little extra money to get out of that upside down situation then maybe I'd say okay do it on a credit card right because you're going from a large amount of debt to a much much smaller amount of debt that is

the only time you would probably ever hear me say the words here's how you could use a credit card but in this situation you have money you have money and $11,000 to

shuffle around debt in order to get $11,000 in in in the time it took me to answer this call you could find a more productive way to make $1,000 doll I'm just saying all right so here's my two here's my two challenges with this I actually get the math on it yeah the math is fine you'll make your money cool assuming everything goes according everything goes perfectly right so I know the stress of having a baby I know the stress of having medical conditions I don't know why anyone would elect to

add additional stress to that situation I know to add more chaos like okay we got to remember to pay this one off because this one's got 1 th000 we're going to roll this one over to the 4,000 and then we're going to spend this in the three months we got to make sure we get this bill back I don't know why anyone would do that that's number one okay

but that's not enough for the math the math folks I get that too it's everything is worth it if you get that $ thousand doar or whatever here's my beef these credit card companies are not

your friend and so you are the rare and when

I say rare you're an albino unicorn okay

you don't exist in their world because if people like you existed in Mass they would close they'd go bankrupt they wouldn't exist you pay it off every two to three days cool so that $1,000 bonus you're going

to get is going to be paid for with late

charges by that single mom who cannot breathe in Southern Arizona whose husband just left her and she can't see

the light of day somebody's paying that thousand bucks and it sure as crap ain't the credit card company and if it's not you it's people that they've been praying on that they are desperate

that's why I quit using them when it came to Airline points I travel all over the place it makes perfect sense for me I'll just get reimbursed and I'll get all these free miles and it occurred to me wait a minute those flights aren't free I love flying Southwest but they are not my friend they're are great service that I give money to so somebody's paying for those flights

and we dug into it it's people who are in deep terrifying financial trouble and those are the folks that call the show every day those are the folks that email us and DM us every day and they're literally dying inside that's a that's

I'm not going to let a single mom who can't breathe pay for me to have $1,000 in bonus cash or a free flight to Dallas I refuse to be a part of that game I love that I I actually really like that way of thinking about it um and I think that probably if you were to take a poll of all the various Ramsay folks here we'd all have a different reasoning for the credit cards and I love that reason that's definitely something to chew on um my reasoning is

slightly different but similar but different my reasoning behind it I mean we can get into math stuff and you know debt and all of that but mine is and and you can tell me what you think about this John I don't like a company who a a

mass majority of their profit and revenue is based on people defaulting

failing failing the customer has to fail forom has to fail for them to make money of course they get money on transactional fees and all these other things but the money that they acrew in late fees and overbalance I'm like wait

a second cuz I can go there's plenty of companies out there I can go to Jordan brand and buy a pair of shoes and I don't have to fail in any way in order to get the service that's right like I can go over to Publix use their you know grocery store service or Instagram and or instacart you know grocery shopping app I don't have to fail in any way to get value from their service anytime a business's main profit source is

the failure of their customer thank Blockbuster they didn't make money on renting movies they made money on your late fees you had to lose you have to lose for them to win they will go away

yeah if you provide a service like an incredible shoe that has value that looks cool and we're just here to serve you we want to give you fashion I'll give you my money you give me fashion right that's a fair but if they fall apart or if when the new Jordans came out if they suddenly pushed a button like maybe one uh fruit company that makes cell phones does

and they push the secret button and your phone starts working not as well right yes the big red button they only make money when their customers fail yeah I have a major problem with that and then okay let's keep let's keep rolling this out cuz we got time on this clock John so there's that part let me tell you my next part about credit cards they get into your psyche

and they have told us for decades you can't exist without us and so Brick

by Brick they've toorn down our confidence to be able to handle money as individuals because they've said hey your paycheck's not enough you working hard 40 hours a week is not enough you need supplement you need extra you need

more you need to be able to keep up and here's how you can do that we'll give you this piece of plastic we'll loan you our money at insane interest rates and now there you go now you're good go play and so now we talk to folks all the time who call in and they're like Jade I'm terrified I'm terrified to cut up my credit card it has nothing to do with um

I want to get the points and the rewards and this no I'm just scared that I won't be able to manage my money without this safety net that I've had in my life for 5 10 15 years that's crazy and I hate

that a company has had the ability to destroy our confidence in that way to just go oh yeah yeah if I mean if I make $3,000 a month I just I can only spend $3,000 a month like I can go into I have the confidence to say I go into the grocery store and I just only spend $200

I have the ability to tell myself no and I have the ability to say oh if I say this is the goal and this is the plan yeah I'm confident that I can stick to that but we've totally wiped that out of our Consciousness and out of our confidence and now we're like oh I don't think I can say no like I don't think that I can actually stick to

this I better keep that piece of plastic as my fail safe so that's that's argument number three you got another one I got I got a number four let's go so they're going to give you a $1,000 bonus if you spend $4,000 in the first 3 months cool

what they are banking on is that you're

going to spend $4,000 in the first three months they're going to give you a th000 bucks they'll get that money back oh yeah they will get that money back and here's how the research shows you spend more money when you're swiping plastic than when you're paying with cash or even coming out of your debit card yes and so you might pay this thing off every two to three days

but you are expenses are higher percentage wise than if you were just carrying cash around that's right because it doesn't doesn't matter you're going to pay it off later so they're going to get their ,000 back in transaction fees that you otherwise wouldn't be spending they're going to get their money back opt out of the game

don't play with Predators man do not play the game we're not playing with you guys when it comes to these credit cards we are only going to tell you what we know to be true this is the ramsy

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you are listening to the Ramsay show I am Jade warshaw this is John delone we're with you all afternoon give us a call 88255 225 we just came from New

York City uh where we do something really cool there John um you know we get the opportunity to go on different people television shows news networks

podcasts and there's a lot of people that go into making that happen so many folks behind the scene producers and Bookers and all these people and I think Ramsey does something really cool by hosting a dinner to just say thank you to just appreciate all the people that let us let us near them and let us on their Airwaves and trust us and it was really cool to see that um how much goes

into that and so in the spirit of that I

really just want to say thank you to those listening now thank you guys so much for listening to the podcasts the YouTube channels everything I mean the fact of the matter is John and I would be unemployed if it were not for you and

so we're just super duper grateful um I don't think we say it enough thank you and let's um let's let's show show

people a little bit behind the curtain um he would never do this on the air but Dave's a Gruff guy on the air and he's tells it like it is you know it's when you see see Dave um in the the the lower

basement of a building and the way he

interacts with and tips the Bell hops in the shadows that nobody will ever see yeah and the way he said 10 years ago

man we're going on all these people's shows and there's the the hosts in front of the cameras M but there's all these people behind the scenes making this thing happen and their life is they're up at 3:30 in the morning they're making up all the all the shows making sure everything's running gun doing far more work than way more work far more work than us and Dave said we've been blasted beyond measure I'm going to fly my whole team up to New York

and we're going to take care of them for a night and so it's just that there's a generosity that's staggering behind closed doors um this just pretty cool to be a part of it is very cool but just want to take that moment and kind of let you know what's going on let us know that we thank you guys for listening if you enjoy the show it means

so much to us that you even have the grace in just to share it that you click subscribe all of that means so so much to us not only does it help us but it helps somebody else uh they get the message out they get the word they get that that that message that's going to change their money that's going to change their mind that's going to change their family it's

so so so important thank you and with that we're going to go to man well in Houston Tas what's

going on hello guys thank you for having me you're welcome thanks for calling in what's going on uh so I'm actually in a big mess um

so I have a backstory I'm a starter so you guys understand okay uh about a year ago I went through a really bad pH of

depression and well I made some dumb mistakes that I'm now paying for um I got myself into $70,000 of uh

debt I purchased things I I knew I couldn't afford but I just didn't care at the moment and well today I'm making

uh roughly about $20,000 a year maybe a little less than than that I am working on getting my uh CDO my commercial driver's license so I can make more money uh it's just this is really hard to get right now but to break it down for you I have about 19 or 18,000 in

credit cards and uh personal loans debt

okay I have uh bought a car uh it's a

very expensive car you guys are going to be so angry on me how much it was

$50,000 I now own 46,000 on it and I

also about a motorcycle that I owe like 5,000 on it you owe 5,000 on the motorcycle yeah okay um which do you

want to get first do you want to get John's take or do you want to get Jade's take you get to choose but you're gonna get both uh either one all right here's the deal man first thing before you get going I need you when this call is over to go look in the mirror and look yourself dead in the eye okay I need you to say the following I

screwed up but I'm not a screw up the game changes right now okay yeah I need you to repeat that

over and over and over I'm worth fixing all this stuff okay the funny thing you calling me and Jade 70,000 bucks doesn't make either of us blink because we've both had way way way more debt than that okay and both of us have gone through ups and downs so same team all right um

the $50,000 car that you owe 46 Grand on that's sold by the end of next week right yeah and after I selling the car already uh I just owe so much money on it and uh they will only give me like 34,000 have any money to uh pay for the upside down when you looked on if you look on kellybluebook.com what's the car worth or have you done that yet I've done it yeah $35,000 so it's worth 35 you owe 46 so

10K upside down yeah 9k all right um

we're going to deal with that we're still getting out of this car cuz at this point 40,000 is worth it to take a $10,000 hit so we're going to talk about that why oh real quick why are you only making $20,000 man um well uh I don't know how to do

msh um that's not true don't I don't believe that for one second not for one second yeah that's not true yeah can you deliver pizzas yes can

you drive Uber yes can you go find a construction site of all those building sites out in Houston and just throw brick yes hey yeah yes you don't want to

work you're going to work tomorrow right and you think that what you know how to do is not important and it is important because that's what's going to keep food on your table that's what's going to pay off your debt it is so important yeah I agree are you so let's let's change that hey are you in manuell

yeah I'm in okay we we believe in you

and we can't believe in you more than you believe in you okay yes sir yeah

okay uh we're locking that in so $20,000

I know you're working to get your D your

you know to so you can drive trucks CDL but in the meantime there's almost anything that you can do is going to make you more than $20,000 McDonald's if you're working 40 plus hours a week and I want you working I mean are you a single guy do you have kids uh well I have a girlfriend that don't count that doesn't count Felicia and

look in this season we're eating at home in this season it's McDonald's at home and it's Bob cuz you don't have any money okay and let her understand like hey right now I've got to focus on getting my life together I don't have the money to do to I I like you a lot but I don't have the money to just be taking you out to whining

and dining you not that you're doing that much anyway on 20,000 but I certainly don't want you using a credit card to do that so the game changes today we're going to get another job any job I want you doubling your income in the next month or two all right and you can do that we're doing that that's a yes all right yeah next thing is I want

you out of this car how's your credit I'm guessing it's in the toilet yeah it's terrible I

completely destroy my credit when I took all these loans and I'm actually miss payments already I just can't afford to make those uh to make some payments anymore on my credit cards and personal loans yeah I need you so are you current on the car or you're behind I'm current on my car uh just because I need the car I live in a big city I need to move around can you go sell that motorcycle this weekend for 5,000 bucks 100% I'm

also upside down on the motorcycle I don't care how much how far uh they only give me like 3,000 I owe 5,000 so I'm like two grand upside if I were you I would try to get I would try to find the difference um if you can't get a loan or a personal loan I try again this is the one time I'd suggest a credit card see

if you can find you know a 10 or $15,000 balance so you can get out of this car give them the 10,000 clear the Gap then take 5,000 to get you a cash car you're buying buy a car in cash do your research get the best car that you can get and you're going to be $40,000 Less in debt sound good yeah I I mean I've tried that already

I used to work at a dealership for like two years and um I know how the I know how that works it's just that I I I there's no way nobody will give me a loan for that uh I've tried selling I've tried getting a loan for so I can get another car and drive it around but you know I'm just too deep in the hole I guess all right

then the next the next play is I want you to look deeper into that but the next play here is you've got to get your income up because at the end of the day here's what here's what we know is true you can pay debt off as long as you stop creating debt you can dig yourself out of the hole when my husband and I started out with debt man well

I want you to hear this we made 30,000 combined we had

$460,000 of debt when I tell you things

are possible it's possible but it

demands you getting stupid on this debt

it demands you working working so hard to get your income up and I'm not talking about overnight this is year over-year month over month gains you're growing you're getting better you're earning more money you're decreasing what you spend and over time your life is going to change you're seeing the value and what you put out into the world and that's what I need you to get out of

this call you can do it when it comes to your money you can tell me that you won't do it but don't tell me that you can't this is the ramsy

show hey what's up guys it's Jade if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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Newsletter [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsay Solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I am Jade warshaw joined by John deloney we're taking your calls all afternoon your life your money your mental health give us a call the number is 8825 5225 we're happy you're here we're

happy that you trust us with your situations thank you for doing that and uh let's go straight to the phone lines we got Carlos in Los Angeles California what's going on Carlos hi can you guys hear me we can oh

perfect hi well actually I can't believe I'm on this gu I just I discovered you guys uh like last week last Thursday

YouTube and the podcast yeah so what do you think so far welome to our crazy gang yeah man and I literally fall asleep like last week and let me give you a backstory so I've been listening to you guys non-stop since last week you know

I'm I'm 31 fiance is 29 and on Saturday

we had a p of finances because I was listening to you guys hey Carlos talk hey hey Carlos talk directly into your phone for me uhhuh oh okay sorry I apologize um so we talk about site about

like having a budget maybe she was angry at the time I

can't hear you brother are you are you on speaker phone hold on Carlos Carlos can't hear you man Carlos Carlos Carlos can't hear you brother we can't hear you hey we might have to come back to you in a minute because we really couldn't hear you next time uh we'll get the call back but get off speaker phone or wherever you were getting better service and then we'll be able to help you out until we get Carlos back let's go to Brian in Philadelphia what's up Brian hey how are you good what's

up um so I just had a quick question I don't really have any sort of um issue

with saving money but my question is about uh student loan debt uhuh um I got

lucky with it and I got half of my college paid for and I went to a cheap School sweet um so I only have about

12,500 um I have more than enough saved

up where I could just pay that off and not have you know not have that debt right but um I have not been making

payments on it due to the pause and thinking that maybe um it'll be it'll be

canel or at least $10,000 so my question is is it worth just tackling and knocking out or is it a better idea to just continue making payments and Brian

you love it does it make you feel warm do you love it do I love what the

loan I do not love the loan now like when nobody's around do you go in like your room and shut the door and just hug it do you love it Brian the dream of the

dream of forgiveness died several months back pay it off right now what are you doing pay it off and and um I'm going to say something and it

might sting okay um pay off your student loan

and and do it with knowing inside your heart man this is awesome that I have the money to pay this off because so many folks call our show

and they don't have the money to pay it off not today and not for a couple for several years on down the line and when you wait out for forgiveness people who didn't even take out student loans or have their own they're fitting the bill

and so when you have the money to pay pay so that other people who didn't even have student loans aren't going to have to pay through any type of who knows what'll come down the pipe you know next election year or whatever maybe somebody's going to talk about forgiveness again but always remember nothing is free like first rule of Economics there's no such thing as a free lunch right everything costs and it costs the taxpayer and if you're a person in this country that can pay the bills that they signed up to pay pay it

you called the wrong two people cuz both Jade and I paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars and I'll tell you right now Brian if if those if those forgivenesses went through and Miss Jade had to add that to her taxes I'd be fired up cuz I already paid

280,000 you know what I'm saying Brian

yeah the part about the timeline and and I definitely got your answer uh on that and I kind of had a suspicion that you might say that yeah um but I was actually to pay it off and then right when I was about to pay it off the whole thing came up that it might just be forgiven so I figured if I paid it and then it immediately would have been forgiven

I would have thought to myself I should have invested that money elsewhere but you know I totally get your point though I think there's a bigger thing there's and I think we lose this this I think we lose this um

globally there is a a psychological and

in turn a physiological response to Integrity to standing up and keeping

your word telling the truth there's a reason why truth telling is woven into the fabric of every Faith tradition in human history there you you walk differently and when I was 18 and I signed up for all the stupid loans I signed up for I had no idea what I was signing up for Jade need I mean none of us did we were just doing the next thing everybody told us but we both put our names on a piece

of paper and said if you help me get through school I'll pay you back you did too and so I can see that you would have been like dude I got $10,000 more dollars in my pocket you know we got bailed out by the government Jade's right number one anytime any time a

government agency bails you out they will come knocking for a piece of Flesh at some point if you've ever sat in a history class they will come back to your door and say where's mine so always count on that but the big thing is is you would you would be like oh man I should have invested it but I did what was right because I put my name on a piece of paper

and I said I'd pay you back and there you go here's my money and I'm I'm moving on to the next and you know what thanks for that call Brian because we needed to talk about this with with the people don't you think that everyone would like to open up their bills and go ah I'm not going to pay that I mean no one wants to pay their bills no one wants to give away money like

it doesn't feel good and it doesn't it's not fun especially when you didn't realize what you're doing yeah absolutely but I'm saying it's it's not fun to write your check for your car pay

or you know pay online I'm sorry I just aged myself no one wants to send that online pay payment for their car but they signed up to have a car payment no one wants to send you know even though this is a little bit better you know your insurance payment you know and you're like gosh I never even use this thing and it's not fun to give away your money

but when you sign up for something you you say that you're going to pay for it and there is that piece of it that's there and when it comes to these student loans yeah I I can really get into this

here's the thing and I want to validate this because I felt that John I'm sure you have too with student loans is very different because you're looking around you're going yeah I was 18 somebody should have stepped in like it would have been nice if some adult had gone hey Jade you don't need to take out that much student loans because you know you've got a full right scholarship

you don't need to take out student loans to get your hair done and go to parties bu groceries like that's dumb Jay don't do that I would have loved if an adult did that I would have loved if an adult stood and really explained compound interest to me when it's working against you I would have loved that but nobody did I would have loved so many things to be different about that situation for

the people to say hey don't put your loan on forbearance because when you do that it's going to accumulate interest in you faster than you've ever could imagine no one did that and I can spend my whole life blaming them or I can go oh let me change my whole life I can't blame my way to a better life I've got to change the situation pay off your debt that's all

it is man this is the

Ramsay [Music]

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thank you for listening to the Ramsey Show I am Jade warshaw joined by best-selling author Dr John deloney and

I'm actually really excited John because you have a brand new book coming out it's coming out Tuesday just a few days just a few days that's right hey I'm excited tell the folks about it building a non-anxious life in a society and a

generation we have everything we're anxious beyond measure anxious beyond words and so wrote a book called billing and non- anxious life and it's um it's

exciting to say it's breaking all the internal pre-sale records and um it's got just a couple more days when it gets to Monday at midnight the um all the

pre-sale goodies will be gone and I think it's 75 bucks they say of uh of free stuff that that comes with it get online Ramsey solutions.com or john.com and pick it up and then come Tuesday October 2nd October 3rd yeah third October 3rd it will be in all the stores all across America everywhere else but I'm excited man let's get it out let's get it out let's get out that's exciting

so can I just ask something of course what store when this book comes out what store are you like I want to go see my book sitting on the shelf in this store I was an old like man I used to live my wife and I used to live in bookstores and so going like seeing a book in a Barnes & Noble's pretty Rad or walking by

and seeing it in a target's pretty cool I mean it's just just see it it's just surreal none of that surreal it's just weird John I'm excited for you that is super duper cool make sure to get your copy I know I got mine ramsy solutions.com that's where you want to get it let's go to John and Washington and by the way if you want to take a call

if you want us to take your call give us a call 8825 5225 and we will do

just that without further Ado we got John in Washington DC what's going on

John hey guys uh thank you for taking my call absolutely how can we help um so I

I I had a quick question so um so my

wife and I um um recently actually just

paid off my student loan and we're completely debt free now except for our mortgage way to go yeah that's a slow

clap right there good job yes and we

we've been uh listening to ramy's um show for a long time so um you guys help

turn my mindset around to do this the right way love that um so I'm that note

like we're we were thinking about so we

we currently own a condo in this area

and um we have a baby and we're going to

be putting her into dayare in about a month or two and it's kind of expensive um in the area so um but we've also been

looking at houses because we really want to own a home but we are not sure if

that is a smart idea um uh we make

decent amount of money but we're we're

not sure we can really afford it and with the interest rates going up and prices just keep Rising we just feel like we're never going to be able to attain a home and uh we're not sure

we're just looking for some advice on what you guys think we should do yeah and how we should plan for the next steps to hopefully own a home in the future yeah absolutely I think you're asking all the right questions and I think you got the right uh set of Weights in place it's like okay we got a baby we got daycare coming up yes we'd love to have a home all great questions to ask um my first question to you

because if we do do the math and figure out yeah you guys are ready that's great but I want to make sure that you've got a couple of things in place do you guys have an emergency fund fully funded three to six months of expenses yes yes we have um um we have

savings um but I mean I just spent about

like $40,000 to pay off my student loans okay so what do you have left so we have about um I'd say about

50,000 um in a savings account probably

another 16 stocks um and we probably

have around another um I would say 80 in retirement

accounts okay so you've got 110 that's non-retirement right yeah okay so that's great um I

would knock that down or siphon it off in your brain to whatever 3 to 6 months of your expenses are so are you a person who you feel would need three months to feel comfortable of emergency expenses if one of you were to lose your job or six months I would say six months for six months okay so if just quickly in your head basic expenses I'm not talking about a full

and by the way for anyone listening when we talk about an emergency fund it's not your full budget time six it's what you really need to just keep your home running all right if everything gets down to the wire right only what you need to survive that doesn't include the restaurant budget and nails and you know if your wife gets her lashes done that doesn't include all of that it's

this is your basic what it take barebones budget 3 to six months what would that be for you for six months probably like 20K I think oh only

20K okay are you sure well so like our mortgage right now

is about like 2500 MH um and probably

other monthly expenses if we really had to cut back probably could go to like 500 to a th000 a month oh wow y'all are living y'all are Living Lean um okay put

30 in there for fun thank you I was going to say just for me can you keep it at 30 put 30 in there for fun let's go with 30 I'll feel better about that um okay so 30 set aside that gives you 880,000 coming up uh to start putting towards a down payment okay so now what we want to think about here is how to buy a house to where it's a blessing for

you and it's not a burden all right which is you're going to have to do your research and I really want you to run the numbers we've got on Ramsey solutions.com we've got a mortgage calculator you can check out or you can just Google um how much home can I afford Ramsey Solutions calculator pop up right there but at the end of the day here's what I want

you to aim for John I want you on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage write this down 15year fixed rate mortgage I don't want the payment to be any more than 25% % of your take-home pay now this is your take-home pay after taxes only all

right see that's the problem right now

because I feel like that that payment that I would calculate so like I've been listening to you guys and I know the whole 15 year old 15 year Rule and all that right now we have a 30- year old a 30- year old 30-year mortgage and our

monthly with principal interest taxes and everything PMI is like 2500 right

and even that feels hard for us and

that's I mean I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest with you yeah your payment your payment for what you get is going to be higher because you're cutting it in half you're saying I'm not going to pay for a home for 30 years I'm going to pay for a home in 15 years and if you do it our way it's going to be even less do you know let me tell

you something John the folks who walk through our steps they become debt-free they pay off their house in the next 7 to 10 years cuz the goal here the goal of everything we teach this is not just for you for anyone listening the goal here is Ultimate peace and the way you get to Ultimate peace is there's no payments so we want you to pay off your home

if you get a 30-year mortgage at that point what you're saying is I'd rather have more space I'd rather have a bigger home I'd rather have all of these things rather than having the piece of owning my home not to mention when you don't have a home payment do you know how freaking rich you're going to be because how much you're going to be investing every month John talk to about

it well

John what what are you do in Washington Washington DC uh so I'm an engineer and my wife uh

works for a a company as a um she's a

legal professional okay so this is a conversation that millions and millions and millions of Americans are having right now which is this we really wanted this particular

job in this particular field in this

particular City could be because we want

to be New York people we love the energy of DC we love the the legal profession

here we love the X the W great what we're telling you is the math doesn't work in your favor and the question you and your wife have to ask and it needs to be like in an intentional fun where let's go get breakfast together and get some a sitter for the kids or for the kid it's a dreaming conversation but it's a hard conversation which is what do we want more do we want to have

access to concerts four minutes away and do we want to live by the subway do we like the quote unquote energy of the city or we want a home because the world needs legal professionals you're an engineer you can get a job all across America and you can cut your living expenses by 2/3 right and you can get a house for

for in some places for half you know you're 50% there um with just your down payment depending on what city and state you move to so the harder question is

what are we willing to give up for this dream of owning a home what we're telling you is mathematically speaking I don't care about how you feel about it cuz I know you want one we all do you cannot afford it given what you make where you live you'll have to deal with that [Music]

reality [Music]

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you're listening to the Ramsey show this is Jade warshaw this is John deloney we're taking your calls all afternoon John what's coming around the pipe all right we got two big things going on October 5th this is next Thursday I'm throwing a book release bash we're going to have punk rock music and singer songwriters and a PO it's going to be D it's going to get off

the rails they gave me one hour to plan whatever I wanted and it's going to be a blast um we're going to have a we're going to have a about an hour program and then I'm going to sign books and um take pictures until every single person is ready to go so um that's October 5th

let's up um go to ramsy solutions.com for that and our first ever money and

marriage getaway October 19th through 21st in Nashville me and Rachel Cruz

we're going to equip you and your spouse with tools to cast a vision for your family set goals create a life that you both love we're going to be talking about money we're going to be talking about sex we're going to be talking about everything that couples are struggling with right now and we're going to have a ton of opportunities for you to get one-on-one or two-on-one direct

coaching and conversations it's not going to be us lecturing this is going to be more conversational more um think think graduate school not um huge

lecture hall right they're gonna be interactive sessions and me and Rachel Cruz are gon to be your guys to discuss communication boundary sex money all of it tickets are 799 bucks it's a whole weekend it's going to include a great fun event um one one of the nights it's

just going to get off the rails also if you're out of debt you got room in the budget please come see us Ramsey solutions.com events and we have couples who have been married a few months and we have couples who been married 20 30 years who are circling back and say okay we want the back half of our marriage to be more awesome than our first half

and so we've got people from all over the Spectrum hope you'll join us ramsy solutions.com events like that let's go to Detroit we got Kylie what's going on Kylie hi there thanks for taking my call you bet what's going on okay so my husband and I are in a situation um so

right now we are just not making end meet meet we're in the negative every month and I'm trying to figure out if we F bankrupt or if we I don't we don't see

another way so we're just trying to figure that out right now so the bills that you have we're not paying the bills that we have and I'm assuming there's debt as well right yeah so we have that we can so we we're paying our bills we we're not behind on like food house electricity any of we're we're doing the taking care of ourselves and you're paying minimums on the debt as well yes okay yep so can you kind of list out the debt for us yes so we have um 880,000 in

student debt okay which we're we we're not paying on and I'm in school so it's all deferred um not that does exist but are you still acre hold on are you still AC crewing student loan debt um I think

technically it opens up this weekend right no I mean you said you're still in school so I'm saying are you still continuing to take I am getting y girl

we G to talk about that we're we'll talk

about that let's take it one thing at a time though so so far we've got the 80,000 in student loans what else yes um and we have 30,000 in personal loan it's

there's 25 personal loan and then um another 5,000 is credit cards okay and

so you're in school are you working at all while you're in school I I work um part-time from home we have four kids and we homeschool oh wow part-time from home four kids you're homeschooling what are you earning working part-time from home um I bring home around 21,000 a

year okay and what is your husband earning um he is making right now he just got a new job in his new degree field um and he's only making 36,000 a year what is he doing he's doing software support so he went and like got his it and coding stuff and he couldn't find a better

job yet when I hear what the coders are pulling in in this building it makes me wish I'd gone to coding school that's what we also thought but I mean we would take

any leads okay here's when you tell me your income

my brain goes to the average income the median income in America and I I'm

always striving to to get people at least to the median all right which is around 67,000 just to know like all right I'm in the game so yeah I really want that to be your goal very very quickly um you got $115,000 in debt um

if we want to make this needle move the secret sauce here is getting the income up and running like cranking

and the thing that I the thing that I want you to understand is you're you can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it and right now you're still adding to the debt and so any movement that you make forward is going to feel futile so what I want to do is stop the bleeding and so you're going you're going to school now what's the endgame of this this um so I'm in my

Master's to be as a licensed counselor okay how much time is left and how much more money is being added to this bill um how much time is left like

three to four years I'm doing very part-time and I I honestly don't even

know the end like probably at least another 50 can I say something really hard don't do that can I say it John I'm I'm I dude I

I've got a PhD in counseling I'm G tell you don't do it I was a I was a graduate school Professor here's why I'm telling you that 50,000 on top of the other 80

for a clinical mental health counseling degree is going to be a nightmare to pay

off and dude I was a graduate school Professor I need more counselors out there I want people to go to graduate school and get their counseling degrees here's the deal you're broke y'all can't afford this and you got four kids yeah you have to make some radical hard hard choices like we want the idea of schooling all four of our kids maybe they got to go to public school for a couple years where

we clean up the mess that the adults in the house made my husband really wants to be a coder but he can make about that much money being an assistant manager at McDonald's right now he's G to go find a job and a second one too y'all are in a

situation and I think you want to have I want to be a licensed therapist dude I want that so bad for you we want to homeschool our kids I so badly want that for you want him to be a coder cuz they keep saying we're going to make $200,000 I want that for him too but the reality is those things aren't real right now MH what is real is y'all can't breathe because um you owe so much money and let

me tell you this and you probably learned this in your grad school classes already your children absorb the tension in your home yeah and if Mom and Dad can't pay bills then Mom and Dad are struggling with each other and those kids are absorbing that every second of every day see what I'm saying and so sometimes it's a Dream Deferred several times in my second doctoral program

I had to quit I took off a semester because I had to take care of things at home I had to take care of things with me and my wife and so it may be the time and there's going to be a state school that I promise you can get a great clinical master's degree that's going to be infinitely cheaper than what you're doing and you'll be able to pay cash as

you go this I know it's hard but I you and your husband aren't being yall aren't dealing with reality and and I don't mean that like you're not living on the moon y'all just don't make enough money and you want to do this and you want to do this you want to do this um if you put all four of your kids in public school on Monday day

and you went to work full-time you instantly are able to breathe instantly and if he says three of them are too young for school but yeah okay but you know you get you get the sense of what I'm saying right um and or you

reach out to somebody at the local church and you get some help or you take your parttime job and and your you look at your husband say you're making 36 Grand you were trying to get off the ground with this great and I know you want to be around with all four kids great but we have to have more money right now yeah there is going to be a sacrifice there's going to be TR no way there's not a sacrifice there's going to be a sacrifice going to be a trade

and that's based on what you say the priority is I mean we can say this is a money show and this you know John's going to speak to the other side of it but we're always going to prioritize what gets you feeling peace and feeling freedom first and I think a lot of times people think oh like probably in your mind you're like oh I'll get my degree I'll be able to earn more money

and that was the path but then you pull back and you're like wait a second this is just creating more like frustration more debt more chaos and when that happens you do have to stop and regroup and go okay what was the price priority again what was the thing cuz it can't everything can't be A1 if everything's A1 then you start going crazy really quickly yeah and

so something something goes on the chopping block and that's the really really hard part of this conversation uh not just for you Kylie but for so many folks listening thank you for the call because I think just by you sharing your story it provides Clarity for a lot of people cuz John you're so right you have to make hard choices very rarely in life do you get to just get all of

it at once well and you mentioned something goes on The Chopping Block and if you don't want it to be your degree it doesn't want you don't want to be your career dream it will be your marriage yeah it will be your relationship with your kids yeah it will be your peace something has to pay the piper and so let it be the adults in the house that is such a good word uh yeah

you got to make the sacrifice and you know what sometimes I don't like the word sacrifice John I like to call it a trade cuz it's really what are you trading what are you getting in return and when you say it like that it has I don't know a better ring to it this is the ramsy [Applause]

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you are listening to the ramsy show I am your host Jade warshaw joined by bestelling author Dr John deloney host of the Dr John deloney show love to say that and uh I wanted to let you new folks listening know that if you're listening number one we're happy that you're here but number two you probably hear us talk about things all the time that you're like hey I'm new here

and I feel like you guys are using some inside jargon some lingo that I don't understand help me understand and and if that's you I want you to go to ramsy solutions.com and I want you to click that little get started button because that's where we're going to meet you where you're at we're going to explain this whole thing to you we're going to talk to you about

the baby steps we're going to explain what all that means and finally you're going to feel like you've come into the fold the ramsy fold and you're going to go oh my gosh I get it now I loved the show before but I love it even more now that I understand all the things that they're talking about so do that today go to ramsy solutions.com click the get started button

and uh

we'll help you figure out your best Next Step here with Ramsey Solutions that's amazing in the meantime let's go to Michael he's in Scottdale Arizona Michael what's going on buddy hey I had a quick question for you guys I was wondering at what point do you sell um stocks and mutual funds to payoff baby step number two uh I've made a oopsy

last year and we're probably about 65%

over an individual stock purchase um

negative on that but at what point do we just just cut our loss sell it pay off

baby step two and just move on yeah are

you doing man what what were you doing did you did you get like an Insider tip did you like read a magazine no absolutely not it was an IPO opening and I was like a this is going to do well and it did not but oh man you put all you pushed all your chips in on that bet how hey I love the way you said it was like it's just an oopsy

so it was either like 100 Grand or it was 4,000 bucks what was the oopsie it was ,000 bucks I made an investment and it's you know down to about 4,000 now so um and how much is the

debt um I've got about 60,000 uh in debt

right now um shoot yeah okay so I'm the

way you framed it was as though if you sold the 4,000 in stocks or whatever what it was in stocks that that would be enough to clean up the debt is there more money because you also said mutual funds yeah I've got mutual funds just some Savings in general probably um with all that combined of maybe 35 40,000

okay and that's non-retirement non-retirement accounts so we're close to just paying off the debt and with our income we probably can clear it in the next you know six to eight months or so so I'm just trying to it's hard to let go of a loss like that maybe the market will go up but that's the whole game right it never does or when you need it well in

this case I mean over time it's going to go up and if this was sitting in a retirement account I'd be like yeah it's fine let it let it ride but in this case

you're trying to pay off your debt and so I would definitely say go ahead and liquidate that money there's going to be a tax implication on it for sure but in this case it's it's worth it to you to clear this debt you're still going to have about 15 16,000 left that you need to pay and I it sounds like you'll be able to cash flow that and get the rest of that out of your life pretty quickly yeah it it is yeah how much you

said you and your partner H can do it in eight six to eight months how much do youall make uh we make we own our own business we make upwards of uh about 220 a year

wait a second good God Almighty how do you not have this paid off by Christmas you know what I know cuz Michael's playing Michael you're over here playing games aren't you Michael you're playing games you're like I'mma do a little of this I'mma do a little of that it's so hard sometimes to you know

I don't know just not hang on to it right and just kind of finally you know I just finally kicked in um you know a few months ago of like gosh let's get this out of here why is it here why do we have this debt let's build you know this freedom and wealth and you know so

I'm just trying to I I I would love to see you cash everything out and pay the stuff off this weekend and have a huge celebration like do it right I'm for real and then you and your partner look at each other and you'll have um October

November and December and say for Christmas our Christmas present is let's owe nobody anything let's have an entirely free household we're free we are free hey what's left to go on the

mortgage uh quite a lot we purchased a home in uh the peak of 2022 and um but we we did gain a ton of

of equity in our previous home and so you know we just kind of transfer that over but we do we've got $675,000 okay

you make 225,000 so you're going to put that on a seven-year plan you'll be done in five yeah that and and thank you John for getting to that because that's the picture that I want to paint for you going forward because I think you're a smart guy I think you're a guy I mean you've got a great income you've kind of been dibbling and dabbling here and

I kind of want to give you the framework for how you can do that in a way that's going to give you peace and make the most sense I mean hopefully you're investing 15% of your income into retirement is are you doing that or more

yeah we are I've got automation of our you know our business just pays into our into our plans and I'm trying to automate that I've already put in a thousand more towards princip of the home just to do it you know just to say it's starting to go in that and let's be very intentional about that I mean over here we would say invest 15% for retirement

and if you had kids put some in the 529 and then you know be intentional it doesn't have to be everything that's extra going to the house it doesn't have to be super intense but be super intentional you know like you said make it automated every month this is the plan sit down with your wife we putting x amount of dollars towards the mortgage and before you know

it that mortgage is going to be gone on and you're going to have the extra money to play around with investing more and if you want to do single stocks it's like look I I've always talked to Dave about that I'm like Dave when's the best time to do single stocks he's like look if you want to play around with stuff like that as long as it's no more than 5% of your total net worth like whatever knock yourself out

but I think it's good to that's only you have enough money to burn in the middle of the living room right yeah I mean exactly you did like

you he's going to have money to burn he's going to have he's going to be a he's going to have his home paid off at 600 it's worth 6 75 now right so it's going to be skyrocketed by then so does that does that sound like more fun Michael it certainly certainly does yes

good good I appreciate the encouragement and the extra push will you call us back at Christmas on on December 24th we have a we have a like a show right before it just to do your debt free scream I'm challenging you I'm giving you a 90day challenge oo I appreciate that I will um I'll talk to my wife and we'll we'll work hard to get that then I love that it's like Yoda stuff there is no try 90 days come on Michael you make a quarter million dollars yeah do it do look thank you

Michael for the call and hey keep listening because this next thing I'm going to talk about is kind of about you and not just you Michael but so many people let me tell you the most dangerous place to be in John is when it

it it comes in a couple of ways in his case he's got a nice income and his debt is there but it's not rocking his world

it's not making him duck and Run for Cover right or somebody who makes maybe $120,000 a year and they've got 20 $25,000 of debt it's not like they're not shooketh right they're just like I've got this debt it's a little annoying but I'll make it work King James shook shth they're not shooketh

when you got Sam and Jade type debt to ratio income you are under the ground you're running for your life you don't have a choice and so I those are those calls are always the hardest cuz it's like I can bat It Around the Net a little bit longer for now for now and those are the ones that you look up in 5 years down the line 10 years down

the line suddenly it starts eating a hole bigger and bigger because you can't out earn bad spending habits you can for a little while but after a while it catches up with you and it's going to bite it's going to take a big old chunk out of your booty can I say that online you can and you say probably whatever we want online but also I always again

I always feel like I'm Debbie Downer it just takes one shift in the market one thing that that Scottdale decides to do with a regulatory issue and your business is over yeah and you have a $600,000 mortgage that was a great deal cuz you rolled $300,000 in equity into it I don't care yeah and now you've got 60,000 bucks and you can't eat right it happen we would not have a show

if it didn't happen that's not going to happen to me I'm an engineer I'm a AI is coming for you I've got I'm a this it's coming for you right so be very very I love how

cancer is cancer whether it's a lot of cancer or a little cancer you got to deal with it you got to deal with it because that thing will grow and at the end of the day really what it's about is the habits that you're forming you know when you say ah I know I can't afford that I put on the credit card I'll be able to pay

it off right those are habits that you're forming every day and so what we're teaching it's so that you ingrain better habits so that over time you're building a better Financial Foundation it doesn't have to just be this one F swoop thing we want the daily choices that you make ah daily choices see what I did there we want that to be what shapes your financial future

so that's how it works Michael thanks for the call you helped us you helped a lot of other folks thanks for listening that does it for this hour we'll catch you next

hour hey it's Dr John delone if you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money Journey we have a Weekly Newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsay way just go to Ramy solutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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Newsletter live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth we help them do work they love and create

actual not fake actual amazing

relationships I am Jade warshaw your co-host joined by Dr John deloney to my

right we're taking your calls for the next hour we'll talk about your life your money your mental health you can give us a call 8825 5225 and we will do

our best to answer your questions and number one I always grateful that you guys even trust us with your life like you guys call in you're willing to share your numbers you're willing to share your deepest darkest secrets we definitely do not take that lightly so thank you so so much and um another thing that we don't take lightly thank you for watching thank you for listening uh one of

the things that you guys do that's so incredible that we're so grateful for uh is you share the show and my I'm like can you just keep doing that if you like the show click the little like button if this has done something for you subscribe or if you know someone that would benefit from the things that we're talking about in here every day day go ahead

and you know share the episode with them slide them the little paper airplane so they can see it uh send them a you know link text it to them that does so so much um not only for us it does a lot for us because it's great for the algorithm but it does a lot for people because we exist here to help you guys and help people

and that's our great privilege and honor so thank you for doing that John I'm ready to go to these phone lines because we got Allison in Toledo Ohio Allison what's going on girl hi thank you for taking my call doing good how are you I'm good um so my

question is I have a daughter that's going to be going to college next fall um the problem is she has been struggling with an eating disorder for five years um we've been through like numerous therapists dieticians residential stays uh she's stable but

nowhere near recovery um I don't want

her to go to college but her therapist

thinks I need to just kind of let her go

and I can't make her recover she doesn't want that want to do that herself and I guess I'm just scared because I'm afraid she's gonna go and then she's she's sorry yeah um she's gonna go

and then she's just GNA wither away and I know I have a year away but I'm just

like terrified and I just don't know how to deal with it no thank you for sharing that um o over the last two two decades I've

with a number of moms in your very situation okay so you're not you're not alone in that it's hard um and let's I I

always like to enter into these conversations um especially in this kind of format in a radio show um with as much truth as possible is that cool yeah

okay you and I both know that disordered

eating is one of the if not the most lethal Mental Health Challenge right

right it's not something to mess around with and we also know that when our kids

are hurting we will do anything and sometimes what we do ends up we build fences and in a weird way that can make

challenges for the growth and safety and development and healing for some of these challenges right until it becomes this weird recursive I don't want to be a part of the problem but my therapist the therapist is saying I need to stop doing this but I feel like I have to do this and so here's what I would do um

okay is there a risk of sending her away

100% absolutely no question about that anyone who tells you there's not they're lying to you okay okay

and I have been a part of multiple teams

at multiple universities from a giant R1

research institution with 35 or 40,000 students at it to a small faith-based community and the other universities in between that with a parent and with a student and with the right care team what made up of of a nutrition and made up of uh Mental Health Providers on campus and sometimes medical providers on campus there ends up being an amazing team and then you throw in residence hall directors and the ability to make friends and get community okay there is an opportunity it sounds to me like you a have concerns

about her health and well-being which are all true and you have a licensed mental health professional saying in her professional opinion this is the next best right move that's number one number two it ALS also sounds like you need to

do some work dealing with the opening of your hands and letting your daughter move to the next stage of her life which is scary to do is that fair yeah yeah and I

actually have been seeing a therapist past month and I mean she says that too

she does good so um it's hard when when

a mental health professional tells me a parent uh maybe you've got some stuff you need to work on and I'm like no it's they're the ones with and so follow follow the wisdom of of the Professionals in front of you okay and I'm going to tell you to balance that with go with your gut moms especially but moms and dads are pretty intuitive but if I'm sitting my kid

and I'm in your situation okay I have a seven-year-old little girl and I wouldn't wish it on her as you wouldn't wish it on anybody but let's say I find myself in the same situation what I would do is sit down with the college that my daughter's going to go to and we would sit down with the there's going to be a care team a student support

and emergency team it's going to be some group of people that have a 360 degree view of your daughter academically residen H experience mental health provider Etc and we're going to create a plan and everybody's going to be a part of that plan and a part of that plan will be the school will call you if they get really concerned about the health and safety of your daughter okay okay

so do you think a

smaller school would be a better choice then um I think there's going to be I I

I wouldn't say that because because they may not have the resources of a larger school so I don't I don't know that I think it's going to be very specific to your individual situation and where your daughter feels like she is going to be safe and where she's going to have a good experience um and here's the deal

I'm not special guys like me men and women like me all across the country chair these teams I ched one of these teams at several different places okay so if you can just imagine a knucklehead like me sitting down saying okay do we have the right therapist the Right medical provider we've got the right people here and then the work on the other end is let the professionals do their job and Mom you do the work on opening your hands up and letting your daughter who's now an adult slowly transition into

adulthood okay which stinks I know did you want me just to say no keep her home don't ever let her grow up would that have been so much easier no no I just

I've been trying to be so strong we're going this college visits and I'm being like really excited for her but like inside I'm a nervous wck you can be

both okay and hey I think it's fair to tell your daughter I love you to the moon and back and there's nothing in the world other than maybe your dad that I love more than you and so I'm your mom it's going to be hard on me divorced oh you're divorced okay so no so in many ways she might have been your identity for a long time right yeah has

she been your purpose and reason for being yeah she's been propping you up for a long time and it's going to you're going have to tell her I'm going to have to work to let you go and so it's going to be hard for me your mom it's not her job to make you feel better that's not her job ever ever ever that's your job to do that kind of work right right

and so I would be honest with her be honest with her she's smart she's going to college she's smart and she loves her mom and also um trusted

Professionals in in in her world there's going to be a whole team of them if you pick the right school I'm proud of you for going to counseling on your own too this a hard hard hard season you're going through this is the ramsy show

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if you have questions with your money questions about your budget questions about college choice questions about

mental health choices you're feeling anxious about money anxious about student loans coming back if the national debts got you feeling some type of way if the debates have you feeling some type of way man give us a call we want to talk about all of that you'd be surprised at how all of these things filter into our choices that we make with our life and our money

and if we're not aware of that on Down the Line we'll look up and be like oh my gosh I've created a mess so if any of those things are on your mind give us a call the number is 88255 225 we'll help sort it

out with you it would be our great place pleasure let's go to Matt in Mesa Arizona what's going on Matt hi thanks for taking my call you

bet hey um exactly what you were saying

there um some of those things you know inflation and cost come on it's real right factor in yeah they factor in but

my questions um specifically with Bitcoin and I I'll get to it but where my wife and I are at is um through baby step four so we're

completing um contributing 15% to our

retirement account and then the next steps are obviously the 529 or college savings and paying off the house right uh we're not there salary-wise to start contributing to five and six yet uh maybe in a couple years with a raise we'll start doing that but we have about a Bitcoin in uh it just saved up so if

you cash it out after taxes it probably be worth 20K would you but that's my

question for you uh relating to bitcoin what would you do with that Bitcoin and the situation that um that I'm in are

you guys how long have you hold how long have you had it since 2015 has it been so

fun yeah it's been a roller coaster it

seems like it's been like more of like a backyard slide yeah I yeah so like just directly from top to

bottom I'm just glad you're ready to get out of it dude I would sell it before the day was over most definitely and um

you know you're you're contributing the 15% to retirement like you should be um I'm not mad at you guys using that and kind of putting a a chunk into the 529 if you wanted to do that because that is important how many kids do you have we have a four-year-old and entally you know another one next year which might be some of that savings if if we cash

it out sa some of that for another kid yeah when it comes to the 529 uh we don't have many hard and fast rules on the amount that you have to contribute and how often you should contribute and all those things because the fact of the matter is everybody's situation with their kids when it comes to their education is going to be different and you're at the stage where

you really can't predict it at all like you know you don't know if they're going to grow up to want to do ivy league or if they're going to do the trades or if they're a musician and they just want to rock out you like you don't know what that's going to be and so as a parent it's really up to you to choose the best option

I don't know that I would start with 20,000 that just feels like a lot and once you're in it you're kind of locked in now not obviously down the line that money can re can you know convert into retirement money and it can go to different siblings so that's a conversation between you and your wife I do want you to be contributing something into that 529 but also know that four

five and six um if possible should be done simultaneously so I'm not mad at the idea of taking some of that money and putting it into the 529 to get it rolling and then taking the rest of it and throwing it towards the mortgage how much do you owe on your mortgage um 235 235 you know that's up

to you there's not a wrong answer on this if it were me if I woke up in your

shoes if I woke up in your shoes I might

reverse engineer it a little differently I'd probably throw like a th000 into the 529 and be like okay every year I'm going to put x amount of dollars in and I'd probably put the bigger chunk toward the mortgage that's what I would do and maybe even have a contest with your wife and see if y'all could get down to where it was 199,999 bucks before Christmas or something like that

it just feel good right yeah oh yeah when you get to when you get below the z z Oh you start making those moves and so I I that's that's probably what I would do how what what did you buy into Bitcoin what was your initial Buy in uh I bought half for

300 bucks okay and then a whole one for 1,500 bucks I I already got my money back okay you're good yeah I I love that you're just willing to sell it I think that's the right move as far as what percentages to put where I don't think there's a wrong answer but I think I

don't think there's a wrong answer in my mind what feels a little bit more wise I

hate to use the word wise what feels like there's less um unknown let me put it like that is you know you've got to pay your house off um you know you that's that's a given you know you want to have some money set aside for some further education of your child you don't know what that's going going to be yet so it's not like we have to have 150,000 set aside for school you don't know that you know so there is some

thought with that you might say hey we're going to put 20,000 in we're going to set it and forget it and let it grow and what it is it is so those it actually Sparks um Matt some bigger

conversations about education and you and your wife sitting down and going okay what's our goal here uh 529 is great yeah we want to add to it but what are we saying we're going to contribute are we saying we're going to match them dollar for dooll regardless of how they further their education is our plan that we're going to fund whatever that thing is 100% is our plan is you know so I

think that's honestly the first conversation and then whatever you guys come away from that conversation will uh

lead you down if you're going to put most of it towards a mortgage or put most of it towards a 529 and I'll say this too I spent most of my career in higher ed and I've got a 13-year-old who's just a few years out and I've got a seven-year-old I am I have not a a single doubt in my mind that what I know to be college and the university experience right now will be different for my seven-year-old yeah so that's where we're at we're conflicted on um what to

do in that situation so I I think you're right it makes more sense to with any extra cash pay down the house and even having grandparents that would more than likely step in to help pay for some of that college for a grand kid um I wouldn't count on it yeah not planning on that but um like you said not necessarily wiser but maybe the more for sure thing is to pay down

the mortgage so and again start with that conversation with your wife like set the expectations so you know what the goal is because it it's you know sometimes with this stuff we just start throwing darts and it's like hey I know I'm supposed to do something like that and I know I'm supposed to do something like that and it's like H throw ,ll in there throw $500 in

there but what really motivates us and what really makes us feel awesome about what we're doing is when we know exactly what we're aiming towards and why then as you get closer it's like that's freaking awesome like we're really doing something so that's what I'd say Matt feel good about it thank you yeah I think the the mindset has changed after having a kid and just kind of settling down a little bit where

we want to have more peace with our finances than being you know kind of no kids or uh before that single and and

I've never needed the Bitcoin but I think that's it's hard to have the mindset of well so volatile it could go up 200,000 and it could also go down and so I don't really want to sell it which is kind of why I'm calling in yeah but uh having peace with with finances is probably more important for us so I'll I have that confirmation conversation with my wife and and uh go from there I think

I think it's worth it look you guys are out of debt number one so it's not like I'm like sell this to get out of debt um what's your net worth by the way like what do you what else do you have invested I'm just curious uh good

question um Beanie Babies we always say

like things like this Bitcoin and and single stocks and um little things like that that you just are dabbling around in you don't want that to be more than 5% of your big picture and you certainly don't want to be putting money into those things currently until after baby step 7even until after you're you know doing all the doing all the important things right then it's like

when you have money to play if you have money to play um you might do stuff like that but the way it sounded um you I feel like when you first called in you said hey we've got the money to do baby step four but we don't necessarily have it to do five and six and so I think that right there was the the dial that you turned that's like okay

then it's it's time to sell this off if you were like hey we're just rolling in the dough should I just go ahead and sell this to I'd probably be like H who cares but because it does matter to you and it matters in your world I definitely would sell it I think you're making the right choice I love these conversations John yeah and I I never want people to forget

if you don't have a mortgage can go a long way to help cash flowing part of college 2 when it comes around right oh yeah I mean that's all that money freed up just freed up money the mortgage is the biggest piece of people's month-to-month income and it's one thing when you go from renting to ownership and it's a whole other thing when you go from ownership to no payments like

I literally own this free and clear you can help cash flow a community college with no problem oh that's what I'm talking about this is the ramsy

show [Music]

[Music]

now what's going on people it is the ramsy show I am Jade warshaw your host I got John deloney on the ones and twos to the next to the next side of me remember that when they used to say that I do I do on the on and I don't even I don't even know what that means I guess it just means that you're uh I thought it was the turntables yeah the ones and twos though okay clearly I've never worked a turntable um tables in a

microphone where it's at that's what I'm talking about all right yes I got that John I got that okay I know about Beck I

know what's going on here we're going to go to Michaela in Honolulu Hawaii

Michaela what's going on hi yeah so I'm just trying to see if

I can figure out a plan to help me and my family get out of um like living

paycheck to paycheck yes ma'am you're living in one of the most expensive places on the planet is it rough yes it

yeah it's rough um but there's no no

room to leave like I'm not leaving this is my home so I just have to figure out

what to do next um can you give us a

little bit of a can you give us a a big picture of what's going on can you tell us what the debt is can you tell us what the income is would help you out yeah so my husband has about $20,000 in student loan debt um I'm at home with two kids

so I can't really work um how old are the kids and then he um five months old

and two and a half okay yeah and then um he makes about

like 50,000 okay um he just finished his

degree um so like he's looking for more jobs and he got offered a management position at his job so that he doesn't

leave so there's potentially more money coming in um but I mean it's not going to be significant enough to really make a dent if you know what I mean at first yeah I mean what are we talking he goes from 50 to 55 or he goes right yeah okay that's right and so

just the 20,000 in student loans is there anything else no okay um 20,000 in student loans

feels like a lot when you're making

50,000 um 20,000 in student loans feels

a lot better when you're making 70,000

880,000 right right so what we need to

do is we need to open that Gap a little bit CU right now it's like man this is almost half of my income and in the United States you know the median income is somewhere around 67,000 and I really really really want to get you as close to that as possible so you're staying home with the kids I got to believe there's something in this internet age

I believe I know Michaela there's something that you can also be doing to bring in some money right obviously you're staying home with the kids CU you're like hey it's too expensive to put them in child care right did I guess that right right yeah I mean it's also

just I can't let somebody else watch my kids too you know wait a minute wait a hold on hold on hold on you've told me you can't move you've told me you can't let somebody watch your kids you told me you can't work and then you're calling us I've started a you know I've started a business so I'm trying to work something that I can bring my kids with to sell at uh our markets

and stuff here yes that's good can I got to cut you off that's good but we need money today yeah you're you're with your ideas with the way things like your your

your non-negotiables are burying you

guys you don't have enough money right and so you're gonna have to you and your husband gonna have to give like he wants to have this management job cool I need you to go to McDonald's and work the night shift because I'm sure not working so you're going to have to work two jobs or three jobs or I'm

going to start seeing keeping three of my neighbor kids over at our house but

when you go into problem as desperate as you're in we can't make the bills and

those little kids are absorbing your husband's tension and your tension and your frustration and you go in with a whole bunch of can't do that can't do that can't do that can't do that that's a tough way to solve a problem well you're cutting you're cutting the legs out from under you and it's not just you Michaela we've been having this conversation all afternoon with different callers everything doesn't get the yes like everything doesn't get to stay you do have to go through and go hey yeah everybody look not everybody but most

parents have the ideal scenario for their kids and that's what they want I would love you I wish I could bring my kids to work and I could see them all day every day but I can't do that and do this job uh so there's there's a give and take there um when Sam and I my husband and I were getting out of debt I wanted to be able to do what everybody else does which is

you know you come home after a long hard day you know you you order a pizza on a Friday you watch Netflix I didn't get to do that because we had to pay off our debt and so there's part of this that you just go okay I have to make changes and they

will be painful and I want people to hear that it doesn't feel good when you're paying off your debt it sucks it hurts you sacrifice you strain and you

push yourself to limits that you're like man I don't feel like the guy next to me has to push himself to the type of limits that I'm pushing myself to but at the end of the day you turn into a different person and that is that is the pricee Michaela that's at the end of this you turn yourself into a different person number one that person's debt free right

but number two no one can hold a candle to and no one can tell you anything other than man like you're confident like you can do what you say you're going to do you can do hard things you know how to prioritize you know how to spend your time wisely that builds something in you Michaela that is going to be so Priceless and so important throughout other

because there will be other storms in life and this is going to create that well in you that you're going to be able to dig from and pull from and go hey remember when we did XYZ remember when we doubled our income and remember when we just fought like dogs to get our income up remember when we sacrificed everything and we paid off that debt no one can take that from

you and so when you guys sit down and you say okay what are we going to sacrifice what are we going to do are we going to do something with the kids what does that look like am I going to get EX am I going to put this dream I going to defer this dream of whatever the business you have for just a minute so I can make some money to day

it is going to be so so worth it because when you get to the point and you will get to this point Michaela when you can keep the kids home and when you can do some of the things that you want to do it's going to be that much more worth it because you worked and sacrificed and scrapped to get it how much H what's been minimum wage on in h Honolulu right

now $12 I think it's 11 actually 11 what

um there I mean we couldve I worked at a restaurant up until I had my child okay

um here's here's what I'm wondering what

does October 1st through March 1st what is six months what a six months of a family

member a friend someone from your church or even a local daycare center watching your kids six months of you grinding it and hating every day of it but you grind it and then after at March 1st you don't owe anybody any money right and then you are able to sit

with your kids and be fully present without that Dragon hanging over your shoulder and then by that time your husband's moved from his management position where it was just a little bit of a raise to another position on the island somewhere MH and what you're talking about is 6 months and it feels like a hundred years when you're holding a five-month old but when I'm I have a 13-year-old now

and I made some sacrifices when he was young that allow me and him to do some incredible things that never would have happened when me and my wife sat down and she said Are you seriously going back to school and I said I think I have to and I don't know why but I think I have to no idea that there was such thing called a podcast

and YouTube didn't exist right at least in any way that I knew about it and so there's something about saying I'm just G to suck it up for a season for right now so that I can do these other things when you get that money coming in it's going to change your life you get that debt off your shoulder changes your life you you find you find a way to make $20,000

you know you can live off so you're out of debt in a year if you can make this work and hey before you get off the line we're going to give you every dollar that is the budgeting app that we created here at Ramsey Solutions it's the only budgeting app that I use back in 2015 when my husband and I were in the thick of it Ramsey was like here

you go we made every dollar and we made it to make this easier for you and I've never looked back we use that thing it's so helpful it helps you plot your goals it helps you see where you're at and by the way Michaela I'm going to be doing a webinar um on October 10th uh it's at 11:30 Central Time where I'm going to really walk through paycheck to paycheck living how to break that cycle like specifically

the things that you're talking about so I really want you to tune into that webinar um please please please make it a priority and be there it's going to help you it's an hour long it's a lunch break uh and anybody else listening it's open to the public I would love for you guys to sign up for my webinar again 10:10 we're going to be going through

the every dooll app making sure you guys really have a handle on how to use this thing how it's truly going to help youing break that paycheck to paycheck cycle it's so important I'll see you [Music]

[Music]

there [Music]

you are listening to the Ramsay show I am Jade he is John we are taking calls about your life and your money the scripture and quote of the day it says Ecclesiastes Ecclesiastes 49 through1 he

says two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor if either of them falls down one can help the other up but pity anyone who

falls and has no one to help them that's a word right there Then Linda Grayson said this there's nothing better than a friend unless it's a friend with

chocolate look I ain't mad at that I could use a little chocolate right now John if you're my friend hey man you'll find some I would love some chocolate right now we don't have any um you know

I'm looking at the scripture Ecclesiastes it says but pity the one who Falls and has no one to help them and it's kind of funny you and I were talking during the break John we get calls all the time and that I mean that's what you call in right and you're hoping that we can shed a little light on your situation you're hoping that we can say a couple of things that's going to put you on the right track and and and sometimes John folks call in and

they've already got a laundry list prepared of a what they're not going to

do and B why it won't work right and

three what they can't do and what they can't do and here's the thing and I said this to John during the bre I'm just being candid if you call in and you say

oh you know here's the thing I can't I can't earn more um I can't move I can't

uh sacrifice this or that or that what would happen if I just went oh oh okay cool well sucks to be you then what if I

just you would not be okay with that you would go well what kind of show is this you guys are supposed to give me advice you guys are supposed to help me move move forward but here's the deal it only works if you believe it works if we give you a laundry list of things hey you could try this you could do this uh here's what worked for me here's what worked for John and we're giving you real life experience it's not a theory

we didn't just pull something out of our butt and go hey try this you know it might work for you we're telling you - tested uh techniques when it comes to money when it comes to life things that not only worked for people out there that you might not know or have ever heard of but work we're people right here in this studio who are telling you hey uh look

we sacrificed we slept on an air mattress John pulled himself in and out of school he made sacrifices to make it work for his family we're telling you that and you can either take it or you can leave it right you lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink but here's the thing you came here for a drink and we're trying to give you that

and um the belief thing it works either

way right whether you believe something works or you believe it doesn't like that's your choice so the things that we have for you the resources that we have for you you can make it true for you or you can make it false for you you can say hey like I believe this or I don't

and there's a big part of that like you've got to you've got to connect to that and you've got to stop saying I'm the exception to the rule well and there used to be a cultural ethos of we can do

anything yes we can go to the Moon we can we can go liberate Europe we can go

fight this war we can do these things and now our cultural ethos is y'all can't you can't it's too hard too hard someone's got to come get you you you guys have too much pain you just you can't and and Jade I there's too much standing in your way I hear I'm frustrated by that ethos of you can't because I've I've just had the privilege for 20s something years sitting with people who have scratched and clawed and figured it out and it's amazing to watch them and I'm frustrated by by those who

say I'm not going to do that I can't do that I can't I can't drive a Corolla yes you can yes you can I can't I can't just go go to work yes you can I just can't drive in the morning before work and then deliver pizzas at night I yes you can there's always something you can do to better your situation always I don't care if it's just an inch forward

you keep compiling those inches and before you know it you will have moved steps and Bounds and miles further you can and even if you can't move you can you can reach out and say will you help me absolutely will you help me will you help me and there will be an army of people there it's just this but you have to receive the help John right

I know yeah it's it's a culture of disempowerment that is so heartbreaking to me um we have that last caller and I just want to tell her I know you have this vision for your life and that's awesome and I actually think you can get there but you're going to have to stop saying well I can't do that and I can't do that and I can't do that yeah

because you're canting yourself into to a miserable miserable Place yeah and and the thing is we can all we can all look at our lives and find reasons why it won't work right like I could look at myself I could be like well I I I went to high school in a small town um I'm black I'm a female it's harder for women to get ahead um

you know we've got this debt uh we're just musicians musicians you know it's feast and famine you know you're starving artist you can make all of these assumptions about yourself and cause them to be true it's almost like uh it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy like you're in a moment and the moment sucks like let's be honest like sometimes you can be in a moment and it does feel like

the walls are closing in on you but the more you rehearse that in your brain and continue to say it's true and have no vision for the future I say it all the time words matter Berne Brown says whatever you go looking for you're sure to find yes yeah she says that I say it too and I know it came from somebody okay but it's but it's a beautiful thing like

if I go looking for opportunity yes we were talking on on the plane today on the way on the way back from New York when you said you and Sam sat down and said if this is going to actually work we got to start business we have to yes we got to figure it out we're going to start a business then and it's like okay what do

we know how to do we're musicians so let's figure this out and but it's a matter of hey Sheila when we're doing it I'm GNA have to start adjuncting classes and I'm G to have to become a professor on top of my Dena students roles and I'm also going to take this because we got to get out of this mess and she's like I'm going to lose

you and I was like you're going to lose me either way at least this is our path of loss right and you

grind and you grind and you grind and you grind then the Sun comes out it does and but what you said John is really important I don't think people take enough time to look forward and dream people don't take enough time to go they're in the moment and they see where they're at right now and it's like H this is just this is me this is my life

this is how it is and I'm like no let's take a moment and let's zoom out for a moment in 10 years and 15 years where would you like to be taking that time some taking time to just stare out of a

window and think you know what would it be like if what would happen if I had that conversation with my spouse what would happen if we paid off both of our vehicles like what would that feel like taking the time and I challenge anybody today take some time and dream think

about how your life could be better write down a couple of ways write and then write down what must be true because let me tell you something uh John with Sam and I you know for anybody listening for the first time real quick 40 $460,000 of debt coming into our marriage from student loans and cars and everything else and um I knew I wanted not early on did

I know I wanted a family but a little further in I'm like man I want a family this is never going to happen you know like I want to be I had this dream of like I want to be the type of mom who can you know go to the field trips and be there to pick their kid up and you know I just had this very clear vision

and I was so so so so unbelievably far

from that and it broke my heart and I remember saying to my husband I'm like I can't like I can't bring kids into this M like we've got to clean up this mess we will be bringing them into such a mess and there was other things going on as well too and I remember sitting down and just being like okay what's got to be true for anything that we want in life to happen because this right here it ain't it and this is not working and we're so worth more than this and that's

a hard conversation but once you have it it's like okay there's the North Star

let's start reversing reverse engineering this thing backwards what's got to happen first and then honestly

enough people don't sit down with pen and paper and literally write down what has to happen A1 first and if if you don't have a map it's

really hard to what's that what's that old saying if you don't have a map um

you don't know where you're going You're sure to you're sure to get there right you just Meander around yeah if you aim if you aim at nothing you hit it every time that's right so yeah I if you hear

us say anything folks who still listening to this you can you can when

you think you can and it's it's 2 2: a.m. and you're exhausted and you just looked at your credit card balance and you're in bed with somebody

that said I do and yall are so far apart

from each other and your kids don't want to be around you and you think I'm out you can and it's a little bitty step and sometimes it's reaching out and saying I don't know what to do next will you help me please go make that call make that stop and then go get it go get it go do

it look we are normal people all of us

are out here scratching and clawing if John can do it if I can do it I know it sounds cliche but you can surely do it you can tell me you won't do it but do not ever tell me you can't you can do

this all things are possible this is the ramsy

show hey what's up guys it's Jade look if you like what you heard heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps go to ramsy solutions.com and click the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation that's ramsy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 183. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for December 29, 2023)


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[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the Ramsay show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships I am Ramsey personality Rachel Cruz co-hosting this hour with

the wonderful Jade warshaw and my

co-host chair right there and we are taking your calls it's a free call anywhere in the country at 88 25 5225

and again talking about your life and your money so give us a call so first up

this hour we have Laura in Toronto

Canada hey Laura welcome to the show hi

thank you so much I'm so excited to be able to talk to you guys today thank you for having me on yeah absolutely thanks for calling how can we help so I've been

listening to your show Daily for the last few months and I read Total Money Makeover and now I need some advice so

we've always been fairly responsible and Frugal with our money um but since listening to you guys recently I've wanted to start doing more so I've been

selling off a lot of things that we don't need or use anymore kind of like how everybody suggests to sell everything until the kids think they're next um my three-year-old and my

5-year-old are now starting to notice and have started asking more questions about money and what I'm saving for and

where it's going so my question is do

you have any advice on how to talk to kids about money and at what age and is there a way to teach them to respect it without causing any kind of anxiety I

know my girls are still little but I don't want to burden them with adult things like debt and mortgages but I want to try and start them off right

yeah we don't want to talk about like government shutdown and stuff with our 5-year-old yeah yeah yeah um no I think

it's a great question Laura and I think even your intentionality behind it early

on um is huge and then I would say too I

give you props that your kids are picking up on what you're doing because

we always say if you're a parent you know more is caught than taught like your kids are watching so much of what

you're the choices you're making in life

and even your tions around it right they

they pick up so much and so um the fact

that they're seeing change in you Laura I think is amazing because that means you're changing right you're doing something different when it comes to your money and they're seeing that so

Props to you in that regard uh but yeah

I mean I would keep it very age appropriate I think we do find families

that are in a season of sacrifice to

make a financial goal like getting out of debt or having money saved uh to

bring the kids along in that and make it

a family themed idea right that like as

a family we are choosing to do this and it's not just Mom and Dad in isolation doing it and so talking yeah so talking

to them and I think again age appropriately and just saying yeah you know Mom and Dad we don't want money to be a stress point in our life so for us

you know whether it's you're getting out of debt so we don't so we actually when

Mom and Dad make money from work we get to keep it and decide what we want to do with it instead of sending it you know you can even talk to them about payments and like what that looks like yeah what de is and so yeah it's again very age

appropriate but starting those conversations uh I think is is key yeah

Laura I talked since they're so oh sorry go ahead Jade I was gonna say I you know

my my kids they see this show and they

see us talking about money and debt all

day and my son has started asking like

what is debt and so we've talked to him about it I mean we've explained that when you borrow money you have to give it back and here's what that looks like and even um as simple as sometimes I'll

go if I buy something and he just thinks you know you can go to Target and pick whatever you want off the shelf and I'm like no when Mama leaves every day I'm going to earn money and then when we

earn that money we get to decide how to spend it so there's part of it that just

introducing them to the idea that you go

and you work and then this is what you

get for your time and it's not unlimited

right and I think that's been a big one

and then two just um the choices in your

language right because Dr John and I

were talking about this the other day your kids remember things mentally but

their body also remembers how things

felt and so when you're going through a season of getting out of debt if you

guys are feeling anxiety and stress and

oh we got to do this and we got to do it like this and we got to do it now I would challenge you to make the feeling

like oh this is so good for us we're

sacrificing we're going to have freedom we're going to have choices and make it

an exciting thing a thing that feels like liberating empowering and then

their bodies are going to remember that feeling oh man when Mom and Dad took control of their life I mean I've never seen them more confident so I think

there's a lot that can be done with the mood that you're creating um in the

house surrounding getting out of debt and that sort of thing yeah that's good

uh I know I'm reading I'm reading a book right now uh Goff wrote and it's

all about uh anxiety and kids and she

talks about that as a parent if you have anxiety your kids are are seven times

more likely for that so just that I

think that's key are the environment you creates is it is it's huge it impacts

your kids and then the other thing Laura I would also say with your kids so that

that everything we just kind of spoke on was the perspective of you know you as

the parent reacting to your money

situation to your kids but let your kids

feel and experience money on their own

and so having them even at their age you

know they can do a couple of chores here and there ab and pay them and teaching

them especially you're older when you're 5-year-old you know give save and spend

it's like these three basic buckets of money but it's buckets that as adults that's basically what we can do with money we can give it we can save it and spend it and we want do all three and so

you kind of start letting them experience the emotion and the principal

uh H you know habit building ideas

around money themselves even at a young

age so Laura if you hang on the line

Austin's going to pick up and I want to give you financial piece Junior because that's our set of teaching young kids

how to handle money and smart money smart kids it's the first book I wrote

uh with my dad I was a New York Times bestseller because it was it's all about the perspective from the child of growing up in a home where money is

talked about and it's in a perspective that is healthy and obviously dad was

the parent in that and what they did so

um I'm going to give you those Laura because I think this is this is the part

of this show that we talk about changing

your family tree absolutely because there's a generational uh Habit that is built and

what your kids see and what they experience and what they believe about money is passed down to them and you can do it well uh and intentional like you

are or sometimes it's just accidental

and your kids get what they get right and and so I think the intentional routes is really it's important because

money is such a stressful part of life and when your kids can see that healthy perspective it's big so thanks Laura for

the call we appreciate it so Jade what's

been the biggest stuff because your kids are how old two uh three and five so so

you have exactly their age yeah exactly

and my oldest he's just at the point

where it's like oh okay so he does

chores and he gets you know a little bit of money for his chores but still going

into the story he doesn't understand like this only Buys so much so we're

constantly explaining like you only have so much and if you want more you have to

work more and the more you work the more money you have and you can buy things that are more expensive so we're kind of in that phase right now um my youngest

you know she's she's she's not there yet

yeah yeah yeah no no she's not there yet

but yeah yeah I know and it's it's so

funny too to watch your kids and and I

have a 8-year-old and a six-year-old and for sure there are personalities when

comes to it where I'm like I know which way you're going to be bent um and I

just announced today actually I'm I have a kids book coming out in November it's called I'm glad for what I have and it's dedicated to my middle daughter because

it it's all about contentment and it's for younger kids but it's um learning

that contentment piece is huge that it's

okay to have nice stuff yeah but we don't want our nice stuff to have us and

our kids think that the Amazon delivery guy is like part of the family right so I'm like they can get in come whenever he wants yeah they get in this rhythm of like what what stuff is today czy is our

kids don't even see money they don't see cash anymore they don't see even debit cards or credits it's on your phone you're buying online so making that connection for our kids in a real life scenario is so is so key so key so

thanks again Lura for the call and we'll be [Music]

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welcome back to the ramsy show I am

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with

Ramsey personality Jade warshaw and if

you guys enjoy the show it's so helpful

if you share the show subscribe to the

show leave a review all of those things

really help in the algorithm of the

world of podcast and YouTube and all of it uh because we want the show in front of as many people as possible because we want to be able to help them when it comes to their life and their money so

it's always helpful when you guys do that we know you do it because we see uh

the response and the numbers and all of it so we're so grateful for that and again trying to get trying to get this

country under control Jade I know that's right one show at a time show at a time

one episode at a time all right up next

we have philli in Birmingham hey Phillip

welcome to the show hey guys thanks for having me on

absolutely how can we help so I got maybe more of a two-part

question um I'll start with the with the

first part so I've been listening pretty

intently for the past week uh I did

financial piece when me and my wife first got married six years ago um and

haven't really followed it as close probably should have uh we currently

have $133,000 in unhealthy debt that we

own on a car and we have 135 wait wait

wait wait wait wait when you say unhealthy debt what do you mean by that

and tell me what the healthy debt

is uh the only reason I say that is I'm

I'm just putting my mind in the right perspective that I want to get rid of all all of our dead Okay so there so you

do know there's not really like healthy

debt per se

absolutely but plenty of people would say it's completely necessary to get a car yes and that that's fine and I I

don't want to I don't want to go with a grain on that okay good so I'm trying to

allow myself emotionally to catch up to

uh lifestyle changes that me and wife are stared make over the past like few weeks and the first start is just

mentally saying okay we're gonna have

we're gonna have a little bit of a a verbal battle with what the world

typically tells people her and me

changing your language J I like it you're not getting

anything past Jade Philip so watch out

$13,000 in debt um which is unhealthy as

it all is so what else you got correct

um and then and then our mortgage which

we owe 135k we got that three years ago

um thankfully before things got really

crazy but still we owe 135k on that um

aside from that we have we have zero

debt zero medical bills zero student loans so we're okay on that side

but we still want to get ahe the curb

and that's the first part of just saying

hey this is this is everything we have going on right now and the second part

of my question was I I do want to get

rid of the debt we have in our car but I

also haven't invested nearly as much

into our retirement as I want to I

currently invest into a Roth IRA and um

my question was should I keep hitting

like should I maximize as much much I can to my Roth IRA and still try to pay

extra on the car or should I put that on hold knock out the car first and then

hit uh my rothar and mutual funds Heavy

after that yeah um I see the benefit of

both sides I just I don't want to I'm

already I'm I'm be 31 yeah I think

you're I think you're freaking out and I I think you're freaking out and I don't think you need to freak out as as bad as

you are I like that you're on top of this I like that you're looking at um the future and you're going all right what do I need to do to make sure that we're set up in the best possible way um

but you know you're you're not new to our teaching so you know we walk through a series of baby steps and so what do

you think that I'm going to say uh we need to get rid of our our car

loan ding ding ding yeah and do you know

why though the do you know kind of the principle behind that sure so what is it

you're te you're you're teach you're the teacher right now because I think you know this uh I do it just helps having a

third party who's unbiased kind

of I'm not unbiased I'm not unbiased but

so Philip I think I think the I think what you can get in your head because

you sounds we always say there's like either the nerd or the free spirit are you probably the nerd I'm going to

assume uh a little bit yeah a little bit

okay yeah yeah I thought I was right uh you know you're running numbers and calculations and all of this and you're seeing Oh my gosh you know my WTH and my

retirement all of it and and I understand that I really really do and

again what you said at the beginning of the call is we're going against the grain and what the grain would say is yeah go ahead you fund retirement you do uh that

you try to you know keep up with your credit card balance and your you know

you can pay a little bit on your car some on your H you know you just spread everything around and you kind of just

get mediocre right mediocrity is what

the result ends up being uh because

there's not intentional focus on one

thing and so the great thing for you Phillip is that you're 31 and so

retirement if you hold off a few years

because how much do you guys make a year how much do you and your wife make U anywhere between 55 and 60k okay

yeah so you guys will have yeah some

time to pay off this car and maybe it's

you know maybe it's uh you take an extra job you guys are cutting stuff you're selling stuff uh you do all of that you

know maybe it's a maybe it's an 18mon

turnaround right 12 months it's a year

okay that's not going to be detrimental to your retirement it's really not I mean overall because you're going to be able to invest more money if you think about just even if you took that car payment and added that to your WTH on

top of what you would have done right like I mean it just it starts to compound and that's the great thing is

that you're going to catch up and and here's the deal too Philip if you were 61 Our advice would be the same

regardless and so so where you are is in

a great spot you are in a you're in a

healthy spot you see the problem attack that car get it out of here and then that's going to free you guys up to use some s have some Savings in an emergency fund do you all have any money saved

right now

uh just our emergency fund uh we had

some medical bills we had a daughter this year and I was paying the taxes from R over my 4on can to a Roth IR okay

and um after after my wife being I'm

maternity leave which we planed to head for that but it kind of puts us back to just having an emergency fund but we

have around $3,000 in savings right now

okay um that's that's all we have at the

moment okay that's great um and I would

be curious you don't need to sell the car because I think you guys can pay this off but even if you wanted to run the numbers for fun Philip I mean there's some people that call the show and they're like I want out of debt tomorrow like I like get me out and they would take a hit on the car take a smaller loan you know get a be I mean

they'll go through that process you don't need to the math is is on your side in that in that regard yeah um

you're not in that urgent of a state but I would say yeah run some numbers while y'all are kind of going against the grain just keep pushing at it yeah I think you'd be surprised how quickly that you'll pay off this 13k um if you

get intense I think it'll go by way

faster than you thought that's encouraging yeah yep

absolutely well thanks for calling Phillip I appreciate and good luck to you guys and congrats on the on the new

addition most definitely the new baby

yeah this is I feel like one of the

things that is a it's kind of a myth in

the personal finance space is that you can do 18 things at once yeah and the

secret is if there is a secret is

especially early on when you're getting out of debt and you're wanting to save a chunk of money in an emergency fund when you are focused and you point everything

at one thing and you spend time on it

even if it takes a year if it takes 18 months 24 months the progress you see in

that is where the idea that personal finan is 80% Behavior it's only 20% head

knowledge comes into play like when you start to win and you start to see

progress not like teeny teeny things

here and there and random things like big steps big progress in one area like

paying off debt it it's it's motivating

well yeah because if if you don't Focus

right let's say you've got $500 extra dollars at the end of the month and you're like I'm going to start paying off debt and each debt gets $50 like you

never see the needle move and before you

know you're like this is not working and you just lose your motivation and you go back to your old habits but when you suddenly take that $500 and you throw it

at a credit card bill that's 2,000 and

you're done Y in four months you're like

wait a second like I can keep going I can do this forever and so there's definitely something to be said for Focus intensity turning it you know

turning the light into a laser beam and you're burning through uh that debt so I

mean that's that's the way to do it that's the way that works yep absolutely absolutely and then again the the idea

that people get caught up just like he did Philip it's such a that's such a normal mindset of freaking out about retirement because we do see these charts of compound interest that if you started at 18 you know what you what you would be all of it which is all great and it's true yeah time is your friend

but yes but getting things in order and

having a peaceful Foundation under you

financially before you start going and

looking far in the future it's it changes everything it changes it changes the emotion around money it really does so thanks again Philip for the call this

is the ramsy [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsay show so Jade

I'm so excited I think it's in two weekends from now yes October 19th

through the 21st our money and marriage

event is happening here at the Ramy

event center right up the hill if you're here uh and it's going to be a multi-day

event over the weekend Dr John Zone and

I are kind of heading it up and we're

really diving into these topics of money

and marriage for a full weekend and Jade

you're going to be here too I am I'm so excited but we were just talking about how this is very different than some of the other events that we've done in a

very good way yes so yeah it's a lot of

um really I think like a just a point of

connection we want to have uh with the

audience because it's couples that are going to be there and again it's these

two subjects that can be really difficult to talk about at times and so

we it's just it's it's going to be very casual yes it's going to be really fun

we want to give you the tools to be able to cast a vision maybe challenge you in

some areas uh to be able to walk away

but there's um some fun guests John and

I uh we doing a panel actually my

husband Winston's gonna be there and

John's wife Sheila which this is a big deal this this never happens the spouses never end up coming but we ROP them and

Jade you're going to be there for your session with Sam Sam's gonna be there too yeah your husband so yeah it's going

to be a hangout we have evening things pln for you guys so it's going to be really fun so our VIP and platinum tickets are already sold out so there's a few more just general emission so if

you want to go go to Ramsey

solutions.com events it's

$799 a couple and yes we want you out of

debt of course we want you on baby steps four five or six but I'm saying for two people at $7.99 yeah for two yep so

again multi-day event and it's going to

be really fun here in Nashville so get some time away from the kids get away

from your normal life come hang out in Nashville with us money and marriage October 19th through the 21st again go

to Ramsey solutions.com events uh to join us love it all right

up next we have Sean in Louisville hey

Shan welcome to the

show hi Jade hi Rachel thank you so much

for taking my call absolutely how can we

help well um so my wife and I are on

baby steps for five six and we found out

that uh we are going to have our second

child um some around June

congratulations thank you so so my my

question is what your all thoughts are

on um pausing um pausing four five and six to

uh to save up for for the

baby okay so you guys I'm just

clarifying you have no debt how much savings do you have in your emergency

fund uh 11 or 12,000 okay that's great

how much how much do you need for the baby like what's your deductible going to be um excuse me um it uh I've looked

through so many numbers actually trying to figure out what plan we're going on

next year um so like out of pocket I

think would be like 7,000 okay

um and you're investing 15% right

now right I would probably pause the

other two I would keep investing I wouldn't stop investing I think still investing your 15% but if you guys want

to kind of like pull back from paying off the you know if you're putting ex sh towards the house or something and you want to pull back and save up what that's going to be uh I think that's that's a good rule of thumb because we always do tell people to pause the debt

snowball if you're getting out of debt

uh to pause that and pile up cash if

you're expecting a baby uh but besides that seaa I mean I would I wouldn't

retirement how much you guys make a

year uh 70k okay have you run out the

numbers um what that would look like

without pausing and where how much are you able to save by June if you if you weren't pausing so if

we just stopped five and six um we're

able to save up like 450 a month but it

doesn't uh it still doesn't quite get us

to the to that 7,000 Mark I think that's

where the um where the concern

is what does it get you

to do the mouth real quick it's I want

to say like I want to say like

5,000 maybe what I would do um I honestly I'll

be honest I wouldn't pause

retirement for that I would and then as

the bills come in I'd pay the bills as they come in

and you might be surprised because I'm

thinking I'm trying to think back through this Rachel of when I had babies

and some of the stuff came in right away

some of it I prepaid and most of it's at

the end most at the end and they start rolling in but it's not like it's not like in one day you have to write a check for $7,000 right so MH I'd

probably just cash flow it cash flow the bills as they come in and Sean if you guys get to the get to the end of it and you need $1,000 from your emergency funds then it's not the end of the world yeah grab the th000 you have saved there

keep funding retirement put your $ th000

you know back into the emergency fund refill it and you guys just keep going but I I would hate for you to lose um Steam on that now if you were

telling me that you needed $177,000 or something yeah then we can

talk about it but the fact that you guys are so close to be able to cash flow it and the bigger thing too here is is I wouldn't want to for me it's a habit

forming thing I wouldn't want to build the habit of when we need to do something we stop retirement does that

make sense even though this is very important I think there's something to be said for that resourcefulness okay how can we make this work because going forward there are going to be things that you need to do not just want to do

but need to do that are going to be you

know very expensive and I don't want to

build the thought of well we could pause retirement for a little while to make it happen does that make sense that's kind of where my mind is going on

and if it were If This Were the conversation going on in my house with Sam that's the that's the argument that

I would bring up I'd be like well Sam you know I think that we can do this without building that habit so yep absolutely so y we'd cash flow it dip into the emergency fund at the end if you need to uh but like Jade said I

think you'll be surprised I think you guys will be able to get through this so thanks for the call up next we have Blake in Salt Lake City Utah hey Blake

welcome to the show hey thanks so much

for having me absolutely how can we

help so I am 23 years old I'm a flooring

contractor married with a 2-year-old son

and we have racked up about 30 well we

racked up $33,000 worth of debt and I've

paid about 3,000 of it off um we're

looking at like looking at my note here $2,200 left

in credit cards um $122,000 on a truck

for my job and

$117,000 on a car for my wife and I want

to plan go to school here in the next

two or three years for an associates degree in uh mechatronic

engineering and I just want to know how

I can best tackle this debt and actually

start saving and putting stuff away yeah

so I can cash flow that school I don't want to go into debt for an associates degree and I love that kind of just lost

yeah no totally uh how much are you

making right now um I make about 70,000

a year gross that's great what about

your wife um she is not working she is uh

just at home with our our boy okay good

um so my first thought is there's always

the the idea that you've got to increase your income the faster you want to pay off the debt obviously the more income coming in is going to be helpful for that so my mind immediately goes to is

there anything that you can do to increase your income and is there anything that your wife can do to get some income coming in cuz when it comes

to paying off debt ,000 extra dollars a

month does a world of difference $2,000

extra a month does a world of difference so that's my first question to you I know she's staying home uh with a young one but is there something that she could do um while she's at

home um she's a before um we had our son

she actually got certified as a child birth Dua uhuh um so that she did that

for a while first married and you know

every once in a while she's brought in you know a couple thousand bucks here and there she just is so anxious about

like spending time away from her from

our boy just because she didn't have a dad growing up

and I totally yeah I hear that and I

would say for a season not a pattern

over life but for a season maybe that's something you guys look into and then also Blake she you guys have almost $30,000 in car debt oh yeah I would look

at the $177,000 car and see how much

it's worth if you guys could sell that I

mean that that knocks down your debt

significantly even if you're upside down

yeah yeah taking smaller loan and then I

mean that gets you guys far ahead so Blake honestly for me I would look I would look at the cars to get a jump start on that so thanks for the

[Music]

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Ramsey welcome back to the ramsy show I

am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with

Ramsey personal warshaw we're taking your calls it's a

free call anywhere in the country at

8825 5225 up next we have Jay in

Orlando hey Jay welcome to the show hey

girls how you guys doing doing well how

are you awesome awesome I just uh jump

right into my question here yes um I've

got a pay for house it's worth about

300,000 uh but we have about

150,000 in uh student loans and car or

car debt so I'm wondering is it wise to

sell that home pay off every single

penny of debt uh rent for maybe a year

or two and then um and then uh buy

another home down the road what's your

income I'm working right now myself my

wife is finishing uh PTA School uh

she'll be starting in probably April or

May so right now we're at about 65 ,000

a year and what will she be making when

she starts uh she'll be probably around the

same 65 70 somewhere in that range okay

so you've got the student loans and can you break down the student loans versus the cars yeah we've got about 110 in student

loans okay and then uh about 30 for the

car and the rest in credit cards and a

stupid refrigerator oh gosh so about

10,000 yes okay uh 20,000 um so this car

what you owe 30,000 on it what's it

worth uh we're we're upside down

probably about seven Grand so it's probably worth about 22 or 23 right now

is that private sale private sale yes well if it were me

I'd probably be trying to get out of it um I'd probably take the $7,000 hit and

to to owe less um to knock this debt

down significantly um I'll be honest with you I wouldn't sell the house I just

wouldn't it's such an amazing asset it's

going up in value if you were to get out of it now my guess is your interest rate now is far better than it would be in

the next year or so if you were to save up and try to buy it's like I almost feel like you'd be going backwards to try to go forward when right now literally you can just go forward yeah and Jade and your wife when

is she going to start work when did you say she graduates uh she graduates in December

she's taking her board in April so

she'll probably uh be working like the

end of April early May next year okay

okay so you still you guys have about six months to that so I mean honestly your life changes dramatically Jay once

she starts working so you guys I mean

it'll take you guys you know a few years to do this but I would rather spend a few years getting out of this Consumer Debt than taking a hit on an asset like

a home like I just don't think um

selling it and here's another thing Jay that I always caution people not that it's always and you can go do what you want and some people they want to sell their house they want out of debt they want to do it but but here's the problem

too when you get a lump sum of money

this is even true with an inheritance or you know if you had an insurance claim and you you know got some cash a big

sweep of just getting some cash just to

clear out the debt yes that's great because we want you debt-free but also

there is something about Behavior change

that is so crucial and behavior change

is caused when you feel a level of pain

you feel a level of sacrifice and you actually win like when you go through that Journey that's what changes you Jay

and so not that you know if you get a bunch of money we want you to pay it off right I'm not saying not to do it but

also in the same time it doesn't always

change Jay it doesn't always change you it doesn't change your wife when you just can you know just do this full sweep so you know Rachel I think I am going to say not to do it not to sell

the house no we D yeah I think we're

gonna like yeah don't sell the house

make yourself go through this process you guys need to do it and and you're going to get a jump start on this process in six months like these next six months you're going to feel it Christmas J is not going to look like Christmas last year like you're going to be cutting back on things and that's okay for a season and then when your wife starts working that's going to be gasoline on this and like Jade said and

if you if you sell the car you know then

that brings you guys back down to what

120 125 I mean you know you're just

starting to knock this stuff out and so

and you've got okay so they've got the 20 the 20,000 in credit cards and

refrigerator loans that to me like

that's that's the kind of debt that keeps you motiv at because it's like $2,000 here and a th000 like those are

the quick wins that you start to go oh

oh yeah we can do this so the way I'll

just say the way your debt is set up it's the kind that's like yes like we can really see this traction we can see

the movement forward so yeah do not sell

that house walk through it yep absolutely does that help Jay yes that absolutely helps thank you

so much I appreciate that absolutely and

remember always you guys and those of you listening or watching that you know

the the Deep you sacrifice and the

deeper you say we're not going on a

summer trip next summer we're not doing

Christmas like we like you just have a season where things are cut back and it's not forever it's not forever it's for a season to get this progress to get

this debt paid off and then Jay you guys are s what's crazy to me is I'm like you

know after this journey of maybe what two years three years doing this yeah

you guys are going to be sitting in a paid for home with M you know you guys

are going to be making I mean oh my gosh oh yeah a lot yeah yeah 1:30 I mean like

it's it it it's powerful to know what

your income is going to be able to do

when all this debt is cleaned up so the future is there we see it we see not to mention so many people Rachel right now are like this housing market is so hard

with interest rates and everything it's so hard to save enough down payment I'm

like if you can avoid that because you already have property I would not want

to jump into that if I didn't have to nope nope not at all all right Jay thanks for the call up next we got Jen in Sacramento hey Jen welcome to the

show hi Rachel and Jay thank you so much for taking my call absolutely how can we

help yes so um I'm wondering if I should

change jobs uh while pregnant or stay at

my current job which is far away okay um

my husband and I are currently on baby step number two and we just found out

that we're expecting our second child next June oh

congratulations thank you yeah so we

both work a hybrid schedule we're two and a half hours away and it pays more

um stays with his family two nights out

of the week just to stay close to work and I go in twice a week which is a 5our

commute each day we almost a year yeah

we've been doing this for almost a year now and so now that we're expecting our

second child this is just kind of on my

mind what are you guys earning at this job to make it worth it or is it not

worth it it is worth it so he works

actually two jobs he works at a hospital and admin and he also got a side hustle

as a adun professor uhhuh um my job I've

been getting a raise since I started but it doesn't pay as I mean it pays pretty

decent what is it I'm in a an administrative

coordinator yeah but what are you guys earning healthare oh so our total take

home income a month is

15,200 okay um and we have $100,000 in

stud of loans um a car loan balance of

7900 we have a mortgage with 377k left

um and then we also have a loan for a solar panel which is about

23

okay so I don't know if I I want to work

part-time but that would like cut into like our goal of like trying to pay off debt um and also work like closer

considering like a change in career like maybe a preschool teacher but I don't

know I definitely think that the 2 and 1

half hours is not sustainable like you can't continue to do that especially

with the kids coming um that being said

I do think you need to find a happy median because going from 15,000 a month

when you have this debt down to

preschool teacher sell you know what I mean that's a big jump down so I think

that there's got to be a way that you can meet in the middle um in order to

make this happen um and kind of do it

gradually to where you're still having a nice shovel to pay off this debt because the hard thing to walk away from is such

a high income when you do have that debt and with that income you could knock it

yeah 100 Grand in student loans right I

mean and that's I'm sure for was it for you and your husband yeah majority of it's mine

yeah and okay you know like don't get me

wrong you're pregnant there's some things that go into that obviously once you have a baby but I try to ride this

out until as long as you can until

you've got to make that switch because when the baby's born for sure you're going to have to make that switch and you should start preparing now yeah and if you're 6 months pregnant and you don't want to be sitting in a car for 5 hours EX that's very understandable Jen so so looking at yeah how how long you

can do that and when you switch jobs

though insurance is Big so you want to

make sure your insurance is covered because with the pregnancy and everything make sure you don't miss that

because it may be worth it just stay in just for the insurance to make sure you and baby are good so make sure to cover

that J but yeah this is the hard thing with debt you have it and it's like oh

my gosh we have to pay this off and some sacrifices have to be made so congrats though on the new baby Jin uh and thanks

for the call all right that puts the

sour in the book thank you Jay for being a great co-host thanks to all the guys

in the booth for helping us out this is

the Ramsey

Show hey it's Rachel Cruz if you love

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live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships I am Ramsey personality

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with the

wonderful and the fabulous Ramsey personality Jade warshaw we are here to

answer your calls America and it is a

free call anywhere in the country at

8825 5225 so make sure uh yeah give us a call

let us know what's your what your thinking what your questions are and we'd love to walk through your situations with you that's what we're

here for so up first we have Taylor in

Nashville here in our home City

Nashville Taylor welcome to the show

hi thank you for having me absolutely

how can we help um so well I just actually am

calling for my boyfriend um unfortunately he had gotten caught up into some things that had landed him in

jail for about two years unexpectedly oh

okay um he is home now um and during

that time his mother was able to keep

his car payment and his mortgage paid um

but of course wasn't able to also take

care of his like personal loan debt and

credit card debt of course you know he's

very thankful that she was even able to do that sure um and now that he you know

he is home he is on like a you know

probation parole type thing um where

really selling his house is not an

option um even though he does have quite a bit of equity because then he would be

homeless and being on supervision you

have to have an address of course right

um and his credit score is you know in

like upper mid 400s right now just

because all of that credit card debt and personal loan debt is now in collections

and has been for you know about a year

and a half now and how much debt is it total um in collections total it's about

30,000 uhhuh and then he owes about 133

on his house uhuh 133,000 on his house

and his car he owes about what it's

worth which is about 13,000 and is he working is has he been

able to find any work coming out of jail

yes um we were he's making about $15 an

hour right now I have gotten him you

know like an every dollar budget kind of

laid out so as far as like that goes you

know obviously he's slowly trying to

work up that baby step one yeah um but

just having all of it in collections

it's just hard to find really any information on you know like if that

settlement might be an or bankruptcy or

if we should you know contact them directly it's just really hard to kind of find any advice really yeah is it mostly credit cards in the collections or personal loans or what um credit

cards and then there is one personal loan okay how much is the credit cards

credit cards is about 20,000 okay and are those

separate cards how many um about three or four and then I

think there's like yeah about three or four and are those all from different banks and yeah everything okay if it

were me I would start with those like

once he's got the Thousand saved because he really does need that I'd start with the collections first obviously and I

would like let's just say he's got one credit card in collections that's $2,000

I'd stack up $600 or $700 and I'd say

this is what I have can we make a deal

and they're going to make it if it's in collections they're going to make a deal with you the key there is making sure you get every deal in writing before you

pay them the money right and you're

you're not giving them access to your account you're saying okay I'll write you a check or I'll do it online whatever that is um and you're keeping

that record forever and I would literally go down the list of those

credit cards and I'd settle them for as low as I possibly could make sure you have the cash ready because you know you

can't just call and say what would happen if I did this they're going to be

like no we want your money but if you say look I and honestly in this case I'd

shoot straight I'd be like look I just got out of prison this is what I have I got $500 and if you don't take this you're not getting anything from me so

take it or leave it and Taylor usually with these collection situations they're

passed and then they're sold to another collection agency and then another I mean this could be the third time handed down you know one of these credit card debts so just just know the the the

system that you're working under and it's and the you know people aren't in

these jobs forever they're sitting in a cube somewhere I mean like it's just it's just a it's just a nasty industry

it really is and so uh getting yes

someone and I think the key here is what you're saying is you need to pull up his credit reports you need guys need to find exactly that okay good where the

debt is what it is and then try to find

that yes Whoever has that um that bill

and collections calling the collections agency and Jade is exactly right majority of the time they will settle with you and if you have that cash say I can send this to you now and they may want to negotiate a little bit so kind of play the game but if but when they

say okay fine we'll take the

$721 say okay great I need you to mail

me um you know with a letter like give

me an official letter of agreement

and once I receive that I will I will send the money and so you guys just kind of work work that through and then for

his car um I don't know I feel like this

is the sell the car show so far today

but honestly I'm like it's $133,000 and

um and I know he needs a car for work so

if the payments are not overwhelming him

but where he's at again you want these

debts knocked out but simultaneously if

there was any other way do you know what

the payment is uh 444 W who W that is

kind of high yes um whenever he got it

he had just started building his credit

so his interest rate was high yeah um

and you know and now we it's unfortunate because he does have about with the he

bought his house right before the market kind of went crazy um so if he was to

refinance you know he'd have about 100K

in equity in his house um so it is kind

of unfortunate it's just hard to you

know he can't be homeless what is his is

well okay selling his house doesn't make

him homeless because he can rent right

so what is his mortgage payment having

like this felony record um finding

somewhere tuent um is a real big issue in the area

that he's in I here well what's his

mortgage and are you helping him with his mortgage because $15 an hour not his

boyfriend or his mom lives with him currently because she just um had to

move out of her house or her apartment

so she's living with him helping him but the mortgage is about 1100 a month yeah

that's okay um

okay

I this is his situation not yours um oh

yeah 100% I'm just trying to I'm a you

know working my own baby step yeah I'm

just trying to advise him the best I can

because um I'll be honest theage and

stuff on it the mortgage and house thing does scare me making $15 an hour and

having to kind of depend on whoever is

able to live with him at the moment um that might be a problem for down the line

um yeah if I were talk yeah we good well

part of me would get out of that because it's just debt that

he tayl you're nervous that he's not going to be able to find a place to rent because of his felony record is that correct but I feel like you could do the

I feel like if you it's not like to say that hey sell the house and then look for a place but maybe you can start doing the research on the front end and

just keep keep bringing it up

you know 12 months a manager of an apartment

complex will work with him cuz Jade's

right there's a lot on here um and where

he is you know just in life uh it's just

a lot so Taylor the places that he can

take off that weight so whether it's selling the car the housing situation is

big and as Jade you know pondering all

that like it's true it's it's a big piece of this puzzle um but I would

start with that Collections and you guys work on that and Taylor you're very supportive very so thanks for all that you're doing in his life that's huge this is the ramsy

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more

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade

warshaw fellow Ramsey personality and

taking your calls so Jade I feel like in

life there's these moments in your life

that you look back and you're like oh yeah that changed everything right uh I

think about like September 11th and the

way you go through airports changed everything right so different moments and so one of those moments in history

for us will forever be Co yes that it

changed everything is what it feels like

and it changed the way that we do life

the way that we shop what we expect the

convenience element suddenly you don't

have to go on target you can just pull right up and oh man they bring the bags

out to you so some of that's good all

these new features yes uh but but

Americans uh they have not slowed down

when it comes to their online purchases

so whether it's Amazon or door Dash uh

these things are more popular than ever we got used to things being dropped right at our door comfy cozy and there

was an interesting article from USA Today that's right it says prices are up

it says although the pandemic has eased

Americans seem to be spending more than ever for the convenience of having

groceries meals and household wears

delivered directly to their doors the

average delivery service customer is

spending this is crazy around

$47 a month in 2023 that's up $157 from

2021 my gosh it doubled in two years

that's what help me understand Rachel

because I'm like wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute on the one side all

you hear is inflation interest rates I

can't do anything I can't student loans

and everybody's like their life is

imploding but somehow they're still able

to Door Dash you know that sub sandwich

and I'm like how McDonald's yeah that

that's the funniest thing like McDonald's some somehow you still are

eating McDonald's in bed that they've delivered to you even though cost probably more than your McDonald's meal oh come on let's talk about that it says in the lining tree survey 82% of

customers or consumers said they used

OnDemand delivery over the past year by

and large the survey found that consumers chose delivery out of what

convenience always Comfort which I get

that's okay I want okay so I want to know from you what you and Sam your

household because I'll tell I I'll go first here's what we you go first Rachel

before Co I went to the grocery store

all the time yeah and did it y'all

during covid and now after I still have my instacart subscription and it is the

most convenient wonderful thing it is so

for me it is convenient the grocery

delivery and the best one is it has Costco so I don't true that and I still

will randomly go into Costco because I'm like there's still some stuff that I may miss but to have Costco delivered to to

my door look I I do I pay the extra fee

and I pay the subscription well your delivery fee technically is taken care of if you have the subscription and then

I tip on top of that so it is more and

they do kind of mess with the prices I think so like overall I oh they 100% do

I know I'm spending more I know I am like instacart tells you but to be a mom

and not have to take three kids in the grocery store and I come home and like

it's there I don't know and Donna

delivered it and I'm like Donna thank you you made my day Donna so much better

so that is that that's my it's my guilty

PL it's my it's where I spend Jade I

don't do food delivery I don't do to eat

unless it's like pizza delivery or something but other than that I don't do

yeah like Pizza Del delivery I don't feel like that falls into this category because they've always delivered like that's always been the thing okay do you not do your you do I'm going to be honest um Co didn't make me do the

grocery delivery thing like I enjoy

going to the grocery store it I prefer

not going with my kids but I like to go

I like to browse the aisles what made me

start switching to grocery deliveries I kind of live out far from the stores

that I like and now I work outside the

home and I didn't do that before and so

those two things so my point is whatever

the convenience is cuz for some people

they got in the comfort level after covid other people you know they're

their life changed and it's like hey now this is I'm not going to call it a necessity but it does make your life easier yeah for sure but here Honestly

by and large here's the real thing if you can afford it I'm not mad at you

sure but if you can't afford it like if

you're like yeah door Dash on my credit

card bad idea like that's the worst idea

ever cuz you've got the look if you're

putting door Dash on your credit card can we just run this number down real quickly Rachel oh man do an interest

rate of like 22% on the card oh God 22%

added pain and regret then you add your

nachos on top of that then you add the

tip for Chad on top of that and then the delivery fee the delivery fee yes yeahoo

it better be worth it those nachos better go down smooth and easy cuz

here's the thing they're going to leave

later they're leaving it's not even

worth it only for a moment you're literally flushing money down the toilet that's all I got to say about that for a moment I know I know okay and then the

other one that hurts me on this two Jade is Amazon oh gosh Amazon I'm an offender

I'm gonna go ahead and say I'm a I'm a repeat offender and here's the danger

with Amazon is everything start to feel

like a need where I'm like oh um I'm

trying to think like um my kid's little

power wheels battery died and I just got

one yes yep and you're like we'll just we'll just Amazon it we'll Amazon it we and it's this like convenience of life

where before I'm like something stupid

like a light bulb would burn out I'm like oh next time I go to the store I'll fix it may be like you know it might be months a week yeah weeks months later

cuz back in the not with Amazon it's going to be there in two days and it's yeah that money is being spent so that is so true it is it it it does mess I

think with our needs versus wants things can start to feel like that so again

convenience is not bad and and in my season of life that is where I would tend to put some of my margin yeah is

towards the conveniences because it just

makes life easier with three little kids all the things and people were were scattered everywhere um but also I will

uh I will Echo what you're saying it

definitely your thinking yeah and if

you're in baby steps especially one through three you guys it adds up it

adds up and we are sitting here admitting it adds up and we pay for it

and we do it and we know it we kind of

swallow that pill and go but if you are

looking to cut back these are great

places great places to cut back delete

the amazom app you got to delete the app thank you Rachel that's what I was getting to if you're in baby step one or three you cannot have it on your phone you got to delete the app door Dash uh

Amazon what's another one definitely I

think about all just all the subscriptions Uber Eats Uber Eats

instacart instacart in I know sorry

instacart you just can't let it tempt

you it's like because it it adds up

right and I think I would be sick to my stomach if I went and grocery shopped with my exact list and went in the store and just bought versus probably what

what I pay for with the added up I mean like it is it's a it's a difference so

if you're looking for margin if you're looking for margin these are great places to cut but again majority of

Americans are not cutting them the average Millennial is spending

$575 a month on onDemand delivery well

you know some the past year some of the

deliveries um let's talk about this part

of it Rachel because some of the you can

kind of meet it in the middle right like you can do like Kroger clicklist and

have them you know the drive up yes

which is actually great because you can see the total yes and stick within your budget that that is a good one you know

where you know you order you order them online and then you go pick it up that way you're not wandering through you know you're still saving time on that um

also now not not if you're in baby step 2 but if you are ordering food like how easy I

mean again there's cooking dinner at

home which is like oh man and then there's I'm going to order it and go at least pick it up can you just put the

key in the ignition can you throw some sweatpants on and go choosing a delivery

choosing delivery over a trip to the store triggers delivery fees service fees and tips together they make up to

36% of food delivery costs wow so it's a

lot you're making bank adding you're adding a lot and then SE charges on top

of that so wow INF yeah y'all if if

you're looking for margin we are used to the life of convenience since Co but I

would say Nix it for a season get that

cash back that's right get that margin

back and it is it will give you more

peace of mind because we all need some

peace Jade because we are a we are a

world of a ball of anxiety and our we

are the levels of anxiety are up you

guys sadly the depr question is right there with it and thankfully we have Dr John deloney on our team who gives us

truth when it comes to this subject and he has a brand new book out called building a non-anxious life it's available now and you guys listen it is

this is such an important to important topic to talk about your your mental

health and taking care of who you are as

a person overall don't neglect that like

step into that and learn and if this is

something that you're interested in or

have questions on or feel like oh my gosh I just need a guide in this whole

area of my life order John's book order

John's book go to Ramy solutions.com

order John's new book building a

non-anxious life you will not regret it

this is the ramsy

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show [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsay show I am

Rachel Cruz hosting with Jade warshaw

and we're here taking your calls it's a free call anywhere in the country at

8825 5225 here to talk about your life

and your money all right up next we have

Jonathan in Minneapolis hey Jonathan

welcome to the show hi thank you for taking my call how

are you this afternoon absolutely we are doing great Jonathan how are you doing

I'm doing very well so um my parents are

a few years away from retirement uh my wife my parents and I

are thinking about selling both of our

houses and combining living situations

into one larger

house um it would involve temporarily uh

at least temporarily um increasing the balance of

my mortgage in order to make that

transition and I I've got more details

if you want to go through those but uh that's quick overview what's the purpose

of combining

homes um so my parents will likely in

the next few years have some medical situations that would make them not able

to take care of a house long term um and so basically the house that

we're looking at would be essentially a

basement apartment the size of about their current house um and then we would be able to

help take care of them they would be able to grow up around their grandkids

and everybody's on board with the

situation in principle um I think

we there's some question on would this

be able to work in the short term versus

trying to make that or trying to wait a few more years what would

happen whose name would be on the deed

it would be mine or my wife and

I and so can I just can I just jump in

okay I I just feel like Jonathan this this always presents um both before a step like this

this situation sounds

always usually better than the outcome

of what occurs you and your wife do you

guys have kids we do two two kids okay

and how old are you guys uh we're both 32 we have a two kids

under three okay awesome so um very

heroic Noble um the honor and respect

right that you're giving your parents of hey we want to help take care of you like all of that is good um but the

Tactical side of combining living

situations you and your wife now your

unit as a family is disrupted right even

though they're downstairs and all of that like they're the the amount of um

tension and autonomy that will not be

there for your family units is very high

it's very high and so while some situations work we're in-laws and

families live together and maybe that's what you guys still choose to do and all of it I just want to be the friend that doesn't know you to caution you Jonathan

that that that everything you're saying

is so Noble and good and I'm just wondering is there another path that

those things can still happen that your

parents are still taken care of they still see the grandkids all of those um

dreams and wants and desires are still

fulfilled without having to live under

the same roof as your

parents true so pivoting away from a

little bit of the noble side of it um

the what would be in it for um for my

wife and I would be um

that my parents and they're totally on

board with this we've been very transparent with them but um my parents

would help us basically to afford more

house than we would on our own currently

have see and that but that's the part that I would avoid at all costs because

do you want to be a like if something

were to happen like what Rachel said say you get into this and you're like you know what this is not as harmonious as we once thought it was going to be now you're on the hook for a home that you can't afford on your own so there's part

of this that it's a little bit of a risk

there's a big risk there so I would say

if you were going to go ahead and do this I wouldn't get into a home that you

could not afford on your own because and

I because then you're kind of chained to

this deal both of you you are and then

your parents are going to feel bad and then you're going to feel bad and like there's so much that could happen there I did want to ask have you guys ever

lived with these parents before like

early on in marriage like or would this be the first time you guys have all lived under one roof um I did briefly after college um

we actually got married in their current house um but not not for a sustained

period of time now how

long um so after college I lived back home

for a couple of months and then um I mean we stay with them

anytime we visit but not more than a week at time but not with your wife I'm

saying well with with my wife not after

college but with my wife for periods of

so John so part of your so your motivation to do this is to be the noble

taking care of your parents and getting a bigger house essentially that you guys couldn't afford on your own but you get you and your family get an awesome big house okay right of economy the scale

with it brings down our living expenses

for both sides um but yeah that's that's

kind of bills and like like electricity

and water uh like is that you're thinking

when you're food maintenance of two

separate houses okay okay okay what the situation

you guys are in right now Jonathan the house that you're in what what's is

there is there problems with that is there size issues is there like is there

anything are you guys comfortable in your current living situation long term

I don't see this house lasting us more

than a few more years so why

um the layout of it we've it's 2500

square feet that sounds like a lot more than it feels like the house is um it's

not laid out very well okay and and how

much do you guys owe on that house uh mortgage is 175 remaining for a

house that's worth about 410 410 okay uh

and how much you guys make a year uh 120

single income 120 okay you're making it

and then your parents their situation what how much what what what's their home worth they their home is worth

about 300,000 they have about 65,000

remaining on the mortgage awesome and how much are they are they working

they're still both working and their

combined household incomes about 180

okay and do they have retirement like do they have a nice retirement yes yeah

they're they're expecting their retirement especially if they can keep working a few more years years uh to be

somewhere around 80,000 a year not

drawing from Investments perfect and they'll be having that house paid off soon okay so Jonathan um how far away do

you guys live from each other now about

eight hours how much about eight hours

eight okay so it is long distance right now so you guys want to be you want you want to be close us moving to another

Midwestern metro area okay is it cheaper

than Minneapolis Town comparable they're both

relatively low to comparable okay and

does your do your careers allow you to

move and find something in the same

field amount of money and all I need is

an airport and that would that would work perfectly there okay and um they

they don't need your assistance right now medically correct correct and when

when do you see that

happening

um that's a a situation we'll know more

in um probably six months okay is it

both of them or one of

them potentially both um what is it

what's going what's going on with them can I ask so my my dad has some back

issues that uh

that um causes him pain he's still able

to fully functional yeah he might have

some surgical procedure to try and address it that might have some risks with it okay what about your mom associated with it um she's got she's

got an early screening for potential

dementia I'm sorry um so no no definitive diagnosis

there but would become an issue okay

yeah absolutely um okay I don't want to

sound heartless as I move into tactical real quick we just we have 30 seconds

real fast Jonathan so here's what I would do if I was your friend and me and Winston were out with you Jonathan and your wife over drinks and we're talking about your situation I would say if you

guys want to move closer to family to be with family do it go get your own house

they're about to have a paid for home they're living their retirement dream go close to them so that you guys can can

commute and do what you need to do there

if you if there's no urgency to move now

unless there's something coming there's nothing definitive right now in their medical history that that is necessary a

scary thing in y and that that can be

but I would not combine just to get a

bigger house Jonathan I wouldn't I would I would Nei so that's what Jade and Sam

and Winston and Rachel would say if we were all out to dinner with you Jonathan I'm not doing it y so um I yeah I

appreciate the nobility though Jonathan thanks for the call this is the ramsy

show

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welcome back to the Ramsay show I am at

Rachel Cruz hosting with Jade warshaw

and taking your calls if you guys have

not checked out Financial Peace University this is something that is a

staple here at Ramsey Solutions um that

I I would really recommend it is our

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money from the basics to everything you

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join a class actually and be in community with other people while you're doing this but uh we find that people

that are take FPU they are debt free and

two years or less and their financial turnaround is just amazing so if you want to just know more if you're new to this show a lot we have a lot of new people from podcast and YouTube and

you're like man I just need like a crash course on getting my money in order what

do I do go to ramsy solutions.com FPU

and check that out because it really is

um it's a great investment we have that tool in every dollar um premium which is

another it's like the best budgeting

tool on the planet you guys so I just we

were talking to some people that come

here and they sit in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions and they watch the show live which is so fun and so we get to

talk to people during the breaks and everything and uh I would say every dollar is probably the one that gets

brought up of like oh my gosh you know we we use every dollar we love it it's helped us so much and so uh make sure

there's a free version just on the App Store so check that out so we just have some great resources here at Ramy want to be able to help you uh when it comes this to this financial Journey because there's a lot of questions could be a lot of confusion a lot of voices out

there and we want to be clear and concise if you all I agree no every dollar is the that's that's the business right there and because it has the guidance in there for you too so it's like if you have questions it's in there

telling you hey you should probably do this or if you're thinking I wonder if this is enough savings it'll tell you like yeah you need a little bit more like it'll tell you all that stuff it's wonderful yeah and we actually do some webinars around every dollar so if you go to Every doll.com bugeting Jade you're doing some I'm doing some mine's coming up 1010 oh perfect oh it's coming up soon yeah okay so uh go to

everydollar.com bugeting you can sign up for those webinars I'm doing one in November and December I think George campell's doing some as well so we are

um yep here to help you guys so make sure to check out all those resources because we want to help you along this

journey all right up next we have Gregory and bxy hey hey Gregory welcome

to the

show Gregory are you there how are you

doing yes ma'am good how are

you I am doing great how are you we are

doing awesome how can we help

today um I have some questions on how to

get my Roth IRA started um I've heard a

lot about it and I just don't know

exactly where to go and and what to what

to put my money into yeah that's a great

question a great starting off point so

if it were me I would I mean there's

several brokerages that you could open up a Roth IRA with and you could do that

portion on your own just open up the account but when it comes to the investing side of it I would work with a professional I'd work with a smart Vestor Pro and if you're on baby step 4

the goal is that you're investing 15% of

your income are you on baby step

4 uh I am yes man' awesome how much how

much do you make a year uh I make about

60 65 okay perfect perfect um yeah so I

mean yeah you'll be able to invest do you have a 401k at your at your workplace by chance I do um and I have

it maxed out to the match I also have

one with the my second job the reserves

and the Marine Corps I have it maxed out to match to go well done Gregory that's

amazing yeah um so I'm trying to get to

that 15% with the Roth IRA that I wanted

to know how to get to it yeah that's awesome thinking you'll have yeah a little over you know probably Seven Grand to be able to invest uh that 15% and that's uh that's amazing

because you'll take yeah you'll do the match first and that's exactly right

you're doing everything exactly right do the match first and then go over to the

Roth and then for all of you listening out there you know you go ahead and max out your Roth and if you still have 15%

left if you still have percentages left of your 15 go back to your 401k and

you're able to invest in that too um go

back to that but yeah the Roth IRA is

the next step for you Gregory and you can Max it out at 6,000 you probably won't Max it out right now um with your

income but all the extra remaining 15%

you have yes will go into that WTH and

um Jade said it but I would sit down with the smart investor Pro if you go to Ramsey solutions.com we have people all

all over the country who are investment professionals and yeah you can actually open up the account on your own uh but

we we would encourage you to do good

growth stock mutual funds that's right

inside of that Roth IRA uh to invest so

that your money is spread out and um

it's a great it's a great retirement vehicle the Roth yeah tell them you want tell them you want growth aggressive growth growth in income and international that's what you want 25%

of the money you give them into each of those categories and they'll help you pick the funds that are performing best in those areas okay yep awesome Gregory for the

call yeah well done thanks for your service and um man that's it I'm like if

I applaud you Gregory like that's exactly it you get through to baby step four take that 15% and divide it 401K

Roth IR and and you do that over time

and how quickly compound interest is

your friend and and stuff with the WTH You guys like it grows taxfree and it's

and it's huge it does kind of hurt sometimes because you pay with after tax dollars right right right so it does feel a little bit like oh man I got to take it out of like when it hits your account you're like and then it comes out of that like you're like that's a lot you feel it you feel it but you rather feel it now then when you're 60

you know so all day all day long so

great all right up next we have uh Rudy

in Los Angeles hey Rudy welcome to the

show hey guys thank you for having me

absolutely how can we help um so my

question is I am currently upside down

on my carnal hey Rudy are you able to

are you able to speak directly into your phone you're cutting out just a little bit I want to make sure we can hear you yes you guys better now yes wonderful

thanks so I'm currently upside down on

my car loan my car loans for

37,000 um I made some calls let's see um

how much I can get for it and the guy

from auction said I can possibly get 31

maybe 32 for it um that is my means of

transportation at the moment why are you

auctioning it as opposed to so I and put it the VIN

uh the mileage and the details of the vehicle and based on the market value of

the vehicle that's approximately how much they're offering um for the current

condition that it's in did you look at like Kelly Blue Book uh actually tried that the only

thing is um quick backstory uh I got the car last

year um within 6 months that I purchased

the vehicle or I got the Lo for the vehicle it got stolen so on yeah so on

the title it comes as as it's branded

now and so when I put it into Kelly Blue

Book since the car has a branded title

um they don't they don't want to give me

uh an offer you said it has a bad title

but you got the car back and it was your car to begin with yes correct who's

telling you this um I in put it on KY blue books and

other like carvana and uh these other

places and they didn't want to offer me

uh any anything for it they offered me

literally like a dollar for it um

because it it had a it said branded

title vehicle and because of that they

didn't want to give me an offer for it

branded title yes so what about personal

sale personal yeah that's what I've been

trying to look into um do you hold the

title on this car like who it's

uh my mom's a call center with me um so

it's under both of our names

okay interesting okay so are you are you

wondering if you should sell the car or you're you're wanting to sell it

obviously yes but uh I guess my question

is how do it go about it do I wait until

I can uh get a vehicle cash so I don't

feel like I without a vehicle I just

sell it and then work on getting yeah

you could that money to get the vehicle yeah because you'll have to take out a loan of the difference which will be about five grand so what you could do is

just take out a loan for 10 grand and have $5,000 to buy a car um because I would

rather have a $10,000 loan than a

$37,000 loan and so um so yeah so if I

were you you could take out but um always my caution when you do that is it's like oh well we could take out you

know 12,000 we could take out 13 you

could start going deeper and deeper in debt and so being very disciplined in it

and again you're going to be buying a car a crappy car right that's uh that's

going to get you through but yeah I would do that Rudy um I think that's a really smart a smart decision and I know

uh this this whole thing's probably new and you're like oh my gosh how do we how do we go about it but uh I think that's wise take out a small loan uh get a car

and gosh get that $377,000

away I'd rather have 10 than 37 so great

job Rudy Jade great hour thanks to all

the guys in the booth and thank you America for listening this is the ramsy

[Music]

show hey what's up guys it's Jade look

if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps

go to ramsy solutions.com and click the

get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on

your specific situation that's ramseys

solutions.com and click get

[Music]

[Music]

started live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships I am Rachel Cruz

hosting this hour with fellow Ramsey

personality and great friend Jade

warshaw and we are taking your calls

America free call anywhere in the country at

88255 225 so give us a call all right up

next we have Alexandra on the line hey

Alexandra welcome to the show hi hi

Rachel and Jade how are you we are doing

great doing great how can we help

okay so I'm in a bit of a situation here

um so we we purchased a well okay so we

closed on our house um on the 24th of

August oh congratulations and thank you

um I don't know how we got it but we went in with all we had um kind of

desperate just wanting to get out of a $2,100 rent and yep and then we're at a

$1,400 mortgage now um firsttime home

buyers we've been together since sixth grade um um we're 37 years old we have

two um kindergartens that just started

the twin boys started year so um this is

our situation we closed we moved so

we're uh I think about 2 hours north um

from his previous job and I say previous

because two weeks after we closed he

lost his job

no yeah no fault of his own it was just

you know a car that was given to him so

that he can drive to work he was doing

that you know obviously every day um and

so now he didn't have a transportation

to get there because I need the car to

bring the kids to work to to school because they just started school this year um so he's he's unemployed right

now um this is my husband but I'm I'm

I'm so scared because um and I'm hoping

that he can get into something right very soon um we were able to make so we

Clos in August our first um mortgage

payment was on the 1 we were able to make that so we sent it out that's done

it's $1,400 right okay and so now we're having to

pay again you know on the first um we

only have like $1,600 in

savings um the big thing is if he so

we're we're hoping he can get into this new job next week um so it's going to be

a little bit of a a pay cut um so it'll

be at 62 a year he was earning more

closer to 80 a year but now we're out in

the country farm life this is what we wanted this is what we get he's going to get paid less sure um so he's down at

62 can you make can you pay all the

bills with him at 62 I think we can

because if we were already doing it then and and and yeah he was making more but

we were spending much more and then now

I'm like uhuh when I'm doing that yeah

um you know so we can I know we can um

but this is the thing let me get to it quick um the RV we have a RV that is 30k

a note of 30k on it and the payment is

400 bucks a month um I don't know what

to do to it with with it because we're

just just parked in our land here and

and it's it's a 2017 we got it desperately in uh 2021 because we were

needing to get out an apartment that we were living in and the house that we had

you know we were trying to get into at that time it the sale didn't go through

so so that I won't have to release you

know another contract we just went to a

campground and so we got the we got the

RV and then we just kept um house

searching we found the house and then so here we still have it what can you what can you sell it for yeah I don't know to

be honest um I'm sure it's going to be less than what we owe yeah yeah you'll

take a hit on it but you're just trying to stop the payments and stop the depreciation from taking you guys we

don't have any late payments Sunday we were able to make that last month but this is the month right now coming up this one in November is the one that's going to hit us it's going to it's I don't know how we're going to do it yeah

um when will you know if your husband has the job um he will find on Monday and and I

think and I want to go with 90% they're going to take him on okay good yeah and

so it's going to be a pay cut you know um yeah so so I want you the first thing

I want you doing um is you've got a lot

going on and I can tell by the way

you're telling the situ it's like you're just like in this and you're just keep

keeping going um and I want to kind of

clear your head a little bit tonight when you get off the phone you guys sit down run run the numbers use every doll

open up every dollar budget if you don't have it Austin will get it to you and I want you to run the numbers for your paycheck and his paycheck at the 62,000

all right then I want you to run the numbers just in case he doesn't get this

job and go what do we need coming in the house to make sure we're able to fill

because once you have those numbers in your head uh Alexandri you're going to feel so much better because at least you'll know what the real numbers are

what the anecdote is and then you'll be able to make a game plan going forward

what I really want to hone in on and I think Rachel will do a good job with this too is I want you guys there's a

lot of desperate moves going on

everything is oh we got desperate and we had to do this and then we got desperate and we had to do this and we got desperate and the chain here the the

pattern that's happened is when you guys

get desperate you do you make bad

choices and I want that that's got to

stop today so what that looks like is in

in the here and now making a plan for the here and now but not only that but going forward I want you guys to be on a

plan with your money so you know what your goals are you know what's going you know what's coming down the pike and you're in control and you're happening to your life instead of everything around you just happening to you guys and you're reacting and you know you're on the balls of your feet all the time

um that's got to change and I think that a plan for your money is going to help you have you ever heard of Financial Peace University um so no um just recently I

started listening to you guys I to be

honest I grew up I want to say in the

ghetto to be honest I never had money in

my life my both my mom and dad just worked just to yeah take care of five of

us you know so um you know I just grew

up you know working and paycheck to paycheck you know rent rent rent Rent All my life until we were finally able

to get this and it was through an FHA that's why I say we

lucky to get it but you know here we are we're so happy we have a nice little house sure sure but but also you're so

happy but you're also very stressed okay so what we want you to see is and Jade's

exactly right being proactive with your money versus reactive and you just said it and I think the way we grow up with money is a huge part of our story and that's what was modeled for you um but

now the beautiful thing is now you get to change that so Alexandra stay on the line Austin's going to pick up and we're going to give you every dollar premium which is our budgeting app that we'll we'll attach to your checking account it

will and you guys will be able to bring in transactions you'll be able in real time to be budgeting your expenses what Jade was saying and we're going to give you Financial Peace University which is

our nine lesson course and you and your husband you guys need to learn how this

stuff works and Alexandra I'm going to warn you it's going to feel uncomfortable you said you're new to all of this and when you you have to get to

this point and you're there I feel it and you're in your voice and why you called is you're not happy with your current situation what you guys have done that led you up to this point yes he lost his job unbeknownst to him I get it stuff has happened you are not happy

with where you are which means you have to change what you've been doing and change is hard Alexandra it's hard and

so you're going to be doing some painful things that are going to feel uncomfortable because they're new but they're the right things to be doing we

are the best in the business at getting people in control of their money so listen to the plan follow the plan Don't

Stray From it and so looking at your

numbers getting facts on paper is going to give you some breathing room you're probably going to be selling the RV you guys may have to take a second job in order to to float the bills for for the

next month which is okay hopefully he gets his job and you guys are on track

but you guys got to get your craft together because craft together because you're going to end up in the same place again but we believe you guys can do it you can you can you got to make the

[Music]

change

[Music]

our question of the day comes from

neighborly and it's your hub for Home

Services neighborly has top quality providers like Precision Door Service

Junk King and more more to help you take care of projects before the weather gets

cold so find the local help that you

need by downloading the neighborly app

today all right all right today's

question comes from weson Rhode Island he says I attended University of Phoenix

back in September 2014 and I have around

10,000 in federal student loans I

recently received an email from the FTC

saying that because University of Phoenix committed fraud and used

unethical tactics to get student loans

to get students to en en roll federal

student loans are going to be forgiven for anyone who enrolled between 2012 and

2014 I was very happy to receive this

news however when it comes to federal

government forgiving student loans I

don't have faith that it'll happen should I have very for good reason

should I pause my payments and let nature take its course or continue

making payments um I you know this is a

really good question and I'll be honest there's been a lot of conversation and

narrative around student loan forgiveness is it good is it bad should it happen should it not happen um in

cases where there's been true fraud fraud like yeah this is by the government they ensure this so no it

will be paid yeah it'll be paid and you

don't have to feel bad about that's the kind of forgiveness that I'm like yes please green button you need to get your

money back um and I think it will be

paid now he says should I pause my payments and let nature take its course or continue paying um you know because

of the way student loans are set up right now what I might do is I might put the money in account like in an account and kind of like set it aside and then when the when the actual forgiveness comes through I'll feel good about like okay I can let that money go um what

would you do I mean that's what I would do yeah I would contact because I mean

most of these places have um contacts

especially if it's a specific year like this it sounds very specific yeah so I would get in touch with somebody uh to

be able to say hey what's the timeline what's going on and kind of see where they're at because I mean you definitely

don't want to get in a situation where you're getting behind on payments and for some reason this doesn't go through right um but I would kind of get a feel because again this is this is legal fraud so in this case uh the government

does ensure that I mean and this happens

a lot and and sometimes that hits the headlines where they're like so and so

right now it's Biden Biden Administration forgives x amount of student loans you know this happened with Trump too but I'm like those that they were forgiving were actual fraud cases like the sitution very specific

very narrow and they have to by federal

law yeah you know I mean that that that

is that they're they're living out what

the law says so it's not like these you

know it's a hero kind of thing yeah Phoenix they screwed you or whatever you

know the way they did it like it's it's fraudulent so what I wouldn't want is

for him to stop paying something

accumulate above and beyond and them say

well like that doesn't count I don't I don't think they would but I would definitely do what you said get clarity get clarity get something in writing that you know um but I think that these

kind of situations they do end up clearing up which is awesome it will pay you yep for sure uh well dang Wes guess

that's great yeah ding ding I guess but

at the same time it's like yeah my school doesn't exist it was fake does

University does is it gone it's gone it is gone like the IT Tech those Jokers

are out man yeah can you imagine can you

imagine I'd be so pissed that would be

so hard that you have a degree and you're like listen I don't know although in my case I think I'd like the money back I think I'd rather have the money back and be like oh your school doesn't

exist I think I have the money absolutely give me the cash give me the

cashy all right up we have Amanda in

Tyler Texas hey Amanda welcome to the

show hi thank you for having me

absolutely how can we help so my question is I have about 30

actually I looked at it I've got about

$35,000 in credit card debt um I'm going

through a divorce and so the beginning of the divorce I had zero thank you um

at the beginning of the divorce I had um

you know zero debt I had we had $40,000

in savings cars paid off basically you

know doing everything that we should be doing um you know according to Dave

rams's um teachings and uh now I've got

all this debt but I only get

$2,700 a month and I've gotten to the

point where the attorney fees keep

coming and I can't keep up with it and

so I have haven't made my payment on my

three credit cards for two months

and my question is do I just let it go

because I need to be saving money for more attorney fees or do I try to find

some like I keep getting emails I mean

um letters for debt consolidation do I

try something like that or do I just let

my credit score you know continue to think yeah

are you are you working Amanda I don't I'm a I'm a homeschool

mom and at the time at right now I can't

move and I can't change the kids

schooling and so I tried picking up some

side jobs um but then I ended up getting

needing to be hospitalized for a short amount of time and um and so I have

those bills that I um submitted for

claims because since I'm still married I still have medical insurance and um he's

refusing to sign the necessary paperwork

so now I have the medical facilities

calling me saying hey you owe us $40,000

cuz your claim was denied so I'm just

drowning um and knowing that once the

divorce is over with I probably won't

even be able to rent something because my credit score is going to be so horrible it started off as great and now

it's down like in the six low

600 okay well the credit score for right

now would not be my concern um yeah the

40,000 that the medical I mean if you're still legally married I mean I would have your lawyer on that that that that

feels that feels off to me the fact that he's not uh you know accepting your

claim because you technically still do have insurance but I mean I want to know you know just just to look out for you

um what what are you planning on doing

when this is all final because you will

need health insurance you will need a

job and income coming in because I don't know if you can live you can't live off $2,700 a month with the kids especially

no yeah um so my plan was to go back to

school I was going to school to be a court reporter and so I was planning on

finishing you know doing that online

while I just worked you know I don't

have any experience so you know I'd have to do things like pet sitting and uh

waiting tables it's going to be a rough few years yeah but without an education

I really can't take care for kids even

with um child support yeah it's just can

I I'm going to push you just a little bit on that one um because we do I mean

the the the world has shifted to a to a

degree that that college degrees it

doesn't matter nearly the way it used to the way it used to so I even wonder Amanda for you like finding a great you know even a receptionist job at a

dentist office like a dentist office finding finding something that gives you the hours you need gives you the benefits that you need cuz you're going to want the whole package instead of piecing together all of these side

hustles um so I think you have more to

offer uh than you think and I understand

it's very int it would be very intimidating going into the workforce where you don't have experience yeah you you said you've been you know a mom you've been homeschooling kids but even

the skill set that you had that what

you've just done can be very impressive

to people that need help and in Tyler Texas there's probably a lot of small businesses that need admin work and all that so I would give yourself way more credit Amanda not that waiting tables and dog sitting is is bad it's not but

you can earn more money but you can do more and you will want to do more and

have more you know available when it

comes to benefits and everything just to take care of you you and the kids and so

um I would I would push you on that first and foremost that when that when that comes and um and I would be looking

for something as soon as possible because is the $35,000 in credit card

debt is that just living expenses that

you've had to rack up because you don't have enough money to pay the bills no um it's actually mostly

attorney fees and medical because I've

been covering all of all of the medical

bills okay um for myself and and our

children and so so is the is the 35 so

you mentioned 35k in credit cards and 40,000 in medical is that kind of synonymous then if you've been paying it on the credit cards no the 40,000 is just it's new

it's as of last month um that came in

addition to it um yeah and the other

issue is that now I've kind of ran the

divorce have been going on for a year

and so it could be going on even longer

um yep okay so um so me yeah keeping up

with those attorney fees it may cause some of that debt to continue to increase but I think looking for a job

and supplemental income is going to be

your next bet just to get you on solid

foundation and taking care of yourself too Amanda I hate we we have a hard clock out here in a second but hang on the line Austin's going to pick up and I'm going to give you John's new book uh building a non-anxious life because taking care of you Amanda overall is going to be really important in this season thanks for [Music]

calling [Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey show we are

taking your calls America at

8825 5225 up next we have Tracy in Phoenix

hey Tracy welcome to the

show Hello thank you so much for taking

my call absolutely thanks for calling in

how can we help yeah this really is going to take a

lot of stress off of me um so I have a situation where I just moved from Georgia and I have a home there that's paid off um it's probably worth we

haven't appraised it yet but it's probably worth between 280 and 300,000

okay um I moved to Phoenix and I live in

an apartment um and I'm currently um you

know just trying to get my credit score

up and I'm actually working with the lender so I can purchase a home here um

now I have the down payment um the 20%

to buy a home here and me selling my

house in Georgia has nothing to do with

me purchasing here oh wow and so my

question is yeah so my question is um

should I sell the home in Georgia and

use some of that um money to make the

payment lower and to bring it you know

the house down in Phenix a little bit

lower and then possibly buy a second

home here as a rental and put the other

half maybe on that home or should I

leave that house in Georgia as a rental

property sell it yes it I would say

unanimous yep unanimous sell it and I

would put everything of that home Tracy

um that 300 to the home in Phoenix I

would not look at a second property until that house is completely paid off do you have other

debt um I do that's the thing I I just

recently paid off a lot of credit cards but I do have about

158,000 and

stop okay I feel like you're jumping the

gun a little bit yeah we may have a plan for you Tracy we have we have no other debt it's

me and my husband combined we make about

195k that's great good for you guys can

I tell you my plan can I tell you the

Jade plan plan this is what I would do I

would sell the No No matter what you do

you're selling the home in Georgia that's we got to get rid of you don't live there anymore and so it's just going to be can I ask one one number question to help your argument hey how much how much is the 20% down how much

cash do you have saved in the 20% cuz we're add that to all

this the 20% well I have about 25 which

actually it's really not the 20% it's the 5% okay oh that's fine how much is

it 25,000 I could yeah it's about 25 but

I could access it do my husband's 401K

no no no no we don't do that how much cash Tracy do you have saved

25,000 25 yeah okay perfect okay you and

now I do have another question so you've got 25,000 saved is that the only

non-retirement money you have lying around or do you have other

non-retirement

savings I have no other non-retirement

money okay this is what Jade would do I

would like if Jade and Sam woke up in your shoes tomorrow I'd be like okay Sam

I think we should sell the house in Georgia pocket you know take home

280,000 and then with that money I would

knock out the student loans and then I

would put the rest with the 25,000 that

you have saved towards a down payment

now my next question is that I want to

do that but now let me go back because you need savings you need three to six months of savings before you buy a house

you'll she'll end up with about 155 yeah

$155,000 so I would put sum in savings

three to six months of expenses and how much would that be if you were to rough that out Tracy um monthly expenses yeah like

basic basic budgeting

expenses let's just say 4K with the

kidss tuition per

month yeah okay so around 25,000 for six

months okay so we got we got

$143,000 to put towards a house and look

at that and you're debt free with

savings wow look at that come on Tracy

are you doing a happy dance that's

great I am doing the happy dance see

some people are saying you should never sell a house that's paid off number they

don't know what they're talking about yeah and it was your primary home

Tracy if that was your primary home and you're still living in Georgia that's one thing but you're being a long-distant landlord you have an asset

which is amazing but you also have

liability which is your debt and so you're able to clean all that up still get a great house in Phoenix with an emergency fund in place like you're going to be M good to go um and you're

going to have a lot more peace than

trying to finagle all of this stuff so

you're starting on really really solid

ground Tracy I mean like you're this is

it's amazing what kind of the houses that you're looking at in Phoenix considering you have $143,000 left to to what how much are

the houses you're looking at like 538 high

30s No 5 oh five 538 okay and so when

you do go to buy a home let's go over these parameters because we want to make sure that it's it works out for you the way we would teach and the way that you

know I've always bought my homes is 15year fixed mortgage where the payment

is no more than 25% of your take-home

pay that's what we're looking for so if you

can do that with the down payment which you shouldn't have any trouble um but

that's what you're shooting for but the 15-year fixed rate is really where that's the one where people are like n can't I just do the 30 it's like the goal here is to pay things off and to

get that ultimate freedom of debt Freedom so that's why we'd say 15E fixed and you might get a better interest rate as well um by going that route but is

that what you're planning to

do yeah um the interest rates right now

are like 8% aren't they High I don't

know if I yes they're higher most

definitely for sure for sure but the 15

year you'll get a better rate but Jade is saying versus the 30 so okay yeah so

Tracy I mean that's yeah that's exactly

the the road we would take and it just sets you up that and you guys make great money you know you'll have about 350

left on the mortgage to be paying off but you're making 200 so you guys have this house paid off uh you know on

average we find people pay off their house in seven years s to 10 years and

it's it's amazing and you guys are going to be just Trucking along with not de no

debt and just yeah it's gonna be amazing

so glad you called in Tracy glad you

called in all right we got Payton up next in Lexington Kentucky hey pton

welcome to the show hi Rachel hi Jade

how are you we're doing great how can we

help so I'm on baby step two I have paid

off $30,000 nice car left I'm sorry you have

a what thousand car left left 30,000 we

were cheering Payton sorry we missed we missed the number no thank you um I have

an $88,000 settlement coming in within

the next four to six weeks and that will

put me a right side up on the car because it's worth about

$23,000 okay and I was wondering I could

pay it off by May or I could sell it and

be debt free as soon as I get the

settlement um what would your decision

be because I know Dave always says if

you can pay it off within two years and you love the car you can keep it fight for it yeah um how much are you how much

do you make a year uh 108,000 oh yeah

yeah I would I would keep it you're fine

I think the numbers are fine yeah I think you can pay it off even sooner honestly pton yeah I mean you'll have the 8K in cash to dump at it that's

great cuz did yeah that's what I

do okay I don't know if it' change

anything I have a old beater jeep that

is worth maybe $1,000 doll but take me

three to $4,000 to get it daily

drivable um would you still just uh keep

the car and just paid off by May or

sooner I think that part's up to you at

that point if I that I I you honestly I think that's

totally up to you it depends like obviously the I'm guessing the Jeep is not as in as good a shape as a $30,000

car but it really just depends on the

picture of your life that you want going

forward either either either way is fine

all right yeah yeah you're gonna get it paid off the the numbers aren't so lopsided that we're like oh my gosh get this car out of here pton you know because you're a yeah you're able to pay it off within six months which is amazing uh but if you're not attached to

the car and Payton we get a lot of people on this show and they're like get me out as soon as possible I'll throw

two grand at this Jeep get it fixed up

and I'm great driving it around and I'm happy and it's awesome if that's what

you want to do do that and be out of Deb

yeah you know in four weeks after you

fix the Jeep you can do that but also

that this car payment or this car loan is not absolutely going to kill you you you make great money you're going to be able to pay it off and you'll be completely debt free after that uh which

is just well on your way so yep I'm I'm with Jade that one that one's in your court Payton but uh thanks for the call

appreciate it this is the ramsy

[Music]

show [Music]

our scripture of the day comes from

Ecclesiastes 712 the protection of wisdom is like the

protection of money and the advantage of

knowledge is that wisdom preserves the

life of him who has

it have a tongue twister there Jade yeah

to repeat I'm going to have to marinate on that one and Frank said people can

tell you to keep your mouth shut but

that doesn't stop you from having your own opinion okay I like that great so

good all right up next we have uh Paige

in North Dakota hey Paige welcome to the

show hello uh my question is or I guess

uh my husband does doesn't want to try

and budget every time I bring it up it's

this big fight about who spends most

money on the most worthless things and I

don't know how

to handle that it's beyond that it's the

tip for Tat game you did this well I did

that when you do this so how are when

when these conversations come up let's

kind of retro back a little bit when

these conversations have come up have

they come up in the heat of the moment or has it been like hey honey or hey boo

whatever you call your spouse I want to sit down and talk here's what I'd like

to talk about you know um is it that

sort of thing or is it just like this is

happening out of the heat of a moment of somebody opening up a bill for

something I I wouldn't say it's nor like

the key to the moment but it's always like when we go paycheck to paycheck

week after week you always scraping the barrel and then I'm like hey can we try

this and then he like gets super mad

about it and then it's just paycheck to

paycheck it's the same thing you just

want to break that cycle um yeah part of

it I think I think part of it how you approach it I think that if instead of

uh attacking the conversation as we need

to stop doing this you know we're just living paycheck to paycheck you know we've got to start getting on a budget I think if you kind of approach it in the way of um I'm really I'm really worried

and I'm really scared and I've just been noticing like my anxiety is going nuts and I think it's because we're overspending I think it's because we are

not on the same page and I'd really like to be on the same page what does that look like to you like I'd kind of throw the ball on their CT of like what do you

think that looks like and that way it's

not you saying not necessarily coming in

saying this is what we need to be doing but just opening up that conversation have you tried that I have tried that and I've

suggested few different things like hey

we put Wolford paychecks into the joint

account for bills and such you can put x

amount I use like $300 for an example

into your own personal account to spend it on what you want you know gas station

whatever and then once you go past that

you can't dip into the

uh yeah okay so page already can I say

this already it's becoming a page is

telling what's your husband's name or if you don't want to say well Bob Bob we'll

come Bob okay

okay uh it's already you almost in a

maternal role of okay we're going to put

your money here and you can't do this and this this this it it is still this

hierarchy of you being the kind of

authority in a sense and so the goal

would be just to paint you a picture is

that you are both a team you both are

equal in this he has as much say in this

as you do you have as much say as he

does and it's you guys together saying

oh yeah this and this and this and this versus one telling one what to do if

that makes sense and so um yeah no that

makes sense yeah and I would say this too with an aster there's naturally always going to be more of the nerd and there's naturally always going to be the free spirit so like Winston forever will

love Excel and love the budget and love

painting out what investments of this

this this more than me which is funny because this is my job and this is like what I do every day but he actually is more of the numbers and thrives on that

and more of the saver than I am so he

won't change who I am but the way we

approach our money together can still be

as a team so always know that you still will have your own personalities he may never just love the budget like Paige

does and that's okay but as long as

you're both in it together that's going to be the goal so I would want to know

do do you do you know his hesitation

what what it is that he kind of pushes

back against and why or why he pushes

back against us I think he likes to kind of be in

control a little bit um I know he's

always brought back that before we even got together I had no problem you know

with my money but so he's trying to kind of make it you're the blame kids are the

blame but live or like our lives have

changed since we met you know sure we

live in a different place and things are

more expensive and to kids to do through

daycare and yep so I would ask then back

just to keep the conversation going I think Jade's Point's really good is like I want to hear from him and so like okay

so you're saying that before all of this

you were you know you you didn't have money problems which to a degree duh

because you didn't have all these expenses right that's what we're all thinking but also what what were what

did you have in place that worked really well because he may have his own way of

doing stuff that you know you don't see

uh that maybe you actually could Implement and so I think again it's going back to to this like it's this team mentality which I know is so easier

said than done page cuz we're about to get off the air here in 5 minutes and and go home and I know you're the one that's having to have these conversations but as much as you guys

can sit down and say gosh I feel like this is pinning us against each other

and we can't be against each other like

we are in this together and we both want to win like like no one wants to choose to have a stressful anxious life and

marriage and so and no one's trying to

say whose fault it is like if you and

Bob can both agree this the problem is

it's us it's us like we're we're

paycheck to paycheck both of us don't like that both of us would love to get

to a point where we've got savings and you know we we're out of debt like if

you guys can surround that and like lock

arms around that and that's where you're

going to move forward yeah and sometimes Paige especially with guys that's kind of a stereotype so it may not be true for him but I have found like when you can put numbers and actual facts instead

of just ideas and theories of cutting

back and all this when you actually see numbers down sometimes it helps because

you can actually blame the numbers instead of blaming each other and so I

would just say hey one night like after

dinner can we please will you and just

ask them can you will you just give me an hour and I want to pull out the bills

and I just want to look and like what if I just want to and help me do it right bring him in that you're Paige isn't bringing everything and Paige isn't telling what the numbers are together

we're having a conversation so will you

just sit down because I want to know like okay are you spinning on gas and you guys just make this puzzle and lay

out the numbers and kind of just do a mock budget together again try I don't

want it to be conflict filled or tension filled this is just bringing numbers to the table uh and let that be a starting

point because I think sometimes in our

heads things can be magnified in our

heads things can be isolating there's so much that if we just keep up in our head

and in our mind it just can go sideways

and when things are down and you're looking at actual facts and looking at actual numbers sometimes not always but

sometimes that kind of like diffuses the

tension um because you see that and then

from there you know look at the Tactical

and then also it's if it's going well that night or maybe it's another night dream and just say hey what would it

look like in five years what does our life look like how old are our kids what grade are they going to be in where do we want to be like just start to like have this vision of where you guys want to be as a family and there's something about being proactive in that that is so

inspired ing than just living life paycheck to paycheck month to month and you look up and it's been 5 years and you don't know where you know you don't know where you're going and so having

that I think is really key too Paige but just know you're not alone in this this is one of the biggest problems we hear from people is that one spouse is on

board and wants to do this and another isn't so you're not alone in it and also

we've heard so many couples on our debt free stage say gosh I wasn't on board I

thought y'all were crazy and and then finally we all I got on board and together we did this so even couples who

win start out where you guys are so have hope page that this can change it it

really can but I think it's really the way you approach don't be the mom definitely don't be the mom have a humble Spirit about it um but bring you

know this conversation it's a

conversation to be had it's not pointing fingers and and blame even this picture

of put the numbers out in front of you and like lock arms and like it's us

against you numbers like you know what I mean it's not us against each other so

it's good uh it's powerful page that's a

it's a big part of winning is you and your spouse and just for the sake of your marriage not just your money for the sake of your marriage I pray that um

that this brings you guys together so thanks for the call Jade thanks for a

great show today it was good always fun

always fun thanks to the guys in the boots make it happen thanks to the audience that came out today to Nashville to watch the show live we

appreciate you guys and we appreciate you America for listening this is the

ramsy

show hey it's Rachel Cruz if you like

what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the ramsy baby steps go to ramsy

solutions.com and click the get started

button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your

specific situation that's ramsy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 184. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for January 1, 2024)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:19:36 |

---

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm Ramsey personality George camel joined by my good friend Dr John deloney who's having a spectacular week by the way congrats on your book launch John very exciting building a non-anxious life is now in the hands of

dare I say dozens Millions different answers dozens and dozens well if you're watching on YouTube you'll notice I'm sporting a deloney shirt that we just got in this is not merch you can buy a bunch of people put yeah they they printed up uh my manager print up a whole bunch of them John's mom decided to just make some merch to make him feel better that's right

but it's fun so in honor of Dr John delon's book launch I'm wearing a deloney shirt I expect you to wear a campel shirt during my book launch a camel tattooed on my chest for sure little aggressive but I like the spirit behind it we're going to make it happen man no thanks I'm excited to have it out in the world man well hey we are taking your calls today about money relationships anxiety how it's all interconnected

so give us a call 8825 5225 is the number to call and

Adrien kicks us off in Miami Florida Adrian welcome to Miami what's up how's it going hey hey guys how are you guys doing today pretty well how how are you doing how can we help better than I deserve um so I my wife and I are um in

baby step number two right now um we have about $6,600 uh left in credit card debts but

uh we should be paying that off in the next couple of months here um and uh

another portion of our debt is a car lease um that we got into three years ago and U that car lease will be up in June of next year um and and I we just

want to know um should we try to get out of that lease um as soon as possible or

uh wait the the eight months and um turn

in the car and then save up in these next eight months to buy a car cash that's a common conundrum when you figure out dude we got fleeced on this thing how do we get out there's a few ways out of this thing the most common one is to find out the early bu out amount do you know what that number is um yeah so I would have to come up

with um about

$4,000 um because uh the the value of

the car right now doesn't match what it's it's worth it's depreciated further than what you owe on it yes welcome to I

cars are the stupidest things we buy okay so you're four grand underwater on this how much money do you guys have in the bank um well right now um to cover our

bases I mean we have our $1,000 uh emergency fund okay and then everything else are kind of throwing uh towards our debt and what could you sell this car

for um right now blue Kelly Blue Book is

uh showing um 32,000 okay that's not bad so if you own

this thing you could go sell it for 32k and based on what you owe on it would that give you enough to buy a car um something cheap and

used yeah so if if we sell for 32 um we

would still need to pay um the lease company on an additional $4,000 which is

um I guess the remainder of those uh uh

payments that we owe them for using the car okay so how quickly could you save up four grand um uh

if we could probably save up four grand in about four months four or five months okay but that would leave us with nothing left to purchase a car cash so we would kind of be you know in the that get you to Net Zero yes so I'm gonna ask a Adrian I'm

gonna ask George a question on your behalf is that cool yeah that's fine so

George he owes $32,000 on this deal and

there is a walkway Point coming up but he owes 32,000 on this thing if he owned

the car and was trying to get out of the debt we would tell him hey go over to a credit union take out this the $44,000 loan and you just drop your total debt

32 to four essentially and so go go to a Credit Unit take out a $7,000 loan buy a $3,000 car get out of this thing and be done does that does that apply for a lease whatever would get you out of this pickle of O if you owe the four grand you can get a personal loan for that much from the credit union it would get you out of this a lot faster than four months Adrian I'm wondering if you don't go get a $7,000 loan at a credit union

get rid of this car buy a $3,000 car you

and I both know it's going to be a dramatic shift in how you roll down the street right you're going to have to tint those windows so people can't see you um but um you are instantly going

from owing $34,000 to 7,000 bucks you

cut your debt significantly by doing

that what's your lease payment uh right now it's uh 520 ouch

for how much longer um eight months and the thing is

it's it's my wife's car and we just have had a baby so she doesn't feel too comfortable getting into a $3,000 car don't care at all don't care at all don't care at all don't you're talking to the wrong two guys about that because we both have kids and it just doesn't matter like it

Comfort at this point is she rather y'all y'all walk into a house every day that's electric because y'all can't breathe right what do you drive yeah what do you drive uh yeah I drive a 2013 Kia that's

paid off and it has $ 200,000 200,000

miles on it okay you're already rolling with that $3,000 car cool could she drive that and you drive the beater I mean that's that's pretty beater George well for three grand you're not getting much you'll be lucky to get a 203 Kia with 200,000 M on it for three grand in this economy so I'd start your research and see your options but I don't know that I'd stick

this out until June of 2024 keep making these payments that sounds miserable I want to get out fast and $3,000 may be that may be me being obnoxious but honestly man this like

well she doesn't feel comfortable that's what got y'all in this mess yeah and I put the kid my kids in a

in a 1993 F-150 that didn't work too

great and everybody did fine I put my kids in the back of a Corolla that was

golly I just wanted it to die and it would never die cuz Corollas never die but they did fine was it comfortable

no did I have to get all weird angles to get the car seat out yes did I have anybody any money on that car absolutely not so Adrian you got to make a choice of what sacrifices you guys are willing to make and I'm not saying put your children in danger but you also have to not have the spectrum of either we're going to kill our children driving a beater car or going to stay in debt forever there's more options than that

and so I think you need to talk to your wife and you both have to agree on here's the game plan here's what we decided on it's for a temporary time we're going to be out of this soon we're going to upgrade the car and probably within a year right yeah yeah take um uh yeah you know

we make a a pretty decent income um so

uh about 140 you make 140 I think you can scrape together four grand Adrian in less than four months I'm thinking one month a no do a no spend month we covered only the basic bills minimum payments the rest goes towards getting out of this deep deep car hole we've got ourselves no eating out no buying any clothes nothing nothing nothing no Miami lifestyle that you've been leading yeah we'll get back to it soon enough my friend thanks for the call this is the ramsy [Music]

show [Music]

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[Music]

more

[Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George Cel joined by my friend Dr John deloney and we are here for you America taking your calls atle 8825 5225 if you've got that burning

question a conundrum a Crossroads you need some validation confirmation we are here for youle 8825 5225 Sierra joins us

up next in Cincinnati Sierra welcome to the show hey George and John how are you guys doing well how are you I'm doing good I'm doing good um so I have a little bit

of an interesting situation and I'm sure there are other people out in the world that are in this in a similar boat but I

am looking for advice on my situation um

so two years ago my father passed away

and um I bought his house um or I I did

a cash out refinance and put it in my name in order for it to be um to prevent

it from being foreclosed on um I don't

live in the house currently I haven't for years but my sister at the time when my father passed away lived with him he

was supporting her um and her kids until

the the kids got into um school age and

then they made an agreement to where once once they go to school she would start working and helping like help to pay the bills okay well neither of us expected him to pass away so now we're

in the situation where she had no job

and you know the house was being foreclosed on fast forward to now I now own the house 100% in my name and she is

working now however her her income is so

low to the point where she couldn't she cannot afford the mortgage payment by herself so currently am paying the

majority of the mortgage um she is paying me what she can to get by because

she's also taking care of kids um but I'm married I just got married and I bought the house right before um we got

married and so now it's me and my husband and I'm trying my best to figure out a plan a plan for the future to figure out how this can continue but not

be such a a big burden financial burden on us because we are trying our best to

get our debts paid we're we're following the budget we're on baby step too pretty

much um and you guys are renting right now we are renting right now in a different city but you have a mortgage on this home that you own in a different city your sister's still there with the kids and you're losing money every month

just trying to cover the mortgage for her yeah it feels like we're losing money because every um every extra dollar that could go to our debt is going to this mortgage well you're not in a place to be charitable in this way and let your sister live there for free yeah she's not she's she we've I

got a renters agreement um written up by a lawyer um she's signed it she's paying me x amount of dollars um so what would Market rent be for this place um if she moved out you get a rent her what do they pay for rent I would suspect and I'm not too familiar with housing market but I would suspect I could at least get 1,500 a month for it and what's the mortgage the mortgage um I did a Cash out refinance so I owe 119 on it but it

uh it appraised for 155 but since then

I've put about $20,000 in renovations so what's the monthly mortgage payment

969 okay and what's she able to pay every month she pays me $400 a month

let me ask a hard hard seemingly insensitive question okay um

okay how long has she been in this financial predicament um she it's been a couple

well back when my dad and her made an agreement that she she was working and then but she was having a hard time finding child care she's a single mom of two um so he told her that he would help

support her um while until the kids were

in school age right um so then she had

quit her job of five years um and really

was kind of depending on him um until he

passed away right and so you're doing a noble thing you're trying to keep going the agreement that he made with her yeah but what we have here is your dad trying to help you trying to help

mhm and we have somebody on the other end of this help not realizing the full sense of their predicament yeah and she's had a couple

of years is that easy no I've sat with

with with moms who lost everything like it's devastating and yeah it's her

responsibility to either come up with the ability to pay for $120,000 house which in this market in

this planet is unheard of right now I

won't say this planet in the United States it is um to figure out a way to

cover that or to figure out something

else but yeah I and I I know that sounds

heartless and I'm might I don't want to I don't want to beat up on single moms or anything like that right but here's what you're doing you're slowly

inching Inch by Inch by

Inch to exhaling really deeply every

time that phone rings and it's her on it m and you go or every time she says Hey the air conditioner is not working you go what that is is slowly inching

towards resenting your sister resenting

the fact that your dad made this deal and she doesn't deserve that your dad's memory doesn't deserve that and it's going to come down to not your help but because you wouldn't draw boundaries and say Hey you have to be the chief bread winner for you and your kids mhm and

that's your boundary to draw absolutely and I agree with you me

and her we've had our differences and we've had really hard tough conversations because I have set boundaries and I've kind of you know I used to pay her Wi-Fi and I used PID this and that and now it's just like I'm only going to help you with the Necessities you know and until only

until you can get to a point where you can cover all of this but I'm fearful with her job that she's never going to be able to afford that mortgage that's but that's a choice that she is making not you she has CH chosen that job and

yeah if you don't give her a deadline she'll never get there yeah I think

that's the next step is we have an exit strategy because guess what if you didn't own this house what would she be doing she wouldn't be able to afford rent anywhere or she would have gotten another job and figured it out exactly and we need to help her kindly to step

into that where we go all right how do we get you a different job where you could support paying rent Market rent in your area and if you can't afford it we might need to move we have to start dealing with these adult decisions but I think what we can't do is continue to coddle her and enable her and just support her at our own Financial destitute

I mean you guys have your own goals struggling you're broke yeah say this way you're broke you're not in a position to help and that sounds cruel and mean yeah yeah it it's almost kind of

scary because you know mine and my husband's like our household income is I mean to the outside world is pretty good but it almost feels like I we have no money in our account because I've either spent it all on remodeling the house or

it's going to I think we stop sinking money into this house I would sell this house and that might be the way to get hey months we're selling This months it's sold and I'll sell it to you if you have a job that you can afford it yeah a part of me one wants to do

that but another part of me just thinks that like you know this house my we came

up from nothing you know my parents were really poor I know but listen to me listen to me listen to me listen to me you're gonna you both still have nothing I need you to hear me say that

y'all have these assets that neither of y'all can afford the way you're you've managed it right now and I didn't come from a lot my dad

was a policeman and then he became a minister and I saw what the public

thought of public servants and so I promised I would never do that I was going to go make a bunch of money and you know what I did cuz I didn't Li I didn't change the way I lived I didn't change my money principles I ended up in way more debt than my dad could have ever been in I ended up broker than he did it's not about

we come from nothing and pulled ourselves up yall got to make some hard decisions about your financial situation I think you have to draw some boundaries with her and can strongly consider selling this house and I know it's got memories but right now those memories are dragging both of y'all [Music]

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Ramsey [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney open phones at aa825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life your money your relationships your mental health all of it right here in front of you on the Ramy show today's question of the day is sponsored by neighborly your hub for Home Services now you can find expert local help schedule appointments and get special offers exclusively in the neighborly app so go download the neighborly app now to start getting home repairs maintenance or improvements done all right today's question comes from Jason and South Carolina and it actually came in last week um before there was a Kick the Can

on the road um moment in the government

um but it said with the impending government shutdown how do I as a government employee combat the stress

and anxiety of possibly not getting paid but still being required to show up for

work is that how that works yeah well there's back pay so once they're back they get the money but while you're there it's not happening which means they're missing some paychecks I've got my own thoughts on that I'm the Sole Provider my third daughter will be here in November we have no savings and are in some debt all right so I'm G to answer this George globally because it's super frustrating for me if I had let's say um we had I want

to put something into context for everybody okay so when covid happened

and we were told you cannot go into the

office Dave and the operating board

called that emergency meeting if you remember that and Dave said we have this much money in the account this is how much cash this company has on hand and we are a cash only company this is how much we got this is how much cash it takes to operate and so you can see it's

going to get real tight real fast here is how things will go number one if it get super tight I will not take a check me the CEO and owner of this place number two the operating board will not take a check number three we will go into the next run of Vice Presidents will not take a check number four we may have to look into like so he laid out the map but in so doing he announced to

the whole company a transparently here's what we got this is on everybody on the same page here but I go first I'm the

leader I go first when times are good I

win big when times are bad I go first number two the next round of leadership go goes second the next run of leadership goes third and to leaders if y'all don't want to be a part of that bye Felicia there's the door right but here's how we're going to do this so ju supposed that with a group of

senators who are sitting I just have

this picture George of them in a kitty pool that they got at Walmart for $5 and it's full of like bubbles and they're throwing like Balloons with no no water

in them just like balloons at each other it's a great mental picture thank you for that if it shuts down they still get

paid who doesn't get paid are these

employees who have kids trying to make it so they're using these government

workers who keep this thing going for all of us as fodder for their little

temper tanty games that they're trying to play for an election coming up in in a year and it's so

disgusting how they use people like Jason as f for their little their little

future reelection campaign just pawns this right awful game of chess and so Jason if I worked for a guy if I had gone to that meeting and Dave had said listen here I'm getting mine if we shut

down if this shutdown actually happens I'm getting paid my exx are getting paid

the rest of y'all we're going to cut the low the the if the first in first out whoever the last 100 employees are y'all are fired after that I'm going to start taking 20% from everybody's paychecks right which happens across the country I literally would go to my wife and say we're out of here I don't trust that person as a leader as a person of Integrity as a stable operating leader

for the place that I that pays my family's rent right and Jason a I want

to challenge you to begin to broaden your Horizon and look bigger than this particular job because you work for people who will use you for their own political gain and it cost them literally nothing because they will still get paid the Senators doing this crap

playing tag with each other and then here's what's gonna happen George gonna play tag they're goingon to play tag they're gonna play tag and then something's going to set off and I hate it but Jason out explore something

bigger and then that so that's that's the big 30,000 foot view the reality is the anxiety and stress is the alarm

system going off we may not have enough money next month because our bosses are acting like children and they won't actually sit down and solve problems they just want sound bites for their Twitter account okay I'm going to always

go towards the alarm directly into it

what does this mean George tell me if I'm crazy this might mean I got to go to work until I find some other job that will pay me when I go every day instead of one that's going to give me back pay if they ever reopen and then you're going to have to deliver pizzas at night to pay the rent and you're GNA have to get up in

the morning and drive Uber on your way to your job that you're not getting paid for and then you're going to have to deliver pizza you're going have to figure out a way to get money and there I wish there was another option to that you can go borrow money and then you're going to you're going to trap yourself in a continued cycle of debt and false

security and whatever you're just going to have to figure out a way to work on Saturdays and Sundays and it's going to suck but that's the real that's the reality you face right yeah and what this is he's in baby step two he's got a baby on the way in November a third daughter and there's this impending shutdown so we call this storm or stor mode and it's

the only time to pause baby step to P off debt and just stack cash just keep your minimum payments everything else stack as much cash as possible until you're out of the storm until mom and baby are home until we know what the heck is happening with this government and so that might be 45 days that sounds like about right if you wait just month and a half get a side job keep working stack all those uh into savings

then once the dust settles we can move forward with the debt payoff that's what I would do that would help me with my anxiety and stress is some of the reality pieces of it so and so let's

let's let's say out loud what our fearless leaders are asking their government employees to do because they've only duct tape this thing together for 45 days Jason I hate to

tell you this but I think today after

work you should stop by a local pizza delivery place or get online and get signed up for what's some food delivery service Uber eat door Dash inart Amazon Flex go through that as quickly as possible or possibly call Walmart and go

visit a Walmart in your suit and tie and go in there and say hey can I sling boxes from 400 p.m. until 11:00 p.m. and

for the next 45 days I want you to stack cash and want you look at your wife who's expecting third baby and say hey we can't go out to eat because the people running our country are so um uninterested in solving some of these problems they're more interested in throwing crayons at each other um but we got a my job as as a responsible adult is to make sure we have food and shelter so let's go ahead and do that and George

just infuriates me because we watch the

news we watch these sound bites we see these big things like oh my gosh this and this and this side said that and that side that said that and Jason who's got a third baby on the way is the guy who's at home and his wife who's on the other end of this other end of this pingpong match between children who can't figure it out it just it's

so infuriating with me man it just it's disgusting at every single level on both sides of the aisle everybody involved in this thing just solve these problems and let's figure something out like adults and move on 100% well you through this

in your book building a non-anxious life six daily choices this is George keeping me from getting I'm I wish Jason we had your info we'd send you a book reach out to us we'll send you a copy of John's new book but go there's there are a lot of things you can do other than vent on Twitter or X or whatever it is and John will show

you how to recognize and break free from a life spinning out of control from chronic stress burnout anxiety and there's a thousand reasons to feel all those things right now but there's six choices you can make every day to combat that and John unpacks that in his new new book building a non-anxious life you can grab a copy today it's out in stores online in the world

and we love to see it can't wait to see what kind of life change happens from this book John go get your copy ramsy solutions.com we'll

be right back with more of the Ramsey

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this is the Ramy show if you're a new listener and you want to dive deeper into some of the lingo we use on the show The Baby Steps All That Jazz you can go to Ramsey solutions.com and click on the get started button and we've got a great little tool to help you figure out the next best step for your financial Journey based on where you're at today that's ramsy solutions.com and click on get started Mary joins us up

next in Knoxville Mary welcome to the Ramsey Show hi it's so crazy to be talking to you how are you it's crazy to be talking to Mary and Knoxville was just thinking the same thing how are you that's crazy

made it I'm good I know what's your question today uh my

question I have a $5,000 bonus for work

can com up in January um I think that we

I should put it towards my retirement um but my husband thinks that we're already putting too much into retirement and that we should save it towards our house fund o I think option three George just had a

baby and they are strapped for cash we'll do a GoFundMe yes okay so this is exciting so you've got a Bonus coming in January and you do

you feel like you're overfunding retirement I don't feel like we can overfund retirement because we're young and so we can calm down when we're older and so I feel like we can just go hard when we're young you know okay so you guys have no debt you have an emergency fund and you're investing 15% already um we're investing 22% whoa but

you still have a mortgage no no no no to I'm sorry for a

down payment oh so you don't you're

renting yeah okay you're renting but you're also investing 22% but you're also trying to save for down payment that sounds like a lot of things at once to feel any progress well it I mean we're have a decent amount of progress I mean we have like 150,000 save for a down payment wow

so what's stopping you from putting that money down and buying a house well we got married two months ago

so there it is it's just like this is all figuring things out how old are you to yeah I'm 24 and 25 wow that's incredible

okay so here's the deal you guys are in baby step 3B sl4 that's kind of down

payment investing and if you're following the baby steps you would be investing 15% and you could be saving for the down payment now some people like to hunker down and invest nothing to save up even more for the down payment faster you guys already have a giant stash I would continue investing 15% let's dial that back down which would give you 7% of your income back to throw at a down payment correct M

so what if we kept doing that when is your lease up with this uh rental situation uh July okay so what if we

started house hunting early this you know spring summer and we added the 5,000 to you said the bonus is coming in January so you'll have 5,000 there yeah add that to the savings and then we put a giant down payment down on this house because the goal would be let's pay off the house before we crank up investing because to your point you guys have another 35 working years to continue

investing you're going to be multi multi-millionaires so the real question is why is your husband fearful of not having enough because if youve has he crunched the calculators on this I'm guessing he has what do you an investment calculator take what you have in retirement now take what you're investing every month calculate hey by 60 years old we're probably going to have north of $67 million well

I think well I think I'm the one for one thing who's worried about not having but also after we have kids I plan on stop working being a stay home mom and so just trying to set us ourselves up best I think for that situation okay well that would mean we need to get his income up and our expenses down to where we can make that work

because the retirement that won't really be a factor you're not going to be able to dip into that when you're you know 38 years old so I would be focused right now on putting as much of a down payment down to get your mortgage as low as possible which would allow you to stay home because that's a monthly expense until it's paid off yeah that makes total sense

so uh I

I guess I'm on your team of let's put this toward the down payment and let's get this uh house sooner rather than later okay I mean you guys are ready you have an awesome down payment so proud of you guys congrats on uh getting married very exciting times you know what I know you're off the line now Mary but I'm going to send you one year Financial Peace University

and a year the premium version of every dollar to get you guys started I think that will align you and get you on the same page which will be fun can they at least go to dinner I think dinner would be helpful to talk about this everything's better over good food so take that $5,000 and go to a really nice like bonusy dinner and talk

about yeah like that I'm excited for you congrats all right let's get to denell

in Sacramento denell welcome to the show Hi how are you guys doing great how are you I'm doing very well thank you um

so my question today um we are on baby step two working toward paying off our debt and um we we're able to free up um

about $55,000 to put towards some debt but of course as it goes um now we have a water heater out that we're going to have to pay for OU so I haven't yeah I

haven't used that money towards the debt yet um it happened within the same day or so that we were able to get it and um

our house we do have home warranty I'm not quite sure what that's going to pay for yet um and then we also um had a

quote for about $5,000 which is about the money we had so I don't know if this is a silly question or not but um should

I put that money towards the debt and wait and to see how much the water hey is going to cost we do have the, saved in our emergency fund um and hope that

the home warranty covers it or wait to pay off that debt until we find out how much it's going to cost well this time frame is are we talking a week or two to find out uh the plumber that came out said it could take six to 10 days the home warranty people tend to be slow so um

even now we have no hot water they don't care about that gosh it's awful yeah so

we're um we're just waiting around uh we are reaching out to the I would be calling them so often that they are like okay here's your answer yeah um and I take cold shower so

I'd be fine loves it his family hates him but he loves it yeah of course this

happens when the weather starts cooling down I would have been fine with it summer but uh sure well I would I would

hang tight I mean if we're talking six business days what I don't want you to do is you throw the five granded debt and now we know this storm is upon us and then we have to go into debt to cover this hot water heater that would be a bad plan so if we're talking waiting a week to see how this shakes down to see if the warranty is going to cover

it which I hope it does I would fight them tooth and nail cuz you know their job is to make sure they don't pay for it and so I would be looking at that fine print fighting them and getting this thing covered because that is time well spent if it means $5,000 for an hour of your time yeah I guess I'm just I'm curious because if I

if we didn't happen to have this chunk of money that we are blessed

to have right at this moment we would have only had that $1,000 to throw out this and I don't know what we would have done otherwise oh that's true and a lot of people have that hangup with baby step one with a th000 bucks they go hey what if there's an emergency over a th000 well there's a thing you do where you pause the baby steps we're going to stack up cash as fast as possible we're going to sell stuff we're going to get

the side job whatever we have to do to come up with that amount of money and those future paychecks are going to be enough to cover it and that's what happens uh often but what you also you also have to understand the the plumber the plumber is only used to dealing with

people with credit cards and so he's going to look at you and say this is a terrible decision to F to fix this to repair this it doesn't have much time left let's just replace it and you have to change your mindset to we don't have any other money so I want to fix it well I can try to fix it

but it's going to be great because that's all I have right now is $1,000 and so often it's like well I got

to replace it because the plumber said well I'm going to find me a plumber that will come fix this thing whether they duct tape it together as long as my house is safe until I can like Georgia said I'm going to scratch and Claw and sell and do whatever I have to do deliver pizzas and I'm going to hate every second of it but I'm doing it for hot water right

and then at the end of the month I'm going to figure figure this thing out or the end of two months or whatever it's going take so be sure to shop around negotiate tell them hey do you have a cash discount hey I'll leave you a great review in the neighborhood Facebook group if you can bring the price down and if you work that kind of magic

and you're not too desperate which I know it's hard not to be in times like this then uh we'll get through this but I'm glad if they know how to install one right um I could put some we could put a message up here and somebody in this building knows how to do it right 100% figure it out yeah we're wishing you the best andell thank you

so much for the call and uh best of luck with that debt payoff and the water heater that puts this hour of the Ramsay show in the books I'm George camel he's Dr John deloney we'll be back before you know [Music]

it hey George camel here if you love the show and you want a deeper dive on your money Journey we've got a Weekly Newsletter that gives you helpful articles and tips on following the Ramy way just go to ramsy solutions.com today to sign up for the newsletter again that's ramsy solutions.com to sign up for our Weekly

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George Campbell joined by Dr John deloney this hour this is your show America so call in at aa825 5225 and I'm in an incredibly good mood today because I'm wearing my deloney shirt in honor of Dr John delon's book launch week month if year it feels like

you're one of those girls who's like it's my birthday month and I'm like that's not a thing you get one day it's my book day but this entire last month has felt like I feel like your book coming out I've heard more about your book Drama than mine drama yes I didn't

know about the drama do you like this color what's the right color what do you think about the backside what about this I I don't know about the like the amount of decisions that go into making a book it's unbelievable so and the amount of second guessing you put on decisions that you've already made is is pretty amazing but now you know what it's like to walk through

the world feel like delone feels good doesn't it well I feel insecure you feel insecure I don't know if it's the shirt I feel exposed and both powerful and insecure I think I think the exposure part is um that's a big piece's really a short sleeve kind of guy but but I think you uh both I don't have the muscle mass both insecure and uh feel powerful now

you know how I feel that's the deloney way well hey we are here for you America and Eric is here in Witchita on the line Eric what's going on hey how's it going going guys doing well how are you good good I have a

quick question so uh my wife and I my

beautiful wife and I have been uh it's a great caveat hey here's what I guarantee he's about to do he's about to say he thinks something and she thinks different am I right and you think she's wrong absolutely yes yes you're right and I think she's listening so I'm I'm so guys say my beautiful wife and women say my amazing husband when they're about to say and

I think they're an idiot the other person's an idiot so go ahead tell us how your beautiful wife may be an idiot Eric all right you said it not me but uh

smart man we had um we've been doing the

steps and we are now down to just my

student loans which is about $9,000 left

um and she has an opinion that we should

not pay the student loans and we should just start saving that do the three to six months of of expenses because there

is um a very high chance that her car is

going to go out within the next year or

so uh and we don't we just have a, of

emergencies so I don't know um what you guys think about that should we just tackle the how much money do you have in

the bank uh probably about we have about

3,500 bucks okay so you got a little more than that baby step one emergency fund and what's your income uh 150 a year oh my gosh so these

student loans are paid off within a few months Max the the student loans we if

we really buckle down we could we could do it within three to four months I think three months so 90 days from now the student loans are gone you said her car could die within a year El

could we're going to have a presid presidential election you know what that means it's all going down Russia could invade and after that a meteorite could come and after that yeah can her car not also be repaired I mean it's it's pretty old this is 2006 um and she I mean she'll

drive it until it doesn't go anymore that's the type of woman she is but uh I

think we use if she's that scared she should use that fire to fuel the debt-free journey to go we got to get out of debt fast we get the emergency fund fast then we got to start the car save fun fast because I know this thing's going to be dead in a year versus leap progging you said hey we're doing these steps well the steps are in order for a reason

they work and if you try to do multiple at once it doesn't work it let's be honest though I get how how much debt have y'all paid

off uh we we owned a business uh so it

was it's been about it was about 35,000 uh but I sold my business as as

well so that actually helped us a lot okay I sold I sold my business and then uh uh paid everything else off how long have y'all been chipping away at this uh about well um really about three years

okay because our business was kind of going downhill and so I I remember I

remember like year two year three Mark we've been hammering away and hammering away and hammering away at this and felt like I should get my new car

now and then my wife and I were just at

Zero right we just we did all that work to just get to zero and now you're telling me I got to go two more years and save up to buy the car that I want which is a used car by the way so I get

her looking down the barrel of are you serious right now like we have nine we're going to go crazy and get this thing done in 90 days and then we start the savings thing all over again from my car is this just our life and so I think

there's some truth to just sitting and going yeah that does stink man we worked really hard for three and a half years we've grind and we scratched and clawed and we paid everything off and now we got to scratch and Claw again to save up to buy you new car right that is hard and that's

reality Eric what is y'all's take-home pay is it about nine grand uh it's nine grand yeah she yeah I

make uh 60,000 and she makes and we're

not investing right now for paying off debt right right okay so making 9 Grand a month can you find 4,500 bucks can you take half of that and throw it at the debt and be done in two months if you buckle

down we could I would have to look at it again but but think about that then in

two months you free up 4,500 bucks you were throwing at it plus that student loan payment that means 9 months from then you'd have 40 Grand Grand saved you'd have your emergency fund plus enough to get an upgrade for the car right so that I mean we're talking less than 12 months from now and so if you start to paint that picture and go hey honey I hear

you I'm not trying to be combative here I'm just saying look at these numbers we can do this and do it quickly if we buckle down do you have something you could put on the table I'm not going to go out to eat for lunch with my workmates for a month I'm gonna make lunch yeah I mean I could I could do that I'm just wondering if there's something

you could put on the table that says hey I'm in I'm all in she serious all all in I want these student loans gone out of my life here George and I say it's ludicrous to not pay student loans and start saving up for a car for another car that might die in a year that's Madness you've got debt staring you right in the face pay it off get rid of that stuff um

but man I I

think the conversation about okay here's instead of presenting the all right we're gonna we're just gonna go crazy for 90 more days I love George's plan like let's let's sit down and come up with a 12-month plan here's how this works if I buckle down I'm gonna make this commitment because I know you're going to need a car but I got to get these student loans out of our house

we have to get these student loans out of here let's make a plan and then in 12 months we're going to look up and we're going to have emergency fund and you're going to have a new car yeah or maybe not a new car but a used new car A new to you car right right it's that simple

and it's that hard Eric I wish it was a

shortcut yeah math and reality are no f sometimes sometimes they're awesome but we feel like funy duddies over here being like you got to just pay but that's how it works and it's worked for so many people we believe in it that much we're that confident in this plan you got to do it in order with intensity that's the only way it works thanks so much for the call Eric this is the Ramsey [Music]

Show

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel co-host of course of this show but also of smart money happy hour with my friend Rachel Cruz and the George camel YouTube channel which you can check out on the tubes and of course I'm joined by Dr John delone who's got a fantastic show that he hosts right next door to this studio called the Dr John deloney show

and you guys are crushing it over there John you just passed 200,000 subscribers on YouTube I can't catch up man you'll have me caught by the end of the month so it's a losing battle I see what you're doing there but the team's done amazing George Campbell show will pass my show and YouTube subscribers soono well you just launched this like mini documentary episode on your YouTube channel that is amazing yeah

the the the we actually they came to us and said hey we want you to follow somebody for for 90 days and let's let's call your bluff let's see if these little um steps to build CH talk about let's see if this actually works and so we put out a call and we ended up with an incredible guy who came forward and said I'm willing to do film

the whole thing and um and then his wife ends up coming along halfway through the the the the shoot but um what the film team was able to do what this guy was able to do he's just a brave dude man um and they got to see the behind the scenes me answering calls saying I was wrong me going whoa this is a big deal and this not a big deal kind of some inside baseball on how

the coaching process works but um yeah it's pretty incredible go to go to John dooney.com on no I'm sorry go to YouTube

delone and you can check it out it's an amazing um one episode series and um

it's about 28 minutes and it is well worth your time the team did an incred J show yeah they did a great job man that's the start John next up Netflix is calling you all right well John I've got an article here that it made me happy and a lot of people have sent this to me and I shouldn't be as happy as I am but there's those

I Told You So moments that I rarely get and this is one of you love those here here it is from Business Insider here's the headline 95% of the

nft market May now be worthless study finds no to which I retorted they were always worthless there was just people stupid enough to pay for them you mean

um digital clip art is now suddenly not

worth billions John it has a scientific name non-fungible token it's clip art

really fancy clip art fair point that Bill Gates gave us originally for free just for free wow through Microsoft through Microsoft clippy here's some pictures y'all can y'all can have and here we are in 2023 still talking about it uh here here's what it says are nfts dead a recent study looking at the price of thousands of collections seems to suggest the answer is yes and so here's

the report out of 73,000 nft collections the researchers looked at almost 70,000 of them and slightly over 95% had a market cap of zero which is a fancy wave

saying it's worthless so by their estimate almost 23

million people hold these worthless assets this daunting reality should serve as a sobering check on the euphoria that has often surrounded the nft space ouch and 79% of all nft

collections currently remain unsold the surplus of Supply it's digital there's not really a surplus of supply of a digital they claim you know it's it's John this is the one token but here's what nfts really are it's like a treasure map that points to the treasure that you're buying you're buying a URL link that goes to the photo you don't even own the photo John the original artist owns

the photo you own the URL that's a flex on your friends that says I'm the sole owner of this one photo that you can screenshot instantly it's that insane like we thought time shares were insane this is like a sense of ownership of a sense of ownership if you said hey um I discovered a a a pipe that I can drill down into the ground and get water

so all of us don't die I would say cool I would like to I would like to buy into that or if you said hey um I got another drill and I drill down into a reservoir of oil or I created clean energy it's going to be free for everybody so things that provide value to society say I'm going to buy that if you said hey have

I got a deal for you for $4 million I'm going to give you a picture of a link to

a digital picture that you can't really show anybody because it's like not really the thing but you just have to link to it i' be like not even a piece of art like go buy a Picasso I'm all about that hang out art up in your I've got art in my house I deeply value art support local artist but I can't have it like in my house no no no no it's it's not even that kind it's it's an nft

I would just have to say like I don't know I don't know any of the words you're saying and so for that reason I'm out oh boy well you uh

you didn't miss out John fewer than 1% have a price tag above six grand now which is a far cry from the regular million dooll deals of two years ago so much hype and here's the thing the people that were excited about it were the people selling it which I told people I said hey the people like get into nfts if you're going to make them and sell them good for

you if you want to hustle people out of a buck but also but don't buy it thinking it's an investment I'm going to resell it for profit which is the only reason people were buying them anytime somebody drums up something and

like goes a and there's not evidence you're not

like on this show you could say FPU it's an n no there's a Tracker there's 10 million people right it's not just a guy on the street corner going buy my thing it's millions of people there's a debt free screams almost every day like no no I follow the plan and my family's free anytime a group of people are like you should do it too just be weary just be weary because man dude well that's the

nail in the digital coffin John and you can buy a link if you want to see a picture of that digital coffin for the low low price of $6,000 that was or or

the market cap of zero ouch so there you

go there's my segment of I told you so thanks for that all right Ken joins us up next in Orlando Ken welcome to the show hey guys thanks for taking my call sure um my my wife and I have been listening for a long time following the steps and uh we've been lately we've been discussing baby step number six and every now and then I'll hear in the other room of the house we're debt free

so I knew I had to call you guys to really discuss um my mortgage and paying

that down okay uh because because I'm more about the investment side and she really wants to get rid of the uh the debt so just to just a brief background

we're both in our 50s I'm 54 she's 51

and I'm a physician she's an occupational therapist and we have four kids in their 18s and early 20s essentially cool I have I bought a house

um after it was in 2021

uh is $1.5 million and I was able to put

just about a million down and I took out a conventional loan at 525 525,000 at

2.5% 20-year term so there's 17 years

left and about $120,000 worth of interest on the on the

number four side of things I've been investing every month into mutual funds which has grown nicely over the years and I could afford to take out approximately

350,000 to pay off a significant amount

of that uh what's left on the mortgage um let's 17 years four what's

the balance yeah 474 th000 okay and you're saying you have non-retirement investing happening and like a brokerage account yeah okay what's in there mutually index funds about 450 to

500,000 whoa so you could pay off the house today well yeah I don't want to go down to zero though but yeah I put a good that's the question because your wife wants to go down to zero and free up that mortgage payment but you're what you're seeing is but babe we could make so much more leaving it in these mutual funds the way the Market's going right

that's the argument yeah over the years it's traditionally gotten seven to eight% yeah that's a that's truly a hard thing to Grapple with for the folks who love to see those numbers go up and we love investing around here but are you already investing in retirement yeah I have fully funded 401K

it's it's done very well amazing and you're in your 50s what's your household

income uh gross uh 450 to 500 so riddle

me this could you not invest could you not get back up to 500,000 in a brokerage account within a few years Max two years without a mortgage payment I don't know about two years but well without a well yeah no mortgage payment could you put 200 out of 500 into that brokerage account yes there we go I yeah I would

double my investment monthly on a monthly basis pretty quickly yeah you're going to retire a multi multi-millionaire Ken and in the meantime I want you to have peace and freedom and owe nobody anything and allow yourself to enjoy these moments with these kids before they're all out of the house go on Amazing vacations

out baby pay that house off and remember if you hate being debt free no mortgage payment just go get yourself into more debt you they'll always give you a loan against that house Ken so uh I I hope you become debt free I think you're going to enjoy it I don't think you'll look back man thanks so much for the call this is the ramsy [Music]

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Ramsey [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney this hour give us a call at aa825 5225 and if you're wondering why

I'm wearing a shirt that just says deloney on it it's because I'm here to support my friend John deloney during his book launch week we're all very excited about it around here uh and I'm excited we have a launch party tomorrow here at the uh Event Center it's going off man can't wait I uh we've never done one of these we haven't not with the level of complexity slash level of um

work I still have to do in the next 24 hours to get this thing off we are throwing a rager on the clock going be pretty wild I'm excited about it well 12 bring your plugs it's GNA be loud yes

all right let's get to Carol in Indianapolis Carol how's it going good thank you how can we help

today uh my husband and I are debt free

net worth about a million we have six months emergency savings congratulations thank you thank you after seeing multiple homes over the last few years we bought a very thought after lot so much so we're being contacted by like private Builders asking if we want to sell but we're currently very happy in what we thought would be a temporary home but we are growing out of it my main question is is

now a good time to build since I owned a

lot do I need a realtor for custom build

um we have about 75 grand saved up for

what we think we're going to build okay have you started reaching out to builders because that's really the only people you need to work with at this point oh yeah you think it's a good time to build well the right time to build is when you have the money and so that's the beauty of of having that Financial Freedom so if you're asking is the right time to build is as far as

the economy goes rates or what cuz you guys are going to take on a mortgage to do this econom we we would have to I mean our current home is worth about 4805 that we have that's I don't know if

we should rent it make money out of it no please don't please don't take money out of it please please please please please please don't take money out of it don't put one house on the Block for another house that's a way to lose them both okay but we would still need to take out a small mortgage maybe 200 Grand okay so if you if you sold the

house yes so you sell the house you get you know let's say 440 out of it MH and then

you have your 75 that puts you at a little over 500 and you're saying hey it's going to cost 700 all in we take out a mortgage for 200 of that it might be more closer to eight now that I think about it okay it's just so expensive well what's your household income our household income it varies

from month to month but I could say on average about 12,000 fantastic so let's

say hey we really need to keep this mortgage around 3,000 and if we're going to do that on a 15-year we can start crunching the numbers to go are we ready for this build are we ready to take on an $800,000 project or do we need to wait

and save up another 50 Grand 100 Grand to make this make sense right we could easily hold off in this house for no more than two years okay but it's not it's not too early to do the homework and go hey let's contact a builder let's start to see what this would actually cost let's see how much mortgage we could actually afford based on our income and that will give you some actual facts versus just I think

and maybe and I feel I like to have some real numbers on it the fact okay and do

I need a realtor for a custom build no you own the land you're G to have to I would recommend getting several Builders and having them give you a bid and have some sort of idea of what you want the house to look like and maybe you and your husband can go through plans online or hand them to a builder and say Here's what we're interested in or look around

and ask people at your local church whoever who have used a custom builder we had a great experience we had a terrible experience and then interview them at your house they work for you

right and then ask give you Allin cost and go through that whole process now the spot where a realtor could come in Carol is their expertise their relationships with builders in the area their negotiation skills uh project oversight resale considerations things like that I would still say hey there's a lot of value in having a realtor involved but do you need a realtor in order to build a home

if you on the lot not necessarily how do you say goodbye to them since they helped us by B lot and our current home ah so are they wanting in on this because you already have a current realtor that you love yes she helped us by our current home and the lot and she's mentioned when you're ready to build contact me contact me and I don't I haven't had

the guts to say goodbye well so maybe this call her and ask her what does a realtor help me do what's the value how are you making money from this what is this relationship look like and then if it's if it doesn't make sense for you guys just say hey thank you so much you've been amazing but we're going to continue forward without a realtor on this one

and maybe you do work with her and maybe it's a huge blessing but I'm just if you're the question is do I absolutely need one no okay I'm saving up to have some work done at my place and it has never

occurred to me to call a realator maybe that's on Me Maybe Maybe I'm Wrong on that one but that's never occurred to me um I have uh reached out to several folks who would be either General Contractors or Builders to come out and help me and if I did keep her I would pay her out of my pocket correct it would you pay a percentage of the total build yeah yeah that's what I'm curious about what how

the deal would be structured if she's willing to negotiate on that but you're not buying a house she's not finding you a house she's not searching through MLS and she's not putting you into a system um it's not a traditional

realtor relationship she yeah so maybe

you're going to pay her 05% or 1% to help find you the right Builder and I don't think she's going to be serving as a general contractor making sure everything that what the Builder's going to do and so um I don't exactly know what that relationship would be but if you have a good relationship with her she's been trustworthy sounds she like she's been awesome sit down

and say like what would you bring to this equation because otherwise I was going to call start calling Builders and begin to thumb through them that way love it best of luck Carol that's a big project excited for you guys all right Christian joins us in Los Angeles Christian welcome to the show hey thanks for taking my call sure how can we help hey so um I'm a I'm 27

I

live at home debt free um at my parents house uh so I have no bills uh they don't pay they don't charge me any rent um I'm currently making gross 80,000 a year awesome in savings I have 80 ,000

cash 130 liquid and I'm look I don't invest in anything except for just my uh my pension plan um so I'm not going to be able to touch that anytime soon but um

I'm looking to invest essentially and I looked at the market CDs and or if I were to throw it at the stock market into like a mutual fund um I do plan on

using my money to purchase a home within the next two years um once I have enough for for a down payment um which is looking to be about it's gonna be about 150,000 for what I'm looking at okay in my range so I'm looking at my money is not doing anything for me right now essentially it's like I said it's 880,000 sitting in the bank um I'm when

I say liquid I purchased a truck cash um just because I never had a new vehicle and honestly I'm considering just selling it I'll get 50 50,000 for it right now so yeah you said 130 liquid that's including if you sold the truck exactly I have 880,000 cash though and so I'm looking to just invest and I'm not I'm can't buy a home right now I I mean

the house the prices are just crazy um they're not going to go down man I hate to I know everyone says that they're not um yeah I I understand that I'm looking to I guess my long-term goal is like my Five-Year Plan essentially is I'm gonna just you know stay at home not pretty much pay no bill just my minimal regular bills but five years can I push back on that why um

I know it makes economic sense I

get that but man you got to go out and live your life you got to learn how to pay bills you got to learn how to live on your own have your friends yeah no I I get that um I'm just I don't want to yeah I can go out and get like a cheaper uh condo I don't want to get wrapped up in HOAs I guess I'm right now the home prices that I'm looking at it's like, you're you're a 27 28y Old

Man Grand a year living with his mom

yeah you're saying I should just go on rent yes because listen you this is this is a the math problem you're you're right the math problem I am able to save this much money at my mom and dad's house yes there is the psychosocial development side of this where you learn how to be an adult how to be a grown man

and lean on yourself that discomfort of having a place making the calls having to set up your own electricity call it when the Bill's wrong all of those things are about being an adult going to your neighbors and saying hey we all turn the music down those are all skills your body needs to learn that you don't get when Mommy's doing your laundry for you at 30 years of age

so Christian sell the truck too much of your world get something reasonable don't invest this money put it in a high yield savings account because that time Horizon is way too short my [Music]

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friend

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ramsey personality George camel joined by my colleague Dr John deloney strictly colleagues sometimes friends best friends and we are here for you America the number to call 8825 5225 5 we love having a

conversation with you helping you take the right next step with your money your life your relationships all of it Taylor's up next in Milwaukee Taylor welcome to the show hey how's it going guys great how are you you're a little muff speak directly in your phone for me a little muffled is that better perfect okay um so my fiance and I have

been struggling to pay off a little bit of our credit card debt and I was thinking the other night she works she makes about 14 1450 a month take-home

and she's paying we're paying $1,200 a month in daycare um and so I thought to myself why we do do instacart um and and

door Dash and stuff on the side um and I thought to myself why don't you just quit your job put your two we notice in she's starting Cosmetology School in the spring anyway so she's going to have to be leaving her job when you quit your job um and just do instacart door Dash

uh stuff like that uh full time um with

our son staying at home more with him uh

and it's kind of funny I was listening to you guys a show a couple days ago and I kind of feel like a little desperate right now um and I picked up something

that stuck with me and I said that when you're feeling desperate you're gonna make a you're gonna be stupid you're gonna make a stupid Choice yes good call man so I thought man you know maybe I could get on here and talk to you guys and see how you guys feel about this what do you feel desperate about brother just so we're current

so listen to the show we've been paying off we've been throwing all of our extra pennies um at our credit cards to we

have just over 20 about 20 $23,000 in

debt um and we want to take care of it because we want to buy a house so we've been throwing all of our extra pennies at it well I had to pay for books um for

my school I'm uh apprentice electrician ibw and books came do so I went to pay for my books and I thought I was adding my credit card payment but I paid the whole thing so that was a couple weeks ago and so the last couple weeks we've been kind of literally living paycheck to paycheck working out of a negative bank account trying to catch up because we totally did not expect that because then a couple days later her our payment for

daycare um glitched and it double paid

that week so we paid out like $1500 extra that we were not expecting that week and so we're finally just that was a couple weeks ago finally just tomorrow you know when she gets paid uh we won't be working out of a negative account we can get back on track you know working at her debt um she just got into a car

accident Friday so which it might help it wasn't her it wasn't her fault someone pulled out the front of her um so in a roundabout way we might not have

to pay her car loan anymore you know and we'll just buy a beater C because God I don't want to pay I don't want uh another car so the 23,000 total between the car loan and the credit cards no I'm not including that car loan

into this if we include that it's up over 40 but I don't think we're gonna have to I think yeah I think eliminated

my income right now is400 a month um

take-home um we I work a lot of overtime

with my job uh and it's temporarily

permanent over time I guess because with

being a a those hold on those are opposite words with overtime you're bringing up 2,400 a month no no no with overtime it's like 3,300 a month and it's that's consistent for I

know but that's 500 extra dollars right

I'm sorry 33900 extra dollars but I wanted to use I I don't want to count on that overtime because at any point it could get eliminated right here okay you've got you've got money chaos but let me just cut right to it dude underneath that you've got other chaos

what is well so a couple years ago we wanted

to buy we really wanted to buy a house so we thought we could move into my parents house and save up some money uh well that didn't work Co hit and this

hit and we got Frugal with the money and it just it just underneath that what's

underneath that um here's what you sound like to me okay you sound like a dad you got one kid or two kids two two

kids is this woman your wife um no we're engaged we've we've

been engaged for about eight years

why we I don't know we just have so when

we hold wait we don't have time to go through the whole thing here's what it sounds like yeah yeah yeah yeah you sound like a guy who is fraying at the edges in a way that makes me makes me nervous for you the money is symptomatic IC of a

life of a guy playing whack-a-mole with his life yeah can I I'm going to ask you a hard question you don't have to answer it are you using right now um I I drink no yes here's how I

know that the way you are living your

body was not designed to handle the

wack-a-mole stress you put on it and you have to have something to shut that system down either you have something to speed up that system to keep up with it or you got to have something to shut it down I'm a I'm a I'm a very anxious

person yes I am yes what you need my man is to uh you

have to have a plan but you got to have something beneath all this dude let me

ask you what are you running

from failure I guess yes why what are

you scared of man you have a woman who loves you you got two healthy kids

yeah I mean honestly this might sound kind of crazy but I've always been commitment I'm afraid of commitment I've always been really good at everything I do but I can't ever just stick with one thing okay but when you get lasered in on something I bet you're freaking amazing aren't you I'm enjoying my career right

now yeah that's right I am but are you the kind of guy that's going to get certified and get a great job and six months later you're going to be like oh look over here uh um no okay I can't I can't so here's the

deal 33 I don't want to start over again I love I love what I do I really do that's amazing that's amazing you are I need you I want you to

do something crazy when we get off this call and it's going to sound insane okay I want you to make a fist and I want you to put it right in the middle of your chest and I want you to walk into your bathroom and shut the door and say these words out loud I love this guy

and I want you to stare yourself in the

eyes and my I'd be willing to bet money that that's going to be hard for you to

do because right now you have a woman telling you I love you so much I'll I will play your little commitment gymnastics even though we're together for eight years because she loves you that much and you got two kids you love you got parents who are like dude move on in you have a boss that's like do we want you so bad around here we're going to give

you extra time cuz we need you and your skill set and your character around here the only person I hear in your life that doesn't believe in you is you and that has to stop today you got

two little boys you got two little kids looking up to you man okay I just called an electrician and spent an ungodly amount of money you know what I looked at that guy and I said I said I trust you to take care of my family because you have a skill set I don't have please help and he came in he said I got you that's what you do for guys like me yeah every day I do that

but you have to address the drinking and you have to address the anxiety and you have to address this

pretend I'm not getting married because I don't like commitment but I'm with the same person I've built a family in a home but sort of with this woman marry

her and be done with that so your body

can rest right and then we give you a plan

on the money we'll give you a plan on the money man just got to follow the plan okay does that I mean does that sound good it does yeah Taylor I don't think

the solution here is man if she just stays home our problems are over you're just trading one problem for another Wacko and it's not going to get you out of the money mess it's not going to be a big dent in the financial hole you guys have created but you got to get serious about this if she can get her income up that will help the problem we're going to hook

you up listen I'm going to send you building the non anxious life my new book I want you to follow it the second thing is I'm going to send you every dollar the best money app for yall two to use together for a year for free I'm going to send you the FPU lessons for free but y'all got to do them as a couple and make some commitments

and I want you to send me a wedding invitation in the next 30 days game on my brother I'll go with you John it'll be fun Taylor thanks so much for the call hang on the line Austin will pickup we'll get you all those goodies man wishing you guys the best that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the [Music]

books hey it's John delone co-host of the ramsy show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsy show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to Ramy solutions.com

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show [Music]

live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George camel co-host of smart money happy hour and of course leading the charge on the George cam YouTube channel joined by Dr John deloney host of the Dr John deloney show you catch all those shows on the Ramy Network and uh

and a lot of other places as well we're pretty pretty much everywhere these days all over everywhere so give us a call at 8825 5225 if you want to jump into the conversation if you've got that question about money life relationships whatever it may be we'll give you our best and sometimes it's not great but it's what you got free but it is free it won't cost

you nothing all right Nick starts us off in Salt Lake City Nick welcome to the show hey um so yeah I I've had a pretty

big life change recently as far as income goes about a year ago I was making $2,000 a month working at a steel plant and then my brother-in-law told me that he thought I could sell and it turns out I could and my income has now since quintupled I don't know it would take me five years to do what I I mean it's it's an insane jump and my wife and

I are trying to manage it and I feel like we're hemorrhaging and we haven't saved enough considering how much we've made congratulations congrats so what are we talking are we talking 10K a month closer to 20 whoa congrats is that your

take-home pay my boss thinks uh for tax

I'm not sure what my that's the other thing I got to figure out taxes in this too and so I just oh they're not taking taxes out nope nope I'm technically a

self-employed 1099 okay so you better be putting away 30% of that every single month in a savings account I hav putting away so we

save so we have between our taxes and

then our church donation we put side about 45% okay and then we live off of

about well our budget puts us at 10% but

I feel like we're not doing that is what we're living off of and then we try to save the other 45 but that's not what's been happening how how long has this been going on about six months okay um cut yourself

a whole bunch of slack okay yeah like this is this rare

air congratulations y'all had a fun run and now you got to go be adults and it's all good okay yeah don't live in the a

Shucks a because what you are experiencing is the upside of sales what you haven't experienced is when our

Congressman decide to throw tennis balls at each other just for fun and shoot each other with Nerf guns and shut everything down the other side of sales right you're like a farmer now yeah and you farm no money no money no money then crops and then no money right so that's awesome you just got a plan for the future so 6 months youall had a wild time good times and now we got to be grown-ups right yeah okay so give us a

picture of your financial situation do you guys have any debt you have money in savings so we have a little the only debt we've brought on was on the advice of our accountant to try and bring our tax Li our tax liability down um we bought my wife a new car um before that she had a little car that we had paid off and I have a truck that I have paid off your accountant told you to go get a car loan he told us to get a loan so we

could not necessarily a loan but to buy a car so we could use it as a ride off oh my gosh dude is Michael Scott your accountant like how did you think this was a good idea that was it's what I've had a lot of people around me that they said that's what they did and so that's what we kind of thought we should do you need different grounding necessarily but yeah okay what's the car loan um it is 32,000 okay the good news

is you have an amazing income and you can pay the this thing off really fast and it's now not too big of a portion of your world 60 days you were making two grand a month I would be like sell this car today 60 days yeah 6 Z got it okay 60 days you

have you have to make very focused goals with your money right now you're in baby step two you have a th000 bucks in the bank I assume you have a lot more than that in the bank right now 15 in the

bank 15 of the bank so this car loan can already get cut in half today and then with the next few paychecks the bank I guess if you include I I won't talk about the tax account but yeah 15 and saving yeah tax account doesn't that's that is Untouchable we don't touch it don't touch it don't touch it it does not exist yes until tax time and they go hey you owe $60,000 in taxes and instead

of going oh my gosh you went okay yeah we save for that great yeah so we're going to pay off this car as soon as possible then we're going to stack up three to six months of expenses in an emergency fund that we also don't touch unless there's a true emergency yeah and that's what that's what this money is for because we live off of about including the car about 2500 a month because our rent is only $800 great so

this will help accelerate you to Baby Steps 456 now are you in a home you said

you're renting you want to buy a home one day we want to buy a home next year right now the situation we're in we got um we got fortunate I suppose um our my

wife's grandparents have a house that they it's a 42 that they rent us and so we're in a 800 bucks your Salt Lake City no well we're close to Salt Lake okay Nick you all are winning life right now you falling through the a glitch in The Matrix man this is your chance to get a hit that's I yeah I mean it's just

I I mean I just learned I have a talent in sales I mean I've broken every record this company had and it just was it's a lot to handle but also but six months

you can have a lot of talent or you could have just gotten real lucky yeah that too I don't know that's

the thing right both so it's probably a little bit of both and so um George tell me if I'm I'm crazy here I almost sense a need for you guys you and your wife to roll back for maybe just say

we're going to do a 90day Sprint but roll back some of the gazelle

intensity remember what it felt like to be broke and get that laser

focused yeah because if you don't you're gonna wake up in a mess yeah you're gonna buy a house that you can't afford you're buy a house based on 20,000 bucks a month and then the Builder's going to be like what are you doing you're going to your income's going to keep going up and you're going to buy a house based off $30,000 a month and someone's GNA tell

you you got to get a card to right off too and you're gonna get a BMW and next thing you know you're gonna be Dave Rams you be broke yeah so here's the deal you got to keep living like you make $2,000 a month

for the next six months months until you're out of this hole you're in a great place you have a financial Foundation you're investing 15% you're saving money towards that down payment cuz you have like a fake life right now paying 800 bucks a month in rent making $20,000 a month utilize this while you can instead of the YOLO Vibes that you've been putting out and you will be in such a great place financially six months from now me

and George tried to convince people for three years the government is not charging you any interest on your student loans this is there's never been a better time in human history to pay them off than right this second your payments are on sale and 1% I have zero student debt I know but I'm saying 1% of America took our advice oh yeah the other 99 are right

now going oh God what are we gonna do similar to you if you for six months pretend that y'all are broke and you get an enti an emergency fund you pay off this a car get a new accountant go to

ramsy solutions.com tax get a new accountant for God's sakes um fire Michael scottt but you do this for 6 months you owe nobody anything you have six months emergency fund built up and youall starting a house fund brother your whole world is different and so is your marriage everything's different congratulations man never do it for the write off that's just life advice for you America this is the Ramsey [Music]

Show [Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Dr John deloney and if you haven't heard our first ever money and marriage getaway is happening October 19th through the 21st right here in Nashville Tennessee just up the hill from our headquarters at our brand new Ramsey Event Center and I'm so stoked about this event and I found out John I'm going to be a part of

it did you know that I fought hard I made the lineup to not have you on the lineup but they're bringing you AB board well John delone and Rachel Cruz have notoriously headlined this event for years now but this time it is a full weekend getaway people are traveling from all over the country to hang out and I you're going to be talking about sex and intimacy which I'm excited to don't misunderstand John

they will notc to hear your your sessions or budgeting which is very

similar yeah both have been known to cause great joy I'm pretty clear on the minute by minute I saw recently that I'm taking baby steps one two and three Jade will be covering some budgeting and you will be talking about I love the fact that I said sex and intimacy and you were blushing well I was trying to think of a joke I could tell on air that was familyfriendly

we don't have yeah so it was tough but I will can I tell you the name of my talk I'll be giving yes spice it up pillow talk the dirty secrets of

budgeting I was very proud of that one and it involves pillows so that's one

reason one re those aren't

pillows excellent George we're going to have so much fun this really is such a blast and you and your spouse will be equipped with tools to cast a vision for your family set goals create a life you both love and at the money marriage getaway you will have the get this undistracted time to disconnect from everyday life and reconnect with your spouse there's going to be interactive sessions Rachel Cruz Dr John deloney Jade warshaw myself we're going to be your guides to discuss money communication boundaries intimacy

and tickets cost $799 for this multi-day event for couples so if you're out of debt and you've got room in the budget please please join us we're going to have so much fun October 19th through the 21st come make it a party in Nashville Tennessee ramseys solutions.com events we've still got some tickets left that's the place to go Ramy solutions.com events it's going to be different than Ramy events in

the past for a couple different things one is it's not just going to be us um doing keynote after keynote after keynote very different format there's a whole lot of time of access like here's what we do in our

house let's have Q&A let's talk a lot of behind the scenes a lot of Q&A a lot of activity time let's figure this stuff out yeah so a lot of working this through the goal is is that um when we leave when all of us leave we have some tools to go home and make our marriages better and we have some time to practice this with experts

and other people while we're there and there's going to be other people practicing too so you're not going to be by yourself and it's not going to be me and Rachel and you and

Jade do what it's not going to be me and you and Rachel and Jade what' you say Jame I thought producer James was talking trash James is doing the sex talk that was my bad J James will be talking about sex and intimacy okay but it's not it you're going to come away having spent considerable on of time with us we're not talking at you we're talking with

you we're all working on our marriages too so it's going to be something that we're all going to do together I'm pretty excited about it stoked on this event and at that point I will be the dad of a two-month-old so maybe I'll do a talk on parenting I'll be an expert by you are an expert you are an expert show you how to change a diaper like you've never seen

before this is going to be fun I bet your diapering skills are A+ I try and I'm a little OCD John A little I try to get the Ruffles out I try to make the the little flaps even it's all right we'll get there let's get to the calls before James takes us off the air Georgia is in Chicago Georgia welcome to the ramsy show thank you hello what's going

on um I bought a car the end of July and

I was lied to about the price of the car um it was some from someone that I go to church with and um I signed the

contract without looking at it because I trusted this man and now I can't afford this car okay tell me more what do you mean you were lied to about the cost so they said it was a certain price and you paid that price yes they told me on the phone it was 25,000 okay um and I had gone to

take a trip two days after I bought it to North Carolina there was some issues with the car and out of frustration I was looking at the paperwork I got from the the sales and noticed that they had

charged me $7,000 more for the card than what I was told okay how I'm so confused as to how

you walked out of there having paid

$32,000 that wasn't a red flag to you like it came out how did you pay for the car um I went to my credit union but like I said it was from someone from my church

and I trusted him so after we had discussed you know the cost and their and all the taxes and everything and the

3,000 I was going to get out of my old car I kind of figured it would take me down to about 22,000 for the car so after discussing all this with him and signed a contract without reading it because again I trusted this man so it was out of the frustration when I pulled the paper out of my glove box um I noticed that it was 32,000 not

25,000 for the actual price of the car or did they tack on fees

warranties what made it 32 actual price what did he say when you called it he told me that they had had two

other Ford Escapes on the lot and probably just got it mixed up so what are they going to do to make it right they ain't G to do nothing I've contacted multiple I I bet

you I have called 30 lawyers and because I signed that contract this has nothing do with lawyers this has to do with have you gone up to meet in person with management not angry and not enraged but say hey this salesman is a friend of mine he told me this number he admitted that they mixed it up he admitted that they mixed up the cars I want the car that I discuss with the salesman because you all switch the cars on me yes I did and they still refused to

do anything about it even if the salesman would have told the the the

manager that he told me that they still refused to do anything about it okay and you've talked to attorneys and they say sorry yes okay so if you have a a legal

professional telling you their ethical duty is to not take your money because you don't have a case that means you don't have a cas case and sometimes they'll tell you we don't know that you have a case but we think we can win this let's figure something out and what they've all told you is honey we're not going to take your money it would be unethical for us to take your money what does that mean

you found yourself in a quandry and so I want you to do me a favor okay as hard as this is going to be I want you for a while to forget about that man that you said you trusted because that doesn't factor into the situation that you found yourself in now okay did he do you wrong yes did he lie yes did he not protect you whatever

but you said the words I kind of figured and then I signed a contract and that's that as you as an adult have to say I also signed a contract without looking at the final numbers I did take his word but I didn't do my due diligence also and here I sit with this thing and now I got to figure out what to do is that cool cuz what here's what you're doing that anger

and that rage that you have however Justified right it is he's off doing his thing it's only poisoning you right yes

so let's do our best to set that down however righteous and unjust it is you

got to deal with a car that you can't afford So when you say you can't afford it what does that mean um it's actually the price of the car

was 32,000 but by the time you I attach

a warranty on that I'm up to 38,000 now

what is the loan amount um if I wait seven years $448,000

no not if you wait seven years what was the loan amount you took out uh 38 okay and what is your

income uh it's 31 uh 3100 a month okay

and what is the car worth

today um I'm going to guess around

25,000 okay here's the deal you bought

too much car anyways even if it was2 5,000 and so here's what you can do you could probably get rid of that warranty and they can refund you for that you can leave Yelp reviews you can call the local news and get him to a story but at the end of the day you got to realize I got to pay a stupid tax I played a giant role in this conundrum and you might

have to sell it and eat the cost of that and come up with the difference to get rid of this loan and get a reasonable car but you sure learned your lesson you're always going to read the fine print of every single thing you sign for the rest of your life and I'm sorry that you had to learn it a hard way we're hoping for the best for you hoping this can get resolved from this dealership Georgia thanks for the call this is the Ramsey [Laughter] [Music]

[Music]

[Music]

Show

[Music]

[Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show hey if you enjoy this show please consider doing something that costs you very little time or money and that is consider subscribing to the show leaving a review where you're listening and sharing it with a friend it's one of the best ways to share the show we have a marketing budget of of close to zero because you guys are the marketing budget

because you're naturally talking about this sharing this hey you got to check out this clip you got to listen to this episode I listen to the Ramsey Show and podcast wherever you're listening tell people about it it helps a ton and we so so appreciate we want to spread this message to as many people as possible in the next year all right let's get back to the phones Sean joins us in Durham up

next Sean welcome to the Ramsey show Howdy thanks for having me

sure what's going on um so my wife and I

had an impass on some financial decisions and since we got ourselves into clear using ramsy Solutions you know 20 years ago we figured we' we'd call y'all to try and try and help us with this dispute all right I'm team Sean George's team wife let's go we'll defend both of your honors so um we've got a daughter that's finishing up high school um looking at college career field that she's looking at is probably a graduate School type thing um

and just looking at the schools and looking at the cost of housing um I'm looking at it and I'm thinking you know what I'd rather just buy her a place and you know build on an investment and my wife's looking at that decision and suggestion and going we don't take out any more debt until our home our own home is completely paid off and you know looking at

the baby steps looking at all the advice to the years we're just trying to figure out if we're in the same place or if that's something we should be be considering man John is regretting choosing your team at this point I am too dang it we were so close

man your wife's right Sean your wife's right so you're seeing this on paper right you're looking at on paper going man we're going to spend a th000 bucks a month for the next four years six years

might as well get some Roi out of this is that the idea an RO Roi but also

possibly a place she could live in long term um you know where going to an investment in my kids um you we're looking at uh North Carolina Wilmington

out on the coast okay so a few hours from you guys how far is that it's about two two and a half maybe

maybe three hours on a bad day which most most days are bad days when people want to go to the beach okay so let's say HVAC goes out at this place are you driving three hours to go fix it no we're hiring someone to take care of that okay so that's going to be something to think about as aan on that answer what kind of question was that it's a possibility people don't want to pay

the property management fees and what is the cost of rent out there let's say she lived on campus or does she plan on living on campus um I mean I'm we're we're weighing the cost right now my my fear is what if she gets some Foo like man I'd love to live on campus next year and you're like no I bought you a place you have to live

there and now you're renting to random college kids well and almost every College I know of has a freshman live on requirement is that right um she won't technically be a freshman because of the number of credits she's pulling because she's doing College while she's in high school ah okay so so let's back let's back out of this get to pick Let's back let's back out of

this and look another Direction because I do dude I've lived that life I know the ring board is astronomical particularly the boarding the colleges have make a significant amount of money off the board plan with their Mark Professor so I know too there you go so you know how that game works and so um um so let's do the well what

college do you work at oh you don't have I work at North Carolina Central University okay we could talk offline about that so

sure what do you owe on your house um we owe a 100 Grand we've gotten

it down to 100 how long would it take yall to do a Sprint and get that sucker paid off um our best scenario we for about

three or for about five years we've been chunking like about 20K into it every summer off of my wife's seasonal income so we we've been hitting it hard for a while our best scenario is 3 to 5

years okay um yeah just and and that's not

figuring into the scenario of you know we plan on bankrolling her education yeah that was the other question is is this college completely paid for for sure we we we're going to basically shift into pounding down the house into paying for college Okay so I'm going to say something that's never a fun conversation but it's unfortunately one I've had to have probably 10,000 times in the last 20 years that's I I we overstated that but such it is um you're

a professor your child has said here's what I want to do probably going to end up in grad school that makes sense that's the path her dad took it may even be the path her mom took um both me and my wife went to grad school for a long time both of us have been professors all that and you and I also both both know

that every year millions of people enter

in as freshmen with very clear plans and millions of students every year change plans meet somebody I met a

girl at a church camp just a few weeks before school started and I turned down a full ride to go somewhere else right so it's all over the place what I would hate for you to do if you told me hey I've got cash I want to buy uh a condo and whatever I would say buy it right now awesome but if you saying I'm still trying to pay off my house we're going to shift paying off the house into

helping cash flow college and so we're going to have to take out a second mortgage on a place man that you're leveraging your family at and I hate to say it like this but you know I'm right at the whims of an 18-year-old and that's a I would tell you I wouldn't tell you to do that just for you and your wife if youall wanted to to have a Airbnb or whatever but even

more so man that makes me nervous that

from knowing how many college students I've worked with over the years that have great plans and then Mom gets sick

boyfriend moves my professor quits they shut down the program any number of things happen and suddenly you've got you got a house payment to make and you have a a child who's like well Dad I'm just going to come back home and I'm going to go to Central and all a sudden you're like well what are we going to do now you see what I'm saying right

I just wouldn't do it yep yep and I know how hard that board plan is to God Almighty how hard that board plan is to pay for geez man that hurts it it just it's just yeah I look at all the hard work we've done and

looking at what would be half of what would possibly go into our house is just going out the window well I mean it's it's providing here a place to eat and it's a place to sleep I mean it's not going out the window but I see that you're not you don't have what you project might be a return on this down the road yeah seeing it they for a lot of it like

if if you're going to do right she'd be required to live on campus correct thing so yeah there's no option there's just so many variables here and there's if one thing goes wrong this whole plan falls apart and at 7% interest on top of your current mortgage it's going to add more stress than it's going to be a blessing and I'd rather see her go get a part-time job while she's in school she needs to help pay for some of this I like that game and you know I I I think

kids are resilient sometimes an understatement with my daughter I think full time's good you're a great dad I I don't think this kind of love you man I wish Sean was my dad Sean buy me an investment condo

please I like my dad but I do like your like your heart man and I like just try to think through all this that's fantastic absolutely well John that reminded me on this desk a team member of ours got this a letter for his daughter from discover the Discover at student cash back card she's 18 debt-free this man lives by the Ramsey principles and she's getting marketed all

this very bright pink garbage and uh it's amazing John how they Market to can I tell you when I saw the envelope I thought you were going to embarrass me with like a money marriage Love Letter I'm not kidding I wish nope here's here's the Love Letter John save money while you build your credit history enjoy 0% intro APR on purchases

for 6 months and then it says after that your standard variable purchase APR applies currently 18 to 27% you know how many 18-year- olds know what that is less than 0 they're not looking at that all they see is 5% cash back on Amazon quarterly no interest and here's

what they Market a good credit history could help you buy a car rent an apartment and more start building yours by applying below goodness gracious Predators man this is disgusting Predators but hey the cards are pretty John hey that should be the that should be a segment on the George camel show To Catch a Predator o

and you should read um the fine print from credit card companies credit card oh my gosh uh ads that are praying on certain groups of people military folks elderly folks 18-year-olds everybody yeah hey parents do yourselves a favor intercept this junk mail and shred it

light it on fire and then explain to your kids why they should never sign up for a credit card at 18 years old this is the ramsy

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show

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey show our scripture of the day second Corinthians 4:18 so we fix our eyes not on what is seen but what is unseen since what is seen is temporary but what is unseen is

eternal Al ree said you don't have to focus on everything to be successful but you do have to focus on something good

stuff there Addie joins us up next in Anchorage Addie welcome to the show hey thank you what's going

on all right so me and my husband are in baby four five and six this is a question that if whenever I was paying off my $100,000 in student loan debt I would have rolled my eyes at because we're in a position now where we can financially afford um to get our vehicles fixed however um it feels like

this week has just been one thing after another we have $60,000 in our savings

and a mortgage of 280 we have two paid for cars and one is what I would say

like a beater we got it and we shared it for a year it has $1,000 worth of um

things that need be fixed on it but my husband believes that he can handle that um and so that is our Trailblazer it's 04 and then we have a 2017 Hyundai that

we paid for in cash in 2021 it was kind

of in the um I'm sorry in 20 yeah 2021

it was kind of in the incline of like the appreciation of um cars Ed card

value but we we paid 16,000 yes we paid

16,000 for this 2017 uh Santa Fe Hyundai

and it was Kelly Blue booking for around 21,000 so we felt like we had a good deal we had a mechanic check it out and it has been a good car for us for the past two years since then we've added two kids and this week I have been in the car auto shop place for over six hours with two children under two and so I'm frustrated and we have um today I

was told that in order to get the um Hyundai fix

the one that we have the most invested into it's going to be $5,700 now I understand that this is just one person's quote however I don't imagine that that number will fluctuate too much going to a different auto shop in our area and so me and my husband are

presented with the issue to be able to decide are we going to put in $5,700 in order to get it fixed and it's not like a cosmetic issue it's more like an engine issue or I hope it's not cosmetic for that that's wild yeah yeah no I don't care you should see our Trailblazer and it's like we didn't even know Alaska had radio until we got a new

car and so we we piled through we piled

through our debt and moved up here to do that and so we paid off $100,000 um in a

couple years so we're in a good position um

financially and we have the Savings in order to just go out and buy you said you had 50k in savings we have 60k in savings and that and of that would be our 3 to six months um emergency fund um or expenses um and

so we um we just put like literally last

week put up the pay off the house uh

picture in order to shade off room by room and then we get hit with us so we just trying to decide would you um put

in the money to fix the 16 the Hyundai

which is Kelly weing around $16,000 right now is that with the that need to be made um it would not that would include like if it was just fine and ready to go so this 5700 you could sell it for

16 yes okay and if you don't you're selling it for 10 or less yes got it and you're wondering do

we do this or do we just upgrade the car and sell it as is for the 10 grand right so let's say you sell it for 10 and you buy another car with 20 that's 30 you can put towards something but they would just hurt emotionally because either way this sucks it's not like there's an amazing shortcut how do we move yeah how do we move past this we actually have money in order to upgrade or to fix but we are feeling like I guess the pressure of

just like okay hold on we don't want to sink another listen there's no pressure

any pressure you feel is imaginary anytime I get desperate or I get frustrated I make stupid choices stupid

yes yes you just spent 6 hours in a mechanic shop with two little kids you should make no decisions none not even what's for dinner for 72 hours every nerve you have it's like getting like you just have like four root canals just unfilled right now right so I would rather fly to Alabama on a plane with those two than Auto all day long yes shots fired at the state of Alabama so listen there there's zero pressure that's where we're from oh there we go listen you have $50,000 in the bank you have no pressure

here what you have to decide is how you

want to solve this problem but you have the tools to solve it so any pressure you feel I would say slow down 100% chance get another opinion on

this that's a really high I totaled my

car totaled it and they said the repair

um was going to be about 6,000 bucks I don't know what they're repairing on a Hyundai for for what is that 5 thou six

for 6,000 bucks who knows maybe they got to replace the entire engine but it's feel I feel like you could get an entire engine for $6,000 right here's the other piece I want you to think through I can't think of a climate that would beat up a car more than Anchorage Alaska and I don't know you keep calling these cars I've invested this money in you are not

you are putting money in a depreciating asset there is no investment Happening Here so you keep spending money on your vehicles which is great you have the money you'll work hard and you're kick and butt I would not personally um spend a whole bunch of

money on brand new cars in a climate where half the year the roads are salted like crazy where I'm getting rocks and snow and they're frozen I I wouldn't I wouldn't invest that kind of money in a really nice car for sure and so I think that youall

need a nice dinner and some time away from this for just a second cuz what's going to happen is you're going to go we have to get a brand new $50,000 car because remember that time we were in the shop for 6 hours it was awful so you need to give yourself a little bit of space before you make a terrible financial decision and maybe even this

you know what like I know on the Ramy show like just make it and then move on I can see if if let's say this you're my wife and we're having this conversation and we both agree let's just bite the bullet and pay the money and fix this car if I'm your husband I would go get the car detail super nice get the Shar carpet shampooed

clean it up maybe get to put a radio in it I'm going to do something so feels a little bit not like that old car that just cost you an entire day of your life and $6,000 more dollars right there's a little that's that's a nothing it's a token but it is like a it's an olive

branch towards hey we got bigger goals and our bigger goal is we paid off 100 Grand and now let's buy ourselves a home and let's just don't have one pissed off awful kid screaming diapers everywhere day in a mechanic shop and then spend $30,000 on a depreciating asset that Alaska's going to destroy right I know that's so I don't think we were helpful at all take a breather and either way you're gonna be okay y listen you have $50,000 hear me say this any anxiety you

feel is imaginary if you called me and said I'm a single mom of two kids in Anchorage Alaska and they told me I have to have $6,000 and I have no money then I would be scared to death for you that's not your situation the position where I need to change my mindset of we are out of debt we are free we're not like in this stress

anymore and we have the position to make

a decision rather than just what life happen to us yes now what you're doing is you're transitioning you're transitioning from this is an emergency to this is super annoying just an inconvenience super annoying man cuz we want to do something else with that six grand like anything else other than fix this car but here we are I'll tell you one story John life hack we were going to buy my car my wife upgrade her old car

it was going to be like 18 grand for like a Mazda SUV this was back in 2020 and instead we found one that was way older but it was eight grand and I was like how about this I'll put carplay in it so I spent like 700 bucks and got the thing upgraded with carplay and it felt like a brand new car

I drove deta really nice it was awesome it fantastic so there's always but there's always that thing in your mind where you're like we need that new car John it's so much more reliable it's so much more no you got to get over it it's mostly for ego at that point just bite the bullet pay the money and then do one little nice thing to make it super

we both destroy our cars yes so and I've seen your car John you personally destroyed it I've pushed your car down the highway so there's that's a true story we don't talk about that we don't talk about Bruno or my Tesla that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books until next time spend wisely save intentionally and give

generously hey it's George camel if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey Baby Steps go to Ramsey solutions.com and click on the get started button we'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation that's Ramy solutions.com and click get

started

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## 185. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 4, 2024)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDbcjtBPbqY) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:57 |

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brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

[Music]

[Applause] today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people do work that they

love build wealth and create actual

amazing relationships Dr John deloney

Ramsey personality number one bestselling author and host of the ever

popular Dr John deloney show is my

co-host today open phones at 8825

5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money Spencer is in

Memphis to start this hour hey Spencer

what's up hey um I am calling because I have

gotten myself into quite a bit of debt over the past about 5 years and it's

come down to uh I'm debating if uh

declaring bankruptcy would be one of my options wow i' want to avoid it at all

cost but I don't know what else to do at

this point pretty scary dude you

married not

anymore how long you been

split about three and a half years now

money play a part in that it did I'm

sorry how old are you I am 24 wow um so

how much debt have you you got uh it started about four years ago

and I got 20 it's about $23,000 worth

right now 23,000 in debt on

what uh I had two vehicles and then I

got a $3,000 personal loan uh two credit

card three credit cards that were only

like $500 a piece and then

um I had a military star credit card as

well that went into collections uh so

how much of the 23,000 is the credit

cards uh maybe 1,500 bucks maybe a

thousand oh okay how much do you

currently own two cars I do not and

that's the problem I lost just about

everything during the divorce but I ended up keeping the credit or the the debt for it so so so wait a minute she's

driving both of the

cars uh no it's kind of a long story

long story short whenever I went through

the divorce um she took one of the

vehicles and she had it for about 2

years refused to sign divorce papers I

couldn't file the car as stolen because

she was my wife uh she would never pay

on it so I ended up not paying for it at

all they couldn't repossess it because they didn't know where it was and then

so that was one car I didn't where is that car today go ahead it and it

finally got repossessed but now I still

owe 9 ,000 left okay so she have a repo

of 9k all right where's the other car

the other one uh as I got it I never

turned in the title to it to the bank so

I ended up I believe it turned into a

personal loan or a vehicle loan with no

collateral uh that one was for

6,000 where is that

car I technically I do have the a car to

show for that I have a 2008 Yukon and

okay so it didn't have a lean on it and you sold it and bought a Yukon correct

okay all right and what's your Yukon

worth uh maybe five grand I probably get

five grand for it okay and it's doesn't

have a lean on it no it does not I have

the title okay and what do you make I

make I just got a new job making 58 a

year okay all right all right you're not

bankrupt you're scared and you're hurting correct but you're

mathematically not bankrupt hear me no

sir I've been doing this a long time you just don't know what to do next that's all correct okay you're you're hurting

because all this stuff was out of your control the divorce broke your heart and

you've just kind of swept stuff under

the rug and now you got a really lumpy

rug exactly yeah and um this stuff has a

high rate of Resurrection it comes back

to life zombie money problems yeah they

don't die they just keep coming out of the the grave and they're uglier every time they come out until you shoot them

okay now uh so here's the thing if you

file Chapter 7 bankruptcy uh you can

clear every bit of this and you'll keep

your Yukon under current law in the state of Tennessee and you live in Memphis okay so that is possible I would

not recommend it though you can settle

repo debt for somewhere around uh 15 to

20 cents on the dollar and um and a lot

of your debt is

debt so if we're looking at 20,000 bucks

four or five grand will clear that with

some negotiation and some fight okay but you

got to call them up like the 9,000

they'll probably take 1,500 bucks maybe

2,000 and clear that on the ex-wife's

car that you never really figured out whatever all that stuff right right

right right okay so if you call those people it's not n Grand it's two grand

cuz that's about what you can settle it for cuz they're just going to be so happy somebody called cuz they can't

find nobody in this story they're everybody even the freaking car disappeared in this story right so

absolutely yeah and so if you don't pay

anyone and file bankruptcy you could do

the same thing and just not pay

anyone and not file then the only thing

that could happen is they could come and sue you okay but none of them have yet

none of them have yet not yet correct I

have a court hearing in July for um it's

a i got a set of rims and tires after I

got out of the military and I honestly

never paid on it okay so here's the

thing I can I be mean to you for just a

second in the middle of all your pain please do I need to hear it please do you got to quit buying crap that you don't have money for period absolutely

period and okay like I mean rims and

tires sounds like a 16y old absolutely

okay but that's kind of what you are when you're coming out of the military for the first yeah absolutely so yeah I mean so let's

throw let's throw our shoulders back and start acting like we're 30 or 40 with

our maturity level on our decisions

rather than a wounded 24 year old guy

who's had the snot beat out of him okay

absolutely and I I think you can do that

and we'll help you um so what I'm going

to do is I'm going to assign a Ramsey counselor to you for free and they're going to walk you through step by step how to clear every one of these debts it's going to take

you about n m maybe a year to clear them

all and to negotiate and you're going to

have to be tough and you're going to have to quit buying crap okay can you do

those two things if I help you

absolutely okay so what I'm saying is

23,000 we can probably get all that

cleared for somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 or 12 and you make 50

you can do that in a year but you're going to to scratch and argue with these people a little bit and get it

done absolutely yeah and so so you if

you file bankruptcy when you could have cleared it for $112,000 that'd be just silly I would agree with that 100%

that's okay I needed somebody to tell me all right so you're a good man Spencer

you just been hurting does that give you does that give you peace Spencer that give you some grit it did that helped a lot it did because I I felt like I was

on the edge of the walkboard for quite a

while now she beat you up pretty good

yeah it uh it wasn't nice is there a

little one involved too no not not with

at the time I do have one now yes

okay oh you're 24 right now correct all

right when you get done with here I want you to write 30-year-old Spencer a

letter about the man you are going to be

when you're 30 no more kids unless you're married no

more borrowing money no more buying stupid things so you can look cool to 18yar olds I want you to write

30-year-old Spencer a letter and I want

you to live in to that got it I can do

that cool man hey I was 28 when I filed

bankruptcy I'm 63 now and I'm a

multi-millionaire you're going to be okay son hold on we'll pick up and get

you dialed in this is the ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

you know it doesn't take a degree in

statistics to realize that this one

stinks 93% of undergraduate private

student loans are co-signed so when

you're delinquent and drowning in private student loan debt mom or dad or

Uncle Joe is stuck in that Financial

stress along with you but there is a way

out why refi why refi offers a custom

refinancing option with a fixed rate

loan based on your ability to pay and

the average interest rate why refi

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cost y refi refinances your defaulted

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get out of debt so don't be another statistic in the student loan swamp

contact y refi at

8442 Ramsey or go to Y rei.com

/ Ramsey that's

8442 Ramsey or the letter Y then

rey.com Ramsey

[Music]

open phones at 8825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money Dr John delone is my

co-host today John I I love the

suggestion as we're going into the break with the uh young guy to write him his

future self a letter I kind of almost feel like we all ought to do that like

there's just a there's something about what do you want to be when you grow up you know kind of thing yeah who do you

want to be I I just keep going back to

that conversation that was such a before

and after that I had with my wife when she asked like what do you want this house to feel like when you walk in from work and I was like well I want it to feel warm and I want to feel I want us to be laughing when I walk in not both

of us be so tense and then that started a conversation well then here's what's got to be different and I I just wonder

what I want it to feel like when I'm 40

when I what I to feel like when I'm 60 what do I want my relationship with my kids to be like and what do I have to do right now to live into that that's so

different than let's just get to the next day and the next day and the next day and you wake up and you're a 100 miles from your original destination I just love that idea of sitting down and being attentional um where do I want to

be man yeah because you just don't or

more important who do I want to be right you don't accidentally become good

things no you accidentally become bad

things and life happens and I get really

mad and I start to Spin and make a decision I don't do you've never done this but I find myself way over here and

it's just I I like the idea of of

55-year-old John going whoa whoa whoa

whoa whoa whoa like letting him yeah be

a little bit of a guide for me right yep

absolutely open phones at8 825-5222

I just bought a house um and I'm I'm

feeling a little bued remorse and I just

wanted to get y'all's take on our financial situation to see if there's

some validity in what I'm feeling or if it's just you know I'm just in my head

on it um I'll give you a just a rough

kind of breakdown of our financial before you do that just tell me what the house payment is 3700 okay and what's your take home

pay in the house uh 180 a year roughly

9500 to 10,000 per

month uh no it's not something's wrong

I'm talking about take home after

taxes 180 is not

10,000 10,000 is10 you don't have

$60,000 worth of taxes on

180 you don't um well no okay so are you

taking out 401k and all that no I'm not

taxes only oh oh taxes only uh I don't

know the number off yeah so it's probably okay so how much are you

putting into your

401k um currently I'm 10 10% and my wife

is 10% okay all right so that's 18,000

so um that makes sense then all right

because your your take on pay not counting your 401k would be more like 14

okay something like that and um 401K

health insurance whatever else the crap's coming out of there because something's coming out of there but that's what it ought to be because 180 is 15 a month okay that makes sense so you'd be

at 13 and 3700 is not out of line then

that's my point I had to get to real take home pay for I sold your house and now we don't have to sell your house so that's good so my wife will enjoy that

um so you're the saver and she's the

spender you're the nerd and she's the

free spirit

yes and you you feel like you C you feel

like you caved and bought something you can't afford well we're good on the house the

only debt that we have in our names is a car and my biggest stress right now is D

I just I have 85,000 in the bank the car

I have I have 39 on my car write a check

and pay it off today okay I was going to go sell it and

buy beater just didn't know if it was smart to well you can still sell it later and buy beater if you want to but for today let's get rid of the

stress okay all right and you guys are

not doing a written monthly budget

called every dollar on the every dollar

app where both of you agree on every dollar before the month begins where

it's going and what its name is and if

you'll start doing that you'll feel much more in control okay it'll give you a lot of

it'll give you a lot of Peace it may

cause some fights cuz it may expose what

some people in the house are spending and it's not you

yeah yeah you're correct and we we we

did do the every dollar app and we're able to save around 2,200 a month but for some reason that just seems low and

I I got on Reddit which I shouldn't have done everybody was like oh your house Po and I just started freaking out now listen Reddit is not Reddit is not a

source of anything except trouble no Reddit is for if you're

feeling exceptionally well and you're like you know what I need in my life little depression then you should red rdit other than that if you get if you

get a a a medical diagnosis if you go to

Reddit you're dead by morning the only

thing that will kill you faster is is is

WebMD they'll kill you they'll kill you

within the

hour so seriously you're right so Daniel

Daniel what you guys need to do is you need to get above this and think about

your source of information and we are making fun of Reddit but it's not a good source okay and because the numbers

you're giving me nothing's out of control I think what I'm hearing is a

good guy who's a nerd who's very

responsible like me I'm a nerd um and

your your wife has not let up on the

spending you all are not in agreement you've been kind of you know swinging at

this whole money thing instead of actually making it dance getting it in

line and making every dollar dance and

both of you being in agreement paying off the car and and then I think you're

going to have a lot of Peace the numbers you're giving me are not stupid if they were you know I'd tell you yes sir Aaron can I ask you a few

other peripheral questions yes sir you got any

friends oh yeah that you go hang out

with once a week yes what's the state of your

health what's the state of my health

yeah you exercise you go for walks every

day oh yeah yeah work out six days a

week okay um eat eat clean what's the

state of your marriage great really good really good I

think my biggest I just want to be a good dad I want to be a good husband I want to lead my my family to to to

wealth and I didn't come from that so I

just strive for that there it is yeah you don't want to

screw this up so you're walking a tight RPP I get that good man good for you

that's a that's a good motivation as long as it doesn't take it so far you can't sleep at night that's right I'm

going to send you building take you to Reddit yeah yeah yeah exactly I'm going to send you building an unanxious life I want you and your wife to go through that book together yeah and then you guys jump on every dollar they app and get it going to and make sure make sure you get this stuff dialed in cuz I think you're there I think if you get 100%

alignment with her using the budgeting

process called every dollar that's going

to and you're probably 85 right now okay

if you get 100% control and command over

the dollars and you're probably 90% on

that okay and you pay off the car um

then you're going to and you start doing the ramsy stuff the rest of the way and quit ishing it then then I think you're

going to find an immense flip from the I

I think that little bit of lack of alignment and and then this

tremendous drive to be a good guy is is

where your disconnect is your dissonance

yeah and and yeah his body put a GPS pin

in money worries and so it's just he's

got a new big debt and he's got a kid and it's and his body sounding all the alarms just it's going back to those ratios and you and I've talked about that offline those are just important things I'm doing it right we're safe I'm

doing good I'm doubling up on my payments when I can I'm taking over time when I can I'm getting the stuff done

and um you slowly practice that yeah but

um uh uh when you do something that your

inner voice the holy spirit's telling

you not to do

um and

um then don't be shocked that you're

stressed right exactly so when you buy a

house while you have a $39,000 car debt

and you knew you shouldn't don't don't be shocked that It's upsetting right or

one step further if your parents were

screaming at each other growing up over their house payment even if you put 50%

down and you buy a house expect your

body to feel a little tense that's okay I know that I have to Outsource that cuz when I get emotional I get real emotional and I get real I start making

Choice decisions fast and I get a friend

or two or I get somebody that I trust to say okay I'm about to do something uncharacteristic I'm about to sell my house be the spot is this wise and then

you can get some exhale in your life and they'll go no I got your six you're you're doing good that's it's helpful that's what the show is right yeah when things are incon when you do things that are inconsistent with what you believe

people in John's World call that dissonance there's a disconnect your per

your actions are perpendicular your belief 100% time you get

stressed so George we talk a lot about

identity theft and we take calls from

people that do but yours actually got

stol well don't say it with that much happiness Dave it's true gosh I do not

recommend it if you can avoid it at all costs and that's when I was much younger I had worse hair and a negative net worth but I worked at Ramsay at the time

and so I was covered by Xander ID Theft

Protection so thanks Dave for covering all of us here absolutely well one thing

Xander helps us do that so it's a great benefit for the team but it's a great benefit for everybody because Jeff Xander and I have been working together for gosh 25 years we've been doing stuff

together since before there was an internet and so when the internet interet came on and identity theft became this real serious problem he and

I started talking about it and he went and figured out a way to build an identity theft protection for the ramsy

tribe that's how the whole thing started at Xander and uh it's the most Complete

because he customized it he custom built it from the ground up it's the most complete and cost effective protection

out there it's the best identity theft out there yeah I was raised by the internet as a millennial Dave and it's scary knowing how many websites are out

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[Music]

Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my

co-host today well John it's finally

happened my 35e stellar career has been

reduced to selling T-shirts finally we

get some ramsy cool gear dude I thought

I thought I was um an important author

and now I sell t-shirts so we have better than I

deserve t-shirts um finally we have food at home

is the T-shirt that's a great t-shirt I

got that one that t-shirt says better than I deserve and some cool uh

sweatshirts that say debt-free I guess I

should hold them up for you YouTube people yeah cuz you two people need

debt-free where there it is right there

okay so model it Dave Model come on do

your Vana White Dave come on buddy and

uh I'm drinking out of my own uh better

than I deserve Yeti because God knows I

didn't have enough yetis so I needed

like they they breed like rabbits in my

cabinet theyed everywhere and then we

got our version of the um Stanley Cup

thing over here whatever that is is that they live like no one else yeah but it's the what do they call what are the women call that thing the Stanley it is Stanley yeah that's the brand Stanley Cup I was thinking hockey for a minute but yeah my brother-in-law works on the rail road and he's had a Stanley for 117

years and his daughters were like Dad we

want Stanley and he goes like this and they all went oh he does he's got the

real green on Dad the real ones dad's

got it going on made by Al Aladdin I

think it was yeah so anyway you've been

asking for the ramsy merch shirts tumblers hats uh better than I deserve

hat yep t-shirts yetis uh um yep you got

them we got food at home I can't believe

that one's popular but you're wearing that one you said huh yeah I like that one cracks me up yeah okay so you've got

a story the world needs to hear you can kick off some conversations I'm not

crazy I'm just getting out of debt and

uh it's kind of fun and these it's high

quality you know the new soft kind of t-shirts yeah that all feel like pajamas

now yes everything's you know the old scratchy cotton t-shirts are kind of gone these softy ones are yeah well it's

yeah it's it's it's fun I'm glad we're

doing it listening to you sell clothes is one of the funniest most awkward moments of my professional life I'm just saying it I'm I'm going you know yeah

ramsy Solutions changed my life I bought

a hat from them oh yeah that just I will

work so hard to get an underwear endorsement from somebody just so you have to pitch it not a chance it's amazing just so you have to pitch it

there we go all right uh ramsy

solutions.com store check out all the

new merch it's awesome it is actually

high quality merch I hope we're charging a lot for it cuz it's just embarrassing

that we're doing it so anyway fantastic

hey for years people have been showing up with their homemade they make their own that's true that's true good stuff

that's yeah that's not on me though no

this is on me n this is good happened on

my watch right here this good well it

allows people to be a uh we say it all

the time like we don't we don't do big

$400 million sponsorship like word can

be a walking billboard for us they are like they don't have to say anything if you got a little social awkwardness just be drinking out of your better than I deserve Yeti that's right we go coffee

by the way or where your debt-free cuz

who at the mall doesn't want to know what your net worth is that's important to just anounce it I

see put some sweet tea in the yeti and

go for a walk here we go yeah that's what's in your sweet tea for sure yeah

all right Daniel's in Detroit hey Daniel

what's up oh a lot of debt how can we help sir

well um gonna be having a baby soon like

two months yay and yeah um I've been

fighting every month trying to get

myself back on track I fell behind on bills a few months ago and I haven't gotten anywhere with it I'm just over

$200,000 in debt and I'm trying to

figure out what my best options are to

get back ahead what kind of debt is the 200k bro

I've got 63,000 in a house I've got two

cars and about how much on car one how

much on car one 19,000 how much on Car

2 uh 15,000 okay all right that was

cosigned on that one I'm I'm sorry I say I co-signed on

on the second one but uh for who C uh my

wife well yeah like if you have a baby

with somebody you can buy a car with them too it's okay all right and so um yeah you'all have made a human you can share a checking account all right and so the um all

right so so that for that's 34 so you

only got a little bit of mainly car debt and house debt right what's the other debt um I've got 6,000 uh between credit

card and uh tools yeah tools what do you

do for a living avionics Tech okay and what's

your household income sir um about it's about 50,000 right now

um for a while uh it went way down um I

had to drain my savings account and everything going um the hours I was lacking in

hours at work um and then my wife um she

ended up getting really sick for a

little bit and was out of work um but she's finally back to work but uh

there's no savings account left fall back out so so between the two of you both of you

working you make $50,000

yes okay yeah she's back uh she's only

part-time right right now okay because I

was under the impression avionics techs made more money than that yeah I it may be higher um I'm just

kind of giving a rough estimate um

things are looking better and I'm working more hours um I'm bringing in you work on

airplanes dude right yeah yeah okay all

right when are you making an hour

uh 30 an hour okay how many hours a week

are you getting um I'm finally back to about 40

right now and I'm trying to push for 50

to 60 okay you're making more than

$50,000 a year okay you're doing your ma

you're doing your math wrong okay yeah

maybe that's helpful but but between uh

hours going down temporarily and her being sick and now a baby coming the stress of all that you're just you're'

been out of control and all the money is

in total chaos is that right

yeah absolutely seems like I'm just getting my paycheck and then it's completely gone and we still don't have bills paid that we need to what does what does she do for a living she's hair

styles okay all right cool all right

well here's the thing that I know um I

know that if the two of you sit down together tonight with the TV

off after dinner breathe and start

writing down what you've got coming in

right now and what you could have coming

coming in in the future you can see your way to getting these two straightened out whose car is the $199,000 car nine

good what are you what is it

worth I'm real upside down on that one

uh I was going to sell it not too long ago and I checked into it and it's Blue booking at about 8,000 right now H

that'd be trade in

yeah okay uh trade in they were saying

five what' you do tear it up zer a bunch

of negative equity into it

nope I did not what is it uh it's a

Chevy Silverado of

2012 okay Chevy Silverado do not get

that far upside down without some con

some other piece of circumstance involved you've torn it up there's extra

miles uh or you rolled negative equity

from the deal before into it nope I

didn't have a car loan before oh wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute is this a high interest rate loan

yes yeah okay 19,000 is not your payoff

balance 19,000 is the balance on the

account there's a difference on a highin

subprime loan they book it on top total

of payments 19,000 is your total of

payments if you take a check over there today and pay them off it's more like

15,000 okay so you need to you need to

call them and ask them not what your account balance is but what your payoff is today so you're not nearly as upside

down as you thought you were so that that I knew there's something wrong with that math okay now uh so here's the

here's the here's the prescription for

this the great news is you feel the

pressure cuz you're a good dad going to

be a good dad of a baby coming and

that's going to make you guys sit down and get control of this and not spend

any money except food lights and Water

Shelter and get caught up and oddly

enough sir you make enough to do all of

those it's very possible and don't count

that more Mortgage in your debt right this second let's worry about those bills and those debts and we'll get that stuff squared away first thing I want to do is be current and in control and

you're not that

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[Music]

[Applause]

[Music] [Applause]

guys thanks for joining us here on the Ramsey Show Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality bestselling author is my

co-host today open phones at

88255 22 25 if you like this show we can

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change the algorithm in these different platforms and causes them to promote us

and um and they do it for free because you are telling them we're awesome because you're awesome so thank you thank you for doing that Lisa's in Portland Oregon hi Lisa welcome to the Ramsey show thank you

um I husband passed away unexpectedly a

couple months ago and he was kind of in charge of all of our monies and stuff

and I'm going to get through this call without crying so no you're not cuz I'm

not yeah you don't have to you're good

um so how old are you I'm 54 and we've

been married for next month would be 36

years what happened to him Hun he just

went to sleep I guess and didn't wake

up what was his name oh Troy well we can

all be envious of that methodology can't

we yeah yeah yeah that is one thing I'm

at peace with yeah he liked to be home and here he was there it is just like

that wow I'm so sorry so you got baby

you got any babies at home I got three

grown children that are all married good

good so it's you and and you said you

you're up in the air on the money stuff then right yeah yeah so he he did set me

up I'll be okay but I just don't know what to do with everything and do I pay

my house off with life insurance that I got how much life insurance did you

get I have um right now I have

500 and what right now I think I'm end

up with yeah then I then I'll have I

think another 100,000 but and then in

monthly I think I I added it up and I think I should be get at least 7,000 a

month boy I love your

husband I know so do I Troy what a great

job Troy did so bad when we were young

yeah that that we he just said no way we

got to turn it around so we did yeah

well and he left you set with having no idea that he was going away at 50 that's

pretty crazy that's young yep completely

I know every day I live that looks younger oh my gosh um the

um all right so you only owe on your

home what do you owe on it I owe 240 okay and do you

work I do not work okay but you got

$7,000 a month coming in mm for Life

where's that coming from that's going to

be for life what's that from military ah

wow and then he was um he also from his

he was a police officer guys are I have that retirement

too this dude's amazing huh what a great

guy oh my gosh yeah all right so call

the salt of the earth yeah wow uh um

okay so let me play pretend I'm just look you have any other debt um I have two credit cards that are

about $12,000 okay all right and I own my cars

though so nothing else if you didn't

have a car payment and you didn't have any credit card debt I mean you didn't

have a house payment and you didn't have any credit card debt and I think you can

make it on 7,000 a month don't

you definitely or you're gonna get on a

written budget so you don't screw this up yes okay because people can screw this

up oh I know okay so that's what's

scaring you that's what's scaring you're I don't want this is all Troy did such a good job and I don't want to mess it up that's what's bothering you am I right

yes it's totally it good good okay

that's a good motivation I don't want you to live in the terror of that because I want to give you the information so you are doing it right uh

but but if I had you on a detailed written budget monthly where you knew

that you were easily living on 7,000 000

which you should easily do with no house payment oh yes okay yep you cut up the

stupid credit cards and never borrow money for anything ever again say I

promise Dave I promise on that one Dave

so we're not going to have any debt and we have a paid for house and we got

$350,000 to invest and we have $7,000 a

month coming in am I missing

something no that's a pretty strong

position I think I think you and Troy did a good job here's the one Lisa to

inject a question here to you but Dave I want I'm asking it to you too Lisa is

there a chance that in six months When the Smoke Clears you want to go live by some of your grandbabies um no I'm GNA stay in the

house um I have three grandbabies close

to me here and then I'm having a new one

great in in Montana so okay awesome

normally I tell somebody don't do anything for six months don't pay off just sit but this is where you want to be this where your family is where the little ones are this is your home right oh yeah that's I'll add to that question

then I'll let go ahead and be real uh

tacky okay you said he died in his sleep

in the home yes okay are are you GNA be okay

living there then yes okay he's here okay okay all

right have you gone through the clothes

yet or anything nope it's stayed forever

okay so what here's what I'm gonna tell you and you're not going to believe me but I'm just going to tell you that's

about 98% of the people like you have

had the blessing and honor to sit with first couple of months out that's that's

and it's all good and there's no rush

okay okay okay but in nine months two

years four years we'll see right and

that's not you don't solve for that right now yeah the longer it goes the

weirder it is that you still got the clothes okay

but today is fine today's fine yeah

today's great 27 years from now if those

clubes are still hanging there that's an issue okay I'm just saying but but today

today you're fine yeah just let it go

it's part of your grieving it's part of your grieving and you're you're strong lady comt hey and you did get through this without balling good for you and I

almost did I only had one little tear but I cry out Apple Beast commercials so

um okay okay can I ask you one more

thing uhhuh um and this is not money

related I grew up in the home of a police officer too okay oh okay there is

an extra layer

of and I still feel it my dad's in his

70s and I'm in my mid-40s

and there's still a level of when I get around my dad I just exhale because policemen walk around as

though everything's GNA be okay yes exactly I want you to make sure

you have somebody to call because you're

going to lean on a crutch that's not there anymore he's in your heart but

he's not going to be there in that restaurant he's not and you know he would always sit up against the back of the room and now you're gonna right so he's got all those little things that you always had that extra layer of

everything's going to be okay and your body's going to feel like that's gone CU

it is okay cuz it's gone and I want you to have somebody you can reach out to yeah are you in a good church

Lisa yes good okay here's what we're

going to do here's what we're going to do I've been doing this 35 years and

I've sat with people exactly where you are hundreds and hundreds of times and

you and I just went through the numbers and everyone listened to us go through them your numbers are just fine you're

just fine you were married to a

wonderful man who did a Wonder job

making sure you were going to be okay and you are okay I would pay off my house I'd pay

off my house and I'd get on a written budget and I'd pay off those credit cards and I would cut them up and I'm

going to put you into Financial Peace University so you learn how to handle

money so you feel confident in this

subject area going forward okay and I'm

going to have you sit with a Ramsay coach that's been trained by us at my

expense you're going to pay nothing for any of this okay oh okay okay CU we're

we're people of faith and our book tells us to take care of Orphans and

widows and and we and we go by the

book okay all right thank you all right

you hang on and we'll have uh we'll have

the team pick up in there and get you signed up for financial peace and get you with a coach you're going to be fine honey you're in really good

shape this is my dream Dave yeah hey

guys here's the deal This Is It she just

told you what it means when you put life

insurance in place have a will in place

and have your pensions lined up and so forth to make sure that your family's taken care of it's how you say I love

you now the rest of you that are listening to this get your butt and

gear and get over Xander insurance and

make sure that you're Troy cuz all of

you ought to be Troy this is the Ramsey

Show [Music]

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bro brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

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today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships the phone number

is 8825 5225 Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality host of the Dr John deloney

show and uh author of a couple of number

one bestselling books the latest building a non anxious life he's my

co-host 88255 225 Auburn Alabama Ashton is calling hi

Ashton what's up hey how are y'all better than we

deserve how are y'all we're good I'm so

happy y'all took my question because we really need some help with this we'll give it a shot okay so me and my husband were

25 and a year ago we purchased a camper and

a truck because the payments on that

were going to be cheaper than what our apartment was going to be which was going to be almost $3,400 and now we're stuck with a camper

and truck and we're going through baby steps and we're trying to figure out if it's worth keeping to pay down until it's out of the upside down or to sell

and then pay on the upside down do you still live in it or uh no we do not my

mom has a rental house that became available so we live in the rental house

now so the plan that it was cheaper was

not executed well it's not cheaper if you

didn't need now you just have a camper payment yes now we just have a camper

payment which we are renting it out

currently um as of like an Airbnb

vacation and it's paying for it but

we're worried when Summer's over MH if

if it's not I just don't want to have

that what if if it doesn't get paid for so we how much how much do you owe on the camper

115,000 good gosh holy

Jesus it's it's like an apartment on

Wheels it has a washer and dryer a size

bed it's it's a massive fifth wheel God

what do you all make a year um last year together we made I

think 145,000 I'm a hairstylist and he

at the time was a firefighter paramedic

and and y'all are 20 did you say

24 or yeah we were 24 and they loaned

you $115,000 on a camper I deprecia I don't

know how that was possible because we

couldn't get a house no one would loan

us a house or get get us a mortgage for

a house with me being a hair stylist and

my income fluctuating wasn't a fixed income I love you you're like you're the

dumbest smart person I've talked to today I'm trembling to ask this question

have you figured out what the actual value of the camper is today the actual

value of the camper is 90,000 and you

owe one5 yes 115 so you're 25 in the go yeah

but if you go to Camping World and then want to like buy it back from you it's

they offered me like 63,000 I'm sure

they did and the Camping World sold you this crap yes I did okay and now I I I I know

the news is going to get worse but I have to just keep going how much do we owe on the

truck the truck is

50,000 I'm laughing with you not at you

Ashton no no I'm laughing at myself too

because had get and have you priced the

truck's current

value his trade in value when we talk to

a dealership was 42,000 I believe okay

so you can get close to what it's worth if if you private sell it or close to what you owe if you private sell it cuz

trade in value doesn't work okay do you

guys have any

money like saved up like money yeah yeah

we went we're in the baby steps we had the emergency fund saved up and now we're just dump money credit card you

have $1,000 okay yes and then we're just

dumping all the extra money we have into

credit cards to get them finished how much do you have in credit card

debt um

total 7,000 okay good all right um my

car your car is what my car is 10,000

okay okay good okay all right um and I

assume you've been so far paying everything on time and so your credit's probably Stellar yeah our credit is still good

thankfully it's still very good okay um

the longer you wait to sell the camper

every day day that you wait the spread

between what you owe and its value gets

wider agreed mhm the value is going down

faster than the loan balance agreed yes

yes sir so we don't want to

delay we want to sell the camper as soon

as we possibly can sell it without giving it away to camper world or

whatever they're called I don't want to go over there again but but at 63,000 no

we're not doing that but if we can get

90 for it or 89 or

92 or

85 the sucker's

gone okay so get it up for sale

today and then you're going to have to go to the credit union where's this loan

is it Camping World gave you the loan

too yes it's through a liant credit

union I believe of course it is

yeah of course it is that's who makes

loans like this um they're prob not

going to be any health but contact them

and ask them if you can sign a note for the difference unsecured so you sell it for 90 you sell

it for 90 you owe 115 you're going to have a $25,000 note with a liant if you

did that otherwise you got to go to your

credit union or your local bank and get them to loan you $25,000 and do it like a personal loan

yep you're yeah you know all we're doing

is reducing 115 to 25 that's a good

move yes okay and that's not $ th000

payment like we're making now exactly

and we're going to sell his truck as

soon as we can get close to what is owed

on it so put it on Craigslist and put it

on other stuff and um and because you

know we we can get a vehicle down closer

to your vehicle that is doable and then

of course we're going to clear those credit card so now if you're making 145

and you owe 25 and you owe 10 on your

truck and seven on credit cards and a

little bit on some kind of car we get for him or truck we get from him like

10,000 uh we can clean that pretty quick

you could be out of debt we're already down a th000 in two weeks yeah but you

could be out of debt completely if you'd

make those moves sell his truck in the camper uh by the end of summer if

they're gone at a reasonable price um

and that way the hole is not too big on either one of them that you got to pay back um but you could be debt free in 18

months that would be awesome but that's

living on beans and rice rice and beans

yes no more pipe dreams absolutely cuz this was a pipe

dream like drugs were in the pipe pipe

yeah we smoked this pipe

dream but it sounds crazy to do a $3,400

apartment too like I you tra that that

compared to the truck and the camper the

$3,400 apartment is freaking lights out

genius compared yeah all right think

about it this way think about this way Ashton at 34 was about you would have

paid about 40 Grand this year in rent in

this apartment yes you're hoping to sell

this at a loss to where to minimize your

loss to 25 to $30,000 to pay off yeah so

there it is you You Paid It Anyway You Paid It Anyway you just didn't get to live in an awesome apartment yeah instead you were on a apartment on

wheels from Camping

World Dave it's so great I can't I can

feel you try not to laugh right next to me I'm just $200,000 appreciating they say in Auburn

Alabama bless your heart bless this is

the Ramsey [Music]

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thank you for joining us America we're glad you're here Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my co-host today today's

question of the day comes from Tracy in

Texas all right Tracy asks my husband

and I have been married for over 20 years and we have six children together

he is a high functioning alcoholic and

he's emotionally abusive last week

things escalated to the point where I had no choice but to call the police and have him arrested I filed for divorce

the next day we make a combined

$320,000 per year but live paycheck to

paycheck and have $0 in savings our only

asset is the equity in our home we cannot afford a divorce and he has promised to make me pay for his arrest I

feel like I'll be forced to let him come home because I don't have any other financially realistic option I earn six

figures on my own but I'm worried about how I'll feed my kids and keep the mor

mortgage current I know I need the four

walls first but I'm overwhelmed and can't do this alone

okay first thing by definition he's not

high functioning right yeah yeah yeah

he's not functioning uh he might have

been high functioning in the past but not now yeah um and so wow and good for

you for having the courage to call on him man

um yeah if he got arrested and there's

there's some parts left out of here um

yeah it was no longer emotional it was not emotional wasn't just emotional abuse if you get arrested they don't arrest you for yelling yeah but good for

you good um so when you say we can't

afford a divorce but I earn six figures

Dave tell me if I'm wrong here but it seems to be a lot of chaos and a lot of

mess here if you earn six figures you

can go get um a relatively nice

apartment and you can go you can figure

out the house stuff later yeah but you

can go get a place where you're safe yeah go go around a

house and um

put the house up for sale and um tell your divorce attorney

that um they get paid when the house

sells and they'll be happy with that

because there's plenty of equity there and I mean if you have scratched together a few thousand dollars or something to put down a little bit of a

retainer that'll be fine um but um

here's a thing I'm this is you you you

can speak into this cuz more your area of expertise dealing with trauma and dealing with these things but um we know

I knew this before John came here but now John has Dr John with his PhD and

counseling has reaffirmed this I know

that um there's a high correlation between

money control extreme levels of control

by the man in the house and domestic

violence using her as a punching

bag and part of the narrative that is

used there is you can't make it without

me I make your life miserable you can't I you

know you can't survive you can't survive

you can't survive and after 20 years she

believes it even though she can go to work and someone's going to pay her six figures for skill set here but she can't

do it home that's right she still thinks he has power right I'll make you pay

yeah to which John and I are almost chuckling to ourselves because this is a

guy who's so out of control he's in jail

he ain't going to make anybody pay right

he's not exactly a threat he's what's known as a bully that got punched in the knows and most of them are absolute

wusses once you punch a bully really

hard they just sit down and

cry and moan and that's what this guy is

yeah he he's he's a coward yeah and so

uh cuz his only chance his only chance of upping someone is his wife this is a

coward and so he's not as big a threat

darling as your psyche which has been

reconditioned over 20 years tells you

yeah Agreed 100% % so I mean I'm seeing

domestic violence language in this am I WR all over this yeah and sometimes it's

even hard to write that down it's hard

it's hard to write it down yeah um so

yeah you earn six figures go get yourself and by the way your life your

Li uh standard of living will change

dramatically you're going to have to let that go go get a small house the

smallest house as you can afford with six kids and it's not going to be fancy

it's going to have for mic countertops and all who cares you're going to have

safety in your home for the first time in in in 20 years

and yeah tell your attorney that he you

get paid in the house sells and he's

going to have a high futin attorney uh

also no he doesn't he does have any money nobody's got any money well that's

true yeah he didn't have any cash either he's in exactly the same place she's in that's a good point I'm going to make you pay where are you getting the attorney's fees buddy yeah yeah so um

that he's just broke as she is so they

got a lot of equity that's it and they got a good income that's it so what I'm

going to do is start uh I'm going to get

out of the house and park in something

cheap and get the house sold with court

order with the attorney as soon as possible y like I mean fast like

blindingly fast not even as a part of

the divorce settlement just the money's paid into the court until the divorce is settled and then let the attorneys get paid out of that and then just make sure

that they don't keep it there for 5 years and they're the only ones getting the money right okay but uh but Bubba

Bubba has got no power here yeah he he's

he's at you know the only Power Tracy

that this guy has he has no Financial power he has no emotional spiritual uh

physical power the only Power he has is

between your ears and as if you quit the

day you quit letting him live there rentree is the day this whole thing turns over fast because John and I

aren't we're not intimidated by him and we can see real clearly exactly how this

is going to go down and you're going to come out of this just fine other than um

the healing that you're going to go through from the years of calling this a high functioning

alcoholic when in reality he hadn't been

high functioning if he ever was in a long long time and I want to speak to this um if this happens to be Tracy or anybody else

listening I

remember always getting a pat on the

back in my annual review because I was

in charge of a lot of Revenue and

expense accounts multiple millions of

dollars and we always came in under budget that was like a thing I was known for always going to l laying underneath that and my household finances were a mess

and I always felt a ton of shame that I could do it so well over here but when I got here I I wasn't a person of discipline and have any self-control or anything like that and so if this is you Tracy you're good at work you make six

figures but at home Everything feels chaotic you have to do the brave scary

hard thing and ask for help you got to

ask for help that's what fpus for that's what every dollar is for that's what our financial coaches here are for that's what your neighbor down the street is for that's what your minister is for you got to ask for help and say okay I'm

great at work here so much that they pay me six figures how do you make a checking account on your own how do you how do you do some of these basic things that you quote unquote should know but you don't know how to do it okay let's go get the help we need to do yeah and talk to your uh boss at work if you're making

six figures you may need a 10 grand

Advance on pay to uh to get the new

place deposits and all and to get a

little bit to for an attorney to get started but um

uh can I

AFF I feel like I will be forced to let

him come home no nope I thought I saw

that in there let me go back to that he

wants you to feel that way there's

nothing in the law that says that

there's nothing I mean you need to get a

restraining order and you know you need

to make him pay for inflicting this on

you and six kids yeah and it's not a matter of Vengeance it's a matter of boundaries safety and safety

and no come home by the way he could

come home but it might be in an empty house where cuz you moved to a rental right and the house he's living in is up for sale by court order yeah and that's

where I want this thing to go as fast as possible and what about the kids and what about the kids let me tell you the kid the only way the kids are going to be okay to is when you are that's right

that's right having a dragon living inside your house is infinitely less

safe than them having to move in the middle of a school year or in the sum time or whatever yeah the dragon does not get to come home correct yeah nope

sorry sorry Dragon we discovered you're

a dragon who knew now you can't live

there what a mess yeah it's like you

know we thought you were a pet dragon

turns out you're a dragon it's it's amazing Dave uh you said it it's it's

you can be so in control over here and

somebody just beat you down for 20 years for so long you just believe you believe that story the story becomes the story you tell yourself and uh it's really

hard to change that narrative yeah it's tough so uh Tracy to use John's um

phrase your worth you are worth not being a punching

bag you are worth standing alone and

creating a new life that's full of peace

and you got to go do it it's going to be hard but it's going to be a lot easier than dealing with the dragon yeah this is the Ramsey Show

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Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at 8825 5

5225 well ramsy events are in full swing

around here we had a great event here last weekend with a Total Money Makeover weekend it was one one of the most fun events I've had in a long long time I

thoroughly loved it um it was a old

school tmmo stuff man and it was it was

a blast our upcoming money and marriage

event with Rachel Cruz and Dr John

delone sitting beside me just sold out

and it's in October so it's done next

week we have our brand and that means

you got fomo so get ready um next week

we got a brand new virtual event and the

good news is there is no seating limitations when you're doing things virtually so ultimate number of living

uh unlimited number of living rooms out there to watch this in uh Dave Ramsey's

investing Essentials on uh two nights I

will be doing the not the same thing

each night is individual the second night I'll give you a hint is mainly real estate and I'm going to open up my

personal Playbook of how I personally invest and the process I use the

principles I use the actual things I put

money in and the people that I run around with some many of which have hundred million net worth or greater what are they really doing not what your

broke Tik Tock influencer living in his

mother's basement is doing uh but we're

going to actually show you like real people real rich people on what they really do um and it's not flip this

house I'll just go ahead and give you a h ahead of time so um yeah so anyway

it's going to be fun and it's actually so like crazy like bazillion of you have already bought tickets thank you tonight virtual event May 2122 which makes it

next week it's 199 bucks get your

tickets to that Ramsey solutions.com

events and the cruise is almost sold out

for next march the Ramsey Cruise uh

there's going to it's March 22nd through 29th next year um it's all the Ramsey

personalities uh plus bunch of celebrities going to be on there with us and uh so it's going to be a lot of fun it's the live like no one else so if you're baby step four or Beyond

and you want to come we'd love to have you uh we don't want you spending money on a cruise when you're getting out of debt and building your emergency fund that's wrong so don't do that that's why it's called the live like no one else Cruise so that later you can live and give like it's the later part live and give like no one else Cruise so it's going to be a lot of fun and there's a

handful of handful of sweets left but or

not sweets rooms I think the sweets are all gone but the um I think it's like

80% sold out right now and it's only

been up for like four weeks so and I heard that you're uh you've challenged

the boat to a cannonball competition in

the big pool I'm excited about that Joe

levit told me that uh you're going to be leading the way it's going to be awesome really yeah yeah he said you have a big onesie uh swimsuit that you're instead

not not so the speedo rumor went away

that's good yeah that's good okay that

got uh got they took a company vote but

no not not doing any of the above but your big on the above um it's gonna be awesome the above I don't know where these people are hanging out together

and what they're ingesting while they're having these discussions but not doing it gummy bear breath not doing it just

saying not happening not those kind of

gummies all right uh Erica is in Kansas

City hi Erica what's up hi I was wondering where does a big

home renovation project fit into baby

steps would it be like baby step

3B could be it could be 456 probably 456

something like that um what how large a

project you want to do yeah we have a house that is um it's

kind of like a two and a half bedroom

house and we need more bedrooms for our

kids as they are getting bigger okay W you sell it and buy

one well we have land and land prices

have almost quadrupled here so you like

the you like the piece of ground you're own yes okay and how many acres have you

got 30 oh that's nice very cool okay and

what's the square footage of the two and a half it is 1,800 Square fet how old is

it over a

100 okay is there any

um historical value or family value to

that particular house no not at all push it

down push it down yeah be a lot

easier I've done I've done probably I

don't know 500 Renovations renovating

something that's 100 years old is my

idea of hell they don't build them like they

used to thank

God we build so much better house

nowadays the pipes are bad the wiring is

bad the roof is bad the lumber that was

put in there was rough on it's twisted like a turkey toe and oh God no it just

it's all but when you get done with this

you're just going to have a hundredy old house that's been patched up

again that's how you end up with two and

a half bedrooms we call them country

built houses people just keep adding crap to it and it just looks like a

looks like a lrin to get through it and

um just keep adding another room out there and add another room out there and so I would consider that now so uh you'd

build a 3,000 what's your household income

110,000 good okay so you could just get

a construction loan move into an apartment for a year or move into a rental or get an old $5,000 trailer and

put on the property while you build and live live in that crappy thing and while

you build the house whichever I don't care and then build a house that's what

I would do you do whatever you want but

if you're going to spend almost you're going to spend about the same amount of money a lot more trouble and end up with a substandard product if you renovate so um but go ahead and renovate

if that's if that's the game y if y'all want to do that that you're talking about spending couple hundred grand

though aren't you uh this particular project we are

thinking under

75,000 what are you

doing there is an attic

space and it would be convert making it

livable had somebody look at the

structure doesn't fall into the basement

spoken within we've we don't have a

basement we have spoken with an engineer

that and it'll hold it with some reinforcements

yes here we go okay all right I I I rest

my case um but the uh the defense rest

but the uh um so yeah

um yeah if that's what you guys want to

do uh but I would do that it to answer your original question four five to six

um so would you pay off the mortgage

before you did something like that no

I'm P it's 456 I mean if you if you if you come up

you make a you make $75,000 in cash

renovation you want to buy something that's $75,000 in cash you want to do

that before you pay off your mortgage that's a 456 baby step four is 15% of

your income into retirement five is kids

college six is would pay off the house early you're going to reduce how fast you pay off the house um in order to

come up with 75,000 cash in order to do

this renovation I personally think the

whole TR financial transaction would also be easier if you took out a

construction loan to build a house where

that one was and um made that your new

mortgage on a 15-year fixed and when you

move into it you've got a solid product

and that's the direction I would go and it's just then all of that sitting at baby step six you're just going to pay off the house so the renovation is rolled into the mortgage the way I'm talking about because it becomes a new house and I think you'll end up with um

yeah I I you're you're probably going to

end up with more uh more of a mortgage

than your going your way well I know you will I know you will cuz I'm pushing down your house so uh but uh but you're

but you're going to be like $100,000 glad you did so um I think you need to

watch more HGTV Dave you don't have the

vision all she needs is $150,000 in

engineering have you really you know I

never watched that but I was actually in

a a waiting room the other day and they had that thing on and I was trapped MH

and I couldn't get away from it yeah the

people that are doing that stuff are the

most unusual humans have you noticed it

looks like something out of a zoo it

looks like a Star Trek bar a Star Wars

bar that's going to do a house renovation I mean there there's like like no there's I there's no like regular rednecks going in there and just renovating that would be no chip and

Joanna did that well chip and Joanna are pretty normal yeah I think that's your

that's your move dude redneck Renovations from what I've heard but but the rest I mean redneck Renovations you'd be a billionaire yeah I think

we're on to something Dave except that I

all you I don't want to do it you push the house over every time that'd be hilarious that's sh Dave just how we

going to fix this bedroom Dave push it over knock it over this is the Ramsey Show

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[Music]

[Applause]

[Music] so the guys in the booth have already launched the redneck Renovations show during the break hey here's what it is

it's a call-in show where people all over the country call George and uh

camel and Ken Coleman and uh ask them

plumbing and electrical and renovation

uh question two of the most inept people

that could possibly ever answer those questions on the planet great that's not there's nothing redneck about that that's just inep no it' be so fun it

would it would be incompetent but it

wouldn't be redneck that's not fun

redneck Renovations this is going nowhere Matts and Matt and Dana in Omaha

Nebraska hey guys how are you not too

bad Dave thanks for taking our call sure

how can we help well

so uh I've been I'm a farmer out here

and got in kind of hooked up with you

because I was sick and tired of my

terrible financial decisions for years

and years and years and years and I my wife and I have downloaded the

every dollar app and I think I'm going

to purchase the premium

tomorrow and one of the questions that I

have is my 17-year-old daughter Dana

who's on the phone with me now uh we

were talking about just college and we

don't have a college savings at all for her she's a junior just finished her

junior year today and she's like I gotta build

credit and I'm like I instantly was like

nope you need to get in touch with Dave

Ramsey so my as my wife and I begin this

journey of we don't have a horrendous

amount of debt the biggest thing that we need to do is control our money so where

I know where it's going so that's that's

the journey we are on and I don't want

my daughter to make the same mistakes that I did okay well that would be every parent

that's a good parent anyway um and um so

when a 17 year old and she's on the phone what's her name AA Dana okay so

when Dana says um I want to build my

credit um two years ago you would have

thought oh that's probably a good

idea uh probably yeah and and now you're

like going oh God Dave

Ramsey exactly that that is exactly what

I'm doing well and and here's the thing so

Dana Dana what happened is this the um

the Bible says be not

conformed to this world don't be like

everyone else because if you look at the statistics of average in America today

what you find is the average divorce is

caused by money fights and money

problems and money stresses uh if you

look at the statistics 70% of people are

living paycheck to paycheck if you look

at the statistics people who chase the

credit and debt game spend their lives

earning money for other people and giving it to them in the form of debt payments and that's your dad I'm sorry

that's that's her dad right there yeah

and and so that oh it's everybody I mean

it's normal so that's why we say don't

be normal don't don't be conformed to

this world if what this world is doing

isn't working why would you want to be one of them you want to be weird if if

normal is losing we want to be

successful we want to win then we don't

want to be normal if the group of

friends you're running around with are

uh going nowhere then guess what you're going to go nowhere because you're hanging out with them embracing the same set of habits patterns and behaviors that they embraced reading the same books which

are useless reading this watching the same useless movies and Netflix garbage

and so you know if that if that's what you want to be if you want to be normal

yes go build your credit score but normal's broke and normal's stressed and

so I think you don't want to be normal

um I think you've been lied to by a

normal culture that tolds you you have to have a credit score in order to become prosperous and successful and the

truth is the actual data tells us that it's the opposite of that and so that's

you know where we are then the second part of the equation is how am I going

to go go to college cuz Mom and Dad hadn't saved for college and um the guy

you're lucky because the guy sitting beside me has a PHD in higher education

and has served in several different

universities in the uh leadership team

in the administration of several universities around the nation and actually knows exactly what the college scene looks like um and I before I pitch

to him I will tell you that you don't have to go into debt to go to college uh

you do have to select a college you can

afford and there is no difference

between the data again what we're trying

why are we going to college we're going to college to become more successful and

to have a better quality life with the knowledge that we get it's not actually the degree that matters it's the knowledge and so we want to go get knowledge a and the truth is is that you

can pay $100,000 a year for the

knowledge or you can pay $112,000 a year

for the knowledge and the TR and and the

knowledge is basically the same so you

can get a degree in marketing for $100,000 a year at you know most

expensive universities in the nation or you can go to a State University and pay $112,000 a year and get a degree in

marketing and it's basically the same information and there's no data that says where you went to school CA you to be successful there is data that says

when you have more knowledge you have higher probability of being successful knowledge that's useful in the marketplace like a marketing degree or whatever that kind of thing so I would tell you that if you select a a a an

inexpensive school you're going to get a great education and you're going to work

while you're in school and that's going to give give you a great education I did John did most people do and um then then

you can come out with no student loan debt and probably your mom and dad since they're getting their crap together are going to be able to help a little John what would you say well I say Dana so wor what do you think about all

that um yeah okay

so my plan was to attend like a

community college and not a

university great brilliant because it's

just I've Been Told lot the university

is just not worth it and so well that's

not true it is sometimes but not always

depends on what you want to do and when you want to do it and how you want to do it and all that but if you've decided you can you can meet your short-term and

long-term goals right now starting at Community College amazing go for that's

the best that's the best deal on the market great for the first couple of years right yeah I think we just lost

them oh we just lost them well and and

so Dave while we're here here's the

thing

Mike Row we the three of us have talked about it it's there's a both and to this

there is a no one needs to go to college it's so stupid well that's not true that's not true I do not want to go to a doctor that didn't go to college I don't want an engineer bill in my house didn't go to college and does everyone have to go no they don't or does everyone have

to go to Every does everyone have to go to Harvard no God no so um some of the

most amazing people I know started in community college and I had lost student

graduates it started in okay back okay

Dana we're back with you I think in Community College all right there we go go we we somehow the call drops sorry

about that all right Dana we're back with you so you're talking about two years in community college and then maybe move off to University to finish it sounds like what are you talking about studying um no I'll do probably

four years at a community college and not move on to a university and a degree in what um I'm going into nursing okay

beautiful that's great wonderful

wonderful and then you got to go then you got to go to nursing school right

yes okay and you got to pass your board

but nursing is probably one of the best

uh career choices you can do out there because there's ever since I'm old and

ever since I've been doing this like 40 years there's been a shortage of nurses there's always a shortage and so you can

kind of pick and choose where you work and they'll pay you a lot and you can always get as much overtime as you want

yeah when your dad gets some weird itch from working on the farm he's going to call you and you can help him be right

he gets a rash that's undescribable rash

from tractor it's already happening

E Matt come on um but Dana listen

everyone in your world is telling you the only thing that matters is the car you drive is your FICO score is all this

it's nonsense man it's just nonsense and

I know it's hard when you're 17 to have three knuckleheaded old men telling you to do something else but if you like

you're at this weird Crossroads and you can go you can take a left or you can

take a right and one of these paths is going to be like just like Dave said everybody else and if you look around

everybody's broke or you can go right

and uh you can take another you can go the other direction Matt can y'all chip

in and help her pay for Community College I'm hoping okay well she's only

a junior I mean you're just now started getting your stuff straightened out I think you can I think you're going to be there because you said you didn't have a lot of debt you were just chaotic right

correct okay excellent so yeah I think

I'm I'm making that as a part of the thing now I will tell you Dana that if you're my kid I'm not going to help you

I'm not going to pay for part of your school if you turn around over here and doing something stupid yeah like going into debt or something okay so I'm not going to assist you in harming yourself

if I'm your dad but uh but if he can be

a part of the solution since you're being very wise about where you're going to school I think you should if he can

be I think it'd be fantastic that's perfect hey good call guys thanks for letting us preach at your 17-year-old this is the Ramsey Show

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live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the ramsy show we help

people build well do work that they love

and create actual amazing

relationships Dr John deloney Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author host of the Dr John deloney show is my co-host today open phones atle

8825 5225 Kim is in Atlanta hi Kim Welcome to

the ram show hey Dave and John thank you

so much for taking my call I watch you guys all the time and I love you guys well thank you I have a morage question

for you I'm 63 and I want to pay off my

mortgage like you always talk about but

I have a a 401k and I have Investments

but do I take that out and cash it in

some of it to pay off the mortgage or do

I just continue to try to pay over

what's your mortgage balance

um it's 100K okay and how much in your

non-retirement

Investments um 127 okay and you have an emergency fund

instead of that I've got um like 10,000 okay and

how much in your 401k um 500 plus okay I wish it was more

but it's not and then 63 are you still

working yes what do you

earn about 97 a year good for you what's

your what's your career plan on how long

you going to work I want to retire

instantly well I have a I also have a um

a booth in an antique mall okay but I

mean how how long do you plan on making

93 and adding to the

500 um a couple years I guess okay

65 you're thinking 65 okay yeah they

don't downsize me out okay so um if you

have an emergency fund proper and um

which you do and you take 100,000 out of

your non 401K money uh you should have

virtually no taxes on it there may be some capital gains depending on how that's structured okay uh and you pay

off your home mortgage that leaves you

basically with 500 Grand agreed M okay

at 63 if you add nothing to that and

it's invested in good mutual funds averaging 10% it'll be worth a ion when

you're 70 it's Ultra conservative right now so

I guess I need to rethink it because I was scared you know I was like Well everybody's losing money so I'm who's

everybody I've made a killing this past

year did you in a regular regular mut F

then you need to get with a good smart Vestor Pro and have this adequately invested I don't want you taking a bunch of risk get off the news but um get off

the news and quit and don't listen to

everybody they're a bad financial planning firm um the

um yeah let's um let's do that and uh so

again if you if you don't add anything to it and you're going to add two years

more of 401k contributions to it is what

we're plan is today right but but not

counting that two years that you're going to add to it which is going to be another 50,000 or so give or take um

then uh which you could easily do if you

don't have a house payment right so load that 401k up for the next two years and

and then count on it doubling about

every seven years the lump sum if it's

invested in good mutual funds averaging 10% plus okay so again a half a million

at 63 becomes a million at 70 at 77 is 2

million and uh that's if you're not

cashing it out to live on and I don't think you will be so I think you're in

good shape because I think you'll probably create enough uh Antique Mall

uh income to eat on and be leaving this

alone and letting it grow and so and the

house is worth what about um 350 okay so you're about

an eyelash away from already have a million dollar net worth way to go thank you well done yeah thank you

for your advice I was wondering you know should I just continue to try to you

know pay on the principal or should I take the money out and just go ahead and go for it I would go for it and and then

the thing that I think that'll do is it'll probably do two things one is I

want number one is I want you to start investing that old house payment immediately so you got more Investments

to offset I we're not trying to increase your monthly cash flow we're trying to you know use the money that would have been going to a bank let's put it into your account now the second thing is and

and this will be weird but you can you

can look back and write it down and look back five years from now see if it really happened I think that if they try

to rightsize or downsize you you'll make

a completely different decision or have

a different discussion in the negotiation with them uh if your house

is paid off then if it's

not true it it puts a little Swagger in

there to where you go you're going to

you you you're going to lay me off and I'm 63 uh you better get ready to write some

checks boys and girls I mean and you can

you can toy with them a little bit right

um but but if you kind of got a house payment hovering in the background you're not you're a little bit more mild

a little bit meaker do you have a is it

gut feel or is there some sort of Matrix

cuz I I I think about my mom who's in

her 70s if she was to call with that same question there's a balance between

I want you to have the least amount of risk exposure which so don't have a

house payment versus you're going to

have to pay bills on going um so how

much money right see saying balance if

she had 100,000 to her name I wouldn't do it okay so you wouldn't wipe yourself

out not at 66 not at 63 is a quarter

million okay is it 500,000 yeah I just I

want some kind of a substantial Nest Egg

depending on her situation sitting would you use 4% draw to like you make number

4% draw but the uh but the uh I'm I'm

just saying is there based on the standard of living

that this person's living in what's

their nest egg look like after we pay off the house okay okay now if they're

if they're used to making $40,000 a year

and the mortgage is $40,000 you know

that's a that's a different standard of living than she's living correct okay she's in a half million doll house or half million doll in savings $350,000 house and she making 100K okay okay so

I'm basing all of those things in there and I'm saying all right what's a person like that need in a nest egg to be

pretty comfortable after we pay off the house well she's going to have a half million left she so she's fine right you know if she had 400 she'll be fine she had 300 she'd probably be fine okay but if it gets down in there and she's at 200 is all that's left I'm kind of on the bubble at that point with her now if

you're making 40 and you're paying off $40,000 house you got 200 left that's a lot that's right you know so it's that

that's the ratio kind of thing I'm looking at is is the way I'm pulling that through but um and I always feel

it's it's it's under appreciated on

either side um I I I want to tell a

70-year-old dude if you don't have a house payment don't have a house payment like because no one can take it from you right you do you do want you want to get there and the other side of it is don't

yeah don't melt everything cuz if you melt everything you're one of those people that's house poor right and you're digging up the bushes to eat yeah you go but you got nothing to eat but you got to pay for house we don't want to get you there you're completely 100%

leveraged with Social Security which that's wobbly right that's real wobbly well I mean it's just not enough you can't have to buy Alpo to eat and so um

yeah we don't want to get there either but that's she's done a really good job she's in really good sh Kim Kim's done

good job Kim so well done salute this is

how you do it boys and girls so here's the thing that's the stuff you want to aim at cuz when you're 60 and she's 63 I'm 63 if your home is

paid for your largest line item in your

budget is taken care of for the rest of your life the expense is limited to almost to

taxes insurance for the rest of your life versus if you're a renter it goes

up every year for the rest of your life

or if you got a house payment you got a house payment every year for the rest of your life so this where we want to get away from is this rest of your life

stuff that's not good this is the Ramsey

Show [Music]

sh [Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music] Dr John delone Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thanks for joining us

listen no one wins at anything by

accident winning is a series of

incremental intentional max if you want

to get your body in good physical

condition it's a series of

incremental acts and none of them

involve a Big Mac right I mean we know

what we know that we know right if you

want to have a good marriage it involves

flowers there's a series of incremental

positive acts it involves other things a

lot more important than flowers but it even involves flowers my wife who detests flowers money being spent on

flowers because it's a complete waste

still Smiles every time she gets the

complete waste delivered to her front door okay so shut up about it but there

we go so there we go I mean there's a series of and money's no different if you're going to win with money we know

that the people that win with money are the people that tell the money what to do instead of wondering where it went they have what's known as a plan they

don't accidentally win that's why the

lottery is such false hope and why it

makes me so angry not from a moral

standpoint but when I know that 80s

something per of the tickets on the lottery are bought from poor into town

zip codes that's people that have been

sold false hope by their government and

in Tennessee that money is used to send rich people's kids to college which I

think is just a wonderful wealth transfer from poor people to rich people

take money from poor people and send rich people's kids to college and call it the lotto and everybody's happy

that's what we did in Tennessee it's gross what they did in Georgia so um

that's how bass Awards the whole idea is

so but winning with money is a series of

incremental acts that are intentional

with the money and that's a budget you

got to write it down you got to tell your money what to do you got to give every dollar an assignment and then make it freaking behave get a whip and a

chair and crack the whip you are a money Tamer like a lion tamer if you remember the old cartoons right and we're going to make

them make them get up on the little po Podium the whole thing make Peta mad we're going to do every bit of that right and so make the animal behave make

the money behave you are a money Tamer

that's your budget give every dollar a name that's why we named the world's best budgeting app when we started building it several years ago every dollar now every dollar also is incrementally better it gets incrementally better every month and

we're adding features to it we're adding things to it that make it better and better and better and better and better it is the world's best budgeting app

tens of millions of people manage their

money on this and if you want to download every dollar for free in the App Store you can and then you should

actually use it after you download it

downloading it doesn't count it doesn't

work by osmosis you got to open it up put your stuff in it sit down with your spouse and make it behave use the app

store use the Google Play or go to everydollar.com and get started for free

this is the Ramsey Show Kendall is in Charlotte North Carolina hi Kendall welcome to the show how can we help hey

thank you so much for having me um so my

husband wants to go back to PA school um

which is going to be like

$100,000 so I'm kind of just trying to

figure out like I've just finished saving up our emergency fund and was

kind of like getting ready to start paying down some of the debt that we

have um and I'm just trying to figure

out like how to best prepare for these

student loans we're going to have to take out like you know do I just keep trying to save as much as I can I don't he's also gonna have to um leave his job

in order to go back to school so we'll go down to one income so just trying to

figure out how to best prepare for that

well you're you're kind of new to this Ramsey stuff and he obviously doesn't

even care about this Ramsey stuff so

let's let's back up about 53 steps for a

second here what's your uh what's your

household income today um 110,000 and what does he do

today um he's an athletic trainer sports

medicine for what um athletic trainer

for sports medicine okay all right and

what does he make 50,000 okay and so you

make 50 and some change right uh yeah I

make about 60 I make a little bit more what do you do um I'm also an athletic

trainer that was a great Flex I mean I make 60 I make a little bit more well

well done yeah an athletic trainer that

flexes there we go so um the uh that's

perfect boom and um

so how much Deb have we

got um so we have uh we ow two uh

255,000 on the house I have 20 in

student loans um and then we owe 5,000

on our cars that's it yeah okay all

right so

um here's what I would tell you and and

the thing is this the way I answer

questions is what's going to put you guys in the best possible position in

every part of your life 10 years from

now and 20 years from now not 10 months from now right okay I really don't give

a crap about 10 months from now if

you're completely uncomfortable and you

hate me 10 months from now that's

perfect okay but if that makes you

completely the best place you've ever been in your life 10 years from now in

other words it's much like training um

you're going to have some discomfort in order to build some muscle

agreed the the tearing and the lactic

acid and so forth am I on to something

there um yeah yeah my metaphor is

working is all I'm saying and so yeah um

the um so what I would say is being a PA

is an excellent career choice completely

endorse his dream there's not a

chance in the heavens that I would go

into debt to do it no

way oh I'm not kidding it's not a

laughing matter I really wouldn't yeah the best life you can have

is for him become a PA and figure out a

way if you'll listen for a minute that

we don't go into debt to do it the first

step is to pay off the debt that you have the second step is to build an emergency fund and then the third step

is while he's looking for scholarships

and while he's applying for Grants and

while he's talking to his employer who might need a PA talking to some hospitals in the area who would hire him immediately as a PA might even put him

on now as an OnStaff sports trainer and

they might have a scholarship program

for employees who knows there's lots of

ways to get people to pay for your education mhm and um and or save some of

it after you don't have $25,000 in debt

that delays him starting PA

school but it doesn't delay it a decade

it delays it two years uhhuh or a year depending on how

many scholarships he can find and grants he can find but the chances I'm going to

tell you to sign up for $100,000 worth

of hell called student loan debt is zero right

that's zero I I love you too much to

want you to do that I don't want that

for you that's living a dream in such a

way that you turn it into a

nightmare so so you're saying try to

save up as much as possible prior to him

going and then try and see and try and

see where we can get the grants and some employment help yep and or future

employment who's going to hire in the future listen there's such a shortage right now people want Pas and Pa such a

solid degree field that you can get some

help it's there believe me we work in this stuff every day and and oh by the

way where you become a PA which school

he goes to does not

matter right the percentage of people

that walk into your office when a PA and ask you where you went to school before you touch my body is

zero it's zero how many people ask you

went to school before you did sports medicine before you stretched them

zero none they don't care about your

dadgum little fancy School title all

they care about is do you know your

stuff right yeah I'm old I've been to

doctors my whole life never asked one where they went to school John can you

what's the range on PA schools John's got a PhD and higher ed I mean you don't

have to spend 100 Grand do you

conceivably no you can there's a million

different schools does he already have one in mind yeah so we're we're trying to do a

local one you know we don't we don't want to relocate um so there's like

three or four he can apply to okay um

and they kind of range from like 80 to

$10,000 there you go so you've already knocked off $20,000 which in y'all's

life is a year of your life of saving

money right so find the 81 and like Dave

said go Beat the Streets maybe he goes

and goes to a community college and gets a nursing certificate first and then they'll help pay for the transition from nursing school to PA school there's all different other avenues you can take to get here but Dave's right once you decide you're not going to borrow money and do it the stupid way all of a sudden

some of the smart ways start sticking out in front of you it's amazing Yeah scratch around and do this right kiddo

this is the Ramsey Show

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[Music]

Dr John delone Ramsey personality is our

co-host today thank you for joining us

America we're so glad you're here we

invite you to drop by and see us here at at Ramsay we are about 12 mil south of

Nashville in a little town called Franklin which is absolutely

fabulous and uh lots of people come by

the Ramsey Solutions headquarters there's a big Lobby where you can have

some homemade cookies and coffee at our

expense we love treating you we like

having you come in here and it smells like Mama's Kitchen not Corporate

America and uh we want you to go through

and see the stuff and hang out and and

we do the show on the glass from 1 to 4

every day central Time Monday through

Friday and you're welcome to drop in Dr

John does his show on the glass in the mornings a couple times a week Ken

Coleman couple times a week uh smart

money happy hour is not done on the glass because they're out of control and

we don't know what they're going to do next but um also in this Lobby we built

a little thing right here on the glass is it's a we call it the debt free stage

which is where you stand to tell us your debt free story and do your debt free scream on that St age is John and Sarah

hey John how are you guys doing better

than we deserve cool where do y'all live

uh we live up by Green Bay Wisconsin oh

very fun well welcome to Nashville and

how much debt have yall paid we paid off

just about 102,000 mhm and how long did

that take all told about about six years

yep six years and two months six years

all right and your range of income during that six years uh we started out

right around 45,000 uh um with a little freelance we

got up to about 140 and kind of settled

back down at 125 gotcha okay cool what

do youall do for a living I am a uh

brand and Communications team lead at an

IT services company and I do prep at a

coffee shop excellent very cool what

kind of debt was the 102,000 um it was a credit card a couple

of loans from family um and our mortgage

you paid off your house did

looking at a couple of weirdos y way to

go you two so proud of you very very

well done so good job man good job so uh

what started this whole Ramsay uh walk

six years ago uh well I had been I had been

familiar with Dave Ramsey like 15 years

ago MH um we actually saw the book in a

bookstore and we're like we should do that we don't know if we have enough money to pay for the book didn't feel

like we could afford the book uh yeah so

um we kind of had a general sense of of

what Dave Ramsey was all about and um

paying off debt and those things but

weren't really on board at that point um

and kind of were normal we were living

um paying all of our bills on credit cards and then thought we were being responsible by paying the credit card off every month um of course that uh is

easier said than done and inevitably you

get to the end of the month and I was

always concerned about do we have enough

money in the account to pay off the card

um and towards the end of the year often

there wasn't enough so we'd find ourselves carrying a balance and hope for a big um tax refund to to cover the

difference and wipe the Slate clean so

this was really um caused a lot of

anxiety you know it was never I never

felt comfortable never felt like we were getting ahead you weren't we weren't we

weren't and we didn't have a budget um

and I tried several times to figure out

the whole budgeting thing on my own but

it was just um a little too much for me

to to figure out on my own so fast

forward to about 2017 um we had been living this way and

I kind of just got to the point where I

felt like I'm tired of feeling anxious

and unsure all the time

um decided to look uh back into the the

budgeting thing and ended up you know

doing a bunch of Google Search searching and and finding the Dave Ramsey Show again so I started binging the show and

listening to other people's debt-free screams um and you happen to have the uh

$10 sale going on um now I can afford

the book now I could afford the book so

I I love it I bought The Total Money

Makeover I read it um told Sarah I think

we really need to do this for for my

sanity at least but I think for our future as well um I said fine I'll read

the book and then I read the book and I

said I guess we can try it let's let's

let's go and yeah so she wasn't fully on

board at first but uh we got going and

we tried the budget and um by the way

what you say about it taking three months to to get the budget right um is

absolutely true it was a total disaster

terrible um second month was pretty good

third month was pretty good um and it's

the rest uh is history there we go so

what's your home worth um well according to to Zillow

which I don't know if that's entirely uh

accurate but probably close to 250 way

to go you guys yeah wow that's got to

feel great yeah it does was it worth the

struggle oh totally I would do it 10,000

more times I mean I shouldn't have to at

this point but right yeah amen amen yeah

absolutely worth it way to go y'all way

to go excellent excellent so what was the what was the biggest struggle y'all had as a couple like both of you are

showing some hesitant was it because you know Sarah kept spending or John you always had a scam and an idea and a

spreadsheet what was it um I think it

was just we didn't have the tools uh we

found the every AF dollar app and it was

lifechanging and it was like okay it

goes to both of our phones everything's

joint we just you know we're all in it's

there's no excuses to not do it at that

point so like it that was really the big

unlock for me the every dollar app to be honest because I had tried doing doing

budgets before with spreadsheets and I'm just not a spreadsheet guy and the every

dollar app made it so simple and it laid

it all out for us and I that combined

with reading The Total Money Makeover finally um I felt like this finally is a

plan that I can follow I have steps that I can follow I can be intentional and

proactive which is the total opposite of

being reactive and and anxious all the

time so that was the the big thing that

was a sentence yeah that was like

statement right there I like it very good very good excellent excellent good

job you guys all right both of you what

do you tell people when they say how'd you pay off your house what's the secret

to getting out of debt just put your

head down keep on doing it just every

single month do the budget with the every dollar app in just every single month just like okay it's going to pay off in the end and it totally does and it's awesome it's just crazy cool yeah I

think for me the key was the budget and

um really closely related to that is being

on the same page and again having the

every dollar up and being able to go through that budget every month together

make a plan for our money um I had been

the one handling the finances kind of on my own previously so um this was a huge

change to be able to both be looking at

the same numbers and understand what we're making and what's going out um and

then be able to dream about it and dream together about like what can we do now that we actually know what our money is doing um so really making the budget and

being on the same page with your spouse

and talking about it and having the same

dream that's what's it like I'm looking

at your kids over here and my two kids

look to be about the same age as your kids talk about what it feels like as

the world's getting chaotic as schools are getting wonky as thank God we're

entering into another political season right what's it like knowing they can't

they're going to be all right like they you can't take your

house right when it all when all is said

and done they're going to be very reassuring and we're very we're very

religious people as well so it's like God's got this we got this we're going

to be fine yeah I think it's really hard

to put into words the amount of peace that that that brings knowing that we

don't owe a dime to anybody for anything

and um yeah it's just uh it's just an

amazing feeling very cool all right bring them up let's hear their names and ages and introduce them come on up guys

want to hear this so they've been through all this too no doubt they got parents that are heroes that's for sure

our oldest is Jonah he's 14 we have

Silas who's our youngest who is 10 and

we have Ella who is our middle and 13

all right very cool very cool we welcome

you guys beautiful family proud of you

Heroes well done very well done John and

Sarah Jonah Ella and Silas from Green

Bay westconsin Area 102,000 paid off

house and everything 6 years they did

did it making 45 to 125 count it down

let's hear a debt-free scream ready 3 2

1 [Music] we

yeah woo love

it way to go you

guys that's how it's done boys and girls

that's how it's done this is the Ramsey

Show [Music]

[Music]

[Music]

our scripture of the day is John 14:15

if you love me keep my

Commandments Elon Musk said when

something is important enough you do it even if the odds are not in your favor

John's in Seattle hey John welcome to

the Ramsey Show hey good good afternoon over to be

here good to have you sir how can we help you guys for probably the last five

six years

and um yeah I it's it's taken taken a

lot for me to to come forward and and uh

reach out to you guys um I am uh I used

to be a well I I had a major spending

addiction and I had gone through counseling to recover from that um

during my marriage and had just recently

divorced and unfortunately relapsed in

in that in those spending habits and I

am today I'm I'm uh renting an apartment um which is

quite expensive in this area as you can

imagine and I'm sitting on top of uh

$65,000 in debt um three of those are

are lines of of of credit that are in a

bad stat status that have not been paid

for probably 70 days past due and two of

them are in good standing um which one

is direct with my with my current Credit

Union and the other is for my vehicle right now and what do you make I have I

I make about 74 Grand a year and I I

drive for ride share programs in the

area and I have no

savings um I had I had had to uh before

my my divorce I had had to cash out my

401k and um eat through our our

emergency savings that was developed

because how long has it been since you've seen your counselor about your spending

addiction um it's been probably almost

two two years now why why haven't you gone

back um so I because I did right now I I

understand that the tools and the guidance that I was given I understand that I need need to Pivot and turn

around which I have hold on you got you

got hold on you got tools and guidance

that's cool yes but you know the Cornerstone of

every addiction recovery program is

sitting kneecap to knap with another person and saying do you still me do you

see me and do you still love me and you skip that part that's the shame

part that's the part you got to do you

can have all the tools in the world man you can Google how to lose weight you

got to sit with somebody it's hard you

can Google all these other

things you're voiding that hard part how

come did this divorce beat you

up uh yeah the divorce definitely was

was unexpected um but I I guess the the

reason why I I didn't think that I needed to go back to the counselor is because because I understood that I needed to Pivot immediately um I when the the credit

lines were had stopped receiving payment

that's when I that's why I decided to

completely stop touching any of those things um start paying I got myself into

this employment into this consistent

income and decided okay now I need to

get myself caught up make sure that I

have a stable home and start to to see

how I will take care of all of this debt

um which again I have not touched at all

since let me let me let me let me recap

just a second and then I'll make sure then we make sure we try to answer your question okay um okay so you had a

spending addiction you went to see a

coun and after the divorce you relapsed

when was the

divorce I'm sorry when is the divorce

yes sir um it it had start it had started uh

last year and concluded um okay so since

the divorce and since the relapse on the

spending you've not seen a

counselor no sir okay that's what that's

what I was trying to get to okay so John there's two possibilities here um and Dr

John uh um the data that I have seen is

old and I don't know how accurate it is

today but um we have a culture that

talks about every misbehavior as an as

an addiction and every misbehavior is

not an addiction sometimes it's simple

immaturity lack of self-control those

are not addictions it's not addictive

behavior that's just other things that

that the that the general public struggles with the last data I saw have

about 2% of the public with an actual

spending addiction there a a to an OCD

type Behavior okay uh does that sound

right I don't I hear it very very rarely

yeah it's very unusual it's not in the diagnostic and so um the I mean that's

just there's a uh a 12-step program

called debtor Anonymous that you can plug into that has to do with debt and it usually is full of people that have

just had un did not have the ability to

control spending for whatever reason and so they were labeling an addiction the

um rightly or wrongly I don't know but that's what I had read the definition of addiction if you ask me is it's a

behavior that I cannot compulsively stop

that that I continue to do despite its

nefarious consequences and that's what this guy's doing here yeah okay all right so and and if that's the case then

then if you're dealing with something that is at that level and it's not

simply stop it you're being stupid okay

cuz addiction stop it you're being stupid doesn't work okay addictions you have to they're

shame based and you have to meet with

somebody and get a coach get a counselor

and walk your way through it and and so

that's why John's recommending that and the fact that you've not done that is at the core so if we're going to put you in

the bucket if you're going to put you in the bucket or we are that says you are

an actual person who's struggling with an actual Behavior type based addiction

then you need to see a counselor you're

not going to self diagnose your way out

of this no matter how much I'm going to be honest the language he's using is

very addict language now I've got it figured out I just need to solve this I need to move this over here and I need to take care of this every person I've

ever met who struggles with any sort of addiction always has a plan and they just need to work the plan it's all and

it never works yeah right so you've got to get some help dude if that's you if

it's simply John's being a baby and JN

needs to straighten up and so forth that's different that is different than an addiction and I can't tell and we can't diagnose you on the phone but you're using the language to John Dr

John's point of an addict so I would

tell you that to sit down with that now

uh I did promise you that I would actually answer your question too rather than just sit here and diagnose you but the uh um so how can we best help you

today John do you

think well I I completely understand and

I'm I'm very open to what you guys are saying um I take full responsibility for

for every one of my decisions here um no

doubt I'm I'm very how can I best help

you today yeah we're up against the clock looking for in in parallel to that

is in parallel to the help that I need

to to do to the addiction is that I

wanted to know from you guys on your

advice on how I may best tackle my debt

I had spoken to my credit union about

either taking a personal loan or or they

had can't you can't borrow your way out

of it your first step is to get your

income your versus your monthly budget

needs High your income higher than your

basic budget needs so that you can get current once you're current then I'm

going to list the debts smallest to largest and I'm going to pay minimum

payments staying current on the on the

larger ones while I'm attacking the very

smallest debt with a Vengeance and then

of course you've got to remove any type of debt product from within Arms Reach

of you okay an alcoholic can't have a

bourbon collection okay so you've got a

you can't have a credit card collection you can't have a access to all these

things you can't do this so um you know

you've got to separate yourself from the

access to credit lines access to credit

cards and so forth make it hard to get

them get current then increase your

income and all you're going to be doing for a little while is work which is actually cool cuz you if you're working all the time you haven't got time to spend you're too tired and you're working all

the time you're you're busy you don't have time to do it some of the worst spending I do to this day is if I'm

bored and and so that that's a it's a

Devil's Playground so um yeah that's

what I would do is anything you can do that's legal and moral to increase your income and then start chunking on there

like a wild man and if we can help you

further brother you call us anytime we're on your team we love you we want you to win and I'm sorry you've been through everything you have appreciate you joining us that puts this hour of

the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of

Peace Christ Jesus

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a

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## 186. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY for July 5, 2024)


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:44 |

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[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music] today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships thank you for

joining us America Rachel Cruz Ramsey

personality bestselling auth multiple

times over and lately bestselling author

of the new book children's book I'm glad

for where I am the second in the series

she's my co-host today and my daughter the phone number is 8825

5225 that's 8825

5225 Adriana is in Dallas Texas hi

Adriana how are you hi I'm good thank

you so much for taking my call sure

what's up um so my husband passed away

about a year ago and um thank you how

long were you married um 13 years wow

how old was he he was only 41 waa what

happened it was a rare presentation of

colon cancer and it from diagnosis to

his death it was just under two years still was really fast I'm so sorry thank

you um so the biggest issue is that I

have life insurance money luckily we had

that um and I hired some financial

advisers and they're advising that I

invest in whole life life insurance for the kids um because there's a high

interest introductory interest rate and

there may be a um genetic component um

the other big thing is that I am intending to take over the mortgage on my house because it's in my parents name and I want to take it over um so they

have advised some credit you know to

have some credit in order to build my um

credit line I'm not working I'm

homeschooling and I'm getting Social

Security I'm just wondering are those the best to take and it's not what what

is well you obviously smelled a rat or

you wouldn't be asking right yeah and so

um are you sure these are financial advisers and not just insurance

agents um they have a financial um

planning I mean that's what they say they are okay what's the company well they uh they work with I

think the company with the whole life is New York I'm sorry it's eagle

strategies now New York but New York

Life New York Life yes yeah these are

insurance agents they're not financial advisers okay okay cuz the insurance

people don't know how to uh do anything

but sell insurance and they're not

licens to sell anything but insurance

but she said Eagle there was another event yeah but I mean you can't write

for a New York Life unless you're in a New York Life agent so they're captives

so uh it's not an independent so uh uh

you know this is just the name of the local New York Life office so no we're

we're not doing business with them you need to you need to move you're getting bad advice okay um and um so uh here's

the thing you've been through a terrible

thing at a very young age and um and

and so uh there's always uh a potential

genetic component anytime someone gets cancer that's why when you're doing a uh

life insurance of any kind um

application they ask about your parents

um and if they have died of cancer

because they want to see that because they're statistical correlations to that

at least susceptibility if not DNA issue

all and so on right I'm not a medical person but that's what the insur how the insurance World Views it and I do know that okay so um but but that doesn't

change what you need to be doing what

you need to be doing is taking care of your family what you're doing and

building some wealth for your future and

the kids' Futures and then when they

face something if they ever face it they

will uh let's say they're 28 and married

with two kids by then they should have

term life insurance in place um and then

if they had some kind of An Occurrence like you guys did uh then they would be

ready that way you don't buy whole life life insurance on a child because their

parent died of cancer that's

asinine okay mathematically okay and

it's just the B it's just Insurance AG I

mean if you ask a dog if it's hungry it

always says yes if you ask an insurance

agent if you should buy insurance they always say yes so I mean it's just

especially in the whole life world and

so no you and and you do need to get the

mortgage into your name instead of your parents' names and that's going to

require some other things but we don't need to go get in debt to cause that to

happen so here's what we're going to do

okay um we don't need anything from you

we're not trying to sell you anything uh

quite the opposite uh as people of faith

our book tells us to take care of widows and orphans and people that take

advantage of widows and orphans by the way really get in a bad place you don't want to be there and so we're going to do quite the opposite here uh I'm going to furnish you a ramsy coun a Ramsey

coach that's been through our training

completely free and let them let them

coach you through um how to get your

investment structured and how to get

this mortgage redone and handson rather

than trying to give you an insurance agent I mean give you an an answer on the radio and certainly not going to give you an insurance agent so I mean you may need some insurance all insurance agents aren't evil that's not what I'm saying I am saying that if you

ask a whole life agent if you should buy whole life 100% of the time they say oh

oh yes it's the answer to everything and

uh if you ask me if you should buy whole

life 100% of the time I say it's never

the answer to anything yeah and in her situation she has the two kids so you

you hit on the so you H dirty that he's

taking advantage of that emotion yes so

that on the health side but but the other component of whole life of what people get sold on too is the investment idea right and she was even saying yeah they have a high upfront interest rate so but for but for her to know that

there's other options on how to invest for your kids that you actually will end up they'll end up with more money a whole lot more than versus even just if

you put it in a fruit jar you'll end up with more than screwing around with a whole life insurance policy uh because

at least if something happens you've got the money in the jar these people take

it all it's it's the wor it's the payday

lender of the middle class that's how

bad it sucks mathematically it's

absolutely a scummy product and to play

on a Widow's emotions yeah about her

children might have oh

God that's particularly nasty yeah you

should be ashamed of yourself but they also are convinced agents are that that

it really is the best right I'm like they like well there's only two kinds there's ones that are dumb and are convinced as good a good product because that's the only way you could convince yourself is if you can't do math or

you're scum right you know you're

selling something or you're selling something you know is bad so that's but

I think for people listening though that's does it not give you a little bit chill to sell a widow her kids stuff

based on the death of her their dad I mean does that not just a little bit

hello people I mean that's nasty so well

and the good thing is is that there's

other avenues for both of these from the insurance rout all kinds of revenues totally a lot of stuff you can that's the that's the hopeful side what Happ almost all of it is better than this yeah and what happens you know I could imagine when she's sitting in their office and they're explaining it there's not there's not option A we could do whole life option b you could do term life and this an option see it's all one

thing right it's like this is the only option and so just to know that there's hope that there's so many so many things

out there for her to do she's going to

be okay financially and her kids are

going to be are going to be okay trying to give some hope trying to get some

hope yeah hang on Christian will pick up

honey we'll get you taken care of no cost to you zero this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

[Music] [Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

[Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today it's wedding and

graduation season and if you've been changed by what we teach and you want to help a graduate or maybe a young couple

start out the way they supposed to start

out there's a cool way to do it we call it the live and give box in the live and

give box I'm reaching for it here trying to get my YouTube self together uh The

Total Money Makeover book The Baby Steps

millionaires book two of my number one

best sellers but most importantly you

get signed up for Financial Peace University all in one kit and uh boy

wouldn't you love to have started out your life with that hello it's pretty

cool and if you've got a graduate out

there too Ken Coleman's book came out

this week called find the work you're

wired to do it includes the get clear

career assessment in it and so which is really

important if you're going to get started

you know and so again graduation and wedding season not a bad gift

particularly graduates right and um I

know you've already got a degree and whatever but yeah I want you to get

clear on it and the Liv and give box

check all of this at ramsy solutions.com

in the store if you want to go straight to the Box just ramsy solutions.com boox

for theive and give box Bryce is with us

in Louisville Kentucky hey Bryce what's

up hey thanks for having me sure how can

I help um so I have around 34,000 saved up

and um I make about

4,200 uh a month I spend probably 1,500

after bills and food and I was just

wondering inste of me putting money into

my 401k and uh instead could I just invest in

real estate and like put like rental

properties up and so I can have a stay

uh an income at all times Well you don't have the money to

buy a rental property I was going to go and take out

a uh FHA one yeah which tells me you

don't have the money to buy rental property so um we Bryce what we have

found is that the people that avoid

debt including rental properties are the

ones that Prosper I own a bunch of real

estate I love real estate I'd love for you to own some real estate since you want to someday as a part of your life

but I want you to pay cash for it do you

own the home your living

in um yes okay is it paid

off yes good good for you what's it

worth um I got a praise last year it's

probably worth 120,000 good it s out so

I got it for 30 wow you got a deal good

for you well that's cool so I'll tell

you what I did and I would recommend you do something similar okay we recommend

that if you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund in place then we do baby steps four five and six and baby step four is 15% of your income which is uh you know

uh you're you're making like 50 $60,000

a year okay and so we're talking about

$7 $8,000 a year is all okay going into

your 401K Roth preferably if they have a

Roth available and with a match that'd be wonderful and some good mutual funds

beyond that I started saving once my

house was paid off to buy my first real

estate after I had gone broke in real

estate by having too much debt so um by

the way but yeah so so anyway I I just

took an SNP fund and I started chunking

money beyond my 15% into that S&P and

when it got to be enough in there to pay cash for my first little rental that's

what I did you're probably not that far

from doing

that like what price range would you

spend for your first rental

Bryce um so I was going to buy 10 acre

lot for 75,000 and then I can get a used

uh trailer that was repossessed for 10,000 they redo it and everything and then it cost me 5,000 get it put in and

then I already have someone put in my septic for 2,000 problem is that won't

go up in value only the dirt will not

the trailer so I would not invest in that as a

rental uh because I want to invest in a

home uh or a duplex or something that's

going to go up in value not go down in

value and so um the only time I would

look at trailers is if you bought a whole trailer park and they cash flow

like a bandit they make so much money uh

cash on cash return it's unbelievable

but you've got the constant problem of

taking them out of service because they deteriorate

yeah and you don't no you don't want to take a nice subdivision a good piece of

dirt and put a trailer on yeah how old are you Bryce 19 you're 19 yeah you got plenty

of time to do this got lot of time yeah and I would say too Bryce just to this

point it's going to take you and you're you're a smart guy I'm like you're already at 19 you're like thinking of ways how can I wheel and deal and you know make some money which is so great

and then this process it's going to take you longer but I think having a goal as

you do the math out and say okay what

how long will it take to save up cuz where you are in Louisville Kentucky I'm like save you know 150,000 and go find a foreclosure

at some point this may be years down the road and that be your first like find

the deal on the on the sale and just say

yeah this is be my first and you just slowly build but the frustrating thing about this process price is that it's slow but the great thing about it is

that it carries so much peace with it it carries so much peace you're not stressed and by the way I've bought over

2,000 pieces of property and Rachel's

husband Winston doeses this for a living

now it's what he does he's in the real estate business and um he was trained

here with me running my property and so

he's doing the we're both doing the exact same things we're telling you to do yep um and we're but we're just

decades past you we're you know 20 30 40

years beyond your process but I I

remember the first time I finally got $150,000 saved up and oddly enough

that's what it was to buy that first property and I had it laying there in that mutual fund and then I looked around and F found a bargain and um and

there there we go you know and as soon as you get about three of these that you own that are paid for the rents coming

off of three paid for properties are

pure they're not going to the bank

you're not paying any payments on them so that pure rent Stacks up fast and you

can buy another property ever so often

just off of the rents get a positive

snowball and Winston and I what we've done too like there was a condo we got our very first rent was a condo um and

and foreclosure nasty thing it was like a one bedroom one bathro I mean it was it nasty it was really nasty it wasn't much but we fixed it up did it and then

eight years later it doubled and so we

were like well we could sell that go to

you know find another deal somewhere else you can even Step Up in property too as you go through this process if you don't want to just hold on to that chy condo we did wow we did that thing

was like a family member it had been around a while it was your first one it

was your first Winston was attached that was good not you that was

fine I trusted him I was like if that's

that's good I did not know the junkie condo was gone that's Al it wasn't junky

anymore it wasn't junk that's how

started out how it started out but it is fun Bryce and I think that is I think a lot of people are interested in that

like this idea that investing sounds

sounds boring but it's a tried and true

way to build wealth so do it but then

the other the other offshoot of investing and what you're talking about and you're actually going to talk about it at y'all's investing live stream coming up um is real estate and people

really are interested and and it is it's

a great you love it I mean it's a great it's a great way to kind of diversify

even your wealth building when it comes to that I've made a lot more money in real estate than I have in mutual funds

and I've also uh but I've also put more

money in real estate because I'm a real estate person and uh the mutual fund so

my personal net worth is probably 80%

real estate um you know between mutual

funds and real estate anyway not count not count this business that I own and

that kind of stuff but yeah it's very interesting so Bryce the the key is it's

very difficult at any age but it's

really difficult to go slow when you're

19 please listen to the old people go

slow the people who go slow in real

estate are the ones that are still doing it 20 years later the ones that go fast

get burned and they get to start over

again which is what I did when I was I

started buying real estate when I was 22 and by the time I was 28 I was broke and

so um went from nothing to a millionaire

to broke between 22 and 28 and so I just

don't want that for you I want you to just go slow I I don't want I don't want

your face on the front of Fast Company magazine I want your face on the front of slow company magazine so slow real

estate slow real estate magazine which

is which is everybody in America right

now let's be honest yeah you're not going to be a tick tock sensation I can

promise you and not if you're doing it

right this is the Ramsey Show

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[Music]

[Music]

[Applause]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage Kevin

and Katie are with us hey guys how are you hi good how are you good better than

we deserve welcome where do you live we're from Keen New Hampshire little

Northwest of New Hampshire fun welcome to Nashville how much debt have you paid

uh

$122,800 and two months four years and

two months good for you and your range

of income during that time we started at

about 60,000 and ended up at about 130

wow nice doubled your income in four

years yes sir how'd you do that uh I

asked my boss to just bury me in work

and he obliged yes he did what do you

what do you do I'm an independent insurance adjuster oh very good okay so

it is you got it you can do that yes yep

okay and uh what about you Katie what do

you do um I'm stay-at home Mom and

homeschool mom love it good for you guys

well done all right so this is all that

income change is all uh all on your boss

Barry in you yeah excellent Prett much good very good very cool what kind of debt did you was this 123 uh it was a

multitude of just about everything uh

student loans two cars credit cards

medical bills uh don't think I'm missing anything else yeah about that but just normal you were normal yeah yeah how long you'all been married almost 13

years so nine years into the marriage

give or take eight years into the marriage something happened what happened um well uh first off we just

want to thank you and thank God for

putting that blessing and that call on

your heart to help us and help the

millions of people that you've helped so far and we'll continue need to help um

and that's really where our journey began is is getting into our Bible and

getting back to those biblical principles that are buried in there that

we just needed to go find um and you

really brought them to light for so many people and including us um but when uh

about four years ago uh almost 5 years

ago we went in to go get uh diapers for

our middle child at the time and I went

through probably about three or four different cards and I couldn't buy them

o and I walked out back to the car and

sat down next to Katie and said we can't

do this anymore yeah yeah that break

break a dad's heart yep I couldn't buy diapers from my daughter yeah that that'll that'll put an end to it m and so you go home and you're like okay we're selling everything yep yep we uh

we pulled the old book off the shelf cuz the book went through eight different moves with us and never read it n no

which which one Total Money Makeover yeah it was the work we he that a lot we

hear this a lot this is a very Money Makeover America's coaster on your

coffee table yeah exactly oh my gosh so

Katie when that moment happens you're sitting there in the car are you thinking oh thank god let's do something or were you like wait is it that bad oh

gosh like what was your reaction in that moment yeah I mean it was just like a feeling of dread like everything that

we've done trying to live normal just

didn't work like at all for us it all

came crashing down um and then yeah we

were pretty much all in we talked to our

um our pastor at our church and they

were offering FPU oh good went through

fin yep we got into a class right away

yep um we we even we had to travel like

an hour for it yeah we drove an hour for

it uh to conquered New Hampshire wow um

and then shortly thereafter the next

February of 2020 we let our first class

ourselves wow yeah literally a couple

months after we got out we decided yeah

we're going to lead our own yep class and then right in the middle is when Co hit of course January of 2020 yeah of

course so oh man what which debt was it

for you guys that you were like oh it's

gone I'm so glad I'm so glad it's gone

card cards oh for you yeah it was

student loans for me okay okay okay oh

yep it was that last one where it was

just over the hump especially during

when you're right in the middle of it all and the longer the the longer that

you're doing it the higher debt is that you're trying to pay off so that snowball it works but we the mountains

to climb yeah yep back the back of it's

steep it was 50,000 so it was almost half of our debt was the student loans at the end y yep and we we paid that all

off in one year we were just that was our last year just so you did half of it

in three years and the other half in one year yeah we had a baby along the way so

that slowed us down and I had a surgery

as well right after I had the baby oh my

gosh yeah definitely happened then that

math is fair yeah that's good that's good way to go guys you persevered you

kept with it you kept with it you kept with it why didn't you

quit well you saw one of them coming up

on the stage I don't ever want to have

that feeling again of not being able to buy diapers yep yep I can't wait to buy

somebody a pack of diapers that's struggling with their cards at that I see at Target or Walmart or whatever wow

I can't wait to go and buy you may buy a

whole bunch of diapers in your life before this is over God may just keep

keep putting them in line in front of you y yep we'll just Keep On Blessing I

love it that's fabulous what do you guys

say to families out there cuz I have three little ones too and I just know life is just tiring right you're in a really tiring season and as you're home all day with the kids while he's working extra right so you probably feel like a single mom half the time while he's while he's gone you're exhausted so what do you say to families out there listening and they're like there's this

is just not the time this isn't the time to do it we're so tired we're barely

getting by like I don't know I don't

know what would you say to them um I

would just tell them to continue to communicate with each other because

that's been the key to this whole thing

um don't give up to keep on going no matter how grueling it gets no matter how long the days are no matter how much

time that you feel like you don't spend with your kids they're still going to be there they're they're very resilient they're still licking lollipops and

laughing along the way um but just to

keep on going don't give up yeah it's

good it's never too late to start I mean

we were married for years and years and

um at one point we had said we're always

going to have a car payment always he it

came out of his mouth and now we're

never going to that's not like a statement of principle it's a statement of hopelessness exactly we've been there

and you can turn it around you can turn

your perspective around so good you guys

oh amazing well thanks to your pastor

for teaching Financial PE University at his church and it was there at just the right time go figure I knew yeah so

great yeah very cool good for you guys I'm so proud of you well done you're Heroes you're Heroes to those little kids you changed their whole family tree

so well done y'all so well done you're

on the opposite of the spectrum from not being able to buy diapers to buying diapers for the rest of your life there you go for other people this time there

we go I like it if you live like no one

else later you can live and give like no

one else that's how that works all right bring the kiddos up what are their names and ages so we've got Isaiah is mhm Mia

is five M and Levi is three all right

and we got matching dresses with Mom

that's pretty cool I like that they've been practicing

their debt free screaming the car right here all the way down yep from New

Hampshire to Tennessee that's a lot of practice lot wow lots of

Advil for you

yes very good guys I'm so proud of y'all

Heroes you're amazing you've done

something that's absolutely not normal

be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

you're amazing thank you so much thank Youk you well well done all right Kevin

and Katie I Isaiah Mia and Levi

$123,000 paid off in four years and two

months making 60 to 130 of buried in my

work count it down let's hear a debt

free Scream 3 2 1 we're de

three oh very

good very

cool cute kids and I think I think Mia

wins the award maybe I she got it down

and then went right back to the lollipop right after the stream very well done

good stuff you guys very cool so

encouraging you do this at any stage of

life with any income with any situation

when you decide to change that's when

things change no external force is going

to do it no matter who's in the White

House you still got to fix you this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

what

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you know it doesn't take a degree in

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rey.com Ramsey

[Music]

[Applause]

[Applause] Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Clayton is with us in

Charleston South Carolina hi Clayton how

are you I'm good how are you'all better than

we deserve what's up so I got a question for y'all uh my

wife and I just bought our first house

um and I'm currently a UPS driver I make

$30 and so 8 C an hour and my wife is a

doctor's assistant she makes about 23 an

hour so overall we make a little over

$100,000 a year uh which is

great but uh I just got recently a job

offer it is a pay cut but it is a better

quality of life um we have no debt other

than our house we owe

$244,000 left on our house we

put uh about $70,000 down on the house

um and I just want to know what do you

think I should do should I stay where I'm currently at and work to pay this

this house off or should I take this job

and get a better quality life able to be

around with my family and you know give

me the able to start having kids my wife

everything so we don't have any kids

right now so your family is your

wife yes okay all right and I'm confused

how many hours a week are you working as a UPS

driver anywhere between 55 to 60 hours a

week are you able to cut back on just

your hours there if you wanted

to unfortunately no uh the way it works

is whenever you start is the start time

that they give us and then whenever you're you're finished delivering is when you're finished okay so when unfortunately there's nothing else okay what's the um what's the price like what

are you going to be making the difference in income So currently I'm

3075 and then the new job will be

2538 an hour and have you run about A5

jump okay yeah and have you guys run the

math on it's not a $5 jump because you're going to be doing 40 hours instead of 55 correct so it's a it's a it's a 50%

pay cut yeah you're not going to be working

as many hours and you're going to be making less per hour cor right have you guys run a

budget to see like to just to see hey if

I took this new job and with the pay cut

and the hours I'm going to be working here's what we have left

and like this is this will be our life

financially have you guys run those

numbers we have but I just feel like

we're missing something and yeah you're

running it at 55 you're running it by the hour that's what you're missing right you need to run the actual

totals and then and then you're going to

realize that you're taking a $35,000

your pay cut no you don't need to take this job that's bull crap you weren't

looking for a job this thing popped up and it's not the answer to your problem

okay well I was looking for a job okay

well see C is what you want you want a

job that pays what UPS is paying without

working 55

hours not by not by the hour by the

total so I want you to find a career

you're making about $70,000 a year

right yes sir okay and I also get a pay

jump this year too good I want you to

find a career that pays 70 to $80,000 a

year and start working your way towards

that career working 40 hours or

so um now I I I've done work for UPS

speaking to your your guys's Executives

and I know a bunch of UPS drivers and

retired UPS people and the the stock

plan is incredible uh I mean

and I I don't know exactly how where you

are what you're doing works but my

feeling would be Clayton that you could

probably pick another route over time

that got your hours down yeah I was going to say as you move up in seniority right yeah yeah is that not how it works let

me uh yeah yeah as you move up in

seniority you can get a better route and

stuff but there's at my Center there's

over a 100 drivers and I'm currently

night like number 70 so that's going to

be like 10 15 years it's no it's not

they don't stay you got turnover in

there they don't all have to die

off yeah and so um I I think you need to

talk to some guys around there and find out how long it's going to take you to get into a more reasonable route

situation uh where you can control the

thing because you're low man on the totem pole right now so you're getting crappy runs that have long hours uh of

course holidays you've got crappy runs that have long hours it just goes with your territory but UPS is uh a company

of work hard and pays well that's the

company right they have a real work

ethic culture um it's one of the reasons

that they were attracted to me uh and

vice versa so uh it's been many years

ago that I did that but just the same I

came away from my time working with

their executive teams and stuff uh with a respect for your all's culture um and

so but no I I think if you want to work

less hours you need to figure out how long it's going to take you to get there at UPS as a possibility also say okay

what career field can I start moving towards and if it takes me a little while to get towards that career with some of the steps that king Coleman outlines I would do that but this

presupposing that I'm going to cut my pay in half so I can work 40 hours and

so I can be home with the dog um nah nah

Clayton how old are you let me ask can I ask you that how old are you yeah I'm

I'm 26 and my wife is 27 I actually

wanted to say something else real quick too with this new job my hours will be

40 a week but I go in at 6 and I clock

out at 2 so it gives me the opportunity

to pick up a second job uh so where's

the quality of life increase dude

well now you're back to 55 hours a week

and you're just making

less I guess yeah yeah now you picked up

a a side hustle so you're you know

unless that side hustle is taking you into something where you want to be when you're 36 no no I wouldn't do that um I'm not

saying UPS is the end all to be all I'm not if you if you want out of there I'll help you get out of there hang on I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book uh this new and find the

work you're wired to do to get clear assessment and I want you to take that assessment I want you to start thinking about what you really want to be not just what you make what is it you want

to do with your life and I will tell you folks out there

aside from this um I'm not about

workaholism I'm not about you abandoning

your family in the name of work and never knowing your children's names or

anything like that I didn't do that when our kids were growing up I went through a season where I work my tail off

16-hour day but it was a season it was not a

lifestyle and uh the children were

little bitty and um you know their

mother would tell you that she was a single mom during that time but she and

I talked it through it's what we were doing to start this place that I operate

today it was the foundation of this

place in the '90s I was doing that and

so it was a period of time I meet almost

no one who has a high quality life that

has left their mark on their family and

on on this Earth that does it on 40

hours just I'm going to work 40 hours my

whole life you're just you know yeah for

a period of time if you're training for a marathon you have to

sweat now do you have to do that every

single day no when you finish you know when you hit the next time you take a little time down okay but you work like

no one else so that later you can work like no one else and you know you're

just now getting involved and I don't know I guess all your friends are out partying while you're working cuz you're 20 4 um and you know that's going to show

are you're 26 they going to show up in

their Liv there season there's seasons of sacrifice and and and for Clayton and

I don't know I'm just making this up but I'm like yeah there could be a season you're an entry-level guy you got the

crappy root and you do that for two

years and then you get a better route better pay and you know what I mean but like there's you don't get to start off and not that he's saying this but you don't get to start off you know at the top necessarily and so um it was funny I

was doing career day at my oh third

graders little class and they said where did you start off I was like I started off going to assemblies and high schools

all across America and I did that for like you know three years staying who

knows I didn't get paid yeah I mean who knows where in these yeah these small

towns and all of it but you know that again there's just there is that level of sacrifice but then there's a clip going around on you on on on on on the

socials and you're like work 80 hours a week so everyone does think that you're just like a workolic well I know every

wants to and moan some of that

just but yeah if you want something to whine about you can find a clip of me to whine about that's not hard I've done

50,000 hours of radio there's plenty of

me saying something out of context that'll get you where you want to go for your little Tick Tock clickthrough this

is the Ramsey Show

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brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Rachel Cruz number one

bestselling author including her two

book series so far on children's books

I'm glad for where I am just a recent

bestseller for your kiddos it's the

second one in that Series be sure and check it out she's my co-host today and

my daughter open phones at

88255 225 Katie's in Minneapolis hi

Katie how are you hi good thank you how are you better

than I deserve what's

up um I'm calling because I have a

daughter uh who's going to be graduating college this month um she's going to

have about $80,000 in student loan debt

good Lord um I know so here's the thing

my husband and I knew inheritance money

would be coming our way so we didn't push back on her going um out of state

where there's higher tuition and we didn't really tell her we would pay for her colle but we told her we'd figure it out because we thought we might be able to do that and um that would be money

coming from his side and my side so my

husband and I divorced when she was a sophomore in college and then after the

divorce I did get my inheritance money

and so I have enough to pay it in full

and I want to do that very much I want

to help my daughter um the only thing I'm just wondering is should I pay it in

full or or have him ask and he would be

willing if he had the money he's just kind of I don't know if he has it right now to take on half of that burden of

helping her does he have the

40,000 not right now he does not okay

all right um does the divorce decree demand

that you two pay this or is this just something you all sort of kind I had a

discussion about once way back there and never talked about it again uh correct there's nothing in the

divorce decree on this yeah your

ex-husband's not going to give her any

money well yeah I I think he wants to

and he would if he could um so that's

where I'm thinking what I could do is just pay it in full and then ask him to

pay me later but I don't think I will ever yeah that yeah um I mean if you're

if you're on speaking terms with him and you want to pay it in full say I just paid it off one time we talked about it

and you said you'd pay half if you can ever give her the other 40 maybe she could use that towards a house or

something okay yeah because it it was a

quite oh go ahead yeah it's okay so if

you mean if you can have that conversation that would be fine but then

but then forget it it's over you know

you don't get to go back later and go where's that money right right you just you just drop

it you made a decision and you made a

comment and you moved on that's what I

would do cuz otherwise this is going to ride around rentree in your

head yeah and and we we're we're quite we're

friendly it's quite amicable um

situation not relative if he doesn't

ever give her money yeah and it bothers you and you

lay awake and he doesn't think about it again you'll be the only one thinking

about this on the planet how much did

you get from The Inheritance Katie

um well quite a bit I was able to uh buy

my own home after the divorce with it

what's quite a bit how much did you get

do you feel comfortable saying it or no sorry just under a million okay yeah so

you have a paid off house how are you doing financially because that's almost what I'm want to make sure that you know

this money is being I mean it's 80 grand so I'm like I want to make sure Katie you're you're set up well um for your

future retirement I mean like looking

like we talk about doing that laying that foundation for the parent first

before the kids and so yeah making sure

that yeah where you are financially is in a good spot so you bought your house outright so you have no mortgage correct and how are you doing

with retirement Investments and

everything um I am I think I'm okay I

have 700,000 um in an IRA well in an IRA 85

in a 401k

a the house is worth what

um 500,000 and you're how

old 55 cool so you're a 55y old married

I mean divorced millionaire cool that's

neat oh thanks to my mom I know and so

we want to honor that memory by being wise if I'm in your shoes yes I would

write a check based on what you have told me and pay off your daughter student loans and yes I would make a

phone call to the ex and say hey remember when we said that I just paid the whole thing when you get ready to pay her your half like you promised someday she can use that for her first

house or something else and um I'm not

letting you off the hook I wanted you to know I had done it though and drop it after that forget it ever happened just walk away and never think a thing about it again can you do that I can do that okay because I don't

want this becoming this constant thing

like when's he going to do his part you

know and all that because you're doing your the only person you can control is

you and you can't control him

and you know you're you're saying it's

amicable and he intends to and you have

faith in him um you know I've just been

doing this 35 years my faith in the ex

following through on a promise is fairly

low you know it's just fairly low I just

see you know I guess nobody calls this show and says oh my ex followed through

that doesn't happen because we get only

the other ones yeah but but yeah I just

want to let you know Dave no I mean that

cuz I guess some of them do but I mean we just don't run into it and thank God for you know that she oh I hate to say

that because it it was her mom's passing so I I didn't mean that but just that she's in the situation she's in because that's another reason why we say don't

take on debt because life happens and

they had this plan yeah and then ends up

getting divorced in the middle of school

and if this inheritance hadn't come this daughter you know if it's a Parent PLUS Loan I'm like yeah both could be on the hook but also I don't know what the daughter signed I don't know how they did the the student loan agreement but

the daughter signed up for she got she could have been 80 I mean she would have been 80 Grands thinking like we'll we'll

take care of it too so that's the aster

too of the story is that you're taking

on risk always always always always when

you take on this de and life rarely

plays out exactly how we have it planned

out like never yeah so it's it's just

that that word of caution but um Katie

I'm so sorry that's a hard season Katie

you know losing your you know your mom

the divorce in the middle of of it and it's just that's hard that's really hard but this is a redeeming beautiful thing that you'll be able to do from a financial aspect um to be wise with so

I'm glad you called in very good very cool good stuff so yeah the the cool

thing about student loans is is they shouldn't be there at

all almost all of student loan debt is

based on someone choosing to go to a

school that they could have gone to a cheaper school and paid

cash almost every time you're choosing a

school you can't afford just like

choosing a car you can't afford and so I

I can buy a car to drive around for

$5,000 I have

$5,000 or I can buy a $50,000 car

because it's a nicer car and go $45,000

in debt that's a choice

it wasn't a requirement to have

transportation it was you chose poorly

and you choose to go to a school you freaking can't afford moms and dads you

need to teach you need to learn a new

word no it's a new word try it no everybody

practice with me no this is the ramsy

show [Music]

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[Music]

regel Cruz ramsy personality is my

co-host I was going over my notes this

morning to get ready to speak this

weekend at The Total Money Makeover

weekend

I am so excited to get to do this I

haven't done the classic Total Money

Makeover material in a while and I'm

getting to do some stuff I haven't done yeah before this Total Money Makeover

weekend um I I'll be speaking of course

Rachel Jade George camel Ken Coleman on

how to get your income up John deloney on how to bring more peace to your life overall getting out of debt creating a

budget communicating better with your spouse easing anxiety investing in

building for retirement and it's a whole

thing we start on Friday night this coming weekend and go all through

Saturday and uh live taping of the hip

podcast smart money happy hour with Rachel and George we've got live Q&A all

through the thing it is going to be an

absolute blast and there's still some tickets left sadly I thought it would be

sold out by now but I was wrong so we'd

love to have you guys it's right here on the Ramsey campus this coming Friday May

10th and 11th you could come a little

early and watch the show be done we do the show every day from 1: to 4:00 Central Time on the glass following that

grab a bite te somewhere and then come on up up on top of the hill to the Ramsey Event Center and we'll be doing

the event so you can get your tickets at Ramsey solutions.com events and uh handful handful of tickets

left you can still get in and um we're

we're excited about doing this yeah it's going to be a fun weekend it's always fun our events are always enjoyable and

we'll all be there and I like that it's so money focused the whole weekend which

will be great yeah you'll laugh cry you

can uh bring that spouse that needs to be converted or that friend that thinks you're crazy and they will leave being as crazy as you yeah that can happen

Daniel's with us in Tallahassee hi

Daniel welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey Dave Rachel how are you guys

doing better than we deserve sir what's

up all right just a quick question so

basically um after some few time uh

after some convincing I did get my wife on board we are both on board when it comes to uh attacking our debt um I want

to be gazelle in T and if I can borrow the language you guys use she wants to be more on the intentional side while

still taking care of things uh that she

thinks are still important so I'm the

grumpy guy who says I don't want to do nothing um no more Christmas no more

gifts no more no no more nothing let's just be did you say no more

Christmas well no more yeah I want yes I

well no wonder you're unpopular

Grinch yeah I am Grinch I'm not a big on

the only because I'm like how can we strip down to the bare minimum I'll go

with that but I mean you start with

Christmas I'm I mean I'm cutting some of

your stuff before we're getting to Christmas buddy oh my gosh no wonder she's not

enthused about

you so my question well I guess I I

introduce her to we both uh I introduce

her to thinking funds and now we it

seems like we're starting to have a growing amount of sing funds so we can

stop dealing with things as they come up and it's helped we have the money when we need it but I feel like the syncing funds are taking a little too much of the margin and I would like to attack the debt at a more aggressive speed so I don't know how to compromise with her and we're running at different Paces here it seems like what are the syncing

funds for um let me pull up every dollar just

to give a few examples here but um so

every every dollar okay keep going sorry

go ahead um home for instance the

homeschool program every year comes around around August September we pay for that um we used to go into debt for

that but we stopped doing that since we stopped this whole how is that a

waste it's not a wa that's no some of

these are not a waste that's not a waste we need a for instance that's one of these things bothering you give us a waste that one's not bothering you if it is you got an

issue my girl's my daughter's birthday

um it's coming up this is so bad

um now that I realize okay but she wants

we're saving up some of that because um

how much are we planning to spend on the daughter's birthday

um I have twin girls so it's we're

setting aside 100 a month um you're

gonna spend $1,200 on a birthday party no it's

coming no no no it's about 500 it's

coming in it's coming in um August so

it's so 250 a kid

right okay so your argument is that that might be too much no I feel like they starting all

add up um well they're adding up because

they're real I mean that food thing it adds up

yeah because I think Daniel there could be an instance of like oh my gosh life is expensive where we all just been charging everything you said The Homeschool stuff we just go into debt for it you almost just delayed everything and now when you're paying for stuff so upfront it is going to feel

like yeah that there that there is more

yeah you're actually admitting what's going on now by doing a budget with sinking funds and you weren't before so

I I um unless it's a vacation right

gazelle intense I would say we don't do

vacations let's let's pause 12 months on the vacation eating out eating out we're going to pause like a couple of things to do but um but but the reality of life

and what life costs may be the thing

that's like oh crap this is this is a

lot and when we're cash flowing everything like what we teach you really

face oh my gosh our life is eating up so

much of our money because life is expensive so there could be stuff that you guys tweak here or there um but yeah

uh so Daniel it it sounds like that

um you're I don't think you're on as

different a page as you think you are I think your argument is not with her it's with reality you're struggling and so um let's give it a

month or two and just kind of see if this see if the emotions of this iron out okay I appreciate and embrace your

enthusiasm I appreciate and embrace your

passion to get this done those are keys

to getting it done and so you keep that

part going yeah but just don't blame I

don't think she's to blame nothing you gave me here was like that she's acting

like she's not intense I mean we're

going to buy clothes and we're going to buy food and we're going to pay for the homeschool materials and you know um

we're going to have a birthday party might be a little high but it's not it's

not you know it's not throwing you you off by two years thousand yeah right you

didn't tell me you spend 12,000 or 12 if you just said 12200 I'd probably say

that's a bit much but yeah but the uh um

and it depends on the age of the kid and all that kind of stuff too I mean if you got twin one-year-olds they don't even know you're doing this so you're doing

it for you so then then that's a

different thing so uh you know but it I but if they're

twin 10 year- olds they definitely know

they know everything about what's happening there and I guess a uh um a a

visit to the Magic Mouse Mr cheesy

what's his name Chucky cheesy Chucky cheesy yeah the Magic Mouse I guess

that's probably a couple hundred buck I was like Mickey Mouse I guess no I think I'm thinking Chucky's probably a couple hundred bucks to I mean per kid yeah I

mean those birthday parties at those places you're paying per kid and yeah so

I mean the packages it can be them down there I don't know what they cost but I've been down there when it happened 20 bucks a kid 30 bucks a kid for

stuff me and the mouse are in there

we've druged day chuckecheese indoor

trampoline parks there's been a lot of

great birthday parties yeah a lot of

great birthday parties there's not enough there's not enough disinfectant

in the

world oh there are some there are

some it's full of kids it's full of kids

little sweaty kids all over all the yeah it's just

nasty yeah h

but yeah I'm guessing that I mean I've been to those with the grandkids and I'm guessing you guys are shelling out yeah a couple hundred bucks so yeah I I would

say if you're getting out of debt the birthday party is probably at home you're ordering some pizza having some friends over and calling in to day I mean like you know what I mean if you're going to go just like yeah the simple

routes yeah and it can be done like it's

that's that's but the thing here Daniel I think is what as we talk through this

with you everything you brought to us

were things that were not out of

bounds and so it sound like your wife

with the sinking funds is like destroying your little plan it's more

like reality is destroying your little plan and dampering your in it's actually

a really great point I hadn't thought about that but for a lot of people that are starting this process when you say no debt yeah so that we can pay off debt

then those expenses are real it's not this like oh we can just worry about that later Kick the Can down the yeah

down down the road but that's the power

too though to his point is that's when you can cut some of those things you're

like oh my gosh what were we paying for that maybe there's a cheaper homeschool program or whatever right like that's when you actually start caring about the

expenses cuz you're you're seeing it in real time and in real life

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music] [Applause]

[Music] [Applause]

I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those

especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the

sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills the M next week yeah how in the

middle of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reupping it

because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if

something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much CU Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking

the time to put the stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so

that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander

for all of our family's needs for

insurance for many years including of

course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800 356 4282 that's 800 356

4282 or go to zander.com

[Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

solutions is the debt free stage on the

debt free stage is Ruben and Kirsten hi

guys how are you we're awesome hey Dave

welcome good to have you good to have you so where do you guys live Colorado

Springs Colorado Colorado all right well

welcome to Nashville good to have you

and how much debt have you two paid off

we paid off 270,000 in 5 years wow good

for you and your range of income during

that time we started at 72,000 and then

went up to 112 very good very good what

do you do for a living um we both work in the finance department of a software

Supply Chain management company AES very

same place same company that's fun did

you guys meet there um we actually met at a different location and we worked

together the entire time we known each

other just different places that's awesome so great so how long have you been married um it'll be six years next

month so right after marriage boom boom

we're getting out of debt y five years

game on what kind of debt was the

270 this was our house you paid off your

house looking at a couple of weirdos I

love it you're so weird what's this house worth um probably about 425 I love

it and how old are you two weirdos 30 30

years old I'm 31 he's 35 okay close

enough close is trying to get some youth

good good move Reuben well played yeah I

like it hey very good guys early 30s

that's amazing you so you get married and is this the was the only debt you've been working on or did you pay off others before that um so it started

about eight years ago but we cash flowed

my bachelor's degree um our wedding our

honeymoon to Alaska um just saved like

crazy and then during the payoff we

financed or not financed sorry we paid

off about 50,000 um in home renovations

yeah and paid 270 yes yeah way to go

guys what in the world happened to y'all

that made you so weird this is wonderful

like a year after marriage it's game on on the house yeah basically started for

me about eight years ago uh driving home

from from work and a in a job that I hated and just really wasn't happy about

who I was and where I was at in life uh

um turned you on you just happened to be

actually turn on the radio you just happened to be on the radio and uh never

listened to the radio back then and heard your voice heard your name before but had never truly listened to you um

and some context my grandparents my dad

there been huge influences on my life they basically practice your principles um from day one you know pay cash for

things live unless you may God's and Grandma's ways of handling money mhm and

when I heard you like that instantly clicked for me um so I was super just

intrigued at that moment but I also just

loved how raw you were with with the collars you know I don't want to see you in a restaurant without you know unless you're working there uh you need to sell your truck you know so like I was pumped

up just listening to you and uh you know

you really started talking about changing your family tree and talking about things that that really hit me hard um changing about who changing who you are changing um uh you know really

just owning up to yourself and taking

control of your life and that hit me hard cuz uh yeah just when I heard that I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like if I'm ever going to have the things that I love and really want my life then I need

to I need to I need to do something about it I didn't have a money problem I just had I had a me problem oh so thank

you that's amazing and that's it I'm

like that's that's the key for so many people it's that Awakening of like oh my gosh I can do this like I can wake up tomorrow and make different decisions it's so empowering so you guys had

babies during this time how old are the kids um Isaac is two and Ruby is 7

months okay okay so you all have little ones little ones so what was the hardest part of this I mean this is a lot of money you guys that you paid off a lot of I'm sure extra work and everything but yeah what was what was difficult I think just staying the track you know it could have been really easy to to divert the plan or uh you know just make other

decisions we've had hail damaged cars are pretty much whole legs you know we

just don't care but uh it could have

been really easy to to move to divert

but we we had a better purpose and we knew we were bringing kids into the to world at some point was it worth it oh

was so worth who made fun of you um we got called

crazy a lot um but nothing like

downpouring that was just more poking

fun and um just it encouraged us just in

a different way yeah did you have some cheerleaders people that were supporting

yeah definitely yeah good good and another thing that was kind of hard for us I guess is I had had a town home uh

like 2015 and it was super cheap and it

was not in the best part of the springs and uh there was a lot of crime activity

driveby was across the street you know somebody had gotten killed shot and killed so people were like you need to get out of there we're like no you know we got to we got this we're doing this for a reason you know this is for a purpose uh so that was yeah yeah the

location and then you got the house though so you moved out of the house we just knew that we wanted to wait until after we were married and um do things

in the right way and yeah we stayed

there longer than we should have but we did we're still here we weren't shot so

so there we go

oh you guys that's incredible I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say that so pleasantly we're still here and we didn't get shot way to go kirston I love it good

for you guys way to go you guys I'm so

proud of you I would imagine your mom and dad are jumping up and down proud aren't they Ruben oh man well my mom passed away in 2008 so you know part of

that was she did have a 30,000 in life

insurance that we I was a we were able

to put down on the house that we're in now so to to honor that or honor her

that way has been awesome and you know

yeah it's incredible so great you guys

so great so what would you say to people

the key of getting out of debt is um for

us we put when we initially got the

mortgage we put the extra P principal

when we did the paperwork so there was

that gap for us like the extra payment

was automatically coming out so we just got used to that being our mortgage payment even though it was more than double and it put that Gap so you

couldn't make any real impulse decisions

and that would take you off of your

yeah yeah that's great that's a smart way of doing it for sure automate your

discipline yep I like that just keep it

going a good plan I used to do that to

myself all the time until I had natural

discipline I put stuff on auto everything so it just automatically happened and I went oh now I have to live on what's left cuz I put all that money in a mutual fund you know it's like wow that's very cool good for y'all

well done very well done

congratulations all right it's uh you want to bring Isaac and Ruby up for the debt free scream Isaac Isaac come on so

sweet oh my gosh she's so cute seven

months seven months we're going to she's going to get scared to death when her mom and dad y I know the babies yeah

they always get a little frightened with the screams so great I love it all right

Ruben and Kirsten Isaac and Ruby's uh

Heroes they've changed their family tree

early 30s with a paid for House in

Colorado Springs meanwhile America sits

around in some places whining that it can't be done these two prove that it is

done every day this is what you call

Millennials this is what you call Millennials that win and we see them all

the time or gen Z Ruben and Kirsten paid

for house Colorado Springs 270 paid off

in 5 years making 72 to 172 count it

down let's hear a debt-free Scream 3 2 1

we yeah [Applause]

y as predicted scared poor Ruby to

death I think Isaac got a little got a

little scared too jumped there's a lot

going on there that's so great amazing

oh amazing yeah so for every time I hear

that you and I on the Ramsey Show and

Jade and George and we're out of touch

and we don't know what the real world is

today and you're speaking Boomer

language and all that kind of stuff all these negative things that are out there

then we meet people like them yep kson

and Reuben and they do I know not just

purchased a home but they paid it off in

five years in their 31 years and I think

it was making 112 not 172 72 to 112 I

wrote that down it looked like a seven no no but I'm saying you know so it's

it's not like they're making 300K right right exactly I mean it's it's amazing and it is it's discipline and it's choosing and now it's the the whole idea

that now oh my gosh there's no payments

there's no payments but they did it well Ruben said y'all could Replay that

monologue for over and over on Loop

because it's true I'm like you take respons yeah you take responsibility and it's amazing yeah he said the guy in my mirror had to change and he did I'm so

proud of him what a hero and he's got he

changed his kid's lives yes and Kiren

just killing it I'm amazing aming well done well done this is the Ramsey Show

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apply Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is

my co-host Steven is is with us in

Chattanooga hi Stephen welcome to the Ramsey Show hello hi here we go so I'm about to be

divorced uh the income disparity between

my wife and I is pretty great so I have

um a large amount coming my way in a

Quadro and alony coming my way three

years of bonus money of her coming my

way we're going to be selling a home

here soon and I'll get about 100K out of

that I want to get myself into a house and have it paid for in the next few years I

don't have any um retirement or anything

set up yet I'm 46 my income is growing

rapidly I'm a brand new Barber I'll be a

make about 30,000 this year but I

believe every year probably go up about

10K okay where am I where am I going

with this what do I do with this Quadra I'm gonna have Quadra quadra's got to be

put into an IRA You' got to leave it alone if you cash that out you're going to get penalized in tax you got to leave it alone yeah so just pretend it doesn't

exist exactly you need to get with a smartvestor pro at Ramsey solutions.com

and find somebody to sit down with and they can help you do the rollover and you can move that into your own personal IRA and some mutual funds and have no taxes on it but if you pull it out and screw with it you're going to have taxes on it so leave it alone because it's in

her you're Tak all it is is a section of her 401K being sliced off for you

yeah that's all it is I had thought about using that for a down payment home

no no you're getting a hundred out of the home and you're getting what other money you said you're getting a couple of bonuses and other stuff how much money total yes not not counting the

qu uh four years of alimony 875 a month

and three years 25% of her bonus it'll

be about 8 to 10 grand each year oh it's

not all going to lump sum no the only lump Su the only lump

sum that we can touch then 8,000 you're

going to get 8,700 a

month is that what you said I'll be

getting I'll be getting about 1600 a month in alimon and child support oh okay okay okay I gotta okay yeah okay it's broken up over

four years and my income will be increasing over that time as well yeah

so I I'm going to be looking at putting a 100,000 down on a house that's what you've got yeah and just ignore that Quadro

yeah you you've got to um because it be

be like taking the money out at 30%

interest yeah cuz all just gets taxed

you're going to get taxed and a 10% penalty you're going to get hammered so

you leave that puppy alone and just go do you a house of some kind with 100 Down based on the current income that

you've got and you can count

um uh palamon you can count sh I mean

you can count all of that in terms of as

long as it's going to continue and and

that'll offset the fact that your income hasn't gone up or you can wait a year and let your income come up MH um and

then you've got a story to tell to a mortgage company showing tax returns as a new Barber that made this and then I made this and then I made this and here's a trend line and so it's reasonable to qualify you based on those

things you got to have two years tax returns uh as a new self-employed person

uh and then you'll be able to move forward on that but yeah just just take your time there's no reason uh you you

know you you are uh getting some money

out of the divorce but it is you it's

not exactly like you hit the lotto I mean it's it's a it's a nice amount of money but it's not it's going to not going to put you on Easy Street you're still going to be doing a bunch of

careful things there today's question of

the day comes from Taylor in

Mississippi Taylor says I'm currently 12

weeks pregnant with a baby girl from my

boyfriend I recently lost a loved one

who left me a large inheritance I have

$40,000 of debt and my boyfriend is debt

free do I take this inheritance and put towards my debt and then take what's left and put down 20% on a house my

boyfriend and I plan on getting married but for some reason he's really against getting married before I have the

baby that's weird okay

well I don't know why that would be the case but um yeah that mean that's what I

would do yeah I would take the inheritance I'd pay off your debt Taylor

I would keep everything so separate if you bought a house I would buy it on

what you make your income your life I

mean I I would be very very uh hesitant

to put him on anything I wouldn't put him on anything not hant just don't do

it and I probably wouldn't do anything until the baby comes I mean honestly I

don't think I would make a big decision like well pay off your pay off your debt pay off your debt but I wouldn't buy a house pregnant I would continue to rent

uh maybe rent for the next year or two then then hopefully you guys get married then after you have the baby and then

you guys together after you're married

look and see okay let's let's purchase a house but while you're pregnant I

probably I wouldn't take some of this inheritance and put it down payment I would just I would rent be where you are

for you know one to two years and then

from there see what happens relationally

if that changes um and then even just

financially at that point

yeah I'm old why is he there's a term

from my generation okay careful called

shotgun wedding oh yeah which um you got

a baby on the way buty you show up or Daddy's going to bring a

shotgun and help you show up oh my gosh that that's what that means that's where that comes from that's where that comes from I'm going to bring my shotgun and by God you're going to marry I just thought you meant a fast f okay no

that's that this is like disturbing but

I agree well I agree that it's weird that he's like really really against

getting married bass Awards I it's it's

just it's not weird it's just wrong and

and it just my warning bells are going

off like crazy mine is too but I don't want to force her into a marriage with a terrible guy so I'm

like right no I wouldn't no I would not

say just go get married right now he's

not a great guy Reas for some reason he doesn't yeah I'm okay so yeah don't put this guy's

name on anything until he is a husband and uh

period yeah under any circumstances and

don't put anybody you're not married to

period no matter how sweet and wonderful

they are their name on your freaking

house you get yourself in a

disaster this just H all right John's in

Colorado Springs hey John how are you

how are you good how are you thank you for taking my call sure so I've got a

bet with my wife on what we should do

with our side hustle money

so um we owe

102,000 left on our house we have no

other debt we have our rainy day fund

our money and savings we give 15% to our

401k and our

pension um we our interest rate on our

house is 2.2% I make between 30 and

60,000 on our side

hustle so I say that we take the 30 to

60 every year and put it in mutual funds

because the rate of return is greater than the 2.2% on the house my wife your

wife has been listening to the show and she set you up yeah she said that we

need to just pay off the house she set you up yeah I hope you didn't bet much

no John what we teach and have the

entire time we've been on the air for 30 years is that you pay off your house as fast as possible regardless of the interest rate beyond the 15%

because in studying the doing the

largest study of millionaires ever done in North America we talked to 10,000 167

of them let me tell you how many of

those 10,000 said we became a millionaire because we didn't pay off

our house and instead made more money by

investing the money in mutual funds out

of 10,167 what number said we are going to

go with John's plan zero zero not one

we've never met a millionaire who really did this we've met a lot of people who have a theory and discuss it the way

you're discussing it because you're a math guy like me and I I immediately go

to where you're going to um because

that's how I my math brain works you're looking at the spread but what your

spread doesn't take into

consideration is risk and the two elements of a paid for

the two elements of someone getting a fir their first one to five million is

typically their 401K being well funded

which is 15% of your income going in you're doing that and a paid for house

and so you're on track if if you follow

her plan to be a millionaire faster than

if we follow your plan based on the data

that we've studied of actual millionaires not with mathematical

Theory um because the math theory of

what you're bringing up is reasonable

but uh the actual facts are when you pay

off your house other stuff changes in

your life and you tend to excel in your

career and do other things you can invest the mortgage payment yeah exactly

you don't have one yeah you can invest the mortgage payment like crazy you go

overdrive this is the ramsy show

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today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth

do work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Rachel crew is

Ramy personality number one bestselling author my daughter is my co-host today

thanks for hanging out with us open phones at 8825 5225 Claire is with us in South Bend

Indiana hi Claire how are you hi Dave

I'm doing great how about yourself better than I deserve what's up well

first I just want to tell you really quick met my husband one of the first

dates we had he told me that his dad

raised him with a Bible in one hand and a Dave Ramsey book in the other that's how I kind of was introduced to you so I thought that'd be funny to kind of share that's that's a

little scary

actually it's let us on some good tasks

here so good how can we help today I'm

calling I wanted to ask you um as you

both know daycare costs are really high

um we are expecting our second ch in

August which we're really excited about

um we both work my husband and I full-time and so daycare is our as our

option in life right now um when it

comes to trying to figure out in our budget we're on baby step 456 um kind of like how to best budget

for the upcoming expensive daycare um we

are kind of at a loss with we can't

afford it and that's that's not an issue

but it's where does it come out you know

we're trying to figure out with our budget does it maybe impact us putting

right now we're putting 15% each into

retirement for a season until my older

son can go to a less expensive daycare

do we put maybe 10% into retirement each

so we have a little bit more room to

give to the daycare for our second child

when he goes to daycare or you know kind

of trying to figure that out um what's

your household income

we currently make 121 a year okay so 15%

is 20,000 bucks okay yeah and uh daycare

is how much um right now we pay

$311 a week for our son so that's

roughly depending on you know the month it could be between 15 and one two um 1,200

1,500 um but with the second child we

get a small 10% discount and it could be

anywhere between 2,100 a month to 2,700

a month of a daycare we're currently at

yeah so it'll be three grand a month is

what you guys will be paying yep in daycare and how much do you make a year

so I currently make 55 a year okay and

my husband makes um I think when I broke

it down it's 6 oh that's right you said

121 household yep sorry I had that

number okay that's great um yeah do you

guys have have Claire do you guys have margin in your budget when you budget month to month do you have money that you're putting away in savings just for other things is there um what does your

budget look like yeah so typically in a

month we put towards retirement and some

other savings um about

1,300 um and then extra we have left

over for like you know gas we we donate

to our church um groceries household

items you know utensils or things like

that um so we do have you know we budget

as quick close as you can um with

everything but just trying to figure out

when before baby comes and everything else like how much more do we save um if

and then that only last us for so long

and again this is only for a short period of time because our son could go

to a different daycare when he's four um

the oldest and it would be a third of the cost so it's not going to be forever

that we would be in this predicament but just for a short period of time we're just going to be at a a higher daycare cost yeah yeah um yeah I mean I think in

a perfect world you're finding that

margin other places and what that looks

like because that 15% um is I mean that that's a key part

for you guys in the future and so I don't know what what other lifestyle um expenses look like of of of

Shoring those up maybe you know saying

hey we got to find some margin other places um in that budget because you

know I think that's the hard thing too the reality of like oh my gosh kids they do they cost they cost a lot and especially when you're talking about something an expense like daycare it is it's so pricey um so yeah I mean in a

perfect world you're going to you would find that extra 1300 elsewhere but for you guys um you

don't you know at that point though you don't have an option and for me chop for $30,000 a year I'm going to start looking at Alternatives too I'm not going to just accept that as the only possible method yeah and that's something I started to look into as well um one other option we

discussed was um not contributing to the

529 plan for a little while for our son

because my mom's I'm talking about other daycare options yes that too when we

have looked at other dayare option 30,000 bucks yeah but 300 $311 a week I

mean that's pretty standard I mean that's not unreasonable that's not an unreasonable amount when I but it gives

me a lot of thoughts when I start

talking about $330,000 a year y

um I can I can start thinking about a lot of different things then so um but

yeah you know I would look at all that

and I'm with Rachel it probably one of

the last places I would go would be to the retirement I would do 529 before retirement yeah I would I agree I agree

so much I'd pull that off and then I I'm

I really would honestly look at

alternatives on the daycare because it's

such an honorous amount as a percentage of your

budget that they have priced themselves

out of somebody who makes $120,000 a

year and that's yeah they pric

themselves out of it and so um you're

not far from affording a

nanny for 30k I mean not far at all so

um I mean it can be done so I I the

these I start thinking about it different it's kind of like you know if you're going to charge me $120,000 a year for a nursing home uh for $120,000

a year I can hire a full-time in-house

Butler yeah you can't do buy a reclining

bed yes I know I know but I know her

feeling and I've and I've done the research even locally like the moms that work here at Ramsay I'm like it is it's it is a it is a crazy expense and then

you start and then you do you ask as for so many women you ask the question is it even worth it right it's the 20,000

extra is so instead of making 121 we

make a 100 is that worth right I mean

like you you have to play out all these different scenarios but it does this part though it makes me as a mom with little ones it is it it it it sucks

because they have trapped us in a sense

it can feel like that with the prices

they go up as people going when you so they're open

they stay open they're paying it when when price raises to a certain point the

volume comes down that's Supply demand

and so you're you're they're reaching the top of this because this has been a discussion like 10 times in the last year well yeah yeah and and it's like 37% it's risen it's risen since 2020 I'm

like it's just it's it's crazy it is

crazy so they do they will end up and

that's what we talked to so many women that just end up saying hey I'll just

I'll stay home right like if you have three kids right I mean you start to actually see I'm working 40 hours and after taxes and daycare I net five grand

screw that right you know no thank you

that doesn't make sense Y and uh she's

almost there she's almost there not

quite with her numbers but um well and

the four-year-old will go to a less expensive school right so there you got you got to light at the end of the tunnel with that exctly I know but

that's so hard Claire so hard I hope

that's helpful yeah thanks for calling

this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Applause] [Music]

regel Cruz Ramsey personality is my my

co-host today the best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a monthly plan people that

win plan to win and that includes money

and it's called a budget your budget

should give every dollar an assignment

every dollar a mission every dollar a name before the month begins and you and your spouse agree on it if you're married every dollar is our budgeting

app the world's best budgeting app one

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people joining in the last just a little

it's crazy y'all thank you so much by

the way it's an easy to ous app that fits into your busy lifestyle you and your spouse can both have access to it see what's going on you can keep a pulse on your spending make progress on your money goals download every dollar for

free in the app store or Google play

today and you can even get it at every doll online at every doll.com just for

your desktop if you want uh Briana is

with us in Columbus Ohio hi Briana how

are you I'm doing well how are you guys

better than we deserve what's up so

quick question so I'm going to keep this

try to keep this short and sweet so my

in-laws are on one income and my

mother-in-law has not worked in about 18

years um around that time and she's just

been making sure that everything's taken

care of at the house and so my

father-in-law doesn't bring in all that

much uh you know they they pretty much

they're okay but they don't have any

term life insurance no I don't believe they have

anything for savings um my

father-in-law I'm concerned about him

with his work um because he does have a risk

of uh more he's more at risk for injury

because his health and so my question

for you guys is you know with us

children and daughter-in-laws and such

is there something that we need to be doing in case something happens to our

my father and La just hand handling your

money I mean if you become wealthy the

wealthier you become the more able you are to help right yeah and that's why

I'm asking because I am I'm in my mid

20s and I'm trying to get a good handle

on my money you know I'm starting the

baby steps uh that's the best thing you

can do for them okay is to get you

strong the weak can't help the strong

can't help the weak yeah and that's so

what how do you how would you recommend I best do this do I do a no just baby

steps just go you go become

wealthy if you've got money you'll have

some money you don't have to have a parent

account if you got a million dollars in

a mutual fund and they have a problem

you can help them right yes it doesn't

have to be it doesn't have to have their name on it should I do a high yield

savings or no you ought to follow the baby steps okay

exactly that's the fastest method to you

becoming wealthy and the best thing you

can do for them is for you to become

wealthy okay but no you should not

truncate your retirement savings and say

are your kids college and say I'm not doing baby steps four and five instead

I'm going to have a a father-in-law account no thank you no no no no no

no yeah and Briana have you guys talked

to them about their money like do you

know all this for a fact is your husband

like like you guys know

this so we you know that they do not

have really anything saved have they T

have they said anything about what their plans are is he just planning on working

longer he's kind of just planning to

work until he can't

okay yeah and so I mean and too I would

say this to Brianna I wouldn't be like overly stressed about it because at this point you can't do anything to help they can't help themselves right and nothing has happened yet right it's it's not like oh my gosh my father-in-law is now

on workers comp because he got an injury and my my mother-in-law now has to go back to work how do I help navigate the situ like there is no situation right now there could be so I think you know

being wise about the people around you the family unit around you of saying

this is our life and this could be

coming in the future um but right now

today yeah I'm with Dave you just yeah

you guys you and your husband you guys start doing this you start walking down the baby steps and if you have the

ability to help if they need help then

you guys get to choose that at that point will is in West Palm Beach Florida

hi Will hey how are youall doing better

than we deserve what's up so quick question for you I'll keep

it brief uh long story short I graduated

college last May and I moved back home

in let's see July last July so I've been

home got a job in November so I've been

working um I make roughly 75 ,000 a year

bring home 4,400 um I got my masses I let my mom

handle all the finances for that uh so

in February there was a little bit of a surprise to me that I was $70,000 in

debt $7,000 student loans so I've been

paying off those trying to throw about

$3,000 a month towards this so I paid

off uh roughly

$6,400 um I've got $35,000 saved up and

I'm wondering that's a high yield savings account so I'm wondering would it be wise to put that towards it right

now yes or just continue and in the same

in the same day that you do that which is today you take control of your own

money you have a master's degree you're

a grown man yep you need to manage your money

not your mother and then right after

that we need to start talking about where a $75,000 a year college

graduate's going to live that's not his mother's house

right so three things yeah move out take

control of your life and write a check and pay down the student loans ding ding

ding ding ding ding ding and all of a

sudden this stuff's going to start lining up for you like crazy what's your

Master's in man uh Finance Investments

okay good all right so so you can handle

this then right oh of course okay good I

would be more was yeah yeah yeah pay it

pay it towards pay it towards the debt yeah let's get the debt cleaned up as fast as you can for 35,000 I mean you

obviously took advantage of not having

the rent to pay right living with living

at your parents you took advantage of it because you have saved which is awesome pay them oh you do okay well I was gonna

say you have 35,000 saved so you're doing something right yeah you need to

take over control of your own money immediately you need to make plans to move out in the next 30 to 60 days and

have yourself a life and um you need to

pay down on student loan as fast and furiously as you can because your number

number one wealth building tool is not

interest rates your number one wealth

building tool is your income and when

it's not going to someone else in the form of debt payments Building Wealth

becomes fairly easy especially well for

a guy like you who knows numbers and has

done a great job of saving money you did

an amazing job to Rachel's Point well

and will I mean at this season of Life

yeah I would do exactly what he said I'd go get a part-time job I would go drive Uber I would do something four days four

nights a week and just make a crap ton

of money right now and pay this off get

this knocked out as fast as you possibly

can and just say for 12 months I'm going

to just work and get this get this out

of here because um because it can be

done and you're in the perfect season to do it right I'm like you really are you're um I find you know there I mean I

think it does get harder when there's

another spouse involved right because you got you got another person to consider then you have kids and like as

you kick the can down the road

there there's more elements to your life

that you're having the bad news is when you're single there's no one to hold you accountable the good news is is you don't have to mess with anybody else to make a decision to change your life that's right you can just decide to do it today yep today it's great well and

let me say this I mean I feel I I feel

for you will because he had no clue he had the 70,000 he said his mom took care of all the money stuff during college

and then he realized oh my gosh now I have 70 grand is that what he said it kind of surprised him so parents talk to

your kids say it out loud have the discussion

because that that sucks that happened to

one of my friends they went to pull a loan for a mortgage and on her credit

report there was a student loan that they didn't know about no one no one

said anything about it so communicate parents communicate this

is the ramsy show

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a [Music]

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[Applause]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host Jade is in Ottawa Ontario hi

Jade how are you I'm good how are you

better than I deserve what's

up yeah so I had um a couple of

questions so this year uh kind of fell

on a little bit of Hard Times uh when it

comes to finances so um I have roughly

$237,000 in debt um

$25 of that is in a

mortgage and the rest is car loans uh

line of credit and credit

card um so I'm a single parent and I am

only bringing in roughly

$3500 a month um so the debt is starting

to become overwhelming I'm wondering if

when did you buy the house um I bought the house in 2018 so

the house is worth about

$630,000 now MH

because you don't make a ton of money the house doesn't sound completely unreasonable but my guess is what's your mortgage payment a month so um when I

first got in the house I had a a really

low rate um but now that I've had to

renew um my mortgage payment has went

from $1,000 a month to

$1400 a month

okay um yeah I mean you're bumping up

close to 50% of your income being your

mortgage yeah and then um I had um why

did you not take a fixed why did you not take a fixed rate mortgage um so I did take a fixed rate I

had um um I had a fixed rate before and

then when I renewed I took a fixed rate

as well why why would you renew if you

had a fixed rate so here in Canada you have to renew

it's not like in the US so so the rate

the rate adjust par the rate adjusts each time

you renew yes so there's only variable rate

interest rate mortgages in Canada I did not know that no there's F there's fixed

it's not fixed if it if it goes up every

year no you gotta when you renew how often do you have to renew so you can

either choose a three-year fix or a

fiveyear fix and fiveyear is the maximum

that you can hold a rate for in Canada

wow I just learned something yeah

unfortunately well that sucks I did know

that yeah I knew something around those lines um okay Jay do you see your income

going up anytime

soon um so the thing is I have a

business and because of um all the money

that I've been spending I haven't been able to um put much into marketing for

my business so it's kind of been at a

stand still is that your income is your

business or is that a side hustle it's

my

business okay all right so here's the

Here's the the the straight on solution

okay you either sell the house or you

get your income

up because you cannot keep this house

with this income it's not sustainable that's why that's where the stress is coming from yeah you that in a car payment

credit card set I mean it's a lot yeah well the car payment the credit card came because you couldn't afford the house and then when you can't afford the house you don't have any margin left to save so you rent stuff up on credit cards right exactly yeah yeah the house

the house squeeze is showing up in the credit cards what do you do what's your business Jade um so I have a commercial cleaning

company okay so we clean offices okay

because you're making Pro I mean it's around I mean 3500 a month right I mean

you're you're bringing in 45 a year I'm

just wondering if you can find something that you're making 60 gr right I'm like just any up are are you fully

booked um we're not fully booked okay I

don't know why you have to spend money all you got to do is go knock on doors and get you some

clients yeah yeah so I'm I'm trying I've

been trying to do that I've been a little bit busy with work and my son but

um that's definitely something that I'm GNA Ser if if you don't do that you're G

to have to sell your

house I was think thinking would renting

it out be a good idea no you don't need

to be a landlord you're

broke that's a bad idea yes it's a

really bad idea yes either get your

income up or sell it uh because you know

you and I think you ought to go get your income up that's what I think you ought to do I think you're going to have to focus on this is a good I mean like you know 1,400 bucks a month is not terrible

right and now compared to income it is but man if you can get that income up

then that I mean you're in a good spot you have so much Equity I mean if you can get 4,000 a month it's from 3500 it

changes the whole equation automatically

and then you can start working your way out of the credit card debt do away with those and start living on a budget and

being in control but no there's turning

yourself into a landlord when you're broke Makes You Broker uh landlords you need money to be

a landlord you you need cash you need

margin it doesn't make you money it it's

it's a problem at first especially when

you're this Tight cuz this house is not

going to rent for much more than than

your payment so you're not no no no no

no no no no don't go that way please

stay away from that dimma is with us in

Baltimore Hi dimma how are

[Music] you one more time let's try

it said okay oh no we're gonna put you

on hold until we can get your phone straightened out Riley's in Salt Lake

City hi Riley how are you good how are

you doing better than I deserve what's

up awesome thanks for having me um I've

just got a question in regards to baby

step two um working baby step two we've

got two car

loans and they're both underwater so I'm

looking we're looking to go down to one car for a family to try and speed this

process up um but I just don't really

know what to do in this situation where

we're we're underw what are your what are your numbers Riley what what what do

you owe on the cars and how much are they worth um so the we have a truck

which is a dumb decision but it's it's

got 36,000 left on the loan it's worth

31 okay and then we have a car um the

loan's 8,000 but it's probably about it's

probably worth about 3500 okay and what do you what's your

household income uh 990,000 okay all right and um

do you have any

money uh not too much really I mean we

just have the ,000 saved up from baby

step one and good who said the truck's worth 31 uh I just lik did Kelly Blue Book

private sale or tradein private sale

okay all right so you need 5K who do you

owe the 36 to on the truck who's the

lean holder uh it's just a Local Credit Union

Perfect go down there sit down talk to them tell them you want to sell the truck and sign a note for the difference okay they'll cut they'll let

you do that cuz they already don't have

fully collateralized loan meaning the

truck is not worth what you owe so

they're already have 5,000

unsecured right and if you just now have

a 5,000 unsecured and you drive the old

car until you get your mess cleaned up here uh which making 90 you'll be able

to turn the corner pretty quick on this but you've identified where the source pot is and it's this truck it's killing

you right right the debt do you guys

have Riley uh that'll be that'll be the last

of the debt we oh so eight grand on the

car and you'll be done yeah that's amazing that's great I

mean that feels good right getting 31

off off knock that out and save up like

crazy and either move up in the one car

family or move into a two-car family

again and then move up one HS got you

either one I don't care which you do but

yeah I think you're probably moving back into the car business after you get the

other one paid off and this gone and um

you know

uh yeah 4,000 sounds a lot better than

36,000 yeah yeah and that's great and

then save up and you get a used truck

later yeah that's what I would do if I

was in your shoes dump the truck and sign a note for the difference at the credit union and that like you said that

just pushes it on out

there open phones atle 8825 522 2 5

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our scripture the today John 15:16 you

did not choose me but I chose you and

appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit fruit that will last and so

what that whatever you ask in my name the father will give you Bill Murray said whatever you do always give 100%

unless you're donating blood my

gosh that's funny I have not heard

that's good Ross is in Dallas Texas hi

Ross welcome to the ramsy show

hey Dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up uh so I have just over $42,000 in

student loan debt at a 5.625 interest

rate and I'm wondering if I should take

some of the contributions out of my Roth IRA I currently have about a60 ,000

balance and put them towards the the

student loan debt

no no simple enough I never I never take

U money out of retirement to pay off debt unless just to avoid bankruptcy your foreclosure um because that money is going to grow tax-free that you've got in there to such a large amount that it would just be disturbing to me that you

lost a million dollar taxfree account for doing this and that's what it would be at your age how old are you I'm 32

yeah that's what I thought and so yeah so what's your household income uh 100,000 I I will be getting

married next year and that'll make it about 180 oh cool and you and you only

have $40,000 in debt yes sir oh so

you'll be debt free in a year yeah good

no I would not sacrifice my Roth IRA on

the alar of a

year okay yeah I just was looking at the

repayment calculator and I you know just

trying to consider as an options because the the monthly payments are I feel like you know really hold me back no no no no no you misunderstand $40,000 in less

than a year I don't give a crap what your calculator said I want you to pay off your stinking loan now you make 100

you're getting ready to make 180 I want that gone out of your income lowered your

lifestyle if you make $180,000 a year

you can't find 40K in 12 months you know

now that's after you're married I understand when's the marriage uh should be next July okay

good so I mean between now and then I'd

love for you uh a year from

July a year from this July yes sir okay

all right so you have a year at 100K to work on it if you don't get it knocked

out during that time shortly after marriage I want you to knock it out but I'd love for you to knock it out out out of your hundred or do you have the ability to work extra and do I mean anything else you can sell other than trashing your wroth but yeah that kind of stuff you let's just get in attack mode and say

I'm going to live on 60,000 which is

just below average household income in America as a single guy for one year and

knock this out yeah I mean after tax you

get a 100 after tax is 80 right so you

live on 40 put 40 that's two years and

like but then you're going to be married so I mean it's it's a process for sure

but also I would say R El to go work

extra up your income yeah you're making a hundred which is awesome um but it's

just that again it's that singular focus

of saying what can I do to pay this off

earlier and run those numbers th those are numbers you could be running if I made an extra two grand a month doing

this or you know whatever it looks like

um there yeah there's power in that yeah

and it's kind of a thing what if you

made it into a game and said okay as a matter of personal Pride I'm going to walk into this marriage debt

free now game

on just kind of make it a game you know

and so okay now what have I got to do yeah lots of work selling stuff not

going out to eat da D and it turns into a game then um it it's not life or death

but if you treated it like it was you could make it and that's kind of my point and then

for sure for sure when you're making 180

if there's any left if you guys don't knock that out real fast that's pretty lame so now you don't

need a payment calculator to figure that out 180 minus 40 or 100 plus overtime

and extra jobs minus 40 that that that's

your calculator that's what you're dealing with and then uh minus lifestyle

oh wait I don't have a life because I work all the time because I'm getting out of debt oh that's okay too I like that one that's a plan that you know I

would just make it a matter of Pride I think it' be kind of cool and pausing to

Ross your you're investing no more

contributions to that Roth so wait so that could free up a couple thousand bucks too right a year depending on what you're putting in your WTH so that's that's good too stop all investing temporarily while you attack your debt

that's maybe step two okay uh for those

of you that are new to this ramsy game

Dan is in Atlanta hi Dan how are you hey

Dave doing well how are you better than

I deserve what's up in your world sir

hey I figured you'd say that um so

wanted to get your thoughts on something

I am buying a house which is really

exciting now I'm wanting to maximize my down payment and really when I started the

year I wasn't gonna be buying a house so

I bought a new truck uh that I paid cash

for and so my question to you is should

I liquidate the truck take that down or

take that cash and put that to the down

payment of the house just to enhance

going Beyond that 20% or would you say

hey just go in at what you're doing

currently what what is the truck

worth 39,000 and what's your household

income uh over a 100 okay and are you

single no married okay and what's her

car worth uh we actually lease her car for

200 a month no nothing

down okay

um

well no I I would not worry about

putting extra down on the house until we got her car paid off okay her car needs to be paid off

you still have debt on it a car lease is

not renting a house a car lease is an

alternative form of financing so that is

a debt you're in debt on her car and you

need to clean that up before we talk about anything else so if you sell your truck or if you don't sell your truck her car debt needs to be going away very quickly and if you

need to sell your truck to do that then that's something we can talk about um

but that's you know you should be doing that before you start talking about buying a house and certainly before you start talking about putting extra down on a house we should be clearing her her

debt on that or the debt on her car and

um so that's the route to go there yeah

and we always say anything with wheels and Motors not to be more than 50% of

your take-home pay and of your of your

income of your household income of your household income and you're at 40 Grand so you're I mean you're getting up there I mean it was a nice truck for what you make right if you include her car if her

if her car's value is over 10 grand then

yeah your truck needs to go on that basis right yeah you probably have too

much truck and I think you kind of knew that and that's why you made the call so yeah let's sell the truck get you a decent truck out of the um out of the

proceeds and pay off her car and

whatever's left though that is extra down payment that's what I would do mhm

yeah but you that's a good point Rachel I didn't didn't keep up with that part

of the math on this but yeah you can really get into a pinch there but that's

great though saving 20% Dan I mean for a

down payment that's that's a that's a

conversation that again people have been having a lot recently with the housing market so we always applaud and congratulate there's other stuff for you to do before you do that but um but you

guys have been saving really well so that's great yeah you're way ahead of the game on that um Rachel's right so

congrats on that I'm glad you're getting and and you're right you know the way your brain's working is say okay what's

more important houses or cars well

financially houses by far your personal

residence is going to go up in value your stupid $40,000 truck's going to be worth 10,000 in about 20 minutes they go

down in value Like a Rock that's where

Chevy got that like a rock and so oh

wait I drive a Ford no well that's found

on the road to appreciated f o r d so

there you go it's all goes down in value boys and girls it all goes down in value so yeah that's I yeah where you're you

know so your brain's telling you I'm going to put money in something that's appreciating instead of depreciating it's like um I drove up in

my 20s I had bought a Jaguar I thought I was a just such a fun I know that you I

thought it was a ba but like I never

hear of Jaguar it's not like a Mercedes

or a BMW that I feel like is a that's why I bought it cuz I come from a neighborhood where we couldn't spell jaguar so so but I drove up and my grandpa's

like what's that and I'm like well it's

a jaguar and he goes what that cost and it was like the 80s and it was 30 grand

you know and holy crap yeah it was

expensive and he goes that was dumb I'm

like why is that dumb it's a nice car and he said it's going to go down in value and I said what's an investment said my investments go up in value son

there's a grandpa lesson right there

that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial piece and that's to walk daily

with the prince of peace Christ Jesus

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## 187. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 15, 2021)


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| **Video ID** | `r1efdVyzBGA` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1efdVyzBGA) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:29:16 |

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this is ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice dr john deloney ramsay personality best-selling author and host of an explodingly popular podcast i got to come up with a better phrase than that but

but it is healthy explodingly is explodingly popular it's uh it's it's yeah there's a lot well anyway but dave you've been there for 30 years there's a lot of people listening to it in a very short period of time and i i'm proud of it and i

uh i'm proud of you and i love that it's popular because what you're putting out there the material the answers to questions in people's lives is absolutely valuable and it is uh it's unique and it's fresh and refreshing and so i'm glad that i'm glad the curve on the listenership is through the roof i appreciate that plus i just like being associated with a big hit well

and i think 30 years you've been making up words so why start now stop now right we're going to go with exploding this isn't the season to fix your grammar dave so i say explodingly let's do it man i'm in it's uh it's a little late in life because um number one i'm beyond help number two i just really don't care that's that's the the traffic the dufecta that one does

it right there so open phones if you want to talk to this couple of clowns open triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll talk about your life and your money uh the call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it laura is with us in los angeles hey laura welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you for taking my call sure what's up um i'm a little nervous i'm going to try to calm down you'll be fine we've never lost a patient you'll make

it okay my husband and i are at um total odds kind of right now what to do about a decision and so um we're calling you

so we're new listeners we've only been listening for a couple months but we've listened a lot and so basically we're 50 and 60 years old all of our money is in uh real estate

we've done well in real estate we have about six thousand six million dollars in a paid off real estate it's all rentals i hate it when that happens

and we probably made some stupid decisions but we were lucky and it worked out i think you've made some good decisions somewhere okay so anyway where we're at right now is everything is owned outright except for our personal residence and a vacation home in palm springs that's very successful airbnb um our personal residence is worth like 1.6 million and we owe 350 000 on it and on a rental home is worth about a million and we also owe 350 000 on it my husband

wants us to sell a paid off rental that's about

worth about 350 000. they'll be on free and clear it brings in about two thousand dollars a month and it's really it's a condo it's easy you know it's just the money just comes in he wants to sell that to pay off our palm springs airbnb

just so he just feels like he's 60. now

he just wants to not have that debt you know he wants to just have a home mortgage then he wants to really attack the home mortgage this whole debt free idea is brand new to us you know so um and i want to keep it because we have no retirement other than renters we have no

stocks we have no i have 6 million in real estate we

no whining allowed this condo is not going to break your retirement bank right sorry uh i mean it's okay

why so why did he pick that condo to sell out of all the other properties um he wants to sell something and i think he well also the our tenant just moved out so vacant which california rent laws would make it easier you know to sell a vacant unit and so it's just sitting there and rented you know it's just and we're at a stalemate like kind of locking

the heads and i said well why don't we take rent it take the 2000 and since we don't need that to live on it just attack the palm springs mortgage you know and then we could just and if they're already on 15-year fix that we're already only 13 years old what is your household income it's all off of rental properties is your income all off of rental basically yeah

so what did you take in in cash that you put in your pocket that you paid taxes on last year 200 000 on six million

well yeah well it was like 340 is what it brings in but then we have we write off a lot yeah i'm talking about not i'm not talking about uh depreciation but i mean you have actual expenses that eat your cash i would hope you're making 340 after

expenses on six million dollar portfolio

uh well maybe it's just because real estate's so expensive like our home is in that you know what i mean

you should have 340 000 income

net of expenses before depreciation

on six million dollar portfolio anyway that's still low but you ought to at least have that yeah

so what is the cash after expenses before depreciation that you guys have coming in to work with um i'm not sure okay

well that'd be a good number to have okay because that's called your income right that's what you have to work with because if i wanted to answer the question how fast can i pay off 700 000 worth of real estate debt i would need to know what my income is to do that with i will tell you 24 000

on a property that's worth 350 000 as your gross income meaning you're netting somewhere around 17 000 really sucks the roi on that condo

is pretty full yeah it's bad

i don't care if it's low if it's not got much hassle you're not you know you're not making a you're making what four percent on your money mm-hmm that sucks so i

thought i was hoping maybe you're gonna tell me he picked it out because the income's horrible on it but um i know it's just that it's empty yeah right now okay yeah well i i'm as you know from listening for just a few weeks i'm going to lead you to be debt-free as fast as i can so the answer to your question is going to be you have to go back

and do some homework and you guys have to keep talking because you need to get to the bottom of this so number one we need these properties to be producing and a cash on cash

rate of return that is substantial

okay number two once that's our income once we know what our income is number two how fast if we keep the condo can we get

these 750 000 worth of debt cleared

how many years is that going to take how many years is that going to take five years six years seven years he's 60 years old he doesn't want to leave you with that mm-hmm and that's that's the goal okay he's trying to take care of you so uh then then uh if you if it's going

to take you 15 years because you're really making 200 000 on this 6 million because your your real estate sucks um if that's really all you're making on it and it's going to take you 10 or 15 years to clear this yeah you need to sell the condo because you need to clear this debt as a part of preparing for him to not be there or if the golden years whatever we want to call these these next this next decade or two if

you're if however you're making three or four hundred thousand dollars that you have cash on at your fingertips which i suspect you should be i mean unless these properties are just not well run uh you should be well yeah okay i feel like because everything's so expensive it's not anything to do with it right okay if a property is worth

a million dollars it should rent for a price the rental price should reflect the value of the property right if you've raised the prices as the values have gone up because rents go up as values go up and

so anyway i own several hundred thousand dollars several hundred million dollars of real estate i love real estate so it's my you're my sandbox right now kiddo so you either need to clear the debt with your income or you need to clear the debt by selling the condo in the next five years now you run the numbers out and decide which one's the best hey folks i got a

great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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well speaking of real estate if you've ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end you know you didn't do your research me too most people make choices based on

feelings or opinions especially when buying a house but when it comes to the real estate market feelings aren't your friend facts are well john says that about a lot of things so check your facts find out what you can actually afford research what's trending in home prices talk to a reputable real estate agent in your area

never buy a house again without fax

text the word house to 33

789 to get an agent who will help you make smart decisions text house three

seven eight nine sarah is

with us in dallas texas hi sarah welcome to the ramsey show hello thank you so much for having me sure how can i all right well um my husband and i are

in baby step two and uh since december of 2019 we've paid off fifty eight thousand dollars all right and we only have about three here we're very proud of that but we are on the second half of our debt now and that's 37 000 left in student loans but due to increased costs of having a second child over last year and taking a job of a decreased salary our shovel is substantially smaller compared to what

it used to be so i'm trying to think of ways brainstorm ways to be gazelle intense given a new situation and i had this crazy idea and my husband was not super thrilled with it and actually asked me if i could call you to talk about it what if we paid off our paid or what if we sold our paid off cars um if we did that

it would be a big step but it would wipe out this 37k immediately and we could then focus on

all of the other things that we need to do and then you have a forty thousand dollars back into a car we have two twenty three

thousand dollar cars oh you'd sell both your cars yes that's

why it's a big step what would you and then you get your two beaters huh yes maybe not beaters and what is your house what is your household income

140 000 a year

and why can you not pay off 37 making 140 000 um so we bring home 8 800 a month which is a lot and we're very fortunate um 5 000 of it goes between daycare and our mortgage they're about the same that's over five thousand dollars uh we spent a thousand on groceries diapers household things your day care is 60 000 a year

uh yeah but well between the two kids uh we pay 2 200 a month so not 50 000 a year

that's that's not five thousand oh five mortgage plans i'm sorry it's between day care and mortgage oh yeah okay 104 140

i don't know why mortgage and daycare are on the same list but anyway we'll put them there so 140 minus 60 isn't that isn't that 80.

140 minus 60 is 80. yeah why can you not

pay off 37 000 again so i can pay off thirty seven

thousand dollars i have a thousand based on our no our debt snowball i have a thousand dollars a month going towards that i don't think your budget is very sacrificial and that's true there are other things that we could we could yeah like you're still doing a whole bunch of crap that you don't need to be doing okay well then we'll take a look at that and make

it a little bit i mean help me with this because i'm not just making this up i mean i just took 140 and i took out the mortgage and i took out the daycare which were your two primary things you're worried about you don't have any payments except except a student loan payment and we took care of daycare and we took care of the mortgage now we got to buy lights water

and food and you can't find 37 thousand dollars

that's just weird um okay well looking

looking at our budget and the growth that we come home with like i said it's 8800 yeah that's 120 000. that's 120 absolutely minus well and that's our growth right that's what we take home after taxes or our net i'm sorry now i know and then we take uh and then it's about a thousand dollars on food diapers other household items that's 12.

um a thousand on student loans

about seven hundred dollars in bills and at the end of the month we may have an extra five hundred dollars left which will go towards um towards our species you did not get down to five hundred dollars your budgets you're still not doing it i'm sorry i'm the only thing i'm good at is math and you still did not spend all that money so you've got some work to do kiddo sharpen z pencil sharpen the pencil

uh so one car maybe but i don't think so you're putting a thousand dollars a month towards 37 that's 12 of the 37 so all you need

is 24 000 all you got to do is find 24 000 out of 140 120 take home pay for one year and to do it in one year then if you want to do it in two years all you need is twelve thousand dollars i'll do it in one year just get it done with it i i really think you can do it i really think that there's some

i i think there's some whining in this budget i really do yeah it does it sounds like i want to be comfortable let me tell you i'll go further i don't think you're doing the whole budget because you're you're doing this from your head that's why you've got daycare and diapers broken out of separate line items they're you know diapers don't go in a separate line item they're not that big a line item you're you're trying to crack crank

this through in your brain you need to sit down and do a written detailed line-by-line budget

with every dollar every dot get on the every dollar app with your husband the two of you give every dollar a name and you're gonna see where why i'm why i'm raising up on you you're going to see there's money left here and you can knock this out no you don't need to sell your cars you need to tighten your budget and lower your stinking lifestyle and

i actually think that when she first called dave i was going to say yes sell your cars and be done with this thing but i think i think the exercise oh it's right it's much better than selling the cars yeah this is going to be a uh i hate to use this working a spiritual exercise for this crew to get down and and see what you're made of yeah yeah

this is going to force you to do the last 10 of truth yes which is the hardest is the detailed budget because you can i mean you could do big piece budgets in your head and when you make 140 grand you just feel like you got so much wiggle room right and you should have and it's frustrating when you get to the end of the month and there's no money money left

but you haven't detailed it out i'm i might be wrong but i'm not i'm not be

wrong but i'm not been doing this too long so that's my opinion you keep digging on it kiddo if we can help you we're here to help you but part of the time we help you by um by raising up because we love you we want you to win all right up next is going to be armin armin's in los angeles hey armin how are you good how are

you guys better than i deserve what's up all right so before i get into my question i just want to give some context on my situation right now so i'm 17 years old i'm on my last semester at a community college and i'm about to transfer to a uc school but i'm faced with two different um

conflicting opinions so

i'm faced with the dilemma where if i transfer to uc irvine i would need to rent out a private house through uc irvine housing and on the other hand if i go to ucla i'll need to get a car um but it's that question of

should i lease or should i buy because my surroundings of family and friends are they're they're both raising pretty good arguments for leasing and buying so i don't know what a car

oh okay well the only people that promote leasing a car are broke people

okay i mean the wealthy people don't

lose cars i mean a few of them do but but by and large let me tell you we did a study of 10 000 millionaires the largest study of millionaires ever done none of them not a single one of the ten

thousand said you know i became a millionaire because i i really leveraged the use of that car by borrowing on it

yeah not one i mean it wasn't a small

percentage it was freaking zero armin now this is

not your broke friend or family member who can make an intellectual argument this is real millionaires they don't borrow money on cars dude and when you ask them what the largest mistake they ever made in their working lifetime they usually say i borrowed to buy brand new cars i bought a new car i bought a brand new car when i was 26 and i was so stupid

when i was 26 and now i'm 46 and i'm i would have been a millionaire four years sooner if i hadn't bought that stupid buck car on payments that i couldn't afford to buy so to answer your question norman i drove a 1988 twitter turcel easy hatchback it cost a thousand bucks i bought it from some lady at my church whose husband had passed away and that got me through my undergraduate

it got me through my first year of my professional job and that's still driving somewhere right yep buy the cheapest beater car you can get to get to and from you're a 18 year old kid don't take financial advice from broke people son this is the ramsey show

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sean and char are in denver and it says on my screen that you guys are debt free

congratulations thank you how much have you paid off

we paid off a hundred thousand dollars in 27 months wow good for you and your range of income during that time it's actually pretty steady we are about a hundred thousand dollars a year okay so kind of like the lady i was talking to a minute ago making 140 to pay off 37 they paid off 127 months making 100. exactly so i have to hear the story now because it seems like maybe i know what i'm doing okay so allegedly what kind of debt was the

100 000 our debt was the irs

heloc like credit cards auto and medical

bill wow i mean you had so you had some nasty

piranha in that pond yes yeah the tax man was uh not real

happy with us yeah how much of the 100k was was was the kgb i mean the irs it was about 20 000 with the irs how did you end up owing that much in taxes uh well i went a few years without

uh filing [Laughter]

yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna go with a my bad on that one yeah i'm just thinking that yeah i got it oops yeah so uh what happened 27 months ago what was your wake-up call two and a half years ago uh well so sharon and i have both

been through one marriage already so when we met we decided that we were gonna base our relationship in uh god's word and uh try and live

our relationship by his will and uh

as as we were moving through and we decided to get married and we were planning our wedding we were kind of noticing how much it was going to cost us and uh you know as part of being

living in god's will was to be good stewards of his blessings so you know and being one of the blessings that he's given us is you know our financial uh money and

how much we make and you know so we're we were talking about it and decided that you know we wanted to cash roll our our wedding and we wanted to get out of debt and you know start our our life together on on the right foot so that's kind of how we decided to do that and i'd heard of uh you from years ago

you're kind of a household name around our our family and um so we got your book

and we were reading it to each other uh

before bed for about a week or so how romantic right yeah right well i gotta admit i put char

to sleep a couple times that would be me you were reading it but i would be the one but that's great i love it so a hundred thousand dollar income what do you guys do for a living um i um own my own hair salon

business in boulder colorado yeah

and i am i i design medical equipment very good okay so you've been married about uh two and a half years three years uh coming up on two years in may okay so you started the process a little bit before marriage then yes okay excellent excellent well

congratulations you guys who had the first conversation with who who actually sat down and said hey what if we did this because that first conversation especially for a new couple takes a lot of courage a lot of vulnerability who who's the first one to have that conversation that totally is on sean's shoulders

so he looked at his wife and his soon-to-be wife and said what if we just scaled back and cash flowed this and what if we stopped spending so much money and you were all in all in yeah oh that's cool yeah

so you were feeling the stress in the pinch too then well yeah we i mean i came into our

um relationship with

you know a good sixty thousand dollars of that hundred thousand dollars that we had and i just didn't you know when you have that much debt you don't i don't

know like i didn't know where i was going and i was living paycheck to paycheck and i didn't want to be like that that was my typical my family's typical

and that's i didn't want to do that i wanted to change that you just think that walking through life with those ankle weights on and not sleeping and not knowing how we're

going to eat the last couple days that's just normal right yeah get used to it yeah yeah how's it feel now that you're out oh my gosh it's amazing uh and honestly

i as soon as we started doing this and we were knocking bills out left and right that's when my i started to feel like i was free

it is great you don't even have to be there you just got to know that you can get there yeah yeah we saw it coming it was great so what did you learn about yourself and about each other through this 27 months

well we were we were just talking about that this morning and um you know one of the things that we learned was you know we we don't always speak the same language when we're talking about our finances and budget and you know just life in general so sitting down and forcing ourselves to

learn how the each other communicates and you know how to how to listen and speak each other's language was really nice and so give me an example of when one of you was speaking french and the other one speaking russian

um you know it usually came up when we

were doing our budget and char would be trying to make sense

of the numbers in in her head and i'm trying to

make sense of the numbers in my head and you know i'm looking at it as you know an engineer and she's looking at it as a hair stylist so

those two things didn't always uh line up okay so the nerd and the free spirit for one thing right yeah yeah or the spreadsheet

lover in the room the guy the guy reading a financial book to his his new wife in bed and the artist right and i'm falling asleep that's right yeah i am the artist right yeah yeah this is great i love it guys you guys are amazing i'm so proud of you very very well done what do you tell people the key to getting out of that is

um well i think that the key or

our secret anyways is that it has to be

you have to get over the heart problem instead of it having a math problem so when you change your heart the math will do itself oh yeah profound very well done

good good job you guys well we've got a copy of rachel cruz's latest new york times bestseller know yourself know your money and it'll help with the russian and the french yes that's what it's for what would you tell to a new couple who's about to get married or just got married that how this benefited you too because i want you to give hope to folks who are thinking i'm not gonna have this conversation

definitely a hard conversation but

i think in the long run i mean it's definitely well worth it i mean it's just to have the debt off of your shoulders and not have to worry about anything like when also the when

the pandemic hit because of my career you know we were

closed for two months out here and we

didn't have to it didn't hurt us as bad as most people would because we were on a budget and um we still live on a budget

even though we're debt free yeah me too i i just i tell everybody that they should

do it whether you're married or you're single because just the financial freedom and that weight lifted off of your shoulders is huge i can't even explain it like

and i i'll even go once i'll go one step deeper and suggest that you all two have worked together on a hard thing they got behind the thing right you got behind the the

fear and you guys worked through something hard together and now you all know hand in hand y'all can conquer anything it's not a matter of if but when life throws its next thing at you y'all two both know we can do this because we've done it we're going to take over the world next there you go man i love it man well it needs a good taking over so would you please get in business hurry up sean hey pay your taxes on the way too brother keep your taxes paid

that way the world won't kick back but yeah i love it congratulations all right sean and char in denver colorado 100 000

paid off as newlyweds in 27 months

making 100 grand count it down let's hear a debt-free scream

three two one

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now let's just round that 27 months up to 36 months and call a hundred thousand 33 000 a year making a hundred thousand

and i will say it for you america dave was right he's always right it's frustrating i sit

next to him and he signs my paychecks

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today julie is in denver hey julie welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi thank you for taking my call sure what's up um i have kind of a funny situation i have a brother-in-law who just offered

to take us on a trip uh this summer

we're on baby step two and this year

already has we've had some extra bills come up with some medical stuff we think it's strange that they've

offered to pay for a trip for us and we don't know how to say no we don't want to go because we don't ever want to pay them back even though it's a gift why is it strange well they have not talked to us for about six years and then in the back excuse me about a year ago they've had a change of heart and want to reconnect that's nice yeah it's nice it's nice

it's your your husband's brother brother yes so is there something about this gift you feel like is going to have strings attached to it yes there my husband

and his brother had a fight over a four-wheeler um about six years ago and it's just now

being repaired whoa the fight is being repaired before

the relationship the relationship like

we're being invited back to family gatherings and stuff oh so you got ruled out a mom

and dad's and everybody's yes you know that was bigger than a four-wheeler right i think so yeah

bigger than a four-wheeler yeah that's probably some 30-year-old stuff that was proxy ward with the four-wheeler i think so it was a joint owned you know father and sons four-wheeler yeah and it got ugly or you don't ever communicate family members over a toy right there's usually other stuff there uh yeah there's big stuff but it's strange you know just the other day they offered to bring us on this trip and we're on baby

step two and we are just not there to go on vacation but it's strange we

don't know how to answer because if we say no it's a money thing and then they say we're paying for it how much of this is um your pride i don't

know well it would be kind of hard to be like thanks for the airfare and hotel and why is that hard

i just don't want it to blow up down the

line and be like well we took you here

i don't know i don't i didn't think about that dr john actually so there's probably i i gotta

i'm gonna defend her a minute okay i'm i don't think it's pride i think she's uh gun shy it feels like you're you're

projecting a future you're well i mean a future these people will blow you up over a four-wheeler why wouldn't they blow you up over yeah come back later and circle around hit you in the back of the head over a paid-for trip that's right yeah but i also if somebody says man what an idiot brother i was for losing out on

six years of relationship hey i want to start spending some intentional time together and then all of a sudden i walk up and y'all are in baby step two of this weird cult that's happening off in nashville and it's like hey cool come with us we're gonna so i in the only reason i'm asking i'm trying to be provocative with you how much of this is you saying i'm too fancy i'm too i've got too much pride to take someone else's money versus no man

if we do this this is going to end poorly for us because i think to answer your question i think it's relatively easy you say hey you know what we're not going to do vacations this year we're going to stay in if y'all want to come visit us that'd be awesome but we're not going to vacations this year next year the year after we can't wait and

then your boundaries are your boundaries and if they want to throw a temper tantrum over that then you've got your question answered for you right okay you knew they're using this as something else otherwise if they say great we can't wait so we can do this again just so you know money's never a thing with us but we're coming we want you with us and we're going to make up for lost time

then you know hey there's something bigger at play here right but trust your gut right

i guess i don't have a i don't have a problem either way with it yeah john's point yeah that uh are hovering

around in his point i i think is um if this is truly an

olive branch don't saw it off that's what i'm feeling and that's why i don't know how to well no i'm saying there's a way to uh to you know push it to the side gently but you don't have to saw it off and so number one you don't need to respond your husband does this is about him right and he responds and says hey bro man i really do want to reconnect

and this is this means a lot to me that you would offer to pay for this and it's so kind and generous of you we are committed to this plan and i know that might not be something you understand but um we're going to stay home but it's not because of anything except we're working this stuff and i know you're paying for everything but it's just it doesn't work for us

this year if y'all want to come down hang out get your hotel in the area you know we'll go to dinner we'll all go out and throw frisbees in the backyard we'll do some stuff like that and then maybe another year we'll go on vacation together but i just can't do it this year and thank you so much for reaching out and if if he then bows up

and goes well you won't take my gift and run around then you go well see there it was okay like john said but it's it's a way to test the waters without smacking the possible reconciliation in the face or without ending up four days into a seven-day cruise reeling like oh no what did we do no we can't get

away yeah we're stuck on a boat now i'm stuck in here with cousin eddie yes yeah okay that's fair

that's fair yeah and and my husband will talk to him i won't respond for him uh i just we talked about it the other day and we're like we don't know how to say this yeah

well it's it's it's it you know it

it is way over there on the edge of awkward yeah but hey julie i also i also want to put this out in the water it is easy from you and your husband's perspective to look at your brother in law and say man i can't believe he burned us for six years over a four-wheeler but your husband's got to own some of that too it wasn't a four-wheeler there's something else going on

there he may not have the tools to have this conversation well so he's gonna know i gotta be gentle i gotta be appreciative i wanna i wanna always go into this thing assuming it's an olive branch i love that analogy dave i'm not gonna cut it i'm not gonna sell it off i'm just gonna move it aside and say not this year but soon but soon yeah gently yeah yeah

but and then that's having you having strength and boundaries and you and it also gives you a little bit of a a little test here because i'd rather do frisbees in the backyard than in cancun for a week yep you know in this weirdness so let's just have a little where there's a little better escape hatch and everybody's not heavily it's heavily committed and you know you

you that kind of stuff so uh yeah i would want we want you to rebuild the relationship if it's possible absolutely and it doesn't have to start on a paid for vacation in spite of your hurt and in spite of your scars yep yeah john is in tampa florida hey

john welcome to the ramsey show how can we help thank you dave and john for taking my call my wife and i are in baby step seven uh we have paid

for rental property that i'm trying to figure out what our roi is on that to determine whether they are a good investment to keep long term we don't we've owned it for about 10 years is it a residential house

uh it's short-term rental actually so they're vacation rentals okay um well usually those have much higher management fees management company takes a big bigger chunk right yeah we actually manage it ourselves okay um and you so you're like running a vrbo type thing

correct okay yeah the benefit is is that you get high rents when you get them but then there's the off correct and we've had a significant increase in property values over the time too which has been beneficial but a significant increase in turnover of the tenants i mean it's week by week it's not yeah okay correct it's a pain in the butt i'm just trying okay on residential traditional residential uh i i own a bunch of houses and our

portfolio averages a little north of eight percent cash on cash

okay meaning that the value of the

property it we generate eight percent of the value after expenses

without depreciation not counting depreciation not counting increase in value cash on cash

also the actual cash you paid for it no the actual cash oh value of the property it it's uh it would be cash on cash if it's cash you're correct but we do it on value we want to see our rents coming up to match the values to keep us around that eight percent mark after expenses now that's a traditional rental house that rents for a year not by

the week by the week you should be making more because you got a lot more labor and you got to account for the gap of no rent and you got those you know you got these gaping holes of off season and all that kind of stuff so yeah you you know if you're not getting north of that you should probably rent it straight up instead of vacation rentage

because you got to paint you're dealing with a pain in the butt this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to

thermsyshow.com

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where dad is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the ever-popular dr john daloni podcast is

my co-host today as we talk about your life and your money it's a free call and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it triple eight eight two five five two two five

triple eight eight two five five

two two five mike is with us

in columbia missouri to start this hour hey mike what's up hey dave first off i want to say um listen to your show for a while and it's changed my life so thank you for that thank you i'm honored yeah kind of facing a decision now i'm

kind of looking to make a change in my career and i'm looking at two jobs both of them are paying a little better than i'm making now but the one kind of on the lower side

it has a better location [Music] i i can't it has just a lot of intangibles that are great about the job as far as a good boss be a part owner in the company um

but on the other hand i have another high paying job that the location is kind of up in the air it's a bigger company and there's probably more room for advancement

i just wanted to see kind of what you thought about that as far as what does each one pay the lower paying

job pays about eighty 000 and the higher

paying job i could probably within two or three years probably make double that okay um doing what in each case

um they're sort of in the sales industry

so you're so you're a sales guy

yeah sales and consultants yeah okay

so the intangibles must be pretty stinking high for you to be willing to take half pay yeah um like you said it's kind of my dream location the the boss is a really successful guy and i think yeah but you're not gonna be

i don't really care about his success i'm worried about yours

yeah unless you're 23 and you're going to put in two years and learn from an extraordinary mentor is going to carry along the way and you're going to have somewhere to go yeah how old are you yeah i'm 24.

okay all right so is that your idea you're thinking you can kind of write you can learn from this guy because he's a he's a butt kicker

um i think that's part of it and then yeah the location is i want to live there it might be more exciting there's something else here what's the what's the the thing you're not saying are you looking for permission to not take this job that you don't really want it's going to pay a lot um

i don't know i guess what's the location what's the location of the of the underpaid one that's so that's so appealing um it's

so i would be in training um kind of around the columbia area and then it's up in the air where i would go it's been thrown out georgia

um that's the eighty thousand different locations no that's the higher page okay what about the one that's got the great location where's the great location in columbia it's no it's in the pacific northwest

black wire like seattle area

okay so you want to move to seattle

uh that's appealing to that area that's appealing to you yes why

i like the outdoors and you know it's nice to be able to kind of go in your backyard and it's all

there and go fishing after work and different things which i know you can do in georgia that's just not the same it sounds like you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself to make a forever decision you're 24 years old man

and if you were telling me that hey i've got the opportunity to work for dave ramsey for two years learn the

ins and outs of this thing and he's going to take me along on the ride and then i'm going to have skill set i'm going to have to get a ringside seat to a world-class leader and then i'm going to have him on my uh as a reference the rest of my life yeah dude i'll i'm i'm going to be real rude for a second go make

the money i'm going to be rude for a second okay if you're coming to work for me and you want to move to franklin tennessee and the reason you want to come to work for me is because you can go fishing i don't think i want you

well i i also like i mean it's in my

industry and it would be um

it'd be like more responsibility and it would be more um i would just have the freedom to do a lot more in the company and and you know help the company make money you grew up in colombia didn't you uh

yeah i've moved all over the country doing different different things i work for a large contractor oh so you've already said okay all right i um

okay here's the only way i know to help you answer the question because i'm just confused about this call yeah me too um the um

what a good way to do this is to john was onto something there it's not forever but do ask yourself the

question what do you want to be doing when you're 34 10 years from today and where do you want to be doing it and what kind of money do you want to be making and what kind of a career field do you want to be in and all those kinds of things and once you identify that ask yourself the question which of these takes you there and

the love of the great outdoors i'm sorry that's way down the freaking list of the discussion on this because if you make 160 versus 180 you can buy an airline ticket well especially for if you're a salesman for the amount of time you're going to be able to get out and go fishing what i'm telling you if you're my friend if you're my son i'm telling you at 24 years of age

you are starting to grind brother go make your money go to a place where you have a lot of influence we're going to learn a lot and georgia is a beautiful wonderful place to live and as dave said man go spend a few weeks in the great northwest um but man get that

stuff under your belt and then you have a lot more options when you're 34 and 44 and 54. yeah but but which of these decisions takes you to where you want to be 10 years from now and that'll get you off the short term of oh i don't want to live here ooh ooh and this guy's a nice guy

none of that takes you where you want to be 10 years from now and so the the the decision-making

variables in this are disturbing and i can't put my finger on exactly why i'm gonna guess if we were to sit down and have some coffee with this person there's a romantic interest at one of these places that has a or a mom and dad interest at one of these places well that's why i asked if he grew up in colombia sound like he's trying to get out of

there ah gotcha get out of the south yeah i got to get away yeah you know i'm getting away from crazy family or something i don't know i don't know what's going on i can't put my finger up but good luck with it dude look out 10 years and ask yourself which of these is going to take you there and hopefully that'll help you answer the question better than

these two goofballs did and she'll go with you trust me yeah she'll come find you if she's worth it or you'll go back and buy an airline ticket or whatever however that works

i think we overthink stuff dave 24 years

old just getting ready listen yeah you don't you know where are you going to college so and so why my girlfriend's going there bad plan

warning warning this

is the ramsay show

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

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789 text trial two

three three seven eight nine dr john

deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five portland oregon is on

the line dave's calling hi dave how are you oh great dave how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

i love it hey man uh good to be on with you uh it's funny we just started listening to your show recently my wife and i up until that point we thought hey man we got it going on and we started listening to your show and went i don't know i don't know if we have it going on let's lay our scenario out for dave ramsey and see what he would say and what he would do any differently than what we're doing okay you know kind of yeah so looking for some notes i suppose okay yeah far away what do you got i don't know okay i'm 49 she's 46.

uh we've got high school age kids i'm a real estate broker i work independently self-employed she's a stay at home um

we own our home not outright that's what we started like questioning ourselves as we're listening to your position on real estate mortgage you know mortgages in general uh how much how much debt do you have other than your home none oh i have one we have we we own three cars two were paid for and mine is a lease okay all right and so what does it take to pay that fleece off uh

you know like 20 some odd grand worth of least favorites probably and what do you well give or take it'd probably be a little less than that but the um well if you're gonna keep the car be more than the lease payments but anyway so yeah probably more like 50 grand or something i guess yeah so what's your household income about 500k cool why don't you just pay that off yeah

you know i'll tell you where i'm all spread around and yeah that's one of the thoughts and actually called my account last year instead of at least make all of my lease payments my remaining lease payments kind of you know tax tax deducted for the year b said do not do that um so here's what i got going out right so i've got my house um we owe about 870 on our house

i have it on a 20-year mortgage start off on a 30 and i know i don't want to have 30 years of the mortgage payment so i refined it to a 20 at two and a half percent nice uh yeah yes that's about six grand

a month taxes and everything all in um uh we own four rental properties

this is kind of also where we started questioning ourselves like dave ramsey said don't buy a property list if you pay it in full yeah um so of the four properties

one of them is paid in full uh and the

other three are about 50 equity they're all

worth say give or take 200 grand and what's owed on the other all less than 100. okay well let's start with let's start with this premise okay you make a boatload of money you're very

successful congratulations very well done what what could i do

to add to the peace

in your life financially and add to the

probability that you end up more wealthy than if you

hadn't talked to me and my suggestion

my suggestion to do that would be let's take this wonderfully large shovel you have of 500 000 a year and let's line up all of your debts your rentals your home and that stupid fleece car and let's just begin to eliminate debt because if you were making 500 000 and all of these properties were paid for wow what a cool place

i should think so yeah and that's going to take a while because you got it sounds to me like you got a million and a half or me and two in debt and you make 500 and so if you put 300 a year on it it's gonna take you four years maybe five years to clean up everything but the beautiful thing is that mathematically you can do that and still live a very tall cotton lifestyle or you can

roll off one of those houses that you owe and if you got one of the rentals you're not thrilled with and use some of that equity to accelerate the process but 870 on your

home making 500 man you can knock that out fast there's no panic on it the other stuff i'd be leaning into pretty hard and more than anything i want you to do what you're doing with this phone call and that's start to get very intentional with every one of these dollars it's easy to get sloppy when you have this much money coming in it's easy to get chaotic

and justify this and justify that because you go i make a half a million dollars you know what you do that's pretty stinking incredible very few people do and that's wonderful so you're obviously a bright guy because stupid people generally don't make that kind of money so that's an observation but yeah but

and dave you taught me this about um scale right so i see a number like 800

000 on a mortgage a remaining mortgage and my heart stops yeah but you gotta lean that against half a million dollars yeah which means nothing so you know take that down that's 87 000 making 50. right and so when i scale it down i remember when i started making 30 and then i went up to 44.

and suddenly i had owed more money than i when i made less money but dave honestly what i was hearing in your voice was just a little bit of as you started listening to us she went you know i think we're not being intentional enough and so i'm going to ask dave for some steps so that i can be intentional i want to i want a path here

because i kind of been wandering around a little bit a little loosey-goosey little margin in the emotions because i made enough i could be sloppy and still look good

good news is you haven't made a bankruptcy mistake you haven't you haven't gone crazy you didn't call me up with uh 87 million you know right you know 8.7 million dollar house yeah i mean you can call me up with any of these things so i i i just think you're wonderful and i

think you've got a lot of potential i would encourage you to be very intentional step by step and a really good idea is let's just lay

out an interesting little simple spreadsheet on how fast we could pay off this stuff if we were intentional and we limited our lifestyle just a little bit just a little bit because two hundred thousand out of five hundred thousand divided into one point two million is six years you know and and i always want to direct people back to the word you said dave i i've never heard

you approach somebody like that but what you asked what you told them is i want to know how i can add more peace to your life and if i can pull some of this can i if i can pull the other end of that fulcrum back right if i can pull the other teeter-totter back provide you less leverage and more peace yeah two words that don't go together financial peace right

you know like you know government efficiency yeah yeah but there's a moment when you're making half a million dollars and you think i should be sleeping better than this i think half a million times i shouldn't feel like i'm doing something wrong you know or that i shouldn't be drowning as much right yeah yeah that's exactly it that's exactly it and you know uh we took a call in

the last hour i think it might have even been the debt free caller um that said you know we suddenly had peace

we suddenly had a sense of control just because we had a plan not because we had executed the plan yet yeah but just going from i don't know what the crap's going on too i know exactly where i'm going this is going to be hard but i can do it and this one's gone and then you get a little bit there's a little piece there's you know

and but there's peace in when you could see the light at the end of the tunnel mathematically and it's not an oncoming train there's some research that says the day you make the counseling appointment for the first time you start feeling better oh man you wouldn't believe the number when we first started doing financial counseling people would call us up and in order to get ready for

the financial counseling meeting they would get their crap together yes and they would cancel we said i talked about it oh we that's how that's happened a lot when you take that first crooked step towards a new trajectory look confused and stumble forward but stumble freaking forward there you go this is

the ramsey show

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oh i love it in the lobby of ramsey

solutions on the debt free stage gabriel is here to do a debt-free scream hey gabriel how are you hello i'm doing wonderful how are you today dave and dr john better than we deserve brother where you live i live in a little township outside of cleveland ohio oh fun that's a bit of a haul to nashville yes it was a beautiful drive the whole way down oh that's nice how much debt have you paid off i paid off 88 000 in student loan debt how long did this take you this took me 34 months good for you and your range of income during that three years approximately yes that would be 42 000 scaling up to 58 000.

excellent what do you do for a living i am a software engineer for a real estate company that's also located outside of cleveland ohio good for you well done dude well done so what was the 88 you said student loan is all student loans it's all student loans and a little bit bigger than i wanted because i did a major change halfway through college and that adds an extra year so it's a little extra debt what's your degree in uh computer science of course good and then you're using it and everything yeah so three years ago you had what feels like an insurmountable debt and you're making 42 000.

so what are you 29 28 close 27

27 all right good very cool he's not only that he's a responsible millennial that's so annoying oh you're messing up all of my stuff all your stereotypes are getting screwed up here exactly right yeah and he actually had a plan and he executed the plan oh lee wow i'm so proud of you man yeah

who was your biggest cheerleader uh biggest cheerleaders i got a couple people to reference one of the big ones is definitely my mother who's here with me today hey mom my whole family i'm down to represent got friends i got an uncle and aunt that said oh you're paying off debt let's find some homework that we can pay you to do got another ant that helped me let me know job opening position

so i could get an extra job in the final year and really knock out the debt so thanks to all of them wow wow so everybody got behind you and gave you a lift yes that's beautiful man there is nothing cool about finally getting out of college at 24 and getting your first job and then saying i'm going to be in it for 36 months with no dates no going out no running around i'm just going to knock

this out what kept you going every single day um every single day definitely looking that at some point you're not gonna own anybody money and it just alleviates all the pain of finding uh money here to go do something fun there because you're restricted by debt and those payments that you need to make so that liberating feeling is definitely what i looked forward to you kept looking at that long game huh yeah play

the long game it wasn't that easy off the start because uh the biggest thing that i found was there's a difference between dave ramsey's gazelle intense and gabriel's gazelle

and hey listen gabe there's a difference between dave's and everybody's but yes you're right yeah it started that first year making 42 and then you look down and you're like all right i'll make double payments on my student loans this is going to be fantastic and then you get through and you um get to 2019 and all of a sudden you're like i should re-budget the whole year and see how good i did and i paid off 14 000 that first year and i'm like that's not bad listen to dave ramsey while on the treadmill and all of a sudden i'm like i could be doing better so i re-ran those numbers budgeted for four things and i actually found out ten thousand dollars i couldn't tell you where i spent it 2018.

thirty thousand the next year and then i got those extra jobs going in the third year of 2020 and then i paid off 44 of the remaining debt in that final year wow that's a curve right there baby power the snowball kicking it you are kicking it well it was more than snowball his intensity snowballed yeah that's that's a snow plow sacrifice well done sir very very well

done okay so you're a professional now 88 000

paid off you're a professional get out of debt guy tell america how do you get out of that um for me what worked best i'm a numbers guy i had spreadsheets i made my own amortization charts so every payday when i sent it off to pay parent minus loans or government loans was like all right you know i only got 24 payments left and then 23 payments left

but having that visualization really helps i also have my um debt-free payment sheet here so every time i paid them off just there's the refrigerator magnet yeah baby visualization that that's what helped me get through it being able to see and actually say all right we're getting closer it's going to happen you know it's gazelle intense when he didn't pull out an 80 dream journal he pulled out a single sheet of notebook paper right

he was like done yeah six folds

yeah hey you mentioned this guy's incredible hitting the treadmill what are some ways you kept yourself sane and whole during this time that's a long time to sprint it is um definitely finding activities that don't require a lot of money are really good so anything that has to do with a little bit of charity work doing mountain biking that's free going on nature walks uh staying home watching movies with friends and family it's it's being active and enjoying life just not with the super lucrative end of it for a short amount of time yeah so what's the biggest thing you're gonna splurge on now that you paid off 88 000.

you're awesome oh i'm so proud of you brother well done very very well done well we got a copy of rachel cruz's book for you know yourself know your money our latest new york times best seller congratulations you're a hero man you did it you took control of your life in a in a culture where uh the the stereotypical news feed

is that your generation is lost and can't do anything and you proved all of that wrong just by taking the taking the range of the horse and riding it well done i'm so proud of you thank you well well done gabriel from cleveland ohio 88

000 paid off in 34 months making 42-58

count it down brother let's hear a free scream three two one i'm debt free

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i love it wow that is

fun fun stuff

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five jason is with us in norfolk hi jason welcome to the ramsey show

hi dave how you doing good man what's up

well i'm calling um for a couple of reasons um my wife and i are working on

purchasing or building a house and we've

been doing your program for now for a little while we've paid down i think nine or ten accounts and we are in uh baby step number two

and uh i think it's been around forty two thousand that we've paid bail in columns and now

the problem is this is that the land that we're building on was heated to us from families specifically to be used for that kind of thing and we're looking to get our house and stuff like that but we have now the only three accounts left are our two cars and a trailer rv trailer that i got

stuck with with a previous marriage um not too much

on it than what it's worth and so we're trying to find out what to do and where we are and snowballing everything what do you owe on it doing that 27 what's it worth

um well i was told by some people 19 and

i've been told 12.

okay so you need to borrow the difference or have the difference what's your household income we make about 152 right now that's good

you can come up with a 10 000 difference and get the things sold yeah

we're working on that the question is it up for sale is it up for sale um

not at the moment i have it at a friend's house because our current place we rent is an hoa and i haven't been able to get it here to prepare it to sell and i don't have a truck anymore to choke how long has it been sitting at the friend's house um about a year i'm calling bullcrap you need to get your butt in the car and go over

and get that thing cleaned up and get it up for sale man get your ten thousand dollars scraped together good hanging onto your old marriage brother this thing needs to go bye-bye and then some of these cars need to go by by and you don't need to be building a house to get this mess cleaned up you stay in that rental house till that happens time to get focused dude you're playing you're eating around

the edges you need to bite right in the middle of the apple here this is the ramsay show

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dr john deloney my co-host today this is the ramsey show open phone's at triple eight eight two five five two two five jack

is in california hi jack welcome to the ramsey show hey dave how's it going better than i deserve how can we help um so i wanted

some some advice on on my current situation

um i started binge watching your show about three weeks ago and decided okay i'm gonna because i want to buy a house soon so i paid off all my credit cards but the

problem i'm having right now is i have a car that's i spent way too much on last year and i bought it brand new because i drive about 100 mile round trip so i

spent 52 000 on my car um

and it's about a 836 dollar payment

um and i was thinking okay i'm just going to go ahead and pay this off um because the value has already decreased to like 38 000 when i looked it up on kelly blue book so what i wanted advice on was i have

about twenty thousand dollars in my savings good and i put my 401k on on hold just last

good because i have i had about 15

going in there i'm 25 years old i got 40k in there which i want to use for a house um

this year i'll make between 120 and 150.

excellent okay so and you the balance on the car is what the balance on the car is about 47 000 because i just bought it in september of last year gotcha so you throw 20 at it and that leaves us with 27 and you make 100 and some change and you pay it off in a year right yeah

so that's what my my question was because i was thinking of keeping like ten thousand dollars in my savings no okay

you're broke man 800.

yeah no it's ridiculous yeah it's horrible i'd be i'd be freaking out yeah

and i i realized uh you know watching your show and then i started paying off my credit card and i was like you know what if i if i want to buy a house i'm going to have a mortgage payment and a 800 dollar car payment you're not doing realistic okay i'll come i'll come to california and box your ears you're not doing that no you no

you you're too smart to do that let me tell you where you're struggling okay you've learned all of this information and implemented all of this in a very short period of time your intellect went way ahead and left your emotions behind

right you know what i'm saying like you understood this intellectually and you went like ding ding ding ding ding and you start doing it and then you're kind of like getting a little bit of emotional whiplash because this has all happened in a relatively short period of time agreed yeah and and you know what watching your show helps me out so much because a lot of this stuff is

the stuff that my my parents are very frugal um and they taught me all this stuff and they were freaking out when you bought this 52 000 car yeah but they let they let me

make my mistakes well yeah you're a grown man and that you know stupid's not illegal and you explained it to them in a good way why you needed this one too yeah 100 miles a week which means i'm going to destroy the value faster that was that was me justifying it in my head yeah but i knew i heard you did when i was doing it yeah

i heard you but you made me realize uh how stupid it is when i started watching your show i think i think you're smart and i think you're going to turn this around it's just the re the reason you're saying but but i'm gonna keep the ten thousand dollars is is not because you intellectually don't see how this is all gonna pan out it's because you've done

it all in a very short period of time and you went from way over here in the land of stupid to rushing over into the land of the wise and it you got a little whiplash doing it emotionally it takes your emotions a little time to catch up so give yourself permission to go this feels weird but i'm going to do it anyway and you feel exposed

when you get down to that one thousand dollars and i think that's the point right yeah we want you running well and we want all that money throwing at this stupid car to get rid of this debt but when somebody binge watches dave they realize oh gosh i'm not safe and they immediately want to get safe now yeah and so it's i get that impulse i gotta hang on to

this and let me tell you the other thing those of you out there that are uh you know you've been broke for 20 years living paycheck to paycheck and you work through this stuff and you work your butt off and you're gonna sell intense for three years and then you're debt-free and you don't have any payments and then you start actually getting some money and then you look up

and you go dead gum i have several hundred thousand dollars and i have no debt there's a there's another thing that happens is your emotions are still back there when you're broke yeah and it feels weird to be able to buy a ten thousand dollar thing and just write a check for it and it's not a big deal yeah mathematically intellectually but your emotions are like back

there when you were broke right so you gotta heal along the way too yeah i mean we spend more on copier paper and coffee here than i used to make right in this building i mean okay i have a thousand employees well i looked down at that number and i said your heart stops numbers going through i'm like i'm that little 28 year old guy that's back

there broke 30 years ago i'm like crap yeah what a coffee

you know it's like oh that's a lot of coffee so you know the last time i bought a new car when i was an idiot was was a long time ago i went to we're looking at buying my wife a a new car and or a used car new to her

i thought when did the prices go up and she was like 25 years ago right but yeah it's that same they want what for a used car but as you move away from uh

one set of financial values

and operating in one financial reality and you move into another one your intellect often goes before your emotions almost always and then like it's like later on so i have to look down at the coffee bill and and go okay this company did bring in 350 million dollars so we can probably cover this coffee bill you know

so shut up you little whining boy yes

but on the other hand i look at that number and it just there's still that it still activates those old emotions and so that tells me that still today my emotions have not caught up with the intellectual activities required to run a 350 million dollar company and it may never

it may every time they do the company grows so i can't keep up that's right that's right i can't keep the same thing with me you know sharon and i were looking at buying something last night and she goes i want to get this and i'm going to spend a lot of money and she told me how much it was and i went that is not a lot of money

you little goob buy it but that nine-year-old little girl from east is still like well that one the one that was terrified and didn't think we'd ever be able to fill up her grocery basket again in the grocery store yeah and now can and not think about it but she's like that's a lot of nanny she's like a mischievous like she's doing something wrong i'm like honey puts two to zeroes on

it and we'll call it a lot of money that's not a lot i think dave that is so wise that whether it's your marriage whether it's your kids whether it's you're in a career money to always just pause have some

built-in pauses to go here's a conversation we're having

upstairs we're working on this new book we're you know we we say here if you're not growing you're dying and i asked the team it just hit me like a lightning bolt what does growing mean to you what does growing mean to you and they were saying you know intellectual stimulation and exercise plan a good morning routine and reading and spiritual growth and all these things and david occurred to me in

this conversation this is just yesterday by the way so i'm still processing it but when you go lift weights you're actually tearing your muscles down it's when you rest that the growth happens and so it's both and right it's it's crushing it and reflection and so it's gazelle intense and i'm in a new stage here you are busting the lactic acid man yeah i'm in a new stage in a new stage

and a new stage and there's the pruning that causes growth yeah and man it's always a breakdown to build up always and when you it's when you read that hard book or that hard class it's at night when you sleep that's when the neurons grow that's when the growth happens right and so it goes back to it's both and maybe i should sleep more i'll always tell

you that yes but i love this gazelle

and hey don't forget to be reflective and realize hey you're safe now you're safe now and now we're gonna start working about giving and building and it's it's just keep letting you make sure your head and your heart stay connected through this whole process man yeah that that's um so jack all of that rant to say that um for everybody else out there listening what you're going through is normal yeah it's a it's a normal part of the process for your emotions to catch up with your intellect take the whole 20 000 down to 1 000 work the baby steps like you heard when you were binging and let's get that car paid off and get that debt out of your life and the good news is you can look back when you're 54 and go you know one of the dumbest things i ever did was back when i was 24.

back at this could you know you may have gotten the dumbest thing out of the way we should have gotten the dumbest thing i was ready for check that list the dumbest thing you're ever going to do could already be on the list that's a win that's a good way to think and at the end of the day you end up with a 50 000 paid off car that's not a bad not a bad way to end the constellation prize this is the ramsay show

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story [Music]

this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the ever popular podcast by the same name dr john delony podcast be sure and check it out he's here to answer your questions about your life i'm here about your money in your life and we've got an opinion about everything so jump in we'll help the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five

five two two five lindsay starts us off this hour in los angeles hi lindsay how are you i'm good dude how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world so i was involved in a classroom in february uh praise the lord i'm okay my baby is okay but my car was totaled um i got a settlement for about ten thousand i believe it was about ten thousand seven hundred

and i tithed on it gave to ten percent to the lord and i have left about 9 500 and my husband and i have 12

000 about 14 000 in debt and

i'm wondering if i use that settlement money to pay off that debt or do i save it to get a new car okay so

the car you were driving the car you were driving that was totaled was worth how much um

i believe it was worth about ten thousand i think they gave me what it was worth okay so this money is for the car that's not for any injuries or anything like that yes sir sorry about that oh that's okay i'm just saying so you were driving a ten thousand dollar car they gave you ten thousand dollars approximately and now you buy a ten thousand dollar car right what's wrong with that plan um well um i'm trying

it's been hard finding a car because i commute i want to get a car that's reliable you were driving a 10 000 car yes sir

before and we were not having this discussion about reliability

okay um okay okay i guess

sounds like you're overthinking it or trying to try to no you're trying as an excuse to move up in cars yeah like you like you're gonna win something you didn't win anything they just made you whole if you if you break even on this deal you you come out really good or if you move down in car you come out really good so what was the car you were driving that got killed it was a 2012 camry okay

not a bad card 2012 camera is pretty

reliable yeah yeah it was amazing i loved it i bought cash for it and i was really upset that it got um so found an amazing

2012 camry for ten thousand dollars because that's what that one was worth okay all right um all right is that okay

yeah i'm i'm i was really wanting something that would get me better gas mileage because i can use it to work than a camera yeah my camera did

it did well it did okay um i just you know not an f-150 i mean so okay what are you thinking

about okay let me just settle this all right dude it will be a mistake please do not for your sake use this horrible tragedy as an excuse

to go further up in car and set yourself back financially and you are rationalizing your butt off i can hear it so here i'll tell you um so what i was

but i was thinking my husband just set the record straight my husband thinks that we should pay this money to pay off the debt but it's cause then you would not have a car right exactly that's what i'm thinking yeah so i i want to use it for a car but i want to finish paying off our debt because we're really really close i want to finish paying off our debt

and then just save like a couple just a couple more thousand dollars to get myself something that's got low mileage and that will do well like a prius lindsey think about

it this way getting in a car wreck was not a scratch-off ticket

you did land with ten thousand dollars in your pocket and if you were walking to work then maybe this is a different conversation but you need a good car to get you to and from and the insurance company did what they were supposed to do and they made you whole and what you're trying to do is figure out how to make be whole plus and you can't okay

i just want you to get back to where you were just get back to zero that's not worse not better that's right you didn't win anything and the insurance did what they're supposed to do they paid you and so go get that same car back and then move on with your day and don't overthink it okay now you know if you if you owed eighty thousand dollars on

the car fifty thousand dollars on the car and this paid the car off and got you out of a mess and we can move you down in car we would talk about that but your car is very reasonable don't move up and and set yourself back and use some of the money you should have been using for debt but you're also not required to move down to a two thousand dollar car either in

this situation so if i woke up in your shoes i would buy a ten thousand dollar car that got good gas mileage and by the way there's prius on the market with that for ten thousand dollars absolutely yeah and i'm not sure that's moving up in car well played i i also understand

you owe very little money left and you've got a ten thousand dollar check in your account and i get that's hard but you can't you don't be careless i mean no you can't but but i get it and then you gotta go on and get a car right if that was gonna work you would have had the car for sale sign in the car when it got totaled

and that's that's that's where she's not able to make that leap right and we think that when we get an insurance settlement we win you didn't man that's not what that's supposed to be no it's supposed to make you whole believe me here insurance settlement and win are never in the same sense right right that never works that way so good question thank you for calling yeah

i love that heart anthony's with us anthony is in los angeles hi anthony welcome to the ramsey show hello

gentlemen good afternoon um i was just calling because uh officially i was i got out of the marine corps for uh i've been in there for four years talking to the phone brother hey all we hear is muffled man you're gonna speak into your phone yeah sorry about that um so i was just

calling uh i just recently got out of the marine corps um i served four years 22 years old and i'm looking to buy my first home with the va loan um i've been approved

for 5.5 uh with zero down and i'm wondering how much of that would be smart to actually use none of it none zero there's not a sentence that's come out so far that was smart except for except for the part where you served your country thank you for doing that that's right but the uh uh all right so let's stop you realize the current interest rate is more like two and some change not five and some change um yeah yeah they're trying to charge you double young man did you hear me

yeah um it was about 3.25 yeah

about 275. okay quotes this morning

so on on a conventional with five percent down what's the hurry to buy a house you're 22 what do you do for a living um i do i t what do you make

uh 90k good for you it's awesome man that's so cool so you got some good training in the in in the military then didn't you oh yes are you married sir no i'm not

married excellent okay all right my advice to

you is to wait a little while longer and use some of your fabulous new income to save you up a really nice juicy down payment and get a conventional loan the fees

and the closing costs are much lower than on the va and uh certainly according to your quote the interest rates are better that's a horrible interesting please do not buy a zero down house in los angeles california with the way the market is out of control right now yeah this is you're gonna be over your

anytime you don't have the money to do something and you do it it never leads to good things just think about it that way i hope we stopped you get a great apartment live your life doubt i did though but thank you for your service this is the ramsey show [Music]

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today hey when folks are hurting we want to

make it as easy as possible for them to get the guidance get the resources they need to win to

get better and that's why we do this every day we want to help folks over the past year our team has been working hard to build a brand new website that makes it much easier for you to find all the

great content the tools the products the services that ramsay has to help you improve every aspect of your life not just your money and guess what it has launched it is called ramseysolutions.com

we invite you to check it out it is well done i'm so proud of our tech team all the research and process that went into it at your one stop shop for everything ramsay ramseysolutions.com all your personalities are there including rachel ken anthony christie dr john and of course me all in one spot you no longer have to go on a wild goose chase to find what you need it's all there easy for you to get to with a ton of great resources check it out it's free

ramseysolutions.com jeff is in grand rapids hi jeff welcome to the ramsey show hey guys thanks for taking my call sure what's up we got a question yeah a question for you i've been with the same company for over 30 years i've invested everything within my own company i've never ventured out to you know independent ross and i've got a

daughter that's recently graduated from college doing exceptionally well where she's debt-free paid the last two

years on her own i helped her out and she got some scholarships she's a young 22 year old with a great job 30 000 in the bank wow and my question is

i want to venture out to prepare for the next stage of my life and get an elp help or investor pro and i don't

know if we should do this together i don't know what the best route for us to go i know that she i i didn't try to pressure her she's ready to invest so she's done everything right and i've preached into her which i haven't really listened to you much i've come on to you the last few months from a co-worker so i'm learning myself

and i just need some guidance as to what to do what she should do both of us i don't know if

we should invest i'm i'm ready to to to hook up with an elp

or smart investor pro is this something we should do together or i don't know you're you're independent adults this is a father a grown lady and her dad right yes yeah your retirement plans

are not combined in any way with the

exception when you die you may leave yours to her but i mean other than that

no i was just looking for an investment yeah you can get you can both go the same guy for investment advice that'd be fine so just yeah just click smart investor pro and you know you can schedule an appointment and go meet with a guy and both of you meet with him and then you can say you what do you think you're going to use that guy or

you know do we want to talk to another one and you could talk that through and just make sure you get someone with the heart of a teacher which you should that's we try not to have any smart investor pros that don't have the heart of a teacher but um yeah it is not necessary that you both be with the same person it would be okay if

you are but it's not necessary and you certainly don't have combined accounts or combined um anything i mean you could share information if you want to you could talk about what we're both doing and how we're trying to win but but um yeah let's let's let her

uh she's done a wonderful job of stepping out on her own and let's let her do that it's a common conversation day that i've had with parents over the years where they've just they've been needed

for their coaching and their wisdom and their guidance and their direction and suddenly they graduate college and they're off doing well and the parent goes what do i contribute to him now yeah and that's that shift where just you're enough just that relationship yeah the fact that your dad she's gonna ask you she trusts you you're a good guy but now your your value is less about

what you're giving and just the fact that you are you're my dad right and that's a hard transition for parents it is it is yeah because we've gone from doing everything for them yeah and to doing almost nothing yeah well and i think we were probably doing less than we thought but we sure gave that advice and we sure said hey don't forget to and then you look up

and you're like i don't know i kept the grand babies the other day they do a lot [Laughter] you're doing a lot for them i'm just saying there's a lot there's a lot of maintenance involved in them critters oh yes there is

theresa is in boston hey teresa welcome

to the ramsay show how can we help hi dave and john thank you so much for taking my call sure um so here's our situation

um my husband and i were both 57 years old we're raising our granddaughter she gets about 500 a month for social security we've just been kind of sticking it in a you know no interest bank account um you have told me and others in the past that that sort of family money not just hers

our my main question is should i be putting that aside for a 5-2 529 plan or should i be rounding out my

retirement um with that extra 500 why is she collecting that social security um her dad has passed away and we're raising her i'm sorry oh my gosh

yeah what in the world oh

how long ago um

six years now and um she's 11.

okay well here's the thing

no you should not be putting it in your retirement and no you shouldn't necessarily be putting it in the 529 it's okay if you put it in the 529 but you are not morally or legally obligated to do that because the ssi that you're receiving is not enough to cover what you spend on this child right she cost your household more than that and um and so then and you are acting as

the parent and so you're going to do what is in the best interest of the child well beyond what the ssi amounts to

agreed yes okay so what is your household income so it's about 140. okay and then you have the 6000 coming in from ssi so 146 correct correct that goes at the

top of your budget 146 and then you go through your budget

regardless of where the money came from whether you made the money your husband made the money with an investment comes in whether there's ssi it's just a pile of money and now we're going to give every one of those dollars an assignment towards the baby steps and

it sounds like you are out of debt and have your emergency fund and you're on four five and six are you um we yes we're out of debt and haven't

um excuse me our emergency fund so you

should be putting 15 of your household income into retirement above in baby step four above that out of your budget that consists of all of your sources of income uh you would put above the 15 going into retirement you would put um uh uh some money into baby step five

towards this kid's college and that's where you're going to load up that uh 529 and if you have an 11 year old you probably are doing more than 500 a month into that

but it has nothing to do with the ssi calculation it just has to do you have an 11 year old you need to get caught up saving for college and that's probably you're probably going to beef up baby step five and slow down putting any extra on the mortgage because you have a rising child heading towards college wide open right we also have i mean

we're 57 so retirement's coming quick and that 500 could help connie there is no 500.

there's no 500. okay there's 146.

okay so i need to put a little bit more

15 yeah of your income

household income into retirement

okay if you want to get real technical about it i only put 15 of the 500 in just now okay

you want to be real technical about this way the math happens to work out but you need to be putting 15 of your total household income in baby step 4 into retirement and then you need to put all you can scrape together beyond that into baby step five because this kid you're late for college and and you're you're moving forward you got 10 more years to work this kid will be out of college and you will have built a pretty good nest egg by then by doing just 15 meanwhile you can work on your house

okay does that mean quit parsing this money out you didn't say uh i'm going to put money aside into retirement for my husband's income and then i'm going to put something aside for my income no we called it a household income there is the whole thing baby the whole thing and you don't help your kid by not having retirement paying for their college and then needing their help for your retirement home later on yeah

you 100 chance you're going to retire not 100 chance they're going to college or to some fancy special one huh this is true this is the ramsay show

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so

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from the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage brent and brenda are with us hey guys how are you hey dave good thank you welcome welcome where do you guys live california we're out where abouts sacramento oh love sacramento awesome and originally from new zealand i'm a kiwi oh fun well good to have you guys how much debt have you paid off paid off 172 thousands uh

172 750 in about 9.2 years

good for you slow and steady and your range of income during the 9.2 uh 130 to 195. what do you guys do for a

living brendan i work in healthcare yeah healthcare i'm

not a nurse though i work like a coordinator back office

type of thing front office so i'm a salesman i sell

moldings and doors excellent very fun very fun so 9.2 years

was this your house yes sir i'm weird you are officially

weird people i paid for a house in california you are double down on weird i love it man i'm proud of you guys thank you we are thrilled what is this house worth probably about 450 and we bought it we bought it for about 2 30. and you own it baby yes sir i love it

so what put you on this journey 9.2 years ago well i've been a fpu coordinator and just uh became a dave ramsey financial coach so we've been leading fbus and i think just

the power of compounding interest and realizing how much money you can bank in your own account you know if you if you get ahead of the mortgage and pay it off you can save thousands and thousands of interest absolutely also i'm in sales so you know in the housing economy it can be up and down so it's up at the moment but one day it's going to be down

so having having no house payment is going to be really sweet when it goes down yeah it's going to well i mean the whole thing just gives you stability yeah well done so brent and brenda the number of i'm gonna get in shape this year's i've done is a lot and i last about two and a half weeks i work out real hard i get all the

the forms and new weights because it's always the way it's pro how in the world have you all kept plugging at this for nine and a half years we're in it together it's a team effort

and uh we both were determined we both had like a little sign in the refrigerator saying we're going to pay the house off in this amount of time and this year and so we've been plugging away at it but we haven't skimped so much we've budget everything really well use the financial principles techniques

and also just a testimony to

the people in our class too as well

so and sometimes it seems like that date is a far off a little bit but once it starts getting closer we start getting more excited and stuff so it's like okay we're going to pay the house off in this amount of time and we'll be debt-free so so when you put the number on the refrigerator the very first time all those years ago

how far how long did it say it was going to take you well it was technically october 2021 so

um we just our mortgage was about i think about 10 90 we put down 2 300 a month and just pounded it so you beat it by about six

or eight months over the original six or eight months yeah very few people go longer than the original go yeah you almost always surprise yourself to some degree mm-hmm yeah and you guys did you were the real tortoise i mean just kept plodding man yep yes definitely that's beautiful the beautiful tortoise thanks to our coordinators out here the three coordinators who really inspired us and uh and helped us how many classes have

you all led well we've only led three classes um the last one was a virtual but fantastic because we got to uh coordinate with people from alaska and minnesota just flipping awesome oh that would be a zoom yeah yeah the virtual coordination is it's a different animal but it's also very cool yeah very cool very cool most of our coordination coordinators now are virtual so good for

you guys i'm so proud of you all right now you're professionals you have a paid for house in california you're professional debt reducers what's the secret how do people get out of debt well i think it's actually writing things down i i teach my students hey write down what is your 20 year goal and put it somewhere put it in the bathroom like we did put it on

the refrigerator and if you have a goal if you have it written down you walk past it every day and and it just helps keep you focused and and also teaching fbu you know you're accountable to the other students but yeah just writing it down having a goal is important for us yeah fabulous yeah keep it in front of you is on anything maybe that's the secret for

the gym thing john [Laughter] appreciate you brent thanks man just kicking me while i'm

[Laughter]

that's kind of a little deterrent so but you got to keep plugging away and be creative i don't know that sounds like an excuse you should probably write that down and put it on the fridge

so hey who's who is beside your classmates who is your biggest cheerleaders well i i gotta tell you uh we're pretty self-motivated but um yeah just self-motivated i

i'm on the scale of personality you'll appreciate that uh john is i'm probably like at 11 as far as discipline so i had to be careful to work with brenda you know not just save save save save but she can spend a little money on this a little bit of money on that okay

and she works in healthcare brent so they will never find your body brothers

like you john

we have things we can do with you [Laughter] you guys are fun that's all this is so great i'm so proud of you thank you how old are you oh uh 59.

59. yeah okay so for women don't ever ask them

it's too late because i don't care i promise i won't say she's 59.

so i'm older than both of you so no whining okay so yeah but you're sitting here with a paid

for house did you ever think you'd get there we did but i i want to share i remember at 4 35 a.m i

was in bed i got my um online payment paid the last

payment of 15 000 i remember your statement about how it feels so different got up out of bed and i walked across the room and it felt like i was walking on air and i remember that statement you made it it was so amazing and i i told all the class i said hey remember those positive moments paying that small debt off you know remember and embrace that

because the positive motivation is more important than the negative don't do this or don't do that so that's true yeah that's true there's a lightness that is very real oh tangible fantasy that people that have never been there don't have yeah i'm so proud for you guys thank you very much what a testimony to younger folks who are looking at a pile of student loans and say it's going to take me three years

and you guys have set a marker out there

that says yep it will and it's going to be worth it you're just going to get up and do it every day and do it every day and do it every day you're going to find somebody do it with you and you're going to keep doing it and then you're going to have that moment where you float across your bedroom and it's going to all be worth

it it was wonderful thank you thank you for the inspiration you guys wow we're so proud of you you're our inspiration you're heroes well done very well done all right here it is 173

000 paid off in 9.2 years

by the way that's about seven months early making 130 to 195 house and everything

these guys have a paid for california

house shut up count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

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[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

it changes the whole equation for the

next decade everything everything's changed so imagine in a year the the real estate market is is settling and his boss calls him in and says hey we're gonna have to we're gonna have to to downshift our sales goals for doors and he'll go all right and all right

have a good week man hope i hope you're

good hope you're doing okay yeah yeah if you need a hug holler at me i'm gonna be i'm gonna be hanging out with brenda i'm going to be going on the buy that free back porch yeah because we don't uh have a house payment have a good one brother so cool guys this is the ramsey show

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so

our scripture of the day zechariah 4 10 do not despise these small beginnings

for the lord rejoices to see the work

begin francis of assisi said

start by doing what's necessary then do what's possible and suddenly you are doing the impossible for the lord rejoices to see

the work begin

sometimes you cannot see the end when you start but you need to start anyway that's what

we're saying just start just start

you know how you become a writer you're right you start writing i don't know what to do an exercise program just start doing it anyway just start our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they will remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos

they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best deal all right today's question comes from ginger in california she writes my husband refuses to deposit his whole check in our joint account and hides money in a separate account he deposits only enough to cover our expenses then turns around and withdraws large amounts later he's a good father holy crap don't want to ruin my kid's life

if we divorce that's it so

number one he's not a good father number two he's ruining your kids lives not you

being forced to do something about this

so there's not really a question here dave this is more of a statement

yeah your husband is a twerp

he is not husband material he is not father material he is a self-centered little child

yes and he's yeah

he's doing just enough to keep his kids fed and you fed but he's a manipulative power hungry

idiot and then he doesn't even care about y'all being fed later on because he'll go get the money back yeah so uh what does she do from here um sits

with a counselor absolutely and then she's the fact that

she said i don't want to ruin my kids lives if we divorce tells me two things number one she's thought about it or number two the people in her life have said you're this is over and so she has built this up as i'm not going there and so i have met with people who have said i won't do that and to which you say okay then

this is the bed you're choosing to be in you're gonna have to make the best of what you got inside of here i'm going to tell her this type of manipulation usually comes with violence and or

volume and or other types of neglect and manipulation beyond just the money this is a symptom right and she's got to sit with a counselor and begin to create a a or what plan because this is a mess yeah

and it's the to give you the strength

um the assurance that you're not crazy correct or wrong correct and the words

the narrative on how to calmly

lay down what will eventually become an ultimatum right or what yeah yeah and you're going to say you're either going to uh provide for this family by putting

your whole check in the thing and we're all going to work together or we're going to talk about how we're ending this marriage because i'm not going to live like this anymore and these kids are not going to be raised with you as a model for what a husband and a father and a provider looks like yeah because yeah you're damaging your children by allowing them to think he's a good father yes you're throwing gasoline on a legacy forest fire yeah you're

there because they're going to duplicate what he does times 10 yeah right yeah and to the extent he's yelling at you then they're going to yell and hit yeah and to the to the extent that a

the mother of your children is simply an annoyance and in the way of whatever thing you need to buy whatever event you need to attend that's how they're going to treat romantic partners for the rest of their life yeah and you're just you're painting a model here's what that looks like yeah my life is more important than all of y'all's combined my wants and toys and fun

and stuff yeah the opposite of this is we often tell people what is the best thing you can do for your children love their mother well that's it when somebody says that's the exact opposite of this whole thing how do i help my kid with uh screw my kids up drinks mistreat their mother that's exactly right hey my kids got anxiety what i do fix your marriage hey my kids are struggling with xyz fix your marriage have a great marriage start

there and then we'll start talking about the other stuff yeah yeah yeah i'm sorry ginger

i'm sorry it's a horrible thing it's not even a question here it's a horrible thing you're in but the uh if um you know what we're seeing

you know with what you the information you gave us uh was not throwing your husband under the bus if it was truthful and it is accurate and um then you are

sitting in a mess and you need to do something about it that's what we're saying yeah and you probably are gonna need some help to do something about it it's very few people can navigate these things by themselves you need someone to give you language to it and someone to say

look what you're feeling in your heart that this is wrong and you're being mistreated is correct it's accurate it's accurate because you start to feel like you're the problem and you're not the problem it's almost a domestic abuse thing and here look at what she says i don't want to be the one who ruins my kids lives yeah by taking care of me and my children you know what

he has said that to her absolutely if you leave me you'll destroy these kids if you don't quit yelling at me about the money you're gonna you're gonna mess these kids up and she says oh my gosh i'm so sorry i'm so sorry yeah it's got the same tone of a domestic violence that's why you said violence you know ryan is there ryan's in louisville kentucky hey ryan how are

you hey gentlemen thank you so much for taking my call i truly appreciate it sure how can we help well um

first off i just wanted to say thanks to your guys program uh my wife and i we paid off 160

thousand dollars worth of debt debt-free number 2018.

so yeah that was awesome and um

i guess now we're sitting at uh what would be baby step six but we're are on active duty

military and we rent everywhere we go

good and and so i want to be saving so

that when i do retire um you know we can pay cash for a house so one can i save above the 15 and two if i

can where sh where should you know what type of account should i be putting that into yeah your baby step six just goes in a separate mutual fund and you nickname that the house fund and you pretend like you're paying off a 200 000 house and you try to get 200 000 in there okay

okay because um so one of the things that i'm looking at is i'll get promoted uh later on this year so i'm gonna get a little over a thousand dollar uh pay bump you know per month and so i just don't know how much of that i guess should i be well you should know out of your budget you're on baby steps four five and six you should be putting 15 of your income whatever your income is into retirement maybe step four five is kids college do

you have kids going to college um they're all they're all taken care of

gi bill got it gi bill and then uh

and and then some are just in in the military themselves oh okay wonderful okay so that check that box right uh and so then you say all right everything above 15 goes towards paying off the house early only we don't have a house so we are building a payout pay cash for the house fund so you basically which is the exact same math yeah so you throw everything in that other mutual fund in baby step six above 15 go of your household income going into retirement

so in other words if you've got a raise of a hundred and of a thousand dollars you're going to raise your retirement by 150 and that gives you another 850 to throw towards this get out of debt house fund okay and i just want you to pile up cash like fast and furious like you were trying to pay off a house exactly and the average person pays off their home in seven to eight years doing our plan

and so seven to eight years from now i want you to have enough in there to pay cash for a house okay be the same same exact math it's just you're getting the benefit of the money instead of the mortgage company okay yeah it'll work for you instead of paying that interest out that's excellent man yeah very well done sir and again thank you for serving your country yeah

we really really really appreciate that and um yeah when you move around every two years because they move you and most of the housing is in a military community where it's tough to sell a house you can get really stuck if you start buying properties everywhere you go so we tell folks if you're moving every two years for any reason but particularly in the military don't buy just rent

so he was following that advice but this gave him a leg up on the how to offset the situation there nothing cool to get out of the military and writing a check for your home right that would be pretty neat that would be pretty neat that puts us hour of the day ramsey showing the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace

and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 188. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 20, 2021)


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this is the ramsey show you can be intentional

about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king the paid

off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality the creator of business boutique and all things christy wright is uh my co-host today as we take your calls about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five speaking of business

boutique you were saying right before we went on the air that popped up on your phone there's five years ago today that the book was uh in launch mode you're in your first week at launch yeah it was launch week we were in nashville for the signing it was one of those memories that came up on my phone it's hard to believe five years ago the book came out

but it's incredible too because this book continues to sell you see this and it continues to help people it's the plan to help them get their business idea off the ground and grow it so equipping women to make money doing what they love i can't believe we've been saying that five years it seems like it's 20 minutes of course of course the book launched as a number one bestseller

and it's all about equipping women to make money doing what they love to go with that around that same time i guess maybe in the f months following that we launched business boutique academy yeah which uh is all about christy teaching ladies how to start and how to run a

business yeah so this is really just our coaching model because it came out of our first event in 2015 we had these amazing success stories but women would come home from the event they're fired up but then they're thinking oh well i ran into something i didn't know how to deal with or i lost motivation or i got discouraged a few months later and i thought you know

i want to walk with them over time in their business i want to help them have the motivation but also the advice and tools and steps they need to take and so we launched the academy back in 2016

and it has been incredible i've had women that that joined in 2016 that have stayed with me and you have some that have been joining since then but it's a six month coaching period this is not a you know a

private facebook group where we just sit around talk this is you actually teach them to freaking do stuff and they go freaking do it yeah we have a this is serious business it is and it's interesting too because it doesn't matter what type of business you're in you're all in business i have the most common question i i am asked dave is but what about this type of business

but what about a salon but what about fitness coaching but what about multi-level marketing nonprofit for-profit what it does you're all in business and that's what i specialize in i want to teach you the business principles that you take and apply to your specific business to help you win and so uh so yeah we only open twice a year we're open right now we opened yesterday we closed thursday night

and what we do is we have an open enrollment where new members can come in and join and then i walk with them for the next six months in their business to help them chase their goals their dreams figure out what their version of success is and then give them the tools to get there so and that keeps you in in the class you know if you're a freshman or a sophomore or senior there's not people joining every day

and leaving every day right exactly they're in there together and the community's part of the aspect of it it is there's such power i actually put them in buddies and so it makes the big group feel smaller and then i give them weekly emails and curriculum on what you're going to discuss with your buddy what you're going to work on in your business and we're all on

the same track focusing on the same things together we do something really cool dave that i actually started last year out of covet and you know we were all pivoting trying to figure out how to make it work with covid one of the things that we came up with is a 250 challenge so the cost of your membership is 244 so i came up with a 250 challenge

and i challenged them to make 250 in seven days and i give them a whole list of ways to do this we all rally the community gets a lot of it i just get so excited you have people posting the facebook group and what's so cool is they do this the majority of them do this and they've made their membership feedback in seven days and you've made roi in

the first seven days so it's just it's a really powerful community but it's amazing to see to see how when women get the help they need when anyone gets the help that they need they really can do this thing they think you know i'm not business business-minded i'm not cut out for this no you are you just need help like we all do in any area of our lives that

we need help with yeah i don't think a four-year-old gets up and goes i'm not bicycle-minded right right i wasn't cut out for this you're still gonna have to learn to ride it baby right that's how it works enrollment for the academy is open as christie said through thursday night april the 22nd just about 24 more hours 48 more hours and it's only open twice a year

so you don't want to miss your opportunity to get in on this training the tools and the support uh and it's odd that it's uh you know coming up on the week that is the anniversary of the launch of the book so uh join the academy at ramseysolutions.com academy and you can become a part of this incredible community of women who are making money doing what they love

that's so important the book is also on sale right now among our other books on a ten dollar special at ramsey solutions.com store so total money makeover business

boutique rachel's books ken's books

virtually all of our best-selling books are in there on sale right now with a 10 sale at ramsey solutions.com so be sure

and check that out as well but the academy open through thursday night

april the 22nd shuts off at what time thursday night eight o'clock thursday night and um again ramsay solutions dot com slash academy and you'll get the help from christy the one-on-one coaching the

the community the challenges everything you need to do to get moving and get started in that business or take your existing business and move it to a different level and it's a very unique community

and it's all about changing everything the ramsey baby steps community uh kim little our manager of that community uh said if you want to be part of like-minded people jump in on our facebook group it's called the ramsey baby steps community and

it's massive i mean several hundred thousand people in there juliana says i'm a single mom that's blessed to have my mom able to help me with my kids i'm in baby step two it seems like it's going slow i want to get a second job my mom is supportive but i don't know how to balance my two kids i actually need my help i know i need to get out of debt

but i'm torn yeah this is one of those things that a schedule is your friend because if you're waiting until you have time left over to put money toward to work on a second job or start a side business from home or whatever that is there's never time left over and there's certainly never time left over when you have young kids and so i think that it can be in your favor to come up

the schedule whether it's nap times weekends what is can do you know maybe it's from 7 to 10 pm you bust it and try to get creative with working from home or freelancing or that type of thing with some flexibility but the reality is you have to have some type of schedule and structure otherwise you're going to always feel like you're coming from behind and so what is what is realistic

but also a stretch goal to help you do what you want to do to maybe speed this up and get extra money yeah and but also real estate all work is not profitable so you need to actually be doing something that makes money yeah i mean i would i take a retail job and be away from my kids for minimum wage no right no you need to be doing something that's two three times what minimum wage is whether you're running your own gig doing something on

the side uh i don't care what it is you're doing but figure out something that's gonna pay really well number one number two then map it out and go okay this is only for two years or this only for 18 months or it's 19 months and then i'll be out and then i can go back to a regular schedule so if it pays really good it's only for a reasonable period of time

you can lock it in that'll give you the energy to do it and the third piece of advice i've got is work while everybody else is asleep yeah yeah do your 4am reps what can you

do what can you write what can you uh what can you you know what orders can you fill on ebay at four in the morning what uh what questions can you answer how can you work when others sleep because those kiddos aren't there you know and you know the amount of time people spend that's supposed to be spent with their kids in front of stupid television you know

you just take that out just throw a brick through your tv you find all kinds of hours all kinds of hours in your life kristy wright ramsey personality is my co-host

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today [Music]

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what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

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chrissy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five carly's in buffalo new york hey carly how are you i'm well dave how are you better than i deserve what's up um so my husband and i recently

he was in an accident in september we recently received a settlement of a hundred thousand dollars wow okay not

uh yes actually like he is nearly

fully recovered so we got really lucky on that one wow sounds like it's a bad accident he

it was a very bad accident he uh broke his leg surgery all of those and all those bills have been paid yeah it was covered yeah okay so in addition you got a hundred thousand clear and he's okay now yes okay

all right and we're just not sure what to do with it i know there's worse problems to have but this feels kind of burdensome like i don't want to mess it up you know like i feel like yeah

uh until we don't know i don't know i don't know real estate or what to do i understand yeah you want to be careful with it and wise well we would apply it wherever you are on the baby steps so let's walk through that a little bit do you have any debt other than your home no no home debt either no home debt okay so you're completely out of debt house and everything what's your household income

uh about 33 a year 32 000.

okay and um do you have an emergency

fund of three to six months of expenses

yeah yeah it's closer to nine months good good well you're in really good shape you've done it it was lucky to have that when he got hurt i bet i bet yeah you've done a great job you're in great shape congratulations well um you know yes you could buy a piece of real estate if you want to buy that and pay cash for it uh might be pushing it to find a hundred thousand dollar property in buffalo i don't know uh things are going pretty high

yeah maybe you could but i would not want you to go into debt for a rental property i think that'd be a bad plan and so if i'm in your shoes then that's going to put me in mutual funds probably and so uh and you need to take your time and understand that investment and um

you know move through the the process of learning on that before you actually make the decision a good way to do that is to connect with one of our smart vester pros click smart vester at daveramsey.com ramseysolutions.com click smart vester too many changes for me remember all this credit and um yeah and anyway so yeah ramsey

solutions.com click smart vester and it'll drop down a list of the smartvestor pros in your area that you can uh connect with sit down in order for them to get our endorsement they have to have the heart of a teacher they have to be willing and able to sit down and teach you because you should not put money in something you don't understand and so you know

when you're doing something new like investing it's it's intimidating yeah that's why you need someone that knows that specifically and i think some people feel like oh i'm supposed to know this no even inside this building we use investment professionals for our investments because they are experts that's what they do all day every day but to your point you want to go to someone that is trustworthy that's in line with what

we teach because if not they could explain things in a way that you don't understand and you end up making some mistakes so you want to go to someone you trust yeah i just sat down and spent an hour with our tax professional that does that handles the ramsey family oh god tax bill

and uh all the stuff and and you know

there's no way i'm gonna understand freaking 10 billion words that the irs wrote and know them all that's his job uh but i do need to understand enough of it that when i put my signature at the bottom of that return that i know what it's saying right i may not know every little nuance and every little thing perfectly but i need to get the gist of what we're doing

so that i'm not just blindly signing things and not looking at them yeah exactly and that's the same with investing it's the same with doing your will these are things that you don't have to be you know you can put an expert in your corner but even somebody working on your car they come in and go well you know it's gonna be eighteen hundred dollars to fix

the gym again the jimmy gag and what the flips of jimmy gay you know you're gonna have to tell me what the sparkle mana flaps are i mean i i'm gonna have to get a figure out start over please you know 1800 bucks you just got my attention so now i want to know what the flip's going on here and so you know you have to be taught

and and you don't blindly trust anyone not because we're cynical right but because it's our job to be responsible for our decisions

where you get screwed on anything from car repairs to investing anything else it's when you don't understand what you're doing and you just went oh that's my guy he takes care of me it's my guy or you're too or you feel like you're going to look stupid if you ask questions like this is your money it's a hundred thousand dollars or whatever you're doing it's your cards eighteen hundred dollars ask

the question say well now what does that word mean we matt and i just sat down with our investment guy a few months ago to kind of do a reset on where we're going what we're doing and there were several things he said that i go what does that word mean i don't even know what that word like and he explained it to me it's like okay

so don't be scared to ask questions this is your money that you're investing you can ask those questions and really good people will answer them in a way you can understand an attorney a few years ago we were working on not not litigation but on a just a contractual situation and he's

like you know because i said so and i went hey dude you just got really confused that that's

you work for me and i'm getting ready

fire your butt try again oh my god because i said so what do you think you are my dad he doesn't know you he didn't know not to say that bless bless his heart yeah right well he knows now irene is in

san antonio hey irene what's up

good afternoon mr ramsey thank you so very much for taking my call my pleasure how can we help i've been

listening to you for about five years now and i followed all your steps so i have totally eliminated all my credit card debt i've eliminated all my student loan debt i have two vehicles i have absolutely no car payment i have and five thousand dollars

left on my home and uh my question is i want to go back

to school to pursue my phd um and i was wondering if that's

a wise thing for me to do the reason why i want to do that is because i've become absolutely passionate about my field of mental health and so i want to teach on a university level very cool that's awesome first of all congratulations yeah paying off all that debt that's amazing yeah thank you i followed each and every step of mr

ramsey and it completely transformed my life over the past five years you're amazing that's awesome so you're paying cash for the phd uh well what i'm going to do is i still have 40 000 left over in grant money that i can put towards my education and then i'm going to take the rest of it out of my um out of my savings to pay off the rest

so not that much but i have enough to cover it so i'm not going back into debt ever good good and you're not dipping into the emergency fund to do this no absolutely not i have plenty left

so you're going to pay cash for a phd with a grant and the excess savings and it's what you want to do well why wouldn't you do it because i couldn't find it anywhere in your book why didn't you write a chapter on that that's your fault yeah i i don't write a lot about phds the only one i've gots in d-u-m-b so i was like i'm gonna call because now

i've done all the steps basically and i just need to education is not really one of the steps other than pay cash for it for your kids education in baby step five and in any purchases you want to do we're paying cash for it and this is not a luxury it's career advancement you're going to move into a whole new phase of your life and you've positioned yourself to do

it this is fabulous you want to do it you have the money for it and it's moving you in the direction of where you want to go that checks all the boxes for me irene you got it touchdown thank you so much

i appreciate it i'm awesome appreciate your asking our permission but i think you're all right that's right yeah you you're a rock star absolutely amazing yeah that's uh uh and that is one you

know if you're going to teach at the university level then you know that is permission to play this table that's table stakes that's right you got to have that to be to teach at that level and so and it's a wonderful field too yeah i mean we got john delony around here and he's got two phds he's fairly normal

most days most days some days

not so much most days yeah we keep him

fairly much in line james and kelly do on his podcast but it's a full-time job this is

the ramsey show

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hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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christie wright ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money steve is with us in york pennsylvania hi steve how are you good how are you better than i deserve what's up um the company i work for was bought recently and uh the pension i worked on for 12

years or that i was given for 12 being there for 12 years he offered me three options one was to do a lump sum

or two to get a really small payment

starting like next month or three ways to wait till i'm 65.

lump sum i just wanted to see what maybe you would choose lump sum it's a no-brainer and you roll it direct transfer rollover into an ira and there's no taxes on it okay how much money is it uh 23

500 okay so let me tell you what happens if you die no not if you die when you die

that pension gives you zero

right yeah okay uh you die with 23 000

in your ira you know what your estate has 23 000

okay and you can invest it where it will grow faster and better than it will inside that pension by putting it in good mutual funds so you're better while you're alive and you're better while you die when you die and so this is like what's known as a no-brainer you do this immediately always take the lump sum pension when you can and run okay

make sense yes makes feel sense okay

thanks for the call brother open phones triple eight eight two five five two two five the old pensions are just

about dead yeah we don't get a ton of calls about that but that's interesting because i don't know the i didn't know that that when you die you don't get it in a pension i didn't know that is that any any any business any pension any pension not 401k yeah 401k is yours you own it the pension's actually an asset of the company it's not an asset of yours i didn't realize 401k is your asset yeah and so if the company goes broke you can lose your pension and technically speaking um and you can't

lose your 401k if you're going to go broke but if you work for a company that offers pension do you take it you don't have a choice it's just you have to give it you get it most companies like

78 of them have done away with pensions there's just a few mainly bigger ones it's an old school thing and yeah and some old governmental agencies and things unions that kind of stuff it's mainly things that just haven't kept up is what amounts to that are still doing pensions because the 401k is much more advantageous to the user sure so isn't this back in the same kind of time frame

when you know people worked at the same company for 40 years got a gold watch and a retirement party and yep that was enough and your pensions your pension built up over time and the the thing about the pension is you don't put anything into it they put into it you don't put anything into it so it doesn't quote cost you anything but what it can cost

you is your future by counting on it and not having other other side things to do stephanie's in rochester new york hi stephanie welcome to the ramsey show hi how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world um well my husband and i are trying to decide if we should purchase a used vehicle or if we should keep a vehicle that needs to be repaired

um what baby step are you in we're in

baby step two okay why would you what's the repair

uh it's it's like a muffler issue

but it's like um leaking uh

fumes into the car and they said it's gonna cost about eight hundred dollars what's your car worth uh

i think it's about maybe like 2500

um with with me it was gonna take 800

to fix a muffler um it's the repair shop

i know what i mean just an independent repair shop or a muffler shop or the dealer uh it's an independent like car repair shop have you gotten other quotes

no okay that's first clue

um you you always get more than one quote when something seems weird because this sounds a little weird that sounds super expensive for a muffler issue and i don't know cars stephanie at all but that just sounds expensive i thought so too but i mean i might be missing part of it yeah you could be and we could be too but it's worth checking on further because

it could be 400 which changes the conversation doesn't it yeah you wouldn't even calling us you to fix the car 800 puts it on the bubble so how much do you have in savings we have uh 5 000 right now and we're expecting to get about 2500 back from our taxes and i've kind of been nervous about putting that toward our debt because of our cars and not knowing they're both kind of older higher mileage cars

and i was thinking you know within the next year or so we might need to replace them but i don't know if it's smart to just hold on to that money in case something happens to the car or just not worry about it pay down the debt and then you know well you're you're working your plan happens if you're working our plan if you're working our plan

you apply the money towards the debt yeah i just even if your car is like possibly going to be breaking down honey cars are all possibly going to be breaking down every one of them every car in this parking lot is possibly breaking down at any moment how much debt do you have um ten

thousand seven hundred fifty dollars and what's your household income about 42 000 so i mean with the money that you have and the money that you're expecting to get you just need to be debt-free soon yeah if you quit holding onto your muffler money

you know i i don't want you to die from carbon monoxide poisoning so i do want to get this fixed and get some more bids on it and find out how dangerous it is or does it just stink and so on and you know so when we were going broke

i mean we were coming out of going broke and trying to dig our way out doing what you're doing and we were so broke we couldn't pay attention and we were scared just like you are i was driving a car that the transmission main seal busted on it now let me tell

you what that means that means the transmission fluid leaks out of the transmission you know where it goes onto the muffler and you know what it does it smokes like a james bond car or something it's put out a smoke screen behind me it looked like a movie and i had to put transmissional fluid in the thing almost every three days just to keep it running but

i just kept pouring transmission fluid in it and smoking up the neighbors and um and finally finally we got the other side of it and i got the money to fix the stupid car after i got the debts cleaned up and uh but i limped through because i

had to change my direction and that's what i want you to do i don't want you to do something that's dangerous the car i was driving wasn't dangerous it just stunk but uh and the neighbors thought it's funny and it's a funny story now it wasn't funny that it was embarrassing as crap but uh but i did drive that old beat up thing and i i got through

and now i drive whatever the flip i want to drive because i've got the money now and the reason i got the money is i i didn't keep falling back into the same trap my 1996 jeep grand cherokee dave it's a piece of crap like a go-kart it smells well you probably hauled goats around in it because you had goats i actually did but that's it smell like no

it stunk like that that that oil smell like a go-kart like if you were at the go-kart races i prayed that thing back to life more times than i can count like i prayed prayed it back to life cars don't have a soul that didn't happen that didn't happen you cannot lay hands on lazarus the cheap well the jeep came back to life you take that up with god himself that jeep came back to life

when i prayed but you're right it's like it's embarrassing for a season and then you get through that season and she's not even that far i mean we're talking 7500 she's so close yeah she's 7 500 bucks out of 10 000 and just boom you're gonna be right there right we could see this but you're gonna have to change your focus on what what what do you believe in what do

you believe is going to take you to the next five years keeping this money in the account limping along with these old cars and and limping out of that or busting through kiddo our suggestion is bust through you you make a decision now what do you believe in and all of us let me tell you for a whole bunch of us a whole bunch of you listening that are out of debt

and have become everyday millionaires me and christy we've all driven that crappy car that was so crappy that you had to give it a name old blue bertha whatever her name was

i don't know why they get female names not the david nobody nobody names it george take it easy they always give them negative female names henrietta i don't know but you got to give them a name that you know and if you if you hadn't been through that then you don't know what that poor lady's facing but we're with you stephanie you can do this this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money dawn is in indianapolis hi dawn how are you i'm blessed dave thank you thank you how

can we help i called because my four children

just inherited a hundred and eighty seven thousand dollars each from a life insurance policy that i took out on their dad when i was married to him 13 years ago and i need to thank you dave because we feel so blessed today that i did what you said in the financial peace class that i took back then we put policies in place and their dad just died a month ago and now my kids have have this money in

hand from the life insurance company it's a lot of money per kid and we want to know how you would invite them what what should they do if they're only 25 years old 20 18 and 16 and you can only put like a

six thousand in a ross every year so i just we're here to ask you your advice and we want to just thank you you've blessed us i'm sorry for your loss all of you so it was your ex right yeah yeah we did divorce eight

years ago but 13 years ago when we were together we did this right that's what i thought i understood you to say okay well um i think different age kids will have different needs a 16 year old has a different need than a 30 year old the 30 year old we're just going to apply it on the baby steps wherever they are okay so if they have any debt

you applied to debt if they don't have if they got the only debt make sure the emergency fund's in place 15 of your income going towards retirement kids college is five and six says pay off the house so we roll that money up that list until it runs out

okay does that make sense yes yes

okay and really i would do that you said

16 was the youngest and there was an 18 25 maybe it was 25 20 18 and 16. what's the 20

year old the 20 year old what is he doing well yeah um we we don't know yet other than i've advised them that they need to set up i mean what's his life what's he doing with his life is he in school is he working he he spent the past year

and a half taking care of his sick dad so now he has to find his life he does have a two-year degree but yeah he doesn't he's been taking care of his dad while he was terminally ill so okay well i would put him in the 16 year old you know make sure they're reading through ken coleman's stuff on career and christy's stuff and you know just get get a handle on who

they are and so some of this money there's a probability will be used for education as a matter of fact i might park it all just to the side and something really simple for the two youngest ones until we ascertain what educational needs they have and so 16 year old says i want to go to college i want to go to a four-year school then we make sure that

the four-year school room board books tuition is under 187 000 for four years

otherwise you pick the wrong school sure

okay and yeah they're more community they're community college kids yeah and you know get the first two years out of the way and then go move and take two more years at the at the you know in state university and he'll have some money left over uh but i would just make sure we use this money to get them the education to start their lives the other older ones have already started their lives

and you just applied to the baby steps i think do you think see something else yeah i was just wondering dave when you're going through that type of a loss for these kids they've lost their dad is there any type of waiting period it may be different because they're kids or even if someone's older is there any kind of waiting periods like let's not decide to do anything with

it for a period until a little bit of the initial grieving is over where it's like i don't know i just can you think clearly when you lost your dad a month ago you know well exactly yeah i mean it's

it's good to park it for a little while yeah and let it sit the 16 and 18 year old are gonna have to let it sit anyway yeah because they're gonna have to make some decisions that are gonna take more than 30 seconds i mean you're gonna have to sit down and think about what you want to do what studies are involved in what it is you want to do where you're going to get your education

and then you map out what that's going to cost and begin to apply the 187 towards that as far as the baby steps goes yeah before you start paying off but i mean i i don't know that a 30 year old losing their dad can't uh decided to pay off their car

with this money 25's the oldest right dawn no yes she's 25 25 is the oldest okay so even that i'm like so is she married or kids or she is married and

they just had their first baby two weeks ago okay so that one's yeah they probably have a pretty traditional set of baby steps to walk right and i probably can't give them much advice because they're married right yeah yeah well it's completely up to

them but if if they were to call me and ask me what i would tell them to do would be to work up the baby steps in other words pay off your debts make sure you have an emergency fund in place make sure you get 15 going into retirement make sure the new baby has a college fund uh and you know then pay off your house do they own a house they do okay yeah and i suspect that those steps will use up 187.

okay what about so the 18 year old college is already taken care of so she wants to know what to do with it besides puts them in a roth how's her college she's her we've already fully funded that and she's got three years left it's fully funded

yeah i mean she she she drives back and forth to school it's a four-year school and she drives she lives at home with me still all right um you know that

you do not have to get fancy uh you know what i would do is keep it very simple and very calm until you get out of school uh and to christie's point let's not try to be professional investors at 18 years old when you just lost your dad so you don't you don't have to you haven't done something wrong if you don't suddenly become a highly seasoned uh professional investing person

you know so if if she wants to sit down in the next few weeks as her as girl's brains start to some of the fog of grief starts to clear if she wants to sit down with a smartvestor pro and begin to look at what she could do with investing that's fine but when she finishes school

16 year old finishes school with whatever money is invested whatever money is left over that's probably going to set up their adult life really well they might pay cash for a house in indianapolis and indianapolis for that if they're careful uh or they might you know move to another city or they might do a lot of different things it gives it gives them some flexibility it's not a millionaire it's 187

and that's a lot of money in one way but in another way you can kind of go like it's all over it's not over this just gives you a boost this is not the rocket it's a booster shot but for those for those younger ones especially the ones that don't own homes yet i mean you make a great point because that could buy them a house in cash out of

the gate they never have a mortgage they are completely set up for the rest of their life they never owe debt of any kind and that would drastically change their financial lives if they started that would be a great legacy for uh uh for her for their dad

you know that the dad literally with this life insurance might change the family tree um what what a cool you know what a cool side note to a to a horrible situation um

and that's what life insurance always is

it's always a cool side note to a horrible situation yeah you know uh we had a young lady out of

south carolina that we've videoed for some of the financial piece classes that um you know a brand new baby and

they're in their 20s and he just it was just a freak thing he's had a stroke or something and just died i mean but they had you know he had a bazillion dollars in life insurance and it um you know obviously it's a young mother that had lost her husband is horrible and this baby really never really knew his dad and um you know it's a horrible horrible thing

but the good side note is that she never has to work well i'm curious about this life insurance topic what do you think keeps people from getting it is it fear of talking about such a horrible thing like death is it just they're too busy they never get around to it like it's not a fun thing to talk about we can all acknowledge that but in a situation like

this it's one of those things that like you have to have it well it's in the category of

smart things to do that give you no immediate feedback yeah and you know if it's if i'm doing something retirement why don't people say for retirement won't they say for the kids college because it's 20 years off right and you know thank god it's friday oh god it's monday right you know and people have short-term vision windows and so they don't have any vision in other words

and where there is no vision that people perish and so when you look out in the future and you see you know this is what's coming and i got to get ready for it that's called maturity yeah but we have a vastly immature culture and so yeah you need wills you need life insurance you need retirement planning you need kids college but these delayed pleasure things are all

that they're all a sign of maturity toward amounts to that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the bm the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice christie wright ramsey personality is here to do this show because apparently i can't and so we're here she's here to co-host with me

and i'm going to stumble through and we're going to pull this off we're here to help you with your life and with your money it's what we do the phone number is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five steve's with us in nashville hey steve welcome to the ramsey show thank

you dave and thank you so very much for taking my call sir my pleasure how can i help and good evening also to christy thanks dave i am currently

me my wife my mother and my son are on

a level term insurance policy

you were talking about life insurance while ago and this fits into it but

um currently my

agent wants a couple of us to switch

over to a whole life i bet he does yeah yeah and

i wanted to ask you why first of all my

mother is she's she's insured permanently because of her age when i fixed her up on a level term she she went through the two-year probation time and she's fine my son is 30 years old

they want him to swap over and of course i'm 57 they want me to my wife is on

a 10-year level term her age she's

66 and um they're telling me it's going

to be very difficult for her to get rewritten when hers expires in five years how's your money situation i'm i'm okay

what's happening i'm certainly not self-insured today okay how you're in your 50s

how much nest egg do you have uh

about 50. okay and how much debt do you

have i do have some debt um

my home mostly it's about 60 owing

not much okay that's good and what are you doing towards retirement from this point forward i'm not at this point i've not

actually got a retirement plan in place okay well obviously you're gonna need to do that right okay right yes sir okay and uh does your wife work outside the home no sir she's disabled and what do you make around 50 a year okay so the purpose

of life insurance is to make sure

that the people left behind who are counting on the person's income are taken care of correct

if god forbid your wife were to pass away mathematically you would be just fine

right because you're not dependent upon her correct to financially move forward now i'm not talking about your heart wouldn't be broken i'm not talking about we wouldn't cry i'm not talking about those kinds of things okay i'm just saying mathematically and this is the this is the discussion of life insurance is the math part okay and so if we

cancel her life insurance when it

goes up it's not that big a deal

okay so i wouldn't continue to buy life insurance on her once it goes up so if it you know her term runs out or you said she had a 10-year term when that runs out i would just drop it you see why

yes sir okay now in your case

you're going to need life insurance to take care of her until you get this nest egg built you're 57

you're out of debt except your home time to get with saving some money investing some money pretty aggressively for the next uh 10 years or so right yes sir

and let's pretend that you had uh 300

000 in your investments and you get your house paid off 10 years from today and that's all very possible if you start concentrating would you agree with me agree okay and

you die she has three hundred thousand dollars a paid for house and no kids at home i think she'll be okay yes sir so we're

working towards self-insurance

and in the meantime we prop it up with life insurance you follow the concept yes sir see the only thing whole life is good for is to make sure your agent gets a commission through your whole life

that's what it's for it's the kind of encouragement yeah the and the the premiums are 10 times to 20 times more expensive for the same amount of life insurance okay but it's all based on the premise that you're not gonna do anything to get yourself ready to not need life insurance okay so we took care of you two now let's talk about mom how old's mom mom is about 85. and um

anybody depending on her income to eat no there's not okay so why is it she's got life insurance it's just back when i lost dad dave

he did not have insurance and it was a little difficult on the family to take care of all the arrangements now does your mom have any money she's she's uh not really she got twenty thousand dollars no sure she's on a fixed income okay

so she doesn't have any lives with she lives with my fam not me but with my other family okay so we need enough to bury her yes sir but that's all we really need that's what i have on her okay so you have a very small policy on her and it's term it is term dave uh and and what we started with her remember she has some uh some uh underlying issues

and they wanted to go with the two-year probation i started with her and and that elapsed and she's he told me just the other day i met with him he said she's insured for life because i'm assuming because of her age

that's strange okay well it's probably not that expensive a policy though because it's not covering by 10 or 20 000 bucks right it's really not dave so it's not an issue so we got three of the four done now your son is 30 and what he needs to do is work the baby steps get out of debt have an emergency fund and 20 years from today you know not

need insurance because he paid off his house in 15 years and because he's got 700 800 000 in his 401k and his kids are grown and gone 20 years from today he needs a 20-year level term and he doesn't need to use your guy because your guy's a whole life guy you guys are paying too much for the stinking term but it's probably too expensive for you to move now

but it's not for your son he needs to go to zanderinsurance.com and get a quote and he'll probably find his term insurance is half what you guys are paying for it really yeah i i'm guessing i'm not allowed to tell you who he's insured i don't care who's he with farm bureau okay farm bureau is a wonderful company for

car insurance and homeowners insurance yes their term prices are absolutely ludicrous really

yeah but they're great people i got friends that work there i mean i really like the company but you don't buy life insurance there it's not they're really good though for car insurance terms their car insurance service i've been hit by people that had farm bureau and i get they they take care of the car i mean they're just they're wonderful you know and um i i'm i'm a fan of the

company but don't buy term there no it's a bad idea don't buy any life insurance there it's just too expensive because they're they're not really designed to be in that business that's like something they added on to their catalog later and they thought well we make a lot of money doing this and your guy's not a bad guy he's just trained by those whole life guys and

so he just doesn't know what the flippy's doing and that's in this particular subject so you got to stay away from people pushing cash value nobody believes in this whole life stuff except people that sell it everybody else in the financial world knows and understands and says no way this is the ramsey show

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chrissy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five five years ago this week she launched a book that was number one called business boutique equipping women to make money doing what they love the follow-up to that is the business boutique academy that helps you uh build your

business build your side hustle start a business uh and it's for equipping women to make money doing what they love uh we only allow you to join the academy

twice a year it's closed enrollment because we want everybody to be in groups that have this same experience as they go through so enrollment is open right now for a limited time until thursday evening this coming thursday april the 22nd so don't miss your opportunity to get in on the training you can join at uh join the academy at ramseysolutions.com academy now the other thing we want you to know is we've got the ramsey solutions website up now so ramsey solutions.com is now

your destination site for all things ramsey and that includes all things christy wright john deloney rachel cruz anthony o'neal and whoever i'm leaving

ken coleman i can't remember who i'm here for you yeah that's it that's good you're going to carry this i knew you were good-looking site the site is much more it's much easier to navigate and find what you're looking for you don't have to go on a wild goose chase all the time a ton of great resources a ton of tools there a ton of free articles on just about every subject where

it comes to transforming your life go to ramseysolutions.com and check out the new site it has been launched for about a month and it is all the feedback all the feedback has been positive no one went where'd daveramsey.com go because nobody cared but me except you

where'd my name go where's my name uh not really all right alicia's in decatur indiana hi alicia how are you hi dave hi christy hi um

thanks for taking my call my husband and i are having kind of a dilemma on what to do with an

inherited ira a little back story is we've been date-ish for quite a while and at the beginning of november we decided that we were going to go full in and you know pay off all of our debt so we had some more freedom well since then we paid off 28 000 worth of debt good and the only thing um well the only

thing we have left is my student loan debt good so

it's um right around 40 41 000

and how much was the inherited ira eighty-eight thousand is what it is yes pay off your student loan out of that you're gonna have to you're gonna have to cash out the inherited ira over the period of the next few years anyway that's the law and you're gonna pay taxes on it as it comes out no penalties and you might as well pay your taxes now and be debt-free yeah it's just a security blanket for me i guess it's not a security blanket you have a student loan debt yeah that's true you have a security

blanket with an axe hanging over your head that's true it probably makes sense so

it's not very secure you know no no no and you know be debt-free listen here's the thing when you got all geared up and you paid off 28 000 since november the reason you did that was you came to believe that the shortest distance between where you are and wealth and financial stability is to get your butt out of debt right

true nothing's changed yeah

just stay the course take the hit

because not because it's not a hit it's not a hit it's an advancement when you see it as a hit you feel like you're losing money you're taking that money and you're applying it to the debt this is a move forward so we gotta we gotta reframe that in your mind when you see that as a hit it feels like it feels hard to do let me give you let me give you an example on this you took the hit when you took out the student loan when you pay it off you admit it

yeah when you buy a car that's 30 000 when you buy a car that's 30 000 and it goes down to 20 000 and you sell it people say oh i took the hit no you you already got the hit you already lost ten thousand dollars when you sell the car you just admit it

yeah that's all it is it doesn't change it doesn't change the reality it just makes you face the emotions of this student loan was a stupid butt idea well it's okay we've all done stupid butt stuff i made a living doing it kiddo

all right you're gonna be all right you're doing good i'm proud of you you know the interesting terms to use security blanket made me think of that call in the last hour where they they had 7 500 had a debt of 10 000 but didn't want to paid off because it was that same concept of like this makes me feel safe because i have this money here it's an illusion it's an illusion

and it's like the idea that that is keeping you safe and it's somehow going to be a move backwards to pay off the debt no no that is the move forward and you know what that that does bring up a thing too this idea

that the enemy of the best

is not the worst yeah the enemy the best is okay kind of in the middle if you can just sit in the ugly middle and be comfortable you got no reason to bust into excellence you've got no reason to bust into the x and it's familiar it makes me think of in financial peace university which i when i took this years ago you talk about the credit cards like oh no not

this last one i'm so attached to it and there's an emotional attachment we have these ideas in our head that even if they're not accurate mathematically at all about what it's going to do for us financially we get attached oh i've got gotta hang on to the savings even though i have all this debt and i'm paying all this interest because it makes me feel safe that's not that's not a reality me going broke

i had an advantage

i didn't have a choice yeah yeah you were forced i'm sitting there in the poop and i gotta go i gotta get up out of this because it wasn't comfortable right but if you're sitting there and you kind of feel comfortable it gives you this that that's where the enemy of the best is not the worst i was at the worst yeah and i knew it and

i didn't want to be there anymore i was motivated to get my butt out of there right you know but when you're everything just kind of okay you know i got my little ten thousand dollars and i got my little eighty eight thousand dollars and i'm okay and and that your your brain just whines like that mine does it too on other things yeah it's like you know i'm not fat enough that i'm gonna die

so i don't do anything about my fat you know you know what i mean but but if the doc came in and went you're morbidly obese you're about to die of a heart attack fat man then i would go do something about it sure but my brain is like my level of fat i'm kind of in the middle you know until until i hit covet and then

i just got big as a dadgum house and i had to go so i've lost 37 pounds y'all shut up all right but uh because i needed to because i was gonna turn in the michelin man but um but the you know but you know it's the same thing isn't it any area of our life if it's if you can hit that that mediocre middle

that's a danger zone you're comfortable it's a danger zone and it gives you the illusion that you're doing better than you are because you've got this security blanket whatever your security blanket is it's like i'm okay i'm doing okay you don't have that motivation that you're talking about like things are bad i have to change something what did you oh your quote i love so much you can wander into debt

you cannot wander out yeah you got to get fired up if you're going to do something you got to get your payments on anything if you're going to transform your life it's going to involve the most painful of all emotions and that's embracing change stepping face long

into change intentionally i'm going to

step up i'm going to bust into this thing and i don't care if it's you know your marriage is just kind of instead of having an awesome marriage you know you gotta you gotta go something's gotta give i gotta change something you know it's like man i tell you the kids man you know you kids are out of control when you go that's it that's it you know my mama used to say

the worm has turned i don't even know what that meant except the beatings were about to begin you know but the uh uh turned out it's shakespeare who knew mom might knew shakespeare but um but you know all that was was she had reached the end of her rope you know yeah the little grand babies the little girls denises and rachel's little girls are over at the house of

the night and they're jumping bed to bed to bed to bed and i'm trying to get them in bed and sharon's got the boys in other room putting them down i'm sitting in the rocking chair and i'm just girls sit down girls lay down girls stop it and they're just getting more and more wound up and one of them says papa dave's getting frustrated yeah it's coming mama mama agreed

she said when mama gets frustrated it ain't good so that means my daughter's doing a good job i like that that's right so i said girls you're gonna have to lay down but i mean the worm has turned you have to have this moment in your life where you say enough i've had it and sometimes being

in the comfortable middle doesn't make you do that that's true and you have to manufacture that in your emotions and just decide

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so thanks for joining us america christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today i'm dave ramsey your host this is the ramsey show we talk about everything having to do with your life back in the day it was me getting you out of debt which we still will help you do but the whole purpose of that is for you to have a better life christy talks about having a better life by having more confidence

and avoiding fear and having balance in your life and speaks all over america to companies and churches and writes a uh devotional that just came out that it was a best-selling book which we didn't know devotionals could be best sellers i was something we learned something that's good that's cool you proved it well it was the first one we get to put it out as a company which was awesome

so we proved the idea well and yeah and also i mean i didn't know there was like a devotional bestseller list but there is so i just learned something but it's cool because you made it and um it's it's a great great uh read and uh 40 days to get back to you yep and uh you've gone through it a couple times with folks on instagram are

you gonna do that again well i'm actually in the middle of it right now because and this is interesting i don't know if we've talked about this dave but i chose the number 40 because it's a biblical number sure and it's a great uh non-intimidating length of time for someone to go through but the one of the instances of 40 in the bible was the 40 days that jesus appeared to people

after his resurrection so starting we're in that period following easter that's what we're doing so i started on monday after easter on day one and we're tracking so today is day 15 i believe okay day 15 or 16 and so i'm walking

through it right now actually so it's amazing how quickly these easter or christmas gets in your rear view mirror was only 15 days ago i know i know and then mother's day is coming up so it's kind of nice in between eastern mother's day to walk through this women's devotional that i've written and um and it's been cool we've been you're doing it on instagram yeah okay christy be right be right yeah just going live

once a week and walking through kind of having a discussion um you know and just seeking god because the whole premise was can you imagine how people after jesus rose how once the word had spread that he was appearing on the earth how people were looking for him right they're like i mean i've heard he's walking around and appearing but they must have been really looking for him with a new level of intensity

and so that's the heart behind this is let's look for god for the next 40 days together through this pretty cool all right carol is with us in los angeles hi carol welcome to the ramsay show hi dave how you doing great how can we help okay so um i spent the past 10 years taking care of my mom and she passed away last year and i was

wondering if i should sell her house and buy a condo in a neighboring state

wow what an emotional thing

you've been in this home and so you've been this angel a blessing to her for a decade of your

life yeah i i didn't work or anything i took

care of her i take it you're single yes i am and what's the house worth a house is worth i have to have it appraised because of probate but it's right now the low end and what the neighbors going it's like 850 000. yeah okay and you're the sole heir

i assume yes i am okay uh and

how are the rest of your finances what are you gonna do for a career now i don't know i was thinking of maybe

doing um things i've kind of dreamed about working on since i was a kid like writing and then i got into um

coding when i was in college and that was kind of my day job before i started taking care of my mom so i thought i would do like some independent projects like um

making video games and things like that

my coding so when did she pass she

passed away last april actually so what have you been eating on for the last year what are you using for money um my best friend she um has been paying me to take care of her kids to watch them because you know they have to stay home because of copay so you've had you've had a nanny or a governor's gig yeah okay all right

well um

it sounds to me like you're someone that's given your life away for a while and it's time for you to live a part of this next section for you yeah what are you thinking christie yeah

the thing that the thing that jumped out to me even in the question and i don't you know as far as the house i don't i don't know but i think i think what you need right now carol is just community around you just to some people to help you rediscover uh

who you are and what you want to do in this new season i would definitely love for you to stay on the phone we can send you a copy of my devotional that's what we talked about 40 days to get back to you to figure out who you are in this new season and and even um i'd love to invite you to be a part of the academy where

we can kind of put our arms around you as you discover maybe there is something you can do on your own it's a side business or small business or freelance whether it's coding or right or something else writing yeah we can we can walk with you in this next new season i'd love i'd love to do that so we can definitely um give you those things to help

you in this transition but as far as the house i mean i want to uh i don't know simultaneously applaud you for how you've served your mom and now how you're serving this family um and at the same time for doing that

i i want to encourage you in this next you did the right thing in this next season i don't want you to define yourself by how you've given yourself away okay

in the next season i want you to do some things for carol it's your turn

and that's not selfish it's just that you put some of your dreams desires wishes on the shelf for other people

and i don't want you to by default sign

up for another season of that yeah it's time for you and your mom would want you to go on and do the next thing yeah because she she did say that like

towards she was like you know maybe it would be better if she wasn't here and i could well we don't want him i told her not to say yeah don't say that that's not what we're talking about but i mean but we are saying that you know you've had a year since her passing to to grieve and to reset your mind uh yes i'm selling this house not necessarily

because i'm selling the house because it represents the past that's good yeah i grew up in this house yeah it's all about the past and the past is in the past it has passed and so let's you know let's say all right let's pretend we're 18 years old and the world is a white board and we have a million dollars what could we do anything we want

it

right i mean there's nobody telling us what to do there's nobody guiding us we can do anything we want to do because that's exactly where you are only you're not 18. yeah and that can be

intimidating but it can also be exciting it should be it should be both yeah

this kind of a journey is exhilarating because it's parts of it are unknown but yeah i'm selling it i'm moving as i

start to uh figure out what my next chapter is i'll know where to buy in the meantime i might just put this money in the bank and i might go i don't know uh whatever it is you've always wanted to do backpack the appalachian trail i don't know rent travel yeah i don't have any idea but i mean whatever it is your your thing is you've had

you got a pretty good number of things on the dusty shelf get them off and blow the dust off of them and sell the house and let's get going and just i i just want to encourage you to do that and encourage you to say that that does not make you a bad person you've been a saint you've been an angel and the proper way to

uh uh to to continue to serve is to find

your best self in this next phase and that's not necessarily to give yourself away yeah uh so hang on we'll have kelly pick up we're gonna send you a copy of the christie's devotional and going to give her business boutique academy yeah yeah so we're going to sign you up for both and it's on open enrollment right now and so we'll sign you up for both and get you going and it's our gift to you

to help you live this next phase yep this next season for you so um but again this has nothing to do with the value of the house the location of the house it's not a financial decision it's a an emotional a fresh start fresh start decision yeah that's a good one it's the white board man what a cool situation though yeah yeah i mean how many people would go i have no nothing binding me

i don't have anything holding me back i can i don't she's not married she doesn't have kids she doesn't have a job that's weighing her down she doesn't have and she's got a million dollars and that's where you go what do you want to do and that can be one of the hardest questions to answer what do you want intimidating is crowd yeah what do you want to do

you can do anything yeah it's going to take some time for you to figure that out i think yeah go ahead and send her proximity principle for by ken coleman too let's see if we can i want to interfere in our life here in the best way in the best way a papa dave kind of way [Laughter] this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today we're answering your questions about your life and your money open phone's at triple eight eight two five five two two five james is in evansville indiana hi james how are you hi dave pretty good good what's up

i have a college planning question

uh my wife and i have five young daughters ages 10 to 13 months and

we have uh five 529 plans

and are contributing the max for the

tax incentive of 2500

we're now in a point in our life where we could be applying more but what does that look like for

having five kids

and hearing about eight years

having one go off to college yeah well

about five years no no no eight years i'm not

yeah okay all right

um no it's more like thirteen i mean you've got it yeah oh there it is ten years i'm sorry i wrote i couldn't try and look at these numbers i wrote it down i couldn't find them uh all right so

you know what what it amounts to is is you need to be putting in more for the 10 year old than you do the 13 month old because the 13 month old's got a lot of time to grow in that account

and so um who have you got your 529s with you got an advisor yes yes i haven't

we have an advisor we've got about 17 000 that it's grown right now for that ten-year-old no no no ten-year-old okay what i would do is sit down with the advisor and make sure that the money is invested in the 529 in good growth stock mutual funds that have a good track record first if it is then i would ask them to

add to tell you okay in order for the 18

the 10 year old in eight years to have x number of dollars what have we got to add to that account in order for the next one to add you know in so many years what have we got to add to that account and it might end up that you're putting i'll just make up numbers you might end up putting three thousand dollars or four thousand dollars in the ten year

olds and you might end up putting 500 in the 13 month old and they'll end up

with the same amount

okay because you got started later on the 10 year old yeah and so you didn't have as many years for the money to grow so uh it's um

it's kind of like life uh equal

is not fair

yeah they've already been told that yeah equals not fair fair is not equal

and so uh you know if you've got a special needs little brother little sister we're gonna give more money and make sure that that child is taken care of equal is not fair fair is not equal

is there fair is what you have at the county

is there a magic sauce for

or about what should be put in uh

to be able to fully fund them uh

well what you need to do is just determine what your goal is uh your goal amount and you say okay as an example they're gonna go to in-state schools they're in evansville indiana they're going to go to the university of indiana okay our indiana university all right and you call them and go what's it cost to go there and uh what are your projections on your tuition uh eight years from today

and they tell you it's going to take 150 000 to go there with room and board four years eight years from now and uh for four years and i'm making up numbers i don't know okay today today tuition is about ten thousand dollars plus room and board per year for an in-state school average

nationally and so you're probably going to find somewhere around the ten thousand dollar number per year so that's 40 000 plus if

they're gonna stay in a dorm and eat

okay so i'm gonna guess and say they can go for a hundred grand eight years from now that's maybe 125 but you know you can actually get the number from the university bother them a little bit or wherever you think you want them to go to school and then you can back into the actual goal with your advisor they can put it into a financial calculator and go okay in order to do that

you need to save twenty six hundred and forty two dollars a month or twenty six hundred forty two dollars a year they can tell you exactly what you need to do in order to get there once you have that goal and you have the time period it's a financial calculation at that point it's a math it's a math formula that goes into a financial calculator and you can back into

it so um but you need a target not just so far your target has been we want to save for college it was very vague but if you really want

to do it perfectly and you want to know when you're done this is how we did it okay what we did was we said we wanted i

want a hundred thousand dollars per kid and i backed it out for a four-year-old and i said in order to do that today i need x in there and i just i had made some money that year and i just put x in there and then i was done that account was over i never added to it again never had to i put enough in there that it was gonna grow for the four-year-old in 14 years to this much so when daniel ramsey got ready to go to school there was a hundred thousand in there for him you know and it was ready to go and we just picked out a number but uh you need if you want to be really nerdy about it and i do recommend that if you know what your goal is you can back into your numbers exactly i've got a question about the scholarship side of things because i know with 529's like it specifically for school if you save all this money and then your kids are just get a ton of scholarships what do they do with that money 100 of what they get in scholarships can be removed tax-free know what now if they get if you got a hundred thousand dollars and then you get forty thousand dollars in scholarships you can take forty thousand dollars out and then another product oh really wow yeah you just had to prove that you just have to prove the scholarships if you're audited i didn't know that so you can remove it and you've had tax-free growth on your money in a 529 wow that's cool that's wonderful because it incentivizes the child to get scholarships and that type of thing no they got money free money totally okay great yeah i mean they go buy a house with it when they get out of college i didn't realize that's a pretty cool thing you're setting up millionaire stuff here yeah setting your kid up to be a millionaire before they're 30.

because if they come out of school with a hundred thousand bucks or 150 000 bucks and no student loan debt and they go get a job making 70 or whatever they're making these days right doing whatever yeah oh my gosh i mean you know 22 years old you're making that and you've got zero debt and you already have a paid for house ding ding you're a millionaire by the time you're 30.

doing dave better than i deserve what's up

so i have a dilemma i'm currently in denver colorado and i'm working at a great job i make about 90 000 a year it's a contract position and they told me already that they'd like to extend it at the beginning of the new year for another year but my last job has now invited me to

come back and join them for a substantial raise they'd like to offer me sixty 160 dollars to move to orlando florida and um work there for eight months until

the end of the year and then the position will be over with my question is should i stay in colorado knowing that i have a good paying job and it'll last a good long while or should i go to florida for the additional money which is roughly about 3 000 i'm sorry three times my take-home pay each month here in colorado well no it's not three times nine eight times three is not 160.

what do you do for a living so yeah

with my um it's about nine thousand dollars take-home pay for the job in orlando florida and about five thousand three hundred dollars take home pay for the job in denver okay that's not even double it's not five times as much okay you tell me you don't do math for a living okay what do you do i don't do math really i do construction thank god okay what kind of construction are you doing i do 5g fiber optic construction good for you okay i get it and so um how old are you

i'm 24 years old what do you want to be doing when you're 34 i want to be running my own telecommunications business which one of these two decisions takes you their best

i think they both i think they both take each one takes you their best

the kind of job that i'm at nah

because your business is so you you are a contract to contract to contract anyway you guys jump from job to job anyway in your world don't you yes sir all right jump drop the job and take the money unless you just don't like orlando i would be it's an adventure dude you're 24 go make some money that's my opinion yeah you're young do it while you can this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five

two two five matthew starts off this hour in indianapolis hi matthew how are you i'm doing well dave

how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

so i'm 22 years old i make about 80 000

a year before bonuses i have 20 000

in cash and then about 50 000 i have in etfs and mutuals i'm getting ready to buy my first house right now i know the housing market is crazy my main question is is what my plan to do is take 25 000 out from my investment account

put that towards a down payment do a 15-year mortgage on a 225 000 house is that a smart thing to do i could take out more but i still want to keep that emergency fund but the area on man is projected about 10 increase in home values in the next year dude you're a stud you're 22 and you're making 80.

yes sir what do you do i'm a systems engineer good for you man you're killing it and you're single correct are you uh dating someone seriously no sir i'm not okay all right

um the other question i do have is i

am i have a guaranteed at least ten thousand dollar bonus next year and then more than likely another additional 10 to 15 on top of that so i should be slightly over 100 000 for next year and following years as well phenomenal okay

so uh i would just adjust your plan

slightly um because i know from the data

that we have having studied 10 167 millionaires

that the typical millionaire has

two primary components to their first million to five million dollar net worth and you should be there by the time you're 30 with the trek you're on okay and if you want to get there the shortest way here's what the data tells us a paid for house and loading up the 401k

correct i do max out my 401k um company

good matches five percent i put five percent in and then invest the rest into etfs and mutuals good so what that tells me is the paid for house is the next thing on the equation agreed agreed which means i'm keeping only the emergency fund i'm dumping the entire etf onto this onto this thing as my down payment to thereby have less debt to reduce and then i'm going to throw bonuses

and money i would have been throwing in the etfs above the fully funded 401k at this mortgage dude your house is paid for by the time you're 25 26 years old you got it and you're rolling into

a house at that point that's probably worth 500 and um you know and let's just go ahead and run the math out on your 401k to you know for what eight years and i think you're a millionaire got it that's what i'm hearing i'm doing this in my head pretty quick but i think i'm pretty close but uh and and here's the thing the other thing that's gonna happen is uh you're you statistically are very likely

during this eight year period of time to meet and marry the love of your life at which point you will discover you have bought the wrong house

right new plan new house and so that will adjust our little plan

upset the apple cart but that's okay it's worth it's worth the cost brother

you'll still you're still gonna get there because you got a plan but here's the thing the two data points are full 401k paid for house and if you're always aiming back at those at the earliest possible age you're going to build the greatest possible amount of wealth awesome that's for your first five million dollars worth of uh wealth and that's what a you know you know we call them everyday millionaires or baby step millionaires

because they follow the baby steps and i've met three out here in the lobby today that followed the baby steps over the last decade to 15 years and been listening to this show one guy said he'd been listening to the show 20 years yeah you know and um he started doing

this stuff and he just you know got out of debt which gave him the ability to invest and pay off his home yeah we were talking earlier about changing your family tree it's a compounding effect not just financially financially mathematically it's a compounding effect in the decision making you make different decisions two and three and four steps later because of those first decisions so i i love to see how that can have a ripple effect for

the rest of your life and i'm starting to do some writing on this millionaire stuff because i'm starting to see some nuances with our baby step millionaire community um and that's what i'm calling it for right now i may change the name of it but i mean that's that's i'm starting to and one thing i've noticed is is that the millionaire that sometimes what keeps people off

the track from being a millionaire is they want to try to be a billionaire and a bill billionaires are a billion is a thousand million and uh in the forbes 400 i i got to look it up fresh it's been a year since i've looked it up i need to look it up again but in the forbes 400 it was that almost all the 400 are billionaires now

the 400 wealthiest people in america it used to be three-quarters of them more but i think they just about all are now and like 70 of them are first-generation

billionaires but the way you become a billionaire is different okay explain that than the way you become a millionaire because the typical millionaire the one to five million first thing that happens to billionaires is obviously first they become a millionaire right before they become billionaires right right but the difference from jumping from five million to a thousand million is a big jump yeah

okay so you get that first five million the way we're talking about here walking the baby steps that's a baby step millionaire but very few but billionaires didn't use their 401k and they paid for a house to become a billionaire right in almost every case they um

started a business and took it public

or didn't but they uh the business

uh somehow there was a business leverage angle okay you know uh you know uh to where you know oprah owns this massive media empire and that's what made her a billionaire it wasn't getting paid to do the oprah show right she she used her entrepreneurial skills behind the scenes to build and she's a billionaire uh or uh the kathy family you know chick-fil-a yep kathy passed away

but he was a billionaire and the kids are uh but that's the value of chick-fil-a yeah it gives them that the business value uh the hobby lobby family the green family uh again it was the value of that it wasn't working a job and loading money in the 401k they got them there uh so they worked the job and load the 401k and along the way they became millionaires

but then the way they make this huge leap but the difference but people have in their mind when they say wealthy what billionaires do you know private jets right expensive cars six houses millionaires don't have any of that millionaires don't have private jets and expensive cars and four houses yeah they don't billionaires do right but if you try to jump from where you are to billionaire you make a lot of mistakes on get rich quick yeah yeah

because you're you're skipping you you got gotta do the tortoise first yeah yeah and win the race to get in that one to five and then that positions you to do some of these other things yeah and and you can go big from there it's interesting but uh uh you know it it but if you try to if you think of wealthy as a billionaire then it's unattainable number one number two

you start doing stupid stuff to try to get there before you do the basics yeah so do the baby step millionaire first then start thinking about billionaire level stuff

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

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christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five our famous ten dollar sale is back including her book number one bestseller business boutique equipping women to make money doing what they love we've had over 40 best-selling books here at ramsey including a few of mine and that includes the total money makeover and they're 10 each now

this is a hardback book this is sixty percent off you can't get this kind of deal anywhere else you wanna get the total money makeover for ten dollars a guy here bought a case a while ago yeah i saw that i mean yeah ten dollars a piece my gosh i mean think about that that's a nice high quality nice gift to give a friend so give them christy's book rachel's books uh anthony's books uh ken coleman deloney's quick read is out

there for ten dollars on anxiety uh it's all there and you can get it all at ramseysolutions.com and our online store and that's not all we got a gift for you as well if you enter to win our ramsey cash giveaway we're giving away 500 cash every week and a grand prize of five thousand dollars cash saying you can enter up to once a day for extra chances to win

so make sure make sure you go to ramseysolutions.com giveaway and enter once a day there's no purchase necessary must be 18 or older or you can text cash to 33789 text cash

to 33789 to enter our

giveaway now open phones at triple eight

eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll talk about your life your money it is a free call thanks for joining us

our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from amanda in colorado she writes i make 100 000

a year and i'm on baby step 2 with 55 000 in debt i want to switch careers and become a financial coach my plan was to keep my current job until i'm debt free but i've been offered a position working 15 hours a week and earning 40 000 a year it would be an excellent financial base while building my coaching business should i wait until i'm out of baby step two or make this change now i'm curious your thoughts on this one because you you're in baby step two we got fifty five thousand dollars of debt making a hundred thousand dollars a year which is awesome that's a good shovel to get to knock that out but wants to start a financial coaching business well even if she didn't have the debt let's just pretend she know the debt okay she makes a hundred thousand dollars a year and she wants to drop to 40.

nothing smells as bad as a broke salesman yeah you're they feel that desperation except a financial counselor

financial coach that's broke yeah that's that's probably not that's probably oxymoronic almost so yeah uh yeah what you want to do is start your financial coaching business as a side hustle get it growing and let's get some income coming in now if you told me you were making uh 30 or 40 on your side hustle financial coaching business and you wanted to drop to 40 now we've got a total of 80 and we're dropping from 100 down to 80 hoping we can make up the other 20.

right i'm making that number up but it could be 45 but you need to have and it's not 10 yeah you don't want i mean if you're making 40 on your site on your little part-time thing and you do make 10 that's 50. you cut your income in half yeah the boat's not close enough the dock anytime you're going to jump uh uh unless you get fired from an

income to a to a self-employed income go ahead

and get the side hustle up because i tell you make different decisions when you're not broke yeah when you're running a business and you're broke and you have to make money by friday to eat it changes your decision-making paradigm and it damages it it sucks the joy out of it too the fun for why you started it it takes the fun out of it and to your point

the customers feel it because you're desperate they feel that but you don't have to you can still start your side financial coaching business you don't have to have just this job you just find the hours in different times to be able to do that build it up on the side absolutely absolutely open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five dalton is in oklahoma

city hi dalton how are you i'm good it's

awesome to talk to you mr ramsey you too sir what's up uh so i got a question i'm in baby step two um i've got some student loan debt and then truck debt i actually just listed my truck last night i'm going to end up selling it and i just want to know what kind of car

i need to be looking for after i can sell it and what price range how much student loan debt on it uh 46. what do you owe on your truck

uh 24 and i kelly blue booked it for

32 to between 32 000 35 000.

wow so you put on the market for how much uh 34. nice truck and

yeah yeah it's a bad purchase but um

but it's a sweet truck yeah okay

but i want to get rid of it and how old are you yeah student loan as quick as possible 27 and what do you make did you say uh 86

that's for you good for you all right

and how much student loan debt again forty six thousand okay you told me this but i'm trying to wrap my brain around all these different numbers okay so uh if you sell the truck for 30 and you got six thousand dollars in your pocket and you bought a six thousand dollar car you'd have no car payments and you'd be only attacking your student loan debt right yes sir so yeah your budget ought to be

what cash you get in your hand from from

the truck sale net of uh net of your debt

so you pay cash for a little get around car and um you know four five six thousand or whatever it is you end up with right or a little bit less but i mean really if you buy a thousand dollar car and put 4 000 towards the debt that doesn't fix anything you're 86 now without the truck payments what fixes it you're shedding yourself of a 600 truck payment right yes so yeah yeah that was kind of my question if i could if i could sell it for like the 32 or 33

and if i could make you know eight or nine off of that that's fine anywhere in there you know because here's the thing okay let's say you buy a six thousand dollar truck and you put three thousand dollars towards it or you buy a nine thousand dollar truck and you'll put anything towards it you haven't changed your student loan equation that much what changed the equation was getting rid of

the truck what changed the equation was you make 86 000 and you are now game on you are you are a man with a plan that's what's changing the equation you're the secret sauce so the amount that you use from the truck to put towards the student loans is not what's going to fix this it's getting rid of the truck that fixes it and the fact that you're freaking paying attention now

and don't have any truck payments okay you see what i'm saying mathematically that's the case yep yep that was kind of my thinking was yeah so whatever you want whatever you make on the truck you can spend up to that on a car but not a dime more

gotcha or less you could spend 2 000 less it wouldn't be a bad exercise to you know just as a matter of self discipline because here's what's going to happen you're going to be 100 debt free in

less in about a year okay yeah

and then you're going to be saving up for your emergency fund and then you're going to save up to move up in truck because you should you don't need to be driving a 6 000 truck making 80 grand 90 grand and no debt you probably can move up in truck then and pay cash so you're gonna move back up later so this is a temporary move it's probably a two to three year move is all so you're fine really good job dude

good job

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christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five mitchell is up next in lincoln nebraska hi mitchell welcome to the ramsay show hi dave

thanks for having me absolutely how can we help well

i'm i'm in a bit of a predicament

it's bro i've got it upon myself of course but let me tell you about myself i'm 27 years old in 2014 i got an associate's degree and in two weeks i'll have a bachelor's of architecture good for you i'll have a private oh thank you i have a private pilot's license that's a hundred hours and um forty five thousand dollars in student loans about fifteen thousand dollars cash on hand twenty five thousand in an ira

and i pay about 600 per month in rent um so i'm switch i'm considering switching careers to aviation because i'm finding i'm just not very happy in architecture

it's going to take a lot of money to switch and time and i'm just not really sure if it's the smartest thing but i think maybe i should choose happiness all through money what do you think well i don't think they're exclusive from each other

that's a that's a that's the dangerous assumption that somehow happiness has to be associated with being broke

um happiness has to be associated with not making money okay so i'm going to choose option c

none of the above let's find a way to

live a great life and make a lot of money doing it and that that you know that'll make you happy money won't make you happy but um you know this i i often hear people

say things like well i'm gonna go to work for this uh thing that has meaning in my life but they don't pay anything and i'm like well i got a lot of meaning in my life and i make a lot of money so because i help a lot of people so they're not mutually exclusive you can do both as a matter of fact there should be a tie and a capitalistic economy to serving an income and so um

i think you back up pan back a little bit more and say okay what are the steps to get you where you want to be when you're 34 years old or 37 years old a

decade from today what have you got to do to get where you want to go and what's the shortest path to get where you want to go and if

you're going to be an architect and you're going to be miserable well that's not that's not that options off the table i'm curious why are you miserable like what's what's what did you what got you into it that was true that you loved it or wanted to do it what has changed that you no longer love it what's going on well i guess i thought it was a logical continuation for my studies and i've always i thought like it was a

strong suit for me you know i was just playing with my strengths and decided that was a good field but maybe perhaps my interactions with other people is the most important thing as to why i'm choosing another field i don't even really have work experience i'm mostly going off of my educational experiences your interactions with other people turned you off on architecture what does that mean i don't know it's just a very egotistical field maybe

not really and you could you could decide that it's not not really you don't have to be that i work with architects every week and i don't have any i don't deal with any of them that have ego problems i wouldn't put up with them having an

ego problem but i mean i'm building two buildings right now we're working with architectural firm and there's five different architects involved in that and they're all just really nice people so if you let me ask you this mitchell if you take the people out of it and your ideas about is your professor's a jerk is that what you meant i mean oh i got him okay okay all right okay the actual act of architecture what you

do okay what you have learned to do in school and what you would be doing hypothetically do you like doing that type of work

i don't think i do anymore okay i think

i'd rather fly a plane well yeah it's addicting

the problem with aviation is it's a drug

uh ask any pilot they'll i mean i i've been told a thousand times don't get your pilot's license ramsey because you're gonna get sucked in it's like golf i mean you're gonna get sucked into the vortex and you can't get out um so yeah i mean it's

the pipe i mean pilots just live to land and take off i mean it's just like i think and so um i don't doubt that i i

i

i'm okay if you want to go be a pilot i'm not okay if you want to go in a hundred thousand dollars in debt to do that and i'm not okay if you say that means i'm going to be broke when i'm 37 and that's call and call that happy that's just not true okay so you need a different track on your pilot career that cause you the cause that causes you to not be broke as a pilot pilots can make good money and do make good money um i mean private jet pilots as an

example you know they make a hundred and a half on average and that you know a lot of architects don't make that so you can get there but

you know it's just a matter what what you know the hours logging and the uh you know the lessons and your license now but i assume your license on turboprop right oh no i just have a very basic um ptl yeah yeah okay and so you got a lot of work to do to make any money because nobody pays anybody to fly what you're licensed to fly right yeah it'll take at least two years probably 50 grand yeah okay here's here's what i would tell you to do i think christy

that we heard i i i'm gonna

i i don't agree with the conclusion you came to i i think you had a jerk professor or two and it made your life miserable and so every time you picked up uh uh uh worked you know opened up the cad drawing to work on this thing you hated architecture because the jerk that you were dealing with or two or three jerks you were dealing with or

the way some of the students acted or whatever and it and and christy challenged you on actually doing the work i think because there's correlations between pilot work you know the the amount of technical detail that you have to do and the amount of technical detail you're a technical detail guy because both of these things have that yes okay and you said it's the strength of yours

and it is i think there's a way you can make a living doing architecture while you do your pilot work i don't think you have to abandon architecture and go live on poverty while you do your pilot work i think you go and get your architecture's license get a job being an architect and then work on your hours on the weekends work on your hours at night you're going to pay to do

this it's going to take a while and you take that two years that you're talking about and you've got to fund it right and the way to fund it is be an architect well and just in a situation where you're not dealing with jerks yes it reframes architecture for you gives you an opportunity to have a good experience in architecture and actually see what that could be like maybe

you do like it you rediscover it also helps you resist the urge to just be scattered and change your mind every two years i just don't want you changing your mind every two years like stick with this let's give it a chance and then if you want to keep doing the pilot thing on the side that's great and you can switch gears when you can pay for

it you've got a little bit of money but i just got this sense that it's like well i don't like this anymore i want to do that so i don't like this morning i want to do no we if we're going to make progress we need to stick with something so give this a chance let's let's wipe a clean slate from the bad professor give it a chance make some money

and then like you said just you can continue to explore the pilot thing on the side as well and move forward if you want to if you know i had this friend that was married to a guy who was an absolute twerp and he was a jerk i mean he mistreated her in every possible way and you know slept around all over the place had affairs all

this stuff and finally she had wised up and dumped the jerk right because he was he was a nightmare and she went through this period of time where all men are evil right yeah that's that that's that wound that trauma's speaking yeah i'm gonna protect myself you know and but all men aren't evil right just because he was a jerk right and so it's the same exact thing

you know you you got traumatized right by this this process and it you

know and it's it's not that marriage is bad it's not that men are bad you just had a bad one right it's not that architecture is bad you just had a bad one right right and so um you know i i think you need to give this a chance i'm not saying when you're 37 you won't be a pilot i'm saying that's okay to be a pilot

have that as the goal but let's let's use a different path to get there that involves architecture giving it a second chance here's the thing if then you walk away from the architecture after having done it four or five years you'll never look back you'll never regret it if you do all this work and then you never go do it you may have some regrets yeah you may have good point man i'm gonna miss that that's a good point

so i want you to give her give her a little run here won't kill you and uh you're not gonna you know you gotta do something because you gotta fund this pilot's thing so that's a good way to do it this is the ramsey shop

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our scripture today isaiah 6 8 then i heard the voice of the lord saying whom shall i send and who will go for us and i said here i am send me ralph waldo emerson said don't

go where the path may lead go instead where there is no path and leave a trail christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five two bob's in sacramento hey bob welcome to the ramsey show hi there uh scenario is

i've done everything wrong according to you dave thank you for your honesty bob i'm sorry my wife and i have a mortgage on our home of about

550 000 we also lost the home

in august to the wildfires oh

no i'm so sorry i'm sorry we had just refinanced from a 3.5

to a 2.75 in may

i got another call from the mortgage company in november and said would you like to lower that to 2.25

and i said can you finance air and they

said yes so i took the 2.25 loan

i have enough capital that i could pay off the loan the only problem is the price of two befores has doubled and with the insurance settlement i don't know how much home i can build if i pay off the loan so i need

for your wise advice so what will they

give you for the burned house uh as much as

900 and 2 000 okay now what is the lot

worth uh 400 000.

okay all right do you and do you get the lot i mean okay yeah you get you get 902 from the mortgage company you pay off 550 and you get the lot but 902

is the absolute max with everything

yeah furnishings and everything uh no

that's just the house director okay that would be all the extra add-ons that the state of california has added such as sprinklers

solar and an electric vehicle water

charging station and any cost overruns

above the policy

okay so will they write you a check

for can you talk them up or your in your attorney get them to give you a check for 900 000 you pay and you pay off the mortgage out of that i'm afraid not i have the cash on hand that i could pay it no that's not what i'm asking i'm trying to figure out how much money you can get out of this freaking insurance company and walk away uh probably

hmm i'm not sure

let's make up another number okay i'm gonna call it 800.

okay okay for example purposes you got to pay off a 550 000 mortgage and so that leaves you

uh 250 000

and you have a 400 000 lot that you sell for 400 000 scrape it and sell it okay

now you've got 650 000 in your pocket

plus the money that you already told me you had to pay off the house with

you've got other capital right correct yes and it amounts to how much uh approximately

400 000. okay so

now you got a million dollars to buy a house with and i would buy a used house i wouldn't try to build right now building my wife and i are still debating about the politics of california we'd like to find somewhat someplace a little more sane yeah well million dollars will buy a lot more other places in sacramento sacramento is a wonderful town i like sacramento but

it is an expensive real estate market yes um and if you move it's not it's not it's not orange county uh silicon valley expensive but it's expensive and so uh it is california expensive you know so i mean if you said we wanted to move to xy state now a million dollars going to buy a lot more and this is your escape route

you don't build you don't rebuild here

have you got any wise words that i could use to convince my better half about leaving california or about rebuilding both number one rebuilding's not going to make sense because it's the worst possible time to buy two befores and uh steel and copper

and plywood there's a shortage on all of

it right now and it's all doubled and in some cases tripled and so you're gonna have trouble you're gonna have a lot of trouble putting back a house even the size that you had before you're gonna come out hundreds of thousands of dollars ahead not building okay because of the because of building cost right now yes you know it's uh if you want to build a house it's okay right now

but this is you know but but if you can avoid building one right now i would i would wait a year or maybe two if you really really really want to build and there's nothing tying you to this lot scrape it and sell it okay now you got now you got a million dollars piled up and then you can buy in sacramento or you can leave california that's a separate decision than whether to build on

this lot yes two different decisions you can make

both of them you can make a decision to leave california or stay in california but i'm scraping this lot and selling it for 400 grand or 500 grand somebody'll probably buy it because there's a shortage and um you know you may get great price on a silly thing and get a and you know and

here's the thing other thing that's going through my head and i need to say it out loud one of the top 10 things that'll put you in the hospital is losing a home to a fire it is highly emotional it's like a death yes

i mean i've gone through the stages dave yeah you go through the grieving stages as if you you know you know and so it's you know bankruptcy divorce house fire loss of a child

these are the top ten things you know you get two or three of them in one year you're in the hospital i mean he'll take you out it's a it's highly traumatic and what i'm trying to do also is give your emotions some uh margin rebuilding a house building a

house is freaking traumatic yes let's not add trauma on trauma you know you building a house is for people that are in a real healthy situation and really excited about doing it and want to do it you're you're you're you're building out of necessity

or some kind of a grasping thing going on here and it's uh you know if your marriage isn't going well and you want a divorce build a house you know that's that's that's the old you know that's the truth because it'll it's like you know some people are so dumb they're like our marriage isn't going good let's have kids maybe that'll fix it you know that's a dumb butt idea

you know they do that that'll break you real fast that'll do it that'll end everything so i think i'm just trying to love you and say man if i were you i'd want to curl up somewhere in a snuggie and just get warm you know you've been out in the cold it's you're you're you're raw you know and i just man i want to if i was

you that's what i'd want to do may i throw something else into the mix quickly my wife and i are here in maryland taking care of her father who's in stage four kidney failure currently three percent kidney function oh my gosh

so you know the line god keep

or god only gives you as much as you can handle my line is he has us confused with someone else he took you right up to the line anyway yeah so it you know it might be that you don't need to make this decision right now well trust me the insurance company and the mortgage company are hounding us have have you done your

repairs yet yeah and okay well go ahead and turn it back on them and go just write us a check and we'll call it a day

so you know they have written the one check and the mortgage company has it but the mortgage companies paid off uh well they are holding the money in

trust okay well tell the tell the uh insurance company if they that you want to just settle and if you don't have an attorney you may need one because you may need a buffer between you and these characters right now they're settling a whole bunch of claims over there and i don't want you to get stuck yeah so you may need some representation especially while you're dealing with your father-in-law's illness you're in a point of weakness

there to negotiate so yeah you do have your you do have yourself full bob i'm sorry wow that puts us hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

this is james childs producer of the ramsay show did you know the ramsay show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today number one best-selling author and best-selling author many times over we're here to answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five but that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and you are here also

to announce uh a new um offering today

a new thing you did a new thing yes a new thingy so thanks for having me on sure um and yeah i came out with my new wallets uh a few

months ago and the colors were black and camel anyone wondering but i was like i want to design a fun wall that you can use the cache envelope system but yet as a woman it's cute and you get to carry it so uh we did a special it's a limited edition so we only we only ordered a pretty small amount honestly so you'll have to get it soon because it probably will sell out in the next day or two um for mother's day but a blush metallic a

metallic blush sounds like a punk rock band which is metallic look at it on camera i mean it's just the most beautiful thing ever it's it's my favorite i mean it's i was like okay i need i have every color but i was like no this is i want to use this but what's also great about these wallets is we partnered with join which is an incredible organization they make authentic leather goods and they're incredible they take people

in parts of india um

that need a job to literally feed their family and get off the street and get off the street and get out of you know other sectors of life that are just terrible and so they give them these women and men jobs to to create this so um they're the ones that actually make it and and so it's amazing so it comes from india and then every wallet comes with a card of

the person that made it so it's handmade authentic leather uh and it's just beautiful there's ten card slots in here so for gift cards like qvc or something oh man

this is correct no but then it has like the envelope systems there and in it yeah and you know a pocket for change zipper gold accents it's just beautiful so we did it for mother's day so if you need a gift for your mom you can get the new wallet metallic blush i'm

telling you that's a great name well we did thank you i didn't name the color but that's the name of the color but i we you know we pulled my tribe and

people that i've bought the wallet okay if you want another color because that's what it keeps saying another color and it was like pink light pink blush pink pink pink pink pink we want pink we want pink and so the metallic pink is there it is it's beautiful yes yes yes yes so again you go to ramsay solutions.com to order it we have a limited uh quantity

and then it's going to be gone forever but it's funny so it does it has the whole envelope system built in 10 debit card slots built in coin pouch wristlet the whole thing and uh our product guys have worked very very hard on the development of this thing for the other two colors to start with and then adding this color to it and um you know uh

the truth is i had absolutely nothing to do with any of this rachel had a little bit to do with the design speaking into it and speak you know so it would do what she wanted it to do but um so ramsay solutions.com

and just check out uh products or go to the store slash store and you can get the new metallic blush

wallet and in the inside the envelopes it's like this mauve color in there okay with the plaid oh yeah it's important this is very pretty all the ladies will appreciate it all the ladies will appreciate it i have no idea i would imagine you're right but yeah yeah so check it out dave ramseysolutions.com store the metallic brush blush uh rachel criswell and we really you know you guys know out

there the supply chains are all screwed up shipping lanes are all screwed up getting stuff here from another country and getting stuff here from north carolina is dad gum near impossible these days so uh you know we really did end up with a limited quantity because of everything so screwed up and so it it that's not right and we did it because we didn't and i mean yeah

the logistics of it but also it's a color that's not gonna just be consistent like throughout the years we decided let's just do a fun new color but then you're gonna not gonna like it anymore no not the blush no oh yeah it's done after this after this oh so it's like beanie babies you're gonna run it it's like you're going to run out the princess diana i'm kidding

we went to all this trouble just for a few hundred few thousand two thousand two thousand two thousand two thousand oh my god but it but but it's already telling like yesterday they sent a text out to people that signed up for the early one yeah i mean it's still no it's not gone but it's not gone but it's gonna go i keep getting updated numbers and it's fun it's great hopefully people can handle their money better

you know there we go with a metallic blush wallet open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money and your metallic blush wallets the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five i cannot believe we're doing this and they're gonna run out and never get more after you've made a hot product that just runs against my whole way of marketing things

you should always sell until nobody wants to buy we have the camel in the black color i know i know i just didn't know we were doing that i learned something new every day live here come to the meetings so that's true probably probably wasn't invited but there you go so uh all right open phones again at triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll

we will talk about your life and your money the other thing you can do with with uh is you can check out rachel cruz's show it is uh of course on facebook and youtube uh live and uh the podcast is huge

uh tons of people attending that and be sure to check that out um at rachelcrews.com or ramseysolutions.com and you can find any of our personalities anything they are doing and plug into the the podcast and the youtube live streams

and the whole bit so the 14 day money finder is out there uh as well sign up for this two week challenge on rachelcrews.com the average person is finding an extra two thousand dollars with these 14 day money finder which means they get something new every day to look for money that's right yes when i created this i wanted quick tips because i just know how crazy my life is

so i was like if i'm going to do something i kind of need a something that can be quick so you can do it you know under 15 minutes or less most of these and so it's everything from as easy as signing into your checking account online which some people don't even know their password to it because they don't do it two things like insurance rates all of

it but yeah it's it's been a great i've had it for a few years now and and people i mean it works because again it's helping you get intentional with your money and you get an email once a day with an idea exactly to save money 100 yeah find money okay all right so and you sign up for that at rachelcruze.com as well so be sure and check that out again

the number here to join us is triple eight eight two five five two two five now guys i wanted to stop a second sidestep rachel this time last year most people were at home yeah yes quarantining uh

or sheltering or whatever word we used

for being trapped in your house and um

a lot of people were very afraid

about their money a lot of lost jobs

they were worried about if they were going to lose their job they were worried about the debt that they have they were worried about their emergency fund and a lot of people said you know what i'm not i'm never going to be here again and then some of you had that feeling but you never did anything about it and now you're kind of just back to normal doing stupid butt stuff again that was your wake-up call to do

the ramsey stuff to do the baby steps to get the total money makeover book to get in ramsey plus for god's sakes to get your blush wallet whatever it takes for you to change your life and never be back in that situation again you need to have a never again moment from covid where you say never again is my family going to be vulnerable financially because i didn't do the stuff to get out of debt and build the emergency fund [Music]

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thank you for joining us america open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today ashley's in west palm beach california

hi ashley how are you west palm beach

david florida florida i would think yeah i saw that on the screen and read it like i was anchorman or something okay so i knew better as i was reading it how can we help uh well um i am currently in baby step

two and i have a about ten thousand dollars left on a student loan however it's currently in part of the class action lawsuit so i'm not required to make any payments on it um so i've been using what i would have paid on that towards the rest of my snowball it's not currently accruing any interest anything like that i'm just not sure if i should pay it off what is the what's the nature of the class action lawsuit uh it was for false advertising for job

placement rates um and things like that so it was for like a technical school technical school still open no that

they're closed they went broke shut down well your student your student loan is your student loan is supposed to be forgiven under federal guidelines in that situation anyway well i was

i had already graduated from the school doesn't matter that happened so i wasn't currently really yeah doesn't matter if the school closed due to if the school went bankrupt it's an indication that they were running a scam and the fed one of the federal it's one of the few types of student loan forgiveness that actually does occur you can you actually get a high rate of these that are forgiven

so you need to get in touch with the feds and work that through you said it's a ten thousand dollar balance and it's your only debt left uh it's why i have two left i have about eight thousand left on a credit card but i've been using the student loan payments to pay down the credit card faster since i've not been required to pay payments on the student loan yeah okay well yeah what

i do is knock the credit card out and then i would save up ten thousand dollars extra above your normal emergency fund of three to six months so that if this all falls apart you can write a check and be out of debt that's what i thought you'd say but i just i needed to hear it from you yeah but in the meantime you need to investigate

the federal uh you know get on the websites with the feds because i think you're going to get this whole thing forgiven anyway regardless of the class action okay now do you think they would forgive and reimburse forever anything that i've paid that's my concern no it's just afraid no the fed the feds don't guarantee that schools don't go broke but they do forgive federally insured student loans on schools that close okay regardless of your career

if you're a current student or not yes yeah okay double check it jump in on

the student loan websites and uh uh james that site that you sent me the other day that had the different types on it do you remember what it was off the top of your head that'll touch my head but i can find it insanity okay yeah well she'll be going by then but anyway yeah it's so but there there's a site we were just looking at the other day

and uh you know there's two or three types of student loan forgiveness that actually do occur that's all yeah that's what i was about to say because usually it's one of those impossible things that it's a dream that people have that's going to happen and it usually doesn't it's called that but the pslf is the one that sucks that everybody thinks is going to happen and nobody gets that doesn't doesn't really occur

and so the public stu public service student loan forgiveness after 10 years and that's what so many people are betting the farm on and they're getting screwed and the current numbers like we just pulled this up the other day off this site that we were talking about here um the uh

227 000 people have applied for that

and only 3 000 have gotten it so it's less it's about one percent

now the type that she has or a closed school discharge it would be 100 or a discharge due to death or a discharge due to disability or there's an another one for teachers and sometimes nurses that do the inner city the or the rural underserved areas they're called that's a five-year plan and those students there's a high rate of the forgiveness on those but the public service student loan forgiveness one is the ones that joke yep so it's educationdata.org

say it again educationdata.org so if

you're still there uh it's educationdata.org

educationdata.org or data.org and um yeah that's where you can start to find out this this deal but the the if you went to and a lot of them were very few very few times just like a four-year university club right but there were a lot of these uh vo-tech things a truck driving school a computer programming school or whatever and you go in there and they run

the student that basically they're running a scam to you know get people signed student loans they cash in all the money they take off and the school closes how does that happen often enough that they decided to put it in the dead that's true yeah too often yeah yeah it's not say everybody in that space is slimy but there was enough slime in that space that the discharge due to school closing is a thing yeah that's a thing

and you don't have to do it through a class action so jump in there and learn about it and you can get the details and get moving on it sam is in atlanta hi sam welcome to the ramsey show hey thanks

dave what's up hey rachel hey dave uh thanks for tuning in call this afternoon um kinda i had a quick question so

uh my wife and i uh we're in i guess starting out baby step uh maybe step six now so we've

paid off any debts we had and got three six months of expenses and um are able to invest 15 of our

income we are set to receive about 180

000 in a inheritance in the form of a

mutual fund and our current mortgage is about 140

000. and i was just curious what

will maybe be the most a smart

thing to do with that inheritance would it be to pay off the mortgage uh immediately with it or keep it invested and continue for that to grow in the mutual fund and that's just continue to attack the mortgage sam yeah you guys are the no income yeah well you're in a great position right now because you are literally going to get be able to cash out mutual funds

and have enough to pay off your mortgage with 40 000 left over so if i woke up in your shoes and that was given to me i would pay off the house that day and be on my way to baby step 7

and continue on sam it's interesting that you said you know we're going to walk the baby steps until you got a lump sum and then you questioned it yeah yep isn't that weird i mean that's

kind of weird if you think about it but that's what it does it made you question the whole the whole theory because if if the other way if not paying it off and you and use it to invest then we would have put that in the baby steps right we would have said never pay off your house always keep your money invested right and what we found though is is that all

the millionaires that we've studied and all the tens of thousands of people we've walked with over all these 30 years that have built wealth none of them

said when interviewed oh i got rich because i kept i always borrowed all i could on my house and kept the money invested in mutual funds none of them said that none not one

you know instead i hear all the time we paid off our house and that was the biggest breakthrough because when the house was paid off man we took all those house payments we started investing those and we ended up with a million dollars so fast it was blinding and uh i and a paid for house in the mix and so you end up you know with a net worth of one to two million dollars fairly quickly yeah

and it's a good question sam because i do i understand how you got there because you're thinking okay suddenly math starts to come into play and you're thinking okay can i kind of outsmart this and invest that because i'm going to make more off the interest versus what you know i mean yeah you started but if you were going to pay it off gradually it would never would have come up right right

but the fact that there's something weird the way our brains trigger yes we'll have to ask deloney how that works because i don't there's something about the way our brains you know our brains well and and i would say sam too i i mean i would feel this way right you're working hard you guys are on baby step six yeah you've done a great job you sound like a fairly young man

you know you're not you know from just the tone of your voice so i'm like there's almost this emotion you have to catch up to for being handed 180 000 dollars like

you know you because you hardly don't feel worthy i almost wish yeah you know i wish i could hear more of his story because i'm like i bet they worked hard to you know you're just used to just cranking it out and and then you're given it it almost feels too good to be true or something it's like whoa it can't be this easy did i do something wrong or something like

it can't be this easy and and it's like your emotions haven't caught up to the reality of what's happening financially for you guys and what a blessing i mean what a gift and whoever left you that in the inheritance what a way to pass on their legacy to do something like this with this money i think it's just tremendous sam it's awesome pay off your house dude use

the house payment to become wealthy change your family tree i'm so proud for you you've done really good you've done a great job this is the ramsey show

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thanks for joining us america rachel cruz ramsey personality my daughter number one best-selling author many times over is my co-host today taking your questions about your life and about your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five nico is with us from

estonia hi nico how are you oh hello thank you how

are you sir better than i deserve what part of estonia are you in part two it's a very small city although the second biggest city in estonia rachel and i and our family visited talon a few years ago or t it's talon is that how you pronounce it yes yeah beautiful beautiful city how can we help i saw estonia and i said not many people can probably say i have been to your country

how can we help you sir me and my fiance

are moving to us to indiana notre dame for our phd degrees both in the same department we are debt-free we do not have any debt we have or our moving costs covered and we both have fellowship the thing is we will have some salary left over every month and we have no idea about american economics or how can we invest or what we should do with it should we go ahead let's let me say that we'll have about 2 000 left each month on the side after eating

providing for shelter from everything that and what should we do should we plan to buy a house maybe next year or should we invest in a different way i would love to listen to your advice wow what do you what's your phd you're studying bioengineering i am building synthetic hearts wow wow so will you be when you finish

the phd will you be returning or will you be staying in the us i haven't made up my mind yet

but i think i will stay a little bit longer too for postdoc okay

well south bend is a beautiful town been there a lot of times notre dame's a fabulous campus so you you've signed up for the a world-class ride there the um

if you're going to be there five years or longer buying a home is not a bad idea

if you're not going to be there five years or longer it's questionable

all right i was thinking the money i'm going to pay for rent which is about 1200 a month i can just pay it for mortgage and even if i don't stay there at the end i can sell the house and get some of those money back instead of well you won't necessarily unless you stay five years we don't know if the typically the house will not go up enough in value

and you've got to make sure you can get the house sold houses you know right now houses are selling like crazy the real estate market's quite hot but a few years ago you couldn't give one away so um you know you don't want to get into a home if you're not going to be there five years because your trade out for rent is not one for one

because you can turn around and lose money on the house and make you wish you had rented uh if you're not gonna if you're only gonna be there in the house two or three years or something and the south bend market's a solid market there's nothing wrong with it i you know it's not a bad place to own real estate but all real estate needs to be purchased with a five year window or longer other than that

i would just pile up the cash because nico a pile of cash just gives you lots of options and then as you decide where you're gonna stay and where you're gonna be that pile of cash can be applied wherever you are and that that's true in any economy yeah absolutely would you would you recommend him investing if he's not gonna be here five years or longer yeah

if you're gonna be if you want to play if you want to do like an index fund and park some of that money that's fine uh but uh the big thing the money's gonna give you that's gonna be more than anything else is just the flexibility which uh to move to another city if you're going to stay in the u.s to move back to estonia if you're going back

you know apollo cash just gives you options and sometimes those options are more valuable than what you might have made on an investment yeah it's good and so uh certainly real estate will be a mistake if you're only going to be there a couple years um most of the time i mean there's a few times you get out hold but i just i love real estate but it's not a short term play

and it's not a play it's not a trade-off for rent everybody's got this thing about you know versus rent it it really doesn't work out that way except in the long haul short range it does not work out that way jordan's in portland oregon hi jordan welcome to the ramsey show what's up hey dave rachel thank you both for taking the time to talk to me today sure

uh so long story short my wife and i

we just got married in august of last year i've been living out here for the past three years uh hometown is originally colorado where i own a rental property the rental property right now is under contract to be sold for 6.85 original listing price is 501 so all things considered i think is a great return on investment good night but um yeah real estate in

denver's been blowing up recently so uh what would is my wife and i we both

have some debt right now outside of the mortgage it's truck payments and credit card debt and some school and uh what we want to do is just move them forward from here we want to make be good stewards of our finances and make sure we're doing what's right and doing the best with these proceeds from the sale so i was looking for some guidance from you both today see what any suggestions

you might have in mind so how much cash will you get out of the home from what you owe what you made i mean obviously you guys made a ton on it right right and after what i calculated

after closing costs yeah commissions and all that and taxes i think we'll be walked stepping away at about 225 okay and then uh how much debt do you guys have i know you said you have truck credit card all of that how much is all that that was a boneheaded move after listening to to dave recently uh i i kind of got over my head and bought the truck and was not a whole lot down i've still got about 40 000 left on the truck uh 15.

63 000 okay all right

awesome well so um yeah jordan i mean

when you get that 225 yeah you can write a check for 63 000 be completely out of debt put a chunk of it away and for an emergency fund so you and your wife sit down and figure out okay how much is our expenses per month and multiply that by three four five or six you have three to six months worth of expenses saved for that emergency fund

and then from there i mean and you you're gonna be able to do a lot of this in like one day when you get the check from that house which is so fun uh and you're gonna be yeah i mean and then yeah start investing some of it into retirement do you guys own a home right now did you say in portland no we're uh we're renting right now complex do

you guys want to buy

a home that's what we like yeah that's our dream one of these days yeah that's awesome well after that emergency fund i mean you could take some of that for a down payment if you guys i would use the rest of it for the down payment yeah throw it over debt-free with an emergency fund and whatever's left is your down payment so if i remember you're saying three to six months in an emergency fund and going off of what our monthly expenses look like right now that's about 24 000

and then you're gonna have 130 000 bucks

to put down on the house right i mean that's that's all that gets a lot of house and i don't i mean that that's the

decision i think i've i've been we've been going back and forth on is do we want to use all of it for the down payment on the house or would it make sense to only maybe use a chunk of it and invest the rest or you know you know well again our experience from the last 30 years working with people who become millionaires is they get their house paid off yeah

and the first step to getting your house paid off is a big hairy down payment not investing the money we just do not meet very many wealthy people in the millionaire range the one to five million dollar net worth the first time people become millionaires that did it by keeping their house leveraged and investing the money almost all of them say we got the house paid off as quickly as

we could and we started investing 15 percent of our household income into retirement and then when the house got paid off we started investing even more and they end up with a million to a million and a half in in their 401ks and then their retirement plans and a paid four five six seven hundred thousand dollar house and that's how they end up with their million dollar net worth

and it it's a very stable way of doing it it's the baby steps that we teach from the total money makeover book and i would say jordan look to see the size of house you guys want you may you may be thinking that's a huge down payment that's a that's a lot of house well then don't get that much house and then that down payment will take maybe 50 of

the mortgage and then from there once all that cash is gone start investing go back to your baby steps four five and six so the pass won't be completely paid off you'll be investing before that absolutely i'll send you a copy of the book the total money makeover that has the baby steps on steroids and it shows you every detail and if you'll follow that you'll be wealthy you'll be a baby steps millionaire what's going to happen awesome jordan great job

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ramsey personality rachel cruz number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today here on the ramsey show open phones at 825-522

our question today comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsay to get the best possible deal today's question comes from sandra in virginia i just completed baby step two

and am able to cash flow college tuition for my two teenage children this has drastically slowed down my ability to save for a fully funded emergency fund both kids work and apply for scholarships should my priority be to pay their tuition for three more years or build my emergency fund uh

sandra b to build your emergency fund so your kids they're working scholarships all that's amazing and that should all be applied to their college but hopefully they're going to a school they can afford while they're doing all of that and so it sounds you know i know as a parent it feels like okay i'm being a bad parent because i'm putting myself first i should be able to help them

because i have the ability to but you have to be able to help yourself first you need this solid financial foundation under you to make sure that if anything happens in your life you have the cash to cover it and so that emergency fund is is crucial and then saving for retirement next and then i'll be putting 15 of my income into retirement and then after that's completed as you're doing that

then you can help with kids college so um again parents it goes against their natural

um way of thinking with parenting of no no i'm supposed to help my kids and and i do want you to help your kids but you're not a bad parent if you don't help your kid with college so taking care of you first and foremost financially is the priority yeah and um

when the oxygen masks drop they don't say put your oxygen mesh on your kid first they said put the oxygen mask on yourself first then you are able because you can breathe and you haven't passed out to take care of your children and so retirement unless you die

is going to occur emergencies

are going to occur period college

may or may not occur now they're in school so it is occurring but you know we just have to find a way to do this we have to find a way to push it through pull this off and and you guys are going to scratch around i think they need to have applied for more scholarships i think they applied for three and they quit and they need to do 300.

yeah and i think they work but i don't think they work enough i worked 40 to 60 hours a week when i was in school most people work while they're in college most people in america work while

they're in college it's highly unusual for someone to not work while they're in school i mean i don't know where we got this idea that people don't have to work while they're good now these kids are working they're working they're working well choice too i'm just saying what are you doing for money are you making stinking minimum wage or you're doing something that's actually profitable yep because

you know flopping whoppers is tough to pay tuition with right at minimum wage it's just really hard to do so you need to do something where you actually make some money whether it's an entrepreneurial endeavor or whether it's hard work that other people don't want to do like cutting grass delivering pizzas you know you can make a lot more money doing some things than you can doing other things

when you for college work absolutely and so we need to address that we need to address the scholarships and how many we need to address where they're going to school is it affordable and if you address all of those things i think you guys can pull this off but it is not healthy to um

go with the natural instinct of i'll take care of my children first which you should i mean you should you know in you know we most of us would say we would jump in front of a bullet for our kids most of us would say we would dive in front of a car and push them out of the way for our kids all of that is true

but that's a life or death situation uh you know we would feed our children before we fed ourselves that's a life or death situation this is financial yeah and uh and so it's it goes against your natural instinct but it's also the right way the wise way to do it i am suggesting you help with college but only after the emergency fund's in place and 15 is going into retirement as rachel said

so guys what we figured out a few years ago is there's 73 000 things coming at you that wants your money and then when you get some money because you went to work or because you get a lump sum or because you sold your rental property or whatever it is you get some money you go i don't know which of these 73 000 do i do how do

i do this and people become overwhelmed and they do nothing and then they end up doing something stupid with the money instead of actually being intentional and having a plan so 20 some odd years ago almost 30 years

ago coaching families we determined

that you needed a very specific clear path and we developed that over many years

in actual practice it was not theoretical meaning tens of thousands of families that we walked with to develop these highly tuned baby steps

and baby step one comes

before baby step two

it's not an accident that two is after one and that three is after two and that five is after four and that six is after five and that four

is before five these are not accidents

this is a highly developed

highly uh processed

series of concepts that are have proven

to tens of millions of families in america now to be the shortest distance between where you are in wealth now you can go make up your own freaking plan but your plan got you where you are

and so you need to decide you know you

don't need to call rachel and anthony and christy and deloney and me and coleman and ask us if baby step three should be after baby step two it is

that's why we called it three

and you don't need to change it it you know it's a pretty and it doesn't really change there's

it is the shortest method to get there

shut up and do it okay tell me this do you feel like you've heard more of this happening in

the last five years the last hour

the last few years versus over the last 20 because i feel like more than ever today the culture it's a it's it's a little bit infested with yeah but this is my snowflake i'm a snowflake i'm unique you're unique but the law of gravity applies to all snowflakes i know but i'm just saying it did you see it culturally like do you think that that like do

you have do you see this resistance or have you always seen it no it's always it's always been it's a natural because it's your unique i mean people say yes because what happens is the very confusion of the 73 000 things you can do with money yeah yeah you have to bring it back to the table continually until you actually believe that there is

logic and data

and decades and tens of millions of

lives that have done it the right way and gotten the positive result until you submit yourself to the plan

you know it's like hiring a personal trainer and he says well you probably need to eat less yeah but i'm not going to do that i just want to do the workout you know well no you got to eat less fat boy you know that's what i'm looking in the mirror i got a keg he's got a six-pack why am i arguing with the six-pack boy about nutrition

when i'm fat why am i arguing with him he told me what to do he i hired him i paid him to tell me what to do and then i've got a better plan and then i look at my belly and go well how's that a better plan you know this is what ought to go through people's head yeah it's true it's true or the trainer says

do more lunges i'm like i don't want to do those i'm not doing it i don't like leg days

i don't like leg day i don't think i want to do that yeah i think i'm just going to pick out i'm going to do my version of your plan that works because my version has got me where i am it's the dumbest thing ever well it's not the dumbest thing ever it's because i know why because it feels good in the moment to do what you feel like is safe to do

and stepping outside of what you feel like is safe and doing a plan that makes you uncomfortable because you're having to change that's why you know oh yeah it's comfort zone crap yeah it is exactly what it is but you have to decide you know you have to decide did your comfort zone get you to where you are yes do you like where you are no then get out of your comfort zone

you look great though i've lost 37 pounds because i looked in the mirror and i went fat boy you gotta do something about that that's shape talk i did i did look at my

shoulders alone it caused me to it caused me to lose weight though i mean you just you know your self-awareness is part of the process right oh my gosh this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host thank you for joining us rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author multiple times is my co-host today we're here to answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five travis is in boston to start off this hour hi travis how are you hi dave i'm good how you doing better than i deserve how can

we help well thank you for having me uh i discovered you about two and a half years ago right before becoming a father and you have completely changed my life and how i handle economics and the reason for my call today is because uh we currently live in a house and we have about forty five thousand dollars left in this mortgage uh no other debt uh but we're entertaining

the idea of buying a much bigger house with an in-law apartment with a that would allow mining laws to move and stay with us for 650 000

which would obviously restart my mortgage clock and the idea of being uh debt free before the age of 35 sounds very appealing but i also think that new big house

would improve our quality of life and actually make us happy as well and if you will approve of the

new house would you recommend selling or renting my current house okay well i would always sell your house

currently because you don't have the money to pay cash for the new one and so the only way we buy rentals is with cash and uh so we wouldn't keep that property unless you were able to pay cash for your home because in effect you've borrowed money for the rental otherwise so no we're going to sell it for sure what's the home you're living in worth uh about 425 000

okay all right and so we're

talking about only a 250 000

mortgage right if i sell this house yes

yes well that that's no longer in question if you're going to do what we tell you to do so i would tell you to sell the house so and then you're going to put it on as short a term as you can 15 years or less what's your household income uh 160 thousand dollars a hundred and

what 160 160 okay good

how old are you uh 32 sir you've done

very well ron good job man i'm sorry travis very well done very well done thank you i've been listening to you non-stop we've been maxing out 401ks maxing out rough iras and uh so we have a second baby coming in september so we're getting ready for it thank you awesome congratulations

so your in-laws are how old uh my laws

are in their 60s and they currently live in greece where both my wife and i my wife and i are from

okay they would move here no income they would pretty much be staying with us and be babysitters in a sense

[Music] well i'm not a big fan in general of mother-in-law and father-in-law apartments because it ends up with a weird house later uh when all of this doesn't work out but this is a very unusual situation a you've got the cultural differences between uh greece and the

u.s to where it would be more normal to have all the family in one house in the us we tend to be more individualistic um and that's just a cultural difference neither is right or wrong it's just a different way of looking at things and doing things uh then the the but i you know i looked at a house the other day had a mother-in-law apartment in

it that was a dadgum house you know attached to the other house and it was just like it made a weird house is what it did and you know and we don't we weren't moving anybody in with us so we don't want that you know so it just made a it made you have a hard property to sell later um so your configuration of the house needs to be fairly normal uh

and it can't be some bizarre mother-in-law apartment thing off the side because you're gonna make it very limited market when you get ready to sell it someday it is exactly what you're describing actually it is very bizarre we actually know the current owners we've known them for a very long time and the in-law apartment is 1900 square feet it's massive wow okay it's bigger than our current house

the in-law part of the in-law aspect is bigger than the actual house we live in right now and the main thing is about 3 000 square feet yeah i think you're gonna have trouble selling that house later very likely very likely but if you're in it for 10 15 years do you matter i mean you know if you if it's not if it's a weird house when

you move in guess what when you move out it's still going to be a weird house yeah but it is weirdness worth it though for your quality of life considering yeah you have parents coming immigrating in and i i think i i i you know in your situation i i

don't want to make a case for them not to move in with you i think moving in with you and moving to a bigger house is probably better idea i'm not sure the one you're looking at is the one because i'm going to do this in a more uh in a way that the house can be utilized more in a more traditional way when you leave

and that'll give you a much broader market the house will do better you have a higher likelihood of getting it sold you're not gonna get stuck with this white elephant which is what these things are when you build these bizarre properties and so uh you can do it if you want to do it but the downside is you're gonna have trouble getting out of it later but i would say travis to your original question though sell the current house you're in that's okay you don't wait until it's paid

that's all okay uh but the house itself the actual you know the actual house uh you know be careful with that part of it because that's where you can get burned in this whole thing because um i mean there's going to be a day when you blink twice and mom and dad are in heaven and you've got this house with this empty wing you know and it just goes fast unless life goes fast and and so that's what happens and then um you know

you end up these people that were selling this property we were looking at that's what happened to them and you know the house is eight years old and they built it specifically for her mother and you know and and it's useless it's useless because it's just so bizarre for any for a traditional family using it right without a mother-in-law i mean so i'm thinking about what am

i going to put over there in that in that thing often you know it just it made me not want to do the deal so um uh and that was three weeks ago so

but anyway you know so you can you can you can decide but that that's uh i i think the ideas that you're playing with all work but just be careful with where you put the final product uh in terms of you don't want to get stuck with something later but uh you got a great heart and obviously you've done a great job say awesome travis i mean you're not even you're 33 somebody said yeah killing it so just killing so very well done so very well done yeah and

here's the thing too the the to the rest of you you know you think about uh uh latino countries you know uh

often you know families all in one house that's not unusual but again anglos very seldom mm-hmm

very seldom uh we'll do just i mean we buy the house next door for mom right but we don't put them in our house as often not as often as other cultures do yeah and so that's where this thing called personal finance comes into play it is personal because this is a family with a a grecian heritage and so that plays into the decision making and and

it should yeah absolutely absolutely that's a good thing so uh we want to honor that want you to honor that your heritage and your your cultural upbringing and tendencies and all those kinds of things but just in the midst of it be wise that's the whole thing this is the ramsay show

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five if you've been paying attention the real estate market you know it's out of control it's crazy competition to buy a property multiple offers it's crazy inventory has been hitting all-time lows now when inventory is low it simply means there's more buyers buying than sellers selling which turns the pressure up buyers want to snag the right house sellers want to accept the right offer this is not amateur hour

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you can we talk real estate for a second yeah let's do so we're talking during the break about just even in nashville it's just it's crazy right now like our friends are trying to buy houses and they're asking like insane over asking price and they're still not getting it like it's just wild so kovit plays into this and i know real estate you know you look over decades

and decades you see the influx of things going up and down i mean it's just like anything else but what do you i mean it just feels like it's insane right now and i don't know if that's just because we live in nashville and nationals it's everywhere so so what does covid cause people because

i would think coming out of 2020 you

almost are more conservative and you're holding tight and you're staying put because it still feels a little unstable right like we're not even i feel like out of all the stuff with covid so why

why the like why the surge well several things but the baseline on it is there's a shortage on new housing because the lumber factory shut down

and a lot of the other components of the house the factories shut down yeah a new lumber system get lumber yeah and then when you can't get it it drove the prices way up on that yeah and uh then there starts to be a frenzy around it a feeding frenzy like piranhas you know it's like crazy and uh and and so the new housing

slowed to nothing and there's this gap of six or eight months of production of the components therefore the new houses and when you take the new housing gap uh

supply out the inventory supply out then it shortens up the well i can't get a new house so i gotta go buy a used house and so it doubles doubles down plus many people looking at half the numbers of houses and so you end up with a inventory shortage of new and used housing and a shortage always cause i mean you got you know half the number of houses for sale as

there are buyers out there you know two to one three to one ratio whatever four to one whatever the ratio is then you know that just that alone did this but the coke what kovit did was it shut down not the real estate market because people are still buying houses during quarantine they were buying them sight unseen on zoom and other stuff right right but but the uh uh

the factory shutting down the supply chain getting screwed up has screwed up the economy so it's and then the buyers go crazy

yeah and then the sellers go crazy yeah and then the buyers go crazier and so there's this this cycle of just this feeding frenzy and it's all in motion and and so

you know you're seeing properties uh in lots of towns get multiple multiple offers uh you know fifty a hundred thousand dollars over asking prices yeah and they line up through the whole weekend and there's 62 offers on a house over the weekend that's not unusual in a lot of cities right now but that'll subside it'll just eventually the feeding frenzy calms down and then they'll just be

this like hangover uh you know like the housing hangover after that it'll just be like like the morning you felt this ever i mean for four years i've never seen it like this exactly yeah but uh in 19

in the 19 uh what we are going to see out of this that you've never seen your generation has ever seen is inflation inflation the components that make up the inflation index housing is one of them it's the biggest part of inflation and when housing shoots up and oil shoots up and oil has shot up too yeah it has yeah and uh you know you look at

the gas pump oh i know i filled up my minivan two days ago nobody's talking nobody's talking about it but the gas pump doubles and housing goes up a bunch then all of a sudden you're gonna see stuff like i saw in the 70s and 80s which was double digit inflation where stuff's going up 10 15 a year and inflation was out of control and the politicians

it took it you know it took some real strong

politicians to do away with it uh it was out of control how do they do away with it well i i credit ronald reagan i'm just putting the brakes on because it was out of control under carter and he comes in and shifted economic policy and uh just started opening up uh doing away with regulation opening up the markets because if you can flood the market with supply it slows down as flows down the feeding frenzy because if you can get it everywhere there's no scarcity sure then the prices start to settle

you know if there's an oversupply prices go down if there's an under supply prices go up because there's people chasing it you know few you know half the number of people chasing it as there are you know you got two houses for sale for every buyer well all of a sudden prices stabilize start to go down start to or at least quit shooting through the roof so

the out of control upward inflation so we're probably going to see some actual inflation out of this which we've not seen in two decades but in 1982 or yeah in

1980s under carter the uh interest rates

on housing was eighteen percent seventeen percent i was in in college so on real estate so guess what happened nobody's buying houses because your interest rate on a house is like a credit card that's insane yeah and so nobody's buying houses they're all on the sideline going i can't buy a house with these interest rates yep and so everybody that would have bought a house that year starts stacking up and you get pent-up demand water behind the dam it's getting really spill over the dam and so when rates came down from 18 to 14.

i was selling real estate at 22 years

old and rates were 14 and there were cars

lined up around the block in the new subdivision it was like just that 4 i mean like yeah but but but it was three four years of nobody buying a house and

the floodgates broke loose 14 was enough to get them out of their house yeah and it was like kovad they lined up around the dadgum block buying these houses and guess what prices went up interest rates continued to go on down yeah of course over the years after that we saw 12 and then we saw 10 and i was on the radio by then and i'm like oh you'll never see single digit interest rates again ever in mortgages well obviously

i was an idiot and didn't know what i was talking about because we've had single digit interest rates and now we've had what we've had for a decade we've had two or three percent i was going to say it's like went down last year yeah you know you watch these interests that's the other thing you watch these interest rates go up with inflation yeah it'll shut this housing market down

i was going to say how yeah the correlation between inflation and the interest if you go from three to six this housing market will freeze like a deer in the headlights it'll just stop people just stop buying they'll just back up and wait and uh that's you're gonna see some of that back and forth now it's going to be a little rocky a little volatile but it won't

this feeding frenzy that you've got right this second is not going to continue yeah but you do not want to be buying a house or selling a house right now without a pro in your corner oh sure this is not this is not amateur hour right here yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah really not amateur just a bizarre this is how you can overpay for something or or

you know not get them you could you could be off a hundred grand on what you could have got with an agent that knew how to manipulate the whole process yeah because it's basically a freaking auction in some of these cities on some of these properties that was one of ours in our neighborhood the builder did an auction he was like highest price and people were like

i mean it was a good it was put them out in the front yard crazy i was like what is happening right now yeah yeah well that but that's that it's i don't know if it's just now yeah but it's an emotional frenzy well that's it too buying a home if you just back up and go right now i'm just gonna chill and watch all these crazy people finish

and when they finish then i'm to walk back in there because you can't get a deal in most markets let's add let's add one

more variable to it all the people leaving california because they're sick of it they're done they're done with crazy land all the people leaving new york because they're done with crazy land and they're they're coming out of there like oh they're right you can't chicago here's another short here's another shortage u-hauls u-haul's leaving california you can't find one you can't find them to rent one you mean you really you can't rent one in new york because they're leaving they're all leaving and they're not coming back

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today as we take your questions about your life and your money kendra is in houston texas hey kendra how are you good how about

yourself better than i deserve what's up

um i have a quick question for you um you and rachel um my husband and i are had just finished baby step 3b um and we're closing on our first home yeah i know very exciting we've worked really following your principles we've worked a really long time so we're very excited good for you um but i have a good question in regards to that so our lender contacted us this morning

saying that we qualified for a property inspection waiver or essentially an appraisal waiver um and where they would still like we don't need an appraiser to come praise her to come out and appraise the thing they would give us the loan is that something we should do or i'm just i just need a little bit of wisdom on that okay uh how much are you putting down

uh we're putting down um 77 000.

okay and what's the price range home it

is 300. okay

i have not run into this is it are you getting a conventional loan we are we're getting the convention alone and we just locked our rate in yesterday okay i think i'm learning something right now i've never heard of them waving an appraisal so it's okay that they are it's just unusual in the past it was unheard of so it may have to do with the hot market

it may have to do with the down payment size so they feel safe because you're putting a big chunk down you know that kind of thing so uh here's the thing the appraisal is an opinion of value how comfortable

are you that you're not dramatically overpaying

i would feel pretty comfortable we didn't go um that we paid basically offered at this price which obviously we've done the comp etc with our um realtor oh you did cops okay okay so you looked at cars they pulled everything and you you com you did comparable analysis using the comparable sales in the area and that that gave you an indication that the price is accurate yes that's correct that's what an appraisal is okay an appraisal a standard residential

appraisal form has three comps on it and they adjust for the differences in square footage and and attributes and uh amenities and so forth and so if you've got a four bedroom versus a three bedroom or a three-car garage versus a two-car garage or whatever they adjust for that and then they adjust 3 500 square feet to 3700 square feet and after the adjusted price that that other house that sold adjusted to look like yours equals x

the other one equals y the other one equals z and the average of those three is is how a residential appraisal is done so you've already done one

yeah i guess i guess we kind of essentially have yeah so the only reason you would need one is if you were unsure about the price and i'm not unsure about it after listening to you okay okay i just didn't want to do anything i mean because i didn't even know that was an option until we get somebody i didn't either i just i i've never heard of yeah

so i'm learning something with you right here but you see my point the only reason you would buy an appraisal is to protect you and you're okay okay okay i just didn't know if like us doing kind of our own and with our realtor if anything would be different it's gonna be it might it might be a tiny bit off but it's not i mean the the

where your realtor pulled the comps from is where the residential appraisal appraiser is gonna pull the comps from so very likely would be the exact same comps or you know if you pull five three of those will be on that form probably okay cool if they're if they're close in geographic proximity and close in date of sale and fairly

close in attributes it's not good to compare a 3 500 square foot house with a 7 000 square foot house okay it's not good to compare one that sold last year at this time last month and it's and within five or ten percent of square footage and five or ten percent of the same attributes you mean you've got a very good comp then right you see what i'm doing right yeah

i do yeah that's how it's done so you're i i think you're very safe okay i'm just i find out i'm very risk adverse when it comes time to purchasing a home

about everything but let me tell you what does away with risk is knowledge okay and that's what you're doing it's what you're doing you're gathering knowledge here and so you're not trusting me i hope i'm trying to get you to say you understand this and you know what

your value is and so you're safe yeah but when you're in i mean it's your first home control so yeah you mean you're one of the largest purchase you'll probably ever make in your lifetime and so you're thinking oh gosh i want to do it right so i get that yeah and and in times past mortgage companies always required an appraisal to protect them to not make a loan that's too big on a house that's not worth what

the loan is or something and they you know in times past that's what the appraisal was always for it was required by them for

them but you got the benefit of the actual safety extra safety coverage but the methodology for the appraisal and the comparative market analysis is identical

and so you know your your real estate agent can do an appraisal that is the same thing your appraiser would do if they're if they're a decent real estate agent ryan is with us ryan's in chicago hey ryan how are you i'm doing well how about you dave better than i deserve what's up hey dave i'm calling in i recently found you on youtube like a lot of callers i've been listening to

you getting a lot of knowledge now trying to put things in practice i recently went through a divorce that was not my choice i'm sorry and as worse yeah thank you for your condolences there um and as everything kind of the dust

settled uh i'm kind of taking

i'm on baby step two i only have one

debt uh i kind of foolish i bought a european luxury vehicle for about fifty thousand i owe about twenty thousand on it and after all of the community assets

have been divided up i ended up with about twenty five thousand in precious metals about a hundred and twenty thousand in cash and some toys boy toys like a

you know motorcycle about fifteen thousand and some other items so i had one outstanding debt for twenty thousand dollars on a vehicle but i kind of feel stuck in stasis uh i'm kind of in a hybrid step i'm i just started investing ten percent with my company matching six percent of uh pre-tax

into the 401k and then uh with the

assets on hand i'm kind of i i've lost some money in cryptocurrency i've lost some money in the stock market we had to sell our home because of the divorce and so now as i'm taking stock at you know a little over 40 years old what do i want to do with the cash on hand it's just fitting and i kind of find myself frozen a little bit not really knowing what to do with

it i don't have a lot of faith in what the stock market is going to do so i thought well hey first time caller short time listener would love to get your advice okay well ryan i'll i'll speak up in part of this so a couple of things i mean you have yeah 125 000 in cash and so that will cover

the car debt that you have so i would do that asap i would take the remaining

probably hundred thousand dollars and figure out how much your expenses are per month and set some of that aside so we always talk about getting a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you would not put this in the market you would put it in a you know a high yield savings account or a money market account that fully funded emergency fund and then from there bump up that 10 percent that you're investing to 15 and and i would say with the medals i

mean commodities are just a tough thing to to have money in so i don't know what you would say dave but i mean i would i would sell those and not have have that around me 25 000 and that's a lot and if you that'd pay off the car that one

even though the the five-year performance of silver and gold has been very favorable

for those who have held it you would still go ahead and sell that in terms of 50-year uh performance of silver and gold absolutely sucks okay the long track

record i mean and so i don't i don't buy stuff i don't buy entire investment classes based on their five-year returns it's a high risk play you can do it if you want to do it but i don't have any money in precious metals i don't even mean bitcoin uh bitcoin's made a bunch of money this year a lot of money but i don't do short term plays

i do long term plays i'm the tortoise and every time i read the book he wins so yeah i'm cashing the medals out paying off the car what rachel said finish your emergency fund just speed fast go fast forward right through those right through those baby steps dude hold on i'll send you a copy of the total money makeover since you're a new listener and it'll show

you the baby steps in detail and if you'll just follow them you'll be a millionaire in no time i'm sorry for your hurt your broken heart's part of this decision-making

paradigm

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rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five carol

is with us in fort wayne indiana hi carol how are you i am fine thank you very much sure what's up my husband and i have been blessed that we are already in step seven yay that the house has paid off

we're in our early 60s and i'm

wondering how do we now relax and enjoy that we're in this position congratulations thank you we are still

nervous to spend money yeah cautious

well you had a lot of years of using that muscle yes and uh so how much money do you have what's the nest egg we have around a million dollars in assets good for you oh in assets okay so how much of that is the house

probably 250 275. okay

so seven eight hundred grand in your retirement or in mutual funds or whatever then right yes okay good for you good for you yeah

this is something carol i feel like we we hear a lot from you know whether it's baby step seven or even baby step four five and six after people have done their emergency fund and gotten out of debt it's like they emotionally haven't caught up to where they are and you guys are you guys retired not yet my husband will retire probably in two three years okay okay yeah so i think that this is it's a very normal place to be in that question and kind of that that uh hesitancy to just enjoy and so

for me i know numbers and facts

help me a lot and so it's not like this idea you're just gonna go crazy and spend whatever you want because you guys are at this point you know you're gonna still have a budget you're still gonna live on it you're going to be able to increase your lifestyle you know percentage points and so you guys can do that run out the numbers and that's when you can get comfortable

when you say okay yeah we can do this like we and when you actually have the numbers in front of you and it's not just this idea in my head in your head that's going to help settle some of that emotion yeah right and you suggest doing that with a financial advisor or running it on our own both probably but but uh you've got to

get them into you have to get the numbers into your heart to relax um and so what i do uh what sharon and i

often do is because you know we're in a financial place that our emotions may never catch up to uh having gone

bankrupt and then having struggled and fought and been frugal for so many years and then you live like no one else then later when it's time to live like no one else then it's hard to relax and do it so the rule we kind of use is the rule we kind of use is whatever the thing is that's we're thinking about doing and we go are we crazy

you know we ask ourselves okay if we take that much money let's just make up a number let's say you were gonna go buy a 20 000 something that feels

luxurious to you it feels like you might be out of control it feels a little crazy okay you know what i'm talking about i mean you're going on a cruise or you're buying a car or you're buying i don't know i don't care what it is a twenty thousand dollar thingy okay then the quite the way the way we visualize it is we say all right let's put twenty thousand dollars cash in the middle of the kitchen table and burn it

did our life change

and in your case the answer would be no

other than you almost threw up when i said it but i mean but you know but mathematically you got a million dollars house and and you know and and mutual funds and retirement and so if you just took 20 000 and just completely

screwed up and it just disappeared it evaporated that's 0.002 percent

it doesn't matter it's like most people buying a biscuit that sounds hard to get in your mind wrapped around i know but but mathematically mathematically and logically what i'm saying is correct isn't it yes it is emotionally it's hard

to accept and that's the difference and so we just have to ask ourselves and and we do this in two areas consumption and generosity

yes because we uh one of our great

motivators is generosity and so you can get out of control with that and have given everything away and be eating you know be on the bread line or whatever you know and so we ask ourselves if we make this gift that feels like it is the law i mean it's more than we made some years you know but now if we make this gift i mean you probably had a year like

i did where you didn't make twenty thousand didn't you you did yeah and so if i give a 20 000 gift you give a 20 000 gift away for us that's more than we made in a whole year back in the day so it's in our emotions

it feels like wow but

you're not even gonna know it's gone because it's 20 000 out of a million

that's true well we keep saying to ourselves we can't take it with us well that's true yeah yeah i mean you know i just read uh my buddy andy anders just did a post he said you know you put you can own hotels and boardwalk or you can rent on baltic but at the end of the story you no matter which one you do the the all

the pieces in the board game goes back in the box so so here's what i want you to i want you to work on generosity and i want you to work on that exercise to say

all right let's buy something let's look at something we've always wanted in quotes dot dot that when i get there someday i'm gonna do dot dot dot i'm gonna travel to that place i'm gonna buy that thing whatever that is okay and i want you to

put that amount of money in the middle of the table and both of you talk about it and process the intellectual understanding that it doesn't matter because it's a small enough percentage of your world that it's like most people buying a biscuit we'll do that so like i've got a friend that i went uh it was just he and i were talking about this same thing a few years ago i went to an event with him and he's a billionaire he has a thousand

million not one million he has a thousand million that's a lot and he had just

bought 125 000 car and it was the first

new car he had ever bought and it's a really nice mercedes 125 000

and he was feeling a little bit guilty like maybe he should have given that money or and he got hate mail somebody sent him hate mail cause he shouldn't as a christian he shouldn't have spent that much money on a car and he's feeling a little bit guilty about that and on the other hand too he was he's like i don't know if this was wise or not he's just like a little kid he's a billionaire where he's coming from yeah

i know but he's a billionaire and buying a hundred thousand dollars i mean when you have a thousand million and you spend a hundred thousand i mean it's like it's like somebody's dropping a dollar bill out their window of the car it doesn't show up mathematically and

and by the way it's none of your business what he drives you get to do your own thing all of you out there you don't get to pass judgment on other people although you think because of social media it's your freaking job but you know so carol i want you to

increase your generosity to the level that it makes you touch this same nerve and i want you to increase your spending on a single luxury item that makes you touch this nerve and that'll cause you to be able to do tooth to relax so we increase our giving we increase our spending but only if we do it wrong or

when the money is just gone it it didn't change our life yeah in that and it's a great exercise to think about it because because again the emotions have not caught up with the math and so you're having to get pushed through it but once you start to do this carol over the next you know year or two you'll get used to doing it yes you're not you're never going to be a rash out of control spender you will you will

not do that you just can't it's not possible for you to do it the number of people that i've seen that think like you think that lose everything because they overspend are zero they're just not people just don't make that trip you will never go over to the land of stupid you just you you you'll be so far away from it that it's just not in the cards for

you so you're safe you're safe you're gonna be okay but what i want you to do is just learn to enjoy some of the money and learn to be generous with some of the money at a level that it really doesn't affect your life but it really increases your enjoyment for all the years of hard work and saving yeah i was going to say you guys have sacrificed you've earned saying carol

have some fun live like no one else and now you get to live and give like no one else and that's the whole thing and there's nothing wrong with that morally spiritually there's nothing wrong with that financially you are great you're amazing

i'm so proud of you this is the ramsey show

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hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to the ramsay show.com thanks for listening [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw

as the status symbol of choice rachel

cruz ramsey personality and best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

and uh big day today rachel is launching a new version of the rachel cruz

wallet a new color a new color

yes it's not a version that's right no but it is is great though uh so yes for a limited time we have a metallic blush

wallet ladies and so in the wallet there

are 10 card slots so debit cards gift cards membership cards all of that is in there and then five or four sewn in

envelopes so if you're using the envelope system it's in there and even you know we talk about the cash how important it is but those of you on baby steps four five and six you know it gets to a point that you've been budging for a while and cash isn't always the the only way to go about it and so i know for me it's always a place just to put receipts or

you have stuff you just stick in it's kind of like when i think of my my bags my favorite organizer my purses the bigger the better because i just throw everything in and so even if you don't use cash this is still a great option so it is here the rachel cruz blush wallet for a limited time you go to ramsey solutions.com um again we have a limited quantity

and then there will be no more and there will be no more of the blush i know it's so pretty though so mother's day if you need a gift for mother's day this is a great a great option but it's it's oh it might be my it's my favorite color for sure yeah real leather made in india by yes join we partnered with join and they're an incredible organization there they make authentic leather goods so this is real leather and they take people

off the streets or in terrible situations and employ them they give them the opportunity to completely change their family trees so while you buy this wallet you're changing your family tree by committing to do something with your money that maybe you've never done before like being on a budget and using cash but also you are helping people change their family trees on the other side of the world completely so join is an incredible an incredible

organization and they make an incredible product like it's you know i mean like it's so really hard i mean it's so good you guys it's so so great so there's that again roomysolutions.com store and it'll put you right there on the metallic blush you have the other two colors we have plenty of the other two colors yes black and camel are the other two original wallets that came out yes so they will be there but again limited edition for mother's day the metallic rose gold kate is in kansas

city to start off this hour hey kate what's up hi thank you guys so much for taking my call my mother-in-law is 60 and i'm trying to

help her with her finances she has 36 000 in retirement and if she was to

start your baby step she'd be on baby step 2 and she has 20 000 in

student loan debt so with her budget she only has like a 500 she could put towards the debt which means it's gonna take her over three years to pay off the debt and then additional six months to get the emergency fund in place so she would only be around age 64 to start

actually putting money into retirement and she

says she wants to retire by like 66. so um

because of all that she doesn't really want to put anything towards debt right now and just invest in retirement and i

know you never change the order of your baby steps so i know that's what i would want or i want to recommend um and i have but she just doesn't see it that way and so i'm hoping you can help me like word it in a way that it shows that that's the best way and then also just your thoughts on her retiring at 66 i don't know if that's the best thing to do with her financial situation

this is a hard one because emotionally where she's at though is she's freaking out because she thinks i have 36 thousand dollars in retirement and that's it and i want to retire at 66 and all my money is going to go to my retirement i mean that's your knee-jerk reaction but what you have to realize and what she needs to realize is even having a twenty thousand dollar student loan debt um is risk not having other cash in the

bank for an emergency fund is risk as well and so getting to a point where she can clean up all of that she's able to clean up the debt and have

that cash set aside it's going to put her in such a better place but the urgency is going to have to kick in because money flows two ways i mean money flows in money flows out and like you said flowing out she's got about 500 in the budget if you've done a really tight budget and then you're going to she's gonna have to figure out what to do between now and then to bring in some extra income to get the student loan paid off even faster what does she make uh she makes about

three thousand months doing what uh she makes dentures

so she works 40 hours yeah

okay um she's not gonna like this either

but she needs another job yeah and

another job and another job like six jobs because

let me tell you what she has right now a fantasy none of this is going to happen with what you just described if she gets rid of this debt before retirement on the budget you're talking about i'll be shocked yeah and because she's not serious about it because she doesn't have any hope because she can't see the numbers getting there and um you know with five hundred dollars a month is six thousand dollars a year that's eighteen thousand dollars in three years that is not going to make her be able to retire

it's a fantasy so she needs some income

yeah um and uh so is she was

your father-in-law was it a divorce that he passed away a divorce how long ago oh

20 years and she's still mad married

she was remarried again and then she

that didn't work out and they got divorced a couple years ago and she actually they declared bankruptcy from that so that wiped out any debt she had before that except the student loan because student loans aren't bankruptable well that this was actually a new loan for additional schooling for dental work um 20 000 to make 36

yeah wow okay

um well her problem is that that

in order for any of these things to occur she's going to have to increase her income so she's going to be working a lot of hours she can actually end up with 100 to 200

000 in her nest egg and be debt free by 66 or 67 but not on 40 hours a week making 36 000. okay we have to she's going to add some hours to her life i know she's tired i know she doesn't want to do it but i don't want to retire and have to eat alpo either so uh

i don't know what the extra job is that makes her a bunch of money making and working another 40 hours a week for the next two years but that'll solve a lot of these problems because she can create another three thousand dollars a month bad news is her income sucks good news is it's easy to double

is she receptive kate did she listen to you um i mean she was willing to meet with me um so uh that was positive what about her son is she willing to meet with him um i think so yeah i think he needs to

step on mom and say mom you're gonna have to up the game here baby uh because if she's not listening to you she needs to listen to somebody because you know it's not a it's not a baby steps out of order problem it's an income problem that's the math breakdown

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show where we talk about your life your money and your life it's a free call at triple eight eight two five five two two five here at ramsey solutions we wanna transform so many lives

that the toxic culture is disrupted

imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan where people pay cash for their cars

where they know how to operate in their marriage and raise their kids

imagine a world where they know how to get the job that they love and hire the people that they want on their team and be high quality world-class leaders

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about all of the open opportunities that are here carter is with us in billings montana hi carter welcome to the ramsay show hello how are you better than i deserve what's up i got a funny question so we probably have too much money wrapped up in their cars but they're paid off um and we have very little debt maybe

oh 24 000 in the camper and

and that's about it um and then we have

a mortgage you know no second no nothing and we own some real estate on the side free and clear just raw land uh i feel

kind of silly having this much money wrapped up in cars how much do you have wrapped up in cars well probably between two of them i could sell them for probably 95 000 come away with 95 000 in cash what's your household income 200

okay it's not it's not completely out of

line it does i can understand how it feels silly but the rule of thumb we use is that you shouldn't own things with car with with motors and wheels or wheels or motors that totaled up

equals more than half your annual income camper camper puts you over yes it does

and so and it has debt so the thing i would sell the thing i would sell is the camper

okay what do you think carter yeah it's not you don't like that i'm just thinking let's take it two years from now and the cars depreciate then it drops below our oh you know the the annual income i'm just i felt kind of silly that we paid cash for that stuff and you know we could have put it towards i don't know what else we put it towards

but i wouldn't have bought it if i didn't pay cash for it right so i don't feel silly if you're paying cash for it i feel silly for buying it maybe yeah but um i mean you're right up at the top you did but you got a lot tied up and things going the wrong direction yeah but you got a great income and you can offset that

but you do need to it sounds like you've been sloppy and you need to tighten up your decision making and tighten up your plan right correct that's all it is i mean you don't have anything here that's devastating you're not going bankrupt you're not you know you're not way over in the stupid zone where i got to go what you know but um it's not that but it's just it's close

you know and that's why that's why you're feeling the pinch i mean because the bottom line is when you've got more than half your annual income tied up and things that are going down in value it's hard to become wealthy sure it's a it's a simple principle and that's that's what it comes down to so how long have you made 200 um several years decade okay

what are the cars uh it's uh

one ton ram pickup to uh 2019 and then a

toyota highlander okay 2016. yeah

okay yeah i would say car i mean the cars aren't the problem at this point i mean like you said they're pretty they're paid for all of it and so i get how it feels kind of and i'm pretty sure we can pay the camper off pretty damn darn excuse me darn easy this year yeah yeah knock it out knock the camper out if you want to hold on that's fine

but and then just draw a line in the sand and go we're not going to be back up here again right and so what happened was the i can tell you which car was purchased last obviously based on the year but also based on just the how the story's going down you bought this big but expensive truck over the top killer massively wonderful

truck and you just completely boy impulsed on it and you're feeling regret well it's middle of the line and my old truck was 22 years old and it's been paid off forever so yeah you could say that yeah and so i

mean you could have you you're wishing you had bought a truck about between the two

correct and not over the top that's you got that taste of regret on the back of your tongue and that's all it is and i i've i've had that taste that's how i know what it tastes like so um i get it i understand so just the thing is uh

do a little uh autopsy on the whole situation and go okay what do i never want to do again as a result of this story spend that much money well what did i do wrong that i wished i hadn't done okay and um so

you know that that's what i ask myself when i do you know i've done a lot of stupid stuff my goal is to not do the same stupid thing because i figure out what it is and just put that okay i got that one behind me i don't have to do that one again because i've already done that one there will be another one but i don't have to do that one

and if you if you have a big enough pile of stupid things that you never do again people call you wise like you know how to

navigate this you know your way through this it's cause i know what stupid looks like and lots of it but the problem is when you do the same thing over and over and over again right and you just keep going back to the same dumb thing and then that's the definition of insanity uh doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results so i i don't

i think the emotion of this is what's more important than the actual math yeah i mean if you tighten up the budget you pay off the camper all of it you're going to look up in 12 months carter and probably feel a completely different set of emotions right now than that little feeling you're feeling yeah and truthfully if you say okay these two parts of the decision were

the bad parts i will never do those two things again it's easier to put all of this behind you and move on and just leave the trucks and the cars in place and get you know get on with it don't right just don't do that again you know that kind of thing yeah because you you you didn't go over well you did with the camper you did

you did go over but um you know so you but there's nothing here that's requiring it to all be undone

it doesn't do any good could sell the camper though still could uh walter's with us in vermont hey walter what's up thank you so much for taking my call my wife and i have an opportunity to refinance our mortgage our mortgage company has because the interest rates have gone down uh significantly since we originally got the mortgage just a couple of years ago when we bought the house they've actually given us what's your current right current rate is 3.375 what are they offering you drop it down to 2.875

it's not a huge drop um it would save us

37 dollars per month the only thing is they cannot they kick in what's your loan balance

loan balance is 154 000.

okay you're gonna save a half a percent a year on a hundred and fifty four thousand you'll save 750 a year what's the closing cost uh no closing

costs because they're gonna they're gonna nothing out of pocket at all nothing out of pocket at all the only thing they do though because it's an fha loan oh it's a streamline they're talking about 900 onto the loan amount for insurance okay but nothing out of pocket per year no no

well it would take 254 and add on 900

to it no are you adding 900 per year

or one time no just one time well then it takes you a little over a year to break even because you're saving 750 750 a year on a half a percent

savings and takes you a little over a year to break even if you're gonna stay in the house three or four years it's gonna make a little bit of sense this is not a life-changing thing it's 750 a year it's probably not worth screwing

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rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five suzanne is with us in

utica new york hi suzanne how are you

oh i'm okay i have a problem with

i sold some stocks and

my advisor had told me that they would

not be taxed or counted as income and when i did a

my income tax online which i didn't push the button yet to send it but um i it's showing that now i owe the federal over a thousand and the state over a thousand

and i just wondered what what did i do wrong besides this and listen to maybe some bad advice maybe or maybe the online software sucks

okay that's possible you may be getting a wrong result from the online software what are you using turbotax

no it was the irs oh god

okay yeah that's bad all right so

uh what did you sell how much did you sell um yeah i sold

forty thirty five thousand dollars

worth okay and d do you know what your basis was in that does that mean how much i

paid how much you paid for that stock that sold for thirty five yeah but the um the agency that holds my

stuff doesn't have that information they don't

no why what happened well let's see

when i got to stock it was purchased through an employer and i can't remember if if i purchased it

through payroll and they matched some i think that's the way it went and then

when i met this advisor

we put the stocks into a company

that she was advising me to do and

you put you you did you sell the stocks for the old stocks i got certificates i got certificates and then you move this how did you move certificates into something else i don't remember okay um i mean i've got

all the paperwork so how did you what did you put in this attack software that calculated that you owed a thousand you'd have to have your basis to do the calculation nope how much i sold no you

you sold it for 35 000 what you paid for

it the difference in what the difference in what you paid for it and what you sold it for is your gain and that's what you're taxed on okay so

they cast me on the 35 000 because i didn't have a cost basis yeah i'll see that's not right you do you do have a cost basis of some kind and it should not be okay your tax would be more than a thousand dollars on 35 000

okay okay so you have a mess so and i can't i can't untangle this barrel of fish hooks on the radio but what i'm going to do is this how old are you i have some homework i'm 67

67 okay yeah and it's just you

yes you're widowed or what i'm widowed

okay we're going to take care of you we take care of widows so i'm going to pay for out one of our people that we recommend for tax advice a tax professional

in the new york area to take care of you free thank you because the irs software sucks and you have a messed up lack of information and you're getting ready to get yourself into a mess that you don't need to get into you probably don't owe a lot of taxes but you've got to have to have some help scratching through and getting your proper information together to prove that

and we'll help you do that i'll get you with one of our tax elps one of the tax professionals that we recommend they will take care of you as a gift from us kelly will take care of that i'm gonna put you on hold and she's gonna pick up and do that so rachel usually when you

sell stock the if you had a broker

you know that you bought it through that company has the records sure of what you paid for it your basis and the difference in what you pay for it and what you sell it for is taxable and if it's been held longer than a year it's taxable 15 unless you make over 400 thousand dollars so uh in her case she'll be taxed at 15 on the gain

and so she if she if they're showing her gain is 35 000 the thousand dollars in taxes is not right it's a lot more than that right right yeah uh but uh so we've got to get the actual basis figured out and you may have to go back to the former employer or you may have to file some kind of estimated that's what it's going to say how do

you even well there's a the irs has a has a process for filing an estimated basis when you you know i mean it has to be based on logic you can't just make it up i mean right you have to make a series of assumptions and they'll they'll a tax advisor can walk you through that so um and but somebody should have a basis somewhere on that

and and poor suzanne sitting there dealing with the irs.gov oh my goodness i will tell you this there there's if you have a simple return online is fine and we have a we have a product called smart tax that's like 17 and if you you know if you're just doing your 1040 easy and you want to file online it's really easy to run it on smart tax

and you can get that at ramseysolutions.com in the store um or if you have a complicated return or a situation where you need some help like that you need a professional in your corner we have the elps in each area that we recommend that are tax professionals that do tax preparing and they cost more than 17 but you're going to save a lot more because you you know you've got a small business or you've got a transaction like that or something else going on

and you can get all of that at ramsey solutions yeah anytime there's those complicated or more intimidating parts of

money it's always good to bring a professional in so whether it's real estate taxes investing i mean anything that just feels like it's a little overwhelming it's a little complicated you may not even be able to if you can't explain it to someone else that means you have to you need to learn and you need to to grow in knowledge and part of that sitting down with a professional

and letting them help you i mean these people i can't believe it but breathe in and out this information day and day they love it i mean you know these tax professionals this is what they do and they see every every every situation they've had probably suzanne's um circumstance before in their office i don't know what to do you want to bring them on because yeah like

you said it's going to save so much time and money jonathan is in raleigh north carolina hey jonathan what's up hey dave thanks for taking my call better than hey good how can we help i was going to answer better than i deserved but what do i know i just was wandering along lost here how can i help

so i developed a product that's industry specific and i was wondering if you could give me some advice on when to actually file a patent like is there a number of units that i need to sell or like a dollar amount before i file my patent to i guess prove it in the market or take it to market to be mass producer licensed or whatever you can patent a prototype um

the patent space is full of a bunch of shysters and so you don't need to pay somebody

big dollars i mean there's things i've heard people pay 250 000 to get a patent attorney and all this and you do not need to do that uh my understanding is and i've had lots of clients that have done this have patented a prototype for usually costs around 10 grand but you've got to work your way through the process and you have to have the is it a product a hard product yes sir and so i i have a friend who

also has a bunch of trademarks and patents and he introduced me to his patent attorney she did a patent search through a legit firm and came back that

there's no other product like this what did she charge you for that a thousand dollars that's good what will she charge you to run the patent uh 2500 500 of which is for the

draftsmanship that's that's that's a reasonable deal yeah maximum of 10 grand out of pocket but i've heard lots there's all these things on the internet where they'll help you market the product and help you get the patent and all this stuff and and they don't do anything what is it jonathan i'm just curious it's a um for lack of a better term it's

a it's a tool pouch it helps us carry tools i'm alive and by trade and it

yeah yeah i would spend the money with her to do it it'd be that simple i do we've got bunches and bunches of trademarks we don't have any patents uh but we've trademarked everything around here like crazy so i spent a lot of money on that got a lot of knowledge on copyrights and trademarks because that's the publishing world and the uh you know these all of

these images and things that we own here are part of it that and urls uh my god but the uh um yeah so i i think if you can keep it down under ten thousand dollars and you have the cash to do it and you get it patented you can do it with a prototype that's all you gotta do and i would do that sooner rather than later

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our scripture of the day james 1 17 every good and perfect gift is from above

coming down from the father of the heavenly lights who does not change like shifting shadows william james says most people never run far enough on their first win to find out if they've got a second oh

anna's with us in phoenix hey anna what's up hi how are you better than i deserve how can we help hi um so i started listening to you

in july um i was 37 000

in debt um my fiance

he was around 120 130 to the irs

a thousand dollars and um so

i got to the point where now i'm at 19

and we didn't separate but he moved down to new mexico to try to figure out he did an

application of oic yeah to try to see

if they could help them out um most of it is really interesting and i just wanted to know like are we doing like the right thing i mean i make around 35

to 40 000 a year so what does he make he he was making 80

000 because he works in the oil field but it went down so now was he 10.99 and he just didn't pay taxes yeah oh my god has he quit doing that

well he now he found a job where they take out taxes so he's trying to find a second

job what does he make now at the new job no he's trying to find oh he's making 40 to 50.

so he got his pay cut in half but the oil field dried up or what yeah it's drying up yeah okay

all right move down there how much did he pay for this oic well he has a friend um that she used to work for the irs so she's kind of guiding him of what she recommends for him to do

we're just waiting on a response and he's gonna start like i said he's he's been saving up money to be you know start paying off but he has a lien on his name for the new mexico state so he's trying to pay that off first and then see what the irs says okay well i i i'm not going to give you

much hope on the on the oic okay yeah and

offer and compromise is what that stands for and that is when the irs observes that you have no assets and no income so they're never getting their money you basically have to prove that you are completely broke and don't have an income and that's not the case here he has an income and uh so i don't have a lot of hope that they're going to just forgive this or large chunks of it and even if they do they're going to want to lump sum and so if they instead of 95 000 or 120

000 if they come in and say oh we'll settle for 20 000. they're gonna want their 20 000 right then and he don't have any money well he's not a one now he they have them at 140 000 yeah but if they settle if they did an offering compromise and settled for twenty thousand dollars they're going with their twenty thousand dollars right then it's not a payment plan yeah so i'm yeah

i don't i don't want to be a a debbie downer here but the truth is very few oics get through

i've probably watched a hundred of them try and i might have seen 10 go through

okay over the years it's just the the burden that they put on you to prove that you have no money also means that you have no money to settle with them when they do finally take it so it's a it's a two-edged sword in a sense it gets you coming and going so irs debt moves to the front of everything yeah yeah and so i i think uh

what i if i were him you know i'm going to work the oic through but i'm not going to work it through for two years while it continues to double and triple with these with these uh penalties going up and these interest rates going up you follow me yeah so uh i mean give this thing 90 120

days maybe six months uh and in the meantime be working like a crazy person and piling up cash i want a big old pile of cash i want him working 100 hours a week and i want a big old pile of cash like 40 50 000 bucks piled up

yeah that's yeah you didn't sound real enthusiastic that's your only shot kiddo

yeah i know well that's why he he ended up living out there he moved out there so he could figure out that situation why i fixed my situation i don't know why you can figure out something in new mexico you can't figure out in arizona i know well he's trying to get his cbl now um he's finding ways where you don't have to go to class and pay that whole amount and you know try to get out to get a job down here but okay let me tell you what i'm hearing how old are you i'm 29.

okay i'm going to be your uncle dave for a minute don't you dare pay a dime of this until you're married this is his problem this young man needs to solve this freaking problem yeah that's why i told him like i'm not going to get married he doesn't want to get married yet because of his situation but that's why like it was better for me to pay off my situation

i was you need to get your mess cleaned up and you can be his biggest cheerleader but he needs to go he needs to he needs to roll up his sleeves go make a whole bunch of money do nothing but work like a crazy man and have a big old pile of money when this thing blows up and the oic doesn't go through he can get started on

it because if he throws 50 grand at it right quick because he's worked 100 hours a week um then he's got a good start on it it's the only way it's going away because the irs just does not go away it's just uh they're not bankruptible they're just going to be there and it's not going to get anything but worse so the sooner he you know reverses

the trend on this the better off he's going to be and i just hear you caring about this and being more logical about it than he is that always kind of concerns me sometimes when anna you're the one calling and he's not so um and again maybe it's situational and it's today you were able to pick up the phone call but i want him to be

more involved than you are in his mess if that makes sense yeah that's exactly right trying to be nice on i feel for you you're you're really good i feel for you but but be aware like you need you're you're set up here for a problem kiddo be careful jessica's in las vegas hi jessica welcome to the ramsay show hi hi hello i'm

super excited i wanted to call as soon as we get off our debt we paid off our debt our 27 thousand

dollars in three months thank you so much you guys i'm so happy

um such a late you know we're listening

you know shoulders however you sound so nervous i'm sorry um my question is we are now on step

three officially and um

you know it's saving three to six months and i was wondering if do we still

have to you know go get gazelle intensity or can we now sort of um

okay so relax yeah yeah you're gonna ask

yeah can we just relax and since now we're on baby step three i wasn't telling you jessica um no the gazelle intensity continues until baby step three is done so the same intensity you guys used to pay off all that debt i think you said three months jessica which is incredible so congratulations keep that intensity until that baby step three is paid off yeah i'm sorry saves that cash here's the problem jessica the you you when you don't have

i i've noticed this my whole life when i'm broke is like when i attract emergencies

like emergencies just come find me and

when i'm not broke they stay away they go to other people's house and so having the emergency fund is like

emergency repellent it keeps the mosquitoes away it keeps the emergencies from coming in and if they do come in you got the money for them and so it is vitally important that you become debt-free other than the house with great intensity and that you finish the emergency fund with great intensity but you're gonna do it very fast because compared to where you were five months ago with twenty seven thousand dollars in debt and no money once you have twelve thousand dollars in your emergency fund and no debt your life has completely changed and you have done it congratulations it's amazing but yeah you do need to continue to lean in sounds like you all been very intense and i congratulate you for that and it won't take that much more a little bit more i mean if you think about if you did 27 that fast how fast can you do 12.

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to

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## 190. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 22, 2021)


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this is the ramsey show you can be intentional

about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice dr john deloney ramsey personality and host of the vastly popular dr john dolone podcast is my co-host today we'll be taking your calls and your questions about your life

because he's here and he can help you with your life and i've always got an opinion about it because i'm an expert on my opinion and we'll talk about your money too if you want the phone number is free and some say the advice is worth what you pay for it the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five joe's gonna start off

this hour in boston hey joe what's up

hey james how are you better than i deserve how can i help so i'm uh 22 years old and graduating

college in a couple weeks um i'll be getting married in the fall my fiance will also be graduating uh we're really excited for that both of us congratulations it's awesome man thank you thank you

so excited um we're both debt-free i'm

going to be making about 45 000 after graduation she's probably

going to be in a similar ballpark maybe a little less but not that much we currently have about 20 25

000 in saving which a good chunk

actually comes from the unemployment assistance and we're just you know a little concerned about that you know with some of the new legislation going forward as you know if we might have to pay it back so we're we're trying to figure out the the best way to just make smart decisions with you know an apartment or probably not buying a house but

you know a living situation and just uh how to be you know financially responsible to live well going forward way to go what's your degree in what's her degree in minds in theology first in psychology and elementary education okay so are you going to become a pastor or what are you going to do i'm going to be a youth minister at a catholic church nearby in the area wonderful good for

you okay cool thank you very fun all right well uh you know it sounds like you got a lot on your plate uh it's gonna be an exciting 12 months agreed yeah yeah absolutely we're very excited so why boston i just grew up here um you know big big red sox fan big awesome sports fan and you know we're both from the area and love it you know playing playing to stay uh around around here okay well buying a home is a

good thing as a part of the scope of your life uh it's a complicated thing it's a big decision uh there's a lot of moving parts to it uh obviously it requires money it's one of the largest purchases you'll ever make in most cases and uh so i recommend something that's highly uncomfortable because everybody's running around going get a house get a house get a house get a house because all renters go to hell get a house get a house get a house get a house right you know it's like like renting is evil or something you know what i'm saying and i don't want you to be a renter when you're 32 you're 22.

to add a house purchase to the busiest year of your life ever

you're graduating getting new jobs getting married i mean my god the last thing you want to do is hang curtain rods yeah okay i mean really it causes divorces but um yeah so i i we always joke and say you'll make a the serious thing is you'll make a better decision one year after marriage about which house to purchase because you'll know each other better you've got all of this busyness and craziness in your rearview mirror and it'll be a calm steady wise decision

you're out of debt you have your emergency fund you have a good down payment that's a good decision i got to get a house because i'm getting married is about the way you make a stupid mistake and by the way it takes about a year of being married to know how close to your mother-in-law to by i was gonna say two or three years but one's a minimum

and maybe yeah i'd get the smallest the smallest place y'all can afford to live in like you're not trying to prove anything to anybody you're getting to know each other that was a mistake i made coming out of colleges i rented this big freaking nice place that was like three times more expensive than i should just because i could afford it and it was all rented money

it says wasted money right and i stayed there six months and then we moved in the stinky butt little apartment started saving money and we had bugs in our first apartment man it was i want you to do that i'm not saying it was great i'm just saying we should sign up for buzz we survived we lived well yeah but we're not yeah and we learned to have some conversations that

we wouldn't have had yeah it's okay to go small and clean nobody yeah yeah no rats you don't need any pets in there just you too just spend the year spend the year enjoying your first year of marriage and your first year of starting off at adult life with all these jobs and graduations and all this stuff and you know and you will make a much better decision a year later

and you be out of debt have your emergency fund and have your down payment and but everybody's going to put pressure on you because everybody's a freaking genius you're 22 you're gonna die if you don't buy a house horse crap you're not gonna die i've never considered um hitting you up

dave to create a dave ramsey t-shirt but a t-shirt that said all runners go to hell would sell really well that's a fantastic but isn't it the way people talk about it oh they talk about it as if it's a salvation issue the number of people when we just got an apartment i didn't i didn't know what we were doing with our livestreams they sound like a beagle chasing a rabbit oh you're just gonna

if you want you could i'll just go flush your money for you i mean i it was over and over and over yeah and they're all they're all broke but they all got expert advice on me buying a house yes that's right you know it's just they're just and they

do they they drive p you people you broke people don't need to be giving financial advice it makes you look dumb and god help you somebody will follow it and just set a young couple up to be stable and you said it best the last thing a young couple needs taking two new jobs in a new town and a new marriage is to also be worrying about can

we make this rent payment or this this mortgage payment this month or what's our house worth or the plumbing broke or whatever happens with new houses which it always happens you know in in ancient times the second kings in the bible even when a young couple got married it's very clear that the brand new husband did not go out to war in the first year he stayed home to make a home with his wife

they didn't put brand new married soldiers on the front lines in ancient israel you need to get because he knows if he goes out there and you know it's not going to make good decisions he's not going to make good decisions yeah and it's very interesting there's something about that first year of marriage i mean you probably know some research on the statistics of you know what

you invest in each other in the first year of marriage sets a pattern for the rest of your life that's the key is these patterns that you adopt really quick and it can take years to unwind and they happen overnight right yeah you're both bringing you're both bringing your old patterns into this one pattern and you set it real fast it takes a while to undo those things

you say or those things you do or those annoying man you've got to really unlearn all that spend your time getting to know each other here's the other thing when you say when you do give somebody good advice they remember it i remember sharing i've been married almost 40 years we got married and we moved into this too expensive a house and it was three it was four bedrooms

there was two of us two dogs it was ridiculous but it was nice yeah you know and we thought we were we thought we were you know pretty cool and i went back i stopped by and saw my old uh elementary school principal evelyn

hyde and she's like where are you living i told her and i was like all proud and she's like that's dumb [Laughter]

she's a she was the best that's the best the world needs more evelyn's yes they do to look at genius 22 year olds and say that's dumb that was dumb this is the ramsay show

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life is full of firsts

as the first and longest serving christian health cost sharing ministry chm has shared medical expenses for its members since 1981.

we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more verses

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today austin is with us in fort myers florida hey austin how are you pretty great how about you better than i deserve sir how can we help so i'm i've been i recently just got married about a year ago congratulations me and my wife are trying to purchase a house um so i'm just trying to get some good advice um as well okay what's your question she also has

she also has some student loan debt and we're trying to figure out if this is a good time to buy a home or pay off your student loans pay off the student loan okay so you have the money to pay off the student loan um i have i have money saved before i got married to her and she and it's i mean i know when we got married it's all it's all equal as one but it's great that i had saved before we got married correct but now it's hers

okay it's not it's not i have money it's we have money now you're now we when you get married you're french we we jones okay so here's the thing unto the the old the old-fashioned marriage vows in the book of common prayer say in sickness and health for richer

for poorer unto thee all my worldly

goods i pledge you don't hear that in wedding vows much anymore uh it's kind of anti-prenuptial it's quite the opposite it's uh if we're going to share life we are going to share the money and the problems and the good things because you're gonna end up sharing them all anyway you might as well just admit it so this is a good time to admit it and it's a good exercise for her to accept that her student loans are paid off that

she got before marriage with money that you got before marriage and that's a very real sign in your relationship spiritually and financially that you have combined your households and then you start then you build your emergency fund and then you save up for a good down payment yeah don't go into a house without an emergency fund man because 100 chance something's going to break when you buy

it and you don't want to walk into that house with student loan debt and suddenly you're swimming upstream trying to fix stuff and make that mortgage payment let that house be a blessing man and there's something that snaps

in the psyche dr john that you know when

you force yourself to do an action that reveals that there's a new

reality yes i i it's this uh

it's a winnowing right it's this it's it's a test moment to where you can talk about all day long i know this is gonna be ours that can be ours you can hear that here i know this is ours but but i saved it right yeah okay well cool pay it off right yeah and it's it's like it's this shaky hand signing it off when i really do

it now is when it's a real thing yeah and i don't want to hate on anybody i get no no he's in heart he wasn't doing anything wrong that's a normal process whether you've been married a year whether you've been married 10 years there's people married 10 years still talking like that oh most 30 years 40 years with separate checking accounts you take care of these bills i'll take care of

these bills like roommates even that's exactly what they are the roommates they've never fully come together on this deal but when you anything where you're changing your life you're changing a behavior pattern and then you have to actually do the action yes not just discuss the theory of the action there's something that snaps in the old psyche you have to step into it it calls your bluff

and it begins to change you physically and neurologically changes you from the inside out and all of that austin in your situation is means that your marriage is already awesome and it's about to get a little better yes that's what we're saying and it's gonna be real uncomfortable for a minute right before it gets better there you go yeah as you write that check you make sure your hand may shake a little bit

and then six months later you're gonna be going yeah but this is the woman debt-free this is the woman i love that's beautiful daniel's in new york city hey daniel how are you daniel hello hi daniel hey dave and john

what's going on how are you better than we deserve sir how can we help uh thank god um so i've been a listener for a couple years already you know i listen daily really keeps you motivated and moving in the right direction thank you but um but yeah of course so i

set myself up i think i'm in a good spot i have some money saved up in the past couple years of working and i wanted to know how what i can do to really be setting myself up for success okay are you working you're in college how old are you what's your story i'm in college i have about a year left okay what are you studying business management good for you okay what's it gonna cost to finish

um no i have a college fund that's taking care of that and i have some scholarships as well so great what's it gonna cost to finish not sure exactly probably another

two semesters so you don't know what a semester costs maybe like another 25 to 50 000 here's

25 each method what the crap are you going to school yeah on mars

where are you going to school in the city is it a secret it's a secret is it a secret school what's the name of your school what

say it again it's not such a large

school so i'd rather not stay okay all right it's a very small very expensive school in new york city it's a spy school day yes okay well it's a secret school all right so the um all right so uh you think you have enough money in the college fund and in scholarships to finish how much money do you have saved that you're worried about investing uh like 250. 250

000 yeah spy school's paying pretty good

this is pretty neat i'm way in the wrong job i should have been what in the world are you doing where did you get 250 000

i mean i've been working since like all throughout high school since i'm like 14. i worked really hard in high school and i had like 250 dollars exactly 11. where did you what did you do i just i never is it a secret what you did you were a spy in high school weren't you and now you're in spy school and now you're rich dude i was so

impressed we're picking on you these numbers are bizarre way to go well here's the thing the standard answer here is this and i'll stick with the standard answer although these numbers are not standard um congratulations you're obviously a young stud oh kidding aside awesome you're you got scholarships you've made a lot of money already i never saw 250 i could lord that's amazing good for you so proud for you so your first goal is graduate you

are the secret sauce to success graduate with no debt you think you've got that figured out you probably do have that figured out you probably have enough money in your account with your scholarships and your college fund to do that i really don't care if you invest 150 000 for the next one year that is not going to change your life going finishing this school with zero debt

and launching yourself with zero debt into the marketplace is going to change your life and understanding that you are the secret sauce here not the interest on 250 000 for one year

dave would you recommend a 23 year old with that kind of money to launching and buy a house or would you even recommend this high school to chill yeah get out of school because when you graduate from school you have a high rate of uh transition correct

you don't you often change cities you obviously start a new job a real job and the chances of changing you know he probably ought to keep doing what he's doing but um the uh uh and it's not unusual get

married right in that in within 18 months of that right so statistically not everybody you don't have to it's not like a rule you're not doing something wrong if you don't there's some there's some research that says men especially do everything all at once right that one year following school and that takes some money and you probably are going to end up in the same city you're in a high statistical average you're going to end up in her city [Laughter] or is

there any data on you take a job right out of college what's the chances you're still in that job five years later yeah very low okay that's what i would think these days in the old days it was but these days you the average person has 17 jobs in their working lifetime okay so you got the turnover but dude you're you've done so well daniel you're going to be all right

i think you're going to struggle through with your quarter million dollars yeah you're going to figure it out and if y'all need any extra spies daniel you know a guy you you always wanted to be a spot i always wanted to be a spy when it pays like that i'm telling you bond in high school man i had no idea james bond was so loaded he drank well

but man i didn't know it was a good high school he's had a good car but we thought it was a government car i made i thought i was killing it making 20 bucks a lawn in high school daniel just embarrassed me man well he said 250 i didn't know what he meant that's quite a goal danny for you daniel we're we're we're having some fun buddy

but my only because i'm jealous yeah exactly and we're just freaked out but yeah you did really good man so graduate graduate graduate graduate graduate debt free then become an investor then start your life don't get in too big a hurry you're not missing out on compound interest by being out of the market for one year making sure you graduate graduate graduate debt-free you are the secret sauce

you are the best investment you can make this is the ramsey show

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dr john dolone ramsey personalities my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage baby mike and laci are here hey guys how are you good how are you good how are you dave good how do we where do you all live uh we live in northern new york all right very cool welcome all the way to nashville to do a debt-free scream you can see uh canada from our backyard ah literally that's how fun

we are well at least it's not russia all right so you're not a palin are you but go ahead so uh how much debt have you paid off

a hundred and four thousand all right how long did this take one day more than two years we had to wait for payday i'll take it i'm going to round that down to two years and your range of income during that time uh we started out at 90 000 and we went up to 172 000

and then we went down to 173 because of the pandemic oh yeah good gracious you doubled your income so what kind of day uh what kind of debt was this uh we had five of the zero percent promotions because we thought we were really smart you showed them right yeah we had my car

we had a camper and then we each had student loans how y'all were like normal yeah we were paying on a deck for a house that we didn't even live in anymore oh that hurts yeah i was like it has to go i don't think it really helps and then they get real mad if you go sit on it after you don't live there anymore they don't like

if you park your camper that you're paying on in the driveway right yeah in the winter time oh no that hurts looking out at it with snow on top what do you guys do for a living uh i'm a certified professional boudoir photographer okay and i'm a director of case management i'm a nurse oh very cool good for you guys so how did you double your incomes uh

i cranked up the work i just took on more work and invested in my education and just kind of took off wow what about you um well i've kind of scaled the entire time in my career so you got the opportunity to take on overtime like crazy right yeah oh yeah especially especially in 2020 yeah actually during the pandemic my business was shut down and he had to take a 20 pay cut

because the hospital wasn't you know having all the elective surgeries and whatnot so yeah plus i'm salary so there's no such thing as overtime for sale oh i'm sorry oh my gosh okay wow all right so what started this journey two years ago i got you guys so fired up uh well i actually had heard about you from um an educator that i followed and i saw your your book in

the thrift store and i was like why not you know i've spent it's a dollar yeah it's a dollar it was two but that's okay the cover was flashy it caught our eye wow good looking gown people i think dave ramsey they think flashy yeah that's what that's what comes to mind exactly i think um

we've we've kind of had this concept in our head the entire time that we've been together but we we call it we did like dave ramsey light yeah we didn't really know where we were going or what we were doing but we knew that um not being in debt was kind of where we needed to be so although we've over time we've had cards and things like that

we never carried a balance we knew at different times that when we had debt we had to pay it down so we've tried over the years we just never had a clear path how long you all been married so uh 17 years what so what actually in your brain what do you think was there an event or a certain thing that happened that caused you to just flip

the switch and go i'm all in let's do this um yeah no it just was like we i picked

the book up and i was like okay this sounds like a good idea you know like he had said we uh you know we had the idea in our head and we just didn't know where we were going so once i read the book i was like oh yeah this is we just made a couple little tweaks and like that's what we needed she read it then

i read it and we were sold and we were like let's do this so just the total money makeover and game on yeah wow and then i listen to your podcast every day we were believers anyways prior to that we just needed that path we needed those stories we needed that guidance to be able to be on the right you know right trajectory so there was no big drum roll moment where one of

you presented this to the other it was just hey i'm i'm in you're in let's let's get up well she did it first yeah she really absorbed it she's you know she's the reader she's the the studier and she kind of you know planned this out and then kind of brought me on board um and and that's where we bought into the you know the whole concept that

you know this is a plan we need to be on love i'm definitely the nerd so i found a calculator online and i was like we could pay off our debt really quick let's do this yeah and so it was really easy to get them on board wow congratulations i'm so proud of y'all you're impressive thank you very very well done very well done now that you're professionals

you paid off a hundred and four thousand in two years

uh what's the secret to getting out of debt america wants to know uh i think it was really automating um so every time we got paid i just automatically put the money right into a debt account and you know we just clicked the button we actually didn't do the budget for a long time until this last april when i was like i'm bored let's do something uh

and so then once we started doing that i was like wow we have a lot more money now wow you don't realize what's there until you start like what you say crunching the numbers and you realize it's almost like money begets money yeah it's there but but when you start managing your money and you start accounting for every penny it seems like there just is more it feels like more

it feels like you got a raise absolutely and it's amazing feeling really for that to happen like that so yeah congratulations you guys who were your biggest cheerleaders um probably my parents and um you know i

have a couple a couple friends that were you know kind of cheering me on we'd make you know every time i would make a big sale or something we'd get like a cash fan and be like yes we are you know that much closer to paying off our student loans or whatever we were on so it was it was uh we did have a lot of people around us that were really supportive

and she's an entrepreneur she you know didn't really start off by herself you know knowing what she wanted to do but i was kind of the cheerleader behind her to say you can do this so i was living vicariously through her in terms of her her entrepreneurial spirit and it was really nice to watch that and you know encouraging her along the way um you know and that's why obviously our income increased a lot

i think we wouldn't be where we are right now if it wasn't for the work that she did in her business wow the blood sweat and tears you know building it from the ground up um you know reading the business books late at night and just trying to figure out how to make things work and she's how far are you in now five or six years yes i've been a photographer for 13 years

but i've been doing um my business for six now congratulations you guys how many things in the world make me happier than listening to a husband describing how proud he is of his wife yeah that's beautiful man that's awesome thank you well done very proud of her so how did this help your marriage uh yeah we definitely had to you know be on the same page and

i i think we were just competing to see who could make more money because you know i would do well and then he'd get a raise and it was it was great i think it was very exciting actually i think it helped our marriage in terms of that because you know for us to do this journey and then of course we've been trying to inspire people along

the way and describing what this is all about we've handed out books you know we're we're always thinking one step ahead you know how to how to be forward thinking you know getting on to those next steps um and so that's that's how we got us very cool and you brought the kiddos to do the debt-free screen what are their names and ages uh we have andrew he's eight

and we have evelyn she is six all right very cool well we've got a copy of the legacy journey which is my last book i did uh on what happens now what are you going to leave a legacy now change the family tree so give you a copy of that and take care of you so thank you guys for making the trip all the way from new york we're

so proud of you you're incredible people very very well done all right mike and lacey andrew and evelyn from

new york 104 000 paid off in two years

making 90 to 172 to 163.

count it down let's hear a debt free scream three three two one we're dead free

i love it i love it i love it i love it

that's the first one that's the first macklemore thrift store uh debt free scream i've heard of man that's incredible what what a fortuitous walk through a thrift store man two dollar book yeah that's a good roi on that purchase yeah that old total money makeover for two dollars slightly used slightly it was shiny because somebody spilled something on it so uh hey but then they turned into proselytizers

and they've been buying books and handing them out man i tried i made out on that so i think what we should do is start just putting some coffee a few books in the thrift store i like it because it leads to more book sales this is a new marketing plan yes james is going to be right on that yeah get on that james make that happen send kelly out to

the thrift stores right now that's perfect well done you guys very very proud of you you guys are incredible well that's how you do it you work together that you know and they kept saying over and over they really didn't do anything different except start paying attention and make every dollar behave and then every time they dialed in that much more and made every dollar behave they got that much more mileage out of

it and it accelerated the process this is the ramsey show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones triple h 825-5225

mark is with us in boston hey mark welcome to the ramsey show thanks dave really appreciate how you doing better than i deserve how can we help yeah so i'll uh i'll throw a little back story here i'm currently an undergraduate student um full-time enrolled i have a full tuition scholarship i'm also a resident advisor so i don't play room and board either so i actually uh i net nothing at the end of each semester um recently i just bought a car um i have about ten thousand dollars in debt on that um

there's a obviously a large push from the left pushing for uh student loan forgiveness so i was wondering what your thoughts would be on um pulling out student loans again

and transferring paying off my

car with those loans with student loans and possibly getting the chance to have my car loan that is now student loan forgiven so i'm a taxpayer and i'm supposed to pay off your car with your student loan forgiveness don't you think that's immoral

yeah a little bit but at the same time it's um yeah a little bit it's if the opportunity is there um if the government's gonna be deciding to start handing out money left and right why not take the yeah so um let me tell you the the there was a book out several years ago called millionaire next door by a man named tom stanley who passed away it came out in 1992.

he did a book later called the millionaire mind the millionaire next story studied millionaires the millionaire mind he studied people that had 10 million dollars deck of millionaires and he looked for the character he looked for the correlating statistical points he was a researcher and people that had 10 million or more

and um he found demographic similarities

he found uh career similarities and he found 38

statistical points of reference that

indicated that they were causal that indicated that if you had a large number of these you would have a high indicator that you were heading towards 10 million or more and he listed them in order of the of you know the first one in other words number one was the most often occurring 38 was the least often occurring out of the 38 points you understand what i'm saying and let me tell you what number one was fanatical levels of integrity

you need to visit that and sit on that

because when you do not have fanatical levels of integrity you are missing the number one correlating data point towards become building wealth

versus how much can i scam the american taxpayer out of and get me a free car dude that's just wrong yeah it's just wrong

so no you should not do that a a a

really important mentor of mine posed an important question back in my 20s and the question was this is

integrity something you can sort of have you can mostly have and that has just sat and sat inside me for a long long time because i lived some of my life thinking yeah i mean mostly you know and here's the thing dave

that bill's gonna come do for all of us

it's gonna come do for all of us there's just no you you don't nobody gets rich scamming the government the taxpayers no it's just you don't get wealthy that way you know you don't get wealthy trying to you know run a welfare scam you don't get worse you don't run you don't get wealthy running up uh unemployment scam you don't get wealthy scamming the you know hiding your grandpa's assets

so you can get a government-funded medicaid nursing home which is illegal as crud it's called welfare fraud but people do it every day and so stealing is not a part of integrity why do you think decca millionaires what what's the correlation there i don't know a lot of deca millionaires uh the ones that i know anecdotally align up with that i mean everybody knows so you know any group of people

you put them in the room and there's there's idiots in everybody there's a there's a jerk right there's somebody that doesn't have integrity so not all deca millionaires do but there's a high correlation of that that when they interviewed their wife when they interviewed their kids when they interviewed their employees when they interviewed their competitors in the marketplace they said you know i always agree with that guy

but one thing about it if he says it's raining you better get your umbrella you know if he says if he says he's going to lease hell on you you better get ready because hell's coming you know you better whatever he says he's going to do he's going to do and so uh there's fanatical levels of integrity and and i think it's because most things in this world move on

the speed of trust i was gonna say i think you could probably stumble and grit and grind and cut and cheat your way to three million dollars but to get 10 you got to have other people walking alongside you got to have somebody else lifting with you if they don't trust you yeah and trust is just a it's a mammoth thing uh and yeah how you get trust well you're unbelievably consistent

and you know the word integrity comes uh

from the same root word that we get the word integer from okay or integral okay and so the word

integer if you're a math nerd you know that an integer is a whole number it has no fraction to it it's not 1.5 it's not 1.25 it's a whole it's two one three it's whole

and integrity is whole the whole person

and it's not like well i don't you know i don't cheat on my wife but i do cheat on my taxes you know you know you're just a freaking cheat it's just a matter of time before it's revealed somewhere else it's because it's that hole and the the interesting thing about this is the reason i'm wearing this young man out is uh directly and indirectly and people in our audience simultaneously is that it's a choice you can grow up

being a cheat and just decide i'm done yeah characters in the bible jacob i'm done jacob did it yeah he was known as the deceiver in the bible and then he became a man of integrity you can just say as of today i have integrity you can just decide yeah you can't decide i'm beautiful you can't decide to grow hair i've tried but you can just decide i'm gonna have integrity that's gonna tell

the truth i'm gonna be a man i'm gonna be a woman that can be counted on and so i you know i i you know once i got all that dialed into my head like you know what i pay all my taxes every stinking dime i owe exactly we don't have a side set of books like we don't count the cash we count the cash the cash is part of

the profit it's taxable income in america when you make a cash profit on something you can hide it but i you but the but the law says and my integrity says when i sign that tax return that it's real now i hate taxes and i don't pay a dime more than i have to and i spend money with accountants trying to legally use everything in the law to not pay

it right but once i know what's owed i it's every if

if i ever get audited come on over be a hot knife through butter because it's it's all right there baby i got nothing to hide and my guess is your heart rate runs a little lower yeah you're sleeping you sleep at night you know the whole thing you know i don't have to remember what i don't have to try to remember what i said because whatever i said was what

i said right huh you know it's like we were digging around in the warehouse we closed up a warehouse this week and they brought some of the old files over and i found a file in there i was going through them this morning with my assistant trying to figure out what to throw away and there's a file from 1999 with hate mail and um she she gets all my hate mail

anyway you know because they mail it and comes here and so she's like this is the same thing they say right now they hate you for exactly the same reason that they did in 1999 i think we need to we need to read it on the show oh i do need to do i'll bring the file down next week we'll do that yeah that's a good idea

but you know i'm unbelievably consistent i'm even hated for the same reason next week we're going to do an episode on my show james of just that 40 minutes of reading letters it's going to be fantastic we're all going to feel better about ourselves well we used to do read mean tweets but now that's all there are so it will be all you have to do is open

it nice tweets that's right because they're the rare ones there's three of them that's right three twitter is troll land but you know the the thing is that that

once as a young guy i figured out

reading these people and understanding these people and it became a part of my faith walk too to tell the truth to be the truth to to be consistent it does get easier it's hard in the moment i mean he's got ten thousand dollars in debt now yeah that might have might have gone away if biden makes it go make student loans go away but um that's like fraud yeah

it it you know if you if you hide assets

so that you can get government money yeah that's illegal and my my challenge with the bailout besides the fact that we don't have the money is dave i i didn't understand what i was signing my wife and i signed for a lot but at the end of the day i signed my name on a piece of paper and said i'll pay you back yeah you know what

i mean that's all that's wrestled in my that's just been in me it's old school told you i'll pay you back i will yeah yeah my challenge with it is i it doesn't bother me much it's just quit making the stinking loans if you're gonna forgive them it's intellectually dishonest you plug the hole first right yeah that's just why are you making them if they're so dadgum bad stop making them

and then we'll talk about the rest of them this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsay personality host of the dr john delony podcast which is uh unbelievably popular these days i

guess it actually is believable but it's not i don't believe it i've got like 11 friends and my mom and well that started your base and it has exceeded and they have they have all told six people each and so we got it going my mom hits refresh a lot and i thought that was just it but it's no it's actually a thing it's more than that you've become a thing dude it's happened right here at ramsey

we watched it happen so check it out if you want to hear about life and mental health and boundaries and relationships it's all dr john dolone show and you will leave a lot of things but board will not be one of them and so check it out we'd love to have you there and his best-selling book redefining anxiety as well so we're here to help you with your life your money your mental health questions your relationship questions your life your money all of that is woven in

there together kim is with us to start off this particular hour in roanoke west virginia hi kim how are

you with every virginia hey kim how are you virginia i'm good thank you so much for taking my call i need some education and some advice okay i am 51 years old

my husband's 57 more debt free except for the house we finally got our emergency fund fully funded which means we were able to start our roth this week which brought us up to 15 we owe 170 000

on the house and my question and because i don't know a lot about whole life policies we have two um one

is worth twenty six thousand cash value and one's fourteen thousand and i want to know if we should take those and put them against the principle of that 170 000 and how that works okay uh

well life insurance is a crummy place to

invest money it is not for an investment it's for replacing one of your incomes if one of you dies to help the other one get along we have terms you have enough term insurance in place my husband's dad is a state farm agent he got him his whole life policies a long long long time ago we have term insurance 600 000 on him 300 000 on me so state farm yeah no that's a different

company through through our financial advisor oh okay

okay good well um your husband's uh

dad is still living yes yes

okay he may not understand but i would cancel those okay he likely won't understand but he's yeah but that's not relevant to the conversation this stuff's it's crap it's absolute crap and so you're better off to have your money going into things that are going up in value and that have a good rate of return and um you know and get the you know get the cash value out while

you can because if you die whatever cash value is in there stays with the insurance company state farm keeps it they only pay the face amount of a policy that's how whole life works that's one of the reasons it's such a rip-off so um you do want to go ahead and get rid of that you may have some relationship issues in the midst of doing that but

you need to get rid of it so folks here's the way this works whole life life insurance is roughly 20 times more expensive for the same amount of insurance nationally that's the averages so what

you can buy for five dollars a month in term cost you a hundred dollars a month in whole life but dave it's such a great investment and the other 95 dollars that is not going to insurance then goes into an investment right and so let's learn the rules of the investment the first thing that happens is the first three years of a whole life policy your cash value is zero so you invested

95 a month in our example for three years and you have nothing

that's called a front loaded financial product if you're being kind it's called getting screwed if you're not then once you do get money in there and it starts building up the average whole life policy in this nation today pays 1.2 percent interest and this is a long-term

retirement plan investment which by the way the consumer price index was 4.2 for the last 74 years meaning inflation so if you're not making at least four percent of your money you're not keeping up with inflation so you're losing money when you save money long term at one percent that's after you lost all your money for the first three years but after all of that if you do it for years and years and years and years and years years and you finally have 20 000 in

this 40 or 50 000 whole life policies or cash value build up that you paid an extra 95 dollars a month for all these years and then you die your fifty thousand dollar policy with a twenty thousand dollar savings in it that you've paid twenty times extra per month to get pays

fifty 50 000

what happened to your 20 oh they keep it

we gifted it to the insurance company yeah because we're just those kind of people we wanted a bigger shinier building in our downtown we needed another tower you know dave when you first told me this several months ago i even got over the dismal return

what i didn't get over it's just driven me crazy when i'm driving home by myself they keep your money is that they go invested at 12 and they keep the 11 gap oh yeah they yeah because most of your shopping malls and so forth are financed the mortgage company on major commercial projects is life insurance companies they they loan money back out into real estate as a mortgage company

and make you know eight ten twelve on it wherever in there and so uh but aside from that so you have a banking system where you bought term insurance for five dollars you put 95 dollars into a savings program that for the first three years they keep your money after that they pay you 1.2 percent and when you die they keep your savings account now what kind of idiot would have a savings account like that none

but of course it's never explained to you that way by those people because they sell this crap so there's only two people that sell whole life life insurance ignorant people that don't understand it who are actually good kind sweet people they're just ignorant because that's exactly how it works or

crooks because if you understood that and you sell it anyway you're crook by definition and so um

that means that sweet little lady's sweet little father-in-law i just called him a crook but oh well or are ignorant he's more than likely just ignorant though most of those guys i know in that world they're this to make sure they see that money they'll make sure they mainly sell they mainly sell homeowners and car insurance and so then that you know their company has whole life

and they they get them tied up into this and they make good money because you get paid in the insurance world you get paid on premium and so if the premium's 20 times more your commission's 20 times more so of course they're going to go oh i think that's really good stuff you know but no one in the entire

financial community not a single person anywhere in the financial world today recommends cash value life insurance except people that sell it

none of the rest of us none of us that have you know that are independent people in the investment world you know they tell you get you you do need life insurance but you need to get term insurance people anywhere else any kind of study you do any kind of formal academic study you do anything unless it's from the whole life world unless it's from the people who sell

it they don't tell you to buy it because it's absolutely the payday lender of the middle class is there any data that shows that people buy that more than term oh yeah they buy a lot more than that i feel like everyone i know has whole life yeah and the reason you know why they buy it more in terms because they're sold more pushed more than the term yeah

i mean until until 15 20

years ago term insurance and nobody talked about it hardly this was like this was the you know but if you go into every major city in america that in the skyline is banks intern and life insurance companies i wonder how that happened santa claus didn't build those buildings you did people this is the ramsay show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us america this is the ramsey show common sense for your dollars and cents teaching people to live on less than they make a concept congress can't grasp lydia is with us in columbia missouri hey lydia how are you fine thank you how are you doing today better than i deserve how can we help you um my husband and i are currently renting and our rent and spies roughly by july

this year we've been planning to buy our own home and we started listening to your program less than two or three months

and we want to buy our own home because our kids are here to join us we are immigrants i joined my husband about two years ago in the pandemic or before the pandemic and i started working not long ago our income for the year

it's about 150 160 my husband makes over

100 and i make about 30 000.

we have car loans my husband has student

loans we have irs debt our total debt is 125.

uh our question is you've been here he's been here three years or you've been here three years i have been here two years he has been here 20 years 20 10 10.

okay i was thinking man he got car debt and irs debt pretty quick okay wow okay so

now where which uh which country are you immigrating from uh ghana africa wonderful and uh

is this a permanent citizenship or green card or what i am on green card he's permanent resident okay all right wonderful so you'll be able to get your citizenship then right yes yes wonderful awesome well welcome we're glad you're here all right and what do you guys do for a living um he's a nest and i'm also a nurse as well

but i am a medical assistant he's unless in the fight field gotcha and how old are your children our son is 21

daughter is eight 15. our two little

ones 10 and eight and they're all in africa

one is here one is my step my husband had a child out with someone when he was here without me and then i have a natural fat i have two kids he has two back home but we both are out of our first marriages so we we have been together less than five years i understand okay and the um

so you're you're you could rent a home for the children that would live in your home if they were to move here correct yes okay that's what you need to do you need to get out of debt first build your emergency fund of three

to six months of them expenses second and then then start saving

to buy a home when you buy a home with all this debt hanging around your neck and with no emergency savings the home will end up being more of a curse than a blessing it is not a uh it is it is home ownership when you're broke is a bad thing it will get you it will bite you um and so you've got you've got good incomes uh

he has had some bad he's developed some bad american habits with money i hear them in the mistakes he's made you may have participated in a couple of those but you got car debt you got irs debt you got some other things you need to clean up here because that's that's a mess and then save your emergency fund for a rainy day and then and then do

this so what i want to do is i want to help you with this because i'm inspired by your story we have a class called financial peace university we have a budgeting app called every dollar the premium version of every dollar in financial peace university are all included in what's called ramsey plus a one-year membership

to that to be able to watch those videos go through this financial class you and your husband do that together obviously we charge a hundred dollars for all of that per year if i give it to you as a gift will you

promise me that you and your husband will do everything in there yes you will

i think you might so you hold on and i'll give it to you kelly will pick up and we'll get you signed up um that's pretty cool that's super cool and i love how you framed that you've picked up some bad american habits you don't do that in ghana that's hey man you don't have irs debt and car debt in ghana no it's it's the truth right it's

the truth it's a it's a cultural thing i mean there's there are countries that do the same stupid butt stuff we do australia they're about as you know uk

you know england about as stupid as we are on stuff like this or dumber in some cases but uh as a culture but um you know you can observe these things in different cultures the way people handle money the way they see money it has a lot to do with a lot of different factors economic factors and other things but you know what's interesting is if they get their act together

they have a higher probability of becoming wealthy than someone that's born here why do you think that is i think they believe that it's a land of opportunity and some of us aren't sure we just don't believe it anymore we're waiting on somebody else to do it and that that all they wanted was a chance a place that they could do it and they just see fields upon fields to go be killed right it's

the uh the land of opportunity not the land of and entitlement they see it that way they think the statue of liberty is real and um i do because i'm an old-fashioned american softy some of the coolest most inspirational folks i've i've been around in my in my in my educational career was international students who'd come over and say you're telling me i can get a law degree here

you tell me i can go to med school you're telling me i can go to walmart and they have seven kinds of game on yeah let's do this man this is the land of abundance yeah yeah gift upon gift upon gift two aisles

of cookies yeah what do you mean you gotta be kidding me yeah it's it's real

john's in arlington virginia hey john welcome to the ramsay show yes sir thank you um thank you

hi david hi john hi how can we help

uh so i have a question i'm on a baby

step six of your book um i have uh

network is about one 1.8 million way to

go free all right thank you um

i didn't think it happened uh so network

i'm debt free um definitely have an emergency fund my mortgage is uh 381

000 left on it and

i'm considering there's out of my brokerage accounts um there's one fund that has about 314

000 in it and i'm wondering if i should sell that to pay off my mortgage um it's returning about 13

percent and how old are you

okay where'd it go did you uh did you inherit any of this 1.8 million um i inherited nine thousand nine thousand dollars yeah that's the greatest answer

so you did what's been your income through your working life here um so when i was 20

it was down like somewhere some years 50

dollars and to 100 to a couple thousand i had uh

what's been your best year what'd you make your very best year ever 160 okay what's your career field

uh and uh software consulting way to go

i'm so proud of you man awesome man so here's the way you answer the question there's a an old thing from the harvard investment newsletter that's called sunk cost analysis and you just reverse engineer your question and it'll answer it for you if your home was paid off and you did not have this investment com brokerage would you go borrow on your paid for home and put 300 000 in a brokerage account

no same thing

every day that you don't pay this off you borrowed it again

yeah so what that question does though is it also causes you you're telling me about the 13 rate of return and all that crap so that's the math side of your brain the other side of your brain called your heart is where you measure risk and when i suggested that you borrow on your paid for home it kind of puts your stomach in your throat a little bit

and that means that you all of a sudden started measuring the risk of this you're not going to go bankrupt and you're not going to foreclose down you're worth 1.8 million dollars you've done you've done it dude you're good but this is just a measurement of peace when your head lays on the pillow at night pay off your house today sir this is the ramsey show

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thank you for joining us america dr john deloney is my co-host today here on the air uh you can add hope to your inbox hope

to your inbox with ramsey newsletter whether you're on baby step one two three four five six or seven it's packed with actionable guidance on up-to-date ways to save money stay on a budget invest smarter give more every week we walk with you as you tackle debt as you build your savings plus you'll never miss the latest articles shows products from ramsey solutions of course it's free you can subscribe to the ramsey newsletter today at ramseysolutions.com

newsletter our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more the promo code is ramsey all right today's question comes from robbie in california at age five i started piano lessons and five years later i got a job playing at a restaurant on weekends i was paid 60 bucks a night plus tips

my dad said that since i was a minor he would save the money for me when i started college and asked for the funds i learned all the money was gone i know the account had over eight thousand dollars in it how do i move on from the trauma of this and develop a healthy relationship with money i don't think the relationship problem here is with money i think you got to say what your dad did sucks and there's a period at the end of that sentence and then you got to move on um

i'd add one more sentence what he did sucks he sucks yeah he stole it from his kid what a scumburger stole from his kid

and let me tell you it'll just tell you when i say that everybody goes yeah but when this young man hears me say that or you say that it's hard for him to hear it's hard to hear your dad is a bad guy oh yeah your mom's a bad lady because we jump in and want to defend him well i mean it's just it's just that's it's against our nature to think that

the person that's supposed to take care of you screwed you over yeah but you got you got to say it i often tell people to write it down and put a period into that sentence yeah and then you got to feel it and it

hurts and then you got to go make a decision what you're gonna do next yeah and so you know what are your takeaways from this you how do you defeat the

emotional scars and trauma you have to intellectually get above them and uh then you feel them yeah you got

to feel them yeah but getting above them is it's not a pr it's not a money problem it's a dad problem it's a dead problem and so what do you walk away from this learning uh well hey you're good at the piano uh people will pay you for it yeah uh b you uh you know you have the ability to make money and save money works hard yeah you got a good work ethic i mean 10 years old he's at the pianos i'm reading that right five plus five yeah yeah and so um uh uh

don't trust your dad with money yeah we're not gonna give him any money yeah i'm not gonna trust him with much anything really yeah um you know just uh five minutes of our time maybe but i'm not not gonna leave my kid there yeah either uh you can't trust him stealing i don't know what else i can trust him with so i mean he be there with my kid but not leave my

kid there by myself by himself so um i wouldn't um not tell this is not so

something some kind of noticeable change in the old man's life because he's crook yeah um then uh the other thing is

is that you probably learned a lesson that you do want to learn and that is you don't trust other people to take care of your money now when you're 10 you're supposed to yeah he's a child but but you can take that away and go you know when i'm 40 i'm not going to let someone take care of my money blindly that's right i'm going to always be involved i'm going to always know where my money is i'm always going to understand

it um no one's got like power of attorney so you know i'm in nashville we're in nashville and over the years i've become friends with a lot of uh folks in the music business they get scammed they just and the stories of the guys

that are you know 60 70 years old and how they got scammed when they were making big hits because they turned everything over it's like an athlete and they knew this guy yeah and i loved him and he hung out with my kids and my family and 100 million dollars later he took a lot of my money yeah i don't have any money because i turn it over to him like

this kid turn it over to his dad you have to do that when you're ten you don't have to do that when you're adults so it's a good it's a good takeaway and that's not being bitter or that's not being toxic or something you know i don't trust anymore because of my father no you just don't you know it's your job to manage the money and understand what it's doing

you can help get advice from people but you can't get a babysitter for your money so there's been some i've been doing a lot of reading on trauma the last few years dave and um there's two guys dr peter levine and another guy named dr bessel vanderkolt they have a description of trauma that was transformative for me and it was it's less about the issue

and more about your body's response in the present to that issue so what i would tell this young man is

when he's about to do something related with money and his heart starts racing just stop for a second and acknowledge oh my body's trying to take care of me and then you can say i'm good i appreciate your body taking care of me but i know what i'm doing now or i've got trust here or i've dug into this account or i'm and what you want to do is make peace with your body in

the present cause it's just trying to take care of you and it will take care of that little 10 year old kid for the rest of your life if you don't acknowledge it but we spend so much time trying to replay what has already happened try to edit that story you can't edit the fact your dad stole your money what you can do is learn to make peace with your body moving forward that's interesting your body reacts as

if the same event is happening again yes over and over it remembers to warn you that it could be happening again and that's why it's a warning mechanism all day every day and we even will fall into similar relationships to people who hurt us in the past because our body wants to correct it and fix it and we'll end up in the same situation over and over look

i remember when we were i was a little kid we were coming home from my grandmother's uh several mini like a 10 hour drive and uh

we came across the top of this hill two lane road and stopped because the guy was turning left in front of us guy came over the hill and plowed in the back of us i mean knocked us in the neck to total the car wow it was a bad car wreck and um it

i that was 50 years ago

and when somebody gets up on my bumper from behind now your heart takes off still feeling it takes off that's right that's the same thing and so there's a century there's a little part of your brain that's is going to scan your environment forever until you say oh there it is i'm good

i'm in a big raptor now right yeah i'm good yeah i'll win this exchange yeah yeah but it's just like oh i want to get one of those old people bumper stickers like get off my butt you know kind of thing get off my lawn you know yeah that kind of thing and uh it's just but it's all it's that it's associated with that trauma your body remembers that the name of the book is the body keeps the score right and so when think about when you uh like when

you're you know these guys are called up in their second marriage but their first wife blew all the money and stole everything and so they have trouble trusting the new wife and so dave we are in a culture that is so obsessed with new information and we can shove it all in a frontal lobe new facts but that part of our brain that's looking for threats is still running

and running lizard brain is real always running until you make peace with she walks in holding the checkbook and you go you gotta go hey she's different she's new she i trust her she ain't got the same name i trust her that's right i trust her she looks totally different yeah right and your body will begin to go okay cool just want to make sure that she's not a threat

and once you make peace with your body man that's when your body re you receive this healing from this trauma you know that's what happens when people get their emergency fund that's exactly right they've been living on the edge for so long that every stinking little thing was a crisis everything i mean every hangnail is a crisis when you're broke right i mean every little dinky 50 thing is a crisis

when you're broke but when you got ten thousand dollars in the bank it's an inconvenience it's annoying it's just an annoyance but when your emotions still go oh god oh god and we hear about people who get out of debt and they say i can't spend now that's it yeah because they've got a part of their brain saying you will never spend again because we remember what happened last time yeah

and you got to make peace with it yeah and that's when that's that's why you're coaching you can retrain it because i mean it requires it requires intellectually getting above it that's right and going wait facts are my friends as you always say yeah and so like you know but you can't you can't steamroll your feelings with you guys i mean like sharon when we went broke

she was terrorized by us being broke yep and so anytime we do anything that feels like the stuff we used to do like we might the alarm sets off and it's like whoa chill we've got money there's lots of zeros and comments we could just burn that much in the middle of the floor nobody will care so it's okay it's okay and she okay she has to have to revisit

it that's very interesting the human body is extraordinary at taking care of us wow this is the ramsey show

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they love alex is in santa clara california hi alex how are you good sir thank you for taking my call how are you better than i deserve what's up so my parents are what you might call

rock stars mom's a teacher dad's a cop and they are multi-millionaires just from doing all your stuff which means that when i went to college i went to this real fancy expensive school and they were able to cashflow the whole thing i i'm 24 now i can't help but feel like

i you know i want to pay them back somehow but i can't just cut them a check you know it's not like they're going to care about that so you know what kind of things can i do as a son you know to honor the gifts that they've given me and pay them back somehow get married and have babies and be a

good husband don't be an idiot

yeah you don't you don't give them they don't want money they don't need money uh let me tell you i got three kids that are successful uh have great marriages strong followers

of jesus that they're they're experts in their fields uh they're they're very giving and generous they're good moms and dads and they bring the grand babies over to see papa dave i don't need anything else from them dude that's everything that's the best way they can pay me back don't be screw-ups

is it really that simple it really is hey alex and i'll tell you i'll add one more um i can't believe it took me this long to do this as i was leaving my home state to move to nashville um i took a detour i drove about three

hours out of the way and i i called my dad and said hey would you like to meet for coffee as i'm leaving the state he said sure and i had a moment to look him in the eye over coffee and i just said hey i need you to know something you did a great job and i'm so glad i'm your son and

that was an exchange that i should have had 20 years ago 15 years ago 10 years ago man you can't pay the light bill with that but i think my dad he walked about six inches taller after that and i think every dad wants to hear from their kids i'm grateful for you and man as a 24 year old your roi is money how can i pay you back

man letting them know yeah i'll tell you grateful for your if your dad if your dad is your hero tell him to his face give him a hug a front hug front hug front cut your dad

don't be weird about it do it and you

know and every so and every so often just go you know if you want to spend some money uh you know buy a couple airline tickets and go on a blank trip whatever it is you do hunting trip golf trip i don't care and that kind of stuff i i

you know my sons and i and uh my my son

son-in-law's dads we all went on a big golfing trip this summer all together and that was that was more fun than i can think of doing anything so those kinds of things i have breakfast every tuesday morning with my son who is one of our senior vice presidents here and runs a big portion of this company and um he and i have breakfast here every morning every tuesday morning seven o'clock if i'm in town he's in town and um you know we talk about everything

uh business kids everything all of them down and it's just that that stuff is more important dude than you buying them a thingy but here's the thing the fact that alex at 24 is thinking about the character part

how can i let these two important people know that i love them tells me he was raised right yeah beyond the fact that his parents didn't make a ton of money but they still figured out how to be millionaires so schoolteacher and a cop that's right yeah you're not making a ton of money in that house and i've lived with a schoolteacher and a cop but they taught this guy integrity and don't

guys life is a mist

it's a vapor i've never ever sat with somebody who said you know what i told my kid i loved him too much i told my dad i loved him too much say it again and again and again cat's in the cradle and a silver spoon right all right kevin in spokane washington hey kevin how are you i'm

but i deserve dave good how can we help

well i have a question and i mean uh i mean to the gist of it there's a lot of details to it but the gist is i've been working on lawn care for a long time and i've as most guys in the industry have thought about going off on my own start my own business and my wife and i kind of came to that decision over this last winter

and and we're kind of getting there so i guess my real question is like should i should i do it the slow way debt-free where you know i every i getting another couple customers every year and i save up and i buy equipment and then i do it that way or i mean we both really

decided to do this full-time that if i should take a business loan and get the equipment i need to really get started uh you know beginning yeah how long have you been listening to this show hi kevin i'd like to introduce you to my friend dave ramsey how long you been watching the show well yes i mean long story short i actually know that's a simple question dude how long have

you been listening to the show uh about a month okay that's cool and so you've listened about 10 or 15 episodes or something okay that's fine but if you've been listening for two years it's a different answer so uh it's not as gentle and so um

we teach people not to borrow money because the shortest distance between where you are in wealth is debt-free right and so

um i started this business as 350 million dollars this year off a card table in my living room and every year we poured money back into it and grown it organically with organic cash flow we've never borrowed a dime um and uh you know so lots of times we

didn't go do something or buy something because we were investing back into ramsey and growing ramsey and it's worked out well for us so um you can do the same thing here so you start with the best equipment you can get with the cash you have and you work like a crazy man because

equipment is called overhead yeah and you know you so you always want to limit overhead in business you don't go buy the the guys in the loan business that have the biggest fanciest tractors are the ones that make the least money

well that's the point and uh you know if you go up on a construction site and there's seven pickups sitting there and there's three brand new ones that look like they're off a chevy commercial going through a mud puddle and there's two beat up ones the guys with the two beat up ones are millionaires the other two twerps can't make their payments friday

and this is how life works so that's what you do here you buy the least equipment that'll get the job done uh and as you make more and more and more money your equipment will be better and better that's fine and more and more equipment and you can run more than one crew and all that kind of stuff the good news is you know the business well enough that you're confident that you can grow it that's good and so but you can

the good news about lawn care is you can start it with very little money uh and you probably have the cash to buy that first tractor and little trailer and little pickup to pull it around and one weed eater and get her done baby i'd love to see him put a price everything out some good used equipment get a number and then sit down with his wife

and say let's go berserker mode for nine months 12 months get that number and get this number yeah and then you slow down a little bit but i want you to go bananas and get that and just not work or if it's two thousand dollars and you got two thousand dollars and you wanna dump it in there and go do it get after it right go get

it if you got the two thousand dollars laying there and but you don't need twenty thousand dollars to do this no people just overbuy to get going you don't well you're gonna buy the wrong stuff and it's gonna be different and you know i mean the computer world god man you know how fast our computers are out of date as soon as we unpack them out of

the box that's kind of the new thing you buy this whole shipment of computers you get them up you open them all you tear off that little piece of cellophane and then you just close them and put them back in the box and yeah they usually ship them to somebody else already done you know it's unbelievable so i mean i can't tell you how many times we've replaced computers in 30 years of running

this business wow i mean we just and they're just they're dust they're a door stop you know but

my dad's still using that same honda lawnmower he's had for 111 years well i mean equipment is equipment it's overhead and keep your overhead down if you're going to win in business i think you're going to do great kevin and i think you need to go do it but you do it with cash brother thank you for calling in that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the bugs

hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramsieshow.com thanks for listening

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today he's the host of the very popular dr john in dalloni podcast the popularity is going uh up and to the right it's hockey sticking the numbers are amazing so if you want to hear a really entertaining show about life and uh people's um questions about relationships and so forth he's there and he's here today to help you as well the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five speaking of calls

for dr john caleb's with us in austin texas hi caleb how are you good better than i

deserve how about you guys just the same sir how can we help figured uh well i'm calling on behalf of my amazing wife her and her mom had a falling out about probably about three years ago and i'm sorry say that again how long ago probably about three years ago three years ago okay yeah and it's still pretty uh pretty hectic

um and so my what does that mean

what does hectic mean uh it's not it's

not a good relationship um we so we had our son who just turned nine months uh they met once and our

the kind of the rules we have is not allowed at our house and my son's our son's not allowed over there and

it's it's just it's weighing heavy on my wife um so what do you feel i need to draw that's a hard boundary why'd you feel the need to draw that boundary it's it's uh it's just a cancerous

person i guess to say that be more specific you're talking pretty vague be specific something happened that said you cannot do that is a danger to your child yeah uh well

just the environment uh her boyfriend is not uh not

the best man in the world um she's just she's very negative she's always heard our marriage would laugh and tell people we're not going to laugh when my wife got pregnant and said uh you know that i wasn't going to stick around okay and we had a miscarriage and she just blew it off and my wife just recently asked her to uh if they could go to counseling and try and fix it and she was just like uh all things about it and it's just i mean it's just to me my kind of view

is if if the thought of being around someone stresses me out i just don't even want to deal with that that's easier said than when it's your mom and yeah and your your your wife has a picture in

her head of this new baby and her mom's a part of that and she had to draw boundaries for whatever reason i still don't fully get it but she had to draw some boundaries that doesn't include her so she's gonna agree i'm trying to understand just as a guy i'll let john talk a minute but but so your your mother-in-law's uh series of offenses are that she's a jerk

uh yeah and well i mean she done something other than has she done something other than just been a jerk to your wife uh no no like physical harm nobody i mean is she just like nasty and kind of mean

snarly snarly yeah and i mean there's a lot of uh ethical things that have gone on with like uh finances and stuff like that that i don't want to air out right um well like she stole from your wife

uh well from uh her father okay

she's just a person of no character right yes okay like so she only will talk to my wife when her boyfriend's out of town and then when her boyfriend comes back she doesn't respond to anything so what's the challenge is your wife just struggling with just putting a period at the end of that relationship and moving on yeah it's just yeah it eats her up inside yeah

and that's where i'm calling them that and like i'm just trying to you know i guess the man to me is just like well you know so long and for her it's harder and i'm just trying to figure out yeah it's her mom yeah that's her mom yeah you got to honor that don't go don't get in the trap of talking bad about her mom get in

the trash supporting her and loving her at some point she's gonna have to make the decision she's gonna have to put a peer at the end of that sentence her mom's never gonna do it with her because if she would you wouldn't be in the situation the first place so your wife's gonna have to decide to grieve this loss and then start creating a new picture that's gonna include her baby

you and whoever else but not mom and your wife's can do that on her own terms in her own time and that's frustrating and annoying if you're a husband who loves his wife and doesn't want to see her hurt but any time there's a separation from a mom like this it's just going to be hurt yeah it's going to be hard yeah especially let me throw out

something um the secret to happiness is low

expectations yeah and so um

if uh if

her mother had a

i'll just make up something i don't know something where let's say she had alzheimer's okay and when people get alzheimer's they generally either become much nicer than they used to be or much meaner than they used to be um my mother-in-law got alzheimer's and uh bless her soul she got nicer and um

uh and kept feeding the dog until the dog got fed fat i mean it was it was almost humorous and so because she forgets she fed the dog yeah so if you had someone like that you would not we were never looked at sharon's mom when she was going through that and said we we lowered our expectations of her because she was deficit

does that make sense yeah no that makes more i mean my expectations i don't think you do anyway yeah and i think your wife still has high mom expectations of a woman who can't deliver yeah and so if she lowered her expectations and just said pretend like mom has alzheimer's and she's a little nutty because she's a little nutty dude the woman you just described is like oscar

the grouch yeah and she's really not it she's really not got her crap together mentally this woman doesn't but i can see the challenge between someone with alzheimer's and saying this person's got i know but i'm saying if you if you if you're i'm talking about his wife if she

said instead of hoping mom is going to be all super moms oh she's never going to be i know instead said let's treat her as if she's deficit because she is gotcha if you and you just go oh that's just my crazy mother this is just your mother it's just my crazy mother that's just my crazy mother yeah i mean and then you don't then you don't get all tore up about

it because she the reason my the girl's getting all tore up about it she keeps thinking mom's gonna come through she's got she's got this picture am i wrong um yeah but i think i think that i think that that having lower

expectations isn't gonna make her feel good she's still gonna have to be she's still gonna have to grieve that thing that mom's never gonna come through like that i don't disagree with that yeah but i'm saying if every one of these conversations it's like my mom did it again well what did you expect yeah yeah yeah yeah if you if the rattlesnake's gonna bite you right that's

it the stinking snake bites so don't be when they start you know when that little tail starts wiggling and making that little noise you just get back you know caleb let me ask you this are you in a place have you all backed yourselves into a corner with an either or that was a little bit over the top or do you feel good about it um and i'll ask

you this i know a lot of first-time parents who who make these big declarations you can't come into my home unless you've you've showered in lysol and wash your hands and by third kid you know the kid's walking in with a handful of dog do and nobody cares right have you all first kitted this situation where you have you've made these declarations yeah and i don't know my mindset is

if you have to hide seeing my son then why like why why are we even going to be around that type of person no disagree with you yeah well

yeah it's the bottom line is there's a lot of heartbreak for your wife it's very hard for her um crazy mom's

just gonna be crazy you're looking at it very like ah that's what it is and it's just it's it's her mom you can't take that loose that there's still that umbilical cord in the spiritual world be gentle with your grieving man i'll send you a copy of henry cloud's book called boundaries he's a friend of john's and mine and it's a world-class book on this subject hold on i'll send you a copy of it

what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five when it comes to making big money or life moves like buying a home or getting married or having a baby it's likely the last thing on your mind to make sure you have the right insurance coverage i get it big changes have a lot of details but what would be even more overwhelming is to find yourself in a situation where

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you got to do is text the word insurance 233 789 text insurance

233-789 rodney's in rochester minnesota hi rodney how are

you good yourselves better than i deserve what's up hey um just recently been listening to

you um got a couple questions on

where i'm at with my job being a union member we have what um you know everyone knows

there's a pension and we also have an annuity and i've been in the trade for seven years now um they send us statements

now listening to you i'm kind of picking apart when my statement comes and what they're investing our money into good i'm kind of break kind of to break it down uh you

recommend 15 um last year alone and made a hundred and like 111 000 so a little over 15 000

a year and hours worked last year out of you know our package they take six dollars and fifty cents an hour put it into that annuity and i'm you know getting pretty close to that fifteen percent now do you count that as my 15

do i need to go out and start anything else because i have my pension which we have a great pension and the annuity i'm just wondering where i should go from there and i also looked on the statements they have things like you know they put some of our money into bonds but they have like the mid cap good growth stocks and you know everything you talk about

but they also give you the option on this website that we can change what we'd like and i wonder if i find like uh you know smart investor pro and he gets

inside my annuity can he break that down into just strictly um the mutual funds alone is that something so let me make sure i understand exactly i think i do but let me make sure your pension of course you're putting nothing in their funding that your annuity is coming out of your check you are putting it in but it's mandatory

yes sir okay and it amounts to almost 15 percent and you have choices in there that you can do and so that's much like a person in corporate america having a 401k all right and so you have them you only you have a mandatory money that you're putting in do they match the annuity as well or they just do the pension just uh pension perfect okay does the

annuity have the option of being a roth

i have not asked okay so first thing i want to do is find out if it's a roth and then the next thing um the you can get in touch with the smart investor pro they make their money the smart investor pros when they sell you a mutual fund and put it into like your roth ira or do a 401k rollover or something like that so helping

you pick your annuity over at the union makes them zero they might do it anyway as a favor because you're a dave ramsey listener so you could ask one of them they probably would do it just so they could help your wife or help your kids or your grandpa or whatever later that kind of a thing but they're not they're not actually going to make money on that transaction obviously that's a union transaction

but they might do it so let's kind of talk through for a second though that you said mid cap i'm guessing they have mid cap they have small cap they have uh bonds uh they they probably have

large cap or something like that does this does that sound right you nailed it you bet okay well let's talk through and i'll explain to you what they are and you can put percentages in each one correct yes i can okay we teach people to put money in four types of mutual funds growth growth and income aggressive growth and international and let's just have a little class here on what this stuff is because it's good for the listeners all across america to hear while i'm talking to you okay so okay uh cap means capitalization

means this money the company has large cap is big companies huge big dinosaur

companies if you were to look in that large cap fund you would see names like alcoa general motors big old honkin

dinosaurs that move slow and are predictable and steady okay

small cap is quite the opposite it's the rowdy kids all right it's the brand new startups the tech boys some of the healthcare startup things uh the brand the companies haven't been around a long time it's going to make a lot more money but lose a lot more money it's going to be wild child of the of the mix you're following me yes because they're the small companies they're brand new

so they're more volatile or they're or they're just rowdy whatever they i mean they could be in a rowdy industry whatever they're volatile mid cap guess what that's goldilocks that's right in the middle the porridge that's just right okay and so that's kind of you know that's that's like your uh home depot or mcdonald's

or you know uh i don't know

uh you you might find uh facebook in there you might find some stuff like that those are big companies but they're not old stodgy companies they still have some life to them they're still kind of they're kind of in the middle you know they're like it's like the young kid that's wild the middle ager and the older guy kind of thing almost uh in terms of their behavior and their risk patterns uh and so your large cap is

much like a growth and income that i'm telling you your mid cap is much like a traditional growth fund your small cap is much like an aggressive growth fund do you have anything that sounds like international or foreign yes i those are on there as well they have they list well you know i've i've heard you run through them and uh you know put a few your youtubes and i looked on my sheet and those are all on there but they're not split exactly 25 25

five percent okay are the large cat is the large cap a group of funds or one fund that is large gap uh it be a group there's multiple okay so you have to pick like one whole thing and being that is that what they're telling you um you know i don't know i wish i had

that that's okay i'm just i'm just i'm trying yeah yeah it's it sounds like if if like mid cap is like 10 different funds in there i just and you have to pick one of them i'd pick that one okay because because it's right down the middle okay and it spreads it across those 10 funds and just forget it all right that's like a buying an s p 500 funds fund almost like yeah about like buying an index fund

i wouldn't want you in the wild child with everything i'd love to have some over in there though so if you could put 25 large cap 25 small cap 25 mid cap and 25 international

that would give you the mix we're talking about and i think we're done for the day you know i mean that's that's going to get you there but i'm not sure that that's what they're allowing you to do here i can't tell whether they're grouping these things if you pick a single fund out of the large cap pick the best one the one that's got the best track record over 10 or more years do a single fund out of

the mid cap pick the best one the one that's got the best track record over 10 to 25 years same thing in the small same thing the international and you put those four funds together out of those four different categories now you've got a portfolio like we talk about like i personally do with my 401k john does too here at our company and so

but that that's these these names

tell you what they are so teach me what an annuity is i hear that a lot an annuity is technically an insurance company product a savings account with an insurance company okay this is a variable annuity that's funded with mutual funds a fixed annuity is a it sucks a fixed annuity is like a cd but at an insurance company it's gonna pay two three percent and they're gonna take the cap and and but the annuity wraps around the money and keeps it warm from taxes like being in a 401k so

it's just a different product under a different bank exactly but you but inside of a variable annuity you can have all these different options we've been talking about okay and so it sounds like they've got a fairly good offering it's a broad really great yeah if you can just weed through the weeds and figure out what to do with it so yeah you could check a smart vester pro one of them will probably help

you walk through it and knock this down but that's the general ideas of how you get at this rodney thanks for being a listener

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five riley is with us in kansas

city hi riley welcome to the ramsey show

hi dave and dr john it's an honor to speak to you guys you too what's up so my wife and i got married back in january congratulations thank you sir um we

finished up baby step three in march and we're trying to figure out now whether we should move on to baby step 3b or move into baby step four with the

idea of throwing whatever else we can into a savings account for a down payment eventually awesome good work man that's

incredible so uh how old are you guys i am 23 and

she is 21. what's your household income um it's going to be roughly 100 000 so she is

still in school she finishes in may and she'll start working full time in july awesome what's she going to do

she's an architectural engineer a lot smarter than me well played man well played always good to marry up brother so what do you do i work in landscaping good very good okay all right so a hundred thousand dollar household income you're in your early twenties and you're thinking about starting to save for a house what's the downside um well we're not entirely sure when

we know the place that we're living at now we have a contract through until next july and we're kind of

thinking we'd potentially be in the position to buy a house maybe next spring but we're also not sure so i don't know if if it's

if we should you know save up and i really wouldn't know how much exactly to save up or at this point and then start baby step four or start baby step four and throw whatever we can well you got plenty of time to do either you're very smart very wise very ahead of the game at your age and so you're not calling me up at 62 with

this question you're already you're you know you've already got you got 50 years here to play this out so you're going to be fine dude you've done well so uh you're going to get both you're going to get retirement and you're going to get a house so it's just a matter of what the order and what the first things are so what's the in my mind as young as

you guys are i i would you know how much to put down i'll give you a hint the more you put down the better off you're going to be you can't put down too much it's impossible so um just start saving i mean once you just pile up as much money as you can pile up in the next 12 months okay and guess what if you don't buy a house

then you still got to build a pile of money it's okay okay and then you could start then you could start your uh baby step four and if you run numbers from you know 25 to 65 that 40 years

investing 15 of 100 000 that's going to be like 15 million dollars

that's what you're going to have so my point is if you if you put this off two years and save for a house and then start saving for retirement as long as you do 15 the rest of your life and that's if you never get a raise which by the way if you work 40 years and never get a raise you're a loser okay so i think you're going to be okay right you're following me

i mean the set of assumptions here is very conservative is my point yes sir yes sir you're going to do great i'll just pile up as much as you can pile up this year just make it a game how much of a down payment can we save he sounds like a guy that

got in the football game and on the very first pass he made some good moves and scored a touchdown and he crossed the line and the crowd is cheering he didn't know what to do with the ball he didn't have a dance plan he does it like do i just hand it back to the rep i don't know what to do man and it's just celebrate and then go to the next step yeah right it's this weird 23 and we are

crushing it and do we uh

touchdown dude it's awesome it's awesome that's fun you've done so well sir so well monique is with us in bangor maine hi monique how are you very well thank you to kelly for taking my call today sure if you got by her your life's good what's up good move monique

so i am looking for some guidance from

dave and dr delaney about my will

i have two daughters one of whom

is doing very well financially she and

her husband are in the one percent and the other daughter earns about 50 000 and for several years i felt uncomfortable

about how to like divide up the assets i'm an

everyday millionaire but more recently

i i've gotten to the point where i don't want to give either of them any money i i feel like

i've worked so hard my whole life i paid for college for them i've paid

over half a million dollars for college for them and they've turned into socialists and

they just but they have

and and well you sit on the wrong college yeah you're my favorite call maybe in two months

i know we're all laughing no we're with you i'm depressed i'm very depressed about where i

see my children heading and i think

i don't want my money to go to them

and i feel terrible about that you shouldn't they're not entitled they didn't hit the dna lottery they're not entitled

my children have been instructed since they were small that in order to get the opportunity to manage the money that god gave me to manage meaning that i've hand off the responsibility to manage some of the ramsey fortune to them they will have to be people of character socialists are not people of character

okay there are parasites and so um

if my children are going to be parasites i'm not going to finance their lives so that they have a reality show

is there a way to put money in let's say

a trust where they couldn't get access

to it to they were let's say 70 years old

i mean then they'd just be a 70 year old socialist right well but i i'm hoping by then they will have kind of woken up you can i put mine is my all of our estate is trust based and our trust is um we've done it from a faith perspective not an economics perspective

but uh if they're not walking with god they don't get to manage god's money it's what the trust says really yep

in no uncertain terms and so uh

you know in your case you could change that lingo and just go you know when you become a capitalist you get the opportunity to manage this money monique here's what i would do i would take some time to distill down beyond the monikers and the port on atlas shrugged what

that's fantastic um man i

am not usually at a loss for words and you got me on that one um monique here's what i want you to do i want you to distill down beneath the quote-unquote word socialist okay what are the things that they are saying that concerns you that you think that you are

leaning into and i want you to have a direct straight conversation about what these things are and then i want you to identify them and like dave said it's your mind you can do what you want to with it i i've seen more and more of the last four or five years a lot of semantic shale games and once you talk to somebody it's like oh we're way on the same page i just thought this about this about that right i think you can say that i you are not

required morally ethically legally spiritually to leave your money to people that you do not agree with how they live their lives period full stop in there right so

now once you've said that then you can start to have some discussions with them that are very gentle and very life-giving and very correct and very direct very kind and very clear and it's like okay you know i've paid for all this stuff for you and truthfully i don't agree with the way you're living your life and i'm not willing to finance that going forward right and

so it's up to you if you want to do that i'm not being controlling i just want to let you know that i'm going to go ahead and do a reading of the will and you're not going to be in it as long as you're living this way whatever this way is if your kid's a heroin addict you sit down with them and go i'm not funding your heroine

but what you think that is unique is you articulated what that meant not it you're not vague no no i'm very clear very clear it's unbelievably detailed and it costs 25 000 dollars very clear it's ridiculous yeah the legal field fees on this were amazing but i just you know and and then we get to have this meeting once a year where we revisit and go oh by

the way remember what we said if you're going to manage money for god this is what managing money for god looks like first you got to be walking with him and you know and we do this kind of stuff and you don't get you know and so it's not we're not mad about it we feel a responsibility heroin addicts are socialists you know i mean it's like wow

this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day ecclesiastes 311 he has made everything beautiful

in its time he has also set eternity in

every human heart yet no one can fathom what god has done from beginning to end

agmandino said always do your best what

you plant now you will harvest later so i think it's good to revisit

that last call because it was not only highly entertaining but it was um but the concept needs to be talked about uh we tell everyone to get a will 100 everyone needs a will and i always tell people go ahead and have a reading of the will while you're alive yes uh meaning tell people what the flip's in it so that there's not some drama after you're dead

and and that because what ends up happening is you leave one of your kids as the executor and they have to execute what's in your will and other people that are or aren't in the will are mad at the executor and you and i should have been mad at you your executor to shoot your arrows and that's not cool yeah you need you need to go ahead

and take those arrows while you're alive look you're not in this because have some character right yeah you're not in this because and it takes it helps the family after your death

uh not be caught off guard and have all these unmet expect i thought they were gonna get a million dollars they got nothing or whatever they thought they're gonna get a hundred dollars they got nothing um or whatever right i mean so

go ahead and have a reading of the will meaning you tell people what's in the will okay if i pass away this brother and sister

are gonna be the guardians of our children this person over here is going to be the trustee of our life insurance proceeds to be given to those children according to our trust and just let you know that so that you know this other person over here that thought they were going to be managing both and getting either uh

they're they're well i wonder what i wonder why he didn't do you know well shut up you know i've already covered it while i was alive that's right so you have a reading of the will you do a will while you're alive you tell people what's up you tell them where the will is yeah where it physically is right and have multiple copies so it can be found um

and it properly executed and you go to mamabearlegalsform.com and you get one you do in 20 minutes if you don't have a complicated will uh now when you're filling this out you're going to discover the angst that that that precious lady has

and that it requires thought about how life works because you're planning your death it is the it is what your will is what

your will like like you have a will um

it's what i want to have happen that's my will upon my death my last the last thing i wanted to have happen my last will and i testify to that a testament and so then you sign it properly and it becomes a legal document the executor is not in charge they don't have free will they get to execute executor execute

that's what that means they execute what is in the will that's all they they're not allowed to do anything else they're allowed to just do what you said that's all they can do so you need to be real clear about what they're supposed to do very clear in there this is what goes to that and you need to update your will anytime there's a major life change you change states because wills are not federal law probate law is state law is not federal law it's state law and louisiana law is french based

uh you know uh and uh

you know very very different yeah we had to update ours when we moved yeah to new state and texas is uh it still thinks it's probably yeah so texas has got word laws uh california and uh florida very weird loss new york ridiculously weird laws most rest states are fairly similar but still change your will update your will if you change if you go through a divorce obviously you know you update your will but the premise is pretty simple you are not morally or spiritually obligated to leave the

work of your hands to your kin

to anybody you don't want to period yeah you're not obligated to leave it to anybody um and you're not a bad person if you don't do that by definition of having not done that right they're not entitled because they happen to have the same last name they're not entitled because they crossed your path somewhere um and so

you know my dad's my dad's third wife got everything it's your dad's money it's your dad's money he gets to decide that maybe she was better to him than you were or maybe yeah maybe there's some issues and you gotta grieve that yeah but that's not you know you don't get to decide i'm gonna fight it when you're invited if you want you're gonna lose yeah if the oil is put together right and you should lose because it's not his desire it's not his will that you

got the money so so tell me how you think about this

i may have been told by a counselor in my life that i'm hyper controlling no and i have this this which makes a great talk radio host by the way the best i have this fantasy about having money that i pass along and i'll be able to still pull strings and i don't even be here yeah good luck with that so there's part of me that says i'm going to

i want to i want to detail this sucker out and y'all are going to x y and then there's part of me that knows the futility of that and want to say i'm raising two good kids i've got a good charities i believe whatever the thing is and when i'm dead

it's how do you balance that well she's got a lot more commas than zeros than i did well what you've got to remember is that when you leave money substantial money it magnifies well whoever you leave it to all their good and all they're bad so whatever's wrong with your kid is going to be 10x and however generous they are is going to be 10x 10x right same thing with that charity

if they're if they're disorganized and chaotic and they get a bunch of money they're going to be 10x disorganized and chaotic they're not suddenly going to fix their deficits they're going to be magnified uh they weren't waiting on the extra money to clean up their act and and so uh you know whatever wherever you leave it so it's it's not necessarily a blessing and and so the extreme example

we used in that call is uh you you leave a heroin addict money you're gonna kill them because they're gonna od because they can finally afford it so you don't want to you don't want to curse people with your money with your money but money's not the curse the curse is you've magnified whatever's wrong and whatever is right yeah and so and you're not going to find any perfect organizations or any perfect kids

and you're not more spiritual if you left it to charity than if you left it inside your family you're still managing it for god if we're christians in either case and that's what we're called to do so how did you determine when you were doing yours how did you determine the character ethos that you wanted to wrap around this money after you're gone well i wanted them to be walking with god

and that also in our world involves handling money the way we teach because it's biblical principles okay and so to the extent that they're doing that while i'm here i'm comfortable with them being there and training them that their brother or sister decides to go off the ranch and wants to live on the back of a yacht and and not work uh which is not in the bible

and they'll wrap around that and hold them accountable yeah they're gonna go uh you're not getting any more money got you and they've got the tools to do it the way we structured the thing okay so um we're not gonna fund uh

i'm not name names but i mean crazy people in reality shows you put the names on them right right uh they're pitiful and i don't want to co i won't be the cause of the pitiful uh not in my lineage you know and and so

but i'm not obligated to leave it to charity because humans are bad because humans run charities so this is this is ridiculous people well if you were spiritual you'd leave it out of the church where some guy that doesn't know how to handle money is the pastor come on that's a bunch of crap or you raise three off the charts generous children like you have and you know that money is going to be magnified with

the generosity right and if they learn their lessons then the same thing will apply as they leave it to my grandkids or their grandkids they're not going to ruin one of them because if you fund one that's off track you're going to ensure they stay off track that's what it amounts to and that's a that's one being a charity a ministry a person yeah and and so

that's what you gotta look at in her case she's saying they became socialist meaning she thinks that their uh their political view of the world is way off base and she doesn't want to fund that and she and so and she disappointed a different yeah different ideology and so it's her money she can magnify what she wants to leave it too um conservative think tank i don't know

i mean you know whatever i don't know but um whoever wherever you

feel like is going to implement that but even remember then though there are people running that right and so the where the control breaks down is when we all you know the controlling from the grave the sense of control freak that you and i both share um breaks down is we realize that even having done all of that then it's still in god's hands because those kids can still just go crazy

they can do what they want yeah they can come back they can go away then come back then go away you know you could leave it to a ministry and then they lose their way and they completely leave orthodoxy and go some crazy direction with their theology and you go how credit i leave money those people it starts with an articulation of what do you want to see

this money magnify i love that yeah yeah because it's going to magnum it's going to magnify it loves it good discussion you guys and get your wills done people do will do a will this is the ramsay show we'll

be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 191. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from April 9, 2021)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:29:31 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life your money your work

your relationships we're talking life it all plays together i am ken coleman joined by my colleague john deloney and we are taking you through this hour of the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number it's a free call triple eight eight two five five

two two five and john we've got a full lobby here at ramsey solutions some fantastic people out there we've got some debt free screams coming up we got a teacher interview coming up we got people calling to get clarity coming up and uh it's always fun to be with you my friend thanks man you too looking forward to it it's good to see everyone out there yeah yeah great great group by

the way great reminder we are open if you want to come to nashville and uh the area and come a little south here in franklin uh check us out ramseysolutions.com let us know you're coming we've got uh free baked goods coffee you got your

iced coffees you got your i don't know do they have any juice over there yes they got the juice yes they got it yeah i got the juice do you but that's because i'm passionate about what i do that's what we say on the ken coleman show when you're living on purpose and working on purpose you got the juice i see in the it's not just a j-o-b john in

the health and wellness industry the juice steroids so it's cool man well i think anybody that's watching on youtube right now can take a quick gander at me and quickly certainly

i mean i don't think i'm gonna shock anybody with that statement if you hang on till hour three today good folks kid and i are gonna do push-ups push-ups that's right you know this desk is big enough for me to get on that end and i i'm short and i don't think hits you if we go head-to-head uh during the commercial break maybe we'll get that kelly's not sure kelly's long enough

but my self-esteem is not quite that long it's it's yeah i couldn't do it i could do that could you yeah i have no problem knocking out some push-ups all right but we're not gonna say that for the next segment all right triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna have a blast today you know why because we're gonna be diving in with you whether it's talking about your relationships toxicity at work hey am

i doing what i love how do i make more money what do i do with my budget how do i get out of debt this is all going somewhere that really

really matters and that's why this is going to be fun let's go to tallahassee florida to start it off chris joins us there chris you're on the ramsay show hey guys how's it going appreciate you having me we're having a blast what's up hey um quick question for you guys so i'm you know going through baby steps we were on the latter end of that um so

i got a structure to set on my co-payment coming up um this february and uh he's got 50 000 coming in and looking to see if i need to just send that you know max out the roth ira that that year and then put the rest and i got a son um put into his 529 kind of max that out and then put the rest towards the house or how would

you guys kind of split that up sounds like you're following the baby steps is that true yep so one well baby step are step

uh so this is going into four and five kind of a hybrid there um so we've got about with an employer match got about 12 percent going into the retirement um so what's the settlement

from um so i had a motorcycle accident um about 10 years ago now um so we got a payment this february and then i got a couple others um in five year batches out until i'm uh until i'm 40.

correct or no 250. oh okay all right all right so 250.

finish out the college fund uh because that's gonna accrue now you've knocked that step out completely and so the money you were putting into that now we start putting that towards the house and then the rest of the money that just so it's the same idea as the debt-free snowball here and so you just take that money finish out the college fund step that's there now it's fully funded

and it's going and now we re we take those funds and we knock out as much of the house as you can and with the understanding that no matter what your employment status is in five years you can get a hundred thousand dollar and it's check and that's you know the idea with all these steps is obviously to avoid having any any type of fallback or anything like that well yeah

but by the you you really are running as fast as you can towards paying your house off yeah knowing that regardless of where you are in five years that's gonna be what pays your house off right so i would front load those yeah front load your accounts on the front end here yeah because you've got a five year you're gonna be completely debt free completely paid up on your on your uh

529 you're gonna be where you need to be in five years regardless yeah um so man yeah the earlier you can get that stuff accruing interest yeah so just knock it the answer is knock out four and five yeah so knock them out and follow them and you're going to be fine you you don't need you've got a backup plan i mean just think about that just

the money he's going to put in his house if you fill a hard time you sell the house yeah there's so much equity in it and then you're debt free on on six anyway so yeah just follow it out don't overthink it and i think to speak to that what's the what's the psychology there of a guy who again he's just like me just like everybody else he's walking

this stuff out he's in great financial shape this settlement is only going to make it better but yet there's still fear should i spend this money we struggle so much with just how s

little we control in the world yeah how simple life is when we just play it out yeah right when we if we can just put our head in the mind of the tortoise and just take little steps one after the other and so yeah it's 50 000 come on just follow the plan man and it feels like we're not doing enough it feels like well i gotta be doing more

and this is a bit just keep following that plan and can i can't tell you how many times i've tried to short-circuit it hey i'll just do double the workouts today yeah and that'll get me double the in shape tomorrow it just makes me so sore you can't move right yeah so i'm i'm not the licensed psychologist

i don't have the training you do but when i'm talking to people like this on the ken coleman show and we get a question like this i'm gonna go okay let's just lay this out what's the fear name the thing you're afraid of well i lose my job can i i think that's important would you agree with that so it's really you know i'm not going to make chris do that

because chris is in great shape but it's almost like chris and if anybody's like chris what are you really scared of what's the name the way i say it is write it down i love it and then demand evidence from it yeah are you seriously yeah the worst mom oh we said this yeah are you put it on the witness stand yep you're not right are you really too overweight for someone to love

you no you're not i love you are you seriously gonna be broke in five years by following baby steps yeah no you're not yeah most of the time if you demand evidence from your fears you realize you've been lying to yourself right right and then accept the truth and focus on

the truth hey i got this we're gonna do this take a deep breath and keep on moving let me tell you what we're gonna do we're gonna keep on broadcasting life-changing radio don't move this

is the ramsay show

[Music]

life is full of firsts

[Music] as the first and longest serving christian health cost sharing ministry chm has shared medical expenses for its members since 1981.

we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more firsts

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welcome back america you have joined the conversation here on the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined with my colleague john dalone we're taking your questions about your life your work your relationships and

we are here for you i just feel like somebody needs to call today you're going i've thought about it before i think today's the day well let's go triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five well it's april john and you know around here that's a big big month for ramsey solutions because it's national financial literacy month

and with all of our involvement with ramsey ed ramsey education solutions in america schools we do our teacher appreciation giveaway it's sponsored by mint mobile the affordable premium wireless provider and because of the dedicated teachers across the country our foundations in personal finance curriculum is teaching students how to save avoid debt and pay cash for things like cars and college it's changing family trees helping kids

not maybe make the mistakes that their parents and grandparents made and we love these testimonies so teachers anybody listening if you're a teacher we want you to enter today for a chance to win some awesome prizes like five thousand dollars in

cash you can use that however you like go to ramseysolutions.com teacher that's ramsey solutions.com

teacher and you've got to enter by april

the 30th if you're not a teacher share this with a teacher

in your life and one of the things we love to do here on the ramsay show is highlight the unbelievable

impact that the teachers who engage with us uh and teach foundations and personal finance in their school and and the impact they make and so we are going to go to uh amanda who joins us on the line

uh she is at temple high school in the atlanta georgia area amanda you're on the ramsay show

hi guys thanks for talking with me what's whereabouts in the atlanta areas temple high school well we're not really in atlanta it's temple georgia but we're really close we're about if you go i-20 west we're about 40 minutes outside oh yeah yeah sure sure i got you all right very good and uh this is a public school i'm looking here with 627 kids enrolled and you've been a teacher for how many years this is my 14th year wow and how long have you been teaching foundations in uh personal finance eight

wow so how did you come across

dave ramsey or our curriculum

yeah so i'm kind of a lifer i'm kind of a fan girl for dave and john it's good to talk to you because i had the pleasure of talking with you last week on your show it hasn't aired yet but i'm excited to hear that back yeah it's great to talk to you i first

went through spu as a college kid and then my husband and i took it again in fact we missed our very first week of class on our honeymoon so like the second we got married we went through it again and i've led nine fpu classes i think

now to the church and it's just so exciting to bring this content to the high school kids so fun so when you first brought it to

the school what was that like getting it started take it to the early days eight years ago of beginning this process of teaching this yeah well i kind of get to start over again this is my first year at temple so i brought it with me when i came over and it's been so exciting to share this with these kids because we had financial literacy here but it wasn't the ramsay content and just the the content just makes it so relatable and easy to grasp ideas

that are so counter cultural to what they're being told you know i've had tons of parents react in lots of different ways some are excited and they're emailing me saying hey send me your tax information stuff because i'm about to do my taxes and and i want to make sure i'm doing a ride or or you know send me the the chapter you taught on budgeting like can

i talk to you about that but then i've also had parents at a previous system that said i don't know what you're teaching my kid but i don't want them to be in your cult you know so i mean it's kind of you know it's very different you know having to to approach the kids with with these ideas and knowing that they're so different than what they're hearing at home yeah that's fantastic

so penis paint us a picture of the last year or two for the average teacher

um there was a forced giggle if i've ever heard one utter chaos to be honest um i i have

several friends that have left the industry

and and i have several that you know myself included where i feel like i'm in my sweet spot even more now than i was before you know to use ken's language so um

it's it's weird it's it's hard it's challenging we have i teach business and financial so you know there are things that covet has affected positively for our young people

uh as far as the way they approach the workforce the the the doors that are now open with you know virtual working and working from home and this is that that i i kind of have a new curriculum to teach you know how to do business and finance

in this new world you know when the banks are closed well how do you do online thinking you know things like that so um it's it's challenging but it's

forced us to be creative sounds like you are a teacher who's been in the business that i used to teach as well at a public high school and man after one year it's easy just to say okay i've already got that lesson done and i'm just gonna i'm gonna coast and it sounds like you are a teacher who's so invested in the changed outcomes for your in your students lives that

you are somebody who's constantly revising constantly trying to find new things constantly challenging yourself and that's exhausting and frustrating and annoying but it's the it's the rich part of the gig too absolutely for sure i'm so glad you make

me happy that my kids are in the community in a public school because there's teachers like you millions of you everywhere across the country doing extraordinary work i'm so grateful for you you are joining our conversation with amanda wilson who is a teacher at temple high school in temple georgia and she teaches our foundations in personal finance curriculum and we are honoring her for uh financial literacy month and amanda i want to ask you take us to a story that pops up top of your heart uh about a kid or maybe multiple kids

that got this stuff and and did something really cool with it or they you saw the change really stick and as a result some great results yeah well this is the first year i've been with this group of students so the longevity stories i don't really have a lot of those but what i am starting to see because i'm still in the same community as the school i came from is that now i've kind of started a side

hustle ministry on i mean i'm not charging for it but my previous financial babies would come back and they're like okay i just graduated nursing school and i got a 35 000 bonus what do i do now you know and so they'll call me and say hey can i get you coffee can we talk about my budget or can i how do i do this and so it's kind of started a little ministry counseling thing

once a student always a student and so they know that there's always a safe place for them to come back and ask questions and and get advice and things like that and and that's what's so powerful is that i'm i'm teaching this to adults i'm living this in my family we're on baby step six um in fact yesterday my husband and i paid cash for our dave car one new car um tell us about that

what kind of car come on we got to brag a little bit you earned it well it's modest it's a 2017 ford explorer but it's got all the bells and so many

whistles

oh my gosh i didn't know how bad my own car was i thought it was okay and so i got in a new one you know what here's the thing though it was okay you made it work that's what i want people to hear you made it work uh and it is okay and yet now you're in

a place where you earned it amanda let me just say on behalf of john and our entire uh ramsey solutions team

we're proud to be associated with men and women like you who are giving of yourself beyond the classroom you are truly leaving a legacy so thank you for joining us on the call thank you for what you do well it's my pleasure and thank you for all the great content i look forward to seeing you guys at summit virtually hey come on all right that's going to be a lot of fun well john

i mean that's what it's about yeah let's not forget that we did some study here at ramsey solutions and the third largest group of net worth millionaires in the united states our teacher and after having been a teacher and my wife's been a teacher for years they don't make billionaire money they make millionaire decisions great every single day great statement love that all right john delaney ken coleman here with

you on the ramsey show don't move because i'm looking out in the lobby and i see ourselves a great couple who's going to be doing a debt-free screen don't move we're coming right back [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the ramsey show america thrilled to have you with us as we talk about your life your work money relationships

how to live to the fullest live like no one else so that you can give like no one else dr john deloney joins me i'm ken coleman we're ramsey's ramsey personalities we both have our own shows the ken coleman show and the dr john delaney show on the ramsey network and we're taking you through this hour in the lobby of ramsey solutions

world headquarters are jacob and heather welcome hello ken hey dr john what's up where are you guys from saint louis missouri all right all right and uh you're here because you're dead for debt-free that's fun so

let's learn how much you paid off tell us the number we paid off 155 and 900

wow and how long did it take you to do that four years and one month four years in one month so you'll ground it down huh yeah yes we did i love the specificity always of these stories hey when you go five years it is just every month counts

exactly right and uh range of income

um so we started around a hundred thousand um and then we're at about 125 000 now oh nice what'd you do to bump it up uh job changes and a lot of overtime yeah

what do you both do i'm a nurse and i'm a letter carrier for the post office nice so you you were racking some overtime as well for the usps yes i was okay how crazy was it during uh during the covet um parcel wise it was really crazy but

other than that it wasn't other than that all right good now what type of debt are we talking about we paid off our mortgage was the only

debt you had it was the only time we had wow okay so

what happened uh so here we go let's see four years one month ago you guys go on this journey how did this come about um we bought a we got married and what every married couple does is they go and buy a house it was an impulse buy it was the first thing i've ever impulse bought and i immediately felt terrible about it it was a house um wow i imposed by like dorito tacos

that's really impressive yeah so we knew that we needed to get things together and how long you been married um four years yeah okay so you got married bought a house and then looked at each other went oh no

were you familiar with dave ramsey ramsay solutions i mean where did this guilt come from within moments of walking inside the home um so when i was little my aunt had a total money makeover book at her house but i don't they never really followed so i kind of knew the name but other than that he started listening

right after we bought the house actually and he started talking to me about the principles which made sense um i was always raised if you

don't have cash you don't buy it and so i mean to us that made sense and you were already there yourself you were like i don't like this 155 000 okay yeah interesting so what was the decision

like to actually get after this so yeah i know you made this decision okay we're going to do this then how did it begin to change things what did you start doing um it was pretty slow to start because actually of me i had just

cash flowed my second degree and i was making decent money for the first time in a while and i wanted to spend it

i get that yeah so i i was a little slow

to get on board but i thought i'd be a good wife and if you wanted to do this we could put a little bit of money each month and then then we bought a hot tub yeah we bought a hot tub um and then but you paid cash but we paid cash for the hot tub i don't want to totally beat yourself up over there yeah um

if you get a nursing degree you get a hot tub that's a new dave that's it that's baby step 4.3 why not okay all right all right um so i mean

from there we had pmi and once we paid off that pmi

i really got on board and we actually ended up putting my entire income towards that from that point forward wow yeah cause i was gonna say this is a tremendous amount here i mean this is getting with it i mean was it rice and beans beans and rice did you go that far we actually like rice and beans yeah we uh canceled we didn't have tv or just but you had a hot tub we sold everything that wasn't kneeled down except for the hot dogs i'm going to tell you this john if i've got a hot tub i'm going to be okay with no tv and rice and beans because i can at least eat rice and beans in the house in the hot tub and then you all had to do weird married things like just talk to one another go for walks and hikes and hang out in the hot tub i mean because you weren't just gonna sit there and scroll mindlessly through some streaming service right right so my guess is four years later after putting in all that sweat equity and tear equity your marriage is better too yeah yeah yeah we we've definitely come a long way yeah so talk to other couples what's the key no matter what their story is what's the key to getting on board together and sticking with it [Music] i think you have to have a common goal and if you have a common goal and it's worth sacrificing for you can do it if you believe you can do it and you have that common goal how old are you two 30 30 30.

and the mail's not going to stop coming and people are going to stop going to hospitals and so what's next um we'd like to start working towards self-employment uh eventually right now we're just gonna start saving just save all right this is what i want to hear because this is what i do i try to help people achieve their dreams right get promoted get that dream job

and work like no one else i want to know what's the dream there working for yourself you allow you can you share that you got you got you got at least a a fuzzy version of that dream um owning i think mainly real estate real estate well now you're set up that's stacking money okay good that's fantastic talk to us about your support system along the way

when a couple decides to do this and and live really differently and take one person's entire income and put it towards debt that's a little strange who is your support system really just each other no one really knew we were on this journey or really what do you think about that doc i think these two are gangsters that's what i think i it's the quiet ones it's

the mail carrier that's walking around with the paid off house right or it's the nurse who smiles a little bit more because she's got a little less stress in her life that's incredible you two yeah incredible is right wow unbelievable parents on board your friends just kind of laugh and make fun of you yeah yeah they would pretty much just say well why would you want to do that yeah interesting

and so tell us about

a heart i mean the last year has been rough on nurses really rough everybody gets off a shift

and they're all going to just what the closest margarita shop there is and you say oh i'm going home exactly to sit in my hot tub and that was the goal have yet another burrito what do you say um i mean

i always encourage people to do it and i think people don't really understand the value which is surprising to me but i think it's worth it yes it absolutely you two are free we're free yes four years in you're free incredible and now moving steadily towards dreaming and making those dreams a reality so good so good what a great story all right you guys ready you've been you've been warming up i'm ready you look ready get the hands held there we go look at that couple folks it is jacob and heather

from st louis missouri they paid off 155

thousand dollars nine hundred fifty five thousand nine hundred dollars in four years and one month making a hundred k

to 125 000

jacob and heather take it away let's hear your debt free scream three two one we're debt-free

yes there it is and they

are look at that

look at that young couple that's the finish line and and that's what we love about the debt free street it's the finish line yet it's the starting line a whole new race right whole new race and they can walk they can run they can just head off into the woods they do it whatever they want they hop off the trail lay under a tree for a couple days

i don't want to blow by this because i have a tendency to do this i see somebody who buys an makes an impulse purchase again not everyone impulse buys a house they did to this debt-free screen

there's digital confetti falling behind them right all that in between is four years

of monthly grinding annoyances

frustrations squeezing the last little bit of lotion out of the tube because we don't have it in the budget to go get some more and you're thinking i make so much money why don't you do this but you keep going and keep going and keep going so so worth it take a little step in a little step in a little step in four years you can look up you're gonna be

there do what you have to do john so that you can do what you want to do and this applies to money as well that's why the baby steps work so great what a great young couple all right john and i are going to go out and high five them congratulate them and then we're coming right back this is the ramsay show

[Music]

ramsay show continues i'm ken coleman joined by dr john dolone as we take your calls we are a ranch personalities and a part of the ramsey network dr john deloney show fabulous show

new episodes every monday wednesday and friday on youtube and you can get them anywhere you listen to podcasts and the ken coleman show syndicated on 70 plus stations around the country siriusxm and on youtube monday through friday as well just search the ken coleman show on youtube and uh wherever podcasts are available and so john uh john you focus on

mental emotional health it's relationship health i mean just all across pretty much everything pretty much everything and i'm focused on helping people do what they were created to do simply put we believe that you were created to work now that sounds gross for some of you when i say created to contribute that starts to hit a nerve everybody wants to make a difference john and it turns out that some of

the stuff you cover and some of the stuff i cover interconnects a good bit with toxicity in the workplace so if you're in a situation you're going i need my job dude i'm walking the baby steps but i don't know if i can hang on any longer give us a shout give us a shout i would love that and i want to ask you something ken so

i was reading something a few weeks ago and this author she's brilliant she was talking about and tell me if you see this on your show what we used to as a society we used to have our small little village and the small little village gave us our central values it gave us the the cultural norms what was cool what's not cool here's how we talked that

and then it shifted to on a larger scale

our religious communities said here's here's our general set of values here's who we talk how we talk to another whatever and now we're in this completely decentralized universe and we are trying to get cultural and collective values from our workplace and so we are all going to work and trying to find this sense of purpose and the sense of value in the sense of what should i be dressing

and how do we all talk together and every business has a different culture and every place and so it's just decentralizing everything but it goes back to this idea and i hadn't thought of it in my head we are putting a lot into this idea of

work we're getting a lot of value purpose

meaning this isn't just about earning a check anymore making sure that we got food on the table this is about answering questions like who am i and what's my role here right yeah that's new and different it feels like no i don't think it is i don't think so no genesis chapter 2 makes it pretty clear that we were created to work that work is something that we do um and so i think that that men and women throughout history have longed to make a difference in their world

and i i think purpose comes down to two areas in our life relationally and professionally you you cover a relationship i cover the professional side of things and what i mean by that is that your identity and your value as a human being has nothing to do with the size of your salary right or the notoriety

attached to your work but as it relates to significance and contributing to the world it matters

deeply and so when you spend you know if there's a reason why torture the the the the evil nazis that

the torture was to have prisoners move one pile of

rocks from one side of the prison camp to the other just futility huh yeah that's that's that is not a physical torture there even though that's hard work that was an emotional psychological psychological torture there's no meaning in what i'm doing and so if you spend your whole life 35 40 years doing a job that you

don't have any passion for you don't love the work itself and the work itself doesn't create a result that you

connect to then that's then that's the issue so in what she's saying if she's saying look we're putting too much into our title just that

don't under um don't undersell how important work is don't understand how important cultural fit don't understand how important we're putting a lot in there well the reason is is because we long to make a difference and so the ramsey solutions world view of work is that you were created to work you don't

work to live the secular world view of where just the general world view of work is that i just work to get a paycheck to be able to cover the basics and if i'm fortunate enough to make more than that and i can have some toys and make some additional memories awesome but it's not a utilitarian function that's not the cause of work so is it this is i never thought of this question is it my responsibility to bring meaning to my job or vice versa for instance if i

if someone is listening to this and they are the assistant director of the mail room and the large office complex where they work they don't make a huge salary but without them this business does not operate yeah so is it their responsibility to say to find the meeting and what they're doing well they need it's not a responsibility it's a reality okay any job everybody that i'm looking

at on our team everybody in here their job does matter

well yeah we could just run our mouths all day nobody's gonna we're nothing without them yeah the question is does the job matter

deeply to them and so that's your responsibility so you need to understand the reality is is that a job does matter somebody needs to do it if you're doing it but it's okay that it's not your ultimate dream job right now it's where you are and you're working your way up maybe you're getting out of debt whatever your situation but ultimately what we're teaching is and what i believe is you need to be in a job that matters deeply to you all the work

matters but does it matter deeply to you that's why we talk about talent passion and mission coming together so let's put it this way if a human being spends their whole work career just doing something they're good at they'll be successful okay they'll

deliver results and get paid probably get promoted if they do something they're good at that's talent and something they love to do

just the work itself there'll be some deep satisfaction there but if they do something they're good at that's talent and they and they do something they love that's passion and then that work that they're doing also creates results that fills their heart they go that matters really deeply to me i like producing these results there's a personal connection to these results that's mission now we're talking about significance in a person they begin to see the significance of their contribution to the world has nothing to do with success or satisfaction or even can you have a

mission that is can go from job to job

sure once you land there once you know your purpose and mission yeah that's what i teach you stay in your sweet spot the rest of your life yeah but you're still moving up yeah and that and by the way that that kind of helps some folks the dream job's not just one thing

by the way it's not just one career it's

who you're going to be wherever you go are you using your talent to perform

work that you love passion to produce results that matter deeply to your mission so i could see a person go from and i get this call at the time of the cold show we could get somebody a teacher that goes hey i want to i want to move out of being an elementary teacher and i want to go into corporate training let's just break that down so

if you're talented as a teacher what are the talents you got to have does that cross over to being a trainer yes the work you love as a teacher is that work also something that you love as a trainer yes that's instruction they love instruction the research the instructing the guiding if you will and then what are the results that matter to you well if it's teaching

and educating a child or just mentoring a child or giving a child a bump yeah but if you're doing that in the corporate world same thing so it's like a litmus test of hey as long as i'm doing this type of work i know that i'm doing what i was created to do and therefore you can do that anywhere anywhere and it's not about money you'll make money

and you'll have enough money which is why again teachers are the third largest group of net worth millionaires why well because they're they they've gone to significance and satisfaction and success have come along with it because they had altered their lifestyle to fit their mission to fit the mission

you just broke it all down i didn't look at me well you just interviewed me but that's the deal there yeah so here's the deal let's talk about where you come into this we get calls when you come on my show and some of the calls we could take today folks if you feel like you're in a toxic workplace you're going i need my job to get out of

the baby steps i need the shuffle i need the big shovel i'll talk big shovel with you but we could talk about that what's that look like one of the things we fall into all the time we get these calls i'm doing something i love but i can't stand the place i'm doing it and we say it's doing the right thing in the wrong place you can be in that sweet spot that

we just had fun talking about and be in a toxic work environment an

abusive environment co-workers maybe a leader who's just a toxic leader and you can hate going in everything you want to talk about confusion yeah that's confusion absolutely and there's no need so let's help you get clear we'll take those calls and take your money calls john ben fun hour our producer ben hill our associates at kelly daniel thank you most of all let's thank you america because you're why we do the show this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermzyshow.com

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life your money your work career

your relationships mental emotional health we're going to cover it all because it all matters in relation to you being who you

are created to be i'm ken coleman host of the ken coleman show which is on the ramsey network and my colleague is dr john dolone he's holds up the dr john deloney show on the ramsay network as well and we are here for you this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five so question i get a lot on

the ken coleman show uh can i switch jobs during the baby steps the answer is yes many times it's the promotion you need and the financial boost so i'm gonna help you with some big shovel stuff uh john's gonna hey you know a lot of times people can't get through the baby steps because of relational and emotional issues all kinds of stuff mental health uh john and i'll team up

if you're in a toxic work environment what to do and john and i team up on that so i want you to know that you can ask those questions and of course your money questions we are here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five let's start it off this hour in sarasota florida where jamie joins us jamie you're on the ramsay show good afternoon gentlemen how are

you guys today we're having a blast what's going on with you wonderful well thank you so much for uh everything that you do to help uh everyone that listens to y'all

um so here's my situation and uh

i'm 39 uh married

i'm uh i have a child and i have a two-year-old and another one that is due in july so i'm already uh we are already i should say on baby step seven wow i and by

nature oh you know we uh obviously we or maybe said seven we have already you know money and savings and everything uh by nature i um i am naturally

stingy i am and i want to become more

generous so i am wondering what would be some practical ways to become more generous so that i can because in baby step 7 is talking about giving so how can i be generous and smart at the same time with

the finances that i have man i love that question jamie i love your heart dude so why why are you stingy i was

i grew up kind of um always uh

how do i say this kind of thinking that i didn't have enough you know and i never lacked anything but i also never um

i always thought you know i'm always thinking for the future for the future kind of like how you guys teach you know and i'm already thinking about you know my kids braces and their college tuition and all that kind of stuff um my wife on the other hand she's extremely generous sometimes i think she's a little too generous where people take advantage of but i want to

be generous and you know smart at the same

time because sometimes people take advantage of generous people uh but you know i guess this is the reason why i'm asking this question so it sounds like beneath the

because you're clearly smart you're 39 you're a millionaire right you know how math works and you're very disciplined and you're intentional yet but maybe almost there okay so it sounds like

beneath the fear

that i think any rational person has is i'm not gonna have enough that's a that's a base fear that people have you mentioned several times this this idea of uh being taken advantage of that somebody's going to pull it over on you and where does that come from

you've been taken advantage of before yes actually um and it's because uh you know

it's funny because it actually happened um uh you know not so much with friends

but mainly with family um you know where

we extend the hand and um you know we

kind of felt maybe in the past that we have um gotten pooped on and pardoned my expression but you know

uh though those things have really kind of marked us and you know we know that obviously we know we need to we realize the importance of setting boundaries but um you know but it's the whole idea

of you know of giving you know for me it's something that i want to get to a point where it's just so you know so free in that

sense you know and without obviously being a little too free to get what i'm saying so here's here's two two two things to think through

a guy named mitch changed my life when it came to giving back in college that's back when we had nothing and um

he had a little bit better job and he was a little bit better with his money and one morning some kid came and knocked on the door and said you know fill in the blank we're selling something or we need some money for down the street whatever and mitch said hang on i don't have any

cash but hold on and i wrote him a check a sizable check

and everyone in the house you know a bunch of college knuckleheads and i was like oh he's gonna take that money and go do this or that and i'll never forget what mitch said he said well that's on him my gift

was he gave me a need and

my gift was fulfilled an obligation i

had in my heart to help and if somebody wants to take advantage of me that's going to be between them and the mirror not me and then there's a second thing which is and i've learned this by sitting by dave there is an intentionality there is a point when you start enabling people and so like you talked about with family and boundaries right so when you know you're actually participating in somebody hurting themselves or hurting other people whether it's through supporting addiction or whether it's fill in

the blank then you have an obligation to stop so if i'm in your seat i'm going to do two things number one i'm going to sit down with my wife and be have a dreaming session who are people we would love to serve help what gets us going ken talks about passion when it comes to work what are we passionate about serving other people something in your life

it may be people who get taken advantage of maybe that's where your passion is what is that thing you can contribute to in your community the second thing is i would set some relatively aggressive goals and then the third thing is this and i'm making these up off top of my head brother is i want to feel and see that transaction you know where i get the greatest joy is

when i am at a restaurant and i see somebody working like bananas yeah she is working so hard he's working so hard and i'm gonna obnoxiously tip that person i'm going to blow my budget for the whole month but i'm going to tip like crazy and you just watch them look at that check my heart feels good but i know that their their their electric bill is taking care of that month

because of that one meal that's when you start seeing the impact in your soul and in their soul when it comes to giving jamie i just got to add i think john gave you some great things here but but remind remind yourself that you've been burned with family and you are talking about setting boundaries and set the boundaries and know that you're not going to make that you're going to make that mistake again

so be free from that you're free you know what that's like going to do it again second thing i would mention is i think john is right and i was going to say i would encourage you today or tomorrow your favorite drive-through place just pay just start small and build this muscle because you're scared and you don't trust people if you want to get over stingy start small here's what

i want you to do next drive through say hey person behind

me how much is their deal i'm going to take care of the next time you go to a restaurant your bill's 50 bucks tip 100 on top yeah do something small that you can see and begin to feel that positive chemical that gets released when you go oh that was really fun and then just kind of build up

just start giving don't think just give

don't move more ramsay show coming right [Music]

up

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[Music] the ramsay show continues from our ramsey solutions studios in nashville thrilled to have you with us i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dilloni and we're taking you through this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh john you know this

i'm talking to people every day that are stuck and disengaged in their current job and uh ramsey solutions is a solution for

that if you're searching for a new job uh our get hired live stream event brought to you by yours truly tuesday april the 27th is for you it's a one night event tuesday april 27th 8 eastern 7 central you'll learn how to get clear on what you do best get qualified for the job you want and get connected to job opportunities and this is for people that are starting out

if you're a college kid if you're trying to upgrade get a bigger shovel or you're trying to switch careers the bottom line is you're trying to win because that's what getting hired is you're beating the competition then this event is for you join me tuesday april the 27th we're gonna have a live crowd about 200 people and we haven't sold out of that yet so if you're in driving distance of nashville or live in

the national area and you want to join us we're gonna do some special stuff for all you folks uh go text the word hired

hired to 33789 text the word higher to 33789 ticket start at just 20 it's tuesday april the 27th eight

eastern seven central get hired hear from our ramsey solutions world headquarters let's go to scott who joins us in las vegas nevada scott how can we help hi guys so

i have a situation where i have

a 16 year old truck i paid it off in 2010 and my dad always told me hey start saving so when you get you have to buy and purchase a new truck or a new car uh you need to pay it out outright so i'm at a point right now where my truck is kind of it's older it's it's i feel like every year can maybe something can happen but i also owe 100 about 157 000 on my

mortgage and i'm wondering if i just what's the best route is it to maybe possibly put that money towards my mortgage and i'm talking about i have about almost a hundred thousand dollars in my savings and i have about 35 i'd say about 35 for emergency

uh and the rest i would you know i was going to put down a truck or put down a car eventually but i wanted to know like what's the best route to go dude go buy a truck and then pay the rest down on your house man you're overthinking this that's it

you got 100 000 in the bank you know what that makes you a unicorn yeah above and beyond your emergency fund i'm assuming you have no debt correct the only bit i have is my house yeah that's right yeah i understand that but other than that so yeah john's right what are you worried about well i don't well so i mean my truck is fine but i feel like

it could die at any minute right like yeah well oh scott scott scott if your truck dies at any moment you got a hundred grand sitting in the bank there's absolutely zero to worry about

okay do you i mean like you wanted

one time my wife bought a corolla and we

agreed that when the corolla finally died i could get a new car did you still early no you know why because you can't kill a corolla oh it will be true it will be what they drive after the apocalypse corolla right somewhere a toyota executive is writing that down you can't i'm just telling you so i got to a point where i'd get in it every morning and go please don't start please don't start doing it is that where you're at scott i mean it

is and so here's but here's the grand here's my thing though is like i know i want to get eventually i want to get a tesla cyber truck whenever those come out okay that's not going to be like two or three years so i'm hoping my truck lasts that long right so i'm hoping on

that but that's what i mean is like do should i just start and that's my question should i just start focusing on putting money towards my my home payment and then eventually you know but i wouldn't buy a hundred thousand dollar truck until my house was paid off yeah it's not that it's like 60 something thousand same same difference yeah it's a lot of money yeah so here's yeah scott buddy go get something or keep driving

this thing and then put it let let's do this here's what i'd like to see you do because i i think he needs real direction yeah let's get a hundred thousand dollars burning a hole in your pocket seriously i think and you're frustrated that you drive kind of yeah a beater truck yeah and you got a hundred thousand dollars yeah so so if you're frustrated you've got

the money to go buy it but go buy something that retains its value pretty decently and then uh and then if you if you can afford the tesla thing down the road uh then you're going to get most of your money back or you're going to get a good chunk back you know so if you buy a one of those toys what are those toyota trucks that just hold their value for fundraising tundras tacomas

you know look dude here's the deal i'd pay the house off i i would pay a big chunk down on the house you got the emergency fund in place because now you're really stacking money um so just walk the baby steps out and stop thinking about this but yeah if you want to go buy a nice car go buy a nice car my goodness gracious what's the psychology

there john i think he's got a hundred thousand dollars burner holmes pocket i think he doesn't want to spend it though yeah but you're getting that mick like i've had that where it's the kind of an uppity feeling i drive an old truck and i think i got a nice j what am i doing and then i got to go back to say this truck's great it's getting me where

i need to be i've got other goals right my goal as a reverse of his i want to pay my house off first right so i'm gonna try to and by the way nothing wrong with the truck he said nothing's wrong with the truck so keep driving the truck just wants it to what do i do if it dies

get another one you got a hundred grand scott he needs to take a couple deep breaths you got a breathing regimen for him yeah it's just he's tight man it's just that's right

again one of those not too complex things yeah fantastic they can go get the wemhop app and uh learn how to breathe triple eight eight two five five two two five you're listening to the ramsey show let's go north of the border toronto ontario where vinnie joins us vinnie you're on the ramsay show hi how are you guys doing oh we're having a blast what's up vinny so yeah my situation is um

i'm basically a recent college graduate i got twenty thousand dollars in debt uh the thing is that i'm since the pandemic it's been a struggle trying to get a job and everything so you know i've been always trying to you know go get into real estate investing it's been like my dream goal not my dream goal but like one of the things i really want to do

and you know the situation that i'm in right now it's pretty like you know i would say like it's losing my confidence on a daily basis so i'm just wondering like what like i'm just trying to get some sort of advice out here you know in order for me to deal with the situation well first of all don't attach your confidence to and your ability to eventually be a real estate investor to your current situation

so your situation vinnie is not your sentence this isn't a life sentence you're not a loser all of a sudden because you're recently out of college and you got student loan debt you're having a hard time get a job you need to separate those two number one and then let's get serious about getting hired if it's two or three part-time jobs just to get yourself some momentum right now

the quickest way to get out of a rut is to get busy is to do something but sitting around and commiserating

not that not that that's what you're doing but just sitting around and soaking in your frustration is not the way to move forward get to work start making some money follow the baby steps knock the 20 000 out a young guy like you should be able to do that sacrifice big time john what would you add to that vinny do you want to get into real estate

so you can try to short circuit the deal you're going to borrow some money grab a house flip it try to earn that cash and then roll and roll is that what you're talking about yeah that like yeah flipping it and all that stuff yeah yeah but you got to do that with cash here's what's gonna happen you're gonna go buy three properties you're gonna leverage yourself to

the hilt the market's lost its freaking mind and then you're gonna it's gonna roll over on you and you're gonna be bust yeah the market right now here in toronto is messed up like it's uh dude that's always just one no listen brother you're way you're years away from real estate investing i don't want to be the the guy that has feelings but you're way far away right now

you need to learn if you want to go sell houses and get a real estate license and go work in a real estate office and learn how the thing works

listen to what he just said vinnie that's the deal you learn the business but brother yes don't go take a bunch of loans out and try to roll some houses over because it's going to roll right on top of you and you're going to be bust go pay your loans off and scratch and claw and scratch the clock ken gave you the best psychological advice when you get in a rut go do something yeah don't just sit there vinny get to work three part-time jobs six part-time jobs pay the debt off get

qualified if you want to be in real estate use the proximity principle hang on the line kelly let's give him a copy of my book start getting around people that are doing what you want to do but you better do it the cash way that means you got to get to work and work for a while and sell a bunch of houses save all that money buy a ca a house

cash and begin that process you can get

there but you're gonna have to work your way there vinnie come on man get out of the house get to work don't

move this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john delonia we're taking you through this hour of the ramsey show find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best deal today's question there you

go from barbara in virginia john all right barbara asks my husband and i are debt-free except for a zero percent car loan of thirteen thousand dollars should we pay it off or continue with the 548 dollar a month payment

we are retired and have monthly income of six thousand dollars our retirement portfolio is one million dollars yes paid off yesterday and then be done

the only thing i wish you would have done in reading that was do the dr evil 1 million dollars yeah simple

because here's the thing it's not a you're not playing a math game you're a millionaire yeah you're paying you're playing a how many change are hitched behind me how many people am i subject to and right now you are willingly subject to a bank for no financial reason not because you have to not because you're stuck not because you don't have enough money you're just choosing every week to be indebted to a bank

and at that point it your dollar amount doesn't make any sense yeah good stuff there triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to orlando florida where chuck is on the line chuck how can we help hey how are you guys

what's going on hey uh my

two ac systems in the house uh are about

12 years old and they tell me from about 10 to 15 that they're gonna die uh-oh and uh it's gonna run about

dollars 11 replace them and uh

i have um i have a good savings account and i have some stock so my question is should i pay it all off or you know finance consider financing it i just don't know don't finance the air conditioning just just do not do that how much do you have in savings uh about 12 000. okay do you have any

other debt uh no i'm debt-free except for the mortgage okay is that 12 000 include your emergency fund or is that above that uh it does it does okay well that's why

we have stock how much in stock 46 000

just in single stocks or company stock uh single stocks uh i i invest myself

okay yeah i would actually sell the single stock and roll that into an emergency fund of some sort and then you've got your twelve thousand dollars to um pay your air conditioners off and then you owe nobody any money you're not gonna take a loan out on a depreciating asset which would be the air conditioners the day you put them in are gonna start losing value what's your income chuck what do you bring home uh about 60 a year okay and uh

how much based on your budget right now how much are you putting away a month or how much could you if you move the budget around a little bit how much could you put away each month towards the ac replacement fund

um well

i die geez

probably that's a good question probably

four or five hundred dollars all right i think you got a couple options there right we you know range of solutions we don't you know we're not saying that you know being in stocks is evil or wrong we just don't recommend it because it's a real roller coaster you can get hurt uh so i think john gave you a great option but i just wanted you to to have in your mind wait a second if i could put 400 a month away right now the units are working correct

um yes they are yeah so well yes and no

uh actually the uh inside unit is uh

got a slow leak on it oh they went ahead and charged it a couple of days ago and um so it's on its way out yeah but

let me but let me say this i've been down this road before i've owned four houses now and i've had this happen and here's what i know about text they'll come out there and they'll tell you all the things wrong with it's like the mechanic doesn't mean they're evil but that's just the way they roll and they go this thing's gonna die somewhere between uh year 12

and year or whatever and all of a sudden what does that do our emotions go oh my gosh the clock is ticking well first of all the tech doesn't know exactly when it's going to die or he wouldn't be doing

hvac repair all right he'd be in the prediction business second thing is even though that hose is leaking you know there's i like to always ask okay i get it i get that i'm going to have to replace this can i fix that but how much is it going to cost to fix the hose and keep that going because if we could keep that going and extend the life of this thing with some uh every once in a while repairs that's

not going to be a big financial hit to you you've got the emergency fund for that very reason and if you begin to save 400 bucks a month to replacing one of those units well you can do the math you know you know how quickly you can get there and and begin at least take care of one i seriously doubt that both are going to quit the same day

so i just don't want you to act out of fear is my point let's act out of facts what are the facts right now and let's go that direction and chuck here here's a an interesting way to think of it following ken's line of thinking you can either start saving money on your own now or you can finance this thing and pay that same money on the back end to somebody else i'd much rather own my own destiny in that in that scenario yeah right

and again john's advice was

really good you've got stock yeah if i'm you if i if yeah if i'm in your situation i sell the stock tomorrow i it's everything's rocking and rolling i sell the stock i've got emergency fund there is no no drama in my house and then i'd i'd probably just go ahead and replace them yeah call it good yeah if that's if that's if you're really worried about

it but you know you're not getting hopefully not getting killed in the stock market and you're up right now go ahead and use that that is your money and uh that's a really risky thing we'd really love for you to consider our investment strategy and reach out to a smart investor pro go to ramseysolutions.com find a smart investor pro or two or three in your area and interview them

and start that investment strategy that way but you've got options here you've got several options but one thing i don't like is when when we feel like you know something's wrong with the car i mean i can tell you how many times i've had mechanics go well this is this is probably gonna happen and i go has it happened no it hasn't happened it's probably gonna happen okay great

and about what is that going to cost when it happens okay just and you just got that money

and i'm just wait what happened yeah i'm not going to just drive that car every day going gee i hope this doesn't happen today if it happens we got the aaa we'll get her over there we'll fix it i you know just this oh i've gotta move money now i gotta come up with money now it's like do you sometimes the answer is unequivocally yes yeah but sometimes it's like no actually well

before i go buy two air conditioning systems let me have somebody else come out and look at them and get a second opinion before i go spend 12 grand you know yeah that's a you know what that's a great point this is the kind of thing i would really do i'm glad you brought this up i'm telling my wife she's on facebook right i'm not on facebook i'm going to facebook

the whole neighborhood we live in a neighborhood the neighborhood's got a page there's all these next door apps i don't know all the stuff that i'm i'm not on i mean you could go hey anybody got some hvac experience i'm getting some i'm getting some different stories here i got a story that seems pretty gruesome anybody you know you just never know some guy goes yeah i do

it i'm your neighbor i'll come over and take a look at it why wouldn't you exhaust all options before you decide to chunk 12 grand into two new units now the thing going for this guy is and i get it he's in orlando it's it's about to get hotter than the surface of the sun you need some air conditioning that's right yeah i i yeah you know what i'm saying yeah it's it's that fear thing

you talked about yeah you know i get the temptation to man i'll just let's just do it right now i'll figure out how to pay for it later and no we're not there let's just be intentional yeah yeah i mean goodness gracious i

i grew up in houston so i know what happens when the air conditioner goes out is it hotter in houston texas in july or orlando florida i don't know i think it's about the same yeah it's just once it crosses the 110 mark it just hurts yeah kelly's shaking her head i think the humidity in texas and florida is probably equal and that's really what's going on

you know the humidity is unbelievable but you know john we talked about this early i want people to get this we have a little bit of fun here with chuck but you know john's right you know i've learned this from you and i talk about this too when you've got a fear write it out get it out of your head and let's see if it's really really truly something

i should be afraid of if i stand close to the fire get burned that's a real fear if i try this career i'm going to be homeless and live under a bridge that's not or if it costs 125 bucks to recharge american engineers for the next three months yeah i got 90 days to yeah get some other opinions and ideas and solutions don't they make some kind of tape for that kind of stuff it's got to be some tape at lowe's or home depot

i don't [Applause] [Music]

well i don't know how to fix anything so i i willingly step into the laughter there folks hey i'll tell you what i do know we're coming back to continue to help you this is the ramsay show

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you're listening to the ramsey show thrilled to have you with us triple eight eight two five five two two five i'm ken coleman joined by dr john delony and we are talking about your life your relationships your money your work

your career path mental health we're talking about it all triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to ann arbor

michigan home of my beloved michigan wolverines andrew joins us there andrew how can we help hey john hey ken how you guys doing today we're having a blast what's up ah my wife and i are 25 years old and uh

we're looking to have kids in the next three to five years um we don't want to look back and regret not ever moving out of state um so i was just kind of looking for some advice what what do you what's the regret you fear uh just staying in the city so we live in a small town just outside ann arbor our kind of fear is that

you never go to the mountains you're never never really get to live or experience living out of state we have a lot of family members that are kind of doing that and it's something that we're just kind of considering so why don't you just go move well it's always come back to finances and uh the projection of our future right well why not travel have you traveled to some of

these places that you wonder about living in yes sir

yes um so we we would love to go down to

tennessee um there's there's opportunities with my company um there's also opportunities to go down to the carolinas um really a lot of regions that we'd like to live but we when we have kids we want to be back here in michigan so the kind of question i have for you um goes

back to our debt we currently have about 15 000 in savings that's including our our emergency fund we have about 98 thousand dollars in mortgage debt um we have seventy thousand dollars saved in our retirement and combined we make a pre-tax and pre-contribution income of a hundred and thirty-five thousand dollars um so i guess the the question i have is

and we're projected to i'm protected to pay off the house between august and october of next year um

so i guess my my question goes back to whether we should should just wait a year um

how much is your house worth andrew how much is your house worth and i know you've got 98 000 left so what would it sell for right now give me a modest projection uh i would think around

between 230 and 250 thousand dollars bro

i don't know what you're worried about i'm gonna let john speak this move to the psychology but as long as you don't have an interruption in income um you guys you're debt free except your home you could pay the home off right now right now if you sell it right now you guys have got big time cash and if you replace your income you said there are opportunities in the carolinas and opportunities in tennessee take the opportunities and you know what if you wanna if you wanna have kids in three to five years by the way you have no control over that zero okay but let's just say that plays out for you um listen to andrew you guys could rent for two or three years it's not a sin to rent you're debt-free if you're gonna come back eventually or you you might have enough money it sounds like you might gonna have enough money to put a nice down payment on something else and sell that when the kids come along john you want to speak to the fear here it's bigger than that you may have find some wonderful community in tennessee or the carolinas in three to five years never come back and never go back and so what you're what you're doing is you're projecting the other side of a coin while you're you're projecting what living in on the tail side is going to be where you live on the head side and so you're never gonna know until you go and here's what you're looking for you're looking for an iron clad should we or shouldn't we that doesn't exist you're just gonna have to jump or you're gonna have to be really happy that you didn't jump or like my family we always said him we'd love to live outside of texas it was until we were in our late late 30s before we finally made the jump and our kids were young and we never thought we'd do that and we did and so you put some artificial constraints on yourself and then you're bound in by these artificial constraints and feel like you can't move and then feeling like you can't move makes you frustrated and your wife frustrated you're only 25.

okay okay so um

i um i have a business um

it's a waxing business in the springs i've got two employees just this week i signed

another year lease thinking it was just a normal situation to go ahead and sign another year lease

for the two suites that i do rent from from my landlord last night i found out

the landlord is planning on on selling the buildings um and i just signed the lease this week

and found out yesterday my question is

because a real estate is so crazy here and really hot in the springs um would it be advantageous

to look into purchasing my own building

a little bit about my husband and i um my business cleared about a hundred thousand dollars last year after tax um and we um

we owe 182 000 on our house

we were hoping to go ahead and have our

house fully paid for in a year and a half uh and we make about 2.95 total between my husband and i um

can you afford to buy a building with cash well we don't have the for a commercial

property from my understanding you're supposed to have 25 to 30 percent down to purchase the the building now my

landlord would love to sell it to me but she wants to sell it for 750 thousand dollars so i would have to probably have two hundred and twenty five thousand dollars jenny jenny jenny you didn't answer his question but we know the answer the answer is no you don't have the cash to buy a building so if you don't have the cash to buy a building this is not a good decision for

you and i don't think you have anything to worry about just because your current landlord is selling the building whoever the new owner is going to be they want people renting leasing from them i just don't see with the business you've got going this is an unnecessary question it's just you don't even need to think about buying anything at all just keep going what

okay really like what if there was a property that was less than that that i could occupy the majority of the space and then have and not even have a landlord what if a meteorite comes directly at us at any moment

or whatever my car gets a jet engine put

here's the thing you can what if and you it's they're all going to be right and fun and adventurous what ifs and the chances of them coming through what i don't want you to do is to go to colorado springs take out a giant mortgage on a building have that entire market slow down and you're stuck with a building you can't fully fund or you can't fully lease or you're going to have to undersell

the market you're going to find yourself in a mess and then you go from being a business owner to a business that's doing really good to being a landowner right to being a

someone who's in the real estate business which is a whole other business so it all sounds good if you can walk in and pay cash for a building awesome great do it tomorrow if you can't don't bind yourself up into a whole other adventure and i know you can sit down and flip over a napkin and make the math work for you um i wouldn't do that jenny you and your

husband make really good money your business is growing you got a new landlord and it somehow freaked you out and then you've created a worse scenario than actually just continuing to step forward you're holding a year lease in your hand big deal you're good you're fine you got

this stay the course hey i want to thank our producer ben hill our associate producer kelly daniel and my colleague dr john deloney but most of all we want to thank you america this is your show this is the ramsey show

hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to thermzyshow.com thanks for listening

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney and we are a part of the ramsey network and we are your hosts this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll talk about your money we'll talk about your emotional and

mental health we'll talk about your job are you just working a job you wanna make more money you wanna get that shovel bigger so you can get out of debt faster you want to actually work on purpose and enjoy mondays well that's what we talk about on the ken coleman show and dr john delaney helping you on all things emotional mental health relationships and we'll talk about your money as well

triple eight eight two five five two two five let's start it off with amanda in colorado springs colorado amanda how

can we help hey guys oh my goodness thank you so much for taking my call it's such an honor to speak with you guys well the honor is all ours what's going on today okay so i want to make this as concise as possible um i am 33 years old

and i have a really rare

terminal illness um that is in

the essentially what i've been told is kind of the end stages um and really at this point i'm kind of out living the timeline that doctors have actually given me um which

is amazing and you know um i'm still believing that

the lord could heal me and um but realistically i feel like my body is failing and um

i have grown up with the dave ramsey

principles i'm out of debt i got to live my dream

job in ministry and do all the things um but

i am kind of right now unsure

um and feel like i'm in kind of uncharted territory as far as what to do with finances um

in the like few in the like

present day life

um and how to set myself up well not knowing um kind of as i call it like terminal

without a timeline so i like i said i'm out of debt and i have um because of some disability back pay and some different things i have some money and so because of my

illness i wasn't able to like withstand

the cold of colorado winter so i came down to florida and lived

for what i thought was kind of going to be the ending like last six months of my life and i'm still here um but i i don't know kind of how to

navigate and um yeah so

i just wanted to kind of get some perspective on that well amanda you you're just you're telling of your story is giving us all uh perspective on our

own lives i don't know that there's a person in the united states that's listening to this that didn't just stop for a second turn the radio up and so thank you so much for being brave and for telling us about that and um from the bottom of the heart i'm heartbroken for you and your attitude and bravery and way you are making meaning of this is an inspiration to me personally to

all of us is how do you stare what we all know is coming right how we stare in the face and also be able to

to recognize and find beauty in every day and we get to live our dream job and hey i'm gonna go six months and ride out the last few months in in florida a place i want to be and now what do i do so um thank you so much for sharing your story with us yeah um so it sounds like there's two parts to this number one is

the personal and the second is the financial when you say you want to know what to do with your money explain that a little bit are you wondering who to leave it to do you have enough money to get through treatment or tell me what your money concerns are kind of all the above and so

i like i said um i

was actually kind of in a um

not really feeling like i was debt-free and that kind of thing um but then um once i kind of navigated through um like disability and different things

and now um i get a small amount of disability each month um i just i guess for me

do oh how about this do you have enough money to pay your bills i do yeah i do and i um

are you single do you have anybody that is a dependent okay i'm totally single my mom was a single mom and so really she's the only person that

i'm connected to and um yeah so i guess the thing is

i have enough money that i could live for a pretty long amount of time i think probably longer than i can um but i guess it's just that fear of spending it like frivolously um you know just living you know without

like i've always been a hard worker and i've always like been self-sufficient and so just to like

not have a plan and i don't know i guess

that's what i'm asking is is i feel like the dave ramsey way is

to always have a plan yeah i don't know so yeah

your plan in your heart and mind you know how to make a financial plan um honey you've got enough money to

get you to the end of the ride and so your goal now is not like debt free your goal is not everyday millionaire that's not your goal your goal is to slide in to

the end with no tread left on your tires in a safe and responsible way obviously but your your last months your last year

can be about service can be about visiting people that you want to visit can be about um walking dog it can be about anything you want it to be because quite frankly you're a you're

literally an angel that i'm speaking to right now yeah and so it's surreal to have outlived the

outlived right they gave you a short deadline and that's you grieved it and then you went to

you you set off into your ship for your last ride and then the ride went all the way around and then you landed back to shore now you're kind of yeah you don't know what to do right and so well i started a blog called terminal ain't terrible because i'm like just gotta live the rest of my life there you go so i wanna hear what you wanna do is

there people you wanna go visit is it serving the least of these you sound like a person who is so committed to other people what are the things that you want to do you get a rare moment you get a rare moment that many folks won't have which is i've got a clear heart and a clear mind and i am financially okay and but i i know

the end is near i know it's coming what do you want to do yeah well i've

done a lot of writing um i um you know i i listened to

ken's radio show and kind of was like trying to figure out like a job with like writing and creating a blog and monetizing it but i think like perspective-wise that was a little bit like time-wise not gonna work um amanda here's what i would tell you number one we're we're going to be praying for you as john said you inspired us listen you need to decide you want to leave some money for mom

if you don't have a will get a will kelly will connect you if you need that but i would decide how you're going to live and it's about relationships from here on from here on out that's jobs it's all relationships and i love that you're writing but it really is about what you want to do this is you leaving your mark we're honored that you called us that

you shared this story amanda make it count this is the ramsay

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show hey folks i got a great option to help you pay for your education the army national guard the army national guard believes you are the next greatest generation because you have proven that even in adversity that you have what it takes to succeed that's why they offer benefits like tuition assistance career training and a paycheck to help you avoid debt no matter what your goals are the army national guard can help you get there visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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the ramsay show continues from our ramsey solutions worldwide headquarters in nashville so excited that you've joined us i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dolone and we're taking your calls this hour on your life your money your relationships your mental emotional health your work

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let's go to the city of angels los angeles california nancy joins us on the line there nancy how can we help

hi it's an honor you guys to speak to you both well he honors our all ours how can we help well i'm calling because

i'm in a bit of a conundrum i'm 46 years

old i'm a single mom and i am about to start baby step 3b

but i am concerned because um

i don't have very much saved for retirement i do have a pension but

my dream is to someday own a home

and while i'm you know cash flowing my daughter's college as well i'm just kind of wondering what should i do should i begin to save for retirement and just kind of

um not be as intense in terms of saving

for the down payment i know it's going to slow me down or should i just focus my efforts in saving for the down payment and make sure that when i am ready to purchase that home that i can pay it off before i retire why are you cash flowing your daughter's college i'm sorry um why are you cash flowing your daughter's college um because i don't want her to you know

be in the same situation that i was in

i mean i had a lot of student loans

and um i just wanted to make sure that she's you know shut up and that when she graduates that she doesn't have so i'll let ken talk through the money part but i've seen this with parents over the years working in colleges and they end up making a trade unintentionally and the trade is i don't want my students to have student loan debt because i remember the pain of that

and so instead of investing in their retirement they put that money into the college fund and what that what that means is instead of the kid having student loans to pay off or having to figure out another college option that may be cheaper less prestigious et cetera they assure that mom's gonna have to move in and that kid's gonna have to pay for mom and old age

so there's a hundred percent chance that you're gonna have to retire there's a hundred percent chance you're gonna get old and there is a million options

other than having to cash flow your kids college and it ends up just being a reverse burden it's going to be a different one but it's still going to exist there if that makes sense and so i'll pass it on again i i just want to put that out there because i see i hear and see parents do that all the time your priority right now has got to be making sure you've got a home making sure you've got retirement and then working to figure out a solution for your daughter in college yeah nancy you're a great mom first of all i mean yes you're just got a huge heart and i understand why you're doing what you're doing but john's absolutely right this is not your burden and if you walk the baby steps out okay and you know the baby steps so you're in the 3b which is kind of developed over time right the baby step 4 is 15 toward retirement and then we move towards the college and all that stuff and so you're just in a situation where you're behind the eight ball there and i think you feel that burden and you shouldn't feel the burden i think i think you and your daughter got to figure something out what i want to know is is what's your income about 105 a year 105.

opportunity for my income to to increase um how much are you putting towards your daughter what's your monthly spend on the daughter's education not very much she she understood

from the very beginning that she had to stay here in california and she's doing state college in roughly a year um i pay about two thousand dollars

two thousand dollars four thousand dollars a year for for her tuition and books because her father does help okay so you're putting forth very okay that's good that's really good i'm glad to hear that that that is good um but again i think what john said is right i mean what we want to see you do is is really begin to get on your on your uh your retirement

because she can earn four thousand dollars she can earn four thousand dollars i'd like to see that four thousand dollars going towards you know again if you want to save for the house that's fine but you need to be on if you really want to buy how long you've been renting by the way i'm

curious since uh since forever um i didn't

really discover dave ramsey until about three years ago yeah hold on a second i don't want you to feel guilt over that i hear tremendous guilt and shame over that that's not that's not a bad thing nancy i want to set you free from that the reason i asked is it's not a sin to rent when financially you're not in a position to buy a home and you're not

and i love that you're going after baby step 3b but i also want you to to be looking at your retirement portfolio and that was my next question so i don't we got to keep moving here but don't feel guilt over that yeah i i rent i've rented for years and years i just recently bought so it's all good yeah you're not wasting money nancy now where are

you at retirement to this moment what do you what do you have say for retirement um well like i said i do have a pension um and as soon as i mean i didn't really know very much about investing i have about i don't know i would say about 30k in annuities um and i stopped that completely once i decided to you know follow the steps

so i haven't really invested a whole lot

and that's why i think i'm feeling this sense of of panic and i keep telling myself well there is a pension but i know that well hey don't be done don't be panicked uh i thought you told me you were 46 years young did i remember that correctly that is correct come on let's hear it nancy for 1974.

i'm 46 as well so nancy i don't think

i'm i don't think i'm old so i i promise you i don't think you're old so number one no more panic no more guilt and shame over rent can i get an amen doc yeah and no more panic here's and listen listen listen no more guilt and shame over parenting yeah more guilt and shame over the relationship that didn't work out you got this no more of

it so nancy here real quick we got to run through some things have you met with one of our smart vester pros and not yet you need to go to ramseysolutions.com as soon as this call is over and as dave has taught us and we say the same thing i want you to interview three four five until you get one that feels like they definitely have the heart of

the teacher and you've got a connection with them i want you to sit down and let them see your stuff and say i just called the ramsay show and here's where i am now i've got a little bit of panic and i know i need a plan and an absent of a plan the brain goes wild

and then we we get panicky so i want you to get with a good smart investor pro and begin to map this thing out the four thousand dollars we need to bring that back in and we need to either put that towards baby step 3b uh let's look at your current 401k whatever you've got going on at work let's let's work towards that but but i want

you to sit down and figure out what a real retirement plan looks like and i think you're going to go okay i do have time i can be really gazelle intense now at this level too and i can catch up it's not too late and there is an entire culture built around making moms especially single moms feel like you are a perpetual screw-up

you've done everything wrong and you'll continue to that is a lie you're a great mom you're in a position now you're not too late to turn it around you have turned it around and now it's getting the right people in your corner to get down this new path you're on it nancy you're rocking and rolling i'm so proud of you yep take your time take a deep breath the house will be there when you're ready for it this is the ramsay show

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the ramsay show continues from ramsey solutions headquarters in nashville i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney so grateful that you have joined us it is your show america and therefore

we have a phone number for you to jump in triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two

five five two two five let's

go to joe who joins us in harrisburg pennsylvania joe you're on the ramsay show hey hey ken hey dr john how are you guys doing we are having a blast what's it all about for you today okay so i'm 23 um i just graduated

college in may and i'm a i'm actually a personal finance teacher it uses dave's high school curriculum oh great thank you my question is i have

twelve thousand five hundred dollars left on my student loans and i do a monthly budget um as i should as a personal finance teacher i go um yes but i have haven't planned out

that i'll be debt-free um by the end of summer so end of august that's how i haven't budged it out because i'm still living at home with my parents um so i'm able to save a lot of money like that i've already paid off like about twenty thousand dollars good for you my question is though since they are in deferment until september and there's all this talk about

you know the possibility of some uh of the debt being forgiven like i'm not planning on that but would it be wrong of me to put my money in the savings account that i've budgeted every month until september in case it happens then once september hits and it doesn't happen i just pay that 12 500 off because my next step would be buying a house and i just would be an awful feeling in my stomach

if i could have ten thousand gone i could put that towards the house yeah i you know that's a very logical question john and joe i'm gonna tell you something um there was a point in my life where it was a possibility that i was going to be able to dunk a basketball at least that was really that was the thought no no no it never was a possibility that i'm making my point here

and i don't think it's a possibility that the government's going to pay your loans off i just don't see it happening i think it's i think it's one in a million chance it happens uh but to answer your question answer your question straightforward it's not wrong you know but that's not what we're going to recommend i don't think it's morally wrong it just puts yourself in a temptation to

if you put that aside and you stop the plan a plan that you're going to execute in just a few months at the end of the summer it creates all levels of temptation then my colleague is far uh far more qualified to talk about the psychological there and so that's why we're never going to recommend that you do that but it's not morally wrong joe here's here's my heart on

it you're a smart guy is that correct i i

think so that's like the impossible question i know i set you up here so you are a smart guy you wouldn't be a finance he's like uh no john hey so

at the end of the day where i struggle with this is a guy who me and my wife have what

seven degrees between us we had

six figures of student loans and then i started con using student loans to consolidate cars and credit i went bananas with student loans all right yeah here's the thing

nobody tricked me every i didn't i

didn't i didn't count the cost i didn't sit there and add them up every semester and see what i you know how deep the hole was but i didn't know to do that right so at the end was that kind of due to it but here's the thing i signed my name to a piece of paper and that paper said hey if you'll help me get through college i'll pay you back and so for me this is an integrity question and you are somebody who has a a

blessing and that your parents and you get along you're allowed to stay there and save up this money and there's something in my soul that wouldn't sleep right knowing that i waited on the government to bail me out of the choice that i made an integrity decision that i signed a piece of paper saying i'll pay you back um because you helped me get through school and

so you have the ability to work really hard and be debt free on your own two feet in a few months and there's a part of me that as a guy who's walked alongside students for so many years what i'm going to tell you is you're going to have your head held high brother and if if you pay it all off in august in september they say hey we're waving 10 grand you're going to go you're going to turn around

and what you're going to do is like most americans should you're going to get indignant you're going to say wait a minute i just worked my butt off to complete the agreement that i signed and you're just going to wipe and then you're gonna say well so it is i stood up on my own two feet and not paid it off you can join the uh ken coleman grumpy old man club

because i paid mine off and my wife paid hers off married yeah and it's like i don't think they should defer that i don't think they should uh get pay these things off i don't like it i don't think it's right all right then if you agree then keep walking it forward i just didn't want the fomo you know hey you know what listen you're gonna have fomo whether you're just learn now that fomo's a choice

right it's a choice that's a great call and you know what else joe you're rocking it man yeah pay these things off you can still live with mom and dad a little longer and save up for that house payment or whatever take your time i gotta tell you this john it's very

normal but now being 46

having gone through the early 20s i got married at 23. okay yeah i get it

but you don't have to buy a house no

to prove that you're a success or that you aren't a loser or whatever the narrative is joe doesn't have to be in a hurry to buy a house not that it's man if you if you get an apartment at 23 you're just pouring your money down the drain you're just flushing it down the toilet no you're not no you're not you learn how to grow up you're saving some money outside of mom

and dad's house right and we're not talking about you joe talking about anybody who's 23 man and you have the opportunity to live at home it's a it's a healthy situation you pay those loans off really fast and then go live in an apartment for a few years yeah slow down save your money let this market cool off have cash in your hand and go put down 20 30 40 percent on a house

when people

need to get out you're gonna get a great deal on house yeah just everybody exhale for a second especially you 22 23 24 year olds yeah i mean renting is not a sin we got to say that over and over and over let's go to houston texas where jessica joins us jessica you're on the ramsay show hi how are you we're having a blast jessica what's going on

so my husband and i have completed uh

baby steps one through three good

way to go jessica thank you thank you

we're very proud of it um and we are currently

we currently just finished baby step three but we found it to be very difficult because we recently just welcomed our first baby in december yes yes yes and we were told that we had

to pay a third amount for us to have our baby at the hospital so we paid that it was in the budget we paid it but the problem is is that we keep receiving medical bills from myself and my son's

stay at the hospital so we found with step three it was a constant we were saving for three to six months and then stopping and then saving and then stopping to pay off the medical bills um and now that we're transitioning to step four um we're not sure how to

still treat the medical bills if we should still treat it like it's a debt because we're fighting that we're constantly starting and stopping because we just received these random medical bills from when from the birth of our son so i am in a similar situation not with a baby but i went i had to go to the er um over the christmas holidays and i went in there and in the er they

had this you know it was like a robot on an ipad and they brought them out and they said here's what the cost is going to be and i have an hsa so i paid the hsa

and the the amount they wanted i didn't have that much in my hsa account and so they said well we'll just move the what you owe us down i said i don't want to cash pay i want to give you any insurance just want to pay cash and get out of here so they moved it down and i have this recorded i said you're telling me this is

the final bill forever this is it they're like yes your cash pay you're gonna be able to walk out of here we're gonna all high five i said it again and again and again and there's this thing saying this call is being recorded and it's flashing up there right and then just the other day i got another bill so what'd you do i'm gonna call the hospital

and say you're gonna check your records i'm not gonna pay anymore we agreed on this i gave you this cash and what i think i don't always think it's the hospital's fault i think different departments build differently but there's a central department that says here's the cause they need to get their house in order so what i would do is fight this and give them a call say here's what

we agreed on i'm not paying this anymore and if you send me the collections i'm gonna go get a great attorney in houston okay don't let him take advantage of you you paid your bills you'd be done with it go fight this jessica all right don't move

more ramsey show right after the break

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this is the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney and we're taking your calls about your life your money your relationships

your work triple eight eight two five five two two five our scripture of the day

hebrews 10 23 and 24 let us hold

unswervingly to the hope we profess for he who promised is faithful and let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds our quote

of the day from anne frank no one has ever become poor

by giving that's powerful stuff

triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to boise idaho where roberto joins us roberto you're on the ramsay show hey guys thank you for having me you bet what's going on hey so just a question i'm 24 years old

i'm a new registered nurse i just graduated in december congratulations man thank you i appreciate that the only debt that i have is something that i did pretty dumb about a month ago i purchased a new truck

so it's about twenty four thousand dollars in debt okay now i wanna go back to grad school in like two to three years to be a anesthesiologist and the average

cost of the entire three-year program is about 130 000 depending on what school you go to

so i've been having some like buyers regret and i wanted to get someone's opinion like do i sell the truck and focus on saving for school

or do i just pay off the truck first and then go from there i didn't know if i if i sold the truck if i needed to treat the future debt like how i would in baby step two and just focus on you know saving up all that money for school how much is the truck worth

so the truck is worth i'd say

19 000. the extra like four or five grand was for like the maintenance and the warranty and stuff how much do you make right now so i make uh every month

i make i would say 1700 uh i'm sorry

man you're nursing at the wrong place yeah 3 500 a month and how old are you i'm 24.

okay yeah i mean get rid of the truck

you know but you got to have something you got to have something to uh to drive i'm guessing or are you in a situation where you could use public transportation to get to your job i have no idea what boise idaho is looking like and where you're at what are your transportation needs yeah i'd probably have to buy a car i have about like four four thousand five thousand dollars saved up yeah let me tell you something i want you this is what i want you to do tonight before you go to bed i want you to go on autotrader.com or find other cars.com i don't care i'm not endorsing any website i'm just telling you go go to one of those websites and just and just put in your budget and see what's out there i think it's going to blow your mind of how much quality something that will get you a and b and it doesn't look like you know rats have been living in it um and i think that's what you do and you get this debt out of your life and now you're back to square one when you're debt free and then i'd get after i'd get after it i'd work i'd take as much overtime i don't know what the options are for you as a nurse there but you know you want to save up and cash flow your way through this the other thing i want to challenge you on is you said on average the schooling you want to do is 130 000.

like a hundred i'd go 100.

and let me tell you why nobody

i mean nobody roberto cares where you

went to school take the cheapest option if it's viable

take the cheapest option don't go don't go average go the lowest cost possible and i would delay it i i'd work my tail off and i'd delay it until i have it all in the bank because it's just not going to be worth it i promise you and roberto i want you to hear what you're saying the next three years right you're 24 years old you're playing a 30 year old game as a 24 year old you're gonna work every weekend you're gonna work every night you're gonna stack that money

and stack it and stack it and stack it and then you're gonna go pay cash and you along the way you're gonna develop a reputation as a great nurse i was going to say killer nurse and that had a bad connotation yeah you're going to be recognized as a great nurse you're going to get some extraordinary experiences because there's difference of working the night shift as the morning shift

you know that and then you're going to be ready to exhale and go to a graduate program get your feet underneath you you're going to pay cash and you're going to come out as a 28 29 year old making a jillion dollars as a nurse anesthesiologist and you're going to have no debt and then it's going to be game on brother and listen don't just hear what john said

i want you to feel the truth behind what john said because when you do that he just gave you a beautiful fast forward into the future and when you come out that way there's going to be other people in that anesthesia program that are just crushed by debt and every nickel they're making is going just to keep their nose above water i want you to feel that future

i want you to feel the difference if you can if you can place yourself in where your other uh fellow students will be versus where john placed you that will keep you from being tempted i'm telling you the degree is there the anesthesiology jobs are there the money are there but please please please do it the right way here's a picture what that looks like as i was a dean of students of a law school

and then i went back to get a second degree i drove an old corolla like an 01

or a 2000 corolla because i was going to put my money over here versus over there didn't make me any better than anybody else did anything like that and man my buddies gave me a hard time my my friends and colleagues and they should have right i looked ridiculous but it was an internal decision i want

this more than this right and so i want him to know man you can keep pulling into that same hospital parking lot over the next two three four years in a used honda or a used whatever

you're not gonna press anybody that's not your goal right now your goal is a debt free walking across that graduation stage as an anesthesiologist a nurse anesthesiologist owing nobody anything and then then brother the world is yours right yeah now you're talking about stacking money and anywhere in the country right you could go anywhere with that degree yep you know i want i want to stay here

because i think this is such a it's such a temptation and it's such a it's a mental mountain for people to get over an emotional mountain to get over let's play this out so if if somebody

does it the way everybody else if roberto does it the way everybody else does it he's not going to he's already told us that

you come out and you're so burdened by

debt and you realize that okay i got the degree i got the job i'm making good money but i'm not tasting the fruits of that i'm not seeing the fruit of that i i know i'm making it but it's disappearing and then all of a sudden the resentment and frustration begin to build and it becomes toxic and then they call it ken coleman show john they go i'm burned out

i don't i don't i don't i gotta i gotta find a new career and i go what and we dive into it we find out no you don't you're just miserable you're resenting yourself you're resenting the job because you're having to work crazy hours and you don't find yourself getting ahead and you go did i make the wrong decision you didn't make the wrong decision on the work is what

i find most of the time

you made the wrong decision financially and then you just never get hit versus holding off here and he comes out and goes man i'm doing the work i love i'm in my sweet spot but boy oh boy i'm also like in high school when we were getting in shape we had to pull tires yeah right you sprint you're pulling that tire behind you and man you sure can run fast

when you're in a game when you don't have a tire behind you right not the truth and that's debt right you can run anywhere you want to yeah it's awesome so you got to be careful it's such a great exercise john to get out there in front of it and go wait a second what's the desired future if i don't do the debt what's the future look like

if i am straddled you know or saddled rather with debt you know and because well here's his life he's got a 24 000 truck he's gonna go to work in a high stress high yes a secondary traumatic stress gig is hard his buddies are going to want to get off shift and go hang out go eat go hang out go eat he's going to meet somebody they're going to bring dead into that relationship too

and then they're going to need to buy a house and then he's going to want to go to grad school and then suddenly you're going to look up and like you mentioned you're going to be living life underwater yeah as opposed to just biting down on your mouthpiece for a couple of years going in there swinging and you turn around 26 27 years old yeah man you set your

you set your entire legacy up and it's so frustrating ken and it's so hard i know here's here's what i found just about anybody says i'm willing to do what it takes you betcha but then you say are you willing to wait as long as it takes whoa hold on that's good everybody's

willing to do what it takes very few are willing to wait as long as it takes that's the difference patience is the magic you got to have it hey i want to thank my colleague dr john deloney always fun to be with you pal want to thank our producer ben hill i want to thank kelly daniel our associate producer and i want to thank you america thank you for joining us this is your show this is the ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 192. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 10, 2021)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4k4V2sDpSF4) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:31:17 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where dad is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice chris

hogan ramsey personality multiple number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we take your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

starting off this hour is going to be anchorage alaska cindy is with us hi cindy welcome to the ramsay show hi dave hi chris thanks for taking my call sure what's up so i had a question i'm currently in baby step 3b and i've been in alaska for on and off for about nine years working as a nurse um and i figured it's time to start looking to purchase either a condo or a home and i wanted to get your opinion um so

i'm currently i have where i could buy

a smaller one-bedroom condo but

kind of looking at the real estate market it seems like those condos have a longer i'm a resale like

you're on the market longer so my question is is it better to go ahead and purchase like a smaller condo outright

or kind of wait a little bit longer and either put a higher down payment on a larger condo or a house or

obviously by 100 down but if that wasn't the ability so i just want to get your opinion on that yeah cool so you're you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund now you're saving your down payment right correct yes and i have enough that i could buy like a small like a one bedroom condo is like 105 to 115.

but um the resale on that is your income

yeah um anywhere depending on if i work um one or two jobs anywhere from 75 to 90

okay a year okay and so how long will it take you to save up to buy a little bit better than the one bedrooms that don't set resale well

um i'm guessing probably about another year like to put 100 down but i could put

obviously that larger so you have a hundred now yes correct wow okay and how much longer

do you see yourself in alaska's cindy well and that's kind of i have a little gypsy soul so i've kind of been i've got one foot in and one foot out okay i i heard the southern come out right there in that gypsy soul thank you originally we might be related that's us you're from the motherland kentucky that's good um

do you see yourself there another three to five years or less

one half of me that's the and that's where the caveat comes in one half of me says yes because i didn't think i would see myself here this long okay i don't but at the same time don't buy a one bedroom yeah you told me three times uh that

they sell slow and they don't appreciate well and so it's just not a good investment i mean you already knew that you didn't need me to say it you were telling yourself that so the two options are you wait and save unpay cash for a little bit better property that you could resell if you get ready to move

and you're not stuck in it and that also means it's going to go up in value because time on the market is also correlated with appreciation most of the time meaning if something sells really fast it's hot it usually is going up in value and so that's the you know those two things the days on the market are correlated with appreciation rate in your mls statistics typically

so i i you know i'm okay if you buy today and put half down and pay the other half off in three years gotcha okay or yeah or if you want to wait and pay a hundred percent and you wait a year and a half or whatever and you want to pay put 100 down either one's fine but i would not buy the soft market one bedroom now dave explain

the phrase and this thing is said oftentimes in real estate you make your money on the buy what does that mean well you you have to

buy something if you're gonna get a deal add a deal right and don't buy something that's got

a bad situation like those one bedrooms in that market aren't selling okay so that's you you you know you made a poor decision at the buy it's not necessarily the money that you made but that's going to cost you money on the sale on the back end right and like the first house uh i ever bought was up on a hill

uh and it wasn't up on a good hill it was like stuck in the side of a bluff and nasty

and ugly i mean this house was ugly ugly with a u and i got a great deal on it but you know what when i got ready to sell it it was still ugly and so i gave somebody a great deal

how long did it take for this thing to move it took forever you know and so uh that that's the problem you get into is that you know if the reason you got a good deal is still there when you get ready to sell you're gonna give somebody a good deal you know whether it's floor plan whether it's the elevation from the street whether it's the fact that there's a flood of

the one bedrooms and they built too many of them and a lot of the people buying those necessarily aren't they're not putting down routes they're more transitory whatever yeah whatever the reason is that you got a deal going in is the same reason you're going to give a deal going out unless you can change that and i mean if the reason you got a deal was it was a foreclosure

it needed carpet paint and a roof curb appeal and the curb appeal is fine but you just need to cut down all the big bushes and put down some new landscaping you had 25 year old you know plants out front that look like crap that kind of thing and you go in and do a makeover on the house now that you've changed the equation there that one makes sense

but cindy i would tell you this reach out get an endorsed local provider somebody that can give you that objective third party opinion and guide you so you emotionally don't get so caught up into it uh but come up with a dollar range that you're gonna buy don't let the bank or mortgage company tell you how much you're going to spend you need to do that on your own yeah well you've done such a great job

she really has i mean you've saved up a hundred thousand dollars most people don't have a thousand dollars that's exactly she's got a hundred she's been intentional she really is pretty impressive well she's from kentucky dave she's she's smart i'm just gonna put that out there are you yeah you're just gonna you think i'm just gonna leave it lay there i think you will

maybe not maybe not we can fight on air

it's okay for us to battle [Laughter] i'm just gonna laugh all the way into the commercial break that's all i'm gonna do but seriously people out there i know okay here you go i know mortgage rates are low and everyone's getting house fever and you're getting tempted but listen to me don't let interest rates determine when you make this move the goal is not to buy a home

the goal is to own that bad boy outright so you stay in control of you and your thing what she's done she's done that she really hasn't she's sitting there on a hundred thousand dollars she easily could have been shopping with a ninety thousand dollar household income for a three or four hundred thousand dollar house easily yeah and instead she's questioning whether she ought to buy a 100 000 one bedroom that means her heart's right her head's right that's right

and i don't care where she's from she's acting smart she is smart

doesn't matter where she's from we're gonna give her credit oh well done well done yeah a home

prices um people you know

getting the impulse fever this

built up thing inside of your spirit that is forcing you and your emotional mind to buy the largest purchase you're gonna make yeah this is a recipe for stupidity it really is and this is how people get burnt is doing this kind of stuff so she's she's being very very smart way to go cindy great job chris hogan ramsey personality and i will be back right here on the ramsey show

[Music]

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[Music]

so

[Music] chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host thank you for joining us open phones at eight two five five two two five luke is with us in

green bay hi luke welcome to the dave ramsey show thank you good afternoon dave and chris sure a question for you today is regarding umbrella insurance my wife and i a few years ago got a one million dollar umbrella policy liability and just curious if there's a certain net worth where we should look at adding to it on to two and three and four million as you go along or is

there a certain ratio that you can say you kind of have a rule of thumb for well it starts to get ridiculous when you get above 5 million the bargain is 1 million you couple 100 bucks you can buy 1 million umbrella but above 5 million you start to get ridiculous um i mean i have found a 10 million that's decent i think i've got 10 right now

but i also have the dave ramsey problem i mean if i bump into somebody they're gonna be going oh i'm okay what's your name dave ramsey oh god you know and so all of a sudden you know it's like i got a big target on my butt right so um i went ahead and picked up an extra

level of it but i don't know that i would necessarily recommend that anything above 5 million what i do tell you to do when you get above the million need i mean if you're starting to sit on a net worth of um uh you know north of three to five million dollars and that kind of a thing you're starting to worry million dollars probably not enough you really need to start looking at other risk management things you can do then and that's starting to put assets into llc's

and trusts and so forth i

personally do not own a single thing anymore i don't even own my cars my cars are in

llc's and that's all from a risk management standpoint that the owner of the car is the only person that can only only entity that could get sued if something happened the individual only way i could get sued personally is if i had committed a criminal act and they could they could pierce it then but but um so like my one of my farms is in

one llc this building is in a trust uh

and so on i don't personally own anything and that way if someone falls over in one of those properties or something happens around one of those items they can only if you lost the lawsuit they could only take the assets in that entity entity that's right and you bring up the statement risk management which is huge because you can work so hard to build wealth but if

you don't protect it the right way with an umbrella policy which all that is folks is it's another layer of coverage over your automobile and your homeowners and so it's just like an umbrella that you'd walk outside with it's that extra layer of protection and dave said it a million dollar policies a couple hundred dollars a year yeah and so you can get that in place but

the llc and the trust they've are crucial things for people to get set up well and what you're gonna find is is that when you get north of five million dollars in net worth if you're being wise and watching everything there's two things to get that start three things to start to get very complicated your taxes uh your risk management portfolio

meaning you start buying things in the name of something else and uh uh your estate plan

and the three of those things work together uh you need to have the entities built in such a way that they serve the estate plan but also serve risk management and so that that's where you know you're going to start to spend some money on defense yes and on diligence to keep the government's hands off to keep a target off your butt that kind of stuff but

you know it's such a small dollar very competitive very few times do i would i suggest it would be highly unusual for me to suggest more than a 5 million umbrella an umbrella only covers liability too it doesn't cover anything else so it's not it's not covering the property itself you get covered with traditional insurance yeah but the umbrella it just attaches to the liability limits on

the top of your car policy the top of your liability limits on your car policy the top of the liability limits on your homeowner's policy extends them out another million dollars and at 250 bucks somewhere around there all kinds of everyday millionaires out there so if this is something that rings true for you i want you to go to daveramsey.com and click on the insurance elp and start to have that conversation like

this is the time to get those things in place yep sean is in bloomington indiana hey sean welcome to the ramsay show hi dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up yeah so my wife and i are in a very unique situation uh these past couple weeks she works for

an esop company and they just recently got bought out by another company so all the employees are being paid out in their vested shares wow

so my question is we have the option to

take out a distribution up to 40 of the

payouts of the vested shares and my

question is do we take some of that out to pay off all of our debt including the house and then roll over the rest in the 401k option that they're providing with the company or um should we just

roll everything over into the 401k

so it is all pre-tax is that what you're saying um no the tap you will start to pay the

taxes on on the vested shares but um yeah

and so you can't roll it into a 401k

then if it's not pre-taxed it can't be rolled into a 401k

um yeah they're based on the paperwork

here um they're giving us the option to

um i guess move it into a 401k

i i'm still looking at all the paperwork here but yeah i double checked it because typically what they would do sean in that scenario they would allow you to take what you own in stock and then purchase new stock of the new company

okay like it may not be a traditional 401k but just double check that but i'm going to tell you buddy how much debt do you guys owe on right now outside of your home uh we all want two vehicles

how much money is this transfer gonna be worth it's 1.477 million

this is her part correct

wow i love it congratulations woo-hoo

seriously we feel like that we've won the lottery yeah okay here's what you need to do you don't need to ask two goobs on the radio you need to get some tax advice okay i want you to get some detailed tax advice because there's too much money involved here i can't tell exactly what you've got from the way you're describing it and i'm afraid i'm going to mess you up as far as taxes number one i want to get the money out of that single stock as fast as i can into mutual funds

now you can do that inside of a 401k inside of a rollover to an ira or if you've got the ability to just

take the money out and only pay the taxes on the gain uh

i can't tell what what is available to you to shelter it so what i would do if i were in your shoes let's play this through let's pretend this is pre-tax because it sounds like it may be okay and they're going to convert it to stock and then i'm going to convert that stock into mutual funds inside the 401k

as fast as i can if you can move it

instead of the 401k into an individual

traditional ira with no taxes i'm going

to do that with the bulk of this and i'm going to

pull out 400 grand and just pay taxes on it because i think there's not going to be penalties on it and pay off your house and your cars what's your home mortgage uh we currently owe 126 000.

okay so 200 grand plus some taxes

gets you out of debt 100 right correct out of 1.7 i'm definitely doing that unless you're getting hit with the 10 penalty plus your tax rate and i don't think you are i think you're gonna get taxed at a capital gains rate with no i again you're going to have to get some professional tax advice because i'm going to screw this up but yes i unless you're getting absolutely hammered on

the withdrawal then i would pull enough out to be debt-free and i would roll the rest of it into mutual funds into the 401k and i would move it into

some in an individual ira

rollover if i can get with one of the smart investor pros and get online and get with one of our tax pros if you don't have one in your back pocket both of them are ill or the elp for taxes and the smartvestor pro for investing they both can tell you exactly what you've got because i can't tell how this esop was set up i can't either

and i want everybody else to calm down out there because this is not how these normally play out this is the best version of this story well it's an employee stock option program i mean he stopped and the thing just went bananas it did they got lucky wonderful but don't leave your money in the new company stock any longer than you have to run uber high risk here

i want you to get out of that and get into some diversified investments where you can calm your risk down and that way this money's gonna still be sitting there that's right congratulations that's so thrilling this is the dave ramsey show

[Music]

[Music]

chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today matt and jamie are with us in sioux city iowa hey guys how are you we're good dave how are you better than i deserve i see on my screen you're debt-free congratulations thank you we're excited how much have you paid off eighty one thousand two hundred forty three dollars and ninety three cents love it how long did that take roughly 16 months good for you and your range of income during that time um so our primary jobs have us right

about 50 take home um and then the um four or five side

hustles that we did throughout that time brought us up to about 80.

wow four to five you guys are after it

goodness what kind of uh debt was the 81

000 uh so it was all student loans and 95 of it was probably me so how long you guys been married just about a year and a half okay so you get married and you started on this boom just like that huh pretty much when we were doing marriage prep my sister and her husband who have been married for a few years they introduced us to you um

so we started um you know reading your books listening to podcasts and we were engaged um and then the day after the wedding we got home and drained my bank account um and really just kind of started wow went after it very cool so the side

hustles left and side hustles to the right what was the most lucrative per hour the

best side hustle um i would say probably

i bartended a couple different places i would say the marina bar or even during the pandemic once things were shut down and matt and i were both working from home i started quilting and doing like t-shirt quilts and baby quilts and things like that and i got faster at it so that turned into pretty good you know per hour wage that is fantastic

uh it and looking at this so jamie did you kick-start this or did you guys kind of both come together and agree we both really agreed um i think matt

um because he was he was kind of the one that was bringing in the student loans um he got pretty intense about it and we started um you know even though we were still engaged and we hadn't combined our finances you know we were doing the monthly budget we were tracking everything we were spending um and so that was kind of um how i had

lived i mean i worked 40 50 hours a week during undergrad so i didn't have student loans um and so once we got married we were

really on the same page which made it a lot easier yeah that's fantastic i mean when you guys are in this thing together you know people rowing in the same direction get to destinations faster so very proud of you who encouraged you all during this during this time um i would definitely

say like jamie said her sister and her brother both of our parents were very much in

tune with it as well they were big supporters of us and um you know just her and i like

like she said we got very serious about this our first year we did not live with heat or ac um one day it got to 49 degrees one night and we just we powered through it and now we are currently living in a funeral home to save on rent so we're we're all in on this whole thing so it's it's pretty pretty crazy we got quite a story to tell wait a minute here hold on just a minute are

you all working at this funeral home or living there um a little bit of both that's i guess you can count that as one of my five jobs um it's you know it's just kind of as needed basis on whatever they need help with but um i it was one of my gigs when i was in college and then when we moved back to the area you know friends of ours had run

this funeral home and they said hey do you want to live there in exchange for some extra hours that you're going to help us so yeah you know hard to turn that down well okay no it's not

hey you all are all in for sure yeah you'll be telling your grandkids yeah we lived in the funeral home that's how we there's only there's only been one really ghost story so we're doing pretty well for having lived there for a year and a half so we're happy with it wow that's one too many but i'm good yeah all right i'm even more impressed with you all now

i was before but now i think i think jamie comes from a family that believes in working really hard yeah i mean her family's been farmers for a long time and when i got there it was um like jamie had already had this figured out on what what work is and what you need to get done and um we need to spend money you need to have money

and we don't do much of the spending so that's kind of what i learned and um yeah now we're now we're killing it yeah so what do you guys tell people the keys to getting out of debt are um

i would say um to be on the gentle edge of just grow up i would say you have to stop buying into this myth of instant gratification um i think that's something that our society has kind of manipulated people into thinking that you know everything is just right there and it's kind of what you said just do what feels good um you know you have to kind of get over that

and work towards something bigger and and get rid of that you know instant gratification um that was the biggest thing i think for us because there would be weekends that we would work 40 45 hours in a three-day span and we would make seven or eight hundred dollars but i didn't want to go to dairy queen to spend six dollars to cap off the weekend like we were just kind of

so um you know

gazelle intense that you know we just really didn't want to break from that um and we really looked kind of beyond that fleeting moment well done well adults devise a plan and follow it children do what feels good you're right yeah that's just absolutely vital so well done how does it feel now that you're there

i mean it's incredible we're starting to you know jamie's going to go to school here again pretty soon and we're already cash flowing that um you know it's just been part of the process she got her master's degree we cashflowed our wedding our honeymoon i mean it's just that's how we're going to start doing things and continue to do things so it's incredible that we don't have to pay student loans every single month that that chunk of change is coming out automatically it's it's awesome to see that

the hard work we put in is staying in our bank account and we get to use it how we want to yeah proud of y'all very proud of you well done well hey we're going to give you a copy of chris's book everyday millionaires and i'm also going to give you some tickets to the friday night valentine's weekend

special where john deloney and rachel cruz are doing a money and marriage event so we're going to give you some tickets for that you guys you guys need a night off i'm just saying wow

yeah weekends with bernie and everything oh my gosh unbelievable wow so you guys are impressive so well done you're absolute rock stars i'm proud of you very proud of you all right it is matt and jamie 81 000 dollars paid off in 16 months making

50 to 80. and uh there's a great place to go when you're broke to work they proved it well done count it down let's hear a debt-free scream

three

[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

i love it i love it wow all right madison pick up and get him a copy of chris's book plus get him a copy of this upcoming event it is this coming friday february the 12th the marriage and money event with rachel cruz and dr john deloney talking to you about the money and marriage connection the communication one of the things we have found over the years for those of

you that are married it is absolutely vital that you're on the same page with money it changes your relationship it changes the probability of your wealth building occurring everything it's only thirty dollars twenty dollars was the early bird ticket so it's only thirty dollars a ticket and uh you can enjoy this live stream

and uh this coming friday at 7 p.m

central no matter what your marriage looks like right now we can help you achieve better unity and communication at the special valentine's

edition of money and marriage streaming live to your home friday february 12th at 7 p.m and again

dr john deloney rachel cruz one thing for sure if those two are speaking there will be humor oh they're going to have fun the two of them are good they're just funny we may have to be there to make sure they do what they're doing yeah we gotta hit the stuff they just get to cutting up but listen i don't know anybody else that does that stuff no not

you and i we are straight laced that's right we stay with the business always we never we never stray never weekends with bernie twice or two or three times an hour here's the deal if you're a part of ramsay plus you better get on over there and reserve your seat because you get a chance to check it out for fun free it's a part of your membership man check

it out this is how it works date night this is how it works i love it this is the ramsey chef

[Applause]

[Applause] [Music]

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chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsay show thank you for joining us the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five adam is

in valdosta georgia hi adam how are you hey dave hey chris

thanks for taking my call sure how can we help i'm in a position

where um with my career i'm trying to go back to school and get a degree to further my career and i'm in a

position where it's possible that i may have to go into debt to get this degree um

with my career classes can be transferred over into credit into this specific university online university and

there's no way i this is the only one that moves all the classes i've ever taken into college credits so i'm trying to struggle because i'm i'm doing my debt snowball i'm struggling with handling the debt that i have and trying to stay debt-free for my degree and what's your degree what's your degree field i'm trying to get a bachelor's or four-year degree in business administration okay and how much do you lack

um i have depending on how many

credit hours my classes for my career move over i have only my core classes so i'm fairly fresh into it so you got like three years of work left yeah i mean right and i could cut i could cut that in half almost if i go to this university because it'll transfer all my career stuff over so you'd have a year and some change left you be in your senior year or late in your junior year correct okay

all right and what do you do for a living i'm a firefighter okay how old are you i am 26.

okay and so the business degree does what for you it allows me for it's one of our uh

requirements for promotion in the future

as a firefighter you need a business degree uh as a higher level administration level

uh chief oh actually okay yeah

it's a further down on my career path yeah all right and how many years before you would be eligible for that um position if you had this

degree if i had the degree i would say [Music] roughly five to ten years

it's rough to say but at least five yeah

okay and um how many colleges are in valdosta um three i believe

okay yep three yeah and you're

the one you're looking at though is online correct not one of those three no uh this is the

only this university or the online university is the only one that moves all my clients i got that part i got that part have you talked to all three of the others i have

okay because they are much cheaper than

the online yes a fourth aren't they

uh roughly yeah yeah so that's what you're doing you're either gonna go over there and talk one of them into this and uh appeal i mean sit down in the president's office just stroll your butt in there and sit down and go i'm getting ready to move everything to an online and pay too much for this degree because you guys won't transfer these credits so we've got to figure out something

because this is crazy i would rather keep the money here in our community i'm a firefighter here in this community i'd rather keep the money here in the community and support our local college and it's better for me to say i graduated from this local community and it is by the way right yeah you're not going to go into debt and go online matter of fact i think

the online idea is just a bad idea because i think you're paying way too much for the stinking degree that you don't need for seven years

right so i would just nix that and i i

think you just got to do some politicking on the transfer because the thing is these are small colleges this isn't like you're trying to go the freaking harvard and get them to waive your you know accept your credits right this is valdosta state or whatever it is for god's sakes i mean it's not like it's it's not a i'm not putting it down i'm you'll probably get a great education

there but my point is you'll have access to people probably that have an open mind oh by the way they they actually want students need students they definitely i'm going to go in there and find out what the appeals process is or who i have to appeal to or who who needs to stroke a agreement an executive order waiving this or i don't know how it works even

i wish dr john was here because he would know because it baffles me because even with a community college they will take their credits not give you the grades some some of them but i mean i'm going to communicate adam take the opportunity or the thought of going into debt off the table exactly that's what i want you to do just because right now you've got that looking like it's

the only option to you and it's really not i'd much rather you go have that conversation go low and slow as you're going part time and it take you longer to get the degree with avoiding debt we got 43 million people walking around with 1.7 trillion in student loan debt you you don't want to go there yeah and all and a percentage of them whining at the top of their lungs expecting

the government to forgive their debt now um we've got the um the lefties you know going bananas on this stuff now and so oh we should all have it forgiven we should know and so you know i'm going to be telling you no no no no no no now the other question

that i would bring into play here

i understand that you need the knowledge

pieces to be an administrator in a leadership position that high that the the business leadership but um

i might even challenge that the degree is a hundred percent a prerequisite for you moving up into those roles [Music] i think if you could exhibit and show the knowledge that was in place right you probably might you'd be eligible for that as well i i actually have never run into that before but that doesn't mean that you're not correct i'm just saying i haven't run into

it and so it does make sense it's logical sense that to be in an administrative role as senior chief of the chief of uh fire chief for the whole county or whatever that kind of a thing that you would need some uh organizational administrative

uh skill sets that you would get in a four-year business degree that's right that's logical to me i'd even have the conversation with the chief there to find out can i enroll in the national guard well or will they pay for it yeah i mean i want to have the conversation on this to find out and understand it more uh but adam thanks for reaching out buddy that's very cool

you can hear it's heavy on your heart you need some more options and to have some conversations and keep gathering information the the trick is as chris said take the debt off the table it's not an option and then from there what are we going to do we've got to find another way to get this goal accomplished and that's what i keep poking out around the edges here what are

the options to still accomplish the goal with no debt yeah and and you know either cash flowing it national guard fire department ships in

i don't care it doesn't matter to me i hate that you would pay four times more because you can't get the local college to accept the transfer credits yeah which is illogical by the way on top of that so it means you got a good case as far as i'm concerned brenda is with us in oklahoma city hi brenda welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi thank you um i want you to rethink if

you would buying personal defense insurance

because um i'm single i live alone

and i don't live in the best neighborhood and i've already bought it in all actuality and my son is a firm believer in you

he's coming home next month he's helping

me go through my budget because he's already succeeded with yours what are you paying for this oh 179 a

year and you make he's gonna go um

right oh about 30 000 a year that's a lot of money for you and so basically if you pull your handgun out and shoot a bad guy this is supposed to protect you it would because well i actually know the company yeah it's a really good company there's there are some legitimate companies in that space and there are some companies that cover about half of what they say they're going to cover too so um i

mean i live in tennessee i i'm a handgun enthusiast i collect guns yeah uh i carry every day

um i don't have it and i make a lot more than thirty thousand dollars uh but the biggest insurance i've got is i'm going to run because i'm not pulling that gun out right i'm going to run right i'm going to run like like my head's on fire yeah so i i if you want to buy it it's okay with me i mean it's not the other world it's a lot of money for

you honey and i might think about spending 179 on moving um you know some other things like that there's some other things to look at but i you have the you give the impression as if this is somehow going to fix everything if you shoot somebody it's not it's not it's going to ruin your [Applause] [Music]

life [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsay solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice i am dave ramsey your host chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five eric starts off this hour in erie pennsylvania hi eric how are you

hi i'm doing well dave how are you doing better than i deserve how can we help

so i'm 19 years old i'm a full-time college student and i've just started um listening to your show i just got my car paid off so i have zero debt and i got into college with a

lot of scholarships and i'm also very very fortunate to have a college fund so i will be graduating with no debt um

i've been working hard throughout high school and college since i was 15 and i have about four thousand dollars

saved up between my savings and investments and my question is should i start contributing to my roth ira or should i wait until i'm out of college and i've started my career man you're a rock star well done yeah you're very well done congratulations i'm proud of you man very well done um here's the thing you have plenty of

time after graduation to begin your retirement investing so if you graduate from school get your first gig your 401k roth there or your roth iras and start from there on you're go and you keep doing that from 22 until you're through your working lifetime you're going to be a multi millionaire plus you are not afraid of hard work and you've been very intentional with your money very wise beyond your years

and so if you don't get crazy you're going to be a multi multi multi millionaire because it's the way you're wired up is you're heading in that direction already the best insurance that you have the best

income is for you to finish your degree and finish it without debt as long as the degree is something that's applicable and there's a job market for it what are you studying [Music] um i'm studying communication sciences and disorders and i'm going to go for a master's degree in speech language pathology phenomenal excellent excellent so

that is going to afford you an excellent income would you agree yes okay so um translation

the money that you would put into a roth the end of good mutual funds the money it would make in the next three years compared to what you are going to be worth as a result of graduating with this degree is is not even on the same chart you

are a much better investment than a roth in mutual funds are yep to finish your studies now i understand you've got it mapped out with scholarships and with a college fund that you're going to go through debt free i heard that clearly and i heard that you have twenty four thousand dollars it wouldn't make me mad in other words if you didn't start your roth until after graduation and instead

ended up with i'm going to make up a number 50 000 bucks in an account when you graduate you can start investing some of that money then you can use it for transition into your new career and move cities and all that kind of a thing have a fully funded emergency that's like an insurance policy to ensure that eric graduates debt-free yeah and eric what about the masters are

you going to be paying for that or is your college fund going to pay for it um my college fund is going to be paying for it it's great i'm actually in a five-year program so i've already been accepted into the master's degree program and i know exactly how much it's going to cost not bad also roll over

so um i will be graduating 100

debt free well i'm proud of you buddy and here's the beauty of it while your college friends might be eating ramen noodles you can upgrade okay you got some money uh but be smart and like dave said graduate have 50 000 sitting there ready for you to jump start life and be just hyper intentional moving forward then eric even if you wanted to park some of it into an investment say like a uh

an index fund okay an s p 500 fund a no

load fund something like that if you want to park some of it there and begin some investing that's okay i just wouldn't put it in a retirement product like a roth or a 401k because

my big goal for you is to finish this wonderful track you put yourself on and uh man you've gotten some really good coaching and advice and you you know you're a very very sharp young man great job buddy excellent excellent work angel is in tampa florida hi angel how are you

hey good afternoon david chris uh thank you for taking my call sure how can we help well i have two

questions one i want to start with i have an rv

that i purchased uh and i'm on my baby

step two and i it's i owe 255 it's probably worth

45 so my question is in baby step 2 do i

just get away or find a way to get rid

of it even if i have to carry or maintain some kind of you know balance yes

okay yeah what do you make a year

uh 72. yeah yeah this thing's insane

what's the payment on it oh it's nuts it's 500. yeah yeah forever 500 months yeah

so what yeah you you're gonna end up with a ten thousand dollar unsecured loan at your credit union or your bank to cover the deficit that you're in at and because you've got to cover that difference in order to sell it and get the title correct correct or the rv company okay or if the rv company will carry it for you yeah then i would let you do that as well

but yeah you need to get rid of it and you're gonna have to cover the difference so but it's better to be ten thousand dollars in death and fifty five hey absolutely and the five hundred dollars you've been used to paying that's gonna allow you to again you're gonna go to that snowball route make minimum payments on everything but the small one and once you chop that down you're coming on down

and angel you're gonna change your kind of financial situation uh with that but go talk to a credit union or your bank because this has to be unsecured in order to release the title from the rv company yeah or if the whoever you've got the rv loan with if they will agree to just let you sign a note for the difference if you've already got the loan over at your local credit union for instance or over at your local bank

you can get them to just allow you to sign a note for the difference and and you pay payments on that and put it into your debt snowball but again it's easier to get out of ten thousand than 55 and and owning a 55 000 vehicle that's

going down in value like a rock sitting in your driveway when you make 75 is a mathematical using it twice a year crazy land yeah

no it's got to go you gotta get rid of it you don't own any rvs i don't why uh i i

i waste my money on other things

i do waste money i mean because i own two boats and two seadoos that right there will offset us rv right and so i mean i got two ski boats but but again they're a very small percentage not only of my net worth but of my income but they are also used and and well um the one of them when i bought it i bought one of them new no no

i meant they're used throughout the year oh you're always i'm you know riding around behind that boat all the time but yeah but but i mean he may be using the rv he don't know he's not using it but um the

abode and rv all these things are toys right and there's nothing wrong with having a side-by-side or you know getting a snowmobile or whatever it is you want to get this a toy but all the things that you number one you'll pay cash for it and all the things that you own with wheels motors on them they go down in value so they should add up to no more than half your annual income

because otherwise you have too much juice tied up and stuff going down instead of yeah that's not good pretty simple math formula this is the day the ramsay show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease it was just such a relief to know that financial burden was going to be taken care of chm is the original and longest serving health cost sharing ministry get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash

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so [Music]

chris hogan ramsey personality

is my co-host today thank you for joining us this is the ramsay show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five tony is with us in sioux falls south dakota hi tony welcome to the ramsey show how can we help good

afternoon gentlemen thanks for taking my call sure hey my question is i get a uh my company leases a vehicle back from me

i'm currently on steps four five and six and it's about eight hundred and fifty dollars a month and it the over the last ten years i've

used that fund i've just put it in a savings account and gained zero interest on it to buy my vehicle with cash every time and i'm just looking at i'm wondering what to do with that money this time around if it's a money market mutual funds savings account what's the best option

well if you put it into a mutual fund you stand the probability of it going down in value not just up right correct and i know you say

if they're not going to leave it in five years and not go into a mutual fund yeah um this last this last time it was actually about five and a half years when i used the funds well i mean you could you could split it up and you could put half into a s p 500 and a half into a money market and then you're not putting

it all at risk of going down if you want to try to let it earn a little bit um the trick is that the system is what's going to save your butt not the fact that you had it invested

okay how much money are what you're talking you're talking about you said 800 a month and you're putting it all aside for car replacement right

correct it's about ten thousand dollars a year and at the end of the uh i usually run the vehicles to about two hundred two hundred and fifty i'd like to run them as long as they can and uh let's say over that five year

period of time then let's say it averaged twenty five thousand dollars because fifty thousand in five years so it averages median the median point is 25k and so if

you make 10 percent on 25k that's 2500.

uh which does not impact a fifty thousand dollar situation that much

okay so what you earn on this money is not as important as the fact that you have a system to keep yourself from going into debt

so it would be okay to earn nothing then as long as i'm continuing with yeah because it's the the investment but if you were going to leave it alone 20 years and you left it at one percent well that'd be ludicrous right yeah yeah and tony i mean you've got an opportunity to be able to put half of that aside for car replacement you could throw the other half your cedro on four five

and six you could throw that toward the mortgage you know the point is you want the money to work for you don't put any more in this car replacement fund then you need to replace the car right and so whatever the schedule is on that and again if you want to just just to dial it up a little bit move half of it into mutual funds and into an s p 500

and the other half just let it ride on a thing i mean

let it ride in a money market account but but the whatever you earn on it even if you earn really good money is not going to substantially change your life what is substantially changing your life is you've been smart enough to avoid debt and you have a system to replace these cars as you after you wear them out and you are destroying them because you're the number of miles you're putting on them

i mean you're just wearing them out and that's uh your road warrior as part of the cost of doing business in your world nothing wrong with that but at least you've figured out how to admit it and uh that's pretty cool and you also figured out the 800 a month doesn't cover all your costs so uh they're they're they're giving you some money but they not giving

you a company car you've been better off with a company car uh a lot better off all right dave is with us in

dallas hi dave welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hey dave i'm uh

trying to determine whether or not i should do a deferred income annuity

why would you do that well

my financial person

suggested it because i'm real fearful fearful of the other market crash and

she's like well you know if the market

crashes you know the he's losing the value of our retirement right now i'm i'm retired uh my wife is fixing to retire

i'm 58 how much money started retired at

55 and uh how much money is it got 2.3

and you're fearful that the market is going to completely destroy well not completely but uh you know

half and then if i'm withdrawing

and where in history have you seen it do that yeah okay uh you're right you're right uh

or 30 i guess and where in history have

you seen it do that i thought 2008 was somewhere around there no it was half the dow went from 13 to 6 700. okay

and it was back in a year right

and now it's not 6700 or 13. it's 30

000 right correct okay

so unless you have a need for 2.5 million dollars at the bottom of the market you would not embrace the 30 loss you would ride it out wouldn't you yes even though i'm going to be withdrawing you know 10 grand a month which is a whole 120 000 a year that's not even the growth okay

okay dave listen yes sir listen my friend you are an everyday millionaire you have been intentional in growing this money you're going to be fine i i listen

the thing is this okay i understand

that the world is unraveling out here in front of us i'm watching it too i'm not disagreeing with you about that but we we dr daloni talks about when we're in a crisis situation or when we're in a situation facts are our friends not fear

and if the facts say if there's some

actual facts that indicate that we're going to have a substantial market drop and it's going to maintain and it's going to stay down there then we would have this discussion i don't have any of those facts the only thing i've got is i don't like the socialist tendencies that are in dc right now

i don't like the idea of heavy taxation i don't like what they're going to do to the economy uh overall i don't think it's going to be pleasant but i don't think we're going to see a market correction of 30 percent i'm 60 i have pulled zero

out of the market due to my being upset

about the current world that i live in does that make sense yes so while i have those emotions i have to gauge the actual facts of the history to do that so

all of that said i'm not sure i would do a deferred income annuity i might do a variable annuity and a variable annuity

will give you principal protection and a floor of a minimum gain

or minimum increase in value usually five percent six percent and you're invested in vehicles that are gonna make you ten to twelve on average but if the market really tanked you'd have principal protection

and you would have uh uh

you know a floor for the earnings and so if if that will make you sleep better at night you're going to pay an extra fee for that variable annuity that you really don't need it doesn't give you anything that you need except that peace of mind that you're looking for so you're paying for that now would i move the whole two million dollars in there absolutely not

but but what i move in your case if you still think this through and you still are worried about it uh you know then you know you might move 500 700 in there maybe move a third of your of your net worth into that it's not a bad place because you can put it in good mutual funds you'll still have a similar growth rate you're just going to have a higher expense ratios okay

and when you pull money out of it it's no longer going to be taxed at uh well it's it's it's all in 401ks anyway isn't it correct yeah you're going to be tax ordinary income anyway when you come out but um no oh i'm sorry

right now no mine's not in 401ks

all of mine is or the majority of mine

is in um high rates okay

but if you have non you see you're taxed at ordinary income when you pull it out of a traditional ira and so when you pull it out of this you're going to be tax ordinary income too so that doesn't harm you much if you're dealing with non-retirement money putting into a variable annuity you're going to change from capital gains taxation to ordinary income taxation which is something else to consider

but that's not your case yeah so maybe a third of it dave but the other thing i would do is i'd spend some more time learning about history and let facts be your friends even though we're scared

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so

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chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host thank you for joining us america you're listening to the ramsey show i'm dave ramsey your host kyle is with us in fayetteville north carolina hey kyle how are you hey dave thanks for taking my call i got a quick question about uh a little bit of extra money that i got where i should be putting it i say i should be putting it extra towards my mutual funds my wife wants to pay off the rental properties your wife would be right

so even if i plan on selling those

rental properties when i retire out of the military in four years we'll go and sell them now

i could do that okay

but they're they're they're they're still making me a little bit of money and so when i retire i think the key here is a little bit yeah but kyle think about it that same mindset you have of wanting to put the money into mutual funds for it to be able to grow long-term for you if you go ahead and sell them now and take that equity finish cleaning up whatever debt you have and now you invest that now you're on a serious long-term growth plan yeah here's the thing

you're not really making any money on these rental properties are you

um not real money i mean i'm making

close to 750 a month off the rentals and it's paying down the mortgage and you know building equity 750 minus vacancy minus repairs

yes yeah so

you know really we're talking about three or four thousand dollars a year

and you're how far in debt on the rental properties uh total it's four 437.

437 thousand dollars worth of risk to make three thousand dollars a year

that does not make sense when you said a little bit of money i knew what you were talking about see i love real estate but real estate is not a good investment the way you've done it because this is probably it has as much chance of costing you money at the end of the story as it does making you money so i think you're both going to get your wish

i would sell the rentals now because i don't think they're a blessing and i want you to buy rentals later and pay cash for them in your wealth building journey but not this year and maybe after you get out of the military and maybe after you decide where you're going to settle and all of those kinds of things but right now i'm going to go ahead and invest that money into mutual funds like

you wanted to do yeah kyle thank you for your service by the way but i knew dave was about to do a math lesson on you i knew it because i've been around enough and i've heard it and unfortunately you know when we see it for what it is you see those numbers the real way and you start to identify you're only making about three grand a year

and taking on that level of risk you can quickly identify that it's not worth it well there is something that has risen up um in the um 20s

the 20 year olds 20 to 30 year olds even 20 to 35 year olds right now that we're seeing almost on a moment-by-moment basis in all of our interactions uh with you guys out there through broadcasting and through all the other ways we interact with you uh the positive is there's this tremendous that this generation whatever we're calling these 20-somethings has this tremendous entrepreneurial zeal in drive and this this this sense to be independent it's not greed driven it's uh initiative it's very positive

it really is it's a wonderful character attribute you've got that that's how you got these rental properties and that drive is causing these 20-somethings to do two things and oftentimes poorly

because they're doing them too quickly i did this in my 20s but i'm a boomer which now is a put down

but it used to be just a demographic but um but uh now i've got old man house shoes you know so there you go but the uh uh the the this wonderful

zeal this wonderful entrepreneurial zeal is causing these 20-somethings to buy real estate because i got to buy real estate i'm going to get rich in real estate i'm going to get rich in real estate man when i was in my 20s is when infomercials started oh that was

the beginning of infomercial oh yes i'm gonna get rich in real estate i'm gonna get rich in real estate and uh i grew up in the real estate business and so i went straight into i'm gonna get rich in real estate and i did i became a millionaire by the time i was 26 and uh the other it's driving this bitcoin craze it's driving this game stop crazy yes yes uh uh the same zeal is driving

people to do these things and to get out there and i'm gonna turn over i'm gonna do something i'm gonna get some i'm gonna and it's not greed it's the spirit on it i mean the my discernment says it's not greed it is initiative it's it's a positive ambition

but what caused what happened with me was i bought real estate that i couldn't afford i leveraged it i used totally borrowed money and i ended up with 4 million worth of real estate that i owed 3 million on so i had a million dollar net worth but it wasn't cash flowing and i was flipping it and it was barely cash flowing like his is barely cash flowing

this is why i know this math because i lived it right because i did the same thing only i did it with more zeros on the end it wasn't 400 000 is 4 million and it took me down because the bank got uh sold and called our notes and uh then i and i didn't have any cash

i was not in it they i had all these assets but there was no cash [Music] and when you do that with real estate is when you're gonna go broke not when you're gonna make a fortune in real estate and so real estate that does not have margin is not a blessing it's a liability and

investing in things that don't have margin or that are a high risk gamble play

is a misuse of your entrepreneurial ambitious zeal and so i love the zeal what i want to do is channel it with some wisdom and a process some wisdom yes and that is slow down a little bit yeah and pay cash and don't invest everything you have in super high risk crap um i mean and i i know there's stories

of people making money in bitcoin i know there's stories of people making money with gamestop we talked to one here on the other day i'm not saying it can't happen but i know stories of people made money at the roulette wheel too that's right i know people that made money on wheel of fortune but that doesn't mean our jeopardy i've got personal friends that that won and

they won 50 000 bucks or something but they didn't change their career to be game show operators right and they didn't put everything they had that didn't push all their chips to the center of the table on one hand to cards and that's what we're doing when we go into highly leveraged real estate into businesses with no margin or high risk investment plays and we act like it's a freaking game right

because we put all the chips in the table now if you've got a small percentage of your chips and you're going to lose those and it doesn't kill you that's different i don't even recommend that but i'm not going to make fun of you for that right i am going to call you out on the other because this this you know it leads to uh bad critical

thinking that okay real estate's a good investment so all real estate no matter how broke i am is a good investment that's right that's bad thinking skills it is and that's what happened with in the 90s with day trading uh it's what we're seeing now with bitcoin and gamestop uh but i'm going to tell you something dave i'm getting these callers calling in these millennials on my show the chris hogan show that are

saving and investing and following the plan and the trail is the foundations course they took in high school that they were either financial peace babies where their parents went through it taught them or they went through foundations and so they've got this learning foundation literally where they're thinking and following the process yeah it's encouraging i had people you know when i'm doing real estate deals i have people that thought i was a genius when i was buying all that real estate um except the old people and the old people

that had money kept looking at me going son you're too leveraged you got no cash this is going to catch up with you you're going to get a spanking you're going to get it and i kept going oh you're just old you don't understand this is a proper use of capital markets and i used all the cash flows you know i've got great internal rates of return

i have no cash right no liquidity i couldn't buy a freaking loaf of bread you know but i got four million dollars worth of real estate and so this idea that you can throw around all your arrogant little terms and all they show is your immaturity they don't show that i'm a dinosaur they show that you're a child that's all it shows and so the thing is

use this ambition this movement which is

so positive in this generation in a slower more methodical cash basis

way with high margins and then you're going to learn love real estate i got a bunch of real estate and i want you to have some too i just don't want to have you there it is

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well tax season is here

i know that's exciting oh goody dave

thanks for the help the reason i want to say that listen you got to do your taxes early the reason you do them early not in march or april is because you're going to be under far less stress and less stress means less mistakes plus if you actually owe taxes filing early means you can start saving or being ready to file early even if you need to

if you need to save up and wait until april 15th to actually pull the trigger on the file you'll at least know what the target is right if you need a tax pro you need to get with one right now before they get busy you get busy you know this is the sooner you reach out to a tax pro the better and that way your taxes get done way

before the deadline and then you can decide a strategy for this year and what you need to do text the word tax pro 23789

and we'll hook you up with one of our tax endorsed local providers text taxpro one word to

33789 and you'll find a tax pro that chris and i and all the ramsey personalities endorse and think are awesome seriously clemmy is with us clemmy is in atlanta georgia is it clemmy is that correct yes sorry how can we help hey how you

doing fellas hey so i've got a question i'm in a job that i love and with my uh career trajectory um i

plan on i'm assistant manager at the retail store and within the next year or so i'm gonna bump up to a store manager and wipe that out for another five years and stay with the company and go to um corporate office after that but my quandary is that i have

credit card quoted to me and it goes against everything that i believe in and i have to push these get stored

credit cards and i'm having a hard time um

doing my job effectively and also

and and also i don't want that to um hinder me from moving up within my company so i'm at a loss of what to do in this regard how long you been with him uh since 2016. so i'm going on five

years what do you make i'm at 60.

how big a knot is in your stomach

well listening to you every day doesn't help [Laughter]

sorry about that brother

my friend i crossed that same path and

here's the reality it is truly a matter of you coming to understand that the skill set that you've been blessed to have the way that you work the way that you serve customer service and sales that same skill set can be used elsewhere without you having to have a conflict of what you believe in and it's going to require you to have that thought process before you gain clarity and i would tell you what i did was i started to write down options where ca where else can i go and

help people and serve well without having to do something i don't believe in and i'm going to tell you in that industry it's not going to go away you're not going to be able to miss this in order to move up you're going to have to embrace it and and not only embrace it do it well so that's where you're going to have that crisis of kind of internal conflict you're going to have to change industries

but that doesn't mean you can still can't serve people now here two three things come to mind one is you've got a detailed career path laid out in your mind with this company so you're not abandoning a 60 000 your job that you hate no you're abandoning a dream that you've had yeah yeah if you leave this company and that's going to be very hard to do that's why

this conflict is so real and i'm not suggesting that you have to do this on principle you're calling and saying that the principles are that you feel like you're in conflict so one thing is i think you need to it's going to take you a little while and you don't have to panic and you're not stealing from you're not stealing bubble gum from little children i mean

this is not you know you're not you know you're just doing something that you don't feel good about that you wouldn't do for your own kids you wouldn't do for your mama and you know so you're violating your conscience in that regard and so but but it's not you're not you're not doing anything illegal you're not doing anything immoral uh so i would take my time and

work my way into a new dream

a new career path that uh that i can begin working on and so you know embrace some of ken coleman's materials at kingcoleman.com and you know the proximity principle book will give you a copy i'll have madison pick up and give you a copy so that's kind of thing one is there's a real emotional process that probably is going

to take more than 10 minutes okay if they came in and said you had to do something illegal that would take you about a minute and a half to walk out the door right absolutely but but this is not this is not that situation this is just a this is a rub is what this is but it's a rub it's like chris said it's not going away now the second thing is to embrace what

chris's portion of advice was one of my favorite books on business that i've ever read is by our friend rabbi daniel lapin and it's called thou shall prosper and rabbi lapin as you can obviously guess is a jewish orthodox rabbi and the book is the 10 reasons that jewish people have had a tendency to prosper throughout history beyond the population that they've been installed in and so for instance uh three percent of americans are jewish 67 percent of the forbes 400 is so these

are 10 principles we all want to know right those of us that aren't jewish but rabbi and i have become really good friends over the years and one of the 10 principles is that over a long period of

time it is almost impossible for someone to prosper doing something that they don't believe

to be morally correct yes

so it's going to be very difficult over the next 10 years for your dream path to actually occur

because you have this other you know knot in your stomach and you know and i'm sorry i put it there but i'm glad you recognized it i mean i i again i'm not pounding my fist and yelling that this company is horrible or something they're just a retail company selling credit cards they all do

and my goal is that one day uh enough americans wake up and realize that the credit card is basically the cigarette of the financial world that companies like this quit doing that because the public pressure forces them to like the public pressure is forced to change in smoking you know when i was growing up you could smoke on an airplane a metal tube with people in it full of smoke i mean it's just amazing in the air it's just and the funniest one was when

they went to no smoking sections yes as if as if as if the magic you were exhausted it's like the no p into the pool i mean you know it's like it doesn't go to the other end of the pool come on and so um you know but anyway that you know that's what's going to happen if as we continue to have more and more and more people understand that living debt-free is a fabulous way of doing

it it really is and chlamy i'm going to tell you that little knot that you have right now is only going to continue to grow so i am too but i'm excited for you the thing that that i got to was that it was a matter of the lord had something else for me to do and so having that awareness as dave said you do shift the dream

but you do understand that you're still able to serve people and use the skill set you've been blessed to have and that you've polished and so again we get ken's book we're going to send you a copy i want you to read it but start to lay out options and i'm proud of you for reaching out and talking about this early on it was something i struggled with

before i reached out to a mentor to discuss yeah i think the options is a big deal when you've got a new dream that is as detailed as your current dream oh man oh game changer in a different area that's not going to cause you these knots in your stomach yeah then making the change will be easy right now the idea of making the changes going from

this dialed in path to nothing yep and that's not a jump anybody can make emotionally if you're wise your emotions will stop you from doing that and they should so take your time and let's get a new dream detailed out

a new path that says i'm going to work here and then i'm going to be a store manager and then i'm going to be original manager and then i'm going to work in the home office and whatever it is i mean you had it laid out i mean you got it dialed in and uh but i i wish i could tell you that the big box whatever it is uh retailer home depot

they'll wake up uh lowe's uh whoever it

is you know walmart whoever it is i don't know who it is that i wish i could tell you they were going to quit pedaling credit cards soon enough for your dream to come true but they're not nope they're not um tarzan we're going to keep working on them at ramsay though yeah we are until we bother them enough that enough people start to realize that i think we can change and create a whole movement i think we are we are we are going to create a home

this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five jacob is with us in danbury connecticut hi jacob welcome to the day to the ramsey show how can we help hey dave chris uh thanks for having me how are you guys better than we deserve how can

we help um just got a question about a 401k investment retirement investment uh right now i have a traditional 401k and i'm looking to go to a roth 401k i just have a question on the best way to do that if i have to do it all at once with the taxes or if there's a steps i can take to kind of cut down on the amount of

i have to pay out yeah well the first thing is just stop doing new except roth let all your new contributions be roth from this point forward that's step one okay now how much is in your 401k in the traditional uh about 50 000 right now okay and what

baby step are you on i am on data stuff four okay then i would not convert the 50 000 until after your home is paid off okay because it's going to create about 12 000 in taxes and i would rather use those 12 000 for your five or six baby step

but later on when you're in baby step seven and you scratch up some extra cash then yeah go ahead and flip it uh flip it on over into the roth at that point but it won't hurt anything for it to sit there and grow as traditional for a couple of years while you get the house paid off okay um i i do have another question about mutual funds um right now i do have

a portfolio it's kind of a slow growth uh i'm just wondering what the best mutual fund that you would recommend to invest in non-retirement

non-retirement why would you have non-retirement um i don't know if if it's something that i may need to pull out of it or how much is in it i have about 70 000.

what's the balance on your home

about 70 huh i think we just found a use

for it jacob did you feel that

that was a seismic shift right there for

you buddy you have an advocate what do you make a year uh well this is actually the first year with a bunch of overtime i just pulled in about 120. way to go man and your debt-free house and everything i'm so proud of you game changer jacob yeah seriously

brother hey man cash it out pay off your house now let's take that house payment and let's uh save up twelve thousand dollars and convert the rest of that 401k to a roth and then let's start maxing everything out and uh then let's just start piling up some cash and being unreasonably outrageously generous you are so cool man he is seriously i mean a young man that has listened

and followed the principles uh is about 100 desperate i mean for the most part mostly you know but now he's got a chance to kind of right the ship and get himself from moving in the right direction so for clarification for those of you that are just kind of in the middle of you know what a baby step is but you're not sure about the nuances whatever money

you have in anything

that is not in a retirement account

should be liquidated and used for whatever step you are on yes step one's a thousand

dollars two is debt free everything but the house three is an emergency fund four is fifteen percent of your income going into retirement five is kids college if that's if that's applicable if not we head straight on to six and pay off the house that's how i did that right but non-retirement accounts dave can look like what a brokerage account a mutual fund investment seventy thousand dollars with a seventy thousand dollar mortgages an inheritance all of these things yeah

yeah the money is sitting there from you got some stock your grandpa gave you you got seven thousand dollars in savings bonds yeah granny gave you you've got five gold coins that you don't that you don't even know how you got them or why you got them or i don't know what it is what have you got that is just sitting around it's an investment use it for

the baby step that you're on because the shortest distance between where you are today and wealthy and outrageously generous is walking those baby steps exactly and as quickly as you possibly can don't change the recipe okay any times people tell me chris you know i'm following baby steps ish i'm doing ramsay-ish i'm like stop doing ish and do it yeah follow it to a t we've had millions of people get help why are

you overthinking the wheel it works hey we're even walking with our thousand team members this year yeah our internal vision for the year

is to walk the talk and so everybody's going through financial peace university again we're dialing in so that our own team members are not doing ish that's right and uh we're even doing t-shirts issues of wish hogan's got hogan saying on the t-shirt issues of wish i like it but seriously got an opportunity right now where you are uh to make a decision and if you're not a part of ramsey plus i'm telling

you right now get over there we are adding more information and more content at all times you have an opportunity to get connected with the events that we have via live stream because you're a member of ramsey plus so text the word trial to 33789

again the trial is the word text that to 33789 and come on in yeah if you're brand new the thing is that he he's right that we've got this whole thing we just installed it's in about in the last six months or so where the first 90 days we give you small consistent wins not just the baby steps but every little detail leading up into a baby step small consistent wins

these add up to big results and better habits and that means you're going to get where you want to be faster so free trial by texting

the word trial 23789

now if you're a member by friday night we've got the money and marriage event friday night and it is 30 if you want to watch it as a live stream rachel cruz and dr john dolone talking about marriage and money it'll be fun funny and informative uh great holla a great valentine's day gift but if you're a member ramsey plus it's free most of our live streams are free to ramsay plus members in addition to financial peace university in addition to premium version of every dollar all of that's all wrapped up

there to make sure you get what you need and that we're able to walk with you and show you how to do that but the trick is there's kind of a spillover effect you know like one of those water wheels coming around as the water fills up one area it moves one more time spills out and that's how the baby steps work it does any of the water that you've got

you put it in that bucket yeah until that bucket's full and it spills over the next one move on and then any other water you get whether it's from your budget or the gold coins in your safe or you're to sell i don't know grandpa's whatever i don't know what it is this thing you've been hanging on to it really is not an asset it's just sitting over

there on its butt looking at you and the only thing we don't do is we don't cash out retirement to do that because of the penalties and the taxes are so heavy and it makes it just it takes the fun out of it you got a great opportunity change your future change your mindset and if you change your mindset i'm telling you you can change your life yeah

so come over to ramsey plus check it out jacob's in a great place yes he is he's debt free house and everything you just helped him if he does what we told him to do he better follow the directions today jay right now don't make us come to connecticut please no it's cold i can't go up there i can't go up please don't make me nope i'll text people

please i don't i'll do anything jacob

i would almost pay off your house to keep from coming not really

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[Applause] chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today we invite your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for

yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you save even more use the magic word the promo code ramsey all right today's question comes from dave in kentucky uh he says i lost my wife in december of 2020.

once she's 18. wow

well i'm dave i'm so sorry to hear about your loss my friend um that's tough and i can't imagine uh what you're going through i hope you've got a good church and good friends around you but looking at this this dollar amount this 858 survivor benefits coming in this has got to become part of your budget uh you're going to use this to raise your daughter yeah what whatever whatever baby step you're on

and if you'll follow the stuff we teach by the time she's 18 you'll you will have fully funded her college fund and she'll have a lot more than a hundred thousand dollars and you will have become wealthy

over that 20 years and she will have a lot more than a hundred thousand dollars and so there's not any moral ethical nor legal obligation for you to set this money aside in her name you spend more than 858 raising a kid a month anyway and so just put it into your budget and work your budget because we're counting on you to be a great dad and anytime you work your budget it is for the good of you and your family yeah and so your daughter is going to more than benefit

far beyond what the 858 dollars would have done right by you doing the right thing people struggle with this child support i should set it aside no it's all part of the budget because you spend more than those dollar figures on kids anyway yeah just to raise them yeah no without a doubt i mean the percentage of the the roof replacement the percentage of the electric bill

the percentage of the insurance that the kid rides in the car the cost of the car the value of the loss in the car uh the kid is receiving the benefit of all of that and this is called raising your children in a family it's what it is and so mathematically you spend a lot more than that on the kids portion

of your life yeah and so there's no

you've done nothing wrong uh

by not setting it into a separate account and as a matter of fact setting it into a separate account i think would be wrong yeah it's the improper use of it it's not the most efficient use of the money so good question natalie is in canada hi natalie welcome to the ramsey show hi

dave thank you for taking my call

um i'm trying to figure out a few things but the main thing is whether or not to uh try and get my

husband on board with selling our house i've brought it up a few times but he really doesn't want to sell it at a loss we moved uh a year ago about

an hour and a half away from his current work he planned on getting job job around where we live we live in the middle of nowhere um with the intention of being able to grow our own food and just be out in the country again where we both kind of grew up and um anyway it hasn't happened yet he's trying but uh it hasn't happened we just realized we were expecting another so we've got one toddler and another on the way um so he has a job it's just an hour away

an hour and a half yes so he's traveling about three hours a day but the income is uh he takes home about

uh 31 000 and some uh 30

almost uh 31 200 a month

and um we don't have any

um uh real issues i suppose with

spending that we're aware we don't you know we don't have any money subscriptions we don't have any money no we don't have any money

thirty one thousand in the three hour drive a day i know where your money and babies i mean you're only any money no i i don't know how to convince them we're we're both believers um unfortunately because of covet all the churches are shut down the one we did get to know it's closed now and we really haven't developed any sense of community around here how much do you owe on the home natalie

okay uh so so far we have

we oh it's around

two hundred and eighty thousand okay uh

it was 300 just under 350 000 when we lost how are you making a payment on that making 31 grand

well we're losing we're leaving every month how um we

yeah i would guess how much is your house one payment one hundred and eighty three dollars

and how much do you all have in savings right now oh we're burning through it uh we've probably got yeah right now brought a thousand nine

hundred left to our names in liquid

and you're burning how much no um

we are burning i don't just found two got all kinds of papers in front of me um two thousand seven hundred and seven

dollars and forty so you don't even have a month left oh really no not really i mean two thousand over nineteen hundred you don't have any money left yeah i don't know what to do i don't know what to do um i'm trying to okay i don't know let me okay i'm a little bit confused let me let me stop i i don't want to i don't want to take your side and jump

all over him right now but that's how i'm no no that's how i'm feeling i don't like well because this is absolutely asinine that you guys have let this that you've let this burn down to this y'all should have been out there six months ago i agree and so i don't i don't understand why we're in denial about math what's his problem he doesn't want to show that a loss i don't care he's going to lose it to foreclosure i know but you said you bought it at 350 correct and it's now you owe 280.

down and really sitting down with him trying to hold his hands and i want you to schedule i've scheduled a a real estate agent to come over here tomorrow night because tonight we're about to have a come to jesus meeting the math is over we cannot that we cannot pretend anymore you've got your head stuck up something i don't know what it is and it's got to come out yeah

this is ridiculous and put put his hand on your belly and let him know you've got another baby coming this is crazy time time is on the edge i have i have he's even finished your book we bought your book on amazon he read it he's so excited so gung-ho he's not going to look for more jobs now but it's it's just not it's not about jobs it's about

this house is gone yeah yeah yeah it's gotta be it's a three-hour drive with a pregnant wife who's scared and he's out of money this house is gone

sell it before you lose it yeah what do we do do we rent or um you move to town and rent when we

went there it was eighteen hundred a month you're gonna have to get other jobs but listen what your your little dream of living in the country and growing veggies has turned into a nightmare yeah yeah i know and so something's got to change we can you cannot stay where you are yeah it's not going to work now then the only question is where are we going right

and you got to start figuring that out as a next step but this i i i don't know what you were waiting on were you waiting on the housing ferry to show up i mean it's not this isn't you know unless you were going to have an income all of a sudden start appearing that's double yours it's not gonna work this is not gonna work it's not gonna go

and so natalie the urgency you hear in our voice is that we don't want you all hanging out for another two to three months you don't have that you're never gonna come get the house yeah you don't have that time so i would much rather you all make a proactive decision reach out to your lender have a real conversation get the real estate agent the real estate elp over tomorrow

you are moving yeah voluntarily

or otherwise you are moving

much rather you be in control

this is where you are and so let's face it and decide what we're going to do where are we moving because we're moving yeah this house is gone i'm so sorry i'm sorry you guys have been through this but you've i you got to deal with it you

cannot you cannot not deal with it anymore

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chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host today the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five drew

is with us in chicago hi drew welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi how are you great it's a pleasure to speak with both of you too um so uh my wife and i uh have been

davis for years uh last march i was able to get my wife

a hundred percent on board uh i'm sure the pandemic had a little bit to do with that um so uh we started using the every dollar budget uh which allowed us to pay off our uh only vehicle loan um got rid of all the credit cards that we had wonderful um cash flowed three kids uh

braces we've got a fully funded

emergency fund now how does that feel oh it feels fantastic

good fantastic how's it feel to her

i'm sorry i said how does it feel to her oh uh she's she's wondering why we didn't

start it earlier

it was your fault say i told you so it was your fault drew i'm sure i'm not i don't know exactly how but i'm sure it was your fault drew do not say i told you so never

gonna work right i wrote all right good good so

um so we have college coming up uh i have uh my three kids are 15 uh excuse me 17 15

and 14.

we have 27 000 left on the mortgage

um and uh based on uh

some advice you just gave jacob a little while ago i think part of my answer uh question was answered um i i do have a non-retirement brokerage

account that i had 77 000 in

so i'm basically i was trying to figure

out what to do with that should i pay off the 27 000 mortgage

should i open and fully fund

uh two roth retirement funds for my wife

and i um what's your household income um

uh it's it's right at about 175.

excellent okay so here here's the here's the uh the hinge pin mathematically for your whole situation that'll set you guys free you need to sit down and map out for all three kids what you need what they need for college and how you're going to do that and when

you see that number and you see how you're going to do it it's going to set you free to do the other stuff because here's what's happening if i'm in your shoes i'm you tell me if i'm wrong but i think this is what how i would be feeling if i was sitting there i got this brokerage account i got a 27 000 mortgage i could easily pay

it off today um and i need to get my iras funded but god those kids that's coming at me like a freight train right now that that that big college bill is looming and i don't know what it is and i'm a little bit afraid if i pay that mortgage off and i start my fifteen percent baby step four into retirement that i'm not gonna have the money for college

right does that feel like and i do you feel that way you have uh i do i do i i now i i do have

uh a 457 uh through work

good um that that i have uh 150

about 150 000 all right so tell me the ages of the kids again uh 17 so uh she's a junior

um so we've got a little over a year and a half um 15 he's a freshman and then uh 14.

so so i have that uh 457 also

and they my employer

just changed the management of that 457

and as for the past many years

they didn't offer a roth uh option and now they do so i've stopped putting into the regular i've opened up the roth but it's you know so i still have the okay here's what i'm gonna do if i'm in your shoes all right i'm just going to throw some numbers down just for the fun of it but i want you to go do a formal version of

this with your wife okay let's let's say we research the kids college and a hundred thousand dollars will put them through each i don't think it will quite but i'm going to use that number for a minute okay so over the next four years

because i've got a 14 year old i need 300 grand

that makes sense yes i make 175

and so if i did four into 300 that'd be

75 a year i can cash flow that

right yes you see how having the numbers

helps you relax a little bit

so i know 75 000 a year for four years

and or a hundred thousand dollars a year yeah for four years you can cash flow that now a hundred percent of the time i'm going to write a check tonight and pay off your mortgage knowing that i can get there because you've already got 50 of your 300 to 400 that you're going to need 77 minus 27 is 50 right yup right

okay i got 50 of it now the only

question is in order to cash flow it am i going to have to tap the brakes a little bit on my retirement in order to cash flow college because i got college right here on top of me of course the kids are going to go to school they're going to they're going to take uh act testing and they're going to take it again they're going to apply for scholarships we're going to affordable schools we're not going to uber expensive schools

you don't have the money and you're going to go to you know something you can afford but even having done all of that you're looking at a three to four hundred thousand dollar bill over this period of time yeah roughly andrew once you do this you've got your mortgage payment now freed up because you paid off your house yeah so the only question that remains is how much retirement am

i going to be able to do while i'm cash flowing college for the next four years actually it's right so there's one uh wrinkle there too i i also will be receiving a pension um of probably right at about a hundred

thousand when you retire or a lump sum no when i

retire oh but we're not retiring anything way down the road yeah because when the kids are through school you're gonna load retirement when the kids are when the kids are through school you're gonna load up retirement yeah because you you've got that money so you can do this you're going to be good buddy now what you have to do is stay allergic to stupid from now on you got to map it out and you got to map out the kids school yeah and and have some firm discussions starting tonight on where you're going to school where you're not 17 year old yeah i mean and this is this is real but i'm writing a check paying off the house i got 50 started towards my three to four hundred thousand dollar need over the next four years before the last one starts school but we really have a total of eight years to spread it across so this makes it even more doable so you can map out the actual cash needs so the 17 year old starts i need this much cash this year right so you got your one out of your 50.

you probably got year two out of your 50. now the 15 year old starts school

and you got three and four for the first one and you got the second one right and you're going to end up with uh

two in school for quite a few years

at the same time but you can map that cash out and and out of your cash flow in your budget again with a reasonably priced education and

you're going to be able to do that and then back into how much can i put towards retirement out of that and paying cash for school so i'm going to have the discussion with them about that and we got but if once you map this out it's going to give you a ton of peace just like when you start doing a budget you feel like you got a raise

but all we're doing is we're mapping out the next eight years which gets the 14 year old four years starting school four years to finish school yeah and now you're not guessing you're not you don't have this thing looming over your head where you're wondering you can sit down and actually know and once you put a dollar amount to it now you can put a savings plan toward

it yeah this will work this will absolutely work hold on i'm gonna have kelly send you a copy of debt free degree number one bestseller by anthony o'neil and you guys need to read that and the kids need to read it uh is it'll help you understand that you can get a degree debt-free especially when mom and dad are 100 debt free house and everything and make 175 k ding ding it's doable it's very doable

but we got to plan it out we got to think about it and you can't you're not going to no one accidentally wins the super bowl it doesn't happen we noticed that the other night

this is the ramsey show

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our scripture of the day ecclesiastes 7 12 for the protection of wisdom is like the protection of money and the advantage of knowledge is that wisdom preserves the life of him

who has it john zinger says

great leaders are not defined by the absence of weakness but rather by the presence of clear strengths i've heard that one that is a

good that's a good one that is a good one chris hogan ramsey personality is my co-host here today david is with us in houston texas hi david how are you you know i don't know whether to say better than i deserve or focus but not finished i'm doing pretty well that's a pretty good hogan impersonation there that david i'm gonna give you an a on that one okay thanks hey um i've got a question

for y'all uh i'm 30 years old married i have

two kids three and under with one on the way and i am blessed to be debt free except for a mortgage um we got about 125k left to pay off on that um kind of a backstory is you know i grew up kind of as an fbu kid my parents did it back in i read your book dave total money makeover in 2008 and we did fp as a couple in 2013.

but i'm kind of struggling now um with

baby steps and burnout now we're on baby steps four five and six we purchased our home in 2015 as double income no kids and then in 2017 uh my wife quit after

we had our daughter in the middle of hurricane harvey and took a big pay cut there to about

70k then i was blessed out of promotion before i i got a 42 pay raise in 2019 so now i'm making about 110k um so my question i guess is you know

with all the things that i've found the more money i make the more things you have to pay for whether that's 529 for the kids home insurance life insurance property tax etc so how can i keep

my eyes and our eyes on our financial goal without running out of gas during dates that's four five and six

well the first thing that comes to mind is baby steps one through three are gazelle intensity and four five and six are not you move from intensity intensity to intentionality

on for on four five and six so four five

and six involves a budget for a vacation

it involves a budget for an upgraded vehicle it involves a budget for you're running a marathon here you're not running a sprint and so you're not on beans and rise rice and beans and you make 110 000 you've done very well in your career well done you're putting 15 percent of your income away you don't have any payments but a house payment you've got an emergency fund in place you have a very reasonable house mortgage and you got some kids and you're funding a 529 but you're you're slowing into a rhythm

run now you're not doing speed training

it's a marathon and i think you're still

have the trying to run the emotions at least if not maybe even trying to crank the math down as if you were still on gazelle intensity that'll burn you up you can't do that yeah and david you're also at that stage of life where you've got all of these young kids you got another one coming so you're feeling the pressure and destroying you're gonna get out yeah along with them along with lack of

sleep are you working from home too yes sir oh yeah man so you let's let's be honest the mindset on the financial side is they've said it's a mindset it's the intentionality factor but what you're feeling is the stress and strain from the other things of life and i want to tell you as a former master isolator because i was perfect at it i thought you don't want to do life alone

and so you want to get some good guys around you you want to have a connection and a relationship to talk about the stressors and strains of the kids of the pressure uh it's one of those things where we're not meant to do life alone so you need some community yeah and

you know it's the stage you're in oh yes i mean you've got uh there's not a lot of traction mathematically with where you are in these baby steps and the kids just keep piling up here and

you're just like i'm stuck and he doesn't get to leave he's working from home yeah yeah there's a lot that's a lot you know you you're i think just saying all that out loud oh helps with the idea of burnout that yes a normal human being in your situation would be stressed yes so if you are stressed you are a normal human you are normal you are not a psychopath no and if you were just clueless then i

would tell you i'd worry about your mental health you are feeling exactly where you are right now in this season brother we'll get you out of the house and working yeah that'll be helpful it will and we get the baby here the last one that'll be that'll be gonna be the the that'll be helpful yeah and you get in there you know but you're not going to see one of

the frustrations that we've watched people experience and i guess we've all experienced that walk these baby steps is that you see such huge chunks of traction in the first three yeah and then when you go to four five and six it just slows down yes and it's the long haul this is a it's a

five seven year ten year slog that's just a thought and we're just that's why we budget in there for the upgrades and some of the other things as you go along you budget right for this or that and um you know if you need to back off on a 529 just a little bit in order to breathe have a fun

fund yes a little bit while you're here this is the time that it's appropriate to do that i just want you doing it on purpose and i don't want you to fall into debt right because you take your take your eyes completely off the ball so you go from intensity to intentional yeah and that's where we want to be and david just like the seasons of the weather

this season too will change my friend it really will just hang in there with your wife make sure you guys relationship is connected get some coaching if you need to or some counseling if you need to but get some good guys around you so you can do life with them because you got other fellows that are feeling the same thing you know it's weird it feels like it's yesterday in some ways

and in some ways it feels like it was a hundred years ago but the year rachel was born we filed bankruptcy we had no money that's why you filed bankruptcy and i got a toddler a marriage hanging

on by a thread i'm working from home and i'm broke

i got no money and um

you know sharon was to say the least overwhelmed she wanted me away she didn't want to look at me to start with right then that's pretty disgusted uh valid valid

but uh you know i mean we went through a similar season uh but much worse yeah in the sense of there was not money for uh the electric bill and there was not money you know we're i mean we didn't go hungry literally but we were broke we had no money and i had to go make money every week in order to just pull things together and

i got little babies my self-esteem is destroyed my marriage is on the rocks i mean it's that was a tough tough season and so it feels like when i talk about it it comes up in my throat and i remember it like it was yesterday but it was you know 30 years ago so uh in that sense david you're in a similar type thing but much better

and i'm not saying yours is that your your feelings aren't valid they are valid right uh but you're just that that's what that those young that young kid stage of life they suck they suck the marrow out of your bones yes emotionally that's what they they're so needy takers

um we love them they're cute as they can be but that's why when i have all the grandbabies over i mean that's how i send them back home that's why i send them back home because i love them but they need to go home have to go home you know and it's just they you know when you're when you're six months old and you can't do anything for yourself you're all

you are is a taker man i mean we love you you're cute as a button and uh papa dave's gonna bounce you on my knee but um but they they do they pull the energy

out of and the math out of everything and and so it is valid to feel that it's not really a burnout it's more of a

i'm not getting traction yeah fatigue it's a fatigue it is a fatigue yeah it's a mental it's a math fatigue an emotional fatigue a spiritual fatigue it is a relational fatigue yep and uh so

yeah just own that and and say that that's real get some guys guys of young families around you like chris suggested yeah form your group of guys get out of the house yes go to the store and just walk around go in the backyard and hit a tree with a stick i don't know do something man i mean uh

that's get out of that house yeah let your wife get out of the house too take turns take turns yeah for god's sakes yeah budget for a babysitter that's a good thing yeah i mean i'm with you brother that's what we're saying but you'll get through it and you can still hit your baby step yes you can just don't let this cause you to fall off the horse that puts

this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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## 193. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 12, 2021)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:31:02 |

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this is the ramsay show you can be intentional

about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm john dolone joined here with my good friend and best-selling author mrs rachel cruz and we are here to talk to you about what's going on in your life give us a shout at 825-5225

money relationships challenges whatever's going on give us a shout rachel how are we doing doing great yeah it's gonna be yeah good

show john we did an hour yesterday we made it barely three hours today we're barely surprised oh that's so good oh it's so fun and i'm excited about tonight our money and marriage event is gonna be really fun we just finished the final block in here a little bit it's going to be a blast yeah yeah it's great can we awesome um before we go i have to just make this public announcement i was wrong when i bet

our engineer here that the buccaneers

were going to lose to my patrick mahomes ah

i lost kyle gotcha kyle won i was incorrect and i felt it appropriate too he's reminding me every day how wrong i was he's that guy that's still wearing bucks gear here we are like seven days later or whatever a little sport in the hat kyle some of us would say just let it go but i know that's the attitude of a loser so way to go kyle

you won i was wrong all right let's go to josiah in salt lake city josiah what's going on how can we help hey dr d and rachel thanks for taking my call to keep a long

story short um for for a little bit now i've had some suspicion that my brother was stealing money through uh various sources from my disabled mother i confronted him about it and let my mother know what was going on he still has not been 100 honest with either me or my mother um my issue is this isn't a first time saying he's stolen from me before i'm just finding it hard to keep a relationship with both my brother and my mom because now um she's she's looking at as

if it's a minor issue um and i'm worried

that it's just gonna bleed or dry and eventually he's just gonna be gone and i'm gonna be stuck trying to

fund her for the rest of her life yeah

you man i hate this for you josiah you're wrestling with um i can hear as you're processing this you're turning in this into a future math problem but man i want to bring you back to right here this just hurts man and i hate that for you what's what struggles does your mom have um she's since i was 10 so about 20 years ago she was diagnosed with art she's now just got multiple other health issues um she's she's basically

been bedridden my whole life that's hard man

so here's a challenge that everybody

with this type of family situation deals with we all are we love our brothers and sisters our moms and dads we are all trained to um and socialized and it's just the right thing i mean you you take care of your family right you default to that and unfortunately there's these moments like you're experiencing when your brother is still your brother but

he also becomes that grown man that's hurting mom right and at some point you have to lean into that and do hard things which like call the police and if your brother's stealing from your mom and you've got proof of it and your mom is not in a position to take care of yourself then that's the logical responsibility it's hard and it feels like you're violating that family what i'll tell

you it's it's a phrase i use all the time but it's not by your hand but it's in your lap right you didn't cause this you're not going to be the you're not going to be the result you're not going to be the person who who broke up the family your brother is making some really reckless um wrong decisions taking advantage of your mom and now it's your situation to

to to deal with right because your brother's not acting with character right and josiah does he have does he still have the ability to steal from your mom like is it accounts numbers that he has yeah so i i actually kind of put the

kibosh on that um she she because she was so dependent on

me and him she had her he had her debit

card and so i i forced him to give it back to her

and i told her that because now they have that information that she needs to change her her card number and everything immediately yeah yeah yeah so i think it's i think that's the right thing to do brother and i think you're it's just one of those moments where you find yourself in a hard position you didn't cause this you didn't it's not not your fault but now you're

the person who's going to be responsible be the person of integrity that's going to have to turn and deal with it and so that means getting the authorities involved if your brother is going to continue to kind of be the person that steals from your mom i hate that terrible and then josiah too i mean i know i think focusing on the present is extremely important right now

but also to know long term like it probably is going to be you taking care of your mom i mean if she's if she is bedridden and she doesn't have a way to make an income then she is going to need to eat right i mean like and your brother is obviously not a dependable trustworthy person so i

would go ahead and emotionally say okay what can i do to help my mom in the future because it probably is going to be you josiah so i'd be thinking about that as well and those are those are we just talk to millions of people who are faced with those situations mom and dad don't want to sign over you know accounts or they won't can't join accounts

and i'm just trying to do the math what my future might look like and sometimes it's there is no easy answer to that right right but there's a responsible answer you can pretend it's not going to happen or you could pretend yeah this is probably going to be us you your future spouse you know we've got to start planning for this financially what does that look like yeah oh man uh

let's go to calvin in st george utah calvin what's going on man how can we help hi a pleasure to be on the show a big fan i've been listening for a long time um

so i was recently accepted into dental

school and uh the cost of dental school is really high as you may be away yes and my first place may be in excess

of 400 000 in debt um to go to dental school

um i applied to the military scholarship because i am such a big fan of dave ramsey's show and i'm kind of living debt i applied for military scholarship uh they will completely pay for the schooling um but i owe them year for year of the school so it's a four-year commitment to them um my question is is it worth the opportunity cost i could potentially get out of dental school and be making much more than what the military would pay me and potentially pay it off in four to

six years and living under my knees

or should i take the military scholarship that they'll cover and then have that commitment to them and it's just kind of what would you recommend on that what do you want to do do you want to go to the military uh yes i i do have interest in the military why do you want to go to the military what is it about the military that excites you service to country

i am interested in and um i do stand for a lot of the same values they have okay so i i would i would back up and rachel

i'd love you to hop in here i'd back up and you're not not going to dental school you're not going to take up 400 thousand dollars or half a million dollars with the loans because you like dave ramsey you're not going to take a half million dollars worth of loans because that's half a million dollars worth of loans and you never know when a pandemic's going to come through

and say they're going to close your dental practice for a year and you're going to be up a creek and on top of that you're a guy who wants to serve in the military and the military has this incredible program that's going to pay for it for you and so if those two interests align i wouldn't tell you to go to the military if you were just trying to scam

the system so they'll pay for something but if you are about service which you are you love their values which you are i think that's commendable and extraordinary man let them pay for your dental school you're going to serve all of our absolutely you're going to learn by serving our soldiers and our military and then you're going to be able to come make a great difference in your local community brother

i love your heart that's what i would do man this is the ramsay show

folks it's an honor to tell you about the army national guard not only are they big supporters of our high school curriculum but they also give you the opportunity to impact your local communities whether your goals are to get an education serve your country or have a better life the army national guard can help you get there plus they offer unbelievable financial benefits secure your future today visit nationalguard.com ramsey to find out more

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triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show and i'm john deloney joined here with rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on money taking your calls on life

relationships are hard right now money is tight things are just hard give us a shout let's go to nathan in atlanta georgia nathan what's going on how are we doing hey thank you for taking my call you bet brother what's going on all right so uh i'm 26 years old i mean i'm 24 years old i'm married to my wife she's 23 years old and we have 62

000 in debt and we make 72 000 combined

and in may we're about to lose her income for a while because she is going to move into uh real estate and be a real estate agent okay um two of those loans to

part of that debt is collection so our credit scores are pretty much non-existent they're really bad and we have two cars and uh one car has

sixteen thousand dollars owed on it and her car has uh thirty six thousand dollars owed on it okay so we can't go to a credit agency and you know get a loan for the depreciation on her car however i can sell mine i have a thousand dollars equity in it but we're just i'm just kind of wondering where i go from here because we we started the 14-day trial of ramsey

plus and we've been doing the financial keys university stuff but just kind of overwhelmed a little bit right now yeah for sure uh so the 36 000 car how

much is it worth now it's uh worth twenty nine thousand twenty nine i only bought it like six months ago and

have you talked to a local credit union nathan yeah they're outside of atlanta of a couple have you sat down with them and shown them showing them the numbers i mean like you have all the paperwork you're talking to them did you do it yes we went to our local one called connecticut credit union yeah that's where we actually bank at and we showed them everything and uh

we just don't have the credit to do anything about it i mean i'm looking at our with our debt con you know getting this debt paid off i can probably do it in four years uh

with just my income but and hopefully

she can start selling some houses but i know that when you go into real estate it's a while before you actually collect it yeah what is she doing what is she doing now nathan she's captioning phone calls for people that are hard of hearing okay and how much does she make in that she only makes about 26 000.

26. okay so she'll i mean yeah real

estate it takes a little bit but you're in a hot market so hopefully she's going to be making more commissions than 26 000. i was about to say depending on how much percentage of her income for her to just stay in that job for another year or two just to be bringing in a steady income to be able for you guys to pay off this debt but she's only making 26 so i'm like no she she can make more doing real estate could she do both rachel uh

yeah she could do both is that possible nathan that real estate while you know you're grinding it out you're doing those things can she do both for a season it's going to be a busy hard season it just feels like a really an opportune time to lose half your income uh the issue with that

is the company she works for it doesn't give you an option on your scheduling and uh she has talked to them about possibly going part-time but even then her schedule would be so whacked and it's it's not a set schedule like you know what you're going to be working they change it every week and she wouldn't be able to keep appointments and stuff like that she's going to have to leave that job okay okay so nathan let me get a little bit more um tactical your the debts you got you have

the two car payments and then what else do you have i've got the two car payments we've got a 1200 credit card okay we've got a 4 500

credit card that we bought furniture with okay and i've got 4 500 in collections my wife has a 2600 student loan and she has a 900 collection that's a medical bill okay okay

so the the the positive thing here is

that besides that 36 dollar car and you're sixteen thousand i'd sell your sixteen thousand go ahead and get a thousand dollar car go ahead and just get that out of the way because that's going to give you just like a oh a breath of fresh air of not having that 16 grand i would go talk to two more credit unions to see if there's anything they can do to get a loan for the difference to get rid of that 36 000.

you may be just stuck with it which i hate to say it but that might be the case and then for you guys i mean nathan you're gonna it's gonna be a level of intensity and sacrifice for you and your wife for probably

a good 24 months and the more

you guys can bring in in the income side

and we're just saying maybe she maybe she stays at that 26 000 job to your point john and starts selling houses at night when people are off work doing open houses on sundays doing stuff on saturdays but just going full-fledged because there's a lot of these little like 900 1200 if you guys buckle down you do a tight budget you can start knocking some of this stuff out

and that's the beauty i love about the debt snowballs like you're you're it's all these numbers and besides the big car payments it's these little ankle biters and i'm like man you can just put so much intensity and start knocking those out but you guys have to be working together in this and there's going to be extra work on the side yeah i would i nathan if

if that's me and i have a dream of being a real estate agent but i find myself in your situation i'm going to have a hard take a hard look at take weight in a year waiting two years and maybe doing this job and getting the nighttime gig driving or clawing and scratching whatever you guys got to do this feels like an emergency and it also feels like something that's solvable

but you may have to hold off on the dream part until you get some of this the math part that's really against you um here's the thing this is going to be hard on your marriage so i want to make sure y'all are connected we're going to start you off right so i want you to hang on and kelly is going to give you guys a free ticket to tonight's live stream with me

and rachel as soon as the show's over we're gonna head out to the to the tv studios here tonight at 7 p.m we have the marriage and money event you can go to daveramsey.com events for tickets it's going to be hilarious it's going to be fun we're also going to tell you the truth about your marriage your money how y'all can come together about intimacy all these things that folks are wrestling with

and nathan we want to give you guys this gift to start you guys off on this journey you guys got to hang in there with each other running hard and fast for 24 long months

all right let's go to tony in norfolk virginia tony what's going on man how can we help hi how are you doing good good good okay

so let me keep it as brief as possible i am a high school spanish teacher and my salary is in the upper 40s that's uh my contracted salary and i had 15 000 of student loan debt

back from college that i i paid some of it off it was higher than that it's now down to 15 000.

wife's a homemaker we have kids now just so you know i bought my house before i knew about dave ramsey so don't get mad at me no we're not we're not man yeah but i have i have baby stuff one

already done with and uh this house that

i bought is actually an older house and i did that to sort of keep the price low but there are things that need to be repaired around here and so i have a tax return coming in and what my wife and i were discussing and you just want to sort of get you guys advice about it should i throw my whole tax return at the student loans or should

i hold back a significant chunk of it in case some sort of repair pops up around here how how much is the refund going to be in the neighborhood of six grand of six thousand and what kind of repairs what kind of repairs are you think are you just saying like it's okay cosmetic or is it for example it's an older house that's on a well it's

you know serve out in sticks and uh the uh water needs treatment to make it fully potable like you know it's because we've been buying water and drinking that rag and drinking what comes out as well because it needs a water softener system installed and all those kinds of things yeah but you guys i mean you can you can have water bottled water or whatever right i mean like you're not dependent on that wet is that well

i mean is it i'm on a wheel and i i got you tony yeah if that well goes out that will goes out right then there's no there's no toilets showers nothing exactly but my i guess yes but i'm asking like the urgency of it like is it do you is it is it you don't know when it's gonna go out is it that oh yeah i know

when we bought the house they said we have three months like no it's it's it's still it's still it's still working now the problem is the water needs to be softened and conditioned because it's eroding our pipes basically like the acidity and things like that and the water need to actually be treated because that could lead to other plumbing problems okay well yeah i mean your

your food and water when you have your basics that you need to be covered now a water softener looking at what that costs if that's something that you absolutely need to do i just want you to get caught up in this house and it keeps sucking down your money and your student loans hanging around so it's a prior it's a prioritization that you're going to have to do

so if the question is ultimately yeah should we add a couple more thousand bucks just to be safe what i don't want you to do is pull that and feel like we're gonna start remodeling we're gonna start upgrading right you're still in this debt emergency yeah but if you know you've got a big thing hanging over you i don't have a problem with you putting that aside

if you know what's going to happen it's happening if you get to the end of this year and you need to pay it off then you can just dump that money onto that student loan but let's get that sucker paid off and thanks for being a teacher during this madness what a saint

[Music]

[Applause] we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

[Music]

triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show i'm dr john deloney joined with my good friend best-selling author host of the world famous rachel cruz show the world famous rachel cruz you know one thing we do well here what we spend a lot of creative energy time on our on our titles titling tv shows and podcasts good grief rachel cruz show

the john delany show there's just so many meetings about it just like wow so many right so crazy and this is unveiling we've got it guys here it is all right let's go to matt in uh cleveland matt what's going on man hey john hey rachel hey what's up how can we help hey um so i have a question um i'm starting to feel a lot of kind of resentment or frustration towards some of my friends who are being financially irresponsible

like they'll be going on vacations when i know that you're like either they'll complain about money issues or things of that issue or they won't have jobs i know dave shout dave says to share

your journey but that doesn't seem to work um listening to the show all the time

i feel like financially winning is what dave teaches and so i mean i'm kind of out of i feel like i'm the crazy one sometimes but listening to your show i feel like the normal one i don't know um so how can i stop the feelings that i have of not everyone wins um

so whenever i hear the word resentment the word resentment or resentment in general is the absolute death bell of a relationship whenever you cross that line to like i'm frustrated with you that means you're in a good relationship i'm annoyed i'm angry with you that means you're in a good relationship that means there's things about this that you care about when you get to the resentment part it's an ash right it's hard

and when we talk to folks whose marriage when they resent their per their partner man that's hard to come back from my first question to you is it feels like you have an air of

superiority around your friends that i'd want to challenge you on that you you handle money differently than they do there you feel like they're being irresponsible

there's a gap between um friends like

hey i don't make that decision i'll make that decision yours feels a little bit higher than that do you feel like you're better than them walk me through where your head's at man um it's it's more just when they're going on vacations but um but i mean the next day they'll complain about their problems i'm like come on like if you didn't take that vacation like you'd have the money to do you know to pay your car rent i mean carly's so rachel i'd love to get

your thoughts i i have something with my buddies with my longtime friends which is when they ask for my opinion i'll give it to them yeah and if they don't i am in such a tight relationship with them that i feel free to mock their choices and we do it in good fun because we love each other right um but i don't hold the outcome i just am committed to sitting with them

when things are challenging right so when they call me and they say i went on a vacation i didn't now i can't make rent i get to say well duh right

but i'm not going to hold it's not my fault that they made that decision right that's right i'm not going to hold that because yeah there's a level of of responsibility matt i feel like you're taking on for your friends and that's what's like stirring up all these emotions and so being able to see my counselor

did this about a different relationship in my life but i wish you could see me but he like had these scissors and he was like pretending to cut these like strings he's like cut the strings yeah cut the strings you're not emotionally responsible for this so matt you're not respond you're not responsible for their choices and yeah if they're just complaining all the time then you can say hey are

you good if i just kind of share where i'm at what what i see and in a loving way just like yeah i mean if that cost two grand and your rent 600

you know 1200 yeah you could have used it i mean i don't know it's just math and but it's not emotional because you're you're not responsible for them that's right matt can i ask you one other question it's gonna sound like i'm coming after you but i just want to get to a little bit deeper is there a part of you that wishes you were going on

these vacations with them part of me wishes i could go on the vacation um part of me yeah part of me does wish i could go on those vacations with them so that's a big moment man and it's okay

to be frustrated that the the choices

you're choosing to make in your life are cutting out on some fun right now that the choices you are choosing right now are annoying right they are keeping you

from you know firecrackers and whatever i get that dude and it sucks the moment you can say i'm frustrated and you can pause and say am i frustrated just because i want to be going on a vacation but i'm sticking to this budget for the time being because i'm playing a long game with my life or am i frustrated because i love my friends and they're making ding-dong choices or am

i just a grumpy guy right if you find that i'm just frustrated that i don't get to go then you can circle back to i'm making a series of choices because i'm i'm investing in my future i'm investing in my family i don't even have yet i'm investing in filling all these things i want to be able to help my neighbor in any way shape form or fashion man

then you've got a frustration's okay right yeah it's just part of the process and like rachel said you don't own their outcome yeah right divorce yourself and i think one of the hardest things when it comes and probably anything in life but specifically money with people in your life so whether it's parents spouse for well no i wouldn't count spouses but friends uh parents in-laws right i mean

all these people in your life and when they make different choices than you make and you hear the complaining and all of that i mean that that's a very very real thing and understanding that until they ask your opinion yeah just keep it to yourself yeah or like you said matt already like share your story share where you're at if you long for that but that is a hard thing for people

because there's a level of control we want to have for the people that we love because you do see them harming themselves you're like dang it dang it but listen they're grown-ups and they get to make their decisions and my guests matt is if you sat down with them they'd say man matt when you're not around we all talk about you we want you just to have some more fun

and smile and so what if we figured out ways to do some things together that maybe didn't involve this you're not late on any of your bills yeah exactly you pay your bills every month so thanks for that call matt and um next time you get sideways just pause for that that one moment and say is this just cause i'm jealous is this because i'm frustrated or is

this because i'm trying to hold on to somebody else's outcome man and free yourself from that i love that analogy cut the strings that's good all right let's go to amy in hartford what's up amy how are we doing hi there you guys i'm doing well how are you today good how can we help sure

so my husband and i have been married for just over a year um and we're actually looking to buy our first house and we were just wondering if we couldn't run some numbers by you guys and see what you all think about um where we are with our numbers what we can afford what we should be looking for in a first house absolutely

yeah let us know bring it on bring it rachel no numbers to the others i might get myself on

calculator in just a second but [Laughter] sure so um right now we have about

just under 38 000 in our savings

um we've managed to actually pay off all of our debts

um so i can't that free spring my husband's not here he's at work it's my day off um so we've

got probably about 25 000 worth of debts that we've paid off so we're pretty good at saving and hitting it hard where it counts in regards to debt so he makes probably about 40 uh

45 000 a year i'm just under 30.

um but in the next maybe two months or so he's going to be going after a different job in which he'll probably make about 70 000 so we should be bringing in just under a hundred thousand okay uh do you guys have any is that the

38 000 the only savings you have

correct yeah we've got a little buffer in our checking it's just under 5 000.

yeah for sure um okay well our rule of thumb when it comes to buying a home is that i want your payment to be no more than 25 of your take-home pay i want you to be able to put down 10 to 20 for a down payment

and that 25 take-home pay your mortgage payment is on a 15-year fixed rate so so doing that math so the 70 000 job

is that a guarantee it's happening and he's waiting to transition or is he hoping he has it no it's guaranteed it's actually family-owned business so um he's going to be working with his dad so it's already been talked about and agreed upon this pay rate okay awesome awesome so i would do all your calculations off of a hundred thousand dollar income but that thirty eight thousand though amy

i want some of that to stay as your emergency fund do not spend that all in the down payments you guys have a little ways to go to save it for that down payment depending on what house you wanna buy how much that's gonna be but run those numbers that's kind of the formula we use and you guys are in an awesome position no debt emergency funds it's pretty fun just being newlyweds man that's super cool what an ex that's an exciting place to be amy that's awesome

this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show i'm john dolone with my good friend rachel cruz and we're taking your calls on life money triple eight eight two five five two two five we have somebody in our lobby that wants to ask a live question he's got the headset on he's standing on the debt free stage not doing the debt free scream not yet but he wants to ask us a question in person where

we have to look each other in the eye which is kind of funny andy this doesn't happen very often that's really cool so i can't i'm just overwhelmed to be here today well we're grateful that you're here so what's going on man how can we help so i pastor a church in southern illinois we have about 400 people in attendance right before kovitz started we were about to pull

the trigger on building a new sanctuary last year we did our first financial peace university class at our church this year we just started a new one last week and man we it's changed my wife myself my wife's life matt and nick you're here with us today we've seen a variety of different families in our church just greatly changed by the program and man it's just it's brought in a whole new attitude

but one of the things going through it is that we're looking to to borrow around 2.2 million dollars to build a new sanctuary scripture says borrower is slave to the lender your dave repeats that often and so i thought do you guys think it's hypocritical for a church who is practicing the principles of financial peace university in their personal lives to go out and borrow money in a church setting

so before you answer that as somebody who used to meet with people behind closed doors right on hard conversations you get a sense when somebody already has an answer in their heart as they're asking the question even though he framed it and so andy i feel really strongly that you

have an answer yes walk us through where you

are and how you got there okay well it goes a little further than that even and so um recently god's been doing a great work in me just through this last year and so the thought process is is that number one the answer should be no we shouldn't we should practice what we preach and if we tell you to do it in your personal lives we should do in our church life secondly

the state of illinois is kind of different right now and i don't want to go too much into that but one of the things that we've just started at our church is to actually help families the the educational institution illinois is not good and so one of the reasons for starting at fpu was to help our families live within their means so they could help afford christian education

and so this year our church started to adopt this program to where we will partner with a family for up to 50 percent of biblical education and every one of our to every one of our members yeah just rolled that out wow and so one of the thought processes is we would rather we would rather educate our children than build a building but at the same time we're literally out of room right

and so it's one of these catch-22s but you know it's hard to go borrow 2.2 million dollars when you're telling your families man live within your means go into biblical education exactly and so it's a difficult situation so i've got a really strong visceral reaction to this question for a couple different reasons but i want to turn it over to the wiser calmer one of us first what do

you think rachel i mean you you answered it i mean my yeah my answer is gonna be it's consistent so whether it's a bid someone's opening a business i never tell them to take out a small business loan for a church it's the same way and and what's difficult though i understand it's the building constraints but i'll tell you here at ramsey we were in a building about 10 miles north of where

we are right now and we were outgrowing it and it was like man but there wasn't cash there to to buy something and so we could have you know taken a loan out and built something like this you know years and years ago but we rented out another space and we rented out another space and we were in five different buildings and it was so inconvenient it was not fun

we had like a little shuttle that went around and like oh it was just it was it was not it was not ideal but we move at the speed of cash around here and we do that because we really do believe the borrower is slave to the lender and your your whole paradigm shifts again whether it's a church whether it's a business whether it's your personal life

when you owe someone money the way you look at things and so to be able to say man are we invested into this program like what you guys are doing is what how creative and how amazing and fun of that education and just move at the speed of cash just save over time and it's going to be uncomfortable it's not going to be fun but also covid hello

you know i mean you couldn't meet for for months probably you know so like it it really uh thank god for covid because if you wouldn't go borrow two points it literally helped 2.2

million and couldn't even use it at that point so that was that maybe god may have saved you right there and for me it's it's it's that and i get

real personal with it being i tell teenagers i've told

teenagers for years when they were whining about their parents this and that my parents this and i'd always tell them if your parents are paying for that car they're paying for that fill in the blank they get to speak into it it's theirs right and anytime a church a business me

when i hitch myself to somebody else they get to tell me what to do that's just the rules right right and i think sometimes um like i i

find myself speaking out about it's not because i hate institutions i think institutions actually do wonderful stuff on broad big scales but man when i owe somebody they get to tell me what to do and i there's a lot of yelling and screaming these days and people don't don't they forget that man i hitch myself to that wagon most most recently in my life i haven't had a mortgage in a while right i got one recently and i'm having trouble sleeping because i am now

in debt to the bank right and they get to tell me nope you're going to keep going to work every day you're going to keep filling the blank right right and so i'm going to tell you i think a remarkable conversation for a leader in a church right now is to stand up and say this is going to be messy we're going to figure it out but we're going to do the right thing and we are not going to hitch our wagon to a state a bank a federal government or

whatever and it's not is it gonna be inconvenient yep are we gonna have to have 14 services and do all this weird whatever yep right um but i think it's the right thing to do right and i'm just grateful for your heart man oh absolutely and i would say this too as someone who attends a church when i know because our church is debt-free they paid off all of their building debt about four years ago

and it was incredible and so now i know when i tithe that it's not going to bank of america right you know it's not going to an interest payment it's literally going to a single mom because we have a whole car's ministry and it's buying single mom cards like that's like that's what it's like it's going or it's going to my pastor right to help pay his salary

the the church staff like i know where my money's going and as a as a someone who tithes and gives i'll tell you the heart of your congregation to have that conversation with john just said yeah that builds trust and honestly i think that's a that's a beautiful conversation just to say it out loud i'm only putting one foot on a soapbox here because i could get myself in trouble

i wish every every church in america any

denomination would have a hard look in the mirror and say how much money are we paying to the salaries of our local bankers that could be going to feeding the kids in our communities it could be putting kids in schools that could be helping single moms we do a lot of bickering and yelling about you know government intrusion and social programs and we sure like new shiny things in churches yeah that's that's been

the heart is that you know especially with this this education program is you know churches right now we're losing seven to one and so for every seven kids in this generation we're only getting one back in the next and my thought was man if we build a building in 20 years we cannot have people to put in it that's right if we don't start investing in our kids now

and the in the big heart is is that you know you pay this much money each month to uh for brick and mortar you know when you can invest man in in the in the future of our kids coming up yeah and we're not mad at brick and mortar no not at all absolutely like it's it's a great thing you got the space all of it yeah yeah yeah yeah

i praise god yeah there's something about being in this action yep moving at the speed of cash so i think you know it i mean even the way you asked the question that was a great call i hope every single small business owner i hope every single non-profit leader hope every single pastor in this country is listening this conversation and listening to your heart man because the more money

we pass out in other people's salaries that could be going to healing these communities right we the only gap person to fill that gap becomes the government right that's the greatest one of the biggest problems we have in society today is the church isn't playing the role of the church right right america he said it not me just kidding amen so ben i appreciate your heart and financial peace university

we talk about what could the people of god do for the kingdom of god if they had no debt and that's on an individual basis but we say yeah you put the government out of business right like as believers if you didn't have your car payments your credit cards your student loans and you were able to give outrageously that is literally the movement that is what changes

so we did our our finished university class last year are giving one of almost a hundred thousand dollars amazing well thank appreciate you

man pay off your debts

and then give recklessly yep first hour in the books my good friend rachel cruz big thanks to kelly and to james we'll see you just in a

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am dr john dolone

joined here with best-selling author and all-around good human being ms rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on life on money whatever's going on in your heart mind give us a shout triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel how's the family how's everybody how we doing we're doing good yeah i'm trying to think yeah

we our kids are in school so i feel like that changes the game i know i'm not everyone around the country right now so i still think about all you moms that are having those computers up and doing online school and the dads that are making home offices in there that's right that's right yes so laundry room so when the kids are in school it's a great thing it's a whole whole different world

so we're doing great that's awesome we have awesome teachers awesome teachers but uh but no yeah it's it's great winston are doing well talking about marriage because tonight's is the biggest thing this is the money in marriage events which i'm so excited about all right so tell everybody what's going on this evening yeah so john and i will be hosting i say hosting teaching talking hanging out yeah kind of like a hangout

i know we want to make it's going to be fun you guys that was like john and i's number one goal about tonight we want you we we have a lot of fun we have things we want to say we have an important message that to talk about you know how do you how do you get united with your spouse when it comes to money and if

you are how do you elevate that like how do you really dig in how do you have these vulnerable great conversations on you know like we're gonna talk about some really great rich stuff but also but also it's gonna be really fun i feel like the last thing on earth i want is to sit down on a couch with my wife

hold hands turn on the tv and have somebody just lecture me for two hours right that just seems like the worst possible thing best valentine's evening the least romantic the last thing i need is something else to make my life less romantic i'm already working from home right parents all over the place kids i don't want to sit there for two hours that's me lecture me so we've set

this thing up it's gonna be a blast and our friends george and courtney are gonna be there too it's just gonna be a a good time it's gonna be a fun evening and we're getting to some topics that ramsay has not traditionally gotten into right we're going to be talking about is forging the way is that a phrase that's not super a good way to say that

but it will kind of we're going to be talking about our romance man our intimacy man our how we

are communicating with one another when things have gotten hard this last year things were hard before this year that's just exposed but was already hard and so we're not going to flinch away from any of the challenging conversations we're going to take live q a during the show so please check it out shy john dolone is really shy if you haven't felt that and so he's going to kind of tip toe around some subjects that's like

you haven't been in all these meetings rachel for the last year i've had to i've been working it with other therapists or with professors or with other crisis people for so long that it's not weird to be like oh i'm so sorry tell me about your sex life how are things going and when we're having these conversations here is everyone's eyes bug out it's like 401 401 401 right

so 401k 41k 401ks right so we are in new territory but those are real questions that people struggling with oh yes well what's funny in my line of work if someone asks me a money question like outside of office stuff they're like well you know everything about doing this i'm like okay well how much do you guys make right and like what and i'm like oh sorry yeah people don't talk about yeah

you don't talk about that think about it that's exactly i love that too so funny so funny yeah i don't talk to my friends about how much uh they make that's a great have you thought about that no but and i and i don't say it obviously to like no just automatically yeah i'm like well how much do you make how much debt you have i love

it so anyway go to daveramsey.com

events get your tickets we can't wait to see you there we have exceeded they gave us this okay here's here's our goal right here's what we want to have sweet john and rachel i wonder how many people so we they if they set a goal that was like realistic and you're way past that goal so there's

please join us daveramsey.com events make a dinner tonight um whoever doesn't usually cook you make the dinner and then you'll sit down get the kids to bed early you know what i'm even giving you permission put them on a screen in another room just have them go away we start at seven o'clock and just take this time to be with y'all two together you and your spouse be

there together and um enjoy each other enjoy some new content and have some laughs along the way all right so let's grab one call here let's go to chris in boston chris what's going on hey guys it's good to speak with you um i've got a money question for rachel and a higher ed question for dr john all right bring it um all right so money questions

first i'm in baby step two uh i've been doing it for about two years and i've got about three more years to go uh 163 000 worth of student loans

plus a motorcycle and a car but um

yeah everything's paid off except for my student loans um i've got 90 000 left to go so i've paid off wow

grand in the last two years way to go man great job chris thank you so as i was reading the total money makeover a month or two ago i came across a sentence that that made me question whether or not i should be investing um i i believe dave wrote

that if it's going to be a longer baby step too you might want to do small investments while you're doing it because if it's going to take me close to three years to finish paying everything off i'll be 32 years old and all have is you know three thousand dollars in a roth ira whereas if i invest 200 a month

for the next three years it'll only push

my payoff date by maybe three months and

i'll have at least a whole another year's worth of investment in that roth ira i want to know what you think yeah so i hear that and that mathematically is all correct

but there's this visceral emotional

sacrifice that i want you to have which i feel like you have it because you've already paid off so much student loan debt already but yes i our rule of thumb black and white answer here is pause investing and everything goes toward the debt and that that's our answer french all the time so even that sentence i would have to even go back because honestly i don't even remember him saying that um but i mean i was on page like 128.

128. well look i'll look it up i'll be talking to goodwill hunting in boston that's awesome i know um but no and you're still young chris i mean like maybe we tilt the conversation if you're 65 and you have no retirement or anything but even but even then my advice would be no you want to get this debt out of your life and so chris you have time i know it doesn't feel like it because you think oh i'm going to be 32.

psychology and my side hustle is that i coach uh two swim teams and you know there's a

huge need for counseling for our kids and most of them don't have access to it so my bachelor's degree is in psychology yeah um and i didn't know if you knew anything about the field of performance psychology or if maybe just a master's in counseling would be sufficient but yeah i i think i think i would start with a master's in counseling and you when you move into those type of performance psychology or child psychology that's

when you're getting a clinical degree which is at the doctorate level i think you are great to go in and get a master's in counseling you have that experience working with kids in that coaching area so it's going to be a natural link there and then you can do continuing education on the back end to get some specific things about working with kids in sports but yeah get that masters in counseling

we need more people working in mental health who love their neighbors you're the guy man thank you so much this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show i'm dr john dolone joined with best-selling author and good human being rachel cruz i probably should stop calling you a good human being i know i like the title it makes me feel

like she was texting winston during the break saying i'm a good human being i'm a good human being that's right all right so let's go to blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code

ramsey to get the best deal all right today's question comes from lindsay in georgia this is a big one i cannot wait to hear what you have to say about this drone i'm the sole earner mom of three and three step kids my income ranges from a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand we've paid off two hundred thousand dollars of our initial three hundred and eighty thousand dollars of debt in

the past three years amazing my husband is a stay-at-home dad and dude due to covid and thinks that we should be spending more money despite getting 200 a week i pay his child support and

his tuition he is a good roommate but a terrible husband he has withheld all affection in the past years and prioritizes netflix over me i can withhold spending can i withhold spending money until he agrees to work on our marriage we had counseling but he would not follow up i'm so exhausted lonely and depressed i resent feeling i am good enough to work 60 hours a week to support him but not good enough to be loved oh man

that's it's a lot there that's about a year's worth of work here there so to answer there's one question in here which is can i withhold spending money until he agrees to work on our marriage the answer is no no anybody who starts who gets into the business of withholding whether that's i'm withholding affection intimacy i'm withholding um information i've got secrets

right i'm withholding um fears

i'm withholding money that that's that's

like i said even a red flag that's like this giant neon sign right yeah this feels like resentment and this feels like this relationship it actually feels like this relationship is over and like you mentioned it we're roommates now he's got a good deal i got a good deal and i'm just exhausted lonely and the good deal on the roommate stuff is run out right um i don't think

this is a money question at all no so let me just let me go high level money and then i want you to dig into this because i i am curious all of your thoughts so just a couple of things lindsay and again this is all the symptom of a bigger problem so what i'm about to say is not going to solve your life here but even saying his child support

his tuition it it seems like you know i

i give him 200 a week you guys are not a

team like it is a his and her viewpoint

and a little bit of it sounds like

you're being his mom that's exactly right and nobody wants to be nobody wants to have

a romantic relationship with their mom right i wish there was another way to say that but he's being mothered right and

he's acting like a five-year-old who needs a mom right and so now you get in this weird dance because he needs to he needs to to buck up too like this isn't all your fault lindsay we're not picking on you but you do have to realize even the language you use shows where you guys are at in the marriage even just in the question which is fascinating okay so it becomes a dance right it becomes

i feel like she's always telling me what to do she's acting like my mom and then that shuts off all desire right which then leads to i'm just gonna retreat and hide in front of netflix and complain about not being able to go out with my friends which then he's acting like a five-year-old and then she has to right somebody has to say stop somebody's

gotta just as terry reel says you got to turn and stare the forest fire down you got to look at both of you've got stuff in your past that y'all got to deal with both of you got six kids in this house um you make great money there's a part of me that believes you think you're better than him because he you make that kind of money there's part of me that thinks

he feels like he's a loser because there's so much here and at the end of the day you said it best i'm so exhausted lonely and depressed rachel i've heard that those three words over and over and over this this season right if your partner will not go to counseling with you if your husband or wife girlfriend boyfriend won't go you're left with one option and that is to control what

you can control and that is to work on you so you've got to go right

if if you both had the flu that's

probably not a good if you both had strep throat and you go fill up both

prescriptions and he won't take his medicine that doesn't mean you don't take yours in fact that means you've got to take yours right because somebody's got to be well that's good yeah so spend the time the money the energy to get refilled it's not happening here my hope is my hope for this marriage is that when she starts working through the her challenges which are bigger than him bigger than

this mess that she will get some new skills and some new tools that will give her some clarity on her next path and hopefully will give her some clarity on how to engage him a little bit differently that he might be able to hear it she might have peace in her heart right she may be able to start acting outside of this marriage and um that sounded weird not act outside

the marriage but start here yeah start having like right you're just gonna start exercising again start taking care of yourself start having friends and community members go get re-engaged with a local church or local community groups or whatever that looks like and my hope is that your husband will see that and say i want that right blaming and criticizing and yelling never have solved a problem in a marriage right

and i love that control which you can control because i think that's one of the most frustrating things in life we talked about that you know even last hour but it's like yeah if you you yeah you don't have an option right you're not gonna just like absolutely drag him you can't physically drag him

and even if you did and set him in a room with a counselor he's not gonna do any good right he's not gonna he he he chooses to hear it or not so so being able to control what you can control but lindsay i'm so sorry this is a story for a lot of couples out there are in this and that's one thing i'm excited about our event tonight to hopefully bring a level of clarity and tools to people

um because it's tough but thanks lindsay thanks for your question all right let's go to sean in baton rouge louisiana

what's up sean how we doing hey guys how's it going uh doing okay yeah we're doing great

good good uh my question is uh my wife

and i are gonna be first time home buyers and

we're working with a credit uh company to to get our credit up to where we need to be to get approved for a loan and we had a deadline of april 1st and it just seems like the credit company is uh kind of dragging their feet a little bit and i'm wondering on paying certain debts off if there is a a faster way to go about getting our credit scores up to where

we need them to be how do we go about doing that sean are you are you working your way out of debt currently uh yes it's not much that it's under

eight thousand dollars okay and like have you been have you been working the plan have you been getting out of debt in the last you know 18 to 24 months paying off debt

uh within about the past 12 12 months okay so here's the deal with the credit score your credit score mathematically is made up on how you interact with debt so the fact that you guys have stopped going into debt and you're paying off debt your credit score is going to lower that's what's going to happen now it will be basically to the point that it's it's not a zero

but it gets to this point where it's they can't calculate it anymore after about 18 to 24 months which is about enough time that i want you guys not buying a house right now i want you to pay off that eight thousand dollars and get a fully funded emergency fund before you go and purchase a home so so my first rule of thumb sean is i don't think

you guys are in a place financially where i would advise to even be a homeowner i would continue to stay where you are um or rent for the time being

okay that's what we're doing now we've been running for four years yep and and i would i'm close man and it's frustrating i know it is but i would i because what happens is when you still have this eight thousand dollar debt over you you have no savings you go move into a home and 60 days in your heating and air brakes and you're like well what do

we do we have no money i guess we gotta go take on you know take out debt to repair that or if it's on a well if they're like right and and the well goes bad we gotta we gotta we gotta get water so we gotta take out that you know and so it ends up being a curse in your life versus a blessing

and i want a home because home ownership is so expensive and i know it's frustrating to rent i know it feels like it's just money going down the drain but it's not you guys are being wise you're being wise i promise stay in it until you're out of debt and you have that fully funded emergency fund so my wife and i bought a house back in august inspected great we even had some

exchange with the homeowners awesome and within the last four or five months new roof new driveway new right it just

happens right it just is never gonna be us it is gonna be us right so i love that so hard to rent we did it we did it we did it just hang in there you're so close you're so close sean do it the right way man and that way you can sleep with peace this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five we're taking your calls on your life and your money i'm john delonie joined here with rachel cruz let's go to silas in munich indiana

silas what's going on man how can i help

hey hla john thanks so much for taking my question you got it uh so i just got engaged back uh in this previous december nice congratulations hold on rachel says

you said that nice nah well i thought december a holiday engagement oh yeah it all went through my head was it a uh christmas engagement engagement yeah it was the day after christmas actually oh day after well played man she's nice that's where that came from she know it was coming uh she

kind of i mean we talked about it obviously but no she was very surprised but it was that when i did it was when i did it way to go so fun all right i'll leave you alone go for it so what's up man um well so like i said just got engaged and we're planning on getting married uh in the end of august okay uh so i'm

finishing up my last semester of my undergrad um and i i don't have

any debt so i myself am currently on baby step four um my fiance graduated last may

um so she's been working for a year and she did have a considerable amount of student debt and so she's been working to pay that off as quickly as possible um and and she's really been doing a great job i mean she's it's been amazing to me honestly how much she's paid off during that time even and we both have enough money saved up right now to to fully pay for pay cash for our wedding in august my question is uh once we got

engaged and we had set a wedding date i had stopped my own investing and started kind of setting that money aside in my savings so that once we get married i can take that chunk of cash as well as my fully funded emergency fund and put all that money towards the debt since at that point i'd be on baby step two with her am i am i thinking through that correctly am i doing the right thing or should i still be investing myself and and

be on baby step four right up until uh

we get married um i mean because you're

so young silas because of your age uh a few months is it going to make or break it honestly um on the investing side so honestly i think you did a great i think that's a great job the only word of caution for anyone else listening is you know you're you you go through the process of stopping your investing stopping your 401k all of that which takes paperwork

i mean it's a it's a process and then if something happens and the wedding doesn't go into effect then you have lost those months of investing but obviously you go into an engagement believing that this is it right wedding's gonna happen so so i'm sure you know i'm sure everything's gonna be fine so the fact that you paused it i'm totally great with and you're gonna have a pile of cash that emergency fund that

you do have and so you're exactly right you'll take all of that and you guys will together start back on baby step two and start working out so i'm curious how much debt does will she have in august and how much do you have saved up like how much of a debt yeah so she when she graduate graduated

she had probably around 45 000 and

um in august she'll probably be down to

somewhere between 15 and 20 000. awesome she killed it you're right yeah she's been doing great um and then i by that time and with working this summer after i graduate i'd say i could probably have around um

10 saved up maybe a little less it's awesome wow that i mean that's a huge huge head

start not many married couples get married and only have about five or ten thousand dollars of debt oh that's incredible you guys will knock it out you're both motivated i think it's just i think it's fantastic so i think you're doing exactly what you should be doing so great job silas one one trap to watch out for

yeah what is something that she is bringing to this relationship that you would say i'm so

thankful she's breaking this i'm gonna have to work on this for the next 2 5 10 15 20 years uh

i mean i think first of all she helps me my walk with christ she encourages me to be kind encourages me to love others well um she

really pushes me to to grow so that i

can lead our marriage well and so just from that

standpoint the encouragement she gives me encouragement she gives me to look to christ be dependent on him

i mean that's that's worth very cool so

sometimes when folks are are getting married one of you is sitting there debt-free with an emergency fund the other one's got debt it's easy to feel

like i'm giving all this stuff up or i'm

the one making these concessions i'm gonna go ahead and help bail us out so we can start on a firm footage she feels bad she comes in feeling guilty right um came in and immediately hooked a weight to us right right and so i want you to go in with that attitude i'm not saying you are i'm using you as an example for millions of couples across

the country you know that she's bringing things too right um to that are so extraordinary to this that you are going to learn and grow from and so it's letting her know all of the time we're all in this together right this is our show this is our dance we're doing this together you've got this i've got that we're going to be figuring out this is and that's for

the rest of our marriage right yep and um five years ten years me and sheila just had one uh that came up a few weeks ago

i've been with her almost a quarter of a century and i looked at her and said i don't think i know you anymore right they all keep coming up silas and so good for you make sure that she feels like she is the man she is the rock star in your world and that she's not coming into this marriage um dragging things down all right let's go to leah in orlando hey leah what's going where are

you there you are leah hey how are you doing i'm i'm right here thank you both i'm excited to be on the show and to get some advice i have kind of a mixed question

i am single and i'm 27 and

my plan was to buy a home in

october but life happens

and i met a wonderful man and he

is very special to me and um have a

great relationship it's been about a year and

so i'm stuck you know i've got the money saved i've got 20 down i've got the closing costs i've got

you know everything's going great and i'm just trying to decide whether or not i should continue with my

you know dream of buying a home or whether or not i should hold off and see what happens over the next year oh that's a good question have you guys had any discussions lee are you guys in the same city number one are you both in the same part of orlando we are about an hour apart from each other he bought a home about six months before

we met and so he does have a home himself okay have you guys had any of these discussions about where the relationship's going where if you if you have where you guys want to be dtr that's what the kids call it right have you all had the dtr um yes we we do

have you know we have had that discussion um i like i can't say that you know things are moving quickly we're very strong christians and and um we're

both in our you know um you know middle to late you know 20s and so we we do see a future together and um i could see us

getting married maybe in 20

22 2023 and so i

wouldn't think i would hope not any later than 2023.

okay well i mean gosh

whenever there's a big life change that is coming it's on the horizon it may not be set in stone but you know hey i'm going to shift careers as an example and i know i'm probably going to move closer to the city or man i want to do you know i want to be closer to family when i have kids and we want to start a family soon like you you kind of know it's not it's a little bit ambiguous but you know it's coming i probably would pause because i would love for you i love i would love a home to be at least a five-year gig for the most part when you go and buy a home um three to five years and so i would hate for yeah you to go through that buy and then you guys decide to sell and all that you could and it's not the end of the world yet by any means you're doing it by the book but if you do want to pause for six months and rent and kind of just see how it flushes out i i don't think that's a bad thing i always like to look at the other side of the risk which is what happens if you don't and really if you keep saving money and you wait six months or eight months and then you realize this isn't the right relationship then your down payment's 25 that's right you've saved up not you don't lost anything except eight or nine months and you're heartbroken and then you can go buy a house and so you're not off it's the risk on the other side feels greater to me so i'm with you rachel i'd wait hang in there hopefully he's the one hey hurry up dude make it happen quit waiting around 20 21.

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so

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this is the ramsey show triple eight eight two five five two two five it's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to michael in kansas city missouri michael what's going on [Music] um what are your previous callers

um i had student loan debt my wife was

able to graduate debt free and we're able to pay for our master's degrees cash um you know me every single

question is um you're just getting this money

hey michael hey michael i talked directly into your phone man okay there you go brother perfect okay um

i'm kind of opposite of the previous caller um i had student loan debt through from my undergrad my wife graduated debt-free we've paid for our master's degrees with cash but my question is i've got about nine thousand dollars left and through the stimulus money coming in

and having a child in 2020 with the child tax credit on our new tax return

do i wait and see what the president does or do i go ahead and pay it off pay it off paid off today pay it off

today yeah yep yeah if we

wait around to see what bill is going to

pass through what house in congress will be waiting a

long time and so to be able to control

which what you can control it's kind of like the theme i feel like of the show today uh and it's this don't put your future in your destiny in washington dc's hands so i would 1000 be paying it off michael it's for me it's it's a two-part thing number one um i got to see what rachel's talking about ringside i worked with some extraordinary i'm talking about brilliant high character wonderful young men

and women who were in law school who intentionally chose to go do public service work instead of going to big fancy firms where they were going to have big fancy salaries they chose to go do

this work because they wanted to serve their communities and because if they did that work it which is hard grueling work for a decade the government said we're going to come in and wipe those loans away and then when they got to year 8 and nine that went away and so they had sacrificed not only their direction in law school which if you know anything about law school it's just such a trajectory right it's hard to circle back and do something different x number of years down the road but man they had sacrificed five to

seven years of major earning potential because they were they were given this promise right and so there's that i think i think rachel's super wise here's the other thing there is something in i don't share this with everybody so i'm just going to tell you what's in my heart when i took out student loans and i had six figures man my wife and i had six degrees between us

we um and then i went and got another one that the school paid for but i i six degrees between us we had six figures in student loans it was hard i didn't realize on some of these loans i took out what i was signed all that stuff i was not an educated

consumer when it came to that but at the end of the day i signed my name to a piece of paper that said if you will help me get through college for this money i will pay you back and i have a

it's an it became an ethical issue for me that i was working good jobs i had money now this isn't everybody this i was in a fortunate position but i had jobs where i had this money here and if i waited on somebody to come in and pay for it which is my tax dollars anyway all of our tax dollars i struggled with that personally so you're in a situation where you're holding money in your hand right now

i think that in my estimation if you've got that money the right thing to do is to go ahead and pay that off now not everybody shares that ethical deal that's just me but that's just me talking to you michael person to person here but the broader conversation as rachel's talking about is yeah man you don't ever want to wait on those things to make their ways through washington yeah yeah

and depending on you know getting into the we don't have to go down this rabbit hole but the student loan program has

really screwed up a lot of people's lives now did they make the intentional decision to go get into those loans absolutely but the whole program is so frustrating to me on that level that i'm like i wish it just almost it just didn't even exist right that we like went the old school way of of what it looks like to go to school debt-free um so when

i hear the word relief there is a part of me that i'm like yeah i do i want relief for people yeah they had no idea what was they were signed up for yeah yeah like you you kind of like they just got screwed in it even though i know they signed their name to it but man so there is something that i'm like i don't know how

it would be done or what would be done or what that looks like because it probably you know we're not gonna get into the politics of it but i would love a level of relief for people right at some level whatever that looks like but i'm not gonna wait on washington just to deliver it so let's let's get to work because your point two if you got

it if you got it you have it yes yes you got it you got it um another thing is i've heard some of these some of these variants of the relief bill have different um things attached to them you're going to owe us this much community service you're going to owe us as much stuff which i love i love some skin in the game on that right

i think that's good but at the same time michael it goes back to an earlier caller we had or um somebody here in the lobby when you take something from somebody and they attach strings to that gift you're beholden to them right so man good for you i appreciate that question it's a good question i know that i can't tell you how many times we get that call people are all over

the country or wrestling with do i wait what do i do do i just stop paying on that because there's no interest now and some of it may go away later um i just want to say keep going if you can and i hope we can get this thing untangled it's just a mess seven ways to sunday um let's see here let's go to stephanie in bloomington indiana stephanie what's going on hi um

so i'm like 25 000

in debt okay um and i i it doesn't quite

sound like a lot to you guys compared to other people hey listen listen listen any amount any amount stephanie is oh there's folks at 5 000 might as well be a million bucks so 25 grand is 25 grand okay okay fair um so i

i want to start like the baby steps or whatever i've been listening to the show like every single day so i'm like okay it's starting to like click with me but i need a like a boost on how to like go um i have

like the 25 000 in debt and i make about

33 000 a year um

what do you do for a living i have like a um i work at a farm

yeah so um yeah i just don't know where

to start yeah i don't know i don't know how to call the right place it's a great question i don't know how to start a savings when i have credit cards and stuff to be paying off basically for sure well your first step

what you're going to want to do is to get on a really tight

budget stephanie so i want you to we're going to actually give you we'll give you a a membership to ramsey plus so kelly will pick up and give you that because this is our subscription that you can get in we have the baby steps tracker ramsey plus or everyday every dollar plus uh in there that's going to help you all the financial piece videos yes fpu's in

there so take all the courses all of that but every dollar the app is going to be your friend stephanie this is really the starting point because for the first time in your life you're saying hey i actually want to control my money versus my money controlling me hey i actually want to step into this change what i've been doing which is going to be hard stephanie

this is not going to be easy okay you're going to get to point so you have to say no to yourself you're going to get points to say oh i don't really want to do this there's going to be times it's going to be very very hard but the key here is understanding change is hard if you kept doing your normal thing that's comfortable you're going to keep getting

the exact same results that you've been getting and you don't want to so in order to make a change you're going to feel that that tension so just on the so when you when that happens you'd be like oh rachel rachel told me it's this is it this is the friction i'm feeling you're gonna feel it um so understand that emotionally but then yes doing the budget that's gonna be your best friend

and it's your income minus all of your expenses equals zero but that's going to include some giving and saving because your first goal after doing your budget is to get a thousand dollars and that's going to be your starter emergency fund so that means stephanie you're probably you're not going shopping you're not going on vacation you're not going to eat you're not doing any of that you're not spending any extra money you're getting you're doing everything

you can you're working extra so you're going to bump up that thirty three thousand dollars you're gonna work at night and you're gonna do whatever you can to bring in more money and cut expenses at the same time to get that thousand dollars and then you're going to start working your way out of debt so that 25 000 stephanie of debt what what is that uh what what kind of debt does that make up

so i have my car that's a little over 16 000

and i have a total of credit cards that's like 9.40 okay um and then i have a five thousand dollar loan out that i had gotten that was i thought was gonna get me out of my old debt but it just put me more in debt that's right girl don't depend on anyone else to get you out of debt you learn the hard way so i mean

i would even look at selling the car stephanie paying off that 5000 first and then moving up to that 9 400 by sacrificing that lifestyle so you can do it stephanie you can do it it feels like a lot but now you're on the front end of a fun adventure man it's gonna be good hey another hour in the books thanks to kelly thanks to james rachel thank

you everybody be kind to one another we'll be back soon this is the ramsay

show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am dr john dolone joined here by best selling author and good friend rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on your relationships on your money on that upcoming wedding on what to do in

the baby steps we're taking your calls on life and money triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and rachel we've said it every segment gotta say it one more time at least tonight is the big money and marriage event that's right you and i are going to have an adventure down in the tv studios here we're going to beam

it to many more thousands of families that we thought right all over the country tell them all about the event yes we're so excited about this you guys it's our money and marriage events on valentine's weekend that was on purpose the love in your marriage we're going to talk about tonight but oh really how what does it look like what does it look like to have a better marriage

and i think what's interesting is where we are right now in history for some people it's a struggle it's a struggle financially it's a struggle in their marriage like they are just having the worst year of their life right people have said uh and on the other extreme some people have said oh no my business has been booming financially we're doing great or my marriage no we've wanted we've wanted to spend more time together now we're not traveling for work

and we get to be home and it's what we really wanted like so it's all it's this extreme when it comes to these two subjects of money and marriage so i love that right now not only is it valentine's weekend but we're diving into it in this world of 2021 and the craziness that we went through in 2020 to really get no matter where you are on

the spectrum to get you to a place where you know each other deeper you love each other better all of it and working on the same page when it comes to your money so one of the things i've i've heard we get the the bell curve right we get the way outside here the long tail here the long tail here my marriage is better than it's ever ever been

we had to figure some stuff out this year and then with the politics and the election and coveted response all the stuff we've got folks over here going i don't know who you are right i have no idea who i married right yeah i kind of knew i just never asked and now we super know and then you've got millions of people in the middle rachel who man they've actually become really great co-workers they've become they've turned their home their work from home their home school from home into a well-oiled machine

they don't like it it's not optimal but they figured it out they become great roommates but man they've lost that desire right that spark like at the end of the night dude i'm going to bed like i've seen you all day we're good high five good night right and there's the other side of it right which is folks still figuring out the chaos of that home right

so wherever you happen to be tonight is for you we're giving you some actual real tools that you can put into practice tomorrow yes right that you can wake up tomorrow yeah and yeah we said it earlier but it's true yeah you're not gonna just sit there be bored the last thing i want right now dragged you to watch this for an hour and a half and

you thought man we could be watching yellowstone but nope here we are john rachel sitting on a chair lecturing us it's not gonna be like that at all it's gonna be super fun we have fun man so come hang out to us go to daveramsey.com to get your tickets uh dave ramsey.com shows get your tickets and we hope to see you there it's gonna be a good time

and if you're in ramsey plus remember it's really good for free so log in tonight and your amazon membership and you can stream it for free if you've been thinking about doing the ramsey plus free trial you can get online get the ramsey plus free trial and get this event tonight for free too so there's a bunch of ways to watch but we hope to see you

there this evening let's kick it out to christine in new zealand hey christine what's going on

uh good thanks how are you guys super what's going on new zealand christine what time is it there um

it's 10 10 uh a.m

okay very nice okay what's your question for us um we're currently on baby steps three but looking forward to our next step which potentially might be baby step 3b but we've got a unique situation in um where we work we live on a site and that is for

free um and we plan to have this job

for you know the next 10 to 15 years

so just wondering whether we do babysit

3b or move on to four

so you are yeah you're in a yeah that is a unique position because my so i kind of have i had two answers flashed through my head as you were speaking one of them is i mean yeah if you're going to be in that business for 10 years you don't have to pay for housing start investing start looking you know if your kids are going to get a higher education outside of high school what that looks like to save for start working that

and just be saving a ton during that time which is amazing but then the other part of me is like man but i would love for you guys to invest and and have real estate i mean i paid for home is a big part of people's overall financial plan and how they win

long term is having that that's such a big a big asset that i would hate for you guys to completely miss out on so for you guys is home ownership something that you really you want down the road eventually yeah yeah so i

guess our um we're quite young still i'm 32 my husband's 37 so when we potentially leave this job which we really love so that's why we're planning not to do anything anytime soon but we don't want to walk away

with um you know like we'd love to walk away with a pile of money that we've saved that we can put a huge down payment on something yes um and yeah obviously

um have a smaller mortgage at that point um because just with our job and where we live as well we don't really want to own something whilst we're in this job um because we don't really want to be you know landlords or anything like that and we can't really take time to get back to the house yeah for maintenance and stuff like that no absolutely yeah so

i think yeah i think you're in a great position just like you said i would i would i would definitely start investing and then on the side no hey we have a 10-year goal that we want to put 50 down on a home or 75 or a hundred percent down whatever it is and to look out and have that goal out there that you guys are working at together

and i think that that's i think that's perfect hey christine what's your job what where do y'all work

um i don't think you have them over there but we're motile managers so we provide accommodation and part of that is um we have our house attached to the reception so we're on site all the time so i had a the opportunity for the last

gosh 15 years really to work with

colleges and universities and one of my roles there was working with folks who lived on campus you know in the residence halls with these students these are extraordinary people the work you do it never ends it's 3 65

24 7. but they lived on campus and what i would tell you is i always had folks who had multi-year plans i'm going to do this for three to seven years and i'm gonna get this there's an accelerated aging that comes with living where you work right and so it it begins you have a ten

year plan and then two years in it's like what about a five year plan right it's just a lot to ask of yourself when there's something eventually where you want your own yard you want to have your own rules you don't want to have people knocking on your door at 3 4 in the morning or whatever just as a part of that gig okay so yeah i'm with

you there save up that money and man being able to put a hundred percent down on the house how cool yeah but your quality of life in that type of job is it's a it's a big big deal that's a great point so yeah stock that money away invest and then when you're ready to transition out whether it's in two years or 10 years and you'll be able to smile at

the mortgage office with what you're able to put down thanks for the call christine this is the ramsay show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease it was just such a relief to know that financial burden was going to be taken care of chm is the original and longest serving health cost sharing ministry get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash budget

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text it to three three seven eight

nine all right let's go to tommy in ventura california tommy what's up man how are we doing

hey rachel and john thanks for taking my call you got it brother what's going on john i'm a huge fan of yours and when you step down off that wagon i'm team gummy candy all the way with you hey listen i am in partnership with a navy seal right now and i have to text him every day how many days i am sober from

sugar otherwise i've got a hard hard workout it's hard right now man i am there are some things

oh yeah you're going to get me all thinking about gummy candy man you're getting me all screwed up so what's up brother uh so i'm 29 years

old and i own a wedding venue with my wife a few years a few years ago we got hit by the wildfires and we were forced to shut down until we rebuilt we're finishing up our permits right now we should be open next year and through our downtime we revamped our business plan to being solely focused on the venue to kind of being all-inclusive to include the venue rentals food all

the way down to wedding planning so we have a friend who is a part-time wedding planner in the past she has been vocal and clear that she wants to work for us one day in the past we were open to it but we know now that we're not going to employ her because she doesn't have the experience we want and in the past we've been burned from hiring friends

so we've just made a rule that we're not going to hire friends but we'll recommend them we have not told her our plans for expansion but we feel she should we should let her know what's happening in us hiring full-time planners and not here through the grapevine we want to be kind and compassionate to her but also preserve the friendship we know it's not going to be an easy conversation

and that there will be hurt feelings um but we want to still have that friendship and we want to go about in the wise way i want to see what you guys have to say man who are you dude every time

already pretty cool i think the internets make me just sad about the future i get to talk to a tommy from ventura man reminds me that there are so many extraordinary people out there um tommy here's the thing this is one of those conversations that um is like uh

it's gonna be hard and it's a blessing at the same time okay i would tell you the number one thing that you and your wife need to do going into it is have exactly what you're gonna say and it's gonna sound dorky but maybe even go over it with each other um write down what you want to say in which you communicate one of the things that people do

when they talk to loved ones in hard conversations is they start babbling and they start over communicating and over apologizing and over everything and then next thing you know she's either hired or you've gone one step too far it's because you're not accountable right you just say too much and so keep it short keep it like

i mean your heart you're gonna be a person of dignity you're gonna treat her like a person a dignity which is awesome the second thing i would do is really go into it with an open heart knowing you can't hold the outcome here if she chooses to hate you guys that's her choice not it's not as a result that y'all did the right thing for you and your family

and your business okay and anytime you have these vulnerable conversations these truth-telling conversations are never comfortable and this happens with marriages this happens with kids and their parents it happens with um employees it happens all the time the the if you got this skill of having hard conversations being short direct um you know the

the say it directly don't beat around the bush no we love you but we we're not going to be able to employ you at this time we've got this entire vision we need someone with a lot of experience you're not quite there yet we're so grateful we love you as a friend i know this is super hard for everybody we hope you'll still be our friend in

the in the future man we'll love to use you if we can but right now we're not going to bring you on and that's the end of the conversation okay do you guys recommend like an in-person just like informal like a breakfast lunch or what would you say is the best way to do that

kelly and james are laughing at me because i love having conversations over breakfast this is one it depends on the level of your friendship this is one that feels simple enough for me and

quick enough for me that i don't know that i would um it definitely definitely has to be in person right definitely to meet in person there but it could be over coffee it could be a broader conversation i don't think it needs to this one feels pretty pretty slow pretty quick unless this is somebody that you are super tight with your kids play together y'all been through

the ringer together y'all went to college together something like that where it's going to be i'm going to go over to your house and we're going to have a conversation i've made a few of those in my lifetime that's great just not over text don't do anything over text right like i thought yeah and

man i'm grateful for your heart tommy that's good rachel what do you think yeah for sure and i would say yeah i think you and your wife being on the same page i know conversations that winston and i have had to be in together we know we have a plan going in so no i don't think that's cheesy at all john i think that's very very wise

and such a great point that people babble that is me i will like go keep keep going keep going keep going oh my gosh is that too much and then all of a sudden i've hired him yeah right i've i i didn't hire him for this i think you're great yeah that's right and we're hiring a full-time nanny it's gonna be you right or you end up saying

you try to defend yourself so much you insult somebody that's right that's right that's right you don't treat him with respect and dignity and just just your whole spirit about this tommy is so good and um it's a good reminder for me to always

remember who's the listener right who's the who's the person receiving this information that's right right so good for you brother all right let's go to jorge in detroit michigan is it jorge or george brother

there's already how you guys doing all right all right um good man what's going on how can we help i'm saying say my call first of all um let's make some advice from you guys i listened to dave ramsey show when you guys ever once in a while so i know you guys are good solid advice um at the moment i just kind of feel trapped um i'm 29

i started a business a photography business about three years ago and the only reason i did that is because i was kicked out of high school in ninth grade and i never went back i never got another degrees or nothing to be honest and i knew i had this talent so i was just like why not help why not go ahead and pursue it you know so

i started doing that and i'm to the point where i'm doing pretty decent whether this is growing i would like it to be um and now i'm to a point where i have no degrees but i'm an entrepreneur i own my own business i've been in rooms with people and i work with people who have all these degrees from harvard just fell into just you name it doctors

and lawyers and everything i have no idea that i have no degrees and i'm going to keep it that way there you go good for you brother yeah the only thing i was questioning was this should i even consider maybe going back and getting that gd or getting any degree at all or should i just keep striving the way i'm doing it and just see what i can do without

it that's my question to you guys man rachel you mind if i hop in on this go go john you're the you're there so there's two a two-pronged answer to this okay tell me if i'm right or wrong here number one you're real real smart and

you probably lined up next to get if i went and found 25 guys i bet you would be confident that you would outwork them is that correct oh for sure for sure yeah and i bet you've got a standard of excellence that rides real high when you're dealing with people's photographs you're dealing in the business of people's memories and my guess is your attention to detail and excellence is high is that right

it is very correct yeah all right so when it comes to excellence perseverance hard work you've got those three things and you also have a demon in your soul about getting kicked out of school in ninth grade don't you i do and there's something about

you walking into that room where you know i am just everybody in this room put their pants on today i've got value just like everybody in this room but they told me back when i was 14 years old that i'm not good enough am i right so you pretty much got it

yeah all right so here's the thing you don't need to go to school to learn work ethic you don't need to go

to school brother to learn how to grind and talk to different people and learn all these soft social skills but if you're my best friend if you and i were just hanging out and having a drink on the back patio i would tell you i want you to take that 14 year old boy go get that ged for nobody else but for you nobody else

but for you and there's some some kind of closure some kind of healing that's going to come from that do you need it no but man would it launch you

yeah so mandy i want guys like you in my

community brother it's so good i say go get that ged

and if you hey if you don't you're still good just [Music]

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[Music]

this is the ramsey show i'm john deloney with my good friend rachel cruz and we're taking your calls on money relationships and life triple eight eight two five five two two five it's triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel we got a lot

going on here on the valentine's day extravaganzas huh

that's right valentine's day everyone sunday don't forget it and one of the

big things when it comes to your money to make progress is to be on the same page with your spouse you have to learn to work together as a team reach your goals as a team and really see yourself as one and to help to get on the same page we have gathered some of our best-selling books budgeting tools and bundles for couples and one big sale

you can save up to 83 on gifts that's going to help you reach your financial goals so this is the last week for the sale do not miss it and

don't miss again our money marriage live stream which is happening tonight you can still get tickets it's myself rachel cruz and dr john zalone will walk you through how to have a fun date night and have great conversations when it comes to your money so you can visit daveramsey.com backslash store to get your live stream tickets and the valentine's day's gifts to help you build a bright future with your spouse

and that sale ends february 14th so sunday so you've been having this these conversations with couples for years and years and years long before i was around

why is it so hard for couples to come

together around their money when when i i off-handedly mentioned something the other day about having this a joint checking account and you would have thought oh you know what i mean it was just like i was speaking like a different language and um it didn't occur to me that that was such a radical notion right so you've been talking to these couples why is that so hard for people to come together

i mean i think it's a couple of things i think ultimately we're told this lie out in our culture that yeah just because you're married you still need to be independent you still can't fully depend on your spouse you still you still need to to have your thing to make sure that you're okay in case something happens like there's there's all these kind of messages or that

you deserve to spend what you want you make more money so go and do it like there's like this division when it comes to money and it feels different i don't know tell me if i'm wrong but it feels different than even parenting yeah but it even feels different than like your relationship with your in-laws and like talking about boundaries like around holidays all that feels money still feels like

it can be this independent entity within marriage and people believe that it's a it's a tool so i know over the last 25 30 years as we've still got a long way to go as a country but as women have gained more economic independence it's shifted some conversations right yes like it's women are have more excess like more accessibility more ability to move in and out of um hard conversation hard situations

but it feels like when like when i was just thinking when you were saying this when when couples are you're married but you still need to make sure you're going to be okay yes that's going into a situation but leaving the a crack in the door right which we all know when you if you do that relationally right you're just setting it up for it not to hold right yeah

so so i think we have been told that you still you need to right you need to run on these separate tracks so what does that end up doing that ends up literally ruining marriages because you'll see that money like you said it's just a tool and so i talk about my new book but it's true like so many life problems and marriage problems masquerade themselves as money problems it's not really that

you have a budgeting problem with your spouse it's that you guys have no idea how to have empathy with each other you have no idea how to communicate like it's other issues it's coming out as money but it's really some other things going on within the marriage and it's like this ban it's like oh so so people live these separate lives because it's just easier we got

you like oh yeah it's just easier if he has his and i have mine and we will go 10 years just quote unquote not avoiding that big hard conversation because it's quote unquote easier right and then you end up in a your wreck's coming either way right you're gonna have to have a conversation at some point that's right so the avoidance of it people think that they're doing a great job

and like no no no and so that's hard to i think people are just opposites you know so like winston and i we from the beginning because we got married so young we have quote unquote you know been won

when it comes to our money we budget together all that but still to this day we just had this conversation it was two mornings ago about a big purchase i want to make and i'm like oh okay we have the money like can we just do it he's like man he's like i just don't sold the price tag babe he's like because it's an experience so it goes away

after we do it and he's like how many more things could we buy like we're just opposite in how we how we want to even use money at times right and it takes this it's a give and take of me hearing and understanding that him hearing and understanding me getting out of the place of of neediness that i have in the purchase his fear and what that really is right

so there's like all these root issues when you can get to that and have a good conversation then you can say hey we are different but we love each other well and serve each other well and there may be a give and take on certain months but but we make it work so tell me if this analogy works i had somebody or several people reach out and say

i would never have a joint checking account again i'm never going to be unified in money because one time

i got hurt real real bad right somebody

my previous girlfriend a previous spouse took advantage of me i'm never doing it again previous boyfriend took off with everything i have i'm never doing it again it's always gonna be separate tracks from here on out and the analogy that went into my head is

sometimes i've gone to a store and bought an appliance and i took it home and plugged it in and it worked for like a month and then it broke does that mean i should never have a refrigerator again right it doesn't it just means that i gotta go through a hard process to get that whole thing out box it back up take it all the way back get my money back

it doesn't mean that it's broken to suit because you got hurt one time that's right you got to grieve it and what makes me sad too is those people that make those absolute statements in their minds they go into another relationship setting themselves up and and that other person now is having

to reap the reap the terrible results of

something that they didn't have anything to do with so they're they're absolutes yeah their their their attempt to protect themselves is guaranteeing the next relationship isn't going to be successful yes and that they're having and that poor other spouse or significant other is paying the price for someone they didn't even know and they're like no and and then that and instead of saying hey i'm going to be vulnerable

and this is going to be hard and scary and i got burned back yes but i'm going to allow myself to open up because that's going to be a that's going to show trust yeah right within the marriage i don't know you're the psychologist well if you take if you take the word vulnerability a a synonym for it is exposed right yes

yes you are putting yourself in a position that somebody could hurt you and that is the unfortunately the only

way you can truly be loved is to be to offer yourself up that way yeah and if two people offer themselves up that way then you can come together if you hedge your bets in a relationship man so that's great wisdom i appreciate that i've been i've been caught off guard by it and um i love isn't it funny that's like the one thing if i post on social media

i can say cut up your credit cards i hate student loans like i can i can throw out these things but if i say join your checking accounts you would then come out right i ran over someone's dog yeah and i meant to and was like ha ha here i am in my car being this terrible person oh people get

it but i can hear that it's scary right that's right if you've been hurt if you've got no model for it that's right but i want people to get beneath that and say man if you're going to be with somebody if you're going to pledge i'm going to be with you forever that means you are all in all cards on the table you're not joining you're checking out with some dude

you met at the bar right right you're doing it with a sp with the person you're married to that you're committed to for life go all in you go into that marriage ceremony and say we are doing this for life that's what marriage is when you go all in you could lose right but that's that's a risk that's that's and that's the beauty of it i love

it all right let's go to andrew in toronto andrew what's going on man hey guys how are you thank you for taking my call it's awesome you bet man what's up uh so my question is that um my fiance

and i we sat down we spoke about baby steps we

have just entered the baby step number two very excited to you know get the snowball debt rolling but then now it just hit me that we have a wedding to now prepare for save for just i i kind of

got like a roadblock like what would be this what would we what sorry what would the steps be do we stop with this with this baby step number two save for the wedding somehow do both just kind of want to get your guys taken so let's do this lucky for you andrew we have a marriage and planning expert in rachel cruz right here and also a baby step expert all in one human being after the break we'll come back and then we will pick up from there you are listening to the ramsay show

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scripture of the day is second corinthians 1 5 for as we share abundantly in christ's sufferings so through christ we share abundantly comfort too abraham lincoln says be sure to put your feet in the right place then stand firm

good ol abraham lincoln all right so we're talking to andrew in toronto andrew you are getting married

you are planning for a wedding and you're in baby step two you're also trying to pay off debt all at the same time do i got that about right yes yes sir that's it okay andrew how much how much will you guys be making together combined income after you get married um 110 okay and how much debt will you

both have going into the marriage

uh that would be about probably sixty sixty thousand sixty thousand okay okay well so the rule with baby step two is when you have a big life event coming up you know maybe you're getting laid off you know you'll be losing a job maybe you are pregnant and expecting you have a wedding coming up there is a time and place to pause the baby steps and to save on

the side for this event that you know is coming up so that would be the same for the wedding um but for you guys i mean i and again

there's not a there's not a dollar amount specifically or a percentage that you guys need to save i number one don't want you going into debt for the wedding and then number two you guys have debt so knowing okay we're probably not going to have this crazy extraordinary massive expensive wedding

we're we're gonna do it as as well and as much as we can love it and it'd be inexpensive and being aware of the cost all of that because what that's going to do is it what you spend on the wedding and then what you don't spend on the wedding is going to affect how fast you guys pay off this debt so um so focusing yes i would i would

pause baby step two to answer your questions save up a little bit for the wedding making sure that that's covered and then you can press play on baby step two once you have that amount of money or after you guys get married but um but and john you can speak to this more and more but i'm like the wedding is wonderful right and it's every especially the the woman in the relationship we you love it's what you dream about it's your wedding day it's fantastic um but it's but it is a

day as wonderful and as celebratory it is it is a day and we just live in a culture that we go insane go insane for weddings so we're going to talk about this uh on a previous show and i'm glad you're here so let's do this okay so help me help me if i can remember help me figure this out number one i think that we as a culture

have stripped out all traditions

all ceremony all pageantry and i think that's to our detriment we have we go in

and we just mow down these wonderful but small older homes we knock down grandma's house and we look at it as how many tall and skinnies can we shove into this square footage right and we take this home that will be here for 300 years and we just knock it down because we can get some more roi in that way i think that's just a cultural thing why are we still doing weddings let's get rid of them so there's a part of me that is all about man weddings used to be a

big deal right a week long two weeks they were celebrations right there's that then the other side of it is people are spending 30 50 100 000

oh yeah plus on a day

a day and that sounds insane to me

right my my wedding was so great

so fun and i don't i know it wasn't that

right so walk me through that balance between the importance of the day versus man we've kind of lost our mind a

little bit on the circus and the ceremony of it all yeah i feel like i'm talking to both sides of my mouth right but no it's true but it's true it's a balance and i think that that's the key and i think knowing your motivation on why you want the kind of wedding you want is important okay right like i okay well i want the most beautiful centerpiece

i want all of this because i want the great pictures i want people to see it i want people to be impressed like what's your motivation to have these things or for it to look a certain way and i bet if you stripped it down to say okay let's just say nobody sees the wedding but you and your you and your fiance

so you know many more people than you know many more brides than than i do you hang out with them right let me say it this way hang out that sounded weird all the brides all the brides i hang out with you've had more conversations about wedding in your lifetime than i have how about that um how much of a ceremony how much of

the the extravagance of a wedding is so we can have those pictures

um probably a significant part

yeah and i think people because this is how i feel even 11 years after marriage you want people to have fun you want people to come to your wedding and be like that was a fun wedding and that's how i am i love that idea yeah man that was a fun great wedding so like that would be the pressure i put on myself today but yeah your pictures

i mean whether it's the albums or what you put online now like all of that i mean yeah i mean i feel like that that's a that's a big part of it so i don't have a solution i i just i like the conversation because i feel like i'm knowing your motive your heart your motivation on why what's your why and do you have the money and

then here's the other talking on both sides of our mouths even if you have the money do you do

is that good use of yourself is it necessary yeah you know where at the point is it like a so is it a is it a percentage of your net worth maybe that's i don't you know whatever it looks like but it's it's an interesting conversation because people can do it on these extremes right and it's a whole industry i mean they oh people are taking out loans to go get a photo booth

you know at the reception right now or you can just cram all your buddies in the backyard and have a great old time and at the same time yeah there's something about that legacy that big event that everybody comes to right right it's the centerpiece event so i don't have any good answers you all america i just was hoping rachel could help me and she cannot so all right

let's go to

corey in des moines iowa corey what's going on brother how can we help um so i uh with this cold temperatures

coming we got uh essentially laid off for a week and a half i'm sorry no it's it's

uh we're doing okay but uh

how do you plan for that in baby step two because the thousand dollar emergency fund i make uh quite a bit of money uh low 200s

and losing a month

or a week and a half of pay

how do you plan for that outside of

baby step one um

because we're getting pretty well intense on baby step two but now we were in this

crisis of sorts and

is that something that you balance the year and save some money throughout the year for this and how much would you save being gazelle intense uh corey do you know when the when those times that you won't be working and not getting a paycheck do you know ahead of time kind of when those are coming or do you know the day of how how much of a time frame do you have

so with the weather right now we found out last friday

that we would not work this week okay and then monday and tuesday it's going to be cold temperatures again so as of right now uh we won't be working until wednesday okay so you're is it when you don't work is it like a week at a time or do you foresee like a month you'll be out of work at any point um or is it usually short-term usually

it's it's short-term and i've been doing this career for 20 years and this is only the second time it's happened so it's rare yeah yeah but i was i was kind of unprepared and hopefully in a year i won't have to worry about it sure but um yeah i i would be great people too because because our goal for you especially on baby step two is that

you cover your four walls so you have your food your shelter utilities and transportation that you have that covered and i don't want you getting behind on debt either and so there's a level of your your um standard of living that you have having a budget no okay these are the bills that we absolutely have to pay and i'm not talking about clothing or miscellaneous or out to eat like

these are the things that absolutely have to be paid and if you know okay we're probably i i'm not gonna have enough time to save for those things because i get a day or two days notice i would be okay with you setting some money aside knowing that i'm in an industry that i won't get a paycheck for a week and knowing that that is a reality um that's okay cory to do

and to plan for that now that's not to say you know if you have a salary job out there as a accountant that's not me saying that okay you need to save more than a thousand dollars on baby step one because you have a predictable income but when you are in an industry like you said corey that there's a chance you won't have the money and that thousand dollars will not cover your bills putting some aside is okay corey how long have

you all been uh uh you know what keep the keep it going we just got ran up against the clock so hey we want to encourage you in your debt-free journey i want to thank james childs and kelly daniel for their superior production of today's show i think bobby the engineer rachel you got a future in this if you'll keep working hard it's going to be great john excited about tonight money

and marriage we'll see at the money marriage event dave ramsey.com to get your tickets thank you for joining us be kind to one another this has been the ramsey show

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you

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## 194. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 23, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money it's a free call at triple eight eight two five five two two five and some say

the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it jeff is with us in birmingham hey jeff how are you i'm doing well dave how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world

so my wife and i are currently on baby step three we have right at three months of expenses saved up uh we have a potential move on our hands

i've got a job opportunity potentially coming up in april and may and we also she has a 20 year old car

we're looking to replace and we just found out two weeks ago she is expecting our first child so hey yeah we're very excited

but we're just curious what is your advice on the next step should we begin uh baby step four yet should we hold off and start saving for those things what should we do wow

well i mean all three of them

are predictable events and so we should save in addition to an emergency fund because they're not really an emergency since they're predictable yeah yeah yeah absolutely how much do you think it would take you to move jeff is your job going to give you a moving allowance it potentially will but i

don't know that exact figure yet so that there is some from cash there that i might be able to get i think possibly up to about a thousand dollars in moving expenses sounds good i wouldn't worry about the car right now i heard you said you went to uh going ahead and replace that eventually i'm not worrying about the car um if i am you i am moving on to babysit four

and i am starting the the investment process but also at the same time like dave said i am going to be focusing on saving for the baby um and then finding out if i am going to get some moving expenses for my company if not then yes you may pause babysit before so you can go ahead and prepare to move because that is a priority that is a must yeah

when you add all three of these things together what's going to come out of pocket for the move and out of pocket for the baby in particular i'd want to make sure you have that yeah in addition to your emergency fund but before you move on to baby step four uh but buying the car i think you can probably save up for to do to do that

and that car will make it a little while it didn't suddenly become old it was already old three months ago before you got all these other pieces of information right so um you know you do want to you do want to again budget to pay cash for it so you don't end up with another stupid car payment right absolutely absolutely well i will tell you uh this is breaking news

we have not told anybody so i'll just let you know you're the first one to know that we're expecting our first child oh uh you should have told your parents before you told anthony yeah cause i'm gonna tell the whole world you know i'm just let you know right now just told 21 million people dude that's it well congratulations we are planning to do that this weekend just our schedules haven't allowed for

it oh no you you need to call them uh it's too late they've already heard it well congratulations we're so proud for you man that's awesome and yeah uh so babies first travel or move is second and car is third and depending on your household income how quickly you could pile up enough money to take care of those i might pause a little bit and let's just get ready for a known situation

the beautiful thing is is you're actually thinking about all this and doing it intentionally it's not happening to you you're happening to it yes sir and dave i don't have any kids but you do so you know when i had my first child is it safe to say about five to ten grand is a good extra cushion for a baby it depends depends on what your insurance is going to cover uh

you know what health insurance for this company will cover the labor and delivery uh and what's his deductible and does he have an hsa and you know what's out of pocket um if you're paying cash for it yeah you would need that okay you'd need 10k probably in today's world uh and

you know if you if you do not have insurance for labor and delivery but most places do nowadays yeah and uh most most policies do and so

uh you know what's your co-pay what's your deductible and you can calculate and get an estimate what your out of pocket is going to be not what the total cost is because that doesn't matter gotcha what matters is what you're gonna have to pay and then uh and you've got nine months to get ready for that apparently or eight and uh um

then we've got a you know we've got a thousand dollars will not move you right and so if you got a 5 000 move you got another 4 000 there right and so if you're making a hundred thousand dollars a year you can do this real quick if you're making fifty thousand dollars a year you're probably going to take a few months to get ready for all of

these things that are coming at you yeah that's what you're facing way to go man very cool sean is in pittsburgh hey sean how are you hi dave thank you so much for taking my call sure how can we help so four years ago my wife and i bought a house in colorado that turned out to be a big mistake because we couldn't afford it we bought too much house

and we ended up selling it two years later made about 30 grand profit off of it used it to sell to get rid of all the debt we had and we moved out to west virginia where i got a job as a youth pastor and now that job has kind of ended and we're looking at moving back to colorado and i was wanting to ask you if

it would be a good idea um our plan here we're thinking about moving in with my parents that live right next to uh where we work in colorado remotely right now we're thinking about moving in with my parents and living their rent free to save up a bunch of money for a little while and then buying a lot of land and then using that land as collateral to get a loan to build a house instead of buy one outright

because of the market out there the houses are so expensive we're like well we could probably save a bunch of money and have tons of equity in the house already if we just built one instead of buy one so sean let me ask you a couple of questions before dave jumps in here uh you said you're working remotely so are you no longer pastoring and are you doing you're doing something else yeah

so uh the the youth pastoring job i have here is um i feel like god's calling me on to

other things in colorado to move back there and so i put in my notice that i'll be leaving in july when my lease is up at our apartment here in west virginia and we're going to be moving back to colorado and what will you be doing and how much money will you all be making a year so um i will be pursuing a new job to

like make more income but right now what we will be making my wife and i together will be about um 60 to 65 a year

okay cool so here's my answer real quick before we go to our commercial break uh no i don't want you to go back in with your parents and i and i don't even want you to get a piece of land right now you need to go ahead and just get a solid foundation i would go rent an apartment and then follow the baby steps from there because

it sounds like you don't have three months in your emergency fund already correct yeah yeah so get an apartment live below your means and go in the head you said you paid off all your debt get your three to six months set aside then you and your wife can start looking at land down the road we don't need to move into your parents house skip over babysit three

they go buy a house you're going to be right back in the situation you are today so get an apartment get three months and you'll be straight yeah that's exactly right the um the idea of buying a piece of land and building a house and having a bunch of instant equity is not it's not going to work out that way when you finish building a house you're going to have almost in

it what you would have had had you bought a house that's what it costs to build a house and so you don't get like a 50 discount because you built from the ground up it doesn't work that way so no i think you i think anthony's right you need to get a little apartment and get your jobs and your careers solidified and then start gradually working your way back into homeownership at that point that's going to be your best bet

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and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash budget that's ch ministries.org backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host thanks for joining us on the ramsay show emily is with us in green bay wisconsin hi emily welcome to the show how can we help hi um so my husband and i got married in

november and we've been talking about having a baby not right this very second but sometime in the near future but all these numbers that you see everyone says it's so expensive like hundreds of thousands of dollars and i'm a planner so i'm just wondering how do we decide if we are financially prepared for a baby uh you

are yeah i was about to say if it's a hundred thousand dollars to have a baby emily i'm never having a baby

those numbers are um are

stretched uh and they really mostly come

into play if you get into a super large family but

if you have a couple of children the vast majority of your electric bill does not change your water bill changes a little but not that much your food bill will change some but not that much first couple years you got some formula and diapers and other things mandatory pediatrician bills that uh come at you and that kind of stuff uh we always joked and said it's mandatory it's federal law in

the first three years of a child's life to pay the pediatrician's porsche bill but they they don't really make that much money the pediatricians don't but it's still fun to mess with them but the um uh yeah so you're gonna have some

costs but the idea that you need to have 200 000 in the bank before you have a child is absolutely ludicrous no or will you realize over the scope of their life that you spent 200 000 on them no you won't even realize it because it's just like you know we get a little bit more macaroni we get a little bit more another six-pack of coca-cola or whatever i mean you just whatever it is that the family eats they're just gonna eat it and so you know if you're asking the

question out loud you probably can afford it okay yeah have a baby emily

we don't we do not have never in the history of ramsey solutions told someone to have a child or not have a child based on their financial situation yeah now obviously you want to use common sense and reasonableness and if you're completely broke and you make 21 000 a year don't have 16 children it's a problem you know that kind of thing that's common sense and reasonableness

but you know the typical middle class family doesn't have any trouble affording in air quotes of their children you're going to be just fine i agree i like that answer dave i'm proud of you on that answer well thanks i feel better about myself

but you know what dave i i have said this so tell me if i'm wrong for saying this i don't believe in the first six months to a year you should you should have a baby of your marriage it should be spent with y'all two getting to know each other and figuring out what you're going to do with your life yeah that's not a financial equation though that's just a space equation and

you know most couples do that yes um but

other couples are um really excited to have children i know uh and and that's okay too if you want to do that i i we enjoyed a couple years like you're talking about before denise came along and um and we've enjoyed every year since she came along as well so um and none of them were her fault one way or the other so that's you know that the first baby right but the um but

yeah anytime in any area of your life money relationships anything you can give yourself margin yeah that's a good thing margin's

never a bad thing it gives you a little it kind of smooths out the waves of life a little bit all right milton is in tampa florida hi milton how are you hi dave pleasure to speak with you in earthening this afternoon sure um my question so um i've been

contributing to my 401k for about 28 years now and just last year they opted to give us an option of a roth 401k so i took that option and i stopped

um contributing to the traditional 401k and started contributing to my roth ira good the match is the same on the raw good as it was on the traditional good so although although i currently have about a two million dollar net worth i figured anything i can put together tax that gross tax free would benefit me in the long run you are right but my but the question is can i roll over the roth portion of my 401k into my

roth ira yes

it will be a different it will be a technically a different account number but you can always roll over a your 401

k to your roth ira if you've left the company are you still working for the company yeah i'm going to be with the company for about another six to eight years you can't move a 401k while you still work there well no that's i was just trying to be uh trying to get ahead of the game here to see if if i would do that when i did leave oh yeah i guess i would do that yeah yes i would do that okay because i okay because i couldn't see the the difference it's one account number and it shows with my 401k and my statement right it isn't broken down as to roth and tradition right how old are you i'm 54.

how much is in the traditional portion of your 401k the bulk of it is i know how much which is about one point about 1.6 million okay i might begin to move

some of that into roth and pay the taxes on it now inside that 401k

okay because let's say you move 500 000 over and you pay the taxes on a hundred thousand bucks okay or whatever they come out something like that hundred hundred and a quarter will be your taxes before tax rates go up and apparently they're going to according to the president he says he's going to raise taxes tax rates and so uh on people that have the kind of money you've got

and so uh before that happens maybe you move some of it into roth and go ahead and pay the taxes on it and then let that additional 500k grow tax-free from this point forward

so so paying that i wouldn't have i

i don't have the hundred and a quarter i only have about 60 yeah okay well you don't need to do

it then you don't need to do it i was thinking maybe with that kind of net worth you had some cash outside of retirement but no you don't need to do that but whatever you can afford to move and pay the taxes with cash out of your pocket i would go ahead and begin to move it inside that 401 k 2 roth now when you retire whatever's roth you can move to a roth and it will be a different account number than your current roth ira but it could be in exactly the

same mutual funds as your current one

okay but rollovers just don't combine with existing is all technically but it's just a it's just a fine line okay i appreciate it

yeah so very cool man you've done great congratulations did you you didn't inherit any of this it's all 401k money so you became worth 2 million from the ground up starting with nothing way to go thank you very much that's impressive and 54 years old worth a couple million dollars that's exciting to me dave that's how it works i mean listen you can't stop saying you can't be a millionaire follow

the steps you'll get there he's not a millionaire he's a couple of millionaires that's probably bad grammar but you know i think we knew what you meant yeah he's a millionaire two times over right yes sir there you go all right a multi millionaire yes there we go i

like that's working good i really do i really do now let's say dave he did have the cash would you even say hey go ahead and move the whole 1.6 over to the roth if he had the cash it would be very hard to swallow okay emotionally but mathematically then from this point forward it would all grow tax-free yes that's going to work out for him and

because he's going to pay taxes at a higher tax rate later because the tax rates are probably going up yeah if this current president and congress have their way and i suspect they will because they all agree on everything right so um you know that it looks like taxes

on evil wealthy people are going up so then mathematically

it makes sense to do it now because you save yourself money if you have the funds to do it right now if you just take the money out of the ira i mean like reduce the 1.6 balance by enough to pay the taxes right then it's a wash mathematically because that portion you took out would have grown to enough to pay the taxes anyway yes so you would been okay yes

but you'll come out better off if you've got a 10-year period of time or more to roll if you can pay it out of your pocket in other words your baby steps seven yep you got extra money laying around he's a multi-millionaire now you don't need to fool with that if you're in baby steps two or three or four or five whatever and they're six you still mean pay off your house

first before you talk about that strategy yes but any money you can get out of taxable accounts if you're gonna become wealthy uh is gonna be a good idea because that the tax rates are in the political climate appear to be going up this is the dave ramsey show

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on the debt free stage in the lobby of

ramsey solutions justin and heather are with us hey guys

how are you hey dave hey anthony welcome where do you guys live we live right outside of memphis tennessee and collierville town oh yeah about three hours down the road though yeah that's right welcome to nashville and all the way over here to do your debt-free scream how much have you paid off just around four hundred and seven thousand dollars goodness how long did that take it took a little over eight years it took a while okay that works too and your range of income during that time we started off around 140 got up to

about 190 for a couple years and then we're back down around the 140 range again i went part time oh okay good for you well i'm guessing with this amount and how long it took it must be you paid off your house yes sir we did look at it weird people

that's right what is this what is this paid off house worth uh 360 370. wow

it's all yours yeah how old are you two weirdos uh i'm 34 and today's her 35th birthday

unbelievable yeah wow way to go happy birthday

very nice what better way to celebrate yeah man baby let's go i love it

man four hundred and seven thousand and eight years so tell us the story how did you get started on this and what happened well um i went to pharmacy school so that was a pretty big chunk of the money that was about seventy thousand dollars and he was working at one of your momentum churches during that time uh bellevue baptist church um and he's uh he's a pastor

so he was on staff there and um they went through your whole program yeah and he had actually read i think total money makeover before i was in a bookstore and saw your face on a book and i was like right i'm gonna get it on a whim and just read it in spite of the picture there you go yeah and uh read it in the morning just

i think i was around 24 or so at the time yeah and uh kind of went from there we've been leading fpu classes and we took our whole church through it last year yeah it was just super cool to see um how god used you guys in our lives but also in life for our church because we didn't know what 2020 was going to bring yeah and

we took our whole through church through it through 2019 and then boom and it really helped a lot of people yeah pastor gaines is a good man he's a good friend and we're at collierville first baptist now and they've gone through it as well oh wow um but anyway yeah i i just

remember having this distinct memory taking out loans in pharmacy school which i had some help from scholarships but not enough but i remember checking my loan balance and i think i did it like i checked it one day and then i checked it the next day and it had gone up like two or three hundred dollars in one day and i was like oh my gosh these have to die like as soon as i get out of school like this is just not going to work like i'm not going to keep letting this pile up on us so so how long you guys have been married 13 years almost wow yeah okay coming up on 13.

the gratitude journal her contentment journal and just trying to daily remind myself just to be satisfied with what i have and to be content in that and that kind of helped along her journey yeah but the house that was just a marathon man that just takes a while to go from the consumer debt to your your mortgage i mean consumer debt and i'm pretty sure you did your savings account three to six months yes

but then what why like why did you want to attack the mortgage i know that's babysit six but you're young you're 30 you're in your 30s and your 20s like yeah why what was the thought process behind that well one of the things when you go through fpu you go you go through it with people in different life stages and i saw and heard so many stories of empty nesters who would say

i wish i had this in my 20s and 30s yeah and they were speaking wisdom into our life of saying if you do this now you'll be more free later and that's kind of how i viewed it as not holding my future kind of in chains but being being

fiscally responsible so that in the future i could do whatever the lord calls me to and i'm not bounded by debt and so that's kind of helped us over the last few months as we've been out of debt is we can now give more to things that we're passionate about and uh and when a water line busts in

your house you're not freaking out because you know you've prepared for it so it's so good and you can go part time with a house full of kiddos yeah that's yes that's been huge that's been huge big lifestyle change and it's because we've worked the program honestly you've led fpu you've paid off your home at 34 years old you've done it all you're absolute heroes tell people what the key to getting out of debt is uh again i would say being content um

and then just sticking with the budget and working the plan it's kind of a bad plan is better than no plan at all but this is a good plan and i always tell people you know when it comes to fpu i'm not a paid salesman i'm a satisfied customer and i just tell people you know just work it and give it time and you know you say it's uh we're we're

in the crock pot business not the microwave business and it's tough and i would just say like if there's anyone out there who maybe you're beginning this kind of whole process i just want to encourage you because um it's going to take some time and it's hard but it's worth it and having been on the tail end of this just encourage people that it's worth the work you're going to be free

and you're going to be able to give like never before and you're gonna have freedom and it's it's great so so over the eight years what was the hardest thing that you two had to get over i don't know

um well you never want to get in the comparison game of comparing yourself to other people yeah because even when she was in pharmacy school uh there were people buying like mercedes and just taking out more and more loans and we're just thinking you are crazy for doing this and uh and to say you know but what i've seen is what's helped us anthony is god has just been

so faithful throughout the whole time and he's provided for all of our needs and i just i'm i'm a believer that when we're faithful to him he's faithful to us and you reap what you sow and so part of it is just sticking with the plan and um putting your big boy pants on and just getting after it and it works it works you guys were obviously very unified in

the process too yeah i mean i'm the spender so there were definitely some times when i was not happy about not being able to do something but um now you can do anything yeah within reason but yes

you got no freaking house family i'm just saying wow that's so impressive you guys are amazing very very well done and you brought the kiddos with you to do the debt-free screen what are their names and ages uh madeleine is our first she's

seven and anna kate is five mm-hmm and little

truman is a coveted baby he's one all right

go truman matching shirt with dad that's

right baby that's awesome man well done well we got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires that's definitely the next chapter in your story thank you for leading financial peace through your church and thank you for doing this stuff absolutely i'm so proud of you guys very very well done all right anna cape madeleine and truman are you ready to scream say yes you're ready are you ready all right we're gonna count it down justin and heather from memphis tennessee 407 000 paid off in eight years making

140 to 190 to 140 house and everything 34 years old

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're dead

[Applause] fabulous oh man that's perfect

that that young family and they don't have a house payment that's going to be so much money in 20 years listen making that kind of income these are definitely millionaires within the next few years yeah and they know how to control it and they've completely reformed yeah their brains renewed their minds as the bible says yes be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of your mind

and that's what they did it's absolutely incredible very very very well done what an inspiration and those little kids man their lives are changed forever oh for sure and their kids yeah that's dead three kids yeah i mean this is uh incredible they're gonna be in such a completely different place stuff we teach works guys it works it's that simple yeah wow

this is the ramsey show

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eight nine quinn is with us in denver hi

quinn how are you i'm doing good how are you doing dave better than i deserve what's up hey so i'm in baby step two

i still owe 80 on my student loans i started at 120 i paid off 40 last year making 50.

good for you uh and i have some medical

issues um i had like five surgeries uh when i was going through high school in college in my left knee and i no longer have cartilage in my left knee and i need to get these very expensive shots they're about you know a thousand dollars a shot one one a week for three weeks every nine to 14 months and i was curious how do i plan that into my budget where do i do the second option my doctor is giving me which is a ten thousand dollar stim what is it called the stem cell

treatment um how do i plan that into

into my budget um so that i can uh

not be in as much pain as i am walking around wow i'm sorry that's awful what do you make you said 50. you said 50. yeah i make i make around 50. i make a lot of overtime so i made like 58 in overtime last year so what do you do i'm an engineering project coordinator for uh med device and drug r d company

so you're around this stuff all day long and then you need some of it huh

okay um well i mean

it it sounds i don't know what the uh uh

probability of the stem cell is is that a hundred percent does that work all the time or is it just a hope it's it's a it's a uh they say it's not fully approved by the insurances yet because they're still doing their their trials so but it but the science looks good when i looked at it because because i know how to read those papers yeah but i'm saying

if you do this is it a 98 chance you're going to be okay and never have to do like a 70-ish percent chance which is very high yeah and in my my understanding of the world okay all right i don't know anything about this i'm just trying to gauge three thousand dollar shots and pain for three thousand dollar shots yeah three three you know three one thousand dollar shots

and pain regularly versus ten well you break even after three rounds of that right yeah and minus the pain and i'm pretty

much a coward so i don't like pain um so i'm trying to figure out a way to do that but you've got 80 000 of student loan debt left left

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so if you make it one more year without doing this procedure that's going to cost you three thousand dollars right and it will move further out of the

clinicals possibly to become ensure insurance covered right possibly

but you know these things take you know five to ten years yeah unless unless it's a coveted vaccine then it takes about 10 minutes [Laughter] um yeah it's interesting how approvals

change on things but the uh yeah i mean it could it very well it could be um is it serious pain uh yeah yeah

yeah it's rather serious uh you know i don't want to walk on it even you know minor surgeries whatever somebody else okay okay it's all pain yeah yeah i'm trying

to think what i would do in your shoes knowing that i'm a complete coward and you're hurting so i'm trying to empathize i've never had this exact thing obviously but um if i'm in that much pain sharon did do the stem cell thing and it did work but it was a much smaller situation than you've got

um so i i don't know

um if i woke up in your shoes

i probably would stop everything and come up with the 10 grand you would yeah oh yeah the only other thing that comes into my mind is it is more

than interesting to me that you are in that in and around that business and i wonder

if one of your

uh leaders with your current company

knows the leaders with the company that provide the other proceed provide the other stuff and can't get you some help on the pricing no i already went down that path i tried some other things that that my my boss knew about that were um in development and those those were pretty okay but you know they don't last yeah but i'm just saying the uh i guess the is

it the actual injection that is so expensive or just the procedure itself the the three shot injection no no no no the the stem cell the i think it's the

well as this is explained to me they take a sample out of my knee and then they grow it in a lab in boston and then they inject it back into my knee after it's grown and that all comes around ten thousand dollars yeah and i'm just saying the company that does all of that should have a friend working inside your company that's what i'm hoping and i'm just going to continue to poke around on that

because it's a ten thousand dollar discussion and if they knock half off or something because you you push around tried to find one degree of separation here one of your bosses knows one of the bosses over there probably yeah that's what i'm saying and just go hey do my guy do my guy a favor here man and um take care of my guy in the worst case scenario i've made those phone calls for people here not not medical calls

but in other situations where i go hey man you got that over there would you take care of my dude yeah i'll take care of him then i owe you one right and that's uh uh if i could figure that out it would help speed this up the cheaper this gets the faster i would do it you know and so the the uh um but yeah i'm taking care of your knee man

i mean you need to get this done and um i don't like the 70 probability but the rest of it i'm gonna i'm gonna give it a try if i'm in your shot in your situation what do you think no i'm saying the same thing dave and even right now you had a knee done never never yeah never but uh

i imagine hogan has i'm pretty sure he has especially playing football and stuff like that yeah yeah but while he's looking at that i'm i'm starting to save for the worst case scenario if i got to pay the full ten thousand dollars yeah i'm gonna build the ten as fast as i can during that time i'm gonna work every phone and every connection i can to try to get a better deal yeah uh which gets

the procedure done that much quicker quicker yeah that's that's interesting very interesting discussion sorry are you going through that man yeah really that's just open phones at triple eight eight two five five

misty uh i'm sorry brandon

says i just started following your baby steps the largest debt i have is my student loan is a hundred thousand dollars should i move this to baby step six since i do not have a home no no what what huh i'm confused

uh if you say student loans right yeah no i'm sorry that threw me why would you ask well because it's a huge loan it's sometimes bigger than a house loan and so some people often ask us you know i want to move it to baby step six just because it's big no no it's it's baby step two you guys yeah well you're not getting rid of sally mae even if she's a big yes big sally may yes she's a big

the only way it's going to go away is if you attack it not if you put it off right and so um we don't move the babe we don't move the student loans to another baby step because of that it's i've had calls where people said i got 200 000 student loans i owe 60 000 on my house

you know and they want to move it and i'm just like no still don't do it you still got to attack it and get rid of it yep that's the thing fine stuff good hour anthony yes

thanks james childs and kelly in the booth i'm dave ramsey your host this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today thank you for joining us america we're so glad you're here the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's

triple eight eight two five five two two five

sarah is with us in lexington kentucky

hi sarah welcome to the day to the ramsey show how can we help hi dave and anthony i have a little question i'm dead mainly my husband are debt-free we've been debt-free for three years i took a traumatic fall in 2019 and broke my humors down the flight of stairs and damaged my knee i've had one knee surgery and i'm getting ready to have another one the my husband's gone four nights a week

and i don't sleep those four nights because all my bedrooms are upstairs so we're kind of like in a dilemma and he didn't even want to be on dave ramsey nine years ago but now he's turned into a frugal i think we should sell the house since we have no bedrooms downstairs and buy another house in the next over subdivision our house will price at 159 and it's about

the highest one in the on the two streets and we could add on to it for like 30 000 but then i don't think we could ever get our money back out of it the houses in the next subdivision are running about 179

but we'll probably only clear like 145

on our house now i have we have 550 000 in 401k

and we have our emergency fund and we have 16 thousand dollars because i've been trying to save to you know put on another house

sixteen thousand that we could put on the house but we'll still be a little bit short what'd you say your household income is our household income during the debt free was eighty-four but since i failed it's down to 65 because in the last two since 2019 i've only worked like four months each year because i failed and they tried to naturally heal then they did surgery the next year then now i've had the knee surgery i'm gonna have to have another one so i'm only working part-time okay

and so you're talking about a a one-level house i'm talking about a one-level house and i need to stay in my area because i'm like the provider for my mother who has cancer so i need to stay within like a five mile radius because you know i'm over there every day so i you know i probably could find something cheaper farther away but then when she calls me

the other night you know it's going to take me longer to get to her yeah like if you move ten miles away it would take you five minutes more more yeah well

she's kind of panicky on that stuff honestly the house is well she gets panicky i get panicky you're going back into debt too yeah well i think we could have it

paid off in a year well then save it up yeah

and just sleep on the couch for the next year because i don't sleep upstairs when he's not there i i literally i what happened once i got up in the middle of the night i made the wrong turn i was disoriented and i went down the plot of stairs and i know that that's emotional i'm not i'm not judging your psychological that's not always yeah i'm saying what would i do if i were your husband if i were you

in this situation i completely agree

with your desire to move yes and get into a one level i've got no issue with that if you're within one year of doing that with cash then do it with cash or move five minutes further away and do it with cash and deal with a ten minute drive to mama instead of a five-minute drive absolutely okay now the other thing is they make those stair climber things that

you sit in they're fifteen thousand but i don't think you ever get our money back out of that no yeah sarah don't do it i mean i i think you're trying to come up with all kind of excuses listen to what dave said you're able to climb the stairs yeah you just don't want to right well yeah i mean i'm able but you know i've i've never had one knee surgery

you know it's like i'm not arguing with you you know and let me just tell you how weird i am okay uh if it's this important to you i i would move the living room furniture into the garage and move the bedroom into your living room i'm so serious well we are from kentucky

well i'm from tennessee so i think we got this figured out we got to figure it out it's just for a short time and if it's that big a deal for you to get something that's comfortable i might rearrange something there yeah on that first level seriously i'd consider that as a temporary measure it's not it's not a five-year thing it's like we're gonna go camping for four months

and five months until we get this money saved up but i think you can do this with cash if you're careful or if you'll just make slightly different decisions sarah would you what you really want to do is when you're facing something like this and you've got several very valid things a 101 bedroom

i mean i want a one level i and it's a

reasonable request don't you think absolutely then but don't put so many

other constraints on it that you can't make your solution true yes like i have to be five minutes from mom instead of ten minutes from mom oh no see now that one's silly yeah that one's silly she could be 15 minutes away yeah and and still and go move today right or sleep in the living room for a year yep uh or move your bedroom to the living room for a year um or go into debt

and pay it off in a year but i i i don't think that's the way i would do that in this situation me i'm telling my wife we're going to move away 15 minutes so we can give you what you want right now i'll tell you what the other thing you could do uh you could sell the house today absolutely rent it and rent a one bedroom yep for a year

yep yeah that's even a better plan

except for the move two times part which i'd rather have a root canal but the because the move two times things awful but uh but yeah that that solves the problem very uh except for the two moves yeah but they don't have to move in one year dave they can stay there for you know two three years and pile up a bunch of cash exactly even better one day exactly that one level

i keep doing one bedroom one level one level one level yeah it could be a one level one bedroom you know no i mean well for rent for rent yeah just go that's that might be your answer i like that answer dave and uh you can move just about anywhere if you're renting for a short period of time and she can save within five minutes yeah yeah that might work that might work that's

another idea but i think you're so close if it was going to be five years to solve the problem i might solve it differently yes but because it's one year to solve the problem i'm going to figure out a way to push through that right and avoid the debt your husband doesn't want to go back into his house and everything's paid off i can empathize with that yeah

and also empathize with you hurting and you don't want to make you know you don't want to make a wrong turn in the middle of the night and start this pro healing process over again i have no issue with that at all either hey folks how do money conversations go with your spouse do they end in a battle or are they not happening at all guys you can get on

the same page with money it starts with both of you committing to a budget every month with a membership to ramsey plus you and your spouse get our premium budgeting tool every dollar connects to your bank and both your phones so everybody knows what's going on everybody's on the same page we're working and making changes together and uh with access ramsey

with access to ramsey plus courses like budgeting that actually works you'll learn exactly how to make a budget you can get a free trial to ramsey plus to to start your free trial text the word trial to 33789 text trial

to 33 789 and you can get a free trial ramsey plus it includes financial peace university the baby steps tracker and of course the premium version of every dollar lots of other goodies in there as well smart tax is free right now get your taxes done free yeah wow

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anthony o'neill ramsey personality is my co-host today our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100

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get the best possible deal today's question comes from terry in louisiana she says my father recently passed away and my mother received 320 000 in life insurance

she is debt free and says she doesn't need the money since she has enough assets to live a comfortable life i have a hundred and twenty thousand 000 in student loans that that she wants to pay off for me because she feels like this is what my dad would want i want i have started following your baby steps and have been gazelle intense for the last six months attacking my debt this would get me very close to being debt free i want to honor my father and never be in debt i am feeling torn about

this do i accept the gift yes

i really do i mean i i would definitely have a conversation with mom and make sure she doesn't feel that you're trying to force her into it uh but i agree if it was my daughter um

and i passed away and left this i would definitely want the money to help my family proceed forward in life and paying off the debt will be a good steward in my opinion of that as long as your mom is taken care of yeah that's what i'm

concerned about the reason i'm concerned about it is you didn't tell us that she had how much money she's got you just said she has enough to live a comfortable life right and um some moms a comfortable

life is a can of soup a day that's good if her daughter gets all the money and she barely makes it by because she's broke yeah good point and she calls that a comfortable life but she took care of her daughter yeah uh so i don't know what a comfortable life in air quotes means if it means she's got a

million dollars in a 401k and this is an extra 320 on top of that i'll go with that yeah if it means she can live off of her social security and be struggling no at 1200 bucks a month right and calls that comfortable so you can have this money yeah and wrong answer right no so i i

i need a better definition of comfortable life but uh if she if she you know

has enough assets to live account so she has some assets so it's not social security but you know what is it what's really there that's what i want to know yeah i agree and uh but you know the more money mom has the more i go with your answer yes yeah i would definitely accept it now the other piece of this is you cannot give someone

that much money without a gift tax being

imposed unless you do it properly

and so you need to see your mom needs to

see a tax attorney or a tax professional to help

her file what's called the unified estate

tax credit exemption

and she needs to use up some of her estate to avoid paying taxes on this because if she gives you more than fifteen thousand dollars she's

going to be taxed at 55 percent and so

do not just write somebody a check in your family for 120 000 the irs comes in and audits you you're going to get hammered and so you need to have some professional tax guidance and it's a very simple form and it's called the unified estate tax credit and you need to do that to avoid the gift tax if you guys go forward with this and we only go forward with this if mom's definition of comfortable is really comfortable yeah

really really really comfortable yeah tracy is in tacoma washington hi tracy welcome to the ramsay show hi dave long time listener and fan thanks for my call for taking my call sure how can we help alrighty so my husband and i owe 160 000 on our house and we currently have a hundred thousand dollars cash so we thought about refinancing but our previous loan person said it's best to do a credit union loan as rates would be lower

and you don't have to pay closing there will only be like a 60 000 loan they're right so i was wondering what you would do they gave me like a ton of different options it's pretty overwhelming and just as a side note my husband has ms so we have you know our six month fund and everything like that so we're just trying to get our monthly payments as low as possible in case something was to happen with his diagnosis your husband has what uh multiple sclerosis oh oh ms okay yes

i didn't hear you how

long has he had that um about a year okay all right and what's your household income um well it's about 55 000

after taxes my husband where did the hundred thousand come from um just random family gifts and then we saved uh a lot you've done well done very well and you're 100 debt free except your home correct your loan officer is giving you excellent advice absolutely okay good let me walk you through a couple of things to watch for okay when a credit union or a local bank makes a loan like

this it's a loan they are going to keep at the bank they're not making it by underwriting guidelines of fannie mae or fha it's called a portfolio loan they're going to keep it in their portfolio okay so it's kind of like a home equity loan in a sense they're going to keep it there they're going to keep it there at the bank okay so as long as

you know that then that what that tells you is that whatever rules they want to make up

they can do so this idea that somehow

they have to conform to some other guidelines is a bunch of crap and so here's what you are going to make them do what's this house worth um it's worth 325. okay so a 60 000

loan on a 325 000 house is what's known

as a no freaking brainer right unless you've got horrible credit or you're in bankruptcy okay so what you are going to demand is three things okay one is no closing costs

of any kind under any circumstances

okay they need to put they need to do this to get this loan two is a fixed rate

okay and three is

a fixed term

uh do you want a 10-year or a 15-year probably a 10 will be fine in this case

but you do not get a traditional home equity loan where the rate floats and thereby the length of time that

you're in the loan floats and some of those even have balloons or calls after three years or five years okay you don't want any of that you want a 10-year loan that pays off

in 10 years that's called a fully amortizing loan at a set rate with no closing costs

there is a local bank or credit union that will be happy to make you that loan okay cool

you're going to have to push back though because they don't always use their brains at the bank you know that i do i'm a mom so i'm used to push back so i think i'll say okay they're going to go now you need to get a home equity loan and this is our home equity loan product and i'm going i don't care what your home equity loan product is

if you want this loan it's going to be these three things okay perfect well thank you so much steve thank you so much anthony you guys have a great day you too you too great job by that loan officer telling him that's a good loan officer told him not to make a loan with him dave i was shocked that's good that's good integrity i like that because it's a 60 000 home loan with a

traditional mortgage is super expensive right and the mortgage companies don't want to screw with it and they they're going to run the rate up number one if they do screw with it because they're so small and they're probably going to hit you with a bunch of extra side fees uh that don't need to happen so when you're making a ver a small loan like that under 75 000

uh especially where there's a bunch of equity yeah always go to your local credit union always go to your local bank and always remember those three things i told you no closing costs fixed rate fully amortizing fixed term i've seen some credit unions dave do it uh below a hundred thousand oh they will they'll do it alone yeah yeah they'll do it they'll do a loan over over over 75 000 but when you get 75 000

and under a traditional fha or fannie mae loan becomes unwieldy it's very expensive got you and most of the most of the mortgage companies don't want to screw with that yeah but the credit unions will and the you know local bank will especially in a situation like this so very very well done good good job of that loan officer that's good stuff this is the ramsey show

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my

co-host number one best-selling author the phone number here at the ramsey show is triple eight eight two five five two

kevin is with us in san diego hi kevin how are you good dave how are you better than i deserve how can we help so i anyways i appreciate you guys for taking my call um a little back story i just recently separated from the military i did about 10 years currently i'm a full-time student utilizing the post-911 gi bill

i also just recently took a government contracting position full time in san diego which pays about 60 000

annually good my wife is a uh registered

nurse but uh we just had a baby back in january so she's a stay-at-home mom for now anyways um

my question is regarding uh equity in our mortgage uh we owe about 300 000 uh

and our house is currently worth about 450. uh my wife and i are almost debt-free

we've paid off almost 60 thousand dollars of debt but my question is would it be smart to take out about 20 or 30 000 in equity out of our mortgage to pay off the rest of the debt and possibly upgrade some things in the home no

it wouldn't be that's not a wise move at all um again and you set the numbers i don't miss your hearing correctly what's your household income right now 60 60 all together okay cool and you said you have about twenty thousand dollars in debt

uh about yeah about that yeah yeah

yeah i'm not touching the home loan i'm not the home law i'm not touching equity at all what i'm doing is i'm trying to come up with a game plan and knock out this 20 000 cash so kevin thank you for your service

um your wife is at home with a new baby and she's standing around inside that house looking and seeing everything that needs to be fixed and that's what started that's what started this conversation it did i came home to a list of things

like

i was afraid i read that right oh my

gosh and so uh yeah the answer is no babe

when you are able to get back to work we'll be able to do these this list of things after we've gotten out of debt and have our emergency fund in place yeah so uh you cannot borrow your way

into abundance yeah i i understand

um i do receive a housing allowance through the 911 the post-911 gi bill you get that whether you do these repairs or not

yeah so instead of taking out would it

be smart just to use that money now it'd be smart to use that money to get out of debt like every other piece of money you've got yeah because you're in baby step two and you're knocking the debt out you got a brand new baby we're trying to get out of debt how much is your housing allowance kevin

um the housing allowance is about three thousand dollars but you get that no matter what you you can do with it what you want to do with it come on man so now we're at 78.

that's what i'm saying in household income right yeah now you're out of nowhere i'm sorry 36 did you say three thousand three thousand dollars a month right kevin yeah three thousand uh of

housing allowance oh i'm sorry now we're at 96 000 household income now we're out of debt in five months yeah and then you save up and do the repairs what's the uh what's the cost on the repairs going to be

um

rough numbers probably around ten thousand dollars okay so here's the thing you have a ninety six thousand 000 income you need 30 000 you should be done with both of these in one year without borrowing a dime okay

okay so um now

what we've got to do is walk through hit this what happens is uh the p that

very few people uh look at

a situation like this and and and they're really doing a bunch of math and they're really thinking about how it's going to turn out 15 years from now they're more thinking about the here and now yes and that's what drives you to ask a question like do i borrow money to fix up a house while i'm still in debt right and answer to all of it of course is no and the reason we answered the question we did is what helps kevin and his wife and new baby be in the best place

10 years from today not 10 days from

today not 10 months from today 10 years from today what is best for you and your family what is going to put you in the most money situation and that is to have avoided the debt and paid cash for the repairs and have paid off your existing debts yes and that's going to continue to free money up and continue to give you options and continue to do

these things and it's just a normal thing for her to be sitting at home you know she's you know she's dealing with a human that can't talk back to her all day and so um that is highly needy

and uh and so it's in human nature to walk around and go well we need to paint that we need to fix that and didn't even notice it before come on now and that's just normal there's nothing wrong she didn't do anything wrong but that's shorter term thinking and we need to think what's best for this child long term 10 years 20 years out yes sir yes and if you put it through that paradigm that's how anthony's quick answer as soon as you ask a question was no no with no explanation

zero not a chance no no

all right elise is with us in buffalo

new york hi elise how are you better than i deserve how are y'all just the same how can i help yes so um

my question is me and my husband are on baby step two right now and um we're looking uh to be

finished in october and then you know we'll do baby step three and then we'll start interviewing some smartvestor pros and i've read like um chris hogan's retirement inspired and everyday millionaire both um awesome books but one of the things i guess i'm thinking is kind of for us like

let's if we're about 25 and so we're wanting to

like learn from our smart investor pro but i mean wouldn't if we're the type of people who like we're not gonna pull out you know our money from retirement it's just gonna sit there from like you know 25 to 65 or 70.

would we need to have a smart investor pro for like more than a year or two if they're just going to be like teaching us i don't know like how to do investing then we'll be able to learn from them and kind of like take it from there yeah well you're not paying them a monthly fee anyway or even a flat fee per year to do your financial planning or something you're you're basically taking care of your financial planning needs

the smartvestor pros in your corner to help you make a purchase were you to do an investment if you needed to if you need to do rollover because one of you changed jobs or something like that or for advice and on a particular

situation something comes up and you go hey what about this and so i uh as an example like you say

i'm kind of in the rhythm of steadily investing and i don't have i don't have some kind of big meeting with them uh every three weeks or something if i need something i call my guy and i say hey or i sent him an email i said listen this is what i'm thinking got any ideas and he'll send me back a few ideas and maybe a few things to purchase that would do that

and then we'll execute that purchase or we won't you know i do my backdoor roth iras i just finished them up the other day for this year and um

you know so i have contact with them during that time but i don't sit and go over my statements with them every year they're not that complicated you know you can if you've got questions but the main thing a smartvestor pro does is they're just they're there and available and in your corner and you just need to kind of have these professionals at the um at the tip of your fingers at

the you know at the end of an email or the end of a phone call that a text that can get back to you and give you an answer that's good dave and you know what's so funny with my financial advisor i told him i was trying to build my dream home in the next three years and he's one who told me hey center for parking money in

the savings account this was two years ago he said start parking in the mutual fund then i heard you talk about it so financial advisors are just good people to go to to get advice for anything any situation yeah but you're not it's not like you're paying um a daycare to watch your kids or something right this or hiring a full-time governess for your children this is more like someone that gives

you parenting advice once a year that kind of a thing yeah so you're you're thinking about it correctly you've got the right mindset about it but they still need to be there available to you

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thank you for joining us america anthony o'neil is our co-host today ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book debt-free degree you want to go to college and not have any debt oh it can be done

you may not like all the choices some of them include hard work on your part but he will show you exactly how to do that with a debt free degree tony is in dallas hi tony

welcome to the ramsay show hi good afternoon dave financing uh thank you very much for taking my call sure what's up i do have a question

um regarding my mortgage and a situation i'm in i'm just thinking about kind of the future if i should save up to refinance or just sell the home currently on baby step number two and

expecting to hopefully pay that uh be out of debt for you by the end of this year but right now we're enough pause because we're expecting the baby boy uh in the late may good for you that's wonderful thank you thank you thank you and so right now the only thing is um our home we have a 30-year term fha loan

with even down payment assistance um and

so our payment is around 2200 with

income bringing in 5300 so that's our monthly income coming in uh so i know i when i first bought the home i wasn't into your apartment or anything like that a couple months later that's when i started hearing you and then i kind of made a oh situation i realized you know what i got to live and learn so now i'm trying to just find the best way of doing going about this mortgage

tony is that 5300 gross or net

uh that is gross oh so you're bringing

in about 4 400 net then no no no no no sorry

okay okay okay and you said your your house payment is how much again 22 200. so it's close to that i mean 50

almost but um we are expected an

income increase uh in august my

uh my wife is going to complete her teacher certification so we're going to see her income double what other debt do you have right now tony just fourteen thousand dollars of uh student loans so what is her income going to be then what is your total household in wait i'm sorry let me try this again what's your total household income going to be after she gets her certification so after that whenever she gets her teaching job which i think we're hoping for august i'm thinking in around 6 800 from 6 500 6800 just

defending the area where she works okay all right so that puts you at about 30 percent yes so a little high and what do you do for a living uh and i work in insurance in insurance

yes so uh how much do you project your income will go up over the next three years uh over the next three years hopefully yeah right now which is a good time i was thinking about getting a part-time job uh but right now since the storm's hit in texas i'll see they may pull me aside to do overtime and help out in the claims section of our company

so that's where i kind of what are you doing what do you do in the insurance world i'm actually a trainer so i train people how to oh okay so you're not you're not selling insurance so your income's not following a sales pattern okay so both of you are going to be getting plus or minus this overtime uh normal cost of living plus or minus

raises right yes yes okay so you're gonna be at 30 and dude you're going to have it tight for a couple years until it gets down to that 25 because your income continues to go up i don't think the house is going to kill you because her income is going to add to the thing right now um but

uh the the main point of the 25 is if you're going to be there for 10 years yeah you're going to struggle yeah if your house payments 50 of your take-home pay but it's not going to be but for a matter of months yeah i agree yeah that's what i was thinking as well i was just debating on that um i was like i know it's going to be tight enough for my life it's going to be tight a little bit yeah

and i get now with the 25 role of why it is yeah so you know because you're feeling you're feeling the pinch in your budget right now oh yeah yeah for sure let me ask you

this question when you have the baby is she coming home or is she still going to work well she's still going to work well good thing right now we kind of planned it this way okay she's having the baby late may okay so she's gonna have the whole summer off okay uh with the baby and then i do i get like six weeks paid time off so i'm gonna take

the first probably the whole month of august off while she goes back to work when the new school year uh oh that's good i'm dead that's good so yeah okay cool you got a plan so the point is it's not a forever thing it's for a for now thing and the other point is for our listeners we would not have signed you up for this trip but you're gonna be okay taking

it okay that makes sense yeah hey man thanks for the call open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five nathan's in houston hi nathan how can we help hey dave and anthony thank you for taking my call sure um i have a question

about when it's okay and how much to

possibly spend on upgrading my wife's wedding ring um i i've heard you talk about upgrading vehicles which are a little bit more practical um and depending on who you ask this might not might be practical

but um i so my wife and i are going to celebrate 15 years coming in april and uh we're we're four

baby step four five and six okay um and how much would you spend on the upgrade

that that's kind of what i was wondering um i was thinking maybe in the 20 to 25

thousand dollar range what you're in but

uh like 325 on average yeah and you're

going to pay cash flow upgrade oh for sure

let's just pose it another way okay you remember when they used to have these things called cruises that's right yeah back before the

pandemic i mean let's say that you for 15 years you wanted to spend 25 000 cash and go on a cruise a luxury luxury luxury around the world cruise or something and that was the way you were going to celebrate the 15th and you had the cash and you make 325 and you're on baby step four i would say do that okay yeah in other words if

you consumed the money and got nothing to show for it but a memory which is what travel is right right and then i would still say okay because you have the money as a ratio of your income so this is a consumption now what you don't want to do is call me up and tell me how diamonds are a good investment because that's a bunch of crap no

i i hear you talk about that often it was just it was one of those things that i'm having trouble with the with the amount so i was well if it was something else though my point is it's a ratio you can afford yeah

okay if you said if you told me that number and then you told me you make eighty thousand dollars i would be going uh that's a lot yeah sure no i understand that yeah no when we got married it was totally different well me too dude sharon's got a bad gum headlight on her finger but she started out with a .23 you can't even see the little speck

she started with not a headlight dave i like it my wife's rolling a very similar ring so yeah okay well thank you i appreciate it you've done well sir congratulations and the whole idea that you're actually asking the question yourself the question not to us but you're asking you're gauging it against something and anthony i think it's really important you've worked with lots of wealthy people and

so have i yeah that it's all about a ratio yes yeah and does it you know if you just put that amount of money in the middle of the table and burned it with a match does it ruin your life does it affect your life substantially that's the question to ask and uh if it doesn't then it's an okay consumption ratio if it does then you don't do

it absolutely and with that i mean he's been married for 15 years so i'm pretty sure his wife she's worth that investment yeah she earned it yeah she put up with him i didn't want to say she deserves it because i want her to be like i deserve it

she put up with him hey listen that's why sharon gets whatever sharon wants to say the same thing my wife can take take and deal with me for 15 years she deserves a lot yes a lot

whoa whoa whoa dave whoa whoa whoa calm down we just gotta get you started we gotta get you started though whoa whoa dave i'm working on that

my gosh yeah i mean it's uh the but the

thing is it is it's always a good thing to give you pause and think about what you're going to consume yes giving you don't have to think quite as much about because you can't really mess generosity up you want to be wise with it yes but um you know investing you know

how much can can you invest too much yeah no you really can't you know but you don't have to think about the amount as much but when you're consuming it using it for personal gain personal enjoyment then you have to need to think about it and that's a good spiritual exercise love it very well done very well done

that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality number one best-selling author of debt free degree is my co-host

today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five so coming into uh the

opener anthony and i were having an off-air discussion that i think we probably need to bring up for everyone else it's a good uh i i didn't realize it james my producer had sent me an article from forbes i was reading at the break at the top of the hour and um that that

biden had said uh president biden had said in a town hall earlier in the week that he will not forgive student loan debt with an executive order he doesn't think that that is constitutional and correct a little bit shocking very i'm i'm personally happy to hear that yeah um but that means it puts it on congress to pass and uh and he said he won't support the fifty thousand dollar forgiveness only the ten thousand dollar version but the 50 000 aoc and elizabeth warren are asking for it's a 650 billion dollar

price tag now let's keep that in let's take this out right so there's 1.7 trillion yep instantly and that so that will leave about a trillion yes if you forgave 650 we

still have a crisis still have a crisis still have a problem and as i've said many times it is intellectually dishonest to forgive student loans while you're still making them if they're so bad and people are getting

destroyed by the student loans and we have to come to your rescue you poor little people and washington's gonna be there for you and we're gonna help you out yeah if that's the case then you need to stop making the loans stop doing that and then also too dave and this may sound selfish but i worked my behind off to pay off my student loans it may not have been a lot uh

but it was still ten thousand dollars so where's your money where's mine exactly you know i worked hard and it's not just me i'm pretty sure we have millions of people listening right now like hey i paid off twenty five thousand a hundred thousand you know where's my money so you know this is interesting we already know the republican party is not going they will not forgive

the loans and then there are some democrats who are like i don't know neither yeah cause they're gonna have people like you they're going uh hello exactly i'm gonna be mad at you because i want my money back exactly you know you know and so yeah i think the um i don't know if they got the votes to do it in congress i i don't you know what

this may be a political move on president biden's part oh because if he does it he takes all the heat yeah if he puts it off on congress and then they don't do it or they do do it they get the heat yep and it's not on him they get the heat from the left if they don't do it they get the heat from the everybody that paid off their loans

and want my money back if they do do it and so yeah that's what that's maybe political cover that might be real good strategy on his part because if it does go through then he can say he has something to do with it yeah but he didn't feel like it was constitutional to do it with an executive order right and i'm i i was shocked though dave

when he came back and said that i'm not going to do 50 000 yeah i i was shot

when i read the article i said oh oh okay so right yeah all right so aoc

is not in the white house after all you know that's what it comes down to wow very interesting very very interesting it's not it's not just political it is financial it is economic and there's an issue of uh you know you

have to if you're going to be sincere yeah and i don't disagree that student loans are a huge problem yeah yeah you and i are working diligently to help people with their student loans yeah and here's my thing if they're a huge problem quit making them and that's my thing before we talk about forgiving if that is a conversation let's start let's talk about how do we stop

it from even happening in the future yeah once we fix that problem moving forward then let's come up with a game plan of how we can help the ones who we've uh talked and talked them into doing something stupid but until then why because we'll be right back at 1.7 trillion if we forgive this amount within the next five to ten years well you're going well and you're going to do

it again exactly because you didn't you didn't fix the problem exactly you just you just treated the symptom yeah i don't know the symptom is a bunch of people up to their eyeballs and can't breathe the problem is making of student loan debt and it's out of control it's too high it's too much it's gone on too long right and it's just gotten to be where it's ridiculous yeah

and um but it's very interesting i

you know i know i'm really old at times

when i see things happen in our world that i never thought i would live to see dot dot dot happen it sounds like my grandpa you say i never thought i'd live to see the day that was gonna happen i'm that guy now i'm that guy going i never thought i'd live to see the day that they'd actually consider this crap you know that's what and they are really concerned very considerate

i mean i've said on this show it'll never happen right it just shows what i know nothing i don't know nothing nah dave but i mean really i never i never dreamed that the political climate would get so far left and so far towards socialism the government providing all your goodies that they would actually be seriously considering doing this and then it looked like it was a done deal right

and now it's not again right so it's very interesting right so the moral of the story folks is this anthony and i the ramsey personalities of the ramsey organization

have committed our lives to helping you

believe and understand

the truth about how life works

which will cause you based on those beliefs if you will act on those beliefs it will

lead you towards abundance yeah if you act on the beliefs that ken coleman teaches you about careers it's going to lead you into a better career if you act on the beliefs that john

dr john deloney shares you with you about mental health it will lead you to a more mentally healthy situation absolutely um which i'm really

enjoying his podcast oh yeah and if you believe these things it will

cause your actions to occur if you believe that the government is going to take care of you it causes you to not go

cause to take personal responsibility for your life which is a key yes for you to become a

to live abundantly absolutely to live in wealth yeah and to live a good life you have to take responsibility for your marriage no one's going to fix it for you you have to take responsibility for your freaking kids nobody's going to fix them for you yeah

you know god help the people that are in classrooms today because some of you are piss-poor parents and you send wild animals into these classrooms and expect these teachers to manage them i mean it's ridiculous dave's going in you know i mean because it but it's not bringing abundance right it's not it's not that and it's you know and you know

i was with a lady the other day that works with teachers she she uh is a friend of ours that is a world-class expert in the education

field and she was saying you know what helicopter parents are help parents who helicopter in to fix all their kids problems now they've gone beyond that they have lawnmower parents i didn't know what a lawnmower parent is a lawnmower parent cuts the grass out in front of the child so they have an easy path oh man that's different than hillary clinton they're cutting the grass ahead of them

so they don't even have to walk on tall grass i mean it's just out of control see this is none of this personal responsibility is going to lead you to the greatest dignity and the greatest abundance in your life don't wait on anyone else to fix your life yeah it's your job that's it dave

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here at ramsey solutions we want to transform so many lives that disruption spreads

like wildfire across this country

imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan because everyone's assuming the best way to get an education's pay for it imagine a world where the majority people pay cash for their cars where the credit card is the cigarette of the financial industry where you know how to handle marriage you know how to handle parenting you've got a career that has meaning

at ramsey solutions this is why we have a thousand people in our in our company

to create digital products and services

events and books to transform

your life this is the goal

we have to disrupt to do it at such a scale that we disrupt the toxic culture in america so many people have just completely lost their way if you want to join us on that crusade we're currently on the hunt for software engineers ruby on rails java c-sharp run in tech not tech if you're a ux designer an seo

content marketing specialist we'd love to talk to you we're on schedule to hire 360 people in the year 2021 and a lot of them in the digital space

if you're a senior level developer

we actually go home at night

we don't work you 80 hours you're

actually go home and be with your family and when you're writing code or you're showing somebody how to write code or you're writing a piece of content or you're doing a piece of creative it's always being used to change

someone's life it's work that matters if you want to find out about the jobs we've got available go to daveramsey.com click on dave's hiring on the right hand tab

and i will tell you it's very tough to get a job here sure is it's easier to get on with the freaking fbi because we don't want crazy people in this building we want people in this building that care deeply they're good at what they do that are hot people of high character high moral fiber because that's who i want to work beside every day i don't want to work besides sleazies and crazies yes in a lot of places you have to here you don't have to it's a group of very smart people of

high character that work their tail ends off and then they go home yeah and we don't work 80 hours a week facts we go home and so if you're interested in that the interview process is difficult i'll just tell you in advance it's um it's a guy sitting out here that just got hard starts monday he's moving stuff into his a third floor apartment we just met his buddies who moved him in that's good friends right

there move you into your third floor man and uh but he's just been through the interview process and he's just shaking his head like yeah that's enough already and you know what though dave i appreciate our interview process because it even helps me to know if if

this is a good fit you know so yeah i mean i was on a pod taping a podcast with a friend of mine a while ago and she said um you know you guys are freaky over there yes we are and she goes i mean like you know what how many times people just stand up and walk out of the interview and go peace out and i said oh they do sometimes oh yeah because we are freaky yeah i mean we don't we don't really want to work with crazy people no sir

you know i don't want the ladies in this place to be worried about sleazies sleazy guys you know it needs to be safe here and if you can't be that guy then you don't need to be in here right you know i'll just you know and it's easier to find that out during the interview than it is to make you move across the country and then i got to fire your butt because you're sleazy right you know don't do that and and so

yeah it's it's a lot it it is it's actually protecting the person because you know there was a point in my life before i met christ years ago as an adult that if i had interviewed at a place like this i would have been going you people are nutty i'm not working there and i would have walked out the door oh yeah and i would because i would not have been a fit

and that's interesting i could not have gotten a job at 22 in this place [Laughter] i'm not sure i could have gotten a job in this place ever but it's a good thing i own it but yeah it's tough to get on but i mean if you're interested guys and you want to do something that matters just check dave's hiring we're hiring positions of all kinds yeah

but certainly tons and tons of digital and creative uh positions click dave's hiring at daveramsey.com all right janice is with us in colorado springs hi janice welcome to the ramsay show hi hi

guys thanks for taking my call sure um

i have just my house

and i just refinanced it uh for a 15-year loan good i want to pay extra on it is it best to pay the extra along with when i pay the

regular mortgage or to pay it like every

like two weeks later yeah do you do it online on their site yes do they have a blank on the site

that says principal only additional principle yes then it doesn't matter when you do it right

because it will get credited correctly because a computer is doing it yeah in the old days in the old days we

used to tell you when you would mail a check you remember are you old enough to remember mailing a check through the mail oh yeah mail a check through the mail for your house payment if you were going to add a check for uh if you were going to add to that amount for extra principal reduction for paying off your house faster we would tell you to send a separate check in a separate envelope

because the character opening it might not be smart enough to figure it out but the good news is the computer is smart enough to figure it out and if it says extra principle online or

additional principle or whatever and you put it in that blank it's going to go to principle they really that's not a hard piece of programming for them to do they did that right i promise you well what my my thing is is does it

change if i just make the house payment and then two weeks later make an additional payment does that drop the interest rate or the um yeah the interest once a month

down once a month whatever you do in that

month is going to affect the next month

so if you do if you do 10 extra payments in a month it's only going to affect the next month if you do one extra payment in a month equal to those 10 then it's going to affect the interest rate the next month exactly the same it's not calculated daily it's calculated monthly gotcha okay yeah i unfortunately i

haven't really done any of your baby steps but like i said i've right now i only owe on my house

my credit i have one credit card and it's frozen because i froze it okay

um how much money do you have in the bank huh how much money do you have in the bank before you start paying this these extra money ten thousand just a little over ten thousand dollars in my savings i have a little over i think it's 75 000

in my roth

uh 401k how old are you

63. good for you what do you make

um right about 45 yeah

you've done very well very yeah and just continue to concentrate i'd raise that emergency fund up a little bit and i definitely want you to invest more aggressively not just pay extra on the house i want you to be continuing to add i want that 75 000 to go way up in the next few years okay yeah okay you've done really good you've done i mean she's done a lot with a single lady making 43. yeah yeah i was about to say the same thing wow this is i'm shocked

well that sounds bad yeah you're doing a great job i'm very proud of her yeah excellent job yeah yeah i mean she's been fighting a a tough battle probably there absolutely so okay here's the calculation here's the calculation uh let's pretend you had for

calculation purposes an easy number is three percent on your mortgage okay that's that's a a quarter of a percent a month divide three by 12. okay so how

much per month is your interest if you have 3 annually 3 divided by 12 is a quarter of a percent yes okay a month that is going to be calculated on how much principal you owe at the end of that month a quart

times .0025 yeah okay or however many zero zero and

so if you've reduced the principal that next month more of your payment is going to go to principal and less to interest because your interest will be less that following month with a traditional fha va or conventional mortgage that's how it'll work

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today robin is with us in colorado springs hi robin how can we help hi anthony and dave i'm calling on behalf of my elderly parents who are in a financial pickle and need help on how to advise them they

have a three hundred and twenty thousand dollar paid for home but no savings and no retirement um

ninety eight thousand dollar heloc eleven thousand in credit card debt and their monthly income is about four thousand uh expenses are about thirty two hundred so my father wants to get a hundred and twenty five thousand dollar mortgage to pay off all of his debts and i know

that's not what you would advise dave so how can i help them

how old are they early 80s

how's their health it's good

my father works a part-time job and earns about 1100 a month doing that in addition to the four or the four is the total the four is the total okay

well it's likely that um you don't need

a hundred and twenty thousand dollar mortgage it looks like it's a hundred and nine well yeah yeah that was 109 isn't it

yes so why the other 11 uh

i'm not sure probably just a psychological cushion of some kind and what would it i

would guess his payment would be less on that if he did that than the current

yes uh monthly right now they're paying only on the interest on the heloc and it's about 325.

oh so it would the payment would go up then well right yes so i'm not even sure if

they could afford the payment so why does he want the payment to go up well that's a good question i don't know

that he's thought about that

all right um i

this is your dad and your mom yes it's not mine um but mathematically

from a an actuarial table which is what a life insurance company uses to rate probability of someone passing away

mathematically really what we want to do here is put something in place that they can hang on right it's not like we're going to turn the corner on this and they're going to move into prosperity it's just to keep them from having to move out of their house right yes so i guess the question is what gives them the most room in their budget

and keeps them from having to move out of their house is it remaining where we are or is it um getting a hundred and

ten thousand dollar mortgage no we're not going to borrow more and um so uh but but

i

you know you can run the numbers both ways but i bet that heloc is going to be cheaper monthly yeah you're not making any progress but i'm not really trying to make progress at this stage of the game right yeah i'm really just trying to let

them stay in their home okay from an emotional standpoint

because they you know anything we do that makes it harder for them to stay in the home seems kind of wrong doesn't it yeah

and it's all about cash flow at this stage of the game so i'm probably that heloc may have a

variable rate and it may have a call on it and that could be dangerous if it has like a three-year call and suddenly the mortgage company decides they want all their money right that might put him in a pinch he might be thinking about that call that balloon payment that's coming up on that thing or he may be concerned interest rates will go up in price him out of

the market so i guess i would dig into it and go okay if we get a mortgage exactly what is the payment going to be if we don't get a mortgage what's the payment going to be that's number one because i want to minimize the payment which is weird for dave ramsey to say because the goal here is not really to get it paid off the goal here is let them stay in their home yeah

because in five years statistically

you know we're not going to be dealing with this right right that was cold i'm sorry but i understand but it's just a math thing it's not just a math thing it's anything but just a math thing but i'm trying to think mom and dad i want them to enjoy the last five to ten years or whatever it is

by not having to move them i mean if we were trying to prosper we would move down into a house and pay cash for it

if we were trying to prosper right yeah but this is just protecting their their standard of living and letting them stay there and pay the minimum payment i don't know anthony thoughts nah dave i'm right there with you i'll tell you the use this credit card's bothering me they got to cut those things up and that means they're not on a budget yeah and they haven't stopped the bleeding that's exactly right yeah and he he's

and then he's trying to borrow his way out of debt and that also indicates he's not stopped the bleeding and so we do need to get if we're going

to go with my plan it really is not a good plan if they're going to continue to dig the hole

yeah because if he goes and gets a hundred and ten thousand dollar mortgage hundred twenty thousand mortgage and they don't contin they don't quit overspending they're gonna be right back here in three years two years that's exactly right and i've i've tried to tell him that but it's it's uh hard to get that problem so you know the the the biggest

thing is you have to stop the the the the overspending spin you you have to if 4k is 4k is 4k you're not in congress

you need to live on 4k

including these payments and cut the credit cards up and never use them again and get debit cards and live on a written budget with your spouse and otherwise dad you need to sell the house and you move down in house and that might be the cattle prod statement like you know like if you're not going to quit over spending you're going to lose the house

but you know because you know they're not i don't know how how long ago how long over what period time you think they ran up that 11k oh goodness uh probably just a few months they got this heloc uh not

not more than maybe two years ago

okay he cannot go get a new mortgage yeah even if it's cheaper because it's a pattern of him trying to borrow his way out they keep overspending and then they go get another loan they overspend then they go get another loan and then we should actually go get another loan we go get another loan we go get another loan they have to stop the overspending so i would say don't get a mortgage because it's the continuation of his negative pattern here yeah okay i have i honestly have no idea

where all that money went yeah well they they're probably spending six thousand bucks a month

yeah and so now the next question is

relationally how are you going to get your uh foot this far in the door to have these

right because you're going to have to sit down and do a budget with them if you're going to help them fix this and you're going to point out to your mom or whoever it is that can't stay out of freaking target that this has got to stop yeah you you've got the right person pointed out there oh and dad's trying to dad's trying to take care of her dad's a band-aid yeah he's an enabler

right okay well i think it'd be a great thing if if you guys can get create a conversation where there's a budget and you're walking them through uh putting the budget together with both of them sitting there and let her have the revelation that she's getting ready to cause them to lose their home if she doesn't stop this crap but that doesn't come from you making that statement it comes from you continuing to ask questions like mama if you continue to do this how do you think this is going to end

okay if you don't stay on this budget mom do you realize that you're you're going to that we're going to run out of money can you see that and let her see the actual numbers people can feel numbers when they're sitting and looking at them in relation to what they're doing but when she's just like over there you know being her four-year-old self at target then that that's it's not in context

but when you put it in context with the rest of the situation it gives you a jolt does that make sense yes it does and so but again that's not with you coming in there and shaming them it's more you asking a bunch of questions and put a bunch of facts in front of them and the facts will smack them upside the head that's a counseling technique let the facts do the hard work the emotional work on these on them it's

very difficult conversation either 80 year old parents it's very hard but it to the extent you can get involved as to the extent this is going to get fixed it's going to get ugly if it doesn't get fixed wow

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our scripture of the day first corinthians 9 24

do you not know that in a race all the runners run but only one receives the prize so run

that you may obtain it teddy rose teddy

roosevelt said it is hard to fail but it is worse

never to have tried to succeed

[Music] ronald is with us in new york city hi ronald how are you hey dave anthony thank you so much for taking my call sure how can we help

um me and my wife are currently face uh

tackling death we're in baby step two and we have a few expenses big expenses coming up in the next few months i graduated this past may with degree accounting and i started my salary 70 000. and my wife and i

got married this past august and we're expecting a baby in the next four months yay congrats a lot going on man

and the other other expense another thing is uh we don't own a car we live in new york city we always went through a train so once we have before the baby arrives we're looking to get a car so i'm struggling to um

you have any money so i have 18 000

saved up oh that's good i have forty two thousand student loans i start with forty two thousand i have thirty one thousand and my wife uh doesn't have any student loans fully she has full scholarship and she's currently in school she doesn't work so i'm the only one working currently

so i don't know how much to save

like how does it work how much the tax of the debt how much do one save up i'm sorry how much debt did you say you had currently 31 000.

and you have 18 000 cash you have no car

because you've been using public transportation and now with a baby you don't want to yeah so when i needed a call my parents lived 30 minutes away by public transportation so i would take their car okay so what um help me with your lifestyle situation on when you would actually utilize the car how much would it be used so since i'm working from home and

it won't be used as much i mean it would

mainly be used when you had the baby in the car correct and where would you be taking said baby [Laughter] either to the doctors or i've been told by three friends that you've been going to the doctors a few times and also usually we go out for the weekend by family so it might be driven five times a month yeah grocery shopping i'll use it at night at night i'll be using it more yeah but you don't have to have it for that you were going at nights to go

on public transportation if it's you that's right so the actual need for the car is about

five trips a month

correct around that i don't know yeah because of the baby correct yeah otherwise you were doing fine without it because most lots of people in new york city do not own cars it's not that unusual at all i know several people don't even have driver's license that live there so um uh yeah so you know what i'm gonna

buy is a minimal car that's going to start when i need to start but it doesn't really need to be that much about 5 000 bucks absolutely and 5 000 is generous i was

going to say about 3 500.

and then when baby comes you need to get the rest of that money towards the debt and let's get this debt cleared up yeah so what's the uh recommended amount that

you guys say when it comes to when you're expecting a baby to save up all you can yeah all you can yeah and so

but you're you're in an unusual situation part of you having a baby is you need this car yes

and so yeah i would take five of the 18 and or less and buy a car uh a reliable

um minivan or a four-door car of some

kind whatever you want to get and uh you can get a lot of car for five thousand if you'll shop carefully uh where are you gonna park this thing

so i don't really live in new york city i live in brooklyn okay so it's much more easier compared to new york city yes yes that's gonna because i mean a stinking parking spot in the city can in manhattan can be more than an apartment yes okay that's good so five thousand

dollars man that that's your that's your max yeah okay what the if you spend more than that let me tell you what you did you used your baby as an excuse to buy a car you wanted yes

because your need for this car is five trips a month that's your actual need

and i really think about this 15 18 000 for a car until me and my wife decided after listening to we just started listening to you to go towards you right correct

okay after the baby comes yes so i buy a

car for five 000 i'd leave the 13 sitting there i'd pile up as much as i can pile up on top of that and then when baby comes i would take it down to a thousand bucks and start your baby steps and attack that debt and then let's get the rest of that 30 000 bucks there'll be about 15 at that point cleaned off and uh as fast as

you can get it cleaned off and then once that's cleaned off you build your emergency fund you're working your baby steps but yeah i get the car i get the car purchase and i'm not you know but just don't use this as an excuse to buy an 18 000 car which is what you were about to do you said earlier and then you stumbled into the youtube or or podcast world or something

and and we

interrupted your plan so it is a different um

uh world where there's that kind of public transportation and where it's quite the norm yes it is uh versus most major cities in america you wouldn't even be having this conversation yeah you would need a car but new york yeah yeah but uh but that's uh

very interesting eighteen thousand dollars at his age i'm i'm pleased with him brittany's in houston hi brittany how can we help hi david anthony thank you guys for taking my call sure um my husband and i have a fully

funded six month emergency fund and we have no debts except for our mortgage which we still owe 86 000 on okay um we are

saving 15 of our income to retirement

and right now we're working on paying our house off early okay um i was actually just offered a new job in a new city that's out of state but it's a temporary position that the fellowship so it's two to three years and so we only plan on renting while we're there not buying a house or anything um we really don't know where we'll end up after that two to three year period

and so my question is whether really what we should do with our current house whether we should keep it and rent it out which based off of comps in the area would be about 1800 a month or if we should sell it and pocket the money and uh you know invest that what's your fellowship it's in uh molecular virology so one

more time um uh virology so i study viruses

okay all right and so obviously you're a medical doctor yeah i'm phd

okay so you're doing research it's research fellowship okay good good for you and there's no for sure chance you're coming back to your current state no not a chance yeah not when she finishes that you're going to be super valuable um

i think you need to concentrate 100 on the fellowship not on being a landlord yeah okay i think your

your focus should be singular uh this is

an important opportunity for you it's beyond important and it's a beyond it's actually quite an honor as well yeah it's you obviously have an incredible intellect and uh so yeah i i don't want this distraction of some idiot changing his harley oil in your living room back in houston while you're on the other side of the country so uh trying to work on saving the world

yeah from viruses and um so

no i think we need you focusing on your fellowship all of us do absolutely i agree so yeah i i would

sell it if i were in your shoes you'll get a plenty nice house when you do make the final location that you're going to land in that's long-distance landlording bad plan i wouldn't do it not even considering it yeah not even good stuff but thank you for what you're doing though we absolutely we need we need more of you absolutely and good analysis on hey we're only going to be

there for a couple years so we're going to rent there that's a good that was a good decision already having already made that going in now would that will she be able to stay stable though when she finds that oh yeah yeah when she finishes that that's gonna just increase her value in the marketplace dramatically wow yeah

pretty impressive good stuff that puts this hour in the books thanks anthony o'neil james childs and kelly daniel in the booth i am dave ramsey we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there is ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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## 195. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsay show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today open phones at

triple eight eight two 8255225

if ken coleman's in the house that means you are more than free to bring your career questions your questions about job hunts your questions about landing in a position that you have passion for as well as

get paid well for and all that kind of stuff so ken's here to help and you see you got a good opinion on that stuff too dude i got an opinion about everything i know and i am an expert opinion yeah but we get calls on the kick home show about toxic culture what do i do i got a a jerk boss but i've got i'm paying off debt i mean dave gives a great experience with that no stop it not true

you know but so many people are going hey can i pay off debt and switch jobs can i can i change careers while in the baby steps so dave and i can take that on as well we can tag team yeah a lot of leadership junk out there as well that affects people's hey is this the right place i'm doing the right work maybe i'm in the wrong place

so there's a lot of stuff we can take on spousal hey my spouse is is stuck how do i encourage the spouse so a lot of questions we can answer uh money and job related doing that meaningful work we're all here for you yeah the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five and kelly has stepped

out in madison which is actually uh ken's assistant producer that's for phone screener so she actually knows how to uh screen calls for ken so she can actually answer the questions as well yeah she's heard them all kelly can answer all my questions is that the truth and if you don't believe me ask her so all right genevieve is with us to start this hour in los angeles hi genevieve how are you

i'm doing good i'm doing good so happy to be on the call with you guys you too what's up in your world all

right so we have a duplex um we bought it

about seven years ago and we owe about 287 on

it um i guess i should start by saying i'm on baby step two i have about 40 000 left to pay off in the combination of student loans and credit card debt that i refinanced and we've been aggressively paying it for the last two years about 60 000 has already been paid off and we were looking to refinance our

duplex for a lower rate and a lower payment and our loan officer just told us you know what have you thought about refinancing pulling the cash out and reinvesting it so i'm wondering if that's a good idea it has a positive cash flow right now and um that's kind of where i'm at i'm like do i continue paying off my debt or go ahead and reinvest no well let me

just tell you if you ask a loan officer if you should borrow more money that's like asking a dog if it's hungry

all right i had a pug dog and it would eat itself until it died if you didn't take the food away from it and that's a loan officer they will loan you money from from today on and they always have a good idea on how to raise their commission yeah so no yeah no you're not trying to get into debt darling you're trying to get out remember yeah yeah

and it's funny because we come from a family of entrepreneurs and investors and and i'm just like i want to be zero um but of course you know it's tempting temptation is like you know can we reinvest you know later on yeah well the question you have to ask yourself is what's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy is it borrowing more

money on the duplex and investing that or

is it getting out of debt and the actual data says it's getting out of debt

okay that's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy and so if we're going to get out of debt because it's the shortest distance between where you are and wealthy then getting into more debt would be oxymoronic wouldn't it yes

okay yeah so what's your household income and how quick you're going to pay off this 40k with your cash flow oh within the year i like you that's

awesome i like you so just refinance that refinance that duplex put it on as short a term as you can put it on on as low an interest rate as you can put it on and let's get that duplex paid off now too boom just like that one more loan officer smack silly i've been doing this 30 years and it never gets old what is the score dave ramsey 1 million to 0 on that one uh

you know what dave seriously i want to ask you a psychology question there because what happens is she's she's doing the right thing she's working the baby steps paid off 60 000 40 to go within the year

they're debt-free living like nobody else and she calls the loan officer they do what they do not demonizing but they're doing what they're doing i will and i know you will and it changes the narrative so we have to switch the narrative back and go no i called to save money which is going to help me get out of debt faster because if i'm saving money on the current mortgage payment uh it means more money towards the debt snowball and that narrative just gets all jumbled in their minds yeah it is human nature

and it is really actually intelligent in a way to look for the easiest route

we want the easiest route right and you really should why would you take the hard route if there's an easy one i mean it's intelligent to do that yeah you want to take the easiest route but the in search of the easiest route we tend to it's all of us

tend to look for a pill if i could just

take that get out of debt pill i'd be out of debt i could take that lose weight pill i'd lose weight if i could take that uh make my marriage happy pill we don't want to do the stuff

uh you know no discipline seems pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness human nature is to look for the easiest route and that leads us if we're not careful over the precipice into the get-rich-quick mindset into the uh there's a shortcut right

everybody knows about but me that's right and i think i found it that's the truth there's not one yeah there's no shortcut to any place that's worth going and that's the trap dave the progress oh

progress is smart so the very thing that's not smart it's dumb to do that take on more debt it feels smart because it's progress it fee well it feels like it's a shorter

yes okay it's a shortener quicker oh that's an easier route yeah and um because oh look i feel better all that debt's gone i don't think about it and instead i gotta crunch and run run and grind through the rest of the year but then when it's gone it's really gone because see here's here's an interesting fact about the math on this you cannot borrow your way out of debt that is true let that one sink in yeah just get that'll get

you there in a minute if you keep digging you can't get out of a hole while digging out the bottom and so you can move your debt to your home your duplex your you can move it around that's what debt consolidation does it allows you to feel like you did something but the debt is still there it just has a new name that's right it just moved

it it's all you did so please don't act like you invented fire okay you didn't do something that was really you that's the but that's the that's why i call it debt consolidation here's here's how we know that this is true 88 of people that take out a debt consolidation loan to end quotes air quotes pay off their debt which it wasn't paid off it was just moved 88 that's 9 out of 10 times

end up not changing their habits and running up new debt over there so they move the credit cards over onto the second mortgage and now they run up new credit cards because they don't change the habits 88 nine out of 10 times but it felt like

you were doing something oh yeah very smart this is a smart move i'm getting a lower interest rate i've got our interest rate really better off lower interest rate it's all about the interest rate it's not about the fact that i can't freaking stop my spending like i'm in congress and so and that's not genevieve this is just a thing this is the day we're this is the ramsey

show [Music]

folks it's an honor to tell you about the army national guard not only are they big supporters of our high school curriculum but they also give you the opportunity to impact your local communities whether your goals are to get an education serve your country or have a better life the army national guard can help get you there plus they offer unbelievable financial benefits secure your future today visit nationalguard.com to find out more

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so

ken coleman ramsey personality is my

co-host here today on the ramsay show thank you for joining us the phone number here triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your careers your money your life anything you wanna talk about speaking of careers here at ramsey solutions we are trying to do something pretty radical we wanna transform so many lives that disruption spreads

like wildfire across our country imagine a world where it's weird to have a student loan where the majority people pay cash for their cars where the credit card has become the cigarette of the financial world where living and working in a job that you love in a career field that you love and prospering is normal instead of statistically

philosophically unusual at ramsey solutions that's why we have a thousand people at this company working together to create digital products and all kinds of goods and services to help people transform their lives with the goal of disrupting this toxic culture and if you don't think that the culture in america is toxic you haven't come outside lately if you want to join us on that crusade we're currently on

the hunt for many software engineers ruby on rails java c-sharp front-end technologies if you're a ux designer we need you seo content marketing specialists we'd love to talk with you digital designers we're there baby any just about anything we've got about 360 positions to fill this year

we are exploding here we're just finishing up a new building next door and that means there's room for people it's that simple so find out about all these opportunities at daveramsey.com click on the right hand side button it says

dave's hiring if you're a senior level developer how about this when you teach people and mentor people and coach people to write code they're writing code that changes people's lives not that's going into a black hole it actually matters oh and by the way we go home at six o'clock we don't work you 80 hours a week we have this weird idea that you should actually be a good dad and a good mom and be home with your kids and that's

really weird if you're in the technology world because they try to kill people in the technology world it's almost like first year law students isn't it they just churn through them yeah churn and burn baby all right ashley's with us in sacramento hey ashley what's up hi how are you doing great how can we help um so i just have a question so

my husband and i were we're debt-free we luckily were able to get through school without any debt and my husband just landed his first job

out of school and he's making some good money so we opened up with his 401k and then also opened up a

roth ira and we've been contributing a little

bit but i know you recommend 15

to go towards retirement but we're also trying to save for a down payment so i was wondering do you still recommend the 15 while we're trying to save for that or is it okay to do a little less okay how old are you guys um i'm 21 and he's 24. okay

well first let's establish you've got some time there is not a rule that says you go to hell if you don't buy a house by 25.

okay you're gonna be okay you're gonna you got a little time to work on this you don't have to panic um you're gonna be just fine and you've done a really good job so far very well done all right two

things one is we teach a process called the baby steps one is a thousand dollars saved you've done that two is debt free you've done that three is a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses have you got that

yes we do good excellent okay and what's your household income um so he's making sixty thousand i'm still job searching that's cool so what do you think you'll be making when you land something um probably around 30. okay so you have

a roughly 100 000 income 90 to 100k right in there and you're just beginning your career so it'll go up that's excellent okay now we teach after people are at baby step three they have their emergency phone and they're debt-free if they are ready to buy a home at that point then you would save up your down payment if you want to put your retirement savings on hold temporarily we call that baby step 3b baby step 3 being the

emergency fund 3b be being saved for the down payment on

your home okay okay

and if you want to so if you want to sit out of retirement for two years or three years and pile up cash very rapidly now the other thing i'm hearing is i think i'm hearing you're not on a written budget and you guys need to get a detailed written game plan because uh you would have known exactly what was going on you've got general concepts and again you've done a really good job

but i want you to get in a detailed written budget jump on every dollar it's an app you can download for free and start to figure out how to put that budget together or look at a free uh trial at ramsey plus where you can use the every dollar premium budget version and get through the classes as well julie is with us julie is in nashville hi julie how can

we help yes i have a question so for accreditation at my job the mean salary for my position is about 12k more than i'm making and i have about two years before i can make the next level and i just wondered if i you know talking about her ken saying don't go after a raise about how you can develop and grow and so if i go and ask for a growth plan should

i mention like you know i i know that because the tables are posted like i'm less than this that i'm at the current salary you know at my current position um i do know that i for my location i

make more money in the area than you know other jobs in the area okay yeah so

i didn't quite understand that last part because i think it's got to be industry specific so if you're trying to industry specifically right it's industry okay but what you're seeing is the median across the nation you're about 12 000 lower but not in your area but not in your area yeah yeah so my area for my area i'm

actually higher okay but for my my specific company i'm actually 12k less than what they post for my title okay okay well okay so that's great information uh and so you're right i want the rest of the audience to hear this dave i don't like people going in and asking for a raise it puts your leader in a very awkward position if there's been no conversation there

and so ramsay solutions we've got a wonderful wonderful rhythm around this around growing and that is we have a very clear kra key results area it's one page uh for everybody including the personalities and so there's clear uh goals there's

clear boundaries for this is the work that i'm responsible for these are the results i'm responsible for and then we meet every year an annual meeting of course there's meetings all the time around here with our leaders but here's here's the deal i don't want you to ask for a reason when you sit down and say hey i want to grow and i i know that i need to grow my skills i'd like to know from

you if we could get together don't put them on the spot and say hey i'd like to have a meeting soon where we talk about a growth plan that includes me adding some skills that you think maybe i need to add strengthening some areas where i'm i'm good but i could be better to add more value to the organization and then you want to say hey as

i want to do those things i want to be measured on that growth and as a result i'd like to see how that may lead to additional responsibilities and more influence in my position or in the company and and when i'm growing professionally then that leads to a natural conversation of growing my income and so that's how i like people to to bring the leader in let

the leader have some ownership and speak into your growth and i think because

you're in a situation where you're paid you could go in with information and say hey here's what the median is and i've done some research on this but i i don't like bringing that into the conversation until there's a growth plan that's agreed upon because here's what i know dave in a healthy organization with healthy leadership they will respond the right way and they'll say sure we can do that

and if they don't have the built-in systems that we have at ramsey solutions this can develop that and healthy leadership will accept that and figure that out if they don't already do it and then the conversation david is is it okay off the back end of that conversation to say because i noticed that i'm 12 000 below the posted amount and i want to know what i need to do to be worthy that's

it you bring that up after you say hey i want to grow and make myself more valuable to the company with your measurement yeah and that's why i do want them in that conversation to recognize that she's being paid less than their stated amount yes absolutely that's a i would want to know that as the leader but you do that in the actual meeting that we described not setting up

the meeting yeah off the back of the conversation not in the actual meeting you're not opening the conversation with that it's closing the conversation with that yep that's it that's i got it okay yeah because i would want to know that as the leader so i could make the adjustment because i would go oh crap i didn't realize that's exactly right

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsay show i'm dave ramsey your host michael is with us michael's in boise idaho hey michael how are you i'm better than i deserve how about yourself better than i deserve sir how can i help um i got a quick question for you my wife and i are in baby steps four five and six and i've got some savings bonds that my grandad gave me for my birthdays

and christmases growing up as a kid they totaled about 900 so we're not talking about a lot of money here but i do want to honor my grandad with what i do with this money so i have a two-part question first would be uh dave do you have a guiding principle on how to honor financial gifts given by family members who've passed away well i i always just

it's a general concept i always just think well when i do this is he going to be in heaven smiling that's good that's really good and so you know it might be that he told you this is for your college and it didn't ever end up getting used for college for whatever reason and instead he hated debt and you use it to pay off a credit card well he'd be smiling even though it wasn't the original intent because it but it matches with who he is or was right right you know so my granny used

to give us savings bonds all times for our kids college and of course they don't pay squat and so as soon as i could get a hold of as soon as i could get a hold of him i and she she blessed her heart she believed in savings bonds and she was religious she gave those 50 100 200 to pop they're coming in for the kids and as soon as

i could cash them out i cashed them out and put them in a mutual fund and uh bless her heart i told her the truth i did not lie to her she would say how's those savings bonds doing i said they're doing great granny because they are they're now in a mutual fund so they're actually freaking producing something but i didn't give her the details i just told her

the truth they're doing great now because her intent was to help the kids have some money for college and her intent was uh what i did with

them i i didn't go buy a steak at a steak

house for myself that would not have made her smile right and then i would have had to lie to her or the truth and she'd been mad or whatever but you know but but the point is you know what's the right thing to do and you know that's my guiding principle on honoring whether they're alive or dead but certainly where there's inheritance what it does it keeps

you from doing something childish like if your grandpa leaves you 100 000 in exxon stock and you go buy a used lamborghini well that's dumber than a rock yep you know

and that ain't going to make him smile because he can't spell lamborghini i can just tell you that so you know i know i can't that's two of us michael well i mean that's the whole thing so the the point is just because when you get an inheritance you kind of have it's like you said it's 900 it's not a lot of money but put a couple zeros on it's 90 grand now okay

and so if it's 90 grand then you know what you have is you have a little bit of that lotto moment like game on baby road trip you know and you start thinking about what you're going to do with this money that's really irresponsible and mature yeah i got a thought here michael i'm just going to give you this and you take this um if it were me

because of your financial status baby step four five and six you're rocking it 900 is not going to make that big a difference it's not like you it would take care of a baby step uh or excuse me a a debt in the debt snowball i i would ask yourself or maybe talk to your mom and dad what if you knew him well what what did he love what fired his soul up was

there a cause was there an activity that that he really loved and if it were me i would do something really cool or consider doing something really cool with that 900 around that something because i heard in your voice you want to honor him and you're doing such good with your finances 900 bucks doesn't make a huge difference i love you can use it in your baby steps

and keep on rolling or you could do something cool here dave that let's just say he was he was into hunting or he he he was into woodwork or something and you could bless somebody maybe who's starting out or uh or or you know generosity moves generosity in the in the spirit of your grandfather that he would smile from heaven on that amen erica's with us in fort lauderdale hey erica what's up hi dave hi ken uh

first of all thank you so much dave you changed me in my husband's life no you did i'm proud of you oh thank you

um so my husband and i um we are our

question is whether we keep our house or not we um we actually are in ministry we live overseas um right now in the caribbean and and basically uh we are we have a house in fort lauderdale and we're fully supported by churches so um

but the thing with our house right now is it um we're planning to stay where we are maybe for the next five to nine years we've come to that decision so we have this house in fort lauderdale and it needs a new roof insurance isn't paying for it so we can't go through that um it's south florida so taxes are really high and we're learning about all this we didn't realize this with taxes and everything um and so we're just considering selling it yes um yes okay

today wow this thing's not a blessing

it's a curse it's not bringing you peace yeah that's true it's not it's not adding to your life can you make money on it yeah they'll make money on it you can

make money on can't you when you sell it yeah yeah yeah dave yeah yeah i just wanted to confirm that i mean so i think i put some money in the bank to ensure that to ensure that your missionary endeavor doesn't run up underfunded at some point yeah and you all the missionaries keep this is a problem as all the missionaries tell us and we just witnessed

it don't tell your house like this is the thing with missionaries they they don't have anything when they go back so they're like don't sell your house whatever you do so i think a big part of us is like if we sell it you know we don't want that money that well i i disagree with that sentiment and i have told missionaries that for 30 years that is a wrong statement

you should sell your house if you're going to be gone five years you should sell your house it take the proceeds and take whatever you would have spent on a house payment and invest it in good mutual funds so that you have a nice house fund to buy a home when you come home

yeah but the idea that you need to keep your property and try to be a long-distance landlord while you're trying to serve jesus in the caribbean that is just dad gum hard that just adds pain to your life not blessings yeah scarcity versus abundance you're not going to be homeless when you come back yeah you can especially you need to have a plan to have a home

when you come back so that part that's what's driving them to make the statement of never sell your house because they're afraid they're not going to have the money to buy a house because they've never saved anything so if you don't plan to have a home when you come back by investing then you then then you've made a real mistake but you need to plan by continuously investing to be ready to return

let's run the numbers out on that dave because i think it was great advice i mean just a ballpark number let's say they make a hundred grand on their house or 150 and they put it in a mutual fund she said they're going to be there five to nine years she puts in a good mutual fund that becomes that housing fund if all of their other expenses on

the mission field are covered that becomes a sizable down payment it'll double yeah it'll double in about seven years that's the narrative again that's not happening yeah but if you take that money and spend it to live on the mission field and you have zero money and zero house and you come off yeah that's the fear that has created this thing oh never sell your house when

you go in this field now if you're going to mission field for six months that's a different thing these people are going to be gone five seven years ten years whatever so that's a different that changes the equation as well kimberly is in san bernardino california but we're going to come to her after this commercial break i just looked up and saw the uh i saw the clock creeping up on us

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789 home to 33789

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today you can hear the ken coleman show on sirius xm as a podcast we're at about 75 radio stations around america so be sure you tune in he speaks every day to people all over america about how to get and keep the best career path that puts you into

what he calls your sweet spot living your passion kimberly is with us in san bernardino california hi kimberly how are you good hi dave i had a question

me and my husband are kind of debating

our question is should my husband take a new job and depending on the retirement we don't know a lot about retirement so we don't know the questions that we should ask he currently has a job where he has a tier one and tier two that he pays him to he works for the railroad so the new job from what we know

that he was offered does not offer retirement but they match six percent i don't know what questions to ask to make a wife's choice okay um well i mean if if they're if they have a 401k that they match in six percent that sounds like a fairly normal company type position versus the railroad which has a very unusual retirement system okay okay so what does

your husband make at the railroad he you want to know hourly no annually

okay i have the paper in front of me so

annually um i don't okay so annually it shows i

don't think it has one here so i'm thinking around what does he bring what's he bring home a month or a week or whatever okay so he gets paid every two weeks about twenty one hundred dollars one thousand after ten yes twenty one hundred dollars and so forty two hundred dollars a month so forty eight thousand dollars a year and so he's making about 60 65 000 depending on what's coming out of his chat okay correct okay now what's the new job pay

25 an hour so whatever that is times 80

times i don't know what that is

but um 50 grand okay thank you a guy in

the lobby just helped me all right so uh you're gonna make about the same or a little bit more at the new job okay right okay now the

question here though is how old is he my husband's 30.

okay so when he's 60 old like me

what's he gonna be glad he spent the last 30 years doing

which one of these what i think

saving for retirement paying off no no no no no no that wasn't what i was talking about can this is yours yeah so here's the thing we've got the numbers right he's making 60 to 65 now on the railroad this new job is going to pay him about 50.

there we go now now we're moving the right direction so this is a temporary pay cut for the opportunity to advance not just financially but also professional what would he be doing at the new job um so far what i know it's called the operator d so it's borax i don't know if you guys ever heard of borax it's called boron rio tinto so they um it's a mine and they do minerals so he would be packaging shipping out minerals everything to do with it's not

under the ground mine it's above the ground it has to do with the minerals they put in electronics when he talks to you when he talks to you about it what do you think his excitement level is

sorry what do you think his excitement level is when you hear him talk to you about this new job on a scale of one to ten one no excitement ten he's throwing a party what's his excitement level when he talks to you about this new job 10.

of your income away for retirement and they're going to match another six and so you're going to retire wealthy if you do that okay so you're fine you're not you're not you are not going to retire and have to eat alpo that's right okay good now here's here's the other thing never take a job ever ever just for the money

never take a job ever because of the freaking benefits package that's true always take a job because it has a bright future and makes you smile doing the work yes this is the way you make a decision on a job not based on the freaking 401k match that's exactly right now let's go back into our baby steps dave let's walk let's walk other people through this because

this call we get this a lot on the ken coleman show i know a lot of people listening watching right now are feeling this too so this is a temporary pay cut okay so in three to six months he's gonna go from 25 an hour to around 32 an hour so they need to get back into their budget and go okay we have to plan for a temporary

pay cut but it's temporary so we got to adjust the budget we plan for this and we absorb this your thoughts on that yeah absolutely absolutely don't act like it's not happening yeah because they only end up you know i ran up five thousand dollars in credit card debt because we took a pay cut you know that's just that's dumber than a rock don't do that so

you got a plan this is gonna happen it's to happen so plan on the drop in pay make sure you're going to br lower your lifestyle to fit that and then you can then you can begin your investing process later but yeah railroad retirement is incredible it is not so incredible that you should keep a job making absolute ceiling on your ability to progress and keep a job that

you don't like doing yeah this is important to point out that you know when it's time to consider moving on when you have been told and it's been made obvious to you that you've hit your lid now you've got to sit back and go okay am i okay with this lid because dave you know this we as humans are creatures of progress it's just wired into us by our creator

we want to make progress we want to grow uh some people have gone so far as to say if you're not growing if you're not learning you're dying now you there are some jobs where you go hey this is it and i'm good here and this is it but for those of you who want more in your work and you're in an environment where because of the organization or

the leadership there is an artificial lid on you you're not moving up it's time to start thinking about moving on absolutely that'll wear on you jeff is in raleigh north carolina hi jeff what's up i'm doing well how about you guys good how can we help so i'm curious i have 61 000 in a ira

rollover account from previous work history i'm curious if i should roll that into a roth ira uh i'm in baby step two no

because you're gonna you're gonna create twelve thousand dollars worth of taxes to add to your baby step two so i am um hear me out for a second

so i i was 17 five on my truck

i have fifteen five in savings and i'm getting ten thousand dollars back uh in taxes this year so that's gonna wipe out my debt we'll be on baby step three good and you still don't have you still don't have an extra fifteen thousand dollars to pay the taxes

uh so my numbers if i moved half of it i

would get just stop okay i would not do this

okay i would i it's an old 401k is that

what you said yes i would roll it to a traditional ira in good mutual funds later on in your wealth building i would convert it to a roth in a few years after you get the house paid off and do some other things and you've got some extra cash laying around but when you throw 15 000 or whatever

at this you know a fourth of it's gonna be taxes roughly at this account because you're rolling it to a roth then that's money you could have used to build your emergency fund build your kids college fund get the house paid off and some things you should do before you send the government money and so i instead would just move it to a traditional ira and let it sit there and grow in some good mutual funds and convert it to a roth later

you need the fifteen thousand dollars that you would be spending on taxes to do things that are more important than this becoming a roth today it's a matter of priorities you do

what you want but that's what you asked this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice can coleman ramsey personality and career expert host of the ken

coleman show author of the number one best-selling book the proximity principle is my co-host today so you've got questions about career about jobs well you can mix those in with the questions where we talk about life and money the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five and

is with us in orlando florida hi ann

welcome to the ramsey show hello thank you so much for taking my call sure what's up um well i'm a widow

and i just am really concerned about my debt my future on a positive i just received a ten thousand dollar check in the mail on the opposite end my primary mortgage was just sold to a lender that i'm not comfortable with i need a new roof and i have a heloc so i'm considering refinancing all of that together it would also be at a much significant interest rate and then for the and then

taking that ten thousand dollar check and throwing that at the credit card and i have a bonus check next month that i think will take care of the one other debt that i have is that a good plan to get me set up so that i can retire well in the future how old are you i'm 53. okay and what do you make about 63 a

year okay when's your husband pass he passed

five years ago [Music] i'm sorry um sounds like you are really on top of things proud of you very well done i like mine i have my moments i like everything in your plan except borrowing to do the roof

okay so your plan is really good you need to get rid of that he locking that higher interest rate mortgage by refinancing and get a cheaper rate i love that part of the plan that's really good the ten thousand dollars towards the credit cards makes a lot of sense is the roof leaking it is not um but locally a lot of the insurance companies are requiring that people re-roof their homes

and the roof on my house is probably about 20 years old so it's getting about time that it's going to need to be done okay do you have a bid on it i have people coming out next week to give me bids okay how big a house is it

um it's uh 20 it's 2300 square foot but

i also have a 600 square foot lanai and that just has a different type of roof yeah is it asphalt shingle roof yes it is okay all right cool you make 63 and you have how much your credit card debt there are 17 on the card okay and that's your only debt other than your home i have one other debt i i still have 1200 left on

the monument um for our gravesite and anticipating being able to pay that off next month with my with a bonus check okay how much is your bonus check don't be um it varies um but it generally it should be about a net of thirteen hundred dollars okay all right so we've got counting the ten thousand we've got eleven thousand three hundred dollars we got a twelve hundred dollar bill

and a seventeen thousand dollar bill right yes okay so let's get in attack

mode knock the little bill out and let's get those credit cards knocked out make sure they're cut up finish paying off that debt build your emergency fund and then build your roof fund

refinance your first and your second together i i don't want you going into debt further on this house because part of your retirement plan is getting this house paid off um yes it is i have a whole lot of equity in the house and i should still be able to get the house paid off in 15 years yeah well you i i yeah you're going to because you're not going to borrow for the roof yeah so yeah we're going to put this on

a 15 year and you're going to be done with it sooner than that and you're going to save up and pay cash for this roof and you're going to be able to make all of that work because you're going to lay out a detailed plan and um the good news about you is you

are really paying attention i'm very proud of you there's not anything happening on accident here you've spent a lot of time thinking about this and it led you to really good conclusions except for that one detail

and so you know you really have done you know you did really smart when you came on the air but everything you're going doing is in the right direction joseph's in kansas city hi joseph what's up good afternoon gentlemen yes sir honor to be talking with uh with you and ken on the show today this is more of a mindset question more than do we have the funds okay um i have actually been unemployed for 10 months my wife has been working i do collect i do collect

basically we've saved money aside to build a home and uh we're having a we've been saving for over 20 years to actually buy or build a newer home and now it's come

time i've been i inherited property three years ago and it was actually burned down b's property but beautiful piece of land and you know we

currently own the hall our home now we have absolutely no debt live in old dave ramsey way you know our newest cars from 1999 that we keep it running

so you know we're looking for for actually some guidance beyond family because everyone else in the family says live on debt we do not believe in that at all we have absolutely no debt so regarding this it's more of a mindset

question we uh we've been saving for 20 years we can actually we have the cash to build the home but we're just having such a hard time of actually finding that contract to go ahead and begin to build why because it's been over 20 years

of saving living very frugal way below our means which would make me want to sign that contract and get this crap done that's a good point dave and yeah you know uh both of us we've never made more than 20 bucks an hour uh the house bill itself is going to be about 240 000 how much does it say uh we currently

have 416 000 cash in retirement we have 308

000. okay so um what is it that's scaring you

it's the fact of

i just have not ever made a whole lot of income and it's going to take a long time to replace that 230 240 000 that we're going to be spending so primarily it's a matter of finding another position i'm actually starting my own

investment advisory firm i've been financial coaching no fee for years and it's something that i love to do but i'm still looking for employment and well if you want to wait until you get employment and that gives you the sense of stability to do this that would not be illogical yeah but joseph here's the deal you got plenty of money but if if if that's the last emotional hurdle hurdle uh that says

you know i really want to have a job before i break ground on this thing there's nothing that says you have to start today right and uh dave i gotta address this joseph when dave asked you point blank what the fear is it's it's i've saved so much money over so long a period of time and once i spend it on this house it's gone and it's not

let's say that 10

15 years from now you want to sell that house that's going to appreciate you paid cash for if i'm understanding that right that money's coming back and then some yeah and the home you're getting that is perfect yeah yeah and the home you're in is paid for and it turns into a really nice rental property i suppose uh yes sir it's actually it's this little two-bedroom home uh you know joseph rental property do it

you're ready to go if you want to wait till you get a job that's fine but you're ready to go there's nothing financially out of place here it's just hard you're right it's hard to turn loose so it took you a long time to get here and you kind of like that pile of money being there yeah and uh that's a normal human reaction so but it's you did it you you this is what you did it for now enjoy the fruits of your hard work and discipline

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance

but rather a federally approved exemption to the health care law it's a time-tested model to help take care of your health care costs it's christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills adjusting to a new system of paying for health care was kind of tricky but that's where chm stepped in and they really helped navigate that water with the hospital and the payment want to see if chm is the right fit for your healthcare needs check out our website at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org backslash

budget it was just such a relief to know

that financial burden was going to be taken care of

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ken coleman ramsay personality is my co-host today open phones at triple h 8 2 5

5 five two two five amelia is in boston

hi amelia how are you hi dave hi ken i'm well thank you for taking my call sure what's up um so i'm calling in today to get some guidance on getting on the same page with money as my grandmother actually she has given me a very

generous gift and put it in a trust for me of a hundred thousand dollars earmarked for tuition and for a purchase of my first home when the time comes so we've taken chunks out of that over the years for tuition and there's about seventy five thousand left i personally outside of that i'm just about to finish baby step three so i'm looking to purchase my first home in

the next one to three years now the question here that's causing some uh contention and disagreement is that that money is all invested in the market mostly in index funds right now and with me wanting to use it in the relatively short term my position is that we should take it out and have it in cash well my grandmother's position is you know it's done well it's earned great returns over

the last several years why would we not want to continue that so i'm looking on guidance as to how to have that conversation and do what i believe is the right thing with this money while you know still being extremely grateful for the gift she gave you the money and she put it in trust and she's managing the trust correct she's a bit of a control freak

i think with money it's mainly a position of experience you know i'm 22 she's 74 so

she's got a lifetime of experience and it does seem to me a bit controlling you know i'm a natural saver been financially responsible for my whole life you're in control and the money was given to you to buy a house and you can't take it out and buy a house with it right i don't understand

yeah uh i mean that's that's the point that i'm stuck at is how to have that conversation um so are

you when are you gonna buy a house um probably in two or three years why

two or three years uh because i'm not sure that i want to stay in this area long term so uh you know i'm waiting to get a little confidence there before i make the financial commitment to a house okay well this is more of an issue of uh

you know puppet master than it is actual financial advice right yeah and so that you know you just got to decide which hill you want to die on um as far as the you know her advice

goes it's not the end of the world okay let's say that those index funds went down ten percent during

that three years which would be one of the worst three year periods in the stock market's history sure then you would have lost seven

thousand dollars right yeah it's it's

not end of the world either way yeah and so and if it goes up ten percent during that time you would have made seven thousand dollars so you know you your

of this money not of this money being in

the market is not substance shouldn't be substantial because the actual dollar figures aren't going to be substantial her wanting to take advantage of the market is almost laughable because it's also going to be about seven thousand dollars right it's a philosophical thing

you know is really all it comes down to so you know it and that reveals

that you guys are both being drama queens about this yeah but that's fair to say um yeah it's you know it's not a big deal either way but it's difficult to have the conversation yeah it's just like it's a control conversation it's a puppet master conversation and you know so like i don't know if this woman is actually going to release this money when you're ready to buy a house i can't tell yeah i'm sometimes worried about that um

because she's actually taken out the the

growth that's already come under the account over time so yeah

yeah oh she took it out and used it herself yeah wow yes which i mean the original balance is still there so that was her call but wow yeah that was not something i was about to say just a little strange so here's what i'm gonna do i'm just go about the business of building up your own down payment and then if that money's there and she wants to give

it to you fine if not just tell her to keep it yeah absolutely that's fair enough that's pretty much the plan uh either way yeah because i i don't think you're going to win this argument one more thing because the problem with her actually letting you buy a house with a 75 000 is that's the last conversation she has where she gets to tell you what to do

and she really likes telling you what to do so i okay so i got to ask you this i'm surprised at your answer i was a little surprised is it great i mean it's dead on but i thought don't you just die on that hill with grandma you told me this is what it was for i'm not going to fight with you and ruin our relationship but that's what that's

it yeah i mean because listen you can hear what's happening with this lady and there is no winning the argument with this woman 100 agree okay so why have the argument because you're not gonna win it right you're either gonna sever the relationship over seven thousand dollars and the money's not the thing it's the control mm-hmm and um so

and then the other side of that is if i'm making a gift if i'm the grandma okay i've often said on here you're gonna get my money you're gonna get my instruction okay but i have never given someone a

gift and then managed it right

that's not a gift yeah that's that's controlling so that's you know but i i would say i'm not going to give you this gift if you're not doing these things but once it's given you need to take your hand off of it i agree and uh you're saying don't even try to have the conversation and go hey listen i don't want to fight i don't want this to go grandma

i love you and thank you for the money and i hope it's there if you still want to do it when we get ready to buy a house that'll be fine because we're going to go ahead and start building up our own down payment i know you'll be proud of us when we did that i love you thank you and just keep moving because what it does just takes all of her power away

and she really is a lot about power that's true what happens when gra if grandma dies before this i suspect the trust has terms that leave it too that would beneficiary of the truth is amelia okay that okay yeah that's good i needed to process through that because sometimes it's like principal let's have the conversation and i think you're right now as i process what you said it's like i'm channeling my inner john d'alone just tell them

you love them and keep going i think you're right i was wondering though i was like okay you're trying to be nicer dolone's inspired me to be nicer he's very nice he is a nice very in touch with his feelings and ours he's in touch with everyone's feet he really is he really is that's good and he has a lot of feelings yes he's not even here to defend himself i'm ragging on him no he's awesome man he's he's great

i love it regina is in

nashville hi regina how are you

fine dave hi uh thanks for having me on the show hello uh ken also how are you guys doing today great how can we help you we're short on time go straight to it okay straight to it um all right i'm unemployed my husband just got a job about three weeks ago we moved from uh california to the murfreesboro area in october i'm having a heck of a time

finding a job we owe a ton in taxes and

our finances are a mess what did you used to do

uh well my last position i was an office assistant i've basically been in office for about the last 20 years uh my goal is to become a loan signing

agent within the next couple of months

so i'm looking for you know something to tide me over until that can be enough of an income so that i can do that well then here's what you do so regina let me let me encourage this is a really good job market in tennessee and certainly in the greater nashville area and you need to be just getting a job or two right now you've got an income problem

and so you can drive you can deliver pizza you can show up and work at a grocery store you can work at a warehouse don't just limit yourself to office management positions when that's going to be a short term play it seems like for you anyway right now this is urgency and so we're going to go get a job two job three jobs just go get a job get stable

and then get back up on the horse towards that purposeful plan do anything yes so that you can do anything later that's right work like a crazy person and yeah there's positions out there lots of them in the murfreesboro area murphy's booming booming but you need to broaden

your focus to almost anything instead of so narrow so you get landed in get the wolf away from the door because you got this wolf howling outside and it's driving you crazy this is the ramsey show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at eight eight two five five two two five jonathan and rachel are in bowling green kentucky says on my screen you guys are ready to do a debt-free scream what's up

hey how are you great how much debt have you guys paid off we've paid off a hundred and two thousand dollars in two years so 24 months way to go and your range of income during that time so we started at about um 75 000

um by the time we were done we were we were around about 115 000 and now we're back down to about 70 000 but that'll be going up soon we hope good good deal so what do you guys do for a living um i'm a dental hygienist and i work for ups very good but while we were paying off our debt um i was a dental hygienist

but me and jonathan we both worked at a um at a restaurant together he was the kitchen manager and i was a waitress which i've done for several years and we worked countless hours between the two of us we usually worked about 60 to 80 hours a week so it was wow how old are you guys

um we're both 29.

went crazy it was two years ago that we went crazy yep we remember every moment of it yeah and you did 50 000 a year for two years that's impressive i mean you've been on beans and rice rice and beans for sure we sure did there was many many times we worked seven days a week for the most part

you know with jonathan he would get up some days at um six a.m to go to work and we wouldn't leave until one a.m uh for the restaurant so it was it was rough yeah and it's over

it's over will you ever go back in debt

oh never again never again what kind of debt was this

um it was several things we had student loans mostly and then cars and credit cards not a whole lot of credit card debt though and we had a little bit of medical debt i think mostly it was um our student loans and car loans so we had a lease at the time which was very dumb yeah wow i'm so proud of you

guys well done thank you you are not afraid

of hard work and when you get absolutely not and you're not afraid to work together and these are very important things so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is because you did it honestly it's just staying focused it it really i don't know i tell people it really wasn't that hard once we put our minds to it you know we we worked a little bit more

but we were already working so much that it just you know it kind of after a while it came natural it was actually kind of fun you know every month we'd just pay off i mean more and more would go towards the snowball and it was just it was it was kind of fun wow well done well i

want to ask a question to both of you because this is this is something that i think people need to catch the fun part was the momentum each month

but there have got to be times when you're working that kind of schedule where you go i know why we're working this hard i don't ever want to have to work this hard again am i right you are absolutely right um

jonathan's been lucky going from working 80 hours a week to until he starts in his full-time position at his job he's down to 20 hours a week and this is everything he's ever dreamed of with the work last well i'm hoping you've taken a few naps jonathan because you've earned every day all good okay that's good to know that's good that's so great well done you guys who were your biggest cheerleaders other than the two of you oh gosh definitely my mom for sure um

your parents yeah my parents both of our parents have been really supportive through the whole process we we really didn't have you know i know a lot of people that go through the debt-free journey they have some naysayers we really didn't we had everybody was so proud of us on board with it so that helped so much my mom and dad i mean my dad would would text me or message me every

so often how much longer how much longer i'm like we're getting there we're working on it i'd love to ask both of you how is your relationship grown when you've come together so intensely

on such a big goal and work so hard how is your relationship your marriage grown

i'd say it's definitely grown a lot closer we've always you know had a great relationship but uh it's just a lot of give and take and a lot of working together and this has definitely helped to help strengthen that i feel like i mean i think it's helped us a lot because we've been able to we knew we were putting in an equal effort you know nobody

we didn't give up on each other we didn't you know as many times as we wanted to say okay well let's go buy this it's like no i mean if if you don't get something then i'm not going to get something so i think that really really helped you know it helped strengthen our relationship it helped us keep us motivated so what are you dreaming about they're hearing that people are hearing

this story they're watching this on youtube what are you dreaming about now that you're on the other side of this as a couple um well we eventually want to have kids so that'll be you know we wanted to kind of get out of debt to do that but our most reachable dream right now we

need to fix our shower so that's what we're saving for now that's our dream all right we'll take the little dreams that's good that's good that's a good first step well done you guys very well done

your impressive young rock stars yeah you got a bright future ahead of you you know how to work together and you know how to work and uh and you know how to execute and lay out a plan and execute on it you can do that with any part of your life now and you'll be able to do this for the rest of your lives absolutely very well done excellent excellent work new grooves are in your brain

you are ready to rock we got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires that is the next chapter for you and uh let's count it down i love it 102

000 paid off in two years making 75 to

115 a lot of work jonathan and rachel

bowling green kentucky count it down let's hear a debt-free scream all right [Applause]

thank you well done you guys we're so

proud of you excellent you know we had some uh friends over for dinner the other night a couple two couples and we were telling old stories from when we were that age because that's the age we were when we were bankrupt and uh the guys like one of the one of the men sitting there was quizzing sharon he was doing the interview routine right and uh getting her side of

the story yeah because everybody everybody hears my side of the story and sharon is great people don't realize how fun she is when she answers questions she's like oh is the yellow pad

and he said what do you mean she said well when we we make a we every night we sat down with this stupid yellow pad and wrote out a plan of what we were going to do this week next week and what we're going to do 10 years from now and she said we kept writing that yellow pad and we kept writing that yellow pad and we were

you know the way we got through bankruptcy and the way we rebuilt our lives was with a freaking plan and doing it together and it's a yellow pad and you know she can see it in her head and i could see sit i remember that little oak table we're sitting that little oak pedestal table and we're sitting there with that yellow pad going okay next thing's fixed

the shower that's what made me think of it you know it's stuff like that the first thing you know you know before you start talking about being a millionaire you fix the shower that's the truth i thought it was a great answer because that's the show's the sacrifice yeah they literally rice and beans working themselves no this is awesome look great great couple because that's exactly what

we did we had you know we had to fix the roof we had to fix the heat in there dad gum air conditioner was out you and i talked about this a lot how good is that shower gonna feel it not because it's working yeah but because of how hard but if you went down to home depot and put it on home depot card oh it would spit acid on

you yeah it's the truth be like shards of glass it will never work

[Laughter] oh my goodness uh this is the ramsay

show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is

my co-host today as we talk to you about your life and your money the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five scottie is with us in

west palm beach hey scotty how are you i'm

great dave and uh ken both of you thanks for

taking my call here and helping me out sure how can we help i'm a new sole

proprietor and i set up my business checking and savings account good but um the bank named both of them

as my dba and i was under the impression from you that that should have like you know xyz corp tax savings account or

something to that uh effect oh no no it doesn't have to be named to that by the bank you just gotta nickname it that on the file oh

okay because i didn't want you know the irs to say well you have a checking name for you and you have a savings name no no the irs the irs never sees any of that all we're trying to do is make sure you set aside money out of your profits for taxes so you can pay your quarterly estimates and you just need a savings account to do that

and by that i mean a separate savings account that you're not saving for something else in and so you accidentally spend your tax money when you buy the something else right and that's what i've done yeah they're totally separate so then the next the last question is after i take that 25 out since i'm just a sole proprietor what's the best way to pay myself or just off

the the business the the debit card or or do i really need to set up with a payroll company no you don't need a payroll company you just write a check out of your account so you're you're a startup one-man show

right yeah yes sir okay what kind of business are you doing what are you doing i'm starting a small messenger of courier service okay cool so you get some money in and you throw it into the checking account when you get ready to bring some money out of that checking account home you set 25 of that

amount over into that savings and the other 75 percent comes out in just a personal check written to you

okay out of my business account yeah all right so you take your business account there's a thousand dollars in there that you want to bring some home out of that business account and pay some bills or eat and some stuff like that then you would write a 250 dollar check in to save and move it over to that savings account you'd write a 750 dollar check and take it home right now does it

strictly have to be a check it couldn't be did you say it could be anything but if you you know however you're going to do it i mean if you use how are you going to transfer you could just do a transfer if it's inside you know on your website but but just always keep that 75-25 rule going because in effect you are withholding like your employer withholds on

you they hold money out for taxes and that's what we're doing with that 25 going over into savings right and pay that quick and then that becomes my quarterly exactly and that becomes and that becomes the equivalent of a payroll company doing withholding that's why you don't need a payroll company at this stage fantastic i wouldn't screw with the payroll company until you have employees got it

and then it's then it's worth it using one to not have to mess with the irs calculations for all the employees which will drive you freaking bananas that's another story though yeah that's thank goodness very well you have listened to some of the entree leadership materials very carefully scotty and you've done a great job with that so ken uh the reason we've instructed people to do what scotty's doing that are opening solopreneur things is

the number one cause of small business failure especially a solopreneur crashing is cash flow problems cash flow problems mean you don't have any money why don't you have any money because you didn't pay your taxes when you get behind the irs or you go into a bunch of debt yeah and

so what we've instructed here is this is a situation we didn't get into this part of the conversation but if this is a side hustle for a while you know if that's the situation and you have a day job then i would just keep loading up that bank account and and until it can until you're paying yourself something that you really can use uh just get that company healthy in his situation where it may feel like he's doing this full-time uh and giving it a go uh having that tax and pulling that aside and being disciplined there that's going to help you tremendously as you learn the ropes of this because the first time you start a company you realize there are tax benefits get yourself a great ramsey tax advisory and get somebody who really knows what they're doing to make sure that you're protecting yourself because people don't realize when they work for a regular company where people pull all this out they just don't think about it they see the number anything that's a 1099.

it was just the sea it was pretty good i messed it up okay but it's somebody's name it's important no no i've i've gotten aerosol and

that's great well i didn't do that yeah all right how can we help i have a predicament i'm in the middle of a divorce um i get to keep the house my girls are

staying with me um one's 19 the other one is 17. there's

no alimony you transport anything into the equation the house is paid in full and i am going to pay him out

200 200 000 so my question is

whether i take out a loan to pay him

that amount or my attorney indicated i

could take out penalty free that money for my 401k i

don't know what to do which option would be better lose the interest on my 401k by doing that or

have this other language without the uncertainty of me now being had a household and having your income all the bails and everything um when how about 120

okay well i i hate how you got here

i hate how you got here but if you call me up and set up a 200 000 mortgage on a 15-year fixed rate and i make 120 000 a year and i got two teenagers i wouldn't be panicked hearing that

but i don't i don't like how we got here obviously you don't either it's been painful exactly um i'm just you know i've always

had the cushion of having him as a backup um but me now

being this whole hit a household yeah how old are you that free would give me 50.

okay so i mean if you take out a 15-year mortgage of 65 the house is paid for or sooner if you pay it off early right

yeah and as the kids grow and move out

you know you're going to have more margin and room in your budget to throw serious money at this house and get it paid off early so yeah i think you take out a 15-year fixed rate mortgage

okay and don't listen to your attorney financial advice she's not very smart

no it was just because my i don't you

know coming into having all this obligation now on me and the responsibility um i wasn't if you told me you made 70 000 i'd be telling you to sell the house you understand that okay yeah yeah definitely afford to live there because of this horrible situation you've gone through i'm so sorry

so right thank you no fun at all how long were you married

22 years how you doing

hanging in there sounds like it

yeah here's what we're going to do i want you to go through ramsey plus for a year i'm going to pay for it which puts you into financial peace university and puts you into every dollar premium and shows you how to handle money because somebody needs to give you a hug right now and that's me and ken okay thank you so much i appreciate it

and i appreciate this advice i've been one day debating one option one day debating the other and i'm just trying to figure out long term what would be the best well the problem is none of these options are wonderful because of a less than wonderful situation yeah and so it's it's not good but you're gonna get through it and we're going to show you how we'll walk with you kiddo i'm sorry

that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your

questions about your life your money and with ken here especially your career yeah looking for jobs uh thinking about telling the boss to take this job and well ken can help you yeah and uh little johnny paycheck reference there just gotta brought that in there it looks like that that's a good idea what a great song yeah it's a classic bunch of young people need you to finish that line that's

the song is take this job and shove it yeah and we're trying to help you do that don't jump don't jump absolutely find the right job keep paying off debt you don't have to go backwards in your debt snowball you can actually pursue work you've always wanted to do and not stop the baby steps there you go we get that question a lot which is a it's a natural question i'll tell

you how phone number eight eight two five five two two five

johnny is with us in san antonio hi johnny how are you hey doing great guys how are you doing better than we deserve what's up great thanks for taking my call so i'm uh in my mid to late 60s and i'm thinking about retiring soon and i want to know i've got some money to say in savings and i wanted to know if it's better to put it towards the mortgage or do some kind of investments ira or and if you have an elp in san antonio you would recommend my income is 75 annual

my wife's social security is about 850 a month um we have investments of

we have a fixed annuity of around 40 k

and then ira my wife has an ira of 16k

so that's a total of 56.

cool mortgage is 238 uh

on a 2.75 30 year fixed and we're four

years into it good for you well as you probably have heard if you listen for more than about three minutes we talk about the baby steps all the time which is the clear path to wealth and uh the idea being we're out of debt so you're out of debt everything but your house right right cards are paid for and the house is the only thing and you have your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses in place your rainy day fund right correct good yeah

and in savings right now i've got 33k and i'm getting another 5 000 bonus good uh we do have 5k allocated for a new range

that we need to replace that's the only major your next goal is continue putting 15 of your household income into retirement and to continue to build your nest egg and let's get this house paid off that's baby steps four and six and so lean into that house and let's get that thing finished off how much you said you got oh 200 and something on it right yeah 230 paint yeah so let's uh and that becomes

a big goal because if by the time you quit work if you have a really nice nest egg and a paid for house you have a very stable situation if when you retire yourself a home mortgage it's destabilizing it's less than stable because you've got that stinking payment laying there staring at you and uh it changes the last 30 years of

your life to live in a paid for house dramatically so well done you're on your way tamron is in new york city hey tamron welcome to the ramsey show

thank you so much for having me how are you doing today better than i deserve how can we help

i am calling i recently i have a question that relates to college and when

it is okay or sensible to

derail the plan and borrow for college

my husband and i we actually didn't even

discover your system until during the pandemic

and we've paid down a lot of debt we sold a rental property um set up our emergency fund wonderful we made a lot of progress in one year

well selling the selling the rental property gave us a large sum and we're blessed to have terrific careers but my oldest son is a senior in high

school this year and last year he expressed an interest that his dream school was a prestigious private university that's

around here i graduated law school from there myself so um tugged at my heart and i was

supportive of him that if he did everything that was necessary and got the grades and kept everything up as long as he could get scholarships and aid and the out-of-pocket expenses for us was less than 25 000 a year that

we could afford to pay cash through the school's payment plan and that he could go there my sophomore

however he had some trouble

when he started high school last year and he was getting into trouble and he was making poor decisions and

then when they closed the schools down he kind of continued to go down a scary

path from our perspective and he asked us if he could go away to a boarding school to a military school that's not too far from where we live and seeing that that was best for him we immediately in december agreed and enrolled him and sent him but i'm now paying 2500 a month for him to go to school

and our budget only has

after all of the bills and essentials

like food and you know clothing allows and haircuts like really the full budget only has about four thousand dollars to spare in it what's your household in i don't know um

right now we're at about 240

and i will be wrapping up my um clerkship my post law school clerkship so i would expect that next year

it'll be um closer to 300 if not over

300 which will give you the money to send the other one mm-hmm yeah and that's why i was there's not a plan where i dig back and forth to answer your earlier question there's not a plan where i put you into student loans okay there's two options here one is we figure this out or junior picks a different school okay and his future is not ruined based on that and pause listen pause is doesn't mean

never doesn't mean stop it's he could do his first year somewhere else in three years three through four yeah uh or two through four at the at the uh dream prestige school again if he lines up all the scholarships and it's 25 000 out of pocket with no student loans he can also work towards this you know i mean he understands what's going on in the family

and assuming you guys are there's some harmony there and he's as healthy as an 18 17 eight year old can be about his brother's situation he can work and kind of help out you know with this process as well and say hey here's where i think this is a family meeting i think you sit him down he says he knows what's going on and just say hey here's where

we are this is reality student loans is not an option we're not going to do that that's what dad and i have been doing you've seen us getting out of debt bring him into the bigger picture and say hey life happens sometimes this is a you know it's not fair it's right it's sad and you didn't do anything wrong uh and yet it's affecting you but still

it is affecting you and so here's what we're going to do uh let's pretend that you're you lost your job and you you couldn't send him to that school you'd have the same conversation and it wouldn't be his fault you know you would have lost your job and he would have to deal with that kids kids can deal with this so hold on we're going to send

you a copy of anthony's book debt-free degree i want you all to read that as a family and i want you to commit to working some kind of a cash flow game plan to some school that you pay cash for

this is the ramsey show

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i know what it feels like to think you're never going to be able to save money [Music] i know what it feels like to think you're never going to get out of debt but you can actually do it and we can show you how it's what we do inside of ramsey plus ramsey plus is our step-by-step plan that gets you quick wins so you can make faster progress on your debt and once that debt's gone for good you get more money back in your pocket

the best part is you can try it for free once you become a member you'll also get benefits like the federal classic e-file with ramsey smart

tax free included the audiobook of

rachel cruz's brand new bestseller know yourself know your money free included and of course financial

peace university and of course every dollar premium version and of course you're going to finally get your money under control and we're going to show you exactly how to do that

you can try it for free but before before becoming a member just go to daveramsey.com ramseyplus and check out the free trial

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riverside california is on the line ken

is calling hi ken how are you hey hi dave hi ken thanks for taking my

call sure how can we help so it's going to

start off sounding like a sob story it's going to turn out with a good ending i've i've actually become debt free

went through a disability thing with with a failed back surgery turning 53 next week but dave i've done fpu coordinating multiple times i'm just here to tell you as everybody does that your principles work the baby steps work and if i can do it anybody can when i went from being you know high on the hog owning a successful business to disabled i lost a lot but

i didn't lose hope and i kept plugging away i kept you know doing the fpu coordinating even after all that and they've i've counseled people i've helped people out the principles work obviously i enjoy helping people here's my question i won't ramble on too long i'm looking at the coaching program

i've always done financial coaching as a ministry though i've never charged for it and turning 53 next week i'm getting up there i am disabled my income is only just under 2 000 a month here in california which being debt free mortgage and everything is a good thing i'm just wondering with ken there you know with the career and everything else is it a good idea for someone in my situation to save up might take me six months to a year to do

it to get that certification to do it as a ministry well uh ministry or would you charge for it when you say ministry what does that mean i've never charged i've always just done the financial coaching for free it's just something that i've enjoyed giving back doing i really feel like with my story it's very relatable a lot of people feel like wow anybody can and stay positive

you know yeah well look when somebody asks me is this a good career move i walk them through the sweet spot analogy which is very simple our creator gave people talent things you do well and you're supposed to use those as tools to do work that you love that fires you up when you think about it when you do it and then allows you to accomplish to produce results that mean something to

you we know that this means something to you so the question is if i talk to everybody that knows you can when they say that you're a good communicator yes yes people are calling me all the time i know i'm helping people in my family right now that's right and you're good at instruction which is what it takes to be a good coach communication and you got to be good at communication

you got to be good at instruction you got to have a heart for people you have all three of those so the answer is yeah this is a good move i i would just challenge you i have no problem with you doing it uh pro bono or as a ministry

uh but i just sit here and look at your situation and i think you could uh because there's no financial pressure on you to make money as a financial coach that's a good thing because this takes time to build this this is a one-to-one we build one client at a time um i just wonder why you wouldn't eventually charge because our our team can not only train

you how to be a really great coach but how to build your business are you opposed to it no no i just never have i've done hundreds of appointments you know and i i think you're i think you're going to do some of both if i'm you uh-huh yeah i think you're going to start charging for some and then occasionally you're going to see someone you just need to help

and you just want to do that and you just want to give them a leg up and you want to get them started but the the ramsey preferred coaches who have gone through all of the training and then that we send leads to some of them are making pretty substantial incomes the top ones are and so let's just pretend let's just say you made a hundred thousand dollars a year doing

this for fun uh then you could also give away a bunch of your services as well right sure sure yeah

there's no reason you can't do both so here's what we're going to do i'm going to pay for it i want you to go through the time that's great you need to go through the training oh my gosh seriously you've earned it you you're the man i mean you've got listen having a testimony is a wonderful thing getting one's a pain in the butt the truth and

you have been through that's the truth and so yeah i want you to go through the training is something i don't usually give away it's a pretty expensive item but uh madison pick up and we'll get him through the first series of courses i you can talk to the coaching team and figure out what what the proper way to get him started on this is a and uh just tell them

i said this is it this one's a gift on me that's so cool you know see i got you know what you see what i just did there it's what i told him to do yeah go make a bunch of money yep and give some away give some of it away yeah because he's going to be in a situation where he can uh he can do financial coaching for somebody who maybe is going through something

he went through yeah a physical injury that rocks your world wow and i got to tell you man it's dad gum pain and

medical bills are we seeing them in our counseling office our coaching offices every day all across america yeah it's a it's a real real thing without a doubt jean is with us in colorado springs hi gene welcome to the ramsey show

hi thank you so much for taking my call

without going into all the glory details

um my husband and i have separate accounts um we just put the house in both our names i have no debt he already had a home equity loan on the house plus a car loan now he wants to borrow

more money to buy some firearms

and with the hosting in both our names

it's joint tennis not survivorship i would

have to find some papers to say i could

consent to him getting a lien on the house should i do it to buy guns

yes how old are you guys

i'm 68 and he's 76. and how long have

you been married over 15 years okay i have a huge gun

collection i'm a gun guy i can't possibly imagine borrowing on my house to buy a freaking gun

i'm a gun guy i'm your husband okay i would i would be on his side but i can't possibly imagine what what gun purchase there could be that justifies borrowing on your personal home to buy it what is he buying a tank no

they're um single shot high wall

low wall whatever um and

he went to us he went to a gun shop and

they had these great deals and he knows he could get a lot of money off selling them

yeah he doesn't need to get in the firearms business at 76 years old by borrowing on his home

no i i don't think this is a good plan and if he called me i would tell him not to do it and so i'm going to tell you not to allow your home to be done because when this all goes out sideways and he can't sell these guns uh for whatever reason as an individual

or a collector or whatever he's getting into here i can't tell what the flip he's getting into but uh it must be in a very expensive collectible gun of some kind of sound it sounds like he got a great deal he thinks oh i can buy this now hold on from a gun shop he's going to steal it from a gun shop yeah like they're going to give him a deal

so he can make a lot on it i got questions yeah i'm thinking ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding warning warning warning because that's what retailers are known for dave yeah they're known for giving things away at cheap so you can make more money on it later yeah gun shops are known for not having no idea the value of the guns in their shops we're being sarcastic your husband's

plan sucks don't get into debt to do it

and that's from a couple of gun guys oh my gosh wow can't believe i told somebody not buy a gun i know just happened right here yeah that's harder than telling them not by a boat wow this is the ramsey show

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today's question comes from amy nebraska she writes in i have a job interview coming up for an entry level position as an assistant manager for a coffee chain if salary is not brought up by my interviewer when is the best time for me to ask about it you ask about it when they offer you the job because presumably not always but presumably when they offer you the job amy they're going to tell

you what they are offering the job at as an hourly rate and at that point then you can discuss that but i would not ask about it early on i always tell people dave in the interview process uh you want to convince that hiring manager that you will help them win we've got to remember that they're people too and they're looking for somebody that's going to help them win

and so there will come a time in this particular question where uh the uh the hourly rate the salary whatever that is is going to come up completely through the interview and you're walking out of your first interview and you still have no idea what the pay is you don't ask well

fair question but in this situation um you can you have a good idea what an hourly rate is going to be at a coffee shop you have a pretty good idea and you can find that out pretty easily you have a ballpark range i mean it's not going to be something like seven eight nine dollars an hour you're probably going to be in that low range would be 10 with

the minimum wage politicizing that's going on right now you're probably going to be in that 12 to 15 an hour so you shouldn't walk into an interview like that going i have no idea what i can and can't do so it's a good point to bring up but you have to have an eye an eye on the type of work and do your homework prior to the job that's what

i teach you can find out what people are paying you can find out if it's a good coffee shop to work at before you ever show up so i agree with the general sentiment that you would not uh if someone i teach our guys here in

recruiting if they lead with what do you pay what are the benefits just end the interview yeah totally agree because they're here for what they can take not what they can give yeah and so it's over yeah and so that's the other end of that sentiment right uh uh but i i would be perfectly

careful at the end of the interview if nothing has been brought up to start with that's a really sucky interviewer that does not cover some of what's going on that is true that is true but uh if that's the case

uh you get to the end of it and just go hey i really appreciate our time our conversation i think i can add value here if this were to work out what is the general yeah i'm playing with that i'm fine with that what's the range i'm fine with it or something like that yes just so i kind of so i kind of know what to anticipate

and then you can go because that you may want to rule them out yes you may not want to go through three interviews and get hired for half of what you think you're going to get well you're not going to go through three interviews for an hourly wage like this for an actual job so i that is good context that i agree with my point is this

when you're going for an entry level position you need to have already done your homework on that place do they treat people like they're just robots and soulless people and they're just moving burn and churn through this do some homework find out is this a great place to work you can do that very easily it's not difficult with all the resources we have in this world so with that being

the context i'm always wanting people to show up at that interview and and absolutely blow them away so that they go they want you and the time comes that's good practice for a real job it is because you're not going to bring up salary you're going to bring that up in the first time you better not i mean it's bad i mean i had a young guy i'll never forget one of

the way back i mean we had 10 people and we had this young guy i ran into him i was speaking to church he came up he was real enthusiastic afterwards i was talking to him for 20 minutes and i said you know he said are you you're hiring for anything i said yeah yeah and he came over and he sat down

it was so disappointing because he was such a rock star in so many ways but the first thing out of his mouth is okay what's this pay yeah and what are your benefits packaging it makes me cringe-hearing it's because because he you know he instantly revealed his heart yes which is i'm here to take rather than to add yes and i can't come into the business i own with that attitude yeah i'm here to what can

i take versus what can i add you better put some water in the bucket or there'll be no water in the bucket and remember for entry-level jobs you're up against a lot of people it's a factory so i want you to put your best foot forward i'm not i like what you said i'd be okay with that but i want you to win the position when they're trusting confidence

when they offer it then you say you're probably going to do that in that first interview yeah because to your point to your point they're not going to do six interviews like and they're shuffling people through and uh so you wanna be classy you know did you fog up the mirror okay yeah well in some places that's the case yeah if yeah you can get higher smiles pass

the drug test and fog up a mirror yes you don't even have to smile i can prove that by some of the people that serve coffee so i'm just telling you

bad experience dave oh i won't bring up

a brand new dart sierra in orlando

hey sierra how are you i'm well good

afternoon how are you guys better than we deserve how can we help

i have a question about taxes

um this is the first year that i will be doing mostly contract work i worked as a pa a physician assistant

and i reached out to i think two elps

or three and i got kind of three different answers and i'm just confused

one of them recommended that i open an llc no and then pay myself no

okay i didn't like it the other one said

yes open the llc pay your own payroll

company no but they're wanting money monthly and the third said just pay 25 every three months

to the irs ding ding ding there's your answer that's the one you want okay yeah you what i would tell you to do is just open a separate checking account in your social security number it's a dba doing business ask and you have a little separate business account and you put all of your income into that business account when you want to pull money out of that

and take it home to buy things at home or pay bills at home or pay debt at home or whatever you'd hold back 25 over into a separate savings account to pay your quarterly estimates and your problem unless you make over a hundred thousand dollars a year 25 will cover it yes it's probably between

eight to ten grand a month um unfortunately there is an llc now open that's okay it's not the end of the world if you want to run it through that now that you did it that's okay because it'll have its own ein number and you just run it through that you can but it serves exactly the same purpose you just added the paperwork and the expense of

the llc to the process and now you've also added a new tax return to the process because you get the file tax return on the llc so you get to file a tax return plus the llc file files one so you've i want to ask you about that day for her shouldn't she just shut that down then why go through all those extra steps i mean i know

she opened it she paid money probably for somebody else yeah you know it's just not that big it's not worth it it's just it's a hassle because you got one extra tax return yeah but um yeah you know you're gonna have a schedule c on your uh personal return if you don't do the llc so you've got some forms to fill out anyway so for taxes so

you know uh it's not the end of the world to do that i definitely would not use a payroll company to pay yourself that's nightmarish uh but uh

i i don't recommend solopreneurs unless they have lots of money an llc is not there for

tax purposes it's there for risk management it's there for if that company gets sued you don't want to be the individual that owns it so as an example i actually own absolutely nothing now

i don't own a thing it's all in llc's

in corporations and trusts

and all of my real estate is uh my cars

are even in an llc so if there's a car wreck you can sue the company that owns the cars because that's who owns them i don't know and so you know the liability it's a risk management tool is all it is it's to get the risk down it is not to get taxes off of you so i don't use llc's for tax purposes they don't really serve one in her situation get educated on all those write-offs of being a 1099 or contractor yeah you'd be surprised how much

you can write off now that your good your tax elp would be great for absolutely this is the ramsey show

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our scripture of the day romans 8 18 for i consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us robert hughes said the struggle you're in today is developing the strength you need tomorrow well that's the truth brandon's with us in salt lake city hi brandon how are you

hi i'm doing great how about you guys better than we deserve how can we help wow it's a pleasure to be talking to you both i'm very thankful for the opportunity you guys are at uh to help me out i i'm uh i'm currently

in the job application process i'm a senior in college and

i'm currently i so i've applied to a position that i really really would like for a large corporation but the one problem is i'm trying to be proactive and trying to contact the or anyone a

recruiter just to say hey this is my job application trying to stand out from all these from all these candidates but i can't find a recruiter because there's there's hundreds of them in this company i do have a contact for i'm actually

connected with the person i'd be applying for um on linkedin right but i i'm

i don't know if it would be wrong for me just to jump the whole recruitment process oh yeah and contact them directly oh yeah but ken's going to tell you how to do that yeah yeah yeah well what do you what are you worried about if you reach out to them directly you're going to get like they're going to blackball is that what you're talking about yeah kind of like oh

this is annoying he's just he's not following the game and you've already applied you've already applied correct that's correct i applied about a week ago yes yeah well it's a major company so they've got a big big system and they've got a process so you know one way you could go about this that i think would not get you in hot water you've got the person who's hiring linkedin information

so you're pretty resourceful young man i do a handwritten note just something simple hey just want to let you know i've applied recently and uh love the company if i ever get the opportunity to work here here's why i'd want to work here really short sweet yeah let me give you another line to enter into that okay yeah go ahead and just in that note go hey

and there's a fine line between showing initiative and being just weird i want to be right near that line he acknowledged that you've done some homework yeah but i'm okay with that because a handwritten note is not creepy no you find their email and they're wondering how in the world you get that but if i read that and i'm the executive on the other side i'm gonna go that's funny yes

i like this i love that dave that's a great suggestion very very good i think the handwritten note is the way i would go but now what i would really work on is through all of your contacts yeah here we go here this is the proximity principle and we're looking at your web of connections we know from sociology research that the number one way to get jobs is through acquaintances

so get outside of your family and friends that's that close personal network picture spiderweb we're gonna go out okay so now we're looking at everybody we know on social media how many people you think they know so let's just i'm using this example let's say you got 500 friends on facebook well how many friends do each of those 500 500 have and you've got to get aggressive

there and just ask for people to help you don't be weird does anybody know anybody that works at x boom i'm applying i've already applied a company xyz do you know anybody that works there and let's see what that yields and then i would go to the personal context outside of social media same deal reach out to everybody you know hey i just want a shot at an interview that's not asking too much that's not creepy that's not arrogant that shows desire

and you'd be surprised what that will yield but you got to really work hard um and and then let the chips fall where they fall on the official submission because you're going to go through the system i'd have you look at the ken coleman resume guide uh we've got six templates in addition to the free one at the resume guide uh at my website kencoleman.com check that out submit

the resume that way you know stand out let's just give it to him it's it doesn't yeah that's free madison oh matt that was six templates give him the six templates yeah give him the six templates free and use those to reach in yeah and uh then and he's also if you'll read the stuff at the downloads that are free at kingcoleman.com it'll show you how to build

the letter to getting contact now i'll add one other thing to ken's system which ken system is flawless but it's almost an old sales technique i used to use if you do get an actual interview

during the interview ask

when you should follow up and set an appointment for the follow-up love that that way you're not pestering it that way you're just following through on what you said and they said well you know we'll know in a couple of weeks would it be okay if i contacted you on friday the 14th and they will say yes

and then when you call on friday the 14th they go yes brandon said he was going to call he called that's a good sign for him but also then you're not trying to chase somebody in phone tag or you're not trying to you know you're not worried that you're pestering them on a follow-up yeah because the follow-up is set you schedule your follow-up and then it's not pestering it's expected

then let it go i mean one of the worst things you can do is just keep emailing somebody look if they want you trust me they're going to get back to you do a great job do your best job in the interview do a follow-up we have a touch point timeline free guy get six other places to go after while you're going after this that's right don't sit around

and wait good idea yeah so hold on

madison will pick up and she'll get you those templates and a copy of ken's book the proximity principle we're going to set you up man for going to get the job you want and listen i need you to call ken coleman on his show uh and let him know if you get this job using these techniques i want to hear the story yeah we get a lot of fun emails

this stuff really does work and here's the other thing you know if it doesn't work let's let's let's really figure out how to open up our connections because what people don't know dave is is that they know everybody they already need to know i know that seems intimidating it's the one degree of separation it really is yeah it's when i was a kid we played this thing called

the match game you got grandkids now yeah but they still have the matches we played with our kids oh good and and so it's this idea of what you just start turning over the tiles and we go okay i saw an elephant here i'm looking for another elephant that's the it's the simplicity of i've got to be diligent i know everybody i need to know i got to keep talking about

it i got to keep asking people will help if we ask the right way yeah that's exactly right and

don't folks that are out there okay there's a lot of people looking for jobs and ken can coach you on this you can get all the details you need ramsey solutions will hire 340 people this year if we meet our hiring goals

however we will have 25 000

applications come in if you simply fill

out an application and that's all you ever do there is a high probability that we will

have missed out on hiring you it's true might as well play the lottery while you're doing that it's really a long shot in today's world with so many people applying for so this thing of i filled out a hundred thousand applications on monster.com and not on one call me back well no crap not a one did you know or i used ziprecruiter and did all this multiple filings at one time and zip recruiter is great we advertise for them yeah but but you cannot just mass

you know just throw enough mud against the wall to see if something sticks you've got to find that singular connective spot with someone that knows someone that knows someone inside and uh you know joe's friend works over there and joe's friend's name's sally and sally is gonna get you know at least have a connectivity point well here's another thing i got an email at the last break that a friend of mine had sent a lady who wants to work here right

and send her and i send him over to hr sure and that doesn't mean she's going to get hired but she's not in the stack anymore oh no she's at the top she's atop the pocket well she she maybe at the top of the wrong pile right you know but she's in well she's getting it look she's not gonna she's getting a look that's the issue there's gonna be a real consideration chances go up

when we get interviews we're trying to get an interview one thing we get all the time uh on the on the ken coleman show dave is people say okay ken i did what you said i really truly don't have a connection to somebody in the company and so the next best thing is with the resume guide and the resume templates at kencombo.com we have flipped our resume

and the hrc could you send that to that guy and only but here's what yeah absolutely you can reach out but what we've done in our resume and our hr team has worked with me on this we've got a world-class hr team at ramsey solutions the top of our resume dave says who i know so if you don't have a connection to somebody in the company let's use ramsey solutions example

then maybe you should get a great endorsement from somebody who is a world-class uh financial

advisor smart investor pro who we may not know personally but they're in our network or if you're going into technology get a great reference from somebody who's a big shot in that field it'll make them go huh yep they look at you that puts this hour

of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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## 196. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 24, 2022)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where that is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

open phones this hour the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five you can get in if you dial at this moment that's triple eight eight two five five two two five dr john delaney ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the dr john deloney show is my co-host today open phones

again at triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna be talking about your relationships talk about mental health about jobs about career

about money we're gonna talk about you right in front of you so john you and i were actually talking earlier this morning in a meeting and um discussing things around your new book coming out um that with all the wackiness happening in the world

that i mean your book and some of the materials that you're putting out are all about dealing with your past um own your past change your futures the title the new book but this idea that that you know things that have happened to me as an individual or to you guys out there as an individual the trauma that you experienced during covid or the trauma experience from family or the trauma you experienced from a job or whatever trauma wherever it was that's kind of like one set of

anxiety-inducing things you call them bricks in the backpack right and then there's a whole other set of anxiety-inducing things and both of these affect money they affect job they affect marriage because it affects mental health basically uh but the anxiety-inducing trauma type things are um i mean stuff like russia and ukraine uh stuff like

out of control inflation used cars are going up all right which makes me think i'm in a cartoon or something i mean instead of real life and this must be a pixar movie i mean how to use cars go up it's impossible and uh you know uh supply

chain stuff is just bizarre uh just trying to get something purchased and get it shipped to you uh is crazy so

people are experiencing i guess environmental type things that are impacting us the new negative news we'll just call it and then you've got things that are individual to you in your life that makes sense absolutely two different buckets how do you deal with those different buckets you know i was on an interview yesterday and talking about this exact thing and what i told the the guy was man

i woke i tell people for a living to get off your devices that's that's one of my cornerstone messages get off your devices and be with the real people and i found myself yesterday got up at 5am to go exercise and do my morning routine like i always do and the first thing i did was pulled out my phone to see if putin had invaded and instead of

looking at it and seeing there's tension and closing it and going about my day i sat there and sat there went to this new site and this new site this new site so alice went down the rabbit hole huh yes and i missed my workout i missed everything i grabbed coffee and i was able to high-five my kids and head out the door instead of here's the thing

you know what i can control about what putin's doing zero nothing there's not a thing i can do about that but no one else can either by the way what i could do was i could have got my exercise in i could have made my wife's coffee and brought it to her because i know that little tiny acts of service when i'm stressed out helps calm me down

i could have written a note to my kids and said hey i got an early morning of media hits i love you guys i miss you i could have done some things that i know bring me peace and bring my anxiety level down instead of fed it and so what i what i tell everybody to do is look at the things in your life you can control

and lean in on those and literally use the off button on some of these things you can check on russia once or twice a day and that's it nothing else is going to change and if it does there's nothing you can do about it right or the inflation or the get your house unless you're on the joint chiefs of staff you don't need to be riding it all day long

you can't ride it all day long and here's the thing because it'll ride you it it will bury you it will bury you my heart rate is up as though america's getting shelled right now and we're not right we're not and so man take care of the people in your area take care of you and i'm not saying stick your head in the sand and avoid it no

this is a worldwide issue we all need to be on uh uh in the know on this but get in the know and then get back out don't go swimming and bathing in the cesspool right get what you need and then get out of there man and then deal with your people in your life yeah the the problem is inputs matter and i mean and if you're incredibly

if all you do is fee and that includes who you hang around with it includes what you read it includes your screen it includes if you're doing social media or you're not doing social media includes podcasts you get off work and you listen to you listen to a murder podcast on the way home just you can get to law order svu right yeah for dinner like you're just feeding yourself

this stuff yeah inputs matter because if you put if all your inputs are crap your brain's crap your brain is terrified all day it's fight or flight all day all day and then a real thing shows up like inflation like you go to the grocery store and you look at your budget and say oh i got to make some choices on meat or vegetables this month that's a real thing that

you need you need space and capacity in your mind and body to be able to handle those issues that is taken up by other fake drama right it's just going to go and go and go and go so you do really need to identify

causes of stress and put them in one of two buckets things i can do something about things i can't that's right things i can't you need to limit the inputs absolutely all day every day just just just stop i had a friend's watching cnn watching fox all day long i think we're i think he's in a rubber room now yeah i mean if that's your only input is a 24-hour news cycle all day long 100 of it is hyped yep exaggerated and

bad yes that's exactly i mean it's just like you know eat i i'm gonna eat chocolate bars all day long 24 7

and then think that's going to work out from a nutrition standpoint i mean you know or whatever negative thing you can come up with to eat but i mean that would gag you if you got past four of them you know but uh it just your mind is gagging that's right and it's important to know you we all should be a little bit heightened right now we should all be anxious right now

this is a big deal right and i'm i'm i'm anxious to see what my government's gonna do to participate or not participate and what my leadership is going to look like all that's true and real and good prices are real the gas i can't even like i have to double take when you drive by a gas station right all that stuff's real and then what can i do about that

i can't fix the gas prices today and so i'm going gonna see it and i'm gonna go man that's that's that stinks i'm gonna have to make some adjustments in my budget with my wife and then i'm gonna go about my day because doubling down on that man it's gonna make me a ball of rage that's gonna affect my kids my wife my family my neighborhood and my work

you got to control the controllables and set the rest of the crap and control the things that aren't controllable that's right that's right that's why they're not called controllable i mean this is not hard yeah and yet we have gotten into this between social media 24-hour news cycle um i mean it used to be you know walter cronkite for 30 minutes in the evening your local news for 30 minutes in

the evening and you had a newspaper some of you don't know what that is you could look it up on the internet but um and that was you know you were stuck with that yeah and a lot of that was hours and hours and hours behind but then you had to go sit down with real humans and you got to have dinner you got the pontification circles well

i think this well i think this you're engaging with real people and a real human would say i think that's dumb i think this and well i think that and you had real interactions and your body actually goes okay we're safe i got a real person right here i got a real person right here we're exchanging ideas and now it's just grenade grenade grenade grenade digital grenade that's right yeah that's right which are about as bad as digital courage yeah wow scary times man scary times

but you have to control the situation you have to control your environment it's uh you're not going to get out of this otherwise that's right dr john deloney ramsey personality dave ramsey the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five [Music]

if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying sixty thousand dollars about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next

get started today at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five

john's brand new book is called own your past change your future it is on pre-sale right now for only twenty dollars and john's got two phds 20 years

of counseling experience packed it into an easy to understand book this book is going to have a positive impact on everyone everyone should read this book

i got to tell you i personally it's changed some of the language i'm using not only with you guys but inside my own head as well and that's just from me reading through the manuscript because it's got my name on the publishing and so i want to know what the flip we were saying before we put it out there and it turns out you know it'll help like a 30 year old that's looking to sharpen their mind

this is not a thing you have to like this is a book for crazy people it's not it's a book for all of us have a little crazy and we all could adjust it a little bit that's right all of us have some things we could polish up and just you know a little more peace a little less anxiety all of us could adjust the way we're looking at certain things

and you give a framework for doing that and that's why i think this book is going to blow up yeah there's a lot of books out there that are scholars talking to scholars and they're fine and they're good and they're important and there's a lot of books out there on what i call way outside the bell curve for some significant mental illness for folks who are practitioners there's almost nothing for folks who are just trying to live life better have a better conversation that's right with yourself that's right have a better conversation with uh your friend

i mean the people you love right you know in our world today we were talking about this before we went on the air um you know the number of times that two people can just sit down and almost enjoy a good argument just because we can have a good discussion because we still love each other we did before we started and after we finished the argument we still think you're wrong

but i still love you of course and but everybody you have to hate everybody and you have to chop off everything in our divisive world out there it's like well you think you you you you you

have a mask or you don't have a mask and so i'm pissed at you for the rest of your life you know i mean it's like people are losing their dadgum minds out well they're gone man and so you know we need some new tools to control ourselves and also to interface with other people and just to walk it back you know what i mean we've laughed internally

and not laughed but we've thought really we look at the number of conversation cards we've sold like is that where we are and the reality is yep that's where we are that we we're starting over kind of like old school you gotta get a thousand bucks let's just start there right that's where we are when it comes to relationships and our mental health right now and let's do

it and let's just stop pretending let's stop walking around the problem let's go right through the middle of it well and and to my knowledge none of our leadership team or publishing team has significant mental health problems right to my knowledge and every one of them were touched including me and informed and given new

tools by reading this book own your past

change your future you know we've taught god's and grandma's ways of handling money for 30 years here at ramsey and john's doing the same thing now god's and grandma's ways of doing relationships doing mental health it is a complex topic but uh people that are smart can take a complex topic and make it simple around here we call it putting the cookies on a shelf where everyone can reach them

so pre-order your copy today at ramseysolutions.com it's 20 bucks you're going to get the audio version of the book the ebook version of the book and you're going to get one month of free weekly therapy sessions

from the fine folks at betterhelp who have come alongside that makes this 20 purchase an unbelievable deal so ramsey

solutions.com and check it out the new book coming out in april get it pre-ordered now to get all the goodies on your past change your future our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is

the number one online retailer of custom window coverings free samples free shipping with the two new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from david in oregon david writes i've been paying the bills but not doing a proper budget since my wife and i got married i thought i could do it

and we coasted up by for about 10 years then kids came time flew by and we accumulated 30 thousand dollars in debt i never made my spouse part of the process and held her off so she didn't have to feel the financial burden she has a quote-unquote feeling that something isn't right when i won't let her see our finances and she's right i recently read one of dave's tweets look at

you using twitter to help people i didn't know that was possible it said if you're in a committed relationship you've got to play with all of your cards face up how do we start over and do it right this time this is a moment this is it one of those cool mirrors a really great question i

love this question so dave in my life when i've i've had several of these in my marriage over 20 years it always starts with me saying we need to have a discussion and i need to i need to invite you into some hard stuff that's going on in my heart mine my actions whatever and i start with i'm sorry i've

been living this way and i haven't brought you along i've left you out i've excluded you whatever the thing is and i want to invite you in to help make this right and she's very right to feel betrayed she's very right or her feelings are going to be her feelings but it starts with somebody turning the lights on turn the music off and saying i was wrong

and i'm sorry let's start here yeah and i got to tell you that i mean i've walked couples through this and sometimes i played marriage counselor for five minutes in the middle of a coaching session on money uh in this and if he will just i got 99 percent of

the time if if dude you got the perfect

heart she's got the right heart actually both of you do for this for this to be successful and so i would just say look i have screwed this up i'm sorry the reason i screwed it up was it started off with i was just going to take care of it i was going to man up so you didn't have to worry about it and then it got out of control and i was ashamed that i didn't do it right and that caused me to even become

more guarded of it and i should have just brought the whole thing to you and we should have worked on it together and i really screwed up but i screwed up because i was trying to be the man and carry this for you and that's not the right way to be a man by the way and i was trying and then when it fell apart and i couldn't do it then i was ashamed of myself and i didn't want to didn't want to reveal to you that i had screwed up because i felt i felt stupid and so if he just says that which is what he said right but if he just says that to her she's going to be really forgiving oh man and this usually when i see a couple like this there's something underneath it which there's something about the way they communicate in this home that she doesn't like so if this is my wife she will not say hey i've got a feeling she will insert herself into this process right so there's something about it could be that they've been married five years and you've been married 20.

it's going very similar here it's different now yeah after 40 years you know we we kind of cut through the bull you know so those one hour conversations are six six seconds yeah it's like not i have a feeling it's like ah you're scheming and scamming what the crap's going on but something here is going to have to change in how they do because this isn't just going to show up money it's going to show up with kids it's going to show clever

let's let's come up with a new way of doing business of loving each other and here here's the lesson that you get out of this and you learn it through the money lens and it will affect your whole marriage to your point and the lesson that you get out of it that's so beautiful is this that everything you do is going to be better when you do

it together right instead of you trying to give her the gift of her not having to worry right that is not a real gift and every time that's a falsehood have a feeling uh hey something's not right develop a language that y'all can ask each other that question yeah it just does away with it right right away just goes away it's poof you deal with it you move on oh

and by the way this also tells us that your wife has really really good intuition yep and so the next time she has a feeling about the car salesman but you think you want to buy the truck anyway you need to get off the lot yep because her feelings are probably pretty intuitive probably pretty accurate yeah it might be god speaking through her i've learned that the hard way yeah

if sharon says sharon's southern so she says she it's a seven syllable word i got a bad feeling and if she gets a bad feeling and i go against it cost me 10 grand at least i just quit doing it i just don't go against those feelings they're expensive i've been wrong almost every single time i just i mean we have to get on the same page

and i i don't violate that i mean i'll question her i'm like was it last night's pizza i mean why are you having a feeling but but she's like no no this guy i just think he's a bad guy i don't know what it is but i can't put my finger on it but i got a bad feeling oh geez we're getting away from that guy oh he's playing asap gonna find out later what happened with him

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let's

still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry

it's worth it

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welcome back we're glad you're here america dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money joe is in st louis hey joe welcome to the ramsay show hey dr john and dave thanks for taking my question i'll try to make it brief we are in baby step five thanks to you guys's plan good for you um and we did

it uh we kind of did like a 3b to save for my car i've got an old corolla and it's still running great would it be okay to take some of that money and then max out um our roth iras for the year

and then kind of rebuild that 3d backup just because the market's down i figure it's probably a good time to invest oh i think so you would be putting in over 15 percent uh into our rocks if you are if you put this into retirement you're currently putting 15 at baby step 4 already into your retirement are you not yes we are but right now we're kind of doing

it we just drafted out monthly oh you're gonna put a lump sum in it right now yeah as long as the total for the year is not more than 15 of your income that'll be fine yes yes that's correct okay but if you're if you're saying should i invest more into retirement than 15 of my income while i still have a mortgage no i would not tell

you to do that no yeah we just have the money for the car but the corolla just keeps going so we were just uh wondering if we could do we've been there and it's a crummy time to buy a car yeah because they're outrageously priced right now so um you know i mean you can get a car but if you and sometimes people need a car right now

but if you just you got a car

that's working and you don't have to move it so uh what happens if the corolla lays down what are we going to do uh well like we still have uh enough to buy something that would work and if we needed to i guess take an extra two or three grand out of the emergency fund we could do that yeah then as long as you're not over 15

you got you kind of thought through the what ifs then yeah i'd dive in on it for sure have it have at it bro ah solomon is with us solomon is in new york city hi solomon welcome to the ramsay show hi there dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up so i'll try to keep it short but basically i called the show a couple months back

and you told me that because i'm so young i should just stash away cash uh for now in savings and so now i've been doing that but i'm keeping keeping obviously a couple couple hundred just like in my checking account and i've been recently i got approached by a few people who are collecting for charity besides the ties and i can't help but be a little bit

like the i have a bad feeling when i'm giving them money or not giving them as much as they as i could you know so my question is how do i stop that from happening that feeling yeah um i have never been able to stop it from happening and it doesn't matter how much money i give and how much money i have allocated to give there's always wonderful things that need help wonderful ideas of helping people uh there's a whole lot more places to give that are valid than i'll ever have money yeah that's kind of what

it feels like yeah and so when i kind of get that my wife makes fun of me and she says that's jesus's job that job's taken you're not him you can't solve everything by yourself all you can do is solve what's put in front of you with a reasonable ratio of what you have and then release it because you're not going to be the answer to all

the world's problems in other words neither am i and i have to relearn that because i feel that's the exact same tension i felt it this morning because we have a budget uh an amount laid out that we do giving on our family foundation and uh a thing popped up into my email this morning from my daughter that's the director and and i wanted to do more than

we should because i like the idea of what it was and my wife said nope that's what we're doing and i'm like yep that's what we're doing because we're not jesus it's his job i feel that i feel that same thing i think everybody does so yeah here's the thing you will not become stingy because people that ask this question never become stingy you don't have to worry about being selfish

but what you do have to learn to manage is the tension of you can't solve everything be everywhere have enough money to fix everyone's hurts and if you give yourself into a hole go back to college i used to pick up tabs for people or pick fill their gas up if they look like they needed it but i did it on a credit card right i dug myself a hole thinking

i was being a hero and it didn't work right that you run out of air at some point so make sure you've taken care of yourself you're not good to anybody if you're not taking care of yourself if you're not whole so you know i th there's two things one is you're not a selfish person because selfish people don't ask this question right and when you get more money

you become more of what you already are so you're gonna be okay yeah number one number two you're always going to have attention and you have to release it and say i'm not god that's his job

i'm he's going to put in front of me what i can do and i'm going to do what i can do and not bring harm to my family while i'm helping other families and other people and um and that's the balance of it uh so that that's how i that's how i've done it but i i will tell you that i feel this exact same tension yeah

so uh josiah is with us in omaha hi josiah how are you doing well thanks for taking my call sure what's up so i have a vanguard retirement fund that tracks it's just a mutual fight now you always get confused etfs and mutual funds but it tracks with the you know stock markets and what i was reading is that we're going to enter into a bear market

and um that one article suggested

i invest i do dollar cost averaging um

invest in commodities i was looking at a uh mutual fund that just temporarily did

you read the article that said you're supposed to send it all to dave ramsey or john deloney yeah um because that article is out there no it's not it's not out there but just because you read on the internet doesn't mean it's right yeah matter of fact that probably invalidates it that's true so otherwise i wouldn't be here but it would still be i know i know that in

times of volatile times you know you're not supposed to have knee-jerk emotional reactions exactly but he who he who jumps off a roller coaster in the middle of the ride is he who gets hurt finish the ride my brother exactly finished the ride my brother so continue to invest but i you know what the right question i guess is like the 10 000 millionaires that we studied that became millionaires

the number of them that jumped out of their investments into commodities because they read an article and that made them wealthy when things were scary in the news was precisely zero none of them did that none of them did that they kept investing and they kept investing and they kept investing when it was scary when it was wild when it was fun when it was good when people are smiling

when they're frowning when they're cussing and when they're singing joyful noises all the time they just keep on investing just keep on investing just keep on investing you can call it dollar cost averaging if you want to call it that but that's not the advantage to it the advantage of it is you don't stop investing and you don't change horses in the middle of a flood while you're in

the middle of the stream you're gonna drown no no no no no no and

quit reading stupid butt articles on the internet because it'll cause you to do this stuff oh man a friend that got cancer or he's got a cancer scare yeah may have cancer or may not and um i said listen do not listen the cancer

might get you but i will 100 guarantee you i'm going to kill you if you google and start reading about cancer on the freaking internet because you are going to get bad information a bunch of goobs on there with opinions about tomato seeds or whatever else they dream up and i'm going to pound you if you open your computer and type in the word cancer there is one whenever

i see articles like this i always go to what's the incentive and there's somebody who's got a commodities trading office that makes money on the exchange that looks for precisely folks like you josiah who are trying to pay attention who love their families who are a little bit scared and they say hey come over here come over here and you're going to jump off and you're going to give them your money well

let's do it the other thing is this very very seldom do you actually get conned by a real con man right but you can get conned by an enthusiastic ignoramus and there's a whole lot more of those than there are con maybe you just described social media i did you did one phrase what phrase this is the ramsay show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today as we talk about mental health as we talk about relationships jobs career money it's all right here on the ramsey show by the way we're going to be doing a relationships and mental health theme hour soon which will of course include dr john delony and uh that's so we're going to take questions on in that hour about marriage parenting family friendships boundaries your own mental health anxiety depression all

the things that fall into those categories relationships of all kinds so if you want to be part of that you can go to ramseysolutions.com ask put mental health in the subject line kelly i'll get back to you to schedule you for a call and to be part of that theme or if you have questions about those things you can talk about them today too here at triple eight eight two five five two two five ramsey solutions dot com slash ask put mental health in

the subject line and we'll do a relationships and mental health theme hour together you and me and dr john all

right matthew's in buffalo new york hey matthew how are you oh i've seen better days but i can't complain if i'm being honest how are you doing today better than i deserve sir how can i help better than i deserve to i love hearing that i'm a little nervous um bear with me um i just want to say thank you mr ramsey and dr john you guys have helped me um

so much that you guys won't see the back end of but emotionally spiritually financially i want to thank you guys for all that you do i listen to the youtube channel all the time almost every single day thank you how can we help today sir my question so my question here today is i have made a giant mistake and i've neglected um a couple bills and they've gone to collections

and so well background i'm 19 years old i'm young i'm stupid and i'm glad i'm making a mistake today so i don't have to make it with a bigger mistake later and like i said these have uh bills have gone to collections and they're about up to 800

um and i was wondering if i should call these collections companies and

get these um sorted out through a credit card or

through my debit card because if they go through and um overcharge me and it goes through a credit card it'll be easier to dispute it with the credit card company versus the debit card company i've had issues with both and it's been fixed with the credit card much easier than the debit card and getting my money back so i just want to get your advice and thoughts on what

i should do where i should start and that's it so thanks uh for that okay thank you what are the bills for what did you not pay um so i did not pay um some toll bills

um for like driving over bridges and that kind of things and like i said they're up to eight hundred dollars oh it's all and you solve that one thing yeah it's all one thing over the course of uh about a year now and i was young stupid and neglected them okay all right thank you for taking responsibility yeah we've all been there man that's a good that's a good

first start for all of us to take responsibility for what we do and cause um so no i would not use a credit card because i as you know for me i know you're against credit cards i would not have a credit card so first thing i'll do is take some scissors and place across that thing and squeeze hard have plastic surgery and um yeah then close that account

so okay that answered that part now the debit card yeah you're right i would not give them electronic access to your checking account which your debit card does do and so i would not use that to settle a collection so you were onto something there what i would do is just find out the amount exactly by having a phone call or an email exchange with the collector

and say all right if i get back on the phone with you in a few hours uh what will be the amount okay and then go buy a prepaid debit

card for exactly that amount to the penny and then give and then give them that and then cut that up because it's a one-time use item gotcha so what about a money order with that you could do that too that's fine you just or you could do a wire you can do a wire if you want to as long as they're not having your debit card or or

they don't have your checking account number and matthew i even i have a it's a digital version of this i have a service that i use that's free it's online that i put my debit card number in and it gives me an unlimited number of numbers of debit card numbers that i can use for vendors online and i get to say what the max payout is so

if it gets taken you can't go any further does that work what's that called privacy.com okay that's what i use you can try that is it free it's free yeah it's fantastic but i put my number in that way do what privacy.com yeah and i put my debit card in there and then any of my online purchases i don't want online companies having my access to my checking account

and so i can say you can al that any purchase can only be this much amount but again there's probably a dozen of those kind of companies out there and obviously do your due diligence but um like dave said yeah don't ever give them access to your account yeah that's the big thing and you know get in writing it'd be great if they just send you an email back

and say if you pay by the 15th of of march then it'll be this amount and

then you've got that in writing and you keep keep that in a file in hard copy and you keep a hard copy of whatever methodology you used to pay in the file so this if this ever comes up again you've got proof that it was all settled out and uh the great news is you're now on top of your money and you're gonna handle things pay your tolls matthew well done

there you go all right christy's in charlotte north carolina hi christy how are you i'm good how are you better than i deserve what's up i have a well two kids one's already in college and my son is a high school junior he's 16 and started working and he saved about five thousand dollars so far his goal is to be debt-free his college he doesn't wanna he wants to have a debt-free degree right now

he has three thousand dollars in savings 800 in checking and he had bought some stocks he invested 700 and um

then it went up to about 1500 it's down about 1200 now and i called one of your coaches earlier and asked he wanted to know if he should invest part of that savings for three thousand dollar savings into a mutual fund and they said no because he'll need the money and follow he wants to go to community college first and then to a state school so he'll need

the money in fall of 2025 and um they said no don't invest into a mutual fund i forgot to ask him about the stocks whether he should keep well they're more volatile than mutual funds you know right but he already had those he said not to invest more of the savings into mutual funds but we didn't know what should he sell those i would catch him i'd cash

it out and put it in the savings okay trap your wins and uh avoid the losses uh here and there's two reasons for that okay one is is that um you know we're protecting the money that he has made and it's not gonna go down further with geopolitical events in the

air we don't know exactly what the stock market will do in the next six months it's not a time to be screwing around with single stocks the second thing that's more important than that because this 700 or 1200 or whatever it ends up being is not going to cause him

to be able to go to school or keep him from going to school it doesn't answer right it doesn't solve the problem so if we lit it on fire it doesn't end the him going to school theory right so so what we really do with it doesn't matter that much but what does matter is what he believes

causes him to win and if he starts to see himself as a wonderful stock market day trader he's setting himself up for losses for the

next three decades before he figures out that's a dumb butt idea and so i don't want to strengthen a muscle that i don't want people using

yeah that was kind of his fun money that was that was not his work money yeah i know but it's kind of like it's kind of like let's say he dropped by the casino and dropped a quarter in and it came out 300 bucks and but and then he did that again and it worked again uh then he starts to think that's where wealth comes from yeah see we we let him buy those stocks with the thought that it would probably go down and he would learn his lesson and then

brutal hey listen when i was his age i would have taken that money and bought laffy taffy so y'all are way ahead of the game matter of fact you might do that now i probably wouldn't take most of my ramsey paycheck um to the cafe and the dentist but but yeah shift that man he's on the right track just shift where he's aiming those that financial that financial weaponry

and um something that's more sustainable yeah when you're teaching kids about money and letting them participate in different types of financial instruments understand that you are that the actual dollars that are moving around don't matter much but what the the lesson that you're teaching them is this is the way to do it and that's you know it's like well he'll learn to be responsible if he has a credit card no

he won't he'll learn to use credit cards that's right you know that's that's don't give a teenager a credit card dumber rock because you're gonna have an adult with a credit card later this is the ramsey show

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hey it's john delony co-host of the ramsay show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsay show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to ramseysolutions.com

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today as we take your questions about your relationships your mental health your job your career your money

your life we talk about it all right here on the ramsay show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five john it is really popular right now to hate rich people because they're evil and they're greedy and we should hate all of them agreed anyone who is successful should be completely torn down they should not be allowed to be successful because we want everyone to be at the same level because we are now a bunch of communists and so

greedy rich people horrible evil rich people are everywhere and we have decided that because the horrible evil greedy rich people are everywhere that james our producer decided we're going to start exposing how horrible and greedy and evil they are pretty regular basis so carissa collins is the owner of the popular instagram account the collins kids which consists of her and her nine children the social media influencer revealed on tuesday that this guy with a 400 million dollar net worth he's kind of a short guy

and um james no george campbell no the

guy with the guy with the 400 million dollar net worth that would not be james and that would not be george campbell oh that's my bad yeah his name is shaq she might have heard of him shaquille o'neal never heard of him yeah so he took the collins family out to dinner babes chicken the next day took him the mercedes-benz dealer and bought them a 15 passenger band

after buying the car they went out to dinner again at the rainforest cafe where he dropped another thousand bucks with the tip on the waitress just the tip to the waitress alone and after dinner he uh noticed uh chris's husband's truck which was uh the heat and air and the air conditioning was falling apart you know it was a dumpy truck and so he took him down

the ford dealership and bought him a new truck who is shaq did you know i could get i see like elvis i get choked up people cars i get choked up on these things man this is amazing

because like let's not blow pat that a thousand dollars for that waitress at the rainforest cafe changed her entire i mean that's huge yeah don't drive past a 15 passenger mercedes van okay that's just a little different than a thousand dollars too but oh my god oh and i saw this one where he got up all of this he dropped less than i don't know what that van cost

but he dropped 150 000 probably and he made he has a 400 million net worth so that is like you know it's a very very small percentage ratio of his world he's not broke from doing it i saw this one the guy was in there and he was trying to buy a wedding i mean engagement ring for his wife and jack just happened to be in the same jewelry store shopping for something

and the guy was kind of getting nervous and he was trying to he was paying and shaq walked over and just handed his car to the the person at the counter and pat him on the back and said congratulations my man could you imagine being able to just do that for somebody just being in there to buy something for your wife or your sister and all of a sudden being able to

i mean come on man it was such an amazing thing bought a house for this young man who was paralyzed by a stray bullet yeah these evil rich people need to stop this that is ridiculous that's just ridiculous that your your evilness needs to stop that's right evilness that's a word right evil in action

shaq you're just you're destroying the reputation of the evil rich people come on man with that with that outrageous generosity come on man wow that's pretty cool i did not know he had this uh knack for random generosity like this that's very well played about a thousand places and he's so he's so subtle because he fills up the whole room when he walks in it so there's no way

you can be shaq and be invisible but can i tell you he does it i saw him i saw a clip of this with the guy at the zales and it was the most quiet it wasn't a big hey look what i'm doing he gently handed the guy and said this one's on me and it's in his big deep voice and he patted on the back and

he said congratulations brother and walked off and it was not a it was i've been blessed so i can be a blessing right it's that sense of i've been given so much and i'm just going to bless these families and and of course he's got these big you know things that he gives 500 kids to clothes here but but it's just that kind of generosity man that

i can get choked up thinking about it because it's so cool um and thinking how cool it'd be on the other end of this to be able to just do that well the thing is with our you know generous people make your eyes leak yeah and they just we all love them nobody hate nobody hates generous people no but but you know you can't do that

if you're broke if you're broke and you're bitching about rich people on your iphone that you have payments on you can't do that because you're broke

so hello just just just a little heads up there you know bitching about rich people on your 800 dollar iphone thanks for pulling the wool thousand dollar iphone huge yeah james you just you just you're just showing people how rich people really are um we can continue this level of expose [Laughter] it's just emotionally distressing to you know to just let people see how people really are out

there because generosity is all over the place man wow hey uh jacon is it jaqen jacon is with us in modesto let's see if i can get it on there there it is jacob how are you man what's up good how are you guys doing today great how can we help

good um so about two and a half years ago found you

uh me and my wife are about a month away from being done with baby step two yay and then um shortly after that once three is done i have a six-year-old a four-year-old and a seven month old all three girls you are in it my brother you are in it yes yes

but i was thinking about 529s in their future and from what i understand is you can

use a 529 for any family member

so is it better to get them three individual 529s or would a single 529 that i could just load up

earn more money faster no i won't matter three with a thousand dollars in them each will grow at the same exact rate as

one with three thousand dollars so it won't matter i would open three so that you've got an individual accounting for each kid and you can tell what's going on sit down with your smartvestor pro they can help you get that open but there's no change in compound interest is compound interest it works the same way because it's always dealing with the total amount of money you have in other words

if you take three one thousand dollar deposits into exactly the same mutual fund with three different account numbers or you put three thousand dollars in that mutual fund with one account number it will grow at exactly the same rate exactly the same rate the fact that it's separated does not change the math at all on the total now it does change the math on the thousand obviously

because it's not three thousand it's one thousand but but the uh but on the total it doesn't change it at all you'll be just fine and and you it's better to be able to look at the kids and go hey come over to the screen this is your 529

and we're starting to talk about your future and how we feel about education with you and where you are going to go to school and that's a different individual instead of like okay family let's have a meeting and talk about the the group for the community 401ks

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dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your life and your money okay married folks imagine never having another money argument what would that be like considering it's the number one thing people divorce over money fights money problems the number one thing they fight about money fights money problems when you get on

the same page with money it's like there's not a lot left to fight about i mean you got to really work at it after that so it changes your marriage it changes your finances it increases the probability of success in your marriage and in your money hello sounds like a good plan how do people learn how to do that in financial peace university we've been teaching people to do that for many decades almost 10 million people have been through

this class and many many many of them say it saved or enhanced or changed their marriage in a good way

so to join a financial peace university class you can take a free trial at ramseysolutions.com fpu that's ramseysolutions.com

fpu oh by the way we'll also teach you how to get out of debt and become wealthy which is actually what the class is about but in the process it changes your

marriage ramsey solutions dot com slash

fpu phil's in minneapolis hey phil what's up hey dave and john uh yeah i'm calling from minnesota i got a bit of a weird question that i've never heard answered before i am a realtor so i work on commission my wife and i are in baby step four five and six she works for the school district and we front loaded our iras roth iras in november and

we just did our taxes and turns out we made over the threshold so we can no longer put in the six thousand dollars total so you made over 200 000 household income yep just barely but yes we did and so now we've got to pull money out of the ira and now they're down about 10 from when we put them in so obviously that's going to be money lost they're trying to figure out how to get them back into an investment

because everybody from what i'm hearing is saying that you've got to pull them back out and put them in a money market uh you don't have to put them in a money market that's not required but you have to pull them out you have to liquidate these because they're traditional iras right no they're rough they're roths they're roth iras yeah for my tax pro he says you

you can't do that and then my my investment dividers is actually an elp and she said yeah that that sounds right yeah you have to pull you have to pull it out but you but what you can do and your smart investor pro should be able to help you with this part what you can do is do what's called a back door roth

and if you you unfollowed your taxes i'm sorry she said that wasn't an option because what we did is we have so i have a company that pays basically i have an s corp and so i get my salary out of there so my business taxes are already done that's already filed our personal is not done yet um she said we weren't able to do a backdoor roth and i'm not quite sure why she leaned towards doing a sep but i can't do a step for 2021 now that it's 20 22.

no less than a hundred okay then you you should be able to do this so hit your smart investor pro again and tell them dave said he thinks you can so really look into it because here's what i think and i might there may be a detail of your situation i don't have yet or i may be missing something in this conversation this but i don't think

i am if you can do a back door roth after you pull this money out which you have to pull it out here's what you would do before you file your taxes you would open an after tax traditional not a pre-test okay and immediately 30 seconds later roll it into a roth

so i can just roll it from traditional to roth yeah from an after tax

traditional not a before tax okay it's an unusual

okay traditional okay but it's an after tax traditional and you roll it then into a roth instantaneously and you could do it all with the same mutual fund that you're in and you know you could do it with the money that's left that you have to pull out you don't even have to go all the way to 6 000 but if you want to add a little to

it you can do that i know you can still do them i just did one the other day well good so i mean i know i know in general it's possible but i but now is there a way to roll the current money that you've got over into that i don't think so i think you just got to pull it out now i'm sitting here with some cash in my hand from

this ira that i over funded

and now i'm gonna do a back door roth instead and you probably are just gonna do back door roths as long as they exist for the rest of your life because you're probably going to make over 200 from now on thank god that's wonderful i'm proud for you peyton is in portland maine hi peyton welcome to the ramsey show hey john how are you guys great man what's up so i have a little bit of a relationship question with my about my parents i'm 20.

and my car i just i'm almost done paying off my car right now um i had an account statement on my counter and my parents saw and they seemed they seemed almost disappointed that i'm paying off the debt they really they're really worried about my credit score but you know i don't know how to explain to them like the plan i'm doing that you guys have tried to before but it just doesn't seem to register and they were really it seems like they were really disappointed i just didn't know how to go about that it kind of took me back um i know in my heart i'm doing the right thing but i want to be able to honor them with doing this because they think i'm being irresponsible so i'm just not sure how to go about dealing with that situation with them how old are you now did you say 20 20 uh 20.

out of college you got a job you're making a living now they do get a vote because right now you live in their house and so if they tell you to be home at nine o'clock and to fold your socks a certain way you live in their house and they can do that but when it comes to how i'm taking care of my money my dad has opinions which is fine well and good but me and my wife make decisions financially for my household and you're making your own money you're making your own job you're paying off your own debts and they can tell you hey we think you should do this and really care about this loan and what thank you so much for your wisdom i'm really grateful for that i have a relative that tells me how i should vote and they're wrong [Laughter] so they don't get a vote okay and what you what you if man if you can learn this at 20 that people who love you and care about you are going to give you bad advice and they still love you and care about you and you're going to be able to move on with your day man if you could i didn't figure that out until i was like 35.

okay a great gift man i sometimes when i'm trying to explain a hard concept you know if i'm talking to somebody and i'm i i just don't have the words to explain it i'll hand them a book and say this guy or a podcast this guy does it better than me she this this brilliant doctor

she writes this better than i can explain it right now and so maybe if you say hey if you don't fully understand i get it here's a copy of total money makeover read this this guy there's a better job explaining millionaires that's right just do a better job of explaining it to me yeah that's not a bad thing to do either and go this is what i'm doing

and if this helps you it might be interesting to you it might not you may just want to stand back and not agree and that's okay too you can do whatever you want to do i'm just i'm going to be going forward with this thing and it's a smile and a gentle word no fights that's right and no there's no uh acid in the air no passive aggressive in

the question of the statement just be there this is the ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage sherman and christina

are with us welcome guys how are you thank you for having us we're great we're great we're excited to be here we're honored to have you where do you live in gainesville florida oh very cool

well good to have you thanks for joining us all the way to nashville to do a debt-free screen yes all the way to nashville cool how much did you pay off 203 000 in 27 months way to go

wow and your range of income during that time started right around a hundred thousand dollars and up to about 215.

wow sherman did you go back to work that's a pretty big jump man i had to get to work that's right what do you guys do for a living we own a gym in gainesville florida dynasty crossfit then we also own a marketing firm framework now okay you own a marketing firm too so what drove this income to double in two years i mean two and a half years yeah um the marketing firm

sort of took off the gym was our main thing for years and then we started the marketing firm so you know both of them just sort of continue to rise as we get more focused on paying off the debt finally how that works funny how that works yeah i need some money i wonder where i can find something yeah that's good very good way to go you guys what kind of debt was

the 203 um mostly student loans his student loans mainly student loans i guess they were my student loans apparently apparently that's the worst i was like i thought they were ours but they were ours so mainly student loans uh we paid off a car we cashflowed a few things but mainly the bulk of it was student loans wow undergrad graduate school so yeah what's your degree in um

i got a undergrad degree in psychology then i went to a master's program in biomedical science but not really utilizing those now so i don't know jim

probably inform some of the decisions maybe you realize it or not way to go guys yes good job very fun so what started this journey uh 27 months ago this ramsey idea yeah so we've known about ramsey for the entire time we've been married when we first got married we took um fpu and that sort of gave us sort of gave us the foundations to not go into more debt

but we weren't ready to be serious about it for a few years a couple years ago so you're flunked yeah yeah yeah okay

hey i wouldn't say we flunk we we definitely had we got to see i think we had to get incomplete tonight i guess yeah we just didn't want to accrue more debt so we were more aware of you know not you know working side hustles working multiple jobs especially even during pregnancies um we were very much aware like this this is something we owe and we need to pay

it back we just didn't know how god would multiply our income in such a way that from what we were making to what we're making now um until about two years ago when we heard a word from the lord um and we're like you know our

obedience he he has to take care of it so this is where we're at we're only making a hundred grand it seems like an enormous mountain and we're just going to have to chip away at it and at some point he's kept away at it and also on the income took off the income he's faithful he his provision is amazing and it's through that that um all

these opportunities started becoming about and we were able to tip even further amen and amen way to go you guys cool very cool so all right so you you you get re-energized yes years later after fpu 27 months ago you say all right game on what was the conversation do you remember that i mean you said you got a word from the lord right so there was a a moment in time that something just kind of was a wake-up call there's a milestone

there where it turned right yeah definitely so it's funny because we were actually up here visiting our good friends the coaliots up here um in nashville and i thought i had seen you all out here yeah yes we've been here numerous times people you're hard to forget yeah i mean ladies tell me that so thank you dave oh yeah listen i'm not standing by you in the photos all i'm saying that's all i'm saying um

so we were up here and

up here on vacation and those student loan people they called me and that just was that while you're in a lobby no while we were up here on vacation oh in nashville and that just put that i don't know why that just turned the knife turned the knife and i was like no more yeah yeah yeah all right so you go and sit down you sit down with christine

and say so uh for the next couple years we're not gonna buy anything yeah um we're gonna have to duct tape the kids to the floor because they might have to go too like we're gonna get after this were you all in yeah yeah she was all lit i've always been all in yeah she's all in i would say that's what i'm defender but i'm also all in tonight

she is the spender but she was definitely all in she was like if you want to do it let's do it i was just like all right i guess i really have to do it and i started hoping she would say yeah maybe she was like all right let's do it because i feel like if you're caught by got to do something at that point it's a conviction

and it's just through our obedience that he's going to um it's the same trip you're walking around out here in the lobby yeah yeah that'll get on you too yeah absolutely and we did that intentionally i remember saying well we have to go and it kept us um it's a drive-through there's the picture all right i'm not i wasn't losing my mind all right i'm in the picture yeah

it kept us motivated it's something that that um once god calls us to do something i mean it's easy for us we don't have there is no no like the consequences there is no reward to disobedience put me in coach don't put me in this is what we have to do and then now we get to watch him um provide and make a way so it's it was easier for me

because it's like all right god hands off you work your your

um your miracles and your whatever you need us to do we're in we're in well i mean you doubled your income during this time so yeah he was obviously showing off he did he showed up and showed out and i know i know it's a big way florida's been been different in throughout this but you got to say that 24 months ago running a gym also in the world your heart's got to start being a little bit faster right absolutely you were absolutely you were exposed right you did but we

that's all we needed so our faith was strong enough and our children are amazing like they're they're gung-ho about anything too and when we all sat down as a family we came up with a budget there was no going back there i mean we were all in and we knew that god was we knew it would be hard but i knew that um it would be rewarding as well

so we focused more on serving others and doing what we could for other people we also taught a fpu class during that time just to wow stay focused oh thank you yeah what do you tell people the key to getting out of that is i would say you have to have a budget you have to stick to the budget and for me one of the biggest things is your spouse

if you're married your spouse needs to be on board with you because that made it even easier for me like christina stays at home doesn't work outside of the home she homeschools our three kids so it could have been easy for her to say i'm you know i'm not going to be on board with this i got to take care of these kids but she was like

if you want to do it i'm totally on board so having a budget and then having a spouse that fully supported me that made it that much better and i think it for me it was easier because um not easy but it

was a lot easier to understand this is not our money we have to pay it back i'm not mad at the student loan people we he signed the paperwork i mean we owe them so it's you know it is a commitment and back to it's your [Music]

it's not that it's something we we wanted to and in marriage that was one thing he he always you know brought up was hey i have this mountain of debt you know from school and i'm like it's ours it really is and that's that honestly was the point i was trying to get to yeah you're very very healthy we're poking fun at it but very good very well said that's very well done we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you that's the next chapter in your story for sure uh that outrageous generosity so you're on track to be able to do all of that what are the kiddos names and ages we have judah here he's eight we have ariana she's ten we have caden he's 13.

all right beautiful beautiful good-looking family well done you guys we're proud of y'all thank you good work you're amazing people well done 203 000 paid off in 27 months making 100 to 215.

sherman christina cayden ariana and judah count it down let's hear a debt-free scream here we go in three

two one we're debt-free

[Applause] yeah so cool that's how it's done man

that's how it's done 27 months later game on that is that is a different kind of game on when you just decide something that's when you draw the line the same i'm with my family you will never call me again i'm done with you i'm done don't you're bothering me i'm out the borrower's slave to the lender and i don't like it anymore i'm out this is the ramsay show [Music]

[Music]

so

dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us america open phones at

talking about your 825-5225 your mental health anxiety we're talking about jobs and careers we're talking about money marriage kids life it shows up right here on the ramsey show andrew's with us andrew is in st petersburg florida hi andrew what's up

hi dave how's it going better than i deserve how can i help

well um thanks for taking my call i've been looking forward to doing this for a while now um i have a large question but i'm hoping you can help me out um i work right now in insurance i make

pretty good money i'm worried you're gonna ask me how much i don't know exactly because i haven't looked at my last years but i know it's well above

120 it's probably about 150 for the year

okay i love the company i work for i love the people i work with it's you know it's been a blessing um and i've been here for about four years now um however i did start a business

renting electric bikes here in saint pete florida and it's obviously something i'm a little bit more passionate about something i love to do and i'm just really nervous right now it's kind of part time if you will i run it

with my cousin so we kind of balance out the workload and then my brother is like our full-time employee so it's sort of passive income with me working it on the weekends and i've got i'm just trying to figure out kind of how or if i should

transition i never want to give up my book of business with what i do now in insurance because i've worked really hard for it and now it's at a really good point where i could you know go to more of a part-time place and start focusing more on just renewing my book and not so much on new sales but it's still scary to like make the jump you know from going to being sale

sales you know new business every month and renewing to kind of shifting my focus onto this business um what'd you make on the business what's that how much you make on the business last year oh well it's it's new it's all right we haven't given any money

no no i mean i mean honestly no i don't need to quit doing anything do you make money yeah that's true um it's definitely not as much as yeah i'm making now or you're not making any money so it's definitely not as much yeah i i wouldn't have any problem with you taking a pay cut if it's something you really want to do and you enjoyed your life but you right now you're making zero yeah so you've got to get this you got to get the business profitable and i want to see it i want to see it putting 100 000 in your pocket right yeah because it's not i mean it does make maybe a few thousand a month but definitely not you know in your pocket in your pocket after everybody's paid after the brothers paid after you split with your cousin new bikes they replaced the ones that the drunks tore up and all the stuff you have to do in that business right right now once you get it to a hundred here's the second thing you need to do before you make the jump but don't even talk to it don't talk about quitting your other thing until you get this up to 100.

you're kind of coasting around in this conversation and i need you to for your sake i want you to be very very precise because if you don't you're going to make a mistake so when you get to 100 i see two problems with this business

okay that that is that threatens the

future of it one is competition as soon as bird put a scooter on the street three other people did and if you were all in on bird scooters you'd be screwed right now because the competition would have run you out of business and electric bikes are another version of bird scooters okay the second thing is this is a very

technology-driven

app-driven social type movement product and if it suddenly goes if it's no longer it's it's it works right now because it's cool it's cool it's it's in vogue it's the

cool thing to do in five years it's not gonna be the cool thing to do anymore so in addition to having a plan on how you're gonna survive the competition you need a plan on how you're going to uh add other types of product lines that do

not falter as quickly when they're not cool anymore when you have a fad product when the fad's over your business is over if you don't have another product and so in addition to electric bicycles uh you know i mean if you think about look back five years five years ago no bird scooters no electric bicycles they just showed up boy i mean this is it and so uh something else is going to show up they'll go it's as fast

and it's just it's not going to be cool that's what i mean by cool it's something you run a fad product line something in a high rate of change industry you got to have a plan for where you're going next not i'm going to do this for 20 years with like bicycles because 20 years from now you won't be doing electric bicycles i promise you and this is a strange call uh andrew

because 99 percent of time someone calls it's i'm a nurse and i cannot do this anymore i'm a teacher and i cannot i'm a police officer and i can't the way you talked about your insurance company and the p you like it you love these people and so here's the thing there is this weird pressure going along around people who are 25 and younger if you're working for a company that somehow you're failing that

if you're not quitting your job to go do your quote unquote own thing um that you're somehow less than i call that's not true bullcrap on that if you love your job you're making 150 grand and you're good at it you're building it there is nothing wrong with staying there and crushing and hustling it there with with your company man so the third option is uh stay in

the job permanently

do the things i'm talking about with the business and get the business so profitable that you just staff it and run it and you're an absentee investor that's what i like you're not an operator hire some high school kids to run it for well he's got he's got the brother in there starting it right first full-time employee so we can put some other employees in there as

the profitability goes and let's run that up but you still are going to have to look at how you're going to double and triple the revenues you're still going to have to look at how you can diversify your product lines because you're in a very i don't know i don't know the other proper word to use other than fad you're in a very v in vogue product in a high

rate of change industry and you're going to get your head taken off with that because you're going to just wake up one more it's going to be over and and you're sitting there with a whole bunch of bikes 75 electric electronic bikes yeah i mean it's just that's going to be a problem and it's not going to be happening tomorrow it's not going to happen next year

but five years from now i mean you know you may be using hollywood you may be using holograms to book the deal you know i mean i don't know so all right rose is in tampa hi rose how are you thank you for taking my call dave and dr john sure what's up can you hear me okay yeah so my question is i have i currently have two rental properties

and one of them will be sold this summer that'll be out of question but i have a town home

that i it's empty right now tenants just moved out um and i'm wondering if i should sell it or keep it long-term what's it worth about 217. is it paid for i have 45 000 which i'm going to be paying off so let's pile up 250 000 let's pretend you don't own the town home and i just put 250 000 cash stacked up in the middle of your dining room table

what type of investment are you going to do with that are you going to buy rental property are you going to invest in mutual funds what are you going to do with that everything else i have is in the market

and so for me real estate was this

is just not having 100 of everything in the market do you want to buy with your 250 000 in the middle of the table do you want to buy a piece of real estate

i'm unsure that's why i'm calling okay there's not a wrong answer

yes is the right answer and no is the right answer um because it's what you want to do real estate is not a bad investment this is not the perfect time to sell if you should be holding i'm not selling mine i got a bunch of it and i'm keeping it and i'm just smiling that it's worth a lot more and that the rents are going up on all of

it i'm just smiling uh but if uh if you are sick and tired of real estate you there's no law that says you have to own real estate so you can sell it but if you would buy more real estate with that money then you would keep this if you would sell it if you would not buy more real estate with it then you would sell this that's how

i help analyze it help me walk through the emotions in my situations [Music]

hey it's john deloney co-host of the ramsay show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsay show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to ramseysolutions.com

[Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

i'm dave ramsey your host dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today

as we answer your questions about your money your relationships your mental health your anxiety your job your career anything having to do with your life marriage parenting it's all here it's called the ramsay show the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five joe is in st louis hi joe

how are you hey dave how are you doing today better than i deserve what's up i i called you

i discovered you about seven years ago on the radio and i'm 71 years old my finances are all my life been up and down and i can tell you that i paid my mortgage off yesterday and i'm debt-free

too late it's never too late to learn

and i learn from you and that's what i called you about i'm a little nervous now but uh i took 99 of your advice i didn't do it all but i took 99

and i want to tell you and other people out there it's never too late yeah so you're starting here you start in your mid 60s and you paid off your house when you're 71. i'm so proud of you 71 i paid it off yesterday that's awesome what's this house worth oh about 150. look at you with a paid for house i've been up and down in finances and income all my life and i live pay paycheck to paycheck

until you and i just wanted to say thank you well thank you you're an inspiration sir uh you're i appreciate it honored you called never too late and never too late so what's your house worth you think you said 150 100 you said 150 150 that was yeah yeah and and

still working yeah i'm retired but i work part-time

okay and uh but my finances have never been the way

they are now just because of you so you not only got a paid for house that has gives you a sense of peace but more than that more importantly you have a sense that you're under control oh yes i've never been under control in all these years with my finances they've been up and down i had a lot of things i lost a lot of things but

but you are now right now you are now i'm sitting on the banks of the mississippi river and i'm looking at bald eagles flying up and down the river right now life is good much better than that thank you for your gratitude my brother that's awesome that's just beautiful just beautiful thank you so much robert is in modesto california hi robert welcome to the ramsay show hi dave thank

you for taking my call sure what's up um actually i want to listen to your podcast maybe three times in the start of this week wow i'm surprised i actually got through to talk to you welcome to the gang man welcome in brother tell me about two months now that i needed to listen to you um we're kind of

in the wiper i don't know if we're on the same page here she's 48 i'm 54 i

make 100 000 a year just over that i was a paramedic um here

in california and we are 300 000 up on equity in our

house i have about six hundred thousand in 401k 75 000 in cars and um

about 30 000 in debt that's a student loan and a credit card my wife wants to go to a larger home because we are small at home four of us here 19 year old 15 year old me and the wife and we're just running out of room here she wants to go to a larger home to me that's a larger payment you know a little less stress on

the on us space space-wise a little more stress on us financial wise she advises if i do the ramsay thing then uh you know we'll find the money type of stuff is it a bad idea to go to a larger home i'm sorry the last part about the ramsey thing say that again she says if we start doing the seven steps and doing the ramsey method that

it um it'll all work out that the the the more payment is not going to be that big a deal because we'll find the money somewhere else the baby steps aren't pixie dust brother yeah the problem is the problem is that the the ramsey thing is going to cause you to not go get a home because you have other debt you've got to clean up before you talk about doing that 30 000 worth okay

you don't move up and home until you get that mess cleaned up the the consumer debt that you've got

right and you're running out of room in your house you got a 19 year old that will probably be taken off soon you got a 15 year old that's just got a couple of years left i mean this sounds rather relatively temporary right yeah you were running out of room 10 years ago yeah now you're not running out of room now they're running out of the house yeah we've been in

this house for 20 years that sounds like more of the issue than the space issue because y'all want to go do something i don't mind you all moving to a different home even a more expensive home i would not do it because you're running out of room because your kids are about to leave in an eye blink i'm with john on that i would not do it until

you get your debts paid off that you have other than the house and then that would entail that you are working the ramsey baby steps that you have your fully funded emergency fund your debt free except the house and then when you make the move on the house your payment is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate

and then we plan to work extra and pay that house off sooner than 15 years because that's what people that become millionaires do that would be the ramsay plan not um

we're gonna move into a higher house payment and then we're gonna start seven baby steps and that'll make it work out that's right no lady that is not the ramsey plan sorry and robert make sure that you don't have three hundred thousand dollars of imaginary equity burning a hole in your pocket yeah a lot of folks feel like oh my house is worth this so now i have to go x y

and z because when you sell in an up market you also have to buy in enough that's right that's right so hang up man i'm a hang on to it man that that itch might not be scratched by just spinning that money that you don't have yeah so i i i think we need to redefine why we're moving you can't be the two kids because they're not going to be

there and say i've lived here for 20 years i want to do something else that's great that's okay that's wonderful that's okay that's not a bad thing but we're running out of room that you should have said that 10 years ago that's right because you were out of room then um if you're going to use that one it sounds like you'll y'all feel like you have a 300 000 blank check

and you don't

that's the part i'm worried about i think she went out to some open houses and saw some nice cabinets in the kitchen no that's never happened at our house

oh jeez it's like i'm just gonna go to the car lot and look at them that's right at the bentley lot i'm just gonna go drive the drive the maserati that's all i'm gonna do yeah i'm just going to drive the new raptor would you look at that screen i don't know how people make it without a screen that size yeah it's uh we all do this is what we're saying not just your wife

but i think she uh i i i might accuse sharon ramsey of doing similar things like she goes to some friend's house or to an open house or i'm just going to stop by and look i want to see what people are doing in kitchens these days suddenly the ramseys are like oh or we're tearing the whole freaking kitchen out yeah and which usually means that 24 months

after we do that we're moving then you're moving but yeah so yeah this is a this is an ailment that is common to lots of households robert this is the ramsay show

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look i love real estate and i want you to have a house but i don't want a house to have you that's why you need to get in touch with churchill mortgage to make sure you do this right these guys are awesome they'll help you get on a smarter mortgage plan because they're committed to doing what's right for you that means they check in every year with free consultations to help

you stay on the right plan they show you how to save money and interest so you can build wealth faster they walk you through the total cost of your loan so you can make the best choice basically they care that's why we call them ramsey trusted you can achieve debt-free home ownership and churchill is here to help go to their site churchillmortgage.com ramsey to start your approval or get more information [Music]

[Music]

well real estate market's pretty hyped up right now if you hadn't noticed the buyers are feeling the pressure to buy the sellers are going i can get a lot of money it's not amateur hour out there don't get me wrong rates probably won't get any cheaper than they are right now uh doesn't give you a reason to green light stupid okay you don't necessarily need to get caught up in

the hype the flow the tidal wave whatever you want to call this or you don't have to get caught up in offering way over asking price because you're desperate don't get caught up in the hype you know you got to get your head out of the craziness and get a second look at the facts are you debt-free do you have a down payment are you putting it on a 15-year where

the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay only if the answer is a big fat yes are you ready to buy but if you're ready to buy we can help you with this once you've answered the questions it's time to look at some old cold hard numbers you can use our free mortgage calculator

to see exactly what your home ownership options are based on your budget real ramsey stuff so go to ramseysolutions.com

click free tools use the mortgage calculator it'll tell you what to do ramsey solutions.com click free

that's a keyword right there free tools our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free free samples free shipping new promos all the time a great american company blinds.com always use ramsey as a promo

code it's magic it'll get you the best deal all right today's question comes from megan in wyoming megan writes i've been married for 14 years and due to anger issues i need to leave my marriage and take our children with me i'm struggling with how to pay bills and find a place for him to live i'm in the first year of a great career but my pay is not yet consistent

i earn 50 000 a year and my husband makes about the same amount i feel like i need to be financially responsible for the house we own together and an apartment for him to move to when we separate how should i plan financially to be ready to leave him

if you have come to a situation in your marriage where you are not safe and you decide to terminate your marriage because somebody has made it your home and your relationship inhabitable you are not responsible for finding them a place to live that's their responsibility yeah this is hard man buddy of mine that does divorce recovery many many years ago here on the air said divorce changes a marriage into a business transaction

this is no longer about you taking care of him far from your need to take care of him you're having to end this because he can't control himself so his rage and anger issues so

um time for the mad little boy to grow up and get his own apartment in his own place that's right yeah so um yeah you know

that feels um like an abuse abused language exactly what it sounds like like i need to take care i need to make sure he's okay to keep him calm right while i do this big big thing yeah just so i go over here and do all the adult stuff i need to keep him calm that's right and uh and or uh i'm worried about him even i love him even though

i don't you know and that that's all that's all abused language right abuse so megan you need to get yourself a excellent attorney who will walk things through with you you need to get a couple of women in your life that will walk through this with you and you can bounce decisions off of get a good pastor a counselor that can walk with you you're going to need some support here

and you trying to make sure all the teas are crossed and eyes are dotted including where he's going to live and how he's going to eat and what kind of car he's going to drive you're taking on too much taking on too much

when someone leaves and we you call them the ex-husband it's because they're not the husband anymore that's right yeah that's why we call them ex your responsibility for how they choose to live and eat is no more x's used to be not anymore right your problem now over that's what that means so it's a is a clear line there of your responsibility like when he walks out

the door with the suitcases that line is following him correct and it's going to follow him as he drives down the street like some kind of a bad progressive commercial or something right but yeah and and that's okay that that's where your line of responsibility ends is right at his butt as he leaves so let's take him out of the picture mom needs to just simply circle back to

the baby steps right now she's got her and i don't she doesn't see how many kids let's say she's got two kids and she makes 50 dollars then she needs to say can i afford this home on fifty thousand dollars can i afford the four walls bills and transportation and food can i take care of my necessities right as i make this this transition and i would even go as far to say

you need to take care of yourself if you're not safe whether or not you can afford that house it might mean that you got to move to an apartment for a season and the house gets sold that's right yeah so here's the last part of that that you know that's where i was going to is i'm going to make the number up but i'm not far off as

i have worked over 30 years with these situations where there's a divorce mom wants the lady wants to stay in the home in this case she makes the same amount of money usually she makes less statistically right okay not saying that's right or wrong it is wrong obviously if she does less she should make less but if she does the same she ought to make the same

so uh anyway she's got the same amount of money here but the household income is getting ready to be cut in half i need to the kids world is rocked because of the marriage ending dad's not going to be in the house the kid's world is rocked the kid's world is rocked and i need to provide a safe place stable environment for my kids i don't want to give them any more change than

the change that's already occurring so i don't want their school or their friends or their bedroom to be upset so i'm going to keep a house i can't afford right and i gotta tell you that happens a lot it does and instead of you getting a fresh start after this you're starting in the hole after this but now it may not be the case and maybe you can afford

the house it's okay but john's advice there to where you say i'm gonna really look at the budget and decide can i afford on my income to keep

this house otherwise the house needs to be sold as part of the divorce here's what it is it's i want to prop up this picture of family life yep and i'm just gonna i'm just going to cut him out of it but i'm going to keep this picture propped up and you need to know when you file for divorce everything's different yeah that old picture is oh

and those kids are not better off in a house you can't afford in your stress in their old bedroom that's right than they are in a brand new apartment that you can afford

uh and your stress level is way down and you can be emotionally present for them because you're not crying over the bills after they get a new environment can help them actually make a psychological shift that now we're in a new world that's actually helpful sometimes yeah a visual of that's not bad that's right yeah so it's not it's not always the best thing to keep the house yeah it's not sometimes it's okay most of

the time it's not it's not so you you're not telling you have to sell it but i'm telling you got to put it on the table that that's a possibility and i'm heartbroken for you megan yeah that's awful should be thinking about you awful awful awful awful open phones at

triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money um shane on facebook says can you distinguish the difference between enabling and helping yeah uh helping helps enabling enables i i think

wow did you go to school for that yeah that was that was an entire class i paid for 900 an hour um i if i'm helping

somebody i am walking alongside them as they get better they improve their life they get closer towards their goal enabling makes me feel better not them right so enabling helps me think i'm doing something makes me feel like i'm doing something to support somebody they're actually not been not only not benefiting from it their life is getting worse because of my my participation in their life enabling is a drunk gets a drink right

he feels better and you think you helped but you didn't you harmed helping is i'm gonna pick you up and go to aaa with you the first meeting helping is i'm going to embrace suck with you and we're going to go together and get this thing messed straightened up and so um but enabling

makes feels like you did something you called it helping but it allowed the person to continue in the destructive behavior enablings for me helpings for them maybe that's the best way to say that enabling is helping is often labeled as tough love enabling is often labeled as love by the person who's getting the gift that shouldn't be getting it

that's good all right i feel better now i do too i feel totally helped i was i wasn't enabled i feel enabled but i wasn't enabled but it didn't happen not right here on the air this is the ramsey show

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[Music] dr john dolone ramsay personality is

my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money in the lobby of ramsey solutions right here on the debt-free stage is none

other than gary and jill welcome you guys thank you we're excited to be here well we're honored to have you where do you guys live um so we're from alexandria virginia right outside of dc yeah welcome to nashville we uh we brought the sun out for you today thank you for that yeah it's a nice day out there if you're a duck in this rain but uh oh my gosh welcome so uh down here to do a debt-free scream how much you paid off 658 thousand three hundred and eleven dollars oh how long did this take six years all right i love this and your range of income during this time 142 thousand and 272 000.

for a living i'm so i'm a teacher

and i'm a certified public accountant and owner of steward solutions ah very good very good so what do you what do you teach i teach first grade um with dcps in right in washington dc yeah good for you yeah very cool you are you've had a boring last 24 months yeah i've been really bored wow well the kids have never been the problem it was always the parents

and the administrators that's the only people we've ever had to worry about yeah way to go you guys very cool all right i'm guessing with these numbers six hundred fifty eight thousand and six years you paid off your house i wish no they're in dc six six hundred thousand it's a garage apartment right yeah you can't buy much with 650 in dc i know i know but

i thought oh no what guy

would you do richard what'd you do

i mean we had a wars a line of credit on our home um 218 000 was credit cards

uh 162 000 was student loans

and then just a bunch of like miscellaneous debt

you're a cpa you're 200 dollars in credit card debt it was bad explain this to america

we were having a lot of fun

and thank you

oh my god yeah our our lifestyle was out

of control and you know like you said 80

of you know building wealth is behavior and our behaviors were out of whack with our income our income yeah oh

my goodness wow okay so um how long have you all been married um this will be seven years in june yeah

so you did dismiss before marriage really yes we had two messes and then we made it one big mess when we got married

it was really nice that's so beautiful so sweet it's so romantic yeah very special i mean you guys get married and it's like you must have been thinking everything's great and then all of a sudden you're like one you're in and you're like holy crap so when when did when did you realize i don't i don't want i don't want to put i don't want to put words in your mouth tell us what happened that's pretty much what happened so we got married in june of 2015.

um you know then we like continued our frivolous lifestyle for about six months and going on vacations and just like kind of doing whatever we wanted having fun being the like the goal um which we did but then we started to merge our finances six months later and gary actually you know came to

me and was like this is really a problem we have way too much debt and i

was not agreeing with him i was like this is normal everyone has student loans everyone has cars everyone has

that was like that was bad but um all right gary i'll give you 200 000 credit cards but listen listen right i'll give him that yeah i was like that that is bad um but i was like a big mile person so i'm like well think of how many miles work i was bad so give us our own airplane yeah

wow so gary um brought financial peace to me i it took me a little while to get on board but when he you know um he was really the leader of merging our finances because i'm like i don't want to talk about money i don't want to do it you're the accountant you're the cpa make this go away gary yeah just like fix it whatever you do you have the degree fiction i don't know i teach first grade i love you you're amazing

you teach first grade so awesome right you're a cpa right yeah and you had 600 thousand dollars in just consumer debt exactly this is incredible so i'm trying to help the little people now i have a whole lot about it but but yeah so then she laid it all out for me so you went through financial peace at a church together um so actually i read the total money makeover book

first and that really just like blew my mind and then i was hooked on everything right from there and then i found the at-home financial piece oh okay it was actually like dvds yeah and back in the day yeah yeah convinced her too 2015 when people had dvd players yeah kind of convinced her to um you know go through the program with me and we kind of eased into

it it was not a you know i wish it was like you know right away but it took us probably the first you know 12 to 18 months of the six year journey to really click and get on the same page and what was your best fight

oh probably the cutting the credit card i feel like i really couldn't deal with that yeah that was i mean we had 28 credit cards

28 yeah and it was bad yeah you know

when we started doing the debt snowball and you are giving america hope yeah that's why we're here we just we give everybody we started off if you guys can do this by god anybody can do it that's

amazing i love you the psychology behind the last one getting hurt

i've had people i used to cut them up at this on the stage after an event and sign books for hours and i've had people cry they would just weep when we would cut up their probably

about this card since i was in college like it's an old girlfriend yeah that's oh my god yeah it's hilarious oh man you guys are fun i'm so proud of you because what you've done is so big it's so herculean and so there had to be a moment in time so you said there it took about a year 18 months to get real serious and get it dialed in

and then we're like cut that last card now we're game on and then there had to be another moment where the uh momentum shifted and you went like hey we're going to win this where was that i mean we so our debt snowball had like 54 items on it yeah um there's a lot of yeah um 28 credit cards yeah i think once like after the first two years

and we and we got like a third of the way through the list momentum started picking up and we started doing stuff that you know like working side jobs and selling stuff out of the house and

about that time i got my cpa license so i started doing you know tax returns and and i joined um ramsey preferred coaching and started coaching other people how to win with money and it was really cool to you know do something i was passionate about but use that side income to speed up our progress that's cool well and you got a story i mean you can tell people that stories like me telling stories going broke

you know i mean it's like you know hey i know you i know you think your twenty six thousand dollars in credit card debt is bad but let me just tell you let me just i couldn't tell you about that so have you had the moment where your your teacher check and your business check is deposited and no payments you have no payments yeah yeah we have no problem

we have a mortgage but we don't have any consumer debt payments that's why it looks great you guys are amazing you're so such a powerful thing you've done i mean i mean it's such an extreme transformation yeah when we first got married and you know she just threw the the finances at me and was like here you go and i had a lot of stress and anxiety

because i i was do i was living and breathing it every day and um you know put a lot of weight on me and just to have her agree to come in with me and work together and share the burden with me the last six years uh it really like helped our marriage and made us closer yeah so powerful congratulations you all too very very powerful well

we got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you you're going to be there before you know it you can do this you can do anything man this is so amazing so amazing and you're a neat couple and thanks for letting us cry with you there for a moment because it just takes your breath away but what you've done is amazing that's that's the story is the size of

the mountain you climbed all right 658 000

paid off in six years of that over two hundred thousand credit card debt making 142 to 272. count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're

wow you are free i love it no more excuses america they just took them away from you ding ding you thought you couldn't do it they did it there it is

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our scripture of the day james 14 4 you do not even know what will happen tomorrow what is your life you are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes lillian dixon said life is like a coin you can spend it any way you wish but you can only spend it once

how you gonna do it what are you gonna do this is the ramsay show dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money leanne is in canada hi leanne how are you hi i'm doing well how are you guys great how can we help well thank you first of all for taking my call my husband's actually an avid daily listener

and follower of your plan and he got me hooked on it by playing the podcast on our honeymoon last year and then gave me the total money makeover as a like a light beach read he's like a real romantic it's the least romantic honeymoon i've ever heard of that's awful it actually was it was a great way to start our marriage so it worked out nice very good

it must have been episodes that me and george were on go ahead oh there you go

um so we have no debt besides our house which we owe about 330 000 on

um we made it our personal goal to try to pay it off within five years was possible and then we bought it in 2019 so we have about three years left if we are to fulfill our goal um we have a fully funded emergency fund right now but my question is about a decision that i have to make primarily by the 10th of march right now i'm a 23 year old licensed practical nurse who um like i signed up for school online to get my registered nurse through a university in alberta i'm finishing

three courses by the end of march and needs to sign up for the new courses by the tenth i have about two years of full-time school left if i'm to continue

the issue is that i unfortunately got fired due to the mandates up here in canada and could potentially lose my nursing license um and i'm not really sure what the future of nursing is going to hold in the next few years so to speak um so i

don't know if it's going to be worth it for me to keep taking the courses if i should work harder than now or casually or even if i should be taking them at all because we're able to cash full of my courses with my husband's income and then a little bit of my own but i'm not totally sure if we'll be able to reach our goal paying off the house that soon if i do school on top of it so i'm not familiar with

the overarching issues in in uh are the are the details i should say of

uh why you were fired but i'm guessing that you uh chose medical freedom you wanted to decide what happens with you and and they said you have to do something regarding covey that you didn't want to do that's correct yeah okay and is that an industry-wide thing i mean she you said take your nursing license

because you choose not to be vaccinated is that what you're saying so that's a potential that they've sort of been rumoring around and i won't know that until probably like the 24th of march is when they're expecting to rule out that mandated government yeah because they you know yeah and our um the totalitarianism of that is just shocking yeah i i can't imagine

that they would lose the force they would i mean i've been surprised before so well they they've lost their entire trucking industry yeah on the same exact issue yeah they shut the trucking industry down because truckers aren't they're not working in canada because of this exact same thing and if all the nurses or a portion of the nurses don't work now um and they're willing to do that on on

the issue of a vaccine or on the issue of the power is really what it is but um oh my gosh wow well medical freedom is a

big deal uh being able to make your own choices is a big deal so you're i think i'm hearing woven into this narrative that you're saying uh if that's how it's going to be i'm not in nursing

kind of yeah that's kind of my overarching yeah they're not they're not going you're not going to acquiesce is what you're saying yes okay then you've got to choose a different career and until you know that i wouldn't spend a bunch of money on further classes i'd complete the ones you're in and you can restart the classes next semester can't you if this blows over

yes yeah i could technically and it does

work with the online system that i could start them sort of any time but the one issue is because i'm signed up in the courses already it's a program that times out in i think it's seven years okay and i

think if you want to if you let me ask you this because i i don't know how this works in your particular situation but most colleges most universities have a drop ad system that there's so many days into the course you can drop it and get a full refund right

okay could you sign up for it and how many days down into march or into april can you still drop that course and get your money back yeah check with your advisor on that and you i mean this what's what's the term here i don't know what this is in canada is it three years for the for the program you have two years left i'm sorry you have two years left yeah okay and you've got a seven year clock you're not gonna hit that clock you're gonna be fine

i think you're fine there um i i heard another issue which is this

you and your husband have been gung-ho gazelle intense and you created this plan this idea that we're gonna have this thing paid off in day x and that is let's let's take the the mandates off the table for a second and you want to get get it paid off here and you want to complete your nursing degree well it's actually going to cause them to be able to pay

it off because when she completes that or pay will go up it'll go up that's right so it's it's six and a half dozen another i think you have a long-term place so take the mandates out if it's just staying in school i'd rather see you go to school and finish this program your pay will go way up over especially over the long term if you stay in nursing

it will that's right that's right you don't lose your license and i'd rather you pay your house off maybe a year later than your plan that you all made up over dinner one night then to yeah then to pause and

put yourself three or four years behind making some major bank if you stay in nursing of course yeah so yeah what i would do is see if your drop add date that's what i call it from the old school your ability to drop the class and get a full refund on this next semester if it is far enough out that you will have news about your license before then um i think you know that you're in an

unfriendly environment for the near term even if they don't take your license agreed yeah agreed and so you may make a decision on nursing in general based on that too and i'm not telling you to do that i'm just saying that you know you've got the long-term okay i'm out of the business because they're going to take my license or they're going to mandate this from now on

and i'm not willing to do it so i just i got to have another career boom i'm out peace out i'm not doing this right i'm you're not gonna violate my medical freedom with totalitarianism i'm gonna vote with my feet i'm out peace out um if that's the case you're already out right yeah um if uh if you think that that this will subside this this political pressure will subside

and you can get back to being a nurse without being vaccinated and protect your medical freedoms um sometime in the future then you would stay on this track and that's that's the judgment i can't make because i don't know what the flip's going on anywhere much less in canada right so let me let me point this out dave and i've had this call on my show several times

once you decide i'm out i will not let somebody tell me what to do with my body i'm out let that be the day you stop stewing about it and be use that energy to go to

something else yeah right you've made your call you've made your decision then talking about it every day being angry about it for the next six months it's just choosing to live shorter it's like true that's true if you quit any job that's exactly right anything any marriage i don't like what's going on in this company i quit and as soon as you walk out the door then keep going dust your sandals off just keep going just keep going

you don't get any more space it doesn't do any good for you right to constantly be looking in your mirror and go well back because i got fired when i was 23 and i don't know why i got fired i probably deserved it but the guy just said pack your effing stuff in this fn box and get the f out of my office now and i went yes sir

you should have showered you know yeah that was it and you know i have no idea what i did but i probably deserved it i mean i was a 23 little fart you know i'm still being mad about it now i dust my sandals off next thing that's right you know i'm not apparently he had a problem you know it's like goodness gracious right you should you got to bathe dave

you got to bathe got a bath i got a shower gotta brush those teeth gotta brush that tooth brush the teeth brush that two that too

what's this hour of the ramsay show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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hey it's john deloney co-host of the ramsay show did you know over 18 million

people listen to the ramsay show every week a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you go to ramseysolutions.com show

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## 197. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 25, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today he's also the host of the dr john delony show on podcast and it is exploding

the hockey stick up and to the right the numbers are scary it's um

probably surprising to some of your friends how popular you are it's distressing it's distressing you

are the answering questions about life and about relationships and we'll throw those in with the money questions today folks since he's sitting here beside me we both like getting into the boundary questions and the questions about spouses and relationships and crazy brother-in-laws and all that crap and the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five

five two two five let's start with

maria this hour in chicago hi maria welcome to the ramsay show hi dave very excited to talk to you thank you so much um my question my question is this it's going to be uh well i guess i'll ask the question first and then i'll give you the background okay is it financial is it friendly just financially speaking not not regarding how i feel about home ownership just financially speaking i'm 58 years old i

i have no debt i have fully funded emergency fund i have fully funded retirement both roth and 401k how much i own my how much is in it

there's about a million in it okay good for you well done between the between the both i raised my four kids they're all out of college um i'm single and i my house home's worth about 350 and i paid it off it's paid off okay taxes are really high taxes are really high in illinois

okay but anyway so i i think i want to downsize because i don't need my house anymore cool and i'm not i i so i would go to

like a townhouse okay so just financially just financially speaking it wouldn't be a really bad idea for the next 30 years for me just to rent and the reason why i asked that is because in my heart i've had so much responsibility in my whole life raising my four kids keeping up with my house i wouldn't mind just writing a check every month and just be done and uh finally but everybody's telling me like financially speaking you could sell your house to 350. go buy

something for 250 or less i'm like but then i thought you know then i gotta worry about the house again the windows the roofs the gutters that all that you know [Music] the question no yeah it makes a lot of sense i understand so uh did you raise your kids by yourself or your single mom for the most part i mean i was divorced and they were very very young he was he was so for 20 years for 20 years you've been a she-bear out here fighting

scratching clawing and you've cleaned the gutters you've done whatever it took and you're just tired yes i work overtime every month at work sure i was yeah i thought you were there i thought you were that girl you sound like that girl you sound like a warrior a warrior princess um

so uh well let's first answer your

question then let's try to look for a solution okay the problem with your the good part about your theory is you don't have to screw with stuff because the landlord does so you get all this stuff out of your life the bad part about this is think about what rents have done

in the last 30 years

and think about what they're going to do during the 30 years that we're talking so if you rent instead of owning a paid for property going into retirement you're destabilizing your life because every year your housing cost is going to go up true so that's why it's a bad plan

it's not a bad plan to rent for a short period of time while you're rearranging things or you're in a transitionary stage or something like that but renting for 30 years means you are a

victim of the real estate market instead of riding the wave can i throw

something else at you yep okay so i put down on paper because

this has been like uh stressing me out so i put down on paper my taxes versus all my bills in my house i think you need to move okay but like i i even projected class if i was in the townhouse yeah here's what here's what i want you to here's what i would do if you're my little sister and you're old enough to be my little sister okay oh i'm not not your older sister no i'm

60 so i got you beat but the uh uh

but so uh i would tell you

you don't want to work on crap and you don't want crap breaking and you are a millionaire so you need to go a buy a brand new condominium

where someone does all the exterior maintenance and every appliance and everything inside is brand freaking new you earned it you're a rock star and you need to enjoy a little bit of this money and it's like buying a really nice car that's in really good shape after you've been driving a freaking beater and it breaks down all the time and you know my cars don't break down now back when i had crap cars

because i was trying to get here they broke down all the time but you're you're a warrior girl and you need to you need to enjoy the spoils of the battles that you have

won and that's a million dollars in a 350 000 paid for house you're worth a million and a half dollars i want you to sell this house i want you buy 350 000 condo you may want to move

uh to an area that is that probably

might feel a little bit oh like it's a little too richie rich for you but you need to live there anyway wow okay i'll think about this thank you very good information what do you think john yeah i think that transition when you it's when you're a single mom when you're raising kids and you're putting them through college and you're saving you're working you're doing overtime it's kind of like being gazelle intense for 20 30 years yeah

and suddenly your uh your identity is i'm a sprinter i'm a fighter that's what i do yeah and how do you settle back down you could hear like man for someone who's accomplished what she's accomplished the fact that this decision is keeping her up means it's not about this decision it's about i've got to shift gears and become something else right that's a big big transition yeah what do

you do when you come home from a 20-year campaign

on the road with alexander the great and you're one of his soldiers after 20 years how do you stop fighting and scratching you will

pick from your neighbors with your dog how do you stop it you know and so you know and that's what she is she's a warrior princess that's right and so you know she's been these single moms man they get her done these are some of the toughest people in our planet and um so yeah that that's uh uh

and that's who she is and and she's like i you know she's kind of telling herself good things like i deserve a rest that's right and dave we talk a lot about people making decisions out of stress or out of um anxiousness that's very

similar to making decisions out of exhaustion i'm just i'm done i'm out right i just want to i know the math is bad i know it's going to destabilize me 20 years from now i'm exhausted i don't want to fix anything i'm excited i don't want to talk to any more freaking repairmen i've talked to people who get divorced because i'm just tired of it right so

i love your i love your idea of man right now it feels good it's not going to be good down the road no it's a bad long-term plan yeah yeah i would buy something brand and investigate the builder make sure it's an incredibly high-end high-quality builder

so you are living in a luxury situation in terms of the service you're going to be provided as well as the goods love it you've earned it you're a millionaire way to go this

is the ramsey show

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cliff and i joined christian healthcare ministries because we really liked the concept of christians sharing each other's burdens and we really experienced that firsthand when cliff was diagnosed with heart disease christian health care ministries or chm is not health insurance

but rather a federally approved exemption to the health care law it's a time-tested model to help take care of your health care costs it's christians helping other christians by sharing each other's medical bills adjusting to a new system of paying for health care was kind of tricky but that's where chm stepped in and they really helped navigate that water with the hospital and the payment want to see if chm is the right fit for your health care needs check out our website at chministries.org backslash budget that's chministries.org

backslash budget it was just such a

relief to know that financial burden was going to be taken care of

dr john dolone ramsey personality is my

co-host today so if you have questions about life relationships mental health

questions as well challenges even

give us a call anxiety depression all these kinds of things show up here they show up on the dr john delony show all the time as well got a wonderful best-selling book out of one of our quick reads it's an 80-page quick read called redefining anxiety

and of course you can uh email john if you want to have your question answered on the dr john dolone show if you want to be on his podcast it is a a uh a talk radio type podcast

format like this is so email ask john ramsey

solutions dot com ask john ramsey solutions dot com or you

can leave a voicemail at 844-693-3291

or you can get in by calling right now triple eight eight two five five two two five the lines are full but we'll get you in quick as we can our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping new promos all the time and always use the promo code ramsey it's magical it'll save

you money john our question today's question comes from josephine in nebraska what a great name we're on baby step two with about 20 000 dollars in debt left to pay off which will take about 18 months i had an opportunity to pick up a side hustle that's in my sweet spot that would allow us to shave off at least nine months off baby step two when i told my husband about

this his first response oh boy

can you even i can't imagine saying this to our world can you read it can you can you even read it his first response was then i'll have to do everything around the house so in order to avoid an argument i declined the job now the same opportunity's been offered to me again i spoke to him about it and get the same response how do i deal with this selfishness two before i was gonna say i i think my wife

would stab me in the forehead with a fork i mean come on good

god what a child what an immature i don't know man what a child little boy yeah i you're gonna be

miserable you'll be miserable dude until you wake up and learn how to serve other people our greatest joy comes

in serving others it is a paradox

right it doesn't sound like it but you're you're gonna be most happy young man when you learn to serve

and um and by the way this woman is not

gonna you're gonna be doing everything around your house in short order my brother because you're gonna be the only one there buddy the only one there she's uh

or you may not be living that's yeah one of the two you got a fork in your you know you've been duct taped to something when you're asleep you know oh my gosh josephine you got i mean yeah when you're dealing with someone this immature this um unwilling to

to hear your heart on a number of different things man because this is bigger than just paying off this is about it's bigger than housework yes man this is about you finding yourself everything's about him okay uh here's

now all now that we've vented and uh are mad at the little wuss um let's how do you actually fix this i

would say if you're not in a good church and there are good churches and there are toxic misses but find a good church where the people are healthy mentally spiritually emotionally find an

older couple and get them involved in your life and that guy in that older couple will take your husband out in the backyard and explain things to him explain things don't you think yeah i mean or get a good pastor involved or even get to a marriage counselor not now junior birdman here is not going to marriage counseling because he's too cool for school but uh you need to go

and learn how to talk to him about how this is going to end up for him because my experience with this stuff john i'm not i'm i don't have the phds and all this other stuff i've just watched it too often even in our friends group over the years you know you go through the stages of everybody's getting married then everybody's having kids then everybody's getting divorced that's right

and so you know and i've done enough financial coaching over the 30 years that i see this ladies in particular and i don't know it's not sexist i think it's um they they they boil

until they reach a point and then when the switch flips it's off they're done right you can't get them back you can't reel it back in guys will kind of go

out there and then come back and we're back in right but uh you know once she flip once her switch flips uh junior birdman you're in trouble yeah because you will have lost her she will not be you cannot retrace these steps right because she will put up with this and i don't want first i didn't want to or our argument now she's out saying it out loud how do

i deal with this selfishness and then if this just continues and he doesn't get better she's going to have enough and there's nobody can talk her out of it there's no amount of bible teaching about divorce it's going to work she's just going to be done because somebody for the second time has told her i value you and i'd like you to come join us right and somebody in her childhood didn't tell her that

this guy surely didn't tell her that and this is bigger than a job this is somebody saying hey man i see something valuable in you so much come join us and that's what somebody says no to right that's what somebody says i'm gonna go towards where somebody values me right and so josephine you gotta have you gotta get somebody else that you can talk to about this

and because there's bigger stuff here but at the end of the day you're gonna have to have dave you said it i'll say it in a nerdier way you're gonna have to have your or what conversation and you gotta have somebody with some wisdom before you do that otherwise you're gonna react and i don't want it to build up i want you to get some tools to let

this to by incrementally

increase the heat under him instead of you just increasing the heat inside of you and you finally just blow up and the switch flips and you're done right because that's that's what this i i see this a lot yeah and i don't i

don't i don't i understand when the switch flips right when you're dealing with this type of immaturity i get it all you can work on [Laughter] we got one sentence right and we're already through with him how can he get through the dead come good josephine yeah man and can you imagine dylan's sharing this oh i'm just trying to think of saying sheila oh oh oh you don't even want to think about

it what what how a hillbilly woman react to that that would not be good i'm just saying she would you give you a look that would say like chapters no my skin would peel off like indiana jones too it would just all blow off it would melt it would melt off your eyes would blow out of your head yeah like when they when they touched the ark of

the covenant man

yeah josephine i'm so sorry man yeah and whoever this guy's if your wife comes to you and says hey i i've got an opportunity to help i want to help too let your first response be awesome

let's it's going to be some stuff we got to figure out but let's figure it out i will work on this together it does mean i'm going to have to pick up all the housework but let's talk about this yeah you know that's a one way to answer this is like yeah yeah i like sitting on my butt in the recliner

man i'll tell you what oh we do have

we do have a manhood crisis in america real men know how to serve and vacuum and vacuum

that's serving i know it's one thing especially when it's you're dirt on the floor godly

dude i don't do the dishes yes you do they're yours

williams in new york city hey william what's up william william hung up william is married to josephine yes i'm here i'm sorry i was on mute oh that's okay my fault how can we help

dave pleasure for having me i appreciate it um so just kind of sum it up i'm 27 i make

about 70 uh k a year plus stock incentives

i contribute about six percent to a raw 401k been doing it since day one and i also commit uh 10 percent to uh stocks via our employee purchase program um which has a 15 um they all do

discount which is great they all do um i have about 10 in a private uh i had about 15

sorry i had about 25 and see any credit card how much how much do you have in in employee stock um currently about 15 grand cash it out and pay off your debt cash it i'll pay it off yep okay

and dude i wouldn't be putting that much money into that a 15 discount's not that much go back and pull your company stock and pull the charts on it and look how much it moves in a 12-month period of time you'll see 15 so your little discount

could go away and evaporate in about 13 seconds so i'm not playing single

stocks and i'm gonna use that money and get out of debt build your emergency fund hey thanks for the call

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dr john deloney ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today

on the debt-free stage in the ramsey solutions lobby tori and kayla are with us hey guys how are you hey how's it going welcome welcome where are y'all from oh welcome to nashville very cool and all the way up here to do a debt free screen got it how much have you paid off 140 590 dollars and 88 cents

well done how long did that take uh

three years 11 months wow and your range of income during that time started at about 90 and we got it all the way up to uh 175 that last year wow that's impressive

so what kind of debt was the 141 000

mostly student loans uh we had about 120

in student loans and the rest was just miscellaneous credit cards car personal loans and stuff yeah yeah

you were just normal how old are you guys i'm 32 i'm 30. okay

how long you been married four years almost five years in june yeah okay faster than that man so this started this started uh right after you got married then yeah yes right after yeah so what was the story what got you going well back in college uh one of my roommates he gave me your book and so i read it fastest book i ever read and uh

i was just fired up after that and so i come to her i can't remember if it was immediately after i read it but sometime i came to her like man look at this we got to do this we're going to do this and she's kind of like yeah

i always planned on doing that so after that we just we got started a couple months after i read the book put a plan in place and got started so you got married and went after it yep and really didn't have to talk anybody into it didn't have to talk about it she was just waiting for you to come to your senses i guess so

yep exactly man well done you guys my college roommates didn't give me books they gave me all kind of other stuff and not books good for you man it's funny because when i opened the book he had question marks everywhere as if he was questioning everything you said

you're studying finance so i guess ah okay yeah well finance professors either love me or they hate me yeah and so they uh they um well anyway we'll

move on from that so what do you guys do for a living i'm a speech therapist yeah and now during that four years i was a teacher but um now i'm self-employed okay cool i love your sweatshirts did you have those made or is that a thing i don't know about be intentional yeah my mom made them be intentional yep okay because it's all about this journey you've been on

there that's it no one wins by accident not at all it's an intentional series of steps and you've been doing it for three years and 11 months and that's just poured over into everything in our lives you know from work to our marriage just doing

everything on purpose you gotta do everything on purpose it's just been our motto i like that yep doing everything on purpose wow that's so good you guys well i just saw the thing flash up on youtube so you got several of these t-shirts yeah yeah i thought i saw a picture fly by okay there it is yeah okay yeah good that's that you may have a whole clothing line going here for

you know it i'm gonna go buy one after the show i like that there you go i like that very cool well done you guys all right

how many of your peers your friend group

coming straight out of college getting married thought you were nuts and how many of them are cheering you on

they didn't really say if they thought we were nuts they weren't that brave they didn't but but i don't i don't think it was that i think you know everybody for the most part was very supportive um which helped us out because we wanted to do the things they were doing and you know buy the house straight out of college like that but you know but you didn't

we didn't we rented we're still renting we're in the process of buying our first home now so yeah good for you it was it was it was hard but you know

i think for the most part they were pretty supportive they didn't tell us if they weren't what about you kayla are you getting good stories on that i don't think so yeah everyone was really supportive um

yeah there's no one who was like what in the world we don't think this is the right thing to do did he do it did either of you ever have moments where the other one had to pick pick you up because it was getting hard man i really need another car or i really want to go out tonight uh our cars our cars just started on cars man

it got to the point where i was like man forget this and that's part of the story where we had the one of the most important things i think was you know we have to really define our why because our why is what really kept us going and what's your why our why you know change our family tree when i read that book you know i saw what could be

and it just sparked hope and like you said hope deferred makes the heart sick and we were we once you have hope anything's possible and i feel like we're unstoppable we're unstoppable now we can do anything i feel like we do anything you definitely are you know so wow well done way to go you guys very cool excellent work excellent work okay what's the story on this income going from 90 to 175 in three years yeah well

we were like i said we were teachers i was we were both in education and uh i started uh there's an online platform for freelance work so it's an app you can just go on and yeah hire anybody you want for anything so i started doing everything you could on there like tackle or something like that exactly it's just like that it's called taskrabbit so you know

i was scrubbing toilets i was move

i was i'm showing grind painting i was doing everything i could what was the thing you did that made the most money for the shortest time when i was first started it was cleaning which i wish it wasn't but that's what it was but now i do a lot of mounting tvs and

uh yeah a year and a half ago i didn't know how to do any of it my dad he's uh you know he's got his own home repair business so he's taught me a lot in youtube okay if i didn't know how to do it i youtubed it okay and then you go and act like you knew how and did it exactly all right i like that that's gutsy man that's exactly right

and i know you've missed being in the classroom this past year huh oh my gosh wow it's been a tough year for teachers huh it's been tough i had some of my teacher friends they just told me you got it at the right time mm-hmm it's been real tough and speech pathology that's a tough gig man working with little ones elementary

man i've got the kind of like a teacher it's also rewarding though isn't it you're changing family trees there too yeah absolutely yeah that's so important i miss my kids but you know yeah i think i'm gonna stay what i'm doing yeah well you're killing it you guys are doing so good so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is you did it you paid off 141 dollars in three years and eleven months be intentional basically i like the shirt dave yeah i

think the main thing is you gotta you you know we we talk we dream all the time i mean our date nights was riding around neighborhoods and houses that we wanted to live in and we still do it to this day i like that you know so dairy queen who was earlier that's our

dave ramsey dead okay hey dip cones baby

all day so but yeah just i think having your why like i said earlier you you got to have a why and um it has to be defined in hd like chris hogan says and and i got got up on the fridge

and just reminding yourself all the time because it gets not if it gets hard when it gets hard it's going to get hard very hard i'm not gonna lie sucked winning is not hard the price you pay to win is what's hard yeah exactly it sucked but that's excellent you know we just kept reminding ourselves of that why and stayed with it i love the driving around looking at houses

you want to be in some day yep the together together doing that together yeah and that that's a big deal that's kind of like you know like chris hogan talks about dreaming in hd that's it and there it is right there 3d hd in front of you you know it's real it's really happening so well well done we got a copy of chris's book for you every day millionaires that is

the next chapter in your story without a doubt absolutely very very well done tori and kayla dallas texas 141 000 paid off in three years 11

months making 90 to 175 the key is be intentional count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

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coming out of school the first thing they do the first order of business is set this pattern in their relationship that's gonna work in every other area of their relationship going forward they set a success pattern up here it's unbelievable and i did the exact i got out of school and was in more debt after my first year of working than before because i wasn't intentional i was an idiot

and i was trying to keep up with the joneses i don't even want to talk about it i got you beat so there you go not these guys these guys are rock stars not tori and kayla on purpose boom this is the ramsay show

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how would you like to work on something that causes torya and kayla to be able to change their lives that's what we do here at ramsey solutions we transform lives we want to transform so many that disruption starts spreading like wildfire across our country imagine a day where it's weird to have a student loan where it's weird to borrow money to buy a car where

the credit card has been declared the cigarette of the financial industry where you do work that you love where you know how to get along and do relationships because dr john dolone has intersected with his information your life and it's changed everything imagine being part of causing that level of disruption with the work you do well that's what we do we got about a thousand folks here

we are adding 360 this calendar year we're just finishing up another building next door to put everybody in and if you want to join this crusade we're currently on the hunt for software engineers ruby on rails java c-sharp front-end technologies ux designers seo folks content folks marketing specialists digital marketing specialists and a lot of other stuff if you are a senior developer i can promise you we want to talk to

you we want to talk to everybody though if you want to find out about the jobs that are available and you want to do work that actually matters and you want to actually go home at six o'clock or five o'clock rather than work 80 hours a week we don't work 80 hours a week we go home with our families find out about the jobs available at daveramsey.com click

the dave's hiring tab on the right hand side of the page

that just reminded me man when i was a kid in college i used to tell us you know eighty percent of the jobs that y'all will work one day don't exist yet all those things you just settled off you don't know what they even are right and i only know what they are in the last 36 months so because i've had to learn as the ceo otherwise because i was like we're paying 225 000 a year for what exactly for you something

and so you start finding out oh that's what they do yeah okay i get that that makes sense wow open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five john is with us john is in

san diego hi john how are you

hi how's it going dave and john it's a pleasure to talk with you guys you too what's up um

so my mother is getting

what would you call it a um a gift from my grandmother selling her house and she's about to receive

probably around 150 000

and she wants to use that to buy a house here and basically the problem is my father's kind of hesitant because he's been burned in the past um we lost their house back in the 08 crisis and he's just afraid of like uh basically something happening in the future and not being able to uh hold on to the house basically that's understandable so what's the question um so i so um he

actually wants me to co-sign with him because my mother is actually getting back to work um he feels that his credit isn't

up to up to a certain amount that would get him the loan even with the 20 yeah no

yeah no way no you don't co-sign for anyone ever think about what you just asked you asked my dad is so scared that something bad is going to happen again that this time he wants to attach me to it right yeah because that's why i wasn't sure about doing that yeah no you're super sure you know it's just hard when your dad says hey man i'm so scared that i'm going to drown

i want to chain myself to you so if i drown you john too how about that and i know that's not what he's saying at all but it is actually what he's saying that's what he's done that's what he's going to do it's not what he meant so the answer is no yeah it is not good for him and it's not good for you to co-sign if

they are not in a position to buy a home they need to do the things they need to do to get in a position to buy a home now we can alleviate your dad's fears

of buying a home and something bad happening you're not going to lose your home your own it's very rare for you to lose your home if you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you have no other debt but the home and you buy a home where the payments no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate now those are ramsay guidelines on buying a home

if he does all of that which i suspect since his credit sucks that he has debt and he has some outstanding bad debt doesn't he actually he's getting out of baby step two i think he only owes about three thousand dollars on his car okay then he had some old bad done okay he did yeah he had some back back taxes and yeah other debt is that

and that's all paid now yes that's good that's great well let's get through six months of expenses built up or hold that back out of the 150 one of the two and it's okay if he sits there and rents for uh six months to a year with absolutely zero debt except that rental his credit will start to heal

but i would never i never tell anyone to cosign i i have cosigned for people and had the opportunity to pay the bill the reason a bank wants a cosigner is because they don't think the main signer is going to pay it's always a signal to me when a when a business that tells me loaning money i won't take your money yeah right i love loaning money but not to

this guy without your help right so that instead of it being an insult it should be a signal right there you go that's it and and it's you're not being disloyal to your dad as a matter of fact quite the contrary you're being loyal to him because here's what's going to happen you're going to move on with your last five or six years they're going to move on everything's going to be okay you're on

the stinking loan and you decide it's time to buy a house because you got married or you and your wife currently go decide to buy a house and guess what you can't cause you have this contingent liability called a co-signature on his it's going to bring you down keep you from buying a house or every time he pays late you know what it does it dings your credit or

he gets sick and can't work and suddenly you are having to work to pay his house payment because it's your house payment because you signed for it too proverbs 13 is not

proverbs 13 17 proverbs 17 18

says one lacking incense

cosigns for another that's the new king james version if you read the contemporary english version it says it is stupid to cosign it's exactly what

it says i thought that was the dave ramsey no it's a contemporary english version it's a real version of the bible it says it's stupid to cosign yeah

because of the whole premise is you're

going to end up paying it i don't know i don't know a family that doesn't have some sort of discord in it because somebody signed for a student loan somebody borrowed money from their borrow money from grandpa whatever i mean this is this this in this incestuous handling of

money is uh it's it's just a disaster please don't do it john i know you're i know i know you want to do good by your dad but just smile be kind be love and say dad i love you i love you and i want good things for you i'm and and me being on this loan is not a good thing for you or me um i'm going to be your biggest cheerleader i'm so proud of what you've done getting these debts paid off and being on baby step two encouraging but don't co-sign for him

and parents that would agree that would be the same thing for your children kids in those that said no but the opposite is don't co-sign for your kids to get a house no you know i'm trying to help my baby in a house yeah

leave your grown children to be grown yes it's an it's a novel idea a helicopter

and so so i have you have heard this term i was speaking coleman and i were talking about this yesterday i guess i've got a friend that works in educa in the education field coaching

school administrators and and

teachers and so on and she said you were at dinner she was telling she said you know there's all these new terms now she said you know what a helicopter parent is oh yeah i know i definitely know what helicopter they'd fly in you know pick up you know take care of everything yeah she said do you know what a lawnmower parent is do you no i do not i've not heard that what is that not it's a true thing though huh what is

it they cut the grass out in front of them so that they don't have any hard times assuring that they will never know how to handle hard times not if assuring they never know how to walk through tall grass wow no i've never heard that before that's lawnmower parents lawnmower parents are the next step after you're a helicopter parent and it's continuing to deteriorate

so the great the greatest these are all these great phrases for codependent the greatest parenting thing was my wife i went to help hank i know him to fall down and she said he's gonna fall down once and that was the greatest like let him fall then he won't climb back up on that anymore oh she's so wise

tough that puts this hour the ramsay

show in the books

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice

dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today he's the guy that does the dr john dolone show oddly enough and uh it's a wonderful podcast that is exploding where we deal with your issues

about life relationships mental health challenges boundaries family things it's all woven

in together and guess what it's all woven in together here at on the ramsay show as well and always has been for the last 30 years so it's perfect that he's here to help the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five you've got questions for dr john and or me we will definitely both jump in triple eight eight two five five two two five mark's with us in seattle hey mark how are

you hey good gentlemen how are you guys doing great man what's up uh first off just wanted to give you guys thanks for uh you know everything that you guys do uh my parents are big rambears they went through your class through church and all that they just kind of taught me everything and i pass along my brother-in-law's who are big listeners i'm sure they're even listening now just had a quick question for

you i'm getting out of the military here soon within the next year a lot of baby steps four and five right now i have two kids and all that i got about 15k in the savings uh and

when i get out we're looking at moving back home to florida or home for us uh back to

florida the question with that is my wife is

able to transfer she's a government contractor she makes uh between 20 and 25 000 a year

but i don't know what i'm going to do yet and so we're trying to figure out when we go back to florida if it would be smart for us to you know finally

get the house that we've wanted we've been nothing but renters our entire life finally get uh get the house we want or should we continue renting

until i can find a nice steady job um

and basically go from there

you're not gonna get the house you want with twenty five thousand dollar year income yeah did you say she makes 25 grand a year or 125 yeah uh 25 25 grand a year we got

about 15 000 in savings this is

my man yeah i wouldn't even transfer just go get a job at starbucks make 25 grand okay yeah so no no you don't you don't have enough income to buy a house that you're going to be pleased with okay and so i have the gi bill that uh

doesn't matter they don't they don't give you houses they don't qualify you for houses under the va for that you can't afford okay

we'll if i went that route we'd still be getting uh i'd be getting about 1600 a month for

the housing allowance uh as well as

me working either part-time if we go that route oh wait wait a minute you're talking about the gi you're not talking about the gi bill to buy a house you're talking about you're going back to school yeah oh and you're one you want to take the stipend and do that on top of hers no you need to you need to rent until you're out of school yeah runs until i'm out of school yeah what are you going to study uh right now i'm just working on my uh

just general associates and then from there i got a couple of different things i'm looking at uh possible uh looking at nursing degree

um my eyes are kind of open right now uh

i'm kind of getting out of the military earlier than i expected okay so we're just kind of open anything right now thank you for your service and you have this wonderful benefit to have education at your fingertips education with no game plan as to where it's going to take you is known as a waste of time

so you need to spend the next few months dialing in a detailed career path and game plan

that then will tell you what kind of education you need to get you may not need a four-year degree you may want to go into technology and get some microsoft certs i don't know i don't know what you're going to do you may want to go in the real estate business in which case you don't need a four-year degree you need a real estate license i don't know what you're going to do with your life but you need to dial that in and don't just go to school because it's there

that's going to take you nowhere john's

got a phd in higher education am i wrong no i do and i've worked with veterans for years who they get out and then they come and they just start going to school and think they're going to figure it out on the way and then you you know those that are dialed in and there is man there are a few students as as that you want in your class more than a dialed in veteran who knows what they're going

after it's got a game plan thank goodness for this benefit that i think they they fully deserve but yeah i'd rather see you go work for a year go be a nurse's aide go work in a hospital go do something and see is this what i want to do don't want to dedicate the next four to six years of my life doing this you do not have to go straight into school out of

the military okay in order to you know it does it does not invalidate your gi bill

right and yeah the only the only thing is uh trying to set up something uh like i said i had the two kids and all that so we're gonna need that some type of income uh coming in and her uh her salary isn't gonna really cut it that's right that's exactly that's what my point is and so buying a house is down the road yeah your big the big thing in front of you is to you know you got you got one year

so let's set some deadlines and say 90 days from today we will have spent enough time in prayer in discussion and reading and learning and uh visiting some people that are in different career fields that's right talking to real cr you know reading everything ken coleman writes uh and learning about careers and where you're going to go to have dialed in and then you say i've got nine months to get prepared to start knocking out the things that are

that are going to allow me to go be one of those after you've decided what one of those is go do that be one of those then talk

about buying a house how many people over the years dave have you talked to veterans who come in and they get that house-buying quote-unquote benefit then they find themselves stuck i used to live one of the colleges i worked at was next to a base and it just felt like there was a rotation they got a stipend to live off base and they just go by a house

and then in two years they're getting shipped out somewhere getting sent out yeah it's a mess they were had no money down so they're upside down upside down yep they're stuck just feels like people got stuck a lot yeah the va loan the sad thing is the va loan

for housing is supposed to be a nice benefit now the education loan is a nice benefit but the va loan actually sucks oh yeah

for two reasons one is it's actually more expensive it's a higher interest rate and higher fees which is absolutely ridiculous you would think that if you're going to give the veterans a benefit that it would be cheaper it would be better than everybody that's right it's not so there you go there's your veterans administration working for you but then the uh uh the second thing is is

they do have this zero down idea which means the seller pays all the closing costs you literally can walk in and sign the papers with not a dollar and buy a house but you can never walk out that back door again exactly but then you owe 100

more than 100 by the time all the stuff's rolled into the thing of what the house is actually worth you know how long it takes to get out of that five to seven years before you've got enough equity to sell it and break even and that geez louise yeah this is it's a

nightmare it's a trap

you know don't step there it's gonna rip

your leg off and i know you want to come home get plugged in get a house get those kids everything's stable just hang it there man hang in there va didn't mean for that to be a trap they were trying to be nice but nothing down is not nice nothing down screws you over and at a higher interest rate than you could have gotten if you put down a good down payment so no you don't want that benefit you're right it's a strap it's a trip this is the ramsey show

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dr john deloney ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us

here on the ramsey show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five well folks

2020 was crazy and your 2020 taxes are gonna be crazy

so uh first you need to you know some of you got unemployment did you know that's taxable by the way yes that's taxable income um another big thing to keep in mind was remote working if you left your resident state to work remotely from another state you may have to pay taxes in two different states how joyful is that come on man

well not always the case it depends on the state you live in depends on the state you worked in and if you lived and worked in different states you need to look into state taxes and you know how this works it's complicated if you're unsure if

2020 has made your taxes different take our tax quiz it's free

it'll tell you if your situation is simple enough to do with tax software or if you're better off hiring a pro text the word tax quiz to 33789 and you'll

find out what your tax situation really looks like will help guide you and we can hook you up with the best the ramsey smart tax software or with one of the elps for taxes the pros whatever we need to do to help you we're going to help you text tax quiz no spaces

to 33789

and just so people know that's the tax stuff i'm using for my taxes for my family it's great man just like that charles is in toledo hey charles how are you i am

great uh glad that i found you on the radio mostly i'm sorry on on my heart actually a friend of mine years ago introduced me to some of your methods not to you so that kind of slowed my

progress down a lot i could have been doing a lot more sooner but i am uh 50 um pretty much debt free except

for mortgage and when i start putting in

it's a zero percent mortgage so it kind of doesn't make sense to really save a lot of money to skip the 401k to pay that off but i can do that but so the point is

um does

the financial peace university or the

dam ramsey plus teach me

how much of my money i can spend

where for example i like to take my wife

and kids out to dinner but i don't know i can't find online how much am i allowed to allocate towards that per month i'm a late saver uh just you know

i only have about 20 000 in my roth ira at the moment

so i do want to put in as much as i can

in july i'm eligible for a rough

401k but they will match seven percent so i want to do that that's great well budget percentages would change depending on your situation if you're in what we call baby step two meaning you're clearing off all your debts except your home and i think that's where you said you are you know if you're already past baby step two then uh you know yes you can allocate some

you can lighten up your percentages and allocate some for fun some for restaurants and vacations and those kinds of things if you are in the get out of debt mode gazelle intensity and baby step two the the allocated percentage for restaurants is zero the allocated percentage for vacation is zero while you work your way out of debt

and it's not like dave ramsey's punishing somebody like some of these idiots say on social media but it's more like uh this is how you win right you have to pay a price to get out of debt it's how i won you have to pay a price to get out of debt it's not easy it's hard now but but as you go along yes there are some uh guidelines we've got some percentages

some of them are in the back of the different books

in uh for instance total money makeover i think there's a percentage guidelines on the in the forms section in the back of the book they'll analog forms i don't think there are percentages in every dollar if i remember in the budgeting app which is really what i recommend you use but if you're just looking for some guidelines there's that now one that is well known as we tell folks not to have more than 25 of your income take home pay going out in housing your house payment

and uh so there you are uh but

you know what what ends up happening is this the percentages don't matter as much as every dollar that goes to one thing can't go to another and once you start doing that with your spouse then you say then you come to an agreed amount for restaurants right and it's you know and so if you make 70 000 a year the agreed amount for restaurants is not 700 a month right

because you can't hit your other goals and you're going to make those decisions automatically when you're looking at it um but there's not a magic formula that says you know if you just limit your restaurants to this but but instead you start making wise decisions that everything every budget category is a trade-off putting money in one by definition means there's no money for the other one and

i like what rachel talks about is asking yourself that next layer which is why are you buying that are you buying another shirt do you have money in your clothing budget because you actually need new clothes great are you buying stuff new clothes because

you're that's that's your addiction right yeah that is a way you're wallpapering over some some other stuff you'd be dealing with so i like to ask myself and the eating out thing is that that's right it's not for showing off for other people but you know why are we eating out so much right is it because we don't like spending time at home is because one of us doesn't want to cook or doesn't like to cook or

we can't get to the store or is it just because at the end of the day we just it's a form of entertainment that's right you know and so are we you know what's going on with that why is it why are we doing that doug's with us in tampa hey doug welcome to the ramsay show hi mr ramsey i'm dr john i'm a little nervous but um here

it goes okay

uh um a wonderful woman a few months ago

after moving down here from pittsburgh and um there's a large gap in our income where i'm at about 60 000 and she makes about 175 000

has a house that's valued at over 400 000 dollars she sounds like a wonderful woman [Laughter] she is she is and she's listening at home working and you know i've been down this road

before in 2010 met somebody and

uh married her and nine months later

i was diagnosed with leukemia however in

the meantime we were trying to buy a house and i had no credit and in order to get approved for a mortgage i had to take out credit cards long story short three and a half years later she divorced me before my cancer treatments were over and i i ended up moving into my own

place wow how can we best help you today doug

okay well how do i i see a future with

this woman but i've tried to convince her if she gives me a hundred thousand dollars i'll give her two percent cash back and she says well i won't have things but if you're so confused why would she give you a hundred thousand dollars well for credit cards she's she likes to

use credit card stuff oh you know and i'm saying you know you talk about that yeah the metaphor i thought you just met a girl like hey babe give me a hundred thousand dollars yeah

that's a problem so okay here's the thing the number one

cause of divorce in north america today's money fights and money problems and john will tell you an all good phds in

psychology will tell you you're not really fighting about money you're really fighting about what's important to you power control control life options margins

and so um until you guys can work your

way through this and get on the same page about money the relationship is stalled right

and she's not better than you because she makes more money than you and you are not better than her because of feeling like y'all got to come at this at equals who cares who's making the most money right now right or or what the really what the past is that's right the pass just makes you want to address it right which is a good thing but um

if you can agree on your money principles and on your spending you are agreeing about your whole freaking life right because those things flow around it and and when you cannot then you know

you're stalled until you can and so i would recommend you guys jump in you can jump in and go through ramsey plus jump in there together and start taking some of the classes together it gives you a point of reference to talk through some of these things and you know as this goes forward you may want to do some pre-marriage counseling that will get you there as well don't marry someone that you're not on the same page with about money this is the ramsey show

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now we love doing debt-free screams on the ramsey show we particularly love doing debt-free screams live in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage we really love doing debt-free screams

on the in the lobby on the debt-free stream stage when it's one of our own ramsey team members and kate cameron is with us on the stage

and half the dadgum building is out here to watch to cheer her on to do her debt-free scream there's hundreds of people out here this is a little nervous yeah yeah [Laughter] we're up here doing a world-class radio show there's about three people milling around out here you walk up here and the whole blaze shuts down that comes out here a lot of support that's for sure very cool very cool how much debt you paid off kate 25 564 cool how long did this take

12 months 12 months i will not ask your income because your peers are standing around and that would be unfair so what kind of debt was the 26 000

it was all student loans all right very

cool very cool okay so now you've been with us about what three years it'll be two uh next week okay all right

two years and you're in the ramsey education department meaning you work with the high schools and the k-12 right yes i do and what do you do there so i talk with our teachers and administrators and i get them to have our curriculum for the students yeah be able to teach foundations and personal finance exactly some of the 48 of the high schools in america that teach it and you're it's all your fault well done

well done so you've been here for two years and it sounds like you've been working on this process about that period of time then so does the story have something to do with joining us and so you're like oh i guess i better do this stuff yeah so um when i first moved down here i was really excited and a funny story you know i had my car break down

before i moved down here from michigan so i was like you know what i love this job i'm meant to be here i know i am so i moved into an apartment right next to the old building actually so i walked to work walked to the grocery store for about three months and then i was really thankful like while i was saving up i had my family friend just gift me a car

so it's just one of those things that things just work in your favor when you're following god right and so

after taking fpo i was like i really need to be doing this i need to be doing it the right way and so i finally decided after actually taking it twice to just say i'm going to be gazelle intense so my 2020 goal is i'm i'm debt free that's my 2020 goal and you did it during the pandemic then yes of course your pay didn't stop here so that didn't that that wasn't interrupted but uh our lives were all turned upside down anyway yeah so how old are you i'm 26.

classroom and so um it was after i went through fpu that i'm like listen i need to be doing this i know i can do it i have a stable income like there's no excuse so i think the hardest part when i was actually in the journey was saying like i know i can do this i'm gonna do my discipline god's gonna provide and just continue to

get excited about the process so you were your neck deep in it and then we uh we put everybody in the auditorium downstairs covet hits and we said okay um here's

what we're going to do everybody we're going to start working from home and if we don't keep revenues up it's not going to go well right and you know leadership won't take pay first but eventually if we don't get revenue in this place it's going to cost start costing people jobs you know i made that announcement and you're sitting there pouring all your money onto debt and gave all your savings up

you had to be freaking out yeah a little bit and i'm in a sales role so of course that's always uncertainty but i had faith in god and i

was at the time working at um like part-time for a catering company serving there and of course with catering companies it's usually like big events weddings that kind of thing and so that ended too so it was like okay one thing after another but um i found another job serving and bartending and i was like i'm gonna put my work in and god will provide and he did

and i'm really thankful to be here and of course sales went down because the school administrators weren't there to buy curriculum for from you and then they came back up right yeah so it's turned out okay by the end of the year but it's been quite a roller coaster you went through emotionally while you did this i'm so proud of you thank you that was tough yeah

and you're

coming to work every day your job was to talk to people who were completely frazzled all day long too and i talk a lot about secondary traumatic stress you experience that tell me about that yeah um daily i would have teachers be like i don't even know what's going on i don't know about curriculum i don't know about anything and i'm like okay we're gonna make it through guys like

i promise it'll be okay one way or another we're gonna get these students through so so every every day every week you are talking to frazzled people on top of your frazzled world right and going home saying i'm doing the right thing i'm balling the plan i'm falling apart good scott's got my back guys got my back exactly yeah well done kate thanks very well done you're tough

you are tough so so there's a 26 year old out there that owes 25 30 40 000

and they're just not all in explain the

feeling just throughout your body explain this to folks what this feels like now now that you're free yeah it is just so fun to be like okay

i just got a paycheck and i have options like i of course i'm saving right baby step three but um it's like okay i don't need to put it towards my student loans i don't need to put it towards this thing that i owe like i have options and that freedom and that ability to say i get to choose what i get to do with this is

so worth it 100 times it was worth a really tough hard scratch and claw year absolutely yeah the price you paid was worth it exactly you ever go back in debt no oh my gosh no no that's scary it's like oh

no sorry i i love my options and kate you are tough and you man you went step by step but i don't want the people listening to this and you can't see it but man you are surrounded by people and we cannot do life by ourselves and you've got cheerleader after cheerleader after chile in this room and so everybody's here sharing in this this extraordinary achievement man it's awesome well done so well done so proud of you

all right it is kate from the education

solutions team where she calls chur or calls churches calls schools and administrators and teachers every day to get them to teach the high school curriculum foundations and personal finance because don't you wish you had learned this stuff when you were a kid it's almost our byline over there you know and uh highly successful and this is what you call an incredible 26 year old right here we got a building full of these they're incredible incredible they're incredible so proud of you so well done all right kate 26 000 paid off in 12 months

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free

[Applause]

yeah baby

yeah you know people don't understand

that have never led an organization

that during the pandemic those of us that were leading companies yeah we're looking out at a room full of her yeah going it's my job yeah as the

leader to keep the revenue coming in so she gets to live her dream yeah and i'm sitting here thinking all that stress we went through last year in leadership yeah to be able to keep this place afloat be able to keep things running all the criticism we took that's why we did it that's right for her because she keeps her job that's right and she gets to do

this i'm so proud of her that is so cool man and she didn't cave in she didn't quit she didn't say well i'll try again in 2021 yeah she didn't panic yeah she played

through act of faith walked out her faith kept making the calls what a cool 26 year old it's awesome very cool got a building full of them man i love it this is the ramsay show

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so

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dr john deloney ramsey personality is my

co-host today this is the ramsey show thank you for joining us open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five donna's in utica new york hi donna how are you hi dave i'm doing well how are you better than i deserve what's up

okay so i have a whole life insurance

policy um and i i would like to cash it in

i just found out that there's dividends

on the policy which i believe are tax-free um i have a loan out on the policy

and a cash value on the policy a small

cash value so my question is

should i take out the dividends first or if i cash it in will i get those dividends that i have on my policy you should get them if they haven't been used to buy paid up editions yeah they have not i didn't

even realize that they would have just have been added to your cash value what's that i'm sorry it would have just been added to your cash value and none of this is going to be taxable

so they're saying i got forty three hundred dollars in dividends and a cash value of fifty three hundred dollars but then they said i'm going to be capital

gains tax on 80s no no

okay i doubt it so here here's

here's how the calculation works okay the dividends are not taxable period okay how much is your loan

the loan is 15 000. i just okay so

these numbers are above the loan being paid back right yeah okay because you don't get the loan money i mean you get you gotta the money has the cash value has to pay off the loan first so right now as far as the cash

value whether it has a capital gains or not here's the basis all the money you've ever paid into this policy added together is your basis

so do you remember what your premium is forty dollars a month okay for how long have you been doing this uh 1992. so

500 bucks a year for 30 years

you don't have any capital gains

30 times 500 all right is more than

your cash value you would only have a

you would only have a capital gain is if all the premiums you have paid in over time um is equal to

more than your cash value

or less than your cash value and it never is because these things suck so bad they're horrible i know okay now let me tell you how a dividend works just for the fun of it

okay now how old are you

60. okay do you need life insurance

is someone count on your income to eat

no are you married yeah

okay do you all have a pile of money other than this well i mean i have and we have savings but i mean i probably only have about ten thousand dollars in savings so how does he eat if you die

well he's working and has a retirement okay all right so if you don't need life insurance then it's fine if you want to buy some life insurance you would buy it prior to canceling this that's thing one now a dividend is not taxable

because it is not a dividend

in the true sense of the word a dividend is when a company makes a profit like home depot and they pay their stockholders some of the profit out and that's a dividend okay life insurance dividends have nothing to do with that at all there are two kinds of companies in the life insurance world stock company and a participating company stock company never pays dividends the only ones that do are participating the stockholders of a participating company are the policyholders

so if you have a state farm policy or you have a i don't know what who's whose is yours with credential yeah prudential's participating okay and that means that the policy holders

are the owners now in order for them to

give you an owner profit back

they would have had to charge you extra

to create that profit does that make sense yes so there's no dividend if you're if i own the company and i want to and i want to buy something from myself and i charge myself a little extra so that i can give myself back some more money that's nice of you that's nice of me and then so that's why

the irs has deemed life insurance policies that have dividends to be non-taxable because the the actual ruling states it's the return

of a deliberate overcharge right

okay and that's why it's not taxable it's a it's a shell game it's a scam and so uh it's of no benefit at all so that that's just all that is is you paid too much for the policy all these years so now you got 4 000 of it coming back that's all that was right then on top of that you paid too much to build up a cash value

and you're going to get that back but you're not even getting back all that you paid in so you've got no taxes on that either so that that's the moral of the story on that and and these whole lot that's you know one more way that these holiday

or one more way that these uh whole life policies suck it's just unbelievable and by the way you paid extra to create the savings account in there call cash value and when you wanted your money out you had to go borrow your own money and pay them interest to do that so that loan you've been paying interest on was where you borrowed your own money in this whole time do

these companies take that money and then they go invest it somewhere else and keep the gap right oh yeah yeah yeah absolutely so they're like a long-term interest-free bank

virtually interested in making money on their stuff right that's why you know that's why in any skyline in america you know you drive around there are two tall buildings banks and life insurance companies right you built them people wow you built them in both cases you gave them your money and uh you know this is the great the great credit card scam the great you know car loan scam uh the great the great whole life life insurance scam and uh

some of the wealthiest companies in america are life insurance companies because they have all of the money like hers sitting on the books in the commercial real estate business if you want to go get a shopping mall for uh 26 million dollars and you want to bought you want to find a lender for that the primary lender is life insurance companies they do functioning as their own bank insiders

they do tons of commercial lending and they're lending her money and they make the spread and they make the spread that's right wow just follow the money baby

just follow the money and you'll see where it is you'll see what's been going on so oh man and i've never heard that

you get the blessing of them increasing your rate and then saying hey here you go here's some of it back look how look how benevolent yeah right yeah wow

so you know if as long as your cash value now if her cash value does include her more her loan amount so shh

i'm gonna rethink that she probably had about a fifteen thousand dollar basis and she said she had a fifteen thousand loans so she might actually have a cash flow a capital gain you'd have to see your tax professional to be sure and double check that but the way you calculate your basis is all the premiums you've ever paid in

is your basis and as long as your cash value is not higher than that number it almost never is then there is no

capital gain on it because you lost money you lost money right you didn't keep up with inflation putting 40 bucks under your bed for yeah 20 or 30 years you'd have been better off putting it in a fruit jar you'd end up with more money wow at the end of this story wow you wouldn't have the life insurance but if you put your money in a fruit jar

and buy an inexpensive term policy you'd end up with more money yeah if you put the money in a real investment like a mutual fund and buy an inexpensive term policy good roth ira you'd end up with millions of dollars more wow i mean that little 40 a month policy would have amounted to not you know we're talking about 8 000 15 000 here these kinds of numbers

it would have been hundreds of thousands of dollars wow difference instead they loaned money to a shopping

mall developer with her money that's how it works

oh well that's discouraging it

yeah is just you know live and learn don't buy a whole life that's right and if you got one get rid of it this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice dr john dolone ramsey personality and host of the explodingly popular dr john dolone

podcast i is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you get real talk on life relationships mental health issues the chaos of anxiety depression disconnection and all kinds of just good old grandma common sense stuff from dr john all the time on his show and when he's on here too so you can call in right now triple eight eight two five five two two five

if you can't get through today because the lines are always pretty full around here you can always email and participate on john's show by emailing ask john at ramseysolutions.com

or leave a voicemail at 844 844-693-3291

ryan starts off this hour in akron ohio hey ryan how are you i'm doing well how are you dave better than i deserve what's up in your world

awesome hey well i've always enjoyed

personal financing and learning about it and in college i've even helped friends you know make budgets and just basic stuff like that and i just got so excited about it i know i wanted to help people with their money and i graduated this past may may 2020 got a job at a bank because i thought you know that's a great place to help people with their money

and that's right around this time i started to listen to your show consistently and really do the baby steps for myself good for you how many you yeah yeah i've seen how many uh lives your plan has changed dramatically

and i feel like um the stories i hear on

your show are from people who

would walk into the bank and i would feel pressure you know for my boss and from corporate to sell credit cards and sell home equity lines of credit i feel like i'm in this position where i'm putting people uh in a position to you know

come to your show like you know what i mean like um i just feel like i'm pushing i you know my job is to push debt and more debt

and i'm just wondering where you know in the financial world can i go um where this isn't the

you know tool of

making money for companies is debt yeah

well i mean if you work in a pizza place you're gonna be selling pizza that's the way it works so i mean that's um and if you're health food nut that probably is not gonna be right not to be congruent right yeah so that that's kind of where you find yourself um a lot of people with your itch

uh gravitate towards uh

the uh the investment advisory side of the business like our smart investor pros where you work for a a local

organization that is a member of a broker dealer and you help people get investments going and most of those

people do not peddle debt most of them peddle investments and they some of them go extend beyond that into some basic financial planning like they'll hook you up to help you get a will or they'll hook you up in that world they do now our smart mr pros generally just do

investing but the ones that we endorse but uh you know some of them get into that some of them get into a little bit of but you'll have the opportunity let's say you had a a client that had an investment portfolio that was uh 60 years old but he had a 30

year old daughter who was struggling and brought her to you

and you could you know to help teach her about budgeting in the process so we did to do a lot of that kind of thing in the crossfire like that the only place in the banking world where you're able to uh

where you're not forced with a quota a boss breathing down your neck to sell debt like you have experienced is

small town local banks community banks aren't as aggressive in the debt marketing and uh and credit unions uh that's why i endorse both both of those and not the large mega banks because the mega banks are pretty well they're just pretty well debt peddlers is what they do they just if they figure if you're breathing you need a bunch of their debt and um i don't know which one you're working at

i didn't ask but the the larger ones are much more soulless in their approach and you know i've got friends in the community banking business obviously i don't believe in borrowing money i'll teach people borrow money but they're much more responsible with their interaction there's a moral component for them with their interaction with their customer versus these mega banks they'll just shovel as much down somebody's throat as

they can get in there and and you know you're going to lose your job if you don't sell a certain amount of credit cards car loans and home equity loans in your position and i'll tell you that right the the the

30 000 foot view of your question is you can't work very long in a job that violates a core value of yours whether that's treating people disrespectfully whether that's like dave said peddling food that you think is not healthy selling debt at some

point you will begin to fracture from the inside out yeah i mean let's just completely change the metaphor let's pretend that you uh that alcoholism killed your father

and you don't believe in drinking and drinking scares your death you'd make a horrible bartender yeah

you know and that's that's what john's talking about is and you don't need to quit today we're not suggesting you run in there with your hair on fire and make some political statement we're not trying to create an act make you into an activist okay but the uh uh but you long term what is good for you is to find something and that's why that's what that's

the itch you've got that's what you're scratching is long long-term you need to find something that is congruent with your belief system and your values you're not going to prosper otherwise you're never going to be a really great banker at that bank that's exactly right and you're never going to be able to sleep either yeah you know the ball isn't going to be happy the customers aren't going to be happy you're not going to be happy nobody's happy you're not selling enough debt

the customers are getting debt they're not happy you're selling debt you don't want to sell debt you're not happy nobody's happy here yeah you know and so you know you're just you head on your pillow dude and and so what i would do is i develop a you know like an 18-month runway or a 12-month runway that says all right i've got to start doing some of ken coleman's materials on hunting for a career thinking about a career i'm going to investigate for instance

the financial advisory world what's it take to get into that what have i got to do what licensing have i got to get what have i got to do to get hired in that world and begin to move in that direction but

um i i you know i i would not ask a

pizza place to not sell pizza right and i'm not going to ask a bank to not sell debt i am going to ask all of you to not buy it from them so that you're not harmed but i'm not going to expect an alligator to quit biting it's what alligators do and this is a common situation he says he just graduated and started this job that he wanted to help people right

you have a vision and this helps people with money and bank's got money so i'll go over there that's right man and but that happens to graduates all over the place right and then they get in and gets you behind the curtain see how the sausages made see what we're actually doing here and then they have a crisis of value yeah right crisis of conscience yeah it's very real

i appreciate you ryan you got a good you're a man of integrity and you weren't you weren't being a drama queen about it you weren't being crazy about it but you're just going this just feels weird and i don't think it's going to work and you're right it's not it's not going to work and they're not going to change right so how do you treat them with dignity

and then how do you hold your head up when you go find something else you know you're going to be you're going to suck at selling debt so they're going to be happy when you leave [Laughter] this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show dr john deloney ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at eight eight two five five

two two five peak real estate season is here if you are thinking about buying a home this year here's a piece of simple advice that could help save you uh from making a six figure mistake don't buy something you don't understand

are you financially are you sure you're financially ready for that mortgage are you confused about how the buying process works are you confused about the mortgage press pause and get educated before you buy start by checking out our new 13 step

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you'll learn about every step in the buying process from saving for the down payment to the closing day plus you'll get pro tips on how to make smart money decisions along the way to get this free 13-step home buying checklist text home checklist

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to 33789 or you can visit the

checklist and find out exactly what the what it takes to buy the home you're dreaming of text home checklist to three

three seven eight nine nick is in new

york city hi nick welcome to the dave oh to the ramsay show hey what's up

how you doing dave um i wanted to ask

you uh i'm 22 turning 23 this year and i

wanted to start saving for my retirement uh my company doesn't offer a 401k plan or anything else so i was interested in what your thoughts are on what kind of rra ira i should get into a traditional one or a roth one or something like that or if you have a better solution i would love to hear it well good for you man you're welcome way ahead of the curve to be working on this at your age excellent so are you out of debt uh yeah i mean

right now the only payment the only payments i make are on my phone watch and that's about 60 a month okay your phone what phone watch my

my cell phone and my smart watch oh i'm sure together they cost about 60 a month that's just the cellular service okay yeah and the uh and and how much money do you have in savings um well in my personal savings i have

like a few thousand dollars about three thousand dollars um but when i was in the eighth grade i got hit by a truck so when i was 18 i got some money from that and i invested it in stocks about three thousand dollars in single stocks uh yeah and

e-trade and stuff like that okay all right um all right well before we move into

investing i need you to have three to six months of household expenses are you on your own are you living with mom and dad uh no i still live with my parents okay all right your three thousand dollars probably is your emergency fund uh all right to start with nick let's just back up the first thing is i don't do single stocks i know a lot about them

i buy i buy investments i've got hundreds of millions of dollars of investments and uh but i don't buy single stocks because i don't like the risk associated with that and the game you're playing there's a lot of risk now if someone is really loving it and you obviously have a a knack for it and it's something you want to fool with no more than 10 of your net worth

so in your case about two thousand dollars worth is about all you ought to have in single stocks you're taking too much risk in my opinion okay so i would move that towards mutual funds and then as far as starting qets is not only single stocks but it is mainly single stocks yeah okay and uh then the next question is when are you planning to move out and what money do you need to do that

um i don't really have a plan on moving

out yet i'm still like i just started working

and i probably would want to move out between 26 and 28

years old possibly yeah

um i'm really not i'm not really sure on what do you mean with that yeah what do you make uh about 15

16 000 a year i'm working in a work study program right now yeah so i'm not making a lot of when will you complete the work study program uh a few years two years two and a half okay when you get your income up to where you can i don't want you 28 years old in your mother's basement dude get out and get going you do not need to start your roth iras yet

you need to you need to pile up money to make the transition out of your household and complete your studies and complete your career get your career going then you need to start and i would start with a roth ira in good growth stock mutual funds i love that you're asking the question but you're a little bit early in your process not in your age but in your process you're in

the middle of transit transitional things that need to happen before you start investing yeah i'm just trying to wrap my head around

that spirit and also that um

it seems it just seems out of balance you don't hear that very often that someone's thinking so strategically and so far ahead and also i'm living to my parents house

i'm about 30 28 you know what i mean so it's always the other way around i've got people like racing out of their parents house the moment they can and buying a way big too big a house or a truck and saying hey man you gotta have a future too so this kind of flipped around a little bit yeah yeah yeah get your own place nick get your own placements as soon as you're

you know you probably can't do that on 15k uh in new york city okay but when you get this work study thing going and you can get your income coming up in the next 12 to 18 24 months or whatever then let's move out get your fully funded emergency fund at that point of three to six months of expenses remain and stay debt-free through that whole process

and then you would start investing when you're stepping into your bed into your career and 15 of your income is what i would do there in good mutual funds with a good roth ira bill is with us in dayton ohio hi bill how are you i'm great dave how are you doing better than i deserve what's up oh awesome awesome yeah i have a question on an inheritance um i'm based on debt free

no house payment or anything debt-free um i do have emergency fund of about 25 30 000 dollars but i'm about to inherit about 440

000 dollars um yeah and it's in a uh

it's going to be in a um like a traditional i believe traditional ira okay an inherited ira okay yeah so i

don't know what the best i know i think i have to take that out you do have to begin taking over 10 years yeah you got you got 10 years on the new the new laws that just passed a year ago and so you're going to take out a 10th a year doesn't mean you have to take it out and spend it but you it's not going to be protected under

the ira and whatever you pull out is taxable each year no there's no penalties on it but you can take and you can't roll it into your own ira you can take it out pay the taxes and then you do whatever so 40 50 grand a year is going to be rolling out into your hand and you need to decide ahead of time after after i pay

the taxes on that what am i going to do with it and in the meantime it ought to be parked in you can you can move the investments around inside the inherited ira are is it already in good mutual funds or do you know i'm not 100 sure i have to look into that okay if i can't move it around if i want to move it around yeah

you can you know you can move the ira to a smart

vester pro sit down with them develop two different game plans one for the existing pile of money in mutual funds and two what am i gonna do with these mandatory rollouts these mandatory money this mandatory money have to pull out and you can turn around have another investment account and it just moves right over into that after taxes okay you don't have to take

it home you don't have to take it home by a truck you know it's not required but uh you may you may want to you may want to do some nice things with it you may you know there may be a few things you want to spend some of this on you may be some generosity things you want to do uh then all that's okay it's your money okay

so it is better to take it over the 10-year period to take a little out of the time because of it i'm assuming it's less of tax yes uh the the um

the because all that money that is tax

let's say you pulled ev every hundred thousand dollars you pull out you're gonna send 25 grand or so to the government that 25 grand is going to continue to make you money in there over the top using the government's what is effectively going to become the government's money it's going to make you money so i don't want to send it to them until i have to uh

the only downside is we may see some bumps in tax rates uh in the current political climate so we'll see hey thank you for calling this is the ramsey show

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dr john dolone ramsey personality is my co-host today phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five kim is with us in new

york city hi kim how are you hi dave thanks for taking my call sure i'm considering i'm considering selling my investment property to use as a down payment for a new home the issue is i bought it for 375k and it looks like i'm probably going to end up selling it for 345k so it'll be at a loss loss will i still get hit with capital gains no capital gains are based me

you didn't do a 1031 into it you didn't trade into it did you no i didn't no you you don't have a capital gain if you're not gaining so uh oh okay that's how you know so you're fine why is it losing money current situation in new york well yeah

so i bought it during that whole bubble so it was when you know rates were high for homes and now it just never again it never went back up to that price point again from 2008 or from covid yes

no from 2004 so for 15 years it never went back up to 375.

wow i am getting rid of that yeah it's

it's a it's definitely not a keeper yeah

that doesn't sound like it's been a fun experience i'm with you i'll take my loss take my lumps and move on yeah right

right right you can see a tax professional to be sure i'm not a tax pro i don't even do my own taxes but i've been doing real estate uh

thousands of real estate transactions through my life and so i do know capital gains law and you do not have a capital gain if there's not a gain it's a pretty simple thing um wait a minute

you know what you need to see your tax pro because who's been doing your taxes will give you your adjusted basis you've been depreciating it for 15 years and so you've been lowering your basis for 15 years your basis for tax

calculations could be less than 345 it is not what you paid for it it's what you paid for it minus the depreciation you've been taking on your taxes that's your adjusted basis and that

might be below 345 so you might have a gain but i don't have any way of knowing what that is you'd have to look at your last tax return or talk to your tax pro but if you've been systematically depreciating the thing for 15 years you may have a hundred thousand dollar gain you very well could so so walk me through that i know that if i have a tractor for my farm i'm going to depreciate that every year

because it's actually losing value yeah and when you sell it if you depreciate it on your taxes as a business transaction as a business tractor not a gentleman's tractor but yeah then then it's going down in value right and but how do you do that with a house i thought a house with with a it's not the loss in value

but it's the same concept you are allowed to write off one thirtieth of the house every year i did not know and so as a tax of the

uh not the lot but of the actual capital improvements so let's just make up a number let's say that uh she paid 375 the lot was worth 75 she's got 300 000 worth of capital improvements that can be written off over 30 years then that's 10 000 a year regardless if

that house could be worth a million dollars you can still write off well it doesn't matter what it's worth your body people can depreciate you can take 10 000 of loss against your income depreciation in that case if you divided 300 000 by 30 okay uh each year but then that lowers your basis

and so if let's say it was 10 000 and you did that for 15 years that's 150 000 you've lowered your basis now when you sell it everything above that lowered basis is a gain ah well played okay and so she's going to have a gain if she's been depreciating that house and she probably has yep most people that have rental property do take the depreciation because in a sense

you know if you got ten thousand dollars and you made ten thousand dollars in rental income on the house you had tax free income right so well shelter is sheltered real estate has a tax shelter to it that's what a tax shelter is that's what that's where the phrase comes from all right colleen is with us in augusta georgia hey colleen how are you hi dave how are

you thanks for taking my call sure how can we help i well i'm in a little bit of a bind or a pickle i recently came across your program through my church it was given to us and i started following your program about a month ago i am on baby step two

though i've already completed baby step three and i know you're gonna say you know what you're gonna say but my concern and worry is um i have my husband his income has been

kind of unstable so i'm a little nervous about depleting savings and throwing it to my last debt so i guess i just need some advice

okay um

well you're right you're not doing the baby steps you're doing your plan but the uh the thing how unstable is his

income i mean do you think he's going to lose his job um he's been having some some problems with some struggles and has had to go away at times to

seek some treatment and um

kind of left me holding the bag which is fine because i feel like we make enough income to is he still fighting

the addiction yes okay all right

and what do you make and what does he make uh i make about 80 000 a year

and he's around 50. okay

and how much debt do you have and how much is in savings i have a 18 000

car loan and a 24 000

personal loan with zero interest and the

car loan is about i don't know 1.79 and i've actually been able to spend and how much how much debt do you have i mean how much how much savings do you have 17 000

okay so there's not

really a a way to work it in our system like you're working it what we tell folks is one of two things

one is work the system and that would be pull the set pull 16 of 17 out throw it at this situation i would not do that in your situation the second way to address this is i have i'm in the middle of a storm and so we don't work the baby steps we just push pause and we pile up cash

okay how long has he been struggling with this and how long have you all been married we've been married about six years and he's been struggling for about two that i was

aware of i guess i i kind of what what's he addicted to uh mostly alcohol which relates to a lot

of ptsd wartime issues and things of that nature

he's hurting and he's hurting you

in the process y'all are hurting and so

you don't need to be working in intense baby steps program you need to be piling up cash and addressing this and you don't need an eighteen thousand dollar car debt so you probably ought to move down in car until you all get this situated because anything we can do to have more cash and less debt stabilizes your life while you fight through this and make these decisions i'm

so sorry but let me tell you what you let me tell you what you can't do you can't continue to sort of do life while he sort of fights this and i'm sort of going to work a plan because i sort of hope this is all sort of okay it's kind of all in or all out am i missing something john no that's 100 right and i love dave

you just said it right this isn't a time to be gazelle intense because somebody's hurt right and if you even if you pile up cash and you put it in your checking account and just even mentally you can tick off we're getting closer and closer in six months in a year you're able to just write that check and and pay your debt down and pay your debt off um

but he needs to go full in and get this

thing taken care of or to get on a pad you don't get taken care of in that way but you need to go full full adventure here to go get on a

new road to getting well and he needs you by a side in that in that process yeah you you you're you

don't you don't glide in the middle with ptsd

with addictions resulting from it there's no middle can i ask you can i ask you this question calling um okay actually let's do this can we hang on sure and roll over hang on here and we'll catch you after the break and um i want to ask you a question as we follow up here yeah we'll make sure we walk with you because your financial stuff is is ending up being

the symptom of all these other things and the fact you can't move forward is the symptom of all these other things so we got to help you with the whole picture and this this is a good man who's been wounded and we want to help him it's hard hard

stuff

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our scripture of the day hebrews 10 23 let us hold fast to the confession of our hope without wavering for he who promised

is faithful amelia barr says it is

always the simple that produces the marvelous there we go

we're talking with colleen in augusta georgia the young man that she married has uh

some ptsd and is resulting in some alcohol ism and not some is and

um uh so his income's unstable because

he's been apparently in and out of rehab a couple times and so she's trying to figure out how to work the steps during that we told her don't just shut down pile up cash and let's work on getting him well so that we are well so that we

can plan our future out and that's where we left it john does that sound right colleen yes that's right so let me ask you this um sometimes folks who are married they love somebody struggling with addiction that's such a helpless feeling it's such a unmoored unstable feeling that they start looking around their world and trying to grab hold of anything they can control and just start doing

it really hard is there a part of this situation where you feel powerless as he's going up and down struggling with this that this debt journey is a way that you

can grab control here or are you just looking at

your budget and you're terrified

we can't hear you you can't hear your call your phone went sideways oh i'm sorry i'm sorry um

i feel like it's a little bit of everything i feel like i

i it's just been a struggle because i feel like everything falls on my shoulders and not that he's never he's always brought income to the table

we just lost you colleen

yeah we just lost you there um

yeah dave as i was saying that that powerless feeling and it's always brings like she was saying always brings income to the table sometimes he does sometimes he doesn't the tendency is is just to say what can i do to make myself safe and then you jump into a program like this that only works if both of you are on the same page right and one of you really gets dedicated to a process and the other person's kind of in and out and not healthy not fully well and man that undermines the relationship

further accidentally right and suddenly you're you're going head-to-head on how we spend money going head-to-head on um are you making money and then it just separates you from the inside out i love the idea of stacking cash making sure on on the same page if you've got to do something help him when his debt-free journey

yeah i mean

yeah and i would other than that i would just pile up cash as high as i could pile cash to get rid of that eighteen thousand dollar car line right not because it's an expensive car but just it's a dadgum car line and i'd like for you to be free anything we can do to make less stress so you can pile up more money so you can address the real issue that's right and the real issue is to help him get some healing um and uh it sounds like he's a wounded

warrior yep psychologically those are hard man hard moments it's a tough it's a tough thing to go through and time we love him and thanks for his service and um and then you guys work and

um let's get everybody on the same page

with an ongoing coach an ongoing counselor a 12-step program and a rehab or whatever you need get it all lined up and pay for it let's do it let's get it done and plug it in with a va whatever you got to do to get the help and and uh and you get a clear eye you can't

accept this as an ongoing i don't

i don't want to project this for you that's why i put you on hold and held you was through this was i don't want to project this for you i don't want you projecting this instability in and out in and out in and out as the way of life for the next 10 years no or 20 years no that's not okay

that becomes co-dependent on your part and it will get with somebody with ptsd and i'll close them that will get increasingly unstable right that will continue to devolve into they're gonna say they're gonna heal or it's gonna get worse that's right and so um you gotta be working on the healing side of it to where you say okay we have a number of years two years three years whatever we're going to be clear of

this and we're going to look back in our rearview mirror and go well that was crappy and i'm glad we did it together and i'm glad we held on and now let's work take this pile of cash and let's work on through and let's get going and let's and i tell you you want to you want to accomplish a goal get a clear-eyed well-focused

veteran by your side man you're going to go fly through these baby steps right there's there's it's it's hard to stop oh you mean you mean him healed i thought man he's gonna be the greatest partner you ever had yeah because i mean you know once you've been through that stuff he's gonna be you know you've been under a live fire uh credit card that done but it's not it's not a big thing

you know that's right so i i want every veteran listening to this driving down the road by yourself if you're struggling please please not for anybody else but for yourself do what you got to do to go get well go see somebody go talk to somebody and then you're going to realize it is for yourself but it's also for your kids it's also for your wife it's also your husband go get help

but the healed version

has an unbelievable ability to focus

to do anything and a and a and a

a a rewired discipline yeah

that is there and it's a foundation that's what you mean you say a clear-eyed veteran you know they're they have a you know there's just built-in priorities yeah and um don't sweat the small stuff and it's all small stuff hey i'll never forget man i i can tell you who he is right now i was walking down i was working at a law school or walking down the hall and i said man all right

it was exam time and law school exams are hard and i said man are you stressed and he said well sir nobody shot at me today and i'm in the air conditioning so i'm doing all right and i remember going whoa

what a perspective there's an old sales old sales uh motivational story of the guy that won uh you know the number one sales guy for one of the big uh or one of the big franchises in in real estate and they brought him up on stage to give him the trophy number one in the whole nation said you know well you know how did you do this

and he goes well it's not hard you just talk to people about houses and they buy houses and he said what do you mean he goes well like i walked in burger king the other day and i was sitting there and looked over and there's a young couple looking at homes magazine i went over and said hey y'all looking at houses they said yeah and uh uh

they ended up selling them house they said well weren't you scared to walk up to strangers and he said i did two tours in vietnam i'm not scared of people in burger king i'll tell you what a clear-eyed clear-eyed veteran will help solve our community challenges will be the best husband you could ever have the best wife you could ever have um go get the help you need yeah go do

it yeah and she she's brave to be fighting

this beside him but don't don't go all in don't be under the illusion that you can sort of do this stuff you gotta go all in and you you can do enough over here while he is over here tearing it down that's right that's not that's never going to work that's not all in on healing first and then go do the baby steps and you are going to sail through new baby step

you have a new baby step yeah you got to do this before you start the baby steps i like it that's that's what it amounts to and um that's true in any situation where there is a crisis of some kind and you know what you guys are facing is a crisis and a lot of pain a lot of hurt and uh we'll be praying for you we love

you yeah and we appreciate his service we appreciate your her service man your your uh your bravery and you know staring this demon down yeah if you hold on uh kelly if you can that phone went sideways like she dropped it down the garbage disposal i don't know but if you're still there kelly will pick up and uh we'll try to get you on john's show later

and maybe he can walk you through some other stuff and uh you know walk you through the the whole process personal finance folks is 80 behavior

we all know what to do it's 20 of knowledge yep it's not a lack of knowledge it's a matter of being able to do it and since it's 80 behavior it's also 80 relationships i was gonna say dysfunctional toxic screwed up twisted messed up family extended family uh misbehavior

addictions uh laziness whatever it is going on

in people's lives um affects your finances more than your lack of knowledge about how to do the math get people in your life if you find out hey i can't stop eating this thing i can't stop drinking this thing i can't stop filling the blank get people in your life there you go good show john thank you ma'am nice job james childs and kelly daniel in the booth

i am dave ramsey your host we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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## 198. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 8, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Applause] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice anthony

o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today

author of the number one best-selling book debt-free degree and host of the ever-popular youtube and podcast show called the table which a new episode dropped today so what would y'all talk about i hadn't listened to today's yet i hadn't had a chance um what's what's who's on uh man uh our good friends dave uh mignon and big shakes uh oh wow yeah yeah yeah those two world-class entrepreneurs absolutely

and they came on and just really dove deep into how they started in in the entrepreneurship world how they got over some obstacles and has a barbecue operation both online and multiple restaurants and mignon has a cupcake operation tens of millions of dollars both of them doing revenue absolutely both world-class entrepreneurs and they both started from nothing nothing i mean young started with five dollars and a dream big shake started in new york with absolutely nothing

and now has three four shops uh multi-millionaires both of them and it was just a great show dave yeah it was a great show well they're great friends yes both of ours yes and um just

love them both and i met big shake through you you met mignon through me yeah yeah but uh they uh they're both just they they're just inspiring listen i mean people that want to start something and hustle and grind and turn over a rock and step on it man they get it done they they're getting it done and they're both kind of cool real cool i mean now big shakes

he he has that old man swag you know he he's just real cool yeah he's got yeah but he he's got more swagger mignon she's just she's just her she is he kind

of got he's got the strut down still she really is yeah i like it it's good man i can't wait to listen to it are you a lovely dad it's called the table yes with anthony o'neil and uh it's just dave it's is weekly podcast coming out and uh it's been on youtube for quite a while has quite a few youtube uh listeners and viewers rather

and so you can tune in and learn from two world-class entrepreneurs this week anthony he gets a little bit of everybody on there matthew mcconaughey was on there the other day and uh you had a table or a uh a panel for folks for uh black history month uh on there and so there's always something happening at the table there's always a conversation and be sure you jump in

and join it and check it out and next week dave we have some of our uh influencers we bought in you brought in we as a team we did we brought in some young influencers a couple of months ago and so i interviewed about half of them oh yeah and brought them in on the show so that's going to be a phenomenal phenomenon good i'm excited

lots of good conversations phone number here if you want to talk about your life and your money is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's

triple eight eight two five five two two five michelle is with us in harrisburg pennsylvania hi michelle how are you hello i have a question for you guys

and i wondered what you would think

my husband and i have signed papers through a real estate agent to buy a double a car apartment a house that has two apartments in it from his brother and

um in between the time of signing here and we have not made settlement yet uh but the

gutter has fallen on an electric line we were wondering whose duty that is to take care of it i want to say that i didn't understand whose duty to take care of what to take care of the gutter that has fallen on the electric line a gutter fell on the electric line well typically the seller would present a home that is operable to the buyer unless you unless you have specific language in the uh if it's a fixer-upper of some kind

uh the uh uh

you know you might have as is where is in the contract in case in that case you just bought whatever it is and you you got the gutter okay but most of the time when you're buying a b does it say as is where is in the contract i'm not

exactly sure okay it is a fixer-upper although we haven't made settlements so that doesn't matter yeah settlement would be based on you closing on the deal that you made if the deal you made on a fixer-upper is

we're going to fix all the repairs well a gutter hanging off ain't that big a deal to start with but um uh

i kind of have the feeling that you're getting cold feet

uh i haven't happened

where's your cold feet coming from michelle what was that where's the cold feet coming from the other half of it that you say it's half and half uh there's some family that thinks that we need to pay more and uh even though it's not worth that much who's the family are they the seller uh the father-in-law well it's none of his business unless it's his property is it his property no no okay okay well then it's that's

called nunya yeah none your business and it's also

very important michelle for you to you need to know what's in your contract i'm a little yeah uh disappointed that you don't know exactly what's inside the contract so the very first thing is you need to go back and read through or have an attorney read through everything so you know exactly what you're signing for uh where'd you get this contract this form uh the real estate agent

we are with oh there's an agent involved yes did you ask your agent about the gutter no okay that would be a good idea now is it is it your agent or is it the seller's agent michelle both oh it doesn't matter it

doesn't matter they can tell you what you've agreed to right you probably are using a standard form realtor contract that's a

what's called a boilerplate meaning it's a standard form uh and it may even have in it uh

as is where is if you're buying a fixer-upper they may have added that as far as repairs go so that they didn't so that the seller didn't get obligated uh to do this if i were selling that property i would have had that specific language in there so that whatever condition the property is in as of the closing date it's on you

if i'm supposed to present you with a retail deal meaning everything's and span and perfect then it would say that and you would have gotten a home inspector ahead of time if you did this properly and you would have known exactly what you were getting into but i think there's family drama here and a gutter is exposing that because let me tell you what it takes to fix a gutter 200 bucks so it's a non-issue

okay you don't not do a real estate deal or do a real estate deal over a gutter that's just not you know there's there's a lot of other crap going on here and um it may be that you don't need to

do the deal because of the family drama yeah and just look at brother and go you know what everybody's pissed off so let's just not do this you sell it to somebody else and y'all go get something else and but the gutter doesn't need to be the reason no and so yeah once you get to settlement you own the house it's over then so so folks here's the deal

everybody says don't do business with family don't hire family you know what that's wrong you can do business with family and you can hire family i got a family that works here what's the secret the secret is you have to be as clear or more clear in all of the dealings and expectations and paperwork than you would with someone that you never met before okay because it takes extra layers of communication to cut through family bs gotcha you have to be uber super crazy

blunt two before in the face clear yeah with family where with normal humans you could just look at them and say something and they could hear it but with family they get all caught up in assumptions they do right and so don't assume nothing write it down like it's a freaking business transaction because it is

and then you know exactly what you're getting into and you would never care about the father-in-law of the seller were you buying someone else's property

there you go that's how business works this is the dave ramsey show

what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five 825-5225 i'm dave ramsey your host

our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you save a lot always use the magic word ramsey as your promo code today's question comes from zach in iowa my wife and i had a baby in august and now that

we are debt free we want to start investing in her future since we don't know her future plans and given the talk around the financial changes in academia would it be better to invest in a standard mutual fund instead of a 529 well first zach i want to say congrats to your newborn uh that's an amazing amazing thing uh but for me i'm gonna say stick to a 529

because i would say more than likely your child is going to want to go to college and you all are going to push for further education and so i would stick to a 529 and just make some adjustments there uh once she graduates from high school if she decides not to go to college completely agree the landscape may shift yeah it will shift it will it's shifting already yeah

and it's going to shift in the next uh number of years but starting a 529

you know and when you get up to ten thousand dollars you might pause a second and look around say now do i want to keep going right if you get up to fifty thousand dollars you may wanna pause and look around yeah uh long before you get to a hundred thousand right but you don't have to you're not making a hundred thousand dollar decision today right you can just start one

and then as it gets bigger you keep looking around and going well this is different now and this is different and um what has happened is the argument

and you talk about this in a debt-free degree yeah in the best-selling book of yours the argument against the cost the extreme

exorbitant cost of a four-year degree

is even stronger and was accelerated by

covid because you can't even freaking go on campus right right and so it's basically you're getting an online degree and everybody's going well my sure is crowding paying there for an online degree right and i was questioning whether i was going to do it with the college experience right but now when there's no college experience and now it's all online i'm sure i could just go on google and get that you know and so people are uh that is forcing covet accelerated a

cultural shift in us observing what's happening with our education so higher ed's um they're they're in a mess yes they are then if the biden administration goes through on some of its promises and forgives student loans and yet has the hypocrisy

to not stop the student loans yes

see if you're going to forgive them because they're evil you shouldn't keep making them absolutely agree dave because they're evil yep you cannot in good car i mean it's intellectually dishonest to forgive student loans and continue to make them right that's straight up pandering straight up politicians handing out money yeah that's all that is that's not a philosophical admission that the student loan crisis

is a screw job on the american public yeah and if you're going to admit that then you need to stop making them which they're not going to do by the way they're not going to do that dave and i know we're totally against debt but at least maybe put a cap on it you know don't make it unlimited for these these people it's just out of control

so but that's what's driven the call up this is unlimited supply of stupid money yes there's always somebody who will take the money yep and so you know government money which by the way you don't even have to pay back if it's forgiven so i mean this whole thing is getting super absurd so the guy's quest zach's question is really good it's really because that pressure was all

there and then add covered to it yeah and you go we're not even on campus yeah i'm sure not paying 50 grand a year for this right and people are starting to wake up and go hey i want a return on investment i want to pay get something you know get something i'm real proud of for what i paid for so online learning or reasonable state schools or community colleges or some of

the stuff we've been suggesting to avoid student loan debt for years yeah are suddenly much more popular but

that's going to change what the offerings are at higher ed yeah it really will over time so the answer your question is zach if if you said i'm going to put in 200 000 in my kids college fund this morning i would say yeah i agree with you don't do that because the landscape's changing i might not do that all at once but if you're gonna start gradually you're not gonna screw up having 10 grand under 529 so let's get started

but then continue to monitor the shift in the education culture and what's expected so now dave let me ask you this question uh you have several mutual funds i have not several i have a couple mutual funds outside of my roth ira now let's say if he maxes out his 529 he's already investing in all this other type of stuff can would you suggest he opens up

another mutual fund if he just wants to save more to give more to his kids and he can just have that in his name though okay and then that could be used for anything yes yeah i mean you can just go i'm gonna buy a piece of real estate with it i'm not giving it to the kid i got you so you can just build wealth and that always gives

you options for doing anything you want to do got you a pile of money in your name i would not necessarily pile a bunch of money in the kid's name okay you can if you want to

save some taxes but you lose a lot of control uh yep because see that mutual fund if you put in the kid's name it's called a uniform um well i can't call it out yeah

my brain went blank but anyway

uniform transfer to miners act the booth helped me out thanks guys my brain's locked up but uniform transfer to miners act and all that means is if you open a bank account with your bank for your child to have put their milk money in or their birthday money in because little junior has a little savings account at the bank right that's under the uniform transfer to minors act okay

because it's you can't technically open an account unless you're 21 anywhere you can't because you can't do you can't do business you can't you're not an adult so the parent opens the account in the child's name typically and the parent is named the custodian right and so but then that mutual fund

if we do that is taxed at that kid's rate so as it

makes money it has lower taxes than if it was in money got you i

got you because i'm gonna get my butt taxed off right i know that right and so it saves you some but again it's it's their money right when they turn 21 if they're doing cocaine they can go get the money yeah and so you you lose a lot of control over it until they're 21. gotcha uh and and so i

you know for what little tax savings there is i would just open it in your name and just book on but this higher ed

discussion and we've had it with dr john delony who's got a phd in higher ed and he comes out of the the university world as served in

leadership in multiple different universities but we're all observing that this is a

uh when when the dust settles on this after covet on what colleges charge and how many people attend them physically it's going to have change it's going to have accelerated the change yes that the student loan crisis started yes and i don't know to what extent but we're gonna see something shift absolutely to where you know my my university university of tennessee at knoxville with 30 000 students or got a guy sitting out here with a michigan hat on the university of michigan or the university of uh whatever kentucky or auburn or

alabama or california or whatever it's gonna look different yeah and those are state schools yeah now if you if you fast forward you go over into a super expensive private school they're going to feel it even more because people are going to go look the student loan thing is so bad that the democrats forgave it so i'm not signing up right right because not many people are

so dishonest just to sign up knowing they're going to get it forgiven right like i'm going to go get all i can get so the government pays for it i'm going to get on welfare because i don't really want to work you know most people aren't that lacking in honor they're not uh so that it's going to affect it the the if they do this forgiveness even

if they don't stop making them it's still going to affect the perception in the culture it has changed it's changed permanently and um you guys check out anthony's book

debt free degree and check out the borrowed future podcast on the ramsey network because it lays out in detail how

crooked and how

i mean filthy yes the student loan industry is especially and the government intent behind it yes i mean it is a colossal

mess it is an epic failure

man and uh you need to check it out and so and if you want to go to school and you should go to school by the way education is important i'm not we're not a group that says you don't need to go to college it's not worth anything oh it's worth it it's better to be smart than dumb it really is so you should go but you need to be smart about your education it's obviously moronic to not be

so i you know in debt free degree i'll help you learn how to do that it's uh like i said it's a number one bestseller anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today you are listening to the ramsey chef

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey thank you for joining us america patrick is with us in grand junction colorado hey patrick how are you hey dave hey

anthony uh thank you so very much for taking my call our pleasure how can we help well my wife and i read the total money makeover uh just two weeks ago wow and

yeah i am 41 years old

and we paid off our debt on friday

uh just three days ago wow

well now dave i gotta tell you someone

gave me one of your books when i was like 22 years old i'm not even kidding you and from that time till this time i've been on the dave ramsey envelope system

i have been real serious about not being debt i bought my wife's wedding ring for cash i paid for the wedding in cash my wife and i have really been blessed

because of the book we read of yours i mean forever ago okay and so the total money makeover the other day was just a tune-up then yeah it was because i i haven't been listening to the podcast i haven't read any more of your books and my wife and i just looked at where we were and we're like you know what we need to get on track so we only had twelve thousand dollars in debt we had one automobile we paid it off um i bought

the total money makeover uh it was the last purchase i made with my credit card the book came in the mail and there you are on the cover cutting up credit cards so i felt like a dumb dumb for that it's a blast from me yeah

but here's where here's where we're at we're on baby step three and um but we have been investing

a lot of money because we haven't been on the plan up until a couple weeks ago so got it my question is do i pull

some of that out for my six months of

uh fully funded emergency fund or how much do you have non-retirement investing we have 435 000

yes take enough out today and call it your emergency fund and put it in a money market right now let me explain that to you because it doesn't make sense yeah because you're going to hear me cry in a minute i don't know but it's not that much money it's not that much money what's your emergency for what is your three to six months of emergencies how much should this fund be so we were thinking

six months should be 36 000 okay so move

30 grand that's enough yeah you'll be fine because you got 400 other than that laying over there right okay so it's not that much money now here's the point okay that 30 000 has a new mission now

its old mission was to grow

as an investment your emergency fund is

not an investment

if you can swallow that it'll make this easier yeah it's not an investment it's insurance

now if you think about insurance versus investments insurance costs you money to protect the things

that make you money your house going up right you don't want to burn so we buy an insurance policy to protect it so insurance is defense investments is

offense so we're moving 30 000 over into defense

to protect so we don't have to cash out some of that 400 at exactly the wrong time because let me tell you what will happen if you think i'm going to use the 400 if something happens right uh-huh that's what most people think yeah what happens is you'll go i still can't cash out the 400. even though i need 7 000 to do dot dot

emergency i just can't do it and you'll pop it onto a credit card yep yeah and so the emergency fund is

the completed proper step in a good finance in a good financial plan but anthony it's very important that we change it emotionally from offense to defense absolutely dave defense is very very important i love how you called it out that so you know what he's going to see that 400 000 over there he's i don't want to touch that i'm going to take out a loan i'm going to put on

the credit card and and then next thing you know he's right back into what took him about 20 years to pay off everything yeah and so defense sets you up for effective offense okay and so i love how bad broke that down but thirty thousand dollars out of four hundred thousand dollars it's really not it's not a lot of money yeah you just ask tampa bay yes

wow defense sets you up for an effective offense yeah that was a good one dave no question i was going for the young man but man you just hit us hard without i mean it's just i i i'm not a fan of either team it's i'm not i'm not a hater on either team it's just just an observation of the game yeah true you you know it just

it sets you up yeah to win and defense wins games and defenses and that's that's not only true in football it's true in finance and so because here's what can happen you can be smart smart smart smart smart smart smart yeah and then have a moment and this is not the case with patrick okay yeah but just as another example like i've seen people who build up

and they got 400 grand laying there right and they've been smart all those years because patrick's been very smart right and then suddenly something comes along that's shiny this looks like a cool investment that their friend wants to get them into and you could put 200 000 over here and all this in one stroke of the pen you get stupid

yeah yeah and i've seen people just suddenly boom they just lose it yeah and so that's the that's the you know you've been really good at offense but you didn't have a good defense to keep you from stepping into stupid tacks yeah and i've done it i've never done it on the stage by the time i went broke i did it yeah but i mean since then i've even done stupid things that cost me money

but i have been smart enough after i went broke to do them small enough to where they weren't game ending and there's one other thing too i would suggest dave and tell me from wrong care that other 360 000 that he's going to have there sitting there give that a give that a purpose why is it sitting there it needs to go ahead and do baby steps four five

and six yes so if you've got a home yeah mortgage pay off your i'm going to start moving towards that with that other with that other balance that's going to even be harder yeah and another discussion but we'll get through baby step three first right zachary is with us zachary's in lexington kentucky hi zachary how are you i'm doing well dave can you guys hear me we can how can

we help good deal one to get you guys opinion on whether my wife and i are financially healthy enough to try and start a business okay we are 23 and 25

our only debt is we just built

a house for 350 000. uh we currently owe

270 on it okay no student debt

no car debt and we got about 25

000 in liquid cash um built up

you guys are on fire yeah what's your household income we're trying to be um our household income last year was 170. what kind of business are you wanting to start and what's it going to cost one to start a business that is a solution for treating hot tubs household hot tubs and pools i developed the product based on my own personal sufferings and that and we've got it

we've got to develop prototype and the next step would be is this a chemical product or a robotic cleaner uh chemical product chemical product okay so you can do it all by yourself for to start off right you know me

me and i one of my friends is a he's a

stay-at-home dad currently he's also debt-free outside of a mortgage okay so it's kind of something that we'd be taking on together my biggest drawback is

i've got a very good job and yeah i've

got about a guaranteed i work in sales i do logistics for a living yeah so what what do you want to spend to start the business uh very minimal only a thousand dollars well why wouldn't you yeah and you don't need him and you don't need to leave your job you don't need him you don't need to leave the job just start it yeah yeah and start selling it and after

you sell a hundred thousand dollars worth then you can quit your job and he can work for you there you go but you don't need a partner the only ship on sale is a partnership

i got you i mean it's a it's a best

friend kind of deal though it won't be bringing other people up with you yeah well that's okay he can work for you and you can pay him out of the profits that'll bring him up that definitely yeah and zach hear me clearly man uh you're a young man and i get it we want to be entrepreneurs do not leave your job keep working it until this can take care of your actual salary

you have coming in or closed yes but don't don't quit bro don't start it out of your garage i talked to a young man that they started the thing in his garage seven years ago did 25 million this year good gracious yeah not bad start it out of your garage and when it gets up close to your current salary then you can quit and walk away and

you need to um and you need to have your friend work for you he doesn't need to be your partner he said no you don't need a partner you have the stuff you've got the money you got everything

here

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if you feel like you're going to always be stuck paying off your debt well you don't have to be you think you're never going to have any extra money to save i think you're always going to be like a rat in a wheel well you don't have to be it doesn't have to be this way it's time for a new way of thinking it's time to reset

time to take control of your money instead of it controlling you you can millions of people have and we show people how every day and it won't take as long as you think it will with ramsey plus we'll kick you off with 90 days of guided help so you can put more of

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eight nine brian is with us in greenville south carolina hey brian how can we help hi dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up so my question today

actually is advice on what to do with our tax return um we've got about 6 000 planning on coming in from that and we're on baby step two so we're choosing debt to pay off but at the same time we just bought a house at the beginning of this year and it it's an older house 1957

and the inspector said that the ac unit actually is on its blast life and that it would probably be going out soon and we've made it thus far in the winter but

it from the outside it looks it looks pretty bad and so i'm worried that it'll go out if we spend this tax return we'll end up having to come up with money to replace that hmm so uh let's see you're in greenville

south carolina and it is february yeah

it's about you don't need an ac yeah

not too bad well it's it's i know

i'm poking fun at you

right so if it goes out in july you go

to walmart and buy a 10 box fan okay

how much debt have you got left

um well not including the house it's

about 30 000. okay what's your household income sir uh only about 26 to 30. for you and your

wife combined income my wife is a stay-at-home mom that's kind of getting paid under the table to babysit okay and what it what are you and so you're working 40 hours yeah how old are you 26.

what do you do a forklift driver for a

local warehouse okay okay all right so what are you going to be doing when you're 30 that makes twice what you make now

that's a good question i've i had

surgery a couple years ago and it is really limiting my options as to what i can do so i'm still actually in the process of trying to figure out what i can do um so it affected you

physically but not mentally yeah okay so you're gonna do something that's called white collar okay yeah right using your brain

yeah any education brian

uh three years of i.t but no graduate

okay all right so why are you not working in i.t um because in college i took the same math class about three times and wasn't able to pass it with a high enough degree to continue in the core class in the degree classes yeah but what did you learn did you learn programming a little bit of programming and uh networking okay so even if you couldn't pass the uh

the math class can you work on a computer yeah yes sir i pays more than driving a forklift most likely yeah like definitely brian let me answer this question man i don't i'm listening to you and i don't

i don't hear motivation i don't hear aspiration

i don't hear like yo i really want to do more like what why

why are you living today like where where do you see yourself what do you want in the next 10 15 years

well to be honest all the things i wanted to do i can't i wanted to join the military i wanted to be in the police force or something like that that's more physical and so i didn't really have a back-up plan when i heard that i need to be off my feet and i t i was never excited about because that's um one of my biggest weaknesses is being a gamer

and so i didn't feel like it would be a good idea to be in front of a computer all day you know with the chances of getting into different gaming stuff or whatever plus i like to be more hands-on so i didn't want to really be in an office if i could help it got you so you're going to be in an office yeah because you're not going to be in

the military and you're going to get off this forklift yeah and you're going to be doing you're going to be a software engineer dude yeah i mean if you love gaming won't we take all those skills and that love and let's use it for something the reason we're going into this is it solves your air conditioner problem yes because you don't have an air conditioner problem you have an income problem yep right that's why

we went

there okay so we're gonna get the cattle prod and zap you off that forklift ready

you feel it so i want you i want you

by uh this time a seat

by the first of march i want you to have

talked to three people in the technical world about you doing some side help for them while you keep your day job yes

i want you to stick your toe in the water and reset your dream

you're too young to have your only dream destroyed and you do nothing the rest of your life you have too much potential there's too much for you to do in this world yeah god was not surprised that you got

hurt and he has a plan for you right mm-hmm and

and i don't think there's nothing there's no shame in driving a forklift but i don't think you're there because it's your passion to drive a forklift i think you're there because you're hiding yeah yeah and it was the easiest answer

yeah like it was operating equipment it was default it was whatever program came up when you turned it on yeah yeah and here's the thing brian dave told you something that's key and i do not want you to miss it and before you hang up i want you to stand online because kelly is going to give you one of our friends ken coleman's uh book the proximity principle

he told you to talk to three people in the tech world and work for them on the side what's key is there is that not only will you get income on the side but you're going to build relationships what if you could make 200 000 a year working for a company that creates games that's it and that starts with the relationships as a gamer

well i think that would be better than any plan you had absolutely probably even the other plan that was your glory plan yeah i mean cause you love gaming

and your brain works that way i know that because you gravitated towards tech yeah none of this was an accident yeah

so hey man i just i i want good things for you okay so what i'm gonna tell you is i'm gonna tell you to take that six thousand dollars and pay it on your debt and i want you to get an extra job in the tech world and pay off your debt even faster and while you're working that extra job if your air conditioner goes out this summer you can stop your debt snowball for a little bit work 100 hours a week and at the extra tech job and then buy

you an air conditioner yeah but right now i want you working to that snowball but dude this is not about your debt snowball i think we got a hold of it it's about your career track and hold on kelly's going to pick up we're going to give you a copy of ken coleman's book go to kencoleman.com his website download all of his stuff it's all free and

we gave you the only thing he charges for which is the book and he will walk you through how to get this going man yeah and uh but it's exactly what you need to do you need to start poking around the career of the tech world and get off that forklift uh because

that's not going to take you where you want to go it's not because it wasn't your goal i mean i got a friend that owns a forklift company if you want to own a forklift company you can do it yeah if you if that's what you want to do but i don't think that was your plan nah you can hear it all in his voice dave and that's one thing well time is up but you called him out i did you called him out i didn't call about that you just

for his own good though that was a bus i love bus yes sir all right you loved it yeah

oh that puts this hour of the ramsey

show in the box

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five as

we talk about your life then we talk about your money and we talk about your life and we talk about your money and it's all here starting off this hour is gonna be cedar falls iowa elise is with us hi

elise how are you good how are you all better than we deserve what's up um so i just want to say um thank you for everything that you and ao do especially i am loving that

black panel uh conversations on his youtube channel um my question today is not so much

financial but just personal um so

i'm just wanting to know like the boundaries and guidelines of when it's appropriate to talk to a friend about a big life decision um and the fine line of wanting to help them um but not may not be close enough um to

the person to have the right to say anything on the subject so my uh friend is in a relationship

with this a very um very nice man

um but she is a believer and he is not

and she is adamant that she doesn't want to marry any guy who is a non-believer

and during this process their relationship they he's been very close to becoming a believer but they have had discussions of potentially becoming engaged maybe in like the next month or two and my big concern is that

she's that she's just going to get lost and it's going to be really difficult for their marriage and he knows that she won't marry him

unless he's a believer and so i'm just worried that the pressure of engagement is going to make him decide a decision that

isn't actually what he decides and he's actually going to want to become a believer not because of the faith but or his relationship with christ but more so to be with the girl and i just don't know if i am the right person to have that conversation i'm close with her um and i've kind of been announcing the shoes were reversed yeah and she came to you could you hear her i think so um is she close enough to you

yeah to tell you some kind of a hard

have a hard conversation with you and you hear it yeah well then you're close enough to her yeah and here's the thing um say it

say it with love say it one time and move on yeah amen you know this is not your this is not your crusade right this is a concern yeah don't lose any

sleep over it uh pray about it talk to her if she she receives it great if she doesn't you did your part as a friend but do not allow this and her decision for her life to impact you and how you're moving forward and also on the flip side and i could be wrong here so correct me firmer on dave this could potentially hurt the relationship depending on how

she receives it and you have to be okay with that as well yeah yeah that's the risk yeah real friends will risk pissing somebody off absolutely otherwise you're not a real friend yeah right now we're not setting out to

make them mad we're not setting out to hurt them yeah but you're will you know you know that that's a risk so if i were in your shoes what i would do is i wouldn't make statements i would ask questions that's so good dave write down five questions

and it might say okay you told me

long before you met so and so that you did not want to marry someone who did not share your faith in christ is that still true

that's question okay

um are you going to in

now that he's in the picture it appears you guys are getting really serious and the reason i'm talking to you about this is is i'm worried for you

and i want you to have a good life because i love you you're my friend and so i if he does not share

your faith are you going to go forward and marry him anyway

that's the second question you might ask um third question is how do you think that's going to work out yeah yeah i mean

these are questions and a part of that and part of that third question is they even go deeper that question is if y'all do get married how is that going to work out for your family how are you going to teach your kids you know if y'all have two doctrines that you don't believe on you know

um and then ask her a soft one ask her when it doesn't really come off so hard like hey so how is the relationship going that may be something to start off with and the the only other one i would throw in is are you concerned this is passive aggressive but it's still a question are you concerned he might pretend

to convert to a person of faith in order

to put a ring on your finger

yeah and if she says yes to that i might then say how can you guard against that but you know what dave the answer to that question is time yes slow down and those young men

we are known for saying yes to something or doing something that we already know we really don't want to do just to get the hand in marriage you know and so that's a real good question dave yeah and just slow down yeah anything listen if she's just all bubbly and over the top and is not listening and shuts you down on a series of five six questions that sound like that then you've done your job right because you really cannot you know it is not illegal to be stupid

if it was i'd have been in jail a long time ago [Laughter]

yeah i mean you're going to watch part of being grown up is you're going to watch people that you love in your family and outside your family people that you love do things that are harmful to themselves and you really can't do squat about it

it's just hard yeah it's hard watching your friends drive their car right towards the wall it is it's hard watching your uh friends

hit the wall it is or family members you know and you go there's a wall i know but it's fun

yeah i think the part for me davis it's hard up front but after i've set my pieces not hard you got to walk then though you got to be a you cannot be it's not a crusade it's five questions yep keep and it's short and it's very clear

don't sugarcoat it yeah and don't turn it into a preaching session that's good you're not there to preach yeah you're there to ask questions and that she should be asking herself yeah and you're just clarifying and you're saying okay it sounds to me like you're going to go forward with this and i'll just tell you i'm going to pray for you because i'm really concerned yeah and

then you just walk away from the subject and you can stay in her life but she's not the translation those my grandmothers should say those convinced against their will are of the same opinions still yeah yeah and i would definitely on this show people call in and after the third time that they want to argue with the same advice that i've given for 30 years you hang up on them

i just i'll put them on hold and move on because i talk to somebody that actually wants the advice because otherwise i'm just arguing with a wall yeah i just you you know what wasn't my dad you'd argue with the fence post y'all ever heard that one argue with the fence post but you know what dave country thing i want to encourage her to listen to john delony

so he he did a video on how to have the hard conversation with the loved one lots of questions yes this is the dave ramsey show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions with

a question is scott from los angeles hey scott how are you i'm good thanks guys good how can we help um i just uh well

my wife and i uh been listening for a long time just paid everything off except for the the house way to go thank you and uh we've decided we'd like to leave california we're kind of tired of it hey man yep so we've we're heading out here you're the only one i wish that was true maybe two years ago would have been better but we're here uh on our way

and uh we're kind of surprised in a way because a couple years ago home values were a little bit lower and we've realized that things are more expensive and now it seems like it's going to be more of a lateral move as far as uh the mortgage is concerned um we will save money but not as much as i thought and so that's of concern i i thought

it would be a you know we'd have more money left over if that makes sense uh sure what part of california you're in uh we're down in los angeles okay and what part of l.a marina del rey okay and you're comparing that to williamson county here exactly okay in tennessee outside of nashville yep okay um well home prices have gone up here but they've not gone up uh they've not doubled or anything like that um

and they're still considerably lower than marina del rey uh per square foot and so

forth now you are it's four square feet yeah oh yeah you can get a bigger house for sure yeah but yeah it's easier so the homes that you're liking over here are gonna use up the money from over there okay and um

well it's uh it's not a move down in that regard then because you're going to move up in lifestyle better schools we don't have to worry about the homeless out with our children but i mean and you're talking about more square feet huge 14 yeah 1400 versus 4700 yeah it's

shocking yeah okay so that's uh yeah um how much of a how much of a home are you looking to buy the homes here that i'm looking at are anywhere between a million and i'd say one to one point five yeah let's say i thought it'd be i thought it'd be 770.

so yeah it's just a you know you're gonna get 4700 instead of 1400 you're gonna get a different uh environment that you're gonna live in we'll just call it that to be nice and uh so

i penciled the numbers out and it's going to save me a couple grand a year and that's not including state income tax including taxes not including everything i'll just you know just move over the the mortgage is about the same yeah i'd love to pay the mortgage off someday but it's going to take some time yeah well you i mean as long as you're doing it on a 15-year fixed or less

and uh you you know you're still young you've got plenty of time to knock that thing out you've still got a game plan to knock it out you know put it on a 15 plan knock it out in 7 to 10 which is what i would tell anybody anywhere then that doesn't really change in this situation but more than anything you're just this trip over you're just getting

you got a little sticker shock this time yeah i expected just to kind of take a look at the area understand where everything was and then there happened to be a house that kind of fell out and that it's hard to find these you probably can do what you're talking about doing it won't be down all the way to from a million and a half down to 700

but you probably could take a step back like where you were in the other trip but you're going to go out one more county right uh into a much more rural setting

and you're going to get a different vibe in that county you're going to be in rural tennessee rather than in suburbia tennessee uh if you do that but uh you know that's

you know again your step there's lots of wonderful counties around here this isn't the only one but this is just the most expensive one where you're standing yeah but um yeah i mean i i don't i

don't i wouldn't say you're making a bad financial move okay you know you're not you're not being irresponsible or something by doing this but it sounds like you're just experiencing a little bit more of the just sticker shock and seeing the houses are just so massive it does kind of shock you for a moment i'm in a 30-year fixed loan over there so switching over to a 15

if i tried it that would probably that would change things yeah i'd probably be stuck with a another 30 i would think and listen you probably could buy less than 4 700 if you look around too yeah that's that's possible i mean there's there's other things in the market in the 3000 range and that kind of thing footage wise still double your square footage sure but um

and you know again it may just it may just be one of the things i do when i'm looking at property in an area that i don't know um is i just enjoy the whole process

of gathering every stinking piece of information in other words i want to know every neighborhood yeah i want to know this one over here and anthony's had you know he had a lot tied up out in uh an area that's just out south of here he's going to build a house and he decided not to and you know and then he ended up in downtown nashville and uh in a re-gentrified area

and so forth and so uh i just enjoy the gathering of information and i think you might need to do a little bit more of that too that might give you some more options it may lead you right back to where you were but you might be more comfortable with the option that you're looking at today after you've used the others to swing you back over to

it if that makes sense does that make any sense yeah yeah it's it's it's um it's hard to go back though i don't think i can go back and i just finished paying off me and my wife 400k so we're way to go yeah we're uh well welcome to tennessee brother thank you ma'am good to have you thanks guys open phones this hour this is the ramsey show anthony o'neil is my co-host today ramsey personality

answering your questions julie is with us in washington d.c hey julie how are you i'm good how are

you dave good how can we help i'm calling today

with a question about um using an inheritance that i

received to either invest or pay off my mortgage and

i'm a long time listener of the show and i know that you always say that you know if i'm already investing 15 then i should go ahead and throw extra money on the mortgage and i guess two parts of this is

you know i still have about 430 000 on the mortgage but i think we're probably going to move in the next two to three years and so thinking about it you know the inheritance is 150 000 so i can't completely pay off the mortgage and i'm concerned that i would earn more you know investing that for two years and getting a good return rather than you know what

the house might appreciate in the two years before we move and so i was hoping you could better explain why you recommend the mortgage route in this situation the house is going to appreciate exactly the same amount whether it has debt on it or not sure so you putting 150 on it doesn't cause more appreciation uh the only savings you would have would be the interest rate on

the that amount of debt uh whatever your mortgage interest rate is and as compared to what you might make on a mutual fund that might be small uh to your point to your concern uh

i would put it on the mortgage anyway

and the reason is that i am going to have a paid off mortgage whether it's selling this property and moving the equity to another property but i'm gonna have a paid off home as a part of your financial plan as soon as i possibly can because all of

the data with all the millionaires that we work with uh from the millionaire study that hogan did says that there's two primary things that cause people to have their first million dollar net worth and first one to five million dollar net worth and that is their 401k retirement savings yes and you're not going to put it in that because it's payroll deduct and um and a paid off home mortgage

it is we did not find a

single millionaire out of 10 000 of them that we studied that said i became wealthy because i never paid off my home and i used all of that money to invest right right all of them either had their homes paid off or were heading towards having their homes paid off they never once said oh i i would never pay off my home because i always want to invest

and one key thing she she said there today was she thinks so yeah so still put it on the mortgage because things may change too if you don't if you do stay you can pay off the mortgage if you don't stay uh you know they're going to give you that money at the closing when you sell the house exactly in the form of equity and come back to

you so you don't lose the money what you are going to lose potentially in the short term is what you would have made in a mutual fund versus your mortgage interest rate which might be fifteen thousand bucks a year might be

two thousand bucks a year something like that um but i i'm going with the data and the data says paid off home one step to being millionaire and i'm always going to move that direction and so that keeps me right on those baby steps you can certainly do what you want to do that's what i would do this is the dave ramsey show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage aaron and whitley are with us whitney are with us hey guys how are you good good how are you welcome where do you guys live franklin furnace ohio oh fun welcome to nashville what brings you all the way here a debt-free scream i assume yes sir awesome how much of you guys paid off we paid off 30 thousand dollars in six months all right way to go and your range of income during that time uh started out about 54 and ended up about

80.

okay how come he wasn't first how come he went into it at first uh i i wasn't like she she was going to

church at the time and i was just led way far astray

she brought me back and you know

here we are okay all right so tell us the story whitney what do you what happened from your perspective um they just had a class at church and our pastor led it um and then i just kept pushing you know you need to listen to dave ramsey you need to listen and he was hesitant but then finally when it was his idea he was on board okay all right

so you just started listening to podcasts while you're out of town or what yeah we picked up a lot of overtime so i was driving to lexington kentucky it's probably about two hours yeah um and i mean you can't

do nothing while you're driving i just ended up finding you and then i started downloading the podcast and i mean i just it just ate it all up man boom just like

that so you guys decide to okay we're gonna do the financial piece university the dave ramsey stuff wide open we're gonna get on a budget we're gonna get out of debt what happened uh we put disney world on a credit card and that's really what set it off yeah oh wow

so how did that say this last trip huh

yeah i had this hair brain idea that you know if you don't you get these credit cards and you uh well we'll just put all our bills on this and we'll get you know the 50 points or whatever and

it doesn't work so don't do that [Laughter]

so whitney he comes home and says now it's my idea and you went finally yes yeah okay all right

so what was the hardest part of getting out of debt all the extra hours i guess but yeah i'm getting on the same page i

would say for me i'm the free spender

didn't want to give up anything but then once we got a budget we didn't really give up as much as i thought how did y'all do a budget with uh with aaron working so many hours

um uh my brother my oldest brother he is a super nerd so he's like he loves spreadsheets and stuff and i just asked him one day to help us with us and we downloaded it on our phones uh google sheets and we punched

everything in and that you know once a week or once every two weeks we'd have a budget meeting and at first it was hard but now it's it's like the most exciting day of the week for me oh bad that's so cool what was what would you say is the secret that you want to tell everyone to young people listening to you right now what should they be doing right now well here's one thing why should

they get out of debt um because like even right now i feel like we're kind of ahead of the game but we're really not i mean we're i'm 33 she's 31

and i just think back all the dumb stuff we did you know decades ago on how much money like we would have right now and it's just uh it's it's

it's fun being weird i'll just say that yeah how does it feel to be completely done amazing yeah free right yes yeah yeah

yeah since it so we started you know

back uh was january last year

so we was out of debt in july

and here we are february this year and we're on step five so wow i mean we we cash flow

we cash flowed a down payment for our new old house uh we you know just it's awesome wow way

to go you guys congratulations feels good huh what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh for me it's just patience

one of the verses that really helped me is romans 5 3 it says we glory and tribulations because tribulations uh bring forth patience which brings forth experience character and hope yep so i mean if you just stay that course you can get through anything so wait wait wait you see what just happened today i did it he just quoted scripture he just quoted scripture i heard that

and six months ago he wasn't in the church i heard that this is what i'm talking about there you go i'm more excited about this and you paying off your debt i ain't gonna lie that's good man and that's one of my favorite scriptures i love her okay then rejoice in your suffering i don't think so well suffering produces perseverance and perseverance character and character hope and hope is a gift of

the holy spirit yeah well done guy that's awesome man thank you very cool i love it good for you guys

so fun and the kiddos uh what are their names and ages bring them into the shot uh braden is 14 and amelia is four

so have they been tracking with you on this or you've been dragging them yeah we dragged uh braden we actually read through uh the smart money smart kids oh wow so

and it must be sinking in because he just his ipad that he had for like i don't know seven eight years crapped out and he bought his own new ipad

whoa where'd he go man yeah well done

i told him if he gets any scholarship too we have a five percent cash back so ah he's been hitting that pretty hard too nice very nice well you guys you've changed your family tree you not only changed the way you you had a little bit of debt you cleaned up but on top of that you changed your life your marriage your parenting everything i'm so proud of

you well done guys very very well done excellent job good stuff all right aaron and whitney braden and amelia lexington ky area thirty thousand dollars paid off in six months making 54 to 80 lots of

hard work in ot count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three

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that's how it's done right there man that is fun oh you know these stories almost always

contain the part where for a married couple anyway yeah where the other one had to get on board yep and when that happens it's like ding ding here we go and they clicked game on and it clicked game on here sounds like it even helped their marriage dave yeah absolutely no question about it

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five sam is with us in hawaii hi sam how

are you hi mr ramsey good to talk to you you too i'm short on time give me a question right quick okay so um we just got a newborn baby

and uh uh the the girlfriend is at home with the kids so we got a single income uh i'm a full-time uber driver and i've accumulated some traffic tickets um that i think might be affecting my background check and uh i'm thinking if the background check doesn't go through i'll be out of a job in the meantime i also just found out i have eight thousand dollars in taxes

after all this coming year in april what do you make in revenue what would be about 4 000 a month and what is the uh tax what are the uh the traffic tickets cost

the traffic tickets are about 1200.

we'll take them out first yep and then you got to get on this you got to get on those taxes and you got to get on it hard you're probably gonna you're gonna need to file your income tax return on time even if you don't pay

and then you you contact the irs about what's called an installment plan and put that on payments until you can clear it and dude you want to clear it as fast as possible because the penalties and the uh

interest are ridiculous dealing with the irs plus they have almost unlimited power so you're not probably not going to quite clear it all by april 15th but you get the tickets cleared first and then get after the irs fast but by mid-summer it all needs to be gone and oh you got to start setting back your quarterly estimates so you don't know taxes next year

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today if you're wondering if you should be buying or selling a home or if you should put it on hold well this is a big financial decision and big financial decisions should happen on your timeline well dave i'm panicking because of the pandemic dave i'm panicking because of interest rates and dave listen every time you're panicking if you start your sentence with i'm panicking or i'm afraid everything after the sentence is something you shouldn't do

don't do stuff because you're afraid that's never i mean unless it's get out of the way of a car or dodge a snake but other than that you don't need to make decisions when you're afraid they're always bad decisions fear does not induce clarity

quite the opposite so don't wait around for the stars to align to buy a home or sell a home truth is you can win in any market in any season if you put the right people on your team if you want to find a top real estate agent in your area like one of our endorsed local providers our elps they use years of experience and success and change in changing markets to serve you they know what things look like they know what's happening out there and that's the only agent in your area i

trust if you want to make a move that's right for your family text house 233 789

33789 text the word house and you'll get somebody in your corner to help you and you'll make much better decisions

not time to make decisions when you're scared right right absolutely dave anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today claire is in idaho falls idaho hi claire how are you

hi dave good how are you better than i deserve what's up hi um me and my husband we're graduating college we've made it out debt free yay um

yeah so he's doing software engineering

so we're going to move just wherever he gets a job because he's going to make more than i do um i've been working putting him through school just working at the courthouse and there i have about two thousand dollars that i've put away in the retirement fund um through my work i'm not going to continue working there so i'm wondering if i should you know pull the 2000 for my retirement

and then what i should do with it ah no you should never pull from your retirement i don't care if it's only a thousand dollars uh what i want you to do is transfer that over claire to a traditional ira uh get on the phone with a smart investor pro or you could possibly do that yourself with two thousand dollars but i would suggest a smart investor pro

and just let it sit there and start investing into the ira moving forward until you both land a job and then go back into uh your matches then you're roth then traditionals those are the three main things i teach and we actually teach when it comes to investing but do not pull it out don't spend it go ahead and transfer it into your retirement age direct transfer rollover into an ira is what he's talking about with a smart investor pro

and they can help you pick a mutual fund to do that it's not the end of the world if you cash out a two thousand dollar account it's just kind of silly to give the government half your money right and that's what you're gonna do so i wouldn't do it uh we don't cash out retirement accounts as unless it's to avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure you're certainly you know not going to have either one of those in

this situation tracy's in lexington kentucky hi tracy welcome to the ramsey show how can we help hi dave i have a quick question i think it's pretty cut and garage to whether or not to hit i'm 53 years old my husband's a retired school teacher i still i started late i spent time with the kids so i'm seven to nine years before i can get before multiple full teacher pensions my question is

we have 14 years left on our home mortgage at a rate of two points our interest rate is 2.75 do we continue to get outside of our pension now we'll both have a pension we have 401k and raw what should i be hitting the hardest with the market returns it looks like the 401k returns much better than 2.75 which is on our home mortgage are you free except your

home no we have 17 000 on one vehicle

before we even have this discussion that has to go okay so your number one thing is clearing that up do you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses yes how much uh

right at twenty thousand oh good pay your car off today yeah oh okay yeah that's all yeah

then then your next number one wait

you're then your number one goal and i want you to do a written detailed budget with your husband your number one goal is to build your emergency fund back up yeah we'll show his annual income

um right out right at 100. good so this

is gonna you're gonna do this very quickly very quickly very quickly if you're not willing to pay the car off today you should sell it yeah okay because you've already

you're already owned the car the only question is are you going to own the debt so we're going to clear the debt now you don't have a car payment anymore we're going to build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses that's going to take you about four months is all and then we're gonna start baby step four which is 15 of your income going into retirement and everything else we can find we're going to throw at that house yeah okay okay and i i think i'm at

nine eight eight percent into my retirement already i forgot to mention that that's already you need to yeah you may want to stop that temporarily until you get that emergency fund rebuilt and then start it again at 15 and that's household incomes your husband worked

um he is currently starting a second of business he's a with a retired teacher and he's currently starting but that's not income anything expense nor income at the moment okay if it starts creating an income 15 of your household income goes into retirement that's what we call baby step four that's when you're debt free with an emergency fund that's the first three steps then four is 15 of your income going into retirement everything above 15

and by the way without this big stinking car payment and by living on a budget you're going to have money above the 15 to go ahead and clear that mortgage off because in seven years i want this house gone our house debt gone and when you move into retirement you're gonna have a healthy 401k a healthy pension he's going to have a business going and you're going to have a paid for house that's where

you want to be at retirement yep right yeah that's my goal

i come i have a money fear i'm one of those people whose parents didn't do they did everything i shouldn't do so i have almost irrational fear of not having money when i'm older well the step that we gave you

gives you both wealth and stability yes

wealth is in the 401k stabilities in the paid for house right and the the process i just gave you is the shortest distance between where you are and there okay

15 into retirement after the truck's paid pay off the truck for sale after the emergency fund's in place

after emergency fund's back in place okay then 15 into retirement and everything else we can squeeze out of the budget we chunk on the house how much do you owe on your home uh

184

yeah it's going to be it's probably going to be seven to nine years before you're done yeah you may not have it done in seven years but you're going to be close depending on if your husband starts adding some income to the equation or not yeah and he starts adding income to the equation you start throwing it at that and don't allow your fear tracy to prevent

you from getting to your your purpose as far as not your purpose but your future pay off the car today all right pay it off today and you'll get closer and closer and closer to your dream i think you can do it within seven to eight years um but the numbers do show seven and nine but i think if you and your husband really sit down get on a clear budget

i think you can be there within seven years twenty five thousand dollars

is eight years out of a hundred

sure you can do it faster than that probably you probably can do it in because the income should go up with the business yeah yeah i i do i think you're gonna be done in seven years if you stay concentrating on it right i mean you don't have to live on beans and rice to do it but i think you're just going to pay attention yeah just be very intentional with your money hang on i'm going to send

you a copy of the book the total money makeover which outlines those baby steps that we were using in detail it's like the baby steps on steroids that's what the book is and it's the best selling book we've ever done because of that because it gives everybody a clear path of exactly what to do here what to do there what to do there and what to do

there that's simple and so um very very cool good stuff

we appreciate you calling in all right

anthony that about puts another hour down well done know the hour it's been fun dave i like rock and roll james childs is our producer kelly daniel is our associate producer i'm dave ramsey your host this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple

eight eight two five five two two dion is in

bakersfield california starting this hour off hi dion how are you how you doing dave finally got the

chance to talk to you and i'm sorry i'm trying to this is my first time talking i don't know how to do all this but i'm trying i've been reaching out trying to reach out to your company for years now this is my first time well i'm glad you got through how can we help you today um i just purchased my first home

and two years ago i'm trying to figure out a way as a blind person how to pay off my mortgage faster than 30 years okay okay dion

did you say a blind person

excuse me i'm sorry did you say a blind person yes sir okay so what do you do for a living i receive social security okay all right

and how expensive a home did you buy in bakersfield california uh it's actually right next door to in lancaster but it's uh we paid 240 000.

you said we are you married via yes sir okay what does she do for a living she's a um

caregiver she takes care of her elderly okay so what's your household income then uh i received social security 900 a month she receives about

2 600 a month okay

after we moved into our house she was taking care of one of the people she was taken care of and um

their spouse passed away and we took them in and we've been doing it so we take care of elderly in our home as well and what does that pay

we receive about we have two patients

right now we receive about twenty two hundred dollars straight across money oh okay okay so that's about fifty five hundred a month yeah that makes that makes that makes us a little bit i didn't think you were paying a mortgage on a two hundred something thousand dollar house with thirty six hundred bucks so this is helpful good okay good so you did that because you had this mortgage and you had to do something right yes sir good well no well actually my dad was living with us before he passed away too so that was another reason why we were able to get the house and my wife was receiving i had more patience at the time before the coronavirus gotcha so what's your question for today then i'm trying to find out how to pay off my home faster i've been hearing stuff i've compared all faster than 30 years i've been following you since i've been since i was 16.

go there uh dion do you have any other consumer debt excluding your mortgage no we don't have any credit card debt we pay all credit cards in full every month we own both of our cars

so no we don't have any debt at all so you do have debt you just paid off every month oh well i i follow stupid people and

tell me about credit cards because he said he has credit cards and he pays it off every month oh okay but you don't have a balance on them so yeah yeah so you're going to get debit cards to replace those but then as far as paying off the house early you just we're going to put you on a budget make sure you have your emergency fund in place

and start saving 15 of your income towards retirement past that every dollar you can find up to baby step six is gonna go towards the house unless i miss something that's where he is yeah no he didn't miss nothing at all dave i mean i definitely want to say uh get rid of the credit cards though i mean because that's going to put you back into debt um eventually

i i'm just going to say that so first time there's a hiccup you're going to end up and you're going to look over on those things there's going to be a balance he's right about that but um i think the big thing here is is you guys have done a great job of scrap being scrappy you're hustling you're grinding you're adding you know adding people into your home that you're taking care of she's working

you know you guys are doing everything you can do to make sure that you make the payments on this house and you've always figured out a way you know and so that's good news right and i would just use that scrappiness and not use it as a way to uh save your bacon every time but instead be a way that you uh that you're actually prospering and that comes from working

the baby steps and doing that with a budget and you know baby step one is debt free except the home you've done that two is an emergency fund of three to six months or two is debt snowball three is emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and you move straight up through that process yeah james is with us in seattle hi james welcome to the dave ramsey show hi dave anthony thank

you guys for taking my call sure what's up um so my wife and i are considering

quitting our jobs and going back to school she wants to do a career change and i kind of want to accelerate my master's program it's in a it's a four-year program it's a part-time program and i kind of want to get it done in two years uh so we were uh considering uh quitting

our jobs um we make combined 220

and uh the only debt that we have left is our house which we owe about 130 on

um so you want to get your max version what my master's it's my mba it's in it's an

executive mba yeah um i'm a corporate

controller a financial controller right now and i would like what now i make 130 and she

makes 90. and you'd like to be a cfo yeah i'd like

to be a cfo my goal is by 35. and you think you have to have an mba to be a cfo um you know i've been looking a lot and they usually require like a cpa which i have and an mba i think that

would help with um you know i don't have a ton of

years of experience um my cfo this is a 300 million dollar

company my cfo does not have an mba

oh gotcha yeah just as a history

yeah just a heads up yeah i'm okay if you go get it no quitting your job to go get it quitting is a bit extreme yeah jobs not just job jobs because both y'all want to quit what is what's her degree field what's she wanting to go do um she wanted to do um she wanted to get

she wanted to be a lawyer and then she decided that she didn't want to do that she's got her four-year degree and she's a paralegal she actually wants to switch to health care management

okay and she has a four-year degree in what uh pre-law okay and what does she do now

she's a paralegal now she's a paralegal okay and she wants to move into the health care field and so she wants to get a master's in that management she wants to get a master's degree she either wants to uh she wants to get like a four-year degree in her uh health care management how old are you guys for her master's in healthcare i'm 31 she's 29.

okay okay well i i have

a we have we share

a view of education that

um with a few rare exceptions the

primary use of education is to increase income yeah and to move into a career field that you love okay and so um it is not something that you

just collect like thermo degrees on a thermometer and it is not something that you

have to have it is is what is necessary

for you to go win and um

in your case i would do the mba as an executive level and keep your position uh would definitely not quit in her case

i would probably do the same thing i'd probably pick up some night classes and begin to move towards health care as a career move rather than just quit your jobs you're making a great income i think you can make a more gentle transition than this and i think you should [Music]

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financial life christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance but it is a budget-friendly option and the original health cost sharing ministry for christians get started today and check us out at chministries.org backslash budget

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anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today if you're trying to find the perfect valentine's gift consider this your suggestion

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and marriage live stream is this coming friday february the 12th for those of you that

are already ramsey plus members it is free to you so you don't want to miss out on that check it all out i am dave ramsey your host this is the ramsey show anthony o'neil my co-host joins me today ramsey personality matthew is with us in cleveland ohio hi matthew how are you

hey guys how you doing thanks for taking my phone call sure

quick question um i just got done reading the total money makeover i'm in the middle of a debt free degree right now both great books really love them thank you um my wife and i are in the process

of um planning out our budget and

looking through our debt and seeing what we owe we've already got enough money in the bank for baby step one so i guess we'd currently be on baby step two good so in in the total money makeover

um i believe you said to

divest from your retirement investments um temporarily no just stop actually not

don't take the money out yeah i'm sorry i'm yeah i apologize that's right i'm sorry that's okay um to stop adding uh so

like between my wife and i that's probably almost 500 a month which um but my my question is

in regards to uh my son's 529 so i've got

a 15 year old son who's actually the youngest of three i've got two that are in college right now one pace board herself um and the other one we're helping with the oldest one's got kids and she's single so she's basically getting college for free um through grants and scholarships

um so sh we i actively contribute like a hundred dollars a month towards this 529 and he's already in high school and there's not terribly much money in there about 5500 bucks in there but

my question is do we also do the same with that stop actively contributing in that what's your household income

gross is about 150. okay 100 bucks a month 100 bucks a month is 1200 a year

for three years before he goes to college is 3 600 yeah right this does not solve your college problem it doesn't

right so that's

my i was asking what i was actually thinking of doing was leaving it in and i know i you're gonna i know bad idea with uh student loans but what we were looking at dealing with leaving it in and letting it grow for the other four years and then taking what we have after the additional four years after the seven total years and putting that down off of whatever we can't afford yeah instead what i would tell you to do is let's work the baby steps

and um if you're reading debt-free degree you know he doesn't he you don't have to have all the money saved for him to go to college he just has to choose properly yeah so we're going to work for baby steps you're going to be how much debt do you have not counting your home

um numbers-wise i haven't finished

adding it up it's over hunter um my wife and i both

have student loans and then we co-signed for um not cosign but we have parent loans for my other son actually my student my student loans are actually going to be paid off in may of this year because i'm a government worker so i'll have made my 120 on time payments and i did talk to yeah matthew who's the first thing um

the first thing you need to know exactly what are you up against you need to know your numbers okay before you can really fix this situation you need to know exactly to the t how much debt that you're in so this means you need it on the budget okay so that's the very first thing we've got we've got leases on cars which

we're working on trying to get out of good um so that's part of it um we lease our cell phones which we're gonna we're gonna throw into the snowball and get rid of uh very soon good the only other mortgage we the only only other debt we have after that is our student loans yeah um cars are student loans okay yeah yeah so you've got it

the point being making what you make i

think it sounds like you are going to be debt free except your home by the time your 15 year old gets to school you'll have your emergency fund in place and um i would love for you to put 15 of your income away beginning with baby step 4 towards retirement and then cash flow is college beyond that if you put retirement on hold for a couple of years to cash flow his college oh by

the way he's going to do all the other things in debt-free degree in order to go to college yeah but you should map out a thing to where you are debt-free before he gets to school baby step two and have your emergency fund in place and then with 150 000 income and using the debt free degree plan you ought to be able to cash flow his college no student loans

and i would have stopped your retirement during that time until you get there and i would have stopped his 529 until you get there um and you're probably never going to restart it because by the time you get there you're probably going to be writing checks for college yeah and matthew have a conversation with your son now let him know like hey your college experience will be based upon your grades your scholarships based upon

you so if you really want to go to this particular school inside of ohio you're going to have to step up to the plate now is a great time to have that conversation with them and make sure that he's reading the book with you because we walk you through the step-by-step process what are the classes how does he prep for the act in the sat make sure that he's playing a huge part of that

and you're not just carrying all the weight okay because if he gets good scores on those and takes the classes and takes them again and super scores them that's going to qualify him for yet more scholarships he's going to be working while he's in school and he's going to choose a school the two of you together are going to choose a school that you can afford in ohio yeah it's going to be an in-state state school yes uh he's not going to a 100 000 year school no

you don't have that money he's also not driving a bentley no because and there's no shame in either one of those and he might even go to community college for the first year or two to get some of his basics out of the way before he transfers to a four-year so any of those plans and all of those plans get this kid through school debt-free uh and you're going to be able to help a lot just out of your monthly budget yes

because you're not going to have any payments except your house payment by the time you get there but you're going to take the radical steps to do that i sure hope that your theory on the student loan forgiveness works out it has not worked out for hardly anyone virtually no one has gotten that approved uh and so there's uh i saw the staff the other day it's up to

i think it's up to 30 000 people have now gotten their forgiveness but it's 400 000 have applied and didn't did yep and so um you know and of course

current political arguments are there's going to be some forgiveness in addition to that i will see but uh um [Music] you know i i you've got to lay out a

game plan to where you clear this debt these car leases these student loans these parent loans 100 get your emergency fund in place only then do you restart your 401k and you lay out a detailed game plan to cash flow college using the debt free degree so book and process to do that yes and i

think it's all possible absolutely but basically uh seven years from today yeah three years more of high school four more years of that you know you're gonna be you're the last one off the payroll yeah and um that's that's what we called it when our kids left they got them off the payroll now they're on this payroll i like that picture though yeah that's it they're off the payroll you can do it it's just gonna have to be very detailed and very intentional and uh no wavering and no waffling

like those cars don't need to be still sitting in the driveway the freaking payment on them this is the dave ramsey show

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foreign

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matt and sarah are with us in minneapolis it says on my screen you guys are debt free congratulations [Music] well done how much have you paid off

um 141 000. cool how long did this take

uh it took me 17 months okay and your

range of income during that time uh we started at about 235 thousand

and we ended at two hundred and eighty thousand wow what do you do for a living

um i am in software sales i'm in

physical therapy okay wow cool

so i'm guessing some of this 141 must have been student loan debts well you guessed right

how much was it so the student debt was

about 130 000 um and then the remainder is about

seven thousand for auto and then the rest was just impressive i'm having trouble hearing you you're gonna have to get where you could talk directly into your phone okay how much was the student loan debt

against 130 for the student loans okay

good oh my gosh so 11 wasn't about 4 000

for credit card okay so tell us the story what happened 17 months ago that got you guys started on all this uh i mean we really just got sick and tired of being sick and tired i mean we had two we have two little kids and we really just wanted to you know be able to you know have the future for them that you know we wanted for our family and it was just getting kind of ridiculous because we you know had an awesome income but we

felt like we were broke and we

you know kind of finally just came across some of your books um and actually we started listening to our podcast and we really started getting gazelle

intense after we listened to our first debt free stream um that we kind of hit home with us and really inspired us and got us motivated and we just got

gazelle intense since then wow very cool

good for you guys so you did it a hundred and forty one thousand in 17 months that's like seven eight thousand bucks a month yeah you're chunking on this man i mean this is big time uh so what do you tell people the key the the thing they have to know if they're gonna get out of debt what are the keys the well the key the first key for us was 100

the every dollar budget um well like i said maybe take a step back but why so we really thought about why we want to do this and that was so important because so many times during this we would um fall off even for like a week and then we would get back to why we were doing it and that would get us back and motivated and then

we use that gazelle intensity when we did have that focus and then the budget just to keep us on track because yeah we were definitely spending more than uh than we were meant to be spending at that moment yeah so what's your big why

well definitely just being able to

be outrageously generous i mean it kind of started like i said heading home when we just heard all the people on your show saying like we want to live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else and

you know we want to be able to do that and we felt like we were you know we should be able to do that but if we never get rid of this debt that we're never going to be in a winning situation um and so that was really kind of our big why yeah so what was the hardest thing throughout this journey throughout these last 17 months

the hardest thing oh well

i think i mean we just there were so

many you know bonus and commission checks that came in and i remember just kind of crying like each time one came in because i knew that we didn't get to do anything with it like i couldn't buy a new car we couldn't

um you know kind of do all the things that we saw other people doing right and we knew that it just had to go to our debt um so i think that was definitely the hardest thing is just you know stop comparing to other people and just kind of run your race um but we stuck with it

so good very very good very cool

well done so now that you're out how's it feel amazing i really still can't believe it

i mean it's we've and again we've heard this on your show so many times but we've started making such different decisions because

of you know our ability now to not

you know have like five six seven thousand dollars going towards debt every month um so it's really it's really i would like to say change our family tree yeah so most of the student loan debt was from my as if you from them it was like it felt like there was a constant chain um just holding me back all the time with this and it finally just felt like i was free um and and not having that burden

on my shoulders at all times and it's just been so um relieving and we feel like we can

make decisions that we never would have even thought about before so for example we we just decided uh this month that we're going to start our own business and that is was completely um not even

imaginable three years ago yeah yeah wow

very cool this is exciting so proud of

you guys very well done yeah yeah we appreciate

it we uh we uh took what you said to heart and it made all the world of a difference yeah you guys are incredible we've got a copy of chris hogan's book for you every day millionaires there's no doubt that that is the next chapter in your story you have this fabulous income and you have this ability to control money now instead of it or the lack of

it controlling you you guys have worked together you're a team you've done everything the right way very very well done congratulations it's not a perfect process but it gets you there and now you're free yeah so very well done thank you

matt and sarah minneapolis minnesota 141

000 paid off in 17 months making 235 to

280. count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one

[Applause] [Laughter] i love it well done you two

very very well done tyler is in kansas city hi tyler how are you i'm well how are

you guys doing better than we deserve you got a little football hangover today no so i am a king tom fan so i'm really excited about how yesterday went oh man

you're on pot you're unpopular in your own neighborhood yeah man we're going we're going to end this car right now [Laughter] how can we help you today sir well yeah thank you for uh taking my call yeah i've been a big big fan of your show for a while dave and read the total money makeover as a wedding gift my wife and i um as of monday last week we were officially on baby step four i submitted my uh

application or whatever on fidelity to get my uh retirement funded feels good now that i'm on babies what was that it was good doesn't it it does but now that i'm here it's like you know i kept pushing to get to through baby step three and now that we're here it's like now what that's why that's why i thought i'd give you a quick call um so my question is twofold i've been

reading several books one of which is rich dad

poor dad and he talks a lot about asset generating um or inc asset generating income but uh i i know what you'll say to me right now so i'm going to ask that question the question i'm having is i'm wondering i'm in a career where

i i work in a public accounting firm

where i don't make quite as much as the market pays so i'm in a position where i'd be able to leave where i'm at right now for a fairly significant pay bump like what's that what do you make now what would you make if you left yeah yeah great question so right now i make 67 and i've had several friends leave within the last couple years and they're both over 100 probably close to 110.

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our scripture of the day proverbs 13 11

wealth gained hastily will dwindle but whoever gathers little by little will increase it

winston churchill said continuous effort not strength or intelligence is the key to unlocking

our potential anthony o'neil ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with tyler in kansas city he's in public accounting

has a job making sixty seven thousand as the opportunity baby step four just got there it's the opportunity to possibly take uh a position making almost double that somewhere else and uh i said well if the people are high quality why in the firm is high quality why would you not do that and you were beginning to explain something to us as we headed into the commercial tyler what was that yeah

thanks for coming back yeah so and this is kind of goes back to the what we've been we being accounting majors have been taught throughout uh college is there's a certain threshold that you hit like it's almost you know it's a five-year benchmark that you hit in public accounting and at that point you've kind of earned your stripes and then you've increased your earnings potential and so it's almost like a long game a long-term game that they're that

you know i'm trying to think long-term that if you leave before this five years you've limited your earnings but to your point

you know if i use my sorry i'm confused

if you stay making half of what you can make you are earning your stripes how

yeah this is this is the conundrum that

we you know i've been wondering is it you get a title that sounds like something from the 1950s

it's very archaic no but it's not you know the truth is is that the money to be made in your field is not in public accounting

long term it would be but that's 10 15

years out well building a book of business uh yeah

once you're a partner and it's about your book of business and it's much more lucrative but as a first couple years it's it's certainly not i see okay so you're on a model where you're trying to make partner much like a law student where they work your butt off you get nothing for five years and then hopefully you can get your foot in the door it's just yeah it's very similar yeah okay all right

so that's what you mean by that so if you went the other direction why would you not be on the same track you're you're working you know you're working for a a corporation doing accounting at that point you're not up for partner you're not going to stay in that world is that what you're saying yes okay so what does a partner make it's a place you work now yeah it's kind of a smoke

and mirrors question but i would say probably close to 800 depending on market and clients but

800 and above okay and you're how far out from that oh 14 years yeah

yeah and to be pretty candid that's not really where i want to live you know i'm not

real sure where i want to go but i'm pretty sure i don't want to be a partner so it's almost a question of is it worth sticking around longer for potential higher earnings outside of public accounting because i stayed longer here if that makes sense yeah i think i'm

moving on yeah i'm glad you said that dave that's just my inclination and because i think that the other thing that i see with folks um you know in your field is is that there's a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities that open up over time that you use your finance and accounting expertise in uh that can even be in a startup situation where you would make even more than

you might have made where your partner in a medium-sized firm so there's a lot of different ways your career could bend and twist and turn over the years um but um you know number one i think

the the key thing here of what you said is you don't really like the destination so why go 14 years to get there

yeah that answers my question

that's definitely something that i've been you know on the ken coleman episodes in his show you know that's one of the things that i often think about as well so it's the old thing of if you climb the ladder of success and it's leaning on the wrong building oh crap yep yeah you know

and so you know we want to make sure the stinking ladder is leaning in the right place now you know so what i've discovered is is that the economy and the career path these days is a lot more dynamic and a lot more fluid than just

one possible path for a given

field of endeavor i would have never thought i would have been on the path i ended up on with a degree in finance and real estate it was definitely not my intent to end up going broke and then coaching people on how not to do that but uh it worked out okay for me you know so it's a twist and a turn and you you know you pivot

and you uh play the hand that's dealt you and so on so uh it's in other words if you took the other position and you were there five years making twice and you were piling up cash during that time that gives you the option to do other things if you wanted to take a a hard right or hard left turn utilizing some of those skills and again go into an entrepreneurial startup of some kind or start your own public accounting firm build your own book of business where

you is the podna baby yes and uh that kind of a thing and you've got all kinds of options like that and you know uh with an extra four or five hundred thousand dollars uh in the next 10 years that would be

you know give it just give you a lot of options so i just don't think it's going to end up being a straight line to success and you don't like where the ladder is leaning anyway so i'm standing there i'm i'm i'm gonna go ahead and start looking that other direction yeah um so maybe you need to live your dream not your professor's dream so just my idea what do

i know i like that dave open phones this hour simon is with us simon's in tallahassee florida hi simon how are you hi dave hi anthony it's absolutely delightful to speak to both of you you too sir how can we help well i have a real estate question for you um i'm a young entrepreneur in tallahassee i have student rental business here and i'm having real trouble finding reliable affordable uh contractors plumbers etc

that actually show up to work and do the job properly so i was wondering how you went about finding proper contractors that's a good question because i had the same question for dave simon

no surprise you know when my son

15 years ago was in high school we were doing a little bit of renovation on our home and uh the guy wasn't showing up and the guy wasn't showing up and we're coming home one day and daniel says uh dad i'm he's 15 years old i'm going in the construction business i said why and he goes it's a really easy business all you have to do is do what you say you were going to do and show up and you have no competition

and it is it is i mean you can make if you're a contractor you can make a mint in that world by reasonably pricing

and showing up on time and uh doing what

you said you're gonna do keeping your word and uh to the point that uh too many times people don't yeah in that in that field so uh nick what we

have done over the years is number one uh we have settled in like for our rental properties and the properties that we manage and that we own we have settled on the fact that in order to lower our aggravation level we have increased what we spend to get a better person so you're you're really not going to get a super cheap contractor and get good work on time without problems it's just i

i have not had that as a experience because most of the guys that are in that world they charge a little more because they know that they're the only ones that are going to do the right job on time the way they say it so and i'll just pay a little more so i don't have the heartache of having to restart the project four times with four different people that screw

it up every time so i pay a little bit more uh not a lot more i'll pay double i don't mean that but i'm i i just changed my mindset on not necessarily always going with the lowest bid and the second thing we do is is that we are 100 of the time always looking

for more contractors

if we have a paint a guy that does painting for us and we've got a really good one right now he's an incredible guy um but we've always we're always looking for another one because i don't know what day he's not gonna you know at what point he's gonna blow up yeah and so if i've got options

as backup i need i need some bench depth

and so just because i've got someone that does good roofing doesn't mean i'm going to only work with one roofer i'm going to always have another one on the bench ready to go and just because i've got someone that's good at building a deck you know whatever whatever the thing is that you're wanting done i want another one in queue yeah and uh pay a little more

and get some bench depth and that's about the only way to avoid the majority of the heartache good question thank you for joining us anthony good job today dave america thank you that puts us hour the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with

the prince of peace christ jesus

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you

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## 199. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from February 9, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Applause] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice ken

coleman ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money if you're familiar with ken's show it's broadcast now on about 75 talk radio stations across america plus big time podcast numbers and youtube followers and he talks about your career and finding joy in your work finding work that uh

has meaning so if you've got career questions job questions maybe you're bouncing back after a little covet 19 action i noticed we all had a little of that last year well ken's here to help phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five ryan is with us in cleveland ohio hey ryan how are you

hey sir how are you i'm great good how can we help got a quick question for you so i'm 24 years old out of cleveland ohio and looking to purchase my first home and a

little worried because of how the market is right now i kind of want to just ask your opinion you know with interest rates being so low it seems like if you're not the first offer and at least forty thousand dollars uh over asking you don't have a shot so kind of wanted to ask your opinion on that well i i don't play those games i've bought

real estate my entire adult life i own a bunch of real estate i bought a piece of real estate last week but i did not uh i did not uh offer

more than asking price in order to get it uh i don't get it caught up in that um my guess is you offered quite a bit lower yes no on this particular course

yeah i wish you

we were 35 000 over on our last um

house we looked at and we lost it yeah well you didn't you weren't supposed to get it it was a dumb purchase that's exactly right and i'm thankful i didn't get it yeah don't don't purchase something thirty five thousand dollars over asking i mean you're not desperate man you're 24.

okay you're single i am single but a

girlfriend of six years awesome okay and you are uh not

buying a house with her you're buying a house by yourself it is yep it's gonna be under my name and uh she'll also be helping to pay the mortgage nope

nope nope don't sleep with your partner and it'll just be on me don't sleep with your partners bad idea you'll get yourself in a mess if you want to if you want to if you want to do that it's time to get married uh but no you're gonna get yourself into a huge mess if you've set your life up based on something uh based on a roommate situation uh

so no if you're gonna buy you're gonna buy based on your numbers or you're gonna get married if we're gonna base it on both numbers because then you've got all kinds of protection she has all kinds of protection she's not paying someone else's mortgage on a home she doesn't own i'm her dad right now i'm not going to allow her to do that that's a bad move for her okay

it will all be under me then yep all right so you got your down payment and you have an emergency fund right yes sir i've got i've got money in the bank and my other question too would would it be smart to uh take advantage of the fha or should i just do it conventionally conventional is the cheapest loan by far a lot lot less expenses and

you need a good solid down payment 15-year fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth of your household take-home pay if you change your household by getting married then you can recalculate that if you don't then you're going to run it on yours now the deal is this there's a couple of

things that cause people to get uh goodbyes

on anything real estate included number

one is patience

if you get emotionally married to

something you're gonna pay too much and it's dude it's a stinking house there's houses on every corner in cleveland i've been there there's a lot of houses in cleveland so you don't need just i gotta have this house you know when you when you when you get house fever like that you need to go home take a cold shower slow your butt down

slow slow

that's who gets the best buy it's the second person that gets the next buy next best buy is the person has the most knowledge so you learn the market you keep looking at this neighborhood you're looking at that neighborhood you know the differences in them you know the nuances you know the prices over there there's nothing in this neighborhood is sold for more than 350 dollars a square foot 250 a square foot 1250 a square foot whatever

it is you know what it's going for and so something comes on the market that is uh you know you can look at the numbers very quickly because you've gathered information he with the most

information he with the most options

because you don't get emotionally married to something and he with the most patience is the one who gets the best

buys and a wise purchase slow your

butt down it needs to

in this market is hot white hot as it is it may take you a year to buy a house just enjoy the process

you're not dying paying a little rent you're not gonna but don't go in there and overpay and it's just man i tell you what you you smell like somebody's getting ready to overpay because you got you're just so freaking excited he's in his early 20s he's in great financial situation the first house is the first house i get why it's so exciting it is exciting stacy and

i bought a house uh two and a half years in the marriage we ran in for two and a half years and we look back on that house now and we go oh wasn't that cute it's the first house it was nice it was a good move for us we were patient but it's the first house and the other thing here and i'm not trying to get in his relationship business

but it's very interesting to me that he that i don't know if he's talked to this girl about this or not but he was under the impression that she was going to pay some of the mortgage and they've been dating for six years and i think i don't want people to miss the relationship piece as to why you were so quick to go hey whoa whoa we're not gonna do that

and that you know six years we need to decide at six years whether or not we're moving forward or not six years is plenty of time to decide i'm a painter get off the ladder yeah so why are we talking about going into a co-mortgage situation with someone you've been dating six years i just think that part of life has got to be figured out first the

first house will always be there always slow down

just slow down

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five now here's what's happened the real estate market is quite hot and so that's one of the things that you need to get one like one of our endorsed local providers and you know you may have a high quality real estate agent that says you're going to pay more than asking price to buy in this neighborhood in which case

you just go well i'm probably not gonna be buying that neighborhood take it off the list or i'm not gonna be buying that neighborhood now i'll just wait this thing calms down a little bit it's okay now is there a housing bubble is there going to be a drop in values no i do not think so

like i said i bought a piece of real estate last week and by the way i did pay retail i didn't i didn't get a deal i offered it anyway get a deal right his kneecap is

sore i bit him on the knee but i didn't but

it's okay you know but um

my wife was involved and when my wife was involved i never get a deal because it's s-w-i sharon she sees the offer she goes sheridan wants it [Applause] you're gonna make them mad i'm like honey it's a spiritual gift oh my this is the dave ramsey show [Music]

we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org backslash budget we absolutely believe in it

ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five roland is in oregon hi

roland how are you i'm good dave how are you better than i deserve how can can i help

well my wife and i have been doing the baby steps our entire marriage about 16 months we've always been on the same page and recently we did a zoom call with the

financial advisor that she had before we met he helped her set up a roth ira and

she wanted to introduce me and he advised us to be fully funding her 401 and also

be saving for a home while we're paying

off student debt and so now she wants to throw your plan out the window and i want to keep going like a gazelle to pay that debt and i don't know how to get her back back on the plan i don't either yeah

well she thinks now that that

your your steps are kind of a broad stroke for people who are making poor decisions and

they're designed for people like her let me take a stab at this how much how much debt do you have right now 134 134 000 made up of what

student debt all student loans yeah any

of that any of that hers no sir it's all yours

how much do you make how much do you make i'm making none right now i'm a full-time seminary student she makes 340. she makes 340 000 a year yes sir

and and you're she's a doctor yeah

she is a a surgeon yes yeah

okay that's going to hurt my plan because here's the stab i was going to take and that is that she's got to see that while this guy has made this advice to her that you still got this debt and you're and you're it's going to take so much longer to pay it off doing it his way in her way and you're going to actually make progress faster part of

the problem dave i think is we've got a uh she's the full-time income she's the only income and she's making big money and she doesn't feel it doesn't hurt her enough the debt doesn't hurt and rowan i don't know how to help you let me tell you what you're experiencing yeah 30 years of me coaching people in finance the worst people the worst

category of people handling money are medical doctors as a category they suck at handling money worse than pro athletes worse than

anybody and the reason is is that they're very very smart intellectually and they make the mistake

of thinking that that translates to finance they don't know beans about finance but they have an intellectual arrogance

and they go make stupid but decisions and they firmly believe with all of their intellectual arrogance that they're making the right decisions and it's the worst category now not all medical doctors are that way but it's stereotypical i mean i'm in nashville with country music artists some of them do some stupid butt stuff some of them are brilliant with money i mean i meet everybody from actors to pro athletes to whatever over 30 years the worst

category are medical doctors they are perpetually in debt and they're perpetually underperforming in their wealth building because of their intellectual arrogance

and that's what you're running into and i don't know how to fix that because now she and her little financial advisor who between the two of them don't know beans uh about money have made a decision so i really i i don't know how to help you sir how long before you get out of seminary and start working it doesn't matter i mean well it's 340 000

they could pay it all off in one year but i mean unless he convinces instead the financial advisor kept her is keeping student loans around like they're a freaking pet i got she got a hundred and forty thousand dollars of student loan debt she makes 340 000 if you can't pay that off in a year you're a wimp yeah

it's ridiculous that this advisor takes this poor a stance and leaves this couple in debt this far you should be sued for malpractice as a financial advisor for doing that that's just asinine just

asinine but they're gonna do it

so i honestly don't know how to help you that's what you're coming up against though and um truthfully some humility on her

part is in order and saying you know what i really don't know anything about this area i just listened to this one guy and you know he disagrees with the other guy and so maybe now we can have a discussion but no no no don't doubt dave ramsey's a knuckle dragger and his his ideas are primitive and they're broad strokes how about the broad stroke your idiot financial planner gave you there's a broad stroke for you so i mean

just just god aggravating his crud so i

i honestly don't know how to help you i really don't know how to convince someone in that situation what to do i think you're going to experience pain before you do and i think you're going to experience that she makes a lot of money and you're not going to get the best use of it as long as you're following this idiot that she had on the phone well

the one thing we can do is he can if she's not going to get on board then once he starts working he's going to take all of his salary and yeah but now we're telling people split their money apart and that's going to split couples apart that's not healthy for their relationship well no i'm not one hold on i got to because i don't want to confuse

the audience i'm not suggesting that they split their money i'm saying well they have a split plan her plan and his plan well but he's not going to not pay the debt off yeah well he's got to pay it off he is if he goes along with her yeah so i mean you're not going to pay it off for 30 years if he goes along with her yeah that's true

i think he's got to sit down and show her if we pay this off look how much more we can invest how much quicker that's the only shot he's got it's just a little she married a seminary student so maybe we ought to read the bible there is borrower is slave to the lender that's true about that let's try that one yeah i just don't the only thing is dave

i just don't think you were clear enough with him and i don't think he showed enough emotion i feel like you mailed that i feel like you mail that call in no i get it it's frustrating it's a tough situation because this is a marriage well it is and you know he's getting bullied

well okay so i'm gonna bring this up and i don't and if you send a hate mail i'm not going to read it so don't send it uh well go ahead and send it we use it for kindling yeah that's true we do we use it for the fire pit out back yeah um how much this has nothing to do with her being a woman him being a man

but how much of this is the fact that it's his debt student loan debt and she's the sole bread winner i think that's a big factor in this isn't it it can be in

the fact that she doesn't think he's got a vote yeah that's what i'm getting at she's going this is something should have been handled before you get married i agree that you know this is a messy psychological deal given her 100 of their marriage she's gonna out earn him yes unless he has some kind of ridiculous career in ministry that that most people don't have right i mean a pastor's income is not going to keep up with the medical doctor's income and 340 000 a year in 99

of the cases so this is going to be an issue for 50 years oh big time if that's if that's really marital counseling yeah just like any other problem with it be parenting hey she wants to discipline the kids this way i think it's this way this is a big issue this is marital counseling is what this is this is the shot to get somebody objective in

there in the middle let both of them hear each other out and they've got they've got to fight on this as a married issue this is just like any other major issue in your marriage in fact maybe bigger let me explain to you what i'm talking about because some medical doctors are all mad at me now because i didn't call all of you i said the category okay it's a stereotype right which means that some people aren't right

but here's the thing the people that have

the most trouble with money are oftentimes

the most that have the best and the

highest intellect because they overthink it they think it's a math problem and personal finance is only 80 behavior

20 head knowledge it is a math problem but it is not the problem the problem is your relationships the problem is understanding the flow

of your income and you know where it's

going to go understand the spiritual principles that are underlying all of this and uh you know sometimes i run into an accountant or an engineer or i don't know

name somebody an attorney someone else who you know and there can be people in other category career fields that have high intellect but i'm people people are highly intelligent and highly analytical and both also are the ones that struggle the most to win with money well remember this most of

the world used to think the world was flat dave and these people are running in a world where it says you just go you get the debt and you're eventually going to out earn it it's not a problem so if everybody says it then you just believe it you should just do everything at the same time you need to get out of debt that's right the world is flat

now we've confused everyone now i'm just lost yeah i am truly a knuckle dragger this is the

ramsay show

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[Music] ken coleman ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today open phones at

triple eight eight two five five two two five if you

feel like you will always be stuck paying off your debt well it doesn't have to be that way it won't take nearly as long as you think it will with ramsey plus we're going to kick you off with a 90-day guided plan

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to do a free trial text the word trial

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eight nine and you guys have got your

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six amazing templates to make your resume stand out and it's been a fun resource so it's a way to to pull yourself out of the pile uh to not just submit the free ones are there free and 9.99

789 as well resume 233-789

evan is with us in orlando hi evan how are you hey dave hey ken thanks for taking my call guys sure how can we help i yes my question is i'm wondering if you guys have ever heard of a million dollar baby plan yeah it's a bad whole life policy for kids

okay i was just trying to figure out because i heard it from my brother and my alarm bells were going off when you were telling me whole life and investing yeah they should go off it's just it's crap it's just got a it's got a snazzy name you know how you're going to get a million dollars in there you put 2 million in

it's it's the old joke how do you make a small fortune in a winery you start with a large fortune yeah they're playing on your emotions

it is a great name but the chances of you ending up with a million dollars in your baby's whole life policy is almost zero i mean

you would have to put so stinking much money in there the rates of return are pitiful they keep all the money that you put in for the first three years it is just a really bad

savings account with a life insurance company sucks beyond belief great name

i mean i pulled up one website it's got a baby standing there with a fistful of dollars yeah which he's getting ready to give to the insurance company that's so true so

yeah i'm sorry your brother got got had man tell him to run well it turns out ramsay solutions has had a million dollar baby plan since inception it's called the baby steps yeah well because if you actually work them out well you can actually invest money into your kid's name 529 plan right you become a millionaire and leave it to your kids wow there you go that's how you do it yeah yeah no there's no free laws no no no no

whole life i love it they always go it's tax-free growth yeah not really that's true that's semantics the only way you get the money out that you put in and not pay taxes on is you borrow it and you pay interest on your money so let me tell you something if you put money listen if you put money in a bank and you've got two hundred thousand dollars in a bank

and cds and you go borrow a hundred thousand dollars out of that same bank while you're two and you pledge your 200 000 rcd against it there's no taxes on that borrowed money there's no taxes on borrowed money duh yeah borrowing money is not a taxable event right because you're but you're borrowing your own stinking money and paying them interest to get it out so it's time it's tax-free growth

it literally means it's not it's an industry that's been screwing people since this is the power of marketing language we to wake up yeah but that's a great integrate title billion dollar baby are you kidding me what good parent doesn't want to have i want baby to be a million dollar baby i mean you're not a parent what kind of parent wouldn't do that yeah rodney's with us in little rock hey rodney how are

you doing well guys how about y'all staying warm just barely brother how can we help

my uh so i'm in sales business development good company good industry and my question is

you know thinking back to college the professors that really stood out to me or the ones that maybe just taught a night class or or one class and came from the business world and it's something that i always thought about maybe could you know do later and i was wondering what would be the way to to maybe check check into that to see if that was something

i would be qualified for or even be considered for a you know a night class or one class something like that at a community college or even a four-year school yeah well you just you just put all the elements of your plan so here's what you've got to do so let's start talking to the community college and go hey i've got a college degree i assume you do is that correct that's correct

so you got the college degree and so the question is on the community college level do i need a graduate level degree to be able to be a part-time professor no and the answer is no and i think it's probably no at your state schools as well so if you look at little rock you have a phd in life my brother yeah i think it's making connections

so what i'd start doing is is i'd go out of class if it were me i want to make connections best way to make connections get in the places where the right people are hanging out that is the essence of the book the proximity principle that i wrote and i'm going to give it to you as my gift but here's what i would do go audit some classes they're going to allow

you to do that after the class is over all the students file out here comes a sharp business guy like you who's on purpose and human humble and you go to the professor and go hey i eventually want to get in here teaching some business classes or teaching the class on this and this and this and you do it and you get clear on what courses they offer

and you ask that professor to connect you to who's in charge of that they've got all the information they got the connections and if they put in a good word for you great and you go start meeting people and sit down when they see a guy like you who doesn't want a full-time job who just wants to do it for the love of it uh and you've always wanted to do

it and they hear that from you that enthusiasm that passion and that humility say hey i'm on call i don't need money i'll take your part-time pay but i'm i'm here for passion i want to sign up what do you want me to do any qualifications beyond my college degree you want me to get yeah i'll go do it and here's what's going to happen eventually the phone's going to ring well

i don't think it takes that long i don't either i'm

stroll into the president's office of course you are well to the president's community calling well yeah but you're still not strolling in that lady in charge of that office is powerful i'm gonna stroll in and talk to her and tell her what i'm doing and say listen i've got a phd in life and i've got an undergrad and i think i can teach a business class at night

i kind of want to do it for fun um what's the what's the chances of me talking to you guys about doing that if they throw you out then go do ken's plan yeah they won't throw you out but right but these are yeah both of those will work try both yeah because i mean i don't think the barrier of entry is that big because i got to tell

you one of my favorite classes that i ever took was exactly what you're talking about yeah i mean i was in i got a degree in real estate and finance and a guy that was doing real estate syndication doing what i wanted to do taught a class called real estate syndication at night i mean he was an actual practitioner you know and oh my god i was just dying

it was like it was like elvis if you were in the music business man i thought if i could just be in his class and i'd do anything to take that class and i got in there and took it and and i learned a lot about syndication from that class because a guy was actually a practitioner on his day job he was doing real estate syndication that's my whole beef with a lot of colleges

we got professors teaching you theory they've never done it and i tell young people all the time i'm okay with college but you better go spend some time with people that are actually doing what you want to do successfully because they can teach you and it's a master class over lunch for crying out loud this guy he'll have no problem getting in there yeah i want to see him stroll into

the president's office so i'm looking forward to stroll just stroll don't walk strong that's

confidence i'm telling you he's gonna get hired immediately there's no question go do that for sure this is the dave ramsey show

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and coleman ramsey personality best-selling author is my co-host today open phones here on the ramsay show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five

crystal is with us in newport news virginia hi crystal how are you

hi thank you thank you for having me sure what's up um yes i was calling um

my husband passed away last year and um

it's been it's been a crazy year for sure um i'm a single mom i have 30 children

a 15 10 and six-year-old

at the moment my goal was to go back to work but with this covet thing that's going on i am currently a

homeschooling teacher um and it's just

not not possible at this time i'm currently

bringing in about 30 grand a month that i'm supporting the four of

us on and i i just

when he passed we sold our house and i moved into an apartment so i could get my bearings and i'm just kind of ready to get into a more stable living situation um an opportunity to

fall into my lap i'm doing dealing with a special type of loans that can offer me a lower house payment

as well as little to no down payment

and i can have an actual modular home built for myself and my children um

how old are you i'm actually about to be

36. okay what happened

um cancer oh no i'm sorry yeah

he um he was i was in school and

he got a stage four cancer diagnosis and

wow i put school on hold to take care of

him my children and that was also on my list of

possibilities after he passed away i was like well maybe i can go back to school um but again with this covet thing it's really put me in a bad spot yeah uh no the covet

thing's not put you in a bad spot you lost your husband world got turned upside down that puts you in a bad spot um i'm so sorry i'm so sorry

so um here here's um it sounds like

you've made some really wise moves so far um

and uh and you have good instincts your

instinct is to try to get things stable for your kids

in a world where your entire family's world was turned upside down and so you're clawing and scratching for stability and for for a solid ground and um

so i i think you sit right there in that

apartment let's not do this house deal this is a bad deal you're looking at okay and it's a deal it's a deal that satisfies you emotionally but it is not um in a time when you're hurting but it is not a good long-term play

several things you said there were bad words in the in the world of your future and it was modular it was um nothing down it was a reduced

payment it was this is a special plan

um you know all of these things mean that you basically can't afford to do this deal right now and you're being put you know you're being sucked into something here that's not going to be a blessing to you i i want you to take the final stages

in the next 12 months out of your grief

into your future and as you do

those then make a decision on a house

but i think you haven't made the turn completely yet because you don't have a 10-year plan to live like you're living

yeah your 10-year plan includes some kind of a career move for you and ken she needs to start taking some steps that yeah i just wanted to ask what were you going to school for what was the vision you had a vision attached to that yeah nursing actually um

how much do you lack i'm about three

classes shy of applying to nursing school to nursing school yeah and then you got to what a two-year plan yes i mean it's been a little bit nerve-wracking because um you know obviously with the nursing

school itself it's very um

you have to show up every single day and it makes it hard being again a single parent with three children um i just

so i i've i was assuming that i would go back you have family in the area um very little a lot of my dependencies

relies on my 81 year old grandmother um

where is your family um

just various situations my mother how

did you all end up in newport news well i i was born in newport news oh okay um yeah so we've been around a lot it's just that like i said stability is not all there my mother had a stroke when she was 32 and she's disabled and you know my father i just

got him into rehab a couple years ago and he's been yeah i'm sober now for two years almost every two years in may um honey you've had enough crisis to last anybody yeah crystal crystal i want to encourage you crystal i want you to hear what i'm about to say so right now you are in a storm

and that storm's not going to last forever um kids get back into school that's going to alleviate a lot of things i want you to focus on trying to build some community whether you try to go to church or you begin to really seek relationships because there are people out there who want to help and will help you and you've got to be okay saying i can't do

this on my own but you've you're doing a tremendous job right now on your own but you're not going to have to always be on your own you need to embrace that now here's what happens once the kids situation when you're not home school teacher once that begins to alleviate we want to get you in a situation where you can finish those classes and if you've got to press pause for a little bit

before nursing school to get a really good paying job and get out there and save and save and save and cash flow your way through nursing school even if that takes you three to five years did you get uh life insurance you can do it yes um

i i i had about um i have about 55

000 in a savings account that i haven't really messed with too much good keep that i had a 7 800 credit card

from him that i i've been paying off i've got it down to about 58 now and i've got 30 20 about 29 000 in student loans so

far it's just um all right we're gonna we're gonna send you a bunch of materials we're gonna walk with you we're gonna send you a bunch of materials we're gonna send you ken's book on careers okay i'm sending you anthony o'neil's book called debt free degree a new way of thinking about going to school and not going into debt and then we're going to put you into ramsey plus which is our master class on financial peace university it's got all

the stuff in it we're going to pay for every bit of it okay we're going to come around you put our arms around you all right i certainly appreciate it i like i said i just didn't know what direction really to go with it you know my husband i want you to wait on buying a house until after nursing school yep with um with the actual apartment

situation the one that i'm currently in i wouldn't say is necessarily the greatest neighborhood and there's been a couple incidents uh there's a gentleman that was if you need to move and rent a little house somewhere that's fine but i would not buy a house right now right okay crystal you listen your brain's on fire yeah you got so much going on you've had so much coming at

you that it's very difficult to make large financial decisions when you have this much of a cloud over uh you know three different directions yeah every different direction every morning you wake up with a new idea yeah you know crystal i want you to hear this crystal listen dave gave you great financial advice you got to get your financial house in order first here's what i want

you to hear nursing school is still going to be there yep the very reason why you wanted to be a nurse and caring for people it's still going to be there it's not that far away don't you let this storm of life discourage you and confuse you from what you want to do and that nursing job is not going to just be something you love to do

but it's going to be something that takes care of those three kiddos get your financial house in order do what we tell you take all the gifts stay focused don't quit you're gonna come out of this storm and when you come out of it we get our financial house in order and then we move towards nursing you're so close don't you dare quit yeah i ken's exactly right let me tell

you what i heard okay i'm talking to a 36 year old right

that's what she said yes 36 okay

when you're 56

you have had a long nursing career working as many hours as you wanted to work and you're probably going to have close to a million dollar net worth that's exactly the end of this story beautiful vision you're going to be there and i'm going to show you exactly how to do it and ken's going to show you exactly how to do it so he's right you but but we don't need to

take any missteps along the way to keep us from getting there you can do it you hold on kelly's going to get you signed up for everything as our gift garland i'm so sorry

this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career your hero in your

story [Music] live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i am dave

ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book the proximity principal is my co-host today which means we can talk to you about not only money but careers because that's what the ken coleman show does every day for a couple hours a day so we'll talk to you about your future and your income side of the equation i can talk to you about both sides of

the equation the income and the outgo side we'll just generally jump all up in your business because it's what we do here the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five kevin starts off this hour in greenville south carolina hi kevin how are you hey dave it's it's an absolute pleasure to talk to you i've been listening to you since i was 19 years old 33 now

and i just wanted to say thank you so much for everything you do thank you sir how can we help well i'll be brief um it's uh two quick questions if i can the first one um is i'm in babies four five and six i make 120 000 a year i'm married

and i'm 33 i'm getting near 100 000

in my uh roth iras and 401ks and i started looking into the self-directed iras to invest in real estate because i heard that i had heard from previous episodes that you recommend doing that um my question is that i'm trying to find a good company and i notice that there's no fidelities or vanguards uh in in this in this space is there any

companies that you would recommend that do this type of uh uh

no i don't have one that we recommend and i generally don't recommend it unless someone uh is really really hot on real estate and knows their stuff in real estate it's not a beginners if you're a beginning real estate investor i wouldn't put my 401k money into that uh now i do know people that have done very very well with it and of course the rules are that all the money made on the real estate whether it's from a flip or from the rental income has to stay

in the ira the ira has to fund

everything and all the money stays in there so it's not like you own a real rental real estate and you get a rental check and you get to put in your bank account you don't it has to stay inside of there

and so you're managing this property

for your retirement years not for today's income and that's what you've really got to get your head around and that's what's it's very constricting in a lot of ways but what it does do is it does free up a bunch of capital to pay cash for some real estate and those kinds of things typically you can find a local bank that has a self-directed program and you can look into that and there's probably a few places online and i would just shop them out but i don't have a particular uh

company that we say do that with and

i don't know if any of the smart mr pros would have that or not uh because it's not what we send people to them for so i don't know i mean they're helping you just do a traditional 401k or roth iras or those kinds of things your 529s for your kids college all that kind of stuff and so i don't know you know you could ask a smart investor pro in your area

they may actually have the service through their broker dealer that they can do that with but most of the time uh we do not recommend my personal

401k is not a self-directed plan my

personal ira is not it's just in mutual

funds just like we teach everybody else to do now i buy a lot of real estate but it's outside of that and the the constricted portion of that is there ken i knew a guy when i was doing real estate deals back in my 20s a thousand years ago that um retired

from uh kodak that's how long ago it was

oh wow yes kodak was a company a big

deal that was a huge company back in those days i mean this is 40 years ago 35 years ago and he had like in those days a lot of money half a million dollars and he took that and started buying real estate and flipping with it and ended up with about two or three million dollars with real estate in his it was his old 401 k and

he rolled it over into a self-directed when he retired and did did real estate deals in it but again you have to have an income to eat with other than that because you can't touch that money it's trapped in there until you're 59 and a half now in his case he was over 59 and a half so he could pull money out without penalty but it's like pulling money out of your retirement account

and if i heard you right he knew what he was doing this was he was he was a seasoned real estate investor yeah not a good idea for a rookie just to play with this game yeah i wouldn't use my my retirement plan right if i'm for my first five deals you know i wouldn't i think it's very dangerous

because you know real estate is starting your own business is the american dream buying and selling real estate seems to be the american dream everybody wants to do it and i've done both in my life a lot um

and so i don't recommend against those things what i do want everyone considering either one of those things there's a lot of people uh in their 20s right now it's like it's just this there's a a surge of entrepreneurism

right now for people in their 20s which is wonderful for america it's wonderful for them uh but the the thing is it it

starting running your own business is probably 10 times harder than you think it's going to be there's a i mean it's just going to take a while and you don't know what you're getting into and you're going to stumble around and you're going to bump into stuff in the dark and bloody your nose and the same thing's true with real estate you know everybody says well you just buy a house

and use flip house and he's like they've been watching too dead gun much cable tv and some you know guy you know you see an edited version of reality uh in a reality show and some guy walks

in and buys a house and they change the kitchen out or some kind of crap it's on tv and it absolutely does not work that way out here in the real world well they'll they'll go in and say oh this wall has to come out it's got all kinds of rod in or whatever and they go well it's going to add to the budget and then we move to

the next segment yeah it doesn't happen in the real world it's more expensive than you think flipping houses but here's what's going on there's a lot of people out there praying on these young kids 20s and 30s going this is the get rich quick debts good use debt to your advantage and they're not telling the other side of the story yeah and that and this isn't the horror story it's not like we're talking about

the one percent chance no you're guaranteed to run into bigger problems than you think flipping houses it's always more expensive it always takes more time contractors don't show up exactly when you when you want them to so in the 90s dangerous in 1985

i bought a package of 12 houses a

package of 12 houses okay i was 24 years old

wow for 240 000

one of them i paid 13 000 for in that package basically it was a pack from one guy who was going broke these were these were run down houses beat up houses in a bad neighborhood that was in air quotes historic and coming back

now 40 40 years later it is now a big

deal historic area right right but 40 freaking years later right okay or 35

years later one of the houses had they built the houses in a building boom some of them with green lumber and the reason the floors were warped was not because they were old it's because there's that lumber drive that pretzeled yes and it got hard as concrete so jacking

those floors up and getting them even took weeks and months

i had that house jacked up with floor jacks and posts under it letting it settle [Music] this is how bad the neighborhood it was they stole the jacks out from under the house one night they don't tell you this stuff that's not only cable tv it's not that doesn't come up on cable tv ever really happened oh how the house didn't fall on the moron's head is beyond me it's unbelievable this is the day

this is the ramsay show

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do

ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today i am dave ramsey your host open phones at 825-5225 rob's with us in virginia beach

hi rob how are you hey mr dave hey ken how you guys doing great man how can we help um so unfortunately i got a divorce recently about a year and a half ago and i'm on baby step two currently and i co-signed for the car that she

currently drives and as per the divorce decree she's responsible for the payments and she's been making them as except for a couple which have negatively impacted my credit but i was just wondering do i need to add like our joint car loan in baby step 2

as part of my debt or do i go by the divorce decree and let her continue making payments and just kind of monitor it well every time she doesn't make a payment on time it's showing up gonna show up on your credit report yes sir she's only done that once fortunately but it hit it hit pretty hard it dropped at about 75 points so um that was about a year ago

and i was just wondering um in baby step two if i need to add her car on the list or not no you don't but you need to get that car paid off and get it off your name so how are you going to do that how are you going to do that i tried i tried to do a transfer of equity but her credit score isn't good enough

so it defaulted back into my name and she also tried to refinance in just her name but unfortunately she's

the type of personality that if i start helping her make payments or make put even a dollar towards it she'll um stop paying it completely so that's just what i'm trying to avoid because so what is the what is the balance on the car she owes

about 23 000 still good lord no you do

so what should have happened in the divorce decree was the sale of the car

yes sir it should have been a forced sale and so um

what do you make a year currently i make

80 000 i'm a disabled veteran so i'm at 100 right now with the i'm

trying to eventually get a home next year so i'm trying to be debt free this year because um it's still counting as long as that car loan as long as that car loan exists you're not debt-free yes sir because there's your name on it yes sir oh i'm sorry well thank you for your service um thank you for your support i uh what does she make um she was a server last night i spoke to her we're not on speaking terms was kind of a nasty divorce unfortunately so last i know she makes around 23

i believe okay so she has a car she can't afford yes sir and i think she's too stubborn

to go ahead and admit that and sell it so that well um

what i would do what i would do is if she misses another payment i would uh hire an attorney and drag her back in before the judge and ask the judge motion the court for the car to be sold yes sir as soon as she misses one payment okay because like i said i'm trying to i'm tired of renting and well the bottom line is that's what's going to help her is to get rid of

the car and it's also going to help you because she she cannot if she's making twenty five thousand dollars a year she doesn't need a twenty two thousand dollar car payment that just doesn't once they paid off yeah sorry go yeah and so and and i don't want you to pay the car off i want you to force her to sell it now if you could convince her that

it was in her best interest to sell it because it is um or if you have anyone that you know that can speak into her life that could convince her um to

sell the car it would be in her best interest it also by the way would be in yours but i mean actually yeah

if she gets a hit at all that is in my best interest she's less likely to do it basically well i mean it's obvious it's in your best interest you owe the money on the you're on the car loan she knows that but that's not the motivation here the motivation is she if she's got to get rid of this car payment because and she can't and so it's killing her

it's eating her alive and so she's going to miss another payment if you can't get word to her or get her to somehow listen to sell the car just go ahead and

have some money set aside for an attorney and the first time she misses a payment immediately petition follow file a motion with the court to have the car sold because she's not the court decree the divorce decree demands that she pays the payments and she's not paying them and she's damaging you and when you get before the judge you can say oh by the way you're on

it she makes twenty thousand dollars a year she's got twenty thousand dollar car payment it's not good for her your honor and he would look at her or she will look at her and say oh yeah you need to sell this car kid that's a bad deal and they'll they'll help her adjust her attitude that's one thing judges are pretty good at they take great great pride in that well

i mean a lot of them honestly at that level a lot of the judges are not it's not like tv they really do care and they actually will look at you and go you know that they use wisdom oh it's like the parent many people have never had exactly exactly i mean uh you know we do a lot of work with the uh uh the foster care system in tennessee

and so we've got to know a lot of the juvenile court judges and stuff and i got to tell you they're they're the best social workers on the planet i mean they really uh they care and they've got the power to do something about it too so uh it's um just it's just wisdom

and this this poor girl is not being wise it's not good for her stephanie is in orlando florida hi stephanie how are you hey thanks for taking my call um i want to know how much i should switch my car i have a 03 um ford expedition i love it but it's an

o3 um i have about

15 in my emergency fund um

and then we have about 25 in another for savings money to make about 250 a year um

but i just don't want to spend more than i spent on some investment houses for a car you're going to you make 250 000 a year you're driving a piece of crap yeah i know but it's a to b

i get it it doesn't take much to make you happy and you're a content person i get that but you're you know i don't you know i'm not

big on i i'm the guy tells everybody sell their car right i'm not the guy tells people buy cars but you need to buy a car darling well what is reasonable for a car

like because i'm looking at and well you have 20 000 set aside for buying a car okay

and that's that's only ten percent of your income yeah and so it's not it's not unreasonable to spend twenty thousand dollars on a car and you can get a great used car for that car okay you had a ton of car wonderful

car for that um okay so take cash and you should

never have all of your cars and things with motors and wheels added together that you own should never equal more than half your annual income because all of those things go down in value but we're not even approaching that oh no i won't sell that much stephanie

listen let me set you free you got 20 000 i think that's your budget that's the top and knowing you you're going to go shop and you'll probably find something for 17 that you love exactly so or you might find something for 20 and you offer them 17 or 15 and they talk i forgot the dave deal yeah if your budget's 20 always offer 15.

first the first car it's like okay now i can afford something and i the the car was 7 500 for some infinity

something or other and i took five thousand dollars in cash in a 100 yes 800 bill and i put it on the back of the uh on the on the trunk i did my best to fan it out but i was shaking yeah because i'd never done it before i was trying to summon dave and there it is there's a deal right there you're gonna sell my car

he said i can't do it for five i said well that's what i'm offering he goes would you take he says would you do it for 55 and i said yes before you quick you should have too quick quick shake shake i don't know man

so that really does work especially if you're buying private party yeah absolutely unbelievable it absolutely does cash still talks baby this is

the ramsay show

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[Applause]

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our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee

that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they will remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run all the time you save even more always use the promo code ramsey

which means you heard it on the ramsay show ramsey blinds.com pretty impressive it'll save you some money all right ken what do we got today's question comes from jack in pennsylvania says i'm struggling to decide whether to leave my job i'm a 31 year old attorney making 154 000 a year i've been the in-house counsel for family owned business for two years a very profitable company but our boss

and founder has severe personal problems he's engaged in illegal drug use for decades and suffers from severe mental illness everyone in the company is afraid of him and morale is low we stay because our high salaries and fear that every boss is like this am i a crybaby for wanting to quit no you're not a crybaby wait a minute i don't have any illegal drug use yeah

i do have severe mental illness well it depends on what article you read

it has been reported that you do i will tell you that that is that is true uh but let me just blow this myth up every boss is not like this you know i know dave that a lot of people who are in toxic work situations what happens is it becomes so toxic and there's a fear of change

domestic violence it is they'll put up with it because i found that humans are are more willing to be miserable than uncomfortable and when he leaves this is a successful lawyer 31 years of age making 150 for a

year you can make that somewhere else i would suggest to you there's several places jack where you can make way more than that as a lawyer so number one every boss is not like this number two you're not a cry baby you should quit but i don't believe in jumping even at the money you make so here's what i'd say bite the stick start looking find something else sign a deal and walk in there and say it's been great i'm out yep yep and

don't try to uh rebuke no i'm mentally ill no toxic

no sense in blowing up a bridge no just go uh it was good thanks yeah i got i'm moving on bigger and better things next appreciate the opportunity next year yeah my goodness drug use for decades

and you're an attorney yeah yeah and you're in you're you're an accessory what yeah dave i just want to say something really quick on this i just because i hear this every day on the ken coleman show i'm trying to help people pursue meaningful work so if you're if you're new to me here on the ramsay show that's what we're doing because we believe that that that everybody longs to make a difference in

the world and through your work and your relationships is how you do it we focus on the work side but i see this every day and here's another case jack represents all of us and there's so many of you out there that are watching listening today and you know you're supposed to leave for a myriad of reasons it's not where you're supposed to be and and one of

the big reasons that people don't leave dave is because they're so scared of the unknown and so they're like i'm miserable but i know what misery looks like i don't know what change looks like and so here's how you step into that when you the fear is of the unknown so what's the antithesis to that the known go get some answers go dig go do some research

this is a require resignation letter go look go look and begin to see what's out there when you begin to see the answers and then you see oh there's a path and there's another stone and another stone another and then all of a sudden it's not so scary but i'm telling you uh fear of the unknown is keeping people

from from leaving miserable situations number one and finding meaning in their work to show up every day like i do here and get to do something i love that produces results that we were out feed my soul yeah we were on the farm the other day and um doing some shooting a bunch of us and uh doing some tactical pistol stuff anyway one of the got his truck stuck in the mud

and you know there's two or three we know number one somebody else can pull you out yes that's what ended up happening here actually but um but i've got my truck stuck in the mud many times and you know one thing you have to do is you have to kind of get you gun it and get it moving and kind of get it rocking back and forth and and then you gun it and you jump out of it you don't you don't kind of like crawl slowly out

you got to get a little rock going that's it then you got to punch it so jack what i'm going to tell you is you need to get a little rock going and you need to punch it meaning that your hesitation in this highly toxic situation is going to lead you to want to stick your toe in the water i don't want you to stick your toe in the water i want you to go on 10 interviews in the next 30 days

that's exactly i want you to do this get it i'm out go yes you got to get out of there

now yes and you need to go look for

lots of jobs and interviews and all of a

sudden you're going to get confidence that it's okay yes and but you can't go on one no no and here's the other thing once you do this jack you're going to find that this is the nudge you've been needing you finally got to your breaking point please don't be like jack jack's a good guy but don't wait until you're miserable you don't even have to work for a bad company

you just got to not like that company that's all it is like we've got one of our senior developers here the top top web guy or when you're uh

coding yeah you know what uh techno technology guys senior developer i mean this is big time oh yeah and he worked at microsoft for a while and matter of fact before he came to us he left seattle and came here came to work for us and he was one of the top guys i mean some of the stuff he wrote inside microsoft was absolutely amazing and so why did

he come to work for ramsey well number one we won best place to work last year in the nation okay and microsoft didn't okay they're not a bad they're not bad people i'm not running them down but he looked up and said i want to write code for and i want to train young coders how to write code for something that matters yes i don't want to just write

it just out into oblivion yes just ones and zeroes out into the universe you know and not have any idea that it changed someone's life but when you're writing code you know here it's life-changing you're setting king coleman up to completely change the entire culture in america away from toxic work and you're setting

rachel cruz and ken and chris hogan and

dave ramsey up to get to change the entire culture inside of america when you're writing code to create a situation where the credit card becomes the cigarette of the financial world where peop where so many people have paid off their student loans and gotten free that their life was transformed because people like you were writing that code he wanted to be involved in something like that and by

the way we're hiring more yes right now yeah we need them we got lots of technology needs right now lots of senior coder you're out there listening man i need you you know product designers we need you uh you know front end back end platform we need you i mean we need you you go to daveramsey.com and click on the we're hiring thing i mean i'll just turn

this into an employment ad yeah by the way tell them that ken recommended you and i might get a little bit of a bonus on that does that work that way dave no it doesn't are they acting hard for the tax they have to know me no no you don't get anything i thought i was going to get that no you're not you're not in that you're not in that you're not that's not part of your comp plan again

i folks we are looking for this is a toxic work environment ken you don't have any money for that [Laughter] but you were saying i'm sorry i was having fun because we recommend people now i mean but the point is yeah that you know what we've got we've got we have we have we have we have a legal team here we've got a you know chief council that's right several attorneys on our sharp lawyers

because we've got all these uh governance and all these contracts and all these other things that we get into hardly ever get into litigation but occasionally we have to deal with that too but uh most of them is trademarking and all these other stuff and so you know that the guy that's our senior legal counsel same situation he came out of uh you know a situation that wasn't toxic

it wasn't that bad but it was just didn't matter what he was doing wasn't making a dent in the universe you know apple i love that was one of their vision things i want to make a dent in the universe we want to make a dent in the transformation of people's lives in ramsey and we are doing that absolutely we're in the process of doing that i mean we're we're changing massive numbers of people's lives here absolutely

and so when you're our legal counsel you know you're not having to work for a guy like this guy and no you're not a crybaby for wanting to have meaning to your work that's just called being wise by the way that's written on your heart i'm just going to tell you your creator writes it on your heart nobody has to teach a person to want to make a difference

you know just like you don't have to teach a toddler to take a toy from another toddler or a lie or to say no that's it's all on we all

want to matter we want to make a difference and some of you listening right now are doing the right thing in the wrong place some of you don't know what the right thing is some of you know what it is but you know how to get there some of you know what it is know how to get there and you're scared to take the leap uh we'll take those calls dave

and i would love to help you on that we believe in you because we believe that you were created philly unique role that you were needed and you must do it yep kencoleman.com to get information on what ken's talking about daveramsey.com if one of those positions sounds like something you need

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five tax season is upon us i know

try to contain your excitement no one likes doing taxes especially after a year like 2020 man it's a hassle to begin with but then you go look for help and these so-called free tax software tools get you knee-deep in the filing process and then they sucker punch you with add-on fees and they want to pitch you like 16 credit cards and a mortgage i want to try to get you into debt i thought i was just here to do my taxes thank you turbo tax drive me nuts man

there's a better way to do it it's announced this year a brand new thing it's called ramsey smart tax our team's brand new tax

filing software it'll help you file with confidence ramsey smart tax you get upfront pricing no credit card pitches no other side deals it's a killer deal no tricks simply help you do your taxes that's simple text the word tax to 33 789 hardly costs anything

tax text the word tax to 33

789 regina is in las vegas nevada hi

nagina regina how are you great dave it's a pleasure to talk to you and ken it's wonderful to talk to you i love your show i just saw matthew mcconaughey so that was wonderful thank you thank you wonderful now dave i

have to pick your brain so this is my story i'm a long time listener and i'm a first-time coordinator very happy coordinator by the way thank you um i'm working back at 37.1

working hard my only bed is my car about to pay it off by september because it's on the budget and it's an online item and it's on strict allocation great um the issue i am

having is i have an attorney bill that's 14 000 and just growing exponentially i have a line item in the budget for it but i just don't have a big enough shovel i'm working day and night i've got four jobs and this build is not going to go away i have an ex-husband who loves to play games so my attorney has

told me in an email that i either need to get a loan or borrow money from my children or he will not represent me i'm stuck

what would you do

uh so the ongoing hassling is over

child uh visitation

and child custody issues

it's basic he wants more he wants more he wants more of him more i pay child support he wants more so it just keeps going every year between i make 42 a year

what do you do i work for a financial

institution the growth potential is limited however

if you ever bring your your product out west i'll be at your front door you said you have four jobs what are the other three i work lyft i work uber i work side job and i donate blood uh eight times a month wow

i work every single hour of the day i don't go to bed till 12 o'clock one o'clock in the morning get up and do it all again who keeps your kids i'm working hard at getting this done i want the dead done who keeps your kids part i can't fix pregnant who keeps your kids um the

custody of battle is basically ongoing but i only have my daughter which is just my little girl on the weekends friday through monday

so i work like you know crazy when i

don't have her and any other days that i can i work what works i work at work what's his financial situation

well that's multi-faceted he hides his assets he has six cars two paid for homes and he says he's broke and he's a student he makes 11.50 an hour

well dave i want to fire the attorney but what do you say yeah i think you need a new attorney well that's a wonderful idea but i don't have another attorney that'll take me either i'm broke i mean i really don't have the retainer yeah i think that's your move uh you know here's the thing you have a 14 000 debt to an attorney if you have a 14 000 debt

to a bank instead of an attorney it doesn't bother me at all i don't care where the debt is if you want to move it and go borrow the money to pay him off that's fine in the process of doing that i'm going to fire him though i just don't have another retainer i know but i'm going to gather up the money and find a way to do this you know even if you borrowed a little bit for a retainer i don't care i mean uh or you sell

something or you do whatever i mean you're just you've been been doing this uh work your tail off and save money for a shorter period of time it's not been for two years uh this but the attorney thing has been going on for a long time but basically basically you're getting your butt whipped and somebody needs to turn the brass knuckles on your axe

metaphorically speaking understood

he's offered me a one-time 30 percent discount do i just go get this loan i mean i'm really out yeah he'll knock 20 off that'd be great if he'll knock 20 off that'll be awesome and then use that 20 percent to get the retainer together and borrow fourteen thousand if fourteen thousand dollars in debt when we started the conversation you now have fourteen thousand dollars in debt we finished the conversation somewhere else and you have a new attorney

your attorney's getting his butt whipped yeah he's terrible he's terrible with the information you gave dave and i a good lawyer who actually cares about you and wants to get this right oh i would he would say i'll take it on contingency because i want to take it out of junior boys yeah all the cars

yeah i mean you know we fixed this but

yeah yeah um yeah this is uh the thing and here's the thing the other issue is is you are going to have to continually like you have a like you have a chronic illness and you're having to every month write

checks to a doctor you have a chronic illness every month you're going to write checks to an attorney until you get this solved one way or another here and i don't think i don't think a simple retainer is going to do it that just moves it gets it out of his hands and you move on but um

you know you're you're working too hard to lose all the time uh kelly uh tell her regina

regina let's have you call my show sometime this week or whatever i want to spend a little more time with her on the shovel part you know because we don't have enough time right now to dive into it but i think we can get her a bigger shovel and that will help tremendously making more money will help this yeah oh yeah definitely would eric is in detroit michigan hi eric how can we help pretty uh thank you for taking my call dave um i was just wondering i'm looking at purchasing um my mom's house

i'm going to be selling my house and purchasing hers but i just want to know the proper way to do that i have siblings i don't want there to be any hard feelings of that i got a deal or took money from her or anything like that i just want to purchase a house for a good price but i don't want to overpay for it obviously so

i just pay the asking price whatever whatever uh um have it appraised and pay that or i'm not sure how to do it exactly well i mean that's the only way everybody's going to be happy it sounds like because it sounds like you're super concerned about it so it sounds like you're going to pay for an appraisal are you getting a mortgage no i'm not my

house doesn't have a mortgage on it i'm just going to sell my house and pay cash for hers okay yeah then i mean if you want to be super bureaucratic about it you hire an independent appraiser to appraise it for 400 bucks and you know you have an appraisal done and you go i'm paid full appraisal i mean who's gotta gripe with that yeah okay now i mean

i mean is that normally uh how i mean because we're not gonna be using a real estate agent no it's not normally how it would be done normally mom would give us give her son a discount i was gonna say i mean she probably would but i don't want there to be any hard feelings between from anybody else and it sounds like that sounds like that that's a potential right like you've got siblings walking around a little chip on their shoulder insurance like deed insurance or anything like that or i'm sorry i've heard of do

i need to get any kind of insurance like deed insurance title insurance yeah you need to get titles yeah i do need to get that still yeah okay and do i just go through a broker to you can get a title company to execute the closing for you they'll prepare the deed record the deed

help you know what all of the recording costs are you'll pay a little bit of uh legal fees and you'll pay for a title policy how expensive a home is this uh i'm guessing 250 000. okay your title

policy is probably gonna be a grand give or take is it okay something like that and then the rest of it's probably gonna be another 500 bucks and odds and ends depending on what it takes to record a

deed in your state i don't know how many what kind of level of taxes michigan has on recordation but um that's what you're talking about here and then there's no question if you had an appraisal that you did the right thing and if anybody questions it you just go this was the appraisal what else did you want me to do but it sounds like there's somebody in the pile here that's not going to be happy no matter what you do so you better be ready for that anyway that kind of goes with zitara tori

oh that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

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this is the ramsay show [Applause] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as

the status symbol of choice ken coleman

ramsey personality best-selling author and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your life your career because ken's here and questions you've got about you know getting the right job in the right situation especially at the right time which is known as now again phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five preston's in sioux falls south dakota hi preston how are

you hi dave hi kevin how you guys doing today better than we deserve sir how can we help uh dave i'm claiming to figure out if we

have self-insured and if you don't mind i've got some numbers give you a better picture of what i got going on so self-insured through what life as far as yes as far as life insurance goes okay i'm uh 52 my wife is 53

and we have a net worth of what i've seen about 1.3 million good for you well done

we have a 20-year term

life insurance policy one on each of us that exposes in six years

currently we i'm thinking about we're in the crossroads of updating that um or letting that lapse if i

die today um i'm figuring that my wife

should probably have that 1.4 million in addition to that i have a pension with a

spousal survivor on it which is about 48

she would receive until she would value what does she need to live a year uh that's been my problem all right right now uh to replace that salary uh on that

pension no you're going to get that she's going to get the pension of 48 000 right yep okay so what does she need to live a year she's got 48 000 how much does she need total i would say uh a hundred thousand a year

okay so we need another 50 grand you got a million for what's the million for invested got 800

investments i've got about 200 in the home and the rest is in the savings okay

so if the 800 produced

10 that'd be 80 000. yes

if it produced six percent um

that'd be plenty i mean you'd still be there okay and so the other thing i was looking at in uh six years when that uh the policy that we have expires i'm going to assume that that 800 should be above about 1.6 would you agree with that yeah 800 in investments you should double on it pretty close to double that yep okay assuming it's invested in good mutual funds

and you're making a you know a 10 plus percent rate of return that would get you there we've been following your plan for 25 years and it's all on the spouse with victory and that plane that you put on there it works and if anybody's questioning it they feel free to give me a call it works on a different level so you didn't you didn't inherit this money

this is all from the ground

i didn't up not one time in fact uh when

our parents when when my parents died uh i was fortunate enough because of you they actually pay for females um

we came from a different account and uh if we can do it or anyone can do it well way to go i'm very proud of you excellent job i just removed his laughter when you said so you you didn't inherit this from the ground up and he just laughed a laugh of that sort of knowledge that's absurd yeah of no and he was reminiscing

the journey while he chuckled you gotta love that yeah i mean you really have to be out of touch with life and have your head stuck up some kind of twisted ideology to think that people build wealth by inheritance because it is such a small percentage of wealthy people that did not do it themselves um i mean of all the 10 000 millionaires we studied we found well in excess of 90 percent

inherited either not enough nothing

or not enough to have made the millionaires they got 5 000 inheritance or something like that uh it's about 93 percent of millionaires in america wow our millionaires because of their

own saving yeah and so

and like he said you come from a neighborhood where you end up having to pay for your own mom and dad's funeral and uh so i mean that's not exactly

uh privileged no not in terms of a

racial thing but in terms of a an economic thing yeah nothing handed to them they they earned it you know there was also high percentage uh and i wish i knew it my brain's a little little slow on it you may know it high percentage of those everyday millionaires also loved their work 68 68

thank you as opposed to 68 of the public hate their work yeah that's exactly what it is 80 internationally and so what that says to me is is that when you when you enjoy your work and you find meaning in it you'll work a little harder because you enjoy it you'll go a little harder to make more money not only harder but you just tend to be better well you do better there's no question your performance is better no question yeah and so you make more money yeah you get promoted you make more money you invest wisely and you're 52 years of age and he's self-insured yeah is what the answer is a 52-year-old millionaire 1.4 million 52 is young dave well that our average was 51.

wow in the study that that's when they got there now he's been a millionaire a while he was a millionaire several years ago already because he's at a million four right now but um that's exactly what chris hogan found and and our team found when we did all the research and he published we published it in the book everyday millionaires and the white paper that you can even get uh at daveramsey.com if you want to read the whole thing but and it's not to uh sometimes i get accused of shaming people it's not shaming people it's quite the opposite it's saying anyone can do it that's right anyone can do it i'm so dumb i did it twice [Laughter] see that gives you that authority though hey i've done it twice i was a millionaire by the time i was 26 and i lost it all because it was stupid hey one of the most staggering uh pieces of data from that study i remember when chris first shader team about fell out of the chair but i was so excited to hear that i think the third largest group were teachers now i know for a fact that the median salary in the united states for teachers is 60 000.

in america and so so here's what teachers do teachers believe in processes and they steadily invest and steadily

invest and if you put 15

of your income away and you make fifty thousand dollars a year you'll have five million dollars at retirement not one you know but you can't put fifteen percent away because you're driving a car you can't afford you got a boat in the backyard they cost you five hundred dollars a minute

for with the use that you actually get out of it considering the insurance the depreciation and the payments you're paying on it um

i'll going to boat people in the middle of winter yeah there you go i was thinking about a boat now dave just completely flashed up no no boat for me this year

it's true though but it's doable that's the point it's doable it's very doable very doable this is the ramsey show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today let's get real for a minute some of you are getting close to baby step four and you're freaking out because you know you need to save 15 of your income for retirement you have no idea how to start investing it's all brand new to you it's okay a lot of people got questions it's brand new you got to have somebody help

you with it you have somebody to walk with you you need a pro like a smart investor pro they can answer all the questions that you have in plain english they do not sound like people in the industry sometimes sound like charlie brown's teacher like wawa you don't even know who charlie brown's teacher is i do yeah because you know when it comes to investing you need to know what

you are investing in you need to understand you need to sit down and work with a smart investor pro that has the heart of a teacher and they're going to teach you what's going on so never again do you need to sit around freaking out take your time learn learn learn

learn learn invest based on that if you want to get ready it's time to do it time to start investing text the word invest

seven 233 nine text invest two three

three seven eight nine

reagan is with us in california i'm

sorry cleveland ohio hi reagan how are you hi dave hi ken how are you guys better than i deserve what's up so i've got a question for you uh i'm 24 right now and i'm actually on my trial period of ramsey ramsay plus i'm working on getting all my finances in order where they need to be um i'm on i guess baby step two i'm finishing up grad school one day

and i just accepted a job offer that starts on march 1st my question is i'm getting engaged in about a week and a half congratulations yeah thank you and i'm curious who i

should put as the beneficiary of a term life and uh term life insurance policy i'm about to take one out about after i get engaged and i know you're a big proponent of keeping finances separate until marriage i was just wondering should i quit her as a beneficiary

i wouldn't i mean

unless you have a child with her do you no sir no sir okay then no i mean i i would not put

her i would change it to her name as soon as you get home from the honeymoon or the week before marriage or whatever something like that but um i i suspect you're going to be engaged a little while and you're probably not going to get married two weeks later right yes sir i think that um we're shooting for something like january of 2022. yeah i i would just put so i don't

even know that you yeah you can go and get some term insurance if you want to but you know and truthfully changing the beneficiary on your term life insurance is not that big a deal it's not that hard to do it's a one-page form if you do it analog if you do it digital it's no big deal at all uh but yeah i i would not i would name a

you know like your parents or somebody like that as a beneficiary right now and then after you're married i would change it you're right i'm a big proponent of keeping it separate and the opposite is true for those of you out there when you do get married you do need to change it ken we had a call um

i think it was hogan me on the air a couple of weeks ago that uh the couple had been married seven years and he died and he had never changed his beneficiaries and his dad got all his 401k got all his life

insurance and he had three kids they've been

married seven years and he'd never gone in and changed it so me and hogan had a bit of a rant there on get your dadgum stuff changed

it's the opposite in the spectrum of this guy but yeah you know you you get married you need to sit down and go through the paperwork and be a grown-up and you know make sure your beneficiaries are all changed to your new spouse i've got a question for you and it's a true technical quote maybe it's too small so help me um why wouldn't he the day before a couple of days before the wedding go ahead and get it changed then yeah in case something that'd be fine awful which you don't want to think

you know week before week after but not not not no not a year not a year ahead because too many things happen too many things can go on and then you know it's um

you know i'm not even sure you need life insurance until you get married that's true in this case yeah so i mean if you were a single guy out there i i'm that might be the answer it might be that you wait yeah i was wondering what what's the what's the benefit now if there's a benefit of this new job that's termed life insurance and they're providing

it here it's going to name a beneficiary then that's a different thing right but i thought he said he was purchasing he did say that and i was wondering why why would a single guy need to get done insurance doesn't okay yeah you don't um if you're single and you have a little bit of money in the bank to bury you if something happened to you um

then i really yeah outside of that that's the only one you don't need a bunch of life insurance at that stage of the game he's just a responsible young man he's very excited he's just got his first job congratulations he's getting engaged he just is trying to check boxes off he's doing the right thing he is she's being smart about all that so good stuff brad's with us in wisconsin appleton to be precise hi brad how are

you good dave uh pleasure to talk to you first time uh call or long time listener well thank you how can we help well quick question i'm 53 years old my wife is 51 we are everyday millionaires thanks to you and your guys and your program great um but i do have one small debt uh

that it wasn't about death my whole mortgage just slow forty five thousand that has eaten me i want that gone um we do have uh to each have a variable

life insurance policy which cash value is about 35 000 in there

would you recommend taking that out and just throwing it at the mortgage and leaving you with ten thousand dollars left piano yeah yeah what's your hand what's your you don't have ten thousand dollars laying around in an account somewhere well yeah you do yes

yeah so let's just pay it off i mean i don't wanna just you know come up short but but the answer is yeah i would pay off your mortgage and yes i would cash out variable life insurance now if you do need term life insurance you would need to get that in place first now you said you're everyday millionaires are you in a position that if something happened to

you without any life insurance that she would be okay yes she's a teacher she makes about sixty thousand dollars and we have no other debt available you know we have no other debt i make plenty to to cover that person as well so and you have substantial investments it sounds like uh about eight hundred and twenty thousand dollars i believe in in ten investments yes okay now

and so that money could be invested and create an income to replace your income if something happened to you yes okay then you know if you if you consider yourself self-insured then you don't need you know and it sounds like you are uh if the kids are grown and gone and mortgages paid off i mean you're in great shape so yeah i'm gonna i'm cashing that puppy out it's a horrible place to have money

and the little tiny mortgage is a horrible thing so let's just get rid of a bunch of horrible things one conversation and a celebration you can tell it's really nagging at him touchdown i don't know if he caught that go like you can pay that off today yeah dave said you're free coach yeah you probably got 45 000 in one of those other accounts you could just write a checklist yeah

and pay it off it's not in a retirement account and then just replenish it with this now don't if if you only have 45 000 cash to your name anywhere then don't do that but i suspect that you know i'm hearing i'm hearing lots of zeros in this discussion so i think you're okay open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five aaron is with us in louisville kentucky hi erin how are

you i'm doing great how about yourself better than we deserve how can we help

so i probably geared more towards mr coleman um i am at currently the job that i'm at

isn't a bad job i just don't really make a whole lot of money but it is pretty secure you know um when

everything was shut down or whatever i still had my job and it was considered it's quote unquote central whatever sure but i have to really work a lot of hours to really make any

halfway decent money and so i just don't want to do that forever i'd like to start pursuing trying to find something better but i'll just be honest i'm fearful that

you know as soon as i go out get something something crazy happens they shut down again and then i can't work whatever job that

i'm getting let me let me set you free i get that we'll come back to you after this correct we can get to that okay we're gonna come back to you after this break i'm gonna put you on hold yes and bring you back around aaron uh because we've i want to give you a good solid answer and let ken spend a minute with you right here this is the ramsey show

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welcome back to the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with aaron in louisville kentucky and uh ken i'll let you pick it up yeah so aaron uh where we left off we went to the break you're in a situation where you've got a good stable job but for you to make any decent money you're having to work some crazy hours and your concern is

if you go take something else and do something else which is what i heard you say you want to do you're worried that if things go bad you're going to be stuck and you'll have left a stable job so there's some fear there did i about capture that did the the nail or the hammer on the nail okay great so let's just talk about what you want to go do what is

it that you want to go do describe that type of work

well i mean i mean if i could pick anything i mean i would try to grow a couple of my photography business but as far as just to go enter another job i mean no hold on hold on i love this hold on i love this let's talk about the plan to go do what you really want to do which is photography so is that tell me about that is that weddings all types of family photography what is that what does that look like uh

i mean currently that looks like anything that i can take a photo of honestly i mean right i mean weddings is you make there is really good money in weddings you do you know portraits uh well enough you know there's decent nightmare as well so my the reason i ask that is that the type of photography that you want to do um i i don't really have anything specific

you know that i want to do in that i just want to take photos i guess okay all right so so here's what we wanted okay that's okay so what i want you to do i've got a quick homework assignment for you over the next couple days i want you to begin to make a list of the type of photography that you most love to look at what what moves

you when you see photos what kind of photos is it photos of cars classic cars is it photos of sunsets i don't care what it is but i think you got to get in tune with this is the kind of photography that i get inspired by that i like to consume make a list of people who are doing that begin to look into that and do some research into what that looks like how

you can get paid what those rates look like just become a student of that future because that's what you want to do now let's move to a better day job what do you think from a talent standpoint that you could go do in your area louisville kentucky uh and put yourself in a much better paid situation what would you look at just another day job that's more stable what are

you thinking you know

honestly i don't know i i i you know

what i was thinking about was just trying just hitting the streets and just trying to see who's offering jobs and you know what what hours they're offering and i mean i'd like to be in somewhere

that's somewhat kind of like what i as far as hours go what i do now as far as like i i start work real early in the morning and and there's the potential of getting off at a decent time during the day where i still have time to spend with my family but you know like i said i'll go to do even do that i just don't make enough money

but sure okay so here's the deal something that paid better that had those kind of hours all right so here's what i want you to do i want you to think about what you do best just your basic talents that you can that you can take to the marketplace and you're good at your job now correct yes sir what do you do i'm a

mailman i don't work directly for the post office i work for a contractor that can correct myself so let's look at other jobs let's just start looking in louisville kentucky right now with jobs where you can be in a car you can set your own schedule certainly that early morning because you've got a nice rhythm there let's look where i can make some money driving whether that's a delivery truck

you know for you've got your national companies you've got local companies you've got food delivery just start looking to anybody out there that's looking for a very dependable driver delivery maybe some logistics work maybe in a warehouse you've just got to say hey here's what i bring to the table i'm dependable i can do this and you start looking out there and saying these are the jobs that are out

there and this is what they pay they pay more than i'm being that i'm being paid now and i don't have to work as many hours this is just a simple research play turning over rocks and find it now i want to address your fear unless you're applying for something that is some brand new company some startup that has no history you have enough common sense i trust

you aaron to be able to determine whether or not this is a risky move and it's not a risky move because the reality is the type of work you're doing and the type of work you can do you don't need to worry about it disappearing you just can't live life that way just move forward go get a better paying job that you don't have to work these crazy hours

and for the amount of hours you're working maybe you get two jobs hey aaron is this safe to say your job sucks

well yeah it's safe to say that

and it's steady so it steadily sucks right yeah steady's not all it steadily sucks i guess the thing dude dude say that i mean really you need to hear that and let me just tell you if you keep doing what you've been doing you're gonna keep getting what you've been getting yeah so it is time to do something different i don't know you can change your day job

you can start the car the photo thing on the side definitely do let's let's do something yeah because because right now we got sucks on steady yeah and by the way if something good falls apart sucks still there you can go back to it there's nothing to be afraid of here there's nothing to be afraid of well i mean yeah i'm afraid that you continue to do what you're doing that's what i'm afraid oh

i like that that's exactly right but here's the thing here's the thing there there is no

security no none except your own ability

that's right and you're not even using your own ability here you you know you're just you you've got an entry-level base yeah job that sucks

and you know and so you're not even you you're really not losing anything if you lost this because you know if you can develop a skill

you're always going to be employed at that skill yep because you know that you're you're only as secure as your ability to go land something else and you if you apparently if you're breathing you can land this job that's right but see here's where his fear is coming from his fear is coming from he simply doesn't know he hasn't done the research to see all the different types of jobs

once we see one job two job three job four job five jobs seven jobs you go wait a second oh i can do those now i'm not so afraid but it's that we talked about this before people would would rather deal with the misery than the uncomfortableness and so he just needs that nudge go the devil we know go find it and then

do it yeah it's just here here's the thing it's you're stuck and you got to get unstuck

yeah i mean but you've dug your own ditch here this is you're you know you know what a rut is it's exactly to say it's a grave with both ends kicked out that's exactly right nobody says it better than that that's what it is and by the way this is a rut of your own doing yeah so change it yeah today if you keep

doing if you do nothing that ken just told you to do and a year from now you're still doing that yeah it's your fault that's right your fault let's start let me tell you you're being paid about half of what you're probably worth oh absolutely he's driving a mail truck

i'm looking for a local company that does a lot of deliveries they've got manufacturing auto parts i'm looking forward to feeling doing uber eats he could double his income oh for sure by the way let's talk about the security thing because you just mentioned it made me think about this i get this call it's a false thing total i get this call a lot on the ken coleman show

you ready for this hey ken having made payroll as a small business guy and the first 10 years of this business the people were on my payroll i'm scared i'm scratching trying to make sure i got the money to make payroll on friday and they thought they had a secure job yeah if you've ever made payroll you know nobody is secure that's right that's right we get

this call a lot uh ken i'm on a contract right now and my contract's coming up and i just i feel like i got to move into something with a more stable salary they think salary versus contract and the reality is you could be a salary employee and get fired let go furlough just ask the pandemic yeah so just because you have a salary position doesn't mean that you're immune to having your job removed from

you well i mean here's an idea if you're self-employed and you have your own photography company every day you get up you leave the cave you kill something and you drag it home that's called security there you go that's where security comes from yeah and i remember i was making you know serious money the first time i ever got up close to seven figures and uh my sweet granny who uh

my grandpa worked for one company for 38 years never changed because he lost everything in the depression and he was so thankful for the job that he never left of course never left and uh that that generation did that this generation these last generations don't including mine but i mean i'm making serious bank owning my own business and my sweet granny would say now honey when you gonna get a real job wow

she still want me to get secure yes you know and she's sweet as she could be god rest her soul yes but she wanted me to be secure and i was making more yeah you know it was you know just but

you know self-employed get up leave the cave kill something drag it home man and you you got to change it aaron you got to change it man just because it's steady it just steadily sucks change it [Music]

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so [Music]

so our scripture of the day first peter 1 13 therefore preparing your minds for action and being sober minded set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of jesus christ

john f kennedy said there are risks and costs to action but they are far less than

doing the long range risks of than the than the long

range risks of comfortable inaction yeah exactly what we were just

talking about i've been talking a lot about that yeah so that's for our last caller there are risks and costs to action but they are far less than the long range risks of comfortable in action the way i like

to say it is would you rather get to the end of your life and reminisce or would you have to regret or regret yeah it's a nasty taste in the back of your mouth

dawn is with us in asheville north carolina hey don what's up

hi dave can you hear me yes

oh good thank you so much for taking my call it's a blessing to talk to you uh i have a friend who is dealing with the offer of a lump

sum settlement and i know you're gonna say to take it but she and i have run the numbers and i can't figure out why she should take it

okay a lump sum settlement on a lawsuit

no no um she her husband was disabled

and died and she gets monthly payments from the state of new york and they have offered now that her youngest child is no longer a minor they've offered to pay out a lump sum instead of

continuing to send her uh the money every month okay and how much was the lump sum okay the lump sum is

000 and how much are her payments she's receiving she's 61 years old and she gets 2 000 a

month uh tax free okay so she's getting 24 000

and she gets 225 and when she dies the

payments stop right that's correct

and when she dies if she has 225 000 in the account that goes to her heirs correct

yes sir did you have that number in your mind it's a 225 000. there's a 225 000

swing at death yes

0 or 225 000 at death and if you invest

225 000 well she will make almost as much

or as much as she's making now although it will be taxable

okay so she made 10 to be 22 000 a year that's 29 24 000 a year but i mean if you invest it well she'd be able to get 24 000 a year out of it

and uh and there'd be money left at death

okay so the my own

when i ran the numbers because the state says they use 87 as their life expectancy and when i ran the numbers it was like 647 000. that's not how the numbers

work okay the numbers work on what is your monthly income off of the lump sum and the lump sum

survives death it's not a total dollar because you're you're looking at how much i need to use the lump sum for her to get as much income as she would have gotten otherwise and in this case it's very you are right it is very unusual in that she might actually make less per month if she takes the lump sum and invests it even invests it well so what i'd recommend you do is sit with her with a smartvestor pro and have someone actually map out some real investments and not just deal with theory here on the air and let's consider then what she could really do but the big difference here is upon death there's not going to be a big difference while she's alive because it's not like they're paying her like it's seven percent and she could make 12 or make 10.

on some real investments you can run what's called a hypothetical on a mutual fund portfolio and you say if we bought these four mutual funds and we had owned them for the last 20 years what would they have turned out to be and what would that what kind of income would they have created and that's called a hypothetical analysis and it is using the history but to project

the future which you can't technically do you know you remember that you know a stupid butt line they use that the feds make everybody use in the investment world is you know past history is not indicative of the future of course it is right that's just stupid

jared is in colorado springs hey jared how are you i'm doing well good afternoon dave and ken how are you guys great man how can we help well we have a rental um and i

am contemplating selling it it's actually my wife's old house before we got married but

um i think it might be a peak time to

sell in colorado and i'm afraid of what the market's going to do it's been a really consistent rental for the past six years um what are your thoughts on selling to in order to pay off our home mortgage not a bad idea

uh the i would not use the fact that i think that the real estate market is going to go down in colorado springs is my reason because i don't think that's true

okay okay colorado springs is a vibrant

awesome market it's got that proximity to denver and denver's nuts on real estate prices and so

it's a wonderful town i mean colorado springs is an incredible place to live work own real estate everything and so i i don't think you're going to see prices go down there in the future but

if you're done with rentals you've had a nice run and you'd like to use that money to pay off your mortgage you'd love the idea of being completely debt free hey dave ramsey not going to argue with you on that dude laura is with us laura's in new york city hi laura welcome to the dave ramsey show hi thank you for having me sure how can we help well i am a licensed massage therapist

and a dancer and i'm wondering if i should

change professions my parents think i

should go back to school because the job mark is hard with the things that i do and you're a licensed therapist and a dancer yes are you a professional dancer as in broadway i'm a professional dancer i have not done broadway okay um have you made a living doing that or have you made your living as a therapist i have currently been making

my living as a licensed massage therapist okay okay but it doesn't sound like you

want to go back to school sounds like mom and dad think you should go back to school please don't live their dream yeah

yeah that's the problem actually i have been living or doing for a while that's also why i went into massage therapy what do you want to do what do you dreamed about you've dreamed about something anybody that's creative like you has had a dream you've got no problem with imagination what is it what do you want to do

i wouldn't do acting but i i mean i have been i've been auditioning i did get some

small like background okay so listen laura i want to set you free in order for you be an actor you got to stay in it this is a long game and i can't speak to your talent i'm assuming right now that you're not delusional that you actually have the talent to do it uh you've got to be a massage therapist or something else you've got to have a day job or two that gives

you the flexibility to audition that is simply the game we're in nashville we always say how do you get the next country music star's attention uh waiter order an appetizer yeah you

you're gonna have a plan that gives you the freedom to keep pursuing don't you give up there's always a chance to go back to something else but you need to walk through this and figure out what your long-term dream is has it shifted but don't live your mama's dream that's a bad plan right there that's not gonna even make her happy not gonna work out for you that puts us hour of

the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus [Music]

you

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## 200. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 11, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm john deloney joined

here by best-selling author ramsey personality and all-around good human being rachel cruz how are you doing great jon yeah family's good yeah we're good just surviving you know for real sort of thriving too it's sort of yeah it's almost the week can you sort of thrive it's almost the weekend thrive sounds like uh yeah i don't know if you can sort of drive thrive it is what it is we're there we're there very cool well we are taking your calls on life and money and relationships and all the

things that we can help you with rachel's really smart and i will help drive today so give us a shout at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to

carlos in tampa florida carlos what's going on hey how are you guys doing thank you for taking my call you bet man thanks for calling what's up so um i came from south america i remember my wife here in the united states we have a baby five months old now

and now we're trying to figure out what to do next when my plan was to get into a mortgage and get a house i came with no debt but my wife has an

80 000 in student loans and right now we have enough to pay it off i mean i'm talking about like 95 000 and the student loans is 80 000 but i'm

trying to figure out what if we should prioritize that instead of

thinking about getting into a mortgage and i'm just getting trying to get that advice from you guys carlos you're a stud man how did you guys accumulate 95 000. uh cyber security man i

t that made him my wife worked hard she said you said it like it was like a scam you were like cyber security bro we got it that's awesome man hey those

tech jobs they are they're paying she's an elementary school teacher as well so so that also helps that's awesome that's fantastic so great well carlos number one congrats on the baby i know your life has just been turned upside down in all the most wonderful ways so congrats so our rule of thumb here when we talk about buying a home is that we say we want you completely out of debt and a three to six months worth of an

emergency funds so your expenses that total three to six months have that saved in the bank and then save up for a down payment from

10 to 10 to 20 for that down payment

so those are that's the tactical the the what now the why behind all of that is that

you'll realize soon after you are in a home and own a home that a home home ownership is extremely expensive things happen i mean just the other day our gutters screwed up we had an ice storm in nashville and all of our gutters filled with eyes half of them fell off the house i mean it's just i need to get a new roof out of we got

it inspected high fived and then two months later we gotta get it well we went in the crawl space last weekend before a date and uh an inch of water in the car like i mean it's just stuff just happens when you own a home and it's expensive and so what ends up happening is a lot of people rush into home ownership because it's kind of the dream right like

you own a home and it's exciting and it's fun but you have no money you have debt and you have no money and people go in and end up that this house becomes

a burden and a curse rather than the blessing that it should be so carlos if i woke up in your shoes tomorrow i'd write a check for the student loans i get it i get it it's gonna hurt carlos it's not fun but listen but it is fun because at the other end of it though you have no payments you have nothing and then if you want to bump

the rest of that 15 grand up depending on your expenses save that and then save a little bit on the side you guys are killing it for a down payment then i would buy a home because i promise if you go this route even though it sounds just like this simple formula you will move into that home and when something comes up it's more like an inconvenience than a complete crisis

right one question i had out yeah

one question i had on that is should we be waiting or trying to wait for a loan forgiveness now that they're giving away some kind of forgiveness for teachers is that something i should be looking forward to well there's talk of student loan forgiveness from dc but pieces of it or yes but honestly here's the thing about the legislation all of that like it's not like the president of the united states can just wave a wand and it happens like there's a due process it has to go through to actually let

that happen and we don't know if it will when it will so in my mind carlos i don't want to i don't want to depend on washington dc to change my life or waiting on them to do things i i'm gonna control what i can control and right now you can control a lot like you yourself without dc can do a lot for your family and not to get too political

but they promise stuff i mean if you remember 10 12 years ago they said if you went to school and took out loans they would forgive those loans if you worked in a certain sector now so it's not happening carlos i had a ringside seat watching some of the most brilliant minds combined with some of the most extraordinary young men and women who went to law school

and i was an administrator to law school and many of them chose to go into the public sector to help the least of these in our communities because of the public forgiveness program and

then it was year six year seven after practicing when suddenly they would apply to have these loans forgiven and they were either it just completely ignored or rejected right right and here's the other part carlos and this is just me i'm a guy who signed up for a bunch of loans i got a i got we got too many degrees in our house between me and my wife

we signed up for a bunch of loans we didn't know what we were doing but we we did we saw the numbers they just weren't real and we something like oh that's a problem for a future don to handle i have a integrity i've got an ethical issue in

my soul i told somebody i'm gonna pay you back if you help me get through school you guys carlos y'all are of means y'all figured it out y'all have worked really hard and you've got this money here for me it's a matter of you know we can we don't need to wait on the government we're not going to wait on the government they may or may not who knows

and it's going to come with strings you got to have um you know public service all this other stuff you guys have worked hard you told somebody hey if you give us this money we're going to pay you back pay him back pay him back and then be done with it wipe your hands of it you'll have in a few months you'll save up that emergency fund

and then it's off to the races i think that's a great point too and i mean just to applaud you carlos i mean you guys are killed i mean he's from what do you say costa rica from yeah uh south america south america yeah i mean came in killed it i mean you're i mean you're doing amazing carlos and you guys can do this you can do

it the numbers are here and you're only going to go up from here that's the exciting part is like you said you have to meet like it's there because because you did what was right you know what's right like yeah so i hope that helps carlos and um probably more important than that call is this um you mentioned in that last call right before a date

y'all are hanging out in the crawl space i have to i have to explore this with you we can go here it's not that interesting no winston my dates are different me and sheila's dates are different we don't start in the attic winston has a crawl space that's like his man room like down under the house like where his tool bench is like the the shock in

the crawl space well they say cross-sites you can stand up in it so i guess it's time to stay in space the stance space the biggest traps down there no no it's not a basement because it doesn't have heating and air and all of that like it's anyways it's not that interesting anyways he went down to check on a mousetrap if you really want to know cause

there were mice down there and he was going to get seattle's mouth stripping inch of water inch of water so we gotta go get a lovely learning about my friends marriages because you're so different our reservations are in 30 minutes he's like i gotta go get a pump and i was like sounds like the beginning of a classic rom-com to me this is a classic rom-com hey

we got a date hey everybody let's head down to the crawl space it's called i i don't know

money and relationship triple 825-5225

give us a shout and we will walk along with you glad you're with us this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show i'm john deloney joined here by best-selling author and good friend rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on life and money triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five the board's lit up and kelly's waiting for your call let's go to adam in syracuse new york adam what's going on oh no not much dr dean just come back from work calm

because i was wondering how to get my wife on board with everything that dave says you know i've been doing the program since late january and i got about

40 000 dollars in debt

not including her vehicle with her vehicle it'd be about 55.

and i just want to change my family tree and be able to purchase our first home by next year oh man well i appreciate your heart dude and congratulations on turning this first corner here rachel you've heard this question for years and years talking with couples yeah so adam what's her biggest hesitation what what causes her not to want to get on board

um well she works full-time as a nurse

at the va and she's also going to school

for her rn and i think she's really focused on that which i'm super proud of her for but i i

really don't know her hesitation she when i first mentioned dave to her she got out online read some negative reviews

for all of us i'm like believe what you

want to believe i go this guy is making absolute sense to me and i'm with it it's just hard to do it

by yourself yeah you're right it's almost impossible to do it by yourself if two of you are not on the same page okay so what i so it doesn't sound like she is because i talked to some people in the spouse is like oh i don't want to budget because i just want to have fun and not be accountable or some people say i just want to continue to do what

i do because i i deserve it you know i mean like there's kind of some entitlement issues that i hear a lot but i don't hear that from her i just hear that she's skeptical of the process so

i mean she she's the saver and i'm the spender and yeah um i'm i limit myself on

everything now so well i was going to ask i mean i just so i wonder if it just sounds like a really big thing to to to

bite off for her because she has all these other things she's doing and she's thinking oh this thing is going to take over but what you both have to understand is that yes when we say work as a married couple you definitely work together but one of you naturally is probably going to do more and be more excited than the other like winston he's the nerd in our relationship like he's

the one that honestly does the excel he we do every dollar for a monthly but he has an excel thing to map out the future he always wants to talk he you know he'll want to talk about it i'm the one that's like uh i kind of want to watch the bachelor like i don't like you know that doesn't mean i'm not on board but i'm not as excited as

he is or he's the one that pays all of our bills he he does it all even though i know what's being paid and we're on the same page so so for her she just you just need her to

you guys come together and agree hey we want to start this process but the heavy lifting of the tactical day-to-day can honestly come from you adam and that that's okay from from our perspective adam how did you bring it up to um

you know we were laying in bed one night talking yeah that's your problem right stop are you serious awesome okay so it's great you're laying in bed you roll over and you flutter your eyelashes at her and she flutters alice's back at you and you say baby have i got a deal for you is that how that went yeah kind of come on man you got to be

more smooth than that how long have you been married eleven eleven years been together yeah eleven years oh adam man okay so a couple things that

you said that i want to make sure are you a schemer have you always had some things do you always are you the guy who brings good ideas she's a saver she's a nurse she's working in hospital like she's she's predictable making it happen yeah are you the guy with like hey listen yeah

yeah i think i am so you

when you first called you talked about her car payment your debt and so what i would tell you is you guys have a pronoun problem and what i mean is if you have a you

and a her in a marriage and then the you is coming to the uh oh i'm sorry you're not here y'all are just together okay you all been together for 11 years yeah we have two children together and we've been together for 11 years ah okay so if you haven't committed right if y'all

are just riding this out together as a in a committed relationship why aren't y'all married can i ask yeah you can ask um i i think she's afraid of commitment

is she afraid she's with you for a decade brother sounds like she's afraid of you [Laughter] that could be like a very well could be adam you know the truth is is that is that real is that real uh

honestly i don't know but you're probably right on the money so here's what i would suggest brother i would suggest sitting down with her and talking about what's the future going to look like when you have two kids when you're not married when you've been together for a decade suddenly the days turn into weeks and the weeks turn into months and suddenly you've been together three years

and five years and we'll think about this later and suddenly the future starts to happen in front of you and that's when one of you peels off to go back to school to start trying to create their own future because we're clearly not on the same page i've got mine you've got yours i'm gonna go make some more money for me so i can get a different car for me

and suddenly you're gonna wake up and you're both gonna be sitting on a couch and you're gonna be two inches apart from each other you're gonna be 2000 miles away from one another and coming in with something like this program which is we've got to work super close together not close together we have to be one on this deal because it's hard and it is back and forth

and months on top of months and suddenly you wake up and you're a united couple and you're two or three years down the road and you have this entire new trajectory so when you talk about want to change your family tree right now you got two plants in the same house so at first you got to do is you got to decide we're going to have one tree we're going to do

this one thing together and we're going to raise these kids in a certain way we're going to build a future together and a part of building the future together rachel is we're going to do money together right so your heart is right adam your spirit is right your ideas are right but they're just out of order right now and the first thing you got to do is to circle back to

this extraordinary woman you've you've you've created a life with for the last decade plus and say hey let's make this a unified thing moving forward right for sure and the richness that comes from that so not just the commitment to say we're gonna get married not just the commitment that we're going to work together through money not just the commitment that we're going to do parenting together well like that whole life that you're bringing together it's almost like all

these separate puzzle pieces and you start to bring it together and it is a beautiful thing while i feel like people it's dog marriage it's stable right yes there's something about it that the richness of your life it increases because there's a level of vulnerability and um unity that you've never experienced before to say hey we're going to be in this together and it's it's something that

i feel like is it it it enhances your life

and it's something about there's something about being tethered in being anchored in not even knowing that yeah yeah and i'm gonna fall off this mountain sometimes but i'm not gonna die right i may bang up the side of it but i'm anchored into something yeah and somebody may shove me off she may shove me off but we are anchored in here right and so yeah it's circling back to we got to be on the same page working to gather

how hard is it so you guys how long you all been married 11 11 years okay there's a myth that

all of a sudden you wake up when then you figured it out and there's no more discussions no more eye rolls no more whatever when it comes to budgets right that's not true right no

no i mean i think the logistical side of the budget goes pretty quick like the budget meeting quote-unquote like we'll talk when we do it and it sounds like oh of course she does but we really really do yeah before the month begins we sit down we're like hey let's look at march okay well we're going to the beach this week on spring break we're going to do

this and this and you start kind of mapping out and we and so all of that takes eight to ten minutes like we do that fast but it's the other parts of knowing being known by each other in a deep way because money is it's it reveals a lot of who you are and so working that

closely with your spouse yeah can create some moments where like oh i mean i'll be honest like i love amazon right now i know people hate amazon but i'm like i can't stop and and like and it's under his like he created the account years ago whenever we got prime and so we obviously just share the account but i know every time i buy something it's he gets a notification i'm always like even though it's in

the budget and i know it i'm the spender and he's the saver so even those things and i'm like hey just heads up i'm getting um a new pan because our

non-stick you know we really needed the house and we need it but it creates it just creates the conversation that's right which is what i love so so for those of you out there who are three years in five years in it does get easier it gets more routine but it always brings you back to a conversation that's right right that's right we had one at tractor supply this weekend me and my wife oh we'll hear about that we won't

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this is the ramsey show triple eight two five five two two five i'm john doloni joined here by rachel cruz and it looks like on the

debt-free stage we've got a beautiful couple we've got jared and stephanie from las cruces new mexico and i think i know what this means how are you two good folks we're doing great how are you guys doing today outstanding outstanding all right so tell us about las cruces las cruces is a wonderful community that is about uh 1400 miles away we drove all the way here you drove all

the way here how long does that take you uh it's 20 hours we broke it up in a couple days though it was his birthday on monday so this is his present for your debt-free scream to be your present i love it very cool and so you're here to do your debt-free screen how much have you paid off we paid off 140 466 dollars

140 466 dollars and how long did it take

you 15 months whoa did you sell a house

no no you just crushed it okay so

how much what was your income what was your rate of income during this time so we started at 188 403 and uh we

increased it to about 206 512. 200 6512.

are you are you the nerd i am linda i'm hearing all these very specific dollars i was like man i'd be rounding up good for you good for you so 188 to 206

that's still a lot of money to pay off in a year that means you are making an extraordinary income and you're still doing rice and beans right yeah that's right i mean we we both work in healthcare and uh i mean this last year there's all kinds of work to be done anyway so we just we're able to pick up shifts and work extra wherever that may be

i mean stephanie is a nurse in the icu so i mean she picked up an extra 12-hour shift for about 20 weeks i'd say wow thank you thank you for your work though i appreciate that so take us back 15 months what in the world happened so i'll take it back a couple years ago i mean about three years ago i was i'm a pharmacist and i was doing a pharmacy rotation through

the rural area parts of new mexico and uh one part of that was i got to stay with my uncle during one of those rotations and uh he was well into uh dave ramsey stuff and he uh kind of he knew that i had a large chunk of change to pay off without the salame loan and he's like you know have you ever really thought about what you're gonna do at that point

and i i really kind of brushed him by for that moment my uncle john and uh yeah you know i did i picked up his i picked up dave ramsey's book the total money makeover and uh about maybe six months after that and i was i was absolutely hooked right away man that book was fire man it was just incredible and uh so about of course um

of course about two years ago my my wife and i at that time were not quite married yet but i had mentioned her kind of the stuff that i've been reading into and i was kind of not wholly going into

paying off the debt because i mean i i was still learning what that was about and uh she she initially was not on page but

um we got married and we both put our bank accounts together and just were we're on fire from there you know so this sounds like the start of a joke a pharmacist sits down to explain something to a nurse right how did that conversation go where you rolled your eyes and you were like no um there was a little bit of eye rolling but we had a few road trips to albuquerque where

we listened to the dave ramsey show together and then i was kind of hooked after that um because i got to hear it for myself but right a couple days after i got married jaren took me to my bank and used all of our wedding gift money and we paid off my credit card so that was kind of my introduction to what our marriage was going to be like all that money that

we got from the wedding was just sent away and she just was like i can't believe it so

how does it feel now because you guys started marriage this whole new way of looking at my i mean you did it all at the same time so now you're on this side of it you've been married a little over a year you're debt-free it was just crazy it was a crazy time um we were dealing with the pandemic like everyone else trying to figure that out working working as a nurse through that was difficult um

and then we were trying to figure out budgeting for the first time figuring out marriage for the first time so it was a lot of firsts for us and it was difficult but um we definitely praise god for all the support that he's given us and this was all him that's all we that's what we wanted to say that's why she was working 12-hour shifts it's like i'm good i'll be out i'm going to go do

this so what kind of debt was this this was obviously pharmacy school is really expensive so student loans what else my student loan because i had gotten out of nursing school a while before that but i was just paying the minimum payments i thought i would never be out of debt that was my mindset until jaren kind of showed me that we could do something different so

and then a little credit card yeah just between yeah we'll see the wedding yeah just took over yeah that's awesome that's awesome so what i mean you guys what the beautiful thing about your story is that you're starting all of this together where we talked to some couples we just took a call last segment right and you're they're together but they're not working together and they've already created

these kind of money habits in their own lane so you guys started from the beginning so what encouragement do you have for couples that are dating maybe they're engaged to get on the same page like how important is it do you think to be one in the subject when you get married absolutely i mean you i could not have done this without stephanie you know this i mean

this this was all kind of something that i had brought to her attention but if it been just me and not her i mean there's always that wedge that's always going to be there and um and that that that is something that we didn't want for our marriage we wanted to go into our marriage knowing that um that we we don't have to worry about the money issue as an issue

if we kept our bank account separate it would have been a little bit more you know there's more of a chance of it to cause an issue or trouble i mean i mean you always you guys know the rates of divorce i mean yep that's not something that we wanted to be in our marriage and we know um we knew what um what

what yeah no no no it's right no you're exactly right and and two last question with marriage because i think we we did a thing money and marriage so this is always fascinating i love here talking to married couples about it because would you say your your marriage is stronger now than it would have been yes i i think that the the most important thing a part of this is i mean there's a whole grind that goes about being able to pay off this debt and um and i i've absolutely lean on

stephanie and a lot of the things that we were able to do but god oh my gosh like there's times that you know you're just watching your your paycheck go straight towards the government and it's i mean we're we're living on much we're living on much less than what even stephanie made and it it's hard it's incredibly hard it's just it's just sometimes like why why can't

we you know go out to eat like we used to that's something we really enjoy and um but i mean when you give it to god when you just absolutely just let him

help you handle your finances because we are his managers it's his money um it it does get you over that hill and it's just that extra boost and that extra stone to lean on

because he's just always there for you and i just want to add of course it just runs over into every other aspect of your life so i started um kind of budgeting with food because i you know overeating is an easy thing to do um and i was able to lose 20 pounds during this wow and then of course we started budging our time with god more like

we need to make sure that we're always spending time with god every day and so that's something that we do now too and we have grown closer to god to each other um becomes stronger people spiritually yeah it's amazing this finance has nothing to do with it but we've also grown spiritually because of our right decisions in one area

it does it trickles through that's awesome well i'm ready so we i can't wait i can't wait for y'all so paid off 140 466 dollars

in 15 months making between 188 thousand

to 206 000 a better marriage better health better spiritual life man they did it jared and stephanie when you're ready count it down let's hear it three two

one oh glory to god

[Applause] oh amazing amazing

i mean incredible can you imagine driving up to get your you know driving up to get your uh medication and your pharmacist drives up in an 85 camry and you think what are you doing and he says i'm changing everything man how cool is that doing it all and that's what i love too because you sometimes hear about these high-paying jobs and these high you know these high earners

and they're just living that they're living to the very top of what they make living in fantasy okay and and they said you know what we're gonna scale down for one year for a year for 15 months i mean it's pretty amazing 15 months and everything is different what a great couple yeah no more 12-hour shifts this is gonna be fun fun fun for them thank you for joining us

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this is the ramsey show i'm john delonie joined here with rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on money and life triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to mark in washington dc mark what's going on hey guys thanks for

taking my call i'm still fortunate to be able to talk to you and actually feel fortunate about the situation i'm in but uh first time in my life having a little bit of extra money is causing me some stress as well so it's not all uh roses there you go hey this is this is a good call to take so what's up man it's a good call uh here's the picture i'm 44 um hoping to retire at 60.

yeah just uh change jobs still in the same profession but what do you do man it's a better compensation i'm a surgeon okay so you don't mess around yeah uh you know i was hoping to get on the radio soon because i have a case at four o'clock but i have a small case i'm gonna be on time so it's okay you're actually you're replacing a knee as we talk man you're you're a talented guy so what's up um so anyway um yeah so um

the only debt i have med school and i've been reluctant to pay it down it's at 1.75 started at about 200 000 i got 120 left okay mortgage house is about 1.1 and uh down

to 550 on that refinance recently about 2.25 percent that's my only debt no credit cards no cars like that okay so you know recently i came across a bonus for work um for 2020 as the last

um couple mentioned you know 20 terrible

in general but for health care workers it did give us an opportunity to earn a little bit more sure so i i came across a work bonus um

about 169 000 and

where i'm struggling and i'm not trying to say i'm in a terrible situation but i have bouncing around in my head you know how much do i keep in the bank i've never started a 529 how much should i put in a 529 do i do a 457b dump it all into a

brokerage account do i look at long-term care so i'm in that position and i just sort of can't figure out what what to do you got it man well thank you so much number one in a you keep you keep using very passive language you just like we're walking on the street and stumbled into a bonus my guess is you worked your butt off in some really scary situations in a

you were there when people were hurting and you earned that bonus and i'm grateful for all the work you have done and i'm grateful for your wife holding things together while you've been um working like bananas this year so yeah you earned the bonus for sure um i have worked behind closed doors with doctors with their coaching folks through mental health challenges through relationship challenges and whatnot

and i'll tell you something that's always been a mystery to me is the love affair between a doctor a

medical practitioner and their student loans you guys

love them you love to hang on to them and pet them and sing to them as though y'all are in love and here's what i think it is i've got i've got one person that i i work with now whose kids are in college

still has his student loans right loves them deep in his heart right and i we i give him a hard time about it but it comes down i think to looking at this as a math problem instead of a psychology problem and so i if i'm you and rachel hop in here yeah sure i would take that 165 000 and i would pay off my med school before the day is over today

i'd pay it off i would be free from all of that and then i would start considering going down the rabbit hole getting my house paid off and then moving forward kids called yeah i was going to ask mark what what causes you do you relate to what john just said like what causes you to keep the 120 around yeah yeah so i mean it's just the leverage of

the 1.75 percent i i i have this challenge you know in my life to uh meet somebody that has a lower interest rate on their student debt yeah and i haven't come across that person yet you know i'm out of med school about 20 years 30-year loans but i just feel like i can beat that rate it doesn't weigh on me um you know having that having that burden

it really doesn't my wife's totally fine with it i just feel like i can beat that beat that rate yes so i think that's like you're saying

you're hitting on the math stuff and you don't feel like it's weighing on you and all that and you're in a great position so honestly you're not losing sleep at night over this thing you're not mathematically because it's a small percentage of everything you have but i would tell you mark if you paid it off today and you woke up tomorrow i guarantee you there is a level within

you spiritually emotionally all of it that just is gonna exhale just so just a little bit you may not even realize it because you've been hanging on to it for so long so what we teach is getting completely out

of debts first and foremost and so that would mean yes just going and paying it off just getting it out of the way you have cash in the bank you earlier in the call i wrote it down you have a hundred grand what was the hundred grand at the very beginning the call is that cash that you have i know you have seven hundred and we're talking about yeah your hundred dollars just sitting in a

you know savings rate yes that's great okay so i want you guys to get and see how much is six months worth of living of expenses for you guys you're in dc so it's probably going to be a little bit higher dollar amount than someone living in iowa figure it out what your lifestyle is and keep that so maybe it's that maybe it's a less a little more

i don't know so put that aside keep that just boring in a boring money market account boring savings account because that's going to be your liquid emergency fund if something happens then i would start to look at your kids college and their ages again are what 10 and 8 10 so i would set up yep

yes so you may not even qualify because of your income for an esa so you may want to look at a 529 plan and start putting some money away for their college i think would be the next best step to look at and then at the same time be funding retirement and throw an extra at that house and because you you have your house halfway paid off which is amazing

so i mean you haven't yeah like we said an incredible situation market i think you can make a lot of ground financially if you just stay focused you know you're doing a couple of things here and there it's kind of all over but if you just make these steps and you guys do them you're going to find progress financially so much faster i think than you have mark what kind of surgeon are

you i'm a cancer surgeon cancer surgeon wow and so is it are you at on the front end

or are you more in stage four acute care

um well you know actually both um as a cancer as a surgical oncologist um probably about sixty percent of the surgeries we do uh the final diagnosis is actually not cancer right so you know there's people that get referred to us so i'm on the front end but i'm also you know an everyday sort of sort of surgeon um working in the office working in the or so is there a up early on especially march of 2020 march april may um the the folks in in in my in my

sphere just my buddies and folks that i i am connected to man they they puckered up the elective surgeries overnight right and there were some folks that were really scratching their heads about man if we don't open up some of these low-level things the whole hospital system rolls over because so much of our income is based on come on in were you and was that your case too

so it's really interesting right so we shut down for six weeks in april and may the health system i work for health system um they announced they were losing publicly announced they were losing about a hundred million a month due to the elective surgery crisis so there were you know there were places crumbling sure and we were concerned about um obviously the health system the patients we take care of our own livelihoods um

but i don't know if you're seeing this in your sphere but what i have seen is now that now that people are home people want their elective surgeries because they don't fit this work so i did more surgeries in 2020 even

with shutting down for six weeks than i ever had done any other year in my career and that trend is continuing yes very cool so here here was where i was where i was aiming and it rebounded really well for you which is excellent the folks that i talked to on the front end of this deal really got scared

because they thought that that election that elective surgery world was over and here's what i'm getting at if you even if you have this low interest rate and yes man you can sit there and give me a spreadsheet and make the math work and as a surgical oncologist that's what you do in your head probably nobody knows risk like you do nobody can sit down and say here's probability here is i'm gonna be

the the i'm gonna walk into this room and i'm gonna make sure somebody stays alive to tomorrow that's an extraordinary uh power for lack of better terms but i want you to go back to if you've got no payments you've got no debt you've got no stress if elective surgery is shut off then you can be all about how do i help other people not how do

i keep from falling apart thank you so much mark for your service and for your care man we love you this has been the ramsay show thanks for joining us and we'll be back soon right here

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your money and your life

i am john deloney joined here by best-selling author and good human being rachel cruz and we are taking your calls on life and on money triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five rachel how are your little ones doing they're doing great just man

five three and one five three and one yes and i've got almost 11 and five

you space them out well i feel like i have a thousand people in my home and you have a million and a half oh it's there's a human everywhere a human everywhere and one's crying always but it's great you know it's great it is funny though like there's some days i'm sure every parent feels like this we were like man that was like a good like that was a good day

and then some days you think what did we do what are we doing what are we doing the random thing that my wife will say she'll walk through house and she'll just quietly toss away remember when we used to think we were busy i know remember we used to think we were tired remember that and she'll just keep walking through the next room it's so great i laugh all

the time though because i think i remember so specifically it's like so in my head i we had this this lady in college she like mentored a group of us and where we'd go to her house and we'd talk and we just like oh my god i'm so stressed elizabeth i have like three exams this week like i'm like yeah i have she had four kids i looked back

and i'm like her husband worked a lot like i'm like i just want to call her oh she probably thought you have no idea no idea you have no idea when i told my dad i called him and said hey listen you're gonna be a granddad

there was no fireworks there was no ah my son his response first response was well you're never gonna sleep again and i remember thinking like that was kind of deflating me that was the most prophetic thing i think my dad ever told me man well you have good kids though you all came over a few weekends ago and had dinner with us yeah hank i mean yeah yes they're both wonderful

but hank is just the sweet i mean talking to charles by our 16 month old boy oh he was like can i feed him when someone's taken out to bed he's like do you need help winston like oh yeah so listen in the car right before we came in your house we said listen so sweet to our two kids don't screw this up for us for every kind thing

you do we're gonna we're gonna give you froot loops and whatever sugar money yeah we're gonna pay you kids and my son was like dad let's just do it because it's right and my daughter was like sweet how much that's awesome all right let's go to the phones let's go to erica in houston what's up erica hi dr john and rachel i'm so grateful to be talking to y'all

and we're grateful that you called what's up well i have a what i would consider a good problem my business has been extremely busy lately i own a couple therapy private practice i can imagine so

exactly and um so i know

it's time for me to expand into adding some more therapists to come work for me that i would train under me and right now i have two interns um but i am still seeing about eighty percent of the the revenue comes from the services that i offer um so i've been having some trouble finding somebody to hire and now i've kind of uh i'll call myself out i've had some really bad boundaries i just started taking on more and more clients uh myself and i

find myself with low energy to be able to really do much else other than to see my clients and write my notes and supervise my interns and that's about it and so why do you why do you feel like you have to expand your business

sounds like you love counseling other people i do um i also love supervising

and i have another business i would like to start that would be uh separate and so i would like some energy and time to be able to give to that and not so much into the clinical work although i still like to maintain clinical work gotcha well i was going to point to you john cause you're you are in this world i mean yeah what i find with therapists is they

you get to a point where it's exhausting right erica you see clients eight hours a day and it's at weird hours and it's one of those things where if you stop and just like hey i'm gonna go home tonight and have dinner and watch a tv show there's that part in your brain that says well that was 100 bucks right you can always be working always moving

and then you the next conversation is what's passive income look like are we going to write a book and then you realize there's not a lot of money in books and i want to create a curriculum and i want to start work so you just start explaining so why do you want to expand things do you want more money do you want more um you want more reach

to help more people what's your goal here i think it's it's two of those things i do want more reach to help more people and be able to offer a variety of

services so that we can treat more people across the community and then

my other business is also focused on mental health so minimalism and mental health and i'm going to need some time and energy to be able to put into creating that content to be able to put that out into the world which would also help more people gotcha are you able to let other people do their job

under your umbrella differently than you do it but still effectively

yes i've been working on that because i did hire a virtual assistant um not too long ago and so i think that's given me some muscles in that although that is difficult for me and i would say to erica you can probably speak into this john because you're specific my brother-in-law he's a therapist and he's has a wait list all of that i mean like it's it's insane

but people come to see him not a practice necessarily right they want him so how much of your clientele erica would be okay to go see someone else like the percentage in that because i know that therapy it's such a personal thing right you you that people want to see you i know that's why you're so good um what

would it look like to bring on say those two interns but you make them full time do you think you'll still have the same amount of business do people will your clients feel comfortable going to someone else um we've

seen some trends in that so there's still obviously more people calling for me once they learn that they're that the other people are trained under me most clients are pretty open to that that's right that transfer of trust there yep perfect so here's what i'd recommend erica i i would recommend i just have experienced this with my buddies who are therapists they get so excited and then

they go to a training and it always comes at a time when they're exhausted from their day practice right they're just hearing the same married couple fights over and over and they know what they're doing and they're good at it in fact they're excellent at it they're getting the same calls and they go to a training and they experience something new and they're like i want to do

this with this group of people and i could crank out this business and i could hire these people and then you get a napkin somewhere in a restaurant and you map it out you realize oh we can make this much money and help this many people and then you start as as our friend ken coleman says you you jump off the dock before the boats all the way up right

and so i'm going to do two things one we're going to give you a copy of our friend christy wright's business boutique which is going to give you some actual it's going to help you walk through the steps of starting a new business right you know how to run a business you're running a successful one but right now the business is you and so how do you step away from

this business and then come up with how do i hire how do i train how do i do payroll how do i do hr how do i do training how to do marketing all these things while also keeping the practice going and the second thing is i want you to take some time to i don't

sound so cheesy i want you to take some time to dream and actually paint a picture of what this is gonna look like yeah right what would a a friday afternoon look like for you if your full your real business is running your supervision business is running you've got a group of counselors trained underneath you and then you're gonna have to reverse engineer that back and what do

you have to start doing right now to begin to build that practice and then you're gonna have to work on those boundaries and you probably have to see one of your buddies to help you with that one erica because that one's a challenge for all of us who love helping other people but i appreciate your question and houston needs more therapists i'm glad you're there don't give up on

it hang on the line and kelly will get you that book stay tuned this is the ramsay

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you know healthcare has gotten to be ridiculous it puts people um you know on the brink and so it would have put us on the brink had we not had chm chm saved our life

same problem financial lives christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance but it is a budget friendly option and the original health cost sharing ministry for christians learn more today and check us out at chministries.org that's chministries.org

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triple eight eight two five five two two five taking your calls on money and life here on the ramsey show let's go out to charlottesville virginia and talk to logan what's up logan how are you doing hey john hey rachel how you guys doing good good good what's up um so a little debate here between my fiance and i oh you're going to drag us into it huh don't be the typewriter so we're getting

married uh on may 30th so coming up pretty soon um and we recently started fpu

um we're feeling pretty good about it pretty gazelle intense between the two of us right now we're working seven jobs in in two weeks went from 11 grand in debt to 2 800. so way to go man working pretty hard with that yeah thank you um so

and i know this is a little farther down the line but one of our goals um is to purchase a house with cash um

within the next 10 years or so um however i was thinking about it and i think so what she wants to do is just save up after we get done with baby step three go into uh 3b and save up specifically for

the house however i think because of how

young we are i think it would be more beneficial to use that time to open up a roth i.r.a i'm going to max that out at 6 000 every year and then what's left over after investing into that um

put into either a money market or a mutual fund to save for a large down payment on the house because we're right now i'm i'm 19 and she's 20.

so the yield on that would be a lot bigger if we start earlier sure so the debate is save up and pay cash right away for the house or not right away it'll take years to save obviously or go ahead and take out a mortgage and continue on is that that's the debate right save up and pay cash well no either either way we wouldn't be we'd be purchasing the house at the same time it would just be do we want to spend these nine

ten years before we buy just

saving for the house or should we invest into retirement and then what's left over after investing every year put that into a savings for a large down payment on the house but you're saying down payment when you put it down payment you're taking out a mortgage though so it's not cash right right right i'm sorry not not not i thought you were saying by now but no would be

the same time but yes yes okay let me let me make sure i'm understanding this i'm sorry i so do you take let's say there's a hundred thousand dollars do you take 50 of that and start investing it now do you have a hundred thousand dollars though logan like i'm not making that up yes but i'm saying but once you get once you guys pay off your debt you're gonna save up for that emergency fund three to six months worth of expenses

then what we would suggest that you do if you want to buy a home then is to save up babysit 3b for a 10 to 20 down payment and then start investing i would not use baby step 3b to save cash and not invest

in a roth ira so i'm more on your side on it i would i would go ahead and keep putting money away now if you want to use it would be baby step three right baby step four is investing and if you wanted to say hey we wanna rent for six years and we're gonna save up and write a check for a house in six years while we invest you can totally do that i think that that's a great idea but i would not miss out on the investing to save up to pay cash for a house does that answer your question okay yes yeah i i wouldn't because because like you said you guys are you guys are young you have the time a mortgage is the one type of debt we won't yell at you for so if you did decide hey we are going to just do a down payment of 20 go ahead and do the 15-year fixed rate do the formula to buy a house the right way that's great you can do that but if you guys were kind of more on the quote-unquote weird side which we like weird people and say hey you know we're going to rent a small apartment we're going to live on nothing and we for for eight years we can save up x amount and pay cash for a house but we're going to do that that's awesome and you've never had a mortgage in your entire life that would be that would be great so either either one of those is totally is as great from our book yeah does that answer your question i'm sorry i know that was a long way around but okay no that's fine uh it does yeah thank you and logan um not to oversimplify this but you're 19 she's 20.

y'all feel like you're 100 years old right now and then when you turn 30 you're going to feel like man we're really young right now right and so it feels like you if you mess this decision up it's man you might as well you're not going to start over your marriage is going to be off to a sideways start you all are so far ahead of the average couple getting ready to get married yes

you just need to stop and pause for a second y'all are crushing you're gonna get married in a few months you're gonna be off to the races and go slow do it together right then

and rachel's right when you when you're 30 you're gonna love that you have a retirement account that you started when you were 20 21 years old you're also going to love you got a big chunk of a down payment or you all went ahead and rented for a few more years and just started your whole new family tree with no mortgage at all that's right that's going to be awesome all right

let's go to gary in arlington gary what is up hey what's going on doctor d rachel how you guys doing good good good what's going on in your world man yeah so uh i'm in pharmaceutical sales i'm 27 years old i've paid off about 40k already in student loan down nice way to go brother i'm pretty much debt-free but i got this car situation that i'm kind of hung up on

i have no idea what to really do so my parents guided me into this release of a rav4 um after i graduated

oh no gary dubalisia i think we just lost you gary oh there you are you back

oh yep i'm here guys okay all right so your parents talked you into elise the rav4 yep rav4

um paid off all the lease payments so now it's like do i save up this money i

got about 15k left i got about 4k in savings uh

i'm starting to build up my uh emergency funds but i'm just wondering like should i like build up and start saving to buy this car should i maybe take out a loan pay it off sell it take that equity that i have left and then maybe try to roll that into a car that's a little bit more affordable since i am going to burn this car into

the ground with how many miles i drive so i'm just wondering like what i should do with this car i feel like it's going to be a sunken cost if i don't like just keep on trying to like maybe save up for it like buy it so i was just wondering what you guys thought yeah and you the 15k is what was that you said at 15k

and what uh so the 15k is to buy the car to buy the car okay i hear you i hear you yep yep so the lease payments are done so i'm just like what do i do with this like i feel like i almost have a part of this car but it's like i would just kind of hate myself if i just like gave it up i would have to pay

the mileage overage that i'm currently accumulating with this job how much is that how much is the mileage over so i just passed it not too long ago with that so the cap was at 36 i'm at like 38 right now it's i think it's like 25 cents a mile for

21. for 2021 you've already passed the cap

oh no this is a 2018 rav4 no no but i'm asking you are you talking about for the year you've already passed your cap or for the the amount of the labor for the the arc of the lease so over the three years i was given 12k

mileage per year um and i've already passed that like i'm past the 36k that that's been allotted for the lease so you're out so the lease is the lease is the lease is done correct lease is done these payments are done i would i would need until the end of this year and that's when the lease is technically up and that's why i need to make a decision am

i buying this car am i going to turn it in yeah should i buy and sell it yeah if you don't if you uh gary if i were you if i didn't have the cash to go ahead and buy it whatever that if that if it's that 15 grand or less at the end of the year depending on the lease payments i wouldn't buy it i would

i would be done with it even though you kind of take the hit and then just start over chalk that up as a mistake and then go pay cash for another car because that's good okay how far cheaper than 15 grand what's your penalty gonna be do you know

uh well if i keep on driving it like the

that 25 cents a mile is just going to start cueing accruing that's just going to be ridiculous i think at the end of the year yeah so like that's why i'm trying to like kind of like what should i do with this car like do you guys think like taking out a loan and then like trying to sell it and then pay back the loan immediately once i sell the car and then do it no it's kind of like not like yeah no

i wouldn't advise that because the only time i would take out a loan is if you were upside down in the car not through a car lease but a car alone you're trying to pay the gap off and get out of that yeah so i i would get out of the lease as soon as possible gary if that's at the end of the year do it and

then just scratch it up to stupid tax that's what we call it around here and so you would pay that off and then go buy a car that's going to get you yeah that's going to let you use this car because you're going to run into the ground anyways you don't need a brand new one

hope that yep gary sorry that's an expensive whap upside the head huh yes

don't get a lease with a mileage cap if you're in a job that requires you to try to be a traveling salesman come on parents you got it gary you can do it though i believe in you because it's a good clap this is the ramsay show

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[Music] 825-5225 taking your calls on money and life let's go to justin in new york city justin what's going on

hi guys uh nice to speak with you um i've been listening to dave for a long time and i've been focusing on my family my wife and myself and our income and

getting our debts taken care of and such but it took me a while to realize that my in-laws have been failing on their own and i'm trying

to get them to move out of their home and downsize to a smaller house and having that conversation hasn't been going so well um and you know my brother-in-law's been giving them money to take care of the mortgage for a while and they just they can't afford the house they live in they do have equity in it and i'm trying to get them to sell and cash out

and then downsize i wanted to get your opinion on how to go about what's there reasoning justin to stay in the home that they can't afford and they're having to take money from their son to pay their money i'm not i don't i

don't quite understand all of it but it's it's you know they've been the house for 25 years okay they've come to live in that lifestyle and downsizing just i guess and they think

they'll be looked down upon i guess it's a hurt to their ego it's like a kind of a little bit of an evil it's correct not enough of an ego hit that they're going to take money from their children to cert keep this mirage that's what i've been saying yeah so this is going to be hard to hear i don't get it yeah and that's here's the thing there's nothing you can do man um you can i say nothing you can you can

force the bottom you can be a kind person you can have this one hard conversation where you are respectful and you treat them with dignity and you you take a more

curious route hey tell me about what what the plan is moving forward you're working on your legacy with their daughter and with whatever family you are going to have it can become a curiosity thing but man you can't walk in and make anybody do anything and as you know this isn't a math problem when grown people start taking money for their from their kids not for food but for a

fantasy man we have left the the

the cognitive reasoning area right

that that ship has sailed yeah absolutely i mean that that's it justin i mean it's kind of a it's a it's a hard answer to your question which is how do i convince my in-laws that they need to downsize you can't convince them i mean i think that you can be a place to say you you and your wife can choose not to enable that behavior so

if their son can't afford it gets to a point where he can't afford the house payment you guys can set a very clear boundary that we're not going to help you fund this lifestyle and we're we will not be that back up i mean there's things you know that you and your wife can have together to know this is how we're going to do our life in our marriage um versus how they're doing

it but yeah

there is no convincing unless they're asking questions and want to know so justin have you sat down with your brother-in-law and talked to him about his enabling of of their lifestyle yeah i've been having that conversation as recently and uh he gets it and he understands but i don't know if he's assertive enough to um you know

really go hard and cut them off to kind

of direct them in the direction they need to go well i think for you justin if there's one more thing you can do just for your own self and tell me you're the therapist over there but i mean for you because you and your wife i'm sure are concerned and you hate this for them because it's eating up their money they're having to take money for i mean it's just not it's not a good situation

so for you too because it's it's her parents it's not your parents so both of you or even just her to say

hey mom and dad and it's the last conversation we're gonna have about it but for myself i just need to say out loud i'm concerned about you guys i hate that this is where life has taken you and i just i see the writing on the wall and i feel

like you would have a better quality of life if this house wasn't sucking the life out of you and you're having you can't afford it so as your daughter that's what i see whether you choose to take that or not i just need to say that for myself and then that's it like i don't know yeah and at the end of the day anything you carry with

you justin and it's gonna be hard for you to hear is a choice to make your day worse is a choice to make your marriage have conflict in it because you can't do anything about that conflict like rachel said you and your wife can talk about how firm your boundaries are gonna be not if but when they come knocking on your door for money how firm your boundaries are gonna be

if and when they lose this house because they run out of money and they're gonna have to move in with you y'all can have those conversations now but man there's no sense in just beating your head against the wall it's not gonna change it's frustrating and parents don't rob your kids of their

legacy because you're living in a fantasy world don't do that to your children if it if you need money for food if you

need money for medical care yeah you call your family if you think wow we got this really big house and it's important to us because we feel don't do that to your legacy come on all right let's go to tj in nampa tj what's going on

all right afternoon rachel thanks for taking my call i appreciate it you got it man thanks for calling in what's up well well i just want i need a little bit further advice on uh what next to target on our debt snowball here got a genius sitting next to me so you called the right place brother so what's up well um wife and i of course uh didn't

uh do the smart things we were actually pretty dumb early on and took out a bunch of student loans going to college and after we both graduated we're done with school uh here we are we ended up with uh combined between the two of us we got

uh just over 100k in uh student loan debt we rised up after we had

shocker when there was a kind of a family event that happened and it forced us to move back in with my folks for about three years but during that time we paid off all of our unsecured debt other than

just the student loans and now we've finally started to climb back towards solvency and we we got the house that we've been in for about three years we just recently refinanced it to get it down to a fixed uh 20 year it was on a 30-year variable and we owe about 140 on it right now

payment on the house is just over 9 30 payment on the student loans right now most of them are ibr and the rest some total about 220 but that's not even enough to cover interest on the on the loan

and so your question tj is which one to pay off you're asking the student loan or the house right because we're to the point now our vehicles are paid off our credit cards are paid off we finally got smart and buckled down paid off about fourteen thousand dollars in credit card good for you guys thank you and then we also paid off both uh vehicles um but now we're just to the

point where we want to know what to tackle next um if we tackle the house it's not much

more as far as the the balance

but the the strain on the budget is much greater i hear that yeah it might help us to snowball the student

loans on the other hand the student loans the interest is killing us it's actually the balances have gone up this year over the last even with our payment yep i hear you well i'm going to stick to our rule of thumb which is paying off all of your debt at your house and so that student loan it's the last one and it's the hardest mathematically it's the hardest mentally

because it is a mountain to climb right you like you guys killed fourteen thousand dollars in credit card debt like yeah a hundred grand is a lot so is that hundred grand how many are there are there multiple loans within that number i'm assuming

yeah there's about uh eight to ten okay

so what i would do tj because there's almost a mental game to this we always talk to people about when you're paying off debt that you need that momentum right and you guys kind of felt that i could hear in your voice yeah we paid off fourteen thousand dollars in credit cards like you couldn't feel it so on a sheet of paper i i would i would map out

i would break out that hundred grand so instead of trying to tackle everest you kind of have these little these hills right that you're working towards and that's going to continue guys on so i i would for sure tackle the student loan debt and if you can break it up even just for your own sanity i feel like that that would be helpful as well when we had my wife

and i had six figures of student loans we this sounds so cheesy but we made little little chains yeah and they were of the little loans right and every time we got one every month we would tear one off and some months i would just sit there and we actually hug it in our bedroom how's that for that's real man heavy uh bedroom decor sheila was like thank

you john thanks man all i wanted no john you really just know how to doll up a room but it so much you sit there and see it and it just but you never forget it right and then it gets smaller smaller and yeah it's just biting that elephant one eating that elephant one bite at a time that's right oh man thanks for that call tj just keep plugging away little steps little steps little steps

you got this you got this you got this we'll be right back this is the ramsay

show [Music]

triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsay show i'm john deloney joined here with best-selling author rachel cruz taking your calls on life and money let's go to chilo in los angeles california chilo what's up

hello how are you doing today outstanding how are you good good i had a question i have um my daughter who's about to turn 19 uh this month um she has two thousand two thousand dollars put away and she actually had an investment i have no idea how to tell her how to invest it

um so i was wondering if i can get guided or some advice on how to help with that because i don't want to steer in the wrong direction what's her name her name

beautiful beautiful beautiful okay so

considering her age she's 19.

our advice usually for young people around this age is it's going to sound cheesy but it's just true the best investment is in themselves and so i think at a young age depending upon what's her education like is she gonna go to a four-year school is she going to university or is she going to the workforce she's not sure yet what she wants to do if she wants to go to school

if she wants to go to straight school she got really um um that's what i'm looking for she basically got when coveted hit it really rocked her she was supposed to graduate she wasn't able to walk her right yeah yeah so she's kind of like in a funk so

to speak right now yeah for sure um you know she's working um doing housekeeping um with her

uh mother's boyfriend and the two thousand dollars that she has she actually got it from uh that pandemic money that california was offering and so she hasn't touched it she said i don't want to touch it i don't know what to do with it but i know i want to invest it yeah so um right now you know schools are really going to be opening back up

so she doesn't know if she's going to be going to college or trade school just work full-time that's great well well i'll tell you my advice would be if she called me today i would say two grand

at her age and with the her seasons of

life changing so much right now that she doesn't really have a firm plan the best thing is just to keep it with cash and a really boring savings account or a money market account right now um because number one she may need that money if she chooses to go to school to help her with tuition she may need that money if she wants to go into the workforce

and get an apartment and start i mean two grand in the grand scheme of things right can can be a pretty good boost for that 19 year old so because when i when i think about investing investing for me is long term which means five years or more

and while it's great mathematically to start as young as possible again having that cash available during all these random transitions that she's going to be occurring in the next probably five years of her life having some cash to spare is a real is a huge blessing i mean that's huge so i would relay to her hey i wouldn't put it in the market right now even though what you're thinking about is so good like the fact she's even thinking about investing at 19 props to her you have a very smart daughter i was not but i yeah so yeah she's way different than dad for sure that's great and i think that's awesome and i would and encourage that in her like that she's so smart that's so good but i would have it available for me at 19 to use during this transition period and then once she's out of school or if she goes to trade school or she goes right into the workforce and she has a little bit of a steady um steady stream of a season of life that she sees and she says okay now i'm gonna work to see if i can use this if she has any debt to pay it off or to keep it for a fully funded emergency fund and then look into retirement so even though it's great to start early mathematically speaking it's much better to have cash available at 19.

hey i just have a couple of i guess a multi-part question all right go for it what's up we we're in are just coming out of baby step two uh where credit cards are paid off cars

we're right at the should have those paid off at the end of this month congratulations brother and then the only thing appreciate it the only thing left is our mortgage that's

first part second part is we own our

own business um and we do have a

business loan and we use credit cards at the business i mean i know even though we pay them off we we're looking at dropping those and just going like dave says going with the debit cards um but i i'm trying to figure out how to

move forward if we stuck to what we're doing now we could probably have our home paid off by the end of this year but i don't know if i should just go into the 15 or do them all simultaneous

i guess as far as retirement goes how much is your business loan

probably close to about 80 000. 80 000.

how much how much you have left on your mortgage about a 137. okay

well technically with business debt i mean it is still your debt right your name's on it you're responsible for it and that's the conversation me and my wife are happy totally so i yeah that's right so i would go ahead and pay off the business loan um okay because you said you'll be able to pay off your mortgage this year which means you're going to have 80 grand

this year to pay off that business loan so i would go ahead and relieve myself of that and then start looking at retirement like you said you're 15 um past that and then just kind of chip away at the house um but that's that's the order i would do because the hard thing with business debt again i feel like people function with two sides of their brain almost

they can like split it down the middle and say well that's my business side and this is my personal but it's still you like you're you still owe the money yeah you still have it so that that's a conversation my wife yeah it's a great and it's a great conversation it's personal i mean it i mean it's still guaranteed by me right exactly exactly so that's right yeah we're still guaranteeing yet which which kind of stinks in a way

because at least if you're paying off your house it's like you've a paid for asset for you personally it feels so personal where the business again feels like this other part of your life but it is your life so i'd go ahead and pay off the business loan if i were you daniel and with that kind of that kind of income you're you're almost you're flipping it right

so two years from now you're gonna have a paid off house yeah you're gonna have a debt-free business right and then you can start building up the business emergency fund your homework fund that's fantastic that's right that's right have you ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end because you didn't do your research me too rachel probably has it i have

most people make choices based on feelings or opinions especially when they're buying a house people fall in love with the house as though it's a person right but when it comes to the real estate market feelings are not your friend facts are so check your facts find out

what you can actually afford research trending in home research what's trending in home prices talk to a reputable real estate person in your area never buy a house without the facts again text house to 33789 and get an agent who will

help you make smart decisions that's house to three three seven

eight nine listen rachel i used a

ramsey real estate elp

it was incredible and here's why i come from texas where you know they ask for 150 000 for a house and you

say i'll give you 110 and they're like pew

pew pew how about 140 right and we all shake hands in the middle in nashville that same house is 11 million dollars and they expect you to give a million dollars over the asking yeah 12 million actually and write me a letter and i want you to sing a song on our front porch and um we go ahead and invest in my child's retirement account i mean it's like bananas so i had the first few houses we put offers on come now i feel like an idiot and

my real estate agent i'm a little bit loud and demonstrative and i'm like

john my elp she called and said we need

to have a talk about um your expectations and about reality

and rachel her name's amanda she is incredible she let me have it in the most professional awesome way totally recalibrated my brain kept my

marriage intact i think and we ended up in an awesome house that took too long to buy because the national market's bananas but having that person who was trained and a person of integrity and who knew the market sideways and forwards and would say this is a bad offer we're not doing this right and would say hey this is a really good deal this is what you're looking for

let's go for it yeah yep so good that's the thing about i feel like when it comes to our life these parts of our lives that can be complicated and kind of intimidating if there's people that work in them day in and day out use it like like let them do it have a professional in your back pocket at all times it's awesome hey another hour in

the books thank you so much rachel thank you james and kelly and bobby bobertson this is the ramsay show

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this is james childs producer of the ramsay show did you know the ramsay show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcast

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm john delony joined here with my good friend and best-selling author rachel cruz and we are taking calls about your relationships and your money and your mental health and everything going on in your life give us a shout triple 825-5225 that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

let's jump to the phones let's talk to jennifer in tampa florida jennifer what's going on hi thank you so much for taking my call how are you guys we are outstanding thank you so much for giving us a shout so what's up so here's the back story my husband and i make 140 000 we are saving for retirement second baby

on the way have a college fund for our first child we have about twenty thousand dollars in the bank we have fifteen thousand dollar emergency fund baby step six um we have seventy five thousand dollars in a single stock and our question is we're wondering if we should invest in the stock market or if we should pay off our house we have 200 000 left on our mortgage

the only issue is we know that we're probably going to want to move within the next five to 10 years um not guaranteed but we know that we would like to move this isn't we don't believe in a forever house but we don't think this is our long-term house gotcha well y'all are crushing it congratulations we are we're very black we've been listening dave ramsey for a while that's

so great so you're wondering if you need to pay off the house yeah should we pay off the house should we save um cash for our next house

um what is the single stock we want we

don't have to move i'm sorry what's the single stock that the 75 000 is sitting in is it work related stock

is it is it stock available from your company or is it you just guys wouldn't bought a bunch of a stock it was um it was it was the company my husband used to work for okay not investing okay

and what other retirement do you guys have jennifer um we're doing 15 percent you are currently doing 15.

years um since we've had that

and we have our emergency fund we have twenty thousand dollars in the bank we also transferred another twenty thousand dollars that's in a separate account that we're putting that towards the house every month wow so should we just throw that all on the mortgage so i guess we have forty thousand dollars in the emergency emergency fund yeah that's great good for you guys yeah well obviously yeah yeah so from the emergency fund oh separate yes well obviously keep that emergency fund the 15 grand that you said i'm assuming that's your three to six months of expenses leaving that cash in the bank and then everything else combined that that forty thousand dollars in savings i would yeah that that single stock i wouldn't keep in especially since the company doesn't work for anymore and it's sort of a different story if you want to buy into the company you're in all of that but you guys are out of that so i would take that out and i mean you could you could hit that house real hard jennifer i mean you could you could pay off half the mortgage with just that cash um and how old are you guys we're 32.

32.

degree with zero debt and i'm

currently planning to start grad school in the fall in january i'm actually looking at

either english or humanities i'm looking at a career in academia so i'm trying to figure out where exactly i want to position myself gotcha so

in january i bought a car and

put half down financed the rest that's

my first and only debt so i currently have thirty thousand

dollars in savings to cash flow

grad school awesome and i'm wondering right now is it a smart idea to go ahead and just completely kill the car loan and pay that off before i start grad school or or should i kind of put that through how much do you have left on the car

uh about ten thousand ten grand okay

um yeah i would go ahead and tackle the car um because grad school you're gonna have obviously it's it's very expensive but you have time chunks of time right to to pay it as you go um

where if you get this car out of the way that debt all your income can go towards aka investing in yourself actually i mean putting that money towards grad school to continue afloat um which i believe you can do because like you went through undergrad which you're crazy weird right now yeah you you're without them how did you do that ashley people are wondering that because everyone graduates with student loans everyone does that's normal how'd you do it yeah yeah so i had really great

supportive parents so i lived with them

for the first bunch of school i actually went to the community college i got two associate degrees through there and worked through school um so i was paying as i went um i also was able to get a pretty good gpa so i got a scholarship to go to university and i actually was able to finish up university in only three semesters because i had done so much uh through

the community college and your degree is from the university that you wanted and you paid very fraction of it because of what you did ashley you're so smart so smart well done yeah well done pay that car off and before my mom is an english professor those jobs are hard to come by these days so before you go to grad school sit down with a person who works in that field

and get some real life

information about what that lifestyle is like what the what the money on that life is going to be and what the day to day is going to be it's usually different than people think it's the roi it's a hard life beautiful we need good english professors but it's tough

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triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsay show i'm john deloney joined here with rachel cruz ramsey personality taking your calls on life and money

find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get

the best deal rules and restrictions apply

rachel today's question comes from herbert new york i'm a history professor at an expensive private university students from my department will most likely not go on to make a six figure income as most of them want to teach part of my

job is to recruit students into my my departments but i cannot in good conscience tell them to take out loans i know most of them do because they couldn't afford private tuition otherwise what do i say to students to get them to my department but at the same time being realistic realistic that my major is maybe not the best thing for their financial future

that's a hard one john what do you think oh man well that's hard

this particular person um

yeah the values of their institution the values of the place that that pays for their paycheck is not in line with the values that sit on his pillow every night and one of the questions i would have if herb was just hanging out here and we have a cup of coffee and he's asking me the same question it would go deeper than that for me because he's doing a good job of distancing himself from this issue and making it a moral and ethical issue for them not for him the reality is his business

is supported by something he didn't

believe in so it's not so much as it's it you can flip this around right he doesn't want students to go into debt and he's having a hard time encouraging them to take on debt to get a degree that he knows they're going to struggle to pay back yep but deeper than that where i want to charge challenge herb is you're taking a salary from a company

that doesn't align with your values and

he's got a hard question he's taking care of these students but he's not really getting to the root of the question yeah which is do i believe in where i

even work and we we've taken calls on this show like hey i wanted to work in finance my whole life my whole life and i got my first job out of college at a local bank and all i'm doing is selling loans right and i spent all this time getting out of debt and i don't think i can keep doing this right yeah and so i think everybody

everybody has to have that hard conversation does what put food on my table align

with my values yep and you don't always have to go

running for the hills right like i gotta quit today and i'm gonna sure sure sure but i do think that's a worthy conversation to have herb i'm gonna tell you i know a number of people i've had this exact conversation with a number of my friends across the united states some of them have said i've got to get out of work in higher ed i can't keep doing

this some have made a transition from this from a private you know expensive private school to a community college some of them have just said man this is what it is what it is right the students are grown-ups they can choose to make this decision on their own and we're going to keep blown ahead the value proposition is different from everybody but man herb you're not going to be able to sleep i'm telling

you right now based on that question yep what do you recommend to folks who are balancing yeah i don't i don't believe in where i work anymore because it's a complete it's a complete mind shift right yeah from what you saw was okay and normal to suddenly realizing in probably his own life oh wow i don't i hate debt i'm going to get out well and now i'm here assuring a new generation a generation right into

it knowing that they're going to get jobs that aren't going to even support them financially to pay off the debt like well and if you're any kind of professor who obviously herb's good at what he does just because of his this the the depth of this question you talk to students all day long and you hear what's on their heart mind and what's number one on their heart mind is i'm never gonna be able to pay

this back ever i'm never gonna be able to pay this back so this is probably a bigger question that you can answer but you worked kind of in the sector in life like you've for a long time yeah you've been a part of it so how do we and again it's a bigger conversation but

prop the next generation and say yes education is good and we need people in all these fields right like the last call we just took was about an english professor uh his wasn't it yeah about one to be an english professor yeah yes and all of that in the roi and yes uh going to school and grad school and all that and you mentioned yeah just make sure

you talk to someone that's been in that world so you know so like how do we keep all of that because we need that in our society like we need english professors we need people that are getting degrees in fields that are not supported financially do you know what i'm saying but the degree is so expensive like it's just it feels like a not a lost cause

but it's defeating it's it's sitting in rc because i'm like man you believe in all that stuff and you and you love the people in those institutions and they're great but it just feels like it's broken yeah i think that's what it comes down to is i am i am somebody who believes deeply

that we have let go

the arts we have let go english we have let go the ability to read and discern some of these problems we're having now writers have been writing on the stuff for hundreds if not thousands of years right but we don't teach history anymore we don't teach them these things anymore because it's all about roi what's the roi on this job we get a coding job so i think we lose something i really really do yeah and you can't charge 150 000 dollars

first for a job it's it's a better they're gonna make forty thousand dollars

i think it's both and i think everybody in this conversation has to put it on the table sure and i will say i i know a number of higher ed leaders that are trying to fix it from inside out i know a number of tech companies that are trying to solve it from the outside and we all got a great lesson this last year man just throwing everything online

and gonna solve it either that has been miserable and we also learned a lot how can you make online learning better because it could be cheaper but you're right it's a mess yeah right and we need some grown-ups to stop acting like kids and actually say we're gonna be a part of some of these solutions and there's some really bold higher ed leaders who are making some major changes

there are some bold tech folks who are weighing in so i think we're going to see some significant shifts and i hope hope hope for the sake of our kids it's not at the expense of reading in history and music but it's at the expense of man it's not a four-year vacation anymore yeah right that's right that was a moment that's what's wild is that the four-year institution college as what

we knew when we went probably like it is what it is it was affordable you could you know i mean all of it i mean and not that you can't still go to school debt free we just got a call from someone that did it you can figure it out you can do it yeah but it's uh it has shifted and bring in 2020 when most of

the universities were closed and it was online yeah it's just i mean it's it's a shifting we don't have a solution

if eight if however many millions of eighteen-year-olds just hit the job market tomorrow in 1982 we can't absorb that either right so it's not as simple as close all the col that's a bad decision sure sure and so yeah it's gonna take some leadership which is the key here and some people being really honest about what tomorrow's gonna look like and some people not getting what they want et cetera et cetera

and that brings us back to her you're gonna have to have a hard conversation with the mirror my brother and not only about these students you're gonna have to have a hard conversation about where it does your income come from do you align with the values of where you where you draw a paycheck from and can you do what your job asks you to do and if your job is asking

you to do something that violates your core value system you got to find the job man yeah you got to and that's not higher just higher education that is that's absolutely every job you're listening yep that's it or you work at a gas station and you get a new manager that asks you to do stuff right it's like it's everywhere you got

to have those core set of values and say this is where my line is yes right yes which is part of knowing yourself and that's a lot of the stuff you talk about you got to know yourself is the self-awareness of that i mean like it's it's huge understanding why you do the things you do that's right and and and where you co yeah you talk about

it too i think all of us distilled down to this idea of you got to be intentional you got to be intentional that's right all right russ let's uh russell let's go to russell i'm just going to say russell about eight times here russell in virginia beach what's up russell how are we doing hey how are y'all today i appreciate you taking my call oh hey brother listen

i messed up the clock here hang on here and we're gonna roll you over and we'll get you right after this break i should have just kept talking for a second i tried to i tried to extend this a little bit john i'm not going to lie well i talk about self-awareness should we talk about self-awareness we'll get there we'll come to you soon we'll be right back russell

this is the ramsay show

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825-5225 we're taking your calls on life

and money i'm john delonie joined by rachel cruz we're going back to russell in virginia beach russell what's going on brother

russell are you there my man yeah i'm here one of the key things about uh answering the phone is actually picking it up so sorry about that so what's up man we're definitely here hey i'm seeking some advice today go for them i'm quickly approaching about 35 years of service in the navy oh thank you congratulations man yeah thanks i appreciate that it's been an awesome experience so uh recently bought

a home when we transferred back to virginia um the home was about a half million bucks and uh my wife and i have no credit card

or car loans the home is really it and

so we've done pretty well we've got about 400 in mutual funds uh which we continue to invest in we've got another roughly 230 between roth ira and off psp

and continue to contribute to that we've got about 115 in cash so my question is

is it a smart move knowing that i'm

going into retirement at least from the military and to take a large chunk of money say 300 000 out of my mutual funds to put on the house which would allow me to pay the house off by like 20 29.

if you pulled out the three how much do you owe on the house total today 4.90 4.90 okay now all the mutual funds

you just rattled off a lot of them were roth so are they all retirement specific mutual funds no no no the the 400 of it is just mutual funds oh

it's just a mutual fund okay so no penalties if you cash that out there's no retirement penalties there no yes just tax right yep yep um yeah i mean russell if i were you

if you if you wanted to take a chunk and throw it at the house because your other retirement i mean you have some other retirement the ones you you just named my yeah my first year out of service uh my retirement will be eighty thousand take them okay yes

i i would if i were you um again i would

not take out for those listening i would not cash out retirement in order to pay off that yeah no i wasn't planning on catching that yeah exactly but the mutual fund i mean you have 400 in it yeah you could take a chunk of it and throw it at the house because a goal um obviously is to pay off the home

and to be able to you'll be getting that 80 grand from your service and you'll you have these other these other vehicles for retirement which you can live off of as well so having a paid for close to paid for paid for home in that big time is is

huge so russell i'm i'm uh curious

30 years in the service

and now you think yeah you're transitioning out to become a civilian what are you gonna do

that's the million-dollar question i have some ideas i have a side hustle i breed snakes uh

so that's well that's what my little brother does my brother does that too yep i've been doing it for about 20 years okay what kind of snakes does it make a lot of money but it brings in about 20 a year yeah wow that's a pretty good gig

do you use real live mice or frozen ones

there you go that's a true breeder right there we could really get off the rails on this conversation russell i like you we could we could but yeah so

go ahead go ahead i was gonna say i i i'm a hundred percent with rachel i love the idea of you having that great military pension which you've earned every penny of and having a paid for house or really close to paid for house and um man getting this jet set off whatever the rest of your life's gonna be having the greatest reptile sale

online salesman in the country man russell the snake man i love it all right let's go to maggie in san diego maggie what's going on

uh hi thank you for taking my call um i'm new to the program so i'm just starting off in the baby steps i'm on number two to our band of

weirdos maggie we're glad that you're here thank you thank you um so i moved in with my aunt to be her full-time caregiver um and three years ago she put my name on her unless we did a grant bead but now i'm debating if i should sell my house since those prices are skyrocketing right now in order to pay off her house as well as pay off the rest of my debt because if i

keep the house that my house i could use it as an investment

you know later on down the line and have that as a secure monthly income but if i sell it off now

that's like a quick way to kind of get ahead sure

maggie how much debt do you have that you want to pay off um the only that i have is my car payments for my kids and that's about 28 000. 28 000 car payments for your

kids why aren't they paying their own car payment uh well i i did make some prompts to my kids before they went off to college that i'd buy them a car so they wouldn't have to worry about transportation so uh you know i'm still making the payments on them all right that's another phone call that's another phone call um maggie so you have those car payments 28 grand and that's it except for your aunt's home that you are on now on the deed of and how much is the home

her house is there's probably about a hundred and thirty thousand left on her house on

my house um that i'm not even living in right now my husband is there pretty much by himself um is about two hundred and eighty thousand left that we owe that two 280 and how much how much is it worth how much equity would you get from it it's worth about 600 000.

oh wow okay and how much is your aunt's house worth probably about 550 something like that

500 okay and so your husband is in your home yeah

so does he want to move in with your aunt is he is he on board with this well he doesn't want to but he's going to help you well played well played that sounds like i should probably have a breakfast together and talk about this uh what what is that what's the plan here for are are you is your is your aunt terminal are you planning on taking over

the home after she can have to move to a care at some point to skilled nursing or something we're going to take care of her here because i'm already i am a nurse so she'll get the best care for me so is there any other family drama that doesn't like this that are sitting you mean notes about it or is everybody happy that hey you take the house

you take ant and we're going to move on yes sir

everyone's okay with i mean they know i'm the closest one too that's why she couldn't she did a grant b when her husband died so we wouldn't have a problem with it okay it's been i i i don't i

my my hesitation maggie is you putting your money on a home that you're that the deed is split so it's not your entire home it is her home so that feels a little messy to me i would rather it be her home or your home that you take over

and you say i'm gonna just that you're you know aunt you're sick you don't need the burden of this i'm gonna just buy it from you and there'd be a clean line there so that's one conversation i would probably have maggie this feels a little bit convoluted when with both of you on the deed i don't really care for that um but also yeah if you're not living in

the house and you guys are going to be living with your aunt for the foreseeable future you don't need your other home um but you also but also the car payments are 28 000 which is a lot but you could work and pay that off keep the home rent it out do something with it because it has great equity so it's basically do you want to mess with the home do you not because if you had if you had 150

000 in student loan debt this probably would be a different conversation but the 28 000 you probably could put the pedal to the metal and get it paid off quick and still have your home if you wanted to keep it or you could say i don't even it's not even worth the trouble messing with renters any of that we're gonna just cash out get the equity out uh pay off that and have a big chunk of change in the bank which which feels good to me as well what's the status of your marriage

well that's a whole other conversation sir that okay um we we're like i said i just started with the baby because we've been coming for 21 years we've never mixed our finances ever [Music] but that's something that we that i do want to certainly now yeah you know i just felt like it was a

waste to you know have that second house i totally get that it's not uncommon that couples who have been in your situation they've been had parallel lives they've been married for a long time they've had a great relationship but they haven't been fully together then one of them goes to be a primary caregiver for somebody else and the whole thing comes unglued so i want you to go get with your husband

and y'all have some hard conversations about what the next 20 years are going to look like you got a guy's got to do this together otherwise you're going to end up um all by yourself and i don't want that for either okay we thinking about your marriage hang in there maggie this is the ramsay

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our scripture of the day comes from daniel 10 14 and came to make you understand what it is to happen to your people in the latter days for the vision is four days yet to come never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it the time will pass away earl nightingale

well that's kind of deep hold on let's hear that again never give up on a dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it the time will pass anyway yeah so

it's going to pass anyway you might as well put it toward a dream a fun there's a couple that my wife knows back in texas and they were talking about they were like 35 and they were chit-chatting with one another and they were both like man we both wanted to go to med school and be doctors and they went and talked

to somebody and the person said well here's the deal you're gonna be 42

anyway the question you are asking is do we go to med school or not it's when you're 42 do you want to be doctors or not yeah and it's going to happen that way so why not right what is the obsession with this so i love that quote man figure it out both my parents have made major shifts later in life and it's just adds a whole new universe i think that's a fun story when i hear people that yeah they get to their 50s or 60s

like you know what i'm gonna and they just whatever it is yeah and you're like man they just started this whole new life still haven't lost it's almost how you see it right but it's not the end no you're just i just wanna i just wanna slide in the end with no tread left on the tire yeah that's right that's right all right let's go to bethany in scranton pennsylvania home of

the office how are we doing bethany i'm good how are you good are you an office fan or do you get beat up with that all the time hey my husband turned me into an office band well you married well

thank you you married well so what's up how can we help thank you um i have a quick question i'm a stay-at-home mom and my husband and i have been on babysit baby steps excuse me four ish

um for a while we're just not quite at the 15 and i was just wondering if you would ever recommend um

lowering that 15 just so that we can have some movement in baby steps five and six how old are

you guys bethany i am 33 we're both 33 okay

and how much do you guys make my

husband makes a little under 50 000 a year okay and you're a stay at home mom you said um yes so the

the mathematical reason for the 15 is that it will guarantee that you will get to retirements with dignity that you won't have the money to be able to live your dreams and all of that um and so that 15

we we stick pretty hard on just to ensure that that's going to happen um but you guys for the income and for

your house specifically um because your

kid's college you're not a bad parent if you don't pay for your kids college like we've talked on here that you can you can send them to school they can do community college for for a few years transfer to a state school like they can have a great and honestly by the time your kids are in college as we've been talking who knows what that world is going to look like

so if you don't have the cash to be able to invest right now in your kids college you're not a bad parent but looking ahead at the house uh how much do you guys owe on the house um i think around 86 186 okay

yeah so i would if i were you bethany i would stick with that 15 for a little for a little bit longer and

then just i would i would almost um start because of your income and

everything start chipping away a little bit at the house if you have any to throw towards an esa or something it would be very helpful for your kids i mean that's in the order of the baby steps for sure um but it's just gonna be a little bit at a time like it may not just be this this huge you know you it's not this huge shovel that

you have that you're throwing all this money at and all that right i mean like you guys are having to be very very diligent to do it all that is what i that was my question rachel uh bethany what's your husband do my husband's a pastor he's a pastor there awesome is there a potential for him to pick up some additional income on the side for a few years to knock that house out um

he could if if someone is going to be driven in our house to do it it would probably be naped okay so we're just not that he's not

driven but he's carrying a lot of hats um just he's the only pastor on staff um and which means he's the pastor and

plumber and yard guy and hospital chaplain

what's y'alls um take home pay at bethany a month how much y'all make a month a month just shy of 4

000 i think and how much is that mortgage payment all right so around 650 650 okay

yeah that's not not terrible at all

yeah that percentage yeah yeah

absolutely man y'all are really trying to do it you're doing it um there's been seasons of my life when they've been just that which are seasons right which are we can continue to you know somebody stay home we're gonna keep in this job and we can do it for this season for the next two years or three years or five years and then there becomes the math problem right

we either have to get to a point where we can pay this off or we have to get to a point where we can reach that retirement goal right otherwise yeah you're going to continue you're going to find yourself 43 and 53 you mean a very similar boat right and you're not going to be any further towards any of these goals at all right and that's a hard place to be good for

you and your family though for having your values and knowing who you are and what you want to be about and then you're going to make it happen absolutely it's it's a little bit of that contentment issue too bethany you know because unless something changes with his salary as a pastor or something drastic i mean um yeah the numbers are and and i think you know god's called

you to this place if that's what you you know you guys are in it for a reason um i believe in that discernment in your life and your husband's life that you guys have chosen this because you know you're called to it and so it is it's just gonna there's gonna be a level of contentment um that you're probably gonna have to find as as a as a stay-at-home mom too um

i can just speak as a wife right like i mean you're you're on instagram and facebook and see it all and so there's just a level of saying hey god has us here for a reason and it's not gonna be big and flashy we're not gonna pay off the house in two years i mean that's not gonna be the story but that's okay but that's okay but

you guys are staying diligent being smart with the money that you do have and so you guys are doing great as somebody who um we've had this in our

home you've had to make decisions like am i going to take this speaking gig for this much money oh sure i'm going to stay at home oh 100 yeah and there's a real true cost to yep my values are here right

whatever they may be right and it's getting to that how do you help somebody get to that contentment because i struggle with that it's hard i made this choice but living with what that choice means it can be hard yes very much so i mean i i feel like gratitude is one of the first places to start and i know it's kind of like the cheesy answer

but it's true but it's uh christine kane i love what she says she says that gratitude is not thankful for what he's given us it's to be thankful for what he's entrusted to us so everyone's life looks different of what's what i believe in a spiritual sense right god has entrusted to you and what you have and so being grateful for that um i think a level of

it is humility and giving and serving and knowing that the world's not all about you yeah and that you looking up to say okay what what can i do to serve and help people in bethany gill's entire life is that your one of service and it's and it's an amazing calling um and so there's a lot of that and then i think there's like a level of maturity too yeah emotional

and spiritual maturity right to be able to kind of say okay we're here it's not always fun i'm choosing to stay at home i really want to go out to eat tonight right but we made this choice that's right and not beating yourself up when you have those secondary thoughts right those why can't we just go to florida like everybody else because we chose this and you can have both

and yes yes that's right and it's hard i remember talking i had two sets of friends and two were lawyers here in nashville

and just working insane hours i mean like kids were in daycare she had mom guilt it was terrible but they are doing it because they said at the end of it or like we'll get to a point where we don't have to work these hours but we're going to make a big income so that we can enjoy take our kids on vacation we want them to have experiences whatever

it is so they valued that right or wrong people probably have opinions but that is what they chose where i had another friend four kids he's a teacher yeah history teacher and coach she's she stays at home yep so talk about a tight budget they just figured out and they said yeah we know we can't do all these things but this is what we're choosing and that's

the beautiful thing about all of this there's a level of choice right that we have of what you value when you live out of those values that's where the joy and contentment can come back to contentment right chasing it someone else's that doesn't work for you well that's another show on the books i want to thank james childs and kelly daniel for their

incredible engineering work and call screening action thanks to my good friend rachel cruz this has been the ramsay show

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit daveramsey.com show and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell your story

you

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtube and podcast show the

table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is number one national best-selling author of business boutique has some amazing things going on host of the christy wright show um and killing the game especially around ladies and uh starting a business like

christy what's up hey this is gonna be fun you and i get feisty i'm pretty excited about this oh this is gonna be so good so this is like we haven't done this this year have we no no you all get ready fast in your seatbelts two people who who love each other who also love to talk so uh we have two speeds a sleeve or a hundred miles an hour there's no in between

there is no in between with us you know we're going to talk real fast we're going to get straight to the question uh and we're going to be very honest you know and so if you have a question about your life about your money if you want to start a business um there's this is a one woman appreciation month or woman acknowledgement month or something like that um

and so we have a woman uh who really

loves helping ladies accomplish their goals their dreams starting businesses and so i want you to give us a call christy wright is the i say she's the queen really she's the king but she's a woman so she's the queen in this space and so give us a call at 825-5225

that's triple eight eight two five five two two five uh you can find us both on social media if you want to send us a question at anthony o'neil for myself and at christie is it right yes i thought so christy b wright sent us your questions and we would love to have a conversation with you uh let's get straight to the phone let's do it i love

it so let's go out to my home state north carolina raleigh north carolina uh good afternoon rory how can christina help me hey guys how are you guys doing doing all right hey so i had a quick question uh i'm currently 18 years old i just moved out of my parents house on monday okay uh um i'm in school part-time at a

community college and i i was just offered an internship with amazon it's going to be 15 15 months it'll be

paid and i'm cash flowing college i'm paying for everything and i was just wondering where i should get started with the baby steps oh man rory this is good now uh what community college are you going to there in raleigh uh it's wake tech lake technical community college absolutely yeah i know i know all about wake tech man i was going to go to a fayetteville tech uh in fayetteville north carolina about an hour

and a half away from there so i know exactly where you're going how much is amazon paying you man for these uh next 18 months uh it's gonna be

twenty dollars an hour uh 40 hours a week what's the point of some money brother that's what i'm talking about okay any any debt do you have right now do you have any credit cards uh no sir i'm completely debt free it's it's a uh it's a robotic internship they just built a warehouse here and i'm studying mechatronics so cool yeah that's awesome

i love it i love it well you know chrissy i think the very first thing rory should do is really just skip over baby step two um and really just start saving your three to six months rory you're a young man you just moved out on your own and so what i want you to do is i want you to sit down and get on an every dollar budget okay rory what you're going to do is you're going to list all of your income which is going to be your amazon check um if you're driving for uber eats if you're doing anything extra i want you to list all your income then i want you to list all your expenses so this is going to be you know your rent this is going to be you know if you have an iphone or android phone any apps you're paying for um you're a young man so i'm pretty sure you're single so if you out dating you need to have a line item for dating okay um so you got to get creative list all your expenses i don't know why your young people out here laughing at me i know that's real i see y'all laughing at me uh but you know you got to put everything on there so you can have control over your money that's the key thing that i really want you to understand rory you're gonna start with baby step number three and baby set number three is gonna be three to six months of your living expenses okay and you're gonna do that by getting on an every dollar budget and that's the first place where i would say start but the key thing is man once you get that three to six months rory if you can do that by the end of this year and start investing next year you'll be 19.

if you can start investing 15 percent of your income rory but before you turn 50 you're going to be a multi-millionaire just by doing the bare basics so i mean

i i love it i mean here's the cool thing rory the fact that you're asking this question at 18 you gonna be okay like

most 18 year olds are not asking this question not calling the ramsey show and not cash flowing their college you are doing awesome you're asking the right questions you're already set up for success the one caution i would give you if you take this internship which sounds like an awesome opportunity you're about to have some money yes and when you got some money you know what it does it wants to burn a hole in your pocket because you're like oh i'm living good i got all this money it feels like so much and just like anthony's telling you don't lose focus of your goals and your plan just because you got a little cash in your pocket it'll be very tempting to overspend that so just be aware of that stick to your plan and you're going to be just fine that's awesome man listen hearing those calls what so cool yeah i was not asking that question at 18.

i was like do i get another t-shirt for that credit card where do i sign sign me right on up yeah i had to pay for my mistakes in my 20s i'm thinking about t-shirts free pizza

the ladies it's free money y'all no it's

not no it's not no it's really not man so rory man take my hats off to you thank you so much for calling in you are a true example of what most 18 year olds what most young people need to be doing is thinking about their future and so thank you for asking that question and make sure to check out with me um over on my show man i'm really gearing my show towards that younger audience

so come over there to the table with your boy anthony o'neil youtube podcast and i'm gonna show you how to keep the bag um and really build some more wealth man i love it let's keep the conversation going uh triple eight eight two five five two two five ramsey personalities anthony o'neil and christy wright are in the building today um we're looking forward to having a good show with

you uh we're gonna go out to richmond virginia and have a conversation with matthew uh good afternoon matthew uh real quickly what's your question hi there uh thanks for taking my call yeah um so so the question is my wife and i have saved up a bit of money money over the last few years we now have enough for our first house the problem is we don't know

if we should actually buy our first house buy an investment property or hold off until we figure out where we

go next with uh with our family okay just moved out of new york city the plan is to go to um the west coast

closer to family but you know all the markets and everything going on but just we don't know what the next move is and yeah maybe you can help us out a little bit yeah so are you do you plan on moving within the next three years uh within the next three months oh yeah so then we're not buying nothing yeah yeah so here's the thing um i don't want

you to buy anything until you know you're going to be in this city for at least three to five years bare minimum is three the ideal situation is five um but if you're moving within the next three months no don't don't buy anything because you don't want to be a long-distance landlord because you won't be able to watch it and really take care of it and then for me personally i'm going to buy a house actually

and live in a house before i go out and get some rental property so put your family into a good home then start talking about how to generate some more income that's good i like it that's good it's good one yo it's chrissy right anthony o'neill right here on the ramsay show and we'll be right back

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find healthcare coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at ch chministries.org we

absolutely believe in it

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welcome back to the ramsey show i'm christy wright author of business boutique co-hosting with fellow ramsey personality anthony o'neil and anthony i'm so excited because we get to have a conversation with someone that i absolutely love jamie kern lima is the founder of

it cosmetics who recently sold to l'oreal for a billion dollars so just a small accomplishment in her life and she has a new book called believe it how to go from underestimated to unstoppable jamie how are you christy i'm so good

thank you so much for having me here how fun is this that i get to talk to you on the ramsay show with anthony we were just talking about you off air and how amazing you are jamie i know so much of your story i had the honor of having you speak at business boutique last year i've had you on the christy wright show but for anyone listening that isn't familiar with you would you just tell us a little bit about your story and your new book believe it yeah

you know i'm probably most well known for going from denny's waitress to uh creating a dream

in my living room and going after it and and building that to it cosmetics which is now one of the largest uh luxury makeup companies in the country and then selling it to l'oreal but uh the reason i wrote believe it christy is um you know every single day i hear from so many people saying oh congrats on you know your fairy tale but i'm struggling or i'm getting rejected or my dream's not getting off

the ground and i realize if we don't ever share like the real stories behind the stories um then everyone feels alone in their own setbacks and gets tempted to give up and everything else so believe it it's really a book about overcoming self-doubt um what to do when

when you're not getting the kind of traction or or or success that you're hoping for when people like look you in the eye and tell you you're not enough what do you do in those situations um my real story is you know three years of having everyone say no uh with it cosmetics and uh eventually

turning those nose into yeses but it was a really long road um really filled with a lot of self-doubt and it's really it's really how do you go from not believing in yourself to believing in yourself and i think it's not just my story it's a story of so many people out there right now especially coming out of a hard season right up 14 months and a lot of people have been dimming their own light

and this is a book that hopefully will help everyone ignite their light again and learn to believe in themselves and the possibility of their own dream i love that i love your story because one of the things that's really cool about this book anthony is she has so many stories that you would never know if she didn't tell it and jamie you shared some of these stories on stage at business boutique

but i think that people would easily look at someone like you and think well she just she's an overnight success she just magically appeared on the mountaintop she's so lucky all these extra things and you tell story after story after story in this book of how you were looked in the face and told no how you had to overcome adversity overcome setbacks from stories at qvc to trade shows where you're literally stalking people down

the aisles trying to get to the right person to tell your story but you have this even through all these stories and setbacks you have a tenacity you have a won't take no for an answer attitude and i think that that is something so special about you would you tell us like where does that come from and how can people that don't have that naturally how can

they do that too that that may not come as as naturally to to be such a go-getter like that yeah i think you know everyone listening to the three of us right now i feel like all of us know inside of god's like place a dream

on our heart or maybe there's something in us that you know we we have that inkling where we know we need to create or or or or launch the business or maybe we're in the wrong job or the wrong relationship we all kind of have those feelings and you know i did a lot of things wrong that i talked about in the book but but the biggest theme through

the whole book really and the things that i did right was when i had that feeling that knowing that internal knowing um i made a decision to trust it and and

i think that uh i think that so many people know if

they're kind of made for more or they're you know have more to give or create or they need to start painting again or whatever it might be but they still doubt themselves anyways and this book is really about how do you break through that that barrier of self-doubt and step into really the person you're born to be you know and and yeah i was super super hard working and super ambitious but i think really this is what i believe i believe

and that's why i love that you guys share so many people's stories and so many people that had success stories through everything that you've done it uh with with the ramsey companies because when we see other people's stories and we learn how they got through it that's when we like pull those stories in we can lean on them ourselves um so yeah my book is really about of course working hard

and not giving up and those kind of things but really it's about how do you learn how to believe in yourself and trust yourself like hear your own knowing and make the decisions to trust it because i think that's that's the ultimate success um for all of us in our lives so james let me ask you this question this is anthony man good to meet you i i've i've seen

you on uh christy stage and i'm like man she's amazing and i have a question we have a lot of people who sometimes uh do not believe in themselves they they doubt their own selves they're scared to experience some type of failure to go to the next next level

uh what was one thing that you had to get over and what what could you say to inspire someone uh to say you know what hey start believing in yourselves start pushing yourself forward what would you say to that individual listening right now yeah the first thing i'll say is like i've now anthony had the blessing of meeting so many inspiring people that i never could have imagined meeting

the first thing i've learned is they all still struggle with self-doubt so the first thing i'd say is you're not alone anyone listening right now feels like oh i just don't believe in myself you're not alone and i think that's really important to know but also one tool i would say is really

starting to take inventory of who you let speak into your life about your own dreams a lot of us i talk in my book believe it about how to do this in terms of like if you imagine you have your own microphone we all have our own microphone and sometimes we hand our microphone over to somebody who after we share our hopes or our dreams or our situation with

we end up like you know self-doubt gets bigger right and sometimes it's our partner sometimes it's our family our friends people who love us but when we share our dreams or our hopes with them they kind of see them through the lens of their own fear or their own self-doubt and so one thing i talk about in this journey of building belief is learning how to like take your microphone back from some people in your life

you can love them but talk to them about you know what's going on with the weather and how it's for dinner but you know really curating the people around you and people listening to your radio show right now that's a way for people to speak into people about things that they want to do whether it's get out of debt or go after their dream right curating who

you hand your microphone to who you take it back from super important a lot of times we you know let everyone else's opinion get so loud that we that we and our own self doubt build that we don't even hear our own truth anymore so

that's one of many things to do on the

journey that i had to learn how to do because anthony i was told no so many times i was told no one will buy makeup from someone who looks like you with your body and your weight is what one investor said when they passed on investing i was told you know i mean on and on and on and i had to learn to turn down the volume on that before it took root in me and like turn up the volume on my own knowing and and

and people that spoke positivity in my life wow i love that because it's so practical and and something anybody can do now jamie before we go i want to ask you one more question because we talked about this on stage at business boutique you've shared this story on the christy wright show and i know anthony's going to love it so you are the epitome of success and

you have a story about how you were on the forbes richest wealth you know self-made women list and you didn't want to be on it and after three years of them putting you on it anyway you learned something would you just real quick before we go tell us something you learned about that experience because i think it is such a great lesson for men and women as

we um want to chase our version of success yeah you know i did not when i got that first phone call because listen i i've been a denny's waitress i have been so scrappy and worked so hard my whole life and when we eventually sold our company to l'oreal they announced the purchase price it was all over the wall street journal everywhere so all of a sudden

i find myself on the on the forbes list and and the name of the list was forbes richest self-made women and i was mortified i was embarrassed by it i

didn't want it to be shared and this was this went on for three years until i had this huge epiphany where i was like wait a minute

oh my gosh jamie i am so grateful for your story thank you for sharing with us thank you for being a light i love how you are just inspiring people to believe in themselves this is

the ramsay show

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsay show and ramsey personalities chrissy wright and myself anthony o'neil are with you on during this hour and on the last segment man we had the opportunity chrissy to interview one of your friends uh jamie who who's clearly a success story oh my gosh i'm like well i kind of want to get her on my show i'm i

she's amazing and what's so cool about her story from starting this makeup company in her living room to now having a billion dollar company that sold to l'oreal she just has this humble spirit and she really wants people to believe in themselves one of the things she didn't mention when we talked to she's donating all the proceeds from the book she donated her time to be at business boutique like she's just such a generous giving person

i could have talked to her all day um but but i wanted you guys to know you can get her book believe it jamiekernlima.com or

believe it dot com and i know she has an action plan and that kind of thing i did want to tell you anthony one story that we didn't get to wrap up because you'll find this fascinating so when jamie was uh called to be interviewed to be on the forbes richest women list she didn't want to be on it they were like we're going to we're going to publish how much

you make and we're going to publish and she's like no no no no no like i don't want to be on it this makes me feel uncomfortable they said well we the the records are public we're going to put you on it like it or not and they did so they published about her year number two same thing publisher she's like oh i feel so weird people know how much my business is worth how much

you know i'm wearing all this stuff year two they put her on there without her having a quote year three i think it was you're three or four they call her again to get a quote and so by year three or four she's like

all right i think i'll i think i'll give a quote like i think i'll actually like maybe this could be a light for people to help them see if i can do it uh you know they can do it too and so she decided to well she's talking to the interviewer the journalist and and she said i'm sorry it just makes me really uncomfortable and the journalist said all

the women do it and she said what she said all the women don't want to be on the list she said what's funny is all the women don't want to be on the list and they feel very uncomfortable with how much they make and that anybody's going to know it but every single man argues that they should be higher on the list about why they should be jockeying for a higher position

i was like man women can learn something from this you don't need to be ashamed of your success your success can be a light for other people to go behind you so that's the story i was trying to get to and we ran out of time but she's amazing you can get the book believe it and the action plan at believeit.com it's just incredible uh how inspirational her story is what a light

she is and i like how you just came for the brothers on that one

ladies want to be humble guys we want to be boastful guys sit down no women need to stand up we got we both got something to learn we both got something to learn from that don't be ashamed of what god's doing in your life absolutely you don't need to apologize for that so i thought that was cool and that's a good one and for the guys and whatever god is doing for your life don't exaggerate

it you know yeah well you know one of the things i see women and this is true with business boutique but anything we have all this is this is our posture anthony's like oh this little thing oh just this little

i just got this little side business oh it's nothing and i'm like you're diminishing not only your own sense of self-confidence but you're downplaying playing the kindness and truth in someone's compliments you're you're apologizing for god's gifts in your life like this is not humility this is just not true and so i think there's the confidence and humility are not mutually exclusive you can be confidently humble

and you know humbly confident and and you can hold your life with open hands so anyway i just love her example because she is gracious and humble and insanely successful and yes you can be both and honestly uh all jokes aside we need to hear messages like hers that's right you know to go from there to now a billionaire a wealthy woman um i mean we need that yeah

and keep your character intact along the way it's she's so impressive absolutely absolutely well let's get back to the phone uh christy triple eight eight two five five two two five we're having a conversation about your life your money you wanna start a business the lady is in the building if you are a woman and you need encouragement in whatever area of your life spiritually mentally emotionally hey christy wright is in

the building and for all y'all young people you want to get this bag or you want to make some money for the older people generation or give

us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five and let's go out to new york and have a conversation with matt matt good afternoon how can chrissy and i help uh good afternoon a

pleasure to talk to you guys uh so i'm about to graduate from college uh i have a job with secured with a seventy thousand dollar salary okay and i'm gonna graduate with uh thirty thousand dollars with that okay so i already have eight thousand dollars saved up and i wanna like attack this debt but uh the issue is my my car that i currently use that i'm going to have to use for my job uh it's uh kind of 20 years old and uh

i suspect it's about to die in the next year or so so how do i like balance between like making sure i have enough cash on hand to like get a new car or a new used car

and uh attacking out of debt all right so you have eight thousand dollars in a savings right right okay cool and you're saying you think the car is going to die in a year right

yeah there's nothing like like specifically wrong with it but there's things that have been going wrong with it uh recently and uh yeah yeah i'm just concerned about it's a longevity yeah i'll get you you ain't concerned about the car because i think i think you're concerned because you got the money you want to go buy a newer car um if nothing is going wrong with the car right now this is what i want you to do i want you to take 7 000 of that and i want you to put it towards your 30 000 of debt right now your student loans then what i want you to do if you start seeing issues with your car okay and it starts starts to have some issues i mean some serious issues too matt i'm not talking about you know you think you heard something so now you need a car now like no it's not working it's broke it's not drivable then i have no problem with you pausing paying off this thirty thousand dollars but how old are you right now matt uh i'm 21.

gazelle focused get intense get a purpose get driven um you can pay off the debt this

year you're making 70 000 on there how do you do something on the side to generate another 20 000 this year so if you can pay off your debt this year then next year you can focus on saving up cash to go buy you a real nice quality used car so what i'm going to say for you right now is don't worry about purchasing a new car right now

because you said nothing's wrong with the car right now great i would take it to the shop maybe get it tuned up a little bit you can take some of your eight thousand dollars to do that and get a good fresh get a good oil change maybe get some good new tires on there um then from there put the rest onto your debt and just just attack

the debt then next year let's go ahead and start the process of saving yeah my my advice is so similar to a call we had a little bit earlier anthony that i would say you're about to get this job where you're making 75 000 a year you need to pretend like you're not yes you need to pretend like you're making 25 000 a year and because if not it's gonna be oh my gosh

this new big exciting amount of money oh i can live a little more comfortably i can slow down on my debt snowball or my student loans or like anthony said need this car and there is some you do need a car at some point and so that's why you need to stay serious live on way less than you make have that margin to take all that extra towards your student loan towards

the car whenever you need it and then after that you can get a little bit more comfortable after you get your savings up and all that kind of stuff but i just don't want you to take your foot off the gas because you've got a lot more money than you're used to having which will be easy to do so keep that intensity even though you're making more money now absolutely matt

and man and listen man you're doing things right yeah you're 21 years old making about 70 75 000 you know the average income in america right now is right around 48 to 54 000 depending on what part you're in so you're ahead of the average person in america so now let's go ahead and get strategic let's go ahead and think about what can we do to really set yourself up to be successful down

the road and that is pay off all your debt get a fully funded emergency fund and so you do live in new york so i know the prices up there are a little bit more expensive so you're going to be a little creative but here's the main thing chris this is what i tell everyone especially young people um you know when they're so young and

when they are ahead of the game a little bit get a clear why get a clear vision

and if you get a clear why a clearer vision then it's going to be very easy for you to do the things that you have to do to be successful but if you don't have a clear why clear vision then you'll have those kind of questions well should i do this should i do that but when you have a clear why it there's a clear answer that you need to take to get to your why not that but that clear why is going to help you avoid the short-term temporary distractions

of the bag or whatever apparently i'm the old people because you're like a bag or more money i was like what does a bag mean i guess i'm in the old look all the young people are laughing i'm like i'm learning things from ao today learning things anyway that y will help you resist those distractions and stay focused i forgot i am on the ramsay show i'm not at the table with anthony o'neil i need to lord jesus i'm sorry y'all the bag means money [Laughter]

i'm sorry james i'm sorry kelly i'm sorry this is the ramsey show

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have you ever wondered if an online will is right for you do you need a trust or a mirror wheel what kind of power attorneys do you actually need you hear me say everyone needs a will and i seriously mean this my cousin just

passed away a couple of weeks ago and she had a very detailed will and life insurance in place and it was so peaceful for the family but i get a lot of questions asking if a simple online will is right for someone specific situation so with your question in mind our team decided to build a quiz that's right a quiz and this quiz gives you custom results based on

if you're you are married or single where you live and even the size of your estate it helps you understand exactly what you need for your specific situation so i want you to take the quiz to find out what you need to protect your family and your wishes and you know what your loved ones text the word quiz two three

three seven eight nine will also text you back a promo code for twenty percent off your wheel so again text the word quiz q u i z two three three

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you will think uh me christy dave

our team later because i'm telling you chris when we lost my cousin about actually about three weeks ago um it was

it was hard uh for our family during that time and it still is hard for us but to to see that she had her will in place and to see that she had her life insurance in place and to see that she had the correct powers of attorney in place as well which couldn't use the power's attorney then but she had the right people on the account to get to

it we were able to mourn with peace not more with stress yeah i think probably the number one reason i would guess that people don't do it is because they just don't want to face it they don't want to think about it they never get around to it it's not fun i understand that but gosh the peace of mind once you do it and and we've made

it so easy on people to be able to do this the peace of mind you have knowing that that's all okay like i i had surgery in november and of course leading up to surgery um i just want to make sure everything's in place just in case anything wrong you know and it's like dave we've got everything in place and so it's just it's just gives you

the peace of mind and also gives your family the peace of mind so it's just uh great advice oh man all right text word quiz quiz 23789 and your family will be very grateful because when you have that stuff in mind what you're telling your family is i love you you know that's what you're saying i love you and thank you and i'll see you soon uh

let's go out to indianapolis and talk to luke luke good afternoon uh how can christy and i help hey good afternoon to both of you as always thank you for the help you provide yeah yeah what's going on so yeah so at my church i i lead a group and we're actually going through fbu and uh this past weekend we're talking about baby step three three to six weeks

and actually tomorrow three six months and tomorrow uh we will be debt free tomorrow we're paying off event congratulations you're excited right oh yeah because that's tomorrow it's not today okay now

my big question my wife and i uh other people in the group have the same question three versus six months so we played the clip in the video you know based on a single family a single income family or how reliable so if i can give you my circumstances i i'd really appreciate you helping me out three versus six months yeah yeah yeah um so i'm retired military 20 years

so i have retirement day that's never going to go away i have disability from the military that's not going to go away okay and i'm a school teacher okay school teacher pay of course can go away my wife she uh we homeschool we have seven daughters

yeah and i'm watching to play out the window right now it's amazing a lot of estrogen yeah and and so um

while we are a single family income i am the sole person at the same time the military and the disability comes out to about 46 000 a year and my pay

for being a teacher is about 45 000. so

it's kind of funny i get paid more for doing nothing now than i get paid for teaching but uh you know but we have seven kids so even though some of the income is reliable you know more kids you you have more events could happen that you need to dig in more expensive that emergency but the sooner that we can get past baby step three i mean baby says four five and six i've got a lot of college to start saving up for for these kids yeah yeah so i i don't want to put a lot of cash in savings or money market that's i don't need to yeah yeah so i'm looking for advice yeah yeah so luke what's your uh guaranteed annual income right now uh if i were to quit or get fired from teaching my guaranteed income from the military and disability is 45 46 000.

but there's not there's no indication that anything's wrong with the teaching right like that's been stable up to this point that's a hypothetical i just want to clarify this not only to the hypothetical i finished my grad degree in educational leadership i i'm i'm thinking about being a principal that which would of course come with the pay raise yeah so that's that's as far as we know that's a steady stable job yes yeah okay so if you're going to combine everything then um we're looking at 92 or 93 000.

000 yeah so you're good with no debt um you're perfectly fine with just three months man yeah i would i would just jump into and the reason we give people a range even when you're talking about finances that is mathematical and formula based and there are steps and principles there's always going to be a range and comfort level there are going to be some people that they will not sleep at night unless

they have six months just because that's their comfort level even if all the numbers add up fine and there's other people that are like i feel pretty good with three months i want to go ahead and get that money going into college fund so the range is really for you to customize that aspect of it to your comfort level and so if you and your wife and have a conversation

you feel good about your steady income and you feel good at three months and or three months worth of expenses and you want to start to put that money towards colleges because it's a very valid reason to want to go ahead and do that i think that's totally fine i think there's just a little bit of room for customization within that range absolutely i mean i totally agree with christy

we want you to choose um now if you would have called in and say hey i'm on a commission-based job i don't have any savings i still have debt which way you don't have debit until you pay off all your debt but if you didn't have something stable and situated then yeah we may say hey you know go ahead and get six months because you're not as stable with your income

but with you you're stable luke you have good some good income you're out of debt yes set aside three months and going ahead and jump over to baby steps four uh through six right now so i would definitely do that but thank you so much for for uh doing the class and and i before you go like i'm curious uh throughout your debt-free journey what was the hardest part of your journey

so i was actually going to say that for everyone that's listening and hasn't taken the plunge um starting that one thousand dollars there is a mental leap that you have to take it's just a mental game and if you're not willing to take that you're not all in and you just go ish well just don't do it yet wait till next year when you're ready so making that first leap and saying we're in it to win it um and not going ish the first the first

step the first step that's right yeah that's good good advice good advice for money or anything just commit you know what uh uh i think

it's seth godin has a great quote he says if you wait until you have success to commit you'll have neither you need

to commit to this thing whether it's the baby steps or your business or whatever you need to commit and then

you'll have success you will not have success if you halfway tiptoe ish your way through you'll never have either so let's stay right there chrissy let's let's turn on christy's teaching head what if someone said okay i want to commit i know i need to do this but like what are the first let's say two things that they need to do to actually commit to the process to

the journey so you know one of the things we talk a lot around here is action i tell people all the time it's not the thought that counts i don't know who came up with that no one cares what you thought about doing no one's bragging about what your husband thought about getting you for your anniversary no one's posting on facebook about what your kids thought about earning on their report cards it's what

you do that counts but what's interesting is if you take a tiny baby step literally a baby step in anything not just financial baby steps but that's why we broke it down this way if you take a tiny baby step it builds your confidence and it fuels

your momentum to take the second tiny baby step and the 30 tiny baby step and so on you look up one day and you've built the business you've lost the way you've gotten out of debt you've done the thing but it didn't happen overnight it happened one tiny baby step at a time but it all started with taking a step it's that step that moves it's the

first domino yes then the second is easier the third is easier you start to get some adrenaline some endorphins some reward from your hard work some payoff you cut off cut up the credit card you lose the weight you whatever that thing is you get your first sale you're like oh my gosh i'm doing this yes research shows anthony that the most motivating thing to people male female any age does not

matter the most motivating thing to human beings from a psychological perspective is not money it's not rewards it's not uh recognition it's seeing progress seeing the scale to go down seeing the bank account go up you see progress you want to do more of that so make some progress i told you see a teacher y'all chrissy wright ladies and gentlemen yes yes yes oh man this has been a great

hour thank you chrissy thank you james thank you kelly uh hey you guys we'll be right back this is the ramsay show

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so

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me as number one national bestselling author and also host of the very popular the christy wright show that

you can see on youtube and on podcasts and so we're here to take your phone calls by anything if you're a lady want to start a business give christy wright a call if you're a lady you want to figure out how to go after your dreams and your purpose give christy a call you want to learn i was about to say something i was about to say something

i was about to say it again

if you want to get a bag no no no no no

if you want if you want to make some money if you want to learn how to get your money right and for the the hip hop culture if you want to learn how to secure a bag give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five uh triple eight eight two five five two two five and you can hit chrissy or myself up on social media christy christy b wright um

and anthony at anthony o'neil let's go out to uh phoenix christie and talk to a barbara good afternoon barbara how can christy and i help hi um i have an invention and i'm trying

to figure out the steps i need to take to make that happen and protect myself oh what's your invention barbara are we allowed to know or is it a secret well you know i'm not gonna say exactly it's a cleaner product i have a cleaning service okay so it's something that i've looked at doing because i've used different things you know to to do this and um

so i have something i think will work better than what anybody else has cool that's awesome so when you say you have this i'm guessing you already have a prototype or a sample that you created on your own or you need to get that made well yes

and yes um i have part of it and i need to

make a it will require a handle so i need to i have an idea in my head of how i want the handle to be because of how i want the product to work but i i don't know do i

go to an engineer do i go to a lawyer first do i what do i do because i don't want somebody to be able to feel my idea you know i know i'm going to have to have a patent on it yeah yeah

yeah well i would say i would say this when you are kind of uh just in those first early stages of exploring and research research and development you're kind of getting prototypes you're asking questions you're refining your idea i genuinely would not worry about someone stealing it because you're so under the radar you're not posting this all over the world you're not broadcasting it you're just discreetly going to some different vendors uh seeing who

you know whether it's a company a manufacturing company that makes a prototype a mold uh you know plastic molds you got to look into some of the cost and what's the most efficient way to do it i would encourage you to find the

um simplest smallest way to start

because if when you're looking at molds for example if it's a plastic based uh handle that you know whatever your design is that can get really pricey in terms of upfront costs and i don't want you to do that until you prove the concept and get some sales in but what you can do is you can just start to dig around a little bit i would say that look in your area in phoenix

first search locally because there's something so invaluable to going in person to the manufacturing plant to shaking hands with the people that are running it to seeing what their options are how they work behind the scenes behind the curtain versus dealing with an online vendor you're gonna have a lot more options online but gosh you just could also make some mistakes and lose some money in translation even

if you did pick someone online i would i would go travel to where they're located to see where that where and how they want to look for these companies that manufacturers handles yeah that's what you're looking for the other thing i would i would do some digging is and this is uh this is a very common best practice in business don't feel like you're doing anything shady

you can ask other companies that are doing something similar that are manufacturing their own similar products maybe it's not a cleaning handle but it's a different type of handle or maybe it's a different type of product in a different industry and just say hey how'd you do this who'd you talk to do you know of anybody just ask around and that is a perfectly normal thing to do in business a lot of people will be willing to share resources contacts company names hey i've got a guy over here

he may not be the guy but he's got someone over here whatever the thing is you're just going to do some scrappy digging research and i would say that even when you find an option to manufacture your handle

you want to get three different samples from three different vendors you want to get three different quotes compare costs compare commitment um and that

type of thing before you make your decision and then and only then barbara once you have got it locked in you're like i want to go with this company here's how many we're going to manufacture here's how much it's going to cost here's what all the logistics of fulfillment is once you do that

then i would get serious before you maybe sign with them then i would get serious about a patent and and you don't need a patent attorney you can go to uspto.gov

that's united states patent and trademark office.gov and you can uh file for a patent yourself it's a little it's a little bit of you know maybe two thousand dollars you can do it yourself you don't need to pay all the thousands of dollars and attorneys fees to do that for you so you do that then but first let's figure out your idea and concept and then you're ready to do

the paperwork side of it but that's awesome i think that's i think that's really cool and i think you should do it i can't wait to hear how it goes that's really cool wow listen that's why i said give us a call we got we got the she's the one right tell her how to do it tell her how to save some money still pursue her dreams

but here's here's the first steps yeah that's why you know it can be intimidating when you have an idea because you're like well i've got this awesome idea how do i bring it bring it into action those first steps can be a little a little intimidating but you can do it absolutely absolutely uh max is in philadelphia uh good afternoon man how can uh christy and i help hey thank

you so much for taking my call really appreciate it yeah go ahead real quick we got about two minutes so uh good to your question so um yeah i'm on baby step two um i am trying to figure out ways to increase my shovel to fill this mess that i've made in um i just uh so i got a 5k increase for a new position at work within

the last couple weeks and i just found out that i got a little over five thousand dollar bonus for the year okay um i have a pretty unique ability

to play piano and sing on the side okay and i'm

wondering whether it's acceptable to sort of put some money into that whether it's you know i've been thinking about getting this piano shell that sort of mimics a grand piano to throw that tip chart kind of right in people's faces uh for those kind of request songs or you know

i'm kind of feeling guilty about even the idea of putting a pause in the baby baby steps um i also have to get into some sort of car to be able to get to those gigs which i don't have right now how much debt do you have right now uh max so i have 13 in about so it's an

old car loan uh that isn't around anymore due to an accident so i should be getting some settlement money at some point okay i i have no idea when though but uh and then uh like 250 thousand dollars in student loans yeah yeah yeah i'll tell you real quick max you don't need to put any money from your bonus into your side gig if you're in a different type of business like you're a fitness coach

and you don't have equipment to do what you need to do i'd say yeah you don't need it for what you do you're able to do what you do on the side without taking any money just get a bigger tip jar from like walmart and just stick it in their face on top of the piano the things that i'm hearing don't sound necessary they sound nice but not necessary

so put that money on your on your debt don't worry about you don't need that to do what you do yeah man i agree i totally agree with chrissy there's no need to spend any extra money or anything you need to put all the money uh towards your debt because you need financial freedom you don't need anything extra for your business now i do want you to consider keep that side gig

so you can keep some money generating people towards your debt but don't spend any more money into that all right get out of debt keep the bag this is the

ramsay show

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what makes our show unique is that we genuinely care about our listeners we're intentional about choosing the best advertisers to recommend blinds.com is no exception they offer high quality window treatments at unbelievable prices and they make it simple to shop blinds shades and interior shutters with easy online ordering free shipping and a guaranteed perfect fit go to blinds.com and take advantage of this week's special savings

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so [Music]

monique is in san antonio texas with

a great question for christy monique how

can christina help hi y'all it's an honor to

be on your show i've been listening to dave and everyone for years um i have a question for christy i have read ken coleman's proximity principle and i just started your book christy business boutique awesome and um i'm just at the beginning

and kind of it's i feel like god's been slapping in my face i've prayed about it i've lived the corporate life forever and i know there's so much more out there for me i have a chronic illness i do live with multiple sclerosis i've had it for about seven years or so and i want to share with not just other people with multiple sclerosis but anybody with a chronic illness

the importance of health and fitness and a positive attitude i think goes a long way too because i'm open about it but there's people that don't know and when people find out i have this they're like i would have never guessed that monique and how do you do it because i know somebody that has it and they don't they just kind of have such a bad attitude

i don't want to do anything so i've i want to start a blog well i have my website already i purchased that i don't know and i want to go into fitness training for people with disabilities and i just i don't know if this is something that could potentially become a career or even how to start i've seen all these like on facebook and everywhere oh pay x amount 100

and we'll teach you how to blog and earn money and i just don't know if this is something solely because i've seen in your book you've said it all you need is social media and you can start a whole new career i guess i'm still kind of how do i go about doing this and is this a idea that maybe could go somewhere

um it's kind of what i'm reaching out to you for christy yeah absolutely well first let me ask you a really basic question do you like to write i do

and i love telling my story because i want to help people because i feel like there's so much that people don't know about the illness and what's available to them out there from everything to assistance with drugs and do you need these certain medications or not yeah i feel like there's so much i've learned in my time and um the power of a positive attitude and how to help people

so that's where i'm at and i do love to talk and write about it okay well here the reason i asked is because you definitely have a message and you definitely have people you want to help with it so that is clear where i want to challenge you a little bit is blogging isn't your only way to do that here's what i hear and i'm just and you're just on

the phone with me monique i hear such expressiveness in your voice that i would be willing to bet you'd be good on camera you would be good on a podcast you would be good on a youtube channel now i'm not saying you have to do that but the reason i'm challenging you there is making money through blogging is very similar to making money through podcasting or youtubing

so you really get to pick what is your medium to share your message and maybe you do multiple ones i do multiple ones but you want to start with one you want to start with one and get good at it to get your message out what's cool is when you start to help people through that medium then you're going to learn

what messages are resonating what information people need and you can always add branches on to how you do that now here's the deal making money through blogging or youtube or podcasting or anything like that is a slow process if you don't have a product product or service to sell you're selling advertising or sponsorships or affiliate marketing you've got to have eyeballs ears clicks to be able to monetize it if

you're talking about just monetizing the blog itself or the podcast itself a better way to approach it is i'm going to look at this as a marketing channel for anthony and i we don't make very much money for our company or ourselves through our podcast show where the money comes in is the back end when we talk about oh by the way i have a devotional living true 40 days to get back to

you or i have a book business boutique or anthony has a book debt-free degree when we talk about these additional resources that people buy that's where the revenue stream is but the the podcast the show

the blog that's the it's more of a marketing megaphone as an example so you can approach it either way you can do both you can have affiliates and sponsorships and we have that as well but that's not going to be the bulk of your revenue unless you just have a massive following which when you're starting you don't so right what i want to challenge you to do as a starting point is think about which sounds the most fun to you being on camera through youtube being on a podcast or

writing and you like i said you can always add them in later but man if people are saying to you monique i never would have known that you struggle with this then visually they see something in you that inspires them and i don't think

that comes through in a blog i just want to challenge you there you're going to be able to possibly amaze people inspire people help people more when they see your presentation on camera or hear the expressiveness in your voice on a podcast and they go oh my gosh she struggles with ms i would never would have known and and make that much more of an impact so

i just want to challenge you there you there's no right or wrong you do what's right for you but then begin to think about what's the revenue stream um in addition to is it a course is it

coaching is it um you know some other type of consulting is there some other uh backend revenue stream that's going to make it more profitable for you faster than just waiting on eyeballs to come and monetizing those to advertisers so i just want you to think about that the revenue side but also think of the medium but i definitely think you should do it when you start to dip your toe in you'll start to learn more about what

you like and what works and you want to do more of that great question wow man that was an amazing question this is fine this is this is i love it i love it man let's keep the conversation going let's go out to cincinnati have a conversation here with allison good afternoon alison how can christy and i help hi are you there yes what's up okay

um so my husband and i are trying to decide we're in baby step 3b

um and saving for a house what our monthly payment should be because we make about eight thousand dollars a month okay so that would be the twenty-five percent for two thousand however we have a one-year-old and a three-year-old in full-time daycare and that's a pretty big cost it's about 20 a month okay so should we subtract that from the 8 000 to come up with the monthly mortgage payment i mean i think for you at this present time now do you have no debt right

correct okay and you have a fully funded emergency fund correct yeah all right i just want to make sure that we're super clear on that um so i think for me the bear max not the bear max but the max you can go to is two thousand dollars that's going to be 25 of your take-home pay and so if you want to go down lower than two thousand dollars by all means do that

if you feel as if you will be a little bit more it will it will be a little bit more comfortable for you and your family um but i firmly believe that two

thousand dollars is a great mortgage right uh but then at the same time how can we maybe cut out on some other some other expenses so that we can live in a comfortable house but if you wanna go down to fifteen hundred dollars a month totally great it goes back to what we were talking about earlier anthony where it's like there's a there's a comfort level that

you get to have the discernment to decide what are we comfortable with i'll tell you for matt and i as we have made more money over the last 10 years we have not upgraded our home and lifestyle we will at some point but we haven't and so we have more margin and that margin is peace of mind when my son went in the hospital a few years ago peace of mind there's no even with an emergency peace of mind

and so i will say that allison if you're even a little bit concerned about you don't have to go up to the limit that's a rule of thumb absolutely you can buy a home that's a little bit less than that still meets what you want in a home but you don't have to max it out just because you quote unquote can because it's the formula again use your discernment

and your comfort level and if you know like hey i'd feel better having a little bit more margin and wiggle room with two young kids which are highly unpredictable then by all means feel free to do that i think you need to do what's right for you absolutely i mean absolutely what does your husband think alison

we we go back and forth every day yeah

yeah i definitely i i definitely don't i definitely agree with chrissy just sit down with your husband and you all figure out what's comfortable for you just don't go above two thousand dollars but if you're saying hey let's just stick around 1250 a month hey that is that is great i mean we we want you to be comfortable uh we don't want you living paycheck to paycheck

we want you to have freedom we want you to have peace um but then at the same time i'm not just looking at my mortgage payment too chrissy i'm looking at everything though you know where can i cut out on some things where can i cut off on daycare a little bit where can i find maybe i want to say a cheaper daycare but like a daycare that may be still good

but even is within my budget yeah and the other thing that's so interesting too about margin especially when you're in this baby step and this is kind of what you're working towards if you're able to be in a home you like and have that margin then when things come up you cash flow easier you're not having to save for 10 months for an expense it comes quicker

because man you've got so much margin to put at it it just it makes a big difference it really does it really does well y'all i'm excited because coming up next on the next segment we got two young people on the debt free stage that's right so you all definitely want to come back after this tell your mama tell your daddy get the cats get the dogs cause

we bout to have a debt free screen

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christy america i'm excited

because we have in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage two young people james and megan's

megan see i'm getting excited can't say a name right man i get excited you know uh when i see two young people on the stage um who are clearly debt free so give us the

information how much debt did you pay off we paid off 93 000 in about 25 months

93 000 in 25

months yes y'all was working and then how much was your combined household income during that time where did you start where did you finish well for the first six months we're at about forty three thousand dollars what and you went up to yeah i'm trying

to do the math here okay and we went up to about a hundred thirty thousand dollars look at you a hundred and thirty then that's

chris that's how you secure the bag

right here on the stage his bag went big

so what okay so what happened uh

from for you ought to go from 43 000 to 130 000 income yeah yeah so we got out of college and had student loan debt and all those things and so we um he was finishing up the police academy and i was working and then it took a little while to find a job so when he finally found a job we were able to keep living like we were living on one income in order to make sure that we were paying off our debt smart yeah what what do you two do i'm a

police officer and megan's a teacher amazing two amazing careers that's right thank you both serving our country that's right yes yes all right so i'm assuming that ninety three thousand dollars in student loans majority of them well it was about sixty thousand dollars in student loans okay i had the majority of that um all right uh two car notes and just a couple other

miscellaneous like three thousand oh so yeah thousand dollars in credit card debt you're just very normal that's it student loans two nice cars and some you know some other small stuff okay cool so um what happened you know what made

you all want to attack this 93 000 in student loans well i didn't think we had a problem at all we're just living day to day um and i got an invite we got to invite to attend my high school football coach

and his wife uh for dinner we met them for dinner and they were just happy they were excited they were like hey we got to tell you about this thing we paid we're paying off our debt like we're getting out of it and just to see their faces light up and for them to tell us i was like megan we we have to do something but before that um right

after we got married someone actually gave us dave ramsey's total money makeover book okay with a hundred dollars so we took the hundred dollars and we kind of tossed the book aside like we don't need that everybody does every wedding gift ever so after dan and carolyn uh invited us over for dinner we went back scrambling looking for the book but we couldn't find it we don't know who gave

it to us either so yeah so shout out to whoever gave us that book for our wedding gift but we read the book and like i just lit up i read the book in a couple hours actually i just sat down and read the whole thing and megan was on board and

yeah wait you read the whole book in a couple hours like in one two hours it was well it was like it was like six hours oh yeah no not a couple but like six hours yeah still reading the book in six hours but it takes me six weeks it usually does too but that book i just couldn't put down for some reason i was determined i was definitely determined yeah that is cool that is awesome

so i'm curious when you decided to make this commitment what was the first like few weeks like when you realized like okay we've decided and now you gotta make some sacrifices and actually take action on it that for some people between idea to action is hard talk about that kind of that stage right there yeah yeah we our budget was really jacked up the first time so everybody says yeah

we never sat down and budgeted anything we didn't know where our money was going or what was happening so it was just a mess yeah after that after we finally kind of configured what we wanted to budget for everything it got easier but it took some hard conversations letting go of certain things and just um making sure that we were doing what we needed to do to get where

we wanted to go so what would you two say is the key to

getting out of debt what's that one key uh to the millions of people

listening to your message right now um it definitely takes commitment um with anything i never went through a process before where i mean i was that committed for that

long too i mean two years it was seemed like a long time it was it was a long journey but looking back at it it went by quick to us um but definitely commitment in if i can

add a one b it would be budgeting for sure

yeah budgeting was was great yeah

that's so good um i'm gonna put you on a

spot what's your why like why did you all really really want to become debt free think about 10 years down the road like why does this matter to you two as a married couple young married couple well i'll kind of talk about my why i don't know um i was going through the police academy i wasn't making any income and megan was taking care of the entire family and we had a two-month-old son at home wow so um he

he's definitely our why my why

of why we did things i mean i don't want him to go through the process we had with student loans and other debt so because we took

the sacrifice the short sacrifice to pay off our debt he would never have to experience that again so just knowing that i mean that's amazing for me that's awesome megan yeah i think mine was really motivated by micah he we had to struggle through and make sure that our our loans are paid off but we don't want him to have to go through that um and just not have to worry about money in general yeah that's

so good who are y'all's two biggest cheerleaders uh we actually had a couple um her sister alyssa and her husband

alex they went through financial peace university with us they actually are debt free as well that's great um and dan and carolyn the couple that introduce us to the dave ramsey playing so shout out to them shout out to him

so how does it feel i mean how let me ask this question if you don't want to answer it i might totally understand but how old are you two i'm 26 and megan will be 26

next week

you're about to get fired up i know that face i know that face you get excited you're 26 years old paid off 93 000

in two years in one month

i just got to ask how does it feel to be on the end of the millennial age you know and you're debt-free you have a beautiful son like how does it feel it feels

amazing it really does i i didn't know

it was gonna feel this great until it hit us i mean i thought the entire plan was a scam i want to be honest with you then uh i mean we just saw we just started tackling in debt our debt we're like we can do this we really can i mean it feels amazing and it feels amazing to not have to work all the overtime now now so just take a break and i mean it

feels it feels amazing it does your hard work has paid off that's amazing listen man oh man i'm this is the ramsey

show so i got to be i got to be careful what i say because i'm just excited for you too you know when i see young people like yourself focused determined living with intentionality saying hey we want to be debt-free so our son can enjoy life grow up without debt and then pass that on to his kids and to their kids it started with you all that's right

you two are the legacy beginners man i just i just salute you man so clearly you two are on your way to becoming everyday millionaires so we have a copy of uh our good friend chris hogan's book everyday millionaires for you man this this is amazing is micah here he is let's get him out let's get micah on the stage you guys man james and megan paid off 93

000. in 25 months making 43

130 000 in a year

let's hear a debt free scream counted down

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wow i mean chris i mean at 26

you're older than me right christy okay we don't need to bring that up uh we don't know okay he feels a little pointed anybody i'm just saying if i'm just saying at 26 were you thinking like that no i was hitting i was realizing i had to turn something around that was the beginning of my journey not the end of it for sure that for sure that's awesome and christie is older to me hey this is the ramsay's

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show and sitting in today is christy wright number one national bestselling author and anthony o'neil and uh i've written a book once or twice

but man we are here to take your phone calls and to really have a great time we love laughing uh we love um just talking and helping and serving people and so we're gonna keep it going on the phone lines uh chrissy let's have a conversation with alex out in tampa florida good afternoon alex how can christy and i help hey y'all how's it going here uh a long time less than our first time caller over here all right how can we help

i got a question for you all uh we are a first time home buyer and uh the real estate market down here in north florida is hot and just like it everywhere everywhere else in the us and uh just wanted to get your opinion on as a first time home buyer here and um if we should still continue the rent or if we should go ahead and pull the trigger and uh buy or uh build right now

um or wait till the summer or wait till you know no one can come to the market but i was just curious on what your thoughts were on that and says this is the highest the market's ever been with uh with the lowest inventory cool great great great give me a little bit about yourself you know how much are you out of debt uh yeah yeah we are

completely out of debt it's gonna be uh my fiance uh courtney and i okay uh

we uh we have about 180 uh saved up

we're completely out of debt okay 108.

um is that 180k on top of your savings or is that total 180 000.

uh that's a total of a 180 a thousand dollars saved between the two of us that's amazing that's real i mean you you you two are killing the game all right so yeah um so i like that so do you two

plan on staying in florida once you two get married uh yeah so we're getting married here in a few months and uh we'll be uh we'll be the uh in the tampa

area looking for a uh home cool great well here's my suggestion you clearly have the money okay um i'm not going to put i'm not going to spend 180 000 to put down on a home i'm going to look at what what will it take to have at least three to six months of your emergencies inside of there if you two have a stable income a stable job uh

then i would definitely go ahead and just keep it down to maybe uh just three months uh but if you're like in freelance uh entrepreneurship type stuff i would go ahead and set aside six months and so you'll have at least 100 000 put into a home so generally what what what we tend to say is um wait one year after you get married so you and your wife together can go around looking

and see what you know what you all like get used to living with each other and i still like that for you too even though you all are already in tampa and you're going to stay in tampa but i do believe that you should go in ahead and just maybe save up a little bit more and just spend at least give yourself six months in the same house learning each other learning what

you like learning okay we need this now since we understand how to live with each other uh so i would suggest right uh when are y'all getting married alex yeah we're getting married in september oh congratulations well it's interesting too because what's so cool about your position um financially especially is you have options so if something

happened to come on the market that's just the most perfect house in the whole world and you prayed about it you feel like god is this is the thing then you're in a position to buy it if you wanted to but i could not agree with anthony moore because i will tell you totally transparent and this is not talking behind matt's back but matt and i would both agree

the first marriage first year of marriage was hard everyone talks about the newlywed phase and it is fun but you are bringing your own set of expectations to even just living in a house with someone of how they grew up and you grew up and who's doing what dishes and chores and and so what's so cool is if you add the extra stress of buying a home decorating a home uh owning a home

and all the maintenance that goes into that on top of that first year it will add to your stress now it's not that you can't do it but i agree with anthony i think if you babystep that and you said okay first step let's just get used to living together as newlyweds with less pressure and the landlord can take care of the maintenance second step let's buy a home

and and take on that new level of challenge together i think it's just going to spread it out make it a little bit more enjoyable for you it's not like you have to but man i think that's the maybe the smarter option yeah great question alex and congrats on yeah congratulations your wife doing that hey stay on the line since you two are getting married i'm gonna have kelly give

you a free year subscription to um ramsay plus and so because you all are gonna be starting off in baby steps four through six and so i definitely would love to uh just sew into y'all's marriage because i i'm praying that it's going to be fruitful and you all will be married for years and years and years and years and years until both of you all go home to see

the lord so that's alone forever hey blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer for custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's

question comes from dylan in new york um i've been a part of i've been a part-time freelance proof reader for a little over two years now i'm ready to expand my business but there are only so many hours in a day christy i currently turn down about two projects a month because i don't have time to do them i'm thinking about subcontracting out the projects i don't have time for

but i'm not sure how i would structure their pay or if it's morally okay to accept work from a client and then give it to someone else to do though i would review every job to make sure it's highly quality high quality what do you think christy two things super simple number one raise your prices period raise your prices if the demand is higher than the supply

the supply being the hours you have in a day it is time to raise your prices and then that is just that's showing you what you're able to do at this time it's a great time to raise your prices second thing is when you talk about is it morally okay to accept work from a client and then give it to someone else do that is what business is

when you employ team members so of course it's morally okay the only thing that you might want to do just for your own peace of mind and to be fully up front with the client is to let them know that your subcontractor your team member however you want to uh phrase it and structure that that person's employment with you uh you should be upfront that they're going to do

it and you let them know like hey i'm going to pass this off to so and so they're going to but i'm going to supervise it i'm going to make sure the quality of work when it comes to that you need to think through the pay so you're going to build in to the the cost for the client

the amount that you're going to pay the subcontractor the team member to do it and the amount of money that you're going to make off the top for running the business because you're running a business now and you're employing people so you can do either you can raise your prices or subcontract it out and manage that like a business or you can do both and uh all of them are good ideas

and that's exactly what you should be doing when your business is expanding and the demand is growing great question oh man that's such a real good question um you know it's so funny because when you was answering the question christy i was like absolutely man people do this every single time all the time every single day yeah

that's right i call one company yeah we're going to send out a contractor but i called you well they work for us that's right so there's nothing wrong with it just make sure that whoever is representing you is doing a great job at what they're doing so this is what's your brand on it your name on it your reputation absolutely hey you guys are you feeling um stuck with your money uh like you've never you'll never get out of debt or save enough uh for

the future listen it doesn't have to be that way you can make progress with your money and faster than you think but the only way to make it happen is with a budget again we just heard the debt-free couple say you gotta get on the b word a budget that's why you need ramsey plus membership you'll get access to the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app you'll be able to plan out every dollar you'll spend

and save before the month begins connect your budget to your bank so you can never miss any transactions and get custom budget reports that shows you where you can find more

money and put towards your goals when you budget and get intentional with your money you will make progress

let me say that one more time when you budget when you have a vision for your money and get intentional with your money

you will make progress and progress very fast and you can start budgeting for free today to start your free trial of ramsey plus go to daveramsey.com that's daveramsey.com

i can't tell you how much i love budgeting i didn't like it at first chris it would be real really oh i didn't like it i didn't like it because i i was able to see where i was spending the majority of my money and i didn't like looking at myself see i like i'm the control freak i like the control like oh i get to just move

these numbers around and control it and see it and it's like a game i love it i'm glad that you loved it i didn't like it but now i do love it

well that's a wrap for this hour man it's been fun christy james kelly america thank you so much this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neil host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is number one national best-selling author christy wright and host of the christy wright show and author of the most recent book um living true yeah i'm so excited about

that christy this book is fire so this is so fun because did you know i don't know if you knew this ao okay this is the very first devotional our company's ever put out you know i just love to get away with stuff and try i just i love to push the boundaries a little bit i see you listen a couple years ago i just really felt a desire

and a call to write a devotional and here's the thing this is something i have felt and this is something i've heard from for over a decade of working with women i remember speaking at one of my first speaking events at purdue university in 2010 and a woman walked up to me after i spoke on life balance and she said i just feel like i've lost myself wow

and i've heard those words and it's not just women but i think women uniquely experience that whether it's in motherhood different seasons of life different jobs or careers you feel like you lose yourself in your own life and you're going where am i wow in my own life and so i really felt like god was calling me to tackle this topic so we released it just a couple months ago it's called living true 40 days to get back to

you and what's cool about 40 days and you know this because you're a church guy but 40 is a very biblical number and it's also not intimidating for a busy woman that wants to read it because even even not just 365 days but 100 days that's that's a big commitment for someone who's super busy but 40 days to get back to you and i walk through four sections who god is who

you are where you are in your season of life and where you're going and what god says about each of those we spend 10 days on each of them and ao it's been really cool and you know this when you put something new out in the world you're excited about it but it feels a little bit vulnerable and you're like i don't know is this going to connect is

this going to do what i want it to do and it is just blowing up in terms of reviews and and the the stories of people spending time with god or god speaking to them on just what they needed here on just that day which by the way is what god does that's not what christie wrote does that's what god does and the holy spirit but it has been cool to see how god is using that to help women get back to themselves

and get back to who they were created to be man listen listen you guys i need you to get this book um and for the brothers get the book for your wife oh mother's day is coming up oh mother's day is coming up you know get the book for your mother get the book for your wife get the book for your girlfriends and you know i want

you to live true you know what i was thinking about doing so 40 40 such a biblical number with the uh 40 days it rained 40 days jesus was tempted in the wilderness you know another 40 days between the resurrection and the ascension so i think i'm going to start on monday april 5th the day after easter and i think i'm going to walk through this on instagram with people for those 40 days

when jesus appears i mean i know it's symbolic because it's yesterday but wouldn't that be cool i think i'm gonna do that absolutely if you follow me on instagram at christybright we're gonna walk through that so get your copy so you can join us for those 40 days go to chrissyright.com you guys go to chrissyright.com get get a book so that when she launches this on her instagram um

you can follow her you can connect with her on instagram at christybewright again that's christy b wright uh so that way you can be a part of this get the book get on there because i'm telling you right now christy wright got energy so you're not gonna be bored you're not gonna fall asleep or lazy or slowing down she's gonna come with the energy and so and

you know what if it comes about living true if you have any questions about living true about balance life balance uh give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we have another hour with you all today four more segments or actually three more segments after this so we are here to answer your question about uh money i've been teaching uh the world today about what

the definition of securing the bag so security that's been a theme of today's show yeah you know sorry about getting it getting a check making money and so if you have a question about you know how to get more money how to get out of debt how to secure the bag give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five uh daniel's with us in uh jackson mississippi uh daniel good afternoon how can uh chrissy

and i help absolutely thank

y'all for letting me come on and uh i'll try to make this pretty brief my question is i am currently working through the steps and i'm about a month away from

getting baby step three and moving into four okay um and so basically i have

a positive cash flow of about three thousand dollars a month okay and uh my current financial advisor

has gone more the route of uh

encouraging heavy investment in 401k and

raw okay basically to the point where i'm not paying extra on my mortgage and i know um the the advice i've gotten so far is that uh to do it the way that you do 15 and

then pay down your house uh is some people say safe money or incredibly conservative um but can you help me understand a bit better the benefits of going that 15 route and paying down the home early yeah yeah so let me ask you this question how much is your your um financial advisor telling you to invest yeah so he's essentially uh 40

of my uh gross income so

uh he is out of that 3 000

he's encouraging me to invest 21.25 a

month and how do you listen up

i'm sorry i say again i mean and how do you live off of that right yeah yeah no i agree and so here's the thing i agree and go ahead what we teach daniel is we want you to live comfortable we want you to live below your means um how old are you if you don't mind me asking 21.

okay 29 so you're a young guy okay you're young like christy and i and so we have no problem with you uh

i have no problem with you even being aggressive with your investing but what i want you to do is first go ahead and attack the 15 and then go ahead and pay off your mortgage while you're doing that now once you pay off your mortgage and you're completely debt free baby step number seven is build wealth and give so if you want to go back and up your investments

you have that option you can do that if you want to go out there and start purchasing some land start purchasing some real estate you can do that but right now the main thing is start investing and at the 15

minimum and then get very aggressive with paying off your mortgage so that way you could be 100 debt free going into maybe your late 30s and your early 40s and if you and if you're married at that time your spouse decided hey let's invest some more over here or let's do this with real estate or let's open up this business by all means you have the right to do that

because you're in the the step that requires you or will not requires you but it's the step to build wealth and give but right now you're young i would rather you focus on paying off debt because i want financial freedom um i want bondage off of you and and so that's what i would really really focus on uh brother uh because yeah so i what i would suggest is to

interview another financial advisor i would go to smartvestorpro.com go to daveramsey.com look up one of our smart investors don't leave your financial advisor yet but interview one of ours uh you'll get about five phone calls from five solid people who i fully endorse christy fully endorsed stay fully endorsed and just have a conversation with them and get get some other advice because again i want you to grow doing

this process i want you to build wealth during this process but at the same time once you get the right wisdom below in this journey and yeah and it's a marathon daniel it's a marathon not a sprint you want to enjoy your life along the way you want to be conservative but you want to enjoy your life not have you know nothing to live on and enjoy

it just because you're you're investing so much oh yeah man yeah 40 it's a great question i mean it's good that he's asking that's cool gotta ask it this is the ramsay show

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taxes christy nobody wants to do them

but you know what we all have to do them

but with ramsey smart tax you finally have an easy money smart way to foul online the other

software out there it's not what it's cracked up to be let me just be 100 with you all right they say it's free but no turbo tax is

not free for the vast majority of people who use it they sign up racket up the price and suddenly free turns into forty dollars sixty dollars even up to a hundred and twenty dollars which is ridiculous but you know what here ramsay solutions we love our people and we don't jack you around like that the cost to file a federal return with ramsey smart tax is crystal clear 17 or 37 not 60 not 120

and depending on the level of support you need plus 32 dollars if you have to file state taxes and some

folks don't just like tennessee but listen

it's not just about cost our technology and support we'll go toe-to-toe with turbo any day of the week and we will never let me say this again we will never leverage your financial situation to sell you credit cards and ridiculous loans like a lot of these young people not young people like a lot of these other companies do sign up for smart tax uh for free and take a look around the software you won't pay

a thing till you are confident you've got your taxes right and you're ready to click file so

take out your phones right now actually you should have your phones out right now if you're driving don't drive in text i want you to text the word tax tax 233789

that's tax tax 233789

let me tell you something people use tax software thinking these companies have their best interest at heart and they don't yeah and that's why they are selling you all these credit cards and all these ridiculous things and you go to it and you think oh well they're experts they're financial experts they know taxes i can trust them i should get this credit card and man people are making some mistakes with their whole financial future

because of that they're leading them astray that's why it's so important to use a company you trust that's why we want to help you with this yes yes i'm telling you right now um you know i actually fouled through my account but i mean if i didn't have one i would definitely be using this yeah you know because i mean it's clear i might have actually walked through

it myself um even on my youtube shows show people how to do it and this is super clear and they ask you all the right questions to make sure that you're filing correctly and you won't have any trouble uh legally down the road that's so good and so again i want to say this again i want you to text the word tax tax 233 789 and i promise

you you'll

think ramsay solutions uh later on we're going to go out to arkansas and talk to rachel rachel good afternoon how can christy and i help good afternoon how are you guys doing well doing well thanks for calling in how can we help um so i have my

like three to six months of emergency fund and i'm just wondering um how much is good like percentage-wise

for a down payment on a house yeah yeah yeah that's a good question so what we teach here at ram solutions has baby set 3b once you get once you are out of debt once you have a fully funded emergency fund you move over to 3b and you save 10 to 20 percent to put down on a home

now rachel the ideal situation is going to pay for a cash but a lot of us are not going to pay for a cash i know i couldn't pay for mine cash unbe real right here in the ramsey show and so uh the bare minimum we say is 10 to 20 percent to put down when are you looking to purchase a home rachel um in the near future um

my roommate situation is not like ideal

and i just also don't like the fact that i just keep putting money into rent and i'm not really getting anything out of it besides short term yeah yeah yeah don't don't see and when i hear people say this like oh man i'm wasting money on rent no you're actually saving money you know because uh in the long term i get the philosophy behind why you think like that

but renting allows you to set yourself up to make the right decision to purchase the home the right way so it can be it will save you a lot of money i know a lot of people who will just do the you know the fha loan 3.5 down get into a house that they really can't afford when they go to sell it they really can't make any money off of

it because they didn't do it the right way so what we teach here is to save 10 to 20 to put down on a home you're going to finance at a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage now some people say well anthony that's a lot of money so here's the thing when it comes to 20 rachel if you can put 20 down you have 20 equity inside of your home

this is going to help you avoid a pmi private mortgage insurance all right and so if you are doing a private mortgage insurance like what most most fha loans do you're spending a lot of money that doesn't go towards your principal or interest okay and we do not want you to do that but here's the bare minimum if you put down 10 the key thing here is just make sure that your mortgage payment is less than 25 of your take-home pay

so put down that if it's 10 15 okay cool

great uh but the ideal situation would be 20 so that way you can avoid pmi sounds good i'm here oh man thank you so

much for calling in i really do appreciate it uh ryan is with us in fort wayne good afternoon ryan how can christy and i help yeah so i kind of torn on

what to do as far as um housing situation here so i'm on baby step two and we're doing really really good gazelle intensity feeling great uh snapped all of our credit cards in half uh canceled them all yeah uh should have about half my

student loans paid off by the end of this year let's go awesome yes i'm feeling great um i was very very blessed income increased last year and it's going to increase this year as well too so i got an email the other day saying that the guesstimation i guess is what i'm kind of calling it that the equity on my house has gone up just from being

there for a couple years and the equity is getting really close to how much my student loans are on the outstanding balances right now would it make sense to sell the home in the next couple years if the equity gets past it and then rent to kind of streamline baby step three or just keep going with gazelle intensity and build more equity and just be more patient that way

when it comes to baby step three you know i'll have more equity in the house and if we do sell the house we'll have that much more for emergency funds investing

et cetera et cetera man such a great question ryan and um i love the tone of your voice i hear the focus um i hear it i hear the intentionality inside of you um the fact that you're willing to ask this question about your home lets me know that that you and your family are very serious about paying off your debt so i want to commend you and celebrate you for that let's just say right now that you had no debt you had a fully funded emergency fund would you want to sell the house yeah

you will so you you're not sold on this house you don't love this house this is not love love we we do love the house the thing is we know the pro the family's probably gonna expand in the future as well too so we're gonna need more room okay um but we got into this house at a really really good price at a really really good time in a really strong housing market out here and it worked in our favor just don't know if i should just keep riding this momentum train that i'm on or uh get into baby step 3 quicker if that means getting out of debt sooner and just renting how much debt do you have real quick close to about 50.

okay yeah um i'm going to stay in the house right now same same thank you good please i was getting so nervous

yeah i'm staying in the house man i'm going to stay in the house i'ma ride it until the house can no longer fit me and my family fifty thousand dollars uh real quickly what's your household income combined between the wife and i

so we both work commission so realistically we're going to be about 130. this year if this year goes well

we'll probably be close to about 160.

yeah you could be debt free within the next you know within the next 12 to 14 15 months if you all do this

and then here's the thing that's interesting ryan sometimes when we get so motivated we get so excited we're like how can i fast track that and i get it because i'm wired the same way but what's interesting is if you're not careful you will get so excited you will make a decision that just creates a different set of problems for you you then have to save up all over again for a house you're renting

you don't like your landlord it's a headache you're moving and then you've got commissions and fees and moves it's a different headache it's not like you got rid of the problem you just had a different problem so i would say stay put keep building equity just like ao said get out of debt and then do it patiently over time absolutely that's right y'all heard christie not so good no chris no

you had it this is the ramsay show

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i just love that music that our producer aka dj is playing right there that's some good music james thank you for that sir i need you to bring you on to the table with anthony o'neil cause i like that music this is the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five chrissy

wright and myself anthony o'neil are here today to talk to you today about your life your money want to start a business uh whatever you want to do uh give us a call we can talk about relationships normally chrissy when john deloney and i on oh we get a lot of marriage and relationship and boyfriend girlfriend and should i move in questions we haven't gotten any of those

i thought that's a i bet that's a fun conversation between you and delivery oh man listen you know before the show my producer our producer james came in and said hey man you should be a little more softer when you say things you know i was like i understand i can do that if i try real real real hard and focus he was like hey you shouldn't say that

because it could come off a certain kind of way and i was like okay all right cool great great great so you know what we need to do next time we need to set it up and have people call in with faith questions because i'm doing this devo stuff right now you've got a church background like we could just we could just bring him to church ao

i feel like we could do that let's do it next time we'll do that we got another segment coming up after this if you have any faith questions um not really devo questions because faith will even to the devil but any faith questions give us a call next segment triple eight eight two five five two two five let kelly know you got a faith question maybe she'll let

you on maybe she won't she's the boss you know triple eight eight two five five two two five andy is with us in colorado springs oh good afternoon andy i see you have a question for christy talk to us what's going on hi guys it's a pleasure to to speak to you today i i recommend dave and his team everybody and tell them i'd be a millionaire three times over voted known

he existed ten years ago you and everybody else right he did really i've got um i've got a weird issue that cropped up today okay i uh i own a coffee shop in colorado springs and i got an email we have we use a um

a an app for scheduling called home base

and we received an email today that they are rolling out something really exciting for my employees they're going to be offering my employees the ability to get cash advances on their pay at no cost to me and it's wonderful for

them in case they need extra money yeah what

how many points do you have i have 19. okay here's what i'm gonna do

andy and this is gonna sound drastic but it's that important because i can hear your voice this is this is against your values period right

right yeah we're not going to use a program that's against your values period so here's what we're going to do you're going to tell your 19 employees which is absolutely something you can manage on your own even if it is just means you write checks to people for their paychecks for a couple weeks until you get a new program in place but what i would do is i would go to the leadership of that company and say i'm canceling immediately unless you take this off the table and change this policy for my employees if they will not back down then you cancel and you let your team know you send an email to your team and say hey guys i hate that this is happening we're going to go with a new program uh we had some differences in leadership and values and we're just not going to use a program you don't even have to go in the details of what it was we're not going to use a program that's uh against our values and we've done that as a company just so you know andy ramsey solutions has absolutely pulled out i mean just slammed on the emergency brake with vendors uh companies that we've used for different things the moment they try to do something that is not in line with our values there's no price that is worth it when you're running your company you're running it because you want it to be in line with your value so what i would recommend you do is first reach out to the leadership of that scheduling app try to get on a phone call and say either this is not being offered and i will consider staying with you for for you know the time being or if they will not you immediately cancel your relationship with them i don't care if you use a google doc to schedule your team members you got 19.

we're not talking about 500 people here you can manage the schedule uh just to me it is 500.

yeah i yeah i hear you but keep in mind it's temporary right it's going to be up maybe a month maybe you make their schedule by hand in an excel spreadsheet or google doc for a month and that's it and and or even it might even just be a few days till you find something there's a million options out there you just need enough time to be able to find something that's better

and that's gonna take you a few days to do that so you're buying yourself a little time with your team and just tell your team whatever their schedule is how long have they been scheduled out through like what do they know they're scheduled through the schedule two weeks in advance okay okay you're fine they're set their schedule set their schedule set we're gonna pull out of this company

and figure out a different option for you but i absolutely would not let this roll out to your team you will regret it it will keep you up at night you will start to hate yourself they are going to regret it they are going to regret it so much and there's no like consequences and they tell you we don't sell your information but you know as soon as

they start borrowing something's gonna something's gonna drop yeah this is gonna give everything in you that is like the red flag alarms going off is absolutely accurate and i want you to listen to that and i want you to go ahead even though it may feel uncomfortable to do this it feels like a knee jerk decision they're forcing you in this position and and you need to do what's best for

you your company and your team members and the best thing is to not allow this to roll out worried that i was being more of a dad than a boss

no no no no here's what's interesting here's what's interesting this is not about you what you allow or

don't allow for your team members okay i want to separate this for you really quickly what you're not going to allow is for your company to have operations that are perpendicular to your values yeah because your team members do not separate you from the scheduling company it's all you right it's all their experience of their leadership and so it's you endorsing this type of

action and you're not okay with that this is not about you being a dad i mean i don't mind giving like a i don't mind giving anybody you know an advance if they have a problem and i figure out how they're going to pay back so it doesn't hurt them and they can pay their bills but at least i have control over that this this is going to be willy-nilly it's like giving a cookie to a mouse yeah no we're not we're not going to do

it andy you got you got you're on the right track you know what you need to do you just need to follow through with it let communicate to your team members come up with the new plan they know their schedules for two weeks they're fine two weeks is plenty of time for you to get something else in place uh but nothing is worth you having your company run your your business run in a way that's perpendicular to your personal values that's why

you started your company is so you could have a company in line with your values and and you need to stick with those great question though i'm sorry that happened man that stinks great question sometimes yeah it does uh blake is with us in texas good afternoon blake uh real quick man you have about a minute and a half uh ask your question a question to christy hey how's

it going guys um i me and my

fiance are on baby step two uh and we started this about a week and a half ago uh we're down to just the vehicles and the house but you know we're putting the house back and whatnot but

i'm looking to start

my painting company back up again i had it a while back a couple years ago i started it and then i felt miserably probably because the way i handled money before i found dave ramsey and listened to what he had to say and every everyone in his his studios had to say and started taking that all in and me and my fiance have been talking about me starting it back out but i have a full-time job i work 10 to 12 hours a

day and i make about 60 000 a year where i'm at um and i need a i'm trying to figure out where at what point i can actually

stop and then start something new like that um to make it your full-time job to make

it my full-time thing without harming my family uh being my fiance and my my 10 month old child and how to make that transition smoothly

as possible totally i hear you here's the thing you're going to build it up on the side in every hour that you can nights weekends get creative take as many jobs as you can for a while it's going to feel like you're working two full-time jobs maybe even three because you are but you're gonna build up that income enough that it can support you financially that might mean getting creative with your full-time job

if there's any way you can back off of some of those hours or whatever your days and schedules look like from a logistics standpoint but the way we say it is you want to pull the boat close enough to the dock that when you step in the boat that side business it's not falling in the water so you need to build up that money

that's why i love doing a show with christy wright hey this is the ramsay

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show

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today scripture and quote comes from psalm 16 verse 11. you make known to me the path

of life in your presence there is fullness of joy at your right hand are pleasures forevermore pharaoh

mcgalladen says do not follow where the path may

lead go instead where there is no path

and leave a trail i like that create

your own journey and let people follow you well you know what we're going to get back to the phone calls and i got to say man you know christy today's been fun this is great this has just really been fun i i like doing the show with you you know we gotta do this more we got a lot of energy i love that about us i love

it i love me some christy right we're gonna go out to uh chicago illinois where it is code right now have a conversation with drivers drivers hey man is it cold out there uh it's not too bad it's kind of warming up what's the weather travis i mean drivers what's the weather man what's the temperature i'm sorry what's the temperature

um honestly i don't know for chicago

i'm a couple minutes out from there okay okay all right all right cuz you know y'all 40 here and you said that that's not too bad not for chicago weather what's going on how can we help oh my gosh um so right now

i work 40 miles away

i have to carpool with my friend to get there because currently i don't have a vehicle um i've got about 1500 saved up

but i was wondering if i should just buy a hooky or if i should finance a very very small

loan for a vehicle just so i can get

there safely and not have to worry about breaking down i kind of feel like i already know you guys answers but i just want a

reassurance well um i'm pretty sure you know the answer uh but i definitely do want to you know i i want to say this in america listen to me we have to get out of saying by a hooptie by a dave ramsey car and just start saying let's buy a reliable car that would get me from point a to point b that may not be my dream car

i believe in there there's power in what we say and if we say it's a hooptie it's going to become a hoop d and we're going to treat it like it's a hooptie and so uh drivers what i would definitely say is yes avoid student loans i get it oh man i'm scared if i buy this fifteen hundred dollar car this two thousand dollar car it's gonna break down on me

and you know what the truth of the fact is it might but so can a used car you know

any kind of used car i purchased a beautiful high-end luxury car christy uh about four months ago before i totally doing this winter storm and within not even a week of me having

a car the car broke down i had to take it back to the shop so i think for for for yourself man i would definitely go out there and look i would see if i can just sacrifice maybe another month or two to get that up to about maybe two to three thousand dollars and then look into a good reliable car honda you know a honda product a toyota product a nissan product uh by maybe like a 2 2000 maybe like a 2010 acura tl's are going

for right around uh five thousand dollars if you get in high mileage of about 150 and 150 on a honda product is is is

beautiful it's just now getting started so what i would just definitely do some research man um because i'm telling you right now you can find you a reliable car i saw a uh a honda accord with 200

000 miles on it uh chris and it was going for 3 200 and a honda accord 2010 that is a good

car that is a reliable car as long as you just keep the maintenance up on it so drivers know stay away from the debt stay away from the debt do not finance anything right uh the only reason why i asked was because like i said um i do get a carpool with my friends

and it is about 40 miles there um

but he's going to be moving soon okay

and what i wouldn't have a ride there anymore what soon um well he doesn't really know honestly but he's trying to get it within the month okay within a month all right cool so then start looking start looking now you have fifteen hundred dollars you can find something uh and just start looking you know but no i'm not going to tell you anything are there any public transportation options from where

you are are you going into the city is there anything like that uh i believe so i think there's a train but i don't know uh the scheduling for it yet because i work overnights well the only reason i'm asking is because here's what here's what i don't like anthony i don't like in anything in life when i feel like i have two bad options and and

so a car loan bad option or no

car bad option so what i would just encourage you to do is just explore all your options get super creative you still may not end up going one of those routes but it's going gonna make you feel more empowered to go i've got five options and i'm gonna choose the best option of these five options versus i've only got two i'm painting in a corner i don't like being in that position

i don't think you do either and so if you look into this and you realize okay the person i'm carpooling with it's actually going to be two months so i've got more time and oh by the way whenever i looked into the train schedule they do have a training schedule i could hop on that buys me another couple months well how much could i save in four months well maybe

i could save an extra four grand well now you're looking at a really awesome five thousand dollar car man look how your opportunities have opened up just because you explored outside the box of your two bad options it seems like right now so i would just i would write it down look at all your options what realistically are we talking about with this carpool friend what are

the terrain options public transportation options is there anyone else in your area you could carpool could you put something on your neighborhood facebook post go hey does anybody work in the city i go this way would you ever want a car pool uh just get creative get a little scrappy and that's gonna give you more options to choose from and that's always a good place to be

i love it thank you for doing it uh saying that christy uh let's oh man chris let me ask you this question in your and you're from your expertise

when people say they want to borrow money to start a business what do you tell them well i tell them no i know that comes as a huge shock to you right now here's what i'll tell you that i see when people ask this though i see one of two things either one they have been told or somewhere along the way they believe that they have to borrow money to start business yeah

and they believe that's okay because they think what's not my loan it's the businesses loan so it's not really mine i'm not taking on debt it's the business's debt and they think somehow this is separate from them and i remind them that someone has to pay those bills and that someone is you yeah so it's still your debt and it's all a bad idea so they have

this belief that the only way to start is to take out loans and take up business loans and that's okay and i always encourage them you can start small grow slow dave ramsey started this company on a card table in his living room you can start small in cash flow the second thing i see and this is this is very common as well but it's just a different angle on

it there are some people that don't really need to take out debt but because they're starting this business and it's like this vulnerable time for them they're like i'm excited i'm nervous i've got this idea let's say it's a i use a fitness coach example or someone that wants to do hair it's a salon i'm so excited but but i've got to go spend all this money buy all

this equipment you know lease a space all these things they have to do yeah they have to do it ao they say they have to do it yeah like they they can't be business and i remind them that they don't really have to do that they don't have to buy those things and more often than not they don't nine times out of ten here's what they're trying to do though

if you dig at their motivation they want

to buy something to make it real to them

they want to buy something to validate it's kind of like when i graduated college and i needed some new

suits to go interview for jobs as if i didn't have any perfectly fine interview clothes i needed a new laptop bag i didn't need that ao i had clothes that were perfectly fine to interview in but i wanted to like validate or justify i'm in the workforce and do this and i think a lot of people this vulnerable stage of starting a business they're trying to validate

it and i just remind them buying stuff for your business doesn't validate it money does come on get money in your bank account when you make a sale your business is validated if you're in your garage working on a 1985 computer it's validated when money's there and so i just try to help people bust the myths pull away the layers of the lies they're believing to help them understand what

they really need to start their business which is tenacity and money not taking out a loan or a bunch of equipment you know what chrissy off subject but you know what i needed a new suit because my first job interview was in a red suit with a purple shirt i was fired

before i even did the interview you actually don't need something merry christmas i want to thank christy i want to thank our producer james child and associate producer kelly daniel in america remember the caliber of our future our financial future will be determined by the decisions we made today you made the right one by listening to the ramsay show

[Music]

you

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## 202. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 4, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and i'm ken coleman host of the ken coleman show on the ramsey network joined by my colleague dr john deloney host of the dr john delony show on the ramsey network you see a theme yes we are a part of ramsey solutions and

that means we engage with you to help you get practical solutions to get ahead in the most important areas of your life if it's about your life we're here for you if it's about your money we're here for you if it's about your relationships if it's about your work we are here for you you're not where you want to be in your work you're not where you want to be in your relationships you're not where you want to be your money well that will be our focus

dr john delaney always good for

uh the opportunity to hang out together we we have a lot of collaboration turns out on our show a lot of people calling about similar things and when it comes to toxicity and not being happy in their work turns out there's some connections between that and and and your relationships and not being happy with you yes

with that person you see in the mirror yeah it's true it's uncomfortable yeah when you take it to work with you and you take it to your to your marriages and you take it to your parents you take it everywhere all kinds of data out there on that so john and i are gonna we're gonna talk about that one of the things that that might be fun

let's throw out some scenarios for people because we we on our shows we know where people are hurting right give me two or three scenarios people right now they're hearing us and they go huh i i need some help with that um man we

i'm getting flooded with calls from

moms and dads whose kids can't stay at home anymore yeah they've been staring at the screen for a calendar year yes and now you're watching bipartisan medical experts from across the country at a university hospital saying enough is enough is enough the downstream affects these kids and so how do you continue to parent your kid when they're breaking down how do you continue to be married how do you continue to love

somebody who has different opinions and thoughts about the stuff going on in the world today so relational issues and man

our lives were crazy and a mess before the last before 2020 hit they're already a mess and so this is just exposing some cracks in our relationships and our mental health and our physical all that stuff all together right yeah what about you man well i'll tell you what how about some people who want to get a bigger shovel as dave ramsey has said for years how about how about

you you're in the baby steps you're working you're going ken i i've always wanted to do this type of work can i be in the baby steps paying off debt specifically and change careers in order to make more money the answer is yes so we'll take on some of those strategic moves how about that i love it lots of people are just they're just stuck yeah they're just like man i've got a job i'm grateful for

it yep but i want more yeah i want to see meaning in my work we'll take on some of things how about some toxicity we take on how about we got a toxic boss toxic work culture just saying how about we take that on together that's right because you'll talk about how to handle that emotionally and mentally and i'll talk about hey what do we do what are

the moves to make so we always have a lot of fun i love it man i love it so let's open up the phones here we go it's a free call as you know triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go kirk is gonna

start us off in denver colorado kirk how can we help hey dr john ken thanks

for taking my call you bet

so i have a question dr john about dealing with feelings of resentment and

basically i've been married for 10 years we have two kids and we have a wonderful marriage relationship and five years ago the business that i started moved from uh where we live about an hour 45 minutes two hours away and so i've been commuting for

those five years about 800 000 miles a week

and 20 hours a week and um

initially it was a gradual thing we're going to you know move the business up there and then we're going to you know grow it and if it grows and if it happens well everything went according to plan and so now i'm in a position where i've asked her can we think about moving um last couple years putting our heads the answer is the resounding no and so as we

as a as i drive every day i'm building resentment and so i telling everything that's the death of our relationship and you know it's a comparison thing where every time she adds something to her plate whether that's you know

coaching or something extracurricular it

asks me to come home earlier or to ask

me to do something on the weekends that i don't necessarily want to do because of the

commute because of the yeah the issues

so um you said two things that that contradict each other one is we've got this beautiful relationship and two i've got this this resentment that is building every mile down the road i get from my house every time she says i need you to come home early which is a two-hour commute for you there's something bigger going on here than just this commute what what is it

uh well i think it's that

she values i feel like she values other things the reasons for her staying which is her job the kids where we want them to grow up her families here over me and over my success and

my um grind that i'm doing and

so here here's the thing i don't think that's necessarily that binary but you have you are exactly right what i'm gonna tell you is your your marriage is on um red alert right now okay yeah you

have made this into an either or she is i'm not she's forced you into an either or it's not that but um in the nerd world we call it fundamental attribution error when you get into somebody else's head and decide why they're making the decisions they're making or why they're not making the decisions they're making and then you go to war with your own explanations of why somebody else is doing whatever

it is they're doing so here's the thing your marriage is in trouble am i going to mince words with you and you again you can pipe in you can't work two hours from your house and commute every day and be a present father and be a present husband and at this point you're a paycheck and a courier and that is not that has no legs in a long-term relationship yeah here's what

i would tell you kirk you need to figure out what your professional options are that might make this better and to what john said you are projecting some real feelings that you're having onto her and i think you got to sit down and say here's what i'm feeling and let her say well that's not true but have you considered that when you ask her to move and uproot to

be closer to your work that you are asking her to do some things that she's afraid of right and so she has some very real feelings on the other side of this reality so one reality is this makes it better for you and your life easier but that same suggestion makes her feel like oh i don't want to do that instead of hey we got to be a big boy

and i'm going to tell you uh you need to be the leader here you need to be the person who puts your feelings aside for a moment and get some facts hey kirk let me ask you this what's more important to you at this point if i told you you got to quit your job today and find a job closer to home or your marriage is gonna gonna end

my marriage of course there you go i know you're gonna say that so at some point you guys gotta get across the table from one another at this point i'm gonna tell you i think you should get a neutral third party i think you guys need to go see somebody yeah and you all stop communicating and then that when you stop communicating it falls into an either or

when it falls into either or then it's you versus me and now we've gone to war and no marriage can survive that your kids don't deserve that she didn't deserve that man you don't deserve that you deserve to be connected and loved resentment i think is the cancer that will almost kill any relationship if it's not rooted out so get after this do what john said be a big man about

this come up with some other options all right wow we're just getting started folks don't move more of your calls about life this is the ramsay show

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[Music]

providing you hope for a better future and practical steps to make that future a reality this is the ramsay show i'm ken coleman ramsey personality host of the ken coleman show on the ramsey network joined by my colleague in studio today he's dr john deloney host of the dr john deloney show also on the ramsey network it occurs to me that people must hear that and go wow

you spent a lot of time and money on those show names it is a lot of creative hours of people in the room and man i'm you're probably like me i had so many awesome kit like the laser show i mean i had so many cool laser show i would have liked that the laser show with dr johnson would that be feels like a vegas actually see yeah like

you would be on a stage with lasers i just had so many great titles glad we didn't go with that did not work out all right folks we're here to take your calls uh we're gonna take your calls on money we'll take your calls on your relationship mental health emotional health we'll take your calls on your work are you doing work you love uh do you want to move up get that bigger shovel you're dealing with some toxicity at work uh john

and i can combine a lot of these and we will speaking of uh how many of you out there right now are in a position maybe because of the pandemic that you are needing a better job or

maybe you are listening right now and you're saying hey i want to make a transition so that i can move up the ladder i want to get that promotion if that is you or you know somebody that is in that boat i'm very excited john to announce that uh ramsey solutions and myself are combining again

for the second version of get hired we did this event in june last year in the middle of a pandemic trying to help people who are displaced here's where we sit there are 16 people uh unemployed for every open job in the united states right now that's a shift from february of last year where there were more jobs available than people who were unemployed so we are relaunching we're bringing it back for a second uh spectacular night april the 27th 8

eastern 7 central time i'll be live here with a a small and really fun vibrant crowd here at ramsey solutions headquarters and we'll be beaming this all around the world tickets start at twenty dollars so think of if you've got three or five people in your life that need this that'd be a great gift hundred dollars in your budget this month will give people the edge because

the economy is warming back up but it is still very competitive so we're gonna go through the first three stages of my seven stages to meaningful work get clear get qualified and get connected all for the purpose of getting hired it's gonna be a great event again get your tickets at daveramsey.com

ticket start at just 20 that's

daveramsey.com it's going to be a really really fun night so tell everybody you know that needs wants to move up

move on in their professional work it's gonna be a great night this may be awkward but i probably need to get one of those uh tickets oh really yeah looking for a new job i don't think i'm doing very well i think it'd be great to i think you're doing teach me how to get connected i think you're doing quite well hey i have a question um

just a personal question on that last show you you've handled this question way more than i have do you have a recommendation a recommendation for for folks for families on how far somebody should commute to a job you know well there's no set answer yeah but it's a philosophical answer so i'm not going to say it's 90 minutes or two hours whatever i think it is when it begins to go from okay we can do this we've adjusted to

this to this is putting a strain on our family gotcha and that requires intentionality intentionality and communication we got to talk so it might be okay for six months it might have been okay for the last six years now the kids are older they're in more sports so i'm gonna leave that open to say i think as a married couple if we're in tune and we're paying attention to everybody in

the family and for whoever the spouse is whichever one of the family unit is doing the long travel and so they're not there as much versus and the other person who's having to do more everything so it's gone more and doing more right whoever's gone more okay who's how's that affecting everybody because they're not there they're leaving earlier getting home later whatever and then whoever's having to do more as a result of

the one who's gone more if it begins to now this is a strain we need to adjust you gotta adjust yeah that's my formula how does that fit with the uh mental and emotional health i i've i think i think most people don't um do the hard work of sitting down with somebody they care about and express how they feel about something um i think it we avoid hard conversations for

so long that you just keep getting in the car and driving and i think most of us don't actually know what it is that frustrates us what it is that's driving us what feelings we're actually having about stuff and so i get home and i'm frustrated at my kids or i'm frustrated after this or actually i'm frustrated that i miss folks and i've been driving for 45 years

you make a very good point and i want to add to my answer because you just addressed something it's not just the strain on everybody else but if your heart's hurting too much that's it right that's what you just described because eventually that's going to come out the way you describe you're angry at the world and yourself and eventually i think you're angry at yourself my heart's hurting yeah i'm doing

this to me you know i got to that point i'll tell you early on when i did the first version of the ken coleman show back in atlanta i was uh on a local radio station monday through friday and i was doing the 5 to 7 p.m slot while the kids were three i had three kids under three well you know this yeah it was 45 minutes away

i got home at 7 55 maybe 8 o'clock i

missed it all they're already upstairs stacy was getting them out of the bath someone was asleep and i got to tell you after six months of that my heart was hurting those are the magic moments you don't get those back yeah so i went to the station general andre i said would you be open to me moving from five to seven to three to five and thankfully

they were that's cool and you want to talk about a game changer yeah your marriage works better your connection with your kids works better and then you get to settle into that that's a real life example yeah mine i've always worked very close that's just always been a thing i want i want to be one or two miles from home and i agree now i've got more of a commute

and do your thing we're just having to adjust right and some families are fine we have some good friends uh that live in our neighborhood here and he works in atlanta and every sunday night he drives atlanta comes back uh on thursday gets home before the kids are home uh so late late thursday afternoon it's working right now i talked to him last year how's your heart

he goes we're good man we're good so if you know some people can do it right

but when your heart hurts where there's a strain that's when you know we got to make a change that's right love it triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number triple eight eight two five five two two five max is joining us in the big apple new york city new york max how can we help hey guys how are you today well we're having a blast how can

we help you all right um so i recently just got married uh last year my wife and i were 27 years old we both worked um and we've been renting in manhattan for about five years now and i'm sure as you guys know we pay you know you pay an arm and a leg for rent in manhattan so uh you know we started talking about purchasing a home

and we make pretty decent money together we have a nice chunk of savings combined and we're just kind of lost as far as how much house can we afford what's your income tell me your take home best as you can tell me our take-home uh it's tough because everything gets taken out automatically we do like 210 combined gross okay 210 gross

all right and how much do you have in savings uh between the both of us it's about 830 000. whoa now when you say between the both of us uh oh do we have separate accounts here she holds the ball well you guys got a a pronoun problem here y'all are married so that's y'alls savings yeah you can't you can't separate that brother yeah it needs to be joint accounts you said how much 8 30 about about 8 30.

the notion that you know she doesn't want to start her home she wants to just be in the big house and call it a day and i'm looking more for let's cut it back by a couple hundred thousand let's grow our family and start and you know we could always move up if things go well for us all right well we gotta handle this real quick i'm gonna let john address that real quick

the communication piece here's what we teach at ramsey solutions okay that you uh you need to the amount of house you can afford and should afford is 25 of your take-home pay but now you've got 830 000 in the bank do you have any debt yes or no no okay great then there you go you got a huge down payment you guys you guys can get house

but i would still be conservative 25 of your take home pay john and sit down

and don't let this deal be a deal breaker between we want the big fancy house in the in the starter house y'all sit down and have an honest conversation with one another about what you're trying to do i'd much rather see a young couple like y'all be out of debt buy a house you can afford and have no payments you got a big down payment you can dump on

there and then grow your family over time move up in house as the market allows yeah get on the same page you guys are in great shape congratulations big down payment be conservative then grow all right don't move more of your calls coming up this is the ramsay show

[Music] so

[Music] welcome back this is the ramsey show coming to you from ramsay solutions worldwide headquarters in nashville thrilled to have you with us dr john deloney my colleague joins me ken coleman we are ramsey personalities we host uh shows uh entitled uh the same as our name what is the word eponymous uh what's the word what it's it means the same is the name the same you know what i'm talking about that's a very fancy word i'll look

it up later i it's like a word you just said but i can't pronounce it i'm not sure yeah kelly's a word nerd uh what is that word can you look that up do you know what i'm talking about it's uh eponymous how eponymous

hippopotamus hippopotamus hey folks

we're doing it live here every once in a while you throw a word out and you're like i think i said that right but i'm not sure and i care enough to address it but uh nonetheless what i was meant to say is he's the host of the john dr john delony show that would have been easier it would have been easy and i'm the host of

the ken coleman show on the ramsay network and so uh john talks about your mental and emotional health as well as relationships i talk about doing work that matters deeply to you working on purpose which by the way coincides with living on purpose so we also talk money as well because this is ramsay solutions and the ramsey show so we're gonna talk about your life how can

we help you triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to san diego california next where jacinta joins us how can we help hey dr john

ken thank you for taking my call you bet

uh me and my husband we are on baby step two we are 69k in debt we have four kids under eight we are a navy family my husband's a sailor and i myself am looking to just make my shovel bigger i

i have my bachelor's degree um i did that while we were stationed in virginia for a while and raised the babies got my bachelor's but now i'm looking to just kind of advance a little bit and apply it to the accelerated nursing program i it should take me about three years i have some core nursing courses to take and then the 24 months of the nursing program to do okay so what's your question

um my question is if i should even do it

we have four kids uh my husband's in the navy he deploys next year most likely and nursing school is just a ton of work i you know i know what it takes my friends went through it and i'm nervous about it but i i know i could do it um we do have help of the family back home here in california and i'm wanting to use a gi bill um like

i said we're 69k and get so and part of that is a student loan which i will never ever do again i'm not even thinking about that so um thinking the gi bill might help us a ton with that of course and then that go ahead well here's the deal do you want to do this because when you don't want to when somebody calls up and asks

you this question i i can give you thoughts but when someone says should i do it that means you've already got a thought you've already got your answer you might have two answers you might have a head answer and you might have a heart answer what do you have one answer do you have a head answer and a hard answer and what is the answer what is your answer well to be honest

i want to just make my shovel bigger because being a stay-at-home mom i work at target right now i make 15 an hour i'm getting minimal hours maybe 20 25 and i want to do better for myself you know i've been a mom my kids are all under eight i've been maybe why if i want to kind of put myself first uh my head goal is to be director of nursing

and i know that's going to take some time okay hold on so here's the deal you want to be director of nursing this isn't just a job for you gave me the just a job i want to make more money i want a bigger shovel i want to do this this and this for my family that was the answer you just gave me but i want to know

the hard answer when you choose nursing i think you chose it for a specific reason and when you say things like i want to be a director of nursing i want to lead other nurses is essentially what you're saying there's a why behind that tell me the why um to make more money okay so it is just a job it is just a job this isn't work that you're deeply passionate about

you don't have a deep desire to be a nurse it's not something you've always wondered about yes or no yeah but i've never really got to explore what i'm passionate about i mean i've worked a little part-time jobs and i don't really know i'm more of a mom and that's kind of been my main passion i think you do know let's take nursing out for a second

let's take all the things you've just really done a great job of laying out all the things you got to do and why you would do it and there's a good economic case that you've made but here's what i want to know i want you to suspend your brain just for a few seconds if you knew you could not fail you didn't have to worry about child care kids

it was just this fun work adventure everybody was fine in the family everybody was taking care of it you could go do this work and you didn't have to commit to it for the rest of your life but it was going to make you more money and you were going to be successful at it what would you try

i know i want to do something in the medical field but you're right nursing i don't know if i can do the hands-on with the patients i've been a cna in that kind of so here's the deal i'm going to push you a little bit so i'm going to push you because you're really doing great your heart's starting to reveal the answer what would you do in

the medical field forget about title forget about how possible it is what would you do big fun adventure ken and john get to put me on what would you do in the medical field hands on go say it

i would be director of nursing i would do it i want to do that okay so should you want a leadership role i want a leadership role yeah i want to do the hiring part i want to do the office all right hr i want to work in a hospital i want to work with you know people that help but in order to get them to help

you have to hire them you have to direct them in the right space and lead them and i want to be okay i'm not part of the end of that so here's the deal so here's the deal we got all the way around came back to it and you just blurted it out i want to be in the medical field i want to be hands-on but you're more not

the medicine but you're about the people right yeah great so here's the deal yeah

you got to become a nurse in order to eventually hire and lead nurses so the answer is yes but here's what i don't want you to feel the pressure to do you don't have to do it right this second right maybe maybe the question with you and your husband tonight over dinner or a date on the weekend john i want you to jump into this is when is

the right time to do this with the kiddos you do have the child care feels like you've gone through a lot of these things you do have the gi bill which is huge for you and you can start to make progress now

but i would just make absolutely sure when is the right time to do this but my answer is your answer right which is yes you should do this don't doubt it the question is when and how jacinta as your husband is getting deployment orders and you know he's going to be going overseas next year how much are you feeling in your heart that he's doing this big huge thing and you feel like i'm just a mom and

there's 69 thousand dollars that i could be helping on he's going to do this dr john you're good that's exactly how

i've been telling you so listen your husband's a stud you know this right yeah he's listening right now on his way home he's a stud on behalf of your family on behalf of his fellow soldiers and behalf of my kids who he's never met and ken's kids who he will never meet and you're a stud yes you are

taking care of four humans under the age

of eight i would call you a superhero that's a weather event right every day yeah and so do you guys

have 69 grand between the two of you yup do you have it yeah you do do you have to solve all that like ken said right now no there is an industry that exists to make

moms of all types feel less than oh you want to be a full-time mom you should be working oh you're working you should be at home or oh you only have two kids you should have 11.

one is his type r he has a sports car that i'm like sell your car but then i feel like maybe he deserves it but then it would help us um that's our lowest oh he's listening right now you just dropped uh that was very well played well played yes you should sell the car charger sell the car sell the car yeah but listen listen

he married you because he loves you you're a great mom you're a great um soldier's wife we need

you as much as we need him put the guilt down y'all come up with a plan together to pay this debt off over time i don't think four kids and a

deployment is a great time to go back to grad school does it make that's gonna be a wild ride but you can't do it but it's gonna be busy hang on jacinta kelly let's give them a free trial to ramsey plus you two need to get together get into ramsey plus and get

get together on the process of financial peace and get that baby step working work those baby steps and get out of debt and get on the same page with your vision before you know it that 69 000 is gone and you guys are doing what you want to do sell the car sell the car ramsey show continues in just a moment

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney as we take you through this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five what do you need some help with you need to get something off your chest come on uh the doctor is in and then uh i've got

an opinion or two as well so it's a nice combo we'll talk about money we'll talk about emotions we'll talk about work how about all three of those money work mental emotional health parenting schooling parenting the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it which is awesome how about this one i get this one a lot john have had in the last week on the ken coleman show had two couples call in together

because i've been telling them hey because i get a lot of spouses will call in saying hey my spouse is not happy yeah they're miserable at their work they don't like it they feel down they've been they've been out of the workforce for a certain amount of time they're depressed blah blah blah you know and they're trying to help so we'll get them on yeah because on

the youtube i'll go i'll tell you what play this back i'm going to talk to them what's their name i'll look at the camera all right larry listen to me yeah you know what i mean love it and so we'll do that today you know if you need help connecting with a spouse well i love it how do you encourage the spouse to do give them that nudge of confidence how do

you help them but not push them that's right that's a tricky thing too so we'll take it all well and if you've got a someone who loves and cares about you and you've given them permission to speak into your life can this happen to me this week i was walking through our bedroom and my wife stopped me and she said you will stop talking to my husband like you've been talking to in

the last two weeks i slipped into just some negative self-talk running my mouth about myself and she said stop stop i love that guy

and you're gonna quit talking to him like yeah boy it was just a good call yeah man i've been right and i wouldn't have heard it i would have just thought my thoughts were right because we always think our thoughts and our own emotions and feelings are right and i got to snap out a little bit and yeah so yeah i love it when somebody calls and says

i love somebody who i'm sharing a house with and they're not good i don't know what to say i don't want to help them right that's a tricky situation that's right i love it yeah so we'll take those calls as well all right caroline joins us in greenville north carolina caroline how can we help

hi dr john and ken really appreciate you

taking my call sure um so i'm calling

because i'm feeling a little bit burned out and i need some advice um basically in a nutshell i'm

i'm 52 my husband's 55 we have two girls

one is about to finish college and the other one is going to college in about a year

um we have in

during the pandemic we've managed to pay off our house wow i know i know and um

i'm a respiratory therapist so i travel um so that's part of my thing that i want to talk to you about um i try to stay close to home i go to

south carolina i go to a middle part of the state and work in the hospitals there i also last year worked up in dc for about three months and in

between i would come home for a few days and then get right back out to it we were so focused for two years trying to pay down our home and then the rental property

and the goal was maybe to pay off the other rental property and then we looked at everything and i just said why don't we just sell these two properties and then our house is paid for and then we can just breathe and we we were very fortunate we

used one of your elps and within two weeks both of our properties were sold within uh within uh um about two months

everything was completely paid off wow you are dead free i mean 100

yeah that happened in october and um

you know we've worked really hard just paying that down so basically we paid 80

000 down we were working on the next 80 000 and uh we you know so basically in two years we paid about 160 000.

and that allowed us to by selling those

two properties the house is completely what's causing you to feel like you may be burning out what's going on we have we

have really you know i have to tell you your budget app i just can't say enough about it i was pretty organized with everything we had everything down on paper but it was the day-to-day stuff like the food the groceries the good for you you know miscellaneous stuff and that has really helped us uh so anyway that

really just kind of you know ramped it up so now everything on paper looks good

we seem to be good but caroline you

started off the call caroline listen to me i'm trying to get you and i feel like you might be dodging this a little bit why do you feel like you might okay i'll tell you what it is i'll tell you what it is so i love being

home uh but i also love the money that i'm making um and my family loves it too yeah sure um so i'll just tell you in a nutshell i know what it is can i guess can i guess what it is caroline i'm trying to help you because we got we got to get to this i think your heart's hurting really bad all this travel you love

the job you love the work i'm tired well you're emotionally tired john i think her heart is just spent and can i put something else on top of you you are about to lose your last kid yeah empty nester yep yeah you just cleared this major hurdle and

this is your other daughter's about to be gone from college and you're you're not all this transition is just

whirling and turning in your soul and your home and your husband's heart and soul everywhere i have a question caroline i'll tell you can i tell you something real quick really fast okay so i work three months um

doing a contract i can take off time

and i just haven't do it and carolina

you're talking about their trip in july caroline listen to me caroline caroline listen to me i got a question for you can you afford to quit this job right now in this season of life it's a yes or no answer yes yes we have almost 400 000. caroline caroline quit

you have a limited amount of time with your last baby before she goes off to college john nailed it and that's what your heart is telling you to do your brain's going well you got a really good job you make really good money and we got lots of toys and we actually can buy more toys we get a lot to do a lot of things now we've been sacrificed for

so long i don't know what to do i don't know what to do i don't know what to do let me tell you what you need to do you need to listen to your heart and caroline your heart's telling you to quit take some time off the break yes listen once baby flies

once the last baby flies out of the nest then you can think about re-entering and doing something that's close to home but you can do something even bigger than that your husband can say yeah it's just you and me babe now what yeah that's right we're a little over halfway done here because y'all are both gonna live to be 110 yep we're a little over halfway what do

we want this to look like what kind of work we want to do do you want to go back to traveling but you guys have gazelle sprinted and if that gazelle keeps sprinting and sprinting the lions don't catch him he just dies of a heart attack mm-hmm yeah exactly so

take a breath and that's what i'm seeing in my patients my population and that's what i was kind of like oh my gosh i have got to slow down a little bit well you called because you were looking for permission john she was looking for permission i've had this call granted a thousand times on my show and i'm just gonna tell you granted permission granted your husband may miss

the the paycheck he's gonna love getting his girlfriend back he might he might be a little irritated when she tells you to pick up his socks but that's good for him that's fantastic because she's been in and out and this is going to not just it's not this really i'm not so much worried about her being physically tired john i'm worried about the emotional because there's a lot of emotional capital calories spent uh trying to get out of debt

and sacrifice and especially in a job that's all about secondary traumatic stress where you are living in the pain of other people for a profession right absolutely that wears you out where's your you can take some time to get well go for walks be with your daughter absorb that last time help your other daughter transition from college you know what i think she needs to do caroline

i think you need to set some fun new things i think you need to announce your resignation to at least your family tonight and then do it the right way which i know you will you'll be classy and leave well but john i think she needs a standing uh nail appointment or standing something they spot with the glass she's going to create something at her

breakfast with my daughter love it and she's going to tell her i know you don't want to go i'm your mom you have to it's the last semester before you go we are hanging out every monday that's just gonna be what that is uh and it's gonna be great oh i love that caroline you're rock star congrats to you and your husband you are debt-free so cool so now you can live

and give like no one else awesome stuff hey i want to thank our producer james childs our associate producer kelly daniel and my colleague dr john deloney but most of all we want to thank you america this is your show this is the ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story [Music]

coming to you live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions and broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about life i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dolone we are taking you through this hour as we answer one caller at a time giving hope

and practical steps to get where you

want to be whether it is in your money it is in your work your pursuit of purpose in your relationships and your emotional mental health we are here for you and we have a blast doing it

triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number it's toll free jump in triple eight eight two five five two two five john as i was saying right before we came on the only thing missing right now on this giant desk is a plate of barbecue

barbecue all manner of meats and sides

i think that's what this was missing but other than that we're ready to go we have all the ingredients just barbecue donuts would be good too you like donuts they're not good for you but i love them yeah i love them all right all right we'll see we can yeah barbecue would be excellent yeah we'll talk to the production we're looking at you get a platter production barbecue

and then a side of doughnuts for doctor not eating donuts man i fall asleep right in the middle of the show boom forehead down that's why i know you're getting old when food you're stuck yeah i'm out yeah you know you're old when carbs threaten your consciousness that's it's like oh boy and you're it's a multi-day event yes i i finished a no sugar challenge

ken yeah uh a couple days ago i partnered with it with a with a navy seal i was having to text him every day not a good idea not a good idea and people shouldn't partner with if i missed a day the punishment was going to be brutal so i i made it

my life philosophy is don't ever fall off a wagon but occasionally you got to park the wagon and step off of it how soon after the challenge was over did you get sure i made myself go two days so two extra days and then i went for it and here's the thing what was the moment what was the thing you cheated with i did a speech for a group here and they gave me like a fish bowl sized bowl of gummy candy and

marshmallow products of all sorts it's it's my it's my okay sweet spot as you would say yeah not not where i would have gone with it but that was you when in rome they gave you a bowl they gave you a bowl of of and as i was sort of eating it yeah i thought this isn't just going to cost me today and tonight it's going to be a multi-day affair

because i'm old it is true i'm old it is true well you're not going to take care of your body no doughnuts just barbecue would be awesome yes all right well i'm sufficiently hungry let's go help some people let's go to ben who joins us in pittsburgh pennsylvania ben how can we help all right gentlemen thank you so much for taking my call you bet well my question is

this uh i'm 27 years old i live at home still i'm

on baby step two uh the only debt that i have is my college loans how much is that um it's about thirty five thousand dollars um it's kind of a sticky situation uh i was

at another university before i transferred to the university that i graduated with um and after graduating from there i received a letter from the federal trade commission that there was a lawsuit for fraud so it's kind of being investigated right now um but essentially enough that's not actually my my main reason for calling uh my my main reason for calling is i've

always been close with my family um i have six siblings and my my parents

are very much about helping their kids and getting them started on their feet right and i thank them so much for that however lately i've been butting heads with my father in the sense of um moving out and getting on my own i've

brought up the idea of renting multiple times to him and him being a renter himself and has also had tenants in houses that he does own he strongly persists that i don't do that and insist that i stay home and save for a house i'm kind of looking on some guidance to see if that's good advice because i'm not getting any younger you know my sister is getting married she's moving out

this year my other brother just bought a house he's going to be moving out within the end of the year and i'm kind of stuck if if i should move out and rent and and start my life or if i should ben what do you do what do you do for a living brother uh i work in i.t for a university here close to pittsburgh what do

you make a year uh right now making fifty one thousand dollars a year yeah move out tomorrow yeah okay you're i'm gonna say this as nicely

as i can because i i trust you that your dad's a good man and and i love that you are connected as you are to your family your 27 year old man making 51 000 a year your dad didn't get a vote and if you still owe 35 000 student loans you're not in a position to buy a house and you need to get your debt paid off

and then get a down payment saved up and get an emergency fund saved up which you can go buy a cheap one-bedroom apartment start having a life start differentiating yourself from your family doesn't mean you don't love them doesn't mean you're not connected to them but that means that they're not making decisions for you because you're 27 year old man and then you're going to be in a position to buy a house down

the road you're not that's not you don't you're not financially ready for that right and that's the point that i brought up to him as a i'm like you know i could get married next year i did he

you know like that that's not an easy thing to do when you have let me ask ben a question ben i'm going to ask you a question so that you can answer and my colleague can actually dive into this okay i love this tina's both up then t

and you're both up what's your what's your stomach for telling dad what john already told you you already started coming up with more things feels like you're just keeping this thing alive and i want to know stomach uh meaning you've got the guts to look at dad and say it exactly the way that john said it is it a one is it a five is it a ten where is

it on a scale of one to ten one being i'm terrified to do it it makes me sick to think about it ten i'm ready to go i just needed permission um i would probably say it's about a five or six i could tell them but you know i mean we've been so close to the family so you look for that approval wait a second wait wait wait wait wait wait wait

i got one more question john do you really think that he's gonna disown you no of course he's not but you're acting like it i acknowledge john he might be a little upset and think that i think his son is not being wise are you are you the oldest i'm the oldest boy yes that was his first son so it is always a shock to the system

the first time a grown child tells their parents i'm grateful for your advice i'm going east yeah or i'm going west and that always

sends a shock away through the family system it will take some getting used to because they're not used to this they've got six kids the oldest the oldest of which is almost 30 and they're you're still living at home as though you were 16.

here's the thing asking your dad the same advice overnight you know what no he's going to say so going back to that going back to that it's great there needs to be a transition from where your parents give you their thoughts on things but not the answers on things and this is your moment let me tell you something let me say this hey ben i'm going to give enough time for my colleague to clean

this up if i mess this up but let me tell you what i think you're going to be right listen ben the very man that you are so worried about his approval if you don't do this your desire for approval and love and connection is going to turn into deep resentment i'm telling you am i right john and resentment is the it's a killer it's it's the kill relationship that's right

so if you don't do what john said you're going to end up resenting your dad because here's the deal your head heading hard or clear on what you need to do you're just worried that dad's gonna be upset with me so take him out to take him out to a big boy lunch you pay oh yeah let him know hey dad i'm really grateful but i've decided to move out i'm gonna start my adventure on my own i'm almost 30

and it's time i'm so grateful for

your help up until now but it's time for me to move on yep this is the ramsey show we'll be right back

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so

the ramsey show continues i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john deloney and

we are thrilled to have you with us taking your calls about life whether it's money whether it is hey i'm not happy in my work i want to get a bigger shovel i want to do more i want to work on purpose or hey i've got some some mental emotional stuff i got some relationship stuff get some kids stuff get some spouse stuff whatever it is john

and i are here to help triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we consider what we do work that matters and to that note uh before we get back to the phones i want to let you know that ramsay solutions we're all about transforming lives and we want to get more people to help us do this imagine being a part of disrupting

the toxic

culture whether the money culture the work culture the relationship culture

you can be a part of it we want to disrupt the toxicity in this world with hope and practical solutions that's why ramsey solutions we have a thousand people working together to create digital products and services to help people transform their lives and if you would like to join us on that crusade we are on the hunt for many software engineers with expertise in ruby on rails java c-sharp

and front-end technologies or if you're a ux designer seo and content marketing specialist we'd love to talk with you find out about all of the available jobs by texting the phrase work that matters

no spaces there text the phrase work

that matters to three three seven eight nine that's three three seven eight nine text work that matters to three three seven eight nine to find out about all of our open opportunities all right to the phones we go triple eight eight two five five two two five atlanta georgia is where adam joins us adam how can we help hey guys what's going on

got a question for john fellow texan here but obviously we're down in atlanta hey we got to spread the love everywhere right i'm in nashville so what's what's up hey man so second marriage been married 10 years got two kids with

my first wife 16 and 14 and a 16 year old has been living with us for two years now

my wife and i are expecting any day now

and so my 16 year old

is you know we're in we're in family therapy and he is extremely jealous

and depressed and and wants to

wants to move out and and move home with mom you know with the with the uh introduction of the baby coming home so we need some tools that you know can

help us cope with this and you know some things that obviously we can you know give some tools to him as well but as of right now i mean he's he's really tuning everybody out here yeah so so the basically adam the baby's

a proxy what's what's what's beneath that how long has he been struggling now he's been struggling since he moved with us two years ago what precipitated that move why do you have to move in with y'all um expelled from school okay uh

you know alcohol and alcohol and drugs at you know 11 12 13 years old that you know nobody

nobody knew about and and when it happened he was expelled that you know so he's 16. he's 16

and does that mean y'all got your divorce was when he was about six five uh yeah about three

about three yeah divorced in 2007.

he was about three his brother was just over one years old okay so when he was three he lived with mom and went back and forth and back and forth back and forth multiple times a year from texas to michigan okay so baby's just the latest

man he's been living with who am i and chaotic systems since he has any recollection in fact before he's got recollection his body has stored this stuff all over the place this level of trauma and this level of dysfunction and so what does your therapist say when y'all go to family counseling what what where what are they recommending

well you know we're kind of pressing your therapist now we'll meet without him and then we meet with him or he'll meet by himself and you know we just haven't seen a lot of progress because he you know he just repeatedly says that he's depressed but he never he never has any clarity to that

yeah 16 year olds man it's asking a lot of a 16 year old to be clear to be able to unpack emotions

be able to unpack feelings to be able to unpack hormones to be able to unpack this what did i do to cause this this co

this chaos that's been present in my life the last 5 10 15 years that's a tall order and so

the the impetus falls on the parents in these moments to do the connecting towards the kid do they have to be accountable for their actions absolutely do they have to have good behavior absolutely all they need those boundaries those are important but to sit there and say hey you're telling me you're depressed unpack that for me that's that's hard for somebody that hasn't been given those tools over the years um what is your relationship with him

like one on one y'all are out walking somewhere y'all going shopping together you're out fishing together whatever that looks like what's your relationship with him like

typically one on one it's good

um you know we we joke around a lot

you know we go to the gym and we you know we train together uh you know we do stuff here at the house we do our yard work together stuff like that our relationship is

is good but it seems like his bond is

shifting more towards mom

here in the past you know six seven eight nine months it's just increasing and so it's almost like he he puts on a

persona where everything is fine you know he's always smiling and

you know like in good spirits and excited when he gets home from school but you know when he talks to anybody else you know i'm depressed and you know things of that nature but and sometimes every every teenager is different so i'm not going to be able to give you hey you need to go do this this and this but i will tell you there are some situations where teenagers are will are looking for ways

to connect and if him saying hey i'm depressed

hey i i i'm not doing well is that's what it takes to get the people who love him in his life to stop and look him in the eye and say hey how are we doing then they'll do that or he's

actually struggling and does not have the words to put into context how much he's hurting my guess is it's been going on a long long time and he's continuing to look for different behaviors and so you're right to press your family therapist you're in the right place i would be telling you to go do this to go find a professional and if you're not getting some concrete things that can help heal that relationship now or to help you connect with him

now then get another therapist find somebody's gonna give you some practical tips to help heal this relationship um and man if if moms

if mom's a safe place for him to go i don't have a problem with him going back to moms if that's where he needs to be to be successful right now ken you've got two teenage boys

what's it like trying to get them to connect their their their words with their what's going on in their heart and heads uh it would be like trying to sandpaper a

bobcat's butt telephone booth i don't even know exactly right that's hard enough it's tough it's it's to the point where you they're only going to tell you what they want to tell you um and you know more about this you know we're learning too that you know at that age they can't even articulate that's is if we think they can because they're 15 or they're 16 and they've got all kinds of words

but then when they have to actually confront their emotions and then there's this you know what are they going to tell mom and dad versus what they'll tell friends

um and i can tell you from our journey that we can never truly predict although we have learned that there are circumstances and and moods and ways that we can get them to a point where they will open up to us they're still deciding it's not like we sit and go tell us and there's no great technique you know that but it's hard and i think what i was going to ask you in this situation is i feel for this this this man um how do the parents stay

healthy and we're going to break but maybe something to talk about is at some point how the parents stay healthy when their kid's not healthy that's tough you've got to make that priority numero you have to you got to be okay with them not being okay that's right and that doesn't feel very parental right when we come back let's talk about some of these words that kids throw around all right we'll tee

it up hit us differently than it may let's do maybe experience yeah let's do that all right don't move parents pay attention maybe get that teenager to listen in with you right now i don't know we'll see what's going to happen this is the ramsay show

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined this hour by my colleague dr john deloney and uh as we went into our last break we were talking to a dad a mixed family uh situation going on uh

different different uh biological parents and for second marriage all this kind of stuff and he's just really uh he's really hurting for his 16 year old and uh who's telling others yeah that he's that he's got some depression going on but seems like their relationship is he recounted to you pretty good he feels like things are good but he's hearing this over here it's confusing and then

i can just tell you uh as a non-clinical guy here as a dad of three teens um boy i tell you what you just hurt when you feel like your kids are hurting and so as we went to break john i said to you i said you know i think it's so hard for parents to learn how to be healthy when their kids aren't healthy or another way of saying

it is how does a parent be okay when your kids

aren't okay and i'm not saying you're okay that things are rough in their life of course you're not but it's like how do you keep things in perspective and john i'm asking that yeah i'm asking that too because you know it just happens teenage being a teenager in 2021 has got

to be brutal i gotta believe it's way worse than us what we had yeah so one of the things that i would tell

all parents is what you just said your kids can't be okay if your marriage

isn't okay right and we often get that mixed around and so couples will break up into into t like workforce mode right to make sure the kids are doing these things and what what gets sacrificed on that altar of our kids are busy and they're doing things and everything's exciting and they're happy is our marriage and you gotta invert that you and the person you're married to you've gotta be okay right

and then and only then can your kids anchor into that that solid foundation but i think as as the last caller was was was speaking i was thinking man we

we've got this passing in the night of we're all using the word depression it means something different to a clinical person it means something different to a dad who's got some guilt about a divorce he's got some guilt about a frustrated kid 14 and 16 year old and now we got a one a new a newborn baby from a new marriage is coming all this stuff has happened at

the same time and then you get a kid that man seems like things are great when we're around each other but then you go tell other people i'm depressed right so the first the most important thing that um that family's doing that is right is they're sitting with a with a family counselor how can we work through this with a professional we got now we're gonna have a blended family

and one of the one of the things i remember one of my counseling professors dr aretha marble one of the most brilliant women i've ever had the opportunity to to know said when when you have a new kid coming into a situation always rally the older kids with the words your your brother your kid right

give them some ownership and some participation in this not so much there's jealousy not so much that there's a burden here with that last dad was immediately saying hey my kid's frustrated because he's jealous man it's so much deeper than that right these kids these teenagers are desperate

to heal that chaos and that that frustration and that burning why did my parents get divorced the first time why do i have to choose between these two parents now you're bringing another kid in what are you doing it's 20 20 right oh and i'm just going to stare at a screen all day too right it's all of that so parents you got to

stop asking your kids to to speak like adults sometimes they

don't have the language to articulate their emotions and all of their feelings and all of this and that's they can communicate with connection they can communicate with can we just go play ball can we just throw i'm not going to ask you more questions i'm not going to give you more advice can we just go ahead can we have breakfast together i'm going to make you a breakfast with me

you can sit in silence good will hunting style we can ride this out in silence but we're gonna do this and i'm just gonna tell you i love you right if your kid is experiencing hopelessness if your kid is experiencing helplessness if they used to be really good and find things really exciting suddenly they just fall off the map that's when you know hey we're in some we're struggling here yeah dig into those relationships with those kids right

and if you do all of a sudden if you have a 16 or 14 year old and all of a sudden you find out hey we're having another one yeah man get way ahead of that right get way ahead of that if your kid tells you i want to go live with mom and mom's safe sitting all right mom and if yeah it's not your battle to lose man

you want your kid to be safe and be okay so there's a lot of mess there man but at the end of the day make sure your marriage is whole make sure you're good and don't give up on these kids yeah good stuff there all right let's go to new york city new york where alexandra joins us alexander how can we help

hi i wanted to first thank you both for uh taking my call and speaking to me today i really really love the show and love all you guys thank you and dr john congrats on your recent show i've been enjoying that as well thank you so much i only got about three listeners and so you're one of them so i appreciate you sure you have way more than that

anyway so what's up my question

yeah my question for you both is um

how can i feel more secure about money i'm 32 years old i was always a spender um coming out of

college as luckily able to not have any debts thanks to father paying for my tuition and really started above where a lot of my peers were but lived always paycheck to paycheck moved out on my own with no cushion or savings and basically spent most of my 20s doing

that and um was able to actually reverse and

learn to budget and save up a good chunk of money in my mid to late 20s about three years ago

but um ended up due to

some unforeseen circumstances with a bad

um apartment where the landlord wasn't able to provide a healthy living environment um

made me use a chunk of that to move and living on my own i just spent all my feelings away just because

i ended up going through like a depression of some sort um i released the money i had saved up and it ran out before i knew it and fell back into that paycheck to paycheck cycle since then i've worked with therapists and i feel like my mental health has improved but it wasn't until a year ago when the pandemic fit that i feel it was the worst and

best thing that could have happened to me um yes uh worst case scenario happened

with uh work-life balance lines has blurred

but um you know it really got me to focus on my finances um i got furloughed temporarily for three months starting in april so i was able to save a lot of my unemployment up until then and coming back from work

uh in july i was really able to

make a decision to move out of new york city alexandra alexandra alexander we only got about two minutes before we got a commercial break and your question is how can i feel more secure about money so do you have any debt i know you were debt-free coming out of college have you acquired debt are you still debt-free uh i have a 3k in

debt um just from a zero percent credit card that i bought a macbook computer in all right so you guys could pay off okay tomorrow i have 24 000

in savings okay so here's the deal um alexandra alexander here's what you do you got 24 000 in savings or you're back working correct yes and i've increased my job since my

my income increased 50 percent great so here's the deal since november the way you feel more secure about money is to understand who is in control of your money and you are in control of your money once before you have saved up a lot of money you went through a tough season of life and you spent all of that savings but now you're on your way back you got 24 000 savings you have figured out how to do this a couple times so you've got to work our ramsey solutions baby steps and so take 24 000 you need to cut a check tonight you need to pay it as soon as this phone call is over and so now you're going to be down to 21 000.

so now now you're now you're almost done with baby step three if you want to go to six months i would why not go ahead and really save you know get really secure you want more security have a bigger emergency fund we recommend three to six months so you're ready so that's how you feel more secure you follow the plan and uh goodness gracious i'm so excited i've

i got the baby steps all mixed up i know what they are john but she's there right there she's a baby step three now she can say fifteen percent that's baby step four and for income and now she's she's a young lady she's gonna be uh a network millionaire if she just keeps on saving folks security comes with a plan keep

security with discipline keep doing the right goal just do the right thing and security comes your way all right don't move more of your calls coming up this is the ramsay show

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[Music] welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by dr john deloney as we take your calls about your life triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to david in cincinnati ohio david how can we help

hey gentlemen how you doing today we are loving life what's going on that's awesome i have a question for you i'm i'm kind of in the process of need your guidance on going about um probably

how do i search for a new career is there suggestions that you would have that uh maybe like uh i don't know if there's

like an attitude test or things of that nature that would just give me some ideas of different career options about my job to get into sure uh let's start with what you've always wondered about because a guy who calls up and says hey i'm thinking about switching at some point in your life you had some other ideas and wondered about some things that you might do when

you grow up maybe it was when you're nine maybe when you're 19 maybe it was nine months ago or nine minutes ago let's start there because i i'll i'll walk you through this but i want to know what you've wondered about the only thing that i've ever my only passion i've ever had has been law enforcement and i'm probably a little bit too old to get into that how old are

you now i'm 45 nope you're not too old yeah

excuse one god yeah so why law

enforcement tell me why i'll tell them guys i'll blow your theory on the water i've applied for fhp twice i've been denied both times i've applied for the city of orlando i've been denied i've applied for the city of cincinnati have been denied so guys come on i can only take so much of that before you really feel like it's never going to happen you know okay hold on hold on

i get that that's one of those things i get it you're just stuff you know i get it and i understand you're a human being i know you are i was about to say you're discouraged but you're also wrong and and i don't want to beat up on you too much because you're already discouraged but let me tell you something uh 45 is not too old there's no manual there's no unwritten rule throughout

the united states where these local law enforcement officers or even federal law enforcement are saying well 45 is too old and and so but let me tell

you this if you feel like you're too old you'll act like it's not an option and you won't stay with this this is a tough field to get into uh you're talking to a guy who got into broadcasting uh starting at the age of 33. so i'm not

going to allow you to keep telling yourself this but let me i want you to answer the question that i asked you i'm going somewhere with this why sure do you want to be a law enforcement officer

the biggest reason is i like the diversity i like to get some opportunities the i like to

uh i like that it's

it's not you can yeah you can stop on the side of the road and help somebody but there's also a risk there so i like i like the fact that you have the off you have the authority to stop and say hey how can i help you is everything okay along with of course enforcing law and

when there's things that happen you're the one that responds to it and it's not a question of oh you know so it's not just well yeah you could be a good samaritan but it's just it's just having the ability because it's expected because it's your job and so it's not like oh well i grew up here and and the streets were like this and now the crime's bad

and i'm gonna go out here and be the superman and say but i'm not trying to do that i just there's always something that appealed to me and i i like uh investigation um there's things about that that really appeals to me so it was always something that's been my passion yeah of course you know yes why did i pursue it years ago well i tried and

then quite frankly some of the people that i talked to that weren't upset but it probably wasn't a good idea to do when i had my children it made sense and now that my children are gone i tried it again good and you know here's what i want you to hear i wanted you to list out all the reasons why this kind of work fires your soul up

and you did a great job listing it out so what you've got to then say is is

law enforcement the only way to do that kind of work so i'm going to challenge you here to realize that it's not just law enforcement to do that kind of work what are other ways to protect people what are other ways to serve people there are functions and roles that a law enforcement officer does during the day that exist in other places so i want you to expand your mind

but i also want you to understand that you getting into a law enforcement job is all about why i wrote the book the proximity principle which says in order to do what you want

to do david you got to be around people that are doing it in places where it is happening what does that mean practically that means you have got to spend time with police officers or federal officers you've got to get to know them and they get to know you and then all of a sudden you're not just a nameless faceless person who is applying for a job

you are somebody who has come highly recommended hey let me tell you about my friend david this guy's got the chops he's got the passion for it uh and they start making connections for you they're ultimately not going to get you hired but they are going to put you in a position where you're not just somebody competing at somebody else so all of a sudden the 45 year old has a chance to beat out

the 35 year old because of the relationships john and i'm telling you that's how you get in hard to get in fields that are so very competitive you got to have that edge that relationship now i've talked to callers on the show and i want to i want to call this out who have said you don't really it's hard to get that recommendation kind of officially and

i understand that so don't go official you still have relationships and you can meet people so this is a situation where you can't get discouraged you've got to get determined and it sounds cliche but that's really the case he's not too old no and and man

when you when you call somebody and this is something man it's just become a a a challenge for me

to process personally with my family with what's going on in the country when you call two people one of which has i come from a law enforcement background i've spent my entire career working with law enforcement both both on the payroll and

and in my communities and a guy who

does has a nationally syndicated show helping people get with their jobs and your response to their feedback is instant anger instant discouragement

you've got to be reflective enough to say am i applying for these jobs and i'm not getting them for another reason or am i going to create a reason why and it's because i'm too old right i'm just gonna i'm gonna come up with the thing that i think the thing the answer is right and so what i want somebody who is is is inventing answers or

getting discouraged or getting rejected i know it's frustrating i know it's hard you got to listen to the truth when people tell you the truth hey it's not because you're too old what else is what else is holding you back right what else is leaning on you ken what do you tell folks who are struggling with rejection after rejection after rejection when they're searching for a job searching for a job what what what advice do

you give well so what we do is we retreat to clarity okay so let's get back to clarity on who i am so do i have the talent to be a law enforcement officer that's a hard thing right well but hold on but but you do a self-assessment then you get other people in your life who are truth tellers who know you well but will tell you

the truth right not the american idol mom who tells their daughter or son that they can sing and they can't sing yeah so we go back and wait a second do i have all of the required skills and talent that this job

requires that's number one can i pass the if i get into the academy can i pass can i do it you got to do that so then we move to passion do i love this work right how much do i want to do that's why i asked him what's your why why do you want to do this work let's re-clarify why

because then that gets the heart feeling good again right so we're discouraged we're down because we got passed over that's very personal yeah it is so we got to snap back yeah one way to do that do i have the chops to do this if the answer is yes check that box if do i love this work am i passionate about it if the answer is it makes your heart beat thinking about doing that work oh check that box already

and now does that work produce results that really really fire your soul like you want to do this for the community i want to protect them i want to serve them right i want to put a different brand on law enforcement i want to be this guy now we go check check check so now we're clear again yes i really want this are you going to weigh back

i know why and that gives me the juice to step back in and face rejection again because here's the deal none of us john like to be rejected no and especially about something like david man i want to do this for a long time yep and then my kids got in the way and i stepped out and i'm stepping back in he's wanted to do this for a long time

and he's really down because it hasn't happened here's the deal you gotta double down by the way kelly i meant to give david a copy of my book the proximity principle dave you gotta read this and do it uh because the reality is is that john

i'm telling you when the normal resume process isn't turning something for you will you at least try my process i know right because it works and david i want you to go find a law enforcement friend of yours yes and let them know i've applied to all these places i'm i'm missing some feedback what should i be looking for a lot of times people don't get feedback yeah all right hey

i want to thank our producer james childs i want to thank our associate producer kelly daniel i don't want to thank my colleague john delaney doctor jonathan just regular john's good america thank you for listening this is your show this is the ramsay show

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

coming to you live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions and broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about life i'm ken coleman and i'm joined by my colleague dr john dolone we are ramsay personalities we both host shows as a part of the ramsey network he hosts the dr john delony show where he'll talk with

you one caller at a time about your relationships your mental and emotional health parenting's involved in that all kinds of stuff toxicity at work hello you'll deal with some of that i mean it's just all over the board and i on the ken

coleman show we'll talk with you about figuring out what you were created to do in your work uh increasing your income

moving up the ladder for more impact that's what we talk about and we also talk about money as a result of those conversations and of course our role here on the ramsey show so what is your question how can we help you triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go to atlanta georgia where david joins us david how can we help uh yes i was calling i

need to get some uh term insurance and i was trying to figure out how much to get okay tell us your situation how old are you tell us about your family situation i'm 53 and married

i have two kids that are in college okay

so uh what do they are they uh

what what's their plan are they almost out of college how young are they what are they planning to do i've got one that's a junior in college and one that's a freshman in college okay uh so she'll be she'll be graduating like after next year so okay and what is your income and your wife's income if she is working outside the home uh my income is one around 160 and hers

is about 66.

okay so call it 220ish that's safe

right right yeah um my take on that is

it you know if if and let me ask you this too before i say this what is your investment situation you have any debt let's fill out the rest of the financial picture i have i have no dad i have a uh i had i do have a mortgage on the house uh for 314 000 um

but the house is probably worth like 650. oh wow fantastic yeah crushing it okay so

in retirement i've got um probably not i'm sorry not 900 560 000. okay so at this point you are

not because of your investment situation you're not you know self-insured uh and so what you what i would recommend dave and recommend too is ten times uh your income so you know you could do that just on you if you wanted to or your wife but because term insurance with xander insurance is so affordable uh to me i would do the two million two and a half million if you want to do that i'd run rates on it on just ten times your your um your your salary as well and uh

i also think because of your financial situation i'd look at what it would take to pay off a house plus take care of your wife and the two girls or and again you're not having to take care of the girls you know one of them obviously is is a junior you want a freshman but what would you want you know your life insurance policy to do if you went much earlier than expected and i think that helps you frame up that 10x number but i think

for you anywhere between one and a half to two and a half i think is the right amount two and a half million uh one and a half two and a half million and you could also look at uh potentially a separate policy if you wanted to just run the numbers with one of our uh with xander insurance uh and you know paying off the house as well okay and and would you suggest the 15-year or the year i'm 53 so i don't i didn't know if i needed to do a 20 or 15.

to 68 but no no no do 20. because of the the you're healthy right now are you healthy pretty healthy guy yeah i'm pretty healthy yeah so here's what's great every guy i

know would answer i'm pretty healthy so i don't know if dave would ever get this detail but you and i will so let's do this so i did this two years ago uh david

okay i re-upped okay and because i was

in way better shape than i had been before and i actually for the week of the test i went like super clean yeah dropped an

additional four pounds and the cholesterol in the blood was top rate i got the best rate possible so david if you're five to ten pounds from being you know some real savings i'd do the 20 years some real savings yeah awesome do 20 because that gets you to 73 that's enough yeah the the longer you go um the longer

the longer you wait to buy this policy the more expensive it's going to get right yeah so do it now all right what do you think you you you know knocking out the cheeseburgers for the next 10 15 days before they get out there to the house well i think the catches they they kind of get you on that because they say have you lost weight within

the last you know certain amount of time so they kind of um there's kind of a catch there but um you know i'll try to left cheeseburger trust me you need the good whatever the good cholesterol is and you got to get rid of the bad cholesterol i'm telling you david you can do this man and then here's the other thing this is all rounding out in time for

the summer bathing suit season so we are saving money we're looking better in our swimsuit the wife is excited there's a trifecta of goodness here dave david you made one phone call and we made every part of your life better yeah we gave way more than you expected which is what we do here on the ramsay show we'll give you a full holistic advice we'll give you

the whole nine yards call xander they're they're her new zander insurance trust my with my two i'm with as well right that's who i trust that's who dave recommends but more importantly they're great that's who i use to take care of my family in the event that i pass away they're great and on this show i've said it multiple times i'm going to keep saying it again one of

if i look back and i think through the crisis stuff i've been involved with those usually two in the morning three in the morning there's very few people the neighborhoods are asleep and i roll into a house with my you know with one or two partners there's police officers there there's ems there there is few things on earth more harrowing yeah than sitting with somebody who's just lost a spouse

and they look you in the eyes and they say i don't know what to do next yeah because they're gonna have to go to work on monday because they don't have any life insurance they don't know if there's a will they don't know they don't know what comes next they just know that we don't have enough money in savings to cover the electric bill next time that's right

and so don't do that get life insurance

yes get a will take care of your family something happens to me the house is paid off and stacey and the kids are set i'm in that weird moment where you're more valuable dead than you are alive yeah by a margin yeah i know that's how that works by a margin man yeah the xander folks took care of us so you know what we need is we need like for

these people these large insurance policies we need some sort of uh we need to invent the old remember the old days in the uh kelly kelly daniels in a history buff like me you had the tasters for people would taste back in the day you took out a king with a glass of wine oh yeah do you know what i mean like that that was the real deal yeah

and so we need that you know you start getting you and i need some sort of instrument to check the toxicity of our beverages my wife loves me is all she does she does she does hey uh it's tax time john hey

i'm done you're done i did it did you use smart tax smart tax i did it at my kitchen table it was awesome all right well listen uh your taxes don't have to be that complicated text the word tax to 33789 to learn more

on our smart tax program text the word tax to three three seven eight nine and use

ramsey smart tax it's a game changer

what i used and it was awesome it works hey don't move more of the ramsey show coming right up

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you know healthcare has gotten to be ridiculous it puts people um you know on the brink and so it would have put us on the brink had we not had chm chm saved our life same time

financial christian healthcare ministries or chm is not health insurance but it is a budget-friendly option and the original health cost sharing ministry for christians learn more today and check us out at chministries.org that's chministries.org

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[Applause]

welcome back america you're listening to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dolone the phone number to jump in on the conversation is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple a eight two five five two two five let's go to dayton ohio where ronda joins us rhonda how can we help hi guys um really nice to meet you both

it's good to talk to you i am looking for some advice on what to

do as far as relationship goes with money

we've been married for 36 years

and we don't do well together

in any way shape or form we have gone to

several different streams where we just did our own thing and then i tried to step back and said okay you handle it all and that got kind of scary and

he didn't talk to me he doesn't tell me anything and i looked up a little bankruptcy because he wasn't paying the house payment and i didn't know um now the tables have turned

and i make more money than he's making

and we're still not talking and i

we have been to counseling i don't know what to do anymore and we're getting too old to continue this honestly because i'm going to retire one day and i'm going to be debt-free but how can i be debt-free if we're not debt-free now when you say you're not talking uh you mean not talking at all or not talking about money i'm not talking about anything okay you talk about everything else

um mostly mostly yeah we do actually

how would you describe your relationship let's take money off the table how would you describe your relationship on a scale of one to ten one being non-existent and ten you're you're you're in puppy love no we don't have any puppies right now but yeah right actually we're probably a seven a seven a seven

because what i hear in your voice is exhaustion yeah borderline resentment

and you if i had to guess

tell me i'm wrong okay if i had to guess you're experiencing what millions of women have experienced over the last 15 25 years which is once they begin to gain that

economic independence they don't got to put up with this crap anymore and at the same time

so it's not that i'm not well the reason i'm not there is because i love my husband and i'm not trying to get anywhere and and but you are right i am pushing back yeah you're absolutely right and i know that does he have i know rhonda does he have separate bank accounts as did i understand that am i picking that up oh well yeah there's another nightmare we we finally put our accounts together and

we were supposed to be talking about it and doing things right and we ended up filing bankruptcy and and then he took his money out of the account and so

for the last several years we actually finished a bankruptcy i know like some of the only people on the planet that actually finished one and we did um

he he turned around and took took his

money out doing the bankruptcy and said i'm going to pay the bankruptcy payment and then we'll use yours for this but i don't want the bankruptcy payment to get messed up and so he took his money out and now the bank's rope has been over for four or five years and the money's still all together but the only money in there is mine yeah so and i looked up

and take the money out and do it i'm like what are you doing so i go back to him i said dear what is this bill oh well that was this well all that was this was like okay what's going on with your money where's your money well you know i don't make that much anymore so it's i'm tired

yeah i'm telling you and i'm trying not

to do well you don't try not to be tired because that's gonna it's just gonna result in you taking those feelings and that's that's that is what resentment is right when you just smash and crush and hide those feelings they just

smolder and burn from inside out right and that you can't come back from resentment it's so hard to return from that it sounds like you're married to somebody who um has all kinds of struggles is that fair is he struggling with all kinds of things over the course of your 36 years yeah that's true and

i i really am in my heart i've talked to

i can't count the number of people i've talked to over the years this is rare you're talking your marriage is a seven i'm assuming your intimate life is awesome you are you laugh together you play you share meals you share chores

and this much heat comes from

the money part that's so so rare

well i love my husband does he love you

he knows it absolutely but not enough to be honest

and open in a person of integrity and character when it comes to money not knowing that his wife is so exhausted that she's falling apart under underneath this this burden

right because if you tell me somebody

loves me then they don't

the person that's walking alongside life with him doesn't feel like this does he know that you are this exhausted

yeah and what's his response

uh we'll talk about it later nope

they're not going to disagree with the i'm going to disagree well i'ma tell you this if you walked in and i was coaching you two in my living room i would tell your marriage is at a two not a seven yeah it's not even close to a seven and and i'm going to tell you something else um i don't think this is a does he

no i think you love him i think you love a i think you love a fantasy i think you love a myth but here's the thing john i'm going to say this i love saying things and letting you clinically explain what i'm saying it's like i'm going to drop a fact you give her the formula this is not about how much does he love how much he loves

you no this is he's broken i i think he does love you but this isn't about he needs to love her better i think this this guy is really really broken and he's trying to just keep his head above water he's trying to fill a hole or maybe several holes and his money behavior and everything else john is a derivative of that that's what i think yeah

i i i don't like to characterize people as broken right but i'm sorry you're he's hurting can i say that absolutely okay um and

he's hurting big time yeah this is somebody who's been struggling with who am i my role power suddenly

his wife over time starts making more money starts getting more of a voice and at some point and this this again this isn't just this family this is it this is a pandemic of men struggling over the last 25 35 45 years of being told you are the cause of these problems not understanding what my role is not understanding what hard work looks like plus feeling my feelings plus being able to sit down

i don't have the tools in my toolkit to have hard conversations i'm gonna do it tomorrow i'm gonna do it tomorrow i'm gonna do it tomorrow and the the women in our lives the kids in their lives are the casualties here and the chief casualty is just the men right so here's the thing um

you got to come to the table with your husband at the end of the day you're going to have to make peace with a guy that you're married to you say you love him you say it is what it is you're gonna have to go one more shot and you're gonna have to say this has to be different and then you're gonna have to have what they call in

the clinical world they call your or what moment are you gonna leave because if you're not then you gotta make peace with it and then get on about your life if you are going to leave you got to have that hard conversation preferably with a professional in the room because you don't want to be making threats and and threaten to walk away but you're at a place now where you've got to make

the decision if the person in your life won't change you can only control you right and you're going to have to either say this is a guy married this is what it is what it is we're going to ride this out or you're going to have to make some other life decisions right but that's where that sounds like where you're at this is 36 years it's almost four decades right yeah

i oh man this is

really tough yep and i want to encourage every single husband listening to this yeah

check in with your wives check in with the people you are married to tonight and and here's the deal get healthy i do believe this man loves her but this isn't you and i grabbing him by the collar and going love your wife no no this is he's got some hurt and some pain and he's trying to save it and she's in a really tough situation but do not quit i wanna hug this guy i wanna hug this guy i do too do not quit rhonda don't

quit please don't quit

we're not going to quit on you we got more of the ramsey show coming right up

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[Applause] welcome back to the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague dr john dalone you need to find out for

yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsay to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from jenny in florida she says i work for a large retail company who was able to stay afloat during the pandemic

because we were considered an essential business i was very fortunate to keep my job which i love however our company just announced to us that there would be no merit increases this year not even a cost of living raise but we are going to receive our bonuses for me it's probably about two thousand dollars i really love my job but is this a red flag to start looking elsewhere what no what are

you doing jenny let me

re-read your question back to you you start by saying i love my job but our company said no

merit increases this year which by the way uh the standard increase about three percent yeah yeah uh in american business let's go back let's go back before that my large company survived the pandemic

yeah hey hello we survived many did not no and their jobs did not so we survived yeah and i love it continue and

while they're not going to give a merit increase or a cost of living raise they are going to give out bonuses

ken you and i don't agree on a lot and for both of us to be like what are you saying dude

yeah jenny i appreciate the question no that's not a red flag you ought to be running in the neighborhood around the backyard in in the living room singing in the shower i'm so grateful that i get a bonus this year while many people are unemployed so no this is not a red flag i get a bonus doing a job i love not only is this not a red flag john

this actually speaks to the viability of this company yes that they were able to give out bonuses they managed their books well enough during the pandemic to actually be in a position to give out bonuses right and it wouldn't surprise me i've got zero data this i'm way into your territory here that we're gonna see this more and more moving forward because if a pandemic can come out of nowhere

and wipe us out right and our most

expensive thing is ongoing ever increasing payroll it makes sense to me that we're going to hand you a big pile of cash at the end of every year based on how this goes but we're not going to strap ourselves with this ever increasing payroll yeah right because then we only we have to continue to increase our costs et cetera et cetera man if you love your job

and your jobs i mean you're working for a company that can navigate this and still write your bonus checks yep some result time yeah now we don't have time for co-host counseling live on the air right but you just told america that we don't agree on much that's not true i want to talk to you about that why did you say that we agree on a lot

we agree on a lot of things do we

i'm just kidding i think we do a lot but you said it not me politics and economics we love to bicker back and forth right yeah we have different views but it's not like we're you know oh i didn't yeah i didn't mean that as well be careful what you say people think that we're fighting during the commercials no no no i'm just having fun with you all right eight triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five did

you like my co-host counseling i thought that was kind of a funny line you just you just went right over we could skip the uh i didn't get what you're saying i didn't know where you're headed with it no i like that you know we could counsel each other right here on the air we should do that you want to talk about some political topics right now no no by

the way before we get to the fights you want some advice don't talk politics with anybody no especially maybe not even your wife or your kids i just think it's gotten to the point where it's like ludicrous what what is the point like the dog i think that one of my doodles would argue with me at this point if i just said something in the house look at me like you're wrong you're wrong

so much vitriol too there used to be a day where you could sit around you know a martini or a beer with some people and just talk about all different points of view and everybody like that's interesting cool yeah

not anymore man no i'm going to learn to dump your grill over and yeah me and my me and my kids were taking our ball we're going home yeah yeah so don't catch a wine glass in the temple don't talk about it at all not good anyway triple eight eight two five five two two five people that's some good life advice there triple eight eight two five five two two five james is joining us in denver colorado james how can we help

hey how are you guys doing today well we're having a blast how can we help

um so i'll try to keep it short but i've got a couple of attributes to this question so

about a year ago i uh gave a personal

loan to my girlfriend of about three thousand dollars of that she has paid back 1500 so she

still has 1500 left on the agreement

since that time three things have happened number one

because of the pandemic she had to take a different job making about half the amount of money she was making number two we both started financial peace and we are both on baby step two and number three we recently got

engaged we're getting married in about six months given all that's going on right now i

kind of feel like it would be best to just

forgive the rest of the loan it doesn't feel right to me to keep it but i'm also afraid because our relationship has always been a 50 50 partnership that it's going to

come off like i'm trying to lord over her

or be better than her um

and i also have all the debts don't pay off so i was wondering uh should i just go ahead and try to tell her not to pay it back and how do i approach that

without seeming weird

okay you sound weird you do sound weird because i would never utter the phrase my fiance owes me money in a billion years that sentence can't come out of of my mouth no i don't know how it comes out of your mouth i don't think this is a her issue this is a usu this is a wee issue john my goodness i don't even know where to start well yeah there's a lot here so

if you are not able to have a conversation that says

hey i did something stupid we didn't

know we didn't know about um the we didn't have the wisdom about loaning money to people that were in uh romantic relationships with or friendships or family right give it away or say no

dude we're not we're done with this debt repayment situation if that becomes a lording over a power

struggle man you guys got to get to a premarital counselor tomorrow right you are not in a position to get married because dude the conversations y'all be having about kids and work and where we're gonna live and family and i'm sick i need some support they get harder and harder and harder this is a simple one absolutely

when is the wedding day uh

about six months six months from now well six months from now you walk down the aisle she doesn't owe you any more money

i guess i mean i guess i guess if she breaks up with you today or you break it with her then we can talk about that but if you're getting married it becomes our money it's hourly i mean i married stacey she had a masters in broadcast journalism i married her student loans

yeah yeah so so it wasn't like it wasn't like oh i'm paying every time i wrote a check and they go well i'm paying your master's degree that's right no you're in it together so james you you said you're you're both 50 50. is that a hard

who is this more challenging for

i i feel like it would be more challenging for her um it because that has always been a great sense of pride for her right that she is

you know her own person she's making a way in the world you know i i feel like it's something that comes from the way she was raised her family dynamics certainly something that i

personally would would push back against and i agree with everything that you're saying oh well then i think you just have to have a straight up conversation here to say hey you are who you are you're you're an independent woman you're all these wonderful things i loaned you some money big deal it's going to be our money don't even think of it that way you're going to help pay this whole thing off anyway yeah and this whole 50 50 talk brother it's

0.50.50 and you're about to become one you're gonna have to get with somebody and work on that before you all attach yourselves to each other forever man and don't be very careful about psychoanalyzing your fiance you only get with the premarital counselor today yes absolutely true

all right we're not done yet folks

don't move more of your calls coming up next this is the ramsey show

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welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman in studio with my colleague dr john deloney who's uh deciding now to join us everything okay over there words with friends on the phone before we come back from commercial break gotta tap you on the shoulder and say hey you know for me he's trying to solve some things i want to point out that we did not have a plate of barbecue

we we threw that out there we thought maybe it would magically appear earlier in the show did not happen gotta have a plan evidently bobby the engineer is falling down on the job back there in the control room the guy is a world-class cook um can absolutely grill smoke

i mean he's he needs his own restaurant he does he is his own restaurant he is his own restaurant bobby i was just saying you were you were doing engineer stuff earlier it would be great during the show next time delaney and i co-host they have a big giant platter of all things bobby barbecue some sausage some brisket

some chicken some pork some beef and all

the sides or as we say in the south fixins that's

f-i-x-i-n-s for people who aren't from the south that's an actual word all the fixins do you say that in texas no what do you say beans and cornbread salad now fixins

fixin's includes anything anything that's on the table that's not an entree is a fixing and there's zero percent chance bobby's gonna share not true that's wrong hey you know what

he talks to you that way bring it in here we'll put it on this side and i'll just do the heisman and i'll just eat while he's answering relationship calls and i'll wipe the mouth and we'll get into the other stuff all right we're having fun here bobby really is a world-class cook and i really would like to have some barbecue during the show and we'll just do

it when dave's not here yeah he doesn't care uh triple eight eight two five five two two five triple i'm really getting hungry i really am no you're you started a whole thing inside my heart and mind here man exactly triple eight eight two five five two two five back to the phones we go savannah georgia uh is where we're gonna

go oh you know what i'll get to this a second let's go to uh kevin uh in savannah georgia kevin how can we

guys i appreciate you taking the call you bet um yeah yeah so to give you some context me my wife got married about six months ago uh we've been doing super good we paid off um over twenty three thousand dollars and and college debt

thank you thank you we have about 1700 left now my question is uh so she recently got a offer actually earlier today uh for a different position in pennsylvania and right now we're kind of deciding whether to stay in savannah or where we make about 80k groves or

go to pennsylvania where we'll be making about 90k so about 10 grand more um that's about the difference for the two positions i work remotely so i can work either in savannah or pennsylvania and most and to give you a little more context most of our families in the northeast and pennsylvania and new york but we have been here for six months we're plugged into our church we've been doing very very great going to life groups

and all that so my question is should we just focus mostly on the money making a little bit more money so we can uh you know start putting um you know retirement savings and start investing in our future or should we just stay here knowing the expenses are a little bit less then kind of doing that interesting so john i get these calls a lot on the game show here man

so well kevin gets to answer this i can i could say what i think but that's not what this is about right this is about us guiding them kevin there's two of you in this marriage i want to know what you and your wife give me the two separate votes your vote first her vote as it stands right now which way you lean it so great question

so i mean olivia her name uh we actually don't know we we love georgia we've been here for six months like i said we love the south we went to school um i live in kentucky and in virginia she lives in in virginia and virginia and south carolina so we love the south we think we want to stay here and raise our kids we haven't done yet

but in the future but we're super tied down we're not too sure we've been praying about i've been fasting about it this week um i just we just don't know we're not really siding anywhere well i think you just gave us a clue i think in that answer you just kind of indicated you guys really love the south and you have at some point uh maybe through

the the short six months of your marriage you guys have uh kind of imagined a life in the south am i right uh-huh okay so here's the deal uh in this situation i think you guys i love that you're praying about it you guys are talking about it i think you guys could do the old-fashioned pros and cons list i love a pencil got one right here

i love a piece of paper got some right here i draw a line pros and cons for each of the moves pros

for staying cons for staying i don't think there's any cons other than the fact that you say well i'm going to get it my wife's going to get a ten thousand dollar bump but you said there's a cost of living so i would actually run those numbers john i'd run the cost and cost a living increase plus taxes in the state of pennsylvania and i would compare

it to your current income plus your taxes cost of living in savannah that's a pretty easy side-by-side comparison you can get pretty close there and i think i would do that for your brain for your logic because ultimately after the brain gets engaged john i think it comes down to the heart that's right and kevin i know how tempting it is when you guys have a plan

and the plan probably went something like hey we're going to live here for a few years then we're going to end up moving back northeast with all the family and then suddenly you like it right and yeah you get plugged in there and moving back home maybe isn't quite what it might have been cracked up to be and we had a plan but man we really like

it here well we kind

of beat you to it so i have the pros and cons list here that a boy yeah in a very kind of macro sense so the difference is about 5k give or take so we won't be making you know crazy tons more um but we are going to be closer slightly to our family so our kind of thinking is um that she has so the the hospital

here that she's working at it's a little bit larger and the one in pennsylvania is a little bit smaller so she'll have kind of growth potential a little better over there um so that's kind of the side on that and so he might be making more maybe two years on the line how old are you kevin i'm 24 and she's 24 as well okay so i'm going to give

you a magic gift you ready doesn't matter what you do you can't lose so true you you stay for two more years she's a hospital employee she's clearly good she's gonna have another opportunity you all moved to pennsylvania and realized what did we do this was disaster parents are annoying now that we're married they're hassling us come back to georgia come back to nashville come back to huntsville alabama there'll be plenty opportunities yep

so whatever you do look at it in 24 month chunks 36 month chunks you're not tied into anything this isn't the end of time for y'all don't get this it's not a forever thing here okay trust your gut kevin i know you

called because you're like i'm gonna run this by john and ken and i'm hoping they're gonna say that one of these is the clear winner that's what he was hoping for it's not our one it's not our call because there's not a clear winner that's right and i think what you said is beautiful i'm going to tell you that that's beautiful because because i think of some of

the moves stacey and i made early in our first year we were in richmond virginia for one year and then we took a great opportunity to come to nashville well you know what you could look at and go god directed our past and he did and you know but had we stayed in richmond it would have been great too you know that we overthink these things and

i gotta tell you john i'm a fan of getting your brain out of these decisions you're free i think it's the heart you're free i think i don't listen kevin i'm having some fun with you brother but this is all positive i don't believe you that there is not a

clear winner in your heart it might be john yeah 52

you know 48 it might be one of those deals it might be really close but i don't believe that given the just let's look at it let's get our head out of this deal which he's done the head stuff the good head stuff john i don't know what do you think i think he wants to stay i think i heard that too he loves the south and

i think they're trying to talk themselves into moving across the country for five thousand i'm going to add something else to it i don't think they're trying to talk themselves into it i think their family is trying to talk them into it and it gets back to this deal we don't want to let down the people that we love the most but we're going it does make sense that anybody any normal person would want to be near their family until

you know five thousand more dollars and then you go but that's not what my heart wants that's right and my guess is she could walk into the place that she works right now and say hey i have this opportunity and i'll get a looser for 500 a month follow your heart kevin that's right i don't think there's anywhere close oh i love that you can't lose brother

you can't lose hey uh our scripture today got a little out of order because i got excited about the barbecue but hey we're still getting it in john scripture today philippians 2 3 do nothing from rivalry or conceit but in humility count others more significant than yourselves today's quote one of my

mentors former leader had the privilege of working with this man john maxwell to add value to others one must first value others

that's good i tell you what not a lot of words but a lot of depth one of the great curses of our time yeah we don't value each other enough no we don't place the right amount of value on people hey i value you and you too man appreciate my colleague dr john delay i want to thank our producer ben hill our associate producer kelly daniel and you america thank you because

we do this for you this is your show and this is the ramsay show

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you

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## 203. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from March 8, 2021)


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| **Video ID** | `Cuw5PXp8b8E` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuw5PXp8b8E) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:29:52 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the dave the ramsey show where

america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is the national syndicated host ken coleman uh the host of the ken coleman show the number one career show in the world and today we are really excited to be talking with you here uh on the ramsay show uh because we're gonna be talking about your life your money your careers how to

land your dream job and then once you

get the dream job i'ma show you how to get some more money pay off some debt and build wealth yeah that's how it works that is you know you want to make more money let's get you a better job people ask all the time on the ken coleman show because they know i'm a part of ramsey's illusions hey ken can i change jobs while i'm in the baby

steps and the answer is yes because i do not prescribe that anybody jump off of a mountaintop wee you know we're just going to take a big risk no no no no that's not necessary and some of you out there are feeling

like you know what you want to do but you don't know how to get there we'll take your calls on that today i'll give you a very very clear path on how to get there some of you know what you want to do how

to get there but maybe you got some family holding you back you got some money problems holding you back that's where ao comes in and we'll work through that and get you on a plan and when you get your money plan going well then you can actually move towards that dream job a whole lot faster so we're taking your calls all across the board about your life we're really excited

so what are you waiting on i think i think somebody out there right now been listening they're going all right i'm i'm gonna call i'm gonna trust these guys and if you are triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh ken coleman anthony o'neil we are here to take your phone calls and we're going to go out to boston

and i love uh boston because

we have terry out there terry good afternoon how can ken and i help

hey hello thank you both for taking my call yeah my question today is regarding purchasing a used car um i've been following the steps and

we're on four five and six and i'm you know i need a new car but i'm not going to buy a new car so my question is when purchasing a used

car do you recommend certified pre-owned versus just pre-owned that's one

do i buy a warranty on these things um if i were to do it and if i pay cash typically do the dealers negotiate um when purchasing used cars uh man tara this is such a great question because i'm actually in the middle of this literally right now um i totaled my

vehicle uh back on uh february 14th actually valentine's day and so i am in the process of doing that but here's the very first thing terry uh that i want to ask you what's your budget so i i'm not worried about a warranty i'm not worried about cpo a certified pre-owned car what is what's your actual budget that's what you need to ask yourself right well presumably i get about four for my current car i would pay a total of 18.

will will it fit in this budget and if it doesn't then you up your budget do not do that so that's the very first thing i will say going out to new york city's have a conversation with danielle good afternoon

good afternoon um i have it's a little bit complex question but hopefully you guys can help me out yeah um i um

so i i have a great job i have i work for the state of new york and um but as everybody knows new york

is a very expensive state um i pay a lot of taxes my

mortgage my mortgage isn't what i owe my house is not that much but the taxes just kill me now my wife i have married i have

three kids um i make about 75

000 a year my wife works part-time and stay-at-home mom part-time also but we we are in baby step two i have i saved my thousand dollars and i'm i just have so much debt not so much debt but i owe about twelve thousand dollars in credit card i have a pension loan is about five thousand and my wife has a student loan that's twenty thousand now the issue i'm having is because my

mortgage and the taxes my i'm pretty much house poor my money goes all in what my house is my bills

my utilities now there's an opportunity where my grandfather um i could buy his house

for really low price in florida but it consists of me starting over and um

i don't know that's it's not a right away kind of thing but it's more of a future thing is that something i should do or consider doing i don't know well i think you have to consider it because of the financial opportunity but you only consider it as that okay if we move to florida our housing all of a sudden gets way way way more affordable but what do

you want to do with your life what work you want to do do you like the work you're in you know you have to look at the whole picture how's your wife feel about it the kids are probably young enough they don't care doesn't really matter but i think since that's a long-term opportunity anthony i think daniel what you've got to do is we got to figure out how to get your housing situation better right now

this florida thing's not something that's happening anytime soon so in order for you to get out of these baby steps a little bit faster let's look at how we can sell that home and maybe sacrifice our living uh to have a much cheaper living arrangement now to make progress for the future absolutely man and sorry for going danielle man moving too quick daniel i own that one man hey

this is the ramsay show

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find healthcare coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at ch chministries.org we

absolutely believe in it

[Music]

this is the ramsay show and jack is with us in new orleans good afternoon jack how can ken and i help hey thanks for taking my

call y'all yeah i am

wondering about how to help support my

mother she doesn't need it right now but she doesn't have enough saved up to retire when she wants to and i have the opportunity to make

either a lot of money

in my future career or less money

uh the trouble is a lot of money is going to come with a lot more work and not necessarily in the doing the kinds of things that i necessarily really love doing and i'm just trying to figure out how to prioritize that so are you asking that question as if uh

which decision do i make which is best for me or best for my mom sounds like that's how you're asking that am i understanding that correctly um yeah i mean i i'm you know i'm trying to thread the needle here i want to do both i guess no i don't think so i mean you you i know you want to help your mom but you don't want to take that career path that makes a lot of money

but has a lot of other sacrifices correct yeah yeah you'd be right about that the only reason you're even considering is because you think it'll put you in a position to help your mom play catch-up correct well well i mean it would be nice i got about 40 000 in student loan debt and the benefit of that would be that i wanted that i pay it off quicker right

and you know that's nice uh but i

i'm pretty decent you know i'm pretty decent at budgeting and saving money and and so i i don't need to do that i don't think so my point is i'm trying to help you hear how you sound it because the answer to that is no you know i'm never going to recommend somebody an ao wouldn't either to to go work in a

career or go pursue something that is going to cause all kinds of other long-term sacrifices that are not necessary to be made you don't have to make those kind of i don't like it it's not something i do but i'm just doing it to uh make more money and help mom out so so that that needs to come off the table now how to help mom you know to sit down with her uh i'll let ao take that one

but i mean this is this is sitting down with mom and going hey mom we got to start to take this really seriously and where do you want to be what is that what do you want that to look like i tell you what i do first i'd have her go to chris hogan's website chrishogan360.com and i would do the retire inspired calculator just to get some real numbers it's a really wonderful tool

and then then you then she knows what she's dealing with but reality and clarity is what we need right now with mom but i don't think you know that outside of helping mom with a plan helping mom with a goal uh but you to

make a professional decision even in small part to help mom that's not on you brother that's not on you yeah i agree how old is your mom

she's uh 55 55 okay cool and she has no

savings at all she has about a hundred in retirement

so she has about a hundred thousand dollars in retirement and um anything else does she have does she have any debt right now uh her house she's got about 100 left on the house 100 left in the house 100 000 in retirement okay and then any kind of income coming in right now she currently works she's a she's a nurse uh but she she works in like a high intensity kind of nursing

and she's she's already talking about how much strain has taken on her working so hard and so i have a feeling that she's going to step down into a lower paying position soon cool well jack i want to i want to tell you man i appreciate your heart as a son i can tell that you love your mother i can tell that you want the best for your mother um

i want to echo what ken said i totally 100 agree with him but i think now is the time you just start you got to have a real good conversation with your mom i would definitely say you know take your mom out to a nice dinner man and you pay for it and say mom let's dream here where are we going in the future i'm concerned i love

you i want the very best for you um but how can we set you up to win so this doesn't impact me and my family down the road but how do we start making decisions now that impact your tomorrow that impacts your retirement that impacts your future all of our futures and just walk through the steps with your mom definitely get her uh plugged in to um our colleague here uh chris hogan

i have her go to chrislin360.com walk her through her walk her through the retirement calculator and just start figuring out what can we do to start setting her up to win uh but how you help your mom is just by having the conversation not by putting more stress onto you and your you and your family personal friendly and so that's what i definitely recommend but i appreciate your heart my brother um

and and i believe god is going to bless you for your heart but just have the conversation man all right i appreciate y'all hey no problem at all no problem at all man uh brad is with us in wisconsin brad good afternoon how can we help well question isn't for me guys

well first of all thanks for taking my call this is for our 19 year old son he was homeschooled through high school out of 30 on his a.c.t loves god volunteers at church

and he decided to take his first year after high school to work and true to his word he has been working like a dog and he's doing very well at work but he doesn't know what he wants to do he is self-taught in graphics he built his own piece he was oh we lost

him boy we're getting to the gym i know it was it was it was getting good man i was myself oh boy it was okay we're gonna try to get him back we're gonna be trying so let's set this up while we try to get him back so here's a dad whose son very bright yeah says dad i

don't want to take a gap year and i'm going to work and he has so he's busting it right and so he's what but he doesn't know what he wants to do well 19 year olds have limited life experience so what do we

want to do as parents we don't want to get concerned about that because we got a kid who's very intelligent probably done very well in school has been working he said like a dog been working hard yeah uh and so that puts him in a situation where we've got a character kid we got a kid who's got good character yeah so what do we want to do

we want to go in and get some themes and i'm going to see if we can get this from dad when we get him on the line we want to get some themes of the type of work and we already started to hear it he's self-taught with graphics and right before he got disconnected he said he likes to build and so it sounds like to me we got a kid who ao with his head

and with his hands yeah he likes to be active and creative in some form or fashion so what we want to do parents is we want to look for the themes that we've been watching these kids uh with their whole life what are the themes what do we see where they they're really really good at something ao they naturally are gifted uh other kids or maybe even

another kid in the home struggles with one issue or one topic and this kid excels that's the talent piece and then what makes their heart get real excited when they're engaged in it that's the passion piece and the last piece is what do they want to produce in the world what result do they want to put out here in the world that makes them feel like i have done something that matters deeply to me

because i see a direct result of my work that's mission talent passion mission so the way that works ao a purpose sentence for anybody parents out there looking to start this conversation with a kid here's what it looks like you were created to use what you do best that's your talent to perform work that you love to do that's passion to accomplish results that matter deeply to

you that's mission yes that's your purpose now you can fill in the details for ao it's a little bit different for me right but that's how we begin to see this and for a 19 year old when you when you got a kid you're going oh they just don't know what they want to do yet well they have a pretty decent idea you just got to be okay digging yeah you're a youth pastor for years you've had

these conversations with parents and kids absolutely but ken i'm going to ask you this question he was a smart kid very smart how come he didn't go to college i suspect i suspect because i wish dad was on the line we're gonna try to get him online i suspect it's one of two things maybe both one the kid kind of knows i'm not sure that traditional college is

the best way to get where i want to go right but that's a that's almost taboo to a lot of families yes for a kid to even say that and then the second reason is is uh i think he's wondering

deep down yeah what he really wants to

do he's trying to figure it out it's one of both so he's going i actually just want to take a year because he may be this kid who goes i just want to see what it is before i commit to something else he could be that mature it's not crazy to think that he could be that mature to go i'm not sure yet so i'm going to work a little bit save up some money

and maybe he's read debt free degree am i right i love it there's a third reason why you didn't go i wish we could take a poll right now if your kid was this smart um i want y'all to answer this out loud why are you driving in your cars while you're watching this on youtube if your son or daughter was smart and they came to you

and said mom dad i don't want to go to school i want to go work would you tell them no you're going to school or you're working when we come back we may talk about that a little bit more hey i love this one we gotta get him back on the line kelly this is the ramsay show

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five this is the ramsey show one and only national syndicated host uh

the number one career radio show in the world and i mean that i know my producer's saying in the world yeah you can listen to him on podcast can call me and uh my name is anthony host of the popular youtube show the table with anthony o'neil and before actually not right before the break but on our last segment uh brad was on the line and he was raving about his son

and just speaking highly of him and unfortunately we got disconnected so uh brad we want to come back to you and we really want to finish this conversation because it sounds like you have a sharp young man and we want to help you out however we can so go ahead and finish what you started before we got disconnected yeah well hope this

one works better thanks for calling me back yeah uh yeah our son mike our son micah is an amazing young man he's always been able to have conversations with adults he was homeschooled by his mom as are his two brothers all the way through k through 12. he is

self-taught graphic artist he has done some graphics for his youth group at church he assembled his own computer at 16.

an avid reader loves to work out

and at his job they tried to make him a manager at 16 but had to wait until he was 17 because that was their policy

and he just doesn't know what he wants to do he knows he doesn't want to take on a bunch of student debt chasing a degree he may or may not want at this time and he's got like twenty thousand dollars saved up um my my wife and i are everyday millionaires we both grew up without any spoons in our mouths whatsoever just hard work and getting after it and

it hurts me to see him not have any direction i i know if he went to a university in the people's republic of wisconsin he would get in trouble because he's very opinionated very conservative and loves the lord and

i i don't think it would go well for him so okay guys given that what would you tell this kid

well first of all i want to talk to you before i tell you what to tell him i want to tell you dad you need to relax yeah i mean i'm serious you're a good man but you need to relax you got yourself a rock star in the waiting and you're you're hurt he is i know but you can't like on one hand you just gave us

this glowing resume of your son and and i believe it but on the other hand you're like well it just hurts that he doesn't know what he wants he's 19 and he's a kid who knows enough to

say i don't want to commit to college and and go into some type of financial situation that is not sustainable long-term he doesn't want to go into debt for something he's not sure he'll use this is a kid who's actually really really really level-headed and you and your wife have done a fantastic job and i applaud you for that so number one dad he's 19.

well to back up we've already had that discussion with him good told him several times how proud we are of him he's an amazing kid and i've told them i said micah if i had it to do over again i wish i didn't go to college right out of high school i says no pressure my friend i said we

love you we'll support you what does he like to do he loves doing graphics good and

anything anything computer related he's that kid that if you have a problem with your computer you go up to him and you say you know this isn't working can you tell me why i didn't give you half an hour on why it's not working and how to fix it what is he doing now is that is that related to the job he's doing now no when he was 16 he started working

at a restaurant that it's a popular burger and fry place it opened over two years ago okay he was one of their first employees and now he's been a manager for a year and a half here's what i want you to do tonight i want you to ask him if if he knew that he could not fail but he didn't have to commit for the rest of his life what profession would

he try for fun just a fun adventure and my guess he's going to say something to do with graphic design or something technology related wouldn't you guess yes yes you're correct then let's get him in that go online tonight get him to say that and then you go awesome let's do some research together how can me and your mom support you to try several things in that area

so have him list out graphic design maybe one um i'm making this up right now

video game design too you know whatever he says and then go online and look for training programs that are online

and it could be at a state school it could be in a non-traditional uh non-college type thing could be just a a private sector training thing i tell you right now uh you need to go to betheltech.net brad right now betheltech.net they sponsor and partner the concur with ken coleman show and they're training people you ready for this in less than nine months and less than fifteen thousand dollars they're getting people ready for the technology industry and they have an eighty-five percent emplacement rating starting at seventy five thousand and up

would you would you be surprised to know that my lovely bride already brought that up to him several months ago all right so at bet at bethel and we asked him is yeah what about bethel and he said well i don't want to get a job that i can be replaced

he seems to think that kind of work eventually is going to be obsolete well if he's 19. he doesn't yeah he didn't know what he's talking about

here's the point i'm just giving you them as one option if he wants to do graphic design and things of that nature then then get him a graphic design training program see if he can get a job locally uh he's 19. he's got a good paying job

what if he shadowed a couple of graphic designers in your area what if he worked for free uh for a couple of hours a week five to ten hours a week if you will uh following something about those are the things that he needs to do right now brad and once he gets a hold of it and he tastes it and he sees it and he gets experience with it um he's going to come up with it but you've got to encourage him and and push him towards the path he's

already looking down yeah don't over complicate this yeah don't do it don't do it at all and brad also just i want to say this he's 19. let him make some mistakes you know uh don't fight him on everything that he says don't fight him on everything that he does you know hey give him let's explore yeah and just really really let him uh explore america do you ever feel like

you're always you always be stuck paying off your debt

or that you'll never have extra money to save and spend how you want if that sounds like you then it's time for a new way of thinking you have to you have to believe you can get rid of debt and take control of your money because here's the thing you can and it will not take nearly as

long as you think it will with ramsey plus we'll kick you off with 90 days of guided help so you can put more of your money back in your bank account not theirs but yours you'll learn practical ways to get small consistent wins that add up to big

huge results and better habits and that means you'll get you'll get where you want to be faster 100 debt free and spending your

money without worry this year you can let me say this again

you can make more progress on your debt

and saving than you ever have get ramsey plus and start living the life you want faster to reset your money and

to start ramsey plus for free america for free do me a favor

ashley no do yourself a favor go to daveramsey.com that is daveramsey.com right now

and sign up for ramsey plus 100

free for 90 days listen uh ramsay plus

changed my life years ago ken

um because inside of ramsay plus is financial peace university and when i took that class i was drowning in debt i didn't really understand the power of true stewardship and i mean when i took that class not only did i understand the biblical meaning of stewardship the correct meaning of stewardship but now i knew how to move forward now now i know how to move forward with my finances

and i'm telling everyone right now financial peace university inside of ramsey plus with all the great stuff ramsay plus offers you are missing out if you're not a part of this community join the community and i promise you it would change not just your life but your kids kids life but your family's life this is the ramsay show

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triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we have one full line just opened up uh kelly is standing by and she will um i was about to say happily take

your phone call she's always happy to answer your phone calls but she chooses who actually i'll get the makes makes it through so give her a call let her know uh the question and she will let you know if you can come through if you make it through ken and i would love to talk to you just like how we're about to have a conversation with paul in dallas texas good afternoon paul how can ken

and i help good afternoon guys thank you for taking my call yeah um so look i just started listening to the show last month we are currently on data step number two

my household income is 89 000 i'm the only one that works my wife stays home with our one year old

baby and my question is the only debt that we have is my car uh which is around 32

000 32 000

yeah 32 000 what kind of car is this

this is a lincoln netherlands

okay so you're driving nice nice what year is it yeah it's a 2019. okay yeah you're driving real nice nice nice yeah i wish that i would have

known that the baby was coming you know i would have gotten something else yeah i understand um anyways so

but but but that's the only depth that we have we don't have any credit card or anything else um but my question is

like i was saying i just recently started uh listening to the show so i'm already contributing 15 of my income

between my 401k at work and my ros ira

uh and my 401k is also rough so it's

i i have both on roth my question is

uh obviously i'm trying to pay off the car as quickly as i can at least that's my plan so my question is should i pause my 401k contributions to then use that

extra money to send on top of what i already sent for my car and try to pay that off

as quickly as i can paul what you just said sounds so beautiful like you literally just answered your own question that sounds amazing uh what you just said is should i pause investing into my future so i can take care of my present so i can set my future up to be sitting

sitting on solid foundation yes so the

answer to your question is absolutely um you have two scenarios

here okay um scenario number one is

some people are probably screaming he needs to go sell the car uh that's what probably a lot of people are saying if you go sell the car and you go buy you something cash and use i don't have a problem with that but with this being your only debt compared to your income i don't have a problem with you keeping it as long as you get aggressive

after it you know but if you i think you and your wife need to sit down and say hey you know what uh this is a lot of car okay um i mean

if it's 30 some thousand dollars right now this means you probably bought it at 50. you bought it brand new yeah it was brand new it was like i guess 43 or 44 yeah yep yep 43 44 and after taxes you paid about 50 grand and so you've already have about 12 13 000 invested into this vehicle so if i was in your shoes with this being your only debt i'm going to stop all my investments i'm going to figure out how can i even generate an extra 15 grand this year

to go towards that i'm trying to figure out how to have this car paid off within the next six months before before the baby comes that's what i'm really trying to do and if you look at it and you see you can't pay it off this year within the next six months to a year by the end of this year i'm selling the car i'm gonna sell

the car and i'm going to buy me something cash but if you can get aggressive paul i would say keep it just pay it off okay yeah because my only concern was that you know um i'm i'm i'm shooting to retire by 57

okay so my my only concern was like you

know i'm probably gonna lose out a year or maybe like 15 months you know while i pay off the car uh in the sense that i won't be going contributing uh that was my only concern because you know i don't i don't really want to go over like 57 would be ideal and i know i can make it but i don't really want to go over 60.

all right paul so paul let me let's just jump in here how much is the car worth today if you sell it kelly blue value 26

000 okay so you're upside down at it a whole lot yes yes yes a lot uh

well so again you get to determine i mean first of all you're not going to lose that much ground no uh that's that's a myth that you're going to lose that much ground on your retirement investing you're going to be able to make up ground by the amount of money you're going to put into it when you're debt free so i would i would go at this car everything

you got you know and again i'll just tell you this is me personally i think ao is absolutely right i don't disagree with what he's saying i'm gonna tell you if it was me feeling what you're feeling i'd sell

the car dave's given this advice before and i'd go get the the six thousand dollar you know difference in a loan and uh and

and and then whatever cash you've got you know you get something that's just reliable a five thousand dollar car or whatever and then pay off that six 000 and then you're right back into the plan that's what i would do that would speed everything up yeah a whole lot do you have any savings at all right now

uh what i have is uh

fourteen hundred dollars for you know for for baby step one okay um that's that's all that i have

uh i know i'm getting at least like five thousand dollars on my tax refund this year okay uh that i'm planning to put towards

uh the car right okay uh so i know

that's coming probably late this month okay uh because i already found my taxes yeah um so that will be extra money that i

have coming in but other than that i have i have 1400 hours

in in saved yeah so and then

i don't know if it helps you guys i'm also like i i have around 84 000 right between my

401k and my bus yeah and i'm 33 years

old yeah so you're in great shape yeah you're in great shape they're fine just knock this car out yeah however you choose to do it knock the car out you're not going to get behind retirement yeah and paul here's the thing man you have to sit down and ask yourself do i want to it should not take you a year and a half to pay off this car

if you're going to decide to keep the car you have to get aggressive after it you have to say you know in the next six months i'm going to attack this thing or you could take ken suggestion is go sell it take out a loan for the six thousand for those of you are hearing this oh my goodness they're saying take out a loan listen he's going from a 30 plus thousand dollar loan down to a 6 000 loan

he paid off a lot of debt right there so we don't have a problem with that but the problem he's going to run into is can he doesn't have the cash yeah so to go purchase the card well that's where i take that tax refund i go buy myself a 4 000 car and then i put a thousand on the six

and now i only owe five and i'm rocking and rolling yep so there's just ways to do it absolutely you know and and making 90 000 a year

i'm trying to figure out how do i generate another 15 grand and have this car paid off within six months it's a nice car you know and so um

i would get aggressive on my end especially at 33 years old man he could be driving for uber he could be driving we met a young lady last week not last week but the week before that can um i don't know if he was no's john me and john met met a young guy he made 78 000

in one year driving for uber yeah so

if you get aggressive if you are determined it can happen yes and it will happen yes but you have to be the one to say you know what i'm going to do this and so there's no way in the world i'm making 90 grand it's going to take me a year and a half to pay off and here's another way i mean we just said he could

he could go bust it work a couple jobs take that tax payment and he could actually get that car car what he owes on the car down to where if he sells it he does make some money absolutely i mean there's we've given him three ways to get there um the reality is though paul

um ao is right it's the right question yes you need to walk the baby steps out we we pause retirement and we walk out the baby steps you got the thousand dollars in the emergency fund and now we're gonna pay the car off then we get to the three to six months emergency fund then we start doing 15 yes towards our retirement so walk it out you're 33 years young yes you're in good shape you're going to be fine you're going to make up

so much more ground walking the plan absolutely man and what's the point of investing into your future you don't even have a an emergency fund you might have a child come no get out of debt get you three to six months set aside and then boom start investing into not just your future but even now your new child's future come on now let's think america let's take oh man man

this is a great hour ken always always fun to be with you always fun wanna thank kelly uh james and everybody in the studio over there uh this is

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit daveramsey.com show and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell your story

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story [Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your

money and especially today your career moves my name is anthony o'neil host of the popular youtube and podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me is number one national bestselling author and uh also host of the number one career show uh in my opinion in the world thank you the ken coleman show is very creative we spent many many hours yes and lots of dollars coming up with that creative name i know that was very creative i was wondering where did you get the ken coleman

and hey listen so we're gonna do a little ken coleman show along with the table with anthony o'neil plus some ramsay show all together we're talking about your life your money and we'll take your calls about hey i'm not where i want to be i need a bigger shovel ken help me figure out how i can do something i'm good at something i love create results i want and make

the money hey man so when you make the money with ken come over and holler at me you know i'll show you how to use the money that's it you know this a tag team it works well

you know what kelly james we need to do this more often okay career get the money me i'll show you how to spend the money how to use it wisely let's go ahead and make this happen as a matter of fact uh i'll talk to dave i'll tell him he can take some time off and all right we'll take care of this yeah copy me on that [Laughter] kelly wants to meet copy now as well

because things really go well when people tell dave this oh yeah i'm gonna tell them you know what that i'm gonna tell dave you know that's what i'm gonna do go golf in two more days on me as a matter of fact oh you know he probably will he probably you're paying then man knows how to save a buck he knows how to save a buck oh man hey

this is the ramsey show give us a call kelly is standing by the phone lines right now triple eight eight two five five two two five triple

eight eight two five five two two five i see one line is open um but right now we're gonna go out to minneapolis and talk to andrew andrew good afternoon how can ken and i help ken and anthony thank you so much for taking my call today my wife and i are currently in fpu and it's been such a blessing for us we walked into this with 143 000 of non-mortgage debt

and in the past uh five weeks of doing this class we've been able to pay off roughly fifteen thousand dollars wow way to go andrew that's awesome come on somebody come on yes sir i feel that i feel the lord yeah right right and it's all because we've done a lot of the steps right we've been able to renegotiate things from internet to we've cut out cable

and stopped acting normal right got the budget going and then you know looked at universal life policies like this was crazy what are we thinking right so getting into terms so uh we're able to flow about uh an extra you know doing all those steps about extra 800 bucks a month just to our bottom line you know we have more money to play with but uh you know we're like

i said we're in uh you know step five i mean i'm sorry baby step two and wanting to pay off that uh 143 000 and and deep in myself i just want to continue to be gazelle and i have a great job and you know our net income is roughly about 107 000 a year and i want to pick up a side gig and i i

have a passion for real estate and i always enjoy it i love learning about it and watching my friends buy homes and stuff like that and i have this desire possibly to get my real estate license but i know it's going to be roughly a thousand dollars up front right but i'm sitting on a hundred and you know roughly now let's call 118 000

uh i'm sorry 123 000 in debt

is it wise for me in in this current state and being in baby step two to invest that thousand dollars to get my real estate license to help continue to be gazelle uh and do that on the side uh while i do my normal gig i'll be quiet and listen to you guys how much research have you done into what it takes to win as a real estate agent um

uh with the amount of time that you're gonna have because you've got a full-time job so have you done any research talking with some successful people and what it takes to get started how many hours they recommend i'm just curious what your thoughts are on that yeah yeah and you know uh to be completely transparent there hasn't been a lot of deep dive recently uh it was something that was on my mind three four five years ago

so i sat down with a couple uh real estate agents and and brokers in the area uh and you know almost every single person was like you can't do this part-time you can't do this part-time is true but then i i do see some people that say hey you can do this part-time uh and i would say right now i'm not in

the place where i would want to leave my job i feel like i have the dream job i love what i do and it pays well uh so all right so here's my take i think that's where i'm stuck no it's good it's absolutely great i wanted to know what you thought because i've talked to some some great real estate uh professionals people that are that train other real estate professionals and and and you cannot do real estate

part-time as a full-time income but if you're doing it part-time as a part-time job i absolutely think you should do it because i think you can do it well for part-time so let me repeat what i said those people have told you that they're absolutely right you can't do real estate part-time if you want it to pay full time but if you want to just sell a house here and there and let's say you make a nice 12 000 commission or 18 or 12 or 30

or whatever it is okay uh depending how big the house is in your market you can use it to pay off debt and in that case uh if you're doing nights and weekends and you're busting at your gazelle intense you're trying to show homes at nights and weekends as a part-time side hustle to help pay off debt absolutely i think you should spend the thousand dollars to get qualified i really do uh i i agree i agree i would

say do a little bit more research and again i'm not i'm not an expert in this area ken is an expert in career field uh but

i do think there's a little bit more upfront investment in the real estate agents like you got to pay for signage you got to pay for marketing at the house and stuff like that i mean i could be wrong but i think there there are a little bit more so what i would suggest if you go this route i want you to be very careful on how much money you're pulling away from paying off debt to possibly sell some houses so i

like the idea yeah but i do think that there are like you got to pay for signage you got to pay for do you have a broker relationship already that you're working somebody would take you under their wing for those kind of expenses that i was talking about you know i i do not uh like i said i have some really good friends that have been doing

this uh for many years uh actually i've got a couple friends have been doing it for 20 30 years right that's where you start that's where you start today as a matter of fact before uh before this week is over you need to have had several conversations whether in person on the phone to actually go through what anthony's talking about i took you at face value on

the thousand dollars for just the getting trained in the testing but uh if you get i would love for you to get underneath somebody who's a really successful broker in the area that would cover a lot of that stuff she wouldn't have to worry a lot about that and they take you under their wing ideally some of those people have been in there a long time if

you sit down and go hey guys i've always wanted to do this um

can you guide me yeah would you bring me along that's good and explain why you're doing it say hey i'm trying to knock out 143 000 in debt uh i think that's a wonderful wonderful strategy yep i totally agree i totally agree andrew hey i'm rooting for you man you are winning yeah i mean 15 000 paid off in the last two weeks and you could tell he's really excited yeah he's really really really really excited about paying off his debt

and i love how you you're starting to think okay what can i do to generate some more income just be wise find you a broker so they'll take on the fees for you and if they do go hard man go hard you'll be out of debt this year six percent on a three hundred thousand dollar house now he's gonna pay taxes on that but that's still a big chunk towards dutch that's beautiful that's been

i like that this is the ramsey show

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edward is with us in birmingham good afternoon edward how can ken and i help hello

hey edward uh anthony

yes sir how can we help man hi

a huge privilege speaking with you thank you for taking the call yeah

uh this one because i got some several

dilemmas recently uh got out of the military about a little less than a year ago i've been in fellowships walking with the lord and i've been following along with the ramsey show for quite a while the family is uh rather difficult to get along with doing a lot of uh exactly what's taught on the dave ramsey shows specifically what not to do already enrolled in financial peace university

and some of the dilemmas here is being at square one now or already seeing a therapist uh to have a meaningful conversation and to use the right words here but long story short just wrestling with a quality place to begin

can you be more specific i i was tracking with you a little bit where to begin what yeah

the word began at least with uh like employment getting back up uh getting back up on the seat uh okay gotcha that was a lot of time uh dealt a lot of toxic leadership and that time not to necessarily unpack anything here but the long story short uh been

struggling trying to actually put any teachings like into uh any kind of practicality here okay so uh first of all thank you for serving us on our country you're a great american um what what have you sought to do when you get out of the military what field do you want to be in what kind of work do you want to be doing

well been praying regularly for that

[Music] fortunately dealing with uh now having a freedom and latitude here

there's a variety of options available whether it be as a temporary uh solution here

lows are uh construction

but unfortunately wrestling with some uh

difficulty or uh figuring out what that next move is meant to be okay so here's the deal here's that's okay i feel like we're not quite sure what when you say you don't have freedom or latitude what do you mean i mean getting out the marine corps it wasn't a choice that actually had for uh to make it the contract was over but now i do have a lot more freedom here okay

so you're out of the military and and from my understanding you correctly you can decide wherever you want to go in birmingham alabama and and go apply for a job nothing's holding you back from going after work correct

essentially well yeah essentially so yes

all right and and so what would you try tomorrow what what why are you just limiting yourself to a home improvement store what do you want to do what would you do edward if you knew you couldn't fail if you didn't have to spend any money to get qualified i just put you in it right now what would you do what would you try

uh maybe in the justice department

great and be more specific what would you do in the justice department what's that look like well uh

yeah go ahead and say dating there's

only work to really come to mind right now okay and you've always been somebody who really is kind of intrigued and you kind of get down to the details you ask lots of questions that's something that's kind of a pattern in your life is that that talent of of investigation

well there is a very regular pattern of asking questions and trying to understand to understand something yeah unfortunately

there's uh people skills can be a little bit rusty that's okay here's the deal so you want to figure out how to so right now are you employed at all no okay you need to get employed that one of the worst things that can happen to anybody is to be out of work for a while it causes tremendous trauma you begin to start to doubt your self-worth and then that's a really really slippery slope how long have you been out of the marines

uh almost a year okay and you've not been working looking for it no i didn't say that i said have you been working at all since you've been out of the military no you need to so let's get out let's get out tomorrow did you you were you honorably i mean there was no dishonorable discharge none of that correct no it's just uh general discharge okay so so edward listen you got to get your mojo man and so until you can figure out

what type of work you'd like to do in the just department whether that be on the local level the state level or the federal level you need to start looking into that today what does it take to get qualified what are the types of jobs do i want to be a law enforcement officer do i want to work for the fbi and be more on the criminal

and forensic side you've got to start really looking into that stuff and and when you do so your heart is going to uh really make it very clear to you that oh that seems exciting to me and then we look into that we say what does it take to get there meaning how do i get qualified then we ask well how how much is that going to cost how long is that going to take based on my financial realities my friend

you need to be working right now so if you want to go work at a home improvement store i'm all for that i'm all for a second job you're a young man you've got to get anthony he's got to get feeling good about himself again to say i'm working i'm bringing in money i now have a plan

to look and investigate some ideas for my future once i look at those then i come up with the other plan again i gave you the four questions here are the four qualifying questions ao that'll help people not be so so freaked out by the unknown number one once we have an idea of what we'd like to do we look into say what does it take to get qualified four questions

the experience excuse me the education question is first what do i need to learn it doesn't have to be a traditional college degree could be a training course certification whatever second question is the experience question what do i need to do third question is the economic question how much is that going to cost me and then finally based on my financial reality yes the budget how long will

this take me to

cash flow my way through it debt free degree is an example of that anthony's book so once we get the answers to those four questions ao we've got ourselves the ingredients of a recipe if you want to use that analogy so oh we know how to cook this i know how to do this and this young man needs to get hired he needs to start working stocking some money away

so that he can pay and cash flow his way through this process okay you hit that one on the head man i read a study recently you're a former pastor i read a study recently that said that when someone is out of work is up to six months ao listen to this

that the trauma is the same the emotional trauma is the same as losing a loved one oh man and you understand this as well as anybody speak to that that speaks to somebody's i they're like hey i'm not doing anything i don't feel like i'm making a difference i don't feel like i matter we know that's not true not true but that's how they feel but i mean

i think when you and again i don't know the study so i could be off i'm just going by a general thought i think that study is probably even higher with men yes you're right because men we identify ourselves by what we do by providing for our families or providing for ourselves so we're not able to provide we feel that we've lost a huge part of who

we are as a man and let's be real yeah we have and so uh i agree that this young man needs to get out there just so he can have peace with okay i am a working man then from there he needs to be

connected with you your brand to really start identifying okay what's my sweet spot where do i go from there yeah let's make sure kelly that edward goes to my website kencoleman.com

get the career clarity guide a very simple free worksheet worksheet under my resources page that will walk him through the exercise to begin to get more ideas and really verify this idea of law

enforcement of the justice system

and to begin to see what's what's out there one of the things you and i preach to young people is if you've got a general direction of which way you might want to go go look at multiple if you say well i'm interested maybe in medicine and healthcare well go shadow go meet a nurse practitioner yes or a physician's assistant or a surgeon or whatever and begin to

explore what it's like to do this work day in and day out absolutely man can you hit it all good man that's why i like doing a show with you because you know how to answer the question and teach man about being a professor i'm trying to hang with you man you're the professional preacher i'm trying to hang with you i'm just a preacher's kid so i just got a little bit by osmosis you know what i mean just being in the house you know y'all man we have one phone

line just open up triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five keller standing by we would love to take your phone calls right here on the ramsey show

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my name is anthony o'neill hosting with me today co-hosting together uh ken coleman uh the radio host of the kenny coleman show and my name anthony o'neil host of the popular youtube show uh the table with anthony o'neil uh before we go any further you know i really want you all to make sure uh that you all are listening uh every single day to the king coleman show um it's available every every weekday on siriusxm uh your local radio stations wherever

you listen to podcasts i would definitely say get up in the mornings if you're looking at how do i land my dream job how do i even improve build relationships with inside of my dream job how do i go from where i'm at now to a higher level with inside of my dream job i really want you to connect with my dear friend um and my colleague ken coleman who's

the host of the ken coleman show where he focuses on works that matters follow him on facebook at king coleman's show also instagram and twitter the ken coleman not the king coleman show on instagram and twitter but the ken coleman and they get the book the proximity principle the proven strategy that will lead to the career you love and i'll tell you right now america he's working on something special

he got two big things he's working on i won't say it because i don't want to get in no trouble because that's not my brand oh but america when i tell you you want to be following his show you want to be following him on instagram because he is working on things that that's going to impact all of us including myself and so i i want to encourage

you all to please listen to him listen to the show call into the show ask him some questions read his book follow him on instagram thank you my man hey man i appreciate that but listen now i get to i mean the table is now in podcast form it is people know you on youtube the table's been rocking on youtube in fact last year an explosive year would be a mild way of putting

it but now you're bringing the table audio to podcast wherever you listen to your favorite podcast go check it out because you're taking on some big conversations and uh this is really good stuff i highly recommend it because anthony's got his finger on the pulse uh so every episode excuse me every monday he's got a new episode the table now in podcast form not just on youtube

so doing some good stuff over there thank you ken that's the big tag team yeah man lift each other hey i was on fox news last week you are and they have to ask me a question and student loan debt came up so here i am and i just did a little whoop just church just just moved over a little bit said hey let me tell you about my colleague let me let me get that out let me tell

you i'm a colleague anthony o'neil i did i did i threw my own i threw my own pass and dunked it for my man yeah the number one best-selling book debt-free degree and i think it's still as relevant as the day he wrote it because we got a lot of kids are going to come out of school ao in may and they're gonna be saddled with crazy debt

they are they are it's right over there look at that it's right over there left as i say it it's in my my peripheral on the bookcase listen looking good all right ken i'll uh i'll give you a good tip when we get off i love it let's help some people let's help some people but hey triple eight eight two five five two two five we have one phone line open man y'all y'all are calling in like crazy today kelly's standing by uh

she can squeeze one person in uh for this segment but hey give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five let's go out to toledo ohio have a conversation with charles charles good afternoon how can ken and i help hey thanks for taking my phone call um

got married in in 17 uh 2017.

we had we do have joint accounts all of our accounts are our joint accounts both on both

we got married well

the question is i'm wondering if i should let her finish paying off her car or if i should just do it for myself because i'm getting tired of having it now to explain that you know after saying we have joint accounts yeah when we got married the agreement

was she was going to stay home and do some couponing about time we got married i started couponing and i really fell in love with couponing i i loved it i i felt like i was stealing from the stores you know they were paying me to carry their stuff out of the stores so i told her you know i said i make pretty decent money 28 dollars an hour

i said uh you know and i can work all the hours i want i work pretty much 60 hours right now sometimes one more a week i said i'll make the money you stay home and save us money take care of the kids take care of the house you know go to the gym et cetera

none of that really happened very well and i finally assumed okay maybe she just can't coupon well she has a hard time looking at two products and knowing which one's the better deal you know so she ended up getting a

part-time job thirteen dollars now which is about all she's ever done as retail stuff and so i'm trying to encourage her to

because i know when i paid off my car when i had a loan before for my car i paid it off and that felt great so i told her i said okay when you get your paycheck every other friday you know take out what you want for you you're spending money and then put the rest on the car yeah and she's been plinking

away at it about uh four or five maybe six hundred dollars every two weeks it's like trying to shoot a bear with it okay hold on all right all right all right all right charles okay i tried i appreciate what you're saying yeah something's not lining up so if you two are on joint accounts that means you guys are making your money decisions together then you shouldn't be calling us asking us

if you should pay off your wife's car and then you tell us a story that she's not paying enough out of her 13 hour job if you've got the money to pay it off pay it off why do you need my permission or ao's permission and you certainly don't need her permission other than buying to say this is our money but you're you're saying you have joint accounts

but you're acting as though you have two separate uh accounts and and she's just kind of paid it off whenever she wants to if you want the car to be paid off sit down with her and cast vision and say we're gonna pay it off i i don't know what's missing here

the only thing i left out and i apologize for leaving this out is i wanted her to feel good about paying

it off so maybe she could do what i did which is like wow i paid that off i need to go make more money no it's not working my life you know charles she's not wired the way you're wired you're mr coupon guy not her yeah yeah and here's the problem that i keep hearing charles and and and i'm not married so i

you know i told the producer james the other day i'm gonna be careful how i say things because i'm not married all right set me up and then i'll hit it i'm gonna set you up all right uh they can't be divided i keep hearing her car her money her this and it's not a we it's not a are we gonna do this is not our account it's her money this that i feel separation within a

marriage yeah is this the only debt you have

it is other than the house mortgage and i was just hoping it might be encouraging no stop charles charles charles we've already gone down this path i'm not i'm i'm gonna keep cutting you off if you keep trying to go down this you're treating her like she's your teenage daughter i can't wait to get married dude how much is the car how much is how much is owed on

the car 700 bucks that's been killing me for the last five oh my gosh i'm hanging on the phone it's the first time i'm gonna hang up on somebody yeah hang it up i can't do it i can't do it no more this is ridiculous charles this is ridiculous pay the car off today oh my gosh i've never ever hung up on anybody what's going on this just happened

he said

i thought he was gonna say like 8 000

i'm trying to get my wife to pay off the car with her 13 an hour job 700. i want her to feel good

pay the car off

oh i didn't say nothing but listen there's i'm not even see i'm sorry james i'm not even asking my wife i'm just cutting the check i'm just gonna cut the check baby i paid off your card um you know what i do i would i'd spend 750

tonight 700 to pay the car off 50 on flowers and tell her what you did come on what is happening here she's clearly not interested in paying it off we got a communication problem on top of all this oh my goodness okay what a good guy but now charles listen you're a good man your heart's in the right place i think your brain is totally in a different place

you all need to get back on the same page and say i'm making this decision for us this isn't about having your wife feel good about herself get rid of the 700 get out of debt this guy he wants to yeah he knows how and you know what as a matter of fact i would suggest that you too you two together go listen to one of our uh teammates here john deloney

you all need some counseling together you all need to talk through this together because uh there's no way in the world i'm having this kind of conversation with my wife i'm just being honest i'm sorry if i offend anyone about i'm not baby i paid off the car god bless you i love you here's some roses this is the ramsay show

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welcome back to the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague anthony o'neal and ao i'm excited about this

because uh we need more great people

yes sir to do great work uh ramsey solutions we're all about transforming lives we want to disrupt the toxic culture in the area of money obviously work relationships mental emotional health and beyond and to be able to do that level of disruption we need great people who are sold out to the same mission and uh we now have a thousand people at our company it's hard to believe until we sit together in staff meeting like we did this morning we see all those great great faces so we need more people and

if you want to join us on that crusade we're currently on the hunt for software engineers with expertise in ruby on rails java c-sharp and front-end technologies or if you're a ux designer seo and content marketing specialist we'd also like to talk with you find out about all the available jobs we have many many more than just those technology jobs and you can find out more by texting the phrase work that matters that's one phrase

no spaces work that matters text work

that matters to seven eight 33789 that's

three three seven eight nine and uh maybe we'll see in the building soon hey i met a sharp lady uh today right after staff meeting uh she had listened to the ken coleman show called my show about six months ago she didn't tell me she was applying to this company but she was asking me advice for how to to get in a certain place and towards the end

i kind of figured it out and i said you wouldn't be applying for ramsey solutions would you and she said yes i said well if you get in and it's hard to get in here yeah it is but i said if you get in come see me someday after staff meeting today she came up and said hi started a month ago i love it so we need some great people work that matters text that phrase to three three seven eight nine

i love it i love it since you're leading this man where we going next oh let's see go to kyle in birmingham cows

in birmingham hey kyle good afternoon how can uh uh how about i say chris hogan can i help you out yeah i've got a

inheritance question yeah um my my

siblings and i received an inheritance from my father's mother and he passed away years

ago um it's only 55 000 divided six ways

so we each get a little less than nine thousand dollars a piece um and we're trying to figure out the best way to use that money to care for my mother in the future

um she has historically not been great

with money okay um and i've been trying

to help her but i still i don't love the idea of just giving her the money so i'm trying to figure out how what the best vehicle would be to keep the money save it for her and help care for her when she's older cool how old is your mom right now she is 62 okay how much debt is she in right now um she is debt free um

and has last i talked to her about 120 000 total and savings okay okay let me ask you this question why do you feel that you cannot trust

your mom with the money yeah so when my father passed away um i

became heavily involved in helping her with the transition

and i got her debt free we dealt with all the finances and i had her

set up so that if she took

if she lived off of the interest alone she would have money for you know the rest of her life

um and she burned through the stockpile

so she burned through all the reserves and all that she was left with was the house and then she sold the house cool and that's kind of what she has left i got you i got you ken what are you thinking i have a question about all the siblings is everybody in agreement that they are going to each give their 9 000 the sum total being 55 to help your mom in retirement no it's a mix a couple of us that have had a pretty decent year are willing to give all of

it some of us who have been unemployed for the last year need to keep some of this everybody's wanting to give some and a couple of us more than others well

uh i think then we find out what the number is and then i think you need to sit down with one of our smartmaster pros i mean that's why we have these men and women fanned out all around the country and i would sit down with a couple do you actually work with one of our smart investor pros now on your own retirement i do i'd sit down well

then that's where i would go i'd start there because you've got to trust a relationship so i'd go to your smartvestor pro and i'd say all right here's the deal um we've got let's just say the number is 25 for round numbers so that's what the total is whatever here's what we've got here's what here's what my history is with mom here's what she's done how can

we how can we put this some money away where she doesn't touch it but i mean my guess is and i'm gonna give you a general answer i'm not dave ramsey but my answer is is that she's not she's not touching her current retirement you say it was about 120 000 she's not trying to do anything squirrely with that right no she's not then i would put

it into that so to me it's just piling on what she already has that's where you're gonna get the best return but again your smart vester pro is is the person to talk to you about the specifics of what she currently has and how to make the most of that money yeah but i since she's proven she's not she's not being she's not being just crazy by trying to take out her retirement

so i'd just pile it on to what she has that's the best use of that money sounds like to me and i would definitely as well kyle have a conversation with your mother just pull it to the side and say hey mom we need to start making strategic moves to set you up for retirement to set you up to win successfully financially in these next few years um

and so we're going to make some wise decision with this pot of money that we're going to give back to you but then also let's sit down with a smart investor pro like ken said and let's figure out okay how do we invest more and then two mom you have to make better financial decisions as well okay you can't just be out here doing this and doing that

we need you to make strategic moves that sets you up to win

in the future because mom if we can set you up in a healthy place this helps out your kids and we're not stressed we're not hurting our families but um we can still help you out so i would definitely uh to have a conversation with your mom first then reach out to a smart vested pro then make some moves from there but such a great question uh there kyle thank you so much for calling and praying for you praying for your mom and praying for the whole family um that this will be an easy process

uh real quick we're gonna go out to phoenix arizona have a conversation with john good afternoon john how can ken and i help hi i'm going to ask about selling my

three rental properties in order to pay off my home mortgage recently we decided to have my wife leave her job to stay home with the kids and our income has decreased by half to 72 000 okay

if i restructure this way i can better

meet savings goals and have more breathing room in the budget which is pretty tight right now okay how much do you own your home

uh about three hundred thousand dollars um part of the reason we're getting this squeeze is uh it puts me above the 25 threshold for monthly home payment

how much would you clear if you sell the three rentals uh thousand 307 approximately

so right at the right at the number yeah

i have i also have a good cash savings as well right now but i probably need to sell at least two of the rental how much do you have in savings uh

a hundred and seventy eight thousand dollars in like uh liquid savings is what i would call it what's your household income seventy two thousand dollars okay i thought you said you went down by 72 okay and this is the only debt you you have is your actual home uh my home and the investment properties right right right right cool well yeah i i

i'm well to be honest with you i don't know that i would sell all three do you what do you do are you how much do you uh what what's the one that you owe the least amount of the rentals are the three the one that i own the least on yeah how much is that worth um well they're all like they're all pretty different in equity two of the houses uh one has

a hundred thousand dollars of equity one has a hundred and forty thousand dollars of equity and one has sixty seven thousand so if we were going to keep one it'd probably be the lowest equity because it'd be uh you know the least uh from getting sellers you know right well with 178 in the bank i mean the way we teach we teach the baby steps and i'm sure you're familiar with them

if you're not three to six months expenses is what we have you put in a emergency fund so what's what's your six month on 72 your take home is what about five uh per month

yeah i think it's more like 42

42. okay here's the deal i would use some of that cash yeah only sell one or two of the homes keep one yeah pay off the main house and then and then attack those rental properties all right right on right on i would do that um or you could sell all three and just you know all three so not a bad idea right there ken you're in a great shape with that savings account absolutely absolutely we're proud of you this is the ramsay show

this is james childs producer of the ramsay show did you know the ramsay show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in

your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money my name is anthony o'neill host of the popular youtubing podcast show the table with anthony o'neil and co-hosting with me today is ken coleman host of the king coleman show and number one national best-selling author of

the proximity principle and together today we're going to be answering your questions around your life your money and your careers if you're trying to figure out how do i make my shovel bigger give us a call we have the career expert in the building who will show you how to land that job get that pay increase and then once

we can help you out over there then uh he's gonna throw a alley hoop over here to me and i'm gonna show you how to use the money uh to pay off your debt build wealth start investing purchase your car you know i want i want to see more young people can get their dream jobs pay off their debt

when they pay off their debt they have a fully funded emergency fund and they're calling here saying hey how do i build my dream home yes how do i buy my dream car yes how do i send my kids off to to their school you know that's those are the conversations that i'm looking forward to having down the road as we help people get out of debt

and we start seeing their kids come up yes with no debt and now they're saying hey i was set up right um i just landed my dream job ken thank you hey anthony how do i do this over here so um i really wanna encourage you to give us a call we have two phone lines open here at the top of the hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh kelly is standing by uh

and i'm i'm excited i really am

excited you excited ken i am you know i love what you just said you know one i i think that one of the other things we'd see happen as a result of that vision you gave us is you know this well the mosaics gen z the millennials gen y they are a very

socially aware generation and i think we'd see people doing more with that money as well um that would be so missional

you know people doing things to help others uh starting non-profits or starting causes you know or uh just that this generation really is

uh well these two generations that i mentioned really are socially aware and i think that you know when when dave says and has said for many many years live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else that give like no one else i think those two generations absolutely uh could do some amazing things with that money so i love that vision

and and i think i'd add that one little thing right there because i think it could be extraordinary absolutely absolutely i agree with you man well hey schuyler is with us in iowa good afternoon skyler how can we help thanks for having

me um i guess i kind of got late listening

to dave ramsey show and i did stuff backwards from i guess the baby steps and we have a lot of money me my fiance and savings account but with her only working part-time going to school being a nurse practitioner gets very anxiety

about paying off some of the debt with that just because she doesn't work as much i guess i just don't know the way to help get her over that to get a couple of our debts paid off so when you say your fiance right now when you say help her get up help her get overweight a little bit more specific she just gets anxiety about spending that money just because she's only working part-time and she she just uh i guess doesn't

she likes having that safety net there even though it's a lot of money just being set there how much is a lot of money uh we got about 75 000 in savings

and then another 13 000 in our wedding fund for may how much money do you owe in debt uh

i was 16 on a truck and we have 8 000 on our student loans this is all we owe so you owe 24 and you got 75 or 78 is

that what you said 78 yeah yeah and it's about 10 000 a semester for a school that we've been trying to pay up front and she's you guys are cash flowing that together right yes i think you just have to sit down with her and walk her through it and go look if we pay my truck off and we pay your loan off okay that's 24 000 if i if i got the numbers right is that correct yep all right so show her what's left

it's the old math problem okay and you

show her what's left after that and you go we still have our 13 000 in our wedding fun we still have uh 78 and 24 what is that 58 and uh so

54 right yeah we both have good retirement

funds too yeah but yeah i'm not even talking retirement because we're not going to touch that i'm saying you still have over 50 000 in savings plus the 13 and you guys are debt free you got yours three to six months already fully funded before you ever walk down the aisle there's nothing for her to have anxiety over help her see how much money you guys are gonna save per month off of those debt payments show her that

number yeah yeah let me ask you this uh when is when are y'all getting married uh may 1st okay so it's right around the corner okay so march april may okay okay cool typically what we teach um on

the money side of things we don't combine income other than savings account for the wedding until we are actually married that's true that is correct so i would definitely say i would wait

to combine your income to pay off

debt you could take your money and pay off your debt she could take her money and pay off her debt um how is that savings broken down

thank you for saying i was i was under the impression it was your your money that's a very good point thank you for clarifying that how much of that 78 is yours versus hers she's got about uh 44 and i got about 34.

marriage um and but i mean what you all are doing right now is is is it's great you have the money uh to take care of that i will go ahead and take care of it um and i definitely want to let me let me ask him real quick skyler yeah what does she say when what what is her anxiety that's just a fancy word you know in

this situation for fear what is she afraid of if you if she spends that eight grand of her 44 taking her down to 36 what is she scared of specifically has she told you

not really that would that start always just worries about it well but so here's the deal so you started off the call saying how can i help her i think you got to have a conversation with and say hey what are you scared about if you cut a check today for 8 000 you are debt free and i'm gonna cut a check on

my side you get to decide so by the way ao is right you need to lead you need to go ahead and pay that truck off yeah and show her show her how much you still have left over and say what are you scared of because look at how much money i saved a month to show her that car payment and just show her how that plays out on a depreciating asset by

the way so just show her some real numbers but then say hey what are you scared of let her tell you once she tells you why you listen to her and i know you're not going to belittle it but don't try to tear it apart just let her voice what she's scared of and then go hey but you don't have to be scared of that here's why

and let her see how big picture hey do you want to be on the same page we've got to be on the same page before we get married we got to get we got to get on the same page on the money stuff yeah and that's when i tried to show her like we looked up jobs and what she's going to be making when she's done i'm like

you know if you're debt-free coming out of it you know that's even going to be there in a year yeah this is a math this is a math problem show her how the math actually adds up and you guys are gonna be in great shape wow what a great way to start your marriage i love it i love it this is the ramsay

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connor is with us in youngstown ohio good afternoon connor how can ken and i help hi um

so i'm 19 years old and newly married

i was never really afforded the

opportunity to go to college based on my circumstances and i just i needed to support myself and be able to pay rent after high school

so well while i was in high school i got a trade school degree and currently i'm working as a machinist um so i just just recently got married

and i got myself in a little bit of a mess during covid but i'm working on i'm on baby step number two i have two credit cards paid off and just uh i married some student loan debt but so

i i have to pay that down and then i have a personal loan that i have to take care of but um other than that everything's going well getting the debt pit down pretty quickly ultimately i was just wondering since i have to work full time and i have another mouth to feed now

i i was just debating on whether or not college would be worth it because i mean i i wasn't able to go out of high school but um and i know

you guys teach the student loan debt isn't a good idea obviously so um what do you want to do you're 19

so you're really young but you've already been in the trades long enough to get a good sense of what that's like what do you want to do well i worked i mean i worked in a machine shop through high school too part-time so i mean this is about my fourth year doing it um i'm making almost 45 000 a year good

i usually go over with overtime good right so i mean we make ends meet

just fine uh cost of living what do you mean what do you want to do you're 19. what do you allow yourself to dream about when you're stuck at the stoplight or you're mowing the grass or you're working on what do you want to do when you're 39 49 what do you want to do successful picture yourself what are you doing i want to own my own shop someday so you're doing the work you're doing the work you're getting paid connor you're getting paid by somebody else to learn how to run a shop so

while you're doing one roll you your head needs to be on a swivel and i'm guessing it already is you sound like a really mature 19 year old but you're you're just paying attention to everything you can pay attention to and then if you're in a good relationship with your leader right now eventually you're taking him or her to lunch whoever's running the shop over there and you're saying hey uh how do

you do the books how do you pay how do you save money on parts you're learning everything you can because one of these days you're going to do it for yourself so do you need to go to college i'm going to flip the question on you do you need to go to college to eventually become an entrepreneur

owner of your own shop business do you

well i mean i suppose i wouldn't i mean i i would like i've definitely thought about getting my mechanical engineering degree because i love mechanical systems and design and just figuring out how things work how would that help you achieve your dream you tell me ultimately i mean for for customer service based as far as designing re-engineering different parts and things that they need made i mean most machine shops hire an engineer okay

but i mean ultimately it comes down to whether i want to shoot shoot for the stars and just bet on me doing that or going to college sort of a safer route to just make a higher income as an employee

wait a second wait a second see now this is this is ao i'm getting all fired up you have been taught conor the culture has taught you that going to college is a safer route let me remind you you're already in the industry all you got to do is keep doing a good job and acquire some skills in the actual shop and you can keep moving up is that true or false and i don't mind if i'm wrong tell me if i'm wrong i'd say it's true absolutely it's true

so so again your income is based on your

output not the degree

am i right or am i wrong in this particular business so if you want to go get a mechanical engineering degree just because you want to have it great but wait until you and your bride pay off that debt and you save up money and my friend here could take over and tell you how to do do the degree debt free he'll give you his book i'm just volunteering

you to give this young man the book but here's the point connor that's up to you but i'm answering your question do you need to go to college i don't think so i think you answered it yeah uh do you want to if you want to great but you better cash flow it ao yeah i mean i agree with you ken i really don't even want to talk about college

i think that i think conor what you need to do is just focus on your sweet spot like what you and ken just talked about uh and maybe go to trade school so you can learn some particular stuff around that uh but i would not go to college man i mean i can i can give you a copy of my book no i'm not gonna give you a copy of my book what

i want you to do is connect with ken i want you to listen to his show um and i really want you to learn more and more and more about his content because i think your path is different and there's nothing wrong with your path being different yeah and i think you just have to accept that uh making forty five thousand dollars right now if i'm not mistaken that's that's what

he said right yeah the average single person is making forty eight thousand so you're only three thousand dollars less than the average person in america right now so you're doing very well yes you and your wife double income pay off the debt walk out the baby steps pay off the debt get the three to six months expenses in the bank start saving 15 of your income towards retirement

you guys are going to be net worth millionaires starting as early as you are and then listen you're being trained you're being paid right now to learn how to run the business you eventually want to run absolutely absolutely nick is with us in atlanta georgia where the nba all-star yeah was i mean that was last night last night yeah nick how's it going man how you guys doing doing good how about yourself how can

we help doing good um so long story short i'm

turning 20 on wednesday getting married in july congrats my fiance is going to be 26 in july and we're going to be projected to get onto baby step 4 by

year's end i would say great um but my question for you is it's more career career based i'm a full-time teacher i've been teaching for five years now and this year i've been

really thinking about long-term in terms of if i want to take the administrational step forward

and get into principal superintendent things of that nature um i'm gonna have my student loans paid off very soon but i do know that if i do take this route i'll probably need more schooling um so i just want to get your thoughts if if you think um you know like what your thoughts are with that well the question is do you want to be in educational leadership yes or no

i i think i think i do because i didn't really think about putting myself in this position when i first started teaching but i've been as years have gone on i've taken more leadership roles as a teacher and now when you say now nick i'm a words guy because usually words matter and i'm just curious when you say i think i want to is that because you're still not 100 sure are

you 80 sure are you 50 sure i want to know a real accurate answer how sure are you that you want to be in administration in education

i'd say it's a little over 50 i mean i i wanted to be a teacher since i was like a fifth grader right it's my passion and i love it um but i

also i'm thinking just long term and um right now i'm making fifty four thousand and i i do not for the number but i would like to get in the three figure range just to support my my family okay so here's the deal all right nick this is a potential trap i get this call all the time on the ken coleman show ken i took a promotion ken

i changed careers to make more money i'm six months in i'm a year and a half in i'm three years in i'm not happy so nick you're 50 sure you have got to practice the proximity principle right now and that says in order to do what nick wants to do or think he wants to do he's got to be around people that are doing it in places where it's happening here's my homework assignment

you need to get on the phone or in person with two to three people that are in administration in education and you do like a college term paper on them over coffee or lunch or over the phone and when they fill in everything that has to be done to get there what it looks like during the day a week a month a year several years your head

and heart are going to get aligned when the head gets the knowledge the heart will then confirm or deny the idea you need to be 100

sure not 50. and don't pursue this just

for money i'm going to tell you right now there are plenty of teachers out there that are net worth millionaires chris hogan's everyday millionaire study proves it absolutely absolutely this is the ramsey

show

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[Music] triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five we have uh this segment and one more segment so we would love to take your phone calls uh ken coleman your career expert and myself anthony o'neil life and money guy is here to help you out we would love to have a conversation with you so give us a call

and we'll help you out as much as we can before we get to the phones you need to find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply so ken today's question comes from tamara in connecticut

she says my daughter wants to go to school in south carolina for forty thousand dollars a year there is a school here in connecticut that has been that she has been accepted to as well and the cost is approximately 20 000

a year okay how do i get through to my

daughter that taking out loans to go to school is not a good idea

i have told her that we can pay for her to go local without her taking loans but she insists on going to this school that is double she didn't put that in there i said that i have shown her the interest calculator

and she doesn't care do you have any tips on how to get through to her yeah i have a tip

tell her i was waiting on that

i just had to say i had to say it in a respectful way tell her your 18 year old daughter is not old enough to make wise decisions especially financial decisions uh right

now you're going to tell your daughter hey listen you're going to go to a school that we can't afford because you can't afford nothing we are not signing we are not taking out

any student loans especially when you can get the degree here for half the price so right now there's really no convincing it's a daughter this is what we

me your your father and yourself

can afford and we are going to pay cash

for this school so this is the school you want to go to now if you want to go to another local in-state school we are more than welcome to have that conversation but what we're not going to do is pay 20 000 more to get the same education to get the same degree just at a different school because right now your daughter's excited about going to her school that her friends may be going to or

the school that may have some good fraternities or sororities or known for good partying or known for this no tell her your dream school is a school we can graduate from debt free and this is school you go into and so for me that's how i'm having a conversation now i'm not going to go that aggressive but i am going to say hey daughter no

that's off the top but here's why i'm saying no and i know you may not understand it today but when you graduate high school and when you walk into high school when you graduate college and you walk across that straight stage and you have a debt-free degree and when you meet your peers and they're saying man i'm i'm in fifty thousand dollars with the debt i'm in a hundred

and twenty five thousand worth of debt i'm drowning and student loan debt i gotta move back home you will then thank me for saying no so that's just my

answer on that am i wrong there ken you have you have a daughter no i think you're spot on she has an assumption problem she's assuming it's her decision it's not she plays a role in the

decision but she doesn't have the final say-so yeah i'd have a little fun with it i wouldn't even make it a big discussion either to be sarcastic and go have you lost your mind um i'm in charge

and these are all the reasons why i'm in charge i have some fun with it and just take the oxygen out of it in my house i mean when my kids think when they start making decisions and tell me they're going to do stuff i go well then we we have a role problem let me remind everybody of your role in this house you know man that's what

i like to do hey man listen my parents were they weren't even like that i said mom i want to do this she would just ignore me like i never even said nothing right yeah what well it's great that you want to i'm glad that you want to hey there's things i want to do as well hey i want to drive a lamborghini every day right i'm unable to do that man listen me too okay

i can't afford it i can want to do something all i want to but if i can't afford it i'm not going to do it yes so there you go pretty simple stuff yeah pretty simple pretty simple ike is in pensacola man hey good afternoon how can ken and i help

hello can you hear me yes sir

hey uh i guess i have a question about

church no yeah the pastor is in

anthony awaits your question good yeah yeah i'm debt free churchill 10 paid 10 our times

each month and have done for years okay

the church out here now do not give us a feedback on where the money is going so am i supposed to be happy we're just paying 10 and leaving it up to them to make decisions on the money or should i know where my money is going am i being a good steward i mean

if you want to go biblical yes you give 10 because that's biblical so you're not really giving it to the church you're giving it to god then the church is going to be responsible to how they're dealing with the funds with god now if you know for sure that the church

is doing something irresponsible they're not being good stewardships of the money then it's not even about giving money to the church it's about leaving the church period okay so that's what i would say but if i am at the church i it's not my responsibility to question how the church is dealing with the funds my my personal beliefs and i want to make sure i'm being careful here uh

because this is my personal conviction i'm not giving money to pastor ken per save he was the pastor of my church i'm being obedient and i'm just i'm just setting myself up to receive blessings from god the church is not going to give me a blessing the church is not going to uh give me a miracle i'm i'm saying okay god is saying give 10 um because 10 back in his hands is much better than in my hands

and so i'm activating faith i'm activating god so he can know he can trust me with more now from there i it's between the church and god how they deal with those funds but if i publicly see and i know for sure that they are not being good stewards with the funds then it's not about me giving tithes i'm finding a completely different church and so yes

if the church is still

in debt um if you do not know where the funds

are going um you know i'm i'm not really too concerned i don't know where my funds are going uh inside my personal church they do have like a yearly update on what they did the previous year and how many mission trips and i don't i don't even go to those meetings because again i trust my church uh and my church is still in debt uh so to answer your question yes wherever you're getting fed at

you should be sowing into the church but if you feel the church doing something wrong leave ken you want to add something today we're not add anything very good such a good question man thank you so much for calling in um on that one ashley's with us in detroit good afternoon ashley how can he help i'm sorry i hit the

wrong oh okay there we go all right that was weird i hit four and it went back okay hey ashley how can we help hey guys um i was wondering so i'm kind of in the pickle um i'm in the process of i want to buy a house but i also want to go back to school and get my degree okay why do you want to get your degree

um right now i'm a cna and i just kind of want to go back to just to get before our rn okay and how much schooling do you

need is it two year program uh

well with my past credits and i would have probably have to redo more classes because it's been like 10 years since i've been in school okay so um i would want to just start

fresh honestly okay so how many years are we talking about about four years okay and are you going to cash flow your way through it i'm hoping to i don't want to do any credit at all good well i'm about you said hoping hoping

it's still a possibility so we're not even having a conversation going back to school ken unless we know for sure absolutely we're not going to borrow any money yes no i don't i've done the student loan thing paid it off right now i'm about two thousand dollars in credit card debt and that's just only because of last year you know through do the covet okay well

i want you to hold on uh because we're about to come up on a break and i want to make sure that ken and i can definitely help you walk you through this process because ken is he's a career expert uh and i think your question is important but then also i want to hear about your dreams about purchasing a home and we need to we need to figure out what's what's

the best move yep going back to school or purchasing a home so stay on the line uh ashley and we'll be right back after this uh commercial break all right okay all right um yeah i like this question this is good there are some steps she needs to take and i like that we're gonna kind of come back and reset for her help her figure out what do

i do first what does that mean how long will it delay the house purchase so good stuff all right so when we come back we'll pick ashley back up he is anthony i'm ken coleman and this is the ramsay show

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today's scripture in quote comes from second corinthians chapter 5 verse 17 and we all with unveiled face

beholding the glory of the lord are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another for this comes from the lord who is the

spirit coco chanel once said don't spend time beating on a wall hoping to transform it into a door before break

ken and i were talking to ashley out of detroit and she has an amazing uh question that i think is very important for us to dive into and i didn't want to rush her off the line ken and i both didn't want to do that because it's a hard decision do i go back to school at 32 or do i go purchase a home so ashley

where what's your exact question for us how can we best help and serve you um right now

okay right now um i was just wondering going back to school what would be a better like option for me i know both are pretty adamant to me right now but what would be better like

i don't want to get into any more debt i've literally gotten out of debts

i haven't used any debts in the last what five years until you know kobe hit but i just want

to know what will be better for me in this situation are you prepared to buy a house right now do you have the the uh at least 20 down payment no i don't have the 20 down payment so i have the 10 so it's like depending on right now my range will be between 80 and 100 000 so i do have that

10 to put down but

i don't know like what am i making the right decision when it comes towards this because i do have kids too but i also kind of want to just kind of further my career and i don't want to like be in one of those dead-end careers where you're just actually just stuck in it how much are you making right now ashley annually a year i make about 40 000. yeah and then if

you go to rn i think you'll be making right at about 80 to 100.

yeah okay um

can you cash flow this go ahead ken well yeah answer that can you cash flow your way we were talking about this before but you feel like you can cash your cash flow your way through nursing school it's that no not really not if i use what i have because my savings is pretty much the same ten percent okay so i was it was yeah so you have

ten thousand dollars pretty much in your savings right pretty much how much is it for you about eight eight okay how much how much would the program cost you um it depends because i kind of wanted to like start fresh and go through community college before i actually get into the program yeah um it's gonna be about 40 grade on

average yeah yeah well look

ashley i mean you get to decide i mean

and and i think he and i are probably on the same page here i i mean look um

you're you are pretty much capped out financially in the current field that you're in uh you could you could work a second job to help cash flow your way through and save but you got kids i mean that's there's a lot of sacrifice ahead for you regardless so whether you choose buy the house first and then eventually go to nursing school their sacrifice if you choose i'm going to rent

and i'm going to go to nursery school and then put off buying a house down the road there's a sacrifice there so there's no getting out of you decide of you sacrificing something and and

then to to save up more money to put down on a home to save up the money to cash flow through nursing school either way you're going to have to really uh get after it and you're going to have to sacrifice say no to some things you're going to have to work really really hard and and in my opinion

based on what i do every day talking to men and women who are trying to figure out what they want to do with their life i think you really really want to be an rn not just because of the money but because of the work itself i think it's really important to you so based on what i'm hearing you say and you can correct this but what i'm hearing

you say is that that really matters to you and so i would put off buying a house there will always be houses and i know that some people look at well i'm 32 i don't own a home yet i just wouldn't allow that narrative to hit to kind of hit you in the head every day like you're some sort of less than because you don't own a home yet

i mean your reality is your reality and to make the future better i think a big part of that is cash flowing your way through nursing school so i would not spend any money on a home right now yeah and i just did the i just did the research for you so i want to make sure my numbers are right so yeah on the low end is going to be about 40 000 up to 100 000 to get that degree

so you will go definitely to the low end yes uh to get that degree but here's the thing rns are starting off on zip recruiter starting off at about 50 000 to about 94 000

a year so i think the question is going to be like hey you got to look up in your particular city okay what are rn's making if they're only making 50 000 a year 54

000 a year and you're already making 45 is it worth it and then am i willing to move to make more money so right now i think you have to really step back and ask yourself ashley okay let me do all the research this is what i want to do uh like what ken teaches what i teach and then figure out okay what's what can i make and and then scale

not scale but do once you do the proper research put them side by side what's the best move for me and my family here's the other thing ashley you said something twice you said i really want to start from scratch well you know i want to do a lot of things but i just don't think you know what i'm saying like i don't think you need to do that

you don't need to do that yeah don't do that like that's some sort of honorable thing you're you're an awesome rock star okay ashley i'm not picking on you what i'm saying is that's a purist and i appreciate that as much as anybody but i'm just telling you don't start from scratch just because you want to if you've already got credits let's start where we left off that's going to save

you time and money ashley time and money man thank you so much absolutely for calling in you got this don't quit don't quit you got this adam is with us in chicago illinois good afternoon adam how can ken and i help hey guys

uh i'm calling in i got kind of myself into a financial situation so i'm just about to finish med school

and before this i worked really hard i got out of undergrad with no debt okay there we go with med school i i couldn't you know blame that and right now i got

uh 420 993 in med school debt

420 you wish 420

000 100 000 yeah i i wish

you graduated with your bachelor's with no no no debt now he's in 420 000 in med

school debt okay how much do you make a year right now adam he's not out yet zero i'm i'm graduating right now

how much do you think you will make a year uh an intern depending on you know where you're working exactly can be anywhere between 52 to 60 k oh my goodness and what's the eventual goal eventual destination the invent

eventual destination is interventional radiology and which is going to pay what range very well uh depending on you know where you work and the type of practice you're in anywhere between 350 to 8.

cool okay so what's your question we only got about a minute and a half okay so my question for you guys is i know that the public service loan forgiveness those guys are not getting their loans you know forgiven it's only like one percent uh i ran the numbers and with what i'm taking home if i'm able to you know tutor

a little bit throughout the week i can augment that enough to where i'll barely be able to make the payments to pay you know this off theoretically in ten years with the with the graduated plan would you guys

suggest that over you know making the

bare minimum uh loan payments that i see you know so many of my colleagues make and then you know it's 20 years post med school and they're still you know paying this thing off adam how old are you man i'm 30. all right cool great here here's the thing adam you're going to be 30 for the rest of in for the next 10 15 years you're gonna work like you're 30 you're going to live like you're 30 for the next 10 years you do not have time for luxury you do not have time for

um fun you're in 420

000 worth of debt right now yes you're gonna work your behind off you're gonna make extra payments if your girlfriend comes up to you and says hey baby can we go out to eat you're gonna tell her no we can have peanut butter and jelly sandwiches at the house you're not getting a nice car you're gonna get an ugly car you're gonna get a car that you could pay for cash i'm sorry

but that's what you got to do i'm sorry ken thank you so much james james kelly thank you all so much america thank you so much don't forget the caliber of our financial future will be determined by the decisions we made today you made the right one by listening to the ramsay show with ken coleman and myself [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 204. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 15, 2021)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iawe_kUYG5M) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:26:25 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice welcome to the ramsey show george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life and your money open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five among george's many

jobs in this uh locale called ramsey solutions he is the host of the newly uh popular big hit the fine print

podcast where he explores the fine print that is screwing you over in various industries and uh george the is it the is it the new one that just dropped i picked it up on my walk this weekend on um uh christmas holiday spending holiday spending is that brand new is that the the newest one okay i'm look at that look at me i'm caught up it's so great

thanks for listening by the way sure i'm trying to trying to boost the listenership here but the uh it that's really that was really intriguing and really good you guys did a great job with that thank you i hadn't seen the outline or the wireframes on it or anything and so i was just having the full user experience as if i was a consumer student instead of

the owner of the place and um it was it's really

insightful i mean with all this disruption with supply chain inflation cray-cray out there i mean you know crack-a-doodle man the whole the whole culture's got lost its dadgum mine and then let's have christmas right we started it going okay let's do one on black friday and what you need to know to not overspend during the holidays and all of a sudden this global supply chain disaster hit

and we're going oh my gosh there's more to this story and on top of that you've got all of the baggage that comes with the holidays when it comes to family and expectations and boundaries and so we had dr john delony come on there to talk about not only how to curb over spending but how to deal with family and how to say no and how to set up healthy boundaries that are respectful to family

and you get a lump of coal and you get a lump of coal and you too that adds to the stress of the holidays yeah so i mean i couldn't i did i hadn't really half paid attention because my need for stuff is fairly low uh but 28 billion dollars worth of goods

sitting in la harbor long beach harbor alone on 73 ships or something yeah you nailed it i mean that's that's real good i know that's pretty close to that your memory there pretty close to that because i was just like that's a lot of money floating out there and they can't get it off yeah that was when we shot it shot or when you when we did

the recording or the recording but might they may have gotten some of them offloaded now but yeah it's still just and then oh might be a little back up with the old truck drivers after that oh my goodness basically everything is bottlenecked and it's making everything expensive it's hard to get which means you've got a plan early you've got a budget better if you need a budget more

and that with all the expectations with family that can turn into a disaster and you have a lot of regret come january we pulled a ton of our stuff out of overseas production ramsey products and things we've got a few things that come but we used to regularly buy those cartons and you know a whole carton full of shipping financial piece university kits back when they we had kits

you know we'd have a whole carton coming on a slow boat from china thing coming over and uh

it was like very inexpensive and it went

it's like 22 000 a carton now

in september it was ten thousand dollars a carton and in june it was three

thousand dollars a card it has uh quadrupled i think no more than that i mean quadrupled it was nuts i couldn't

wow yeah that'll add to the cost of the goods inside the carton hello yeah because uh these businesses are not eating this stuff you you people are it's gonna consume if old barbie is a float on the seas oh barbie's cost just went up considering her value her value just went through the roof that's amazing is american girl dog doll maybe dogs are they made in america

i don't know i don't know but it's it's getting wild out there we're seeing goldman sachs backwards if they weren't but but they might not be so getting into port is three times slower and it's astronomically more expensive yeah so it's causing all sorts of issues and so i mean i uh santa claus has got his work cut out for him the old boy's gonna have to get a lot of that magic there's a shortage of batteries tvs gaming consoles laptops cell phones cordless vacuums

i mean pretty much everything you could want this christmas that was a pretty good joke line too if you can't get a cordless vacuum you just can't get it you can't get one who's getting quoted vacuums in 2021 i'm not getting a vacuum

i wouldn't know but um i was going to have rachel come over and do it but it might be a long wait uh i'd be hard-pressed to make it you're

thinking that's probably not the one not the one of my children to have to do that no she's got her own problems so bottom line is what do they do for christmas and they need to listen to the fine print podcast but yeah get ready for christmas this year is going to be particularly strenuous the big takeaway here is you've got to shop early you've got to be looking for

the deals because there's not many of them out there to find because the retailers aren't that desperate and there's not that much to get rid of and so you're going to have to really do your research and really ratchet down that every dollar budget when it comes to holiday spending and get it done as early as possible and i heard something else in there that i liked even better uh anytime you're buying anything

and you get married to a particular thingy

you are about to get messed over in the negotiation you need lots of options yes and so an a b a c even a d a fallback option uh default option in

case uh a and b are not available and c

is triple what it should be because of the shortages and no other apparent reason then uh you need to be you know listen the way you survive crazy is you don't join crazy right you got to have options well we we joked about it being like that movie jingle all the way with arnold schwarzenegger and sinbad when they're fighting over the final toy and that's what it's gonna be like

this holiday season when you want the certain model and you need that specific item and it's hard to find and it's already stressful going to the mall you know i'm not sure how that movie didn't end up a christmas classic it is to me in my heart in your heart okay you're the right age group okay which we found out this is the most fascinating part in

the whole podcast the research showed that there are over 200 hallmark christmas movies wow as of this season well and none of them made the sinbad level no funniest sinbad line ever has nothing to do with christmas my dad used to put me in timeout he'd take time out of his day to whip my butt

oh that's good great that's what held up great that one stuck with me yeah oh timeout yeah i love that so christmas you need a plan you need alternates you need to shop early and often and you take your time and slow down if you think you're going to stroll in there on the 23rd or the 24th gentlemen to do your classic guy shopping you're gonna find nothing in

there nothing out there may not even be toilet paper on the shelves at that point and uh scarcity marketing it's a real thing so pay attention to the marketing and what they're telling you and what's happening to your brain limited time limited quantity they jack up your brain and it's real now yeah everything's limited so be careful out there we probably have a have a marketing uh mention coming up

that says something about ramsey something being scarce just coming up right after we did that i'm sure that's usually the way that stuff falls but um but we don't tell you something scarce around here unless it truly is i think we've got plenty of everything this year from ramsay stuff books and we prepare wallets and everything except christy wright's uh the calendar the calendar that man that thing that's gonna

we are gonna run out of those and we're not gonna be able to get more because of the stuff we're talking about so you wanna get one of those you best get on it there you go folks there it is check it out the fine print podcast all kinds of wonderful

information there every week in this week featuring how to shop for christmas properly george campbell my host co-host this hour this is the ramsey show

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george campbell ramsey personality my co-host today this is the ramsey show common sense for your dollars and cents and a culture where common sense is so rare that having it is like having a superpower andrew is in atlanta hi

andrew how are you well gentlemen pleasure to speak with you you too what's up um so i have a quote i was just recently informed by the all-knowing government that my student loans are being transferred to navient and given the questionable nature of that company i'm wondering if that changes my debt snowball the student loans are nineteen thousand dollars they're currently fourth in line in my debt snowball and uh i estimate being fully debt free in uh the spring of 2023.

okay what's in front of it

uh two credit cards and a land contract which i also wonder if the land contract carries more risk given something you said recently yeah yeah um so the land

contracts almost paid out it's not much older it'll it'll actually it yeah it actually is probably number two yeah um it's actually hard for me to get my head around not doing so what is the what is number the student loans are number four what is number three number three would be a credit card yeah what's the balance what's the balance 11 000.

is just one we featured in borrowed future but they all suck and you know what it'll probably be transferred again before you pay him off and so that's just the nature of that industry so i wouldn't be worried about them screwing you over i mean it doesn't whoever it's sitting with in the student loan world is they're not as much crooked as they are just incompetent

which is actually worse because crooked you can actually catch incompetence you can't fix and so you just have to manage you have to watch your account and make sure they're posting stuff the way they're supposed to all the time anyway

whoever it is so just watch it like a hawk and keep it right there's what i would do yeah i don't see any need to to move it around in the debt snowball i think you just stay the course and use this income to your advantage and maybe try to increase it if you can to speed this thing up because we're talking you're done with the student loan though and what six months yeah i'm probably done with it and um by the end of 22.

michael's in houston texas hey michael how are you i'm doing just fine thanks so much for uh taking my call guys sure what's up i got two things for you um number one i wanted to at least provide a testimonial for some of the advice that you're giving on here my wife turned me on to your show about four years ago and um in four years we are completely debt-free we've paid our house off 36.

in retirement and then the other question is that if this is going to take me about two to three years i'm a little bit unsure in how to invest it and i know that you can't call the stock market i know that you can't time it but my biggest fear is that i invested in something and then you're two or three years from now um i have less than what

i put into it yeah so uh the 750 000 is in retirement accounts right yes like if you take it out you get a penalty right yes so you can't put it in that if you want to use it to buy a house no no the uh the idea was that i wanted

to take that money and start to invest it somewhere else and then open up like a secondary are you saying you're gonna stop contributing to that retirement account to save up for this house that was kind of my question is that while i'm saving up for the house should i continue to still be putting money in my retirement accounts or do i have your blessing to say you're in a really good place right now um

you should put it towards the house you're a millionaire you don't need our blessing for anything but we would tell you as a matter of course just to continue to put 15 aside and above that save for your upgrade

that shouldn't make or break your upgrade to lose out on that 15 exactly that you're investing so i would yeah on anything above that 15 i would be putting away and if it's two to three years that i don't i wouldn't be putting it in mutual funds that's a little bit short of a time horizon um but when we saved up for our house if it's three to five years we worked with smartvestor pro we invested that and it grew it grew a little bit which really helped us with our down payment situation so

one to three years is a little bit tricky on the market so here's the here's the here's your here's your probability so you can split it up do some of each if you want uh in terms of uh whether you put it in money market or whether you put in mutual funds if you leave a mutual fund a general market mutual fund good growth stock mutual funds across the four types we talk about alone for five years 96 of

the time it will make money if you leave it alone three years 67

percent of the time it'll make money one out of three times it'll lose money okay but it won't lose a lot

i mean it might lose it might lose you know you might put in a hundred thousand dollars it might be worth 95 you know or something so it's not like you're gonna lose all your house money but you probably won't you won't make any money that's appreciable and so that's why i said you might play the market on some of it and some of it you might not play the market but even by playing the market in air quotes i'm going to be in some very conservative mutual funds and money markets or i'm going to be all in money markets if i just don't want to worry about it at all but if i really want to take a little bit of risk you might lose a few thousand dollars if you're only leaving it alone three years yeah and with a high yield savings account i mean you're looking at a half percent so it's not the sexiest thing but it is guaranteed and so you have that um as far versus losing money in the market in a short period of time exactly and the way i look at it is you know a typical mutual fund year in and year out averages 10 to 12 okay a decent decent track record mutual fund all right and so it's got to do really sucky to get all the way down to a half a percent yeah and so i i personally am willing to play that but but i don't want you to lose a little bit of money and then go oh i lost all my house money you didn't lose like you instead of having a hundred thousand you got 95.

so your range of risk is really small really small so either way you go but if you're going to get down under three years i start to get nervous and i just start to park it in money markets if i'm in your situation that's what i would do so good question thank you for joining us this is the ramsay show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage jim and jenna are with

us hey guys how are you hi how are you welcome welcome i love your tie-dyed b-weird t-shirts best t-shirts of the week that's impressive very colorful i needed some color here that's uh we're ready to go man i was born in the 70s when i was born in the 60s but yeah but oh my gosh still oh that's incredible so uh where do you guys live uh

we live in perrysburg ohio just outside of toledo western part of the state welcome to nashville and how much debt have you paid off 731 000 that is sufficiently weird and how long did this take a little over nine years all right and your range of income uh we started at 125 000 it went

up and down in between there even a year of unemployment for me um and we ended at just short of 130 so not much change between start and end cool what do y'all do for a living so um i work at bowling green state university go falcons um jim and i met there no college of education there and

our oldest two also attend there so um

i gotta love that tuition waiver uh there so i work in stem education um teach some and also work with teachers in in our area wow home of my uh hometown of my good friend scott hamilton yes oh yes yeah and a famous runner from the 70s you know what his name was uh dave waddell oh yeah okay i went to ice hockey camp there when i was 12.

boy goes to the north and get my butt kicked by those northern boys playing hockey but that's what happened but very very cool learned a lot learned a lot well welcome guys okay i'm guessing i'm going to surmise nine years 731 000 and be weird t-shirts means you're paid off your house we have paid off our house that is correct yeah yeah you are officially we're done we are done bunch of weirdos yeah i love it congratulations thank you thank you thank you what's the house worth uh 250

000.

crisis took all of our rental properties down to you know nothing we struggled finding tenants we struggled getting people to lease the values of them dropped significantly and we were at the end and that was into 2012 13 where we were two days away from filing bankruptcy wow and about ready to throw in the towel completely and um trying not to lose it very good

just couldn't do it couldn't let my kids down and we were two days away we had the chapter 7 bankruptcy petition all filled out ready to go and they said we're just not going to do this we're going to fight our way out so my full-time job or our full-time job over the next couple years became dealing with all the banks brokers

short sales avoiding foreclosures

and made our way out from that and sold them all took a significant hit and refinanced we did stupid things like you always say not to do we borrowed money from our parents so when we bought the properties or borrowed money from both sets of parents to use towards the rental properties that we were buying your father-in-law who tried to get you to do dave ramsey he loaned

you money nothing down real estate so i might be really good at selling people i'm getting people to believe what i believe so wow um yeah like the wrong person converted the wrong person well it's funny well so he he passed away nine years ago and that was part of it in 2012 when i saw what he left he was a guy that drove the 1996 jeep cherokee his whole life

and i and i started to pick up on that when he passed i realized the legacy that he had left for his wife and

now his daughter and son and that was one of the eye-opening moments for me when i got to see behind the curtains like now i now i understand why you did what you did and that changed my life so he was an everyday millionaire he was an everyday millionaire that you would never know it he was the guy that drove the old car lived well below us means

and you just didn't know it and now we do and so after we refinanced all of that debt back into one big snowball that's been the last six years um that we've thrown everything we had at it and including our house we had a car loan in there um loans to

the parents um and it it it was significant there was a lot of dark moments but um so you guys narrowly avoid bankruptcy father-in-law passes away and you guys go never again never leave a different legacy for our family that's exactly right i looked at our kids and they were probably our biggest cheerleaders without it and without without any hesitation they were our biggest cheerleaders and they didn't know

it because we just couldn't let them down i refused to let them down and we weren't going to quit and we were going to make our way out of it and it uh and for a long time this story i wanted to keep to myself i was embarrassed by it i didn't want anybody else to know and then just in the last year or so i'm thinking maybe there's somebody else out

there that is going through the same things maybe some people have done the same stupid things we did and we can provide hope because there was a lot of dark moments and you're looking at little kids and are all of our kids dave they grew up with the financial peace junior envelopes i mean for 15 years they were little kids running around with the yellow envelopes and

the velcro thing putting their money into it and saving it and and now i'm so proud of what they've done and they understand what we've gone

through now and they've been a big part of this journey so we also had fun on the long road trips in the car um we uh you know when uh you could turn on the hot spot or the wi-fi we wouldn't turn it on until we listened to a couple dave ramsey episodes and made them listen and then tell us what they learned so uh oh yeah angled

it like a carrot yes yes you were a four-letter word many times our youngest could sing your opening theme song since i think he was about 10 years old they weren't really happy when we went on car rides a lot of times because they knew we had to listen to you in fact my future son-in-law is out here with us as well today and the first time

i really got to spend time with him wait a minute you turned into that father-in-law that's exactly right so this is exactly this is full circle it is you're going to love yourself that guy right so four years ago after the shortly after they started dating i went to pick him up from school and it was a three hour trip back to toledo and i made him listen to three hours of your show

because i wanted to make sure that this dude knew what he was getting into and i am proud to say he's wearing one of the t-shirts he's wearing one of the t-shirts he just bought his first car

for cash and my daughter is proudly wearing a debt-free diamond there we go married he is he is he's a keeper we've decided we're going to keep him i'm uh i'm taking high odds on the over and under that big jim will be crying walking that one down the aisle because big jim's a crier like me 100 that's exactly right without question yeah changing the legacy literally in front of our eyes yeah

i didn't say i mean i wake up every day inspired to educate mentor and influence kids so together we can change the world and we have generations of kids graduating from high school having no idea what they're doing completely lost having no idea how to find success thinking that living beyond your means is the norm having no understanding of personal financial management and i'm i'm blessed to lead an organization that believes

we can create a world that kids will graduate from high school with a clear vision of future success cool let me get you guys in to the shot before we do the debt free stream i'm about to run out of time here come on so the name of the kids are brooklyn jimmy trevor and the son-in-law is lance all right guys everybody's here with the shirts this is awesome what a great story

you guys you've been through hell and you made uh you made a lot of good stuff out of all that manure i'm proud of you very well done jim and jenna and the gang from toledo ohio 731 000 paid

off in nine years making 125 to 130.

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

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well done you guys very very very well

done we appreciate you being with us what a great family this is the ramsey show [Music]

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feels like it's too soon to start talking about christmas i know thanksgiving's still a couple weeks away but here's the deal we know and george talked about it on fine print this week that the earlier you get started for christmas with all the disruptions out there this year the less likely you already mess up your christmas budget so a big reason for that uh we're going ahead

and get started because we're going to give away some cash the ramsey cash giveaway every every year we celebrate with our ramsey show listeners with our ramsey christmas cash giveaway it's become a tradition this year we're giving away 500 every week and we've already started and a grand prize of 5 000 bucks so given that you're glad we started christmas early right there you go so no purchase necessary got to be 18 of course go to ramseysolutions.com to enter

and you can go ahead and get into in on the giving too we've got all kinds of life-changing gifts for you and your family our famous 10 sale on our best-selling books that means you can shop over 40 of these bestsellers and envelopes for 10 each or less uh you can

get books like number one bestseller or total money makeover uh christy wright's 2020 gold planner also is a great gift they are selling out fast that's one that is actually uh scarce so don't forget the one time use pres or do forget the one-time use presence and uh give a gift of lifetime of hope give away some total money makeover books and some rachel cruz's books and christy wright's books king coleman's book so on ten dollars each at ramsey solutions

open phones this hour this is the ramsey show the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five florey is in cleveland ohio hi

flori how are you hi i'm good thank you for taking my call um i apologize i'm like super nervous um

no problem we never lost a patient

i love that line uh my question is i guess i'm like all over the place with my uh finances and i just kind of need to know where i should be um make a long story short um

i i'm a hairdresser i worked for a

one of the top like salons in cleveland ohio on the west side i ended up leaving that position the owner during the pandemic actually ended up

died by suicide so and then yeah so kind of going through a lot um

the new owners ended up basically i'm

kind of making different changes a lot of the stuff that i was taught and i was there for almost 10 years i've known him since i was like 14. um big mentor you know and i learned a lot and i'm grateful for that but things changed so i went off on my own i

and then i started booth renting um and i was on a non-compete for a year and then now i'm back in the city that i used to work in running my own studio with full salons i don't know if you're familiar with that too much but i rent like a space and i basically run my own business so my question is

i'm trying to shop around for health care i know i should have that but i am 33 years old i haven't really had the need to have it um my financial advisor my cpa is all

telling me like get yourself health care

and so my question is do i basically not pay extra on my house or do i take

that from like my contributing to my like uh my boss ira because right now i'm

putting 500 a week excuse me a month in

my wrath i have no doubt besides yeah okay george so i'm just trying to like budget and i don't know what my budget is i'm still trying to figure that out so you don't have health care right now at all correct okay yeah that's going to be your a1 i mean you can jump on ramseysolutions.com we have insurance pros in cleveland that can help you navigate this help find

the right option and that's going to become a budget line item and anything on top of that if you you don't have kids no kids single yeah okay so if you've got no debt that fully funded emergency fund you're investing 15 of your income into retirement then you're going to start paying off that house but it's going to be only after you've budgeted for all the things that are a part of your life like health care

so any money left over you can put it on on the house but yes that's going to cut into the money that you would have put on the house hey florey yes today get on the dad get on ramsay solutions get one of the health insurance elps do this today you want to know why it's so important here's why it's so important the number one cause of personal bankruptcy in america today is not credit cards it's not student loans it's not overspending it's a medical event with no stinking health insurance yes

so my other question is you kept driving too fast girl raise your right hand dave i will go get health insurance today dave i will go get health insurance right away today and you're saying um instead of like that money that i was like putting towards instead of like paying up because right now i'm paying more on my mortgage

you can't pay extra on your mortgage until you've met your budget and your budget now includes health insurance because you raise your right-handed stuff yes so how do i budget and like what should be my expenses versus my profit like for a small business

so you're talking we got to split the personal on the business side are you running these out of two different bank accounts so i have an llc um but i'm basically paying myself from my business yes okay because your book your budget for your personal life and your budget for your business are going to be two separate things so we've got to make sure that we've got those separated in different accounts

and when it comes to expenses versus profits dave can speak to what that's going to look like as a business owner but on your personal side you've got to get that piece down first and make sure that you are paying yourself a living wage yeah it's fairly simple you're running a single chair operation your income is you have very little expenses you have the cost of the chair

and you have some supplies and so your income comes in you pay the cost you pay your expenses for operating the business everything else is profit and you're probably bringing all that home and that's fine you do need to set aside a fourth of that for your taxes you need to be withholding on yourself because you're an independent subcontractor and you need to be filing a uh

you need to be following your quarterly estimates once a quarter on that and again your financial advisor cpa can probably hook you up with a good bookkeeper to do that or check tax pro tax elps at ramseysolutionsquad.com while you're there looking at the health insurance pros so flori um what i hear is somebody who's had a lot of

emotional trauma through the pandemic with the non-compete the loss of the job the loss of your friend the owner that mentored you the new people coming in jerking you around um your story had some pain in it and i understand that and i'm with you on that the trick when you go through pain is to come out of it very process and systems driven

john deloney always says facts are your friends and in talking to you you're just kind of circling the airport all the time that's why i hit you so hard to make you land the plane on the health insurance you also need to land the plane on your taxes land the plane on your budget you need to get very sis very systematic and

don't be circling the airport anymore land on some of these things and get very precise it's very easy in the pain because the pain was as much of your story as the details were and i understand that i'm not against that i've been there myself i know how it feels so um you know but make yourself the way this thing the way the the all the uncertainty

and the pain will go away is by putting these detailed processes in place yeah and i want to do one more thing for you florida kelly's going to pick up and i'm going to gift you one year of ramsay plus that membership is going to give you access to every dollar which is going to be our budgeting tool that can help you put this stuff into place that

you can look at it like dave said fax your friends and go oh what are my expenses what is my income and you can go watch financial peace university there's a great lesson on insurance in there that's going to tell you exactly what you need and more importantly what you don't need there's a lot of crappy tools out there crappy insurances so go jump on that watch

the videos get plugged into every dollar and you're going to have a lot of confidence moving forward and kiddo you made me a promise

better follow through today you need to go get health insurance doesn't affect me at all but it's going to affect you you need to go get health insurance right now like you promised this is the ramsey show

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did you know you can listen to the ramsay show on your smart speaker just tell alexa google assistant or siri to play the ramsay show podcast check out all ramsay network shows on your smart speaker today

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host you jump in we'll talk about your life your money george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print host of entre

leadership and co-host of this show today is my co-host so check it out george campbell and i'll be here talking to you about your life and your money it's common sense for your dollars and cents the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five tyler is with us in springfield missouri hey tyler how are you better than i deserve how about you dave just

the same sir what's up well i have looked forward to this phone call for a very long time but at the age of 24 me and my wife are

officially in baby step seven wow

that stinking impressive hero way to go

it it it doesn't seem real i'm not gonna lie what's the house worth uh roughly 275. gee man how did you do

that at 24.

i sacrificed a lot of time away from friends and family to uh work a pretty well paying job oh cool what do you do

i'm a truck driver okay so you've been like 80 hours a week huh oh well oh my god that's not legal that's not legal it wouldn't be that many wow a lot with a partner yeah yeah yes

uh so i was calling since we are

officially in baby step seven uh am i crazy for uh leaving my current job where i make

roughly 110 000 a year to go work in the same field

and take a pretty substantial pay cut but be home every day of the week working 40 hours a week what's the cut uh i would be going to like seventy thousand a year okay so a forty thousand dollar putt cut on 110 yes okay well because you guys are in baby step seven it gives you options and one of the reasons we tell people to live and give like no one else is

so later they can live and give like no one else and so what i love about your situation is you can afford to take the pay cut and it won't severely impact your financial life can you guys live off of your income absolutely yeah does she work outside the home she does what's she make uh about 35 000 a year okay if you have 105 000 household income

you can live on that easy got no house payment no nothing no trouble okay so that step is not a is

not the end of the world okay and yes you probably should or could do that without you if you got babies no babies yet okay not enough time for it i haven't been home enough okay yeah all right well the uh uh

yes i would do that now i got to give you a huge caveat though okay because there's this uh it is it has to be a temporary

trade-off you're only 24 years old i don't want you 34 driving local making

70.

yup so i want to know what the next step is i don't want to know today but i mean rhetorically i want i want to know what you're going to do that's going to make you when you're 34 150.

so what career are you going to move into are you going to move into owning trucks are you going to i don't know but i'm not gonna take you at 24 and that be the end of your career growth yeah and you call that okay because of baby step seven we're just gonna kick back and take it easy no no no no you're

only freaking 24.

okay so let's go do something with our life now and use this step back as okay i can take some classes at night get certifications in x y or z i can do this or that on the weekend and get set up to move to the next level and start running a ken coleman program on your life where you move into a career that is really not only fulfilling

i mean his new book from paycheck to purpose i'll send you a copy of it but purpose and time with family does not always need to equate to less money

it can on the short term but it doesn't have to in the long term

okay yeah so yes but not forever

yes but not for long is the answer to your question yes i would do that so i'll give you an example okay out in 1990

or no

1994. i made a hundred i was coming out of the bankruptcy and i was doing real estate deals again and i made 120 000 a year in 1994. i remember this specifically i

had written the book financial piece and i was selling them out of the trunk of my car for twelve dollars you got to sell a lot of those to get 100 grand okay it's not a lot of money and i was doing some speaking and i was making like 250 bucks a pop doing speaking i mean i was not making and i started doing some coaching and i was making 150 for doing coaching and i was on the radio and it paid nothing i was doing it for fun and to feed the coaching that wasn't paying much and the book sales that weren't paying much but the financial piece materials obviously grew into everything we know today is ramsey solutions right and so i had this call and this pull on my life so is it okay if i move from 120 000 a year in real estate to move to the call that god has on my life and the first year we budgeted out we knew what we were going to make we're going to make 60 000.

but the next year we made 100 and never looked back and i obviously make a good deal more than that now so the point being that that was not a permanent thing um and it was but it was a decision to take a step back so that we could take different steps forward and we had that ability because like you at that point we were debt-free um and so i could say i can step away plus i knew i could step back into real estate if everything got real bad and get my income right back up so you could go back on the road if you get yourself in a pinch but we don't we don't want that to be our plan i just want you to have a long-term career path that we take a step back in order to take 17 forward yeah and if you love driving trucks that's what you want to do that's great but have a plan for growth long term and if you don't love driving trucks this is a great time to sit back and go what do i want to do like dave said follow the ken coleman path read that book and figure out long term he's 24.

but the thing i want to push back on for our audience george and i do this every time ken's on the air i wear it out because it drives me nuts this assumption that in order for your work to have meaning you have to make less this assumption that in order to have a more balanced life and have time with your family that you have to make less

so you either have the horrible toxic job that pays a lot and you work too much and you never see your family or we have this sweet little job that has meaning and family but we make no money how about c none of the above not a not b c the cool

job that all has meaning and i make more money than either one of them that's the one you want i like that option but why do we have to assume that in order to have a better life that somehow we have to take less there's this thing out there floating around that needs to be destroyed that's the myth it's killing me so from paycheck to purpose with a bigger paycheck that's the book this is the ramsey it's a great subtitle

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if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 dollars about two years

after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today

at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

[Music]

well we're coming into the time of year where money stress can really pile up there's the list of christmas presents to buy the extra travel expenses the bills the payments and the extra food

what if money was something you never had to worry about again not at christmas or any other time you know it's actually possible you just need a plan that works and that's what you get when you go through financial peace university you'll get the plan that has helped millions of people save for emergencies get out of debt become wealthy be outrageously generous

get the budgeting app the premium version of every dollar all of this is happens when you're a ramsey plus member

this is what you need to do when you're not always worried about money you get to live the life you really want so this christmas give yourself a gift that will actually help you get there faster start a free trial of ramsay plus

at ramsey solutions dot com slash ramsay plus just jump on ramsey solutions get to ramsey plus get your free trial going and that'll get you into financial peace university that'll get you into every dollar and you can get ready for christmas

our question today comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free give free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get your best possible deal today's question comes from scott in vermont i know your company teaches to never use credit cards

but i'm having a hard time letting go of mine the rewards that i earn are very beneficial to my family because we love to travel my wife and i put all our utilities groceries and other expenses on our card and pay it off every month what's the problem with doing this if we never pay any interest on the card

this is an age-old question dave how many times have you answered this one uh six or eight thousand um the uh uh but the thing is you just did a great episode on uh the fine print about this yes we did one on credit card rewards uh and the numbers are worse than i remembered yeah the true cost of credit card rewards is what that episode was called and we talked to an ex-capital one um

lady named elena and she really unpacked the secrets that they're using to take your money and a lot of people think well i'm not paying any interest so what's the big deal dave yeah i'm not paying any more than i would have if i paid on it with a debit card well obviously that's not true okay you're not paying any interest but here's the here's what we know the step from the studies uh carnegie mellon did a detailed study

and uh using mri and they actually determined that when you use cash it activates the pain centers of the brain when you use plastic nothing happens no brain but um

but the uh but i mean it's just left flatline right and so what it might do is you emotionally experience buying something and have a tendency to spend less when you spend cash visualize everybody listening right now 100 bill in your hand leaving your hand oh god

right uh and and visualize you hand here's an interesting thing too rachel cruz brought up years ago when you hand them the hundred dollar bill they don't give you it back when you hand them your plastic they give it back think about when you were a kid or something and you were trading you know you traded something or when you give some you give up something to get something that's what you do when you pay for something with money but when you give them your card

they give it back you didn't lose anything see how that feels psychologically so it doesn't activate the pain centers of the brain plus cash just does and so here's what all the studies tell us depending on the area and the item you're shopping for you will spend 12 to 18 more when using plastic than you will when using cash when using a debt that's when using a credit card

when using a debit card you'll even spend more i use a debit card but you'll spend more i'll give you another example okay uh george are you old enough to remember walking inside the store to pay for your gasoline oh yeah okay before you paid at the pump okay let me tell you what happened the last time people had to walk inside and pay for gasoline and

it doubled in price there was almost a revolution they were going to burn washington dc down now it goes from 250 to five dollars and

nobody notices because you just pick it you just plug it in the thing pay you for your gas and walk away the only thing you notice is you didn't didn't seem like i got that much gas well that's weird okay and you drive off but if you walk into the store the physical act of walking into the store and pay cash and that registers

that freaking gas is doubled i'm gonna

kill somebody you know you you start to have this experience and so that again shows us that there's a behavior mechanism going on you can take it one step further move away from plastic used to apple pay or amazon prime where there's no friction at all i mean you don't have you're not even touching something physically you're just waving your you know you go to home depot

and you wave your little phone across and you just bought like a house of lumber you know but you just waved your phone you didn't even but you didn't emotionally experience it no i just bought tools i don't even know what they do but i just waved my little phone across i do it with my apple watch oh yeah it's even worse here's what i do dave you're gonna love

this starbucks drive-through line you got the watch and you just hand it over like a tiny king and they kiss your wrist as they scan it

[Laughter]

that's why people go to feel like royalty well i have noticed that with the dunkin donuts app that i buy more donuts too but that's how it works it's the same thing because you don't you don't have to pay for it it's already paid for it's built in chick-fil-a you can eat like half the dead gum restaurant and not even know you bought it so the point being guys everybody falls for this stuff i teach it and i catch myself falling for it that's why disney let's your room key if you're staying on property work to buy things all through disney smart that way they can charge you 82 dollars for a ring coat they paid 12 and a half cents for from china because disney causes it to rain every afternoon on cue but um you know it's built right into the system nine dollar ice cream cone right and but your room key did it and you don't even think anything about it it's the happiest place on earth and then you go to check out and you're like oh my god i got to refinance the house you know it's like so this is what's going on so that that's the problem with his little theory yeah is he thinks he's the exception to all that because he got some airline miles here's the other thing 78 of the airline miles are never redeemed that that's 8 out of 10.

to redeem them jupiter has to be aligned with mars to get on the plane i mean you have to get the age of aquarius to get everything to work there's all kinds of restrictions on those points exactly and that they do points on purpose if it was actual money you'd know but with points you go i got 48 000 points yeah that's amazing i'm wealthy and your point in

the year that was a fabulous metaphor you used in the fine print episode oh it's like going to chuck e cheese you know you you spend 83 dollars getting all these tickets to trade it for a 12 and a half cent plastic ring you know but i got me a lot of tickets what's your cash back and it's all free by the way it's all free because

it came with a pizza you know i tell people to give yourself cash back save up for your own vacation that's what you can do when you're debt-free and you make a plan for your money i don't have to hope at the end of the year that we have enough points to take our family on a trip you know we stayed 10 000 plus millionaires and um 90 percent of them 89 of them were

first

generation rich started with nothing and out of all 10 000 millioners we interviewed not a single one said made

all my money with my airline miles

they didn't say that wow they didn't say you know i gained the system i scammed all capital one because me i'm smarter than old capital one i mean i'm smarter than i'm i'm they they spent more on that one commercial that ran one time that i made in a year but i'm smarter than them the arrogance of this is unbelievable so the fact that you think that you're whipping their butt scott is kind of humorous i'm sorry son you're not whipping their butt they're whipping yours

this is how they built buildings taller than your house you would love to just trade the furniture in their lobby for your home you know but no you've paid for every bit of it and i know you think you didn't fall for it but you spent more and the number of times during your life you fall off the wagon don't pay it on time and accidentally slip into interest

because a high percentage of credit card users eventually pay some interest yeah um and everyone thinks they're the exception a little bit like a fishing story you know like golfing story that one time when i hit the ball just right you know that one time i caught that big fish and you spent seven million dollars trying to get to the point you got that one fish you know

and it's just like it's the same crap yeah so dude follow what millionaires do not what broke people with theories do and that's what people playing credit card points are they're broke people with theories if that makes some of you mad out there good that's my spiritual gift this is the ramsay show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage brad and julie are with

us hey guys how are you hey dave welcome where do you guys live uh we're just outside of atlanta georgia and cartersville yeah welcome to nashville thank you so much and all the way up here to do a debt-free screen how much have you paid off six hundred and seventy six thousand nine hundred ninety seven dollars and thirty nine cents

how long did this take five years good for you and your range of income during that time uh started off at 75 and ended

at about 175 wow what do you guys do for a living well well so uh currently i just ended my uh 28 year career with one of the country's longest family owned and operated wineries in california so i just finished my consulting with them and i'm going to reinvent myself and julie i am starting my own small

business i create unique handbags all right that's

fun good for you guys thank you yes so you were living in atlanta consulting napa uh not napa the livermore valley oh okay yeah but yeah so i was a director of operations so i was passing torch to the

the person who took over my position yeah plus helping out on some uh it type of thing so very cool good for you so 677 over five years you pay off your house yes two times the california house and then uh the cartersville house wow yes wow do you still own the california house no no we did not sold it okay we sold it

and uh we we came out very well i can suspect that yeah very

well done you guys okay so what happened to put you on this journey five years ago well um in december of 2015

a week before christmas my dad passed away and then the very next day i found out i was losing my job oh my gosh so it was a dark time yes it was it was a really dark time for me and you know i was freaking out um you know i realized you know sitting down and doing the bills we're a thousand bucks short every month thousand bucks

you know too many bills you know i mean yeah car payments 401k loan a heloc this i mean a bed i mean just if we had a if we had the checklist of stupid from you dave we ticked every box and added a few okay yeah because uh you know under miscellaneous yeah miscellaneous which is refi roll the car loan into the refund oh yes 30 years start over 30 years yes um

kick the can kick the can but you know and and at that point in life didn't even realize there's a can didn't care right yeah you're young enough um i'll work my way through this you can make the payments yeah no biggie we're still eating right until you can't until you can't and then you're a thousand bucks short then what'd you do well then it was you know

we realized like oh my goodness you know it's just us you know we didn't get anything from my dad's estate you know this is us no one to go to for help i mean i'm a huge talk radio guy so um i couldn't tell you how many times i was driving home from work hearing you on the radio and then listening to two minutes and going to

the next channel because it's like uh what's this get rich quick guy you know there's no way until i was in that position and um

that's why we got to thank you dave i mean you you literally saved our life and i'm hoping that we can touch somebody with a similar story as ours because i eventually stopped and i listened and

when i got home that night i said we got to check this guy out he came home and he was like julie i heard a guy on the radio and i'm like okay and he's like yeah i really think we should get out of debt okay mr amazon

i'm the free spirit i'm the free spirit she's the nerd i'm prepared and so yeah so that was in february so 2016 and then we signed up for fpu yep

and i got to give a shout out to um kim and garrett um our coordinators they're awesome we still talk and um yeah we just went gazelle from there um it was actually funny because i was like i have no job i'm you know i'm sitting in these fpu classes i'm like steve i'm not going to be able to pay this off you know but you know

once we started going through the classes and working the snowball whatever we could you know throw at it it's like oh wow i think this is possible and and i must say you know anybody out there that's thinking about fpu or yeah what is it and if you have an opportunity to do it and we've gifted it before do it you're gonna feel weird the first two weeks undoubtedly you're going to feel like julie said what am

i doing here what am i doing but you meet a lot and i i encourage you to go to the actual class you can do it online or you know through dvds but go to the class meet other people realize you're not the only ones with these problems yeah and actually i hate to say it but i felt better we felt better coming out of the class by

the third week because we realized we had a lot of debt but we were nowhere near some of the other folks in the room but uh the other thing is and this goes very very true for single folks you probably feel the worst because you feel like you have nobody out there but you know folks like us you can all relate you all have death and that's what's happening right now in

this country we got a huge problem what's going on with the you know with the healthcare situation right now and all that now is the most critical time for folks to shut the cards off get down get your feet dirty yeah and hammer it out because it can be done it's not going to be fun it's not like oh this is awesome

you know i'm not you know who doesn't like to go get a five dollar coffee in here like royalty you know yeah just my watch so brad and julie i'm just i'm looking at the numbers and i'm just like in awe how did you guys pay off 677 in five years making what you make sell some stuff what happened yeah well yeah in a second yes okay so so our biggest one was our california house that was like 188 000.

and so we paid that off um

in september of 2020 and we're like cool and then we're like let's move and so then we decided we were originally looking at tennessee we settled on georgia and so we were like debt-free for three months and then we bought the georgia house and moved across the country in january um of 2021 and sold the california house and then paid off the georgia house okay and had a nice chunk of change left over

and yeah getting back but prior in california before we you know actually paid that house off oh yeah it was everything it was comic books musical instruments sold my motorcycle and what was cool was the dude that i sold my motorcycle to i gave him a screaming deal um he he came

out the night before looked at the bike came back the next morning with cash and uh he came into our house and i think you have some of the photos there we had a mortgage chain going down our hallway wow so this guy's filling out we're filling out the paperwork and i'm like you know and i see his face i go you're wondering about the the links on

the wall he's all yeah what's what's up with that so we told him dave ramsey goes oh i know i know about dave ramsey i go yeah you're helping us pay our debt off right now that's awesome and i go you know for me i i love selling my motorcycle to a guy who appreciates it he actually brought his high school friend from nor from southern california up to northern california

and they were gonna go on a bike trip and it was like you know what everything happens for a reason it all works out yep so now you're 100 debt free and oh you can buy a bike anytime you want exactly yeah so what's your first big thing you're going to do now that you're out of debt you know quit your job apparently yeah we already did that

but yeah yeah we did that you know but i mean i've never been happier i mean our

i think that's the thing dave it's like what what's going to be your big thing at um i know you're looking at things differently right yeah uh well dude we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story to move on and be baby steps millionaires you're right on your way to do that and we just got ken coleman's new book just in

the mail a couple days ago so that's actually perfect perfect timing for the job thing excellent all right well let's count it down brad and julie currently of atlanta georgia 677 000 paid off in five years making

75-175 count it down let's hear a debt-free screen three two one

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that dude's about to run through a wall hopefully not this glass this is triple payne he's not getting through it but man what an inspiring couple wow they're on fire way to go heroes proud of you guys very very well done that's how you live life man get after it get it get it this is the ramsey show [Music]

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welcome to the ramsey show george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today kaziah is with us in minneapolis hi kaziah how are you

i'm good how are you better than i deserve what's up um so i'm getting married in february

and um i am living in an apartment right now with a couple of friends but i'm looking for an apartment to move into before i get married so then i won't be as hectic during the wedding and there's just not a lot of apartments available in my area and i don't have a credit score which is totally fine but um i also me and my fiance both just

got new jobs recently so we also don't have any like proof of income to show the apartments so we don't exactly know how to go about that when did you get the jobs um like three

weeks ago and they're looking for like multiple months and i had jobs before of course but they're looking for someone that i'm like currently employed with i think you've talked to apartments

we did an interesting thing we did an experimenter here a while back we called all the major apartment complexes in the nashville area like 30 of them two of them required a credit score

oh yeah i i i'm totally i called them and they're totally fine with me not having a credit score i agree with that um but they just need a proof of income which i have an income i know so just get a letter from your employer i'm gainfully employed i just started a new job i'm getting married i mean how many pay stubs do they need yeah

she said like they want multiple years or something for a freaking apartment that's silly no you i mean you're not a freelancer right this is a salaried position um i have a like a lot of my income is from babysitting and then from an internship and then from a preschool so i have multiple streams of income but my main one might so you don't have a pay stub except from

the preschool yeah except for the preschool yeah so that that's your problem yeah yeah i think you need to look around and find a landlord find an apartment who's willing to look at all the sources of income and say hey this is clearly something that you can afford and recently on the fine print we did this day and we called all around the country we called normal single-family homes with landlords

we called apartment complexes and all of them just said hey you might need a little more deposit so you're just gonna need to explain your situation like a human and they should be willing to work with you if you find the right place yeah occasionally you'll run into somebody who's just being a corporate geek and is following the barney fife letter of the law or something but

but most of the time you can say okay look here i can show you the budget i can show you exactly what's going on to show you i've got these six jobs babysitting and they're i'm a legitimate nanny this is what i do it's just independent subcontract and i've got this this stuff pay stub and your fiance if uh if he's

signing on it as well if he has a traditional pay stub that'll be enough as well but um yeah you're going to run into uh some people that aren't going to understand without a cr without a credit score and you're going to run into some people that don't understand without uh a traditional job but um but you just have to search a little bit more that's why

i was challenging the number of times you've done this and the other thing is this quit emailing people and texting them go sit down and look at them in the face and that'll change the that'll change your outcome as well go sit down like you seem like a very reasonable person i'm sure you present well sitting in front of someone and say here's the story here's the situation i'm getting married here's

the guy i'm getting married to and would you all consider it in this situation no no no yes you know that's what you're going to get you're going to get a few no's and you're going to get a yes and you you can find someone to do this but it is going to take more than just everybody does your deal because everybody doesn't do any deal yeah

and if you go there and you get a tour and you sit down face to face i think it is a different situation than a cold email definitely but you guys just jumped on the phone now you were doing a credit score only you weren't trying to we asked them about the whole situation they said well you need to we need to have proof of income and

we need to make sure you're not a criminal that was it and other than that they said you might need a higher deposit which you'll get back if you don't trash the place and that was it and with with her income being multiple streams and some of them being self-employed like babysitting and so forth she may have to put down a higher deposit yeah in that situation

because the proof of income is what she's running into but still um you know i i've got a bunch of rental property and we would rent to you but you're gonna have to make the case it's not gonna be just automatic like you know well i'll make some money babysitting let's not no no you got to show me what's going on i got to know you can pay

the freaking rent and then our i you're not talking to me anyway but our property management team that's what they would do bob's with us in atlanta hey bob welcome

to the ramsey show hey dave hey george how you doing great man what's up so i need a new car pretty badly i've been driving a 500 car for the last five

years and it's getting to the point where everything's starting to go on and it's got 280 some thousand miles on it you do need i've been shopping around almost every day and i'm having trouble finding a used car that seems like a good deal a lot of these cars are seem like double what they should be so i went out over the weekend and looked at a new car

and i know you say that you have to be a millionaire to buy a new car but i just don't see the benefit right now in saving 10 grand to get a used car that's got you know 80 90 000 miles on it no warranty so i don't know i don't know if right now the situation warrants bending your rules i just want to get your opinion on that well where are

you at financially do you have any debt zero so i'm and babies have seven and i've probably got a net worth of like 600 and uh why are you driving a 500 car

well it was it was a hand-me-down for my mom i know but leave it in the side yard and plant something in it oh my god 500

you got 600 000 dude go buy a car have you saved up for this car already yeah i could i'm not there yet i probably like a month away from having cash board i looked at like a 40 dollar jeep what's your sixty thousand what's your six hundred thousand in uh half of it is my house a quarter of it's in a roth ira and another quarter of it's between brokerage

and savings so you have the money in there to go write a check and buy a car go buy a 10 15 000 car and this crap that all 10 000 cars are worn out or 15 000 cars are worn out dude you've been driving a 500 car this is exponentially a better vehicle than what you've been driving okay you don't have to buy new there's no

i mean but you're saying he's saying well it's not a deal right now because of the car there's nothing that's a deal right now new cars aren't a deal a lot of new cars are going for over sticker for the first time in my lifetime and i'm 61 years old we've always been able to buy cars on new cars under sticker and some of them are sticker plus a lot of them are sticker plus right now

because there's a shortage on them and that's what's driving the used car market bonkers as well is there's a shortage so i would just go get me some kind of car my god get out of a 500 car

and then you're going to move out of move again out of the car it's not that big a thing it's not that big a deal so i was looking at a uh an escalade the other day and the brand new escalades are bonkers people have gone it's an upgrade they've got this like 36 inch screen in them they're nuts and uh the guy at the dealership's a friend of mine

he goes yeah i'll give it to you for sticker and i'm like i'm buying nothing for sticker and he goes dude if you go up the street to the other cadillac dealer their 20 000 oversticker because you can't get these wow and i'm like unbelievable so i got neither that's what that's the move right that was a different move but yeah it worked i mean i'm not mad at him it's just not

the time for me to buy a car obviously now suit but dude you've got to fight but a lot of people are in that boat they're going with 500 cars a new car is going to be way better but if you get a 5 000 car it's 10x what you're driving i mean my god it's just you know anything is an upgrade yeah a bicycle might be an upgrade at

this point so move up a little get something reasonable pay cash here's the thing don't talk yourself into stupid because of the markets going stupid you know just because everybody else has gone nuts doesn't mean you have to and you can justify well because of supply chain i was forced no you weren't you weren't forced to do nothing you're forced to do anything you may overpay for that used car

but not nearly as much as you will that new car and it's going to go down in value faster and uh those new jeeps are sweet though

40 000.

good hour good hour george well done james and kelly in the booth i am dave ramsey your host this is the ramsey show and we'll be back with you before you know

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five matt's

with us in indianapolis hey matt welcome to the ramsey show thank you guys god bless you for everything you do we really appreciate it well thank you what's up got a question i had a 24-year career at a previous player and i had a company sponsored i guess you'd say pension plan

and when i left there i was given three amounts what the life annuity might be worth

at 55 62 and 65.

and i was wondering if there's any way to try to convert that what it might be as a lump sum payment is there any kind of calculator or estimate um because that was not given to me at all okay so you got the possibility of a monthly payment for life yes you got the possibility of a lump

sum at 55

did they give you a lump sum today no i'll although i have the i have the numbers for what they will they will they well probably not i would have to call the the company that actually handles the money which is uh like one america and whether they would talk to me or not i don't know well i guess my question is is that an option to take a lump sum today

not today i'm 53 so we're just trying to do some planning okay so 55 55 is the soonest yes sir okay all right all right here's what you're going to want to do you're going to take it at 55.

but i'll back in and help you with the answer to your question as well what you're looking for is a discounted cash flow analysis or a net present value of the money okay and so uh when you

back that out and you run the calculations with a financial calculator you're going to find this annuity paying in the five to seven percent range

okay that's what you're going to find okay and so were you to take the lump sum at 55 and roll it into an ira with no taxes involved because this is pre-tax i assume right

it's a pension yeah so it's dependent yeah so you'll get taxed on it if you pulled it out we're not gonna pull it out we're gonna roll it to an ira that way there's zero taxes on it all right now when you do that if you rolled it into a good growth series of good growth stock mutual funds you'd make 10 to 12 and you're going to find that produces much more income than the annuity would produce now the annuity for life is probably calculated out with you dying uh 78

years old maybe 80 depending on which actuarial tables they're using and that's how they run the numbers out uh and so but here's the here's the hook to the whole thing that the deal breaker when you die with the pension regardless of which option you take your estate will get precisely zero

yes when you die with having rolled this over to an ira 100 of money will be in your estate

yeah that's that's the right way i definitely want to go yeah so that not only are you beating 12 or 10 over 7

but you're also beating zero over at death zero over so you're better off alive better off dead to take it but it's okay to run the calculation out and a smart vester pro can help you do that and sit down it's not something it's a little too cumbersome to do on the radio but i could do it i could take my financial calculator out of the drawer over here and do it for you but but it's a it's a series of numbers and you have you need to sit down with somebody take about five minutes to do it and you can figure out then what the actual interest rate is that they're paying based on the different numbers that they're giving you there's a formula to put the stream in and you can make an assumption of 80 or assumption of 78 and there's a formula for putting the lump sum in there's a formula you said there's another number at 65.

um but um but the pension

is one of the reasons that almost all mainstream companies have done away with pensions they're almost all gone everybody's pretty much 401k now don't you still do find pensions and unions in huge companies and certainly in government you find them everywhere in those situations but i mean most traditional

corporations in america today don't have a pension anymore because it's just not a good deal and it's cumbersome it's crud to manage it from the employer's standpoint it's a disaster it's really hard but um the uh but but so the big thing

is just when you die you get nothing and versus when you die you get something your your airs get stuck that alone is good reason to take it and invest it as soon as possible you know you talk you know it's a hundred thousand bucks fifty thousand bucks two hundred thousand bucks whatever it is it just evaporates you know and so that that pretty much destroys the math even

if the numbers were reversed if you only made seven moving it and you would have got 12 leaving it you still got to think about zero at death and it starts to offset the numbers so you know you just still got to do the critical thinking on it but it's okay to do the math and it sounds like he wants to so sit down with the smartvista pro

they can pull out a financial calculator and just a few minutes back into those numbers i could do it but i'm not gonna do it on there i used to do that on the air and it drives me nuts because i get two adds punch one number wrong i'm trying to talk and then i hit it in and it just doesn't work so all right so generally folks

if you have a pension lump sum option take it and roll it to an ira in good growth stock mutual funds with your smartvestor pro because when you die it doesn't evaporate that way that's your general answer now there may be some weird exception somewhere so it's always good to think about it always good to learn about it uh but in general that's some

fairly simple reasoning that'll get you to that answer ryan is with us in johnson city tennessee hey ryan what's up ryan george it's great to talk to you guys you too sir um i've got a uh i don't know a serious life question a quick backstory dave i dropped out of school when i was 17 years old and i've worked my hand in off the last eight years to get to where i am today um but you're 25 my father-in-law yes sir okay um i've been a heavy-duty diesel mechanic ever since i actually run

a shop now um and uh for a major company um and my father-in-law has approached me to take over his construction business now i'm not i also own a home investment company where we buy fix and resell houses i'm currently working on two houses all this is done with cash no bald money um

and i just i don't know i've worked really hard to get to this point i'm nervous i don't i don't know what kind of decision you know what kind of you know i understand i guess you could say that's a very very good question i'm bumping up on a commercial break here so we're gonna go make a little money so we can stay on there and uh we'll come back here

and be sure we answer your question a little more thoroughly i don't wanna do it in 10 seconds so hang on ryan be back with you this is the ramsey show

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life is full of firsts

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we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more verses

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with ryan in johnson city tennessee started out as 17 years old as a diesel mechanic now he runs the shop doing really well his father-in-law comes by the way he's doing some uh fixes and flips on some houses father-in-law comes along and says he owns a construction company and uh ryan we want you to come over here

and run it and that's about how far we got in the discussion is that a fair summary of what you told me so far sir yes sir mate that's accurate okay cool so what is the uh what's what's your what are you going to do

that's i don't know that's kind of kind of what you know wanting some advice from you guys today uh you know start off you know he what it is is he's looking to in the next five to six years he's looking to to pass it on and be you know he's ready to retire he's he's worked he's worked this business for 30 plus years um the last five or ten years he's just he's got older in his age and he's not been as engaged as he used to be but i mean he does painting and trim work and you know really high-end houses it's not you know regular mom-and-pop type houses so it's it's specif it's specific work and it's highly you know it's in high demand for the type of work that he does um and he just is he physically is he physically still doing the work or he has people working for him but does it um he goes to the job site yeah he he he has multiple people where he's got a paint crew and a carpenter crew but they're doing specific type of like trailers paint work yeah they're doing craftsman they're doing high-end stuff it's not slap it on there but he's not swinging a hammer or a paintbrush anymore he still goes to job sites but you know he works the farm he'll you know he may go job site and help guys if they need help but he he's not required to be there like you know like he used to be you know years ago building the business and this and that he don't he's got he actually let the business get a little smaller than it used to be he used to have about 60 or 70 employees and now he's he's around he's in the 20s but like i said last five or ten years he hadn't really wanted to work okay so what's the profit on the business um i don't know it's okay we haven't sat down and talked those numbers but basically he can he can replace my income as and you know as far as what i'm making here today i'm putting in long term you're doing this to get your income up yes yes okay so i don't want to know what that is i mean replace my income what do you make now um i make between just depends on how hard i you know want to work between 85 and 90.

uh you know depending now i'm still an hourly foreman so i run you know i still run a shot but you know if i want to work extra every time i can get you know i can get into the high 90s just depends on how how hard how much i want to work that's that's just from my current job that don't count my you know the company that i've got where we buy and sell houses uh i think i made like between

foreman and that last year i made like

135-ish or something

what are the what are the terms of you taking over the business

basically uh he wants me to get in there and learn this hand trade i would be at par i would be an owner from day one basically

um so you know he's always just he would go work the job sites and he would get to pay for pay for you know the what he would earn that week that's all he'd pay himself and the rest of the money that all the other carpenters would work and that he would make on top of what him be on the job site he would just put in

the business account and then he would pay himself you know quarterly or once a year just a bonus or something and i mean he's he's got a very high net worth uh well over three million dollars so he's done so is he gonna get he's gonna give you this business at the end of the story at the end of the story end of the day he wants me to run

he wants me he's at this business he won't know you running it for him is different than him giving it to you which is it it's it's he it's you know he's gonna give it to me at the end of the day but he just wants me to learn the trade i understand running i said at the end of the story so you're 25 when you're 30

this will be yours

yes but yes okay now when you're 50 what

do you want to be doing with your life diesel mechanic or running high-end trade

uh i'm gonna work for myself dave um

uh you know that's not the answer and you work for yourself doing anything yeah that's true you could be a diesel mechanic for yourself and not run a shopper yourself uh you could be a high-end trade for yourself what do you want to be doing every morning when you get up monday morning you're going to work have a smile on your face like i did this morning yes sir i've been doing this 30 years and i still like it

at the end of the day dave i could be doing either one of these jobs and be happy at the end of the day um bull crap i'm limited i'm i'm i love them both now listen you you

you are good with your hands and you are such a freaking hard worker that you are you are content with anything that is hard work that you can make a living and i want you to rise up above that and get into your head not just your hands and go what's going to make me smile when this is big

and you don't have to answer me but you got to answer you before you make this decision i think you're going to go to work for him and the hand that take this over but i want you to be really sure that you're not just doing it just because it's there because you'll be miserable don't be miserable and look back and go i live my father-in-law's dream yes sir ryan's dream that's what we're

after here and it's okay to do that i mean my kids are involved in this business they're taking it over they're not going to be miserable we've gone through a very detailed process to make sure it's god's call on their life for them to be here or don't be here because nothing's worse than family business when somebody don't want to be there yes sir i i tell

you what dave i i won't do anything it makes me miserable i'm i'm yeah i want to come home and you know be with my family and enjoy the time i'm with my family so i want and so they really enjoy what you do you aren't doing those real estate deals just for money you enjoy that project based get stuff done take something and transform it and put

it back out in the marketplace looking better than it did and make some money on it you enjoy that don't you

you're a absolutely who fixes things so i think you're going to end up doing this but i want you to get down inside your heart talk with your wife and then the other thing is with your father-in-law don't assume squat this needs to all be written down yes sir that's that's what that's one thing he said he said we can get with his his order yeah like on this date if i am competent and i have learned the trade you will turn it over to me

yes sir that needs to be in writing okay so hang on i'm gonna have kelly pick up ken coleman's book from paycheck to purpose will be helpful to you but more importantly kelly give him this career assessment that we've got now and it is ryan it's

just magical it'll take you about 15 minutes to take it and you will have insights into yourself you can go over it with your answers with your spouse you and your wife look it over you could even go over it with your father-in-law it sounds like he's a great guy and just talk it through and go what does this the answers to this assessment lead me to

this deal yeah that's a very interesting situation where he can do anything and he's a hard-working guy but what does he love to do because that's what i'm looking at is you could take over the business and go all right this is fun but when you have options which he does right now i don't want him to feel obligated to step into family business and then step into a nightmare down

the road exactly and

it's um both of these jobs are activating the same stuff inside of him that makes him you know he does stuff with his hands he's a fixer he's gotta fix his stuff so that and that's all perfect for both of these that's one of the reasons he's saying that but i want him to push past that and uh ken's this this new book that is it is really incredible yeah uh to get really clear on what

it is you're going to do that's step stage one of these seven stages to get to move from paycheck to that get clear assessment that you're talking about that purpose statement that it gives you is so it gives you such clarity and you go up want to run it through this filter nope the trade's not going to do it yep i need to be a diesel mechanic

i need to be in real estate yep and i um yeah

and you do move through the process i talked about this with ken's group the other night when we did that live stream for his book you do move from the process of just having a job to make a living and feed your kids eat keep the lights on and then you move to career and then the best of the best is when you get to move from career to calling

when you move into your calling that's where the joy is that's where their soul deep work in your work yeah and you and i are both experiencing that personally yeah so good stuff this is

the ramsay show [Music]

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today on the debt free stage in

the lobby of ramsey solutions james and

emily are with us hey guys how are you hello hey we're good welcome welcome where do you guys live uh we're in kennesaw georgia just north of atlanta awesome welcome to nashville good to have you second atlanta debt free screamer today very good how much debt have you guys paid off uh just over 50 000.

because we had a baby during that time and i work part-time at a treatment center to help um substance abuse clients okay and that was your career before it was yeah i was full-time um i i just kind of took a step back to take care of our baby absolutely cool and what about you james what do you do i run a lawn care business in the kennesaw area awesome very cool what kind of debt was your 50 000 my student loans it was my student loans my car

was a good bit of it and then a credit card too yeah no mowing equipment no

he runs a debt-free business because of you i love it that's awesome there's pictures of that too by the way yeah i see them they're showing up here on youtube very clean it mows better when it's definitely that's that's some kind of pickup you got there the humble beginnings that's the beginnings of the whole process check it out okay he's got a real truck now he's pulled

it with a honda accord before it's good i love it well done dude i like it that's cool and so uh debt-free dude marries emily nguyen how long have y'all been married just over a year it was august 2020 we got married okay so before you even got married you started on this idea of getting out of debt and then completed it after marriage and then had a baby yep

he uh been busy he uh

was the initiator of the whole situation

i can imagine yeah how did that go down tell us that story so i had proposed to

her uh early and i guess it was 2019

and it was kind of a time where i i didn't really have a plan or goals with money i didn't have like i was just you know flying through the wind with everything and you know i came across your stuff from our friends and to have like a straightforward direct like follow these instructions things was was super easy for me to get behind and i really liked that a lot

so you know we discussed it together that this is kind of what we wanted to do for our life and how we wanted to live our life and to grow and to prosper and then uh so we set the goal and then you know we found out we were pregnant with lily not long after we got married and so uh that kind of made things real and made things sort of like yeah

it kind of gave the timeline like i was really i personally was sort of pushy with it i was like i really want to try to get this done before she comes um if we can so that we can come home and not have to worry about that um so but we did we as soon as she was

born in home safe and healthy as well as me um we paid it all off you got the money

saved and you chunked it in that's perfect that's exactly what you're supposed to do um during that time though we were able to cash flow our wedding um pay for an acl surgery for

one of our dogs and to pay cash for her birth oh wow yeah and he's building this lawn care business with cash the whole time yeah yeah he was doing that um and i worked three jobs up until um i gave birth wow

man you guys have been after it for 17 months so what was the heart of sacrifice along the way that you guys had to make uh i don't know sacrifice i was really i really like eating out um but i would say the hardest part was probably when we came to the grips we you know we we did financial peace as kind of our pre-marital thing um we we went through the course online at the time because it was covered um

but we when it when i when i had to personally accept that our bank accounts were going to be joined that was very difficult because i couldn't do what i wanted to do with my money anymore it was like you know i had a built-in accountability partner and it was kind of that was the most difficult part to me i think wow so along the journey you guys had to combine finances

and you were going i don't know how much i like this but now you see the benefits of it when you get on the same page absolutely yeah oh yeah how's it feel now to be free i mean that financial piece is the perfect way to describe it you know it's like it's kind of i feel normal like this is kind of it's hard to describe like

i felt weighed down before and stressed out a lot and you know i'm sort of a naturally high anxiety person as it is and so to not have to worry about that

is just huge i mean it's huge it really is just like that sigh of relief like it's like this part's taken care of you know like we're okay and we have a goal and a plan now that we have a direction that we're going in financially and like i really you know want to do that for our daughter and for our family and our kids kids so

you guys are heroes you're so fun you changed everything for her i mean she's she's got a great future because of you two because of the way you've taken control of your life congratulations i'm so proud of you thank you thank you yeah it's it was tough um i'm a spender i

would say um and it was difficult but i think having him was super important because at times i wanted to be weak he was strong and at times he wanted to be weak like i was strong and i was like this is why we're doing it like we need to remember that and i took out a ton of student loans not knowing what it was going to do and now my daughter is never going to do that amen amen well done yeah that's that's the family tree that's changed right there it's not the 50 000.

um i'm 27. i'll be 35 in december okay

very cool good for you guys yeah the future is bright baby future's bright very very very well done and what's your baby's name um her name's lillian lillian okay and she's visiting off to the side i understand she is yeah she might freak out she's a little camera shy at her age okay that's cool no troubles no troubles oh good all good well done you guys who were your biggest cheerleaders outside

the two of you i would say our friends were kind of cheering us on along the way a lot of them uh they didn't necessarily friends and family were cheering a song along the way they didn't necessarily buy into what we were doing uh because it's you know not a normal thing in the eyes of society but they they cheered us on yeah yeah like everyone wanted you're weird

but i love you yeah yeah yeah you guys are doing good yeah that's good i like it well you never know some of them may come along now that you're having this sense of peace that they don't have yeah yeah you know so good stuff so what would you guys say to the couple out there who's about to combine the finances they're getting married they've got a pile of debt

and they're a little bit anxious about all this stuff um i would say i mean you said it really well george when you said that like it kind of it gets us on the same page because otherwise even if we both have the same goal but aren't combined in what we're doing it's just still off a little it's like not you're not really there you're not walking hand in hand on

the same path you're kind of walking two separate paths in a similar direction and it's like just so much stronger it's like getting in the car and driving down the highway rather than wandering you know it's like so much better for me it was trust like i took that extra leap to trusting him because i told him straight up i was like i kind of want a separate savings account just in case like what

if um and his exact words where you're setting us up for failure and for divorce and um yeah i'm fighting words that was pretty cool that was before being married um so we still got married but he was he was right like

i don't need an escape route because we're in this together like we're in this together and beautiful beautifully that's strong i don't need an escape route because we're in it together that's that right there's tweetable i'll take it back back when people that were real were on twitter but yeah oh my gosh way to go guys so proud of you got a copy of the legacy journey for

you that is the next chapter in your story for sure that's where you're going next and on the baby steps millionaires before you know it and i can't wait to hear from you when that part of your story occurs as well really well done copy the total money makeover for you to give away for one of those doubter friends and maybe you'll bring them along on the journey all right it's james

and emily and lillian from marietta georgia 50 000 paid off in

17 months making 60 to 74. count it down

let's hear a debt-free scream count one two three we're different

that is how you do it ladies and gentlemen this is the ramsay show

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so

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our scripture today james 1 12 blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test that person will receive the crown of life that the lord has promised to those who love him joe vitale said a goal should scare you a little and excite you a lot that's the truth so let me ask you a question when you think of a millionaire what kind of job do

you picture them having some kind of high-powered executive position ceo vp well here's the thing only 15 of a mil of millionaires actually have jobs like that the reality is the top five careers

for millionaires in america are engineer accountant teacher manager and attorney and that's just one of the surprising things our team found when we conducted the largest study of millionaires ever done they talked to 10 000 millionaires about who they are and how they achieved that goal our study also made it clear that to become a millionaire you've got to invest wisely and a big part of that is getting good investing advice

the vast majority of millionaires use an investment advisor to teach them and then they make their own decisions our team recommends trustworthy vetted investing pros from all over the country we call them smart fester pros to get in touch with the smart investor pro in your area go to ramsey solutions dot com slash smart vester and start building wealth today that's ramsey solutions dot

com slash smart vester george campbell is my co-host today alex is with us in sacramento hi alex welcome to the ramsey show hi thanks for answering sure how can we help um

i have a question about cancer insurance and so i know you don't recommend cancer insurance but i was wondering if that still applies in my situation so i have a genetic mutation where my chances of getting breast cancer increased to about 70 percent and

i scheduled the appointment to meet with my insurance company and i'm about to

cancel it but i want to make sure that i'm doing the right thing

okay so what is your can what kind of cancer insurance do you have

um it's cancer insurance offered through my workplace um basically if i get like

some kind of service that's related to cancer

like a mammogram then i'll get like a little check like a good job for doing that and then if i do get cancer then

i'll get a percentage of what i would have gotten um if i were working

okay so it covers your income if you're off from work due to cancer

yeah but i have to have a cancer diagnosis yeah i know i understand that and uh but mammograms are free with almost every health insurance plan out there now right yeah yeah okay so so really this is basically disability insurance in the event of cancer only do you have long-term disability insurance yes i just signed up so now i do good do

you have an emergency fund

um only over a thousand i'm still on baby step two okay and how much does your cancer insurance cost

um about 30 bucks a month okay and what does it pay if you get cancer

70 of your income right yeah for how many months i'm not sure okay be good to know be good to know how long before it starts too after a cancer diagnosis does it start six months after or six days after that's important right okay so here's the thing if you have three to six months of expenses i would drop it even in your situation it's a gimmick is what

it is they don't sell heart attack insurance they just sell cancer insurance and as many people die of heart attack as they do cancer but they just cancer so scary and it's such a thing and if you've ever had a loved one and most of us have that have had cancer then it just you know just devastates you emotionally and so it's you're so susceptible to that

so i would keep it for now but i would not keep it long-term because it is really not a good product but for right now you know 30 bucks a month is covering you because you only got a thousand dollars but once you have three to six months of expenses set aside and long-term disability insurance in place you've got no need for it

yeah you talk about this in financial peace university in that insurance lesson there's so many different types out there and writers you can add and a lot of them are just gimmicks and they're covered through your normal insurance they're covered through long-term disability so you really gotta look at the fine print no pun intended to figure out what you actually need and alex i do want you to do just exactly that george is right

because you don't know what you're getting for your 30 bucks and here's the rule in insurance if it doesn't cost much there's a reason the fact that it's only 30 bucks 360 a

year there's a reason because it doesn't cover much so it either has a elimination period meaning it starts late or it's a short payout it doesn't pay out for very long and they know that on average covering a young woman of your age that that's where you are so i'd leave it in place for today but i want to learn what it actually covers and then i do want to get your emergency fund in place

the fully funded one and then drop it at that point just because you in particular are worried about this because of this genetic situation for most people i just drop it period just because it really doesn't cover much when you get down into it it just doesn't there's not much benefit for the cost that's what it comes down to so good question thank you for joining us eli's in clarksville hey eli welcome to

the ramsay show you how can we help so i'm a sergeant in the army right now

and i'm planning to get out june in uh

june 18th of this coming year and i have about 60 days of leave before

i do get out and like the army will still pay me for like that that time but i'm not sure exactly

what i want to do when i get out because like i there's all kinds of different options and i was just hoping that you could i don't know like uh help me like figure out like how long of like a window i really have to like figure out what i need to do eli how old

are you i'm 22 and i turned 23 in february

awesome well thank you so much for your service and sacrifice first of all

thank you so when it comes to what you want to do you've this this is all you've known is being in the military right yes sir so what you got to do is figure out what do i want to do for the rest of my life as a 22 23 year old and we've been talking about you know ken's book from paycheck to purpose and i want to gift

you that book and i want to also gift you that get clear assessment that's going to help walk through what are you really wired to do because there's a lot of things you could do like you're saying i've got a lot of options is there anything that comes to mind when you think hey man if i could get out and do anything here's what i would love to do with my life with my work

so i mean i'm a really big fan of like

helping other people out and like uh doing kind of like a or like doing like a supervisor type position like so you want to lead people i thought i thought a lot about opening my own business though but yeah i'm kind of i don't know i need to learn a whole lot more about that before i would be able to move anywhere in that direction agreed agreed i agree with that you got time i don't think that's your first step i think your first step is find something to move into and begin to find your way toward something that gives you joy where you can serve folks and you can get some sense of soul so george is exactly right we'll send you the get clear assessment take that it's our gift to you to say thanks for your service and we'll send you a copy of ken's book from paycheck to purpose and read every bit of that and look at every bit of that dig into it and then dig into ken coleman's website because you've what you are is you're on a journey a process here of self-discovery that's very healthy and good people do it at 22 they do it at 32 and they do it sometimes it's 62.

really working hard on where you want to end up good hour george well done times thank you well done james and kelly in the booth we appreciate you this is the ramsey show we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 205. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 17, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today

open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five ken's show the ken coleman show deals with careers you getting the job you love his brand new book that came out last week as went on sale last week we've been pre-selling it but it hit the actual shelves and shipped into your mailbox and so forth last week from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love on the

heels of that book actually uh launching on the street date last week we are launching pre-sale yesterday on uh the first book i've done in eight years it's called baby steps millionaires how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too it's on pre-sale now you can get it at ramseysolutions.com you can get ken's book ramsey solutions.com the pre-sale on mine like all of our others has a whole bunch of goodies in

it including audio books and e-books and 100 worth of stuff to go with it so check out books they are available a lot of things you can't get this year for christmas these books you'll be able to get well baby steps comes out in january but um but you can go ahead and do the pre-sale and put the uh i don't know wrap up something under the tree yeah

you put a picture of it or something in a stocking maybe take a picture by the way speaking of pictures put it in ken's book i like seeing the oh yeah thank you very much thank you dave i appreciate that the gift that keeps on giving uh so i like the new picture by the way i mean not only is it the first book in eight years

but we've got a uh updated pick looking pretty cool there standing in the meadow i mean i like the whole scene there it looks like the sun rising did you take that at six in the morning yeah we did we went out to my farm and did a photo shoot as as the sun was coming up yeah it's fun and uh they did a really good job with

it um and you know photoshop's amazing i've said that yeah i've said that i i one of my main objectives with putting my face on the book was if people if i ever get the privilege to meet people they're gonna go wow whoa they really really glamor shot at you

know our team does a great job so it's it's good it's exciting stuff fun times yeah fun times so check it all out at ramseysolutions.com meantime here the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five manissa is with us in austin texas hi menissa how are you hi dave i'm doing good how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

so i was calling because you don't know this but you your book helped me to get out of credit card debt good for you thank you i started with my by myself trying to to take care of myself and then i showed my my parents but they were skeptics and my mom finally got on board and then my dad got on board so we we no longer have credit card debt um however now we're in the dilemma where the house that we purchased

was a wreck so we had to sell it to an investor and we're in limbo we don't have anywhere to go the the housing market is so bad we

keep getting outbid for houses and we tried buying a trailer house and there's issue with land so i'm i'm thinking i needed to go there regularly too to find out how do i invest so that i can

build my wealth i i know i i you're one

of one of the sections in your book says to get an emergency fund and then do 401 of course i had already had my 401 and but i for some reason i can't get the thousand dollars i can't even get a hundred dollars and i don't know what that is so i was hoping maybe you can leave me in the right direction okay uh who's we your parents and you are doing all this together yes i try to do it on my own like after i read the book i mean i mean you're like you're like the house you own you own with your parents yes we did but we we had to sell it because it was so it's sold so you don't currently own a house with your parents no sir we were trying to buy good don't don't don't own a house with your parents how old are you i'm 52.

yeah i completely agree with you okay good then don't do it they agree with you yeah so how much of the money did you get money from the sale of the other property because we had to sell to a home investor we didn't really get that much but we have fifteen thousand dollars you have how much um fifteen thousand dollars okay and so you have 7 500 for them and 7 500 for you right uh well they can have all of it i i mean you're going to give them all of it okay then what do you make a year um about 41 000.

there's a them and a you yes there's no we yes sir okay so you make 41 000 a year

and how did you pay off credit card debt

well um so you got on a budget and you found money in the budget and you put it on the credit cards right well uh what i did was that we took all of the bills and the one that was the lowest we just split the the balance three ways and we we paid that and then we paid we did that for each one of the bills until

we got them all paid off okay all right so you found a money in your personal income to apply to the debt correct yes yes sir so that's how you do your thousand dollars only now it's gonna be you and you need to go find an inexpensive place to rent give them the fifteen thousand set up your life and begin to work the baby steps with a written budget you're not doing a budget

and you need to start doing a budget immediately so get on every dollar and download the the world's best budgeting app and get your get your budget going to where you are doing this but monisa you have to separate you can love mom and dad but you're 52 years old time to move out

of your mother's basement time to quit sharing bills with your mom and dad it is way past time unless you have some kind of a a mental disorder that doesn't enable you to live on your own but you need to do that and you need to do it now and i don't think you do based on talking to you yeah i i would just add one thing

when he said i want you to ask yourself you said they need me but i wonder how much you need them and you're not even aware of how much they're a safety net for you for you not to truly fly and to do what you're supposed to be doing i think you've got to really confront that i think at 52 it's time as dave said for you to strike out

and do your own thing and at 41 000

a year you can get that a thousand dollar emergency fund pretty quickly yeah and move through this and before you know it be truly in a great place financially get the least expensive thing don't buy a trailer they go down in value get the least expensive thing you can get to rent get yourself started get and take all the extra jobs you can take and get on a written budget

and begin to build the thousand dollars and then work your way on up through all of the baby steps and you'll be just fine you can do this this is the ramsey show

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this is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author with his new book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love is answering your career and job questions i'm answering your money questions we're answering your life questions together you jump in the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five

ahmed as ahmed is with us ahmed in green bay wisconsin hi how are you hi dave uh i'm doing good how are you better than i deserve what's up so currently i'm trying to transition from just working as a gig worker i'm trying to get into the cyber security field and i was wondering if i should get a degree or just work on it on my

own and get certification that way certification uh there is no evidence anywhere and i would welcome your research to prove me wrong there's no research that would bear out that a degree is going to help you get into cyber security faster and make more money in fact there's such a demand in this industry and it is white hot it is probably the most uh not just

fastest growing but the most opportunity long term with cyber security and i i endorse a program called bethel tech and they can train you in nine months for if you cash flow less than thirteen thousand dollars that's just one example do your homework look at other people as well but you don't need a degree to get into cyber security if you get certified and while you're getting certified

you are making connections in the field talking to folks that are working in cyber security getting ideas from them at companies that are hiring directions to go within cyber security those two things getting certified and getting connected is all you need to do to get in a four-year information systems degree is an excellent degree field the technical items you learn while doing that are obsolete by the time

you finish the degree yeah they're of no value i've got we got a thousand team members here i've got an in-depth security teams internet cyber security team obviously we've got a lot of web presence and a lot of risk

and so we spend a lot of time and money on cyber security and a four-year degree

in information systems is not a requirement to join a team our size we do look for the certifications in this and we do want to see uh that you've got some kind of hands-on experience actually fighting to keep the hackers out which is the full-time freaking job these days but um yeah ken's exactly

right this is not a four-year degree world the technology field in general is not a four-year degree world if you want to get it that's fine but what you're after there is if what you're after is the ability to get hired it's not necessary as a matter of fact it's not even preferable because what you're learning is processes and concepts not the technical hands-on application because the stuff

you learn today a year and a half from now be obsolete you've got to have your hands on this stuff to know what's going on in that world you blink and it all changes again uh you know how your computer is uh obsolete ken you got it out of the box isn't that the truth that's how about how it works this freaking thing's a door stop six months later that's right

the number of times i replace technology around here is unbelievable the money we spend just to stay not on cutting edge but just to stay up to speed cyber security included but even hardware issues as well bobby's with us in columbia south carolina hey bobby welcome to the ramsay show hey dave uh and it's george right ah this is ken today but i'll answer it with me george was with me yesterday

and dave i just want to say thank you both um george is nicer than ken yeah yeah i can't i can't argue that he's the nicest person on the planet he is yeah he's nicer than all of us that's good stuff good personality qualities right there right yeah okay sorry about all that how can we help i'm basically you know recommended to you from a previous boss and a longtime friend of mine uh you know very humble man uh man of god brandon blake thank you very much i hope you hear this um i'm kind of in a pickle right now dave i'm 24 years old i'm a young father i got a three-year-old i'll be three in december absolute pride and joy in my life and my biggest form of motivation um and my wife and me we're still together um i'm currently living with some relatives and i've been here for about seven months uh my wife was working full-time and just switched to staying at home to watching her son while i work full time i just got a really nice job the best one i've had since i've been working in the professional field 401k offered paid time off bonus structure things of that nature i'm in a very weird position though with how to take you know i'm very young with my professional career i want to set up my foundation with investing properly as we stand right now my debt i only have about twenty thousand dollars of debt seventeen thousand dollars in student loans about two thousand dollars in medical bills and how much do you make um thirty five thousand dollars a year um if my bonus comes out the way that it should this next year will be at forty working 40 hours 40 hours a week yes sir your baby's how old uh he'll be three in december december 6.

what was your wife doing before she quit

she was working as a cake decorator for lowe's foods um and has since lost her position uh mainly due to it was during covid so it got pretty hectic

um and right now she's just staying at home and interestingly enough she also has an international business degree four-year university from rollins but she doesn't have any direct experience working in the field um not even a job like a starting job that would even be relatable to that yeah

what's the pickle that you're in you've given us a lot of details what's the pickle my pickle is i have two options right now um you know eventually inevitably i want to move out um my mom and dad are generous enough to allow me a little allow me to live rent free um so i think i'm having is living expenses and a couple other payments um but i need to figure out you know if i mean obviously saving money is what needs to happen um but where to put that money is the question no there's not a question you're you're broke and you're living with your parents you need to pile up some money in a savings account and get out of there yeah you don't need to start don't worry about investing and don't start your 401k you're broken in debt and you guys have got to do something in this household to increase your incomes so since you're only working 40 hours you need an extra job and your wife needs to start doing some freaking cake decorating while she's at home with a three-year-old yeah no you're right you're not wrong dave um and i guess my next question is you know to make my the smartest decision possible um you know my credit score is pretty good at 700.

thought process was getting either a mortgage on a house no you're broke you need to go get a one bedroom or a two-bedroom apartment as cheap as you can get and you need to pile up cash as much as you can and you need to be working 80 hours a week and she needs to start working 30 hours a week when the kids down so she can get some other income coming in

you guys need to get your income up 50 to 70 000 immediately and start paying these debts off and get out from under your parents roof yesterday

yes sir my question is in regards to the rent with renting i mean as you know rental properties the money you put in goes into a hole you don't get it back honey you're broke you're a renter you don't buy a house when you're broke you are broke and in debt you make thirty five thousand dollars a year and have a three-year-old you're 24 years old you don't go buy a house right now

this house will be a curse to you you're trying to mix long-term issues in with your short-term emotions and you need to get the short-term stuff taken care of you need a big pile of money for an emergency and to move and to get out and you guys need to get your incomes up and then you begin to attack the debt and when the debt is gone

you build an emergency fund a fully funded big emergency fund of three to six months of expenses then we'll start talking about saving for a house you're not buying a house for three two to three years from today if you're wise it's just hard dave because you know with rent it's not hard an additional it's not hard you're 24

you'll be 27 when you own your first house it's not hard at all yeah somebody has told you that renting is throwing money away and you can't get past that thought and it's simply not throwing money away for two years when stacy and i moved here to join dave this was the move for me we took two years and rented

because we wanted to make sure we were going to the right place we wanted to make sure that we were going to lock in and and dive in and we had to save money to be able to get the kind of house that we felt that we wanted to get we weren't throwing money away that's a false narrative and you're not hearing the wisdom and the truth here that dave just gave

you the baby steps work every time but only if you get this mindset out of your head that renting is wasting money renting is buying patience while you're too broke to buy oh that's good

you're buying you're buying time and honey you're you're so broke you live with your parents that's how broke you are you don't need to go from that to owning a home you you need to get out get the debts paid off build up an emergency fund build a foundation for your young family

slow your butt down you're okay you got plenty of time this is the ramsey shop

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ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage richie and carol

are with us hey guys how are you doing good how about you better than i deserve welcome where do you guys live knoxville tennessee knoxville all right good people i was born just south of there in maryville marvel you have to say that correctly yes all right so how much debt have you guys paid off we paid off seventy nine thousand five hundred and fifteen dollars and fifty cents all right how long did

this take it took us 23 months good for you and your range of income in that two years um we started off at 58

000 and then we're on track this year to be at about 108 000. wow there we go what do you guys do for a living i'm an elementary school music teacher and i'm in sales okay so worth the extra 50 grand in income i mean you doubled your freaking income we did um so i started off in a smaller job with not so much pay and then um right after the

coveted pandemic when school started opening up i was hired into my teaching position oh so you got like a full big job pretty much yeah you're not you're working like part time kind of uh yeah pretty much yes and sales is good obviously it's god's ups and downs yeah okay all right so eighty thousand dollars in debt what was it what kind of debt it was a little bit of everything

we um it was credit cards car truck uh motorcycles loans crews we paid off a cruise so you guys were like normal we were so normal we bought everything on debt yes we did unfortunately look at you awesome

okay so what happened two years ago how y'all been married uh six and a half years okay so uh after four years of marriage or three years of marriage someone says this ramsay stuff we gotta try tell me how this happened what happened so um it happened a little bit before um i had found out about you um

through some friends and so i started listening to your podcast um looking through all your tools and everything and i told him i said hey let's try this he's like no i'm not interested no i don't want to do this and then about two years ago um he had an emergency appendectomy oh and so i was sitting in the emergency room waiting and i was like there's no way

because with my income if something worse were to happen we couldn't be able to pay our bills we and i was i was in freakout mode um and

so when we got home from the appendectomy i looked at him and i said we have to do now that you lived if you don't do this i'm gonna kill you yeah yeah pretty much

and so um that was kind of our i had it moment um and so since then we

really really buckled down um it took him a little bit to get on board but i mean first couple times i'd you know she was just like let's try this dave ramsey thing and um i was just like no i just i was stubborn just like everybody else is well i'm a salesman i always tried to outsell my stupidity and right i just tried to out earn it right yeah and so after uh after the the surgery i

was just like okay let's give it a shot and we started off we had a little bit of money put back and we paid off one of our credit cards and as soon as i paid off that credit card i've got a massive adrenaline rush and i was just like okay what else can we pay off and it just kind of went from there he was fine yes yes yes that's

when he finally was on board um and then we finally were able to start really getting some debt paid off so i was catching the youtube uh feed through my peripheral vision while i was looking at y'all i saw the motorcycle pop up did you keep it or did you sell it no i actually sold it to pay off uh the hospital the appendectomy oh she told me

she said it's not a good trade no no that's an appendix for a motorcycle

well we um that was part of our debt we paid off the motorcycle and then we turned around and sold it to pay off the medical debt what did it sell for it looks like a great bike it uh i sold it for 2500. oh wow and that that covered

everything and i told her when i sold it naturally i said so we pay this off and

after we're debt-free yeah i want to buy another bike and she said okay absolutely yeah a better one fund for that so pay cash for it yeah that's that's what you live like no one else later you can live like no one else exactly ride like no one else later you can ride like no one else yes that's good way to go man cool very cool thank

you so you guys just when you once that adrenaline hit you leaned in and 23 months later boom boom we did there was some struggles of course what was the biggest struggle uh probably um having to say no a lot and

being like no we can't go out no we can't do this or do that no we don't need that even though your friends look at you like you lost your mind they did they were like what just go out and have fun everyone's going to be in debt everyone's going to have debt just go out and have fun and we're like no we don't want to do that

we don't want to be in debt anymore it's wearing us down it's worn us down our entire marriage and we just don't want to do it anymore so i i love when when couples share the struggle i want to know in your situation what did you two do for each other or individually to keep pressing on through the struggle what kept you moving we um we had to be each other's rock yes

there were times where he wanted to quit where i was like no we're doing so well we have to do this we have to keep going there were times i wanted to quit and he said no no we can't you know we just we really had to push each other to keep going um i mean

and and we would pull up the podcast we would listen um dave we watched your story a lot on youtube about where you came from and where you're at now we said brought me in tears every single time to hear the story so it was just one of those things where we had to remind ourselves what we're doing it for um so later on when we have kids of our own that

they don't have to live like we did i love that i want to ask you take me to one of those moments well either one of you i don't care but what did you say i know that you were each other's rock but what was that thing maybe that you said besides watching dave's story and seeing that desire future certainly that's motivating but what'd you say to each other hey stick with us what'd

you say we would be out somewhere it didn't matter what story went to if we wanted to buy something that we knew we could take that 20 40 50 whatever towards debt

and naturally my immediate response is because i want her to you know she wants to buy something i want her to have sure naturally and at the end of the day i would be like you know if you want it by and then we'd sit there and stare at each other and be like what would dave say we would we would be like we would we would get down

and kind of a well i'm tired i don't want to do this anymore and we would be like what would dave say like what would dave do at this point and i think that kind of kept us going a lot and also i mean it's like this past weekend i had a funeral i had to go to

my uncle passed away in hernando florida so we drove there and back and the 10-hour drive back i can promise you we had 10 hours of dave ramsey in the car oh my gosh we did i don't even want to be in the car and it also took a lot of prayer too a lot of prayer good luck trust you know god telling us so you did

it all off the podcast or the total money makeover book or financial piece university we did financial peace university oh yeah we did it um in our home we didn't do the class um i think during the pandemic well yeah online yeah and so we didn't during the pandemic most mostly when we watched it sure um but that really helped us to kind of figure out our direction

and where we need to go so proud of y'all thank you y'all are amazing what a great couple thank you you just really you got the right spirit on you you're going to be able to do anything you want to do you're on your way to being baby steps millionaires before you know it now that you hit this stride so very very well done we got a copy of

the legacy journey for you to celebrate that next chapter and a copy total money makeover for you to give away to somebody help get them started because you've been talking about this you can't shut up about it i actually gave um i gave the total money makeover book to a co-worker of mine she was struggling and when i gave it to her she did like what anybody else would do even i've done

it put the book aside yeah i asked her i said have you read the book and she said no i haven't read it yet i said okay now i'd come back next day hey have you picked up the book yet she says no and so finally i met her at work one day and she said hey i wanted to tell you something i said what's that she said that book that

you and carol gave me i said yes she said me and my husband were having a um a struggle a fuss over money we don't have any money right now and i said okay and she said i prayed to god and asked him to help me and she said god told me i

gave you a book [Laughter] all right guys count it down eighty thousand dollars paid off in 23 months make it 58 to 108.

let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're

i debt-free it

i already gave you a book wow that'll preach this is the ramsay show [Music]

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well last week was launch day on ken coleman's new book from paycheck to purpose they were shipped to your mailbox if you'd ordered one if you haven't gotten one yet you can get it now we'll ship it to you immediately the clear path to doing work you love and then yesterday we released pre-sale on the first book i have done in eight years it is called baby steps millionaires how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too it's all about step-by-step how to

exactly become a millionaire and i prove to you without without beyond a shadow of a doubt that you c that you you know i'm talking to you that you can do this that's pretty cool it's not out of reach it's doable so if you want to pre-order this book actually comes out january the 11th but it went on sale on pre-sale yesterday when you pre-purchase a ramsey book

we typically bribe you to buy it early by giving you a whole bunch of goodies and this is no exception baby steps millionaire audio book and ebook is included in the twenty dollars the legacy journey audio book and ebook is included in the twenty dollars the baby steps millionaires live stream event in january is included in the twenty dollars a ramsey smart tax tax

filing is included for free in the

twenty dollars and a thirty day free trial for ramsey plus is included in the twenty dollars it's over a hundred almost two hundred dollars worth of stuff included when you buy a twenty dollar book now that's pretty cool so be sure and check all of that out danielle is with us in philadelphia hi danielle welcome to the ramsay show hi there hi what's up

so a little over a year ago i married my longtime

boyfriend and we're not young we're late 40s early 50s and

we still have two houses now a year later because his house is an hour and a half away from my job i spend about 240 dollars a month in

gasoline going back and forth i don't do it every day how far is your house from his job um maybe two hours so you guys work you guys work two hours apart yes that's wild his his his job is actually an hour and a half from his house as well but he's willing to make that sacrifice i i'm not i think i think it's cray cray

i think you need to sell both these houses and buy a house close to your jobs well i agree with that however i have been in the mindset lately of well perhaps maybe i could

look for a job closer but my dilemma is that i have been working in the school district for 25 years as a custodial supervisor and i make about 68 000 a year

my concern is going someplace else and not making that kind of money i work my way up to where i am now there's also another reason i keep my house because i have extended family

also living in this house right now

why um my daughter had two young children and she got a divorce and was only making about 13 an hour so she had a hard time maintaining anything

and um so you're paying a house payment for her correct so when's she gonna get on her feet well she just got a promotion uh she started last week and it should bump her up to about twenty dollars come next month you need a plan for her to be on her own and you just sell that house and you guys ought to sell the house that you live in and you ought to move closer to both of your jobs

this is tough his job he's making over a hundred thousand so and he's just a bus driver in new york city so um okay so hold on i gotta jump in i'm going crazy so both of you make good money and you both are assuming that you can't do anything else so i want to i want to frame what you've been doing a little differently you're not just a supervisor of custodians in a education system

you are a leader of people in a specific area you're a leader oh it's true oh it's absolutely true well listen i'm the queen around here i know you are and here's the deal you got a lot of experience i just heard some sass come out we are in the hottest job market in the history of the united states and you have something to offer years and years of experience of leading people that are in uh

you know the traditional custodial roles and things of that nature there's a lot of options for you out there i would also say we have the greatest need in the history of the united states in the area of drivers whether it be uh your traditional 18 wheelers or other

we have a supply chain problem and i saw an article just last week there's a need

right now in the united states daniel for 80 000 truck drivers if he's driving a bus in manhattan he can drive something else you guys have got to get outside of this mindset that we can't make what we make or more somewhere else

because i don't believe that's true and you at least owe it to yourselves to do the research yeah investigate see what else is out there i mean you're like there's only one kind of spaghetti but you've never been to more than one restaurant that's right i mean go check out some spaghetti restaurants keto go look at the jobs that are on the plate out there and see what's happening

you have a lot of experience and skill to offer and not to mention you're the queen that's right well that comes that the royalty part should go a long way i like that yeah and here's the other thing a house is a stupid house yeah i ain't driving an hour and a half for a stupid house oh that's too short get you another stupid house there's stupid houses on every corner

and this idea that you know i'm not well i've always lived so what sell it i am not driving an hour and a half over a job or a piece of real estate all of these things can change and we didn't even discuss the potential financial gain from those two houses yeah assuming what their what their position is in them absolutely we got to get daughter up

and out so she can sell that other house but still oh my gosh y'all there's a lot of stuff going on here and you guys are holding on to the past so tightly you're not going to live well in the future yeah the past job history the past i worked so hard to get here so use that to go into something else i've always lived here so use that to get into something else don't hold on to

the past so tight that you lose your future all right jeff is with us in tulsa oklahoma hi jeff how are you

hi dave thanks so much for taking my call i really appreciate your time we're honored how can we help well i'm 56 years old and we're in baby

step seven and i heard you say something recently that got me to thinking and that is that social security basically is a break even if that and i was wondering what the advantages or disadvantages would be like if i were to take out my social security uh as early as i can 62.65 whatever the age is and invest that 62 and money it and don't touch it you'll end up with more money yes sir that's what'll happen that's my question yeah

so the difference in what you get paid if you wait to 65 versus 62 would be made up for in the investment that you create

by investing everything from 62 to 65.

you take all that put into a lump sum that lump sum will pay more than it would pay extra if you wait oh and when you die that money is in your estate when you die with social security it disappears magical government math

just gone poof just like that oh yeah

yeah yeah the social insecurity system gives you a negative rate of return

it is an absolute governmental disaster think dmv runs retirement program now

you got it figured out okay this is what's going on and and so well it was never designed to be retired programs designed to be a supplemental yeah it's designed to be supplemental and a whole bunch of people are living on it because we've raised a couple generations now that think the government is so smart they're going to take care of you and if you wait on

the government to take care of you your life is always going to suck so he's right just really smart to ask that question and say i'm not going to count on social insecurity when i get to retirement because i'm going to have actually saved some of my own money oh and when i do get the money from the government i'll never get as much out as i have put in

that means you have a negative rate of return you don't even get out as much as you put in unless you just live to 192 you know and so you're it's a negative rate of return they are sucking the blood out of the american public continually with this disaster of a program nobody gonna do anything about it though but i'll whine a little it's good for me yeah helps my blood pressure yeah ken coleman good show

this hour and uh james child's gonna show this hour jenna on the phones good job this is the ramsey show

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author and author of the brand new book from paycheck to purpose

the clear path to doing work you love is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five kelsey is with us in connecticut hi kelsey how are you hi dave hi ken this is exciting i wasn't expecting this today well we're honored to have you how can we help um i have a career question

so my boss has just asked me if i wanted to take over her small business it's a gym i'm a personal trainer but i was actually planning to join the air force in the next year and now i i just feel lost like i don't know what opportunity to do oh well this is a fun place to be in uh but i think we've got to simplify

this so your head and heart were totally focused on going into the air force for a future there and when your boss hits you with this it felt really good didn't it felt nice that she would trust you enough and it felt very nice correct

yeah yeah yeah good but after that wore off and you begin to really wrestle with well wait a second i think i was heading over here what was your heart telling you right before you made this phone call which way were you leaning because i know you were leaning one way yeah so i've really been leaning towards the air force i've i've actually been thinking about that since last um last march i've just been like head

and heart in there i just couldn't do it sooner because of medical reasons good but um so here's the deal i just so

here's the deal are you worried about letting your boss down or are you worried maybe what others might say about turning this on paper really amazing opportunity to run a business what's really making you question what you know you want to do that's what you have to answer right now what is what is causing the doubt about the military decision

um it's a woman's gym and i'm afraid that if i don't take it over it's going to close and i just care about the members a lot got it okay that's amazing now kelsey you got to be careful here to not misinterpret what is a really beautiful heart you're a good person and you have built relationships with those women you care about them you've invested in them and if you're not careful that false guilt

is going to turn into resentment if you were to do this and take this all for the right heart reasons you will be delaying and maybe

completely moving on from the thing that you know you're supposed to do and i'm telling you that will eventually turn into resentment and you have no reason to feel guilt about not taking this business those women will find other places to work out you didn't open it you didn't open it and it's not your responsibility to take care of their physical life do you understand what i'm saying yeah

it makes it makes a lot of sense i think like i talked to my family about it and of course my family's just gonna tell me to do what you know what i should do but i i just needed like an honest not family family-oriented opinion to kind of steer me in the right direction let's refocus for just a moment tell me in 30 seconds or less from your heart what

the future is because you're moving into the air force what's that look like and why are you doing it um the opportunity to travel meet a lot of new people go different places and

um just serve our country which is something i've been thinking about for a while that's that's all you need to focus on there's no guilt here you do what you believe you're supposed to do there's no guilt those ladies are gonna be fine one of them can take it and run it yeah

you're free kelsey that would do it yeah thank you yeah thanks for the call thank you for being willing to serve our country you're a great american absolutely yeah absolutely incredible well done all right open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five tyler's in fayetteville arkansas hi

tyler how are you good how are you dave better than i deserve what's up so um my main question is so i'm in the military right now and what i'm kind of struggling with is whether or not i should purchase a home while i'm on active duty or wait until i transition to the reserves right now that looks like a six year timeline just to give you some stats i have no debt i have about three hundred thousand dollars invested um with a tsp two roth

iras and a taxable brokerage account good for you um yeah oh thank you how much is in the bra

i have about 190 000 in there i believe way to go all

right and how how often will they move you and during the next six years while you're still active duty so i'm in yeah i'm in fort bragg right now in fayetteville and i will move in about three years and i eventually uh after my sixth year want to transition to the reserves and go to where my parents yep yeah so you don't need to buy and it's not

because you don't have the money you have the money but the problem is you're going to be moving and you're in an area that the uh the properties are largely military properties and so you've got a lot of properties coming on the market because they're always moving people and uh it's a little tougher to move a property in one of these military towns

agreed oh i agree oh i absolutely agree

that's what i was thinking too because my parents actually just recently moved to nashville and um knowing how the

housing market is there me and my wife are trying to decide whether or not to just keep investing and piling cash and then have a ginormous down payment yes and

then buy buy once you've settled into a place once you settle into wherever it is you're settling into and it's probably after your military career when you move into the reserves after your active duty career and thanks for your service because you're moving so often that you the house is not going to go up enough in value and it's hard to sell them sometimes and you can get stuck with properties everywhere you've been stationed

and so when you're moving every two to three years almost always it's better off to rent and just pile up some cash over here for when you settle in now some branches of the military some jobs in the military after a while in the career you will settle in and be in one location even while active duty for a long time if you're going to be there a while like five years plus

then yeah you just start talking about buying but most of you guys and gals are moved every two to three years and most of these markets do not support enough turnover and do not support a price increase to justify buying when you're only holding two to three years you'll lose money on the transaction if you can sell it or you'll get stuck with the thing and end up with rental properties dotted all over

the nation and you don't want to do that so but again thank you for your service as well yeah his theme is one of my favorite scenes from braveheart where the the english are thundering down the cavalry on wallace and his men

and he says hold hold hold and that's gonna be a great position when you get out exactly right exactly right i love it this is the ramsey show

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we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org budget we absolutely believe in it

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well we're coming into that time of year when some people get all stressed out about money it's called christmas

the gifts the travel expenses the extra food the bills oh and life still has to go on but what if money was something that you never had to fret about stress about worry about again what if christmas was actually like enjoyable and stuff

well you'd need a plan to cause that to happen and we can show you how to do it

it's called financial peace university this is the place where we teach you how to handle money how to get out of debt

how to build wealth how to be outrageously generous how to live on a budget how to live on a plan it's the class you should have been made to take back when you're in high school but back then nobody made you take it financial peace university and our premium version of every dollar the world's best budgeting app goes with

financial peace university when you become a ramsey plus member it gives you access to all of this stuff and much more if you want a free trial of ramsay plus to try all this out go to

slash ramseysolutions.com plus our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more it's an incredible american company blinds.com

use ramsey to get the best deal today's question comes from daniel in maine i got a job at a major law firm after my first year of law school i am now a third year law student and the firm i work for wants to hire me after graduation i would like to own my own law firm someday and feel like gaining experience in a smaller firm would be better to prepare me to achieve that goal would

i be crazy to reject a higher paying job at a respected law firm to pursue my dreams you wouldn't be crazy but i want to challenge this thought that you saying no to this bigger firm uh and going to work for a smaller firm is going to somehow prepare you to run your own firm better because you picture it being a smaller firm i actually think that

i would consider what you could learn from working for a bigger firm and understanding the complexities of the business and i think that's just as relevant as you would scale down eventually running your own firm so i i don't know that this is the actual right narrative that well if i work for a smaller firm that's going to better prepare me to run my own small firm one day

i think leadership is leadership organization is organization and i think you'd learn in some ways more from a larger firm and getting to know their leaders and those partners and learning from them taking the higher pay and then if you feel like that you can get something unique from a smaller firm let's move to that eventually so i wouldn't assume this is the right choice either way you've got to learn how to run a business that's correct

and so the more time you spend being a lawyer and the less time you spend on actually building business acumen regardless of which location you're in that's going to take away from your dream so your dream is you need to become a great lawyer but also learn how to run a law firm the

business practices of that so

i think you could get the the business acumen like ken is saying either place you've just got to be very intentional about it you're going to run into the dichotomy that anyone that has a a specific discipline or skill runs into

if you paint houses and you do a really good job and you want to be a painter and you want to own your own painting contracting firm running a painting contracting firm is different than painting that's a running of business that's a different set of skills and so the more you paint houses the less you will learn about running a business and the more chances of you failing running that business become so anybody that's a maker anyone that's a doer like a lawyer

even a doctor yep the more time you spend actually being a doctor and not

actually running the practice they're two different things and you can't make enough to out earn your stupidity so you've got to learn these business skills that's correct regardless of which place you are and the law the smaller firm could eat you up as a lawyer and take up all your time lawyering as much as the larger firm does so you just got to be intentional about wherever

you are learning the business skills yeah and so i think i'm with ken i think you took the higher paying job i do too i i just think that's better because there's some complexities at the larger firm that you're going to learn about amanda's in nashville hi amanda welcome to the ramsay show hi how are you better than i deserve what's up in your world um not a lot

i just had a quick question and i wanted to press this by saying that i do follow your plan but i've been trying to diagnose the medical condition for the past year so as you have a larger savings than you would approve of

my question is should i refinance my house to pay off my student loans or should i sell it pay off the mortgage should pay off the student loans and then rent until i can buy again my husband and i

okay a lot going on here how much is your student loan debt uh 137.

what's your degree in uh my husband is a chiropractor i'm a medical assistant okay and what does he make he makes around 110 i think is it your

student loan or his it's his oh okay he makes 110.

all right and um

interesting and and you make how much um i make somewhere around 30. but the household last year i think we brought home 122 not mistaken

it's going up this year have 130 000 in student loan debt yeah 137 137 okay and 63 and savings all together so

you not being able to work is not going to because the your income is a the smaller portion of your household income right yes and i i'm not you're met you that have a medical condition or him it's him oh it's him

oh so yeah we're both able to work so you're piling the money up because waiting on what this diagnosis for him might be what has he got what's going on with him um i'd rather not say it's just something that we've had to do a couple of diagnostics on in the past year

okay well depending on how debilitating it is and how sure the diagnosis is correct is uh the more debilitating and the more sure you are the more i'm just selling the house i'm not refinancing and borrowing your way out of the debt either way yeah our thought process there was that we would be able to lower the interest rate it's not an interest rate problem it's a debt problem okay

and you have a huge pile of debt so if you sold your home would it pay off the student loan and the home oh yeah everything and you'd be free okay so if he's not going to be able to earn that kind of income to be able to pay off the student loan

by being a chiropractor that he took out getting into that he took out to become a chiropractor because of this medical diagnosis yeah you need to sell the house to reset and to get yourself positioned to weather this health storm

okay now the the other question is this um or the other thing to bring up and because i you intentionally are i've got an incomplete picture because you're concerned about privacy and i that's okay all right but let me let me give you two other pieces of information that might enter into this when is are these uh federal student loans uh yes they are right now okay well they need to stay federal student loans because if he were to pass away they are

forgiven

okay well it's not anything that's serious it's just more of a yeah if he were be to be declared permanently disabled that's not going to happen either okay so it's not that extreme okay that's good yeah that's nothing extreme good okay so you're gonna pay them so the only question is how long is he to be with and you got you just had you guys have to assess

this the longer he's going to be out of work or have hugely diminished income the more i'm going to lean towards selling the house but if it's a one-year thing and you want to hold on that's fine hold on put the student loans on hardship deferral come back from the mess and get the income back up and attack the student loans and get rid of them i'd be okay with that yeah

i think the other factor here is how expensive could the treatment be i felt like there was a little hint towards that and that's why i'd still sell the house sets you free you got plenty of cash plenty of freedom and income to be able to pay for the treatment well when you come back and you're making you're making a hundred thousand dollars again after the other side of

this and just buy another house i agree that'd be an okay thing to do too this is the ramsay show

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage marcia and cameron are

with us hey guys how are you great how you doing yeah welcome where do you guys live uh fort branch indiana just outside of evansville all right well we got to get started with i love the t-shirts be the third pig the back is even better what's it say on the back we're debt free

that's right brick house be the pig in the brick house the third pig i love it

way to go you guys you're prepared for the big bad wolf excellent all right how much debt have you paid off uh we paid off uh 120 000 very good how long did that take uh about three years once we really got working together okay and what was your range of income during that three years um 90 up to 1 30. cool what do y'all do

for a living uh i manage a home improvement center and i'm the founder and executive director of non-profit benefiting kids in foster care oh good very good great good job you guys okay what kind of debt was the 000 well we were very normal we had uh student loans credit cards medical debt

and uh most recently our house wow

yes we did super weirdo i'm looking at weird people looking at weird third pigs i like it so uh what's this house worth uh 225 ish

that's so fun your house is paid for dude it feels weird yeah it's just strange i love it the grass feels better under your feet

yeah ken and i have a good friend down in atlanta just sent us a video this morning he paid off his house showed us hitting the hit and submit on the computer and then you see their feet out in the grass like euros youtube picture just a second ago here yeah the grass feels different under your feet when you pay for it way to go guys thank you thank you so very cool all right there's a story here how long you been married 13 years okay so three years ago you got

serious yes and you said you you did qualify you said when we finally got together and both of us were doing it we got serious it went zoom zoom tell us what happened and tell us how you got plugged into ramsey well our story goes back probably 10 years

i'm probably the the textbook example of of how not to do things i stumbled upon your radio show just driving one day and kind of dabbled in it didn't really you know go full force into the baby steps or anything but i started listening to you and and your principles made a lot of sense so i started doing some of the the steps and doing some of

the things and my mistake was i did not bring her in on it so although i was making a little bit of progress it was really creating a pinch point and a stress in our marriage because we weren't operating off of the same page and i'm over here trying to do one thing and she's doing another thing and it just it wasn't working out so well and a little bit of backstory to that is

when we we lived in kokomo indiana it was a 2008 during the

housing crash or flip or whatever it was and um we he's going to tell you a little bit more about that but but i guess what i was trying to say was uh dave ramsey was not a good word it was what would you say a cuss word in our family yeah um and i was i was the free

spirit that wanted to do whatever i wanted to do and i was even though we talked about what you were the plan i was i was not having it no not at all so what happened that caused you to get together and decide to do it together um well going back near to the beginning of our story uh near there anyway um we were upside down on a house by a lot and we got we moved my job moved us so

we were in a position where we were way underwater on our house and fortunately my parents have always

been a big help to us and my dad loaned

me some money about twenty thousand dollars just to be able to sell our house and you know write the check to get out of it um and then you know fast forward we were gonna pay him back it was alone and uh that very next christmas after christmas dinner my dad sat us down and

said that his present to us was we didn't know him that money back anymore wow so um that really did it for me that was kind of my why because you know it really got me thinking you know if i ever want to be in a position to be able to bless my kids and my family like that then i really need to do something different than i've been doing so i don't know really what was it that three years ago really put us on it together so another important fact in

10 years ago we actually owed 216 000

dollars so we came a long way as we as we marched forward uh to three years ago um but three years ago he he was just so

excited about your principles and he's he started he started teaching fbu classes and uh and and sitting in that class he invited me to really be hands-on and part of it and and i had started listening to him and your principles and and i got excited myself and i became the i don't want to sit at this table and talk about this i don't like that name in my house i want to buy whatever i want to like come on guys you can do this and um and really the the where we

got gazelle intense was um during the pandemic uh just a little over i guess it's been like 15 months now but my dad was um he was dying and uh he did not leave a good family tree as far as finances and and we were really left with a huge mess and then i have my own um medical issues that that i was told that i was a big high-risk complications from kovid

and i just it just really was an eye-opener that i have two amazing kids and what if something happened to one of us in this time how would i what would that mean for my family and um and that was it like i was sold i didn't care from then on else if we were eating rice and beans being the rice we were getting everything paid off

and so i called him at work one day and i said let's do this we can do this and we're here we did this and we're grateful and he's like who are you and what have you done with my wife

way to go you guys yeah i just want to know i mean obviously we heard the whole backstory i want to know you get really fired up right and so now we've got big motivators yeah what was the hardest part once you actually got into it because there's that initial high this must be done right conviction and at what point did you start to struggle or did

you struggle and what'd you do to get out of that yeah we did i think the biggest thing was it was so different you know we'd never it was the first time in our marriage that you know we had really been on the same page and focusing on the same common goal and there's unbelievable power in that you know we did it for so long um you know

i i we were talking on the way down here i felt like i was you know repairing holes in the boat while she's on the other end drilling bigger ones and and you know so just once we really grasped the concept and started working together it was so different than anything we'd ever done that it took us a while to kind of adjust to that and getting accustomed to using a budget

and following the every dollar budget but you know really once we started on that same page together it was game on very cool i used to be the kind of person that i'd get a couple hundred dollars from a bonus or something i'd be like oh he didn't know and i'm shoving that in the drawer because i'm going to go shopping and he'd see it when it showed up on amazon right on my front door or wherever that was from

and it just became you know what we have extra money let's do something intentional with it let's be intense and it was it was really just getting on the same page and actually i was sharing this this story with somebody a couple weeks ago about being able to be on this stage and share such a a big win for our family and changing the family tree and um

and i said you know what i think another big motivator was knowing this is not like something that somebody else can do we can do this every day people

can do it if you if you do it on purpose and i have to give a plug to my son here let's get the kids in what are their names and ages uh jackson and harmony okay so jackson twelve and seven twelve and seven so jackson is is i think he was born a nerd like his dad um and we gave him the give save spend

pigs many years ago and he was really diligent about giving and saving giving and saving and um he is going to be 13 in february and by his 13th birthday he is going to have a toyota camry paid for with less miles than my vehicle and a 3 000 savings account well done

very impressive all right marcia cameron jackson and harmony harmony from evansville indiana 120 000 paid off in three years making 90 to 130 be the

third pig house and everything count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three

two one we're dead free

wow what a complete transformation

and the reluctant spouse goes in to help with financial peace university whoop whoop there it is

this is the ramsay show [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show he's a number one best-selling author and his brand new book is out from paycheck to purpose the clear path

to doing work you love patty is with us in boise idaho hi patty welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you for taking my call sure you had a call a few minutes ago that piqued my interest and i'm trying to understand my husband is losing his job on friday

because he won't take the covet shot and his company is firing everybody that will not do it they're not doing exemptions or anything he is almost 62 he'll be 62 in just a

couple of months and we're trying i'm 51 or 51 so i'm a

little bit younger than he is how has he been with that company uh seven years wow okay

um and it's been a lot it's been a lot of going back and forth they kept coming back and forth and saying you're going you're not you're going you're not and finally today they just said no you're going like everybody that refuses is just gone so what we're trying to figure out is somebody asked you about early retirement with social security and one of the things that he and i wondered is would it be better for him to take early retirement because we understand that investing that would be better but he's not ready to quit work and i was under the impression that if you took early social security that they ding you if you are working correct and okay so you don't get a lump sum that's why no it's not a lump sum it's monthly income okay if you start your social security at 62 you get a smaller monthly income than if you started at 65.

but then if he continues to work don't they doing that social security exactly they will yeah okay so probably if he's gonna go back to work don't take social security okay okay he would not be happy not not working he's still got years where he's going to want to be productive he's not going to want to just well i would hope so he's just a spring chicken we're

the same age so there you go yeah no and he loves what he does i mean you know most people go to work and they come home and leave their work at work he's he's an inventor and an engineer and that's what he loves and so he does it all the time so he's not really ready to just give that up and so we weren't sure if taking early retirement

i from the call it sounded like the guy was going to take a one lump sum was so secure it's not a lump sum they don't offer lump sum if they did i would have already taken it okay okay well that helps thank you early and often as i can get money from the government that is mine that i've given them and i'm not even going to get

it all back i would take all i could get as fast as i could get it because uh they've been screwing me for years and so i'd be happy to take some of it back and that sentence you just uttered is a total fantasy oh i know i didn't say it would happen i just said it'd be nice no i know i'm so saying we would all be doing that yeah oh boy

we'll turn into this grumpy old man molly's in st louis hey molly how are you good um thank you for taking my call sure what's up we well i just feel busy so we have a farm we have a rental property and my husband has a generator business and our money i feel like our money's in a good place um but the farm operation is a little tricky to wrap our brains around like how to get

it to where it's debt-free but also like the motivation behind it because like if you if you so we use an operating loan

while the crops are being put out and all that um so it gets paid back uh gets paid down to zero but

um if we so if we buy if we save to buy land you can't deduct that purchase so you have to pay tax on anything what's your question if how do we get rid of our operate i'm not really sure honestly how do we get rid of our operating loan uh like what's the motive behind that

when we would have to pay so much in tax to build up enough money to to have the cash to do that okay um you understand a tax deduction

is not a tax credit so the operating loan does not benefit you for taxes except for 25 percent of the interest that you pay there's almost zero tax benefit for an operating loan

did you know that um i thought our i thought what we paid on that was part of our farm expense no not for not not the principal only the interest okay only the interest okay and so let's let's put how big is the operating loan typically um our limit is 225 the max was ever done

is like 160. okay so let's just use some crazy numbers okay let's say you did 160 000 and it cost you uh eight percent of that and so it cost you

or ten percent of that it wouldn't be that much what's your interest rate four percent okay four percent all right and so it costs you what sixteen thousand it costs you about four thousand dollars in interest yeah no it cost you about six thousand seven thousand dollars in interest okay well seven thousand dollars in interest is all that's deductible nothing else is deductible correct okay now the seven thousand dollar tax deduction if you're in a thirty percent tax bracket saves you two thousand one hundred dollars in taxes

okay so you're screwing around with 160 thousand 000 for a 2 000 benefit and calling that sophisticated that's not sophisticated

no i think the issue is more we're not it's not really that to get the deduction it's it's like okay so then i misspoke okay um so if i in order for us to build up like

you have to pay taxes on 160 000 worth of income to have 160 000

yes that's how life works yeah yeah yeah but that's what you need to do to get out of the operating loan business because all you got to have is one bad crop in your bankruptcy

do you make in a year on the farm do you think um this last year after we did everything we'll have like a hundred thousand okay income and so so

let's pretend and let's say okay you need hundred and sixty so let's say over four years we're going to take 40 000 a year and we're going to borrow 40 000 less each year because the 100 000 in profit you pay taxes on you don't have a choice

okay so after you pay taxes on your hundred thousand dollars i want you to put forty thousand dollars aside each year for four years that will equal 160 000 now you are your own line of credit because you actually have some freaking money and i'm curious really quick molly i'd love dave to hear this i want to hear this how much is the rental property worth what do you owe on it uh we don't know anything on the rental property what's it worth probably worth

450. what kind of profit does the generator business make

so real quick generally we take home five thousand a month okay okay so 60 000 on that so you're making 160 000 a year you've got a 450 000 rental property if i were in your shoes i'd sell the rental property and fund my operating line that's what i'm thinking you're 100 debt free you're operating the business debt free you're going to increase your you're going to decrease your hassle

because you're dealing with a renter a generator business and a farm okay so you're going to decrease the craziness where you're chasing your tail when you started the call you talked about how confused you were and um and you're getting rid of the debt which lowers the stress of the situation and you're paying cash for everything on the farm from this day forward and you're paying cash for everything in

the generator business from this day forward and you never fall for the tax deduction myth again because when you fall for the tax deduction myth and you call that smart really what you're saying out loud is i love trading dollars for quarters because that's what a tax deduction does it trades a dollar for a quarter and you don't want trade dollars for quarters so don't stay in debt for

the tax deduction and don't stay in debt because you think you have to you don't have to

effectively you are borrowing against your rental property once a year for an operating loan that's what the balance sheet says it's technically not a loan on the rental property i got that but effectively that's what you're doing yeah so you can clean up your whole life pretty quickly if i were in your shoes and i wanted to be a farmer i'd sell the rental property if i didn't want if i want to be a rental landlord and not be a farmer i'd sell the farm this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsey show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today his new book is out and on the bookshelves and at ramseysolutions.com flying out the door it's called from paycheck to purpose

the clear path to doing work you love so

if you want to talk about career and jobs this hour well mr ken coleman is here to help and of course i'm here to help you with your life and your money we started pre-sale on my first book in eight years

wow yesterday i didn't how's that feel it's been a long time since you put a book out it feels old but um yeah i mean basically i've been putting your all's books out first i know so now now you're on the cover now i have 10 ramsey personalities and putting putting out books on tim ramsey personalities and supporting and pushing out those brands and helping those has been my job for eight or ten years

and so the last book i did was actually with rachel so she and i did number one bestseller called smart money smart kids um and she was of

my daughter rachel cruz is one of the ramsey personalities and so um this one's uh not got anybody's name on it but mine and it's all about the people that have followed the baby steps and have become millionaires and it's the proof text to prove to you that you can too not billionaires millionaires have a one million dollar net worth or greater and there's that that's you

you would want more than that probably that's not enough maybe i don't know but it's a million and it's million more than most people got it yeah so if you want to be a baby steps millionaire we can show you how and following the baby steps gets you there and this is a you know truly motivational book to show you exactly with the math exactly with statistics exactly what will happen with

the arithmetic if you follow this process you will get there and it also pretty much tears up anybody's who tears anybody's butt up who says you can't do it and so i spent a few chapters tearing up those butts little whack-a-mole in there a little whack-a-mo a little chapter little uh solve the objection to

make the sale thing so uh people that tell you you can't win i don't like those kind of people so it's my job to tear their butt up that's the thing so um it's what we do so baby steps millionaires on sale now it actually comes out january the 11th if you pre-order it you get all kinds of goodies including e-books and books and 100 worth of stuff so check it all out at ramseysolutions.com chad is in minneapolis hey chad how are you

better than i deserve how are you just the same sir what's up

so i've got a question um

my fiance and i have very different views on money we're going to get married next next summer congratulations yeah thank you uh grew up on a farm working saving you know striving for a better life it wasn't that i was destitute when i was growing up but you know it was it was not always the easiest thing her mom had her my my fiance's grandfather passed away and her mom had inherited millions of dollars never had to work and ended up raising nine kids on her own after her dad left

um and sort of abandoned the family

and then ended up using the money that she had inherited to manipulate the kids into doing things into thinking the way that she did doing things for her but ultimately has left sort of a bad taste in her mouth with money

how do i work with her to show her that money isn't intrinsically evil um i am i'm the breadwinner i i have a very good career

um you know i make about 120 she makes

38. how how do i work with her to show her that money's not bad how old are you guys uh 36 and 38. okay

okay um either one of you been married before both of us have actually so we're we're combining i've got four boys she has two girls okay well let me tell you some statistical things to think about and these are things you can go over with her okay um one of the things you want to do anytime you want to enter into anything

in business we would study if you want to enter into marketing we would study marketing and emulate best practices find best practices and find

where the landmines are we want to avoid the mind landmines keep from getting your leg blown off right and we want to emulate people who are winning we want to copy the things that the people that are winning are doing agreed

okay so here's what you guys are facing it's not insurmountable by the way but it is an uphill climb you have three major strikes against your marriage before it even starts

you don't address these i'll give you a high probability of failure okay number one her family upbringing was toxic she comes from a highly dysfunctional family number one hard to have relationships when you have come from a highly dysfunctional family unless you've dealt with it did i did i misstate that

no okay number two you both have failed at marriage before and if you have not healed through those failures and learned from those failures um you will replicate the exact same stupid crap again

high probability of failure if you do not deal with that that's right number three the number one cause of divorce in north america today money disagreements money fights and money problems and you're already having those you have to solve all three of those before the summer

and and to be honest with you so in in both both of our um both of both of us

chose to leave our marriages due to a lot of issues unfortunately i we we knew each other's exes so we we saw it there was a lot of people that saw it um yeah wonderful you

still both failed at marriage listen dude you got what i'm trying to tell you is you guys need a lot of one-on-one

counseling pre-marriage counseling to deal with these three issues before you walk down the aisle otherwise statistically you have a very high probability of hitting the wall yeah don't miss this i'm not trying to say you can't make it i'm just saying dude there's land mines everywhere and i'm trying to guide you through them and you need a coach a counselor that they can talk to the two of

you that is excellent that is world class this is not two little puppies getting married and they need some little pat on the hand pre-marriage counseling you need to deal with divorce healing you need to deal with her toxic upbringing because her mother's crazier than a freaking bean man what you described to me is dangerous stuff and then on top of that you're in total disagreement have different value systems about money

and you boiled it down to she thinks money's evil that's not the problem here that'll be one of 14 things that come up while y'all unpack this yeah chad i hope you're hearing this you need to pause this wedding date until this stuff gets fixed we didn't say not marry her we said pause well i don't even need to pause it you just gotta do the work between now

and summer well i i appreciate that dave it's very optimistic i i think it's pause until we get healthy and on the same page of this and i'd say this she's gonna have to see a desired future that you both agree on that money helps us get there that's eventually where you're gonna have to get her if you can't agree about money you're not gonna agree about life

and you guys really do have some work to do to get ready for this marriage i think you can do it but you're not gonna do it if you'd ignore it

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so

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have you guys heard that the real estate market is crazy what what are you talking about nuts buyers out there i think they got a buy there's a line around the block multiple bids every stinking house listing is an auction i mean out of freaking control and mortgage interest rates are lower i don't know how they can get any lower they're going to pay you to take a mortgage soon

i think hey don't get me wrong a low rate's a good idea it's not a green light to do stupid stupid as in buying before you're debt free or with a zero down payment or just lining up and paying like way too much for something because you're out of control hey get your head out of the craziness for a second look at you and your situation

are you debt-free you have a good strong down payment saved preferably 20 that'll avoid pmi

right can you really afford home ownership do you really want the responsibility you know somebody's got to cut the grass hello if and only if your answer is a big fat yes to all those questions then buying a home is a really smart move for you and it's easy to get caught up in all the crazinesses out there which is why you need the facts go use our free mortgage calculator to figure out what

you can actually afford with the mortgage options that are out there go to ramseysolutions.com click free tools to check it out free tools to check it out josh is with us in greenville south carolina hey josh what's up

hello sir gentlemen thank you for your time in advance uh my question is i

am selling my home back up in indiana it's set to close on the 30th and i have not heard this question yet uh

how do i keep myself from feeling like i've hit a jackpot and keep myself more along the lines of adulting i am going to admit that i've been like ramsay-ish along the way but i do have plans to get my uh debt paid off and say that's such a good question yeah that is very good how much is the house selling for dude

uh i i asked for 135 and i originally

bought the home nine years ago about 86 so i'm looking at roughly 50 something

thousand dollars in your pocket and you've never seen fifty thousand dollars in your pocket not in one lumps and no sir how old are you i am 32.

what does it do to your head and heart

you know the only way i've been able to work through it and i have to work through it regularly because uh sometimes my emotions still operate um you know making one jillionth of what i make now uh and so i mean we spend more on copier paper in ramsey than i used to make in a year you know so uh it's weird it's an emotional sure it's an emotional swing

so the way i do that is just you know john dr john delaney says facts are our friends yeah and so uh what i would tell you to do josh is just write down a lot of facts

facts are that emotionally 50 000 feels like a lot of money but actually the arithmetic on it is it's not much right you know and so like facts are i can buy this or this or this but then i'd have nothing facts are i i want to do this with it so that i can turn 50 000 into 500 000 over the next 10 years with the house by or whatever it is what are my facts

not my feelings feelings will lie to your butt

yes sir and so that that's what you're fighting against and that just means you're just like a a real person because we all fight against that but the feeling is like oh man like woohoo i've

hit the lottery but then the facts are

i could fritter this away real quickly and i really would end up with two ugly cars and that's it you know or something you know it would just be bad and then you'd be mad at yourself for like a decade for the having screwed this up and that's a fact those are facts and you know it won't hurt to sit down at the computer and just write some of those things down like write yourself a note that says you know hey let's be a grown up here you know i i have attendance i could be a lottery winner and act like i'm in high school and but adults devise a plan and follow it children do what feels good that's what i want to add josh while you're writing down what dave asked you to write down i want you to write down what your future looks like what are you dreaming about because dave here's what's going on you're absolutely right uh feelings are always present focused exactly exactly plans was future focus wisdom is an act of the will yeah i want to think about distance vision is an act of the will that's it and i think the desired future if you plan it out and then you say where does this new found money this 50 000.

how does it plug into that and what that does is that unplugs it from friday night 100 now we got discipline it unplugs it from a visit to target that's right or hey none of those things are none of these things are wise right because he could be tempted to buy a new car he's got the cash but wait a second where are you or you allocate 2 000 of it to blow to get it out of your system then it'll go i'm going i'm going to be wise with the other 48.

uh i just turned 20 and um

i'm gonna be honest all throughout high school i kind of was a knucklehead i mean i didn't say no i didn't by the way that comes with the deal daughter ken was a knucklehead all the way through high school man you know man i wasn't even a knucklehead i was just an idiot yeah welcome to the humanities

yeah i um got really bad grades and all that and uh now i'm kind of looking more towards the future now that life has kind of hit me yeah i'm still left at home i've got a paper route i make about 20 000 a year

um and i'm thinking about going into the military so they'll pay me to go to school as well as um i would like to serve my country it'd be an amazing thing and i'm thinking about going into the police force and it's pretty seamless to go from that um into a city police uh where i'm at

um i don't actually need a college education for it but um if it's paid for you know i thought that i might as well take it um but my main thing is my family isn't quite on board with me going into the army why just because they're they're very very scared um mainly because i'm not sure if i want to go active duty yet or not oh they're just worried about your safety 100 oh yeah that as well as um

i didn't tell you i am uh 17 000 in debt

i found you just a little too late um i got into a 400 car payment so dalton before i run out of time what's your question honey um i was just wondering uh

what i should do as far as the military as well as um working my way out of debt in the meantime got it ken well i i got to tell you i think i heard your heart here and i think if you want to serve our country i would not chase the military option just as an education fund it's not a bad move it's nothing moral about

it but i want you to decide why do you really want to serve our country uh and i think it's in that answer of being a police officer you want to protect and serve and so i say go be sensitive to your parents they're concerned about your safety but i think you've got to do what your heart's telling you to do and the good news is you can pay off that car loan uh you're 20

you didn't find dave and ramsey solutions too late you can pay that off in no time i mean you're making 20 from a paper route what if you went right now in this market where people are looking for anybody with a pulse and they'll pay them 15 an hour minimum wage how can you

go get another job pay that 17 000 off

really quickly and then step into the military serve your country and then find a way to step into a police force and protect and serve your community i think you got to do what you want to do you're heading in the right way young man um just move slowly and make sure you spend a lot of time uh beating up the recruiter for the best possible deal yeah on what

it is you're signing up for and that you get into an area of the military that's going to serve your long-term dreams and serve your educational dreams make sure you get all of that in the package you might even have your dad or mom involved with you in negotiating with the recruiter this is the ramsey show

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ken coleman

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oh now this is fun this is fun right here in the lobby of ramsay solutions on the debt free stage our good friends dr andrea and jim are with us all the way from bowling green ohio i got that right that's correct good friends of ramsey been friends a long time and you're here to do a debt-free scream we are yeah i love it

you know here's a weird fact for you this is the second bowling green ohio debt-free scream in a week really what are the chances of that stinky little town it's wonderful the lady was a big uh the kids were at the university they were falcons right yes yeah yeah cool all right andrea how much debt have y'all paid off we have paid off 158 000.

how long did this take 24 months you rock wow and your range of income during that time it was we started off at 130 and then we ended at 190. okay i know the answer but the listeners don't what do you guys do for a living i am a clinical child psychologist and i'm a capital project manager awesome very cool and what kind of debt was your 158

000 well 46 000 was my student loan debt for being going earning a phd over 10 years of higher ed um he didn't come into the relationship with any debt and then the other 112 was our house

we are looking at weird people i love it way to go you guys what's the house worth uh 300 000 we checked zillow just before we came up here i like that he was ready i had it appraised 10 minutes ago yeah i was a project manager well done you guys well done so a phd and a project

manager and a house worth 300 grand and

you guys are how old 38 wow

36. on your way to being baby steps millionaires if you're not already well done you guys i'm so proud of you thank you it's neat and i'm proud of you as your friend too so very very well done good stuff all right so what inspired you 24 months ago to get on this horse and make sure it's done well it's a little bit broken up so we did it in two phases so back in december of 2013 when i earned my phd

and we had that 46 000 we decided hey we're just gonna we're not gonna pay a penny to sally may we're just gonna get rid of it in that six-month grace period and so we just lived off of one salary and we paid off the 46 000 in that sixth month grace period before we had any interest so we got rid of that and then

we took a little bit of a break we bought some stuff we bought some stuff with cash with cash but you were on baby steps four through six at that point because you're working on your house absolutely no other debt left but the house at that point correct right and we had some twins via ivf which is a pretty penny if anyone's done ivf um it costs quite a bit of money so we had that and we also bought three cars in that amount of time with cash and not new um and then

probably in december of 2019

that's kind of when we got intense about it with paying off the house over the course of the years we had led financial peace university and we had walked alongside people and one of us would say like hey we're teaching financial peace university we're really supposed to be paying off the house early and then the other one would run the numbers and that person would be like it's not worth

it i'd be the one running the numbers saying it's not worth it and i would be like well maybe we should try and he'd be like uh no i wanna i wanna live a little bit and i was like okay and then we'd run some more people through financial peace and i'd be like we really should pay off the house and then in december 2019 he looked at me

and he was like he ran the numbers again and oh we should pay off the house oh no there it is jim what changed uh

well when i was doing it early you know you just buy a house you get a 15-year mortgage how much sacrifice am i gonna have to make to pay it off you know two years early you know it's a ton of sacrifice there when you're really early to uh to pay it off that much early and then we just after seven years or six seven years it's like oh okay

the number i can hit is much smaller now and i actually felt attainable i felt attainable yeah i could do oh in 18 months in in 12 months if we really buckle down we can actually do this and really having that ability to do it was like all right let's let's get after it and we paid it off so cool and then it was funny because then in december of 2020

when we sat down to set up our each of our individual goals i was like hey for a financial goal let's pay off our house by may and he ran the numbers again and he's like there's no way we can do that and i was like but let's set it as a goal and he's like there's no way and then

he's going to love this background we paid in may 21st of 2021

wow wow way to go you guys how's it feel

to not have a payment in the world absolutely wonderful yeah it's great it's if you run the numbers on that oh yeah give him a minute dave i i've done the numbers of you know also hit zillow right before you came up with you know how much per year all that what are we going to have in 20 years all that's done but uh it's just the

the ability to know that you know whatever i'm whatever i have is we own everything that we have and that any dollar that's coming in if i'm spending a dollar like i don't have to worry about that right it provides us freedoms like oh i can help someone out you know i you know we can make independent decisions of like oh we don't you know our ability to make financial decisions of just on

the spot is so much higher and being able to feel that when someone's needs something or we want to do something it's just it's done there's no worry about it because we know we have the money and i think the other thing with that is that not only financial decisions but we can also make career changes so after we paid off the house in may we actually both changed careers in june of

this year and so we both started new jobs because we had the financial security of we didn't have any more debt wow good for you that's very

cool yeah because you know it's um i can work where i want now it changes everything you know i don't have anybody breathe i don't have anything breathing down my neck that says i have to stay in this environment i can do it it's really interesting the psychology there because it gives you guys a little bit more confidence to make the move because it's a big deal to switch yeah to pivot there's a whole lot of unknowns

there absolutely give you that extra confidence it's really interesting i gotta know all right so you're going maybe may he's like i don't think so maybe you just wore him down what was the intensity i'm just curious what was the most intense thing you guys did to meet that stretch goal because it feels like it was a stretch it wasn't even really a stretch because what we did was

i had opened a private practice in 2020 2020 and we just didn't touch

that money we just kind of set it aside so then at the end of 2020 we just took all the money out of the private practice and just threw it at the debt and then oh i see so jim was spending that money and that's why i didn't think it was possible yeah it was in his spreadsheet it was in the spreadsheet yeah and it's really you know

when you get that really you took a second job really of his second career you just put that all towards it although it didn't feel like that because it was where we wanted to go career-wise anyway and just kept you know two jobs at the the same time and then made the transition fully for her to private practice after we paid it off i love it i'm

so proud of you guys thank you well done well done all right when you're teaching financial peace what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is the key is budget i cannot tell you the number of times just sit down and have a budget meeting with your spouse and sit down and run the numbers and give every single dollar a name and just

the just the amount of people realizing when

they actually sit down and do a budget and be like i should have a thousand dollars more this month where is it going and i'm like i don't know you tell me you're the one spending it and then it's just life-changing and marriage changing it changes your marriage when you no longer have to fight about money yeah very cool all right jim have you run the numbers when you're going to be a millionaire uh yes it's soon if not happened so

he's

he's already there he's already there

way to go baby steps millionaires i love it this is why i come down here and work still just for this there it is there it is i'm so proud of you guys well well done very well done excellent excellent stuff all right who are your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you um probably your parents yeah probably my parents and you know my family's been you know my mom got me

the uh totally money makeover when i was in college my dad would watch you i believe fox business on like saturday morning financial peace baby yeah yeah i mean

yeah so they just gave me that

my grandparents you know it was always you know not having debt and just you know being able to pay for things and blessed me with not having any you know debt going coming out of college um and so that's just kind of my family's just you know grown up in that and and so they were really just just living living how we live you know dr andrea and jim 158 000 paid off 24 months house and

everything not even 40 years old we suspect they're baby i love it making 130-190 a year count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free

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this is how it's done boys and girls

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our scripture today psalms 86 11 teach

me your way lord that i may rely on your faithfulness give me an undivided heart that i may fear your name dr martin luther king said you don't have to see the whole staircase just take the first step boy there's so much in that so much in that just take the first step bj's with us in baltimore hi bj welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for taking my call

we just love you guys um we were doing the dave ramsey and we paid off all of our debt except for our house way to go um when we had a second mortgage so we just have the regular mortgage now so um the question is i have a lot of

health issues and as i've um i've had to go to a natural doctor because the regular doctors weren't working and my husband has a year and a half before he retires and my aunt has offered to sell us her trailer but we would have to relocate

and the question is should we take early retirement and then take the the difference because she's practically giving it to us um should we should he take early retirement and then pick up another job

because he would need something to do because we could actually live on his

early retirement or should he continue working where he's at and then possibly

just rent a place and but all the rentals are more than what are what we would pay what do you owe on your home we owe a 125. and what does he make

he makes uh 80.

do you not like your home i have health issues i can't go up and down steps the bathroom is up on the second floor and in the basement so you need to sell the house for your health reasons yes to get you into a one-level property

we could live in the basement which has a bathroom but it's who really wants to live in a basement yeah amen okay and so your houses would sell for how much it would sell for uh 200 to

uh either 180 to 200 000.

and you owe 125.

yes okay why don't you sell it and buy a one bedroom or i'm sorry a one level house around a 150.

well in this area if you can sell yours for 200 you can buy something for 150 that's not that dissimilar to what you're living in

if yours sells for 200 150 175 will buy

a very nice one level on your freaking street

okay you know this is a large house that's got an apartment in the basement it's all been redone okay so sell it for 200 and buy yourself a nice one level house for 150 to 175.

okay so it wouldn't be a problem to have another mortgage because he retires in a year and a half nope because he's going to keep working after he retires and he makes enough to live on when he retires i'm not moving you into a trailer that's going down in value there's not a good enough deal in the world to move into a trailer there's not a good enough deal in the world to live into a trailer that's going down in value and this be your signature golden years no thank you

all right so i think i think you're sick of these stairs and you know you're just grasping at straws trying to get out of there but here's the principle bj that you need to hear okay okay if you're gonna sell a house in a market and buy a house in the same

market you're going to sell in the like things are crazy over there right yeah so you're going to sell in crazy and you're going to buy in crazy so this is a net net it's not a net loss it's

not i i sold low and bought high i sold

high and bought high it's a net net so it doesn't prohibit you from making the move and you you know now if you move from a crazy low market to a crazy high market you know you might have an argument then but if you moved on your same street

you you can move down in house down in price and get into one level three bedroom house and that's smaller than the one you're living in and do it in the 150 to 175 range uh if your current home really is worth 200. now dave you were so certain about the trailer what if it has a redwood deck does it change your opinion

what if it has an outdoor above ground

pool you were still you were so certain dave i was like wait a second i feel like you oversimplified that oh i'm just talking about things i'm talking about things that go down in value that's absolutely right i couldn't resist i'm not above any of that in terms of being a snob that's not the point the point is the stinking things go down in value yeah and they're basically a car you sleep in alex is with us in new york city alex

how are you redwood you didn't see that one coming i didn't see that okay what's up alex hey dudes ken how are you we're doing great man what's up so i kind of have like a part i guess student loan and retirement questions so

i was as they say i was dumb and i went to out of state school and um i let my folks

handle a lot of the student loan stuff and borrowed more than i needed so um so yeah long story short i paid off the loans in my name to the point where my employer will pick up um the payments the minimum payments and then the big one is the pan plus loans that i'm also paying on um uh that right now i got it down to 150

150 000. wow um

so your parents took out parent plus loans but you've agreed morally to pay them yes you're not legally obligated but you you that's the deal between you and your mom and dad yes okay and your student loans are all gone uh all except for eight thousand but my employer they're paying um a certain amount per month on it what's your degree in accounting what do you make uh right now make 80. how old are you

24. master's degree in accounting

no uh i decided to go to community college for the 1503 so i was smart with that i decided not to uh build a master's degree you went to a community college for 150 000 in student loans debt on a parent plus loan no no no no no so i went to uh uh an out of

state college four year um so most of what is it 180 ended up being for the my

four years and then i just cash flowed 2000 for community

college because for accounting you need 30 extra credits so i just did a community college instead of masters oh i see what you're doing okay yeah you're talking about credit you're talking about getting your cpa okay all right okay okay okay okay so you're 24 and you're making 80 grand all right yeah well you got 150 to go

my question was like i wasn't sure like if since it's not in my name oh yeah it's in your name you shook your daddy's hand all right yeah yeah this is your you took on this debt your you claimed this debt i heard you a minute ago yeah i don't care if the law doesn't say you owe it but the law of the of your household says

you owed it because you're a man and you gave your word yes that's yeah so you're gonna pay it yeah going to treat it like your debt because it is your debt the technicality of the legal technicality don't get you out of it you're going to pay it anyway so you're going to pay it like it's your debt because it is your debt now you took it on

so yeah 50 000 bucks a year for three

years you're done and that means you're on beans and rice rice and beans or forty thousand dollars a year for four years and you're done by the way your income is going to increase dramatically from 80 as you move on from 24 years old up to an accounting degree and so all of those increases do not go to partying or having fun in new york they go to paying off daddy's loan that you promised him you would pay

yeah did i read your mail all right

he was just running his weekend schedule through his head right there just cancelled that vacation that all-inclusive in jamaica that's what just happened yellow yeah you got to clean this mess up dude [Laughter] and the fast deeper you sacrifice the faster you'll get out that's the formula and the faster you get out the better life you're going to have live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else great job ken coleman thanks for having me great job james jim jim

jimmy's in there we'll be back before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

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## 206. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from November 19, 2021)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm george campbell ramsay personality host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast and i'm joined today by the wonderful rachel cruz best-selling author host of the rachel cruz show all around great person rachel how are

you doing great george this is our second time hosting together we were such a fan favorite we're back the votes are in the votes i wish that was a true story it was just a luck of the draw this time but i i do enjoy hosting with you uh two of our money personalities together we're like the avengers avenging debt i guess and the student loan crisis take over

the world in the student loan crisis i love it i'm here for it we should it's a free call this hour open phones triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number to call hopefully kelly gets you through and we can have a conversation about whatever's on your mind whatever's uh whatever you're worried about something maybe you're excited about maybe there's a decision you're trying to make

and you just need some affirmation from some friends we are those friends today that's right that's what i love about this it's it's everything around your life right i mean obviously through the money lens for a lot of people but money touches every part of our lives so it adds in the relationships it adds in the stress and the anxiety it adds in everything so it is life

i mean in and out day and day i love it well let's get to it here's what we're here for sean is on the line in los angeles sean welcome to the ramsay show hi uh thanks for having me absolutely it's all good uh we just bought a my wife just got married did for um our uh honeymoon and all that stuff everything is good you just bought in her car cash um thank

you very much um so we just bought her car cash um and then we ended up out of vehicle so we have about like maybe like 11 000 saved after everything um and then uh i'm gonna get six thousand back from from the other one so i'm wondering uh do we go like you know do i kind of try to spend it all on something and try to get something a little more reliable or do

i nickel and dime at like five thousand and then throw the rest of it um the only deal we have is a student loan so of um trying to tackle that too so i'm not really sure what we should do yeah well i mean i don't like the word only debt yeah it's the only debt i have how much is this debt the student loan well it's pretty steep it's like 50 57 000

but we're good good earners and you know we haven't we had to map out just something unfortunate happened you know you know what i mean yeah how urgent is this car purchase um it has to be done yeah i mean uh i mean yeah i mean we both commute for work so we got to do it and you have one car right now one car yeah okay

so you need another car for the job and you have eleven thousand dollars saved in cash is that all of your savings everything liquid cash you have right now yeah it was all we had kind of um i planned on just throwing that straight at the debt and then and then this came up so now but we do have i'll get six thousand back from from everything else what's everything else uh my insurance it'll be though

you know big crashes okay so they'll write you a check for six grand you're saying yeah okay all right that helps we got all the details down rachel yeah i mean sean if i was in your boat because of the student loan obviously you guys need a car i mean that is we talk about your four walls transportation is one of those so i'm not against obviously

you getting a car uh but no i would not spend all of this on the car because you

can still get a reliable used car i mean you can i mean it's amazing honestly four five six thousand dollars what that will get you no it's not gonna be a beautiful car it's gonna be an older one but you go get you know a honda civic or a toyota camry like there are there are cars out there that their reputation is to be reliable and again

it may not be the thing you want to drive for the rest of your life which is fine but going ahead and getting a car um as inexpensive as possible so again

i'm talking four five six thousand dollars and then keeping a thousand for your emergency fund and then throwing the rest at this debt so i really would concentrate on that and the great thing about four five six thousand dollar cars is they really don't go down in value very quickly so yeah by the time you guys are out of debt you know in in three more years you guys can upgrade to an awesome car and that time is gonna fly so quick so um i would put as much money towards the student loan shawn as possible and sorry i'll add this to sean you know you and your wife yo hello you guys have been married what just i mean really recent you said oh yeah october yeah they're just coming october okay so honestly this is kind of a fun fun may not be the right word george i love the word fun so everything feels fun to me this could be a really unifying goal for you and your new wife to to experience something together as a newlywed couple and any couples but especially when you're newlyweds to have something that you guys are sacrificing and working towards together um there's something really unifying about that that you get to experience early on in marriage so i would almost look at it like that but hey you know it sucks that we have all this student loan debt but man if we attack this together there is this um this this bridge between you two that gets built in such a quicker way when you have a unified goal yeah and sean i'll tell you i drive a 2009 honda civic with body damage so it's exactly what rachel's saying and i paid six thousand dollars for it back in 2017.

still drives perfectly today and yeah we have the money to get a new car but i'm like that's fine and i kind of like that it has some body damage you get a little ding on it you don't care so let this be a memory that you guys look back on and let it fuel you to go gosh i hate this car i wish we had a nicer car

let's pay off this debt asap so that we can get that nicer car but what happens is people get a nicer car and they get comfortable with their student loans sitting here like a pet and they never pay them off and so i want you to get intense what was that we're hardcore on it we decided we had already planned on it it's already i had map out like

the next six months to take care of it we just uh it's just something came up and i'm like i don't know if we should you know totally no i hear you're gonna pay off the student loan in six months yeah that's awesome oh that's well hopefully that's the idea what's your what's your household income um together we do like 165 so oh yeah

this thing is definitely gone in six months or less and guess what you can then sell that car for probably about what you paid if the market is what it is and you can upgrade uh before the year is over before 2022 ends

awesome uh thank you very much absolutely thanks so much for the call cars are so interesting because there's like this level of like a standard of living a level of luxury this thing that cars have become it represents something like you know dave's opener of the show is this you know the bmw is now the status symbol of choice and it is i'm like and what i don't

i just laugh at myself sometimes because i can be that i want a tesla that's my i'm not a car person but whenever i see a tesla i'm like man i want a tesla's so bad and but like a car gets you from point a to point b yeah see what i'm saying like like if you go to like you zoom out utility if you just look at

the utility of it and then like you said too the nicer the car a little bit more the more stressed you are the more you're thinking oh gosh i got to keep it clean if something happens right it becomes this this uh it fills your emotional tank where it's like oh it doesn't need to right because it's just stuff so there's cars are just f they're fascinating

and there's a big spectrum especially with guys i mean guys calling into the show yeah it's always they want the nice car and they want to impress the buddies and they got to have this the premium features yeah so i would be curious we could like take a poll like instagram on the radio but we can't but i'm like okay for like the the longing for a new car especially for a guy is

it do you think george more of the perception of what it brings or is it that you just like nice things and you like to get in to a car and it smells good it's all new technology like it's fun i wonder what percentage it is for most people out there i think that's a bit of both but i think if you're an i am legend scenario

and you're the only person in the world left i don't think you're that worried about what other people think about your truck so true i think part of it is you want to go with your buddies and go hey dude check out check out these rooms i just got if i just got george if i ever get a tesla i'm going to i'm going to say george i'm taking off look at my tesla

i will be one of those people that tells you i love it well hey folks it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five i'm george campbell that's rachel cruz we'll be back with you real soon [Music]

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this is the ramsay show i'm george campbell host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by rachel cruz host of the rachel cruz show all of those you can find on the ramsey network well i've got a question for you is it too soon to start talking about christmas i know thanksgiving's still a couple weeks away but here's the deal me and the rest of

the ramsey team are already in a christmas frame of mind and it's not just the hallmark movies rachel a big reason for that is that we're already giving away cash as part of our christmas cash giveaway we love being generous around here especially with dave's money one of my it's my spiritual gift of mine to give away dave's money so here we are every year we celebrate christmas with our ramsay show listeners with our ramsay christmas cash giveaway it's become a tradition of ours

and this year we're giving away 500 bucks every single week and a grand prize of 5 thousand dollars you can enter every day to increase your chances of winning just go to ramseysolutions.com giveaway to enter and you can go ahead and get in on the giving too we've got all kinds of life-changing gifts for your family and friends and our famous 10 sale that means you can shop over 40 of our best-selling books

and envelopes for just 10 bucks or less get books like the total money makeover dave's number one bestseller and rachel's newest book know yourself and all your money both on sale for just 10 bucks that's a good deal this year forget the one-time use presents and gift a lifetime of hope shop the 10 sale at ramsaysolutions.com

mike joins us in new york city mike welcome to the ramsay show hey guys thanks for taking my call much appreciated um i have a two-part question the first part deals with my pension i am forced by my employer to

put in six percent of my total earnings towards the pension and i was curious as to how you guys and dave think about that six percent as it contributes to the entire 15 percent that you recommend for retirement savings and the second part of my question deals with my current uh tda my tax renewal it's a 403 b and currently i'm putting in uh nine percent uh of my gross and it's a fixed

guaranteed return of seven percent that's what i'm guaranteed i guess it was negotiated through the state legislator that i'm guaranteed to do seven percent i was told that this is very rare and it's a great deal but i've also been told by you guys that opening up a roth ira is a really good choice so i'm debating about moving my

finances from my 403 b into a roth ira maxing that out six grand five grand or six grand a year i forgot what the max contribution is and then whatever i have left over putting that leftover towards the 403b annuity uh with a guaranteed fixed seven percent i just want to know what you guys think about that second question as well okay cool so let's start with the first question the mandatory six percent contribution is that coming from your own salary this is not something that the employer is contributing on their part yeah it's from my own salary comes right on my paycheck i have no choice in the matter so they're just forcing your first six percent out of the 15 essentially exactly because i'm part of the uh you know new york city and part of the state the pension contribution is is mandatory okay yeah i mean i don't see anything wrong with counting that as part of your 15 since it's coming out of your paycheck yes yeah so yep that'll be that will be included in the 15.

is left of that it's looking like you said i got the 403b what percentage are you putting in the b so i'm putting in nine percent so if i do the six percent for the pen and then another nine yeah i mean right yes well my knee-jerk reaction alway i just love the roth ira i mean it is it is tried and true and it grows tax-free and usually you can get more i mean another

they're guaranteeing seven percent but with the roth my husband i even just looked at our stuff the rate of return yeah it's just you can get more even just in the market and so that's where i tend to lean um mike to go ahead like you said that your knee jerk reaction i i would i would do that i would do as much as i can in that roth ira but then whatever is left after you do that that's six thousand five six thousand dollars when you max out that roth if there is anything left i think you i think you just walked us through it i'm like that's exactly right you i would put the rest in that 403 b yeah i guess i'm calling just to confirm i'm doing the steps correctly and i think i am i guess my only concern was what is some you know if you look at the s p 500 over the last 30 years i think it's what an average rate of return of around eight eight and a half which is obviously higher than seven percent the only great thing about the 10 is that it's guaranteed it's set by the state legislator i have literally zero risk of loss all at all so that's why it's like oh that's pretty unique and unheard of so that's why i was questioning what percentage should i only put one or two percent towards that uh fixed rate of return then dump the rest into the roth ira and you guys are saying yes it is in fact worth it yeah i think it is because i think you're gonna get i think you're gonna average out more than seven percent over this how old are you mike i'm 37.

don't know another piece of this rachel is the control factor in the roth ira you're going to have control of what funds are invested i don't know mike how much control you have over the options in this 403 b piece if they're guaranteeing that seven percent i don't know how they're guaranteeing that or if they have full control what's the situation there these so great questions from what

i understand the the fixed guarantee return 10 that was negotiated through my union and collective bargaining through the state legislature so seven percent is locked in place now that is an option for me in addition to that i also have options of playing around with the market doing uh equity diversity funds i can i can uh sort of you know spread my uh contributions however i want

but currently i'm putting it all in the bucket of fixed return um does that make sense got it yeah yeah yeah and what i would do too is you can bounce this off of one of our smartvestor pros in your area financial advisor who can just go hey this is what's going to make the most sense for your age for where what your situation is and your goals

they can walk through all the nitty-gritty the nerdy numbers with you to help you make that decision but if i'm you i'm going to the roth ira whatever's left over it's not a bad plan to uh to throw some money in that as well especially with the guaranteed um rate of return there so thanks for the question appreciate that matt joins us next in houston texas matt welcome to

the ramsay show thank you for having me guys how are y'all doing today doing great how can we help awesome so my wife and i are new uh

to the baby steps we're currently on baby step two um trying to pay off some of our debts and um before we got on board with the

whole program i had invested during the pandemic when the market crashed i invested into some stocks which i'm learning now that it's not the best option to have so what we're trying to figure out is if

it would make sense to go ahead and pull out our current investments um obviously take out what what would be tax for capital gains and put that aside for the end of the year but then utilize the the other funds to pay off some of our debt i'm just wondering if that's a good idea or what you guys would suggest we do with that yeah i like

this plan so far how much debt do you have so we currently have about five thousand dollars in debt fifty of that being student loans uh the other two are car loans okay and what uh what's how much is in this investment uh total and the investment is around twenty one thousand okay so we're not going to knock out the debt completely even by cashing these hours

but it'll help kick-start this process for you

right right yeah yeah that's the thought process at least to at least get that going i mean we also have around 11 000 in savings and that's kind

of like that's our limit right now as my wife just gets a little weary when the bank drops a little bit um especially with my

with my job i'm prone to injuries because i teach tennis and so like right now i'm doing some injury pains and a hernia and so that extra money she she doesn't want to go below that just in case something happens but um again you know any guidance on on that situation would be would be helpful for us as well yeah well your first um question matt i

would anything that is not retirement i would cash out and throw at the debt because you're going to be able to go and invest

double twice three times as more when you have no payments like when you guys are completely debt-free and you have an emergency fund suddenly you're gonna feel your income be able to be like oh my gosh this is amazing and then you can you guys have time to go and invest more into things like retirement and that security gland is flaring up over here but if i'm

you guys i'm going down to that 1 000 that's gonna give you 31 total throw at the debt and the sooner you get rid of this debt that's when you have true security true financial peace so i think you guys have the hard conversation about using this money in savings to kick start this debt and really start to paint the picture of what you want that future to look like rooting for

you guys this is the ramsay show [Music]

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i'm george campbell next to me is rachel cruz and this is the ramsay show it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five let's have a conversation about your life and your money what's on your mind let us know let's have a little fun friday conversation about it agnes decided to join us in new york city agnes welcome to the ramsay show hi

thanks so much for taking my call absolutely my question is my question is that my husband and i are finishing baby step three so we're getting ready for investing and we're starting to think about it yay but we don't know anything about investing at least not much and i was wondering if um if a smart investor probe would be helpful in um

you know when we start to invest in a company 401k or that's something that you know you know being that it's not there we're not investing with the smart investor pro would they still help with that yeah absolutely yeah i in fact have a smart vester pro and i show them what's going on in my company ramsey 401k and every year i'll just go hey does this still make sense to

you all the you know allocated across these funds and it's it takes the pressure off of me to go oh okay good i'm doing the right thing i shouldn't be doing anything differently so absolutely they have a heart of a teacher and they'll educate you from start to finish that's why they're there they're not there to sell you on products they're there to help you understand where you're putting your money yeah

and hopefully you know for you guys um you you'll have more to invest than just the 401k because you'll take that match but then maybe you'll open up a roth ira like we talked about in the last segment there there are other retirement options out there that they can even help show you and and i'll say this you know i remember when i had my husband and

i we got married uh we 12 years ago which is so crazy and after we got married we sat down with the smartmaster pro that was here in nashville and and even

being dave ramsey's daughter let me just say i had so many questions i didn't quite even understand some of it and i kind of felt stupid at first asking some of the questions i was like these are probably dumb questions that are like super elementary and i should know this but the more i asked and the more he started explaining i was like okay there's just that there's a level of knowledge you're gonna want

when you're putting your money into something so don't be afraid to ask questions honestly you may you may you may feel stupid or like i should know this i'm an adult you know i pay taxes like i feel like i should know these things uh and you me and you don't i mean or you may not like i in things like insurance i laughed about taxes but seriously taxes investing it's

these niche parts of our financial picture that people that work in these industries hopefully the ones that you know or the ones that we recommend are kind people they're going to help you and they're there to teach you like george said and these people eat and breathe this stuff they do it day in and day out they meet with all types of people all income level i mean

they see it all so i don't want you to feel inadequate at all when you guys go sit down for the first time ask as many questions i want you to be a be able to understand what you're putting your money into so when you leave that office that you could explain it to someone else right like that you know it so well um so absolutely i would have a financial advisor in my corner

and do my first degree first i understand and do we first go to the the other financial advisor or do we first try to open it up with the company the 401k well it'll probably be through it'll be through your company but they're going to be able to to guide you in it like what george is saying and then other things that you may decide to put your money in they're going to be able to help

you in that so you can open up the 401k and then they can help you select what funds inside of that 401k you're putting your money into and so that's what's going to help obviously we have a lot of resources at ramseysolutions.com to help teach you how what the ramsey way is across four different types of growth stock mutual funds and we've got a new book coming out from dave baby steps millionaires where

he really unpacks his own investing strategy and i love that dave does exactly what he tells other people to do he's not out here jumping on single stocks and telling everyone else to go into mutual funds so we really try to practice what we preach around here and those smartvestor pros they're aligned with the ramsey principles and they're going to treat you right so absolutely reach out

and just get some information and get some guidance from them even if it's for your company 401k and maybe down the line like rachel said you work with them on another project like we did that when we were saving up for our down payment oh yeah we invested for the long term and we worked with our smart mr pro absolutely agnes way to go baby step four here

we come feels good yeah that's awesome thanks for the call josh joins us next in seattle washington josh welcome to the ramsay show

hi thanks for taking my call george and rachel yeah i'm a small business owner out here and we've built this business over 10 years and done fine but the last couple years we've just gone gangbusters made more money than we've ever made and uh we've through that my wife and i have accumulated a good stockpile of cash just in regular savings accounts and we're looking to build a house in

the next couple of years so for now i've just left that in savings accounts it's been piling up and we're getting a half a percent of interest which is the very highest rate we can find around my question is should i be doing something else that money just feels wrong especially with all the talk of inflation the reality of inflation i'm not worried about hyperinflation but there's a reality right now especially in

the building cost world or should we just sit on that uh you know depending on when we're going to build the house probably starting as soon as next spring and just sit on it and wait um what you think we should do yeah it's a great question i'm just curious josh what do you guys do for a living just what's what's going crazy what kind of business sure yeah we're in

the gun and ammo business awesome there you go that has gone crazy very cool um yeah so i i'll say if you guys know you're gonna be building in the next three years or less four years or less i would just keep it where it is josh which i know hurts my husband and i we did the same thing we had saved and it we we had saved um for longer than even that

and kept it just in like a money market and we look back and winston was like i guess that was the right decision you know we still talk about it because it was over a longer period of time um but especially if you go if especially if it's three years or less our rule of thumb at ramsay's really five years or less um

and so in this case anywhere from three to five years if you know you're gonna be building in that time i would just keep it where it is even though i get it like you're not making a ton back i know but um it's kind of the safest route it's just the money that you have because if something dips if something happens and you guys want to go

and build and you don't have the time to let it regain where it was then that kind of sucks yeah when you have that tight time horizon of we want to build at this date that's where i start to get real nervous about putting it in the market for a short period of time josh how much money is this

uh in our personal savings accounts about 500 550 000 and then we're a little heavy on the business right now another 250 thousand retained earnings in the business which is a lot more than we normally keep there so are you guys are you guys investing though john like or josh for um like retirement and all of that like are you are you doing other stuff are you just really focusing on yeah we've been doing 15 of our of our take-home pay at raises

a good point i guess we haven't we just continued to do that off our base salary that we pay ourselves i've not done that out of this excess so perhaps that is a portion of it that we should take and then set aside for long-term investing this excess we've just piled up you know in in cash and along the way paid another 400 000 for a piece of land that we'll build on

so that's you know debt free and yeah ready to build but yeah that's all i was gonna say is that you can should we use that no i would use what you have to to do is put as much away to the house as possible when you guys start building for sure should we take 15 of that and invest it is that considered part of our 15 part of our income on which

we should be doing investing no i wouldn't if you guys already are investing on just the income you said you're doing it on the take-home pay though right the investing well we're doing it on our on our base salary so we've paid ourselves for years uh we take 15 of that you know out of our regular you know 130 000 bucks a year or whatever and and invest on that out of all

this excess we've done zero investing no i think that's fine uh because again you're you're saving this money for the house to build so that's what this is a lot of different goal here how much uh house are we talking ideally for you guys uh pro probably the bill probably cost somewhere within eight nine hundred thousand okay i mean i you guys are so close to being able to pay cash for something like

this you just kept saving up with this business crushing it like it is and you waited two years i mean that could be a really cool stretch goal for you guys yeah you know and i think if we sell our current house that we're in it'll definitely be able to cash flow and that's another question in the back of our mind is do we keep that as a rental or do

we sell the current place and and you know just cash flow the whole build so yeah if you're able to cash for the whole build i would keep it it's pretty bad for a rental yeah i would if you got a paid for property and yeah i mean that's that's pretty cool man you guys have done right now congrats josh i love hearing stories like that right awesome warms my heart

i see people go yeah we got like 800 000 in cash and we're crushing it i mean this is this is what we like to hear so thank you so much for the call of josh way to go this is the ramsay show

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you're listening to the ramsay show i'm george campbell joined by rachel cruz today and it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five call us up we'll talk about your life and your money michael joins us in phoenix michael welcome to the ramsay show

yes hi george rachel thank you for taking my call i hope you guys are better than you deserve we are for sure how are you doing well pretty good pretty good um so a couple questions well one major uh

a little bit of background just became homeless back in september um gives you some unforeseen circumstances sorry um but i'm a single dad two kids um trying

to uh uh build back better if you will and i have a great job but don't know where to don't know where to start really i got my emergency fund in place got into a cheaper car got into a cheaper apartment and just really trying to take control of my finances so my finances aren't taking control of me anymore yeah well it sounds like you're you're doing a lot better than

you were not long ago so you're in an apartment now you've got somewhere safe to stay and the kids are safe yep absolutely and you've got the job what's your income uh don't know the uh annual but at 26 an hour i'm a drunk driver truck driving 26 an hour that's great and uh are is child care a part of the equation here they're negative okay good good

and you have debt uh i don't know how you would label consumer debt but creditor debt

okay how much debt is owed currently

uh student loans car

a couple of hospital bills right around 30. 30 000.

okay and you've got an emergency fund in place how much is in there uh about 1200 1200 bucks so you're right you've got that baby step one going that starter emergency fund and you have a reliable car and you've got a place to stay and you can afford the the rent there correct okay well you're honestly i'm i'm impressed it sounds like you've been through a whole lot in the past i don't know a few months how recent is all of this

uh september wow man you are resilient yeah michael you've done you've done an amazing job do you know that right well it's my kids i learn from my kids i

work for my kids i love my kids yeah

well it's a good why in there because what you've been through is i mean it's hard it's really hard and especially if you're the sole provider of that i know the weight that that feels and that responsibility that you feel and i feel like the thing that

sucks about money is that you know your past decisions they do follow you you know you're having to face these things that you're like man i hate it but um but you you have not let it completely just overtake you or define you i mean you really have i hear it in your voice of i'm gonna i'm gonna do something different because what i did didn't work

and so i'm willing to change and do the hard work to dig myself out of this and i just think that's like it's just really impressive and really brave to make big changes like this in your life michael so i just i want to encourage you in that um and that this that this debt it is um

is it all in collections because you were talking about creditors incorrect yeah it's all online questions okay well one positive note in some of that maybe not as much the student loans but the other stuff there are chances that you can negotiate with them when it gets to this point um and and once you get some money um

let's just use like one of them for an example what how much would you say is on the car for instance uh 16 16 000 okay so you know working to

to get some cash and sometimes they will settle with you um and to say hey it's been x amount of time and here's what i have what's the best thing you can do um for me what's the best deal you know you can give me i mean there's always that strategy as well that um is a possibility not that it's all in collections but um if that doesn't work

then obviously kind of just chipping away at this and it'll be it'll be a marathon you know it's not gonna happen happen overnight like we say around here but uh getting those quick wins of paying off that smallest one is going to be um it's going to be exciting what is your smallest step michael uh about a thousand okay okay awesome

well you got 1200 in the bank so you know you can do it you know you can work and save that um so that'll feel that'll feel real good when you when you hit that first one out yeah so if you're following the baby steps we talk about the four walls and it sounds like you've got those covered that's food utilities shelter transportation once we have that covered you can move on to that starter emergency fund which you have and then next up we're going to list those debts from smallest to largest depending on what's going on with the creditors and like rachel said the older the debt has been in collections the better chance you have of settling and so if i'm you right now i'm gonna work my tail off maybe that means taking a second job doing anything to increase income and cut down expenses to create that margin so that we can save up you know eight thousand dollars and go to that car loan and say hey i've got eight are you willing to take that today and be done with this and a lot of the times they'll say we'd rather have some of the money than none of it yeah and they'll take that and that can be knocked out in the medical bills especially a lot of those can be negotiated down especially with hardship and income so do your research and be proactive communicating with the creditors uh you know call them once a week give them updates i want you to bother them more than they bother you uh they're gonna want you off their back instead and so you've done an incredible job um obviously i want this debt out of your life as soon as possible so that you can really start to create that new financial future for you and your kids how old are the kids 14 and 12.

and are they are they in school what's their situation yeah school full-time okay awesome that's good that frees you up to be able to to work are you back home every night with this trucking gig oh yeah yeah i'm local okay that's great

news well you know the good news is the trucking industry is in high demand and so you might even look into what other jobs are out there can i increase this income ca is there overtime i know that can be difficult in the trucking industry with um regulation but just doing whatever you can for the next you know maybe it's two years to knock out this debt especially

if you can settle some of it it could be shorter than that and once you're through with that you get that fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then you can rest easy at night and start investing for your future how old are you 36 36 dude you got your whole life ahead of you you've got a whole new life to start a new legacy to build with

these kids and uh i mean you know what to do and i i think you're going to do it you're a resilient guy nothing's going to stop you at this point from where you were to where you are today and where you're going to be that's right and my kids have a full life ahead of them and i want theirs to be better than me and it will michael

i mean honestly financially yep i mean you're you're literally making doing the steps right now to what we say around here all the time is changing your family tree and that's exactly exactly what you've been doing do you feel more hopeful today than than even three weeks ago like as you start really making progress and you save and and you're feeling kind of the traction of this working how how does

i was able to pay off a creditor last week and it felt amazing amazing it's

discouraging when i can't do it every week but it you know it gives me hope yeah and that's awesome well you keep taking one day at a time keep busting your butt for this family clearly that's your why so let that y fuel you along this journey and start to dream of what that future looks like and what it looks like to maybe being a home one day or be doing

the job you really want to do and the kids going to college and just start to dream about that future and that's going to keep you going every day that's what you need right now is that daily motivation listen to this show for motivation get a community around you if you don't have any right now some friends who can cheer you on along the way some family that's really going to help

you get through this journey no thank you absolutely michael thank you so much for the call we are cheering you on my friend yes what a good dad i know i'm just impressed by this guy and it sounds hard like the road he just explained i'm like oh that i mean it's hard yeah and yet

choosing to say okay i'm i'm gonna do this i'm gonna i'm gonna figure this out get another job find an apartment i mean all of it that's that's so courageous to me because there's a lot of you know and i get it but there's some it's just like i don't even know what to do they're stuck and they can't move it's almost like they're paralyzed by fear

but he didn't really know really digging in and said okay i'm going to do something different and i'm going to change what i've been doing which is uncomfortable in the first place let alone his life situation so i think it's amazing call us up or come visit us to do your debt-free screening that's right from homeless to debt-free that's a cool story that's inspiring man absolutely fun hour rachel thank

you so much big thanks to james childs our producer kelly daniels our phone screener and you america we appreciate you listening in we'll be back with you before you know it until then spend wisely save intentionally and give generously this is the rambly show

[Music] hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free screen live on the show make sure you visit thermzyshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm ramsay personality george campbell join this hour by rachel cruz

national number one best-selling author host of the rachel cruz show you name it she's it she's got it all folks and i'm excited to be co-hosting with her today taking your questions about life and money it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five if you're a gen z or millennial that's a phone number and if you pick up your phone there's a phone app

you can actually dial those numbers and it connects you with a real person don't throw the millennials i'm a millennial i'm the same way now we can we can throw it here's the thing rachel i'm the first one to not want to make a phone call i'd much rather text yes i know but to make the show interesting we have to hear you and so i just want to encourage people out

there who may not make a lot of phone calls to make it the day they do so you know speaking of phone calls can i tell you something i think we're going to do george this is so off topic we just need to get to the calls speaking of phones we're going back to a landline really at the crew's household we're going to get a landline tell me

the reasoning behind this for our girls they love talking on the phone but they always take our phones and i'm like wouldn't it be great for them and like obviously grandparents would just have their number but that they could call like my parents or winston's parents it's a real actual call and it's a phone and they and they got or they or how sweet would it be for someone to call

the landline and the and the girls feels like we're living in mr rogers neighborhood i love this isn't that great doesn't it just kind of take you back to just so we bought on amazon like like felt like actual phones very impressive anyways i thought winston was like a doomsday prepper and if the satellites go down i'm the conspiracy theorist you're here for that that's okay secret reason

i can't wait till the phone rings at home and um one of your girls answers and it's like would you like to re-extend your warranty for your whatever i know or your student loan is in deferment

like some spam i'm here for it though let me know how that goes okay so here's get it landline let's just go back to the day the good old days it's gonna it's gonna be vintage soon and cool just like the 90s clothing has been so did you ever have your own phone line 100 okay instead of the party line yeah where you could pick up yeah yeah not

the party line but you had like euro like we had a kids line growing up oh no no i wasn't that fancy and our um should i do our recording or so off topic right now james is about to shut are you ready james are you ready he's invested in this though go for it should we do this i'm sorry america i can't this is a treat okay

we did a wrap

please do this

this is rachel denise's line you know what to do leave a message get back to you wow there you go folks you didn't know you wanted to hear that but you got it and that is a friday treat you're welcome thank you so much for that rachel that is that was broadcast live on national radio yeah i want to remind you i know i mean did you have to like sing christmas songs on your recorder like no one made me yeah apparently it's a different time in

the ramsay household wow all right so behind the scenes for you folks terrible back to the back to the phones that matter tommy's on the line in phoenix arizona tommy i apologize and we're excited to talk to you how you doing hey no no worries i'm doing well thank you for taking my call guys did you expect to hear a rap from rachel cruz right before you talk to us

i didn't but to add to the conversation i'm actually a millennial so yeah tommy don't you want a landline back in your life doesn't that just feel better

i'd be down i used to talk to the operators all the time when i was younger my mom would be like tell me give me the phone tommy i love this guy well how can we help 69 i mean all of it that's great yeah yeah so my wife and i are somewhat newly married two and a half years in and um she's studying to actually become a doctor or a pa

so she's kind of in that waiting season right now so um i was just curious we're on baby step 3b and i was curious if i should just be throwing 100 of that right towards you know that fund for her schooling or if uh we should be investing uh through my company's uh retirement plan 401k plan a

little background we have about 75 000

in savings 20 of that being our six month emergency fund and so that leaves us with between 55 to 65 000 uh

towards school right now cool how much is school going to cost yeah so school depending upon if she wants to go the pa route or the doctor route in state uh it will be about 60 000 for uh for the three years uh for pa or a

160 000 for in-state doctorate program okay and that's 60 per year for three years no sir so it's not only the 35 per year it's awesome that's very reasonable yeah it is i think most of the time with doctors and pas they just think they're forced to take the loan route so they put in all of their spendings like housing food expenses and that's why they get

so uh this is just in-state tuition that's awesome well what's great about it too is she's gonna have to when will she have to make the decision for the 160 thousand dollar route when will that happen um probably within the next couple months right now because of coveting stuff she hasn't been been able to really get like any little to any shadowing hours and that's really uh pivotal for for um uh doctorate school

for medical school so um right now it's kind of looking like she might go the pa route because she has more experiences higher chances were getting uh uh approved essentially or accepted um but yeah that within the next couple months i'd say lord willing that's awesome well i mean on that route obviously you guys have the cash to and and you don't to pay at all up front obviously right you're gonna be paying as

she goes which is great which means you're gonna be able to still continue to save because you have this money set aside basically for her tuition and you'll still continue to be able to save and then um ideally you know if she goes the other route knowing that okay we're gonna have to save on the side uh and work harder and be more focused to continue to still cash flow her

if she chooses that 160 000 route um but

the 65 000 paid for route sounds

and here's the thing with pa if she goes the pa route she can always go the doctor route later correct uh that's kind of no not really you'd have to do everything over again all over

you'd have to go back to from what i understand you'd have to go back to medical school and then do the three four years of residency on top so it's not really uh it's they really try to differentiate the difference between pa and doctorate yeah and keep them separate so that way that there's the two distinct routes and so i guess for respecting doctors and the work

they put into it and things like that sure well so i would say on the money side though tommy if yes i would i would continue to invest um yeah for retirement if she goes the 65 000 out because you'll have it basically paid for it's there and you have your and you'll still have your your emergency funds uh in place so yeah that now if she goes

the other route then i would pause the investing and then just keep saving up cash and cash flow her through it but for her i would ask her too i mean that's a hundred thousand dollar difference i'm kind of just making these numbers seem like they're not that big of a difference that's a that's a big difference but and if the outcome yeah and if the outcome is

the same for her if she's getting what she wants out of her career out of both then it's the same i mean obviously i would i would pick the pa route just to be able to cash flow it and she could jump into it all of it uh but but if it's something that she's passionate about the the other routes then she can still do that you always have to pause a lot

and save a lot to make sure your cash flowing up yeah and the upside of the income from the doctor versus pa look into that and find out what the difference is and we want to make sure there's going to be a good roi on this regardless but cash flow it avoids student loan debt you guys are doing so great you're following the steps super proud of

you guys rockstar millennials look at that rachel they're out there you can find them this is the ramsay show

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so

still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry it's

worth it

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i'm george campbell my co-host today is rachel cruz this is the ramsay show if you aren't strapped with student loan payments odds are you know someone who is millions of people are putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're stuck or even worse they're waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness what a joke our team produced a brand new documentary called borrowed future

and it is out now it uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you you'll see dave ramsey weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program along with featured interviews from industry insiders and thought leaders like seth godin seth fraughtman and dr john deloney we're coming at this hard folks we're taking big swings at

the student loan problem with the goal to arm parents and students across the country with the truth here's the truth you do not have to take out loans to get a college education you can graduate debt-free and avoid the predatory student loan industry borrowed future is available to watch now you can find it on apple tv amazon prime video google play or just go to borrowed future dot com rachel

i love that call we took before the break about student loans and his wife's going to go to med school debt-free i know isn't that great you don't hear that very often and it's because they had a plan and they they had a wise choice when it came to what college she's going in state and that whole program 60 grand for pa yes and

she's doing it and i and he's exactly right that you know when you just even entertain the idea of debt and you think okay well i mean we gotta it's got we have to have debt and you and you go down that mindset that trail then you're not nickel and diming everything you're you're adding stuff here and there and oh here here here do what i'm saying like you don't feel the urgency to get it as low as possible and that's on anything even a car right if you think oh i'm gonna have to get a car law and you're like oh yeah i'll do that upgrade here yeah it's 40 versus 50.

yeah you don't feel it um but when you pay cash that's one of the that's one of the beauties about it is that you end up spending less but also it's because you're working so hard to get the price down because you're like no this is my hard-earned money and you feel it and i wonder if there's data on this but people who pay cash for school

i wonder if they're more invested if they're studying like that if they're trying to ace the test because you paid good money for that or the graduation rates higher yeah yeah i wonder i i would guess that it's higher i'm sure there's that cash and i bet there's stuff out there for sure but i'm proud of them i'm proud of people going you know what their student loans aren't

the only path and we're going to forge our own path over here and we're going to do it with cash and uh they're going to do it and here's what's like when i'm sitting the seat especially and i'm talking to people like man it can be frustrating because we know it's possible we know it's possible choosing a school you can afford even going to a community college scholarships

and grants work like all of these this formula is it easy no it's not easy but it is possible and then when we you know talk to people that do have debt their largest amount of debt always is the student loan and it's like oh man i did a instagram post of some shoes that

i bought that it was like my buyer's remorse is what i say like my one of my spending regrets in life um and they and some people and so i asked people what's your biggest spending regret and so many it was student loans because it's like years later it's a degree they're not using um or they could have gone to a different school and gotten it half

you know the price of what they pay anyways i just thought that was fascinating i wasn't thinking when i thought spending time with you think about it purchase you don't think about student loans yeah yeah i was expecting like a thing and so but hearing so many student loan answers in there of the regret and i'm like yeah i mean it is it's a hard one so

the documentary bard feature it's it's amazing yeah go watch it if you haven't it's 88 minutes it's a great weekend watch and if you've got kids oh my goodness it's a great thing to watch with them because it sparks conversations what i found after talking with so many teens is that parents aren't having the conversations and so they're wandering into college when they're 17 18 going my parents never really talked about

it and they just said we'll figure it out next thing you know they co-signed loans or took out the parent plus loans or let the students go off and take out 200 grand on their own and it all comes down to communication expectations where are we at financially how much can we contribute and a lot of it stems from shame from the parents too yeah sure we can't pay for college

so we don't even want to talk about it right right but that's what i even love about this message of getting under like the underbelly of this whole industry because like you're saying these are 18 year olds making decisions so there is there's a part of me that i mean and that ramsay i'm like we want to fight for those 18 year olds it's not fair for them to walk in to an office

and they have no clue what they're doing because no adult has talked them through it and someone says sign and they sign because they don't really know i mean they're 18 years old like isn't it that your frontal uh like your brain cortex isn't even fully developed like 25 or something and i'm like oh you know they're making these decisions that follow them for the rest of their life

so parents i mean george i think that's great i think it's a great encouragement for parents to dig in and have the conversation yes talk about it go check it out borrowedfuture.com open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five alexandra joins us from chicago illinois alexandra welcome to the ramsay show hi george hi hi rachel how are you doing great how can

we help um i'm 32 years old i'm in baby step

number two for the first time in my life i feel like i have you know some control um 2020 really kicked me into gear to

start in my debt i started with 124 now i'm at 81 000.

way to go congratulations thank you i went from making less than 20 thousand a year to now making over 50.

great um but i'm having a little bit of guilt about a little bit quite a bit actually like this morning i'm crying about it um i'm having guilt with kevin um i have two brothers who live in

mexico and they are way under the poverty line and i feel that now i'm at a place where i can actually help them but everything that i'm doing in my budget and all the extra money that is going towards my my debt i feel like i should be helping them

i mean you have you have a beautiful heart i mean i can just hear over the phone your um your longing and compassion for brothers that you love and knowing that how their their their living conditions and living below the poverty line it's it's it hurts you right i can i can i can feel that um um i i have two thoughts around and george obviously i want to hear yours but my first is that we always encourage giving no matter even on baby step two we want you to be giving and really 10

is like our recommended percentage um because the element of giving it we want that even from the beginning because it makes it that much easier to continue to give as you start to build wealth so so that giving portion you can choose where to give that and so you know for uh people that are part of a local church for instance we say hey that can be your tithe

you can give that to your local church or if someone is not um have a spiritual walk it could be to a non-profit or something so alexandria i mean you could say hey this ten percent i'm gonna give to my brothers to help them right now um in this season i would not be mad at that it's not like you're enabling some bad behavior right i mean there's a they're just a totally different situation in mexico

and so um you could choose to do that and then still focus on your debt snowball because my my other point that i want you to hear is once you pay this off even though it's it's going to be a little bit of a journey for you still you you've you've knocked out for what forty thousand forty three thousand already which is amazing um and so you're going to be able to beat debt-free sooner than

you can even imagine and when you don't have those payments and you have that emergency fund you're going to be able to do so much more giving which is even more exciting and it's easier to give because you have the margin when you don't have the debt so i do want you to still be intense with it because because ultimately it gives you not just you freedom

but it gives you the ability to help others in that sense when you don't have the payments so um so if you want to be giving a little bit to them right now while you're out of debt of that giving portion of your budget i i i don't see anything wrong with that um because you you are helping

someone that's beautifully said and one thing i would add is you probably can't give them enough money to to get them out of the situation that's great and so i don't want you to feel like you have the burden to fix their life but what you can do is support them in figuring out what it looks like to get them back on their feet and that may not be monetary that might be finding them an opportunity um from where where

you sit in chicago and going hey let's find you a job where you're able to afford your bills and get out of this poverty situation and that may not mean the 50 to 100 bucks that you might be sending them every month but you've got a beautiful heart and we're cheering you on on your debt-free journey and definitely hopeful that your brothers can get out of this situation thank

you so much for that call sweet stuff rachel good stuff there this

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you're listening to the ramsay show i'm george campbell ramsey personality and host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by rachel cruz host of the rachel cruz show rachel in the first hour we took a call from a gentleman wondering if he should buy a car how much car he should be buying uh with some other goals he had going on and you decided to do a little poll on your instagram what was going on with that poll well

we were talking about you know how cars have become the status symbol right that's what dave always says in the opening of the show um and and how a car really is supposed to just get you from point a to point b but yet it's become this luxury item in our world that people love so i just asked the question i asked people to be honest i don't know

if they're very honest george that's a good start yeah yeah at least asking for honesty i did so i asked why do you want a nice car because of what other people think or you just like nice stuff and the winner which i guess i'm not shocked is i know i gotta get these up perfect okay was 93 like nice stuff okay seven percent

say because of what people think wow i i appreciate that the seven percent's honesty saying i'm just doing it for other people i just think it's more right it's gotta be i think the numbers or there was a third 66 people said because of what other people think 836 said wow uh because they like nice stuff again that was just in the last hour if there was an option c do you think most people would select that of a little bit about a little bit of both i like nice stuff i mean that would be i mean yeah i don't want to be ridiculed think about my tesla eighty percent is for me because i just genuinely 80 20.

that being your leader your leading motivator in life when it comes to money is terrible so that's like where it gets super unhealthy it'll set you up for failure yeah yeah and i always ask the question if nobody sees the purchase do you still want it and i've done that with my tesla dreaming and yeah i do like it like literally no one ever saw i want to sit and drive an electric car so

bad yeah it's fun what's your dream car nobody's even if nobody saw it like that you just genuinely were like oh that would be fun i'm going tesla too because i'm a giant nerd and i like the tech i just like the technology i don't need the revving engine like dave does dave's like i don't hear

that's not a car that's a computer listen if i never had to do an oil change again praise jesus god we just spent so car ah man why are we getting on the scene we had car repairs uh this month this month and the oil pan which i don't even know that's a thing had to be replaced and that's like what is supposed to be replacing cars that have like 200 000 miles now mine's up in like 90 000.

so i just had a quick question um i am about to which not careers but jobs

um i'm currently work as a correctional nurse and i make about 120 000 a year

and i'm going to go be a school nurse to have my kids full schedule and my salary is going to drop down to about 80 000 a year and my husband makes about 120 as well

and we just sold our car so we just got

rid of 33 000 and we have about 35 000 in credit card

debt and about 180 in our mortgage

so i just wanted to know i'm just having a hard time with the whole salary reduction and how much is enough for a

family that's a great question and you guys are in california and so i know this looks different for people in high cost of living areas but you don't get a pass on the math and the truth is it really doesn't matter i mean there's people who make forty thousand dollars who live very comfortably there's people who live in million dollar houses who feel like they don't have enough and so what's gonna make you feel like you have enough is when you have margin and right now you've got a pile of debt here in thirty five thousand dollars of credit card debt that's making you feel like you don't have enough and so can you live on 200 000 income which is what you'll go to in california comfortably yeah you can but not when you have a pile of debt breathing down your net emeraldo what's the 35 000.

and just like odds and ends that have piled up over the years yeah so over the years you've been paying on this debt for a long time probably about two years just kind of

the last year and a half we've just kind of been living life and um yeah buying stuff going on vacation and

now that i'm able to i finished my bsn so i was able to apply for a school nurse position and now that i'm actually going to take it i'm like whoa well i know i'm going to take a picture but now i'm like oh is this the right move right now brett yeah well me here's the deal you're still going to be making around 200 if you're making 80 he's making 120

you guys are still making an incredible income and so y'all's issue is gonna have to be hey i'm gonna have to set some boundaries and actually get serious about this because you guys have kind of just been floating around having fun going on vacation buying stuff and just not really thinking because you've had the money to cover your mistakes and suddenly when you don't have the money to cover your mistakes anymore

and you're down forty thousand dollars a year yeah it's gonna you're gonna feel it exactly what you're calling right you're feeling that intensity and and as well that's the intensity that you're going to have to clean this up i mean people they do it all the time and and if i were you guys i mean your life is going to look drastically different for the next nine months of your life like

i would buckle down and do nothing i would i would sell some stuff you guys bought on those credit cards that you're not using anymore i would not go out to eat i would not go on vacation i would do nothing and i would get rid of this because if you can take this intensity and actually get serious about it this 35 000 will go away you guys have

the income to be able to do it you're going to be able to really knock this out even if you go and take the nursing job which is not mad if you do that i think that if that's what you're wanting to do that's great because you guys still are going to have a great income to pay this off but you got to get serious about it

and you guys have not been serious about this and man when you pay this off like george said it's going to put you in a different spot it is going to it is going to bring the freedom that you're wanting right now to be able to switch jobs and not feel distressed

okay yeah we sold our cards on monday

which that took off 33 000 and we have two other cards that are paid for so we're good with that and my husband's like i'm so proud of you you actually gave up a nice luxury car to drive your paid off car i was like well i want to do this i want to be able to be home and spend more time with the kids and you know my salary eventually will go up to a hundred thousand in about three years each year i'll get a pay raise

and of course he will as well so yeah i guess it's just a drop down right now that i'm like oh we're gonna get to get adjusted a little bit and well here's the thing esmerelda you called asking how much money do you need to live comfortably and right now i don't want you to be comfortable i want you to be uncomfortable for a short season so that

you can live your best life later on completely debt free because clearly this comfortable living doing whatever you guys wanted to do it's not a great life because you're sitting here with a little bit of anxiety about is money enough and what about these bills that we're paying and maybe some buyers remorse some regret some shame and i don't want any of that in your life and

you guys have a fantastic income like rachel said buckle down get rid of this thing in six months and uh clean up get an emergency fund in place do you guys have any savings right now we do we have about um like 20 000 or so

okay well if you're following the baby steps throw it at the debt you've got 1 000 starter and 19 is gonna get thrown on that 35 of credit card debt and all of a sudden you're gonna go oh my gosh we can see the light at the end of the tunnel i would write a big check tonight esmeralda i really would because i i y'all need a shock

you need like george said you kind of just been floating around like you you need something to kind of shock the system and man when you do that and you soccer and you said okay we're gonna just throw this get rid of all this other debt pay down the credit card it's gonna make you get into gear to pay off the rest because you're gonna want that emergency fund back

because you want to get comfortable again which i don't blame you uh but you need a little you need a little shock to the system yeah i'm here for it you guys got it you guys got it esmerell you could do this i'm not worried about it but you're gonna have to get some self-discipline in place and get uncomfortable so that you can be comfortable later on that's true financial peace

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i'm george campbell joined today by rachel cruz you are listening to the ramsay show give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll talk about your life and your money pat joins us in sioux falls pat welcome to the ramsay show hello yeah hey i just started a little business in llc and i went to the bank to get a an account business account going

and they recommended a credit card that they did yeah they did and uh you know back in my mind i knew what they would say but um i'm calling to see if i was right about what they would say no credit cards it doesn't matter if it's business or personal or nothing that that that sounds about right to me uh did you end up doing it i did

but oh boy um but i can cancel it so i haven't even got it in the mail yet like i said i was going i was wavering and i called my wife and she said yeah i get it you know and then and i still went back and forth and then i said well i tried to call you guys like yesterday too but hey hey don't put

this on us pat all right i got voicemail you can sign up for the credit card pat i got voicemail so i decided to go into debt uh well pat tell me this what was your reasoning going you know what i'm just gonna go ahead and do that probably gave you some good some good excuses well i'll tell you i'll tell you what it was it was um my wife was thought

the 1.5 would be cash back would be ah cash back you talk to successful business owners and they're like man the 1.5 is what did it so i'm going to be a multiple you know a bunch of this it's just a little small business and i just you know it happened so fast you're filling out all these forms from this llc and everything else and you know

then this and that and so yeah i can get rid of it i just wanted to check with dave before i didn't whenever it comes to these decisions pat i like to go who benefits from this decision and in this case the bank benefits from this decision that's why they're pushing the credit card is because they're not going to make a whole bunch of money from you taking out a business debit card they're hoping

you rack up some some debt on this thing and pay a whole bunch of interest over the course of your life running this business so i'd like to win i appreciate you guys taking my call absolutely thanks pat thanks for cutting it up as soon as as soon as that card comes in cut it up and maybe go to a different bank uh just to just to stick

it to them and get a business debit card that's what bank will do the same thing george well go to a credit union i just don't want to do business with a bank that sold me a credit card that's all i'm saying that's what they all do though right well yeah i mean they're banks this is this is what they do they're out to make money that's what they're doing

but uh that's what we do here at ramsey right so we're a big company millions upon millions of dollars and we only use debit cards sure believe it or not yep yep even the real estate here is paid for we move at the speed of cash is what we say around here um and what it does though i mean from on a business perspective is it makes

you make different business decisions when you are using cash when you're using debt there's a level of oh we try to test it if it doesn't i don't know you know you're not as emotionally kind of freaked out but when it's your cash you're like i'm gonna make sure this thing that we're investing in is gonna give me some roi you just you have a deeper emotional investment

when it's your own money and then on the flip side on the consumer side with the points i mean this is when we hear all the time george so people have credit cards you know whether it's oh it's a just-in-case thing or i do it for the airline miles and the points and what i've you know one thing i want people to realize is that you know

when because people do pay off their credit cards every month right there are people out there they're paying off and they're quote unquote benefiting and they're they are getting the cash back all that but you understand you're getting all of these points because other majority of people the average american is carrying 16 000 credit card balance so people because they are mismanaging their money and the banks are making tons of money off that

you now quote unquote get to reap the benefits of a system that's screwing people and they're putting people in bad positions so i'm like i don't even want to play the game i don't even want the points because because you're you're not you're doing it dirty money a little bit is what it feels like because i'm like because there's some you know single mom out there is trying to make her bills

and she's using the credit card to help her in that because it's the only thing she knows and i get a i get a free 70 southwest fly i'm like no no i

will pay for my own southwest flight thank you like i don't there's a moral argument to be made that we really don't talk a bunch here ramsay solutions we stick to the financial part but there is a part where it's just it's a corrupt industry and it's hurting people and you have to decide do i want to be a part of an industry that does this to people

i don't want to play the game and yeah 1.5 is not going to change your life it's a few hundred bucks back and i tell i tell people give yourself some cash back that's what you can do when you live a debt-free life and you have the margin in your budget and if i want to go on vacation i don't have to hope that i have the points at

the end of the year we just budget for it and go on vacation that's right that's simple yes so we've got an episode all about this on my podcast the fine print and it's called the true cost of credit card rewards so if this is you and you're out there and you're going well what if i pay it off every month and what if and what if

and what if and you're wrong just go listen to the episode uh we talked to an ex capital one employee elena who really dished she spilled the tea all right on on the credit card industry 10 000 social experiments they run you're just a you're just a mouse in their maze wow when you get to the cheese you think but i'm winning i got cheese and then

you zoom out and you go no you're just a mouse in a lab being socially experimented on wow so go check out that episode uh you can go to fineprintpodcast.com or just search for the fine print wherever you listen to podcasts all right let's take a call here we've got lauren in las vegas nevada lauren welcome to the ramsay show

i'll get him next time thank you kelly for putting me through um real quick um my husband and i were on baby step six yay for the program congrats of you guys thank you um we just moved into our home here in vegas and we did it the ramsay way um we're just trying to decide um how much to save for home improvements versus paying down our mortgage

after everything we have about a surplus i mean on average from two to five thousand that you know i either put towards paying off the mortgage but then i thought maybe i should pause doing that and save for improvements i don't know well i i don't think it's in either or here i mean how urgent are these improvements are these nice to haves or is like the roof gonna collapse

no these are definitely nice to have um we plan to be in this house for i mean as much as you can plan right uh

ten years yeah at least you know we're in a neighborhood we picked this neighborhood for our kids we want to grow up and you know have our kids grow up with friends in the neighborhood so that's where we're at it's awesome uh how much is left on the mortgage um a good number um i mean uh yeah you can't shock us just throw it out there okay one million yeah okay we're still here

and you said you did at the ramsey way which makes me think you guys can afford you put 20 down or 10 10 to 20 down and the mortgage payments no more yep i i just sound funny to say out loud

what's your household income i'm curious yeah it's um i mean the 350 base and then add-ons yeah great it's awesome you guys are doing great way to go thank you yeah my husband works very hard and we're a good team so well don't be ashamed yeah so i think um so lauren with the money you guys are putting extra you said you're having you have two to five thousand

i guess a month so you're saying extra on average yeah yeah so yeah when i say that because some it's not we don't have overage and then other days or other months we have like 5k it's just the timing of things totally so well at this point here's what i would do and george you obviously i don't hear your thoughts but um you guys look at so

the mortgage you got about a million left and i would do i would do a 10-year plan that you're gonna be in this house for 10 years and say okay when do we want this mortgage paid off like when would it feel great and do some math to see okay what's realistic if we because again you're on baby step six so we say this is the time

you get to kind of take your foot off the gas enjoy life a little do some house improvements you can do some of this but i would still have a time frame a goal just for you and your husband to know hey we would love to have our house paid off in x amount of time and that could be in five years that could be in seven years

but kind of aggressive because we really want you to have that house paid off um but that feels good but for you to still have margin in your budget to live life because i still want you to say hey okay so that's our goal is to get it paid off here so then how much extra do we have per month to play with how much how many vacations

we want to take a year um you know do we do a one improvement on the house maybe one every year and we cash flow it so you you can still live your life lauren so it is going to be it's not an either or uh it is a both but it's a it's a decision yeah we don't want to be wasteful because i've got to tell

you i was what your dad called a princess before

i know you're you're not being wasteful at all you're doing great just just allocate to both and start saving up in a sinking fund and maybe you start paying off the house once those improvements are done hardcore waiting good job though laura you're doing great that puts this hour in the books this is the ransomware family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about

the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm george campbell host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by rachel cruz host of the rachel cruze show and best-selling author and we are excited to take your calls this hour about life

and money so give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five michaela kicks us off in kansas city missouri mikayla welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for taking my call we're glad to take it how can we help so i'm a small business owner

married we have two younger kiddos and

um just gosh with everything that's going on in washington um they officially passed the um whatever you want to call it the buildback whatever uh bill today and knowing the implications that that is going to have on me as a small business owner um especially in my industry um i'm just kind of curious we um are so close i guess you

could say to paying off our home and knowing that this bill fundamentally fiscally changes um the system of

finance in america i'm told my finite

mind um comprehends that it changes the

stock market as we know it and there's potential for it to crash and not come back and this is not like whatever conspiracy of it whatever this is just all the information that people throw at you right and so i'm i'm kind of wondering do i should we pull out what we have in the stock market to just finish paying off our home not knowing whether or not

you know the kgb is going to cut i mean the irs is going to come and you know then audit and close down all small businesses or let's do a quick exercise together we're going to take a deep breath we're going to do three in and three out hold for three seconds in yeah right and then out for three there we go okay it's not past the senate

we got our news source it is it is not past the senate okay okay did you hear that okay okay so it's not it has not passed yet i am a bill on capitol hill did you you know that you know listen rachel's all about some singing today so you might get some of that because i might be rapping about how laws are in place i mean jesus could come tomorrow

but i still i'm still going to pay my bills up until that moment and so i understand that you have valid fears especially as a small businessman it's just fair p.s i don't i don't want to invalidate i get it yes but on the side of the market's going to crash and i don't need to upheave my life i don't think we're going to be able to time

it if it happens so if i'm you i'm going to keep living my life here now i do want to know about your investments when you say pull out money out of the stock market what do you have invested currently

um well we kind of i feel like have a little bit of everything kind of everywhere so we've got um and i think it's if i understand right it's like 60 40 in um conservative

um like stocks and bonds versus like more aggressive are you invested in mutual funds or single stocks um some of both some of both um we do have um an ira

um a roth iras i am um you know

obviously self-employed my husband um does not have a um yeah i mean he just started his new job and so we don't have like a 401k there um we do have i have a small business

emergency fund that's separate just in like an ally account um and then we thought our other

emergency three to six months for our personal home so it's just kind of everywhere um how much do you have so let's separate retirement from non-retirement so we're not going to touch retirement let's just take that off the table we're not going to pull any money out of our retirement accounts how much money do you have outside of that in just a general brokerage account uh all of them together probably about

40 or so and then because i am a sole proprietor llc technically everything in my small business account is mine i could pull it out i have about 90 in there and how much do you have left on the mortgage about 80 okay it's the home's worth about i could we could sell it right now our neighborhood's pretty hot um we could sell it for about 340 probably right now

okay so we've got 80 left on the mortgage you have 40 000 just sitting out there in general mutual funds and stocks that are non-retirement correct right okay so that portion i would say yes let's pull that out not out of fear but just because the best use of that money right now is paying off this mortgage versus being in the stock market especially the ones that are in single stocks that are super volatile and risky okay so that cuts you down to 40.

enneagram ones also that also that thank you for being here you've encountered enneagram rachel i know you all right yes i see you michaela i see you um part of it so i was in business with a family member there was some trauma there um the business or the family member that i was in business with decided um after me finally getting it for myself and saying no more um didn't understand why

she wouldn't be paid for not working decided that she would just take all of our money out of the account close the account i had no idea um and it then like then it took like three years to sort of rebuild because i knew i wasn't going anywhere i loved what i did um i knew that's where i was supposed to be um so a lot of yeah a lot

i guess trauma there and so i just i this sounds horrible but like i hoard it there i think because sure out of the fear yeah but what if that happened yes 100 percent yeah it doesn't get it it's not right

i have my i have my emergency fund uh

for my business but i don't know i mean i'm self-employed you never know especially with taxes being raised like you never know really um in an industry

like i'm in you never really know exactly how much you're going to owe in taxes because your profit fluctuates so much like 2020

we operated at 11 that we operated at in 2019 because i'm

in the wedding industry so do you have a tax professional that you work with right now oh yeah oh yeah okay well work with them and get facts on paper because as john doloni says facts are your friends and let's not live in just fear and paranoia and i understand that you have legitimate fears but what i want you to do is just turn off the news slow down your life

and do the next right thing that you need to do every day go work in your business and don't live by the headlines because truthfully they're overblown and it's never as crazy as they say it is on both sides i'm not this is not a political party i do love conspiracies but rachel does kayla so i can jump on the train and go there that's ramsay after dark it's where rachel shares her conspiracy theories

but uh michaela i really appreciate the call and uh way to go in your business and just take a deep breath well that money feeling so great put it toward the mortgage like you said and start work and chip that mortgage away yep and you're doing great you'll have some awesome financial peace you'll sleep a lot easier with no mortgage but no more paranoia no more fear no more headlines just take a break for safety's sake

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[Music]

this is a big week here at ramsey you know most people know dave ramsey is the rich guy on the radio and that he is he made his first million in his 20s and he did it the wrong way and went bankrupt many of you know that story and that's when he set out to learn god's ways of managing money and created the ramsay baby steps and by following

these steps dave became a millionaire again and this time he did it the right way with zero debt he spent the next three decades guiding millions through the same plan he followed and today the evidence is undeniable if you follow the baby steps you will become a millionaire and get to live and give like no one else and he covers all of this in his new book called baby steps millionaires that's available for pre-order now you'll learn how ordinary people build extraordinary wealth

and how you can do it too it's not out of reach he walks you through how to invest build wealth and bust through the barriers preventing you from becoming a millionaire so for those who are ready it's game on you can baby step your way to becoming a millionaire you can pre-order your copy today at ramsaysolutions.com and we sweeten the deal we've got over a hundred dollars worth of bonus items

when you pre-order including the baby steps millionaire's audiobook and e-book and dave actually reads the audiobook himself which is that's going to be a good time you also get the legacy journey audiobook and ebook and the baby steps millionaires live stream along with ramsey smart tax you can file for free using that including a ramsay plus 30 day free trial there's so much in there rachel i'm super pumped for

this book and the cover is just beautiful i must say say that same thing such a beautiful it's dave on the farm at sunrise i know he's out in the field very excited in the wild yes with a no teeth smile and this has been

the smirk and uh this is dave's first book in a long time i know it's an awesome a long time and so i'm pumped for it there's some awesome stories in here you're gonna learn how dave personally invests his money and uh i'm i'm baby stepping my way to be a millionaire i'm excited to pay off my house maybe by the end of the year close you

and whitney fingers crossed by the end of the year rachel we're paying off the house by the end of the year like yes oh my gosh george i know i know are you gonna do a debt-free scream i want to do you think it'd be weird no okay that's a new poll should george do a dead freezer i'm here for maybe with confetti we also don't really have a say it's going to be kelly

so we have to decide if kelly wants me to do that free spring oh kelly decides

when he pays off his house at the end of the year yes kelly said yes america it's gonna happen that's like a and that's a big deal and i'm just i'm so proud of you and whitney the way you guys went about that whole thing because i remember you guys building yeah you because it was it was a newer build yep and you were able to pick up

the finishes and you guys were being so smart about the upgrade i mean all of it and and you did it so well thank you i'm excited that means a lot it's awesome yeah it's been just over two years so it can be done i'm not that special i'm not like a financial genius we just followed the baby steps and we created margin by paying off our debt

and we've been been investing diligently and those of you know my story my wife works here at ramsey solutions so not a huge leap to get her on board she's all in on this stuff and so we're super excited and i just want everyone to know that the stuff in this book is not theory it's real stories real everyday people not you know athletes and celebrities they're everyday people they're teachers they're engineers who just diligently saved

and followed the steps and did it so i'm super pumped for this book make sure you go grab your copy at ramseysolutions.com open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two is the number to call jessie joins us in springfield jesse welcome to the ramsey show hey guys thanks for having me on absolutely how can we help well my wife and i are on baby step number two um just kind of just getting

the ball rolling right now however we got a call my uncle passed away and my sister and i are his heirs

wow i'm sorry to hear that

oh thank you guys i appreciate it it was it was a pretty sudden but you know he's in a better place than we are i guess yeah um so we know it's going to be a substantial amount of money it should be somewhere between 100 and 150 um for my sister and and for myself but we know it was not in the will but we do know his wishes that

he wanted to take care of my kids and my sister's kids colleges my wife and i are on the fence of whether or not we use this money to get

out of all of our consumer debt everything but the home and fund the college ourselves or whether or not we just leave this money invested and to use it for their college how many kids do you have and what are the ages i have two that are six and three okay so we've got a long ways away for college and how much debt do you have yes consumer debt other than the mortgage consumer debt if you count school loans it's about 120.

okay and when you said 100 250 is that each so you're saying two to three hundred total um correct okay so if we're saying two to three hundred total here and you have 120 in debt that means you can clean up the debt wait no he's going to get 150 the sister will get 150.

oh the sister yes yes i think it's split in half yep so 100 to 150 so with this money you will maybe be able to clean up all of your consumer debt and that's it correct yes and then you're saying can we just then fund our kids college and will that be enough to kind of be a blessing to the legacy that he left you right that's exactly the question yeah

this may be a little technical i don't know this is kind of what went in my head because i don't know if you feel this jessie because there's two ways you can look at it one it's like yeah you use the money strictly for hit what he wanted is what you know of the kid's college um or you used to pay off debt and like you're saying go through

the baby steps by the time your kids are are 18 you're gonna have plenty of money to send them to college um so there's like kind of the or i like that kind of the both options so what you could do if you if it makes you sleep better at night you could open up you know a 529 or an

esa and start out

with a little bit to put in there so it's like you start the college fund with his money and then use the remaining to pay off your debt and then as you and your wife get to baby step five then you guys fund the rest of it but almost it's kind of like he his money kind of kicked off a little bit of the funds you know just special because if you put some money in there now at their age you've got uh 12 and 15

years for that money to grow and the esa has a has a limit so i think it's close to about 2 000. yeah so that's 4 000 of

150 000 just to get them started

jesse just so there's kind of a okay i don't know a little bit of a symbolism there yeah just to say hey there's there's some of that and then using the rest yep to pay off your debt because again his legacy for them to go to college will be fulfilled because of you

guys either way it's because of that legacy he left that's right that to me it's still there yeah but i like what rachel's saying about starting that esa for them right now and you could front load a 529 and get that money rolling in your favor and the the limits on that are going to be a lot different and so you can put a lot more in

there but make sure you've got a good option for your area i would connect with a smart investor pro in your area you can jump onto ramseysolutions.com they're going to really help guide this decision and

figure out what is the best vehicle to make sure that your kids colleges are paid for and that this money grows in the best way yeah but but jesse hear me say though i would i would still take majority of it and pay off the debt though like i mean i'm just saying take a little bit of it just to kind of start it out of memory for him but i would still use majority of it i would i would i would put it towards the debt um to set you and your wife up to really fund those colleges sooner than later maybe set a goal you guys propose now that you guys propose that option what makes sense to me is if i were to pay off my all we have is two vehicles and a school loan so if we paid off the two vehicles and put the rest into a 503 then the the snowball would already be so big we would be through the school loan in no time okay what's your household income uh about 110 okay so either way we're gonna get rid of this debt fast um but i do like the idea of setting aside some of the money uh for that the college for the kids and letting that grow for the next 12 to 15 years and maybe set a goal and say hey we're gonna we're gonna make sure that we have a hundred thousand saved by the time both of them are 18.

[Music]

[Music]

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ken coleman

[Music]

i'm george campbell joined today by rachel cruz you are listening to the ramsay show open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five

our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsay to get the best deal today's question comes from joshua in indiana my wife and i are debt free including our house becoming debt-free has been important to us

because of the spiritual component of not owing anyone anything my problem is that i don't know many people that are truly debt-free the people i know who are successful with money have taken out heloc's on paid for homes to invest the money in the stock market or real estate my financial advisor thinks that i'm silly to not leverage some form of debt with interest rates being so low my wife

and i are considering doing a home addition that would cost around 100 to 125 000 my advisor says that i should take out a hundred thousand dollar equity from take out a hundred thousand dollars of equity from my house invest it and use the earned interest to pay for the remodel this makes sense and sounds very appealing however i'm fighting not to wanting to get back into debt

i hear dave talk about your study of millionaires and how people that got out

of debt never go back into debt again unfortunately i just don't see that done around me what am i missing

a lot to unpack here rachel man where to begin george so first of all joshua way to go baby step seven yeah paid off the house i hope you stay there joshua you're starting to move backwards so well here's the thing he's asking the people i know who are successful have taken out heloc's on paid off homes to invest the money in the stock market and it really comes down to what is your definition of success is

it people who leverage debt up to their eyeballs and one day the market crashes and their life is screwed and they have to file for bankruptcy or is it i don't owe anyone anything and you said in the beginning that becoming debt-free has been important because of the spiritual component of not owing anyone anything so here's what's hard about all of this especially when you get into

this conversation about investing and real estate and i can invest my mortgage payment make more on the interest and you know i mean like there's all these taxes interest rates are so low you're stupid to pay it off yeah about the mortgages or even things like this like the heloc but here's what people you touched on this george but it's just true here's what people don't take into consideration is

the amount of risk that you're putting on yourself that you don't have right now joshua you have no risk if something happens right now you haven't paid for it you're fine like you don't bills and suddenly when you start kind of messing around and again the math could work you could we could sit here and do a whole math lesson and it could come out on paper right like

it could come out but what you don't factor in is risk you don't factor in life you don't factor in you know that that something could you know happen to your i mean this terrible say but right that something could happen to your wife and and she wants to stay home then with the kids not work and now you have this bill and you took this out

and now you have to have the income because you took on this debt i mean like it just snowballs into this insanity and you don't have to step into that and so there's a level of that freedom that i think is way more successful than messing around with the numbers and trying to kind of get rich quick is what it feels like i want to i want an easy way to build wealth well

this is easy um instead of actually working and saving i'm paying for something i'm gonna finagle the market and finagle my assets that i have here to try to make some you know it's like this math game you know what get out of the game just save them and pay for stuff it can be that simple and that clean yeah and it's amazing that they've done the baby steps yeah

and they're still at this place mentally of was this the right choice i mean do you want a mortgage again joshua buyer your financial advisor 100 stupid

get rid of them i highly doubt they're smartvestor pro because they don't have the heart of a teacher they're telling you to go back into debt and invest it and use the earned interest to pay for this remodel that's dumb you guys have the money how much is he getting huh that's the question who's going to win in this scenario joshua if i'm

you've got to stop looking to the culture to figure out what success looks like financially because they don't have a clue man walk down the streets look at all the cars with loans on them the homes that are over leveraged and you tell me what success is when the bank can't come take your house when you can't make a payment yeah and so you have all the income in

the world you don't know anyone anything and therefore you can pay for that home edition of a hundred thousand dollars you can save up and pay cash for it cash flow that thing without needing to take equity from the house and do all kinds of stupid don't go backwards that's right keep going forward thanks thanks for asking joshua good good question there steve joins us from wichita steve welcome to

the ramsay show thank you for taking my call sure how can we help yeah well i'm trying to make a decision here i am i've been a uh straight commissioned salesperson for through the years i'm an independent contractor i've been very well in it um

last year was a bit of a struggle because of covid it did affect my business and um but i still had a pretty average year

income wise last uh so then this year uh thinking that everything would get quite a bit better it actually hasn't my business is down about 40 this year

um so my struggle here is um wondering if i

should use some cash to pay off my house and a truck loan um being on straight commission i'm just not really comfortable pulling the trigger on that how much money do you have in in cash and savings well right now i've got um close to right around 100 000 in cash uh liquid cash um i've got about 70 cash on hand i've got a ten thousand dollar emergency fund and about a year ago i started another independent uh sales job it only doesn't sales but an independent business that i make about 20 000 a year on that also i'm trying to keep that separately so what's your average yearly income obviously this year was different yeah with um with the straight commission i'm usually around 80 to 110 000.

and how much do you have in that in total uh the only debt i have is uh 41 000 on

a house and about 13 on a truck we have no other debt okay um i am

getting ready to do a home improvement that i will use about 15 000 in cash to do that um what i'm seeing here on paper is you could pay off the truck loan pay off your house and do these home renovations all with the money you have and still have some left over and still have your emergency fund is that right that's true i'm just being on being on straight commission for 30 years

you know it's just you want to have a bigger emergency fund in case the sales don't come in yeah yeah you know and it's just like said it is something i could do um i'm just hesitant to pull the trigger on how about this steve if you don't have a mortgage your expenses are going to go down right so there's less to worry about there and so

then i would plan out what does six months of expenses look like if i didn't have a mortgage and that's going to give you some peace here way more than having the car loan and the mortgage riding on your shoulders yeah because steve you'll have about 30 i mean from what i jotted down if i got the numbers right you mean you'll still have about 30 000 left over

after you do all of that um which is a pretty solid emergency fund you can always bump that up if it still does that doesn't make you comfortable and i know the income went down you said what kind of business are you in what are you selling promotional products and corporate apparel okay

and so with uh kovad last year there

were no events everybody started canceling events and i thought it would take up quite a bit this year and it just hasn't come up to my expectations as far as my business goes now i don't know what next year is going to do you know right i don't know yeah but um this year's down that's why i'm hesitating this year to you know go ahead and chunk that money out

and steve do you have anything in retirement do you have anything in retirement yeah my wife uh just retired so she's you know she's got her social security and we do have investments that we haven't tapped into yet so she's pulling social security only okay um i'm 64 so

i'm not ready to retire and i probably won't retire till i reach full retirement age okay that's great well i want you to still be thinking about that before the house has paid off if you want to throw some extra at the retirement just because you're getting close to that age yep yeah but man the true financial security true financial piece is gonna come from not owing anyone anything get rid of that mortgage get rid of the truck loan you'll still have plenty of money left over well done this is the ramsay show [Music]

[Applause]

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so

our scripture of the day comes from proverbs 13 12.

hope deferred makes the heart sick but a longing fulfilled is a tree of life

dale carnegie said most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five you know rachel i was just with uh my pal dr john deloney yeah and he gave me these uh these little cards and he just released

these and they're really fun they're called questions for humans by dr john deloney and it's literally a pack of cards a deck of cards that have questions and there's three different kinds you get the parents and kids edition the couple's edition and the friends edition and he gave me the parents and kids edition which i don't have kids and he gave us the couple's edition and we thought

you know what let's try our hand at this and george was like at the break okay let's go through a couple and pick some out and i said no george let's just randomly pick out of the deck this is delony we have full um permission because george and i are not a couple that we get to put at least two back if they're like inappropriate a couple questions

because it's doctor johnson to be clear uh this is fun the reason he did this he's always telling people to unplug to connect with real people and this is a way to actually have real conversation instead of staring at each other awkwardly okay here's my first one um if you could try three different careers what would they be oh that's a fun one am i answering for myself or does

this like you answer i answered and i'll answer okay three different careers what would they be number one i would be a political correspondent that's good for a news network yep

absolutely follow campaigns rounds number two i would be a singer oh nice arena style like tv

okay oh yeah like i would but i i almost would go for the younger generation like the whole miley cyrus hannah montana thing you know she she you're the crowd she dropped hannah montana i'm like you could have taken that brand hannah montana could have gone to college hannah montana could have gotten married sorry like she could have made bank on that brand but she decided to go different directions clearly but i would have done that i would have done like the teeny bopper yep yeah all right and then my third um um

oh my gosh maybe like a like like um

like on a caribbean island type situation that's not is that how is that a career i'm not sure you just want to be on a caribbean island i'm just going to be a president well there you go folks she wants to be a political correspondent a pop star or just live on the caribbean okay for me i'm gonna go uh late night show host okay uh a rockefeller center would be fun yeah that's a one career uh mailman

really there's something about such a simple you're just delivering people the most i love it and you just walk around everyone loves the mailman

yeah you get to wear the shorts with the high socks it's kind of like dorky and old school mr rogers had a mailman it just feels cool i love that george you could do that and then lastly weatherman oh meteorologist i grew up watching meteorologists and on the news and i just thought that looks like fun you know a storm trace chaser would be fun you're much more adventurous i just want to be in front of the green screen pointing rachel wants to be in the middle of the storm oh my george the year this

this is what america needs uh all right if you if i took you to a tattoo parlor right now and you had to get a tattoo what would it be that's a fun one i would get like kids initials winston like i would do like a like a a family oriented like a yeah something um i don't know if i'd want to visit i don't know maybe like on my like my ring oh that would be nice yeah like all

the initials on your right do that yeah yeah sweet something like that that's what would you do george um i was gonna say my wife's name but i feel like getting an actual little like camel symbol like a little you know cause my last name's camel with a k it only feels right to get an actual camel um maybe with whitney's initials in it that would make

it sweet and not as weird but i'm not a tattoo guy i'm not you know no one would take me seriously if i had a full sleeve no they're like nah we don't buy it i'm like well crap it's on my body forever now yeah you know we got a lot of tatted people here at ramsey and they look really cool one of our engineers in the booth james childs no tattoos okay uh

i well uh folks if you want to check these out you can go to ramseysolutions.com uh they've got a deck of cards for couples for parents and kids um and for friends yes so there we go check it out questions for humans by dr john dolone this is great to bring home for the holidays yes because it's sometimes hard to connect with with family and you're trying to catch up

and this kind of relieves the tension and you really learn a lot and you'll have a lot of laughs and uh it's a great mailman george with the camel tattoo yeah i always was obsessed with ups guys all the brown i had a thing for the color brown yeah just total i don't know what what they always bring happiness you know all right let's take a call uh

before james takes us off the air scott joins us in minneapolis minnesota scott welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for having me hey how can we help today uh so i'm a 29 year old um currently

paying an additional 2 400 on my the principle of my mortgage each month way to go i should have it yeah thanks um i

should have it paid off by december of 2023 if i keep on being able to pay the same amount um i don't really enjoy my job right now and i was thinking about going back to college and getting into maybe a field of engineering or finance just kind of wondering an opinion should i wait until i pay off my house before going back to college or should

i call it paying off my mortgage on hold so that i don't have to go into student loan debt and i can instead use that money for my student loans or yeah that's a great it's a great question well here's the thing uh i don't think you need to you don't have to be in a rush to pay off the house i don't want you to be miserable for years

and just to say well i paid off my house now i can pay cash for school can you pay save up and pay cash for school as soon as possible and then attack the house after that

i mean i'm sure that i could and especially if i get into a higher paying job after college then probably even be easier to pay off the loan and that's sort of what i'm wearing right now what's your income um right now i make 46 000 a year and my

wife makes about 20 000 so combined close to about 70. and you have 2 400

extra to put on the mortgage every month after all said and done yep absolutely because i've been following the baby steps got all out of debt and we don't have many extra expenses we just kind of live minimalist that's awesome so great um scott do you know what you want to do um like i almost would want you to have like a career out there that you're working towards um

before you go get a degree because there are situations that you don't even need a degree depending on where you work where you could change jobs and not feel like you have to go and invest in a degree now some some career paths obviously you have to have higher education um for so that would make total sense but i just wonder if there's something out there that

you could do that still gets that fulfillment you can change career paths without having to get a degree sure what i'm looking at out of my degree right now would be environmental engineering would be kind of the goal or possibly a personal financial person

would be kind of my idealistic world but yeah i've looked into other things like certificates and things i could get as well and none of them have really stuck to me as much as those career paths sure sure which is yeah totally fine well um yeah i think once you kind of figure out and narrow down hey this is the path i want to do whether it is doing engineering or personal finance but once you kind of figure that out then going for a degree that you're going to need in the dream job after

you know if you if you hold on scott kelly can pick up and give you uh ken coleman's new book paycheck to purpose because he walks people through a plan kind of where you're at of kind of figuring out okay what do i want to do what are the steps that i need to really change and and oh yeah and she said the clear assessment too is what will give

you that because um all of these tools are really going to i think help give you more insight and more of a game plan um to have something that you're shooting for so hopefully those will help and then make sure that education matches the goals and figure out what is the right college choice that i can afford in cash and cash flow and uh that

house will pay itself off i mean you guys are so gazelle intense i'm not worried about that house getting paid off soon i want to make sure that you're living in your purpose doing something that you really love to do and that you're getting paid well yeah do it way to go man great job scott all right that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books

i want to thank my co-host rachel cruz good times today rachel i want to thank our friends in the booth there james childs our producer kelly daniel our associate producer and phone screener and you america it's been a fun one we'll be back with you before you know it until then spend wisely save intentionally and give

generously this is the ramsay show

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did you know you can listen to the ramsay show on your smart speaker just tell alexa google assistant or siri to play the ramsay show podcast check out all ramsay network shows on your smart speaker today

you

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[Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice ken coleman is my co-host today

here on the ramsay show ramsay personality best-selling author and author of the brand new book that launches tomorrow from paycheck

to purpose the clear path to doing work you love now ken if a book launches tomorrow that means today is the last day to get all the bargains that's right and we've put out quite a bargain i mean first of all 20 bucks

is your entry point for this at

ramseysolutions.com and then we're gonna give you the ebook the audiobook read by me plus over a hundred dollars in other tools like our resume templates uh a video course that teaches you how to get hired how to beat the competition right now dave we have the biggest demand in employee talent we've ever seen and it is competitive and so that's a course that comes with that purchase all a part of that 100 plus of free items so we are certainly uh bribing but it's one of the greatest bribes of all time 55 of

americans are looking for a new job right now and if you want to stand out in that sea of talent passion and experience uh you have to be very very clear and

ken has the process to do that from paycheck to purpose one of the things some of you discovered during the uh aforementioned pandemic was that life's too short to spend your life doing things you suck at or you hate and or both and so people are leaving stuff where they're not ain't good at it they're leaving stuff where they hate their toxic environment they're sick of it

they want to move on they want to do something with meaning and from paycheck to purpose helps you do that in the title it tells you that so yeah that's the whole process by the way we we're giving you both we want you to have a fatter paycheck and and experience more purpose and yet dave in that ramsey it's not either or it's not either it's both

and it's not like i have to live my purpose but i'm gonna work at a non-profit for ten percent of what i could make somewhere else no that's just we'll grab that's exactly right and this idea that i can't make a really good living doing something that i care deeply about it's a process and we unveil that path interesting dave in the ramsey solutions work study the full study will come out

first of the year that 55 of americans looking for a new job right now that's one little piece of data from this study another piece is that 64 of those americans that are actually 64 percent are saying i want to

move but i'm not sure where to move and again this book provides the clarity that key word there clear path is this isn't just grab your machete and go we're going to point you on the right path and show you how to do it even if

by the way you're working through the baby steps i think a lot of people certainly in in the ramsey solutions tribe go okay i definitely want to work on purpose but i'm paying off debt well there are multiple maybe more money get a bigger shovel as a result of this and get out of debt faster so 20 for the book today's the last day that you get 100 worth of bonus tools like resume templates guides video courses all kinds of goodies included in the audiobook the e-book everything in there it's it's a deal today is the last day from paycheck to purpose by ken coleman number one best-selling author esmeralda is going to start off this hour in fresno hi esmerelda how are you hi guys i'm ready to get to talk to both of you better than i deserve what's up okay so i'm kind of like corruptional nurse and um i get paid pretty well for what i do just because of the environment that i work in and my goal is to become a school nurse which actually got the position and i should start soon but i'm definitely going to take a pay cut just because of the change of environment and this is something that i've been wanting to do for a very long time because i'm just stressed and overwhelmed and the environment is just not the best to work at but my question is whether this is a good move right now financially just because i will be taking a pay cut how big of a pay cut it's about fifteen thousand dollars a year what do you make now i make a hundred okay and you're going to cut to 85 and be a school nurse is that what you said yes but then in about two to three years i'll be back at 100.

okay well let's talk about what the next two to three years looks like before that so where does that put you are you single income double income um double income my husband makes about 120 so that's why he's not worried and he's like you need to go for this if this is something that you really want to do because we're we have about 40 000 in debt so he's willing to buckle

down and pay all that off that's awesome well have a 200 000 income between the two of you sure so this is not just more me and being scared of like hey you know i went to school and got my rn and i wanted to make 100 and i think it's just more me taking like the drawback of taking the pay cut yeah can i suggest to

you esmerelda it may not be just you part of this i wonder i wonder if you're worried about what other people might say or are already saying when you go from rn and this you know that's obviously a very prestigious role and moving into school nurse i wonder how much of that is coming from what you think other people might think or say

i think i don't think it's i think it's just me if i had a goal of making a certain amount and how i am and with over time here that the potential is limitless but also i'm concerned with my mental health and obviously a little bit of safety because it's getting a little out of control in here at times i would say well esmeralda you just laid out multiple reasons

you answered your own question as to why this is the right move all of those negatives are absolutely confirmation that you need to move but the biggest confirmation is that you've longed for this you said i've wanted to do this for a long time your husband is on board that's a fantastic position to be in financially this is not going to be that big of a hit you're still going to pay off that debt

and you're going to be happy and you're going to be fulfilled and i understand where you're coming from but you need to give yourself a break because you have in fact achieved that goal but what's great is you now realize that that goal doesn't match up with your heart and you got to follow your heart here esmeralda step into this this is a great move there's nothing wrong with

this move this is the right move what's the uh what's the worst case scenario you take the new job and you get over there and you hate it and 20 seconds later you can be an rn again in a hospital oh no yeah i can so you're not this is not a part this is not like uh you've burned all the boats and you can't go back home

you know so you you can do whatever you want to do go try it and if it doesn't work go back to being an rn in a less toxic environment someplace some other hospital some other situation would be an rn at the school i know but i'm saying go back into the medical world rather than the school nurse world and um if you don't like it if

you like

it you know it it this is a no

lose scenario because you you can

in the world that you live in you can get another job in 26 seconds if you decide you don't want to be a school nurse anymore after a year so do it absolutely go do it esmerelda yes that's exactly the way this works guys so what ken does every day on the ken coleman show if you want to talk careers we'll do that you wanna talk money we'll do that

the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five or we'll talk about your mama you're right in front of you if you want me to whatever you wanna talk about we're here it's that simple the book is from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love on the streets tomorrow last day today of the pre-sale at ramsey solutions.com with all

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welcome to the ramsay show common sense for your dollars and cents in a culture where common sense is so rare that if you have it it's like having a super power ken coleman and i are here to help you with your life your money your career the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five devin is

calling us from japan well there you go hi devin hi dave i'm looking for

short term housing for about two months out of the year when we come home come back to the states in the summer time my wife is a teacher and in the fun and i'm a retired military so in the summers when we come home we need a place to stay for about two months and we don't own property right now and with the way the market is right now is i don't see when that could actually happen

but should we buy a house or is there a good way to find i didn't think so and i was

really warm to that i've tried airbnb

but um airbnb just seems really overpriced to me so i'm looking are there any other alternatives to that um there's some corporate housing stuff out there in the hotel world uh where somebody's coming to town to work and they'll it's like a corporate suite thing it's not necessarily the best in the world but i would probably prefer an airbnb or a vacation setting of some kind um

and it just depends you know what i've done on uh not airbnb but on vacation housing is uh and i did it not long ago i negotiated with the owner i said listen i'm not going to be there for a week and i'm not going to be there for a weekend i'm going to be there for a month now you don't have to change anything out you don't have

the labor you don't have the turnover you don't have somebody tearing up your stuff this was a luxury property i'm going to be there a month i didn't stay the whole month but sharon did so uh i had to come back and work but anyway so we we rented the thing and it was in effect like an airbnb type thing there's a luxury uh uh vacation rental

and uh i just

negotiated with a guy now i got to tell you the first three people we went at said no we went full price and i said well you're not the one then and uh because guess what there's three more down the street and i'm going down the street down the street down the street until i find one and i think that's what you're looking for so you may have to get something that's not your

first choice but um i think you shop around in that world and you go at it with this is a two-month deal it's not a weekend rental

and you should get a different reaction if you put your shoes on the other feets what i was doing i was saying i mean put the put where are the other guys moccasins if i had a vacation rental up i would do a deal that way sure yeah because i'm getting some i don't have to screw with it right and somebody's not i don't have the wear

and tear of three bachelorette parties versus a stable family you know coming in and out of there which nothing will tear up a house like a frat or a bachelorette party they'll just tear up anything right so wild yeah

crazy it just depends here on his situation too where he's staying where they're coming in do they have any community where they come back to for a small amount of time and putting the word out too i wouldn't overlook the idea of like putting the word out saying hey here's our situation you know rates can be really high on these vacation homes yeah some local pastors if your mom

and dad are in a church in that market or your brother's in a church in that market tell them check with their pastor and say hey my you know my brother you know they he served his wife's a teacher and uh by the way thank you for your service yes absolutely and uh that's the best idea i got dude off top of my head uh that and

you can check some corporate housing uh those things are typically not as good a property as a good vacation rental a good one rick is with us rick is in houston texas hi rick welcome to the ramsey show

so i recently lost my job i was on a step 3d so i had 10 000 in my savings for my emergency fund and uh 17

in my separate savings i was saving up for a house fund if i need to start pulling from my savings before i'm able to land another job should i be pulling from the house fund and leave the emergency fund alone or should i be pulling from the emergency fund itself i don't think it matters because you could rename either one of them at the drop of a hat right well

i guess i didn't think of that yeah yeah it's just twenty seven thousand dollars we've got between us and problems and so um but i i probably philosophically would start with the house fund uh here's the thing though i

really don't want you to tap it at all when did you lose your job friday from what why

um there was a training incident

i was training a guy and there was a undercharge in one of the units and you know they terminated both of us okay all right what kind of work are you looking for uh i'm a process operator in the chemical field okay uh in your area of houston texas i'm assuming you've done a cursory check what kind of jobs are open is there a lot out there or is it a little bit tougher yeah typically they do the most hiring in the spring but there's a few here and there that'll hire at this time of year it's just uh you know well and they probably are short-handed right now right you probably got some people that are that normally would hire in the spring but they've got some empty seats yeah right what kind of money were you making um i was at a base salary at 95 000.

companies that said something to the fact of no experience no education no

background check required that was the headline and that's where companies are right now and we're talking about big time companies and so i just think that the market is so hot in the interim while you're applying and you're making the connections and getting interviews i mean dude you could be making somewhere between 15 and 20 an hour uh just to kind of keep things going i just wouldn't touch that account

i don't think you need to i think you're gonna start making some money by friday yeah and uh while you look for this job and i think you'll land a job in two weeks so i don't think you're going to end up touching it but you can make 15 20 an hour doing almost anything right now because there's such a hurt in the market yeah uh and

so and it may not be

what you want to do but rather mess up your house fund is what i want to do sit on my butt at home and mess up the house fund no i'll go i'll go do something else something unpleasant that i didn't really sign up for uh until this gets solved but i think you're going to land something if you'll uh get on this really really fast so ken um

the first thing he should do in his job hunt is what first thing i want him to do is look at what's open out there and then he immediately goes okay who do i know i'm looking at the connection because he's got experience and skill yeah okay and so he's immediately going all right company xyz abc are both

hiring a position i'm ready to go who do i know over there so i can fast track and get above the applicant system and what i mean by that is you know somebody rick and they say all right yeah man i'll put in a good word for you i work in building b the guy who's hiring is over in building a i'll walk your resume over and put a handwritten note on

it if they're not in their office and go hey i've known rick for 18 years that's the play here and then then you go through the applicant system but you want to have a good impression before you ever get into that and they go okay we're going to fast track an interview for rick that's what we're trying to do first get your foot in the door and

you got to know somebody to get in and get past the 30 000 resumes in a stack and the book he's referring to the concept he's referring to is the proximity principle it was the number one bestseller rick i'm going to send you that and i'm also going to give away my very first copy that i gave away

from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love so i'm gonna send you both of ken's books the new one will be a bestseller as well um and then i want you to also i'm gonna send those to you kelly's gonna pick up and give you the stuff uh but go to his website and download all of his free downloads on resumes on letter writing

on the things you do to get your foot in the door do not just go apply for 8 000 positions at monster.com and be surprised nobody called you back that's a that's a fool's errand right now and let me tell you why that advice that i gave is also so vital in this situation it doesn't sound like there's an ethical issue here but the fact of the matter is rick was terminated uh

and yet we still have a super hot market and people are okay with that if you own it don't try to do a politician spin on

this stuff if it comes up own it uh own

it with confidence humility i learned from this is a good thing i totally get it don't throw the old company under the bus here's how i can help you win i'm ready to go don't ever try to just kind of cover that stuff up but when i asked him he gave the perfect answer he gave a great emotion it was not throwing the other company on the bus

he was not a victim that's very clear very concise and that's the exact answer he ought to give up front in any initial interview so that no one catches later and goes well why don't you tell us about this now tell them right up front bust it bust that down and move on move on move on move on this

is the ramsey show

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so [Music]

still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry it's

worth it

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so

the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage kyle and brenda are with

us hey guys how are you good how are you welcome where do you guys live delano minnesota just outside of minneapolis wow and all the way to nashville to do a debt free scream how much have you paid off 572 000. wow 383 dollars and 41 cents

wow how long did that take seven years in two months all right and your range of income during that seven years two months yeah i was about 110 to 200 and currently we're at about 140. okay cool what do y'all do for a living uh brenda's a stay-at-home mom and i am a reporting analyst for a large health insurance company cool well i'm guessing by the length of time and the huge amount of money you paid off your house

and we also own a third of a lake home too so one and a third houses i guess technically all right all debt free 100 death don't know a soul in the freaking world nope nope way to go guys look at

these weird people uh these are weird people right here man you guys are amazing congratulations what a seven year journey that's absolutely cool all right tell us the story how did you get on our stuff for seven years yeah when our second child was we knew they were on the way we put in our spreadsheet that was less than accurate and optimistic at best and the number was actually negative

so we knew that we had to do something we didn't have enough money to pay for daycare for our second child and so we naturally i think we went on facebook and then when the tea where one of the students ready the teacher will appear and someone posted something about it bought the total money makeover and i persuaded brenda to uh join in the joining the fun

so a lot

of persuading i'm glad he did okay so he reads this book and says uh uh we can't pay for daycare which you already knew yeah but this is uh what we're going to do is live on beans and rice rice and beans live like no one else so later we can live and give like no one else and you said i don't think so yeah well i

it took a lot of convincing to you know the slow steps of you want me to cut up my credit card you want me to do what what if something happens being a mom having all those insecurities and then we just went for it and we went crazy and everybody calls us crazy you are crazy you're wonderfully weird i love it wonderfully weird so what did he do that finally convinced

you brenda

what did you do i don't i don't know it was i think just staring down the the

just staring down that we had no other choice i don't know what else to do so i got to try this crazy right right and he's my partner and i trust him and so we just went for it okay and

then the more it worked the more you thought this is smart right right we got after it pretty quick i mean and i was able to quit my job and take care of our kids before our third was born we bought a brand new vehicle with cash and it did all that before we even started to attack attack the house in the morning so how fast did

you get out of the non-mortgage debt it was a little over two years like exactly what your numbers were are normal yeah and two years to do that seven years pay off the house yeah and the car she's talking about was a sweet minivan so she might have left that part out

a sweet minivan let's just go ahead and call it what it is sweet so brenda you said something a minute ago and i think this is this is really good i'd love for for for moms and wives to hear what you say about this when he first approached you about this you were like wait a second i got to cut up the credit cards what if something happens

implying that you saw those credit cards as a safety net and i understand that

and yet here you are now so what would you say uh which is a natural kind of that mother you know like hey you i got to take care i'm a mama bear on the other side of this what would you say to somebody who's listening and watching right now they feel the same way about this journey what i gotta cut up their credit cards that's our safety net what's the answer to that now go get the scissors

i don't know it just is it's just you um but can you have a safety net without credit cards is michael oh absolutely yes i've never even thought about getting a credit card you absolutely can so how did you approach that emotionally as you started to walk through that because you cut them up and then how did you address that safety issue that emotional need yeah that's a good question i just trusted the process and knew that it was there for me and it was there to catch me as long as i put my trust in there yeah that's good just for a while because here you are seven years later with a paid for house what's this house worth it's probably 250 yeah something like that we got we got real crazy we actually downsized our house yeah in order to be debt-free sooner you introduced us to the minimalist then we gave away all our stuff and then we realized we don't really need the big house that we're in before and opportunity came in that we were able to get my grandma's house and we downsized everybody thought we were nuts and two years later no here we are yeah a lot of people thought you were nuts but uh you're not you're you're on your way to being baby steps millionaires in no time i think so well done guys actually we already are yeah you already are yeah all right so how much in the 401k uh it's probably like six it's like 600 and then the house and cabins 400 something so it's plus our minivan is probably still worth 10.

love it well you did everything in order you did it right you submitted to the process and guess what the process worked yep so you're not only debt free house and everything baby step seven but your baby steps millionaires as well way to go i'm so proud of y'all what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is what we were saying about the budget

and how that's cliche so we we were going to pull up the minimalist card and just say like just keep an open mind and try to listen to what other people are doing and just keep learning and it once you get going it just snowballs and it's just rapid pace and next thing you know you look back and seven years later and you're done yeah

what about you brenda what do you tell people the key is um the key is definitely the budget but two i think like the deprogramming of what the world

has told us that we need to have be and how all of a sudden you look back you're like wait i don't need all this stuff i don't need this house i don't need these things i just need my life i love it wow hey we got to send this to joshua yeah they will love this joshua and ryan they will love this yeah that's really great

we had dinner with them last time they were here up at my house and hung out we had some great conversations until deep in the morning they're they're incredible guys so well done you guys i'm so proud of you very very very cool and you brought the kiddos with you to celebrate what are their names and ages drew is nine will is gonna be seven and reid turned five on sunday all right very cool

and if

they've been uh they've been plugged into what you're doing oh yeah they know that their lives are changed they do there's no payments in your world none ever again i love it way to go you guys very very

very cool well we've got a copy of the legacy journey for you because that's definitely the next chapter in your story as you continue this baby steps millionaire journey and i'll give you an extra copy of total money makeover to give away maybe you can start somebody off like you guys started off on that same book that sounds good and that's how you got here well done you guys very proud of you whoo i love it

man this is these people are weird they're awesome they're awesome all right kyle and brenda drew will and reed from the minneapolis area 572 000 paid off in seven years making

110 to 200 house and everything baby steps millionaires count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two

one

[Applause] yeah man oh man oh man

can when you have a clear path and the stuff she said we we i love the phrase uh submit to the process she said she said uh uh

deprogram program from the culture big

word because the culture's idiots that's right in almost everything that's right almost any area of life this culture has lost its mind so deprogrammed from that doing your own thought your own independent critical thinking uh my my good friend one of my

best friends is a pastor who says don't let the world teach you theology talk about deprogramming right and so you know where are you getting your truth from where are you what are you dialing in on are you believing all these broke people are they giving you advice about money because they talked about how many times somebody thought they were crazy but look at crazy look at crazy now baby crazy rich

love it this is so fun this is the ramsay show

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i'm dave ramsey welcome to the ramsey show ken coleman number one best-selling author is my co-host his brand new book comes out tomorrow from paycheck to purpose the clear path

to doing work you love the baby steps are a clear path to becoming a baby steps millionaire paycheck to purpose outlines the clear path to doing work you love exactly step by step by step what you need to do if you want the goodies all the pre-sale items that go with it order it today and you get an extra hundred dollars worth of stuff that you won't get tomorrow all for the same twenty dollars not a bad deal our question today comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they will remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey

to get the best deal today's question

comes from john in indianapolis i have a high stress job that pays 230 000 a year

in addition to dealing with aging parents teenagers in the pandemic the job is wearing me out and it's having a negative impact on my life i've been offered a new job where i'd take a 30 to 40 thousand dollar a year pay cut with the same company but the work is invigorating and entrepreneurial i'm having trouble justifying this pay decrease although i feel i'm going to be happier our only debt is our mortgage

college is funded my wife earns a great salary and we have a healthy savings account so why am i struggling with this decision i don't want to be one of those unhappy people saddle with a job they don't like yet they stay for the money well john then don't be one of those people you don't want to be one of those people so uh my mentor this guy to

the left of me he's got a great little tactic when he gives a speech and he's talking about money changing you go just aside just a little quick clap and i think john you don't want to be one of those unhappy people that stay just for the money let me help you a little bit you don't need the money a 30 to 40 000 pay cut right now uh for

you is going to take you just below 200 000 a year and your wife makes a great salary we don't even know that number so you guys may be in that 300 000 range you're above 250 this work is clearly having a tremendous impact on you all of the signs are there you need to give yourself permission to do the right thing and this is the right thing

i will also tell you that this new job being invigorating and entrepreneurial tells me two things that there's probably a path back up to the money you're making now if not going beyond that i don't have uh that information in front of me but this is the right move you don't need to feel bad about it you're not doing the wrong thing you know dave it reminds me

you know we heard our last the debt free screamer talk about deprogramming and this is an issue here where we are so programmed in our world to put significance and success completely in the financial bucket and yet that's just simply not the case and it makes people like john feel like if i take a strategic cut

that i can absolutely absorb that somehow i'm doing the wrong thing or it's a dumb thing or a not smart thing and i think that's real but in this case john this is the right move all the way around i don't think it's dumb and i agree with ken i would take it however i think you need to keep in mind

that the aging parents and the teenagers

are still going to be there

so where's your stress really coming from what's really going on i mean if you've got some family stuff that's out of balance and you need to set some boundaries have you got some tough decisions you've been unwilling to make with either one of those other two subjects that are putting that are the real cause of the stress make real sure you're treating the right problem not the symptom

and uh the second thing is this again i'll agree with ken take the job john however i do not agree with the supposition that the only way you find happiness is to move down an income that you can't find something that's invigorating what was the phrase he used an entrepreneurial that pays 300 000 a year why is it we always think to be happy we have to make less money what is

this stupid thing that's floating around in this culture that says that by the way if you do something you love you're better at it and you should make more money ultimately yeah i mean but this idea that you have to have poverty associated with happiness or less money associated with happiness is absurd so i would choose a third option as a consideration

and that is where can i find something invigorating entrepreneurial that pays 300.

oh why is it we have to go down all the time i don't understand this so anyway it's okay if you do and i'm going with ken's recommendation but i'm going to challenge you on those two points make sure you got the parents and the teenager thing working because dude that's still going to be there yep and you got to be careful what you think the stress is

so you know the first time that happened to me is when i filed bankruptcy the bankruptcy attorney um didn't do a lot of things right but he said one really wise thing he said uh because you're you're under this tremendous weight of debt which feels like he feels right you got this overwhelming anxiety over the top of you and where you're like something's standing on your chest

i can't breathe and then the day you file bankruptcy that that's just poof you know most of it anyway is gone right and you got some more stress points but by and large i've been fighting it for two and a half years i was ready to sit down the rock baby okay but that guy looks at me and he goes you know what filing bankruptcy does not create an income yeah mic drop yeah that's right it's really good

you know it's like you know you're not going to prosper because you filed bankruptcy you've still got to go out there to kill it and drag it home whatever it is you still got to find a way to eat and of course i responded i got this figured out but but i mean it's still i can remember that 30 years ago i remember that conversation right now

and so that's what i always think you know be careful what you wish for because it might may not be touching what you're talking about you're still the common denominator you're still going to be in the next marriage you're still going to be in the next job your parents and your teens are still going to be there after you make this move you're the common denominator follows

you everywhere i'm glad you brought that up because he could take this move and it could be on paper all the things that he says it is but if the personal life is burning

the job doesn't solve that right it will help right in some ways you've got some purpose as you move into the office but if it's 70 job stress and 30 family it'll help it'll help if it's the other way around it's not going to make a difference you're just going to make less money exactly right and i think that was a really great call out here and

i would also agree with you in this situation if that's the only thing that you've got but it's rarely the only thing and this is situation well i've got an opportunity here and it's going to be better in all these ways and it's less money and i think you're right you got to consider the whole field the whole universe of jobs samantha's in charlotte north carolina hi samantha welcome to

the ramsey show

hi dave hi ken it's an honor to speak with you both you too how can we help um well my husband and i have well we're on baby step seven we have five different retirement accounts between us both i'm wanting to open a sep ira uh with our

business to reduce our taxable income but my question is is there a maximum number of retirement accounts a couple can have without being penalized somehow

no there's not a maximum you can do you can do whatever you need to do if you have too much money sitting in an old 401k or old ira it could affect your

roth contributions but that's all um and so but those are old but in terms of can you do it you can do a sep ira

you could do a sep roth ira instead

you can do a roth ira at the same time

and your husband can do his 401k over at work now the sep is any employees have been with you more than three of the last five years

are also going to get the same percentage of their income that you put in the percentage of your income into it so do you have employees been with you a while we do not okay so you can put in up to about 13.6 is what the calculation is going to end up being 13.6 of your uh

profit on that business your taxable income on that business can go into that sep and you can make it a a roth sep is what i would do and get with one of our smart vester pros at ramsey solutions.com and get signed up for that and uh um you know they can help you walk through the process but you know there's a lot of different kinds of accounts

you can have 401ks you could have uh you could have a 401k at your work he could have a 403 b at his work um you could have seps you can have uh ir individual iras at the same time uh

as you've got all these others that there's you know there's a couple of them there's one or two of them that overlap now now and each of them have an in each of them have a contribution limit that you can do but uh but the number of accounts no

by and large there's very little if any limitation on that so good question ken coleman ramsey personality my co-host today here on the air this is the ramsey show [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts [Music]

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host thank you for jumping in the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today today is the last day to order his new

book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love for twenty dollars and get a hundred dollars worth of pre-sale items thrown in all kinds of goodies there you can get the video course guides templates resume

templates you can get the audio book and the e-book all included the pre-order

ends tonight because the book goes on sale in bookstores and around america all day starting tomorrow and all of you that have pre-ordered the book they will all ship uh this week to you so you're going to be getting them as soon as possible uh we've been able to uh work through the uh uh pandemic paper shortage and got the book got the books out no question got them out into uh into target and into barnes and noble and into that fine french store and um

uh all those places right and all the places great books are sold and uh of course amazon has them and of course ramsey solutions has them if you want to do the pre-order and get all the deal go to ramseysolutions.com today today's your last day gary's with us gary is in kansas city hi gary how are you hi dave team ramsey uh honor to speak with you

you too i wanted to uh just go over what's in my life in my brother's lives a little bit of a complex uh question question we need answered regarding uh my mom who died a couple of months ago and uh some of the far out from that oh thanks what happened what did she pass away from um

i think officially it was covet however there was more to it she was she had a lot on her mind she was dealing with my dad who had dementia she was uh lived a life of service and entertaining for us and just provided her life that she was very joyful person and a lot of friends a lot of uh a lot of great relationships she established and

we uh we were just blessed for a couple of show weeks ago you mentioned uh what we inherit from our parents you know a big cash nest egg and all maybe that's not so good but instead is better a

a work ethic and i think we got that from my parents god god bless them you know anyway we miss him please her fiercely and uh so it's it's part of it's so that's joy but there's a sad part that we're trying to work through she was scammed the last two years of her life pretty pretty and she bought into bought into it pretty pretty deeply um

and we were sort of tracking it but not real uh not as close as we should have this as i'm remote from her i have some some mega million scam or something uh got it got into her head and uh she was very uh concerned about you know providing some kind of uh inheritance for her for us is your dad still is your dad's still alive he is

and and yes he he's with us and

my middle brother is really stepped up and he's he's doing dad basically taking the place of what my mom was doing so did she lose all of their assets

in a word yes okay she has sold a house about a year and a half ago all the proceeds spent and

there's nothing left but debt the debt is the debt is not that so the debt is like kind of small but it's so

where we're going with this question is the ethics of it so she had in this scam the the scammers had convinced her to buy three iphone 12s and and and they would reimburse her in all this and it was somehow how she was going to pay the taxes as well that's where a lot of the money apparently went then he had a she uh so she bought

these three iphone twelve they're a thousand bucks a piece and uh a big cell company or a big um one of the big ones um now has this bill out she wasn't getting

the installments of funding that were said to be coming from the scammers of course so at the point where she was seeing she bought these phones and then of course shipped them off all at her expense with the cell phone provider companies whatever they uh

they they got free two free phones she kept one of them and now she wasn't gonna pay the financing find it you know your finances these things and then she was i guess kind of so she didn't pay the three thousand dollars off we still have this three thousand dollar bill and there's nothing to be redeemed as far as her credit because her credit shot she had a great credit she did great things with her money for her life when you pass away gary what you own stands good for what you owe

and so she has a 3 000 debt does she own your dad and her own anything he's got a car um there's there's little penny any stuff that is around a car

the uh i mean there was some some little some hard assets that were were uh able to uh liquidate an event that wasn't even to be done but we weren't really uh

uh they come after her estate that i guess that's all they can do they can come after her estate and if you guys sold an antique dresser for ten thousand dollars and kept that money instead of paying this bill then they would have recourse against you guys okay so yeah she uh saddled us with this it sounds like yeah what you own stands good for what you owe

when you pass away but your kids do not inherit debt but your kids will not get an inheritance until the debt is paid out of the things that they owned your mom and dad owned where is your dad living he's in a a memory care facility [Music] so he's got a checking account with three thousand dollars in it yes there's that yeah we've got a little bit of uh my brothers

and i are all if this is the only debt that there is you're gonna have to pay that debt in order to clear the rest of the assets even though they're penny annie it's not ethics it's the law yeah okay and they that you know they're probably for three thousand dollars not gonna chase you guys down and you know put you in a headlock and and you know try to get

the three 3000 bucks out of you if it's a practical matter but that's technically the way this works and so morally the way this works understood yeah you're gonna you're gonna have the unhappy experience of completing the scam right goodness um okay and how prevalent is this is this a very proud i need to do i need to get as i retire from my military should i go into detective work in cyber

and in regards to trying to protect elders from their yeah the only problem is the people that will be paying you are broke because they've been scammed uh but yeah it's pretty prevalent that's a pretty standard the iphone scam you know that whole thing that's fairly normal we hear it sadly more often than we should and um yeah it's it's it's pretty prevalent but i don't know whether

you can make an income doing it or not that's a whole nother discussion this is the ramsay show [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personalities my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five

two two five so if you suspect that a loved one is being scammed

suggested steps i think you have to have a sit down with them and say hey i think something's fishy here can we dig into this and try not to put them on the defensive but ask some questions dig in uh do a little bit of uh your own version of a private investigator and uh dive into it and then show them hey this doesn't seem to make a lot of sense

and many times they just need somebody else to kind of look at it and go hey this doesn't seem right and i think that's the first thing i do and if it's not right i'd say hey this is a bad idea we're going to get you out of this let me help you know because i think there's a certain amount of embarrassment there oh always think about that

you know so go in i go in a little easy i'm trying to put myself in the shoes of talking to my father you know if he were to have that situation and i'm going to have to come in there and not embarrass him not make him feel like he was totally duped make the bad guy the bad guy not them the bad guy that would be my approach that's exactly right that's exactly how

you do it and it's really not hard to research these scams that's correct well a simple google search will pop up in front of you and uh you know mega millions scam spanish letter scam nigerian letter scam there's several versions out there and uh um the people get sucked into all kinds of different things and just if you just if you have enough information you know where there's cell phone

and mega millions both mentioned all you do is type that in boom it'll pop up show you exactly what they're doing how they're working it yeah what's going on and then

you just can send that link and go listen this is what's happening to you yeah yeah let's get you out of there and so um you know you didn't do anything wrong no uh you were just trying to leave an inheritance what a horrible motivation but uh the number of times i've seen people in the name of leaving an inheritance to their children get into stuff they should not get into is over 30 years of doing

this it's all the time oh i'm sure bad financial products scam real straight up scams like that lady got scammed um but all in the name of i want to leave the kids something which is a misguided thing to start with the most important thing you can leave them is to not do that kind of stuff well you know i just i've learned this you know if it's too good to be true it's almost always yeah

if it smells fishy there's fish involved

i mean come on you know if you think if you i got a bad feeling you know why you got this this just felt weird you know why it felt weird because it was weird oh yeah that's why i felt weird yeah and trust yourself you know yeah i'm glad you said that so you know i'm a big nerd and i read a lot i was reading a book i'm reading a book right now by a physicist

and you know you talk about you it's legendary you talk about sharon dave's wife sharon she's she's got incredible great great great common sense you always talk about that feeling you say it the way that i can't say it but you can say it there it is and but you know there's actually the physicists have done research on this real quick they had they put heart monitors on world-class grand master chess players to find out

if that gut feeling is that a gut feeling or is it actually tied to the same mechanism that we kind of say well i logically thought through this decision long story short this grand master chess player's heart rate spiked every time in the match before they made an incorrect move and the the so the the

conclusion was that gut feeling

that's actually your brain sending a physical response to your body and your heart is warning you don't do it don't do it and so i just wanted to point out that when you have a bad feeling don't put that off as a gut thing as some mysterious thing that's your brain and your body combining to go stop

yeah but i had a weird feeling about him you know that's because he's weird right you know that's just you know that's the thing it's just trust yourself yeah and um you know because you know that about 20 times while that lady was sending off that money of those cell phones and selling her house to do this that she had those things you know she had an inkling that

this was wrong and so the way you can step in is to tap into that and say you got to trust yourself because yourself is telling yourself this is not this bad deal this is a bad thing trust yourself and i used to say trust your gut instinct and my friend who's a pastor said that's not your gut that's the holy spirit don't call the holy spirit your gut trust god's spirit that's in

you which will speak to you and say don't do it yeah yeah that's it yeah and your body is sounding more like a demon than it did it kind of did but hey that's kind of what we have to get rid of sometimes right alex is with us in minneapolis hi alex how are you hi i'm doing good how are you today better than i deserve how can

we help

hey so my husband and i are both about 30 respectively we make about 200k

together uh we have a little baby just one kid we have no debt we are investing in full we tithe in full etc um we also have our six month

emergency fund saved up and we have a little bit of extra money look i'm saved we've got about 40 grand on top of our six month emergency fund that we're not really sure what to do with um we were thinking about putting it into our house to pay against the principal yeah the only time to be in the house for another three years or so it doesn't matter pay it off anyway pay it off anyway as fast as you can

okay we can do that yeah you should be putting no more than you should be putting no more than 15 of your income

currently into retirement and you should be saving for your kids college and every dollar that you have beyond that after having a reasonable life because you're at a good stage of this goes towards the house that's what we call baby steps four five and six

now when the house is paid off then i would go back and i would max out retirement but until then i want this

house paid off because we've discovered in our study of millionaires the largest study of millionaires ever done in north america that the typical millionaire the first million to two million dollars worth of net worth that they gain is from a paid for house and a funded retirement okay not one or the other it's both

that makes sense we thought that wasn't the answer we're just nervous about it it's okay it's okay here's the thing you're not gonna lose the money by paying the house mortgage down because if you do sell the house within three years which you're anticipating they're gonna write you a check at closing all that money comes back out yes so do you i mean it sounds like you recommend that over we're planning to move

and we know where we want to go next by buying a piece of property so you recommend paying the house instead of putting money on the property right away yep yeah okay because the two things i run into are not a paid four third piece of property in the millionaire study i run into paid for houses and fully funded retirement plans that's what we run into all

the time that's where the data leads me and so i think i'm going that direction every time there every time so good question dave what's the emotion there because she's they're they're amazing what an unbelievable job so they're such a good job yes what's the emotion there where's that come from on that what's behind that this is a person who's very smart with their money should i put that 40 000 into

the house when i'm moving in three years what what's what's causing that to think oh we don't know if that's smart is what she feels it feels like it's trapped it's like the money's trapped okay can't do anything with it it's in now in the house okay and that is that makes sense by the way that's also a good thing right because you don't accidentally buy a bass boat with

it you know um oops there's that boat in the driveway it is true yeah and so when you trap it in there but it does feel like oh i can't get it back out i can't get to it that's good um and that's why you know someone who's that smart i still remind them even though i know they know this that they're gonna get their money back out of

the house when they sell it because you need to emotionally feel that oh it's not really gone i'm just storing it there that's good storing it as opposed to being stuck it's not stuck it's stored yeah and it's it's it's got a lock on it that's key on it but it's stored open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five today is the

last day to order ken's brand new book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to doing work you love and you can order it today and get for twenty dollars and get a hundred dollars worth of extras including resume templates video courses guides resume guides and the audio and the

ebook all included if you order today if you order tomorrow for 20 you will get the book today you got all the other stuff yeah move on it tomorrow's launch day so get on it while you can ride at ramseysolutions.com

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today on the debt-free stage in

the lobby of ramsey solutions tyler and

melissa are with us hey guys how are you doing good hey dave welcome where do you guys live so we live in a small town called trenton it's near cincinnati ohio it's about 12 000 people in it okay cool well welcome to nashville good to have you and all the way here to do a debt-free scream how much did you pay off so we paid off 49 992 dollars love

it how long did that take it took two and a half years okay and your range of income during that time about 60 to 70 000 although at one

point it was about 40 when i had a back injury and was out of work what do y'all do for a living so i'm a sewer pipe inspector at a company called televac environmental and i'm a wedding photographer and a stay-at-home mom oh fun good for you guys so what kind of debt was this fifty thousand dollars mainly my stolen my student loans and then car um medical bills credit card debt just

the whole nine yards pretty much so how long y'all been married a little over four years okay so two and a half years ago something happened and you start this ramsey journey stuff what'd you do what happened so what happened was our church the little church in hamilton ohio they ended up hosting a financial peace university class and that changed it all so i i just want to give praise to

the the people the leaders for that mike and liz knutson like really changed their lives wow very cool so you you go in there and they're they're announcing it on sunday morning that there's going to be a class and you decide to take it yes yep we knew there was we knew the way we were handling our money wasn't the greatest and we just knew it could benefit our family

and we had a lot of weight from like medical bills when we our daughter was born just a little bit before that so kind of that pressure i kind of like pushed us into it yeah okay cool yeah

there's something about having that first kid and then there's some bills laying around you're like i gotta get this mess clean now yes yeah kind of a wake-up call huh mm-hmm yeah way to go proud of you guys great job very very cool okay so what did you do to get out of debt tell people what the key to getting out of debt is so there i mean there's a lot of keys for us a couple of them was like vision

you know we had to have a road map kind of figure out where no what's coming in what's going on communal care right we had support from

community family friends co-workers that would kind of talk to me along the journey our my parents let us live live in their basement for a little bit her uncle ended up gifting us a car wow you know so and my parents ended up gifting us a car as well wow but a really big one especially for marriages i would say is forgiveness like because you can you could use

the the budget as a weapon if you wanted to and we do you know anybody that might do that i've definitely done it a few times so yeah

so uh so melissa you had to go uh-uh no weapon we're working together um it definitely took a little bit to actually get on train and stuff but because i love hobby lobby taser max target you know there's that okay so a weapon to control melissa's spending okay all right okay that works too it works for me i'll go with it hey the good news is you got on

the same page and started working it together and uh so what was the hardest part of this whole process for y'all the hardest part of the process i guess was like the consistent grind but the the truly hardest was like when i was out of work so we're i ended up getting a back injury we're about almost a year into it and i was out of work for about eight months whoa yes uh bad back injury um

my discs were herniated and that some my mild grades spinal stenosis and that wow

and during that time she kind of really helped us out with you know more wedding taking on more weddings as a photographer than that but i went through kind of a depression and that and ended up you know adding some more debt you know through that process and that and but god so preserved our lives and you know eight months after that we kept kept going on

this whole track and then ended up two and a half years boom we paid it all off wow so i wanted to ask you guys about going into that class financial peace university i'm just curious

you know it's it's it's like we all revert to being childlike in our lives even as adults you know you remember that first day of kindergarten you know first day of junior high it's scary you're walking in i'm curious what was it like even though it was your church is that right what was it like to walk into that class environment this is a brand new thing uh for

you melissa obviously you're kind of like i don't know i'm curious what was the dynamic like as you went in week in week out like definitely it was like nervous at first like i didn't know what to expect um but definitely i think just like the workbook and going through that with our class and like just the slides i just remember like us having conversations i think like weekly just talking about

it and like how it could help our family and all that stuff so i just it was definitely

mind-boggling definitely took a lot to take in but it definitely was worth it what was the part about other people in the class that maybe brought you into some comfort level or hey we're not the only ones talk about that i mean there's definitely other families in there um

people who like even were childless but it was just nice seeing other people that were like us going through the same things people who had credit cards that needed to be done with that and all that stuff so it was just really nice to know that we weren't we weren't alone yeah it makes you feel not so weird that you're not the only person on the planet that messed up with exactly yeah

it kind of normalizes that normal's broke yeah i just don't be normal anymore yeah yeah well way to go guys it sounds like you had quite a long journey there the grind and the the setback and then coming back after the setback and well done very well done very proud of you guys david i want to ask melissa real quick so wedding photographer and i'm looking at

the two and a half year timeline here your wedding's during covet yeah how did you keep that going um kind of stressful but a lot of my couples i'm very thankful for them they didn't actually reschedule for the following year they kept their day either had a smaller wedding or just postponed to like another date and i was available so it was just nice being able to keep my couples

and yeah it was definitely challenging especially it's just yeah covered good for you that's awesome wow very tough

and you brought your daughter with you what is her name and age her name is leilani um she is three and a half years old all right and this is our why this is why we did all this just to change that so hi leilani girl i love it unicorn squad yeah it's a good squad to be on i've heard i've heard i was unaware that it was a squad i got to do some research dave you need to catch up on these things

all right way to go guys very proud of you we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story to be baby steps millionaires you're on your way way to go and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away and get someone else started on their journey maybe one of those young couples you're shooting their wedding

you never know you never know very good stuff all right tyler melissa and leilani from the cincinnati area trenton thousand dollars paid off in two and a half years making sixty to seventy count it down let's hear a debt free screen ready ronnie ready lonnie three two one

words are free

i love it

man that's so fun it never gets old it never gets old financial peace university class taught ramsey plus taught in a in a local church somebody jumps in at just the time that they need it perfect timing and uh and

boom here we set things are going the way they are supposed to go very very well done that's a great testimony too folks if you're considering going i don't know anybody there i don't even go to church there trust me they're going to welcome you the people that are the coordinators are some of the finest people i've ever had the privilege to meet in my life and

then you just heard they're going to be other people and they have the same stuff you have there's no shame it's everywhere just go those people aren't good with money join a community most people aren't you he said the communal party that's right the family helped them they were in a group that's a big part of the process it really is very very well done you guys proud of

you this is the ramsey show

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the ramsey show open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five kansas city's on the line michael is with us hey michael how are you hey dave great to talk to you sure you too how can we help i'm calling uh my mother passed away september of 20.

we are at the end she didn't have a will we're at the end of the probate process and we're trying to figure out what we should do with the house she owes about 90 thousand dollars

there's some foundation damage i'm not sure if we sold it as is it would even be worth what she owes my brother uh me and my brother for the uh the heirs um i tried to get him to uh see if he could get a loan to uh take over the loan because he wants to stay there but he's a convicted felon that's never really thought of working other than buying

and selling used cars so he only makes about twelve thousand dollars a year how's he gonna pay a thousand dollar a month payment well he got uh quite a bit of money from life insurance and things like that but if he doesn't work you know that's gonna run out obviously exactly so he you know i was like well maybe you know we can both go in on

it but i don't really want to be involved uh especially with him right now um so here's the thing

if the house is worth 90 000 and there's 90 000 odd on it it's not worth anything to you you could just let him take it

was um as the mortgage goes do we need to you're not on the mortgage are you you didn't sign the mortgage did you no here's my mom's mortgage do you have any idea what kind of mortgage it is fannie mae fha va it's a uh just a fha okay then your

brother can take over the payments without uh having refinanced it

oh we can yeah okay yeah that fha will not foreclose on an estate they'll let him just pay the payments as long as he keeps them current obviously if he didn't win he quits keeping them current they'll take the house but yeah he's been paying the payments since he passed okay he's living there taking care of her okay um i just wanted to have it then let him just tell him to pay

the payment don't miss a payment though no well i thought maybe if we put a little money into it we could probably sell it for twice what what she's owed on it and then make a little money on it okay that's a different scenario than what you laid out you said the house was worth what was owed on it yeah if we didn't do any repairs yeah yeah

and how much insurance money did you and your brother get uh we ended up getting about 80 000 a piece okay and how much in repairs would you do and then what would the house be worth if you did those repairs i think if we put 20 into it we could probably sell it for 160 to 180

in this market

what do you make a year i'm like 80 and i'm you know married with kids and

okay and i got my own mortgage and a second mortgage to help my kids go to college but uh but you got 80 thousand dollars in the bank yeah so do you because here's the thing your brother would like to stay there if you guys both put in 10 each of your insurance money you know you're going to get that 10 back and another 30 or another 20 or something right each right

after all the smoke clears and go through all this trouble and everything well he would actually get a little more because he's been paying the mortgage yeah okay um i'm gonna give you some

weird advice okay you're signing up for a bunch of hassle

your brother's had a mess of a life and needs a leg up i'm going to take my 80

000 and let him have the house and walk away that's a gift to your brother a little bit but it's also a gift to yourself

and lack of hassle lack of problems lack of whatever he was there he took care of your mom yes he's paid the payments yes all that but uh this will give him a good hard fresh start if he wants to put 20 of his 80 into it and flip it he can make a little money i don't think he's going to do that um and i think

you can just walk away from the hassle and the problems that you're getting ready to sign up for and do your do your brother a favor do something nice for him in the process i think this is a win-win to walk away what do you think right i agree that's a great idea how much debt do you have

i have uh 20 000 on a second mortgage to

help my kids go to college yeah so i have a mortgage yeah so i

agree with delta a second bank some of it for the rest of college that's right and you got a clean clear life out of this you guys have gone through the grieving of losing your mom together um

and i i i want it to be a clear conversation with him that i'm giving him a gift that might be worth as much as twenty thousand bucks

and and that uh that thought process has come up in our discussions but uh so i would just really want to get some advice so i appreciate it yeah i think this is a good time for generosity on your part yeah that's going to benefit everyone it's just a thought yep i couldn't agree more dave i think this is a nice move it takes the kind of takes

it off of his takes it off of his shoulders it's done i've gifted my brother i've given him an opportunity and thus doing so i'm not going to get any more money but i got 80 from mom i'm debt free except the house

it with a stroke of one check uh and still somebody got some money left

yeah and we're not tied up in some kind of real estate flip this house crap on cable tv because you know more about this than i do but it's never as simple as well it's just 20.

hey how can we help sure hi okay so my question is my question is basically and don't get mad at me dave but i think i want to lease a car

and i know you're not supposed to lease a car supposed to buy a used one in cash

but i think i can afford to lease a car and i think it's the better move for me like i'm curious what you have to say on that well you kind of know what i'm gonna say obviously don't you

yeah but maybe um well daniel i think this is where you lay out your case for dave you know what he's gonna say so why do you think it's a better deal than buying a used car okay good idea right so why i think is because

i could let's say by uh try to find a reliable used car for like a 10 or 15 000 but i personally wouldn't feel comfortable driving that around in terms of reliability because for work i'm driving sometimes two hours in the middle of nowhere i just don't want to you know risk anything i want to have a new car and 10 years from now i don't want to be driving a 10 year old car

okay so that's that's why for me that's why i think and uh i don't have in your how old i'm 23. and your house your income is what i make uh 120. okay good for you how

many miles you putting on that car

i would probably keep within the ten thousand miles a year not if you're driving a day that's where i had a problem with your math are you driving four miles an hour no but it's not it's not every day i work for myself so i'm more i'm not working every day dude you're in prison with those lease miles but so wait a minute you can't have it both ways okay

you can't have it i drive two and a half miles a day i drive two and a half hours every day so i need a reliable car but wait a minute no i don't drive two and a half hours a day i only drive ten thousand miles a year so i don't need a reliable car

occasionally i drive two and a half hours yeah frequently okay well not frequently

over 10 000 miles the occasional frequency it doesn't add up you can't daniel you can't have it both ways the math doesn't work in your discussion okay so here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing broke people drive new cars

there's two people that drive brand new cars mega millionaires and broke people these are the only two people the vast majority of new cars are broke people because they go down in value like a rock you're either going to put the miles on this fleece car you're going to blow the lease up or you're not going to put the miles on it and it's going to eat

you alive you can do what you want to do you call me there's no possible way i'm going to tell a 23 year old is smart enough to make 120 000 to go fleece a stupid car

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit dot com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality host of the king coleman show is my co-host today

tomorrow is book launch day for ken his brand new book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to to doing work you love uh is in bookstores available tomorrow be shipped tomorrow to those of you that have pre-purchased it speaking of which if you pre-order by midnight tonight you will spend 20 for the book and get a hundred dollars plus worth of goodies uh added in included in

the process and uh man pretty incredible you're gonna get resume templates guides a video course the audio book the ebook

all of it included uh all for just purchasing the 20 book why because pre-orders matter towards the best seller list and we bribe you into pre-ordering because you're going to get the book anyway you might as well get all the goodies so go ahead and order it right now at ramseysolutions.com while you have the chance last day to do that tomorrow is launch day uh lots of media

and stuff happening this week for you you're gonna be really busy yeah we're excited we're getting the word out and uh it's uh it's we would have never known that the scenario that we sit in now this great resignation people considering moving coming out of the pandemic moving more than they've ever moved before in their work because they know that there's more there they want a bigger paycheck

but they also want to do work that has more values attached to it so it's very exciting time to see what's going to happen as the world shifts certainly the american workforce is shifting tremendously and so we're excited about it going to be talking about it anywhere we can possibly talk about it yeah so if you're one of those 55 or so thinking about changing jobs listen

you don't want to just change jobs you don't want to go from the frying pan of the fire more money and i hate my job in a toxic environment yeah you need to be careful what you wish for right and so from paycheck to purpose making as much or more money than you make now and get meaning yeah this is the goal you don't have to take a 50 pay cut to be a happy camper yeah matter of fact that's not going to make

you a happy camper money doesn't make you happy that's not the point but the point is you need to get after this so hey paycheck to purpose at ramseysolutions.com

get it while you can today with all the goodies attached daniel's going to start off this hour in knoxville hi daniel how are you hi dave hi ken thanks for taking my call i'm doing well great how can we help um so i have a baby step four question for y'all

um so in order to maintain that 25 ratio

across fund categories in my ira

i feel like i'm only ever thinking money into the international fund the basis in that fund is is much higher than the others and it's growing right so every time i deposit money it's always into that international fund because it's formed not as well as the rest is that still the correct way to invest or am i interpreting y'all's advice incorrectly

way to go you're really paying attention the international category of the four categories sucks i mean it's bad it's ugly and so you notice that that's a good thing and what you're trying to do is rebalance your portfolio with your monthly contributions that's right i would i would not do that

i'm fine if a category's sucking if it gets a little bit out of balance because i'm going to end up with less in a sucky category

okay until it comes roaring back and then when it comes rolling back i got so pissed off about this international category underperforming because i've given the same information the same and i personally invest that way my personal 401k is like we're talking about it's 25 into each category period and i have i don't go back and rebalance some people go back and rebalance every year or two and if you want to that's fine it's not the end of the world but you're not going to usually see a huge change on

uh your results if you do now what i did

do daniel just as a side note because you noticed something that a lot of people haven't really brought up is that i i considered maybe we need to change our advice because that category's so bad maybe we just need to go third third third and drop the international because for it's like a 20-year run of suck i mean it's

it's bad and so what i did though i went back with my elp or my smart master pro and i

had him run a whole bunch of scenarios and i told him what i was thinking about i said not only am i thinking about changing mind i'm thinking about changing because i'm not going to change mine and not tell y'all okay i think the market's moved i think this international category is bad i was ready to go there and we ran the scenarios out 14 different ways and they found all kinds of anomalies and all

kinds of things in the marketplace because i always look back 30 40 years i don't look back just three years or even 15 years right i want to look back i want to see how this market moves how it reacts and they said okay over 40 years here's what it would look like if you had the international in your mix at 25 going in

no rebalancing uh back to your original

question and here's what it would look like if you didn't have the international and even though the international sucked it has offset the other times that the domestic market is turned down it's shot up because it runs inverse of the other markets usually uh enough times that i

actually end up with more money with the sucky category in there which is weird so i left it i left it in my portfolio and i did not change my recommendations after running out actual hypotheticals they're called in that world and running it out that way but yeah you i would not recommend to do what you're doing uh it's not the end of the world if you do

but i think you're working too hard to get a lame horse to run and so uh throwing that extra money on that international so i just put 25 on everything and if you want to rebalance or move some around a little bit every if it gets way out of whack that'd be fine but uh i think over a long period of time the thing will probably pretty naturally rebalance or get close to

it a

long period being 20 30 years not two years so that that's the thing i have never done what you're doing i've always done 25 each period a fourth each i've not

done it not rebalanced with the contribution rate in order to get it to catch up um if you do that you're probably going to be okay but i think you'll make more money the way i'm talking about than the way you're doing it just tonight i think mathematically that's the way it's going to work if if when you say to him okay if you do that it's fine

i don't think you're going to win and you explain why but if someone was going to do that what would that allocation look like instead of 25 well what he's doing is he's putting more than 25 into the international because it's dipping to try to gas try to catch it try to have it catch up get the balance to catch up because he's trying to get his balances to be 25 each

so it just depends on how long you've been doing it and how far in the hole that account is i mean you could put 90 percent into the international and for catch up if you had to you know got it but i i again i'm not going that route

um i'm just going to keep plugging along here here's the interesting thing the fact that you're looking at this and you're paying attention you're using good critical thinking skills and you're constantly investing and you're constantly investing and you're constantly investing that's what we found in all the data that causes people to win more than the technicalities the technicalities don't end up mattering as much as paying attention and continuing paying attention and continuing that's what we found with all the data on the millionaires

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ken coleman

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open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money this is the ramsey show ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today aaron is

with us in charlotte north carolina hi erin welcome

to the ramsay show hi david ken how are y'all today great how can we help yeah so my question is i i

i could apply for a position within my company that i'm working at now but i'm not sure if that's the best idea for me and i'm hoping that y'all could as unbiased could help me determine that give you a little bit of background i've been at this company for almost five years and i was promised growth opportunities whenever i was hired unfortunately that seemed to be uh has seemed to be a lie

the growth track that i thought i was on uh doesn't appear to be a viable track for a growing so i was wondering what i can and you might say about that okay so in your honest opinion have you been able to do everything that you feel like you could do to be the best that you can be in the contribution you've made over that five years

and you still feel like no track for growth no opportunities have come your way uh yes and no there's definitely the

potential where i could apply for this new position and it would be the growth opportunity that i would want however i'm being told that uh that the work

that i've been doing over the last several years do not qualify me for this position as i was originally led to believe well whether you were led to believe that or not the reality is they're telling you that the work you're doing now hasn't qualified you for this other position so it doesn't seem like that's an absolute possibility so i think going after something like that where they've told

you your leadership has told you you're not qualified it's like me trying to go outside and dunk a basketball tonight on a 10-foot rim it's just not going to happen and so i it feels like to me we've got to start short by the way and can't jump i've got the double hurdle there so i i understand the want to

but the there's the leadership has said you're not qualified for it and i think you're setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment that's unnecessary when i think it might be time for you to look elsewhere and i think really it's about getting clear aaron let me ask you this okay so if i understand you right you're coming in you came into this job and you were told

if you do x y and z that you'll be able to uh move on to this type of a position now you've done x y and z and now they're coming back and saying that's no not true what we told you was wrong uh or what you understood was wrong that you didn't do x y and z so uh or even if you do x y and z you're not qualified is that what you're telling me

because you've seen the way you the way you've structured your sentences two times you've two different times in this conversation it sounded like you think you work for liars well i we i will say i definitely have a new manager and i think that this new manager wants me to apply for this new position however i i feel like i have if

there's no chance of getting it why does your new manager want you to apply for it that's my thing is i don't understand

the thought process behind my managers and i've tried to get some clarification and i'm still uncertain uh coworkers are

saying you should just apply just apply because there's no harm in it and i understand that but at the same time it's causing me more frustration and emotional and mental harm than it is doing me good trying to fight for something that i can't get right well then don't do it and you also have some concerns so confused i don't know why you can't get it your manager told you to apply for it he's not going to tell you to apply for something you can't get

i honestly i can't tell you why dave it's been a it's i've been asking for cross-training opportunities to get a position like this for at least three out of the four to five years that i've been here so why would your manager tell you to apply for something that you have zero chance of getting that's not logical they haven't told me specifically to apply for it but i i

just get the sense that they would like for me too okay but didn't you all so do you have a sense that they think you're not qualified do they tell you you're not qualified they specifically told there's two positions available one is a

a lower level position than the actual position that i'm looking for and that position both are currently available one i think she would like for me to apply for the lower position but she has told me that i'm not eligible that i'm not qualified for the higher

position all right but do you even want the higher position let's just remove all this for a second all this confusion back and forth do you even want the position if you were qualified would you be jumping for it yeah actually whenever i begin to apply for the position that i currently have i originally applied for that position and they asked for me to apply that for

the position that i currently have okay so i've been asking for that position ever since i've been there oh i get i think there's a pattern here do you feel that you're qualified on paper for this role i think so well no no no i don't want to think so i mean like do you know if you look at this position out in the marketplace like if

you went somewhere else you could make a case when you're being interviewed that you should be able to get this job done so you feel you're qualified i believe so okay i think it's time to start looking today let's start looking let's test the market let's find out there's a there's a gap here between you feel like well dave's right i feel like you feel like they're dishonest we're not we're not saying you're wrong we're just saying it's all over

you you feel like they've been dishonest with you they're not giving you an opportunity we've got previous management saying you're not qualified new person comes in i think she there's too much this stuff going on getting your extreme job with dishonest people is not your dream job yeah that's my thought process as well dude yeah so you move on yeah if that's if that's that's why i was asking where your head was on that issue

because you know if you feel like that because they're going to cut your knees out from under you if they're going to catch you right if that's who they are uh if that's if that's the real conclusion that you've come to now you beat around the bush in this conversation you've not been clear with us we've had to pull this out of you so keep in mind

i mean i don't know whether you're trying to be nice or what you're trying to do but you know bottom line is the issue here is you don't trust your leadership and that means it's time to move yeah listen folks when you feel there's a lid on you whether you know all the reasons or not start looking elsewhere because it's only a matter of time before you become bitter

and then this thing can turn toxic on your end and you end up burning a bridge and hurting your future because you're just sitting around kind of e-warring you know you got to move on and i think i'd start looking today again this is such a great time to look and this is where we find out by the way if if we are qualified yeah if you go out

there and can't get the job then maybe they were right that's right they weren't dishonest they were just being honest they were telling you the truth you're not qualified we've got to find the common denominator in this situation yeah is it him that'll do it or is it leadership go do some interviews if you don't get the job then you'll know that's what's going on so at least hypothetically you'll know yeah

so um yeah the other thing you can do is have some very clear precise language not like you used with us uh discussions with some leaders

in the organization and go listen i really feel like this is what i was promised i feel like i've lived up to it so i'm really struggling with why i

shouldn't get this position can you show me what i need to do to be able to follow through on what i thought we were doing and that's a very clear concise

set of words yeah and you don't have to accuse somebody of lying with to do that you can just challenge out the situation say i need to know why it is that after five years and having done these things that that i'm not able to do the thing that i thought that i signed up for to get to see this is very important folks make sure you hear what dave said most weak leaders they're just weak

i mean doesn't mean they're bad people but weak leaders don't communicate clearly they're afraid of confrontation so by being honest like dave just described that kind of very clear very clear put the ball in their court and if you give them a clear question and they don't give you clear back there's your answer this is weak leadership they're never going to tell me what i need to hear

because we need to hear it but it takes us being honest what kind of value do i need to add to be qualified yes and when i do that then what you're saying is then i get the role right and if if they look at you and go one of the things you have to learn is clear communication it might be it could be that could be

the comeback you know yeah so um it's a possibility so that's the kind of stuff but there's nothing wrong with testing the waters and going and interviewing especially if you've lost faith in the integrity of the organization that's really when it's time to move on this is the ramsey show

[Music] [Applause]

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[Music]

ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage

mike and christy are with us hey guys how are you great dave how about you good to have you where do you guys live matt menville tennessee oh just over the hill just over the hill well thanks for joining us here guys great and how much debt have you all paid off fifty six thousand nine hundred and eighty four dollars in the past 18 months wow that was quick and your range of income during that time a hundred thousand between the two cool what do you all do for a living i'm a tool maker in a plastic injection company she's a kindergarten kindergarten teacher at eastside elementary all right fun very fun so what kind of debt was your 57 000 oh a lot of fun credit cards truck jeep house kind of normal that's normal oh you paid off your house yeah in the 57 000.

wow wow okay very cool looking at weird people yeah okay so you had normal debt yes and and

have been going along how long y'all been married 24 years okay and you look up 18 months ago and decided to do this crazy ramsay stuff what happened um well actually my mother had given me a book in 92 when i got my first home and uh

she's always preached to me about saving and working and not being in debt and paying for cash for things and of course i ignored all of it and had a lot of fun and running up credit card bills about about 10 000 in that and um

you felt like you didn't have i didn't have a way out um you feel trapped you smell you feel smothered um but then it uh you started seeing progress you know and then 18 months ago you know we we decided that you know i'm tired of this and let's let's get out of it we started following your baby steps and i was marking off each day we started with

the lowest and kept marking them off and just visually seeing that just made a difference for us and then we printed off your little bricks on the house where you mark off the bricks and course that helped us keep going and and we have two children in college too so we did all of this while we're paying for college too and two others over here wow where are

they in college um one is at utc and one is at tennessee tech and thankfully they did the community college thing for two years in both affordable schools that they're in for your school yeah so you're not yes you can go crazy on that yeah so that's good the scholarships so in 1992

your mother gave you one of my books the little blue one yeah it has to be because that's the first first year i said that's the one i won't sign i want one mom that's that's the uh that thing's a classic i mean 92 is the first year that it came out i saw those out of the trunk of my car just like that car over there oh see that's vintage vintage i like that i'm slow reader

yeah that was slow on the uptick but yeah just took 30 years to get around to it that's awesome but then okay so what happened 18 months ago that was the wake up call that made you get so intense

well i i was really pushing it i'll be honest and i just wanted him to get on board with me and uh i would we would just be very intentional about our spending and i kind of started doing the minimalist thing where less is more and

that helped out a whole lot and it wasn't easy because i had a bump in the road i had a stage one breast cancer diagnosis last year in august so that kind of set us back a little bit but i went through the radiation treatments and we just kept persevering and we're here now and your cancer free now cancer-free now it's been a year that free cancer free what a year it was like for us the budget

working on the budget that was probably the hardest part for me because when you put it on paper and you see i mean there was actually a few years back when the kids were just born not just the twins but nolan and katie

i was working she was at home with the kids and it's a lot of stress and you're asking for overtime and you're just trying to break even because at 40 hours there was a time that you know 94 a week i was in the hole at 40 hours a week and that's a lot of stress on my dad and a marriage in the home and and it just builds on you and and as we the past 18 months you see that

light at the end of that tunnel when one gets paid off you get the credit card paid off you get the trip to paid off you get the truck paid off you get and it just starts snowballing just like you know it's like you teach you know you see that hope and uh it's i didn't know

how much stress i really had

because it'd been there for so long yeah and once you start getting to the end of it it's like man what can i do i mean it's like i look at everything totally different now it's um what what can i do you know instead of what i can i can't do it's like i told my wife instead of buying on time i want to live on my time now

i don't i don't want i don't want to just struggle and i like it and we want to give god all the glory because and this none of this would be possible without him we definitely put him first in our lives and we're here now because of him yeah we i mean we've been blessed with with with health and things that bumps comes along but it's still was still worked out

and uh again getting to work through a pandemic nothing you know i didn't have to worry about any of that it could still work and still go and still do and it's just been a blessing i mean it's pretty cool yeah so christy i gotta go back in the story because i think i'm missing something here and i want to make sure i'm catching on what's happening okay

so we go along and about 18 months ago you somehow connected to us fresh

um i had been listening to you oh you had been listening for a while several years you just kind of turned up the old heat a little bit in your sweet little way yes and i was listening to your daughter too and um okay and you know okay so you just kept turning it up a little bit turning it up because we did try this several years back yes and um it just i

gave up yeah we weren't on board and we weren't intentional with it so we just became intentional and this paid off

look at mike he's he's going through active recovery right there yeah it's the truth that is the truth yeah i could see it hey mike i do want to ask you because you shared some really gut-wrenching stuff there and i think a lot of people feel very all right what's it like on the other side and i mean i want you to now drive now that you're free

i want you to describe because you said you didn't know what it felt like because you'd had it so long so now on the other side what is the positive emotional and physical peace that you have you're not trapped i mean and what i mean by that is i mean i love my job i mean i've been a tool maker all my life in my working life

and you know i've been there since 92 you know for coming up on 30 years but you feel um i don't i don't owe anybody anything you know i can give we have some very dear friends you know lost a daughter to cancer during all this you know almost well not a year ago but i want to help and i want to help i want you know

if it's just giving something to saint jude or if it's just doing i just want to help yeah and and those opportunities you can you you see you you see somebody that's alone and eating at a restaurant i i i i'm not a secret's out i guess now but i try to i want to buy their lunch and just let them not know and just go just

the little things you know nothing big but just you can just do those things and not worry you can be a little you're a little kinder you're a little nicer it's a little sweeter at home i mean because i mean the family's growing and and we're just kind of off and running and you wanna you can step and watch and you know i i had uh uh covered in in august

and i missed the month of work but guess what there was a savings and i didn't have to worry about it you know and it's just those types of things that you see it working and it's great and it's yeah and you brought two of your daughters with you what are their names christian and kerrigan okay and they're they're the twins they're twins okay how old are they 15. all right so here comes some more college yeah i like it but now we're ready we're ready game off we're ready i'm so proud of y'all congratulations thank you very well done what's this house worth you paid off um probably about 350.

awesome on our way to being baby steps millionaires then that's welding nice well you're right there you're going to be there for you know it well done you guys we got a copy of the legacy journey for you copy a total money makeover maybe you can give it away to somebody and they'll read it before 1992. yes we hope to help others definitely i love it all right count it down gang 57 000 paid

off in 18 months making 100 a year count it down let's hear a debt free scream three two one we're dead

that's gold right there man yeah that is

cool there's so much in that

so much going on that's fun mike might

get in trouble for getting ahead of the count there he might he might you never know this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day philippians 3 13 and 14 one thing i do forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead i press on toward the goal to win

the prize for which god has called me heavenward in christ jesus serena williams said don't let anyone work harder than you do that's important right there guys it's

almost time for christmas it's going to sneak up on you but for some of you what should be a time of joy tradition togetherness is stress you're stressing over how you're going to pay for presents the big grocery bills the stuff doesn't have to be that way when you have a plan you have confidence instead of stress and when everything else seems out of control financial peace university will show

you how to put that plan in place you're going to learn step by step how to get out of debt save money build wealth be outrageously generous you put the plan into practice by budgeting with every dollar it syncs up easily with your bank you can track your spending you can finally see where your money goes you get all of this with a ramsey plus membership and that's

the only way to get it you don't have to live through a stressed out christmas make 2022 the year you start winning because right now you start a free trial of ramsey plus plus by texting trial 233

789 a free trial by texting trial two

three three seven eight nine kevin is in orlando hi kevin

welcome to the ramsay show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up so um my wife and i um we have a baby on the way we just purchased a house together i'm trying to decide whether my previous

house which i had paid off whether i should throw all that at my mortgage or

invest that you know in the market in some kind of safe conservative mutual funds well uh you're debt-free other than the homes uh we have a car payment but just going gonna pay that off uh once we get the new money from the house okay so the the the original house you're talking about is sold or is going to be sold and how much are you going how much are you going to receive from it um about 550.

550 000 clear

yes sir okay and how much do you owe in your car

um just under 60 000. and what do you owe on your home uh 800 000. and what's your household income uh just about 400 000 a year wow way to

go dude what do you guys do for a living thank you um we're both in healthcare okay congratulations very well done great careers okay um well what we have found

is that the first one to five million dollars of net worth that people get is typically from a paid for house and their retirement accounts in 401ks

403 b's iras our baby step number one is save a thousand dollars you've obviously done that two is to be debt-free everything with the house we got a plan to pay off the sixty thousand dollar car which is going to leave us 490 000 with an 800 000 mortgage baby

step three is saving three to six months

of expenses how much non-retirement saving and investing do you currently have uh just under nine hundred thousand

non-retirement yes mutual sorry um money market account and

uh savings okay uh what i would do if i woke up in your shoes is i would pay off my house 100 okay now you're sitting there with a paid for house a four hundred thousand dollar income you have an emergency fund set aside of three to six months of expenses and now there's nothing left to do but build wealth and be outrageously generous but no house payment is going to get you there and here's what you're going to find okay you're in a high stress environment

that is emotionally and intellectually fatiguing agreed correct you're going to feel something that you don't anticipate that your intellect doesn't tell you you're gonna feel when you pay off this house you're gonna feel a release a sense of peace because it's like having a backache and you've had it so long you don't even realize it's there and you don't think about it but when it's gone you're like wow

i just got set free that's pretty incredible so um that's what i'm gonna do i'm gonna pay off that house that's the way i have lived personally and once i got there it was fairly easy to become very very wealthy with that kind of income and not a payment in the world plus you don't have a care in the world in the middle of weirdness and dude you've experienced some weirdness in healthcare in

the last 24 months agreed yes sir yeah and and so one less thing you know i have two i've had all kinds of stress around the business and trying to keep this thousand people employed and revenues going up revenues going down entire areas of revenue disappearing and trying to run this thing but i never had the stress of worrying about a foreclosure i never had the stress of worrying about

if i personally was going to be left out in the cold because it was all paid for there's a release there the borrower's slave to the lender and when you're 100 debt free there's a freedom that's going to cause you to prosper yet even more changes your decision making paradigm it really does and and you're right this at this stage where they are at this is the right move

it sets them up for their future serious serious good position you've gotten yourself into well done catherine's in london hi catherine welcome to the ramsay show

hi dave hi ken thank you very much for taking my call and this is my first time calling in so i'm thrilled to have got through well we're honored to have you how can we help um okay so my question um

so essentially i'm in a job that i don't

love um but i have the equivalent of about 25 27

000 worth of debt that i need to pay off my job is well paid and i make about

98 000 equivalent um before tax um then i

i i want out and but then i i've got this debt that i need to pay i have an eight-year-old son he's in private school um that i'm paying for um and my question essentially is how do i plan an exit from a job that i don't love yeah well do you like it

okay well a couple things don't walk into this with the assumption that if you change jobs that you have to take a big pay cut and we're not going to jump off of a cliff here we don't want to see any interruption in income so catherine if there's no interruption in income and you can step into something else that is much more enjoyable that doesn't have all

the factors at play that's going on with what's going on now you wouldn't even be calling us you'd be like okay and so let's let's start with the assumption that we're not going to have an interruption in income okay that's first but the question is do you know what you would love to do or is there a job that you are very intrigued by a career path that you've always wanted to pursue um to be honest i'm not sure i'm i'm 45 um

and i kind of feel like that's so i work in healthcare and i've worked in healthcare for 25 years okay um

and i have been looking at other roles that are within my field but i quite and

you know it's um it's quite a thriving industry at the moment but every role that i come across i just i don't even bother to read the whole job specs but i'm just not interested and i just i don't know if it's because you know if it's a combination of

um part of the reason why i don't love my job okay all right so let me know

or the pandemic i kind of feel like i don't want to do this anymore yeah well you have to listen to that but here's what i want you to do you've got some debt you make really good money and you've got some debt that you can pay off pretty quickly if you stay focused so for right now catherine i want you to stay in this job i know

you don't love it i know you want out but let's change our attitude the attitude is hey i'm grateful for this job because it's taking care of me my eight-year-old son and it's allowing me to pay off debt and i'm going to stay put until i've got something to step into so that's our focus so here's what i want to do kelly let's give kathryn a link to

the get clear career assessment that we sell here ramsey solutions kencoleman.com would you take the assessment it's going to point out a whole lot to you that you've never seen before and then let's come up with a clear path hang on we're going to give you the brand new from paycheck to purpose because it's the field guide to the mountain that the assessment will point out both of

these tools catherine will show you the direction that you need to go walk through it stage by stage don't interrupt your income and you're going to be fine that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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## 208. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 13, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

[Music]

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice george camel ramsey personality is my co-host today we're answering your questions about your life and your money you will know george's voice from several of our podcasts the borrowed future podcast which millions of you have downloaded now the new fine print podcast which is uh wow it's come out of the gate like a super popular thing because it is very well done and of course he's

the host of the entree leadership podcast so fine print is uh has dropped another episode this week we got 10 episodes total and this was like number seven right yeah yeah the dirty truth about credit scores that's one you've been railing against for years dave and so i just wanted to once and for all you can send this to your friends and go just listen to this listen to

this 25-minute episode on credit scores to get the skinny yeah because you we've done one on bitcoin it was very good listen to it i listened to the one on uh the uh miles and points oh

credit card that was well done well done chuck e cheese that was a good chuck e cheese best analogy i could come up with i'm well played well played because it's beautiful too i mean it's the exact same thing yeah it's all it's all psychological sticky hands gamification sticky hands you gotta have them open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five as we answer your questions about your life and your money shane is with us shane is in indianapolis hi shane how are you

hey dave i'm doing well how about yourself better than we deserve what's up well great um my wife and i are seeing a move in the next one to three years

i'm debt free other than my house i owe 115 000 on on the house right now

and i have 125 000 in cash and then i

also have twenty thousand dollars of an emergency fund um thanks so i wonder just do i pay out the house now or knowing that we're probably going to move you know in the next one to three years do i continue on the path that i'm on of just stacking away cash or i'll pay it off and then you can stack more cash because you don't have a house payment yeah yep okay that's impressive how did

you save up 125 thousand dollars i'm just curious um we just kind of had a wildly important goal of my my wife staying at home and

um we thought the best path of doing this um you know is to pay off the house and to remain debt free so early on we started off um we took your financial peace university before we got married and we've kind of uh just always lived by your rules and principles you're doing extremely well i'm very proud of you let's back into why i said to do that okay you're gonna move anyway obviously

you know that when you sell the house they're gonna give you a check so you're not losing the money you're not spending the money you're not consuming the money it's just changing positions which asset is parked in right and so you're doing away with a mortgage and your interest rate is higher than your savings rate on your savings account so you're mathematically going to win a tiny tiny bit

there but it's not really worth doing it for that what will happen is this and this is what i it took me probably 15 or 20 years of doing this before i really gave credit to this because i'm a math nerd i wanted everything to be a math thing but here's a weird thing you make biff different decisions with a paid for house yeah you just do

because you're your head space you're where you are spiritually where you are relationally changes and so i'm not saying you'll stay because it's paid for i'm saying you're gonna kind of feel um

very confident edging on cocky as a

seller because i don't have to sell it

and um i'm you know i'm going to get a price and there's nothing pushing this there's no there's no uh i just don't have to be in a hurry because i don't have any payments also you're going to be able to pile up cash like a crazy man because you don't have the house payment anymore that works too and you're obviously very good at that congratulations again i'm very impressive uh but but you know even stuff like uh you know

another wave of covid comes through or uh uh or just a wave of political stupidity comes through which seems to be coming in the tsunami level these days but the uh uh but you know if you just keep this you know something comes through all these external variables that we don't have control over our spirits and our decision making

is much cleaner and wiser when we're sitting in a paid for house than when we're sitting with 115 120 000 in the bank and not a paid for house it's just weird and it does it's there's no math to it it's just a the borrower is slave to the lender and the slave when he no longer has a master is known as free

and it just you know think about a slave and how their mentality changes and that's a there is something to that that is beyond just the apparent mathematics yeah absolutely and not only that but you're saving on interest you're going to pay to this bank you're freeing up the payment and you said at the beginning you have this wildly important goal so that your wife can stay home

and so if you can do that earlier now with a paid for house this is fantastic news well she's probably already done it i mean it's just incredible very very well done sharp young couple and i'm glad that uh what we do at ramsey was able to add value to somebody like that's life yeah very more

of that i want to see that happen all over the yeah i mean what problems to have i have the money in the bank to pay off my house should i do it this is a there's a better much better question than i'm four payments behind yes how do i stop the foreclosure yeah because we have done detailed research and 100 of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage ironclad data it's just straight up there's no question about it

so there is risk associated with it and we just do not perceive the risk because we all understand that housing is such a good investment real estate's such a stable investment by and large and so we don't assign any emotionally and spiritually any risk to the process now shane wasn't pushing back but some of your you know dave ramsey lost his mind he told that 32 year old guy pay off his house

he should have been telling me no no dave's not lost his mind the instructions i gave him were the shortest distance between where he is now and wealthy and we know this from the millionaire data yeah and we're seeing this where a lot of people have a stack of cash and they go well dave doesn't make sense to pay off the house i could invest that the market's doing

so well right now it is but those people have never felt the feeling of having a paid for house without mortgage payment and here's the thing too if you don't think there's an emotional element to it just reverse the process what if you were sitting with um ten thousand dollars in the bank instead of 125 000 and your house was paid for would you go borrow 115 on your house in order to put

it in the bank can have 125 in the bank with a mortgage reverse the process and i bet i mean i i would say 98 percent of the time i ask the question in reverse like that people just go well no but it's a trick question because it tricks you to thinking with your heart not just your head and your heart's where you measure risk your math where

you do math oh that was good your head's where you do math your heart's where you measure risk and you just kind of you have an almost a visceral reaction to that no i wouldn't do that but well it's the same thing yeah you get excited about seeing that money grow in an investment but you don't take into account the risk when you do that but when

you talk about borrowing money on a paid for house you feel the risk for the first time yeah all of a sudden all of your end quotes air quotes sophisticated math goes out the window yep yeah i say air quotes because it's not sophisticated because you left out risk and sophisticated math would include risk this is the ramsey show

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today he is also the host of the ever popular podcast the fine print be sure and check it out ramsey network's producing all kinds of wonderful podcasts these days and we've got a little documentary coming out tomorrow it's big dave it's not little nothing little about it and i'm telling you it's a big deal i've been doing media all over

the nation they're wearing me out around here and i'm about to do about 20 more hits tomorrow on it to promote it and it is uh it's gonna be mammoth i mean i'm so excited about it it's so well done borrowed future how student loans are killing the american dream the epic failure of the student loan program you watch this with you're gonna go every teenager in america needs to see

this and every parent of every teenager needs to see see this so they grow a backbone and don't allow their kids to make some of the mistakes that people make all the time 45 million americans in student loan debt that's a lot wow it's crazy yeah i just talked to seth fratman the other day who's featured in the documentary and he was giving me the update on where things are at two years later

because we interviewed him back in 2019 and let me tell you it's it's dismal not a lot has changed no the hope that people had uh they're still hoping they're waiting with baited breath for forgiveness and new legislation and the new president and is he going to do what he said he was going to do and we just want people to be free and take to take control for themselves yeah

if you wait on washington to bless your home you're going to be a loser your whole life your home has to be blessed by you and your hands and your work and your decisions and your critical thinking skills that's what's going to happen that's real so yeah these are the people that get out of student loan debt and the you know the public student loan forgiveness program 98 of those that apply for forgiveness

denied people paid 10 years work a job that wouldn't work and 10 years later 98 tonight that's called lying

if if anything else had that pass fail right i mean i wouldn't exist today yeah

that's called lying to your constituents when the federal government makes you a promise that 98 of the people don't cash in on can't cash in on are denied dedication on it's a lie is what that is it's just it's it's criminal is what it is it's like trying to cancel comcast it's nearly impossible very few people are able to withstand well have you ever tried to cancel a discover card it's not it's right

there next to it yeah that's it that's the truth right there man so anyway check it out apple tv google play amazon prime and borrowed future dot com if you are a teacher and you would like to show this documentary to your teens or pre-teens

uh it's free for you as a teacher to show to your classroom we're not going to charge you a dime or college even i don't care just tell me you're a teacher go to borrowed future.com and we will set you up with that if you're a sunday school teacher and you want to show it to your teen for teenagers and you want to show it to them

i we want to we want to cause a holy ruckus with this it's time it's time someone stood up and said this is wrong the actors are bad actors there's so many villains it was hard to tell the story yeah a good story has one villain and one hero and it is very difficult it's a terrible story this one's it's like it's like a bad saturday morning cartoon that got out of control yeah

i mean it's just it's a bad thing but it's it's a you won't be able to put it down people that have watched it in the previews oh man you can't unsee it at the end you have to make a decision you have to go what do i believe about this am i going to support the system exactly kimberly is in san antonio hi kimberly welcome to

the ramsey show hi dave how are you doing today better than i deserve how can we help i'm a little nervous right now it's okay we've never lost a page okay thank you thank you um so we we're an active duty uh family

thank you for your service thank you i appreciate it um i just have some questions all my questions are related up to our military lifestyle

uh i guess my first question is going to be about the service members civil relief act um how we can use that in our advantage um in my for us personally we don't uh we

have zero percent interest in all of our credit cards due to that act and how can we use that in a in our advantage that would be uh my first question um i can go into the others but i really want to tackle these well the biggest thing there is uh that the service relief act gives us two things one is you've got the zero percent that you're able to say okay 100 of what i pay on this credit credit card debt goes on the principal so it's a real opportunity uh

while apparently someone is not only active duty but deployed into a combat zone right

correct yeah but um yeah it has varieties but we have been

participating for a few years already okay then you're in there good so yeah so 100 of what you pay on these credit cards is going to get rid of them so chop them up and let's list them smallest to largest as far as the debt rate goes and attack them with a vengeance the other part of the act that sometimes folks have to use and we've used in financial coaching with the military for years is that if you are behind on something

uh like a behind on a car payment or behind on rent or behind on a house payment the creditor cannot foreclose or repossess on you because you're falling to that act uh until you guys get back and everybody's you know not deployed into a combat zone and get back active and so forth but that's probably not gonna apply to you but the whole thing is when you got zero percent instead of eighteen percent

you know let's take advantage of that and use that extra that same thing with those those of you sitting on student loans right now you have zero percent so let's let's just use this time not to sit around and twiddle our thumbs and go oh we don't have to be in a hurry we have zero percent no this is get in a hurry time yeah and that's what we're seeing

it reminded me of the student loan extended relief where it's zero percent people go well i'm going to take advantage of this but the real way to take advantage of it is to pay off all your debt and get rid of it so i don't know how much debt kimberly has on this or if she's just saying how do i take advantage of this card going forward

there is no way to take advantage of debt that's not really a gift yeah it takes advantage of you felicity is in newark new jersey hi felicity how are you great thanks for taking my call sure what's up so my husband and i are debt-free we're currently about 30 000 into renting to

own it's an interest-free contract with the option to buy it back excuse me to back out or to buy out at any time um if you're a close family friend of ours who's now looking to close his rental business and while he's obviously still willing to carry through on our agreement contract he approached us with the option of avoiding the agreement we have to instead purchase the house for a dollar both him

and ourselves using his lawyer and then essentially draw up a second agreement that was basically a personal loan between him and ourselves for the remainder of what we owe him on the rent to end this would also be interest-free but um since we're doing him a favor as well as paying the lawyer fees he would deduct our total amount by like 10 to 15 000 but my husband

and i are just a little nervous we're not sure if that's possible or smart to do and what kind of tax transfer issues we would run into since it would look like we paid a dollar for the house when really we didn't wow you're not going to run into any problems uh you may need to pay more recording fees than than you would pay on a dollar

because that is going to be weird uh you may want to give assign an actual value because you're in most states i don't know how jersey works but in most states when you when you record the deed for the house you're taxed on the amount of the sale at that

time the warranty deed okay which is your title all right and so you're probably not going to want to try to pull that off at a dollar that's going to create problems for you but other than that um i this sounds a little um

why does he not want a lien on the house why is he making it a personal loan

it's just a close family friend i mean he doesn't know but there's no point there's no point that's just weird

it's not like it's not really doing you a favor and it leaves him in a very very weak position doesn't hurt you your position's fine

see if you don't pay and he's got a lien on the house he could foreclose on the house you don't pay in this situation he just has to sue you like it's an unsecured debt exactly yeah there's no harm in what you're outlining i would have an attorney draft it all pay be willing to pay some attorneys fees to make sure this is done the way it's described here but um

it feels like he's hiding something from someone else is what it feels like he's trying to keep his money off the grid somehow because of course when you record when you have a mortgage it's recorded at the courthouse a personal loan just between you and him there's no public record of it so it sounds like this guy's trying to get off the grid or something i don't know be careful because it's an unusual transaction so i don't know that there's a rat but there's hints of rats here

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage adam and olivia are with us hey guys how are you great how are you dave better than we deserve george hey hey george where do you guys live uh verona new york cool welcome to nashville and all the way here to do a debt-free screen how much do you pay off 172 630. way to go and how long did that take 27 months all right and your range of income during that time 126 000 to 190 000. wow

nice jump in 27 months what do you guys do for a living i am a maintenance and facilities engineer at aerospace company and i'm a project manager for a commercial millwork company okay so how does your income go up seventy thousand sixty five thousand bucks during twenty seven months change jobs you got new jobs both of you yes oh wow what precipitated that uh wasn't happy where

he was just wanted more money oh yeah and it was there so we're gonna go get it correct absolutely i like it good for you guys what kind of debt was the hundred and seventy three thousand we had uh we had a wide range we had credit cards student loans personal loans we had uh some medical

debt some uh previous marriage debt and uh oh yeah we uh paid off our house our house whoa look at the weird people how old are you guys i'm 30. 37. and a paid for house you are so weird i love it what's this house worth uh right now right around 200 000.

you own it baby you own it it's yours yeah we originally bought it about seven years ago for 40 000.

excellent job wow so you just plugged into the podcast or what yes watched a lot of them watch a lot of youtube videos we we just went went to town on watching you yeah about a half an hour commute each way um so that was all it was on the car i love it well we are honored thank you i'm glad we added value you guys are incredible well done i'm proud of

you who was your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you i would say michelle was probably one of the biggest cheerleaders you're you're a financial advisor financial advisor our parents are obviously super proud of us and um our oldest son aiden loved to see us color

in our chart every week and was so happy and cheering us on and excited to get to that next line yeah what made you guys plow through this so quickly i mean you have a great income but most people would go you know we'll we'll get this thing done but you decided to do it in just over two years we sold a lot we we

did so a lot uh just running the numbers through excel spreadsheets i was like i think we could do this and we just put our minds through indebted we took a lot of side jobs uh like she said we sold off a lot of stuff i sold my corvette a porsche a corvette and a porsche so you said you know what it's worth it i'm gonna sacrifice get rid of some of these toys and i can have all the toys later on exactly wow that's big deal

what did the porsche and the corvette sell for uh not as much as you think uh the one they were both fixer-uppers and they were just gonna be projects and i just never got around to actually doing anything with them okay so they were actually gonna be a money drain correct because of the if a project car they you could spend some money on that exactly wow wow okay all of

this sacrifice you're working like crazy you're selling everything you're in the wood shop making your own cabinets all this sacrifice you've been busting it for 27 months was it worth it very much so and it's hard to get out of that mindset it was hard to to say hey we're gonna we're gonna put this money aside just to travel down here for this about i mean we

we knew we wanted this the whole time and so we made it happen yeah when you bust through the end of it it's like okay what now because it feels like i have to slow down it's kind of weird isn't it yeah yeah we enjoy watching our savings account go up our our retirement account go up our 401ks our roth iras everything

and it's kind of hard watching any of it go yeah but still working hard to get that house finished oh yeah yeah you'll get there it's going to be amazing well done you guys very well done excellent excellent job so what do you tell people the key to getting out of that is is track track drag just like you said but put a name on every single dollar just uh just keep track of everything you spend and don't be afraid to ask why

why why do we have to spend this do we really have to do we really need this working together being on the same page yeah you guys do seem there's a you can just almost an air of unity yeah i mean they are so close together they might fuse into one person just physically right now i love it it's such a key every time we see a couple like

this they're always holding hands hugging there's always this sense of unity that did you did your marriage grow during this journey in 27 months and more than i ever thought we uh it not only grew it kind of divided a little bit made a new one all right here we go i like it that's good stuff all right so you brought the kiddos with you to do

the debt-free scream what are their names and ages we have aiden he's nine and this is connor the new one he is six months all right and that's who we were just discussing yeah way to go connor you did it man good job

all right you can get free from sherry there good all right that's fun good stuff good stuff we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story you're going to be every baby steps millionaires before you know it if you're not already well done very well done and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give it away

and pay it forward to somebody and get them started and 27 months later maybe they'll be standing here you never know we would love that that's how that's how this stuff gets spread so thank you guys so much definitely uh looking forward to watching on the borrowed future ah welcome well i'll tell you what we're going to set you up with a uh with a free view of

it we're going to do that as part of the package you'll be in here today it'll be perfect we'll take care of that for you our oldest daughter is 17 and she's about ready to go to college next year oh wow this will uh this will scare you straight right here i'm just saying good good work you guys excellent excellent work all right it's adam and olivia aiden

and connor 173 000 paid off in 27

months house and everything not even 40

years old 126 190 000 income during that

time count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one [Applause]

well done i think that baby knows he's dead free i can see it on his face conor connor i mean hayden does the countdown this is good i could hear him he didn't have a microphone and we could hear him see this is uh this is how family tree's changed now he may not remember a lot but he's when he's 29 he'll remember that time his parents came

and stood on stage in nashville and yelled because they'd sacrificed and worked like crazy to change their family tree and when he's 29 out there walking around he's going to be making completely different decisions because of this yeah the the modeling that you do before your children and involving them in this process is as important as you becoming wealthy

in terms of you if you want to change your family tree you can leave an idiot ten million dollars they'll go through it but if you raise children that aren't idiots and because you modeled before them and you you know they'll win like one guy said the other day i was on the uh every day on the everyday millionaire hour i said would you inherit from your family

he said work ethic oh i love that you know character is more important to pass yeah morning morris caught than taught and uh he caught a lot watching his parents sacrifice for 27 months way

to go aiden incredible good job man well done well done well done good stuff

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we appreciate you guys listening george campbell ramsey personality host of the new podcast the fine print is my co-host today darren is with us in chicago hi darren how are you hey i'm doing pretty well how are you guys doing better than we deserve what's up i just want to first say just thank you guys for all that you do really appreciate uh you and all your your team there well thank you um so my question is uh so my wife is an

interior designer right now and um she's wanting to start her own interior design business in the next few years and i was just wondering if i could get some advice on how i could be you know just kind of a better encourager to help motivate her

and just kind of be that support person behind her um when when sometimes she does kind of have you know a lack of confidence in her ability to to be able to do that yeah absolutely first of all i think it's awesome that you are calling in on behalf to to want to show that level of support how serious is she about this business right now is

it just kind of a dream um it is a dream but she's you know like working towards uh to be able to do that um right now she works for a pretty big firm uh architecture firm um and so you know she's been getting more into reading different materials getting into like christie's uh material and just trying to set herself up whenever she is ready to kind of make that leap um

you know i know you guys always always say don't try to kind of get the boat a little bit closer to the dock before kind of making that leap so she's trying to kind of position herself to kind of start dabbling in that more and more yeah there's a lot of people that are um what we call makers um that make uh that often make the error of uh

because they're good at doing a thing they think they need to do a business of that they they're good at cooking and so they're a good chef so they need to run a restaurant cooking is a different skill set than running a restaurant is uh they they're good at uh being a uh a

web developer and so they need to open a digital web development company no you're there it's different skill set um they're good at uh sales and so they need to be promoted to sales manager uh now it's a different skill set to manage sales people than to actually be one and so on and and so you're good painter a house painter and so you want to open a house painting business well it's different skill set to run a business

and it is paint houses so that's the first area i would encourage her in is not to recognize how good she is at home decorating i think that's already established she's probably pretty confident about that where her lack of confidence and her fear will come up is is wise fear in that she realizes she's getting ready to become an executive in business and doesn't know how and

so now dive into christie's materials and learn how to run a business and then when she's learning the different components of business from entre leadership from the business boutique brand from christie then um you know you can do any i don't

i couldn't spell digital five years ago now the company i run is basically a digital company and i'm the ceo of a 300 million dollar company so but i don't i sit in the meetings with these digital people i don't even know what they're saying sometimes and i own the place but i don't but i don't have to have the digital skills i do have to have the executive skills to herd the cats towards a common goal

and a vision and setting that and keeping everybody in the in their lane and uh listening to the experts and going with learning enough to where i can make a good solid um decision and so executive skills are gathering up people to do things you don't know how to do and helping everybody going the right direction yeah part of that is figuring out is this a hobby is

this something i can do on the side and i still get joy from that versus when you do it full-time and this happened to me with music i tried to go in full-time into music and realize you know what i'm running a business and i don't want to be running a business i got into it because i love making music yeah and so that's something that she needs to dig into

and maybe she does it on the side for now and as it grows she may say you know what i do want to be my own boss i want to take this thing full time and that's when you can come along cider and support her with anything she needs yeah and you know so what i the encouragement is going to be you don't know how to do that

so what most executives don't

they don't know how to do the thing that they run necessarily uh and so the key to running a business is not to be an expert on the thing the key to running a business is being expert on getting people that are smarter than you in certain areas to all work together in concert you are the orchestra conductor you don't have to play the violin but you do have to get

the violin to come in at the proper time with the oboe yeah and darren notice i worked oboe into this i'm impressed that was one of those words i didn't know that you would work in today dave no that didn't when i got up this morning i thought i'm going to work oboe into the first hour my bingo card is now full yes so darren what i love to do is gift your wife a ticket to

the business boutique live stream she can tune in from chicago and it's happening this weekend dave's going to be speaking there and i think this will give her some real encouragement and really put down on paper what this dream is what it's gonna take to get there and then at least you know there's some facts on the ground where you can go all right is this something we're gonna do what is

the next step i can take and if it's confidence thing christy is a master at that and she's going to have a little bit more if not a lot more confidence after viewing this event so we'll have kelly pick up and make sure that she has access to that live stream and maybe you watch it with her that would be a cool thing to do to support her yeah christy has a talk on fear that even fear is afraid of

i believe that you don't mess with christy she's a beast [Laughter] in the best kind of way pretty incredible speaker pretty incredible communicator so uh yeah if you're worried about the fear in the face of what's going on in business you need to tune into business boutique this weekend uh you don't want to miss her and uh i'll be speaking dr john dolone several of the ramsey folks will be

there and the lineup is off the charts cool but of course christy is the star so open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in we'll

talk about your life and your money

george it is interesting there's something that occurs um in the human spirit and it goes back to starting and running your own business like that but also has to do with any area of your life that you don't know something about you can learn about it yeah information is accessible you can you know you don't i don't know i've never been good with money okay you know get a free uh

you know get get a free trial to ramsey plus and start working your way through financial peace university we'll show you how to it's built for people that didn't know how to handle money it's not built for people with an mba i mean mbas go through it all the time but if you've got a phd in finance you're going to be going well this is very primitive well um yeah

because the stuff that you do doesn't work so we had to teach people stuff that works and so you know but i mean i can't tell you when i got married how many marriage books i started reading because i discovered i'm pretty bad at this i don't know how to do it and then when i started having kids i'm like oh they didn't come with a manual no instruction

when i brought them home from the hospital you know you know nobody to teach me i gotta learn how i mean training a dog you gotta you gotta learn from somebody because you don't you know and so in it the point is you can learn almost anything if you want to bad enough yeah and i found that i've got so many books sitting on the shelf that

i thought i want to learn about and i found that what i care about is what i invest my time into and so if you're big into interior designing you're going to figure out a way to do it you're going to watch youtube clips you're going to read books you're going to talk to mentors and you're going to figure out a way to do it but you have to want

it badly enough you get a fire in your belly yep and then you can you can learn anything now i mean it's accessible information is accessible and you don't have to be a genius so don't don't ever say i'm not good at blank blank you can say

i choose not to be good at blank blank but you're not good at it because you chose not to learn more about it whatever it is that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsay show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paying off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of choice i'm dave

ramsey your host thank you for joining us america george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print podcast among others is my co-host today

open phones as we talk to you about your life and your money this is a weird talk radio show because it's about you it's not about me not about it not even about george shock i thought that was gonna be the answer dave shock it it's all about george no no it's not no sorry george

not about me my feelings aren't you guys so it's weird because most talk radio is about the guy on the microphone and we're not the hero in this story you are we're just showing you how to do it open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five asheville north carolina glen is with us hey glenn how are you you're doing great dave thanks for taking my call

i really really appreciate all you do you too sir how can we help uh our family's been very blessed in that uh our children are registered with uh through my wife are part of a native american tribe and so they pay money into uh i guess it's kind of a trust fund for them that they can't access till they're 18 and then they disperse it for a few years

after that we have seven children and they're all registered so my approximations uh the oldest is 16 right now and my estimates are that when they turn 18 it'll be in the neighborhood of about 250 000 dollars until each beginning so each correct yeah so so my question for you was i mean i have some ideas but i wanted your opinion on what kind of things should

we be doing in the home to teach them about money now as well as make sure that once they get it they don't squander it because we know a lot of other people that are in the same boat and you know they buy cars and end up in a ditch in a few years and you know it's it can be pretty it's pretty sad i know it's not ten million dollars

but it's to us it's pretty substantial amount oh it is substantial it is and this this happens a lot and we've worked with a lot of tribal situations because the money has turned out to not be a blessing because it's caused people as you said to fall into addiction uh to fall into a

lack of a work ethic because they think they've got it made without working because they're on the tribal dole and um it's uh it's had a socio-economic effect that i don't think anybody really saw it was an unintended consequence across the board right uh certainly certain individuals have used it to be a blessing and others it's it's really damaged their life which is really sad and so we've seen that

so you guys are this is probably what cherokee correct correct yeah okay all right cool yeah been there been to that harass yeah so um the uh yeah sure i mean i was born in maryville so cherokee north carolina's just up over the hill from us yeah so uh i've been around this my whole life but it's just become extremely profitable because the casinos in the last uh few decades for a lot of

the tribes so anyway all that to say um it's a little

bit like growing up in a wealthy family only the family didn't earn the money right and so you have to guard your kids about against the dangers of wealth which are sloth a addiction and misbehavior sloth meaning laziness okay and so we had to teach the ramsey kids as an example growing up that they had that they're entitled to nothing

don't talk to me about entitled uh you know a ramsey kid get jacked up growing up if they start acting entitled and especially if they start acting like my dad's on the radio so i get to do so and so i really jack you up you start playing the dave card rachel can tell you stories from her childhood that left scars and so because it's just because

i was not going to have our kids turn out as a reality show because we built wealth and i wanted quite the opposite the wealth needs to be a blessing and the money is not the problem the problem is how you react to it and so what you have to start teaching your kids as early as possible is that this is this is not you hit the tribal lottery

this is you have a tremendous responsibility with great blessing comes great responsibility and i want you instead of feeling like you had like you scored a touchdown in the super bowl and like you did something fancy because you hadn't done nothing you just hit the dna lottery that was it that's all you've done you're entitled to nothing here so instead you need to take this money and see it as a responsibility to your family you know your own future

family to yourself to your community and so wealth is a it is a responsibility and i want you to feel the weight of that we did that through a spiritual lens saying we don't own it god owns it we're managing it for him so we have the responsibility to be faithful to be trustworthy worthy of trust in this and so there's going to be a lot of dad speeches in your house if you're wise and you know teach them to work teach them to act like this money's not there if they act like the money's not there they'll be just fine and that money then can be a blessing and they can hold it with an open hand with a generous hand they can hold it with a hand towards the future um all of those kinds of things and and so but it can be done you can teach a kid in a rich family work ethic you can teach them integrity you can teach them character uh you can teach them delayed pleasure uh you can teach them the generosity um but but where this all falls down is when it becomes very all about me all about me all about me that's the entitled arrogant mentality that that sometimes the truth in a sense it's like a trust fund baby right right yeah so uh smart money smart kids is the book that rachel and i did that was the number one bestseller that addresses how to raise kids and teach them how to handle money we talk about this kind of stuff in there i'll send you a copy of it uh george what do you want to add to that you've watched rachel and daniel and denise around this place yeah there's zero entitlement and all work ethic and what i've seen glenn is that money is going to make them more of whoever they are and so whatever they are at age 18 well that's how they're going to handle that money when they get that 250k so what i want you to do is raise them in the best way you can walk them through the principles of smart money smart kids have them go through financial peace university maybe as a family and then you can start to go hey what are your goals this money can then flow through that framework that you've worked so hard to build to where they go cool we're going to cash flow school we're not going to take out any debt we're going to get ourselves a car we're going to have a down payment for the house we're going to have a fully funded emergency fund and what that's going to do is catapult them into their adult life while their peers are hanging behind with all these student loans and car payments they are able to have a paid for house at 24.

and so i'm glad the young man young ladies are being blessed it's a good thing let's just make sure it is uh that they understand they're blessed so that they can be a blessing [Music]

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host the last 24 months have been

hmm a lot hasn't it a lot of worry a lot of wondering what's gonna happen next a lot of uncertainty a lot of cray cray out there and maybe that's how you feel about your money you're tired you're stuck you're stretched thin it doesn't have to be this way the weird thing is is even in a wicked weird environment if you have a plan

there's a sense of calm and a success level that changes because a plan gives you confidence when everything else is out of control we teach you the plan and have for decades in a class called financial peace university almost 10 million people have been through this class and it'll teach you everything you need to know to save money get out of debt become wealthy and be outrageously generous you can stream the lessons on your own or you can even go to class with other people and get support that way or both

then you'll put the plan into practice with the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app the world's best budgeting app it syncs up with your bank and you can track your spending and see where your money goes you get all of this only with a ramsey plus membership

you don't have to stay exhausted you don't have to be overwhelmed you can win

with money to start your free trial of ramsey plus text trial to 33 789 text trial to 33789

george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five riley is in minnesota hi riley how are you oh not too bad how are you doing dave better than i deserve what's up

okay so my question is kind of a two-parter so i'm gonna try and keep it as short as possible um when i took um personal finance my

junior year of high school my personal finance teacher actually showed us your classes for her class to help prove like reinforce for point and in my when i was junior i was not very

smart and i thought you were actually quite arrogant and i didn't take your advice but now my grandparents recommended i started listening to you again and now i'm feeling really arrogant and stupid the table's turned well that's okay me too brother i understand that's exactly what i would have done in high school i like you if i had watched me in high school i would have been making fun of me

that's exactly what i was doing unfortunately because now i feel like i've put myself in quite a bit of a pickle what'd you do um well to start i don't this is gonna make

your jaw drop i don't use uh debit card

or cash i strictly use credit cards okay

what's your question for today let's try it that way my question for today okay um i guess like for the first part would be um with how i use actually else gets the big problem is i am 20 years old and i

bought my house when i was 19 years old

on a 5 down payment and a 30-year loan

okay and i was wondering what should what should i do are you having any trouble making the payments no that's not the problem it's just you

after watching i've been watching your videos again for about five days now and you recommend doing a 15

what is your income my income um do you want that from my main job or from all sources all sources

about 40 000. good for you good for you okay um well here's the thing what's the interest rate on your mortgage uh three percent fixed okay you don't have to do anything with this mortgage you just need to get yourself on a plan and just you can pay extra on it without refinancing it and if you pay a 30 like

a 15 it pays off in 15.

so you haven't you haven't ruined your life you're okay okay yeah that was just my biggest concern is because when i bought the house i thought of it in more of a

mathematical thought process i guess you could say it because the house is a i bought it under market value because the area i'm in the houses are roughly 150 000 to 250 000. i got it for 110.

and i figured if i spread it out over the next 30 years with inflation that 112 000

will be hundred and something thousand and the house plus interest will be a hundred and sixty thousand so i thought if that plot was if i paid out the full thirty years i'll end up saving money through inflation because 30 years from now i'm going to be paying the same amount but with money that's technically worth less than it is now yeah but not really and here's why okay the house is going to go up in value due to inflation whether it has a mortgage or not

these are independent equations these equations are not interconnected and so you don't have to have a mortgage in order for the house to go up in value and so what if you had it paid for and it went up in value oh now we've got the formula on how to be a millionaire yeah and to the credit card thing he he wanted to make it clear that

he uses no debit cards in cash only credit cards there's other pieces to this equation that you've got to figure out obviously the mortgage is not syncing you financially but i am worried about your mindset when it comes to debt and so this is something i want you to really take a hard look at and go what other areas am i willing to have payments on because right now you're willing to have

the credit card payment i don't know if you're paying it off i don't know what other kind of debt you may have but i think we need to change our mindset here because you're 20 years old and you're good at math but you're not great at managing money and so i want you to get better at the second part and then the math will help you going forward

so you're doing great riley obviously you made uh a little ouchie here but it's not sinking you and your income is only going to go up and as it does i want you to pay that mortgage off i don't know why you wanted to hang around for 30 years that made you made it very clear like well in 30 years no i want this thing gone in five

10 15 years because you have a life to live and i don't know about you but i don't want a mortgage when i'm 50 years old well you're getting ready to be done with yours yeah i'm 32 and then we're paying it off in the next four or five months and i'm saying sayonara and i wish i was like you riley i was really good at math and really bad at money management and once i realized that there was a difference between the two it changed everything so go through something like financial peace university maybe now that uh your arrogance has gone away maybe it'll stick this time and you'll listen to grandma and grandpa because they've got a good head on their shoulders it's just common sense you're fine man uh you didn't do anything that most of us haven't done or wouldn't do the trick is to um learn and change because continuing to do the same thing over and over again expecting the different a different result is the definition of insanity mark is in peoria hi mark welcome to the ramsey show thanks for taking a call dave sure what's up hey uh i'm 60 my wife's 65.

i uh five years i'd like to be retired or semi-retired i have no pension no 401

no so-called retirement fund but i have accumulated and that's my business uh we've got 32 rental properties and i'm in the process of selling them uh a month ago i sold

well one of my last ones i sold i took that money paid the last three mortgages off uh a week ago uh close on another one so i've got about 70 000 sitting in the bank and um i've always been confident in the properties that i've bought and i know the business but i would like to start buying mutual funds and i'm out of my comfort zone

and i guess i'm terrified to you know i've watched uh american greed over the years and you've always talked about smart investor pros that you have but uh that being said um i'm out of my comfort zone and um i'm a little skeptical or scared of

starting to put the money in mutual funds wow how much these 32 houses so far would you get you should have more than 700 well no no well i mean we live i'm in the midwest midwestern part of the country all right i tell you what you hang on through this break we come back we'll talk about it see what's going on and see if we can help you with this process this is the ramsey shack

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still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit chministries.org budget don't worry it's worth it

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george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today we're talking with mark in peoria illinois he just sold 32 rentals thinking of putting the money into mutual funds but he knows real estate at 65 years old is comfortable with that and is scared about mutual funds is that a fair summary what you told me so far yes i i haven't sold 32 i have 32. oh i

misunderstood the last few i've sold been in the 60 to 70 thousand dollar range okay they're now nice small well

maintained bungalows are ranchers usually so why are you making the decision to get out of the real estate business and into the mutual fund business well uh i'm tired of it there's with 32

properties there's a lot of maintenance i'm a one one-man show i pretty much do everything i've had one person helped me throughout the years and right now i haven't been able to get anybody to help me in the last six or nine months there's just nobody out there that will i can hire so you've got 32 individual single family homes yeah a couple couple two three you know a couple of duplexes

and three units mixed in there but majority of them are single family houses what's the total value of the whole portfolio uh which is just about everything uh including my house that i live in is about 2.1 million good for you well done

well done well thank you well i'm not sure that uh if i were in your shoes i would make the leap to 100 mutual funds from 100 real estate what i would consider is some different kinds of real estate you're in the highest hassle factor type

of real estate um and uh if you're if you're gonna i don't you're talking about selling the entire portfolio off right well i'm thinking three quarters really slow down i might consider buying a commercial property that's income producing whether it be an office building or something that has a lot less maintenance issue and a lot less hassle with the cl with the uh tenant issue

the number of times i mean i've got i've got several of both and the number of times i get a call from a commercial building versus we get a call i don't get a call but our our team does our real estate team does versus the number of times we get a call off a single family home is i mean commercials just about a tenth of the hassle

and so you could take you know three-quarters of these you know 20 of these houses at 25 of these houses and convert them into a different kind of real estate if you wanted to uh if you don't want to it's okay as far as mutual funds go it's just like real estate the first time you bought a piece of real estate you didn't know what you were doing

it was scary all right the more you did that real easy the more you did it the more you became familiar with it the more you studied it the more you knew the neighborhoods the more confident you became in real estate because of your knowledge level and so mutual funds are going to be the same way click on smart vester at

ramseysolutions.com get with the smartvestor pro they have the heart of a teacher that's why we use that measure as one of the ways we vet them whether we will endorse them or not they have to have the heart of a teacher because i don't want people putting money in something they don't understand because you are always scared then so

you need to begin the process of learning a whole new type of investing and just work on it and just learn and you can wade in you don't have to go all in at one time there's nothing driving this except you're just tired of fooling with rental property yeah and hopefully i don't know that his income if all these rentals are producing that income but if you get rid of three quarters of your rentals that might be three quarters of your income

so just be thinking about that if it's tied up in mutual funds mutual funds you can pull the income off yeah i mean you can you can income it can produce you you put two million dollars or million dollars in mutual funds it should produce a hundred thousand bucks yeah know you don't have to leave the growth in there you can pull it off so he can live off of

the income there just as well but the truth is the real estate's gonna make more money than mutual funds but it does have a higher hassle factor it has more you know more to do and you've got to get out of the business of doing the maintenance yourself that's just not a good long-term plan that just steals your joy it just you know when you start out it's like kind of cool

because i got a hammer on my belt and all this but yeah real quick that crap gets old i know how to do it all but i'm not doing it all all right let's go to jordan and lee in albany new york they are debt free leah

hi guys how are you hey you doing good how much have you paid off so we paid off a hundred and five thousand dollars in about three years good for you and your range of income during that three years so we started off at forty thousand dollars and we wound up at a hundred and seventeen 117 000 at the end good for you wow what do y'all do for a living

well i'm a dietician and then i'm a special education teacher cool well you definitely increased your income during this time what was the 105 000 worth of debt so we had a loan uh to lea's parents we

had a loan on a bmw we had leah's

student loans and then we also had my student loans whoa okay and uh making 40 grand

yeah to start with yeah they were working with one income at the time yeah and and that beamer is just looking at you in the driveway yeah it was nice but it wasn't that nice yeah really so so what happened 36 months ago that put you guys on this journey well we uh we got engaged really is sort

of where that boiled up i had known about you for years and when marriage was on the table you know it was time to get serious with the finances

who had the beamer jordan who had the most student loans uh jordan as well also me yep she's very quickly been paying them off for a while okay so uh that see i was still accumulating when we got married ah okay good very good how'd you get connected to our plan

well um i had heard about you when i was

in college just listening to christian radio and uh your show would pop on every now and then and i found it fascinating so i didn't necessarily take all the principles and apply them but i listened to the advice and then when time came to

get serious about it i knew where to turn wow way to go you guys wow so uh what did you do to get out of debt what do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is well the first thing we paid off our parents debt first

and then we sold the beemer that'll do it that'll do it so are the parents are both sets of parents off in the background just cheering you on certainly yeah yep um we had a little bit of skepticism but also a little bit of uh cheering on okay healthy mix that's a good thing that's good who are your biggest cheerleaders so i'd like to give a shout out to my brother robbie who was definitely a cheerleader in

the process and is going through the same process himself all right yeah and then other than that we we cheered each other on and we kept each other honest with it yeah and uh field it that way well congratulations on your success we're really proud of you we're cheering you on for sure well done how's it feel now that you're free it feels good i was expecting almost to have um more freedom with money

but there's also goals that we have now the next baby steps so i don't just get to spend my money on whatever but yeah but cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status of choice right so they lived it there we go this is real i love it you guys well done yeah you'll get whatever car

you want later you drive like no one else later you can drive like no one else you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else so you paid a price to win congratulations will you go back in debt no never absolutely not okay had all this fun you want then good well way to go you guys we're very very proud of

you got a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away and encourage someone to get their journey started and we've also got a copy of the legacy journey and uh

that's for you guys because that's the next chapter in your story to change your whole lives your family tree you're in the process of doing that very well done you'll be baby steps millionaires before we know it you'll be calling in to talk about that so congratulations all right jordan and leah in albany new york 105 000 paid off

in 36 months making 40 to 117. count it

down let's hear a debt free scream

three two one we're debt-free

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you gotta love it well done you guys

well done this is the ramsay show

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george campbell ramsey personality host of the new podcast on the ramsey networks called the fine print 10 episodes of things that you might or

might not know are not a good idea and george will explain it to you the one that came out this week is on credit scores the dirty truth the dirty truth of the dirty fico score oh filthy dirty filthy filthy 50 50.

well when the uh when the whole thing is done the mortgage that you end up with does not need to be more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate and okay the ratio of ground to house can vary uh and you know if you're if you're buying a big track of ground obviously that you're probably gonna have a higher ratio of land cost versus house than you

would if you bought a simple lot and built on it a subdivision lot generally is going to be around 20 of the total price

if you buy you know a standard subdivision lot if you spend you know 100 000 bucks on a how on a lot you're gonna drop about a half million dollar you're gonna have a half million dollar project total so about four hundred thousand on the house that's about that's a fairly standard ratio but it's not a rule and there's nothing wrong with it being different if you want to buy a big track of ground

and build a small house on it because you wanted a farm type setting there's nothing wrong with that at all that doesn't mean you did something yeah we're quite a bit ways out of st louis and uh so we're going to be buying a three acre track of wood and then we working the ground and building our dream home on there cool good yeah so uh we're hoping to get

the land for about 60 000 and then uh build our house on that so i know yeah the ratio between land and house

mean it what are you thinking you're going to spend on the house on the construction uh you know we're hoping you know between you know 400 000 i think that's what we're going to be comfortable with after after getting the land um so that's about that's about a 20 ratio again you're not far off of that yeah so um you're a little higher on that but it's not it's not

the other world everything you're saying is fine i mean um in some cases you may be in you're in an area where the you're far enough out that the land cost has gone down you're three acres for 60 grand anywhere in america that's a pretty good deal you know and so um where where abouts

outside of st louis are you effingham illinois oh yeah absolutely yeah we've got an affiliate there yeah very good yeah uh yeah so we're just looking to buy a little check to land and start our start our dream home absolutely i don't see anything any reason not to do it as long as when you're finished 460 000 is on a mortgage on a 15 year would depend on how much cash

you put into the deal but your net mortgage cannot be more than a fourth of your take-home pay should not be more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fix because otherwise you end up house poor yeah and we experienced that we we did an episode on the fine print on the housing gold rush and we talked to people who got into these houses we've taken calls where people go dave i'm 50

of my take-home pays going towards this mortgage and it's crushing me so that's it really comes down to the ratios and math on this where you can breathe and you have margin to attack your other goals and invest and give and do all these things to where the house payment isn't bearing down on you it's a big deal all right matthew's with us in little rock arkansas hi matthew how are

you doing well how are you sir better than i deserve what's up oh not a lot i just want to start off by thanking you and the team for everything y'all do a few years ago i was able to make a jump into doing um my dream business from my day job and i would have never been in one position to do that if it weren't for

the principals y'all teach so the value all you all bring is uh awesome and i'm forever grateful well thank you sir yes sir down to my question um my wife and i have a three-year-old son we are starting to want to talk about a college fund getting together we're wondering about the difference between a 529 plan and a custodial account both my wife and i have been to college however kind of went

the budget route and if my son ever did want to do anything outside of college business oriented like we do i would want him to be able to convert that and i was just curious on your thoughts of the 529 versus the custodial account

well um even as mad as we are about the student loan debt and some of the ridiculous decisions people are making in the education world

we're not against education around here and so um you know there's no shame in going into the trades at all and sometimes you're going you're a diesel mechanic a welder can make more uh than somebody with a master's degree in sociology right now and so um you know you have to be careful about your decisions on your career path and what you spend to become

whatever it is you're going to become uh and so no there's no shame in any of that all of those are valid careers uh you've got to decide that but um but i will tell you this spending some money on knowledge is going to be a good thing for this kid whether you whether it's a classic higher education four-year degree or whether it's a community college or whether it's an associate's degree or whether it's a trade school of some kind that they're plugging into

so all of that can be used for the 529 the 529 gross tax-free the custodial does not

that's it that's the big difference uh the custodial does have an interesting feature in that you control the money until they're 21 you do not in

a 529.

interesting okay you control it only until they're 18 in the 529 and so if

during that three year period of time they continue to have no brains um then you can have more say in it if they have if it's a custodial account uh when our kids were growing up the 529s and esa's were not there so we did custodial accounts okay and um so i'm not afraid of them and and since it is basically the mutual fund people don't know what that means anytime

you open up a a bank account in a kid's name of any kind mutual fund or otherwise it's a custodial account because you cannot do contracts until you're 18 so you cannot open an account so basically you're opening an account in their name but you are the custodian you're the one doing the transaction and so if you open a savings account at the bank if your 16 year old has a checking account at

the bank it has you on it as a custodian because they cannot legally do that in any state you cannot do contracts in the state so and when you open an account you're entering into a contract so these are all custodial accounts but when you open a custodial account with a mutual fund company you the the money is in the kid's name

technically from a tax standpoint and so until it makes enough money to go past their standard deduction there's no taxes on the account so the account can grow to pretty good size because it's not going to make enough return to even be taxable so it's going to grow tax-free for the first big chunk of time the custodial account will but the 529 um i like the fact that

it points them towards knowledge and points them towards education because even as mad as we are about student loans and the stupidity in the higher education world we still want to point people towards education higher education trade school education education of some kind no education is not the answer to the student loan problem yeah and with the the esa or the 529 i love that tax-free growth

and you can pass it on it can go to a different family member there's a lot of things you can do with that even if they don't go the traditional route but that growing from three years old to 18 that's a massive growth even if you're putting in a little chunk of change every year a thousand dollars 2 000 15 years so if you're watching this kid

and as he ages uh he's less and less

likely to be higher ed more more likely to be starting a business or something else um you know you may want to divert and put less into the 529 and open a custodial as its twin sister to run with it that would be fine to have some money in each uh but i i there's something positive about going this is your college fund that's your college fund you're brainwashing them

the whole time they're going to college uh this is your college fund that's your college fund that's your college fund mine looked at their college fund and helped me calculate the mutual funds when they were 12 and 10 and so it kind of there's kind of this assumption that well there must we must be going to college and so it's a good thing and i'm glad i'm glad that my three kids

and i and my wife all have four-year degrees i think that's a positive thing you just want to do education in a smart way where we've somewhat lost our minds in this country there was a lot in that side and i you'll find out why when borrowed future launches tomorrow as a feature full-length film yeah there's documentary coming out check it out on apple tv google play google play

and um

amazon prime amazon prime thank you very much george and borrowed future.com you can rent it there as well this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermzyshow.com

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this is the ramsay show

you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your

[Music] story live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status

symbol of choice i'm dave ramsey your host thank you for joining us america we are so glad you are here open phones at

triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five

five two two five george campbell joins me as my co-host today he is ramsey

personality and host of many of our podcasts on the ramsey network including the new one the fine print which is uh

extremely popular be sure you check it out a new episode dropped this week on uh the credit score debacle it's a

big one it's a big one yeah anytime you can do something where everyone in america thinks they're measuring their money by your score you've done a big job it's impressive it is impressive i mean when you were growing up that that was not a thing people weren't measuring their lives against a number yep and now they are

d is with us dee is in kansas city hi dee how you doing hey dave i'm doing great thank you for taking my call sure what's up

well um it's a little overwhelming um today i just got a check that um we

inherited um just right under two million dollars how much and

two million two million dollars wow who who left you this

well my mom and dad but my my dad worked really really hard and lived very conservatively and um you

would have never known it growing up wow wow way very long ago really what did that how long ago did he pass

um he passed about a little over a year then my mom

just passed um just not much very long ago oh wow wow

right together how long were they married yeah oh goodness 60 plus years oh my goodness

well i'm sorry for your loss that leaves a big hole in your life yeah but yeah it's just a lot to take in

and we just want to be wise um

it's just a lot all at once

you get all um of financial people that try to tell you do this do that and we just my head spinning to be honest um we've worked hard my husband and i um

hey my husband's retired and he's 62 and

i'm 57 and i work part-time what is your net worth before you got this check

um we have about let's see 1.4 million okay so you were already millionaires yeah but um this just kind of all just happened my husband retired and i mean we just been working towards this day let me tell you how you got 1.4 million

slow and steady

yes sir and you did it without all of these financial sharks that are swimming around you in circles right now like a jimmy buffett song yeah okay yeah we just plugged it on you know how you get rid of those sharks you shoot at them with a gun and they swim off i'm i'm being metaphorical okay i'm not saying don't really shoot somebody okay you you're in kansas it could happen but um yeah no the uh uh run them off unless they're your financial person that you're already we're dealing with run them off

okay gotcha yeah they're they're there for the wrong reasons at the wrong time they have violated their their lack of class disqualifies them goodbye

all right all right now then so rule number one slow down okay going fast is bad going slow is good a lot of peace in that in there yeah your dad moved slowly your dad moved slow you got to 1.4 slow and the way you're going to properly handle 2 million extra is slow calm down there's no rush there's no one in a hurry a tornado is not coming you're fine okay number two don't put money in anything

you don't understand

it's your job to understand it but guess what you were already a millionaire so you already understand how to manage wealth you were already managing wealth

but maybe you need to bone up on it just a little bit maybe you need to polish up on your skills a little nothing wrong with that okay with the extra weight of this extra responsibility so rule one slow down two don't put money in anything you don't understand three do not work with anyone in any field anywhere in the financial world at all for that matter anyone anywhere probably

but certainly in the financial field unless they have the heart of a teacher okay and the sharks that are circling right now don't have the heart of a teacher get rid of them all right 85 percent of the people in the insurance business in the investment business in the real estate business in the estate planning business are sales people 15 of them are teachers

you're looking for one of the 15 percent and i made that number up by the way but i'm pretty close all right so you have the heart of a teacher as your advisor they are not telling you what to do and you're expected to do it blindly because you're going to understand it before you do it and you're going to slow down can you handle one more rule

i sure can ask yourself before you do the investment before you make the move is this honoring to my father's memory

okay and the reason i'm having you do that is your dad was a hero i want you managing money like he did

and if you think he's in heaven smiling because you're smart then that's probably because you're smart

and if you're if you invest in something you go my dad is up there shaking his head going uh uh uh uh uh that one's stupid and then you know you're doing the wrong thing right that's correct yeah because your dad was unassuming and steady and wise consequently proverbs says a godly man leaves an inheritance to his children's children

that's your dad okay if you do those four things kiddo you're going to be just fine george what do you want to add one no i just want you guys to start dreaming about what this does for you because what it does it gives you freedom and it gives you options and so start dreaming about what you want to do to make this a blessing i don't want

it to give you anxiety i want it to to give you that feeling of what could we do with this money do we want to uh you know there's three things you can do give save spend where do we want to give a portion of this how do we want to spend some of this and enjoy it and how do we want to save this or put

it towards other goals maybe you want to buy investment property or do something absolutely wild you have the freedom to do that now hey dee you're more able to handle this than you think you are you already had 1.4 million you're not dumb you know more than half the people that are purporting to give you advice trust your instincts you have good instincts this is the ramsay show

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if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 000 about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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[Applause] george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today this is the ramsey show if you've ever wondered if an online will is right for you if you need a trust do you need a mirror image will what kind of powers of attorney do you need well you hear me say everyone needs a will but i get a lot of questions asking if a simple online will is right for someone's specific situation with those questions in mind our team built a quiz to help

you find the right option for you the quiz gives you custom results based on the basic info like if you're married or single where you live even if you even the size of your estate it helps you understand exactly what you

need for your specific situation and everyone needs a will take the quiz to figure out what kind of will you need to protect your family and your wishes text the word quiz to 33 789 it's free check it out for yourself if an online solution works for your situation we'll send you a promo code for 20 off your will with our ramsey trusted provider

text quiz to 33 789 quiz to 33789

our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee that means even if you mismeasure or you pick the wrong color they'll remake your window blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from chris in tennessee with covid cases ramping up again i'm wondering how to prepare in case

we have lockdowns again my profession isn't one where i can work from home what steps can i take now to protect my family in case i'm not able to work for several weeks

interesting well uh i don't like people going into paranoia uh about what could and and what ifs but several weeks sounds like something that could be easily covered with an emergency fund where if you for some reason got laid off fired you'd be taken care of for

three to six months yeah but it sounds like there's more behind this question than just a financial question yeah there's he's afraid um and rightly so um because we've all had our uh world uh turned upside down and shaking like a freaking snow globe so um you know we don't know what's gonna happen next and it's not even the disease you worry about all the time it's whether the government loses its mind or not um and

well that's not even in question anymore but the um uh it's just a matter on from state to state locality to locality how much crap you're gonna get so he's in tennessee so he's safer than most yeah he's probably very safe in that regards um

huh the thing about the stuff we teach george while we get criticized for it to be um overly simplified or one-size-fits-all or primitive or not for people with money it's only for broke people or whatever we get all these you know these critics on this stuff and um the reason they're wrong is not because we're smarter or something like that the things we teach are common sense biblically based financial principles and the interesting thing about these principles is they work during

times of crisis and they work during times of prosperity

they're the only set of principles that work during both times

and so if you're out of debt principle number one you have money in savings for an emergency principle number two you're living on a plan principle number three you are not self-centered so that you're generous principle number four you're

surrounding yourself with like-minded people principle number five uh you're diversified spread your portions to seven years to eight for you do not know when disaster may come upon the land ecla ecclesiastes says in the bible diversification is a biblical concept it's also a financial concept but you know you know we're going to live on less than we make we're not in debt we're not co-signing debt debt's off the table we're investing wisely

what you are then is you have gone the slower route and you have built the brick house like the third pig and so my answer to chris is be the third pig you remember the three little pigs right the first two little pigs got their house blown down by the big bad wolf called pandemic and then he came over to the other little pig who had a lot of money in the bank and no debt and they blew any huffing puff then he went to somebody else's house and um they said no bacon here buddy

and so uh you know that that's the story we all remember it right so be the third pig we're gonna need to print up t-shirts be the third pig right and so if you're the third pig you are prospering during wonderful times and you're prospering during the pandemic and it has a tendency when you're not broke

to help you avoid paranoia because this one sounds a little bit paranoid yeah and i think a lot of this

is fear and we dealt with this you know during the pandemic we realized we were in a position to go we need to help people not just with money but with fear and what was what was the antidote you found to fear in the last 18 months we were quoting dr john deloney the whole time facts are your friends when you're in the middle of a crisis facts are your friends not feelings

so we need to go to reality here and so you know the truth is chris if you're in tennessee if you get out of your house and walk around you're not going to see a society that is shut down by covid uh even though there was a slight spike in cases which now are back down but um

you're not going to see facts before your eyes that match your words on this paper the facts are your friends feelings are not your friends and worry is a feeling paranoia is a feeling concern over observable craziness and stupidity is a fact and that's okay to be that i'm that

i don't know what's gonna happen next you know who knows what their people are going to do and i truly am more concerned about an out-of-control government than i am the disease both are scary uh one of them though is not um well anyway it's just yeah so you just if you'll get out of your house and walk around sir and get out in the sunshine and exercise

you need some vitamin d and um walk around see human beings interacting that are not freaked out they're not scared they're they're i think you're going to have a different conclusion into your situation but to answer your question about worrying be the third pig because these principles work in good times and they work in bad times george i remember um 2008 when the housing bubble burst when

the hedge funds had securitized subprime mortgages and stupidity had run amok and wall street brought the american real estate market to its knees with it the stock market stock market dropped in half bush is transitioning into obama neither one of them could find their butt with both hands at the time and um it was a disaster i mean it was scary and i i remember distinctly i was on fox news

i was in new york and i finished cavuto's show kavuto and i've been friends for years and cavuto is very very smart neil's a very bright man we've known each other 20 years probably and we're between breaks and

the octaves in his voice had changed he was scared because we're watching that red ticker tape go across the dadgum thing you know six feet tall across the side of the new york building and the stock market's going down gold prices are going up all these volatility signs are not good and he said you think we're going to be okay and i said i know we're going to be okay

and i went and sat down there's a steakhouse right across the street from there and sharon and i left the fox green room went across sat down ordered a steak and i'm looking at that dadgum ticker tape and suddenly that chill went down my spine and i thought i wonder if we're gonna be okay and sharon and i were talking about it that night at dinner and

we said why are we not scared because everybody else at that point was in freak out mode i mean we had

congressmen that were like crying on the television because they couldn't get the stimulus package passed you remember the stimulus package you know that kind of crap they were going crazy and it was just like this panic literally their voice octaves were changing and i said why are we not freaked out she said it could be our faith and i said well sometimes christians get afraid what's i mean you're not christian

i mean you don't get afraid and she said well could be we've got several million dollars in the bank of no doubt oh well that could be that that might have something to do with it

be the third pig chris be the third pig this is the ramsay show [Music]

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george camel ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage joy is with us from san diego california hi joy how are you i'm doing good how are you welcome to tennessee so good to have you how much debt have you paid off about a hundred and six thousand dollars how long did that take about 45 months good for you and your range of income during that time about 59 to 85. good

for you what do you do for a living by day i am a buyer i work in supply chain and i do a lot of other things on the side okay whatever it takes huh good for you well done what what kind of debt was the 106 000 that you eliminated i had

student loans there was a car some school loans from family members i had a nine dollar library fine that i didn't know about and a handful of credit cards i can't believe you had a nine dollar library fine that's just straight to the top of the desk i thought you know i thought and i thought joy was gonna be one of the good ones and then i found out

she had a nine dollars was it one book can you tell us that was it worth it it was one book and it was four years old and they never even told me i had a fine oh there you go see that's how they do you oh we're at the library they're that way joy good for you that's amazing

well done you've been at this a while almost four years you've been hustling and grinding to get through this congratulations that is quite and sticking with anything that long's a great task but you've been at it so what started this ramsay journey of you getting out of debt so i was already wanting to get out of debt because i i'm an ordained pastor and i can't do that job as my full-time job with a 900 student loan payment oh there's that there's that and so i

i was working a plan and it was not working my plan was no good and i started following somebody's budget workbook and i decided to do it on my blog because nobody knew like people knew i had student loans but nobody including me knew how bad it was and so i did the first page of the workbook and it was to total up all your assets and all your debts

and i wrote a blog post about it and a friend of mine saw the post and sent me the link to her debt free screen and said this might be motivating for you if you listen to this podcast and so i listened and my first debt free screen that i heard i was sold and a few weeks later that other workbook kind of went out the window

and everything the credit cards are gone and everything's gone from there yeah wow good for you good for you wow that's fun i love a good friend that says this might be encouraging to you that's different than yeah listen to this you're stupid i got i got both kinds of friends but this might be encouraging to you that's nice yeah that's really nice well done very well done

so joy tell me this what was the what were the sacrifices that you made you said you were doing a lot of stuff on the side to bring in some extra income what were the sacrifices that caused you to pay off six figures in under four years well i worked a lot

of saturdays doing websites and ebay and

not going hiking and not doing things with family and friends i did some things did some free things but i said no to a lot of things in that process

a lot of really interesting dinners [Laughter] very creative what was the worst interesting dinner i don't know that any of them were like bad but people would give me food people were really supportive and would give me food and so i'd have to go find how many lentil recipes do you know

wow oh that's wonderful they would just donate you food yes oh when we were getting out of debt we were broke sharon would make tuna fish sandwiches and i would put them in the refrigerator at the office and by the time i got them out of the refrigerator at lunch they'd be soggy when i smell tuna fish this day it makes my net worth go down i it's it's broke people food for me

you know and you get a smell off of something that's broke people food that you equate with this time you'll never be able to eat it again it runs it it just ruins it so it's not it's not diet food it's broke people food so it's just like oh man that's cool that's fun good for you what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is

you did an incredible job by the way so i have three one is the budget but really actually looking at the budget like week to week because my tendency would be to have a budget and then do my spending and then come back to the end of the month and go what happened like it didn't follow it right and so or you get sloppy you lose you didn't

you forgot you spent money there yeah and so for me like i have to try to touch it every week and look at it make sure my receipts are entered and keep track of things week to week because if i don't touch it i get sloppy perfect the second one is that sharing takes away the shame i heard somebody say that once that's good but if i hadn't shared

on a blog post four years ago like i wouldn't be here

because i wouldn't even know yeah right but then there's this whole other piece of it's not something that i have to be afraid about somebody finding out that i've got this mountain of debt because everybody knows i'm destroying this mountain of debt i am a girl who pays off debt and so um

i am joy who pays off debt it's like you know you kind of pop the balloon and then there's no longer something for somebody to find out that's like this bad thing it's just it has no power over you anymore yeah um

and and the third one is you really have to cut up the credit cards i paid off all my credit cards in 2012 and then i paid off all my credit cards in 2018. see what happened here

i see a friend yeah so i know a lot of people who tell me they want to do the points thing or whatever and they are adults and they can make their own decisions but for me that was i was not going to do that a third time no it was done there's a youtube video with evidence they're all gone i had to put an end to that yeah yeah that's good that that's very smart it's very wise there's something that happens

when you burn the ships yep you can't go back cortez right and so yeah it changes the whole uh changes the whole thing and you go okay i'm really going to do this i'm going to have to live on a budget because i don't have a plastic crutch anymore right and i'm going to have to i'm going to have to have my emergency fund because i don't have a plastic crutch anymore

and um it forces you to to finish up and get rid of any ish

that you were doing it's no ramsay-ish you're going to you're going to be pure down the line and that that when you do all that you're exactly right that's that's when you see the results do i trust god or do i trust a credit card to get me out of an emergency who is your provider who's your provider master card who named that anyway yeah or god there you go that's very good powerful powerful well done joy

good job who were your biggest cheerleaders sounds like you had a bunch of them i had a bunch of them now there were some people that thought i was insane when they saw the video of me cutting up my credit cards yeah that's good that was that was nuts but broke people are making fun of your financial plan you are right on track but my my family has been amazing i'm

part of a writers group the acfw in orange county and two churches that i've been part of during this season coast city church in oceanside and citywide mosaic in temecula yeah and these people

cheered me on and wouldn't let me pay for food and gave me hand-me-down clothes and gave me massive amounts of things to sell on ebay like i didn't go and buy things to sell in my ebay store people just kept giving me it just kept coming when i was done i had to clear it all out of my house because there was still so much stuff yeah

so mosaic erwin mcmanus uh no it's citywide mosaic and temecula okay so it's different than mcmanus yes okay all right because he's got his called mosaic there too all right cool very cool good for you well done well done well done well done man she's impressive very i don't think there's any stopping joy no she's going to cut up anything that comes her way

[Laughter] that'll work well i mean once you set your face towards something and um you know there's something about the power of confession uh it takes away you know nothing has secrets have power over you

but when you when there aren't secrets there's no power and so you know i've often said uh you know once i went broke i got over worrying about what you people think and so my failures are my biggest part of my brand yeah so i just kind of relish in them because it's kind of who we are i've got a phd in the umb and if you don't like that shut up you're wrong so all right joy way to go 106 000 paid off 45 months make it 59 to 85.

this is how it's done

45 months coming to that moment that is true joy yeah literally and figuratively this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day philippians 1 27 whatever happens conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of christ then whether i come and see you or only hear about you in my absence i will know

that you stand firm in the one spirit striving together as one for the faith for the faith of the gospel babe ruth said never let the fear of striking out keep you from playing the game george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five hayden is with us in oklahoma city hi

hayden welcome to the ramsey show thank you how are you dave better than i deserve what's up so i'm 25 my wife and i just got done

paying off some student loans great don't quite have our emergency fund set

up yeah you know where it should be yet uh but you know i'm a planner so we're sitting talking with um you know the companies we work for and then some financial advisors in the area about setting up a 401k and ira and stuff so my company so the question i have in my company only matches up to half a percent so i'm wondering how much i then

you know take out for that side and how much i go to the

my financial advisor uh with a just regular irv so if in the baby steps you said you almost have that emergency fund ready to go once you're at baby step four then we're gonna put 15 and you're wondering how do i do that in what order uh because of this half percent match and we like match the best so match is gonna beat pretty much everything out

there because it's free money we're gonna follow that up by going to that roth ira that you mentioned and you can max that out uh followed by going back to the 401k and you said you and your wife are looking into what options she has uh and it won't make a difference as far as 15 is gonna be across your household income and so as long as you're you're doing that total across

it uh i don't know if does she have a match as well yeah she does and hers is um it's like up to three percent and then after three percent it um every other percent and then it maxes out five okay so you want to do all

matches first so let me let me back up you kind of have to back into this what george said is exactly right match beats roth beats traditional so that's your order of attack is matched to roth for traditional and roth can be roth 401k or roth ira either one

okay but a roth without a match does not keep up with a traditional with a match or a roth with a match either one so match is best now so just take your whole household income times 0.15 that's the number we're trying to get to okay then you do your half percent match and that gives you a number what's the number as compared to you deduct that from the 15 percent that not the percentage points but you say that let's just use a round number let's say you made a hundred thousand dollars so your number is fifteen thousand dollars you're trying to get to if you're half a percent is uh two is a thousand dollars now we got still gotta do 14 000.

every other 1 adds up to when we by the time we do all that to get all that match that adds up to out of your pocket

another 4 000 well now we're down to 10 000 okay out of that 15. and so you start spending off of your 15 000 or your 15

number uh first by match then by roth and then by traditional

george is exactly right that's exactly how you approach this and that's going to get you there but sometimes people it's a little bit confusing because it's like what it's a percentage of her income on hers and half percent of your income on yours and you're trying to how's that equate to the 15 percent well you can't mix it up because you got percentage of two different numbers

so uh you just go with an actual hard actual dollar amount the nominal figure the real number and then use that number to chunk out of until you get all the way down to zero yeah and it works the same way if he goes i'm going to do 15 out of my income she does 15 out of hers that simplifies it numbers wise and gets you to

the same place yeah uh but we might not do that because she might have a better match and we might end up doing a bunch of it over on her side yeah so you use the whole household number because if you if you split it up and you do 15 of her income and she runs down through that same formula match versus roth versus traditional uh you might miss out on

he might have a better match or she might have better if there's a big match exactly if one or the other has a match the other one doesn't you want to be sure you're chunking out the whole thing look at it holistically uh vishwas is with us in uh cincinnati

hi vis welsh how are you hi miss dave this is a great honor to speak to you thank you so much for taking the call sure what's up uh i'm a legal immigrant from india i make about uh 53 to 50k a year uh i have

eight thousand dollars in debt that is seven thousand dollars in credit card and a thousand dollars remaining in my personal loan that i took couple of years ago um i it's due to my visa restrictions it's a single household income i'm the only person out to work right now i i listened to your shows and i was trying to try and see if there's any possibility i could take up some additional work

and kind of reduce my debt i have already scrapped off all my credit cards i've just kept one just in case i needed because we might i did not have much of an emergency cash i have like close to 500 600 i just just to be on a safer side any

expenses it's a two-part question would you have any suggestions unless otherwise i take a different job uh or go back to my country i don't see any other ways i could tackle my expenses to become debt snowball and reduce the debt you have any suggestions for that and the main reason is that i'm also planning for a house because my family got bigger i have thirty five thousand dollars at my home country which

i could probably get it over here for my down payment but even even though i'm going to be staying here for only for two years because of these restrictions i'm not sure if it's an economically viable option to purchase off the house and because my family is getting bigger what's the probability of your visa renewal it's a work visa i assume yes sir it is so i would say it's probably close to 50 percent uh

because it's it's a different extension then it might be a different scenario so it's close to 50 percentage and you would have to at least go back to india for a period of time right that's right uh what i see like my wife

and me we just became new parents so the mental mindset is that if we head out of this country it would be for good and i don't she does not want to even come back here okay so she's indian as well yes yes okay all right cool all right no i would not buy a house okay it sounds like you're leaving and not gonna come back okay in two years there's not enough time to turn a house

and make a profit on it uh yes i would pull some of your money from your home country just pay off your debt be debt-free okay okay and then let's go ahead and pile up cash for your future in india

and follow your baby steps in india at that point uh because that's where you know basically you got a two-year stopover here is what you're telling me and a 50 chance of renewal um and if that does not if that renewal does not occur if it does occur how long is it extended for so that's the catchy part if it does occur uh it would be extension of every three years

so then it would be another three years after that what is the pathway to citizenship look like oh that's a very long processor it's like this process i'm talking about is a green card so i'm applying for the green card and it's due it's a work visa related green card the backlog for indian citizens is close to 10 to 12 years easily so uh i would still be able

to extend every three years and stay in this country but uh the green card i would get only after like probably 20 32 or 30 35 something like that wow okay i i don't i don't have much knowledge of that world uh uh just enough to ask a semi-intelligent question was all so uh that's that's shocking to me i'm sorry wow um well here's the thing you still work

the financial principles they work uh the only thing is you're probably going to step back from buying a house in this case it's not going to make sense yeah you said based on your income you feel like you couldn't pay this off and i just want to challenge you and tell you that you can and people make a lot less and pay off a lot more so

you absolutely can do this and you've got the money sitting over there in india so if you can use that to at least pay off this debt and create an emergency fund of three to six months that's going to put you in a really good spot as you at least finish out this visa yeah wow hey thank you for the call

sir it's honored to talk with you george campbell ramsey personality my co-host today good show george thank you always a good time nice job james and kelly in the booth as always i am dave ramsey your host this is common sense for your dollars and since we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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you

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the ken coleman show is my co-host today as we talk about careers and jobs with him and life and so forth with me and

ken together this is launch day around

ramsey borrowed future the documentary is available as of now you can watch it on apple tv on google play and on amazon prime or borrowed future dot com if you're a teacher and you would like to show this student loan expose

to your students after they see it i promise you they will go to college without debt it will uh scare them straight

and we're here to stir up a holy ruckus it's what we do around here and i can promise you this uh this documentary will uh it's not gonna be some people not happy when they see that what we did to them yeah because we exposed the underbelly of some of these places that uh have been misbehaving for years and all shows

up in this documentary you will enjoy it it's riveting it's very very very well done borrowed future anywhere great docs are found

so ken the wall street journal reads the irs wants to look at your bank account on your next trip to the atm imagine that uncle sam is looking over your shoulder as if your annual tax filing wasn't invasive enough the biden administration would like to look at your checking account charles reddig the

commissioner of the internal revenue service wants banks to report annual cash flows for ordinary account holders

treasury secretary janet yellen is promoting the plan and the house ways and means committee is debating whether to include this mandate in the democrats 3.5 trillion dollar

spending bill mr ellen says the reporting will help to catch wealthy tax dodgers in a recent letter to the committee she said the plan would reveal opaque income streams that disproportionately accrue to the top

yeah the re the wealthy are evil and i'm sure they're all hiding their money in the bank you stupid woman seriously well this is uh this is unbelievable had had i not seen that this was an actual article i would have thought this was a spoof from the onion this is so unbelievably outrageous

that the federal government is kicking around the idea of being able to look into our bank accounts let me tell you something this is going to get nasty right here because uh there's there's always another way around every time government tries to move and pivot to take away our personal freedom uh people figure it out and i hope some bankers are paying attention right now because if

i i i i can you imagine something can you imagine that this would not help deposits that's what i'm saying it's going to disrupt and destroy an industry i got to tell you the irs plans to review every account above a 600 balance

or because that's the people that are these are the wealthy tax dodgers here well there's the catch it's not about wealthy people it's about everybody yeah it's about control again it's time for some pitchforks to come out i got a little bit of a little bit of a probably a couple of uh torches to go with the pitchforks yes it's also a privacy breach waiting to happen not long ago

the confidential tax records of jeff bezos mike bloomberg and other wealthy americans were exposed by pro-publica whoever leaked or hacked those records committed a crime but the irs has revealed nothing from its promised investigation adding bank account info to the irs trove would dis risk the disclosure of savings and spending information of political adversaries in the same way no that would never happen 23 state treasurers and auditors signed a letter last month opposing

the plan calling it one of the largest infringements of data privacy in our nation's history you think by the way watch this watch how this might just flood the cryptocurrency thing becoming an outside fringe thing to an actual everyday thing that's why this thing is out there i'm not endorsing it at all i don't do anything with it i want to be very clear but that's where

this is coming from because of this government overreach you watch it it's just gonna if this happens or even tries to happen it's gonna create a tidal wave of of mistrust and

all kinds of problems it's laughable it's so absurd it really is it's it's mind-blowing that that they think that this could actually happen yeah and and you know i would think that probably one of the more powerful lobbying groups even for democrats would be the bankers

abs that's why i laugh and i would think that they would put their big heel on this and grind because this is going to create um a lot of cost for them because they have to build systems to report this to comply this is like this is a billions and billions of dollars of cost for the banking industry yeah yeah the the this my god if you got 750

joe biden wants to know it oh yeah and first of all let me just say this i i have no this is opinion i just don't think this has any legs to it all it's so ridiculous but the emperor is officially not wearing clothes that's where we are right now this is such an unbelievable tradition yes on top of everything else he's taken his clothes suit needs ironing yes don't do that yes it does don't do that yeah it's just so absurd that this that this policy would even be floating but it's

you know it goes along with a lot of the covet overreach and some of these other things that are overreaching constitutional rights um and it's been going on for some time yes and uh just how much before people bow up on it um i think this would do apparently there's a weather problem with southwest air right now yeah weather the weather everywhere southwest air is flying is bad yeah and so uh they're struggling with weather and everywhere they land is a problem yeah so yeah this is gonna this has

these statements and policies and supposed

things even if you don't implement them if you just toss it out there like a trial balloon that has a grenade attached to it it still has implications that's a great point you know reverbs through these industries that's absolutely a great point dave this is a threat to privacy a threat right now it's a threat it's not an attack yet but it's a threat and i don't know

if there's anything more private than our bank accounts you start talking about people's money i mean we're talking you've been doing this for a long time we're talking crazy emotions around your money and the privacy of that yeah this is a threat to privacy that's what this is you know it's it's like a a banana republic where you can't trust the banking system so you have to keep your money under a mattress

and you have to stay off the grid because you can't it's not trustworthy they're correct why they steal the cheat and you know some of these crazy countries and if we're are we going to devolve into that with this kind of movement out of the federal government of course the good news is we've got a group of governors on several of these issues that are saying uh your overreach doesn't extend across our state line we're not going to allow

it and then we've got another group of governors that went oh yeah we're all in uh whatever you want to do we're with you big joe yeah this is out of control out of control the tyranny is uh is real

so yeah just let them poke around in everybody's bank account not to mention how much that costs not to mention how much you do but every time you get ready to move your money that you earned they want to know about it [Music] uh yeah we'll see how that works out this is the ramsey show [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at

825-5225 michael's with us in tampa florida hey michael welcome to the ramsey show hey guys how you doing great man what's up hey so um i'm having trouble deciding if i need to take um this new job along with the challenges

the schedule would have with me and my wife um we just had like a big rent increase in the entire tampa bay area and the job was pos was going to pay me probably about eight grand more walking into the door and i wouldn't know if i should take the job why would you not take the job what are you wondering about um so i have a older child from a previous relationship

and she comes over every other weekend and it would disrupt my time with her as well as my wife and i are disagreeing about you know i have one son and um she wants him to play sports and i do too but by the games being on the weekend i wouldn't be able to be there and we've kind of been bickering back and forth about that and i'm trying to get her to hold off

you know to agree to hold off on it but

i'm having a hard time yeah so are you guys in tough shape financially to where this eight thousand dollar bump is really really needed how is it going to affect you guys if you don't take the bump besides all the relationship stuff i know that you guys recommend 25

um our rent shouldn't be that uh but i mean to take home pay and the rent increase will probably put it at about 30 percent

what do you make a year combined last year we made 98.

okay so you're talking about an eight percent increase or seven percent increase

and [Music] your dispute is you would be working every weekend yes doing what what are you going to be doing i'm a truck driver for dr pepper right now and i have a better opportunity at a food service distribution as a food truck driver okay and will you be working weekends then the rest of your life yeah because i have a friend of mine that works there

and i was communicating with him about it and i spoke with his direct supervisor and he kept it you know on he was honest with me he said this he said he's been working saturday for 18 years he says i hate it

you know and i just i have guys quit all the time because they have kids that want to you know play ball and they want to be there and they can't michael is it is it possible i just want to know what your opinion is is it possible do you think that you could find another job making 8 000

even more than 8 000 more where you don't have to work weekends

it's it's very tough um i've tried tanker and hazmat because i do have those endorsements on my license but those guys work saturday and sunday

and evening time i've turned down

countless jobs even up to paying 90 grand because they want you to work in

the evening and it's saturday and sunday are these all driving related jobs where you're driving yes yeah but again i want to put that question back to you i think you've limited yourself because you've got a background you may enjoy driving i think you have to open up your possibilities right here to say well wait a second i've got some experience and i've got some skill and it's very transferable

i can do a whole lot more than just drive a truck and you are making a pretty decent household income together but you can increase this i think you've got to open yourself up to what's out there and when you begin to look for those things you will see those things and you got to get busy on this because taking this job is not about the 8 000 bump you're gonna be very miserable relationally

because you're gonna miss your kid you're gonna put pressure on your wife to not let the kid play sports and all that stuff and that's just a bunch of relationship turmoil that is related to you boxing yourself into this is the only thing i can do and i think that's the challenge and to begin to see what else you can do that is a much different schedule that doesn't require

you work weekends the rest of your life this is a great market right now to be looking and you've got to just harness all of that negative energy and turn it into i'm going to look for something else that does fit my relationship goals as well because it's out there yeah and this is the moment um because

with all the stuff happening in the economy one of the issues is logistics meaning

delivery by trucks and uh we're you know we've got ships that they can't get into port because they can't get the trucks to put the stuff on and so i'm not suggesting you start driving over the road i'm just saying that truck driving is at a premium right now and so no i would not take this other job but no i would not stay where i am either that's correct and so i'm going to do what ken said i'm going to expand my uh the the color the page you're

coloring on is not big enough you need a bigger page and you need to draw a better picture of where your future is going to be uh hang on the line michael i would love to give him a code a link and a code to the get clear career assessment which is going to help you see things you've never seen before it's a wonderful tool take your lesson 20 minutes it'll help

you see purpose in your work but more than that give you some real possibilities you can see what you have to offer to this world because you've got a lot to offer mark is in los angeles hey mark welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thanks for taking my call sure what's up dave i have a legacy journey question my wife and i are on baby step seven

and we have a nest egg of about four million three million in iras and one million in a taxable brokerage account we'll live off the interest you know with the goal of preserving the nest egg as an inheritance for my daughters here's my question as we manage this nest egg i'm currently planning to deplete the money in the iras and grow the money in the brokerage account over time with a goal of leaving

the kids a portfolio that's a 100 brokerage account and no ira money so their inheritance isn't encumbered with any government strings or tax bonds or anything and what i wondered was is this the right strategy yes if so how you would recommend i manage it to achieve it yeah i mean you've got the idea and it's just a matter of drawing down on the thing uh fast enough to keep

uh you know that you hit the perfect mark right where there's nothing left except the uh brokerage account when you get to retirement so uh that your your money that you are generous with while you're alive to other things uh your money that you are

living off of all comes out of that ira because that is it doesn't create an inheritance tax the ira doesn't but it is taxable because it's a traditional ira it's going to be taxed uh as an inherited ira or inherited 401k uh and

so yeah you're right you you you're on the right track but there's not a magic number to it if you know when you're gonna die you can figure it out easy yeah right but you know just start to start running your numbers and and deplete it exactly at that moment but you don't have to worry about that if you can just minimize the damage or minimize the process that

they have to screw with the government by by using this strategy it's very very wise i think you're way ahead of the curve that's some really good thinking on your part really good thinking beautiful idea i hadn't even thought of that actually really no i haven't i may need to think about that myself well that's good that's kind of a nice thing i've done a whole bunch of other things to keep money off

the estate plan right uh from a state tax standpoint

but um but i haven't thought about that stinking 401k which is sitting over there it's a monster right so is it about the pace by which he has to draw it down there's no i mean well you've got to use it up because anything he doesn't use up is going to be taxed right but you could there's nothing that keeps you from pulling out of a certain sums at some point

and certain something i mean you can do it discriminately you're going to pay taxes on it he's going to pay taxes on it or they're going to pay taxes on it right you're not going to get out of the taxes but it's not a state tax it's income tax right on the 401k and um yeah this is one of those uh tax dodges that the wealthy do

this is why the rs irs needs to get in our bank account yeah this is exactly evil because we you know we worked our whole lives and we actually built up something of our own money and already paid taxes on it once and then they want to get us again pay your fair share you you full wealthy people evil wealthy person you

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage don and paula are with us hey guys how are you good where do you guys live let me dream minnesota all right welcome to nashville

so good to have you how much debt have you guys paid off 135 thousand dollars way to go and how long did this take oh 26 months good for you and your range

of income during that time 148 000 to 158 000. good what do you

guys do for a living uh i'm a physical therapist i work for a large credit union okay very cool what kind of debt was the 135 000 uh we had three credit cards uh home equity lot of credit uh two vehicles a camper and a massive student loan oh man a big old student loan huh massive how long you guys been married 18 years wow

so what happened two years ago that put you on this ramsay journey we actually heard about you back in 2007 a friend of us had given gifted us your dvds uh we read them listened to them thought it was great at the time though we only had the massive school loan the mortgage so it just didn't stick fast forward life happened and uh

you know i paula paul always took care of the money so in 2018 you know all of a sudden she comes to me and says you need to quit going out for lunch well okay well thankfully i only live seven minutes from lunch or from work so i would go home and do dishes and laundry and go back to work not a big deal so a few months go by and she uh she says we need to cut cable we can't afford it we can't afford 100 a month oh

okay well begrudgingly i did so um in march of 2018 i'm working away and that morning i get a i get a phone call from her she was traveling a lot for work and she says you need to get out of this podcast we need to do this now and it was your podcast hopped on never looked back so we we took our credit cards from april and itemized everything and uh in the month of march dave we spent uh 1 225 out in restaurants

and 225 out in coffee shops wow i never

know where your retirement was going you were eating it never again no and we never looked back wow it was game on game over wow wow yeah you don't do anything when he jumps he jumps into the deep end that's right wow that's pretty impressive very cool so you went wide open then for the next two years yep game over these numbers are pretty impressive i mean you've been on beans

and rice yup yes we have i mean you had to have broke people making fun of you we had a lot of naysayers absolutely i bet you did still a lot of haters yeah unreal and um but now you're free and they're not so here we go look at me now how you like me now yeah i like it yeah good for you guys i'm so proud of

you thank you very very well done how's it feel to be free unbelievable it's it is absolutely crazy yeah i mean the emotion is all over you done and it's powerful stuff

where's that coming from is it the sacrifice is it the future is it all of it together that you're feeling in this moment well it's just the feeling in 2019 you know basically being normal living in an outhouse and now i'm in a penthouse kitchen's college funded retirement fully funded it's done i don't have to worry about money anymore it's over wow very cool wow so paula what do

you tell people the key to getting out of debt is now that you guys did it you know i think for me well a the budget because it was crazy

you know always being in charge of the finances and paying off the credit or trying to pay off the credit cards and we didn't have the money to pay off their credit cards and and then we did a budget and it's like holy crap we have

extra money to put toward this debt where did this come from well it wasn't going out to eat and the coffee shops and so

the budget was huge but i think the thing that made the difference in 2019 versus 07 when we initially heard about you was we had a why you know in 07 we didn't have the kids we didn't have to worry about college and now we have the kids and we

have a lake lot and the goal was to build a house at the lake lot and be able to do that when our kids are still with us and not out of the house and so i think it's having the budget but having that big why

so it sounds like you were handling the money obviously right and just kind of giving don instructions and uh the last instruction you gave him was uh listen to this podcast which meant that you no longer got to handle the money by yourself but you also didn't have all the weight on your own shoulders carrying all the decisions by yourself and talk about how important it is or how

you felt when your husband has put his shoulder up under there and lifted some of the weight off of you by making the decisions together it was it was huge i mean i was the one that always took care of everything and all of a sudden don is the one that's checking the bank account like 500 times a day you lit him on fire didn't you and he's like oh just

so you know i updated the budget i updated every dollar um and it's huge and and honestly it's so nice because i know that we're both on the same page you know because back in the day there were times where we would go out to eat and he'd be like oh you know i got this and i'd look at him like uh we don't we don't got

the money to got this now i don't need to worry yeah so great all right so so don you got on board right and it's obviously went all in okay absolutely what was the most extreme thing you did early on that you look back on now and you go this this helped me go from conviction and knowing that we have to do it to this got me really going

um you know there was an instance a couple weeks in where she had called me and she was down uh shopping with one of her sisters and she had asked me she could buy a sweatshirt and i said no you cannot buy a sweatshirt you can use one of my sweatshirts i have 12 of them that i never wear so you can go ahead and use one of mine

if you need a sweatshirt we do not need a sweatshirt wow the bravery to say that my man how did that go i want to hear the rest of that story well i told i was shopping with my sister she was in town and she's like oh paula this is really cute you've got to get this and i was like no that's that's not in the budget

and she's like oh come on paula it is a sweatshirt and i was like i can't it's not in the budget and she said fine i'll call up dawn i'll ask don and i said oh oh this is called you can ask don i know what he's gonna tell you he's gonna tell you no way and she's like he is not and she got off the phone

and she goes don told me you couldn't get the sweatshirt i was like i told you he was gonna say no

nice that's discipline though no that's it that's when listen if you live like no one else later you can live like no one else yeah and you know when you make 158 000 a year and you don't have any debt you can get a sweatshirt yeah by the way i would like to point out at this appropriate time don you should probably buy her a sweatshirt yeah one that one that says nashville on it while you're here she's earned it this woman earned a sweatshirt we're we're gonna we're gonna go all in on that i think so matter of fact ken's gonna buy you don't there it is hey why not with my money you guys are fun thank you so much congratulations we're very very proud of you you brought the kiddos with you what are their names and ages let's get them up into the shot we have garrett and owen who are 12.

mallory who is 10. all right very very

good most awesome very cool we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's a your next chapter in your story for sure you've changed your whole legacy guys as you said you've got a great why uh you changed your life for your kids and you changed their life in the process very cool stuff also copy the total money makeover for you to give away to somebody one of those people that was making fun of

you maybe maybe maybe we can help them out that's a good idea so very well done all right don and

paula garrett owen and mallory from minnesota 135 000 paid off in 26 months making 148 to

158 you are looking at life change right in front of you count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one

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that's how it's done right there baby yeah freedom [Laughter] it doesn't get any better hey listen when you work that hard and you sacrifice that deep you'll never go back no people never go back i'm not going to talk to them later they go well dave you know we sort of fell off and went and bought a car on a jet you're not going to hear that from don no don has changed he's done yes he is he's

stick a fork in him he's done yes this is the ramsey show

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so

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host open phones at

two two 825-5225 brian is with us in boulder colorado hey brian how are you

hey dave good how are you doing better than i deserve what's up well pleasure to be speaking with you um i wanted to talk to you about uh we

recently refinanced our home to a 15-year mortgage um but it puts us over your recommended 25 of our take-home pay it puts us more like 35 and just wondering if we should be looking for a cheaper home well here's the thing the whole reason for that ratio of 25 is for people not to sign up for something that causes them to be so pinched in their budget that they're tempted to go into debt for things

they should have been saving up for in other words if the house payment is pinching your budget so tight that every little thing that comes up looks like it's going to be a new debt then that's being house poor and that that's the thing so 35 doesn't kill you particularly if you are on a career path where you're going to see your income come up and it's not going to be 35 percent long for long it's going to be 30

and then later on it's gonna be 25 so i don't know that we have to panic about this but it's it's just a matter of don't do not be continuously engaging in

a process that that makes you broke that makes your monthly cash flow pinched and so you know as long as you have a good career path and you think you're going to see your income coming up i wouldn't panic and jump ship on it uh at this stage now if you're going to go buy a home don't do that okay don't don't go buy a home and take on 35 gold well my income's going to go up that's just that's

you know that's twisting my words that's not what i'm saying but you're already in a house are we going to sell the house move go through all that expense when in 24 or 36 months your ratios would have been all right anyway because your income came up no i'm not going to do that but don't go signing up for these things in the future that put you in a pinch that's

the whole point of the thing so ken the great resignation is underway

a lot of people 55 percent of americans one survey says are thinking about changing jobs actively right now couldn't be a better time for us to launch a book from paycheck to purpose the clear path to getting work you love i think your books timing might be just uh maybe the best i've ever seen yeah we we believe so because people are changing for a variety of reasons

so whether or not you just want to get promoted make more money you're doing what you really enjoy now you just want to move up get a bigger shovel to get through the baby steps or you're just showing up to a nine to five and you feel like you're just miserable when you pull up in the parking lot monday morning or you just want to find what is that meaningful work

this book really helps everybody who wants to work on purpose who wants more than a j-o-b who wants to make income and impact and the seven stages that we unpack in the book no matter who you are where you are will get you there and that's why we're so excited about it everybody knows that there's something they're supposed to do but they just wonder how do i get

there is it possible and the answer is yes there is a clear path yeah just a couple weeks before we ship these books or in pre-sale right now if you want a hundred dollars worth of extra items including the e-book including the um the uh audio

book including a whole bunch of other things go ahead and get the book now for 20 and you get over a hundred dollars worth of bonus tools resume templates and guides a video course that'll coach you through the interview process all of this paycheck from paycheck to purpose

at ramsey solutions go ahead and pre-order it now our question today comes from blinds.com find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings with free samples free shipping and the new promos they run all the time you will uh well you save even more use the promo code ramsey

today's question comes from ahmet in michigan i'm 30 years old i work for a local credit union and we get quarterly reviews i've met expectation for my next review and i've upped my skill set i want to ask for a sizable raise after working really hard during the lockdown where half of my team worked remotely during that time one co-worker and i have been in the office whenever

it was open and i recently found out that one of my co-workers is making 15 to 17 000 more than me and when this person takes time off i'm responsible for making sure their tasks get done the only person who knows how much i work uh how much work i put in is my manager i currently work over 60 hours a week i do love my job in

the company i'm working for but it is hard when i know i'm putting in more work than everyone else and getting paid less well we've heard this question before and unfortunately this the psychology around this kind of information that you've gotten is really hard to overcome because you are now aware and you are comparing yourself and that is a very dangerous dangerous place to be in because

you can't do much about this in this situation when you go into your next review uh you know leveraging this information isn't going to help you i wouldn't do it what i would talk about is a growth plan i would lay out how much you love the company as you as you put in this email and that you want to be here and you want to grow not just professionally

but financially but you lead with professional growth what are some areas that i can get better in where i'm a little bit weak what are some skills some tools i can add to my tool belt that will allow me to a get more responsibility drive greater value b and

then c grow financially as well that's

the posture by which you approach this so that your leaders get some buy-in they see your hunger but also your humility and that's all you can do and if you've got healthy leadership they're going to respond and they're going to talk about a growth plan and then measure the growth that's tied to compensation if they are not going to address this and they kick the can down

the road this is a sign that it may be time for you to move on and where you see a ladder and not a lid yeah that's the thing and so there is nothing wrong with saying in my mind and you can correct me ken um

how can i add value that will make you want to give me more money because i'd like to see some more income but i want i want to be worth it yes instead of i deserve this because so and so that's right if you say i did i deserve this because 60 hours i deserve this because so and so you know the entitlement i deserve this thing um is uh one of the most negative

possible emotions uh that you can that you can generate and you've gotten yourself kind of down in that hole a little bit here yeah a little bit of a pity party going on in the email there oh sure and uh and rightly so but still you know it's a wrong posture for you to get ahead you're not supposed to know what your co-worker makes and this is why because it's almost impossible to not

deal positively with that and that's why i laid it out when you sit with your leader you don't ask for a raise you ask for a growth plan you lead with as you notice what i said first where can i get better what are some areas where you where you think i can how can i add value that once makes you want to give me if some i'm not

i mean i own ramsey solutions if you come in my office and i'm doing a review with you or whatever or we're talking or even you just came in randomly and said listen i i'd like to make more money and uh the way i want to do that is i want to be worth more how can i be worth more how can i add value versus i actually had a guy come in my office many years ago had more degrees than a thermometer overeducated fool

and said uh you know show me his resume you know a guy like me that has this many degrees we usually make like a lot more than i make now and i said well you know you're working a small business son and he said what do you mean i said well small business works like this your raise is effective when you are i don't give a crap about your degrees

when you do something i'll share it with you that's how it works in a small business but but you know i got a degree so i got or i got six degrees so you know what are you a black belt yeah i mean come on no so um that didn't that doesn't that didn't play in dave's office no and it won't play anybody else's either by the way exactly right not

because i'm a jerk it's just that's the way it is yeah open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five again this is launch day for the new documentary borrowed future is available any great doc where any great documentaries are seen for instance you can see it on apple tv you can rent it for 4.99 on any of these locations including app google play uh apple tv uh amazon prime thank

you there i know there's another one yeah i gotta decide which one i'm gonna watch it maybe i'll just do all three of them well we're number two right now we launched it this morning yes we're number two among documentaries on apple right now that's great so it's already coming out of the gate pretty strong and i got to tell you when you guys watch this thing you're going to tell everybody

you know they have to watch it it is amazing yeah so

proud of our team borrowed future how student loans are killing the american dream out today this is the ramsey show [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts [Music]

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host ken coleman ramsey personality host of the ken coleman show where he talks about careers and jobs in author of the number

one best-selling book the proximity principle and the new book from paycheck to purpose he is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five samantha is with us in

san francisco hi samantha how are you

hi i'm doing good how are you today better than we deserve what's up um well i wanted to ask you guys especially at ken about possibly giving me some direction on where i should go career-wise at this point i currently am

in an electrical apprenticeship it's actually the family trade a bunch of electricians but i'm starting to realize that it's not really for me i'm a single mom and so there's a lot of pressure when it comes to trying to balance that as well as balance this career as well it just seems as though i keep having these roadblocks you know put in front of me and so

it doesn't seem like i'm going down the right path and because i'm starting to feel that way i've been thinking about some other career options that might be good for me and i just want to make sure that if i do change careers that i do go down on the right path instead of you know walking down another path and realizing that it's not for me again sure uh what what's

the big idea there is there a leading idea in the clubhouse right now yeah well i mean i have two two ideas um

one of them is actually your idea i was thinking about being that i'm here in the silicon valley area going to betheltech and trying to get a certification with them to become a ux designer because there's a lot of open jobs for that here so that was one option and then if if nothing else mattered and i followed my heart it would be i would try to go do producing um

i really like the idea of that i did a lot of stage management in high school so i did a lot of the live production type management and background back behind the scenes type of work and you know i really do love that kind of work but i understand that that would take me getting a little bit more qualified in the professional setting before i could actually make that a career yeah what does that look like just fast forward real quick take me up

the ladder i have a good idea of that industry but you've got a better idea what would that look like if everything was just equal and we could fast forward you there you're making the money you want to make what would you be doing where would you be doing it yeah i mean i i love the idea of you

know the producing live events um i

thought a lot about doing professional stage management for a long time but i don't think that the purpose would really be behind professional stage management i'm in live theater so i was thinking more like live events that help people you know okay talk shows and that kind of deal okay so i'm glad you gave me that specific i want to encourage you on something there is a path to get to that um and i will tell you that uh

you're already qualified to do that you know the fact that you've done some production work in the background uh i mean excuse me in your background your career background you are uh qualified now if you've got the talent of organization and detail management you've got some good personal skills and connecting with people and you're a good coordinator is the word that's coming to mind you can do that

and you can get in if you do a great job you can do well in fact i've got a friend who lives in the nashville area who now he's been doing this 25 years who now gets called for just every la award show that you can imagine i see him on tv all the time he's a professional stage manager now that's more you know that's very cool yeah

so i just want to share with you that that's possible okay so now it's about i'm a single mom i want to get out of this trade that's not right being an electrician that's kind of not my jam i'm thinking about technology as a ux designer i got to tell you i like the idea of you moving into a good solid day job okay that takes care of

you and the child or the children and we got some great stability and then you begin to work uh live events on the side that's going to be some weekends maybe a little bit of travel but if you can travel some and get in that live event industry and as a contractor and we at ramsey solutions hire some not many but some live event producers you can get in that way

and begin to build it and with that technology background and degree and qualification i think it gives you i think it's both and i think that'll be a really nice stable path because you're going to have to build relationships over time and get in and then once you realize i'm in and i can make the income i need then i step into that so i think you've got either or uh

if you can make the connections now and get in the live event space and make what you need to make i'd say go now if you need to build up to that then i would look at technologies a very safe day job brian is in jonesboro arkansas hey brian welcome to the ramsey show hey ken it's an honor to talk to you you too i've always had a low self-esteem

and i

recently went through a separation and divorced how do i throw my net worth without confusing it with self-worth

well let me reverse that who builds a big net worth and what type of person builds a big net worth and confuses it with self-worth

not sure i would someone with a low self-esteem no no not at all no because low self-esteem is not you know you don't confuse network if you have a high net worth and a low self-esteem you're not you're not confusing it so that's not the case the person that becomes what we're saying is someone becomes wealthy and they become a jerk or they become power hungry or they become they think they're all that and so what they are is they're spiritually and emotionally psychologically shallow

they have no spiritual depth to their life they have no psychological depth to their life and let me help you with this a person who asks this question is not prone to that yeah the person i'm talking about would never ask this question they would never go i'm confusing my net worth with my self-worth i'm really i'm all that because i've got a million dollars you know that's that's that's somebody that made that confusion

and that's a shallow entitled little jerk you know and whether they're a 58 year old little jerk or 18 you're a little jerk but um you're not going to have that problem brian i i just hear failure all over you yeah you've been through such help sounds like some tough stuff and you're starting to question how valuable you are and so i think i'm going to give

you two practical answers to your question number one you need to get around some people who know you really well who can remind you of how valuable you are to them secondly i want you to just do a little self exercise and just begin to get to know brian again and ask yourself what do i do really well what have people complimented me on in my life

i think i messed that up i think he was saying i've got a low net worth so i think i have a low self-worth he is he's he's i was flipping it i went the other way well i was going where you're going he's struggling financially and in his relationships and he's going i'm having a hard time seeing if i'm valuable because i don't have any money yeah okay well your value is intrinsic your value as a person your value as a human has nothing to do with your money that's right

but that's just uh that's a normal transaction when you've gotten the crap beat out of you like you have with the loss of relationships and everything else so one other question i'm sorry i completely blew that no it's okay but brian here's what i want you to apologize into you oh i know but i'm just saying it's okay but brian here's what i want you to do

i want you to find some people to add value to volunteer go love on somebody go do something valuable for somebody and feel the value that you be of help to someone serve and that will raise your self-worth and it is independent of your net worth i'm so sorry i messed that up

[Music] if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 000 about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today at betheltech.net and get 1 000 to 2500 off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net ken coleman

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in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage jimmy's with us hi jimmy how are you dave i'm great how are you better than i deserve sir so where do you live white plains new york white plains all right very cool welcome to nashville and uh how much debt have you paid off jimmy i've paid off just over 97 000 very cool how long did that take you sir just about five years love it and uh your range of income during that time talking about pay after tax um 53

to start and finishing up at 78. good for you what do you do for a living i am a training specialist i work for a large engineering company um so if your employees here at ramsay have to take any of those computerized e-learning modules i make those for the company that i work for ah okay good for you

very cool what kind of debt was your 97 000 it was a car and two student loans

one private one federal ah okay so what put you on this ramsey journey thing five years ago so in my family any

time you have a question about money my cousin stephen he's a little older to me he's in his 50s he's the guy you talk to about money quick background on him he's in his early 50s owns a mini mansion in north carolina free and clear is retired already after putting two kids through college so that's who you want to be when you grow up gotcha i had a question for

you because of steve yeah cousin steve so i had a question for him something about my 401k back when i was new with my current company so i called him and i was asking him whatever it was that i had to ask him about the 401k and he goes hold on time out stop for a minute let's take a step back you just finished your masters right yes steve okay how much student loan debt do

you have hanging out i told him the embarrassingly high number of student loan debt that i had and he goes all right have you heard of dave ramsey and i said actually yes and the reason that i have was because my mother actually had the exact copy of total money makeover that i brought with me here today sitting on her coffee table at her house it's a great coaster

it really it really was i think i used it a few times myself before before i realized what exactly it was so my apologies for that that's it's all good it's it's america's greatest coaster so anyway so he goes read that book and then talk to me later and we'll see how you doing i read that book and it literally completely changed my life and i'm not just saying that to blow smoke dave really

i never thought about money the same way again wow i like cousin steve yeah yeah he's my greatest promo guy way to go steve that's cool he kind of handled it like i think you would he was like hold on let's just go back he just cut him off and said no no no no no no no no no no i'm doing it i'm going to talk to

you about your 401k until you read your mother's coaster that's right i love him to get the coaster off the coffee table and i don't think we even finished the conversation about the 401k from there on out it was all about the debt yeah just all and you got done you got done and five years later here you sit all of it's gone car student loans everything sitting with a master's degree your mattresses

and what industrial and organizational psychology which he uses every day yes he does

fabulous yeah and thus you and thus you are doing that that's beautiful i like it very cool very cool jimmy i love it

how's it feel to be free oh it's tremendous dave it's like having a 400 pound monkey no longer on your back

absolutely absolutely what do you tell people you're a trainer what's the key to getting out of debt ignore and drown out all the noise as you're going through this process i mean i live in new york i meet a lot of people that wear very expensive suits and sound like they really know what they're talking about when it comes to money i've had people try to get me into cryptocurrency people try to get me into pyramid schemes

i mean all kinds of things that we're going to take away from my total money makeover debt-free journey and sometimes they make points that like make sense for a second and then you're like wait a minute no i listen to dave ramsey that's what i'm gonna do so it's drowning out all that noise staying the course and really just being focused on it wow submitting to the plan exactly

and stick to the plan stick to the plan stick to the plan good for you very well done sir wow this is powerful it is i

i'm curious is there a moment you can look back to or you you said okay i i caught some serious momentum uh or did you just from day one you were a bull and you never let up the momentum and this is where i think the snowball method is really really effective it was i had one of the student loans was for 3 000 so that was easy cash

then came the car i had i think 11 000 left on the car at that point once i paid off the car and now i had 280 from the car plus 30 for that other one 330 which for me back then was a lot of money at the time now that i had that free to apply towards the largest debt which was the largest student loan that was

the point where it was like all right now i'm really making progress now we're really going to see this thing take off awesome wow how big how important is that to experience that momentum in this journey it's essential because if you don't feel it if you don't feel it here your head is not going to listen to what's in here if what's in here is not there

if that makes sense does that make sense man you're preaching that somebody ought to tweet that that's phenomenal what you just said that's really good very well done very well done congratulations jim i'm proud of you thank you dave and ken proud of cousin steve oh he'll be so happy because i'm going to show him the clip once this edge so he'll be that's awesome he'll laugh for sure

i love it was he one of your cheerleaders as you went through this absolutely he was of course my my family mother father sister they were all very supportive but who i really have to thank is the ramsey community because they were my accountability partners i mean if you notice i'm standing up here all by myself i don't have a spouse i don't have kids there was nobody to really hold me accountable for doing all

this per se but when i turned on youtube three four times a week to watch the replay from the show just hearing the phone calls and and seeing the reactions and the emotion from people when they did their screams and just hearing all their stories that's what kind of held me accountable so i did this not only for myself but kind of also as what i felt was an obligation to

the ramsey community so a thank you to the entire ramsey community of listeners seriously from my heart to yours i love it love this guy this is great what a what a powerful thing we got a copy of the legacy journey for you a new coaster for your mom's table and uh a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away so that can be a coaster on someone else's table hey

but it hangs out long enough eventually it gets red i'm i'm going with this plan multi-purpose it's a long play it's not a short game it's a long game play but i'm going with it it's working for me well done jimmy very well done all right jimmy from yonkers new york 97 000 paid

off in five years making 53-78 count it down let's hear a debt

free scream three two one i'm debt free

i love it that is so fun

uh i think that whole segment was tweetable oh i know i mean that that screen right i want to tackle somebody and i don't tackle anybody but i want he's ready to go i mean the sheer passion from this guy how about the shout out to the entire community and i think that's a really interesting point that there's a whole bunch of people that we get the privilege to serve

and and in serving them they end up encouraging each other it really is the community it it's it's amazing you know all the people in ramsey plus and all the people have come to the events all the years all the people that are on the facebook page all it's amazing to see that here's a single guy who shouted out all the other people he came in contact with on

the same journey yep that's really cool and there's that um well it gives you permission to do stuff that that the rest of the culture is not doing when you look around you go okay there's there's about a bazillion other smart people doing what i'm doing exactly right and yes there's a bunch of crazies out there in the toxic culture but um but but but but there isn't

this oasis of humans that are engaged in transformation they're engaged in doing the work the hard work of change that's right and changing is hard wow get yourself a community even if it's on the facebook page uh or on the youtube channel get in community it's uh

it's vital way to go jimmy yeah proud of you man good stuff way to go cousin steve i love it love it love it love it everybody needs a cousin steve most people don't have one though that's a privilege right there i feel like we should get cousin steve on the line james i mean wouldn't that guy be a great interview at some point

this is the ramsey show [Music]

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ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt-free stage

blake and macy are with us hey guys how are you we're good how are you better than we deserve where do you live uh we live in dallas texas all right welcome to nashville and all the way up here to do a debt free scream how much have you paid off we have paid off 66 147 cool how long did that take about 15 months good for you and your range of income during that time so we started out at 133 000 and then at the end of the 15 it was a 143 000.

credit cards uh with that we financed our wedding our honeymoon uh just about everything uh yeah you name it we put it on a credit card a really expensive couch and uh in both of our

cars also so it was four credit cards and two cars so you're just kind of normal yeah we were really normal so you come home from the expensive wedding honeymoon and expensive cars are sitting in the driveway how long have you been married uh almost four years okay so you've been married a couple years and you look up and say uh we got to do something different what what introduced

you to ramsey how did you get this stuff going so my sister and brother-in-law actually had paid off a lot of over 175 000 a couple years ago and it

was thanksgiving of 2019 and we just

found out we were pregnant and so um and

i just talking to her you know at casual thanksgiving dinner and i was just kind of like well we we have all this debt and we don't really know what to what to do but we i just i showed an interest in wanting to pay it off and so she just very gently mentioned you and

that your podcast and she was just like this is easy to listen to you know on the way to work or while you're working out or whatever and so the very next day on our drive home um we listened to our first podcast and something just clicked to blake has he was the nerd i'm the free spirit and he has always been good with money he tried to put us put us on a budget right

when we first got married and i laughed and um i was just like no but uh no but after listening i don't know it was just something about it was just easy to listen to you and just kind of get what we needed to you know to get going and then um it clicked and so that was thanksgiving and so january of 2020 we

started executing our plan we're like okay this is what we're going to do you know the the baby steps everything they my same sister and brother-in-law gifted us the total money mocha money makeover and so we read that and you know like a week and then we were pretty gung-ho and then covet happened a couple months later i was pregnant um and we were very

lucky that we kept our jobs and um you know we didn't have to lose any income so that was a blessing but um so covet actually helped us because we didn't do anything we weren't going anywhere and i was pregnant so it was like we weren't really going to go out and do anything anyways and so um that it made it was initially a two-year goal and we ended up doing it in 15 months wow you blew through it yeah yeah and it was just it was all the the debt snowballs

it's just it works it gave us all the momentum in the world so what was uh maybe one of the most radical kind of get after it intense things you guys did in this journey so i think uh one of the things was uh saying no to everything so like it was so hard that you know we're sitting there and all our friends are going to beautiful trips

and everything or they're wanting to go to dinner or anything and we were just having like no i'm sorry we can't and it was just hard the fear of missing out type thing but once we got over that and then i think the probably the one of the things was we were expecting our first child and so i wanted to go crazy with the nursery and and doing all

the things you know that a mom wants to with their first kid and well that's unusual no one ever does that yeah and we didn't

have any money because we were paying off all this debt and so we didn't buy one piece of furniture for the nursery we it was everything was given to us or hand-me-downs or i mean we just we didn't have to go use any of our money

for our snowball and it turns out two-month-olds aren't that picky about where they sleep right yeah right so that was that i think that was probably one of the hardest yeah that's hard that's a big deal yeah it's a big deal not decorating the nursery except with uh things that folks give you that's a big deal yeah and it i like i like it a lot but it's a big deal yeah very cool good for

you guys well you just proved the difference in a need and a what the kid needs a place to sleep a want is everything you want around them they don't even know what's there right it's all about it's all about mom making a nest and dad making a nest or dad making momma nest or however that works but yeah it's uh it's real yeah so

absolutely and people spend an amazing amount of money on that stuff yeah and the baby literally does not care at all not even a little bit not even a little bit yeah so way to go you guys all right what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is uh one of the things that i think is uh communication and collaboration but uh the main thing was

the the budget and i think that every dollar app was just mind-blowing for us and we sat down every month and at the beginning of it you know we assessed what we could do and then you know at the end of it it was easy to say no when it was the category was zero it's sorry and then and then i would just say going into it knowing that

you know mentally it's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term reward i mean if you go into it thinking oh this is going to be a bree i mean nobody really thinks it's going to be a breeze but if you think that it's going to be easier than it really is then i think people get stuck a few months in and they get frustrated and they're you know

they just give up and i think we very really we just sat down

every month and was just like this is our goal this is what we want to do and 15 months is literally nothing in the grand scheme of things and so and i mean i'm so glad we did that it's just it's been it's an amazing feeling especially now having the baby he's 15 months old now and um it's just it's a it's a whole new world i could i can't imagine uh still having that much debt and also taking care of

you know a baby absolutely yeah absolutely well

congratulations thank you who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you definitely my sister and brother-in-law that got us on we got started every time we paid off a credit card we'd send them a screenshot yeah i like it they celebrated us through and through and then my parents and blake's parents and just yeah and even like our friends and coworkers like everyone was super supportive

they really were cool loved the journey for us that's cool so who all came on the trip with you my parents and um our baby is over there yeah okay all right cool all right your baby's name is what asher now do you want asher in the shot for this or yeah yeah we'll make it all right cool very cool good good good we've got a copy of

the legacy journey for you that is the next chapter in your story for sure you've changed your family tree way to go you guys excellent job and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away when someone at thanksgiving mentions that they need some help you'll have a book you can hand them very good stuff blake and macy and asher asher's

life has been changed by his mom and dad dallas texas 66 000 paid off in 15

months making 133 to 143 count it down

let's hear a debt free scream three two one

[Applause] i love it i love it

well at the break we're going to interview asher about the psychological damage of having been brought home from the hospital into a used baby bed yeah you can just see the little guy scarred right there he looks like he's struggled yeah he looks and it looks like it's you know the wallpaper on the wall was not right in that nursery i'm just saying there's there's a permanent damage done here didn't have a branch those parents should be assuming what do they call those things that like thank you dave

dave's got all the baby stuff dialed in now yeah including the expense of nurseries although i didn't write a single check for any of them but um i am privy to the process all of them i've toured all of them at lengths at various times of day and and even into the evenings yes it has happened so yeah that's it's uh but i i hey same thing happened

when the ramsey kids were coming home a million years ago or the coleman kids you gotta have a gotta have a special room gotta have a special thing but we in america go nuts what we spend on our pets would support egypt oh don't even get me started on that one i love my pets and you love yours too but man oh man what we spend on halloween what americans spend on halloween would do away from with hunger for most of

the people in america that have hunger issues by the way the kids these days dave are getting full-sized candy bars i grew up in their old days when we got a little tiny little one half of a bite well that's what's wrong with the world this is just saying it's just a spool it's just awful it's just awful this is the ramsay show [Music]

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well you're hearing all these debt-free screams and you're thinking about fall stuff you got to buy like halloween candy and jackets and sweaters christmas is coming up christmas sneaks up on people every year like they move it or something it's always in december i'll just put christmas on a credit card again what do you think you are in congress hey when you plan ahead with a budget

you can keep christmas from getting out of control and the best way to do that is with our world-class budgeting tool every dollar and you can sync up with that and go through financial peace university at ramsey plus with a ramsey plus membership and every dollar working along with financial peace university inside ramsey plus gives you everything you want stress free you can get control you can be

the these people you were just listening to start budgeting with every dollar by texting budget to 33 789 text budget to 33789

dan is with us in hudson wisconsin hey dan welcome to the ramsey show hey dave thank you how are you doing better than i deserve what's up

i just want to give you and ken and your team a huge shout out my wife and i recently became 100 percent debt-free here we go everything so we are super grateful for all you and your team do uh my question tonight on baby step seven part of what we're doing we're self-employed we have a small business

is to up the contributions for our

iras for our employees

we currently have a simple ira we're matching three percent and i was told that three percent of the max that we can do in a simple ira that's true um okay and then would it be worth going into a 401k and i was how many employees do you have

we have six uh talk with your smartvestor pro about this the simple ira is a 401k for small business but it is very um structured it requires that you put in three percent no more no less as a match and it's 100 vested from day one for anybody that goes in uh the 401k could cost you as much as

five or ten thousand dollars a year in administrative fees and across five or six employees that seems like a waste um so it might be the way to do this is

with a sep ira you can do that in addition to

the simple ira the sep plan the simplified employee pension plan says any employee that's been with you three more than three of the last five years you are required to put into that the same percentage of your income that you put in for you that's why a lot of people don't use it

so it works really good for a solopreneur like if i want to just dump a bunch of money into retirement plan but if i've got employees been with me more than three the last five years and i put in 15 of my income i have to put in 15 of their income for them and so you're wanting to do that so this

might work really well for you you know you're not required to put in any amount but and you can change it year to year so you could come up on the end of the year and go hey this year i'm going to put in seven percent of my income and i'm putting in seven percent of everybody else's in addition to doing the simple okay and so you

the good news about it is it would give you flexibility you don't have to do anything uh depending on how your profits go that year and you could decide you know you could do a little bit through the year and then pop it up at the end and you know jack the numbers up at the end of the year if you wanted to so check with your smartvestor pro uh

if you're not working with one go to ramseysolutions.com and click smart investor those are the people we recommend in the investment world it'll drop down a list of the ones in your area you can pick one from that list and they'll all be people that we have vetted and people that have the heart of a teacher very cool when a guy has six employees and wants to make sure he's taking care of their retirement brings up

the old phrase dave you said a billion times if you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else and this is the backbone of america right here there's a young man they've done the hard work they've they've become debt free now he wants to pour into his employees i mean that's phenomenal yeah that right there no one requiring no he's calling

and asking yeah that was passed it was not a a an executive order no

it was not the irs looking into his bank account no it wasn't any of that stuff it was just a guy who did well and thought you know i want to share with the team that helped me get here yeah and um

knowing that they could leave and take that money with them yeah they can at any time that's the rule but uh what a great heart i love that yes robert is with us in california hey robert welcome to the ramsey show

hello um yeah so my question is very related to

ken's book that he's been working on and

basically i have two job offers both really good offers but one of them is substantially higher than the other and the one that's higher is working for a really big tech corporation that i wouldn't necessarily be super excited about and the one that's lower is a job i'd be much more excited about but it's a lot lower it's like uh 70 000 left so i'm

wondering what you what are the two numbers uh it's like 240 total compensation versus 170

doing what software development for the tech corporation what's the other option 240 and 170.

yeah but what's the what kind is it both tech jobs tech development yeah they're both software which one's a big company yeah they're both software development but the the smaller uh the lower one of the smaller company that's doing work that i think is actually interesting where i would be much more excited to like go to my job every day as opposed to exactly all right so

let's ask this question for that company you're more excited is there a ladder what does it look like a year two three years down the line if you take the 170 doing the work that you're interested in

so they've definitely assured me that there's a ladder but it's a little harder to find information on how much of a ladder there is because the companies the the lower salary one that i'm more excited about is only a year and a half old as a company so there's not a lot of information on how the ladder's been for other people yeah what do you make currently you've got two offers what are you currently making i currently make about 130.

two more than option one and if there is a ladder it seems that there is i'm always going to say follow your heart and do the work that you're excited about if there is a ladder and it sounds like there so that's where i would go because i think money's not enough to sustain you completely agree only i'm going to do a modified option one i'm going to go back in and go guys my heart is here this is what i want to do i love what you're doing i want to be plugged in i got this other offer for 240.

help me help me figure out a way to come here

yeah so i mean they probably they're not going to go to 240. i didn't say that i didn't say you had to match it i just said help me figure out a way to come here and then they you know and it could it could be that they very clearly outline a detailed ladder on a calendar yes it could be that they offer you stock options in this startup that are worth a whole heck of a lot more than 70.

right that's true they could give you some points in the deal what the stock is going to be worth you take you a couple deal points and and you take this job yeah but you go back in and you ju you just smile and you just say i really want to come here help me figure out a way right that's a great point and then just let them squirm and start answering that question that don't you don't tell them what the answer is and here's what's going to happen a they're going to give you a more more than 170.

let this let the let the pressure fall in the room on the other side of the table gently kindly say i really want to come here these other people are offering me 240.

this is james childs producer of the ramsay show you can listen to all our shows with the ramsay network app on your smartphone browse by topic or even send clips to your friends download the ramsay network app in your favorite app store today [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where that is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice and the paid off student loan has taken the place of the bmw as the

status symbol of choice george camel ramsey personality host of the fine

print a new podcast out on ramsey networks is my co-host for this very special theme hour on the ramsey show as we celebrate the launch of the new documentary borrowed future we're going to talk student loans this hour if you want to talk about student loans you got a question about student loans you have a success story about student loans you think they're awesome you think they're

the most horrible thing on the planet uh you have an opinion about anything you want to talk about as long as that's that subject you call triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five borrowed future is out of the gate it has launched george and it's already moving the needle and it's it's climbing the charts and for good reason i've already seen

the feedback one woman said she's watched it twice already before 9 am that's impressive she was so fired up about this she's telling everyone about it her daughter all of her friends it's one of those that you can't help but you have to tell everyone you need to go watch this today if you don't know what borrowed future is it's our new documentary it launches today on apple tv on google play

and on amazon

prime and you can also watch it at borrowedfuture.com and if you're a teacher you can it's all a standard documentary it's what 4.99 to rent it whatever 8.99 to buy it or whatever the normal thing is on that stuff and uh just like anything else you look to see a first class documentary on something this is all about the student loan world

how the student how student loans are

basically killing the american dream it's called borrowed future be sure you tune into it again amazon prime google

play apple tv it's number two in the documentary already today of all documentaries on apple yeah so it's moving you guys are watching it like crazy you're sharing it if you're a teacher and you want to show this to your students it's free go to borrowedfuture.com i'm going to tell you that about a hundred times this hour but it's time to talk about these student loans and how out of control

they are george did you have a student loan yeah i had 36 000 it was i think the average at the time so i was very average hmm

how long it took you to pay it off uh 18 months once i got on this plan once you got serious about it you knocked it out fast yeah i didn't realize you could get rid of them i just thought it's something you just keep as a pet uh until your adult life and maybe take it to the grave if you have to yeah i had 3 200

wow way back there it was 1982 right

and um yeah and i had way more than that on my amaco card my gas credit card because in those days if you went out in the country you could buy a couch on your gas credit card i mean it was you know crazy stuff so uh but yeah it was a different different world and certainly tuition was different and but uh so was the cost of living gasoline was under a dollar

you know that a gallon and that kind of thing so that's how long ago that 1982 was for you people but uh student loans have

continued to grow to where it has become and uh just a weight on people to where they can't breathe it's just so normal i mean most people you meet that's the one thing you're going to have in common is oh you've got a student loan too great how much is yours and then you laugh about it because you can't fathom because you can't cry about it but only

so much exactly if you when you can't cry you laugh and so this is a huge issue and as we explored this two years ago while we were doing the borrowed future podcast which you hosted which i hosted the documentary team was just getting started on this so this was two years ago and watching that team develop the story and iterate and iterate to tell the right story has been absolutely incredible well we're storytellers here

and i gotta tell you when you're telling a story there's a process to telling a story uh if you're going to do it properly there's a villain there's a hero there's a guide and there's a story arc

and there's a process you build to pull someone through a story and we had a

serious problem with this documentary

there were too many villains there were villains everywhere you don't know who to point the finger at is it sally may is it the guidance counselors is it the parents is it the student loan company person who signed up for the loan the person who signed up there's kind of hard to blame them although they did sign up for it but they're in just such a pitiful horrible situation

and you want to cry with them rather than beat them up yeah yeah we're not mad at you if you took out the students i mean i'm not mad at it you know i am mad at the banks i think they're out of control um you know there's only been two or three times in my career 30 years here on the air that elizabeth warren and i have agreed on something

and uh because i'm a capitalist pig and she's a socialist um and uh she's a very

bright lady and i've actually had her on the air here back in the day we were fighting a bankruptcy bill that the republicans put through uh at the behest of the bankers and it was a bad bill and it's a bad law and it's still in place uh modification is the bankruptcy law and she and i were on the same side of that ted kennedy was the three of us were fighting against that and we all lost of course uh and but she's come out today and of

course if you haven't heard uh naviant uh six million student loan borrowers are far better off after yet another major company announced it will shut down its services elizabeth warren said like like elizabeth warren calls navient to shut down come on elizabeth you didn't cause this but yeah no one uh

no one is crying a tear that navient is gone navient one of the largest student loan companies unveiled plans to end its federal loan services the student loan industry on tuesday received yet another major shake up when navient became the third company to announce its plans to end its federal student loan program amid regulatory crackdowns this year senator elizabeth warren had one message for the company good riddance

i would agree with you senator warren navient has spent decades misleading cheating and abusing student borrowers the federal student loan program will be far better off without them the federal student loan program would be far better off if it didn't exist senator warren it has not been a blessing to anyone except people like navient and people like you who used it to get votes navient which collects

the federal student loan debt of 6 million borrowers said in a press release that it's working with the education department to approve the transition of those borrowers to another loan company called maximus that's it that's comforting that's a comforting maximus what interest maximus interest that's scary maximus

screwjob so you just get traded to the next one can't make this up they're gonna call it maximus

oh boy this is fabulous this is what's wild richard cordray head of the federal student aid office he said earlier this month student loan companies are choosing to shut down rather than face more accountability

because they've been screwing people they go hey this ship is sinking let's get out of here well we we we didn't got caught with our hand in the cookie jar we got all the cookies out of this we're gonna get we're gone baby we're gonna get out of here before we end up the subject of a federal investigation and get more than shut down yeah that's what that's what's going on here they're not doing anyone favors

but themselves here yeah and i got to tell you the democrats and the republicans uh did put pressure on navient for its misbehavior and thank you i will go along with you senator warren uh good riddance to naviant

ciao baby student loans we're bringing people from across the aisle today bring all maximus bring our maximus maximus interest [Laughter] [Music] maximus

oh i can't believe it [Music]

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it's a student loan theme hour we're talking student loans in honor of today's premier launch of the new documentary borrowed future

you can view it anywhere you view great documentaries like google play amazon prime apple tv and it borrowed

future.com stockton is with us in phoenix arizona hey stockton welcome to the ramsey show good afternoon um i graduated graduate school a year ago with two hundred thousand dollars student debt at seven percent my question is the recommendation is to get out of debt except for a home the home debt is okay what if my student loans is as much as a home would cost is the recommendation to still pay off the student loans renting during that time and if so that'll be 10 plus years

what's your graduate degree in i'm a chiropractor okay and so what are you going to be making

uh i just started a job here in phoenix 85 000 a year okay and so you you plan to pay 15 000 a

year on the student loans yes well that sucks yeah that's pretty lame you ought to pay a lot more than 15 000 if you're making 80 and you should be making more than 80 as your chiropractic career grows would you agree with me yeah the hope is definitely to make more eventually um as i grow in the company and whatnot the other issue what did you make

but the year before you graduated what was your income 50 000 associates in chiropractic don't can be taken advantage of and i was last year so i didn't make very good money last year yeah okay so what if you lived on 35 000

and put the rest of it towards the student loan debt yeah that was one of the reasons why we postponed getting a home is is to hopefully throw more money at the student loans the only issue is to live in a rental home where my wife and our kids feel comfortable walking the street our rental is 1600 a month and that

doesn't include the administration fees the hoa fees and other fees associated with the renting so that's something that i struggle with is being able to throw all my money at student loans yet my rental i feel like is taking more money than it should i'll tell you as as a homeowner

it's very expensive and i'm not talking about the mortgage payment versus the rent payment i'm talking about home ownership in general so if you can't afford to rent you definitely can't afford to be a homeowner and so what i want you to do is focus on these student loans first i want you to buy a house i want you to have that american dream but as we talk about in

the documentary student loans are killing that dream because you've got this bear of a payment in your life and you've got a great income it's going to continue to go up and like dave saying this thing's gone three and three to four years from now stockton here's the thing you have two choices you can go the way that you're you're trying to your emotions are taking you where you're justifying

this and you're figuring out a way that it takes forever and so you go ahead and buy a house and now you've got a house payment and you've got the cost of home ownership that georgia's talking about and your career will move along and it will take you 10 years to get out of that or more if you go that route or you can do the thing that

we have taught and many many chiropractors have done what i teach and they roll up their sleeves and they say not today i'm going to engage in a

different treatment program for the patient i'm

going to roll up my sleeves we're going to do nothing around this house we're not going to do anything except get out of debt we're going to clean up this mess so that as my career grows i get to

actually keep the freaking money instead of sending it all to sallie mae navient or maximus so uh this is going to be too much fun i'm looking forward to the next decade of this well and so uh yeah the uh uh yeah

but right now the the state of mind you're in you're going to be in debt a long time because you bought the lie that you're stuck and you bought the lie that you might as well just keep this like it's a freaking backache or you can do the i

just told a chiropractor like that i just said that i did that on purpose that was a metaphor that he would understand and so yeah the uh i hope so

you you're gonna either engage in the extreme measures to get the extreme results or you're gonna be normal and i sound like you talking to one of your patients with the treatment program you put in so you got to decide physician heal thyself sierra is with us sierra is in what did

i do there she's in uh did i did i i gotcha didn't i got it i managed to pull it off in san antonio hey sierra how are you i'm good how are you good now to back story for our listeners you were here just the other day with your parents who did their debt-free scream they were amazing you were amazing and we called you back because of while they're doing their debt-free screaming talking about getting out of debt

they said and oh by the way our daughter who was going into college while we're getting out of debt managed to go and get her degree debt free and you're an impressive young lady i remember remember meeting you the other day thanks for coming on with us thank you for having me i really appreciate it it was a lot of fun being able to uh watch my parents tell their story

and then now i get the chance this online so i'm super excited cool so your degree is in what i got a degree in marketing from where

stephen at austin state university in nacogdoches texas vacuum checks there you go and you did this 100 debt free how weird are you how did you do that

yeah so um it really all started with a plan that my dad and i put together my senior year of high school um it was getting down to the wire i pretty much had um my own plan actually figured out i thought i did at the time i had the school i wanted to go to i had the acceptance letter i had you know room and board figured out um i just didn't have the money to pay for it so that was the biggest uh thing that

i had to figure out and so my parents sat me down and they were like look you know we want you to go to school we're just not going to go into debt in order for you to do that and so i kind of had to just come into terms with the fact that i wasn't going to have that first year college experience that i was looking forward to but there was a bigger picture at hand and so my dad and i

devised a plan and we basically figured out how much it was going to take or how much i would have to save to go to the university of my choice which was sfa for the last two years so four semesters

we got that number and then we figured out how much i needed to be saving monthly in order to reach that goal at the end of my first two years at my community college and so while i went to community

college for the first two years i worked i would say at least 40 hours a week every week and i was saving pretty much my entire check what were you doing what kind of work oh i worked at a local grocery store and you were how old i was 17 at the time so 17 18 years old

you're in community college for the first two years and you're working and saving to do the last two years at your dream school correct wow right so is that what happened yes i did i was making about i want to say maybe 13 an hour and i was able to actually finish a community college a little bit early i finished in three semesters instead of four so because of the high school credits that i took i mean the college credits that i took in high school um i was able to finish up so you did like some ap classes that got college credit correct they were like dual credit cards which sped up how fast you got through and was made you did not take those classes so it saved your money correct ding ding ding ding ding ding wow yeah so that helped me out a lot i was able to finish an entire semester early at community college so that last semester i just worked i mean i was working every day every night i actually ended up taking on a second job because the one job that i had i wasn't going to reach my goal in time when did you graduate i graduated um i graduated high school 2016 finished community college in 2018 and then graduated um from sfa this past may 2020.

new marketing job not yet currently i work at ernst young one of the uh big four accounting firms as a financial analyst right now but without the the mike

i make about forty seven thousand family i love you you're amazing incredible incredible okay key point made a plan my dad was a parent my dad did two things he took dead off the table not an option my dad helped me plan you picked up on it george yeah she made a plan rachel cruz says we don't have a student loan crisis we have a parenting crisis

i believe that moms and dads are letting their 18 year olds run off into a ditch and watching them do it instead of grabbing you and going no debt plan no debt plan work sounds like dad stuff sounds like mom stuff this is the ramsey show

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it's a student loan theme hour here on the ramsey show open phones at triple eight eight two five two george campbell if you want to talk about student loans this is your place george campbell ramsey personality is my co-host he is the current host he was the original host of the borrowed future podcast which actually gave us the inspiration and the idea to turn it all into a documentary

and george did a great job with that millions and millions of you have listened to borrowed future podcast uh i think it was 10 12 episodes yeah it was eight and now nine we released a bonus one today oh bonus episode on podcast today yeah updating everyone to go with the launch on the documentary and of course he's also the host of the new ramsey network's production called

the fine print and you can listen to him there all the time i want to go back to sierra's story for a minute she's incredible a young lady comes in says i'm going to go to college and i have no idea i'm going to pay for it and there's no way i have the money as if the money's going to just rain from heaven which is you

you were interviewing some students some high school students recently and you started asking them and it freaked them all out basic questions what it was going to cost what do they want to do what was it going to cost how are they going to pay for it and you would have thought it was an interrogation room and i went oh my gosh their parents have never talked to them about

this stuff well their parents have never thought about it either they probably what are you studying

that's matters and that you can get a job because you paid money to get a degree not i got a degree in left-handed puppetry and then i'm shocked that i'm serving coffee come on moms and dads you got better sense than this but sierra's dad said no you're going to study marketing consequently she's got a job straight out of college making almost 50 grand and that young woman

there she'll be making double that in just a handful of years i promise you uh she's incredible and then the second thing dad did was he said no we're not going to borrow money which means that we need a plan we need a plan so how are we going to do this well she worked her tail end off oh by the way working while you're in college is not child abuse call

the ambulance you don't get to participate in the beer pong tournament you'll survive

you're there to get a degree to gather knowledge this is what you're paying for not how much alcohol you can consume

and whether the football team is good or not will not affect your future career they don't ask about that when you do the job interview who knew who knew you know yeah it's conversation piece oh you went to so-and-so and they suck at football that's the only thing that comes up and then it moved right along right oh my god you know and so the the the uh student experience that we're paying 150 grand for somebody shoot me

and get it this over with really instead we're going to end up with maximus debt as us that's the new lender if you maximus debt is us navi just renamed them i just renamed the whole thing i'm going to have so much fun with this it's just you're right it sounds like a villain from a saturday morning cartoon maximus dedicated that is us i love it it's frightening

so parents moms and dads you can stop

this watch borrowed future scare you straight scare your kids straight and it'll also make you vote your congressman out of office because they're idiots they keep the student loan thing in place and then they go around we need to forgive student loans well student loans are so evil elizabeth warren that we need to forgive them she tweeted that today by the way if we need to forgive

the student loans elizabeth warren why aren't you passing legislation to stop making them oh that would be intellectually dishonest oh wait a minute you're a politician oh women you're a democrat oh my god seriously huh are you riled up i'm riled up we did it i have for 30 years worked with people whose lives have been screwed up by this and it doesn't affect me at all yeah

i don't have student loans like i said 3 500 years ago when the dinosaurs roamed the earth nobody cares about my student loan debt but i tell you what talking these people their lives unbelievable carol is with us carol is in philadelphia carol your student loan question or comment hi thank you for having me i just had a comment about student loans and my back story i am 46 years old

and i still have 101 000 left in student loans i was

double dumb and went back to college twice and took out loans twice um i just didn't know any better before you know following dave ramsey

and personalities yeah

i still have to rent an apartment um i

only have a thousand dollars in my emergency fund i've never really fully been able to invest i always thought investing was you know for the rich people um and it's

just from my background neither of my parents went to college they had no idea what you know they could never teach me what were your degrees in well the first degree was in history which if you don't go to grad school and you don't want to be a teacher is basically like left-handed puppetry

when you graduate so and then i worked in an office in my 20s and then in my 30s i decided to go back i always wanted to be an architect so i got an architecture degree um but i went through a private school yes yes i'm doing financially well how much do you make next year i am making 80 000. that's good okay so now we're going to claw our way out of this okay good exactly exactly so um but i just would

tell anybody don't take out student loans at all it's

not a good roi you know sally mae is not in my spare bedroom i'm living in her basement it feels like right now you know she owns the house i'm just a tenant yes exactly exactly um and i i think people are so they want to get done in four years and they want to start their life and you know at 17 and 18 i didn't know what

i want to do most people don't know what they want to do at that age i think it's better to take your time work you know build your savings to be able to go it's okay to go to school part-time you don't need to go to the party school you don't need to live away from home it's just you really have to think about it i wish

they would have taught it in high school um so yeah it's it's tough it's it's not easy carol i'm proud of you for facing the monster i think you're going to win i think you've turned the corner i will win my goal is to get it all paid off before i'm 50 because i do not want student loans in my 50s there you go that's a good that's a good goal

and you're gonna get there i mean it's four years you're gonna make it you're gonna do it that's 25 000 a year making 80 grand you can do that and um i i got faith in you and thank you for telling your story though because it is a wake-up call and again we go back to studying something that's applicable someone got an architecture degree now that actually works hello

and studying something studying at a school see here's the thing okay i'm not mad at you if you want to go to a famous school and pay a lot of money

i mean 70 80 000 a year okay vanderbilt

right here in nashville 70 something thousand bucks a year tuition okay university of tennessee in-state tuition state school twelve thousand dollars so is vanda are we saying vanderbilt is seven times your income is going to be seven times as much if you go to vanderbilt as if you go ut well i know this is not a fact because i went to the university of tennessee and people that weren't went to vanderbilt worked for me

so i know the 7x thing doesn't work and oh well i make connections with what other broke people who are you connecting with other people who didn't have the ability to look for a value now again i'm not i've got relatives that graduate from vanderbilt they're very smart and vanderbilt is academically superior it's not 7x superior no not even close

not even close and if you go 300 000 in debt to go there it's an indication you're not superior yeah your your lack of judgment is unbelievable and so i'm picking on vanderbilt but they're just an example of one of the famous schools that's a they're the southern ivy league if you want to call it there's a lot of pride and you went my my mom and dad went

there and so i've got to go hard to get into it's right it's very prestigious the football team well maybe not there's not there but a lot of times you make these decisions based on where mom and dad went what the experience is going to be like what the football team is like not can we afford it and is this going to get me the degree that

i can get the job in the field that i'm passionate about we're not thinking that way we took a call here on the air just a few months ago a young lady in south carolina was talking about going to oxford to mississippi and i said why are you going to mississippi instead of south carolina it's 14 000 or more because of out-of-state tuition a reason the town is pretty

ah

i'm gonna lose my mind where are your parents this is the ramsay show

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our scripture of the day first peter 5 6 and 7 7 humble yourselves therefore under god's mighty hand that he may lift you up in due time cast all your anxiety

on him because he cares for you martin luther king said no work is insignificant all labor that uplifts humanity has dignity and importance and should be undertaken with painstaking

excellence george campbell is my co-host today this is a student loan hour as we celebrate the premier launch today of our first documentary it's called borrowed future

how student loans are killing the

american dream you can watch it on apple tv rent it for 499 google play amazon prime or borrowed future.com or

you can buy it and download it like you would a great documentary of other kinds so be sure and check that out darnell is with us in huh raleigh north carolina hey darnell what's up hey dave i'm will how are you better than i deserve how can we help yeah so um i was calling because i just finished watching the ball feature documentary and it's gotten me thinking about my student loans and my repayment plan i'm especially considering that i'm going to be graduating soon and i'll have to start paying them um so so far my student loans have been kind of in the background one because you know i have four years to work on paying them well to consider how i would pay them but i also went back to school right after so um so they've really been in the background for a while but after watching the documentary it's kind of gotten me thinking of what the best repayment plan is yeah how much student loan debt do you have right now i have 38 000 and i'm gonna have to accept another five thousand to finish off okay she had 45 000 give or take by the time all this smoke clears and your degree is going to be in what um this will be my masters of business administration good good okay when will you graduate uh may of 22.

okay all right and so well between now and then what i'd prefer you do is work your tail end off and let's see if we can not take out any more loans won't you see if you can cash flow the rest of it that's the first thing let's stop doing harm and then from there george when he gets out and gets the job yeah as soon as

you get a job uh that money is not going to go to you it's going to go to lenders and you're going to work your tail off probably get a second job and get rid of this debt it's 43k if you've got an mba and you're making 50 60k you can get rid of this debt in two years or less yeah exactly so it's possible beans and rice rice

and beans dude you don't come out and buy a new car you don't come out and buy a house you don't come out and spend a bunch of money you don't come out and act like your top dog you're not your bottom dog you've got 45 grand about in student loan debt you got to clean up and that's so that's mission one the quicker you knock that out

the quicker you get on with the rest of your life and you get to benefit from this education the longer you keep this around it's more going to be like trying to swim with concrete concrete shoes on don't do it we just took that call from the 46 year old still paying on her loans i don't want that to be you darnell i want you to have your entire adult life student loan free good observation nadia is with us in houston texas hi nadia hi it's nadia nadia

i messed it up i'm

sorry okay nadia my bad i remember seeing you the other day on my daughter's show rachel cruz and you were impressive and i told them to reach out and see if you would come on thank you for doing that thank you for having me now you went through school debt free tell us your story right quick absolutely i actually got my start in community college through bureaucratic courses when i was in high school i started at 12 graduated from my with my

associates when i finished high school at 16 and then went to my four-year university finished off my four-year degree in another two years and graduated debt-free at team with a degree in what political science okay what are you doing uh right now i'm actually saving up money so i can cash flow for grad school and in hopes to become either a social worker a social worker or a child advocacy lawyer okay i like b because i think you're incredible i i was watching your your why i watched your presence and your poise on the air with rachel it was absolutely and you currently are 20 years old i'm no sir i'm 18.

that's that's i think that's doing your part so your mom and dad immigrated from where jamaica from jamaica and they said we're coming to america we're going to change our family tree so by god you're doing this yes absolutely and one thing i appreciate is they would never helicopter parents because i know so many people their parents are just on them so much they don't have any room to grow my parents are always like

you know what you need to do make sure you handle your business and then we don't need to be overbearing in any way they treated you like an adult absolutely i was 12 in in a

community college i was taking classes with adults so well they're in that respect and kept it yes sir so you're are you uh have you been tested for intelligence are you like a savant or something i have it i did skip to grades kindergarten in first grade so i went from preschool to second that was the last time i took an educational test like that i can't skip lunch

and she's just skipping grades over here you are very you're impressive well i think i think you've got i think you've got a high level of intelligence but i think you've got a higher level of uh drive and really and that comes from a higher power yes absolutely yeah no question no question god being involved in your all's lives and uh if you guys want to hear more of uh nadia did

i say it right that time you sure did nadia's story you can see rachel here on rachel cruz's show on youtube uh which comes up pretty regularly that's where i picked it up and i was i was just thumbing through rachel's show and i'm like whoa look at this young lady she's amazing so uh the

ke your your thing was you worked your tail off you went to community college you got school credit for school classes you were taking you rolled that up so you didn't have to take as many classes and you do the whole thing in four years uh now did you get all scholarships or were you working to pay for it uh i actually got my first job when

i was already a junior at howard university and i use that to pay off some of my books and things and just additional expenses due to the pandemic but i didn't get a full ride from howard a lot of it was external scholarships like i mentioned on the show i'm not the product but like these big 10 20 30 000 scholarships i'm the product of 50 scholarships

and 100 and 200 because a lot of people snubbed their nose at those but i was the person like if there's any scholarship y'all are going to give me i will apply take my chances and keep collecting the winnings so out of the total how many dollars in scholarships did you collect do you think i don't know the exact amount but i know

with the other schools that i didn't choose to attend in total the last time i checked was over two million dollars offered when you considered like the tuition and full rides from other schools i was offering yeah but the actual when you add up all those fifty dollar ones and all that and actual cash dollars that went towards your school well you think it's ten thousand or fifty thousand it's probably closer to fifty thousand

and ten yeah wow and how many different scholarships do you think you had you said you had a lot of little ones

well over fifty yeah so they averaged under a thousand dollars a piece yeah is the point yeah that's what it's not about 20 000 scholarships and full rides you've got to apply for the little ones it adds up guys this can be done you just have to pay attention and when you don't pay attention to any area of your life including your education your kids education including your wealth including your debt you wake up and you're normal and your life sucks

and these people that have wanted this were not zombies they did not sleepwalk they paid attention their dads and moms paid attention so this is what borrowed future is about it's trying to get america to pay attention to an epic

and epic failure called the student loan program it is a failure it needs to stop yeah you've got to make a decision once you watch this documentary you have to decide if you're going to be a part of this system any longer if you're going to let your kids be a part of that system and your friends be a part of that system so every living breathing person needs to watch

this documentary the stories are inspiring there's some heartbreaking stuff there's some amazing experts featured on there and it's 90 minutes and it is a world-class feature film documentary i'm so proud of this team and what impact this is gonna have yeah me too borrowed future again you can watch it at google play amazon prime and apple tv as well as borrow future dot com if you are a teacher show

it to your class for free uh and so far today we've had several hundred teachers already sign up for that which gives me hope you can do that we gonna stir up a ruckus boys and girls check it out that puts us our the ramsey show in the books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace

and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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## 210. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 15, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsay show and it's where america is hanging out to have a conversation about your life i'm ken coleman i'm joined by my colleague ramsey personality george campbell the phone number to jump in on the conversation today is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five

i will uh dive in on your work questions you wanna get a bigger shovel ken i wanna get promoted how do i make more money so i could speed up the baby steps i'm your guy i'll help you get a bigger shovel uh some of you going ken i just need help because i don't enjoy what i do i'm on my way i'm paying off debt i'm wanting to know can

i work the baby steps but also take steps towards doing work that i really really love pursuing the dream is that possible the answer is yes we'll take on your specific situation and of course george is here our money guru he's going to help you with your money questions as well and so it may be the day for some of you to call in and go you know what uh

i need to call i'm nervous about calling uh we will change your name and your location we understand that these questions many times many times are very very sensitive george and we have no problem changing your name and location so that you feel confident to call in and get some help so we are here standing by triple eight eight two five five two two five got some fun stuff we're gonna cover today george

you doing well i'm doing fantastic you just had the minimalists on your show yeah must have been a good time good time and uh i must say uh for

those that will uh see you on youtube today uh this shirt is very interesting i don't find that uh you are much of a football fan from what i know of you and yet you have miniature classic old football players and uh footballs all over your shirt today i i think it's irony and i find humor and irony so you bought it because you thought this will be a funny shirt to wear pretty much yeah

you ever do that no okay just me yeah i i don't try to be funny but but i like what you're doing there it's a great shirt it's football season there's probably a big game somewhere yeah this weekend so oh i see you just you sat back and i see that you've got a grill yeah it's it's just football culture grilling football yeah all right and george just learned recently what football is

so that makes it even more this is why you've got to watch the show yeah you get to see things like that that's exactly right nnhd maybe we'll have the guys zoom in on your shirt later in the program and we'll do a full diagram and break down but let's get to the phones that's why we're here to help you it is your show we're going to start off with marcia who joins us in atlanta georgia

marcia how can we help oh thanks for taking my call you bet um

my husband and i um have been working the ramsey plan about two years ago and we sold our home and we paid off over 140 000 worth of credit card bills wow

140 000 in credit card bills yes my husband was

i guess he was just caught up in uh trying to get extra cards to pay you know and transfer

uh balances and just got caught up in a lot of credit card names what was he buying

well we had we were uh you could call it

living the vida local uh living that's great i love this but you know what matters marcia is that you guys got on the same page and paid this off that's unbelievable

we did now that we are in a situation um that i really need some help with uh we have over 300 300 000 worth of student loans

uh between myself and him

and we have five investment properties three we own outright and two we have a mortgage on

and you know we're thinking should we sell

uh investment properties to just get this student loan out of our lives that's the only debt that we have now or should we

continue to rent these properties and just use our income to pay off the student loans what is your household income our household income is about 200 000 okay great income there and you've got 300 000 in student loans making 200 i mean if you wanted to if you wanted to get intense you can just use your income and pay off these student loans now if i'm in your shoes

and i've got five rental properties uh two of them having a mortgage on them i want you to be completely debt-free as soon as possible so if i'm you i'm selling one or two of those mortgage pro properties to pay off these loans what are these properties worth well um

they were they're both worth about 200 000 but one of i mean we paid dirt cheap

for them like 20 000 so

well the mortgage for all the mortgage properties sorry um the mortgage property is probably about two hundred and fifty thousand and one is worth two

hundred thousand what do you have what do you owe on each on on the one that's worth two hundred thousand zero sixty 000 on that one and the other one we owe

123.

wow so there's your answer i'm hearing if you sell the two with the mortgage on them you could pretty much be debt free like tomorrow yes and you still have three paid for properties right i'd put a ha i put a sign in the yard of both of those two that you have a mortgage on today

oh that that that is good yes that's what i was thinking that's what i thought you all would say well you are thinking properly i'm glad we could give you some confirmation there well you guys have done really well on that side i think you were just doing some things out of order and now once you pay off these student loans you've got three paid for properties you're going to really build some wealth

and my take is that you're going to buy your next properties with cash most definitely that's what we're thinking i love it well you guys have done really well we're cheering for you get rid of these properties get rid of these student loans way to go marcia and you know what's great uh you could hear the husband in the background like they're all in yeah and you know

i really loved about that call when we first you know started talking to her and you asked what was the debt they paid off like 140 000 and credit card debt and you were like what was it and she was like my husband and it was so sweet in that he was completely off the reservation and somewhere in that story we didn't get it they got on

the same page yeah and paid off 140 000 dollars with a credit card debt and now look at them is clear they're doing they're willing to do whatever it takes even though they've made some mistakes they're they're owning up and going we don't want to live this way anymore we're done live in la vida loca oh yeah that's what was great that was the life needs to decide we're done live in la vida loca it's smoking mirrors it's a house of cards yeah

you know what i'm embarrassed to say i don't actually know what that means okay yes very popular ricky martin song back in the late 90s early 2000s i am embarrassed to say i forgot i it felt familiar to me but i was like i can't place it i'm wanting to sing it on air but i think the fcc might shut us down oh we don't want to do that

i want all the license for a lot of reasons what does it mean though uh it means living living the crazy life ah thank you for living the good life you know i didn't right no i didn't know they're laughing at me in the control room i don't mind okay i just taught you some spanish ken i feel pretty good i feel a little bit more valuable who says

you can't teach an old dog new tricks

well you know i would take offense of that but compared to you george i am the old dog and i might as well just own it hey uh folks we're just getting started we're here to help you on your money questions you want to get a bigger shovel you want more out of your life and work george and i here together teaming up to help you somebody needs to call triple eight eight two five five two two five don't move more of your calls and more of the ramsay show coming right up [Music]

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welcome back america you have joined the conversation here on the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell we're taking you through this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five triple eight eight two five five two two five uh boy i'm gonna take a stab at this one i i like to say that i'm hooked on phonics george and i'm looking at

the board i'm gonna go it's uh euclare wisconsin we'll see ken joins us later eau claire oh i blew it ken i'm so sorry how can we help hi my name is ken yeah it's a good name

it is a cool name hey uh i've been an artist my whole life

i've made excellent money i've actually uh paid off my mortgage 20 year 10 years ago wow with with the sales of art but ever since then life kind of took a real deep turn and i've been underemployed and i i it's all i needed to hear was your philosophy and i've agreed with that my whole life that i've been doing things like moving dirt hauling gravel driving truck right now i'm way underemployed and i can't do anything other than pay my bills uh but marketing i i've got a website with my

artwork nothing has ever happened with it i i don't know what to do i don't know how to market my artwork to get people to see it yeah tell me about the artwork what kind of art is it well it's a wildlife landscape realism

okay uh forgive me painting i'm assuming yeah painting okay correct have you ever sold one painting well did i ever i got a huge corporation out of chicago they're the ones that have paid my mortgage uh they helped me add on 20 years ago i've been buy or selling to them and they have given me like over a hundred thousand dollars in my life so you were going through a broker essentially no no just uh i went to the fairs and i

went to the affairs brought me the galleries and then the galleries had customers come in and then i had personal contacts they wanted to meet me personally and so wait a second wait a second wait wait let me make sure i heard you properly 20 plus years ago you made really good money selling the very paintings that right now you're having a hard time selling and george just said well what'd you do and you just list it off you rattled it off so fast i couldn't write it down

sorry no no no

ken you've done this before what am i missing

uh i guess i'll trust that one customer cannot pay my whole life's income

yeah but yes my point is ken have you had success selling paintings that's where i was going i had no idea you had had that kind of success i'm blown away so answer the question have you had success selling paintings before nice job uh yes and you had a

personal contact there you go you know what it is you got to get back out there again i don't know what the actual fear or doubt is but that's the issue the issue is what is the fear what is the doubt and i mean specific voice you're wrestling with right now i want to know because that's what's holding you back yeah that's that's a good question that's one i've been asking all my life yeah

but i'm not going to let you off the hook i'm not going to let you off the hook because i think you know i want you to uh own it i am i'm trying tell me what are you most afraid of what do you doubt the most yeah that's not going to be uh a steady stream okay let's let's now let's dive into that okay let's dive into that maybe

it won't be a steady stream at first maybe it'll take a few years to get it to a steady stream maybe that stream won't be enough to fully take care of your needs but is that really the issue because you can do other work that'll keep you going you're doing it right now

so what are you really afraid of you afraid that it was a a whim that it was a chance that one massive corporation liked your stuff and they paid you well for it no one else on the planet is going to like your stuff and because you've done a crappy job of marketing your art on the web don't judge yourself by that that's not how you got success the first time around feels like to me you gotta dust off the old plan and that was good old-fashioned hustle

shoe leather to pavement ken and you've got a track right here i need i need ideas i guess i just need ideas

okay you know other than being a blogger you know i've been going through this stuff uh it's so much crap on the internet you try to look up this information and here's why you want to be a blogger i know but ken you're still missing it i don't think belonging is the answer i think you getting back out and showing your work again

i think for some reason go ahead are you saying start over like the art fairs again yes yes who's buying art where are they that's where you gotta go you're trying to do it all online i didn't do very good with the art periods because i it was marketing i didn't learn it was like a marketing lesson to me i came that was four thousand dollar items at a at a 200 uh

show you know all right i understand but here's the deal i'm trying to simplify this for you because i am not an expert in the art market but what i am good at doing is simplifying the complex and you are facing right now what feels like a very complex problem i'm simplifying it for you who and you don't have to answer this right now on the air

but this is your homework assignment who is buying four thousand dollar pieces of art who is buying four thousand and higher dollar uh pieces of art that are in your particular style forgive me if that's the wrong way to say it but you get my point where are they george you brought up the broker issue you know who's who's out there helping sell those things this is good old-fashioned research there's a market

for it and ken i think the most important thing is for you to remember that you've made a lot of money selling art before this is not a pipe dream for you this isn't some willy-nilly crazy notion you just gotta get hustling again and be willing to deal with rejection that's what's going on george i'm telling you right now you're gonna hear some no's but you're gonna have to step into those no's to be able to get some yeses

and you're so worried that you got the only yes that you could ever get that it's clouding your judgment yeah there are so many people out there ken and ken who who want to buy really great artwork at that price point so if i'm you i'm going to find every avenue and try it and see what works go to your local coffee shop and say hey can

i hang my painting in here for free i'll let you guys have it in here for free if you'll just put my information underneath it hey i'm gonna go on tick tock and show people the behind the scenes of how i do my artwork and get people excited about it and show them how much work i put into this maybe you start on instagram and try there

because that's a great visual social media place where people are already hanging out and you start using some hashtags there are so many avenues to learn about marketing through youtube linkedin wherever where you can really start to test out where are these people at who really appreciate what i do how about walking into a local art gallery talking to the owner and going hey here's my background 20 years ago

i did this many pieces of art for this company that's impressive that's credible and you go hey can i show you a couple of pieces i got it in the truck and i'm i'm just i want to start putting my stuff back out what kind of deal do you want if you sell it what do you want for it the answer is whatever whatever they say say yes

you got to start showing your work and get it back out there again but i can tell you right now that the fear of rejection and the fear of failure are hanging out on both of ken's shoulders right now yeah and it has clouded his ability to see that he was successful before he could be successful he thought it was well it was my one i did

it back then i'll never do it again it was a stroke of luck yeah you know i've heard dave say this before uh that you know making the second million is easier there's a reason for that you got some history inside of that history are is some skill

inside of that history is some experience and um when we embrace that and go wait

i've done this before i'm not starting from scratch it's not this new thing i know i can do this then all of a sudden

confidence emerges and i think ken the name of your game is confidence you got to get your confidence back up put yourself out there it's worth it because i'm going to tell you right now if you don't do this second time around you're gonna get to the end of your journey and be sick with regret don't regret reminisce go after it put your work out there you got this this is the ramsay show [Music]

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welcome back america you are joining the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell we're taking your calls this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and

we're now gonna go to victorville california where i see on the screen stefan and lisa are on the line george and i'm

told you guys are on the line to do a debt-free scream yes yes oh that's awesome well welcome

thank you so much you bet all right let's get to the story how much debt did you pay off we paid off over 124 000

wow 124 000 okay and uh how long did it

take that took four years of really just hitting it every single paycheck oh yeah that's a lot of money that's unbelievable tell us your range of income during that time we from that time that we started we were about a hundred and fifty thousand and then um ended up at about two hundred and fifty thousand whoa okay we can't go any further i gotta know what led to the hundred thousand dollars in increase

uh my wife had a promotion to be a principal so oh nice very nice by the

way i like what happened there george you know selise was like i'm gonna let you tell him yep way to go lisa how does that feel oh it felt good thank you that's impressive uh all right so

uh tell us what this debt was what made up this 124 thousand dollars that was student loans that i had accrued you know bachelor's degree master's degree my phd i just kind of wrapped it up okay

all right very good and then we had a car loan as well that we were able to pay off all right okay so pretty normal stuff there so take us to four years ago when you guys start this journey what led to this

i think we had done the financial peace

university or early in our marriage and so we knew the the steps and we knew what we needed to do to make it happen

okay and so what was that you kind of knew but was there a moment where he went we've had enough i mean what led to this because this is we're talking about intense 124 thousand dollars over four years i think finally we've seen that uh the student loan was actually due so it made like an impetus that we had to start really attacking it so i made

it our number one goal was to pay as much as possible every month and just attack it you know so you got sick of giving a chunk of money away every month and you went we don't need to do this anymore we make good money we want to live life on our terms and have this money back in our life attacking our goals exactly i love it

so what what did you guys actually do what were the sacrifices you made along the way

the sacrifices were things like cutting back on the big vacations and

uh thinking about refinancing where where we could with our mortgage and getting better rates there so that we would have a better uh monthly mortgage payment and just you know following the the gazelle intensity of paying it down and communicating and knowing that this was our our combined goal to get this out of the way wow so you reallocated a lot of this money that could have gone to a lot of places

and you said nope it's got an assignment it's going to this debt what was uh is there something that sticks out to you all as maybe one of the toughest things you had to deal with it was really really tough maybe maybe it was along the way and you felt like well we're hitting a lull what was a real challenge for you on this journey i think in

the middle it just got kind of hard you know you didn't see that much of an improvement it's you still uh that insurmountable mountain you're climbing but then you just have to keep you know put your head down and just keep moving and trust the process so what was the what do you think the key was the last the last loan for another couple out there who may be where

you guys are at six figures in debt going well we're just going to pay this thing off for 20 years what would you tell that couple the keys to getting out of debt right absolutely what was the key the key was just trying to

do right living like no one else so that we could live like no one else so you had to change your mindset and go we've got to live differently rightly so we can live differently later

so who were your biggest cheerleaders on this journey walking you through this like that middle period stefan that you just mentioned that was so difficult we didn't feel like you were making so much progress who helped keep you in the game

i think we could say our church family that you know started us on fpu so many years ago and then um we were leaders at one point and just

being that example too you know we we can talk it but we had to live it as well walk the talk yeah that's been a theme this year yeah really has definitely so uh george asked you kind of what the key is but as you guys sit here today you're about ready to do this stream how would you encourage um others that are listening because at some point

you all listen to other people do what you're about to do what would you say to them if they feel like they're in this lull or they don't know if they can do it what's your advice to them

just keep keep grinding i mean i mean it looks insurmountable but you know one step at a time and you'll get through it and find that the extra side things that you can contribute to make it a little bit easier like stefan said it's in the middle it's still monotonous and you're looking at the shiny things that you could be spending your money on and you have to just deflect to what

you know would be the right choice yeah wow well let me tell you something you all um you're an inspiration you're heroes you've done something that is very very difficult to do you've shared that story and you stuck together and now you're on the other side of it what does it feel like

such a release such a relief absolutely yeah you've heard dave talk about the grass feeling different is that true what feels different specifically as you guys walk through your everyday life i think not having to worry about extra debt extra payments we have to make you know now it's savings and different other projects we can do and we can save for that yeah that's awesome and uh

i see a picture here uh two kiddos tell us about the kids and and and their ages because we know they're gonna benefit from this unbelievable sacrifice that you've made absolutely we have ryan our son he's now

seven and elizabeth is now four and

they're learning the the system they know that if they don't have the cash we're not going to give them a card wow they should run for congress oh great that'd be great very nice george very nice that's impressive i like that changing a family tree hey uh stephanie lisa we want to gift you with two books uh to uh thank you for sharing your story but also for you all to to keep

moving forward the first is dave's book the legacy journey because that really is the next step for you all on your journey you really are living and giving like no one else the second is we want to give you a copy of dave's wildly popular best-selling book total money makeover and that is a gift for you all to give to somebody else who you can now say hey

this works and we want you to be able to pay that forward in their life as well so we want to give you those uh so yes so we'll

send those out to you all right let's do this stefan and lisa from victorville california they paid off 124 thousand dollars in four years

making 150 000 then up to 250

000 stefan and lisa take it away let's hear your debt free scream two one we're dead free

there it is another couple debt free another student loan bites the dust there it is uh a whole bunch of it too yeah i mean that was a big big chunk of what they paid off that's a chunk of the one point now six trillion dollars sitting out there oh man man oh man and uh you know it's great when you hear the stories but you realize there's kids involved yeah

you know and and these kids are learning to not ever fall into that same trap their mom and dad did but you think about the life that those kids are gonna lead as a result of what their mom and dad did i mean this really is legacy and i love that we give them a copy of the legacy journey because that's what this whole thing is about george yeah they've you've got to teach

these kids this stuff early on and these kids caught it it wasn't just taught they saw mom and dad sacrifice along the way and i doubt they're ever going to touch debt after hearing this story again amazing stuff amazing stuff thank you again stephan and lisa you are heroes thank you for sharing your story countless people will be inspired to do what you did so thank you again very much

he is george campbell i'm ken coleman you're listening to the ramsey show

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welcome back america you are joining the conversation here on the ramsey show uh if you've been paying attention to any news you've probably heard the term the great resignation flying around and uh it's the big name that people are kind of putting on this massive job turnover situation going on uh in this country uh people are saying hey um i

don't like where i am i want to level up i want more out of my work and so

they're leaving looking for something better now you may feel like now is the right time for you as well but if you don't have a clue what you actually want to do then you may not even actually get what you want and move to something that's going to be better for you in the long term you need a plan and you're right work isn't supposed to be a four letter word

you can find work that will leave you feeling energized and fulfilled you can make the income and the impact you want out of the same gig and that's why i wrote my brand new book that reveals to you the clear path to finding and doing work you love from paycheck to purpose we'll walk you through the proven plan that has helped thousands of people find their dream job

and when you pre-order the book today we'll also send you over a hundred dollars in free bonus tools like resume templates guides a video course on how to get hired and beat the competition all of that is going to add value to you

on this journey so get your copy of from paycheck to purpose today at ramseysolutions.com that's ramseysolutions.com the book is from paycheck to purpose triple eight eight two five five five is the number let's go to azure in dallas texas how can we help

hi it's wonderful to talk to you thank you um i i have a small counseling practice up in north texas and i am looking to relocate to east texas in about a year and a half

um and i'm trying to figure out what's the best way to transfer it do i sell it

and free and just restart

move it down there yeah that's that's a very interesting question my question is is have you looked into uh what the details could look like if you were to sell the practice meaning is there any interest who would you approach to see if there is interest where are you on that option

sure so i have two two other therapists that have contracted with me they work underneath me and one of them is a good possibility of possibly wanting to purchase it um and she's she's up and coming and she's dynamite so she would be a good option but i don't know that she would definitely be able to do it in a year and a half yeah yeah well and so when

you talk about counseling practice i mean are you doing much um i don't want to call it telecounseling but i mean are you doing much zoom stuff or is now everything kind of resumed back to in person for you i do a lot of both actually um and

it's been a really good option and having the zoom option has been a really great deal for my clients um i probably care about 20 of my clients online and the other the other 80 or in person yeah i'm gonna

throw another option at you i'm sure you thought of it but i just i'm curious why wouldn't you if you're just simply moving from one part of texas to the other and you already are doing 20 of your counseling online if you will

why wouldn't you keep the practice uh where it is and just open up another office where you are

i have considered that and my concern is that i wouldn't have enough of the client base to to get the revenue that i need to to maintain and to pay for another office space um if that makes sense like in the interim until i build up another another client base in the new location

would it be enough but yes and i have i have thought about you know continuing with some of my current clients online i just know that um the majority of them don't want to do online and they probably would fall off if i you know if i moved okay i totally and i get that sorry yeah but see here's the issue when you're selling a counseling business what are

you really selling you know i'm guessing you don't own your building is that fair that's true i rent office bills yeah so what are you selling in your mind i want you to answer that

so i incorporated i have a pllc

and i have the i have software that is

set up specifically for this practice okay people know this know where it is and they're familiar with the with the name of the practice but it's it's primarily north texas nobody in east texas has ever heard of me right exactly so my point is is if you move to a different part of texas and only 20 of your clients want to continue to do online that means 80 of your clientele has to choose are

they going to keep coming to this practice even though they're not seeing you they're not going to have to choose to see the other two counselors correct that's correct yeah so i guess my point is you've got a challenge in that the person who's interested in buying it isn't going to be able to buy it when you want to move and so i think in this situation

i would probably if you can't get somebody else to buy that software and then uh i mean what else are they buying i just think it's a hard purchase to sell i think it's a hard sell and so

i think i would just wrap it up and uh and i would move on that's what i would do but if you could sell it great sell it but i think that's going to be difficult so i think that you may just end up having to shut it down and then reopen where you move that makes good sense i appreciate the insight yeah yeah you bet thanks for

the call and you know george this is very interesting in this world we live in now you know because of the quality of video conferencing um you know doctors were doing telemedicine that way certainly i think uh counseling is a very intimate setting

um but it is it is possible to do that kind of work now yeah that way if you can do it if you can get clients to do it i like the idea of her not letting go of this quite yet and starting small in her new area and starting to build that up over time and maybe by then there's a buyer or one of her counselors are able to purchase it yeah absolutely let's go to mitchell now in chattanooga tennessee not too far from us here in the nashville area mitchell how can we help

hey thanks for taking my call so um a few months back i used ken's principles and got a new career and that got me out of debt oh i like hearing there we go

yeah so now i can actually start um contributing to the company match 401k since i'm out of babysit three and they have a six percent match so my question is with dave's fifteen percent going into retirement would i do six percent match and then nine percent outside of that or six percent there and then 15 outside of that that's a great

question and in these instances when you've got a company match we look at that as icing on the cake so i still want you investing 15 of your income

into that 401k and if there's a roth option that's even better uh and then take that six percent match as a bonus but no it's not going to be a six and a nine on your part i want you to invest still the full 15 your job could change your life could change the company numbers could change the benefits could change but i want you consistently investing 15 percent okay

and would i do the 15 in the company match on top of the six or would i go through an elp and just do it separately from the company match no they have a 401k correct yes yes yeah so what you want to do there is you'd go up to the match that's six percent then you can open up a roth ira if you don't have one already

and you can work with a smartvestor pro like you mentioned there to get that open and you want to max that out uh the limit is 6000 for most people this year and then you go back to the 401k uh and you can dump money into there and if it's that's if it's not a roth option i assume it's there is no roth option there no it's it's

the target date option as far as i know it's a traditional 401k okay if it's traditional then that's what you do is go to the roth then back to the 401k and finish out your 15

awesome okay thanks you guys thanks so much yeah absolutely congratulations uh what a success story i love it guys got him a new career but by the way that's the bigger shovel yeah that right there if if we can help beat ramsey solutions uh through through the ken coleman show and the resources we've created to get that bigger shovel um let's go because that's an example mitchell got a better gig got promoted

and got out of debt and now he's calling you for investing questions i mean this is what it's about this is the sweet spot when it comes to what we do here ken is when you can intertwine the career side the purpose side with the money side and you realize they actually work hand in hand they do i mean have you ever heard a debt free screen i've not have

you ever heard one where they didn't make at least some more money i mean just some not many times it's substantial where they make more money yeah so making more money is a big part of getting out of debt george and i will take those calls i'll have

i want to thank our producer james hiles our associate producer and call screener kelly daniel and thank you george thanks for hanging with me we want to thank you america for listening because we do it for you this is your show it is the ramsay show [Music]

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting for the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show and it's where america hangs out have a conversation about your life your money your work i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell the phone number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two

five okay so george i gotta get you to weigh in okay on something i saw in the news i don't weigh much but i'll try it

well that's well played sir okay so here's the headline i believe this is wall street journal yeah millennials team up to fulfill the dream of home ownership

burdened by debt and facing soaring home prices first time home buyers are pooling their finances with partners friends or roommates what george this is frightening say it isn't so it is so wall street journal is pretty reputable yeah here's the thing it says the number of co-buyers with different last names increased by 707 percent

between 2014 and 2021. so this isn't

just a 2021 phenomenon this is kind of happening and what's happening is uh millennials are strapped with student loan payments and all kinds of other payments and they can't afford home ownership and they're going to inflation and i live in a high cost of living area and so what do you do ken you call up your buddy and say hey rent is real expensive what if we went in on

this and we became homeowners together okay now let's talk about the nuances there it's not a it's not a spousal situation where you both have the same last name no and as we teach shared assets and all that stuff shared bank accounts these are two completely different individuals so uh two of my favorite fake names to use in these scenarios is bob and larry so let's say sandwich by

the way would do this no millennials on the planet are named bob and larry parents don't name their kids that anymore they don't be robert okay so let's go with let's go with robert and uh randolph perfect and robert and randolph are buddies and they go okay well let's go do this and so they buy a house together what's that look like they're both on the loan yes it's called

the joint tenancy or tenancy in common okay and so it's it happens and it's just two buddies friends they don't have any marital no connection and they just want to own a home and so you can you legally it's possible it's not an illegal thing to do it's totally fine to do but it's a very dangerous move why is it dangerous well um home ownership is a big deal yeah

and when you got your name on the title of that home uh and then you got to go okay who's going to hire the handyman who's going to handle the mortgage payments uh what if one moves away what if one gets married and so what happens is uh there can be a lot of hairy stuff in that relationship that goes down yeah i mean you're stuck i said well robert robert meets a gal

falls i want her to move in you're getting moved out wait wait wait wait wait wait i co-own the house it's just

an and by the way we're at the very top of the onion here we haven't really peeled it there's all kinds of problems here legal mess uh relationship mess i mean it's just a mess but like many things it looks good on paper and you go well financially this is a great move when it comes down to the numbers but when people see this through these rose-colored glasses

and then life happens it gets real messy and i think we're going to see a lot of relationships hurt by this as we try to figure out all the nuances of homeownership with someone that you don't have a real connection with so the moral of the story is please don't fall prey to this supposed good idea

this has just got all kinds of crazy risk attached to it but i mean wow

extreme times it points back to what we're trying to do with this borrowed future documentary help people get rid of their student loans so that they can live the american dream yeah buy your own house yeah i love it home ownership all right let's get to the phones triple eight eight two five five two two five abby is joining us in san francisco california how can we help hey ken hey george all right

thanks for taking my call sure uh yeah so this kind of based on the student loan thing this little like you guys were talking about um so my partner took out loans to go to college and her parents took out 175 000 in parent plus loans so if we get made like combined we'll be making a total of 240 thousand dollars a year so i just wanted to press

this by saying i don't have a problem combining finances paying it fully off when you get married even though it's fair and false i get that um currently her parents are on income-based repayment and they're hoping for loan forgiveness in ten years that their mom is a teacher but like george already talked about everywhere forgiveness chances about like two percent so like what kind of conversation should

i have about boundaries with my partner and their parents like before we get married you are a wise man abby for even having this level of maturity to go i've got to have boundaries i've got to have a hard conversation and so is this a conversation that you and her need to have with her parents or is this how do i have the conversation with her both

i guess i i just i'm just lost as to how to have this conversation because her parents have made it clear that they want to hope for forgiveness in ten years but it's only two percent chance like i don't know what to do yeah well you're not going to be able to convince the in-laws of much that's a difficult thing to do to give them financial advice i've tried that

it did not go well so i'm telling you from experience what you can do is empower your wife and

help her have this conversation with her parents to say hey listen we this was this was loans you took out for me and we want to do an honorable thing and pay these off we don't want you guys to have this on your shoulders and wait a decade as we grow into our adult life and still have these loans hanging around for the hope of forgiveness which we've seen not moving at breakneck speeds even with new legislation

and new presidents i just don't see a day where there were it gets much better than this and so i think you're doing the wise thing by having the conversation but i think you need to have it with her and not go directly to

the the in-laws or future in-laws

so then if they want they're older should they want to retire so i'm sure so won't it come back down onto us later

on anyway like i'm just trying to understand you're saying what do you do once you guys are married what do you do then financially if you want to pay them off no not that like if if our parents want to retire right they can't retire when they have this kind of loan where they'd have to pay income based repayment plans so like how would that affect us

because it'll come back down to on to us what not no i mean it's her parents took this out and so when what happens is when the student applies for a loan and can't get it then it turns into the parent plus loan if the parent is willing to take it on solo so normally a parent can cosign for the loan meaning hey you're both on the hook

and if if abi doesn't pay then it goes to the parent but in this case the parent is fully on the hook so that's the scary part with these parent plus loans is the parents are trying to do the best thing for their kid and set them up but then they can't retire and so what happens is the kids then have to help the parents in retirement

and it really creates a bad bad situation so you guys have a fantastic income and i think it's really honorable that you're wanting to pay these loans off even though they're not in her name and so i think if she has that conversation maybe you sit down with her if they're willing to have it together and you say hey listen here's what we want to do once we're married

we want to tackle her loans and we really appreciate what you guys have done to allow her to go to school but we want to take these on and help get this thing out of our lives and we don't want to wait a decade yeah and again i think that having her be the one that cast this vision because it's her parents yeah and tied it into their retirement

and the way they want to finish out not from the son-in-law yeah stay out of it the parent plus loans huge high interest rate i don't want you waiting 10 years and then nothing happens and run the numbers show them the numbers yeah of how it's going to actually turn out good stuff george thank you for the call avi all right don't move folks more of your calls right around

the corner this is the ramsey show [Music] [Applause]

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ken coleman

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the ramsay show continues thrilled to have you with us i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague none other than george camel and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five i gotta tell you something i've never told you before oh boy i really enjoy saying your last name wow that means a lot yeah camel thank you by the way tell people how it's spelled if they're new to you it's with a k a-m-e-l like the animal and i

will say ken i do have a middle eastern background that's a shock to a lot of people based on my uh complexion

you said that i just came back from cabo after a week oh you did i don't think i'm even one percent tanner did you soak in 75 sunscreen well it was about 100 degrees in full sun i didn't want to come back crispy you know okay i burn easily do you tan no so you have a very

light complexion and that's just your deal and you're going with it that's just my deal fantastic hey uh if you aren't strapped with student loan payments odds are you know someone who has millions are putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're stuck or even worse they're waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness which by

the way is a total joke our team has produced a new documentary called borrowed future and it's out now it uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you you'll see dave ramsey weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program along with featured interviews from industry insiders we're coming at this crisis hard folks

we're taking big swings at the student loan problem with the goal to armed parents and students across the country with the truth which is you do not

have to take out loans to get a college education you can graduate debt-free and avoid the predatory student loan industry borrowed future is available for streaming now go watch on apple tv

amazon prime video google play or go to the website borrowed future dot com that's borrowed future dot com you're excited about this because you you kind of were involved in the precursor yes with the podcast and a lot of the stories started there and you'll hear some of that but i'm just so passionate about this topic as we dug into it uh this was two years ago

and we just did a bonus episode for the podcast and uh surprisingly not much has changed in the student world the student loan world can in two years forgiveness hasn't budged much the legislation hasn't budged much a few of the players in the game like navient they're getting out but it still doesn't give me a ton of hope i still would say stay away don't recommend 100

because i will tell you right now i don't mind saying this i think that whole forgiveness language and conversation is a carrot to get more people to jump in well they're going to forgive it so this is free money and waiting watch the documentary if you said hey you can have it but you need to wait 10 years tell that to an 18 year old 22 year old that's a lifetime yeah

it really is so it's a lifetime for me my goodness oh thank you just not interested no no no triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number let's go to gainesville georgia incidentally george where i started my radio career look at wdun was the radio

station where i started out so i love gainesville georgia ashton joins us there ashton how can we help hey i just wanted to say first and foremost i'm a huge fan i've been listening since i was in high school wow um and i've been following uh for the past five years because i graduated 2016 has uh been doing my dave

ish plan and i have recently just come to realize that dave ish doesn't work and it's all or nothing and um so with that i have a huge question i'm currently in baby step two

and i'm also cash flowing my way through school no student loans or anything but i do have just shy of 20 grand in debt

um with a household income of right

under 40k i want to say it's like 39.5 is what right about what i bring in what kind of debt is the 20 grand so 10 3 of it is a car loan and then the

rest of it is just multiple credit cards kind of spread out between different credit cards

and my big question with that is do i

need to put a hold on school to finish baby step two or do i finish cash flowing my way through in this degree that i started as uh i'm

not even sure if this is the field i want to go in or

not i'm not sure where to go so all right so let's press pause on the on the uh money question and because i think this is going to tie in if you're not entirely sure i want to know what you percentage you would put on it right now is it 50 50 is it 80 20 70 30 as to

how sure you are that this degree you're in right now is not the direction you want to go hit me straight as far as as far as it's a business management degree that i'm working on right now and as far as percentage-wise and

everything like that goes i'm looking at like i'm like 70 30 70 30. not pursuing that direction

the 30 would be in the knot the 70 is in

the end uh as far as pursuing it so he's

leaning towards a yes oh you're okay i i confused myself here you are leaning towards moving into business management type work correct it's really just a

with how broad of an umbrella the degree is and everything like that i'm not sure where specifically and there i want to go i do have about a about 14 months

yeah of management experience that shift leading count hey ashton i gotta tell you right now i would press pause on cash flowing to school and i'd crush the deck because i'm gonna tell you right now uh you don't need a degree to get into business management you already said you got 14 months of experience leading um

you know uh you could go get a job two jobs increase your income which gets you out of debt faster and get in a situation where you're following somebody and there's an opportunity there's a ladder there for you to step up into leadership you don't need a degree to get into leadership so i would press pause there's just too much unknowns right now for you to be taking that valuable cash and cash flowing a super general degree

for sure the only reason that i uh that i have that experience i've been working uh in the food business for a while um and everything and i uh my fiance and i welcomed our son into the world back in 2019 and i jumped up uh you jumped up the chain just a little bit just bring in a little extra money but that jump forward put me in a bind on the

family end and every schedule it felt like it drove a wedge into that and everything and so it was like it was like i was doing my calling but in the wrong area and i don't know quite where that area okay we're gonna lock in we're gonna lock in right here ashton you just led to it you felt like you were doing your calling but in the wrong place

i like to call that you're doing the right thing in the wrong place i'm guessing the hours in the food service industry and all that was just crushing the relationship i get that because you got a little one now so is leading and managing people that's what you love to do that yes okay so so hold on

hold on i want you to focus on something very clearly if you can lead people and manage people and develop people help them win in the food industry can you not do the same thing in other industries yes or no for sure for sure i like that answer george confident all right so george let's now so here's the deal ash i'm gonna turn you over to george i want you to press pause on this degree right now i'm not saying don't go back and finish it but i'm saying you can move up professionally even now

because you've got leadership experience he's got 20 grand to pay off george yeah at this point is your fiance working

she is in about 1400 a month 1400 a month and that's on top of the 40 that you're bringing in a year correct okay well if either of you can get a second job i want to tackle this thing if you're going to pause school then we need to go really hard at this debt if you were going to continue school i'd say all right well continue through school cash flow that

and then tackle this debt as soon as you graduate but if we're pausing school we've gotta get gotta get rid of this debt i mean this is half of your income tied up and credit cards and car loans maybe see how much the car is worth you can drive a beater for a while and get this debt uh payoff cut in half i'm all for that and here's

the deal they're gonna knock out the 20 grand pretty quick school will still be there okay but this is the greatest priority and i think it's going to put some attention on how i can get where i want to get minus the degree and leading people well you don't have to have a degree to lead people come on get after it young man your future is waiting for

you don't move he is george campbell i'm ken coleman you're listening to the ramsay show

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the ramsey show continues i'm kid coleman joined by my colleague george campbell and we're taking your calls this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five how many of you out there want to get a bigger shovel so you can fast forward the process of getting out of debt we can help with that that is a particular area of focus for me george and i will team up on those uh

if you're feeling like hey i'm just not doing work that i enjoy at all we're taking those calls of course that's what i do on the ken coleman show and then george is going to answer your money questions he's ready to go as always and um we love doing this we are

here because we really enjoy coaching you up so let's go triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five and in

the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage i see jason and stacy how are you good how are you you guys are here to do a debt free scream i love it where are you guys from booneville indiana okay very nice all right tell us give us the numbers how much did you pay off we paid off 68 thousand dollars how long

about three years and five months three years five months and what was your range of income 98 000 to about 110. 98 to 110 what do

you guys do i'm a service man for water utility okay great and i'm a third grade public school teacher oh okay very nice but you have to have a lot of energy don't you to keep up with third graders for sure

i love it okay so what kind of debt was the 68 000 we were super normal we had credit cards

student loans truck payment car payment 401k loan medical bills just a little bit of everything i think so george did she leave anything out that was like the potpourri of debt right there very impressive that is awesome i love it so what happened three years ago where you guys said now not doing this anymore we're getting debt free well i had had a really long day at school one day

and i needed to stop at target and get some things for school the next day for a science experiment and i just blindly grabbed some things and i went through the checkout and my debit card was declined and i wasn't even mad of course i didn't think it was my fault i thought there's something wrong with this machine and i just used my credit card and went to my car

and i thought you know i'm going to pull up our accounts just to be sure that everything's fine and all i saw was red like everything was negative he had no clue i had no clue and what really just

got me was that we were in a normal time we hadn't had any extra expenses or anything come up and i just had no clue and i thought we are too far along in our career and we work way too hard for us to have no money where is all of our money going and so i just said we have got to do something different wow so jason what'd

she say to you and how did you respond i don't even remember what it was but you know it was basically we have no money yeah and what are you saying do something yes yeah and then and so at what point uh do you introduce the financial peace university the ramsey solution stuff and what was the was it fpu was it the total

money makeover what what was the uh the starting point well what's funny is i owned the total money makeover but i never read it oh i've read it multiple times since yeah um but a couple of our really good friends had the home study kit for fpu and had offered it to us and so when i got home that night i texted her and i said please bring me

this kit we are ready and i we started the next night okay and i'm i'm reading by the body language here jason that you were all you weren't pushing back you were like oh no yeah if we're gonna do it we're gonna do it that's amazing what's that what's that feel like each of you comment on that when each of the spouse you realize hey we're not fighting against each other on

this we're joining arms here oh that's a great feeling yeah it made all the difference really because i was i was so upset with myself and i feel like he easily could have been upset with me for for having this hole that he really didn't even know about um but he definitely showed a lot of grace and he he kind of owned his part of you know

he kind of never paid attention to our finances and so when i came to him and i said i've been doing this on my own for a really long time but obviously i'm not very good at it and we need to do this together and and he agreed and he said you're right so you would you guys went from problem unaware you didn't even know you were broke to solution focus real quick

you went zero to sixty three years five months ago what made you guys just go all right game on nothing's stopping us um i think when we people look at us and have have told us before you know you don't really seem like the kind of people that are in debt and and we didn't think we were either we're not fancy people i mean at all and

so but when you list out your debt um

one of my favorite podcasters says you gotta know where your fist is gonna land when you're punching it in the face and that's true when you list out all your debt and we totaled 68 000 i mean we were blown away and so we knew we had to get serious wow unbelievable so what did you actually do what were the tactical sacrifices you made to get rid of this debt in three years and five months

basically nothing extra nothing no frills yeah none at all we did so much budgeting and i became really good at meal planning and freezer meal cooking and we we cut out all the fat all the subscriptions the pandemic helped you know nobody did anything we didn't go anywhere we both were very fortunate to have jobs that were very secure you know all through that time and so we just used that time to kind of to kind of keep us rolling forward and um we just

locked arms and put our head down and said we're getting this done what kind of what kind of meals are we talking about did we have a lot of rice and beans or did you get a little bit uh yeah we had a little bit of chicken and pork and there we go with that rice you know i mean that's the key is changing out the protein he's willing to sacrifice

but he's not going vegan yeah right and potatoes yeah yeah that's that's a sturdy man over there he's not gonna go vegan yeah you guys got a raise along the way what happened there with the increase well um as a teacher i don't get many races right you know he does and then i also just side hustled like crazy tutoring summer school i sell avon pet

sitting dog sitting house sitting we just anything we could what was the most lucrative side gig um i think teaching summer school actually there's not a lot of things that teachers can do for their hourly rate but summer school is one of them and so it's a lot of hard work it's intense it's a short amount of time um but it was it was good money for what for

the work so gave up a summer that's that's two summers actually two wow so bless our teachers yeah absolutely well you guys have done it so what would you say is the key to making it through this journey well just helping each other being there and being willing to work together i listen to that question asked a lot because i listen to the podcast all the time um

and i always agree with everything that everyone says and i would add to that consistency you know it's not just about um budgeting or communication for one month or for three months or for six months it's about the consistency for month after month year after year we still create a unique monthly written budget every single month we just have a different relationship with money now and so

it just takes that consistency and if we can do it anyone can do it we were team tiny shovel and we did it so anyone can do it you did it and did you bring someone with you today we what do we have we brought our son wyatt he does not really want to come up on he doesn't have to he'll be 14 next week you just explained everything yeah

i i totally now get it my kids only want to be seen in the same zip code with me much less a stage so i get that well hey real quick before you do your screen we want to give you two things one the copy of dave's uh latest book the legacy journey that's the next stage for use you guys really build legacy um and so we want to give that to

you and also a copy of the total money makeover for you to gift to somebody else so we want to give you that uh as a gift and appreciation for sharing your story all right here we go you guys ready to roll okay we've got jason and stacy from evansville indiana

area they paid off 68 thousand dollars in three years and five months making 98

000 to 110 000 jason and stacy take it away let's hear your debt free screen three three two

one we're debt-free yes you are i like that perfect unison

very good phonetical uh you know kind of strategy there teachers are great communicators i expect nothing less they are you know what i love about this particular story because you know obviously with a lot of couples we go i love that like their story was they both realized at the same time had no clue but both also decided come on let's go yes there wasn't any hanging on any arguing

and it was like no let's go dude it tells me there was a healthy marriage there to start very healthy and even healthier now that is really awesome stuff wow that's why we do we do george i love it never gets old no it does not tell you what else doesn't get old the show the ramsay show don't move we're coming right back [Music]

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welcome back to the ramsay show where we hope you get where you want to go in your money in your work in your relationships we're helping you live the life that you want through practical steps triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number i'm ken coleman and i'm joined this hour by my colleague george campbell we're thrilled that you have joined us blinds.com uh blinds.com that was

i don't know why i struggled to say that george 100 satisfaction guarantee means that even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color which i would mismeasure george that's that type too you you and me no chip gains yeah exactly so this is why blinds.com blinds.com rather is where you want to go they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos

they run every month you'll save even

more make sure you use the promo code ramsay to get the best deal today's question comes from jessa in michigan i am a loan officer at a credit union and i absolutely love my job but i also am

on the dave ramsey plan and have i have fell in love with teaching your concept to our members about getting out of debt i feel like a hypocrite because basically my job involves me creating debt do you have any advice for us who are stuck in corporate america i feel like i am not part of the solution to money issues but have become part of the problem what fields can

i pursue so i can become a solution well it sounds to me like jessa really enjoys the financial industry yeah and so she's she's obviously because she believes in in what we teach at ramsey solution there is a conflict there now first we start with jessa you aren't part of the problem you aren't a bad person you are not doing anything that's unethical or illegal however i understand that

the values disconnect so if you love finances the planning the strategy the numbers and all that kind of stuff and you want to help people win financially that doesn't involve debt i'm looking at uh

one of our smart vester pros you know you know our system i really want you to reach out to somebody uh in our in your area that's a smart investor pro and go hey ken coleman i was the ramsay show they read my thing and told me to call you guys i think about moving into your side of things because i want to help people win with money not get weighed down with money and i think coffee lunch

a phone call to learn a little bit more about the investment side of things financial planning certainly financial coaching is an option working for an organization that

has good products and services that

better people's lives and maybe you work in the finance side of that company what i'm trying to say here is there's a whole lot of opportunities for you you don't have to feel as though you are painted in the credit union corner you can do a lot of what you like to do in a lot of different places and she's saying she's a loan officer and she loves her job

and if you do that i mean we have our friends at churchill mortgage they're helping people get mortgages the right way that's right so i think it's a great opportunity if you work for you maybe you are a mortgage loan officer you help people understand the right way to get into a house that isn't going to bury them and so you go hey i want you to do

this there's a great way to do this here's the kind of down payment here's what kind of mortgage loan i would steer you to and here's why to where she can actually help people that's right do it the ramsey way and do it uh financially that's a very good point george she may be able to stay in the credit union if it's a perspective change don't push somebody to a bad product

but if you're getting pressure to push to a bad product then she's making car loans all day i get it yeah but if you want if you love the loan industry i think mortgages might be something that she could get into where she could really help people yeah and really guide people to do it the right way really good stuff there all right let's get back to

the phones triple eight eight two five five two two five robert joins us in albuquerque new mexico robert how can we help

how are you doing all well we're having a blast what's going on

every day is a good day um i just had a question i have uh you know where i work now i make good money and me and my wife are you know pretty much get well not pretty much we're debt-free except for our mortgage okay and uh the problem is is the company i'm working for basically you know got rid of all the people that started the company

and then now the new owner is wanting me because i'm outside self wanting me to do like things that i don't agree with that to me you know down gouge our customers and i don't agree with it okay so they got rid of everyone else and those people are starting a new company and they want me to go there well i'm leaving a six figure job to go

there and then start over but i don't know if you know my wife thinks it's a you know she doesn't know if it's a good idea or not but morally i can't i just i can't do it right well i'm not

into that that's not because i'm in construction just to kind of give you a little yeah well you're a good man robert you're a good man and um you've got a decision before you one way or the other so you and your wife got to sit down and go okay one way or the other i can't keep doing this i think the million-dollar question for you robert is how much longer can

you do it are you at a point where you feel like each day that you stay here and you're asked to do something you don't agree with it's like could you last 30 days doing this i don't think the answer is yes but i want to know what you how long can you last until you find something else to step into if we don't take this startup opportunity

i want to leave it today can you do that financially i have a lot of regular

customers that you know i'm charging them double what i did before right and it's just not right okay so they're just making more money right so but financially you can't walk today did i hear you say that yeah i mean now i mean my wife makes good money too so i think you could you don't have any debt you don't have any debt we have six months of our reserve yeah well

i don't want you i don't want you to necessarily use that my question is can you live off of your wife's salary for 30 days 60 days

probably not okay so here's the deal you're going to have to you got to be a big boy you got to be grown up here and so i think it comes down to doing your homework and finding out what would you make is it straight commission if you go with the startup all these people you used to work with yes okay so you one way or the other it's like you can't be without pay for 30 day uh well for 60.

you know you don't think you can get back to six figures in no time

i think so well you got to show her that robert this this is a safety issue your wife doesn't feel safe you've got to show her how i know but listen but the good that's good news and bad news bad news is your wife doesn't feel safe the good news is all you have to address is their safety so you got to sit down with her with a good old-fashioned piece of paper

and pencil and go with the 10 to 15 going with me over here this is where i'm realistically going to be in the first three to six months it's going to pinch us maybe a little bit but we're in no way we're no way near any kind of danger

and you show her how long it's gonna take to get where it's going and you have a conversation where she goes oh okay i feel safe and reminder we've got six months in our emergency fund yeah we have no consumer debt you're positioned we can do this you absolutely can do this uh yeah i would do that tomorrow like i'd do it today end of business if

i talk to my wife first i want the wife to feel safe sorry smart man i did get a little excited about like getting married ken 23 years which is why men did what i said there talk to the wife then submit the resignation that's the order of that hey uh good stuff george thanks man always fun i want to thank our producer james childs and our associate producer

and call screener kelly daniel and we want to thank you america this is your show it is the ramsay show [Music]

hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show it's where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life your money your work your relationships

it's all on the table we want to help you and the way we do it is just good old-fashioned conversation coaching you up giving you some practical steps to take that you can do because it is up to you and i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague fellow ramsey personality george campbell with a k by the way k-a-m-e-o

thank you for that ken can i just say i always appreciate when you call me a colleague it just feels i feel very my back straightens up yeah i've better posture you know why that is why is that because you're a millennial i'm an i think colleague is a term that you are only vaguely familiar with so when i say it it has a little extra punch to

it although it just means co-worker it feels old-timey in a good way it is i'm a little bit of an old soul kelly's looking at me like she's irritated should i should i retire colleague

no boy oh she's oh you're irritated at george thank you very much okay because i feel like colleagues two exercises this is too classic guys yes yes and kelly and i are almost like exactly the same age i would have thought kelly was much younger way way younger nice move george

well played i'm mostly just scared of kelly so just trying to earn the brownie points where i can as you should all right let's get to the phones hazard kentucky oh that's cool

josh is on the line and has well i love saying this and hazard josh is there josh how can we help yes i'm actually currently in baby step two uh me and my wife we make around eighty thousand dollars a year right before i started the baby steps we bought a uh property which was adjoining a uh development area which was eventual tourism and myers where really it's a rural area uh long story short it took

off very well this and the county government has actually got a grant for their side of the adventure terrorism for like 1.5 million and they're making a lodge and right now like i said i'm on baby step two we're working the plan uh we're just kind of my first cabin i built i ended up doing some rentals there uh kind of want to see where i need to go

if it should be right to build another cabin now or wait till we get finished the bank has actually i spoke with them they're open with doing another one but i understand you know it's hard to get out of a uh hole with a very small shovel at the same time if you're digging deeper so so you are taking out loans to build these cabins yes it was

before we started any type of baby steps or anything and you're saying hey should i go build another cabin if it's going to mean taking out another loan yes that's the only thing i don't really want to go through with that but at the same time like i've turned away like 30 people the last month for bookings on my cabin so you're seeing the dollar signs going man

i got to get another cabin asap i can make some money yeah how much debt do you have uh minus my mortgage and the vacation rental i've got about forty thousand forty consumer event yeah it's a couple cars and then a personal loan and one credit card okay and what uh do you have any business debt uh yes for the land the property we bought in the cabin

it was uh we owed about 50 58 000 i think on that

how much about 80. how much are you clearing josh on this one cabin rental that's just hot hot hot um i'm clearing uh a route thousand

dollars a month on it so

yeah yeah but i mean you haven't gotten into any repairs that thousand dollars a month that's not a whole lot when you think about upkeep and stuff like that that's 12 grand a year so it's not a it's not a money making scheme yeah so the answer is no you're not going to go into debt for another one you're not even making enough money to get that excited

i mean i understand it's kind of nice to see it all booking up and stuff like that but the reality is you're clearing right now and when i ask you clearly i mean are you working in expenses to that like upkeep and repairs yeah okay but even at that 12 grand a year i mean

and you've got almost a hundred thousand dollars in debt from your consumer debt plus the business debt and this is outside of the rental correct in your home yeah that yes okay well that just my just the consumer debt which i'm not adding in you know the whole business yeah about 40 000.

all right and that's kind of why i felt too but it felt good to hear from somebody else yeah thanks for the call josh and here's the deal you can knock this out and once you knock this personal debt out knock that cabin out now all of a sudden uh you've got some real uh wealth building opportunity here

and and and then then expand that business because clearly it's working and so that's a positive asset in the sense that okay we've got something to build off of but don't don't take the temptation to take on more debt yeah yeah that's a good move but he's got he's got some good things going on but again when i hear credit cards and the cars and personal loans

it feels like things are out of whack right now we've got to clean up the mess before we can focus on growing the business uh george i was going to ask you this um are you sensing because i know you look into consumer stuff as well are you sensing any trend here on are we going to see used car cost kind of slow down feels like they're pretty high a premium right now is that going to change anytime soon am

i reading anything my prediction is in 2022 we're going to see things level out a little bit we're not going to see this craziness where used cars are going for you know 30 more than they would have 18 months ago as the supply chain starts to fix itself when we see more new cars in the market the used cars will get a little less attractive and so right now

if you've got car debt now is the time to look into some of these sites like vroom and carvana carmax dealerships even facebook marketplace i've been hearing crazy stories of people listing their car on facebook marketplace and dealers from different states are contacting them and they're legit and they're saying we'll give you way over uh your offer oh so you're saying to go to a car dealer which is traditionally an awful idea

because they give you way less yeah kelly and listing on facebook marketplace and the dealer reaches out to you so you're getting kelly blue book value from car dealers oh yeah even more oh they're desperate out there this this is why crazy this is why i'm just a consumer's friend right i'm a nerd good stuff hey don't move more of your calls coming up he's george campbell i'm ken coleman

and this is the ramsey show

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welcome back america you are joining the conversation here on the ramsay show i'm ken coleman joined by george campbell as we take your questions this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five the number to jump in is triple eight eight two five five two two five now of course we take your calls but we also get you know a show this large tremendous amount of social media questions um

and i should mention if you want to follow george and i on the gram as the kids call it instagram do cats call i don't think kids call it that but i'll give it to you i did that i knew i was gonna anytime you say as the kids call it just know it's not what they well i you know i slipped into dad mode there george

because i have three teenagers and i do that and recently the team got me on tick-tock that's right and i don't do anything over there so this is not like go follow me over there because i the team does it and you know we're kind of you know dabbling into some content there you're not doing dance challenges don't be excited we had a post that went kind of nuts

and i came home that day and i told my kids hey uh so dad's pretty big on the talk and dude they were so irritated with just like you are right now yeah that i called it the talk but it's not the gram either no it's instagram yeah at george campbell at george campbell with a k and that ken coleman yeah yeah also with a k

coleman with a c thank you jerry she just confused everybody yeah we got a lot ramsay has a lot i don't have many fans but the ramsey brand we get a lot of social media questions we love them and you've got a very interesting one right now yes we've got a great question from joel on facebook and here's what joel asked i got hit in the t-mobile data breach earlier

this year and i keep getting weird voicemails and texts from random companies should i be worried about id theft that's a great question ken if you didn't hear about this back in august t-mobile had a data breach that affected almost 50 million customers i think i remember i think i remember seeing a headline yeah so this is scary stuff a lot of data breaches out there at some point your life you're going to be a part of a data breach

i mean a lot of major companies very scary really yeah but here's the thing let me explain to you and this will answer joel's question a data breach is different from identity theft so data breach just means that your information was exposed so there was a security breach and your personal confidential information is out there someone may have access to maybe your birthday your email address maybe your social security number your street address things like that

but it doesn't turn into identity theft until someone actually uses that private information for their financial gain and i experienced identity theft did you i had uh someone opened up an att account a verizon account under my name using my nashville address but they did it in boston with my social security number and wrapped up seventeen hundred dollars on what was this this was uh back in 2014 was

it uh did they at least uh re

um when they stole your identity were they like a six foot five i was hoping i don't know if they ever found the person but here's the thing uh it was very scary because you go this person has my very personal information they used it against me to create this debt in my name that's crazy obviously i didn't have to pay it but they racked up 1700 on both accounts uh and the good news is i was working at ramsey at the time i had id theft protection through xander dave gets that for all the employees but here's some things that joel can do because i think it's a it's a legitimate worry to have i don't want you to get paranoid about identity theft you can sleep sleep easy at night but here's some things that you can do number one is check your credit report what's really interesting right now is the bureaus are offering free weekly reports through april 20th 2022.

normally you can access them once a year for free right now they're doing it weekly uh through 2022 april 20th uh 2022 thanks to kovitz so that's one thing you can do check for any suspicious activity there another thing you can do and i did this after identity theft is freeze your credit so call up uh contact the three credit bureaus and make sure you freeze your credit that's equifax experian transunion what that means is no one's going to be able to open up an account

because it's frozen you might have to lift it temporarily right temporarily if you're you know applying for an apartment and there's a hard inquiry if you need to do a check like that another thing you can do beef up your password game right most of us we don't we can't remember our passwords we use the same one on everything oops and that's a dangerous move is it

because if they get your your password for your t-mobile account that might be the same one for your email and now they access a whole web of things and so make sure you're using strong passwords uh use a password manager james child's a producer loves a good password manager that's another thing you can do he does he strikes me as a privacy nerd yeah another thing have

you heard of this two-factor authentication um is that the deal where

this is gonna have to get a cell phone number well yeah so you can do different things see smarty pants i actually knew a little a little bit you've got a password but you also have to verify it through maybe a text message opening up a smartphone app or a physical security key so those are all great things but the number one thing i tell you to do to sleep easy is just get identity theft protection it's super cheap for an individual it's

you know it's the cost of a latte and for a family it's the cost of a pizza per month to stay protected and what this does this i didn't i didn't know this xander does all the work for me they do and so they're they're 24 7 365 support

and they will cover up to a million dollars for stolen funds and expenses and there's proactive monitor monitoring and alerts so i love this i sleep easy at night now i haven't had identity theft since and i do these other things you know i freeze my credit i make sure my passwords are strong and i use two-factor authentication so that in case of a breach it doesn't create identity theft yeah

i got to tell you george i feel much better because when you started off on this whole deal about data breach i thought somebody was going to break into the studio cut some guys in some black suits and you know the aviator glasses it sounds very very scary but i do recall that each month you know i'm not a fan of email but i do get an email from xander

and i click on it it tells me and they'll let you know hey your email was compromised um go change your password here and i go oh thank you zan i would have had no idea yeah so it there's it's a great feature and there's a lot of things you can do to protect yourself don't freak out joel but make sure that you're doing these things good stuff good question

thanks george good stuff there megan is up now in green bay wisconsin megan how can we help hi i am so honored to talk to you guys

well thank you what's going on all right so my husband has been employed for 20 years with a spin company longer than we've been married actually um and his employer is implementing a surcharge on insurance costs for those who are not receiving the covered chat um which we definitely do not want and so we're trying to figure out we

don't know how much the surcharge is going to be and we're just looking for some guidance as to where to go from here if we should just kind of wave the boat or if he should maybe just start looking a little bit to see what else is out there in case it gets you know let me ask you this if this wasn't coming down the pike would he be thinking about moving on

no he really likes what he does yeah

um i this is i'm gonna try to not get involved in this emotionally and and help you walk through this um because on one hand you guys don't want to get it you don't want to get the shot and uh on the other hand you don't want to you know get hit really hard and take on an expense like this and he wasn't looking wasn't thinking about looking prior to this so this really puts you in a tough situation but i think this comes down to to your priorities

and uh you know i think at the end of the day they need to tell you what the what the cost is going to be and then you weigh the cost literally weigh the cost okay in order to stay in this job that he really enjoys there's going to be an added monthly expense now that i'm getting hit with

how long is that going to last we don't know the answer to that you know is it going to be uh forever you know who knows i think you have to weigh that um while you're weighing that and waiting for that information i would be looking though i'll tell you that yeah there's two pieces of this there's the ethical component of do i want to work for a place that has

these values and if overall he agrees with them ethically and he goes all right this is something i got to deal with and uh it basically you know turns into a 200 pay cut right if it's 10 15 bucks a month now if it's i can't imagine it's anything large i'm not gonna charge you a hundred dollars i would hope not but then you weigh it and go all right am

i willing to take this little pay cut uh to stay at a job that i truly love and this is just an annoyance that i'm gonna deal with as part of it but if you're like hey i can't agree with them ethically anymore i've gotta leave that's your decision that you have to make yeah yeah i i think this is tough um

and i gotta tell you now that i think about it george you know i i wouldn't be surprised if it's not a hefty bump because i'm going to tell you what this amounts to this is a penalty and companies are saying we think everybody should be vaccinated and we're telling you that you need to uh because i think delta airlines came out they were the first i think major company for

this kind of thing was like hey we're going to hit you with a with a premium uh on your healthcare because of all the uh the implications they're saying yeah but i think it comes down to a penalty and i don't know it may not be it may not be insignificant it may be a significant number and in that case unfortunately turns into a budget line item your values

and your money are driving this decision and if you got to move on you got to move on hey don't move on because we've got more of your calls coming up this is the ramsay show

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welcome back america you are joining the ramsey show i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell and we're here for you this hour it is a free phone call triple eight eight two five five two two five and george this is uh it's our favorite part of the show looking out there in the ramsey solutions lobby on the debt free stage i see brandon and makayla

welcome thank you hello yeah where are you guys from we're from paducah paducah kentucky all right and uh if you're on that stage that means you're here for a debt free screening yes sir fantastic how much debt did you pay off we paid off 25 500 and then we also had a baby in the middle of that whoa congratulations thank you how old is the baby she's six months old six months are you sleeping actually yes she sleeps really well she sleeps that really she sleeps that's fantastic okay so twenty five thousand five hundred dollars how long did it take ten months ten months and what was the range of income it started at a hundred thousand and then it's up to 115.

a cpa office oh nice okay fantastic so

great income here um and uh what kind of debt was the 25 500

um everything it was a car loan student

loans credit card we financed some flooring some carpet everything really

okay all right are you happy with the flooring choice i love it i love it

it's paid for now that's right it's paid for so i hope you're happy probably feels a little bit better to walk on wonderful yeah i thought that might be the case okay uh so ten months ago

uh did you know about ramsey solutions financial peace the total money makeover what what led you to start this journey

you can take it okay uh so i had actually known about dave ramsey for a while um i had i had done fpu probably two or three times okay and i knew how it worked i just never did it never really i guess was motivated to do it and i guess it was towards the end of december of last year we were like okay we're really going to do

this so we downloaded every dollar app and we started doing it for real and then we got pregnant yeah yeah how did that how did that what because you'd already started it then you find out you're pregnant well did that intensify it we found out we're pregnant in what august oh we started in january oh i'm with you i got you do you think that may have been

the domino that i think yeah i think it was definitely a big factor yeah just to be prepared for when she was here yeah sure so what were the things you guys did because that's a pretty big chunk even of your income in 10 months to pay off were there some sacrifices did you sell anything get extra jobs uh well i mean we sacrificed eating out which

we love to do yeah come on no um we did sell an older vehicle that we had for what was it five thousand but everything else was just hard at it just get after us what was what was uh what was maybe one

of the most difficult things to kind of say no to or maybe one of the most difficult things to do in the middle of this journey you want to answer that nope you can oh geez you guys are so polite i feel like you guys need paddles not really so you guys can determine who's going next i like that yeah um i would say the hardest thing was probably

you know we had friends that hey you want to go do this you want to go do that we're going to go here it's like oh man we can't do that yeah wow i get that so did you have cheerleaders were they cheering you on or do they think you were weirdos for doing this thing crazy yeah weirdos uh actually our biggest cheerleader was my younger brother which

we kind of got into this and we gave him our older what was it

financial peace total money makeover i'm sorry okay and he was kind of hesitant at first and he got really into it and he was cheering for us the whole time so now he's doing it so that's incredible i love that what do you what would you tell people is the key to winning this

waking up every day and making the decision of i'm going to choose to be debt-free i'm going to choose to not live like i did before yeah and consistency consistency consistency and communication that's a theme right here consistency and communication i love that wake up every day and choose to be debt free it's a daily decision you can't just decide once and then keep living your life

the way you were living you've got to make some changes change some habits make some sacrifices like you guys did absolutely incredible so how does it feel now wonderful amazing absolutely wonderful yeah you could see it so how has it changed you're a young couple how has it changed your outlook on the future now on the other side of this you're now debt free what's it done for your vision for

the things you're dreaming about i mean you know it's it's kind of nice to wake up in the morning and not like you know on fridays when we get paid it's like okay we get to keep this you know it's not like it's going everywhere else and now we've got a little girl that you know she gets to grow up and we get to race her in

the way that we've now been taught and it's just endless opportunities really and now you can eat out again what's your what's the spot yeah that's what i wanted free where did you go what was the meal we haven't have it yet yeah we're planning on doing that this weekend oh this weekend okay so really seriously you've not been out to eat in in 10 months not nope not really are

you guys going to stay over are you going back to paducah we're here for the weekend so as much as we can george i feel like during the break you should go give them some suggestions you're mister you're mr uh millennial no this is my nashville

eateries george please do they haven't been inside a restaurant for 10 years 10 months ken i gotta tell like ten years like george is so fired up he's gonna give you so many great suggestions i'm gonna leave now please do and we gotta get to the screen first that's the best part well absolutely so uh wow wow wow what a great story well hey couple things before

we get to the screen uh we want to give you a copy of dave ramsey's the legacy journey because this really is now the next step for you guys truly building a legacy not with just that beautiful little princess but in everything you do who you give to and how you spend that money uh so we want to give that to you and then i love that

you gave a total money makeover to your brother because we're going to give you a brand new copy uh to give to somebody else and so that is our gift and we want to give that to you so that is just really good stuff you guys are a great couple thank you you guys are heroes and uh this is why we do what we do we're ready to celebrate

you guys ready to go ready ready to go okay here we go brandon and mikayla from paducah kentucky they paid off five thousand five hundred dollars in ten months make it a hundred thousand up to a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars brandon mckayla take it away do

your debt free scream three two one

we're debt-free

there it is that's how it's done huh how about that couple look at that i've her face is changing just giant smile plaster on the face yeah incredible yeah i mean they've done their debt free stream i'm not sure what is leading to the big smiles the most is it their debt free uh because they've been debt free for obviously a little bit to get here or is

it the excitement about the restaurant suggestions you're gonna get it's the upcoming meal ken nashville's got a lot of great food they're in the right place and they're in the right hands but you know we're having fun with that but that seems like a little sacrifice

but it's not dangling that little carrot is really powerful to go hey what do we want to do once we're debt-free what kind of things we want to do again or for the first time and it's one of those things where you go we don't have to think about it it's in the budget we're going to pay cash for it we're going to have a great time yeah

but instead of wondering yeah do we have the money am i going to put this on the credit card yeah but speak to this george you coach people on this i mean you start racking up things like i'm not going to go out to eat we're going to you know do this this this all those things together add up to where you can pay off 25 grand in 10 months which is that's a lot of money in 10 months what happens is

you go we're going to make a temporary sacrifice for a long-term gain when you have that kind of mindset it changes everything most people go i'm just going to keep living this way for the next 20 years and i'll worry about it down the road they keep kicking the can down the road and one day they realize hopefully

they're broke and they're miserable they're living with anxiety and they can't reach their dreams and buy homes and go on vacations and it's all because of that and so i love meeting couples like this who decide and not only decide but wake up every day deciding that it doesn't have to be this way and we're going to dangle this carrot this goal in front of us of debt freedom

and all the things that comes with that so that we can power through and pay this off i love it all right george um i want to know you go 10 months without eating out

where do you go what kind of meal just tell me the meal i think it's got to be a high quality meat i'm probably going rib eye okay that's just me yeah uh i asked you maybe a big old pork chop okay what's your side uh i'm gonna go with

mashed potatoes really maybe some asparagus i'm a little shocked that you

chose mashed potatoes it's creamy it's buttery it's filling oh i love it i gotta tell you if i go 10 months without a meal i'm going to have to work in some amazing seafood george maybe a surf and turf you know a little bit of maybe a fillet and a giant lobster this is helping my decisions for this guy there it is folks this is what you come here for hey don't move it's not done yet more of your calls more breakthrough coming up this is the ramsay show

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the ramsey show continues i'm ken coleman joined by my colleague george campbell so thrilled that you've joined us today triple eight eight two five five two two five as we talk about your life our scripture of the day is matthew 7 13-14 enter through the narrow gate for wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it but small is

the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it today's quote comes from john maxwell the secret of your success is determined by your daily

agenda good stuff there amarillo texas is where we go now and chancellor joins us on the line there chancellor how can we help hey yes sir thanks guys for taking my phone call you bet hey hey uh so kind of crazy here i uh i'm in a point at a point now to where we are my wife and i were completely out of debt and uh we've been doing the we did the

baby steps and we got gazelle intense and it seems as if the gazelle intensity has

kind of taken over our lives we don't really know where to go from here and it's not a bad situation by any means you know we have a nice savings account 15 going into our retirement and uh we got our kids college funds on the way we're building them however we still have an influx of money and we don't know what to do now so you've got leftover cash after four and five and you're wondering what do we do with it yes sir how much money are we talking

uh right now we have about fifty six thousand dollars in cash that's on top of your emergency fund

yes well that's no no i'm sorry 41 000 we have 56 000 total okay 41 000 is your emergency fund

15 000. oh okay okay so we got 15 in the

emergency fund what's outside of the emergency fund in cash 41 000 okay there we go all right now we're cooking with gas so you've got baby step six paying off the house early and you're saying hey we've been going real hard is it okay for us to slow down and enjoy our lives uh yeah i guess so um i guess

my fear is you know with college prices being college tuition being so expensive

i just don't know how much what's the cap where to stop where to start i mean really just right yeah i mean my kids are my biggest how old are these kids at this point well i have a nine-year-old stepson and i have a one-year-old daughter okay we've got 17 years till college and we've got another nine years till college you've got plenty of time you guys have done really well i'm not super worried about them being able to afford going to college debt-free with

the way you guys have handled your finances is that what you're worried about will be will we be able to afford it um yeah i am worried about that i am um

but more or less you know i i would like uh i like my kids you know i'm i'm 27 years old i i my wife's 29 but i i fear every day that

i just don't want my kids

needing anything ever yeah if that makes sense well i mean you're a great dad for wanting that but i don't want you living in this fear ever you said i'm living in fear every day uh that borders on paranoia at that point and so i want you guys to you guys have done so well you've worked so hard you have 41 thousand dollars sitting there in liquid cash

so have some fun have you guys been on a vacation well we do we do enjoy our vacation chancellor chancellor can i speak to you as a dad uh of three i totally understand your heart that you don't want your kids to want for anything but the way that sounds is if you have the pressure that you've put on yourself to fund their entire life the way

you said it sounded way more than college and george has already made it clear you're going to be fine on college fund and you just keep doing what we teach there and they're gonna be fine they're gonna have plenty but this idea that i don't want my kids to want for anything i completely understand that believe me i understand you but your job is not to fund their life they're gonna

they have a role that they were created to fill there's work they want to do there's dreams that they have it's that's on them to do that it's not on you to fund their entire life

okay okay you needed to hear that didn't you

yes sir yeah man yes sir you're a good dude you're a good dude look the baby steps are the baby steps you're doing it man keep walking it out relax outside of that your kids are going to make their own decisions you your job is not to now look if you want to do a mutual fund and something for them down the road and give them a great start whatever and put some nice strings on all that that's all good but again i feel this heavy weight on you it needs to be released today

okay so i guess that leads me into my next question um what could i start doing you know like i

i have a really good job i can't complain about my job however i don't absolutely love my job but you know i i have this dream of

you know working for myself or tell me what that would be i don't care how pretty it sounds and how great of a business plan you have tell me what right now in this very moment you would do for yourself if you knew you couldn't fail what kind of business what would you do and honestly i think i would do landscaping i truly love landscaping i've done

it i did it okay now listen chancellor you're in a position man where you can start to plan this out and start this thing on the side with no risk how much money do you make in your current job

well it's a little bit it fluctuates quite a bit but i'd say between 130 and 150. all right so let's just let's just pick 150 as a number you would want to replace and if i promised you that you could make 150 today running your landscaping business how quickly would you resign

right now that's it my man so here's the deal what is it going to take for you to eventually start that business

and take care of your family in that business there's a couple ways you could do this you could keep busting it the way you're busting it you got some money right here george he's got some money that can begin to be the seed for starting that landscaping business and maybe you do it on the side you hire a couple young guys and you're the face of it

and you build this thing up you build it up and you get enough money in that landscaping business account that you've got six months of your salary there and you know if i just go at this full time i get the pipeline full i can go this becomes a math equation that's right i start today start pursuing today by planning and thinking through how would i do

it what's the best way to do it save it all up and step into it or start it on the side and establish it i really like starting it on the side and establishing it by the way and chancellor you can do that now can you not yes sir i actually you know i have about 10 yards a week i do right now oh look at that

i had a sneaky suspicion george that he was already happy my yard's next man that's i'm so glad people have a passion for landscaping ken because i have zero yeah so listen man you have done so well you're 27 years old you make a hundred fifty thousand dollars you're in baby step six you have a pile of cash you need to let go of this fear and start getting excited about your life again your kids are gonna be fine

you need to start dreaming and uh really going after this thing like ken's talking about yeah and you've got it chancellor those 10 yards every nickel that you make or rather keep after you pay for the you know the lawn care equipment and all the things in gas right

that's just going in that side account and i'm building that side account up and i'm building it and i'm building it and i'm building it and i'm trying to figure out can i put six months of my salary what i currently make in that account and i'm building up the clients and i'm going i know that i can blow this thing wide open and there's no risk here george

you know we talk about stepping from the boat right on the dock that's what this side hustle is and then he's going to be in such great financial shape that he doesn't have the pressure that a lot of entrepreneurs face it's amazing how many times people get their financial life in order and then they can focus on purpose and career it's incredible yeah if only we had somebody hit ramsey solutions that could help them figure out that dream cough oh wait a second wait

we can do that fun stuff hey i want to thank you george we had a great time today we did fun stuff man great great job always great to be with you i want to thank our amazing producer james childs and equally amazing associate producer and coal greener kelly daniel i mostly want to thank you america for listening because we do this for you this is your show

this is the ramsay show

[Music] hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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## 211. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 20, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am rachel cruz best-selling author ramsey personality and host of the rachel cruz show hosting today alongside

i like to always say real life friends that's my official title when we're all together uh christy wright best-selling author host of the christy wright show uh chrissy it's good to be back with you yeah this is so fun it's uh it was a big week last week for business boutique and now back in the back in the weekend i know how did it go you guys had an event here in nashville yep

and live stream thousands of women and uh it's just amazing how every year we change up the speakers change up the content and every year it raises the bar it's so fun and so exhausting and awesome how was bianca and jasmine because i know them personally and they are they're amazing they're so fun do you know that that was the first time they've ever spoken together because they're twins they're 20 that do not know them

but yeah bianca oltof is a bible teacher and pastor jasmine starr is a social media expert both of them are very branded in their individual spaces they are identical twins and even

though they are identical twins most people don't know that they're twins because they're so branded in their space and they have different laughs last names so in all the promotion for this event we did not share that they were twins and so thursday night bianca spoke and just brought a great word she was so powerful and then friday morning jasmine starr spoke and then we did this fun reveal

and did a panel with both of them talking about how you find your unique calling when you are constantly compared to someone else great yes it's really that's so great all right so we are taking your calls live at triple eight eight two five five two two five so give us a call we're talking money we're talking business we're talking life we're talking balance we're talking parenting anything

you want to chat about america uh christy and i are here because they

they give this to us which is just absolutely crazy just keep letting us host together absolutely crazy okay um before we dive into the calls i do want to ask because last time we were on together we were talking about your planner yep and different fun things launching how has that been yeah it's so great so the planner is awesome i actually had someone um asking about

it last week for for people that don't know our 2022 goal planner is out and this is the fourth year that i've done this planner but what makes this planner different than other calendars which are great is um it's filled with content and worksheets and journal questions for reflection and a month in review so there's a lot of personal growth tools and content woven into the calendar

and oh by the way that informs your calendar your to-do list so um it's one of those things that we try to pull together all the best pieces of things we teach we teach you to read books to grow as a person we teach you to you know do bible studies to grow in your faith to journal to write your goals on paper this is all of that

it is your yeah it's your goal tools it's all that together so um yeah it's been fun and people get so excited because it's really beautiful i mean it's a piece of it it is it is oh it's gorgeous it's absolutely gorgeous yeah so i feel like that's one of the fun things that we get to do is create these tools around what i think individually we're passionate about

but to help people because it's like yeah we can talk all day on shows like this or our own podcasts but to be able to live in day in and day out as you're living life whether you have a planner next to you helping you with kids schedules and your schedule and appointments and all of it um which just remind me by the way i have a planner on my phone like

i do it digitally anyways i didn't take off an appointment so i took two of my kids to the dentist today and we didn't have a dentist appointment i had like not taken off so i actually probably need your planner honestly uh not digital because my digital planners are not working um but yeah but one of the things i'm so excited about the rachel cruz wallets has been out for a few years now

we have uh just different different colors different variations of it but uh it it's all based around the cash envelope system because that is something that we talk about here those of you that are new to the show and our money principles one of the biggest ways to stay within your budget and honestly just control your spending and know what's going on is to use cash and

i know that's kind of now even since covet and all of that it's kind of like a it feels like a dying art in the world today and so i do tell people like it doesn't have to be for every category but if you especially people just starting out budgeting when you are just at the forefront of hey i'm for the first time actually saying i have x amount for groceries

this month that's the first time you've ever done that yeah you know to have anything visual to help you day in and day out and cash really does that i mean it can be inconvenient at times but if you have a couple of categories in your budget to really help and say hey i'm going to just cash these out and use it and so the the wallets that

i created helps with that so we partnered with join who's an incredible organization out in india and they rescue people from just just trauma devastating life stories and really take them and give them a trade show them a skill and put them to work so they're able to earn money so it's a beautiful redeeming

business that join is i mean they just do an incredible job in india um and and

i'll say this too for people that have bought the wallets um the owner i was talking to her a few weeks ago and she just said and thanked us so much for partnering with them because even during coven you know india was hit so drastically hard during that time and where everything shut down they were still able to employ people and still keep people in business which

i think is just a beautiful amazing element to all of this which i just love but um but the wallet we released a new color this week and so it's called classic brown i love it classic brown uh but for the fall season so if you have not checked that out make sure to do that you can do that over at ramseysolutions.com what are the colors remind me what

the colors are that you have available now i know this is getting added but what are the other ones yeah so we have a camel so we have like a uh i don't know how it's a lighter brown i guess you could say yeah and then black and then we had a metallic blush for a short period of time and it sold out within like i think

it was 15 days they're all gone because it was beautiful too so popular yes yeah but but yeah but i just i do i love um these

tools whether it's a whether it's a book that we have you guys or a planner or this wallet whatever it is to integrate into your life and help you because you find that do you have things in your life that just it help you stay on track with things that you want cause goal setting and knowing where you're going intentionality is so important to winning not just in money yes

but in so many aspects well it's one of the things that we teach here but we also live out we want to help you live the principle so anything that we create from ramsey solutions from any of our personalities is going to be a tool that helps you work the plan we don't just create stuff just to create it it is specifically to help you get those results

and so that's what i love about it because there's such a purpose and depth to any product

it's not just a product it's not just cute and it is beautiful but it actually helps you work the plan and so i love the the purpose behind it yep absolutely absolutely all right well christy and i are again taking your calls here on the ramsay show triple eight eight two five five two two five we're about to head into a break soon christy but um what else do

you have going on that's that's exciting so one of the things that's really fun with the end of the year and we've talked about this with goal setting but i think people in this year with the pant well with the pandemic last year but even this year people are just starting to rethink their lives they're rethinking where they work jobs yeah that's what it's so fun to think about ken coleman's new book coming out in just a few weeks from paycheck to purpose whether it's a career change setting new goals finally getting their money under control people are rethinking

and i think you're going to see a lot of people make some positive changes because of that new awareness yep absolutely absolutely so great well again aaa 825-5225 christina are here to answer your questions we'll be back

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welcome back america i am rachel cruz here with christy wright taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five all right we're going to jason in chattanooga hey jason

welcome to the show how are you guys today doing great

great thanks for taking my call i have a

two-part question for you guys

the first part of the question would be

my wife was terminated from an employer

after 17 years with the company due to

the vaccine mandate and we are navigating through this new

chapter in life and i i really just want to know

what is a way that i can support her

through this let me give you a little bit of background she's been in corporate for 17 years and she's going to transition to go into small business with me so i know that's completely different from what she is used to so i know there's a morning process i see her going through that now and and yeah i thought christy you might could help me with that part of it yeah well i love how you first acknowledge that there's a mourning process because um it is it's different

and and there's a lot more going on at

her um leaving this job of 17 years than

just losing the paycheck or using the losing the day-to-day responsibilities because there's there's this feeling of was i just a unit of production was that just a you know is that is that how after 17 years i'm going to be treated and so um yeah there's there's the there's a lot of feelings attached to this transition but also moving into the small business type of role is just going to be a different day-to-day different responsibilities different energy tell me a little bit more about what

you do and what she's going to be doing yeah so i work at a insurance agency

a property and casualty insurance agency here in town and the timing as far as me needing help

to take it to the next level is really it's really good timing from that standpoint so i don't think any of this happened um you know just accidentally right i really don't i think the lord was completely orchestrating all this that doesn't take away the morning process and all those things that go with that but definitely um it's good timing from that standpoint okay well here's what

i would do this is a very simple practice and so many people don't do it okay so so don't underestimate it because it's simple i would sit down with your wife and when y'all are ready to talk about her role in the business and that type of thing i would have i would ask her say i want you to define what success looks like in this role for

you what are your what tasks are you passionate about what are you good at what does a typical day look like what gets you energized what do you love doing and let's just and with in light of what you're doing right like in the context of what she would be doing for you write out that list and then you separately write out a list of what success looks like for

you what is the help that you need what are the problems you need solved what are the gaps that you need filled and see where this overlap falls

between what she wants to do and what you need now likely there's going to be some things that you need that she doesn't want to do and you can figure out what to do with those does she do them anyway because we all have things we don't want to do sure or do you find someone else to do that part of it but i think the biggest factor to set

you guys up for success is simply defining success from the get-go success in her mind and success in your mind and making sure that there's a connection point between those it may not be 100 overlap maybe it's 80 percent overlap and you figure out what to do with the other 20 percent but so often um you have an idea in your head and she has an idea in her head

and you all both start running and those are not the same idea and that leads to conflict miscommunication and just overall frustration and more mistakes made so i would just have her write out what this looks like have you write out what it looks like define success and then just have some conversations around that i think that's going to set you up uh from a really strong standpoint out of

the gate yeah that's good jason is is the things that she was doing in her previous job going to be similar to kind of what she's well not really she's she was a senior manager at a company um

very high up and so i i knew from the

beginning that her identity finding an identity that she's happy with is going to be difficult because this is so much different than a large company so i've already given her some things to do taking some i.t stuff and running with it and she has really enjoyed that she's already played with that some so i think just finding the identity is going to be a big deal this may be a real basic question

but she want to do this i know you need it but does she want to do this for you i think she does i just think yeah i think she would tell you that she does well i think i mean that's that's huge but and i just heard you say she went from a senior manager role that she very much found a part of her identity in which is fine to being more of a support role for

you

that's a shift not in not just in tasks but in the role that you play and so i think that if you're sensitive to that that will be huge especially in this transition process but if she wants to do it then she'll she'll want to figure out how to make that make that modification how how old is she jason she's 44. 44. okay okay yeah so she still has some years we've been married 20 years and we've never dealt with anything like this thankfully applying their principles you guys teach and mr ramsey

teaches we're we're in good shape um

the second thing i wanted to add real quick if i can we have a 401k

that we have invested specifically the way dave has said his gross stock mutual funds long track record we've done that for years and it's it's done very very well what do we do with this thing now should we sit on it for a couple of months and let the smoke settle what do you guys recommend

the first thing i would say is to contact one of our smartvestor pros because they'll be able to tactically help you walk through tangibly all of these changes but traditionally i would say when you leave a company that you would want to roll your 401k into just a traditional ira

if you guys can pay the taxes on it you could even do a roth ira at that point um but again a smart investor pro can definitely walk through all those details yep and that thanks jason

you know he brings up an interesting point and um i guess i've thought about this but not just in depth is is that um shift of people that are leaving their jobs changing careers for whatever reason it could be anything but how much we do find and value especially if you love your work and your job right um who you are in it right and then there's that morning

you know that takes place especially if it's a if it's a decision that wasn't your own or you felt backed in a corner that you had to leave um that is really real for a lot of people out there that are in transition one i think there we can swing to these extremes of we only find our identity in our work and that's a dangerous place to be

because your work can change just like even finding your identity in relate in terms of relationships if those relationships change we we there's a danger in our only source of identity being followed there uh falling there but then we can swing to the other extreme of saying well um i don't find my identity in anything that i do it's like my identity is in christ and it's just that simple

and that sounds nice but there's a very healthy normal level of identifying with the work that you do every day if you spend 40 plus hours a week of doing anything you're going to find at least a part of your identity there yeah and and i think as long as you hold it with open hands and understand this is something that i do it's not who i am yes

but because i do it so much i do identify with that i do pride myself on the work that i do or you know you've been with this company 17 years like that that's a big part of who you are anytime you invest a lot of time in something a job a relationship anything it does become a part of you and when that changes if it does

there is a little bit of mourning and um and so i think we have to figure out what that healthy balance in the middle looks like of yes we're going to find a little bit of our identity there like i identify as i'm a runner you know yeah yeah it's like it's like i don't you identify as that i do i do not and you don't and

you don't really mourn the loss of that no i don't i quit marathon training two weeks in i was like heck no this is stupid but this is a healthy amount yeah there's a healthy amount of holding with open hands and going yeah this is part of who i am in a healthy normal way yes and at the same time it's not only who i am and

so i think we need to just acknowledge that because when you're going through a change or losing a part of yourself yeah give yourself some grace in that transition in that morning because that was a big piece of who you were and it's okay if that changes you know and i think that there's not you know there shouldn't be shame or embarrassment either to have those feelings

and i love that even jason pointed that out about his wife because i think sometimes we can be in the mindset of like just you know pull your boots up and just just charge you know it's like no there's a big part of your life that is shifting and changing and if that makes that's hard and sad then let it be you know for a little bit

so that's great awesome well christy and i again uh are happy to be here answering your questions you also triple eight eight two five five two two five and we'll be back

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if you aren't strapped with student loan payments you probably know someone who is there are millions of people that are literally putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're just stuck and they're waiting and waiting and the worst part is they're waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness and it's just it's a joke uh our team has produced a new documentary you guys and it's incredible it's called borrowed future and it is out now it uncovers the dark side of the

student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you

and so you'll see dave ramsey weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program and has interviews with some of the industry insiders and thought leaders like seth godin seth from and dr john deloney

and we're coming at this hard ramsey solutions really we're taking a big swing at the student loan problem with the goal to lock arms with parents and students around the country with the truth that you do not have to take out loans to get a college degree you can graduate debt free and avoid the predatory student loan industry so borrowed future is available now you can watch it on apple tv amazon prime google play or go to borrowed future.com

find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping and with the new promo codes they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsay to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from daisy in tennessee i work full time and also have a side business that i've worked hard to build it's grown to

the point where it's becoming hard to manage my time and i've not done a good job of serving my customers which really bothers me i've been praying about working on my business full time and leaving my current job how do i overcome the fear of leaving a great job and benefits so i love this question because it's really common and anyone listening right now that has a side business maybe

you have a side hustle maybe you started it just to work on your debt snowball faster and as you're doing it you're thinking wow i really love this it gives me joy i'm passionate about it what if i did this full time what if i could quit my full-time job well the thing that we tell people all the time is we don't want you to walk out on your study paycheck tomorrow

i don't want you to have this jerry maguire moment where you grab the goldfish and say who's with me that's fun in the movies and not fun in real life nothing will make your dream a burden like having um

the money being the driver driving force where you the money's not there so here's what i want you to do for daisy or anyone daisy one of the things that you said in your question is that you've grown it to the point where you're spending a lot of time on it but you didn't mention how much money you're making in it and i'm not as interested how much time you spent on it as i am how much money you're making as long as that time converts to two dollars you're bringing in and so what we tell people to do is you need to build up your side business so much from a financial standpoint the revenue the personal income standpoint that it can support you now let's say for example that daisy is working a full-time job and she makes 60 000 a year and her side business she's built it up to 30 000.

to help you know put a down payment on the next one or is it dumb to have two mortgages

neither of our homes are paid off yet we both again are debt-free and you know have good income stuff like that yeah that's great great question and i'll tell you mike from always sitting in the seat that i'm in when i hear real estate questions i like have my husband and my dad in my head because they love real estate they love passive income this is like their bread

and butter they love it so my answer i'm telling you comes from someone who is in a family and married to someone who loves real estate but when it comes to investment properties um and expanding past just that fifteen percent of your income into retirement on baby step four we really want you to be in baby step seven uh when you go to look at rental properties

and and i know that's not the answer you wanted because you're like we have stable income we're good i know you wanted me to just be like yes you can keep one and i and i understand even mathematically you could look and say yeah i mean it should work with the math but what you have to remember is that life happens and the two mortgages and if

you don't have a tenant in the house or if something breaks i mean it's just this level of risk at this point and so you guys uh you're in an amazing position i mean you guys don't have consumer debt uh you both own homes so even selling those in this market today if that's what you're choosing to do um to go buy something else you should have great equity

so but my question would be why why not just live in one of them and sell the other well we've thought about that um certainly but we you know both of our houses are are small and if if and when the time comes for kids and dogs and things like that are you know we have less less than a thousand square foot in our house okay um

so we're just thinking you know more yeah down the road when that comes kind of deal absolutely and i think that that's that's wise but i would i would encourage you guys at this point especially since you're going to be newly married to maybe just say hey for a year we're going to just live in one of our homes and just kind of let the death settle get marriage worked out figure

you know get all this kind of in a in a more you know quote unquote stable position because of a big life change like marriage and then maybe it's

i don't know fall of 2022 and you say okay we're ready for a bigger place uh and then you choose to make that leap um to something brand new versus just living in one of yours just as an idea because you guys aren't you don't have to have something bigger right this second i mean if you were expecting or something like that i could see that um

but even just being in one house just for a little bit uh i don't i don't think is a bad plan at all well and one of the things that that will give you um mike is it will just give you perspective of that first year of marriage because when you get married i remember the first year of marriage with matt we learned so much about each other

and how we lived and house responsible like there's a big learning curve of merging your life with someone else and what's so interesting is in a year you guys may know more about what you want what neighborhood you want to be in what you want in a house and once you've lived together to talk about some of that stuff you could you could guess now but you'll really know

after a year of living together so it definitely can't hurt um and the other thing that i just would remind you um mike is a lot of times we'll have this question of should i do this and it's just because you're sort of inheriting a situation if you would not set out to go buy a rental property to become a landlord your first year of marriage then you're not going to keep that situation in which puts

you in that situation sometimes we just want to keep it because we're already there well if you wouldn't go do that today then it's not the right thing yep so i'd live in one of the homes sell the other one and then here in about nine nine to 12 months look to sell that and move up in house if you guys want congratulations mike too marriage is awesome we're excited for

it this is the ramsey show

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welcome back america this is rachel cruz

and rams personality and best-selling author christy wright you can give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five and we are answering your questions all right up next is john in grand rapids michigan hey john welcome to the show hey good afternoon ladies how are you doing great how can we help hey got a question for you um

i was planning on going on a vacation this weekend and just had an emergency arise today that's going to probably take half of our emergency fund and we're thankful we have that but i

don't know if i should cancel this vacation and you know go back to stockpiling money to rebuild our emergency fund or worry about that when i get back great question was your emergency fund more on the six month end of the spectrum or more like the three month before the emergency uh it was closer to three it was probably three to four three to four so it cuts it down to what probably a month and a half of savings yeah about about that we

don't know for sure um i would i made a really bad judgment call and drove my tractor over top my septic tank and fell through wow so we have to get a new septic tank put in gosh

tell me a little bit because i mean it's this weekend it's in like 48 hours right

yeah i'll be leaving early early saturday morning okay what what it is it entails all the family i'm just nope it's just me i'm going by myself i plan to trip up to the upper peninsula michigan just to go do some photography for four or five days gotcha um it's fairly cheap you know three on the low end 500 on the high end is how much i'd spend on the whole trip with gas and everything so yeah and how much do you make a year john uh household incomes about 85. 85.

you know i have i always have big dave in my head sitting there i was like you got two spenders giving you advice right now listen john honestly i mean again if

you were going to be spending 10 grand going somewhere super fancy and all of this i would probably let's pause but three to five hundred dollars with your income everything i mean i think you're fine going i mean i would i would focus in on when you get back yeah bumping that back up um but to build up that emergency fund you could you you can do that in three or four months focusing all your efforts um and now now it i will say this though john it is a vaca it's not a i always

feel the pressure that if it's a vacation that you know you can't cancel because of a hotel policy if there's family if other people are involved in the plans that that's a harder one to just flat out cancel this one it's just you so if you didn't want to press pause and go in two months you could do that and probably be on the safe side but because it's not a huge dollar amount and you still have around a month and a half two-month buffer there um

i'm okay with it and we tell people once you're once you're debt-free like you know yes you want to build that emergency fund fast but that's when you're able to kind of celebrate and enjoy life um a little bit more yeah i think for me the dollar amount is what is the determining factor like i don't know what dave would say if he were here if he would hear

he might be like no don't go but dave's done here john dave's not here me and rachel are your friendly spenders just giving you advice no i mean seriously it's it's it's negligible in the grand scheme of the emergency funds you already have and the income that you make and it's in two days go take some pictures enjoy your photography i don't think it's a big deal

if you want to cancel it you can there it's it's not a big deal either way but i think if you want to go you can start building that emergency fund right back up when you get back the fact that you're even calling shows that you're cognizant you're you're a saver you're doing great yeah uh but yeah i don't think it's a big deal if you go

and consult your wife and if she's feeling uncomfortable then i would i would add that in there too but i think i think you're i think you're good again again only because you have still some emergency fund it's not a huge dollar amount and your income is 85 000 a year yeah it's gonna i think you're gonna be you're gonna be okay it's not gonna make her your

this vacation is not gonna make or break your emergency fund that's right or your ability to build it back up that's right all right up next is t shaw in wichita kansas hey welcome to

the show how are you ladies great what's going on

good uh well i'm my husband and i are kind of in the middle of trying to make some decisions as far as what it is we want to do um with our lives as far as if we move and potential career changes if we decide that we want to go that route and really my question is you know how do you go about discussing those decisions you know full-time parents full-time jobs

and then you get home you're exhausted and you're just kind of overwhelmed with everything coming at you in life because i feel like we've got it coming at all ends um yeah well tell tell us a little bit more about your situation what do you both currently do for work and what are your kids ages and how many kids give us a little bit of a picture of what we're talking about here okay

so um i'm a financial spreads analyst for bank and my husband is a heavy equipment operator and foreman for a construction company um so both very solid you know essential jobs when it comes to that and our children are the oldest is three years and the youngest is just 10 months you know so they're they're very active um you know going to daycare full-time of course i want to be a stay-at-home mom

i never thought i would say that um you know and there's just everything going on has made me just kind of want to go home and squeeze my kids and just not even worry about work the next morning um you know there's been a lot going on in the community you know that just makes you feel like life is just way too short to be focused on

the career yeah

um so t-shirt so is your is your goal here to shift out of working to be that stay-at-home mom um i would like to yeah i would really like to do that um i don't know if that's possible yeah have you guys are you guys on are you guys on a budget baby step two you're on baby step two yeah we're yeah we're on baby step two we have about 85

000 in debt and we bring depending on my husband's job annually both of us household income is about 80 to 90 000 a year 80 to 90

combined yes combined okay um well this is i mean it's really a

value system kind of conversation i mean obviously the math when you're looking just strictly at the money on the piece you know the seat that i sit in um to get you guys out of debt the fastest

and to get yourself in a stable position um i mean you guys you know if you really buckle down you could be you could be out of debt in two and a half years if you really just cut everything

or you could just map it out and say okay if we if i do quit and i stay home and this is cut by how much how much do you contribute to the 80 to 90 000

half of it okay so it goes down to 40 45

000 um and what does that look like and so um for some people it's worth it some people it's like yeah we will i'll figure out a way if i can make money from home because my number one desire is to be with my kids right now and that's all i want some people say you know what i'm going to sacrifice that longing for just 48 more months sorry 24 more months and do what i can

to to get this debt out of the way um but again i think it is a it's a it's a values conversation between you and your husband and what and what you what you decide but this this debt is holding you back and that's one of the reasons we we talk so strongly about this whether it's student loans or car loans it's like this this this culture

you know you're you're working to pay bills and that sucks you know that that is that's the miserable part of all of this uh t-shirt you said you're a financial analyst yes okay i i think that you can look for something else i i think that you can look for something else and work from home there are a bazillion work from home jobs you can be making more than you're making right now with your skill set

you also could start a business if you wanted to if you'll stay on the line i'll have kelly send you a copy of my book business boutique because while that's a plan to start your business it also might just give you your idea for what your business is but i think you don't want to walk out tomorrow like we said but i do think you can start to look at something that could still get

you out of debt but help you be home a little bit more absolutely all right i want to thank our producer ben hill and associate producer kelly daniel and you chrissy wright for co-hosting the show with me so fun and this is the

ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsay advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey

show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am best-selling author ramsey personality rachel cruz hosting today

with my good friend best-selling author and host of the christy wright show christy wright this is so fun i love this good to be back with you we are hitting the phones this hour you guys were talking about everything from yeah everything that involves your life whether it's your money it's your work it's your kids it's your schedule it's your balance anything all of it uh we

are here to hang out and and talk about it which is just so fun i love this show because i just love diving into people's lives for about five four to five minutes depending how long we have with them um because everyone has a story yeah everyone has things going on in their life and christy and i are sitting here in the studio in in nashville tennessee just here wanting to help direct and guide you on everything

that um everything we know i don't know though this is so uh known as a money show you know it's been a money show for over 30 years and people often think they're calling in with a money question and it's rarely a money question sometimes it is sometimes it's as simple as yeah we're going to move this investment here or we need to save this amount of money sometimes

it is a lot of times it's a deeper conversation and we had some of that in the last hour um you guys call in you know we'll have here here's the conversation my spouse and i can't agree on this that or the other and it's really a marriage question it's a it's a communication question it's a relationship question it's a boundaries question and so we love to help

you look at this through a different lens and peel away the layers of the issue below the issue and talk about it there and oh by the way of course that does have an effect in your money decisions and in your bank account but um yeah that's the reason we like to let you guys know we're not just talking about money if you have a question about something else we're here for

you but often the money questions are actually uh a different type of question uh camped in that so we're here to help you absolutely so again triple eight eight two five five two two five okay we have ruth in seattle up next hey ruth welcome to the show hey you two are amazing thanks okay i'm pretty sure this is a money question all right

my question has to do with how exactly to calculate the emergency fund um i

mean i'm in baby step three and um we'll probably make about 45 k this year between instacart shopper and ubereats and i'm trying to figure out does the stream of well i'm kind of on the fence about three or six months but

when it comes down to the numbers

is it three let's go let's go with the three months just for example um is it three months of everything including lifestyles if any any and all bills that you've got or do or should i chisel down to say the

other day i kind of pretended i you know pretend you have a car you had a car accident and just to figure out what you would be paying for it and what you would cancel out yeah for three months type thing how would you which one would you go with yeah that's a great question ruth um you know you can go about this kind of both ways honestly

i talk to some people and they want the three three-month emergency fund where their life doesn't change that if they lose a job or a spouse loses a job or something happens that they don't have to shift their lifestyle much that they have three months that they can live consistently on uh as is now other

people it is more of the bare bones it's more like hey to not be late on bills electricity cell phone it's more of those four walls making sure we're eating where we we get the mortgage paid or the rent paid uh it's really the bare bones and calculating that and you're so in that instance you're cutting out things like out to eat you're cutting out shopping if

you have a clothing you know thing that you can you can do without that for a few months like more of that bare bones so it's kind of how quickly you want to get to it and then to decide

okay is it three or six months so so i would lean on the three-month side you know if someone is out there and they're single if they have a pretty steady income you know a job that's pretty predictable you could probably live on a three-month emergency fund now if you have kids a

lot of dependents if you're married if you're on commission uh if you're ju if it's not really a very stable you know situation like you said for yours for instance you know instacart and ubereats is that what you're saying you do yeah so for that you know that's a little bit more volatile in a sense you know you're not just on a strict salary so in your case

i would probably lean closer to a six-month mark in that but whichever one you take and for you because you're gonna be on that six month i would almost do a bare bones budget to say okay if i cut out all the fluff of my lifestyle and really have to stick to my bills um i would have that um as your six month if i were you ruth are

you are you married do you have kids no but it's just me okay okay awesome so

um yeah i mean i hope yeah you know it's great um so yeah so if i were you i mean well yeah now that you're not i mean you could probably do closer to four months if you wanted um and again it can be the bare-bones budget or you could say i just want to be comfortable um and have that that budget they want to get to

the next goal huh what'd you say well they're all going to know how fast they want to get to the next goal basically yeah it does that but i think that's the reason i mean the way that i've always looked at it ruth um and i don't know that anyone's ever told me this i think i've just kind of looked at it this way the reason we give that range is for that reason

we we give a range of three to six months and i've always looked at it as if you're going the three month route it's probably going to be a three month you're not changing your lifestyle if you're in the six month route it's probably six months of bare bones but the number could be defined either way it's yes three months if we don't change anything or it's our sixth month of bare bones

you know if um like in in my case having three little kids i want a more full emergency fund for peace of mind because i have more people i'm responsible for in your case i mean yeah like if you're like yeah i feel good on four months of you know uh middle middle of the ground you know middle road whatever i think you're fine i think we give

you that range for some freedom and flexibility with your comfort level probably all of our savers and our nerds are gonna have a six month and all of our spenders like i'm fine on three months so uh there's a little bit of flexibility in there for you to adapt it for what's right for you yeah that and i think that is so true that when i first got married

and we were going we were doing the baby steps we did it and it was like okay we had the emergency fund and and i had some money that i brought in he had a little bit of savings we were kind of like you know i was like oh yeah three definitely three months barebone plenty let's move on let's move on and then once i had kids

we have a family i went back um i mean it's probably been five years now or so but i was like hey let's like really beef up that emergency fund just so i know so i know so i know so i know that that's in there if something happens and that's the beautiful thing you guys about this i mean and ruth congrats on being on baby step three that means that she's gotten out of debt that's right

and now you're moving on to that and ruth i'm excited for you to hit that baby step three because there is this emotional piece that you get when you're like okay i don't owe anyone anything we have money saved so god forbid i i lose a job something shifts uh another pandemic like whatever happens there is that safety net and there is something to that peace of mind that is priceless yeah yeah absolutely that's why it's

there it's not just about the money it's about the peace of mind absolutely this is the ramsay show

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well you guys i have the perfect gift for you and all the women on your shopping list for this holiday season this gift actually makes budgeting look beautiful i have had a best-selling camel color wallet and black color wallet

of the rachel cruz wallets and we are out now with a brand new color just in time for the holidays and it's actually the most popular color according to the manufacturer that we work with and that is classic brown so this genuine leather classic brown wallet can literally go with anyone's style it's timeless which is my favorite and the best part is that these wallets go beyond just the beautiful exterior that you see but it really does it helps you budget it is handmade authentic

leather so it smells really wonderful i'm unboxing one over here and it is so beautiful it's such quality leather and like we were talking about earlier this is the tool that helps you work the plan with your cash that's right you can see when your cash is getting low in your in your specific slot for whatever that thing is that full-blown envelope system right here and all

the debit card slots that you need so last christmas um we saw post after boast of people saying that this was the perfect gift they were buying it for all the women in their life which is so fun so it is available to order now and we'll ship by early november so you can get your rachel cruz wallet and our classic brown

color by texting rc brown to 33789 again that's rc brown

three three seven eight nine even the box is beautiful like this is like it's a perfect gift box isn't it great the presentation is is awesome yeah i appreciate that and just a reason a reminder for people um shipping is just weird right now across the country everyone is experiencing unpredictability some delays in shipping so if you want something from the ramsey solutions store for christmas get

it now whether it's the wallet or a book or something else get it now just to make sure you don't face any of those close calls in december absolutely all right we're gonna go to the phones with christopher in atlanta georgia hey christopher welcome to the show hi thank you guys for being here absolutely how can we help all right i guess um my question will be um i'm 22 right now uh making about a little bit over um 85k wow um

i guess um my question would be

kinda what um but i guess what what exactly um with being

22 some steps that i can take to make sure that i'm managing my money properly um with making this type of money um being this young yeah it's a great question great question yeah what do you what do you do i'm a cloud engineer great so so awesome oh man okay 22 making 85 000 do you do

you have any debt um right now i have um about

about uh 9k and um in student loan but i still

have about a semester left so um i'm debating about just go ahead and pay it off and i have about about 40 40k um saved up wow

that's awesome um well to answer your question yes i would pay off that student loan i mean that 9 000 for sure i'd pay that off and then cash flow that last semester of school um which is absolutely incredible incredible well i'll give you my top piece of advice and then christy you can you can chime in so at 22 i mean you have so much going for

you the fact that obviously your income is amazing you really you're gonna be debt free by the end of today and if it were up to me that you just write the check and you do it um but you know i think the biggest mistake people make christopher that we see all the time is that they're just not intentional and i know it's a really broad piece of advice

but people really do they float through life they make great money just like you and they just spend and go and they look up

at 40 45 and they realize oh gosh you know i've tacked on some debt here i i don't really have a lot in retirement and oh and they feel themselves realizing well i was not intentional with this money and so if you really do kind of buckle down live on a budget which again where you're at budget does not mean that it's going to limit your lifestyle in fact it's going to give

you a lot of freedom to enjoy your lifestyle and if you i'll have you hang on the line when we get off the call here because we'll give you a subscription to ramsey plus because every dollar plus is our budgeting app that helps with this and helps you budget and know exactly where every dollar is going um and there and there's something powerful about that and then from

there being able to walk the baby steps and again with you you you pretty much are on baby step four five and six at this point um meaning that you'll be out of debt you have a fully funded emergency fund and you're gonna be able to start investing into retirement uh saving up for a house if you haven't bought a home and that's something you to do in

the near future and really i mean you're going to walk this path so fast christopher um which is amazing and to be able to just be extremely generous as well and that's another piece of that puzzle i would put in but all of that to say under the umbrella of just do things on purpose yeah be intentional don't just float through life with your money yeah the only thing that

i would um add christopher just in consideration of the overall plan that rachel just laid out for you the one thing that's um specific to you is your age and so you are at such a young age

and coming into um a season of life where a lot of people experience a lot of transition so i love how much money you have saved i would just continue to add to that in addition to you know paying off the debt like she said and cash flowing college and um starting investing and all that just continue to stockpile cash because if and when you're ready to buy a house you've got a down payment

if you decide to get married you've got some money for a wedding a honeymoon whatever and so there's a a lot of people experience a lot of very expensive life changes between 20 and 30 in a lot

of cases and so you're already on that track just um maybe go above and beyond your your three to six months expenses from a savings standpoint because you may want to access that money for a house down payment that type of thing and you could start now and then gosh you have that much more to put down when and if you're ready to do it yeah you're doing awesome yeah christopher can

i ask you you know what was your upbringing like did your parent or parents like talk to you about this stuff or you just kind of happen to not have a ton of student loans but great income or what kind of what's your story um it's kind of a little difficult to explain um kane um from you

know that went ahead and got adopted um young age and um got into a couple situation actually um have kids um have kids very young um and that's kind of what really really made me you know started focusing and so on

yeah and and since then i just know that i i i want to be ahead in life um for them and

and so on and i guess i'm just wanting to go back where i came from and um starting the orphanage opening something like that um and i know that i have to work hard from another age to be able to do that i guess that that's really was my upbringing just making sure that i can get ahead as young as possible and to be able to to do all

the stuff that i have planned and making sure all my kids have a good life instead of them yeah wow absolutely that's amazing and you are oh oh absolutely i mean just obviously calling in and being aware of the responsibility that you have because that is one thing you know you consider we we talk about money here a lot and money i always say is a tool to create a life that

you love you want to take control of it but it is a tool it's not the end i'll be all it's not the thing that the number one goal that you know you're working towards is just it's just cash and money um it is a

tool to do life with i mean it is a tool to create a life that you want it's a tool to be able to help people and so making any kind of money i mean you know if you what is it if you have two cars and food in your refrigerator you're like in the top two percent of the universe or something right i mean like so

there there's just a level of responsibility that we all have and that we carry to do this well to do this well and not let the money ruin us uh from an emotional standpoint or a financial where you go into so much debt and it's stressful and you know you're working a job you hate to pay bills all of that but but really seeing this is okay

this is this is a responsibility how do i do this well yeah and it was like you were just talking about being intentional i mean you already have been christopher with having forty thousand dollars in savings that didn't just appear in your bank account that's right you have been intentional and worked really hard to get there i think just um following those baby steps and continuing that you're going to be able to set yourself up to do those things

you just described for the legacy you want to leave to be the type of person you want to be to help the people that you want to help and i think that's awesome and when you have a deeper why that is what fuels you way more than anything at the surface and you do christopher you do well done absolutely and to show that your past does not dictate your future your past choices

you can make decisions today to change yeah not just who you are but even your money habits and what you're doing with this so so well done christopher very very awesome well this is the ramsey show again we're taking your calls america aaa 825-5225

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well in the lobby of ramsey solutions on

the debt free stage we have nick and

ashley and you're on the stage for a reason i know that you guys welcome to the show thank you where are you guys from minden nevada okay nevada great okay so

you guys you're here to do your debt-free scream congratulations thank you yeah so how much debt did you guys pay off uh thirty six thousand one hundred and eighty three dollars awesome count and count the dollars i love that thirty six thousand and how long did it take you ten months ten months making what kind of money we started at 48 000 and got up to 104.

whoa what quite a jump there tell us about that we both switched jobs which was part of it the first month was just on her income because i was in between switching jobs and then with the job i went to i got in a much better spot and then she switched jobs as well what do you guys do i'm a service writer for hyundai okay and then

i work in a dental office yes awesome amazing okay and how long have you guys been married three years three years okay so what happened 10 months ago that you said oh this this 36 000 is just we're

feeling it we originally did this it was a prerequisite by her father to go through financial peace before we got married oh and uh me too

we went through that and we're like oh we don't have that much debt and then a couple years into being married we we switched it up and it was like okay it's it's time to do this yes well and i think when he was switching jobs we were going to go a month where it was just my income and we looked at our budget and we were like we're not going to make

it like and that was a point for us where we're like we don't have anything in savings we don't have like any extra money i don't know how we're gonna get groceries for like this next month while we're just waiting on like my income so i think that was like our low point and we're like we can do this yeah so what was the 36 000 it was cars credit card

and then an old car loan that we didn't even have the car anymore anymore so it's just kind of normal so i mean you are the classic you kind of just are living paycheck to paycheck if something happens you're like oh gosh what do we do we can't we can't make it so what was the conversation like then when you realized okay we are not going to make

it on just my income i'm we're starting to kind of freak out we're starting to see the reality of this debt and the bills

who came to who how did that conversation happen she came to me i am 110 free spirit here um i have very

expensive tastes and a lot of things and she was like hey um we i want to get out of debt i you know i was that one for a while i was like we'll do it over time like you know it's fine it'll go away and then uh it never went away and it got to the point the month i was switching jobs i'm like wow i

i don't want this anymore yeah sometimes that sometimes that freak out that you guys described is incredibly motivating to change like you almost need this freak out moment where you're scared enough to consider doing something different and doing something hard i think it's funny that you said you're the um you were the resistant one because i've noticed a consistent pattern that the resistant spouse is always the free spirit actually it's never

the nerd that's like i don't know if we should save money it's like they're always the one that's on board the free spirit's like no don't box me rules it'll just go away i love that say i love that you said that i was like oh yeah it'll just go away exactly and you know she just kept like sliding me brochures and like conveniently i'd find her old financial piece back

and i'm like okay i get it i get it i get it okay so what did you guys do i mean obviously you switched jobs so the income helped tremendously but what else what else did your did your story look like through this um i can't believe i'm going to say this but covet actually helped us with because you know you don't want to go out and do anything well

you can't go out and do anything so it was one of those that helped uh and i mean you know just sacrifices all around i mean well and you picked up pizza delivering too for a while and he was working six days a week and that was like our new normal was i would barely see him and then yeah when i did see him he was doing pizza runs

and all that yeah i went up to my boss it was like my second month i was like hey i know i'm supposed to work tuesday through saturday but i'm gonna work mondays too and he's like okay so amazing isn't that crazy i'm like the two elements of people's money it's your

expenses and when you cut that whether it's the culture has cut it for you because of covid and there's nothing to do and spend money on and you raise that income how drastic those those two elements if you can get those under control how much you can see that progress oh it's huge so what would the key be someone listening right now and they're thinking okay these guys got out of 36 000 worth of debt what would you say like the secret to getting out of debt is i heavily relied on my nerd i'll 100

admit it but um no i mean just just be a

team about it communication and everything is huge so what what did marriage look like for you guys because i mean this is a big it's a big struggle for people money and getting on the same page and i know i love that you're just so uh you just raise your hand and say yeah i'm the free spirit i'm the one that pushed back against it but what did those conversations look like at

the beginning a lot of them were let's sit down and talk to budget and i'd say maybe later and you know eventually it got to i wanted to talk about the budget but i mean it was a lot you know there was there was the tough times i mean you know we used to go on road trips to go visit family and we'd just listen to the show over

and over and it was just it was driving it was huge yeah it's amazing too because you guys had to make those sacrifices and now you get to experience the reward of it not just financially but even just oh my gosh we were a team we didn't see each other a lot when we were working those jobs and now it's like we get time together and you can take your foot off

the gas a little bit and enjoy the fruit of your hard work i think it's so interesting when people sacrifice so much they appreciate it that much more because you work so hard to get there yeah so absolutely who were the biggest cheerleaders in your life during this time like our parents yeah yeah our friends didn't really understand they're like why can't you hang out i thought you're crazy yes oh that's amazing

you guys well you've done an absolute incredible incredible job so how does it feel how does it feel standing there without any payments surreal i remember sitting in my car at like lunch breaks and listening to the show and being like so frustrated because i'm like we're never gonna get here it's taking forever like we only have like 50 extra dollars this month or whatever and so it's

so swirl being here

and being able to be where we are now and not have that weight or anything yeah it's freedom it is and and the beautiful thing that i love that you just said is i'm like there is hope that it is possible because people are right now are sitting in their cars thinking the exact same thing and you just gave them that green light to say no even though it's it's an up

and down journey right it's not this like straight up there's good days there's bad days but as you continue to be consistent in it and you get the reward and you guys did it congratulations so so excited for you well we're going to give you a copy of the legacy journey because that is your next step and the total money makeover so you can give to someone to pass on

but i'm so excited

for you guys nick and ashley from carson city paid off 36 000 in 10 months making 48 to 104

thousand dollars let's hear a big debt

free scream three two one we're dead

i love it i love it i i love their story

because i'm like this is textbook like this is exactly it and i talk to so many women who are like i can't awesome i can't you know i can get my husband on board he's the free spirit you know and then you're feeling this tension you feel like it's not gonna happen and then you're working it and it's like oh some weeks you know or some months

we only had fifty dollars and it feels like it never we're never gonna get there and and they did i just love ashley's persistence too because there's a lot of people listening right now and the spouse listening to the show is thinking i want so bad for my my spouse to get on board whether it's the the husband or wife or whatever i want so bad for my spouse to get on board

but i just love ashley's persistence and it paid off like it you know your spouse better than anybody you know the best way to go about it how to have conversations how to to connect there on things that you guys disagree on and this is one of those things that it's worth it to be persistent it's worth it to keep on talking until you can guys guys can get on

the same page because you're not going to make progress until you're on the same page and i love that they got there and uh and now they have this to show for it yeah and and and i feel like consistently two people's income goes up usually when we do this call they say well we started here but we ended here with a big jump because something does unleash

when you have a goal that you're working towards something as big as being debt-free you're looking at every avenue right you're you're picking up you're saying i can work extra i can do what i can and it just shows the beauty of like yeah when you put your mind something it can happen that's right i love it so great well again congratulations nick and ashley for being debt-free

so glad that they're here with us this is the ramsay show

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welcome back america this is the ramsey

show i'm rachel cruz hosting with christy wright and we are here to answer your questions all right we're going to go over to ian in baltimore hey ian welcome to the show

hey rachel i'm kirsty aloha um so i have

a huge um dilemma to face um my wife and

i we're currently on baby step 3b

we have our 360 emergency fund

and we have two kids under three our huge dilemma is should we travel nurse as a family to either guam or move back home to where i'm from in hawaii and that's just part a because part b is is it is it even worth it financially to do it right now with the times with you know travel nursing being um a hot commodity is it financially smart for us to move as a family

so this is such a small question ian i mean this is just a tiny little question make the decision no big deal nothing really on the line here i don't know okay so ian how much extra would

you guys make because you would do this strictly out of a financial reason not because you just like long to travel be be you know travel as a nurse with your family well my so my wife is the nurse actually um so i mean you know we have our we have

we have enough money to where we can use our use it up but we we want to buy a house but same time we don't know where we're going to end up because we've been living a nomadic lifestyle moving from utah to texas now we're in maryland but we we kind of have that itch to move again um and we don't know where to settle and but

we want to travel right now where the kids are still young they're not in school and we want to live the life you know like kind of like what you're doing disneyland on random weekends yeah so

um but we we want to have that kind of lifestyle as a for for our kids um but

at the same time we want to you know eventually settle down but travel nursing has always been on top of my wife's list and i want to make it possible for her but i don't know financially for us we're kind of country to numbers is it it's costly it's going to cost us like 6 grand you fly to guam and then you know we've talked to several nursing agencies um but it's just

i don't know i mean i don't know what to do

i'm curious about the choices here did you say guam or hawaii where someone's family is yeah i'm from hawaii okay so you'd be settled if you went to hawaii you'd probably be there for like like that's kind of like planting roots we're gonna plant roots in hawaii probably um i don't know that's the thing we i moved to hawaii because i want i moved out of hawaii to you know have a better lifestyle i guess for more opportunities i mean i can't see my kids being raised there um so why would you go to hawaii

um because we want to be customers parents and my wife has never lived there she's only visited it but she's never lived there like i have man she wants my kids to have that experience yeah yeah yeah that's right like that nomadic lifestyle i don't know any other word i just don't know what to do because we don't want to settle but we want to travel and

so i don't know what and can you give us some like what would you do in your situation if you guys were have two kids under three you you had like an opportunity to travel you have nothing no tie yeah and ann can i tell you can i tell you what i would do with with two young kids in terms of traveling traveling is the last thing

i would want to do with two children so i'm having trouble relating because travel for me is zero fun with small children like that's the most stressful activity i do with my kids so i can't even sort of relate but here's the good news for you that i will speak to you call it asking if it's a financial decision and because y'all are debt-free and because you're on baby step 3b

and you're in a good position you actually don't have to make this decision based on money you're not asking about some massive expense because you'd be making more money so i know this is not maybe what you wanted to hear but you can kind of do what you want to which is why we tell people to get debt free in the first place is so that you can do what

you want to so if you're the kind of people that travel excites you in a new

place like guam i don't know what's going on in guam i don't know let's go move there and find out with our two small kids if that is fun for you i find that crazy ian but i think you should do it i think you should do what you want to do because you've earned the spot financially to be able to do what you want to do even

if i don't get it if somebody else doesn't get it it's your life your kids your family your money and you can and that's the coolest place to be so i think i think if you want to go you go go to guam and go

amen sister christy i i will i'm like

not no longer like i cannot relate and i would never want to drink my two-year-old with grandparents so we don't have to be on a plane with them so christie or we don't get it but no but for real ian christie's exactly right it's what you guys want i mean literally my i we had friends they sold their house put all their stuff in a storage unit

because they had no debt they saved up a ton of money over three years and their goal was to travel for six months around the world with their kids yeah and they did it and they paid cash and they did it and that's what you can do it's what you guys want so um yes understand and know that

each of these scenarios the hawaii or the traveling nurse maybe not to go on but somewhere else it's always going to be available so if you guys choose one and say hey we're going to move to hawaii for a little bit i would not buy a home in hawaii if you're not going to be there more than five years just that's a little financial advice i'm gonna give

you um but yeah maybe you go rent there for a year and your wife's like perfect i got the experience right now i'm done and then maybe you say all right we're gonna go back to the the big land of north america i guess hawaii's in north america go back and you know be have a more predictable lifestyle in a sense that we're gonna buy a home

and settle down or maybe you leave hawaii and you say we wanna go travel and be a nurse and now you can like these options aren't there's not gonna be closed doors i don't think for you guys um coming up does that help ian at all us just kind of talking through it uh yes it does um it's just like you know like the living situation i

we know like the market is so volatile right now um and it's just uh i guess financially

we're thinking like is it is it worth it to you know pay for our flights here and there to to live for that you know contract that she you know what if it's six to eight to 13 weeks um i'm not sure if you guys are from like travel nursing but like you know it's very it's unpredictable uh nothing is guaranteed there so you could have a contract that

you know it'll expire and then oh you need to go find another one so you'll have to move you know so just right but you make more right you make quite a bit more okay so here's the thing i just want to remind you you're not considering going to guam for nursing you can nurse right where you can have nursing the nursing job right where you are you're going for

the experience one of the things you said on this call that i think is so important to pay attention to is we have the itch rachel and i don't have that itch we don't know that itch that you're talking about but if you have it that's why you're going you're going for the experience of experiencing nursing somewhere else yes you're going to make a good income that will offset

the cost to get there but you're not going because it's a financial move if you think of it as a financial move then it doesn't necessarily make sense you're going because you want to have the experience of going somewhere you've never been and that's oh you're perfectly able to do that and that's totally fine i think it just comes down to you figuring out what this looks like for

you in your life and it's okay if it looks different than someone else it's okay if it doesn't look like your neighbors or what your parents did that's what's really cool about the world we live in you have put yourself in a position financially to look at that and say where do we want to work where do we want to live and maybe we're going to be nomads forever

and that's cool you can do that yep absolutely and i think that that is um the key part that i want people to hear about this is that they are in a place that they have no debt they have a fully funded emergency fund and they're saving up babysit 3b which is for a down payment on a home and again ian i would not purchase a home unless you're going to be somewhere for five years or longer

so just keep that savings going if you want but don't feel the pressure to put that down for a down payment on a house you're only going to be somewhere for a year or two but they but they have these choices they have the freedom with options and choices of what they want to do and that's the power of this you guys when you are intentional with your money

and you don't owe anyone anything and you have a safety net of a savings account like you get to make these decisions yeah maybe our parents generation thinks that we're crazy and you know but but i'm like you can you can go travel you can go live in hawaii for a year or two rent and why not i mean if that's what you're choosing to do and that's what that's what's fun for

you guys and as a family that's something you guys value there's nothing immoral about that you can you can live that out well that's what that's what everything that we teach is about it's not about the money it's about the options it gives you when you have money you have power when you have money if you control when you have money you have options you can move or

you want to move cover expenses you want to cover do what's right for you and so that is the purpose it's it's it allows you that and and you've got that ian you've done great absolutely absolutely well as we close out this hour i want to thank producer ben hill and associate producer kelly daniel and you chrissy for being on with me and you america for listening

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hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story [Music]

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i am rachel cruz best-selling author and ramsey personality sitting beside me today on the show is christy

wright best-selling author ramsey personality host of the christy wright show and real life friend yeah we're taking your calls working together and getting to have a little fun in the process that's right so you can give us a call at triple eight eight two five five two two five all right we have a

jeremiah in roanoke hey jeremiah welcome

to the show good afternoon rachel christie thanks for taking my call absolutely how can we help well i wanted to jump right into my question before i give a 10 second plug thank you for everything you guys do in educating the nation on the student bone crisis and the alternates by god's grace i am actually in the dissertation phase of a doctorate and have been able to make

it the entire way through without a penny of debt so it is happening i appreciate wow can i ask you a question jeremy how are you how did you do that because people think that's impossible it it you'd think it was impossible but no it's not uh it was a combination of there were some scholarships early on an undergraduate for my graduate degree for a master's i found out that

the school that my wife wanted to get a bachelor's in nursing in if i had a job any job there she got preschool and i got preschool so i worked security

for the time i was there and we got preschool that way and the rest have been cash flowing amazing jeremiah well done well well done all right thanks for letting me interview you for a second what's your question for us all right so my wife and i we are currently on baby steps four through six uh we have a home right now but we're starting to outgrow it so we paused and went back to 3b and

have been just stocking uh socking it away saving up for a down payment from a building standpoint uh right now we we have about 125 000 in

equity on our existing home we've got about 40 000 above our emergency fund that is saved for the home we want to build looking to have about 100 cash on hand for the for the down payment for the build it's going to take us probably another 12 to 18 months to get there i'm getting a little anxious uh pausing this long i'm four five and six i feel like it's a wise

plan but i guess i just wanted to run the numbers but you make sure you all thought that was a good plan jeremiah how old are you i am 37. you're 37.

and so your question is pausing four five and six to continue to build on

this baby step 3b is going to take you guys another probably what six months did you say six months a year about 12 to 18 months beyond where we're at right now and it and that will be 10 to 20 for your down payment for the build or is that better twenty percent that would be twenty percent for the build and then once the build is completed

and we sell our existing home uh we would have uh lord willing uh somewhere over a hundred thousand of equity that we would apply towards the principal on the on the new build okay well jeremiah i'll i'll say this i you're fine i understand that 12 months of pausing retirement um is kind of freaky and you're like oh gosh but you're going to be able to make up for that

so fast not just with your age but the fact that you guys already are going to have so much equity going into this home you're going to get to baby steps four five and six really quickly uh maybe even baby step six you may be able to pay off this house even even the new build you know with you know i didn't even ask the numbers but um faster for sure than that 15-year mortgage

and that's going to give you more cash to go and invest other places not just retirement i mean you guys can open up mutual funds you can invest in real estate you guys are going to be you're going to be totally fine i mean if you're 65 with no savings no retirement this is a different conversation but you guys are in a great spot and i understand

the feeling of still pausing retirement feels like oh but as much cash as you can put towards and get hit that 20 you can avoid pmi i mean there's there's a lot of pros here uh in the short term and in the long term you're just not gonna be that affected by it mathematically yeah and it's just it comes down to what's right for you at the right time

this is right for you right now you've decided this is a priority and so it's just a temporary

redirection of your funds and your focus and then you're going to get right back on track all right coming up next is forest in

west virginia hey forest welcome to the show hello oh how can we help yeah so i have a question about um it's

about a debt situation um so me and my wife we i brought in about fifty eight thousand

dollars with student loan debt and uh marriage and she brought in about sixteen thousand and i just got a job as a teacher and and she's an engineer so it was looking pretty good as far as paying off the debt but she's wanting to stay home with our with our son now so i was wanting to know is there any way that we can really make this possible anytime soon or

this is something we're gonna have to power through how much are you guys making a year together and then how much would you make if she stopped working about a hundred grand um but together we are okay but we stopped working it'd be about 35 000

about about 49 000 because i'm a youth pastor too and they pay me a stipend but okay um but uh that'd be about how much we make yep okay um well again we we took a call like this in the last hour and for us this is this is one of these questions that it's it's kind of a value system conversation to have and we talk to a lot of people on

the debt-free stage and they say you know the things we wanted in life we paused including staying at home because we wanted this debt knocked out and the fastest way we could do that was with you know two incomes coming in and just knocking it out really quickly and then and then having no debt you have so much so many options beyond that some people say no

this is something that i feel called to like i'm i'm going to be home and figure out maybe a way to earn some extra money while home and it's going to take us a longer debt-free process but we just know the deeper you sacrifice lifestyle the more income you're bringing in the faster obviously mathematically you're going to be getting out of debt what's the age of your do

you have one child or how many kids you have i have one he's 15 months old 15 months okay yeah i i agree and i know that some

of the things that go into that decision are the ages of kids because some people think oh well when my kids are in school like i don't mind going back to work at all i just want to be home in these you know young years and these are all things you guys should talk about so it's it's kind of a more extreme example of where someone says oh should

i cut out you know all television all cable all everything to get out of debt or am i going to keep my cell phone and maybe it takes me a little bit longer so there's a there's a range in there of how gazelle intense you guys want to get and what other things that affect like like how old your son is and whether or not you want to be home

you will get a debt faster obviously with two incomes the thing that i like to do for us and this is something that you guys can have this conversation is i don't like two bad options like oh i'm gonna work full time and not feel like i don't get to see my kids or i'm going to be in debt forever what is is there a third or fourth or fifth option where she's working from home or starting a side business or doing a virtual assistant where maybe there's a happy medium

and you just look at other options to consider as you as you plan your next step that's great yep looking at all different options yeah it doesn't have to be a or b right there's other things out there for sure it's a great question for us thanks for calling in this is the ramsay show [Music]

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welcome back to the ramsay show i am rachel cruz and with me hosting today christy wright and we are taking your calls at triple eight eight two five five two two five all right up next from canada ontario

gazette is with us hey welcome to the show hey guys uh rachel christie thanks for taking my call absolutely how can we help uh so my wife and i finally got married back in september and we are expecting a child in february

yeah congratulations amazing thank you thank you very much and so right now we've been saving up some uh

we have some money and savings and we're

driving a houthi we just have one car um and i kind of feel like it's coming to the end of its life i got it it has a

couple problems uh you know check engine light 300 000 kilometers um i've got it checked out they weren't 100 able to tell me what was wrong with it so i'm going to get a second check done on it but essentially you know i'm just wondering when would be a good time to up you know move up in vehicle we have about 12 000 saved up right now

but since we got married i also took on

some of her debt so went from baby step three back to two and uh we have about 35 000 in student loans that there and that's about it

um so when it comes to the car situation and considering where you guys are in the baby steps i mean obviously you're gonna be paying cash for the next car um and the baby comes in february you

said you guys yeah um so what what do you think you could sell it for have you kelly blue book did all the the current car you have um yeah i mean with the with the you know the kind of work that it needs no more than like five or six hundred dollars probably okay okay so it really is a hooptie is what we say okay it is a 2003 honda element nice okay hey

that's pretty good it's lasted lasted a good bit yeah i like it i like it it has it's just it has a really bad like vibrating problem right now at like highway speeds as well as a transmission solenoid i think it was like it's got a few problems well my rule of thumb always again with cars is this is something that gets you to point a to point b and in this situation you want something obviously reliable but it is amazing to me how many five six

thousand dollar cars are out there that are great cars that

that will last and are reliable and can get you through this so so i don't want you when you do replace the car um obviously to buy anything crazy expensive this again needs to get you to point a to point b um and so it's you're not gonna be spending a ton and i would take that 12 grand i mean maybe take 5 000 of it go buy honda

civic i always use honda i don't know why they go forever i do i know a honda toyota or something something that just goes i like the hondas yeah the hondas

are pretty good toyotas they just they have longevity i was looking at a crv at around hopefully i don't know five grand was a bit too much but they seemed like whenever i seem to find one it just seems to sell like right away so is it something i should maybe pull the trigger on if i see a good deal on or just wait i was hoping to get into a new car by

the time the baby comes around yeah i mean i would say at this point i mean if your car's worth 500 and you still have to do maintenance on all of it i mean it's inevitable you're gonna have to get a new car soon so yeah so yeah if there is something and again you guys talk it out see what you're comfortable with and then i i really want

you guys to lay out the rest of this money because um because you're gonna be able to knock out some of this thirty five thousand dollars with your savings keeping that thousand dollar savings account but i i want you guys still focused on getting this out i know you know you're you're in a fun new season you're newly married baby on the way all of it but getting

this 35 000 that needs to be the biggest priority and so the club

yeah we're on a budget uh you know we have both read um it is dave ramsey's

complete guide to money um which you know people found super helpful my boss gifted it to me so we're on a monthly budget um i guess the size question is when would be a good time to sort of i know you guys say you know to pause when we're expecting uh or just emergencies in general so when would be a good time to sort of take what

we have saved up and just start tackling the debt again um that's a great point i totally forgot about that i'm obviously in the third hour the show yes yeah you guys don't need to be that's right you need to be yes saving you're doing exactly right and when the baby comes you guys are home from the hospital mom's good baby's good that's when you go and take

the rest of that cash yes and pay it off you're exactly right pausing baby step two while you're expecting um is what we recommend so i would i would continue to do that yeah and you're gonna get a position to take about half of that get you a better car that's going to give you peace of mind when the baby's here and then keep saving between now

and then and then take that and put everything other than a thousand dollars at that debt and you'll just keep tracking that's right great job all right up next we have tony in fort lauderdale hey tony welcome to the show

hey can you hear me yes we can what's going on hey well it's really cool to be talking to both of you i really like the podcast um and thanks for taking my call thank you um to be brief i i would say that i started this whole money makeover like two years ago i've been trying to do the dave ramsey plan and um you know continue on that route

but you know obviously i've made mistakes down the road but in the last couple months um you know me and my girlfriend that we had been dating and living together for six years she decided to kind of leave break up whatever you want to call it so we're going through a transition right now so my two questions are um i don't know if you guys have any great advice or like any best places to recommend selling an engagement ring um

so i bought one for like 5400 like in 2019 i just haven't presented it just because you know i just never really saw an opportunity and then this came up obviously yeah um and then the second

question is like going through a transition like you know leaving your current home and then um you know starting a new rent by yourself is that a time to like stop the baby steps temporarily and like put a little bit more into savings to try to like re-um you know discover your new bills

well how are you doing tony i mean you you broke up with a long-term girlfriend that you had a ring for for a few years yeah no i mean it's definitely really sad um but luckily you know i've got a good group of friends and stuff and you know i don't necessarily know if there's like you know something on her end that she's not telling me like mental health or drugs that has to do with why she's reporting

but like you know so it's not like i've got like any great answer for why we broke up um but like you know mentally i'm you know i've read a codependent no more and you know so i'm trying to just uh stay positive yep i'm sorry you're going through that yeah that's that's hard um as far as selling the ring somewhere specific there's there are you know used yeah jewelry stores

i mean there are places that do that i don't know if i know somewhere specific in fort lauderdale i don't know if you know no i think you just do a little bit of research i mean it's just going to take some asking around going you could literally go to jewelry stores um i mean you could sell it yourself like you know like we say private party with a car yourself um

you could do that on craigslist facebook marketplace i mean if you do you have debt yes um yeah i do i have uh i can list it

out if you guys want just how much total

uh total is twelve twelve hundred twelve thousand seven hundred on a personal loan ninety four hundred on a car and then another four thousand on ammo okay that cree the reason i asked is because that creates a little bit more urgency if you didn't have debt i'd be like well you can kind of hang on to this ring until you really find a good price for it that

you feel good about selling it for um it's a little bit more urgent with this debt because you could take the money that you're going to get from it and put it on that debt but yeah i think i think as far as selling it where to sell it you literally treat it like as if we were you're going to make a big purchase and you're going to ask around who can

you get the most you know where can you get the most money for it do a little bit of digging whether that's um you know private party through facebook marketplace craigslist whatever if there's a jewelry site like a consignment jewelry site um and asking some jewelry stores just asking around a little bit i think we'll tell you how to go about that one yeah and then i would not stop

the baby steps tony i mean at this point i would still continue on don't go purchase a home if you're moving out of your place rent for a little bit and start working on tackling this debt but with money from that ring and everything should help you in it so i'm sorry tony you're going through that but i appreciate appreciate your call this is the ramsay show

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welcome back america i am rachel cruz and with me co-hosting today is christy

wright and we have some fun things kind of going on here at ramsey solutions and um

and and some stuff because it's been a hard a hard 18 months 24 months yeah for

a lot of people well and the whole heart behind this show is to help you guys get control of your money and the good news is this show is a great way for you to have that ongoing inspiration and encouragement hear the stories of people hear the advice that maybe you have a similar question but the reality is we also have a lot of tools that help

you put this into practice and i know that the last year and a half has been really hard i know a lot of you have experienced a ton of stress a ton of worry a ton of wondering what's going to happen next and man the unknown is just

so overwhelming it's just the fear of not knowing what's gonna happen you've probably felt that with your money you felt tired stuck stretched too thin we've all been there but it doesn't have to be that way you just need a plan because a plan gives you the confidence that you need even when everything else seems out of control and that plan that we have created that is proven that

we have used to teach people to get out of debt and build wealth is called financial peace university this class will teach you everything you need to know to save money pay off debt and build wealth for the future you can stream the lessons on your own or you can get support by going through the class with other people then here's what you'll do you'll put that plan into action with

the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app it actually syncs your bank to your budget and you can easily track your spending and see where your money goes you get all this with a ramsey plus membership this is why we talk about ramsay plus it is our class that teaches you what to do with your money and our budgeting tool that helps you put it into practice

and live this out every single day you don't have to stay exhausted and overwhelmed you can win with money to start your free trial of ramsey plus text trial to 33789 that's trial two three three seven eight nine give it a try for free practice this budgeting thing watch some of the lessons and watch how you instantly

reduce the stress you reduce the overwhelm because you have a plan you have the tools and you know what you need to do to get control of your money that's trial to 33789

trial to 33789 to start your free trial of ramsey plus take the class and get the budgeting app yep and a lot of people that that call in to do their debt free screen they there's something that has helped them listening to the show helps a lot of them say financial peace university and getting more content and more knowledge on how to apply it talking with friends

and having community around you i mean there's so many aspects to this journey and ramsay plus gives you so many of those tools right there so it is it's such a it's such a helpful thing and again financial peace university it's it's our flagship program that has helped literally millions of people get educated like this is it's all it's mind-boggling to me i've done this you know i've been in

this for 12 years now but still i'm like you can graduate from college and you don't have a club you you haven't been you haven't gone through a class necessarily on the basics of budgeting and insurance and emergency funds and the difference between money market accounts and mutual funds like the the basics of personal finance the class that you need it is financial peace university you don't always get

it in an educational setting even though we have foundations and personal finance our curriculum in high schools all over america but man this is like the class that everyone needs and the reason we put everything that we do into plan format is because when you can see it you can do it so we don't just give you a bunch of scattered information a bunch of um disconnected pieces of

the puzzle we actually show you step by step and you will find that in any book that we write any book that we publish any product that we create any course that we create it's in a plan format it is going to be a step-by-step plan so that you know what steps to take because truly when you can see it you can do it all right up

next is bob in west palm

beach florida hey bob welcome to the show hey christy rachel how are you doing we're doing great how can we help yeah so i have one question my question for you today is um i graduated as an engineer this past summer and i am extremely passionate about fishing so i've developed an idea for a fishing backpack i want to try to manufacture but it's pretty expensive the whole process of um manufacturing

you know you need to order a certain minimum of units so i project more or less it would be um around 10 to 15 000 which

seems a lot to me so i'm pretty hesitant

on it because i like at the end of the day i just don't know if it'll do well in the market okay you're cutting out a little bit bob what are you manufacturing i'd miss the actual thing you're manufacturing yeah a fishing backpack a fishing backpack yeah okay so when you sorry i've got some follow-up here really quickly when you talk about there's a minimum order typically there's a minimum order for a price break

but you could order small batch orders it's just gonna be much more expensive per unit is that the case in your situation or you're saying they will not manufacture it for less than whatever this this minimum is you're saying yeah because it's a unique design they don't want to go through trouble i guess to manufacture a small amount they said that the minimum for them would be 500

and i've contacted a few others and more or less that is the minimum amount

okay do you have any past experience bob was selling this type of backpack like do you do you have any track record of it no past experience whatsoever yeah do you have anyone to sell it to bob do you have an audience do you have a blog do you have a fishing community that you hang out with that you have uh qualified people that would want this backpack

i do not all right these are some red flags for me bob if you had an audience like let's say that you had a podcast you had a blog you had a fishing community you teach phishing classes some people that would be interested in this product then i would say you could you could put the money into it if you have it okay we're only going to cash flow

this i don't want you to take out any debt but you could even do it on pre-order like you could pre-sell these take the payment and then use some of that cash to fund it let's say that you pre-sell them you know for two months and you at least get a a good chunk of cash and those release

you know on whatever date you you deem that they're going to release the fact that you don't have anyone to sell it to is the biggest concern to me because it doesn't matter if you create the best product in the world if you don't have an audience or write the best book in the world if you don't have audience then no one's going to buy it and

so what i would encourage you to do that is more concerning to me than just the money i would encourage you to work on the marketing of it to work on building the audience creating the demand around it getting yourself in these spaces um to generate interest and maybe

maybe for you it looks like you're going to create um uh you know an ebook a download something to start building an email list of people that are interested in fishing that are interested in this thing that you're going to create a product around but you just start to generate some demand and brand yourself as an expert in the space or a person that provides content and solutions in

this space then maybe in a year maybe in a year i'm not saying you can't do it but right now you're going to have 500 backpacks on your hand and it's not because the idea is not awesome it's just because you don't have people to sell it to you um if you'll stay on the line bob i would love to have kelly send you a copy of my book business boutique

i know it says a woman's guide for making money doing what she loves but the business principles are proven whether you're a male or female it doesn't really matter but i talk about getting your market i talk about marketing and building your market building the demand for this thing and so that would be a great resource for you to start to think about how you're going to get into

the spaces where the people are that would want this thing and then go create it when you have people to sell it to if you've got the cash i think that you can sell 500 of these i just think you need the people there in order to be able to do that bob i'm just curious what do you do for a living how did you get into creating

and inventing this fishing backpack yeah so i i'm an engineer by trade so it's very natural for me to just create

stuff again and a follow-up question um

well when you're doing like when you're making a company like this and yourself financing this is there a percentage of your net worth that would be considered too risky to put into it for example i have 60 000 saved up over my lifetime so would it be feasible or would it be too risky for me to put five thousand ten thousand into this company or any other company that

i might want no you can that's not too risky you just need a proven business plan that you're gonna be able to make it back because just because you have it it's easy to lose it because you're like oh i've got it i still want your business plans showing that you can make that back check out one more thing bob i've never used it but i've heard of people that have startup labs startuplabs.com it's where

you can start to generate interest around your idea try that i've heard someone else use that i don't know anything about it but that could be another resource for you that's great this is the ramsay show

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so

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the lord himself goes before you and will be with you he will never leave you nor forsake you do not be afraid do not

be discouraged deuteronomy 31 8. it's never too late to

be what you might have been george eliot rachel you got some exciting news you have a new color of your walls

so fun so the rachel cruz wallet has um it's been a fun project for me to to to do and to finally have people actually buy and use because it's a year have you had it out a year yeah over and it is it's it's everything we talk about when it comes to because i love talking about budgeting i love talking about how um living this plan doesn't mean

you can't enjoy life or have a great life that was always kind of my assumption i feel like as a free spirit as a spender i'd hear the word budget and it was like oh well that means you can't go shopping you can't go on vacation you can't have any fun and i was like god people on budgets are terrible people like that is not a fun life

but really truly living this out especially after once i got married and realizing no a budget really does give you this freedom it gives you this peace of mind because you have a plan you know what's going on never once are you okay i went to target today here's a great example and our our neighborhood we'll do these like little boob baskets i don't know if y'all haven't you've been booed have

you heard of this no you so you like do a basket with just some treats and stuff and you like don't know who it's from but you go to your front door and there's a little basket it says you've been boots then you've got to go is this for halloween or just for house no for help yeah yeah yeah around halloween so guys i go to target

and i was like okay and i looked in our little miscellaneous category on every dollar and i was like perfect i know how much we have left i mean like i spent all that on this little blue basket but i'm like i can go down the target aisle you know and just have the girls pick out some stuff and i'm like that's great i'm not sitting there being like

this is a waste of money is this so good you know and you're second guessing everything you can enjoy life right but you have a plan and so the wallet has a built-in envelope system because when you're starting budgeting if you if you are early on in this process we recommend cashing out a few categories just to have cash because you end up not only spending less

when you spend with cash studies have proven that but also it's just this built-in accountability you know how much you have in each category and it just gives you this extra sense of control well people use paper envelopes and all that which is fine but i was like this can be cute this could be beautiful and we can have a really great wallet and us ladies out

there who have a lot of stuff and so i created the wallet the rachel cruz wallet and so there's holder you know there's tons of card holders for memberships or debit cards you have and then and then these slots for your cash and so we came out with a black and camel version that have colors that have sold tremendously well and then came out with a metallic blush for just a limited time that sold out in like

i think two weeks 14 days and so we have launched this week the third uh color that will be where you can consistently buy it's not for a limited time uh but it's the classic brown yeah so that is out and yeah perfect christmas gift and and that's what's fun because we were just talking about this earlier but there's all kinds of shipping weirdness going on in

the country and um yeah you can get your christmas gifts early i've i've done most of my christmas shopping already because i was so scared of the shipping issues and so i just even just a couple days ago hit it and all the spots in the you know the kids can't find um but if you want to get this as a gift for someone someone that is a huge fan someone that's on

the ramsay plan um this is a great gift it's it's in the box the presentation is beautiful um but that's true for anything um in our store at rmc solutions.com if you want to get some of the book if you want to get um uh the goal planner my 2022 goal planner is out if you want to get them ken's new book all of these things are available to

you in the ramsey solutions store and i would just encourage you to shop early especially for things that could sell out my goal planner sells out every year um you know i don't know what the inventory is like on the wallet but go ahead and get it and you don't worry about shipping you don't have to worry about stressing out about that and you've got it for christmas it's a great gift

and it's a good reminder it's 10 weeks to christmas you guys crazy is that not nice it's almost the end of october so pl plan this you guys look at

christmas is always the holiday that people we overspend people go into deep debt for and it is because we're not planning so we're giving you lots of heads up lots of heads up uh on being

able to plan for things um especially around the holidays and yes i turned on the news too and all the shipping cargo that's just sitting there i'm like oh god i got stressed just seeing the picture i was like oh my gosh so it's crazy all right up next is josh

from indianapolis hey josh welcome to the show hi i'm so excited to talk to you too absolutely how can we help well i'm getting married this weekend congratulations wow yay thanks and we are also moving um in two months um

so we we are unsure of what um our emergency fund should look like or what our moving costs uh we kind of we have a mover already kind of established but we won't be employed uh when we get where we're going um so we're we're just kind of i'm i'm i like to i don't know i don't know where we should be okay what's the story i feel like there's more to

this story you're getting married why are you moving what what where where are you moving to my we're actually moving from um new york to indianapolis

um and um yeah so we have a fully funded emergency fund we don't have any debt we're we're investing awesome but some of that a lot of that makes me nervous um because we won't we don't have jobs yet um but

you know we both have skill sets that i think will will get jobs quickly what's in indianapolis josh just curious family yes family okay cool and if you're in new york it's probably a lesser uh expenses when it comes to the living yeah yeah and it's politically oppressive yeah fair and there's a great uh this is a great time to get it i mean everybody's hiring so you're yeah i'm not worried about

you being able to get a job when you get there and it sounds like you'll have put yourself in a really great position financially already yeah be a debt-free and emergency fund i would say just be just be aware of it i mean even even though i know you guys have the movers it's in two months so maybe if you haven't already maybe you did price out a couple of movers

and just be aware and and i would not at this point buy anything right now in indianapolis not because of the market or anything just because of you guys are newly married you're going to a new city you've just coming off of living in new york and it's like okay just take a breather um but this emerges yeah she's never lived in indianapolis so i think that's that's what our plan was as well just kind of get a sense for

the neighborhoods but i should also mention i'm going to grad school starting in january too but it's it's flexible it's online and

but i'll be working i'll be trying to trying to work full-time so yeah that kind of it also it just adds to the concern like being married moving and a new lifestyle

or of going back to studying and workings too so it's yeah it's a lot and it seems like you're aware of it you know and and you'll plan for that the other thing i would say is you can start looking for jobs now i think if you have if you had a job lined up by the time you got there in the next couple months that would give you peace of mind you're not starting from scratch when you get there start looking now and it's very normal to do zoom interviews or they may fly you in for further interviews we do that here as a company when we're recruiting people or talking to people from out of state so you don't have to wait till you get there to start looking that may relieve some of your stress of feeling like oh my gosh i'm moving and this and this and this if you had a job lined up or your wife did that could just help alleviate that but it sounds like you know what you're in for i would just just like rachel said reduce stress in the areas that you can so not buying a house will reduce stress trying to line up a job starting now will reduce the stress there are there are some variables in this that you can control to just not eliminate it but reduce the stress of the whole situation yeah how old are you guys josh i'm just curious 31 and 32.

later in life i mean both have pros and cons right there's pros and cons getting married young and later but you guys do have two established lives that you're going to be coming in and kind of merging and again pros and cons to that but um but i think that there's some some great there's there's a level of stability there because you guys kind of know who

you are you know even on a logistical level the careers you have your passions where you're going all of that so i think that's that gives you some kind of foundation there for sure yeah you're right because there's a there's a hard part of getting married later because you're you're kind of established yeah yeah exactly i mean there's a lot there's a hey i have my life

and when you're 21 you're like i don't know we'll just figure it out together right that's right yeah that's right that's all of it it's all of it but the emergency fund josh that's why that's why we teach that is for moments like this even though i know it's not a quote-unquote emergency but you have savings there lined up if you need it well christy this was fun today that's great

i love it love hanging out with you and thank you guys out there for calling in and listening in uh hopefully this show helped you i want to thank producer ben hill and associate producer kelly daniel and again you america thank you so much this is the ramsay show

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this is james childs producer of the ramsay show you can listen to all our shows with the ramsay network app on your smartphone browse by topic or even sync clips to your friends download the ramsay network app in your favorite app store today [Music]

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## 212. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 25, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm christy wright author of the new book take back your time the guilt-free guide to life balance and i'm joined today by my good friend fellow ramsay personality dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five

if you have a call about money if you have a question about relationships of course if you have a question about starting a business y'all know i love talking about that we are just a week out of our business boutique event that we had last week which was awesome john deloney rocked it on stage was that so fun for you by the way that was the most fun man they're a great crowd incredible crowd yeah okay

so you can tell me the psychology of this but here's what's fascinating about that specific audience because it is 99 women 99.8 but yeah okay thank you uh there is

something about the safety of that they feel very safe to be more expressive they laugh they have so much fun you set that up because i went to that event early okay i heard about this quote-unquote vibe are you are you going to tell the story of what what happened backstage yes um i was scouting it out because i don't normally talk to that crew and um although on my show it's that's that's

the the demographic but i'm usually speaking to business owners and and rough and tumble folks and so i went into that vibe and what you created was a room of 14 or 1500

terrified i'm not here by myself and you

systematically interjected safety you interjected hey

you're gonna have to just let that go because that's not how we're gonna roll in here and then yeah i roll up and i just walked backstage and there was like dancing going on and i thought what is happening this is if i have to dance tomorrow in spandex and heal i'm not gonna be able to do this and anyway but what you did though and that's

so strategic was you made everybody say dude you gotta put all of your am i standing right am i the right am i the right fit or the right that's all got to go because we're about to dance we're recording the whole thing right it was awesome yeah well it was it was really cool there's a there's a method to my madness people may not see it

first glance but we had a you know there's a girl on our woman on our team that is an nfl cheerleader and um she choreographed this dance because it's a trend on on instagram reels and tic toc to to make up dances and dance to it and it wasn't about the dance you know that right like it wasn't about the dance at all it was about she's going to come out

she does this dance they all think they're observing they all think we're being entertained by this professional dancer and then courtney turns to them and says you're going to do that and they're like no i'm not right like they immediately think no i'm not i can't i'm not a dancer these are all the excuses which is basically a an analogy for life and business i can't i can't

i can't they're different i'm not smart enough not business minded don't have a business background and then they break it down into steps dance steps four counts break it down step by step they do it again and again and again and before you know it that whole crowd of almost 2 000 women are doing the dance and it was about what you can do when you get outside your comfort zone what

you can do when you break something down into steps how you you thought 20 minutes ago you could do that now you're doing it that's the message of it and there's also a few and by the way you're gonna have fun while i'm teaching you this message there was a few brave souls who went first yeah that inspired everybody yeah because everyone's looking around and there's a few rock stars who may have been

there a few times that thought oh here we go i'm all in right and they made it okay for everybody else yeah and that just reminded me when i went home like man you got hard stuff in your neighborhood and your community go first just go first yeah awesome it was a lot of fun well you did such a great job and i know you're you're talk early connected with people there's such a power in digging into

the issues behind the issues and you guys uh experience this when you watch the ramsey show a lot of times you call in and it might just be a money question like how much am i supposed to save it might be you know kind of surface level in that sense and we'll give you the practical financial steps you can take to get to where you want to be

and get out of debt and build wealth or it might be a deeper issue i can't tell you how many times i've you know we've taken calls on the show and it's like this is actually not a money call at all it's not a money it's not a money question it's a relationship question or it's a you know some other type of question so if you have a call for dr john deloney or myself

we are here for you all day today triple eight eight two five five two two five we're going to kick this off and go to indianapolis with rebecca hey rebecca how are you good how are you good how can john and i help today can you hear me yeah yeah you're great what's going on um so i graduated in 2019 with a hundred

thousand dollars in debt 36 of that was my name and the rest was in my dad's name as a consolidated parent plus one um and then he wants me to pay it back but i'm not sure what to do here because when i went to college i actually had a full ride to one school but my parents wanted me to go to the same school that they did

i didn't have money for school and my dad just said we'd figure it out with loans and that he would sign all the paperwork and do all the details and he would just call me every semester to fill out the paperwork and get it signed and we would figure out later how to pay it back he said initially that i would pay for textbooks and tuition and that

he would take care of the grooming whether that was in the dorm or renting an apartment um but you know i found out later that he used the rent um to pay for the apartment with the parent plus lens so when i graduated he said that i'd pay two

thirds of the seventy three thousand dollar parent plus loan but now he's changing the turn to half and half and now it's kind of just we'll both work towards it until we get it paid off but he hasn't paid a penny throughout this whole entire interest rate deferment and i've been kicking my butt off to get my own loans paid off so good for you so you you guys fell prey to

the three worst words in the english language which is figured out or four we'll figure it out um which is mean let's just punt this hard decision way down the road and it just gets more complex and more messy the further along we go um i i'm torn on this christy so hop in here i part of me says your original agreement was you got into a school mom

and dad say we don't want you to go there once you go to our school we'll cover it we'll take care of it we'll figure it out in the road but we're going to take care of this and then you found out take care of it man they took out a loan in your name and now you're going to be on the hook for it um the other part of me says

i mean you're i mean your name's on the loan at the end of the day you're gonna lose your dad over this deal and you may end up having to pay this back anyway um so my off top my head christy i'd love to hear what you say my off top my head i'd love you guys to sit down you sit down with a spreadsheet or a piece of paper

and a pen across the table from your dad and said the days of we'll just figure it out are over here is the dollar amount that i slash we owe here's what you told me and we need to come away from this with a plan and we're both going to sign this piece of paper and this is going to be hard for you but you are having to be

the adult because you're being dragged around by a child masquerading as an adult does that make sense yeah well so the 36 000 alone is just in

my name and then he has 73 000 that is just his name is that 73 000 okay just

in the parent plus you're right so is that 73 was it school expenses only

or did he use that for other things i am not sure so when i calculated my room and board and tuition and everything there's an extra 25 000 that i can't account for and i'm not sure what it's for and he doesn't like to talk about it yeah there's a lot of unknowns here rebecca the the agreement up front was unknown the agreement now is unknown it's a moving target

you feel like you're not gonna be able to hit the target and you can't because it's moving i completely agree with john you sit down have a conversation come up with a new agreement you both agree on and then whatever that is even if it's that you pay all of it you'll feel peace just knowing what you're working toward here because right now it's a moving target sit down

and have a conversation nail down the terms and i think you'll feel better whatever that is this is the ramsey show

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still on baby step number one huh how'd you guess with health care costs rising learn how christian healthcare ministries can help you make the most out of your budget visit ch chministries.org budget don't

worry it's worth it

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i'm christy wright joining me today is my good friend dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five just before the break we were talking about how a lot of the calls that we get on the ramsey show come in as a money call or a money decision and often it's it's really something more than that we peel away

the layers and it's either a relationship question or a communication question something else going on and i think the the call that we were just talking to you rebecca in indianapolis even before the break was it was an example of that because i've seen this too john ian you could apply this to anything in life you could apply to business or whatever it's like well we didn't really have a clear agreement up front or

we didn't really have a clear plan up front and then we both feel like we've missed the mark on the plan but it's because there was no plan right and then people are hurt there's actual financial financial consequences and uh and man that's such an example of that because now it's this ambiguous we'll figure it out and then it's not getting figured out and then dad's gonna like

so in that last call um there was about a hundred thousand dollars of of student loans 75

about 70 grand that was a was a parent plus loan 30 grand of it was um her student loans and at the beginning dad said hey you know what i'm going to take care of this we'll help you out here and then three

four five years later it's all right well you went to college and we got you through it now you're going to pay the rest of this back and then this young woman who's graduating saying whoa i feel like the terms were switched oh and by the way i did the math and there's 25 000 or so extra dollars here and that's something christy that happens a lot as people get

these student loans they get big checks that may cover all their tuition all their own board and there's an extra 4 5 7 five thousand dollars left it takes a special level of discipline to have that much money and not spend it on i need a house repair or a car repair i remember i had a check like that and my transmission fell out and i just used student loan to pay for that

and i didn't think about the fact that it's gonna i'm gonna end up paying 18 times for that transmission right and so don't

ever go into a financial arrangement with anybody without sitting down having the hard conversation up front because my promises that hard conversation becomes way harder later and the relationship is the casualty on the back end so in that in that example with rebecca so you were saying you know so she was saying just her name is on around 30 000 something like that and then heard just her dad's name is on

this other part so um legally she can walk away so okay dude i'm paying my thirty six thousand i'm out yeah and then what he's gonna say is my ungrateful right daughter whatever right but but don't you think that there's a there's a um it's reasonable to say if she's going to pay part of the parent plus to only pay the part that she can account for absolutely that

she can't account for i didn't use this i don't know what you put on it but i'm not paying for this mysterious thousand and that i didn't use that's the problem is now you're waiting and now what dad's gonna say is are you telling me that i ripped my daughter off twenty five thousand you call me a liar call me a cheat like well you know at that point speak to me from from your perspective at that point isn't that a boundaries issue of like i'm going to cover my basis

and do what i said i would like to do which is boundaries you that all that manipulation is on you if you don't have boundaries you will at some point and they will either be imposed on you or they will be built out of self-defense self-preservation not out of mutual

out of i get to do this it becomes i have to do this and you never want to build boundaries out if i have to because that's always protecting yourself from someone that you should be in close relationship like your dad right that'll that'll preach john you're going to have boundaries regardless i get to from a healthy perspective we all agree on or i have to out of self-preservation

i can have boundaries about what i eat every day or at some point i'll be in a hospital bed and the physician right there they will be imposed on me i can treat my wife this way this way or i will get a boundary you will not have it right so you will get boundaries man what you want to do is set them as early as possible

and towards what you want not what you have to respond to good man that's really good that's powerful all right we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five we're gonna go to knoxville tennessee with jesse hey jesse how are you pretty good how are you guys good what's going on well um my wife and i just moved to knoxville a couple days ago a few weeks ago

we previewed the apartment we would be moving into and it looked immaculate and on move-in day it was an absolute mess i mean maintenance was still pulling somebody else's stuff out it was a wreck i talked to the manager of the place and uh and basically said fix it and she put us in the town home on the property which is awesome but the townhome still has a whole host of issues

and i don't really know how to approach it um okay when you said you toured it it was immaculate you toured like the the model i'm guessing okay and then this one is the real one which has people's stuff in it how long is your lease jesse uh 13 months so you're in this one for a minute um i i know that the these tenant

laws are sometimes um state specific um oftentimes city specific i can tell you an experience i had in texas where my wife and i moved into our first apartment it was a disaster there was bugs everywhere it was a wreck it wasn't taken care of and ultimately they said go get a lawyer and um they called my bluff and it would have cost me x amount of dollars to fight

this thing and get and drag it out and we only had six months left and so ultimately we wrote it out and then left um but really you've got a legal obligation what i would recommend is that you send stuff in writing because they do have some legal responsibilities if you write down here are the things that are not finished then you can begin to build a case

so if this is a pattern of behavior if the um things are messy turns into things that are unsafe or unsanitary you will have a pattern of in writing

not just hey i called over on this day and if you did call document that phone call but just open up a file and this is super annoying and i'll tell you this for you and your spouse um this can be a thing you'll do together that brings you closer together or this can become a fist fight that divides you don't let the second happen be intentional about

it and send registered letters send emails with read receipts on them and if you do have a conversation make sure you document that in a special journal there and so if it does get messy if you do decide you know what i'm not paying this for another 11 months or 10 months um you can call an attorney and see if they can get you out of that lease yeah

the one the one piece of this that is encouraging to me in the in the context of your story and your question jesse is that they seem somewhat like they're willing to make it right are they are they like the fact that they put you in a town home and they're trying to fix it are they trying are they trying or are they just kind of like yeah

this is it deal with it but i mean it's hard to tell because we moved in on thursday and then friday was the first day where we really had a good look at the town home but all of our stuff was already here we tested out some of the appliances and they only kind of work

they were closed on the weekend otherwise i would have recorded a bunch of stuff and we just got the last of our stuff from our old place today that took most of the day so i mean aside from me saying fix it or i'm going to take you to court and then for putting this in the town home they really haven't done it again they swapped out one uh electrical socket

you know what they swapped that one socket gotcha and it may be something that you ask them in writing obviously if i go ahead and fix these things can i deduct the cost of these from my rent and if it's a matter

of i need to order a new dishwasher i need to change these plugs out et cetera um we can deduct these out from the rim but ultimately it's going to be on you to keep immaculate records communicate in writing and don't let this steal your

um character don't stoop down to their level don't act like a an immature brat

um continue to be professional and respectable don't make big threats i'm gonna do take care of your business and if they don't take care of their professional responsibility what they agree to in the lease then you go about your options which are really i mean getting a lawyer yeah and i think it it it stinks because in situations like this jesse it's one of the things where

you just have to figure out which is the which version of hard do you want to deal with do you want the version of hard living in a place that the appliances kind of work or the version of hardware you're trying to take an apartment complex to court and the legal side both are hard yeah you just choose which one both have a cost you just choose which which costs that

you want to take and i'm sorry and you're in this position no one likes to feel misled and um and i'm just sorry yeah that really stinks i do think that if you continue to talk to them given your options um i would try to get

as much leverage as you can while maintaining good relationships just because people are going to respond better if you're nice in the process just like john said don't let it chip away at your character where you turn into a jerk you don't want to be a jerk and it's not going to get great results in being a jerk so how can you protect yourself and move forward and in the best way possible with the options you've got i hope that helps good luck to you this is the ramsay show [Music]

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i'm christy wright dr john deloney and i are hosting the ramsay show today for you and we're taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five and with us on the debt free stage are don

and joanne hey guys welcome hi so i'm guessing this is good news for you you are on our debt-free stage that can only mean one thing you are debt-free yep we did it congratulations y'all okay how much debt did you pay off uh over the last 20 years it's been quite a bit since we got started and married and everything but all right we really buckled down the last five years and paid off 500 000.

you want to focus on the five years or you want to focus on the full picture of the 20 years you tell me i can tell you a little bit of the full story but past five years we've buckled down but um we've been married about 34 years and started out with a little bit of nothing you know like most people do my wife stayed home with our three boys

and i worked a lot of hours to kind of make ends meet you know and she babysat and through the years i've kind of done the dave ramsey thing i'm pretty faithfully and we didn't really spend much on vehicles and just got by you know and uh

try to make it better for our kids but last five years i was actually diagnosed with parkinson's when i was 48 so we decided to buckle down and get the house paid off and and uh make it make it easier in case i got sick and couldn't couldn't keep working so wow so you paid off the house and everything this is everything wow we've done everything y'all are amazing would have been a little bit faster but we upgraded our boat and okay we really enjoy that so yeah gotta do what you gotta do what's your household income during this time um in the past five years we went from 150 to about 250.

that jump tell us that story um i changed jobs i work for ford motor company um on assembly line actually and work a lot of hours there and my wife i have my own tax uh accounting practice where dave ramsey elp provides awesome my two sons three of them are here two of them are work for me or my partners yeah so it's a family business and uh

so our income is increased a little bit so that's amazing what a story you guys have had especially over the last five years of just the motivation to do this the focus and intensity tell me a little bit about this specifically the last five years of buckling down or saying we're going to pay it all off so was that 500 000 was that all just the house or was

there other stuff in there um 275 was a house and like i said we upgraded a boat yeah which pretty good sized boat yeah you really upgraded that picture

dave always says boats are a terrible investment but we kind of bought it the right time and then covet hit and it's actually worth more than we paid for it so okay my boat is uh fits about two people in this camouflage there's holes in it it is not that boat yeah godly that's incredible look at that that's where we spend most of our time wow beautiful all right

so tell me what in the last five years especially when you guys got really focused and intense like we're gonna pay off the house in the midst of upgrading the boat and all this that stuff what was the uh what what kept you on track what what you know what did that look like in your marriage in a practical way i probably was the least he was pushing me all our marriage

and i had he'll tell you our mentor was my dad okay and i always i shouldn't say this because he's probably going to hear it but i swore i wouldn't marry anybody like my dad because he was so tight with his money and then same name too yeah same name that's amazing and my dad met him and turned him into himself done loved on thought don was

the best choice ever so and i was the spender and but the last five years i think i probably cut back and i agreed to you know help out a lot more he's worked really really hard and i kind of said okay let's do this take us back to that that i mean your stomach falls through the floor your heart stops beating when they say hey this is

this is your diagnosis this is parkinson's um and then you have to sit down and tell your wife you gotta tell your family like take me back to that moment uh it's pretty scary but we both kind of embraced it and i'm doing doing fine the last five years so um like i said we paid that 275 on the house we had a 15-year loan on it

and paid it off in probably eight years or so wow so we got the house out of the way and then the boat was a little bit and cash flowed our new car recently so just

just kind of buckle down and work a lot of extra hours over time and knock it out wow y'all are amazing the dedication in this face of that diagnosis and the the fear and all that the fact that you guys are buckling down and doing that is incredible who were your biggest cheerleaders on this journey especially this last bit well like joanne said my father-in-law was probably

the biggest influence of course our kids you know they've had to suffer a little bit through the through the years i'm not having much but they're we're here on a trip from kansas city this whole week and we're kind of treating them to this deal too to give them the little bit of fun that would we kind of cut out on when we were younger you know don i'm looking at them

i don't see a lot of suffering going on over there you're missing there uh there's 23 year olds over there in the stroller sleeping so those are our grandkids awesome that's awesome all right so for someone listening right now and they are feeling paying off their house feels impossible and they've got health things that they're struggling with and they just feel down and discouraged speak to them for a second what is what is

the key that gave you guys hope kept you motivated kept you connected to each other talk a little bit about how you stuck with it even though it's hard most people say the budget was the biggest key to keep them on track um i tried to do that like she said she was a bigger bigger spender so she would tell me well i know what i'm spending

i don't really you know need a budget but um i think the biggest thing is just to stay focused and not worry about what other people have um like i've sent a few pictures of vehicles that i drive and drove a 20 year old car for quite a few years and now we can kind of upgrade and get some yeah nicer vehicles john what would you tell somebody who just whether

they got laid off whether they are having relationship issues they lost somebody in the last couple years which we all know somebody who's passed away what would you tell somebody who's wrestling with really hard news um what's their next step like i said just uh have faith and and

keep your head down and buckle down and anything can be anything's possible i've actually got a guy that i work with at ford um he's under 30 and i kind of

influenced him a little bit five years ago and he's actually paid his house off already wow anybody anybody can do it and his wife stays home a lot too so that's incredible that's it for you man y'all are amazing and i'm sure that's just one example of the people that you've inspired and uh right now you're inspiring millions more with your story so thank you for sharing that

and thank you for just uh yeah the testimony of that hard work all right y'all we have got a copy of the legacy journey for you because that is definitely the next stage in your journey and you're already on it with paying off the house which is incredible and we've got a copy of the total money makeover you can give that as a gift to a friend pay

it forward maybe get somebody kick-started on their journey you want to get kyle and andrew and cody up there yeah you want to get the kids up there get them up there that'd be awesome all right we have got don everybody is with kyle andrew and cody y'all look so good from kansas city paid off 500 000 including the house

over 20 years but really buckled down the last five years making 150 000 to

250 000 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two

one

oh my gosh that's so awesome oh now they're kissing what a story i mean especially in the face of that diagnosis and that adversity and feeling you know when you get some news like that i'm sure you just want to get in the fetal position and just give up and they did the exact opposite yeah it's it's it's hard to think of any sort of light at

the end of a tunnel when you get a diagnosis like that that you know come two months come two years come 20 years things are going to be different and really in my experience i've seen two really different approaches and it tends to be one or the other i just throw my hands up and say this is what this is or you see a group of people rally around one

another you've got in-laws and a incredible wife support a wife and say let's just go go ahead and get this done it's kind of like we're talking about earlier the boundaries boundaries just got imposed and they can lean in and say all right this is common let's have no payments when it gets here and by the way let's have as much fun as possible let's make sure that boat is real nice

and we're gonna spend a lot of time out on the water let's not sacrifice both but let's be intentional otherwise this thing's coming in some shape at some point it's coming for us let's plan as far ahead as we can good for you guys yeah amazing amazing too because they buckled down this last five years but that was built on 20 years of following the plan so

it was that much easier to implement these strategies when they'd already been doing them they just did them with more intensity and i love that the free spirit spender is now an account that makes my heart feel good she's my kind of accountant i love it so good all right y'all we'll be back before you know it this is the ramsay show

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i'm kristy wright joining me today is my good friend and fellow ramsay personality dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five and we're going to go to harrisburg pennsylvania with evan hey

evan how are you good how are you guys good what's going on um so yeah i just had a question um my wife and i um she's 36 i'm 34.

we have a one-year-old i left my job

when she was born to be a stay-at-home dad so right now we're in um baby step like

five slash six where we started saving for

for her for college and we have a fully funded emergency fund but we're also have savings on top of that and i'm just wondering what to do with that money should we front load or 529 a little bit more so we just focus on the mortgage and get that paid

off or what will your suggestions be there yeah the interesting thing about baby steps four five and six is that they're all happening at the same time in most cases um sometimes they won't if someone doesn't have kids but in your case you do i remember recently dave was talking about doing the math of what his uh what the 529s would be when his kids went to college backing out of that

and just front loading them and then just leaving him alone so that's always an option for you if you just want to put more in there and let it grow to the amount that that you would need um that's an option and then yeah typically what people do is they just buckle down and with that excess above and beyond their budget that they you know they're enjoying some

and and you know you should enjoy some evan but above and beyond that you you pay off the house early and you know we just had a family on stage that that just paid off their house um as an example that we're seeing that more and more now with people that have been living the baby steps principles um for years and it's starting to to catch up

and pay off so yeah it would really be other than front loading that um college fund which you could do be paying off the house early and then you'd have no payments yeah evan i tell you what i'm doing in my house i got two young ones and i am uh i

am making a calculated gamble that higher ed will look different in 10 years and 15 years after being in it for 20 years it's gonna look different and so i am saving for college appropriately but i'm i'm taking any extra money and paying my house off that feels like more like a a more um present liability to me than what the cost of higher ed might look like in x number of years

let's let's just stay here for a second evan if you've got a second let's just camp here for a second and talk about this this issue with college savings because i know that that's something that a lot of people fear is exactly what you just said and they think i'm putting all this money in this account and it's going to look different what if it's not enough what

if it's too much so what what what are your thoughts on that especially you know with your background being in higher ed what's the best route to kind of go okay we're going to follow the baby steps and at the same time know that it probably will change the way they're structured right now is any sort of education or post-secondary education you can use it for and

so if i wanted to go back and get some more counseling classes or my wife wanted to go get a fill in the blank certificate or just want to do a mid-life career change which i've done just now um that 510 will pay for that right and isn't it something where if your child gets scholarships that you can then give them there's a lot of yeah he wants to yeah

so all that to say is it's it's a great retirement i mean it's a great savings tool and for those especially

for those of us who man if you look over and you've got a pile of money in account that's gonna be hard to let it sit there and grow over this over the course of time at the same time

i personally and again every teacher's owned on this one because you're doing four five and six together but i'm gonna pay my house off which is a present debt that i stare at every month that drives me crazy versus what this thing may be yeah next number of years yeah yeah evan i hope that helps and you make that such a good point too because you've got that you've got

the interest on your mortgage right now that you can knock that out and and you know get not only get it paid off earlier but then you have no payments at all you can do whatever you want to um but i love that reminder because it probably will look different and and you know what the fact that you're asking that question evan shows me that you have a lot of margin yeah

because if you did not have that margin and weren't living on a budget you would not be asking that question so well done you're doing awesome all right let's go to leah and lima ohio hey leah how are you i'm going are you good what's going on

um my husband and i we are 28 and we are

married uh 11 years now um we got two kids who are both in school we have zero debt we have a

debt-free trucking company

we have fully funded emergency fund and we are debating on opening up a restaurant

all right so what's your question for me hooray on all counts yeah first of all way to go you're doing awesome so let's start there if you sell tacos and or burritos you'll make a billion dollars what's next no you'd be sitting on the toilet

okay so yeah what can we do what can we do to help well there is a big huge building which the location would absolutely be perfect because it's literally right off of the interstate there's plenty of parking especially for truck drivers and this building has like

a section in the front which could be the restaurant part the kitchen is in the middle there's like a little tiny bakery type thing on the side with the drive-through window and on the other side of the kitchen is a huge like hall like would be perfect for like wedding venues or wedding receptions or birthday parties or whatever oh leah you're already in love leah has got

the vision leah is already in love oh no and then like in the very back there is like this little office and it would be like perfect for the trucking company like there's like three things right there in a row don't do it i just don't know if we should do it or not if you've got the cash do it tomorrow if you don't don't do it okay

let's let's start with that part of it do you have do you have the money to do this the savings to cash right now our checking company would be able to fund it in cash and we have the deposit and the first month like lease payment upfront in cash right now

yeah yeah okay so you you've got something to work with which is great here's here's a couple things that i would encourage you to do number one i would encourage you to take that big vision that you have and i see it you can see it you can see the people they're getting their coffee you've got the office look you can see it leah i hear it in your voice

you can see it what i'm gonna need you to do is back out of that idea to the babiest version of that idea you can think of is it just the front space is it just the tacos is it just the off like what is the minimum idea that we could start with to prove this concept where is it just a build out of just the front

and you're going to serve some baked goods and you're going to prove that truckers are going to stop at this place and get their okay i want the baby version that's going to be the lowest cost because it's the lowest risk while you prove the concept get some more money in the door to fuel fund all that the expansion of it to then the second part and

the third part and so on i got a head tilt to the wedding venue because i'm not having my wedding where truckers are now it's a it's a restaurant wedding venue truck driver hangout and bakery

stop meets your dream wedding i don't see that that could be a reality show well yeah maybe i still have the vision but let's start with what you know will work which is possibly a restaurant a quick serve food service off the interstate for your target market which happens to be the trucking company that you're already working so i want you to definitely come up with your baby version idea where

you can prove this part two you need you need a real business plan for this what stages are you going to do what things how much is each stage going to cost how are you going to operate it who all the details that are not as fun for visionaries like you and me but they need to happen so think of of the staffing and all of that information um

and then i want you to think through uh even the record-keeping piece of this because when you said the trucking company is going to fund it i just want to make sure that you know when entrepreneurs get into things sometimes that money can get mixed and it becomes a nightmare for taxes and record-keeping so just make sure part of your business plan is getting all of your your accounting in in order for those

the expenses of this chrissy you work with business owners all the time can i tell you my first big head tilt tell me if i'm crazy don't put a penny down on a lease until you have gotten a contract or two in there to tell you how much converting a kitchen and building it and all that because that build out may be six seven hundred thousand dollars

and if you know the cash to do it don't do it well and i'm thinking too like just set up literally a taco stand in the front with no commitment no least nothing prove the concept before you make a commitment that's the idea of the word perfect we do that in relationships and businesses it's never perfect it's never perfect that's a good note to end on all right

i want to thank producer james childs associate producer kelly daniel my co-host dr john deloney and you america this is the ramsay show

[Music] hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermsyshow.com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm christy wright author of the new book take back your time the guilt-free guide to life balance and i'm joined by my good friend dr john deloney and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five

if you have a question about money if you have a question about relationships maybe need some advice you're at a fork in the road having to make a decision you're not sure which decision is right and just want to bounce your ideas off of someone else we're here triple eight eight two five five two two five and we're gonna kick off this hour by going to orlando florida with holly hey holly how are

you hi i'm great i'm so excited how are you doing today good we're excited to talk to you what's going on good good thank you so much um i i am a single mother i'm 40 years old and i have my little miracle baby two-year-old daughter and i am trying to determine right now whether or not i should sell my home to take advantage of this market

and perhaps move in locally with my mother for a year or two even though i know in my heart that probably is not the smartest move it

might be the best and financial decision

um to help secure my future um and i just wanted your advice you know just kind of wanted to bounce a couple ideas off of you and see why it might make sense and might not yeah well well i'm so glad you called first of all um i'll i'll tell you my my gut response and then i want john to talk about this because i'm sure from

the relationship aspect he is much wiser than me i can only speak from my experience and that is that um if i want to have a relationship with my mother i should not live with her and i

love my mother love her love her living in a different house than me most of all so for me what immediately jumps out to me holly is not just that relationship piece that of course i'm looking at it through the lens of my own relationships but um is that real estate typically only goes up anyway and yes the market is hot right now but you're not going to lose money

if you stay in your house your your your house is secure your house is safe yeah i mean your your real estate goes up typically so my thought my gut is no stay you know especially when you said like i think i know like i think that's not a good idea from the relationship aspect you don't need to you don't need to unless you do i mean is

there is there some financial burden that you didn't mention do you have a lot of debt like what's going on with your other finances that makes you feel like you need to sell it to to have that money yeah um i think the biggest um concern is that i am 40 and i only have

about 60 000 so far in retirement i've

been following the baby steps for the past four years cut up my credit cards i paid off 30 000 plus dollars in credit cards over the past four years and i just paid off a 50 000 student loan in september congrats congratulations that's huge thank you um i went back as kind of a non-traditional student earned my mba in 2015 and went from earning around 40 000 a year to now i make about 86 and change

wow you're amazing you are amazing

thank you so i feel like i'm on a really good upward trajectory however now being

a mother there are daycare expenses additional insurance costs things like that so i'm on baby step two but i only

have about three thousand dollars left of attorney's fees and that was um for a child support related case unfortunately that's still an ongoing battle and kind of a variable um but the other the other so that's kind of where i am i feel like i'm in a decent position but i'm a little bit behind in retirement i am eager and anxious to begin um or to resume the college savings fund for my daughter and to get the three and three to six months of um you know security put in

the bank for us um so yeah that's kind

of weird so holly here's been my experience over the last 24 months tell me if this rings true with you at all okay every single media outlet on the planet

i guess except for this show where everybody seems to have kind of a still pulse is rattling every cage they have they're

banging every pot and every pan and every gong and every drum letting you know that you're not okay you're not safe you're not filling the blank you're not enough you should have been oh my gosh

what you just rattled off to us is that you got three thousand dollars you've been busting it both in your academic life in your professional life in your personal life and then ta-da you got a kid and hey let's figure this out we're gonna keep going you are walking what like as dave talks about the tortoise and the hair you're the turtle you're just getting up every day and you're grinding it out you're working hard and the next day you're working hard next day working hard do you have a math issue when it comes to retirement yeah you're 40.

this is the ramsay show

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ken coleman

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i'm kristy wright john deloney and i are taking your calls today

825-5225 if you have a question about money relationships starting a business life balance anything you want to talk about we are here for you we're going to go to new york city new york with pete hey pete how are you how you guys doing good what's going on

i'm the proud owner of a tesla 3 a 2019

tesla 3 and i've noticed that the trade-in values for used cars and in particular tesla's are very high almost as high as what i bought it for and i did a quick uh

research kelly blue book puts my trade in at around uh 49 000. cost of a new tesla three uh

with zero miles on it obviously is about 57k so i was wondering uh should i go for it i have 20 000 miles on the on the car i

have now or uh realizing that i probably won't always get a chance to lock in on such a high trade in or should i just go old school like my dad would say and just drive it into the ground which is what i had planned to do before these uh trading values went haywire what do you guys think okay so i don't want to answer this question in a vacuum outside the context of the rest of your finances so let's talk about how the rest of your finances are doing do you have any debt

just my mortgage okay and you have a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months yep okay cool so i guess the thing that sticks out to me we've got a lot of calls like this and john you jump in on this um the thing that's interesting is people are asking questions should i do this should i sell my house should i trade in my tesla in

this example just because the opportunity is there when really outside of the opportunity or perceived gain you like the car that you have you like the house that you have whatever so i guess is it just purely because you could make some good a good return on it well it's not a good return because i'm actually losing money i'm sorry not a return what i mean is like

the trade the value that you're getting back is more than you would expect to get in this market that's what i mean to say historic historically trade in values for used cars are high and the height is high for tesla threes that i read that that's like the most in demand car maybe i'm wrong but that's just what i read so so you got 20 000 and

then you got 20 000 miles on it yep so you're you're basically paying a 17 dollar is that about right ten thousand dollar what's that what you're gonna turn and go buy another tesla what's the gap it's it's a difference the gap is about nine thousand okay so you're paying if you had a hundred thousand miles on this thing or for a tesla you'd have two or three hundred thousand miles on

it um yep that makes sense it sounds like a lot of headache and you're you're trading nine thousand dollars for for 20 000 miles i mean a 2019 with 20 000 miles in my mind again i drive old cars it feels brand new um no i i agree what about this new tesla so let's let's let's change the the whole math problem here or not the math problem psychology problem what about

this new tesla is more exciting to you than the current one that you have right now honestly like and i think you're kind of getting at like what is the emotional thing driving this if i'm reading your question right and i'm just asking are you good are you excited about the new tesla um you know it's not a whole lot better than the one i have now it's just

you know there's a couple upgrades but but it wouldn't be like a way better car it would be close to parity just just newer uh i guess what i'm really worried about is or not worried but am i going to miss this window where the trade and values are as high as they are and then i'll be kicking myself in five years when i'm trading the car in for

you know fifteen thousand dollars when i said you dummy why didn't you trade it in when when you could have gotten a better deal for it but you're talking about a a two-year difference here man and twenty thousand miles i think i think it's a perception thing yeah i think it's a perceived loss yes it's like this i've gotta jump on this and it's that fear of like what

if i miss out to your point but there's nothing that great about the new car that you want need whatever you like your car and so it's more just it's more the opportunity that seems shiny and i don't think there is a cost to it not just the financial cost but there's also the headache costs and i think it sounds like you and your car you're in a great situation

i don't think it's something you need to do yeah so we we have a there's an incredible book by daniel kahneman called thank you fast thinking slow and one of the things it talks about is we are so hypersensitive to perceived loss even to the point that we will

go after perceived loss at the expense of known gain right so here i the hardest thing for anybody to do right now is to just say i like my house what i i know on paper imaginary

it's worth more nobody's handing me cash yet so it feels like it's worth more or my car or whatever i guess i got to do something now because i have to get this good deal or three years from now i'm gonna be mad i didn't get this great deal not ever asking yourself dude do you like your car and do you like your situation and do you just want to throw nine thousand dollars at a thing that might make

you feel better three or four or five years from now that just seems bonkers yeah i say i mean you're not gonna you're debt free do whatever you want man but if it's me i'm gonna go that's cool yeah i'm glad that my car has got high value i'm gonna keep loving my car and then i'm gonna go about my day yeah yeah and the the thing

i want to highlight is you're in a great position pete the fact that you're even asking this question you've done really well with your finances you're debt-free you're in a great spot but at the same time it doesn't mean we have to do something new just because it's available just because you could get a lot of money for your used car and we again we keep using

this example but we keep getting calls about this should i sell my house because i could get a lot for it it's like well do you want to move no do you need to sell your house no well and our friend kate coleman gets there like hey i just they called me and said would i be interested in this promotion do you want to do that work no no

you want to have those hours no but it pays 30 000 more dollars like think about your life we have this it may never come again or they put me in a position if i don't take this promotion i'm never going to man that's okay the other thing i would add uh pete in your scenario we didn't say this but i want to make sure i say

it the two options you have is not trade in and go to get a good amount um for your car now to have a newer car or drive it into the ground there's like a we could upgrade before you drive into the ground it could just be hey i'm going to drive this for about five years and then your point maybe you trade it in for a little bit less

but by that point you've got so much more savings and you've getting gotten uh great you know great miles out of that car and then you want to get a little bit newer car it doesn't have to be these extremes and when we think in extremes then it makes it feels like it makes the decision so much more emotionally heightened and so much more like oh my gosh

so much on the line you can just you can just do that in like two or three years if you want to but for everybody out there listening wondering should i sell my house or should i sell my car because it's a good moment to do those things that's the wrong question the right question is do you need a new car right do you want to and can

you afford to move into another house and then you look backwards and say okay what's the market for myself my sale here right yeah this is um it doesn't always apply in these scenarios but it makes me think one of the things i've talked about at business boutique last weekend and i've talked about in the context of all of my teaching on life balance which has been such a theme

this fall sometimes we just look at good opportunities and we say should i do that because it's good but a good thing at the wrong time is the wrong thing yeah a good thing at the wrong time will stress you out a good thing at the wrong time well you actually put you in a bad position and so just asking yourself not is this just a good thing is

this the right time for that thing and uh and when you ask yourself that you'll come up with a much better answer whether that's with your finances with your car with your home

with your business don't just ask yourself is this opportunity good is this the right opportunity and is this the right opportunity now and i love how you talked about the even the science behind the perceived loss because that drives so much of our behavior there's a there's an incredible study at where you come into a room and you have 50 one dollar bills and you start laying them down one

after the other and i'm a stranger i sit down and then i call it i say um good you you know you call good i put down three dollars and then if i accept the deal you take 97 i take three and we're out of here and what the research found is if i perceived it to be unfair to it within a certain degree i would say no

and scratch the whole deal rationally speaking i would walk away with three dollars more than when i sat down but unless you put down 55 and i get 45 and

i'll be like okay but if i felt like uh i don't it's this it's this perceived loss that we're so obsessed about and we lose the fact that dude i could just take 10 bucks and go chick-fil-a here and grab some dinner that i didn't have before yeah right so you got a great car you got a great house yes it's it's got some imaginary

money associated with it great are you happy with your life right now yeah don't look for these imaginary losses that haven't happened yet that might happen in future you're going to make yourself crazy in the present that's good that's good this is the ramsay show

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so

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i'm christy wright joining me is my good friend fellow ramsay personality dr john deloney and this is a very special moment because one of our own ramsay solutions team members here in nashville tennessee matt is on the debt free stage hey matt how's it going hey christy hey john how are you it's so exciting this is huge okay so this is really fun for us because you're on our team

and we get to hear your story and so obviously you work here on the team but we're gonna hear the debt-free journey let's start by getting the basics how much debt did you pay off uh eighty thousand one hundred and ten wow and we're not supposed to ask this but i got to know how much money you make i'm just kidding don't answer that just kidding hey don't tell everybody what your role is on

the team though what's your role in the team uh i'm a developer on the b2c uh team cool one of those really smart people that knows how to program things and make things happen for you guys that go to our website and things like that okay how long did this eighty thousand one hundred dollars take you 27 months 22 27 months how long have you been on

the team uh i started may 10th so just under six months oh you're somewhat new yes okay cool okay well then cool so when so when you take us back to 27 months ago this is before you were a team member take us back to that moment and how you got started on this whole journey so i was uh dave ish for probably

not five ten years i mean dave always says that the the hardest baby step was baby step one i don't know i did it i mean five six times at least it's not that hard i just keep doing it yeah i just kept doing it that's right uh but in july 2019

uh i met a girl i thought i was going to get married that did not happen but that event caused me to to really have to reflect and like

what do i want to be true you know when i when i get to this stage of my life the meeting her the breakup uh the meeting her okay like when i met her i was like oh like if i marry this girl like what things do i want to be true you know that weren't true then which is it was a lot you know so the one i decided to tackle first was finances okay um and i decided

um to really just submit to this program i decided i am and not in fact smarter than dave so um when i went i decided you know i tried to do it before and failed so i was like i'm going to get a coordinator so i actually took fpu with a coordinator i was the only one in this class shout out to mike ford he's so awesome and you know like having that the accountability from the coordinator and then the accountability with uh some friends in my family like

those two things really uh really were the difference in the 27 months that's awesome well i'm really impressed that you when you decided to commit to it you did something different in order to have different results like get going through it with the class having a coordinator having having different people around you because a lot of people they will attempt to do something like pay off their debt multiple times

and when they don't it just it kills their confidence that they can because i tried that didn't work tried that didn't work and you're like i didn't try that didn't work i'm gonna do something different so that it does work and you did that which is awesome i didn't ask this but um what kind of debt was it um so it was i owed my parents 1200 from them fixing

my car i owe i had about 10 000 credit card debt uh 20 on a car and the rest was student loans okay so a little bit of everything how old are you matt i am 33.

so this 27 months 80 000 you hit the gas when you turn the corner you said enough's enough's enough what lit that fire um you know i i'm a enneagram one so

like once i got convinced to do it and once i had the accountability and the structures in place you know i just i just hit it and i also should say um

probably the most tactical thing i did though was i really just leaned into god's calling uh for me you know the first was submitting to this program uh and god really blessed that and then i also i had been i'd felt for a long time probably at least a year probably that i should increase my tithe from uh tithing off my net to tithing off my gross income

and i'm not a prosperity guy the only thing that i think god owes me when i read the new testament is a butt kicking so uh but i had felt called to do that for a really long time and i finally did it and i was really really nervous um but those two events together led to my income going up forty seven thousand dollars in six months wow very cool uh just from that's all

and i like i'm good i mean i'm willing to believe i'm good but i'm not that good yeah yeah well there's some there's such a principle in there and it can get into you know people could have opposition saying oh prosperity all that but i have just found again and again and again obedience precedes the blessing and it wasn't about the amount of money necessarily probably it was about

the obedience obedience to the plan and your your words submit obedience to tithing what you're just any whatever it is just doing what god is asking you to do god blesses obedience absolutely and you're just such an example of that okay so matt you have heard the debt-free calls um you know people call in what is the key for you and i know you have an interesting story

because 20 of the months were not on this team six seven of the months were on this team um for for your seat and how you've walked this out what do you think the key was that helped you actually do this uh so i mentioned the the tactical thing uh the biggest strategic thing i think was evaluating the my previous times that i had failed and really just knowing my why

you know ao always says that if your why doesn't

make you cry then the price of commitment will and that for me that was so true um that like i knew why i was making sacrifices i mean the car that i had that on i sold it and the one i replaced it with has had probably three thousand dollars worth of repairs at least like you know one right after the other and but i still kept going because i knew it was worth it though i still had the why of why i had done it so i knew

i didn't like even though i was tempted to just go buy another car on payments i was like no that's not why i sold the other one that's you know i'm getting out of debt it matters yeah well as a member of our team i i don't want this to be lost on the listener or anybody watching this but especially on you look around here man everybody stopped working

they come out here to cheer on the brother and as you've crossed this incredible threshold and you head into whatever's coming next for you i want you to never forget you're not alone in this deal and

it's incredible i i just never minded every day we show up to work here with somebody high five just says good job you've got an army of people here walk doing this crazy life thing together with you and um they got your back for whatever comes next right yeah so good okay who who else in this journey have been your biggest cheerleaders uh so my parents were a big help i uh during covid i ended up staying over there a lot because i was i work remote

i was at the time i was working remote and i mean i would go like days without talking to anybody in person so i ended up over at my parents a lot uh they also have an anxiety written dog that i needed to take care of um so i did that and then my buddy aaron

and his wife sarah are both

they were both my accountability partners i want to be like both of them somehow when i grow up and you know they were really sort of the tactical like hey i really want to buy this and they just said no no like you don't need it no you don't need it i love it well matt you're amazing and the work that you do here at ramsey solutions is what leads to

the life change of so many people that are listening to this show right now and so we're so so grateful you're on the team so grateful for you to share your story and uh and gosh what an amazing hard work that you paid off 80 thousand dollars and 27 months you're you're incredible no you know matt normally when you say we have a copy of the legacy journey

and total money makeover which i think you have access to anything you want here as a product benefit as a team member all right matt matt from nashville tennessee here on our debt-free stage as a member of ramsey solutions paid off eighty thousand one hundred ten dollars in 27 months matt

count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free

i love it i love seeing a team in the lobby oh my gosh it's so cool and how cool that the last six months or so as he paid it off was here on our team i mean that's just one of my favorite parts about matt's example is he said i tried a few times i was davish i tried to fail tried failed and then i did something different do something different do something different doing

the same thing over and over again i just yell at my kid all the time and they just keep doing the same thing will you change maybe you guys are listening right now and you've tried this baby steps plan you've tried the dave plan your day ish and it hasn't worked maybe you sign up for a financial peace university class maybe you sign up for ramsey plus maybe

you get an accountability accountability group maybe you put some things in place to help you do the things you say you want to do maybe you do something different this is the ramsey show [Music]

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i'm christy wright dr john delonia are taking your calls answering your questions got a question about relationships money starting a business or the million dollar question how do you balance it all it's one of my favorite ones to answer especially these days we are here for you triple eight eight two five five two two five answer that question is like 20 bucks you wrote a book on

it didn't you i have a book for you it's like 20 bucks you don't have to cost a million dollars well that's the question that everyone loves to ask everyone loves to talk about and here's the thing everyone has a lot of feelings on this topic of balance they have a lot of feelings on a lot of things totally but despite their hatred of the word can't stop talking about

it you can't stop asking about it so yes someone asked me in an interview recently like yeah you just you just put that on the cover the guilt-free guide who i found so like sure did i'm an enneagram eight i'm just gonna go right into them

i know it's a thing all right let's go to palm beach florida with janice hey janice how are you hi christy i'm good how are you good what's going on well i'd love to ask the question about balance but today i have a different question hey it's free not even a million dollars yeah well you guys are going to think i'm joking um but i found out over

the weekend that my father bought a car for my 12 year old daughter wow planning on unveiling it on christmas as a gift for her and he doesn't know that i know about it and i honestly am really upset and do not know how to approach this with him that so sounds like something my dad would do janice why would he buy seriously why walk me through

this i want john delony to walk us through this together janice yeah should my dad do this potentially first of all can i ask a follow-up how did you find out uh my mom told me okay all right all right oh mom this is your very good friend dr d okay so why why why why did your dad

this isn't the first time he's done this what but why did your dad buy a car for your 12 year old okay so let me give you a little bit of background information i know my dad had this older jeep that belonged to

his dad before he passed away and he recently made about six months ago approached me and said that he wanted to give that jeep to my daughter for you know when she was able to drive and i was i said no we have a plan with that you know we're gonna make sure that she works and saves money and we told her already that we're gonna match

it you know we have a savings account she asks to see it every once in a while to see how much money is in it you know all that sort of stuff and he said well why you know why can't she have the jeep i said well it's really old jeeps aren't super safe and i think from that he heard well it's old and jeeps aren't safe

so let me let me get a different car that's actually that's not what he heard but go ahead i'll tell you what he heard in a second so you know and i told him we have a plan we want to do this for her and um

yes but he totally ignored it which he does say how long has he completely ignored your plan and your boundaries probably for all of your life always yes and so what he heard was oh a boundary that's cute watch me go right through it

i i'm so here for this for this answer janice i am on the edge of my seat i know a friend who might

be curating can i ask you one one more hard question sure what does he contribute to you and

or your daughter financially uh nothing anymore i was a single mom

for the first five years of her life so i did rely on my parents a little bit with some help with day care and insurance expenses okay once i got married my husband and i worked really hard to pay off debt for about three years so i think my family saw us working really hard and didn't quite understand it and thought oh they must not have any money

so i think maybe he still thinks that but as of right now he does not contribute anything gotcha so um we could do this one all day long this is super fun um here's the the way to cut through this is always remember two things secrets

destroy relationships and secrets are weapons for bullies

narcissists um people who are small that are trying to feel bigger and so the approach through this is throw all the lights on and turn all the music off call your dad and say i heard you got my daughter my 12 year old a car

walk me through what you're thinking dad and here's what you're gonna do that is um punching a bully in the nose i'm not gonna let you show up and then put me on blast in front of my 12 year old to make me the bad guy when i tell you to take this gift that you got my 12 year old away and so call it out and say did you do this and let him the the stammer around

and then he'll say you need to save this and i'm just trying to help out in just five years and he's going to weaponize how he's helped you in the past and make you the bad guy because he had to step in and help you and he's always got to step in and help you and blah blah blah and this is where this is going to become important

you laid a boundary down when he said i want to get her the old jeep i want to fix it up and give it to you and you said no we have a plan well now he's calling your bluff on your boundary and we get to see what what you're made of okay this is where you're gonna have to say something hard like if you bring a car to my house i'm gonna have

it towed away or you are not welcome at christmas if you show up to my house with a car for my 12 year old i love this advice so much i want to ask one quick question of janice as as john is giving you this advice janice have you ever had similar hard conversations do you have the habit of calling your dad out on this stuff in

the past yeah probably at least once a year and i did have a follow-up question should i bring my husband in on this conversation with my dad or should i just leave it between us for now uh i i think that six one way half dozen another um i think you talked through the decision with your husband if it's me i'm gonna reach out to my parents christian i've actually disagreed on

this we've had a lot of fun with that on your show um i don't know that that's necessary you can if you want him to call your dad and say hey you're not we have a plan my my your daughter my wife told you that um but i'm stepping in here saying there's not going to be a car brought to my house on christmas period um and i'm have

it towed away i don't know that that's necessary i think if you are as direct as john is telling you to be which is absolutely what it's going to take i think you're dead i don't think you need to invite her i don't i don't see a reason why you need to i say this in love because i've had these exact conversations with my parents i mean it's like

we are so close and because when you have a real close relationship there can be a lack of respect for boundaries that's right and it's like i will be as direct as you i'm like we're not doing that i don't know how else to say it that is not happening if you're willing to be that direct i think you will get through but you can't tiptoe around

this janice like you've gotta you gotta say why did you do this i will tow it away this is not happening and you've gotta be that clear and expensive i can't say are you absolutely crazy well when you do that you are evoking emotion and you're trying to um i'm going to contradict myself here you're trying to hit him back and i just said you're punching a bully in

the nose which is you want to take the absolute most dignified high road here because you're dealing with a child and just say the facts like you always say this just say the fact there's no reason to say are you crazy because it doesn't matter even if he is it doesn't matter it's irrelevant because that car is not coming to your house on christmas and as long as

you cover that this car is not coming to our house on christmas or it's getting taken away by the touch it's going to get towed and that would be embarrassing for you but like as long as you're that clear then you don't have to have any of those slams like those jabs and this part always sounds fun and empowering when you talk to somebody about boundaries and they'll walk away be like yeah i'm gonna make no mistake

this will cost you it will be hard because i know most people who try things like this garbage are immature psychologically and spiritually he'll throw a temper tantrum it will well then i'm not doing anything and he's not going to call you on your birthday it'll be all kind of manipulative nonsense on the back end of this deal that's where your husband and your close community of friends will really be

you know i always say that your friends or your emergency fund for life that's when you're gonna have to lean on folks because you have a father figure who's acting like a four-year-old right

yes and so when you understand the back end of holding your boundaries is going to cost you something whether it's relational whether it is a pity party whether it's actual money um because he's supporting you in some shape form or fashion which he's not anymore then yeah hold your boundaries hold your boundaries firm and um don't look back yeah you got this janice good luck don't let

it manipulate you parents your child your christmas your family your grown-up kids be grown-ups support and love him i feel like we could do a theme hour on boundary stallone i feel like we i feel like this needs more dignity 20 million books maybe for a different day all right i want to thank producer james child associate producer kelly daniel my co-host dr john deloney and you america for listening

this is the ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsay call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts [Music]

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio this is the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm christy wright author of the new book take back your time the guilt-free guide to life balance and i'm joined today by my good friend dr john deloney host of the dr john deloney show author of

the best-selling book redefining anxiety and we are here for you give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we're taking your calls about money as always but if you wanna talk about relationships you have a relationship question you have a question about time management or work or business or all of it yeah a boss that you just can't handle anything and let's be honest they're all related anyway all related all

the time you don't have a work life and a home life all your different areas of your life affect each other work affects home home effects works your relationships affects your money of you know it goes in all directions and so we'd love to talk to you give you some advice talk through it with you help you see your options triple eight eight two five five two two five john one of

the things that um i think is really fun here as a as a team ramsey solutions and um you know especially in the busy fall season i feel like we're kind of coming to the end of the fall and the busy season we're always planning ahead so i'm curious what are you working on what are you excited about what are you thinking for next year what kind of things

i haven't got to tell you congratulations to being number one bestseller dude thanks that hit the big big old numero uno yeah that's awesome that's fun thank you so i turned in my manuscript for a big book uh when does this come out i know it's not like april april okay and so a little we're we're excited and starting the whole getting ready to get that ball rolling downhill now is

it so does it launch for pre-sale in april in february okay gotcha but it will be a kind of the the flag in this in the sand on how to change your life and man just the the nonsense and the about relationships and mental health and all of it that we've been just sold a bill of goods man and here's how to get it back how was

this process different for you than uh writing redefining anxiety um redefining anxiety was more like a grad school paper i mean for me it was like uh um this was more of something i've been working on for about 10 years and just happened to be here yeah and so yeah um

and there's a team of people that help make sure my i can get a little uh pop off the mouth a little bit and they'll say what does that actually mean and i'll say i don't really know and so there's a refining process here which is great and there's editors here so i the book will be much shorter than what i submitted which is good because i talk too much

but i'm i'm looking forward to it did you know that when i turned in the manuscript for business boutique well let me let me start over when i wrote business boutique our team i was a new author and our team really didn't know if i would have enough words yes we have plenty we could all laugh about that now in hindsight so my instruction was to write until

and i quote the cows come home right until the cows come up just keep right like they were so concerned i wouldn't meet my word count the minimum word count that they needed was uh sixty or seventy thousand words i turned in one hundred and ten thousand yes yes fun fact for those of you guys that have read business boutique uh the reason it is the size that

it is is to spread out all the words to make it physically larger so it wouldn't be a tomb of thickness that's exactly right that's basically what i turned entered in a lot too so yeah yeah so we have a good editing team it's a fun it's a fun process though you write your you know put your heart and soul into that and i know it's going to help a lot of people dave tells

the story about the one of the way back in the day when he was doing just financial peace university that he had written the his first book and it was the it was clear and simple and the woman

who who spoke the words over him that have just stuck in his heart for years finally a finance book i can understand and that was the echo through this whole writing process for me which is finally a mental health

and relationships book that i can actually understand that's right that 99.9 of people can actually pick up and it's not 800 pages and it's not full of

all of this complex neural that stuff's important and i geek out on that what i found is my friends don't and what they do is they just stop reading yeah they give it and this stuff's too important now yeah we're all frazzled and cooked and burned and we've got to make some changes that is such a complex i mean i'm sorry that's such a gift to take complex ideas

and put them in simple language that people can understand um i'm reading a lot of books right now in seminary and the ones that i can actually understand i'm so grateful for versus the people that just try right to sound like smartypants i'm like okay you're super smart now i need a dictionary to look up every other word i get how smart you are could you please explain

it in a way and what i've learned that's how they talk like when they're at the movies and my daughter said something the other day she used a word that was 111 syllables and my wife and i looked at each other's like we're raising nerds and she's like yeah it's because that's what we are john like so it's the way people talk but it's not helpful yeah to

the to most people's time so it's anyway i'm excited to get it out there and congratulations on your books all right let's go to detroit with dawn hey don how are you good in yourselves good what's going on

um i consider myself baby step four

um do you consider yourself or you actually are well i consider myself baby step seven but i am not mathematically there but it's fun to think about it i have all my debt paid i have a six month uh emergency fund

but i have not been able to put 15 percent towards investment because my uh elp we both came to agree and said i was

house poor so i sold the house and moved

into an apartment so i will always have an apartment rent so i want to try to increase my investments because for 26 years they were frozen and in addition i don't know how much to set aside for medical i usually have seven to ten sometimes twelve thousand dollars a year in medical fees okay uh payments so you're just saying from a budget standpoint how to set aside the money for your medical expenses yeah right well i mean it sounds like the good part is it sounds like this is not a huge mystery you've got a range even the range you just gave me seven to twelve thousand i know that's a you know you got some five thousand dollars in a range there but at least gives you something to work with and the good news is that let's say for example you set aside ten thousand dollars and you you budgeted that out as you know whatever roughly you know you wanted to do on a monthly basis and your medical bills next year in 2022 came in at 15 000.

you have an emergency fund for that reason if there were if there's something above and beyond what you expected or anticipated or budgeted for especially when we're talking about medical here that is exactly what that's for so i think you're i think you're in a better position than you might feel like um dawn for for you know having that having that money there do you have a health savings account that you can keep this money in

yes i do now i did not have yeah that's an important vehicle for you because it will it will be there in the years when you only have five thousand dollars and it will it will grow so the years you have the ten thousand dollars or the twelve thousand dollars it will it will roll over year after year which is fantastic what's your health challenges that are ongoing that that at that cost

i have autoimmune connective tissue disease with central nervous system that's painful painful painful huh it at times uh but just recently i'm in

um early stages of heart failure oh i'm

so sorry dawn so sorry we'll be thinking about praying about it um praying for you but yeah just be intentional about those costs and put that money away um and it's hard hard money to put away do it every month put it into hsa and we'll roll over for you and um we'll be praying for you you've done you've done a good job so far don you're doing great this is the ramsey show [Music]

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last 18 months have been a lot a lot of

worry a lot of wondering what would happen next and maybe that's how you feel about your money too tired stuck stretched thin but it doesn't have to be that way you just need a plan because a plan gives you confidence even when everything else seems out of control and that plan is financial peace university this class will teach you everything you need to know to save money pay off debt

and build wealth for the future you can stream the lessons on your own or get the support or get support by going through the class with others then you'll put that plan into practice with the premium version of our every dollar budgeting app by syncing your bank to your budget you can easily track your spending and see where your money goes you get all this only with a ramsey plus

membership you don't have to stay exhausted and overwhelmed you can win with money to start your free trial of ramsay plus text trial to 33789 that's

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all right today's blinds.com question of the day find out for yourself why blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window covering you get free samples free shipping with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsay to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply

today's question comes from trina in california trina says my husband and i have four children ranging in age from seven to fifteen we live in a three-bedroom two-bath home so the kids share two bedrooms and a small bathroom my oldest daughter has anxiety disorder and insomnia so she struggles with having to share a room it's also hard on her siblings to share a room with her she's constantly looking at bigger homes for sale in our town

and when we tell her we're not moving she begs us to let her move in with her best friend or grandparent so she can have a room of her own are we being selfish because we chose a smaller house that we can afford my therapist suggested we consider moving into a bigger house with a 30-year mortgage just to give her that space for the next three years

and then downsize again when she is on her own

so to answer your question here are we being selfish because we are living in a home the size of which we can afford the answer is no good for you um i think we have a culture christie where people have buy caught gigantic cars they can't afford gigantic homes they can't afford so everyone's got a bathroom everyone's got a room and everyone's got a yard everyone's got a pony

and a whatever um so know you're not being selfish if you're living a smaller house that you can afford if you try to if you the reality is you

live in a smaller home and you have a lot of people people are sharing rooms then you have to be hyper intentional about connectivity about roles about how who is not here's the rules of our house but here's why you matter here and kids feel a desperate need for

connection and they feel a desperate need for purpose and if you just plop a 12 year old in a 15 year old's room and say y'all figure it out yeah dude we're not going to figure that out so the easiest thing here is to run is to punt this down the road let's take on another couple hundred thousand dollars in mortgage debt so that we can what i'm telling

you this won't solve the problem yeah right you won't solve the problem you'll have a 15 year old who disappears for three years and then moves out you will not have healed or supported or helped your daughter you may have quieted the chaos for a minute my guess is you won't when kids have anxiety when they've got insomnia when they've got ocd when they've got adhd i always want parents

and this is myself included here understand most of the time your kids bodies aren't broken or disordered those that anxiety that insomnia that is your body saying i'm not safe there's something going on here i'm not okay it's not because there's somebody sharing my room with me most of the time it is something bigger than that so i want to look at those challenges not as things to run from

but as let's get in try to figure out what your body's trying to tell you here yeah and those are hard and those are messy and i'll tell you if your therapist is telling you yeah you know what you should um do put your family at risk in

a situation financially that you can't afford to placate a 15 year old you may

need to get a new therapist right that's a that's a tough situation they put you in what do you think yeah i guess it just for me one of the hardest parts about this it's not just about the house or about the money i totally agree with you obviously you need to live a house you can afford and and figure out what's really going on that's probably not

the room i think one of the hard things and i'm curious your thoughts on this when it comes to parenting and i still consider myself pretty new at this because my oldest is six so i have been in the parenting game for six years i just have three kids under age sex the hard thing is when they have different needs um not just that they're wired different

they have different personalities but they have different needs um it feels unfair to have different

expectations of them like that i would expect of carter that he behaves differently than my middle son conley gotcha not just because their age but because of their capacity right and so how do you handle that where as the mom as the parent as the dad you're going okay i've got four kids one has some things that she struggles with and so and so how do you accommodate that

and make that child feel safe while also not making it quote unquote unfair or whatever with the other kids in the household where it's like okay we don't want to walk on exhales around this child because we don't want to ignore these children and do you see what i'm saying i don't feel great i don't feel like i'm asking anybody perfectly but there's other kids involved in

this equation and how do you help everybody when their needs are different and their struggles are different so the demon of mental health challenges or more specifically the demon of everybody's body reacts differently to things some people respond to chaos by getting really loud some kids respond to chaos by trying to disappear become as small as possible the challenge here is you can't see it and what

i mean by that is my son is 11

and he's humongous i will ask him to go grab uh hey we go grab that thing for me while i'm in the middle of cooking something because he's tall and he can go get that right i won't ask my five-year-old little little girl she's very short i'm not gonna ask her to do that that's beyond her capacity similarly i want all my kids to get in the car

and go to target with me right now even though she's exhausted he's been running a track meet and he played a baseball game and so i i tend to

moralize and and make issues of character things i can't see and so every kid's got different needs and it may be that for a 15 year old who is brain is saying we're not okay right now i can't even go to sleep at night because i'm scared something's not right that tells me there's chaos in that home that tells me there's third rails in that home and that tells me that hey

you know what i really love i love our whole family getting together for dinner that might be the only hour of the day that my 15 year old has time to herself and so for this season i'm going to concede that but you're going to go on a walk with one of us with mom or dad and that means mom or dad we're not going to be able to watch our favorite show every night

and we can so or we have to put our phones down and fill in the blank right um it's about re-examining the entire picture but no i think you're exactly right as a parent i want all my kids to do what i say and the way i say it because i have this picture of going to the hardware store today i just got to know that man she's got to go to sleep right now yeah

and he has asked can i just have some time by myself and i'm not going to do that to him yeah and those sometimes those are issues of character we're all going to store and so when we're going i need you to be respectful most of the time that is something that's exceeding their capacity and as a parent i got to change my picture of what that's going to look like yeah

i think that's so powerful and and something we have to practice on a regular basis you let go of this picture of how you thought it was going to be and one of the things i learned from david thomas who has written multiple books and he i've had him on the christy right show he's so smart but he's he he talks about be okay with letting go of that picture for

this season it doesn't mean forever but maybe in this season we're going to let this child off the hook and they're not going to have family dinners and they're going to eat in their room or eat on their own because they just need some peace and quiet to themselves in this season but see as a parent you think like we're never going to eat as a family again

it becomes these extremes in this season you can let go of your expectations and the way that david thomas said it which i love how he talked about this he said for a better outcome you can force it and everyone's miserable and anxious and not sleeping or you can say okay what what is needed maybe we divide up sometimes matt and i will split up the kids even though

i want everybody together but we'll split them up for a better outcome right saturday you're gonna take two i'm gonna take one or vice versa and i just love that it's it's a hard step to take to say i'm going to let go of what i wanted things to be but if it's for a better outcome then it's amazing because it really is that active love of saying

this is going to lead to better results for everybody yeah so think think this this guide to me if i get to a conversation with my wife and i win and she loses we both lose that's right when i get into a piss and match with my kids and i win and they lose we all lost yeah

and so the goal is how can i even have to make hard decisions hold my kids accountable get them to do things they didn't want to do it's because of this outcome yeah and they've got to know where we're headed here yeah right and i've got to be flexible in that season yeah that's good being willing to let go of that that's good that was a good good question great question

but i'm glad we talked about it because i know a lot of people probably can relate to being in something similar this is the ramsay show [Music]

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listen do not let your valuable time pass you by your time is like your money once it's gone it's gone and if you try to balance it all you can feel overwhelmed and at times you end up pushing your goals and yourself to the sidelines putting your plans on paper is the key to accomplishing anything in life and i've got just the thing to help you do that my 2022 goal planner is

here and here's the thing you need to get these before they sell out because trust me they sell out every single year and by the way they sell out earlier every year people love this planner so much because it really helps you focus on what's important to you your spirit mind body relationships and resources we've got monthly weekly and daily calendar sections that you love but there's also monthly teaching you've got content every single month like reading a book on a particular theme to help

you grow in that area of your life then you've got action plans which are tools and templates to help you put that teaching into practice you've got guided journaling to help you reflect on these things and even month in review so that you're reflecting on the last month before you dive into your goals for the next month it is incredibly strategic to help you stick with your goals

and even assess them and reassess them throughout the year as your life and seasons change because we know that they will if you're ready to crush your new year's goals whether it's spiritual growth personal life money or work or anything this planner will help you get there so get your 2022

gold planner today in our online store at ramseysolutions.com and i promise you when they sell out they're gone no we won't reorder i'm sorry they're dated and so once they're gone they're gone if you want to get this as a christmas gift go ahead and get it the feedback has been awesome the reviews are awesome and and people love using them it not only helps you plan your year

it helps you put on paper on purpose what you want your year to look like which is a powerful step and actually making that happen that's ramsay solutions.com you can get your 2022 goal planner today okay let me ask

you this all right i need some help okay

this is me coming clean on the ramsay show this should be good million people this should be good so one of the things i struggle with most in the world on 95 of my days i have a

note card with me that just have here's what i've got to do today i want to make sure i do today well

i had a conversation this weekend i'm working with a new doctor and we went over everything from genetic testing to i mean everything this guy knows me real well and he's like you have a problem with sweets don't you and i was like oh my gosh did you know that right so he knows everything are you reading my mind no he's just reading my dna um i struggle with setting up a plan like

this the day-to-day linking to a series of outcomes that i'm looking forward to um down the road whether it's a month in advance two months in advance four months in advance my philosophy has always been i'm just gonna make sure i work out today and tomorrow takes care of itself yeah and the older i'm getting the more i realize that's not always true it will i'll end up somewhere

but it's often far from where i the picture i had in my head of where i could have been yeah so how this thing i don't know much about journals i've bought a few in the past and they've got like 11 ribbons in them and they're supposed to go this back for this thing sells out whenever they announce it to this to our staff people it's like dave's just throwing cash at people it's like people are screaming like ah it's like a metallica concert

when they announce the the planners are out what is the magic sauce number one that makes this planner so good and number two give me coach me okay forget the first question we all know it's good help me um what would you tell somebody who struggles with connecting the dots long term because the reality is i'm kind of just stumbled through life does that make sense yes yes

i think you're being i think you're being a little either humble or underestimating how much hard work you've actually done that has led to you no i've done a ton of hard work being right here you didn't just wake up here no i've done a ton of hard work but it's all like ah let's have a good tuesday we'll get i need some

a tip or two that's going to help me get from a to b okay here here's to link my daily practices with goals so so let me tell you one of the things that i think is the magic of the planner and and it's not a personality style and it's not so one of the things that many women experience and this one this book this planner is not just for women though it's highly feminine looking

it has hot pink on it so probably most men are not going to buy but it's a great gift for their wife but here's what i think is is magical about it so many women feel this responsibility either spoken or unspoken to be cruise director of the universe they are orchestrating all the pieces of all the people all the time that's a lot to manage so this planner helps

you manage that but here's the power of it it helps you consider yourself in that game it helps you consider yourself in your week it helps you consider yourself in your day like how are you taking care of yourself this week what are you doing towards your goals this week what do you what do you want your week to look like and it's not a selfish message of like ah bulldoze everybody or else

you know it's not that it's just like hey in the grand scheme of the 400 things you've got to do why don't we consider ourselves how can you grow and take care of your mind how can you grow in your faith how can you take care of your body but you know general questions for reflection just the simple practice of pausing and saying hey how do i feel about that or how am

i doing today before i pile on the pressure of my to-do list whether it's in a planner or on a sticky note or a napkin yeah so many people all i think all people do this but i i work with a lot of women so a lot of my my products are directed at women um they wake up they pour the coffee and they just run as hard as

they can then they collapse and they collapse and they they never even consider how am i doing what are my priorities for the day we just react to the world around us and i think that there's something very powerful in getting in the rhythm where you consider yourself in your own life so such a simple concept but we don't do it the reverse engineering of that for

those who are singularly focused on their life is where do you plug into the world around you right if you've got kids at home how are you participating in their life if you have a spouse at home how are you participating in his or her life right how are you making your household um a better place a more hospitable place a safer quieter whatever place yeah right

so it's the opposite of that but it's still the same well and it's there's just certain while balance looks different for everyone and goals look different for everyone and even how you plan if you're a planner on your phone or planner paper everybody's different that's totally fine but there and i write about this in my book but there are certain ingredients to living a balanced life there are certain ingredients that that are good to have in your life regardless of who

you are male or female any personality style doesn't matter what kind of planner you are having time alone having key relationships so even in in the weekly planner of the the 2020 goal blender there's a spot what am i doing for myself this week what am i doing for my family this week and what am i doing for my dream this week your dream could be your career or a project or a hobby or your business

so it's just remembering hey these are things that each week not every day we're not gonna do them all every day but each week hey if i haven't done anything to take care of myself in a week we need to check on that self-care is not a pedicure or a spa day once a year on christmas or your birthday this is like brushing your teeth so daily practice how are

you taking care of yourself on a regular basis and so it's just those reminders what am i grateful for it just gets you in rhythms of of paying attention to these different ingredients that that create a

balanced life it's not all perfect and it's not a formula but man when you have a tool in front of you that just reminds you of what's important to you it helps you actually pay attention to it spend time on it so knowing kristen and not missing because you're telling me i have to be intentional and make choices

i like your napkins or your sticky note system though i think that works great yeah but it provides for a really rudderless life it's fun but as my wife

reminds me there's a whole team of people cleaning up the world behind you john as you just are like ah what if we try this you know what i mean or oh that sounds fun i'm going to the gym it's like well cool i will make sure the kids have food right so it's it's a

it's exactly the opposite of what

some focus on which my life's about everybody else and i am silent and invisible in this life versus the other side of it and again it's a balance of yeah of both having both in your life well i think the key that i think people need to remember is the tools that we create for you all whether that is the every dollar budget every dollar budgeting app or um ramsay plus where you've got your course to take your financial piece university classes or john's book on redefining anxiety or the 2022 goal planner these

are tools to help you be the person you want to be to create the life that you want to lead to help you do what you say you want to do the the tool in itself is not valuable those planners sitting in a warehouse it's not valuable it's when you use that

to do what's important to you to spend your time on what's important to you to think about what do i want this year to look like what do i want this month to look like what do i want my budget to look like how do i want to get out of debt you know the plan is the path for

you to get to where you want to be that's the reason people get out of debt and it works so it's just it's the tool you but you're the one that makes it work uh that means i gotta do it i see what you're saying here this is the ramsay show

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romans 15 4 says for everything that was written in the past was written to teach us so that through the endurance taught in the scriptures and the encouragement they provide we might have hope romans

15 4.

martin luther king jr said intelligence plus character that is the goal of true

education all right we're going to go to new haven connecticut with miguel hey miguel how are you good thank you how are you great what's going on thank you for taking my call sure so i am about to be 37 years old and uh

i'm finding myself in a pretty overwhelming situation uh i've got about five hundred thousand dollars in debt that has uh accumulated it comes a it's a mix of irs debt uh student loans credit cards and auto loan and uh i'm making eighty 87 000 a year

on my income and about 17.50 a month on disability

uh so i'm finding myself in a situation now where it's all kind of falling on my lap i just put together my very first budget at 36 years old using the every dollar app and i'm coming up short um i'm not really sure where to go from

here so i looked into bankruptcy chapter 7 chapter 13 and i got off the phone with a law agency earlier today they said that i would probably qualify for chapter uh 13

but my income i guess is too high for chapter 7.

so i'm just kind of looking for some guidance looking to see what my best option would be uh where i could get some free advice uh if there's any um see where to go from here yeah i'm so sorry i can hear that in your voice yeah are you are you married have kids overwhelming yeah uh so i have one child

i'm divorced and uh i've been through two separations which have you know they've kind of led me to this situation financially

um so yeah i put that a little bit on my plate well yeah what do you what do you do for a living i am a nurse practitioner okay awesome

so currently i'm in a residency program um and they're only paying 87 000 a year

uh because i'm in a learning phase this is a one-year program after this if i decide to stay at the va

i'll go up to about 110 000

if i decide to go outside of the va i will make more money but in the end i'll lose you know retirement benefits and and you know free health care for life everything that comes with being a federal employee so that's another question whether i should continue to work at the va and bank on those benefits or you know seek employment elsewhere and try to make as much money as fast as i can so what i would tell you is um you're drowning right and you know that right

yes um here's here's the analogy and it might not be perfect but the analogy you just gave me is i want to stay in the water because i've got this life raft here versus i'm going to start swimming to shore and i'm going to get out of the water completely and what feels safe long term eventually

if you will

may ultimately sink you because you're you don't have enough money here this makes me happy that you're in a one-year program okay because you're going to at least double your salary and absolutely you're going to get out of the va and go out to the open market and work and you're going to be able to be being a nurse practitioner man you're gonna be able to make a great salary

and you're gonna have to just start slowly grinding this thing away and you feel like you're 100 years old you're not you're absolutely not um what uh you said you got disability what's your disability from are you a veteran i am okay from my time overseas awesome

um so you've got disability on top of your 87 uh correct yes okay so total growth income is 108.

okay all right great so the chances of you coming out of here and getting 160 or 170 what's that what's what's the feasibility in your market um i mean if i were to take travel

contracts like a local tenant position yep i can probably get that there would be you know multiple short-term contracts which i've done as an rn uh to make ends meet you know with the covet crisis there you go bill um i'd probably do the same thing as a nurse practitioner so what i want you to step back and look and say okay 37 i'm going to be 38 when i'm out of this program here if i put myself on a four and a half or five year plan and i worked backwards

what kind of contracts would i have to take over the four and a half to five years and will you be tired abso freaking you're gonna be exhausted but what would it look like to pay this debt off settle some of this with the irs if you can settle some of this with your credit card company if you can you can't settle those student loans you're those are just weights you're going to have to tread water with what would

it look like what would i have to earn to be able to reverse engineer this and my guess is at 150 160 175 000

this becomes a lot more surmountable

with if you've got a plan you're experiencing christine's beginning of this you're experiencing miguel with so many folks and whether it's 500 000 or 50 000 is that initial shock when you see a budget and you think oh no this is forever and i want you to know it's not

but it's a matter of these baby steps as you walk and walk and walk and you've got a pacifier with the feds and you're gonna have to let that go and you're gonna have to work like you thought you were busy when you were younger in the ser you're gonna have to work like you haven't worked but man at that salary at that level you've got a big shovel you'll be able to dig out of

this quicker than you think and just and the key to this is while while you're making good money and you've put in the work to do this residency and all those things it's going to be really tempting to be like well i deserve xyz you've got to live on

nothing the the more you live on nothing rice and beans means the rice i mean you get creative with every possible thing that you can to keep your expenses to an absolute minimum for a season the more you can live on nothing and get that income up like we're talking about the faster you're out of debt and so you absolutely can do this and one of the things that um

i want to make sure that we give you miguel if you'll stay on the line i'll have kevin kelly give you a membership a year membership to ramsey plus which it has our class in there called financial peace university and you watch these lessons and here's what's gonna be so key it's not only going to show you how to get out of debt it's going to keep

you motivated on the journey there's an incredible community in there as well and you can connect with those people you can get inspiration get encouragement get teaching you'll also have that budgeting app that we're talking about which will sync with your bank so watch those lessons and do exactly like john said we've got to get the income up to be able to get out of this mess

but you can do it and once you can see the plan then you'll see how you can do it so can i tell you this miguel we just had a couple in a previous hour on today's show do a debt-free screen and they paid off 500 thousand dollars

oh man what they say they got they got after it they got after it in in five years yes and right after he was diagnosed he was diagnosed with um with a parkinson's parkinson's and so i'm gonna tell you i just had somebody stand in front of us on the debt-free stage and they did it okay

here's another thing i want you to remember um tell me about your little one uh she's nine years old nine years old dan she loves to sing that's awesome so listen to me this stops with you because in five years how you said she's nine years old she's nine yeah nine years old right in five years she's gonna be 14.

and she's gonna have a debt-free dad who walks about seven inches taller than he is right now and she's gonna skip to have a ringside seat to sacrifice to hard work to hey we

don't have the money to go to disneyland so we're going camping we're gonna sorry we're going fishing we're gonna figure this stuff out we're going to hang out with uncle so-and-so and aunt so-and-so and they live in this crazy town and she's going to have a ringside seat to adventure and sacrifice and she's going to get to watch her family tree change while she's in it and it's

because your sacrifice is not going to go unnoticed so brother you're about to change your family tree and your daughter's never going to experience this and your why goes way past this scary moment right now your legacy her legacy and her kids legacy brother so congratulations and you call us back when you're debt-free and you're gonna do that debt-free scream on this stage absolutely with us and we're gonna celebrate

you because you're gonna do it and i can't wait to watch you do it gonna be awesome thanks for calling miguel all right i want to thank producer james child associate producer kelly daniel my co-host dr john deloney and you america for listing in this has been fun this is the ramsey show [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

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you

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## 213. The Ramsey Show (REPLAY from October 26, 2021)


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:26:46 |

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money i'm ramsey personality george campbell host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast joined today by none other than dr john deloney best-selling author host of the aptly named dr john deloney show and we're excited to take your calls america it's a free call today

and every day triple eight eight two five five two two five we can talk about money relationships emotional wellness mental health most of that i'm going to delegate to john no i want to watch you answer this question john you want to watch the world burn man come on that would make me happy well uh i'll answer mutual fun questions and you answer relationships and you know what that is that creates mutual fun all right

i wish if there was a band he'd do the little drone we just sell out there we only had 11 listeners and we just lost half of them we just lost they're like you know we're leaving well for those that are still with us we are so glad you're here and we have a really a a lobby crowd that i think is electric today the lobby crowd is riveting

i wish

you could be here to see in america the building's on fire come visit us there they are if you're watching uh you can see them they're waving nicely at the cameras so we're taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five and we're going to kick this hour off with dave in lansing michigan dave welcome to the ramsay show i thank you i appreciate you taking my call in a nutshell my mother is 98 years old

just recently her health decline is declining rapidly so we put her into assisted living which is about eight thousand dollars a month now she has approximately a hundred sixty thousand dollars cash in a bank

and she has just over a million dollars of investments nothing crazy uh being it from the generation that she's at so it's just stocks and bonds now would it be better to to run out the money from the bank first

or take the money from the stock market or from her investment with the fear that the stock market might crash or go down significantly that's a great question dave and it does uh bring me some joy that she has done well financially i mean usually you get these kinds of calls john and they're like we have zero dollars in the bank she's broke but she's in a good spot and so i wouldn't worry about this the stock market crashing but i would say she's 98.

you know i guess that's the style of living that she uh was hoping to have at this time in her life yeah she got a million dollars in the bank i mean in investments in the bank so yeah she's earned that to write out that that last time there um yeah i'm fully on board with george there man i i'm thinking if it's me

i i think i would i are you is the will all done so this money that's in her savings would be dispersed on when she passes and and everyone knows where it's going okay yeah all of a sudden yes

yeah i think i was an interesting thing she she's never had a financial planner you know there's somebody at the bank that said yep we'll help you along and they obviously have done well but you know they lived uh very prudent they uh didn't have boats and uh cottages so yeah that's that's that's that's the joke here internally that dave says all the time is i'm not telling anybody anything my grandmother didn't tell me right that's how

they lived they had this awesome thing called common sense and another awesome thing called math that they could do and they continue to do it right you end up with a million bucks in the bank i would probably start with a cash just for ease um until you can sit on the financial planner and begin to see which one of these things you could liquidate um and in what order is

there any um

any of this stuff have to be withdrawn

that i don't you know this is first retirement okay and you're saying there is no financial planner in the picture currently there's no advisor no i would i would work with one to make sure that we make the best use of this money for the remainder of her life i mean right now you'd be okay with a million dollars and we're talking under 100k a year all in for her care it would take i mean she'd have to live another 10 years to get close to draining the investment account which i mean there's she could live to 108.

let that be the light on the hill for everybody have a million dollars in investments and 150 000 in cash so that when your time comes which it will your kids are wondering what's the best most strategic way we can do this not how are we going to do this that's a very different conversation totally different conversation i love it no stress there well john uh before

we head to this break you are uh you're crushing the dr john deloney show i've been tuning in and the way you've been handling these calls especially in some of the people's darkest moments it is it's inspiring i'm glad you're on the team for those that don't know what the show is what are you doing day in and day out that's different from the ramsay show uh

we are man we are taking calls

not not around money we're taking calls around um the calls we took today that we recorded today was um just found out my husband's cheating on me i don't know the next steps and just found out that my mother's gonna be passing away and how do i tell my kids and it's everything from parenting to relationships to my kid just got this mental health diagnosis at school

and we love him but we're tired of all these programs so what do we do next and so it is sitting with people when they feel like the wheels are falling off and then we just walk through it man we have a lot of fun we laugh james and kelly are a lot more joyful on that show than they are on this one and man it's a great time together well i'm glad you're on

the team taking those calls and it's it must be an honor to be the first person they think to calls i'm gonna call doctor john and get his thoughts on that's a pretty cool place man that's cool well we're happy to help here today give us a call triple eight eight two five five this is the ramsay show

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life is full of firsts

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as the first and longest serving christian health cost sharing ministry chm has shared medical expenses for its members since 1981.

we believe you should have the freedom to focus on your health while being supported by a community of believers giving you the opportunity to create many more verse

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm george campbell ramsay personality joined today by dr john dolone we're taking your calls on money on life relationships emotional wellness you name it we'll give it a shot so we are here for you america and on the line right now we've got leia in sacramento california leah welcome to the ramsay show hi thanks for taking my call absolutely how can john

and i help so my husband and i have a piece of property up in northern california near tahoe we're listing the property for just over three hundred thousand um it's actually two parcels a larger one of about an acre and a smaller one about half an acre we just got an offer from

um like a branch of i guess the county offering to put batteries on the smaller parcel and to lease the parcel for the next 15 or 30

years for about 30 000 a year if it's 15

years we get 450 000 over the next 15 um

if not we get 900 000 over the next 30.

um we'd still be able to sell the larger portion but we're kind of concerned about trying to sell the smaller portion after 15 or 30 years if we do accept that um so i just i don't really know if we should just continue to list it as one piece and try to sell it and get kind of the lump sum right now or look at this option to lease the smaller course the smaller parcel out and get the 30 000 over the next 15 or

30 years depending on the contract okay why are you concerned about your ability to sell in the future um it's i mean it's bear land um it's near tahoe

um which is great but there's a river that goes through it and you can't build a certain i guess proximity to the river and then you also can't build a certain proximity to the road so it just kind of makes it a little bit more difficult i guess it's been on the market for about a year but we've had it for a few years just trying to clean up

the property and clean up the the title on the property and things like that so when it comes to bear land i'm always kind of concerned about the difficulty when it comes to selling do you guys owe on this no we're we're in baby step seven we don't know on anything fantastic well that yeah that puts you in a different spot where you now have options what is your household income um

we make about 150 or 150 000 years

okay and other than that what are your next goals i mean do you guys want to get into real estate investing because in baby step 7 you've got lots of options there to build wealth to give to do some things are you guys wanting to be in the investment real estate business long term um yeah that's the plan i'm a licensed marriage and family therapist right now

and i do a lot of crisis work on the weekends and my husband is in real estate so i'm looking to kind of leave the crisis work when my kids are a little bit older and kind of start helping my husband more on the real estate side um so that is the plan ultimately maybe in the next couple years um so he started with this piece of property

and um so what i would what i would tell you is if i could if i could secure a lease

for what are we talking i mean we're talking almost 9x over 30 years your return um i would

sign that today and sell the bigger piece

again this doesn't bear out over time but a philosophy that i live by that i was given by a guy when i was younger is

i invest in dirt because they stopped making that a long time ago now you can buy stupid plots of raw land in the middle of southern utah i mean that are useless um having a half acre plot or an acre plot next to lake tahoe even with the restrictions i can't imagine you're not able to unload this even if you sell it at a reduced cost in 30 years

you still have made a million dollars 10x what you were going to sell it for right okay yeah and so the beauty of your situation now is you've got an acre to sell that you can hold cash on and you've got a long-term lease on dirt that you're still going to own in the into the future so it to me it feels like it's not you can't lose either way

okay yeah the way the way i'm thinking about this is based on whatever your next goal is which it sounds like you're wanting to step away from the workforce maybe uh for for what you're doing right now and to me you don't need that 300 000 today there's no fire to put out with selling it today getting 300 grand so i like the idea of locking it in for 30 years

and making almost a million dollars i mean you can just invest that money if you want and that becomes a whole new nest egg for you guys in 30 years from now that's incredible so because you're on baby step 7 if you were like hey we've got a pile of debt over here we've got to clean up i might say hey let's sell that thing get rid of

this debt and we can restart on real estate investing down the line but because of where you guys are at you have options and that's the beauty of baby step seven you guys have done really well thank you way to go thank you so much for the call awesome all right we're going to zach in dallas texas zach welcome to the ramsay show hey george and thank

you for pronouncing my name right i actually thought you were going to misspell it yeah z-e-c-h kelly's a great help i will say that how you doing doing pretty good i'm wondering if you and dr john have some tips on how i can

help kind of coach my sister-in-law through the college application process without scaring her stressing her out with all the things that go with it what what has put you in this coach role are you just wanting to help her she asks for it

part of the question if you have a tip on this i want to ask her if she will help me with it and talk to her mom about it as well but it's also because like i'm pretty much the only ramsay follower in the family and i know like i've watched broad future i watched your fine print episode on the student loan crap and i don't want to see her go through that

i want to see her succeed on what she wants to do because she's a very talented girl she wants to go into performing arts and stuff and she's filling out some process some applications and stuff but i'm trying to figure out how to like talk to her about some of this stuff like the dangers of loans and stuff and how to avoid those

yeah go through the process but so here's part of the reason i'm asking for help i'm i'm a little too practical and i don't know how to just if i go into this blind i'm gonna say something that's gonna scare her out of listening yes so here's an important thing i want you to hang on to and i want you to wrap your heart up in this okay

you cannot make her do anything you cannot coach somebody that doesn't want to be coached you can only reach out and say i would love to help if you're willing to accept it or i'd love to go to take you to coffee and talk to you about the student loan i've talked about how to apply to colleges but you're inserting yourself into a process you haven't been asked to enter

and that usually ends up in messed up relationships and so you're asking for an invitation to a party you weren't invited to and i think your heart is good and i'm glad you're asking for that invitation i say go for it but don't approach it with

hey y'all aren't that smart and i just watched a documentary and i'm going to teach you all about that i've had my friends who are vegans do that to me i've had my friends who are filling the blank they watch a documentary and they call and uh hey we need to go talk about this and it usually ends up in oh my gosh so

it's best to say hey i would love to reach out to you and i'd love to uh if you'd be interested in this conversation what we're going to do is hang on the line here we're going to send you a copy of anthony o'neil's debt free degree that i'm going to send it to you for free and you can give that to her and you can say hey

i got a gift for you i would love to sit down and talk to you about how to apply for college how student loans work and see if we can come up with a solution there i want you to not just have a lot of info about how much student loans suck i want you to have some info on how to actually apply for college how to get scholarships how

to take two years of free community college if that works in your state and then how do you transfer that on and on and on and on go with some information and some data and not just a fired up spirit yeah and i think even getting her to maybe watch the bard future documentary with you hey friday night hey you want to hang out let's catch up i've got

this great documentary if you want to watch it with me that could open up the conversation to where maybe she's starting to ask some questions and that's when you can step in but the the phrasing of it it felt like hey she needs some coaching it's like john's coming into me and saying george i'm going to be a personal trainer and i was like john i didn't know

i was overweight need to get fit well this now it's a personal attack well i mean let's let's be honest who are you going to trust america when it comes to fitness me or john but hey that's actually a great a great a great thought is when you walk up to someone you look at them and you're like you need to get in the gym i got a workout praying for

you i mean no one's gonna listen to you after that i'm immediately upset that's right if you knock on somebody's door and say hey i just have my life changed and i'd love to share it with you are you interested then you might get an audience that's a different spirit but i love the heart behind it zach we're rooting for you as you coach her through this college process to get her to avoid student loan debt

this is the ramsay show

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if you aren't strapped with student loan payments odds are you know someone who is millions of people are putting their lives on hold they can't buy a house or have kids because they're stuck or even worse they're waiting and waiting and waiting for the government to save them with student loan forgiveness what a joke our team has produced a brand new documentary feature film called borrowed future

and it is out now it uncovers the dark side of the student loan industry and exposes how the system is built to work against you you'll see dave ramsey and dr john deloney weigh in on the epic failure otherwise known as the student loan program along with featured interviews from other industry insiders and thought leaders like seth godin and seth fratman we're coming at this issue hard people we're taking big swings at

the student loan problem with the goal to arm parents and students across the country with the truth that you do not have to take out loans to get a college education you can graduate debt free and avoid the predatory student loan industry borrowed future is available to watch now and you can find it on apple tv amazon prime video google play or at

borrowed future dot com dude i'm excited about this man so pumped the feedback has been yeah it's burning through man incredible we are giving this away to teachers i want to let america know that i didn't know that if you are a teacher or if you are a youth pastor you've got you are leading teens in your life we want to show this uh for free so

you can access this go to bardfuture.com you can scroll down and click on the link if you are a teacher or in that in that realm where you are trying to influence the next generation which is a difficult task and so to have an 88-minute documentary you can push play on that says it for you yeah that is a game changer so i'm real excited and you did a great job in

this john really unpacking what you've seen because you've been in the education world for a long long time and i love it you you loved it so much you left well i mean i i do i believe in it and i love it um and i think it's important for our country i think it's important for individuals and there's got to be another way got to be

another way man yeah it's not the only path we got to reimagine doing different student loans aren't the only path college isn't the only path and we are we're very pro-education yeah we always have to caveat we love education but you got to do it the right way and you don't want to leave college with a hundred thousand fifty thousand dollars in student loan debt wondering wait

i thought this was supposed to set me up for adulthood no i was there man we had six figures and i remember pacing my house at night my wife was asleep wondering what we're gonna do and i was still in school so they were i mean it was like the meter was still running you know what i mean and i didn't i mean i that's one of

the most desperate feelings of my life not having enough money to pay my bills the meter's running i'm just racking them up because i'm halfway through a program and i don't know how we're gonna do this like i just don't know how we're gonna figure it out and so yeah it's there's i i love it i'm all in on college and

universities and we gotta do it a different way yep it's hard man check it out borrowed future.com or apple tv amazon prime video and google play all

right open phone lines this hour the number to call is triple eight eight two five five two two five bob joins us in new brunswick new jersey bob welcome to the ramsay show hey thanks for having me guys i appreciate it absolutely thank you

well um i turned 62 years old this year and that means that i could potentially well i will have access to my self-employment pension so you talk about education i am an educator i teach boating education as in uh drive a boat

on the water very cool and um how long have you done that for bob i've been doing it for a good part of 12 13 years now very cool

man prior to that i was self-employed as a

mobile disc jockey weddings banquet parties all that good stuff and prior to that worked out a pharmaceutical company realized that i didn't really want to work in corporate america but anyway well the first time i took my boat out i recognized in short order i probably should have had some classes on how to even do what i'm doing he needed you bob where were you bob i'm glad

there are people like you out in the world keeping the water safe from people like me so what's up man i i do i do my best at it i really do and and and and on top of that i really really enjoy what i do so i'm really blessed and uh so so the challenges that i have noticed i didn't say problems the challenges that i have are all

first world challenges um i do have debt and i have money to pay it off i'm just looking for some common sense uh advice here on how to go about

doing that now again emergency fund you know taking care of uh you know plenty of money in the set between you know between uh my wife's 403 b and my set

where we have plenty uh plenty that you know to cover these uh debts however um you know i just want to throw these things at you we have a mortgage we put solar on top of our house so and i purchased that as opposed to leasing it do you have a car loan and uh and my son

has a loan that uh i want to get some advice on uh that he's working towards

becoming a commercial pilot so um you know the loan rates could be a little better and i think with my credit rating i might be able to do well too so talk to me on what would be the best uh best way you

know to pay these off so bob you said you have a car loan for your own personal debt you've got the mortgage your personal mortgage and a car loan that's it for you uh the solar loan as well oh i thought you said you purchased it outright oh you took a loan out yes okay okay well again purchase as opposed to leafs oh okay all right so you've got the solder like the solar renewable energy credits in new jersey they're very uh forward-thinking and uh for each uh s-rack i'm i'm getting 220 put right

into my bank account so okay all right so here's what we teach is the baby steps of course the debt snowball and you said you already have an emergency fund and you have the cash to pay for it is this cash in the retirement accounts or is it liquid innocent yes it is you don't have the money in a savings account in cash to pay for it you would have to dip into those retirement funds at this point that is correct okay what's the car loan how much on that uh it's 23 000.

solar is 43 000.

that's going to take a while to to roi on even at 200 well because i have an electric vehicle um that actually has taken it down to uh

according to my calculations if i included that without the electric vehicle charging uh my my payback is 7.67

years is that what the sales person told you or is that with the no no no when you include the gas tank i did take the 30 federal tax credit okay all right so the car loan is gonna go first bob so that's what we have to tackle first i don't know what the car is worth uh is it worth more than 23

yeah it's a it's yeah it's a uh it's a 2020 tesla okay oh

yeah so it's it's roughly worth uh i paid i paid 50 000 for it so i'm gonna say it's probably 45 000 now okay well if you want to do it the ramsey way you're going to have to line these up from smallest to largest if i'm you i'm right now bob truthfully i'm probably selling the

tesla well uh household income is it

varies because of because of my business but it's uh generally between 150 and 200. okay so i i mean you can hang on to the car there you got 20 left on it

23 23. so we got about 66 total in debt

that is non-mortgage bob from what i'm hearing and with your income could you not pay this off in the next eight months yeah you should be done in less than a year pay that off the car pay off everything and do it with your income that makes the most sense that's you know i could i could definitely do that so i would love to see you and your wife just buckle down for 10 months

and pay off the solar and pay off your car and then knock out this mortgage how much you get left under mortgage uh it's uh 60k oh bob what do you mean

bob you could be done with this whole thing in a year done max two years then you're what 64.

and then you're doing some assaults out in the street with no shirt on because you don't want anybody any money and then you could be like you know what no i don't work on wednesdays just because i don't want to how much you have in retirement accounts uh well that's like i said that i we have first world problems two and a half million dollars oh my gosh bob i'm get i retract this entire phone call yeah let's go back to square one bob in fact this is normally a free call

yeah no you're killing it dude you're crushing it i wouldn't touch the retirement bob you can cashflow this whole thing and let that retirement grow and not unplug it quite yet absolutely yeah pay the stuff off before the year is over and stop watching bob stop touching debt get away from it no more debt no more loans no more anything you can do this man you got this you're a baby steps millionaire we just gotta follow the plan to a t to do it the right way this is the ramsay show

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i'm george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast my co-host today dr john dolone best-selling author of redefining anxiety and host of the dr john dolone show we're taking your calls on pretty much everything money life relationships mental health give us a call triple 825-5225

the number marie joins us in cincinnati ohio marie welcome to the ramsay show

thank you so much absolutely how can john and i help well um i purchased the house six years

ago for 27 000 i worked on it which i've always loved to do and i recently sold it for uh well

actually filled it for 237 and then after commission and tithe and giving to my church um i have

a hundred and eighty eight thousand way to go congratulations marie how did you do that how many how much did you put into it in repairs well i did a lot of the work um well sadly i my husband passed away january 31st so we were doing it together um he's with the lord jesus it isn't easy but it is it is um hope that you

know we will see each other so we did it together and then um

he got sick and then i just i've always known how to have tool time and i've always known how to do things um so we bought it for 27 000 when the market was not so

hot um and we we put in like the things that we couldn't repair like the roof and the electric and the plumbing we put in about thirty thousand um and so that's how we did it wow wow number one so we're so sorry for your loss sounds like your husband was an incredible guy huh he he really was it it's um

it was difficult really really difficult

um but you know it's it would be harder without

jesus so um you know it's it's been hard it's easier now but i mean it's only been since january oh yeah and it's okay for it to stay hard for a long long time yeah we're together for a while and he sounds like he was a great guy and man i'm so sorry for your loss and

on the other side congratulations for seeing this project through and finishing it and wow 188 000 cleared

wow so what's your whole financial picture marie are you okay financially obviously you've got a big pile of money here do you have a primary residence that you're currently living in well i'm actually

when i sold my house like two weeks ago uh so let's say two and a half weeks ago i moved in with my sister who's down the street we're super close it's just uh she and i together and um so my expenses went from you know

no um homeowners insurance or any of those things to my monthly expenses or like 300

i don't have a car payment i don't have credit card debt i don't have a school loan i just have my monthly expenses i can live on nothing because that's just the way we were raised my parents my parents were immigrants from santiago chile and they taught us how to live with little and make money in this beautiful america so we did what a legacy it's awesome that's awesome

so now you're sitting here you've got no debt and you've got a pile of cash and you're not looking to buy a house anytime soon because you're living with your sister and you've got a great situation there right because the long-term goal is to

my i'm gonna help my sister get her house ready and then we're gonna sell her house and then we want to buy land but it's just the mar i just don't know what to do with the money now because i'm not going to be doing that for another year and a half okay i don't want it sitting in the bank doing nothing sure so it's still a pretty short time horizon

if you're talking about a year you know 18 months from now so i wouldn't go you know throwing it into the stock market because of the volatility from you know from now to 18 months from now you could lose money so i get that you don't you don't want to putting in a bank and it's not going to grow by much you know in a money market account or a good high yield savings account you're probably looking at about a half a percent

and so it's not super exciting to see that money grow at such a slow pace but right now what i want to do is protect this money more than i do more than i want to see it grow astronomically because of the short time horizon now if you said hey five years from now i want to do this i would say all right let's put in some good mutual funds

and watch this thing grow for five years so a high yield savings account would be your best bet right now for that 188 000 as you figure out what those next steps are uh and make sure you have an emergency fund in place do you currently have three to six months of expenses i know you don't have a lot of expenses i don't i just have that's all

i have is 188 000 to your name okay so i'm gonna take six months of expenses which for you that might be really low um but you can park that in a savings account and don't touch that that's just for emergency situations that are unexpected urgent and necessary so maybe fifteen twenty thousand dollars you put in a savings account yeah or in a checking account when you're

when your transmission falls out of your car it will be annoying not

catastrophic no stress got it got it do

you have anything in retirement do you have a nest egg that you've been growing i don't i um i never worked corporate i raised my sons you know as a stay-at-home mom and then when my sons became men and they didn't need me which was great um

i kind of went back to my love which is i i'm an artist i just take vintage things take them apart and put them back together as julie and things like that so my income has never been good and so i've never had a retirement did your husband leave you with any retirement from his his professional career nothing okay no and how old are you

i'm 54.

yeah you may want to consider not may i

strongly recommend you you sit down with a xander representative and walk through what it would look like to get some health insurance over the next five 10 15 20 years were you able to cash flow your husband's illness

no you know the illness um

he was a he was an amazing person but he and he did construction as his career okay but

he he died um [Music] it's kind of embarrassing even though he's not here he died of alcohol abuse okay okay and um and so

with that said you know he had his good days and his bad days um and so he didn't leave anything he didn't do anything as far as

savings or thinking of the future that was always my job that was always like put money aside or go get the

regular job or go do the shows that i would do it was never on his radar so marie here's what i want to do we're going to give you um a year's subscription to ramsey plus and i want you to sit with your sister and i want together i want you all to go through every one of these lessons together everything from a thousand dollar emergency fund paying off your debts which all have already done to baby step three

and four and building an emergency fund and then talking about insurance talking about investing and it's gonna lay it all out there for you and i want you all to do this together because you're going to need somebody to walk alongside you and she's going to need someone to walk alongside her because you're going to be learning this stuff for the first time in your 50s and it's going to alter your dream i'm telling

you right now it's going to alter your dream but it's gonna be right

and it might be for the first time in 50 years that you sleep all night okay the first time you think about the future and your heart doesn't start racing on you okay yeah okay okay does

that sound good it does it's pretty cool huh to sleep yeah yeah not worry if we get sick we're gonna be bankrupt right yeah and that's

why i called because i you know this is a lot of money but it's all i have that's right so it's a lot of money and it's not a lot of money all the same time and marie one more step for you i want you to go to ramseysolutions.com click on trusted pros i want you to get in touch with one of our smart vester pros to teach

you what you need to do with this money when it comes to investing i think this is now your retirement nest egg this is not land fund yeah so that's what you need to do appreciate the call we're rooting for you that puts this hour of the ramsay show in the books our thanks to james child's producer kelly daniel and austin screen of the phones back there

and you america and of course dr john doloni we'll be back with you before you know it this is the ramsay show

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have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsey call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money and your mental health and your relationships and boundaries and all of the things that concern you and alien i'm george campbell ramsey personality joined today by the wheezing doctor john delaney concern you and ale yes

i'm like a 1920s uh keeper john welcome to the 21st century i'd like to introduce you to a microphone i think we need to get back to the old times in some ways our language the kids these days my wife reminds me regularly that she believes i was born in the wrong century but i don't think i've ever said well honey what ails you today

jesus oh we're having a good time give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five john would love to take your call instead of listening to me but it is it is what it is what ails you give us a shout what else yeah we'll talk money life and uh jeff was brave enough to call in all the way from phoenix arizona jeff welcome to

the ramsay show hi gentlemen how are you doing we are doing great what ails you today how can we help i'm just kind of torn in between uh

buying a piece of property uh probably be a retirement property it's about sixty thousand dollars just for the dirt so i'm trying to figure out if it's really kind of the right thing to do the right decision um you know i've got a i don't have any i don't have any bills i don't have a mortgage i don't have any uh student debt you know cars are paid off house is worth about the house is worth about 5.75 i've got a rental property that i would probably sell that's worth about about 250.

i've got about 35 000 liquid um you know what was the liquid amount of stuff 35 000.

yes but you would keep the primary residence and use this as a secondary property for yourself probably not okay because you said you were going to sell the rentals yeah the rental we would sell gotcha okay yeah i mean with that kind of money you you've got the cash either way if you sell one of these properties right

yes how are you if i don't how old are you jeff i'm i'll be 62 in december yeah so

what what's your timetable for building this house your dream home and and settling in uh probably two to three years okay i mean i mean yeah you're debt-free you've got a retirement um you don't have a ton of money in retirement but you've i mean you're a millionaire you've got a million bucks in assets out there and cash and if you want to sell the house right now

the market's hot and hang on to that cash and buy dirt in your dream community uh i mean that's what i would do if i'm being honest with you that's what i would do and you're still working jeff yes what's your household income

about 110.

all right well you've done really well um aside from the the retirement account which i think like john's saying if you sold that primary residence and kind of used that as part of the nest egg and started investing some of that or just sell the rental and cash flow the the property could you do that

if you just sold the rental and cash flowed the rest uh yeah we probably could i mean i like that plan because it sets you up for retirement i just don't want you to sink a whole bunch of money into this property and you've got nothing in retirement as you try to settle into retirement right right i think that the property i think my my first plan would be to um invest in

this this property this dirt and you know if i needed to sell it then i could sell it and probably make some money off of it sure but you know because the the price of the the uh the dirt around it is significantly higher than what i would be offering would be buying the other property from one thing i would check on that is make sure it's been perked

and all that it may be a reason why it's it's 33 less expensive

than the dirt around it yeah dude i don't have any problem with that if you want to if that's where you all want to end up you've worked really hard you're a millionaire you're you're pretty close just don't leverage yourself on this decision yeah you do this thing in cash man you got this way to go all right amir joins us in toronto canada amir welcome to the ramsey show hi how are you we're doing great how can we help i'm just calling regarding a question in a way it's two-parter but i'm currently

in university i'm 20 years old in my

third year and over the past year and a half almost two years i've been back at home because it's called it and my classes and everything have been online but next term starting january my classes uh will be in person and all

five courses that i'm planning on taking will be in person and i'm just trying to decide if it would be financially better for me to move to my the other city where my university is or to continue to stay at home what's the commute like right now uh it's it's a drive and it's about an hour and a half to two hours whoa and you're there like five days a week

i don't exactly know my schedule but i think it would be somewhere around three or five days can you cash flow the campus living you won't take on any debt can you do that uh yes yes i can i have uh savings and

i have the money for it it's just it's a high cost and i'm and the sort of degree or career that i'm pursuing is extremely expensive so i'm trying to save and budget as much as i can so here's what i'll tell you if you have the cash the research tells me that students who live on campus

have higher academic they do better on a host of metrics now that's not universal that's just that's taking an average of the students who live on campus versus those who commute there's something about meeting classmates you all start businesses together you form relationships together you learn how to do this you learn how to talk to your boss in the future all kinds of data that suggests if

you live on campus there's some some significant benefits i'll also say if you have to borrow to do that it is absolutely not worth it because there's also psychology of debt challenges and getting out and the accelerated anxiety and depression around i don't own my future a bank does

right so if you can cash flow this i don't have any problem with that at all man yeah that's going to be a question man that would be a great experience for you what was your second question we're running up against somebody yeah uh it's the the second part is that if i continue to stay at home i can pay off my debt but if i move back to school that people would be on pause yeah well listen

i don't want you to go into more debt we can work on the debt as soon as you graduate but it feels like moving on campus is still the best bet for you psychologically and financially right now cash flow man you got this this is the ramsay show

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if you're considering a career in technology i recommend bethel tech and i'm not alone here's what brendan said before bethel tech i was driving uber within four months of graduating i got a job paying 60 000 about two years after that i got a remote job that pays me a hundred and thirty thousand dollars all thanks to what i learned at bethel tech you could be next get started today at betheltech.net and get one thousand to twenty five hundred dollars off of your tuition again it's betheltech.net

ken coleman

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[Music] so let me ask you a question when you think of a millionaire what kind of job do you picture them having is it some kind of high-powered executive position like a vp or a ceo well here's the thing only 15 percent of millionaires actually have jobs like that the reality is that the top five careers for millionaires in america are engineer accountant teacher manager and

attorney that's just one of the surprising things our team found out when we conducted the largest study of millionaires ever done they talked to thousands of millionaires about who they are and how they achieve that goal and our study also made it clear that to become a millionaire you've got to invest wisely and a big part of that is getting good investing advice you need to work with an investing pro who can walk with

you and teach you about the options that are right for you our team recommends trustworthy vetted investing pros from all over the country that we call smart vester pros if you want to get in touch with one in your area just text the word invest to 33789

and start building wealth today that's invest two three three seven eight nine this is the ramsay show i'm george campbell joined today by dr john deloni and we are taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number brian joins us in toronto

brian welcome to the ramsay show hi guys thank you very much for having me absolutely we're doing great how can we help uh i'm a recent graduate i'm 22 years old and i graduated with my degree that freehand people awesome i decided to take the year off because i wanted to pursue a master's of public health next year but i wanted to be able to castle and i felt that i needed to develop my professional skills way to go i had an internship in toronto

um and i've secured that internship and when i thought there at the community health center uh the first words out of my supervisor's notes were you weren't my first choice uh management made me hire you my question for you guys and it just happened like two or three days ago my question for you guys is what can i do to salvage this relationship and make it to turn

this experience into a mature one that will help me realize my goal of strengthening my cv and my professional development dude this is a this is a fun situation john this is your super bowl so uh i'm just saying i may have had that happen to me a few times just saying i think i've been the second or third choice most of they ran through like 40 different personalities for they're like god just hard to loan

it then that's all we got left so dude i've been there a bunch brian um a couple of things i'd recommend you do first thing is brush this off like jay-z said brush your shoulders off dude you got to move on from this okay that in some ways that was somebody trying to weaponize like radical honesty

and they were trying to make a power play okay i'm not gonna give that a

second thought you know why because you got the job who cares who made you higher you got it

the second thing i'm gonna do is i'm going to reach out not because i'm trying to make a move or this is a good political thing no because i'm a person of dignity i'm gonna say hey i'd love to take you to coffee or can we set up some time and here's something i do with all of my bosses even at ramsey solutions i've done this i did

this with all of my other bosses is i would ask how do you like to get information are you a lunch person a coffee person do you not take lunches with different people um how do you if there's a crisis how do you want me to call you if i want to be as hospitable and i want to

be the employee that helps them be successful in their job and i take notes and then i say great i will go from there i've had bosses say i don't do lunches i do coffees with anybody who reports to me and i said great and i've had somebody say i like to do office in my office so if you'll go pick it up i'd love to meet with

you once a month but i've had it all over the place but you go first and here's the third magic thing are you ready this is gonna be the brand new news for you so i want you to hang on to your to your seat belts on this one okay do incredible work and be fun to be around the the gold standard is do your job

real well and don't be an idiot right if you do those two things and they still don't like you then your boss has a problem that you can't solve man and you're still going to leave this year or the next year or whatever this ends up turning into for you with some great experience you're going to learn how to navigate some of these wild political systems and you're gonna get some great leadership experience

and you're not gonna sacrifice your soul in the process man okay can you do that will you just go work real hard and be a person of character absolutely that helps a lot uh like i said it just kind of caught me off guard the first words out of your american league but so think about it this way thank you two kids just showed up to the school yard

and one of them was like hey man my name is is george and the other one just takes his shirt off and flexes real big and goes look at my muscles that's what just happened to you and dude like it's like cool muscles bro can we go play on the slides that's what happened don't give it a second thought just work really hard be a person a character

and you go first with how can you serve your supervisor man good for you congratulations i love that out of a sea of analogies you chose the shirt off flexing john there's so many that may have happened to me as well well brian i i've been in your shoes too i started at ramsey solutions as an intern and while the team was very loving there were people who just went ah

i don't buy it yeah this guy's not for me not my cup of tea and i had to prove them wrong not with a chip on my shoulder but just going hey i'm happy to be here i'm going to work my tail off i want to be a guy that people like to be around and here i am eight years later yeah so that's the best advice

i can give is prove them wrong and don't do it in a in a revengeful way but just kind of like all right that's cool man i'm 22 i get it i'm a young buck don't have a lot of experience i'm here to get experience yeah so uh three years from now he's probably gonna be he's gonna go man that that's that's my guy right there three years from now his resume will be on your desk

and then you can say wow yep good to see you yeah that's how it is man prove them wrong i love it all right nancy's in philadelphia nancy welcome to the ramsay show thank you so much i have been trying to find the answer this question hoping you guys can help me my question is around the long term care insurance portion of it from my understanding that that um world has changed quite drastically um my husband

and i are in our late 50s

and my husband was diagnosed with parkinson's about a year ago um we are current that's okay we're you know it's all good god was gonna bring us through all of that so i i feel very super optimistic and super hopeful um so my husband was laid off during coronavirus and for the coveted stuff he's still not got another job i was laid off for my job but i'm looking for a new job

we have zero debt the only thing we have left is um our mortgage to pay off which i'm going to do with gazelle like intensity in three years get get back on um but we're about 1.5 million and my question

is um worth and my question is do i need

long-term health care because i'm that's what i'm looking at for him and i don't know what to do at this point have you looked into what it would cost

for long-term care yes it's like fifteen thousand dollars a day if he is you know whether you know if we can't take him care of him at all anymore you're saying that it would pay out or what what does it cost you what are the premiums every year oh right okay so from what we've we've been through the um medical things we haven't been able we haven't gotten

it back whether first of all if they will even cover him there is nothing that i can find long-term care that will take us at the moment um there's the hybrid plans which i know dave is like a big node for the whole term life and the hybrid plants are super expensive like it's 20 for just for me it would be 20 000 um a year and that would be for like 10 years

but i'm not doing that i'd rather take that 20 000 and put it into investments and let that grow so i just didn't know for on his side what what i would do what i need to do for him yeah i'll let george answer the actual there's where to get it and what age and all that i think you're going to have some trouble getting long-term care with a

with that diagnosis diagnosis would be my guess unless you found somebody and it would be incredibly expensive if you do find it yeah there's

two options here you either self-insure and use your own money or you pay for this exorbitant premium and the only time that we would consider buying that hybrid policy is if you don't qualify for the traditional long-term care so while it's not ideal if it's what you can get and that makes more sense than you having to foot the bill and wipe your retirement account out i think it's worth looking into

so if i'm you i'm jumping onto ramseysolutions.com click on trusted pros and talk to one of our long-term care insurance trusted pros out there in your area they can walk you through all of your options and help you make an educated decision but i'm so sorry you're walking through this that's such a tough thing dude man he is lucky to have you running point for the rest of y'all's time together good for

you well nancy thanks for the call this is the ramsay show

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welcome back to the ramsay show i'm george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print and entree leadership podcast both podcasts you can find on the ramsey network i'm joined today by dr john delony you can also find his show the dr john delaney show on the ramsey network and you have been cranking out some shows john i see you in the studio next door taking people's calls helping people

and then we put it out there for the world to consume and hopefully they get something out of it yeah it's been wild man and what about yours your you're the fine prince crushing dude thank you it's been fun we are we're trying to uncover all of the the money traps out there and it turns out there's a lot we're like we'll have to save that one for season two

we got too much on the plate to try to uncover now we just released an episode all about bankruptcy is bankruptcy a quick fix for struggling americans is there a bankruptcy tsunami on the way

i talked to some experts in this field we hear some real stories of people who are on the brink it was fascinating stuff i learned so much you can go check that out on the fine print podcast feed some really good stuff there some things that are hard to hear and we try to bring some levity to it i did my best michael scott impression in the office where

he declares bankruptcy that's one of my favorite tv moments of my entire life it's gold like i try to keep track of the hardest i've ever laughed and that's in the top ten wow yeah so go go listen just for that there's also a dashboard confessional reference in the podcast so i sneak a lot of things in there just to make it fun for me john but we're having

i mean i'm just looking at these topics man you cover hard stuff like yeah taxed off the true cost of credit card rewards i only use them for the points george makes me feel so don't rile me up john not now bulletproof your money for the next pandemic there won't be a next pin there for sure will be sorry guys man by now pay later you know what's super cool buying a 20 t-shirt on payments john

they now you can do buy now pay later i'm not joking on pizza you can put a pizza on payments well it's just like putting it on a credit card right yeah but this is worse

it's because of the mentality around it of you know what why pay fifteen dollars for pizza today when i can pay four dollars for the next four months what are we doing here man wow it's crazy stuff bitcoin solves all of our problems credit scores oh so good

student loans are back and bankruptcy yikes yeah man we're not even done we're not even done in fact you are on our next episode on holiday spending and if you've been seeing the headlines the supply chain is basically saying like hey you're too late for holiday shopping it's too late the pumpkins just came out and you're already too late for christmas so a lot of good stuff coming your way we're doing one on diy investing

this year you get high fives yep high fives kids well i relate it to the jingle all the way with arnold schwarzenegger and sinbad fighting over the turbo man action figure on christmas eve and it's the best analogy i can think of i wish it was that fun that's how dark the holiday season has come that we're back to schwarzenegger and sinbad we're back baby 1996 jingle all

the way so it's a lot of fun we're having a good time helping people understand that if you follow the trends you will fall for the traps right do it old school do a grandma's way that's what this show's all about and you can just operate outside of the system buck the trends man that's what i'm all about and i know you are too you know what

i love i don't like bucking this i like sleeping at night i like that my christmas shopping is already done because they were telling us about supply chain issues a year ago and so me and my wife were like hey why don't we go ahead and take care of some of that life hack christmas a year ahead of time it's not even a life hack it's just like a math problem or a supply chain

i mean yeah some of this is like oh wait what am wait a minute halloween's five day god well john people are they they can't think that far ahead because they have so much going on in their life so much anxiety so much debt payments thing to keep up with social things and they can't even think about what's going on this weekend yeah and so we've got to get people to think ahead

let's be intentional man and that's what that's what we do is all about so we're happy to take your call it's a free one triple eight eight two five five and check out dr john dolone on the next episode on holiday spending you help us create some boundaries with family around the holidays super helpful stuff that is one of the biggest things to face so a lot of good stuff happening around here at ramsey solutions we're going to tom in miami florida tom welcome to

the ramsay show

hey guys how you doing doing great how can we help so i uh i know the father husband inside me what i want to do i just need some guidance long story short i have a uh 2021 chevy suburban that is um almost paid off i have probably about 10 grand on it i could turn around and sell it given the used car market for about 70. and

given the financial situation of our family it would really help with i haven't done a very good job uh leading our family financially um we're we're getting better but um you know it would put us and that's the only debt that we have is that as the rest of the vehicle

i'm i've been talking to my wife about selling it and that'll give us a fully funded emergency fund i'm severely behind on retirement to the point of i haven't started yet i'm 37 years old um

and with the scope of the economy and everything and just with you know everything going on i feel like uh you know it's my duty that i gotta i gotta get this turned around somehow my wife loves the car granted i

mean it's it's a beautiful vehicle but we have three kids a two-year-old a

four-year-old almost six-year-old and i can imagine now i'm neurotic about it it's causing me a lot of stress that the car is going to get destroyed and the value's not going to be in it and so i'm just i don't know what to do

that's my question well number one dude um i this is this is one of the this is this i've taken a few brave calls today we recorded several episodes of my show earlier today and i talked to a brave man and you two are also brave you're brave for looking at one scary place and that's the mirror

and saying um i need to make some changes i got three little ones and i just i'm looking at the news and the world's changing and i gotta do i gotta do better dude i wanna high-five you i'd hug you if you were here i'm proud of you man that's a hard place to start is in the mirror so good for you number two it sounds like you've crushed a whole bunch of other debt is that right yeah we've we've done well

we we actually we bought a house in 2015 and we were very fortunate to accrue a lot of equity in it um hey i want to stop you real quick you know what you're really you're really good at when things are bad you take the blame and when things go well yeah you say we

or you say we just got really lucky on this one i suck but we got lucky i want you to own the good and the bad okay

yeah yeah is that a fair trade

yep okay so let's start owning the good stuff so you bought a house in 2015 the market appreciated you made a great purchase and then what uh we moved into a brand new home which were blast beyond belief um

you know and yeah i mean we've we've done some upgrade you know we had to put a fence around it you know so the kids weren't flying the neighbors pond and you know but we we you know we depleted pretty much a lot of the equity with the down payment of the home and you know all the other stuff that we had to do to it and you cash flow yeah okay yeah so to get to your question um

i don't have a love affair with cars george i know you do so maybe you're i'm just kidding you don't either me and john both drive trash cars that are worth a tenth of what that suburban so if it's me yes i'm with you i'd sell that car i would go buy a great highlander something that i could tote three kids around in that also i could grow with for

the next decade and then i'm setting everybody up the other side of this conversation is less about my wife loves the car that that that's okay those disagreements happen throughout marriages all time i'm more concerned that i don't know that she's heard your heart yet does she know that you are scared

um yeah

of okay here's what i want you to do

i i have a tendency a lot of my friends have a tendency to have these conversations and their math problems look at this we could sell this pay off this buy this and be done with this i want you to sit down when you take your wife out for a meal and i want you to look her across the table and say i'm scared about our financial situation i'm ashamed of how i've how i've led us here

and i want you and me to be together in this making the next steps and i want to sell this car and it's going to bring me peace will you join me with this

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the housing market is hot and your house could be worth a lot more today than it was when you bought it that means your old insurance policy might not give you enough coverage anymore and what's the point of paying for insurance that won't swing the cost to repair or rebuild your home now some policies will automatically raise your coverage to cover rising home prices or material costs

but not all of them if your home's value has gone up or it's been over a year since you checked your homeowner's policy you need to talk to one of our endorsed local providers these independent agents will compare multiple policies to find the best coverage for your home in your budget that's why they are ramsay trusted because they'll put you first period text the word home to 33789 to talk with a trusted home insurance pro today that's home to three three seven eight nine i'm george campbell ramsey personality joined today by dr john delony

and it's a free call triple eight eight two five five two two five celeste joins us in phoenix arizona celeste welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you so much absolutely how can john and i help so my husband and i recently crossed kind of a big financial milestone that we're

excited about but also now have a whole new set of questions that we're trying to figure out in short we're trying to determine whether it might make sense to press pause on our retirement savings

for one year so that we can instead front load our daughter's 529 um for college savings

so you you got through baby step three this fully funded emergency fund and then you went oh gosh our daughter's about to go to school and we haven't saved should we stop investing for retirement the situ i'm sorry to enroll too the situation is a little different than that so first she's three so we have some time oh good um i thought she was like 17. yeah

no and and we've we have been saving we have about 25 000 in her retirement i'm sorry in her fort 529 account

um you're doing great we've

yeah what makes you think you're not on track um i think when when i started doing the math and looking at calculators we got to the point that i kind of realized every dollar we put in now will be worth like two when she's in high school and we're trying to think about whether

theoretically you might be looking to retire around the same time that she starts college so we're trying to figure out if front loading you know putting putting more into her 529 now so that we might

not have to put as much in later would put us in a stronger position just from an expense perspective when she's in

college well i'll say i don't want you to pause investing i think you guys are doing great this is not a dire situation i mean she's got 15 years before she's even going to explore these college options you already have 25 000 saved it sounds like you're gonna have well over six figures as this money grows over the next 15 years is that right

we hope so um i think you know we're also concerned about these crazy inflation rates for college specifically

you know it looks like it's been well over five percent over the last few years but it it it makes me feel calmer to hear you well i don't want you losing sleep at night over inflation because your daughter is going to have a great head on her shoulders and she's going to focus on what college she can afford 15

years from now and there's gonna be options out there i lived in that world i am

i'll just tell you i have an eleven-year-old and a six-year-old and i'm not front loading mine um the the year over year five percent seven percent three and a half percent tuition hikes that have been going on for the last 25 or 30 years cannot continue

this college will be a million dollar i mean it won't be a practical investment so i would not get over out of your skis don't overthink it can i just have you guys been doing this for a long time you all been running and running and running for a season

yeah pretty hard and you know i mentioned at the beginning we have sort of a milestone that we've crossed which is we've kind of looked up and just realized we we've got almost 1.2 million

in our retirement account incredible part of what's driving it too thank you yeah we we feel really good about that and honestly it just it just kind of happened without our even realizing sure well y'all are doing all the right things and can so here's what i want to shift your perspective you you know have you heard of dave talk about gazelle intensity

a gazelle is running from a lion for its life and that's how he wants people to attack that he wants people to get off that system like your life depends on it you can run into some problems psychologically spiritually physically if you continue running like that for the rest of your life and you guys crossed a magic milestone and it's not magic you worked your butts off

and you got here that way i want y'all to stop for a minute you're not running for your lives anymore and i want you to breathe and have peace and i want you to enjoy this little girl i want you to do your regular investing y'all are millionaires i want you to live your life debt-free and i want you to put the normal amount of money in

this 529 understanding that either college is gonna be a million dollars and they're gonna have to figure something else out or the colleges are gonna have to re-regulate themselves which i think is what's gonna happen and y'all guys are doing a great job

you're doing a great job and you don't have to run for your life anymore

thanks for that are you still there okay there you are you're so taken aback yeah just just processing some people

myself included get so obsessed with sprinting and sprinting that we are going to get to the end of our lives and have a great retirement we're going to realize we missed it and that's why dave's so intentional about baby steps four five and six which is make sure you live too right be intentional about your life but make sure you're living too y'all aren't running for your lives anymore you're just not celeste how old are you two

uh 43 you're 43 and you are millionaires you are doing amazing yeah congratulations and you have a three-year-old that you already have 25 000 saved for for college we have people calling in that are way older with kids way older who are a lot less freaked out than you are so i just want to affirm that you guys are doing so so well and like john said take a breather when's the last time you guys did something fun for yourselves oh i mean we're pretty good about that good i just want to make sure because i know it can be so hard when you're just running a gun and to go no no this money could be used over here we could fund the college if we don't go on vacation this year and this is a marathon and you guys are doing great you're going to retire with multiple millions of dollars if you just keep following the baby steps like you've been doing keep investing the 15 percent build up the 529 do you guys have a paid for uh property or are you working on the mortgage after this no we we have not paid off our mortgage yet so that'll be that'll be next great so i want you to keep the other goals in mind too it's it's not all about funding college we love to say that there's a hundred percent chance you will retire there's a 50 50 chance your daughter goes to college and so we want to make sure that you're taken care of first you've got the mask on before you help your daughter out and you're already doing that you're going to pay off the mortgage uh probably the next few years at this point based on how well you guys are doing what's your household income uh about this year it'll be about 250.

250. oh my gosh i'm not worried about

your daughter going to college debt-free i mean you could cash flow this at this point right just out of your budget if you needed to um so you guys are doing great and in 15 years guess what you're gonna have a paid for house if you're doing at the ramsey way and you're not going to let your daughter go to college with student loans and she's going to be raised up in that house with amazing parents who have worked so hard to leave a different legacy for her

that's the plan fingers crossed no you don't need fingers crossed you're there that's what people do when they're hoping you don't need to hope let me say this in a way hopefully you can understand you're a millionaire

a millionaire and on average return

which we know things are like shaking a snow globe every seven years it doubles so if you're 1.2 then that's 2.4 and that's 4.8 million and that's

just when your daughter decides to go to college y'all are okay you're more than okay you're kicking but at that at 4.8 in a paid for house you'll be able to cashflow college and retire and do whatever you want to congratulations you're crushing it so proud of you way to go celeste that puts this hour of the ramsey show in the books our thanks to producer james childs austin selby handling all of

the phone screening today kelly daniels uh acting associate producer i guess in the back there and dr john deloney thanks for being a great co-pilot on this wild ride in you america for listening in we can't do this without you we're thankful for you checking out the show today it's free call triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll be back with you before you know

it

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hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to thermzyshow.com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studio it's the ramsey show where america hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money and your relationships and your whatever i'm george campbell ramsey personality joined today by dr john deloney host of the dr john deloney show john how long did it take to come up with that name the doctor probably too many hours

the amount of hours is embarrassing and we don't even talk about it anymore i had some cool like names for the show after old heavy metal bands that they didn't go anywhere it was a lot of discussion didn't uh didn't really go anywhere it's fine it's a solid name yeah it's good strong hey but give us a call triple eight eight two five five two two five we're talking about everything

and hey we got a lobby full of smart vester pros from all over the country so good to see you wave everybody it's great to see you they're like kids in a candy shop right now wandering around here it's so great they are pumped up my kids in a cookie store because they're actually our cookies out there but it's good to see everybody that's a good thing to to note that

we do have free cookies free mugs free coffees all the combinations that's right we love it just south of nashville all right open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five zak kicks off this hour in huntington west virginia zach welcome to the ramsay show hello hey how can we help

okay yeah so i'm calling because um

right now i'm pursuing several pastorate positions and these positions they come with uh

personages uh you know the house on the on the church um and i was wanting to know what you thought my wife is thinking that we should just use a housing allowance and buy a house wherever we're at but i'm not so sure about that because if i can get the personage it'll it'll come with utilities paid and i won't have to worry about any financial decisions

but my wife thinks that it's it's not secure enough that it fall right out underneath of us so i was wanting to know if you thought that i should just go if we should just go for the parsonage you know of the free house with the utilities paid and you know all that the stuff that comes with it so i was just curious what you guys thought about that

i i'll give you my perspective george you hop in here too um first thing is give me a picture of your of your total financial picture

so well right now i'm a teacher but if i take this i will i will uh you know be a full-time pastor um

i owe about 50 000 okay what kind of debt is that it's student loans from uh seminary okay

um and what's this what's this pastor position going to pay you about 40 000. okay 40 000 plus a house

plus a house okay with no utilities right right so they pay all your your expenses when it comes to housing yes okay so you have a picture of a house where y'all are gonna crash and your wife has a picture of a home where you don't crash it's where you live in a season when my wife and i owed six figures she's a a doctor too we have a bajillion degrees

in our house too much too many degrees in our house we sold our home and we moved into a residence hall apartment at a university where i worked and we were faculty and residents and we did that for a year and i took on two extra jobs and she

was a rock star professor and we paid off a whole bunch of money

and we had about a year that we could do that and so if i'm you i would sit down and say i dug us into a hole 50 000 in seminary loans and this is a

way to clear that up in 18 months or so

and i would let her know hey our plan is to become debt free we're gonna let's live in this personage and we're gonna have no bills we have no electric no internet no nothing and we are as a family we're gonna suck this up for 18 months or 24 months max tell your bosses at the church we're going to do this and then we're going to expect

the housing allowance on the back end and then you'll go buy yourselves a place but that's what i would do and that way you can sit down and say hey we can crash for a destination and in our home

me and my wife and my my son we made those little chains that you make out of construction paper i mean we set it up this is short term for us we can do anything for short term and then we went and bought a house that we could become a forever house right not a forever house but a whole a home that's what we said set up a home

so that's how i would approach it yeah i love that mentality what's the housing allowance if you took that um you know it varies from church to church you know uh but about like 1500 a month okay and like john said if you could pay off your debt stay at the parsonage and then could you take that housing allowance down the line if you agreed to yeah

it would definitely cover you know stuff because i'm in west virginia housing prices are really low here there you go you know yeah and so yeah you one of two things is going to happen you're going to be debt free you're going to have accomplished something together you're going to have sucked it up you're going to be able to um say look at what we did or you're going to realize man living partners is kind of awesome

we call somebody else when something's broken and now that we are debt-free we can just start socking away this this living money and continue saving and saving and saving at one point uh some point buy a house with cash right but but again put it put a short-term lease on this deal i shouldn't say lease i'm on the ramsey show put a short-term leash h and um

then go from there and is your wife going to be working at all zach

it's possible probably part time if so she's an engineer so okay that's great well i'm thinking if she can come in and help with with this shovel to get more income coming in and you guys could clean up this debt even faster and get her to that dream even faster you clean up this debt you'll get a down payment for a house get an emergency fund and get out of there man it's great good for you

thanks for thanks for the call zach way to go man interesting scenario with the parson it's a fun word to say number one but very interesting scenario where they're paying for you basically you can live here rent free and you experience something like that in some of your previous uh careers where they're paying for this and so we've got to make a financial decision what does this mean for our future housing

because i think what the wife is seeing is hey we don't own this we're not building towards anything with them paying for our rent well and you don't feel secure because somebody else owns your home right and we get that call from renters a lot we get that call from hey if i just sold my house and moved in with my parents me and my five kids

and my wife moved in with my parents for a season right and i i've done it and for a season it was magical

and i say magical it was hard but in my case we learned that we could live a lot smaller than we thought and every house we've bought since then has been actually small i mean we ended up changing our whole trajectory of our life we got rid of a bunch of stuff we live a lot lighter and so we learned a lot about ourselves and we paid off everything

and um it set us up for the next several decades of my life because we we made a hard decision there in the middle it was not a two or three year decision right it was hard with a little one and two working people et cetera et cetera so it's meant to catapult you through the baby steps faster a short-term plan with an exit strategy that's when

it can be applied we wrote down the plan we were very clear and then we executed that plan right brilliant that's the way to do it get rid of the step man this is the ramsay show [Music]

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[Music]

for most homeowners being financially ready to sell a house comes down to one thing equity now equity is a jargony

word but all it means that your home is worth more than what you owe the bank for it and since home values have been on the rise for the last several years many folks have built up you guessed it equity how much of the home you owe you own so if you've been thinking about selling your home the first step is to figure out if equity is on your side

because you want to make money on the sale of your home right if your equity looks good it might be time to go ahead and get your home on the market and that's when you need to find an experienced real estate agent to help the right real estate agent does way more than just schedule showings they know how to accurately price your home get it in front of hungry buyers

and help you navigate negotiations that way you won't leave any money on the table to connect with a top performing agent check out our nationwide network of endorsed local providers or elp agents

elps are the best real estate agents in your area who've earned the right to be ramsey trusted our agents are committed to excellent service and to putting your financial goals first if you want to check them out just go to ramseysolutions.com agent you can find a trusted pro in your area that's ramseysolutions.com agent i'm george campbell host of the fine print on and entre leadership podcast joined today by dr john dolone we're taking your calls triple eight eight two five five two two five lisa joins us in minneapolis lisa welcome to

the ramsey show hi thanks for having me absolutely how can we help yeah so i'm calling because um i'm recently married and um also recently graduated from law school congratulations huge a lot of life changing thank you did you pass the bar yes i did yeah congrats i know they just went out all over congratulations yes they did thank you appreciate it um so i have um 60 000 of debt from law

school alone yep how much from undergrad none none excellent yep my dad is a very large proponent of living debt free so my upbringing was very much those structure around the principles that um ramsay teaches so very cool fortunate in that sense um but my husband is still in grad school and he has another year and a half i'll graduate in december of 2022.

um and so my question for you guys is should we focus on paying off my debt now that you

know i mean granted the government isn't requiring us to pay off anything right now but i know we should be or should i

be paying cash for the rest of his schooling that he has so the option is he goes into debt to continue grad school or you start paying off your loans right stop the bleeding yes

okay so pay his school keep cash yeah we want to minimize the damage here going forward for your debt your debt payments so as long can you cash flow the rest of his school yes great and as soon as he's out uh

does he have any debt so far

like 20 000 from last trimester okay so that puts you guys at about 80 grand total in debt and that's all student loans yep okay yes let's cash flow the rest of his grad school and december 2022 he graduates january 2023 it's game on

we're going gazelle intense with hopefully amazing salaries what do you think your uh combined salary will be at that point um probably over 200 it's hard to know

if um he'll be a chiropractor so it's hard to know sure as he's getting minneapolis it's the most saturated market right now so if you if you're making 200 and you've got 80 dollars in debt that debt is gone in under a year yeah yeah

okay get it get it get it you're gonna take cases on the side too he's gonna see people in the garage they're gonna do whatever you gotta do get that get rid of that and then you're basically a on a two and a half year plan to be completely debt free and then you're off to the races and now you're making two three hundred grand in a few years with no debt

and you guys are young how old are you two twenty three and twenty four oh yeah dude congratulations this is what i like to hear way to go lisa we're so proud of you cheering you on as he finishes grad school and you guys get this debt paid off thanks for the call nick joins us in annapolis maryland nick welcome to the ramsay show thank you how can

we help so i a few weeks ago managed to screw my car up pretty bad i got it mostly fixed up but sounds pretty bad so i'm not sure how long it has left in it and i was looking at the used car market and with everything so inflated it feels like it might almost be better just buy new so i was wondering uh what i should do in my situation um a couple of questions here

so have you taken it to get it looked at see about fixing it yeah i got a i got it fixed up a good bit paid a good bit to do that and uh it still seems like it's probably going to be on its last legs pretty soon what makes you think that um sound steering's pretty bad uh

it was already a little old and okay kind of a beater to begin with okay sometimes i have been guilty of in my own life i start finding problems with things because i want to change and especially after i get in a wreck i have this feeling the car is not any good anymore it's not safe anymore or i'm just mad at it or i just paid a big repair bill

so i hate it and so that's why i'm digging in like is it are you done with the car are you sick of it are you annoyed by it does it make you mad up to me get in it because you just had to spend 5 000 bucks to fix it or is it really going to fall apart on you um to answer your other question i think

it comes down to cash and what you how long you're gonna hang under a car um i'm i'm i'm in the market to buy a used car right now and i can say that out loud because my wife doesn't listen to this show and it's for her christmas present and so i'm buying it early and i'll be buying it the next couple of days and i got cash

and i'm planning on buying a car that i'm going to drive that we're going to drive as a family for a long long time hopefully for a

decade or so and so the the

the higher price right now i it will make itself up over the next decade i'm not worried about that if you're gonna buy a car and then sell it in two years and sell it in two years and sell it two years yeah it'd be a terrible time to buy any kind of car right um what is your even though you think it's gonna be less buying a new car well

i don't know i will say this i've heard some bananas deals i haven't seen the numbers that there's dealer incentives for getting rid of new cars and then you can actually walk in a dealer buy a new car for cheaper than you can buy a used car in some situations especially when it comes to trucks and things i don't know if that's true or not that's all anecdotal what

i would tell you is don't do anything on any sort of payment

do you have cash to go buy a car i need to i would definitely need to finance yeah absolutely not hang on to your car man so what's your what's your financial picture how much money do you have in cash in savings um so in cash in my savings i think i have about eight grand today um okay uh 8 grand in 401k as well do you

have debt um only the house oh just a house

okay yeah i bought a house a few months ago right before graduation so you don't have any debt except the mortgage and you've got pretty much you're basically kind of in this baby step three maybe land around there is this three to six months of expenses if you add that up yeah yeah definitely okay so until that car actually goes to put and it's not an emergency because we kind of know this thing's on its way out if i'm you i'm going to start to create a sinking fund very quickly where i go all right every month i'm going to throw a few hundred bucks at least into a separate savings account so that when this card does go i'm ready to use whatever money i have to buy whatever car i can get for that amount of money so it becomes a simple math equation instead of well i could get this 25 000 car new and it's actually a good deal because use they go for 26.

that's just some backwards math there and i don't want you financing like john talked about so can you create a sinking fund right now i mean you must have a little bit of margin in your baby steps now that you don't have any debt yeah um i think i have about 2 000 a month that doesn't go into like so wiggle room you've got two grand are you investing 15 into retirement before that um right now i think it's doing five percent uh i just got the emergency fund back up so i need to start doing the 15.

yeah let's get that investing up to 15. and uh do you have kids uh no i'm 22.

money after that 15 that's going into a car savings fund and that's going to be my a1 is to get a car that i can afford in cash that is your next goal nick and in 10 months you got 20 000 in an account boom now you can go buy yourself a used car that's not gonna be fancy pants but it's gonna be safer than when you got don't borrow money on a depreciating asset don't be fancy pants john said it best this is the ramsay show

[Music]

[Music]

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means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use promo code ramsey to get the best deal rules and restrictions apply today's question comes from caleb in scotland did i do that right that was a pretty rough accent but continue it wasn't great

it's fine today's question comes from caleb william wallace in scotland better says my friends have gotten caught up in the bitcoin market craze and are making a lot of money trading i know your company says it's not a secure investment but i have to admit i'm intrigued by the money they're making is it a good idea to put some of my emergency fund in bitcoin and see how fast i can grow my savings george you are a bitcoin expert oh my gosh john okay so we did an episode on on the fine print all about bitcoin we called it is bitcoin your ticket to wealth could bitcoin be your ticket 12.

and what made me laugh at the end there was to see how fast i can grow my savings and in my head i thought you mean to see how fast you can lose your savings that's that's the question i want you to ask it's a risk problem john i know you're you're big on this risk analysis and what we found with bitcoin is that we're not against bitcoin i'm not mad at

you if you want to put some money in bitcoin but this is not your 15 retirement we're not banking on this money to live off of now if you want to do some fun money if you're debt-free you're already investing you've got your life taken care of you want to put some fun money into bitcoin that's fine have some fun with it but treat it like entertainment

because right now that's what it is and so no it's not a good idea to put your emergency fund in bitcoin because guess what when there's an emergency you're gonna need that money and it needs to be liquid you need to be able to pull that out of the account and know it's going to be there and with the drop of a dime or elon musk saying something on saturday night live your emergency fund could vanish evaporates that frightens me

so don't do that man put it put your emergency fund in a money market account and a high yield savings account and keep it there part for safety this is not where you want to play with investing and for those of you who want to use bitcoin as a hedge the dollar's all going down so we're gonna have please don't please please do just a rudimentary risk assessment on how how currency works don't do that don't do that love yourself more than that right that's all i'm going to say that's

it that's it caleb thanks for the question all the way across many ponds to scotland yeah that's fun and we

either i wish you would have called in and i could have heard that amazing scottish accent all right open phones this hour triple eight eight two five five two two five allen is in houston texas home of the john d'alone welcome to the ramsay show allen hello gentlemen thank you for taking my call alan what is tonight what is tonight you know something i'm actually out of town right now oh boy oh alan i'm guessing there's a big game john just

first game of the world series that the astros are going to win but whatever go ahead with your question directly into the phone we had you nice and clear there for a second yeah okay so [Music] uh unfortunately last month my father passed away oh man

i'm so sorry yeah it's it's still hard yeah absolutely man how do you pass away

cancer cancer i'm sorry he he fought the cancer for two years

when the doctors two years ago gave him eight weeks to live so he did good he's a warrior that's right man yeah dad was always a big time fighter

he he did everything great he really did it's awesome man so how can we help today so i stand to inherit between some

in the neighborhood of about five to six hundred thousand okay i have been a truck driver for 22 years now i could actually with that kind of money

buy my own truck and trailer i would then stand to profit probably

about an extra 50 maybe 75 000 a year

up above what i'm making now okay do you think that something like that would be a good investment or just putting half a million dollars into a good mutual fund and just let letting it do its job down well the the latter with you starting your own business is a whole lot more work i mean if you put 600 000 into a good growth stock mutual fund

and it grows at 10 percent uh with a rate of return that's 60 grand a year right there which is what you said you'd be making profit from the business now if you want to start a business because that's your heart and that's where your passion lies then i think you start this business uh what's your whole financial picture look like do you have any debt currently uh about 28 000 on

the car loan and

that's it okay and do you have a mortgage no i would like to eventually buy a house okay so that was my question is what are the what's the whole picture so we can really look at your goals uh holistically and go all right if a house is your goal maybe we do that before we start the business and get into the into the trucking game so you're you're renting right now yes okay

if i'm you just this is just brushing over it i'm gonna go all right i'm paying off this debt a1 this 28 000 car loan is gone as soon as you get this money followed by i'm gonna pay cash for my first house and do that as a way to honor my dad and the legacy he left well that's really important to me actually in fact the day

i get the money um taking 4 100 hours and pledging it to

his synagogue because that's what he would want to do with it awesome yeah because his wishes are most important right now i just want to make them proud yeah yeah um when when do you expect to receive a check um it's going through probate right now

okay um so i already received about 150

from an inherited 401k

and the rest of it i added another 2 2

50 i would say probably before end of the year and then there's another 200 and change

invested in a building that me and my brother now own outright okay so it depends on when we sell that and all that stuff so here's what i want you to do i want you to do nothing for six months

okay okay and this is the advice that i was given by the guy who who trained me in crisis response and

it's been wisdom that i've passed on over and over nothing will make sense for six months and you're gonna think it does one day and it's not the next day you clearly loved your old man he was an awesome guy

he left you a legacy he left you with with you and your brother with financial security and you're gonna be grieving this and letting this settle for a season so i don't want you to sprint off and say oh i got to go do this gotta go do that i want to spend this money before before you even have the check in your hand i want that money to get to

you if it's coming in different investments you may want to hang on to some of those investments and not cash them out or you may have to take um graduated withdrawals from them depending on what kind of accounts they are so clearly sit with down with the smartvestor pro to walk through what you've got um but i want you to hang on to this for six months dream a little bit think about

it a little bit and maybe i want to get out of trucking all together or i love what i do man it's always been my dream like george said i've wanted to have my own business forever actually i just want to buy a small house and settle down for a season and become a local driver right it's all those things um it just gives you some space to grieve some space to make some of those decisions does that sound okay yes

it does awesome very cool we'll be thinking about you and your family praying for you and what a cool legacy that your old man left huh

yes he did he did he he did very well in life in business but the most important thing too was his family that's all that mattered was family family family incredible incredible thank you so much for the call brother yeah thanks for sharing that story that's awesome john i love to hear situations like that where it's not easy but it makes it easier when you're not left with a financial mess

and instead there's a financial blessing on the other side yeah it's such a gift to be able to say what do we want to do not what do we have to do you've got options that's one of the best legacies you can leave well so financial financial legacies are great and so i just imagine my kids sitting around saying man that guy loved me i can't think of anything more incredible wow love

it very cool awesome this is the ramsay show

[Music]

[Music]

our scripture of the day comes from 2nd chronicles 15 7. but as for you

be strong and do not give up for your work will be rewarded christopher columbus said you can never cross the ocean until you have the courage to lose sight of the shore

amazing we had quotes back then john who's writing these down 1450s yeah i'm calling i don't know about that one he's calling the bluff on columbus there all righty well hey i'm george campbell ramsey personality host of the fine print podcast and entree leadership podcast joined today by the amazing dr john deloney host of the dr john dolone show you can find all those shows on the ramsay network uh wherever

you find podcasts all the stuff john's show is on mondays wednesdays fridays youtube podcast it's everywhere that's right i can't get away from it john i pull up my youtube and it's all john dolone clips you've taken over yeah see i have this um it's cool my job is every day i don't get to just do a series like you do oh that hurts that hurts john

the amount of work we put into our beautiful narrative storytelling podcast let's do ten episodes and call it good for the year we're whittling away with a little pick to make a perfectly crafted 30-year podcast you found a glitch in the matrix so congratulations i have to show up every day to record my show so it's cool man hurtful it's good well uh it's been a fun ride guys me

and john clearly uh two two hours and 40 minutes is our limit together before john james is about to pop in i actually don't show up every day either so it's okay well the way to avoid all of this is to go to the phone lines john that's where we do our best our best work and nina is on the line in pensacola florida nina welcome to

the ramsay show thank you for having me absolutely how can john and i help um i have a question about trying to minimize the accumulation of interest on my um on my loans okay

on student loans yes sir i have um i have federal student loans i also have a private loan and they have credit cards as well okay

so you want to minimize interest what was the the thinking behind minimizing interest just you you don't want to pay more than you have to pay

yeah um ideally i would love to be able

to start paying it off but realistically i'm in an intensive nursing program right now and i don't graduate until after the summer of next year um so i wouldn't be able to start working to start paying it off so um i

actually tried to transfer my credit card debt um to get zero apr for at least a year

try to get that interest down i don't know about loan consolidation if that would help but try to get the interest down are you continuing to take on debt as you finish this program i am um i am finding ways to pay for it um as the semesters come i'm not taking any more federal loan that i'm not taking out any private loans at the moment so what are you taking out to pay for this

um the money that's been coming in from covid

like um the school's been sending me money for clothes like um relief funds and then

everything that supplement my parents have been helping me to cover it yeah okay well the interest has been paused with the student relief um extension being in place until january 31st so february 1st payments are back on interest back on and so the best thing you can do is pay off your loans while you can right now but it sounds like you don't have the cash flow to do that as you continue to finish this program

so the only way to minimize interest on your loans other than refinancing getting a lower interest is to actually pay off the debt as quickly as possible and so that's why we recommend what's called the debt snowball and it sounds counterintuitive because what we say is hey ignore the interest rate you're just going to list the debts from smallest to largest the balances you're going to pay minimum payments on all of those debts except for

the smallest debt and on that debt you're going to attack it with a vengeance with everything you've got with side job money any income you're going to shave your expenses down to bare bones and attack that debt because once you do that you free up a payment you are making on that debt and you use that on the next debt and the next debt and the next debt

so that is truthfully the best way to minimize interest is to get rid of the debt as fast as possible

all right since you're still in school and i do know a special medical intensives whether it's nursing or nurse practitioners or you know you're in your clinical rotations in med school whatever i understand those are those take up your your entire life you're working 10 to 12 hour 14 hour shifts and then you're doing class work at night and then you're starting up and doing that over again your goal right now is to get through school with no more debt stop the bleeding okay put a put a plug

in that in that drain so the water doesn't keep coming out trying to fill up the drain doesn't matter if i mean trying to fill up the sink doesn't matter if the if it's just all draining right back at the bottom so stop the the drain stop the bleeding i'm going to use as many metaphors i'm just going to use 30 of them in this one a lot of medical analysis too many

but stop that and then when you get done with school you're gonna have to make a commitment to yourself that you're gonna do what george just said put those debts in in order smallest to largest and you're gonna start knocking them off and you're not gonna buy a new car you're not gonna go buy a new house with your big nursing salary you're gonna just spend that

first year that first two years getting out of debt and you're gonna set yourself up for a lifetime of peace okay good for you thanks for the call nina we are going to selena in salt lake city selena welcome to the ramsay show hi thank you for taking my call absolutely how can john and i help okay i just sold my house today earlier today congratulations thank

you thank you i'm currently i moved out of state recently moved to utah so i'm currently paying a higher rent than my mortgage was but i sold my house earlier today and with the money i intend to pay off all of my student loan debt which is about thirty nine thousand i love it i'm going to take five thousand dollars add it to my emergency fund which will bring that up to fifteen thousand

and then i'll have forty thousand left over and so my question is what do i do with that because i i don't have any car payments credit card debt um i don't have a mortgage um and i don't want to just put it in a bank and have it sit there that's awesome so selling this house has catapulted you from baby step one to four pretty quickly yes where are

you gonna live um currently i'm in oregon utah i moved here for work from nebraska but are you just renting an apartment yes renting a town home uh the market here is actually worse for maybe a a not very nice condo or townhome they run about like four hundred thousand wow we're out for out for outdated condos that need all new flooring and on a busy street

and a corner spot so that's and it sounds like your next goal so you you'll be investing 15 with this new job i assume into retirement i'm currently at 8 and that's another thing because of my age i don't know if you know if i should do the traditional or the roth um i struggle with that um but currently i'm investing eight percent into my how old does

it work

i'm 42. okay i mean you can definitely

connect with a smartvestor pro in that area to go hey what is my best bet based on when i want to retire what my goals are but on the money side once you've got i would bump that up to 15 regardless of if it's in traditional roth don't let that paralyze you in your decision-making process but once you've got that it sounds like your next goal is to plant roots

there and maybe get a house um not necessarily my daughter has two years of high school left and so i i just there's a lot of uncertainties right now so you might be moving again in a few years i'm i'm i might be and so i'm

thinking whether it's buy a house and you know either here somewhere else i'd like to possibly have that money work for me somehow but i just don't know where how you know do i open up my own vanguard account and do a you know standard s p do i dump it in my retirement which you know what i wouldn't be able to use later um i think beyond

the 15 it comes down to hey do i want to save up for the down payment in the future whether it's in salt lake city area or elsewhere and you can park that money in a high yield savings account and get a half percent if it's going to be long term if it's if you're talking three four five plus years you could put it in some index funds in vanguard

you could put it in some mutual funds to let it grow at a higher rate but if it's going to be short term i wouldn't go investing into the market yet especially if you don't know what the next few years looks like okay so short term would be if i'm not going to less than four or five years yeah one to two years yeah if we're talking one to two years that's too short for me to be jumping in

the market but if it's longer than that if you're talking three to five you can park that in some index funds or mutual funds and let that grow thanks so much for the call it's been a fun hour john our thanks to james child's producer austin selby on the phone screening kelly daniel associate producer and you america thanks so much for listening until next time spend wisely save intentionally

and give generously this is the ramsay show [Music]

hey it's kelly associate producer and phone screener for the ramsay show if you would like to do your debt free scream live on the show make sure you visit theramsieshow.com and register we would love for you to come to nashville and tell dave your story

[Music]

you

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## 214. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 23, 2024)


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[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today from the Ramsey Network it's the

Ramsey Show I'm Jade warsha next to me is Dr John deloney and we're taking your

calls we're talking about your life and your money we're helping people build wealth do work that they love and have

amazing relationships this is a live

show you can give us a call if you want to call in the number is 888 825 5225

and we'll try and get you on the line and try to hook you up with the advice that you need all right John you ready to do this let's go let's go straight to the phone lines we've got Jody and Milwaukee Wisconsin what up

Jody Hi how are you doing great how can

we help today I well I'm oh I can't

believe I called in and I'm doing this but anyways um I am in a very um

emotionally abusive emotionally and

financially abusive relationship um I've

been with him for 18 years we have a nine-year-old daughter and I need out

and

I I I start trying to figure out plans

and I like we'll research this and

research that and then I'll put this in order and then I and um I become this

paralyzed Whirlpool of this is I you

know what I'm saying like I could probably help other people but my brain

and I'm just emotionally exhausted too so I don't think that helps um what what

happened Jody something happened that said you said this is enough what

happened

um you know I think I have um a blood

clotting disorder and I had a blood clot

um at the beginning of the summer a a deep vein blood clot in my leg um and

they are incredibly painful um also

potentially life-threatening I've had a couple of ones I had one in my pelvis after my pregnancy that um came close to

damaging my heart I had some in my

things like that so it's a really serious thing and um I am sitting on the

recliner and he comes home from work and

starts screaming at me to get off my

lazy butt that I'm on his chair and blah

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and I

mean that's just one example and I mean

my daughter and I are both staring at him and I said I don't know why you think you can talk to me like

this and I

mean I you know like it's a big deal my

blood clot is a big

deal and I just I've been done before

and then things happened and I allowed

my plans to become derailed and

everything like that and so I do me a

favor right do me a favor right now Jody

uhuh where is all of this in your body

is it in your chest it is okay take your

fist and put it in your chest right now

uhhuh take a humongous deep breath real

big and then exhale it out drop your

shoulders as low as you can go pull them down okay okay and here's why we're

doing this exercise this is what happens inside

your mind too yeah when you start researching

stuff isn't it it spins faster and

faster and faster and faster yes and then it feels chaotic and

then your daughter comes in and says hey can you help me with my lunch tomorrow and then you're off to the next thing

and this thing never resolves itself and it just spins faster and it's heavier

and heavier yes the only way I've learned

and and I'm like you I get pretty emotional got hard I don't have anything

like what you're dealing with at home but when I get emotional I spin and I go faster and faster and faster and the

only way I've learned to be able to walk

through those things is with other

people I have been Gathering my friends

and family I've um kind of explained

where I'm at but listen to me you're

doing a lot of you're using other people

and you're using your internet searches as Xanax yes you need to find somebody I

want a practical plan you need to sit

with a lawyer that you are paying that

you are on the clock with because that will force you to Laser in and say what

do you want to do next otherwise you

just have a bunch of people that you talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and you've got you've got to have a

you've got to have a gang you got to have people that will listen to you and that will sit with you and will show up with cast RS but you need to have somebody who will say here's what

happens if you do a here's what happens

with b and someone that will walk you through

step by step here is legally and

practically what happens

next yes and there'll be Financial

ramifications there will be um custody

ramifications there will be all sorts of

ramifications yeah but I want you to

stop spin in and sit with somebody and

by the way an some attorneys aren't people of character and they'll take your money they'll let you spend all day long and they'll just put you on the clock most of the ones I've ever met with care deeply about their clients and they will say okay if you're hiring me to go to war let's go to war yeah so I'm

gonna ask you what's your next move I I will well lawyer retainer um I

have a friend who said that she would help me get the money I have no money I have nothing in well that's my next question is my fault what does this mean for you because you got to eat

I'm yes and I um met with an Employment

Specialist um I had gotten a therapist

um and a psychiatrist um because I was

depressed and I um was undiagnosed ADHD

for many years and

um so you know and tell me about your

job tell me about your job oh she's so

awesome but but this is this is why I

need to go this is taking its toll on her and as he was sitting there yelling

at me I'm like I don't want her to think

that I'm sorry tell me about your job

not your child tell me about your job what are you going to do for money sorry if you leave um how are you going to eat

and where you going to live um I told

the employment Specialists we're meeting um next week to um help me with my

resume okay and um I am my heart is in

the nonprofit World however I told them

that my first priority is to make enough money for me to be able to live on my

own and support my daughter there you go have you ever done that before um lived on my own yes okay then

you can do it again as a student yes

okay I know I can do this that that's the thing like I know that I can do this

I keep tripping myself up I know I'm

worth more and um more than anything and

the reason I'm willing to accept Help from My Friends and Family financially

is that I owe my daughter

more and um part of the reason that I've

been also kind of De um not putting it

off is um I know um I know he's going to make it so

ugly and I know he's going to drag her

in it but I tell myself he's already

dragged her in it yeah and I've allowed

it and in leaving him I I think I hope

that that means I'm not dragging her in it I'm dragging her out of it and if he continues to Drager in it I will just

have to do my best to so let's let's Sol

that let's solve that problem when we get there let's do the next right thing

in front of us and Jade's going to walk

you through the four walls but these are

the things I want you to put on a list I want you to sit down with a trusted friend or or um a a a couple friend that

you trust that you can walk through what

this actually means because these have to be real numbers they can't be feelings and thoughts they have to be real numbers and I want you to sit with an attorney and if you need to leave and go stay with somebody because your home's not safe then do that right now

like today physically I'm safe I am

physically safe I really do believe that okay but not mentally okay yeah you know

when you get when you make that leap and

you you know walk out of this thing the thing you're going to have to focus on first is just making sure that you can pay for your shelter like you've got to

find a place that you can live that you can afford after that it's utilities

after that it's food after that it's

Transportation because you need to be able to get to work and back and so

those four things before you get off the line today we're going to get you set up with every dollar um and and totally for

free so that you can use that you can

start budgeting you can start looking at what your life is going to look like financially I think that you making this

choice I know you said you were worried about dragging your daughter through it but she's also going to see something really great of a woman who says I'm not

going to be treated like this and I get to decide and she's going to take that and carry that with her and it's going to mean a lot for her Soo tough stuff good job John we're

blessed we're praying for you call back

any [Music] [Applause]

[Music]

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[Music]

you're listening to the Ramsey Show I'm Jade warshaw joined by Dr John deloney

today as we take your calls you can give us a call number is 8825 5225 get in

where you fit in hey guys all the time

we're talking about the steps and the

changes that you need to make in order to change your money your career your

mental health uh even your relationships

every single day because we know none of

it is happening by accident okay it takes intentionality to do this it takes

hard work so here's how we're going to

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this book should be like $100 that's

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sale ends today when the stock market

closes the I don't know if it's at 5:00

11:59 PM I feel like one of those floppy

guys in front of a car dealership the wacky wavies the wacky wavy so they're

called so they're called there we go at 1159 put the camera on thday a second

make it happen 10 bucks go get them y'all don't want to see my wacky wavy

they refuse there it is they cut away I know they don't

nobody wants to see that all right let's go to we should start a band called The Wacky wavies I like it that's an amazing

band slide guitar slide guitar okay

let's go Natasha is in Kansas City

Missouri what's going on

Natasha hi guys how are you good what do

you think about the band named wacky

wavy oh I don't know I'm probably not

the right person to ask that means we're

on to something I'm not a musician I'm

not a musician I don't know well how can we help you today um well so I just wanted to I

listen to the show all the time uh

longtime lur litter firstand caller um

so my husband and I have several rental

rental properties and a couple years ago

we bought a property with the idea that

his mom who was in the midst of a

divorce uh could live in that house and

obviously we didn't want to dictate anything for her but she's been living

there and she I think would like to stay

which we're totally fine with um but she

has approached us about maybe putting an

addition on the house um and I think

it's fine I want we we desperately want

her to be happy and you know we want it to be a blessing to her but um we've

never had a business partner in any of our like rental properties and so I feel

a little bit weird with the idea of her

paying for some portion even though I know she's living in the house so I just

wanted to make sure like I'd love to

just like give her the green light we really would be tickled honestly if she

it's a blessing to her and she stays forever as far as we're concerned but is

there anything I'm not thinking of you know that I should I mean listen I love

your heart on this I think that you love your mother-in-law you want you know to

her to feel like the place is hers um

it's not hers it's yours um is she

paying you rent or do you let her live there rentree no no she's not paying us

rent I mean we did we OB we we vetted

the property as a rental with the idea

that if she didn't like it we would rent

it out because we do have other rental properties that's part of our portfolio

so you're just using the other properties to to float this one or is it

paid for in cash so so we will have this

property paid off by the end of next year and we have one other we have we

have a total left of mortgages between

our between three of two are paid off

great five total properties they'll

they'll all be paid off in the next probably three and a half years so then

back to this idea of the addition on the

house um I think

because here's where I think I think if

you let her pay for this um and

something happens because no you know

nobody knows what's around the corner right there's going to be some feeling that it's her house and I put this money

into the addition and it just feels like

it could get very messy very quickly

even if you put it in writing which if you decide to do this definitely put it in writing the amount that she's putting

into it what would happen if the house

uh were to sell or if she were to move how does she get her money back that sort of thing um but more than that you

want to know what I would just do it's your house if you want an addition on it just put an addition on it that's what I

would do that's what I was that's what I was wondering should we just pay for it

I would and it's not worth your relationship with your mother-in-law cuz here's what's going to happen by the way what's this addition for so it it's a cute little starter

house but I think she'd like a house

that has more room for her grandkids to

be over I mean I and honestly it's in a

great neighborhood we bought a little house with plenty of room like a lot of

people in the area have done additions so I think there's plenty of upsides

financially to doing the addition but I

did I have like this little bit of Ang like should we just pay for it yeah what

she want you're gonna pull out you're gonna pull out the back wall and you're going to find a ton of termite damage ex exactly nice her kitchen and she would

like she wants to wash her dryer upstairs so when she gets older it's not an issue which I to yeah makes sense

what what about just moving her to one of these other houses I was going to ask that same thing so the other properties

that we have we did offer to her

initially when we when she was moving

and she wasn't ke some of the they're they're all stairs they all have okay so

this is the only this one is a single family nice little ranch what's it going to cost you great neighborhood to do the

addition we haven't even looked but I'm

guessing I would I would guess we

wouldn't pay more than like 100 do you

have cash it's it's a two it's a $200,000 well we won't do it if we don't

have cash but um we we I love how you

said that you're like listen I would not

I would not take her money I would keep this clean this is y'all's place um and

only it's in our trust and we and we're

in a we're in a really good Financial spot we I mean we're we're several

million dollars now yeah you are yeah

job if y'all feel like you want to do this I would I would I would pay for it and I would not take her money and I would tell her hey thank you so much for offering but I want you to we want you

to live to be 125 and so we want to make sure you can afford all the way down and we've been blessed and we can do this it

just keeps everything so clean and it's

not you I'm worried about it's not your husband it's not her it's it's your brother-in-law who has a

gambling debt that you don't know about that turns to Su just we would not have

a job if every family acted like you and

your husband and your mother-in-law yeah

it always goes sideways and if every

contractor was honest and no trees fell

through houses and so I would just keep

lines as clean as possible or deed her

the house give it to her and say this is Merry Christmas and just make sure you

put it in your will that we get it back and do that give it away to her that's pretty cool um but I oh that's an idea I

keep the lines as clean as

possible okay yeah yeah that's what

we've like I said we've never had business partners or anything for that reason like we're The Entity we're the

engine even even when people call and

they've done all the paperwork and they've written it the right way there's still something that causes a saltiness or an animosity and that's why I said

before even if you were to do all of that it still doesn't make up for the

the feelings that ensue after the fact

and so I'm with John I would either pay

and have this addition put on with your own $100,000 cash or I would deer the

house and say hey really this is our gift to you whatever changes you want to make it's yours free and clear I I like

that idea you guys have done really really well um and this is the stuff

that we talk about you know you live like no one else later you're able to to to give like no one else and this is

giving on a whole another level yeah and

I just don't want to see next Christmas

there's a lot of tension because she's doing something to your house with money she doesn't have just just don't keep the lines clean cuz you love each other

yeah I like that this is the ramsy

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

what's going on you're listening to the ramsy show my name is Jade warshaw next

to me is Dr John deloney if you don't

know now you know you guys need to know

about Dr John John tell them about

yourself my name is

John my friends call me John yeah dude

my friends call me John my wife calls me John does anybody call you Johnny my

kids call me old man no I wanted to be

Johnny cuz a CED a kid but never stuck is it short for Jonathan nope I think

they were gonna call me Jonathan and my mom said when I was born I just look like a John so she John she called it

all right I like it all right she called it well he's the guy that's going to take the calls about your relationships

if you're dealing with things going on

in that side of things mental health

World wellness world he's got you covered I'm here for the money side so

if you want to call us the number is

88882542886 let me just say um John and

I have jobs because of you guys so we're

really grateful that you listen to the show that you uh listen on podcast that

you log in on YouTube that you pull it

up you know you turn the radio dial some

of you and you listen to us on the radio and we're really grateful for that so if you could do us a solid here and

wherever you listen to the show like it

subscribe and share if you can do those

three things it'll cost you like two seconds of your time and we'd be so grateful because when you do that not only does it share the show with other people but it makes the show more accessible uh the way the internet works

and the way all these things work together so that would help us a lot we know that you already do it keep doing it is what I'm trying to say all right let's go to the phone lines we've got Nick in Chicago Illinois shy town what's

going on Nick hi I was just calling because um my

wife and I are trying to St for a house

and I've talked to her about having a

budget and for some reason

she says that we can stick to a budget

and I have like just used my notes app

on my phone and talked about it with her but it seems like it's like $10 here $20

here $50 here and it adds up and I don't

think she really realizes it so I'm just

calling to like ask um how I can like

talk to her talk to her about it in a

way where like she can get on board and

then like how she can like stick to the

budget that wanting to stick to if that makes sense so there could be two things at play um it could be that the budget

is not quite realistic enough it could

be I don't know I always say that budgets should be three things detailed

realistic and flexible so just that

first pass here there's part of me that thinks it's probably not hitting the the

mark in one or more of those areas um

did you tell me that you're using the notes app to budget or you're using the

notes app to decide what to say to

her um no we've just written down like

all of our expenses and then like all of

our um how much we make and then all of

our expenses per month okay so that's

another part of this you know having the

right tool is what's going to make budgeting something that you can stick to and that you can do for the long haul

it makes it more enjoyable um it's

really hard to stick to a budget that's written just in the notes app I'm I'm

just going to tell you that so I think I

think here what we need here is the right set of tools and the right set of parameters and how to work the tool so

before you leave today I'm going to get you set up with every dollar it's the best budgeting app there is because on

it um it's not a Notes app it's it's a

really great app that you can have on

your phone it's on her phone it's working with you in time so if you make

a purchase on your phone she sees it on her phone and it's something as simple

as hey uh I'm going to the grocery store

I I just need to see how much we can spend and you open up the app and it says $300 and you're like great

and then when you make that purchase at the grocery store you spent $50 it

automatically goes into the app and now you can see now I only have $250 left to

spend so it's going to do that math for you and it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers I think that's going to go a really really long way and then

it's going to help you to see um okay

the numbers that we said are they

accurate like does this actually work with our life because it's possible um

Nick that she's going over budget because what you've said is just not a realistic amount could I be right about

that or yeah possibly I just feel like I feel

like just her like knowing like how much

is left or how much we like is in the

budget to like go out to eat and stuff like that like we have like a budget for that but I feel like it always goes over

um but it's also a Notes app so you're constantly like it's almost like an old

school Ledger that you're having to yeah

I gu you mean like the app or whatever you're talking about I feel like seems like something a lot more practical do

you do you all do this budget together or do you sit down and sit or

you tell her I I sat down originally and

wrote it out and we sat down together

and looked at it together and went over it together and agreed like hey this is

not right this is right and then we should changed a few things but that didn't seem to work how long have you been doing that um six months okay I give every

dollar a try and see if it helps next

thing I want to know is the area that she's go the areas that she's going over is it the same area as every

month yeah it's mostly just shopping and

eating out so you're both eating out or

only she's eating out or she'll um typically I'm like her

lunch break from work she'll eat out got

you okay so she's going out for lunch um

and then what's the other area you said

shopping like for clothes shopping okay

yeah so next question is what baby step

are you guys on

uh we're debt free um and we don't we're

pretty much saving for a house we don't

have any debt how much have you saved so far renting what how much have you saved

so far for the house um 24,000 okay good and what's the

goal we're trying trying to get it as

high as possible but our goal was

originally 880,000 and our it hasn't

really changed like the past like four months we haven't

really made any progress on saving more

okay let me ask you this I'm just trying to get to the core because I don't I don't want to say anything that's not quite right how long did it take you to pay off your debt and save up the three to six months before you started

this um most of it was done um most of

it was done by me before we had uh

gotten married so I feel I I we didn't

she didn't have any debt I paid off my

debt before we got

okay so she didn't have debt she comes

into this and it's like we're in saving

mode basically for the home okay um Nick

you keep saying we there's no we here you paid off debt

you you built a budget you want to buy a

house she wants to eat lunch with her

friends and buy

clothes yeah can I also ask another

probing question buy a house tells me

she's so passionate about it she can't wait to do it she wants to do it yeah but behavior is a language so she's being pretty clear about what she really believes uh what is the clothing budget

what is the food the out to eat

budget like we've said like a h for like

eating out for her we said um once a

week go out and eat and I said like $10

a week once a week that's what we agreed

on so $40 yeah and then what's the clo the $40

a month and what's the shopping I and then we had originally agreed on going

once a month shopping with a $50 budget

of that okay and what's you guys's income combined what's your combined income 100,000 okay I think that she

feels a little suffocated she's like we make $100,000 a

year I'm working he's working I want to

spend more than $40 on restaurants and maybe I want to

spend so when she goes over shopping I'm trying to meet in the middle cuz I'm not saying she's right and I'm not saying she's you're wrong when she goes over

budget for clothes how much does she go

over like she's spending like $300 a

month the last few months on clothes okay she's tripping a little bit let's

be honest about that so maybe it's hey I

noticed you're going over $50 isn't cutting it can we go to 150 can we go to

can we go to 100 try to meet her in the middle because what I think what I think could be happening and John you could

pop in here but I think she's like we don't have any de like we've got 3 to 6

months of savings I don't want to feel so tight I want a house but I don't want to feel so so tight there that might be

going on try to meet her halfway on that

and um other than that it's you guys

sitting down and having a a big kids conversation about do we want a house or do we not want a house and maybe it's

you rolling out the numbers and saying hey if we keep going at this rate we're

not going to have a house until the year

2034 you know what I mean and it's just you being honest about what's actually

going on and then you know see see where

it goes from there it's not easy these conversations

are not easy this is the Ramsey

[Music]

Show so George we talk a lot about

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Xander helps us do that so it's a great benefit for the team but it's a great benefit for everybody because Jeff Xander and I have been working together for gosh 25 years we've been doing stuff

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[Music]

[Music]

thank you for listening to the Ramsey Show on the Ramsey Network I'm Jade warshaw next to me is Dr John delone we're taking your calls and here's the thing sometimes you guys call we have a number here that you can um leave a

message if you have a question or something you want to talk about sometimes people call and we miss the call so if we missed your call sorry we

missed your call uh we'll get to it

matter of fact we have a voicemail here

uh from Meredith uh let's take a listen

I have a question about how' you go from

being on welfare to being in the baby

steps it seems very very scary to go

from being on food camps and Medicaid

and all of that stuff to switching to

paying for everything yourself not

really sure how to change that I know

it's a mindset but I'm not really sure

how to get from point A to point B

without hurting myself and my children

drastically thank you bye wow okay that

that's a that's a deep one John yeah I

like she said it's a mindset so I want

to separate I have a close friend of mine who um right before she had child

number three um husband left like was in

desperate need of support and care right so um I think we're I I love that we can

support and Care people who um find themselves in the margins when life happens right um I get a different vibe

from Meredith and I loved how she said it it's a mindset and there can come a

point when the world that we've set up

for for some of our our our citizens is

you know what you're never going to be enough you just sit over there in the corner we're going to Pat you on the head and well somebody's going to come take care of you cuz you you can't do this yeah and over a long period of time

you begin to believe you're less then

yeah that you can't 100% And she I love

this question she's asking cuz she's saying no I want to I want to stand up

and I want to be I want

to be in the driver's seat of my own

life and it's terrifying because I've

got this sense everybody's been treating

me for so long and I've been living this way I that I can't I don't know how I'll

never know enough I'm just going to hurt everybody I'm going to screw everything up and y'all told me to go sit in the corner and Pat me on the head y'all just y'all just send money in the mail and it's going to be all good and so for

someone to Merit the situation I think it's important to keep this one word and

and always keep this word front and center which is practice yes I'm just

going to practice it's a skill that I

don't have I've never done this thing

and I'm going to practice this and I

have to practice I've never had a high school kid I have one right now just

started I'm having to practice being a

high school dad because I've never done it before and I'm already not doing a great job at it right I've never been

the the the dad of a third grader I've never

done that I'm practicing a third grade

daughter I've never done that I'm practicing it similar if you've never

paid for anything and often this this

generational poverty can be generational right yeah you you learn that you learn how to sign up learn how to work the system somebody hands you helps you out

I've never done it before okay cool we're going to take we're going to take baby steps first thing we're going to do is we're going to learn how how money Works we're going to watch these courses we're going to get a job well you've

also not on had to had the opportunity

to like stretch your legs on it because if if you're in these if you're in these programs there's limits like hey if you

if you earn Beyond this you know longer

get the crutch we cut you off and I'm thinking that like follow me on this uh

in college I played volleyball and I was a middle blocker and I went up for a block and this crooked thumb snapped all

the way back and I tore the ligaments

all the way through and it was the most painful thing I've ever done even more painful than childb birth so I had this

guard that I used to have to wear and

after a while um

the trainer was like hey you got to take that guard off and I was like oh I can't

take the guard off like I'm going to feel pain I don't know like I it was it

it it was it made me so afraid to play

the game I loved playing without this

guard on because I was like for sure I'm going to snap my ligaments again and then you find yourself going up with two hands but kind of head in one halfway

yeah like halfway you're like oh you know you've got this and I'm like you're never going to know what you can do until you just up and do it you got to stretch your legs you got to play you got to take the guard off and see you

know she she adds a very interesting component here I don't want to hurt my kids right so there's a lot of weight on

that hey you just got to go you got to go do this but the thing is you're on it

until you're exceeding it that's right

so once you're exceeding it you're exceeding it and it's like okay I can do

more I can keep going I don't need this

crutch any longer it was their for

season it was never intended to be something that you had for the rest of your life and so I think that's the part

she's got to understand is okay this was

here to just kind of like raise me up a little bit and get me to that point but

I'm to that point now I can I can go

forward and you know I think you have to

be real about very very very real about

the dollars and cents we took a call earlier yes how much is my house cost

what are my electric bill what's my water bill what is my gas bill what does food in this house what's Transportation look like how stable is this job do I need a second job with childcare yes you

have to be honest about those numbers

and it's easier to say I just want be done with this great but you're not

ready math may not be done with you right same as we talked to people on the other side who's like I'm just going to buy this house math doesn't care what

you want to do right so it's being

honest about these numbers and then we're going to practice and you will

mess it up if you've never stretch your legs you're going to fall down that's

okay it's part of it that's why we have

coaches that walk alongside people that's why we have budget that gives you a good framework for it um and we'll

walk with you every step of the way but keep that word in mind practice any of us the the cool cultural thing to do now is

to scream and yell at people who are trying to change just beat them back to

the place where they deserve that's good

job I I see men trying to become different kinds of men and they are beat

up on both sides and what do they they stop I don't want to take it I see women same thing see those with the least of these those who are trying to learn to give so you're going to have to ignore

the voices and you're going to have to go do the next right thing and we all have to practice it's okay we're learning new skills we're going to go make it happen I like that that it's

good John all right let's try to take a call we've got Darren and Boise Idaho

what's going on Darren well uh good afternoon I've got

um a couple of questions for you I have

um a HELOC that I'm I'm paying on we had

we had some big issues in our kitchen

and we felt that it was probably best to

just redo the kitchen and try to make a

few different things work with it um we

had hole in the bottom of our oven so we

couldn't use our oven our cooktop wasn't

working anymore uh so we we just we

redid our kitchen what' you what was the

for amount well it was oh $40,000 okay

what else you got red did it um and then

we just we have our home that's it okay

we have our home on a 15-year mortgage

we have 180 188,000 left and it's at

2.25% okay

um so my question is this I'm I'm 53 I

um I'm I'm investing in my 401k uh doing

the catchup so it's like 30,000 a year

okay and I'm I'm wondering should I

should I drop that for a year and pay

off this seock is that gonna I mean it's

going to hurt me a little bit but you

know we're we're okay we got about we almost have $600,000 in our 401K yeah um

and then and so if I do that then also

then what is my tax liability because my taxable income is going to jump way up

and my my taxes are going to be brutal um it probably won't be that

that bad it's not gonna your when your

tax bracket changes your your whole pay

you're the whole isn't amount isn't on

that bracket it's just the amount that puts you into that bracket so you're not

going to it's not going to be a blood bath here how much do you

make um our combined household income is

is about 200,000 bro I here's what you

done you put your house on the Block for

a new

kitchen I I would get I would get you

put the house on the Block you went to the bank and said hey you give us a kitchen and if we don't pay you back you

can have our

house I would take my house I I I would

be much more concerned long term that

somebody else has the keys to my front

door then than not than any kind of

interest rate any kind of tax

implication do you get what I'm

saying but so you would you would stop

putting money into your form I I would stop everything and pay that helck off your house is on the on the chopping block right now the key here is Darren you really Dro back to baby step two on this we always say that if the HELOC is more than H is less than half of the

total value then it goes into baby step

two so you owe 188 the helck is 40 so

for all intents and purposes you're on baby step 2 and so that's us pausing uh

pausing retirement if you wanted to take

some of the money that you had in savings and put it onto this and then rebuild that up you could do that but you're back in baby step too um it's not

going to take you long to pay it off and rebuild your savings and get back to investing but that's the bed you made

and so you kind of have to lay in it and I hate to tell you that because it feels

not fun at 53 years old but you guys made that choice this is the Ramy show

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

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today from the Ramsey Network it's the

ramsy show I'm do I'm Jade botw next to

Dr John delone and we're going to take your calls all hour long we're going to help you build wealth do work that you love and create amazing relationships

it's a live show so if you want to call in you can do that the number is

8825 5225 uh let's get it on and popping John

let's do it and I'll call you Dr Jade I accept that I no don't do it dude you

can get them online now it's all good it's all good it's a certificate

what is it called when they just bestow it on you cuz you did something cool honorary honorary yeah we had to give

that to James he wanted that so we hooked him up with that but Dr James child's yeah Dr James child has a nice ring to it Dr Jimmy C let's take a call

let's go to Denver and talk to Chris

what's going on Chris in Denver hi how's it going doing good how

are you oh doing okay um I'm on Bas step two

which is paying debt off and I've been

just attacking debt but I'm getting to

the point now to where

um you know should I start putting a

little bit into my emergency fund it seems like

every time I turn around right now I'm paying on a credit card and it's two

steps forward one step back because

there's a dental bill that comes up or something we have three kids okay um

um so let's talk about that a little bit you're on baby step 2 but do you have the Thousand saved oh yeah okay so you're you're

feeling like you just keep going through it and and then some oh yeah okay uh part of this part

of baby step two uh the huge the huge

Crux of baby step two is budgeting and

the way that you're budgeting and how you're kind of scanning the next week

and the next month and the next six months to make sure that you're budgeting properly um to try to avoid

some of these what now feel like

emergencies cuz whether it's Dental stuff or it's something with the car um

so a lot of people will utilize sinking

funds if they know okay like I'm going to have to take you know Junior to the dentist and it's never $100 right so

that's one way you can kind of start looking towards this another way you can look towards that is just to say not right now like if it's something that

can wait obviously if somebody's having tooth pain it can't you know wait but

there might be some of the things when it comes to Orthodontics and you know

Jimmy needs braces things like that that can wait so tell me more about the

emergencies that are popping

up oh it's just I

mean it's now that you've put it that

way it's just failure plan um you know

I'll be honest I've paid off in three

months I've paid off 30 grand worth of debt Wow way to go can I tell you can I

tell you Chris What I Hear are you you sound tired man I am are you exhausted I run I I run

a business um and I'm exhausted all the

time I work six sometimes seven days a

week last night I got home at midnight I

was up at 5 I'm at my stop um can I stop

real quick and just celebrate you man I I know that's not going to pay your life bill but dude we have a culture of

people who are sitting on their couch watching TV and posting and

whining and you are the man who gives me

hope for the world that my two kids are in

inheriting I appreciate that hey I'm

telling you right now brother you're out

doing it if I had a culture of men like

you and women like you we would have

literally zero of our innate challenges

right

now yeah I'm listening dude I'm I'm just

telling you just Dad to Dad I'm I'm so

proud of you I can hardly breathe man

it's awesome now you're getting me choked up how much longer do you got to

go uh I did the debt calculator and

that's the thing I did the debt calculator and um it said

2027 okay um February 2027 with

everything that I've got right now okay

um Consumer Debt wise um our mortgage

will be paid off and half of it will be

paid off in four years and the other half will be

uh 10 years so half of it in four years

so that's the 2027 are you including

half of it in

that

uh well half of half the mortgage

payment goes away we bought two loots I

see I basically bought two locks and

moved a mobile on it that I bought for

three grand and renovated the whole

thing and paid cash to do it so now we

owe we're not we don't do business with

banks um I don't have I have they did an

owner carry on my property and I did it that way so I

could pay cash to do it and have a place

our mortgage is 1,100 bucks a month okay

and what's how much is the other Consumer

Debt 75,000 okay and what kind of debt

is it can you go through it for me see

if we can truck for 62,000 that

I didn't really have a choice on

um tell me more about that $62,000 feels

like a lot of choices tell me what is it

I had a I had a 27 um I shoot horses for a living 65,000

miles a year on a truck okay 65,000

miles yeah 65,000 miles a year on a

truck um my truck blew up they wanted 30

grand Fixit it had 35,000 on that

um it was over 2022

right around there and there was Zero

trucks on the lot and they were wanting

more for some used trucks than they were

for new trucks and I work for very high and

people

that I have to be there it's just here

here's what I want to get to because I don't want to run out of time on you okay so it's a $62,000 truck what what's

it worth you owe 62 what is it worth I'm

30 grand up down on it oh gosh okay 30

grand upside down okay tell us the rest of the debt let's keep going uh I have

another truck that I bought

used by Ember talk right into your phone because

you're breaking

up talk right into your phone for me

yeah yeah go for it I'm talking right into it okay can you hear me y

y um there I owe 32,000 on another truck

what's it worth

uh I'm 10,000 upside down on that one

okay so it's worth

22 Yeah okay is it necessary for your

life or can we off haul it is it necessary for your business yes this is what I use primary

for my business I I wanted to stop driving the one that I'm 30 grand upside down on pay the payment and hopefully in

a year I can get rid of it okay it might require you switching

that ideal because it's going to be harder to get out of this $30,000 truck upside down than this one that you're only $10,000 upside down and that could

clear out $20,000 of debt lickidy split

if you did that if you just got a loan to cover the difference well my only thing is is the

other one that I bought is a

diesel my one that blew up was a diesel

and when the diesel blows up it's 30

30,000 plus dollars okay but there's no

I'm driving now is a gas truck and it

doesn't cost the repair cost and everything on it is hold on hold on brother listen you're creating a world where you can't win you're creating a world where you

can't win there's not a path forward without sacrifice here man mhm there's

just not we want you to win so bad but you're

going to have to make some concessions whether you stop doing high-end horseshoeing or you sell one of these trucks or you get rid of one of the Lots you're going to have to make some hard calls brother yeah you know what I'm

interested in talking with you more can you stay on the line so we can talk to you a little bit longer this is the Ramsey Show

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you're listening to the Ramsey Show I Jay next to me is Dr John we're taking your calls matter of fact we just took a call from Chris in Denver he was telling us about his situation he's

$175,000 in debt uh and right now it's

going to take him until 2027 to pay it

off I asked him to go a little a little bit more deeper into the situation it turns out he's got a $62,000 truck that

he's $30,000 upside down on he also has

a $32,000 truck that he's $110,000

upside down on and I just wanted to dig a little bit deeper uh Chris does that

sound about right Bud yeah yeah that's that's about right

and it's not like we're destitute I mean I make really good money yeah I know you

do I know you do I I see that um I just

want to make sure that we're making the

most of this debt-free timeline because

you know you sounded so tired when you

called in and we want to make sure you get to the to the light at the end of the tunnel here so you're currently driving the $32,000 truck you're driving it because it's not a diesel truck and you don't want it to blow up but meanwhile you've got the $62,000 truck

sitting in the driveway what collecting dust so I want to figure out the right

Solution on that but tell me about the rest of the debt uh I owe um 40 Grand to the IRS

okay and and then I and then I have

uh let's see there's that that and then

I owe 11 on a credit card 11 on a credit

card is there something else uh 1304 I

think so maybe I'm wrong on the number okay because right now I've got right

now I've got 100 134 144 and you told me

you had 175

right yeah what else let me think for a

second here meanwhile that there's that well

you talk about that I think that's it

that's it okay so it's a little less than what we thought about um first

things first IRS has to jump to the top of the list if it's not

okay okay usually we talk about the debt

snowball being smallest to largest in this case IRS has to come first and

that's for anybody listening if you're in trouble with the IRS you got to deal

with that first because you no telling what they can garnish your wages and then that would really put you in a Dilly of a pickle as they say okay so

that's for I I've got an agreement with them I just make them I make them a payment okay but you're going to pay them more because they're going to be the number one thing in your debt snowball yeah okay okay knock it out as

quickly as possible yeah and I was I've got that

that that was next in line after the $11,000 credit card yes but now we're

switching that and we're putting the IRS IRS first okay okay got to do it

that way all right uh going back to

these trucks hey I really you got to

sell one of them in the one that makes the most sense to sell John cut in if you want to I'm just thinking about I

mean if you wanted to take the hit on

the $330,000 the $62,000 truck and just

say hey I'd rather owe 30 than than 60

you could I guess take out a loan for the difference and be on the hook for the 30

um yeah I let me dude I I are you

frustrated with us Chris like are you

frustrated with yourself no no not at all I I'm I'm I'm just trying

I'm a number I mean I know I've gotten

myself into this but um I I I I would

love to get rid of the the the $62,000

truck then do it head head over there if

your credit will allow you get a $330,000 loan for the difference and

sell the truck for $30,000 you're free

and clear I'd rather you owe 30,000 than

62,000 and you're it's it's going to

suck you're going to be like why but you

got to get out of that the only other

choice is to go and sell the $32,000

truck that you're $10,000 upside down on on that one can I ask you this how much

do you make brother like like what's

your what's your net income from your business alone my the whole

business is I

175,000 a

year yeah

okay and that's with that's that's after

all the truck payments and everything too I bring in a quarter million a year

that's your bottom line so why in the why in the world is it going to take you two years or three years to pay this debt off because I was it hasn't I mean if I

did more towards it but I'm just living

like I've been putting 10,000 a month towards debt and then I drain my bank account and then something comes up and then I got to put it on a credit card here's the thing I hold some of that back a little bit yeah I mean if you know a dentist appointment is coming for your child yeah with you own owning your

own business there's a there's a tension here between are you going toay pay yourself more and pay taxes on that and do all that whole song and dance or you

going to leave the money in the business and do it like that so I think that you have more I I'm not sure the workings of

your business I don't know if you're the only employer of your business but if

you have the ability to pay yourself more so that you can work through this quick more quickly I would do that I

would get rid of one of these trucks whatever makes the most sense whatever one you're willing to part with you've got to get rid of one maybe it's the $60,000 one that's probably where I

would start you've got to move IRS to the top of the list that's the prescription it's up to you if you're going to take the medicine or not all right let's go to Travis who's in Dallas

Texas what's going on

Travis hey Jade and Dr John how are you

guys today we're doing good how can we

help F fantastic I am super glad to be

on Dr John I just finished building a

non-anxious life on audiobook while door

dashing so excellent hope you're a

little bit less anxious man y absolutely so uh my question is uh

my wife and I are in baby step two um

we've got about

129,000 left to pay um we are

um so basically what I'm trying to

figure out is I have a loan that is a

it's a loan from a credit union from a

car that was underwater and the minimum

payment is

583 um and there's 5,000 left on that

however that is like seven debts down

the debt snowball uhuh and so I was

curious on what your guys thoughts were

in trying to pay that off a little bit

more quickly to free up that

$583 payment a month so you're saying

it's four debts down and the ones in

front of it have a lower have less money that they free up correct it's it's

actually uh well the IRS is on the top

right now um and then 1 2 3 four five six seven

it's actually eight debts down from the

top I mean the truth is the truth is

Travis a lot of the thought behind some

of the things we teach is not necessarily from a mathematical perspective that's the truth right um a

lot of times it has more to do with how

you're feeling and what makes you feel more motivated in a moment and so the

way the reason we teach the debt snowball is because there's something

about being able to check something off a list and cross it off the list and go okay yes I've done something successful I can keep going and so my guess is I

mean not a guess it's true the ones that

are before this $5,000 debt are a lot

smaller of debts and you should be able to knock them out fast they're $5,000

and lower right and you said it's eight

that go above that so I mean how much

could these debts be$ two and

$3,000 yeah so they're anywhere between

2 and 4,000 and uh you know so far we've

paid off about 30,000 since we started

with you guys in March um how much

margin are you putting every month what's your what's your shovel about

2,000 a month okay so 2,000 extra 5,000

total towards debt a month so in about

five or six months you should be up to

this $5,000 debt yeah if you're if

you've got a $2,000 shovel and most of

the debts are between two and 4,000 we

should be clicking up this basically

almost every month you're almost knocking one of them out and so I think

that's going to feel more gratifying than having the extra money there now

it's your life you can do whatever you want I'm not going to yell at you you're the one who has to sleep in your bed at night is what I'm saying but um that's

my advice and I'm I like the bur in your

saddle I like the fact that it pisses

you off uhhuh oh yes yeah I like the

fact that it's it follow it in order man

and let it just drive you crazy let it

drive you crazy and it's going to I

guarantee you if you don't pay it off early you'll get there faster than 6 months M yeah for sure yeah it's definitely

it's definitely got a motivation when you have $175,000 of student loans where you

started with and you know I've made more

progress in the past six months than I almost did in 10 years of course you did that's right that's right and so I think the next six months to eight months are

game changers for you guys momentum wise mhm there's a reason that we teach what

we teach we teach it because it works at

the end of the day it works we've been teaching this 30 years um not me but

Dave Ramsey the goat and I've just been here I don't know two years but I can tell you it works it works for me my husband and I paid off $460,000 of debt using the debt snowball

method listing those debts from smallest to largest making minimum payments on all but throwing all the money at the smallest debt this is the ramsy show

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[Music]

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you're listening to the Ramsey Show I'm

Jade warshaw next to me is Dr John

deloney you can give us a call if you want us to take your call it's

88255 225 and we will get to you all

right John the live like no one else cruise is almost sold out can you

believe that I can more than 80% of the

cabins are already booked yeah dude so if you want to join us uh in March you need to secure your cabin today uh the

cruise really it's just the ultimate debt-free celebration that if that's the way you want to look at it um this is

for people who are on baby step 4 and

above all right so if you're on baby step two the boat's going to leave without you is all I'm saying it's not for you so D you straight up rhymed that

if you're on baby step two the boat will leave without you listen I'm a poet and didn't know it be rhyming all the time

all the time here we go join us and when

I say us I'm talking about all the Ramy personalities Dr John myself uh George

camel Rachel Cruz I'm GNA forget

somebody Ken Coleman the goat we're all

going to be there all right George George is uh he is campaigning for a

cannonball compet ition he is very small

but he is a mighty cannonballer so

that's going to be a key a key part of the week it's a speedo only Cannonball

competition that's what he's that's what he's campaigning for obviously Ken and I

want to wear well Ken wants to wear jean shorts I just want to wear regular regular swim trunks but we'll

get there we'll figure it all we'll figure out the logistics it's going to be a party no shoes no shirt and hey

it's also um because this is like the

meeting of this is like the meeting of the epicenter of the cult there's going to be many punch B bowls and ladles we're just going to drink Kool-Aid stop it it's going to be amazing okay wait a minute let me go back this is not going

to be K Kenny chest's Cruise as I may

have saying it's going to be blast

cultic Cruise as John has said why would you not come it's going to be so fun we're going all over the place it's going to be so much fun we're going to Turks and quos St Thomas Puerto Rico

Bahamas uh We've made this announcement

a lot of times that's why me and John are cutting up but it's going to be a great great time uh you don't want to

miss this we're partying with Dave come on you don't want to miss it you can secure your spot for 600 $ uh that's the

deposit uh before all the cabins are

gone so if you just like let I don't want to miss out put your $600 down um

and book your cabin today at ramsy solutions.com Cru that's the way to do it we'll see

you there we'll see you out there all

right let's go to the phone lines we've got Angie who's an Albuquerque New

mexico5 what's up

Angie hello how how are you doing doing

good what's up so I have a question

regarding my marriage so legally I've

been married for 13 years but um it's

been on and off for a while there but

lately um recently within the last three

years I have been living a silent

divorce with my

husband as far as um being emotionally

physically financially detached from our

marriage so I have a roommate now tell

me about that tell me about tell me about that choice why have yall chosen

that world

because there's no more connection there I know but like um there's kind of a

thing in popular culture to say like our

relationship are in its course I just reject that i i people at at the end of

the day they stop or one person just

gets off the train and the other person can't keep going but have y'all sat down

and had this conversation or have yall

just have yall just slowly let this

thing go out to pasture like right that's basically how

it happened we did not sit down for it

and um I've particularly asked for

divorce but he said he's not signing

anything so we just live like this the

issue around all of this is this is what I'm just wondering if it's even healthy to do this part here I know it's not healthy for me but from what the what

I've been looking for spiritually is what they've been telling me and what I've been you know throughout my research is that it's better for the kids to be at home and see both

parents even though we're living in this

situation versus being separated in

different homes that would be more harmful for them that is that doesn't even

understand how that doesn't even pass your smell test you know that's not true

and you're repeating something you continue to

hear

so do you think it's better for your

child to walk home and see two people who say we are married and your child is

downloading into their nervous system and into their heart and mind and soul this is what marriage this is what love love and compassion end till death do

his part looks like I know no I don't

agree with it but this is what I know

people are going to say what they're going to say you know well not

necessarily it's like you know the Bible says you you know once you get married you're married for life that's it you know your husband left you and I'm

saying this with all love in my heart he left you he just won't leave the

house well well I wish he would I I know

but he left you

we both did then you both left each

other and so what you're doing is you're playing legal semantics with the Bible

stop so I can't make someone sign you

know what I mean it's like that's there can be a no fault divorce and the judge

will make you sell your house and property and divide it

up and he will get whatever part is his

and you will get whatever part is yours and you will gone about the life yall have created for yourself but both of you are making a choice every single day and I hate to be so direct but that's the truth and what you're I what I think is

you're I think you are you're living a

life as a divorced person that's the word you gave me right well that's what

I mean so you've already violated this this biblical contract you're trying to stay like you're trying to stay true to

you've already done it plus most contract can I just say the

heart of a contract is the heart of the matter like when you get married the

piece of a paper is a legality but it's

more about you're saying I'm in commitment and Covenant with this person it's the heart that's really what is the

marriage like if we're talking about things from really like this biblical perspective it's that commitment but you guys have long since detached from that

so it's not about the the legal piece of

paper that's not are are you telling me the reconciliation is over that he won't sit down and say okay we've chosen to build this life and now we can choose to build something else no it's definitely over but again

my it's more towards what's going to be

more like a word what what what is just

going to be more I don't know uh

healthier maybe you're so far ma'am

you're so far past Health you're you're

so far past that and I know it's hard

because you're living in it you've been living in it for 36

months you're so far past Health a a

healthy mother and a healthy dad that's

the greatest gift for your kids and I it

doesn't matter rather if it's the same household or not regardless if they're going to be wonderful productive people

of society it just doesn't matter rather

it's the same household or not that's

just the bottom line no it's it's a this

is like it's a straw man so people ask

people ask me on my show all the time the the question is oh should we stay together for the kids no fix your marriage for the kids like that's that's a it's a it's a

false dichotomy like fix your marriage

for your CH for for yourselves and then

out of that repair your kids get to see

two people that got really distant but they made a covenant and they came back

together and if both of you refuse to do

that yes then your house becomes cancer

stop but it's not just for your kid it's

for you too and for your husband can I

ask a question are you guys living together peacefully or is this like the

worst no no I mean we're fine so you're

living together peacefully can I ask another question was there like a c like a cataly like was there a moment that it was like that's it like did somebody

cheat did somebody was there that big

blowup moment or did this just slowly erode over

time it's like I said in the beginning

so you know in the beginning of our marriage has been on and off because I had a child previously um and supposedly

he was going to you know love my child and everything and just throughout the years I realized no he resents her a lot and because of that it's just it it had

it just turned turned me off completely that so you're so you left him

no we're still in the same home no no no but for all practical matters you left

him right okay then call call a spade a

spade yeah I can't get I can't get that

love back it it's just not you no that's not true you're choosing not to and that's okay you can make that choice

no okay you can make if if if you're done

you're done you're done you're done I I don't I don't again I don't want that to

be the case but I also understand

understand if y'all both made a choice and let's make a choice then let's go ahead and call what we're doing what it

actually is we're doing this idea of a silent divorce it's like all hipster and

cool man you are untethered inside your

own home so you begin to come home and

you don't know who or what the energy in this home is going to be it's not safe for anybody it's not good be adults and

let's sit across the table and let's say if we've made this choice to end this then we're going to do the right thing the next right thing if there's any

chance we can choose to come back together let's make that choice and let's fight like hell to save this marriage but y'all get to make that [Music]

choice hey guys it's Rachel Cruz just

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[Music]

[Applause]

you're listening to the Ramsay show next to me is Dr John delone I'm Jade warshaw we're taking your calls uh we mostly

take your calls it's a live show but

today we have a question of the day that's coming to you from why refi

today's question of the day brought to you by why refi so now we don't

recommend refinancing on everything but for distressed private student loans

there is y refi We Trust y refi because

they help you with low fixed rate fixed

interest rate uh they help you get a low

fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget and get out of debt learn more at

y rei.com Ramsey that's the letter Y

ry.com Ramsey may not be available in

all states all right today's question comes from Wyatt in California Wyatt

writes my wife recently asked for a

divorce but she wants to stay married

until she finishes her MBA

degree wow to complicate things my

family oh

nice to complicate things my family had

agreed to pay for her degree when she

started the program as an early inheritance for me oh this guy's is a is an honor

student I think she only wants to stay

for the free tuition what should I

do if I had a beard I'd be stroking my

beard on this one because this is

Ridiculousness I I I don't mean this to

be mean Jade but we're doomed just as a

society this is bananas bro your wife

left you she asked you for

divorce there's a there's a

[Music] word oh boy okay um dude listen it's not

good if you say yes to this you got to

bounce with an ounce you have to uh

brush your shoulders off she left you she left you and um there's so much complexity

here yes don't pay for the wife that's

leaving you that's divorcing you don't

let her take part of your inheritance I this whole thing is such a mess um yes I

would stop tuition payments how about that let's just start there for God's sakes yeah if you're not the gravy train

ends like at that point like if you if

you get divorced you don't get to say oh and will your parents please still pay for my you know it's like be it's a

Golden Corral and you cash out and you get your ticket and you're walking to the parking lot and then you see him bringing bringing prime rib you don't

get to go back wait a minute wait wait wait I'm going to back a truck up here and take all the prime rib out dude you cashed out you cashed out somebody else

gets the the prime rib that's right you left it's golden cral baby wow this is

this is this is a boundaries conversation I'm guessing John I mean

yeah there's clearly a lot here she can

you don't you don't get both sides of

you can't have your cake and eat it too if she says I want a divorce all right

boom and I definitely wouldn't drag the

in-laws into it no that just makes it

even more messy and if your in-laws hear the story and

they say well that's cool we still want to pay for her um for her

degree a they're they can do what they

want to do it's their money and B if it

is part of an inheritance then it will

come out of a divorce settlement so it's not just going to be free money it will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement and y'all will figure that out in court and I'm heartbroken

for you Wyatt that your wife wants to divorce you I hate that for you man I

just hate it I hate it I hate it I hate it yeah this is sucks and if I could be

ridiculous for a moment her timing was

terrible I mean like it she must feel

some type of way like if I'm like gosh

let me I want to finish my MBA but I

don't want to tell him I'm well there's also the other side of this that like Wyatt cheated five times and she finally

says I'm out but I'm getting my my my we

don't know we that's the thing about these questions we never know you could you know throw a lot of different

wrenches into this subject but at the end of the day it's like if you say you're done you're done here here's the best way to to think of it the moment somebody says I'm divorcing you from

this point forward this is no longer a

romantic relationship this is a business

transaction period it has gone we we we

got married we signed a marriage contract for this reason this is how

we're going to set separate everything it is a business proposition from this point forward when somebody throws the dword and says I'm divorcing you MH cool

then that's how we're heading along this moving forward can I ask you a question yep um I'm not trying to trip you up in

any way so on the show on the show we talk a lot about um money obviously and

we always say that you know one of the main causes of divorce is money fights and money problems you're a person who's in this

knee deep all the time is where does it

start I I think we I mean I think it's

both ends so we say money is a symptom

and I'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row yeah of just

whacked out just what's going on here we

say that money is a symptom and I think

it Contin so let's take abuse and let's

take just evil and put off to the side

that's outside the bill curve in this conversation right there's abusive people and there's terrible people we know that I don't think most people are

abusive most people are terrible I think most people are um

unintentional and they have a picture about what they want their life to look like and they just assume that the

person next to them that they married is going to absorb into that picture not

knowing that that person has a picture of what they're life is going to look like and vice versa and so here's a good

example in my house is something so tiny

that happened recently um we have two

dogs and then we just I got my daughter

a little it's like a gremlin dog so now we

have three and they fight and scream and

run around I got to where dinner time

was frustrating for me it just felt like so much MH and I wasn't being the dad

that wanted to be I was finding myself snippy I was finding myself just like hey can y'all once we backed out and my

wife and I and she's like hey man dinner's like a sacred time we always just come here and exhale it's where we laugh it's these three dogs that we took

from outside I run it around underneath the table we put them in a kennel now during dinner and man just made a clear

choice but it was unintentional and what

was happening was I didn't want to come to the table my wife didn't want to be

around to grumpy me so it's easier hey

we're just going to grab we're going to grab chickfila on the way home right and so it happens by teeny tiny degrees and

turns out it's the dumb dogs running around the table so it's a lack of intentionality and a lack of saying hey this is a thing for

us you want this I want this how do we choose to make this happen oh we can just do that that's easy it's a lack of

intentionality when you're not intention about your money then suddenly I'm buying this you're buying this you borrowed this I want to buy this and now we have two different worlds but we live

on the same couch and then it implodes

right so money fights are a symptom of

two people that have not aligned their pictures and not aligned their values

and have not committed we're going to sh we're going to forego short-term pleasure for a long-term vision of what

the world we want to to build together

and it sounds like they've chosen The Wrong Enemy to direct their that's right

their guns at right that's right yeah and so going back to the previous

call you make a choice you make teeny

tiny choices along the way that gets you

this final choice you do that with your money you do that with your physical health right like my buddy Lane Norton

didn't just wake up one day and win Worlds he started 20 years ago lifting

weights right every day I got to it's

the same thing getting back right that's

the beauty is if you will own you and I

both made choices to choose a miserable

marriage then you can both make choices

to choose something amazing that's that's what where the that's where the the light in the darkness is you can choose something else it's nothing is inevitable unless unless outside of abuse nothing is inevitable you can

choose something different together it's amazing I love that John see this is

this you add a lot to the show John and

and I love picking your brain on stuff

like this cuz you just have a different perspective um and by the way I believe

in people I really do man I like that I

like get in host with you um I have to I

kind of wanted to go to John for a minute but I also want to let you guys know before this hour ends that this

hour is about to end if you're listening you know on your favorite platform but

if you want to keep watching the show and keep finishing this specific episode

keep hearing from John keep hearing from me you got to head over to the Ramsey Network app in order to finish the show

um if you're on the radio you can you can just keep listening it's still going to play uh more calls are still coming

up we've got Christian from Madison Wisconsin we've got Carol from Sacramento we've got a a truck driver

who's you know living out of his semi TR coming up uh we've got a woman Ashley

she wants to know if she should use the money uh that she has uh to get a car or

to pay off debt so we've got really great calls coming up I'm going to pick John's brain a little bit more um but

again the Ramsey Network app is the only place that you're really going to get the full episodes of the Ramsey Show

like you used to like you're used to hearing so you got to go over to the app if you don't know where it is you can search ramsy Network in the app store or

on Google Play that's the way to find it

and by the way we're still working on the app we're every day we're doing things to make it better uh make that experience the best we can for you we just started this so it's kind of cool you guys are in on the ground level and we're here we're happy you're here with us uh but again don't miss what's coming

up next head over to the Ramsey Network app and it'll be me and John we'll be in our same clothes same shirt same pad

finishing up the show thanks for hanging

out with us this is the Ramsey

[Music]

[Music]

Show caller

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird okay I I I got nowhere to go so you need

to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

---

## 215. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 24, 2024)


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| **Video ID** | `BXg22CvpwTk` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXg22CvpwTk) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:17:27 |

---

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

[Applause]

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships I'm Dave Ramsey

your host George Campell Ramsey personality number one bestselling author of the book Breaking Free from broke and co-host of the smart money

happy hour Ramsey Network production

he's my co-host here open phones at8

825-5222 as an

electrician um doesn't have a lot of

debt but he is uh asking about tax lean

investing um I guess his goal is

obviously to make some more money but

also to get into real estate uh I guess

a little easier in a way but I just kind of wanted to know your take on tax lean

investment okay he's asking you about

it well he

okay so he's telling me what he's

thinking about doing okay how old how

old is he he's 24 okay all right um This

falls in I can explain to you what it is

and how it works and I'm happy to do that for the especially for the benefit of our audience but it let me tell you

where he found it he found it on Tik

Tock with the get rich quick easy

nothing down real estate people

okay that that's where he found

it because that's the only place anybody

talks about this subject and they do it

to get clicks and Views because it sounds amazing and it sounds too buy their course for $3,000 on how to get

rich buying foreclosure real estate and doing tax Lans okay right and by the way this is

the same exact line they used uh wait a

minute Kristen how old are

you I am 43 okay you're barely old

enough to remember infomercials you

remember those I do okay it's the same line they

were using back then the only difference

now is it's cool because it's on Tik

Tock okay and it's on Instagram and it's

on whatever but it's still the same

genre of stuff can you buy a piece of

real estate at foreclosure at a bargain

yes I used to do it for a living in my

20s and I bought a lot of real estate

since then that was distressed in one

way or another at a deal it is however

one property out of

200 we consider 200 properties to buy

one okay it's not like I walked out my

back door and the sun came out and I

looked over there and there was a foreclosure and I bought it it is actual

hard work expertise needle in a hay

stack okay can you buy tax leans and turn them into

real estate and into profit yes the

likelihood of your 24y old doing it is

really close to zero it's really

complicated it only works in a couple of

States here's the way it works some states will sell if someone's behind on

their property taxes the state or the

municipality the local Village or city

takes a lean on the property for back

property taxes they sell that to someone

in some states my state they do not do

that you can't buy tax leans in Tennessee okay but they they so if I

lived in Tennessee I'd have to be buying them somewhere other than where I live problem number one okay problem number

two is you're buying a tax lean okay now

let's say that you foreclosed on the tax

lean and the people that owe the pro

that own the property do not pay off the

tax lean and you end up with the

property the property is worth

$250,000 and they have a

$270,000

mortgage you know what you got nothing

honey nothing got you got a $250,000

property with a $270,000 lean on it you

don't want that it has no value okay so

you would have to find a property tax

lean that is delinquent on a property

that actually has Equity oh now we've

really made this difficult oh and wait a minute almost

all of these states with property tax leans have a two-year or a one-year

right of redemption now let's take this a state further you find a piece of property needle in a hay stack that actually doesn't have a lean on it

probably not in your state of Texas I'm

pretty sure Texas does not sell them and

so um then you've actually buy this

$250,000 property maybe it's only got a $100,000 mortgage on it

um now you've got $150,000 in equity but

you got to pay the $100,000 mortgage to

keep the property that you just became the owner of or they'll foreclose on

you follow me oh wow okay this is a

problem and then on top of that youve

become the owner of it but the the old guy that didn't pay us taxes has one year or two years to come back and redeem it for by paying the taxes plus

10% or 15% interest so you can do

absolutely nothing with that property except pay this mortgage payment for the next year and a half to two years and you're 24 years old this is

suicide oh yeah absolutely okay can it

be done yeah you need a real pile of money a lot of patience a lot of expertise and the ability to do a lot of

work to actually find this needle in a

hay stack um and so can you do it I've

actually bought two of these in my life I've owned about 2,000 pieces of real

estate in my life and I have actually

bought two of these and as you can tell

I've done it I know how it works it's a

freaking nightmare I'm not buying one ever again

I haven't done it since no thank you too much trouble too much risk da too much

time frame I hope I explained it well

enough that it sound does sound like a barrel on of Fish Hooks George so Texas has redeemable tax deeds so it's

different than you're right there are no you can't buy tax leans but you can get these redeemable tax deeds and you're right there's a Redemption period they can come back house they do sell

so it's a little yeah it's a little different but it does not clean the title people meaning if there's a

mortgage on it it stays there property

tax foreclosures in zero States clean

the title if a first mortgage forecloses the

second and third mortgage are now wiped

out it cleans the title you get a clean

title if you buy a foreclosure in a

second mortgage position you inherit the

first mortgage if you buy a property at

a tax tax lean sale or create a tax lean

sale you inherit all the mortgages

including the IRS leans from the goober

who also didn't pay his IRS taxes

because he didn't pay his property taxes you think these things might walk hand in hand you can bet they do I'm guessing

the house could be in disrepair as well yeah think we Haven paid any of our

taxes or our mortgages and we're so far

behind that and and then I'm going to

sit there and maintain the house pay all

these bills for two years and then he can come back and redeem the thing for

10 cents over what I paid for it no

thank you and if this was a money-making scheme there's going to be Banks head fund managers Real Estate Investors with Deep Pockets going after these got some

competition it's been going on for years

people and people I will say again it is

possible to go down this rabbit hole and

get out with a handful of money but it's

just it's juice ain't worth the squeeze

it's a 24y old got on Tik Tok and thought he found a way to make easy money and I'm just here to say no you

you'd be better off delivering pizza you'd end up with more this is the ramc

[Music]

show hey you you guys I'm not a fan of

the big Banks and you probably already

know which ones I mean but I do like

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Ramsey to learn more and while you're

there look at the combined checking and

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

George camel Ramsey personalities my co-host today Ryan is in Grand Rapids hi

Ryan how are you

good how are you guys better than we deserve what's up so uh I'm about to graduate my um

with my bachelors um in computer

networking and I'm just looking to figure out how um if I'm good enough to

get married or get engaged I have about

3K in um savings I'm about $25,000 in

debt um so is um she uh and I just I

make about 800 bucks a week for right now but I do have a job lined up after I

don't know the exact pay but I know it'll be above six 2000 a job L job

lined up after what after I graduate when are you

graduating again December okay when are you thinking

about getting married this winter hopefully after

after December engaged after December I

plan like maybe like early um either

January or February for the engagement and then August for the actual ceremony

so by then you will have been working eight months at a $60,000

job m mhm and you have a $25,000

debt correct and um I just didn't know

if I should start attacking the debt first before I like buy a ring or do I

wait until I have the ring and then start working through all of the debt well how long you guys been

dating a year and a half a a year and a

half was yesterday have you guys talked about marriage at all a lot yeah what's

her financial situation um she is a CNA she works um

she works there and she has an apartment she also is about 20K in debt and then she plans on going to community college

in the winter to go for nursing okay so

what is your all's plan and view of debt

and budgeting going forward if you're married uh we're both we both listen a

lot to you um and I my parents are also

um like use your way to get out of debt

um with their small business and stuff so we know the right way to do it it's

just about when do we start doing going through those steps do we get married first or do we do it individually and

then get married and we know the we both

have the same philosophy of combine everything it's us it's us it's us not

you and me well each of you would be doing the

baby steps on your own and then as soon as you're married we combine finances and we attack it together and it usually goes faster at that point so if you wanted to say I'm not going to pay off the debt I'm going to save up to get a ring we're going to save up and cash flow the wedding and then we're going to attack this debt together you could do that as long as you're aligned on the

the belief and where you're going that's

all that matters I don't care how broke you are when you get married okay what I care about is where

you're headed not where you are okay now if you're broke and

planning to and she's planning to get broker or you're planning to get broker

like you know I I think I'm going to make $800 for the rest of my life um you

know I'm going to be her dad and tell her not to marry you m yeah until you get up off your

butt earn some money but you got a good job lined up you're graduating she's got

a career move lined up we're going to knock out this uh combined $20,000 worth

a debt with a combined $100,000

household income next year uh when

you're married yeah I think that's a wonderful thing so um obviously the ring

doesn't need to be anything super fancy but um you can always upgrade later yeah

well I did yeah Sharon Sharon married me

with a spec it was so small it was

unmeasurable now it was actually a point

2 three karat which means you needed a

magnifying glass to find the freaking

thing um we said it in the safe the

other day and thought we lost it it just

disappear it's that small well the one

she has now I've seen it it's blinging

it's a headlight now yeah but that's 40

years later and one bankruptcy later so

she gets whatever she wants now but yeah

you can get married by the way there is zero research on the size of the ring as

a correlation to the quality

and uh uh constancy of the marriage the

success of the marriage as a matter of fact there might be an inverse correlation so I thought I saw that with how much you spend on the wedding like

you spend an inordinate amount on the wedding could hurt the chances there's something there inordinate amount on the ring same thing but uh but there's no

there's no actual data on it it's just U

but lots of people got married with um

very inexpensive weddings and very inexpensive rings and have a long wonderful life together Barbara's in

Atlantic City hey Barbara how are

you I'm good Dave how are you better

than I deserve what's up thanks for

taking the call okay I um recently got

engaged um we're an older couple and my

fiance has a home um on a in a Shore

town uh he's had it for about 30 years

but he has a reverse mortgage on

it um I saw the paperwork

and he owed I guess it said that the

total for the the reverse mortgage right

now is about

386,000 that was in July good

lord well I'm not done um I know he was

in a lot of credit card debt but um

someone's helping him get out of

that um I saw him right in front of me

cut up one of his credit cards he works

four days a week he just got taken down to two days a week and is upset and

anxious and nervous

and um I think in New Jersey if I was to

when we were to get married it's half I'm a little nervous

excuse me everything's half credit cards

I guess this home equ see the thing is

is that being in a short town if he was

to sell the house he would get over a

million dollars for it so he could get

out of the reverse mortgage but he'd

have to move and he doesn't want to do that so he's trying to reverse the reverse

mortgage

now so my question is should I walk

ahead into this thing I'm a Christian

he's a Christian and I'm just not sure

if we should hold off on the wedding or

I would like to sit down with someone the two of us some realtor mortgage person that I know

rather than go with he had already gone

with somebody who I never heard of and I

think they're not even accessible you

know you get them through the phone or some you know something like that you're

so quiet well what is it you're wanting

to accomplish here I'm

confused well I want I love this man and

I would like to see us spend the rest of

our lives together it sounds like to me

that he has a pattern of financial

irresponsibility and not working much

how old is he 75 okay well that's understandable

then that he's not working a lot um he's

past retirement age so to speak um and

how is he how is if he took out a $300,000 traditional mortgage to pay off

the reverse mortgage on this property

how is he going to pay the

payment well I think that's what he's

upset about now is because he just lost

two days out of the four days that he's

worked and of course he has Social Security working those four days how would he pay that payment through that and Social Security

so he's making plenty of money in the four

days I don't think so do you know what

he makes what does he do for work I um

he works at a furniture store a seashore

furniture store you're talking about a $4,000 a month house payment here he's

going to lose the house so I think he need there's no well he wants to keep it

he doesn't want to sell it he has to sell it he's broke in

75 so you're going to be signing up for

some of this money stress and you can choose to do that I don't think he's going to be able to pay this thing off with his income and his

lifetime I don't want to do

that I don't want

to you know I I just when you get

married you're signing up for all of his problems and he's signing up for your problems not legally but

morally you're not your name's not on

the 20 years I've been walking with you and following you and I own my own home and

I have an IRA and I don't have any

credit card debt I mean I'm not so if you got married and you moved into your house and sold his house what's wrong with that he he doesn't want to do that he I

know he doesn't want to do that but he can't pay the

payment he doesn't have the money to

from from the sh don't care if he's in

the corner of the Empire State Building he can't pay the payment

it doesn't you no no nothing being on

the shore magically creates money into

your hand to pay the monthly payment you have to pay the monthly payment or you have to get rid of the property and so yeah this reverse

mortgagees bit him in the butt now

that's what it amounts to you don't get to reverse the reverse mortgage it doesn't work like that the only way you reverse it is you pay payments go get a

new Mortgage and pay that one off with the old one refinance it and then you've

got a$3 or $4,000 month house payment

that he can't pay that has to be solved

for both of your sales this is the Ramsey [Music]

Show hey guys it's Rachel Cruz just

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and healthc Care is no exception so if

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[Music]

[Applause]

thank you for joining us America so glad you're with us George camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today we're so

glad you're here hey we're going on the

live like no one else Cruise setting sale March 22nd the 29th over 90

something per of our cabins are full but

we have a couple left if you want to come you can still get a suite on the

get a state room on the Holland America's uh one of their newest ships

and it is a premium Caribbean cruise

only going to be Ramsey people on the entire ship her and Kos Puerto Rico St

Thomas the Bahamas all of our Ramsey

personalities all seven of us will be on there all week long and my wife Shar will be with us the whole week and stevenh Curtis Chapman uh comedian Trey

Kennedy now this is a big deal Trey

Kennedy's like world big deal world

class chef from the Food Channel manit

Shan she's also a big deal and by the

way Steven K Chapman's a big deal and so

is Dena Carter and they're all going to be there and others all week long so

it's our friends are coming to hang out with our friends it's a good thing

Ramsey solutions.com Cru check it out

Josh is in Greensville Greenville South

Carolina hi Josh how are you doing good

how are you Mr Angie better than we deserve man what's up well um I'll keep it brief um so me

and my wife are actually in about 20K

worth of debt and uh we weren't in this

shape last year but circumstances kind

of changed for us and uh we've got three

credit cards two have pretty high

interest on them and we have a car that

we bought when we actually had a bit of money we paid cash for and my question

was do we sell the car to pay off those

two high interest rates cards and then

turn around and then throw everything extra at that other card it has no interest on it and it's a low payment

okay so wait a minute you were debt

free and then you ran up $20,000 on

credit cards yes sir and now you want to sell

the car that's paid for that has no payment in order to knock out some of the Cs yes sir okay why do we why do you

believe the stupid has left your

house well I'll put it this way um I'm a

Christian born again and I had to repent

of my money mismanagement along with

some other things um loving my wife like

Christ loves the church being one of the others I've kind of got a hold on that

one or at least I'm putting forth the effort not just saying I'm trying now

and uh TR in my heart do not want to go

back to where we were last year what did

you spend this money on

man well we sold our house we had got it

under a previous administration for a very low price obviously the administration changed and we were able to make uh profit after the mortgage and

everything about 990,000 and debt-free

with 90,000 in our savings account and

through pretty much taking that um well

it what 90k Josh what did you spend

$20,000 on with credit cards oh um so we

live in a rental and we pay rent by

pretty much working on it and what do

you spend on the credit

cards well about 8,000 of it was home

redecoration anding okay I don't know how you don't

own exactly and then the rest of it was

dumb decisions what happened to the 90k

in profit there ain't anything here that's been a smart decision what was the dumb

decision well pretty much everything uh

that we spent that money on was Dumb and

the bad thing is I've been a listener for okay here here's here's why we're

asking let me stop here's why we're asking this H if you don't stop what put

you into the credit card debt and you sell the car you'll

repeat the

pattern so right yeah so I need the two

of you as a couple to go through Financial Peace University we're going to pay for it so that you guys really

get a handle on doing a budget together

and not spending any money that you don't have and please don't ever spend

money to fix up someone else's

house ever again I agree ever again

there is no situation that that makes sense none whatsoever um I agree and so

um and anything we're going to buy from

this point for we're going to pay for it now what's your household in

come uh currently we make about

3500 a month yes sir okay and so only

one of you is working um my wife works part-time she

works mornings and then do you have children I watch yes sir we have an

18mon old and have another all the way

good for you that's exciting okay sounds

like you need to work on your income side of the equation too don't you yes

sir okay I'm actually uh trying to get

two part-time jobs as well one for the morning before my work or my wife's work

and before mine and then one in the evening as well good for you those applications are pending that's a good start and then we need to say okay what are we going to do that makes me 60 70 $80,000 a year what do how are we going

to move into that in the next year and a half to two years so we don't work part times the rest of our life to

survive right and I think you take your

side hustles right now and you pay off the 20,000 and you keep the car yeah

paying you know getting rid of the car it's not freeing up a payment and so all

you're doing is leaving yourself without a car without changing Behavior exactly

exactly so you hang on we'll have the team pick up and get you signed up for

Financial Peace University and the every dollar premium both is our gift now the

two of you as a couple sit down and work on that and that's going to tell you I got to work on my income and I've got to

work on my outgo we don't buy anything

else we can't afford cuz here's a sad

story I think I just heard we sold a

house made a bunch of profit and now we

have pissed it all

away that's what I just heard and so now

with a brand new baby we get to start

again and when we had $100,000 in our

pocket earlier 90 anyway so yeah the car

is not your problem honey your income is your problem your lack of management is

your problem and you're no you're like a

dog I used to have you don't have an off button for spending dog would eat itself

into Oblivion I mean you just if you put

food out it it would get so fat it was

just it did not have an off button for food it just eat and eat and eat some

people some people that way was spending you just Spin and spin oh now we can't do it anymore look at that and now we got the credit card looks like unlimited food to the dog exactly that's exactly right we just keep racking it up doesn't have an off button it will run your butt up into debt I mean it'll act like you're in Congress or something that's what's going on there Madison's and boyy

hi Madison welcome to the Ramsey Show

hi thanks for having me sure how can we

help um okay so I'm recently divorced

after 14 and a half years we have thank

you um long time coming but it sucks

obviously um three boys 108 and six and

I have 5050 custy um so basically we are trying

we've been trying to sell the home um

and both moved in I moved into a rental home and he moved in an apartment and um

it's been for sale for almost 2 months

and it may end up in foreclosure um we both don't want a

foreclosure on our record and

technically I guess foreclosure we could end up having to file for bankruptcy or something like that and my ex doesn't want to do that because it'll ruin his business and I mean I don't want to deal with that either what do you owe on the

house um 512,000 for the first loan and

27,000 on the second loan what's it on

the market for at 540 the lowest just just enough to

get out huh yeah we're pro we would

probably have to put 5 to 10,000 to

close on it um right now okay so when we

got the home I was making over 100

110,000 and now I don't know my I've

been dealing with a lot of mental emotional stuff and I don't have a stable I have I went from a fulltime job

to working from home doing my own bookkeeping what what were you doing at the full-time job um I was controller

then I was Financial accountant and I

was just way overworked and burnt out

and couldn't handle it anymore so I wanted to go back to working from home

and I if I was to guess if I was caught

up in on everything and not behind I was

I'm probably making four to 5,000 right now but I have multiple um monthly I mean but I have

multiple clients um that I could start

in October husband make uh I have no idea what he makes how

far behind are you on the house

two months okay the second mortgage

won't foreclose the first will the second mortgage will then come after you as an unsecured note you're going to be

bankrupt but you're going to have more problems on top of this if you guys don't get the house sold that is where

you are so I suggest both of you make

all you can make and make these payments till you can get this thing sold it's going to be a bigger mess if you don't handle it sorry

[Applause] [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

our question of the day is brought to

you by we why refi I'll get it out in a

minute politicians make a lot of promises and sometimes they might even keep one or two of them but if you're in

over your head with private student

loans you can't and shouldn't rely on

the government because they're private student loans contact why refi they

refinance defaulted private student

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paid off go to Y refi.com Ramsey that's

the letter yy.com Ramsey might not be in all states

today's question comes from Ian in Maryland the Federal Reserve cut

interest rates recently how long will it take for people to see any real impact from that decision also my high yield

savings account is paying me over 5%

should I expect to see that rate to start coming down in your opinion which rate is more important to the economy the rate we pay to borrow money or the rate we get paid for saving money few

layers in this question let's start with the first one how long will it take for people to see any real impact from the

Fed rate Cuts well it depends on the

type of debt um mortgages are going to

take longer to be affected it's not a direct relationship whereas things with

variable rates credit cards student

loans car loans will be impacted sooner

rather than later well my experience is credit cards

don't move at all they charge a bazillion dollars in

interest and they will continue to charge exactly a bazillion dollars in

interest 18 22 24 28% whatever it is and

they don't move that up or down based on the Fed rate the Fed rate is what banks borrow money from other banks at it's

the wholesale banking rate okay so if your bank is paying less

to borrow money from another bank then

they don't have to charge you as much

interest on the debt that they are issuing so local bank or Bank

debt credit cards are not affected at

all maybe home equity loans might see a

little movement maybe car loans might

see a little movement as George said

mortgage interest rates are not determined by the FED at all they're determined by the bond market now they generally follow the FED but they're not

they're not directly connected in any way it's just trending prevailing

interest rates is all that drives that

and so a half a point drop by the FED 45

days before a national presidential

election [Music] H which basically does nothing is what

I'm saying it's not going to affect your

high savings account probably at all

half a point it goes from five if it goes from five to two yeah your high Yi

old savings account is going to go back down where it was when things were two right but right now you're not going to

see all it was is it's just great and

interesting political

timing when the economy is like probably

the number one political issue whether the

candidates realize it or

not it's not some of the other stuff

they're talking about it's the economy

we know because we're talking to you and

you tell us all the time the things I'm concerned about they're not talking about up there I'm concerned about $5

gas $5 eggs and 7% mortgage rates that's

what I'm concerned about and so this one

thing this move right here is is actually touching on the number one item

in the political landscape today very

difficult to find in history a troubled

economy reelecting a party to the White

House they usually get booted from the

White House they get their little eviction notice by a bad economy either

side Republicans are in bad economy

Democrats come in vice versa right we

see it happen all is that the old saying people vote with their wallet they do

what affects them and their house they do so that that's what this move is about and so the actual truth is um Ian

it's not going to make a lot of difference in anything you're seeing number one it's only a half Point uh your high yield savings account will follow it because the when your bank is

paying you to save money with them they

are borrowing money from you at

5% if they can borrow money from another

bank bank at 2% they're not going to pay you 5%

anymore so when the prevailing Fed rate

goes down lower than your high yield

savings account substantially they're not going to borrow money from you anymore because they can borrow it from somebody else wholesale cheaper but

right now the Fed rate is fairly close

to your high yield savings account even with the half a point drop so they're probably not going to monkey with it much but when you're saving money in a

bank remember what you're doing is you're loaning money to the bank at that interest rate

and that helps you tell why they're willing to pay that interest rate and uh because they're borrowing

money and they can then loan back out

approximately 12x whatever their deposits are

according to FDIC guidelines and so if

you put $1,000 in there that all if if

you loan them $1,000 at 5% that allows

them to loan other people $22,000 at

higher interest at a at at 7% on the

carit on the car loan and they make the spread on that and that's exactly how banking works it's really not much more

complicated than that uh bernon is with

us in Lexington Hi bernon how are you

not too bad how are you Dave better than we deserve sir how can we help so I'm a single dad struggling to

put food on the table for my

kids um I don't have any credit card

debt I do have a auto loan um that I'm

majorly upside down on um I've got about

$4,000 in medical debt

um and probably the most embarrassing

one is I haven't filed any taxes in the

past the this coming season will be

three years I just have not had the

money to file them and I'm tired of living paycheck to

paycheck ends are not meeting I make

about $80,000 a year I should not be

this broke I just I need some

help okay when were you divorced

um about six years

ago okay and you've never really taken

control of your whole life since then

it's all kind of just happened to

you yeah I I've I've never been taught

how to manage finances I don't know anything about it yeah but what you described to me was you've been

coasting yes just today you took a step

to try to figure out how to fix it but been coasting yes 0ar in the bank at before

every paycheck yeah and $80,000 you

ought to have some money shouldn't you yeah you should yes are you

self-employed I don't know um I work as a 1099 contractor yeah

okay that's what I meant yeah yeah okay so um well the the first

thing we do is we get on a written Game

Plan called a budget and we make every

dollar that comes in behave and starting

this month you're going to set aside

25% of every dollar that comes in to pay

your

taxes so if you get a $1,000 check

you're going to take $250 and put it in the savings account to pay your quarterly estimates on your taxes and

then you're going to do a budget with the remaining $750 per thousand follow

me okay you'll make every dollar behave

and you're going to withhold on yourself

because you have no money in the bank to pay three years worth of taxes this is a

problem right and I'm guessing you're

going to have somewhere around $60 80,000 in taxes on these three years

you've been making 80 a year of those three years uh pretty much yeah yeah okay so

you probably got you know 60 Grand going

to be old plus penalties right okay so now here let me

you have a tremendous responsibility as a single dad that people do not get put

in jail in America for not paying their

taxes they do get put in jail for not

filing them so you have 24 hours my friend to

get at Ramsey solutions.com and click on

tax ELP Endor local provider for someone

in your area to sit down and you get

those taxes filed I don't want you let

away in bracelets at

connect I hope I'm scaring you

2571 people went to jail last year for

failure to file it is a law it's a criminal law not

paying is different you can get away with not paying you can't get away with not filing get your freaking taxes filed

now and then get on a budget and we'll

walk you through the rest of this hang on we'll also send you a copy of Total Money Makeover and help you with the money part of this you got to get on this buddy

[Music]

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

[Applause] today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show we

help people build

wealth do work that they love and create

actual amazing relationships George

camel Ramsey personality number one

bestselling author of the book Breaking Free from broke he's my co-host today

and also the host of The George camel

show on the Ramsey networks you'll see him on YouTube be sure and check it out

open phones here at8

825-5222 better than I deserve what's

up okay so long story short I'm gonna

make it quick my husband and I are in our early 40s we did things a little bit

backwards but we're debt free now we

have about a total of 220 or so in

401ks however um about 125 or so is in

Old 401ks from old

jobs what is it or when is it um good to

roll the into rth so that we don't end

up paying taxes on Gross and requirement

on distributions when we get to that

point you're asking end a million

dollars this is great question really

smart you're on top of it kiddo way to

go so when you said debt free do you

mean your house no no no no I wish household

incomes what um about 130 okay all right so the

original question when do I roll a IRA

or a 401k an old 401k you can't touch a

current 401K into a Roth and create the

tax bill so we move $100,000 over there

we create a tax bill of

$25,000 okay now if you take the 25,000

out of the IRA and therefore only end up

with 75,000 in the 100 25 goes out for

taxes and out of a 100 right and you

leave 75 in there the 75 will only

grow it it it's a break even the 100

would have grown to enough to pay your taxes although you'd had the rmds so you

shouldn't have done that one so you

don't take it out of the actual account

to pay the taxes number one you would move it only when you have the cash

extra to pay it out of your Pock pay the

taxes out of your pocket that has the

mathematical effect of actually investing an additional 25,000 per 100

you follow me okay so if I move the 100

over and don't reduce it now it's

growing tax-free but I got to pay 25,000

in taxes out of my own pocket over here to the side you follow me correct so you

got to have that cash number one number two you need to have been debt free on your house before you do that because it's more important that your house is debt free than that everything's in roths but you'll get there pretty soon okay I think that was the question

my husband's a mathematician so like he

runs the numbers good and so he was but

we neither one of us grew up with any

financial literacy so we are kind of new to real financial literacy okay and so

we're trying to like that's where I think the thing was what what priority

does that make it do we just let it sit for now well this is not a a completely

a math problem it's more of a data

response okay when we study millionaires

we find that the first $1 to5 million of

net worth that they have comes from

their retirement savings and a paid for

house so we typically run into somebody

with like 49 years old they got a

million eight net worth and 600 or 700

of that's their house and 7 or 800 of it

is a retirement account you follow me

which is kind of where you'll be at

50 okay that's about where you'll be

what's left on the mortgage which is just um about 170 yeah so you're gonna

be out of that it'll be gone few few

years you'll have it knocked out so the element that that's what a the profile

of the typical person that getss the first one1 to5 million of net worth um

looks like is is that so I want to take

you there first and then yes you get all

the benefits of having all of your

accounts then when you got extra you got

no debt and nothing to do left but to invest well paying the taxes on a

rollover has the same mathematical effect of having invested so we'll do

the rollovers so like for instance today

I've been in baby step 7 for 30

something years and so I uh I don't have anything but

roths now so now you're just trying to optimize the wealth exactly exactly you

know when you get to my age at 65 or something I'm 64 um 100% of my retirement is in roths

so that does a couple of things one is

not only is it growing completely tax-free and say I live to be 84 that

money is going to be it's going to double like four more times if I don't touch it all taxfree that's pretty cool

I have no required minimum distributions

at 72 and a half now because the

government already got their taxes you

Ross don't have required minimum distributions only traditional so I

don't have to start pulling money out of my account unless I want to oh and

here's the cool part that I didn't even think about when I did all of it and but now I'm getting into it a little bit uh

when you have an inherited IRA you have

to pay all the taxes on the inherited I

traditional IRA or 401K uh in 10 years

under the new secure Act Grand leaves you a million then you got to pay all

the taxes on that the income tax not inheritance tax but the income tax on it

within 10 years so you've got to start

you know you got to start pulling it out and paying taxes on it guess how guess

what myair have to pay on the Roth zero

ding ding-ding so they're going to inherit

Roth IRAs tax-free that are going to continue

to grow infinitely tax free hypothetically if

the laws don't change at all my grandkids could inherit my Roth IRAs wow

can you imagine what they would be worth by then they might be the first trillionaires can you imagine what they

be what those IRAs would be worth by then all growing without the stinking

government's hands on it I mean I didn't

even think about how awesome that was I

just thought I don't have to pay any taxes but now I'm going to leave tens of

millions of dollars completely tax-free

that they not required to withdraw and

by the way they don't need any money they're in all good shape so they can just sit there and watch the stinking thing compound tax-free maybe even a

whole another generation that would be

super cool that's a cool ripple effect

because inherited IAS regardless of whether they come from your mommy your daddy your grandpa doesn't matter where

it came from inherited IRAs that are

wroth have zero taxes this is stinking

cool mathematically you math people

you're going to love that one yeah your your grandkids will love Love The Inheritance they'll love you even more when it's taxfree I'm just saying yeah

it's one thing to get a million dollars from Grandpa it's another one to get a million dollars taxfree from Grandpa

that's just different right there I'm just saying that's generational a Godly Man leaves an inheritance to his children's children why are we doing this we want to change our family tree somebody had to be old man

Vanderbilt somebody had to be old man

Rockefeller somebody had to do it it

might as well be you you can do it so

when she ask a question like that that's

why I think she's awesome well you're thinking so far she's a hero man and I

guess that means you're old man Ramsey

based on your own logic hey not my words

hey you just you you you had to twist

this to something ugly didn't you the

history books will reveal he'll be up there it'll be Vanderbuilt than Ramsay

you need to get me a Commodore hat there

we go I can see you with a monocle later in life you should consider a mon Commodore Ram a monacle I just I need a ship you'll be

so rich one I'm going to if I'm going to be a Commodore I go this is the Ramsey

Show

[Music]

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[Music]

George camel Ramsey personalities my co-host Liam is with us in Salt Lake City hi Liam how are you I'm doing well

how are you guys better than I deserve what's up so my wife started her business

earlier this year and I wanted to ask if

there was some things that we should be trying to help get the business off the

ground uh so far we've only done two

online orders and about 10 per inperson

orders uh we've been doing everything

from social media to in-person

interactions uh and we were we were just

wondering how we can uh help get that

business going what is she

selling so we're doing a lot of uh her

artwork that she does and also some

customized uh like vacation t-shirts or

family reunion stuff is this an Etsy

Shop Shopify Shopify

okay has she tried Etsy

uh she did look at Etsy but I think

Shopify looked a little bit better to

her based on what they offered uh price

per month and uh assistance and helping

getting the website set up okay I say

that only because you want to sell your products where your audience is at and

I've only heard people going to Etsy for these vacation type t-shirts and you

know artwork might be a different story depending on what kind of art she's making there might be a local community where she gets her start but this is

it's not a business where it's instant aneous money starts to rain down from the heavens yes I was aware of that I was

just wondering what we what we should be trying to help get to that

point what kind of

artwork uh it's just mostly stuff that

she does on a whim it's a lot of uh

artwork based off of books and movies uh

and then she does commission artwork as well so is this more in the kind of Pop

Culture world if she went to let's say forums where people love this movie or this book I imagine that would be a better audience than a random Shopify

store hoping people see it yes I imagine

that would be a good good place to start

yeah let's find some Reddit Pages um

let's find some Facebook pages where people are gathering as groups that

around um those types of

things

um okay yeah I I I think you've got to

find this is not something you have you

can throw a broad net on and get a good

respon get a good return on investment

with your marketing dollar it's going to

have to be very targeted and so um you

know we're always asking ourselves where

where are the people where's the customer where do they live who what are they on how can we reach them where are they and

um you know the uh

uh you know what's the demographic and

and uh like George said if there's a a

group of people discussing that movie

somewhere and you drop an offering about

that movie in the middle of those people

well that that's pretty much like piranha that's perfect right but if you

drop it into the general public 98% of

which never heard of that movie you just lost all your money your marketing

dollars and so very targeted very

specific communities that you're diving

into I don't know other than that um cuz

the problem with podcasts or social

media is that it's uh now infinitely

large there somewhere around 2 million

podcasts and uh what is there something

like 26 million Instagram accounts or

something I mean it's just um in terms

of people trying to do business that way

it's not so um you know uh um and I I

you you're you're you know you're lost in a sea of

nothingness out there in those worlds

has she found people who are crushing it in this exact space I believe she has yes I would

study them follow them befriend them

figure out what they're doing and try to replicate it yeah look at Best Practices

there that's a really good suggestion um

if there's an Etsy shop that's doing a

thousand sales a month a lot of t-shirts

on I mean how many millions of people got tshirt on ET my God if you're going

to Disney and you want you know the camel family Disney Vacation well I got

a lot of options when it comes to who makes that shirt a whole lot including

myself I can go to canva and make one and get the Walmart you know iron on and

do it myself so you've got to have some unique value proposition to go here's why mine is better my artwork is that

much better I personalize it in this way

so it's going to take time to stand out and she's going to have to do a lot of research and get involved in a lot of different groups to try to kind of infiltrate and say I have a great

product you ordered family vacation

t-shirts I have not I'm not the type let

me just say that I'm not the target demo for vacation I didn't even know it was a thing so there you go well you've seen

our debt free screamers they get the matching t-shirts a lot of them get them from these you know Etsy themselves that's where that came from and so you know this I think it's the crafty mom Target demographic that's you

need to find okay I guess I'm not going to give Dave

the matching t-shirt I made him this is awkward now yeah that's good George I'm

glad we got that settled open phones at8

825-5222 yesterday about taking over

ownership or um taking over the payments

on the Family Farm um however in my

current Financial State right now um I

don't know it' be a good idea or if it would even be plausible and I not sure

where to go with

it okay the Family Farm your parents

have it yeah it's in my mom's name and her

health has been going down here

um for the last several years what do

you do for a living and uh so I actually

I live in logistics and I found out that I was

back in an application process for the

police force so I jumped out of the

logistics probably a little too soon so

I'm actually in between jobs right now because I didn't want to be out on the road uh if uh law enforcement decided

that they wanted to pursue um or go on

with the application process

um Logistics had you on the road you

were driving truck yes sir okay you call that

Logistics okay all right so you you you

quit your truck driving job because you're hoping the police department comes through yes sir I have uh several

different applications out with different police departments what are you doing for income right now how are you eating uh I was relying on my savings

now I'm working on doing applications um

around town okay and trying to be home

for when they uh go on with the process

okay and your Mom owes how much on the Family Farm uh it's right around 40,000 okay

all right are you going to move

there no I'm not going to move there I

already own part of the property there

free and clear um and all was going to

do is you know take over where the house

is and your home or have a mortgage on your

home uh I rent yes sir okay all right

and so you're going to start paying her

payments either start paying her

payments or she's going to make the payments through me she wants it over in my name in case she has to go to long-term care and I'm not sure that's a

good idea to be honest but I don't know

for sure I need outside information yeah

yeah how much debt do you have

personally uh right close to

100,000 what kind of debt is that if you don't have a mortgage so um I was looking toh start

my own trucking business and I bought a

truck and a trailer that are up for sale now um along with some other stuff that

I'm working on selling and so the truck

that you quit driving was

yours yes yes can you not just start

driving it again until you get the police job I could uh I'm looking for some

local stuff yeah but everything I'm

seeing is all uh either going to be out

for three or four nights or well I mean

they don't give you like 3 days notice

on a police application they give you like 30 days

notice right but one of these is for the

State Police yeah and they do random

home visits they randomly show up and

and you're supposed to be sitting at home 247 no not not not necessarily

sitting at home but you know be relative

close where they can have a essentially

an inperson interview right right close they can come to you real

quick I don't buy this whole process no

I don't either I think you need to get back on the road and get to making some money okay no you do not need to take

over your mom's debt because know it will not help her with long-term care

okay uh you can if you move property to

hide it so that you appear poor to get

welfare nursing home care called

Medicaid uh they have a 5-year look back

and they will undo anything that happened 5 years before and if they

think you did it even before that fraudulently for the sole purpose of getting free care from the government when you actually had the money with your property to pay for it they'll undo it whenever they want to undo it under the heading of fraud so don't do

[Music]

it I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls

I have taken are from situations that

are completely preventable yeah and

what's so hard is I feel like one of

those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills I'm next week yeah how in the

middle of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reup it

because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if

something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking

the time to put the stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so

that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander

for all of our family's needs for

insurance for many years including of course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800 356 4282 that's 800 356

4282 or go to zander.com

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

Solutions on the debt-free stage Maas

and Sierra are with us hey guys how are

you than we deserve Dave love it man

where do y'all live L Lakes Minnesota

just north of the Twin Cities very cool

good for you guys so how much debt have

you paid off we paid off $38,000

308 how long did that take 4 years and

11 months 4 years and 11 months and your

range of income during that time um

155,000 to 190,000 wow what do youall do for a living we're both physical therapists oh

okay wow PT excellent so was the whole

308 your student loans basically with a

Sprinkle of medical debt in there wow

that was ouch yes ouch it was terrible

how long have youall been married

years how long you've been out of school

6 years there we go and almost 5 years

of that has been spent cleaning up the student loans yes so you had one fun year of marriage so far that's and a

great vacation to Nashville to do a

deam so you had the the honeymoon phase

of a year and then you woke up one day

four years 11 months ago and said we got

to clean this up what happened tell us what happened oh we're just looking at

this debt we had a minimum payment of $3,200 a month for 10 years yeah for 10 years and it

was freaking us out and uh one of my

friends who was uh like hey we're taking

this financial peace course and I'm like oh my gosh this is heavily on my mind

and so we yeah we took the course and I

was dead set and I had to snowball my

wife into it a little bit snowball dead

snowball did you not go to the course with him I did but I was kind of against

budgeting at first okay um it felt very

restrictive to be on a budget so 38,000

exactly it it was well which one do I

want yeah which which which of these painful things do I want yes so uh how

far into Financial pce were you before you said I'm on board Sierra oh um well

it took honestly it took about a year

before I was like okay I get what we're doing and why we're doing this okay and

so then I was like okay we'll do we're

just going to go hard game on MH okay

all right good for you so you made more than that $3,200 minimum payment you put

extra at this cuz it would have taken 10 years you said yes to the plan um six

to$ 7,000 must dou your payment you do

it in five under five years that's amazing way to go so you guys were like

living on very little even though you're making great money you were still living like you were broke college kids well we lived in his parents basement that that

whole time so shout out to them for

allowing that and are you gone now yes

we are out yes it's it's beautiful

that's got to feel good that's got to be feel as good as being dead free

yes it kind of feel like this is the

honeymoon now yes it was just

delay wow that's incredible and how old

are you two now I'm 32 and 31 all right

tell people what you think the secret to getting out of dead is well one of the

big secrets I don't know for me is just

like so we're Christians and just like

the Bible says um to be renewing your

mind with scripture every day um to

remind yourself you know of the purpose of your life and day-to-day actions I think that same principle can be applied

to this getting out of debt as well and

just kind of renewing your mind I think through the show or reading your books or things like that so you're kind of you're constantly reminding yourself why

are we doing this instead of inputting

other things like from Tik Tok or

wherever I like that make sure your

inputs are coming from good sources that

are actually improving your life right

what what was the why what was your why

your your big motivator that drove you

so hard uh we couldn't do anything with

that with that minimum payment we just couldn't do anything so we were like

Freedom yeah Freedom yeah I want out yes

yes yeah wow well um if there's a 25y old that's

got $300,000 in student loan debt out there talk to them what should they can

they do it and what should they do oh

they can do it it's just going to take a lot of dedication a lot of ignoring what

your friends are doing and ignoring the

things you want to do as well MH but

knowing that there's better things in

you know in the future we always said

sad now happy later live like no one

else so later you can live and give like no one else I love it delayed gratification you guys did that you lived on way less than you made CU I mean if you're making 10 grand and you're throwing seven at the debt and

you're trying to pay all your bills with the rest you guys really sacrificed but

it's gone now the rest of your friends they're on the 10 20 year plan and you

guys are free in your early 30s it feels

amazing now we're thinking what should we be doing with our mortgage payment with the money should we be rolling it into that what should we be doing now we

used to living on nothing so you take

that same Seven Grand and chucking at the mortgage you'll be completely debt free houseing everything in no time mhm

yeah that's that's a little intense we might lighten up a little off of that these two seem like the intense type if I lived in my parents basement for more than a think a month I might just go crazy so that's impressive that is it's

impressive for everybody involved well done y'all very well done proud of you

excellent excellent work very very good

stuff all right Maas and Siara from

Minneapolis man this is incredible what

a great story

$38,000 paid off in four years and 11

months making 155 to 190 count it down

let's let's hear a debt free

Scream 3 2 1 we're debt

free [Music]

y

wow you know I that's an incredible very

smart very wise beyond their years young

couple I wonder these days with there's

so much in our face about how bad

student loan debt has gotten we're up to

about 1.8 trillion now as you know and

when we did borrowed future I think it was 1.4 trillion or something like that

when we did that documentary a couple of years ago on student loan debt but I

wonder I mean because I'm convinced that

98% of the people that sign up for

student loan debt have no idea what the

flip they're doing and they look up get

married and they go I got $150,000 a student loan debt oh wait so do you

we've got $300,000 this the thir loan

debt oh my God and it's more than a

mortgage payment just to make that minimum student loan payment you're talking $3,200 if you told an

18-year-old that they'd go never mind I don't want to sign yeah wow well because

they don't you know number one we think about us we don't think about getting married and when you get married you double it uh Rachel was talking about

she was at a Christian College speaking and a little couple came up and said

they wanted to be missionaries and they'

got $180,000 in student loan debt and

she said you're kidding oh wait each of

them oh my goodness had $180,000 she's

like you're not going to Africa yeah I mean you're going to be

working you can't make that payment on

missionary money well not no oh my

goodness so it holds back your dreams we're seeing the stats that people are delaying home ownership they're delaying marriage they're delaying having kids all because of student loans yeah parents teach your kids to choose a school you can afford teach your kids to

go into a field at least they the good

news about these two Heroes is they went into a field where they could earn some money uh cuz they're earning you know

almost 100 a piece here which that helped the story considerably um and and they they they

woke up saw it and to their credit said

okay instead of reacting like a victim

to this we're going to react like a Victor and we're going to get in attack

mode and we're going to knock this out

that's powerful and we've got a parting

gift for them we didn't mention but we we got two every dollar premium subscriptions for you guys good for a year piece you can use those you can gift them to someone else because that budget really is the key it's amazing when you go we make 200 Grand where is

it going well the budget shows the shows

you the reality of those numbers and you go hey you know our bills are actually like three grand we could throw the other seven at these debts and what would that do that could get us debt free in half the time and that creates

some hope and momentum that's exactly what it did four years and 11 months Wow

way to go guys excellent excellent work

so that's the you know the moral of story is know what you're signing up for and if you find yourself and you wake up and you have that oh crap moment which

is kind of where they found themselves after graduation then you go what do we going to do we're getting in attack mode

and gazelle intensity they were willing

to do anything run living in the parents

basement that's the equivalent of run in this case that's that's hardcore that's

hardcore for five years this is the

Ramsey Show [Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

[Music]

George camel Ramsey personality is my

co-host today open phones at

8825 5225 fie is with us in Houston

Texas Hi eie how are you I'm great how

are you better than we deserve what's

up um I was calling um

I um so the last two years I've come

been coming out of postpartum depression

I had a couple credit cards that I let

go because I well I was also not working

and I couldn't pay them um my husband

and me we do not we do finances separately um I know a lot of your um

listeners they you know they might be

doing things together but me and my husband have always done things separately um so his dead is his debt my

dad is my dead um that's that's wrong

you shouldn't do that

and um I I don't disagree with you but

um getting my husband on board for anything is always very difficult so

it's

w but I have two credit cards that I

could not pay while I wasn't working and

one of them in particular has been sent to a lawyer and I like I'm they're

knocking on my door um they're Ser

they're serving you with law show papers

exactly so I have um I mean our debt is

considerable considering we have you know we have a rental house um we have

our our PR how much credit card debt do

you have that we're talking about the

credit cards that in con that I'm most

concerned about um it's about 20K okay

what does your husband make and what do you make um so I just started working again

um all probably been making anywhere

from 70 100 um just but it's not 100

isn't guaranteed it's bonus got and then

um what do same about the same um how much other

debt do you all have in the

house um how much other debt other than

the house do you have no no no yeah other than house do you have a more car debt or does he have other debt that he has in his name or what yeah well his

yeah it's it's his name like he has his

credit cards I have my credit cards

cars um so cars together with the credit

card with his credit card or well if I

was to combine both of them it's

12 13 cars or300 a month I I know that's

bad What's the total loan

amount total loan amount

for the your car and his car my car and

his car is 11 1120 11:30 a month no I'm

saying the total loan amount is it $50,000 left on this loan oh oh no no no

no no um I have we both have about

20,000 left on the cars okay so you're

around $100,000 in debt as a couple not

counting your house and you make somewhere around $200,000 a year as a

couple that's about right and you have rental with a mortgage on it uh yes okay all right and you're how

old hun 38 and you have a baby and do you

have other children uhhuh a seven-year-old okay all

right

um and you've just come through two

years of really tough

postpartum yes sir yes okay all right um

you're the same age as my daughter who

has three kids

okay um and uh I think what your husb

usband is doing to you is

abusive that's hard hear yeah as as your

dad I don't appreciate it the way he's

treating my

daughter I'm pretty pissed at him right

now he makes a he makes a

baby his wife is in

postpartum and his answer to it is go

figure it out chick

you're on your own we have our finances

separate I heard in the that they said

for better for worse in sickness and in

health I bet by God when he has the flu

he wants you to make him

soup yeah so this is the core of it you

don't have a $220,000 credit card problem you have a very

serious issue in your relationship

and you guys have you guys have walked along you've walked through the forest with your hands over your ears going la la la la la la acting like nothing happened until something happened and

now the situation that you're in is

revealing how terrible your theory on

handling money

is so the two of you need to sit down

together and rethink your

marriage and saying we're going to love

each other in sickness and in health

we're going to love each other

for richer for poorer we are Mommy and

Daddy we are husband and wife we take

care of each other it's us against everybody else you're not on your own

this is not a joint venture it's not a

partnership and so you really guys

you've really got to Ser rethink your

theories on relationships cuz they're

broken and they're wrong and it's caused

you to be in this situation where your soul is unraveling I can hear the

fear and even almost a sense of shame in

your voice and you didn't do anything wrong other than that as a couple you've

run up the dead so if someone had abandoned my

daughter while she's in po postpartum to

her own devices who was supposed to be

her husband who was supposed to love her and care for her um he and I would

probably be having a discussion about that and it wouldn't be

Pleasant cuz it's not fair and it's not

right the way you're being treated is

wrong hun and I'm I'm begging you to no longer

accept that as okay so cuz instantly

when I take a $200,000 income I can

clean up a $100,000 worth a car debt and

credit card debt when we're working together in a unified

front how fast can we pay off $100,000

George making 200 12 to 18 months Max

yeah this thing could be 100% debt free

and yet we have service PE people serving warrants at your door and you

have a

baby and there's no

excuse there's no reason you're not

broke y just broke in it's just to see

my wife drowning emotionally with postpartum financially with lawyers at

the door and I go well it's her dad it's

her problem I'm not honey they're here

to see you what kind of man does that

I I don't know if I can call him a man

that feels generous there we go there we

go there we go so um it's a crisis folks

it's a problem I'm sorry hun we love you

we love him but we're ready to box his ears right now that's an old southern

term but um anyway not even sure what it

means but somebody's getting ready to get hit in the ear I guess but um anyway

my mom used to say I'm going box your ears what the crap does that even mean I don't even know what that means adding that to had my my ears threatened to be boxed several times I I'm still trying to figure out what trying to find my couldn't find his butt with both hands you never explained that one to me well

that's it's like Southern riddles I got to figure out that's um means you're

pretty limited on your abilities that

mean that explains it just it explains

itself oh fie I'm sorry hun but you guys

really if you guys you understand the

the math in your situation is easy it's

a hot knife through butter you can fix this very quickly when you fix the

reason that it's caused re what caused

it the the the problem the people

showing up at your door are not the problem they're the symptom and I would even go so far as to

be so bold as to say it has contributed

to your postpartum your depression and so um it certainly didn't

make it easier at a minimum uh no

question about it this sense of

Abandonment um and you're on your own

you know no it's not how this works

so um if you guys want our help we would

be honored for you to go through our classes I'll put you on hold and if you

want to sign up I kind of don't think your husband wants to sign up with anything with me right now after I just finished with him but I'm okay with that

too pissing people off is like one of my spiritual gifts cuz folks I love you and

we're going to do one thing around here we're going to love you enough to tell

you the truth this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

he

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

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## 216. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 25, 2024)


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---

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today welcome to the Ramsay show America

thrilled to have you with us this is where we help you win with your money

win in your work and win with your

relationships the phone number to jump in for you Isle 8 825 5225 that's 8 8255

225 I'm Ken Coleman joined by The

Fabulous uh Rachel Cruz joins me it's

always fun when we're together uh we always have some fun calls she'll be our resident money expert today and I'm your

resident work expert otherwise known as

income I'm the guy to help you make more

money Mo Money Mo Problems Money Mo

Problems what they say so we'll we'll talk about those problems that you're having so we always have a good time with itle 8825 5225 you ready to go yeah let's do

this all right very good let's go to Stella in Tucson Arizona Stella how can

we help uh good morning thank you for

taking my call you bet morning in my my

time zone at least um I was wondering

how do I protect myself in a Family

Trust and I can give you a little yeah

tell us a little bit more uh my parents are putting their

property into a trust for all of uh

myself and my siblings uh it's been

mostly completed they haven't finished the final paperwork on it and I'm looking at finishing a house that they started on the property 20 years ago

it's going to be part of the trust is this a good idea and how do I make sure that like I don't get sold

out yeah so will you guys be splitting

their primary home then how many siblings do you have uh I'm the oldest of nine oh wow

okay so so nine of them will be

splitting the primary residents but you're saying on the property is another

home that's your putting money

into yes uh it's actually going to be

the primary home it's they've been

working on it for 20 years um and they

live on a second second home in on the

same property okay okay so with the what

was the what uh for you to be you're

using your own money to fix up this

property yes okay and what was the

motivation for you to do

that uh it's an amazing property um and

the house once completed will be absolutely amazing and we've been

looking at moving and for the cost uh to

finish out this house I I can't even

touch it to buy it okay property similar

yeah I mean I would sit down with the siblings with your well with your parents probably first and foremost and I would I would lay out exactly how much

out of pocket you have put into this

property and that you want to be able to recoup that in the instance of a sale so

if they go and sell the whole property and they sell and they sell both uh

structures if you will right um You

should come out ahead of your siblings

because you're upping the the value of

the property but it's within your own money so uh being able to get that at

least back out do you have good records of everything you've put into it uh we haven't started yet I'm I'm

making sure I okay oh so you've amassed

this money you've got all this money saved up yes and and and how much are we

talking about um to finish out the house we're

looking at 60 to 70,000 okay and how

much could you sell it for like how much would it sell for today versus if you fixed it up that's what I want to know

um well today with the unfinished house

I am not sure what the the value is

because it would based be based off the other home it's a four-bedroom home the

home we're looking at finishing out is an eight-bedroom home right but the question we're asking is and you may not know but this is something I think you can know is to sit down with a really good uh uh real estate professional and if

you don't have one Ramsey we we've got

some great options for you ramsy solutions.com agent uh Ramy solutions.com realestate

we got all these slashes uh the point is

you need to find a good expert to say if

I put 60 to $70,000 into this house what

do I think that is going to valuate the

what will the new value of the property be isn't that what you're getting yeah absolutely yeah and and so let me just

say with home run cuz with how old are

your parents sorry I have so many thoughts uh my dad's in the 70s okay uh

my mom's a few years younger and they'll be on this property until they pass

correct assuming so uh no my mom if my

dad passes first and he's got some health issues um she's gone she doesn't

want to be on the property too far out in the country for her okay okay that's good to know well because I was going to say just for your benefit if I'm going

to be putting 70 ,000 into a property

you know you want to run the comps and make sure that again not only do you recoup that but you get out of it to a

degree I agree um the value because C

you could put 70 grand in an index fund

and make 12% you know what I mean so like this is an investment that you're

making and that needs to be said out loud and I and and it gets messy because

it's a family property um but I would

get all nine siblings on an email and I

would get things in writing the plan of what's going down the more communication

the better so that's in my opinion how you protect yourself in the situation but I mean and it may just because you

love the property and you think it is a really great investment and you work it out with a real estate professional and you really figure out okay this is what

I can recoup and it's worth it on my end

for the energy the time my money yeah I

want to get a good amount out of it but also just no sell it it gets real messy

real fast with redoing properties period

because you're G to get in there and they're going to tear drywall down and be like nope you got black mold and it's GNA cost you know 20 grand more to do

this or that like it can get real

expensive real fast so just know that ahead of time it's gonna take longer and more money and then you put the family

Dynamics on top of it can I have a question it can get messy yeah Stella I may have missed this uh but are you

guaranteed that you're going to get this

house at some point I right the conversation has been

and I've included siblings in this and everybody's on board with us doing this

uh nobody else wants the property right now I didn't ask you I understand that I'm saying but answer my question is it guaranteed

and and and and if it's not in writing

um where is it in the sense that you

personally will take ownership of this house at some point in the future is that guaranteed it's guaranteed that we

can live there I don't have in writing

that it's our house all right I'm going somewhere with this I don't like this

move I wouldn't spend a nickel on this

you called to ask our opinion I personally would not put one nickel into

this home unless you knew and what I

mean by knew is it was in the will or it

is actually transferred to you I wouldn't put a dime into this I just

wouldn't yeah or you guys just outright

buy it and make it your primary res and

you put your money into it right and and redo that's my point I I'm I'm This Is

Me Maybe I'm too cautious I for all the

reasons that Rachel laid out and she's right why I guess here's my question

what in the world would cause you to put any money into this right now when it's so up in the air and it's just too

complicated and I didn't realize you guys were going to use this as your primary residence Stella I thought you were going to fix it up and then when they passed or moved on you guys as a group was going to sell it you're going to move into it save the money invest it

we're planning to hold the trust like nobody's planning to sell at least you

know but are you are you going to move into it you and your your immediate family you and your husband okay so then that's a different deal because now your

that you don't have real estate then under your name and as the years and

decades goes on and that value then then

there's nothing you don't have it you

know to your to your name does that make sense and real estate is one of the biggest parts of your financial don't do

it don't do it you if you want to fix it up and all of that and you guys decide

hey here's what here's what I'm going to recoup out of it here's the growth of it

that's the only that's the only way I would do it I don't think I would buy a

home unless I it was deeded to me and I

bought it out right yeah don't fix up a home that you don't own and the audience listen the audience

Lobby is agreeing with me here save the

money look at them thumbs up everywhere

save the money invest the money and then when it becomes yours Fix It Up watch

fix it up shows if you need to scratch that itch don't do it it's not a good

move sorry to be cranky this is the

ramsy show cranky

[Music]

[Applause]

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life insurance that's a gut punch and oh

you're telling me and for for decades Dave I've sat across people who've lost a spouse they've lost somebody important

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz joins me so excited

that you're with us by the way we have a fabulous fabulous live audience today in

the lobby of ramsy solutions and so uh

come on come all we'd love to see we just took pictures uh Rachel Cruz and I

uh on the break with some folks who travel from Germany unbelievable it was

exciting and they had cowboy boots on

and everything like there so Nashville

one guy was from Minnesota I don't know

how he got to Germany but we're glad he's back uh one one lady was from the

Netherlands maybe a couple and they got excited about my sweater cuz that's what the soccer jersey that's the official jersey color

of the Netherlands uh uh so anyway wow

you're so sporty so athletic I am just

call me sporty kin today just Sporty Spice over here uh speak of sporty

things how about smart decisions I don't know what the connection is to sporty there I tried it didn't work but here we

go so August Rachel we always have these great deals right and so we have a bunch

of great books on sale for only $12

including my book from paycheck to

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a lot of bestselling books all on sale

until August 31st for only four more

days my goodness $12 Ramy solutions.com

store Ramy solutions.com store that's

where you go get them all right Briana

is up in Tampa Florida Briana how can we

help hi um thank you for taking my call

sure um so I actually am trying to

figure out what I should do to kind of up my income I'm considering um

returning back to school but I don't know if that really answer right now um

mainly because I have so much debt that

I'm would like to uh pay off eventually

that's the goal um but I do know that I

have an income problem and I'm just

trying to figure out exactly what to do all right three quick questions and we'll dive in question number one um how

much debt do you have so I have a little

under a 100,000 okay we'll just call it

100K for conversation uh question number

two uh what are you doing for a living

now and how much do you make so I

personally make um $15 an hour I'm um a

thrift store assistant manager and I

love what I do um but I only am able to

work part-time that's what they hired me for um and I'm only making that $15 okay

third question what degree or or what

certificate what are you considering going to school for and what do you

think the potential income is attached

to that so um there's two different options

one would be I would have to go into more debt for sure for um and that would

be like graduating with all these bills

um from it and that would be um nursing

school okay and then and um with nurses

starting here in Florida it's about 75,000 a year okay um and then the other

option would be um to be a marriage

counselor and um I have an opportunity

actually to pay as I go with um my

Church's University and with that um I

would but I would have a bill every month that I would have to pay but I wouldn't be in debt in more debt at the

end of graduation Bill what would the bill be every month it would be

$185 okay and that certificate ban

through your church is that like an accredited uh program that you could use

you it would have to be a degree to do counseling and you could well that's why I'm making sure that it's not something within their church that you can only counsel in their church or something that you can actually use it out in the marketplace as well correct What's the

total bill on that how many years are we talking about um it would probably it

would be four years Alto together so four years let's round it up to two a month so400 a year so we're looking at

about 99500 some nine grand n plus okay

well so couple things number one um

you're broke and you make very little

money so paying for school right now is

not an option it's a pause right that's

a pause I do have other income though

just to say like my husband I'm married

and husb well what's your combined income sorry um so that is roughly about

I'd say $3500 a month what does he do so

he works two different jobs he actually

works at Taco Bell at night um making

$1250 an hour and then um during the day

he actually just started a job this week that is a full-time position working for LifeLock insurance um and it ranges just based on sales and

how many hours he works like he gets bonuses so it ranges from $13 an hour up

to 20 okay all right couple things both

of you need to be thinking about your

talent your skill set and where we can

make the most money with that so let me just take you for an example you're an assistant manager of a thrift store and

you're making $15 an hour and you're only getting part-time hours so you're obviously very good with people yes yes

okay I would be looking for management

positions full-time management positions

in a variety of could be retail uh could

be maybe an office manager I don't know

but the skill set am I organized am I

really really good with people and communicating and serving because you need to be looking at I'm talking about a Walmart job okay which is nothing to

sneeze at uh and let me tell you why I'm

saying Walmart as an example and I'm not trying to hang this on you okay but

right now you're only working to get out

of debt and save money and then

eventually fund your future that's the

order of this right now so let me tell you why I like Walmart okay Walmart is

paying for People's College educations

so you take that thrift store management skill and you go in and go I'll tell you what I'll take the graveyard shift I'll be a manager or I'll go in and I'll start here and I'll work my way into being a manager within six months or a year and I'm making 18 20 22 $25 an hour

somewhere in that range all right and

then they're going to pay for my college

and they'll pay for nursing school uh

this is happening with big companies like this I think target does it as well

check me on that but I know Walmart does it they made a big announcement coming out of Co this is the path for you so no

debt at all the rest of your life but

we've got to increase our income if your

husband by the way has basic skill set

you know what I'd rather do I'd rather him go to a trade school and cash flow through a trade school and he's not working at Taco Bell anymore he's working as an electrician or HVAC and

he's making 30 3540 $45 an hour if you

guys can buckle down and go where are we

able to make the most money in exchange

for our time and then you walk through

the baby steps and I want to Hint it to Rachel to walk through that 100,000 in

debt and have her cast some Vision through our baby steps but I just wanted to preach at you there for for a minute

and I'm preaching in a belief standpoint I believe you guys could be making way better money which will help you pay off the 100 Grand and I think if we focus on

that and you go to a Walmart or another

company like that that may pay for your

nursing I I I just that's coming that's

down the line it's finding other other

options too Brianna because when people say you know and I'll quote it back to you but you said the beginning of the call well if I do this right I have to take on debt if you took debt off the

table and just said okay so now what am I what now what are my options it's going to force you to be more creative to either think okay I need to find another job be patient and safe I need

to find a job that maybe will attri you

know could contribute to my tuition like what Ken was saying um and also being in

an environment Brianna that that has an upward trajectory which is why I like an element like a Walmart or something you can use the same skills but you're going

to continue to raise your income right

and so you know and not there's anything wrong with thrift stores or all of that but I think for a temporary solution it's fine but your long-term career path

for the rest of your life we want

something that you can grow into right and so putting yourself in those positions like what what Ken is saying

um is so great and and I want to encourage you too you know the the world today it is Shifting and there are still

jobs that require a college degree absolutely uh and Fields obviously

nursing you have to go get schooling for or counseling even but there's there are

many companies that are paying you know

40 grand 50 Grand a year and you could

be a personal assistant you can do online I mean you can find a niche

that's right that you don't need a college degree to just up your income in

general now you know our goal and what

Ken's goal is is to be able to you know find something long term for you that you love and are passionate about um but

I I'm with Ken I think in the meantime you guys can find some other options so hold on the line Brian Christian's going to pick up because I want to I want to gift you guys um Ken's whole assessment

and find the work you're wired to do yeah the and and his assessment to to

for you and your husband both to check that out and I think once you get those incomes up then you start really attacking this debt um and you do that

by the smallest amount to the largest amount so hold on the line and Christian will pick up and and get that stuff for you just quick perspective what can we

do to pay off 30 grand a year in debt

that's a goal that would get us to that 100,000 pretty quickly and then we can

move forward on the work we really want to do this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

welcome back to the Ramy show I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz joins me and we are here for you taking your calls about your money your income your

relationships your situations around all

of thatle 8825 5225 is the phone number 8825 5225

John is up next in Orlando Florida John

how can we help today yes um my question is basically uh

to determine if I just have too much cash sitting in in in my core account I

own my home I own my vehicles and I

basically have 92% of uh of my invest of

my money sitting in cash or treasury

bonds how much is that uh about four 4,1

100,000 okay John hold

on little cough you have

4.1 million basically in cash if I heard

that right that's where they're sitting

in cash accounts correct in a cash account with

and then I well and part of that is a

million dollar in in a 20-year treasury

bonds that have bought over the past

year at an average of like 4.82 okay so

about three million is in cash

account correct but are extremely liquid

I you know well yeah so John how old are

you 61 61 okay um what's caused you not

to invest on any level whether that's

real estate or the the market um the

stock market like what's caused you not to invest I've been in real estate I do

have a few retirements accounts that you

know that are in some stocks like Google

and Amazon how much and I start

um the retirement total of 273,000 in

between a rough and traditional and set

okay so no 401K nothing like

that um

well I own some real estates that's will be paid off at that yeah I've not done a

great job with that no no no we're not judging at all we're just trying to get the full picture of the total amount of

money you have available and and so your

opening question was do I have too much

money in cash accounts and the answer is

yes you do we'd like to see you invest

that with our strategy yeah I mean I think you're still a young guy for sure

and I and and just being able to look to

say hey I you know with the the average

growth you know 10 11 12% um what that could get you you know

John your money making money is

basically what it is because right now when you say that that's all liquid is that sitting in just like a high yield savings or is that a traditional savings account where do you have that 3 million

it's like a it's like a Fidelity you

know they have these money markets and they yep the one I'm in Pays 5.27 right

now totally yeah and then the bond the

treasury bonds which has gone way up because those yields have gone down yes

you know it's at 4.82 y so I figured rather than taking

any risk I'm just sitting on the site making 5% right now but that's G to

change yeah but have you done the math

on the on the on the compound interest have you gotten the

game yeah um you're scared what what

what is your this is all fear and there's nothing to be ashamed of but

I've never talked to anybody that told me the story you just told me that's that's astounding it's truly amazing

you're certainly not h in you're 61 you

you got a lot of money in the bank you're safe man you're safe but uh you know you

called us are you starting to feel as though I should probably be investing a

good chunk of this or what where can we

help you because you're just afraid to death of the stock market and mutual

funds and the whole nine yards it's just fear that's driving this actually I've

watched a lot of the shows and uh the

mutual funds seem appealing okay well

we've got a strategy for

yeah I mean for sure yeah so I I think

John are you married yes yeah okay so I mean if I

were you tonight I think you and your wife go buy a nice bottle of wine

because you can afford it and sit down

open it up and you guys start dreaming

dream about hey where do we want to be we're 60 let's just say the Lord's been

good to us and we live till we're 90 we got 30 years what do we want to do with

this money and there's a really interesting book John it's called die with zero I want you to it I don't agree

with 100% of it but it's a very

interesting take oh boy on on and and I

think it leans more in a John's case

right if there is a lot of wealth um

what the role money plays in our life and what you want to do with it because this book argues which I think in your case would work not for everyone listening but in John's specific case

you know that that to enjoy your money

and it's not just spending it all but if

you have kids John and you want to be able to to help them you know do you

wait till you know you you're gone at 90

and your kids are 60 and they you know or is there stuff you can do now you know with them to to help that Legacy

happen in real time uh the the generosity portion you know charity and

and what you give to is there is there more you could be doing kind of in these buckets with the money you have today

while knowing yes you need to live off of this for 30 years um but but but all

I'm saying all that to say you're in a great position just to dream and we say dream and HD like put pictures to words

as Dr John delone said says but you and your wives tonight sit down and just say hey what do we want the next 30 Years to look like cuz the truth is John you get have this call and do nothing and you're going to be fine to Ken's point I mean

you're going to be fine yeah but but I

think also to say Hey what if we grew a

percentage of this um and look for the

next six years and we put it in some mutual funds maybe some you know um

growth in income aggressive growth you know picking out some good mutual funds have have good track records and putting a portion of it and just seeing and then you look up in 5 years reevaluate okay

we like that you know so you can you can step into this I think there's some personalities that are like put all the chips in the middle of the table and we're going all in and we're going to make you know 10 12% starting today and

you could do that I mean if I were in your position I'd lean more towards that but I think it's okay for you guys to kind of stair step your way into it but

but I would really advise you to um sit

down with uh one of our smartvestor Pros

with the smartvestor pro uh because

sitting down with an investment professional in general that's right is

going to be really helpful because also John what's playing in the back of my mind which we don't have time to unpack right now on this call but you know it it is the the tax you know implications

to some of this the estate tax you know all of that I just want to make I want to make sure that you're doing things

specifically in a really wise way that's

going to be the best for you guys in your situation um so if yeah Christian

can um Can can give you that link when we get off the phone and and and interview a couple of them if you if you if you have an investment professional that you love and you trust you know talk sit down talk to them but I think getting someone in your corner that does this day in and day out is going to be

really helpful because I do think I

think you can do a lot with this and I think your money can make money and again not just for the sake of like we're just going to build a bunch more wealth but to be able to continue to live a great and Rich life for yourself

and your family and others yeah and John I I agree with Rachel I think going to

sit down with your wife first and and

and laying out what you want to do with that money where you'd like to see it go have that on paper ready to talk about

when you go sit down with some of these smart Vester pros and as you interview

several of them and talk about it see what their plan is um and then you get

to pick the one you like I really like that but I also want to just hit something for you John and our larger audience Rachel and I just got an email

this morning that was forwarded to us uh

and it was it was from a a local smart

Vestor Pro that we know and uh in short was telling us uh

about a friend of his who passed in his

early 50s of lung cancera Al but the the

the point of the email was is that they had invested a decent sized chunk of

money for their son uh in a 529 in 2012

so here we are just 12 years later and

uh it was an enormous sum of money now

and what he said to us is they got 12%

return over that time period so over the

last 12 years that 529 got 12% return I

just wanted to highlight what Rachel said and John these are not numbers that we're pulling out of our ear uh to be

shock jocks that's a real life story and

I just want to underline that to say imagine the 5% turning into 10 to 12%

that's not a fairy tale and to Rachel's

Point what you can do with that uh over

the 5% I think that's Legacy stuff John

and it's really doable so you're smart guy you're incredibly disciplined and

I'll say being a being a Ramsay at heart

too being in the market but also real estate John you mentioned that you have a proper and if and I mean that's I mean

Dave's very honest on this show that's where a lot of his his money is is so so

there's there's different um proven ways

to grow your money whether investing

traditionally just in the stock market or paid for Real Estate um there's some great Avenues out there to make your money work for you and I think that that's a great goal so thanks for the call John we appreciate it pretty awesome stuff there wow $4 million in a

savings account what's your problem it's

pretty impressive this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken

Coleman Rachel Cruz is joining me this

hour 8825 5225

8825 5225

five all right we go to Atlanta Georgia

now and Jimmy's there Jimmy how can we

help hi thanks for taking my call you

better um I've got um I'm 63 my wife is

52 and we have a household metet worth

of approximately 2.6 2.7 well done we uh

got 400k sitting in a money market right

now and we've got five houses including

our primary which is worth about 750 we

owe 220 on it and it's at four and a

quarter perc interest and all my rental

properties are within a 15 minute radius

of my house except for one and I've just

completely remodeled it's over an hour

away I'm considering selling it doing a

1031 tax exchange and replacing it with

a house near me or B selling it and

paying my house off I like B can I do a c

I like another option I vote for B

Rachel wants to introduce C Jimmy stand

by I would do okay I would do both Jimmy

do you need the 400k um at all for the new rental that

you're going to buy Ian if you're going to do the exchange taxwise it's it's

going to be this close to the same value is that what you're shooting for correct

and not touch the 4 400k no I would take

I would take 220 out of your 401k or I'm

sorry that wrong hello hold on I would I

would take I would take

I would take

$220,000 out of your $400,000 that's in

the money market today and pay off my

house and have 160 in there do the 1031

exchange with the property get another rental close by and there you go you got

a paid off house you got five rental

properties paid for with 160 in the bank

and you can you can build back up 200

Grand a lot you you have Rachel knows

how to spend other people's money I'm telling you that is fabulous I like C

now I'm going with C would you not Jimmy why aren't you wanting to pay off your house well you know I just now thought

of that as you were saying that this is

why you call Rachel Cruz right here

Jimmy she knows how to spend your money better than you all right you just need

a third party to be looking into the situation where you think oh I had

thought of that no it's great great that's what I would do Jim now what do that does that remove the house that's an hour away though or yeah cuz he's going to he's going to do that anyway getting rid of that one so he'll sell that but at 1031 exchange you can buy the same one and not have to pay Capital Gains I'm telling you Rachel you take the rest of the show off that was such good advice I'm not sure you can top

that that that's about as good as your but I think you can do yeah you can do both what do you think Jimmy well it sounds

good I try that it's just a little

nervous about touching that 400k because I've been broke before I know you got a

little scarcity mentality in you Jimmy so here's here promise me this I want

you to do this I want you to do it this week I want you to pay off your house

and in in January okay we'll go through

an election all the you know craziness

of the world and if you hate having a

paid for house Jimmy I'm not going to give you permission but you could go get a helck

right take some money out put cash in the bank or we'll let you call Rachel up and say bad things about on the show cuz

my point is Jimmy you're not going you're you wouldn't go back and borrow on your home at 4% would youim that's

what this is I mean that's what it is and Jimmy what are the chances that you're going to be broke again let's let's let's handicap it zero zero

that's I was kind of gon to go there

so how much is your rentals bringing in

a month all five of them approximately

uh once it's said and done about 2 200 each so you're talking 10 grand 9 to 10

grand a month Jimmy you got more money

buried in your backyard than most people will ever make you're fine there's zero

chance of you going broke all right well I appreciate it

yeah she's going to get you a better return that's what she's good for you Jimmy I mean that's that's hard work Ken he's he's done it you live the American

dream are you where in Atlanta are you

uh North Woodstock yeah yeah yeah I

lived in Swani for for 11 years I know

where you were at so yeah so you're a baby I've never been in the the market

and mutual funds or anything and I had met with a couple of financial advisers that wanted me to sell the houses and put the money with them and that was kind of a red flag with me yeah Jimmy

you're fine you got property in North

Atlanta area come on yeah and but you

have you you don't have anything in the market no Roth or 401k or okay none okay

oh think money market is paying 5.34

right now it is yeah and your rentals are are great I mean I think um yeah I

mean if someone comes in it's like sell everything does that change your opinion no it doesn't change my opinion but I would I would say though Jimmy to diversifi diversification is always good

in general right so we just had a caller

uh last segment where we kind of talked about this where two great places to

invest long term is the market I mean on average

average 10 to 12% returns and real estate has great returns um both have

can can be volatile at different times but you write them out and you're good so I think you're fine Jimmy I I would

maybe kind of just Tinker on the idea putting some in like just a just an index what I'm asking you let's go back to your plan you spent his 400,000

really quickly 200,000 of it no but then you

said take the rest of that and get another rental right no no no no no no I didn't no I'd say leave leave 160 in the

money market oh good yeah yeah yeah cuz

I was going to say oh I see you did y

all right so so my question not pain

that of course I hate capital gains it

gives me a rash just say in two words um

I'm GNA have to Calamine all over up up to after the break here but the question

is shouldn't he put some of that in the investment I shouldn't he invest some of that money that's what I'm wondering Jimmy is that's what I'm I mean again

you're you're G to be fine but I do

think diversification is great so if you did want to look into and do some research and find someone that doesn't gross you out as a financial advisor

yeah uh check out a smart Vestor Pro and

and and again I would not go I would not

sell all your houses and put it in the market like this person said I would not do that but maybe there's an element

that you have some good cash or maybe you take a percentage and just put some

in the market just again the diversification spreads around risk and

it's it's you know it's always a good thing in general Jimmy you're getting a call all right Jimmy we're going to let

think we're great we're going to let you go Jimmy I appreciate the call I think that's that's awesome got a call online

Jimmy Jimmy is a busy man yeah yeah you

got a tenant online too the gutter it

fell off this morning we're going to let him get take care that's great it's also

that I love the like 1992 era phone ring

that that was interesting to me as well I bet it was a landline may have been a

fax no didn't faxes have different rings

than that yeah it was just a bad joke oh

uh okay but I really love okay backto

back calls uh I love this and I bet I

bet first generation I wish ask both of them I know we should have but here's the thing I want to point out I want your take on this I'm teeing you up because you were talking to Neil Cavuto today you're the big shot uh all right

everybody's excited about the five plus

plus percent but that's not going to be

that way forever right now because the FED has raised rates steadily everybody's getting that really fat percentage they like 5% here on the I

just want to point out that the long-term play right for a sizable chunk

of money is not your money market account that's correct yes and

interesting the benefit of rates being

high the benefit and the downside right

the downside is that rates are high so meaning when you borrow on money it's going to be higher that's why mortgage rates are crazy right if you go get a car loan right now I mean everything is just high percentage when you're borrowing that interest but on the flip

wonderful side those of us that are saving in things like a money market or

high yield savings we're getting higher

returns than ever I mean usually it's like 2% it was up to six at one point

and our high yield savings this is crazy

but it to your point it's not going to be like that forever right things are going to shift and as the fed and the rates start to change um you know we're

going to see some shifts so yes your long-term play for Building Wealth is not going to be in a high yield savings account or a money market account the stock market is up big time for the year

I mean we had that one big scary day

where most people who aren't veterans or

don't listen to the Ramsey Show freaked

out and then it's back and it's just

fantastic and so uh the the the compound

interest is your friend it is your

friend it is your friend it is your friend and that's what we're preaching you got to be Diversified diversification is the key that's what

we teach David's taught that for decades

any of the smart Vestor Pros uh that you

can get access to in your area this for a larger audience listening and watching right now if they aren't giving you the

strategy that we talk about walk away but they will and I'm telling you that

diversification over the long haul it is and man it's nice and it's 15 % of your

income into retirement you all that's what we're talking about 15% once you're debt free and you have an emergency fund

and then anything extra you have put it at your house once your house sells then looking into things like a like real estate paid for Real Estate is that next step so um but it's a great plan and

some people have been very successful so

great job with Jimmy that was fun to watch you work my friend that was well

played all right it's been a good hour

we got a hop this is the Ramsey Show

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today this is the ramsy show thrilled to

have you with us America we are here to help you win in

your life we want you to win with your money win in your work and win with your

relationships that allows you to have peace and to live with great purpose

8825 5225 is the phone number 8825

5225 I'm sitting alongside Rachel Cruz

and I'm Ken Coleman and we're here for

you this hour ready to coach some people up let's go to Crystal now uh who's in

the Big Apple New York City love the

city Crystal how can we help hi thank you so much for having me

hello Rachel Hulk and thank you I truly

appreciate this opportunity and got to

be here good what's going on your advice

too yes so we are a family of two my

husband and I currently we recently have

a combined income recently I mean in the

last probably six to eight months of

190,000 growth yearly 400 or 100 what

you say 190 okay perfect yes and that

would be gross okay so um in that

pandemic my husband and I had the opportunity to buy our first house which we did two years later we decided to

rent it out which we have we moved out

and we bought a condo recently four

months ago which we flipped and we were

hoping just to continue on to this path

uh recently my husband came into an

opportunity where he was offered a fully

remote job but it would be a serious cut

in our income and I wouldn't be able to

work as well because it would be back

home in the Dominican Republic which our

initial goal when we came here eight years ago was to hopefully be back home

uh with our family so funny is that the

cut is Big Time for living in New York

because it would be down to $60,000 gross and here in New York the

lifestyle that we are having right now our expenses being at $8,000 a month won't make it so even if

he keeps a 60k and I stay with mine uh

both of us won't be able to you know

make ends meet in New York until we

finally get rid of our debt or probably

sell both of our properties so what we

would like your advice would be what would be the wisest choice in this case

our rental income right now is on a month-to month and is

$4,000 a month and where we're at now

that house sorry has a 2.9% interest and

we owe 385 on house

and right now I estimate about 500 550

MH all right let's pause a minute

because you gave us a lot of details I

know no no no no you did a wonderful job

wonderful job uh my question is um what

would you need to make to live

comfortably in the Dr we're going to put

the debt aside because we need to remove the debt regardless of where we're living but what what would you need to

live comfortably in the

Dr so 60,000 would be the young

comfortable that's that's what I and and

then what could you do in the

Dr well I definitely my family has small

businesses over there so I can definitely pitch in but that would be something that I would have to re I have

to start from scratch well hold on a second I don't know about that what do you do now well I currently work for a

retirement company for a principal are

there any retirement companies in the

Dr yeah yes and no okay here's my point

you have a lot of transferable experience and I think I think it's probably valuable that you're coming from the states with that experience and you got

a lot of connections in the Dr true or

false true so this idea this notion that

your only option is to go work for your

family small businesses and start from

zero I think that's a that's not that's

not the right notion I think it's an incorrect notion you would you agree with that I would say so yes it would depend

where we live too I get it but my point

is is what's keeping you from going to the Dr and he takes this job but he does

it there are they saying they don't want

somebody on site they're only wanting a remote worker so what's keeping us here is that

we have the debt and we cannot leave

with his job only and pay off the debt

that we have now and we would have to

either we cannot rent this condo that we

just bought because we bought it at 5% down payment okay so let me let me jump in on that I'm going to tell you to sell that anyway you guys don't

that right now you're in debt you need to sell it and take whatever money you can make from that yeah how much would you make off that sell how much would

you make that is that is for this condo

we just bought it three months ago and

we bought it at market price market

value so we are gonna We either are

going to go negative or just go clean

because we put in about 30 to 40K to

make it nice okay okay and you I thought

you told me earlier that it was it was

is worth more than you you talking about your current home well that's the house that's the house is how much can you get for the house if you sell the house so

if I sell the house I would get like 500

550 I can push it to more but I don't

want to you know no no no what would you clear yeah what would you clear with

what you owe um so for the house only so

for the single family house that I have rented if I sell it I can probably have

150k okay to 130 okay and how much other

what other what other debt do you guys have So currently we have around 990,000 in

credit cards that would include the loan that we did uh to flip this apart this

condo and plus um some renovation that

we did to the other house as well so in

total we only owe 90 okay so you if you

well if you sell the house sell the house you clear 150 use that to pay off

the 90 right so you got you got 60 Grand

over here so I'm trying to understand Crystal you guys want to be in the Dr

right and that which that that's what you're wanting or you wanting to stay in New York for longer no we do actually want to go to

the Dr okay you go so then why don't you

go why don't you do that and then and I would not live in the and I would sell the condo too to you may you may have to

wait a year um for capital gains and all

that make sure you you look into that but I but I mean I I would go sell it

all and go pay off your Deb you said you

would live comfortably off of his 60 in

the Dr doesn't you don't even have to work necessarily I mean I would do something but you're fine no debt if you

do what Rachel told you to do so that's

the whole point of our line of question if you want to go to the Dr what makes you not want to do that or what makes you not do that plan so the only thing

that I would say is since we never put

any work in the Dominican Republic

buying houses or even buying we would have to start from scratch so yes we would pay the debt but we would be on

zero you have 60 Grand how much is real

estate in the Dr how much to buy a house

there well for it can cost 200 300,000

but you're but you're both living comfortably you said you could live beyond comfortably off of his 60 let's say you make 40 you guys aren't starting

from scratch you'd be able to save up for a nice down payment very very quickly with no doubt yeah you could rent in the Dr for a year yeah save up

and you'll have that 60 Grand which I want that to be part of your emergency fund but you're you got a jump start on a great down payment for a house you need 5% is what we

recommend well in the Dr they don't have

5% is 30% down again you're still F and

they don't have but even

but even if you had to rent Crystal at the in the Dr for two years three years

that'd be okay right I it's where you guys want to be yeah I mean I would do

it I'd sell everything in New York i'

pay off the credit cards and I'd go to the Dr he's got a 60 Grand job it's

awesome and then if you make anything on

top of that that's just yeah I was just there it's a lovely country that's your dream why delay the dream we Rachel and

I can't figure out one reason why you would delay it in fact I think you put it at risk the more you mess around with

this Current financial situation get out of this deal and get home my goodness

this is a no-brainer I love this idea

move with you Crystal he's moving with you I love the Dr this is the ramsy

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz is along side

excited that you are with us taking your questions about your money your income

and your relationships 88255 225 Jim is up in Phoenix Arizona

Jim how can we help today hi there uh so I've been working

with RV rentals for the past two years

and I have no debt I'm looking to maybe

well here's the situation so I've been

managing a subcontract for another guy

in town uh so he works for basically

Cruise America I manage the RVs for him

he makes a commission check he wants to

get rid of the subcontract I'm looking to take it over uh but if I'm not able

to take over this subcontract not able to find a good commercial location to run it out of uh I was thinking about

kind of running my own rental business because I've been doing this for a couple years now I kind of know the ins

and outs of the RV business I was thinking about maybe buying my first starvie with cash uh renting it out and

then once I have enough money saved up from the profit from that I can buy the next one so on so forth so cash all the

way through that would be the Hope what's

the what's the margin on that stuff Jim I don't know much about RVs and rentals and all of that when you um especially

if you're the owner of it what is what what are the numbers around it how much are they and how much could you rent it

for so I would probably want to go for

something 2019 or newer uh probably not

brand new class C uh motor home we're looking about 7 well

let's say 60 to 90 grand for each RV

what's the margin though that's what she's getting at so what's the margin you rent how how often can you rent it out what do you think you'll make a year on it the busy season is is basically from

basically from May to September so it's

about a six-month period about 180 days

out of the year uh making about $150 an

hour or excuse me $150 a day um so I

think that works out to maybe about 30 grand a year for a single RV uh and then

margin after you know fixes

repairs um housekeeping all the fun

stuff that goes with rentals uh I think

I think it's about a 15 20% margin is

what you make okay um

H and yeah and this is something you you

want to do I mean I guess I'm not a fan

of it as a business model that's why I'm

driving on yeah and the the the idea of

owning an asset that's going down in value like plummeting year after year

after year I mean when you get done with it it's not like oh you have a pay you have a real estate that's gone up yeah

you got to buy another one it's gone down you know in in value um so I mean

the numbers in my head I mean you've been doing it for two years so honestly Jim you're from that standpoint you know more than I do about this world but it sounds like your investment could be better spent somewhere else do you

think oh perhaps I guess I mean um I

don't know I've I've done a lots of jobs

gone back and back and forth here and there done this and that and uh I

actually actually kind of like this industry okay um why I'm leaning towards

it well again if you do it with

cash yeah there's not a there's no risk

in it right well I mean again it's just

the you're burning through so what's the life cycle of a of an RV before you have

to sell it for pennies on the dollar

have you thought through that because that to Rachel's Point you're not going into debt and you said I hope so our

deal is you're not going to go into debt for this that would be I think it would be catastrophically bad idea to go into

debt for RV rentals yes so the question

is what's the life cycle when you buy one of these things before you pretty

how many years can you get out of it in other words rental money yeah I would say five five is

probably the max if you're buying it brand new uh and then otherwise I would

probably retire them at 130,000 miles okay I could be doing my math wrong Jim so in that case so if you bought a $70,000 one yeah that's and you're

making 30 on it a year but you're only

getting a 15

20% rate of return back right I mean

that's that's that's that's 10,000 so in

the years that would that would take seven years to recoup that 70 grand I

don't know mathematically if it makes sense and and Jim I am sorry that's why

I've been digging and ask guess you could sell it eventually but what it would be what it would be worth in seven years what are you going to sell it for in five years right so if I bought it for 70

it'd probably be worth like 30 this is not in my mind a good

business I'm not trying to be Shark Tank

guy but I wouldn't invest in this I

don't think it's I think I think for the

margins plus all the stuff that Rachel

just I mean it just doesn't feel right I

know you you would make 10 grand at the

end of five years though right if the math is if the math is going through you buy it for 70 you're making 30 you make

15 to 20% right 10,000 after 5 years

that's 50,000 you sell it for 30 that's

$80,000 so you put $70,000 into

something and after five years you make

$10,000 versus if you put 70 grand into

an index fund do you know what I mean I'm just I'm trying to get I'm trying to help you more money make more money on

your money um it's got a lot of risk

associated with it too we're not even getting into I'm not trying to be Mr you

know Droopy Dog but I wasn't that the

name of that dog that always had the pouty attitude droopy it James somebody help she's too

young anyway Sno was the Charli brown dog no not Snoopy there was a dog named droopy he was just thank you the audience you know what I'm talking about okay great here's the point I'm not trying to be depressing but Jim there is

so much risk associated with this it's

not a good business model I'm out well

it's not even I wouldn't do it it's not even risk on my end it's just the numbers as you just lay out the numbers

I said numbers plus risk okay I'm saying

all of it combined we walk through the numbers it's not a solid business model

and then on top of that there's so much more risk yeah with the things breaking

down and the I'm just saying it's it's

not I wouldn't do it Jim so sorry gosh I

know you were hoping for a better

answer no I wanted an honest answer so

that that's uh helpful yeah can I can I

address something I think that you think

that this is the only thing you can do

is that

true uh it's the thing I'm feel most

comfortable doing right now for sure all

right I'm saying you're successful

you're making good money now and and selling these things or whatever it is that you're in I just I want you to look for a better business idea don't be discouraged is my point yeah and I think

the line of work you're in is is fine I

think it's when you start going into the ownership route that's where the numbers start to play out to be like uh you know if you're making a cut of the rental

thing and that's your and that's your job right I mean like that you're making money you're not owning the asset and I think because the asset goes down in value so fast um that's what makes it

difficult but to but to your point Ken uh Jim if you hang on the line Christian

um can pick up and I'm going to give you out your assessment I'm going to give your assessment my treat uh because

honestly Ken or honestly Ken Jim this

assessment I think it would be great and I and I do think um even when you said it's what I'm comfortable doing um it we

all you know we we do settle and

comfortable um and not that you're not

being successful or anything I don't want to like downplay what you're doing right now in life gy but but it this could be an interesting play to just say hey I wonder what else is out there I agree and again what I would do is 7 ,000 at the end of the day is the

question you know and I just think you you can make way more on that you can and Jim here's the deal the tool to get clear assessment comes with the book find the work you're wired to do this going to help you ideate and you just need some ideas to see what can I do

from a skill set standpoint what can I do from an enjoyment standpoint and then

there there's where that idea that money that you could invest and do far more so

we'd love to see you get a better business model uh which greater greater

rate of return uh on on your time and

the money that you're going to invest and a whole lot less risk that's the uh

that's the goal and I think you can find that by the way in fact I know you can so great Point Rachel to point out that

we kind of do the thing we know because

we go at least I can do that and I want

you to see what you can do you know it's interesting and I'm not saying this is gy specifically but just in general um

the idea of being comfortable I read the Comfort crisis great book oh Michael Easter fantastic where it's just and it's so true I'm like we just the idea

of pain the idea of change to expand and

become greater it it it takes this level

of like oh my gosh I have to like you know be uncomfortable and I have to do

something that's outside of the box that that's normal but in order to to continue to grow sometimes we have to do that and that's true with our money I mean that's true within our marriages and our parenting with our kids I mean every every aspect our careers um to

continue to grow you can't stay comfortable because you do end up being stagnant fun question for you 30 seconds

till we go to break you can handle this you're a pro if you couldn't do what you're doing now what would be something

that you would try that would make you uncomfortable favorite oh that would make me uncomfortable oh my God you're interested by it interested but it it'

be outside of your comfort zone oh man

oh no

uh gosh I I don't know Ken I was going

to say I want to be a political correspondent but I don't know if I'd be uncomfortable doing that what would make

me uncomfortable different though a little bit different what about you uh

college basketball coach it would make

me uncomfortable I've never coached okay

other than just my kids and that would be that would be put me that's good

that's good maybe doing a doing a talk show with Ken Coleman may be really

uncomfortable this is the Ry

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz is alongside uh the

Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by why refi if you're in

a default and situation with your

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yy.com Ramsey it may not be available in all

states all right today's question comes from Ava in Rhode Islands after my

undergraduate studies which I did on scholarships I was accepted until law school I graduated under the impression

that I had about $80,000 in student loan

debt I didn't know that my parents also

took out a parent plus loan or loans and

they now say that I owe an additional

$75,000 I admit that that part is my

fault but when I was 18 years old is

when they did this and I didn't understand the ramifications of this type of loan I have opened a law

practice in my hometown which is small

so we only have two stop lights so my

income is very low my law license could

be taken away if I default on student loan debt and the monthly payment is

eight is about $800 just on the loans

that I took out should I allow my

father's paycheck to be garnished for

his part of the debt or should my

husband and I buckle down and take it on ourselves wow good night yikes we're

getting into the garnishing so that means it sounds like there's some tension and and and arguments about all

this so she didn't know her parents took

out $75,000 yeah and we hear this a lot that

either it's miscommunication or you know

it's just done and there is no

communication um and then this so I mean

well the parent what's your take on the parent plus situation what's your take on what the parents owe versus her well

I mean it was for her degree but it's under their name I know I mean and they

didn't tell her so do you have I just

want to know your opinion on that I mean in this situation I'd rather not get into a fight with the dad and have him

come after his paycheck that's not going to make for a very nice Thanksgiving no

yeah and you don't want I mean you hate to see relationships end over this stuff

get out of this small town and start making some real lawyer money I do I think that's the key I don't think you can afford to practice in your hometown

I think you have to go somewhere else

make law your kind of money and it's going to take a little while to get to get everything built up but it's very

doable yeah so I think the 80

grand is her portion that she knew about

mhm what do you think about the seven I know I mean the parents signed it right

I know I'm looking for an opinion over here I've got one I mean I think it's

the parents responsibility at that point

if you take it out on an 18-year-old and

you don't tell her that's on you I agree I agree I

agree what does the audience say out there in the lobby they agree with you Rachel that we got thumbs up I love this audience James this is the most active

audience that I've I've been with in in

months and months and months they're they're giving us the thumbs up thumbs down it's real time focus group right

here and these are ramsy people so

Rachel I agree the sticky part is par

sounds like Mom and Dad are not in agreement well and I wonder she's 18 so she's after law school right so she could be in early par this could have been 18 years ago when all this was going I got can I go back to the audience real quick yeah yeah audience do you sick the uh loan people on them

and let them garnish pops wages wow

we're getting we're getting I got mostly

yeses one guy says no wow

wow okay cuz it apparently it's going to

be an ugly Thanksgiving anyway so I

think I'm siding with the audience man

okay I like this real time focus group

stuff because I here's why I'm I'll be

honest with you you all bailed me out because that's where I was gonna go uh

at first I said no but then I was like o

I started thinking through I don't want to be heartless I know and I always wonder about these situations cuz she's 18 when this happens so maybe what if

they had told her and she forgot cuz cuz

it was two separate conf you know what I'm saying like I don't think they did the way she of course we this is why we need these people on the phone but bottom line is uh she she she throws it

out there should my husband and I take it on so she's got some character uh

this is a this is a a woman of character here so I don't know we'll see it was taken out in secret so no I don't think you owe it in secret I agree all right

tough one there Ryan is up next in

Oklahoma City Oklahoma Ryan how can we

help today uh hey Mr Coleman hey Miss Cruz uh

thanks for everything you guys do we really do appreciate it uh I had a question it's a little bit of money but mainly just career-based uh I used to

work in media TV everything and then I've worked in sales recently I'm currently a senior uh lead generation

specialist for a software company uh

I've been here about three months and uh

in the city that I'm in the school district that's right nearby I have friends that work there and everything uh they highlighted a job that was a high school media teacher position

something I've always kind of thought about was teaching getting back in media helping the Next Generation but was never serious about it and then they approached me with it I decided to interview and then yesterday they offered me the job so now I'm having to

decide between something really difficult uh because I've only been at my job three months right now so I'd

definitely be burning them if I leave and that doesn't really F well with me but uh there is more of the longterm

potential I think for the other job

being back in media helping um kind the

Youth of you know of the area pouring back into the community so just kind of looking for any sort of expertise or guidance on kind of weighing that option

yeah okay I'm gonna ask you a questions and let you you decide okay uh do you

pay attention to sports you like sports at all yes okay give me an example of

your favorite team uh the Oklahoma

Sooners and the Green Bay Packers either one okay good let's let's take the Packers because it's a professional thing okay sure we've got we've got thumbs down from the audience Ryan people didn't like your sports choices but that's okay you all behave I'll tell you when I want your opinion all right youall just sit there and be quiet all right uh I'm kidding of course uh sort

of uh so when when when when a free

agent okay leaves the Packers all right

so another team comes to him and says we want you uh you're not happy about it

when one of your top players leaves are you no but you don't think that they're

doing anything immoral or that they're a jerk they're taking an opportunity another team wanted them they're goingon to pay them a little bit more money and they feel like they can go play for another team and win a Super Bowl you may not like it but you understand it true or false and true I think that's

your situation uh this opportunity fell in

your lap can we say that yes you you

weren't out looking for it you weren't being a jerk you're not being

unethical uh there's nothing illegal in

this move is there no no definitely not

so here's my point yes they're not going to be thrilled that you're leaving them after 3 months but that's not your

problem this is an opportunity to to uh

to kind of express your your your your

journey here I can make some moves here

I can get a little bit further faster this sets me up for the long term based on how you've described it I think you sit down with them you tell them that you go listen I didn't plan for this uh

this is this is an opportunity that has

presented itself that I can't pass up I

am so sorry uh to leave you after only

three months but I have to take this opportunity and and if they call you bad

names or if they treat you in a poor way

you're just going to have to be a big boy and handle that but I think you have to make the decision that's right for you long term and because of that I I

think it's the right move sure I if I

can ask one other thing with it it is

about a 20 to $30,000 difference and I

know I've recently gotten into you know

listening to you guys and all the yes

it'd be less for how long

just uh well within teaching it's all

pretty uh segmented so I'd be going from

about I'm at 75 right now

and the job would be 55 now there is

commission into my job but just base

salary I'm currently 75 what do you want

to do teaching would be what do you want to do with your life where do you want to be 15 20 25 years from now

professional that is the biggest thing currently it's this job with everything

provides but I would not be doing this job two three five years from now right

can you live on the teacher salary like

oh definitely of course you I'm very good with that I'm just making sure that it's that he's not in some crazy position where he's like no I have all these B I know but I mean we did the largest millionaire study ever and the third largest group of net worth millionaires are teachers so it can be done and I'm asking not saying it can't be done I'm making sure Brian

specifically can do it for his

circumstances of course he can do it we

don't know until we ask well I wasn't

talking to you I was encouraging

him I'm only about one I'm about one

month or by the by the time I was leaving if I went to this new job at the beginning of October I would have just hit my six months of uh the 3 to six

months of yeah you're great you're

greaty you got one shot on this globe do

the thing that makes your heartbeat and you I was not as long as long as it's not a pattern in life of jumping jobs every three months you know what I mean there's no issue you're fine this is not a job jumper this is a young man who knows his role and he's ready to do it

go we great teachers go and be an

everyday millionaire you can do it this

is the r show

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Rachel Cruz joins me uh folks

stuff is moving in the real estate

market what's going to happen we don't know we don't know 100% but things are

moving and a lot of you going should we

wait should we wait rates are down uh

we've got little bit a little bit Jerome

pal saying time to start cutting again

we'll see how that affects the mortgage rates that's coming uh I think in

September so here's the point don't sit

around and wait wait wait and try to time all these rates if you're ready to buy or sell and you're and you know what you're

doing go for it and if you don't know what you're doing and you do know what you're doing you got to have one of the ramsy trusted real estate professionals

it's the only way to find an agent you can trust to keep you on track and we've

got the top agents in your area we trust them we vetted them and they're going to guide you through what may be for many

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Ramsey solutions.com

agent to Chattanooga Tennessee is where

we go nah is there Nina how can we help

hi yes thank you both for having me on

the show um so I'm just goingon to go

straight into it um I'm 24 years old I

have two kids an 8-year-old and a

four-year-old and um I just came across

the ramsy show about like two weeks ago

um so I've been on my own since like I

was 16 obviously I had my first child when I was young and never really really

thought about like I just been surviving

my whole life till recently um and I'm

just kind of overwhelmed and I want my

kids to be um I want to be able to be

financially free for my kids and I just

feel like it's kind of hard to do that

when I solely take care of everything

like rent do you know bills and all that

it's a lot so um I'm I'm just needing

some guidance and how to like budget or

where to start um I know the baby steps

uh they just start off with the emergency fund and um out of the

Thousand I only have 300 saved but then

again I feel like it's just I don't know

how to budget with like the bills and

everything and I'm just kind of

lost well number one you that that

feeling and that emotion is completely normal especially the story you laid out

for us I'm like yeah I mean you have you

have two kids you're a single mom you're young and you're trying to figure all

this out so I I applaud you so much

though for the work that that you're doing I mean that that is so difficult being a single parent so um you're doing

you're doing a great job so from from the money side uh where where you at how

much are you making a year and how much

debt do you have yes so I make about

45,000 a year um and um with my debt I

have I'm 12K 12K in debt okay and um so

I'mma break it down for you with the debt um I have in all the loans I have

10,000 but um you know I'm I made a

mistake in 2019 I bought a new car and

it got REO in 2020 and so um they cut it

down from 17 to 10,000 and um in credit cards I have

2,000 and then I have um about 530 in

collections okay now with the $10,000

car is that from the repossession and so

you don't have the car or is this on a

new car when you said the 10,000 it's

from the reposition so the car I have

now I don't you know it's paid off um I

bought a cheap car good good good for

you great yes um but you know my driving

history is pretty bad so my insurance is

at like 515 a month okay yeah so it's

it's that's all the that I have okay so

what what you bringing home a month is it around 3500 yes okay and have you done a

written budget do are you able to when

you look at do you like do you know

throughout the month hey beginning of the month I know how much my lights are going to be you know relatively uh water

my rents my you know all of that my food

like do you have you done a detailed budget yet so uh yes so my light kind of

like fluctuates um in my water but my

rent is about about 780 um you know

right now my light in water it came out

to like 500 okay um you when you list

out all when you list out your your food

your rent your utilities and gas for

your car and insurance how much does

that come out a month do you know that number off the top of your head um off

the top of my head no I don't but I know

it's like close to what I make it's

close to that okay to that 3500 yep okay

yeah yeah so in your case Nina what we

find with money so often is that there's

really two ways that it flows it flows in from the in income standpoint and

then it flows out with expenses and everything you've listed to me and as

we've talked in this conversation my assumption is there's no outlandish uh

cuts to probably be made I mean I mean

maybe some restaurants here or there but you're not you know you're not going on vacation on credit cards or doing you know those kind of things this is pretty your your bills your basic bills are

squeaking Buy which means on the expense

side of it there's probably not a ton to cut I would I would I would I would

challenge you just to look cuz even 30 40 bucks from a random subscription or

you know some restaurants like if there's any amount of money you can squeeze out do that but I think your

biggest up playay is your income side

what do you do for a living I'm an operations coordinator so

I work in logistics oh nice so what do

you think is the next rung or two up the

ladder in your current workplace is

there is there even a rung or two above you that is reachable um so I'm not going to lie um

uh this is actually one of my first good

jobs I was um I actually was a Dropout

so I didn't finish school so I don't really have an education I don't really

neither do I Nina I'm a college Dr well

did you get a GED you mean even high school because you left you left school you left home at 16 did you get your GED

yes ma'am I good for you that's great so

so okay I hear what you're saying so you're kind of going Ken I'm not even thinking about the next rung of the ladder I'm thrilled to be on this one and I and I'm not trying to get you but I'm just wondering um now that I know

that how long you been in that role so I

just I just start it's I'm like hitting

four months already um so you know I'm

I'm very blessed to be a part of the team but before you know I had like jobs

working in the carpet mill um so this is

actually a very stable job for me and

all right so let me switch gears on you real quick okay back to the bud I I think right now I think you could probably pick up a side gig is it

possible do you have somebody to go watch the kiddos and you could pick up maybe a 15 or 20 more hours a week for a

season a small season but a season so um

I know it takes a village to raise a kids but uh I don't have a village you

don't have anybody maybe from well let

me say from home there's a lot of you know remote stuff can you do some

customer service stuff at night when the kids are in bed this is all by phone or

by computer yes I can um I do sometimes

work from home so that all right so with

that in mind I want to get back to the budget thing and and and by the way before I forget I want to tell you this

when we're going to put you on hold in a minute when we're finished and we're going to get you a session our treat we're going to pay for it with with a financial coach because I think you need

a little bit more time and I think when they walk you through Penny by penny

where you're spending I want someone to be Hands-On and if you'll promise me nah

that you'll let them coach you and show

you how to do your first real budget I

want to give you a session with him will you do that I will because listen let me

tell you something n listen I'm not betting against a single mama and you've

got what it takes you got a good job uh

I I think you're making enough money I think you got to see where your money's going and I think some side hustles to

pay this small amount of money off I know it seems like a mountain but 12K is very doable but here's what I want to encourage you on okay I think that

you've got to treat your budget like

it's a full-time job and I think you're going to be surprised how much money you can find and pay that off and we'll give

you every dollar Premium Too Nina that's our budgeting app to do that and FPU and

stuff so we'll we'll load you up for sure in the because I got a quick question okay how much money Nina just

ballpark I'm not holding you to this how much money if we handed it to you every month would you think would make the difference right now giving you some

breathing um how much okay um ballpark

in order to pay off my debt no no no

just to be able to have some some Breathing Room what's that amount of money that you go Ken if you gave me this much a month what what's the

number um probably okay so I make about

35 um so I guess another thousand

another thousand okay so here's here's the point I want you just think about

through the debt payments and then getting a budget that $1,000 a month all

right real quick for the rest of you uh

who are not on radio radio audience

we're going to stay with you for the rest of you on YouTube and podcast the

show is done for you unless you go to

the Ramsay app and that's where you get

the rest of the calls and we got some good ones lined up so head over there you can search for the Ramsey Network in

the App Store

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

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## 217. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 26, 2024)


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZUE3jQKwic) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:17:01 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Ken Coleman number

one bestselling author and host of the Ken bman show here at Ramsey is my

co-host today open phones atle

[Music] 88255 225 that's tri8 825 5225 right

before we turn on the microphones Ken and I were just discussing a fabulous

appearance he just did on Mike Rose

Dirty Jobs um Mike R of Dirty Jobs has a

podcast that's a long form interview podcast Mike and I've been friends a long long time and I've done it a couple

times and Ken was just a guest on there and it just I think it posted this week

and I've listen I listen to it all the way through um it's an hour and 40

minutes of you two guys having way too much fun but it's very informative a

great discussion if you haven't uh

checked out Mike's podcast we recommend

that you do especially this week with Ken being on there it was incredible Ken great job thank you Brenda is in Tampa

Florida to start off this hour hi Brenda

welcome to the ramsy show Hello thank you for having me sure

what's up

um so my husband and I have been listening um or found you on December

last year and we started um the every

dollar app and we have gotten an offer

already of like $36,000 in debt but we still have way

more to go we have around

$255,000 in debt

still and we were wondering um like to

accelerate it a little bit if we should

sell our house if it does it is

2.75 um APR on our house um but just to

see what your opinion was okay the

250,000 in debt does that include your

mortgage it does not okay what's it on

student loans it's student loan um solar panel

one car um credit cards and a pool

loan yeah we did very bad mistakes but

we're learning from are bad habits what

do you owe on the

car the car um 35,000 okay and what's

your household

income um we bring home um around 9500 a

month do you like your

house we do we had two it has nice solar

panels in a pool we know

that yeah yeah so yeah okay um

if I'm in your shoes I'm not selling the house except as a worst case scenario if

you get completely stuck you have a pretty good income I would sell my

car and we did sell one of our cars the

35,000 one would go too before I sold my

house yeah yeah that's what a $1,200 a

month car payment actually no$ 760 oh okay you got

a good rate on that too then okay good

yeah but either way I'm I I would be rid of that that's 35,000 of the 250 you've

already made 36,000 progress and of

course every time we get rid of a payment it increases the the speed of

your progress because you have more money freed up to attack the rest of the debts working the debt snowball

right yes yeah it is upside down like um

almost 15 how many times you go out to eat last month um quite a few we did down Le a

lot less yeah yeah so that needs to be

zero you don't need to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working

there and you don't need to be on vacation you call me about to sell your

house because you're desperate about your debt and yet you're going out to eat every night that's got to stop

girlfriend not every night you got to stop it's got to stop going out to eat is entertainment

it is not

nutrition okay you guys got to you need

to get on a beans and rice scorched Earth budget where your family thinks

you've joined a

cult you're you need to go crazy before

you talk about selling your house cuz

you got a good situation with this house

and if you walk away from it because you won't curb in your other appetites that

would be a wrong set of choices yeah the

advice I would give here is I would get

every dollar uh which is our amazing

budgeting app and get control of your budget within the parameter that Dave

just gave you and here's the number you got to come to I wrote down you said you're bringing home 9500 month I would

be looking to get the largest amount of

money possible out of that 9500 that

you're putting towards debt per month and I'm just making this up but start to think in terms of could we put $3,000 a

month towards debt that's $36,000 a year

that's just out of your current income be it needs to be more I I know but I'm saying you got to build up to what can I

put in and you've got to put the max

amount in and it doesn't feel then so

large and insurmountable to where she's

trying to go let's get the house and get

a lump and say no over the next two

years or three years we can knock this out but we have to do this per month so

Brenda another way of saying it is the only thing on the list of things you gave me that was smart was the

house everything else was

Dumb and so we don't want to lose the

one smart thing for the dumb things

without having pulled out all the stops

to save the house as if your life

depended on it yeah and so $4,000 a

month $5,000 a month extra jobs no

vacations no eating out no

nothing nothing just eat pay the lights

keep the water on work all the time and

pay your bills and you'll get out of

debt so fast it'll blow your mind how

fast you can do this but it it's going

to still take three hard years of doing

that and sell the stupid car and sell

everything else it's in sight anything

is sell so much stuff the kids think they're next the dog on eBay and the cat

on Craigslist I mean move some stuff

that that's you kind of got to get in that mindset where nothing matters and

once you've done that for two years if you run out of steam and you go I can't do this anymore I hate this worse than I

hate I hate I hate this house now all

this stuff I've had to do for it but you know you got pool you got solar panels both of which you're going to bring squat when you get ready to resell this thing so you're going to get burned again if you resell it so if I'm you H

I'm I'm going roll up my sleeves and go

after this with a Vengeance and that's

what changes everything absolutely it's it's that mindset to go I I can actually

do this but I've got to have a plan yeah

and that's why again the budget to

understand how much money you've been spending I love that immediately you went right to a very practical how many

times you eat out last month it's that idea of getting control of how much money we actually have to throw at this problem then it doesn't become insurmountable yeah this is doable very

but uh because the great news is you got a pretty decent decent shovel you got a really big hole but you got a pretty decent shovel there can you resell solar

panels no like reselling a computer that's what

I thought as soon as you plug it in it's obsolete the technolog is moving so fast

on them okay that I've always wondered

5-year-old solar panels are what is known as um dumpster food um you know

they just have no the because the quality of the quality of the technology

today versus 5 years ago same as an old

computer right it's the same thing and so yeah that's why they're just that's

why they're junk uh solar panels are

great if you can get about a 5year break even and if you pay cash for them but

not going into debt for them um because

you got to make your money back in 5 years because at the end of the five years they're going to be worthless they're going to be in the way and um I

mean they'll still continue to produce something but in terms of the value

added to your house nah not at all this

is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us open phones atle

88255 225 Amanda is in Knoxville hi

Amanda welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi Dave and Ken thank you for

taking my call sure I need your advice

um I husband and I are

exhausted we um so trying to figure out

if maybe starting a business or working from home may be a better option for us

um we have about $889,000 in thatb um

and I work full-time and I have an hour

drive to work every day and my husband

works full times but he works a night

shift from 10 at night till 600 in the morning and we have two children my

oldest just started kindergarten so we had help with drop

off and pickup with my mother andlaw but

she has had some health issues and she

can't drive right now so that's putting

on me doing the the bedtime routine and

the drop offs in the morning and my husband waking up early to pick her up from school so we're just exhausted I

don't know if that would be a good option for us considering the amount of debt we have what do you

make uh I make I make 57 but I'm set to

get a raise starting October one okay

what do you do sure about my husband uh I'm an account stable okay

and what's your husband do uh he works in a manufacturing plant

you drive this for list okay what would

be the business that you two would start I'm presuming you guys have kicked around some ideas if you ask us

that well I it would be me um I have

some experience in grant writing and um

I was thought thought about doing that as a side hustle um but then I'm

thinking well maybe a business a

full-time business might be a better option so that I can take care of the

kids and um you know it's only a better

option it's only a better option I don't

know what grant writers make I presume

that you know but it's only a better option if you're making the exact same

amount of money or more with absolute

opportunity to grow

that other than that you're just gonna

have to press through this is a tough season of life you got debt to pay off

well the other thing is you could just change jobs yeah or you don't have an

hour commute an hour commute in Knoxville is unusual Knoxville is not that it's not

that big I live outside of Knoxville I'm more

towards North Carolina but Boxville is

my closest city um I have 30 minutes to

the closest town um I actually and

that's if I go straight to work it's an hour drive I have to drop off one child

at my mother's 30 minutes away and then

to work and drop my mother-in-law at work so because she can't drive right

now so I'm actually hour and a half my

morning can you and then pick up my one

daughter on the way home so I I was born

inity what honey what what city are you

in um um our address is Hartford where

yeah okay up there where the rafting company things are yeah okay yeah all

right well the the job that your husband

has is replaceable in a day position not

an overnight because he doesn't make a

ton of money your job is

replaceable um if if you found something

there that even if it paid less um then

and you got two hours a day back you could do grant writing as a side

hustle yeah okay but driving in an hour

uh is is part of what the problem is you're losing you're burning 2 hours a day just to go make

$57,000 and um what you're tell me is is

that that's not worth it and him being him working overnight just to make what's he making 25

bucks uh close to that yeah yeah yeah

and there's no reason to do night shift to make 25 bucks you can make 25 bucks

at Target so um and then that get him back

on a day clock and you on a day clock

that helps cut your commute down down

that helps but jumping out and just

declaring I am now in small business in

a t in a small town in the hills of East

Tennessee suddenly and give up my you're

the major bread winner in the place give

up the biggest share of your income and

hope it works out no I'm not going to tell you to do that but I am with you

that something has to change another thing that could change

and this is really painful but you could

move cuz you're driving you're basically

driving into Knoxville is what you're telling me S County yeah yeah yeah what would

keep you from moving I heard your response to that as in it's not an

option why is that not an

option a family land um my inla that's

great it's a little hard to chew that up and eat it and right now you're having trouble

eating and and you're call me completely

exhausted ready to just throw yourself

off of a a a career cliff and hope you

hit a pad on the bottom no so I think

you guys I think you guys got to put a whole bunch of anything's on the table

until it's not him changing to a day job

you all moving halfway between so you

get some things back are you changing

jobs to something there in your town but

um you know like you said what you the

life that you've built you didn't build

it has happened to you by default and

it's tearing your butt up and you got to change yeah so you've you've identified

something that's got a give and so my

suggestion is that you decide what's

going to give and that it's wise meaning

that you just quit a $57,000 your job

because I'm worn out and go get and open

up a job hoping you make and you end up making nothing no open up a small

business no that I would not recommend that to anyone uh I would recommend you

start your small business as a side Hustle but you don't have any time to do that right now in this current situation

yeah it it's it's fascinating to me and

and not picking on Amanda at all because I've seen this so many times this idea

that proximity to family or some type of

family land or some benefit that I

perceive as a benefit tied to my family

as one of the key reasons why my life is

otherwise miserable is is so backwards

yeah and you've got to get to a point where you go what must be true for my

life to be better and then you stop

thinking well I have to figure it out in the terms of I got to be in your family

or I got to live on this family land everything's on the table when you're this tired I agree it's quality of life

bill is in Raleigh North Carolina hi Bill welcome to the Ramsey Show hey Dave thanks for taking my call

I really appreciate it sure what's up

got got a quick question my wife and I

um bought a speck house last year that

was about 40% finished when we purchased

it and so we had the opportunity to make

changes and add things um with signed

change orders with the Builder and we

ended up adding about 250k to the price

as far as what we we paid and then when

we closed in December and the sale was

recorded it was recorded as the original

sale price and didn't include any of the

change orders we did so I'm just wondering that accurate or can it

include the change orders that we did

why would you want them included in Most

states you record the deed based on the sale price and that's going to increase

it's going to increase your closing

costs um well I I guess the the the reason was

just if when um paid cash for the

house um and so I was thinking at some

point if we sell it it would look better

that that we purchase it for x amount as

opposed to x amount minus

250k no no doesn't affect sale price at

all what affects sale price when you get ready to sell is the actual value of the

house which includes the 250k worth of

stuff so when you get ready to list it 5

years from now you're going to say this is so many square feet and by the way we

added all of these things to it when we bought it five years ago and so it's a

it's a top-of the market uh appliances

or Top ofth Market flooring or whatever it is you you put in that increase those

things and so make sure you're considering that when we decide what we're going to list it for and also you

let the the appraiser at that time but

uh the what you paid for it or what you

uh what the tax rolls show has nothing

to do with the actual value I mean case

in point would be if you bought it at foreclosure for 50% of

value you know that doesn't doesn't keep

it from being valuable it has it's still

worth 100% even though you bought it at 50% at a deal and in this case it just

recorded no it doesn't affect anything at all I wouldn't worry about it not a bit this is the ramc show

[Applause]

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] [Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah how in the middle

of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-upping it because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much because Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking

the time to put this stuff in place the Costo stinking Pizza it really is so

that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander

for all of our fam's needs for insurance

for many years including of course term

life ins to get a free quote go to 8800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com

[Music]

thank you for joining us America we're glad you are here Ken Coleman Ramsey

personality number one bestselling

author of the book paycheck to purpose

and his new work um discovering or

finding the work you're wired to do

which comes with the uh the get clear

assessment to help you figure out what your strengths are and where you need to head with your whole career and

money-making Endeavors it's a great

thing it's just hit a a bunch of bunch

of uh uh bestseller things this week as

a matter of fact very cool hey the average interest rate for a 15-year mortgage dropped from six to

5.6 this week uh and the average this

week I'm sorry fell to 5.15 the lowest

we've seen since February of

23 so um almost 20 some odd months now

since we've seen an interest rate that

low so if you purchase a

$423,000 house with a 20 % down payment

on a 15-year uh the interest rate change

is the difference now of uh about $3

$4,000 a year year is what it would save

you so yeah if you're financially ready

if you're out of debt you have your down payment ready and you have your emergency fund in place we're huge on

the real estate market and this is the

time to do it if it's also a great time

to sell because there's a shortage of inventory so it's kind of a weird Market in that way but you need a good strong

real estate agent in your corner that knows what the flip they're doing high protein high octane so go to ramseys

solutions.com agent and you can find the

real estate agent that's ramsy trusted

that we have vetted in your area so

there we go open phones atle 8825

5225 Nicole is in Jacksonville hi Nicole

how are you good how are you better than I

deserve what's up

okay so um me and my husband are about

to bring a baby into the world in January next year and

congratulations thank you he's had this

credit card um with his mom um that he's

been having for like the past basically

year and a half but um she basically has

like joint ownership of his like account

and stuff like that because he's in the military so like when he first um got in

he was like oh well you're going to overse everything um just make sure like

my bills are paid and stuff like that but she opened up her credit card and

she's ran up like $14,000 since then and

um every time I try to talk to him about it like hey like what's going on with this like um you know is she G to take

care of it now that we're bringing a baby into the world I'm concerned and

like every time she'll ask him about it like she completely like gets angry or

upset and cries because she has loopus

and she has like a lot of medical bills

too so we're not really sure how to how long

have you been married we've been married for a year

and a half MH okay and what does she

make what does he make and what do you

make um he

makes like 55,000 a year and me I'm a student so

I'm still in school and everything so I work parttime how old are you old are

you too I'm 22 and he's 23 okay

yeah here's the thing here's the thing

stop you don't have a mother-in-law problem you have a husband

problem okay so hubby has got to decide

now that he there's a new woman in his

life that's not his

mother when you the old in the old days

people would say things like uh when you

get married you leave

your parents and

cleave to your spouse leing cleave we

called it okay and there's a boundary

drawn there's a new household has been established a year and a half ago now it

has a baby entering it okay and we're

not going to blame any of this on the baby we're going to blame all of this on

your husband the day you all got married

it was his job as a man to separate all

of his accounts from his mother

this is very boyish not manly

Behavior yes that he's engaging in and

so uh you if I'm in your shoes I'm going

to sit down very calmly and I don't care

if his mom cries I'm sorry and I don't

care I'm sorry she has lupus but the

reason she's crying is because she's

ashamed and because it works on her

little boy so we're going to have to help your

husband run down to Walmart and pick up a backbone they're on aisle

three and then he's going to walk in

there very calmly and gently and say Mom

now that I'm married and I have my own family we're not going to have any more joint accounts so everything is being

closed today and you're going to reopen

your own accounts mom and you need to

pay this $14,000 you rent up on this

credit

card okay and if she doesn't you'll have

to because it's got your husband's name

on it this is a mistake that he has made

and it may cost him and you $114,000

because I Got a Feeling This Woman's not going to pay this don't

you yeah yeah and you're not to be

involved at all you'll become the wicked

you'll become the wicked daughter in law

it'll be all your fault because this woman is a travel agent for guilt trips

okay yeah every time I like try to like

talk to her about don't you ever say a

word to her about this again yeah but your husband he needs to

throw his shoulders back and become a

man today

today this is weak and fearful Behavior

he needs to become courageous bold

gentle with his mom there's no reason to

be mean to her he's the one entered into

this arrangement but it does need to be

very thorough and complete

immediately it's absurd that a man that

is married and has a baby on the way has

joint accounts with his mommy that's

ridiculous okay you can play this back for him if

you want he needs to square yeah he needs to

square his shoulders and walk in there I

I don't want him to be unkind to his mom

but was his duty the week before you got

married to separate

everything when my kids were getting married we sat down two weeks before I

transferred every single mutual fund that was theirs every single checking account or piece of savings that was theirs completely out of our name and if

they went and did something stupid with it the next day that's on them because

they're now what's known as grownup

adults and so I'm it's not my job

anymore to manage them they they are now

free agents they're grown people and you

don't you don't even have to get married to do that but that happened to be the

when we made sure that everything was Final because I did not want to be interfering with my inla my my

daughters-in-law sons-in-law just like Nicole situation this is happening more and more yeah I the EM the emotional emical

cord needs to be cut and this is the

reason why is because the lupus she's my

mom mom she did this she's done that and

you cannot think rationally when you

were thinking emotionally you cannot

have a rational thought at the same time

that you have an emotional thought and

this tie together he's never going to act rational until the clearcut has

happened and I really would recommend that he watch this so that he realizes

you're not the bad person and and you

don't be pissed if somebody be pissed at me it's like a spiritual gift I have I'm fine with that yeah cut the cord man there's entire Reddit Pages devoted

doing that so you can and comment sections of everything so by the way this is only going to get worse I want the young man to hear every every day this goes on worse this every day this goes on and and we're not even going to blame this on the baby oh no not the baby this is something should have been done before there was a baby well I tell you it's the big baby I'm blaming it on

the big baby not the baby in the womb

the baby who has yet to mature yeah uh

and by the way Mom enabled this so there's enough BL go she didn't enable it she manipulated it she wanted it she

likes this he was mama's boy to go to to

Military and say Mom pay my bills yep

yep I'm not blaming that all on him yep

we got to let these kids fly folks kick

them out of the nest that's what the birds do mhm yeah that's

um this is a national problem to your

point we're see it's a real problem it's

a real problem this is the Ramsey Show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today today's Ramsey Network app

question comes from the Ramsey Network

app obviously if you don't know what that is you can download that app for free and you get this entire show every

day on video and audio so you can turn

into a podcast or a video watch whatever

you want the last segment of this show

every day is available only on the Ramsey Network app so be sure and do that and you can do stuff like ask a question there which is what happened here uh Taran uh sent us a question Ken

my husband and I just had a healthy baby girl in July and are transitioning out of stor mode and back into gazelle intensity in preparation for the hospital bills we were maxing out our HSA and have used nearly all of that

money on covering those bills I'm nervous to stop contributing to the HSA

and having no funds for a medical emergency to at least cover our deductible can you please ease my worries and explain why HSA

contributions should should also

stop um because all savings stops when

you're in gazelle intensity mode that's

why uh medical uh car

repair uh everything we're walking out

on the $1,000 tight wire and we're going to get

in attack mode and clean this stuff up

so uh but you do need to finish up whatever you're doing through the HSA with the medical bills I ain't get any problem with that with this particular set of medical bills but the HSA is an

emergency fund only for a medical

emergency doesn't cover other

emergencies and so it's like a you know

a part-time emergency fund a partial

emergency fund and we don't fund that

until we get to baby step three and so

um I no I would not do that now the the

exception uh no there's not an exception

I just would not do that I'm trying to think through no nope nope simple simple

Jacob is in Louisville Kentucky hi Jacob

welcome to the Ramsey Show

hi Dave hi Ken Ken how are you all doing

better than we deserve what's up hi so my wife and I we we have a

long-term goal to purchase some land

outside of Louisville uh and to build a

cabin on it and just make that our full-time home makes it close to church

and keeps us away from honestly the city

um which we so desperately want um but

we're trying to see how we can financially do that uh we found some

land we like we have a price on it we

know how much the house would be to build on it but I just don't know if

we're in a financial spot to do it

what's What's the total package land and

cabin right now sure yeah so land is

880,000 I think I can get them down to 70 but you know we'll say 80 um and then

house is

330 okay so let's call it 400 okay do

you own a home currently yes and what is it worth it's

worth 225 okay is it paid

for uh I have 150,000 left on the

mortgage okay so you get 70 from that if

you sell it as a down payment on your

cabin and land of 400 so you would take

out a mortgage of 330 in that case am I

right yes okay and what's your household

income uh collectively around 150 okay

so can you take out a $330,000 15-year fixed rate mortgage at

5% today and it be about a fourth of

your take- home pay I don't think you

can can

you uh no no I don't think so that's

we're thinking and tell me if I'm being

dumb which I probably am to purchase the land pay it off and

then sell our home no it doesn't change

anything you can just save up the money

to buy land and then sell your home it's

the same exact thing are you out of debt other than the house

we have a car loan that's going to go away here in the next week they'll be done then you need to build your emergency fund and then you need to be

putting 15% away for retirement and

start saving for land but you're not ready to do this deal today you can't afford it we have 30 already saved up does that

change anything on there or well where's your emergency fund we have about 20,000 in mutual

funds and 30,000 in savings okay all

right so how much of your 50,000 should

be your emergency

fund um which that would cover what and all

that is three to six months of

expenses okay that's 20,000 okay all

right and so you've got 30,000 then to

put between the two things you cash out the mutual fund you have 30,000 to put towards it so now instead of 70 we're

putting down 100 when your down payment

is enough that your house payment

becomes a 4 of your take-home pay we're

fine with that and then you go get a

construction loan that buys the land and builds the cabin you may need to rent

for a little while while you're doing that and get your house sold you may

have to move twice to make this work but

you've got to get that mortgage amount down to where your house payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed and um so your

take-home pay is what8 Grand n Grand yes

okay if we call it 10 you can take a $2,500 house payment as an example

right okay right and I don't think

that's going to support a 35 a $330,000

mortgage but it you know but as you save

more money you're going to get in a position to do that so it may be this particular piece of land gets away but

if you go byy the land now and finance it you're going to slow down the speed at which you pull this

off because you got more debt then to

support while you're trying to do all the savings so um be careful that you

don't do your dreams Jacob in such a way that they become a nightmare and so let's just slow down

you'll get there um or let's change the

house plan build less house on this

land um or let's change the construction

process and not where it doesn't cost as much I don't know I don't know what

you're talking about building on this acreage um

but uh you know I think you went

shopping for a house or for a piece of land before you were ready and now you got land fever yeah I remember getting land fever when we first moved here it's dangerous to keep going and looking at land when you're not ready man just wait till you're ready there you go it's hard

acknowledge that that's hard Chris is in Tampa hi Chris welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey guys thanks for taking my call

sure what's up um so I have uh two homes uh one is a

rental and one is my primary um the

rental has become more than I want to

deal with in my life um so much for

Passive passive income right um and I've

decided to sell it um and I guess my

question is um I have a financial

adviser I work with who's done really well for me um throughout my life and he

thinks that it would be in my best interest to take the proceeds from the

rental and um you know invest the money

um the proceeds will probably be about 150,000 is um uh but I feel like I

should take the money and put it in Pay

down my primary mortgage you are right your financial

advisor is wrong and why do you say that because as

we studied millionaires 10,000 of them

in the largest study of Millionaire's ever done we found that uh they had two

primary things that made them wealthy

steadily investing in their retirement

plans like 401ks in good mutual funds

okay and getting their home paid off the

typical millionaire that we run into say they had a million and a half million 8 net worth something like that the first stage of millionaire status they sitting

on A45 $600,000 paid for house and they

got 4 five 600,000 bucks in their in

their 401K very very few of them became

millionaires by investing with their financial advisor while keeping debt on

their home because it's essentially from

a balance sheet perspective what you stumbled into with your direction Chris

is that it's as if you've borrowed on

your home to invest and you would never

do that correct yeah because by not paying

it down in and instead investing it has

the exact same mathematical effect as

having borrowed on your home in order to

invest and that would be ludicrous from

a risk management standpoint because now you're putting your home at risk to play footsie with something your adviser wants to do no thank you yeah okay cool I want to hear what

you guys thought I I had a feeling you were going to say yeah I'm fairly predictable I've been saying the same thing over and over and over again for a long time my pastor told me day he goes

you say the same thing over and over and I said so do you

right well played yeah it's a great

point for 30 years yeah it's very

predictable but it turns out that the data actually backs up this idea of

being debt-free is one of the key elements of Building Wealth that's right it's undisputable there we go it's called Data yeah it's a fact those whole

fact thing facts get in the way of all this feelings this is the Ramsey Show

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today live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships Ken Coleman Ramsey

personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today open phones

at 8825

5225 Elliott is going to start this hour

off in Grand Rapids Michigan hey Elliot

what's up hey how are you you guys doing better

than we deserve how can we

help uh well thank you guys for what you

do uh my parents became millionaires

just following your guys plan um I'm

calling because my brother-in-law he's a

little younger than me he's 24 um he's a

pretty successful guy crazy hard worker

um but he's starting to get caught up in

a peer-to-peer lending program um that

unfortunately another family friend is talking him into um I know I can't you

know just kind of like this is stupid and ended at that um

do you guys have any advice how do I

talk to him about this because he's trying to make sure it's legit but he's also just keeps getting further into it

so well I mean the only way you can

convince someone is um is to the extent

of the quality of your relationship with them so if you have a deeper

relationship with him than this family

friend then you've got the ability to

get between them but if you have a

casual relationship with him that's about equal to the family friend you're probably not going to be successful at

this in order to hold someone

accountable in order to hold someone accountable and smack them in the back of the head you have to get your arm around their

shoulder yeah that's fair it it starts

with a it starts with a hug so I mean I

those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still I've had very little luck in my life answering

questions that people didn't ask

mhm he he has asked oh good which is

cool and I so he called you and asked

you about this yeah he was talking with me about

it and I was like there's a lot of red flags going up man and so he's just been

sending me things about it and I've been

is he trying to sell you and joining

it no I think he's just trying to sell

himself and kinding of prove he can out

discust me on it well now you got him in a good spot that that's okay then that's

good yeah so I I think that you know your best shot uh for persuasion is in

person in private you don't want to

embarrass him in front of um your sister

that he's married to I think or or your

or your wife is his sister I don't know whichever it is his brother-in-law but yeah so no embarrassment this is not going to be over a dinner with the gals

and you start but basically what I would

do is not call him stupid what what I

found is that that um the stuff that I

did when I that was really stupid when I was 24 came from trying to find a

shortcut I was trying to find a way to

get rich quick and it's very humorous to think

about that loaning money to broke people

broke people loaning money to broke people is going to cause you to get wealthy that's what peer-to-peer lending

is it's it's even funnier than that

because he's borrowing qand of the peer-to-peer but he's also like really

successful for his age like I think he could easily retire in like 10 20 years

if he wanted to yeah but he's not successful this he's success he's

successful because he's ambitious and a hard worker and and he looked over here

and went oh I'm I this may look on the

outside like it doesn't work but I'm

smart enough I can do this that's what I

did and that's how I lost my butt yeah Elliot I I I jump in real quick to say I

think since he's opened the door to you and your first response was red flags I

think you got to go back just as Dave said one1 and say hey I've done done my research and let me tell you what the data says that the risks are and I would

in this case play to the Natural real

fear to the actual high-risk situation

this is not a manipulation this is this

stuff is really really risky start

talking about the psychological and the relationship stuff start talking about

it's not an actual good investment strategy compared to and start showing

like the ramsy you know go to our website basically loaning money to people no one else will loan money to yeah you got to make the case but make the case kind of dumb but it's got to be databased right and say man

this is risky here's why the other thing

I would do is I would appeal to him to

say okay what you know let's study

wealthy people how many of them used

shortcuts to get there they really don't

they use their innate uh work ethic and

go-getter mentality in other words I think Elliott that your brother-in-law's Secret Sauce is him not that he hasn't

found the right thing to accelerate it yet he's the secret sauce I want him to

hear from you that you think he's

amazing and that this is a total

waste the it' be a waste of his time he

he's going to get he he's got the

ability to go far and go fast if he

stays away from things like this yeah

because of who he is so you've got this

admiration of him until he lost his mind

on this one thing right yeah yeah pretty

much I'm looking at him like man you've been doing so well up to this I would

say that over and over and over again

his secret sauce yeah his secret sauce

is him he's the secret sauce it's not

that he needs to find some you know the

multi-level people all go you need to find a a vehicle no you don't you're the

vehicle you know I need to find I need to find a a system no you don't you're

the system live on less than you make

and save money work your butt off that's

the system and that's the one that the

wealthy people use they don't go oh I found a Bitcoin there we look at that it

made it easy oh I found a algorithm

where I can do lotto tickets no you

didn't okay and so sh I mean this is

what get rich quick is based on that's

right is based on desperation or greed

yeah yeah and it always in either case

requires a level of Pride and pride is

what comes right before you fall I did

every one of these stupid butt things

every part of my story of losing everything in my 20s is because of those

exact things because I thought I could

do nothing down flip real estate and get

away with it because I was so

smart and everyone that does that

eventually goes completely freaking

broke um all the guys that did it when I

did it are all either out of the business or they paid off their debt one of the two they either went broke doing

nothing down flipped this house before there was Chip and Joanna they weren't even born yet okay and so this but it's

this stuff has been around forever but it's it's all rooted in desperation or

greed in your brother-in-law's case it's

greed that's right not not filthy greed

like horrible nasty person greed just

like I think I can do this because I'm

smarter than the average cat the rules

don't apply to me because I'm smart and

I work hard and I'm ahead of the game there something about all of these things that I want to make sure the audience catches what Dave said earlier every shortcut that exist always

requires you to suspend common sense and

the reason it does is because it you feel like it's that emotional I figured

out the hack and I'm going to Short

Circuit the system and so your emotion

takes over so the law of gravity doesn't apply to me exactly that's emotion flap

your arms boy you're about to hit the

sidewalk law of gravity applies boom put

your helmet little print right there on the sidewalk I know man it's exactly

what I did you know I understand I

understood intellectually the dangers of

Leverage but I thought I could beat it

that's the classic example flap your dadgum arms and hit the sidewalk That's

it man the law of gravity does not apply

to me mhm this is the Ramsey Show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host today number one bestselling author the best way to make the most of your money is by doing it on purpose most people don't win with their

money because we can't get them to do it on purpose if you will simply make the

money that you have behave and go towards your goals you will start hitting your goals but most people kind of wander along half asleep and then wake up at

retirement going oh man oh man hope the

government which is well known for its ability to handle money will take care of me bad idea you need a plan a plan

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you can click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or a podcast we'll take you straight in there Josh is in Charlotte

North Carolina hi Josh how are

you I'm anxious Dave how are you

oh okay better than I deserve what's

up well um my wife is a contract worker

she's uh doing HR recruiting and the

contract that she's with is slowing down

dramatically to the point where signs

are on the walls that she may be losing

her job in the next month or two we are

pushing hard to get out of debt um have

a medical loan uh from earlier this year

that we are hoping to be paid off by the

end of this year but our concern is with

the uh proposed incoming Doom um on the

horizon should we foro hitting debt hard

to switch to oh no we need to start

saving for a few

months that has the what I can't tell

here is um you gave a lot of metaphor

and dramatic things but no one has ever

said anything to her about this other

than she's observing things around her and feels like this is coming to a close I think she needs to go in and get some actual input from the leadership

team so the leadership team has told

them that with the way things are slowing down they don't know how much

longer their contract is going to be valid for but I would have another follow-up

question to that okay so how long is the

current contract going to last in other words is this a

reset or that the the whoever's paying

that contract can close that contract out at any time I just get really detailed on that but real quick Josh I

would immediately if I was in your situation and it was my wife in your in

her situation I would have her

immediately looking for a replacement

work I wouldn't necessarily pause on the

debt elimination I'd get real aggressive

to have some options out there while having this conversation let me tell you this if this is bad enough that you need

to stop all progress in your financial

plan and pile up cash because she's going to lose her job then she needs to go get another job yeah right

now is it that

bad it's it's starting to see that uh

they did a massive man you are hedging all over this year you sound like a

worrier I can't tell if you're worrying

or if this is really happening yeah uh

starting to no it's not it either is

this bad enough that she's ready to quit

her job and go get another one it's bad

enough that we ended up going to urgent care due to stress related illnesses

yesterday okay then happen to this

situation yeah then don't stand around wait on this to happen to you be proactive yes stop everything start

piling up cash and put her in a an

aggressive job hunt y she needs a new

job in two weeks

MH and then she needs to

quit and take the new job

no discussing this this is co hard cold

break these people have said we're about

to poop on you so Dodge the

poop okay fair enough I mean get after

it they told you what's they told you it's coming Dodge I'm telling you when I

hear about a storm coming I start to

make adjustments to the storm we don't

go well it could hit us it may not like

if it's dangerous and this is dangerous

financially address it get out front of

it Ken and I are the two guys standing in the front yard watching the tornado keep that in mind okay that is true I that was that's both of us all right

just just keep in mind that's who you're talking to I am ready but I'm waiting

till the last I can still get out of the way yeah Olay

right I never worry about Dave and when

the storm is coming because I know he's right where he is he know right where I'm gonna be right I'm G be walking right straight into it Jennifer is in

New York hi Jennifer welcome to the

ramsy show hi Dave hi Ken I love you

guys I'm hoping that you can help me with an issue um my husband and I would

like to purchase a one acre lot of land

but it's currently owned by a dissolved

LLC and there is an

$887,000 tax lean on it owned by the

town which exceeds the value of the land

which is most likely between 30 to

50,000 I have reached out to a couple

lawyers and they have let me know this

is beyond on their scope they've never seen like a weird situation like this

and I thought who better to help me than

the two you can't get clear title unless

the tax Lane's cleared so unless the town unless the

town will accept value the appraised

value you're about to overpay for this piece of ground no thank you right so I

do is this in New York

State this is in New Jersey in New

Jersey okay some states I don't I don't

know about New Jersey sell tax

leans to individuals they auction them

off and you buy them not for the amount

of the tax lean but less than the amount of the tax lean and then you can take

that tax lean and foreclose on the

property and have clear

title so if Jersey uh sells tax Lanes

Tennessee does not if you were in

Tennessee you would have to go into the

city municipality go into talk to the if

it's a small town the mayor if it's otherwise you talk to the tax assessor and say uh you have more owed on this

property than it is worth when you

foreclose you're not going to get all of

the tax stuff out of this uh can we

negotiate down to actual

appraisal and then then you got to

figure out why the current people that gave up and walked away would bother to

sign because they're not going to get anything out of this right so I don't think you're getting this piece of land probably it's probably a whole lot more trouble than it's worth sounds to me like but it's

worth poking around and learning about I guess if you if you're interested in it quick research says you can do it in the

the tax it does allow for it New Jersey

I don't know what the process is but you can do it you can buy a tax Lane they do

allow that okay well talk to the city and find out what you do to buy that tax Lane if you buy the tax if you buy the

tax Lane then you for close on the tax

lean the former owner would have to pay

you $887,000 you paid 60 for it okay and

they would have to pay you $87,000 to

stop your foreclosure now the other

thing you need to learn about then Jennifer and if you want to keep typing in there can you can does this have a

right of redemption some of some tax

leans have a 2-year right of redemption

so you could go through all this foreclose and they can come back any

time during that two years or one year

or whatever the right of redemption is and redeem it okay the owner of a

property or legally interested party May

redeem at any time as long as foreclosure has not begun okay that's

not a right Redemption then that just stops the Foreclosure okay but after

foreclosure some of them have an additional and you need to make sure of

that so what I would talk to Jennifer is

uh if you're going to go by the tax lean

before you do that talk to a title

company about what it's going to take for you to get clean title and buy title

insurance okay okay but my guess is if

you can buy the 87,000 what's the property worth it's probably only worth

30 to 50 but we why are you interested

in it yeah because so it is a lot that

is directly next to our property um and

it was from a builder who actually built

our house on one acre and then he I

think went bankrupt during the process sold off a bunch of the land to the town

but they must have had an oversight and not realize that this piece of land didn't transfer to the town so we're

trying to purchase this perfect yeah I

would go in and try to buy the tax Lan for less than the value of the property

and then do the Foreclosure or if the Builder will just sign it over to you as a favor and wave any rights of redemption you can have clear title tomorrow but you don't want to pay 87

for 30 this is the Ramsey Show

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my

co-host we invite you to stop by and hang out in the ramsy solutions Lobby

anytime you want we do this show from one to four central time every day and

um we can come in sit down for free we've got homemade chocolate chip

cookies and coffee it's all on us smells

like Mama's Kitchen in here not Corporate America and uh We've usually

got 50 to a couple hundred folks sitting around watching us do the show and they can hear the show and all that also in the lobby we have a a little stage that

we call the debt free stage on the debt

free stage is Quincy hi Quincy how are

you good how are you Mr Ramsey how are

you Mr Coleman good better than we

deserve sir where do you live I live in

St Louis Missouri very cool well welcome

to Nashville and how much debt have you

paid off Quincy paid off $55,000 good for you how long did that

take 36 months good for you and your

range of income during that 3 years 24,000 to 85,000 good for you what do

you do for a living I'm a business consultant good very good all right what

kind of debt was the $55,000 it was a rental property and two

cars you paid off a rental property for

$55,000 I did sounds like a fine piece

of property I so the the rental property I

had $111,000 left on it and the two

vehicles I had a truck which was worth

$155,000 at the time more than the

rental property more than the rental property and then I had my Cadillac

which I had just purchased at the

beginning of that year before when I started my debt free Journey that was around $29,000 to take so what's the story what

happened how'd you run into Ramsey and what made you decide to clean all of this up in just 36 months cuz you leaned

in man congratulations thank you I appreciate it so before I even knew

Financial Peace University or Ramsey

Solutions we were on the same page and I

didn't even know it before in high

school I had a negative experience with

debt with credit cards and so when I

moved out of my mom's house that's when

all of that came to light and paying off

those two credit cards that I had no

control over at the time it really

frustrated me and so I started learning

about finances and APR and interest

rates right out of high school and

turned into college and then I didn't

like college so I I had thankfully I had

got a scholarship I gave that back and I

decided to join the military to just

give me some stability until I decided

to to do what I wanted to do next and so

when I joined the military they sent me to El Paso Texas and the home church

that I found in El Paso offers FPU and

so I I learned more about Ramsay

Solutions learned more about financial liter literacy when I started FPU and

from there I mean my coordinator Mr Carlos and his

wife Mr Carlos is with us today but they

were spiritual mentors they were

Financial accountability Partners to me

and they led me through um they led me

through the course and I learned so much more so what branch of the military army

and what how old were you when you landed in El Paso I was 2020 wow wow 20

well thanks for serving our country y yes thank you and thank you God for

setting a mentor like Mr Carlos right on

a 20year old young dude in the Army

completely changed the trajectory of your life didn't they most definitely

yeah that church way to go Church what church is this hope City Community Church in El Paso Texas way to go hope

City you're living out your name baby most defitely you just laid out you laid out hope right here and did it that's EXA what's supposed to happen that's

exactly right wow you love somebody

enough to get all up in their life and

help them change the whole trajectory of everything and because you're looking at stuff that they're bringing you going oh

man oh man yeah I I can just see what I

can see it happening wasn't it most definitely yes sir man I love this

that's powerful that's powerful

dude you got a debt to pay back to young

guys later on you got to be Mr Carlos

the rest of your life man you you this

is awesome I love it I love it too so

what was uh what was the most difficult

adjustment after you so you're watching FPU you're engaged in the class and here

you are a young guy uh in the military

probably surrounded by a lot of other young guys with the first time they've ever had any money in their pocket most definitely what was the the big challenge for you to begin to adjust your lifestyle after you learned all

this after well it wasn't it wasn't much

of adapting to the principles because

these are all Godly principles and I grew up in the church so that part I understood and I was I was very excited

for what I really needed to adjust with

was making sure that I stayed focused speaking that there were young people

around me and even older people around me we're talking sergeants or you know

Sergeant First Class sergeant majors

that are are stunting so to speak like

they they have everything together and

me sitting over here eating on beans and

rice and what when I found out what

Moonlighting was uh I became a a travel

CNA I got that certification while I was

in the military and I got the document

signed by my commander and because of

that I was able to work overnight shifts

which were you know that helped and

that's what allowed me to be able to go

full force with you know paying off my

my vehicle at the time it jumped my

income up as well as you know when I

started my business after I got out the military and so uh I so you're how old

now I'm 25 how's it feel be free man oh

it feels it feels great you got of feel

so empowered you gotta feel like you got

muscle well it's not just that Mr Ramsey

but it's more so I have a responsibility

to pass it Forward yeah that's what I

yeah I've already called that out but yeah but I'm just saying you you're

you're incredible I'm so proud of you well done what a sharp young dude man

glory to God yeah amen glory to God Mr

Carlos and that church man that's good stuff right there that's the way it's supposed to be so um

you got a young private out there left home for

the first time doesn't know squat he's

listening to us right now what do you tell him well I would tell that private

specifically to to live below their means and to make sure that they

understand who they are and if they don't know who they are focus on who

they are and who they are because that

ultimately will help them not have to

feel that pressure and that burden of

living like everyone else yeah because it's not worth it that's

huge you nailed it right there one of the things we find among people that are able to build wealth and you discovered it and and are walking in it and you just gave that same advice back is that

you have to lose the need to impress

others yes sir when you quit carrying

what other people think Building Wealth becomes very easy because you really

need you spend almost no time on

Instagram very true because you don't

care what anybody thinks you're not posting look at me look at me look at me

cuz you don't care what people think just I I'm on beans and rice I'm going to get my overnight I'm going to get my CNA I'm going to jack this to

$84,000 a year I'm we'll get done here

in 36 months Mike drop man you're

incredible very cool very cool man neat

neat story I love it Quincy very very

well done all right so

um that advice you were just teach him

to yeah that's good advice very good advice what am I missing uh nothing I

just think I if you were going going to

uh share for people what it feels like

now on the other side of this you're about redo your debt free scream in about 20 seconds what does it feel like now as you're looking at your future it

feels bright is such an understatement I

was purposeful I was purposeful before

but it's it's even more empowering and

it feels like that I'm I'm creating a

legacy and and breaking generational

curses like never before is the American dream live and well to you it is live and well yeah thanks again for your service proud

of you way to go to that church and to

Mr Carlos and that's just beautiful by

the way he's here right is that Mr Carlos right there this is Mr Carlos and then this right here is Mr Allen Mr

Allen thankfully was able to make it because he lives here in Franklin Tennesse but he's the one that sold me

the my first house oh wow at 19 years

old oh very cool that's fun good good

way to go all right Quincy from St Louis

$55,000 paid off what a great story in

36 months making 24 to 85 count it down

let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1 I'm

Deb free

[Applause] yeah that is what you call transformation he will not go back he

will not well done this is the ramsy

show

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today's question of the day is brought to you by why refi 93% of undergraduate private

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toay that's the letter Y

rey.com Ramsey might not be in all

states today's question comes from Andre

in Indiana I'm being managed out of my

job at my current employer when I realized what was happening I got ahead of it and have turned in my resignation

so I won't have a termination on my employment record I have several interviews lined up and I'm not worried about finding another position my question is how should I approach obtaining a letter of reference from my

current employer should I need it well

you're going to approach it now before you leave a building number one number two you're going to approach it with some gratitude and humility and just say

hey I appreciate this opportunity to to

be here and uh I would love if you feel

comfortable uh being a reference for me

and give me a reference letter upon request are you comfortable with that it's just a man-to-man conversation or

man-to-woman conversation and that's

about all you can do there and hopefully you've left well uh we don't know what

the situation here is but I'm such a

proponent for people leaving well uh

even if you feel like you're not supposed to be there anymore even if you feel like you've got some tension you feel like maybe it wasn't the best

situation for you uh leaving well and

not burning that bridge is always the

right way to go because you have to assume that any future employer is going

to call your past employer and so

humility and gratitude and class would

be the three ingredients in the ask and

by the way with every remaining second

you have at that place before you leave

act with class yeah smile act with class

do everything so um most employers Andre

do not give references on forers because

of the liability right um and so we

don't if someone calls here oh the only

thing we'll confirm is that they worked here between this date and that date and

that's the only thing we'll tell you we won't say whether they're awesome I didn't realize that that's good for me to know I did not uh I've heard of that I didn't know that because um we don't

want to get sued right because we

referred them or told or told somebody

you know this guy's a he he wasn't good

right and then you turn around you get you get all this other stuff on you so

um yeah we just and that's not that

unusual in the employment market we've

learned when we're trying to check references the uh it's tough to get

people to actually um give you a

reference I want to sidestep Ken I want

you to coach for a second here and and I

want to join you in it um let's pretend

that Andre I'm going to make up

something for Andre I don't know anything about him so this is all pretend sure okay let's pretend he's 26

and this is his second job and he says I'm being managed out of

my job now if you were working at Ramsay

we don't manage people out of a job we

do manage them if they're not

competent we're going to talk to you

about it and help you work on your competence we do manage you and talk to

you about it and create uncomfortable conversations if you're not handling

your relationships with others inside the building well if you're being a torp

okay and so

um being the being the potential

employer of someone in this

situation

uh I I wouldn't take the position I'm

being managed out yeah unless you've got

a pure political situation going on it I

mean just because someone tells you to

suck it up buttercup and get better that

is not being managed out that's correct

so if I were coaching Andre I would ask

a lot of detailed questions uh what does

that actually mean yeah and to the best

of my ability uh be able to discern well

you're not being managed out or maybe you are now what it's going to look like in this case if we're assuming what he's saying is that someone is basically

being um uh making you as uncomfortable

as possible not in a way of leading you

for growth uh and having an uncomfortable conversation with your growth in mind

but actually being a turd to you to get

you to quit because they don't want to fire you does that happen it does but in

this case that's bad leadership that's bad leadership so I would be asking enough questions to find out what's really going on and to your point if

they are holding you to a standard that

they hired you to keep you aren't being

managed out you're being held accountable for what they're paying you for so I would be diving into what's really going on and then coach from

there and in many cases uh and I'm going

to say this just because you're uncomfortable that's right doesn't mean you're being managed out that's correct

or held to a standard right and so what

we got to determine we're seeing this a lot with the younger generation um

accountability is really really hard we

had we had one a while back that just

couldn't seem to get to work on time wander in an hour late and we say you

know well you're creating stress by yeah

that's kind of like what we do here we create stress for you you need to be here on time if that's stressful just suck it up I mean that's I know I'm

sorry about your anxiety get your butt to work on time okay this is what we do

and so uh and that's about how it would

sound I mean we might be a little Kinder than that but you know it's a pretty

simple thing we open the building at a certain time and you need to be here by

then yeah you have to reframe that it's not creating stress right they say that

I'm not creating stress but it's like anyone that ever told me I'm not perfect

in the apple of my mother's eye now is

managing

that's that's just a bunch of crap

that's what I'm saying okay so now there's two possibilities you're you're being that I'm not saying that Andre is

but if you be careful when you're using

a phrase like I'm being managed out you are taking the position of victim and

you might not be the victim that's right

that's what I'm saying you might be you

might be the victim you might be a bunch of political junk and they're you know they're moving the chest pieces around trying to knock you over and get you out because they don't want you there and they don't have the uh the backbone to

just fire you right you know the metaphor I would use here Dave is are

you being coached or are you being

mistreated there you go and a coach and

I I I usually return to sports because I

grew up playing sports discomfort does not mean you're being mistreated yeah you know I I watch these NFL Training

Camps these are millionaires and the coach is pulling them off the off the field and they are coaching them up they're getting out those little Microsoft pads on the sideline and

they're showing these young quarterbacks

that franchise quarterbacks here's what

you did wrong on this interception that's not mistreating that kid that is

coaching that kid on what they expect of

them because they're paying them millions of dollars a year and the same

metaphor holds true in the workplace is

your leader coaching you are they M are

they mistreating you yeah that's true

exactly what I'm saying exactly what I'm saying because we spent a lot of time

and money to hire you and get you in

here that's that's right and so we're not going to to manage anybody out um

yeah it cost you more to replace them exactly we're going to try to help you make it that's exactly right but that may involve discomfort and it should it usually

doing something you've never done before or something you suck at and you got to get better is discomfort it it's not

comfortable it's outside your comfort

zone a quarterback feels really uncomfortable when he runs off the field

after throwing an interception because there's 75,000 people that are mad at

him and his head coach but guess what

that's the price of admission that that's the ticket to the B and me yeah

so step it up yeah so again I think

that's a good clarification are you being coached and if you are expect discomfort because that's what called growth that's right and you're moving up and in if you're being mistreated then

you're being managed out but either one of those could fall under this yeah phrase I'm not I I don't like the phrase

is what I'm saying it feels very victim

I felt the same thing when I saw it you know yeah and it but it it could be that

he's just he might be the victim of some

toxic politics it very well could that

happens all the time there's no question they're bad lead spineless leaders will

do stuff like that that's passive aggressive rather than just fire somebody that's right so you don't have that trouble here we're going to tell you this is what we're doing if it doesn't work we're going to tell you it didn't work we don't we're not

scared we're not afraid and we're not

mean and we're not unkind so hey guys

for all of you listening to the show on YouTube or the podcast it's about to end

you can get the entire show including

the next segment on the Ramsey Network

app which is free download it in the app

store or Google Play you can go out the

full video or audio podcast production

either one of the whole thing but certainly the last segment every day so

click in the not show notes and check it out we'd love to have you join us the

Ramsey Network app in the app store the whole thing's free we're not charging a thing for this this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show is happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue

watching you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over

for you so jump onto the app and let the

fun continue all right go on now don't

make it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

---

## 218. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 27, 2024)


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:16:52 |

---

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Start budgeting for free today.

From Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Kamel and joined by my good friend Rachel Cruze and it's open phones this hour at 888-825-5225.

Help us help you take the right next step for your money and your life. Isaac

is going to kick us off in one of Rachel's favorite towns, Knoxville, Tennessee, home of the Vols. What's up, Isaac? Go Vols, Isaac. Absolutely, go Vols.

Good to talk to y'all. Pleasure. What's going on?

Yeah, so I'll start with the question then get some info on.

Uh um my question is should I liquidate some of my taxable investments to provide a larger down payment for a house? And if so, how much?

Um So I'll start with some info. We're on the equivalent of baby step 3B. We've got the emergency fund, no debt.

Uh we live in a house. Uh we're renting a house for about $500 a month. Wow.

And it would not be super Yeah, it's it's quite a blessing. We're uh staying in my in-laws' house. So great relationship there, thankfully. That explains it. Wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um so it would be not ideal to raise a child here. So we'd like to get into a home before we uh start down that path.

Um but we are not sure if we should use my wife's prospective income. She's not working right now. She's looking for a job. Not sure if we should use her uh future salary to um account for the 25% take-home pay recommended for monthly mortgage. Um so we've got $55,000 in liquid cash between a high-yield and a treasury and an additional 115 in those non-tax advantage investment accounts. Way to go. What are those What are those in, Isaac? I'm just curious. Is it mutual funds, stock? Yeah, they various mutual funds.

Yeah. Okay. All right. And you're saying should I use this money for the down payment? I personally would. What else were you saving this money for?

Well, it they didn't really have any uh specific earmarked past that. I mean we're doing other um tax-advantaged accounts like Roth IRAs, HSA, and employer Roth 401k.

So you're Are you investing 15% of your income right now into retirement accounts? Yeah, I think it's maybe a little bit over when we're uh all said and done with matching those accounts. How much will you need for the down payment?

Um well, in our area 300,000 for a house

is about the lower end. Anything less than that would require quite a bit of restoration. Um but in order to get that 25% of just my take-home pay cuz we're not sure what she's going to be making and if she'll be working long-term or not. Uh if we're going to have kids, we'd like for her to stay home if possible.

Um looking at probably around 100,000 or

more mark.

But it's a little bit of just trying to convince myself that I see all that in the investment accounts and then Well, that's Yeah, the problem when you when you invest for no reason, then you go ah I don't want to use this toward the house. But if I told you when you started, hey this is going to be your home down payment fund, you'd have no problem cashing it out.

Yeah. So I if I'm in your shoes, Isaac, and I've done this cuz our first townhome was $300,000 and we saved up and we put I think it was, you know, 40% down on that and paid the rest off quickly. I think you're going to be in the same boat. So if you liquidate this, you might have some capital gains, of course. Use some of the cash, leave your emergency fund fund separate. And then if you could put down 50%, I mean that'd be amazing.

Yeah, and I think the reality that your wife is going to get a job. So finding on average what you think she's probably going to make, I would add that to the equation cuz she I mean what kind of line of work is she in?

Uh well, she's got a master's in education, but we've decided for various reasons she's not going to go back to teaching in like a middle school. Um she is looking at a local university at UT.

Um possibly working there or some other companies in town. Just wanting to help um help people do do the work that they love. So she's she's very much um a supporting role kind of person when it comes to work. Not necessarily exactly the job.

It doesn't really matter too much. It's just who she's able to help is is what's really important to her. Okay, but she will be working is my point.

So it's going to give her enough time to find a job and while you guys are looking. So yeah, I definitely I think you're you're in a great position and I would take some of that money out of a mutual fund for sure for a down payment. Okay. Got you. And then I do have one quick follow-up question.

Um how much cash would you all recommend staying liquid? I heard that in the next in the 6 months or so after you get a house, it's going to be repairs like $1,000 a month is a good estimate. And we also want to have enough to pay cash for a car if one of our two older cars

goes out. I would just create a sinking fund. I you don't need to, you know, park 20 grand just for that. I would just start a sinking fund where every month you put away, you know, 100 bucks, 200 bucks to start covering some of that.

Maybe that car becomes a $500 sinking fund and 12 months from now you got six grand. So you you decide what's right for you guys and your family and when this car might kick the bucket or when you want to upgrade. But I think sinking funds are the easier way to do that.

Yeah, and if you need additional money, that's what the emergency fund's for, too, that you can use, Isaac. Some people Sounds like you'd be like, how could I not use this, right? That's a game people play. Well, you shouldn't have to use the emergency fund at all costs. Yeah, I know. Your savings muscle is incredible.

And so the hard part for you is just letting go of that and actually using it for your future goals.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a good point. how how young are y'all?

Uh I'm 26 and she's 25. You guys are

unicorns. You're going to build so much wealth. I'm not concerned about letting go of these investments cuz you're going to build it right back up. And guess what? In a few years, you're not going to have a house payment. I can tell you're the kind of guy who's going to knock out this mortgage. You're going to replace that mortgage payment with investing. And before you know it, you'll have another 100 grand saved up.

All right. So way to go, man. Thanks for the call. guys. Yeah, thanks for the time. Love a Vols fan, Rachel.

Well, they're all smart. They're all smart, you know. It's here for the right team. You have wisdom. Wisdom everywhere. Spoken like a die-hard Vols.

Wow. It is good, though. But I think it's a good point you made that when you when you're putting money away, especially this is non-retirement, right? So if he's talking about 401k, Roth's, you know, 403b's, in that world

we would say no. We do not cash out retirement. But these investments that

are not retirements, but are, you know, whether you're out there and you have company stock or single stocks, mutual funds, um using that money towards something that's going to continue to up your net worth and up your quality of life, which is a down payment. And and almost, you know, a house I feel like is a great asset.

And this is why we always say to pay it off. Don't just leave, you know, if you have money to pay off your house when you're in baby step six, do it because it's like assured that your money's going to something worthwhile.

a forced savings plan with a kind of guaranteed rate of return. And once you get that paid off, I mean that's an amazing feeling where you now have the margin to do even more wealth building.

And so I think the hard part for a go-getter like our friend Isaac is I just want to keep saving. I don't want to let it go. But guess what? On the net worth statement, nothing changed. You just moved the money from here to a different house. And it's hard because you don't see the number going up like you did with your investments.

But what you do have is a lot of peace when that mortgage payment is such a small part of your world because you put 50% down. And you took on a reasonable mortgage. What most people do is say, I don't want to touch the investments. I'll take the whole thing out in the mortgage and I'll be fine. Yes. The mom

wants to stay home and they go, oh my gosh, I can't breathe. That $2,000, $3,000 mortgage payment now feels like it's too much. Feels like a lot. Yeah. And which is smart that they were even talking about, you know, you can't control everything in the future, right? So there's there's things that you have to make decisions on today that are wise. Um so her

knowing that I she'll probably get a house, right? But even the fam Some people are like, well, should we like wait till we start a family, all of this, right? But if you're in the market to buy, now is the time cuz prices are only going to continue to go up.

you're out of debt, you got the emergency fund, you got the pile of cash for that down payment, don't sit around cuz guess what? The Fed rates are going to go down, home prices could go up, and you're going to go, oh my gosh, I should have bought. I should have bought. Don't try to time the market. This is the Ramsey show.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the breadwinner of a family dies

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel, joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruze. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Rafael's up next in Kissimmee, Florida.

What's going on?

Hello. How are you? Doing well. How are you? Good. Good. Um, so, my wife and I can't

uh come to an agreement here on how to uh what to do with our motorcycle loan that we have. Oh, this is a fun one.

Rachel loves settling debates.

I love motorcycles, too. Who do you think is right?

Honestly, I I can't answer that. Okay.

Smart man. Yes. Okay, what's going on? What's the What's the issue?

Okay, so, I just think uh I I have an employee uh

stock purchase plan. Um, it's going to

vest, I think, in December. I'll have about $13,000 in there.

Um, I just tell her I'd rather leave that in there and get a loan to

figure out what what the upside down is, cuz I I want to get out bonus as I can.

And instead of owing 23, let's say I'm upside down by 10,000.

Um, I can get a personal loan for 10,000 and knock that off um

fast as possible, I guess. saying no, liquidate the stocks, and let's not go into debt.

Be completely debt-free.

Uh yes. Is this the only debt you guys have? Are there Is there more?

No, I have a personal loan of 20,000.

And you want to get more personal loans.

Mhm. Yeah, I see.

I'm just walking through the train of thought here. Now, I love that you're wanting to trade down your big debt for a smaller debt, but I like your wife's thinking more of we could be completely debt-free instead of you know, struggling to pay this next 10 grand off while trying to pay the other 20 grand off. Plus, when that When you have that volatile single stock, I mean, that thing could drop.

And so, I love the idea of using this as a blessing. You got that stock at a discount, let's sell it. And uh you know, it'll probably be in minimal gains.

And be out of debt completely.

Okay. What's your thinking in keeping keeping the stock? Do you just like to see the number go up?

Well, I So, my thing is I I I make 80,000 uh 80, 85.

Um, and I I just tell her wouldn't it be better once we if I do get the loan and I knock it down quick with her

I guess I want to just leave the money in there, so when we get debt-free, I can go buy like, say, a a cheaper $5,000

uh I'm really not that good with budgeting.

Uh clearly, obviously, I'm in debt, unfortunately, but we we want to prove our family wrong that there is a way to be debt-free. She's on board, I'm on board, too. I I just don't know

um how to tackle this.

Well, the best way to prove them wrong is to become debt-free and stay debt-free. Would you not agree?

Yeah. Yeah, I I agree. Are you guys um your wife Are you Do you guys have your money combined? Like, are you cuz you said I'm making 85,000. Is she working as well?

Yeah, she she gets about um $800 every 2 weeks take home. I get

about 26 every 2 weeks.

Okay. What does she do for a living?

Uh she uh She's a full specialist like in uh facials, nails, um etc. Things like that. Okay. Okay. Okay. And And are you guys um Yeah, does she have any debt?

She does, but that That's like a whole I I would say if you wanted to throw her thing in there, too, we're looking at maybe 30,000 on top of that, but I've been trying plus 30. You have a personal loan for 20, you also owe how much on the motorcycle?

Uh 23. So, you have 43 there, and then

she has 30? What's her 30 in? Um it would be like miscellaneous

like uh self One of them would be like Verizon, another one would be student loans. Okay. Most of it is student loans, but Okay, so, Rafael, let me tell you this. I love love and very encouraged that your goal, both of you, want to prove people wrong and not just That's not the goal to prove them wrong, but to prove them wrong to be debt-free, right?

So, you both want to become debt-free. You both want to live a debt-free lifestyle. So, what we have found is the fastest way to get from where you are, which is just the starting off point, to actually accomplishing that is a couple of things. First and foremost, you will win I'm going to say three, four, five times faster when you guys work together as a team.

Your language is still a hers over here, mine, my income, her income. When you start you and her start actually looking at numbers together, that combination of combining finances, working out of the same bucket, seeing this together, tackling all of this together, regardless of whose {quote} {unquote} debt it is, it you're going to get so much momentum by just simply doing that. It's unbelievable. And I'm telling you that because when you start doing a budget together, which we're going to give you uh EveryDollar Premium after this call, but when you guys sit down together and you start doing a budget together, and you start cutting expenses together, and you start making decisions about what you're going to have for dinner together, because you're not going out to eat, like, things start to really pick up speed when there is an emotional attachment that you guys are a team.

And again, that starts with the numbers.

than you are now. And then number two, you're trying to do too many things to

get the goal that you want. And it's And it's way less complicated than what you're making it to be. So, everything we talk about is is to liquidate everything but retirement accounts to pay off debt.

So, that would mean liquidating the stock, putting it towards the debt.

That would be selling some stuff, figuring out what you're going to sell the motorcycle, which is great. But when you start doing these things, and you guys are making 100 and around 105 a year, um it's a it's amazing the progress you guys can make when you are focused intensely on one thing, and that is getting out of debt. It's not trying to get you know, do retirement over here, it's not trying to like get some liquid cash over there. Like, it's not trying to do 18 different things.

Together, your number one goal is to get out of debt, and that's maybe working extra, selling stuff, cutting expenses together. Like, I mean, it's all of this snowball effect that occurs.

that's going to fuel this behavior change, which is key. That personal finance, it is 80% behavior. It is only 20% head knowledge. So, you're going at this more from a head knowledge standpoint and less of a behavior, and I want you to you know, flip those two. And just try it. Try it our way. And And if you look at it in 6 months, and if in 6 months That's right. And in 6 months, if you're like, this isn't working at all, you can do it your way. But try something different.

Yes. Yes. Awesome. And um just one last

question. I I heard you say you like motorcycles, too. Oh, I was kidding. Sorry. Will this

Will this uh budget app or like, will this teach me once we do finish Baby Step 2, how when am I allowed to go buy a $5,000

motorcycle off of Facebook or Yep. When am I allowed to do these things and actually enjoy, you know?

It's simple. Once you have a foundation to where you have no debt and an emergency fund, that's when you move from this intensity to intentionality.

Where you go, all right, if I save up 500 bucks a month, in 12 months, I'll have $6,000 saved up to go buy a used motorcycle in cash. Do you see the difference there? Versus rolling up to the dealership and them going, "Hey, we got a nice shiny one over here, and that we can get your payment down." That's how broke people think. They think about how much down, how much a month. Rafael, from now on, is going to think like wealthy people.

How much can I afford it right now? If not, we got to act like an adult and say, "We can't do this right now." Yeah, and that's after paying off all of your debt and having a three or yeah, three to six month emergency fund saved.

And once you do that, you're good to go.

You're good to go. Take, you know, take a great vacation, buy a motorcycle, you know, you and your wife together deciding on some of these big purchases.

Um but that would be Yeah, that would be the time. So, it's going to be maybe maybe a year or two.

You know, a year, 2 and 1/2 years.

Uh but I'm telling you, you'll do it with so much more peace and enjoyment

and freedom than you will trying to Yeah. Continue to live this this lifestyle. And your your arguments and debates will change. It'll be like, "Where are we going to go on vacation this year?" instead of, "Okay, what debt are we going to pay off first, and how are we going to do it?" So, the fights get better as you get to a better place financially, Rafael.

So, let me encourage you with that. And uh I I If you follow the things that Rachel just told you, you were going to have so much freedom. Not even 2 and 1/2 years from now, a few months from now.

Yeah, so, hold on the line, uh and Taylor's going to pick up, and we want to give you guys EveryDollar Premium and FPU. We'll throw in Financial Peace University, because I think so thank you. You know, learning some of these basics you two together watching these videos and and kind of going through this thing is going to be really really helpful. Thanks for the call Raphael. More of your calls coming up triple eight two five five two two five. This is the Ramsey show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. We're glad you're with us. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze.

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Catherine's up next in San Francisco.

What is happening, Catherine?

Hello. Hi, thanks for taking my call.

Hey, sure, happy to help. What's going on? Um so, basically I have a 401k from a

previous job um and I was wondering if I should roll it into my current 401k or I also have two annuities that are variable annuities.

Okay.

How long ago was this job in this 401k?

How long it's been sitting there?

Um it's been sitting there for probably about 5 years.

It's time, don't you think? It's collecting dust over there.

It is.

So, generally the the best thing to do would be to roll it over to an IRA and do a direct rollover. So, what you don't want to do is withdraw the money. You don't want to see the money, you want to directly put it into that next retirement vehicle. And if you have a great 401k with great options and low fees, you could roll it directly to that new 401k. The difference is the the IRA is outside of your employer and you have way more options.

And it's in your control. So, we like the IRA for that reason. Was it traditional or was some of it Roth?

It was traditional. Okay. So, you want to make sure you do a direct rollover to a traditional IRA and that way you'll have no no kind of fees or penalties there.

Okay, perfect. And then I do have some money in savings, but I have it kind of in just some of those saving apps and I was wondering if you think I should roll it into a high yield savings account or one of the money market.

Yeah, high yield savings account right now are actually outperforming money money market accounts on on most basis, but you can what I would do is and what we've done is look at look at an online bank cuz usually you can get a better rate of return especially just for a high yield savings. So, I like that option the best

because I mean money market accounts, yeah, for the most part they they act, you know, pretty similarly to high yield savings, but what I have found at least in the last probably, I don't know, 12 months or so, we saw better rates of return with a high yield personally, but do some of your research and look, but yeah, just looking at it like a Ally Bank or you know, sometimes of Cuz you're getting like 0.01% right now interest on your savings, I'm guessing. Yeah, what app is it in?

Yeah, it's essentially like the like Acorns and Capital. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah, I

would be more I would I would be a little bit more aggressive with it. Yeah. So, yeah, I would look at an online bank just a good high yield savings and making sure that you know, some of them can come with like limitations meaning like you have to have a certain number or a certain amount in order to open it and all of that, but Yeah, you want to look for one that's good with no fees, no minimum balances, all of that. And there's a ton out there.

And essentially I'm kind of wondering is that money accessible when it's in those savings accounts cuz I feel like I'm going to be able to need to access it.

Yeah, it is. It may take one to two business days we found to take money out of our high yield savings and transfer it to our checking account. So, and some of them will come with check writing privileges even out of it and a debit card, but you can only do up to like five transactions a month. So, yes, you can get to it for sure, but it's just a good place to put long-term savings.

It would not be a account an account that you would use for everyday transactions, but something that you're like, oh yeah, that money can just sit and grow.

Yeah, cuz the only reason I kind of have savings right now is well, I'm about to move somewhere where rent is going to be higher. So, I just was also wondering if eventually if I kind of went through the savings, which obviously hopefully not going to happen, but then can I just close out the account?

Yes. Yeah. Just pull the money out and close it. Yeah.

Without penalties? Okay, awesome. Yeah, thanks for the question, Catherine.

Next up, we've got Hannah in Chicago.

What's happening, Hannah?

Hey, how are you guys? Doing well. How are you? I'm good. You guys are my favorite duo, so I'm happy to see you both.

So, my question is I have a truck loan.

I owe 6,000 on it right now. I can get

about 9,000 for private sale. So, I was

wondering if I should sell it, clear the car note, and then be able to pay off my remaining two personal loans and be debt free or continue working the debt snowball method. What are you going to drive if you sell it?

Um I'm not sure. I haven't got that far, but I do work in town and I do have a work truck. If my place of employment would allow me to drive that, I've thought that might be an option. Hannah, I probably wouldn't considering how low of cost that this is.

Like if you told me you know, that it was, you know, 30,000 or something, but I'm like, you know, if you sell this, you would cash out 3,000 and then you go buy a $3,000 car and the difference between a $3,000 car and a $6,000 car isn't like crazy different, right? I mean, I just I think you'll be going into a similar type of vehicle. So, I would just from simplicity's sake, I would just put this in the debt snowball. if you like the truck, the truck's not the the major problem here.

Um I have a personal loan for 2,500 and then a very small consumer debt of 900.

So, I'm almost there. I think I'm just I'm ready to be debt free and I'm getting so close. I was considering it, but Yeah, you're you're not nothing's on fire here. You're not in a desperate situation. I just don't want you turning around and going, well, all the cars I I that are reliable are going to be 6,000.

Now I need to come up with the extra three. And so, it's not a huge part of your debt and I would just knock it out and keep the car. What's your income? That's what I thought, too. I make 57 a year. Awesome. Well, you'll be there in no time. I know, you're doing great.

I think so. Yeah, knock out that 900 and that 25 first and then just start attacking the truck.

Awesome. Thank you guys. I appreciate it. Absolutely, happy to help. All right, let's keep it moving. Jonathan is in Lexington, Kentucky. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi, thank you so much for all that you guys do. Happy to be on the show.

Appreciate that. How can we help today?

So, I'm in a really really good position all things considered, debt free uh out of college and making more than I'm spending. Uh where I live is a fairly

uh low cost of living area, but my question is now that I have 10k

saved, everyone is encouraging me to use that 10k to get a loan for a down payment for a lot

and build a rental cabin and then uh sell that, turn a big profit. And I figured you guys might have Are you talking about like three knucklehead friends of yours?

My broke brother-in-law, yeah. Okay.

Just feels like a very oddly specific goal.

Well, I'll tell you why. In In the place that I live, it's very high in tourism, and so a lot of people have have made money by by virtue of rental cabins. What's your um Yeah, what's the pri- what's your primary home um situation?

Well, I live uh I have a fantastic living situation uh thanks to my employment. So, I I have

I don't pay anything for where I live.

Uh and I live by myself, so it's amazing. Uh but where I live is heavily

it's a tourism area, and that's that's business year-round. And so, every rental cabin that's filled is bought. And so, the question is with only 10,000, you know, having outright I mean You're Yeah. Yeah, you're break- you're breaking up, too.

I We can't We can't get Okay, my my fear, Jonathan, is I want to make sure you're taking care of yourself. So, the fact that you're you're living somewhere that you're not paying anything or getting any equity, if you leave this job, you'll probably end up having to rent somewhere for a bit. So, I almost on the side would take that 10K.

Yes, I'll be here for a long time as long as I can without screwing it up.

Okay, but there's but I want you I want Jonathan to own a home eventually because I don't want you to get to 50 years old and not have any money to go and buy a home, and then you have to go take out a $300,000 mortgage. So, um so, I would be thinking about my living situation first and foremost cuz that housing part of your budget eventually will be the largest part. So, no, I would not take 10 grand and go into debt for a rental cabin, even though it's the best market.

shiny. I mean, this is basically get-rich-quick for your area, and I know it's worked for a few folks. You're not in a place to be a real estate investor quite yet. So, just hang on, keep saving up, get your own place, and later on in life, we can look at that option. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze this hour. Today's Ramsey Network app question is from Melissa. What does Melissa have to say?

She says, "I am single and about to move into my first apartment. My question is, how do I keep from spending foolishly since I'm now responsible for supporting myself. I would like to have an accountability partner to keep me straight, and I'm not sure how to find one. I have been hurt by people in the past, so I spend money to fill in the emotional gap." Wow, very self-aware.

Yeah. Melissa, I need to change that way of thinking, so any advice you have would be fantastic.

Well, therapy is a I think a great start. I think we need to figure out what's at the root of all of this and start to kind of heal from that. And I do love the idea of an accountability partner as another thing, and that could be friends. I'm They don't have to be like your best friends physically.

I mean, we have a great Facebook group, the Ramsey Baby Steps community, and they're always encouraging each other in there, and they'll say, "Hey, someone talk me off the ledge. I'm going to go add to cart over here." Um and then the budget is really it's kind of a built-in accountability partner.

Yeah, I mean, I think obviously there's pain from some levels of relationship.

I'm not sure which kind that um that

you've yeah, been burned by, and so I think sometimes that hurt and that rejection does come out sideways, and it looks different for for everyone. And in your case, being I mean, very self-aware, that yeah, you spend money to probably keep yourself busy or to keep yourself feeling good. And I think there's a reality of understanding that, you know, what's the What is the truth of what money does? And you know, the it's been scientifically proven that buying stuff does not fulfill you and does not give you literal happiness or joy long-term.

It just doesn't.

I think there needs to be some good input in your life, and that's where like therapy, George said that. And even I don't know what Even the word accountability partner, I don't know why, George, it kind of makes me kind of makes me Yeah. So, only therapy. Instead of accountability partner, have a good friend in your life who loves you a lot, who will ask you questions, who will dig in, who wants to know your story, sit with you in the hurt and the messiness of life.

want to hang out with that person. But here's the other side. Don't have friends that also spend frivolously and are always going out and are broke.

Like, put people around you respect your boundaries and respect what you're doing. And who also want to grow. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

So, yeah, having having just yeah, people in your life, but it's going to take time for you, I think, you know, to to build that trust because of obviously what's happened to you in the past. And the beautiful thing is about moving into your first apartment is you got bills now. So, you kind of have to go the bills have to get paid. There's not going to be a whole lot of extra, you know, margin just to go spend frivo- frivolously, and that's where the budget becomes even more important once you gain that independence.

But good for you.

That's impressive. Okay, let's get to the phones. Dave is in Charlotte. What's happening, Dave?

Hi guys. I'll try to make this short and sweet. I have a $1.5 million house

that's in an area where the houses sell normally in less than 7 days at or above asking price. And you guys have made very made me very cost-conscious, so it's hard for me to justify to pay a 6% commission or $70,000 for a house that's going to sell in less than 7 days, basically just to get it listed on the MLS.

So, what are my um options? I know a real estate attorney said he would charge me $6,000 to do the actual close. But in terms of working with agents, can you shed any light on how I can minimize the commissions?

Well, they've they've changed the structure recently, um and it's kind of

become an, you know, a big bubble effect within the real estate world, but I think a lot of agents are still uh kind

of abiding by that 6% the 3% 3% split.

So, um I mean, if you're using someone for their services, um I mean, I guess it it's now it can be dependent on the agent choosing to do on the commission side because it has changed in recent months.

But overall, I mean, you're using their services, so you will be yeah, paying some level of a commission, I'm sure.

Um if you want to do sell by owner, you know, you could do that where it's just you um doing it, then you wouldn't have a an agent involved, but usually we find statistically speaking, you'll make less as a private seller versus if you actually use an agent. But so, I would use an agent, and I understand the frustration around it, and some agents are changing their commission structure because of everything that's happened in recent months. So, you could talk to them and see what they would say and what they were what Yeah, what they're requiring for their services.

Yeah, cuz I I recognize there's some value to an agent handling some things, but I recently had an inspection done, so, you know, I think it would be a relatively very clean sale in a very short period of time. And you know, for me to pay somebody $70,000 for a week's work. What did you buy the house for?

Uh 550.

So, you're making a million dollars off of this. Right. That's pretty wild.

So, letting go of 25 years. Yeah, you've hung on to it, and that's appreciated. Why are you guys selling?

Uh we're just downsizing and and we're tired and moving to another house. Okay, that's great. Here's what I'll say about the agent. I think if you if you're just looking to get it on the MLS, and that's all the agent's good for, then you need to find a better agent. A good agent's going to make up for what they cost you.

Uh and that might be, you know, if you went for sale by owner, you might get 1.43. We don't know. And if you work with a great agent, maybe they get you, you know, you start an a bidding war, and you got 1.57.

Right? Right. So, that's part of it.

I just went through a tax deal with the city, so I've done a pretty extensive study of comps, you know, in the neighborhood and in the zip code, so, you know, the data is pretty readily available in terms of how long they sell and what, you know, how close to asking price, so that's usually the value that a agent brings, but in this case I'll just have to look at other options, I guess. like you should go into real estate, Dave. You've You've done all the work, man.

Yeah, I I know it hurts and it really I'm the same way cuz I'm super frugal, but the one thing I'm willing to spend money on is a good agent for the largest transaction of my life, which I assume this is for you. that, but like I say, knowing the the area so well and, you know, knowing that what what they're selling at um Yeah. I mean, there's ways you can negotiate.

You know, let's say your your agent who's going to sell, well, that becomes your buying agent and they end up taking 1 and 1/2% off.

Yeah, yeah. And so, that stuff happens all the time, so I would get in touch and if you want to kind of that some, we've got Ramsey trusted real estate agents. Go to ramseysolutions.com/agent

and see who's out there. Interview them.

See what they're willing to do and see what they're willing to offer.

I'll reach out for a couple of them. Thanks for your time. Absolutely. It's a great question. I love that you're thinking this way and it's what's helped Dave build this level of wealth. Well, and to have a mediator between you and the buyer and all of that, right? I mean, like it's just they take they take a lot of the grunt work out for you.

They do they really do help. Absolutely.

Thanks for the question. Andre's up next in Houston, Texas. How can we help, Andre? Um yes, I'm 28 years old with 20K in

savings and I wanted to know how to invest it.

All right. Give us a little bit more about your financial picture. What's your income?

Um about like 29,000

a year. Okay, and do you have any debt?

Uh no, sir. Okay. And is this your all of your savings, the 20K? Does this include like your emergency fund?

Um uh no, not really. I have uh maybe like a couple more stashed away in another uh bank account, but it's just like maybe like 2,000. So, you have about $22,000 liquid cash in these accounts. Okay.

Well, here's the deal. Once you're following this Ramsey plan and you're out of debt, the next step is to build a buffer between you and life called an emergency fund. And we recommend 3 to 6 months of expenses.

So, for you that might be, I don't know, 10, 15,000. Yeah, are you single, Andre?

Yes. Okay. Yeah, so you would probably be more on that 3-month side versus the 6-month.

Um so, yeah, I would kind of figure out for you what would be about 3 months of savings to keep you afloat if something happened to your income.

Um and making sure you have that and then, yeah, the next step would be investing. And so, I, you know, would look into things um you know, like a a retirement type vehicle with investing, so a Roth IRA. If you have an earned income, you can apply for a Roth IRA and that's a great option. You can invest up to $7,000 in that a year and that grows

tax-free. So, there's a lot of benefits to that that will count, which is great.

So, I would probably start there. Does your employer um have a 401k by chance as a benefit? Um they have a savings plan uh I think it

is. Okay. Yep, so I would look into that, too. Maybe um on Monday go and ask them about that and so, I would I would do the match for the 401k, but I would get that emergency fund in a high-yield savings account and then look into opening up a Roth IRA.

Thanks for the call, Andre. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to my co-host, Rachel Cruze, all the folks in the booth keeping the show afloat and you, America. Thanks for hanging out with us.

We'll be back before you know it.

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From Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Kamel, joined by Rachel Cruze, who is also my co-host on SmartMoney Happy Hour, which you can check out on the Ramsey Network.

We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Call us up. We'll try to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Justin kicks us off this hour in Santa Clarita, California.

What's going on, Justin?

Hi there, guys. How are you doing? We're doing well. How can we help?

So, my question is is kind of a detailed question. I'm curious

what you guys give for advice when

an amazing job is in a different location

than a happy life, I guess, would be the

um primary question there and it's I guess there you live in California. Is this job elsewhere?

The job is in Santa Clarita and the kind

of where I envision a happy life is about 3 hours north of there, so it's a

You envision a happy life or what what does that mean?

So, the location that's about 3 hours

away is where family is, where my significant other

is. Well, that's a difference maker.

Yeah. Buried the lead there. Okay, so what is this amazing job and why can it not exist in that area?

So, I'm a veterinarian and um about a year and a half ago now, I actually moved to where I currently am working

um in order to take this job because

where I was working before had

wasn't quite making even life ends meet, even as a veterinarian. So, you weren't getting paid enough.

Correct. And and even then I was and the

the work-life balance just wasn't there.

I was averaging like 100-hour work weeks. Good night.

Um now I've got I found an incredible job,

but I have found somebody that is

you know, that and we've been dating for about a year now back where my family is from and where I would like to eventually move to, but now I've in the quandary of probably not finding a similar job lifestyle that I have found. Have you looked at vets in that area?

I have and they um they can offer

similar, but it's not I guess it's kind of one of those things where it's hard to turn down what I am currently making and

the fact that I only have to work 4 days a week um for what I'm currently making in order to think they would negotiate if you said, "Hey, I'd love to apply. Here's kind of what I'm looking for"?

I think it would be reasonable, but I

um it just I don't of living lower 3 hours north?

It's actually considerably higher. Okay, so that'd be a tough life move financially. Yeah. Do you have any debt?

No, no debt. Awesome.

I mean, I'm moving if I'm you. I'm like there's I mean, you know, I think part of of having a happy life, I think a job is a big part of it, right? You spend on average 40 hours a week if you're working 40 hours a week.

They Maybe 100 if you're Justin.

Yeah, yeah, we don't want to go back to that, Justin. Um but the other the other elements of your life, your family, relationships, I mean, all of that um

you can't pay for, you know, like those are things that are they're they're priceless. And so, what is going to create a healthy overall

life and I think, I don't know, for me

it wouldn't be staying in a city 3 hours away from the people that I love um

unless she's willing to Will she move to you when you guys get married?

She would um but I think in it's the same situation where her her family and

her job is where I would potentially be moving back to.

Um so, it you know, as far as the logistics, it you know, it doesn't make

a whole lot of sense. Sure. Sure. Is there a world where you move out there, you're working, it's not the dream pay necessarily or dream hours, but you eventually could start your own practice?

That would be something that I and I'm actually starting to do a little bit.

I'm starting to create my own mobile practice in the

basically back home.

I would start exploring the options. I'd start calling up and doing some Zoom interviews or next time you're over in the area, meet with them and stop by and get a vibe for what the options are and then you can kind of figure out, but I think right now we're making a lot of assumptions about what life is going to be like either way and I like to have a little more facts.

Yeah. Well, I guess so well, so I guess if I had more facts and I don't know if like a a you know, salary numbers anything like that anything that that would be useful to kind of add into this

conversation goes.

What are you making now in this amazing job where you make crazy money and work four days a week?

Right now it's about 440,000

a year. That'll do it for four days a week? Yeah. And what would you make?

Probably around 200 is what I'm getting as far as my interviews go that I have and people I've talked to. What does she make a year?

Right now around 40.

Okay.

you guys together said hey after we're married why don't we live here for two or three four years see if we enjoy this area like it would be worth taking a shot for this amount of money. if you just stacked up hundreds of thousands a year and you were able to move and start your own practice That's right yeah yeah yeah and maybe you have a goal that will eventually want to be up there but because of the situation that you're you're in right now but again that that would be speeding up the relationship and I don't want to do that on basis of money either right so there's some factors that come into play and I also would not move for someone that I'm not married to either or engaged to at least now I know your family's there too which is great right that could be a pull.

Yeah or a certain dollar amount or a certain time frame or something but I think that it's significant enough to have that conversation would she would she move at all where you are?

She would and I guess that's maybe part of the maybe a part of the major question is with we are currently both renting and if we

were to move one way or the other like I guess when I don't know yet. you would yeah I would I mean you you can afford just to keep renting while you guys go through the engagement process and then once you're married buy a house together don't do that before you're married it's a disaster legally and all of that if you guys ever break up so I would use the season you're in to just stack up so much cash that whatever the next adventure is it's going to be a breeze even if it means a pay cut.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze our

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Today's question comes from Nathan in Kentucky. I am 14 years old and I was just wondering what is a good way to try and become to try and become at least a hundred dollar oh gosh a hundred million wait a hundred a hundred million million air by the time I'm I didn't know that was a term. I didn't I wasn't sure either I was just wondering because I discovered you guys on TikTok look at us George and I thought to myself that y'all had good information and I just wanted to know if it's possible thank you for your time.

Wow.

friend Nathan here Rachel it's not looking good. a hundred million Do you want to know what it takes Rachel? I would actually would love to know. Okay it takes get this you would have to invest from the age of 14 to the age of 30 and we're going to assume a 10% rate of return okay from 14 to 30 you'd have to invest every single month $220,000.

So there's the true answer Nathan but because now your hope has been stolen from us Okay do do do a do a millionaire do one million one million dollars. to a million okay well that's would be a that would be what you say to a 2000 a month at that point?

220 grand was for a hundred million so if we take it down to 20 grand that's 10 million that's pretty good.

I'm going to go five grand a month would get you to two. So two million. Just about 20 Yeah just about 2200 bucks a month.

all right. From 14 to 30. Okay all right. That's that's still a lot of money for a 14 year old to be socking away. At least got a bullseye we can look for okay so Nathan I would encourage you

to get beyond this like label of quote

unquote millionaire cuz I think a lot of people believe if I just had this amount of money Whether it's one million or a hundred million.

character question there of why do you want to have this millionaire status and to go ahead and bust the bubble that just because you reach that does not mean that life is suddenly going to be perfect for you. That's like that's the myth out there you know. Oh yeah. Well and If I can just do this and by 30 you know there's like kind of that whole the fire movement and it's like I work I'm not going to do anything with my life but save money.

happen by this age then my life is over and I've failed. yes. It's insane so I just I rebuke all of the get rich quick even if it's with decent intentions and you want to do it the less risky way there's just no good reason that any human needs to make hundreds of millions or even I need to have a million by this age. And the truth is Nathan if you follow the Ramsey baby steps you're going to get there by 30 your net worth will be a million dollars or more just by staying out of debt stacking up cash buying a home getting the house paid off investing 15% of your income over time compound growth is going to take over and do the heavy lifting for you.

So that's the not fun answer but I do think we need a new book from Dave called baby steps 100 millionaires. Looked it up it's called centimillionaires the term. Centimillionaire that's right. Oh so it is a thing.

Centimillionaires you have a hundred million or more.

I I wasn't your words not mine that's all I'm saying but thank you for the you know Nathan it was a good brain exercise even if it was an pretty wild

question It's great though good for you Nathan. that a 14 year old thinking that way he's going to be the the world changer out there cuz it's going to take being an entrepreneur to make that kind of money or even close.

Yeah. you're not going to make that as a W-2 employee likely but I wish you the best maybe Nathan will be calling in at 30 being like hey just so you guys know I have a hundred million. I'm a wait what was it called again centi yeah. You know Alex Hermosi you know that super beefcake dude we've had him on the show and he's he's a centimillionaire and he's an entrepreneur that's how he did it and he's about my age so call me a failure.

Many many do many do you're still working George. I'm here I'm doing it.

I'm kidding. All right let's go to the phones Einar

is in Oslo Norway we're going international. going overseas here we go.

What's going on Einar?

Hi guys it's it's such an honor to talk to both of you I'm great uh What time is it there?

Right now it's 24 past nine p.m. All right thanks for

staying up with us. Appreciate it thanks for the call. What's your question?

Thank you. Okay, my question for is how do my wife and I decide the amount and the amount of our personal line items in the budgets?

So, I'm a firm believer that equal isn't always necessarily fair

because for instance a haircut for her is much more expensive than mine. Unless

you're George Camel. It is the opposite in the Camel household.

But yes, it's a good point.

Yes, and you two are the perfect couple to answer this with woman and man as spender and saver. So Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the

amounts totally could be different and I'll be honest Winston and I well, I think we may budget the same amount but I spend mine every month. And Winston probably rarely blows through his fun money. Yeah, he may I don't even yeah. So,

we probably technically could budget less for him and he would be fine. I mean he wouldn't be spending it. in the budget if you split? I was going to say it is equal in the budget. I'm you're making me question why do we do that? Why do we not just correct it to what's reality in the Cruise household? I'm not sure. Cuz I don't think Winston would care if you lowered his amount. No, and if Winston wanted to buy something like yeah. That's how it goes.

Once a year Winston goes, I want to buy this and he just does it. Yeah, he spends all of his money on fun money. ooh, how much fun money do I have this month? I would I would agree. I do not think that it has to be equal but I would I and I say that cautiously hearing

people that are listening or watching us now that are not in your position cuz you're saying that yours would be lower than hers, correct?

Correct. Yes, so I think that is that is totally fine. But I don't want some crazy spouse out there listening and being like oh my gosh. Mine gets to be higher and you should lower yours.

Yeah, like like like yeah. my hurt on the show. They said the husband should be lower. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, I don't want to like create you know, conflict between married couples out there. But if the reality is is that you're naturally a saver and you're not going to spend as much as she spends, then yeah, I think it's reality should reflect the budget. So, I would for sure and not feel bad about that cuz you're right. I mean as technically speaking women I think do spend more.

George is the exception here. You got the right co-host in the other thing. I don't have any hobbies.

Exactly. And coffee.

And coffee but I don't need to go crazy there. more than Do you spend more than Whitney though a month? I wouldn't say in fun money cuz I don't again I don't have fun. I went to a movie last night and that was like, wow, I'm really living.

That's it. So, I and her can you give us a number here? Like I don't know what's the what's the currency in Norway? Is it a kroner? krone? Yes, correct. But to keep it simple, we can

just divide the total amount in Norwegian kroner to by 10 and we got the

Got it. the dollar amount. Okay. Okay.

We bring in around 6,000 a month and for

for the next month we set up actually equal so 200 each.

But last month we set up five

450 for her and 250. And it worked out.

Yeah, sure it worked out but she feels kind of guilty.

See, that's something we can deal with outside of this but it has nothing to do with the budget. It's she just she feels like it should be more equal and she feels bad spending but the budget is permission to spend. It is and it should be a reflection of reality and the reality is her you know, what she spends per month is going to be more than yours and and that's that's totally okay regardless of who brings in the money.

Put it all together. You say what is our reality of our life and that's how we're going to budget.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruze. The number to call is 888-825-5225.

Diana's up next in San Jose. Diana, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hi yes, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help today?

So, I have a question. So, I'm 28. I

have no debt and I've been saving for a house for about 5 years and I'm not

seeing no results and I just wanted to ask what else could I be doing so I can afford a home in San Jose?

Where are you seeing a lack of progress?

Is it in the savings account or is it what the amount of money will do for the housing market?

It's the housing market. So, I have a full-time job and I make about 100k a year. Cool. And I have about 100k saved in cash.

But it seems too little to buy a house here in San Jose

and the reason I would like to stay here is because all my family up here. Mhm.

Yeah, I mean it is so difficult Diana because I mean you are in what the top three highest real estate markets? I mean the Bay Area. It's like that Miami, Manhattan. I mean it it is the most expensive real estate

market. I mean it is. So, it's going to take you on average twice as long as you

know, someone living in Nebraska and buying a house. So, even though you make 100 grand which is great, it's not crazy money for out there even. I mean your your cost of living is going to is high and the market is. I think it's one of those things Diana that it's I'm it is frustrating and I think you know, you're going to have to map out

and just say okay, I'm in this for the long game and it may be you know, that I'm 32 when I own a home and not 29 or 30, right? Like you like bumping it out multiple years is probably what's going to have to happen and I'm assuming you're you're looking at like a reasonable situation for yourself

cuz are you single?

I well, I have a significant other but we're not married and I don't want to buy a house together right now. Maybe in the future. For sure. So, I think a a way to get into the market if you can is even a a condo or a town home.

It may not be a single family home just to get yourself in a position to even own something in that area, right? It may not be a single family home right now. need to be further out of the area.

Yes, so my work is in San Jose and my commute is about 15 minutes. 15 minutes.

Okay. So, let's say you were going to do a half hour commute. Would housing be cheaper out there?

Yes, maybe in Gilroy or Morgan Hill, I'm guessing but it's getting more expensive cuz people are moving out of San Jose

to afford a home. They've got the same idea as you.

They're going, well, this is where I can afford and therefore supply and demand.

So, here's what I would do Diana. I would sit down and go what am I what are my non-negotiables? What must be true and what can I compromise on? And that might be hey, I'm willing to get a fixer-upper but I'm going to live in the part of area I want to live in or it's going to be it's going to be brand new cuz that's what I want but it's going to be further out.

Or it's going to be at the town home instead of the single family. So, I think we need to start going, listen, the reality is it's an insane area to live in.

home in San Jose by for a single woman.

You know what I mean? And that might change one day as you get married and your spouse makes 100 grand and now we're making 200 grand or more. Well, now we can upgrade over time. So, it doesn't have to be a forever decision but I also don't want you sitting on the sidelines for another 5 years.

Okay.

Is that helpful?

Yes. Okay. I wish we were Thanks for the call. We could have like a secret life hack good news. I mean I'm telling you California real estate y'all. You get your Southern California, you get your Bay Area. It's just I mean it is so expensive. I mean in other areas are expensive too, right? I mean all of housing is up. We know that but there are just the there's these pockets around the country that it's like I mean it is what it is, right?

home but if you decided to move to you know, Beverly Hills or wherever and you put that same money you go, oh, we need to get like a we can't fit the kids. You know what I mean? So, there's just a reality to it that's not fun to deal with and so if you do decide I'm going to work in this area, we also have to figure out how do we get our income up in order to go with the ultra high cost of living. We kind of need an ultra high income. Right.

to make this work long term. That's right and it's it's the math which is not always fun. Math doesn't have emotion. We do or I do. George George has some, George has some emotion.

math. I wish he had more I know, but it's it's hard. It's hard. Rachel's the empathetic friend. sucks. I mean, like Yeah. Man.

It's hard. All right. Well, let's move on and hopefully have more some some good news. Barbara is in Atlanta. What's going on, Barbara?

Hi. I don't know if I have good news or not, but I'm really happy to be here. Dang it. Barbara, we were we were hoping, but hey, it's okay. the good news. We're happy to talk about that. you called. Aw, thank you. So, we have we're getting close to retirement. I'm 63, my husband's 66. We have $700,000 in an

investment account. Whoa. Nice. also have $40,000 in consumer debt.

So, I'm really tempted to take some of that money and pay it off.

And but he's starting to draw Social Security next month and it'll be about 3,500 a month. So, I'm wondering if we should use that to pay it off or if we should invest that and take out a lump sum and pay off our debt. We also have a little mortgage.

Okay, what what's the 700 invested in?

Um it's with one of your SmartVestor Pros. It's he's got it in a in a mutual fund account. Is it within like a Roth IRA or a 401k

or is it just a standard just growth mutual fund? It's a No, it's a 401k and we have a smaller Roth. Okay. But that is essentially that's your retirement nest egg is the 700k.

That's exactly right. Okay. So, that plus whatever we get in Social Security, that's the retirement plan. So, we need to make sure that we can live off of all of that.

Yes. Okay. And we figured out we can.

Okay. Have you talked to your SmartVestor Pro about the best approach sort of mathematically, strategically for where to pull this money from, whether it's from future income versus your investment account?

We talked about the lump sum and he says he thinks that's a pretty good idea, but he hasn't really gone any further than that. And I'm starting to think that maybe we have some options.

You definitely have options. I mean, I love the idea of not touching the nest egg. That That would be my number one goal for you guys is to leave the nest egg to grow because we know on average it's going to double about every 7 years. So, 7 years from now, if you don't touch it, you got 1.4 million.

Well, that's a very different retirement. And so, I don't want you to decimate the nest egg before we even get to retirement. And so, if you can use the 3,500 and you continue working, you guys are on a budget guys still working?

Yes. Okay. How much are will work another year and I'll I'll work probably 2 more years. Okay. Well, how much are you guys making?

I Well, we bring home $8,000 a month.

That's our take home. Okay.

Um How little of that can you live off of? What do you need to get by?

Well, we break even each month because we've got that consumer debt. And so, You're spending eight grand a month right now? Yes, and we need an emergency fund.

That's our whole problem cuz we're spending money that we're putting money on credit cards for like tires and Yeah.

our dogs, you know, need surgery and things like that. So, we need to get an emergency fund going, too. I'm really dedicated to working these baby steps, but I feel like it's kind of late in life and I don't really know if everything applies the same way.

Totally. Yeah, it and it does. And what I would be, you know, thinking about, Barbara, is yeah, could you pull money?

You have 700 grand. So, could you pull it and pay off this 40 grand and be fine? Yes, you could. Totally could.

Um but the truth is is the way you guys are living, your habits aren't changing by doing that. And by living paycheck to paycheck without savings is what I worry about you guys going into retirement because with those habits, that magnifies the more money you have. And so, I would rather your habits change here in the next year or two as you guys enter retirement more than anything. So, I think it would be just a good practice.

And like you said, you know, you're in your 60s and you're like, is it too late?

for, you know, 40 years or, you know, however long you've been working and and living. So, um I think it's going to it can be a harder change for you guys, but I think it's I think it's a needed one. And I think taking that eight grand and saying, what can we do to to not just

live off of that paycheck to paycheck, but what can we do to cut expenses, get margin, pay off this 40, get an emergency fund in place, do it all with your income here in the next 2 years.

Um that would be a great challenge for you all cuz then your habits have changed, you've created a new way of functioning with money, and then you get to go into retirement with freaking 700 grand, which is amazing. Yeah, that would be my goal. Not We're not retiring till we're out of debt with an emergency fund. And that means we're going to work until we have to. And that should put some fuel to this fire. Thank you for the call, Barbara. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel joined by Rachel Cruze.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

If you want to know the best way to manage your money, there's no get-rich-quick life hacks here. It is by doing a budget. It's by looking at the reality of what you make and what you're spending and then trying to stick to it.

And that's what we've done with our EveryDollar app. It's completely free.

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Wes is in Philadelphia. What's going on, Wes? How can we help?

Hi, George. Hi, Rachel.

So, I have a question. I am on baby step

two and I am So, my wife and I are on baby

step two.

We purchased some property on a tax sale

back in 2020.

And then um our plan was to, cuz it was

only a couple miles from our house, to eventually build a house cash and rent that out. Um but change plans have changed. We moved up north to Pennsylvania for my job.

And I am now looking at selling that property and um while we're on baby step two, um we are looking at uh selling that property to be able to either A, uh pay

down on our debt and or B, um help my wife start a business to be able

to increase our income and then pay down on the debt faster.

Uh how much are you going to get from the sale of the property?

So, retail um appraised value is about $21,000.

It's not much land.

Um but if I were to sell it to an investor, it would sell much quicker and I would probably get between 10 and 15.

And how much debt do you have?

So, currently consumer debt, we have 43,000.

Um various. Uh some credit card.

Some medical. Um I have a little bit left on my truck along with student loans.

And how much you guys already How much you guys make a year? 49,000. Nice. Well done.

Uh how much do you guys make?

Um I make 140 with my salary. Um

but I have the opportunity with bonuses

and things to make up to about 180.

Okay. How much does your wife make?

She's stay-at-home with our two boys.

Okay. What kind of business is it that she's wanting to start?

Well, um so, something we've talked about um is uh for a family business that she would kind of manage is um

a uh monthly family type of uh activity type of thing where we would um

put together a box of a kit.

So one of the ideas would be maybe for like

a spring or summertime activity. There'd be a small easel in there with a poster board and some water balloons and some water-based paint and you fill up the water balloons with the paint, throw it out there, you have an afternoon of fun and you have some artwork to put in the living room. How many of these kits has she sold so far?

Um none yet. We're just in the thought process. We have not even listed the property yet. So I'm just trying to look at the Okay.

Um what options type of thing Yeah. Um

you would go down. Um So I would put this towards the debt and

I would do that because um the business model, you know, the the the business plan it is not, you know, it's it it hasn't even, you know, been happening. Like I it'd be different if you're like, "Oh my gosh, she has all this business. She's doing this thing." And golly, we're making this and if we just put a little bit in there, she could make 4x that. Like if there was actually a proven um sustainable business, I may could talk about something different.

Um but as of right now, yeah, because it's just a a complete startup whiteboard, I would definitely get you guys in a position where you're debt-free. Um so that 10 grand I would definitely take to that 43, make it 33 and uh start working your way

down and then I would get an emergency fund in place before you start that business. And then once you guys are debt-free with an emergency fund, then she can start that and I would start it very slowly.

Uh move at the speed of cash and slowly

work her way up because I think sometimes, you know, we talk to people on the show and they they have a dream and they want to go get a business loan for 60 grand to start something that's not proven out and they get themselves in a mess. So just for future future uh advice, you didn't ask for that, but I'll give that to you for free. No, I I appreciate that, Rachel. Um and

that's the that's the other other thing is uh with us looking at selling this

little piece of land, uh we would have that cash and we were just trying to figure out which would be the better option. I would definitely put it towards the debt. The secret sauce here is your amazing income. It's not the land, it's not the business opportunity. It's I make 140 to 180 grand. Let's take control of that thing. Cuz if you can start throwing 6 grand a month at the debt, this thing's gone soon.

Yes. And so I think we've been hanging on to it too long.

Yeah, well, we've been working on it for a little bit less than a year now. And they paid off 49, yeah. And how much in a year? So you'll do the next half in what, nine 10 months?

Uh if we are unable to sell the property for whatever reason, you know, the storm Helene that went through, I'm not sure Mhm. if we'll be able to sell it. Yeah.

Um but um if we're able to sell it, then

we'll have it paid off before springtime, but uh if not, then it'll probably be summer to maybe early fall next year. That's great. Cool. Good for you guys, Wes. Well done.

That's a lot That's a lot of hard work. And I And I love the business idea. You know, they have some of those subscription boxes and I've gotten them as a gift. One of our kids got one as a for a birthday gift.

Yeah, so every month they got this like activity, you know, in the mail. It's exactly what you're talking about, Wes. And it's great and it's great. So I think, yeah, there's some fun outlets and creativity when you see a need out there to be able to, yeah, start a business.

I love it. One day we'll she'll call back and say, "I have 100,000 for my side business. What do I do with it?" Yeah, that's right. Like, "Oh my gosh, it blew up." Or 500 grand and my husband quit his job.

That's my favorite. All right, Ben is in Minnesota.

Hi George. Hi Rachel. Uh I guess I just

have a question about my company-funded annuity plan.

Okay. and whether I should be investing alongside that.

Uh baby right now I'm technically in baby step three. I'm just looking ahead.

Okay. But uh What are the options for retirement through your company?

Well, they it's a company-funded annuity plan. So whatever I make a month, they'll put in 25% of what I make.

Regardless of if you put in anything? So you put in zero dollars, they're still putting in 25% of your income?

Yes. That's awesome. And then yeah, it's it's a national electric annuity plan, so it's like a lot of linemen have it. Yeah. And that's the only retirement There's no like 401k, so you're on your own. We have We have a 401k, too, and right now I'm I've always just put in 5%, which is kind of the minimum.

Okay. So I've just been doing that and just been kind of living that way.

But I'm just wondering if I should be putting money into a Roth, too?

Yeah, so once you have your baby step three completed, so you have your fully funded emergency fund done, then yeah, I would look to say, you know, cuz the 401k, what's the match there? Is it 5% and that's what you're matching to?

No, they don't do a match. Basically their big thing is that ba- the big thing is the annuity plan for them.

Okay. Okay, I got you. And there's no Roth option? I I would then I would keep my 15% in retirement. I would not do Let it Let them do the annuity and all of that. I would not put my own money in it. No, they they do it. Okay, great. That's awesome.

Yeah, so I would go to the Roth first, max it out, uh and then go to the 401k

after that.

Okay. Uh the reason I'm really asking is that is we're going to buy my wife's grandparents' house one of these days.

They're in their 90s.

So I'm kind of was thinking of

flip-flopping uh baby step four and what is it? Four and five? Well, there's three B where you start saving up the down payment and you get to choose how much you invest during that process. But thanks for the call, man. Hey, if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, the show's about to end, so head on over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show in a distraction-free experience. You can go download that in the app store or click the link in the show notes. We'll see you over there.

Hey, what are you still doing here? You know, the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app, right? So you got to jump over there to continue watching. You can download it for free.

Just go to your app store, type in Ramsey Network. It's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you. So if you're watching on the app, you're in luck. But if you're watching anywhere else, this show is over for you. So jump onto the app and let the fun continue. All right. Go on now. Don't make it weird.

Okay, I I I got nowhere to go, so you need to go.

Okay. Bye-bye now.

All right, this is it's getting weird over there, guys. What do we do?

---

## 219. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 30, 2024)


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| **Video ID** | `6H0Ju0dV14U` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H0Ju0dV14U) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:16:38 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today what up what up this is the ramsy

show I'm John deloney joined by the

great George camel live from Nashville

Tennessee we are taking your calls on your money Building Wealth doing work

that you love and creating and

sustaining and hanging on to great

relationships so glad that you're with us today we're taking live calls 8825

5225 it's 8825 5225 we have a packed

house out here in the audience good to see everybody coming to visit us here in

uh actually we're in Franklin just north of Nashville but we are glad you are

with us as well let's go out to Milwaukee no no no no let's go out to

Dallas detone and talk to Cyrus hey

Cyrus what's up man hello how you doing doing

outstanding my man what's

up um so yes um I am 26 um I have

$116,000 worth of debt and I am

wondering if I should file for chapter 7

uh bankruptcy why'd you jump to that conclusion what makes you think you can't crawl out of

this well um I've been working um a lot

two jobs um constantly um not really

able to get anywhere um recently about a year ago I caught a

case um for a felony charge and um I am

still going on actively with that case

trying to get probation um so it's been very difficult

for me to find another job now that my

background check is shown a felony

charge um so what are you doing now for

work yeah so I'm working on Amazon um

I'm making uh about $4,100 a month at a minimum um

I can potentially make more depending on

um if they allow me to get overtime or

work um a six day I'm working five days

there as of right now okay um last year

I made last year I made 60,000 off of it

I'm off of Amazon loan um but I'm

just like drowning right now with with

payments and um I I did um

I rounded up all my minimum payments for

all my loans and and everything and U my

minimum is $5,300 whoa a month and that's just on

minimum payments That's not including

food or um or rent or anything else how

have you made it so far what's getting you through every month if you're going

underwater um so how did I make it so

far well I've been doing um are you going further into Deb every month no no

so I I'm tapped out I I can't even get the debt consolidation loan my credit is

shot what kind of debt is what is this

debt man can you break down the

160 yeah so I have um a a vehicle that's

um 51,000 I would left on it um

51,000 yeah it's a Tesla Model y

performance oh not a Tesla was it worth

yeah 55,000 how much

35,000 okay what else um I have nine

credit cards that um a total of $55,000

worth the debt on

that okay and then um and then I have

the rest of my loans which is

90 98,000 which is three um personal

loans and then my other loan your other

what my auto loan auto loan you have

another auto loan no no no it's it's the

test loan okay so you got 51k on the car

nine credit cards that are 55k and then

the other what is that another 50 or 60

is in personal

loans um no so total with the car it's

98 so it would be another like 40 in

personal okay what where did all this

money go what have you been spending

on so

we're talking 100K in just

spending yeah to make a long story short

um I I as I mentioned I had a

three-year-old daughter I I got in I was

in a relationship with this woman um basically she was unfaithful to

me we broke up um ever since then I've

been trying to honestly repair our

relationship for our child and also

because you know it's a woman that I

love and care about well long story

short it's been years of non-stop um

taking on her Debs um you know paying

you know for food and basically

basically living like two households the

whole time um and yeah basically just so

she's been scamming you for this I mean she's been just leeching off you all this time huh yes yes and now you know

recently I got you know we

you know uh I mooved we basically broke

up again and I'm left with all this and

I just she doesn't want to make it work

and I've been Contin trying to make it work for my child and it I just this is

where I'm at now making making it work

for your child is different than digging $150

$160,000 hole trying to impress a

girl yeah those are two different things

and you have lied yourself for the last two or 3 years saying I'm quote unquote doing this for the baby but you've been

running around like a like with your peacock feathers out trying to trying to

woo this woman and man she's been just

happy to take your money happy to take all your your stuff but it was it wasn't

about that girl and now again I think you love your daughter I think you're I think you're working as hard as you can but man you got to let the fantasy of this woman go it's it's burying you

what's this felony charge

about so it was um

she had a guy in my apartment for the second time um all right Let's do let's

let's do this let's stop there I don't want I don't want you to say something that's going to get S painted on the air let's just roll back to the money part is that cool yeah are you living alone

right now so I I was going back between my

parents and her um I was in my car for a

month um last month I was in for a whole

month um just because I couldn't go back

to either one um so now I am back with

my parents they you know they stopped

drinking supposedly so um I'm there for

for now and and this is another reason why I was thinking about bankruptcy just because I have a case going on I'm

unstable household you know I can't rely

on nobody right now I'm a worker I I

like you know two years ago I made you

know 93,000 working doubles uh when I

mean I've been working non-stop two jobs

for the last three years but bro if you if you if you make 98 three years in a row you're out no no not for Reon no no

no no I'm telling you like I want you to

hear George and I say we believe in you if you make 90 grand for three years in a row just straight hustling uhuh you'll be out you'll be

free yeah listen to me you'll be free if

you file bankruptcy you're putting a chain around

your neck and you're jumping into a

lake yeah the the problem I have is I've

been applying for jobs in my record with

the felony charge I got it I got it it's

very the de the deck is is firmly

stacked against you until you get that cleared 100% yeah but I have never one time um

I've I mean I've never

uh the guy who mows my lawn I don't know

if he's got to F any charge he just does a great job right I mean there's work to be had it's not traditional work and it's not fun work and it is hard grinding hot cold work but there's work what do you think George yeah there's no shortcuts here we got to get your income up app I would not file bankruptcy

you're you can get out of this but it's going to take 3 years of hustle throwing

50 Grand at the debt and that means getting that income up and man you're going to have to get creative you might have to get a roommate or two keep Ling with the parents do what you got to do but do not throw that chain around you

just yet

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music] I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah how in the middle

of all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-upping it because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much CU Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time

to put the stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is

one thing oh to do to say I love love you to your family so we've used Xander

for all of our family's needs for

insurance for many years including of

course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800 356 4282 that's 800 356

4282 or go to zander.com

[Music]

[Music]

all right we are back I'm John delone

joined by George camel 8825 5225 taking

your calls on money and work and life

your mental and emotional health whatever you got going on I've got this

um qz.com looks like an internet article

but here's what it says says um talking

about money makes people more

uncomfortable than talking about politics and religion says the survey

here um that's actually been George

that's been one of my uh personal

experiences sitting with hurting people man um I remember back to I've talked

about this on the show I remember back to my practicum days when I was seeing clients me people talk about every

everything um their past their future

like like really hard stuff Partners

they've had like everything did not want

to talk about debt money it it just was

too sensitive of a topic I think it is it too personal is there too much shame and baggage connected to that versus politics and religion there's just like a tribe you're sort of connected to yeah that's the only thing I've I've been able to distill down and again I'm just speculating here is one yeah politics

religion um questions about sex intimacy

all those are they're tribal right you

can get on the internet and find a gang

right when it comes to your money when

you distill all the way down there's that one question what are you worth and

there's just nowhere to hide it's just you and what what how much money have

you earned what vacations have you gone on or not gone on like how much debt do you have how much how much do you owe it just all comes and I think we put so much pressure on that one number and here's what I hate about it um I mean

there's an old saying in in among

counselors and therapists Secrets will kill you right and so if you are out

there talking about stuff and trying to get well and get healthy but you can't

you feel so much shame around how much money you owe or I don't even know how the stuff works um um and I wish you

know what it comes comes to the mechanics of it I wish people would

believe me when I tell people I co-host

this show and I text you on Saturdays

asking you about a particular fund or I

you know text or talk to Dave about this a particular question we're always asking each other stuff um but I think

there's an illusion that if you have a show if you're on the internet you know everything about everything and so I feel embarrassed it's not going to ask anybody anything people just sit in it and they just keep making the same choices over and over and they look up like the last caller 160 Grand in the hole right it's a it's a it's a zoo man

it's a zoo is wild yeah I mean that's on the Ramsey Show we're trying to make talking about money normal in a good way

not you know there's things that you shouldn't share at Thanksgiving dinner it says here only 14% said money is a

normal Topic at holiday Gatherings as friends and family don't go home I think

it should be lower than that yeah don't go home and be like all right we're going to go on the table we're going to pass the roles uh Aunt Janet and then we're going to see uh everybody tell everybody what they make who has the most debt yeah who who made the most money this year let's go Dave Rams he's not sitting around the Thanksgiving table talking about hey guys what's your favorite mutual fund lately let's talk

uh let's talk returns yeah and I guess

he could go around the table and ask everybody what they makes but all his all all his kids work for him so he kind of knows right he knows he knows but this is the survey said 62% of people

were highly uncomfortable sharing their financial details with friends and family 38% said they're comfortable

sharing Bank information with family members and close friends that should be 0% Bank information it's a very I mean

that's private it's like saying well I don't want to share my social security number I'm uncomfortable talking about

yeah that's a little personal but I do think we should talk about money goals

money challenges we don't have to get into specifics but you know we talk

about this with relationships it's good to talk about money values early on you

don't need to get into here's how much debt I have here's how much I make on the first date but it's important to see hey how you what was money like for you growing up and I also think this so

George I do think I can

see money is such a sensitive topic that

I can imagine going home and saying hey

had a great year and you got one family

member that's like oh oh did we now o o

George is so rich right or that's

immediately followed by you know a

cousin be like hey man uh I need a I

need 40 bucks can I right so I get it

but that when everybody's sitting on a table or everyone sitting on a friend group is holding on to something like

hey I'm scared yeah right or like I

don't know how I'm going to make my payments or he I had a really good year

can I celebrate with somebody I'll tell you this the first year um on your past

change of future with number one it was a good year I never anything like it I'm a cops kid right my dad was a cop and a minister my wife was raised by school teachers it was a new year for us I

called one friend I like I just need to tell somebody and it was a cool little

moment he's a banker and so I could never catch him but he was like that's

like but it was a cool moment to celebrate so you've got to have people able you talk about things you're scared about talk about things that you're that you can celebrate together absolutely well I imagine there's a spectrum from if you're broke and you talk about money there's a lot of Shame and if you're super well off and you're talk about money there's a lot of guilt and so is

there like this Middle Ground of everyone else is like hey we'll talk about it I don't care yeah so I think for me it comes back to you've got to find some people you got to find some

people and it doesn't have to be your family um doesn't have to be your immediate group of friends but you need to find some people people that you can have conversations about politics about

your faith about this one says 71% of

people are more comfortable commenting on their weight 81% said they're

comfortable discussing their health um

78% said that openly discuss their political opinions affiliation 81% they

would said they would openly discuss their religious views and we ain't talking about money right so um we got

to have places where we can just fully let our hair down and say I'm not all right or can we just cheer for a second

um and there's the right way to do it I personally as much as I talk about money for a work I don't do it unsolicited I

don't just like hang out with friends like hey man let's talk about your financial goals where are we at I only talk about money when I'm asked about it or when people are openly sharing and they're looking for an opinion there you go and I think that's the important part no one's looking for opinion even if you're like the ramay you know Die Hard fan it's not the time to just like Ram

it down their throat and be like you better follow the Ramy plan or else

nobody's excited by that yeah or meeting

someone in the grocery store being like guess what I'm a millionaire and they're like yeah dude I can't I'm I I can't

afford eggs right so there's a balance to it but I do love when someone passes me in Costco and they don't even say hi

they just go Bay cash for that and they

just keep walking and it's just like an unspoken language we have together so

great good on you I was at a jeweler and the girl there oh that was a flex that's that was a good I was getting a watch repair John okay and she immediately it

was like I realized I was like a priest it was a confessional she saw me and she went I have a car loan but it's not that much it's the only that I have there's $22,000 left I'm working all hard to pay

I was like waa hey release the guilt

alas come on well so she's working on it

I gave her a book and she's on the path and so now she reports back anytime I see her it's great well money

confessional I won't even tell you some of the strange conversations I've had waiting in airport lines and in bathrooms and I can't I mean I talk

about money you're talking about mental health relationships intimacy the things

people probably share with you unsolicited I I I will I can't possibly be top

sitting at an airport I'm pretty sure not in a bathroom please tell me that happen a few times in the bathroom oh like at a stall I thought there was an unspoken like guy rule bro you just stare at the tile right ahead of you we all know that you stare at the tile but

I've had two different times someone looks over and they're like oh hey you're on that show and I'm like just look at the tile man and they're like

hey you know so me and my wife and it's like not a good time and they're like they're always gra like oh you're right you're right you're right and I understand people get excited but um I

have had one in the in the in a airport

in DFW Airport I think it was Dallas Love Field when a couple came up and

just started talking about their sex life it was just live therapy I looked at I was like it's it's not just not a great time like I'm super like it means

the world to me all listen to the show but kind of weird and you could see it

as they're talking yeah we just made

this exchange super weird we're just

going to go to waterburger and call it guys good to see good to see you guys so lesson learned here there there's a context in a place an environment a

group that it's wise to talk about this

stuff and then other times there's good reason not to talk about it I will say you have to find people that you can talk about hard things with period I think that's why Financial Peace University has been so powerful over the last 30 years it's called people into a room you show up and you go oh I'm not the only knucklehead that made mistakes oh okay we're all in this thing together oh we're not going to just sit here and

ridicule each other's mistakes we're going to just focus on getting better wonderful and you get to weep together

and every every week you walk in and you

see a a a an increasingly familiar group

of people that's all doing hard stuff together and you'll celebrate together

and I actually I think that's a an

unspoken um curse on our our current

generation is everybody talks about

their problems like what happened who

said this can you believe this oh my gosh so and so's running for president

what no none of us or very few of us

have people they can call and just be like hey can I just say something awesome happened today my marriage is amazing my kid's doing great can I just say that out loud and we cheer each other on right so find people that you

could tell the hard stuff to but also find people you could tell the great stuff to especially about your money8

825 5225 this is the Ramy show we'll be

right [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Ramsey hey guess what we just launched a

brand new tour me John deloney and my

buddy Dave Ramsey are hitting the road

coming to a city near you for the money

and relationships tour it's six cities

it's the radest theaters in the nation

and we're putting a new Twist on it every stop is going to be an interactive night where you as the audience are going to vote on what we talk about so

if you're if you see the list of things we're going to put some topics up and youall get to pick from 20 or 30 I don't know how many they going to be up there and if just going to be like all right

here we go let's go so that way we don't

come to you and play the songs that we want to play we're going to come and we're going to play the songs that you guys want to hear we're be talking about money and relationships and so much more every night is going to be different I promise you you're going to laugh I promise you if we do our jobs you're going to leave with some action items to go change your life and um probably be a

a shed a tier or two as well we're going

to have a blast we're kicking off in Louisville on April 21st 2025 and then

hitting up Durham Atlanta Phoenix Fort

Worth and Kansas City Early Bird pricing

is happening right now get your tickets

to the money relationships tour at Ramy

solutions.com tour Ramy solutions.com tour and if

you're checking this out on YouTube or podcast it's in the show notes all right

let's go out to Milwaukee and talk to

Alex what up Alex how we doing hey how

you doing do all right brother what's

up I was calling in because I just um I

do pretty well I I do really I do pretty

well compared to everybody else and I just feel like I'm stuck like ambitious

guy what is pretty well compared to everybody else um I make probably close

to $400,000 a year okay and uh that put

you in the top top 1% of any human who's

ever existed in human

history yeah I I I guess I'm just like

an ambitious person and I kind of feel stuck like I I don't know what to do if I continue to grow um

I I've done a couple different things and they didn't pan out very well and I failed at them done a couple other things that well what do you do for

learn so um my main income is I own a

restaurant and then my other couple

things I do I also own a lube and then I

also do real estate a what a real estate no the one

before that a Lube a quick lube oh okay

now I didn't know the industry lingo

okay that helps me what's a quick Lo

yeah quick luu go yep yeah I thought you

were talking about those sleds that they have at the the Bob sledding thing I

thought you were like talking about you're like French and you owned a the Lou Art Museum oh yeah all right so you

okay sweet so successful entrepreneur

yeah which one of these is your main is your main main bread winner yes the

rusher okay and what's your question my

my question is how do I continue to grow

I've experienced a couple of failures in the last couple of years with opening new businesses and it didn't D well I don't really understand like Ross Ras and all that kind of stuff

like my concept has always been invest

in stuff and grow like are you talking

about you want to invest in retirement are we talking about growing your income

yeah in the medical community unchecked growth is called cancer so if you just

wake up every day like I got to grow I got to grow like you're going to clod

what what what are you trying to aim what are you aiming for what are you trying to get to I just um I want to grow as a

business person I want to be able to create generational wealth and like I know some people might feel like I've already done that but like I just feel like I still have so much more to accomplish yeah I know but it sounds like you're running from something what are you running from because listen Dave

Ramy is worth a a God awful amount of

money and he is obsessed

pathologically with helping hurting

people and money is just the byproduct of this

Obsession to help people be

free you have an obsession right now

with I got to get more and I got to get more and I got to get more and usually

for for guys like you that comes at the expense of their families of their

romantic partners of their kids of their health of

everything and and that's true I um me

and my wife had some problems a couple

years ago and I realigned my priorities with my family and that's gotten a lot

better and we where everything got fixed and we're a lot happy and we're bro you

know how I know everything didn't get fixed because I've been married for 20-some years it isn't just it's not

like a car engine it's something you continue to grow together with what what

what's your ultimate question what are you running from what are you scared

of no I think I just what is driving the

insatiable need for

growth it sounds like you watched a Grant Cardone video and now you're just like bro I got a 10x I got a 10x like

like what is all what's behind this you

$400,000 a year

exhale I uh I don't know if it's

competition and I'm not I'm not envy as anybody but I look at my peers and I

feel like I should be doing better that's the definition of envy that's what it is like I what I mean is like I'm not what I'm trying to say is like I don't I'm not mad at what they have I just like I'm happy for them and I'd like to learn I'd like to learn I like to hear people talk that do better than me I want to learn it's not that I wish

I'm B I want like I I I want it like oh

I'm angry at him it's nothing I thought it's just my it's like I'm I'm competitive that way in this regards all right here's your homework you ready for your homework you're not gonna like it yeah promise me say I promise I'll do whatever you tell me I promise I'll do

what you tell me all right you just said

that in front of millions of people if you lie you'll probably get struck by lightning probably not but I like it's just fun to say that all right number one you cannot get on Tik Tok or

Instagram for 30 days I don't do those anyway I'm just

telling you number one no social media for for 30 days number two you have to

go for a walk with your wife in the morning or in the evening with no phones

no devices for at least 30 minutes every

day for for 30 days number two how many

kids you got number three how many kids

you got I got four you have four kids

how how old I got twins that are four

and then a five and a sixy old okay when

I ask you what you're running from one

of the most common questions I hear or common answers I get from high performing um dads and say high

performing High earner dads is that they

look at the chaos at home and they don't

know what to do they don't know how to be a dad of

four kids they don't know how to be a husband of a wife with four kids they it's just chaos and they think in their

heads the greatest gift I could give my family is to not be here and instead go

make money and if you are making money to

help people if you are making money to

change a generational situation go get

it if you're hiding from your family

stop so I want you to plan something

with each one of those

kids and it could be 5 minutes or 10

minutes I want you to practice plugging in at your home do bed times not for 30

days not for the rest of your life I'm not telling you to if anyone makes 400 Grand you need to stop what you're doing that's not what I'm saying at all but if you had a if you had a desire

in your heart to provide good oil change

services for people to provide excellent

Food for People people I would tell you George will walk you through how to do all that but I don't hear that I hear

you running dude and running and running

and those four kids at some point are going to start asking what was so amazing about that restaurant that he gave it up gave us up for that

thing do you get what I'm saying yeah I

just want you to Exhale for a second and dude I want you to make $5 million a year it's not it's not about the money

it's about George and I can just hearing your voice man you're not comfortable in your own skin

you're doing a pretty amazing job here's

the best question to ask yourself Alex because I've I've talked and hung out with all these people who are very successful young guys making crazy money

net worth of $20 million and the

question I think is so powerful for you to ask is this two questions or three

three uh words and then what I make

500,000 and then what I make a million

and then what then I start five more businesses and then what you see where that's getting to

there's no real purpose behind it other than well because more is better it's

like a toddler mentality right yeah at some point we have to

learn also how to be content and how to

have peace otherwise it's going to

destroy you against that 400 Grand how much do

you owe how much money do you owe um I go a substantial amount but it

doesn't come out of like my personal earnings because my real estate pays for

it all like I buy property I always put 20% down how leveraged are

you um so I probably like all in all

like with everything my personal and you

know financial and work stuff I'm probably like 1.1 okay here's what

you're doing you're sitting on a time bomb brother you owe $1.1

million and I know the Tik Tok Bros and

the Instagram Bros like bro you got to leverage this to borrow this the bank's going to Arbitrage you're sitting on a

bomb and you know who knows it your nervous system your nervous system got to slow

down brother hang on the line I'm going to send you Financial University on us I want you to watch it control all delete

get some peace in your life we'll be right [Music]

back hey guys it's Rachel Cruz just

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[Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm John

deloney joined by George camel Ramy show

question of the day is brought to you by why refi hey we've all made money

mistakes if you have defaulted private

student loans we're not judging you

George might be judging you but I'm not judging you wow but we are saying you

can do something about it contact why

refi y refi was created for people in

your exact situation go to Y rei.com

Ramsey that's the letter

yy.com Ramy to check it out may not be

available in all states today's question

comes from Dean in Washington together

my wife and I earned around 300,000 a

year we both enjoy buying and building Legos together with and with our sons we

have a large Lego collection which I've been working on since I was a little kid we're in baby steps four five and six how much money is too much money to spend on Hobbies like Legos we've been

spending 400 to 800 bucks a month for

the last six or so months it's been a blast and it's provided some really great quality time for our

family great question so regardless if

you're into Legos it's a good question question of how much should you spend on hobbies in the budget yeah people want parameters they want the percentage how

much is too much that's that's a good question for me I like I'm not a Legos

guy but I like just I don't know I just

like buying stuff so yeah help me out

George on behalf of the declin and the John's of the world is is there a percentage what the bad news is I cannot give you a prescriptive percentage because that would be insane like if you make a million dollars it's okay to spend a$ 100,000 on your hobby and if

you make $20,000 you can only spend 2

200 so what I would say is if it feels

like it's too much that's probably a good gut check your body saying hey let's let's slow down now these people make $300,000 they're in baby steps 456

meaning they're debt free with an emergency fund and therefore if that's where they want to spend their money that's totally fine with me I know it's not that's probably a shocking answer cuz here's the thing some people are really into golf some of these golf

memberships 400 bus a month00 bucks a

month just to for the pleasure of being part of the country that's what it cost to sneeze on the course 800 bucks

Initiation fee of your you know firstborn child I think and so I don't

judge people's decisions for what they spend their money on in their Hobbies what I do judge is if they're going into debt for it and if they're doing it at the expense of their financial future there you go so I would say 4 to 800

bucks just on a gut check when you make 300 Grand a year you're probably making

uh we're talking what 15 to 20 grand a

month yeah so to spend 800 bucks as a

percentage you're talking that's a fraction of your world so I would say if

if that's what you're into right now go for it it probably won't be a forever

hobby that you spend $800 a month for the next 20 years I also want to say this um here's where I'm in support of

Dean here Dean did not try like I have

been guilty of with like my guitars or

other people with their beanie babies or

whatever um is trying to say I spend

this money but it's somehow an investment I love the de just straight

up said I love doing this with my family

it's a way we bringing ourselves together I've been doing this since I was a kid I love it we're pretty much

loaded and is this okay and for me if

there's there it doesn't sound like there's a pathology around it you're not trying to justify it you're not trying to like twist up some magical story

about how this is all going to work out for you financially in the end this is

just dude I like doing it we make a ton

of money I'm assuming you're putting money away in four five and six I'm assuming you're super generous can I

tell you um here's a balance I've struck

with myself um I still have a lot of um

I don't know purchasing guilt if you will just because how I grew up we grew up with that a lot and so um maybe come

up with with an arrangement that I'm going to buy some Legos but I'm going to give extra right I'm going to tip extra

this month or I've made some deals with myself to to as a way to it's a it's a

it's not real I just made it up um it's

just for me but it's uh all right I'm going to buy this guitar but I'm going to be extra generous in these other areas um as a way to balance the cost

that's a great point and for me I'm pretty goal oriented so if I had had a mortgage to pay off and college to save up for I would say all right we're going to limit this to 400 a month anything

above and beyond that we're going to throw toward the mortgage there you go and maybe pay the mortgage principal first that extra before we buy the Legos

and whatever's left becomes the play Lego money becomes Lego money that's right and so I think that is a better approach to it if you did want some balance and again I see a mortgage payment I see the interest racking up I'm less likely to want to go buyt 400

that's my that's been that's my hobby right step now we get to do some crazy

outrageous things cuz we don't owe anyone money with your Legos college is

covered all right let's go out to Pensacola and talk to Ryan hey Ryan

what's up dude hey guys how's it going doing all

right brother what's up Hey so uh my situation now is my wife

is no longer working full-time uh she

just gave birth to our second child a

few months ago W um and yeah we've got a

halfy old son already hey Ryan I get a

lot of grief for interrupting but can I interr you real quick sure go ahead just

no one's listening just me and you real quick let's rephrase how you said that

okay the way you phrase that was well my

wife quit working she gave birth to a

like as though she messed something up

so let's flip it around hey dude this is

so exciting we just had our second kid

and my wife is is staying home with the baby say it like that okay that all right so we just had

our second child and my wife is for the

most part staying home with the baby amazing that's awesome way to go dude

very cool thank you thank you okay get to

your question yeah so um we've got

substantial amount of debt um you know

we have been kind of living a little bit above our means um but it has been manageable when we were both working full-time um now I'm the primary um you

know Money Maker in the house and you

know things are starting to stack up now we've kind of burned through our savings over the past year and um

so now we're kind of looking at uh what

can we do to you know kind of lower our

monthly expenses we've already Tri the fat as much as we can um we I don't play

golf on the weekends anymore we don't go out to eat at restaurants anymore um

I've got our grocery bill down pretty low every month but um it's still

getting a little out of hand what's out of

hand is it your minimum debt payments

what is your totalb spending a lot of

money yeah so most of our debt is tied

up in two vehicle payments that are both

upside down um and how upside down five grand

or 20 grand um her car is uh we ow 23,000 on

it and it's worth about 17 okay um in my

truck we owe 15,000 on and it's worth

about 12 okay and is that private party value

how'd you get to those numbers of what it's worth yeah private party value on

KB okay so we have a deficit here of n

Grand what's left in savings if

anything uh nothing so there was about

4,000 in savings a year ago and we've

just been eating through that slowly uh trying to keep up with things we've got a personal loan that's 9,000 and I've

got a uh credit card that's 2 and a half

thousand and then we got various little

small credit cards that don't total up to about a grand I'm going to let George walk you through the nuts and bolts but I just want to say this and I'm get some hate for it but it is what it is um you

have created a world for yourselves

where staying at home may not be an option for a season you simply it's a

math problem it's not a values problem

it's a math problem you'll owe a ton of money dude

if she was making 4K a month and daycare is 2500 that's $1,500 extra dollars we

can put toward debt you see the math

there right um thankfully my wife is

working part-time at the preschool my son goes too uh so we get a discount

there yeah but it's not cutting it though it's not working you have a math

problem and it's because of the life y'all lived before you had kids right right so here's a few things

you can do number one cut up the credit cards yesterday get on an every dollar

budget yesterday I'll give it to you for free if you'll use it and you're going to list out your income then list out all of your expenses and anything that isn't food shelter utilities

Transportation insurance or minimum debt payments it's gone

and on top of that we need to go figure out ways to make more and that might mean hey Dad's going to have to go after

work to deliver pizzas or do Uber or

whatever overtime you can do in order to

make this work but it sounds like you

guys have my guess is about $40 $50,000

in debt how much do you

make uh I make with overtime and

commissions I make 55,000 a year yeah

it's not gonna you gotta make more money brother 22 an hour um you know about 45

hours a week so we need to figure out how to create at least two grand in

margin so that in a year we throw 24 at

it this thing's done in 2 years that's

the math problem you guys need to figure out and that might mean she goes back to work for a season yeah it might mean you're working s days a week for the

next 2 years man to dig out of this hole

and for everybody listening man I'm

telling you the debts not worth it this

is the Ramy show we'll be back next hour right here

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

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today what's going on what's going on

I'm John with my good friend George camel and this is the ramsy show live

from Nashville Tennessee we are taking

your calls on money on Building Wealth

on your relationships on your work whatever you got going on in your life

88 25 5225 George and I will sit with

you we'll listen we'll figure out the

next right step we got to uh Phoenix

Arizona and talk to Cruz what's up

Cruz hi how you doing I'm doing good

excellent brother what's up man so uh

I'm uh 20 years old uh got married right

out of high school and uh um I'm

currently working at a church um doing

maintenance and stuff at uh around minimum wage and uh what's minimum

wage um actually I'm a little above I

think I'm making 16 an hour okay um so

my wife works as well so I think our

monthly take comes around

4,000 um but it's uh really expensive

out here in Phoenix so I'm I'm wondering

if um I need to maybe look into

somewhere I can make more money or if I

should move somewhere more cheaper or I

I don't know go I'm going to let George handle the dollars and cents but can I

just use you as a as a case study for what's going on in America right now uh

sure I feel like we've all been told

particularly those age 40 to

20 that you have a right to work

whatever job you want to work and live

wherever you want to live in whatever City you want to live whatever

neighborhood you want to live even um

and that it should work out and I love

your humility man you're you're you're

doing literally the Lord's work man you're cleaning toilets and fixing light bulbs and I was a maintenance man at a church for years you're doing good work behind the scenes man um and you live in

an expensive place and so now you've got this math problem

right yeah and it's frustrating because

you like the work you do and you do good work and you help people out and you're working for a bigger Mission than just getting wealthy and you probably have friends community and family in Arizona is that right in Phoenix yeah yeah

that's right I hate that for you brother

but yeah you're running up against um

and I appreciate you just being open

about it like you're running up against a problem that everyone's running up against which is I wanted to live here I wanted to do this job and the math isn't

working and George and I were just

talking off air George gets roasted

alive for suggesting well you have to make a change you don't understand

you're an idiot you don't care about me no it's I love you enough to say it's it's a mouth problem like it's just a mouth problem just is so um man what do

you think George what does your wife think about this is she open to moving

is she open to you switching careers and

kind of having a big life change well uh I mean we we talk about

it but we are really connected here you

know all our families here we have uh

deep friendships at our church and uh

you know so it would be a hard thing and we wouldn't know where to go and as for

a career change I don't know what else I

would want to do in life currently well

we can help with that I'm gonna make sure before you get off the line we give you Ken's new book find the work you're wired to do it includes a get clear career assessment and it'll help you get

some gears turning about what you were

really wired to do on this Earth to make an impact and it might mean hey I got to

leave the church I'm going to go do this other thing I'm going to get this education this credential um and for now

it might mean I'm going to go to Target

and pick up a job making 20 an hour instead of 16 cuz that bucks an hour is

an extra eight grand a year that we can use to get for closer to our goals so

what is your next financial goal do you guys have debt do you have savings yeah we got about uh a little

over 2,000 in medical debt that we

should be able to pay off soon and uh uh

we ran into a car problem and lost our baby St one so we got to build that up

again but so that's it you just have two grand

a medical debt yeah so so the debt is

not the thing holding you back it's not like like if you were debt free we can have our best life we need to get the income up in order to live what's your rent right now uh right now I got it at

uh 1,200 but in in reality I'm renting

like a little house from my parents on

their property and so it's sort of like

artificially deflated rent yeah yeah

okay so let's say we we kept this rental

situation until we got the better paying

job got out of the debt got an emergency fund is that a good exit strategy

uh I think I I I don't know I I don't

know just looking out here cheapest rent

you can find 16 or 1,800

plus like yeah for a one bedro what does

your wife do and what does she make uh

she um also helps with the church

preschool and she works at uh Starbucks

and uh she makes probably about as much

as I do overall we bring in four grand a

month so so Cruz I'm going to speak

directly to you cuz I love you

okay you're faced with a couple of

challenges that really are not going to move it's just expensive to live in

Phoenix everyone in America wants to be hot all the time I guess and working at

the church pay 16 bucks an

hour it's a job it's not a career and I

want you guys to both sink your teeth into a career even if that's you man you're handy you could go start a handyman business in Phoenix and charge 50 to 75 bucks an hour

do you believe that um I'm sure I could figure that out

yeah you could even tell the people at the church and say listen I'm available for hire I'm 60 bucks an hour I do good

reliable work I was going to say you can mow Lawns but the grass doesn't grow in Phoenix but you can shovel rocks right

but listen here's the thing quadruple your income tomorrow if you do that can

I just talk to you just D well you

called so I am going to talk to you dude you can't just sit at home and

go well you know huh

you deserve more than

that you know what I mean I feel I can

hear you just feel trapped you lost your mojo man when's the last time Cruz was real pumped about something fired up

what was it probably was it a project

something you were doing High School

when um I was renovating the house I

live in now and getting married and I

got this job at the church and

yeah all right here's what you were

doing you're building something you're building towards your future you and

your wife go out tonight you don't have a lot of money to spend but go do something even if it's going for a walk on a park bench or something and y'all

map out where you want to be in two and a half years just pick a number man and

almost be a little bit unrealistic about it and then I want you to get on the phone tomorrow and call Target and call

Walmart and call McDonald's call

everybody because you can serve that

church on a volunteer basis when you can

breathe when your wife can breathe when

you got stability in your house but the

mopy like oh well I don't it's hard man

dude you're going to look up in two years and your problem's going to be here and you're goingon to have a kid on the way yeah yeah I worry about that

sometimes okay then here's what we want to do I I want to stop worrying about it and I want you to take action take action take action take action okay five

applications by by the time you go to

bed tonight 10 applications tomorrow

let's see what you can Cobble together workwise and just go make some money

what you're going to find is I don't like retail I love retail oh this guy

who I'm working for at retail needs somebody to help with a bathroom model I can do that and now you're Off to the Races or George said like man call somebody at your at put the call out at your church I'm here to help anybody do anything after hours and here's what I charge I charge 40 bucks an hour and I'm

the best there is and I'll be on time and I'll finish below budget man you'll have more work than you know what to do with but you got to go you got to go you got to go you got to go go we can't want this more than you do hang on the line

we're going to send you Ken Coleman's find the work you're wired to do be sure to take the get clear career assessment inside of that I think it will unlock some really cool things for you

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show triple

8825 5225 I'm John deloney joined by hor

camel and Hey listen you want some more

money and less stress of course we all

do but if you scroll and scroll and

scroll George you get more and more

madness and Madness and Madness and Madness and thankfully you used this

wild thing that's not available very often which is called common sense and research and data for your new book

Breaking Free from broke which exposes

the most common money myths and excuses

headon like credit card schemes and investing traps and mortgage myths and all of it it's all the stuff they wish they taught you in high school or that I

wish Instagram got correct man um this

is the financial literacy that you're like oh okay never got this 20 years ago

but it's not too late to get it now or hey I'm fresh out of college I want to avoid all the mistakes how can someone

just cut through the noise and tell me the truth yes and that's what this book was and uh the reviews have been amazing

John because people are telling me dude

you convinced me to finally cut up the cards you convince me that it's not as bad as I thought and that I'm in more control than I thought well it's one of

those things where if you look around and everyone who's giving you advice is either broke or miserable or so anxious

they can't breathe it's like there's

this guy smiling on the cover maybe I'll try that one right and it's actual it's

actual truth you'll gain knowledge and confidence to break free from A system

that let you down here can I tell you this this is totally aside from this commercial I'm doing for your

book it's so ironic to me that people

that get the most mad at you are the

ones you're literally you're you're like

it's like their bike has been chained up to a fence and you've got the chain Cutters and you're like excuse me please can I can I free your bike and they're like no no and you're like and I'm just

trying to I'm just I just want you to be able to go home and ride your bike wherever you want to can I just cut this and they're like no it's th those people you're trying to help are the ones that get so mad it is wild out there but I

kind of you know part of it it's what Dave's been doing for 30 years is stirring up Ruckus by telling people to

like live on less than they make and it

you know really rils them up no one

tells me how to live my life that's right and so I try to do it with a dose of humor and self-awareness and get to

the objection in your head before you do

and that this book I feel like is the modern version of here's 30 plus years

of the Ramsey principles to still down through this Millennial sort of younger

lens that isn't yelling at you right but

it's kind of a snarky like hey man come

on we can do better and they still work

they still work they still work the ramsy solutions.com store what you going say well we we wanted to make sure this book was practical so we included for free three months of the premium version

of every dollar which is our number one budgeting app so you get to connect to your bank you get the paycheck planning tool all the fancy stuff the team's throwing in there you get three months of it with the book there's a QR code inside you can check out uh so get the

copy today Ram solutions.com store click

the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast and if you've checked it out and you love it make sure to spread the word and send one to a friend who could use it it's Christmas time people going to need it

let's go out to Chai toown and talk to Chris what up Chris how we

doing hello hey hey Chris hey what's

up well um hey I want to know a couple

things okay if we have we have some debt

we have some um some debt um so finding

out that as a couple we have about

$575,000 in debt I don't have a job

how much of that how much of that debts your mortgage our mortgage is

332 and a second mortgage at 65 which

ones did you know

about I knew about that and I thought we

probably had some credit card debt but I

didn't know it was this

significant um was this done behind your

back or is this you're not paying

attention I I hear in your voice you're

trying very much to not dishonor your

husband by telling the truth that he borrowed a whole bunch of money behind your back and hadn't told you the truth

yeah well correct and he also took out about

80,000 I think in our 401K that he

didn't tell me about what do he what has he spend in this on um he is spending it on I believe our

our paying what do they say robbing

Peter to pay Paul I think we're just

cycling that what did he use it to pay

not this much

cars probably some vacations that I

didn't really understand weren't real

money but credit card money um my

daughter's at um at at college and we're

we're paying for that we're paying for all her expenses she's in her fourth

year she's a senior right now okay but

we also have a a significant um son well

our son is significantly disabled and he

lives with us he's 24 okay and so that

prevents me from having an income outside of the home because you're a full-time caregiver correct that doesn't explain

180 Grand of outside spending and debt

yeah here's what you really need is for

him to sit down with

receipts okay and here and here's this

is a hard conversation we're having and we're going through it real quick um

George and I don't see very often that

this much debt this fast is taken on

things like you get what I'm saying like

it's not usually like a couple of vacations and uh and a new car almost

always there's something nefarious going on struggling is is there um is there an

addiction is there that my head goes

right to addiction My head goes right to some there's somebody else my head goes right to there's a big gambling issue like my head goes to there's something big going on and hey look if he sits

down and says no no no here's 100 Grand in college tuition here's these two

vacations here's these two cars okay

cool just show the receipts okay and

that you you don't have that piece

because the wool just got I mean the rug just got pulled out from under you it really yeah it really um it really did

so I know he likes to gamble he likes to

you know well you're buried the lead

there Chris there it is yeah own toy

receipts you're telling me that someone

who likes to gamble who spent and went

180 Grand into debt spent none of it on

gambling but what if it was over a

period of about 10 years is that

feasible anything's feasible that's 20 grand a year of course that's feasible um my how

am I gonna know if it's a gambling debt

just show me the

receipts I have a hard time believing

he's going to prove that there was 178

Grand or whatever spent on well I use

that to pay down this debt and pay the tuition and cover this cost he's not

going to be able to come up with it he's going to get defensive and he's going to get angry how did you find out Chris

we've already been there okay we've already been there how'd you find out um

but yeah he's defensive and angry and then I finally pulled up the Wells Fargo app that shows credit reports and um

debt and I was astonished okay I want

you to pull all three credit

reports okay and you can go to annual

credit report.com and do this for free don't pay for it they're all free and I

want you to compare and find out just how bad it is I also want your kids to

pull credit reports and see if anything has been taken out in their name on their um social security number again

all this is free annualcreditreport.com

and I want you to hear the words that we

this is what we call this in our H and here in this building we call this financial

infidelity that that betrayal is that

deep because now you got a special needs on this 24 and you've already been

thinking about life after you guys you're thinking about a Special Needs Trust and then you find out you're $200,000 in the

whole right yeah and so we got to we

have we have to have a come to Jesus truth telling everything's got to be on the table and then we got to figure out a plan working its way out and part of that plan is we are freezing our credit

all of it your credit my credit no one

is taking out a loan ever again for any

reason it might be telling your senior

in college you got to pay for the last semester on your own sorry we're broke

you got to sell some cars you got to sell the house I mean there's going to be some a reckoning to this what does he

make oh he makes 16 I just asked him 162

a year okay but he's in s so it's it's

you know it's up and down yeah Chris I

hope Beyond everything that this is just

the accumulation of of a couple of grand

a month over the course of 10 years I

hope that's the case it would be very

rare if there's not something else going on I I love being wrong I'm wrong often

my wife reminds me I love being wrong I

hope I'm wrong here but more so than I

hope I'm wrong I hope you get some peace in your life hang on the line I'm going to send you um Financial Peace

University this is 101 this is Back to

Basics and your husband's going to say I don't need to watch that crap he does

Hees cuz he's about to lose his wife over it okay yall watch these lessons

together and then I'm going to send you every dollar the best budgeting app and youall going to be able to keep track together on how this expenses are going

to go full transparency you don't get to

stay ignorant for another day Chris you're going to be very involved from here on out we'll be right back

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[Applause]

apply welcome back this is the ramsy

show triple 8825 5225 I'm John deloney

joined by George camel we have this rad

new thing called the Ramsey Network app

and it allows us to do things where we're not censored where we don't get throttled where we can control our own

messaging and our own our own words our own content so um it's completely free

and we have early releases in there we have special interviews in there we've got all kind of cool stuff it's the Ramsey Network app you can you can get

it anywhere but also it provides you an

opportunity to ask direct questions that we can respond to um people try to call

and call and call and they don't always get through on phone lines but here's a

place where they can where you can leave questions um so here's a question from

the Ramsey Network app questions from

Thomas um this is going to be a fun fun

answer because you and I probably handle this very very differently very I thought this is the question for John and I thought this is a hilarious I'd like to know George's answer to this while in baby step two how should people

prioritize emergency emergency

preparedness such as purchas purchasing

generators food water in general Supply

applies for when it all goes down

actually they didn't say that for an unknown future I added that part for emphasis cuz George I think that's the

spirit behind it it's all coming down

that's right and actually as I say that

in just um I have stored food I've got stored

water I've got a generator um and

there's a hurricane of the century heading towards Florida so this this is a legit question this doesn't feel like a uh um and while we're at it you know

the moon landing was fake and the the Earth is flat yeah this isn't quite conspiracy for real I'm going to assume the best intent from Thomas here this is a normal levelheaded person correct

correct so baby step two means you have

a $1,000 in a starter emergency fund but

all other money is going toward debt

payoff so he's saying Hey how do I prioritize things like a generator Food

Water Supplies well I would say we got

to limit what we can do we're not going to go build a bunker and spend 20 grand

but if you want to go to Costco and get a little emergency preparedness kit for

60 bucks put it in the budget and go do it um so I I would just say you got to limit how much we're spending on this

preparedness idea is this a can of gas

in the garage or is this a $5,000

generator there's a big difference and all I think there's I love that George there's some Nuance here so emergency

preparedness started a week ago for

people in the path of hurricane Milton that's headed right there right and so I

I would have considered that an emergency pause everything get water get

some food um and or fill up your cars

with gas and get some gas cans and go

stay with some relatives or some friends in a safe location so preparedness when

it's acute like man you got to do what you got to do to survive and take care of your four walls preparedness as in

maybe like me you watch a lot of YouTube videos and got some good Instagram

accounts on when it's all coming down right for me the most pressing emergency

in my household was how much money I owed people that would come knocking on

my door or take my house from me take my

my cars from me right so that is a

bigger emergency number one number two

then you begin to say okay do we have I

live in the country so if the power goes

out I don't have any water like I got to go get can like buckets of water to

flush my toilets right um that's different than living in the city so ask yourself where you are and that's a part

of living out in the country um and the

other thing is over time yeah if you don't owe anybody any money you're working on baby steps four five and six as a family save up and buy a generator

are you gonna have a portable generator or one you're gonna have built into the ground that's GNA you know automatically kick on I haven't thought this through John thanks for asking the hard questions you're welcome but again

here's what I want people to do make

these purchases intentionally don't make

these purchases haphazardly from a state

of panic remember when your body goes to

fight or flight when you watch enough videos and you start your palms start sweaty sweating and your heart rate racing you're like I God it's all coming down you're not going to make informed

rational decisions and and if you're still paying off your student loans you don't need to have five years of food

you need to pay off your student loans pay off your student loans and again all

this is coming from a guy that's got a generator in food and water like you know what I mean um and I just know a guy so that's the other you'll never

find me George you'll never make it here's what I know your Tesla will run out of charge again thank you it

wouldn't make it very far trying to evacuate anywhere unfortunately so there's that that's a

great video you just Pile in the film let's go let's go pile into the it makes

it trust me my wife was like I was like we we got her a new to her car and I was

like hey you should get a Tesla and she was like we are not going to be all like

are you serious we're going to have a gas car in the family very anti fragile

antifragile wife good for her all right let's go out to Tampa Florida and talk to Jared you should have gone to Jared

we're going to Jared what's up

Jared hey how's it going what's

up um just calling in first I want to

say thank you guys um you know working

through your guys' steps and working with Jim Stovall um is what allowed us to get out

of debt and have an emergency fund to

buy the plywood and board up our house and evacuate to Tennessee yeah well hope

you guys are safe man are you you guys

out yeah we're in Tennessee right now oh

good good good good I still I have

family down there but you know just praying for them and that's right um we

all have those family members Jared that just decide nope we're going to stay say so yeah we'll pray for him we will pray for him pray for him how can I help you today brother yeah my question is um just

thinking about future future Family

Planning uh my wife is here with me and

we don't have any kids yet but um you

know I'm trying to figure out the health insurance thing I've had people recommend High deductible with high deductible plans

with an HSA um or you know there's standard

plans or I'm on meta share um and so

what what do you guys recommend for as far as that goes well there's two kind

of uh buckets to put this in if you and

your family are relatively healthy then

the high deductible Health Plan makes a lot of sense and you get the HSA which

is one of my favorite tools out there

because it's triple tax advantage so the money goes in taxfree it grows taxfree

you can withdraw it taxfree for medical expenses so it's a really cool tool and

then like a PO plan might be better if

you go to the doctor a lot if there's kind of chronic health issues and so

there's kind of two buckets if you go to if you're like always going to the doctor you might hit that out of pocket

pretty fast and then it's covered but if

you never go to the doctor that's also a bucket where the high deductible Health Plan wins so it really depends on you and your family situation your health so what would you say is the status of your family and their health yeah we're both really healthy um

we like to do checkups you know once or

twice a year um but just thinking in a

couple years you know we want to start having kids and um

want to make sure that we've got help with that and coverage for that yeah

that makes sense well the pros of like a PO versus the high deductible Health Plan is there's a lower deductible and

there's lower out-of pocket max the cons

are there's higher premiums and there's a smaller provider Network so the high

deductible Health Plan wins when you look at the premiums every month but it does have a higher deductible so if you

guys can save up for that outof pocket max and be prepared for that higher deductible then I think it's going to be a win in most cases

and it's what I personally have for my family through Ramsey is I do the high deductible Health Plan within HSA I

imagine John does the same I don't know yeah that's that's what we do and I'll tell you Jared if I was back um running it back again having little babies um

I'm too old for that now if I was having babies um and I knew like you I'm going

to plan for two years from now or three years from now um my intention would be

to go into that three years out and save

up money and go to the hospital and say

what does the cash pay for baby and

they'll give you an all-inclusive cost

now if you have an emergency C-section something like that of course it's going to be extra but often they will almost

always they'll give you a cash option to

come and have a baby and it's inclusive of the before and some of the limited

after care so I would have that conversation but it might be just 5,000

bucks or 7,000 bucks and it's like all right we got three years to save up for that let's head on down that

road all right and then the as far as

like the high deductible plan um with an

HSA goes um that high deductible that like we'

save up for that and would that be part of the emergency fund or is that something to save up for separately or I

think it's fine to have in the emergency fund the chances of like the HVAC went out plus the deductible and all these things happening at once is very slim but let's say the deductible is $7,000

for the family I would make sure to have

at least 7 Grand and when you have your 3 to six months expenses saved up that's

likely going to be 15 or 20 grand so you'll be plenty in the clear as far as that goes yeah and George I that's I

that's what we've always done is hold the deductible as a part of the emergency fund it wasn't on top of the

emergency fund and plus you have the HSA to cover medical expenses as you begin contributing to that yeah and so if you can if you can I say get lucky if you

can go a month a year and not have to

touch that HSA that becomes a really cuz

you can invest wonderful cushion that's be on the uh the floor and then you becomes like a retirement account that's pretty cool yeah hey that's it for this

segment we'll be back in just a few minutes right here on the Ramy [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show 8825 5225

it's 8825 5225 I'm John delone joined by

George camel the handsomest face in

radio wow let's go out to Minneapolis

Minnesota and talk to Laura hey Laura

what's up hi how's it going what's going

on um well first of all I want to say

thank you um last year I worked through

the Ramsey plan and paid off my student

loans so amazing I really appreciate all

the work that you guys do how much did you pay off uh

$47,000 wow so are do you not owe

anybody anything anymore nothing nope

all right can we do an impro to you do a Deb free scream right here on the radio um sure can you scream your head

off are you in a place where you can Scream real loud um I'm in my work

parking lot oh that people already think

you're crazy it' be great it's true all

right count it down uh you paid off how much What's the total $47,000 47,000 all

right we got Laura from Minneapolis paid off $47,000 doing an impromptu kind of weird

screaming in her parking lot de free scream let it rip

do I count down count it down three two one three two

one dude look at George even coming

through all right the best is you're watching on YouTube the team zoomed in on the debt free stage with the graphic and animation well done just only thing

it's missing was you yes all right so

what's up Laura how can we help um okay

so actually well speaking of being

debt-free so um I found some land

recently um and it's a really good deal

um and I don't necessarily have the funds for it so normally I wouldn't even

consider that makes it not a good deal I

know I know but but but hear me out hear me out all right so it's 20 acres for

$29,000 oh that sounds so awesome I know

that's what I'm saying I might buy it is

there bodies buried on it why is that cheap it's so cheap um I well I can't

give the specific so I don't want anyone else to sign it wow yeah just tell me where the GPS coordinates

are so um it's like I I've driven past

this land a million times I checked it

out last night I plan to check it out with the seller I think the owner is just selling it directly I'm planning to check it out

tonight with him um and it's it's just a

wooded area a little bit of it is a I

don't plan to like build a house on it

or anything anytime soon I would

honestly like live on it in a tent um or

you know just save quite quite a bit before you know building or anything

then why are you buying this camping is a lot cheaper if you don't need 20 acres um well eventually I would like to

have you ever lived on have you ever lived in the woods I've camped

plenty have you ever lived in the woods

um no but I have considered it many

times a place where I rent I do and it's

awesome uhuh but it is not what you

think it's a lot yeah yeah so I I guess

I don't necessarily need to live there because I I do rent for pretty cheap so I could rent you know for a long time

before building on there but I guess the point of it was I don't plan to spend any more than the 29,000 I know but you

don't have 29,000 I don't have 29,000 can I give

you a great like Mama camel wisdom this

isn't I'm going to say it in Arabic I'm going to butcher it but

it's and that's what this literally translates to the camel costs one penny

and I don't have one penny is that not the coolest Mama camel

wisdom right there so here's what that means it's a the thing that's the best

deal that you can't afford is a bad

deal right so you're going to make payments on this thing that sits there

that you don't even use all for the

pleasure of knowing that you could camp

on it yes but I actually I can't take out a

loan on it because I don't have you're correct yeah cuz no banks thinks this is

a good investment and you know what the bank wants your business and when they're

like ah we can't take your

business then that's called a gatekeeper

they're trying to protect you from yourself so your only option would then

be to do like an owner financing thing

where they essentially loan you the money and you pay them back and you just create your own deal uhhuh and I have a feeling you're

actually going to try to do that when you go walk it you probably don't so

actually I was wondering maybe if there was some kind of other option like have

people convinced owners to wait six to

eight months while someone they absolutely have I mean

they've had this land forever if you really convince them that Laura is amazing this is who I want this land to go to and then you work your tail off

and go save up 29 Grand maybe they'll

call it good and say all right we're willing to sit on this land for 12 months but you're agreeing to buy this at this future date and I'm making this

up Dave is a real estate guy so I'm making this up but if maybe there's a contingency contract that says I will I

I intend to buy this in in 6 months and

here is my plan and even invoke the name

Ramsey I'm a Ramsey I I don't have the cash I'm saving up like mad I just paid

off all my student loans I really want this will you hold it for six months and here's my plan for how I'm going to get

$29,000 maybe maybe maybe so there's a small

chance yeah you're telling me there's a

chance right Lloyd Christmas thought the

same thing but hey can I tell you

something um that to give you some sort of optimism sure I promise I promise I

promise other land will pop

up yeah it just it just does it does it

does I think so I think this is a good

deal I don't usually find lands that is cheap or I haven't but also my friend

just told me last night she was like do you need 20 acres or would you be fine

with a lot less I think I would be fine with a lot less you would you would but here here's what you have in your head you've worked really hard for the last few years you're tired and you deserve

this and it's kind of a carrot out there

and it feels awesome and I dude I

totally get it I've got land for sale

all around me and I can't afford it and it makes me B na anas as the great Gwen

Stefani once saying makes me

crazy but I can't afford it and so I can

torture myself every day by being like Oh my gosh if I could just if I I can't afford it so I can go play with my kids

it's a better use of my time or go run around my dog right yeah just don't make

yourself bananas uhuh you know what I mean and

what are you gonna do with 20 acres for real like what are you gonna do are you a hunter um well sometimes okay my family

hunts so yeah and but I mean it's that

would be a lot more expensive than hunting on some some free land and what's the taxes on this 20 acres I don't actually know I'd have to

ask the owner that's a great question what the easements what is the ongoing maintenance cost it's right on land or

it's right on a road yeah and what's

eement cost to pay part of that like yeah it's

just a lot and I feel like I'm ruining

your dream and you're actually one of the people I don't want to ruin your dream I'm happy for you I wish every

American could own 20 acres it's

amazing you just don't have

$30,000 yeah but I could get there

pretty soon I think okay come up with a

compelling story get a guitar maybe sing

it to the guy maybe he'll hear that or

he may you may take him out and he just

uh um he just gets really mad that you

wasted his time he's going to look at you be like you don't have any money you be like no but I really want it in eight

months I really want it yeah you don't

have any like or a Christmas miracle and he gifts it to her at no charge Christmas miracles that's the George I

know I don't I'd always ask why you

getting rid of it it's a fair question to ask why you getting rid of it so cheap where are the bodies buried what's going on Buster yeah there's like some

secret uh it just feels awfully cheap I

know it's you know mines under there

Landing cheap these days so like a grand

an acre feels insane I know I kind of want to get it even though I don't go to you'll never find it listening to the show on YouTube or

podcast show's about to end I want you to head over to the Ramsey Network app

totally free to download you can finish

the show for a distraction free

experience if you want to go further with Ramsay we pick the calls for you filter by topic and you can get all your favorite Ramy shows in place that's important so if you want to go back and run a call back or if you want to be like hey I need a call about buying land

without a credit score it filters for

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coming up next and you can click the link in the show notes and go watch the rest of the show in the app for free if you're listening on the radio it's going

to continue on like radio does sorry

John I was distracted I'm now on the Ramsey Network app I'm watching you live

that's very meta it's pretty cool I

apologize if you're wondering I'm gonna go now is it hard to work with jiny in the workplace I'm not even gen I'm 35

years old man the answer is correct

you're like four years older than me whatever he's playing fortnite

underneath the table over here these gen xers they're all upset cuz they're the Forgotten generation oh we just don't

want the world to fall apart and you guys are hell bent on vring the whole

thing this good reason to tune in to the next hour in the Ramsey Network we'll see you soon right here on the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what are we doing

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## 220. The Ramsey Show (Replay for December 31, 2024)


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---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today welcome to the Ramsey show where

we help you win in your life we want you to win with your money win in your work

and win in your relationships I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw is alongside and we're here for you the phone number is 8825 5225 that's Triple 8 825

5225 all right let's get it started with

Taylor in Los Angeles Taylor how can we

help hi guys thanks for taking my call

how are you good how are you good thanks

so pretty much some back story my husband and I have about like

$105,000 in debt between credit cards

cars and student loans and right now he

makes $8,400 a month and like we're

breaking even between like rent bills

and whatever my question is I've been

doing hair for three years off and on

and I've been doing it consistently for like the past four months now and I'm

just barely breaking even I feel like I'm not seeing a profit so my question

is would you advise like getting a different job like

a full-time job where I'm bringing in

more income because I finished the Total

Money Makeover and I feel like my mindset has changed about money and I'm

like I feel like I need to bring in more income in order to make a dent in our

debt but I don't want to quit what I

went to school for you know what I mean

well maybe it's not a a matter of quitting it maybe it's just a matter of adding two until you're making the money

that you want to make because I I think

you know the answer to this yeah you do need to be making money like you can only go so long uh breaking even and if

the if the situation were reversed let's

pretend that you had a 9 to-5 job that

you were making money and you said I'm going to go over here and do hair on the side How will I know when it's time for

me to do this fulltime what would we

tell you when you're making more money or or

when you're making as much as what you're making at your full-time job

exactly okay okay so can how does she

how does she play this yeah well I agree with you I think we look at a number that we're trying to make so what's a

number I'm assuming that when you called

in today you've got an idea of the budget the way you're talking about it so what what's the number let's take a take-home number after taxes that if you

were to bring in that right now that that seems a realistic and B it would it

would really help on the margin here so we can accomplish what we need to accomplish and knock this debt

out I would say like to help out and

knock out the debt like 20 2200 2

between 2,200 and $2,500 a month would

be very helpful okay all right and and

so what are you making right now on your current job what you went to school for so I went to school for hair and

like like said after rent no no no

you're okay after rent and like product

and stuff like that I mean maybe I'm making $200 a

week yeah so is it let's figure out

where the issue lies is the problem that

where your studio is is too expensive or is the problem you don't have enough clients or is the problem a combination

of three things where you are is too expensive you don't have enough clients and you aren't charging enough probably a combination of of of

those three yeah CU we moved to a new area so I'm so the past like four months

I've been starting from square one as

far as clients so I'm just kind of I

feel discouraged because now that I read the book I'm like okay I want to like go go go but with that in mind feel like

I'm not going anywhere yeah well first of all that's a low margin business so

I'm going to I'm going to say Amen to what Jade said earlier which is we can

come back to to doing the hair uh but

right now we want to get really intense

and so uh yeah I'm circling that number

of $2,200 to

$2,500 and the way I would come about it

is I'd go how can I help add that amount

of money what does that look like and so

you start playing it out okay so if I get a job making $20 an hour at Walmart

I'm just throwing that out there I'm not telling you Taylor that's where you got to go but I'm just saying you start to look at the possibilities and you don't

have a degree in certain things so you go okay what can I do do for the most amount of money per hour we're just taking an hourly job all right yeah but you know what you might be able to get a uh maybe get an office manager job or or

an assistant you know an administrative assistant job you you start looking at

that and you go okay what must be true

for me to bring home that $2,200 or

$2,500 that's where I would start

because that's where the ideation comes from and you begin to say okay I can go over here I can do this I can do this and so I wouldn't over complicate it this is just about a paycheck right now

in order to get into the the dead

snowball and knock it out then once we

get through uh where we want to be now

we can start to dial back and we get

back to building your business over time

and uh and then you do well but that's the advice I would give you that's because that's what I would do if I were

in your shoes I'd do whatever it takes to bring home that extra money absolutely and can I just dig a little bit deeper just cuz I'm curious uh so your husband's making you know over a

little over $100,000 a year

uh what's your what's your rent or mortgage situation how much are you paying a month right now we're paying three grand

in rent okay for at home okay um and

then you said the car tell me about the car because I'm looking for other ways that I can clear up some breathing room for you yeah so I mean we both have car

payments his truck payment is $600 a

month and mine is $400 a month okay and

what do you owe on them but we uh my car

I owe 14,000 and I think his truck we

owe 20 and what are what's his truck

worth if you were to sell it today private sale if you had to

guess I I'm not too familiar with the

truck prices but I think he's he said

around like you know 50 or maybe 45 I'm

not I'm not 100% sure okay so I would be

looking at these cars very seriously because if what you say is true and I I know that you're just taking a shot in the dark here but if it's true that he

owes 20 but it's worth 40 do you know

what that means that means that if you sell that car you're going to have a $20,000 spread of profit which means you

could get into a cash car for 20,000 and

no longer be paying $600 a

month so that's huge so by the way just

to plug that in Taylor what that now

means is that $600 comes off of the 2200

you said you need to make so now all of a sudden we we don't have to make as much and that's why that's such a huge play there mhm and the same thing could be true with yours I I would say coming

off of this call if you were to have homework it would be first off I'm

digging into these cars because that could be a pile of money sitting right there in front of your nose so I dig into both of those cars get your husband on board uh and then after that yeah

doing Ken's homework and saying okay uh

what can I do what's the job that I can

get this is not the be all end all is just to make that money and I think that

you're going to find a lot more money quicker than you thought if you guys are willing to make some sacrifices with these vehicles

okay awesome fair

enough yes thank you guys so much for

your advice I really I really appreciate you taking my call yeah and I love her

her spirit of what can we do yeah and I

think that you know when anybody comes

into the show for the first time maybe some of you are listening or watching for the first time today and one of the

themes that you're going to hear from no matter who's hosting uh on any given day

is that we're always going to recommend

the shortest distance that's right to

getting out of debt that's baby step two

yeah baby step one is $1,000 so we're

going to say what do we got to do we sell stuff you know uh we go babysit you

know we do whatever to get $1,000 that's

baby step one baby step two smallest

debts to largest Debs knock them out we're always going to say the straightest the shortest route and that

is intensity is what I'm getting at and

so it's for a season and in this case Taylor is really willing to do that I

love that they jump into together you've

done this with your hubs and you guys paid almost half a million dollars off the relationship strengthens when everybody's going we're going to both go all in and do everything we can that's

right Ken so thanks for the call Taylor we believe you guys are going to do this we're thrilled for you don't move more ramsy show coming [Applause] [Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman and Jade warshaw is alongside

she takes my cool Factor up multiple

levels as I was reminded by somebody in the lobby I do my best skin you listen I

need all the help I can get and I

appreciate it hey the phone number is

88255 2258 825 5225 Jade and I are here

for you want to coach up Jade will lead

on the money stuff and I'll help you on the income side of things how about that and um that is how we get this thing

right uh and and work these baby steps

so that you truly live like no one else

all right we're going to Anchorage Alaska and Robert is joining us there

Robert how can we help today hey guys um

thanks for taking my call I I recently

sold a small business that I've been

building for six years and and in

getting about 2.2 million before tax

nice way to go yeah thanks what kind of

business was it it was a media business

like streamable assets great and good

for you I've been I've been building it since I was 18 I'm 26 now good for you

how about that yeah how do you

feel I feel excited but also really

scared scared cuz my income is going to

be gone my monthly income from this and

I need to invest this money properly in

order to replace it you know what were

you what were you paying yourself I'm curious uh I was paying myself like

$10,000 a month for me and my little

family okay and uh why' you sell it I

sold it because the deal was a higher

value than I was currently making um and

I just wanted to get more into physical

asset asset creation than digital asset creation right and the reason I asked that is because my next question is what

were you or what are you thinking that

your next move is I understand you're

calling about the investment piece and and we're going to get Jay to jump in on that in a second but I'm curious are you thinking about another business going to work for somebody else you think about taking six months 12 months what where's

your head at right now as far as new income yeah I guess I guess I'm a

creative person and I I things pop up

and I need to able to like quickly move

on you know ideas that I have the issue

is that I took this deal thinking it was

going to be capital gains tax and I

recently moved to a new tax firm and

they're saying it's going to be ordinary income so it's actually much less money

than I originally intended taking this deal yeah what will it amount to I think

it's going to slim all the way down to like 1.4 million okay um and yeah that's

a little disappointing yeah it's really

really disappointing so originally I was going to have like 1.8 out of this and I could just put

this in index funds as I've learned from the Dave Ramsey show is you know just Mo

moderate Investments that are not super

highrisk high reward and and just live

off of a small percentage for my family but now I can't do that I need to yeah

and I don't know that I would how old are you 26 26 I I 100 if I I'm just

going to tell you Jade's point of view can chime in if I woke up in your shoes

and I saw myself getting $1.4 million I

would say to myself okay I I have this

wonderful Nest Egg started so that when

the time comes and I do want to retire I

will be able to but I don't think the day is at 26 I think if you start uh

pulling the growth off of this now

you're just I think it's going to stunt

you in many ways because you're 26 you're just getting started and if you

had this idea there's way more ideas in

you uh that will earn you money and I

would see this as okay this was a great windfall that we had I'm going to put it over here it's going to grow and multiply and if at the time I'm 40 if I

want to step back and go okay whatever I'm doing I'm going to do it part-time or you know I'm working for a different cause now it's not really a money-driven thing fine but I don't think that day is

today yeah I agree in fact here's what I

would do um cuz Jay Jay's going to give

you the the any investment advice you want on this but I would take the 120

that you've been paying yourself if you've been paying yourself 10 10 10 a month i' take the 120 out of the4 and

I'd put it I'd put that in in a savings

account yeah and because you've got to

transition and and I wouldn't rely on

that I'm with you like I wouldn't I

would just put it over there and go all right let me get out and hustle a little bit maybe I take a month off whatever uh

I'd celebrate celebrate I'd go do

something real nice with the wife the MS

you know and uh and the kiddos if kiddos

really nice and celebrate I'd take 120

and I'd put that this is above and beyond your emergency fund I would just put it over there just until we get

rolling yeah and and and then i' invest

the rest I would not interest I would not even try to draw off of that for your income yeah cuz we didn't ask you what baby step are you on um I'm on I mean I I have no debt I

paid off my house throughout this business and um wow yeah so your baby

step seven yeah we own our $800,000 house outright

good we own every car outright Fant yeah

we yeah we just but the issue is that

now our income's gone we're just sitting

on this lump sum of money your income is

not it's not gone I want you to reframe that we just said we're going to take

120 which would let's say that's your

income for the next 12 months I mean you've earned that you sold the company that you started with your with your own two hands so I take take the 120 that's

my guaranteed income I don't miss a beat

for the next 12 months invest the rest

cuz you're already in baby step seven and get after and start doing some creative stuff start doing some fun stuff okay that's that's really helpful

thank you guys yeah you're welcome Hey

I'm proud of you you've done something really cool and the good news is I can

tell you guys are like frugal people you're not you know what I'm saying if

if you've done all of these baby steps by 26 you guys know how to live on less

than you make my is that you're going to

come up with something to do next and

you might live on 70 for a while or you

know until you get it back up but I I'm

with Ken all the way I congratulations

that's all I have to say thank do now do

you have an investment Pro that you that you have and you're working with beyond the tax Pro yeah and I think because I'm

26 I just assumed like this investment

would make at least you know 7% and the

more I talk with my

Pro they're like you should be way more

moderate about what this is going to do

like I don't know about that hey hey hey

hey I want you to get with a smart Vester Pro uh Ramsey we have a team of

people that we vet and they they do things the Ramsay way and so a smart

Vestor Pro is going to help you invest this money the right way for you and we

say all the time you should be looking for an annualized rate of return around 10 10% at the least oh that would make

my life yeah it will and it's not crazy

like Ken no it's not crazy I know what

my stuff makes and so it's not crazy

that's yeah that's historic that's not Jade's opinion and just look that up and and look how it does but but again let me just say this it won't make your life

Robert like this is a nice windfall for

you this is Jade's absolutely right

you're only 26 now if you invest this

and you invest it well the way we teach

you're different uh this money sitting

still is going to do awesome things for

you over the next 30 40 years lump sum

doubles every seven years that lump sum is going to be great for you but it's going to change your life down the road not right now so this is a long-term

play 10% you know with that kind of

money getting started you're going to do fine you're going to keep making money you're an entrepreneurial guy you said

it yourself you know the wind blows on

you the right way and there's a new idea

and and you and and to Jade's point

you've already proven an an an otherworldly discipline

for a 26y old dude in America I mean

you're way way way ahead of most

26% 100% yeah you're a freak of nature

you're a unicorn let's just say it yeah

I just stay I just stay really paranoid

I guess about like oh I'm just gonna

that's why we're so Frugal I think it's of like a paranoia that we're going to lose it all or something you're not going to lose it all go celebrate and and Ken and I will give you some ideas I

I love Europe this time of year look at

Jade she knows how to spend other people's money about as well as anybody I've ever met France yeah practice your

French yeah what has your wife always

wanted to do cuz you got the money to do

it mhm go go to New Zealand and see

where they filmed Lord of the Rings wow

look at you you're a virtual postcard

today you just keep it's like I'm flipping through postcards vacation

ideas by Jade I love that enjoy it there

you go all right we got to take a quick break we'll be right back this is the ramsy [Music]

show statistics show that half of

Americans don't have enough life

insurance or they don't have any at all

I don't understand this John why don't

people want to take care of their family they think they're going to die or something well I used to be one of those guys I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said hey the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I

immediately went and got term life insurance that's a gut punch and oh

you're telling me and for for decades Dave I've sat across people who've lost a spouse they've lost somebody important

to them they don't know what to do next

me too I mean you're going to have a crisis here and you know you got two

options while you're sitting and talking to a young Widow she's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's

concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow that's exactly these are the two options take care of your dadgum

family man term life insurance can replace income pay off debts cover funeral expenses so your family can

actually have the opportunity to just be

sad yeah to just miss you that's exactly

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I've used them personally for 25 years

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsay show I'm Ken Coleman and Jade warshaw is joining me

here in the studio here of the ramsy

show so excited that you're with us8

825-5222 55225 you got questions about

income feeling stuck um uh feeling a

little stale and want to make some moves

I'll coach you on that got your money problems Jade's got you on that and we

combine as well let's go to Jennifer

who's in Jackson Mississippi Jennifer

how can we help today yes I just have a real quick

question I have a son who is 17 about

turn 18 and my credit score is 8:30 and

my husbands is like

780 and we want to start him off on the

right track of having a good credit much

like we do and I was just wondering if

there was a particular credit card or how y'all would maybe suggest uh helping

him get and obtain a good credit score

as well okay uh I've never heard that

question on the show before actually

don't think I have I've gotten it a couple of times um Jennifer when did you

start listening I just started like about a

month ago okay great that makes sense okay we're happy to have you yes welcome aboard um so what is it that what are you

hoping he'll be able to do with that credit score I just want to learn a little bit more about your intent

here um well I just want to know that

when he he is also about to start

college um he's a senior in high school

now and so he'll be starting college and I know that he'll need you know we bought him his first vehicle but I know

that down the road that he'll need to get a vehicle and possibly be able to

have to rent an apartment for college

and this that and the other so I just want to make sure that he has a good enough credit score to be able to

get the things that he would need to get

like a vehicle later down the road or

maybe an apartment or something like that well here's I'll be honest with you here's why I don't like credit scores and here's why I I don't I've never focused on one and for you know for all

intents and purposes I don't um believe

in them at all uh because you have to

have debt you have to interact with debt

in order to have a credit score and we

also know that when you borrow money the

borrower is slave to the lender and so there's this part of the credit score that it has never it doesn't make sense

to me because it's all about how you interact with debt how much debt you have what types of debt you've had how

long you've had your debt what percentage of your debt that you're using right it's all nobody's asking

questions about can you actually afford

the item how are you managing that the

cash that you actually and the money that is actually yours that is in your bank account and so right that's why I have an issue

with the credit score what I would love

is for you to teach him away that says

okay if you have the money you can afford it if you don't have the money

right you can't afford it now let's go back to the things you talked about very good he is a very good saver right now

so he only works part-time like two days

a week and he has since this past summer

and he's already saved like almost $3,000 and has purchased like a like

he's purchased like a $2,000 CD and this

that and the other so I mean we have taught him like you do your 10% tith

then you have some that you put in this much you put in savings and this much is like your fund money so he's done that

but what I'm mostly worry about is like

once he gets off to college and he has

to rent an apartment I know a lot of

apartments look at credit scores if he doesn't have one they may be like oh we

can't rent to you well the the truth is

you're right a lot of credit card or a

lot of uh Apartments do look at your credit history uh but a lot of them

don't and the ones that do if you simply

go to them and say hey here's the thing I know you guys look at credit scores I have a zero credit score which means that I don't borrow money because I don't believe in debt but I also brought

a copy of my bank account and you can see how much money that I have here so

I'm good for the money I also brought you my pay stubs so you can see how I work and you know if you if you kind of

dig deeper and also let them know hey

they might charge you a little bit more for first and last month's rent but the

truth is you may have to do a little bit of due diligence to find people who

believe the same things you believe and can actually understand hey I actually

have money cuz those apartment complexes

are out there so let's check that one

off the list and then if we talk about the car well I don't know about you but

I'd rather him buy a car in cash and not have payments than put money down and be

loaded loaded up with a a car payment

because now we're teaching teaching him hey if you want a car you have to pay payments on it as opposed to teaching

him hey if you want a car let's buy one in cash you got $5,000 3,000 saved and

2,000 in a CD once that CD is available

let's buy $5,000 car in cash and then in

a year or two if you want to upgrade and add $3,000 more with it now you're driving an $8,000 car and let's do that

and so that you can always have your

money freed up because one of the things

we've learned um Jennifer is the car

payment is what keeps middle class middle class most people are walking around

here with a $700 a month car payment and

because they have that car payment it's tough for them to do things like invest for their future and so I'd love to set

him up with the mentality that I keep my

biggest wealth building tool which is my income at my disposal I don't give it

away in payments every month and

therefore if I'm not in debt I don't

need debt which means I don't need a

credit score okay it's a new way of thinking I

know that it is cuz people don't talk about it it is it's it's it's scary it's

scary new way of thinking but yes I I I

see your point tell me the fear I it's

not scary what are you scar of and it and it

it goes It goes beyond the rent because

so College will only be four years and

then after that it'll be he'll probably

want to buy a house and I know it's a

lot lot harder to you know obtain a

house with no credit score and save up

for big you know so let me let me let me

uh break in and I want my colleague to

tell you about that fear go ahead

explain it what if I told you that's not true I Jennifer I love this call so much

I'm so glad you're with us because you

are every woman USA right now calling in

the truth is credit scores they benefit

from us right they benefit from us being

in debt they make money off that when we're when when you get a credit card when you sign up for a loan there's a little thing called interest and so there's a lot of people making money off of that and so that's why you don't see

on TV people

advertising uh zero credit scores

because nobody's making money off of that and so this whole thing is a

product but the truth is you can buy a

house the it's no harder you can buy a

house with a zero credit score it's called manual underwriting and it's the

same thing like I told you at the apartment complex all they do it's it's

literally the same process but all they're instead of looking at your credit score they're looking at your actual money and they're going okay and

I've never heard of that I know but it's

true do you want to know that I bought my house with manual underwriting I had a zero credit score

and so okay just to clarify not not just

for you but anybody listening a zero credit score is not the same as a bad credit score that's right a bad credit score is you haven't done well borrowing

money and so you have a bad credit score

or a low credit score a zero credit

score is just as good as a high credit

score it simply means I don't borrow money and if you were to look at my credit report it would say

indeterminable and so there are plenty

of places Churchill Mortgage is one that

we talk about all the time they're everywhere in the United States except New York and Alaska and they do manual

underwriting and literally all they look at I'm going to tell you right now they look for 12 months of trade lines and

that could be you pay your cell phone bill you pay your utilities that sort of thing online or I'm sorry on time they

look for 12 months of your rental history so if he goes to rent he just

needs to show 12 months I paid my rent on time and then they want to see your

I'm sorry I gu said uhhuh okay and then they

want to see what you made over the last year and they'll ask for your pay stubs just like anything else and then they go okay great and if he happens to be self-employed they might ask him for tax returns but that is it and I just want

to clear the a for anybody you're you're

helping so many people right now because a lot of people don't know that this is a thing and it 100% is and once you know

that all of a sudden it's weird because

Ken the credit score don't mean a thing

but a chicken wng at that point so true and I love what you just said the zero credit score tells people hm this is somebody who's very solid with their money and that's all they care about is

are they going to get paid yeah so when you prove as Jade you know really laid

out well that you can pay your son's got

nothing to worry about about so that fear is natural Jennifer but it's because you've never heard what she just laid out most people never have mhm but

she's right could do your homework on it check her on it I promise you oh yes

it's popular to do these days fact check

us I think you'll like what you see this

is the ramsy [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show thrilled to have you with us as we talk with you about your life specific specifically your money your work and your relationships I'm Ken Coleman and Jade

warshaw is joining me this hour the

phone number to jump in is triple

8825 5225 that's 8825 5225 well we've

just launched a brand new tour Dave Ramsey and Dr John deloney are going to hit the road and uh they're calling this

the money and relationships tour uh

little bit different twist maybe on on a live event that if you've experienced uh any of our events before uh this could be a little bit different very interactive and a lot of fun uh elements

to this where the audience is voting deciding on content of course they're going to cover money relationships and

whatever you uh want to talk about so

going to be a lot of fun kicking off Louisville uh on April the 2st 2025 and

then Durham North Carolina Atlanta Georgia Phoenix Arizona Fort Worth Texas

and Kansas City at the end of the tour so again uh

kicking off April 21 202 in Louisville

uh if you want to get your tickets get them at ramsy solutions.com tour ramsy

solutions.com tour and if you're tuning in on YouTube

or podcast you can click on the link in

the show notes to get the tickets so go

ahead and jump on that all right to the phones we go Zach is in Salt Lake City

Zach how can we help hey how are youall doing good how

are you good hey thanks for taking my

call um my main question is I'm a recent

CL graduate I graduated less than a year

ago and just started working full-time

um my long-term goal is to go to law

school but I'm just really not sure how

to financially plan for that and just

plan for my you know financial future as

a whole are you familiar with the uh

amount of law schools that will give a full ride based on elsat scores you

familiar with this anybody ever shared that with you um I've done a little bit

of research I know I I hear things where

the ones that are maybe more willing to give out better scholarships for a wider

range of elsat scores are ones where

it's harder to get a job out of the law schools because they're lower ranked um

so I feel like in some of those ways it's you know I don't know where to we

out the pros and cons versus a cheaper

law school or one where I get a scholarship versus one where there's a

higher promise of a better job or an

easier process of finding a job outside

of law school okay well I'm glad you're familiar with what I'm talking about because this is the advice I give every time I get this call and I've gotten this call several times and I've said it with Dave on the a I'll say it with Jade on the ear if it were me um sounds

controversial are you going to say something controversial Ken uh you may think it's controversial I don't think it is let me just get comfortable all right I would go to the school where I

could get the full ride and I don't care if it's got a big name brand or not because that's what that's what you're hearing and you're hearing people say

things like well the more prestigious

the more Sizzle Factor that the law school has the greater chance you have of getting placed in a firm and I think

that's garbage it's just like people saying you can't get a house without a credit score these are

all popular ideas that no one's really shown

the light of accuracy on and I'm here to

tell you my opinion I don't think anybody cares what

law school you went to and if you go to

a a smaller law school that doesn't have

the Sizzle factor and you get a full

ride or most of it paid for because of a great LSAT score and by the way that's happening all over the country it's very available the reason they do that is

because they're competing with the Vanderbilt law schools or the ivy league law schools that have all the name brand stuff but I'm here to tell you the same

people that make Jay crew they make Old

Navy okay and we got to get to a point

where we start really looking into this and we go a law degree is a law degree

and your ability to practice law is the

same whether you come out of a fancy

school or a smaller school and is there

some competitive advantage that can be proven if you go

to an Ivy League school and they've got

uh all kinds of connections into big firms yes yes but do you know what the

competition factor is there you're

competing with everybody else in your class and what I'm here to tell you Zach is if you want to practice law and you don't want to go into debt then I would do what I just said and i' i' I'd brush

up on my said I'd take it 10 times if I

had to because I can cash flow that and

then I'm going to get a full ride or pretty close to a full ride to a smaller law school and I'm going to get trained on the law and then I'm going to bust it

and I'm going to get an opportunity to go out and be the lawyer that I want to be and I'm not encumbered with any of

the debt that all these other big shot

guys that you think went to they got all this debt and they're stressed out of their mind so that's what I would do

because I can tell you anybody You Ever represent will never ask you where he went to law school is that controversial Jade that's

a good point ah it wasn't as bad as I

thought it was going to be I guess I know you better than I thought I don't

even know what any of that means what did you think I was say I don't know it could have you were setting us up for a cliffhanger no no I'm just saying go to

a law school yeah I agree with an lset

score that wants you yeah and they're going to pay for your law school and you have zero debt yeah and you can keep taking the you can keep taking the test take the L set to 60 times what's the cost to take it I want to say it's around like $200

oh yeah I don't know you can take it 60 times I've made that part up you're

saying prep and knock it out of the park

so you can get that's what I would do there's just no reason to go into debt

to then get in a Scramble with everybody else in your class you go to Harvard Law and they're all competing for the same firms yeah were you thinking about ivy league no I just made that up I I was

mainly there's a school local here in

Utah it's probably my top school um and

it's a it's I think it's turns number 22 in the nation um it's pretty good and

tuition every year is about 15,000 so

I'd come out you know if I didn't cash flow any of it would be about $45,000 in debt on top of you know any other living expenses depending on how much I'm working and stuff um and I know that's

way less than a lot of other law schools

okay now here's the other thing here's the other thing law school is goingon to be there so go go make the 45,000 in

cash flow it yeah why not yeah how long would it how long

would it take you to put that away um that's the other thing is I'm

not I'm not 100% sure like what that looks like currently in my job right now I make about 52,000 I try to save as

much as I can um trying to get out of debt in terms of paying off my car um so

I'm hoping you know within by next spring I can you know be up to the $70,000 range um I don't know you know

sometimes you kind of worry about the time frame of you know when do you kind of age out of these kind of things um

you know in terms of starting too late

in your career which that's up to you how old are you now I'm 26 okay first of

all you're going to be ready to fund law

school in two years two and a half years max if you get after it MH so so you're not too old you got

all these things in your head that I think this is conventional wisdom telling you Zach it's okay get a loone I

mean that's the conventional wisdom well

it makes so much sense you said something that I found to be revealing you said right now I'm working to pay off my car note which lets me know you don't like being in debt right and if you don't like having a car note I can guarantee you're not going to like having $445,000 of student loans M so

that was just a little light into your soul on that one but hey let me just

tell you my brother uh we both went to

college together and then he went and served a couple of Tours in Iraq and

came back and did uh social work for a

while and then he decided I want to help

people even more and he became a lawyer

and he went to night school and did it and he was in his mid-30s and then by

the time he turned 40 he became a judge so it's not too late to decide uh that's

pretty amazing you want to do and

there's ways to do it to where you're not going in in debt for it so just a little little story time there yeah Zach

the point is is there's there's no reason in our minds that you should take

out loans to go to law school you just don't need it so that's our that's our verdict I'm

gonna I'm gonna steal line I think you

need your own show judge

Jade don't see how excited you just got

I could see you man I could see you in

your own version of a Judge Judy I'd be

presiding you'd have a loud collar remember how she had the little polite white felt like a teacup I'm going to

put like spikes on mine yours would have some personality I would love that that

would be so fun you coming in in your big black robe and you kind of s a

purple Rob I want like a gospel Rob I

wasn't going to go there but I like that even more it's your show but you tell me

you wouldn't love like I would love it

yeah people coming in with their little we need a segment on this show where you wear that robe and people call in with

their and you make Financial judgments the judge is in yeah all right

the judges presided all right we'll keep

we'll keep brainstorming that amazing idea are you the BFF I would love to be

the BFF that's funny I'd look like uh

Barney F the old school bayf oh boy that

would be a lot of fun I think people would watch that hey fun hour we'll keep

concepting the show we'll be back before you know it this is the Ramsey Show

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[Applause] today welcome to the Ramsey show where

we help you win in your life win in your

money win in your work and win in your relationships that's our aim we're so excited that you're with us the phone number for you to jump in because it is your show ask questions so we can coach

you you to get you where you want to be

8825 5225

8825 5225 alongside the incomparable The

Fabulous Jade warshaw I am just simply

Ken Carman Ken don't do that to yourself

it's good it's good I'm telling you it's

fun we have a lot of fun together and we're going to help you out let's go to Katie in Springfield Missouri Katie how

can we help hey guys so I am typically very

frugal and try to be wise with decisions

when it comes to money but I've been going back and forth on this idea of um

taking my daughter to a Taylor Swift concert um she's 15 and she really likes

her and I do too but the Frugal side of

me struggling with the price for a three-hour experience but then on the other shoulder I've got this folo side

um that says let's make the memories so

I just would like to talk through that interes oh my goodness this is is I have

been involved in another very popular uh

Taylor Swift call so I heard it heard it

my daughter wanted it be Rachel when I called in I'm sure Ramsey all right well I tell you

what I'm gonna listen along I mean we can so we got to find out where you're at financially yeah right so give us the picture you guys get any debt uh just our home okay just the home

no debt besides the house correct all right what's the uh

combined income

uh it's right at 175,000 nice okay how much are the

tickets going to cost oh probably

$5,000 um and then travel so probably

right under $6,000 for three hours oh so

you have to drive three hours the tickets you're getting are these like really we'll have to drive we'll have to drive seven hours but it's a three- hour experience got you seven hours so are

you staying you're staying overnight in a hotel yes ma'am so 6K total for this

trip is this for her birthday or is this

just because it's it's just because how are

you going to buy the tickets how what would be the method of

payment um so I would sell some of my um

my Employee Stock purchase

plan okay

interesting um that's your retirement

that's amazing uh no no no it's separate

from retirement it's single stocks

single stocks single stocks um

um yeah I I'm going to wait for judge

judge Jade but I I've already reached my

my answer how much single stocks do you have I'm just curious how much in that

um so we have about uh about 141,000 in

in employee stocks and about 50,000 in

single stocks so about right under 200

in both okay are these by the way are

these tickets are these um I and I'm

asking because I'm completely clueless

Katie uh are these like really close

we're looking at 2500 bucks each right

for two tickets that's a pretty good

experience right I wish I I I wish it's

the fact that it's the last it's the

last part of her tour and so they're

they're just really priced high for nose bleeds oh so those are nose bleeds at

2500 a piece wait a second wait a second

that changes my answer which is why I asked by the way because 25 100 was like

I was thinking that was artist Circle or

something like I need to be what you were thinking yes I want the sweat to

hit me for $6,000 N I can do without the sweat in

fact if I'm paying six grand I don't want any sweat to hit me you don't want t- Swift sweat to hit you no no no I I

want anybody's sweat hitting me certainly not hers okay I mean I got

nothing against the Swifty sweat I'm just saying I don't want to be sweat on

for that kind of money I'm going to let you know Katie and

is this a k I'm shth to my

core in a biblical sense that these

tickets are $6,000 you tell her listen give me a specific ruling please cuz she's got the money she has the money um

actually I have more questions about your Investments than I do about Taylor Swift but

um I mean if you want to go you can I

struggle I struggle with the seats for

the money that's where my struggle is it's not on whether or not you can afford to do it it's the Val it's the

value in it yeah that I'm I'm there

that's if if I'm being honest Katie that's where my struggle is is the value of the tickets is oh not the not whether

or not you can afford to spend $600,000

or $6,000 on a thing does that make

sense yes you can afford to spend $6,000

on something is that where you were leaning Katie why'd you call us I can do more

I'm I'm I'm struggling

because um just like to be really Frugal

but my daughter said well you know I'm

almost 16 and uh have you guys never

done anything like be there no not the

two of us yeah no we

haven't so did I did I detect a hint of

emotion just then yes because she said we're we're

just very frugal um and she said you

know like money is just money it's it's

so um yeah so it is kind of emotional

because I would love to go with her but it's like oh my goodness it's a lot of

money going to take I'm g i I am ready

oh okay I'm going to take a page out of

the Stacy Coleman handbook which is I'm unaware of this

the jar of marbles yeah oh yeah I'm

going to take a page out of the Stacy Coleman which is the days they go by and

you don't get them back is basically the the essence here yeah and I think you

have an opportunity to make a really cool memory something you've never done

before and also prove that you can be

you can be a cool mom and you can come off the wallet every now and then and you can afford it yeah do

it boy am I surprised I love that you

could knock me over with a feather right now really yeah I did I thought you were

coming in hot but uh I'm I'm going to

say because they're so Frugal this is

not a lifestyle for you guys of no we

just go hard in the paint all the time you have the money you weren't planning on putting on a credit card you didn't mention points one time it I she by the

way it's Employee Stock it's not out of her retirement right uh she said she's

going to sell some things do you have

three to six months of expenses laying around for other things yeah we have we have about 30,000

in savings okay y i I'm 100% im an

agreement with you and and and for the

reasons that life is short yeah

they have the money to do this it is

outrageous you can't if George were in

here he'd freak out because he can't George can't spend money on anything nice but it will be so Unforgettable for them that's what I'm saying and to me this is a Priceless trip with your

daughter Katie I also feel like I hear

your heart saying yes let's do this and your brain's going hold the phone and

you thought well I'll call Ramsey and we'll get somebody else to talk to my brain and in this case yes it's a lot of

money yes it's overpriced overpriced

completely overpriced painfully

overpriced but our our daughters don't

know this and in the case that you can

do this this is about a memory and one day she'll go good grief I can't believe you did that for me mom yeah and I think

that's why I do this but just don't mom

you don't don't complain if you say yes

I'm going to do it don't be like these seats are crazy and it don't just enjoy

it enjoy it for the experience because

in the nose bleed it nose bed sucks like

let's be honest about that I'm going to actually push back on that I have watched football games in the very top row of NFL Arenas and you would be

surprised these people know what they're doing okay let go uh I I think she's

going to enjoy the heck out of it the energy is going to be amazing I'm okay with nose bleeds for this okay it' really be a good experience but put aside some extra money for a t-shirt this is the RMC show

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[Applause]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman Jade warshaw is alongside and we

are together here for you8 825 5225

88255 225 taking your money questions

and your income and work related

questions today uh it's time for our

question of the day brought to you by why refi there uh We've made uh We've

let me let me start over all of a sudden I forgot how to read Jade that's all right it happens to the best of us yeah that's right and live it's always exciting hey we've all made money mistakes uh so if you've defaulted a

private student loan we're not judging you but we are saying that there's something you can do about it and that's contact y refi y refi was created for

people in your exact situation go to Y

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yy.com Ramsey it may not be available in

all states all right today's question comes from Hudson in Florida uh he says

I'm 26 and married with three kiddos

I've worked for the same company for six years during that time we've had a lot of growth which I played a key role in developing the company now grosses over

10 million a year and I've been offered a partnership position uh with the two

current Founders this has been what I've

been working towards this whole time

that I've been with this company but now

that it's here I'm second guessing myself and I feel like I have impostor

syndrome do you have any advice for me

so that I don't don't set myself up for failure yeah love the um love the

transparency here yeah imposter syndrome

is nothing more than doubt so the first

thing I would say Hudson is is that

you're not an impostor imposters are people who uh POS as someone else and

typically this is in a illegal operation

so someone who would try to steal my

Identity or poses me or poses someone

else to do something illegal that's an

impostor a complete fraud a complete

fake and then a syndrome is a fancy word

for some type of a disease or sickness

and you don't have a disease and you don't have a sickness what you have

Hudson is good oldfashioned doubt and

doubt only comes to people who are

attempting to move forward and so all of

a sudden after all these years you've been offered an opportunity through your hard work because Jade you you know business

you know small business yeah people

don't just come up to somebody and tap them on the shoulder and say hey we'd like you to be a partner they are giving

you my friend um a a good portion of

this company and their own equity and

they're saying we're going to split some of our pie for you that is the ultimate

endorsement so I would remind you to

remind yourself that the doubt you're feeling is because you're taking a major step up and a step up or a step forward

is always uh connected to the

unknowns and the fear of the unknown is

what's creating the doubt so what you're really dealing with is you got some fear

you got some doubt and that's very very

normal but you've earned this and so to

set yourself up to win you got to say hey I've earned this there's going to be some new things there's going to be some some Growing Pains but that comes with

the territory and I'm going to do then

what I have been doing and that is

learning and growing and becoming better so this is all mindset stuff and the

doubt by the way is very very natural

when we all step into something new doubt on the first day of kindergarten doubt on the first day of high school doubt the first time jakay goes into a division one volleyball game it listen

doubt only comes to people who are moving forward Jade you know who never experiences doubt who people with their

elbow deep in the popcorn and the bleachers wow because they're just

sitting there watching the rest oh she

should have done this or he should have done this and all this kind of garbage

are people that are sitting on the bleachers and they have no doubt they're

quite certain of their opinion yeah and what you should have done right very

good Ken and and that always kills me

you know it's like get off the yeah why

don't you why don't you put on a pair of shoes and then you see what you'll do in

that come on out here let's go how about you get out on the field or on the court

that's so true let's go you want to compete let's see how sure you are

Johnny Rocket up there into bleachers with your with your hot dog and your your diet coke and your whatever kills

me so I would like to encourage people that are dealing with doubt that tells me that you are moving forward and that

you want to move forward and and as a

result you're facing some unknowns and that's all that is you're going to do fine you're going to do fine congratulations yeah my goodness all

right let's get to Nancy in Los Angeles California Nancy how can we help

today hi thank you so much for taking my

call um yes okay so I'll just get into

it my question is how do I as a

Christian as a Believer how do I walk in

contentment daily while also creating

goals and aspiring to goals and aspiring

to you know move forward and also like

if I've heard from the Lord that I'm in

a waiting season what do I do with that

how do I balance all of that and how do

I I guess wait well and um just for a

little bit of context I'm uh completely

paid off debt this earlier this year March of this year um and and really

happy about that and um just different

moving parts and so that's really where

I'm kind of stuck is can you tell us what you're contentment tell tell us what you're waiting on and where the where the lack of contentment is is rearing its head yes sure yeah so I if

I'm being honest I we prefer that what

happened I I really dislike my job I

can't been going at all and you know i'

I've heard few phone calls and you know

I'm really embarrassed to say that it's been 10 years almost over 10 years yeah

that I've been at this job I inherited it it's a union job it's very coveted in

my area a lot of people you know wish

they could have this job what are the reasons that you do not enjoy the

job um well it's not challenging at all

um I don't feel like I'm you know using

I don't it's not challenging mentally or

intellectually I'm not I don't feel like

I'm really going anywhere or doing

anything moving forward and then also um

just it's kind of rough like the people

I work with it's mostly men it's like I would say I count sometimes it's like 40

men to two women and it's a it's a blue

collar job so can I tell you something

can I tell you something I'm gonna be really really honest with you um I love

your spirit but I think you've got this

all wrong and I think you're trying to justify this this movement inside of you

this restlessness inside of you you're

trying to justify not acting on it I

think you needed to leave a long time ago go Ken and I don't say that as a

criticism I say that as a coach um you

don't need to be content you need to

follow the restlessness in your soul you

aren't being challenged in this and that

means you aren't using your god-given ability to the extent that you can and

that's why you feel this way and it's okay to go I'm one or two women in a in

a in a in a blue collar room with a

bunch of dudes that doesn't make you

discontent that makes you a a living

breathing human being who is aware and

Nancy I'm going to hand it over to my colleague but uh I think you need to be

leaving you do not need to be any more content I think you're now relying on

this excuse of contentment to step into

like our call the question we just got

right cuz what did you think what you were going to feel when it was time to go that's my question

um if you weren't going to feel

discontented if you weren't going to feel frustrated and tired and like it's

time to go then what did you think that you were going to feel I don't know I I guess I guess

since it's I inherited it I just have

felt like I need to just be grateful and

just you know just I think you have I

think you you've been grateful in in

heavy doses yeah you've done everything

you need it's time to leave yeah you can be grateful and move on like just

because you you don't stick around with something forever doesn't mean you weren't grateful for it it's like you go

to a restaurant somebody served you a meal you ate it you were grateful for it and you move you left you went to your

next destination good call right say I

was really grateful for seventh grade but I don't want to stay there yeah seventh grade was a good year for me it was a big year I may have peaked but uh

that's a whole another call you know Nancy I do you have a sense we only got

about 40 seconds so real quick yeser do you have a sense of what you want to

do um I have a few ideas I'm in school

for herbalism I'm interested in ux

Design Graphic Design um all right so

here I've got something for you creativity all right so hang on the line

Christian let's get her copy of find the work your wired to do it comes with the get clear assessment ncy I want you to

take the assessment first then read the

book it's like me coaching you through your results I think it's going to reveal and confirm some things for you but hear this from Jade and I you don't

need to be content in a place that you're not supposed to be yeah it's time

to get a plan together and eventually we're leaving we believe in you Nancy you're a good good lady this is the ramsy [Music]

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[Music]

budget the Ramsey Show rolls along from

our Nashville area based headquarters

thrill that you are with us I'm Ken Coleman and Jade warshaw is alongside

the phone number is 8825

5225 let's go to Chris in Sacramento

California Chris how can we help

today hi guys I just want to say thank

you for hearing me out um I'm 27 and I'm

getting married within a week and I have

a debt no debt sorry um but 65% of mine

income is going to my house and we're

drowning about negative 20% per month on

our utilities and groceries and we've cut back and I'm debating on whether I

sell my home rent my home I have an

opportunity out of the area for a job

that I would be able to live uh rentree

and just trying to figure out life wow

well what we know to be true is this

$65,000 this 65% mortgage uh can't

continue so we know that's true right

right so that kind of takes the weight

off of our shoulders to know okay we can't stay here and then the question is

what do we do next because you said you've got an opp now we can start to say okay do we want to do the opportunity that's outside of the area

what does it look like um I think you

mentioned renting this house and so now let's talk about those other options so

is it fair to say that we both agree you

can't stay in this house yes okay so now

now let's talk about what do we do with the house if I were you I'd sell

it I'd gross about

150,000 i' probably met after real

estate fees about 135 I like that what's

wrong with that nothing it's more it's

just my first home I just put $100,000

into it last two years and you know I

was envisioning having my kids here yeah

yeah so there's just the emotional connection to it um how long did you

have the property two and a half years I put about

$150,000 down on the house when I bought

it and I had a really good management

position at a restaurant before and that's where I'm going to now for the new opportunity um I tried to start my

own business and it didn't work out

exactly how I hoped but I I'm

recuperating my losses and I'm just

trying to get back on my feet I'm currently serving at a restaurant right now and I've been getting by with that

and me and my fiance have just are net

income together it's just we're R we're

not we're not making it you're in

Sacramento why are you guys staying in Sacramento for jobs that sound like you could do

them really in anywhere in any part of the country well and that's where that's

why we're moving it which is more of a

do we rent the home and make a a profit

per month about $100 $200 or do we sell

the home put the entire you know net

into a money market account yes and make

about $400 a month on money market let's

do the lad let's do the ladder because

if you have the opportunity to rent somewhere out of the area and they're covering the rent then this is an

opportunity for you to start over let that money grow that Equity that you're going to get out of the sale of this home let it grow over time because the time is going to come when you want to buy again I did I just I did have a math

question on this because I thought I heard you say that you put 150 down on

the home and then I also thought I heard

you say that you put 100 into it is that

right so you put 250 into this home but

you're only coming out with 135 what happened there uh bad

contractor um I got really jacked up by

that I lost probably about $50,000 maybe more and yeah and I mean I

I'm not a contractor guy I I you know I

was doing my job and I ended up going

underneath the house and I just saw problems and I saw problems long story

short cost me a lot more and I was

paying the mortgage at the same time as

I was living in it so I was you know

unfortunately paying double for away

yeah so it just really drained his out

and then I just paid off all my credit card debt um I had about $117,000 in

debt we completely debt free have car

payment yeah so there's there's some

Silver Linings here I think the hardest part is you had a vision for this house

you got taken for a ride and that sucks

and now as a result you know it's not going to be the house that you raise your family in but I love that you have other opportunities and and I mean you

can kins here on the on the career side

of this to to weigh that out I take

advantage of that while you're on the line yeah well Christoph I heard you

right you've got a really good manager gig you're heading into so you feel good about this yes I'm super conf it's a

nice restaurant and uh South Lake Tahoe

and it's it's to the ninth it's like my dream job so fantastic and did you say

South Lake Tahoe yes oh man that's that

ain't a bad place to work come on chis

and I'd be going for I it just it all

makes Financial set Y and it's just I

just I have with my business I've kind

of had some regrets on that and I don't

want to have my cart in front of the horse and I love it you're asking the right questions Jade gave you great advice you do not want to be a landlord from long distance this is time to move on this is

a clean start and and I think it's great

for you you're going into your dream job in one of the nicest places in the United States to live and um and you're

going to get free of this house which is just been nothing more than a money pit for you unfortunately so yeah sell and

move on my friend sell and move on I

love that and do you want to take another call or can I highlight this for peopley I want to highlight this because a lot of times people are like why does it have to you know we teach that the mortgage shouldn't be any more than 25%

and I know there's a lot of questions around that and this is a really great um it's just a cautionary tale of what

takes place when you don't heed that advice because if you really think about

it it you know if you look at your your

money as a as a whole thing you know

100% I love that you've got an orange for our listening audience she has a she has a little Tangerine in her hand yeah and if you think about it as segments

right we got to cut it up in a segment it's going into segments and so if you think okay if you do let's pretend like

yeah I'm taking your advice 25% okay now

we got 75 left and then it's like okay

if you're a person who values generosity

most of us do so you give another 10%

now you're at 35 and now you say okay

well you've got to invest baby step four I'm investing 15% now before you know

we're already at 50% of our income and

we haven't even paid our other bills yet

we haven't done Child Care yet we haven't put aside for kids college yet we haven't uh you know done taken a

vacation we haven't even done anything yet and we're already out 50 so imagine

what it would feel like if your mortgage was at 40% or 45% you feel that very

very very very quickly so it's it it

behooves you it's a great word you know

I like a good word it does behoove you

to to think about okay what are my

ratios here and is this sustainable longterm because

65% like you said they're burning 20%

every single month there ain't enough Tangerine left over there ain't enough you got to eat the by the time you

do that is fantastic that's why I showed

up today for that moment that was good

yeah but it's it's a wonderful illustration and and then I want you to

while we're on this okay also why we give him the advice don't try to stay don't become a landlord

don't keep that house because he think well I'm going to make 400 bucks a month I want you to walk through the math the real math when people think that that's a good idea well I think for him it was more of a sunken cost fallacy I feel

like he thought well I put this much into this property if I hang on to it

for a while and keep dumping effort or

whatever it is into it maybe I'll get it out and for a lot of time for a lot of us that's kind of what keeps us locked in to something that's just a bad break you kind of have to just m eat pith and

go this this was a bad break it wasn't a

good investment you know I got taken for a ride and walk away and for him going

all the way to from Sacramento to South

Lake Tahoe and now you're going to be a longdistance landlord yeah trust me when

he rolls in in that moving van to South

to South Lake Tahoe he's going be like I don't I'm knock knocking Sacramento yeah

all right but that's a difference he's going to be like forget you want to leave all that behind yeah you want to leave it behind and had a bad taste in

his mouth so I think for him to come out he's clearing 135 it's not as much as he

should that's right but it's still money

and it's going to sit in a high yield for however long until they're ready to

buy I agree and when they buy they're

going to put as much down possible on a

15year fixed rate mortgage hopefully

that they can get paid off quickly he's already debt free yeah and so so the

principle of this whole segment is uh do

you know what it is you've been saying it don't eat piss there it is

by the way spell that for people p i

hith p i t h is that right I think I'm

going to a hidden letter in there we did

we got validation the guys in the booth

great yeah yeah think about the ratios

of your income think about each section like this Clementine I hold in my hand

oh it's Clementine it's even better

Mandarin love it that's how we're going

to do this make sure it's right Phil we

went back to Sesame Street you laid it out for us I love it good stuff all right quick break she's Jade warshaw I'm

Coleman we'll be right [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show thrilled that you're with us I'm Ken Cola Jade warshaw is with me as well8 8255 225

taking your money questions and your

work related or income questions to that

end the get clear assessment a tool that

was privileged to create few years ago

it's helped hundreds of thousands of people and uh just wrote a new book

called find the work you're wired to do came out a little earlier this year and it includes the get clear assessment so

what does the assessment do well it

answers four really big questions who am

I what's my unique wiring and we're

talking about uh in the context of work

um why am I wired that way what do I

want to do professionally and how do I get there and that's what these two tools combined do for you you're going

to spend about a third of your life at work and I just believe with everything

in my being um that you shouldn't spend

it just doing something um that you're

okay at or that you're good at but you don't enjoy it doesn't produce a result

that motivates you so you can get the book find the work you wir to do and it comes with the assessment to get clear assessment you get it at ramsy solutions.com stor ramsy solutions.com

SL store or you can click the link in

the description of the show if you're listening via YouTube and podcast all

right to Susan is uh where we're gonna

go she is in Dallas Texas Susan how can

we help hi um I just went through a

divorce or finalized it recently it took

a while um and I've been a stay-at-home

mom during my entire marriage for um the

past 14 years anyway um I got what I

consider a pretty good amount of money

and I'm just curious I don't really know what to do with it I let my ex-husband handle every single bit of finances I

never knew how much money we had or

anything um so how much are you

getting um well there's a couple

components to it I got a check for 1.1

million okay um I got a 401k for 715,000

okay and then um

$115,000 per month for the next eight uh

seven years okay how old are you I'm

40 okay so you've got a guaranteed

income for for the next seven years

that's nice okay um okay great so tell

me your question okay so my question is I'm

completely debt free I also don't own a

home because I just got divorced okay um

so you need a place to live right I'm

renting right now which is $3,600 a

month which I feel like is really expensive but it is um it's also all

bills paid so my question I guess is um I've

got like $95,000 in a high yield savings

account I started a a

rth IRA I'm like totally I know nothing

about Finance so I've just been trying to learn just in the last month or so um

anyway my question basically is a can I

live like with can I live off of part of

this money like off of the monthly income or do I need to get a significant

job well the good news is the good news

is is you do have a monthly income for the next seven years so you've got some

time to reinvent yourself and figure out what you want to do with life and if I were you obviously you don't need $115,000 per month figure out what do I

need what's a what's a fair budget for me um maybe it's $7,000 a month and then

you take the rest and you're you invest it every single month right so okay

that's thing one you've been bought time

to figure out a career path for you and I'm going to toss it to Ken in a moment for that but let's talk about the rest

of the income that that you have so

let's say just for in just to keep it

simple let's say you invest half of what you're getting every single month for the next seven years so around 7 and a

half thousand or 7 and a half thousand

and then you've got 1.1 million that's a

check right yes yes and I didn't know

what to do with that so I just put it in a money market account because I didn't even know how to deposit that great I I

think that's a good place to start what I want my homework for you is I want you

to start learning about investing I want

you to start understanding okay I know

husband ex-husband used to do it but it's now time for you to start learning because the time is going to come where you're going to need to invest this and you're going to want to understand it you don't want to just hand a check for for $1.1 million over to any body and

say here you handle this you're going to

want to say okay I get it and a great

place to start is here you know here at Ramsey we do teach that investing is a

better place for you to build long-term

wealth than a money market account or a high yield savings account simply because of rate of return right if you

invest that money you'll get a higher uh

compound interest rate of return on that so it'll grow faster and so I would tell

you to get hooked up with a smart Vester Pro um they're going to have the heart of a teacher and they're going to be able to teach you about this and that's

the key thing tell them I don't want to invest anything yet I just want to learn

right and they're going to ultimately have you invested in a way that's um uh

four different types we're spreading it out it's not going to be high risk it's not going to be just in a set of stocks but I want you to understand that so when the time comes we are investing that check but in the meantime we're getting with a smart festor Pro to teach us and then as far as the $715,000 401K

yeah leave it let it grow you're probably probably going to have to do a direct transfer rollover into an IRA and

so the smart Vestor Pro is going to help you do that and then for you now it's

all about career and what you're going to do with your life because you're

super young I got a couple quick questions on the money first so the 715,000 how old are you I'm 40 oh my

gosh it's going to be so much money so the 715 that that is in the 401K and

that then that's your that is going to be a lot of money uh what is that going

to be in 30 years okay did you tell me

you're 40 now yeah she's 40 okay so

let's just say you retire I don't know

let's say 65 does that sound good okay

okay let's say you add nothing to it

that right there is going to be $8

million holy cow just not touching it

the reason I went to that Susan is

because on this work thing I this this

may or may not be a thing now how old are the kids um they are 14 and 11 my other

thing is can I buy a house like yes I

was going to say that I was working which money do I use I would take the

1.1 the 1.1 check is is what you need to

do plus you already have 95,000 in

another savings account so I was going to ask you what is a modest house in a

nice area what is a house price you know

your area for you and the kiddos what does that look like what's the what's the money on that I mean right now

there's like nothing to buy I've looking

um I mean there's a a nice home for

500,000 that okay it's let's just use

need let's just use that as an example

okay so if I'm you and and then I'm

going to pay cash for the house because

right now you're paying $3,600 a month

in rent yeah so you take just little bit

less than half of the 1.1 and you've got

it paid for a house now that monthly budget which I'm using is the 15,000

you're getting in the settlement mhm now

that 3600 was coming out of the 15K it's

not anymore right and your utilities and

things like are going to be nothing you still got the two kiddos in school so so

I would come up with the every dollar budget and and and budget off of the 15

and I would do the the some type of an

investment strategy based on what a

smart investor Pro tells you because

Jade already proved to you you don't have to put another Penny and I'm not saying not to but I'm guessing I'm

guessing their investment strategy is going to be you're going to diversify some stuff because right now uh you are

more than fine Susan like you're going

to be very very wealthy and uh based on

just the 401K and what it does over time

so for me if I were you I I would take

my time you just came out of this divorce you've just settled I'm fine

with you renting for a little bit longer you're saying the market right now is not a lot on the market we's see what happens after this presidential election the point is grieve stay cool the 3600

while it's a little expensive it's not

even phasing you I would take my time

I'd buy a nice house cash and now you

still have over half a million dollars to invest and when you invest it you're probably going to look for something that's non-retirement something that you can get to sooner that's in some sort of

a bridge account so that you can access it you know before you're I agree with

that and that that should be the advice

years yeah but for seven years my

goodness but here's the deal um you're

going to have some margin in that monthly as well that's $180,000 a year

for the next s years yeah you're good so

from a standpoint of work uh hang on the

line we'll give you the the the book find the work you're wir to do in the gate clear assesment but that is a relaxed like what would I do if I didn't

have to work which by the way you don't have to you don't have to I was just

talking purpose yeah so sorry we're

running out of time Susan hang on the line we'll get that to you but thank you for the call you're going to be in good shape this is the ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

call every customer

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun

continue all right go on now don't make

it weird okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do

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## 221. The Ramsey Show (Replay for January 1, 2025)


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| **Video ID** | `kasEKDcJGmw` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kasEKDcJGmw) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:16:11 |

---

[Music] brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music] today from the Ramsey Network it's the Ramsey Show I'm your host Jade warsha next to me is George Campell we've got a Rowdy studio audience uh over there

behind the glass if you don't know you can actually come here to Ramsey Solutions watch the show live a lot of people choose to do that and we're happy that they do if you're not here live you can call in the number is 88255 225225

and we'll get you on the line we've got the incredible Christian over there screening the calls making sure you're not a psycho but we don't think that you are so let's go straight to the phone lines we've got Lily who's in New York New York what's up Lily hi thanks for taking my call I'm

calling because I want to know your guys' opinions on me taking a second

consolidation loan out for my boyfriend's credit card de it's not even for you that was like three bad decisions wrapped up in one how did we get here so I've been with my boyfriend for about two years and when he met when we met he was making a good income I always

make a good income um he I guess didn't

really understand credit cards I'm a credit card person and I know you guys use that term but I I really am I've never been in thatt um I'm the one person that's able to like reap the benefits not pay the interest okay but I my boyfriend has taught me now why people are not credit card people okay um he didn't really understand I guess interest and the

first time around was about a year ago I was hoping to move in with him take the next step but we wouldn't do that he was about 20,000 in credit card debt okay and so I had an

offer 0% interest 15 months up to 20

grand I said I don't need it I'll take it and um I gave it to him it was about 15 I took some for myself and wait you gave him hold on hold on let me make sure I understand this you took out the credit card in your name but gave it to him to use no so it was a it was a credit card loan he had his own credit card

but I took out a consolidation loan for him because I I was given an offer like to me to just take out x amount of money I need but it's in your name yes and it's mostly paid off

actually okay so help me explain where

we're at now cuz thought is like if you took out one and it didn't work why are we taking out another one and why isn't he doing this did he pay this off or almost pay it off or is this you the the loan he he almost paid it off um it's about like 90% paid off uh

the reason why we're here again is because um he continued to use credit

cards and and I I maybe that can we didn't change any of the habits you bailed him out like a government bail out and then he went uh more please listen this is a red flag it bothers me there's a couple things that bother me about this um a that you're on the line and he's not that's the the the Raging

thing is all on you and then you're the one taking out yeah to George's Point you're the one taking out the loans even though he's paying it the loan is in your name and you're saying hey you can do it like this um yeah it feels like

you're kind of in charge and you're trying to mold him into who you want him to be financially and he's like all right you want me to do this okay I'll do it a little bit and I does do you see

that yeah I I definitely do and and

that's something I I you know plan toward I think that's probably what happened the first time at this point you know he's 30,000 in immediate debt

if not more oh so we're we went from 20 paid it almost off and now we're at 30 yes okay and what's he spending it on

does he not have a job what's going on no so he takes home about uh yeah he makes 80 before taxes so he compe is

about 43 a month um and I we did the math we did the numbers we just moved in together and um I didn't know he was back in De until we after we moved in together so um I would have not have done that but what type of work does he do and what type of work do you do because you guys are living in New York City

I want to see if you're living in New York City you it better be like suits like you got to have a reason to be there right right so we were both born here and raised uh he is a uh

junior project Pro manager in the city and he he makes pretty good and then I am I do have a couple of jobs I'm a teacher assistant and then I'm a bartender and I have a lot of side jobs I take home about 4,500 a month after

taxes and everything and like I said his take call Master tax is about 43 a month okay so here's here's the the short end

of the conversation and then we can go back and Trace back how we got there you guys are living together that's your choice you're living in New York City which feels too big for your britches for the jobs that you're doing but that's also your choice going forward what I would not do in your shoes or in his shoes is I would not combine my money with

this person that's A1 and I would not put my neck on the line to get them out of debt because there's not a true true commitment there and there's certainly no legality there to protect either of you um and so I would keep

this I would not if if you're going to choose to live together that's your choice I might say something different and I would say something different I'd ask well why don't you just get married married but if you're not going to get married at the very least keep your money separate because he's getting himself into this mess and he has a habit of spending more than he makes

he spends all that he gets and then some and he's not really interested in doing anything about it George she seems like to be the only person who's interested in getting him out of that which again is you care more about it than he does and at this point it's enabling would you agree yeah I mean I

would agree um with which why I came to my Breaking Point recently and it sounds like you've made an ultimatum like Hey we're not going to move this relationship forward unless you get out of debt yes but then you moved in with him

right so you took back your words it was after I found out after got it so it was there's another

part of this which is like I found out so it was kind of a secret that he was going back into debt am I hearing that right breaks the trust in the relationship he wasn't taking it seriously yeah it was that was bad I agree and the acknowledge is like that was not okay yeah do you have any debt sort of pushing it on no um I don't I

have maybe 10,000 in student loans but

that's not a curing interest and um so trick question number one you do because you took out the credit card Loan in your name plus you still have the student loans so you've got your own financial goals and we're trying to babysit this guy into doing the right things financially so I feel like we got to get our duck in a row and you go dude you live your life we're not going to combine finances

you want to take this seriously let me know at this point this relationship is at a standstill yeah Lily we have a studio audience here and

they're listening and I kind of want to know cuz based on what you're telling me if you were my best girlfriend I'd be like man it might be time to kick this guy to the curb and I want to know what they think by a show of thumbs up or thumbs down they did the Gladiator thumbs up there's a lot of thumbs up over here Lily because

we are seeing a woman who's trying to move move forward we're seeing a woman who understands what she needs to do in life and it's almost like you're being more of a mom to him than a a lady friend you know

what I'm saying like you're taking care of him you're helping him to do and don't get me wrong there is a there is part of a relationship where you are helping each other and you're you're teaching each other but this feels a little bit more you're going an opposite directions mhm and so that's what worries me so I would I would have a real hard conversation and

I would was I would also go I'm never letting anyone loan I'm never loaning money to anyone ever again no no at the very least I would not be living with this guy at the very least because that for you that's your leverage to say hey I I have goals and there's some things I want to do and I'd love for us to be on the same track

and going in the same direction with our money I'd love one day for us to be able to combine our lives and get married but you're not doing your side of it and I can't move in with you right now yeah you're one step away from paying this guy's bills cuz he goes oh man can you my rent I'll venmo you next month I promise yeah don't like that yeah don't don't give away your leverage um yeah

I want to what's that that that they say George uh no one's going to buy the cow if they can get the milk for free oh yeah there I know I just turned into my grandmother this is the ramsy

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you're listening to the Ramsey show next to me is George camel I'm Jade warshaw we're the ones taking your calls today so if you call in this is who you get the number Isle 8825 5225 George you

ready to get into it I hope so let's do it we got Lee from New York New Jersey what's going on Lee yeah hi um I listen to you guys all

the time I really love your show and um

I um wanted to call because uh my husband and I have a some credit card debt okay and we're debating about whether we want to transfer the balances

of that those credit cards to different credit cards for a 0% interest while we pay it down how much is the credit card Deb more um we have one card that has about n uh 20,000 on it and the other one has

12,000 okay and what's the current interest rate uh probably between both of them somewhere between 27 and 29 added pain and reg that's what APR stands for George what do you think yeah so here's the deal these are not inherently evil these 0% balance transfers but you got to know what you're getting into and you got to know that it's not actually doing as much as you think most people do

these transfers and think they've actually done something to get out of debt but if you're already crazy gazelle intense you've sold so much stuff you're working extra and you do this as one little move

while keeping intensity then it can be okay but you're going to pay you know anywhere from 3 to 5 % to make this transfer happen so it's not free it's going to cost you something and it does not actually speed up your debt payoff if you're not already intense so what what makes you think you're going to pay off this 32 Grand before the 0% uh is over or is this gonna be a z

perc card or what yeah both I would like to have both of them be a Z perent card for a anywhere from 18 to 21 months um we already are paying probably

clo I've already paid off my car we're getting ready to pay off another smaller debt um next week um my husband got a um

pretty good pay raise okay good um so

we're hoping that we can pay about a thousand a week wow good to these credit cards but getting them down to 0% um while we're doing that we have two

kids we're still trying to maintain life things like that but um we are getting very serious about paying off that because we'd like to start saving more for our kids college and um for

retirement so what's your total debt and what is your household income so um the credit cards are about

32,000 um our furniture is about 3,800

we do have a smaller annuity that my husband pays quarterly that's about 6500 and our mortgage is about

534 Okay so ignore the mortgage for now

that'll be a baby step six item later on so you're looking at about we'll call it uh 40 Grand in debt right I do have an $188,000 student

loan but it's eligible for forgiveness as soon as you know that goes through

when what do you mean as it goes through

so um yeah I like you've already youve paid the right amount of payments is this the psls yeah I'm on public yes it's public service loans for I've already had a $200,000 loan forgiven good okay and this is this is the remaining 18,000 um which was a separate direct loan and that is I've I've been actively calling to see when it's going to be forgiven unfortunately I haven't been given a time that's the when that's going to happen but you've done your side um yes yes I have enough

payments to be forgiven and what's your household income um my gross income my personal

growth income before taxes I work two

jobs um is

about 90,000 wow and my husband with his

with his thank you with his new job

Venture it's a little bit on the wax and Wayne side it's when he gets work he gets paid well when he doesn't we kind of have to like pinch our pennies what's a good what's a good month and what's a bad month a good month is five ,000 a

week okay to before taxes okay and um a

bad week is 2,000 a bad A bad month is

probably somewhere around 8,000 taxes okay well that's not bad he's Fe 200,000 you guys are making hundreds of thousands of dollars so this debt should be paid off in a few months yeah the the

the consolidation at that point is truly negligible because this would be gone in under a year what what's keeping that from happening because to to be making over 200 00,000 well over 200,000

um and having $40,000 of debt helped me

understand because I'm thinking okay why aren't you just living I mean I know New Jersey is an expensive area but is there something I'm missing here um I I'm just trying to get I'm

really at a point I'm 39 years old my husband's 41 we haven't done the best in

Saving throughout the years unfortunately I've been with my husband for 17 years um you know so I mean well

that doesn't really answer my question because you almost make 300,000 but do you see our Point here the balance transfer doesn't change any habits and that's what worries me here a couple making $300,000 shouldn't be needing to go to debt for furniture they shouldn't be needing to swipe the credit card and so that's what I'm trying to figure out is what got us here and how are

we stopping that part before we ever agree to this balance transfer I have a feeling it's a budget thing can you tell us about that it is okay it is our budget is not exactly the where I would like it to be and we're starting to get a little stricter with how we spend our money are you using every dollar I have not yet okay we're gonna that's

the key we're going to give you every dollar because something tells me you guys are kind of uh set it in forget it I made a budget three months ago kind of you know in my head we looked at our bank account yeah we should spend this much and that's where every dollar is going to really help is are George and I right a budget

issue for us yes agree um so we'll give

you CH before we get off the line Christian will pickup we'll give you every dollar and it's a budget that you make every single month and the good thing about every dollar is it kind of has this kind of copy paste feature where at the end of the month you copy it and then for the next month you just go through it and make whatever tweets and changes

you need for that month but what George and I want for you to do is understand that every month is different you have different goals you know different things pop up and so the budget needs to change to reflect that and here's the thing you make $300,000 a year a little bit more um you don't have

a ton of debt in ratio to that but I think you're kind of in this what we would call messy Middle where your income is good and so your debt it's not like you know it's nothing's on fire it's nothing's on fire right it's not the serial killer at the door it's just like all right this is moderately uncomfortable and so I think there's just a creeper out

the window but he's down the street that's kind of how it is yeah your debts a Peeping Tom it's it's not the analogy Jade wanted to make but I I forced her to do it okay but do you see what we're saying here yes absolutely I want you to act like it's on fire because that's the only way you're going to get out of this thing in three months cuz

I think you guys are incredible you work really hard and you make too much to be this broke would you AG 250 I agree I agree I am actively

working to try to revamp our spending and our and our budget is he on board with that expensive so we're working on that but is he like an anchor that's going to drag this down or is he on board and he's gone willing to do whatever it takes no he he is he's

resolved to letting me kind of like handle the financial part of this and whatever it is I need him to do he's willing to do but he needs to be a part of this budget making Because unless he sees it and he goes oh my gosh Lee this is insane we make so much money where is it going he's not going to be willing to make the right sacrifices

and if it just becomes a well you do this I do this it's just going to become another to-do list for him and I want him to really feel this yeah I agree okay agree so we

need to give you every dollar we probably also need to give you Financial Peace University for you and your husband to go through together um so that you can be on the same page and he can see that he's really an intricate part of this equation just as important as you are and you might be the don't get me wrong usually there's one spouse that kind of takes a slight lead right George you're probably

the one who's going to be kind of pluging the numers yeah pilot and co-pilot like they both have to be in the cockpit paying attention that's right you're not a passenger on the plane that's right not a passenger I agree very good analogies George I feel like I had to redeem it after the Peeping Tom one like I owed you that you took me there um but

the point is a lot of you listening are probably still in that messy middle your your income is good and the debt is just at that point where it's not ruining your life yet and you're still able to go to Applebee's every Friday you're still able to you know buy the new sneakers you want but it's kind of that that creeper in the corner and you see

it and now's the time to deal with it don't wait till it gets worse we can help you today this is the ramsy show [Music]

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chministries.org budget that's chministries.org budget

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all right you're listening to the Ramsey Show we're here on the Ramsey Network it's myself and George camell today um

hey that last call we just took was all about the budget you know it was a couple or family they're making $300,000

George making great money but still feeling the weight of living paycheck to paycheck seemingly not able to pay off $40,000 of debt and when I look at that I mean it's the budget every time it's not being intentional it's really not having a budget you know a lot of people think it's I said it and forget it we made it at the beginning of the year well

we have to Define what a budget is because a lot of people think well Jade I look at my credit card transactions that's like doing a budget no they're way off no I looked at my bank account there was money left I did a budget no it's not something in your head it's not your bank account it's not a credit card statement it's an actual budget like a budgeting app like every dollar that's right

and so the way we teach George is we want people in there every single month you're starting with your income all of the income that comes into your household and there's a area for you to put the income in and then you go through and you're methodically thinking about every area throughout the month that you could spend money and it's divided into categories so you know it's like your your lifestyle stuff it's your utilities

and home and your transportation and you can customize it but essentially you're giving a assignment to every single dollar and you're knowing on purpose this is what I'm spending on even the extra money you're giving an assignment to right and that could be paying off debt that could be going towards savings that could be just you know miscellaneous it could be a cushion it could be you know Grandma's birthday whatever

you decide that's what every dollar is for and so you're really making the most of your money and the way you do that is by creating a budget guys uh every dollar makes it so simple they make it easy to plan spending you can track expenses you save for what matters most to you and like George said it's all in this easy app that is on your desktop computer or

it fits in your pocket so you can take it with you to the grocery store and your spouse if you have one has the exact same Budget on their phone with the same login it makes it that easy so if you don't have it download every dollar for free you can do that in the app store or you can do it on Google Play or or you can just click

the link in the description if you're listening to this right now on YouTube or podcast but the the the Crux of this is we have found that people who manage their money well and people who have success with their money they do it because they're on a budget so there's a direct correlation there um get a budget all right George let's get back to the phone lines

we got Vincent he's in Fort Lauderdale Florida my neck of the woods what's going on Vincent hello hello uh good morning good afternoon good afternoon what's weather like oh uh you know we didn't really get any issues over here from the storm praise to the Lord I heard it's sunny outside I heard it's pretty sunny yeah warm and beautiful love toar I just want to say uh thank

you for you guys taking the time to um to take my call and so I was actually watching George this morning on a video with Tom uh from like impact something yeah Tom B impact Theory had a fun interview with him on my YouTube channel thanks for watching yeah it was really good um yeah so my situation is a little different than average American I'm a 39-year-old uh 100% disabled veteran uh

single no children and so I uh I have

four times the expenses in the emergency fund I have don't have any debt great credit currently renting and so I'm not sure if like I'm in you know or like how vital step number four is uh because you know I have guaranteed taxfree income and until I die you know which adjusts for the inflation right now it's uh 3737

so $3,700 a month uh and of course um it

adjusted inflation like you know like 10 years ago or you know like 13 years ago was like 2700 So it's it's went up like a grand in 13 years do you know what the rate is yearly is it 4% like what how does It Go um that's the federal government they they make their decisions like uh supposedly it's going to go up like two and a half%

so that that'll be like another $100 just kind of follow the CPI inflation rates and all that I I guess I'm not really sure to be honest with you I just know it it does it it does make changes um and so

I'm thinking like possibly I'm in Step seven and so I'm like I'm really seeking advice and counsel for potential options and like paths to follow uh I'm considering buying a home and like if if I subtract my emergency fund then that leaves me like like 43,000 that I have in the bank I don't have any Investments everything is just savings okay but my ultimate goal is to live in

the Caribbean so I'm still looking at some islands I got my eye on some but like you know I'm not sure like maybe buy a property here start here then go there start here and then go there I'd probably start here and go there so you you've never been a homeowner before and so I'd probably want to learn that and get kind of your sea legs for lack of a better term under home ownership

before you go abroad but I love that I think home P purchase is a good thing for you uh we say all the time here that you know your rent it's it's the biggest line item on most people's budget and it's variable as long as you're a renter and so being able to kind of stabilize that that line item and have a mortgage and one day pay

it off in your situation is huge um I do have a question and I

mean you're welcome to say no I don't want to talk about that or whatever but if you're 100 you're 100% disabled um do

you feel that there's any work that you'd want to do and could do oh oh certainly so you know uh each person is is different it's kind of like a different situation than the Social Security Disability like with a a veteran it's it could be a variety of spectrums but yeah like you know I am limited I have situations that I'm dealing with however my My ultimate goal is to continue doing something like

I I I you know I'm with like with Dave like I think he would agree like I I don't plan to stop working until like I die and then you know me Jesus you know what I'm saying so I want to be doing something gainful with my time I think it's you know good for your mind and good for community and so I'm not sure what this going to look like

I looked at maybe like teaching English or even like I went and visited an island and they pitched me being a tour guide because you know I could speak to English English taus so I'm kind of like putting the excuse me The Feelers out there I'm just really in this situation like I don't know what to do as far as like financially and just want to see like what options

you guys might suggest to me and just so I can kind of like um have stuff to consider I don't want you to take your foot off the gas I would continue following the baby steps and that means investing 15% of your income you need to look into what you can do with that income if you need you know different earned income from working outside of your disability payments in order to invest in a Roth IRA for example

but I would put you in this baby steps 4 through six and you know baby steps seven is really hey I've got a paid for house I don't have payments in the world I'm not trying to save up for a house you've sort of already overcome that so that would put you in this kind of long-term journey of investing 15% probably saving up for a house as well you're maybe going to end up paying off that home

and that's only going to set you up for Success later on down the road when you want to buy something in the Caribbean and you're on a fixed income mhm and to George's point I like

continuing to work the baby steps and when you are ready to buy a house just remember your emergency fund isn't your down payment so right now you said you've got four months of expenses so you know for all intents and purposes that is your your emergency fund so if you're ready to if if you're wanting to buy a property you need to save up a separate down payment

because I don't want you depleting that in order to um make your home purchase yeah good yeah I'm on the same page I you know like Dave says um and you guys have said too like you know stuff will happen the hot water heater will go iing or or something so I'm definitely on board with that and like I like that I've been listening and you know

I didn't hear before about like doing um like he recommend not using the VA loan if you can do it because you know there's more fees and stuff and if you can put 20% down and do a 15-year mortgage I'm like wow that's a really good idea it's just a better loan product in general now there are some time you know you can wave the funding fee

because you have the 100% disability it's not that it's a bad product just what tends to happen is people who have no money they put zero down and they can end up underwater on their home or they buy too much home because they have zero equity in this thing so it's all mortgage and so that's the part that's worrisome but if you go to it and that's

the right product for you and you can talk to our friends at Church Hill mortgage and they'll walk you through here's the ab of a 15-year versus the VA loan and what makes sense for you but thank you for your service what a sacrifice I can't imagine what would necessitate 100% disability so a

lot of sacrifice thank you so much yeah George you're right you know and speaking of Churchill I was talking with them the other day and you know because of the FED lowering interest rates even though home interest rates aren't really being affected by that just yet a lot of people are still looking at refinancing and is it time and is it this and talking to the guys over at Church Hill they're like

the time is to make a plan so it's always good to call up Churchill and start talking with someone and say Here's here's where I'm at and here's what my goals are and they can help you walk through that process and figure out okay what does it make sense for you to do if your if your goal is to refinance if your goal is to buy a house it's like it's never too early to call them up make a plan to get prepared

because they're all about relationships they want to build a relationship with you they want to get to know you they want to get to know all the factors that are surrounding your home owning or home selling or whatever refinance even it's a year or three away that's right at least you know what to do in the meantime exactly and it gives you time to actually start working a plan towards that

so contact our friends at Churchill this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I can afford child care how do I how do I Outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills yeah in the middle of all that grief like it's just

it is it's terrible so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reuping it because I'm like I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money

if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place

the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years including of course term life insurance to get a free quote go to 800 356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

zander.com

[Music]

all righty you're listening to the Ramsey Show we're here on the Ramsey Network I'm Jade warshaw next to me is bestselling Author George camel author of the book Breaking Free from broke if you haven't gotten a copy make sure you do because it's litty all right let's go to the phone lines we've got Jacqueline in Austin Texas what's going on Jacqueline hey thank y'all for taking my call you bet how can we help we are on baby step number two and

we're working to pay $15,000 in debt okay and we have 23,000

of that enrolled in a debt relief program okay and there's been a settlement reached with one of the creditors of course after they write rightfully so threatened to sue yeah and then the other one is still being negotiated so my question is with all the other debt that we have is it wise to try to get out from underneath this program I mean what made you go into it

to begin with it's kind of odd to me that you had 102,000 but you kind of chose this subset to turn over to them can you tell me more about what caused you to do that it was out of desperation in the

time for just because the interest rates were so high and I just wasn't I was not

very wise about the decision at all were they already late like were you already behind on them yes okay let me summarize

what happened and you tell me if it's correct so you reach out to the company and they tell you hey stop making payments on all of your debt Let It Go to collections let them sue you instead you make those payments to us and then we'll help settle with the creditors for a lower amount that's pretty much how it's happening I didn't know about the suing part it's that yeah

they tend to leave that part out in the pitch in the brochure hey we're going to implode your financial Life tank your credit have people coming after you to sue you but it's going to be awesome help and they don't actually help you learn how to manage your money uh so they're just middlemen that are unnecessary and for those reasons I would get out of this agreement

because I think you are way more in control than you think and I wouldn't let it to middleman to employe your financial life to help what's it going to take to get out of it and what have you paid to them so far um i' quite a bit they've already

made a settlement um

and I'm about 2500 in on those payments

I have about 1,500 in a savings account with them because that's you know you make the payments they put it in this account and then that's what they use to make payments back to the creditors and I can take that out I mean they said I can get out at any time I am just not aware of any hidden fees that they may

have because yeah that's what we need to find out any money at all I don't need to ask him about that but I'm hoping you can get out without much penalty and fee and move on and do this yourself using the de snowball method with gazelle intensity using the baby steps that's the way people actually get out of debt and so that's your homework your homework is to go

and figure out what's it going to take to get out of this you said you've paid 2500 in which on $23,000 of debt isn't much it sounds like you're still in the beginning process of of this um you said they made a settlement did they tell you how much the settlement was for is it for the lump sum or just individual an individual one in there um it's it's for

the lump sum but

it's it saved me maybe maybe $3,000 not

very much but then with all their fees I ended up not saving any money all but it makes you feel like well this still Sav me money and hassle but listen you can negotiate this stuff yourself if you've got debt and collections you can call them you can say hey I want to settle I have two grand will you settle on the six call it paid in full

and so if you do have debt in collections you can do this yourself the rest of the debts stay current and attack them with a Vengeance using the debt snowball method okay yep

that's what we're that's what we're working on all right I just didn't want to do any more of this with this yeah I wouldn't go down this road any further you turn thanks for the call yeah George we never recommend debt relief programs debt consolidation they're they're charging you to do what you can do for yourself well they Market to you like Ramsey would they're like we're going to give

you Financial Freedom and we're going to help you get out of debt except we know the solution is the person in the mirror right not some middleman who's going to take your payments while imploding your financial life that's what they do yeah don't make payments Let It Go to collections because then when it's in collections now we have the ability to settle yeah and trust me I do not care about a credit score

but I don't want you to tank your credit score that will hurt you financially to have a bad score that's right yeah we would never tell you to do that on purpose all right let's go to Ray and Columbus Ohio what's going on Ray

hi hey what's up um so my question is is how do I

begin to pay down this debt that I have

with the low income that I make okay so tell us what your debt is and tell us what your income is okay so total debt is about

$330,000 and monthly I bring home after

taxes 1,200 oh what are you doing for work I work at a gym and I'm only part-time currently and

basically speaking to my boss he told me he doesn't have the hours to allow me to work fulltime okay so why don't you go go ahead George now I'm just wondering what are you getting paid hourly yes what are you making hourly 16 so could you not find a job

that's full-time paying 16 or 17 or 18 or 20 or 25 unfortunately jobs are not really

high as you know I've put in tons and tons of applications for lots of places and this

we're heading into the biggest shopping season of the year you're telling me no retailers are hiring yeah I me you checked them all on

you checked them all every single one you went to every retailer in your city not well you're telling me there's no jobs you just said there's no jobs looking you're looking okay I'm currently looking for another job right

now as far as the applications I put in I'm not heing I just think Ray is worth more than 1,200 bucks a month would you agree I agree yes what is this what is

the most you have made tell us when you

were doing if you had a moment where you're like yeah I was doing well job yeah my previous job actually I ended up getting laid off because they just were having major budg budget cut issues and I was making about 50k that when I was working okay so what is your skill set

here I'm sorry what what's the skill set

what's your background it was manufacturing it was at a a factory do

you have education in that field or did you just kind of fall into it I just fell into the job and started working there okay is it just you or do you have a family is there a spouse anything like that um I do I do have a son okay and

then I my boyfriend and I do live together so you know what does Child Care look like um child care I do get like

assistance for that but I do pay a little bit um monthly for that how much do you pay monthly can I ask only 108

okay so you've got that we wanted to know that because we want to know are you freed up to be able to work full-time and it sounds like you are okay at this point you got to just get like pound that pavement that's the only the only solution to this is income I wish that there was a magic button but there's just not in your situation income is your only thing that's going to break

you free luckily 30,000 you know you can tackle that but you got to be making it let's get back to the 50,000 let's let that be kind of a goal point for us but the reason that George and I were were really pressing you on the income is cuz we know like like you can go to Walmart you can go to Wendy's you can like there's places that are paying 18 an hour

and it's not um there

there there places that aren't hard to break through and so I think at this point you've got to raise your really

raise what you're calling a lot I've applied to a lot of places if in your mind a lot was eight well now a lot is going to be 30 right and you're going to talk to people that you know and say hey I'm looking for a job are they hiring anybody where you're working do you know of anywhere that's hiring so before you get off the line we're going to give

you Ken's book proximity principle because we want you to be um having the tools to really get out there we're going to give you the find the work you're wired to do get clear career assessment so you can figure out what you want to do going forward because I think you're at a Crossroads yeah yeah and I think you're really how old are you I do 23 yeah have

you

decided I'm not going to borrow any more money because it sounds like right now you're going into debt just to exist just to survive well so the debt is it's

like 177,000 from a car accident two of them are credit cards but they're within 800 you know each so one is 500 and then one is 800 and then more debt it was

like 8,500 was from a car that I had to repossessed after I lost my job yeah and then 3,200 in student RS that I had from the past exactly so I think the lesson learned is no more debt it works out as long as life's working out and then life hits you and you go oh boy this isn't fun yeah and the problem is being in this situation has

the ability to really impede the decisions that you make um and I don't want that for you so keep keep hitting the pavement you will find a job it's just a matter of time we believe in you we believe you've got it stay in touch with us and see see if there's anything we can do to help this is the ramsy show

[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music] today from the Ramsey Network it's the Ramsey Show I'm your host Jade warshaw your other host for the day's next to me George camel we'll be taking calls about your life and your money you can get your call up on the line by calling 888 8255 225 we'll screen you and try to get

you in uh but yeah as long as we're calling to talk about your life and your money you can even throw in a career question you know we'll help you out with that Ken's usually the career guy but you know he talks to US during our lunch break and so we have some information absorbed a lot of wisdom from our friend Ken his desk is right next to mine all right let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Emma and Colorado Springs Colorado what's going on Emma hi Emma I'm sorry right thank you

so much for taking my call um so my question has to do with um my dad

wanting my husband and I to take a

$60,000 loan that's a parent plus loan he took when I went to college okay and

at at the time um I I never made a plan

with him to pay it back he never said you know at this date you're G to become

responsible for this or anything like that um I've been married 3 years now

and we have wanted to help my dad um

because obviously it was a helped me a lot um but I'm really really regretting

that now um and I think like he never

said anything when we got married or anything like that and I think he's just um he's had a lot of conflicts with my husband and it's the way I see it it's

like he's just frustrated with us and um

oh so you think this is first fight I do yes how much can you tell us

about the the context of this resentment was it because of financial choices no or is he using this as

leverage I believe he's using it as leverage um I I think if if I were to

say like oh yeah sorry my husband is

this this and this just like you say then maybe he would be like okay just because for the past 12 years he's been paying on this loan and has not ever mentioned it so what does he not like about husband where's the beef oh my so I think in retrospect so

in the past I was really close with my dad and now I'm just processing all of these things that happened I wonder if he what has been maybe kind of a messed with me like in high school he would tell me a lot of details about his own financial situation that I don't even know if he told my mom about um when he

got the loan when he got the Parent PLUS Loan he told me to not tell my older

siblings about it um okay and I'm the

youngest of I'm the youngest of six kids um so what does this have to do with your husband yeah you you mentioned you made it seem like it was kind of a yes yeah so he thinks that um that he's been

a very bad influence on me and I think that has to do with does that mean how old are you Emma did you get your ears pierced what did you do did you get a tattoo what happened it's it's been so ridiculous like so you're still daddy's little girl and he's like I don't like what this guy's done to my daughter and I don't agree with it

I don't like he votes wrong it's everything and I I think I think he's never let me go I think he doesn't like that I've I've become a bit more assertive which I feel like my husband has helped me really grow I mean you're married girl you you let Mar you're married have you had a hard conversation with your dad yet to say Dad I love you I'll always be your little girl

but I'm also a grown woman and I'm married to this guy and we're doing our own thing and it feels like

you're using this and dangling it over our head to go all right you little grown-ups here's your $60,000 loan back is that a good summary I feel like that's a very good summary unfortunately um and you're the youngest of six did you say that yes

okay papa is struggling I that's what it

sounds like it sounds like he is trying to hold on to a last little thread of

what life was at least that's the way it sounds is he doing okay financially because it sounds like he doesn't have the ability to even pay back this loan otherwise he would have done it so that's why it's so complicated I I have wanted to help with the loan never take it on myself but I've wanted to help because honestly he's made some poor decisions um he's a teacher he I so he told me like recently

that when my sister and I were in school he deferred some of his own debt to keep us in private school and to pay for music lessons and stuff like that so I feel like he has in his mind he's done

the very best he can which I'm sure he did in many ways but I think you're reading too much into it I got to cut you I think I think you have to look at this pragmatically and look at it for what it is otherwise you're going to keep circling a drain because the truth is yes our parents do sacrifice for us and they they're supposed to

and they do you know cut things off for them so they can do it for you like that they're supposed to do that and when they do it we're grateful and I don't think any you don't have to replay that to prove that you're grateful to him cuz we know that you are but if we look at this like let's just pretend that George and I are kind of

the judge here I think Parent Plus Loans are really tough because here's here's what here's what we're really deciding between the money was used for you and it was for your education you got your education and then you kind of did you ask for the loan I don't know did you no I remember

he really he really wanted me to go to this college and I did want to go but I remember saying like are you sure this is a lot of money but if you if you didn't pay for it what would have happened you just wouldn't have gone or what was the I would have gone to a different school for much cheaper or little to nothing and you would have paid for it in cash or there still would have been a smaller loan so no actually this is the kicker

he actually teaches out of college and I could have gone there for free but he wanted to go okay I know it's so bad sad what you isn't that like the one reason to work at the college your kids can go for free oh my goodness he really he really wanted me to go to this Christian private college okay so now now now we have but now

we have the facts because I I don't want to run out of time the fact is he took out this loan he wanted you to go to this school you were willing to go someplace for free and let's add the legality to it the loan is in his name

so if you came in front of Judge Jade you no legal or moral obligation to pay this back but if it's going to weigh on you and you have the financial means then help pay it down it's that simple and have the conversation you didn't have the conversation before so the next best thing you can do is have one now you go all right here can we come up with a game plan

I don't want this to hurt our relationship I know you disagree with my husband neither here nor there let's make a plan to get rid of this debt and if I were you I'd try to settle for half and half I'd be like let's go havies on this you played a part in it I took it I took the gift I took the loan so I played a part in

it as well and so that's what I would do and I if you do make this try

to I say this but this is family stuff and I hate I hate business between family but try to get it in some sort of writing of hey this is what we both agree let's sign it and so that we can always say hey we said this here's what we said I'll pay 30 you'll pay 30 what's the balance now is it still 60 so it's

60 I'm guessing it was closer to 72 when

he first took okay well let's talk about it at this point point and say it's 60 now you pay 30 I'll pay 30 and no hard

feelings and from now on none of us coign for each other and you know maybe you write him a letter and say all the wonderful things that you were going to say on the air about how he sacrificed and you know that's that on that but if if the wedge has already been driven then this debt is not going to change much of that it sounds like he's got other beef

and this is just one part of the puzzle which I'm so sorry that's not a fun thing to deal with and money getting involved just makes it 10 times worse it does yeah Parent Plus Loans are a big big big don't do if you're listening and you ever take a Parent PLUS Loan just know I'm mad at you and a puppy stop wagging its tail oh yeah it's a problem don't do

it this is the ramsy [Music]

show mortgage rates have dropped so if you're thinking about buying a home in the next year contact your local church hill mortgage team right now if you wait more people will be in the market competing for the same homes and potentially driving up prices Churchill will help you do the math to be sure your budget is correct making your home a blessing and helping you build lasting

wealth learn more at Churchill mortgage.com Churchill mortgage.com

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

are listening to the Ramsey Show thanks for hanging out with us I'm Jade warshaw next to me is George camel we're the ones taking your calls we'll give you our best advice some say the advice is worth what you pay for it all right let's go to Sophia in Washington DC

what's up Sophia hi there um so I'm kind of dealing with this situation where I got divorced three years ago I was able to buy my ex-husband out of the house I'm looking at getting remarried now and my boyfriend is asking to be put on the deed to the house right now or after you

get married after we get married and you don't want

to I've had to make a lot of sacrifices

to be in the financial situation I'm in and I just

don't feel like he makes those same sacrifices and he's just walking into a

house and hold up then why do you want to marry this guy it you already have resentment toward him I don't he just really enjoys boating and I enjoy having a roof over my head girl uhuh there's something there's animosity there you don't think this is going to play out in a marriage because it's only going to get worse from here on out because it's going to be well

this is my money that I earned and so I'm going to spend it here and we're going to split the rent at that point just get a roommate I don't want you to get married if you're going to enter into the situation where you're resentful so you perspective I come from it is that

once we're married we'll put everything into a bank account together and we can save up for our own house the problem is I have a child from my first marriage okay and I want the house to go to her

if anything were to ever happen to me okay but that's not the way marriage

works necessarily um so let's let's pull back

because you came you came in hot into the conversation to the point to where George and I were like wow this woman has some beef towards him so let's kind of back out for a second because you're marrying a guy right that if to me if

you're marrying somebody this is the person you ultimately trust that you want to build wealth that you want to build wealth with and you trust your children with them so what I just heard you say sounded as though um and how old is your child by the way three years old three years old so what you just said sounded as though if something were to happen to

you God forbid you want the house to go to her but wouldn't the house go to your spouse who was taking care of your daughter what's wrong with that her father would technically get a

custody of her so she wouldn't have any

of that so then the father's going to move into the house that your husband's in to take care of her no the way I have it set now is that

the the house is in a in a guardianship

so my parents are the uh EX uter on that

and would be able to rent the house out until she's 18 and then sell it do you have life insurance I do okay you got term life in place 10 to 12 times your income yes okay that could be the

solution to a lot of this CU you can make her the beneficiary and she'll have the money it can be in a trust it you'll have a you know the the guardian of it but I I feel like the this is like a leverage piece and you've got a lot of hurt from the past which is very understandable but I think bringing that into this new marriage is going to just put a wall up instantly that says I'm not going to let

you totally in but I want 100% from you and I felt the wall when you just said it I felt like oh wow this lady's got she's really protecting herself is what it feels like you're trying to do and really almost Walling off your daughter as well and it just

for George and I I mean we've just been talking to you just for a couple minutes and it feels like oh okay so I like what

George said about the the insurance and if I'm the spouse like let's George and I sit in in your boyfriend's situation for a minute if I come into this I'm like wait a minute I'm living with you but I don't have any rights you know like I want to go on the mortgage together and of course it makes sense if something were to happen to you that

you know yeah is his name going to be on the mortgage no his name would not be on the mortgage why not I gu guess that would require us refinancing and it's at a low interest rate okay but he and let me put it in his shoes he's going okay I'm helping her build equity to a home that I have no real involvement in MH and that's going to go to

the daughter which I'll have no real involvement in if something were to happen you did mention that you were interested in saving up money together to buy your own place what would happen if when you got married you said okay I've got the life insurance for my daughter she's covered and

essentially if you guys were to get married your your spouse would have life insurance too so if something happened to him you'd be covered so like everybody's going to be covered here and then if you guys said okay this current house we're going to sell it and buy something together what's wrong with that or you just add him to

it yeah I I just I guess I wanted him to

understand what it's like to be a homeowner and sacrifice with me to build something completely from scratch together okay I think we can address that without using this as a leverage piece with the deed I I think you need to address this with them and say listen I want to spend my life with you but I have some real concerns about the way you handle money and I want to raise

this child I want to build wealth together and it sounds like you want to just go have fun and boat in your spare

time and I need someone who has more skin in the game I think if we address the underlying issues then the deed is is whatever Adam to it don't you know do

you think you you could have that hard conversation with him I I think I can would he be shocked

to know that you don't like his free spirit childlike attitude toward

money he would not okay this has come up

before it has I would also use that gut

check to say should this relationship move forward until we address this because if we don't align on this I don't think you should move forward I wouldn't move in together be fair he has been addressing it he recently sold his votes St paying marina fees so there are steps in the right direction so he's boatless now why we want he's boatless now that sounds like the ultimate sacrifice yes

and I do appreciate it quite a bit okay so it sounds like he is wanting to make strides and again if you're going to go into this I would be Allin I think it's the only way I know you have have passed hurt and once you're going you've gone through divorce in the back of your mind you're always thinking I need an escape hatch with the wha IFS

but I think if this is going to work it's got to be we're all in on this and that means we're going to combine bank accounts combine incomes combine everything combine houses Deeds mortgages it's all us and that that's what creates a teamwork y okay okay thanks for the call

to have a reality check yeah we want the best for you um you know we're not trying to accuse you or poke holes in your plan but we we really want the best for you and when you call and we hear that in your voice or we hear that that fear or that hurt we definitely want to address it because it's more than money right it's in in

this case it definitely is is more than just money there's a lot of emotion there there's to your point George a lot of previous baggage there and that's normal well and she's got you know the mama bear wants to protect that baby at three-year-old and I totally get that and so there's there's a lot at play here and there may be some healing to do and I just don't want that to be projected onto

this guy and right hurt the relationship in the long term and the truth is you know if you're dealing with a three-year-old if if we're really thinking about this okay you got three-year-old you want to make sure they're set up life insurance really is the best way um because think about it a lot of times if somebody does pass away and their left property the first thing

they do is sell it anyway right because they want to get their hands on Cold Hard Cash so that's really what people want is that cash so 10 to 12 times your income is going to be plenty to make sure your final wishes are taken care of and then that they're taking care of it's for anybody who who relies on your income basically is what you're covering

and the idea there is that you take that lump sum from the life insurance and you invest it and the returns off of that could replace your income that's right that's why we say 10 to 12 times we've seen the average return in the stock market over a long period of time 10 to 12% so if you want to get term life in place connect with our friends at Xander that's where

I have mine through for my wife and I same with Jade and just run

away from anyone selling you whole life term life is a fraction of the cost you're going to get great coverage and you only need it for that 15 or 20 or 25 years because you're going to become self-insured if you follow the ramay plan you're going to get the house paid off you're going to build up sizable investments in that nest egg and your family's going to be okay

and if you're a stay-at-home parent we still recommend getting you know at least a half million dollar policy exactly because you have something again there's people that are relying on you but what we don't do is take out policies on children so hopefully that gives you a little bit of insight this is the Ramy show

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[Music]

Ramsey this is the ramsy show all right

the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by y refi hey we've all made money mistakes and so if you have defaulted on private student loans trust me I know all about that we're not judging you but we are saying that you can do something about it uh so you need to contact y refi okay y refi was created for people in your exact situation so go to Y rei.com

Ramsey again that's

yy.com Ramsey and remember it may not be

available in all states today's question comes from Shelby in Oklahoma my husband and I are in our early 20s and just got to baby step 4 our income is just North of $250,000 with the help of overtime and side hustles but living below our means is actually how we've gotten to where we are I'm facing a lot of emotional conflict over family and friends hating on us for doing

the hard work of the baby steps and for our high income amount we don't have anyone cheering us on except the ramsy community and it feels very lonely at times knowing that we're still very early in our careers and knowing we will only increase in our wealth will the jealousy and nayang only get worse we really just need some encouragement wow uh will it get worse probably

because they're going to they're going to make fun of you for doing the plan then they're going to be jealous envious and judgmental when you do well yeah they're sipping on that there's no winning with these people yeah so here's an easy life hack stop caring what other people think if they don't pay your bills they don't get a vote that's my policy I agree yeah they're they're on that hater aid but you know what George it is it is painful because you you want

your family to be like yeah way to go you want them to notice that you've done something good right you want them to slap you a high five or say good job or just some sort of acknowledgement so I do think it's tough when you don't get that when you've done something pretty amazing uh like payoff debt and when you've done something amazing like you know Garner a higher income that that's that's a number one I think they're

secretly envious of their amazing income in their earlys I mean how many people in the earlys are making 250 Grand not many there's one piece and then the other piece is they're doing a hard thing and transforming their life and that holds up to mirror a mirror to how out of shape I am financially that's right and therefore I don't like it yeah and so I think there's there's a both end

there and it's only going to get worse as they become debt-free as they make more money and build wealth cuz then it's going to be wow look at the house they have they're must be doing pretty and they we did so much for them You' think they would there's always going to be something with unhealthy people you're always going to have some of this unhealthy toxic conversation

so the best thing you can do is shut it down ignore it don't talk about it and again you said we we have no one except the ramsy community listen there's hundreds of thousands of people in the Ramsey Baby Steps Community Facebook group alone yeah that are excited for you when you tell them weird things like we just paid off our house that's right so there's always a place for

you to go it's a safe place and so go join that group go join a financial Peace University class all of that get people around you who want to see you win and uh it's going to be a much more fun Journey yeah hold your head high tell them get that dirt off their shoulders okay George um you know something that I

noticed with these calls lately and it's worth talking about because you know we're going into the into this third hour here money we talk so much about

money in the health of our money the peace that we need to experience with our money getting debt free and we talk

about that so much because we know that money is entwined in everything right it's wrapped up in everything that we do there's a motivating factor Underneath It All and when you're in debt it does

skew your motives sometimes without you even realizing it you think about it you're in debt you take a job that maybe you don't like but it pays more but the motive is I need that money because I want to pay off this debt um or you sign

a parent plus loan because you think maybe this will give me a connection to somebody and I'll be able to kind of help them make a decision I can have a say in what's going on so there's a motivating factor underneath that or I don't know one of the callers you bought a house and you bought it in a hard time and you sacrificed everything to get it so now that you're getting married to a guy he didn't have to do that sacrific weaponized now you've so there's always this like motivation underneath money

and so ultimately we know that it's important to have a healthy relationship when your debt is cleared it clears a lot of that motive out and when you have a healthy relationship with how you view Money it clears a lot of that out and so just a

reminder that it's not just paper with

dead president's faces on it there's a lot of emotion and relational Equity tied up in that that's one of the reasons we tell people never ever under any circumstances lend someone money right cuz that adds if you want to gift it to them as a one-time thing that's fine but if you lend people money it always ends up hurting the relationship you become the banker that's right

and they become the person who owes you money which makes it real awkward every time they interact with you and you see them go on vacation and you go wait they owe me money MH no matter how much you love them so don't intertwine money before you're married don't sign on the parent plus loan for your kids don't take out the debt consolidation loan for your boyfriend

and if you think these are things I'm making up these are all calls we've taken in the last 60 minutes yeah and then there's the part of it George where let's have conversation like let's normalize talking about each other's views on money because if you're going to enter into a relationship with somebody but you're not talking about the elephant in the room which is the fact that

we both have money he makes more than I do or I make more than he does I spend it like this he saves it like if you're not talking about that you can hear when people call in and there's like kind of that animosity or there's a little bit of resentment because they're not talking about it and so if you're dating someone if you're engaged to someone

if you're married it's never too late to say okay let's let's have a real convers ation here because here here are my views on money or maybe I actually like to start with the other person's views on money tell me your views on money what is what's your philosophy what do you think about debt you know is it something that you did one time and you you made

the mistake and you never want to do it again or is it something that you did one time and you feel like it's a great thing to leverage like have those conversations because it's going to pop up again it's like a zombie it never really goes away and so you want to know what this person views are before you get too down the line with them and

before it feels too late to make a change yeah and if those are that person's principles and values and they're not going to change that's fine it we at least we know now we know but now we know not to move forward with relationship or we have to go to counseling to find out how we're going to overcome this in a marriage yeah because how many times have

we taken the call where one one person in the relationship kind of has their money together or they're working on it and then the or they feel like they're doing so much better than the other person yeah they feel like they're doing so much better and in their mind they're kind of the caretaker they've taken in the person who wasn't making as much the person who didn't have as much debt or has more debt not

you know not having the better financial situation and so underlying the whole time they're thinking like are they just taking advantage of me are they just living here because I'm giving them a they're mooching are they mooching so this is these are many of the ways that money just filters in and if we don't talk about it it kind of just festers and grows in our mind

so have these conversations with your spouse have these conversations with your boyfriend if you've been dating for a while certainly have them uh with your fiance

and make it part of marriage counseling like before you get married yeah well that's why I encourage people take Financial Peace University as a part of premarital counseling because it'll start these conversations de it is a big deal okay um do we have time to take another call I don't want to is it risky no it's risky let's just we're not rolling dice one thing I do want to add to that J a lot of people think well

I don't want to marry someone with debt or I don't want to date someone with debt and here's the deal we never discourage someone from marrying or being in a relationship with someone with debt but you do have to figure out are they wanting to stay there if they're with gazelle intensity trying to get out yeah and a lot of people go well Jade I work so hard to stay debt free or become debt free

and now they're coming into the relationship with $100,000 in student loans and if

you treat them like this project or like hey that's your debt you need to figure that out feel that don't get married don't get married yet you're taking on all of them all the good all the bad and the bad might be part of their debt but guess what if you look at it as this is a season hey I know I saved up all this money for a house

but now it's going to go toward my spouse's debt and then there's other part of it where it's almost like we want them to have the same Penance that we had and it's like I had to walk through this I had to sacrifice you should have to too and I'm like listen if you're getting married and you have the money to bless your spouse in the way of saying hey we're getting married I've saved up $40,000

and there's $40,000 of debt once we get into this marriage that's a blessing and to make it seem like you have to you have to go through what I went through that that's another sign of you're not ready basically just get healthy before you get in a relationship that's all we're asking and if you don't want to marry them if they're in debt then don't marry them that's also your choice too it's a free country it's a free country

this is the ramsy show

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he

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this is the ramsy show I'm Jade warshaw next to me is George camel hey guys I know we've been talking about this but I really want you to be on this live like no one else Cruise so we're going to keep talking about it it's March 22nd through the 29th 2025 and you already know most of the cabins are gone but we want it sold out and again this is not your average cruise this is a premere

Caribbean cruise Caribbean or Caribbean I'm a Caribbean kind of guy all right that's right Caribbean Queen that's it

okay so we're going to Turks and Kos Puerto Rico St Thomas Bahamas and again

this is a top-of-the-line Cru I can tell you I've been in the cruise business for a long time that's what I did before I came here Holland America it's pretty

top draw okay this is a nice Cruise holl in America it's the new ston d uh it meets the standard for for the ramsy guest okay let's let's just put it like that we we're not going to have anything shabby this is very nice it's all inclusive Foods included even room service okay so you can get your hot dog on at 3 a.m. in the morning and no one's going to stop you get your hamburger like a lot of poor decisions happen on cruise ships at 3:00 a.m.

well I'm good now we got power yesterday F 12 days and stuff oh my

goodness was this from Helen yes wow it looks like somebody up

in the can what is it called Poli stick

or something like that and just dumped it oh my my neighborhood and three

neighborhoods down we are probably like one mile directly from the Masters and

where people Park their cars I don't know if you ever been there on outskirts of it there probably 50 pound trees down there we're slowly getting power over in that area and stuff but over here people have like four and five pine trees on top of the house there's no way no way they can rebuild the house and and stuff what about you probably tear it apart uh actually

we had the last storm was 10 years ago and we used to get them every 10 years it was an ice storm iner yeah and it broke down a lot of Limbs and all that stuff so what we decided to do then was go ahead and get rid of all the trees in our yard so that saved you yes so how can we help

today how can you what how can we help today okay one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was this happens to a lot of neighbors and stuff when their neighbors trees fall on their property and stuff and then the neighbors responsible to remove their neighbors's tree and stuff but I don't know who passed that law and stuff I just don't get it so did did a neighbor's tree fall

on your house it's called no if a if a

neighbor's tree falls in new yard which which it did it did during I storm it cost us $4,600 to remove it okay and it

was their tree and stuff they F in our yard so that's what a lot of people are dealing with right now and some people don't have the money and stuff and the neighbors are just sitting back and say hey you got what are you dealing with markk what's your financial question okay my financial question was I we just got our house paying all that stuff we had storm windows on

the front of the house and stuff uh After the Storm no power and all that stuff we couldn't open on because the FES were SK drives crazy okay so I've got I've got one company and I'm about going to say their name and all stuff and they're well known and they said they will come out they're going to have to measure them they'll be homemade and all stuff

and it will take us four months before we can get them but they won me to give them 50% UPF front and I said I'm not going to do that I said I'll give you 10 maybe 15 I said I can even get you a letter from the bank saying I'm good for the whole loan but that's money that I'll be losing if I have it in

the savings account or something like that how much money do you have in savings do you have the full

69,000 okay I got 4K well retire for Kim Clark and all I

mean I'm good to go let me pull let me pull back so you're trying to get storm windows or you're trying to get a different type of window replace all the windows and they'll have Windows and how much is that going to cost total I actually ran across a guy I called the business and just I got a haircut I walked in next door to grab a beer

and the guy was sitting right there and he said $8,700 okay well I don't know that I would go with a guy who was just sitting there getting his haircut drinking a beer I would get multiple bids from reputable companies that you search my haircut oh but still he's the first guy you saw and he mentioned it here's the thing you've just come off of something traumatic scary what just has gone on where

you live oh that believe and then you've got the 12 days with no power and you're thinking to myself I want to just like you did with the ice storm you're like I'm doing everything I can to make sure if this happens again I'm in a better situation so you cleared out the trees and now you're going through that same motion again and you're going next time

this happens I'm going to be a better situation I'm going to get storm windows storm drains everything and I'm not mad at you for doing that and it might be a good idea based on where you live however I don't want you going with the first Yahoo off the street that says I'll do it for you 8700 I want you to take your time no no no it's not that it's

this is a place that's well known my neighbor across the street and all his friends have highly recommended this compy but I still want you to get I still want you to get a couple of estimates right that's just you doing your due diligence and saying there might be another well-known company that'll do it a little bit cheaper maybe they'll do it a little bit faster but at least

you can compare right and that's just being a good consumer at that point oh yeah you you get your and you look at what type of materials and all that stuff that stuff and then when you do it only pay cash do not borrow money for this okay I kind of end with this J you

were talking about this I've been listen to you for 40 45 minutes I'm sorry guys

I'm so tired that's okay but 45 minutes and the women were talking about that were trying to uh protect their Investments well they're they're right right guys are nothing but dogs I'm telling you so they'll go wherever they got to do and stuff but then they finally realize at the end I need to settle down somewhere wait a minute you went off you went off on a tangent we're supposed to be talking about storm storm windows

I know but I'm just telling this got some beef with these guys out there guys will they will take advantage of women well not a good guy hey we hope that everything works out with you in the storm and I do think if you live in a in a in an area that's prone to

natural disasters you need to make sure that you have the right things in place to keep you covered and of course for a lot of people it's impact Windows it might have be having the hurricane graded roof right obviously having the right insurance is in place and we know that insurance has gotten very expensive because of the storms that are happening and so just do your due diligence

there the other pieces don't let companies use this to sort of fearmonger and get you in your time Where You're vulnerable to say you need all these things to protect your family and it's going to cost $30,000 and here's the loan right A lot of people will fall prey to some of that as well because they're they're so and so you got to do things from a calm perspective

the person with the most patience information and options wins and that's what we're talking about here do your research with a calm head pay cash save up have an emergency fund in place don't owe people money and that's going to put you in the best position for no matter what life throws at you and no matter what it is that you're trying to get done don't go with

the first company that whose card you get you run into them at Home Depot or you know you metam at chilies I don't know whatever it is at least get a couple of different estimates because the truth is you might find a better one yeah I don't take business pictures in Chili's yeah that's my that's my rule it's my thing no no no well Jade this uh hour is about to end

so if you're listening on YouTuber podcast you got to jump over to the Ramsey Network app to finish the show uh so go get it if you're on radio

the show will continue but if you're on YouTube or podcast jump over to the Ramsey Network app you can go download it in the App Store for free or click the link in the show notes and don't miss out what's coming up in the third hour cuz I see some good calls on the board that you don't want to miss out on I was approved for a home loan should I get a home in baby step 2 we'll talk

about that is it better to pay off my mortgage or invest the extra into retirement I don't know that's a cliffhanger you'll have to pop into the app to see what's next this is the ramsy show

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hey what are you still doing here you know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching you can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you

so jump onto the app and let the fun continue all right go on now don't make

it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird over there guys what do we do

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## 222. The Ramsey Show (Replay for March 29, 2024)


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[Applause] [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw this hour the number to call is 8825 5225 don't be scared you jump in

we'll talk about your life and your money that's all we want to do is help you take the right Next Step and maybe talk you off the ledge if you're about to do something stupid that's always a fun call the preventative medicine versus the emergency surgery all right let's kick it off with Maria in Denver Colorado what's going on Maria hi thanks for taking my call um so

I purchased a home from a methodic and

I'm now $33,000 in debt because I had to do remed ation on the home um after I

closed and I just curious how I should

best pay this off and Salvage my credit I did receive a settlement from the owner um after discovering this problem

but um I still have probably 80k and repairs to make to the home and so I'm just curious how I can pay it down and Salvage my credit so how much total debt do you have outside of a mortgage um the 33,000 I don't have any other debt outside of my mortgage how many cards is that across across three cards how much uh how much money are you bringing in every month I'm bringing in about um 4 thou no

probably 5,500 5500 and then what

portion of that is your mortgage

payment 2,800 ypes all right we got got troubles

we got troubles so tell me a little bit more about this did you call it a

remediation yeah so um they had to rip

out the kitchen all the doors all the lighting anything porous anything wood

so I basically bought the home and then they stripped it um I found out two days after closing that did none of this come up in the inspection Dr problem that's my question no yeah none of it came up in the inspection so it come

up I received a police report that I had

requested um two days after closing I had received every other police report and they had some police activity at this property because I did my due diligence and I looked through it uhuh um but I didn't receive the one report that had the previous owner handing over the meth to the police at her home saying she had a problem um until two days after closing I don't know what happened to that one report that held it up but every other report was about a dog or about um so she was cooking meth

in the house no no not cooking just doing this

even at that level you still have to remediate oh my goodness and you said there's still $80,000 of repairs is this related to that or this is just other repairs that you were planning on doing related they stripped the home um

after I purchased it and so I couldn't really go back and

take I I couldn't like undo the loan

essentially I sued her and I got um thankfully I got about 60 Grand back but still there yeah what happened to that 60k so

I have that and that's my my question is how do I pay down like do I pay it all in one lump sum because I'm just worried that if I pay off my debt in one lump sum it's gonna crash my credit more I would not be concerned with your credit right now you got bigger problems and bigger fish to Cy I would knock out all the credit card debt today

the rest becomes your emergency fund and then we cash flow the rest of the repairs okay and so just make the rest of the pairs as on cash as you're able

to on cash yeah okay but leave three to six months of expenses in there for actual emergencies which is not known

repairs okay because we want to avoid you going further into that I don't know why you're concerned about the credit at this point you're not going to go take out more debt are you no no but it just I and you've got listen you've got a you've got a home you're going to make a mortgage payment every single month you're going to be you're going to be just fine

the credit score will settle itself yeah and you're not planning on taking out more credit so no okay you're right you're right that's the only point of having a good credit score is so you can access more debt yeah well I do want to I was planning to start like buying other

homes and you know no no no no we're we're done buying homes right now we need to focus on our s today and we can become real estate Moguls down the line when you have a paid for property and money in the bank to to pay cash well here's the thing Maria we're not and and hear us when we say we're not the point of we're not intentionally trying to tank your credit however George

and I both know that when when you set down the path of paying off debt you're also simultaneously saying not not only am I paying off this debt but I'm not going to borrow money in the future otherwise what's the point of paying off debt just so you can get more and pay it off again that doesn't really make sense so there's kind of this assumption that

if you're paying off your debt if you're working this hard to do that if you're taking this lump sum and you're being diligent in that way you kind of have to think about the future and go okay well if I've done all this work then in the future I'm going to pay cash the same way you're going to pay cash for these other remediations that have to take place in

the same way you know in the future if you do choose to buy real estate you'll save up and pay cash for it even though that sounds like a mountain load of cash it's just good to

kind of draw that Line in the Sand

okay well great then that makes my solution easy just pay it down and yeah work with their remaining cash well I'm equally worried Maria about this mortgage it is 51% of your take-home pay oh yeah well I had two roommates okay so

I'm not it all myself no but are go

ahead George well I'm just there's there's a lot going on here now with the roommate situation yeah are chipping in yeah I want to know can we have some clarity so you own the house are they chipping in at all for any of the repairs tell us you're the landlord so it's on you oh I guess leg true but are you increasing the rent to help cover some of this or what's the deal there no

rent is staying the same with them um

they are helping with repairs like by you know helping come in and actually do the repairs so their time they're paying me with their time right um and that's fine so that's been helpful um and then

also my mortgage lender offered two years refinancing so hopefully if all

goes well you know not predicting the future but if all goes well I'll be able to refinance the rates Dro they're saying we were not going to charge you to refinance exactly interesting the

only thing that makes me worried about this situation is when people own homes

but they can't afford their rent on their own so they have roommates I always like a situation where you can you can float the rent on your own and you can do the mortgage on your own you don't need the roommates for it to you know in order for it to not be dangerous for you and I don't like the fact that this would be dangerous for you if something happened with the roommates that's that's my only red flag on this well I can definitely float the rent myself the so what I told you the

mortgage I guess I should clarify that also includes utilities Insurance all of

the things bundled I have no car debt I have no other debt um my monthly

expenses include phone my cell phone and

that's more or less that outside of food so I can definitely Flo the rent on my own well I'd focus on just knocking out this credit card debt today cut up the cards Don't Look Back use the rest of the emergency fund and cash flow the rest of these repairs do not go into debt ever again and I'm sorry you're going through this crazy goodness gracious these inspectors should I just go become an inspector and be like looks good guys I don't understand how that was missed wow all right this is the

ramsy show

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started

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw the number to call is 8825 5225 well it's time for our long running segment Jade and by long running you mean this is the third time third time okay long for me you know so it's called

pick aide and this is where we have two people on the line and we have to help them kind of settle a debate and you and I at the end of it have to pick a side after we hear them out and hear their case I enjoy this thoroughly I pitch judge George for the name of the segment they didn't like that judge George and I I wanted a little gavl oh well it's a little baby gavl then I'm gonna pitch judge Jade oh dang that's so much cooler

all right I give up here we go let's see

what Jennifer and Joe have to say in Denver Colorado what's going on guys hi

yeah I'm ready to buy a new car and my husband thinks I'm fine with the one that I have wow all right Joe what do you have to say for yourself well I do agree that she needs a new car um she just wants to spend way

too much on a new car want

spend 50,000 W that's a lot of money and

that's the most you guys have ever spent on anything outside of a house I'm guessing yes uh yes okay where are you guys at financially we're on baby step seven paid for house no debt love it and what's your net worth it would be what our house is worth yeah 600,000 plus retirement

700 so not quite a million no okay no

all right and what's the household income 150 approxim year we did

15050 and how much cash do you guys have in the bank we have our emergency fund right now of of 10,000 and I got 10,000 in my

business account so 10,000 and 10,000 if you were to buy this car a is it were

you thinking of getting something brand spanking new and two how are you going to pay for it what's I would want to save up for it okay and I don't necessarily want something new um it's just what I want just came out so I want

to wait a couple of years um until I can

buy one a couple years old what kind of car is it can can you tell us it's the Toyota Grand Highlander Highlander where's John deloney when we need him that's what he ended up getting I need like a picture of a Highlander I I don't really know what that is I'm going to Google it they're beautiful really great cars okay so what is the car you're currently driving I have a 2007 Acura

MDX and it's getting close to 200,000

mil on it oh she's just getting started that's a nice that's a nice MX is Invincible okay love that and what is he driving I'm curious I have a 2004 GMC pickup truck

and then we also have a 2020 Transit

Connect van I'm self-employed and so I use that van for work cool okay might be

time for both of you to upgrade baby step seven living like no one else I'm guessing you guys have a sizable margin in your budget now to save up how much could you throw every single month just to kind of a side savings account oh I think we could have it saved in six months wow yes yeah that's

pretty impressive pretty simple so yeah I mean we could save five six, a month our expenses okay so um tell us Joe why

tell us what you would do if it were your choice obviously we know Jennifer wants this $50,000 Toyota Highlander like L used in your book what's something a little bit more reasonable 30 35,000 maybe not the grand Highlander

but the regular Highlander that's what I'm looking at this one I'm looking at is like 30,000 2023 Highlander Le is

that not the one no I want the grand

High you want the big boy they just came

out in 2024 okay got Joe I'm curious

where where did you get that 35 number from just your heart oh yeah just my

heart yeah I mean I look on Craigslist and you can find the regular Highlanders I see one 30 30,000 miles for 30,000 or

so yeah I see what's going on here okay interesting um all right we have a lot of information here I feel like you know

we've been doing Dave Ramsey's baby steps for a long time I feel like I've been living like nobody else when do I we're on baby step seven when do I get to live like nobody else listen I feel that so tell me when was the last time you did an activity that you would call a live like no one else the ladder that that you like at least a couple of grand where you're like we dropped some money on this we went to the Dominican yeah okay

when was that last month nice okay okay so you

guys are enjoying life yes so we would say you you've driven like no one else now it's time to drive like no one else you've driven the the hoopdee Dave car now it's trying to drive the Dave car you know what I'm saying I've made up my mind I I know what I'm I know how I'm gonna vote it it I got got in a car accident a couple months ago

so it's dinged up on the side man listen you keep playing tell us more she's like really playing up all all these stupid little things don't work on it anymore like you cannot reset my clock so you can't tell what time it is in there Jennifer I call those special features my seat belt doesn't go back listen I got my phone in the car I got my Apple watch in

the car I know what time it is it's fine that's not a big deal but I'm with you here's okay can I vote I know what my vote is are we casting votes I think we're casting votes you guys ready to hear the the verdict let's say it on three all right or the name of the person that we think is right uh yeah say the name of

the person you think is right on three 1 2 3

Jennifer yeah oh my Jennifer you just won a brand new I'm just kidding

Highlander be fantastic a d set from

broy Hill I could be on you think are you shocked no I'm shocked of course Joe is shocked here's the thing because I know this we bought my wife a a new to us car it was a slightly used luxury car and it hurt my

soul Joe to write that check but I also

knew this is part of living the plan it's part of the plan and I have a hard time letting go and writing a big check like that but when you pay for it in cash cash you go oh my gosh that was a lot and then you go this is paid for this is amazing this is a huge blessing and it's why we live like this for

so many years and so I think you guys are doing the right thing just so you know the parameters here you don't want all things with motors and wheels to be more than half of your annual income so that's where I'm going all right 150k is your income everything you own should be 75k listen Joe you could turn around and get yourself a $50,000 car and be all right now what is

this Transit Connect worth um about 20,000 I guess yeah so

even the 20 plus the 50 for hers that would be 70 you still got some wiggle room there yeah not too much but not too

much and you know maybe you wait three years and you get the Highlander but I think you you go for it in two years from now and you get a 2-year-old Grand Highlander and uh if you can't wait that long then just go for a normal Highlander and you can always upgrade later M nothing says you have to drive this car for the next 20 years which is kind of how

you guys have been living right I feel like Joe's really disappointed on this he was waiting no you shouldn't spend more than 30 but I think that will help you guys to go okay half of our income shouldn't be tied up in these things that means we do need to scale back because this Transit plus the car Joe is going to get plus the car Jennifer is going to get it's going to add up to be a large part of our world

and then once you hit millionaire status you can go buy that brand new car and here's why it's not a you know fundamentalist thing it's just that too much of your world would be tied up in a depreciating asset but when you have a million dollar net worth you can stomach that hit on depreciation a little easier and so you guys will be there no time how old are

you two I'm 45

and I'm 56 oh my goodness you got so much time to live and drive like no one else and you know what Joe I think it should be time for you to upgrade after what is your dream car Joe it's a $30,000 car we know that it's the one he's got I actually love my truck he

wants another GMC pickup no he wants to

keep the one he the one I got aming it

it's got an 8ot bed it's got the diesel and I'm good thank you they don't make those 8ot beds anymore all these new pavement princesses out here got the tiniest little beds I'm like what are we even buying pickup trucks for anymore so then Joe real quick tell us if you could spend $330,000 on anything not a vehicle what is your thing like what's your live like no one else thing I would do a boat hey okay there

we go now we got it Joe's in the boat

thank you guys so much for the call and for letting us have some fun excited for you guys to make that cash purchase of that beautiful new to you car very very

soon more of your calls coming up 8825

5225 this is the Ramsey [Music]

Show

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Ramsey

welcome back to the ramsy show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw this hour the number to call is aa825 5225 Springfield Illinois where we're heading next Levi joins us there welcome to the Ramsey Show Levi are you with us

Levi we were so close to getting Levi on

the air well we'll try to get you back Levi I don't know what happened but if we can't um I'm sorry and call back later my friend we're going to go to Taylor up next in oakair Wisconsin Taylor welcome to the show thank you oh my gosh um okay so my

husband and I put in an offer on a house which was accepted right away we had seven days to turn in the earnest money and on day five we decided to

not um do it so we told our realtor right away and we never paid the earnest money um long story short we got married

last August we're now pregnant with a baby in July and we found out last month that my husband who's in the military is deploying this fall for about a year so the reason that we jumped on this house is because we got scared tried to make a decision it would be easier for me to live by myself for a year um and then

after signing it we were like this is not a good idea this is not the house we want so we canceled we never paid the earnest money and now the seller's mad and they want not only the 3,000 of the earnest money but they're asking for $5,000 000 and they're threatening to seek legal counsel I guess if we don't pay and we just don't know what to do so you signed the offer saying that you would and and the

offer said that you would pay ear money

within seven days yes what does the

contract say about getting out of this because generally there's you know a few ways you could legally back out of this and get your earnest money back or not have to pay Home Inspection contingency appraisal contingency financing contingency is any of that in the contract it is but none of that applies of the situation and it I mean it was

just us backing out of it our realtor isn't being very helpful which we feel like is because obviously she's not I think you are on the hook for it though Taylor if you make an off because I literally my husband and I were just in this situation a couple weeks back if you make an offer and then they and and

you work with the agent say here's what we're offering da d d d da they send you the paperwork you sign it you're saying when you sign it you're saying I'm going to pay the earnest money within this many days this is what's going to happen next and this is what's going to happen next you're kind of you signing on the dotted line is committing to the offer in many ways in all the ways so there's

part of me that thinks that you're on the hook for this and you just the fact

that you didn't pay the earnest money doesn't mean that it wasn't due it just meant that you didn't say what what you said you were going to do if the contract said that you would provide the money within 7 to 10 or 5 to 10 business days or whatever it was 5 to seven days

so they what would you do about the $5,000 so because it was originally three and now they want more money yeah where why are they wanting more yeah because are mad about last time and they refused to sign the contract the new one where we said W we're canceling and not paying and they so they're losing time because they won't sign anything um that's up in the air

I feel like that's I mean they could probably fight it in court and fight for that lost time and put a dollar value on that I would see if you can just settle with them for the three and go listen here's all we can do I got a baby on the way my husband's about to be deployed we're in a crazy situation I hate that this happened didn't want

it to go down like this here's your three okay I don't know if there's a legal way you can get out of this without you fighting it and I don't think you guys have the money or time to go to court and fight this no that's the

thing listen I I hate that this happened Taylor but I tell people all the time like that earnest money if you buy the

house it goes towards the down payment but if you don't that's money upfront that you're spending that obviously you have the propensity to lose and that I call it skin in the game money this is shows I'm I'm really serious about you know buying this house and so the other thing you could do which has its own risks of going through with the home inspection and the appraisal and financing and then having one of those things cause an issue to where you back

out but it sounds like these people are angry enough that they're not going to be happy if you back out later on and waste even more of their time yeah okay it's tough so those

that's a road you could go down but I'm telling you you could still end up paying and it still could be messy if it were me I'd take the contract and I would ask around and I'd ask a couple of different real estate agents I'd say like am I on the hook for this am I on the hook for this and see if you can get some free counsel from other agents

if you say that is not helping out much which never use them again by the way yeah um maybe contact a real estate attorney and say and just do a free conso say here's my situation do you think I have any a case here to even fight this or what should I do yeah we're just concerned we don't want this to go on any longer because obviously they're mad about last time

and we tried to cancel as soon as possible but it went on way longer because they're fighting it like we're a

little confused why they wouldn't just want to put their house back on the market but they can't do that until this is like done so they're losing time on

their own so this is it's causing them to hang in the balance here until they get the situation sorted with you guys yeah yeah I mean you've guys you have the 3,000 how much do you guys have in cash about 15 okay yeah I'm going to

label this under kind of a stupid tax and we learn from the mistake and we move on and go that hurt let's not make decisions out of desperation again cuz this is the kind of stuff that will happen Okay so are you guys going to rent for the foreseeable future while your husband's deployed we own a house and we talked about renting or buying

and I hated all the rentals and it just didn't feel like home and so we looked at a house that was closer because we live pretty far out and I mean the interest rate is double what ours is at and we just felt like it would be a big waste of money for us so and why can't you stay where you're at right now I can't it's just it's we're about 25 minutes out from town

so there's not a lot here for me and I feel kind of alone you don't have any family nearby not no and the dayc carees are far like like groceries you

know everything is far away so I just wanted like convenience for myself because it's going to be hard enough but um yeah we don't we're not really willing to pay for it anymore so yeah well if you did move closer to town you might need to you know compromise and settle and go all right this rental is good enough for this season that I'm in so that I can be closer to civilization as I raise this baby while my husband is deployed I mean that's a lot yeah so I feel for you but you know

adding to the chaos of becoming a homeowner I don't know if that's worth it right now yeah especially when you

guys have grand to take care of it by myself we just I just wanted something closer to town so that at least it was easier for me for running errands yeah now that's reasonable and I hope you guys get this real estate situation sorted out but but uh you know I would have other some other people look at the contract get some other opinions but I think at

the end of the day you just settle with them and go I we can do three we can't do the full five and if they want to waste their time coming at you for that I don't know if they have a case first of all but they might have a case but the the question like you said is it worth the brain C calories and time calories to go

after someone and you know judge George Court it's for sure you'll be lucky to even make it to a judge George Court you know but it' be

some small claims situation right there but I'm soor ha this is happening to you

yeah it was a dumb mistake we made but we kind of panicked so well we always say on this show never no one makes good decisions when they're panicked or drunk that's right but you can always go back and try to settle it and see if if they'll take something but yeah I mean I would personally have some pity on a you know a ass soon to be mom husband's getting deployed serving our country I'm going to go like all right

I don't know George because when you're on the other side of it and you've got timelines like you know she was super sweet but I'm thinking about when Sam and I were moving here you have a timeline it's all business and I'm like if don't mess around and make an offer because time is

money when it comes to this stuff and I I was trying to understand what she was saying but I think that um I think the seller I think they have to have this deal closed and wrapped tight before they can legally accept another offer is that what was going on there is that why they were saying that they were losing time I think right now it's contingent

and they can't make it Li and active again until this situation is sorted because this offer is still halfway out there I see that's the issue just remember when buying a house I always say George you need that stacked deck and down payment we know 5 to 20% earnest money that can be up to 1 to 3% of the purchase price it's a lot of money also think keep in mind closing closing costs

if you're going to be the buyer 2 to 5% and then stuff adds up and

then you got moving costs the Reps

inspections moving cost like you said home ownership is no joke so for those of you excited about it make sure you got your ducks in a row before you jump into this this is the Ramsey

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Show hey guys you know this but I'll say it anyway college is freaking expensive

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[Music]

Ramsey

[Applause]

this is the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw we've got a fun

event coming up this May 10th and 11th it's called Total Money Makeover weekend a brand new event where in one weekend you'll get a crash course on everything we teach about money and no matter where you're at in your financial Journey the baby steps this will light a fire under you like nothing else it's going to be interactive lots of q& a we are coming up with some really fun different talks Jade than we've ever done

before trying to spice it up is that what I heard you working on this morning yes okay for those of you Schwarzenegger impression I heard some crazy hilarious things George

it that we're just workshopping we're just we're trying out some stuff these people are in for a treat I I like it it's going to be a blast every single ramsy personality will be on the stage it's it's a two-day event Friday and Saturday May 10th and 11th we've got smart money happy hour on Friday Night Live we love a live audience for that with Rachel and

I so don't wait to get your tickets the Platinum Plus tickets are almost sold out a handful left early bird pricing ends on Thursday of this week so if you're planning on joining us get your tickets now to save up to 100 bucks just go to ramsy solutions.com events and start plugging this into your every dollar budget plan for that Transportation it's a destination event here in Nashville you'll have a great time plan for that Platinum Plus that's gangster

I know I like that we we keep coming up with new tiar just to spice things up ramsy solutions.com vents is the place to go all right let's go back to Levi and Springfield let's see if we can get them on the air Levi are you with us I am thanks for taking thought

you you left me on red bro I got nervous how can we help how are you guys doing good how are you oh not too bad i'

a little bit bit of an issue though okay

um so my wife and I we've been working through bab set number two and we've been making pretty good progress and I just recently discovered that my identity had been stolen a yes and I

guess I'm just looking for some guidance on how to navigate that how bad is

it um I'm not really sure hopefully not

too bad yet um I checked my credit report and there was nothing on there okay that shouldn't be been keeping an eye on my bank accounts and everything seems okay there um what happened was they opened up a credit card in my name and then just a

couple days ago I got three phone bills sent to me for numbers that I do

not own so man that stinks and I've been in your exact shoes Levi this is back in 2013 I had identity theft they opened up two cell phone accounts AT&T Verizon racked up 1,700 bucks on both never paid a dime using my social security number and an old address oh shoot is it similar to you yeah my social security number but they're using my current address that's why I'm getting all

the notices man so have you frozen your credit yet I just did that today okay that's good that's good and did you have a fraud alert placed on all of your credit accounts um no because I haven't been able to speak with AT&T yet um it's

impossible to speak with a human being with them I guess uh anyway I uh filed

the police report yesterday and I want to keep trying to contact AT&T through to them um but the credit card did put a fraud alert the credit card company put a fraud alert on my okay and they revers the charges you won't anything on any of that nope there were no charges on the card I caught it in time okay that's good have you filed a report with the Federal Trade Commission yet on their website FTC no I have not okay I would do that

as well and you've already got the police report so you're going to need that as you submit it to different you know creditors and credit bureaus you might need that okay and outside of that

um make sure you're checking all of your accounts regularly make sure you have a freeze on all three accounts with all three bureaus okay and then beyond that you

want to get any account records from all these if there's a debt collector involved or AT&T get every record you can get that's the thing what if AT&T doesn't cooperate with me on this what steps do I need to take well I mean if you have a police report and you have the FTC report that should be enough to get them to go oh this wasn't him

I mean I don't know how they give you issue or cause you to don't ever pay a dime for any of these accounts gotcha even if it goes to collections this is not your yeah I wasn't planning on paying anything but and then did you already connect your talk to your bank no I haven't spoke to my bank yet okay that'd be my next move when I get off

the phone with us let them know that this has happened because who knows what else they have but I would probably get a new account set up with a new deit carded yeah okay and also contact your

utility providers and let them know do I need to contact do I need to contact the office of Social Security if you think that if you s suspect that they have either your social security card if you suspect that they have your driver's license I'd contact social security I'd

contact the DMV and maybe even you know if you think they might have your passport like only you can suspect what you think's going on here and how you think they got their your information and so you yeah I would I would contact them on their website and see if you can get a replacement okay yeah I know they don't have my physical cards but I don't think

you can open up a phone line without a Social Security number so that's just why I assume they had it yeah they have an office of the Inspector General and I'll send you a we'll send you the blog post that outlines all the steps you need to take I would also update your main passwords and usernames mm M okay and uh for the

future ID Theft Protection is super important to have we have it on every single team member here at Ramsey and ours is through our friends at Xander so it's a it's a like an insurance it's not technically an insurance product but it that will help with all the restoration services that you need to get your life back and it's super cheap like before I came here I think

I paid like 12 bucks a month for now it's I think it's like seven bucks a month yeah for me and my husband um Levi will make sure to send you that the article that outlines all these steps but man the truth is it's just going to take uh some time and effort to get all this sorted out but you're going to be okay yeah I think that that don't lose sleep over

it having that ID Theft Protection is going to be really important going forward because a lot of times once your ID is stolen once it's kind of like that information is out there and it's likely that it can happen again so having somebody who's monitoring it all the time is a big big deal yeah and we'll

hook you up we'll um um with our friends at Xander as well and see what they can do about it after the fact to help you clean this up man so so sorry you're going through this o be sure hey one other thing be sure to monitor your tax return too make sure that they're not trying to get their their paw at that because that is a pain in the you know what to go through y thanks for the call

Levi appreciate it man and for everyone listening out there if you want to check out that blog article that I wrote It's called what to do if your identity is stolen it's on the Ramsey Solutions website and we will put a link in the description and show notes wherever you're listening so you can just scroll down there and click and we'll make sure that Levi gets that as well

but be sure to check out Xander's ID Theft Protection it really is a great way to make sure you're you're covered your family's covered again it's like uh I'm seeing here on their website individual 675 a month 75 a year for a whole family it's 145 a year 12290 a

month and it has been it has saved my bacon uh one or two times when that does happen it's one of those things like home insurance you hope you don't have to use it but goodness when it's there and this this lady at Xander's handling everything for me and I just submit all the paperwork it just gave me a little bit of peace and confidence as I went along my business I've never had my identity stolen I've had a debit card

you know like somebody gets your debit card number and tries to buy Xboxes which is what happened to Sam and I won Christmas Eve but other than that like never the extreme of like they've got my social and they've got my well it's it's almost like a like a home invasion it's just such a invasion of your own privacy

yeah I mean they're stealing from you at the at the most personal level Y and the truth is this happens so often that like rarely are you going to get the I wanted my these people to like go to jail and they're like it doesn't work like that you want to see him taken away in handcuffs and I went full detective I was like I'm going to find out who

these people are my wife was like please don't don't do that you don't know what you're doing you're not John Wick all right you're not this is not going to be some Liam n level you know Revenge story I'm learning that about you George that you really do like to get to the bottom of things I'm thinking about another story you told me I'm a nice guy until I'm not a nice guy

but truly so so funny it is not a fun thing to deal with and so you want to make sure you know with one of these ID Theft Protection Services what they're offering is number one real time identity monitoring instant alerts the recovery work for every type of identity theft and what's really cool recovery of up to a million dollars in stolen funds that's partially what's covered with Identity Theft Protection

so be sure to check it out uh at Ramy solutions.com you can find our Identity Theft Protection help from our friends at Xander that puts this hour of the ramsy show in the books thank you to my co-host Jade warshaw all the folks in the booth we got Skyler Ben Austin Zack

Nathan Bobby all hanging out back there keeping the show AF flat and you America thank you so much for listening we appreciate it we'll be back before you know [Music]

it

[Music]

[Music]

oh [Applause] [Music] live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw it's your show America so call us up at 8825 5225 we'll talk about your life and

your money and we'll tell you the truth even if it hurts your feelings a little bit because we care that deeply Brandon

kicks us off in Fort Wayne Indiana Brandon welcome to the show hey George a big fan of yours thank you I appreciate you guys having me on the show Absolutely came across came across your book and it's changed the way my wife and I view money so that's so cool to hear that's That's the basis of our question um ultimately our question is

whether or not we should go down to one car to pay off our debt wow we have

three cars one of them is a sports car

just a fun toy that's automatically sold but my wife and I are trying to decide should we go down to one car to be out of debt as soon as the car sells or

would that not be smart to do that do you have kids uh yeah we have a one-year-old okay um and I'm a full-time student okay and my wife works full-time okay so and I'm guessing proximity my my mind goes to proximity because when when my husband and I were getting out of debt we went down to a onecar family and we did it because my sister-in-law my sister went down to a onecar family and they did it with two kids so we figured okay we can do this but I do think proximity matters like uh

her being able to drop you off at school you know on her way to work those sorts of things do you see a world where that could take place yeah um it definitely

be kind of hard but she makes her own schedule um and my parents have three cars and there's a chance that we might be able to borrow one of their cars for a month ooh um what would happen in that month um so we

we've literally just started the like the process so all we have is her student loans um but we have about 10,000 set aside that we haven't put towards it yet ,000 cash how much in

total debt uh 28 all right student loans

and between the two cars um based off a Kelly Blue Book we could get 25 so 2500

thousand 25,000 the sports car plus the other car that you're planning on selling great correct so between that plus your cash you have 35k you knock out the student loans you have seven left over right we go purchase a $5,000

car yeah I love this plan but think it's

solid okay I yeah it's just it's a

little nerve-wracking you know having a kid going down to one car um but even if

like my question was even if like we couldn't there's a chance we could borrow the car from my parents but even if not you think it's still smart I think it's really for you to buy for you to drive the $5,000 car for a while uh sorry you're breaking up on us

Brandon I'm sorry just to go down to one car um until we can I mean you could survive that for a few weeks depending on how strong your marriage is I think I could probably make it one week before it starts to tear us apart I I think that and my wife works here by the way let me tell you I'm just being honest I think that people don't consider it and I think that they would be shocked my husband and I were a onec car family for 10 years we started years yes we sold

our car um in 20 2009 Sam when we were getting out of

debt and we stuck to one car and then we

had two kids and we still had one car and when we moved here when I joined Ramsay I we bought our second car wow

yeah it can be done it just requires coordination and it's one of those things that when you first start out it's uncomfortable because you're not used to it but once you figure out your rhythms and your routines it's like yeah matter of fact I got to the point where I was like we don't need a second car and my H you can role play this for the

next week you guys only use one car see how it goes yeah idea as you get the other two listed and just live like that and see how it goes and if it works out keep doing it but either way I'd get that $5,000 card and just have it for now until you or upgrade a little bit later with cash you're going to see savings on insurance too which is great A lot of savings

but all the cars are paid off yeah all the cars paid off the only debt we have is uh is the student loans what's the payments on the student loans uh 2 60 like it's between like five different student loans comes out to like 267 I

think a month oh nice so that I mean right fa that's over three grand that you can put towards your savings goals

right as you free up the payment so I think this is an no-brainer okay I appreciate it yeah you

got it man that's a fun fun call I did not know Jade was a one car family one car family for 10 years wow yeah that's crazy I mean even Whitney working at ramsy I rarely get to commute with her our schedules are just all over the place and now with a baby it's like well you got to go home I got to record but you guys work in the same place George you and I could get like rides from people but I just I'm I'm I feel too guilty being like Hey man can I get a ride again you drive me home after work listen I I would take Uber like every once in a while on the weekend we might have an issue and it's like oh just get an U Uber and I remember my friend Fred would be like why are you ubering just call like we'll drive you like we'll pick you up I'm like no it's I don't want to burden anybody else with it that's my thing we never viewed it as a burden it was just like all right yeah I'll just grab an Uber that's why we need John deloney to be like you're not a burden to your friends text him at 3:00 a.m.

your ride like unless you're

then I I I might help you move if you're in baby St 2 but once you're out of that just hire a mover yeah there's levels to that cuz I'm not moving stairs like an apartment no I'll help you put some things in a box George if a friend

breaks something I'm like oh gosh but if the Mover does it I'm getting that money back yeah you can like yeah get funky fresh you know when my buddy Joe helps me move and he breaks something I'm like well that's thing he was helping for free would I charge the guy so that part's stressful you have to pay them with something even if you're an adult you have to have drinks or pizza or like there's got to be some form of payment

you can't just say come help me move absolutely well I was just reading a consumer reports article which I'm a I'm a paying member now Jade that's how you know I'm getting old George you're different I'm getting all I'm next step AARP is up next but they have a great article because we've been telling people the $5,000 card exists yeah it does and Consumer Reports had an article from February 14th best used cars

and SUVs for less than $5,000 you go and you wouldn't be shocked to hear the brands on here can you guess them Toyota yep uh Nissan nope Ford nope uh I was hoping

you'd hit the major too uh rhymes with

Ronda hondai Honda Honda there we go

Toyota and Honda took the top uh definitely and Lexus was on there too and guess what these cars are 20-year-old cars I believe that you know it's an ' 06 Accord it's the 04 Lexus ES

but you see these on the road4 Avalon 05 cam these are invincible cars these cars will out me 100% Rav 4 a 2001 Tacoma you

see goty in a 2001 Toyota Tacoma he's going he's got work to do

you see a guy in the brand new F250 yeah

that thing has not doesn't have a scratch on it Jade that guy's hauling mulch once a year from Lowe's that's about the only thing he's doing with that you never see like old Volkswagen you never see old Volvos yeah you ever see a Saturn on the road this my guy still holding on if you have a Saturn I'm sorry it's usually like in a Taco Bell drive-thru at 3:00 a.m. like this man has seen some things if he's driving a Saturn around at 3:00 a.m.

show [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George Cel joined by Jade warshaw friendly reminder you can always visit us here at the ramsy solutions worldwide headquarters just south of Nashville Tennessee if you're ever vacationing or you just want a fun trip come through we're uh just about a half hour south of of downtown Nashville we do the show on the glass live you can hang out for all three hours there's a museum timeline wall

the Baker Street Cafe with free baked goods and coffee uh bookstore a lot of fun so make a visit I just we just met a family with custom Cricut shirts they made and the girl shirt said we're on our way to Disney mom made us stop here that's so funny which is thats for the funniest shirt of the day well it's worth noting because sometimes especially if

you watch the show on YouTube it looks like we're like sitting in our chairs really fast and putting in our in ears it's cuz we go out in the lobby and meet everybody hands and all the personalities do that Dave included so it's a fun time we'll sign things take pictures just hang out uh for a moment and it's always a good time so make a trip to Nashville

and stop by and see us why don't you it's time for our question of the day Jade what do we have all right today's question comes from Brandon in Georgia he says I will graduate college debt-free this semester because of an internship I will likely receive a full-time job offer of7 ,000 a year at a reputable company with a lot of room to move up that's good how does someone who leaves college debt-free with a decent income manage their money

when it's their first time on salary I don't have to pay rent or I don't want to have to pay I don't want thank you I don't want to have to pay rent or get a car with debt while also having to save money for retirement at the same time my biggest fear is wasting money renting before I feel I'm financially capable to take on buying or morg moring a home what's your advice

I I love this I think this guy is just now getting started he's got a nice career setup for himself the first step is to get on a budget like that's Numero Uno if you don't have an every dollar budget you need to down one today the free version's amazing but the premium version is even better so I'd say that that'd be his first thing um he says

I don't want to have to pay rent or get a car with debt so my next

piece of advice is don't you know over here we just say that we live a debt-free lifestyle and we draw Line in the Sand and we don't borrow money so for you the next thing is to probably use that great income to start saving up for a car and to answer your question about renting I would rent for the time being I'd get a couple of Roommates could a get a couple of guys and just get used to living that adult lifestyle

right you're getting up you're going to work every morning you're saving up for a car you're on a budget start getting your your your confidence built that you can live on what you make and then at the right time I would look at buying a home I'd make sure that I have the right down payment in an area that's right for you with your job and I would not look

at renting as a negative because I feel like here you're kind of feeling that renting is a negative and I it's not it's just buying you time until you can afford to buy a house the right way and that's truly what it is George yeah I'm just exhausted by this narrative that society and parents are telling young people which is renting is a sin it's a waste of money

you better get in a home as soon as possible and I get the heart behind it it's well meaning yeah but then it creates this and it means people jump out of college at 22 and they're like I need to buy a house even though I'm not ready now luckily our friend Brandon has no debt making 70k a year that blows my mind I wasn't making half of that

when I got my first job out of college and I moved to Nashville and what do you do you get some roommates you get some side hustles and so I I think that's a a smart move be ready for the first month deposit last month rent whatever that is uh be ready for that financially so I would save up ACH of cash and maybe work part so that

when

you graduate even before that first paycheck hits you're ready to make the move and go rent somewhere with some roommates and renting to George to your point it does get a bad stigma and it's not it it it's not a bad thing my husband and I rented for over 10 years

before we bought a house and our situation was different we were trying to pay off almost half a million dollars of debt but in many ways I can liken it to what's going on right now because the housing market is so expensive that people feel like I'm never quote I'm never going to be able to buy a house and I'm like you will be able to instead of

it taking 3 years or four years it could take six or seven or seven or eight or eight or nine or 10 like there is part of this that I just want people to feel encourag that just because a journey takes longer doesn't mean you won't make it to the finish line and doesn't mean it's not worth it uh to rent until you get there amen and last thing I'll say Brandon

if you're listening and I hope you are is when you go from making nothing to making $70,000 the life hack is to keep living like you make nothing keep living on less than you make if you can learn to live off of 20 grand when you make 70 you're going to be unbelievably wealthy but for most people they just fill in the Gap they make 70 we're just going to spend to 70

and or they spend 80 that's

the American story right there and so if you can avoid that avoid lifestyle creep avoid the comparison culture and lifestyle you're going to be just fine my friend so great question love that for any young person that's listening someone about to graduate send them this call it could change everything all right let's get to the phone lines Philadelphia is up next Angela joins us there welcome Angela Hi how are

you doing well thank you for having me on the on the show Absolutely what's going on today so my my question is around student loans and emergency funds so I I'm older I have a

pretty decent salary um I contribute to

my 401ks I have brokerage accounts and

my issue is my mentality around um

dumping all of my emergency fund into my student loans so I have exactly the amount to pay off my student loan in my emergency fund but I am terrified to start over again how old are you building that emergency uh 41 and how many how much do you have in student loans $50,000 50,000 let me tell you

what's terrifying having $50,000 in student loans decades after you graduated when did you graduate so so this is from grad school and so that would be like 10 years ago girl listen I

I have two ways that I like explaining this one is just math math it's really

just the math for me because if you think that you have balance sheet yeah if you if you say that you have $50,000 and that's what's keeping you warm at night the math would differ and and it would disagree with you because technically that you owe that whether you admit it or not you owe it to I know you know so there's that piece of it i al yeah

but I'm worried about um like if something were to happen with my house where I literally need like $5,000 for something or so how much do you make every month um about seven I probably bring

home about seven and is it just you yes

it's just me okay and how much was your student loan payment um so last year I really after

like just really getting into my finances and make and just making sure that I'm like doing what I'm supposed to do I really I up the pain so right now my student loan payment is actually it's this isn't something I chose it's $1,500 a month CU I can afford that so I really am trying to knock it out but I'm like do I just say this three to five year course that

they have me on or do I Angela the whole point that I'm trying to make to you is you make $7,000 a month it's just you your student loan payment alone that you've chosen to pay is$ 1,500 which means this off how

quickly could you pay could you save up $5,000 and get that cushion back under you that you want yeah that's fair yep that's fair you'd save it so quickly plus I'm guessing there's probably if you wanted to get really intense I know there's more margin somewhere in the $7,000 that you could stack that up even faster right now you're living in the way I like to describe

this it's like the student loan house like on the on the inside it's like modern and beautiful and the payment's not that much and you know you've got 50,000 saved and you just think that there's like this beautiful landscape in front of you but the minute you open up the door you're like on a cliff and like be

like it's just you're one false move is and you're falling off a cliff and the Sun is burning you up and it's just like Doomsday out there and as long as you stay in the house you're fine but your body knows that you're in danger and that you're on this cliff and as John

delone says all the time your body keeps Theo the score and so I really do think that there's a toll that we pay mentally

and psychologically and physically inside of our bodies for having this debt yeah and it is definitely more of a

mental toll because I I've worked so hard I'm just like oh I could just pay this off but also it's like but then you will have nothing I will have nothing I think that's a lie that your brain is telling yourself you will have something you'll have your income back and you'll have savings the same savings that you had in a matter of a few short months

if you get after it you'll be there you stack up the money you're putting toward the payment in an emergency fund with your amazing income and how much do you have in the brokerage account um I well I have some a 401k but

I think my brokerage has about $880,000 now oh my goodness you're good you're fine this is paranoia if you don't pay this off today we're so proud of you this is the ramsy

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apply this is the Ramsay show if you like what you're hear please consider subscribing leaving a review or hitting the follow button sharing it with a friend maybe a text a link whatever it is we appreciate it you guys are the best marketing plan we have out there and we so appreciate the millions of you that listen Faithfully every week and you tell your friends about it

and they add it to their repertoire of podcasts or shows or YouTube and all of a sudden you know life change starts happening and they start getting excited about what could be with their money situation and it all could start with you so thank you guys so much for sharing the show Dakota is up next in Phoenix Arizona Dakota what is happening hey guys thank you for having me on um

so I have about $60,000 worth

of debt and I was hoping to get some guidance from you guys on where I should go next okay what kind of debt is this

so I have two car loans a car for myself and my wife that total just uh about

$30,000 and I have have uh a business

that my business partner walked out on so I'm owing him the rest of that money debt as well so $30,000 a him like a buyout from the business exactly yes

that's 30k what's the arrangement for that 30k um so I I work in an industry that

the monthly income varies just a little bit so I have the we way to pay either 500 or $2,000 a month obviously I'm

trying to get it done as quick as possible but it's hard to with the varying income interesting so what do you bring in every month not just you but your wife as well so we bring in anywhere from $6,000

to $8,000 a month okay and um these cars

so you said together they're worth 30k can you split them out for me so I can yes I have a Toyota Tacoma 2019

that's uh $20,000 uh and then uh she just got a

new uh not new but it's a used Hyundai

Elantra a 2019 as well I think there's $14,000 on that okay so 34 between the

two if you were to sell the $20,000 car

would it bring anything you upside down $10,000 I have

like $10,000 in equity in it right now okay I might consider getting out of one of these car notes especially since you've got you could get something for one of them yeah and my only hesitation about doing that is I I live in Arizona but I work in California and I just want to make sure that reliable transportation to get there well you said if you sold it it'd bring 10,000 yes is that's what you would net so it's worth 30 you ow 20 yeah that's

that's private I probably get a little bit less selling it to a dealership some

so there's some money there to get a reliable vehicle and if I mean think about it your your wife's vehicle is only 4,000 more so if you were to if you were really up against it you guys could switch for a little while until you get right side up on this debt yeah luckily she works from home but I just feel bad leaving her out here without a car my parents aren't exact no you'd be getting a $10,000 car oh oh I

got you yeah okay that that makes lot more sense yeah yeah what kind of business are you in uh I own a tattoo shop okay and you travel for

that yeah yeah so the shop luckily it it pays for itself the shop uh I mean it so the shop itself has a savings as well but I just don't want to touch that just in case something does happen I know have to replace the floor soon and right all that I've never really had this much de my life so I'm a little bit uh anxious to say

the least no I you have no savings for yourself uh we have a personal savings of somewhere around three or $4,000 okay but I've literally emptied my bank account um I mean I I have some other like Investments like somewhere around like $8,000 with a precious metal that I boled with the company but like that's about it well I'm getting rid of that yeah I probably dump

the precious metal and take 3,000 from your Pile in savings and go get yourself a reliable car with cash after you sell yours and

what's your payment on that uh my monthly payment on my truck is $600 a month probably $800 total with insurance so you'll free up that money as soon as you sell this thing yeah which is going to add a whole bunch to your income every month which will help you get rid of the business debt and get rid of her car loan and so you can see how

this thing snowballs yeah yeah I'm just I'm so anxious not to have like that Security net you know because that's all the cash I have and I don't want to touch the business Security net you got $64,000 in

debt that makes me anxious yeah that too not a Ply savings

account yeah yeah true so I'm getting rid of the precious metals I'm cashing out on that you'll be lucky to get I mean precious metals aren't a great quote investment so you'll be lucky to get out of that what you put into it what' you say it was 8,000 yeah listen you take that money

you take 3,000 and you you're I mean you're almost out of this car note with your wife you sell your car you take that 10,000 buy yourself something in cash this is happening really quickly with the cars and then you've got you're on the hook for 30,000 and then with that you freed up $600 from your car note how much is her car note uh I think it's like 270 a month

okay so you said with insurance six S8 so you've got an extra thousand that you're going to bring to the table relatively soon to pay off this

30,000 okay that's not bad so I would

set an aggressive goal that scares you just a little bit where you're like all right by this date I will be completely debt free if I just commit to this plan okay what do you think a reasonable like like like four five months like that Intense or once you have the 30k left for the business debt then go all right I can put uh you know 4K a month towards

this and be done in seven and a half months and so it depends on when you make your budget using every dollar that will show you exactly how much margin you should have if you follow the budget Okay cool so it's it's going to be you know a few months where you're like we can't go out to eat we got to cut some subscriptions we got to sell things laying around that have been collecting dust some old tattoo shop equipment

we no longer use and let the fact you let the fact that you only have $1,000 saved be the thing that just lights the fire under your butt to get to to keep going intensely at this right like you said it makes you feel like you're out there to only have $1,000 saved and it should it should make you feel like holy moly I got to get my life together yeah no doubt

and you're you're a tattoo artist I assume yes that's correct so can you make any ex ra side money oh no I mean I'm sure once I get the business you know or I get the rid of the car payment one or the other I'll be able to throw some extra income from the business towards that loan as well but but could you open let's say Sunday afternoons I'm going to do some extra hours oh yeah yeah right now I'm working five days a week uh

but I try to come home as often as I can to see my wife because uh I only get to see her maybe five days every two weeks because of the split between the business partner and all that you know I was supposed to be two weeks on two weeks off yeah I'd figure out way to create a more stable life where you're not having to travel as much yeah yeah that should be part of

this part of this getting Financial stability is how do I just change my lifestyle yeah what does it just look what does it look like to do tattoos in your area and to uh I mean I'm I'm so

sorry go ahead that's okay uh I mean we stay pretty busy as a

shop um I make $150 an hour and I typically do two tattoos a day um but obviously with economic slowing things have Tak a little little uh step back

unfortunately nobody has stimulus checks anymore so it's not as busy as it was but yeah I see what you're saying so for me that looks like uh understanding okay

how long am I going to let myself be in a situation where I'm not making enough to make a living and what can you do in the meantime to fill in that Gap are you investing at all right now uh my my precious metals were the only investment that I really had okay I would pause all investing until you get this debt cleaned up once you have

the debt cleaned up then we have to build a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses so if your expenses are $4,000 a month let's call six months you need 24 Grand in that account so that you have a force field between you and life and then you never have to touch debt again yeah because I know the the shop has at least like four or five months uh where

I could operate just on savings alone and then add is my personal stuff I maybe have like one or two months good between everything I have but yeah okay yeah the similarities between your personal life and business are are strong where you go all right if I can run this thing debt free with a pile of money in the bank to protect me it's going to be a lot more peaceful

I still had questions cuz he's got he's got the shop but he's traveling is he just traveling to do individual tattoos for Dakota uh singular tell me if I'm wrong but you're going to the other shop to do tattoos uh no when I'm when I'm out in Arizona I was just spending time with my wife uh and then uh when I go back home I I work

so the shop is not near your wife so there's the problem we need to move your family to where your work is that's what we need to be looking at in the future how far away are they uh it's about 4 hours goodness gracious why not just start can you start a shop right by your house uh unfortunately not most of my clients tell that I built

I I've had to in California for 10 years now and starting over sitting around waiting dude time to build some new clientele this is not a life that's sustainable man thanks for the call this is the ramsy [Music]

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw

reminder that we've got some great shows on the Ramsey Network when you're done with this one so check them out at our website ramsy solutions.com we've got the Rachel Cruz Show Ken Coleman show Dr John deloney show I've got a smart money happy hour with Rachel Cruz that's a fun one we're recording right after we're done with this show so that'll be a good time and then a YouTube channel that

I launched less than a year ago that's gone gangbuster so check it all out we have no shortage of content you can't you can't point at us and go those Ramy people just not enough no it's a wide variety hours a day and uh Jade will soon one day hopefully have a show I can't wait to see what it is listen I got a gleam in my eyes just let me be a guest that's all

I ask for of course hey I'm going to be on your show remember the little people that's right jade made an appearance on uh the George Campell YouTube channel people loved it right right all right let's go to the phone lines Frederick joins us in San Diego what's going on Frederick hi guys um thanks for having me I I purchased a home in 2021 for

500,000 with a 2.5 interest rate and

it's now appreciated to 750,000 I'm thinking about selling it

and getting a bigger home because my family's growing aha okay how many bedrooms is your current home uh it's three bed and two and a half bath and we have our second child actually due this week probably today or tomorrow actually whoa that's exciting yeah yeah very exciting

um and just thinking about getting into a four bedroom my wife and I are hybrid workers so things are getting a little cramped here and our backyard's a little small so just just think about taking that Equity rolling it into a house a little bit more North and getting more house what would that do um have you ran

the numbers out as far as monthly

payment and what percentage of your monthly payment it might be um so looking at the houses if if we

to do $750,000 house roll the equity in we still owe right around the same uh but the interest rates being like 6.5 to 7.5% now my monthly payment would go up maybe like 300 bucks which isn't like is

that a 30 year or a 15 that's a 30 I know you guys love

15 got him well what would it look like

since you guys are making this move anyways to to move to that 15year would that be what percentage of your income would that be of your take-home pay oh man I I haven't done the math to be honest on the 15 I'd crunch it and it's not to be a

rule follower I just I think the goal should not just be to upgrade an home but to be completely debt free and own that home outright and the fastest way to do that and the cheaper way to do that is with a 15-year not in payment but as far as what you'll pay in interest the interest rate will likely be lower and so I think long term you'll be grateful

you did that as long as you guys are in a good Financial spot do you have no debt with an emergency fund uh we have an emergency fund uh but we do have two cars that oh uh oh this

this equation is getting worse and worse

Frederick are you regretting the call no I really do think that you know

what George and I are saying we just want to set you up for Success financially so I would look into paying these cars before we make that move and get under an even more stable Financial footing and then I would not upgrade house unless I was also willing to upgrade to a 15-year fixed rate mortgage which for you is let's be honest that's going to feel very it's going to feel like Whiplash

because you're used to having that lower mortgage monthly payment you're looking at the monthly payment and we're all about like you said George paying this thing off in the long haul when we look at a car we never go well what's the lowest payment that's broke people talk people go well what is the total cost of the car and can I afford it and so obviously we don't yell at

you for the 15year fixed mortgage but I think uh you know looking at what it would take to get rid of these cars and what's in your emergency fund that would be a good first step so how much are the car loans total uh so the we have two vehicles um

I think total we owe right around 65 and

what's your household income um I make a 100 and my wife makes right around 90 awesome so we have a great income but we got a lot of car man that's a lot of payment is that 1,000 bucks a month in payments at least yeah yeah we're we're pretty much right there the other caveat to this I was thinking is I could rent out my house and then just I don't think

so that's a lot of risk and stress in my book taking on two mortgages and hoping that it all works out perfectly uh we've taken that call where it doesn't work out perfectly and so that's why we steer people away from that one what does it look like for you guys I'm just looking at what you said you have a $500,000 house it's three bedroom two and a half bath and you're about to have your second child correct okay so one bedroom

is for you your two kids share a bedroom and you've got a bedroom that's an office that's is that the plan right but my wife my wife also works from home too so it's just okay so then that means somebody's in the living room or someone's in the you guys are having work in the laundry room I yeah exactly

I I personally and this is you know you're a grown man you'll go away and do what you feel but I personally would not

I've had two 15-year fixed rate mortgages and I'm astonished how quickly

you pay it off because of how much of the payment is going towards in uh the principal as oppos to interest every month and I think that you'll just be

blown away you do that for the first time likely six figures Less in interest on the 15E versus the 30-y year when you crunch the numbers and that will make you want to throw up seeing how much money you're throwing away to the lender to bless them so that's another reason I look at that but Frederick you told me at 15E man that'd be tight and I'm going well if you freed up the ,000 from the car payments that 15year payment wouldn't seem so scary would it no definitely be probably way more

reasonable and that's where I go like I think you guys can do the 50 you make 190 I think it's reasonable to to do that 15 year but we need to get rid of these cars and if that means we got to sell them and downgrade for now I mean if you have enough equity and you can have some net profit out of this it might not be a bad idea how much do you have in the emergency fund uh we have right around three months worth um so I think we have close

to 20 20,000 right now okay what do you

think you'd get for these cars you think You' get 65 or 70 or 75 uh well so we would probably be under

on the cars just because it was a and we purchased them brand new that was the they depreciate the fastest when they're brand new yeah okay well I mean with our

parameters there's nothing wrong with keeping these cars but I think it's holding you back from that next step which you told me you urgently want to get into a house and you got the the new baby to me the baby trumps the fancy car and therefore I might still consider selling those cars and purchasing something with cash even if you can get what you put into it

and you use 19 out of your 20 in savings to go get you two cheaper cars you both work at home not a ton of travel happening that might be the move so that you can get into that house faster I think so and honestly like I'm just looking at numbers if you're looking at a $700,000 house that's what you're looking at right and you're putting the 250 down that you're getting from

the sale of the other house you're rolling it all over right yep okay 15year fixed rate I don't

know what your mortgage rates you know I don't know what the rates are and everything taxes and everything but I'm looking at Tennessee 6.7 6.7% mortgage

rate taxes fees it puts you at 4,900 a

month and I'm looking at what you said 190k is your gross yeah what's your current

mortgage Uh current mortgage I'm paying 3,300 a month now you say it would go up to about 4,100 on a

30-year right around yeah I think it was like 3900 was going to be the and this puts you at 4,900 so more and that's

exactly what your car payments are if not a little less and so I think this is very doable but we just have to trade in paying lenders for these cars into let's build equity and get this house paid off that's the tradeoff and that's a worthy

tradeoff okay all right thank you guys absolutely thanks for the call man I hope you do it because I I'm excited I get excited when I see people trade in the payments they were making we say you know if you want to do interest right wealthy people earn interest broke people pay interest that's a big difference and so when you get rid of those payments you free up $1,000 for most people it's more than that

when you add up all of the debt payment in their life and instead you use that to build wealth and pay off the house and invest the numbers start to just Boggle your mind the mind yeah that's so true and if you don't believe me go on ramsy solutions.com use our free investment calculator and add up what your debt payments are and put that as the monthly contribution

and do that from your age up to 62 65 oh mind's blown 8 to 10%

return thank me later you'll be like oh my gosh let's pay off the debt today honey we could be bajillionaires yeah it's so worth it I'm just thinking about owning a house in 15 years as opposed to 30 absolutely you know don't give yourself wigg that's what we here well you got to give yourself wiggle room uh-uh we got the emergency fund get out of here with that wiggle room miss me with that this is the ramsy [Music]

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[Applause] [Music] live from the headquarters of RAM Ramy Solutions it's the ramsy show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create amazing relationships I'm George Campbell joined by Jade warshaw this is your show America give us a call at 8825 5225 you can't text us you can't

tweet us you can't X us you can't Tik Tock us you got to call the number with your handy dandy phone it still makes calls I found out it does still do it's not just an internet although I'll be honest I don't like when I get calls now unless it's from my mom or my wife or Grandma I don't pick up yeah don't call me and definitely don't call me and then text me call me after you've called me

wow I don't like I didn't know Jade felt

that way but now we Knowle 8825

5225 Malaysia kicks us off in San

Antonio what's going on Malaysia hi guys um so my husband and I

are about over $100,000 in debt and uh

we have a baby on the way and all kinds of debt just kind of overwhelmed and don't know where to start what kind of debt do you have can you list it out for us um so about 40,000 in credit cards um

20,000 in student loans which um haven't

kicking yet because I'm still currently in school okay um so I haven't started paying on those yet when do you graduate um he uh next 2025 okay keep going and

then um he has a truck we're both small business business owner so he has a truck that he uses he does General Contracting that's 35,000 he just got um

6 months ago and then we have a Mazda that we're about to finish paying off that's 2,000 left on that I have a Jeep that's 25,000 and then with his business um he

kind of fell behind in paying the taxes

so from 2022 he owes the IRS about 5,000

on that and then this past year he is going to have to pay taxes you know at the end of the year because he didn't pay throughout the year and then with um

what is it the um insurance we make too

much to qualify for Medicaid so we have to pay for the health insurance and then the max do pocket for the um delivery is

going to end up costing us about $9,000 okay that's your max out of pocket okay good so we got well over H 100,000 yeah okay I'm getting I'm

getting rid of every car on this list that's what I'm looking at except for that one that you got 000 paid off I don't believe that he needs a $35,000 truck to do general contractor work no

way do agree or disagree

Malaysia I do agree um he was he was

actually using the Mazda prior so that's

why we ended up getting the jeep is because the Mazda is like kind of trashed out at this point yeah it has a lot of miles on it he like ran it into the ground and then he's like okay I need I need to get actual work truck okay but he didn't need to spend 35,000 let's be honest about that and he didn't need to go 35,000 into debt mhm yeah so

some of this we can clean up some of it we have to crawl out of what did you spend $440,000 on with the credit cards um that was a crud over years um

just like a bunch of different things I used to have a RV and I ended up putting

it down payment on the credit cards and then I sold but then I still ping off the credit cards and then when we got engaged we bought the ring with credit cards just a bunch of stuff I can we both agree that your life is stressful and that you guys work too hard to live this Insanity yes absolutely what are you earning what are the two of you earning tell me yours and tell me his please so

my business I just started like maybe less than a year like maybe six to eight months ago so I'm trying to still figure out the numbers um but no no no no no

that's an excuse what have you been earning on average when you take all the average months together and average them out what would you say that you earn what are you paying yourself um maybe like 2,000 a month

okay and what about your husband um his varies as

well um it's just it's hard to say you didn't said no it's not what did he make last month um so it's been slow because it's like winter time still but we're start it's starting to warm up and pick up a little bit more um neither of you should be running a business if you don't know how much you made last month last month he made about 5,000 okay here's what

I think's going on um and I'm just going to call a spade a spade I'm glad you called we want to help you but when I ask somebody how much their business made and they go ah it's cuz in that moment you're realizing I'm this is this is part-time or this is a hobby because you're realizing in that moment that although you're passionate about it it's not making enough to sustain your household

and I think with your business as much as you love it and as much as a it's a passion right now you're making $24,000 a year before taxes and so it's it's not a business

yet it's something that you're good at and it's something you love but as long as you're making 2,000 bucks a month you got to have a full-time job on top of that this right now this is the side hustle and you've got to add another job what do you a school for

um so it's like multidisciplinary studies which is focusing in business communication and health and what's that going to do for you as far as your career well because I have my business and I feel like it's a good backing

towards me being in business myself like I've been learning a lot more um taking

the classes that I have been taking and then the communication behind it because I'm like you know the person running everything I'm learning about was now the time to go get go into student loan debt to get this degree I had started that prior I've been like doing that along the way and I'm just kind of like I want to finish and get my degree because I because I went to um I get my associates and I was

like well I just want to finish and get my bachelor so what's the plan you told me you graduate in 2025 what's the plan to pay for school from now until then for the next year

um just like I don't know just kind of

yeah you do got us here I got to call this out you got to stop saying you don't know because you do know you just don't want to say you know that you were planning on taking out student loans the same way that you knew that your pay wasn't enough to qualify as a full-time job and the same way that you know that your husband's pay is not enough to qualify as a full-time job don't say

you don't know because we can't solve the problem unless we are willing to look at it and go this is the problem say it out loud and then you know the problem right now is debt and not only debt but you guys have not decided to stop going into debt yet cuz you've still decided I'm going to take on debt to go you know to finish my education

so let's just be honest about it we're not mad at you we just want to be honest because we can't help you unless we're honest and the same thing with your income you guys have got to bring in more money because here's the thing if you choose to keep borrowing money that income better be on it cuz who's going to make the payments

right so what we want is to get you to a point where you're not borrowing money you're you're paying off your existing debt and you're using your income that is increasing over time in order to do that when does the baby do okay um

September okay right now we're in stor mode we got to save up cash because you guys have none of it and we need to make sure that we can cash flow all these medical expenses so we don't go further into debt in the meantime I'm looking into selling all these cars and getting whatever we can get with cash to get us by until then I want this baby to grow up in a debt-free home that is not filled with chaos

and I don't know that I can say that right now because it feels like your life is going to be chaos unless we make some drastic changes yeah and start paying your taxes quarterly estimated payments to the IRS there's no need for this to be a surprise every single April that we're going to be $5,000 in debt to the IRS we don't want that thanks for the call Malaysia

this is the Ramsey

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George camel joined by Jade warshaw let's face it guys taxes are confusing and uh they're no fun and if you buy into some of the tax service ads out there you'll believe you'll never get a grasp on taxes and you shouldn't even try or maybe even worse they suck you into offers that won't help you in with money but we think you deserve the truth around here so here's today's tax tip are you ready a tax refund is not a

bonus it's not sorry to burst your tax

bubble there Jade it's a refund meaning

it was your money all along and you earn that money you just happen to loan it to Uncle am interest free because of of your generosity wow so if you get a big tax refund sure you can have some fun with it and spend it and go on a vacation and buy stuff you don't need or

you could I don't know make sure that you advance your financial Journey there you go and uh apply it to your next baby step that's the smart thing to do so here's what you need to do adjust your paycheck withholdings if you keep getting these big refunds so this doesn't happen again you want to get as close to zero so people that are like I owed $7 I'm like that's a win celebrate yeah

I got a refund of $4 that's a win let's celebrate that means you're doing it right so if you haven't already filed make sure you work with a service you can trust if you've got a complicated tax situation get a ramsy trusted tax Pro on your side and if you're comfortable filing on your own with the software out there check out Ramsey smart tax it's not like

the other guys Jade it's low upfront pricing no hidden fees no agendas we're not going to bait and switch you at the end because you had an extra form right it's exactly what we say it's going to do do and it's exactly how much you think you were going to pay so go to ramsy solutions.com tax and we can help you figure out what situation is best for

you that's Rams solutions.com tax it's a

lot of money on the table for some people that is have you got your taxes done yet uh yeah there everything's turned in and just waiting to hear you know that that magic number did we make it did we do it that's right think about it though think about the tax returns you've gotten in the past and divide it by 12 and essentially that's the money that

you would receive back into your monthly flow which is so if you get a six grand refund that just means you need 500 bucks back in your life every month that the government hung on to that's a raise especially when everyone's feeling like money's tight I'm like but you're cheering about your refund I don't think people realize that it's their money all along yeah I think they think it's

the government giving them remind me that old commercial it's my money and I want it now yeah good job George that's J G Wentworth JG Wentworth I love still around good for them holding it down JG all right Matthew's up next in Raleigh North Carolina Matthew how can we help you today yeah I'm Matthew Davis I'm pleasure to talk to youall online um so

I'm 43 years old um I've been in working

in law enforcement for the last 20 years my wife I'm married and have a wife and two kids I have a 12-year-old daughter and a six-year-old daughter um I'm completely debt free and

have been for the last six months including my house that's awesome wow

um so my question is um with pinion

plans um I got about eight and a half years to I can fully retire um and my pension will be at

least $5,500 a month um at my current

Pace right now it'll probably be higher than that okay but um

so how does that factor

into my retirement like my 401k

because I'm currently saving um substantial amount of money because basically after I paid off all my debt I just kicked it in overdrive with savings and everything what's your nest egg um So currently I have my wife has 2

401K I have 135 in my 401k okay um the

Roth R we have she has 135 I have about

18 or uh excuse me 8,000 in my R okay um

we have 75,000 in just savings accounts

okay so is the question you said in eight years you'll be able to retire from law enforcement so that puts you at

51 yeah it should be 51 52 and what's

the plan after that when you stop law enforcement to go get another job okay so something that I don't have to work nights and weekends and uh that'll be more on my schedule but you know I plan to keep working till I'm at least 60 60 between 60 and 65 I what's your household used to earning um my wife currently makes about

93 I'm my base is 94 um I work substantial amount of extra

Duty um our last year we made 247,000

okay awesome and what's that Translate two monthly um I don't know that number um

so it's it varies because some months I

work more uh off duty than other months but roughly what's round number like 15 grand a month ends up in your bank account or what yeah that sounds about right okay so what's your we got a good Financial snapshot here so what's your what's your overarching question so my overarching question is like I feel like I have to keep working 80 hours a week in order to keep living the lifestyle that we're living um and it's not just like like to keep saving at the the rate

and I don't know if the the saving at the same rate that I'm saving at currently is completely necessary with the pinching plan that I do have or if

I'm just kind of working extra just to build a nest egg and I'm losing out on time with my family a little bit well I would crunch the numbers using you know we have an investment calculator on our website and go all right I got we have this much in our 401ks and IAS if we contribute this much per month even at a very conservative you know average return of let's say 8% how much would we have by 51 or 65 or whenever you plan to

keep working and that will help you get a full picture of pension plus this amount on investments if we pulled this percentage jof each year we could live off of this but it sounds like you guys have a pretty hefty lifestyle even with your Hefty how far are you from paying your home off you said it's paid off yeah my house it's paid off so I'm wondering where all this 15 grand is going every month um basically into savings like

we're putting like I'm putting 23,000 a year into my 401k my wife's putting 19,000 and her 401K okay we're maxing

out our Roth um and then 247 sounds like

a lot but when you have taxes that come out of that you know there's a lot of taxes that come involved that's true

what percent monthly expending is about 2500 a month just in bills like as far as cell phones groceries power taxes Insurance stuff like that have you looked can you tell me what percentage of your income is going every month towards investing my guess it's about 20 something percent it's about 28 to 30%

okay here's the thing um We call we would call that you're on baby step 7even and at

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when you're 51 so you're still going to have an income that's still money that you have the ability to put 15 plus percentage of a away in retirement and

you know A good rule of thumb I think that you should work with an investment professional But A good rule of thumb George is if you can live off the interest that your nest egg is generating plus your pension plus your Social Security obviously you could account for inflation at some point in there but that's a good place to start so if you retire and by the re time you retire you've got $700,000 you've been making a 10% rate of return you have to ask yourself okay that's $770,000 a year plus my pension

plus my wife's if she has anything and then plus your social security so that's just a very broad way to look at it but work with an investment professional and get yourself some peace of mind that's the key that sounds great don't freak out about it man you're on the right track it may be time to dial back a little bit and enjoy the fruits of your labor this is the Ramsey Show

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[Music] welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm George Campell joined by Jade warshaw and we've got a special guest on the debt free stage Jaden joins us from Frederick Maryland how are you Jaden I'm so good I'm so excited to be here thanks for making the trip yeah it's it's quite a trip I'm excited and you're here because you're Deb free and we're celebrating I am yes it's been a few months

so luckily I've had a little bit of an experience with it but yeah it it feels so good fresh it's still fresh it is still fresh we can hear it in your voice you're still excited know I'm so excited it's crazy to be here you know on the other side of it you look for so long and you just wait you work really hard and yeah it's here

and you made it through it's very difficult to get on the debt free stage uh we get thousands of applications a year and we we only take the best so you you are the best apparently my gosh I wasn't at first so

the reason made second was pretty intense yeah I made it the second time yeah wow well how much have you paid off I paid off just under $132,000 wow all student loans let's go that's

amazing how long did that take uh just under 15 months w wow okay what was your range of income during that time I started at $441,500 which was crazy and

almost all of them were private student loans through Sally May so I looked at um the amount that I was going to be paying and I was like oh my gosh there's no way I can do it um called the people who I knew had were good with money they had been through financial peace and yeah then eventually sorry I'm going through the whole story already but wow you start Inc up from 41 yes 112,000

that's an approximate yeah wow what did you study um I have a bachelor's degree

in international relations in Spanish and a minor in history so liberal arts I'm working on studying for my elet to go to law school for free so that is that's cool what are you doing now for work I'm a a legal assistant I do paralal work AES you're in the legal field that's exciting Good Field and you paid off all of those loans and 15 months are the numbers adding up for me okay so there is one small detail um so

I was living with my uncle and my aunt who had previously went through financial piece um and they actually gifted me $199,500 to pay off my Federal

loans which awesome amazing yeah they were more than helpful I can't even express how thankful I am that's awesome and the rest was just hustle and grind how'd you do it hle grind yeah I served I um went to work during the day my work I work for an intellectual property firm so it's a lot of over time if you get in applications that are Urgent um

and then so I was able to boost my income that way and then I just worked like crazy serving I worked six days a week at a restaurant and I doubled on weekends so it was a lot yeah wow so you're saying that if you work extra you can get out of debt yeah that's that's the key believe it or not that in a little self-discipline man tell everybody

because a lot of people think it's impossible to pay off student loans 132,000 at that I know I know I looked at it whenever I first started so I was watching the shows for a bit once I had talked to my my uncle to my Aunt Liz and um yeah I just I don't I couldn't find

anyone who was in the same boat as me who had so many private student loans my monthly minimums were almost $2,000 I know about that I know about that girl I know it's nice to hear your story yeah it was um it was really intense and single paying it off by myself and you know um I actually graduated a year early so all my friends were still in school which was great

I mean it's cool to go visit them and stuff but at the same time I was working all the time so I'm seeing them live their lives adult now yes I know it hit really hard so how old are you I'm 23 so 23 years old you

utilize the resources at your disposal your aunt and uncle they're like hey we're here for you you get two jobs two jobs work over yeah wow yeah push it to

six figures and that helped you knock this out quickly you were intense so what got you on this Ramsay plan um so I was at school um again yeah I was just I was so stressed I was shaking literally because I was so scared of that number 20 a month how was I going to afford rent and groceries and that and then I'm saving for lot you know like it's just impossible

so um I called them I knew that they had done a plan I didn't really know any of the details I've heard Dave's name before but that was about it yeah um yeah and I knew they were good with money gave them a call I said hey this is the situation I'm in and they were so helpful from yeah day one they we pretty much broke it down

I moved from Pittsburgh to uh yeah to Maryland Frederick and I just worked that was pretty much much it they were like you got this girl so so they just showed you the ramsy plan and you were like all right fine I'll do this yeah yeah you're smart they're good with money TR yeah so the question we get I

know the question I get all the time is how do you stay motivated and so I'm sure so many people want to know how Jaden did you stay motivated like you said all your friends are out here living living the best life like what did you do I think the main thing was just uh the two of them my friends honestly were really helpful too even though

they were living their lives they said they were like girl you are amazing you should totally do this they weren't doing it which is totally fine everyone moves at their own pace um but yeah they were so everyone was so nice and helpful and honestly I think a lot of it is just self-discipline like you really just have to I think when you see those numbers and you're terrified

and that's

your only option that's exactly what it is it's your only option I don't know I would have literally just you can't even bankrupt student loans so there's nothing else I could do and then you see the numbers working for you and you see the progress yes you get excited there's light at the end of the tunnel and it's not an oncoming train that's exciting yes initially I thought um whenever

I was going to undergrad I had always thought I was like this will be fine I'm going to go straight through to law school I'm going to come out attorneys make good money I'll be fine a not all attorneys make a ton of money B there I

life didn't happen as planned per usual you know this is should have been expected but it wasn't so wow so you said you had to you know make some sacrifices what were some of the biggest NOS you had to make on this journey as a young girl who's like I want to live my life and YOLO too yeah so my friends

went on spring break trips it sounds so silly saying it out loud now it's not though cuz it's life yeah it it really is they were going on trips to Nashville

and to the beach and my family was taking trips together and every single even if we went on a family trip and it was covered it was still that's money that's being taken away from paying towards the loans cuz you're not working during that time so and I would say other than that I think it was really challenging just not seeing I saw my aunt and uncle great a lot which was great

but you're not seeing your family like your my household family a lot which wow and you survived to tell the tale yeah I sure did here I am and now you'll be the one who's like guys want to go on this trip and they're like we're broke well now they'll be coming to you to figure out how to pay off their debt some of them already have been asking me about

it so it's been great yeah you're going to inspire a lot of people including Millions listening who are like I'm a young single girl with student loans I could be like Jaden yeah you can totally do this you just have to work really hard and it will be over yeah it will be over before you know it do you have some cheerleaders this journey my aunt and my uncle were really my biggest cheerleaders aming

they were seriously I could not have been more blessed but um my friends my family I people say that they have a lot of naysayers people calling you crazy I luckily did not run into that at all that's awesome yes yeah so it was amazing it was great you're you're different there are grow there are grown people who make more money than you do who they keep their loans around Forever Until

you know they start out low when they work themselves up to 132k and you just said not me no not me I couldn't

thank you thank you it's really exciting 23 making six figures bright future ahead of you we're so proud of you can you tell us quick how do you go to law school for free cuz that's your plan yeah you pred decided this is what's going to happen well yeah so initially that wasn't the plan luckily after going through everything absolutely um so I'm studying for my elsat right now

and if you get a high enough score on your LSAT basically it's about that there's other softer factors as well you have to take into account but um yeah just at you cuz

they want the person who's a brilliant Prodigy I wouldn't say they throw it at you but yeah yeah you definitely you can get into I feel like you're the type of person who will just do it because you're so focused you're so determined it's what got you out of debt and it's what's going to get you through law school debt free yeah you just have to be love

it very impressive very impressive we've got a every dollar premium for you a whole year and we're going to give you another one to gift to someone else to get their Journey started because we know getting a plan for every one of those dollars is the key spend less make more throw it at the debt do what you got to do and bada bing bada boom you'll become debt free like Jaden all right

the moment we've been waiting for it's Jaden from Frederick Maryland $132,000 in student loans paid off in 15

months making 41 all the way up to $2

with the side hustles and serving six days a week doubles on the weekends count it down Jaden let's hear a debt-free scream three two one I'm Deb

free yeah love that that's vbr in there yeah she had a little a little tone going on Jaden Jaden you need to get on the road I think that she is amazing I mean she's one of those people you just have a little pep in your step after hanging out with her she's attracts people who want to grow in life and she didn't have any naysayers cuz

she does surround herself with naysayers that's right she's got the right people around her you got to do the same thing America get the right inputs get the right people around you stay focused do whatever it takes whether you're 21 or 6 1 this plan works every time you work it this is the Ramsey

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our scripture of the day comes from Psalms 373 and 4 trust in the Lord and

do good dwell in the land and enjoy safe pasture take Delight in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart Reba McIntyre says said be different stand out and work your butt off I like

that old Reba little Reba it worked out for her listen she never ages how does that happen I know we just saw a photo with uh Zach in the booth had a photo he ran into Reba somewhere she looks just like she did 20 years ago I don't know how that happens oh she's a Survivor we know that all right let's get to the phone lines Maxwell joins us all the way

in Australia let's do this thing what's going on Maxwell good morning guys how are you hi Jade and hi George hey thank you so much for calling we needed an accent today and this one's brilliant good day I've never heard another Aussie online so I thought let's be the first yeah people we don't get a ton of calls from a we get a lot of Canadians but I prefer

you I want your advice um because today

is a really good day for crypto and I also have a bit of gold okay about $45,000 crypto today and I have about

$4,000 Australian in gold which comes out to about 1.4 o I am in a little bit of debt I am paying off my debt um I do make about $75,000 a year but I just want to know what should I do with the gold should I maintain it until 2030

keep it in my bank and then trade it in or what what do you guys suggest with all my assets I do have a bit of a retirement fund but not much why did you get the gold in the first place what was the goal of that I inherited it actually oh very

cool okay so this is from

family yeah yeah okay my pop how much

debt do you have roughly 2 and a half thousand which

I paying off I'm working to pay it off very quickly yeah so that shouldn't be I mean that's like a paycheck for you isn't it well I wouldn't say that I've given myself a deadline which I'm I'm adhering to like I um I've set myself a timeline so it's like the 30th of April it has to all be paid off by okay so end of April

what kind of debt is it yeah so I've got um about 1,100 on a

credit card and I have another debt to my employer who brought me a work PC and

I'm just paying them back out of my um paychecks but and they haven't actually deducted anything yet so I still owe them roughly $1,500 but I'm I'm expecting to pay them back by tax time this year so the question is should you sell the gold the Bitcoin to get out of debt

faster well the Bitcoin I don't want to touch for now but for the gold do you guys think I should be selling it to get out of debt or should I it to 2030 no I I don't know why 2030 I would just sell it now sell as much as you need to to get out of debt and you also don't have an emergency fund it sounds like

no not really unfortunately so I'd sell all of the gold to be honest Maxwell even if you didn't have the debt the advice would be the same Yeah Yeah well yeah I mean because

I know Dave's not a big fan of the gold well it just it doesn't really make sense in any plan except for some sort of apocalyptic paranoia where gold becomes a bartering system and you know we've heard it's a hedge against inflation and when times get scary in the economy gold will go up in value but again in scary times no one's going out to buy gold to live their life they got to turn that into money so true so I don't know I'm just I

it's not I'm anti-gold it's fine if you want to own some for fun but I wouldn't use it as part of my investing plan you're better off investing in the stock market is there an equivalent with your job here we have the 401K do you have an equivalent of that in Australia that's kind of associated with your with your employer that goes into your

retirement no but since L into the show I've Googled it and you know as an Australian I can invest in that but I've heard Dave been talking about mutual funds so potentially if I do sell the go pay off the debt I can just tiip into a mutual fund because the return rate looks better than the stocks that I'm looking at I'm looking at like apple exactly yeah what you're doing with a mutual fund is you're just buying a basket of stocks which will help

you diversify and avoid you know being too risky having one stock if that company goes down or up in value all of that it's too volatile so if I were you I'm selling all the gold I'm getting rid of all the debt and I'm going to stockpile an emergency fund with all my future paychecks if you're gun-ho on keeping the crypto I can't talk you off that ledge

then you can hang on to it but build that emergency fund as fast as possible 3 to six months of your expenses so do you know how much money would be to run your household for one

month it I pay so much rent where I live

I pay like $1,000 every two weeks just on my rent so I need to kind of figure out a game plan CU I'm not in a stable if I was to lose my job today my emergency fund like I probably would be a bit screwed are youing why I need kind of a bit of um yes thank God okay I mean

you you could look into getting a roommate to help offset these costs right now if rent is crazy over there it's a studio I live like 600

meters from the Harbor Bridge so the studio is like super expensive but you know I'm definitely touching base with what I need to do to stay afloat I'm looking at maybe a different job different like maybe starting a business but is it necessary for you to live in such a high rent area you move further away could you find rent that's you know 1,200

bucks the thing is Sydney is crazy it's

crazy and I really do love the freedom of having my own apartment unfortunately it is so expensive but I'm looking at jobs that might take me back out to the Northern Territory where you don't have to pay rent you just earn like 100 and 100 plus k a year and all you know you're pretty much just taken care of and you have to just work work work but you still make absolute Bank I'm looking

probably doing that yeah yeah mining industry in many ways I think that there's a lot of differences between where you live versus where we live obviously but the baby steps I think remain the same for you and the idea of keeping $1,000 set aside by the time you get this debt paid off and then like George said working to save up that three to six months of expenses in your case I'd probably Veer towards 6 months

because you're the only one bringing in income and then after that if you can find a way to invest 15% of your income into mutual funds like what you talked about growth growth and income aggressive growth and international is what we say here and that's that's what

I would do and I think for you the same way if someone from the States called in and said hey you know I'm paying $2,000 in rent and it's too expensive we would tell them looks look someplace less expensive consider a roommate find other ways to bring in more income so in many ways you know the the equation is exactly the same even though some of particulars May a little different yeah even keeping your household expenses to

you know 25% of your take-home pay going towards the rent that's going to help you not get to you know sideways where you go oh my gosh no wonder I can't save for the future and do all these things 50% of my take-home pay is going to rent and so that's where I go I know you want you want the beauty of having a place to yourself

you want the beauty of living close to the city you want the beauty of this and that but at some point we have to make some sacrifices in a different direction if we want you know you can't can't have it all you can't have the cake and eat it too and so I think you've got to sit down and decide what's really important to you and uh luckily

you don't have much debt and this thing's going to be gone within a month or two but it's the next you know five years we have to look at to go is this

sustainable that's why I've come on board with the baby steps because it's so easy to to kind of be mean to yourself and push yourself but yeah if you just slow down like like you said Jade I I do want to get this debt and then I do want to um put that $1,000

away and then I do want to have that months back up because that stability having I've now since gaining crypto I've gained so much Financial understanding but also since watching the Ramsey Show like you guys have

helped a lot so thank you I I kind of feel like okay stop being mean and just slay down get their job done you know what I mean that's right that's right A lot of people they got to stop doing 17 things at once and just focus on one thing at a time get their ducks in a row build a foundation so even with you I'm not mad

if you want to put more money into crypto but I would wait until you've already put 15% into your your retirement plan then with any fund money beyond that go ahead and put it in crypto and uh I hope it works out for you so I think you're on a good path and regardless of where you are in the world I love that these steps are so simple yeah

they just work it's get out of debt stay out of debt you know have a fund for the emergencies for the future and sa for retirement and usually I might get a little B out of shape for somebody that has gold in crypto but with that accent I know he's mad at he's too dang

Charming he got me oh that was fun oh I love that these baby steps work everywhere that's great it's amazing how it works this has been the Ramsey Show I'm George camel that's Jade warshaw thank you to all the folks in the booth that kept the show afloat despite ourselves and you America thank you for listening until next time spend wisely save intentionally and give

[Music]

generously

[Music]

[Music] a

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## 223. The Ramsey Show (Replay for May 27, 2024)


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| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `q7KkK0KG_EQ` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7KkK0KG_EQ) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:19:10 |

---

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free

today live from the headquarters of

Ramsey Solutions it's the Ramsey show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create actual

amazing relationships I'm Dave Ramsey your host

number one best-selling author host of

The Rachel crw show and the smart money

happy hour co-host my daughter Rachel

Cruz is my co-host today open phones at

8825 5225 thank you for joining us America

we're so glad you're here Shane is in

Denver hi Shane what's up good afternoon

sir how you doing today better than we deserve how can we help course yeah hey

I was uh I'm just calling to uh my wife

and I uh we bought our house in 2021 uh

for about we bought it for 500,00

um we put 100 down on it uh we had about

100 in our in our savings account that

we kept in there too for our emergency fund uh we have now paid it down to

about two it's we owe about 280 on it as

of today very good um so in three years

we've uh we've put down another 115,000

into it you're killing it dude um we're

we're we have no debt our cars are paid

off we have no debt and we have still about a hundred in our saving account today as well um we are worried about

the house economy crashing here in the next six

to six months or so and our mortgage

rate is at

2.5% well let me stop you I'm sorry why

are you worried about the housing economy in Denver Colorado

crashing I don't know I I think my I

don't know my wife is she's uh she's

more of a real a realist than I am and

so I am I'm just kind of going with the

flow and we're just trying to I'm sorry

what does being a realist mean you mean a pessimist I I don't I guess so I don't

I'm not trying to talk down on her because oh I wouldn't either I'm just saying a there's there's a realist to

someone who observes facts there are no facts in the

marketplace that indicated housing crash

in Denver Colorado in the next 6 months

absolutely zero facts okay well that's

good to know so um and then also we're

trying to we're wanting to see if we should sell our house and then and

collect our reeven collect it's already at 700 no no okay you guys need to get

off the internet that's what I say too

yeah I'm sitting next to the Ramsey the

Ramsey family conspiracy theorist conspiracy theorist I don't know when AT&T went out last month what is the

what's the Denver Housing conspiracy I missed this one you're up on all the conspirac have a Denver Airport you are close to the bunker that could happen if

it all goes down Shane that's your

greatest asset right now get at the same

time too my son we have a seven-year-old

son um and I travel a lot for work in

the state and we're trying to maybe move to the southern part of Colorado to

where I don't have to travel as much and

I can work my office down there but

please don't do that because the Denver

housing market is going to collapse in the six month next 6 months that should

not be that should not be one of the factors that drives your decision okay because it's

not it's not going to collapse okay okay

well and then percentage wise we didn't I didn't want to go get a new house and then pay a percentage on something with a higher interest rate at when we're at

2 going to have a higher interest rate for much longer because you're paying it off so fast yeah that's true I mean it

might be three or four years you carry it but you're not going to carry it for 30 years so it doesn't matter but make

your decisions out of a a glass half

full not out of

panic and really quit reading the

internet I'm serious okay there's some really dumb

dark people out there yeah that's that's

that's and I'm too busy with work my wife's a nurse practitioner in pych and

the last couple years she's been just a stay-at home mother with our kid during

the during these years and now my son's

getting to be where he can be in full-time school so she's about to go back to work too now so good we're going to have a double income yeah that'd be great and U you know but I mean py nurse

is a you know maybe she H oh my gosh

she's just seen a lot of crazy stuff no

pun intended right and so um you know it

can that can that can leave a mark on

you and so but I don't want her to live

in fear I don't meet people who

anticipate the end of the world who

Prosper none I just don't the people who who I

mean there's Preppers and then there's crazy Preppers okay prepper is one thing

but crazy prepper that's anticipating

the end of the world like I've got a friend who has gold bar I have a friend who has gold bars in his basement well and it's not it's just not right and let's keep talking about this though Shane because the housing market is a

point in our economy that a lot of people are panicked about and back you

know during Co when that when surg in 2021 we sat here at this desk and people

like it's a bubble it's a bubble it's bu

it's not supply and demand supply and demand we did the real estate yes we did the real estate you know hour and all of it so it is though Shane to your wife's

credit it is a it is a point of fear for

a lot of people because not to her credit to empathize with it I understand

how people are afraid but that doesn't mean that it's going it's sayal okay so

then give us the logic behind it because well the logic is there's a housing shortage still there's still three

buyers for every stinking house on the market and houses have gone up right now

today in most major markets homes that

are on the market are getting multiple offers but they're sitting on the they're sitting on it longer though it's not yeah like like eight days no it's

it's no but it's the the average days on the market has gone up eight days in the past 12 months just I my wife sent me

something the other day and it says new home sales Fall as mortgage rates weigh

down how well people I know when the mortgage rates did go it slowed it down though clicks on stuff unless it bleeds

that's a clickbait lead okay mortgage

housing starts fall as mortgage rates go

up which they did a lot of Builders slowed down there's not as many houses coming out of the ground you know what that does it means there's an even bigger shortage of inventory which makes your home even

that much more but house prices didn't

fall Builders slowed down building

because any want to get caught with specs if the market slowed down on them

but not if the market crashed

housing starts did drop but headlines always go everyone's

dying that's what the headlines always

say because that's what people click on is that stuff yeah so you know you know

yeah so look that's what I mean by don't read the internet okay and with the

election year coming up traditionally in

election years things slow down closer to the election too so you may see that happening traditionally interest rates go down because the sitting president

doesn't want to get unseated by a stinky

economy um we'll see yeah yeah we'll see but um

interest rates have come down a little bit in the last month and a half they've come down a full point and the market is

you know some areas the southern areas

of the country the grass is starting to get green people are coming out of their Winter Caves starting to buy houses and

the house market is heating back up it's a dirty little secret nobody's talking about it but um I I I've been

anecdotally involved in three or four deals lately where I'm watching and there's multiple offers coming in on these yeah and so I'm I'm getting ready

to put our home on the market and I was

just looking it's a different dollar amount but I mean I I was just looking at the you know what's the average days on the market the average days on the market what's the inventory inventory's

dried up I'm sitting pretty my timing is

excellent to put a house on the market

it's far from a crash quite the opposite

yeah you're going to see your homes go up in value in the next 12 months just write it down and say the old ball guy said it this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30

years and some of the saddest calls I

have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable yeah and what's

so hard is I feel like one of those especially the ones that I'm like oh it's terrible people that call in and

their spouse has passed away suddenly

and they don't have life insurance we actually took a question of a lady and

she had three kids pregnant and husband

didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite right if if a mom passed away there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care how do I how do I Outsource

some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the

sadness of something like a sudden death

to a whole new level like when you have to think through how am I going to pay

my bills next week yeah in the middle of

all that grief like it's just it is it's terrible and so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for

people to get because it's inexpensive Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep reuping it because I'm like

I just want it there like there's something about that safety of knowing

that you have money if something suddenly happens and it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies it doesn't cost much you just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here you got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time

to put this stuff in place the cost of stinking Pizza it really is so that is one thing oh to do to say I love you to your family so we've used Xander for all

of our fam's needs for insurance for

many years including of course term life

insurance to get a free quote go to 800

356 4282 that's 800 356 4282 or go to

xer.com

[Music]

[Applause]

well there's one thing most of us agree

on on taxes suck this is the time of year which I

generally stay grouchy just in general

just because I think about how much

theft my government is involved

in can we talk about this real quick too

adds on to the text yeah um I don't know

why I it was kind of an epiphany I had

yesterday where I was like it is weird that like you could pay off your house you could be completely debt free but if

you you still have to the government to a degree still owns it like you got to pay your property taxes in a sense they

kind of own your career if you don't pay your taxes you get put in jail and then

car insurance you got a pay off car but you got to pay insurance like there's a level of of of this that you're like man

yeah it's not like some of these things never stop it's what it feels like yeah

for real I don't know I had that Epiphany the other day I was like man so you got two choices for claiming tax

deductions understanding the difference can save you big bucks literally over

seven out of 10 Americans get a tax refund that means seven out of 10 of You

Are doing math poorly there's a shock you know what cuz

I listen I'm old I know Santa Claus he's a friend of mine he never goes to Washington DC that money that's coming

to you is not from Santa Claus he has

nothing to do with it it's not a gift it's your money you sent too much money

to the freaking IRS they held it all

year at no interest and they send it back to you called a refund and you have a celebration like you hit the freaking Lottery all it was was a bad Christmas

account account you know you just saved

up money and then they send it back to you with as 0% interest with a stinking

IRS because you had too much taken out of your check stop it adjust your deductions to the proper amount of tax

withholding to where you don't owe any taxes and they don't give you a refund that's the proper thing to do now this

is what you got to do guys now if you're

doing your taxes right now you can take a standard deduction that's the easy option if you're single you make 65,000

a year the standard deduction knocks off close to 14,000 so you only pay taxes on

51,000 of your income and not even that

really that's if you're single so itemize your deductions if

you're going to do that it takes more work and you need a bunch of deductions right so if you want know to know more

about all this tax stuff there's two

things we'll do to help you one is if you have a very simple return you can

get the ramsy tax smart software smart

Ramsey smart tax software I can't say it

and I'm not smart enough to say it and so the it's not very expensive and it's

very easy to implement and a whole bunch of people have moved from those other guys like 100,000 of you will do your

taxes on the Ramsey smart tax software this year so it's very easy very simple

now if you have a complicated return like you have a small business a side hustle you bought or sold a house or whatever like that and you want to get a tax Pro we've got tons and tons of tax

Pros that are endorsed local providers

that we have vetted I was just talking to one a minute ago from Houston and

there she is waving at us she was at the break getting her picture made she does taxes for you in Houston so good folks taking good care of you

that's the way to do it go to ramseys solutions.com and you can find out about

either one of those Noah is in

Sacramento hi Noah welcome to the Ramsey

Show hey Dave and Rachel huge fan thank

you for taking my call sure what's

up um I'm just I'm in a I got myself

into a a predicament I um I moved I was

living in Huntington Beach um around 2021 and then after covid and

stuff I lost my job and my family in

Sacramento said I can come live with them so that's where I've been the last three years um I got a good job well I

make about 60k um and but over the three years

being here um I've made some very bad

decisions um severe gambling addict I

think that me just having to pay my

parents a couple hundred a month like gave me two much uh not enough

responsibility and I was just blowing it left and right uh maxing out credit

cards long story short um now I'm here

um I told my parents everything and I

just told them that I have a game plan to move out of here by September and

just pay off everything I can until then

um I got a job

opportunity uh to go out and spray for

pests like Pest Control in Texas that is

guaranteed 30,000 for about 4 months of work until

September I'm wondering if I should quit

my current job and go do that and go pay

off all my debt but I'd come back with

no

job where in

Texas um wo i I think wo yeah you think

now I'm sure where it is okay um what

have you done about your what have you done about your severe gambling addiction haven't gambled what is it it's three or

four months it's been about all year um

but it was bad I I broke down how have you dealt with

it you just decideed you don't stop and

that's it you've got no help at all no I I it cost me um a relationship

and a bunch of stuff and it just I just realized I just had to stop no I haven't got like a therapist or anything but yeah I've been good deleted all my all

the websites okay there's two possibilities in this conversation one is you don't have a severe gambling addiction you were just stupid that's

one possibility and you decide to stop being stupid two is you have a severe

gambling addiction and if that's the case you have not done enough to fix this you would need to get into Gamblers Anonymous and you would need to be seeing a counselor okay okay how old are you okay

I'm 25 I just turned 25 in December okay

so I mean i' I've I've never had a

severe addiction but I have done stupid stuff so I can relate to one side of it

as a possibility I I don't know if this

is just immaturity and stupidity and you

can ask yourself that question I'm not calling you that I'm just saying your

actions were and and the way that you

just quit cold without any help at all kind of makes me think it was on that side rather than the addiction side but I'm not a therapist what do you what do you think was it is it a compulsion do

you know what I mean Noah like usually with an addiction there's a level of compulsion there it was it was it was

compulsion yes it was the dop it was

being bored I um all my I don't have any

friends in Utah I mean sorry in

Sacramento and um when I got here I got

a job right away but it was it's work from home I've been working from home for three years so I never met anybody

yeah and that's my bad I could join a club I could do stuff but I haven't and

so I've just kind of been working in my room and after I get off I'm in my room

gambling because I'm it's just it's just

been horrible yeah how much how much debt did you go into for it uh I've been

climbing myself out of it all year um I

also have a car payment because I just had to have the Lexus you guys know it

stupid um but I have a credit card with

1,800 on it um 4k on another card and

that's it for the credit cards and then I have a $10,000 car loan okay I also

owe the IRS

$1,300 um because I decided to go exempt

on some paychecks which was really dumb

yeah cuz you were gambling okay um

so well you hit your Rock Bottom though

and I think for a lot of people there is

that part of their story where it's just

you you lost everything your relationship all I mean it's just you got to a point you can't you couldn't continue to move forward until you had

those conversations right that to to

actually bring up what's been going on

um but I I'm with Dave on that that I I

would just for your own sake and I think that all of this is good for anybody just to do some work around who you are

how you got here what what are these things these compulsions where is it coming from I mean just doing some digging the problem into your story yeah

the problem with going to Waco is you go with you yeah so all all of these all of

these things are still there you're not

you're not getting away from

them totally I the The Good the good

thing is they're they're putting me in a hotel I know which is we were in a room

before by yourself that was dangerous

yeah not a good thing they're paying for

uh rent I have a work truck waiting for

me out there I know it sounds like a

good deal except that you're going with

you and I'm worried about you yeah I

would just say if you were to do this from a financial aspects I would put I

would put some parameters around it and I would I I mean things like like GA is

so great I mean the 12ep stuff is so

good you need to plug into gamblers or yes being in a weekly group I mean honestly it's like these practices that you put in front of continue to work on

the shame it continues to work on the

actual Act of it I mean I just I think it's I don't know so I I I without

having without being sure you're healed

or in a healing process just taking off

the Waco is a bad idea so if you if

you're engaged in some kind of healing process and Waco is part of that process

great but running away and you following

you is a bad plan this is the Ramsey

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

it's common sense for your dollars and

cents this is the ramsy

show proving that having common sense is

somewhat like having a superpower today

open phones atle 88255 5225 in the lobby

of Ramsey Solutions we have a wonderful thing called the debt free stage when

people stand on it they do their debt free screams we do the show on the glass

5 days a week from 1: to 4: every

afternoon you're welcome to stop by and join us here in Nashville Anthony and

Susan are on the debt free stage welcome

guys hey hi where do you guys live St

Louis mouri oh wow nice well welcome to

Nashville how much debt have you paid off we paid off 54,7 $73 very good and

how long did that take about eight months good for you nice and wow and

your range of income during that time yeah we went from making

$165,300 K yeah what do you all do for a

living so I'm a nurse she's a registered

nurse and I um I'm a Precision pler for

a defense company okay so what y'all do

just like work overtime out your ears

yeah or promotions or what 12 hours a

day s days a week y'all went nuts oh my

gosh what kind of debt was the 55,000 uh

it was the big bulk of it was student

loans and um also a Discover card and

then we had a lot of smaller stuff like

um Jewelry Loan um we had uh phones that

we owed money on we had a 401k loan no

we're like normal pretty normal yeah

yeah and normal sucks yeah it did so you

woke up and said this sucks y'all how long y'all been married 15 years so 14

years this has gone by yeah and what

happened a year ago what was the blow what was the blowup what was the ramsy connection well a year ago was about a

year of us really being stressed out with having a lot of debt um and we

would I remember we were like always

sitting in the hot tub that we of course

um got a loan for right finance and

complaining about like how the burden of

the debt and about what do we need to do

to get through it that is a great

picture yeah yeah it was pretty crazy

I'm sitting in my finance cot tub

whining about the debt

right yeah and that is so great um I I

actually um had an injury where I had to

um have a medical procedure done and I was out of work for three months oh and

that put the pinch on stuff it did yeah

so and you went oh this crap ain't working yeah we took a 401k loan out to

try to cover that span of of time and

then the credit card just took off um

because it wasn't enough um and so at

that point we knew that something had to change so at the point at okay so the

pressure built up yeah gave you a wakeup

call then what'd you do well we had your

book sitting on our Shelf for three months the total money or for a long time The Total Money Makeover um and we

started to read it probably three or four years prior cuz we we wanted to

change things but we didn't think we had a big enough problem when we dove in into it well um God put it on our hearts

at the beginning of last year that um we

could we could change and um the book

was staring Us in the face so picked it

up and and read it within a couple days

um started really listening to the

podcast and and watching you on YouTube

um and then we just we buckled down and

we started to create a budget we used the every dollar app um and that that

was the game changer was there one of you guys that was more like hardcore we

got to start we got to start more urgent about it or were were you both pretty

equal um I think he started things off

but then we were together wanting to get rid of the debt okay yes yes in that

process so what was the hardest part for

you guys for eight months I mean you're you're working insane hours and I mean

you're doing a lot you went crazy in a

great way yeah yeah for me it was like

he's working all the time so I'm taking care of everything at the house and the

kids um and the scariest thing for me

honestly was putting my 401k on hold cuz

we've I've always invested like 10% and

he was like we have to do this and I was like I don't know um but we did it and

that was the scariest thing and the weird thing is only eight months it didn't hurt no it didn't hurt we ended up doing the whole year and saving more money and then this year we started with

um a new investor and my 401k is like

doing better than ever before so okay

okay yeah funny how that works yeah we

hooked up with a smart Vestor Pro and he

really um sat down with us and explained

um what we were doing and you know like

you always say the reasons we we started to understand and she just pulled up a

statement the other day and and that since she started taking some of that advice the the changes have been pretty

insane so wow good for y'all so

encouraging well done well done

excellent all right now when people find

out you did this that you got completely out of DEA we were just bopping along 14 years of marriage and then boom we get a

year of hell and we get out of debt yeah

so that we don't have to live in this mess anymore when people ask how'd you

do that what do you tell them the secret to getting out of debt is I think for me um the big thing was

it you got to go to work you have to you

have to work hard you have to um and and

not only that you have to um get on the

same page and create a budget um for us

for the longest time she Susan always handled the finances I was like looking

back an ostrich with my head in the sand like she would come to me and say this is going on and I I didn't want to hear

it because it I felt like it stressed me

out and I needed to um grow as a man and

step up and and we needed to to lock

arms and come together and and create a

vision for for what we wanted uh the

money to to do so and every wife in

America just went touchdown I don't know if they said touch down they probably said amen amen

hallelujah uh that's so good so so good

and the bud this had to impact your all's marriage then Big Time y yeah like

Susan you're not carrying the whole way the stinking thing on your back right right it's been really awesome sitting down with him we sit down every week and do the budget do the bank book together

do everything together and you know it

was just me for like the longest time so that's just it's amazing so Anthony did it when you actually started leaning in and doing it did it stress you out as much as you thought it would back in the day when you said I don't want to look at that I get stressed um in the

beginning I wouldn't it might have stressed me out because I know for um a

while it was hard to learn how to be um

how to how to compromise um so there

were things that I saw that like that

money was going to places that I had no

idea and um so I had to learn that like

this this needs to go there like this isn't like frivolous or or or anything

like that like I cuz I my eyes were open

to where the money was going that

you weren't scared of hard work before but when you had a reason for your hard

work you went after it kicked it in overdrive yeah big time you kicked it hard well done guys well done I'm so

proud of you you're Heroes man than you you're Heroes and you have three kids yes all right let's bring them up and introduce them and give me their names

and ages please so our our oldest

daughter this is Courtney she's 14 hey

Courtney good good and then our our middle daughter is Sophia she's 12 mhm

then our youngest daughter Abigail is seven all right Miss Abigail all right

very cool and there's so many families

that are in the middle of this journey and I really than you guys just being here is such a beautiful picture that it's possible it's so possible well done

it's amazing we've got a one-year subscription for every dollar for you for the premium and another one as well

for you to give away to somebody and get them started on it way to go you guys

Your Heroes very proud of you those three beautiful girls lives have been changed by a a grown man a grown woman

doing what they're supposed to do well done you guys very cool Anthony and

Susan Courtney Sophia and Abby from St

Louis $55,000 paid off in eight months making

$1 165 and then went to work

266 count it down let's hear a debt free

Scream 3 2 1 we're Deb free

that is how that is done man I mean all

the questions we get I can't get my

husband involved I can't get my wife

involved that that guy just outlined

right there he just stepped up that was that was the most manly masculine thing I've heard in a

long time for that guy he owned every

bit of it yeah and stepped in there beautifully done and so many women were

hurt that that are running the household

on their own and it's a lonely place to be and so when you said sit down you end up talking about life you end up talking this is where the money's going what's going here on here and it's so much the

connection point is so huge so so huge

massive this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number

one bestselling author my co-host today

Emily is with us in Grand Rapids

Michigan hi Emily welcome to the Ramsey

Show hi how's it going good How can we

help good so I'm reaching out today I

feel like I'm a Ramy kid growing up your

theme song has been like a jingle in the household through the last 26 years of my life um I'm reaching out today I'm

kind of nervous not sure kind of what to do at this point we make just under

$100,000 a year my husband and I and he

is getting ready to hopefully go back to

school here in a couple weeks um just

kind of waiting on that official acceptance and we will be losing about

60% of our income um and we were running

numbers last night sitting down trying to evaluate things and I'm just not

sure what we do with such a large

reduction in our income based on what we

kind of saw are expenses are you guys able to cover the

basics on 60% or on 40% of your income

um barely um we do have two kids so we

are bearing the price of child care

times two um on the positive side he's

old enough now he's in his early 30s

where he's going to be going to school on pilgrims and scholarships so we don't have to necessarily work on like cash flowing his education um but I'm just

kind of concerned with how we're going to structure like our living expenses how long will he be in school

for roughly 8 to 13 months and it's a

full roughly seven days a week N9 to5

they said don't plan on working during

the program because it is such a vigorous course well that means that

means there childcare is no help at all

exactly okay so childcare stays there

and you're making 40K and you can live on that or not if

the answer is not you can't do it

I mean yeah I don't think you know and

we've looked at a couple different options you know my parents are getting ready to retire but I don't really want them spending their whole retirement watching their grandkids five days a week um well the eight to 10 months is

not their whole retirement true

true okay uh um I mean if they want to

do it that that's another thing I mean

they may not want to do it it may not be an option but um but I mean you you

what's he going to study

um electrical lineman so he wants to do

high power voltage okay and so he's making 60 now

he'll come out making 80 day one yeah I

think they said apprentices start roughly 45 to 50 an hour flat rate not

including any overtime you know so the

in car and his apprenticeship is like

only a couple of years and then he'll be making serious money yeah yeah is he

going to travel with it no I think he

plans to stay local um we bought our

house in 2020 for Fairly cheap at a super low interest rate so we're not really willing to give that up right now

okay because I mean if he's traveling it's a whole different world even in in

that in that world as you know H okay um

well here's the thing uh it feels like

the way you're describing this that you

first decided for him to do

this um and then tried to figure out if you

could afford it rather than the other way around

like you should have figured out if you could afford it before he decided to do it because his his primary job is to not

become a Highwire guy his primary job is

to feed his family yep and if he can't do that then

he can't do

this yep and was he talked about picking

up like a part-time job um or working

with his current employer to see if he can work on End hours um to kind of fill

those gaps but they said not to do that

yeah they didn't recommend it um until

they kind of get into like the core of

the program so and he's been working

towards this roughly about six years he's paid off roughly $7,000 in debt

because currently we we've done step one

we've been working on step two but as soon as he started to get the beginning of the acceptance it's just we kind of froze step step two for a minute to say

okay how much do you guys have left Emily for our debt yeah not including

our mortgage about 35,000 okay what

student loans um a vehicle and then we

put a new roof on our house after we purchased it how much do you owe on the

vehicle um I want to say roughly 5,000

okay is there a way to for him to delay

this like a year and you guys get in a

position where you pay off debt you can

get savings or like any level of traction if you had no debt and had your

emergency fund fully funded you could probably see your way through this a lot more to Rachel's Point yeah yeah and

that's something he's considered I just know the program he's currently in he's

you know put it off and talked about it and he's applied and so none of that

really matters if you have hungry

children when

yeah so and it off tough is the scary

this grownup land yeah you got to do

what you have to do to feed your family first and then you do this so you'd be

in a much better condition if you said

I'm going to intentionally spend this next year

getting our crap together so that when I do this it doesn't put my family in Jeopardy um cuz you're really calling

saying you can't figure out how you're doing this you keep saying we're barely going to make it but what you're really saying is is we can't make

it okay aren't

you well looking at the numbers I think

it's slightly doable but it's then again getting out of our comfort zone of our

current lifestyle and getting into that new lifestyle and I'm just concerned I

can handle you I mean I you can give up your comfort zone that's that's whoop you know that's nothing it's not comfort zone I'm concerned about it's

food yeah and you know the Necessities

will be met that's our biggest thing you

know I'm just worried about you know any additional expenses or things that come up how much is your house payment um a

thousand and your take home pays

3,300

yes and you're going to run the rest of

this household on 2,300 bucks a month

including $35,000 worth of debt

bull that's that's bull yeah that's what

yeah the numbers aren't crunching no

they're not crunching at all yeah so

they're crunching but it's not a good sound of crunch um yeah yeah I

um yeah I I I would wait Emily honestly

I I I don't I'm not a dream killer but I

love killing nightmares yeah and so um I don't want

to kill his dream but if his dream puts

his whole family you know you call me back eight months from now yeah he went but we're in foreclosure you know I I don't I'm not

going to sign you up for that and and have my stamp of approval I I want him

to go do this but I want him to do it in

such a way that he doesn't put all of you guys in Jeopardy and he he doesn't want to put you guys in Jeopardy but you

just you guys have not thought this through until last

night yep so we've been you know looking

at stuff and I you know I've pretty much

run our budget I mean he's not a spender

um it's not the question not I'm not

saying he's a bad guy I'm saying you

guys together have not thought this through until last night and you have to

Stephen cvy says one of the seven habits of highly effective people is they begin

with the end in mind and last night you

did that for the first time on this and

it took your breath away and that's why you called yeah cuz I just wasn't sure I

know to do so here here's what I'm going to tell you if I were in your shoes

here's what I would do my first choice

would be for him to wait a year Rachel's

suggestion is excellent and if it if it

takes 18 months or if it puts the whole thing in Jeopardy so be it I'll call

that God and so God put it in Jeopardy

because God says don't do things where

you can't feed your own

family those that don't take care of their own household first are worse than an unbeliever Bible okay so we we're you

know we're going to call it that now the

if but I am but I am convinced that if

he can get in there this round he can probably get in another round so that's

Choice one choice two is you guys look

around there and figure out how we're going to increase our income above your

base and Mom and Dad are going to commit

to keep the kids and drop your daycare bill because your daycare bill is probably what two grand a month yeah

honey two your daycare in your house and

you don't have any money left for food I just did that yeah so so and we're looking at

child care Alternatives and you're reaching out trying to find low is your

is your child care two grand a month

yeah plus a th000 3,000 yeah your take

home's 3,300 your budget's not tight

it's impossible you cannot go forward unless

you adjust something it's

fantasy okay you don't have any yeah

that that's just dingding so adjust the

child care sell a car

take six jobs he works on the side even though

he's not supposed to and for eight months you grind it out like that and for eight months and you pay a price for him to get to be this I'm okay with paying a price to win but I'm not okay

paying a price knowing I'm going to lose

that's a bad idea it's what it's one life event away from to your point foreclosure a car no they can't even make it it's not it's not it's one month away well yes you can't even get to the

food budget here this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

[Music]

brought to you by the every dollar app start budgeting for free today

live from the headquarters of ramsy

solutions it's the Ramsey show where we

help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships I'm Dave Ramsey your host

thank you for joining us America open

phones at

88255 225 Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality

number one bestselling author is my co-host today and we're happy to talk to

you and America about your life and your

money so when I wrote the first book I

ever wrote Financial Peace in

1994 raise your hand if you weren't born

yet okay um they did a

love yeah when I wrote that book I

proposed a concept in our seminars that we were

doing in those days and in it was a

different world in 1994 sure um and the

90s are back a little bit I proposed a

concept and I got

so much one of the first times I got

just showered in hate oh I can't wait it

was fabulous and so the concept was this

and I don't remember the exact numbers

but they were a whole lot lower than they are today so I'll make up some

numbers that would be similar to what they probably were I said something like

if a lady is making $30,000 a year at

her job she has two kids and daycare is

$11,000 a month and she buys clothing

professional clothing to go to that job

and she dry cleans the professional because in the '90s you were wearing suits to go to that job for a lot of places well they weren yeah they weren't wearing sweatpants to work in those days

or your pajamas um and so it's a different world

like I said and if she were and if

because she was working she didn't prepare meals from scratch at home

because time and fatigue the family

would go out to eat more and they would spend from scratch but just meaning like

spend more on pre-prepared things or

going out to eat yeah because of fatigue ordering pizza because I'm tired I don't feel like cooking or the husband is choosing not to cook yes going well whatever I'm just saying and so uh 1994

I know this is the so just hang with me here but uh and I propose that if you

add all of these things up making

$28,000 a year paying $1,000 a month for

child care these other things added in

after taxes come out and gasoline to

drive to said job and wear and tear on

the car to drive to said job when you

take all of those things out she's probably losing money

working and it might be cheaper net net

net net net to stay home with the kids

if she wants to I didn't say she should

be at home barefoot and pregnant I did not say that I said if she chooses to

and wants to be at home now people said

I said a lot of things I didn't say but that's exactly what I said but even on the premise that she can't afford she's

not making enough to justify working yes

or he's with the expenses with the expenses at that time and I caught hell

for suggesting that net of daycare net

of all these other expenses she might not be making anything as you know

because I did some math and Dad blame if I didn't get

blamed for the other side of that not

that but the other way of what of not

understanding the cost of daycare and that you can't afford to work because of the cost of daycare the stinking Wall Street Journal some woman writes an article trash in me recently not4 just

the other day just the other day said I said on the air that that women that

they can't that that daycare is is

ridiculous and so you just need to shut

up and go to work I didn't say that at all I've said quite the opposite since

199 freaking 4 and I get I don't if

you're going to hate me hate me for the right thing okay if you're going to

about something Dave said pick out

something he actually said okay great

but I think they clipped I think there was a clip of you saying that's a ridiculous amount to pay for child care and they clipped that not knowing the whole call well that of course because

it's the freaking media I know but that's some idiot on Tik Tok guy yes

that specific guy was paying he was but

he was paying like $28,000 for one kid

yeah that is dumb well I don't yes

average right now yes average right now is 16,000 okay so depending on where you

are if you're in New York City and Manhattan that is going to look difference no that guy was calling in he was trying to put his kid in I don't remember telling no I don't know it was

Gucci daycare he was signing up for he

his upper lip was sunburned his nose was

in the air we don't know that yes I do

no we don't no we don't but I am not I

was I'm on quite the other side of what I got blamed for which is what I'm upset for I I did not I mean all I'm talking

about that particular instance it's like somebody calling up and going I'm paying

$46,000 a year for my child to attend a

private elementary school and I make

$60,000 a year what do you think of that

I think you're a that's what I think of that okay you can't do math

your kids shouldn't be in a school that fancy okay cuz you're just stuck up

that's all that is and it that's what

this guy was it had nothing to do with

the actual cost of daycare remember I think I think the thing is it is such a

it's such a hard subject because unlike

94 you fast forward to today where it is

it's it's like child care it's I think it's ludic 30 to almost 40% in some

areas since like 2019 like it really

going up faster than tuition I I I know

that yeah for working moms so and parents no it's not different than 94 so the exact same thing is true some people

now with the cost of daycare aren't making money that's right after after

toe so I'm still saying the same thing

yes no I know I know but now I'm getting hated for saying the other thing that I didn't say I know but I think too the

conversation of a household income because so many families are dual income

and a lot of families are dual income

and make on average right like in that

in that 60 70 range per year yep and

then in order to pay the mortgage and

have the food I mean like there is and these days Mama might be making more than daddy Not Unusual at all oh yeah

that's the other option is that that the

that the spous who is the one that goes

home I don't care that's not the point it's a math thing is all I'm looking at

and the problem is though again people

are are getting to this place now because it's risen so quickly that it

that they're having to look now at exactly what you're saying at the options of like oh my gosh and I've known some moms that they're like I got to go home like I have three kids under

the age of five and we can't literally

can't afford it or you make you make $4,000 a year today and you have three kids under the age of five in daycare you're not making money I know that's that 1994 example

in24 right2 I know and there's some other

there's some you know other ways you can

look at it I mean there's you got to find an alternative Child Care situation

if you're going to work in that situation yes yes because because you're

not actually making money yep you're

working and going backwards and what's hard is for the single mom too who doesn't oh it's almost impossible yeah who almost doesn't even have that but here's the other thing the 16,000 is the

average nationally this includes

expensive markets and expensive markets

and it includes expensive dayc carees and inexpensive dayc carees and so

there's a lot of ways to skin the cat

there's a lot of ways to take care of the kids but it is a valid thing to sit

and look at it as a family and make and

make AIS values yes but people don't use

they they get emotional because it's a

the issue is their children and you want

brains melt down and they quit doing

math because as a mom with little kids who works you go you go through some of these places you're like I don't want to I don't feel comfortable sending my kid here too right so there's a I know I

know but it's the idea that it's it's a

it's a hard subject for a lot of people it is hard it is

[Applause] [Music]

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okay so we left everyone with we're not going to keep the rant going how how hard that subject is in life yeah how

high Child Care is and how hard it is

yes it is high and it is hard the trick

is to not be

irrational and justify stupid

numbers because you love your

children love of your children does not

make math go away

math still will Roost it'll still come

home so we want to help you face this

high cost and if you go to Ramsey

solutions.com we have a Blog there

called 13 ways to afford the high cost

of child care almost like everyone at

Ramsey knows that child care I know is

high yes just in case some of you on Tik

Tok weren't listening were aware that

childcare cost is high but that does not

mean that you suddenly get a pass on

math the cost of Real Estate in

Manhattan is high but some of you can't

afford to live there because of

math it's that simple the cost of real

estate in Tokyo is high and some of you

can't afford to live there because of

math so we'll help you with this and but

I'm not going to help you with denial or

the system's broken so I'm going to

ignore math no that's not what you we're

not going to go down that alley no but there are some there are some different ways creative ways to kind of look at it and one of the options is what we talked about in the last segment was maybe one

one uh parent decides to stay home right

like maybe it gets to a point that a valid option yeah and here's the interesting thing I'll add one more thing I said we weren't going to extend the rant but now we are okay there are

parents out there right now uh with this

thing you and I have talked about this at length mom guilt if you work you're

guilty because you're not home if you're home you feel guilty because you're not working moms can't win yep they got

guilt either way society and on heaps it

on them they Heap it on themselves if

I'm at work I feel guilty because I'm not home with the kids if I'm at home with the kids I feel guilty because I'm not using my degree and I'm not out making money and so you just can't get

away from it guys don't struggle from this Mo by and large by and large the mom guilt is the mom guilt is a very real thing so in the midst of that

statement there are ladies who really

would prefer to be at home with their children

sure yeah and have never sat down and done the math that says you should be MH

and so this sets you free cuz stay at home mom I want to set you free if that's you yes if you if you're a professional lady Rachel's in the workplace my other daughter works if

you're a professional lady in the workplace I'm not trying we're not trying to say you should go home or you're not a good mom we're not saying that at all we're saying if that's your

choice to be at home but you feel like

you should the family needs money for working and yet you're not netting anything I'm this math is going to give

you permission to go home yes there's a

value a dollar value for stay-at-home moms the amount of work that they do no

question for sure Ashley in Savannah

Georgia hi Ashley welcome to the ramsy show he y'all hey what's

up well um to continue off of what y'all

are talking about how did my husband and

I pay off debt rebuild our savings and

potentially have another baby while living in the world where expenses keep

increasing like daycare and

rent what do youall make what's household income we both make 80,000

okay so you make

160 yeah you make

$160,000 well our joint that would be

how much debt do you guys have um so I have so we are renting uh

2300 um and then obviously like power

and all that stuff how much do you ow your cars just debt yeah we have we have

no uh car notes car loans my car is paid

off but she is reaching 200,000 miles

and my husband has an old Blazer that we

just can't rely on if our car what debt

do you guys have so I have two credit

cards uh one is 3700 that I'm making

minimum payments on unfortunately one

was charged off recently my other card

which is about 15 and I'm pretty sure there's some

medical debt for around how long have

you all been making 160,000 and

overspending uh the 160 just happened

this year what were you making in the other years uh well Co really rocked us uh

60-day fur low turned into over a year

um and then I took a job for 50,000 um

and I just got back up to

80 what was your husband

making um he's been slowly uh

progressing as well so um probably about

60 and just got to 80 as well okay so y

were around that 100 mark for a while so

here's what's happened okay you went

through a downturn in your incomes and you slowly progressed back

to and Beyond where you were before and

you faster than your income went up your

spending went up cuz you didn't give me anywhere

nothing you've given me so far tells us where $160,000 is going I have no idea

why you should be this broke how in the world you have a $3,000

credit card charged off making 160 means

you're out of control disorganized and

chaotic in your house so the credit card I haven't put

anything on a credit card in years this is like really but why don't you just pay it off you make $160 Grand it's

$3,000 cuz you didn't have any money cuz

all your money is going to restaurant

and trips you can't afford we're not

eating out we're not going on trips I'm not getting my nails done I haven't got my hair seriously where's your money

going seriously where's all your money

going then if you're in control and you

have a budget laid out where's your 160,000 going cuz it's not going to rent

you don't have that much rent it's not going to debt 2,300 she told us there's

no your rent's low you don't have any

debt where's your money

going our all of our money goes to bills

what bills you don't have any

bills this is hilarious yeah what bills

do you have don't yell at her don't what bills

do you

have hello for help what I'm sorry what

bills do you have all of our bills combined are

$4,000 a month okay that's 2,300 for

rent what's the other 1,700 12250 for

dayare okay which keeps going up year

over year yeah it does

okay and then power electricity all the

basic minimum gas okay so you said did

you say $4,000 a month did I hear you right correct that's $48,000 a

year and then plus child care no no no

that included childcare did it the $4,000 included $150 $1,250 for child

care so that's $48,000 out of 160 so

somewhere I'm still missing $102,000

okay somewhere I'm still missing almost

$100,000 that's what I'm talking about

this is recent and then any money that we have left over is going into the snowball method how much is left over

per month that you guys

have tax 500 I'm sorry 500 we're just

dumping that into savings

500 okay you're something's really

really really really off in your math

because you gave me $48,000 worth of

debt $500 is $6,000 that's $54,000 out

of 160 I'm still over $100,000 is

missing not counting taxes you following this are you looking

at a yearly number like like monthly week $500 a month is

$6,000 a year on Ashley how much do you

guys how much you how much hits your checking account every month in income

wise after taxes what are you guys bringing home now I get 1,800 every two

weeks and what is that's that's around the same thing

as well okay that's not $160,000 a

year before

taxes yeah no how much you got you got

money going in your 401k no okay you have way too much

withholding

okay you guys need to okay I'll tell you

what hold on here's what we're going to do I can't break this cuz I can't break

her so um you I'm going to I'm going to

hook you up with one of our financial counselors actually who can sit down and calmly go through this and try to explain it to you because I can't

nothing you're saying makes sense well 60 these numbers are 50

60,000 off that she's just so far off

it's unbelievable and so there's

something else going on with your math here I don't know where your money's going you you don't know where your money's going all you figured out is is

that it's not working um and so you guys

have got to sit down cuz

$160,000 a year is not 1,800 bucks every

two weeks times

[Music]

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[Music]

[Laughter] [Music]

[Applause] [Music] Rachel Cruz ramsy personality is my

co-host today our event season is in

full swing we have three events coming

up where you can experience the ramsy teachings live and in person with

thousands of people just like you our

next one is The Total Money Makeover

weekend event Rachel and me Dr delone

Ken Coleman Jade George all of us will

be speaking at this two-day ultimate

motivator event to get fired up and wired up to live the life you've always wanted tell every dollar what to do make

every dollar behave and learn to win

with money get out of debt become wealthy be outrageously generous we're going to show you how to do every bit of it May 10th and 11th here on our campus

uh we're already half sold out so if you

want to come you need to get your tickets immediately then on May 21st and

22nd I'm going to be doing a virtual

event with George camel helping me as we

unpack not only the basics of investing

but the Dave Ramsey's investing Essentials something I've never done before I'm going to open my playbook my personal Playbook on real estate I own

several hundred million dollars worth and I'll show you what I've done and how I've done it and it's not a Tik Tock video it's not easy but I can show you

how to really do it I've actually done

it it's not a theory for me I don't live in my mother's basement so we're going

to walk this walk this through for you

then Rachel and Dr John delone will be doing the money and marriage getaway October 24th and 26 through the 26th

that is here on our campus as well spend

a weekend away with your spouse in Nashville and with Dr John delone and

Rachel Cruz uh real life

answers to Real Marriage questions gets

a little dicey in there sometimes I'm just saying but uh you're going to love the event you're going to learn a lot it's pretty incredible so any of these three things you can get at ramsy solutions.com

events and they all three are likely to

be sell outs well before so get your

tickets quickly on the debt-free stage

in the ramsy solutions headquarters

Lobby is Tyler and Jesse hey guys how

are you good how are you better than I

deserve man tell me where do you guys live Worcester Ohio cool what's that in

here uh akan akan all right cool and how

much debt have you guys paid 200

$189,000 wo how long did that take uh 44

months good for you and your range of income uh we started at 116 and now we

make 169 good what do you guys do for a

living uh I'm a firefighter and I'm a

I'm a physical therapist very cool awesome very cool what was the 289 what

kind of debt uh it was two car loans and

then most of it was a student loan wow

okay nice y'all good for you guys how

long y'all been married four years today

oh happy anniversary so they said it in unison

that was perfect yeah so great very cool

you guys so uh somebody comes out with a

bunch of student loans maybe Physical

Therapy could be I don't know a doctor's

possible doing a PT degree yeah and you

guys get married and you go okay cleanup

time tell me how that happened and what the conversation sounded like how'd you plug into Ramsey so I grew up uh my

parents did the Dave Ramsey um program

the baby steps and so when I graduated

in 2017 with my doctor's degree I asked

my dad I'm like what do I do about this and he said uh you need to read you know Total Money Money Makeover and you need

to get signed up for FPU it'll be the

best money you've ever spent and so I went to FPU a year before meeting Tyler

and then I met Tyler at work we started dating the next year we started talking

about marriage and I said okay I want

you to go through this course with me you need to know what comes with me

yes that's right that's right yeah so we

had the we had the talk the money talk

how long had you been dating before you disclose hundreds of thousands of student loan debt uh two months yeah get

this out of the way all right just see if he's a keeper or not right yeah so

great oh my gosh you guys okay so four four years you've you've been doing this

so pretty much since you've been married you guys have been on this okay so how hard was that because I feel like

especially when you have a new event like whether it's marriage or a baby or you graduate from college like whatever it is you kind of want to jump into a new season and just enjoy life so how

how hard was it being newlyweds knowing

like we're buckling down and doing this it it was rough I mean we got married uh

during the pandemic oh my gosh yeah and

so um my income actually reduced you got

married at the height of the pandemic

like about the time the quarantine started yeah we were on shutdown

whenever we got married yeah this is like this is mar this is the end of March yeah oh my gosh and it's your anniversary yeah whoa

okay so yeah so the whole pandemic you guys were doing this then yeah mhm wow

yeah trying to my income reduced by half

because my outpatient hours were reduced

um so it's just amazing because um I

actually found other opportunities um screening in the Ed on third shift um

going and you know doing cash based physical therapy in people's homes that didn't want to go you know out in the community um yeah God really showed up

yeah she got after it too wow you were

good isn't it good for y'all amazing wow

so you get married right at the quarantine and then you go wide open

into this thing uh so what was the

hardest part of the whole journey uh I

think the hardest part was just not playing the comparison game and walking

our own path you know we're at an age

right now where everybody in our life is

making different milestones and you know

we just had to celebrate ours you know through the dead Snowball the way it's

set up you can still celebrate while you're paying off your debt so yeah yeah

what do you think yeah yeah just um just

got to shut up and do it I mean you just

you know um I think what got me through was that I was hearing the de free screams of all these other people um who

you know lost a spouse or you know um

you know just different things hard life stuff during and you know like okay they

can do it what's my excuse what's our

excuse how much did you guys work would you say what was like at the peak how many hours a week was like the oh gosh

we we were like animals um we we we

would go whole weeks without seeing each other CU we work opposite schedules um

with my job I think I sometimes was like somewhere around 60 65 hours in a week

oh my gosh y yeah as a fireman I could

go upwards of 100 hours a week but you

know sometimes we get to sleep but not always it's not guaranteed by any stretch okay so besides work and income

what's the other part of this that you would tell somebody yeah the key's the

key what's the thing the number one thing to get out of debt oh um just just

take every opportunity you can to increase your income I know we did um we

just went after every certification we're at work anyways we're spending the hours anyways let's just do that too let's try to get you know our time worth

more um and then also to at home um just

making meals at home packing lunches um

we made our own laundry detergent I mean

just you know all these little things

that really add up yes and and just to

add on to that you know we're lucky

enough that the phase of life we're in we don't have children yet anything like

that so we took this time for a lot of

professional development like our life wasn't on hold really because we've

developed a lot so that's aw guys yeah

for sure for sure your incomes have increased permanently because of that so

so nice and no payments you're Heroes

well done so the first four years you worked your tail end off for four years you're 100% de free was it worth it yes oh yeah

yes it's amazing to walk into work and

know that we have the ball now this you

know every every you know dollar goes

towards our goals it's we're not paying some Bank you know it's amazing I that's

it yeah just put me in coach that's

right I love it well done well done so

proud of y'all who was cheering your own about your Dad yep yep our family our

friends um we definitely talked to people who gone through the steps and we're successful with it yeah yeah and

it's funny like you know at work I I

almost have like a second family we

brought some people around you know and they were cheering us on at the end too so it was awesome yeah that's great very

cool so great you guys well done guys

home run touchdown way to go Heroes hey

we've got a uh every dollar subscription

for you for the premium you probably already using it and that'll extend it for you and another one for you to give away for somebody that can't believe you really did this I'm I'm impressed with these numbers very hard work very hard

work she's not kidding lots and lots of hours she said it like six times but she's exactly right oh yeah really happened really happened all right it's

Tyler and Jesse from akan Ohio 289,000

paid off in 44 months making 116 to 169

count it down let's hear a debt free

Scream 3 2 1 we're dead free

yeah wo

way to go you guys and now their debt free scream is

permanently enshrined in the YouTube Hall of Fame to encourage other people

who are in the middle of their hard

journey telling you it's worth it this

is the Ramsey Show

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open phones this hour I'm Dave Ramsey your host thank you for joining us

today's question comes from Anonymous oh

I haven't heard from Anonymous in a while he used to write me all the

time usually doesn't have nice things to

say but let's see what Anonymous in Arkansas says it says how do you learn

discipline I spend so much of my income

on going out to eat I work overnights at

Walmart and make $20 an hour but my bank

account always is a Ras to zero I borrow

money from my paycheck before I get it

and use apps like Dave yeah there is one

to cash oh to get cash advance is it

really Named Dave yeah they named it after they did that on purpose oh no Dave oh gosh and Char app $5 for an

instant deposit I feel like I can't get

out of this $3,000 credit card hole that

I'm in I also owe the IRS around

$4,000 if I was disciplined with my

money I wouldn't be in the botom 27 I

need to get my stuff together

wow Anonymous that is

a

very I I think you have your stuff

together um my dad used to tell me that

when you recognize a problem 90% of the

problem is solved and so I think you're on a really

really good path here um I did the same

thing Anonymous um during the fouchy

pandemic I ate every d nut in a 50 m

radius and I looked down and there was a

thing growing on the front of me it looked like a belly it was ridiculous

there's still a little of it left but I haven't got rid of all of it but I got but I I lo I I said you know Dave you're

a mess Dave you're an idiot Dave you're

out of control if you would not eat everything

in sight you would not be the size of an elephant da an idiot you're making idiot

choices I was doing idiot stuff who you

are well I'm just saying not anid I did

not have an identity crisis never fear but but I mean the point is is that I look down just like you did and I said what's what I'm doing is not working mhm

I'm getting negative results for negative behavior I've got to change my

behavior that's a huge thing and I did I

hadn't had a donut since the fouy pandemic so and I lost 37 pounds and

I've walked every day for, 1473 days as

of this morning at least a mile up to five to seven miles in most days so uh

yeah I I get it I understand but what

what I what did I do there to change my

behav my my negative behaviors that were giving me negative results was I I said

what has to be true what has to change

well it's you know weight loss is a lot

like money it's a fairly simple concept

um you eat

less there it

is and you exercise more there it is and

so with money what are we going to do we're going to make more so you need to

probably be working more

and maybe even at a different place I don't know you might make more you might be able to find a better job and then

the second thing Anonymous is I would be

giving the every dollar app you can

download it for free if you want the

upgrade it's just a few dollars and it connects to your bank but that's the

world's best budgeting app and what the

budget does is it's making every one of

your dollars behave before you get

them that's the trick to budgeting mhm

is you say before it

occurs before the money comes into my

hand I'm going to already have spent it

on paper on purpose on the app or

whatever Y and that will give you

control then the discipline will come

from you saying I don't want to live

like this anymore so I'm going to live

like that I'm going to be the guy that

wrote this stuff down I'm going to be the guy that doesn't eat a donut I'm going to be the guy that doesn't S on his butt and watch Netflix he's going to get up and go walk four miles I'm going

to be the guy that does something different because I want a different result but you've got something to measure it against and in my case it was

the scales in your case it's some debt

and and you're written down budget will

give you tremendous motivation if you

really mean it and I'll be honest I've been doing this 32 years reading this

email from you Anonymous I think you

really mean it yeah and you see things

like I spend so much of my income on going out to eat so like the planning with your money you plan you plan food

though I mean like you know what I mean it's and just to say okay I'm going to meal plan on Sunday night and I'm going to know what I'm going to eat for breakfast Lun and dinner every single day and it's not going to be great food it's going to be cheap and it's going to be quick but I'm going to do that want

to go out for a drink I can't afford to yep and so it is my buddies want to go out to eat I can't afford to and it's like a muscle it takes time it takes

time to build it and so there's going to be but Anonymous that couple that was just up here that was making $170,000 a

year they they made their lunch and took

it to work mhm hello and they paid off $289,000 in

debt and change is hard though and I think like oh it is hard well and we laugh at you sometimes or I laugh at you

sometimes because you're like change just change you do this like

clapping thing and I'm like but it but here's the deal it's it it is it is

difficult because there is a norm that you set in it's a human experience of like what I know is normal is

comfortable even though I know it's wrong and that change it's going that's

almost the scarier step it's almost the scarier step to say I'm going that's why I say baby step one sometimes the hardest because like I'm engaging in something new and so you know in a sense

changing to do something that feels hard

is hard yes but change is not

necessarily hard if you change from uh

driving a horrible car to driving a great car that's not hard yeah that's fair I guess so that's a good change so

that's not a hard change okay if you change from living in a dump to moving into a million dollar house that's not a hard change change is easy when it's but

and so what you feel benefit it's when the change has sacrif what you got to do is you have to say is this change is this hard change taking me to a better place then I got to then I got to work my way through it you know is it worth it it's like the bumper sticker when I'm

you know I'm fat from the donuts I see this bumper sticker and it says nothing tastes as good as it is nothing tastes

as good as it feels to be thin and so don't put it in your mouth

you know it's that kind of thing you cannot run a Big M and so you can't do enough exercise to eat Big Macs it doesn't work so um

that's it and so these things you you

know you get okay I'm going to I'm going to live like no one else so that later I

can live and give like no one else no discipline seems Pleasant at the time but it yields a harvest of righteousness

and so instead of sitting down and looking at my numbers and going

well this can't be

done I you know there's no way instead I

start looking at my numbers and go what has to change what must be different

okay we're not eating out we're going to have a written game plan we're going to look at increasing our income and when

you align yourself to all of those

because the belief that you're getting

to that that those are going to take you to a better place you'll instantly be

motivated no one exercises well I won't

say that most people don't exercise

because it's

fun some of you do but you're sick but

most people exercise because it's good for for you but you feel good though you

happy you get a HB you get high off when you're done

name that movie but I'm just saying it's not because it's like woohoo you know

and so there's I mean yesterday morning

it was raining I did not want to walk it

was not fun I did not want to walk what

I wanted was the result more than I

wanted the action mhm yeah I can't tell

you that was fun you should lift yeah I

should do something but yeah but I'm but

at least I did that so you could do

you're trying to find something I can do indoors I know but anyway the so uh

anyway the point being anonymous I

really think you're on to something I

really think there's good things are going to come to your life uh because

you you know discipline no discipline

seems Pleasant at the time his question

was how do you learn discipline but it

yields a harvest of righteousness the way you focus on it is you focus on the

Harvest of what you're going to get but there's also the day in and day out

consistency that it just becomes a part of who you are James CLA talks about how new habits you you just take on a new identity I am a person that Fs in the

blank I am not a person that borrows money yep I am a person that does not have credit cards I'm a person who takes their lunch to work that is who I am right I mean like it's like these new identity markers I'm a person with four

pieces of plastic in my pocket two debit

cards my driver license my handgun carry

permit these are the only plastic I own

I don't have any other plastic

that's the person that I am and you know

somebody says well you need to borrow money to do that well I can't do that cuz I I I don't I'm a person that

doesn't borrow money MH and so you're a

person that has discipline you're a person that works extra you're a person

that doesn't eat out when they're broke

you're a person that doesn't go to happy hour when you should be working overtime

you're a person you know and that you you're right that James Clear change of identity and atomic habits is a big deal

Anonymous I think this is a fabulous question and I'm really encouraged for

you this is the Ramsey Show

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brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love

and create actual amazing relationships

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number

one bestselling author and co-host of

the super popular smart money happy hour

on the Ramsey networks is my co-host

today also my daughter phone number 8825

5225 Victoria starts this hour in

Portland Oregon hey Victoria what's up

yeah hey daav and Rachel thanks so much for taking my call sure how can we help

yeah my fiance and I are getting married

in July uh just this week we started

your Financial Peace University and

within the last month we've been meeting

weekly to go over our personal budget through the every dollar app uh just uh

for personal Deb my fiance has about 4,000 left on his student loans that should be paid off in two months cool my

fian my fiance is a contractor he owns a

construction company uh he brings home

about not brings home but his salary is about 65 annually I work full-time I

have a side business that I recently started with my employer and I bring

home the same announce you guys are doing great congratulations thank you my question is

how should we approach business

debt who has business

debt uh we both do so my fiance has

business debt he has about 180 and then in my what did he buy on a

lot of equipment so he has an excavator

two trucks dump trailer a loan and a

credit card and there may there may be

another loan okay and what about you

calling yeah so for me mine mine might

be a little bit unique um my business

partner who is my employer he uh has

funded 30,000 into it into the

business I'm sorry your business partner

is your employer that those things are inconsistent well your like day job and then you guys started a business is that right correct yes corrects outside of my

40 hours and so that person put that

person put $330,000 into the business

that you started together correct how is

that debt then they invested into

it uh well I guess it's not really then

is it because I'm not paying it back

right now you you're not supposed to is

it supposed to be repaid by the partnership before profits come out or

something I that's how that's how I've

always assumed is that it would he would get paid off PA we not have an agreement as to when it how it will be paid off I

guess for that one no we don't okay you

need to get one by the end of the

weekend okay we need to know what's

going on here this is the kind of stuff that destroys Partnerships and businesses okay she has one set of

expectations and you have another and

then all of a sudden the thing gets blindsided so you guys need to determine that very very quickly usually it would

be something like a percentage of the

profits go to the debt until the debt is

cleared okay that would be a normal

thing and until there's profit profit

there wouldn't be any it's not debt

until their investment their investment is recouped is really actually the

terminology okay okay now over on his

side he needs to quit buying

equipment yep yep as of a correct

correct and he's on board with that not buying additional equipment yeah he's got way too much he may need to sell some um the now he took a salary of

65,000 what was his actual

profit H I don't know um so next week I

in our budget meeting we're going to be going over his business and then I'm

actually going to be set up taking

QuickBook classes and I'm going to be taking over that for his business to

start helping out okay all right so um

probably probably we need to find half

of debt and equipment to

sell CU I don't think his business I

don't think he's got another 100,000 coming out of that business so I don't think he's making much money considering

the amount of debt he has so I'm

scared $180,000 on a $65,000 net is

really scary right that's what I mean 80,000 I

can see my way to work through that so

I'm selling about half of this stuff give or take and you know try to get try

to get a bunch of the debt paid off that way now then let's let me give you one

other nuance and then let's address your question okay the Nuance is this they're

technically in both of these situations

are not business debt because he signed personally for th

that equipment right the bank doesn't think

he has a business the bank thinks it's

him the law think the law thinks it's

him and you didn't borrow money so you

don't have debt you have an investor that has a recoup plan on the investment

before you guys divy up profits or as you divy up profits or something you got to figure that out but his his equipment

is personal debt that he uses for

business that's the legal technical

thing that that does matter because you

know he it's him that'll be bankrupt if

this goes sideways not his

business that's what matters so now once

we said all of that then we say we're going to get the Quick Books going you're doing very good stuff Toria you're asking all the right questions you're doing all the right things congratulations and you've got good answers to everything so far um now when

you're doing the QuickBooks what we suggest when I'm teaching our entree leadership brand and he can start

listening to the entree leadership podcast if he wants to is if he wants to learn business stuff from us it's how we

teach small businesses to grow their business like we grew this one when I

find that they have debt I do it

differently than I do with your personal

credit card debt okay okay what we do there is we say

after he makes a basic living wage out

of the business which now he's getting married

you know he might make that be

40,000 okay because put with your income

you guys can probably make it at home if

he's doing that everything after that

we're going to call profit so pretend like he was just a

manager at this business and got paid 40,000 and I was the owner then whatever

was left from a keeping books standpoint

income minus expenses including the $40,000 manager is net profit you know

that right right cor okay so of that net

profit figure whatever it is and you can adjust the salary to be whatever you want it to be but but of that net profit

I want the vast majority of it each

month to go to debt reduction and the

rest of it to go to retained earnings

which is business talk for savings account okay okay now so most companies will do

something like 7030 or 8020 so like 80%

of your net profit after you take a living wage goes towards the debt 20

goes to build up your retained earnings

because you have to have some cash in business to operate and how much um like how many

months of that would be of retain earning month he's gonna every

month take a percentage every month take

a percentage of the net profit whatever

that is a bunch of it 80% whatever set

the formula ahead of time y'all look at

that and figure it out 70% 80% whatever

is going to go to debt the other's going to go and retained earnings if retained

earnings gets too big and SC you know

you got too much money in the bank reach over and pay off a piece of equipment right but I don't think that's going to happen I don't think that's going to be your issue you're probably going to be short of cash with the formula I'm

giving you you're probably not going to have as much as you want especially now that you can't borrow money anymore to buy buy more equipment you're going to want cashh to do that after you get the other equipment paid off but that's a

formula that'll work for you I think you

guys are on the track to success well done this is the ramsy show

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Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host today Cassie is with us in

Denver hi Cassie welcome to the ramsy

show hi thanks for taking my call sure

what's up um so I'm looking for advice on how

to improve my relationship with my

husband as we struggle with burnout and

feeling of the feeling of equity during

baby steps two and three um so we've been doing the baby

steps for eight months and had our first baby seven months ago and prior to that

it was easy to feel like equal contributors to the household in relationship which is important to us

but now he's working extra and I'm doing more at home with the baby even though

we're both working really hard it's just hard to get that feeling that we're

we're both in the same spot we're both dealing with the burnout right now and just kind of looking for any advice you guys might have you're not burned out you have a new baby yeah it's really hard I'm keeping one of

my grandkids tonight it's

hard yeah I'm keeping the littlest one

it's hard yeah because they they take up

a lot of energy they can't do anything

can they they're completely

helpless yeah and I guess you know me

taking on more of the household stuff I

I I'm feeling it burnt out than he is

well you got a brand new thing you've never had this gig before right if you guys weren't working

baby step two and three just having a

newborn it ain't no

picnic yeah and it's a different kind of

exhaustion yeah what you're doing C you

never sleep right yeah it's that and it's just

a yeah I mean it's yeah it's a lot it's

a lot of stress uh how much debt do you guys have left uh 39,000 okay do you

guys have timeline on when you think it'll be paid off so we're actually we know we're

getting inheritance probably 50 to

60,000 this summer but we're trying to live like we're not getting that trying to make the sacrifices now

so we don't go back into that and then also we don't have a house so the end

goal is a down payment for our house the more the more you can pay off the more the inheritance can go towards the house I love that yeah exactly that's a good

yeah okay so the way not number one we

have brand new baby is a different kind

of thing I'm not I'm not poking fun I'm

I'm empathizing it's a real you you've

got it's one of the toughest times for

exhaustion and a different kind of fatigue than you'll ever have any other time in your life okay as a matter of

fact every day it gets better yeah after this it really does

the night last night y there you go I'm not see I'm not kidding every day gets

better it's precious and it's wonderful

but it's exhausting

and so it's a different kind of thing than just we're working our tails off to get out of debt it's also a different kind of thing because your body's adjusting after having had a

child and so that the physical

attributes of that um affect this

discussion too in a very real way and

that's wonderful too but it's also a

very real part of the chemistry of what's going on it's just tiring yeah just tired you get tired yeah Cass um so

your husband are you working outside at all home or you are you there full-time

oh yeah I work I work full-time too and

and so yeah do you have you guys sat

down cuz even my husband and I we did this um when I was working and we had

kids where it was like what what are the

things around the house that I need help

with that I feel like oh my gosh like I can't do all of this and what are the

areas that he could step in right and

it's and everything's for a season life is going to change when when you know even if you have a second baby it just it changes Dynamic again um but have you

guys sat down and had those conversations because I think to the

responsibility at times especially if

you're a driver as a like a you're a

strong driver as a woman it can feel like oh yeah I'll just take care of it all I can do it and asking for help is

really difficult and so have you guys

sat down and talked about that yeah we have and it's honestly

gotten better than since I originally wrote in already it's improved from

talking I think it's it's hard cuz he

works a physical job and M's desk job

and then we just start getting into that hole it doesn't matter a relaxing no no

I think that's where you start splitting hairs cuz and there's a different type

of you did a physical thing having a

baby well and her job well her but her

job is a desk job right now you're at work all day and then you got a baby yeah I'm like it's yeah it's it's a it's

kind of all like we're all in this together it's not this oh keeping

scorekeeping of well you do this kind of

job here and I do this and you you know

what I mean like it can get into that and I think it's kind of this like whole mindset of like we're both exhausted so

what is the plan of action for us to get

through even just daytoday the basics

and necessities of stuff um and feeling

some level of that control in the household because I can because it is chaotic I mean it's it's really difficult um but when you have that stuff laid out and I think that's what Wiston and I did we kind of blew up the whole like responsibility roles and

responsibility of what we kind of thought and kind of assumed each other and for a short period of time we're going to make it whatever it needs to be yeah yeah it's kind of all hands on deck

feel and we could change it back and forth and we could do it for two weeks and change it again yep but um I I think

you're you know when you said Cassie you all sat down and started talking about but I I want to give you

um permission I I don't think it's burnout

I think it's just tired yeah okay burnout is I don't

emotionally that there's no light at the end of the tunnel except an oncoming train you actually see your way through

this you're just freaking

tired yeah that's fair yeah and and

sometimes when you have to pick up something out of the floor or take out

the trash or something because he went to sleep cuz he just worked a 12-hour shift or something like that you know

it's easy to it when you're tired you

get grouchy at least I do I'm grouchy

sometimes when I'm not tired so a little bit today so uh but yeah the

uh uh you know you see what I'm saying so uh I I I just want to give you I want you guys to give your permiss give yourself permission to say we are in a very unusual season of life it's a lot of Grace We're trying to do two very

hard things at the same time get out of

debt by working very intensely and deal

with a newborn both of these are heavy

lifting together it's really heavy and

it won't be for long yeah okay and and then that helps

me if I'm in if if I'm at the the end of

the game and I'm exhausted I got to run one more play I got to do one more thing

I got to push one more mile to finish that run whatever it is I'm at the end

as long as I can see the end I'm not

burned out I'm just

tired yeah and you're there you can see

the end and you and and you've done a

honestly from what you're describing I think you're both doing great I just think you haven't given yourself enough credit for how much crap

you've been going through I mean how many hard this is It's hard the only

thing we and to your point Cassie

marriage changes so drastically after you have a baby I'm like your your marriage looks different in a sense I'm like the lack of sleep the connection like all of that that you're talking about is so normal so so normal um so

yeah I would say even for you guys like find a couple of things I don't know for for us it just helped levity like if we could just find levity and laughter and like things just to like relieve some of

that tension and pressure uh that c

buildup I think is is really helpful cuz

you guys may not be at a place where like oh yeah weekly date nights I feel like some people are like do a weekly date night I'm like do you know how crazy how crazy our life is like we don't we're not in a season to do that

but like what's up what's something fun and delone will probably Dr John Delon will probably kill me for saying this but I'm like even like even like a

stupid TV show that it's like the thing that you guys do you sit down together and you watch it makes you laugh like what's a thing that just can bring some

levity to you guys I think is um is is

always helpful especially in these seasons and if yeah and if they're just now sleeping through the night at 7 months you're it's just it's exhausting

yeah yeah but you guys are doing a really good job Cassie and it doesn't last forever and um but I know I know

exactly how you feel because it's it's a lot but I I it also helps to put the

right language on it and burnout is not the right language tired is the right

language and I and and by the way it's

it's you're have a right to be tired

that's what we're trying to tell you um but it's also worth it so keep going you

know figure it out sit down parse out

the chores go honey tonight I just can't

do this I'm going to bed I mean whatever

or or yeah I you got to you got to take

the midnight you know I can't do it you

know whatever and and you just go back

and forth with that and you just work your way through till the end on this and you do you do figure out what you can do what you can't do and keep handing it back and forth handing it back and forth until you get across the goal line and you'll get there you'll

get there uh I think you're probably a

lot stronger than you feel like you are

matter of fact I'm sure you are this is the Ramsey Show

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Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my

co-host host today on the debt free

stage in the lobby of ramsy solutions

headquarters John is with us hey John how are you better than I deserve Dave

very cool and where do you live sir Seattle Washington very good and how much debt have you paid $59,000 696 or $

59,6 n6 I love it and how long did this

take 3 years 9 months 27 days all right

and your range of income during that time 20,000 to start and then after a

lot of side hustles and a little bit of over time 60,000 very cool what are you

doing now I'm a youth pastor and I'm

also a financial coach part-time with

your uh Ramsey preferred coaching cool

so dare to be different Romans 122 yep

all right be not conformed to this world but be transformed by the renewing of

your mind amen yeah good I love it one

of my favorite scriptures good for you

well done well done well done what kind of debt was the 60,000 student loans oh

baby youth pastor with student loans yep

making no money did you get out of

school and looked up three years ago nine months and said I got to do this or

what yeah so kind of like everyone or I

was a high schooler didn't really have any plans I jumped straight into student

loans went to a private private Christian School and um didn't actually

think about it I was like oh signing okay whatever I don't really care what I was doing two and a half years in I'm in

my dorm and I see this book and it's

five College mistakes you can't afford to miss by Rachel Cruz andth I was like

that's a good book and I looked at it and the first one of the chapters was College choice and it said public inate

versus private out of state and that's

what I did and I was like oh no what did

I do and I looked and I saw I

accumulated 60,000 and I was only

halfway through my degree so I just had

this holy crap like full of Shame full

of hopelessness like what am I going to do and uh during my part-time College

job I was actually um kind of looking

and I scrolled upon on a uh Dave Ramsey

you know bald guy giving someone Hope on

uh YouTube and I just jumped all in just

started consuming the podcast the YouTube and um I realized wait a minute

I can pay for my degree online while

working full-time so I actually stopped

it was December 2019 right before covid

so I did I did online before it was cool

that wasn't a plan but everyone kind of followed my footsteps not really but start yep but honestly the co pause

actually helped me kind of accelerate my debt payment but I made 1,600 a month to

start off and it was nothing wow and 150

bucks a month for groceries um instacart

door Dash house sitting cat sitting

anything and everything um but long

story short I even worked for a car

dealership for part of it um but using

Ken Coleman's materials I realized I have a passion for helping high schoolers uh find and follow Jesus and

that became just a really evident through the Kent Coleman materials just

uh Community speaking into my life as well as oh wait I also have this passion

for finances since finances is the

biggest and common reasons for divorce

so I then kind of did that so now I'm

actually at a church uh Bethany poop uh

we do uh FPU which I love because I get

to Point my high schoolers to it um but

a new thing now that I'm debt free and I can do is every senior that graduates

I'm going to give a a copy of The Total Money Makeover and say hey I was an

idiot with money and I didn't follow

God's ways of handling money I was a terrible Steward for the his resources

for his kingdom and for his glory please

learn from me and to talk about what scripture actually says about it um to

also like help them set them up for success and to like recognize that your

decisions you know have um the impact

your future so that's man you're amazing

well done sir so great well done how old

are you 25 all right all right very cool

good for you good for you who was your biggest cheerleader while you're going through this I had a bunch of cheerleaders my mom and my sister um I

got a list daav and stas toosy the

rental house I'm allowed to stay in my community group The gouges for my landscaping job accountability Jeff Brink Sean McArthur Matt Rand Lily and

Tony duck almost like he knew I was going to ask you I've listened to so

many of these we've had this conversation so many times um but I just

wasn't on the other end yeah um but one

person in particular I have a guitar

pick that says never give up pork chop

and pork chop was my family middle name

and um July 21st um this year uh my dad

passed away oh my and um he was one of

my biggest cheerleaders and um I got out

of that in October and he didn't get to

see it and um actually actually he did

you're right um but he sent me art

anytime you were on Fox news Dave he would like send me articles he's like John you're kicking this Dead's butt keep going and um he uh he modeled for

me sacrifice growing up and um it was

hard man I there were times I didn't want to wake up early to go landscaping and do all that stuff but Dad sacrificed

for me and my sister growing up so I had

that picture you know beachel says more is caught than taught and I got that

from my Dad wow and

um that's amazing I miss him and I'm

actually want to kind of dedicate this to him because um I really miss him but

yeah you got the T-shirt done that's great I like it I like it I like the pick on there that's very cool so good

stuff good stuff man so for you I mean

your dad's story integrated throughout this I know was was a difficult part of

the journey but for you being you know

in your mid 20s kind of figuring all

this out and wanting to do something extreme like get out of debt right and all this and all these student loans

what was the hardest thing like what was it the work you mentioned the Landscaping like what was the thing that was like man that that was the difficult that was the difficult part I think it was everything it was submitting to a

process that's worked for millions of people and I think the key for me well

it was saying no working a lot like

being okay with like I can't go

skydiving or can't go on this can't do

that but I realized it was like you know

what I want to be 25 without any student

loans and I get to I want to be a good

Steward of God's resources for his kingdom and His glory um and I want to

model it you and don't let anyone look down at you

because you're young with set an example for the Believers speech and life and love and faith and Purity and I want to do that for my students but I think

submitting to a process that's biblical

that's clear that has clear set paths

and I think there's something about that that impacts your mental health your finances your relationships and there's something about God's ways of handling

life that not just thinking about it but

actually doing it is really powerful and

you get to reap the fruit that comes from it so y but it's awesome it is it

it cuts through it cuts through quick and Deep Well Done proud of you man

thanks man good work good work I know your mom is proud of you your sister's proud of you and your daddy's proud of you well done thank you for your mentorship so excellent excellent stuff

excellent stuff okay so when someone

says what's the key to getting out of debt what do you tell them ownership

ownership I think ownership Vision um

for me like I realized I didn't really

know what I was doing when I signed those papers but I did and I have to own that um but I'm you know I was the

problem but now I get to tell my clients

I was like hey you were the problem but good news you're the solution you know you can do it um and the power of the

renewing of your mind it's like yes the decision is hard but you can do it you

can rewire your brain you can do not be

conformed to the patterns of this world and honestly dare to be different I think we as followers of Jesus should be different in areas every area of our life not just our finances but our relationships our marriages every area

of your life so that's why I wrote dare to be different um and do not be

conformed to the patterns of this world so amen it's awesome Amen well done sir

thank you congratulations very well done

all right John from Seattle

$60,000 in student loan debt paid off in

three years and N months making

$20,000 a year up to 60,000 with lots of

side hustles yeah don't tell me you

can't do this those numbers that's tough

that's some tough numbers right there

well done sir very well done count it

down let's hear a de free Scream 3 2 one

I'm death

free

yeah love it that's as good as it gets

boys and girls love it love it love it

this is the Ramsey Show

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our scripture of the day Proverbs 13:12

hope deferred makes the heart sick but a

longing fulfilled is a tree of life

Tommy lorta said there are three kinds of people in this world people who make it happen people who Watch What Happens

and people who wonder what

happened Elizabeth is in Colorado

Springs hey Elizabeth welcome to the

Ramsey show Hello thank you so much I'm

excited to talk to you all you too how can we help um we are facing in the next

several months um some changes in our

finances we have not lived on a written

budget yet we've just kind of lived in our means but I am tired of being

panicky every night wondering where my money is and just now going into this

season of uncertainty I don't know how to start building that budget and and

what's the season of uncertainty again sorry may have missed that um yeah so we

we just had our third child um and um

right before she was born we found out

that our daycare provider is um moving

so now we have to enroll our kids in a

new daycare which is essentially doubling our daycare day excuse me

daycare Bills starting in July um we are

also any day now going to start

receiving these bills from the hospital so um you know just kind trying to figure out what those are going to be um

while also still paying off our debts

and you know trying to provide for our family okay good news Elizabeth none of that is uncertain it's all very certain

okay it's happening right it's it's not

like you can't predict it you can know it it's it may be hard but it's not

uncertain it may be and the amount may

be uncertain with the with the medical bills do you well I mean you know no it's not I mean you know you've got insurance and you can tally up what the

what your co-pay is and figure out what your bills are going to be you shouldn't on a normal labor and delivery if you've got normal Insurance you shouldn't have a huge bill there but it's not it's not

one that's going to break your back but what it amounts to is is just as you decided to tackle this you had three

things come at you that were extra well

two one is I want to get out of debt

that didn't come at you but the other two things came at you so um you know

what you're saying is it's going to be it was really going to be hard to budget anyway now it's going to be super hard

right not to budget to make the budget

work with the income we have and so what

you're going to have to do is look at and say what what there may be something

that has to give um like you landed on

this daycare that's double you may have

to keep looking that one may not fit

your budget that one might not we are on

yeah we're on the wait lists for other

closer cheaper options but the one the

one that you had was some kind of it was a friend or something what was it yeah

yeah it was just it was a stay-at-home mom that just wanted pocket money basically so okay you got to keep looking for that yes to replace the one

you got and then it's not double how

old's your baby how old's the third uh

she's three weeks oh wow okay yeah

wonder you just had the baby all right

so yeah I I think what happens is as you

say all right we're going to we're going to lay out the written game plan and and

the written game plan is food is first

shelter is second lights and water is

third and then with what's left we try

to figure out all this other stuff right

okay and so cuz you will emotionally be

in a better place if you know you have a place to live the heat is on the water

is on and um there's food on the table

now the rest of it a Monopoly game and

when will you go back to work Elizabeth or or are the other two older ones I

guess they're still in daycare yeah

they're still in daycare I go back mid

June um and then with that I'm going to

keep home my oldest when the younger who go to daycare until she starts preschool

which we also have to build into the budget and like when she'll start in mid August then okay wow okay yeah so I

think I think yeah what we're saying is just the good news is you're going to

see all this coming and you're going to happen to it instead of it happening to

you MH but it is still going to be tight

and it's going to be stressful but not nearly as stressful as if you added chaos to it right so that is a relief

yeah and I would find out for even like the as much as you can get the facts I

think is helpful Elizabeth so even the medical stuff you like oh my gosh the medical bills are going to hit figure out how much those are and see okay as

we if we do a payment plan like you know can we are we able to pay off you know x amount next month um and really be

really really specific even for you because there's going to be so much change with you going back to work in June another kid starts a different preschool uh in August like even do if

you do the every dollar app which if you hold hold on the line uh Emily will pick

up and we'll get you the premium version for a year but go ahead and build out a

couple of months of budgets looking out knowing that these months ahead that the

budgets will change but at least you can kind of get a plan of like okay this is what it looks like here here and here it is amazing when you have facts down um

and those numbers are actually down on paper it's not just in your head it does

stress it low the stress it gives you a lot of Peace yeah okay no that's exactly

what I need yeah cuz when you again when you know the house payments paid the lights and water is on and there's food on the table then you can go oh okay now

the rest of this is

inconvenient now we know that we can pay

the medical bills and even the preschool in installments is that considered debt

should we try to pay that off preschool

is not preschool is just you're paying it monthly that's like paying your electric bill monthly I mean that's you're paying for it as you use it but uh the medical

bills would be debt if you can clear it clear it you have any money saved yes

yes oh yeah we're we're fine financially I just know I I don't know what things are going to look like right now so yeah

okay well the more the more you do what Rachel said and dig up that information and lay it out in a very certain way

yeah and have you guys ever done a really detailed budget like how much we spend for groceries are out to eat kids

activities like you're really line item by line item have you guys ever done that no and and that's always frustrated

me and panicked me

so checklist item yeah and go back

Elizabeth like the even in your bank

account the last two or three months and

just kind of average out okay here's all my grocery store runs and just take a sheet of paper and just write them all down and divide it you know and just say

Okay on average on average this is what

we were spending at the grocery before we were budgeting right and plug those numbers in and then usually when you're not budgeting your overspending in categories not realizing it and then say

okay if we really were on a plan what

could I limit that to what could I shrink that down to right and so it's kind of just ends up being this puzzle piece but you'll go back you'll run some numbers look back at your checking account for gas how much you guys fill up on gas every month like it sounds so

granular and detailed but it is so so

helpful and with every dollar it's going

to be attached to your bank account so when those transactions come in you just drag and drop them into a category and

it does the math for you and it just shows you here's how much is left in the

month and and just having that control like it is it's amazing it really is and

it'll take you guys a few months to get it down it won't be perfect um and you

and your husband are both looking at these numbers and you're both carrying the weight of the decisions in the

household both of you are looking at it

you may be the one that writes the checks or he may be the one I don't care

but both of you were looking at it and saying oh if you're going to have an old crap moment we do it as a couple if we're going to have a victory moment we do it as a couple how much you guys make

a year Elizabeth we make 220 220 okay

any debt um we've got 50 um and a a car

a home repair and some land so okay and

how much um uh how much do you have in

savings um about

25 okay yeah you guys are in great shape

Elizabeth I think you're I think you're doing better than you think you are but follow the baby steps throw some of that 25,000 once you get those medical bills

and kind of know pay the medical bills when they come in and then let's start cleaning up the rest of the debt and build a good strong

emergency fund in your case is probably

50,000 so if you had 50,000 in the bank

and no payments but a house payment and a written game plan where every dollar had an assignment and you and your husband had agreed to it your stress level is going to go down 90% that would be incredible yeah that's

why we call it Financial

Peace yeah you're doing you're you're

really asking all the right questions yeah this is going to turn out well for you proud of you good stuff you're going

to get it good for you well done well

done well done that's how you work a lot

of new babies the show it was a baby

show I know a lot of a lot of ones but

that's great and it is funny how those

different how different life events can

come up and and then you look at everything and you're like oh my gosh I was stressed about that I want that to change I see this and then the domino effect of yep of really helping your

life overall it it happens it's a

beautiful thing it's a very John delones

there we go love it good job Rachel that

puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the

books we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the

Prince of Peace Christ Jesus

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## 224. The Ramsey Show (Replay from May 25, 2021)


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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality number one best-selling author of the book business boutique is my co-host today

as we take your questions at triple eight eight two five five two two five the call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it triple eight eight two five five two two five christy is also in olympia washington and is our first caller of the hour hi christy how are you i'm good how are you dave better than i deserve what's up okay um i'm a little nervous um

so bear with me um i've been dying i think i've been dying to have a reason to call you and i finally do um we have a house in california that we're currently renting out my husband's in the military we bought the house before he joined um so we are renting it out currently we're

not making any money on it um we considered raising the rent just to make ends meet but my question is we're due to we're on track to move again in six months to new mexico

um ultimately we would love to be back in california back into our hometown should we sell it yes

and i knew that was going to be your answer but i didn't know what you thought with the current market what you thought it would be and um let's try let's try reverse engineering it okay you're in the military and you're moving from city to city and you're not going to be in california for at least five more years correct and you don't own a house there

let's pretend you don't own a house there and you woke up one more and thought you know what i'm going to go over in this little town in california and buy a rental house that i don't make any money on

you would never do that right and yet you have so let's undo it sell it

and and okay so now we currently might be um profiting like a hundred thousand would we should we just put that into something and let it sit there so when we do come back to california we got a big chunk of change to put down on a house or should we buy something in new mexico that make a great house fund do you have any diving debt though no no debt

we have um 30 000 in the savings wonderful okay yeah i would just take whatever profits you have of course pay your taxes on it and set it aside in a um future real estate mutual fund put in a mutual fund and just in your in your mind you could kind of mark that file that's my house fund for the future and you can keep adding to

it by the way if you want to that wouldn't hurt anything and by the way there's not a law that says that you're necessarily going to end up back in california when you're done five years ago you never dreamed you'd be where you are right now

that's true we do want to be back in our hometown with family that would be our goal and that's and that's why we have a smaller mortgage right now with that house i would just be afraid of coming back to california and and then getting into a bigger mortgage than before just because of the prices well the problem is you're going to lose money between now and

then and you're going to wish you had just not had to fool with this whole thing you're better off not long-distance landlording you're better off not fooling with this it doesn't make sense and so um and we're not i mean i know

it's your goal to be back there but no one knows i mean five years is a long time a lot of stuff happens in five years yeah things may change dave you use this example a lot so speak to the principal at play there because regardless of the circumstances christie's question was about the house but i hear you say that a lot okay let's reverse engineer it

if this was not true whatever the circumstances are would you go do it would you go buy it would you create it the answer is always no right that the question answers no no no necessarily i mean you know uh if i didn't own a ski boat i'd be buying one this week because i'm going to the lake this weekend right but i'm saying something that someone's trying to get out of

i guess i mean the point is she do i keep it or do i sell it yes and you can ask that about anything an investment you can ask it about a ski boat you can ask it about um whatever but if you look at something and you say if i didn't already own that i wouldn't go buy it for the very reasons that you wouldn't go buy

it you're not using it you don't like it it's about investment it's whatever it's the same reasons you wouldn't keep it that was what i was going to ask so whenever you ask the question if this weren't true would you go do it are there ever circumstances where that doesn't apply so you're saying it's like if the answer is yes i would go do this today anyway

then then you'd keep then you know okay you keep it okay so for instance let's say um the the first place this always comes up is within a pure investment like let's say let's say you um bought stock in i'll just make up a company home depot okay about stock at home depot and let's say you bought it at 75 dollars a share

and it went down to 50 a share and you say gosh i'm gonna wait on it to come back up i go well would you buy stock at 50 a share yeah because i've got real reason to think it's going to come up right then you would sit and wait to come up and you say oh no i wouldn't buy the 50 a share i wish i hadn't bought

it at 75 dollars a share because i think it's going to go down then why then why are you falsely waiting on it to come back up to be your measure of when you sell it you need to say you don't analyze it based on the past you analyze it based on the future yeah okay you're forward-looking with your decisions and going okay if i wouldn't do that again now

then i don't keep doing it just because of the past yeah and that's an investment is called a sunk cost analysis what you've put into it your cost is irrelevant as to whether you keep it virtually irrelevant i mean you may have some tax implications but it's virtually irrelevant the the investment analysis should be and for that matter the position of a boat should be the future of that not my family's always had a boat i've always had a boat

this boat's not been in the water for 10 years it sits in my garage but but because of the past i'm going to continue to keep this thing in the garage yeah okay well that's dumb yeah but if you're going to use it this weekend and you've always used it in the summer then you would go get a boat or you would keep your boat in that case

so you're looking forward with all of your decision-making analysis uh not the past the weight of the emotions the weight of the cost of the item not that and so you know if you would go and buy a small house in a small town in california because you're afraid real estate prices are going to go up and if you didn't own it now and you would go do that now

i wouldn't suggest that but if you would do it right then maybe you would keep it different and that's where we see it the most every time i host with you it's always around real estate i had a house i'm holding the house now i'm renting out the house and it's another state and the house is almost always inherited into that situation meaning no one set out in those situations to be a landlord right right it's a landlord by default is where most of those questions come from yes

i became a landlord by default i got married we moved into her house but we kept mile house as a rental that's landlord by default we're in the military we moved we bought a house everywhere we've been and every time we move off we turn it into a rental property that's not i decided that's going to be my rental investment strategy it's landlord by default yeah and it's not wise

it almost

never leads you to a good real estate purchase yeah or keeping the right piece of real estate as an investment uh i i

own one piece of property that i formerly lived in right now and it's a great rental and i would buy it again as a rental so i i passed the acid yeah but but you know there but but the house i currently live in would not be a great rental yeah it's too stinking ridiculous you know so not a good idea so it's going to be sold yeah no that's the deal this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is the co-host of the ramsey show today

the christy wright show is where you can hear her on her podcast it's where faith meets personal development so you can have a bigger faith and a better life get the encouragement that you want the tough love truth you need

to connect with god take control and enjoy your life new episodes every tuesday on youtube and anywhere you listen to podcasts the christy wright show be sure and check it out phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five our question of the day comes from blinds.com they have a 100 satisfaction

guarantee means even if you mismeasure or pick the wrong color they'll remake your blinds for free you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal today's question comes from nema in maryland my husband and i have no debt we have a significant savings account considering our income

and my husband is super responsible with the budget the problem is that i can't stand to budget i hate the accountability the time it takes and how confusing it is besides for just sucking it up and telling myself to be a big girl what can i do to shift my mindset and my actions this is interesting to me because i'm curious i feel like there's more there of why don't

you like it because it really shouldn't be that confusing especially if you have no debt and you are using something simple like every dollar where it's actually fun to drag and drop your expenses and their categories and um you know i don't know i don't know if you don't if you don't know why something matters you don't want to do it but if you could see the payoff of how

you actually control your money versus it controlling you then the means to the end becomes worth it i don't know what do you think dave what what else is she saying in that question um

but i'm not sure uh that there's obviously a lot of possibilities number one um yeah you need to know why you're doing it uh because otherwise it's not confusing it's really not that hard and it doesn't take that much time once you start doing it so it really does come down to the accountability

and uh you know so if you're self-admitting i'm a princess and i don't want to be told no even by my own self for my own good then you might as well eat a box of donuts at every meal and be 800 pounds i mean if you have no self-control whatsoever yeah and no accountability to

for your own benefit yeah i mean you know it's just it's just misbehavior it's just immaturity at that point but i don't think that's really what it is here um i'm kind of thinking that that you know i'm a spender and i learned to love the budget because it gives me permission to spend that's what i'm saying i wonder if what she's saying without saying it is her

and her husband don't see the budget the same so like for her she doesn't feel the freedom to put in the budget what she wants to spend money and feels that we have money to spend on i don't think she's got a voice in this yeah but she hasn't bothered to take it either she's copping out yeah yeah you know i just need to be a big girl there's a little whining going on yeah

so uh you know yeah you do need to be a big girl and you need to speak up and say okay we've got plenty of room in this budget we make plenty of money we don't have any debt and we're going to put some joy on the paper here you set the budget you can make it look like whatever you want it to her money yeah it's your money

but you're not in congress you can't just spend not infinite you just can't keep going and going and going and going and going that doesn't work so yeah you do have to have some boundaries but they that but they're your boundaries you get to set them so a i think she's probably not speaking into it doesn't feel like she's got control b probably nerd husband's got the budget too tight yes to where there's no joy in

this thing um and then see yeah you do have to be a big girl and suck it up yeah uh there's part of that in there too no whining allowed but it might be that you just need to take control of this it is a spending plan yeah it's how you're going to spend your money yeah so it's not saying you know dave ramsey doesn't want me to ever have fun again oh shut up

the whole point of living like no one else is later you can live and give like no one else the whole point of paying a price to win is and by the way it's your choice dave ramsey's not coming to your house right and straighten you out right every night when you misbehave i mean this is a matter of are you going to be a grown up

and are you going to control your destiny that's all it is it's not me telling you and i and i don't think that you need to live on beans and rice the rest of your life and i don't hate poor people i have been both um and it's easier when you have a little money so i'm trying to teach you how to have a little money it's that simple

so you know the whining lefties are just beyond belief but they're there and so she's not that her thing is she just isn't speaking into this and she doesn't feel power yeah you know feel like she's gaining power over her life and this thing is being used by her husband to control her yeah yeah and she points out we have no debt we have significant savings considering our income

and my husband is super responsible for the budgets there's all the backstory why can't you i can't stand to budget you need to answer the question why can't you stand the budget and she says i don't like it's confusing it takes time that's bull it's absolutely bull yeah she's not represented in the budget you're not represented you don't have any say you don't feel like you have any say maybe he's not being hardcore

but you're just anticipating that he is right maybe that's the way you were raised i don't know what's going on here but but there's there's something about you need a voice in this you need to set it you've got some room you need to put some fun some joy on the paper enjoy

your money some of it but then yes you need to have guardrails we all you never make enough money to not have guardrails yeah i mean i make a lot of money and i have guardrails yeah you know i have boundaries you have a plan they're different boundaries than when i was broke yeah but there's still boundaries there's still guardrails you know you got different different situations

so all right open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five thank you for joining us america we're glad you're here christy wright is our co-host if you've been paying attention the real estate market this year you've noticed that competition out there is really high it's a cray-cray real estate market in part because inventory has been hitting all-time lows it is truly a seller's world now

when inventory is low it simply means there's more buyers buying than sellers selling which turns the pressure up the price is up the bidding wars start this is not amateur hour you don't want to be playing out there without a pro in your corner you're going to get hammered to win in this market you need a pro by your side if you're buying or selling a monkey can sell a house

but not necessarily for the right price and lots of monkeys wouldn't got their real estate licenses this year a bunch of them they've sold two houses in their entire life and you're going to put your largest asset up for sale with them dumb idea now you need a pro in

your corner and you can instantly connect with one of our endorsed local providers high octane high protein real estate agents ramsey solutions dot com agent find a ramsey trusted agent near you ramsey solutions dot com slash agent open phones triple eight eight two five five two two five you jump in and we will talk linda is here in boise

idaho hi linda how are you

hi dave and christy thank you for taking my call sure um this call is probably

more for christy my son played in the minor leagues for the cubs

and he's also been a high school

and a college pitching coach

but that that's in the past and he would

like to start his own pitching

consultant business um he works full-time this would be on the side and i would be the manager

so what do you do to get started

i have i have so many follow-up questions linda is this something you want to do i know it's his idea i know he's good at it i know all that but let's talk about you for a second is this something you want to do yes i'm retired it'll give me something to focus on i i'm all in okay what does he uh what's his vision for this business

he works full-time this is a side gig is it just for fun is it to make some extra cash does he want to grow it to be the full-time thing uh probably just for fun when he goes on

the baseball field he sees young children you know third

fourth fifth grade uh having poor fishing mechanics which could affect their future one in high school linda hang on the hang on through the break we're gonna answer your question when you get back so we can dig into this yeah we want to dig into a little bit more and give you a good solid answer we'll be right back with you this is the ramsey show [Music]

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welcome to the ramsey show kristy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today

open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five we're talking with linda in boise idaho her son is wanting to start

a side gig doing pitching coaching he

has been a professional ball player and he's asking his mom linda to run the coaching business i guess while he does the coaching and christie was in the process of helping her with that yeah so linda let's do a quick recap when we left and went to break i was asking what's the vision for this business so is this going to stay aside business does you want to grow it to full time let's kind of pick up there

i think probably for now it would be a side business um he just got his masters in social

work so he'll be working professionally with children on that side so this i would just be

keeping into the baseball okay well i'll tell you what jumps out to me first there's there's a lot you want to uh plan for especially because you would be running something that is your son is actually fulfilling the uh the business side of it of the coaching consulting pitching you know that type of thing here's what i would get really clear on linda really clear what is

he doing and what are you doing let's get real clear on that what what does he want you to do for the business is it the books is it the marketing is it the day-to-day admin work um who's wearing which hats so who's wearing the marketing hat who's wearing the accounting hat that type of thing obviously he would be doing the uh actual coaching but when you say running

the business that includes a lot of things and i'm curious if there's aspects of that he wants to do or expects to do and then what he wants and expects you to do just just get on the same page i would actually write it out i would sit down and get really clear you know what does this look like to you let's define it let's let's write

it out and then also what are um goals vision expectations you know how many hours does he want to dedicate to this um how much money does he want to make through this do those correlate um you know what what market does he want to serve and is that market there in your in your town and your city that type of things i would just get really really clear on what he's doing what you're doing

and then i would baby step into it he sounds like he's got a full plate already of things and this may seem like a great idea that when he gets into it he's overwhelmed so let's just take it uh one step at a time one client at a time one you know and you'll you'll learn a lot when you get into it about what he wants to do more or less of what

you want to do more or less of but i would take it slow start small grow slow and then you

can you can build on it more once you learn a little bit i'll definitely um lisa what do you do for a living she's retired you're retired how old are you retired nurse you're a nurse how old are you 70. okay all right and um is he wanting to do this for you

no okay he loves baseball i know that

but i mean is he wanting you to start is he wanting you in this business to help you are you struggling with money

no okay no we're he's independent we are

independent we've followed your all of your things for years and okay

all right cool i just was making sure that what the motivations were behind all of this and what's going on so this is just simply him wanting to help some kids learn to pitch properly and um he doesn't want to deal with the administrative and business side of it he just wants to do the pitching part and you pick up the rest that makes sense okay cool well

i hope it works out i'm with christy let's baby step into it move slow into it incrementally so that you guys can learn as you go and figure out what your next step let's send her a copy of business boutique that'd be great reading for her anyway as she's kind of having these conversations with him absolutely that's perfect so uh kelly i'll pick up linda and send

you a copy of business boutique elizabeth is with us in canada hi elizabeth how are you hi i am thankful to god for his blessings amen me too what's up

um so my husband's 29 i'm 34 we're expecting our first baby in july we don't have any debt except for our 30-year mortgage we have about 280 000 left on that

we've only owned it for a little over a year we have thirty thousand dollars in our emergency fund and we have about forty three thousand dollars just sitting in our savings that we've saved up and kept there and we're kind of a little bit divided on what to do with that so my husband

looks at the numbers and he wants to put it in investments for retirement and i hate having the house debt and i know that it's not a huge chunk in relation to what we owe on the house but i know that it would help pay down the principal and i just i hate owing on the house i don't like the debt and we don't have any other debt so it's like that's the one thing um so but numbers why is he thinking it won't get us ahead as fast as investing

will when you're looking 30 years down the road so i guess with the question is with that 43 000 chunk should we pay down the principal on our mortgage or invest now or split it somehow or just i

could just say screw it and get a brand new toilet tacoma that would be like

well that's possibility

i mean if you're on board there you go the uh i mean if you have a purchase that you need to make other than a screw it purchase but i mean a legitimate project that you want to make then that might be a play but basically what we teach is what we call the baby steps and it sounds like you're aware of them baby step one is

and two is to be debt-free everything but the house three is an emergency fund you've done that beyond that you have this 43 000 which we would apply to uh beginning your baby steps four five and six simultaneously four is putting

15 percent of your household income into retirement are you doing that um well okay so yes and no so not 15 but

so the coolest thing is actually at my husband's job he makes about 90 000 a year and i'm going to be a stay-at-home mom so i wanted working but i'm not so our let's just say we make about households 90 000. so at the end of each year his um

company gives him 12 of his annual

income above what he made and we use that solely for investing so it's not we haven't he just started there he's only been there for a little over a year so we've only received one and that's just a lump sum bonus

yeah exactly and so i think it's intended for investing and that's what we use it for just goes right so we've only been investing for a very short time because so what i would do is change your system then you do not have a 90 000 income you have 102 000 income okay counting bonuses yeah okay give or

take 101 but somewhere right in there and so i would be putting 15 000 a year

of your money systematically monthly into retirement savings okay and that that's a budgeting change for you that's not that really doesn't address the 43 000 but i would start that immediately i would not do what you're doing because you might not get the bonus one year and you need to you need to be in the habit of steadily investing 15 of your income and the um so that that's

the direction i would go now the um then the next step is do you have children one on the way in july then uh we might use some of that 43 000 to set aside for kids college maybe step five and anything that's left beyond that i would put it on the house and uh and i am also doing math and part of the math i'm doing is data that says that

the typical millionaire that we studied in the largest study of millionaires ever done in north america shows that the typical millionaire has

paid off home and substantial money in retirement and what i just laid out for you will get you there substantial money in retirement fifteen percent fifteen thousand dollars a year going into retirement and uh then beyond

that uh uh you know you're putting the the uh money toward every dollar above that towards getting the home paid off and the typical person listening to the show doing our steps pays off their home in seven to eight years the typical millionaire pays off their home in about 10 years but people following this stuff tend to be a little bit more intentional a little bit more intense

and move in that direction so somewhere in that 7-10 range house is paid for but it won't be if you keep screwing around and putting the 43 000 in investments because quote unquote i did some math um which by the way was wrong

this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five christopher is in dayton ohio hi christopher welcome to the ramsey show

hey dave how you doing better than i deserve what's up so uh i'll try and make a long story short i am uh divorced about three years ago and in those three years i've been to court my wife's ex-wife is taking me to court three times five times excuse me so each time we go to court costs anytime anywhere between ten thousand and thirty thousand dollars uh i was on baby step two just bumped down to baby step one um so we're rebuilding our thousand dollar safety or emergency fund we are 96 thousand dollars in debt i am remarried uh we have a household income of 120 000.

um i mean i don't want to speak illegal i mean is this about kids or what's it about well in in her argument it's always

about the kids but she's um narcissists and depression so she lets that guide her ways even though i keep winning in court she keeps taking me back just finding a different loophole to do it and so we're gearing up for her fifth round now that she's taking me back for the same reasons okay i think you need an attorney that gets on the offensive not just the defensive

because she's abusing the court system it sounds like she is my wife and i have talked about we don't even know if it's legal to start doing like uh harassment um

type of uh legal action towards you but you you need an attorney you need an attorney to investigate that you really do because this is i mean i'm just listening to what you're describing and and you know people who are continually doing that uh leave themselves open to a lot type of liability there and so the abuse of the court system is a real thing attorneys can be sanctioned for that and um certainly individuals can just filing frivolous lawsuits is not allowed

you know and so that's the you know i i keep winning i keep winning and she keeps looking for some angle so anyway that that but anyway you so you've got 96 000

in debt is that what you said yes sir how much of that is attorney's fees um that is current attorney fees is

about twenty five thousand dollars okay and what's the rest of it

the rest of it is from going through the divorce um i took on all the debt that we had at the time and then um we uh

you know it was like a snowball effect in the wrong direction for us we were dropping everything to be able to pay for attorneys so then we accumulate debt because we have you know we could pay a lawyer we could pay for food um i could lose my kids or we could feed the kids kind of thing so we ended up making i wouldn't call them bad choices they were just a noose around our neck and we had accumulated credit card debt um so how much credit card

uh credit card debt is sitting at um i

believe it's 22 000 right now because that's 50 between those two things that are associated with this what's the other 50. and then there was a personal loan to accumulate the uh the debt from when the divorce first took place that's currently sitting at 37 000 and then um

the the rest of it is like kids and braces and stuff like that

kids and braces for fifteen thousand dollars uh no no um if that doesn't equal up to exactly fifteen thousand i'm trying to remember my dave ramsey uh that's our website what all of it is credit card and consolidation loan yeah okay oh and family debt because they helped me pay for lawyers as well okay and you make 120 household income now with your new wife yes sir okay good all right um

and then your question at the end of this is what so right now we're projected to pay off if nothing else happened uh another 17 000 in debt by the end of the year and we should be debt free by mid august of 20 or excuse me mid um

2025 that's our goal and i guess our question uh the wife and i were sitting around talking and that is what could we possibly do to better protect ourselves so that when we do get slapped in the face with another court um hearing we're not scrambling for twenty thousand dollars to to make it happen our our goal we're trying to pick gazelles and and uh knock out this debt as fast as possible but every time we go to court it really kicks us it beats us down yeah

yeah hey i don't know uh it may be that you treat this like it's a chronic situation and say um uh you know if you had a an illness that cost you 20 000 a year that was chronic you would have to put that into your budget and then above that work on getting out of debt right and so i i think you've got a chronic legal problem for now

and you've got to continue so i put a couple grand a month in the budget set over in a separate savings account only only for legal fees potentially if you

and it might be that if it happens again we're going to use those legal fees to be those attorneys fees to be offensive

okay okay so you would say slow down paying off the debt to build up a account to build it well because you're going to because you're you you have a very high probability this is coming at you again yes sir and so you know you've got to get ready for it i mean this is a christmas is coming in december a lawsuit is coming from the ex-wife

these are predictable things it is every time something good happens in my life that seems to happen and i'm not i'm not trying to be a black cloud that's not my point my point is just mathematically forecasting we're just going to predict and if the bad thing doesn't happen you've got the money it didn't go anywhere but you can't go buy a bass boat with it then

you got to use it for debt absolutely so if for some reason she decides to calm down without being slapped into next week with an attorney which may be what has to happen um i mean sometimes you just have to stand up and fight you know forward rather than backward and uh i don't know i mean i don't know the particulars are your situation i'm not an attorney uh

but you know i there there is a benefit to going

after offensively some of these people that misbehave using the court systems well this is not working so you're five times in th this is not working so we can't you know i mean like i would try something else after this fifth round or whatever it is you know i i never suggest i mean very very seldomly suggest someone pick a fight right but sometimes you have to finish one yeah uh in order to

you know in order for it to be over yeah it's not going to be over until you finish it yeah i mean you've got to punch into punch and punch and punch until it's over yeah and you just stand there and and just you know and the problem being in a fight is it it doesn't just uh hurt the person that you're hitting it hurts you yeah

when you're hitting you're you know if you're physically we're in a fight your hands will get damaged you know uh you know boxers come out you know they're damaged on but you know there's no no one gets out of these things unscathed it's not like there's one guy does all the hitting and one guy doesn't right you know everybody gets hit but the thing is if you're going to go through all that at least stick in

it long enough to win yeah where you don't have to fear this every single year and just absolutely defeat the evil foe you know that's what you and you have to take on that persona of doing that and it's very difficult yeah so it's emotional because you can hear the emotional drain on him oh my gosh like it's just never and he's talking about he's going along with his life

i thought you were going to be the ex-wife yeah but you're never going away you know just go away i've

had people in my life like that just go away just go go live your life over there somewhere just go away you know but they can't seem to do it so they they don't get it no it's not just a financial drain it's just that emotional drain time the headache the strain on your marriage your kids it's it it's uh you know and you you go from uh

you know being angry to sad to back and forth and i'm just i'm so sorry yeah sorry you've been been through that yeah and and and it's you know it's the problem is it's stealing both the emotion the spirit and the money from your future with your current wife right that's the problem you're taking your eyes off of good things that could be done instead you have to deal with

this crap yeah and this fight yeah and uh hey

been there myself know how it is not in a divorce situation but in other situations and you've just got to you just have to uh the bad actors they have to be punished and you know you don't have any way around it uh you know i i don't set out to be sheriff andy but um but we'll finish it you know if you're gonna pick a fight

and that's that's the re that's where i'm coming from because i've been in those situations and sadly in legal battles where you have to become the aggressor rather than even though you didn't start the fight right in order to stop it that's how it works all right open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host

james childs is our producer kelly daniels our associate producer and phone screener i am dave ramsey and we'll be back [Music]

have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of ramsey advice in their life let them know about the ramsay call of the day podcast it's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes check out the ramsey call of the day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts

this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host this hour this

day open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five you can hear her on the christy wright show where faith meets personal development so you can have a bigger faith and a better life you get the encouragement you want with the tough love truth you need to connect with god take control of your life and enjoy your life new episodes every tuesday on youtube and anywhere you listen to podcasts the christy wright show open phones triple

eight eight two five five two two five jeff's in daytona beach hi jeff how are you i'm doing well sir how are you doing real happy to be on the phone with you you too sir how can we help so i have a

question my wife and i are looking to install a pool in our backyard and i uh i know your your your thoughts on on pools and and getting refinancing to use the money for that but just a little bit about my wife and i have lived very financially responsible we have no debt cars are paid off we have college funds for the kids we maxed out both roth iras we're also both pension

employees with the city here so we have a pension to look forward to and we have deferred comp um we bought our we currently owe 134 on

our home our interest rate is 4.125

so we are wanting to install a pool in our backyard we have two young kids we are in what we consider our forever home and we are wanting to refinance the house and pull sixty thousand dollars out of the house to install the pool you

wanna put a sixty thousand dollar house in a hundred sixty thousand dollar pool and a hundred thirty thousand dollar house so no we only owe 130 oh i'm sorry

what's the house what's the house worth one third i'm sorry 330.

and the new rate we yep the new rate we could get would be 2.375 i said that's an expensive pool

yeah oh yeah sixty thousand dollars is an expensive pool that's uh that's that's my wife's feeling and that's uh that's uh it is yeah it's her doing you're the one calling jeff i i know it it it would be a very nice pool

and i know it's expensive but like i said we are not planning on on going anywhere at least until the kids are through high school so that's about another 13 years you know for the youngest one

okay um well what you're very clearly describing over and over and over again and you've said it six different ways is that you know this is an irresponsible bad idea

yeah but you're trying you're but you're trying to make me think it's okay so that so that you're gonna think it's okay so that they will say you're on to me i mean it's just it's um okay let's walk through it so number one i'm not against fun number two you have done a great job with your finances congratulations number three you have a clue where you are

you know exactly what's going on you're not a wandering generality you're not out of control you're you're very systematized you've been very uh beautifully done you've told me your numbers you're not you're not guessing you know exactly where you are so you have a lot of positive things going on and and then you have this uh your stomach is in your throat because you're getting ready to pay too much for a pool for a 330 000 house

it doesn't make sense to put that nice a pool on a house that expense meaning you would never recoup it ever you're b you're over building the neighborhood you have to be by definition even if there's pools all up and down your street they're not sixty thousand dollar pools and three hundred thousand dollar houses people don't do that that is true okay so number one you know you're spending too much number two you're borrowing money to buy a fun toy yes

and you know that that's not unwise and um you called the guy that was would tell you both of those things right i mean what what do you want

how can i help you could i could i run something by you you think it's going to change my mind i don't know

i try that technique jeff with my husband all the time well let me just give you one more all right let's try let's let's try it let's try it you're a good sport jeff let's try it for fun here so my wife and i we purchased the home we've been in the home about six years we purchased it for a hundred and sixty thousand dollars it has appraised quite a bit i i understand so the new if we were to refinance

um at a lower rate of 2.37 we would have

that the the mathematic equation you give out we would with the closing cost which is about 9 000 we would cover that in about three years we're going to be in the home for at least i'd say at least 10 to 15 years

and with the refinance we're only refinancing at 210 uh 210 thousand

dollars which is still substantially less than what all the homes really think it's gonna make you bankrupt okay yeah i don't think you're gonna go out of business because of this i don't think you're going to completely you know get a divorce because of financial stress that's not that's not what i'm saying i'm saying a you're borrowing money to buy a toy true even though you figured out some bass awkward sophisticated way to make

it sound okay but you're still borrowing money to buy a toy and you're over building your neighborhood both okay so if you want to do if you

want to do one if you want to do one of those over build the neighborhood okay but don't but don't borrow the money to do it gotcha so i and i so i i if i woke up in your shoes i would do one of two things uh and is do you have any money to put towards this project we would we have twenty thousand dollars that we would put uh towards but the way pools are built ever i mean it's such a hot commodity here in the state of florida right now that they're putting an 80 000 pool in oh jeff you're in more trouble now oh it's a 60 000 pool oh okay so you're borrowing you're willing to borrow 40.

yes sir i'm sorry okay no i'm misunderstood i'm misunderstood okay so you got 20.

so if you and what's your household income about 110 000 phenomenal okay

i would project that based on the fact that you two actually have done so good until we got to this conversation with your finances that the two of you could add another 20 000 to this 20 000 very quickly and pay

cash for a forty thousand dollar pool if dave and sharon ramsey were in your shoes that's exactly what we would do yes sir i'm gonna tell my wife we're gonna have to eliminate sushi sunday and that's that big that well no more it's up to you it's not a lemonade it's trade

yeah we're trading it for a pool

you eat a lot of sushi apparently but i was waiting for that but but your trade you know you're going to eliminate some lifestyle to get the pool that's what dave and sharon ramsey would do we've but we've got some nice toys in our life and i remember the first time we bought a toy we bought a little bitty dinky butt house on the lake for a hundred thousand dollars and we thought it was the oh god we just bought a second house

we're like rich people or something we have two houses it was a hundred thousand hundred three thousand dollars and uh but we pay cash for it and we've never regretted it we've never regretted owning a lake house because we pay cash for our toys and they don't come back to bite you in the butt later this is the ramsey show [Music]

we were drawn to christian healthcare ministries because we both had young families and we wanted to have more children and we had also just started a real estate company and needed to find health care coverage that would meet our needs we were attracted to chm because of its low monthly costs and the ability to negotiate medical costs down established in 1981 and accredited by the better business bureau chm is here to meet the needs of your growing family or small business check us out at chministries.org we absolutely believe in it

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i'm proud of my state of tennessee

and uh one of the greatest things about our state has been that we have had a great run of incredible governors

at least the last two anyway and

governor bill haslam was a governor here for two terms uh currently governor bill lee is our governor in tennessee and uh bill and i became friends during that time christie's wife as well and he was an incredible incredible governor and uh incredible not politician but statesman is a better word and has written a brand new book i i went to donald miller's house the other night with a bunch of folks in our area here that were friends of both of ours bills in mind

and uh got to hear a little bit of the reading from it and the background on it it's called faithful presence the promise and the peril of faith in the public square bill and i are both christians and it is messy when you once you say you're a christian someone disagrees with you immediately you're a fake christian immediately uh someone's got something to say about that but uh

you know how you can uh act out your faith in the public square uh bill comes from the pilot oil family his daddy is a started pilot oil and his brother owns the cleveland browns and uh if i got that right you got it right okay and uh make sure i say the right thing jimmy big jim will get me jimmy for sure you get a quick call

but yeah i'll get i'll get uh big jim would get on me i don't want big jim after that but uh big university of tennessee fans as well and alumni like we are and uh uh generosity

in that direction so a little bit of background there so bill you and i when you uh were running for governor the first time uh with your background coming from a family of means we're sitting you and chrissy and i and sharon were sitting on our back deck remember kind of getting to know each other right right a little bit and i asked you a question i said why

would you take this job because it doesn't pay that much in comparison to other things you could have done and have done in your life and you come from a family of means you didn't it's not something you needed financially and you didn't need the power you didn't need any of that why would you why would you want that job it's kind of what i said you remember that

i do i remember the conversation well and it was an honest question because i just couldn't envision it yeah well first of all you talked about the success of tennessee and ramsey and ramsey solutions is part of that story i i got to stand here where we are now when it was a field um and to see what you have done to see what you've done with

the place as we say around tennessee is impressive so first of all let me just tip it was with your help as well no cool story was a big help to us so why do i run you know we all find different ways to serve right you've been able to change thousands and hundreds thousands millions of people's lives by giving them some insight into financial um a better financial way to carry out their lives government serves a lot of different people

and it makes a difference who governs matters and um for me it just felt like a huge opportunity to serve and i know it sounds kind of corny but it felt like for me the way to to to change more lives uh for the better than than anything else i could do well and i also remember you saying you felt like god told you to i did

it well and it was a call a spiritual call is chrissy would would always remind me during the campaign campaigns aren't really much fun and she'd say okay you you are called to run the election will decide if you're called to serve [Laughter] so there was always a whole lot of well we'll see yes i will thanks for watching but she was right and so we really did feel that way

and so if you do feel that way then then you do it differently you don't do it uh with you know your own your own ends in mind bill haslam former governor of the state of tennessee the book is faithful presence the promise and the peril of faith in the public square so this your first book why write a book about this subject and why now you know uh

it is my first book it might might be my only you know some people like you have enough to cover a lot of books this might you know i only have enough for one problem but here's why you know it's no secret the country's at each other's throats uh and everybody talks about the polarization and we're not just that but we're mad um and we're not just mad

but we think the other side has bad motives the question is what are we going to do about it well jesus was pretty clear in in scripture when something was wrong he always started with us the religious types uh and he said hey if the meat's gone bad it's not the uh it's not the meat's fault it's the salt's fault the salt's not doing its job and

so this is a call to all of us who say that we want to follow jesus and then others who don't but want to know the role of faith in the public square to say what role could we have in being light in the darkness and being sought to meet and changing the tone of the conversation politics uh i you know anytime you get up in the spotlight like

i have been for many years you get the haters and you get the and you get the uh people who believe you can do anything which both are wrong right and um but the uh uh you

know you ought to run for office and i immediately just about no no i have a physical reaction it it sounds so exhausting would be balanced we know that that that's true and there would be a lot of angry people but yeah but uh it's messy it's exhausting it's sometimes ineffective why should we even care about politics well you know it says in scripture that god causes

the the sun to fall on the just and the unjust the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous so he cares about the common good and this is a way that that government impacts what we do and how life works and again think about your principles so tennessee's actually lived that way we've lived as a fiscally responsible state because of that we can keep taxes low we can attract businesses to come here

it matters the decisions you make and that affects again millions of people uh because of that so um one of the reasons i wrote the book is i don't want people to say oh a pox on both your houses i'm tired of all the argument uh i'm i'm not going to pay any attention because that's the wrong response to the current situation the the only way to fix

it is engage i stand back and throw grenades doesn't do it it's never it's never worked and by the way it's never changed anybody's mind either yeah that's true that's true so bill lee's been in office two years a little bit more about two and a half years so you know so you've been so the last 10 plus years right we've been having these conversations um it feels like to me that it's gotten a lot nastier

during that 10 years nationally yeah i don't think it just feels like it has and all the data would show you that that it's we've gone from disagreeing to think the other side has bad motives and even that being contemptuous of the other side yeah how do we get in this mess i think there's several things number one we've always been a little i mean we've always been

you know it's always been partisan you know are the founders got literally gotten duels with each other uh so so we shouldn't kid ourselves and say oh this is new but i think secondly the world's different and so with social media you can hide behind the anonymity of the internet as you know and people can say whatever they want about you keyboard keyboard courage the keyboard i love that i'm stealing that uh people can have keyboard courage people can uh people can in politics can say well

i can just go be a social media star i don't really have to solve problems so it's like i'm going to play a senator on tv i'm not going to really be one in terms of solving problems and i think the fact that folks can choose their own news and how they get it we we just tend to dig further deeper into our own beliefs and

not take any time at all to listen to is there a better way to do this yeah the ability to sit down and calmly listen to the other side is a lost art it really is and somehow we think that if we yell at the other side we're going to change their mind and that's changed nobody's mind everything doesn't you know yeah i'm going to get mad

and call you names and on twitter and that's going to make you feel better yeah and i'm going to vote your way now yeah exactly exactly faithful presence is the book the promise and the peril of faith in the public square former governor of the state of tennessee two terms bill haslam what strengths and gifts if people of faith come to the public square should they be bringing well

you think about one of those that we should bring is people always deciding am i going to be a person of truth or a person of love and we're supposed to be both we're supposed to understand that it's you know speak the truth with love we're supposed to people think well you either have to choose mercy or choose justice and we understand it's both i mean we actually have a god that lived out mercy

and justice at the same time uh and so we have a picture of that the other advantage we have is we know we're broken imperfect people that's part of the definition of being uh being a follower of jesus well if we are that then by definition we know we have the capacity to be wrong too that's not a bad place to start the discussion yeah and that makes

you a listener i hope so love your spirit love your humility appreciate your friendship you too you and sharon have become great friends thanks governor bill haslam former governor of the state of tennessee check this book out guys it's life-changing and it's really needed in the marketplace right now faithful presence the promise and the peril of faith in the public square this is the ramsay show [Music]

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christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five in las vegas andrew and shanae are with

us it says on my screen you guys are debt free congratulations thank you how much did you pay off

seventy eight thousand five hundred and sixty four dollars good for you awesome and how long did this take you 364 days okay there we go the one year minus a day mark okay and your range of income during that time um our range of income started about ninety seven thousand four hundred and ten and then we finished at um one hundred and forty eight thousand nine or eight hundred

and forty wow what do you guys do for a living i'm a police officer and i'm the office manager of a dental office how did you get your income up so far in one year um i worked over 901 hours of overtime

wow wow great place to go when you're broke to work huh way to go andrew man i bet you're happy this is over yeah the wife's pretty happy too she has help with kids now yeah absolutely she was a single mom for a year so uh that's what that's what my wife said yeah so uh what kind of debt was your 79 000

uh it ranged from we had a personal loan for forty two thousand dollars we had credit cards we had cars

and we had a thirty four hundred dollar vacuum cleaner of course yeah what well it does everything

or not but yeah so what was the 42 000

personal loan what was that um so we have two children and i was a stay-at-home mom for about almost three years and during that time we thought it was going to be a good idea to consolidate um a car

payment and credit cards into a consolidation loan and we were kind of you know at that time we didn't know a whole lot about paying off debt and stuff and we thought at that time that was going to be our best option and then when my daughter was born um she had a lot of medical problems and so we got behind on a payment and it kind of just downhill from

there yeah i got you okay yeah that thing you're trying to borrow your way out of debt lots of folks have tried that one you're not the only one way to go i'm so proud of you guys what started this uh this debt snowball this lit your fuse because you guys went nuts i mean you were going after it 901 hours of overtime what started all this a year ago um

so i had gone to a training with a co-worker and during the training finances had got brought up and he was saying that he was getting ready to pay cash for a million dollar home

and i looked at him and i said how is that possible like me and you have the same job we're the same age like how how are you doing this and he grew up uh in a ramsey household and so he started telling me about it and i spent a couple more days away from the family at the training just looking this stuff up came home told

the wife about it and we were just right then and there we started and we had kind of talked about actually the options of going bankrupt after that consolidation loan like went to collections and stuff because we were having all those medical problems with my daughter um and so when he came home and was talking about that it was like well we either do this or we file bankrupt

because we're not really sure what to do and we were so young that bankruptcy didn't obviously sound too enticing so this was the only other option we had and it sounded like the best thing and we kind of just went full force yeah you sure did so how did you plug into us

when we were at the training he told me your name so and then my mom had told me about you when i was in high school and something but i you don't listen to your mom when you're a teenager yeah and so once i saw someone my own age living that way is when we started i started listening to the podcast oh the podcast okay

every single day i've i have all of the books the audiobooks that i've listened to at least once a month it's just we went crazy on it okay all right cool and so the budgeting and the whole process so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is sticking to a budget yeah inconsistency i mean it gets hard and you know you especially

when you have people um you know that you're friends with or family that are kind of like oh well you know and they live in like the debt lifestyle and they're okay with credit cards and they're okay well i want the points you know i want this and so you know you have those people that kind of tell you what you're doing is silly and stuff and um

so my my opinion

is making sure that you're not listening to that because there's a lot of people that will try and tell you um you know their other ways are better and so just consistency and really knowing what your goals are and keeping keeping your goals in focus because otherwise people really do try to talk you out of it yeah there's a lot of naysayers and it's just because they don't have hope a lot of times right

and uh but who were your best cheerleaders um oh man that stuff we had i think each other honestly we had some friends outside but me and her one of us would start to feel a little discouraged or something like that and the other one would be like hey knock that off like we got this let's do this and so we just worked together as a team

it would probably be the best thing but we had some friends that stuck by yeah what kept you motivated i know a year is pretty fast for you guys to do this but there had to be some some of those times where you were getting discouraged would you what did you guys tell each other would you keep in mind to be able to stick with it i would say

it was the saying that dave has is live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else so we figured if we took a year away from being able to do all the fun things and just really put our heads to it we would have a lifetime of being able to do the fun thing that's awesome and we have a four

and a six year old and so

i think that was a lot of it too because um i really want to be able to you know send them to school and not have if that's what they choose to do and not have to have a lot of financial thing i know i grew up you know with a lot of hard like financial situations and i don't want that for my children um we've taught our we've taught our kids um

this kind of thing and like even my six-year-old he goes out and he gets a job cleaning up dog poop for friends and they pay him and we teach him how to like you know spend save and give so trying to show them a good way of living with a lot of motivation as well just trying to make sure that they can see you know that you have to work hard in order to live freely later that's awesome

so your

friend andrew who paid cash at your age for a million dollar house you know that that's your son right i really hope so yeah he's growing up in a ramsey house that's right he's growing up in a house where mom and dad are living on less than they make mom and dad don't borrow money mom and dad know how to work their butts off and you're teaching him how to work you know i mean it would do a lot of america good if at some point their kid had picked up poop for money

it could change this country it really could yeah 80 bucks a month going house to house yeah that's awesome wow that's awesome wow this kid's an entrepreneur uh no ken no pun intended but yeah

wow you guys this is incredible i'm so so proud of you guys very very well done absolutely incredible uh so here's the deal we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's uh the book about what happens now the live like no one else part now that you've done it and the legacy that we're just talking about with your kids and we've also got a copy of

the total money makeover for you to take and give to someone because now andrew you're going to be that friend that runs into somebody and starts their journey and uh that's how this works so paying it forward so again we're just so proud of you guys very very well done all right it's andrew and

shanae 79 000 paid off in

364 days with 901 hours of overtime

making 97 to 148 they are free count it

down let's hear a debt free scream

three two one winners

amazing you know it's not hard to work that hard when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel that's right and you can see that you're getting there yes i love that visual of how you said that's going to be your sun like oh you forecast into the future the ripple effect of this decision with that next generation and beyond that that's incredible change your family tree baby

you can do it and i'm talking to you yeah you you thought you were just in the car listing the radio now i'm talking to you you need to change your family tree it's in your power to do it now do it

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christie wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five

have you ever made a dumb decision with zeros on the end because you didn't do your research yeah me too sometimes we all make choices dumb choices based on feelings or opinions and if you do something like that when you're buying a house yeah and this real estate market feelings are not your friend facts are your friend because everybody's gone bonkers out there check your fax

find out what you can actually afford research what's really trending in home prices talk to reputable real estate agents in your area this is not amateur

hour where mark warehouses are getting multiple offers do not let a monkey sell your house and a monkey can get a real estate license and they sell two houses and then you've listed your highest most expensive property asset with someone who doesn't know what the flip they're doing get the facts know what you're getting into and get a pro in your corner go to ramseysolutions.com agent you can plug in with one of our elps our endorsed local providers that

we have vetted their high octane high protein the top real estate agents in the nation ramsey solutions dot com slash agent that's how this works open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple eight eight two five five two two five tina is in austin texas hi tina welcome

to the ramsay show thank you for having me and listening i listen to your podcast a lot well thank you and um i just it's kind of like jeff

your earlier caller i feel like i'm pretty frugal i'm really good with my money um but i wanted to make sure i'm on the right track and i feel really stressed when i'm spending my money um when or when i'm using my money for myself when it's a gift or a donation no problem anybody check but then when it comes to me i get really nervous um grocery store

i don't want to binge on the five dollar chocolate or whatever right i just want to make sure i'm on the right path of um savings uh so i'm on baby step number six um paying off my mortgage i feel like i've done a really good job with everything else i skipped number five i don't have any kids um and thanks to the podcast i got really good

so intense during um the pandemic and i paid off my car this is pretty dave ramsey i've heard about you for 10 years but i never really read the book how can i help today how sorry how can i help today so i wanted to make sure that i was on the right path for um um when i paid off the mortgage i have two different homes one's a rental under an llc

and then one's my home home and then we always talk about paying that off and as soon as possible so i wanted to see which one should i pay off first um do i go get so intense and paying those off and or do i just kind of loosen up a little bit generally speaking what we do is if they're similar in payoff balance i'd pay off your home

first but if you have a tiny little rental mortgage and you want to just reach over knock it out and then come back to the home uh that's okay too we're going gonna get both of them eventually agreed yes okay so how much is owed on each

um i owe 61 205 on the rental with five years left

and then 170

with 11 years left and your income is what uh taxable income is 73.

5 000. that's how much you're getting 72 000. taxable income 73. 73. 73 000 okay

all right the w2 is a 97 yeah okay so you know the rental is substantially smaller in balance yes and if you wanted to push it up front you can uh that would be a reason to push it up front i always want to cheat towards the residents because of risk management and all that means is in an absolute horrible worst case scenario if you were going to lose one to foreclosure you'd want to lose

the rental not your home and so getting rid of the the place where you lay your head down at night having no mortgage releases you in the spirit releases your spiritual you know self a lot and then because of you know the rental property and whatever we can lose it or we can sell it and it's no big deal but where you live gives you an extra dose of peace

when it is paid off and so i tend to cheat towards that so that's a reason to put it first but the rental is very small so you can knock it out pretty fast if you get after it right right so either one is okay in this case but that's the way i look at it that's the two things i look at is it and so if

you owed 150 on the rental and 170 on your house i'd say go to your house because of what i was describing earlier but because your rental is so small if you want to go over there first you can do either one you know again you know we're only 230 thousand dollars from being completely free and that's pretty cool she's done a great job yeah it's amazing it's always good

when the question is either option is a good one that's the answer yeah you know you're in a good spot because you've done really well yeah you've done real smart uh and uh when both answers are smart answers right yeah that's a that that's a lot better than both answering your dumb answers yeah i've been there too i've done both uh joey's and how does hattiesburg hi joey how are

you hi dave how are you doing today better than i deserve what's up well i'm 20 years old

i own two businesses one is a startup but the other has been running for about three years um well for the one that's been running i owe 176 thousand dollars on the business 104 of that is owner finance loan um 63 of it is through a bank and then 9k is minor debt well i know the general rule is never to take out of an ira however i'm hoping that you'll give me permission for an exception um i've got a cd for 64 000 and an

inherited ira for 700 i'm sorry 79 000

not bad okay the inherited ira 79 and the cds how much 64 000. okay all right uh the owner finance loan um the one for 104k said if i paid in full they would take 10 off meaning i would save 10 400 on principal another 17 000 in

interest and my idea is to use that cd put that

towards it and take the other 30 000 ira yeah an inherited ira i would do that when did you get the inherited ira

oh um three years ago for my father okay i'm sorry sorry for your loss there um

yeah and where did the cd come from same thing same thing um it was life insurance okay and what kind of business are you running at 20 years old that you won 170 000 in debt for um it's a vending machine business it started out as two hundred and sixty thousand um and i've been able to get it down to there you're making money

um yes um to be fair during corona it was barely paying for itself but nevertheless paying for itself how much do you make a month gross right now gross i mean it varies for month month but on average 8k

it's an idea yeah okay

so you're making like 30 grand a year profit as of right now yes um but i've had that's because a lot of my business is taken away i'm regaining it back um now that coverage is coming to an end

in mississippi

absolutely okay yeah i would have thought it would be back mississippi's open it is but like the schools which is more than half of my business oh okay all right all right that does explain it okay and now you're out for the summer

exactly that's the reason my average is so low yeah okay all right that's helpful because i'm just afraid for you these are these numbers scare the crap out of me and here's number here's the thing yes i would answer your question yes i would do this i would take the cd and enough out of the inherited and pay the loan off i would also try to negotiate down more than a 10 discount

because they probably need the cash offer them 20 off and just see what they say all they can do say no all we'll do is 10 right so just say i'm having to cash out my dad's when he passed away inherited ira and it's making me feel funny i'll do this if you'll do 20 throw a little emotion in there see what you can get them to do

and uh here's the thing i want you to walk away with don't do this again you won't have another one of these shots to clean up this mess next time you get ready to grow a business or buy a business you pay cash for it don't do this again i'm scared for where you were you're

getting a one-way ticket out don't you go back that wasn't unclear was it no you you covered it well this is the ramsey show

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hey guys this is james senior producer for the ramsay show did you know over 18 million people listen to the ramsay show every week and a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country to find a station near you head to the ramsay show dot com

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this is the ramsay show [Music] you can be intentional about your character you can have money and a career you are the hero in your story

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live from the headquarters of ramsey solutions broadcasting from the dollar car rental studios it's the ramsey show

where debt is dumb cash is king and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the bmw as the status symbol of

choice i'm dave ramsey your host christy wright ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today

as we answer your questions about your life and your money open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five that's triple

eight eight two five five two two five kai is with us in

orlando is it k or kai kai kai cool how can we help

so i'm i'll be on baby step two and i'm working an extra job where i'm an independent contractor and i think i can pay off my debt in way before next taxis and certainly by the end of this year should i set aside taxes still or should i should i wait till later to get rid of those taxes ready yeah you're going to want to go ahead

and set those aside go ahead and plan for them do you know you have projections of what you're what you're planning to do this fall uh yes so um so it's just an ex it's an

actual a couple hundred dollars a week but uh it's it's my second it's soon to be third job um and my total uh debt is seven thousand six hundred dollars what do you make uh not counting this job uh that'd be about 32 000 yeah i'm just i'm getting actually getting ready to start the job next week okay oh cool cool well here's the here's the tech you're just out of college yes sir okay cool here's what we're

the proper way to do this is to file quarterly estimates on the profits of your business when you're an independent subcontractor you're technically running a business you have a sole proprietorship okay my guess is you don't have any expenses associated with the business that are deductible do you i guess not other than maybe gas and mileage okay are you what are you driving like uber each or something uh yeah it's a grocery delivery okay all

right yeah you will have some deductions there you'll want to keep track of all that yeah you want to keep track you can either write off uh the mileage by the

irs guideline or you can write off the expenses associated with the car one of the two usually in your case the mileage is going to be a better way okay so you have a deduction so let's say that um your miles amount to 50

a week that you can write off and you make 200 a week your profit would be 150 then you're following me yes sir so what i would tell you to do is this number one um uh you can probably just jump online

and look and see what the irs is allowing per mile and just keep up with your mileage keep a log book of your miles okay and you can do it electronically you can do it in an old-fashioned log book if you want to either one but you need to keep up with it in case they question you someday you need to have the records that questioning you is called an audit okay

so i don't think that'll happen but but you don't want to get burned on this so now so you take the my the allowable rate per mile times the mile you drive and deduct that as an expense

and then once a quarter you're supposed to file a quarterly estimate it's a one-page thing it's very easy to do with the irs and it amounts to all of the money you made at the grocery delivery in this case minus the deduction you're taking for all the miles during that quarter that three month period of time okay the difference is called profit what you brought in minus

the miles is your profit you following me yes times your tax rate and you're going to send them a check for that amount once a quarter on your taxes and so i don't

want you to wait until next year to pay your taxes because you're going to get penalized possibly for not paying them on time because you're supposed to do it once a quarter technically and then when someone does that when someone pays quarterly when they actually comes around a tax time aren't they just kind of reconciling the difference at that point it's just so much simpler on you as well you won't oh if you do it properly you won't owe any taxes on this portion of your income next uh spring when you file your taxes

okay and i don't want that to sneak up on you and hit you in the back of the head later because we said oh don't worry about taxes do that later no yeah that'll get you burnt right there man so just go ahead and stay stay ahead of the game the last snake you want to play with is the irs snake it bites and dave for clarification for anybody listening right now that is in a similar situation don't

you recommend percent if you're not sure what your tax rate is yeah twenty-five percent set aside out of your income yeah so as you're making it through that three-month period of time you can kind of be doing this calculation i'm going to take the mileage off and 25 of the difference i'm going to set aside in a savings account to be ready to pay those quarterly estimates yep

and that's that way you'll have the money when the quarterly estimate comes up because it's you and i have with business boutique and with entre leadership we have talked to thousands of people who got themselves in serious tax trouble they do not pay quarterly taxes they don't even know they need to pay them and they don't really realize the benefit to themselves if they do of just setting aside that as

you get the income as you get the revenue that you set aside that twenty five of your profit needs to be set aside on a separate savings account it's just for taxes don't touch it it's tax money you're withholding on yourself is all you're doing you're just doing what they supposedly do for you with withholding they seldom do it right there you go open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five cole is

with us in utah hi cole welcome to the

ramsey show hey dave and christy uh thanks for taking my call i'm very excited sure what's going on yeah so i'm an interesting situation um i started a i have a stable job as a full-time fireman in vegas i live in utah and i started a side gig to

help me to stay home more to supplement some income and now that income has

grown and the problem i'm having is i work 100 hours a week about and i have three babies at home and i want to be home more so i'm trying to figure out if i should step away from my stable job and lose that sense of security and stick with a commission-based job or what that's going to look like how far away from vegas do you live

it takes me about two and a half hours to get to my fire station from my house

i don't understand that you do you do this once a day four days a week no so i work two days on and four days off so i do a 48 hour yeah schedule so i drive down once or twice a week and then i come back and then on your off days you have a side gig that's kicking butt yeah i'm a real estate agent so i started doing that and it took my income from just fire about 70 and now i'm doing over 300.

okay uh now quit now driving

yesterday a long time ago

why do you have to think about it what is the question it's i know the market is hot now and it's doing well as an agent but if it's gonna slow down and my income could drop

back down low and the security

well if i step away from the fire job on the fire department i lose that that stability and that stable income yeah you lose five hour commutes and

you're we see your three small children dude you should have quit like 30 years ago wow like by the end of the week you're not a fireman anymore that's it

you have no life go get you a life

wow you are not afraid of hard work though this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five summer's almost here but that does not mean you can take a vacation from your money goals motivation to stay intense can go away i understand but especially when you want that beach trip or this kind of stuff the old vacation uh waves in front of you and you go stop your whining listen

if you live like no one else later you can live and give like no one else if you will vacate like no one else meaning not at all later you can vacate like no one else meaning anywhere you want to go baby and

there's some cool places in this world you ought to be able to you ought to be rich enough to go see but you're not going to get there if you keep spending money like you're in congress so it's time to straighten up a ramsay plus membership gives you our best digital money course

financial peace university all of our digital money courses are there smart money smart kids know yourself know your money they're all in there legacy journey all the tools like the every dollar premium the world's best budgeting app all of this helps you keep moving forward it's about getting small wins that lead to big results your goals are worth working for all year long stay motivated with a free trial of ramsey plus text trial 233 789 that's trial two three three seven eight nine thanks for joining us america we are glad you are here

christy it's worth going back to our firemen for a minute yeah okay seventy thousand dollars a year two and a half hours each way commute

but he made three hundred thousand in real estate she had a 370 000 income three little kids at home he's working 100 hours a week in in our minds it was and in most of our listen most of you listening you were going why this guy quit already why in the world is he still doing this fire thing and what that says is this guy is tremendously driven by a need for security

and he falsely believes that the fire fireman's job is more secure than the real estate jobs yeah and that's a falsehood which is interesting too because i've noticed a pattern where we've had some similar calls not the same question where it's well when is it okay to do this and it's like it was okay ten years ago but it's that we we hold on there's this fear that keeps us trapped in some idea that that

we we're not there we don't have enough the what if i lose my job i've heard you ask people well how stable is your job they're like oh i don't know something could happen but it's a very stable job they've been there for 20 years and the industry's secure and and so it's just interesting how fear i feel like is this shadow that haunts us

and because we never really pin it down and define us it can always torment it's like what if what if what if but the scenarios are not even remotely probable they're not realistic well and when it comes to your income it can be the tapes that were played in your house when you were growing up in the sense of always get a good job and the definition of a good job is that

it that it's always going to pay yeah it's a steady work it's steady it's in its income you can count on and versus being self-employed or straight commission yeah which is an unstable job right but it's not necessarily an unstable income what's interesting though is i'm curious have you seen a correlation between uh preference in terms of like salary commission you know however it's structured by personality style

because like no i think i think it's just a uh it would be back to rachel's book know yourself know your money it's abundance versus scarcity or it's um you know we all have one of those uh but the the scarcity mentality i would just go with that as an example and that could be any personality style but it usually would go back to your uh the way

you were brought up the household you grew up in and um [Music] and you will either react way to the opposite of the way you grew up or you'll try to do the same thing again one of the two and but very seldom just in the middle yeah until you look up and you go wait a minute the way i was brought up is what's influencing this not

the facts feelings are not facts yeah and and so uh here's an example okay if you've made three hundred thousand dollars in a white hot real estate market if the real estate market cools off you've done enough transactions you know how to do a transaction you ought to you ought to it's logical

the facts would indicate that the chances of you making uh let you know one-third of what you used to make or greater

is very high based on your track record

right and how long you've been doing this you've been doing it longer you have word of mouth you have referrals there's there's not enough transactions that if you if you didn't make 300 but the market cooled off and you only made 100 but you used to make 70 as a fireman you still came out ahead so that it ought to give you all kinds of emotional breathing room to be able to quit the quote-unquote steady job but

here's the problem people think that where they work is how what makes it steady and it's not your talent and ability to land a job doing

something is what makes is the only thing that gives you stability and so if you're a high quality salesperson you can always land a job in doing sales always in any marketplace at any time

now you may have to change you might you might be doing medical devices and later you might be doing cars or later you'd be doing cars and later you're doing medical devices or pharmaceuticals i don't care but a sales person that knows how to sell and has worked on straight commission and knows how to has a high relational iq regardless of the personality type has a proven track record you're only as secure as your own ability

the fact that the that it's the government that pays the firemen makes you secure no what makes you secure is you have the ability to leave the cave kill something and drag it home and it's proven that's where your security comes from and and so but and you have to use those as dr john dolone would say we use facts are our friends and the way we overcome trauma

is uh we calm down and we deal with facts not the emotions of the situation and i think that releases people to go live their dreams then yeah it's interesting too because it's when you break it down like that it helps people see oh i had some beliefs about stable versus unstable job that had nothing to do with what the company is or where the money comes from we've seen something similar

when it comes to non-profit or for-profit status and building a business so i work with a lot of business owners and they say well i want to i want to structure my business as nonprofit because i want it to somehow be holy and do work that matters because as if the irs designation is somehow the holiness factor and so we'll have i will attach ideas to statuses especially in relation to government that are not actually accurate at all

but i have a friend that owns a small business that has grown year over year over year over year for 20 years he's not made his personal income out of that business that he paid taxes on for the last 20 years has not been under a million dollars a year that's incredible yeah that's incredible yeah

but and so is his income stable yes for 20 years yes yeah you know but

it's all but but cove had affected it yeah covett could have dr you know could have dried up his market could have done but is his income stable yes yeah it's an income statement it's got 20 years right of being able to do this it wasn't one time right it wasn't just not this young man here was he it was one time and it isn't just during why dot covid

and so forth but he's out there still getting stuff done he's there's a lot of real estate agents who haven't even been able to figure out how to sell a house in this mess which means you really do need to get out of the business but um i mean because god almighty anything can sell a house right now but the uh but but you know maybe you won't make 300

but you've got 300 000 of income that many transactions under your belt that says you know how to look at people and get them to the closing table yeah on the par on the purchase of their next home their dream yeah you know i participate with them in that in a way that causes them to do the transaction yeah and and so that is stable yeah and to your point where you're paid or who's paying

you doesn't make it stable right and to your point your second year if the market cools off and you take a small dip your dip is still way ahead of where you were in the firemen job so you have to look at it in relation to what you're comparing it to as if somehow 70 000 is stable when you're talking about even a dip would still be way above that which makes his call for most people listening a no-brainer yeah

but for something inside of him that was holding on to this false notion of where stability comes from stability comes from your ability

say it again stability comes from

your ability it doesn't come from anywhere else and god's blessings but it doesn't come from anywhere else but those two things this is the ramsay show

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christy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones a triple eight eight two five five two two five on the la on the debt-free stage in the lobby of ramsey solutions chris and amanda are with us hey guys how are you doing very well thank you welcome welcome good to have you where do you guys live ozarks awesome beautiful area huh yeah it is cool and all the way down here to do a debt-free scream how much did you pay off 278 767

wow how long did this take four years

one month and 19 days i love it and your range of income during that time about 130 135 140 somewhere in there what do you guys do for a living um we're in higher education both of us what are your professors uh-huh yeah cool good for you yeah thank you i teach chemistry for a junior college um i'm a chair over a masters of science and nursing program and i teach in that program as well wonderful awesome very cool so uh i was gonna say four years and 279

000 might be a mortgage but that might be student loans a lot of it we had to pay for a lot of brains between the two of us we have been purchasing brains yes we have five degrees between the two of us it's wow too much we over degreed ourselves

it was wow bad decisions all around okay

your professors we are using it yeah and you know what honestly we're lifelong learners we love to learn you know so it was really good we love to teach we love our students both of us we're really passionate about it we just um you know regrets about getting there the way that we got there but um that's okay because we were able to get out of it and now we're kind of on the other hand it definitely is yeah so how four years ago the time that you finished the last degree then

uh yeah we started the program about um

a half a year before i completely finished my phd okay okay so you're doing dissertation and stuff because you're doing it i was yeah wow yeah what's your phd in uh educational technology i'm online teaching is sort of my specialty so wow you got a little bit of a future wow you talk about stepping into them yeah and a dissertat and a dissertation in the middle of a pandemic huh well yeah just leading up to

it no no no no you started four years ago i'm sorry i'm sorry i am in healthcare so you know yeah wow yeah amazing yeah very cool

very cool good for you guys so uh how

long have so you were you were working on your phd how long y'all been married almost 22 years now oh okay yeah so

somewhere along the line of this journey of gathering degrees and education and lifelong learning and all of this five years ago or so something happened into the 22 marriage what happened so 2017 uh well late 2016 we just got to the point or at least i felt like you know all the money that was going out you know versus all what's coming in it just ended up being nothing left over

it just felt like a financial abyss at the end of it so that's how i felt but what about you yeah i think that um we are both people of integrity and we knew that we were signing for something that we were eventually going to have to pay and i think as i got closer and closer to the end of my educational journey i was watching it come my

friends some of them were going bankrupt some of them were starting to get their bills in the mail because you know they don't start billing you for those student loans until you're out and so i was seeing the size of their bills and their bills were like mortgage payments or more and i mean it was giving me a visceral reaction yeah and i think we just both of us just went oh

you know the the piper's coming like we're gonna have to figure out a plan to get this taken care of and we're both people of logic

and it was so nice to have this to sort of latch onto to say okay here's a plan here's a proven method that we can use to to sort of work our way through step by step

connected to us um i watch a lot of youtube videos and i just was following somebody who used the ramsay plan cool and um we got the book and we both read it and we decided we were going to get on board and it was very let's say i think it was intimidating to go up against that large number after we actually let the monster out of

the closet because it really felt that way but and i think um you know after we started budgeting and actually doing it and following it then we start gaining confidence um and you know since it was such a four-year long journey you know probably in the middle of it felt you know felt stagnant but we were making progress so we kept going you know but the last year went a lot faster of course with covet everybody was at home

so there was no way you're going to spend money anyway so you know it was we leveraged the advantage of you know we were paying off all the student loans at the end because they were the big biggest part yeah and

so you know we just kept going it's gone so we don't have to worry about it so i'm i'm interested with um the amount of education and you said

we're people of logic um when you uh

because so much of what we do we approach this through almost emotion yeah or behavior modification anyway but when you when you lay down like the baby steps in front of you or the debt snowball in front of you it was just instantaneous you just saw it said okay let's do it i mean i i think that i watched other people sort of on youtube who had done

it and and were successful and i said well it worked for them we can make this work for us too but we've always sort of plowed face-first into life and just done things with a lot of confidence that we we are a team and we're going to be able to conquer this thing so i think this was no different i think we just sort of came into

it very confidently like it may take us and my first calculation we did the excel spreadsheet at the very beginning was that it was going to be seven years and you know we got it done in four a little a little over four we just picked up all the overtime and overload that we could pick up but what do you attribute the difference the difference between four

and seven well i think it just working together at the same goal versus just kind of doing whatever the individual wanted to yeah you were able to sacrifice deeper than you thought when you did this yeah we did we definitely did it's on the shirt i mean we're a team and it's so different working together

it's one of those things like my students there's nothing a student hates worse than a group project really but it's such a valuable skill to be able to work with another person and to enhance each other's strengths and also work against each other's weaknesses but also to work towards a common goal you almost it's it's more than one plus one is two it's you one plus one is three you know it's more than that so team cole does have their own little university emblem there it's pretty cool they have uniforms

they probably have a soccer team yeah

we're not sports people

well done you guys i'm so proud of you so okay when people ask now you paid off 279 000 in four years in one month how did you do that what's the secret to getting out of debt i think being a team and sticking to the budget even if you don't have the confidence yet i think you gain that over time and you gotta both show up to

the meeting you can't get to scape out on it you can't get to skip a month yeah and i think working the plan um you know you find that plan that works and then you commit yourself to it you've i mean a million people have said this on the show but you have to submit yourself to the actual plan and not try to do ish um nobody is

the exception nobody's the exception to the role everybody thinks they're the exception but you know the rules are there for a reason and it works so yeah they're they're there because they work now with other reason there's nothing here to punish you it's still it's a bless you yeah so proud of y'all thank you very very well thank you very much who were your biggest cheerleaders outside

the two of you uh well obviously the two of us but we had some family and then i think my daughter was amazing

smart fester who has followed us through this whole thing so now we're actually using him yeah so he helped us out thank you rick and then we um also have an elp with a realtor so we're oh my god yeah it was one of the coolest things it was at the end of all of this we were able to um move into our dream home

we got a copy of the legacy journey for you that's the next chapter in your story legacy is all about the what this is all about and a copy of the total money makeover for you to give away and pay it forward to somebody you guys are impressive very well done rock stars heroes well done chris and amanda from ozark missouri 279

000 paid off at four years in a month making 135 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three three two one

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wow that is so awesome what a great story

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our scripture of the day lamentations 3 22 23 because of the lord's great love

we are not consumed for his compassions never fail they are new every morning great is your faithfulness

henry ford said the only real mistake is the one from which we learn nothing

chrissy wright ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air nathan is with us in minnesota hi nathan welcome to the ramsey show hello thank you for taking my call sure what's up so i'm i'm currently an accountant for a large company i've been there about 14 years my gross income is about 180 000 per year i'm married i have three small children

my wife and i don't have any debt we have about three hundred thousand dollars in uh iras and and um 401ks through my

employer to my wife's employer i have about forty five thousand dollars in savings uh and right now i have the opportunity to buy into a well-established tax practice with one other person i currently have a cpa my my half investment in the business would be about a ninety thousand dollar uh share and the gross proceeds of the of the tax practice is about two hundred thousand annually

so my my cut of that my half would be about a hundred thousand and we would operate it as you know s corpse each uh myself and the other individual and so i'm just trying to assess you know what that kind of pay cut would would mean to my current life situation

where you have 45 000 where are you getting the other 45 to put the 90 into it um actually so i've i've met with the current tax practice owner and the other person who who's looking at buying it and it would be over basically over a two year time frame so not not next tax season but the following so by the time i would be transitioning into this tax practice i would have the 90 000 saved up in cash to just pay good pay for the half of the business okay and uh i assume you

project that you can grow the business then correct okay and um the there's going to be one sub s corp and each of you are going to own 50

that's correct okay all right well i'm sorry no each of us would would have an s corp on our on our own and basically the so whatever tax returns we or whichever clients and tax returns we

fill or we fill out we would uh take those proceeds oh actually okay so you would have to settle you would have a book of business and he would have a book of business but you're basically sharing office space under the umbrella of the larger okay okay all right that works and that makes it easy to manage and um you know we know who owns what then that you actually own those clients

that's correct okay that's good that's a clean way to do it i i would suggest you get uh just as a sidebar uh some legal advice on putting together uh it's not really partnership agreement but it might actually be how these two sub-s's are going to interact share expenses and you always cover all the negative things we call them the ds divorce drug use default disability death what happens in

the event of these things and so you address those things up front but that's a fairly normal process in the type of business that you're going into normally i steer away from partnerships but this is a unique this is like a medical practice in a sense they're a law practice in a sense that it's done differently so i'm fine with it right so you make 180 your wife makes what

uh right now she's at about 35

but she she'll be starting a new job in the fall where she'll be around 60 60

to 65.

okay so you would take an 80 000 pay cut year one but she would have picked up 35 000 of that that's correct okay and and her concern is around you know right now we have very cheap health care through my employer that covers our whole family and she she would work for a school and her her health care package to through her employer is is not nearly as good as mine so it's really just the the uncertainty around yeah it's not that's not that's whoop-dee-doop-dee that's not a big deal okay yeah you just need to run your numbers and create a budget based on this new income i think when you can see it on paper and see how you can live on this new income including whatever health care increase in health care costs then you're going oh yeah we can do it it just feels scary because you can't see it you haven't put it on paper yet but you may have 220 now you'll be at 160 then or 165 then and uh on your way back to 220.

to god you can make it on 160 you don't have any debt right it's that perceived fear we were just talking about yeah so chrissy's right you need to the two of you need to write it down and actually look at it when you look at actually what the health care difference is it's a penance compared to your income yeah it's not going to be 10 of your income it's not going to be five percent of your income it's going to be two percent of your income that's affected by this it's that perceived security because it's coming from somewhere else and now you're going to be doing it on your own and you just need to see how you can do it and that will help relief from some of that yeah your big hit is going from 180 to 100.

of lowell now i haven't worked been responsible in your current situation for building the book of business where you are or were you just executing widgets yeah i i manage um a large portion of the of one side of the business so all the budgeting and the financial oversight of it so well the acquisition of new clients

um no we're we're a large uh yeah

that's what i'm talking about i thought so okay so that's a skill you don't have

proven that you'll need to get in order to raise your 100 000 income to 200 000. that's a true point yes yeah so we

some you know you're gonna learn about practice management marketing client acquisition development of new new books of business all all of those kinds of things to grow grow grow grow grow uh rather than just simply churning out tax returns uh and so that that can be that could be the challenge of this situation but there's tremendous upside and i love the idea of what you're doing yeah yeah

and you could use those slower seasons to work on those the skills and clinic client acquisition yeah it's uh but this is a really good move i definitely would do this haley is with us in dallas haley i'm short on time go straight to your question yes uh hi i'm uh i lost my job in

september as a director uh making a hundred and thirty thousand uh i'm talking to a recruiter today uh for a senior director position fortune 100 company i'm trying to

negotiate a higher salary but i'm not sure how much i should negotiate for

have you done your research on what the company pays what the position pays any of that kind of digging yeah i've looked online and i'm not really sure what to trust as far as the numbers go but i uh

i indicated i wanted a 148 000.

okay so you've already put a number out there i did she gave me an offer today for 125 000.

which was really low and i told her it was that i really wasn't that i was interested in a higher salary than that i just don't know since i you know lost my job and i haven't really gotten a lot of callbacks um i just didn't want to settle for something low but i don't know what's the right salary well if you're worth 150 in the market

i would wait unless you're unless you're having trouble paying the bills have you got some backlog have you got some money um yeah i'm doing good okay as many days yeah then you know don't take it lower job just out of lack of confidence then but the question is you need to do a detailed comp study and uh you know more than one site on the internet can help

you do that there's plenty of places we do comp studies around here all the time on what a senior director in that region where that company is is being paid and present that back to the headhunter and say look this is what the comp study says it says they're 25 000 low that puts us hour today ramsey showing the books we'll be back with you before you know

it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace christ jesus hey it's kelly associate producer for the ramsay show this episode is over but if you heard about an event product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down don't worry we list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to thermzyshow.com

thanks for listening [Music]

you

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## 225. The Ramsey Show (Replay of the 2022 Annual Giving Show)


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foreign

[Music] ERS of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting

from the PODS moving and storage Studios it's the Ramsay show where debt is dumb

cash is king and the paid off Home Mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice we help

people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five but before you dial the number you need to know that this show today is dedicated

to generosity so we're going to take calls from folks today that have a giving story

a generosity story they were on the receiving end or the giving end of generosity because it is the season tis

the season this is uh well Christmas reminds us how

important generosity is and uh it is

live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else Rachel Cruz number one best-selling author Ramsay personality and my daughter is my co-host today as we take your calls about giving it's our annual generosity show our annual giving show

so we want to hear from you if you've got a great giving story you can jump in the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five Merry Christmas

to you triple eight eight two five five

two two five Kim is going to start off this hour in Kenton Ohio hi Kim tell us

your giving story Merry Christmas um hello Dave hello Rachel um thank you for having me on the show um this is my giving story back in

February my husband died of um covid and I took a portion of the

life insurance money and gave it towards my church's um debt elimination wow

November 26th my sons were there and we

all they saw me write the check fill out the envelope we laid hands and prayed over the check and the boys put it in the offering and my husband he was a

amazing Giver he gave to people all the

time he gave cars and trucks and vans and cash to families in need he gave wood and fuel oil to older people that

needed heat in the winter he just gave it was his it was who he was and um it was such a blessing to be his wife it's such a blessing to give

in his honor and his legacy and our

church um there down to 270

000 left on their mortgage and 12 years

ago it was a 14 million dollar mortgage so wow wow that's so powerful I'm so sorry for your loss um thank you thank you that was the motivator you know for this um so I'm curious for you when you received that life insurance obviously his legacy was one of giving right the way you just described to him is just beautiful um so what made you choose this specific way to give well I felt that you know

every year he gave to the Legacy offering and there's usually a project that the church is doing and this was his life insurance money um I wanted to give a tithe of it to the to

the Legacy offering so that he would continue giving throughout all the years as a legacy um I was going he wanted me to retire he

wrote these letters about me retiring and he had me call Dave I actually wrote

a letter because I didn't think I could get through the um phone call but um Dave gave me a um

a coach a financial coach her name is Lisa Lisa Barber and I worked with her for the last 10 months and throughout that process I came to I didn't want to

retire I want to continue to fulfill

God's will for my life which I'm a teacher and I love teaching children how to read I love being at the school I feel like I'm here for such a time as this so instead of taking

a portion of the re of the life insurance and buying out so that I could retire early instead I decided to continue working

continuing following God's will for my life and take God's will for his life and pay you know give it to the legacy

of my husband for God's kingdom to grow

that's that's how I came Acro came about

that whole process at Lisa helped me make these decisions that I did make them myself you know wow well at least as a precious lady you got a hold of a good one there so that's good stuff dad I love her yes yes I do love her what an eventful thank you for giving me that yeah what an eventful year you've had uh unbelievable highs unbelievable lows and uh it's very poignant very beautiful great story and how old are your sons

24 year old and a 23 year old okay

young men were able to sit there and see their dads uh see their mom write this

check from their dad's life insurance into this and and they get to have that imprint on the rest of their life that thumb print on the rest of their life that was very well played

um thank God that I was able to do that for for all you know for all to see that

yeah amen thank you for sharing Miss Kim God bless you honey and a Merry Christmas to you that's a great story a horrible start uh to the story in a beautiful end or a beautiful Next Step whatever we want to call it I don't know how to say how what you're saying that but uh uh without saying something dumb and awkward but yeah but uh uh it's

amazing that when people are in pain uh that generosity is something that automatically comes to mind yeah that's what I was going to say is that there's like a lot of these stories that we hear and that we'll probably hear today right that there's there's some level of people's stories that that pain is always a part of it right that that is that is a part of life

and I think that that scale is different for everyone depending on their specific story uh but man the depths of that pain in her case I'm like was the depths of her longing in that selflessness right and I think that that's a way to even combat and and and I'm sure helped with the grief like there's a level too of when you're giving and serving it's you are putting

your eyes elsewhere and there's just Beauty in that absolute Beauty

generosity is uh

considerably underrated as a healing agent it completely changes the chemistry of your body it completely changes the set

of your emotions it completely changes your spiritual walk it literally will

change the way you walk when you become generous and the more outrageously generous you become the more free you are as a person you find very few people who are depressed who

are outrageously generous

something to think about because what happens is I mean chemicals are released in your body that you get a high from being generous I mean it's it's unbelievable it is the most fun to

have with money there's so much to it there's more so much more than the math so much more than the individual person that's helped on the other end of the check there's so so many layers to this subject this is the annual giving show on the Ramsay show and we want to hear from you Rachel Cruz is with me the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five call us with your giving story or your receiving story we're celebrating generosity Merry Christmas

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look I love real estate and I want you

to have a house but I don't want a house to have you that's why you need to get

in touch with Churchill Mortgage to make sure you do this right these guys are awesome they'll help you get on a smarter mortgage plan because they're committed to doing what's right for you that means they check in every year with

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that's why we call them Ramsey trusted

you can achieve debt-free home ownership and Churchill is here to help go to their site churchillmortgage.com Ramsey

to start your approval or get more information

[Music]

thank you [Music]

Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today as we talk about giving

today this is our annual giving show we're talking about generosity if you have a story about generosity giving or uh or or receiving that is inspiring and

will help everyone all of us expand our our vision for generosity that's what this is for the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five Wayne is in Lincoln Nebraska hi Wayne welcome to the Ramsay show hey thanks for having me sure my uh so after my first deployment I came came

home in 2009 and was out running around

eating all the food that I'd missed and stopped at a burger joint there was a homeless man walking along the sidewalk so I just offered to have lunch offered for him to come have lunch with me and we ended up talking for several hours but

he had gotten married in 1966 in 67 he

was sent over to Vietnam where he was shot in the head and suffered some

severe brain damage he was unable to take care of himself and true to their vows his wife took care of him until the day that she died and so for three years he was completely homeless had no idea what to do um we had lunch and I ended up working with some of my

unit leadership and some local veterans organizations and this guy ended up getting a full VA disability and

now has a place to stay in a VA Veterans Home in uh in that Dallas area wow

man you took it up you took it up and ran with it way to go dude but it doesn't take a a huge Act of

money to completely change somebody's life and I think sometimes people get overwhelmed with that thought yeah it some it often takes more time than it does money in your case that's for sure time and effort yeah and a lot of caring yeah and that still

is a um an act of generosity in in a

maybe even in a greater way because so many people don't have any time they don't take any time they don't have any margin in their lives to stop and concentrate on someone else for a few minutes they're so busy doing themselves what's his name Wayne Jared Jared okay so for you

as you know you you obviously have completely changed the course of his life which is just absolutely incredible and like you said I love that it's more on that time and effort standpoint not just money right you you walked with him to be able to do that so you changed his life what ways has he

impacted you on you know even a day-to-day basis how how has your life been shifted because of him prior to that event happening I'd kind

of grown up with this belief that homeless people were you know lazy and drug addicts that stereotype that's not always true and after this I started

slowing down and really thinking Well everybody's got a story everybody's really got problems and it's never what it looks like on the

surface that's for sure that's for sure everybody's got a story wow powerful dude powerful well done sir

thank you for calling with your story Merry Christmas to you Wayne hey everyone that is calling in with their uh giving story today and the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five we'll receive the live and give bundle the live and give box it has in it a one-year membership

to Financial Peace University it has in it a Total Money Makeover book it has in it a baby steps millionaires book and that is on sale for 99 which is about 50 60 bucks off of retail right now at ramseysolutions.com but each of these callers will be getting that uh live and give box uh as they call in today and of

course you know if you've got somebody that's just getting started with the stuff you hand them The Total Money Makeover book maybe you're down the road a little ways and you're ready to start really doing your investing and you're going to read the baby steps millionaires book um and maybe you've got someone that needs to go through Financial Peace University or maybe it's you so there's three different things there that apply to different situations different places people are in their money journey and so the live and give

box be sure to check that out and like I

say we're giving everybody the calls into day one Mary is with us Mary's in Atlanta Georgia hi Mary welcome to the Ramsey Show hi hi Dave hi Rachel um

thank you all so much for having me on the show to share um our story a small gift but one that I hope has been having a big positive impact on my niece and nephew love it tell us about it so just a little bit of brief background during covid lockdowns my niece and nephew really started to struggle they were both in middle school at the time their social life evaporated their mental health plummeted and they unfortunately started failing classes in virtual school so at the time my husband

and I had just had our first baby I was actually laid off in 2020 at seven months pregnant so we were living off of just his income and our budget was pretty tight but we decided initially just to host each kid for a special weekend once a month to get them out of the house they can do very fun cheap things in our neighborhood and generally just love on them my assistant sisters excuse me my husband's sister actually joined us in this and so it became this really fun family affair later the three

of us decided to offer a grade Bounty it was pretty generous 20 bucks for each a 10 bucks for each B and I am unbelievably happy to say that my niece has made a healthy return on the time she's invested in studying for about two years now she just started high school this fall and earned a 4.0 her first semester we're really really proud of her so

this is especially important because her parents do not have any money to pay for her college but the state of Georgia will cover all of her tuition through the Hope Scholarship if she has at least a 3.0 GPA at the end of high school so we've talked us about student loan and how she could avoid them and she is really eager to keep those out of her encouraging her to do that my nephew's also gotten himself a part-time job

and his grades started to improve too so I did want to just say thank you to y'all for the teaching and encouragement that you offer around Financial generosity because I struggle with the scarcity mindset sometimes so it's hard to do for me on occasion but I really like the idea of living with an open hand and just practicing generosity like a muscle until you're good at it amen well done good job Mary that's fun

hey be sure to walk those kids uh The Borrowed future documentaries free to watch on YouTube now I know we usually watch a movie when they come over for weekends and I keep telling my husband let's watch Barbara's future there's fun stuff on Disney plus and that'll seal in the uh no uh no debt

to college idea if you watch that you see how horrible the whole student loan system is yeah that'll seal that in for sure hey uh let me ask you something you said scarcity mindset and you're practicing a new muscle um what does it do to the scarcity mindset

my theory is is that it moves you from scarcity towards abundance the more you're generous or maybe it's the other way around maybe you're after you move more towards abundance you're willing to be more generous I don't know which is the cause which is the effect which the chicken the egg what do you think Mary I I really think it's about perspective because you know I'm sitting in my little house in Atlanta that my husband

and I own thinking oh we don't have enough to give away but there are so many people with less than that who

really don't have enough that they could be generous and so it's more about recognizing what's fear and what's fact and then deciding like that you want to

share what you have with people that you really love or just people in your community and I mean once we started doing it really has gotten so much easier and so much more joyful to do I'm

I'm not gonna lie like the first few times we did this we started like giving money away I was like oh God how I want to make the grocery budget this month but really it's been absolutely fine you hadn't missed a meal no well Mary what I love about your story is I'm like you were so um you took the needs very specifically of what they needed in

the time right so like during the lockdown it's like they just needed to get out of the house and that's what you provided and then as they were starting to not do great in school then you're like okay well let's plug in here so it's like whether it's the time the money all of it but but being so intentional Mary which you really are in their lives to see what do

they need and what can you do to maybe help fill that Gap and so that's I think that's amazing so really really well done yeah extremely well done Mary Merry Christmas to you excellent excellent job

it is uh you know that that kind of

intentionality comes from Real Love and that that's tied into real generosity this is the Ramsay show

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Merry Christmas America Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality number one bestselling author my daughter is my co-host today this is our annual giving show where we celebrate generosity where

you have been able to do something for someone or for something and you want to

celebrate that generosity or maybe you're celebrating someone did something for you it's okay either way we all love these stories generous people make us smile generous people make our eyes leak we love generous people and all of us do all humans do I mean you got to be a real weirdo to hate somebody that's generous so that's what we're celebrating this hour and this day on our annual giving show

the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two five and part of this giving show tradition is we always bring in one of our our some of our 1100 members of

Ramsey Solutions our team members and Jess is on the stage Jessica's with us and uh got a great giving story hey Jess

how are you doing how are y'all doing great great merry Christmas Merry Christmas well tell everybody about your story it's fabulous yes so you talk about people giving to you and you being able to give to other people this story is a little bit of both so about four and a half of actually five and a half years now years ago now we actually met

the sweetest most adorable little baby girl and she was a family member to some of uh our church church members there and

she couldn't be with her family and so she needed a home she needed a parents and I'm not a super cautious person but

my husband is ultra cautious and normally he has to think through things especially something very serious it's usually weeks sometimes months yeah it's just like serious parenting is pretty serious way up there on the serious scale yeah yes so but we just kind of made eye contact at church as as the request was being given to find a home for this little girl and she's just adorable

and so we kind of make eye contact and didn't even have to talk about it we came together after that and said are you in like yep I'm I'm in are you in my husband said yeah I'm in and so we at that that's a long conversation very you know 30 seconds long maybe cops

and so after that we decided to get

custody of our Gabby girl and it was about a four and a half year long process to actually solidify the adoption and so a long process I learned a lot of

things about the legal system some things I didn't really care to know about but I feel like I'm kind of a lawyer at this point after all of that yeah I don't know um and so the legal system is enough to uh well we'll just move on yeah yeah yeah and so but one of

the interesting things through that is when we met Gabby we actually were still in debt and we were working our way out of that and one of the opportunities with that was not only getting out of debt but finances was one of my biggest concerns going through this adoption I was thinking we got to get out of debt so that we can adopt this child well finances was

the least of my concerns God provided people were generous to us we had the funds to pay for it the emotional side was the hard part and one of the stories with that was we were actually we didn't have we had custody of Gabby what we hadn't adopted her yet at her one-year birthday party at our house we had actually had all of our

friends all of our family at our house just hanging out and we had some medical debt that was standing out there from my husband had a medical emergency and so we're working through that we were going to get that paid off but we have been served we've been served to collections and so we had hear this knock on the door during this birthday party and all our friends

and family are there and I'm thinking oh is somebody late you know are they arriving late so they knocked on the door and then my husband gets to the door and he says there's a police officer out here and I was like why in the world would there be a police officer and he was trying to be kind to us but I was like what in the world's going on

and he said you you've been served your your debt's going to collections and my pride just dropped I

was like what in the world we're fine we're okay but that's the moment where I was like I've got to get out of debt and I've got to give this child a home and so we were able to do both and not only were we able to be generous to her she's been so generous to us oh she changed everybody she's amazing she's an amazing kid now she's she's a great kid so very

cool so she's been with you how long now um she just turned to six this past weekend and she's been with us since she was almost a year old yeah all right yeah a long time that year oh yes okay so there's been a lot of you know a lot of people that listen have adopted Foster they're kind of in that in that space as well with that parental role

so so talk to the parents out there that maybe have adopted or are fostering and you guys have walked through this over years so what encouragements do you have

for those parents because I know that there's really hard days yes uh through it all like you were talking about even just the emotional side but man how that giving and consistency yes and opening

your home in your heart I'm like oh like yeah that that just that encouragement to parents that may feel discouraged this holiday season absolutely yes hold

your kids close that quality time it can still be yours even if you don't have the title and we were parents before we even had the title if we left it up to the government we may never be parents so that's one of the things that we're like you know what we're going to be parents of this this child and I would encourage all the potential parents out

there love those kids hug those kids give those kids everything that you can because they don't know they're going to be grateful for whatever you can give them and they're going to give back to you tenfold yeah just you've been with us how long almost 10 years I thought so and tell everybody what you do I'm a senior customer success agent on Ramsey trusted all right there

it is senior customer that's

how that works hey I claim that too absolutely absolutely you do a great job

and we're honored to have you as part of this family and uh honored to honor Miss

Gabby and your whole family is cat are you bringing her over for the camera good good yeah absolutely yeah she's

coming up here we go there's Miss Gabby all right that way everybody can meet her on YouTube very cool good stuff hey

Jessica thank you very much very well done proud of you thank you Merry Christmas miss Gabby thank you all right

very good stuff oh the adoption and the

Foster system is a

uh there's such a need and but it's

never an easy process it's always it's always difficult yeah I mean I mean that's it's about widows and orphans and you're just like oh like as of as a mom with three little ones like anytime there's stories like that like would just just talk through or you you know we have families and we know that that Foster and you just hear that's I mean there's a level like the ultimate selflessness I mean you are giving your life away for a

child that didn't choose that story you know it made me cry um I don't know so I think it's just it's just beautiful so I just commend her and her husband so much because it's hard being a parent's hard let alone you

know having that other dynamic in there but then the Redemption and the beauty of you know these kids and just even

with Gabby I'm like you know how her story is completely different because someone chose to do something and a really radical a radical way yeah very cool neat people neat people that's what this is about open phones if you want to talk giving this is your day it is our annual giving show the phone number here is triple eight eight two five five two two

five Rachel you and I first wrote about this a long long time ago in your first number one bestseller smart money smart kids and you've talked about it even more since then the idea that

contentment generosity and

um gratitude are all intertwined and

they're all choices and they all end up affecting your your wealth building they

all end up affecting your money yeah I mean I think it's people sometimes are like you know it makes no sense when you guys encourage us to be giving even while we're getting out of debt or while we're saving up for the emergency fund like as we're going through our process to get a solid Financial Foundation under us you're wanting us to like let money not go towards

the debt and get it paid off faster but to actually give and you know so like we'll hear those conversations sometimes or Those Questions by people with people and and the answer always is yes because What Not only would it what

it changes in you but creating that habit of generosity and and the change

of your heart of what ends up happening and and suddenly you know when you're generous gratitude flows through when you're generous you realize gosh all the stuff I thought I needed I I really don't I don't I don't need to be fulfilled by that you know there's a joy out of living without open hands that really does bring a level of contentment that I think in turn allows you to get out of debt even faster and say even more that's the weirdest thing and it's a beautiful formula that I kind

of feel like we've cracked in a great way so it's wonderful the Triad of

generosity contentment and

generosity contentment and gratitude the Triad yeah and all of these are things you can just choose to practice and they uh they build on each other and they take you where you want to go with this money stuff this is the annual giving hour our giving show here on the Ramsay

show

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thank you for joining us America open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five this is your last day to enter the Ramsey Christmas Cash giveaway the giveaway ends tonight at 11 59 PM Central Time

so if you haven't yet go to ramseysolutions.com giveaway you know for your chance to win the five thousand dollar grand prize of course no purchase necessary and of course you have to be 18 or older to win that's ramseysolutions.com giveaway don't forget that our 10 sale

is still going on and you can get our number one best-selling books like all of Rachel's number one best-selling books there's three of them and a couple of mine The Total Money Makeover number one ten dollars baby steps millionaire is my latest number one ten dollars and speaking of Total Money Makeover when you get the book we often tell people to flip through and read the stories

first because that's where the hope is it's in the stories of people who got free from debt change their family tree because they finally dealt with the person in the mirror these stories are powerful this stuff works be weird head on over to ramseysolutions.com and check the ten dollar sale out this is our annual giving show and we're talking to you about your giving story or your receiving story that is inspiring open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five Leslie is in Fort

Worth Texas hi Leslie Merry Christmas hey Dave Merry Christmas and thank you so much for letting me talk to you today about my story well tell us we'd love to hear it about seven years ago my son Jackson was

diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma he was eight years old at the time and we were

very blessed he went through treatment pretty quickly and was pronounced good

to go after about nine months well at

the end of his journey through that the

hospital referred us to an organization called a wish with wings and they're a wish granting organization here in Texas and any kid who goes through a situation

like Jackson where they face a life-threatening condition can be granted a wish and they granted his wish

and he got to meet Dude Perfect and we got to go to Disney but that wasn't the most important part like like you are Dave they are dealers in Hope and they

gave our family hope they were just such a sweet organization full of loving people and when you've got a kid with cancer even family members and Friends don't always know how to help you and how to be there for you and this organization of people did and we fell in love with them so about a year after Jackson finished chemotherapy he wanted to do something special so Jackson and I did a 200 mile hike and raised twenty

five thousand dollars from family and friends who pledged to wish with wings

for him doing this hike how old was he then he was nine years old oh my God you did a 200 mile hike one year after chemo with a nine-year-old and he did it in 14 days tough tough little man well now he's a

tough bigger man but still nothing to stop this guy wow yeah yeah and uh so

but still our family wanted to do more uh because we just love these people and

we started volunteering and when they had events we would go volunteer for those events I launched a business not long after that and the business has started doing well so in the last few years our family has been able to donate 65 000 to wish with wings and that's

enough to Grant eight which eight wishes and then my wonderful children have gotten their friends involved every time my kid has a birthday party he's collecting gifts for other kids who are sick who have cancer every time their

school has some kind of fundraising opportunity they plug this organization because they care about them so you talk a lot Dave about changing your family tree and to me this changed our family

tree because someone gave us hope and

taught us that our number one goal should be helping other people have hope so we are just totally sold out on

helping this organization else that is for kids with cancer yeah what's the name of it one more time a wish with wings a wish with wings very cool yeah this whole situation was a force multiplier one plus one doesn't equal two in this deal one plus one is equal ended up

equaling a hundred well and you can take a bad situation and you can let it gnaw at you or

pretend it didn't happen or you can decide you're going to make it into something better and while I'll never be

grateful that my kid went through cancer I am so grateful that now we understand

what it's like to be the people who are

the recipient of bad situations that are not they're doing and it's taught everyone in our family including both our kids compassion and love and we

really now in our family budget we put giving as a top line item there are so

many things we just don't need and we thought we did we would much rather give back and I know that sounds so cheesy and over the top but it's true because when we see these other families they don't have it easy like we did well yeah and when you face something Leslie like that like when your child is sick and you know and I'm sure you got

the the fear of what you know the ultimate fear of what what if we what if we lose him I mean all I'm sure you go through all those emotions I can't even imagine um and I think too it's that perspective that when you realize wow he came out of this and like it's life is so short and

you know all the stuff that we think is going to make us happy in this life that we go out and try to purchase and experience all this stuff that we're just like go go go go go in the consumeristic aspect of our world that we think is going to give us joy you know you in turn are like you know you realize oh my gosh no like

it it truly is this giving back out of this pain and the story that you guys went through but but it's this perspective that you have that you're like okay it's you know we could go buy a bunch of stuff with this money or we can give it and in your life like you are you are putting True Value um on where value should be so Leslie that's absolutely incredible well done Leslie Merry Christmas to

you what a great giving story what a great giving story yeah so it turns out pushing by now by now by now filling your cart is probably not what life's about yeah

who knew sorry Amazon but yeah there you

go hey a few weeks ago we told you our studio sponsors here PODS moving and storage we're going to be entering uh the giving season they're going to join us on this whole giving Crusade they're holding a sweepstakes to give away a free move or storage rental for one Ramsey listener we're excited to share the winner today it seemed fitting to do here on the giving show because this was up to a five thousand dollar value that's generous PODS moving thank you very cool stuff so congratulations to

Andrea K Andrea recently moved from

Apollo Beach Florida to just a little ways up the road here in Hermitage Tennessee she shared that she's ecstatic to have her move paid for by pods and hey who wouldn't be welcome to Tennessee Andrea and uh the giveaway is over if

you're looking for a company that does will that will work with you take care of you cause you to have a great moving experience well the PODS moving and storage folks are the people and they're the only ones that are Ramsay trusted in

the moving provider space you can check

them out at pods.com Ramsay we appreciate their partnership here with us their sponsorship of the show one of the reasons you are able to get this show all the ways you get this show is our sponsors the advertisers the people that are with us and the studio sponsorship's a big deal so the PODS moving and storage people are great folks and we are kind of hard to work

with in terms of we don't endorse just anybody we don't put Ramsay trusted on just anybody just because they've got the money and we'd rather just sit here with a studio then the PODS moving in storage Studio but the pods people are great folks I personally met with a lot of their leadership team they do a great job they give discounts to the military those of you in the military you move all the time and they give you great discounts they're great American company and um and Andrea k okay just got her

move paid for there you go that's pretty cool very nice yeah moving can be it can be pricey so when you just get it paid for you're like yeah it's great it can be really pushy if you go with one of those companies that mistreats you yeah it's uh they mistreat your stuff in the process yes yeah pod's moving and storage thanks guys it's a giving show today here on the Ramsay show Rachel Cruz is my co-host you hang with us we'll be here

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hey it's Rachel Cruz co-host on the

Ramsay show if you want to do your debt free scream live on the show visit ramseysolutions.com set free screen we'd

love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story that's ramsesolutions.com debt free screen

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ERS of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the pots moving in storage Studios it's the Ramsay show where debt is dumb Cassius king and the paid off Home Mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice we help

people build wealth do work that they love

and create actual amazing relationships

thank you for joining us America Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality number one best-selling author three times over and my daughter is my co-host today as we take your calls today we're talking about giving this is our annual giving show if you have a great giving story some outrageous generosity that you received or that you caused to happen meaning you gave hey we want to hear inspiring giving and generosity Stories

the phone number is triple eight eight two five five two two five Merry Christmas America tis the season for generosity this is the place where we celebrate that we teach you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else generous people

make us smile generous people make our eyes leak and that's what this show is all about open phones at triple eight

eight two five five two two five starting off this hour with a giving story Ben in Birmingham Merry Christmas Ben Merry Christmas thank you for having me on the show Absolutely so tell us your giving story so um this is actually kind of a receiving story that my siblings got but

um so my parents and our family have been missionaries for the past 20 years my parents move overseas uh early 2000 but prior to that my dad while he was in

seminary was working at FedEx and they met some friends who basically became really close family friends and as my dad was was working he kind of made his way up in the ranks that this job where he was working and when they decided to go overseas this family friend basically said that because you know my dad was willing to give up his career and kind of go overseas to serve that they were going to basically purchase uh cars all

of their children whenever they came back for college so there's five of us

five children wow so whenever we ended

up all coming back he essentially bought

a 15 to 20 000 car for each of us he

paid for the insurance for the first year for that car he paid for basically all the maintenance for the first year on those cars so kind of over the course of I would say probably 10 years as each of our siblings came back he ended up probably paying about a hundred thousand dollars worth of you know money that he put into buying cars for us to essentially get established

and have a way to be you know transported while we were back in the country and our parents were still overseas so it's pretty incredible gift on his part um and a pretty awesome story that I've actually never really gotten to tell a lot of people so very cool I love that

yeah I love the way the whole thing went down it's a friendship and they just admired your mom and dad and the you know nothing you could listen if you want to do something for someone and blow their minds do something for their kids exactly I mean that touched your mom and dad more than than if they'd gotten the money directly or if he'd wrote them 100 000 check to underwrite their their Ministry or their mission work uh it wouldn't have meant near as much as what he did yeah exactly and basically it

provided because they were still overseas when we would come back for college so essentially it provided us transportation to get to our school uh

school during the semesters our summer jobs during the summer to basically go and see our our extended family in different parts of the country because without that I mean my parents definitely couldn't have afforded to buy cars for us whenever we needed to come back to the States for school yeah absolutely pretty tremendous tremendous gift on his part for sure okay Ben this might be a weird question in

the middle of your giving story but yeah once some calls we've taken on the show some people have a really hard time receiving gifts so how did your parents what was

kind of their posture when this friend came forward and said hey I wanna I wanna give your kids cars when they come home um you know like were they was it a

hundred percent just they accepted it in this humble Spirits or did they have any

level of like oh man we wish we couldn't do it we can't do that for our kids and that receiving you know because I want to speak to that in a in a in encouraging people to receive the gift because sometimes sometimes I think people struggle receiving as well yeah I think it was honestly kind of easy for them because I think that they knew that that was something that they weren't going to be able to provide for us whenever we came back to the States

um so in a way it was kind of maybe a relief for them and kind of a burden off of their shoulders in terms of having to provide for their kids and that in that circumstance for sure so I think it was honestly kind of kind of a relief yeah no I love that that's that's what I pray you know people's heart is but I think sometimes people need to hear that to say hey it's okay to receive

and you can do that like it doesn't speak to who you are if you're the one given something so

um so I love that that's so great very cool Ben thank you for sharing that story man absolutely appreciate it absolutely Merry Christmas good stuff open phones here triple eight eight two five five two two five Patricia is in Connecticut hi Patricia tell us your giving story Merry Christmas by the way

you too

recipient of outrageous generosity that I wanted to be able to share with you guys and I haven't really told many people this story um because I felt like it wasn't my story to tell since I was the recipient but it's been two years and I think it's time for everyone to know that the business that I run was given to me

um in October of 2020. so I was given a

small business which is actually a self-serve frozen yogurt shop oh wow so how did that get about

um I got laid off from Corporate America back in 2014 um and I decided I didn't want to go back to that so I picked up a part-time job at the

local froyo shop I'm right in town

um in November of 2015.

um and then my husband and I actually started the baby steps January of 2016.

and then we finished our baby steps we paid off all our debt and then somewhere along the line the the owners had asked me because I was still working at the frozen yogurt shop um to purchase the store or they had numerous stores so they you know had it had been discussed um but they also knew I didn't borrow money so uh I would always tell them no

because I couldn't afford to own a business of course um and then covet of course came in April 2020 we have to close the shop down so I was actually unemployed um it

was self-served frozen yogurt so it just wasn't sustainable which was devastating um but we actually did reopen in July of 2020. um so my bosses decided to reopen and that's what we did um and then a month later they one of the bosses pulled me aside into the into the back kitchen which is never a good sign right I was nervous um and uh he had asked me if I wanted

the store if I wanted to you know take the store be the store owner and I said I don't really know what you mean what does that mean and he said we're going to give you the store but you're gonna get this store with equipment that is 11 years old they have been in business for 11 years yeah I'll tell you what I want to hear the rest of

this and I'm up on Commercial because I don't want to run this into the ground it's too good hang with us through the commercial Patricia we'll hear the rest of the story here on the annual giving show on the Ramsay show [Music]

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Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my co-host today this is our annual giving show here on the Ramsey Show we're taking your calls with giving stories receiving stories this is all about generosity live like no one else and later you can live and give like no one else we were in the middle of Patricia's story in Connecticut she's left Corporate America went to work for a frozen yogurt shop

and they offered to sell it to her a couple of times and then during covet after going back to work the owner walks in one day and says they are offering to give it to her now

let's pick that story up there Patricia thank you thank you yeah that's pretty much how it went um so like I said they offered to give me the store um and the store had been in business for about 11 years already so of course the equipment you know the machines all that stuff was 11 years old um so that happened in about August and sure enough October 14th of 2020 we

closed on the business um I started you know an LLC I opened new bank accounts um and I did all that and we actually closed and here I am two you know two and a half years later as a small business owner in a very small town

um but enjoying every second of it so wow what do you what prompted them to do

that uh I like I said they had offered a few

times I think you know when when customers would come in I was always there so so customers would say oh is this your store and I would say no no no but they would always say well you treat it like your store because I had so much passion for what I was doing and it sounds silly people think it's silly but you know at my interview with with the store owners at when I started I had

told you know I had told them I treat every job like it's a career

um so I'm going to have a lot of passion I love being around people of course there's you know our clientele is generally kids uh so I think that after

covid there was a lot of restrictions um and they actually own a hardware

store in the same Plaza uh so they were

really you know we all know everyone was stuck home during covid so they were just slammed over there I mean they were every day all day everybody was home at the hardware store so I think it was just time to to figure something out to Let It Go ah okay all right but through

your diligence of being so excellent you

know at your job you're the person that shined through to yeah to receive that which is which is amazing it really is and it's been amazing and it's more than just a small business year you know it's definitely a family business I'm actually looking inside the store right now my husband's covering for me while I'm on the phone with you guys my mom does all our shopping at Costco every day so you know my retired mom guessed it with a Costco every day it's basically a joy for her and uh my

son does all the heavy lifting when orders come in or take some garbage out at night you know I have a bunch of great employees also but um it's the customers that really make it just really worthwhile it's it's definitely what I feel I was called to do oh I think you were yeah you're the backbone of America small business people like you that's what makes this entire Place run

it is not large corporate Goobs and it's not the government it's people like you that cause make this country great the free enterprise system causes people like you to shine and people like the former owners that were generous to you to shine yeah absolutely that's incredible just hand it over a business yeah pretty cool that's awesome very very very cool stuff hi Patricia thank you for sharing that Merry Christmas to

you we appreciate you hanging out with us today this is our annual giving show our question of the day comes from blinds.com find out for yourself whyblinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code Ramsay to

get the best deal so today's question comes from Jim in Florida I'm struggling

in giving recently because I have plans that I need to accomplish buy a house and get my small business off the grounds I am a generous person but I

feel like I'm being cheap when it comes to giving or when my wife gets to get

something for her friends or sister I don't feel good while deep inside I know that I am I'm kind of confused if I'm changing to

a jerk and a selfish person but honestly I'm doing it for my family so I need some help Jim you know I mean I think that there's a reality that when you have

your bases covered in your home and with

your family and the needs are provided for it allows that generosity to flow

even greater uh with with maybe not as

much stress but this doesn't sound like it's a I need to take care of my family first I mean yes you want to be able to buy a house for sure get my small business off the ground you know but this I would say to those gym that that giving it doesn't have to be extravagant and so starting to give a little until

you can give a lot right like if there are things in your life that you're wanting to do we all have that but that doesn't mean you can't do both is what I would say yeah it sounds like um that the uh what's bothering you more

than the actual giving um to the sister or to the friends or whatever by your wife is that it feels like that's blocking these other goals and it's not that's the reality so the way you can overcome that is just budget for it just say we're going to put a line item in the budget you and your wife that agree we agree on our entire budget but we're going to agree on this is the amount that that your wife has for

friends and sister and uh don't go over that and then you

can use the rest of the budget and see that you are able to accomplish your goals of doing stuff in the business or saving up for a home or whatever you'll see that it you know if you budget 100 bucks or something it's not going to keep you from doing those other things but this idea that it's not got any limits on it and um you're not in agreement when

she's doing these things that's where the rub is so if you were in agreement and it had a reasonable limit and you were in agreement on the limit on the amount that that you know your wife has for these two activities sister and friends or whatever you want to call it uh then you'd be okay with it uh but it's just the ambivalence of it that is uh that's probably throwing

you because you're you're obviously a person who who plans but this is not something it doesn't make you a bad person to say I'm going to accomplish some goals that's that's not a bad person now what we do teach and have taught from the very beginning around Ramsey and I think it's good to get into this a little bit is you want a baseline of giving that is

your normal rhythm in your life uh every month and then you have when you are are

prospering and you've got extra money

above that normal budgeted giving that's

just flying around and you have a choice between buying you know another thingy

and doing some generosity then you can change and and do some generosity with that Surplus money that extra money that's from prospering but when you're first starting out uh we teach people to limit their giving to their Baseline normal giving now for those of us that are uh Christians Evangelical Christians we teach and believe within our faith to

give a tithe a tenth of our income to your local church that's your Baseline that's your normal rhythm of giving you don't stop doing that and uh above the tithe is called

offerings and all throughout scripture offerings come from Surplus from

prospering and so they would come after you're out of debt after you've taken care of your own household and and so this idea that you're supposed to give away the rent money uh and your your kids are become homeless because you were generous that's absurd and it's not scriptural for those of you that are Christians by the way take care of your own household first or you're worse than unbeliever that's scriptural

and that's not lacking in generosity it doesn't make you a bad person quite the opposite it makes you a good person yeah absolutely so we start with taking care of our house then we

can expand and say we're going to take care of people outside of our house and then we can expand and say we're going to change our family tree and then we can expand and say let's change our whole community but that's that all comes from the Surplus above the normal rhythm of giving and I think you need to put a rhythm of giving Jim in your budget for

your wife to have some freedom without being worried about you being upset about it this is the Ramsay show

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personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today this is our annual giving show the show

where we talk about the power of generosity if you've got a great story that's inspiring on where you've given or received we would love to hear it and

you can call us at triple eight eight two five five two two five speaking of giving uh this Show's free for you on podcast on YouTube it's free for you on 680 radio stations all across America tens of millions of you join us every

week thank you we appreciate that we are grateful for you uh but it's time for you to give back you need to go and uh leave a rating a five-star rating at uh wherever you listen and don't leave a one star they're not valuable at all that's why they call them one star put a five star on there thank you we appreciate that and you need to subscribe it helps other people be notified by all the algorithms and uh oh the various things that the

wonderful people on the internet do to allow you to know that these things exist it's caused by you subscribing so subscribe leave a uh a rating and share

the show tell people where you listen to it on talk radio send a link to your podcast off of Spotify or apple or wherever it is or YouTube say Hey you ought to check these guys out the information is real and it's not you know we're not on here whining and crying and angry every day we're here helping people and so it's kind of an unusual show in that regard

you ought to spread the spread the word we had to get more of this kind of thing out there in this world today so open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five all of our callers today will be

getting the live and give box which has in it The Total Money Makeover book the uh baby steps millionaires book and a one-year membership to Financial Peace University this allows you to break this up and and give it away or book A book A book a class however you want to do it or use the whole thing yourself the live and give Box by the way if you want to

buy it it's only 99 bucks at Ramsey Solutions and that's about 50 60 bucks under what all of those items retail for so it's a good deal the live and give box one of our traditions on the giving show that we do is we bring on a few of our Ramsay team

members a few of the 1100 folks in this building who all practice generosity at different levels and have great stories but uh no question about it Nathan is with us and Nathan's got a great generosity story hey Nathan how are you good Dave how are you doing good Merry Christmas same to you Merry Christmas a little nerve-wracking putting on that microphone isn't it in just a little bit you're doing good you're gonna make it so tell us your story man so so my my

mentor is a guy by the name of Stan freeze super nice guy I worked with him for uh 10 years and and

and he it's like over the years he's just been so uh generous with me but there there was one instance that it that it completely floored me so

about uh 10 years ago

I was I was working for him and I was actually uh dating um um she is actually now my wife uh Lauren over here and and she and and so I

wanted to propose to her and I was just just casually uh talking to uh Stan about it one day

saying because you know because back

then this was actually before Dave and so I was very stupid with money so I didn't have the money to buy a ring for for uh Lauren and so I so I was just

kind of kind of venting to him about it one day didn't really think anything of it and then probably about two three days later he actually drags me to one of the conference rooms he says come here come here come here so so so we we go to one of the conference rooms and he

gives me a box and he says here you go I

said okay so I open it up and it's a

really nice ring and he just tells me you marry that girl right now oh my God whoa

just like that yep yep so he gave he gave you the engagement ring yes he did wow that's cool yeah he was um

um because I was just flirting I said Stan did you buy this and he said oh no no no I I um I upgraded my my uh wife's ring so you

can have that one and I'm like oh my gosh oh

oh my goodness wow that's very cool yeah

so how tempted have you been to do something like that for somebody now that you're out of debt and doing well oh we're we just we just try to find

just seem like every opportunity my life's very good with a discernment and

and so like when when she tells me we need to do you know to give somebody money or to

to you know to help them out help them move I always listen to her and say okay you you know what you're doing smart man I was about the same thing I was like smart man oh that's amazing okay that's what I love about this show though is I'm like all the different ways that people step into people's lives right and intersect them in their stories where they're at

and be able to to help right and even something like a proposal to be able to say hey go marry that girl yeah here's the ring and all that so stand stand well done is it still the ring you have your wife sitting over here yes yeah yeah that's amazing absolutely amazing there it is right there I like it so great all right Nathan how long you been with Ramsay since uh January all right

and tell everybody what you do here I am a a I'm a a senior writer with the uh content team

absolutely very cool well thank you brother for sharing that you did a great job and that's a wonderful giving story a wonderful Journey yes thank you Merry Christmas y'all very good stuff fun fun fun that's about as good as it gets I love it hey open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five

Teresa wrote in uh from the baby steps

community on Facebook group if you didn't know there's an official baby steps Community with uh I think it's over a million people in it now on Facebook uh that's the official baby steps Ramsey Community I don't know it's called something like that today a family member reached out asking for help they're truly struggling receiving food stamps but we're desperate for items you cannot buy with food stamps in less than an hour

I was able to go through my stockpile and fill a giant Ikea bag with every possible item they may need I'm gifting them toilet paper cleaning supplies toothpaste deodorant napkins air freshener laundry soap dryer sheets tissue trash bags and about a dozen other household necessities on my way over I'll be picking up dog food a gas gift card and some gifts they can give each other for Christmas I'm

so thankful for being debt free and that a bunch of recent overtime is allowing me to help them without it impacting my budget at all I'm finally in the season of giving

and I couldn't be more thankful for that oh I love that isn't that great and even just that a little bit of that convenience we're like all right I'm gonna just go through my pantry and see what I have here and be able to fill up yeah fill up a bag and be able to give it away well and you can double up I mean

you know a lot of people that you know they do the Costco thing and they buy like six jars of peanut butter and so they've got plenty you know so you're not gonna go without that's right that's right it works out you know it's it's uh but just to be able to do that spur of the moment and catch somebody Katie says for so many years I hated December my husband's son and sister's birthday plus Christmas I could never do

what I wanted this year I'm taking five

of us to Florida to my parents for Christmas doing house projects for them while there everyone can have what they need and some of what they want for Christmas birthday is plenty for giving but the hardest part is keeping the list straight check the bank a few minutes ago because it felt too spendy and I had

only spent five percent of what was allotted that's weird but good weird keep going it gets fun yeah there you go

well you know what it takes the stress off the holidays um one of the biggest elements of stress is the financial threat of a hangover a

financial hangover that lasts till May and when you've got your money in the name of generosity right yeah all in the name of generosity I hated December she says yeah I get it I completely get that this is the annual giving show here on

the Ramsey Show

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well it's our annual giving show and all

day we've gotten to hear some incredible stories of outrageous generosity this stuff that gets us fired up it never gets old guys if you've learned anything from the stories we're hearing today I hope you've learned that giving is the most fun you can have with money and you'll never have more fun than helping someone else change their life and one way you can do that is the live and give box everyone today has been

getting the live and give box that calls in with a giving story this is the Box we gave everyone and today we're offering it I thought it was 99 this is even more 79.99 that's 20 off a normal that's like

half price for these items it's an

entire year of Financial Peace University a copy of The Total Money Makeover and a copy of baby steps millionaires if there's someone in your life who needs this and there is then you give it to them you're going to show them hope you're going to show them Freedom they might be the ones calling in on the next giving show because you changed their life so get the live and give box at ramsaysolutions.com super sale on this thing 79.99 today you'll get it in time for

Christmas if you call it call in the day or email her to click on the website today and get it nobody call anymore and again that's ramsesolutions.com box you know we used to have people call customer care and order stuff I bet there's still a few that do there probably is but but majority go on the internet yes I mean it's just kind of a foreign

like there's two of them I know it feels

like there's a lot I don't know there's a lot of them all right Andrea is with us in San Diego Andrea happy Christmas

to you Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Dave and Rachel thanks for having me on the show Absolutely tell us your giving story please I have a receiving generosity story my

husband and I got married last year November in 2021 and we went

through Financial Peace University together and we're on baby steps 3B and

he is active duty military and is

deployed this year so last month on our

one-year wedding anniversary since he's gone I invited one of my best girlfriends to go out to dinner with me I said come to dinner with me this is you know my treat let's just have a good

meal and good conversation you know get whatever you want don't read the menu from right to left and so we went out to dinner um at a really nice restaurant the the type of restaurant where the manager is you know roaming around talking to people making sure everything's satisfactory so the manager comes over to our table and he asks you know if

we're visiting from out of town because it was a pretty touristy area and we said no we live here and so he said oh you know what's what's the occasion then and I said well it's my wedding anniversary but I'm just here with my friend because my husband is away for work and he had a pretty good guess he

said oh is your husband in the military and I said yeah he's a big military Community here and he said oh you know I'm sorry that you guys are apart but you know hopefully we can make your meal enjoyable and he asked me what what your

wedding anniversary it was and I just you know held up one finger and his jaw dropped and he said oh my gosh you know I'm sorry and he said you know which

dessert on the menu were you girls eyeing you know and so we looked at one and picked one I can't even remember what it is now and so of course they they bring out that dessert which was really nice and my friend and I are finishing our meal and a waiter came

over the server from the next section over it wasn't our server and he comes up and Taps me on the shoulder and he said that the couple sitting in the next section over the table behind us over her heard me telling the manager that my husband was deployed and it was my first wedding anniversary and they had paid for our entire meal I love it

as they should have well played that's

amazing yeah I thought you're gonna say it was the manager that just like you know picked it up and just said we got it but it was another customer there yeah that did that oh that's amazing

yeah we I kind of thought when the manager was asking like oh which dessert did you like you know I I thought that maybe they were gonna comp the dessert right right my friend and I were just so

shocked and luckily the couple was still there they were like finishing up and so I was able to turn around and I just said thank you so much for you know your generosity and they they said no thank

you thank your husband for his service and um yeah we I didn't really get to talk with them much but I asked you know if they were visiting or local and they said that they were visiting on vacation and they're flying home the next day and and that was it and yeah just like the

spontaneity and like the impact like I

feel like that is just has such a bigger impact on me than it did them and it's

like that makes my first anniversary like so memorable absolutely how long you been married now uh well last month was our one year anniversary just happened wow okay

I love that and I love the picking up the bill at restaurants Dave you're really good at that like if you see someone you know but I think because I've been the recipient of that not to that extent um Andrea like yeah you're one year anniversary with your husband deployed I mean like that's just like over the top but anytime someone does anything you think oh my gosh like

it is it's so shocking to be on the receiving end and especially with you in all those circumstances like that feel that's just I mean that like literally makes you smile for weeks and weeks just thinking about that yeah very cool absolutely very cool hey and

do tell your husband we we appreciate him too we love you guys we appreciate what you do for America and um all the

men and women like him and like you and the sacrifice that you do for him um being uh at work in quotes and if

it's out of San Diego then that could mean a whole lot of things yep that's right so um yeah wow thank you thank you

very very much open phones at triple eight eight two five five two two five I had the honor

of doing some things with SEAL Teams and

um of course they're based out of San Diego and uh when they're at work uh

that means they're downrange uh it's

it's yeah that's when it's getting real so somebody is uh some bad guy somewhere is in trouble that's what that means so uh it's pretty serious and these men and women they they are uh their level of uh

sacrifice their level of honor their level of training is otherworldly it is

it's pretty amazing so anytime you've got the opportunity to bless someone in uniform uh please do it uh I don't care

if it's a police uniform a firefighter's uniform or a set of Scrubs sitting there

or certainly a military uniform you just reach over and do that every single time and um you know I watched a guy the other day somebody beat me to it I was in a nice restaurant and this guy walked in with a uh a Vietnam Veteran's hat on

the ball cap just a ball cap and

um he was uh elderly I mean this guy was

he was uh had I had served early in Vietnam probably um and uh but I mean it wasn't 30 seconds before people started lining up to buy that tables from you know I mean it didn't take but a second because you could just look at that guy and go that's a guy that needs to be honored yeah you know absolutely pretty cool stuff and there's something that happens Rachel you're like right

when somebody buys your dinner like that regardless of whether you're in a position of Honor like that or not um you're just maybe a position of need uh whatever it is but there's something about food and that that transaction that makes the receiving person feel very special yes at absolutely I hate I hate story because it's nothing compared to the all we just had but when we

we had been married about three months and moved to Nashville I guess it's been about four months and we were starting off our jobs once and I mean in our early 20s just doing it we had our budget and we couldn't really go out to eat like you know we were in the Franklin area um living in outside of Nashville and we

we kind of were like okay we can go out to dinner like twice a week because kind of like our Rhythm and so we went out on a big date night to to Puckett's downtown Franklin yeah uh one night and some friends that we knew family friends they were a little bit older uh than us and again we had just been married about four four or five months

and I remember we got Waters because we didn't want to pay for a drink like I mean we were like in that that season of life and they paid for our meal and I felt like I won the lottery I was like it's not coming out of our budget like oh my God yeah there's just it takes you off guard yep there's something there's something makes you feel special

I know it's a pretty cool but you do that great you always are paying for people's meals a restaurant and I just love that I I think it's just a it's a beautiful it's a beautiful thing fun stuff right it's our annual giving show here on the

Ramsey show man I love generous people

they make us smile they make our eyes leak this is the Ramsay show Dave here you can find all of our shows with the Ramsay Network app on your smartphone it's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes download the Ramsay Network app in your

favorite app store today

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live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions broadcasting from the PODS moving and storage Studios it's the

Ramsay show where debt is dumb Cassius king and the paid off Home Mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status

symbol of choice we help people

build wealth do work that they actually love and create real amazing

relationships this day's shows are dedicated to giving

to generosity it's our annual giving show in honor of Christmas time Merry

Christmas America hey we're glad you're with us Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today and we're taking uh your calls all about

giving we want to hear your stories that are inspiring about giving and about

receiving generosity is the best thing

you can do with money it's the most fun you'll ever have with money and we teach you around here that you will sacrifice to win you will live like no one else

so that later you can live and give

like no one else so check it out we want to hear your story open phones here at triple eight eight two five five two two five J in a

Washington DC is with us Merry Christmas Jay how are you hey Merry Christmas Dave and Rachel it's real pleasure to talk with both of you you too tell us your giving story

yes sir so I'd briefly like to share today my family's progression of her generosity over the past couple Christmases and what we have planned this year but first my why so my three

siblings and I were raised by a single mother who's a real hero to all of us all four of us are successful adults and so ever real hard for helping single moms however I can over the years of course we were helped by family and friends and strangers uh in many ways and so I feel compelled to do the same in 2020 my wife's in my first Christmas

after completing baby step three we were finally in a position that we could expand our generosity to beyond our church and we opted to find a deserving stranger to help so I chose a diner type restaurant a few days before Christmas walked in and asked for the manager I asked him if he had any single moms working that day who could you use a little hand up with a money gift for

the holiday now someone came to his mind right away and he was able to help me hand an envelope with a little over 200 to a grateful mom with two little ones last year last year my family and I

became a little more strategic than that I called a different restaurant about a month before Christmas and asked for the manager and if she had any single months

a good benefit from a monetary gift there she immediately thought of one mom who had recently successfully completed rehab the manager and I skiing for a weekend shift for when this particular waitress was working and my wife and my kids and I visited that restaurant for a drink and a slice of pie in about afternoon and we wanted to be anonymous but evidently every employee in the place knew besides the waitress that we were about to give the gift they were all smiling and watching us the whole time and about 15 minutes in to our

visit we left the waitress 400 tip and

walked out so this year Dave and Rachel I'm a public school administrator and I get daily reminders of how blessed my family and I are through the course of serving my school community and unfortunately this year I learned recently the two siblings who attend my school lost their father to an accident and our school team reached out to this newly widowed mom to see how we could support

and she shared that among other things she was struggling with finances and and because her husband handled all the financial matters I immediately thought that my family and I could personally gift them a subscription to Ramsay plus that she

would really benefit from the financial coaching aspect of that so I called your company and Rick one of your longtime agents shout out to Rick answered I

explained the situation on behalf of the company he generously gifted the year of Ramsey plus to me to give to the Widow I'm really grateful for your company for stepping in to help and my of course my family and I've been talking about how we will outrageously give this year and it will go to our Widow and our school Community we have to help our single moms especially those who are widowed all

these all these ladies are superheroes absolutely yeah they are they they do wear a cape every one of them and uh most of them work multiple

jobs just to get by and uh it's it's a very

real thing so you've touched a nerve you really have that's fabulous well done Jay thank you I love that Jay thank you thank you so much for the inspiration yeah and uh we we will continue amen keep it up brother merry Christmas too you're very cool very amazing heart Jay you have you and your sweet family and like that's and I love the intentionality of calling the restaurant talking to them right like

you kind of build it up and then his kids Jay's kids you know going along on that as well like there's there's just life-changing things well if you if you can more carefully identify the target you're more likely to hit the target yes random things you kind of get sometimes when you're doing this kind of weird generosity stuff you you get a little nervous and you start kind of thrashing around

and get a little bit random and sometimes you miss the target yeah you know it's not your giving doesn't do what is what you kind of hoped it would do uh but in his case he's being very selective and helping someone go okay I love that that's a that's a person uh that okay now I've got that dialed in that's that's very cool and you know what I'll I'll brag on Rick our guy here

because I know he's talking about over in our uh Ramsay concierge team and um uh all of you

folks out there that own and run businesses uh that's a leadership lesson right there uh you know the way our team is Led they are one of the uh you know

we teach them to have a self-employed mentality treat this place like they own it treat the books that you sell like you own them treat the uh you know the stuff around here like you know that like you own it and Rick treated that like he owned it he said that's somebody that this is something that if I own this company I would give that and so he gave that and oh by the way if you're running the company your leadership style needs to equip and Empower your

people to do that to be generous to be generous without asking they don't need to check in just do the right thing and you know he didn't give away ten thousand dollars he gave away one one-year membership to financial base University we'll be okay you know it's okay and so it's he's equipped he's empowered to do that all through people all through this place here and matter of fact they're more than that it's like

we demand that they do it it's part of their job to be generous and to take care of people as one-offs now if you call in and just you know and if you call in and make up a lie and try to mess with us we'll charge a double Okay so

so we do we do that too because we treat it like we own it we don't be conned but we do want to be generous there's a difference right I mean totally totally absolutely way to go Rick that's very very cool stuff that's how it's supposed to be done so you can uh my my point of

that is is if those of you that run small businesses out there and lots of you do your entree leaders entree leaders meaning you entrepreneurs and leaders you can magnify your generosity just by

empowering your team to do it and uh

because they have more touch points sometimes than you do so it gives you a lot of ways to do it this is an annual giving show here on the Ramsey Show

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welcome to the Ramsey Show Rachel Cruz Ramsay personality is my co-host today as we do our annual giving show we are

taking calls from those of you telling your giving stories we're less than two weeks away from Christmas the Ramsey Christmas Cash giveaway ends tonight at midnight and by the time we're done we will have given away thousands of dollars why do we do that here at Ramsey because of one of the things I've learned is that outrageous generosity changes me logically you'd think that being unselfish makes you a generous person but the opposite is true being a generous person changes your heart and then you become less selfish

and that affects every area of your life unselfish people are better husbands better wives better friends better parents better employers better employees people just want to be around you more so when you're fired up because you're working the baby steps it's changing your life it is time to start giving start developing that habit and

while you're over there signing up for the free money get the ten dollar sale on The Total Money Makeover books the baby steps millionaire books all of Rachel's books you've got hope don't keep it to yourself spread it around go to ramseysolutions.com we got the best deals running right now so it's easy for you to find outrageously generous gifts for the season check them out ramsesolutions.com open phones at triple

eight eight two five five two two five harmony is in Santa Fe New Mexico Merry

Christmas Harmony Merry Christmas I am thrilled to talk to you it is such an honor to participate in the giving show well thank you tell us your story okay so my giving story started a few years back I got a really nice bonus at work and I I love my job and I know I'm

good at it but I also know I am nothing without my team so I wanted to share

and it was kind of a little conundrum because I wasn't really supposed to advertise that I'd gotten a bonus I don't think there were a whole lot of them giving out that year and I couldn't just give them money because I don't think that would have been appropriate so I did my secret Santa idea I just

made up some envelopes with cash in them and the person's name and that said from

Secret Santa thank you for all you do and I snuck around and I flipped them under the office doors and it was just

so much fun that I decided right then and there that I would just go ahead and add a line item to my budget so I could have a secret santa fun and do it again

so I did it again next year and then I

also noticed how great our janitors are where I work and of course everything we do would come to a screeching halt if they didn't do their jobs amen they're just always so friendly and cheerful and they say hi to everybody and they knock on every door of every office every day and empty the trash and all the other things that janitors do so I decided they would be a part of it too and then the most amazing thing that happened was that it went viral one of the janitors

sent an email to the all employees distribution list that said Thank You secret santa whoever you are and people

started asking her what was she talking about no she took a picture of the

envelope and sent that out and then yeah

so this is like um the entire staff gets these emails and how many is that Harmony how many how many people are getting this about about 500 okay okay that's amazing yeah so after about a day or so someone replied to the email chain saying I got

one of those too and then another one me too and these weren't the ones that I had given uh and secret santa stuff started magically

appearing all over the facility oh my gosh Harmony sounds like Santa got in on it I can't believe it it was so fun and I

can't wait to see what happens this year um because it's we're not quite we work right up until the day before um Christmas Eve so it's going to probably be next week when when things really I I'm expecting to see it again this year so and you know it's right

what you said it this is like like therapy for me there's I get so much more out of this than I would from any stuff or even any experiences that I could buy with the same money well the fabulous thing is is you inspired somebody else to start doing it too and didn't even know it I think it was it was her email that you

know really got the word out I wasn't I was tight-lipped I know no one knew

um unless some of the recipients that I gave um had said something to somebody else but um then you know when his email went out that was really um what got it going I think that's so perfect that's awesome well done well done great story so the original uh

secret santa if there is one is a guy named Larry Stewart from Kansas City and um we ended up connecting with him

having him on the show several times developed a friendship with him he's passed away a cancer since but Larry was quite an interesting bird he um was down

on his luck decades ago uh didn't have

any money was hungry pulled his pickup into a diner in Mississippi a little meet and three Diner went in went up to the counter and

sat down and ate and uh with the idea that when he finished he was just going to act like he forgot his wallet and just try to talk his because he had to have food he was hungry and uh you start talking to the the cook behind the counter who turned out to be the owner of the diner we found out later in the story um and the guy realized that he was broke and kind of was running a scam and

uh he walked around behind him and

reached down on the floor and said uh hey I think you dropped this and handed him a 20 bill so he was able to pay for he gave him the money in other words he was able to pay for his dinner Larry never forgot that he later goes on to be he got in the cable TV business and goes on to become a multi-millionaire and um started a tradition of secret Santa

and nobody knew who he was and he would go to areas of the country where something had happened he was in New Orleans after Katrina he was in uh after

a shooting in around Columbine he was there after that he was in New York City after 9-1-1 and he would walk around in a Santa Claus suit with his friends who were policemen would go with him and he would give away tens of thousands of dollars he'd walk up just hand people hundred dollar bills 200 bills 300 bills for one and he would walk around all day long just on

the street and just randomly coming up to people and just going ho ho ho and who are you and Jesus Loves You Jesus loves you and he had and he handed out over his life he ended up millions of dollars wow a secret Santa and so when he got sick he created the secret santa kit to

franchise it so that other people could do it and you could go to his I don't even know if the website's still up he died several years ago but the website was like secret santa.com or something and you could go there and get you know learn how to be him because finally the

no one knew who it was it was a big mystery all the media was trying to track him down trying to figure out what it was and he kept it a secret for many years Kansas City Star finally in his own Hometown tracked him down figured out who it was and so he came out when he got sick he came out and told everybody who he was

and started telling his whole story and we had him on the air and uh he was just a piece of work he was a lot of fun but he would dress up as Santa Claus and go into the areas of town where people were struggling uh or go to towns where something had happened and they just needed encouragement and it wasn't like five dollars I mean he's giving away hundreds hundreds of dollars

and hundred dollar bills and tens of thousands of dollars on a given trip in a given day it was very cool he was a great secret Santa like Harmony Harmony is a great secret Santa I know well done Harmony and you know the weird thing is is that just like uh Larry Stewart's Legacy lives on and people are now doing Secret Santas all over in his memory

and the harmony wasn't tracking on him I'm sure she just had her own idea there but but if you're tracking that whole idea they don't know who he is you never know what you inspire how many of those uh Gen 2

gen 3 generation three secret Santas are popping up all over uh inspired by you and what you and I would say I have enough hope and Humanity that you know if someone has given a gift like that that

somewhere in their life they will give

as well right like it's like when you are given to you can't help but then to pass that on right it may look different than the original gift given to you but that's where the generosity kind of butter reflect Butterfly Effect can happen and it may not happen every single time but I I have enough faith in humanity that I'm like I think it does like when something is given to you in a Act of generosity your life is

shifted and it changes and then you in turn want to be able to give to so I love the the passing on it's inspiring

this thing called generosity this is the Ramsey Show [Music]

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personality number one best-selling author my daughter is my co-host today this is our annual giving show here on the Ramsey show we like to inspire generosity and particularly here at Christmas time Merry Christmas to you America we want you to be givers we want you to enjoy money and the greatest joy you'll ever get with it is the joy of generosity one of the ways we also celebrate this uh day of giving on the

show is we get some of the folks that work at Ramsey one of the 1100 team members to come in and tell their giving or receiving story and uh Sarah is with

us on the debt free stage to tell her story hey Sarah tell us your giving story all right so about a year ago and

just in the past few years my grandmother has been such an incredible blessing to my family and myself towards the end of last year in August my grandfather unfortunately passed away due to covid but around the same time my grandmother had made the decision to sell her her home and move in with my parents so while this while this was all happening I was still living at home

and as a family we were like you know what we're going to go through FPU so we did and every single video that we watched because it was a remote class my grandmother was just sitting on the couch quietly just listening and absorbing all the information and I really believe that something just changed in her heart that kind of 10xed her generosity and she was already an incredibly generous person

I mean she'd be the first one to pay for your food every time I went out she'd be like oh and can I slip a few dollars your way for coffee just the sweetest little person a you know religious giver and

she also didn't just give her time but she or give her money but she also gave her time and part of the ways that she did that was every single week for as long as I can remember she would spend a ton of time making just a ton of food for her local church youth group and

every single year she also hosts our Thanksgiving fam family so our Thanksgiving piece so she would spend days on end cooking she would invite her family and not just her family but the entire church congregation oh my God so it was a whole feast and she'd spent days preparing this and she was older in age so she had a weaker heart and she couldn't even like just cook

it all at once she literally had to break it apart that far just to do this wow so it was just an incredible just inspiring woman that she did all of this and through this time uh towards the beginning of this year unfortunately her health did start declining but she wanted to make sure that her daughter's family my mom was well taken care of so as she was

learning all these principles near teaching she had made the decision to pay off her vehicle and a few days later she told my mom you know what I want you to put this in your name because she knew that it would be her vehicle when she passed and she didn't want my mom to have that burden of a car payment and that just helped so much and on top of that my grandmother was my biggest cheerleader in my biggest prayer Warrior as

I had made the decision to move from South Florida to Tennessee to pursue my dream job here at Ramsey's Solutions oh fun yeah we she would pray with me before and after every single interview on top of that she also helped fund one of my grad school tuition semesters and that just helped incredibly as someone who was on baby step three and a few months after that

she actually gave me five thousand dollars towards purchasing my first car wow as I moved up here uh I needed a reliable vehicle to get around and I actually moved up here without the job using the proximity principle to get the job and I couldn't have done this like on my

own but with her support I was able to get my Dave Carr I got my dream job here

and just last weekend I walked for my graduation for my Master's Degree all debt free at 21. oh my gosh so I'm super

grateful for the impact that she's had me on that way in that way but it gets

even better than that and as she was continuing through financial peace towards the end you know we have that generosity video and she actually asked

my mom one day if she would drive her to the bank now my mom had no idea what this like why she wanted to go go to the bank she thought oh maybe she wants to open an account an account but on the drive over she actually revealed that she wanted to pay off my parents house whoa completely like two hundred thousand dollars it was insane and

there was nothing stopping her from doing this wow so she went ahead and she paid off my parents house and without that mortgage payment such a huge weight was just lifted off my parents shoulders and my family and I are just so incredibly grateful for the blessing of that from

her and just her lasting Legacy of generosity and as I've moved up here now uh there's

a weekend since I knew that her health was kind of declining that I had decided to go back and visit her in South Florida and I flew in really early I think like 6 a.m that day and I got to the home and I was sitting at our bedside holding her hand my mother was on the other side also holding her hand and I got the privilege to spend

the last 20 minutes of her life by her side and just the lasting impact of generosity I hope that I can carry that on Wow and this place helps me do exactly that so I really am so grateful to be a part of this Crusade wow you're incredible what a great story oh I love

your granny she's awesome yes how old

was she when she passed she was 76.

stuff all right Sarah tell everybody what you do here and how long you've been on the team I am an email marketer with every dollar and I've been here about eight months and you said you're 21. yes and you just got your Masters and what in strategic Communications and Leadership wow very cool well you're a

great team member and that was a wonderful generosity story very very well grandmother I love it thanks for sharing it Sarah thank you for having me good stuff generous people make us smile generous people make our eyes leak I was crying on that one that one got me that was good right there powerful yeah yeah pop a day wiping wiping my tears away yeah that was good so good stuff ugh

well the granny kicking the grandmother kicking in and just going boom I'm gonna do this and boom I'm gonna do that yeah boom I'm gonna do that and the other thing that just occurs you know as I'm sitting there we've got so many Millennials and gen xers on this team and they get such a bad rap of as uh

not having hustle not having grind not

having that and uh like so many stereotypes they're just inaccurate um there's certainly a segment of gen Z and certainly a segment of millennial that's awful and a segment of the Boomers and a segment exactly there's no question and but I got to tell you we work up close and personal with a bunch of gen Z's that are like her that that lady right there is brilliant beautiful 21. great she's got her you know she's articulate uh just finishes her master's degree I mean uh and and is a you know proud member of

this Crusade and so on so you know they're out there they're out there and uh that you know when you get to meet people like Sarah uh you know that we're gonna be okay the Gen Z is you know there's enough of her enough those like her engines that's right yeah good stuff

hey this is our giving theme hour thank

you for our theme show today thank you for being with us on this it's absolutely incredible to share these stories if you've got a great giving story jump in and we'll uh try to get you on the phone numbers triple eight eight two five five two two five live

how our lives have changed Trudy as in the baby steps Community Facebook group how our lives have changed since uh finding the Ramsey Financial Peace University at our church six years ago before FPU it would be weeks before Christmas we'd be scrambling to find money to pay for gifts make payments on credit cards today my husband called to tell me it's giving Tuesday and we still have a sizable amount of money in our charity account

I stopped decorating the house and started a poll in our town for people's favorite Charities this is the most fun you can have with money before

dinner tonight we are delivering checks oh there we go all right good stuff that's the way it's done intentional giving intentional generosity this is

the Ramsey Show

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our scripture of the day second Corinthians 9 6-7 the point is this

whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly and whoever sows bountifully will also reap bountifully each one must give as he has decided in

his heart not reluctantly or under compulsion for God loves a cheerful

Giver Ralph Waldo Emerson said you cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know

how soon it will be too late oh that's a

good one yeah you know he he might have a future in that writing stuff called Emerson guy you never know this is a giving show for the Ramsay show we do it once a year we should do it more but we're here celebrating the power of generosity Grace is in Tyler

Texas Merry Christmas Grace tell us your

giving story Merry Christmas you guys

it's an honor to come on air today to share my story well my story um was back in 2020 during the height of all of the covet shutdowns in the world spinning it felt like my husband and I

were both fortunate enough to keep working and keep our jobs and actually have overtime opportunity as well as we were doing really good financially during that time when we know a lot of people weren't so when those rounds of stimulus checks started coming in from the government my husband and I both agreed that we wanted to use those checks to bless somebody who was who was struggling during that time

you know we were praying about it like Lord lead us to how you would have us use this money and since there was so many any needs we didn't know you know which need to meet there were so many and the Lord put on my heart to just reach out to a friend of mine who the year prior had moved to

Uganda with her family to oversee and

operate a a children's home there it's

basically like a foster home for babies newborn through age five who either don't have a family or for one reason or another aren't able to be cared for by their families and they take care of these babies and love on them and provide for them and care for them until they're either reunited with their family or are placed with some kind of permanent you know placement or in some

cases domestic adoption and when I reached out to my friend I found out that they had been really hurting because of all of the lockdowns there in Uganda the lockdowns were extremely strict they it was really difficult for

them to be able to leave their facility they had strong regular relations on we're regarding that and even when they were able to leave it's not like all of the markets were open and bustling and so they were running quickly out of

supplies for their Clinic medications equipment as well as clothes for those

grooming babies since babies grow like weeds and they needed to close in the next sizes up and were not able to get them so I asked my friends for a list of

everything they needed for their clinic in terms of clothes for the office everything and she sent that over to me and my husband and I went to Walmart and completely cleared the list and packed up five very large boxes and expressed

shipped them internationally to Uganda for them wow that's fun Grace that's

amazing that is great when they got those boxes they must have thought Santa had shown up for sure yes it was so sweet my friend when the

first boxes started to arrive she opened it and with some of the older babies you know the toddler age um sent me a picture with some of those babies holding some of the the new clothes and items from the boxes and that just it made me cry just from the

joy that I was feeling that I got to be that we got to be a blessing for them you know because we you know we were doing fine financially we didn't need that money and to be able to bless them in that way was just so incredible fun I've had shopping ever amen that is the most fun ever oh Grace that's amazing well done Grace very well done well played

I like it Ian is with us in Milwaukee Merry Christmas Ian Merry Christmas guys I haven't slept because I've been so excited to be on this show wow I'm sorry we didn't mean to have that effect how can we help tell us about it tell us your giving story um so I am I'm currently 37 uh when I

was 35 I had been a police officer uh

for 13 years and um I just recently been promoted to Sergeant and up until that time I had never had

any inkling of heavy mental health issues I extremely healthy I've done everything I ever wanted to do at the department and all of a sudden something just clicked and I was completely debilitated

by a form of OCD where you think you're

going to or you think you did

um harm your kids and my little girls um were two and five at the time and I

love being a girl dad um and I was at work and I'm constantly around all these bad people and I'm like oh my gosh that's me I did something I heard that when I was changing their diapers and my doctor's like no Ian you have OCD and you have it so bad you need

to contact Rogers behavioral health because they're I mean the best in the business so I I call them and they're like we need to get you in our residential program now you are you know you are one of the most severe cases we've seen and so I'm like all right let's do what I called my insurance and they said no we're we're not covering it because it's not worded and patient even though that's what it was and so I'm thinking my gosh we have we

were in baby steps we still are four five and six and I said we can cover this but what happens if my treatment runs past 12 16 weeks and the department

says you're not fit for Duty we're gonna leave I mean I was just so scared because that had been my life and their

Foundation says look we will cover 100

your stay and impatient wow and we will

make sure you you get treated and the the mental health organizations Foundation or the Departments Foundation no the Mental Health Organization oh wow 100 wow and when when I came out and did like their their Partial Program and like daily therapy um we cash flowed that without touching our emergency fund wow um and I did the

disability process for retirement all by myself um and I was able to retire full pension

um and I I could not thank them enough because they they really did save my life 100 in

my family's life and um you know now I get to be a girl dad I get to to talk about this I actually just wrote an article I talked about this at churches and um leadership

conferences and schools and

um you know you guys are my inspiration to do that and that's what I get to do now so well very well done sounds like you're doing good are you I'm doing good um and you know actually I there's a couple of people at your organization Tristan Dawn and Aisha they're listening today and actually just filled out an application for one of the positions with you guys to to give

it a shot and maybe share my talents with you guys wow very cool Ian very cool that's a powerful story though and yeah the generosity that piece is what a burden

that's lifted off you know when you don't have to to pay for something like that I mean that's that's absolutely incredible and you know there's there's things that are definable and you can put your finger on mental health things often aren't as easy to Define I mean if

you need uh heart surgery that's a very definable objective thing if you've got

uh that form in his case a form of OCD

that's a little tougher to uh diagnose

and to Define that goes oh there's an end to this treatment yeah you know and those people stepped up and as he said literally saved his life that's pretty incredible very cool and that's the beauty of having around Health Care Mental Health or a physical care either one having foundations and things that support and move that it's absolutely vital well guys that's a great giving show you folks out

there did it again you inspired each other you inspired America by calling in and giving your great stories Rachel this whole generosity thing is a big deal well it is and it's a huge piece of of why we do what we do here every day getting people in a place where they can be freed up where their money doesn't control them so that they can truly live

and give like no one else and this is that peace that we get to celebrate today so thank you guys so much for calling in great job Austin Zach Ben

James Andrew in the booth the booth

dudes they make the show happen that puts this hour in the boot in the shin oh whatever we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace Christ Jesus foreign

co-host on the Ramsay show if you want to do your debt free stream live on the show visit ramseysolutions.com set free

screen we'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story that's ramsesolutions.com debt free screen [Music]

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## 226. The Ramsey Show Live from Chicago


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Heat [Music]

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up

here.

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[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network, live in the den in Chicago,

this is the Ramsay Show.

Wow. >> Wow. How about this?

>> So good to be here, you guys. This is amazing. >> So, first of all, we're super super glad that you all are here. We're going to have a fun time tonight. Yes.

>> Yeah. I'm in Chicago. I got to have some deep dish. Whether >> Ken, we got we got a special

for you. >> What do we got? >> Tavern or is it actual deep dish?

>> Well, now this is Louise here.

>> All right.

>> Shout out. Yeah. Don't have to lose.

>> Would you like a slice? K. >> I'm going to get a slice. >> All right. Rachel, would you like a slice? >> I mean, sure. If we're all here, ladies, >> I'm going to be a gentleman. And uh, >> you want to give that to Rachel? Pass it down. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let me have one. Let me have one. >> Too much. >> I had a gluten-free one downstairs. Don't worry. It was delicious. >> Trust me, George already had a shot.

>> You had a gluten-free one? >> Yeah. They crush it. >> Special. >> Fun fact, I once ordered 67

>> deep dish pizzas from Lumaladis to Financial Peace Plaza. headquarters on Ice. Did you really? >> Yeah.

>> Too good. >> Okay. You know, we're here to do a show >> apparently and we are here to have some fun and we're going to answer some questions. So, let's get to our first live question.

Uh let's bring our our guest up here. Tell us your name and where you are from. There she is, I believe. Or they Oh, is this a couple question?

>> Yes. We love We don't get this on the show. >> Beware, we don't get to do this on the show. All right.

Tell us your names and where you're from and get to your question.

>> I'm Arnold. >> We're from Portage, Indiana. Our question is, "My mom occasionally asked us to borrow money even though her household income is higher than ours.

So, what are some tips or help to help her budget?" >> Oh, man.

>> She's not asking for budgeting help, is she? She's asking for money.

>> Okay. I think I think this is one of the hardest lessons to learn in life. And I think it took me thousands of dollars of therapy literally for this to like settle in and realize you can't change people. As much as you guys want her to do X, Y, and Z, as much as you want her to budget, live on less than she makes, all the things, unless she wants it, it's not going to happen.

So, it's either in my head a pretty strong boundary of a conversation.

income right now that has to go to this.

We're not going to be able to help you in the future as of now or forever, whatever you want to say, right? Um, and or hey, mom, would you be curious to learn or probably not to learn, it's probably a little patronizing, but like would you like to find a new way to handle your money? Things that have worked for us? If you're curious about that, let me know and you can kind of open the door for her to walk through.

Um, but it's hard and we get this question a lot with families because you're wanting them to not only change,

but now in your case, they're like asking you for money, right? And so there's a boundary that has to >> Rachel's the nicest one of all of us >> and I'll agree. >> And I think Rachel's right, but I think that's step two. Step one is Whose mom is it? >> Mine. >> Mom, no more. You're a grown blank

woman.

This is nuts. And I'm putting a boundary up. This is not happening anymore.

Here's why. You don't have to attack her, but you talk about your reasons and what it's causing for you. And at some point, you're going, by the way, you're getting to that age, and I'm really at that age where you become the parent, and the parent becomes the child. This is a function of life. And I don't know how old she is, but it's headed that direction anyway.

And this is causing strife for you. Yes or no? >> Yeah. >> All right. So, no, mom. Never again. It stops. Never again. I'm putting up a boundary. Then you go to step two. But this is this is not okay. And I know you're smiling about it, but I hope you walk away empowered tonight cuz you got to tell her to to grow. >> I know. Are you guys on the same page with it? Like, are you both annoyed?

Like, yeah. Okay. >> It puts you on. >> It's his mother-in-law. That guy is steaming Willie Beam now.

>> Can fry an egg on each other. >> You can. Well, here's the thing. You can tell her that's maybe also kind is I love you. I'm your daughter. I don't want to become your lender. I care about our relationship too much for it to become a business transaction. And now you don't want to talk to me cuz you know you owe me money. I want to come over for Thanksgiving and give you a hug and sit down and talk about anything else other than the money you owe me.

And that's what really happens on the Ramsay show. can send her calls if things gone arry, but I do think that it starts with you saying no in love and then getting to the root of it if she's willing. And one day she might be. Today might not be that day, but one day when she truly needs help and she sees the way you guys have been living, she's going to say, "Tell me more about how you did it." That's the day you can start to introduce some of our principles and teaching to her.

>> Are you prepared emotionally for her to get really pissed off and cut you off for a season? He's shaking his head. No.

>> Oh, she won't do that. She no cuz I the last time it was like more assertive

like why would I give this to you or if I give this to you when are you going to learn? So a little more mean than I have been. Um but she wouldn't cut me off.

>> Okay. Well that's great news. Have you been giving her money thus far?

>> Yeah. >> How many times? How much total?

>> Oh boy. >> I'd say like twice a year and it can range from a couple hundred to her refrigerator broke. So like a thousand or two. >> And she has she ever paid you back?

She's always paid me back. >> How How What time frame? Is it an agreed upon? >> Last time was the next day, which makes me most angry because you should not be that type with money.

>> Was it like, "Hey, I just need to get to the next paycheck and I'll pay you." >> Tomorrow. Yeah. >> So, you're her payday lender essentially. >> Yeah.

You need to Your wife needs to hear this. This is your moment. You stood up.

What kind of stress is this causing?

>> Step towards the mic. >> Step towards the mic. >> Step towards the light, my friend. >> Man, I'm so Do you want pizza? Do you want the pizza? We'll give you >> Get out. Get out of the situation.

>> Rachel only had two bites. I'll give her her slice if you tell the truth.

>> So you said >> get up on the mic. Get up on the mic.

>> You said what it what kind of stress does it cause? >> What's it doing to you?

>> It it like puts me in the middle because

I want to, you know, we the Bible says we are the lenders, not the borrowers.

So I want to be that, but not every time. And I don't want to be, you know,

the only sole, you know, every time they're coming to us saying, "Hey, we need this." So, it kind of put me puts me in the middle when I'm like, "It's your mom, but we shouldn't be doing this." So, >> yeah, >> it's hard. >> Yeah. >> So, are you prepared tonight, ma'am, to

to draw a line in the sand?

>> Yeah. >> Why are you smiling and laughing so hard? >> Because it's hard to explain because I've tried I've bought her every time.

>> Get up on the mic. We got to be able to hear. >> Oh, sorry. I've already like done all the things. Um I've bought her every dollar. I've tried. We talk about it. He They work together. So like they talk about every single thing she has. They work together. >> You work with your mother-in-law.

>> That's how we met.

>> Oh wow. So we just got tried. Like the

next thing would be like inviting her over secretly and just for nine weeks straight doing financial piece. But >> that's called staging an intervention.

>> I would have snacks. I would have fun stuff. No. Um next. But

a no would be easy. So it's not that.

It's just like >> she told you loud and clear. She doesn't want she doesn't want help in that regard. >> But like I want to help her.

>> That's right. You want her Yeah. her to help herself. >> I'm more of like like step one. Yes.

>> You're an idiot. Like get it together.

>> Um so I'm more like on the how do I help her step. >> Yeah. I first of all I did not say that she's an idiot. >> No, I did. I did.

>> Yeah. And I and I think honestly the the

idiotic behavior is you >> helping her.

>> Yeah. And I'm not calling you an idiot.

>> That's okay. >> All right. The crowd's like, "Ooh, but but I'm saying if I was going to label some really dumb behavior, it's actually you. She's broken. You're not broken." >> Gotcha. >> And uh she's going to have to hit rock bottom financially. I hate to say this

for you to be able to get through to her. >> Yeah. >> So, I do think it's a clear boundary.

Love, I'm gonna be your daughter, not your lender. Son-in-law, this is a weird deal cuz she's like in the cube next to you doing TPS reports. You're going to have to figure this out, too. So, you guys got to come together in very clear boundaries here. And mom needs to get a very clear but kind message. This is over forever.

>> And at that point, you're going to have to move on. It may not be ugly and that

she cut you off, but she's gonna come

back. By the way, I don't think she's going to get this >> stern message the first time.

>> Gotcha. >> So, what are you going to do? You got to prepare for that when she comes back. A second, a third, a fourth, and maybe even a fifth time. >> Gotcha. >> So, you guys are brave. Thanks for standing up and ask this question. Y'all give them some love. So good.

And let me say this too, the borrowing is different than the giving, right? So both need boundaries around it. But but when you are lending money and expecting to be paid back, like that's a no all the way around. Now, if there's a giving element and there's a family member, a friend, whatever, and you as a couple decide that we're in a good place financially, we feel like yes, we can do this.

We want to do this. We feel like they really truly need help.

that's a whole other prerogative. So there is a difference between the giving and the lending. So I would cut the lending off >> hardcore right now today 100% and I and probably the giving I think there's an element of that that's all true in this >> yeah the question asked am I enabling misbehavior or am I helping someone who's hurting right now and there's a big difference and clearly this is a long pattern of misbehavior on on mom's part. >> Yes.

And this is awkward, but I have a very personal experience with this with George years ago when George wasn't making very much money at Ramsay.

had to say no. >> He's got a great head of hair. I thought Ken would know what the best blow dryer is. >> So, we got through it though, didn't we?

>> We did. We salvaged the relationship >> and we're here to tell about it. I must tell you, we've been talking about this segment of the show for a couple of weeks. We're going to do a settle the debate and we've got a brave couple here

uh uh who is going to jump in and uh we

are going to settle the debate. Now, how many of you love Judge Judy? Do we got any Judge Judy fans in here? >> She's great. >> Yeah. Honestly, not as many as I thought. Uh how many of you are familiar with the Supreme Court? Let's hear from you. Are you so familiar?

[Applause] >> Judge Coleman presiding. >> Well, no, it's the three of us. So, we are a mini Supreme Court. Oh, >> on this decision. And so we're going to hear this case. We will ask questions.

You all can applaud, moan, weigh in your

laugh, weigh in with your reaction, and then we shall decide. Are you ready, John? >> All right, young couple. Tell us your names and where you're from.

>> Hi, I'm Jenny. >> And I'm Jake. And uh we are from Valparezo, Indiana. >> Okay. Jenny and Jake, give them some love. This is brave. Thanks.

>> Okay. I don't know who is speaking for you or if you're both speaking, but please give us this argument. What is

happening with you two?

>> Uh, we have the age-old debate. I'm a spender. He's a saver. He thinks I should spend less. I think he should relax and let me spend. And also, he needs to start spending a little bit maybe too. But I think to add some context here, uh we are we are not quite

in step seven. Uh so I think the gazelle

intensity should persist. What step are you on? >> 456.

>> Okay, boy. The crowd's turning on you fast. I know. >> This is not going to go my way. >> These people over here are already ready to throw pizza at you.

>> Okay. What are you wanting to spend on specifically? Is it lifestyle? Is it restaurants? Is it vacation? Is it what?

New car? Like what's the what's the thing you're >> Is it $20,000? Is it $200?

>> That's fair. Uh vacations.

Uh clothes. Just little Amazon. Just

>> cute. >> Cute sweater. Add a cart. Nothing like big. I don't care about cars. I don't care about >> Okay. So, it's like >> Do we have a number? >> An extra like what 400 bucks a month or something? >> Yeah, that's a good number. >> Okay. >> Is that Oh, wait a second. You agreed with too much too quickly. Is that really what you want? An extra 400 bucks?

Like you, by the way, >> she already gets that. I don't know. That's There's no >> Wow, she gets that.

>> I'm gonna ask you because this is a Ram. This is the Ramy show. How is she all make a year? This is >> uh just shy of like 160.

>> Okay. >> Both of you working outside. >> Just me. >> Just careful careful. She's working in the home. >> The way he said that. >> Four kids. I think this >> What are their ages?

>> What are What are their ages?

>> 7, five, three, six months.

>> Oh my gosh. Give her the money.

>> How are you even here tonight?

>> It wasn't easy.

>> God bless your ministry. How much did you Did you pay a babysitter?

>> Oh, her parents. So, >> there we go. This guy's not paying for babysitters.

Knew it. Okay. So, you have a baby step six goal to pay off the house early.

>> Okay. >> I already have that set. That'll be done in five years. >> Good. And in your mind, is that extra $400 that should go to the house versus to her lifestyle? Why not do it faster?

>> Okay, listen. I'm a I'm I'm a tight wad at heart. How many tight wads are out there? >> Thank you for making yourselves known.

Here's the deal. This is where you lost the audience. You said we got to keep up. The gazelle intensity, guys. Gazelle intensity happens in >> one through this cyborg. Once you're through getting out of debt, you got the emergency fund. We move from intensity to intentionality, which means we can let our foot off the gas a little bit.

We can increase the scing fund for vacations and upgrading the car in cash and buying clothes on Amazon if that's what you so choose. So, I think there's a there's going to be a split here. You're on track to do the house. Let's move some funds over to let her enjoy her life while she maniacally is a great

goal. I mean, 5 years gets your house paid off >> cuz how how old are you guys?

>> 35. So, you have a paid off house in at

the age of 40. >> Incredible. Okay.

>> Debtree. >> Debtree completely. >> I have a couple questions here. I'm not ready to decide yet.

>> You said that.

>> I'm locking in my vote, Bob. >> Uh Jake, you said, have you already decided, J? >> Yeah, I'm locking in my vote. >> Okay. Are they doing Jeopardy? I said, Bob, is that price is right? I'm mixing up. >> I don't know. I don't know. I I I need more information. Jake, you said that you you already give her $400 a month.

Is that like just blow money? Yes or no?

I do the >> So, she does the budget. Um, and so the

numbers are all moved to where they need to be moved to. It's We're zero dollar.

So, >> No. No. But you said >> I don't give her the money necessarily, right? It's like weird. >> But she gets $400 for whatever Jenny

wants. >> Sure. I I would say it probably averages out to that. >> Jenny, on the mic, please. Do you concur

with this information that you get roundabout 400 bucks a month to do whatever Jenny wants with?

>> Yeah, I mean I make the budget. He doesn't even want to look at it and I do all of it. I'm the spender, but I'm also the nerd. >> Boy, you are >> I love a budget. I love a budget.

>> I get it. Okay, so here's the deal. So, you're asking for we're settling debate.

Should you get more spending money? And Rachel asked you >> and he can spend a little. He needs to spend. >> Well, he but he he needs to, but he won't. Okay. That guy is not He squeaks

when he walks.

All right. [Applause] I'm just telling you. Yeah. And listen,

there's no problem with that, brother. I'm just calling balls and strikes. All right. Jenny, how much more money are

you saying you would like to allocate to the Jenny have a fun day because she has four kids fund?

>> I'm actually happy with the spending. I just want it to be like not him like having to side. >> It's the purchasing.

It's the side eye like amount is fine.

It's every time an Amazon package.

>> Why are you getting guac with that?

>> No.

>> Now Jake has something to say. Jake's got something to say. Go ahead.

>> Now I'm Now I'm just being liable. This is uh >> Are you telling me that's fake news?

You've never said anything like that. Absolutely fake news. >> Have you done Have you done a side eye when she spends the $400?

>> Well, yeah. when there's package after package after package. >> Is it in the $400? >> I'm thinking I have no idea. I I have no idea how much. >> You know why you don't know? Cuz you're not in the budget, >> right? >> So, you're not you have no skin in a game, but you're Mr. Opinion.

>> Well, >> I know. It's why I'm the judge. I'm on fire, people. >> I just think if if I were also a spender, we'd be paying off our mortgage in 8 n 10 years from now as opposed to the five. So, no, you can't. Someone has to write it in.

>> I'm I am now ready to rule. Any other questions? >> I just want to I'm trying to play devil's advocate uh advocate here. Who breaks down the boxes

>> every time?

>> It's not even an attempt. >> Are they thrown out in the garage?

>> No. Right. >> Just right in the walkway. The worst possible spot you can >> Can I tell you I think that's the root cause of the rift in your relationship is it's a part-time job for me breaking down Amazon boxes in my house. And I'm tired of it. Of course, that's very precise. >> If you bought it, you break it down.

>> Jenny, >> hey, I I have a question. Okay. No, I don't agree with that. But >> of course you don't. >> Spoken to someone who's never broken down a box in her life. >> She's never had a splinter. She doesn't even know what it is.

>> Look at these nails. Look at these things. That's big money right there.

You can't hide money.

>> How did you grow up with money?

>> Oh, I can tell you. Uh, yes. Exactly

like Ken's thinking.

>> Go ahead, tell us. >> Yeah, tell us. >> Okay. Uh, you know, we had what we

needed, but nothing more really.

>> Was it stress? Was there like a level of stress with it? Okay. So, I think the real issue, honestly, I think understanding what is going on.

Like we had a couple um some friends over and they were he was literally talking about how he got frustrated that she buys the nicer milk and she's like, I just don't get it.

everything going to be okay right it's kind of these deeper questions that almost get triggered that you may not even realize and then for you feel shame

and like you feel bad and guilty with doing the plan the plan that we've planned out and you're making me feel this way and so I don't feel like I have permission to enjoy the income of our household because I'm getting judged with every little purchase and that's probably hurtful, right? So, so deep down in it, I think seeing each other two or three layers down of what's what's really really really going on under that, but I do want you more involved with budget because I do think if you see it's within a controlled element, she's not out of control, right?

You're not you guys aren't secretly deeply in debt and she's not spending thousands and thousands of dollars.

There's there's something else going on.

And so I for you guys in your marriage, I think that yeah, to kind of figure out, okay, what's really what's really happening, but I've got my vote locked in. >> Well, we'll start with you, madam.

>> I'm siding with you, lady. What's your name again? Jenny. >> Jenny. I was right there. Sorry, Jenny.

I said, lady. >> You're siding with Jenny. >> I'm siding with Jenny. I think that it's totally appropriate.

It does not feel out of bounds. It does. It's not a crazy percentage of your income. >> It's a controlled matter.

You're doing the budget. You're tracking in the Every Dollar app. I mean, you know what's going on. >> You have the freedom to spend.

Judge George. I've always wanted to say that. Judge >> feels good. The court has ruled.

I'm going to go with Jenny. Caveat. Jake must look at the budget and must find a hobby and must force a line item in budget to spend money.

Is that fair? And in response, Jenny must break down boxes for one month.

>> And that's fair. I'm fair.

>> I'm tough, but I'm fair.

That's a good ruling. >> I I have to concur with my fellow judges. Uh Jake, to you, number one, you've been a good sport. Number two, you're terrified.

>> I'm No, I'm serious. I'm looking at a young man who's been terrified his whole adult life because of what he grew up with, money. So, I'm going to side with

Jenny, but I'm going to tell you to over

the next 30 days force yourself to have

some conversations with people you trust, you feel very safe with, including Jenny, about your real fears of money. I mean, real tangible fears.

At this point in your life, a young man who's doing a great job providing for his wife and those little kids, you're terrified. And the thing that's going to help you is to confess what that fear is. Number one. Number two, you need to confess to her that you have not trusted her like you need to trust her. You you've stayed out of the budget, so the trust is there to a degree, but the side eye and the bad attitude about the packages and all the things is a manifestation of the fact that you don't

like the way that she spins. And so, we've got to get on the same page. And as a guy who's 51, three kids that are

teenagers, one's here in college in Chicago, and it goes like that. I told Rachel today, "The days are long, but the years are short." And I'm going to tell you something. If you're not careful, you're going to be fearful your

entire kids' lives, and they're going to adopt that same view. As opposed to you are not promised tomorrow, you better have some fun and make some freaking memories with Jenny and those babies.

That's my ruling. Thank you guys.

Thank you guys so much. >> That was so good. That's a lot of bravery right there. I I want to do more of that. >> Great job.

>> What? >> Pastor Ken, >> that was good. >> Pastor Ken, rebuking the fear.

>> I'm telling that's what it is. You call it out. Quick shout out to Rachel. You really helped me begin to see this on the show when you wrote your book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. And I give that book away all the time on the show. You hear me do it to couples >> cuz that's the deal. That happening.

>> That entire book would save marriages from financial ruin. So, if you know a couple that struggle with money, get Rachel's book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and gift it to them. It really does what we just did there. So, and I want to say thanks to them. That was fun. All right, let's get to our next question. Who do we got next? This is fun. Let's give them some love when they come up to the mic. There we go.

>> Yeah.

Tell us tell us your name and where you're from. >> My name is Lynette. I'm from a little town south of here called Odell. Um, my question is about the average person who's trying to make ends meet.

Um, my husband and I are starting a financial class at our church next week. I am also the outreach director at our church. So, I'm in our community. I'm seeing the needs.

I run our church's food pantry and people just aren't making it.

Woo. Give us a little bit more of a

economic picture in that area. How much

of this We know a lot of this is debt.

We get that. But how much of this is a limited economy uh for people to move up? Is it a low wage area is what I'm getting at. >> Yes. Um I actually know the stats on that. Uh I think we're at 15% poverty level and below. And then I'm not sure if you're familiar with the term Alice, but it's income limited asset cons. No,

I'm sorry. Asset limited income constrained meaning they have no assets and also the ability to make income is is constrained. >> Is that government housing? >> Uh we have some Yes. Um we in addition

to that we're just losing government funding. So we lost our rural transit in our area for low-income people. It's just kind of sad. >> Yeah. >> That's tough. >> Kind of sad for us. Not us, >> but our community, >> but your community. That's right. Yes.

Absolutely. Well, yeah. I kind of partial the two conversations. I do think there's a real poverty conversation that they're in very a very very very difficult situation and then you have another group that's just living the middle class lifestyle in general and where their expectations are for lifestyle. So, I would probably tackle those two different things probably differently probably what I would say. Um, but I would speak probably more to the to the middle class situation that what our expectations are in life is so much higher than it was in

the 80s, right? Like you look at square footage of home, you look at material of what our kitchens are made of. I mean, whatever the thing is, um, what we expect in life today is just so much greater and it's not a reality, right?

And so for for people just to to get what they want with the income that they have. Um, and that's what we tackle I feel like a lot on the Ramsay show.

There's a lot of that because it's a lot of credit card debt and car loans. It's all the consumer side. Um, but for your

situation specifically, I mean that poverty that's that's a much harder bigger conversation. Um, and can you talk a lot about work finding I mean the income is the that's that's the answer >> is getting the income up and so how to do that and what that looks like.

>> It's a lot there's a lot of facets to that but finding >> Yeah. not a I can't give a really succinct strategy because the reality is this is a macroeconomic problem in your area.

>> It feels micro because it's local but it's macro and u you know

>> George can speak to you know how they can cut cut to the bone but at the end of the day if they're limited income their quality of life is not going to be very very good. So now, you know, I hate

to say this, but if you want to help those people, you help them find a path to a better job, and that means a pathway out of that community, >> right? Our largest community is about 30 minutes away, um, 30 miles away. So that's hard for many of them. They don't have reliable transportation, which you can imagine with no income.

>> So, but I agree with you. I mean, yes, we need to find something for for somewhere for them to work to get them ahead, but that's it's hard where we live. >> Well, and let me encourage you, the messaging for you needs to be this is going to be a long path. It's a little bit of Dave Ramsey truth.

very long time, do some things that are very difficult in your life to then be able to essentially afford a car that could get you 30 minutes away. Or to say we're going to I mean, the pioneers did

it with nothing.

>> A covered wagon mentality, right?

>> Say we're going to take everything we own and we're going to make a better life. Now that is a that is a message of empowerment >> and you don't get that in politics because what you get is policy and all the arguing but in all reality in your situation it is an economically depressed area and there is no simple solution.

Cuz by the way, that's going to happen anyway. And I'd rather it happen on the backs of capitalism and rugged American individualism than to just watch the thing die slowly and watch them die on government benefits. That's not a good way out, right? So, you know, they don't have much of a choice. But I want to bring George in because I think he's got great insight here on there is a way to

teach and to promote living on very

little. >> Yeah. >> Is it your book, George? >> No, I'm not going to just read my book.

Um I'm happy to to gift that to you guys and send you a box to to all the folks out there. I I think the true answer is, as Dave would say, we don't sell magic wands. You're going to have to choose your heart. Heart is staying where we are.

Hard is moving. I mean, I've come from a family of immigrants.

So, what you can do is on a case- by case basis, sit down with everybody and have them make an every dollar budget and go, "Okay, what is the root of the problem?" Because at least then we have clarity. If it's an income problem, great. We know we need to go make more.

If it's a debt problem, we know, hey, we got to get rid of these payments. we're going to debt snowball this by making more, selling stuff, side hustles, whatever they can do. And the budget will give them at least a financial reality check of them just looking in the mirror instead of looking to all the things they can't control out there, which just creates a new cycle of cynicism and hopelessness.

>> And so that person, the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution. And so your job, the best you can do is help them believe that.

>> I'll try. >> Thank you for what you do. It's a very noble. >> Give her some love. Wow.

I I'm so inspired by Lynette that that's

amazing because I'm going to tell you something that is >> really difficult work. It is difficult work to be a light in a community like that where there is no light. And so you're you're a great American. Is that your husband with you?

>> Okay. What's his name? >> Colin. >> Colin.

Okay. Well, I just wanted to shout you guys out. you really represent the best of us and uh any way we can support you uh just let our team know tonight we want to make sure we get as much resources as we can to you.

>> James uh James, our fearless leader uh

is here tonight. >> James, >> how many of you ever laid eyes on James Childs? >> Producer James, >> give James Child some love.

This is our guy.

>> You hear us talk about him and he keeps us I mean, God bless this guy to keep us all on the rails, including Dave. I mean, and is he isn't he handsome? Look how ruggedly handsome he is. >> A lot of personalities, literally. >> A lot of personalities. So, number one, we wanted you to meet James. James is phenomenal. James, tell everybody real quick how long you've been producer of the Ramsay Show. >> 14 years. >> 14 years.

So, great.

So, I'm going to give it to James because we've got a fun little segment here. James, tell us what we're doing. >> Well, before that, I just want to say this is so much fun because we in the booth all have these same reactions and it's fun getting to hear it live. Like when we react to these calls and now we can kind of hear it in the room.

So, this is a blast. And Jake, we the crew agreed. We're going to take you wherever you are.

>> and Jake's paying.

>> That's right. Yeah. We're not paying.

>> All right. So, here's the deal. We have a fishbowl here. So, most of the questions tonight are obviously from the audience about their life situations, but we also got a bunch of fun questions that are for you guys here on the stage.

So, these questions are meant to be kind of quick, a little bit rapid fire, uh, a little bit insight into your life and your personality. So, we've probably got about 15 in here. So, I'd say let's hit like half of them and then we'll come back again and do a little bit later. >> So, speed round, guys. So, quick answers. >> You don't need to tell us, Ken. Be difficult, huh?

>> Hey, listen. >> Ken loves his words. >> Dropping wisdom. All right.

Mr. Sound bite over there with your koi hair.

>> Okay, here we go. I'll read the first one. >> You need your readers? >> I might. Are you the free spirit or the nerd in your marriage and give an example? All right, >> that's for all of us. I'm the I'm the free spirit. Um I just really love to buy clothes and stuff.

>> Uh we're responsible about it, you know, but like >> spender for spirit. I'm very spontaneous and I will just forever be a free spirit. You know, I do the budget but it's exhausting. I sometimes need to go buy something after we do the budget

>> just to enjoy it >> just to regulate my nervous system.

>> Purchase. Yeah. Free spirit for sure. Uh

I think the best example is Winston. We have like we have the every dollar budget and I'm great with that and I love it. I'm like you. I'm a spender but I do like checking it. I feel in control. It feels great. And Winston has, I think maybe three, four, maybe

even five Excel documents on his computer mapping out different things.

And he changes the code in the Excel cell thing and it changes all Oh, I I

can't I can't >> All you people are repressed. I'm just going to tell you, you're repressed. >> Oh my gosh. Okay, got you guys.

>> No shock to anybody. I am the nerd. I have multi I have my every dollar budget. I have like outside spreadsheets that I'm working on. I get the bank transactions to my text messages and I'll text my wife like, "Hey, was this you or fraud?" Cuz I almost think it like if it was fraud, they would spend less than my wife does.

And then she goes, "Guys, you've heard this one. I'm going to return most of it." You can't even argue with that. You

can't argue with that. So, there you go.

I am the nerd proudly.

>> Love that. Okay. Uh, next question.

What's the best gift you've ever received or the best you've given? So,

you can either go give or receive. Uh, I'll go receive. Um,

I got a giant Blackstone griddle. I

mean, it's like it's like my own little habachi table. You know what I'm talking about? My wife got that for me for a Father's Day. And it's just I love cooking for the family. I love cooking for all of our We We were a house where all of our kids' friends were over all the time. So, I got so much joy out of that. And uh I'm going to say the Blackstone griddle because you can cook anything on it. burgers, fried rice, vegetables, you name it.

>> That's good. >> What do you got? >> Winston got me a nice ring when our middle daughter was born and that was a really special ring. But I'm not a creative person.

Like I don't I'm not good at creating anything. Not don't ask me to do anything creative. But I'm thinking of the lake house. And I think one of the most creative gifts I did was to mom and dad or no, it was to dad for Father's Day about 5 years ago for the lakehouse.

Maybe it's on my mind. And it's a sign. I got it off Etsy. a sign and there's an arrow that point I didn't make it.

messy, but it's a sign and one arrow points and it says Papa Dave's dock that way. The one below is the arrow back to the house. It says Mimi's kitchen and they have a fence for all the dogs and the other arrow goes the other way to the dog park. Like it's like a little like arrow thing for the lakehouse.

Ain't that creative? >> That's really cute. >> I mean, somebody was creative. You clearly weren't.

>> I came up with what was on the side. >> I think it was a lovely gift.

>> George, one last >> I'll give you a recent one. Uh, so I have a one-mon-old son now. It's our second. Thank you.

Thank you. And, uh, I didn't know about this, but there's a new thing called a push present where the woman demands a

gift understandably for carrying a human

being for 9 months and pushing it out.

Hence the word push present. And so I thought, you know, we have a lot of stuff. I'm done with stuff. Let's do an experience. And so I got my wife tickets to Backstreet Boys at the Sphere in Vegas in January. And I'm very proud of

myself, Ken, cuz boy did that hurt.

Oh, I was like, this does this count as your birthday and Christmas and our anniversary next year? She's like, no, that was one one gift. >> One gift. Such a great husband.

>> You know who needs to have drinks with you? Jake. >> Yeah, >> we already talked. We're going to compare spreadsheets later.

>> Oh man, I got to tell you, uh, the Backstreet Boys, huh? >> Yeah, it's back. It is one of the best concert. >> It changed her life, >> y'all.

With the sphere, I had chills. I was so em I almost cried. I was so emotional.

>> Was it a certain song that pulls that string? >> You know what? But what I learned, I won't go on my whole tangent. I learned this. Actually, someone on Instagram sent me this article and I was like, "Yes, that's what I'm talking about." When you your music between the ages of 10 and 16 of why your when your brain is like forming like certain parts of your brain, music specifically during that age sits in a part of your brain that is different than any other time in life.

So, when that gets triggered, it's a level of nostalgia that gives you like literal like something chemically happens to your body. And that was happening to me at the sphere.

>> It's science, Ken. How can you argue that? Well, this explains a lot. This is why to this day if I hear Hold On by

Wilson Phillips, I really enjoy it and I

feel a little guilty about it. Like I got to turn my man card in. But now I get it. >> Yeah. For me it's Living Levita Loca. So you can have your man card back, >> right? >> Oh, Ricky Martin. It's >> a good one. >> You got to love. And by the way, I'm not going. She's going with a friend.

>> Good. As you should. >> I don't want to be a part of that. I got sensory issues. I >> see the girls. women screaming in my ear for 3 hours over men who can't dance anymore. >> Yes, they can. No, no, they can still sing in It's very impressive. It's very impressive. >> It's an animatronic up there. I'm convinced it's AI. >> I'm telling you, the amount of Ben Gay in that green room after the show.

Unbelievable. >> Oh, their dogs are barking back there.

They are. And I just got to say this hot take. >> The dogs are barking. You never heard that? >> You know what that mean? By the way, inside baseball, Rachel knows very little cultural reference phrases at all. Like, my dogs are barking.

>> Who's never Has anyone not >> I'm from Boston. I learned that in the South. >> Okay. >> Yeah. You're raising your hand. What? Did you don't >> Of course you do. >> Has everyone never heard of that? >> This guy's got some dogs that are barking. >> Okay, we got some.

>> All right, we have >> Let's keep the dogs in the house, pal.

All right, let's get this show back on the road. You heard of that one, Rachel?

>> Get the show back on the road.

>> Yeah. Get this train on the tracks.

Uh, perfect. Nailed it. Okay. All right.

Uh, next up, we're going to go to another question. Laura is joining us.

Give Laura some applause as she comes to the mic.

>> Hi, Laura. Tell us where you're from.

>> Uh, Logan Square here in Chicago.

>> Great. >> Yeah. Uh, I am 29, baby step two. Um,

just student loans left, but I'm going I'm a bridesmaid for my friend's black tie wedding here in Chicago.

And so I've already bachelorette and

then went to the bridal shower. Didn't get a gift yet. And then I

very nice rehearsal dinner and then obviously the very nice wedding. What would an appropriate gift be? My boyfriend and I kind of disagree about obviously we kind of each do something since we're both going together for all these events of how much we should each be giving. >> Oh, this is great.

>> Okay. I I'm a little old school wedding

etiquette here. Have you given a gift at all at any point? >> Um, no. Other than I mean other than the uh >> when we travel together, right? Like I think we all split the Airbnb for the >> Sure. Okay. Yeah. But you haven't given a physical gift yet. Okay.

>> I got a quick question for everybody and you Rachel. Why does the boyfriend He's just the boyfriend. Why does he have to buy a wedding gift? Am I Am I too cheap on there? George, you got >> Are you friend? Is he friends with the groom? >> Yes. And that's So, we're going to a wedding actually the weekend before.

That's just for my friend and he's not giving a gift for that one. I'll give one for both of us. >> Okay. I have an idea. >> Oh, I like it. >> I don't really have an idea, but kind of an idea cuz I'm not creative. Go on Etsy. What's like a What's a really

sentimental, really not expensive, but really cool thing that you could do that's like, oh yeah, it's not going to be an obvious like KitchenAid mixer that you know what I mean like that she's going to know the price of it. >> Do you think someone wants that for their I feel like >> No, but between your like your friendship or something like it's a gift to her. >> That's fair. >> Um and it's something there that's not going to cost a lot.

>> Okay. You're all black tying me up. I can't. No. Like like no. Like it's like ask her to name 30 things on the registry. She'll lose track after seven.

I wish I was >> I want to just give money. I don't I don't want to give her stuff. Ideally, I was I thought I should give >> Oh, you're just going to give like a >> I mean, ideally, I wanted to give like 150 each person. >> Oh, I hear you. I hear you.

>> I mean, for like a money Oh, I like this. This is a little more specific. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. I got you.

>> It usually is a phone call, but honestly, you've spent so much already.

I just be like, "Thanks for being my friend and being here for everything. I don't really care." >> So, let me get this straight. You're a bridesmaid. I Okay, call her me stupid.

I thought if you were a bridesmaid, you don't get a gift cuz like you're doing a lot already. You're spending a lot of money to be a bridesmaid.

You agree with this or you still get a gift. Okay. I'm hearing from the uh especially the older ladies in the room saying >> I'm going to go I like your 150. I think 150 150 >> each person.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. Total total my boyfriend feels like prices right now.

>> Oh yeah. This is good. >> I listen I love this. I told the audience to speak up.

I love it. It's my opinion. I'm going 150 as you I'm not speaking on behalf of the boyfriend. Uh but I'm saying to you I think 150 that's nice.

>> That's nice if it's cash. I don't believe you would not. >> Well, it's just I just know the amount of money you've already spent and I mean the way you're talking about it's a very elevated everything's been elevated experiences. So, I can't imagine what you're spending on dresses all.

I mean, you're spending a lot. >> Um >> I'm assuming maybe not.

>> Okay, that's go tot

a gift from my groomsman for my own wedding. Listen, >> you usually give a gift, but I'm saying

>> normalize no gifts if you're in the wedding.

Thank you. >> I know it's etiquette. >> I don't think that's a stupid etiquette.

It's etiquette. >> I went to the bachelor party. I'm taking up all my That's what I'm saying. Get creative with the gift itself. I think I'm going to go more George. I don't think you're being realistic. And I don't have a fundamental problem with either one of your answers. I just don't think it's realistic with people expect things. You yourself just revealed to me another sign of the apocalypse tonight that we have a push gift now.

>> Yeah. >> Push presents. Push presents. push present, whatever. That didn't exist when my wife had a baby. She got flowers

and whatever. I don't know. Too many gifts. So, we live in a society now where everybody expects something. And so, I'm trying to give you practical advice. I would go with a low cash gift or else she's going to be mad that you would you go low cash cuz it's so obvious. Like, that's my thing, right?

>> I thought it was supposed to give money to replace what they're paying on your the plate of food. Yeah.

>> And so I'm getting two dinners, rehearsal and then regular. And they're nice like salmon. >> How do we know she's even paying for this with her own money?

>> Now we're paying the parents for covering the bill. >> No, she and her fiance are paying for it. >> Wow. That's on them. That's on.

Listen, some of my friends are fancier than me. I can't keep up. I cannot keep up with my fancy friends. I guess the easy solution out of my element.

>> Don't invite me to your wedding. How about that?

>> Now that that I concur. I think >> I think $300 isn't going to break you. I think if you decide to do that, it's fine. But I do think this like idea that

we're just going to keep going and going and going and going and going is ridiculous in general, right? And I know you're it's it's a tough position like and we actually did a we did a I think it's smart money happy hour episode about being single friends today. How expensive it is just to be a friend with someone >> and 30th trip and the 40th trip and you better come with me internationally.

they have a lake house. >> Yeah. Yeah, you could. You could.

>> I think that's the play.

>> You need a sponsorship with Etsy by the way. >> And I never go like I'm not I'm not give her some love. Wasn't that good so far?

But can I say >> yes

>> I am not as bougie as you. Even though I'm the truffled mac and cheese up here.

Uh a black tie wedding kind of feels like a dream. I would be that would be so fun to go to a black tie wedding.

>> Only a woman says that >> the people that have to wear the long when you're the bridesmaid but like everyone's just I don't know. It just seems so like >> Yeah. I I think I'd rather get a colonoscopy.

>> I There are a lot of people. Hey, have fun. >> There's a lot of people in this room who get it. Earn your money back, girl. Earn

your money back on that open bar.

>> You know, that's right. Milk that open bar for all it's worth. No guy wants to go to a black tie anything. All right.

There it is. All right. Hey, fun segment coming up. You ready, guys? We're going to call it two truths and a lie. All right. So, let me set this up because you all the audience get to weigh in here. Okay. So all of us have done the Ramsay show for a long time before that uh the Dave Ramsey show. So we've been on and and when you do that many hours

live uh you hear some things, right?

People call in and say some things. And so uh what I'm going to do is I'm going to roll through a list here and uh I'm going to read three statements, okay? Uh

A, B, and C statements and you all are going to guess which one is the lie. You got it? >> And these are actual things that callers have said. Two out of the three are.

>> That's right. Two out of the three.

>> One is a lie. >> One is a lie. >> Two are real calls we took on the show.

One is our call we took. >> We got that. >> I love it. Here we go. A. My husband

thinks the government isn't real and has stopped paying our debts.

>> Hold hold hold. Just Some of you people, that's all you do is listen to the show.

>> You don't get extra credit for that.

>> Yeah. Just calm your jets. You're going to get to vote in full throat in just a second. B, I was scammed out of $100,000

being catfished on a dating website. And C, should I install a pay phone pay

phone booth in my house to get free phone service?

>> Which one is the lie?

>> All right, let's go. A. Who thinks?

>> Who's A? A. >> Who thinks it's A? >> A. Is A the >> Anybody think it's A? >> Okay, not A. >> Yeah, we got one back there. All right. Anybody think it's C?

>> All right. The real answer is B.

>> Um George and I were on together when a lady called in and said, "My husband thinks the government isn't real and has stopped paying all of the taxes, debts, everything." It was a Y'all remember that? It was just >> Oh boy. I never That was true confession here on the live show. >> Hey, keep your men off the internet, ladies.

All right. Just going to say it right now. Uh, I mean, that's a call where George and I couldn't say what we really wanted to say. It was just a train wreck.

>> I told her she's going to go to jail. >> She's going to go to jail if she doesn't >> That's sad. Yeah. >> Yeah, it was really sad. Okay, here we go. >> A, should I pay $5,000 to bail my

boyfriend out of jail? B, should we prioritize a reverse vasectomy?

And C, I'm 14 years old and have $21,000

in debt.

What is it? A. >> Is A the lie?

>> How many think it's B? Should I prioritize a reverse vasectomy?

>> A few people. And then finally, how many of you think it's C? I'm 14 years old and have 21,000 in debt.

Okay, the real answer, the lie is A. Should I pay 5,000? Uh George and I again were on when we took the call about prioritizing a reverse vasectomy.

>> What did we say? I bit my lip

>> cuz I thought it was insane to reverse it in the first place. >> Yeah. Much less pay for >> What was the situation? >> Huh? >> What was the situation? Second marriage.

>> I deemed it was not worthy of a reversal. >> Okay. >> Just Google it, Rachel. Reverse vasectomy on Google. The call will pop up. >> Yeah. And uh and then the uh this call came in. A 14-year-old really did tell Dave once that he had 21,000 in debt.

Okay. Next. Uh, A. My wife maxed out her

credit card on McDonald's.

>> The Diet Cokes are good. >> Yeah. B, my house is haunted by ghosts.

Should I sell it?

>> C. My husband took out a credit card on our 12-year-old.

>> You all think B is the lie?

>> C. >> I can't hear anybody. All right, the lie

is C. My husband took out a credit card on our 12-year-old. Uh, George and I again took this one. >> Oh, y'all have the craziest one. George and I get the good calls. Uh, the my wife maxed out her credit card at McDonald's. That was >> I did the math on air and could not crack it. >> This lady was >> She's was spending like 30 something dollars a day at McDonald's. >> Yeah. A lot of Happy Meals. How do you do that? >> A lot of toys. >> It's crazy.

>> All right. Next. Uh, A. Should I sell my daughter's Taylor Swift tickets to pay off her debt? Easy, easy, easy.

You You folks out there, they don't miss

a beat.

Uh B, I bought an expensive monkey and

then it started attacking my fiance.

And C, I won $1.5 million from a scratch

off my mom got me. Am I obligated to give her some of the winnings?

>> What is the lie? A

>> B. Okay. Well, actually B is the truth that uh Dave took that call in the early years. That is a true story. Bought an expensive monkey and the monkey beat the snot out of his fiance

and he still had to call Dave and talk to him about it. Uh, the actual lie is I won 1.5 million from a scratch off my mom got me and uh Rachel and I took the

infamous Taylor Swift ticket call.

>> Yes. And you uh shocked me on that one.

I remember >> you thought I was going to be a little fuddy. >> They were going to say, "Yeah, sell the tickets, get it to the debt, but you said go to the concert." And I thought, Ken, I am just influenced on you >> because I have a 16-year-old daughter and I put I was like, "This is where you got to live a little bit, you know?" >> That's great. >> Uh, okay. Uh, let's see here. A, this is

the caller speaking. Dave, you're stupid

and arrogant.

>> And that's just what Rachel said.

>> Yeah, >> that's not even >> to the car. >> Never say that. I am respectful.

>> B. Our beef jerky side hustle made our electric bill go up to $400 a month.

>> C. I financed my wife's breast implants

and then she cheated on me with my boss.

Which one is the lie?

>> I'm hearing a lot of bee. The actual lie is B. Our beef jerky side hustle. Dave

took the call for for the guy who

financed his wife's breast implants.

A poor guy. He was a double loser on

that deal.

through a call. Dave couldn't >> Didn't even get to use him. >> Yeah, >> Dave was beside himself losing. He couldn't get through the call.

>> I I I I don't know that I would have been sadder for a guy if I had taken that call. Terrible.

>> Uh okay. Um and then I was on the call

with Dave when the guy started the call.

Dave, you're stupid and arrogant. And I just was like this.

I I I don't know what was going to happen, but man, I think I replied to the guy, I've got a great book for you. It's called How to Win Friends and Influencers.

>> How about that? That's pretty fun. You guys are great. >> Yeah, y'all were great. >> Yeah, you guys knew it.

>> You knew it.

>> Yes, sir. I made my own little bonus question here. Um, you are kind of known for the crew infamous for having quite a bit of uh doozies that you don't even realize what you're saying. So, we have kind of like our own booth quote book for Ken. >> Oh, boy. >> We call them kenuendos. >> Inuendos.

They happen all the time and they're so >> Can I say before he reads these, I truly don't in the moment know that they come across the way that you're about to hear them.

>> So, the best ones I don't feel comfortable saying in front of an audience. >> That is I picked two and the third one is not Ken. So, so here's here's the Ken version. A head on over to your local hardwood dealer and make mama happy.

[Applause] All right. B, that's a whole different

process emotionally than drinking your mama's milk.

And C, he needs a good sip of grown-up

juice.

>> So, what's the what's the non-kin statement? >> C. >> James, tell them. >> So, the answer is B. But it was a real

statement said by Dave. So they were all real, just not by Ken.

>> And Rachel was Rachel was on with me when I made the hardwood dealer comment.

And I Does anybody in here remember that one? You all remember everything else? You remember that one? Oh, it's good to know you guys listen when Dave's not on.

That's great.

>> Uh just quick context, you remember this? Oh, yeah. young couple called and they had been saving up to renovate their house and been living in just, you know, a dump of a floor. They'd saved up. They had plenty of >> She wanted to do it. >> She wanted to finish their hardwoods on the first floor. And this guy was like, "My boy Jake over here

>> and you know, he was just he called us and he's just him and Hawing and Ken, should I do it? Rachel, should I do it?" And I finally said at the end, you know what? >> Go down. >> Tell your wife. Hang up. Tell her going out for dinner and then take her down to the hardwood dealer and make mama happy.

>> Except Ken, you said it a little more like this. Take mama down to the hardwood dealer and make mama happy. It was more like that. >> That is true.

>> A little bit more juiced up. >> That is true. And I look over and James and the entire crew. Uh they're dying laughing and I know that I've said something, but I don't know what I've said.

>> And so we go to the commercial break and these guys are amazing.

Twice a week. >> It's like ESPN playback slow motion.

This kind just caren off.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Uh we are going to now go to another question. Is that right? We got Ricky. Everybody welcome Ricky to the mic.

[Applause]

>> Hi.

I live up in Skoi which is one of the suburbs. Um and I brought one of your biggest fans with me, my daughter Ruthie.

I read your book. >> You read my book?

>> She's gonna be a future millionaire. I love it. >> She will.

>> That's fantastic. >> Um, so speaking of books, are there any books that you've read recently that you recommend um either lifestyle, relationship, financial, not yours, because we've read all of those. Um, particularly for people in baby steps four through seven.

>> Oh. >> Oh, that's good. um >> books that we've read lately >> that would help you in four >> uh I had I have two money ones that are not Ramsay but I loved them and they're bestsellers I feel like people have probably read them but um the psychology of money >> it's a great one okay so if you read that one and then die with zero have you read Die with Zero >> it's a great one I don't agree with everything in it but he does a really good job presenting the case of using your money while you're alive whether that is if you're instead of leaving a big inheritance give it to your kids when you when when you're alive and when they need it for like a down payment on a house all of this because his whole thing is if you die at 85 and all your grown kids are 60 65 they're fine.

So if you can use it throughout your life um which again we say at Ramsey that you know you should leave a legacy to your children's children all the things. So there's a balance in it, but I think he does a really good job of saying, "Hey, if you have done well financially and you do have the ability to spend it on experiences with people you love, if you're able to use it to help your family, if you're able to be generous, like instead of leaving it all to charity when you die, like be giving now more." Um, I love that mindset.

die with zero. It's a great one.

>> Real quick, uh, I would say The Pursuit of Happiness is the name of the book.

Uh, it's written by Jeffrey Rosen. And what he does is he goes back into our founding fathers. Obviously many of us know the phrase the pursuit of happiness from the first line of the Declaration of Independence written by Thomas Jefferson. But this book goes back and it examines who influenced the founding fathers to the point that they used that phrase and it goes back into the Stoics.

The reason I'm recommending this book for people in four, five, and six is because you've been gazelle intense. And so now you're in that stage of living like no one else. And this book does a fabulous job of explaining what that

phrase means. It's become an American phrase. Uh but the real heart of it is that the pursuit of happiness as the Stoics and then our founding fathers saw that phrase. It was not about gaining stuff.

It was about growing in your virtue. And I think that's a perfect book for people who are going now I can use my money in a very different way to live like no one else. And so the pursuit of happiness was a pursuit of getting more virtuous and thus you were happy. So I guess that's the one that I would recommend.

>> That's good. >> Beautifully said.

>> Yeah. Great book. >> I'm a guy who is very focused on the financial side, but my my if you look at it like a tire, I had a flat tire on the other sides, right? Like social relationships, physical health.

And so this book talks about yes financial but also all these other areas of life that if you don't have them under control your quality of life will suffer. And he talks about you know parenting and the different seasons of life and the amount of time you have with your kids. And it just helped me to look beyond just the money stuff as the nerd and go like oh I probably should work on these other areas now that I got the money stuff under control. So that's a great one regardless of where you're at.

>> Yeah, great question. Thank you everybody. Give her some love. Way to go.

All right, next is Ashley. Keep the applause going for Ashley. Where is she?

There we go.

>> There's a man following you. Be careful.

>> Yeah, that guy looks shady.

>> They They told me he could come up. >> Okay, great. Introduce yourself. Ashley and >> uh I'm Ashley.

>> Hey, Den Theater. My name's Jim.

>> Hey, Jim. >> Jim. >> That's Jim. >> Do you do voiceover work?

>> I have done that in a past life. long long time ago. >> Okay. Well, you haven't lost it, pal.

That's >> a side gig. >> Very exciting. Okay. What's your question, Ashley? >> Um, so we're in uh Baby Step four, five, and six, and we're just kind of like feeling kind of stagnant. Like, it's kind of boring. I mean, I'm happy that we're here, but um and we're able to invest the 15% um and we are saving for

college. Um, but we're just not finding

every single time we have any extra money, we can't put it towards our mortgage. It's like we have a plumbing issue or we need a new car, which was a

$5,000 car, just so you know. Um, you know, so it's just it's just been really difficult in this kind of phase because like we got out of debt really quick and we saved our emergency fund really quick and now we're just like, okay, let's move it. I I really want to pay off the house. Like I want to walk in the grass.

Like I >> Yeah. How many kids do you guys have?

>> We have two. We have How old are they?

>> Yeah. We have a 13-year-old uh son and we have a seven-year-old daughter.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> How long have you guys been in baby steps four, five, and six?

>> Year. >> About a year and a half. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Because I do think we have this picture of because the steps are so

succinct that everything is just going to go up like this and we're just going to keep going and going and going. It's going to be great. But the truth is life happens. You're in it a year on average.

I think our millionaire um from our millionaire study nine years I think is the average that they're paying off houses. >> I think it's seven for baby steppers, 10 for for millionaires in general.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So yeah, seven's in your so you have just so give yourself another sixyear right runway meaning

within those six years your income's going to go up stages of life with kids is going to change like things of life are going to change and I really do believe if you are disciplined and your goal is to pay off the house early and you guys are looking and working the plan it's going to happen I really do believe that I think just give yourself a little bit of grace cuz life does this right like cars break refrigerators break things happen you know you got to buy plane tickets for a family to to go somewhere, you know, if there's a funeral, like whatever it is, things are going to be up and down.

And so, I would just say give yourself some patience. I think you really are going to get there. I really do. And I know it can feel frustrating right now, but um you will get there.

>> With the airplane analogy, it really is like when you're getting up to altitude, it's kind of exciting. There's like announcements happening. We're like, "Woo, we're taking off." And then you're 40,000 feet up. be like, "All right, 3 hours to go on this flight. I guess I'll watch it." And so it does get kind of boring. What helped us was tracking it.

Maybe make it visual if you want to do like rings for the mortgage and right now it's like, "Woo, 300 went to principal." Towards the end, you're really making progress. So, it does get faster and your incomes are going to go up. The kids will be out of the season where they're mega expensive and hopefully offer payroll eventually. So, just know that right now it might feel hard. I also would do a budget audit and go, why can't we make progress? You know, is the emergency fund good? Okay.

Why can't we cash flow these things in our budget? Do we need syncing funds for maintenance and repairs so that it doesn't feel like it's derailing this other goal? >> Yeah. Actually, I just wonder like we maybe we're putting away too much in our syncing funds. Maybe we have too many syncing funds, you know? That could be.

>> So, I think that that's something we should probably reevaluate. >> But we need them all the time >> cuz stuff comes up, right? Right. That's what you're saying. >> Well, just yesterday. >> Yeah. What happened yesterday?

>> We did need it yesterday. >> Tree roots blocking our sewage system.

Let's I'm I'm sure this I'm sure the Den Theater wants all the details. >> Yikes. >> Well, I imagine that Jim, when you saw that, you went, "Oh my, this is unfortunate." >> That's a great Jim impression.

>> Uh, >> this must end stat.

>> Yeah, Jim likes the microphone more than I do. And that's saying something.

>> That's saying something. I have a quick question because you said boredom. I I'm just wondering when was the last time you guys planned and saved up to do something fun. >> Yeah, I think that's also the situation.

We're taking a year off from like fun like like we because we've had a lot of fun. We did have a lot of fun after we paid off the debt >> and >> we just went on a Royal Caribbean cruise just a couple months ago. >> Oh, that's fun. So, we're we're trying not to take any vacations.

Got it. You answer it. Yeah. This year.

But >> yeah. Do you have a set goal every month for how much we want to put toward the mortgage? Can you tell us what that is on top of the normal payment? How much do you want to put toward principal?

>> I That's the thing. I I don't think we Yeah, we probably should be more specific. >> I would be very specific and go like, is it $500? Okay, we're going to do $500 before the other chaos happens in our life.

Like, make it a priority if it's a priority. Sure. >> And then track it. And you'll see the balance go down and go, can we do 600 this month?

Hey, we got a bonus coming up. Can we put that toward it? And as your income goes up, the amount will go up. the principal will start to sink down and you'll feel like you're making progress.

>> 155. >> Okay. When you go below that six figure mark, you're going to get a new pep in your step, a second wind if you will, in that marathon. So, just keep at it.

You're doing all the right things. >> Yeah, you guys are doing great. Congratulations for Thank you guys.

>> Thank you.

>> All right. Uh we're going to go to another question. We got Amanda's coming up to the mic. Give Amanda some love.

The ladies have shown up tonight and I have to say >> the guys no bravery. Pure cowardice. No guy. Come on. >> I think some of them come up.

>> Hello. >> Hi. Where are you from? >> Um I just recently moved to Milwaukee.

So um an hour and a half up north.

>> Nice. >> Nice. >> Um so my question is I was incredibly blessed with a 22-year career in the United States Air Force. I recently retired. >> Thank you for your service.

>> Thank you. >> You're a great American. >> Thank you. Um, and like a lot of veterans, my identity was completely wrapped up in the uniform. >> Yeah. >> So, my question is, how do I find meaningful work on my terms

um while I differentiate myself from my military career? >> Yeah, I love this question. Um, I'm going to go back to the whiteboard example that I used a minute ago. And so, we would look at your entire career in the Air Force >> and we would look at all the skills that you've acquired. And I think this is an exercise I'm going to challenge you to do. >> Okay. >> Uh tomorrow.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. And so one side of the paper, I want you to write down talent. And I want you to write down all the skills that you've acquired. And and and you know, like let it flow like I was really good at this. I learned this all that stuff. And it just creates the proper narrative. Then the second thing you're going to write down is all of the experience and describe the experience.

Right? So I had these talents and skills

but uh my experience was over here in crisis management or in you know whatever logistics >> just write it out. And so then you can look at both of those sides of the paper and go oh this is who I am regardless of

whether I was in the Air Force or not.

>> So that's the first thing. Second thing is to realize that a lot of employers

really respect people that come out of the military. It's the greatest organization in the world.

>> Amen. >> Come on. And uh so yeah, so

that's the narrative. Hey, I'm trained

and this is what I acquired and this is what I did. And then take that and now

go out there and look online and just see what's out there. You don't have to apply, but just see what's out there in the world. Because Chad GPT, by the way, is amazing. And I would literally take those things I had you write down and I would put it in chatbt and say, "Hey, describe for me potential paths outside

of the military." >> Mhm. >> With this skill set and this experience

blow your freaking mind. >> Yeah. >> All right. I'm sure. >> I'm also going to give you my Get Clear Career Assessment. >> Excellent. Thank you. >> And uh so Grayson right here, the handsome guy in the red hair, see him afterwards. He'll get your email. I want you to take the assessment and and I'm not going to describe it for lack of time. >> Sure. But it'll really dis create a I

think an ideal job description for you and it'll actually give you some AI suggestions. But that's the exercise because right now it's really hard for our men and women from the military. That's all they've ever known. So it feels so scary.

>> Am I nailing it? >> Transition has been difficult for sure.

>> Of course, but a lot of it is you're just terrified because of the unknown and you've only known one world.

>> Okay. And so uh here's what we know. If

you've ever driven in a car, Amanda, and it started to rain really, really hard.

So hard that you couldn't see.

>> What did you do?

>> Um, pulled over and waited for it to >> pulled over, slowed down, we stopped, right? And and we moved back onto the road when everything clears up. The lack of the unknown is one of the most paralyzing fears that we as humans face.

So the exercise I've given you is going to help you see, >> okay, what is out there. Now, once you

see what is out there and you match it all up with the exercise I gave you plus the assessment, now it's all about I'm going to tell everybody I know what I'm actually looking for. And I think you're going to find there are a lot of great Americans >> who want to help a great American.

>> Absolutely. >> And I really believe it's that simple.

Seeing leads to believing and believing

will lead to you getting the thing that you want to get and you're going to do great out there. I absolutely believe that. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you.

Uh, okay. Uh, oh, this is very exciting.

>> Do you know my This is very exciting.

You know, we we've never done like a really cool group debtree screen. And

>> we got a lot of debtree people in here. >> We got a lot. How How many debtree people? >> How many debtree people we have?

>> Oh, yeah. >> They're not excited about it, but they are debtree. >> They are. They're here. >> They are here. And uh so what we realized is is that we we we just had so many of you and so we said well let's do a group debtree scream. So um so we're

going to try to qualify you and see if we can do something fun here. Okay. Uh so who has become debtree in the last 12

months? Stand up if that's you. Stand up

tall. Don't sit down.

>> Oh yeah. We >> Okay.

>> Yeah.

>> All right.

Okay, that's a good amount. So, George, you got your writing utensil? >> Yeah, I'm going to use uh >> Oh, you're going to use your phone. Now, here's what we're going to do. Stay standing. Stay standing. And if I miss you, because I can't completely see around me, I'm going to start to my right cuz I see some folks right here.

>> Add up how much how much debt has been paid off in the last 12 months in this room, right? And George has got his handy dandy calculator. So, yell it out loud and proud right here. This couple, how much? >> Round up. Uh, $280,000.

>> $280,000.

>> All right. Okay. Next.

>> 3500. >> Hold your applause. Hold your applause.

3500. Okay. Next.

>> 40,000. >> 40.

>> 75,000. You guys are going to have to help me if there's anybody else. Go around the room like the wave. What?

What's next? >> Uh, >> George, you got these numbers >> right here in the front. >> Right here. >> 48,000. >> 48,000. >> 48. >> Ma'am, right back here. I'm pointing at you. >> 5,000. >> 5,000. Okay. Up in the top.

>> 46. >> 46,000. This couple right back here.

>> 146,000. >> Oh, 126. And then >> 48,000. >> 48,000. George, you keeping up. Okay.

You, sir, in the hat. >> 4,000. >> 4,000. This couple right here.

>> 175. By the way, sit down once you give me your number. That That'll be 17

right here. >> 15,000 back here.

>> 42. >> 42. All right.

265,000.

>> 265,000.

Can I >> This is for fun. The total for just the year has been in this room.

>> Oh, I like this. Drum roll. Give like a

Joe drum roll.

>> In this room in the last 12 months, $1,172,000.

[Applause]

>> That's wrong.

>> I love it. How about that?

>> Oh my gosh. Okay, so for the debtree scream, I think everyone in the room who is debtree stands up. >> I I think is that what we're going to do? We're going to do a So, everybody who's debtree, stand up.

>> And that can be consumer debt, too. It doesn't have to be your house. >> It doesn't have to be your house or baby step seven. >> Oh my gosh. Look at all these debtree people.

>> Oh my gosh. >> I Here's what we're going to do. Rachel, >> I think you should be the one that counts them down. >> Do I count it down? >> Do a three, two, and one. Everybody count with Rachel. She's gonna take over and when she counts you down, we want to hear the loudest. >> No, I think I think they I think I catch you all up just like we do on the calls.

>> All right, go for it. Count it down. We're going to count it down. Let's do a free screen. There's your and then you all say three, two, one.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Uh live from the den in Chicago making anywhere from zero to >> $250,000.

Oh, we have an entire group of people that have paid off $1 almost $1.2

million in this room. So, you guys count it down for your big debt-free scream. 3

2 1.

[Applause] [Music] [Applause]

>> Heck yeah.

>> You guys so fantastic. We applaud you.

>> Incredible.

>> We don't want to just applaud you because you know what we do, George? What do we do on the show when when we have a debt free little parting gift? So on the stage if someone does the debtree scream live from Ramsay headquarters then it goes to a break after the Braveheart plays then we sneak out. We go to the lobby. That's right.

>> And we yell, celebrate everyone that watch the show in the lobby. We hug. We take pictures. We give some stuff away.

>> That's right. And one of the things we give away is one year of every dollar premium. So we thought it'd be fun for anyone who did their debtree scream to get a year of every dollar premium. How does that sound?

Now, we know there's a lot of people who are in Baby Step 2. They're in the thick of it. They're trying to make it through and they're going, "That feels I shouldn't. I feel like I need it." So, Ken, what do you Can we do some outrageous generosity, too? >> We're going to do something crazy and borrow a page from maybe the one of the greatest television givers of all time.

It's our Oprah moment because if you stand up and turn your chairs upside down, everybody gets every dollar

tonight. Yeah.

You get in every dollar and you get in every dollar and you get in every dollar. This is so up.

>> There it is. This is the >> There it is. >> How about that? And can I add this is not this is not your grandma's Every Dollar.

If you guys didn't know, we just released an allnew version of Every Dollar. And it's way more than just a budgeting app. And Rachel and I with Jay did this premiere explaining it all. So give them the spark notes of what's now included.

>> Yes. So every dollar again, not just a budgeting app anymore, ladies and gentlemen. It's over your entire financial picture. So it's it's coaching, it's group calls, uh it's your budget still.

So it is a much bigger version. It's the allnew Every Dollar. We're so excited for you guys to experience. You guys, we are so excited about tonight. You guys have been >> Yes. Thank you guys so much for coming.

Chicago. We want to say on behalf of everybody back in Nashville, Tennessee, from Ramsey Solutions, for our entire crew, the cameramen, uh, everybody that

works so hard to bring financial peace to people, uh, our entire team, we're so proud to be associated with you. You are the ones that did the work. You guys are making a difference. You've got financial peace and you have changed your family tree. So, we still believe in you. We're never going to stop believing in you. So proud to serve you tonight and just on behalf of Rachel and George, entire team, thank you all for being here. Good night. >> Thank you.

>> Thank you guys.

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## 227. The Ramsey Show Live from Orlando


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:01:22 |

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What's up?

Normal is broke and common sense [cheering] is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, LIVE IN THE BEACH in Orlando. This is the Ramsay Show.

[cheering] Now we're talking. That's what I imagine everyone does at home when they're listening to the show in their car. Oh, this is so fun. Thank you for being a part of this.

We got a lot of people uh watching this at home and we're just grateful to be out of the house. I got a newborn and let me tell you, I was like, "Babe, I got to go to work. I don't know what to tell you. The people need me." Well, let's get to what you guys came here for.

This is the Ramsay Show Live and we are going to take your questions.

>> Ah, yeah. >> There she is. Step right up. We have a little stage for you. [applause] Tell us your first name and where you're from. >> Hello, everyone. Uh, my name's Michelle.

And, um, my husband and I have been married for five years. And debt is

something that we have tried our best to

tackle time and time again. And every time it feels we've taken two steps forward, it feels like we take three steps back. Um, tomorrow I'm actually going to be laid off from work.

>> Sorry. >> No, you're good. Take your time.

>> And it feels very scary. We have a two

and a half yearear-old daughter [snorts] who is special needs and um

she does various therapies and we have a

lot going on with her, right? Um

I was the full-timer to be available for

her. [laughter] Um my husband is part-time right now. We also have a small business that we are still growing, but it's not enough yet to pay

us full-time. Um, so I think there's

just so much going on. So, um, I'm just

kind of like, what do we do? What do we focus on first? Because we don't know how long it'll take for me to either get another job or for our business to really take off or anything like that.

Like, what would you focus on first?

>> Four walls.

And you've probably heard us say that, but it it gives so much peace to say first things the most important things are shelter, right? That's that's your rent or your mortgage. Making sure that's the top thing, right? And then after that, we're just going through the line of priority. Yeah. You got to make sure the utilities are stay on, right?

You need a AC, right? All that kind of stuff. You need to make sure there's food and cabinet and you need to make sure there's transportation. Those are the first ones. And then after that, there might be other priorities. Maybe there's daycare. Maybe there's insurance payments, right? But you can prioritize those down the list. But when you do that, it kind of puts a stop on everything else. And it's okay to do that. It's okay to tell the other stuff, let's talk to the hand like I don't have it right now. And they'll be strong.

They will be fine. I I I have been where

you're at right now. And it feels intimidating to know that you know your money, but you also have the power to say not right now. And and and that's okay. You got this is this is a season and you'll come out of it.

But really just dialing in and saying, "Okay, with the money that we do have coming in, how far does that get us?" And sitting down tonight or, you know, first thing in the morning and saying, "The money that we have coming in from the small business, from your husband's work, how far does that get us as far as what our actual needs are in the budget and what's that gap, right? And putting real numbers around this so it doesn't feel like just this cloud of uncertainty, right, floating over your head.

gap? How can we fill that $1,200 gap, right?" But at least you know exactly what the gap will be. And not only will you know the dollar amount, but you'll know and that $1,200 gap is these, you

know, six items or these five items. And that's going to give you peace as well.

>> Yes. Thank you. It's also okay to pause

trying to get a business off the ground.

It might be husband looking AC. This might be the moment that you say this can't never happen to us again, right?

This might be the moment that cat like that catapult y'all into taking control of your financial life, but it might be like I love what Jade said about it's real easy to get into um dream job or

career or small business. Those are all real big passiony things, feeling things. Y'all have a really serious emergency math problem. And so tomorrow

he becomes a guy with four part-time jobs because he has a math problem to solve. Not a career, not a passion, not we have a math problem we have to solve, right? And we're going to knock on every door we can find because we have a math problem, right? And it takes some of the some of the smoke out of it and we just start putting out out that fire. You got a good community around you. People you can lean on. >> Absolutely. Yes. >> It's awesome. >> Please don't be afraid to ask for help.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> My wife went to the ER today. I'm out of town.

I'm like scrambling and next thing I know there's 17 people texting me, showing up, bringing meals, watching the baby. And so just know that like I know you feel like weird asking for it and there's shame and you just want to be alone, but now is the time to lean on your people and they will show up for you. We're we're praying for you to get that job real soon. >> Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Pray for that baby. Thank you so much, Michelle.

>> All right. Something we like to do in the show, Jade and John, is we like to help couples out by settling the debate.

>> People call and say, "Can you settle this debate? I think I'm right. Prove me right." And usually the person calling in is wrong.

>> Most of the time, >> they're trying to justify and go, "Jade, you're on my side, right?" And you're like, "Actually, [laughter] so we thought it'd be fun to do this live, which is a little scarier. So, do we have a Dawn in the crowd? Are they here tonight? >> Please tell me that one of them doesn't know this is happening.

>> Come on up. Give it up for him. That's nerve-wracking. [cheering]

>> Welcome, guys. Okay. What's the debate in your house? >> So, my name's Tom. I'm a to save aolic

and >> light. I haven't heard that term. Save a holic. >> It's my wife doing. >> I'm a I'm a give a holic. I'm a pleaser

>> and nobody's spending money in this house. >> It's just we're saving, we're giving. We're the nicest people on earth. >> That's not true. But we uh we're baby step seven for about a year and um you

know I make low six figures and we we do we do okay. But I she likes to give to

our kids. Um you know, >> we're a blended family.

>> Um he had three children, I had three children. Um, we've been together 10

years. It's been a 10-year process of blending and coming together. And our

family trips and our family time has

really that that's how I measure our wealth.

Right. I think it's more about with me like we do these trips, we spend5 to$10,000 and um they've been great trips, but every single time for me it's like oh it's like every you know whether we want to go spend a few hundred bucks for supper with all the kids. It's like she's like let's do this and I'm like I'm always glad after but it always is like every time. [laughter] So that's the debate like I need to figure out how to be okay with spending.

You know what I mean? It's like a me and money don't h >> how do we budget it? I think that's our biggest problem.

>> I mean now where is step 8 n and 10

>> that's when you get back to Dave I'll send you his Venmo.

>> There's no struggle here. It's not like it's you're not going to be able to retire because of this. It's just more that Tom is feeling like we should be doing more over here. we could be doing more over here and we're just spending willy-nilly on the family funding this

fun life. Is that kind of it? What's behind that, Tom?

>> It really It took it took a long time between the two of us to get, you know, I've been with the same company for 38 years working my ass off and it's just

like we're here now and it's like I want to just keep saving and make sure that there's enough and but I know there's going >> that there is enough. >> Yeah. My [laughter] my guess is you guys are probably multi-millionaires by now, Tom. Is that right?

>> There is enough. >> Okay. So, on paper, if you sat down with a financial adviser, would they be like, "Yeah, you could retire, bud." >> Yes, they have. >> And they've said it.

Yeah. >> They've said it out loud. >> Yeah. Well, my my brother-in-law is a financial adviser.

And he's like, "Yeah, you know, by the time you're 75, he said you'll have >> Say it. >> But but we >> Is it like $25 million or something stupid?" Okay.

Hold hold hold it down. We We want to just >> We want to We want to make them a priority while we're alive. We want to live and give while we're alive. We want to see the difference made while we're alive. >> Can I throw an alternative? >> Yes. >> Is there a chance? It's very common thing when there's blended families.

That means that somewhere along the trajectory, the forever plan changed and

there's hurt and there's fear and there's I want to make sure everybody's okay. And one of the ways I can make sure everybody's okay is to clear the deck of any possible challenge. And if

you marry somebody and y'all together, y'all now have resources that maybe you've never had, I want to begin to buy

laughter and joy. And it's not a bad impulse, but in a weird way, I end up using that money and those experiences to make

me feel less guilty, less sad, less

painful for the the memories I had when they were little, right? When they were asking those hard hard questions like where's this and why do we have to live?

Those kind of things. >> And so it's it's almost a both end, which is practicing. I hate to use that word because it's like we we turn these into moral issues and character issues.

I think it's a practice and and I I made

a joke earlier. I think this is where a budget can really help. Like >> your spiritual exercise, man, is I'm going to budget fun money.

>> I'm going to practice exhaling and saying, "Thank you, God.

Thank you, hard work. And I'm going to budget joy." And you begin to practice.

I'm going to begin to look in the mirror and say, "I'm a good mom. I've done a

good job." And I'm worth being loved

just at a table with a bunch of delivered pizzas, not at some five the

fivestar. Those are awesome, but also you're worth being loved. And your kids and their kids and their kids will have tons of fun. They'll have they'll tell the story at your funeral about the time you ran out in the backyard and sprayed them all with the hose. not the seventh vacation that y'all spent $20,000 on.

>> And so it's both of y'all practicing.

We've done good. Let's practice this next layer. And y'all get to ask yourselves that question. What do you want this to look like? You've worked real hard. >> I just made me think of this quote. You can't spend your way into a meaningful life. And I'll flip it for Tom. You can't save your way to a wealthy life.

It just goes so far beyond that. And so I think you both have some homework to do. And so for that reason, I think the judge is going to preside and say this is this is 50/50 right here. It is >> both guilty is charged. Congratulations.

Welcome to marriage where nobody wins.

>> Thank you. Thank [cheering] you.

>> Great question, guys. Thank you for trusting us. >> Great question. [applause] >> Can I petition to be one of the kids? I mean, you already got six. What's seven? I mean, add me to the vacation.

>> You all have to understand, though, that when George Camel tells you, "Y'all should spend some money." >> That's something. >> Yeah.

Well, what we found, John, there's a great book for you, Tom, by the way. It's called Die with Zero. This is a true book.

>> What' you think of it? >> Excellent. >> Excellent book. Okay. The premise is that you don't need to leave $5 million to your kids when they're in their 60s.

Use the money now to have these experiences. That's what's going to create more meaning than just like, "Oh, cool. I inherited $5 million when I didn't really need it." Set your kids up now in their adult life when it matters more. >> That's good. >> So, it's a it's a decent principles in there for for guys like Tom. Love it.

Uh, let's let's help the people. Can we do that? We have another live question coming up. We get that lined up. Give it up for them, whoever they are. Oh, this is fun. She's running down because >> Right. >> Why is that our only reference to someone running down in a game? Great.

>> All right. Tell us your name and where you're from. >> I am Caroline Goens and I am from Winter Garden, Florida. >> Lovely.

>> So, here's a little bit and then I'll tell you my question. So, my dad has recently decided to spend time with me after not being there for most of my early childhood and up to now. I feel

like I should spend time with him because it's the right thing to do, but part of me feels like why now? Where

should I keep my boundaries?

>> Good question. >> Tell me about the word should. Who gave you that story?

>> He kind of did, I feel like.

>> Okay. So, when somebody opts out of our

lives and they knock on the door to come back in, I always want to ask myself,

what do I want my house to feel like?

>> And is my body like literally not

sounding like woo woo, but like is it excited to open that door or is it scared to open that door? And if it's scared to open that door, I often, this is me personally, up in my bag, up in the room back here, I have a journal that I keep with me and it's just a stories journal. When I start telling myself stories, it's all coming down. I need to do this.

I should have done this. I'll write it down and I just ask myself, is this true? Am I scared because he might hurt me again? Do I not want to see him because he hasn't changed?

still a seven-year-old in the driveway watching him drive off wondering what did I do dad like what was so bad about me and asking yourself those questions and then those usually frame your boundaries which you can open the door and say I'm not ready yet or I can open the door and say I need you to know

I still haven't figured out why you left and I I want to have that conversation before you come back or if you come back

and you've been drinking, you have to go. Or you can't come in this door, but I'll meet you at another place for a while. Or thank you for the invitation, but not yet. Right? But it's it's often

when especially with our parents when they do something when we were kids, right? They leave, they were in a

different fa whatever. Um when they

call, my dad can call me and I go back

to being nine like that, right? and I

got a good dad. Like my dad's still around, right? And so it's remembering

I'm not in the backseat of his car anymore. I'm in the front seat of mine.

And that transition can be hard, but it's just spending a little bit of time with yourself. And sometimes a great

text message back or an email back is,

I'll be in touch in 24 hours. And that's a tiny way that you can reclaim autonomy. I'll answer you tomorrow or answer you later. And that'll give me some space. I don't feel like I have to jump back in. But often, I don't know about you, I I go right back to people

pleasing. It's all going to be okay or fear or whatever those things are, right? Why'd he go?

>> He cheated >> on my mom. >> Did she send him away or did he leave?

>> He left >> out of shame and guilt or he wanted to start a new family with someone else?

>> Maybe both. I'm not sure.

>> Maybe that's the question to start with.

>> Yeah, that's a scary hard one. How much of you wants to reconnect and reconcile and how much of you is like not interested at all? >> I think my heart wants to, but my brain's like, whoa, hold on. [laughter]

So, I think it's more of like I have I

feel like I have a very open heart where my my brain is like the logical like

I want to put some boundaries there or something there. >> Yeah. And probably both are true.

>> And both will lie to you also, right?

Yes. >> How old are you now? >> 28. >> Do you have a dream of 35-year-old you having him over for dinner? >> I do. >> That's usually a cool place to start.

And slowly reverse engineering it back to Okay. What must be true tomorrow for that 35 that seven years from now dream to come true. Do you have kids?

>> Not yet. >> Not yet. Okay. Do you have a dream of him holding one of your babies one day?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And by the way, that wasn't fair.

That was a hard question I just asked you. And the fact that you answered it quickly like that is awesome. I would listen to that voice.

>> I don't think it's all or nothing. I think it's just like John said, just taking that one little step. Let's test the temperature in the water here. Okay, we'll take one step in uh instead of just rushing in or blocking forever.

I think we just need to stair step into it as you feel comfortable and and hopefully that trust and healing starts to happen. >> And remember this always, you're in the driver's seat of the car. You get to choose what happens next.

happens next. It's awesome. I'm proud of you, dude. That's cool. >> Thank you. >> Awesome. Thank you for the question, Caroline. [applause] >> All right, we're on the road. We can't travel with the whole crew, but we had to bring arguably the most important person uh to the show who's behind the scenes, and that is producer James.

Would you guys like to meet him? [cheering] >> Come on out, James. There he is.

This is fun, >> guys. [cheering] >> I feel like you need your own music when you come on. >> I should have thought about that. >> Yeah.

What would it be? >> I am glad that John and I wore the same outfit. >> Yeah. I got I got I got James texted me and he's like, "Hey, bro.

>> Yeah. So, you know, obviously most of the questions tonight are from you guys about your situations, but we also got a bunch of fun questions that are more for y'all to get a little bit of a peak behind the curtain. Kind of dangerous, but there's some fun questions in here.

So, we've got maybe 10 or 12. So, maybe we can do like five or six of them now and then we can do some more later.

>> Yeah. But I think this would be fun. >> If they're okay with it, it's their show. >> That's true. >> Okay, let's do it. >> All right, let's do it. >> Thank you. This is the biggest fishbowl I've ever seen. Okay, here we go.

>> Jade can do. Okay. Oh, wow. God, this lady like I was scared of her. Let Jay do it. >> You better listen to her. >> I was going to pass it down. >> I was going to say, do you want me to just get the card out and hand it to him or >> No, you read it. The patriarchy's dead.

Jade, read it.

>> All right.

>> She wants you to sing it.

>> Describe your co-host in three words.

>> Oh, that was fun. [cheering] I actually really enjoyed that. That was more like a jingle. [laughter] >> Describe your co-host in three words.

Sorry. You never should have done that. >> It doesn't have to be like consecutive. I know. I know. Okay. Different words is fine. >> Yeah. It doesn't say consecutive. It says describe your co-host in three words. >> Okay. And just top of mind. Don't think about it too long. John, go. >> John, >> what do you think of me?

[cheering] >> Three words. >> Intentional.

[laughter] >> OCD.

>> I'll allow it. >> Great friend. A >> that was four words. So you say you lost the game, but [laughter] that was very kind. >> Hyphen very short.

>> All right, Jade. >> Wait, John has to describe me.

>> Oh. >> Ah, >> okay. I thought we're going to be all about me first. >> Oh. Oh, wait. You want to do it that way? >> No. No. It's fine. >> Let's ask her. What do you think?

[cheering] >> She'll allow it. Um, >> describing Jade. This is one word.

>> Do I need to come up with another truth teller? Okay.

Lots of hyphens. The most talented person I know.

Incredibly beautiful.

>> A my dog. So nice. Okay, George. First,

I've said this before, I'll say it again. Uh, intellectual.

Um, I will go with funny and

conscientious.

>> Wow, thank you. That's so kind.

>> Yeah, George is an extremely hard worker. Um, anybody who knows him knows that he puts a lot of effort into everything he's doing. >> Oh, I just called that OCD, but yeah, you can see that. >> Thank you.

>> Okay, John. I'm going to go with um genuine. I wanted to say fun, but that sounds so just like trite. I'm like, you're way more than fun. You're like jovial. There we go. How about that? And I'm trying to think of a word that describes how uh smart you are without just saying smart.

>> I was going to say academic. >> Academic, but yeah, that doesn't have any cache. Like you've got like >> I was going to say like soant brilliant

prodigy.

>> Take one of those. You put your jness on everything and I like that.

>> That's good. Okay, Jade. I will go I'll go quick.

Fierce.

>> Yeah. Poised.

>> Never do that again, Jade. Okay.

>> Infectious.

>> There we go. [laughter] John, I'm going to go tardy.

>> You know, John, to know John is to know John is tardy. Um, [laughter]

generous >> indeed. >> Hilarious.

>> I'll take it. That's it.

>> That's all I got. >> I agree. >> I'm going to do one. Don't be mad at me.

We'll pass it around. spread. >> Okay, but you have to sing this one. You have to come up with the jingle. >> This is so long. [cheering] >> Get it. Get >> I'm not going to listen. The people, they didn't pay to hear me sing.

[cheering] >> That would cost way more. You can stream my album on Spotify. And I wish that was a joke. [laughter] Uh, if you had to pick one restaurant to spend all your eating out budget on, where would you go? >> Something Italian, right?

>> Why you looking at me? Life. [laughter] I'm not going out to eat with you.

>> Oh, that's true. >> Publix.

>> Publix.

It said a restaurant.

>> I mean, we all love a pub sub, but [laughter] relax.

>> A pub sub? >> Yeah.

[cheering] >> You've never heard of a pub sub?

>> I can't tell if you're elitist or too poor to shop at Publix, John.

>> Man, >> at the deli at Publix, you can order sandwiches and they call them Pub Sub. Sub sub. >> Famously, there's one that is technically human food. It's just chicken tenders. >> Chicken tenders >> inside of a sub. >> That's the one.

>> And this is why America is the way it is. Even I know that.

>> I'm always going to have a job. Always.

[clears throat] >> All right. >> What is the restaurant? >> Where would John eat? I've never seen John eat. >> Yeah. What's your favorite even like kind of food? >> Without question. like um a

lowfi shack that does seafood right by the water. >> Ooh. >> Like of any kind. Like any animal that just came from the water and then we're going to eat it. That's That's my favorite. >> Or straight up like OG San Antonio

Mexican food.

>> That's a good answer. [applause]

>> Italian. Hit me with uh some kind of pasta, some kind of pizza sauce.

>> Dude, you you just saying those words gives George's special gluten-free tummy. >> I know. I know.

>> Gosh. >> What about you? >> Uh I'm, you know, of Middle Eastern descent and that's the food of my people. And so I got this is not technically accurate, but I'm going with like a taziki cava type. Like I could just eat that allian. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> There you go. >> All right. Down to John. We got We'll do one more here cuz John takes forever.

>> Which personality would you trust the least with your debit card? It's me.

It's me.

>> I mean, clearly >> you trust yourself the least. >> You would have more money in your account when I'm done with it.

>> That's actually fair. That's probably [laughter] true.

>> Which personality would you trust the least with your debit card?

>> I don't know why I want to say Rachel.

>> Oh, we didn't include Rachel. That's true. I I mean we can include She's not here, but we can include her, right?

>> Yeah, but she's buying like earrings on Amazon. John's buying like guitars and >> That's also true. That's a good point. >> No, but hold on. Rachel posts the Amazon purchases. Y'all don't see her drive up in the $400,000 car and the bags made of

a live alligator, like whatever. Like, so I'm still going, John. I'm picturing John like finding my debit card like, dude, we're gonna have some fun. [laughter] You know what I mean? Or Rachel like, we need to return this to George. She's probably worried about it, you know. >> That's true, Rachel. That's right.

>> If I found your debit card, there's a 100% chance I would buy some of the most gonzo things and have them shipped to your house. >> That's true. I trust me the least with >> Why am I getting boxes of diarrhea medication? Why? I did not.

>> Oh gosh. >> Can you see Whitney being like, "George, there is a pallet of hemorrhoid cream out here.

Are you okay? [laughter] So

there's I'm Y'all just I'm going to do that. That was fun. We had a good time. Hope you guys did, too.

We're going to do uh an anonymous question now. Uh one of you in the room submitted this, but you wanted to uh you know, not put your name on it. And we actually had two that are really similar. So, this is this is one of the questions that hits it hard.

I have been married for going on a decade and we're on baby step one. I love my husband, but he is not engaged in our finances.

our finances aren't combined and we aren't working together on a team to pay off our debt. I don't want to give up hope and pursue a divorce, but I'm so tired of always pushing him.

>> I mean, my first question would be, have you had any form of counseling? Like, have you sat down with a counselor at any point to discuss this with a third

party? Right. That'd be my first question. >> Yeah. What I found um that was unique to like coming from the world I came from to this to the Ramsay world is a lot of people watch the Ramsay stuff and they get inspired by the plan.

>> Mhm. >> And one of two things is true. They are

have always been a plan person. Like they used they brought home a bunch of Avon one time and now they like heard

that essential oils can cure liver cancer. So now they got a bunch of like it's always another plan and their partner just checks out >> like another scheme. >> It's another scheme. Um or they come at

somebody with a spreadsheet like here's the numbers and here's the debt. And we always find ourselves challenging people on air with that question beneath that which or that conversation beneath that which is sitting down with your spouse and saying I don't feel safe in my house. I can't breathe in my own house and I need you to help like participate

in helping me feel safe. And if your spouse says I'm out on that, that's a question. Like that to me is the question beneath the question. And if a spouse says I'm not participating, >> then that then you're going to end up in one office or another, either a divorce office or in a therapist's office.

But you you're going to have to involve professionals because that's somebody that's completely unplugged. Most of the time when somebody says, "I don't feel safe on my own house." Their spouse is like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't get it right." That was me.

My wife was so like, "I'm just an out of control person." But it was when she said like when I said, "I feel like you're creating a life without me." And she said, "I have to." That sentence I

have to was like, "Oh, like I'm so

erratic. I don't keep a budget. I don't I don't have any sort of stability." She's having to carve stability out of nothing because I'm I'm So that was the line that's like I got to go get help for me so that I can be more stable in my own house. >> All right, I'm going to play devil's advocate on this. This is a real conversation. You guys can handle it. So

the truth is yes to all of that. And the

truth is I because I I I'm talking from a a personal experience of a a best friend of mine. The truth also is you can have a spouse who you've said those things to and say, "Well, what makes me feel safe is being able to spend money on these things.

the truth is you can't make anybody change, right? You just can't make you could tell them everything in the book.

And she was like, "Jade, what do I do?" And I'm a firm believer. I'm like, "There's always something you can do to better your situation and you can't make this person change." And I told her, I was like, "Listen, if I were in your shoes, I would keep having the conversation, but I would do what I'm going to do, and I would share. I would share what I'm going to do. I would do it, and then I would share again." And so, for the next decade, she did that.

>> And she paid off $90,000 of debt uh

without her husband's true help. he was around, but he wasn't really helping.

And when the last $10,000 was to be paid, uh, they went to some conference and somebody mentioned the Ramsay plan over the stage and the light clicked on for him and for the last $10,000 he

helped and was on board. And so there's

part of this where there's you shouldn't be rendered completely helpless, right?

>> You still have to go do the next right thing. >> You still have to go do the right the next right thing. So, I would hate for somebody to feel like, well, they said, you know, we have to do it together. You do.

That is the best possible way to do this plan together, aligned on one accord, but at the same time, it could take a decade, right? It could take whatever your marriage situation is. And just because somebody doesn't want to do the Ramsey plan, you're not necessarily going to divorce them, right? And move on and go do your own money.

So, what can you do in the meantime? And I think that's the question that people really want to know is if this takes five years, am I rendered helpless for five years? No, you're not. Share, do you share?

And then the hope is that they get on board and in the meantime, you're in counseling.

>> That's a good line. On my show especially, I always ask when somebody says this or that, one of my first questions is always, "Are you going to leave them?" >> Right? >> And if they they're instant, no, it's okay. then you've made you've made that choice and so then what are you going to do inside that inside that choice you've made?

>> But if I ask that question, are you going to leave him? And there's that long pause, >> right? >> That tells me there's a deeper issue. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I found that there's such a wide spectrum for this question of basically how do I get my spouse on board? You've been married a decade and they've made it clear they're not going to opt into this. You kind of have your answer.

Did you just hear about the Ramsey plan or you're just excited and they don't get the vision yet? That's one thing versus someone who's actively dragging you down as you're trying to get out of debt cuz they're going further into it.

>> So, it's so personal to your situation,

but at the crux of this is a couple who has marriage issues for a decade and money is just the symptom.

>> And so, that's the hard part when we say, "Well, this is a marriage problem, not a money problem." We mean it.

Because until you get the marriage under control and they respect that person and what their dream and vision is and what their feelings are, then they're not going to change. Why would you?

>> That's true. >> So, that's a tough one. Uh, whoever submitted that, I appreciate that. I know that >> there are probably dozens more couples in here who have been there or maybe are sitting in this season right now.

>> All right, let's get to another live question. Tell us your first name and where you're from. >> My name is Serena and I'm from St.

Augustine. >> All right. What's your question?

>> What are some tips to stay focused on pushing through baby step two? I'm finding it difficult to get out of the yolo mindset when I'm confronted with the tomorrow isn't guaranteed internal voice.

>> So good.

>> That is good. >> So like a yolo thing would be like you're in baby step 2 and you buy

tickets to come to a club and watch the Ramsy show. >> Yes, precisely. So all cash paid. Um but

instead of you know sticking with baby step two and you think okay I really should save for this over here and pay this off but you know >> I really want to I have the opportunity so this is what I want to do and it's hard to stay focused >> on the right thing.

>> How long is this journey for you? Like what are we looking at? Is this seven years or is it one?

>> So I started with you guys. Uh, I say

you guys, I started listing to Dave Ramsey in 2021.

So, we are four years in.

>> Mhm. >> And still in the same spot.

>> How, like what percentage are you done?

Cuz you haven't moved. You're saying we haven't made progress in four years.

>> Little progress. Little progress.

>> I mean, I can tell you from my perspective. So, for Sam and I, it took seven and a half years to pay off our debt. And I think for us the mindset had

to shift from uh there's more ways to

enjoy life and there's more ways to get the most out of life. And generally that has to do with the people that you're around and the relationships that you're investing in. Um more so like don't get me wrong, experiences are a way to enjoy life. Going on a trip is a way to enjoy life.

But at the end of the day, I'm still coming home to Sam Warshaw, whether we went to Paris or we sat at home and made a pizza and it was delicious and we watched Sister Act, right? Um either way, that's a really great experience and there's ways to create memories and there's ways to truly enjoy and get the most out of life.

So, I think it really is a mindset shift that you're going to have to make. And it sounds like you spent four years not

seeing, you know, it's like you're doing all this toil but no traction. And I think that's probably what's got you feeling some type of way more so than the the yolo part of it. Right.

>> Right. >> What's a thing you've tried in the past that you've been really successful at

>> as far as >> athletics, academics? Like give me a give me an example.

>> Well, both. >> I'm seeing athletics. I'm looking at your guns [laughter] right now. And listen, gun show.

>> Don't embarrass me. Don't embarrass me.

Um, yeah. So, a healthy lifestyle definitely. >> What does a healthy lifestyle get you?

>> No pain in my bones.

The ability to um live life and not have

to depend on other people. So, h how

does it translate to I'm going to take autonomy and ownership of my body, my health, but I want to depend on a bank and a car dealership. >> That is true. That is true.

>> What is it about this journey that's that's harder than this one?

>> They both seem rooted in freedom,

autonomy. I think it's the being independent, being single, being responsible for

yourself. When you think, okay, I'm

going to take all of this extra and and pay it on this debt, then it takes it out. And I've heard this before, too, but it takes it away from being available for groceries, for because I depend on myself for all of those things. Mh.

>> Um, so it's it is that shift of using

the cash that you have to

pay off the debt, but then you may not have what you need for your necessities.

>> Oh, >> so budget oriented. >> That's a budget question that Yeah. I I love that you framed it up that way because I feel like now we're getting to the nitty-gritty. If we're budgeting properly, you're doing the other things out of um >> excess, right?

So, if you if you're starting with those four walls and you're like, "Hey, when I get paid, I know I'm paying for my rent. I know I'm paying for my utilities, my transportation, my food, and then on down that list of priorities, right?" And then if there's money left, okay, now I can do, yeah, now I'm going to go to the movies. I'm going to go, you know, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turt Turtles came out. I'm going to go see that, you know, and now you're able to do those things and actually feel a level of peace about it.

or you're able to say, I'm gonna take this extra money and I'm gonna throw it at this extra debt and I know I budgeted to do that and it's written on paper and I've done the math and I can feel good about that.

And I just want to hit this because I think it's worth noting and John was getting at this too. Um, I feel like your fear your fear is based on what if I don't do these things I want to do?

What if I what if I you know live my life and I don't you know take that trip or do but there's also a fear that should be considered of what if I don't do this plan what happens when I wake up at 50 and I still have the same debt only now it's higher because the interest you know stacked up. So allow yourself to play that out on both sides and I think that's going to inform what really matters to you and what truly the greater fear is. >> Um are you lonely?

>> I am single. I do have a German Shepherd dog. >> So, outstanding reflection. Are you

>> It is, isn't it? It's great. It's so great. >> You don't have to answer that. I spot there. It's a hard question. >> It's okay. It is a hard question. >> There is a depth to I want to hold on for this just in case. This just in case. What if they call? What if there's

an opportunity and spending or another

workout or another protein powder or I have a supplements not a not a cabinet I've got a supplement like clock like it's embarrassing right >> but that can all serve as a Xanax to

and so I wonder if you became with the same intentionality you are about fitness about taking care of yourself if you were that intentional about I'm going to put myself in positions where I'm going to meet other people and I can become a driver relationally and that will free up this what if what if I'm going to take the what if off the table and I'm going to start inviting people over. I'm going to get weird and awkward and ask people from work to come over.

at the root of that which is I need to hang on to some I'm not going to pay off this debt. I'm gonna try to get as much fun as as I can out of each moment because kind of all I've got and I've got to make manufacture my own fund through spending, through cars, whatever. >> Well, and you and with even the world that we live in right now, it's so hard to know, am I going to be here tomorrow?

>> Yeah. So, it's like if I have the opportunity to go on trips with, you know, with friends and and do all of these things, it's it's hard to say no to that to sitting at home and let me, you know, add this extra to this debt because I may not be here tomorrow. >> I think at the root of this, there's this like FOMO versus Jo, which is the joy of missing out. And when you're very clear in your goals, you're not like, "Oh man, I could have eaten seven pizzas tonight." Instead, you're like, "Man, I'm glad I took care of myself tonight.

I'm going to feel so good tomorrow." And so, to John's point, the chances of you dying tomorrow, slim to none. The chances of you staying the same in this sort of like mediocrity, not making financial progress, there's a high chance of that cuz that's how most of America lives. >> And so, you you've got to kind of choose your hard here and you're going to have to say no to the big trips.

And knowing that two years from now, it's going to look very different. And you get to define that later on, too, if you have that delayed gratification now.

So, beautiful question. Thanks for being Can I [laughter] Can I I got to flip this on its head for one second. And >> I'm nervous. >> Listen, I'm just going to go for it. Can I just state the obvious because here's here's what I'm thinking. >> The truth is, if you die tomorrow, you're going to be in heaven eating a sandwich. You're not going to be thinking, [laughter] "Oh my gosh, I DIDN'T CLIMB THAT MOUNTAIN WHEN I WAS ON EARTH." You're going to be in heaven like living it up.

>> Be meeting Jesus. You know what I'm saying? Like if anything, the other folks are going to be like, "Oh man, we miss her." Do you see what I'm saying?

Like you're thinking you're you're thinking that when you get to heaven, you're going to be thinking about all the things you missed out on earth.

That's not what's going to be happening.

And I think that's really worth you taking some time and thinking about this. This is not the home, right?

>> You know what I'm saying? Like this is the temporary. >> Yeah, for sure.

>> Beautifully said. Thank you for the question. Thank you for being here. Give it up for her. Thank you.

>> [applause] >> All right, we thought it'd be fun to play a little superlatives cuz as you guys know, we all have our personal brand listen to the show. That's a fancy word for most likely to >> you know when you were in high school senior superlatives >> most likely to I don't know for you it was probably run a marathon slash drop

out of college >> and you are you've never ran a marathon and you have like three master's degrees. >> Booyah. See, it worked out good.

>> Two PhDs. So, uh, we're going to have you guys vote, and this will also include Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz, who are not with us right now, but you're going to shout out who you think is most likely to do this thing. You with me?

>> All right, lightning round. Here we go.

Who is most likely to show up late to the studio?

>> That was too easy. Most likely to use a coupon at a restaurant or order a kids meal.

[laughter] >> That's hurtful, but true. Whoever wrote that, >> I've been with you when both things.

All right. Most likely to make a caller cry in a good way.

>> All right. I'm hearing a lot of John. A little bit of Rachel. Most likely to make a caller cry in a bad way.

>> Dave. All right.

Shout out to Dave. Just glad I wasn't in the running for that one.

>> All right, Jade, will you read a few of these off? Sure. I want to see what >> Let's see. Where'd you leave off here?

Number All right. Oh boy. Uh, number

four, get the giggles and not be able to recover. >> Rachel, >> that's easy. Giggly. Uh, leave their mic muted accidentally at the start of a

segment.

>> Ken. Wow. >> No, that's 100% me. >> I was going to say, I thought it was me.

That's great. I'm glad you didn't notice. All right. Uh, tell an 86y old

to get a job. Who would do that? Who

would? Heartless. Who ever would do that? That's not even That's a hypothetical. >> Use the word hemorrhoids on a call with a 52year-old mom. [laughter]

>> Oh boy. Oh, this one's good. Ask for a bottle of Tums.

>> Coleman. He loves He gets a little heartburn after an intense call and go, I got to get a bottle of Tums.

>> Yeah, that was a good That was good.

>> I've been working on my cannon breath. Thank you. >> That was good.

>> Oh my gosh. innocently dropped the worst

innuendos on air without realizing it.

>> Ken Coleman. >> Oh, I was going to say Dave.

>> Oh, Dave has done that. >> Listen, >> we call him kenuendos. Here's the thing.

You got Ken is like the most thoughtful

person and the most compassionate and he's the most like decor, right? There's a way you talk to people, especially when you're being a professional, and it just comes out. >> Yeah, it does. >> It's awesome. That's a good one.

>> And what's awesome about James and his team, literally, you can say something

and you can watch the show one the co-host will just look over at the booth >> and by the time the segment is over, our phones are already buzzing, someone's turned it into a meme and the whole company has it. It's awesome. >> Oh yeah, that's my favorite thing to do is when somebody says something sideways, I love just looking at James like, "Did you hear what I heard?" >> That's half my job now is just keeping track of a quote book of what you guys say.

>> I love it. All right, let's get to some more live questions. Let's see who we have next. We've got Is there a Jean Pierre in the crowd?

>> Hey, >> John Pierre, >> you in for coolest, fanciest name today so far. >> Thank you. >> All right. Where are you from? >> Uh, I live here in Orlando, Florida.

>> Wonderful. >> Thanks for being here. What's your question? >> Thank you. It's a privilege to be here.

Uh, just a little context. So, I've heard of Ramsay when I first graduated from college like seven years ago. So I didn't know anything about f finances till a buddy told me about Ramsay and like wow this is actually something you don't learn this stuff in high school and uh fast forward several years in the future now I guess I recently graduated from grad school in May and uh in that

time leading up to grad school you know we didn't have a lot of money we were saving up so I could go to grad school my wife and I and now it's done and now

that we are done you know we're on baby step I have we're very blessed, my wife and I, we have two kids. Um, how do we

grapple with the poverty mindset now that we are out of that now?

>> I love that question.

>> Well, Jade, you've been writing about this, haven't you? I mean, you got >> uh Yeah, you know, yes. Um, I have been

writing not specifically about this, though. Um, but I do like this question because I I feel like I understand it and I feel like it's relying on I kind of have like this checklist that I go through mentally cuz I feel that like there's times where Sam will want to do something and I'm like freaking out like why would he want to spend this money or vice versa and it is it's like your mind goes back to a mode from the past that's no longer the case, right? Yeah.

>> And it's like if I do this it could throw everything off the rails, right?

And so I kind of go through this checklist where I'm like, "Okay, am I it's it's what I call a financially responsible adult checklist." So it's it's five questions to ask yourself and it's based on the baby steps, right? So you're asking yourself, okay, wait a minute, am I on a budget? Like, am I utilizing my budget every single month?

I'm still doing my thing on that green light, right? Then the next question is, am I out of debt? And is what I'm wanting to do going to put me in debt?

No, it's not going to put me in debt. I'm still out of debt. Okay. Yeah, that's great. All right. Am I a person who uh values it saving? Am I saving in

all the right ways? Right? Do I have my emergency fund? Is this going to affect my emergency fund? Is it going to affect my 15% that I'm investing? Is it going to affect me, you know, putting more money on my house, which is a forced savings account? If the answer is no, that's a green light, right? Like, okay, I can spend this money. Then you're asking yourself, am I carrying the proper insuranceances, right? Is this do did I do everything that I was taught?

Do I carry my term life policy all you know do I have the right coverage on my home and my auto green light yes I do and then finally am I still a person who's valuing and prioritizing generosity and is this going to affect where that stands in my life and if the answer is no you've got five green lights that are showing you I have proven that I am a financially responsible adult and this is the guiding principle I'm not sacrificing that in any way and if that's true listen [clears throat] get into get involved.

And I think when you do that, it reminds you of what's kind of what John was saying earlier. It it reminds you of what's actually true about the situation. Everything's not on fire.

You're not going to screw up your life.

You're not going to go back to, you know, the hard place you were in before.

And that's really good to to remind yourself of that from time to time.

>> What was uh childhood like for you financially? >> Uh I didn't come from any money. My parents are two immigrants that came here with two suitcases and I was born here and I got to live out the American dream. >> I love that. That's cool. >> That's amazing. Awesome. [applause] But >> what what's a practical way you feel like you're still in that poverty mindset? Like what's something recent that's happened where you're like, man, why can't I I can't click out of this mode? >> I think it's you you guys always say

there's a spender and a saver. I always have that saver mentality and I probably

comes back from childhood that uh scarcity mentality and just I don't know fighting against that. I want to challenge you on that. If if in your situation the way you grew up it's not a mentality. It's wired into your nervous system. It's it's life or death. Right?

You grew up in a home where two people said we're going to make a run of it. We got two suitcases and that's all we got.

Right? So this it's easy to beat yourself up like I just need to change my mentality. This is in you. And so

it's got to be something that you're going to have to feel like I feel my body trying to take care of me. It's been to the other side where we got nothing right. And I have to know that's

not true. And so I'm gonna I'm gonna not just like try to think my way through it or change my mentality. I'm gonna practice. I'm gonna put like we talked earlier like I'm gonna put money in the budget that we are gonna just literally

go blow. We're gonna go have fun. We're gonna go dancing and before we go I'm

going to feel uncomfortable and that's okay. And then I'm going to go do it anyway. And what you'll teach your body over time. It's like the like the Instagram memes like how do I get more confident? Like you just got to feel confident. No, that's so stupid. You got to go do things and be successful and teach your body confidence, right? And so I'm going to teach my body it used to be and now it is. We weren't safe and

now we are. And a lot of firstgen folks

who find that follow this Ramsey plan, I hear there's also this quiet, sometimes

loud, often quiet voice of guilt.

>> Yes. >> Why me? And it's not fair. It It's like

joy is some zero. If I have joy, it somehow takes from somebody else. And that's not how joy works, man. Joy lifts everybody, right? And so it's being really grateful about what happened and then I'm gonna go practice. We're gonna be super generous and it's practice this

and come back in five years, man. You're going to have like a feather boa and you're going to be like, "What up? It's going to be awesome, man." [laughter] >> Have you used the word subconsciously, well, I don't deserve that.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, a way that I fought against that is to literally put it in the budget and use my accountability partner, my wife, to force me to go, hey, do you actually spend that money on that thing that you were scared to spend it on, that hobby that you want to invest in, that purchase, the experience? Do you have a thing in mind that you're like, that just takes my breath away a little bit to put the money there?

>> Nothing off the top of my mind right now, but yeah, instances like that come up. >> Does your wife have those things? And you've said, I don't think we can do that right now.

Absolutely. >> I'm really really proud of you.

>> That's awesome. >> You changed your family. >> I'm so proud of you, man. Thank you for being here. >> Thank you, guys. [applause] >> All right, we got another question here from Miguel.

>> How can I prepare myself at uh 19 years old to buy a house?

>> You're 19? >> Yes, sir. You got a full beard, bro.

>> Thank you. Listen, thicker than [laughter] >> George, puberty is coming. Just keep praying. >> They keep saying that. Hang in there.

Hang in there, George. [laughter] >> Oh my goodness. Okay, so you're 19. You got some goals? >> Yes. >> Are you working full-time? What's your situation? You in school?

>> No, I'm not in school. So, uh, my my family owns a a food truck for a long time, and I've always worked with them since I got out of high school. And so he pays me a salary and I also do like uh I guess hobbies that I I get I get some good money from weekly.

>> Some side hustles. >> Yes. >> Okay. What do you want to be doing long term? >> I'd really like to open up my own food truck and eventually a a restaurant and just be my own my own boss. And I've always liked customer service and serving people food. So that's that's my passion. I really >> You're 19. >> Yes, sir.

>> [applause] >> I'm just >> I was just trying to get somebody to go on a date with me when I was 19.

>> Hold on. Did you have a childhood or was it like I'm 12 and working in the food truck? Like you grew up fast, didn't you? Okay. So, your next goal is to buy a house. Uh, I I I think about, you

know, long a long long-term goal and I

think I'd love to, you know, get into a

marriage with a house or getting into uh

a house like I that that's my goal, you know, before before I get married or, you know, a couple years after I get married, I'd like to have a a house.

>> Can I ask why that is for you? Is it a security thing? Is it a wealth building thing? Is it a nobody in my family ever owned a house thing?

It's a It's a security thing and and also wealth building because I just I really like the the idea of having something that's mine. >> I love that. Do you have any debt? Did you?

>> No. >> No. No. I mean, I got a credit card when I was like 18 and then I cut it up after watching your video.

You cut it up when you was 18 yesterday. [laughter] >> All right. That's fantastic. You're doing great.

How much do you have in savings?

now. >> Good. >> Fantastic. Great job. >> Okay. So, you're working on the emergency fund. That's great. That's baby step three. And then beyond that, you could be in baby step 3B or four.

It's kind of a choose your own adventure if you want to stack up cash. I would say at 19, there's no reason you should go get a fourbedroom house tomorrow. Um, but I would work towards that and just stacking cash like keep living on less than you make. Do you have any fun hobbies that aren't side hustles that bring in income?

>> Um, I'm I'm working on it. Like hobbies like that don't include like uh making money just >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, in the hospitality world, like you're just like, I'm working 14our days, then I go to bed and wake up and redo.

So, I'm just trying to make sure that you live life as a 19-year-old, too. >> Cuz it's hard to meet a lady other than, you know, a customer at the food truck when you're in the food truck for 14 hours a day, >> right? Yeah. I'm working on that.

I'm doing like, you know, kaying.

>> Cool. Good gosh. If there's any single people here, he'll be outside in the parking lot when the show is over.

>> Okay. So my temptation for to tell him

this is the moment he found somebody,

the moment they got married, they're going to want their place and she's going to want input on that place. Like a wife someday. I would love to see you have your own food truck >> that you own outright. Like so I'm going to start investing in this. Not so I have stability like I get I get I want to have roots and this is mine. But I have found buying a house with my wife is a thing that we do together. It's a tree that we plant.

>> Whereas and not to say if you're single you shouldn't buy a house. That's not what I'm saying at all. But like at 19, >> right? >> But man, if you have that degree in whatever or in your case, I've got my food truck. I own it outright. Nobody owns Miguel. Yeah. >> And I'm a provider. I'm here. And that

to me feels where I would direct a 19-year-old. >> Yeah. I guess I'm not worried that you're going to get a house. Like, dude, you're so incredible that I'm like, sure, we'll save up and get you a good down payment, get a 15-year mortgage, 25% your take-home pay.

I have all the faith you're going to do that. And so, to John's point, I would be focusing on how am I going to build a sustainable career for myself where I own it. And man, that food truck's going to cost a pretty penny cuz I know you're paying cash. >> Yes.

>> What's that going to cost to get your own food truck up and running? The whole thing.

>> Yeah. >> What's that going to cost? >> If I build it myself and use like uh my father's business name and just make like a part two, it's like $15,000 $16,000. If I want to buy it from a dealer, like 22, $25,000 brand new.

>> I like investing in like a 401 Miguel for the next 3 years. >> Yes. >> Thank you. >> You know what I'm saying?

Like, >> yeah, compound growth. You have all the time on your side. If you didn't start till 25 investing and working on the house, you'd still retire a multi multi multi-mill millionaire. So, what I don't want you to do is get the house and you're tied up and you're working on maintenance, repairs, and you don't have the money for the food truck and you're going to take on a loan cuz you think it'll pay off and work out.

I think it's just going to add stress to your life. And so, to John's point, I always love when young people just invest in themselves, especially people as sharp as you, that I'm like, I'm not worried about the income and the money. Like, you have an amazing work ethic. You're living on less than you make.

You're staying out of debt. And so I would focus on career at this point. And this is your college except instead of paying money to a college, you're making money and using it to invest in yourself. So man, I'm so proud of you.

>> This guy's incredible. Give it up for him. >> Thank you.

>> All right, man. I'm inspired. You guys are incredible. All right, we're going to play >> such a bum at 19.

>> I know. That's right. >> Yeah. I'm just like, dude, what were we doing at 19? A, I was staring in the mirror wondering, will I ever get a beard? No, >> I was taking out student loans.

[laughter] >> I was in an indie band and working at the Apple store. So, yeah, Miguel's crushing all of us. >> He is. He is. Good job, Miguel.

>> All right. If you uh listen to the radio show for some time, you know that we've had some great moments on air. Some hilarious calls, some crazy calls, some heartbreaking calls. And so, we're going to play a little game. We're going to play two truths in a lie, but with Ramsay show Call. So, we're going to tell you the the headline of the call that we actually took on air, but one of them was not a real call. Okay, you ready to play? So, I'm going to do ABC.

Tell me which one is the lie. A, is it

okay to work as a stripper if I'm making good money to put toward my debt snowball? B, I'm allergic to budgeting.

I break out in hives. Or is it C, I have

35 credit cards?

I'm hearing a lot of B. Is that fair?

>> I break out in hives. >> That's the lie. >> That was the lie.

>> I don't think we've taken that call where someone has a physical reaction.

>> Interesting. >> But the the stripper call was you and John. >> That was one of the calls like on the way home I was like, I think we actually helped somebody today. >> All right, next one. [laughter] >> Which one is the lie? A, my husband's been hiding $15,000 in the closet. B, my

husband is having sleepovers at his ex-girlfriend's house. Or is it C, my twin sister stole my identity?

>> Oh.

Very mixed crowd on this one. I heard a lot of A's. Make some noise if you think it's A is the lie.

>> Okay, make some noise. Think B is the lie about the sleepovers at ex-girlfriends. Make some noise if you think it's C. Twin sister stole the identity. [cheering] >> That's pretty split. Okay, it's C. My

twin sister stole my identity. We did not take that call, unfortunately. >> That would be a great call. But Deloney took them. My husband's been hiding 15 grand in the closet. [laughter] >> I remember that. >> I guess there's worse problems to have.

Like, I just found out there's all savings lying around. I'm like, all right. [laughter] >> Well, there's tons of wives that were like, really? Do you got them?

>> Better than finding you got 15 grand in debt. You know, >> the question is, what was he using the money for or going to use the money for?

>> Listen, George, that's where the call is. >> It's all coming down. We got to have 15,000 of cash. Hey, who who was the uh

who took the call about >> the ex-girlfriend? >> That was Dave. >> I was going to say that was an old one.

>> Old school Dave call when he was solo.

>> Uh my husband's having his ex-girlfriends. Yeah, we got to go Google that. By the way, you can literally just type all these into YouTube and find them later for your own enjoyment. All right, next one. Which one's the lie? A, I make $700,000 a

year, but I'm miserable. B, I was scammed by a NASCAR impersonator. Or C, my daughter embezzled $80,000 from our business. >> Oo.

>> B, I was scammed by a NASCAR impersonator. Happy to tell you that was a real >> I was on that call. I remember that. >> Tony and I were on that call.

>> I believe that >> it was a lot of money he gave this guy.

Uh, no. The lie was a I make $700,000 a year, but I'm miserable. >> Oh, interesting. >> A very believable call. >> It is >> over the NASCAR impersonator. So, if you ever get a Facebook message from a NASCAR driver, just know you're about to get scammed.

All right, next one. My ex-wife and baby mama are now friends. Our kids sports are costing us 20 grand a year and we're 150 grand in debt. >> I believe that. >> Or C, we haven't paid our bills in six years. Which one is the lie?

>> You guys could not be more wrong. A and C are real calls. B, our kids sports are costing us 20 grand a year. We're 150 grand a day. 50,000. Come on, y'all.

>> Yeah, it's way more than that for kids sports. All right, our next lineup.

Which one's the lie? A, my friend wants me to spend three grand for her bachelorette trip. How do I tell her no?

B, should I give my misbehaving spouse an allowance? And C, we're homeless and it's my wife's fault.

>> Once again, you guys couldn't We really planted these. Well, it's a my friend wants me to spend three grand for a bachelor, but I feel like we've taken very similar. [laughter] >> I took that call. James did his dirty on that one. >> James, wait a second.

[laughter] >> Yeah, Deloney was on the should I give my misbehaving spouse an allowance. I just don't like the word allowance on a grown adult. I don't even like it on kids. Honestly, >> I don't like the phrase my misbehaving adult.

>> Yeah, >> that's how they titled it. It may not be their words, but there we go. >> No, that's literally what they said. >> Oh. >> Oh gosh, we got problems.

>> I think of Austin Powers, like the O behave. Behave.

>> Next one. Which one's the lie? A. I inherited $1.25 million from my boss. B,

I spent almost $500,000 on med school and didn't pass the boards. Or C, I have rats living in my walls and my landlord won't do anything about it.

>> C is what was what was B?

>> I spent almost 500 grand on med school, didn't pass. >> I remember that. I was on that. >> Well, Dave took that one. I think it's an old school Dave call.

>> I took I inherited 1.25 million from my boss. >> I had questions. >> Yeah, that's I got >> What's your relationship like? Uh-huh.

>> with the boss. >> Makes you wonder. >> What do you think we'll inherit from our boss? >> Precisely. Zero dollars. >> Precisely. [laughter] >> Yeah. He's like, you are inheriting. It's called a salary. You work.

>> Congratulations on the inheritance.

Rachel's not here to defend herself.

>> Okay.

>> All right. Let's get to another live question. What's your first name? Where you from? >> Uh, I'm Doug and I'm from New York, but I moved to Florida like 10 years ago.

>> Cool. >> Um, my question is, uh, I'm engaged. Me

and my fiance are going to be married hopefully by September. I just opened up an LLC and we want to know how to the

best method for combining finances. We

have shared goals. We're already in premarital counseling. So, if you could

give me some tips on stuff maybe we wouldn't get from practical or traditional advice, that'd be great.

>> September of next year.

>> Yes. Like 2026.

>> Is she here? >> I played the fifth.

I'm just telling you right now, I'll perform the ceremony right now if you want to just do it. >> He's done it. No, we're huge fans of your show every Monday, Wednesday.

>> We get married today. >> I would love it. AR, would you?

[cheering] >> I don't think it's going to happen. >> I was going to say you did roll right here. >> You did roll in here short. >> No, y'all do the plan you had planned.

[laughter] >> Do the plan you had planned.

>> What we thought it'd be >> that would have been epic. So, you want you want untraditional advice on how to combine finances?

>> Yes, please. Or like the best >> you know how untraditional it is to combine finances.

>> It's so we get so much hate for telling people, "Hey, what if you had like a joint checking account?" >> No. My [laughter] independence. So, I'll just tell you what my wife and I did. I had a checking account. She had a checking account. We moved the money into mine and made it a joint account.

Kept my account number and she shut hers down. We have a joint high yield savings account. And that's it. Now, as far as the business goes, is she part of the business?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Then she should be on the business accounts as well. You have a business checking, business savings.

>> We got to open that up. And I'm doing the work. She's just like helping me with all the admin stuff, which sounds horrible. I just realized.

[laughter] >> No, I said doing all the work. >> I'm doing all the work. Yeah. No, I get it.

>> That's what I'm not. >> Yeah. This lady over here is going to come after you if we're not careful.

>> I was going to say here's some untraditional advice. >> Yeah. >> Don't combine money until you're married. >> Okay. And here's why. It's not like a like a church answer. I can make a case for that, [clears throat] >> but this is a and again, I'm only saying this. I think y'all are going to go be married for 75 years. You're going to live to be 140 years old. It's going to be awesome. Yeah. >> But if you're married and you end up not

making it, there is a legal process for dividing assets. If you're just dating

or or you're engaged and y'all start mixing stuff up, it is a nightmare to

untangle it. >> Should we do a pre- prenup on that?

>> I wouldn't. >> Okay. >> What's a pre-prenup? >> I don't know. I thought that'd be something [laughter] >> just making up new legal tools.

>> Yeah. >> I I would I would have an LLC in your name and you 1099 her and you pay her.

>> Yeah. >> As an employee. Well, I heard Dave Ramsey uh or it was you, John. Uh one

caller didn't know where her husband was spending the money and immediately I was like, Ari, you got to know. I want you to know every dollar that comes in, which isn't a lot right now, so it's easy. But [laughter] like, >> no, >> you can tell her though. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, all right. So, I'll tell her and then once we're married, then we do it. But like, cuz we heard a lot of different ones where like we live off one person's salary and invest the other.

like is there a way have you guys ever heard of that?

>> There's really no benefit of doing that because when it's combined it's it's both people's salary. So then the question is well what are we trying to accomplish? Are we trying to invest and then we if we are then yeah we're taking 15% of our money and doing it like that.

Now mathematically it could work out to end up being oh that happens to be the amount of money that you make but that's just kind of a coincidence at that point. So, it's really looking at the whole and saying what baby step are we on and then what amount of our money does it require to accomplish that baby step. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> I can't tell you the importance of changing from mine and yours to ours.

>> Oh, we're all about that. I got debtree because of you guys. I got my >> No, you got debtree because of you, brother. It's awesome. It's awesome. No.

Um I had one line you said that stuck with me. my we were just dating then and she was going through a lot and I just said what can I do to help you feel supported game changer we're engaged now

[laughter] >> she said put a ring on it that made me feel supported and he did way to go man >> thank you very much guys >> yeah we're rooting for you >> congrats brother >> all right let's get to some more fishbowl questions James where' the fishbowl go John has it okay let's pull a few more out John >> if you weren't doing this job what career would you want instead?

>> I know mine. >> What's that? >> Um, >> the singing chef.

>> Uh, well, I already did the entertainment thing. I'd be a chef. I'd open a restaurant.

>> You got a name for it yet, or you not want to leak it? >> Miguel's Food Truck Incorporated.

[laughter] >> I have some ideas, but I'm not ready to share them tonight.

>> Okay, so we got Chef >> George. What would you And I like the way it says it. What would you want instead?

What would I want instead? I mean, I think right now there's probably some gaps in the late night show host uh field. So, I'd probably put my hat in the ring, you know, it just feels fun.

You like the writers write and I do the monologue. I interview some celebrities.

We have a good time. Sneak in some personal finance advice in doing that.

>> You know, just give people some hope. And part of that is comedy and part of it is encouragement and fighting against cynicism and nihilism, which is what we're up against with young people today. So that's what I I think I would attempt to do. I'd probably it would really really be a YouTube channel. TV doesn't exist anymore. [laughter]

>> What would you do?

>> Man, [clears throat] walking into this room like into this this is like an old like a rock club, right? Like walking into this room reminded me like when I was 19, I so badly wanted to be the lead singer of like a punk rock band that would fill out rooms like this and just have chaotic evenings and then just go to the next town. So, I'd want to do that, but after the last year or two, if I could make a living traveling the country as a stand-up comic, that'd be a fun That's just a That's a super fun time.

>> Fantastic. Okay. >> Do you have a frugal habit you'll never give up? George's entire life.

>> Oh, man. So, I mean, all of them, but namely after being in Chicago two days ago, now Orlando, I will circle for parking for a good 15 minutes. If I'm

with my wife, 10. If it's just me, 15.

And I'm willing to walk at least a half mile to get free parking over a paid lot. That's my frugal habit.

>> That's good. >> And I stand by that. I will not be bullied by the parking lots. [laughter] >> Oh man.

>> Are you like, I've never been frugal.

>> Yeah.

I can think of one. Um I hate throwing away food. I mean, I'll I'll [laughter]

I've been known to eat some questionable food in the refrigerator just to make sure it doesn't go in the garbage. I am I am the garbage disposal. [laughter] Listen, 11 days doesn't phase me. I will get into it. >> Oh my gosh. >> What' you say? >> I said 11 days doesn't fase me. Like

lasagna. Come on. It's the gift that keeps on giving. >> George is changing color right next to you. [laughter] >> Dude, I'm like 3 days on my >> No, most things are good. like seven to 10 Jesus 3 days to rise from the dead. I think we can throw away the food now. Like >> no man, that >> George throws it away 48 hours before the expiration date. >> That's what the microwaves are for. They >> food poisoning once to go never again.

Never again. [laughter] >> A frugal habit I will never give up. I guess man,

I have a thing where cars and trucks and

clothes and shoes, the price of those

things is frozen in my head at the age of 20. [laughter] And I remember buying a truck that I could not afford for $17,000 when I was 20. And I went to get a truck a few

months ago and I looked at the guy and I was like, "You need to go in the parking lot and set yourself on fire for just like and so it stuck in my head." And I think the habit I would give up I went ahead and bought the truck cuz I I'm insecure. But I like the habit I'll

never give up is like dramatic exasperated dad anger over

the cost of everything. [laughter] >> That's my habit. >> That's strong. All right, pass it down to Jade because I don't want this lady to yell at us.

All right, here we go. Uh, what did what do you

think your life would look like if you weren't following the baby steps? What a

great question. Um, I've thought about

this actually many times. So, because of CO specifically, cuz when CO happened, I

remember looking at Sam being like, I'm so grateful that we did the baby steps and I'm so grateful we're debtree and we don't, you know, are everything is safe like we can cuz I told you entertainment shut down. Um, so without it, listen, I

don't even know. Number one, I hate to say this, but we may have gone through a time where we literally would have been like homeless and had to live with our parents. Um, but neither of us can live with our parents, [laughter] so we might have chosen like that street life. >> Dad, homeless. We'll take a seat.

>> Yeah. Listen, it wouldn't have been good. Um, terrible. >> Yeah. I'm trying to picture like going through it like I probably have bought too much house too soon. 30-year mortgage going, "Well, I guess I'll be, you know, 60 when that's paid off." Probably would like be leasing like the newest Tesla like it's an iPhone upgrade. Uh, I'd be finessing credit card points and convincing myself that I'm the smartest one.

>> Bragging about like the hotel I got for free, not realizing that I spent 60 grand to get that free hotel. So, I'd probably be like just that insufferable bro who like >> you have a mustache in a mustache.

Really tighter jeans than you have on right now. >> Yeah, probably uh probably still single.

I think fiscal responsibility is one of my only attractive traits at this point.

So, I think that helped get my wife.

See, I would just be an insurreable guy bragging about how I'm like I'm finessing the system, but secretly I'd be stressed out. >> I would be uh no question. I would I

would be institutionalized. I'd be insane.

That's not me making a joke. I'd be insane. >> I hear you. like I I owed so much and

every second >> there were these hounds that were coming after me and it was I was such an an

insane anxious mess and my life was so

out of control. The most frustrating thing for me as a as a like as a scientist, as a as a guy who did research for years, and as a professor, was to meet this guy named Dave who came up with a neuroscientifically accurate plan to pay off your debt, but also reclaim stability in your nervous system. And so like following that plan

also got me into a gym and it also got

me into a therapist and it also got me like sitting down across from my wife saying like we can choose a better marri like all those things. Um because it

gave me it gave me freedom and that

allowed me to take a deep breath and then think about what was next. So yeah, I'd definitely be not allowed out in public.

>> I love that. Yeah. I found like when people do their debt free scream, one of my favorite things is like they're like, "Oh, and I lost 50 pounds and my marriage got better." Like there's something where discipline begets discipline. And what I love about the debtree scream is yes, you got out of debt.

That's great. But it makes you realize how much agency you have over your life. >> Yeah. >> And once you have that, you're like, what else can't why can't I have a better marriage?

Why can't I have a better career? And so that's one of my favorite things about the baby steps is it's really just like a little hack to realize that you have more control than you think. >> That's awesome. >> Well said.

All right.

[laughter] >> Tell them about the game.

>> The game? >> It's time they can know. >> What game? You guys play a game without me? >> No. You and Ken taught me the game.

>> Oh, like the Ramsay after dark.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> What we would have said. >> Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay.

>> What we wanted to say. what you muttered under your breath in the car that you couldn't say to your kids.

>> That's kind of what we do during the breaks is the real talk that we're like just the frustration, the anger, the hilarious thing that we could have said but may have been inappropriate.

[laughter] >> Well, I thought it would be fun uh to end the night with something that is one of our favorite moments on the show and that is the debtree scream. Can we end with that? >> All right. We have someone that we've hand selected who we think would be a wonderful way to end the night. Would you help us welcome Jessica to the debtree stage? [cheering] Give it up for Jessica.

[applause] >> All right, Jessica. This is a different debtree scream. >> Um, yes. Yes, it is.

>> You look here like you're having an out-of- body experience.

>> Mhm. Yep. >> How much debt did you pay off? >> Um, I paid off $127,611.

[cheering] >> Let's go. [applause] >> Okay. 127. What kind of debt was that?

>> Oh, um, most of it was graduate school loans. I also had, um, a car loan, medical debt, and credit cards.

>> Wow. >> Little pop parade. >> Yep. Oh, and I, um, cash flowed in emergency appendecttomy as well.

>> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Nothing stopping you now.

>> Not anymore. >> What was your What was the grad degree for? >> Um, I got my masters in international affairs. >> Wonderful. What do you do for work?

Right now I work for Grantsson Research for a local law enforcement agency in Tampa. >> Very cool. Thank you. >> Okay. How long did it take to pay off? Was that 127 grand? You said >> 127,000. Yeah. It took me just shy of 5 years. >> Wow. Holy >> smokes. Okay. And what was your range of income during that time? >> Started at 43 and ended at 72 at that time. >> Wow. >> You're amazing.

>> That is impressive. >> You're amazing.

>> Wow. >> Like how how did you >> You lived on nothing. >> Like were you selling stuff? for their side hustles. >> Um, >> how much did you sell that appendix for?

>> Listen, if I could have No, um, I did do

a couple side hustles. Um, there was a a limited option for overtime at my work.

Um, so I did tap into that. Um, I did do a side gig of grant writing. I also did a lot of dogs sitting over the course of that time. I did get a promotion and that's why it it jumped up. Um, that was about two years ago, so about halfway through. But yes. Yeah. Um, but honestly, living way below my means,

like honestly, all that budget is key.

If you're not on it, get on it. Um, but living below my means was incredible.

Um, having really understanding family and friends that when I said I couldn't go out to eat, but can we do a potluck?

>> Um, you know, that sort of thing.

>> What got you on the Ramsay plan to begin with? Um, so around COVID, um, I hadn't heard

of y'all quite yet, but we started getting these checks from the government for different things and people were buying Pelatons and water coolers and I didn't want any of that. Um, I had a lot of anxiety for my school loans and I just started to, you know, Pinterest getting out of debt cuz I'm that's my generation. >> That's fantastic. Okay, so you get on a plan and you're making, you know, 43 grand and you're like, "All right, let's start cleaning up a six-figure mess here." >> Yep.

started I started with the checks with my car and then I snowballed my credit card, my medical debt and then I had three different student loans. Um, two of them were federal.

not have a pause on it. So I just had to flow that through. >> You just plowed through that thing. So 5 years is a long journey man and Jade and her husband Sam it was like seven years because with a whole bunch of debt almost half a million like speak to the person who has that longer journey ahead of them who's like I two years sure but five I can't stick it out that long.

>> Yeah. Um it was just shy it was 3 months shy of 5 years. So um I completely understand that mentality. Um it was hard but I had I think I think it maybe was you Jade on the call. you're going to be somewhere in 5 years, where do you want to be? And I really wanted to be debtree. I did not want to live the life that I was living. So, I was like, what needs to be true for me to get there?

>> I love that. That Listen, you've got the mindset. I'm curious cuz you like we're kindred spirits on this. What was the craziest thing that you did to that you were like, I don't care. I'll do it if I have to get out. Was it something you cut from your budget? Was it a job you did? >> Um, yes. Um, okay. So, it does have to

do with the appendecttomy. So, I was dogsitting at the time >> and I was at I was at work at my day job and I went to the gym and I was like, "Something doesn't feel right. I think I ate too many chips, not that." Um, it

turned out that I needed to go to the hospital, but I was dogsitting and I was like, "If I if this is what I think it is, I'm not coming home." And I really don't want to lose this money, this tip.

So, I went back, walked the dog, figured out everything with the dog, and then drove myself to the hospital. >> To the hospital to walk the dog? >> Well, I didn't go to the hospital first. I went, you know, >> you waited >> knowing that this was like exploding inside of you and you're like, we got to walk the dog.

>> I need to walk the dog so the dog doesn't explode inside my house. >> I wasn't going to get the full amount cuz I wasn't going to stay, you know, for the agreed upon time, but I really I really wanted that tip.

>> Yeah, that any chance you're around 19 or 20 years old?

>> Me? No. >> Sorry, Miguel. I tried, brother.

>> Dang it. [laughter] >> [applause] >> This was feeling like a like perfect.

>> Set you up, brother. So, you had some cheerleaders. You said friends, family.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, my family was really supportive, specifically my parents, um, and my siblings and their families. Um, and then I got connected to a really good group at my church. Um, some of my work family supported me as well. So, >> I love it. So, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is out of all that stuff you did? man. I mean, aside from the budget, you have to know your why. Um, unless you have a bigger

why of of getting out. And for me, it was just I knew what I wanted to I knew what I wanted my 30s to look like and it didn't want to be beholden to the man. I wanted to be free for the generosity that we've talked about and just the the bigger plans of doing whatever I want.

So, I kept that in mind when the times were hard. >> Wow. You're an inspiration.

>> I love it. Amazing.

Let's get to the moment we've all been waiting for. You ready?

>> This is a special debtree scream cuz usually the person doing the scream has like seven people in the lobby. You get 300 new best friends to cheer you on.

>> All right, it's Jessica from Florida.

$127,000 paid off in 5 years. Three months less

than 5 years to be exact. Making 43 to 72.

>> Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. 3 2 1 GOD PROVIDES. I'M DEBTREE.

[music]

[applause]

>> We got the disco lights out here for you. That's something different.

>> Okay. Thank you so much, Jessica. We've got a parting gift for you. We're going to gift you a year of every dollar premium. The all new one that coaches you along this baby steps journey. That was a key to your your debtfree journey.

And uh I feel bad doing that in front of all these people.

So I feel like we should give it to more people. Don't you think we should give it to a few more people? Okay.

>> Look under your seat. We've got a year of every dollar premium for everybody in here tonight. >> Yay. >> No, that's for real. Look under your seat. It's seriously there. This is our Oprah moment. Congratulations.

>> It's taped under your chairs, guys.

You're all getting one year of our allnew Every Dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app now. We just released the newest version. >> Yeah. >> That will coach you guys along the journey. It's got uh digital coach experience recommendations. You got group coaching. So that's our gift to you to say thank you for being a part of our live audience tonight.

>> Give it to someone if you already have it. >> Guys, this has been so fun. Did you guys have a good time being a part of Ramsey Show Live? [cheering]

[applause] I'm inspired by you all tonight. the way you're living out the Ramsay plan, the dreams you have, the visions you have for your life, the people you want to become, the people you've transformed into already. Like, it's just it gives me hope for America, that we're going to be okay because of people like you who decided I have agency over my life. That's what this represents tonight. So, thank you guys so much for being here.

And hey, um I'm just going to say this

as directly as I can. I'm not I'm not trying to be silly, but like right now

leaving your house and joining a room full of strangers on a shared mission is

an act of courage. And I want to thank everybody who came out and who said, "I'm going to go into a room and meet a bunch of new people and hang out with a group of people that we listen to and we're going to get to see them and experience them." Thank y'all for being brave. Thank you for being courageous.

this right here, leaving your homes and being around like-minded people that share the same mission as you. Um, that's how this whole thing changes. And so, thank you'all for leaving your homes and coming and being a part of this tonight. It's awesome. [applause and cheering] >> You guys are incredible. Thank you, Orlando. We love you guys. Have a great night. [music]

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## 228. The Ramsey Show on Tour in Denver | May 15, 2026


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[music]

Cliff and I have been married for 2 years now. We currently reside in [music] the house that Cliff used to share with his ex-wife.

>> Do you want to sell it or do you want to burn it to the ground?

>> Should the guy [music] pay for all the dates or is there ever a time to split it? >> You asked [music] her out, you pay.

>> He put it on credit cards that I'm now paying for.

>> Sir, you're done. You don't get to talk anymore. >> How do couples continue to stay aligned over time when one [music] spouse is more financially anxious than the other?

>> If you're scared, can you blink twice?

[laughter] >> Have you ever seen somebody for anxiety?

>> No. I like myself the way I am.

>> Wow. You know what? I actually believe you. We've both been kind of slowly putting our finances together, but you're not married. Wrap it up, homie.

[music] [cheering]

>> [cheering] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life. From the Ramsey Network, brought to you by Fair Winds Credit Union, live from [music] Denver, Colorado, this is the Ramsay

Show. [cheering and music]

YEAH.

OH, TO all these lovely people in the room and of course those watching wherever you're watching, however you're watching, welcome to this special tour edition of the Ramsay Show. So excited to be here and we're going to get right to it. It's the Ramsay Show except there's no phone calls. They are live in the room.

The good news is we can't hang up on them. The bad news is we can't hang up on them. Your personal brand is on the line. And by the way, I meant to mention when I got so excited when we started the show, >> what happened, Kim?

I didn't I didn't introduce you guys.

John thought I was talking about him.

Give Jade [laughter] some love.

>> I love it. I love it. [cheering] >> The handsome, the wise.

>> George Camel, ladies and gentlemen. [laughter] I mean John Deloney. I'm sorry. Dr. John Deloney. >> We get mixed up a lot. We get mixed up a lot. >> It's an uncanny resemblance. >> I know. >> And I'm Dave Ramsey. No, I'm Ken Coleman. It's exciting. Exciting to be here. Okay, we have a couple up here.

Okay, so I've got Cheryl and Clifton.

Not the big red dog.

>> No, I love that. Okay, >> that's Clifford. Ken. >> That's Clifford.

>> Close enough. >> That's like Mont Peelier. >> Well, I just >> That's like George Camel, dude. This thing's falling off. [laughter] >> I know. Yeah, I probably didn't get enough sleep last night. Sorry, Clifton.

[laughter] You're a dog. D A WG. Okay, Cheryl,

what's the question? We have a little debate going on. We're hoping you guys >> Are we settling a debate as in maybe like we're Supreme Court justices?

>> Yep. So, Cliff and I have been married for two years now. We created a very big

blended family between the two of us. We have nine children. >> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. And [applause]

we currently reside in the house that Cliff used to share with his ex-wife.

>> We all listen.

>> Yeah. This audience is on it right now.

>> This This case is not going to survive summary judgement. I'm pretty sure >> we have an extremely low mortgage that

would >> How much? >> Uh we have $225,000 left on it. We only pay $1,800 a month.

>> Okay. Gotcha. >> On a home that's big enough to hold all of us. >> Yeah. >> Um I would like to sell it and move to a

fresh start because it has bad juju in

it for me. Come on. >> He would like to stay, pay it off, and

save for our retirement and a long trip

that we plan to take when we get the last kid out of the house. >> Okay. And how many times, like hours,

just give me a general idea how many hours you've spent talking about this.

>> Look at the face.

>> Huh? >> Do you want to do you want to burn it to

the ground? [laughter] If we could get the money out of it and then burn it. Yeah. >> What's it worth if you sold it or burned it? >> Five to 530.

>> So, you walk away with a nice chunk of change and free of that. So, Clifton, this is uh fascinating. Couple hundred hours. That's why I asked that question.

And after a couple hundred hours, you're here live on the Ramsay show with three

people that are going to settle this debate. Are you not picking up the signals? In in other words, what is your after all of the conversation, what's keeping you hanging on to this house?

>> Honestly, we've gone around and looked at multiple other homes and we just haven't found something that's the equivalent. >> What do you mean by equivalent?

>> Just the bedrooms have been smaller. The

number of bedrooms, I just want to make sure that we have enough room in our house for everybody. If we wait two more years, we have a child graduating uh

here in a month and then the next one graduates the following year. Okay. So, if we had four kids still living with us in the house, then we could get a smaller house. >> Okay, I hear you now to you. And by the way, I'm going to do my judge part. I'll get out of the way. I want to know Cheryl when he says I'm holding on to it because we haven't found something that works. Have you found something that would work that you could make work?

Cheryl, tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. So, help you God. the two-bedroom apartment down the street. >> I knew it. I knew it. John, move into a wall tent tomorrow.

>> Clifton, I've been doing this long enough to know I just put you in a corner >> and your wife is asking you to listen to her. >> You're bringing data to a feelings fight. >> Yeah. >> And you're going to lose.

>> We could go up to about $3,000 a month and still be within the Ramsay parameters, but [laughter]

There you go. [laughter]

>> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> Is it over the shoulder? >> No. >> I'd like it to come over. There it is.

>> I'm ready to rule. I don't know if you have any further questions, [laughter] >> John. Any further questions? J, >> I I just want to There's a point of clarification here. You said that y'all

could move all the way up to $3,000 a

month in monthly mortgage and still stay

within 25% of your total take-home pay.

>> Yeah. >> So, I the one question I'd have for the defendant is, "Brother, what are you doing?" [laughter] >> I think I'm about to lose my head according to Ken here with this weight.

>> But before he before he rules, let me rule yet. Let me be like for real. Is there a deeper attachment for you to the house besides the numbers? I >> It's actually the size of it. Okay.

Because if we could wait that two years, I mean, >> I love my wife tremendously, but if we could wait that two years and get a smaller home, the financial gains we'd have there would be >> I have a question for you, sir. If rolls were reversed and you were staying in this awesome house that >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. If rolls were reversed, would you be wanting to hang on to this house?

>> I honestly Yeah. I think I would be okay with it for the short time.

>> Short time. >> Has to be the short time, though. >> Two more years in your mind is a short short time with the ghost of the ex walking around the house. >> We've already lived in it for four years. >> Oh jeez. Clifton. Oh my gosh.

>> All right.

>> I rule in favor of Cheryl. Clifton, sell the house. [applause]

You get to do it next.

>> What am Oh, my >> Put it on the table and rule. >> All right. Uh, my ruling is the current house is indeed haunted, [laughter] and for that reason, I'm out.

[applause] >> I not only rule for Cheryl, but you,

sir, should go to jail.

>> Straight to jail. And and before we move on, James, >> don't y'all wish Dave was here tonight,

>> what if Dave [laughter] could be here?

>> Because Dave, I think >> What would Dave say? >> I think I got a message from Dave to you, Clifton. Are you ready?

>> I'm ready.

>> Suck it up, buttercup. [laughter]

Thank you guys. You're big sports. Give us some love. [applause]

Oh, I've waited my whole life for that moment, I think. How's the hair look? Is it all right? Okay.

>> I can't keep that on the whole time, but I'd like to. It get a little warm, doesn't it? >> Yeah. Uh, let's go to Trayvon. Give him some love. Trayvon, how are you? >> I'm doing good. How you doing? >> Good. Tell us where you're from. >> I'm uh from Corpus Christi.

>> Nice. Okay. What's your question?

>> So, my question today is, it's lovely to meet all of you all today. It's an honor. Would you change your approach to the baby steps if you were 29 today facing high rent and low wages while

prepping for marriage?

>> Wow. No, I wouldn't. Um

because doing so would make me the exception. And I think that when you go through life with that behavior that I'm the exception, I'm the exception to the rule, it gives you the opportunity to

cop out from a lot of hard things. That

being said, I do think that there's challenges. Like I want to validate the fact that there's challenges. There's always going to be a generation that faces challenges that the previous generation didn't face. And I think that you're feeling the weight of that right now. Um the advice stays the same.

So, what's the part of the There's something that you're wanting to go the other way on and tell me what it is and what you want to do instead.

>> I think I want to like invest more maybe like so I know it's like obviously I know the baby steps even like the emergency fund like you got do you want to save a thousand but I'm like is that is that enough for today kind of like how far the dollars goes and everything?

>> No, I mean a thousand's never been enough to be honest with you. I mean there's a lot of arguments for that but it's not supposed to be enough. It's I'll tell you what it what it was for Sam and I. And I think that these guys could probably chime in in the same way.

$1,000 is enough to make you get creative. It's enough that when an emergency strikes, you have to dig deep and go, "Okay, the washer and dryer went out. Uh if I had credit or if I had more

money, I would just go over to Lowe's and and get something or buy something off Craigslist or, you know, secondhand, whatever." But when you don't have any money to spend, then you go, "Okay, what can I do? Well, my mother-in-law is down the street. I can wash the clothes here.

I can dry him at her house, right? And you start thinking way more creatively.

My buddy is good at fixing things. I think I can call him over and he can, right? So, that's what $1,000 helps you do. And then, yeah, it's enough to cover, you know, a flat tire and little things like that, but um don't let that be the thing that stops you, especially if it hasn't stopped you yet.

I would hate for you to think towards the future and go, that's that's something that could potentially stop me and not test it and try it. >> I'd love to know your quick numbers. So, how much debt do you have?

like 6,000. >> That's it. >> What's the 6,000?

>> So, I have like my my car is the majority of it, but I have 5,000 in 5,000 in my for my car. Then, as far as

my I got like some tax stuff, maybe like a,000. Okay. 1,500. Yeah.

>> What What in what kind of income do you have? >> I make around like [snorts] 4,000 a month right now.

>> Okay. And when do you expect to be debtree? If you're mapping this out and you're getting after it, when do you think you're debt free?

>> Oh man. Uh >> 6,000. Come on, man. >> Yeah, it's not it's not a lot right now.

I'll say like within the next >> four to five months. >> Good answer. [laughter] >> I don't I don't four to five months.

>> I mean, make it 90 days.

>> I'm with John. I'd like to see So, here's where I'm going with this. All right. So, on the other side of that now

is baby step three. So, you have a $48,000 income. Quick math. What's a good emergency fund for him? three months worth of expenses. >> I I would start with 18.

>> 18. You feel good about that number?

>> Okay. >> All right. Let's fast forward. All right. So, what's on the other side of baby step three for you?

>> Baby step >> four. >> And what are you doing in baby step four?

>> Help him out crowd. >> Yeah. Help me out.

>> Investing 15 20 15 to 20%. Yes.

>> And how old are you right now? >> I'm 29. >> 29. >> Yeah.

>> James, do you have Can we do a quick investment calculator? >> I got it. I got it. >> Oh, right.

This here's cuz this was the this was the heart of your question, wasn't it? >> You were like, I want to start investing. I feel like I'm 29. I'm almost 30 and paying off this debt.

You were going, I'm not investing. Am I right? Is that what I heard? >> Right.

I do have I want to add one little thing, too. So, like if I want to like obviously preparing for marriage, >> how much should I be putting towards a ring? You know, from that standpoint as well.

>> Yes. >> She's right here to my left.

Uh, well, but I mean, which is the bigger question? Saving for the ring or hey, should I get out of order on the baby steps? You know what our answer is?

>> Yeah, >> I've already made the point. You're you're not far away from being able to

be into baby step four. And Jade's going to do a little investment calculator. So, pick him up at what, 30 years of age. >> Yeah, I'm going to pick you up at 30. Do you already have anything in there?

>> What do you mean? >> Do you already have anything invested?

>> Any 401k or anything?

>> Yes, I do. >> How much? >> About like 3,000. Okay. So, I'm going to

put that in there. So, we'll start this >> at age 30, assuming you're going to save up the $18,000. You have an engagement ring to buy. You have $6,000 of debt to pay off. Uh let's say that, and this is very conservative because I'm just going off the $4,000. I'm not doing it off your gross amount. So, let's say 600 bucks a month. Average rate of return annualized, we'll say 10%. Okay. So, if I calculate that from age 30 to let's go with 65. Does that sound good?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. That's going to be drum roll please. Oh, very nice.

>> 2.375 million >> million dollars. >> And and that's assuming nothing gets better from here on out. So the the

barrier like the bar is low here, >> right? [laughter] >> So Trayvon, you see what we just did?

>> Don't go out of order. >> Yeah. You don't need to. >> You're a young man. You're going to be very wealthy. You should see the smile on the face of that lady next to you when she saw 2.375

million. [laughter] Yeah.

>> You didn't think he had it in him, did you? Look at her. She's like She's like, "What's up? Look at this." >> And that's not even like Yeah. Once you guys get married, you're going to be contributing to that. Like you guys are going to be off the hook. >> That number's low is what she's telling you. >> Right. >> You got us. >> Yes. I got Yes. Sounds good. >> Now, do you want to add You want to weigh in on the uh cost of the ring.

This was a hot topic in Charlotte.

>> I think I think uh ma'am next to him

should needs to weigh in. >> Have you picked out the ring? >> No, not yet. >> Have you given him any guidance?

Not a ton. >> Not a ton. [laughter] Did you listen, Trayvon? >> I do. Yeah. >> Do you have an idea what that number is without saying anything?

>> I say between four to eight.

>> Oh, you went ahead and said it. Okay.

[laughter] >> I'm like I'm trying to make it easy on him. So four to eight. How do you feel?

I feel great about that. >> I feel really good about that. How do you feel about that? >> I mean, honestly, mine was lower than his. >> Okay, great. >> Bro, lock this down now.

>> Lock it in. >> Do you want to say a little something to her right now? Have you already asked her? Not right now.

>> Not yet. Not yet. Not yet. >> Bro, we got you. This is going to be big [laughter] time. >> Yeah, cuz Jake can sing. I mean, John's licensed somewhere on the internet to do something. I mean, we could just get it and wrap this up tonight. >> We can play John Legend right now.

[laughter] >> I love it. Hey everybody, give Trayvon some love. That's awesome. [applause]

>> Uh, okay. Who do we have next? Lauren.

Give Lauren some love as she comes to the mic. Where is Lauren? Yeah.

[applause] Come on down.

>> Hi, Lauren. >> Hi. >> Who do you have with you? >> My husband. >> Oh, very nice. Tell us your names and where you're from. >> Uh, my name is Christian. Um, origin from West Africa, based. Yes.

>> And I'm Lauren. I'm from Reno, but I live in Denver. >> Okay, great. All right. So, what's your question? >> Um, so it's I don't know if we're going to need judgment. Um, >> I can go get the wig. [laughter] >> You might need to. We'll see. Um, so we've been following the Ramsay plan for I don't know, eight months and we've paid off about 120,000 of debt. Yeah.

[applause] Yeah. Um, definit.

And um we disagree on the percentage for investment right now because we started investing like

probably in the last couple of paychecks to the max amount that we can and now

we're in the step where we could start putting more toward our mortgage. We have a 15-year mortgage and uh it just feels a little tight and I can't get him to see that it feels a little tight.

>> Okay. Tell us your position. We'll start with you. Uh, so what is your position on how much? >> Um, well I I would like to be within the

like 15 to 18% and right now we're at like 22%. >> Oh. >> Oh. Investing 22%. >> Yeah. Christian is like, let's go.

>> He Well, I in in all fairness, so we're both 38 and we have not saved much for,

you know, we don't have a ton in our 401ks. He has much more than I do. And so I think the >> I won't speak for him, but I've heard the argument. >> Let's hear from Christian. So Christian, why are you wanting to invest more than 15%. What's the fear driving this?

>> Well, uh, thank you, Ken. Um, maybe because is the number. Uh, so at the

beginning of this month, um, I saw the stock market tank. And I told her, well, let's mass the uh 24,000 for IRS limit

for the year because I'm a CPA. So, I was telling her that. So, and she said, no, Ramsey says 15%. And I said, I think they say at least 15, not at most 15.

>> Well, you're you're in baby step six. Is that what I heard? >> Yeah. So, yes. So, yeah.

>> Yeah. So, are you putting anything extra towards the house? >> Well, that is where I I was telling her that since what is going on on the stock market now and I think for me is a good opportunity to buy. So I said, well, let's throw in the 24,000 a month or

each so that after a year when the

market start going up, we can back up from the investment and now throw in the mortgage. >> I hear you, Christian. Your your your

thought process I I I get it. You're like, "Hey, I'm going to take advantage of the stock market while it's down. It makes sense." It does, but you're just not in that spot to do it yet. Right now is the time to throw any and all extra money that you guys decide at the home mortgage and start paying that off.

You're doing the 15%. That is great. As if you want me to bust out the the calculator again, although I have a feeling you've calculated this. [laughter] >> We do it like >> all the time. Yeah, I can tell.

>> You're going to be just fine because the thing is if you go ahead and start paying this mortgage off when the time comes if you wanted to invest 25%. If you wanted to in I mean you could really just go hog wild on this. I think you're

very very excited. And for whatever reason, and I tell people this all the time, investing, paying off your home mortgage, that's an investment too, right? It's still an investment. It's just in on a a different median, right?

So, I would go ahead and follow the baby steps and do it that way and go ahead and do the 15%.

>> For now, >> but [laughter] your face is saying but

>> no, the thing I think uh >> don't argue with Jade. No, listen. Let's go. [laughter] We gross okay we we gross like uh 250 and basically think about

our was mortgage is like around 2500 so

for me that's the most the biggest expense besides other child care but like I think we still have a margin but she does nothing so you probably do have the margin I'm just saying put it towards the mortgage cuz how much is left to go on the mortgage >> yeah like maybe a thousand

>> no no I mean total balance oh total oh $250 50 >> 250. I think here's what I think happens. I think it's cuz the money is the money, right? It's either going to one investment or another. What it is is it's very daunting to look at a $250,000 mortgage and go, "Well, I'm going to chip away at that little by little." That feels mentally daunting. What doesn't feel daunting is I have a goal to save up $250,000 over here, right?

And so, I think it's just your mind going to what you think is going to be the easier play when really it's the same thing. You're still, you know, the house is still getting paid down. you're still going to be able to have the money to invest later. So, think about that because I have a feeling that that's what's pushing you is it feels daunting

to pay off. Who here is on baby step six? Is it daunting to pay off the mortgage?

>> There you go. >> And Christian, can I throw something at you and tell me if I'm wrong, ma'am?

Okay.

In my house, my wife sleeps just fine with a

mortgage. She slept just fine with her

payment on her Corolla. It it it doesn't

have a visceral response in her. I can't

breathe if I owe somebody money. I I I wish I could just snap my fingers and say it is what it is. It a great gift

she gave me was to say, I don't have this same anxiety in my chest that you do about money, but if it means this much to you, I'm in. Let's do this thing. like let's make sure we're putting money in retirement or whatever. But I'll forego a vacation.

I'll forego fancy stuff because I love you enough that if we do this thing on the back end when we paid our house off, you better believe we went on the stupidest vacation I could imagine. But it was a gift she gave me cuz she said, "It's it's you and me ride or die. And if this means that much to you, if if we can still keep putting money away, um I I I'll be a part of this thing." And so even if you just set the numbers aside, I'm hearing this this mortgage weighs on you.

>> Yeah, it'd be great to be completely debtree. >> Okay.

[laughter] >> That's you look incredible, man.

>> That's true. [laughter] Yeah. Thanks.

>> Yeah. You know, I I I would just tell you that Christian, it's really important to her and you need to lean in on this because you're going to be fine.

Get on. You're on you're every day on the website according to your wife. Like we're looking at the investment calculator. You know, you're going to be fine. Nobody needs to tell you that. But to her, I think John just laid it out beautifully. And I'm going to put the pressure on you. Manto man, you got to listen. You and Clifton, man, you guys need to form a group.

>> I will give in tonight. So, >> you will give in? Yeah. So, quick quick last question. How any tip on making the

budget meeting pleasant and consistent?

[laughter] >> Okay. Is this So you're the nerd. Yes.

>> And you're the free spirit. >> He's a big nerd. >> Okay. What do you think, Jade? This is interesting. Make it fun. >> Making it fun and budget.

>> I mean, marijuana is legal in [laughter] I'm just kidding. Don't do that. Don't do that.

>> What? Um, so I'd like to hear from

Lauren. What causes the budget meeting to not be fun?

>> I could tell you right now. Can I guess?

Can I guess? Here's what happens. Christian brings the completed plan. And then Lauren says, "Okay, but food costs more than $9 a month." And Christian's like, >> "First, let me turn the suit this way." [laughter] And then he says, "I think we can make it." >> You know how to fix that, don't you? >> Without a doubt. Yeah. >> Make him eat rice and beans and you eat real food, >> you know. Yeah. like our kids don't need to eat. Like they'll be fine, you know?

>> Okay. So, it sounds like for you it's it's you're walking into a persuasion.

Like you're walking in having to already have an argument prepared.

>> Definitely. >> What would happen? Uh uh what would happen if you sat together and as you go down the line items, you decide together what the amount is versus Christian already having one set and you having to agree to it. Is that better or worse?

Um, there's just so much negotiation on

every single thing and then it's still the same argument of >> buddy, you got to loosen the purse, the purse strings, [laughter] man.

>> You realize you pulled off the greatest negotiation of all time, getting her to marry you, right? [laughter] Take the dub, man. Take the win. You got

to relax a little bit. You got to hear this from her. >> All right. Here's the plan. I got you.

You bring a completed budget and set it on the table. She for the next six months has to change at least three,

preferably five line items by $1, $50,5

I don't care. And you got to be like, I love you for making that change. You can under the table, you can be like, but you you have to practice doing this thing together. Y'all are co-creating this marriage together. And also, you've got a set of skills like you're good at numbers, you're good at budgeting stuff, and you also have to practice. I'm gonna trust her to also give us some fun and some joy in this house.

>> And I'm gonna do my best to try to help out. You need to loosen up. [laughter]

>> Let's go. Here's a bottle of red wine.

The next budget meeting, look at me. The next budget meeting, you drink about half of that before you start.

>> Okay. All right. Give them some love.

That's fun.

[applause] Oh, man.

Quick thing, John. I want to tee you up real quick. You know, uh, just couples in your, we got a lot of people watching this on YouTube, obviously, everybody in the room, but this idea of knowing how

your I want you both to speak this.

Knowing how your partner is wired about money, you got to get that first or else the budget meeting is like Charlie Brown's teacher. True or false?

>> Yeah. It becomes a it becomes a proxy war. It becomes a place where we have a fight that really the the disagreement is about. I don't feel safe in this situation. And the greatest gift you can give to your spouse is safety and trust.

And so if if y'all keep having this fight about I think this line item is wrong and I made this budget, back all the way out and ask yourself, why is it so important to me that this thing be mine and only mine? And ask yourself, what is it about owing somebody money that scares me? And then put that on the table and share that together. and let's let's get beneath the the the budget fight and let's get to the real connection underneath it.

>> Jay, give us a word to couples on getting on the same page. >> Oh, um, that's a good one. You know, Sam and I, we've vacasillated between who's the the spender and who's the nerd. And so, there's been seasons where I'm the spender and I know what that feels like to be shut down.

And then there's seasons where I'm more nerdy and he's wanting to spend. So, I think just having grace for where each other is in the season and to to John's point, really getting underneath it and go challenging yourself to ask why why do they value that so much and then when you can understand it, it's easier for you to um you know, meet them halfway if you can try to understand it a little bit. >> Love it. All right, we're going to go next to Stephanie.

Everybody give Stephanie some love. Stephanie, [cheering] >> hello. >> Where are you from? >> I'm from Salt Lake City.

>> Salt Lake City. Very nice. Okay, what's your question?

and information I'm going through, it's extending into my family now. So my ma my main main question is how do I talk to my siblings about their money habits

currently? um you know like they want to buy the expensive things, they want to look this successful, but I was hoping to get some more, you know, encouragement to them to like let's let's talk about financial security and what it looks like. >> How's that gone so far [laughter] >> without damaging our relationship? Um I

I get the nods, you know, I get the Okay, cool.

>> Did they Did they ask? >> Yeah. Have they ever asked? Um, no. It's

more like, oh, you um you need money to

pay for your your car payment or to buy

the latest jersey or, you know, someone's coming into town for a concert and they want to, you know, borrow the money to so that they can go, but they'll pay me back when they get paid.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the hardest things for people is when you have loved

ones >> that are making choices that you know

aren't healthy or good >> for them. It's hard.

>> And it's really hard when they don't want your advice. They would never ask for your advice. And in fact, they take your advice as as an affront or an

attack. Right. Yes. I think in in pitching I I think the greatest gift you could give them is to just live peace.

>> Don't owe anybody money. Buy presents with cash. Like be a such a radiant

joyful presence because you don't owe anybody anything. You're free that

hopefully when when when the when the damn breaks and it will >> they know, oh, I know there's a light in the dark somewhere and I I'm going to make that call. And that call may never come. by the way. >> Yeah.

>> And you grieve that and you go do the next right thing. But I've just made it, dude. I've ruined I've got several of my oldest friends. The friends I've been friends for 30 years here.

They'll tell you I have ruined >> I'd like to meet them later. >> They're incredible.

parties, dinner, gettogethers by trying

to over advise and lecture and I'm I can

be so annoying. So I just a few years ago like I'm going to stop giving advice to people who don't ask for it. And what I've given myself is peace. I have much more pleasant dinners. And weirdly, more

people circle back and say, "Hey, can I ask you your thoughts on something?" Right? Okay. >> And so if they're not asking for it and you've tried and they just give you that nod like you're trying to sell them essential oils. If you sell essential oils, stop. But like

>> like I think it's like half the audience awkwardly as I scan. I got a buddy who's like in congestive heart failure and his wife's like, "Just put some thieves oil." No.

Oh, I forgot. We're in Denver.

>> You got to read the room, buddy. >> My bad. My bad. You said that and half the room went, "Yeah, [laughter]

>> this is my quick take. >> Next, we're going to go around and ask each other who who you voted for." >> No. Well, you know, it's interesting. I

want to flip it for you. How many siblings do you have? >> I'm the oldest of five. >> Okay.

Has there been a time where one of your siblings started advising you or started telling you about something that they were excited about or who they were voting for or where they were going to church? Has there ever been a situation like that where they were a little enthusiastic to you and you were like, "Okay, thanks." >> Yeah. The oils. >> The oils.

>> Yes. >> Really? >> Essential oils. >> Well, that's like big in Salt Lake, right?

>> Mhm. >> That's interesting. That's why it smells so good. >> Salt Lake.

I think it smells nice >> in the whole city. >> Yeah, I think so. It's wafting. It's just wafting out of everybody's houses.

[laughter] Okay, so back to your situation. You didn't like it, did you? It felt a little uncomfortable. >> Weird.

Yeah, for sure. >> That's what you're doing to them. >> Mhm. >> And I'm [clears throat] not picking on you.

>> Oh, no. >> I'm just putting the shoe on the other foot there. And I think John's advice is fantastic. I think you just got to live it out.

A >> lot of grace. And when you feel tempted to go, but I do this and Dave Ramsey says that >> don't just live it out and I think you're gonna be okay. >> Okay. >> And you got your own journey to win, you know? >> So, the best thing you can do is walk through the baby steps and get really healthy. And now they're looking at a model of what they want in their life.

And John nailed it. It's peace. >> How How close are you to paying off everything? >> I still probably have about a good two years. >> Okay. >> Two years. Will you call into the show when you're when you're there?

>> Well, yes. Yes, I do. I plan I Well, I plan on it. It just I hope my husband's on the Well, is with me when he when I make the phone call. [laughter] >> Is he here tonight? >> No, he's not. He's back home. >> Okay, great. Same thing with your husband. >> Mhm. >> Don't be preaching all the time. Just say, "Hey, I think this makes sense.

What do you think about it?" Ask questions. One of the things I learned way too late in life uh in dealing with

u people in general uh family co-workers

and I and I you know I made a living asking questions but it took me too stinking long in my personal life to stop making statements.

I was making too many statements with my kids with my wife with my father. Too

many dagum statements. I was just one big giant conviction.

You know what I'm talking about? And if I can be real for a moment, and I want you guys to weigh on this, I'll just say this very quickly, maybe just to help a lot of people in the room.

I had to realize that while my conviction was pure and my heart was

pure, it wasn't coming across that way.

I was too busy making statements. And when you make a statement, it's like me throwing a ball right out here in the crowd. And when I throw a ball right here, what are you going to do? You're going to react. You're going to defend yourself, right? I don't want to hit get hit in the nose. And I think John, I don't know if this holds up clinically.

>> That's what I did. Yeah. But but I was throwing balls at people's faces

with statements. I'm as serious as I can be. I don't mind you laughing, but I'm telling you what I was doing. And if you shift this, and John knows more about this from his clinical and his education, all this stuff, but when you shift it to a question, the defensiveness goes away. Instead of throwing something at you, I hand you something. And if I hand something to Jade, she takes it and then it's hers.

John, you need to finish that. Even better than >> Well, maybe she doesn't take it from me, but >> I took it. I just tossed it away after.

>> Even better, you're you're not handing them something. You're inviting them.

Right. >> That's the idea. >> And um I think that's a I think that's a that's a gift. There's the old and you may even know the theologian who said this but um preach every day to everyone

always and use words only when necessary. Right? So let your let your life live this piece. Right. Stephanie,

you're awesome. Everybody give Stephanie some love. So fun. [applause]

John, I got to go back to the the essential oils thing. and you're hating on them a lot, but you have a pretty funny story about your own experience with them. I think you need to tell the audience. >> I think we are good.

>> Then maybe James needs to share. >> So, I got for real. I was clearing brush out at my house in the woods over Christmas and I got covered in poison

ivy >> and I had I had a whole drawer full of

essential oils and so I got the what I

thought was like the healer kind. And I got this stuff called oregano oil >> and I rubbed it all over myself. Well, I

was like parts of my arm were falling off

and my wife came in and I stepped out and I was like, "Hey, is this" and she's always like telling me like, "You're such a baby, such a whiner." She looked at my arm. She's like, "Oh, we have to go to the ER now." And I was like, "It's Christmas Eve." And she goes, "We're going to the hospital now." Like parts of my arm were coming off. And when I got to the hospital, it was one of the greatest. Like when he said this, I was like, "You're my doctor for life." This guy walks in in a rural Tennessee hospital Christmas Eve, and he goes, "Hi, I'm I'm Dr.

Braxton.

get this out of the way. I'm working at

a Dockin Box ER on Christmas Eve in rural Tennessee. I'm clearly not very good at my job." I was like, "You're my

man." I thought he was going to say he just delivered a goat or something. >> No, it was awesome. So, no more essential oils for me. >> You forgot to put the You have to put a carrier oil with it.

>> Now you're just like That's like Now we're at Hogwarts. >> Do you believe Do you believe that? Is that right? I'm I My wife >> Some of them you can't put directly. You have to put it with a It's too strong.

>> You can't triple stamp a double stamp. All right. Listen, [laughter] raise your hand if you ever get weird

spam text or emails.

All right. Listen. I joke all the time, I hate being online. And here's the

truth. I am online. My whole life and career is online. I'm on podcast, social media, YouTube, everywhere. And because of that, my personal information is all over everywhere. And somebody whispering

to me.

>> Wow. >> It was It was in our It was in our ins.

>> Oh, I thought you were saying, "John, you're doing this terrible." >> No, that's just a voice in your head.

Oh. Does anybody have an oil for that?

Yeah, >> we can rub it on right now. I'll rub it on your scalp. It'll be great.

>> We're going to have to edit this back. Is that cool? >> It's okay. Just keep going. Do they know that we're doing an ad?

>> We're doing John [laughter] >> John has the subtlety of an anvil.

>> Uh yeah, just start back over. Hopefully the whispering won't stop.

>> This is a live radio show, so I'm doing an ad. Are we cool?

>> Hold on one second. >> I'm not good at this job. >> If it Do you want me to read it?

>> All right, everybody. Raise your hand if you've ever get weird spam texts or emails, right? Listen, I joke all the time that I hate being online, but that's my whole job. I'm on YouTube, I'm on podcasts, I'm all over the internets. I'm everywhere. And because of that, all my personal information, pictures of me, my stories about my life, everything is also online. But even though you don't

host a national show, your information is also all over the internet, too. And

we all know this in your personal life, in your professional life, your reputation matters. Think about it. How many years you spent building trust, getting momentum, your character and consistency is what people know you by.

And all of a sudden, your entire reputation can go up. Poof. Just like that. Because data brokers are posting your data online without your consent.

So that's why all three of us use Delete Me. And we recommend that you do it as well. This is and think about this. your phone number, home address, old email accounts, all your family's info, it's all out there, and it makes you vulnerable to spam and scams. So, this

is dangerous stuff, okay? Delete me goes to hundreds of those data broker sites, removes your stuff, and this the best part. They keep going back and remove them. So, you don't have to worry about it. They take care of you. And you can get right now 20% off an annual plan at joineddeeme.com/ramsey.

That's joined me.com/ramsey.

And that John is how you do a professional ad read. [laughter] >> I'm sorry. [applause] I mean, [cheering] I felt like we were in that commercial where they bring the backup QB in. You know, I was like, Jade, yes, >> you're in. >> I was ready. >> You were ready. >> Oh, John, you're awesome. >> I'm not good at I'm trying.

>> Okay, >> you did good. >> Hey, while we're here in Denver, we decided to get out on the streets and talk to people about money. If you had a $1,000 emergency today, just out of nowhere, what would you do?

>> Go to my savings. >> What do you have in savings? >> I don't want to tell you that. >> Honestly, I don't know. I don't know.

I'm not too good with my monies. >> Who would you call?

>> Uh, probably my family. I would cover it because I've saved. >> You got the money. It's not even a blip.

>> I've saved enough money where I could easily pay it off. My father is a wonderful human being and I would probably say, "Hey, Dad, please help me. I'm crying." >> Do you think about things like having an emergency fund at this stage of your life? Not as much as I should.

For instance, my car desperately needs new tires and I have put that off and put that off. When it happens, I'll have a rude awakening call. Chris, >> you have young kids. Call and say, "I need new tires." Say, "Well, that's, you know, that's a problem you have, isn't it?" >> They ask you how you are, you just have to say that you're [music] fine when you're not really.

>> I can just pull from my emergency.

>> You've got it in the bank. >> I've got it in the bank. >> What do we call that in Ramsay land?

>> Baby step number one. >> You got it. All right. You thought it was a trick question. Hey, by the way, while we're talking about amazing partners, uh you know, we're very careful at Ramsey on who we endorse.

Fair Winds Credit Union, as you know, they're the title sponsor of our studio in Nashville. We'd love to see you guys come see us, and they're helping us make this tour uh happen. So, we're really

grateful to whatever executive at Fairwind's Credit Union made this happen. So, we want you to know, great, great organization. We trust them. Go check them out. All right. Now, we're gonna do something fun. >> I'm ready. Okay, everybody's been asking us questions and we will continue to do that. But now, John, Jade, this is our turn to flip the script. In other words,

we're going to ask you some questions.

Okay? We want to hear from you what you think. So, Jade, I feel like you're the fairest of us all, ladies first, what

you want to know from the audience. H I

want to know should the guy pay for all the dates or is there ever a time to split it?

>> Oh, let's say >> if you're dating. This is for my my singles. >> Who's got an opinion? Raise your hand because we want to hear you right here.

Tell us your opinion.

>> My opinion is that when I ask my

boyfriend out or when I ask another person out, I pay. And when someone else asks me out, they pay. Now, that being said, I don't assume >> what happens if they're in a relationship, >> like married. >> No, dating. You jumped really fast.

>> Well, I >> is your question. I I wanted context [laughter] from you. What do you think?

>> If they're Well, if they're not dating, what what's what's she just said, if I

ask a person out, then I pay. If they ask me out, I'm saying now if you're like dating for a long time are 6 weeks in. I It's your question. >> All I'll be honest. I'm always like, "The guy pays." >> Me, too. I'm old school. Dude pays.

>> But I also >> Okay, that got that got a a good got a good response. >> Decent response. If you think that you should go is it Dutch? Is that the term?

>> Go Dutch. >> If you think you should go Dutch, let's hear your applause. [applause]

>> Okay. >> That didn't that didn't hit right. >> Very progressive people. [laughter] >> That's great. >> Very progressive people or very broke dudes.

>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I want to know about that. I want to know a guy's opinion on this. Who is Yeah. Who feels it in their wallet? >> Do we have a guy >> who's who's brave enough to say something? >> Go against up in the up in the top.

>> I see him. It was a bold hand raise.

>> Okay, we can't. Can we get a mic to him?

We can. All right. Hang on. This is exciting.

What is your answer, sir?

>> I say regardless of your financial situation, you asked her out, you pay.

>> Let's go. >> But if she What if she makes the plans?

What if you're just talking and she's like, "Oh, I'm going to go to dinner. Do you want to come with me?" >> Is that how that sounds?

>> I don't know. [laughter] I've never >> I WAS OFFENDED ON BEHALF of women for your voice. >> I've never ASKED A GUY OUT. I DON'T KNOW. >> Is it Tinkerbell?

>> Doesn't change. Still pay.

>> My guy. My daughter right next to you.

>> Wait, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

[laughter] >> Now, who? Wait a second, ma'am. You don't just take over the show. That's his That's his wife. Who are you? I'm his [laughter] I'm his wife. >> YOU'RE HIS WIFE. OKAY. >> PLEASE GOD, PLEASE TELL ME YOU PAID ONCE. >> NO. NO. What I'm saying is he put it on credit cards that I'm now paying for as his wife.

[cheering] >> Yikes.

>> Yikes. This guy thinks he's a knight in shining armor [laughter] and his wife says, "Hold my beer."

And she just jousted you off of your steed. [laughter] No, sir. You're done. You don't get to talk anymore. >> You got to know when to hold him and know when to fold him. Sir, >> I'm with you, brother. The gesture was right. >> But you're right. You're right. But you shouldn't have put it on a credit card. But you're still right.

>> Look at this guy. Won't let go.

[laughter] >> YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE DOING THE right thing at the time. I get it.

>> No, I agree. I I absolutely a stud.

>> And hey, is that your daughter right next to you, >> sweetheart? Listen to him. Not the credit part, but Okay, here's what I want to know. I like this relationship tension. We love it.

What's the last money fight you had? Who wants to share?

>> Dr. John's in the house right here. This lady, she was like the little kid in elementary school that was like [laughter] right here down front. Right here in the middle. Raise your hand, ma'am, so they can see you. >> Oh, I wish y'all could see his >> Is your husband with you? He looks >> Oh, he already knows what it is.

>> Somebody get him a volume. He looks like he needs it. Okay, tell us the money fight. >> The edge of my seat. >> About [clears throat] two weeks before Thanksgiving, the oven

stopped working.

And we had somebody come out who charged us $100. And he said, "Stove's fine. I

could pick it apart and find something wrong with it, but nothing wrong with it." Okay. I go to make cookies about a week after Christmas.

Burn them because I couldn't regulate the temperature. And I said, "Honey, we need a new stove." And he said, "No, we don't." And I said, "Well, you use the convection setting." >> No. [laughter] >> Oh, that's a low. >> You sound like the golfer who's always blaming the club.

>> So, I was so mad at him. I was so mad.

I'm like, "We need a stove." And I was thinking back to like when we got married and I was like, when I was single, I could just go buy a stove. I didn't have to talk to somebody about buying a stove. like I I could just go buy it. And he's like, "No, we don't need a stove." And I'm like, "Okay, I'm not baking anything. I am not baking.

I'm not b I'm not heating up a frozen pizza." >> What was your reply? Hold on. What was your reply to that?

>> We're going to go get a stove tomorrow.

[laughter] A boy. >> I had just gotten a profit sharing check from work. I had cash in the bank. I'm like, we could spend the money on >> the way to the heart is through the stomach. >> Then he went and baked something and he goes, "Okay, the stove doesn't work.

>> [laughter] >> But we got the stove. So, and you paid cash. >> Paid cash. Yeah. >> President's Day weekend. They had a great sale at Home Depot. >> So, you guys waited this start, this saga started in Thanksgiving, and you waited to February. >> He wouldn't let me buy a stone.

>> Well, to be fair, you can always go buy cookies at the grocery, but they're not the same. I get it. Well, this feels like a pretty mild fight. Dr. John, what do you see there? I think what you did actually, ma'am, is like if I could get

every couple on the planet to do what you did. It is here's what the story I'm

making up. I need a new stove and you won't let me have it. Here's how I feel about this thing. And then most importantly, here's what I'm going to do because I can only control me. So, I am not cooking anymore. And you you you let

it go and then you got your stove. So, well played. Well played. >> Well played. Absolutely. All right. Any other quick questions? We got time for one more. >> What's the dumbest thing you've ever done with money? >> Yes. Let's go. >> Somebody raise your hand >> right over here. This gentleman. We got time for just one. This gentleman in the hat. >> It better be super dumb.

>> Uh went to Las Vegas for a uh car drag

racing show with my father. >> I like how this is starting out.

>> I came back with a 2012 Camaro SS.

>> Had no intention to buy it.

>> How much? >> Uh 20 grand.

>> Gone now. Don't have it anymore. Sold it. Were you with her at the time?

>> No. No. No. No. No.

>> Because even you mentioning you bought a Camaro, she went. She >> She had her hand on her head. She was embarrassed. >> No more. Missed the car, but glad I don't have the payment anymore. >> All right. I think with James, the uh the uh fearless leader saying we have time for one more. We have another dumb thing with money. Come on. In the room this size. There it is. Back in that corner. >> Okay. I see that hand. It's another dude with a hat. This could be exciting.

>> Another Las Vegas story.

>> There's a theme.

Um, we went to Lux anniversary.

>> Hold on a second. Who are you checking with there? >> My wife. >> Oh, was she on this trip?

>> Yeah. >> Oh. >> All right. So, what happened? >> Bought a time share. [laughter]

>> Oh, no. >> We did get rid of it uh after we started following Dave Ramsey, but we got it and

paid it off. We were just paying the um maintenance. >> Well, I have something for you all. You get the stupid tax award.

[applause and cheering] I'm just gonna You come on down. I I

actually think I could throw this. Get right there on the uh I'm going to show my skills. Okay, you ready? Can you catch? Oh, boy. I'm a little nervous.

Here we go. >> Look at that throw.

>> Oh, he got it. >> Hey, that >> what they did going to Vegas and buy a time share. That's that's that's dumb. I

I I tell you a story I heard recently.

Listen, this is the dumbest thing I've heard somebody do with money. A guy

took out his girlfriend and paid for every date with a credit card and then he married her and made her pay it all back.

How cool is that? Well, I tell you, I wish that guy was here. That'd be Wouldn't that be awesome? >> We would roast him. >> Oh, man. >> That's really good. Okay, we are ready.

Our next question is David. Everybody give David a hand. Thank you, David.

>> [applause] >> David, where are you from?

>> Little town of Fairplay. >> Okay, very nice. Who do you have with you there? >> I have my teenage son, Helton.

And a few weeks ago on the show, Dr. Deloney said, "Make sure and embarrass your children as much as possible on behalf of all therapists in the country for future business." So, I drugg my son with me here. So, [laughter] >> and he looks a little angry. I'm not going to lie to you.

No, you're very cool. >> I like listening to you guys. >> You like listening to us. Thank you very much, sir.

All right. What's your question?

become, you lose motivation after a while. Starts to look daunting. Um, so my question today is is as I look at this and I try to stay motivated, um, I've got a pickup sitting in the yard that I've planned to be my 20-year pickup. It's paid off. Um,

should I part with that and try to rush the process a little further or should I just continue nose to the grindstone and and and get this done in hopefully another year? >> How much do you have left to pay off?

>> 32,000. >> How long you been chipping away at this?

>> A year. >> How long you been a single dad?

>> Eight. >> Eight years. >> How much does a truck What would it get you? >> Well, I put it up for sale and got no offers, but it's Kelly Blue Book says it should be about 32,000.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, wow. So, it's it's worth the amount that you have left, >> but it's six years old and even though there's not many miles on it, I can't seem to find a buyer, but I I'll continue. >> Do you think it's overpriced? Do you think you're charging more than somebody would pay? >> I'm just going by Kelly Blue Book. I don't know, but I don't know if I want to part with it because I was hoping with the low miles it'll be there forever.

>> That's That's the part I'd want to play out. I'd want to play out What's your fear around that?

>> Selling it and and then what? just having to have a junker of some kind, you know, when I've got something that hopefully will last longer than the year that I'm still stuck.

>> How much longer do you have to go? Yeah, >> I really think I can be done in a year.

>> Oh, I keep the truck, homie.

>> Keep the truck. >> Yeah, >> that's something to hang on. Like, that's the finish line.

>> How great would it be to only work one job and drive that truck around knowing it has no debt on it?

>> Look at you. >> That's awesome. somebody when you hit that point in a year in you're like can I continue doing three jobs for >> how many hours you working >> I lost track over 80 usually

>> what >> I mean I don't know >> what's your son's name Helton hey Helton

this right here brother is what a man looks like okay [applause]

listen to me brother no dad is perfect I know he's not perfect [applause] but this is what you do when you got kids and you're trying to grind it out by yourself. You work three jobs and you are so tired you can't even see straight and this isn't not by your hand but it's

in your lap. You've been able to pick up some extra stuff around the house. You able to help out. Hey dad, I want to make dinner once a week. Your your brother or sister help out a little bit to take some of this from him. I want to tell you this is awesome. And brother, this is how legacy's changed. You got one more year left and this thing's over forever. Okay? Don't quit now. You're so you're crushing. [applause] Okay.

>> Um, okay. I'm bring I'm bringing this back to Jay cuz I feel like we're on the Ramsy show now cuz I'm always sell the car >> and you know this >> and you're always like a little more thoughtful about this, but I'm also going to throw something out to both of you. So, we're going to talk about you while you're standing there. Is that okay? It's going to be great.

>> I wonder if for just a short season, he

backs it down to two jobs. It's gonna push his payoff date back a little bit.

Not a lot, >> but just enough to get a little bit of breath. It's kind of like uh when I train for that half marathon that you love to do. It's that it's that little It's that little twominute break.

>> Uhhuh. >> Goes a long way. >> It does go a long way. >> And I'm not saying he should do it. I'm just thinking out >> the truck jobs and pay off in 18 months instead of >> Yeah. For a season. >> Yeah. >> For a season. >> I got to tell you, I >> What are you thinking? I like that idea.

I There's not a whole lot of sentimental value in the truck.

>> I think for the truck I think I'd let it go. Now, mathematically, he can keep it, but if I were in your shoes, bro, I'd cut it loose. >> I think so. Okay. So, >> so I'm actually with Jade cuz But I'm always scared to say it. She's so scary sometimes. No, I'm kidding. >> That's what we love about her. >> I know. She's amazing. Uh I think your problem is you're trying to sell it in fair play.

It's a tough economy right now and $32,000 for anything is tough. So, I think you got to expand your pool. And I'd find some friends in a larger area, list it on Facebook Marketplace, all the places. But I think if you get that truck in in a larger pool, you can sell it. And boy, I I think that'd be great.

You're home free, man. You're spending time with that kid. More importantly, you're smelling life and just enjoying life. I would sell the truck, but I think you got to go you got to put it out somewhere else. So, I say sell the truck, too. What are you putting towards uh if you don't mind, you don't have to say this, but what's your what's the amount of margin you're throwing extra at the debt every month?

>> So, that varies because my side hustles vary. So, sometimes it's 800 bucks, sometimes it's 3,000 or 4,000.

>> Yeah. I think if you're in that three and $4,000 range, you're going to save up for something so fast that you really want after this is all said and done.

>> I I think I'd drive a piece of crap for just a piece of life.

>> Yeah. Would you rather drive a piece of crap or work three jobs for another year? That's the question. >> I want to know what the audience thinks. If you would rather drive a piece of crap, let me hear from you.

[cheering] [applause] >> That's what I would do. >> And by the way, I want you to know I'm not just saying this. My wife Stacy, if she were here tonight, when I took her on my first date, I was driving a 1982

Mazda 626 with 274,000 miles on it. And

the cool thing about it was it was New Year's Eve. It was really cold. I went to pick her up and I could take the key out of the ignition and let it keep running. [laughter] That's how big of a piece of crap it was. And it actually was doodoo brown.

It was a turd on wheels. [laughter] And it was for a season. And I'm just saying nobody cares in fair play.

Nobody. >> No. >> And if you're embarrassed by it, park around the block. They don't know.

>> Oh, it ain't about embarrassment. It's about functional. That's all. Well, I figure you know a bunch of guys in fair play that could keep some piece of crap going for a while, >> right? >> Maybe. >> Yeah, you do. All right. Hey, this is a great Oh, I got one thing for him. This is great. I love giving out awards. You guys okay if I do it? >> Yeah, do it. Do it. >> This is a single dad.

>> Three jobs, 80 hours a week.

>> I've got a glass container of uncooked rice and beans. Sir, this is for you.

>> Come on down. This is a meal. I mean,

[applause and cheering] that's what you eat.

in the piece of crap on the way to the third job. Give him some love, everybody. This is a great dude.

[applause]

Uh, all right. Okay. So, our next question, this is fun, is brought to you by Y Refi. How many you've heard us talk about? Why refi? Have you heard about Yeah, that's great. If your private student loans are in default and you're not sure what to do, Y refi can help you explore refinancing with a low fixed rate and a payment plan based on what you can actually afford. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's yfy.com/ramsey.

It may not be available in all states.

Jade, tell everybody who's up next. Who we waiting on down here? >> All right. Up next, we got Lauren C on the mic. >> Lauren, ladies and gentlemen, give her some love. [applause] >> Lauren, where are you from?

>> I'm from Salt Lake City as well.

>> Oh, wow. Do you know the other person from Salt Lake City? >> I do not. >> That's great. >> Do you sell essential oils? >> I do not. Do you use essential oils?

>> I do not. >> You can stay. [laughter] >> What's your question, Lauren? >> So, about six months ago, I had my first

disagreement about money with my boyfriend, particularly about debt, and

it didn't go very well. Um, >> tell us what that means.

>> It was about a car lease. And I have been listening to you guys for a while. So, I was really excited. I was like, "No, no way, no chance." like, "Let's save up, pay cash." And I think I came I

know I came on a little strong. He felt a little shut down. Um, and so since then, our conversations have been a lot more surface level than I'd like them to be. Um, we're both in this. We want to further our relationship and we know that that means having deeper money conversations, but it just feels pretty daunting. So, I'm just curious if you have any advice on how to navigate having those deeper money conversations after a bad first impression.

>> I hear from you that you're taking ownership of melting this poor boy just

cuz he wanted to lease a car. Is that fair? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, the path forward is I I want

to take you to breakfast. And I say this all the time. Here's why I like breakfast. The sun is out. It's in the morning. Nobody's o like overly tired.

Okay, >> for sure he's paying. [laughter]

Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll put on a credit card and you can pay it off later. [laughter] >> I'm Dude, I'm going to kick this thing till it's just um so all right. Um

and use eye words.

>> I want to tell you I totally like came on too strong. I have a real big like

thing about debt and I just melted you and I want to say I'm sorry. And here's the magic. I learned this from my friend Jeff Jefferson Fischer.

>> Can I do this one over?

>> Can I try this again?

>> And if y'all can get that in your relationship now when you're married 10 years from now, everybody says things off the top of their head. They get mad. They get frustrated. Being able to stop and say, "I said that wrong. Can I say Can I say that over again?" and the person that you're with has enough grace to say, "Go for it, man." You'll you'll

that will cut off so many of your arguments, future resentments and fights and whatever, but you go first. Say, "I messed this up. Let me tell you debt, leasing. Here's the thing it does in my chest. Here's what debt means to me.

Here's my story growing up. Here's why I believe in this stuff. Tell me your story about money." Like Ken said, ask questions. Be invite. Be curious, not judgmental. Tell me about how you grew up with money. I just don't think it matters. I don't think it's And now you're all gonna get to the heart of these values issues, right?

>> Curiosity over judgment every time.

>> Okay. >> Unless he tries to lease a car and then you just, [laughter] >> you know, it's interesting. We get these calls nonstop on the show, right?

Getting on the same page. And it's just a constant theme. And and I'm going to tell you something. It's back to the same conversation that we've been having, but I think we got to emphasize it, right? It's like they're not going to jump on board with you until they know they want to be with you long term. Let's just start there if you're dating. >> Good point, >> right? Like let's just see if we're compatible on everything else. Now, money is massively important.

>> I would never compromise your principles on that, right? On what you believe. But it's a little early. And we're not saying that to judge you, but like let's just ease into it. >> How long have y'all been together?

>> About a year and a half.

>> Is he already looking at rings?

Yes. >> Oh, that's a little bit more advanced.

>> Yeah. >> Is he here tonight? >> No, he's not. >> Oh, that was going to be rich.

[laughter] >> I was going to get him on the mic, John.

>> Um I I like this conversation because it opens up the greater conversation of of his philosophy on debt in general. And I might try that. John, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I might back the conversation out instead of focusing on this one thing and just talk financial philosophy in general. What are your views on? And if I were you, to Ken's point, I would don't share your views yet. Seek to learn about him. Ask him a

bunch of questions and just listen.

Because I find, and I know you make fun of me when I say this, but when the love goggles are on and one person says something, the other person's like, "Oh, yeah. I agree. I feel that way, too." Right? Just let him talk and really get a sense of who he is and what he thinks.

And then you can take that information and marinate on that for as long as you need to then come back and say, "Okay, when when we spoke about this earlier, now you're repeating back a bunch of things that he said." He knows that you were listening and now you can really attack it from having chewed on it a little while versus kind of going tit for tat in the moment. >> But he's not going to be open and vulnerable unless you come and say, "Hey, I I'm I blew this. Like I attacked you and I came after you.

I went full Dave Ramsey on you and that wasn't super cool." Right. Yeah. >> And throw us under the bus. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, like I listen to this and D and it really speaks to me. And understand this.

Rachel wrote a great book. Uh and I talk about on the show all the time because I think it's so vital in relationships. Know yourself, know your money. And so one of the greatest things you guys can do right now, and I love Jay's advice to kind of step back.

house growing up.

>> He's bringing that to the marriage. By the way, he's going to bring in what his what his mom did.

>> He's going to expect you to do that. We all do this. By the way, first year of marriage is brutal. Nobody tells you about wild ride >> because you got two unique individuals bringing their environment with them.

>> I'll never forget it was like our first week back from our honeymoon. We're in our nice little apartment and I got home from work about six I think. I changed

clothes, turned on the news, was nerding out, fully expecting Stacy was making dinner. About 6:45, I'm a little hungry.

[laughter] And I'm looking, we're in a two-bedroom apartment. Where could she be? She's in the bedroom, what I call

fing around, organizing, doing all kinds of stuff. And I go, "So, uh, what's for dinner tonight?" She goes, "I don't know. I haven't even thought about it." I was like, I had to go sit in the living room and go, "What have I done?" Because in my house, Barb had dinner on

the table and Kent Senior just showed up like he was an old king. You know what I

mean? And he's a caveman. God love him.

>> Yeah. >> But that's what I was expecting. Am I right? I mean, so we're bringing this in on money and everything else. So early on before this relationship gets serious, let's just see what he thinks about money in general. And hopefully after enough questions, if he's a healthy guy, he'll start asking you what you think. >> Can I ask you one more question? Oh, go ahead.

>> Are there other things you run over him on?

>> Bring those to the table, too. You don't have to share them [laughter] in front of the internet. >> I just get really excited. Like, I learn I've learned so much from you all and I just want to >> bring that here.

And like he's always so ready for the next step in our relationship and I just want to say, well, I just want this, you know, this reassurance. So, let's talk about this thing. >> So, that's probably why he loves you because you're passionate and you're excited and you're driven. That's awesome.

I'm about to melt you with my excitement and passion or whatever, sometimes that excitement can turn into judgment. That can it turn into beating you up over stuff. Let's come up with a way that you can say let's pause, right? Let's back out for a second. Yeah. >> And man, handling this stuff now is going to be awesome. Lauren, see everybody give her some love. That was great. Thank you. >> Thank you so much. >> Up next, we're going to go to Macy.

Macy, come on down. Oh, there she is.

Macy, hi. How are you?

>> I'm so good. How are you guys?

>> Great. What's your question? Oh, where are you from? >> Oh, I'm from um just north of Seattle in Muckle Tio, but I go to college about 2 minutes away from here. >> Oh, well, thank you for making the trick. >> Yeah. So, [laughter] um I did drive. I didn't I didn't walk, so sorry. >> No judgment. >> Um so, I am a college student, like I

said, and I work about 50 hours a week.

Um, I'm paying for college in cash and my parents are helping me some. Um, but they're the money that they had to help me recently ran out. Um, so I'm just uh

working on feeling like I'm burnt out

and um yeah uh I recently stepped back

from working on Saturdays for like a little Sabbath situation, but then I feel a little guilty for not working during that time. So I'm just wondering um yeah. Oh, also feeling left out from

like the college experience and life.

So, >> you know what? I want to recognize this young lady. She is absolutely crushing

it. [applause]

>> So, I I'm going let them jump jump in here, but I just want to ask when you took that Saturday, that Sabbath, which I think is so wise for such a young lady, amazing. How much does that if you were to do that a couple times a month?

I'm just throwing that out there, not suggesting it. H how would that would that put you behind the eightball financially? Would that put you in a bad spot? Like you're running that tight.

>> No, it wouldn't. But I just still feel like I either need to be working on homework or actually working. So, >> okay, let me challenge you. Okay, I learned this from my friend. She's a psychologist in New York. Her name is Dr. Becky Kennedy. She works with kids.

She's amazing. She taught me this recently.

Is it a violation of your core values to rest? >> No. >> Do you think people are wrong when they rest? >> No. >> Okay. Guilt is a good natural emotion

that our body feels when we violate our

own values.

I don't think what you're feeling is guilt. I think you're managing somebody else's stories and expectations that they've put on you your whole stinking life. and you're trying to make them

okay and you're paying the price for it cuz you're burning out. Whose story are

you carrying every Saturday morning just because you slept in until 8:00?

>> I feel like I just don't want to disappoint my parents. Yeah.

>> Okay.

Taking a break is good. Okay.

Codependence needing them to be okay so that you can be okay will burn you alive. Okay. So feel that on Saturday

mornings and say that's not mine to

carry. I'm going to go do something fun.

I'm going to go to the game. I'm going to go hang out with my friends. I'm in college and I'm working my butt. I'm working so hard. And rest is good,

right? Sabbath is good. Restoration is good. And here I say we applaud you. It's awesome.

>> Yeah. And I I want to add that uh friends are huge.

Friends are huge on long journeys. Do you have a couple girlfriends that you're thinking of right now that they know what you're doing? They know your schedule and they're for you. They're cheering for you. I mean, just picture one Saturday with them and just being a

young kid and enjoying life, you know,

friends, people that are for you. It will be like a jolt to your system. So,

I agree with John. I I think you have to plan this. No guilt, no shame. I mean, look at you. You have the disposition of the sun.

>> I mean, you really, doesn't she? Hey, what grade are you in? >> I am a sophomore in college, so I'm 20.

>> Okay, can I tell you this? I'll get choked up, so I don't mean to. I won't make eye contact. >> Okay.

>> With them, my my potluck freshman in

college roommate, who is now my Smart Vest Pro, who handles my family's future, is right there. Our my friend, great friend

Kristen is sitting right next to him.

Right next to Craig is his amazing wife Melissa. I met them in college your age

and to this day they're still ride or

die with me. Okay? Don't miss this opportunity to make friends that will show up when your things are low, when things are good, or when you win the YouTube lottery and you show up in their town and they come, right? Don't miss this opportunity. what Ken just said, man. Friendships and relationships are

everything. Cool.

>> Yeah. >> Take a Saturday. >> Thank you so much, >> Macy. You're awesome. Thank you. All right, up next. Oh, boy. You know what

this is? We got a couple. Gail and Eric.

Everybody give them some love as they come to the mic. [applause] Do I need to get my wig out again? Is this a settle the debate? It's not.

>> Shouldn't be. >> We hope not. >> We hope. Uhoh. [laughter] We'll divide you arms length away. Oh, wait.

>> That's right. We'll divide you. Okay.

Who's going to ask the question? Be up close to the mic so we can hear you.

>> All right. Um, how do couples continue to stay aligned over time when one spouse is more financially anxious than the other? The anxiety served us really well when we were working to build a nest egg, save money for our kids' college education, but now that we're starting to approach like retirement and thinking about spending money, it's really hard to picture spending any of the money for retirement.

>> So, what baby step are you on?

>> Um, so like like probably like seven.

>> Like seven. >> Wait a second. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

>> You know this crowd, you're aware of this [laughter] show. There's no probablys. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So we could pay off the mortgage if we wanted. >> Okay. So how much So what are you comfortable sharing? What's your nest egg situation?

>> So we we own a uh essential oils business. [laughter] >> Get out wizards. >> There you go. >> I love you, man.

That's good. That's well played. >> So we we we've been following Dave from like the really early days with like the 15%.

>> Okay. And so which one of you not that I have to ask, but this is for the show.

Which one of you is the anxious one with money? the one with the the question right on the piece of paper.

>> Well, believe me, I knew you had to get that question exactly right. And you did a good job, by the way. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. >> Okay, so let's dive into this thing.

What is it that you want to do, Eric, that she doesn't want to do now that we've been gazelle intense and we're supposed to be intentional because we've been living like no one else so that we can >> and Gail is like, I'm not ready.

>> We're not. I'm not ready. >> I know you aren't. Yeah. Gail worries enough for the three of us. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> That's funny. So, what do you what do you want to do? Let's let's I want her to hear. I want you to share. You guys have talked about this. What does it look like now that you want to do? And she's like, "No, we're not spending a nickel on this." >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's probably just being a little bit more extravagant with some of the money. Uh >> well, relax, dude. You only have $5 million.

>> Yeah. And we want to hear specifics.

>> I think he's scared. If I can I can.

Yeah. If you're scared, can you blink twice?

>> He's scared. He just said it, John. He's terrified.

>> Gail, >> I I'm very sorry. [laughter] >> Don't apologize to me. Apologize to him.

>> Gail, what's what's your what's your what's your core fear >> that we run out >> of of But but okay, take me to take me

to the table when he pulls up the the

laptop and says, "Honey, we're we're out. We're out. Take me to that table. What's

that fear? >> That we're out of money.

>> That's That's the top. Get beneath that.

What is that fear?

>> Uh that like we would be broke and then we'd be like a like a burden on our children. >> You have a picture in your >> You got it. Yes. >> You're a burden on your children. >> Yes. >> Tell me about that.

>> I would never want to be a burden on our children. We've worked so hard. >> How would you be a burden on them? >> We've worked so hard to No. How would you be a burden on him? >> By not having any money >> and then what?

>> And then failing. Yes.

>> Where have you seen that story in your life?

>> Um I guess like my like my

>> Yeah. Say >> I was trying to think like >> just say it. We know. Go ahead. >> Like like my like my like my parents did great and they saved like so much money and worked so hard to like make sure that they wouldn't be a burden. So, I feel like I have to do the same.

>> So, you picked up all of their fear and

you thought, "This is how I'm supposed to act."

>> That makes a lot of sense. Yes.

[laughter] >> I want to know. >> And then poor Eric's along for the ride.

>> I'd love to know what actions need to play take I I want you to play it out in order. Which actions have to take place that you would blow through $5 million?

>> The pizza oven's going to take us out.

And truly like I I I would love for you to >> to write those things out, >> okay? >> And look at them logically and go, are these rational or irrational?

>> Okay, >> I would love for you to do that because a the truth I mean, we're laughing at it, but a pizza oven's not going to take you out. >> And and 20 pizza ovens are not going to take you out. >> Two homes in Esta's Park and you'll still have $2 million left.

>> Hey, uh Eric, what do you do for a living and how much do you make? Uh, so I'm a federal government, a a humble civil servant, I should say. Uh, >> do you both work? >> Yes. >> Combined income? >> 600.

>> Stop it. Okay. [laughter] No, that >> y'all need to stop. >> No. No. I'm >> I mean, okay, we're going to get real for a second. All right, Eric, I'm putting you on the spot and I'm as serious as a heart attack. I want you to look at her, not us, >> and I want you to tell her something that you really want to do that's going to cost some money. And And Gail, I

don't want you to say anything. I'm dead serious. Go for it.

>> Corvette, definitely. >> No. No. Say the mic. Say it in the mic.

Go ahead. >> A Corvette. >> A Corvette. And how much would said Corvette set you back? Cuz don't tell me you don't know. You look at it when she's not in the living room. >> So, it's the new one coming out in What's that going to cost? Yeah, we'll budget 140. How about that?

>> 140. Look at Gail right now. She's breaking out in hives. >> Meanwhile, Meanwhile, you have this I know you have cash aside from the 500 from the 5 million. How much is just sitting in cash?

>> Like 200 from an emergency.

>> Okay. [laughter] A Corvette emergency.

>> No, not that. No, not that emergency.

>> She's angry. >> I KNOW. NO WONDER HE BLINKS TWICE.

>> SO, HERE, LISTEN. If you were to go, have you ever seen somebody for anxiety?

>> No. No. I like myself the way I am.

[laughter] >> Wow. You know what? I actually believe you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]

>> Some people say that and I go, "Yeah, that's not real. Eric, we [laughter] tried." >> Here's the thing. Um Yeah. It it's it's

they they call it exposure. Okay. The

path to stop this nuclear reactor in the

middle of your chest. >> Uhhuh. >> Okay. Is you have to practice. You have to go right through the middle of it.

And so what that means is you have to look at data and see $140,000 we could

write a check and literally we would not feel it. >> We wouldn't feel it. Nothing in our life would change at all except my husband would get these really goofy sunglasses

and cruise around town in his new car

and I'd probably look pretty cool sitting next to him in it. Right? That is the only thing that would change in your life. And I want you to feel that feeling and then go do the next thing.

Right? Because here's what you're doing.

You're you're there will never be enough for you to quote unquote feel safe until you go right through the middle of the word what's enough because you're going to get 10 million and then you're going to be like well I don't know let's get right it will that finish line will never move and you're going to be 85 years old and you're going to have a big retirement account and you're going to have a really terrified husband sitting in a rocking chair on the other side of your porch. Right. He's so repressed that when I asked him to share something, he went to the top of the list and said, " $140,000 car." Let's Let's do a $25,000 vacation.

Can we do that? And you spent a lot of time, ma'am, in the spa. All right. Hey, I got something for you.

You're the ultimate nerd. Here's some nerd gl Oh, I'm dropping my pack.

>> I got you. I got you. >> Come on down and get your nerd glasses.

There you go. You've been a good sport.

There you go. [applause]

There you go. Oh boy. Thank you, Jade.

All right, who do we have next? We have Christina up next. Let's get Christina down to the mic. Everybody give Christina a hand. There she is.

[applause] >> So, I have to defend his honor.

>> Who's >> Oh, it's the wife.

>> It's the credit card guy. Figures he would send you to fight his battles for him. >> He's filming. >> No, listen to this. This man. So when I

met him, he had a lot of credit card debt. He did want to buy every meal for me, which is noble. When I told him, "Hey, we should do the Dave Ramsey plan

type of thing." I didn't really say it in that way. I kind of was like, "Hey, we should do this." And he was like, "Okay." And then he started listening to Dave Ramsey and he's like, "We should do this." I was like, "Yeah." So he stopped

all of his credit cards. He turned his spending completely around. We have paid off probably over $100,000 since we got

married >> three years ago now.

>> We have fostered four children and we have had two more babies. >> Oh, wow. >> And he works his butt off. And >> what's his name? >> His name is Mason. >> Mason. >> He's amazing. I just needed you. Oh, by the way, that's my daughter also from another marriage, but he asked her permission to marry me. So, if you want to know why I married this amazing >> Mason,

[applause] >> you get the hardcore rockstar award.

>> There he is. He's been a great sport.

>> He is >> so fun. You're an awesome lady. Thanks for sharing that. >> Wanted to let you know. >> I love it. >> You married well, brother.

>> Mason, you're a good sport. This is what happens when you speak up at a live event. You know, [laughter] let this be a lesson to you. There it is. is the you rock award. Is that what that is, John?

>> Yes. >> Yes. Okay, great. [applause]

>> Dude, there's a couple of uh in our culture, dude, men get kind of kicked a

lot and there's >> some several pretty I mean, there's some pretty lame ones. I can see them, but there's some amazing men in this audience tonight, man. Um it's pretty impressive. It's awesome. >> Thank you, John. I appreciate those kind words. >> Yeah, you do.

Oh, you weren't talking about me. >> No. >> Okay, John, you're up next.

>> All right, everybody, uh, raise your hand in this room if somebody depends on

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>> All right. Fantastic. Ladies and gentlemen, John Deloney, Jade War, >> I would love for you to share the dumbest thing you've ever done with money. >> I don't know. There's a lot of dumb things. I want a good one. I want a good one. >> Uh, gambling, I suppose.

>> Oh, tell me about this. >> Um, just, you know, casinos and >> I do a lot of dumb things with money.

>> Really? [music] >> Is this a daily thing? >> I like to spend out of my means. A lot of online shopping. I'm one of the people that if I see an ad on Instagram for anything cute, I'm just going to add to cart, buy immediately. [music] Recently, it's sent to my children $2,000 for a car he did not get.

>> Uh-oh. We'll keep it G-rated and just uh

credit card debt. >> I spent $600 on Hot Wheels one time.

>> Honestly, move here. It's kind of expensive, but you know, I'm getting myself back up. I'm getting myself back up. >> Probably get my belly button tattooed.

>> Wow, that feels painful. Can we take a look at that? >> Yeah, that sucks. >> Okay. >> Wow. [music] Look at that. How long does that take? >> It took about I think 2 and 1/2, 3 hours. >> Wow. And how much did that cost? >> 300 400 bucks. >> Do you [music] think it would be dumb for me to spend any amount of money on a tattoo? >> No. >> Look at me. Do you think I could pull a tattoo off? Absolutely, man.

>> Uh so up next we have uh Aaron. But

before we get to Aaron, I want to remind everybody this whole night brought to you by our friends at Fair Winds Credit Union. Thank you so much to Fairwinds.

All right, let's go to Aaron. Is this you, Aaron? Hi. How are you?

>> Hi. >> Where are you from? >> Um I'm originally from Chicago, but I've lived in Denver since 2001.

>> Okay. What's your question? >> Um well, I have been following the Ramsay program for about a year and a half. I'm on baby step six and um I

noticed you guys do a lot of events for like couples like love and marriage and things like that and I was wondering uh as a financially responsible single person if you're ever going to do singles events.

>> Oh boy, John, that's like your Super Bowl event, isn't it?

>> What do you think about that?

>> I think we might have done it tonight.

>> I know. We started, didn't we?

[laughter] >> She wants to finish that. No.

>> Who do you have your eye on?

>> I did not I only saw a back of heads.

>> Listen, before this thing started, we got to talk to um a select group of this

audience.

>> There's a single guy in here. He started his own business and his mom is here

now. He's with a woman, but they're not together. >> Oh, [laughter] >> they made it very clear they're just co-workers. He might be right here on

the front row.

>> I would like to interview his mother first. >> Well, you just made that real weird.

>> Yeah, >> I do think this is fun. Uh, I will tell you, if there is a single guy in this audience that would like to meet Aaron,

now is your moment.

>> Oh my god. >> Do we have a brave soul? I won't linger.

>> Aaron, just relax. I got this.

[laughter] We need like some romantic music.

>> Well, you know, I might break out of some Barry White if somebody makes a move. Anybody going once, twice?

>> Wait a second. I see movement over here.

What is happening? >> They're pointing.

>> This guy, he does not look receptive.

Okay. All right, sir. I can tell you're very uncomfortable right now. >> He He lives in Fair Play, though. Isn't that >> you know him? >> Is that who you're pointing to? No, the the guy with the truck.

>> He has an AWESOME PAID OFF TRUCK.

>> BUT HE LIVES IN Fair Play. OH, THE SINGLE DAD. OKAY, I didn't see you there. It's dark. Oh, boy. [laughter] This would make my career if we pulled this off. All right. Any any single guy that wants to meet Aaron and if she's willing to go on a date with you, Ramsey Solutions will pay for the first date.

You just got to tell our team. >> We'll pick somewhere nice. >> That's the best I can do. [laughter] And they're paying cuz we're paying. You know what I'm saying? >> I love that. >> We'll give them an envelope [laughter] >> just to see if they're the real deal.

You know what I mean? The guy's got to break it out, get his 20s. >> Oh gosh, that brings up another question. >> Oh, go. You go on a date and the guy busts out coupons.

>> Yes. >> Is this good or is this bad? This is fine. This is fine for you.

>> That is instantaneous. Bye, Felicia. We gone. [laughter] >> Or how does Dave >> See you later, Felicia. >> This how Dave says it on the air.

>> See you later, Felicia.

>> This is what when I make fun of Dave, this is what he says. Hold on. Let me see if I can get this. >> Shut up, Ken. [laughter] >> Okay, Erin. I don't know. It's not a part of John's master plan. It doesn't >> We won't probably put it on your list.

>> We'll put on a list. Um I'm afraid of

singles events because

it's a mixture of very awesome people.

And >> that's life. >> Not [laughter] >> at least everybody following Ramsay if you guys do the events. >> Yeah. You know, I just realized something. For decades, three plus decades, Dave has said, "Be like weird people." And if you get a bunch of weird people, it's like a dog whistle singles cruise. >> Oh, Lord have mercy. I'm not going on that one. >> Now you're talking. >> I'm not going on that one. [laughter] Are you going to anchor that one?

>> Zero chance. George Camel will though.

>> Oh, that's fun. You're a great sport.

Everybody give Aaron some love. Thank you. [applause] All right, I do want to ask James Charles a question really quick. What if we did a singles hour on the show and we only took calls from singles about money and dating?

What do you think? Do we ever get enough? >> I think it have to be video calls to make it really and we would post their uh cell number on YouTube in the lower third. >> James did not agree to that.

>> I think if if anyone's going to create like a sing like a Ramsay dating app, I think it would be your brand, John. No question. >> I think we need to I think we need to figure this out. >> I think it's a whiteboard session.

>> I think we need to figure >> We owe Aaron that. At least >> we do.

>> I think that's a great filter it. All these dating apps filter for height and how much money do you make. We just want to know if you owe anybody any money.

>> Yeah. No photos. >> No, just baby step. You know, I think

you got to see if they match on baby steps and values and then we show them the photos. That makes it interesting.

It's probably a horrible idea, but I'm just fresh. I'm ideating right now. It's off the cuff. [laughter] All right, we'll move on. WHERE IS OH, NELSON IS THERE. EVERYBODY give Nelson some love. [cheering] Nelson,

where are you from, sir?

>> Uh, Gley, Colorado. >> Get close to that mic. Yeah.

>> Oh, Greley's in the house. Are these your family members? >> No, no, [laughter] no. Okay, great. They are now.

>> Are you single? >> Uh, no. No. My girlfriend's here. Yeah.

>> Oh, that's awkward. Okay, that's great.

[laughter] How How long have you been in the Ramsay gang?

>> I'm not going to lie. Um, I just found you guys to be honest. And it's through my girlfriend. >> Where is your girlfriend? >> Right here. Right. >> She was the progressive young lady that said she should pay. Did you ask him out? >> Yeah, she did. >> And did she pay? >> Uh, no. No. I So, [laughter] okay.

>> Uhoh. >> Yeah. So she she paid because she's the one that asked me out. So >> I feel like you changed your answer there in front of all of us.

>> Maybe. >> Have you ever done Have you ever run for office or anything like that?

>> You'd be great. >> You would be amazing at it. [laughter] >> You'd be great. Anyway, what's your question? >> Uh about a year ago, I was actually in an accident um a car accident. A guy on

meth rear ended me. >> Oh no. Glad you're okay, man.

>> Yeah. Sent me to the hospital and everything. Uh but because of that um

yeah I didn't know what I was going to do with my life at that point. Uh things kind of changed. I was in flight school uh through my community college and because of the concussion and everything like that unfortunately I couldn't um I couldn't continue. >> Oh man. So sorry about that.

>> It's and it's one of those things to where um she helped me through like to

change my life or help me change my life. And so while I was home, um, she

kind of got me with you guys. And my question really is, I'm getting a large

settlement through the accident. Um, I

don't know much about finance. I'm not going to lie. And I don't really know what to do like the first steps on with this large chunk of money that I've never had this much money before. What should I do with it or how should I invest it? >> Do you feel comfortable saying the chunk of money? >> Yeah. So, right now, my bank account's sitting at about $60,000.

>> Okay. And that's the only chunk. Will there be more in dispersements or that's it? >> That's the total right there. >> Okay. Where are you in the baby steps?

Are you familiar? >> Uh, not too much. She was showing me, but not really. >> Okay, great. >> She's saying four. >> Just four. No debt.

>> Yeah. So, because of the accident, the first round of settlement, um, she convinced me you should just pay off all your debt. You're going to zero everything out. Uh you'll have no money in your bank account, but you'll have no debt at all. >> And how much was that that you paid off?

>> Um about 3540,000.

>> Okay. So you paid that off. Were you able to set some money aside for baby step three like an emergency fund?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So this money essentially there it's not earmarked for anything. You've started investing 15%.

>> Well, so yeah, I I'm trying to figure out exactly like um to be honest what to

do with it. Are you able Are you able to work now? >> Yes. >> Okay. Are you going to have lingering recurring health issues that this money is going to be you're going to need it down the road? >> The VA has been able to help me with it.

>> Okay. >> Cool. So, what's the living situation?

Are you renting? Are you thinking of buying? That's what I'm looking at with this money first off. >> Uh we're currently just renting. Uh she

uh actually is um well, I don't want to steal her thunder or anything like that, but we've both been kind of um um slowly

putting our finances together. Okay. I'd probably keep this money in a high yield for a while. It It sounds like the next thing on your list is probably going to be a residence of your own. Okay.

>> And you're going to want a down payment for that. >> I'm guessing 60 is a great place to start. I don't know what real estate's going for around here, average price, but my guess is it's pretty pretty >> a lot of chuckles from the Gley factory.

[laughter] >> My guess is it's rather high. Um >> a little steep. >> Yeah, a little steep. Exactly.

That's what I'd be thinking of. And I'm guessing it's shorter than a 5year horizon. >> Yes. >> Yeah.

>> So, yeah, I'd keep it there. Um, the hard part is going to be you were given a windfall and that and that's what caused you to pay off your debt. >> And for most of us, maybe not most of us, for a lot of us, the way we pay off our debt is we go, "Oh, the way I was living wasn't working for me. It wasn't sustainable.

I have to change my ways." and then we put in a bunch of effort to change that for you. You're going to have to make sure that you have had that aha moment.

going to get pled away on the same things that the the original $30,000. Do you see what I'm saying? So, that's going to be your personal homework that you're going to have to work through. Okay. >> Um, but I think you've got it.

>> One thing I heard, John, I heard you guys are slowly combining finances.

>> Mhm. >> But you're not married. >> No. Oh, so we've been uh dating since 2022.

>> Also, still not married.

>> Wrap it up. Take4 to $8,000 and put

[laughter] >> Look, she just looked at him. >> Yeah, I know. >> She's like, I've been telling him. >> So, here's the thing. None of us would

have a job. >> Mhm. >> If everyone's plans worked out. You're up here because you were sitting at a stoplight and somebody changed your life like this, right? And so

I'm going to strongly recommend y'all

been together for a long time. She's a pretty amazing woman. She's walked with you emotionally, physically, like spirit. Like she's with you, right? Ride or die. Okay. A What are you waiting for, man? And B. Um,

yet even though I would not combine

finances until you are officially married, I wouldn't buy a house together unless you're married.

>> Because here's the thing. I know y'all like it would never happen to us. The number of calls we've taken over the years of we were engaged for four years, we were together for this long and then something happened and we broke up and we don't have the legal protection to untangle everything. And so I wouldn't

combine your money. I'd keep your money separate from hers until y'all are married. And when you the day you get married, you get one checking account.

Everything goes in one. We're not going to slowly combine. Dude, we're getting married. We're going to put this thing in here and then we're going to do ride or die till death do us a part.

>> Okay. >> Right. Is that cool? >> That's awesome. >> Uh, one thing, uh, if it's okay with you guys, uh, can I get her up here real quick? >> No. No. It's not like that. Please tell me. >> MY HEART. MY HEART.

>> But what's the matter with you?

>> Well, no. It's not, >> dude. That is not a cool head fake.

[laughter] Oh man, >> bless her heart. >> I thought it was about to happen. >> Me, too. >> I was going to sing. >> I was getting my Barry White voice ready. [laughter] >> Okay, Nelson, what's happening right now? >> Uh, so we were trying to visit you and uh visit the show in Nashville.

Unfortunately, it was something really big to her. Uh, she's been going through a very um like when like you said, like

this all this money and everything came in my lap, I was able to pay off debt for her. She's been fighting she's been fighting in paying off uh debt slowly and slowly. Um she applied to to try to

do um uh you know the death free scream

on your show >> and um yeah I just wanted to give her

that opportunity if that's okay.

>> What say you can?

>> Well Nelson you put me in a tough spot buddy. [laughter] >> I'll trade you a scream for a will you marry me.

[cheering]

Wow.

>> Did I do that, James? >> I just made things real weird. Have you ever >> Did you just say I'll take that? >> Did you say that? >> Wait a second. >> As in right now. >> I'll take that. >> Okay. Get down on one knee.

>> Katie, let Katie get up there. >> Wait a minute. I I got to get my phone out. Can I tape it? >> Yeah. Can we get your phones out? This is exciting. >> I got to get my I got to get my phone.

>> Katie's going to hold the mic for you, Nelson. Do it right, my man. Get down on one knee. Oh boy.

>> So Roy, um you've been everything to me.

Um I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you. You've changed my life in ways that

I never thought that was possible. Um

and um [clears throat] yeah, I never thought I never thought I would be in a situation to where I could um love

someone as much as you. And um I want to

know will you marry me? [cheering]

[applause and cheering]

>> She said yes, ladies and gentlemen.

[applause] [cheering] Wow.

>> [applause]

>> Nelson. Nelson, while she gathers herself, tell us your your your bride to be's name. >> What is her name? >> Uh, Roy Ogden. >> Roy. >> Yes. >> Okay, let's give the mic to Royce. Roy,

what is going through your head right now? Tell us.

>> I wasn't expecting any of this.

>> No. [laughter] Hey, neither was John. That's the best part.

That never works. >> That never works. I'm stunned right now.

Okay, we're going to James, we're going to pay this off. So, you guys know how we do this on the show. This is going to be amazing. Okay, Royce, how much debt have you paid off in how long? Tell us your story. >> I paid off about $35,000 worth of debt.

>> In how long? >> Uh 24 months. >> 24 months. >> Awesome. >> That's awesome.

Tell us what the debt was. What kind of debt was it? >> It was primarily credit card debt. um

and a little bit of medical debt. And while paying off all of this debt, I stopped twice to cash cash flow to

emergencies with my health, uh totaling

about $25,000.

>> Wow. >> You're so amazing. [applause]

What happened 24 months ago where you said, "This is it. I'm getting debtree." What happened? I was watching a lot of

the financial YouTube videos trying to figure out what I was doing with my life. I had just gotten off a work injury and it was just so hard to make ends meet on only 40 hours a week, which is insane.

Um, once I sat down and I did the math, I realized I was hemorrhaging about $400 or $500 a month just because of my debt payments. And if I hadn't had them, my work injury wouldn't have ever been an issue. >> Wow.

35,000 20 plus 25 that's 60 grand and

plus you cash I mean it's unbelievable all right so for people who are sitting in this room and who are watching on YouTube they're blown away by what's just happened what would you say to them is the key to getting out of debt [snorts] >> I think the key is probably setting the

goal and walking yourself through getting there um there were a lot of points where it's it felt like I just wasn't making any progress and it was

hard and the medical issues kept feeling like setbacks, but really they um it was

an absolute blessing to be able to get through them cash flowing instead of taking out any more debt.

>> Love it. And during this time, you were also loving and honoring a veteran who

was struggling with his health too, right? >> Yes. It was because of going through all of this and the Ramsay process. It was about halfway through this that his emergency happened. >> You're an amazing woman.

>> Yeah. a question. Both of them possible.

>> It's awesome.

[applause] >> Having all of these changes took it from an emergency to an inconvenience.

>> Awesome. All right, Royce, you ready to do your debtree scream? I know you couldn't make it to Nashville. We're going to do it right here. And these people are going to lose their ever loving minds. Are you ready?

>> Do I hold the mic away or do I >> give it all you got? Rick, you do Hey, listen. You do your screen the way you want to do it. I'm going to do a version of it. Okay, I'm going to lead you through this. Where are you from?

>> I'm from Gley, Colorado. >> Okay, here we go. So, we got Royce from Gley, Colorado. She paid off $35,000

in 24 months while cash flowing another

25 with health emergencies, dragging

poor Nelson along. God bless his heart.

She's helping him. She's an amazing woman. You are the poster child for

anybody who lays eyes or their ears on this show. You can do it and they can do it. Let's hear your debtree scream.

Count it down.

>> Three, two, one. I'm debtree.

[applause]

Wow.

[applause]

Wow. Wow. Wow. Okay, we're going to keep this momentum going.

We didn't plan for that, but we did plan for this. And you know what's great? I see women snotting all over themselves. Men are wiping their eyes.

You two are such great sports. Thank you for that. Okay, here's what we're going to do. Okay, we thought it'd be fun.

Jade, get your calculator out cuz we're going to do something. Here's what we want to know. If you have become debtree in the last year, will you stand up? We're going to do a group debtree scream.

If you've paid off, if you've become debtree in the last year, stand up all around the building, wherever you are, stand up. If you've become debtree in the last year.

>> Yeah, you can clap for him. That's cool.

Look at this.

All right. So, here's what we're going to do. Jade's got her calculator. James is backing her up. I'm going to go around the room and we're just going to quickly get the amount that you paid off. Okay. Is there anybody up in the upper deck? >> I see. Okay. How much did you pay off?

>> 268. 268,000.

Excellent. Anybody else up top?

>> 40,000. >> 40,000.

And anybody else up there?

>> 36,000. >> 36,000.

>> Got it. >> Did I get everybody up there?

>> 7500.

>> 75,000. >> Dang, son. >> Are you up to date on that? >> I got it. >> Anybody else up top?

>> Okay. Now, we'll come over here. And I don't think I see Okay, ma'am. Your number. >> 47,000. 47,000, sir.

>> About 300. >> 300,000.

Amazing. All right. Next. Right back here. This couple right here, ma'am in the white coat and the guy with the hat.

>> 100. >> 100,000. Okay. Couple right. Sit down.

Couple right in front of them.

>> 28,000. >> 28,000. Ma'am, right here.

>> 55,94.

>> We'll round it up to 56,000.

>> No, I got it. 55,931.

>> Don't mess with Jade. Okay, ma'am. Right here. >> 90,000. >> 90,000.

Uh, right here.

>> You paid off the house.

>> Paid off the house. >> 60. >> 60,000.

>> Okay, great. And oh, we already got yours, but let's get the number. 35,000 for Royce.

>> This couple >> 235,000. Deb, our favorite person in the world. >> 102,000. And right here in front

>> 120. Did I miss Oh, sorry.

cash flowing about $50.

>> Wow. I'm gonna put it at 150 then.

>> We'll go 150. Way to go. Is that everybody?

>> All right, Jade and James, we'll check your T. What do you got?

>> Announce it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. Drum roll, please. In the last

year, this room has paid off. That's

correct. You say it.

>> 1.741 million. How about that?

>> Wow. >> So, now you can stand back up.

>> Wow. >> For those of you that sat down, now you can stand back up. You've paid off debt in the last year. And John's got a fun idea. >> Yeah. All right. So, um, anybody else in the room who has debtree who wants to

join us in this debtree scream? Stand up. Everybody. Everybody. No conditions.

Debtree all around the house. Up and down. Let's do a group debtree scream.

John, would you like to count us down from three? Let's I'm going to do it.

>> Don't be the weird people that count up.

>> No. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. It's so true.

>> Denver, Colorado, you paid off $1.7

million. Plus everybody else who stood up here. Let's count it down and do a giant Denver debtfree scream. Three,

two, one.

>> Yes. Cheer for yourself.

How about that?

>> Wow. >> So fun. >> Congratulations. >> You guys are amazing. Uh hey, uh before

we sign off tonight, we'll have a final word of encouragement, but I want to do something we did in Charlotte. Uh it's so amazing to get out from Nashville, our beautiful headquarters, and get out on the road and do the show. But we couldn't do this. We are sitting and standing on the shoulders of an amazing team. If you're on the Ramsay team, uh would you stand up? or if they're behind cameras, would you give some love to our amazing crew, James Childs, Chris Wright, led our entire team? These men and women are fantastic. [applause]

So, I just want to say thank you to them.

Final word, 30 seconds from your heart to these people, John, what's on your heart for them? >> Um, it's easy to get stuck in you owe

money. Childhood was hard. You got you

got debt payments. You got car wrecks.

Listen to me. You are worth the work to

be well. You're worth the work. And it's hard. And it's long. And like you, you

amazing single father with with the awesome truck that you're probably going to sell even though I'd probably keep.

Listen, you're worth the grind. You're worth the work. You're worth being free. Thank you

for being here tonight.

>> That's so good. [applause]

I'm just reflecting back on all the stories that we heard tonight and all of you were so brave to share with us and I'm so grateful that you trusted us with your stories and I just I mean my favorite verse Galatians 6:9 you know don't grow weary and welloing at the right time at the proper time you'll reap a harvest of blessing if you don't give up if you don't faint. I'm thinking about Royce. I'm thinking about our friend who was smiling like the sun who was working so so hard. I'm thinking about that single dad.

I'm thinking about all those stories tonight.

harvest if you don't give up, if you don't faint. Please don't give up.

Please keep going. I I just know it. You guys have such a wonderful, beautiful future in front of all of you. Keep going.

[applause] >> Hey, Ken, before you give your last words, Nelson Royce, I'd like y'all to be my guest in October for the Money and Marriage Conference in Nashville. If y'all can make it there, I'll pay for your your tickets. Okay, [applause] cool.

Very nice. Well, John, Jade, uh, and to

those of you in the room and those of you watching on YouTube, wherever you're watching, however you're watching, the word that keeps popping up to me tonight as I've just been able to observe is strength.

Just tremendous strength. And I think that's what I'd want to share with you. You know, uh there's so many stories in this room and of people that are watching and we'll never hear those stories, but the commonality between

anybody that wins with money is strength. The

journey is so very difficult. No matter

how much debt you're paying off, whether it's 20,000 or 200,000, we've had people on the air that have paid off $2 million.

The struggle is absolutely real, but you

have the strength to do it. And I'm

reminded of story after story after

story in the time that I've had to sit on the Ramsay Show and listen to everyday women and men who have just overcome so much to get peace. And for

those of you that are still on the journey, you didn't stand up tonight. I don't want you to feel left out. I want you to feel inspired by looking at the men and women around you who stood up.

The men and women that you saw on camera as you were watching on YouTube, you're listening, however you're taking this night in. I want you to understand that there's no difference between them and you. You can do it. You have the

strength to do it. Focus on your life,

nobody else's life. Focus on what you can do in the moment. One foot forward

every day. Just one foot. and keep the

eye on the prize. As Philippians said,

I'm looking at the finish line. What does the finish line look like for you?

Where do you want to be? Keep it top of mind and you can win. And I'm telling you, we believe in you. On behalf of the

over a thousand Ramsay Solutions teammates that are supporting us back in Nashville, on behalf of Dave Ramsey, who couldn't be with us here tonight, on behalf of my colleagues, Dr. John Deloney and Jade Warshaw, I want you to know we love you. We appreciate you. We believe in you. We're behind you. You can do this. Thank you guys. You've been an amazing crowd. Thank you. [applause]

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## 229. The Ramsey Show | Replay for November 28, 2024


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:18:06 |

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[Music]

brought to you by the every dooll app start budgeting for free

[Music]

today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the Ramy show where

we help people build wealth do work that

they love and create actual amazing

relationships Jade washaw number one

best-selling author Ramsey personal my

co-host today open phones at

88255 225 you jump in we'll talk about

your life and your money Kurt starts Us

in New Jersey hey Kurt what's

up hi how's it going Dave better than I

deserve man how can I help um I have a little bit of a business question so I have 57k in

personal debt um I started my business

less than a year ago I'm I've been

pulling out everything that I make from the business business all my profits in

order to pay off my personal debt I have

no business debt um I was just kind of

wondering I feel like I'm not able to grow the business because I don't have

retained earnings I don't feel comfortable hiring somebody without retained earnings um and I I was

wondering too if I should keep some retained earnings just to maintain overhead um what would you suggest in

terms of how I should go about that yeah

I would I would um you know you can what

how much have you pulled out of the business in a year what are you

making um so year to date I made about

80k way to go I would say my profit

margin is about 80% good for I've been

pulling out everything a little bit of a

tidbit too is I have a four-week old right now oh wow that's fun

congratulations what what kind of business did you open uh Physical Therapy I'm a physical

therapist wow good for you yeah okay

what we teach in onree leadership is

that you pay yourself a living wage or

you pay yourself a salary an amount that

you're comfortable with that you can

make progress on the the goals at home

which would include debt um you don't

have any debt at the business so you

could just say I'm going to take a

percentage of profit 10% 15% 20%

something like that and every month and

hold that as retained earnings and take everything else home and that way your retained earnings

grow as fast as your they grow as a

percentage of profits so as your profit grow your retained earnings

grow okay yeah that makes me feel a lot

more comfortable then yeah I mean if you had 8,000 bucks laying over there because you did 10% or you had 16,000 L

over there because you did 20% you've be in really really good shape yeah so then it's definitely more

than the 1,000 that would keep in for

exact the security exactly this is the

different formula because it's business that we're dealing with but yeah that's what we teach Entre leaders so what we do at ramsy and we laughingly call it

the Sharon fund because I was draining

everything out of here and then griping

about cash flow problems all the time

and Sharon's like well you you you're

not even doing what you teach you don't have an emergency fund you goober you're a hypocrite and I'm like oh God she's

right again so we called it the Sharon

fund when we first start doing it and so

you know it's it's we've been taking a

percentage of profits from Day from the

day that I discovered that my wife is

brilliant you know on so yeah well when

Sam and I started our business it was a

similar thing we had we still had about

$240 some odd, that we were paying off

and I mean we drained all the profits paid off and the the most painful part was you know you're taking this payroll and then you're turn around paying taxes on it yep and then you're using it to pay off all this debt and but for us it

felt a little different because it was just the two of us at the time we had very low overhead there wasn't a lot of risk involved and so yeah and make sure

whatever you're taking home that you're withholding on it so that you can do your quarterly estimates you don't want to get behind with the KGB I mean the

IRS yeah no yeah yeah definitely yeah

okay so as long as you're doing that yeah I just take pick a percentage I don't care my recommendation would be 10

to 20 somewhere in that range of net

profits and each month when you close your books go Boop going to set that aside over here take everything else home and attack the 57 and get done with

it and you know be able to buy diapers

for the four-week hold yeah everything works very cool good stuff man

congratulations sound like you got it going I'm proud of you Allan in Fort

Worth hey Alan how are you oh I'm doing

well sir thank you so much for taking my call sure how can we help well so uh

here's the detail um so my wife and I

were in baby step two and uh we're just

trying to figure out when does it makes sense to pause baby step two in order to

save for a beater car uh yeah what are

you talking about why why you don't have a car or what's the situation so the

situation is uh we're I have a car now

got a big well not a big loan on it it's

$24,000 and you know we're I guess we're

trying to do the whole gazelle intense

thing and I'm just thinking well oh if

you got a beater you would sell the 24

yes sir okay what what's your household

income uh so all said uh so about 6,000

months from my primary job I have a secondary job I get maybe 500 a month and then VA disability so um around 75

100 a month as take home okay all right

and so you have that car and it's worth

is it worth around the 24 or what's it worth it is so it's uh looked at Kelly

Blue Book and right now I it looks like

it's selling for about 225 but um okay

what's the other car uh that that's it that's all I mean

that's that's you have one car I'm sorry

we have another car which what's the other car uh Honda Civic okay what's it

worth well one's like eight probably

worth 8,000 that's no other car yeah there's two rules of thumb we use when someone asks this question number one

don't have vehicles ever in your life

that have Motors and wheels anything

with a motor or wheel added together

that equal more than about half your annual income because you have too much tied up in things going down in value agreed you're not violating that one

okay okay and the second one is can we be debt free everything with the house in around two years so we know we got 24

in debt what other debt have you got uh

about 3,000 credit card debt and that's

that's all the debt you like the

car it is a good car I mean then pay it

off okay you can be debt-free inside of

two years easy probably about 18 months or less

you're making 90 we need to pay off 25

Grand 26 Grand you can do that okay yeah

I agree yeah so yeah so you can do it

inside of two years and the total is less than a half your annual income that's the to tests that we use the

means test if you will to do that and

folks let me got tell you that's not a

um biblical thing in terms of it's not

in the Bible cuz yeah um I mean the only

thing that's in the Bible is the Honda Accord because Jesus said they were all in one Accord but um but other none of

the rest of them are in the Bible so you

just add it all up and uh the problem is

that we all in America love cars uh some

people love cars cuz they're redneck like me and they want a muffler some people like a battery called a Tesla

some people like like Rachel and George they want to catch fire to themselves and um and then some people like my wife

likes a a nice car cuz she thinks it's a

large purse and so um but that you know we

like cars in America and the stupid things go down in value and when you take 60 or

$70,000 and you turn it into

$10,000 this is not a wealth building

methodology and and it's the largest

thing Americans buy that goes down in value because you are what you drive in

America it's such an identity piece MH

and man it's um I never thought about

that Georgia is a battery you are what you drive yeah I'm

a loud Muffler so who knew that's funny

yeah but the uh um my neighbor said

there they goes I know when you go to

work so how do you know when I go to work he goes I can hear it you're so

that's who I'm hearing

driving driving down the road oh my gosh

good to know uh once a redneck always a redneck this is the ramsy [Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us

guys we appreciate you being with us hey

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uh just man pretty incredible Andrew is

with us in Lexington Kentucky hi Andrew

how are you hi Dave how are you better

than I deserve what's up hey uh so how do I pay off my debt if

a good portion over half of my income uh

goes to child support and

taxes um how many kids do you have

I have three total two are on child

support well if you have kids you do have to pay

for them and so that's just part of I

think that's part of normal life if you have kids in a family same thing with the taxes and so in this case it's

really just about the math right if you want to go faster usually the solution is you got

to bring in more income and more money

so what do you bring it in right

now uh I I average about gross uh

probably about over three but I only bring in

probably about um maybe 12 to 15 a

month yes 1,500 a month okay something

is wrong with that because in Kentucky

two children child supports

25% well I have two from two separate

moms okay oh so you got 20% each

uh the my

daughter uh when we went to court and

stuff uh they did not properly send me

paperwork and the lawyer I had at the

time before I found a different lawyer

was not in contact with the child support office so I ended up missing

that court date um so they went for Max

of what they could even with my other uh C or child

support that I

have okay um well I mean there's two

things we can do here to work on this

um understanding that what Jade said is

proper and I assume you agree with that that you need to pay for your kids there's no question about that but how am I how can I mathematically make this work so there is a legal amount in every

state I do not know if it's two children

from two different people if it changes

it but the max in KY is 25% for two kids

okay and if you're being charged more

than that um you can go back before

Child Services back before the judge and

have it set up properly and so make sure

you're getting charged the right amount and that you're doing that willingly and

gladly because you're a good man and you want to take care of your kids okay uh

but if you've got if you're being

overcharged uh because of a screw up

well go back and have have the screw up fixed it's not it's not ever it's not chiseled in stone you just got to get back before the judge and go your honor here's what I've got here's my budget help me with this tell me what I'm supposed to do I'm not trying to dodge here but I'm also can't breathe and so I

you know I want to sit down and look at that and so you've got to get back and and reset this to what it should legally

and for that matter morally be then the

other side of the equation is what Jade said and that start talking about how we can increase your income what can you do

instead of making 3,000 a month to make 6,000 a month and that may be side hustles it

may be career change it may be something

different but um one of the things we

see Andrew often it's almost every

single debt-free scream that comes in here and is on the stage had an increase

in income during the time they're getting out of debt it's vital because

the two things that you can do is you can cut expenses or or and you can

increase your income so there comes a point where you can only cut expenses so much and then you say okay what else can I do and then it's okay I'm increasing my income I'm picking up a side hustle I'm taking overtime anything that will pay

me that is legal and moral I'm going to

do that to get money serious money yeah

I mean we had a young lady uh in her 20s

that paid off uh doing a debt free scream uh that just just the other day

that um were you on with me yes I will

never forget tended bar $99,000 a month

single mom yep bartending

beating alcoholism yeah and doing 75 hard at the

same time yeah and you know $99,000 a

month but she's working 12 our days at the bar you know yeah um and uh that's

hard work by the way if you didn't know so um wow so I I'm not I don't know

Andrew but Jade's right there's only two ends of the equation I'd work both of them and that's be paying the proper

amount of Child Support by the law and

if you need to do an appearance before the judge in order to get that fixed that's there's nothing wrong with that

um and then uh and then increase your

income you know lower your expenses

increase your income and uh that's what

we're doing so good question sir we

appreciate you joining us open phones at

8825 5225 you jump in we'll talk about your

life and your money I will tell you this

something he brought up we hear a lot

and uh not necessarily exactly the way

that he said it or and I don't know his exct situation but here's the thing if you

know there is a thing out there coming

at you you have a former landlord that says

you owe them money that's a thing that's

laying out there you have a repossessed

car it's a thing that's laying out there

they're going to come at you you've got an old credit card from 5 years ago

you've not paid it they've not called you but you've done nothing about it

it's coming at you you're going through

a divorce um and you know when you go

through a divorce and you have children 100% of the time there's a child support

meeting that's coming at you when you

know these things are coming at you one

of the things I've observed is that if

you don't go headlong into it and face

it and handle it before it comes to you

mhm it costs you twice as much if you

wait till the former landlord sues you

if you wait till the old credit card

pops up it's going to pop up right about the time you're trying to buy a house or something or about the time you're getting engaged or some other kind of crap these things have a high rate of

Resurrection they come back to life

These are debt zombies yeah you got to

be proactive and you you know if you

don't go find the debt zombie and handle

it so don't don't tell me well they didn't tell me about child support dude you knew about child support youd go down there and fix it 100% instead

instead they they jacked you up cuz you weren't there because you down the court

and make sure it was taken care of you got to wander down there and take care of the stuff boys and girls you know

it's it's like well I didn't know I didn't know I had a CR yes you knew you had a credit card debt you did know that

you know you weren't that drunk for that

long eventually you sobered up and go

yeah I ran the B balance up on that thing you know I mean you've got you do

know it happened and so this stuff it it

you know it comes back to life and it's

10x worse than if you had gone and found

it and taken care of it yourself don't

let these things lay out there in the in

in the muck because when they come back to life they're the swamp monster monster and they're they're three times

more powerful just you know you've got

to face these things head on so when you

don't take care of business business will take care of your butt that's what I'm saying this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause]

Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

co-host today in the lobby of ramsy

Solutions on the debt Street free stage

Kevin and Shaban are with us hey guys

how are you hi Dave hi Dave great

welcome welcome where do you guys live Cincinnati Ohio wow welcome to Nashville

and how much debt have you two paid off

$84,000 wow how long did this take 28

months good for you and your range of income during that time 158 to 200 cool

what do youall do for a living I'm in engineering operations and I am a

stay-at-home mom um homeschool my kids

and I've done some side jobs with just

like our homeschooling group teaching

good for you well done what kind of debt

was this 84k daveid was our house you

paid off your house looking at weird

people and we were saying that before the political people were saying it I'm just saying all right hey guys way to go

congratulations thank you I love it how

what's the house worth 475 I love it how

old are you two 43 or both 43 43y old

weirdos wow a paid for house how much in

your uh nest egg in your retirement accounts and so forth 625 uhoh baby

steps millionaires too at 43 boom boom

look at you how's that feel it's I never

thought I would be here it's amazing life changing congratulations proud of you all excellent so tell us your story what was

your I've had it moment what turned this whole thing around how didd you get connected to us I've probably been

connected to you for about a decade I think our story starts back in 2007 we

were just married I was living we were living up in Detroit area and I was work in the automotive industry and if you remember 2007 2008 was a real great time

um up in Detroit uh the company that I worked for was actually sold uh to a

leverage buyout company uh malan had

just been born in May 3rd and that was

the same day we decided we need to get out of here and we actually put our house on the market the day she was born

the day she was born yeah that's yeah

and uh we are out of here yes and the

real estate market was awful it took us five months to sell the house and I still remember to this day we had to write a $20,000 check and bring it to

closing just to get rid of the house and it wiped out our life savings and we looked at each other and it wasn't anything we had done wrong but we just said we never want to feel like this

again and uh was at that point I was

able to get a job in Ohio with and my parents lived down there and we actually moved in with my parents and lived with our daughter meline for the first year

just to just to climb back out cuz we

everything we'd save for was was gone

everything we'd save for was gone wow

and and then you end up buying a house yes and said but we're going to get it paid off fast yep okay cool and and you

were connected to us way back in Detroit

uh I think I may have started listening to it just a little bit but then really got connected once we moved moved down to I probably listened to you for over a decade so for a long time for a long time well it worked your baby step's millionair thank you from from having

from being broken living in your daddy's basement yeah oh my God it was actually upstairs it was in the basement put him

in the basement okay all right either

way I got you the attic okay wow

congratulations YN thank you so tell us what does it look like for a lot of people don't believe that you could pay

off your mortgage one day right that's not something people talk about every day unless you're here on the Ramsey Network right so so tell people what

does that look like what what what do you do in order to be able to pay off your mortgage so it it was about a

couple years ago Siobhan I mean meline is 17 now and she was you know she'll be starting College next year and I think I was just looking at the the principal like the amount I just started kind of doing the numbers in my math and I was like if I really if we if we really

focus on this we can get this thing paid off and it just just you had this

Clarity of thought like if we really focus on this we can get it done and then you start making the payments and the bonuses and just put it down it's like holy cow it's just unbelievable detraction that you can achieve when you you average three or four grand a month for 28 months and you were done yes but

there's still that intentionality of taking the numbers out of the air right and putting them on paper putting them in your every dollar budget yes wow yeah

so uh I I got a feeling I know who the nerd is in the family and um so you came

out of your cave with your spreadsheet and what did your wife say I I think

fortunately I listened to you long enough that we dreamed together we had

the why we have had the why conversation for a long time we talked about what we

want our lives to be like when we're older and so we had that discussion the

why discussion we dreamed in high definition as you said early on we talked about traveling and helping our kids pay for school and the biggest

thing for Siobhan was we had a really challenging time with mine when she was little she had some health issues and she said I want to be able to be able to

go when my children when I have my grandchildren and just stay with them whether it's a week or it's a month or whatever it is that they need I want to have that freedom to be able to go help with my grandchildren that was her that was one of her Dreams yeah and that's

called Financial Independence so to

speak it's not you're not independent you're actually interdependent but yeah

Wow way to go guys thank you very cool

you guys are heroes you go you go from broke to

millionaire in 10 years I mean that's

pretty incredible it's just one day I

would say it's also one day at a time too and just saying focused on that um

and the Small Things add up too mhm and

being content and realizing that stuff

doesn't make you happy you know the other gift that's

hidden inside this story is you got

these beautiful kids over here that are

living in your home being homeschooled

and they're breathing this air of

contentment they're breathing this air

of living on less than we make and uh

they're breathing air that's not in other homes and so they can't help but

be formed by that and so if they're ever

in their own home and they're not it doesn't the air doesn't feel like that then they know something's wrong and so

you've set a pattern for them More's caught than taught Rachel says and she's right so I that's a pretty cool thing

it's a pretty cool parenting they're going to they're going to do what you do they're not going to do what you say

so uh pretty impressive how do you

celebrate what happens next yeah what's the big celebration big celebration is

actually M's graduating from high school so we're actually taking a nday Caribbean cruise next baby love that I

like it yes we should do that absolutely

y yeah the year she's born we sell our

house at a loss move into the attic and

the year she graduates by God we're

going on a cruise I like it this is this

a book ending right here man it's perfect it's the way it should be well done you guys very well done all right

bring up the kiddos let's meet them all and their uh names and ages please uh

Malin here is 17 right Nicholas is 12

and Samuel is 14 all right very good

good job you guys proud of y'all and I

assume they've been practicing their Deb free scream because their mom and dad are heroes yes they live with weirdos in

a debt free house debt free millionaires

at 42 freaking years old amazing shut up

this is great I'm so proud of y'all

you're just amazing just amazing all

right Kevin and shabon

Madeline Samuel and Nicholas Cincinnati

Ohio 84,000 paid off that's their house and

everything making them baby steps

millionaires in 28 months they paid off

the house making 158 to 200 count it

down let's hear a debt free Scream 3 2 1

we're de free

yeah woohoo woo good I love

it this uh 10 to 15 year time span it

was 2007 so I quoted that wrong it

wasn't 10 years so it would be 15 yeah

years or so 16 years they took them to

turn that the it it when you say I'm

going to become a millionaire most people think it takes 50 years your whole life yeah yeah and it's you know

it's going to take forever ever and I'm not going to have a life and I'll be 80 by the time I you know I'm going to live in a cave and collect lint until I'm 92

and old paper clips and whatever else

right it's just like oh God no it's not

how it works they're

42 they're going on a N9 day

cruise to celebrate this okay so if

you're 27 and you're whining about a

little bit of sacrifice shut up and do

the work I know wow Step Up seriously

cuz 40 is the new 30 I I thought 60 was but we can do that

[Laughter]

too apparently green is a new fashion

trend that's right you're on Trend Dave good job had no idea you and I were both dressed to join the Army today but we did so um hey we're we're a real team

around here we're more in sync than we realize way to go you guys we're got

give some of my hair

no oh oh man I'm proud of those people

what neat what a neat family this is the Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

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[Music]

thanks for joining us America Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my co-host

today Tony's in Chicago hi Tony welcome

to the Ramsey Show hi Dave thanks for

having me on the show sure what's up

well my mother passed away about 18 months ago she left me and my brother a

paid off home currently valued at

450,000 I'm executive on the house and

I'm trying to make a decision is to whether sell the house and have to throw

my brother out on the street or let him continue living there

okay

um well I assume he doesn't have the

money to buy out your half he does not

okay um I think it's a little dramatic

to say throw him out on the street he's going to have $200,000 in his pocket

when he lands on the street I feel the

same way yeah um um so I under what on what

planet does he think he gets to live there for free indefinitely

well he's been living there for free for about 15 years now he has an anxiety

disorder which led him to uh be

dependent on xanx he does not work his girlfriend

pays all his bills she's been living there for about nine years she's a disabled vet who works part time as a nurse my mother couldn't have the the

heart to put him out on the street and as a Christian I'm struggling too you know what's the right

decision okay I'm I'm not sure that

supporting or enabling

people's uh inability or unwillingness to deal

with their stuff is

non-Christian as a matter of fact it's

non-Christian to enable them to sit in

the sewage that we call their life right

now I loving them well would require

them to deal with their stuff and build a sustainable life and dignity right

that would be an act of

Love does that sound right

it's I agree Christian the definition of

Christian is not wimp it's not

doormat it's kind but it's also strong

and it's acting in others best interest

so what is best for your brother is for

him to heal to seek counsel and deal with the

anxiety and get off the drugs and you

know you know cuz the way you stay this

you don't believe that um you believe he's

escaping reality rather than dealing

with and getting better that's what the way I that's what I heard you saying did I miss something no I I I think you're

saying it correctly yeah and that's your

that's your viewpoint on it and so if

this is my friend or my brother loving

them well would be helping them do

better in their life not giving them a

cocoon to continue to retreat down into

a hole right so that see that's what

enabling your mom was an

enabler right and sweet all enablers are nice

people they're all they're the nicest

people on the planet because they don't want to do anything that causes conflict or raises an eyebrow so gosh I you

know I guess you've got two options one

is you do have to deal with this lovingly and help him get better and um

sit down with him and the parasite that

moved in with him and um the uh because

he attracted that with his life that's

what his life attracted and um uh uh you know helped

them deal with it and help them see a path of what they could do with the money from the house um or just deed it

to him and walk

away right which is honestly cowardice

yeah do you need the money it's a lot of money I definitely need the money yes I

do yes yeah I mean there is a practical

nature to this as well which is just

because he lived in the house for 15 years doesn't make it it wasn't his it's

not his house it wasn't his house his house and now you have ownership of it

and there's nothing wrong with you saying hey can you please this is $200,000 that you're holding hostage and

I really need access to that and there's

nothing wrong with with saying that and to Dave's Point you're not putting him on the street he's coming away with a

couple hundred, which is a nice chunk of

change and where where where is the

house where's the house M and in Niles

just outside of Chicago oh in Chicago area okay yeah Chicago area are you in

that area as well right yes okay well um

are you married no I am divorced um okay um I'm

just looking for the what the Dynamics are so um is there anyone in you and

your brother's life that could sit with

the two of you while you work on this

that could help uh kind of navigate

through all the

emotion well I haven't talked to my

brother in probably five months okay so

this makes it even more difficult he's

he's um basically just cut everybody off

in his life okay all right I I would

call him and and I would go over there

and it's half your house okay and say we

need to have a cup of coffee and I love

you and I want to be kind to you and

we've got to talk about what we're going to do here because I can tell you this

one of the options is not this is you

talking to your brother if if it's me you got to love him well enough to be strong and kind and just honey one of

the options is not you stay here free

the rest of your life that's not an

option I I'm the executive of the estate

and legally that gives me the power to

evict you and so you and I can do this

together nicely and we can figure out a

way to get the house sold or if you've got money that I don't know about you can buy me out I don't care but I'm not

going to sit here and do nothing and you

aren't either because I'm going to force

you to do these other things so I I really want to do this in a way that you

and I work together and we can be friends the rest of our life and um but

that's going to be up to you okay that's

what I'm telling him it's up to him how

he reacts to this situation because his

set of assumptions are completely immoral unethical and

unreasonable correct and and so he he he

can choose to react and act like you're

doing something wrong but you're not and

you have to go in knowing that and and

it so let me just tell you so you go over there the whole thing blows up he

has a fit acts like a for year old says

get out of here I'm going to shoot you

then you say all right here's what we're going to do you're going to be getting a letter from the attorney and the attorney's going to be telling you that you have 30 days to move and after that

we're going to evict you and after that

I'm going to sell the house and I will still send you your half of the house

once it's sold but you are leaving and

you chose poorly on how to react to this

it's still going down honey and then

just walk off and go get a

lawyer okay cuz that's probably what's

going to happen am I

right I'm I'm I'm really taking this to

Heart the the other thing in the in the

inter ter my father has gone ahead and he's taken $1,400 a month from his

future inheritance and he's given that to me as rent and he says well as long

as your brother's in there he said you're going to keep getting $1,400 a month and that'll go over to your inheritance but you know Dave as well as I know we don't have the crystal ball

that money could easily disappear down the road we don't know I don't like that

so your father also is an

enabler he's covering for him

too am I understanding that

right I think he was just feeling bad

for me and just the sit feeling bad for

you okay well it's both because he's

saying I'm essentially paying your brother's rent and if you let me pay

rent to you then you can let him stay in the house it's it's very Twisted all of it I mean I don't have to tell you that it's unhealthy you know unhealth Dynamic

I would rather him give your brother 1,400 to help him get counseling and go

to a rehab center and get go inpatient

treatment and get some help with the anxiety disorder so he can become uh

sustainable and healed I'd rather him

use the money for that and um and let

the lady who lives there's family take

care of her and you your dad help take

care of your brother and if you want to use some of the money from the house to take care of him if he's moving in positive steps I'd be willing willing to do that if I were you but I am not

willing to sit here and cause this

dysfunction to happen to me it is not

good for anyone in the story no one in

the story is winning correct no one in the story is

going to have a better life because of this so it just requires proactivity on

your part and I'm sorry but it's going to be you got a year of emotional hell

ahead of you you're going to get called

everything in the book before this is

over I'm sorry pick up Dr Henry Cloud's

book boundaries um you'll read it and

you'll go oh there's my family this is

the ramsy show [Music]

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today live from the headquarters of

ramsy solutions it's the ramsy show

where we help people build wealth do

work that they love and create made

actual amazing relationships I'm Dave

Ramsey your host J bosaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today thank you for

joining us America open phones here at

88255 225 the call is free and some say

the advice is worth exactly what you pay

for it Scott is in Baltimore hi Scott

welcome to the Ramsey Show uh good afternoon Dave and Jade how

are you doing today better than we deserve what's up

so I'm a 50y old 58y old single guy uh

getting tired of working I'm trying to get the retirement but I don't have

really anything saved I need to know how I should what I

should do to get there okay uh what do you

make uh 75 what do you

do uh I'm a trim Carpenter I trim

high-end houses and build some Custom

Cabinets as well okay you have any

debt uh I've got about

$25,000 worth of a mortgage and uh

20,000 order Lo okay good

okay all right

um why have you saved no

money uh I was I was married to a

spender and at the age of 50 um got

divorced and I walked away with zero

dollars that was eight years ago why

have you saved no money in the last eight years um well getting back on my feet I

ended up buying a house um that's where the mortgage comes

in I got $25,000 left on that so is that

where your extra money was going paying down that mortgage what did it start as

paying down yeah paying down the mortgage and it was a bank owned property um I got it for a song in a

great neighborhood um I put a fair

amount of money into it

um and that's where that's where most of my

money went so so the all right so and

you bought a

truck uh no I have it's it's my I have a

truck that's paid for oh what's the $20,000 vehicle uh I know you're into cars Dave

it's not a car um it's a motorcycle it's

a Harley-Davidson oh okay we gotta get

rid of that

I knew that was the first thing you were going to tell me to get rid of yeah it's gone if you want if you want to save

money I mean we have we can't keep doing what we've been doing okay you have a $20,000 you almost owe as much on your

motorcycle as you do on your house

that's weird yeah you know I mean really

so uh that you know you did so good on

the house and so poorly on the motorcycle so that was a weak moment I'm

sure it's a great bike I'm sure it's a great bike but uh but it's gone it's

gone somebody else's great bike now and

um cuz we need you to and then you know

what I would say is let's get on an every dollar budget and build an

emergency fund first of 3 to six months

of expenses and then pick up every extra

job you can get and let's pretend that

you saved $10,000 uh let's pretend you saved

$24,000 $22,000 a month 24,000 per year

for uh 10 years that'd be 240,000 plus

growth it'd be a half a million

dollar okay okay and you're you're 67

and you'd have a half million dollars in a paid for house okay I do have about

$23,000 in cash okay well then you got

your emergency fund in that that's great

I do have the emergency fund great um I

also I've got a a term life insurance

policy um that I'm it's $100 a month uh

for half million dollars should I keep that or is there a way to convert that to something else I doesn't convert it's

just like I have homeowners insurance and I don't have a home anymore do I

need it you know no you don't because

there's no one counting on you it sounds like for your income no okay and the house is the

house is worth more than you owe on it do you have children I've got three okay so if you

die they sell the house and pay the funeral right correct okay y let it

lapse yeah so you I I would close that out cuz you need that extra hundred bucks a month toward our $2,000 a month goal mhm so what I'm going to do is sit

down and do a budget and I'm going to come up with $2,000 a month I'm going to

sit down with a smart Vestor Pro and I'm

going to fill up Roth IRAs and simple

IAS and whatever else you can do as a self-employed person the great news is

as a trim Carpenter in high-end properties you are in great demand

you've always had more work than you

could take on right and so if you want to back it

up and make some extra money for a little while you can do that um I'm

always less tired when I don't feel like

a hamster in a wheel when I'm actually

getting

traction part part of part of what's

making you tired is you feel

stuck I don't know if I necessarily feel

stuck I know what stuck feels like because once I got out of my divorce

from and got rid of the spender and started actually saving or being able to

have money and and didn't have to live

paycheck to payche check and play the beat the Bank game um I sat down one day

I thought wow this feels really good yeah I'm tired of working is what you told me and so if if my work is going

toward a goal that I'm excited about I'm

not as tired that's all I'm

saying okay yeah well my goal is is to

to to get as much money save as much

money as I can for retirement and

retirement for me is probably working

three and four days a week instead of you know five six and 7 Days that's true

but there always comes a time where you won't be working anymore and so making

sure you get to the point that you're

okay when that phase of Life hits is also very important see if you had a half a million dollars in the bank at 67 or in a mutual fund at 67 in a paid for

house that 500,000 will throw you 50,000

a year right without

forever and so you you can travel you

could do whatever you want to do with 50,000 a year you work one day a week you can do whatever the what I do know

having grown up in the and been in the building business real estate business my whole life is trim Carpenters are artists they're the artist on the site

they're very precise very detailed he

makes Furniture you've got an artist's

eye and I need you to use your business

side the science not the art side of

this discussion that we're having okay you can't art your way out

of this one you got to science your way

out of this one and so it's it's a math

thing um and then you it will build you

a a situation where you have enough of a

nest egg that it cause you to have a good life that's what I'm wanting to move you towards so you got 10 years $2,000 a month and you can get

there it's very doable and you might

fool yourself you might get there sooner

uh because the more you pile it up the

faster the more you're willing to work all that kind of stuff so um you know you can back down it at

whatever point but uh I would sit down

with the smart Vester Pro go to ramseys

solutions.com pick somebody with a heart of a teacher and say this is my situation I've got to do this Dave told

me to get on an every dollar budget he told me to Jack my income up get rid of my motorcycle uh Jade told me get rid of

my motorcycle but Dave agreed

and I just slide that in there just

threw that un through the under you see the bus tracks I see the bus tracks

right across her yeah there we go and

yeah get you a game plan man and then

execute the game plan just like you were

uh doing a job on a house you lay out

the game plan you lay out what is needed you get the supplies on hand and you execute same thing here same exact deal

this is the Ramsey Show

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Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

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today's question comes from Patty in Illinois my husband and I purchased a

very modest home for his parents due to

the rising cost of rent in our area my

father-in-law is disabled my mother-in-law Works full-time at a very

modest job and they pay us a small

amount of rent each month it's been 5

years now and the home has required a lot of repairs such as water intrusion

of mold uh we've been able to cash flow

the problems but it has cost over 15,000

not to mention our sanity it has also

changed our relationship because they frequently contact us for issues or

requests in spite of many conversations

about what is quote nice to have versus

what is quote needed uh we're trying to

honor our word but it has been very taxing emotionally and financially we

are in baby step six and we need to plan for our own retirement I keep telling

myself to suck it up but we are losing

tons of money with no end in sight I've

listened to the show long enough to know we probably shouldn't have done this but at the time it felt like the right thing to do what would you do if you were in

our shoes well first off I wish I had

more information Dave I want to know how old these parents are I want to know I

want to know more I want to know the value of the house because I'm thinking if you bought a house in 2019 like the

value's probably gone up a good deal mhm

so so they're she they might not be

losing money in the way that she thinks now the actual idea of doing this I

think was a really bad idea um I think

there was just a lack of foresight here and I don't know what the promise was

did they say hey we're doing this house

you're going to live here you know until you die and we're covering it I don't

know what the promise was but I think

that they may have you know brought

promised more than what they could deliver on and I think that's probably what she's feeling some type of way about so she's got a lot of drama in her

words uh-huh she does and it's her

in-laws uh-huh I I the piece of

information I would like is I'd like to talk to her husband and see if he feels the same way uhhuh and if it was everybody's idea bothering him to the same degree or if this is in-law drama

that you are now molding or laying over

on this house yes

uh-huh I think it's a little bit of both

she does use the word we a lot which

makes me think that there is some Unity

no I think I don't think it was a hidden thing uh but I think he went into it and

went bought mom and dad a house and Dad's disabled mom got a you know not

not much of a job and they pay us what they can pay us and we fix the stuff that breaks and and she's going oh God

I'm dying yeah you know it's like um so

I don't I you know

$115,000 is not uh we are losing tons of

money over five years no it's nothing if

you own a house you're going to spend more more than $115,000 over 5 years on

a house M and they're getting some rent

which is good and it's going up in value

uhhuh going up in value mom and dad are going to pass someday and you're going to have a nice asset that's gone up in

value that you can sell and probably pay off your house and more if you haven't already so I I think I would first thing

I would want is get to the bottom and say what is where is all this resentment

really coming from um is it really coming from the

house I kind of don't think it is I

don't think so I now there is part of it

where they may have bitten off more than

they realized they were going to be chewing do you know what I'm saying like

in in theory it sounded good and then when you start walking it out you're like oh my goodness but to your point if

she's riding into to our show there's

something that they're not talking about yeah if your mother-in-law is calling you and asking you to fix something at a

house that you gave to her at a deal mhm

um and you already had you know

mother-in-law Ida

then that would just make it worse right

I mean that's it's like well you know

the difference in what is needed and what's nice to have yeah but you know

it's a modest home they're modest people she makes a modest income there wasn't anything in here lavish there's also

though Dave I didn't hear a Jacuzzi being installed I think to to to quote

myself I think there's also a vocab rehab that needs to happen amen because

here she's saying my husband and I purchased a very modest home for his

parents they don't own the home they're

renters you guys bought a house for yourself it's your asset it's your home

and I think if you start viewing it as an asset that we have it's going to

change your thought you I had a rental I have a rental house and it it a water

leak and I had to fix them all that's right as opposed to it's guess what I've had to do that a bunch of times right so

I had zero drama about it that's right

just fixed it it and it's going up in value tree fell on the back porch and

just fixed it it's just you know it's just you own a house and crap happens

right I mean it's like um it the other

question that I don't I'm with you I I don't think we have enough information because it's very interesting question it is and I'm imping a lot on you Patty

I apologize for that but um trying to

figure out what's really happening here and therefore to what to do with this

because also their age might play into it if she if if they're 87 suck it up if

they're 57 kick them

out you know sell it and give them the

money that it brings whatever it brings

give them the money for it um because

you didn't you didn't buy it for money you bought it to help them and you know if you want to give them the whatever proceeds are cuz you're going have made some money to your point from 2019 so uh

yeah that's that's that's part of it and

um yeah yeah and and I think then I

would want to just really ask I don't

know uh well walk that out what would

you so let's say let's say she's listening she goes yeah you know what they are in their 50s they need to get out of this house they've been paying us a small amount of rent what would you suggest in that situation to fairly I I

mean I don't care if you give them the money really I mean you sell the house

and whatever whatever I don't I don't know if there's a mortgage here or not but pay off all the expenses and then

whatever money you've made on the house

give it to them I don't care um oh I'll

tell you the other piece I don't know right here is I don't know Patty's income yeah that's right you know Patty makes $300,000 a year stop whining and

deal with it that's another good point if Patty makes $55,000 a year then you

were you did something you couldn't afford to do here that's true and that's

where some of this drama is coming from

is the pinch um because it's like oh it's we're

we're but we're uh it's been very taxing

emotionally and financially yeah okay I

don't understand it's um 15 grand is not

taxing emotion I mean it's not but so uh

that that's yeah it's a lot of details

maybe call in sometime Patty yeah yeah

we we do that so you can contact them

back off the email if you want to James we take the call cuz I I don't know what

to do but if yeah I think we could give a couple of scenarios if then okay kind

of flowchart it if they're super old and

you make a lot of money then this drama

is in your head calm down and suck it up

if they're super young and you don't make a lot of money maybe you need to move them out and sell the house I think

those are the two variables that that could be there I I don't hear a lot of

mother-in-law drama but I just think it's I it does it did it was curious to

me how much drama she had and I wondered if her husband would feel exactly the same way I bet he doesn't now if they're only

paying uh you know the mortgage is 2,000

and she said they're paying a small amount of rent so they're paying a th000

the proceeds I'd split okay I don't care um the thing is

I don't there you're not selling it

because you need money that's true she

did not bring that up she you're right she did not bring to get rid of an un

Anem and financially draining situation

to quote her that's true but she just

she did say we're in baby step six and need to plan for our own retirement so that made me think they might want some money it could be and it could just be

that the drama I'm tired of giving them

anything and I'd rather put it in my

account in Lost situations they get they

get salty really quick not going there

yeah not not going to do that you're right to that you started the whole thing right when you said you shouldn't have done it foresight you gotta you have to play these things out in your mind years and years to see where it will

land and all of the different variations

of the plan when you're trying to help your parents you're trying to help your grown kids you do not enter into a

process that does not bring them to

sustainability on their own and so you

get them up where they're standing on their own feet and you let them go so whatever you're doing create a situation

that gets them up on their own feet instead of a continuous drain and so that's so you people pay in

your 28- year- olds private schools for

their kids that's not sustainable we

shouldn't have entered into that this is

the ramsy

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Barbara is in Santa Barbara hi Barbara

how are you oh good thank you so much

for taking my call it's a pleasure to

talk to you both been listening to you for quite a

while I know how youd love a whole life

insurance policies but yeah my husband

took one out literally in college in the

60s because a friend of his you know got

their first job and sold everybody in

the fraternity house a whole life policy

so it is now

2024 we still have this policy but I've

never heard you address this issue if we

terminate this policy because I feel we

can self-insure at this point I have a

loan on this policy for

$63,000 and the agent is telling me if I

Surrender the policy that will be taxed

at my income or income level is that

true no no it's not true because I thought my

understanding was the way you talk about it when you borrow against the policy

you're actually borrowing your own money

and paying interest to borrow it exactly

and so your cash your cash value your

cash value amount is how much

$3,030 AB above the

63 yes okay so you get a check for three

grand okay okay and you'll have a net

income as a result of that of $66,000

which includes the loan okay um that

amount is compared to the total amount

you have paid into the policy since the

beginning which is way more than $63,000

okay your basis in a whole your basis in

a cash value policy for tax purposes is

the total of your premiums paid in right and your as long as your cash

value does not exceed that number you have zero taxes okay so I would think that since

it's been paid on since really the 70 or

60s 70s yeah what's how much have you

paid on it do you know no I have no idea

the de benefit's 24,000 but I mean if you add up you're

going to add up and see the total

premiums that you have put in is going

to be more than the cash value that you get out okay how am I going to find

where do you find that can they tell me that they can tell you that yeah the company can tell you that or you could just say you know how much is the

monthly or the annual amount and multiply it out since you got it oh okay

okay okay I got you so as long as and

and I would think that we've paid in enough over all these years that it's more than 63,000

exactly I mean it's been uh 60 was it

been 60 years 60 years oh my so if it's

$1,000 a year you only paid $1,000 a

year you're still okay yeah I wish I'd

found you a long time ago I would have

never bought this policy but I just never knew about this loan thing because I know you say surrender them if you can

self assure self-insure but I've never

heard you address if you have a loan on it because they keep telling me I'm paying income tax on it well that's what

they like to tell you because they scare you to keep the thing in but the problem is most of the people in the whole life business don't even know what they're doing I fig their level of expertise is

so low because 80% of them are gone in a

year people that sell whole life life

insurance 80% that start selling a whole

life life insurance are gone in a year

so the number of seasoned experienced

expert agents that have been doing it for 30 years it's close to

zero cuz they look up and realize how

bad they're ripping people off and they get out of the business the numbers on this are bananas she's been paying into

it since the 60s it only had

$63,000 of cash value and only a $24,000

death benefit yeah yep I'm shooketh yes

I mean what if there was 63,000 and she

hadn't borrowed on it I know and she

died or he died they'd lose it they get

24,000 the 63 be gone the way the only

way you ensure you get it is to keep a loan on it and so and then when you try

to get out of this complete screw job

they lie to you or they're ignorant one

of the two about how the tax calculation

actually works that is crazy yeah this

is how bad it it's a Payday lender of the middle class remember on sanfred and

sun when red fox I'm coming to join you

when you have that what was what was his wife's name Lily I yeah I think so I

can't remember I'm coming I'm coming oh gosh that makes

oh Lord

sheesh that's it that's how it works

Spencer is in Austin Texas hi Spencer

how are you Dave Jade thanks so much for taking

my call sure what's up uh yeah so um my

situation right now so I live in a house

that my parents own and um they want to

sell it to me and I want to buy it from

them and I have the cash to pay it off

good um but they want to yeah which I you definitely following your planing on that for sure paying off cash I don't like debt either um so but anyway I

guess the reason I'm calling though is because uh so they've owned this house for just under a decade and so you know

they bought it back in 2016 for uh just

under $100,000 and now as you know the

housing market is crazy so I think this house has wored somewhere between you

know 200 to 225 so you know they want to

sell it to we haven't negotiated a price

yet but they want to sell it to me you know somewhat close to what they paid for it so I guess my question is yeah I

know it's a good deal for sure um but I

guess my question is you know and I guess I'm calling on their behalf too because you know we're wondering about like are there going to be capital gains taxes how does it work with me buying it

at much less than what it's worth like how does all that kind of work and what's some ways around if there are any

don't like capital gains and things like that okay well capital gains taxes

calculated on the gain over basis now

let me kind of walk you through that that's a technical thing all right what

you pay for a house is your basis

okay so let's say they paid a 100 for it

and let's be simple for a second and say they sold it to you for 150 then they

would pay capital gains tax on the 50

gain see what I'm

saying yes okay and that's a

15% and so that would only be what uh uh

7500 bucks will be their taxes okay that's a

simplified look at the thing now we'll

add a couple of complications in there

if they have been renting the property

and have been filling out a tax return

on that and depreciating the property against their

taxes taking depreciation then they have an adjusted

basis so the 100,000 they paid for it

minus any depreciation that they have

taken becomes their basis so let's say

they had taken $20,000 worth of depreciation on their taxes over the

years then their basis is no longer 100

now it's 80 you following me yes sir

it's called an adjusted basis and then

your taxes are going to be on the difference between the 150 and the 80 so

they're going to pay taxes on 70 grand

in that case so that's how you calculate

it out if they sell it to

you uh weirdly below market like let's

say this thing's worth 300 and they sell it to you for 100 you probably ought to

get some tax advice as to whether or not

that's going to qualify as just a good deal or whether the IRS would look at

that as giving you a gift and try to tax

them on a gift tax I wouldn't want them to get hit with that so there's kind of

a gray area on the difference in a gift

and a good

deal okay and that was my my other

question too because I they're GNA sell it to me for less than what it's

currently valued at and so I guess they were kind of worried about that as well how far how absurd it you know if if they sell it to you for a dollar and it's worth a million then

they're going to get hit with a gift tax

okay because that's a gift that's not

just a good deal that's over the top okay it's going to be it's going to kind of shake everybody up that looks at it but if you sell you $300,000 house for2

200 that's probably just a good deal so

you need to talk to a Tax Advisor on that part of it to make sure that you're

not violating anything on gift tax what at what point does the IRS look at

something being a good deal or being a gift and then they also can help you

with calculation on the basis so good

deal and pay cash for it and it's a free

clear transaction sounds like a wonderful deal this is the ramsy show

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[Music]

Jade washaw Ramsey personality is my

co-host today thank you for joining us

America we're glad you're here Val is in

Minneapolis hey Val welcome to the Ramsey Show Oh family family I listened to you

years five years and I said it's time to

stop listening and start doing okay good

how can we help today all right now I've finally started

with the first and second steps but now

I'm at the point where I have three kids

that I no I shouldn't have and I did it

years I coign for a car because you know

if you want you do one you got to do the other one so I'm stuck with these three

car loans one of them is about to be

paid off in two months the other one uh

she paying half on it because she said

she going to have all of it to pay the

whole card not I'm paying the other one

and the third one is just saying they don't have the money right now so my

question was I was thinking about just

letting the other two cars just go cuz I

can't because I you know I can't afford to pay for for neither one of them and

so would it be a good idea if I just let

them refo it and just let it go on my

credit well you're going have reposession on your credit you

cosigned and then when they sell the car

and it doesn't bring what's owed they're going to come after you for the

difference I know that's why I hit him

at the point guys yeah you're you're going to get sued and you're going to have your credit screwed up so um let's talk about

the the one car is almost paid off so

it's not a problem right right okay so

the other the second car they're W you to pay part of the payment what is owed on that second

car one car is oh one is 16,000 on one

and the other one is 14,000 okay and what are they

worth the one for 16,000 is only worth

8,000 I was shocked and the one that's

worth the one that's worth 14 or the one

you 14 what's it worth 14,000 is about

um I think they said I almost sold that

one for 10,000 so I'm thinking this guy

was going to buy it for 10,000 but he never did come to so I guess it's only worth like 9,000 or something well just

because one guy didn't buy it that doesn't establish value but um yeah so

um if you can sell the 10 thou the the

$10,000 car for 10,000 and get the loan

you have to get a loan somewhere for 4,000 to cover the difference who are these loans with they with the uh my credit G good

go down to your credit union tell them you want to sign a note for the difference before these cars get repoed

and you're going to have $122,000 in debt you sell an $8,000 car that you owe

16 on you sell a $110,000 car that you

owe 14 on you're going to have a debt

with that credit union because otherwise they take these cars and they're not going to sell them for 10 and for eight

they're going to sell them for five and for four at the repo lot sell this car back

to the bank no Oh I thought you said I

can sell it back to the bank no I said you go down to the bank and tell them you want to sign a note for the

difference of what the car won't bring

they have a $116,000 loan on a car

that's worth eight you're going to end

up with an $8,000 loan at the credit

union instead of a $166,000 loan and you

sell a car that's worth 10 that you owe

14 on you're going to end up with a $4,000 loan instead of a

$114,000 loan and your kids are going to

get about the business of getting their own cars right but you get to pay the eight

and the four difference which is going to be 12 cuz they're not going to come through on that you and I know that

yeah this is what you this is what you

pay this is called a it's called a co-signing

fee is that what you're calling

it I thought there was an

actual no it's it's a stupid tax is what

it is when when I do something stupid and it cost me money I call it stupid

tax and you're the co-signing is

stupid yeah I learned that you learned

it you learned it three times

over you thought you were doing

something nice and you did the right thing the wrong way mhm you were being

kind and sweet and unwise and you knew

you were unwise when you were doing it but you were too kind and sweet to stop doing it so next time be more wise and

less sweet I know that's

right wow well the truth is she didn't

do the kids any favors either because they've been strapped to this that's right that's right you think you're doing somebody a favor and you strap them to something they can't afford and that's why the bank wouldn't loan them the money in the first place and everybody feels The Strain yeah

Thanksgiving dinner tastes different so

I co-signing is so universally stupid

the banks are the most aggressive

lenders on the planet they love to loan

money and if they won't loan somebody

money it really means it really means

something that they can't that they can't pay it and instead we step in and

we go oh it's l Junior we'll help Junior

and you know we step up and we coign and prob 1718 says one lacking in sense

co-signs for another wow the

Contemporary English version the cev of

the Bible in 1718 Proverbs says if you

cosign for someone else it's stupid

that's what that version of the Bible says the Bible called it stupid so I

didn't get mad at God but yeah and I

co-signed for a guy one time and I ended up having to pay it and a guy co-signed for me one time and he ended up having

to pay it cuz I went bankrupt that time

and I had to go back and pay him back it's an awful awful mess don't get into

those things it's a horrible horrible situation so poor Val I feel so sorry

for it's awful hey guys uh things are

changing around the ramsy show here this

week back on Monday uh we made a move we

have a network app called the Ramsey Network app that you can download for free you can listen to the whole show on

the Ramsey Network app or watch the

whole show on the ram Network app

whichever you prefer to do the last 40

minutes coming up is only on the Ramsey

Network app or on talk radio as of this

week and so if you're used to getting

the entire show on podcast you can still

get the entire show it's still completely free but you can only get the

last 40 minutes on the network app you

can watch the whole thing but you can get the last 40 minutes only on the network app so you YouTube folks podcast

folks out there you're expecting another another 40 minutes it's there but it's

only over on the Ramsey Network app you

can get it for free we're not charging

for this it's it's all free and it's

searchable you can search it by subject

and uh you can even send in an email ask questions we might answer some Ramsey

app questions at some point so the

Ramsey Network app in the app store or

Google Play completely free not going to

cost you a thing and uh Jade this is

exciting this the things that we're putting in this app to help you guys and

help you access the information that you're listening for um you could listen

for 3 days and not get the answer to your question yeah but if you want to know about car repossessions you can

just Google it in and you'll hear Val's call yeah exactly that's what's going to

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so uh the last 40 minutes of the

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it comes out as over three hours that's

what we do we do a three-hour talk radio

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look like something different so that's the thing so you can get all all you get the full episodes to the Ramsey show

only the Ramsey Network app it's very

convenient very easy and very free don't

miss it and uh again Jade the the

features we're putting in this thing we're excited about I'm really excited I

heard a little birdie talking about a

show that one of us is doing that might land in there so that's really cool oh

okay that's all I'm going to say I'm just going to oh I don't know which little birdie this was so I have to find out about this birdie okay cool that but

that might be fun we could we could do just a a show just on that yeah like a

specialty show yeah that you can only watch on the network on a certain

subject or something that would be neat be special ah okay exclusive if you will

yeah and completely free you can't argue

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ramsy show

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramy Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching you

can download it for free just go to your app store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over for you so jump

onto the app and let the fun continue

all right go on now don't make it

weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do e

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## 230. The Ramsey Show | Replay for November 29, 2024


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| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:17:53 |

---

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[Music]

today welcome to the Ramsey show where

we help you win in your life we're going

to specifically help you win with your money win in your professional journey

and win with your relationships phone

number for you to jump in so we can coach you up Isle 8825 5225 that's 88 25 5225 I'm Ken

Coleman joined uh by the incomparable

George camel he's layered up he's got

his his uh shacket unbuttoned so he's a

little looser today and so that tells me

you're ready to go I really thought you were going to say the incompetent George

camel now why would I do that you are very competent it's what Ken wanted to

say in his head but he said the kind thing instead that's not true everybody knows how much we love each other we enjoy being on the air together have

good uh we were just having a fun conversation uh before the show today which uh you

know we can't share that's true that was a very fun conversation you won't be privy to that you will not be privy to that let's go to Richie who starts us off this hour Richie's in Raleigh North

Carolina Richie how can we

help hey hi U pleased to talk to you

guys um I have over half a million

dollars uh debt um most of it I would

say 90% of it is actually my home um I I

was in a very lucrative job for almost

uh 7 to 8 years but after uh listening

to your podcast I um I came to a

conclusion that I haven't saved enough but I saved enough to uh put a deposit

in a house um and I've been jobless for

about 8 months now and I've um basically

exhausted all of my savings in fact this

month I will be uh taking out the the

,000 that I had kept um for my emergency

fund um towards the mortgage apart from

that I have a car that um I have to pay

around 500 more than $500 every month um

and um and I'm at a point where I've already started borrowing money from my friends and relatives and so I've kind

of um I'm in a um you know um big deep

trouble and I don't know if I should sell my house which I know in a few

years from now will um give me a lot of

equity because this is a growing area it's in the suburbs of Raleigh

let me jump in Richie let me jump in for just a second and George will walk you through uh the debt

situation what was the income and what

were you doing before you lost the

job so I am uh on the business side of

software engineering um I am a product

manager and my um salary fluctuated

between $110,000 to $130,000 a year okay

so uh product manager and um in on the

technology side of things

and you've been without work for eight months what's happening there because I

I I think you've got an income issue is the primary issue so I'm just want to dig here what what in your mind is the

reason why you've been jobless for eight

months um I believe it's the job market

right now um I know a lot of organizations are um um you know laying

off people black and blue um I know many

people who uh have graduated and still

haven't been able to secure a job and been jobless for more than a year now

okay and um so have you had opportunities have you had any interviews that's what I'm looking for what what what's your activity level I have been applying to at least

50 companies a day on an average for the

how are you going about that um basically in our uh job scenario

we basically T people on LinkedIn yeah

and um other job sites Richie I don't

want to I don't want to I do not want to

beat up on you when you're down because this is this is uh we know from

psychology that when you lose a job it

has the same emotional impact as losing a loved one so I want to be sensitive to

this but I can tell you I've coached so

many people who say they apply for

things 50 a day and when I find out it's

LinkedIn you are essentially playing the

lottery right

now that is not going to work and you

can tell it hasn't worked I will tell

you that you are going to and let me let

me just also say this the job market is

very tight in what we call White Collar

jobs and you're in a white collar job

and the market is tightening there's no question about that U but you have got

to go about it a very different way and and I want to give you to George here

but at the same time if we don't have any income coming in you're not going to

be able to do what George teaches you so

you've got to do two things and I'm going to give you at the end of this call uh I'm going to give you uh my book

The Proximity principle and it's an easy

read and I really think you've got to

change up your strategies because you have got to be connecting relationship

to relationship to relationship just to

get an interview then you've got to

perform well I think you understand that

I think you also have to open up the rest of the country are you open to moving or do you feel like you got to

stay in the Raleigh area no I'm open to

moving for sure yeah I mean we're in a desperate situation right now and to

that end I want to get super tactical here you need to be working at a Walmart

stocking shelves you need to be uh

driving you need to be doing whatever it

takes and I'm I'm going to pass it off to George with that as the segue just to

cover the basics right now so you got uh

you've got to change your strategy and

get really intense about finding a gig

but in the meantime you're working every job you can get George I hand it to you here to walk through his numbers so Richie you're you're telling me you don't you don't have any income coming in you've been draining the emergency fund to live correct yes he will for the

first time what is your monthly expenses when you look at your four walls food utility shelter Transportation what does that add up to um it's uh over $5,000 because of

around I have my mortgage itself a fixed

mortgage is 3600 and it's just you are

you single yes I'm single okay here's the

deal it might be where you need to move

you need to rent for a while one of the

reasons is this income situation the

other is you may not need a huge house right now in Raleigh mhm and so it's going to free you up with more options as you move into this next career phase the other is

you might need to sell this car how much is the car worth and what do you owe on

it um so the car I got a pre-owned car

for around $50,000 um I paid an upfront

$20,000 there so my current monthly

payment what's what's left on the loan

uh it's about 19,000 and what do you think it's worth if you looked up the Kelly Blue Book private sale

value um it could go for 19 or 20 not

more than that okay if I'm in your shoes

I'm getting rid of this car tomorrow I'm going to borrow a car for a little bit save up another thousand or two and just

get you a used beater car to get you around for now cuz that car is about to get repoed

you can't make the payment on it right

you're going to be paying that payment with your more debt to cover it yeah so

I think this house does need to go on the market for other reasons I think the car needs to go today and that will at

least give you a little bit of breathing room but like Ken said you need to go get three or four jobs just to cover the bills to cover those three four five

grand until you can get that career

that's right right and you you got to stop this

LinkedIn and I love LinkedIn I'm very

active on LinkedIn but LinkedIn is great

for information uh you've got to make some

real human to human connections right

now your your resume is is you are

spitting in the wind every day right now

that is that is how effective that is

and and you've got to get really intentional Richie listen you have too

much skill and too much

experience to stay unemployed eight

months I mean a product manager that is a very impressive set of

skills and also experiences that are

very transferable to a lot of Industries

but nobody knows you're out there man

folks I'm going to say this if I if I've said it once I've said it a thousand times submitting resumés online you are

just nameless faceless you're not making

any progress at all at all you got to

get back out and meet people say will

you connect me will you take my resume into the hu manager this is all about people the opportunity follows the

connections to people this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the ramsy show where we help you win in your life I'm Ken

Coleman George Campbell is with me today

it's the firm of Coleman camel and camel

the don't hire those people if that was a law firm I'd say run yeah yeah do your

research on that you see us on a park bench you know with our faces plastered on there that'd be kind of funny been an injury call Coleman and you know what we would use that photo that has yet to say we got to share that photo today do we have the uh the Step Brothers photo that

we can share on YouTube well look that's

a tease that's a tease we recently got together all the the Ramsay personalities and we did new shoot a new photo shoot and it turns out that George

and I individual photos were backtack

schedule wise and we had a we had a little fun with that we reshot the cover

to the movie UHS Step Brothers and it's

uh that could see that on the Park Bench but I tell you where you could see us together outside of the show you know where we can see us Ramsey Cru on the

Ramsey Cruise it's called the live like no one else Cru and it it is coming George it is going to be here before you know it and uh I'm I'm told here on my

production notes that uh we've had more

than 85% of the cabins booked so people

are starting to to to lock in and we're

going to be going to Turks and C St Thomas Puerto Rico and the Bahamas uh

George will have an entire vat of of

sunscreen he is uh I'm a 50 SPF guy yeah

he is he is are you really yeah you

might as well just wear a head to toe sweatsuit well here's the deal I'm thinking I'll be pale for the rest of my life but my face will look exactly like it did 50 years ago okay that's my

strategy whatever you tell yourself I don't want to look like a baseball glove that got left out in the sun yeah it's not my strategy so uh while you're over

here working on your third base tan

listen it's just called being outside

I'm not you know I can't risk it okay

well you know we're going to be all over the place with uh the catamaran selling

jet skiing horseback riding I want to see you horseback riding on the beach

that feels right personal brand I think

horses want to stay far away from this guy folks I listen I'm trying to have

fun with this and you can see that he's a scared man you're bringing up trauma I

told that girl to sell the horse terrified little fellow is is what you

are you're scared I'm going to make you

get outside your comfort zone on the cruise uh by the way I'm told there's pickle ball courts on the ship for real

yes by the way I have people have been reaching out to me on Instagram saying

hey I would like to uh to set up a

pickle ball match with my husband and you and all this kind of things yeah I'll do that for charity it's the only way you're getting I'll be holding Court literally there uh all the food is

included even room service you can Lounge by any of the pools hottubs see

me and others other uh enthusiasts at

the pickle ball court um and

state-of-the-art fitness center and you

can hang out with all of us Ramsey personalities and also our exciting

celebrity guest Trey Kennedy Steven Curtis Chapman man Shan Deana Carter and

more uh this is 7-Day Cruise March 22

through 29 2025 you do not want to miss

this Unforgettable vacation uh you can

book your cabin right now by going to ramsy solutions.com Cru or click the link in the description

if you're listening on YouTube podcast I

also have mad respect for anyone using a fitness center on a cruise I'll be there

you and delone will be in there lifting powerlifting some would call it um all

four days out of the seven days I will be in the gym Jade and I will got to hit the weights man I think Jade and I should lead Zumba classes F Center great

that'd be fantastic there we go yeah all

right very that's more my speed all right very nice all right let's get to the phones 88255

225 Sally is joining us now in New

Orleans Louisiana Sally how can we help

hi guys I am in the middle of a lawsuit

I joined national debt relief and a year

later I'm being sued by one of the credit card companies that put into the program and I've listened to what Dave

has said about offering a 50% cash um

direct offer to the companies but at

this point with us in legal um legal

situations my question is should I

circumnavigate and go around my legal

representation through national debt

relief to make a direct offer myself to

those companies and try to get us out of

this mess without too much of a of a

bleed on the back end for me o well let

me recap for those that are confused about what's going on here with this national debt relief I I think this is

how they approach it they go hey let us

handle it you don't make any more payments you make those payments to us

and let your credit card debt go into default the collectors will come after you your credit Will implode and then we'll settle on the back end is that how

it goes they've taken care of three of my

four beautifully but number four they've

dropped the ball on and now you're getting sued how far are you into the

lawsuit a week okay have you talked to your your

legal representation about trying to just settle this outside of court I I

have talked to him before um he was the

one that brought brought to my attention the reason why they haven't made um a

successful settlement already and it was

because I didn't have enough money in this the savings account with national debt relief and the comment that I keep

being given is don't worry we're taking care of this for you you might have to put more money in but we're taking care of this for you St giving these people a dime I don't like these companies I

think they're scummy and you can do the same thing on your own you don't need

these companies to do this for you my

fear is they do bring certain skills to

the table that I don't necessarily have such as the negotiation skills and specifically because we are in legal

lawsuit at this point if I drop if I

pull discover from their program I lose

my representation because they're the ones representing you have you talked have

you talked to your represent

he hasn't really been able to give me too much additional information than what they have he's kind of a I would

just go call the company they're not

doing you any favors here no more money

they want you they want to keep stringing you along because that means more money in their pockets yeah so I'm

going to jump in really quick here S I

would be on the phone with them saying I want to talk to you I want a phone call

with whoever your person is there uh

your customer service rep and whoever this represent a is I want a call I've

already paid you x amount of dollars and

I'm in this mess cuz you all dropped the ball if I heard you correctly is that right yes so at this point I've already

tried calling national debt release several times I have not been able to get a supervisor they tell me they'll call me back you don't I have talked to the lawyer my lawyer has been in communication with me as well as his paralal but at this point I took the

last 5 days to devise my own plan to

come up with the the 50% and according

to a lawyer we have 30 um 3 months

before judge makes final final rendering

final judgment what I want to do is I

want to approach that credit card company and be like look in the 90 days

in the three months I will give you 50%

right here right now in cash what do you

owe in total 18 18,000 what was all this

debt for to begin with I jumped into on my running my

business before I got laid off of Co and

I had eared already had a part-time company I was running and I ran that full-time so it was good decision or good intentions bad

decisions I just feel like we're not changing any habits here we went into this debt knowing we couldn't pay it back and then we use this company to get a deal on the debt and I just want I want you to take some ownership and go

you're unemployed I have no no I I'm I

have taken ownership I actually fulltime

fully employed as of November I've gotten about 80% of all of my my debts

worked out and straightened out this is a Las thing hang out it sounds like you've got 9,000 cash in hand is that

that's what you're going to make the settlement offer on correct correct well

I like that George she's taking some responsibility I would just go around them then and say I've got nine grand can we settle this can we drop the lawsuit and be done with this it's the last debt and they'll take I do this before do I do this before I drop

national debt relief or do I keep them in my back pocket well if the debts if the debts not if it's noted as paid in full there's no reason to use them anymore okay don't tell them anything but to

your question the first action is you go

directly to the credit card and get it settled okay and here's the thing I

don't know the fine print of these contracts that you sign so I would read the fine print you might need to get outside representation a lawyer that

doesn't work for that company to look this over so we are not lawyers yeah but

we can't give you the advice on that there mayck growing up that's as close

as Ken got which is pretty good actually I mean Andy Griffith's fantastic Sally I

hope you can clear this up I hope the nine grand does it and and I hope you never use these companies again and I hope you've cut up the cards but man

that would stress me out so that's how these companies work and they say hey don't make the payments anymore Let it go into default let them sue you then

we'll Settle yeah I don't like any of

this you can pay off the debt yourself you can settle yourself you don't need to pay these scummy companies by the way that was a commercial for George that

phone call to never take those Services here's why she's called the she can't get a supervisor on the phone oh they'll call you back let me tell you something the supervisor doesn't exist there's a

guy going hold on one second and he's like doing his fantasy football team for

five minutes to make you think that he's trying to get a hold of super the office I'm you know what he's not going to be able to get with you ever oh it's a he

doesn't exist he doesn't exist all right

I tell you who exists we do we'll be

right back this is the Ramsey

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George camel is alongside the phone number is 8825 5225 Allison is up

in Philadelphia Pennsylvania Allison how

can we help hi good afternoon guys thanks for

taking my my call um I just want to give

a little background of what I'm asking about um I'm getting my boyfriend just

under two years and we have definitely

talked about the future together um you

know and the next step would be living

together uh we feel rent is just a waste

of money we like to buy a house um neither of us are in the financial state to buy a house um his parents have

graciously offered to basically have us

buy their house from them um for 350,000

which is you know pennies in this market

uh with the agreement of if we were to ever sell that we would have to split

the difference with them whose

parents my boyfriend's parents this is

an awful

idea that's why I'm calling um did you

feel like it was an awful idea when you called or did you think it was a great idea and you're just being nice to my really D

response um I was kind of 5050 um you

know I came from a divorce house and my

parents argued about money every single

day uh my boyfriend's parents are still

together they lived middle class so did we um I also have like student debt my

boyfriend doesn't have any so I'm just trying to I guess think of the future um I'm

also thinking am I going to sign off on

a mortgage without an engagement so I know that's playing into it um yeah

those are all legit questions it's I

mean George can go telling you red flag

red flag red flag don't do this it's not the opportunity you think it is and also

you splitting the difference with them what happens if you stay in this for 10 or 20 years and this house becomes worth a million bucks and you just gave away

300 Grand right you see how convoluted it is

can I give you an alternate Vision can I

do that Alison yeah I'm I'm all ears I'm

willing yeah here's the alternate

Vision you and your boyfriend uh don't

live together until you get married and

when you get married you join

finances and maybe you attack a lot of

that debt before you ever put a ring on

it and you get debt free and you guys

rent for two years or whatever it's

going to take three years to get a good down payment George will walk you through that formula of what we recommend but we just take our time and

we're not thinking things like oh what a waste of time us actually being married

and not owning a home and and just have

this alternate vision for hey we can

take our time and and move into this and

not be saddled with you know a really

weird uh clunky Arrangement and George

explain uh our formula on all this well

what you're looking for is 25% of your

take home pay going toward the mortgage and that's with two married people and

there's a lot of issues with uh doing

this before your married there's a lot of issues doing this with his parents involved and them having a financial gain in this it just gets real messy

what happens when you got or if you guys

break up and now not only are you hey

I'm on the mortgage he stopped paying but now the parents are involved with the sale of the house and they don't like me because I don't their boy it's

just a mess and I hope that doesn't

happen I hope you guys stay together forever but the next logical step is not

let's live together and buy a house even though we're broke the next logical step is how do we get out of debt how can we

take steps toward marriage and then once we're in a good financial position we buy a house but right now what's clouding your judgment is this quote deal that you're getting on this

house um it's not that I mean I'm going

to be 32 soon and he's going to be 36 in

a month so we're kind of thinking you know we want to get married you want to start a family start a life together um

the market right now is just but you

don't have to buy this house this has nothing to do with the market what let me tell you what happens because I know these stories you guys move in together to this new house and for four more

years you talk about getting married

because guess what now you've kind of already played house what's the point of getting married why the rush and we're

broke so we can't pay for a wedding and

therefore you're going to build up resentment and that's going to not end well for this relationship and so we're

just showing you what happens on the other side we're not trying to be naysayers we just get too many calls

when people hoped it would work out a certain way and then life

happened right I I get it and I you know

like I said you know I I came from divorced parents I'm personally in debt

um I'm working extremely hard to tackle

and just get rid of it so him and I

don't have to worry about about it um and he is a complete opposite doesn't have any debt didn't have to worry about

um parents Financial struggle so you

know we're coming from two totally

different point of views and when I bring up to him um you know I don't want

to find a mortgage away if I'm not engaged like I need at least a commitment what does he say to that

um he he kind of I don't want to say he

danced around the idea but he like he

goes well we're going to do it eventually like we're going to be together like you know but I really want

to live together before we do I'm like yeah me too but if I'm going to sign a mortgage without a ring like I don't see

how that's fair to me yeah you're right

don't I'm not going to get into my traditional views of all this but you

certainly should not sign a mortgage

when you were not legally married to him

that's to yeah yeah I mean at first I

was like I don't want to buy a house unless we're married and then I compromise with I need at least an engagement so I know it's coming no don't compromise and don't compromise

make him listen you got the leverage

sister he needs to step up right need to

step his game up is he gonna is he gonna pop the question or not you should play

this back for him on YouTube I'll tell him I'm the bad guy today I don't care

man up bro put a ring on it don't put

pressure on her to get into a ill-advised deal what's wrong with you and to use

this as leverage to hang over your head is just strange and manipulative it's weak say well once we move in then I'll

propose I want to try it out I want to I

want to live with you for a while before I decide to commit to you this is what's wrong with men in America today we got all these freaking women walking around that have got a lot to offer and they're

in their 30s and they can't get married because you got a bunch of freaking

children posing as

men we got a man problem in the United

States and and women you know what you

ought to do just tell these guys go

pound sand I'm not going to live with

you I'm not even gonna date you for a long time if you don't show some daggum

commitment uh I I just got to tell you

George I I get a little irritated with

it and this is a problem and he's in his

30s Alison right you he's 36 he's a

Manchild why doesn't he just buy the

house on his own he's so financially

well off there's a

notion right he doesn't have the money

right I think I shocked

Allison yeah um I I do know I I want

need to say like he has been the I know

this has probably sound contradictory but um he has been like the most amazing

partner I could have ever asked for and

like we don't have any issues um but you

know when it comes to like this is where

but when it comes to this like we obviously have two um standpoints he's

he's seeing it as let's get the you know

the living situation on the road and we can finally move forward and be together

and first like renting renting is one

thing but like a a mortgage I don't know

I it doesn't fit right with me I thought we told you that Allison don't keep waffling on this and listen he may be a

great boyfriend but he's a boy and until

he starts acting like a man I'm GNA tell you something I wouldn't do any of this with him I wouldn't do I wouldn't do any

I wouldn't move in with him either and

if that means you're renting don't look at that as throwing away money on rent you're buying patience if you have to get two or three roommates until this is all figured out and you guys are married I'm okay with that that's how I I did it

before I was married and it worked out

great and it really helps you avoid so

many issues that can come up when you

jump into this next step which is the biggest Financial move you will ever make in your life is buying this house and doing it with someone you're not married to is a recipe for disaster all right I'm GNA I got to ask you what's

this If This Were a dating show okay

what's your statute of limitations if I

if I can borrow a phrase on how long a

guy should be in a serious relationship

like this before we start to say hey

dude you have commitment issues here's what I'll say what's the length of time if it's High School sweethearts I think you can get more time if you're in your 30s I give it two to three years Max oh

that's way Eng long two to three years

Max I think a year I think 12 months if

you're in your 30s and you've been seriously dating someone for a year if

you can't decide by that point whether or not they're a life partner I like getting past the first year that's when you finally have your first fight the first year all gumdrops and rainbows no

I think that's about a 3mon period you got to know how they fight conflict is everything you got to know how they fight before you say yes yeah all right

Ken's an old man but I think we're on the same page I believe in commitment

been married 26 years I Believe in a Thing Called Love Stuff it this is the

Ramsey Show

[Music]

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George Campell is with me and we

are here for you 8825 5225 is the phone

number 8825 5225 Portland Main is where John is

waiting John how can we help

today yes hi how are you thanks for

taking my call you bet what's up so I'm

looking to make the right decision here

I've made a lot of right decisions and a lot of wrong decisions over the years but uh we've been you know paying a lot

of stuff off we at the end of baby step

two I have a side hustle and a full-time

uh Municipal job and the side hustle is

growing and growing fast we've we've

gone from two cars down to one as we've

paid off a lot of stuff nice but I'm at the point where I kind of need a second vehicle to get to some of these side hustle jobs and the opportunity to make

a lot more money almost double through

the side hustle what's the side hustle do you mind we ask so I install

emergency vehicle equipment emergency

lights Sirens police cars fire Vehicles

no kidding so a lot of your customers I guess are municipalities and counties oh

yeah a lot of them correct very cool and

so if I understand you correctly you

need a you you paid off car you sold a

car but you're down to one vehicle and

you need a another vehicle just to allow

you to get to the work and that will allow you to double your income yeah so I've recently changed the

business model a little bit instead of building full police cars for municipalities I've turned and I've

found it more profitable to do what I would call service work say a department

needs 10 new computers installed and

already built it's kind of like doing brakes and struts instead of engines if

if you want to think of it that way it's just simpler and you can knock more out nice correct yeah so the money has been

great over the last you know few months

um in going forward looks great but it

takes me a little bit further away from the house though sharing a vehicle with

my wife and four kids um go ahead and

ask a question oh what's left on the debt one vehicle right now the a Ford Expedition for the family uh wife and

poor kids she stays home in homeschools

they do co-ops during the day while I'm at work so they do use the vehicle to go

to different different and it's worth

about 35 and we owe about 27 and we've

paid off a lot of credit card debt a lot of other debt and that's all that's left

how much more money would you be making per month if you uh can add these new

clients probably

on the low side it 3 to 4,000 more a

month if I can get to like two of these

jobs a month that are a little bit further away what if you slowed down

your payoff of this car in order to use

that cash to buy a used car to get you from point A to point B so another to

put to give you the full picture another thing because I found the ramsy show about month and a half ago we were already doing a very very similar

process but I've been investing 8 to 10%

of my pay for since I've been with the city here for eight years so my other

question is should I pause that which

would add $450 a month onto our payoff

plan there's already $150,000 in a 457a

should I pause that for a year or so while I get these the rest of these paid off yes okay regardless of your situation we

tell folks to pause investing during baby step two because of the

accelerate yeah it definitely so there's

for to put it in perspective the I was looking at was about $122,000 for the

business I would buy it and write it off with my L Fe do you need a specific car

for this business no I need something

this I'm looking at an ecosport something very small good on gas me in a

tool bag me in a toolbox I don't want

anything I feel like you don't need to spend 12 Grand to get just a car from A

to B if it's not like a work truck so

are there are there things that are in the 5 to 6,000 range I'm going to try

the six to eight uh to get that a decent

little eco car I think you could do that

so yeah yeah no I I definitely hear what

you're saying especially with the automotive mind my the only other thing

I've thought about which is crazy to think about is that my oldest is 10 now

like buying this $122,000 vehicle there's a job coming up that I could take that's a week long that would I'd travel to in December for a week and

probably make 13 in that week to pay and

pay well here's the deal what does that have to do with the

10-year-old this could be his first car

if I buy something that's going to last five years oh I I get that I get that

this might be a six-month car and you might upgrade once you're out of debt upgrade to a little bit better and then upgrade to a little bit better and the chances are he's going to want a different car that's his that he gets to go shopping with you yeah we're trying to save you 6,000 now I'd rather save

you that kind of money now and then you know six years from now a whole different ball game yeah I understand that makes sense

to me yeah so John what I would do if I

was in your shoes is I would pause investing I'd slow down the steps in

order to save up real quick and get you a beater car to then increase yeah and

increase the speed of the baby steps

yeah are you did you say you're mechanical you like you can fix cars

yeah oh let me tell you even better I I

I can barely put gas in a car all right full admission I have no skill at all

but if I had your skill I'd absolutely

be looking at something you know really

really cheap because you can fix it up

and keep that thing moving you know

something with like major gas mileage

it's just you yeah you

know we also uh we bought our house back

in 2013 when the market was the opposite

of what it is now so we're in a really good position there as well great sounds

like you're doing great welcome welcome to the tribe uh you're doing great yeah

and uh car is just the last thing you know and I think later on this might

become your fulltime Gig if you want it to be could you do this full-time could

be oh I could um the stress of running

the own business and this is kind of a

good work life balance I didn't grow up with any structure nor did my wife so we're trying to give the city job gives that to the to the family and then the

side hustle has been great too what's your biggest stressor as a solar

preneur so doing the full police cars

they could take doing them on the side I could have a one vehicle apart for three to four weeks and it's like when my mind's on the project it's on I can't

get it off the project till it's done I

got that so shifting to this new type of

work where I go to the you know I go for a day or two or three and when I leave all the work's done and I don't think about it so I I have found ways to

to make that better but uh longterm I

call it the best of both worlds right now but you all right that could change in four or five years you might be able to find a guy who's also mechanically handy and you delegate it and you have a little team and who knows I like that

idea get know I tell you what if I'm him

again you look for some young dude coming out of high school that needs to

prove to his parents that that he could make good money as a mechanic and doesn't want to go to college i' I'd get that kid in there and doesn't want to work in the traditional mechanic role this sounds like a cool you know you get to be a part of a startup business make good money throw that thing wow side

thought but I like it riches and the niches Ken uh I like oh is it you're so

happy with yourself I wish if you

weren't watching on YouTube you should have seen how Smiley you were when you

said that did you like think about that

phrase today before say it first gonna

be honest you love a good rhyme I'm sick with Envy it's what is uh can we help

Renee real quick George all right let's try Renee is in Fresno Renee how can we

help hi there I was calling because I'm

currently in baby St number two but

we're actually probably going to have all of our uh be out of that step by

next year like mid next year and I was

calling because my husband retired from the Navy and we found out in his retirement that if our girls go to

college in California any UC or state

school their college is completely paid for amazing so yes so I'm still

wondering if I should be saving for

either a college fund or put a savings

account for each of them in a high yield savings account in case they either want to go out of state or maybe towards a

master's program I'm just kind of trying

to think down the road I would but I

would not until you're out of debt with an emergency fund and you're investing 15% for your own

retirement okay otherwise there might be

extra things living expenses books who

knows what they might need to cover I would work with them to create a plan to work and save along with Mom and Dad

working the money plan okay okay perfect I think that was out

everything that's incredible fantastic

thank you so much Renee for the call and

we also need the stipulation you are going to one of these instate schools that's completely paid for we don't get to choose but I really want to go to XYZ

private school across the country well

you better have the money to pay for that cuz Mom and Dad ain't paying yeah yeah especially in this situation absolutely they need to know the value of of what that education will do for them debt free and if they need that go

watch borrowed future on YouTube it's a

documentary we we created completely free to watch it will change the game with these conversations and Ken you do a great job in it laying out some facts

well you know we're we're in a world today where the the value of a degree is

increasingly fading with the American

people and we're starting to see that it's fading within the workplace with many many major organizations uh within

different Industries saying we don't require a college degree anymore so so the more you pay the more you go into debt for it the less RI yeah good stuff

all right great shacket today George it

matches your glasses that's always a pro

move thanks for hanging this hour this is the Ramsey Show

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[Applause] today this is the Ramsey show where we

help you win in your life we help you win with your money win in your professional journey and win in your relationships 88255 225 is

the phone number number 8825 5225 I'm

Ken Coleman George camel is with me it's

Coleman camel time and we are here for

you let's get to the phones Jeff is on

the line in Denver Colorado Jeff how can

we home how you guys doing good how are you

good um so I got a question for you guys

I started fixing flipping houses this

year as like a side hustle uh my second

house is about to hit the Market within

the next week um but my question is like I'm going to have about $160,000 in profit once this sells is my

estimated uh profit how do I Shield

myself from this massive tax bill that's

going to be coming my way how massive is

it have you actually done the math yeah

I'll be about 160,000 of profit that I

I'll need to pay taxes on no he's asking have you done the math on your taxes but

you know depending on your bracket what your marginal tax rate is versus effective tax rate are we talking you know 16% of that I don't know what the

taxes are in Colorado yeah I'll be about 20% of that

okay have you already figured in like

you have existing expenses just on the

actual renovation uh not yet okay well that's

first thing you I hope you got some accurate you you got some accurate records on all that you spent correct yep I got everything documented

of what do you think what do you think the ballpark is um

like the we put 160,000 into this last

property okay well you put 160 in and you got 160

out uh 160 is from both properties um

I'm I think I made I'll profit about

880,000 from that first property and about 80,000 from the second property well you said you put 160

in into the investment yeah to to flip

it this is bad math it's telling me that

you're not making money in this business so let's let's start over Jeff either I've confused you or you're not tracking with us okay okay so you you you got one

house that you're saying or is it two

houses that you're saying you've got the total profit of

160 two houses so I sold the house in

February this year and I'll profit

880,000 on that um I I profited 80,000

on that house and then this the second house is about to hit the market and I

should profit about 880,000 on that okay is

that after getting your money back from your initial investment correct okay all

right I got scared I was like oh no I did it wasn't making sense okay so the

bottom line is you need to get with a tax Pro George and I are not tax Pros

Ramsey solutions.com great place for you

to see uh a good list of tax pros and I

would contact they'll help you find every legal nook and cranny to go where

what can I you know write off as a deduction from this B is it through an LLC you're doing this correct yeah okay

but the reason we want you to go to a Ramsay preferred or you know the

approved tax Pro is because a lot of

accountants and tax people out there

will try to get you to spend money just

to lessen your tax bill and to me that's

about the most mind-numbingly stupid advice I've ever heard you know well go

buy this and bu bu G wagon for 130 Grand

just to save money on taxes no save the

money and pay Uncle Sam you know and

that's just how it is so with your regular expenses everything else that's

what you're looking for but don't get sucked into that idea just a warning

okay that's good because yeah I was people have told me go buy a new truck and I'm like I don't need a new truck

thank you never spend to save yeah spend

money to save money it makes no sense so

uh you're a good man appreciate the call and congrats on uh flipping the houses

there yeah and just set aside that money

and put it away in a high yield savings account and then be ready to pay that with your quarterly estimated payments don't wait you know a year year and a half to make these tax uh bills make

sure that you're paying that quarterly through the IRS website to avoid any uh

fees and penalties all right Sarah's up

next in Detroit Michigan Sarah how can we help hi thank you for taking my call I'm

a tad nervous so I apologize you're doing great I thanks I'm very nervous um

so I was wondering if it would be in my

best interest to take money out of my

brokerage accounts to pay off my Parent

PLUS Loan how much is in the brokerage

account uh the two brokerage accounts um

are about 90 uh let's see they're about

93,000 okay and how much left on The Parent Plus Loans well uh I'd say about 68,000 I

just started paying the share okay and

what were you saving up in this brokerage account for because this is non-retirement you're just investing on

the side yeah I just when I first got married 29

years ago I just opened up some IRAs and

this joint this brokerage account which I didn't realize what it was until just recently I just put that money away and

I never touched it good well the good

news is this is likely long-term capital gains and so won't be you know a crazy

tax bill but you will have to pay taxes on the growth of this money so I would

pull out that 68,000 be ready to pay the

taxes on that and be done with this debt

get it out of your life andan the interest tra on these payent Plus Loans is excruciating yeah it's like 7% and I

want to pay it because in the long run

for one I don't want to give the government any more than money than I have to amen and um that's going to like

double by the time I get them paying it off so that's why I you have the money I

would just go ahead and pay it and it's going to hurt a little bit because you've worked hard to invest and save this money but it's for a purpose and right now that purpose is to pay off debt and for the rest of your life it

will be to instead build wealth and

leave a legacy and so I'm sorry that you

gotta use it for something not fun but

that's that's kind of the price we paid when we signed up to pay Junior's

College I know I know so I was worried

because I don't know how to figure out the capital gains but um but um that's a

simple fix I'll try and do that on my own yeah it's a simple fix you can reach out to a Ramsey trusted taxpro at Ramsey

solutions.com they can help you figure

out what you're going to owe and help you figure out what you need to set aside in order to pay this tax bill but

it's not going to be anything life changing um it's not going to be a you

know 25 $30,000 bill so you don't have

to worry about that okay but you have

the money to

pay well I was thinking if I take out

the full 93 I'm going to save some back

to pay for the taxes sure you may not

need use the whole 93 if you don't need to use the whole 93 you don't need to pull it all out right now if you have

other goals I was going to pay off my credit card debt oh my goodness you bury the lead Sarah there's the story do you have any other debt you'd like to disclose

I have other debt but no one asked me that um yeah I mean I I you're the best

Sarah I listen to your program so I

know you should she she listens so she

knows what to reveal and what not to reveal she don't want our advice these

other things just that one I would pull

as much as you need to pay off all of your debt and pay any taxes

due yeah because I still have a bunch of

401s and stuff so retirement so s would

the 93 make you completely debt free

[Music] um it would it would probably pay off

everything but my cars and my mortgage

all right that's a start yeah how old

are you well I'm 58 I'm old what does where

does 6 where does 60-year-old Sarah want

to be does she want to be dee when did 58 become old I don't know Ken is I'm

married too so okay yeah I'd make a plan

with your spouse and go hey let's go into our 60s completely dead free let's

have let's have a retirement that we're proud of a legacy we're proud of and not having to scrape by so that's what I would be aiming for and liquidating this brokerage account is one step toward that we're proud of you yeah thanks for the call 58 is not old cuz that hurts

Ken's feelings well to be clear I just turned 50 all right so you know it's all

perspective halfway to 100 Ken just saying thank you George this is the

ramsy show

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welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George camel is alongside the

phone number for you to jump in is 88255

225 it's time for a question of the day

George and today's question of the day

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in all states today's question comes

from Colin in New Hampshire I recently

got my license to be an architect I'll

be having a conversation soon with my bosses about a new role and responsibilities which should include an increase in Pay I have no reason to

suspect that my employer would underpay me however I would like to go into that meeting with an idea of what a fair salary would be looking at the numbers online they range anywhere from 65 Which

is less than I make now all the way up to 100K I understand there are nuances

to salary such as years in the field or type of experience this makes it difficult to gauge quote unquote fair I

want to manage my expectations of what I should be making where can I find accurate salary data to know what fair

is yeah good question here from Colin

and and I would just focus on the fair

part of this uh the the the fair part is

is really the wrong thing to be focusing on you've got to set your range based on

what you're making now and so he's saying the low range is 65 so he's

already done his homework so wherever you got this information uh is the same

place that you're going to look at for what's right for me so you're just looking at comparative salary analysis for for people with experience and skill

set similar to yours and you're going to look at where you're at on the Range so he's already given us the homework so 65

on the lowend 100K on the front on the

on the high end and so where do you fit

in that range uh of salary and so if

you're in that range of 80 um then I

would ask for the full I would go to the full number maybe go a little higher because they can always come down so maybe if you felt like all right I I feel like accurately I could I could

command an $80,000 salary I'm going to

ask for 85 that that's what I would do so aim a

little bit higher a little higher give that company a little room to come back

with a counter yeah and uh you got to

know what your number is where you go I would not feel good I would feel resentful coming into the office every day now hopefully that again is based on

viable information which Colin has gone out and done the research and he said I

just got my license which tells me he

might be more entry level so I wouldn't expect the full 100K but I'd also want to know when I go in what does a growth plan look like to grow in this role what

is that ladder if I want to step in and

have more responsibility that would at least help me not flounder in the role

going well I should be making more well who said that's right that's exactly right so good question really good question uh to the phones we gole 88255

225 Rachel joins us uh she hails from

the Washington DC area Rachel how can we

help hi um I'm

um I'm in a pickle um and I um really

don't know what to do okay um so

I am um right now I'm actually currently

overseas and um in

asah and um because

um my husband I I guess I too believe

like the US the cost of living in the US is

outrageous um and so um we're overseas

just to kind of get the cost of living

down um we are currently living off of

like VA benefits veterans benefits right

now okay and um hband has a what how

much are your benefit pay

pays total four grand a month and that's

what you're living off of that's from your husband's service or your

service husband okay all right keep

going and then um

so that's why we're we're currently here

um however um I recently got a job

offer that pays a

sipen and room and board

um 18,000 site then um and then housing

and what about salary yeah

and yeah so it's it's 18 for the

Academic Year so nine months okay I'm I'm I'm confused Rachel

what is the job that you just got offered why you tell us where that is

it's it's a residential hall director at

a university and so you're only going to make an $188,000 that's what the stipend

is

yeah and then they provide housing and

meals and meals okay all right and so

what is the what is the Dilemma should you this is in the US I'm understanding

yes okay so what's the Dilemma

us where are you at where's your husband

at um working no no I'm sorry where is your

husband on this idea of you moving back to the states where are you at on on

moving back to the States it feels like you want to do this but I'm just getting

Clarity yes I I want to that's the thing

like I want to honor respect my husband

um I'm you know I'm

Christian

um however like we've done this before

and I developed a lot of anxiety

overseas being away from friends family

okay so Rachel let me let me jump in he wants to stay you want to go yeah thank you is that

right yeah does he know that it's

causing you all this anxiety I assume this relationship is not going great

overseas yeah ex yeah so if I'm him I

want a better marriage and therefore I'm gonna compromise and go okay let's go

back to the US and figure out how to afford to live there because living

overseas is not the solution to the cost

of living issue so how can we help you

the reason okay

there just a lot I know I know sweetheart we're we we have about three minutes and so we want to try to help

you how can we weigh in where would you like us to weigh in so my husband has a real estate

business um I use that kind of whitly

not really but kind of so last year he

made 100 Grand but he got the properties

in 2022 and then sold them in 2023 and

are the real estate is the business in the United States or overseas yes in the US and he's managing

all of this

overseas yes okay keep

going and um anyways um so but he he

hasn't made an income in a year now um

so if we I'm in the Dilemma of like do I

stay overseas to support him and his

business or do we move back to the

US I don't I don't understand how you

staying in Asia supports his business

when his business has not made money in

the last year it's in the United States

it's across the world Rachel I am so confused about all of the details around

this except for one thing I'm not confused about you guys have a massive

massive marriage issue and you got your

husband who wants to stay in the in the

in the state overseas and it stresses

you out and you've done this once before

so we got a track record you don't want to live overseas he wants to live overseas you're willing to go get an

$188,000 stip to be an RA just to escape

wherever you are this is not good we

have to get on the same page quickly

well the reason the reason why I wanted

to take the um the job at the university

is so that we could save the four grand

a month okay but would he move with you

would he move with you

yes so that's what you wanted our

opinion on is should you take an $18,000

stiping to get out of wherever you are

you guys were making 150 Grand between his business and the VA benefits so this

is not a cost of living issue you guys need to move back to the

US and both get normal jobs yeah that's

and stop finding weird shortcuts yeah

and like taking this well we can save

the 4,000 so he doesn't have to work I

it just the whole thing is so anti to

what we believe here yeah move back and

start working and get a marriage therapist

quickly this is the Ramsey

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[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show I'm Ken Coleman George camel is alongside the

phone number is 88255

225 we'd love to take your calls about

your money uh your professional Journey

your work so we can make more money and

your relationships 8825 5225 all right I

want you to think about something for me George you ready okay can you be imaginative there he's closed his eyes it's good I want you to look up a year from today and you finally accomplished

all the things that really matter to you how's it make you feel George amazing

accomplished I'm floating yeah absolutely does that involve going on vacation with me that would be a dream actually the colan's vacation well I

thought so uh achieving your goals George doesn't happen by chance you need to plan so that you stay focused motivated and organized every step of the way that's why we're excited about

the new 2025 ramsy gold planner it's

packed with monthly teaching from Rachel Cruz Jade warshaw and John deloney and

it's going to help you set goals uh with

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sells out so you want to get the best price go to ramsy solutions.com ramsy

solutions.com store all right Brian is

up in Boston Massachusetts Brian how can we help today yeah hi thank you so much for

taking my call so I did have a question

for you um I currently own two homes our

primary home that we live in we owe

about 223,000 uh left and we do have a rental

property uh that is paid for

unfortunately I took a line of credit I

uh accumulated about $125,000 in debt there and I have about

another $35,000 in credit card uh my question to

you is should I consider uh selling the

rental property uh to pay off my debt

and uh pay down uh what I primarily own

on my primary home or continue using

that as an investment um which is

bringing in monthly income every single month if it's bringing in monthly income you wouldn't be upside down going into debt every month so clearly it's not the investment

we wanted it to be what have you been spending this money

on uh the the line of credit was when we

moved into the home uh we didn't have uh

uh we didn't plan correctly should I say

we ended up spending more moving into a

much more aenial neighborhood um and we

did I think overspent to I would say so

I'd have a hard time blowing 120 Grand on a move in and what about the 35,000

in credit cards uh that part of that was a program

that I decided to take and uh the rest

has just uh at times I may need to use

the credit card to help of that's what I'm saying if this was

such an income blessing in your life you wouldn't have to turn to the credit card to spend and so that tells me we have some spending issues and habits here

that we need to fix and so I would

probably recommend selling this rental what can you get for it uh right now I could sell it for

about 375 after taxes and realtor fees

maybe get about 310 okay so let's say you took 310 and

you paid off the line of credit that's 125 you paid off the credit card that's 150 that leaves you with another 150 to

throw out your mortgage leaving you with about 75 left on the

mortgage correct and frees up those

payments right frees up the credit card payments you making frees up the line of credit payments what is your household

income without the rental I myself

without without the rental I make uh

depending how much overtime I work uh

anywhere between 150 to 250 a year and

my wife around 120 nice amazing so you

guys were making yeah 370 yeah and you couldn't cash flow any

of this yeah I think uh I uh we've always

been struggling ever since I was 12 I've

been working uh this is not a work issue you

got a spending issue if you're blowing through 370 and going into

debt that's the part we need to focus on

here and I think selling the rental is just one step and getting us a clean slate but as soon as that's done we need

to refocus our habits and go we work too

hard to be this broke would you

agree I would I would agree you guys

have been working your tails off I think that I partially these past uh several

years we've been able to uh putting away

for retirement I think I was just going about it the wrong way so we've saved up

about 750,000 wow but of course that's in

that's in retirement that's you know I can't touch that money yeah you so

you've been how much you've been putting away a month towards

retirement uh we the past I don't know

four or five years we've been putting away we've been maxing out okay well the

good news is your investing muscle is

strong you've got a great investing arm

but you're atrophied at your spending

muscles that's where all this is getting

burnt and so I do think you can keep

investing but I would definitely ratchet

it down to 15% once everything's sold

make sure you have an emergency fund get completely debt free outside of your mortgage that's left and then invest 15%

and let's start attacking this mortgage and be done with that probably within a year you could be done making 370 with

70 left would you agree we can knock out

the mortgage I I would I would I

definitely agree I guess my my concern

on selling the rental property is I

always viewed it as a safety net um um

not to get into pass but my father

always had a gambling problem and so I've always been afraid of of being

without you've been tearing holes in your safety net with this line of credit and so it's if you're telling me it's a safety net it's not

all right so I would find your own safety net that's an e Property not the

line of credit right I totally agree with you I'm just saying if you're

leveraged up to your eyeballs there's no safety in just owning that asset when

there's all this debt attached and the rental property is not spitting off enough profit what what are you making per month after all expenses on the rental property on the rental property um after

you pay your line of credit oh after I pray uh I was making

23 so here's the other dilemma I have

2350 is what I was making on it um of

course I then would have to pay the line of credit which is uh was around 12

or300 um so we're doing all this for

about 10 grand a

year uh yeah correct if I were to do

college students I can uh bring in about

uh 4500 a month no it's not the point is

it's we're trying to help you see it's not worth it this is a great opportunity for you to your overtime is much better

Roi than making the 10 grand managing a

property sell the house it's not it's not getting you the ROI that if you want

real estate down the line wait until your house is paid off and then save up cash with this amazing income and no debt payments and you will be buying up real estate in no time and the 100% cash

flow is going to help you buy the next one and the next one and yes it's a slower route but it doesn't lead us to where we are today making a crap ton of

money with not a lot to show for it

going into debt every single month so I

wish you the best changing your family tree Brian it sounds like you want to you don't want to live the same life that your parents lived you want to leave a different Legacy and that's going to take creating different habits so I'm going to send you a copy of my book Breaking Free from broke I hope it

convinces you that the debt system is not a path to wealth or peace and that

you can live outside of it so hang on the line Christian will pick up we'll send you a copy of that best of luck to you with the sale of this rental yeah and getting completely debt free and he can clean this up the shovel is amazing Ken making 370 households and he has he

has saved a a really nice Chunk in

retirement so it's not like he's you know unstable it's just a the system

he's been or lack of a system I guess I

would say is that he's employing is not as effective as it should be but he's

done a good job and to your point the money's there but I would get out of this thing now and I I talk about the flat tire analogy some people are really

good at saving and investing but they have spending habits and that's a leak in the boat we got to fix that's a flat

tire and so I like being well-rounded where we're giving we're saving we're

investing we're spending we can do all

of those things but it has to be well-rounded and the right ratios at the right time yeah because it does pay off

it really does it doesn't seem like you've got a great strategy until you wake up 20 years in and you realize

you're AE of everybody else and Ken you work out you understand you can't just do leg day you're going to look weird

that's absolutely you got to do some full body stuff can't Skip Leg Day either you know you can't have you seen these guys at the gym with a giant upper body and their legs look like noodles

yeah I'm right here you don't have to talk about me like that my noodle legs

my skinny jeans that's fantastic all

right George is gonna do some squats during the break and we'll be back before you know it this is the ramsy show [Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

welcome back to the Ramsey Show thrilled to have you with us I'm Ken Coleman uh

George Campell is with me Triple 8825

5225 um we got to mention this network

app really quick because this is so fun

kind of a new thing and I want to mention it on the front end very quickly

um as we will wrap up this hour of the

show uh people need to know that uh if

you're listening on radio we'll continue

uh but if you're on podcast or YouTube

this is it uh for what you're going to get today but you can get the rest of the calls and we got a great lineup here as I'm looking on the board some great calls coming up you can get it uh on the

Ramsay Network app you can get that in the app store Google Play I just want to mention that real quick as we head into this segment instead of mentioning it at the end uh run out of time that's right

lest we run out of time very good was

the last time you used well I love the word L it doesn't get used very often I

don't think many people your age even know what it is you bring out the best to me Ken thank you let's go to trayon

in Indianapolis who is joining us now

tradon how can we help hey thanks for

taking my call you bet uh here's uh

here's my question for you so I just

started my fourth year of college for my

degree in criminal justice but I

recently found out I'm going to have to

take at least an extra two years after

this one to finish my bachelor's degree

I just started a new job where I'm

making $100,000 a year right now

fulltime with the option to get upwards

of 150,000 so I guess my question is is it

worth it to continue with school to get my degree that I most likely won't use

or drop out and pursue my career well

the way you just positioned it no it's

not worth it to stay but let me backtrack a little bit why are you being told all of a sudden that you need two more years for a total of six years for

your criminal justice degree well uh during my sophomore year

I had uh I lost one of my good friends

of mine and it I didn't Focus that much

on school so that's Pro that's where I

got behind oh I see so you said you just

found out it wasn't like the school dropped this on you this is just you don't have as many credits as you need

yeah okay okay well what's the job

you're doing now where you're making 100 Grand with the potential to make1 15

uh I'm a pipe citter fantastic do you

like it I love it oh man that done give

me my gavel and my robe George uh the

jury has spoken I absolutely would drop out of college okay what's the other

alternative here you you're in school for three more years to get a criminal justice job that pays half of what you're making now yeah yeah yeah no what

sense does that make does that make any sense to you

tradon what was that does it make any

sense to you to stay in you called us

it's your call do you think it makes any

sense okay unless you said I hate this

pipe fitting job I really love criminal

justice I need to do this it doesn't

sound like that's the case did you kind of fall into well I guess I'll do criminal justice where did this come from uh I used to I I always wanted to

do it and then now more

recently with you know how cops are

looked at nowadays and everything like that I just don't and the pay cut and I

love what I'm doing right now I absolutely love it so it's just kind of hard I I I listen I I'm glad you called

and the reason I asked you what do you think is because at the end of the day

it's not about Georgia I's opinion on this and I think you were probably leaning that direction and and I'm going to tell you you have a path to not just

150,000 you have a path to being a

multi-millionaire because you you will

will eventually learn this trade to a point where you may end up owning your own business I'm assuming that's crossed

your mind yeah yeah now you're creating

jobs and and and so this is a no-brainer

and and I appreciate the call though because I think a lot of people think man I've been in it this long I don't want to be a College Dropout you're talking to a College Dropout I am a

College Dropout not a loser not a

grifter Drifter all the things right I

just knew that it was time to go work on

campaigns political campaigns and so I

didn't need to sit in an upper level government class when I had the opportunity to go being part of the fight and that was my path so you know

and then I ended up you know moving into

my early 30s into broadcasting which again didn't require a degree so it's

always is a degree required uh or is it

the best way so the only way or the best way and in this situation you've got really clear direction for your future

so I say drop out and don't let anybody talk you out of it okay do you got any student loan debt or any other debt uh I got maybe 15,000 okay you can

Crush that as you start working I would aggressively pay that off get an emergency fund you already got the job making 100K yeah okay man well now with your

focus fully on this job sky's the limit

knock out the debt get an emergency fund and start building some wealth my friend

yeah you know what uh he's not broke but I want to keep him from being broke so I

want to give him a copy of your book George I appreciate that to to avoid the

traps because you don't have to be broke

to get a lot out of your book and I want him to have a good path going forward as you start making money that's where the traps show up you start to inflate your lifestyle and this book's going to help you keep you on the straight and nrow trading so hang on the line we'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from broke appreciate the call absolutely Katherine

is up in San Antonio Texas Katherine how

can we help hi oh this is so exciting

okay I've always listened to Dave Ramsey

and like I followed his advice and

completely out of debt I just this month

that passed reached over 100k like N Net

worth like super liquid and way to go

Catherine hello thank you and I have

like no debt we have me and my husband have no debt like wow all Investments um

and thanks to D because I'm like a first generation immigrant so definitely

that's what's up amazing yeah and so I

guess my question is this now that you know we're at a point where we are managing like in the six figures I'm

trying to figure out if I should in

invest in like mutual funds or ETFs or

like kind of what balance to have I'm

trying to figure out like make my money

grow right now I have a Target retirement fund for my rth but it's got

like a 7% return annual and I think

those typically are lower than what

account are you talking about is this

your retirement is it an IRA or a 401k

Raw it's a that's a Roth so but is it a

401k or an IRA you can have different uh

Ira okay so this is not through your

employer you set up a Roth IRA you're maxing it out every year I

imagine uh the Roth no so that's kind of

what I'm trying to figure out so I'm maxing out the benefits in my like in my

traditional 401K okay do you have a Roth

401k option through your

employer I do and I actually just

changed that so to tradition

4% uh so 4% rth to rth and then like the

3% to traditional why the

split um I just heard that like at this

income level that I'm making it's like

good to like your to keep your tax rate

from going up but also taking advantage

of my current tax rate it's good to

split half and half so you're doing it

slightly for the tax deduction because on the Roth 401k you don't get the tax

deduction yeah exactly but you'll pay taxes on that money later right so to split it I guess okay

well I'll tell you what I do and what Dave Ramsey does you do what you will with this information Dave and I both do

Roth 401k only and if Dave had traditional money he'll roll it over every year to the Roth side so that it

grows taxfree and when he's in his

retirement if he ever retires at 90

years old that money he it'll be like

net income at that point if you have 2 million sitting in a Roth 41k that's 2 million you can spend without any go

without Uncle Sam getting his grubby hands on it which I love and you're not

worried about what am my tax is going to be in retirement and will tax rates go

up in 30 years when I retire I like not

having to worry about any of that and just knowing that I've already paid the taxes so your question should you do ETF

should you do mutual funds index funds in a retirement account depending on

your options mutual funds are a great uh

bang for the buck ETFs are not bad those

are exchang traded funds I'm sure you know but I'm explaining for the audience they're investment hybrid so it has the diversification of a mutual fund hundreds of stocks in there but it has the tradability of a single stock and so

there's intraday pricing so they can be

bought and sold throughout the day whereas a mutual fund closes at one

price at the end of the day so there's nothing wrong with them but it can create this sort of gamified thing where you want to buy and sell which I hope you never do you want to hold so for

those reasons I would probably stick to mutual funds and index funds ETFs might

have slower a slightly lower cost but

otherwise there's not really no big difference there yeah thanks thanks for

call thanks Catherine for the call and congrats I love that love her story they

are absolutely off and running great advice George good hour my friend all

right don't move folks we might be back

for some of you we might be back for join us on the Ramsey Network app there you go

[Music]

[Music]

hey what are you still doing here you

know the rest of the show's happening on the Ramsey Network app right so you got to jump over there to continue watching

you can download it for free just go to your app store store type in Ramsey Network it's completely free and I'll drop a link in the show notes to make it easy for you so if you're watching on the app you're in luck but if you're watching anywhere else this show is over

for you so jump onto the app and let the

fun continue all right go on now don't

make it weird Okay I I I got nowhere to go so

you need to go okay bye-bye

now all right this is it's getting weird

over there guys what do we do e

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## 231. There's Always Hope When Facing Financial Hardship | February 13, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney. And it's a it's a special show because we're kicking off our money and marriage events and have many people here in studio that are going to be attending the event which is so fun. And so we are here though on this show to take your calls. So you can give us a call at8255225.

The lines are open. So we're here to talk about your life and your money. Up first, oh gosh, all the way in Alaska, we got Aaron. Hi Aaron.

>> Hi. How you doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

Uh so my question is uh now that I am engaged to the most amazing woman in the world um when we do get married we've agreed that we want to combine our finances into one account and do that together. Um but I've I've one I've never combined finances with anybody before uh even in my first marriage. And two is I I actually kind of have some control issues that I know I have. Um so my question is is >> what advice would you guys give to people and how we can be successful in doing that together?

It's a great question. Very self-aware. Aaron, >> wait. Tell me tell me about your control issues.

control issues to say that sentence out loud, that tells me you're you're pretty special. What does control issues mean?

>> I've spent the last couple years in therapy kind of getting over my own personal things and stuff like that the last year or two. Um, I think for me it's I get really frustrated when, you know, part of it's kind of like not getting my way or I think this is the best way to do this. why aren't we doing this way? And then just kind of micromanaging things and stuff like that.

And I know it's been an issue in past relationships.

>> Bro, this is what changing a family tree

looks like in real life. I'm super proud of you, dude. >> Oh, thanks, man. >> Like, like for real.

To to be able to say, I've hurt people in the past. I've not been the guy that I want to be and I want to do something different and I'm going to go get the education and now I'm asking for wisdom on like okay rubber meets the road. How do I do this thing that that's how the whole country will change if people will start doing what you're doing right now. So hear me say I'm proud of you dude.

It's awesome. >> Well done. You mentioned >> the last couple years has been all about that. >> Good.

>> So good. You mentioned this is your second marriage. Is it her second marriage as well? >> It is.

>> It is. Okay. Because we do find with second marriages specifically that not that it's harder to take the step of combining finances, but there's already been so much pain and hurt and untangling of finances if they were combined in the previous marriage that going into the second sometimes it's like a bigger hill to climb to be like, okay, we're going to do this. But the fact that you guys are doing something even differently than your first with money is is so encouraging.

yeah. Yes. So, what I would do is like when we say combine accounts, that really means mostly your primary checking and any savings accounts, right? We're not combining any retirement. We obviously want to take advantage of each of you having your own retirement. And when you're looking at

combining it, there's a couple of things. So, it's the logistical side of just changing checking accounts, which some people we hear that excuse like, oh, I just want to go down to the bank and do it. It's just so much work. So there's that side, but then there's also the side of realizing, okay, she is going to spend money on things that you may not truly understand and vice versa.

And and what's beautiful about that though is that's where the conversations start to happen. Even in the conflict, that starts to happen. So if you can kind of get ahead of that, Erin, and do a budget together, sit down together and walk through where you want your income to go as you guys combine incomes and say this is one. Um, but you can start having those conversations and engagement.

I wouldn't pull any triggers till after you actually are legally married. But, >> right, >> this is a great point and even the wedding planning, you know, is a great kind of springboard into this. Like create a wedding budget. You guys sit down, you know, even have a checking account for the wedding budget and say, "Hey, here's what we're going to spend." And plan that out together.

It's kind of a little bit of a test run before you guys actually combine everything and pay bills together. >> And and I'll give you two practical tips.

>> Yes. Um, and I got this from from Rachel and from Dave. Tip number one is since

you're the controlling guy and you know that about yourself, I'm guessing um to use Rachel's language, you're the nerd, right? You you have a way that things need to be done, right? So you go first and you make the budget and you bring it to your budget meeting and then you

slide it across the table to your wife and you say nothing other than I want

you to look at this and change a few things

and then hold your breath and exhale and do all your breathing exercises as you learned in therapy and all that >> or change as much as she wants. >> Yeah. Ch change what she wants and and then y'all and then here's the beautiful part about it. Here's the second tip.

Anytime y'all get into a conflict on when you say, "I think we can do groceries for $100 this month." And she's like, "Actually, it's 700." And you're like, "Uhuh, I'll just eat right." That you get in those kind of nonsensical things. I want you to use this phrase. The story I'm choosing to make up is.

And for people who struggle with control issues, by framing it that way, you are opening yourself up. You're inviting someone in to challenge your story. And yours might be the story I'm choosing to make up is you don't think I'm smart or you think I'm dumb or you think that I

don't know how to do math or like whatever. And then she can say no that's not the story at all actually. And then now y'all are coming together on an issue. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yeah. You're pairing into my soul right now man. >> Okay. Yeah.

Well I may or may not have control issues myself. So, like being able to just put that on. And by the way, this isn't just going to be your money. This is going to be about sex.

This is going to be about kids. This is going to be about where y'all live. If you can start hard conversations with the phrase, hey, this just happened. And the story I'm choosing to make up about it is, then you give somebody an opportunity to come to connect with you.

I I I say this and I don't mean it to be cheesy, but conflict in marriage can be a great thing. It's a connection point. It means something matters. And when you invite somebody into it, it's amazing.

screwed that up. It's your fault. >> Yeah. It's your fault. Then what you're doing is you're declaring war and they have to defend themselves, right?

>> And so just those two things. And I Rachel, I'm overdramatic. We know that.

>> I like the idea of both of y'all cancelling your current checking accounts and getting a new bank.

>> Unless y'all just have like a broad out relationship because there's something about y'all both had other marriages.

This is like us starting completely over in the same on the same page in the same place. And I kind of like that.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I and I can >> I'm I'm listening. I'm I'm right there with you. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. And and combining money, it is one of the more scary, vulnerable things, especially when you get married later if it's your second marriage, like I said, because you're so used to doing something the way you've been doing it and it's worked for you up until this point. And so changing the way maybe you

not necessarily see money but how you're handling it and then entering into someone else's story, right? That she has her own set of how she grew up, her tendencies, everything. And you guys combining that, it's one of the best things you can do, Erin, for your marriage. It really is.

It is. It is such a central point that so many couples miss out on when they choose not to do it because you end up running on just completely two separate paths and you never intersect. you never have a chance to have conflict because it's like, well, that's just his over there and he's going to just do it. Um, so you guys are you you honestly are you have such courage to step in and do something that's really scary that most couples wouldn't.

I think you'll be better for it. You really will. The intimacy that's created, the conversations that's created, the you you know, the unity on your goals and your dreams, so much comes out of that funnel of money cuz money is a tool that creates the ability to do everything. And when you're on the same page with it, uh, it's beautiful.

So, we're excited for you guys. And you know what? Hold on the line, Aaron.

Christian's going to pick up and we're going to give you every dollar as a wedding gift for >> a premium for a year. A a Ron.

>> Yes. So, you guys can >> This one's going to This one's going to happen. >> It together. >> I'm excited for y'all.

I used to be that guy who bragged about running on no sleep. And then I realized being tired all the time is not a flex.

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That gives you up to 1,200 bucks off the Snowmax mattress, which is the exact one I sleep on. That's casper.com/ramsey.

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Up next, we have Bernardet in Tampa, Florida on the line. Hi, welcome to the show. >> Hi there. How are you doing today?

>> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Well, uh, we are blessed beyond all measure. We have a $800ish house and we have about 334,000

left on the mortgage and we're both looking, we're both united and wanting to pay it off. Yet um we are differing

in where we go for our refinance. I am

we have both been students of Dave Ramsey and I am very very tickled with

wanting to do a 15 but my husband citing

wanting to mitigate risk for the unforeseen future that he might lose his job. Uh wishes to stick with a 30 in the

event that we would have then a lower monthly payment.

>> Sure. just in case. What What makes him think he's going to lose his job?

>> Uh, right before Christmas, he lost one boss that was traumatizing and unseen enough. And then after Christmas, another boss was let go.

>> Oh, wow. >> And so I And he works with computers.

And 5 years ago, computer jobs and

especially administrative computer geeks, no problem finding a job. It's not as comfortable. Now according to him it could take up to a year to find a job and when he did it might not necessarily be for the same price tag. So he's so I

hear him and I respect him and I understand he has handled our finances

swimmingly for the last 15 years of our marriage when we combined our finances and he we have a budget. I'm sitting here looking at my budget. We have mapped out what a three month emergency fund would be and a six-month emergency fund would be >> and we have basically two years worth of emergency fund right now.

>> Oh wow. >> So okay >> we plan on putting a big chunk on our

refinance. Um and then in between all of

this he's also saying I want to go enjoy the Florida waterways. Let's go uh get

some jet skis. There it is.

>> Where are you from? Your accent is just like wonderful.

>> I I can tell you maybe off the air.

>> Oh, there we go. >> Oh my gosh. Sounds like a conspiracy and I like it. Okay. Um Okay. So, a couple

of things. Number one, you guys are in a great spot, FYI. Like, if if if you don't refinance to a 15-year, you guys are going to pay off your house early and and you guys are on track. Like, you are working your way there.

Do you know what I'm saying? like you're not restarting something and changing something big. It's just more how can we effectively do this as fast as possible is what you're looking at. So nothing is on fire for you guys, just FYI.

Like whatever we talk about on this call, you guys are good. You're moving in the right direction. So be encouraged in that. >> And I agree and it was beautiful.

We got to sit down and he showed me. He's like, "Here, honey. Here's our current mortgage and this is what it would look like if we paid it off and did nothing else.

And then here's the 15 and the 15-year accelerated and the 30-year and the 30-year accelerated. And he's like, there it is. It's not that big of a difference in the end, >> right? Yes. Yeah. Because I mean, after you guys refinance, you know, because your interest rate probably will go up a little, right? I mean, if you've had your house this long, if you've paid off half a million dollars of mortgage of your mortgage already, you probably got your loan right before 2020.

>> We've only we've only had it for three years. >> Okay. So, you did get after go down a little bit. >> So, what are you guys What do you guys make a year?

>> Um, he makes over 300,000.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And that's not counting the blessed stocks and some of the other little perks that go with the job.

>> Okay. That's just just base salary. Is that for him? And you guys have a 2-year emergency fund, you said. So, how much if you brought it down to six months, how much will how much could you throw at the house? If you have 300 left, how much is sitting in there?

>> Um, so 6 months as we calculate right now is about 40, we'll say 43,000. And the my

take is let's leave about 7 to eight months of an emergency fund just for an extra buffer. Okay. So, how much extra would you have to throw at the house after all that?

>> You'd think I'd be intelligent enough to write that down. >> Oh, sorry. No, you're How much do you How much do you have saved right now? What's two years for you guys?

>> So, it's about 176,000.

>> One I love how specific you are. Like 176. So, if you kept 75,000 in an

emergency fund, which is double your 40,

and you put a hundred down on this house >> as part of the refinance, >> you're down to 200.

>> Uhhuh. >> And you can flip what he told you right back at him, which and and again, this isn't a game or a competition, but you called us and so we're going to side with you. Um, since it's not that big of a difference, then it's not that big of a difference.

Correct. And what he I've tried to be

when we had our conversation, I asked, "Did you pray about it?" And have you asked or sought counsel? And I've been talking to my dad's. I've been talking to friends. >> I've written to you guys. And for him,

he's come from a different place.

>> Mhm. >> In his life. His his parents had had to he said he grew up wondering whether he would lose their house.

Yeah. >> So, I appreciate. So, for him, he's like, "I'm not quitting. I'm not getting rid of my job. I don't think I'm going to get fired anytime soon." >> No, but he he has in his nervous system, he has a lived experience of scarcity.

This could all go away.

>> So, in his mind, to have the potential

of a lower payment mitigates risk for

him, and that makes him more comfortable. So, >> is he is he I get that. Is he planning on paying the house off early? You guys have a plan to pay it off early.

>> We are the accelerated

concepts that he had. He's anticipating

about 8 and 1/2 years. So when he showed the numbers >> um the 15 year would be about 8.7 and

the 30 year would be about 8.4 and that's not counting any extra windfalls we might put towards it.

>> Okay. Okay. So Bernett, any anytime I'm faced with an eitheror, we have to do this plan or that plan. An exercise I go through and that me and my wife go through whenever it's both when we're at odds on something is we force ourselves to put four or five other variables on the table. >> Correct. >> You make 300 grand a year. You're about to potentially owe only 200 grand on

your home.

>> Uhhuh. >> What if y'all just sucked it up for 18 months and just paid this thing off?

>> Yes, that's my plan. And then all of the risk is off the table completely.

>> You don't need to refinance and get a little lower. All of it. Everything's been done in 18 months. >> And then he can buy the boat he wants in 18 months. He can if he loses his job, y'all can be free. But you're talking about y'all are sitting on so much money. And if I with with earned income

and with with your uh equity, your home, I'm telling you right now, if this is in my house, well, I'll tell you right now, this is exactly what my wife and I have done a couple of times, which is, hey, we're close enough now. Let's just bite the bullet for 18 months and get this thing out of our lives forever and then we take all risk off the table.

>> So, how does that look like for your family? Does that mean no vacations cuz he has a high stress job and we have young ones and he's >> so counting the years.

>> But no, but y'all live in Tampa. You could go down to a public beach and have a great time. That would be a year of

not going to like some >> Yeah. You probably wouldn't blow it out of the water, right? We and we say Bernett and you probably heard this on the show cuz you listen. We always say to be intense in baby steps one through three and then four through six is just being intentional, right?

But for you guys since this is kind of a stress point, something that you're talking about, it's almost a little bit more of that acceleration just to be done with it because of it, you know? So, yeah, we do tell people not to be have a mortgage around for eight more years. Um, especially with these numbers that you guys can do this >> and the potential risk that you'll have in front of you. Think about what he's doing.

I wish he was on the phone. He's holding an electric fence and getting electrocuted from it.

>> What's the electrocution? >> The electrocution is I want to hang on to this mortgage for eight and a half years and I have to keep working this job that's super stressful. I can get laid off from from any moment and I'm scared to death of risk >> and so let's hang on to this thing.

>> And what we're not saying is I do have my license as a nurse. I could go back to work. >> You could and you could get done with this thing in a year, but you don't have to. Well, I can't do that. I do have three young ones. I'm home domestic engineer, as it were. >> There you go. But I mean, I I like the idea of y'all letting go of the electric fence at all. If he's really concerned about risk, and his story rings true with me. I understand that feeling.

>> Then let's clear this thing off the deck. And so what? We give up elaborate

vacations for 18 months. Let's go to the beach every other weekend. We can do that on Saturdays and Sundays, but let's get this thing out of our lives for good. And then we take the 15, 30 year that proxy war off the table.

>> Yeah. And it's not a lofty goal. These numbers totally do.

>> 300 grand. >> You could do it. You can do it.

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So, you've missed the opportunity for the top tier ticket. But if you are debtree, there's still a chance to celebrate and get the upgrade to the preferred for some extra access, better seating, and uh yeah, just some little surprises here and there. So, if you have not checked out this cruise, we are going again March of 2027 and we're doing the Western Caribbean.

And this cruise was so much fun when we did it last year. And so, um, yeah, I mean, the the time on board with all the passengers, an entire boat full of people that have been working the plan and getting out of debt. It is just some of the best people, honestly. >> Awesome.

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Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much for for taking my call. I've been a long time long time

listener and I just purchased um the Ramsay book, but it hasn't arrived to me yet. and I've just gotten ourselves my my wife and I into some trouble here and just looking for for advice and solutions on how to get it taken care of. >> Yes. >> Glad you're here, brother. >> What's going on?

>> Um well, I um there is some consumer

there is consumer debt. There is um

18,000 in personal loan. Um

we have 9,800 uh in a vehicle loan. Um the other vehicle is is paid in full. We have um

another loan, a heliloc loan of 44,000.

>> Okay. >> And our mortgage, our um we did

everything right with our mortgage. We put, you know, an acceptable amount down. I think we put like 25% down and we still owe we still owe 272 on our on

our home. >> Okay.

>> What's your income, brother? How much do you make household?

>> Um I make I make 95 and my wife makes

140. >> Oh, sweet. >> Good. Okay. So, >> I know I I I know that we can I I I know

I'm sorry to interrupt. I I know that we can, you know, take care of this in a

relatively short amount of of time, but

I just I've been listening to you guys for so long and would just value your your opinion on things.

>> Let me say this first. Rachel, walk you through a plan.

I can hear it in your voice, man. Like,

>> I'm I'm It's been a long time.

>> Yeah.

Like, hear me say this, and I'm not saying this lightly. I'm glad that you are here.

>> Yeah. >> I'm proud of you for for recognizing the challenge you and your family are are challenges y'all are in and a y'all dug

yourself a pretty nice hole and you have a humongous shovel to dig out of it. But you can't go anywhere if you're going to carry around all the past mistakes you made. >> Yep. >> So, we got to set them down and say, "Cool, here we are.

Don't ever want to be here again." And we're going to head forward and get out of this mess. I I'm ready. I'm ready.

>> Justin, can I ask you said you've been listening for a while. What caused um what caused some of this stuff? What was the car situation? What's the $18,000 personal loan? Has life just happened and it's just been exhausting and you guys feel like you had no way out. Well, life life did happen, but to be perfectly honest, I I put us in this situation and I have I have taken uh the

necessary steps for quite some time now to um to correct that.

>> Are you in recovery? >> So, um well, it's it's not uh it's not um

drugs or alcohol related or anything like that. It was gambling. I was going to say, yeah, which is the the curse on

our generation right now. >> For sure. >> Yeah. And I and I never used to I never

used to be one. In fact, uh the reason

why we were in such a good position earlier on in our uh in our marriage was

I mean obviously we you know we both contribute and things like that but I was just a I was a stickler on on things

and I I think I I think we just got to a

point where we were where we were doing so well >> and kind of let your foot off the gas. I I uh and I made and I made a lot of

mistakes and and it's you know it's been

about it's been about three 3 months now where I haven't I haven't been doing you

know anything and just really really focusing on just refocusing I should say

on >> just taking care just taking care of this and then I I I guess then my next

goal is our next goal I should say is,

"I'm just going to go full throttle at our mortgage." >> That's awesome. >> It's great. Was the um you know, it's it's always interesting because we we get these calls a lot when addiction some level of something is paired with this debt. That's a pretty common equation. And I think what the extra

hill to climb when you're paying this off is like I think there is like a deeper motivation there, especially when you're changing your life and changing your behaviors. But there also can easily be such shame attached to it, right? It's not like, "Oh gosh, we just decided to go on all these crazy vacations and got an $18,000 of credit card," right%. >> Yes.

So you >> But what you were saying, John, is letting that part go because Justin, getting rid of this stuff, we can make a plan. Like that is easy, >> but it really it's going to be a more fulfilling journey when you do that deeper, which you may have already done, but >> but and listen to me. Like I need you to internalize this, okay?

>> Mhm. Yes. If you start this debt paying

off journey and you saddle up next to

your wife and you all agree, y'all y'all make a blood oath and you all pay this debt off. If you wake up every day and keep your budget and check your Every Dollar app, we're going to hook you up with that for free. If you do all that stuff because you think you're a piece of crap and this is what you deserve, I promise

you 100% you're going to crash and burn.

>> Mhm. If you wake up every day and say,

"I'm doing this because I'm worth not

being chained to banks and to mortgages.

I'm doing this because I want to be a guy that my wife can anchor into, my kids can anchor into, because they deserve that." Like, they're worth that.

You'll do this forever.

And that's why shame will bury you if you're not careful.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Cuz that's really what I've been >> I know it is. I can hear it on you. You cannot go through get out. You go through the baby steps because you think you suck and you're an idiot and you're a loser and this is your punishment.

This is the path to freedom. It's not it's not a it's not flogging you for

what you did in the past.

>> Okay. >> Can I ask you guys a a quick question about it? It's It's not I mean I I I

just It's kind of one of those things where I just I How How did I get us

here?

>> I I know that.

>> Hold on. It's not a helpful question right now. That's a question between you and your therapist.

>> We're going to start doing the next right thing before we know why.

>> Okay. Because that that's a trap. It's a cultural trap.

>> Okay. Like, are you trying to figure out and get to the root of why I'm gonna stop yelling at my wife before I stop yelling? That's that's that's the wrong order.

>> But you do need >> you've got to do the work. Yeah. You got to talk to somebody. You need to be in a recovery group. You need to do that stuff, of course. But we're going to start >> we're going to stop gambling today.

We're going to stop borrowing money today.

>> Mhm. >> Before we get to the root of, you know, what happened when all that stuff is well and good. I wrote a book about it. It's important, but it's not the right order. Right now, we're gonna stop the harming behavior.

And Rachel's gonna walk you through a plan right here. It's pretty simple, especially for guys that make as much money as y'all do.

>> Yeah. So, >> we can I just say one real quick thing?

I I guess I got a little off track. And we do have we we do have a I I guess I

would consider a large a large sum of of

money, but I guess I would consider that my wife's because her mom did pass away about four years ago. And it's in a Roth

IRA and there's >> Yeah, I wouldn't touch that, Justin. Yes. So, keep that all anything retirement, 401k, Roths, do not touch.

>> Not because it's hers, but because it's in a retirement account. >> That's right. Because of the tax. Yes. Yes. Keep that there. And then if you guys have any stocks, any savings anywhere else, throw it at this debt.

But honestly, you guys can have this paid off. I mean, with your income in in 18 months, you could do this very, very quickly, Justin. So you guys pay off the smallest debt first to the largest and include the heliloc and then later you can start investing and then we can look at paying off the house.

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>> Oh man, I just pre-eread this question and I felt a rant coming on. So, you have to go first, Rachel. >> Oh, I can't wait. Read it.

>> Today's question comes from Marco in Arkansas. Marco, this is for you, brother. Why do you encourage people to have children in baby step two while they're paying off debt? I understand that babies can be unexpected, but why do you encourage listeners to have a child when it will add a large line item to the budget that could go towards paying off debt?

could go towards debt. Wouldn't that be a better plan?

Okay, here's what I would say. If it

would be if the only thing you cared about at life was money. Money is like a thing to help your life. So create a life that you love and let money support that. So >> yes, get married during baby step two.

Have babies during baby step two. Like like money is not your life. This is not your life. Now sometimes it has to be for a season to get yourself in a better financial position and you may be kind of obsessed for a year or two to get out of debt. Like absolutely, but that doesn't pause the bigger things in life which are your health, your spiritual life, your family. Like those things

trump money. You have to understand that. Now again, I will say with the caveat always there are sacrifices you make but we're not sacrificing those things. Those are that creates a full life. So no, have babies. Have babies and baby step two. Have two babies and baby step two. Make it a two twofer.

>> Have five. Have five babies. Marco, >> I wonder if Marco has babies. I will say out of all the Ramsay personalities, not to throw him under the bus, he's not here.

Maybe he can come in and do a segment, George is someone that's like, "Hey, if you are stressed to the max and you keep on have bait, you're going to continue to be stressed." Like he he has >> I know, but George also opens his garage with a cell phone. He's he's like a special >> case of anxious saying on an extreme case extreme extreme extreme.

don't know, think twice about I think that's what George may say. But overall, my philosophy is the big things in life are always going to trump money. And so have a life that you want.

>> Well, go John. Now, here's your go.

>> That's just I I >> What? You have to rant. I barely ranted.

>> No, I'm good. I Because I'll be ugly. I >> No, you won't. Go. You're never >> Let me say this. as somebody who

we struggled to have kids for years.

We've lost a lot of pregnancies >> and I've got two kids that if you had

told like again like look at on paper

you have a child it messes up your money it changes your relationship changes your sex life. It it changes everything.

>> Yeah. Not just >> so the algorithm on paper doesn't work.

And if I could snap my fingers and have

one thing different in my life, I would have more kids running around my house >> because of the depth of and the purpose

and the like you don't know who you are,

I believe, until you feel the weight on the squat rack. And that can be some people can't have kids. I've been there.

And so that can be in your purpose. That can be in the things that you're doing. That can be in the responsibilities that you put yourself underneath that you get to carry. That's where you find purpose.

And so I can't think of anything greater

any any greater calling if you're able to than to go have kids. Yeah. And so to pause it because I'm a part of this plan or man, you'll pay off debt as you go

because I mean following your same line of logic, Marco.

>> Um and again, by the way, I want to be sensitive to those who can't. I've been there. I know to those who have lost.

I've been there. I get it. Um and I

can't also not say that it's not super stressful. Doesn't cause fights in your marriage. It doesn't cause it's it's hard. >> Yeah. >> And anything in the world worth doing is

hard, right? >> But following your same thing, Marco, like let's not have a car then cuz that's an extra expense. Let's just walk and let's not have a home. Let's let's live in a tent. We can do that cheaper.

Like you can follow this line of thinking all the way out. >> Yes. That's so true. >> So we want you to follow a plan that you can actually do. >> We want you to make sacrifices where you need to. And the sacrifices we're talking about are going out to eat for God's sakes and vacations for crying out loud and working extra job. All that stuff's important, especially for a season. But man, the big stuff

like build a marriage with somebody while you are getting out of debt. That's amazing. >> Navigate having a kid and having to also make sacrifices. Yes.

Learn how to say no and learn how to say not yet. All those things make you give you the life that you really want down the road. So, >> and I would say too along those same lines, I think it's so common for people to say, "We'll have kids >> win." And it could be a financial goal, a career goal, a whole thing. And it's like there will always be something to be chasing, right?

>> Yeah. >> That's where I've changed in life. I'm a little bit like, >> have kids, have them soon. Have them soon if you Yeah.

>> Uh, well, Marco, you're fun. Thanks for Thanks for the question. >> Hey, you know what? I'm guessing I'm guessing his wife. >> Here's what I I think Marco's wife wants to have kids. >> I know. >> And he's trying to come up with reasons to not. >> I want to hug her.

>> Lord, >> have six. Marco, >> have six. Okay, let's go to Mariah in San Diego. Hi, Mariah. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me. I am so nervous to talk to you guys. >> Oh, don't be. >> I'm nervous. I'm sitting by Rachel for How do you think I feel?

>> We're glad you called. >> My husband says I'm a glutton for pain by calling cuz he knows you're going to yell at me. No, you called when Dave's not here. We will not yell. I promise.

>> I know. Thankfully, I'm I am relieved.

>> So, we have been half listeners for the

last eight years of our marriage. And we

>> pretty much impulsively bought a house because we wanted to have a house before our first baby. And so, we've been in this house for four years now.

>> Okay. >> And it is 50% of our income.

>> Okay. >> And it is exhausting. It's like sucking the life out of us. However, my husband

runs his business out of our threecar garage. >> So, we don't we don't really know what to do because we have renters and that's

how we stay alive. And so, calling us,

>> correct? Um, two are family and then one somebody that we found um and we did background checks and everything. And he's phenomenal. So, we love our renters and we love the environment in our home.

It's just if one of them were to back out or all three of them, you know, it we would not survive.

>> Yes. Is it 50% with just what you guys are paying plus what the renters are paying or that includes the renters?

>> 50% includes the renters. We get 2400 a

month from renters.

>> Okay. >> Um and we make 6,400 on our portion. So,

we get about almost 10,000 a month. Um,

on average, it's about 9,500 a month.

>> Okay. >> And all of our house mortgage and bills

come out to about 53 a month. >> Well, how much is just the mortgage? Not the bills, but just the mortgage.

>> 43. >> 43. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, you're definitely in a high-risisk situation and you're having to >> Yeah. depend on these people exactly how you're feeling. Yeah. I think I unless he's going to be getting a significant raise anytime soon.

Is the business he's running his own business. Is there an upward trajectory? Like are you guys looking out and say okay yeah in two years it's going to double like have you have you done projections like how it's been a pattern so far or >> Yeah.

Um so he's not even a year in and he did

125,000 before taxes >> last year. Um, and we took home about 86

of it. And so he's been doing really

well and he took off and because of his experience with his previous job, he's got really frequent clients. Um, and

he's getting a lot of really great work.

So, he sees a lot of growth and I see a lot of growth in the company. >> How fast will that grow?

>> Potentially in the next year, we're even thinking that he could double it. So, we see a lot of growth, but that's the biggest thing is we need the threec car garage because renting a space out here for that price is at least 4 to6,000.

>> Yeah. >> For the space that he needs with the tools and everything that he would need to move. >> Right. Right. >> But my my fear is you've already left the house.

>> What do you mean by that? Like my fear is you're already out >> and y'all can come up with a bunch of reasons to stay, but I feel you're already out. >> Yeah, the stress is weighing on you, Mariah. So, what I would do is I would have benchmarks for you guys cuz if you doubled it, then it goes from 50% to about 35% if my numbers are right.

And then if you double the business again, right? If it really is that successful, you guys will be fine in 24 months. But the question is, you have to have benchmarks. And if you can sustain that for 24 months and hold your breath and say, "Let's see if this works." I you could, but if those if it does not double in a year, you guys have to have a hard and fast rule to say we we're selling.

We're getting out of this. If it does not happen, >> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and the phone lines are

open. You can give us a call at8825-55225.

And we're going to go to Little Rock, Arkansas and talk to Skyler. Hi Skyler.

Hey, how are you doing today? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

>> Well, I make annual income of 31,700

a year and I'm kind of in the bind with a car payment and ATV payment situation, too. Um, the car is worth like 28. It's

$28,000 when I got done financing it.

And the payment's like 529 a month.

>> Holy smokes.

>> Yeah. And then you went and bought an ATV. >> Yeah. For $10,000 and that's 252 a

month. So >> I don't want to kick you while you're down, but that's a very Arkansas thing to do, right? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> It's a Texas thing to do, too. So there we go. >> Yeah. >> Some pot talking to the kettle here.

Wow. >> Yeah. It's terrible. So I'm thinking I'm just going to have to get rid of this car. >> Correct. >> And I got a cash car sitting over here.

It's a Honda Civic 2009. So >> I'm fixing it. I'm fixing it up. So,

>> good for you. How How much money will we have to put into that?

>> Not very much. I got a new water pump installed and all it needs now is a oil.

>> Well, that's great. >> BBT oil um gasket and it'd be good to go. >> So, why are you calling us? You already know what to do. >> Well, so you got 28,000. Is that what you owe on the car? How much could you sell it for?

>> Come on. >> Oh, no.

>> Say it again. >> The negative equity is $10,000.

So, I'd be negative 10,000 upside on the

car. >> Okay. So, you can sell it for 18 is what you're saying. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you just have to take a small loan out if you can for 10 grand. And how about the >> Is there any way Is there any way I can go through fair winds or is there any

possible way I could do it that way?

>> You'll have to call them and they'll sit down and check out your your history.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a credit union or a local credit union would be a great option. They're usually more willing to work with people and looking at their specific situation. >> How about the ATV? What could you sell it for? >> Oh, I'm not really sure. I haven't looked in the value on the ATV yet.

>> Okay. >> It might be maybe the value is like$7,000 possibly since it's new.

>> Yep. Well, I would encourage you on that one to probably just try to save up the three grand if you can for the difference. >> Yeah. um and and be done with it. And

thank God you have this other car. I mean, honestly, that's a that's a lifesaver in this situation. >> I used to be debtree.

>> Yeah. >> I used to be debtree a long time ago. I was managing money really good and I just had a I messed up.

>> Yeah, it happens. >> We've all been there, dude. >> It happens. How old are you, Skyler?

>> I am 27. >> Okay, good for you. What do you do for a living? >> I work at Index Screens. I'm a delivery driver working three days a week. I deliver teeth. >> Okay. to the North Arkansas region.

>> What do you deliver >> teeth? >> I deliver dentures. I'm a delivery driver for Green. >> This is becoming my favorite call of all time ever. >> I deliver teeth. Amazing. To North Arkansas. Amazing. Amazing.

>> What do you do? What are you doing the other two days a week? >> The other the other four days a week?

>> Well, I spark I spark all the time and I just work.

>> You spark all the time. Is that like a weed reference?

No, it is a it's a grocery delivery

platform through Walmart, you know.

Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

>> Um, how much is your How much is your teeth delivery job? How much does that pay? >> Uh, 15 20 an hour.

>> Okay. Do you get more doing that or the Spark? Grocery delivery?

>> Grocery delivery I could pick up like maybe on like four weeks like $800. So,

that's a little extra money in my pocket. It's just uh if I can get these car payments situated, I'll be so much better off. >> Yeah, but you're you're still very very economically vulnerable, brother.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

50 or something, right? >> Yeah. You can't you can't afford you can't afford a flat tire.

>> No. >> Okay. So, >> I can barely afford tires on this car and I had to put it on a credit card, which >> No, you didn't. You chose to. But here's the deal. >> I chose to. >> Here's the deal. Um,

why don't you pursue more stable work?

>> Well, I could possibly find a different

position. It's just >> you could, thousand million billion% find a different position.

>> It's just I I love three days a week, though. But sometimes we have to sacrifice to achieve what we want to

achieve. >> I think we do, Skyler. I think we do. I think 40 hours a week >> working Dude. >> Yeah, we got we got we got we got to up the we got to up the ante.

>> You have to get in the game of life.

>> Skyler, not that money brings happiness.

We're not saying that. But there is something about having stability.

>> Meaningful work does bring happiness.

>> Okay, fair. Thank you, Ken Coleman. Yes, thank you. >> It does.

If you ever call again more stable, if I could be more stable and have no payments, I mean, that's just the way to go. >> Well, exactly. But I want I'm going to send you >> and an emergency fund and a retirement account. Like there's some Yeah, there's um >> Are you dating?

>> I do have the Every Dollar app, huh? Oh, good. >> Yeah, but you don't have any money to to budget with. >> Yes, he does.

He's got like three grand a month >> and and and 80% of it goes to >> car payments, right?

>> Food, not dying, ATV. Okay. AK brother.

Um >> I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

has a career assessment in there.

>> I want you to get serious. I want you to do this exercise tonight. I'm being totally serious and I appreciate you having fun with us on this call.

>> Listen, sir. >> I want you to write a letter to 37year-old you tonight.

>> Okay? >> And I want you to write him a letter about the life he's going to have because you chose to get off your butt and stop coasting literally through life.

>> Yeah. And the work you put in today in your

entering into your late 20s and into your early 30s will be the platform from

from strength, from integrity, from work ethic, from skills um and and >> contribution to the world, >> purpose. People that you meet and shake hands with and they learn to trust you.

Those things will be the anchor points of your life at 37. Mhm.

>> And so I want you to write yourself a letter and say, "Here's who I chose that we were going to become." You're welcome.

>> And how I discovered the Ramsey Show is I know this guy that lives in Heaver. Um

he told me about the Ramsay Show and I got involved and I started listening to the podcast. I was like, "Wow, this is the same situation I'm in." >> Well, game on then. >> A mirrored mirrored situation.

>> Yes. I listen to the O podcast every day going down the road delivering dentures and working. >> Not every day, only three days a week.

>> Yeah, three days. Well, if I can find old ones, I'll review the old ones.

>> Oh, Skyler, you know what? You're great. I I would I'm with I'm with John. Yeah.

Um finding some purpose, you know what I mean? Like finding >> By delivery dur is is such a great gift.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying that, but it's the it's the coasting, sleepwalking vibe that we're getting >> that it's like, hey, just let's add a little bit more >> a whole bunch more >> a whole bunch more of excitement and spark. Ask yourself that scary, terrifying question.

You only get one one roll of the dice in this life, >> one life. >> Are you going to are you just going to cash it out, barely getting by, >> driving 3 days a week, or are you going to say, "Hey, I was put on this planet to contribute, and here's what that's going to look like." And part of contribution means I'm going to have peace. I'm going to be anchored. I'm going to have some security so that I can offer that for other people.

And man, that means not working just kind of coasting 3 days a week. That means getting after it. >> Yeah. Hold on the line, Skyler.

Christian will pick up. We'll get you Ken's book. Um, but you you have some great foundational things that you're doing already, you know, with habits, with money.

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Up next we have Susan in Indianapolis.

Hi Susan. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks so much for having me. What an honor it is to speak with the both of you. >> Oh well, thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> Okay. My question in the most condensed form is how should I handle finances as

I go through a divorce?

>> Ah. >> Oh man. What what's going on?

um told myself I wouldn't cry.

>> Oh, it's okay. >> No, you're good. I'm glad you're here.

>> My husband of 21 years decided to walk

away. Um and I was completely blindsided

by it. >> Um which has left me living in fear and

uncertain of my future.

>> So, I'm trying to solve for peace and

>> um security. Yeah.

>> Um and Dr. John, earlier in this um

today's calls, you had talked about having options and I have some options

and I was just wondering if you can help me with the best step forward.

>> Yeah, go for it. Put some on the table for us. >> Um well, so we currently live in um my

husband's family farm. We purchased the

home a few years ago and remodeled and I

thought this would be my forever home.

Um, I do not want to leave. However, he

does not want the home, but he does not want me living there because I will no

longer be a part of that family.

>> So, here before we get going, I want to give you a couple of of frameworks.

Okay. >> Sure.

>> Whenever somebody files for divorce, whenever somebody says, "I'm leaving,"

what happens next? You go from

married to we go to a business transaction, >> right? >> And so I want you to have this I want you to tattoo this on your like not for

real, but like I want you to tattoo this on your spirit. Okay?

>> Okay. >> He no longer gets a vote.

>> Y'all are making a business transaction.

When he chose to leave you, he took his

name all out of the box that sits in the

middle of your table of people who get to speak into your life.

And for a time being, he's going to be replaced with a lawyer.

>> You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes. >> And this is how you begin that because what you're feeling, what you're what you're talking about, I've heard this I mean thousands of times. What you're what you're that that sense of loss and bewilderment. There's literally a death and it was your marriage and you have to grieve it as such. But that takes time.

But that other thing you're feeling is a

sense that you don't even trust yourself. >> Right. >> Right. How how did I miss this? I should have seen this coming. What should I have done differently? All those questions and there's never a there's never going to be great answers to those questions.

But it's natural that you ask them. But the way you begin to gain regain trust in yourself that the ground becomes firm underneath you is you begin drawing very

clear concrete boundaries about not what he wants but what you are going to do next.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And that's why we hire a good attorney. They're worth their weight in gold because it's literally hiring somebody to fight for you when you can't fight for yourself.

Okay. >> Okay. And so if you want to keep this house, then you have to go to the next layer, which gets a lot of folks in your situation in trouble, which is, I'm emotionally attached to this house. This was my forever home. I don't want to leave, but I can't I have a math problem. I can't afford to live here.

And that's what you have to be brutally honest with yourself about.

>> And then he gets to buy out, write you a humongous check for his part of the for your part of the equity.

Currently, he is paying for the mortgage

and all living living expenses while I stay there. And um his proposal is that

I can stay for um up to maybe three

years.

>> Let me say this. He doesn't get a proposal. I mean, he can tell his attorney what he proposes. And we are, yes, we're in negotiations right now.

But so I'm just trying to figure out what is best for me in this negotiation.

>> In no world am I going to let the guy who just walked out on a 20-year marriage be my landlord?

>> Yeah. >> No way. >> How much is the house worth, Susan?

>> Um, probably about 350,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys owe on the low end? >> Um, 240.

>> Okay. and question with the family with this being family land.

Number one, I'm just curious. Do you do you enjoy his f like that you want to create a life still in that?

>> I would I would go I would go to to like a a estate sale and get a whole bunch of toilets and just line the property line with old toilets. That's what I would do. >> We bought three acres in the middle of 80. And um so they own all of the land

around where we are.

>> Okay. Cuz when sometimes when there's a family >> land deal, there's something written within like I mean is there anything that like legally you could take this on? Correct. Like you guys >> No, there's there's nothing in writing that um we said we would never sell it outside of the family.

There's nothing in writing. That's what worries me a little bit, Susan, is that my only fear, even if the numbers work, and I could be wrong, that you stay on this property with his family surrounding you. You want to start a new life, and then you're like, "Hey, I'm I'm just making this up. Me and this this other guy in 5 years want to move close over here, and now you're stuck, and you can't sell that house because >> I wouldn't want to do that.

17 but >> when he's older I don't want to put him in that either. >> Okay. Let let me say I'm going to say one more thing and it's costic what I'm going to say. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And this is like a hard truth. And if you and I were hanging out I would wait for about an hour to say this thing but we only have a few minutes. Okay.

>> Hit me. >> The life you had is over.

>> Gone. Mhm. the dreams, the wants, the

things that I want to be in the future are now over. They're different now.

>> I hear you say that all the time. So, thank you for >> I know, but it hits hard. I know. And I don't say it lightly. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be braggadocious.

>> No, it's okay. >> But trying to think of the way things should have been where y'all have this amazing place and this amazing property and you deed it over to your son who's then 28 and he's got a young family, all of that. It's your husband ended it. He set it on fire.

And so that dream, that picture you had of coming back to your old house that he now lives, your son now lives in with his young family for Thanksgiving, you have to put that picture that you've painted in the grieve pile.

>> You get what I'm saying? >> I do. >> And I hate that for >> And we want to do what's best for Susan.

Susan in the next 3 years and Susan in the next 10 years and 15 years, you know. So, it is a it's a um looking so

far ahead, which is probably so hard to do right now in the middle of the pain.

Um but I just don't want you to make a bad financial decision that traps you in something that Susan 10 years from now can't freely live out.

>> Got it. So then I do have some other options. Um but I don't know if these are good options either. Okay, let's do Yeah, tell us what those are.

>> In, you know, it in the divorce, I I get

half of the 401k

>> and my financial adviser has told me

that I could take that without penalty and put that towards the down payment on a house. >> Do you have anything else in retirement?

>> I do. Um, I will get about 31,000 in a

Roth IRA and then I have about 10,000 in

mutual funds. How much is going to come over in the 401k?

>> All of it. >> I mean, how much >> What dollar amount is that?

>> I'm sorry. >> What dollar amount is half of the 401k?

What would that be? >> No. Oh, uh 106,000.

>> 106. And then um and then equity you'll get probably 50,000ish.

>> 50 grand.

>> Yeah. >> Um and how much do you make a year? How much are you working?

>> I am 45.

>> You make 45,000. Okay. Yeah, I would not pull out of that 401k. >> I would, you know, Susan, honestly, I would probably just go rent something for a year >> and settle some of this and then you can really take your time looking because if you have the ability to put down a great down payment and find, you know, a little home and your payment is no more than 25% of your take home. It's all in the parameters of buying a home wisely.

I would be great if you did that, but you don't have to do that next week. >> No, don't do that. Don't do that for six to nine months. I would put I would put a lot of this stuff and I would just hold it and wait a year and grieve and

then let's look at options. But I probably would get out of this house if I was you.

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Well, over on the debtree stage, we have Kyle and Sarah from Akran, Ohio. Hey you

guys. >> Hello. >> Hi. Welcome to the show.

>> Thanks for having us. >> Well, what an exciting day. Hey, so how much debt have you guys paid off? >> Paid off 150k. Whoa.

>> Oh my gosh. What did that consist of?

>> That was our house. >> Oh, dude.

>> Paid off the house, baby. Steph, >> you look like you are 17. How old are you? >> I'm 33. >> 37. >> Oh my. >> You have a paid off house at 33? Yeah, we do. >> Well done. How long did that take you?

>> 47 months. Just shy of four years.

>> 47 months. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, and how much how much were you guys making during that time? uh started right around a 120 uh upped it to about 145.

>> Okay. Oh my gosh. Okay. So, what happened? What was it four years ago that you thought we're going to pay off our house? We're going to be we're going to be in our early 30s, mid30s and have a paid off house. How did that happen?

>> Yeah. So, we ended up buying our house in September 2021. And almost

immediately, I kind of looked at Sarah and we were like, "Hey, what what would happen if we were able to go ahead and knock this out in less than 5 years?" And uh yeah, we just started tackling it, just attacking it uh every single month. And we really looked at it and we said, "Hey, how do we have more options in our life, have more peace?" Really just wanted to go ahead and just provide more uh more wiggle room, I would say.

>> Oh my gosh. How much is the house worth?

>> House is worth around 330.

>> Okay. Amazing, you guys. That's that's incredible. How does it feel?

>> It feels absolutely amazing.

>> I mean, just wild. H Okay. So, what was the journey like? How what did you guys do? What were things that you said no to? What were things that maybe you added on? I mean, you were pretty intense. Like, you guys really really were focused on this. >> Yeah, we were attacking it pretty heavily. But I would say that one of the first things that we did was just come

in more prepared. Uh so when we actually came into the like house buying process, we were like, "Okay, how much can we put down?" And we ended up putting down 115K.

And again, your principles here at Ramsay helped us do that. just to be able to get that within that 25% Yeah.

>> uh uh mortgage payment that we were looking to try to to have. And so so if but if you if you walked in that's I I want I want to double click on that amount of that discipline that y'all had as a couple. If you walked in with 115 grand, you qualified for a house twice as much as 350 grand.

>> Yeah. >> On your income. they would have given you the world and y'all said, "No, we think we can find joy and have a great life in this house >> that we can own outright in five years."

>> Yeah. And it was during the times when the interest rates were super low, too.

So, that was kind of advice that we were going back and forth. >> Oh, yeah. Also, it was really stupid that y'all paid that off, right?

>> So dumb. Dummies, dummies, right? Nobody pays it off with a low interest rate.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, for you guys as a married couple, what does that look like? You know, we're talking about the money and marriage event this weekend.

How did you work together as a team?

Who's like more of the free spirit?

Who's more I'm assuming you're probably more of the nerd, Kyle. Is that true? >> I I am definitely more of the nerd. I felt it. I felt it. I felt that energy.

>> I have my my every dollar budget. We have our spreadsheet that we were looking at um on a regular basis. And that gave me a lot of, I would say, momentum and gave us momentum just to be able to see, you know, if you change that number on that spreadsheet, how quickly could we get out get out of debt going from we had a 15-year mortgage and start playing with those numbers and you're able to see, okay, we could get out in 10 years. What could happen if we up it another $500, another thousand, hey, we could get done in five years and >> and the interest you don't pay when you do that.

>> That was the big piece for me. >> I was gonna say that's what's motivating. Same with me, girl. That's the motivation of my >> 10 years of interest y'all get to keep >> and spend on whatever you want.

>> I was actually looking at I was actually looking at your values uh here at Ramsey just the other day and it talks about relentless focus over time multiplied by God equals unstoppable momentum. And I really do think that's been our story >> is just looking and saying, "God, we're praying for abundance here." And just seeing, you know, those extra paychecks come in or those little bonuses come in and be able to say, "Hey, we're throwing an extra two grand, three grand at this." and really just having that belief that it's possible at the end of the day.

So, I think that's been our biggest move. >> All right. So, Sarah, I'm getting some along for the ride energy from you.

>> No, no vacations, no new cars.

>> I would say we were not necessarily gazelle intense, which you shouldn't be.

So, that's good towards the house. >> Good. Good. Good. So, you all live some life, too. We backed off.

>> Kyle would have been. >> Yeah, he would have been. >> But he needs you. He needs you to balance a good balance. Excellent.

>> So, we built in incentives along the way. Um, we were able to do some renovations to the house. Um, we had our daughter that took some fertility um treatment monies. Um, so there were

definitely some celebrations along the way, especially when we hit those big um milestones. Do y'all do y'all have a a a a technique or a trick that or a hack or whatever you want to call it that y'all used when Kyle you got that extra check

and you were like we could get the principal down to this and you were like yeah but I want a human in the house like I want I want a child. How did y'all come to some sort of consensus?

>> We definitely used the principles of

just putting some in different places.

um a large majority towards the house of course, but then we have um like syncing funds that are set up for the things that are really important to our family.

So, we know in order which ones we want to fund first >> with any extra. >> That's great. >> I do have to say though that there was definitely those moments where I had, you know, we had a big chunk of money ready to go towards the house and life happens and all of a sudden you're like, "Hey, we got an extra three grand to put towards the house." But then the car breaks down and it just so happens to cost exactly >> three grand. >> Of course.

>> But I I guess when we've looked at that, it's always been God providing uh through that to say, "Hey, you know what?

Like it was supposed it's supposed to be this number, now it's not. And I feel like I got ripped off somehow or whatever. instead of looking at it like you did on the other side. Thank God.

>> It still hurt. >> It still hurt. >> Yeah. >> That's amazing. Do you guys Did you have people in your life that you were telling or did you guys keep it kind of on the down low that you were like we're going to just kind of do this between us or did you have people cheering you on?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Uh I would say that we were definitely cheering each other around because we just kept having that that vision of what would life be like when this payment was gone and what could we do with that money? But again, just letting our our parents and our families know, hey, this is what we're doing.

We're chasing it down. >> Did they think you were crazy or were they encouraging? >> Encouraging. >> They were good.

>> What a great day. >> Yeah, it was just really powerful just to to have people in our corner cheering us on. >> Absolutely incredible, you guys. Well, you did kind of the impossible.

I mean, today to say that you can pay off your house is most people most people would say no, that's not possible. It's not possible to buy a house. It's not possible to do any of this. And you're living proof that you can and in your 30s, 33 and 37.

How long you guys have been married?

>> Okay. >> Okay. And y'all have done this hard thing together. Y'all got been through fertility treatments. You've paid off a house together. You can look ahead of you and come what may, y'all know we've been through worse. We can handle this.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's really good. >> That's so awesome. >> Amazing. You guys, well, y'all are incredible. Okay. Is is the baby here?

>> She's here. She's here. Okay. Are you going to bring her up for the debtree scream or you going to hold off?

>> We're going to hold off. We just are nervous if we raise our voices. She >> You know what? That's fair.

We've had many tears, not happy kids. And we definitely stay from that. You know what? That's probably wrong.

>> Really happy parents and terrified young kids. >> Terrified kids. Okay.

>> I I'll go ahead and go first and I'll let Sarah share. But I really do think it comes down to belief. Um, when I paid off my student loans, 45K in in a year, paid off my car in a year, those are track records that I had that I knew it was possible. Yeah. >> I just always come back to the quote, uh, Henry Ford, whether or not you think you can or you can't, you're right.

>> Yes. >> And we just knew that we could.

>> I love it. >> So, yeah, I just think the belief part is so key. >> So big. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And I just think having a unified mission definitely that's our big thing in marriage is being unified. Um, but with this too, like it might have been Kyle's big dream to to come here and do all of this. Um, but then I I latched on to that too because we need to be unified in all of our our visions.

And then just consistency and being able to track what we're doing and and staying on top of it that way. >> We have weekly weekly kind of marriage meetings and finance meetings and so it's good to stay on track. >> Dude, y'all should teach the money marriage retreat this weekend. >> I know y'all can see you guys.

>> So good. All right, you guys.

their house, making 120 to1 145. They did it in four years. All right, you guys count it down. Let's hear your big deathree scream. >> 3 2 1, >> we're debtree.

Well, Dave, you know, on the show all the time, we get calls about cars, used cars. What's one thing you want folks to know? >> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular, proper maintenance.

>> Yeah, that's a big deal. I know when Sam and I moved from South Florida up to Tennessee, that's the first thing you're looking for. You need somebody who can take care of your car. So, when we found Christian Brothers Automotive, it was a no-brainer, and they've been absolutely great.

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We wish we could get to every call that calls in because usually some people leave voicemails and we can try to call them back and get them on the show and then sometimes we can't. So if you have a money question and you want an answer to your specific situation, head to our

website and use Ask Ramsay. So this is our new free AI tool that was built and

trained on money proven principles. So

we have taken the money principles here at Ramsey and gone through it all and said okay here is how we would answer this question. And so it really is amazing. You can ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com or if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast you can click the link in the description. All right let's head to Houston and we have Chris on the line >> town. What's up Chris? >> Hi Chris.

>> Hello. Hello. Thank you for taking the call. >> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Well, I have a dilemma or trilma. I don't know how to call it, but um I'm big car enthusiast and and I really want to send a fun sedan. We have two SUVs,

fully functional. We don't need another car, but I want to. And I just want to

hear your opinion if if it's the time to buy something like that or or I should still wait or not buy at all. I don't know what would be the answer from your side. >> Well, number one, I just want to shout you out, dude. The fact that you called and said, "I don't need this. I want it." Already like put you in a different

category of person that usually calls us. Usually people are calling us and trying to explain why they need this thing so bad. >> So, shout out to you for just keeping it keeping it real, dude. That's awesome.

>> Okay, so Chris, what's your uh financial situation? Do you have consumer debt?

>> No, we only have a mortgage $200,000.

>> 200,000. How much do you guys make a year?

about 17080 depends on the bonuses and

stuff like that. >> 178. Is that what you said?

>> 170 or 180k per year.

>> 180k. Okay. And um what do you have

saved? How much money do you have that you would spend on this car?

>> Well, uh I checked the the net or the

asset every quarter and in January we were close to 800,000 for everything like uh retirement accounts.

>> Oh, retirement. Okay. savings uh the

equity in the house. So everything total came to about a little bit less than 800. Uh we have 45 in cash and another

17 um this what it's called like

investment account that is taxable account. >> Okay. Is the 45 in cash is that all you

have? Does that include an emergency fund too? Is that what you would use in case of an emergency or do you have another fund for that?

Well, uh the the taxable account is also

accessible um as emergency or something like that. But yeah, that's the cash.

It's money market uh 44,000. It's all

emergency and and kind of flash funds.

So I I don't break them by $1,000 or 3

to 6 months. It's just based there.

We're not touching the account.

>> How much from the lifestyle that you guys live? How much do you spend a month on your life including mortgage and everything? How much do you think it is?

>> Food, bills, all very well. Uh it's

about $67,000 a month.

>> Okay. And do you guys do you all have kids?

>> Three. Yes. Three. >> Three. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Well, so you have that 45 and that 17. So I would I would probably want a six month.

>> Not 17. 70.

>> Oh, 70. Oh, I'm so sorry. Okay.

>> So, 110 and 20 depends on the day.

>> Okay. I got you. I got you. Okay.

>> All right. So, um and you guys are consistently investing in retirement over 800,000 you said with equity in the home and retirement and everything else.

>> Yes. Yeah. We put about 20% in retirement. >> Okay. What kind Okay. How much do you want to spend on the car?

>> Well, it's it's about 30 $35,000.

>> Okay. What kind of car is that? used one

uh BMW F550i

sedan. We have two SUVs and I'm growing the desire for a fast sedan >> for a Yeah. What does your What does your wife think?

>> Well, she's not saying no. But then I

have this guilt inside of me. I keep everybody on the budget and now I need to splurge for myself. So, uh that's that's another kind of um factor in the

decision making. Uh I I feel very bad that I keep being on a budget all of us and now suddenly I'll splurge on something that I don't >> we call it a midlife crisis but we all have them so that's okay. >> Probably here's what I would like the money side of it. Here's what I would like to to you to consider on the relationship side of it. What if you took your wife How old are your kids by the way?

>> Uh almost eight, six and four.

>> Okay. So, what if you took your wife out

and y'all spent a half day together that you you planned

and y'all dreamed about, hey, we almost have a million dollars net worth. We have three amazing kids. Our marriage is good.

Like, what do we want our house to look like? What are are some dreams that we have? and give her an opportunity to put some things on the table that she might want, might dream about, things that she would love to see and experience.

And then y'all come up with some ways to fund the everybody's vision. You get

what I'm saying?

>> I do. And we kind of have a quarterly business dates where we we talk about that. We go to a nice restaurant and kind of I give a report. >> Oh, good. >> What changed? Here we are. Where are we doing? What we going to do next? What's your take? What should we focus and focus? >> So, Chris, is there anything? >> No. >> But that's a business report. I want you to do a dreaming report.

>> Uhhuh. Okay. >> Yeah. Is there anything in the future that you guys are you wanting to upgrade the house?

Any renovations? Anyones trip? Yeah. Is there is there anything looming at all that this money >> could be used for?

Or are you guys kind of in a holding pattern right now? You're like, we're kind of good. We're just invested in retirement and kids college. The kids are little and we're just stacking cash because we we have margin.

I mean, nothing nothing depends on those money. Like, we bought we go to Europe every year.

$6,000 on tickets and and we can afford it without going to savings.

>> You can just cash flow it. Sure. >> So, yeah, this doesn't depend on that kind of So, we we have the plan for that. We've done it already.

>> Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, if I'm you, I'm looking at these numbers and I'm thinking, okay, that's 70,000 that's in that one account. 35 of it is emergency fund.

35 would be car. So I'm basically that that account to me is non-existent anymore because I'm not even going to think about the emergency fund. I'm not calculating that. It's just going to be over here in case of an emergency.

Which means we have 45,000 in the other account if something comes up um that again we're not going to touch the emergency fund for. But if you needed, you know, a big purchase, that's that's how I would >> that's where I would go would be that $45,000 fund.

so. There's nothing there's no big red flag right now for me.

>> No, I mean I think you guys are doing great. I think as long as you're consistently investing, you're living below your means, you have the cash for it, um with, you know, an extra $75,000

cushion including the emergency fund after the purchase of this car. I would be okay with it. The only and and financially of course I >> your wife >> I yeah I I want you

and again I my bias is people only call

me when things aren't going well in their marriages. Right? So I don't want to put I don't want to put my bias on you. Okay? >> But I do want you to ask yourself the question and it it might be you taking yourself out for a half day and doing some journaling, some writing out, some dreaming on your own. But do you want to

get this car cuz you love like you said you love you're a car enthusiast. You got a gang of guys you want to drive around with. You just want to go cruising in Houston. That's where I grew up. There's I mean there's hundreds of miles of highways to drive. If like is that what I want to do or >> do I have an 8-year-old, a six-year-old, a four-year-old? I've got a routine and I'm just finding myself getting bored.

>> More more the motivation of the purchase >> because you're going to if that's the case, you're going to spend 35,000 bucks. you're going to be bored on this one and then you're immediately going to start looking for the next one and then the next one, right? >> And so I I would rather you deal with the am I create have I am I co-creating a life with my wife where there's excitement and aliveness and eroticism

and fun and responsibility? Are we doing that stuff together >> or am I trying to escape? >> Or am I trying to escape? And this becomes a really, really expensive, you know, like uh social media app. Just a way to numb out the fact that I kind of starting to feel kind of bored.

>> I see. >> You get what I'm saying? >> Very good advice. Very well. Yes.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, from the financial side, Chris, I think you guys have enough margin. I think you're fine. If $35 left today, I think you $35,000 left today. I think you I think you guys would be fine. I really do. But John's insight is

probably what I would put some of the focus on. So even saying no to this purchase might be a better decision for you, just for you. Um, but if you're comfortable with the answers that you get when you when you ask yourself those questions, then >> get that car and cruise the streets, baby. >> Green light.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Dr.

John Deloney and you can give us a call at88255225.

Okay, we're heading to Cleveland, Ohio to talk to Elizabeth. Hi Elizabeth.

Hello. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help today? >> Well, I'm looking for guidance on how to wisely handle my elderly mother's finances without enabling a lifetime pattern of debt.

>> Oo, this is a tough one.

>> So, what's the current situation? Yeah.

>> Yeah. My mother is 83. She's single and

lives alone in a rural community in another state. Her only income is social

security of about $1,400 a month. And

she has no savings.

>> For decades, she cycled between being rescued financially and accumulating $40,000 in debt. And it seems as though

that she has a spending addiction and she makes desperate financial decisions and never followed a budget. So, right

now she owns her home outright with low property taxes, less than $1,000 a year,

and the house is set up for aging in place. Our hope is that she can live there and live out her years there. Um, it's far cheaper than renting, and she also has an older reliable car. So, the

situation now is she's currently in debt

of $40,000. Again, it's 32,000 in a

heliloc and 8,000 in credit card debt.

Then she took out various life insurance policies to cover her debt because those television ads during the day geared towards her demographic predatory. Yep.

>> Pardon? >> They're predatory. Yeah. They pray on >> It's awful. >> Exactly. people in her situation lonely, by themselves, isolated, and they scare them to death, and then they sell them a solution to their fear.

>> Right? So, now she's paying $40,000 or

now she's got um $40,000 in debt, paying

interest, making minimum payments, and paying for those life insurance policies.

>> Okay, hold on. Hold on. I want to I want to cut to like the reality.

>> Yes. >> Has she come to you and said, "I have a problem. Will you help?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Awesome. >> So, two So, two weeks ago, she came to me and asked if I could give her $500 to help with some expenses, and I said no.

>> Okay. >> She then made arrangements to make some late payments to creditors, and we took

um we think that she's going to be in dire straits in about a month. So, my

husband and I have an idea that we're considering paying off her debt, taking control of her social security income.

uh putting her on a strict budget, trimming her expenses, getting as much assistance as possible, paying her bills directly, and giving her a small weekly allowance, but currently her expenses are more than her social security. So, she might not get an allowance. We would like to inherit the house. that's in a lake community, but the big concern is pre um how do we prevent her from opening new credit, doing a reverse mortgage, or creating another mess instead of her living within her means with food and shelter?

taking over her finances wise, or is there a better way to address the issue?

I mean, if if she would agree to that

and also agree to signing over um

financial control to you guys, make you like financial power of attorney >> and also freeze her credit.

>> Say freezing her credit >> so she can't take out any loans and no one can take out loans against like you know you know what I mean if if she agre and you had the code right you had to log in to unfreeze her credit.

>> I mean that sounds like a good solution.

I I don't think it's a good solution to

um I don't like the word allowance because I think she's going to bulk at that. >> Okay. >> And because because then she's going to feel like suddenly she's your she's your middle school child.

>> And that's a hard psychological shift for somebody.

>> But if you and also we we want her to have a good quality of life, right? Like I want her to have some money to go do some stuff and whatever. But there is like you said there's a financial reality. So if she agreed to all that, I

could see that being a great solution.

>> Yeah. I mean, I may be Debbie Downer in it in the sense that like when you know, an 83year-old, I don't know how much change is going to occur in her to figure out. >> Yeah. There will be no Yeah, that's a great There'll be no like psychological awakening here.

>> Agree. There's no learning.

>> So, it's more just keeping honestly, it's more just keeping peace with her in her latter part of her life, right? um keeping the lights on and helping her stay afloat. I mean, it's is basically what you guys are doing. You're helping her survive.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> But I'll also say if I I think this again, this is my personal take that the main driver underneath a lot of this pathology and aging populations is loneliness.

And so if there was some sort of you have to get involved, you have to do some things with the local community groups, you have to do some stuff because that has a way of >> Yeah. that that will keep her alive longer. That will give her more reason to wake up every day and and all you get what I'm saying? >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Do you have siblings, Elizabeth?

>> No, I'm an only child. >> Okay. Okay. and in the sandwich generation of taking care of our own family and >> Yeah. >> Yes. And are you guys in a financial spot to do this?

>> Um yeah, I think so for for that amount,

you know, if as a gift, if we were to cover roughly 40,000, we wouldn't want to do it again.

>> Totally. But you guys have the cash. Like you wouldn't be putting yourselves in a bad position in order to do that.

>> Well, we No. Um, my husband recently retired, so he's got access to um, retirement money. And how much net worth of >> We have a net worth of 2 million.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And what's he say? What does your husband say about all of it?

>> Um, he would like to help out.

>> A, >> sweet. >> That's cool. Is there a possibility, and there's going to be tax implications in this, so sitting down with a good tax pro or tax attorney would be helpful here. Um, is there a possibility that y'all buy the house >> and put it in your name? That way, nobody else can take a lean out on it.

Nobody, she can't take out another heliloc somehow or or you know what I'm saying? >> We considered that. We also have a a daughter in high school and we're about to start funding college >> and we don't want to have more assets.

>> Not until Yeah. Until that's turned over. Yeah, that makes sense. So, yes. I mean, if she is if she's willing to do all of that, Elizabeth, I think that that's I at this point I think that's

smart. I mean, I think you know, you taking over and her I mean, her because it's her literally reaching out to you and saying, "I can't do this anymore because I obviously cannot be trusted." >> Yeah. >> To make smart decisions and I need someone to step in and she's 83. How's her health?

>> Yeah. >> Is her health um is she in good health?

>> Um she she's okay. She has diabetes, so

that's chronic, but other than that, and it's controlled. Okay. >> Um, I'm guessing she'll be with us for at least 10 plus years.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. And who knows? I I I if she agrees to all of your things, which I would I would just given my experience, put that as a big maybe.

>> Yeah. >> If she does, you have to steal yourself for she will say mean things to you.

She'll call you crying. She'll be upset with you. Very similar to how a teenager

would be with some pretty significant boundaries. And you and your husband are going to have to know part of this is not just going to be holding the line financially, but we're going to have to have the emotional fortitude to deal with a mom that suddenly turns on us even though we're trying to help. Cuz I think that will come with this territory here.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers.

Built on Ramsay principles we use on the

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If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. And this is more than just our budgeting app. It is now the plan that is built right in. So you can track your progress.

You can get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money and work the plan even faster. So, it's like having us walk with you every single day through your money journey. So, start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Alex in Idaho.

>> Alex, are you there?

>> Yeah. Hey, can you hear me? >> Yeah. Welcome to the show. Good. Good.

Uh, so my question is,

I know Dave teaches to put 15% of your

income into retirement.

Is there ever an appropriate time to stop making those contributions

before retirement?

>> Um, possibly. I mean, investing is is

really part of the whole financial picture that you're looking at for your future and different, you know, generations beyond. How much do you have right now in retirement?

>> I have 850,000 in my retirement. I'm 50 years old. I

plan to work for at least the next 10 years. I th this last year my I put in

20 I did $20,000 in contributions

um and my 401k grew by 100,000.

>> Mhm. >> And so I just when I put my figures into

an investment calculator, it says in the next 10 years with no additional contributions, I'll be at $2.3 million.

And with $20,000 in contributions in 10

years, I'd be at $2.6 million.

So would it be I mean it's a $300,000

difference, but should I start taking more elaborate vacations now rather than

wait? >> How much do you make higher?

>> My wife and my combined income is about

215,000.

215. Okay. Yeah. And so, yeah, you put

20,000 in as your 15%.

>> Yeah. Well, and that's just that's just my side of it. She's she's got a pinchion plan she puts into >> that she's going to be okay.

Well, for me, I think there is it's more than just the numbers to me. Part of it is the numbers and then part of it too is

looking at your whole financial picture and is it balanced? Meaning, we always want to be giving. We always want to be saving. And we want to be spending and enjoy. So, my question to you, is that $20,000 that big of a swing for you guys lifestyle-wise?

>> Well, I'm I'm not sure. Um, it's uh I

mean, I feel like we've got a pretty good lifestyle right now. We go on

vacation and we have fun and and things,

but um again, yeah, $20,000 we could do a

lot more fun stuff.

>> Sure. >> Well, and I guess I would ask you to

expand your time horizon

because you're talking about compound growth over a decade, but imagine yourself at 80 if you live for what, three more decades.

that gap is going to be significantly bigger.

>> Do you get what I'm saying?

>> I do. Yeah. >> And so it again I don't have a calculator in front of me, but you you you say like if I if I go out 10 years, one is 2.3 and one is 2.6.

Um if you go out another 10 years, is it going to be 2.6 or is it going to be four and then it's going to be 6 million? Right? it it begins to compound pretty significantly the longer you go out,

>> right? >> And so, and I'm kind of with Rachel, I

don't get the depth of your question because if you're making 250k a year,

y'all are bringing home a chunk of change. And so, $1,800 a month into

retirement doesn't seem like that will impact your monthly anything at all.

>> Is your house paid off, Alex?

It is. >> It is. Okay. Good for you guys. I mean, listen, you're you're an adult. I think you guys can run the numbers and decide for yourself which one. I just part of the baby steps and what continues on.

Like Winston and I, we have we have enough. We're fine. If we stopped, well, we're not stopping. It is still this continual pattern for us because there is something about the giving, the saving, the spending, all of it that creates something in all of us. It does something for us. And um yeah, I don't

know. I I and it's 800,000 which I get

in seven years it doubles. You know, I'm I know all of that, but there is something about just having some cushion there. And I'm not a big scarcity mentality person, but again, it's not like you have 8 million and we're like, "Oh, yeah, you're fine." There's I don't know. There's still life to be lived.

And you guys, I just don't want you to ever touch that principle to be able to live off the interest. And so, for me, I would continue investing, but you guys you guys can decide. All right, let's go to Darien in Colorado Springs. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. How you doing? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Um, so we have uh two houses. One I purchased in 2020, one we purchased in 2023 when we got married. Um, we've been renting out the townhouse that we purchased in 23. Um, and it's we bought it and it was on the very like high end of our budget and we, you know, used rental income come to qualify.

Um, but we are now trying to sell it. And when we did have it rented out, we rented it for 2,000 and um, with the HOA and everything, we were losing like 850 a month. >> Oh my gosh.

>> No, it was not. Um, so now we're trying to sell it and we bought it for 350. We still owe 322. Um and comps in the area

show we should be able to sell it, you know, around 325, which is not great because after fees and like title fees and everything in realtors, um our realtor said that we'd probably end up bringing like 30,000 to the table to sell this house, which is wild.

>> Oh. >> Um we looked at like a cash offer for it

and it's um what 2.85. So we'd be 40

under 40,000 under that way. Um,

so I have it listed again um trying to rent it, but um it doesn't have air conditioning and um you know >> why doesn't it have air conditioning?

>> Good question. Every other house in this townhouse complex has air conditioning except for ours. So >> cuz you're Colorado Springs, I guess.

And it's just >> Yes. >> Yeah. But it's been hot there the last few summers.

>> It has. So, I'm not sure how we uh got got away with this or purchased it with it. Um you know, without it. Definitely oversight. But we were newly married and excited to buy a house. So, we did and we went overboard. So,

>> So, what's your question? >> We've we've also looked at I guess uh um

you know, doing like a going into foreclosure, doing a lean in foreclosure. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't do that. >> Yeah. No. >> Yeah. So, this is >> trash whole financial picture. Yeah. No, I wouldn't I mean, I hate to say it, but

>> it's almost like getting a $30,000 loan and calling it stupid tax, which is a lot, but you know, when you make I mean, my my hope would be that you could s that you could sell it. Are you guys I guess you have the two mortgages. How much is the the mortgage?

>> The mortgage on that one is 2600.

>> And are y'all able to cash flow that right now with your current income?

not well because we also have that second mortgage and we have um somebody living in our current house so they're paying a little bit but we're also kind of trying to bless them so we're not charging them what we should be for this >> Wait do you have two Wait do you have a renter in the property right now?

>> Um no in our other house that we are currently living in in our primary the one that I bought in 2020. >> You have a renter in that with you guys?

>> We have Yeah, we have friends that are living with us that are um renting.

Okay.

>> That's a messy, complex situation, brother.

>> Could you sell that your current residence and go back and move into your town home for a season >> with no air conditioning?

>> We I mean, we could. Um, we were paying a little less at the the fourbedroom, which is wild. Um, so the townhouse has 1,400 ft². The uh the other one has like

2,200 ft. So, it is quite a bit bigger.

>> I I get that renovations on it and stuff. I guess hear me say at some point you're going to have to make some sacrifices. >> Yeah. I mean I I'd put on the market and I would try and I would sell it and then if you guys have a $30,000 crap mistake, you know, loan out there that you're like, that is just that was our stupid tax.

That's better than sitting there and paying $2,600 every single month for the foreseeable future, right? So, um, yep. I mean, I would sell it ASAP ASAP.

foreclosure route.

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over on the debtree stage. We have Brandon and Taran from Fresno, California. Welcome you guys.

>> Thank you so much. >> Absolutely. Well, congratulations >> for being debtree. How much debt did you guys pay off? >> Uh $291,000.

>> Oh my gosh. And what was what did that consist of? >> Our house. >> Yes. Another >> another house payoff. Oh my gosh. Okay.

How long did it take you? >> Uh about four years and three months.

>> Four years. And making what kind of income during that time? >> From 100 to 200.

>> Wa. What was the jump? >> Uh side jobs got busier.

>> Sounds like it. I mean 100 grand in side jobs. Not bad. What do you guys do?

>> Doggy daycare. Yeah, that was one of the side >> Yeah. So >> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, tell us what do you guys do for a living and then what were some of the side? >> I'm in I'm in medical appeals. Okay.

>> So, she works from home. I do apartment maintenance. >> Yeah. >> And then for side work, I carry on with that. So, if someone has like a dishwasher that needs work or plumbing, electrical, whatever.

>> I just go there, do stuff, and then they tell other people, and they just keep talking and telling other people.

>> Awesome. Yes. The references are real, right? When people talk about it, >> the references are real. That's like a t-shirt. >> I think so. Absolutely.

>> Like when they were like, "Listen, Brandon's the best." And everyone's like, "Well, let me let me use Brandon."

>> You do medical appeals like on behalf of patients. >> Yeah. I I don't make the decisions. I just build cases. So, >> can On behalf of humanity, can I say thank you for fighting the good fight?

>> A lot. You see a lot of stuff. That's for sure. >> I bet. Okay. So, what happened four years ago that you guys thought we want to pay off almost $300,000 and pay off our house? Well, it started in 2019 when

we were gifted the FPU class.

>> Yeah. >> And uh so we paid off all of our consumer debt. It was 47K. Then it was the credit card for the wedding. It was student loans and it was her car. So after that, then we had the funds to go towards saving for a emergency fund, saving for a house, and which we only put nine nine grand down, but we knew that the ability that we had was so much greater. So we just started smacking the house. >> Oh my gosh. That's amazing, you guys.

Okay, so what was that journey like for four years, >> your focus on it? It was fun.

>> It was honestly a lot of fun. We learned a lot about ourselves and we got it as a wedding gift actually, FPU. And we kind of >> honestly at first we kind of rolled our eyes. We're like, "Yeah, we already kind of know about money a little bit or whatever." And so we're like, "Well, she got it for us.

Let's go to the class." And we left and we're like, "I don't know crap." And it just it changed our lives and we learned a lot about ourselves and each other and >> it it definitely changed our lives for the best and it made our marriage even stronger. >> Was that year one of marriage in 2019 >> when you guys Okay. So, oh man, you guys, that's amazing. Starting off your marriage, changing the way you view money, >> pay off all the consumer debt, you do the emergency fund, all of it, and then you look up, you're like, "All right, now it's time to tackle the house." And you did it in four years.

So, you guys seem very organized. Did you map out and see, okay, how long is it going to take us?

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> He's the nerd. He had the spreadsheet and I was like, >> so we use every dollar.

>> Um, but I also did Excel and I would do all kinds of formulas showing like what we originally had for interest, PMI, all of that. It was like 800 and something a month that we were just losing on the house. I'm like, "All right, well, every month when I plug in what the current balance is, it shows lower amounts." And so I'm like, "Oh, like we're saving this much from when we started." And the number just got smaller and smaller each month. And then we're like, "Let's just keep going.

Just knock it out, then we'll move on from there." >> Yes.

>> Okay, that's a lot of side hustles. That means for the last four years, you've been busy. >> So I only did the the after hours um

work for people. She also did Rover and then a ton of people word of mouth as well. >> Yeah. Yeah. The dog sitting is what you were saying, right? >> So, you're like fighting insurance companies and petting dogs.

>> Yeah, >> pretty much. >> You're like a You married a saint, homie. That's awesome. >> I did. I did. >> Was it And was it a pretty good side hustle? We do hear people doing this and I feel like it's like it pays well.

>> It started off as obviously just paying off debt and we paid off our debt and I'm like, I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to stop doing this. It's just second nature to me at this point. And so, She was $600 for over.

>> Yeah. >> And it just went up up up.

>> Kept going crazy. >> Man, you guys are awesome.

>> Well done. Did you guys have people that were cheering you on or or on the other end making fun of you, what you guys are doing with all your working extra and everything? Were people like, "Y'all are crazy." >> Kind of both. Kind of both.

I think the amount of dogs we would have during holidays, they're like, "Y'all are psycho." It's like, "Yeah, we kind of are, but it's worth it." But our families were super supportive. We had friends that were super supportive. like they'd bring it up in conversations like, "Okay, so where are you?" And it's like, "Oh god, I don't even know.

>> Okay. Sometimes people do their debtree scream and they actually hit the last payment a few months ago.

>> Have y'all had it where you both got

your direct deposits in your accounts and you have no house payment?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Tell everybody what that feels like. Um, well, you had the problem of debt before, but your new problem is now you have to think, what do I do with this money >> or like what savings are we going to put in?

>> Thing for most people listening to this, like I have all this money. What do I do with it? Right. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Oh man. What are your next goals? Have you guys kind of dreamed about the future and been like, here's what we >> Yeah.

Well, uh, so we're we're in California now and now that we have a paid off house, we're saving. We actually want to move to Tennessee.

>> Come on, dude. >> That's a beautiful part of the country. >> And with my background, we want to build a big barno on some land. So >> So fun >> at the speed of cash. >> That's a that's a fun dream though. Good for you guys. >> What's this house worth that you paid off? >> Uh right now like 420.

>> Awesome. >> Yeah. >> So great, you guys. So if there's someone listening and they think there

is no way I could pay off my house. I got a 30-year mortgage. It'll be in 30 years. It just is what it is. What would you tell them the secret to paying off your houses? >> Uh, if you're married, be a team and that will get you through and trust God.

There were so many times that like we're both very just like keep your head down and work and work work and then you just kind of look up and we're like, I don't understand where all this money came from, but God was good the entire time and he carried us through and we wouldn't have made it through without him. So, be a team and trust God.

>> Yeah. And be faithful and keep tithing.

>> God God has his rules and he doesn't stop. Don't stop believing in him.

>> Yes. continue it on. Oh, I love it, you guys. Okay, are y'all going to chill on the side hustles a little bit now that you have a paid off house? >> I mean, >> we don't know what that means for just like >> he's going to buy some property in Crossfield, dude. >> I mean, we just went to Costa Rica. We got back two weeks ago. We have a little tan. So, you guys Yeah, we'll slow down a little. She's got a baby going working on the way. So, >> congratulations, first one.

>> Okay. Oh, you guys, what a beautiful.

You're going to bring this kid into the world >> with no financial stress.

>> That's amazing. That's the goal. >> I told him I think the biggest gift is that we're bringing her home to a paid off house. And that's like crazy.

>> Gets emotional just thinking about it.

>> I I'll I'll go one deeper. You're bringing her to a house where two parents love each other and trust each other and have accomplished hard things together. >> Yeah. >> And the greatest gift we can give our kids is to love our spouse well.

>> And like a byproduct of that is y'all paid off your house. Mhm. >> But dude, this kid won the lottery. And not not because of the money y'all make, but because they've got two hardworking parents that love each other and know how to do hard stuff. That's That's incredible. >> It's wild. It's so wild. It's so cool, man. >> So beautiful. Is it different than how you guys grew up?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very. It was growing up for me, I would say it was there were financial problems. I I didn't know about them as a kid, but >> I felt it like you felt the tension and they to say, you know, don't worry about it. But then like growing up and now kind of helping my parents in those ways, I'm like, >> "Oh man." So it's it's crazy. And that's the beautiful part of the the changing your family tree aspect of this, right?

Which I feel like is >> such a bigger why in all of this money stuff that we talk about. You know, yes, we want peace in the present and not having all these payments gives you that. >> Yeah. >> But then there's something even greater of what you continue on in your family.

So you guys, congratulations.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely incredible. Right. >> Let's let it rip. Oh, we got Brandon and Taran from Fresno, California. They paid off $291,000, which was the house in four years, making a h1 to200 grand a year. All

right. >> And mostly side hustles. So awesome.

>> And lots of dogs. Lots lots of animals.

Lots of dogs. >> All right, you guys count it down. Let's hear a big debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1.

>> So great. That's amazing.

The h the house payoff stuff like that is that's just wild. Wild.

>> Anytime somebody a young couple like this in a place like California goes through hell for 4 years to pay off their house, they're like that kid in math class in middle school when you're like, "Nobody can get an A on this." And that kid's like, "I'm going to study so hard I'll get an A." >> They show everybody that yes, you can.

>> Amazing. Congratulations. You guys are proud of you, Brandon and Taran from Fresno. Well done.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is.

I'm gonna save money or I'm gonna get my financial act together. But without a plan, you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win.

And our Every Dollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes, Every Dollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now. And every day, the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket helping you stay on track all year long.

So don't just wish your money works out.

Download the Every Dollar Budget app and get started right now for free.

Our scripture of the day comes from Psalms 145:16-1 17. You open your hands,

you satisfy the desire of every living thing. The Lord is righteous in all his ways and kind in his works. Frank Zappa

said, "Your mind is like a parachute. If it isn't open, it doesn't work." >> Yes, that's good. Well done. Open the

mind, learn, >> and jump out of a plane. >> And jump out with a parachute. Uh, all right. Let's go to Newark, New Jersey, and we have Elizabeth on the line. Hi, Elizabeth.

>> Hi. >> Hello. Hello. Welcome to the show. How can we help today?

>> So, I guess I kind of have two questions for you guys. One question would be how

do I get over anger and resentment

towards my husband that has just kind of built up and now it's just coming to a head because he's had life changes.

>> Mhm. >> And then the second question is how do I

express to him I'm scared he is going to

put us in debt without him getting

defensive?

Oh, you're asking impossible questions.

>> That's a marriage therapist to take the lead. >> Okay. So, tell me why tell me why you're angry.

>> Well, I since since I've got pregnant um

back in 2016,

my husband and I only knew each other for about six months. We got pregnant and we both just decided, you know,

we're going to do this thing. I became a stay-at-home mom. He was just kind of

doing his own thing. He's a handyman, works construction. He was picking up jobs here and there, but he needed insurance. And I had a child and put the

child on my insurance. So then once he found like a big boy job, like a corporate job, a good job, we went on

his insurance and I completely like everything went from me to his

responsibility. So, he got his together, so to speak. Um,

and now he left that job and is kind of

doing our side um his side hustle, which

is technically our side hustle because I

have no job still eight years later. Um,

but I feel like he's going backwards

because he finally has freedom again, if

that makes sense. And the resentment is just coming from him picking and choosing when he wanted to help me at home for a stay-at-home mom. For instance, like the house is like I' I've

been burnt out, so the house isn't up to par. Like the laundry is not done, the dishes aren't done, like nothing is getting done in the house cuz I've I'm I'm tired. They said, "Is everything okay?" Instead of just helping and you

know doing it, he's like, "What's going on?" >> Yeah. I mean, if I'm fully honest with you, y'all y'all have deeper issues than I can handle and address on this call.

>> Okay. >> The the and and here's why. Um, y'all

have found yourself self at a place in your marriage where it is you verse him

and he is standing there with his hands out either a choosing to not help you in any way, shape, form or fashion or he doesn't know how to love you in a way that you can feel loved.

>> Yeah. >> And >> and I mean Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I I know. But but hold on. But that gap

between the two of you cuz here here's what I would tell you. If you have been very clear with him and and again what I'm telling you sucks. It's the worst because it sounds like I'm giving you another thing to do. I get that.

But often I hear I sit with men all over the country who are like I'm trying to love well and I don't I everything I do is wrong and I don't know what to do next. And to to their like I don't

credit them. This is a fault. but they just stopped doing anything.

>> And what I would challenge you to do is to give him a path. Here's what a way here's ways you can love me right now.

>> Okay? >> And that sounds ridiculous. I shouldn't have to tell him. He should just know you're all those things can be true, but the reality is where you find yourself right now is he doesn't.

>> Mhm. And if you're not doing everything

you can on a day in and dayout basis to see each other, to know each other, to celebrate each other, then everything is

a battlefield.

>> Yeah. And that's where we are.

>> Okay. So, somebody has to, you've heard me say this on the show before, somebody has to turn the lights off. I mean, turn the lights on, turn the music off, this this dance y'all are doing, and somebody has to say, "We're married.

We're not in a good place right now. I still want to be married to you, but we got to rebuild this marriage from the floor up. Are you in? And if he says yes, then you have to be willing to say, "Okay, here's what that would look like right now." And he has to say, "Here's what that would look like right now." And you'll both have to get after it.

>> And so, but you got to go you got to go see a professional at this point in your in your marriage because because the resentment is simmering. It's it's too hot. >> Yeah. Elizabeth, I hope that helps. And again, I hate that we can't, you know, unfold and have a solution right now, but honestly, sitting down with someone, a third party, and it's going to be a lot of work for you guys, but it's possible. >> All right, let's go to Toby in Chicago.

Hi, Toby. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. How are we? >> Hi. Doing great. How can we help?

>> Uh, yes. I am getting ready to get a

settlement for roughly three and a half million dollars for my employer at work.

>> Oh, and a half million. What happened?

Uh well, my uh my boss uh pretty much

threatened to uh whoop my butt and fire me. And then they uh retaliated against

me and kept me from getting a promotional job by hiring people who weren't. You have to have you have to have a certain license to to have that job. And they kept hiring people that didn't have that qualification.

>> So you sued them in civil court and you won $2.5 million.

Well, I went through the EEOC and then the EEOC gave me a declaration to sue and then I hired an attorney and we settled. >> Okay. Where are you at financially right now, Toby? Do you have consumer debt?

>> Uh what uh the only debt I have is my

mortgage and that's 108,000.

>> 108,000. All right.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I know how to spend 108,000 of the 2.5. So, it gets you down to 2.4. Um

Okay. Three 3.5 3.5 million

>> 3.5 Oh my goodness. Okay.

>> Well, when it comes to Yeah. I mean, a

large chunk of money, whether it's inheritance, a settlement, anything like that, we always say to remember the three buckets of money, and this is really important because it can e you can easily do one or two of these, but all three are really crucial. And that's to give some, to save some, and to spend

some. And honestly on the spend side, I

would hold off any major purchase.

>> No major purchases, no cars, no jet skis, no nothing for like six or nine months. >> Yeah, I would say for probably 6 months just for you guys to emotionally take all this in and just kind of know where you're at. If you can practice not

significantly changing your lifestyle like in a crazy way, uh, you know, you can go on a great vacation and maybe, you know, upgrade the cars and all of it, but this is this is almost like lottery type money that people win. You know, they'll win like a, you know, a Powerball here or there, whatever it is, and they end up going broke, right? Or, you know, you talk to professional athletes and they get a signing bonus and then three years later they're broke because they they end up spending all of it. So Toby, the the biggest thing is going to be to be really disciplined and to have a detailed plan.

And I would sit down with a smart vest pro and map out for you guys, hey, what could a future look like for us where we can enjoy some of this? Absolutely.

we put this long term that can change us, our kids, our family tree completely? Because how how old are you guys?

Um, I am 33 years old and my my

girlfriend, um, she is 28.

>> All right, we got a girl in the picture.

>> Both of us are both of us are

pretty much debtree. Um, >> okay. Is she the Is she the one?

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, we'll be uh she uh she just finished We had an agreement that we were going to get married after she finished her college. Um, and she just finished her master's degree.

>> Okay. >> Right. So, your first $3,000 is buying a ring. Or if you're Rachel, your first $50,000 is buying a ring.

>> Not 50. I was going to say at least five, John, of the three point something. >> Well, and I already have I already have a ring bought, but I was that that was one of the first things I thought was getting something a little bit nicer. >> I love that.

Yes, Toby. Absolutely. And you know what? You guys need to sit down sit down and have some great premarital counseling because you guys are walking into wealth.

I mean, in this whole >> And it 100% will change your relationship. >> Yes. and you don't know how to handle it all right now because you haven't done it before. So remember, discipline practice.

Uh well, that's it for the show.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 232. There's No Financial Progress Without A Plan | August 11, 2025


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[Music] From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by my friend Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls at88255225.

you call us up. We'll do our best to give you the right next step for your life and your money. Sarah is going to kick us off in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Sarah? How can we help today?

>> Um, so my question is, uh, how do I tell

my mother-in-law or my husband that my mother-in-law is holding us back financially? Um, she's 60 years old. She

doesn't work. We pretty much pay for everything, her rent. Um, we my husband

has his her car in his name, but she pays like the car note and she's

constantly asking for money. Like at one point she was asking me for money and telling me not to tell my husband.

>> Yikes. >> Um, there's been >> Well, this is a pattern. This has been happening for a long time.

>> Yes. And he's in the past, maybe about 10 years ago, she actually lost her apartment. like stopped paying rent, lost it, and then had to move in with a friend. And so he's been taking care of her. >> Is she unwell? Is she sick?

>> She's not sick. She does collect like a check from the government. I think it's only $1,000. >> Disability. >> Uh yeah, disability.

>> What do you know what that was for?

What's the nature of that?

>> I don't know. >> Okay. But nothing that you're seeing as a real issue to her working? No, because I I've seen her volunteer her time at like homeless shelters or like thrift stores and she'll tell me, "Oh, I volunteered my time and they gave me a discount on X, Y, and Z." >> She's on the verge of being in a homeless shelter. She needs to get to work. >> Is she divorced or did her husband pass away? What's the story there?

>> Um, she divorced maybe when my husband was like not even one years old. She's been on her own >> with two kids for a really long time.

So, your estimation of her, I just want to make sure that George and I understand your estimation of her. She is able-bodied, able to work. Uh, she's

all the lights on, are on upstairs, so she could, you know, go interact and and have a job. And are you just feeling like she's kind of just uh coasting or a little little lazy? Is that how you're feeling? >> I think she's just Yeah. And she's really That's how I feel. Exactly. She's really lazy. Um, right now I have a newborn and I have her in daycare and

they want me to switch and employ her for and give her the $1,000 instead of the daycare. But I feel like if I do that, >> she's going to just use the $1,000 for whatever she wants instead of paying her rent. >> Ah, okay. Would she do a good job taking care of the baby? Do you feel like she would? >> No, I don't feel like she would.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> understood. >> So, I just >> there's some triangulation happening here. This should be between you and your husband and then it should be between your husband and his mother.

>> And right now she's trying to circumvent him to go to you to try to guilt you into it. Have you talked to your husband about this? Where is he at? Is he just like, "Well, we need to take care of her and she's my mom." >> Exactly. That's how he feels. And I've even told him like, "Hey, you know, I

would like give it an I would give her

the opportunity to watch um my daughter if I could just pay use the $1,000 and

pay it straight to her rent instead." >> But you said you didn't even trust her to watch the baby. I feel like that's a moot point at this point.

>> That's true. Yeah.

>> So, we got to take that off the table.

Um here's the thing.

Um, the only reason you're considering letting this woman watch your your child, even though you don't think that she's really would be do a good job, is because you're thinking of ways that maybe she could start paying her rent.

None of that's your job.

>> She's grown. Like you said, she's grown.

She's able-bodied. She's, you know, the lights are on. There's no reason in your mind, and I trust that you're telling us the truth, that she can't go out and make some money and have an apartment and, you know, do that thing. Now, at the very least, can I ask you this? Let's pretend you were able to get her out into an apartment. Is um and and it

caused you to kind of say, "Hey, let's help you with first and last month's rent just to get you out." Would you be willing to do something like that or are you like, "Hey, I don't want to put any money into this woman whatsoever. I just want her out of the house." >> I don't want to put any money into her at all. >> Okay. Then that's the conversation you have to have with your husband. Have you talked about it? And if so, what did it what did it how did it go?

uh it doesn't go really well. It's usually like Jill will just consider it and then that's the end of the conversation.

Um I have told him that like I do consider it but it's off the table because she owes me money. She borrow money from me and I don't think she's very good with money and so I just I don't want I don't feel comfortable giving her $1,000 a month and knowing that she could be homeless or asking me

for more money. What do you guys take home every month?

>> So, I make a h 100,000. So, a little

over 100,000. So, my checks are usually like $3,000. I don't give to my 401k right now. >> Why is your check so low? >> You mean like every two weeks?

>> Every two weeks. >> Oh, okay. Loving that. >> You scared us. I was like, you're getting robbed here. >> For Yeah. 6,000 for me and it's like around >> What about your husband?

>> 7,000. >> Okay. For him. Do you guys combine your finances or do you kind of keep it separate and you know you split the bills?

>> We keep it separate and mainly because she usually asks for a lot of money from him >> and so I just don't want to be a part of that. >> So I'm going to be honest with you. I think um that could be at the core of what's making this a very hard decision between you and your husband. Because if I am viewing my finances kind of separately, which means there's parts of my life that I view separate and that means there's certain parts of my life that I believe that I have the only vote on.

She's my mom." Do you see what I'm saying? Because there's that separation there. I think that's where he's finding validation to be able to say, "No, it's okay. I'm going to keep her here." Cuz he's probably viewing it as a I'm keeping it here.

>> I'm fine to spend some money on her. It doesn't bother me. But if you guys can get Does that make sense? Like George, are you >> Yeah.

I mean, because it's separated, he's gone, well, this is a thousand bucks of my money, so what's it matter to you? That's probably in the back of his mind. I don't know that he'd say that out loud, but truthfully, you're saying this is holding us back financially. >> It's not.

You make 13 grand a month take-home, you're doing great. It's the resentment that is breeding inside of you that should be the thing you're paying attention to going, I don't agree with this. We never agreed on this as a couple. We need to figure out an exit strategy here or a way for her to be independent cuz she could live till 90, which means 30 years of subsidizing her lifestyle.

That's the part you need to focus on. Not that, hey, this is holding us back financially, husband.

>> Yeah. And that's how I feel. I'm like, we are investing so much money into her.

She could live until she's 90 and then our kids will have to take care of us >> and it's your house.

>> So much. Exactly. >> The money side part part aside, that's there's a person that's in your house that you don't really want them to be there and they don't need to be there.

And if you're giving her a th000 a month, we can figure out a plan for her to go make a th000 a month with a part-time job. >> Yes, exactly. >> She's 60. She's not 86. And so there's

nothing wrong with her going to work if she's able-bodied. And you can help her with that. It doesn't need to be cruel. You don't need to throw her on the street. It's just, hey, what is something you could do that brings in $250 a week?

>> Exactly. >> Now we have a game plan here instead of just it being emotional. >> Yeah.

And you might have to bear this out a little bit longer until you're at that point in the conversation.

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[Music]

Christine is up next in Los Angeles, California. What's happening, Christine?

How can we help?

>> Hi there. Thank you so much. Um, I've

I'm my own worst enemy. I'm going to call myself out. I've choked a couple times um trying to keep up with the budgeting.

Um, I just I'm not tech technically savvy at all, but I've come a long way.

I've got the first four steps done, I

think. Um, but now I'm starting to

question myself again cuz last year I was ready to start the life insurance

and then I choked and didn't do it. And

then I'll start listening to the show again and I'm like, I need to get this done. And >> what's stopping you from getting life insurance? Because that's not even a baby step.

um because I'm putting money into other

other things, getting those savings done

and starting to build, you know, the the

emergency fund and everything. Um and we

have put our daughter through private school, so that's all done. Um I just

started a new job where I'm making more than I thought I would be making. So, I want to set that separately and I was going to put that in the Roth IRA,

but I'm like, I really think we need life insurance because we ain't getting any younger and we're in our mid50s. So, I'm kind of panicking.

>> I wonder if you're trying to do too much of this on your own cuz I hear the I heard the word we. So, you're married.

>> Yes, it is me.

>> Okay.

>> It is me doing this. Maybe that's part of it because it sound you sound tired like you sound like you know you were like I tried to do this and you know I'm my own worst enemy and I choked when it was time to do like I feel like the way you're talking about it is very like it's a >> clean house ladies >> I mean the actual process of like xander.com enter age birthday health submit get

quote >> I mean >> like it's not I think there's more to it so what happened after that >> okay I did that and I got the call but I was unsure what how much

see I wanted to get to some facts we could help you solve. So what is your concern about how much? What is your current income?

>> Um I don't know if I can answer that off the top of my head. >> Ballpark it. Is it 10,000 or 100,000

>> monthly? >> Every year. >> A year. Every year. that I don't know cuz I don't do that >> Christine. Not you working and putting your life into your work and not knowing what >> someone like hired you because you're smart and stuff. >> You got to know what you're >> and they probably said here's your offer letter with the salary, right?

What was the number on that piece of paper you signed? This is Who Wants to be a Millionaire? >> It's not salary. It's not salary.

>> Oh, are you sales? Is it commission?

>> Yes. >> Oh, is it all commission? >> Okay, I see it. >> At a winery. Yes. At a winery. And it's not full-time. It's part time.

>> Okay. So, on a month on a monthly basis, like what's a what's a kind of normal check for you? >> Monthly on a monthly basis, our total

income is probably close to 7,000.

>> But what's your what's your income of that? Because we want to know what percentage like how to multiply and figure out your insurance that you need.

>> Okay. Now, I feel unprepared. Um, I should know that. >> So, what you're going to need you're what you're going to need is about 10 to 12 times. That's what we're looking at.

>> Your annual income. >> Mhm. Not household, just yours personally. Cuz the point of life insurance is to replace your income should something happen to you.

>> Okay. So my annual income my >> So that's your that's your homework.

>> Okay. 10 to 12%.

>> 10 to 12 times. >> 10 to 12 times. So if you made $100,000

10 times, you'd have a million dollar coverage.

>> If it's $50,000, you need at least $500,000 in coverage on a term life policy. Ignore anything that says whole life or permanent life or universal life or index. I ignore all of that, >> okay? >> Stick to term life.

>> And the same thing for your husband, by the way, would be true if he's, you know, working outside the house, which it sounds like he is.

>> No. >> No. Elaborate.

>> Um, he we have a special needs adult son. >> Okay. >> 25, nonverbal, low functioning.

>> Okay. autism. So, he is now the primary

caregiver. >> Understood. >> In the home. >> Okay. So, then >> So, you're tell you're bringing home $7,000 a month working part-time at a winery on a commission job?

>> No, that's I wish. No, that's what I'm

like kind of estimating is our total income. >> How does he get money or is that some of that money for your child?

>> It is. So, it's that whole inhome support services because we get paid to

care for him. >> Okay? Which means your husband really needs life insurance because he's providing an invaluable service to your home. >> You need private inh home care full-time if something happened to him.

Translation, >> it's both of us, you know, technically it's both. >> Yes. But you're able to work outside the house. My point is, if something, god forbid, were to happen to your husband tomorrow, >> you would suddenly be like, "Oh my gosh, I need another body in this house. I need somebody to do the things that he was doing. So, make sure he also has a policy, you know, four or five times >> that, you know, what he's what his value is, if that makes sense. Okay?

>> And we can monetize it by the money that is being brought in for your son's care.

>> Okay? >> So, let's straighten out your financial situation. You guys are completely debtree and you have an emergency fund.

>> Yes. >> How much is in that emergency fund?

>> 18. >> Okay. Good. And now baby step four, we're investing 15% of our household income.

Are you guys doing that into retirement accounts right now?

>> No, that's where I'm stuck. >> Okay. So, you're going to do that regard. You're going to get term life insurance today and you're going to start prioritizing. So, there's no priority. The 401k doesn't take priority over life insurance because they're not in competition. >> Life insurance is going to happen today.

You apply for that. You'll pay monthly, quarterly, annually, however you want to do it. And then you're also going to put 15% of your future income into those retirement accounts, >> right? Okay. So, that's what I was trying to do is just take my commission

from this new job and all my cash tips

and that's what I'm saying. I'm working for my retirement fund. That's what I'm trying to do. >> Okay, that's that's a way to think a bit of it, but it's not necessarily it could do you a disservice because if that's not 15% of your income, you could be investing far less.

So, what you need to do is I'm going to challenge you to get very organized here because to do what George and I are telling you, you're going to have to really do some diligence and look back on your year and say, "Okay, what do I make a year?

or you could just do uh month by month whatever I earned? I'm going to calculate what 15% of that was before I paid taxes and I'm going to, you know, park that away in a Roth IRA." >> Okay? But 15% is what you're looking for because if you're not doing that, you may not make meet the goals that allow you to retire with dignity.

>> Okay. >> How old are you? >> You're welcome.

>> Hi. I am 52 and he is 57.

>> Do you guys have uh combined finances or are you kind of doing this on your own?

>> Doing it on our own.

>> Okay. >> On our own. That's a that's an interesting turn of phrase. So, is he doing his own thing?

and he's going, "Hey, you do what you want to do, but I got my own thing going over here." >> No, no, no, no. I'm just trying to take over this role so he doesn't have to.

>> He does other things.

>> Um, and it's kind of complicating. So,

let's talk about that then because there's a difference between um somebody kind of running point on a team

>> versus I do everything myself because no

one else is part of this. So, you

running point on a team which the team would be you and your husband would be maybe you taking the lead and saying, "Hey, um we need to do life insurance."

And him taking a vested interest and saying, "Okay, great. Are you calling Xander?" And you're like, "Yeah, I am." and you guys having that communication because just having that communication takes some of the load off of you as opposed to I have to get the life insurance. I have to do the research. I have to make the call.

I have to make the budget. I have to, you know, sign up for the Roth. >> You're going to get overwhelmed real quick. >> No, you're not okay with that.

You're not okay cuz you're calling us. You're calling us. You're not okay with it. So, my point >> Initially, I was okay with it.

Now, I'm stuck. >> Right? So, you need to start having a conversation with your husband and saying, "Here's the thing. There's things that you're carrying in the in the house, and there's things that I'm carrying, but when it comes to finances, we need to carry them together because I'm getting overwhelmed.

Here's what I need from you." And tell him what you need. >> It's that simple. >> Yeah.

We have a really great coverage checkup tool that will demystify all of this for you. Make sure that you have the right coverage. Not too much, not too little, not coverage you don't need. Exactly what you need for your family. So, go check it out. ramiesolutions.com/checkup.

Hopefully, we can simplify your finances.

[Music]

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[Music]

2th3 of Americans die without a will.

When you do that, here's what happens. You are just inviting the court, lawyers, and the public into the most personal part of your life. So, don't let the government decides what happens to your estate or even worse, your children. I want to challenge you to create your will this August.

In less than 5 minutes, you can find out if an online will works for you at ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz or just click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

use the promo code will month, that's one word, willmon at checkout during the

month of August. Again, ramseolutions.com/willsquiz is the place to go. Get it done. Whether it's term life or the I know it's the last thing you want to go spend 15 minutes doing. >> Well, George, we had the perfect segue getting into this because during the break we were talking about self-driving cars. >> Oh, that's right. >> We could have just >> That's why I have a will just in case the car decides no, no more. This is my

final destination.

I do think that would happen to me. Like my car just stops on the interstate at 80 miles hour for no reason.

>> I will I don't think my heart can handle a self-driving car. I don't think that I could do it. >> Here's the thing. I trust robots more than humans at this point as far as their safety. >> If they were all self-driving cars, maybe that's different. But as long as like >> Here's my challenge to you. Next time you're driving, look over at every car and see how many of them are just texting on their phones. I know, scrolling Instagram, not even paying attention. At least the robots have like sensors and cameras. They're trying.

>> That's true. >> Humans have just given up. >> They've given up. I'm like, they're on Instacart. They're on I'm like, "What are you doing? Don't you see your very life is at stake? Anyway, >> there we go. Moving on. Get your will.

>> Michael's in Fort Meyers, Florida.

What's going on, Michael?

>> Hey guys. Uh, so I'm 22 years old. Got married uh 8 months ago, >> and we are currently living in a family

friend's house. They are missionaries, so they're out of the country for a year um until next June. Um, so they're renting to us at $800 a month, um, plus

utilities, which comes to about $1,300 a month. Um, and my question is, uh, when June comes, should my wife and I either,

um, rent a place nearby and, rent an apartment until we can save up for a down payment for a house, should we go immediately and use all first-time home buyer benefits to buy a house, or my parents are offering us to stay at their place for 6 months while we are able to save up some money for a down payment.

>> What do you guys make a month?

Uh, currently $7,000 plus uh commission.

>> Amazing. So, what are you doing with all that extra money? Sounds like your expenses are super low.

>> Um, well, currently uh we have uh

$27,000 in car payments or well in uh car loan

total. >> Okay. >> Anything else? >> Any other debt? >> Um, no, that's it.

>> No student loans? No credit cards?

>> No student loans? Uh, no credit cards.

>> Okay. So, um, how long would it take you

to save up a down payment to where you have a mortgage that's no more than 25% of your take-home pay?

>> Well, I I think theoretically, if I I

see there's some um first-time home buyer uh program that allow you to do 3.5. >> Wrong answer. We said, how long is it going to take you to save up a down payment? Not how do you get into a 0% mortgage where you're underwater day one broke with a huge mortgage payment because you have 100% mortgage. That's what you're telling us.

>> Got it. Okay. >> So, this is we're talking a 15-year fixed rate mortgage >> where the payment's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. So, when you use our mortgage calculator at ramseyolutions.com, it'll show you pretty quickly what kind of house you can actually afford. not what the bank says you can afford, not what the FHA, USDA loan says you can afford.

>> So, let's work this plan. Let's kind of work this out for you to help you out.

So, first things first is we need to pay off the debt that you have. So, this is the this is the order in which this will take place so that you can purchase this house when the time comes and it can be a blessing for you and not a burden to where you're not calling us back a year and a half later saying I'm I'm underwater in my house. I'm struggling with my house payment. Okay.

So, the first thing what we need to do is tackle the debt. And the way we're going to do that is we're going to start by saving up a,000 bucks.

off this debt, this $27,000 uh car debt that you have. >> How much do you guys have in savings?

>> Uh well, currently $1,000 cuz we're trying to pay off the debt. >> Okay, great. So, you understand that part. Um, and I want you tonight, your homework, if you haven't already, is I want you to get on every dollar and then I want you to calculate how long with the with the margin and the income that you have, how long will it take you to pay off this $27,000 of car debt. So,

that's your homework. Then the next thing after you've paid the debt off is now we need to have an emergency fund because you can't be out here buying a house. You can't buy a $400,000 house and then when the $4,000 AC blows out, you're up a creek, right? That doesn't make sense. So, you got to have some money saved to be able to actually care for the house and the things that go along with home ownership. So, you need 3 to 6 months of expenses saved in an

emergency fund. That comes after you've paid off the debt. And then now we can start saving up a down payment. So, you've got a ways to go. You guys are newly weds for crying out loud.

>> 22. You're doing great. >> You got a long ways to go. You're not in a rush. You're not in a hurry. So, let's take your time and do it right. >> I gave you Can I give you some napkin math to help you with this, Michael? I think it'll give you some motivation.

Yeah, please. >> You make seven grand a month. Could you throw 4500 of this at your debt if you got real intense?

>> Uh, probably >> every month. Okay. Then your debt is gone in 6 months. So February of 26, you're debtree. Tracking?

>> Mhm. >> Now take the car payments plus the 4,500. You could throw 5 grand a month toward that emergency fund, couldn't you? >> Yeah. >> Four more months, we have 20 grand.

Still tracking. >> Mhm. >> We're at June of 26. Your missionary friends are back. You guys go and rent somewhere completely debtree, still making 7,000 plus commission. Now, you could save five, six grand a month toward a down payment fund, couldn't you? >> Yeah. >> That's 60 70 grand a year.

So, now we're renting for a year or two.

We have a six-f figureure down payment, no debt with an emergency fund. Do you feel how peaceful it would be to buy a house like that?

>> Yeah, definitely. >> And by the way, you're like, I don't know, 24 by then. Just a young gun. Just

a whippers snapper. >> And there's no law in America as it stands that says you have to buy a home by 25 or else you're a loser. That's just what social media told you.

>> Oh gosh. Otherwise, I'd 100% be the loser. >> We don't. Hey, I've been called a loser for other reasons. So, I hope that encourages you. Michael, you're doing better than you think. But I would not rent with family. I would just go rent somewhere. You got to be with your spouse. >> Cuz when I'm at my mom's house, here's what happens. Mom says, "No, no, no.

Don't lift a finger. I'll fold that laundry. Let me cook. Let me grab your plate. And there's something about being an adult and leaving the whole leave and cleave >> and being one with your spouse to go, I'm an independent grown man.

>> Let's visit for the holidays. >> You went to the nice example. I'm like, you're in your room, you're with your lady, and here's mama knocking on the door, and you're like, >> I brought snacks, >> right? >> You're like, now it's not >> going to be very happy to hear that. And you guys, if if you guys were in like some real desperate stage of life and you needed a place to crash for a little bit, sure, there's no crisis happening here. You guys are making great money.

You're going to get rid of the car payments fast. You've got a good housing situation. Use it to your advantage to to get to a better place financially.

And avoid the FHA, VA, USDA. Stick with

the conventional fixed rate loan. 15 years is going to set you guys up for success. Cuz think about this. If you get a house at 25, let's say, and you get a 15-year loan, worst case, if you just make the minimum mortgage payment, you are completely debtree by 40.

You know how weird that makes you in America today? >> Yeah. >> So, just know it's not going to happen tomorrow, but if you just follow through on this plan to a tea and don't veer from it, you will be completely debtree by 40 worst case. And likely what's going to happen is you'll be debtree by 34 cuz you're going to go, "Oh, we can knock this out in >> nine years instead of 15 >> because you did it the right way with margin." >> Michael, be honest.

>> You You convinced me. You convinced me.

I uh one other question if I could. Uh uh we do plan on having kids within this time frame. Would that affect any of the finances or anything? >> Oh, yeah. It's all out the window. Forget I said anything.

>> I'm kidding. Kids are a wonderful blessing. >> Yeah. go definitely have the kids. Yeah, you might have some daycare costs pop up. Obviously, that like George said, he did napkin math for you. So, there's going to be some variables in there that change, but by and large, you're still on track. >> If you say 4,000 instead of 5,000, that

you're still going to be just fine. The key is, can you live on less than you make and use the surplus to get through the baby steps? That is the key >> regardless of the number. Now, the bigger the number, the better. It's going to speed it up. But, uh, kids are a blessing. And if that's in the cards for you guys, go for it. And >> you'll be making more money, too. All of it. All of it balances out.

>> Thanks for the call, Michael. This is the Ramsey Show.

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[Music]

If you're enjoying today's show or any episodes of the Ramsey Show, be sure to hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, send it to someone that you like. Hey, even someone you hate. That could be even more fun.

Really tee them off. >> Oh yeah. But that's a great way to help spread the word about the show and uh it kicks up the algorithms and and helps us get hope to more people and that's what we need in America and beyond right now is some hope. Madison is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. What's going on Madison?

>> Hi. Um I am a teacher and my husband has

a pretty good job in the city. Um, and we have a son and I had no intentions of being a stay-at-home mom, but now after a year and a half, I would love to be a stay-at-home mom. >> Love it. Love finds a way, doesn't it?

>> Tell us the tell us the limitations you feel you're facing in doing that.

>> Um, so being an educator, I have really good health benefits. I have a decent amount of time off in the summer and holidays, so I do feel like it is a best

case scenario job being a mom. But um we

we have a house. So we did our whole like budget and everything before we had the baby off of two incomes, >> of course. >> So to go down to one income, I think is terrifying. >> What does it do when you were to go if you were to go down to one income? What does that do mortgage wise for you? So what percentage does your mortgage eat up of that one income?

>> Um I would say my salary covers the mortgage. So, what's your husband's salary?

>> 120. >> Okay. So, what's he actually taking home

every month? >> Uh, that's Oh, a month he is taking Oh

my gosh. I feel like I don't even know.

>> That's okay. Is it like >> seven or eight? >> Seven or eight?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's say 7,500. And then how much is your mortgage?

>> Our mortgage right now is 3,300.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, you don't it's it's that's tight. edging up to half your income, half the take-home pay going toward that mortgage, which is a lot.

Now, is that does he investing right now in his his 401k and is he covering some health care premiums through his checks?

>> Um, yes. So, he unfortunately he can't be on my healthcare, so I cover it for my son and I. Um, but yeah, he is a big in retirement like he is putting money aside and all that stuff. Also, he puts money into an account for our son's education. >> Okay. I just want to be clear that our 25% parameter is about your after tax income but before other deductions like health care premiums or retirement investing which could help your numbers.

>> It could help them a lot. So that I think that'd be your homework is go home and find out what that number is again just the after tax amount like George said and then say okay what percentage will our mortgage be of that money? Now if you're like 30 you're fine like you can make that work even maybe up to 35 you possibly could make that work for a while. like nothing's on fire.

It'll just be tighter and a little bit slower to get through the baby steps. >> But if you start creeping to the 40s, you're going to really feel that.

>> Um, so right now we just have our mortgage and my husband's student loan debt, but those are the only two debts that we have. >> How much is a student loan debt?

>> Uh, 90. >> Girlfriend, how are you going to save that till last?

>> Um, so right now we like doubles. what he puts towards his student loan. We're on track to have that paid off in seven years. Um, >> can I challenge you guys?

>> That plan sucks.

>> Oh, >> so what I would have him do is pause investing, which is going to hurt his soul, isn't it? Cuz he loves investing.

>> Yes. >> You know what else it does? Lights a fire under him to get rid of those student loans so he can get back to doing what he loves, which is investing.

Cuz right now, he's essentially borrowing money to invest. That's what you're doing by delaying your debt payments to invest instead.

>> Okay. >> So, >> yeah, >> Madison, is it is it one baby or two?

>> Um, we just have one right now, but love the idea of one more. Um, and we're also it's I feel like it's like a blessing and a curse, but even if we had another baby, my my salary is still more than child care would be.

>> So, so >> it's just like I feel physical pain when I'm away from my family. >> I get it. Listen, you're preaching to the choir. I understand. Um uh those the

the mortgage piece of this is a very large piece of this puzzle and you doing the due diligence with your husband to figure that out and then $90,000 of student loans is a big piece of this puzzle. What I if I were in your shoes as a mom of two and understanding what it feels like to leave babies at home, I would play out both scenarios because

there is a piece of this that uh the

relational part matters. You wanting to be at home with the kids and having that time that matters, but quality of life throughout that time also does matter, right? So, if you keep the $90,000 of debt and the mortgage is 50%. That's just you literally being at home with the kids y cuz y'all don't have any money to go anywhere.

So, there's part of this where you do want to play that out and go, what would it look like? Maybe just six more months of working could really change this scenario. Maybe 12 more months of working could really turn this around to where we could pay off this debt and then when we have baby number two or during that period. Do you see what I'm saying?

So, I I don't think that I would jump right into this if you care whatsoever about how staying at home feels financially.

>> but again, that's for you and your husband. I mean, I don't think there's there's not a wrong answer or does that make sense? >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's there's a math problem here and there's also an emotional >> non-logical thing here, which is I just want to stay home with that baby. Mhm. >> And if you're really wanting that, then it's going to require sacrifices.

>> And those sacrifices might mean, hey, we need to downsize the house. You need to go make more income and or you need to do something part-time when he's at home watching the baby if you want to make this work for now. Now, if you get out of debt and you have an emergency fund, it's going to change the game for you guys and reduce the stress.

>> Do you have money saved? How much?

>> Yeah, our um savings account right now

is like 17,000.

>> Okay. Okay. So essentially that kind of

puts you a, you know, gives you a little boost on the debt because if if you choose to do it our way, which I did it this way, George did it this way. Um, what we do is we say, "Okay, we keep $1,000 aside. That is just our temporary basic emergency fund, and everything else goes towards our debt so we can get it paid off really, really fast." And so for you to do that, yeah, that drops you down and now you're in the 70s instead of in the '9s and you can clip through that a lot faster, especially if you're both working >> and he pauses investing and you guys throw a little over four grand a month toward the student loans.

Well, they're gone in 18 months. Few months later, you have your emergency fund. So now it's like, okay, what if in two years I stayed home once I have the second baby and for now we do the daycare thing or we find an alternative route for child care? That might be the way you go.

I'm not saying you guys don't decide you're not going to do it today. >> But if you want peaceful finances in the meantime, and both of you aren't stressed out to your eyeballs, you might want to just go, "Hey, we're going to still accomplish this dream, but here's the timeline, and here's what we're going to do. We're not going to do 19 things at once. We're going to do the baby steps with focus because we both agreed this is the priority.

>> And I did have one more question. So, everyone talks to me all the time about this magical pension that eventually I will get. Is it worth getting like giving that up?

>> Teachers pension >> that I just >> What was that? >> The teachers like your teacher's pension. >> Yes. I mean when you say magical I would

say no because I mean don't get me wrong it's nice to uh contribute to something and have funds there but the best way that you can re uh to me the best possible way is when you have more control over the funds. So if you're contributing the same 15% and you're choosing the funds in a Roth IRA or you know you open another vehicle I think that that is just as great.

>> What Jade's trying to say is pensions perform very poorly and they die with you. But if you invest on your own, you're going to see higher returns with more control and you can pass that money down generationally.

>> And so pensions aren't they're not all what they crack are cracked up to be there. Hey, if you got one, great. I'm happy for you. But I would not stick with this career for 25 years and, you know, let down the dream of being a stay at home mom all for a pension.

You can create your own wealth and your own sort of passive income through your nest egg later on down the road. >> And so this is going to be a tough conversation with your husband. I feel like you're more on board to do whatever it takes. and he might be like, "Uh, I'm not giving up investing.

Forget what those Ramsay guys said.

>> Right. >> Let him listen to this call.

>> Yeah, I will. And we grew up very differently. He was definitely um had a little bit more heartache financially growing up. And I, my parents were Dave Ramsey fans. They kind of instilled that in us. >> Okay. >> Um but we have different like life

upbringing. So, I think it scared him to go down to one income where I'm like, let's just take the risk. Well, it won't be a risk if you do it the right way, which is what George and I talked about. >> We're getting the boat close to the dock if you follow the baby steps with intensity for another 18 to 24 months.

We are rooting for you to be at home with that baby, Madison. Best of luck.

[Music]

[Music]

Live from the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality George Camel, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw, and we're taking your calls88255225.

Aaron is in Danbury, Connecticut. What's going on, Aaron?

Oh, hi George and Jade. So nice to talk with both of you. >> You, too. What's going on? >> Um, I Yeah, I wanted to run uh something

by someone else that I've been thinking about. Um, a plan my parents told me

they're um going to do for retirement.

>> And I'm just trying to figure out if it sounds like at best it just has some pitfalls or if at worst it's sketchy.

>> Okay. >> All right.

So, they have found a retirement community that they think is spectacular.

>> They've put a little um like down down

payment on like a waiting list.

>> Mhm. >> And they told me about the entrance fees and I can't understand like the idea of a refundable scalable entrance fee.

>> What do you mean like every time you drive up or like a club fee?

>> Oh, no. That's a good question. No, like a down payment on living there. Um,

>> yes. >> So, you could pay like for example $400,000 for a like a twoerson

condo and you don't get any refunds or

you could pay like almost a million dollar and get like 90% back in a year

or something >> to be on the waiting list.

Well, after the waiting list, this would be like they would pay a huge sum of money to these people, but they have a choice. Like, >> help me understand. >> 100,000, for example, and not get any Well, that's what I don't understand.

>> Are you talking about a down payment on the house? Are you talking about like a a like a fee for being part of the club and having amenities? Are you talking about some sort of fee to be on the waiting list? It's like a retirement community where they're going to like plan to live for the rest of their lives. >> Understood. >> So it's like just to live there forever.

>> So you're saying they're going to pay $400,000 on top of the price of the home just to live there, >> right? On top of the monthly fees. Yeah.

But the people who go up the sliding scale and pay like a million dollars get like some kind of 90% refund after a

year or something. Hm. It >> just seems really weird to me.

>> I I'll be honest. I'm having a hard time understanding it because I don't think you also have all the information. Now, >> have you talked to them personally?

>> Well, so that's Yeah. So, that's a good question. And I don't have powdered butt syndrome. I'm not going to tell them what to do at all, but I'm trying to like gauge where uh it could potentially

affect my life. Like, >> oh, >> do they have this kind of money?

Um, it might be like most of their nest

egg. Yeah. When they Yeah. When they go.

>> I mean, does that include the residence is what I'm trying to find out. Does the 400,000 include where they will actually live? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And then a monthly fee on top of that.

>> So, they're paying $400,000 for a townhouse. Is it a condo? Is it a single family? What is it?

>> Right. It It's like a single family, but they won't own it. It's just then they get to like move when they get a little older into like another dwelling >> because the idea is this is essentially the last place you live.

>> Understood. >> Exactly. >> So it's like a ladder. >> My other Yeah.

There's like a ladder for the entrance fees which I don't understand. And then >> I would get clarity on that. I would say this is it doesn't sound like they're trying to scam you. This is pretty normal in the retirement community um field.

But this is it's kind of like a really high sort of HOA country club fee to buy in. >> Mhm. That's really what's happening here. And it's covering their long-term future operating costs.

And you know, it's very capital intensive to run one of these places.

>> The question for for you is how does this reflect on you if if they change their mind or if they >> are they going to be broke in five or 10 years if they do this? That's the scary part. What happens if um this company like

gets sold and the rules change or it goes bankrupt? >> Oh boy. I mean, I feel like we have to see the >> bylaws or like I feel like I'd want to read that in the contract to find out is there >> Yeah. >> is there any language around that that sort of thing.

So maybe just ask him say, "Hey, you've been talking about this community. Can I go with you to your next meeting with the the rep or what, however they're going and get your eyes on some of the literature so you can read through it instead of going off of because you know how sometimes your mom will explain something and it's like wait what and they leave things out because they understand it but they're leaving big chunks of it out.

>> Yeah. >> And I would also look into alternative options for them.

And so I don't want them to get too stareyed cuz they were sold on the brochure and the landscaping with my tour and the people are so nice.

Yes. And they're charging five times for that >> versus the place down the road. So I would look into other options. I would also research.

Just start researching entrance fee for continuing care retirement communities and you can learn about it online and kind of get your bearings under you before you walk into that meeting so that you're more equipped. Or you could even call the place up and say, uh, you know, keep them anonymous and say, "Hey, my parents are going to be living here.

Just treat me as though I were somebody who was going to move in here." And that way you could understand it.

>> Yeah, that's a good idea. >> And see what the options are for waving it. What happens if they don't pay that?

Is there no way to get in if they don't pay the upfront fee since there's varying levels anyways? Mhm.

>> So, I would just look into all the options and do a whole bunch of homework. Uh, wishing you the best of luck. You're an awesome daughter for doing that. >> Corey is up in Florida. What's going on, Corey?

>> Hey guys. Uh, wow. I'm so excited to talk to both of you. So, thank you for taking my call. >> Yeah, we're happy to talk to you. What's your question today?

>> Um, so I am a 27year-old pilot, not

currently working in aviation. Um my wife and I have $328,000 in debt. Um mostly it's a $246,000

mortgage, $52,000 in student loans uh

from flight school and $23,000 truck loan. Um we make about $110,000 a year

combined, bringing home uh $7,430 a

month. Uh no kids. And um my question is

I I really want to get back into aviation, but as you know, I think

you've heard you guys talk about it maybe once before. Uh aviation is very expensive and it would take a lot for me to get back into it. Maybe just I have a commercial pilot's license, but it's like um I'm not quite uh experienced

enough. I don't have enough hours to really get a job right now.

>> What's it going to cost to to float that gap? I think being realistic, if I paid for all of it be about $15,000, I think that I could really um you know, I could get some time in and you know, pay for some of it just to get back into it. >> So 15 grand gets you to the dream job with making more money.

>> Uh in part, yes.

>> What's your truck worth?

>> Um it's it's going on the market tomorrow, by the way. It's uh it's worth 20 22,000. Um I'm cleaning it up to take

some pictures of it. Honestly, we we just got blessed with um her her parents

wanted to give us uh a car and her sister wanted to give us a car. So, we have two cars coming in um that are reliable, the freedom truck payment, why don't you use that and commit that to savings and save up that 15 grand to get you the education and uh then you'll tackle the student loans. That's all that's left other than the mortgage. So, the the debt's not as much as you think.

You can tackle this pretty fast. get aggressive with it to get to that pilot job and hopefully you can double your household income, man. Cheering you on.

Love that.

[Music]

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[Music]

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That's why Refi specializes in helping borrowers like you find real solutions with low fixed rate refinancing. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Carl in Georgia. He says, "I'm very disappointed with what you advise regarding combining all funds together when married. What about when you've been married less than 2 years and the couple gets later married later in life?

My wife showed me your video and says she wants her name added to everything I have. Do you think I'm supposed to put her name on everything I had before marriage and then she gets half of that if we divorce? This caused a major problem and she has moved out. No man on

earth would give everything he had before marriage in his wife's name.

Please explain yourself.

>> I love this question so much from Carl.

>> Listen, Carl, I um I'm going to have to take a quick breather cuz Carl Carl is

making me mad. Um >> I just love that Carl in the question blaming us for the dissolution of his

marriage >> is very telling about how Carl acts in his normal everyday life. Carl, I'm going to tell you, um, just because something is your second marriage doesn't mean it should be no have no, you know, it's a marriage is still built on the same things. A good marriage is still built on the same things. It's still trust, right?

There's still those levels that need to be there. So clearly, even in your second marriage, you're like, there's something about this woman that I don't feel like I can trust her because you're not willing to share your finances with her. you're not willing to put your her name on your assets and you're already anticipating a divorce cuz you're saying, "Well, what will happen when we divorce?" And I don't know about you, but I don't feel warm and cushy going into a relationship like that. Now, don't get me wrong, there are some things that we can plan for.

Let's say he had millions and millions of dollars, second marriage, he's got children, and she's got, you know, the person he's marrying has nothing. There are some caveats in there and some nuance that can be discussed, but it kind of just sounds like you guys are just kind of like two two folks, like two regular folks like me or George. And >> it sounds like Carl was already on thin ice and then she saw this video and went, "Hey, here's what these Ramsay people said and that sort of exposed the deeper issues in the marriage and he didn't like that." >> If she said, "Hey, I want to combine everything and that made you mad." You must have gone, you must have given her the smoke for her to just up and move out is what I'm saying.

So, you already were feeling some type of way about this whole idea. So, the problem, my friend, is not with George or I. The problem was you signed up.

>> The problem is the man in the mirror. I know that's right. >> Here's why. If I buy a house the day before I get married and then I go, "Hey, Whitney, not putting your name on this house, but you better pay half the rent, half the mortgage.

Also, you're not getting any equity in this house because I owned it before we were married. >> Oh lord. Oh gosh. That's a recipe for a beatd down.

>> I'll be lucky to sleep on the couch in my own house. >> I know. That's right. >> It's just that that attitude crushes relationships.

>> Yeah. There's zero trust there. And it's it's uh it's kind of like the opposite. You know, here we quote Zig Ziggler, "If you aim at nothing, you hit it every time." It's almost the opposite. If you're aiming at something to dissolve or possibly divorce, it's like then that's likely what's going to happen because you've put that out there and it's almost like you've created a target of when we divorce, when we go our separate ways. And there's no way that you can

avoid that. I mean, I don't know about you, George, when I was married, the advice I got was, you never even need to say the word divorce. Like, you just need to don't even put it in there and just act like every problem is a problem that can be solved. And I mean, we know there's limits here, but do you see what I'm saying?

>> Well, here's the funny thing. If you live your life and live your marriage with the gloves up in front of your face, eventually you're going to be in a boxing match. >> 100. Love that, George.

>> That's how it works. But when you live your life hands wide open, hey, there's no ring here. We're all in this together.

>> Amazing things happen. You build wealth exponentially together.

>> And that's what my wife and I have done from day one. We combin We had one joint checking account, one joint savings account. her name's on everything. And this is harder to do later in life when you've lived independently and you go, "Well, this is my money that I earned and whatever she earns, she can do with that what she wants." >> What happens when she stays at home?

>> Well, then I guess I'll give her an allowance. Okay, so you're going to treat your wife like a child and hope this marriage is successful. Good luck with that, bro. >> Good luck with that.

>> That's what we've seen happen in reality. Uh, so Carl, I'm sorry that I really hate that this is happening. I hope there's hope for this marriage, but do not blame us because the problems were exposed in your marriage. >> Yeah.

He said, "No man on earth would give everything he had before marriage in a wife's name." I don't >> listen, >> I think you've created a category unto yourself, Carl.

>> Carl, whenever I think of the name Carl, I think of On the Walking Dead and the son's name was Carl. Just >> I was thinking Carl Winslow. And that's very telling of our of our uh >> No, Carl W. Carl. Okay. Thank you.

>> Carl Loggerfeld. There's a lot of >> You lost me on that. >> Lot of great Carl. >> Is that a sports reference? >> No. Fashion. >> Oh, okay. Sports and fashion. The two things I I missed out on. >> Carl 0 for three. O for three.

>> All right. Justin is in Huntsville, Alabama. What's going on, Justin?

>> Hey. So, I'm calling in today. I've just got a brief question. I'm about to get married in about a month and a half.

Woo. >> Uh, my fiance is in school full-time and

working full-time. Um, she is carrying

about $20,000 in student debt. She's

going to be a teacher. I'm self-employed

and I am debtree thankfully. Uh, I I

have a little bit of money saved up and I do have some goals and aspirations. We do uh to make some investments to leave

things to our grandchildren. hopefully one day. But >> yeah, >> I want to make sure that we're doing the right thing financially as soon as we get married um for setting ourselves up

to reach those goals and how to take care of this student debt that she has.

>> I love that mentality. How much money do you have right now in savings?

>> About 50,000. >> Woo. >> Good for you. >> And the wedding is paid for.

Uh yes, her parents and my parents both

have have contributed to that.

>> Beautiful. So it sounds like day one

after you come back from the honeymoon, combine the checking account and write a check and pay off the student loans.

>> Okay. >> And then you still have an emergency fund on top of that sitting there, right?

>> Um well, the 50,000 was kind of

>> You have 30. >> 50 minus 20 for her student loans. You still have 30 left over. Absolutely.

>> Is that is that three to six months of your basic budget?

>> Um it it should be I I mean I it takes

about $500 a month um for for me and

then for her we're thinking it'll add another $300 a month.

>> How are y'all living? >> You living like a shoe box.

>> I I my grandparents work really hard and

my dad and I are business partners together. and my grand >> You're telling me your entire expenses to run your life is $500.

>> I I live pretty cheap. Uh I drive an old truck landscaping company.

>> You rent? >> 23. >> Okay. So, you're not pay You're still on your parents' insurance, still on their health insurance, still on their car insurance. What are you paying for? A phone and food.

>> Actually, no. My business my business pays for everything. Uh I've got it set up that way. Um, my dad, my business

covers everything, phone, insurance, all of that. >> But if you run the business, isn't that profits you would have taken home that are going out as expenses?

>> Um, in regards to the business itself,

just can you restate that? I'm sorry.

>> If you're, let's say you're paying $100 for the phone through the business, that's great, but that's a $100 you're not taking home that you're instead putting out there as an expense.

So, I just don't want to pretend like you have no expenses when you really do.

You're just running them through the business as sort of a write-off, I imagine.

>> Exactly. So, >> so it's covering your utilities. It's covering your your, you know, vehicle and your insurance and you're on your parents uh health and medical insurance.

So, yeah, you have low expenses. Just remember, it's not going to stay that way. Yeah, you 30,000 of an emergency fund is perfectly fine for you.

>> Which means as soon as you're married, you're debtree with an emergency fund.

Now we can begin begin investing for retirement, 15% of our household income and saving up a down payment for a house >> as a newlywed couple. You guys are in great shape, Justin. >> I'm cheering for you, man. That's awesome. Way to go.

>> She's lucky to have you. You're lucky to have her. That's the kind of marriage you want where you both feel like you got the longer end of the stick. >> And when he's willing to put her name on on the stuff. >> That's right. He's combining finances day one. Unlike Carl.

[Music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw.

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You're in for a good time. Tony is in Indiana up next. What's going on, Tony?

What hils you?

>> Hi, how are you guys? I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um so this this coming weekend um we've

got my mother-in-law moving in with us.

Um she's >> You sound stoked about it, man.

>> Well, I'm I'm trying to not have it

affect me financially,

uh not have it affect our marriage.

You're like a You sound like a puppy whose tail stopped wagging.

>> Just Oh, my mother.

>> So, why is she moving in? What's going on? >> What's the impetus for this?

>> Uh she's had some substance abuse issues. >> Okay. >> And um we have uh convinced her to sell

her condo. So, she's at the point where she can walk away um pay all her debt

and not owe anybody anything. She'll probably have a few thousand dollars to her name, so she won't be hurt that way.

So, we're trying to help out and do the right thing. And then >> Is she working?

>> No. >> She hasn't worked since October.

>> Did she get help for the substance?

>> Um, that's been a thing, too. It's kind of voluntary. So, um, there hasn't been

any progress there. >> What do you mean voluntary?

Well, I don't think they can make you go into a program. You have to do it on your own. >> But that would I mean, if if someone is moving into my house who has a history of substance abuse, there's no way I'm letting them in the front door unless there's clear progress towards healing, aka she is in a program, she's in AA,

rehab, whatever it may be in her situation. >> Yeah. Do you have kids in the house?

>> We have two kids. Yes.

>> That's a no for me, dog.

>> Yeah. That's a no even for your mother-in-law. I guess that's the biggest thing I'm wrestling with. It's my wife's mother. So, >> yeah. I mean, it's you're creating an unsafe environment at that point.

>> What's the nature of the substance? Is it like alcohol abuse? Is she on like opioids? Like >> drugs? >> No, it's alcohol abuse.

>> Okay. >> I think that you're you This is hard.

Okay. So, I'm I I don't want to say anything. It's I, you know, I'm not trying to be trit here, but um alcohol

that that has an there's an expression of that, right? When she's under the influence of that and she has not said that she wants help with it. So, you have to know that she's going to be in your environment under the influence of alcohol. And I don't know how she how she expresses that.

Is it anger? Is it rage? Is it does she get really quiet? I don't know what that is.

But you now know that your kids are going to experience that as well.

like to get help. I would like to go to rehab. That could paint a different picture. But she has not said that. So part of me wonders if you guys are not letting um consequences associated with her

actions hit her so that she might then say, you know, I do need help. And I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, I wish Dr. John was here. Matter of fact, if he's around here, roll him in.

But >> John, come on in. But no, there needs to be a clear >> plan here of saying, "Hey, there's going to be a clear sobriety expectation. Uh we need to have a plan. What happens if there is a relapse?

We need to talk about all of this upfront before any of this happens." >> Yeah, we we've had that discussion about sobriety um and being in the house. I just I'm worried it's going to fail pretty quick. Um well, >> because she's not been she's not shown that she can do that.

>> Um, I want to say yes, but I mean the fact that she's been unemployed for, you know, almost a full year now makes me question otherwise. I mean, a lot of it for me. >> I mean, that would be another expectation. Hey, you're going to be working 40 hours a week if you're going to be living with us while staying completely sober.

>> Yeah. >> Otherwise, what are we doing? And I was completely detached from the situation.

it would be a lot easier for me to make the call of it being a no. But like you said, it's a it's a tough situation and I just I want to not be like I don't

know. >> It's not you being it's you setting the boundaries and if she can't adhere to the boundaries then that's her opting out. >> But why does she have to live with you?

I understood her selling off the house to get out of debt. Why can't she now go to an apartment and you guys say, "Okay, we took the, you know, you had a couple thousand left off of the sale of your house after paying off your debt. That's your, you know, down payment on your on on your apartment, first and last month's rent. And then, mom, it's up to you to keep this thing rolling. You got, you got a fridge full of food, you got this. It's up to you to keep it rolling.

What does her living with you do?

Because you guys are not addiction specialists. So, what does that I'm trying to understand what does her living with you provide for her other than >> a roof over her head? But she can have a roof over her head >> in theory, but she hasn't been able to maintain a job since past October. She's

on the path of homelessness at this point. >> But has she ever gotten that close to where it's like I'm on the street? Do you think that she'll let herself get that that close?

>> I honestly don't know. I guess we haven't we haven't gone that route of just saying good luck.

You may have to you may have to see because if she's given okay your your debt's gone, here's your apartment. This is a a a rent that you can afford if you just go out and grab a job at Walmart.

Everything is here and you've you've gone over the budget. Here's what you need to earn. Here's some of the places that you can apply. It's up to you, mom, to go like, you know, maybe you fund her first month and it's like it's up to you to keep this going versus you just giving her. Does that make sense? And you're also putting your family in a very precarious situation.

>> Yeah. I would not do some kind of handshake >> enabling in a way.

>> Well, I what I would do personally, and this is not to be cruel, but I would have her sign a house rules and sobriety agreement that has very clear stipulations, very clear checkpoints as to what's going to happen and what happens if she doesn't comply.

>> And that's to be that's just to be kind to because you've probably heard this phrase, to be unclear is to be unkind.

to make up rules on the fly and kick her out when she's like, "Whoa, I didn't know." And so, just lay it all out there and say, "If you're going to move in with us, it's going to be you have 30 days to get a full-time job. If you don't, you're going to need to go find your own place.

That's it. And if you don't remain sober for the one, if there's alcohol in this house, you're out. >> If you come home drunk, you're out.

>> Game over." And then it's up to her.

She's a grown woman who makes her own decisions. It's not you being cruel.

It's you saying, "Here are the rules so that we can create a safe environment for our family," which is your priority.

>> Yep. >> And your wife needs to be on board with this, too. It can't be like they're ganging up on you and they don't agree.

You and your wife need to be in total alignment walking into this as a united front.

>> Yep. And I I guess that's my biggest fear. I feel like this is going to go bad in some sort of way. And I just

don't know which way it's going to go bad. And we've had a great marriage so far. And I don't want it to be affected by somebody else's poor decisions.

>> Listen, I'll be honest with you. I I and I I I I think I'm willing to stand on business that I don't think I would bring her in. I think a caveat to me

bringing her in and doing George's deal would be you must go through rehab first.

>> That would be okay. If you mom-in-law, if you do that, you can come stay with us and then when you come stay with us, here are the rules. But I don't think I don't think I could like you said invite that level of chaos like you said because it will affect your marriage. It will affect what your kids see like that is I feel like you got to hit this rehab first and then we can talk about it.

And your spidey sense is tingling. That's all very valid. And if your wife disagrees with this, I think she's kind of a little stareyed by the situation just wanting to help her mom because she's a sweet daughter. But you guys need to be united on this.

There's going to be a lot of discussions, a lot of homework. figuring out, okay, what does this contract say? What must be true for her to live with us? And if she doesn't comply, that's her opting out.

You gave her the choice, but we're not just going to give her cart blanch to do what she wants in our house and bring invite crazy in when we've got young kids. No thank you.

[Music]

[Music]

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps? I hope so. If you're not sure, take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes of this episode. Click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. Titus is up next

in Pennsylvania, Pottsville to be exact.

>> Okay, >> it's exciting. Titus, what's going on?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Quick, yes, quick question. So basically

looking for some of financial advice here. Would you take or would you pass?

Um 28 years old, married, two little boys. Um we're farmers here and my dad

is getting older. He's ready to transition the farm. He is offering so it's bank appraised 2.7 million. It cash

flows between 360 and 400,000 a year. Um

he's offering it to us at 1.9 million.

Uh my situation is I own a I own a 50acre farm. Um and I it's it's

appraised at 8005. I owe just under 600

on it. So basically 200 grand in equity.

>> And would would you sell your 50acre farm and buy his? Is that the plan?

>> That's correct. Yep.

>> Okay. And you said it's appraised at 800.

>> That's correct. Yep. >> Okay. Um, >> so you'd walk away from your farm with about 150k, maybe?

>> Uh, probably 200.

>> 200 to put down on a $1.9 million deal.

>> That's correct.

>> But you're saying it's going to increase your income by $400,000 a year or would

that replace your income?

>> That replaces my income. U the other caveat is it's not a it's not completely a full-time job. It's like a 40hour a week job. I could probably pick up another 20 years. >> That's full time to city slickers like me. But I guess to the farmer, you're like, "No, that's part time. I normally do 60 to 80," >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah. That's That's where

>> That's interesting. I mean, it sounds like it's a good deal. Uh, is he in good health? Is he just retiring?

>> He's retiring. Yep. He's off to some other enterprises. >> Okay. I'm just trying to figure out there's there's some real estate stuff here that I would want to at least ask a tax pro, maybe even a real estate attorney to figure out, which is step up in basis and if you inherited this instead of purchasing it, but it sounds like he needs the money. >> That's actually we've been working through that. Um, yeah, there is there is some interesting things there that can be done with inheritance. >> Yeah. What did he buy it for?

>> He he so he bought it as a as a bare field for like 200,000 and built every building that's on it. So, it's a it's a poultry raising operation. We raise about 700,000 chickens a year. Um, and

um, it all the money is basically in the facilities there.

>> Wow. Have you run the numbers on taking out a $1.7 million mortgage for this?

>> I have. Um, I'm looking at like 130

clear after running the operation and paying the mortgage.

>> Interesting. And what are you making?

What are you taking home on your current farm?

>> Uh, so I'm working full-time

um away from the farm and I just do the farm on weekends and evenings. I'm making just around 100k.

>> So all this 430k bump,

>> but you but you would be working less, you said.

>> Yes. Um, and I would lose my 100k salary

now and just go to the fourth to to the three to 400k I would make then. Yeah,

>> that would be your gross salary for the year. >> That's correct. Y >> What does your wife think about this?

>> She's good with it. Um we love the farming lifestyle. Uh we like u you know living in the country and raising our people that way. Um yeah, 100% on board.

>> Wow. I mean on paper I I if you've run

the numbers going, "Hey, our income's going to increase this much. We can very comfortably afford the payment on this farm. It's going to consistently yield this." Um, you know, there's definitely more risk with this situation. I mean, you still owe that lender regardless of the harvest. >> You know, you know the farm life bet way better than I do. I'm I'm beyond my skis on this one. >> But I would get the advice of multiple experts in this field, no pun intended.

>> Is it more about half the work? Is that the biggest allure?

>> No. Um, the allure is basically we could own our own operation. I can be at home once this thing is, you know, paid for.

Um, I can be at home full-time with the family. >> But wouldn't you be able to do those things? >> Wouldn't you be able to do those things quicker if you stayed in the farm you had cuz you'd owe less?

>> Well, I'd have to get a job basically.

So, I'm working on this farm full-time and that's where my salary is coming from. And so, if I don't want it, dad's going to sell it. Um, and at that point probably, you know, I don't keep my job there and I'm I'm I'm taking a lunch box somewhere. Do you also lose benefits that would affect your family if you're just farming? >> Um, not necessarily. I mean, yeah. No,

not necessarily. I'm not against >> Okay. Because here's my thing. On paper, you're tripling your payments and tripling your income.

>> So, I just don't want it to be a kind of like a net wash in the end where you're going, "Hey, we're making great money, but man, it's going way back out and there's a lot of upkeep here." >> That's kind of what it sounds like. That's why I can't understand why I don't really see the benefit other than the less hours of work. >> How I how I look how I run the numbers, I could if I pick up a part-time job, I can have it paid for in maybe 15 or 16 years.

have no debt and it should be all just straight income.

>> That's a long-term plan for something that is very physically taxing. You're like, "Well, 16 years from now of me working 80 hours a week, hopefully we can be debtree." >> Can we Can we go back to your current farm for a little bit that that you work on the weekend? You just said you do it on the weekends. Is that what it is?

>> That's correct. Yep. >> What would happen if you poured 40 hours a week into that farm?

>> It's difficult. So, it's it's difficult making a full-time living on a small farm. >> Understood. >> It can be done. It can be done, but you're working 80 to 90 hours a week for probably, you know, in the 100 to 125k

return. >> Okay. So, your acres are limiting your output, obviously. >> Next question. What does dad do if you don't go through with this deal?

>> What's his plan? >> Probably puts it on auction.

>> And takes the 2.7. >> I just don't want you to do it to help out dad. Obviously, he's giving you a deal on this. Would he sell it for 2.7 million if it went to auction?

>> Yes, it would go to that. Wow,

man. These numbers just kind of it you're taken aback by it. And so it would definitely give me pause. I would want to like just cross the tees, dot the eyes, get seven people's eyes on this thing, have everything drawn up, contracts, lawyers, make sure it looks good on paper, run the numbers seven times in the budget before I would make this leap.

>> Okay. >> It's going to add stress. >> Working on I haven't I I feel like I've done that. Um and I just wanted to get your your opinion. What about um then sorry, one more thought. So the living situation >> when you go to your dad's farm, are you is there a residence that you'll get to live in? What how does that play into all this? >> Is it very much inhabitable right now?

Your family would love it or is it going to cost 100 grand to renovate it?

>> No, it's very much inhabitable. Um very nice house. >> Okay.

Yeah. Other than the big red flag to me is the step up in basis inheritance piece. So I would talk to a real estate attorney on that one and uh a tax pro to understand the implications of this deal for both your father and for you.

>> Mhm. >> But man, if you're if you're you know, you've done the math, your sights are set on this thing and you've crunched the numbers, your wife's on board, your family's on board, it's it's undoable in a sense, like if you hate this place and it's a nuisance, could you sell it for 2.7 million a few years from now?

>> I could. Yep. But you wouldn't because it's too sentimental at that point, isn't it? >> It's dad's farm. He wouldn't have wanted this, right?

>> I would forfeit some collateral with the, you know, most my parents relationship there. I think take it over and then I would cash out the 800k >> and then yeah, you make all the profit and dad did. He's going, "Wait, I gave it to you as a So that's the other part of this you need to think through is the whatifs and the feelings and the relationships and what could be damaged >> if things don't work out perfectly on paper." That's a good point, George. >> That's all we've seen so far is on paper, but life, as you know, >> is is much more than that.

So, man, I mean, it's a sweet deal.

discount from dad, which is nice, but it's also still a $1.7 million mortgage,

hoping that we can still create this level of income consistently. And but it sounds like you're willing to do the work, get seven jobs if you have to to keep this dream alive. So, uh, you you have a green light for me, but it's sort of like it's caution.

>> Maybe a flashing flashing yellow flashing yellow for me on this one. But >> man, you know more about this than I do.

So, I'm again, I'm beyond my skis, >> but man, it makes me want to get on a farm, Jade. You think I could survive out there for at least an hour? >> Oh, no. If it was 70° in the shade and I

could only lift like things under 50 lbs, I could I could be out there. >> You could be out there. Okay, I'll take your word for it. I'd wear some skinny jean overalls. Make everyone upset.

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[Music] From the Ramsey Network, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Jade Warshaw. This is the show where we help people build wealth, do work they love, and create amazing relationships.

Christian is in Denver coming up here.

What's going on, Christian?

>> Hi there. Uh, thank you for taking my call also. Um, >> sure. >> Um, yeah, I'm in a a bit of a pickle situation. Um, I have an older sister

who started a business um, under my name, an LLC, and uh,

>> time.

>> Yes. Is it your business?

>> It's not mine. No. >> Did you know that she was doing this?

>> Yes, I consented. Um because I know she

asked me as as a favor kind of thing.

>> Um >> is this like a co-signer for debt? I don't understand what how this was a favor.

>> Why didn't she put her own name on >> construction company? And it was it was kind of so that she didn't have she's a

bit of a con a con artist. And um she did it so that she didn't have too many businesses under her name.

>> What? And you agreed?

>> Yes. Like an idiot.

>> Well, yeah. I was going to say, what does that say about you to work handinhand with a known con artist?

>> I know. I I didn't think it would have

caused this many issues. Um yeah, she

>> So, what issues are you now? And >> tell us the issues you're facing.

Yeah. So, she um during and then years

later COVID happened and she decided to take a loan out um under this LLC and

and so that she just hasn't been paying it at all and it's just >> to use for personal whatever just blowing money.

>> What was that? >> Was what did she use the debt for?

>> She personal personal uses. She did not use it for the business. So, she has been fraudulently starting LLC's, taking out debt against that to then spend personally.

>> Yes. >> And then you were like, "Sure, I'll help you out, sis. I'll be an accomplice to this crime." >> Yeah. So, >> so how much money? >> Unfortunately, >> how much money how deep how deep is she in this?

>> Yeah, the loans it was two loans. um they were a total of 122,000

and now with interest they're about 135.

>> You do understand that you're the one liable here. You're the one who's going to get sued. You're the one who's going to have your credit totally trashed.

>> I feel like there's a legality there, too, because it's completely >> the debt is in your name, correct?

>> Yes.

>> Oh my goodness. >> And there's no there's no operating business. It's just totally fake.

>> No, there was Yes, there was an operating business and um she ended up losing that business in 2022.

>> Moving it to where?

>> Oh, she just lost it.

>> Oh, lost it. Losing it. I misunderstood you. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you mentioned earlier that she has done a lot of this. How many times how many fake businesses or failed

businesses has she run through?

>> Well, uh, under this LLC with my name, she it started off as a as a like a retail shop selling candles and things and then she ended up doing a um a a

barberh shop salon.

>> And then she you said she also had a construction business. And then she Yes, she also ha had a construction business which um I'm not even sure if she had that under her name, but she um >> Do any of these businesses still exist?

They're actually operating day >> pretty nope.

>> Now, can I ask you a question?

What in the world would make you say yes to this? Where where was your mind at?

We've spent enough time talking about her. tell us about you and what would cause you to agree to something so like

clearly bad. >> Yeah, she was just like when when she first convinced me to do the the the business under my name, she she pretty much was just saying like this is going to help your credit out. Um if you need to take a loan out in the future, this would help you out. Um, >> and you believed her like like yes like full um

>> well here's the bottom line. If we're starting today, she you're not going to refinance this in her name. She's not going to do that and she probably can't do that.

>> That's the solution here. She takes over the payments, refinances the LLC and all the debt in her name. >> Mhm. But she won't do that.

>> Have you talked to her about that?

>> I have not. No, >> that would be I would fight to the death to make sure that happens cuz if not, here's the here's the bad news. You're on the hook for 130 grand.

>> Mhm. >> And you have to pay that off.

>> Mhm. And you may as well fight to the death on the thing that D that uh George just told you because your your relationship's ruined anyway if she says. Do you see what I'm saying?

>> The fact that she conned her own sister

>> is disgusting. First of all, it's despicable. So, this relationship didn't exist. It was transactional and she used you.

That should make you angry, >> right? >> What are you doing for work?

>> Um, I'm a server, but I just um I just

stopped working because I'm expecting a baby. So, >> um I'm expecting a baby pretty soon here. So, >> is the father in your life?

>> Where's dad?

Um he's um he has some mental health

issues. So he's unfortunately not he's

not going to support me much I don't think. >> Okay so you're going to be a single mom?

>> Yes. So, we must this is like we must

talk to your sister and and she's got to

you've got to put this in terms that she can understand and say, "Listen, you you

you tricked me and I am now in really

hot water. I cannot pay this loan that is actually your loan. I have another life coming into this world that I have to feed and take care of. You need to come down with me to the bank and you have got to ref we've got to refinance this so that you can take the payment.

Otherwise, you are effective. That means you're effectively trying to ruin my life if you don't do this. And that's what I'd say to her. >> You're going to have to find the last ounce of empathy that exists in her body. >> Mhm. >> If it's in there to convince her to do this, cuz you've got your own crisis going on. >> The last thing you need is this. Do you have any other debt?

>> Uh, yeah. Student loan debt.

>> How much?

>> Uh, right now, I'm not sure, but maybe like 65,000. What's that degree in? Or

what did you start school for?

>> Um, that was a uh communication degree

and um a double degree in uh business uh

Spanish business. >> Okay. >> Uh translating kind of >> Oh, okay. Yeah. >> So, what what type of job were you hoping to do with that? And can we still start headed towards that direction?

>> Um I mean like interpreting.

>> Yeah. >> I'm translating. Um, >> have you looked for jobs in that field?

>> I have not. No.

>> How come?

>> I don't know. I just got used to the the serving and making tips and just like I just stayed doing this. Um, >> so what are you doing for income now? You just said you'd stopped.

>> Yeah, right now I'm not doing anything.

I just stopped about a week ago cuz >> How are you paying the bills?

>> Well, I just moved in with my mom. Um,

>> okay. >> And I was able to save. I have some I have some money saved and the worry is that um the government will just like grab it.

>> Well, if you don't pay your student loans, they will >> and the creditors are going to come after it. And so, Christian, I'm heartbroken over your situation. I'm going to gift you a session with a financial coach on us who can walk with you, you know, for much longer than we can on this call to try to unravel the pieces and find some hope in this very desperate situation. I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hang on the line.

Chris is going to pick up. We're going to hook you up with a financial coaching session >> and start looking for translator jobs today.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, doom and gloom, fear-mongering, conflicting data. It's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market and so we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month at about 441,000.

The number of homes for sale hit a million for the second month in a row and buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers are facing more competition. Average 15-year fixed rate held steady at about 6% last month.

So, if you're debtree, you got a fully funded emergency fund, a solid down payment, now is a great time to buy and even sell your home. So, to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseyssolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes description if you're on podcast or YouTube. Teresa is up next in Chattanooga, Tennessee. What's going on, Teresa?

>> Hello. Um, just down the road from you.

We're hoping you can settle a marital argument. >> We love Juicy. >> We love doing this.

>> All right. Who's right? Who's wrong?

>> I'm right, of course. >> Perfect. Um, my husband and I are both 57. We are both currently transitioning

our careers, which is a little weird timing, but it's happening. And >> it's about time you had a midlife crisis, Teresa.

>> Yes, I know. I've been in my job for 20 years, so it's a good time to transition. >> Um, we have $2.5 million saved

>> and we're debtree. Um, good cars. We're

all set up for that stuff. Mhm.

>> We have um $290,000

mortgage and my husband um thinks says Dave says

Dave says all day long Dave says pay off the mortgage. My financial advisor says

you're making about 10% on your investments. Your your mortgage interest is 4.25%.

Let's not pay it off and get be making the money on the mortgage money that's in the bank. Can we play a fun game, Teresa? >> Let's do it.

>> Who is incentivized for you to stay investing instead of pull out $290,000

to pay off the mortgage? Who benefits from that the most? >> And I totally understand that. Say it.

>> She does. >> Exactly. Your financial advisor is incentivized to keep you invested.

>> You were going to say that. >> So, just I think it's important to have the full context and also Yes. We always

say, hey, the market will generally do 10 11% over the long haul, >> but we also know the market could be negative 22% next year.

>> And so there's a force savings plan with a known variable when you pay down the mortgage. And we also know, and you know, it's more than just about math.

You'll have emotional peace as you head into what could be retirement in the next 5 years.

That's what he's that's his thing is to not have that hanging on us, especially in this transition time.

>> And we didn't factor in this. You can now invest your mortgage payment when it's paid off. Can't you?

>> Yes. >> Have you calculated those numbers? Have you factored that into the equation?

>> Well, no, because at the moment we're transitioning, so I don't have a real idea what our income is going to be in the next couple years. >> Well, let's say there is none. What if you have a real hard time transitioning?

There's a layoff. Man, having no mortgage would really free you guys up to be flexible, wouldn't it?

>> Yes, but having that extra $300,000 in the bank would give me a little more security. So, see, this is what we do.

>> You have two and a half million to Let's not act like this is your entire nest egg we're asking you to deplete. How much of this is in nonretirement?

>> Oh, he's really smiling now. Can you not do this? I don't think >> Oh, your husband's next to you?

>> No, he's on the other end of the he can hear you. >> Oh, good. Okay. He's loving this whole conversation. I mean, you also have to remember this. If you paid off the mortgage and you hate it, you could always borrow against it again and put it right back. >> You could. It'll be a slightly higher rate, but you could do it. The banks will always lend you more. >> But I bet you won't. Like, I'm willing to make that deal because I know you won't.

>> Okay. Okay. Well, I was just to me the math maths, you know, and uh you know, I was showing him like what 10% looks like compared to 4%. And >> but we're not here's the thing. The truth is we're not making a guaranteed 10% every year.

>> And there's more to the equation than math, which is what George also highlighted. >> And go look at what you're actually paying in interest this month because the mortgage is frontloaded with the interest, >> right? So this month I paid $1,000 in interest and $500 in principal.

>> Exactly. And so you have to look at the actual numbers of what's happening with the interest. It's not a it's not the same as compound growth in the investments. >> That's a good point.

>> As it is paying the interest. So there's the mathematical argument, there's the emotional argument, there's the logical argument, but the truth is you're going to have less risk in your life and more peace if you pay off the mortgage. Could you have potentially made a little bit more if you left it? Maybe.

We don't know.

We just don't know what's going to happen. And so not owing people money is always going to put you in a better position. >> I was going to say that usually when people come when they have times of distress, the number one thing they think about is their home. They want to keep their home and their family safe.

That's it, right? I mean, you've been on

this earth 57 years. So, you know, when the moment comes if somebody loses their job or you're unsure about a paycheck or a health scare, those are the things you think of. You want to keep your family safe. You want to make sure your home is safe. Right.

>> Right. >> So, here you have it. >> And think about this, too. >> Ultimate security. >> When you pay off that mortgage, it lowers your monthly expenses forever, doesn't it? >> Yes. By $1,800, >> which means you need less in retirement than you did previously to cover your expenses. payment.

>> Y'all killing me. >> I hate to use logic. I'm trying to hit you at every angle, Teresa.

>> Here's the thing. I think your financial adviser is a better salesperson than your husband. That's what it comes down to. They're more persuasive.

>> I was looking at the math and the math made sense to me and we've been with her for a long time and her numbers have been pretty, you know, the numbers been solid recently. And >> I'm not saying she's a bad person. And I'm just saying that people tend to follow they they tend to follow the incentive whether they're sometimes realizing it or not.

>> That's all I'm saying. >> Agreed. >> I agree. The bad news is I lost the argument. The good news is I don't have to listen to Dave says. Dave says Dave says >> I love this so much. Hey, call us back when you're completely debtree. Let us know if you like it or not. >> Now you got to listen to George says George says George says yeah. I'm just telling you what I what I have done and what I would do. And so I don't tell people to do things that I wouldn't do.

And I paid off my mortgage at a very young age cuz I even though I could have made, man, you could have made XYZ in the market over those next 30 years if you hung on to a low, I didn't care cuz life happened. And my wife wanted to stay home. And guess what? She could do it cuz we didn't have a mortgage payment. And so you got to think about the reality of life on top of yes, some

of the logic, some of the math, some of the variables there. But it's a fun discussion. We're having fun with you. I'm so proud of you guys. You're multi-millionaires. It's a moot point either way. You're doing great. Laura is up next in Portland. What's happening, Laura? Get right to the question. We're up against the clock.

>> Okay. Should I sell my house or not? We bought it last February 2024. Um, we

owe421,000 on it. Um, I could make about 50,000

according to the realtor if I sold it for $494.95.

Our payment is actually 37%

of our take-home. My husband makes $145,000 a year gross. Um, we after insurance and

401, all that, our take-home is $8,822

a month. We have a total of $17,877

in debt after all of our expenses. We

have for the month about $4,000 left over. I feel that our mortgage payment

is just too out of it's just too much.

It's way over the 25%. Um,

>> but you factored in investing, didn't you? >> So, if you just looked at after tax income but then took out these other deductions, >> you might be okay. >> It'd probably look closer to 30%.

>> Right.

>> Um, yeah. So what I just said exactly

what goes into our account after like >> Yeah. >> So that's after insurance. Okay. So likely insurance is coming out of his check that you >> healthare investing all of that. It feels tight looking at the parameter. So I want to free you from that. Nothing is on fire here. You guys have an incredible income. I would be aggressive at cleaning up this debt and then getting an emergency fund back in place.

But I you're not in a place where I would say you got to go sell the house today. Laura, you're in a real pickle. I

think you're doing better than you think. >> Mhm. >> I have like I put $1,000 on something

and after everything I have like $50 till next payday.

>> That sounds like a budgeting issue. Are you guys budgeting together?

>> We I just got the Every Dollar app and I'm just kind of confused.

>> We'll coach you on that. Jump on there.

You get the premium one. If not, we'll gift it to you. You can jump on a 10-minute one-on-one coaching call with an Every Dollar pro on our team. They'll help you overcome the obstacles you're facing with budgeting.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Let's go outside the studio for a second because we've got some special guests in the lobby on the debtree stage. Kyle and Emily are here to share their story.

What's up, guys? >> Hey, how are you? >> Where are you guys from? >> Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.

>> Love it. And you uh traversed the terrain to be here in Nashville, Tennessee for the debtfree scream. How much did you guys pay off? >> We paid off $150,000.

>> Nice. >> How long did that take?

>> 26 months. >> Wow, that's aggressive. Okay. What was the range of income during this time?

>> So, we started at 130,000 and ended at

90,000. >> Okay. Somebody stayed home.

>> I knew it.

>> Baby time. >> Yep. >> I knew baby time.

>> Wow. Oh my gosh. It's baby.

>> Hey, if you're watching on YouTube, uh you need to cuz that's one cute baby.

Cute baby. Wow. >> Okay, that's the best reason to have a dip in income right there. And uh debtree in the process. What kind of debt was this? >> That was our house. >> I knew it. You guys are amazing.

>> Wow. >> You guys, if you're not watching on YouTube, this couple looks like they might be 22 at most.

>> They're so young. 24 and 25

>> with a paid for house. Okay. What caused you guys to be so weird at such a such a young age? Who hurt you?

Who caused this trauma to get you guys debtree in your early 20s?

>> I don't think anybody caused us trauma.

I think we were looking for peace. So,

um, we solved for that by getting rid of all of our bills, simplifying our life, and, uh, ultimately following Christ.

So, we put him first in our life. And >> that's amazing. So, how did you get connected to the Ramsay stuff?

>> Um, well, Kyle actually found it first.

Uh, but he showed me John's show, uh,

the Dr. John DeLooney show and that's kind of how I got segueed into Ramsay.

Um, but Kyle was the one who really found the Ramsay show first. >> Yeah. So, I run a lawn lawn and landscape company. So, when I was outside working, I needed something kind

of positive to listen to. So, I stumbled upon Dave and uh I started following the principles and it it it paid off.

>> That is incredible. Okay. So, you're like you weren't like a financial peace baby. Your parents didn't instill this in you. You have some common sense principles. It sounds like you were not in crippling consumer debt at any point in your life. >> No. >> Did you go to college? >> Yeah. So, I started I went to school for a year and racked up 22 grand in debt

and then decided that wasn't for me. So,

I left, started the company, um finished

at community college, my associates in business management, and then um used

the business to pay off the 22,000 in debt. >> That's incredible. >> Wow. >> So, now you're doing that. You're you're the income provider for the family with this lawn care business. Emily's at home with the baby, right? >> This is a good life with a paid for house. Okay. What's the house worth?

>> It's worth $250,000.

Amazing. >> Wow. And how much do you guys have in the nest egg? You guys been saving?

>> Uh not too too much. Um we're probably

right around >> 30. That's great. Yeah. You've been busy with this house. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you're on the path to become baby steps millionaires. My guess is by 30 you guys are going to be there >> at this rate. because now you got your income freed up. It's your greatest wealth building tool. >> So the the world is your oyster. I'm so proud of you guys. >> So exciting. >> What was the hardest part over that 26 months?

>> Um honestly,

God has just blessed us so much. I feel like when bumps would come into the road, he would just provide. Um whether that was someone just giving us like a random financial gift. Uh I don't know.

I just God just provided so much throughout the journey. Mhm.

>> That's awesome. >> Yeah. >> So, the most important question then is how are you going to celebrate?

>> Um, well, I actually took my mom to Florida for a weekend, so that was funny. >> Just your mom, not him.

>> Well, with with a baby at home, we

didn't want to leave him overnight. First time.

>> Um, but he's getting ready to take his dad to Florida, too.

>> Yeah. >> So, who were your biggest cheerleaders?

>> Um, maybe your dad was a big cheerleader. Yeah. Um, >> and honestly, you guys, like listening to you guys, we're happy to be cheerleading you guys. That's amazing.

So, how does it feel to be completely debtree, especially at 24, 25, you're

like, this is crazy. >> Yeah, it feels great. It feels great. We have more more freedom to give. Um, we have more freedom to spend on little things. Just when we're out, we can just grab something extra if we want to.

Yeah. >> Um, >> was this a secret? Do your friends know about this? >> Uh, I mean, now they know. They do now.

They do now. Uh, but honestly, we weren't telling a ton of people. Not for any reason. Just >> now they're going to be asking you.

They're, "Can you tell me more about this Ramsey stuff?" Like, >> it's going to be in their algorithm now feeding them videos. >> This is not normal behavior, guys. This is really amazing. >> I love this.

So, what what would you tell that young newlywed couple out there who's gone, "Well, we got to just get a big house. We got to get a car. We just take on the payment. We We can't save.

We got the student loans." How would you encourage them?

even if it's like a $400,000 mortgage or more, just stay within your means, buy what you can afford. You don't need to get the biggest best thing that you can that you can spend money on. Um try not to finance anything. Uh and if you if you get a mortgage, pay it off as quick as you can. >> Wow. >> What was your interest rate?

>> Uh 5.75%.

>> Wow. >> Knock that thing out. >> Sure did. Was it did you get it 26 months ago? Like was it that you just got the mortgage and immediately decided we're paying it off? >> March of 23 we got it and paid it off in >> Holy cow. This >> Wow. >> So the bigger question is how do you get a spouse on board like that from day one? Were you guys aligned on finances before marriage? >> Yep. Y >> I think it was like the second date we were talking about finances and uh kids

and everything. So just right from the get-go we realized that we were aligned.

Um, and honestly, I think that would be the biggest piece of advice is to get on

the same page with your spouse. I couldn't imagine doing it >> without. It's amazing what happens when you're going in the same direction instead of pulling each other in two different directions. I don't want to.

And I had to drag her on board. 26 months, you guys are debtree for the rest of your life. >> Oh my goodness. I'm so proud of you guys. You're an inspiration to us and to many out there in the lobby and many watching and listening at home. So, thank you for making the trip to be here to celebrate with us. >> Thank you. >> You ready to do this thing? I >> think so. >> I think so. >> Okay, we've got Kyle and Emily from Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.

150,000 paid off. That's the mortgage in

26 short months, making 130 down to 90

so that Emily could stay home with that sweet baby. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 All glory to God, we're debtree.

So sweet. There it is. They're even

aligned in their pitch, the tone, the words. I mean, this is a couple >> everything. Lock step, baby. >> Two peas in a pod.

>> Yeah. >> I love to see this. It's amazing what happens, Jade, when you have that alignment early on in a marriage. And it's why we fight for this when people call in and we say, "Combine your finances, combine your life, combine your goals, and see what happens." >> Shared goals, shared effort, shared intensity, all of it.

>> Exactly. Yes. >> They're still hanging on to the mortgage, hanging on to the loans, not aligned what we're going to do with our money. >> Yeah. >> And look at the options and flexibility they have, too. When they have that margin, she decides, "Hey, I want to stay home." Yeah, absolutely. We can afford that. The math checks out. This is our goal that we're both aligned on.

Go for it. >> Yeah. They're unstoppable. Totally unstoppable, I tell you.

>> Very inspiring. >> It is inspiring. Oh man. Um, >> social question. >> Yeah, let's hit. What do you got for me today? I'm a little nervous. Depending on depending on which platform, I kind of get nervous. >> There's one on here that's specifically for me. >> Okay, let's hear it.

>> I'm deciding if I want to answer it. Okay, Jade, what what change made the biggest impact on crushing your student loans? >> Okay, so how much student loans did you guys have? >> Uh, it was 280,000 of student loans. Um,

and the biggest impact on crushing my student loan debt was the realization that no one else is going to pay it.

Like the realization of going, "Okay, there's no more deferment. There's no more putting it aside. There's no more forbearance. There's no, you know, >> no more $10 words. >> No. Yeah. Nothing. >> The government's not coming for you." Yeah. >> On the white horse. >> Yeah. And so the biggest impact was realizing I get to decide who I want to be in this scenario. I can be a person who is bowed about it or I can be a person who is waiting to be rescued by a hero that doesn't exist. The hero is me.

>> Oh, that's so beautiful. And that's I think the heart behind this. Yes, I'm super happy they paid off their house, but really behind that is they have agency over their life. >> Yeah.

>> They don't owe people money. They feel invincible cuz they know, hey, if we can pay off 150 grand in 26 months, what can't we do financially? >> Oh, so good. They're unstoppable, I tell you.

Yeah. At 23. I mean, this is just what are they going to do the rest of their life? Just sitting around and watch the prices, right?

>> No, it's better. >> So much better than that. Especially with that sweet baby. Congrats, guys.

This is the Ramsay Show.

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Our

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scripture of the day, Proverbs 3:3.

Let love and faithfulness never leave you. Bind them around your neck. Write them on the tablet of your heart. Then you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man. And in a wild

transition, Taylor Swift said, "No matter what happens in life, be good to people. Being good to people is a wonderful legacy to leave behind." >> Oo, I like that. >> I mean, I'll amen that, Taylor.

>> That's like the what is it? Uh, it's nice to be important, but it's much more important to be nice. >> Oh, I never heard that. >> Have you heard that? >> I like that one. >> That's a good one. All right. I'll credit Jade Waraw with that quote. All right, Anony's up next in Ohio. What's

going on, Anthony? How can we help?

>> Hi. Uh, thanks George and Jade for taking my call. Um, I was calling because, uh, my wife and I are, um, our oldest, uh, son is getting ready to start school and we are back and forth on if we would like to homeschool or send him to public school >> and we get to decide.

>> Just looking for advice. We're we're kind of split down the middle, both of us. Uh just looking for some outside perspective as well. >> Okay.

>> Okay. So p it's not private school so there's not like a price tag attached to it. It's just do we want them going to public school or do we want them to have the >> education? Does homeschool mean one of us has to stay home and forego income that is currently there?

>> Yeah. So so that's kind of one of the things that we're hung up on. So my wife has been a stay at home mom since uh our oldest was born. He's five.

Um we've been living off of my income. Um, I just kind of stumbled upon you guys a few weeks back and I I really want to start to try to get aggressive with paying down debt and I think um, you know, with him going to public school and and we have a daughter as well that'll be starting school um, next year. So, you know, them going to school that'll free up some of her time to, you know, add some additional income and get more aggressive with our debt. >> So, what would be Okay, so we kind of understand why it could be good for public school.

What was the homeschool argument? Was this a values thing or just convenience? >> Yeah, kind of that. Yeah, I mean, so so she's she's more on the homeschool side and I'm, you know, it's kind of like a percentage.

I'm like 6040 public and she's like 6040 home. Uh we've been praying about it, just trying to figure out, you know, which way we should go. But um she's more on along the lines of like she doesn't think our 5-year-old son should be on the same schedule as me going to school for seven hours or eight hours a day. >> Okay, got you.

You know, >> I understand that. >> Yeah. She wants to kind of kind of like let them ease into it, wake up on their own time, you know. Okay.

Not spend eight hours, more like three hours a day doing doing school work. >> Understood. So, go back to the financial side. Tell us more about your financial picture right now.

Do you guys have debt? What do you have saved?

>> Yeah, so we do have debt. Um, not a crazy amount. So, we have outside the mortgage, we have uh about $45,000 in

car loans between two vehicles. Um, and then we have about $5,000 in credit card debt >> and our mortgage is about 160.

>> Okay. So, the cars there's it's it's kind of one of these things where there's a way to solve for the financial side of it. I mean, if you guys really wanted to do the homeschool thing while still accomplishing the financial side, then it comes down to these two cars.

you know, maybe. >> What are you making?

>> Uh, I earn 120 gross a year.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, a lot of it's tied up there. Is there one of those that you could downsize?

>> Uh, yeah, potentially. So, I've been kind of tossing around the idea of selling my truck. Uh, that's the larger of the two. >> What is it? >> Um, it is >> it's a it's a 2020 Chevy Silverado. Uh,

we owe about 30 on it.

>> 30? Yeah. Yeah, I mean there there's a big chunk right there. >> Are you underwater on it? Could you sell it for what it's worth or more?

>> Uh, probably about what it's worth. I I don't think I'm too much underwater on it. I just bought it last September.

>> Do you have any money saved anywhere?

>> Um, not really. We got about $2,000 and

I'm thinking about what I should do with that thousand since I just started listening to you guys to uh get it down to a,000. >> So, if you sell the truck, you still need another vehicle, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. So, um, yeah, I mean, I I

drive an hour one way to work.

>> Um, so we defin I would definitely need a vehicle. And then, you know, for her just doctor's appointments and various different things. And she also does we do earn a little bit of additional income. She has a a photography business that doesn't earn a crazy amount. It's mainly around the holidays. Uh, it's probably about 10,000 a year.

>> What would she do full-time if she did go back to work?

So, that's another great question. Um, I think it would need to be something that's somewhat flexible because I think we would still want her to be off during the summers to be at home with the kids because that's how it's been for the last, like I said, five years.

>> Um, >> so probably something in a restaurant. I mean, she did that when we first got together for a while. Um, you know, just

where she could really focus in on her photography and try to expand that a little bit. Um, we don't really need to invest any money into that to grow it.

So, that's something that we could probably go down as well. >> Here's the thing. I think that you I mean, this is just my my thought when I look at your numbers. I think that you guys should be totally fine on $120,000

a year. Like, that's your salary. The problem is you guys need to live on less than you make. That's that's what it is.

So, although her going back and picking up a job for a while could help you pay off this debt a little faster, I think really what you guys need to do is really lock down the budget to get this thing done because you guys having a

$120,000 shovel to work on this debt is pretty decent if you sell the truck. And I think that will allow you to still clear it in in the time period that we >> you could be debtree by the end of the year. >> Yeah. But you got to sell the truck >> and then get a fully funded emergency fund.

That's going to put you guys in a really solid place for her to stay home, homeschool if that's what she wants to do. And hey, if she doesn't like it, you can always turn back to public school. If they go to public school and they hate it and they're not thriving there, she can always pull them out and home school. So nothing is fatal here.

Yep. Absolutely. Yep. I I keep telling her that I, you know, after listening to you guys for the last few weeks, I I really just want to get all the the stress out of our life and just make peaceful decisions and be able to make this decision no matter, you know, if we were debtree, this decision would probably be a little bit different. I don't know. >> You might not even be talking about it.

It might have just naturally happened that you homeschool them, >> right? Yep. Okay.

>> I love it, man. Yeah. Best of luck on the journey. And cut up those cards. You don't need those things where you make 120 grand. We don't need the points. We don't need the possibility of debt. We need some peace in our life right now so we can create some stability for our family. Appreciate the call. Kelly is up next in St. Louis. What's going on, Kelly? >> Hi. Oh my goodness, I'm so excited.

Okay, so we are in baby step two and I'm

looking forward to baby step three. Um, we only have about $5,000 left in baby step two. So, I'm looking forward.

Can we do like Okay, so it's three to six months and can we do like three or

fourish, park it in a high yield savings and let it do the rest or do I need to like do I need to shoot for six months?

>> That's a good question. I actually really like this question. Um, so there's a couple of things to consider with baby step three. Um, first off,

just always remember that it's your kind of your basic budget. A lot of people think it's like three to six months of income, like their full whatever they make in a month, and it's not that. It's if you were to whittle your budget down to kind of emergency mode, you know, obviously your four walls, daycare, insurance, like it's not your budget with all the bells and whistles built in. So, that's the first thing to think of.

And then second, uh determining between 3 to 6 months, yeah, you want to look at a couple of things. Are you a dual income household? Because if you are, then yeah, there's a little bit less risk there. If one person loses their income, there's still another income coming in.

So you could look at something like that as you're determining, is it 3 months, is it 6 months. Other thing you could determine is your health. Like are you guys in good health? Does anybody have chronic issues that are keeping them in and out of the hospital or could you know take away their income?

So those are the factors to determining if you're going to set it at three and like you said, let the interest maybe do the rest over time. >> It would take years for the interest to do the work cuz I mean, look at this. 15 grand >> in a high yield savings, you're going to make 500 bucks a year. >> Yeah. But I'm just saying at that point >> I'm just saying at that point you would be okay if it were just 3 months, right?

If it two incomes, solid jobs, everybody's healthy, right? Um I'll be honest with you, George, and you throw a flag. I just tend to air on the side of 6 months kind of regardless. I don't know the way the world is. I just like 6 months. I mean, that being said, I wouldn't let it stop you from moving on to baby step four or 3B.

>> Yeah. Is the next step for you trying to save a down payment or invest?

>> Uh, no. The next step is pay off our mortgage. >> Oh, great. >> Right. >> Yes. And we only got to be investing 15% on it. >> So, >> you got to be investing 15% first. Any money beyond that goes to college and paying down the mortgage. So, yeah, if you wanted to get to three or four and then begin the other steps and maybe slowly add to that emergency fund, that would be okay. But again, to Jade's point, man, there's nothing like having a six-month emergency fund ready to battle whatever comes at you.

>> It feels good.

Yeah. [Music]

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## 233. There Are No Shortcuts To Building Wealth | October 21, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:02:37 |

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[Music] brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal's broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshot. Next to me, Rachel Cruz, taking calls from you guys for the next couple hours about your life and your money. You can get involved and we hope that you do. So, in the meantime, we're going to Matt who's in North Carolina.

What's up, Matt?

>> Hey, how are y'all? >> Good. How can we help today?

>> Well, uh, my wife and I have been looking at our numbers, uh, just the debt that we have, and we wanted to see what you guys would recommend. Now, I've got about 60,000 in just various debts

aside from my mortgage, and we just want to figure out how to get rid of those in a systematic way. >> I love that. Uh, do you want to list those 60,000 of debts out for us? Like the type of debt and how much each one is worth? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I can do that. >> Great. >> So, I've got about 900 uh for a cell

phone.

>> Got about 1,900 um for medical bills.

>> Mhm. >> Uh I have a truck that's about 29,000.

>> I've got um our family van that's about 9,600.

>> Mhm. and a credit card that's about 11,000 and then a loan from my family for about

12,000. >> Wow. How old are you guys?

>> I'm 33 and my wife is 30.

>> When did you guys kind of tally everything up, Matt, and just realized, okay, here's here's where we are. Is that was that a recent conversation with you and your wife or is this something that you guys have been you you've known? been wanting to do a budget, but it's been my fault cuz I've been I've haven't I say I've been busy, but I could have made time. But we did yesterday, actually.

>> Oh, yeah. So, was yesterday the first time you saw all these numbers together in one place?

>> Yeah. For a good little while. Yeah.

>> Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Um, so what were you thinking do when you saw it?

What did you think? Did you think it was more than what you would have guessed or was it pretty spot-on?

Yeah, I mean it was around what I was thinking and then I was like what have I done? What am I doing? >> Yeah, I was going to ask the same thing. What caused Do you know what caused this? It's for you. Does this feel like an income thing or does it feel like an overspending thing? Which by the way, I didn't ask what is you guys' income?

>> So, well, I started a new job. Um, I'm an insurance agent now. And I make about a h 100,000 um now. I've gained about 20,000 since last year. I started at 80.

Mhm. >> Um but it was I was just looking at monthly stuff cuz I' I'd wanted to get a newer vehicle cuz my other one was wearing out and it was paid for. I should have kept it. >> Yeah. >> But um it's just we're both we're both spenders and we realized that yesterday and we're like, you know, we're wasting too much money. >> What about your wife? Is she working outside the house?

>> No, she stays at home. We have three children under three.

>> Oh, Lord help you. Okay.

>> Got a house full, Matt. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, so it sounds like typical lifestyle creep. You got a $20,000 raise and you're just like, "Well, I can afford this payment. I can afford this and this is good. We'll just kind of keep going and enjoy that $20,000 of margin." And then it turns out >> $20,000 in debt, more so.

>> Mhm. >> Yep. Yeah. So, I I would suggest I mean, I know you're kind of new to this.

You just laid this out the other day, but I'm going to suggest the debt snowball, which is we what we suggest to everybody, uh, which is you're listing the debt smallest to largest. The method is you pay minimum payments on everything so that you don't get behind because if you get behind then it really gets out of control. So make sure you're ma making min minimum payments on everything but all of your extra margin uh is going to go towards the smallest debt with a vengeance like you're going very very quickly and so as much margin as you can find which leads to my next question.

I'm assuming you don't have any savings lying around anywhere. Is there any extra money that we should know about stocks?

It varies. It's XRP, so it'll be $270 one day and the next day, you know, it'll be up or it'll be lower. And I've got some in Nvidia. It's not much. It's about $210 worth. Um, >> okay. So, just mentioned the mortgage,

too, on the house. So, I was going to say that. Forgot to say that. >> Yeah. Just tell me what the mortgage is, by the way. >> 218. >> 218. And what do you pay every month for that?

>> 1628. Okay.

>> Matt, is your job What do you do for a living?

Uh, I sell um just auto, home, lot,

>> insurance. That's right. That's what you were saying. Okay. Yeah. >> Is there um margin for overtime in that

position? Whether that's getting like more like working more just to get more commissions and more accounts or from like a salary perspective even, what would that look like?

Well, see, since I'm 1099, I I I was given a book of business when I got here, but it's my job to, you know, I can grow it as quick as I can because I mean, I work 247 if need be. So, >> Yep. Yep. Okay. Okay. Cuz the way I'm

looking at this, I mean, it's um added up close to 60,000 >> and you're making a h 100,000 and that's probably before tax >> and health insurance and all of that.

So, um yeah. Are you contributing anything to um retirement at all?

>> No. >> No. Okay, perfect. Yeah. So, what Jade's saying, I mean, that's it. I mean, you know, Matt, the the problem is going to

be you and your wife. I mean, you know what I mean? Because you're going to have to change the way you've been handling and viewing money like a 180.

Like you you said, we're both spenders, which I appreciate the self-awareness. I get it. I'm a spender. Like, I understand. Mh. >> And so you're going to have to do things that you've never done before. You're going to have to say no to yourself in places that you've always just said yes cuz of course we'll just go out to you. Of course we'll just do this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Where things didn't seem like a big deal. Everything's a big deal now. It kind of feels like everything's on fire.

Even though you guys are going to be fine. It's not like, okay, we know bankruptcies around the corner. It's not that. But the sense of urgency like what Jade was saying earlier >> is going to be have to be notched up like 10,000 notches for you guys

specifically. You know what I mean? Because we talked to some people and they're >> um they're natural savers. It's okay.

But when you have two spenders, which again is not a bad thing. It's just how you guys are wired. This is going to just take that much more of a discipline. And so yeah, paying it off.

But I'm like, "Yeah, get the cell phone out. Do the get the medical debt. Have some lofty goals that if you >> even if you worked extra at a different job, whatever is more lucrative for you to make extra money. I don't know if that's working more at just like >> the insurance job to get more accounts or more.

>> Yeah. And and if you can up it, Matt, I'm not kidding. You know, I mean, people are driving or doing like Uber Eats and making a thousand easy. So like >> that's your that's your low bar.

>> When you plug these numbers, have you plugged this into an every dollar budget, Matt?

>> No, not yet. Um, got the We had that app, then we stopped using it cuz I slacked off on and that was the problem.

Okay. >> But, um, I I wanted to ask real quick before I forgot. Um, I did have an offer

for a dealership to buy my truck for

about 25 or so and I have 29,000 on it.

Do y'all think it'd be a good idea to just go ahead and sell it? >> Yes. But not >> Okay. >> Do a private sale because if the dealer's giving you 25, then private sale would get 29, I bet.

>> Mhm. >> Mhm. But the key is, now I don't know how long you guys can go with just the van, but the key is you're going to have to stack up some cash, right, to get something in the meantime to get you to and from work. And you don't have to spend a lot on it.

Maybe you spend 6,000 bucks on it, but just know that, yeah, for a while you guys are going to be a onecar family, which that could be a challenge with three under three, but all things are possible. So >> yeah, I mean there's there's families here that the you know I mean honestly the wife drops them off at work and they go you and Sam were a one car family for >> for a decade.

>> it is doable Matt doable. So it's just again it's going to your life is just going to look different for a period of time and then you guys can get back and enjoy the fruits of your labor and be some great responsible spenders and have fun. Like that's not the bad that's not bad or wrong but you just got to do it in the right order and you guys went out of order spending more than you make. So Yeah, homework is Every Dollar.

[Music]

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[Music]

in Columbia, South Carolina. Samantha's on the line. What's up, Samantha?

>> Hey, Jade. How are y'all? Thank you for taking my call. >> You bet. How can Rachel and I help?

>> Yeah. So, my husband and I are 11 months into Baby Step 2. We're putting like three or 4 thousand a month toward our debt. >> Way to go. We paid off four. Yeah, we paid off four credit cards and one of four student loans. >> Oh my gosh. Good for you guys.

>> Thank you. So, the last three student loans are kind of our big fish. Um, and

we were on track to get those done. We have about a 100,000 left, so we're on track to get those done in about two years. Um, but my husband is a federal

employee and with the government shutdown, we are experiencing a hold in

his paycheck. So, about half of our

monthly income right now is being held.

>> Dang. How much is that?

>> Uh, 5,400 takehome right now

>> out of out of 11,000 takehome um

>> a month. Yeah. >> So, we're just kind of trying to get by.

But I guess in the future to be prepared for this again, I was wondering if this would be a weird situation where we maybe um go to baby step three and save an emergency fund and then come back and hit those last three student loans hard.

>> Um I don't know if I would do that, but I think I would pause baby step two right now. I probably I would not be I mean you guys don't even have Yeah. You don't have money to put extra, right?

>> Cuz you were putting 4,000 margin.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. Are you guys able to stay current with all the bills, all your bills, like even housing and all of that?

>> Yeah, it's going to be it's going to be tough for the next month. Um, >> but I'm just really thinking in the future if this happens again. That's kind of where I was going with that. Um, so as of now, yes, everything's been halted. We're making minimum payments on everything >> um since middle of October, you know, two weeks ago. Um, yeah, the I guess to be prepared. >> Yeah, I hear you. Um, yeah, I hear you totally. But really, the only time that

we would suggest that is if there's something in the immediate future that you're certain of, like, oh, there's going to be like we we have people call like, okay, they're laying us off in 3 months. We would say like, sure, pause everything. Pile up an emergency fund because it's happening. Or even a health situation, you know, like there's a family member or child that's sick.

We would say, okay, get get some get some funds in place because, you know, that's going to be some ongoing challenges. But I hear and again we're in the middle of a government shutdown. So it's harder for me to say this to you to be like we don't know if it's going to happen again. But it is a question of like I don't know when it is.

If it is who knows and because of that uncertainty you almost would think I would want an emergency fund because of that. But I would actually say because it is uncertain you don't know what's going to happen. So I would rather get this debt cleaned up y >> faster >> because of it. So that that's what I would suggest.

There's more piece there because if you think about it just in terms of the numbers, let's pretend that instead of paying off the $100,000 of debt, you stacked up, I don't know, $20,000, right?

all the payments that you have to pay along with your normal month-to-month budget. So, you're still going to clip through savings a lot faster because you've got this extra debt there.

Whereas, if you said, "I'm going to focus on paying off my debt first," then if it rains and pours and maybe you have a little bit less saved because it's, you know, you haven't had as much time, your lifestyle is still paired way, way way way down, right? So, you're not having to pay debt payments on top of whatever it takes to live. So, I really I get where you're coming from, but at the end of the day, I think there's more peace in having no debt and payments when things like this strike versus having it's almost like insult to injury when you have to use hard saved money to pay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, >> so no, we would still say probably be gazelle intent, Samantha.

>> Yeah. H sorry you're going through that.

Hopefully that gets cleaned up soon. You know, it's I've had so many people message me on Instagram and thankfully more on the positive end of, you know, they're they're probably three years from where Samantha is because they're like, "Oh my gosh, if we didn't have an emergency fund and we weren't used to living on less than we make and the government shutdown happened because they've lost, you know, they're like, "We're good. Like, we we have six months saved, like we we're able to we're able to like even squeeze our lifestyle down and we're okay with that because they've walked through paying off debt, you know?" So there's like the the saving grace of why to do this.

As fast as possible because if and when life happens. Yes. You're set, you know.

>> That's right. And if you know you do have a job that has the propensity for layoffs or things like that, it is good to kind of know. It's like having an emergency plan. Do you know what I mean?

Like if there's a fire, you know where the exits are. It's the same thing if you're in a job where, hey, I kind of know like a layoff could happen from time to time or in the case of a government, a shutdown could happen from time to time. And knowing, okay, when that happens, here's what we do. Here's what our budget looks like.

These are the things we cut out. This is how we live. And we know that that's kind of our our plan. >> But it could go four or five years without it.

Yeah. >> You know what I mean? And you don't need it. >> That's right.

That's right.

Let's hit the phone line again. We've got Sean in Washington DC. Maybe he can tell us something. >> Help us out Sean. >> What's up, Sean?

>> Hi. Good morning. Oh, afternoon ladies.

Thank you for taking my call.

>> You're welcome. I'm sorry I said it was a he. I like Sean as a girl's name, too.

>> Thank you. So, um, just a little background about me. I am in my early 30s. I live just outside of DC, but on the Merlin side. Um, I don't have any kids. I'm single. I just received a really good job offer for my first six six figure job. So, I'll be making $100,000 soon.

>> Congratulations. And >> thank you so much. So, my question is, I do want to buy a a house next year. Um, I just renewed the lease on my current apartment. I'm currently paying $1,300 a month for my apartment. Next year, I do

want to purchase a house, but I have student loan debt. That's about $18,000.

So, my question is, do I just save up for the down payment on the house or just pay off the student loan since I'll finally be making six figures now?

>> Listen, I love that you're making six figures. I think that that is so exciting and I'm happy for you. That's really a milestone. Um, if I were in your shoes today, Sean, my biggest priority would be twofold. Number one, I'd be like, I'm getting these student loans out of my life once and for all.

They've been around long enough. I make, you know, >> 18. You can do this. Yes.

>> I make six figures. I'm going to knock them to the curb as fast as possible.

Then, if you're really considering home ownership, let's talk about this in in real talk with which is what you'll really need. It would be foolish for you, Sean, to just roll out and buy a house with no savings. Can you agree with that? Because once you buy a house, everything's on you. The air is on you, the roof is on you, the yard is on you, something breaks, it's on you, right?

So, the better way to enter that would to make be to make sure you have 3 to six months saved. Could you agree with that?

>> Yes, that's more reasonable. And I have looked into firsttime home buyer programs and one of the stipulations I found was a program that offered to pay off my student loan debt but it would not give me an additional funding for let's just say the down payment.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, a lot of those programs Sean are I mean honestly towards people that are broke. I mean like and trying to get them in a house. And so >> right now I would say for you yeah those probably look appealing because you're like I can get this faster. But I think this one-year timeline that's just self-imposed, right? No one's forcing you to buy a home next year. You just want to, right?

>> Yes, of course. >> Yes, I know. 100%. And I don't want that for you. >> Yes, 100%. And I think the new income has got you excited to be like, "Oh my gosh, I can actually start doing making some big moves." >> But if you start making moves out of order, it causes way more stress down the line. And so, yeah, I'm with I'm with Jade. I would be I'd pay off the 18,000. I'd save up an emergency fund.

And for you, honestly, Sean, it could be three months. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah. you have a solid job, you don't have anyone dependent upon your income like kids wise or a spouse or something, you know, like you're in a good spot. Three months would be totally fine with me. And then save at least 5%

for a down payment because what those things are going to force especially down payment forces you out of these programs of what you're talking about.

>> Um because again, they're going to have terrible um they have adjustable rate mortgages. I mean, they have terrible interest rates. Usually they they lock you into something. Um and it and it's not worth it long term. I want you free of everything. any program, any debt, all of it, Sean. Um, so yeah, getting out of debt, an emergency fund first and then and so that may pump the brakes. I mean, maybe nine months, Sean, to Yeah.

>> 12 months maybe for you to to do this.

But >> well, I mean, I I will I will interject this. If you can at 5% down, if you can

get a payment that's 25% or less of your take-home, yes. But if you have to bump up that down payment because you don't want to be more than 25% of your takehome, and that's talking HOAs, taxes, insurance, all of that in that payment. Uh, Sean, can't be more than 25% of your takehome or else you'll be calling us back. >> Yeah, maybe not next year, but maybe three years out.

>> Just do that math. >> The calculators on ramiesolutions.com, Sean, that you can use. Um, how much mortgage can I afford?

[Music]

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All right, we're continuing to take calls about your life and your money.

Tell us your situation. We've got Lewis in West Palm Beach, Florida doing just that. What's up, Lewis?

>> Hey guys, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking the call. I love you guys and everything that you do. >> Well, thank you so much.

Thanks for calling. So to keep it short, a pest control business, service business. We got through CO really, really well. And you know, got a big head, spread into five different cities, and we spread ourselves way too thin, but didn't realize it at the time.

>> Um, took a while, but we threw away all the money we had, allowed myself to get up to my guild and credit. Uh, any credit that was offered, we took it, trying to get through a cool phase that it wasn't a fade, it was just a bad setup. And ultimately, kind of last February realized, hey, uh, the the game is over, right? So, we sold off, you know, the the businesses that we could to get the investors their money back, and they were made whole.

So, during that time, obviously, like many, we're in a horrible spot, kind of rock bottom, you would say. And I I found Dave Ramsey and all the teachings you guys do and I should have probably sold the house, sold the expensive car, sold everything we own, bought it instead. I I just dialed back any expenses we had, no nights out, no, you know, kind of fun money, none of that.

And I said, "Let's give it two months to rebuild as strong as we can, as hardcore as we can, and see where we land." >> And it wound up working. We we've quadrupled in the last eight months, and now things are finally in a place where we feel better, and we know that we're going to a good place. >> Oh, great. Question. >> What a turnaround.

But my question is I felt super irresponsible for my family, for my childhood. Do we cut these things? Do we need to? And I'd just love to have a little more insight of, you know, how well, how how much should you trust yourself in a turnaround or when you realize you're making stupid decisions?

Go down to the basics. Like should we have cut, should we not? Because it could have very easily been 10 more months of of failing and then we would have done dug a deeper hole and god forbid, you know, we're never there again. But what are your thoughts on that guys?

Yeah, I hear what you're saying. Because you didn't cut certain things out of your lifestyle, if the business had not quadrupled, you still probably would be in a bad spot. >> Mhm. >> Yeah.

>> Is what you're thinking. Yeah. Do you know the motivation, Louis, of why you guys wanted to keep the house and the car? >> Um, my wife trusted me with a lot of the decisions, and that may be a good or a bad thing, but I didn't want to, first off, I didn't tell her how bad it really was, and maybe that was a bad idea, but I didn't want her to to face the music the way I was trying to privately.

And I said, "All right, let me see if we can get ourselves past this and and save her that hurt and and that, you know, that cuz she's been through enough." I thought, >> "Was any of that about you saving face

too if she didn't know the extent of it?" >> No, no, no. Not at all. If she knew, she'd still be there. She's amazing. I just didn't want to put her baby through any of that. >> I think the biggest thing here is understanding um wisdom that you've

learned going forward because there's a lot of things that got you into this mess. And I think that a lot of times when we come out on the other side of things, if we haven't really examined what it was that got us there in the first place or all of the things that got us there in the first place, yeah, there's the fear that can I trust my choices? Can I trust trust my judgment going forward? But if you've done the work of examining that and understanding why you did what you did and why you're not ever going to do that again, then you can have a little bit more confidence.

obviously with money. But then there was the secretive nature of keeping certain things from your wife. I think there's just a some behavior that going forward can't be the case. So I know if I were in your shoes, Louis, going forward, I would be completely transparent with your wife about money.

And make sure that you guys are both owning roles within how you're handling money. So it it can't all fall on you. It can't all fall on her, but together you guys are in this and understanding what's our main priority. Why are we building what we're building?

Why are we doing the things we're doing?

That's right. The house and the cars and all those things. >> Uhuh. Yeah.

The two things I would say, Louis, from like beyond just the nuts and bolts of the math side of what got you guys there, which I think you know, um but two things we run into a lot and I and I commend you. First of all, I just I applaud you for even asking the deeper questions because a lot of people will just kind of get through it and not really think through what got me here in the first place and >> what's going on within me because we're the ones handling the money. It's the people, right?

It's not the math and all of that. Like we're the ones making the decisions. And so understanding ourselves is really important. And so, um, I would say isolations and is negative.

No more isolation. It's kind of what Jade just said. And I think you isolated yourself from your wife >> and from the reality of what was going on. And you were just trying to do it yourself, which again, I commend you for doing it.

There's a lot of wives listening right now. They're like, I wish my husband would step up, but it was too extreme that way, you know, like you can't be isolated in it and and for your sake, Lewis, but also for the relational. There's so much to be said when a husband and wife work together as a team with their money that does far and far and above more than just the finances. So there's just something really big relationally that you you miss and you do it to protect her.

I hear you.

even just hurting, but it can it can continue to put a wedge a little bit because you feel like you have to hold a certain level of truth with her to protect her, but yet she's a grown woman, Louis. She's a grown-up. And so she has to be able to handle the reality of her situation, too. and you may feel the brunt of it because she gave you a lot of the responsibility, but she doesn't need to do that either.

She needs to say, "Louis, I'm so sorry that I put all of this on you. I have a functioning brain. I'm an adult and I'm going to have my strengths and weaknesses just like you do, but together as a team, we're going to sit down together as a married couple and lock arms and be a team." >> And then the second thing I would say, Louis, and >> I'm going very stereotypical here, so forgive me if I'm totally off base, but I'm going to put the dudes more in this category that I'm about to talk about.

And then I even see West Palm Beach. I see, you know, I see Florida and I see I know where you're going. >> Yeah.

>> Oh man. Yes. >> And so when you feel like I have to sell a car, a nice car, if >> that lifestyle, hello.

>> And then downgrade a house. Yes.

>> The ego is shot to the extreme. And again, stereotypically, I think guys feel this >> a little bit more. Like I think there's something about saving face like what you're saying. Um, so those are the two things I would watch, Lewis, next time from an internal perspective. Am I isolating myself?

>> And is my ego in charge or am I in charge? >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you think?

>> I think you guys are great. Um, >> well, thanks. >> For sure. And I I think there's there's something to to ponder and kind of sit on there on the side of the wife.

I think it was one of those things when rock bottom hit. I said, "Okay, cool. I think I can manage this and I don't need to put her through it." But you're right. maybe it would have been better to go through it together.

So there's there's a lot to chew on there >> and there is something to be said for I mean >> selling a house is a huge deal and if you felt like hey I'm going to ride this out for x amount of months and if I'm not here by you know if I get to that stopping point and it's not any better then I got to let go of the house right >> but if you made it there then it's great you got to keep the house so I don't know what did you do that or >> so I just to give slightly more context again I hate to take up too much time with other colleagues needing help as well.

It was, you know, when I was younger, I moved 30 times. We were super unstable, you know, as a as a family when I was younger. So, I just said, "Hey, it was absolutely no ego." I just didn't want my family to ever have to feel un totally fair. And it wasn't about the car or whatever, like, you know, yeah, I was dumb to buy a car, but, you know, for whatever reasons, it it was just about having stability, especially for a young child, and not having her love this home and make friends and a school and everything and her out and going out somewhere else.

So that was >> Listen, Louis, I think at the end of the day, you went through something and it was a learning experience for you and that is part of most of our stories, you know, >> and I'll say this, Dave says this a lot for himself. Um, because you sound very entrepreneurial. I mean, you're a very smart guy.

>> And dad says that a lot. And I think that could be another thing to think through because you kind of out earned it. You probably worked your tail off to get these businesses >> revenue to be able to cover up some of the mistakes. >> Yes, that's right. >> Um which in one way is fantastic because you know how to work and yes and you can bring in revenue and all of it but you can't out earn it. And so um that's a

little bit of the band-aid over the situation um is that you earn so much that you could get out of it which again one side of the coin that's fantastic but we got to deal we got to deal with the root issues of how we got there in the first place. um from the nuts and bolts and then from just the >> perspective of who we are as people and like checking ourselves because we can hold ourselves back a lot and make really stupid decisions um yeah based on what feels good and what we want in the moment and we all do it.

We've all made those mistakes but kind of tempering that side of it too. >> I agree and I do think that when you've hit a certain layer in your income which it sounds like Lewis has making those sacrifices it does hit different.

know, not hit that point yet. It's almost easier for that person to go, "Okay, yeah, I'm just going to take to the streets and work hard and sell my stuff than the person who's kind of been living that life." Then, yeah, you're right. Your ego does take a hit and that is tough, but it's good for you. It's good good medicine for the soul.

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Get it in the App Store or on Google Play right now. All right. Sebastian's in Richmond, Virginia.

>> Hey, how you doing today? >> Doing good. How can we help?

>> Um, well, I just had a couple questions.

So, a little bit about my situation. I'm actually a recent college graduate. I graduated technically in August and I've just landed my first uh big boy job, as

I would call it. So, I'm going to be making 70 grand.

>> Cool. Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Starting very soon here.

>> I am a associate research consultant for a real estate company. >> Oh, good for you. Great.

>> Yeah. So there just a couple questions and um so my plan going forward is they

have a 401k with no match and um so I'm

actually planning not to contribute to that. >> Okay. Okay. >> So my idea is I have a Roth IRA

currently. I have about 4K in it and I'm

thinking about doing about like 580

bucks a month into that so I can max it out, right? And then I want to save the

rest because I want to start right now I have about 20k in savings and completely debtree by the way as well. >> Good. >> And I want to get into house hacking

maybe mid maybe like June July next year

if I can. >> Okay. So let's talk about the investing part first. Um I would rather you invest

based off of a percentage than based off of a limit or a certain amount that you

want to spend. Okay. So, walking the baby steps, I don't know if you're familiar with it, but after you're out of debt, which you are, and after you've saved up 3 to 6 months of expenses, maybe you save up 3 or 4 months, whatever you decide. Have you done that yet?

Just asking. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, I have I have like 15K in a Roth IRA, like 2K in a savings account, and then um like 4K in a Roth IRA.

>> So, the the three to six months of expenses is noninvested. It's non-retirement. It's real. It's literally a rainy day fund, Sebastian, for if something were happen, if you lost your job, if you had an emergency, this is liquid money that you can get to.

So, I would suggest that needs to be your first order of business because here's what happens if you don't have it.

>> And you'll get penalized, too, for bringing it out early. >> Exactly. So, you need separate money.

Let's start on that first and just stack that up. You can do that fast with 70,000. It's just you. Then after that, Sebastian, 15% is the number we're looking for. Now, I I'm with you on maxing the Roth first because for you, that's the that's the better advantage since your 401k doesn't have a match.

But depending on what you have after you hit that m after you max out that Roth, if you still have money left to invest, yeah, then go ahead and throw it into the 401k. That's fine. But do it based off of percentage of your gross income, not just >> okay, >> you know. Yeah.

>> The number I gave was just because I think it's what like 7K a year is the max for me at this point. So >> yeah, 7 to eight in the Roth and then for you 15%. Yeah, it will be around 10,000. Yeah, you have to go.

You should be able to max it out with a couple of thousand left. And Jay's just saying put that 2 to 3,000 just in the 401k. Even if you're not getting the match, it's still a great retirement vehicle just to put that 15% and then if you want to do investing beyond that, then we can talk about the house hunting or house hacking thing. But yeah, the the Yeah, maxing out the Roth and then putting a couple of thousand more into the 401k every year is just a great starting baseline for you.

>> Yeah, that's amazing. So, what I'm thinking is because I'm currently living at home. So my idea was, you know,

purchase that first property, you know, as I'm moving out, right? So like when I have obviously the baby steps done and then I'm obviously investing and saving, right? The idea is to just kind of move out into that first house hack opportunity, which I'd hope to acquire sometime, >> which is what what do you when you're saying house hacking, what what what do you mean specifically?

>> Like you're living in one side, the other person's living in the other.

Yeah, I was probably going to do uh probably single family rent by room strategy. So, >> yeah. So, probably just purchasing a single family and then having a couple different tenants living in there with me. >> Here's the thing, though. I'm I I'm going to give you two words of caution.

Number one is let's say you do this, you've got to be able to cover it without them. So, for instance, let's say you you buy the house and the mortgage is a couple thousand, you know, 2500 a month. You've got to be able to cover that on your own to know that, hey, if for some reason these tenants don't pay >> or I can't get tenants. >> Yeah. Or I can't get tenants, it's not going to jack me because I can cover the mortgage. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, I 100% agree. And that's what I was kind of hoping to call about. Like I know kind of, you know, there's a little bit of caution with, you know, the Ramsy steps and whatnot around, you know, >> yeah, >> like leveraging yourself in real estate, but I'm kind of trying to figure out like to me there's no real difference between buying a single family home as a primary residence just for myself and then doing it as a house hack as well.

As long as at my baseline, I can cover that mortgage. >> Great. We're fine with that. >> There's more to it, though.

And that was going to be my second word of wise. Yeah. If you on the financial side, if you're doing what we said, sure. But just remember, this is your first entrance into home ownership and you're doing it with two or three other people strapped to your back.

So for the layman, like for the lay person, the the first time they buy a house is already stressful because they're realizing for the first time it's all on me. Yeah.

going to be counting on you if something happens with the AC, if something happens with the roof, if they get a leak in their bedroom, right? So, there's part of me, Sebastian, I think I I'm not mad at this idea, but there's part of me that wouldn't mind you if you did get the house. You hang out there for a minute before and just like get your bearings about you before you're just up and having all these people.

>> Yeah. Cuz I think it's just Okay. Yeah.

You got to paint reality, which is always hard to do if it's not been a reality. But what Jade's saying is because my my line of thought honestly, Sebastian, is that's great. You're a single guy. if that's what you want to do and you can cover it even if they don't pay and you're like listen I can make so much money off of doing this and I'm going to save here and do whatever whatever that's your prerogative if that's what you want to do but I'm telling you Sebastian when you start making you start going to work all day you're making your income you're coming home you know you're dating someone you're doing this and that you're going to get tire I think tired of the roommate situation if it's just to get extra money now if you're going for a goal to be like hey I really want to make an extra 20 grand this year.

>> and maybe there's like an end point in your mind. I don't know. But just the um the endless idea of it overall, I just

think you're going to look up and probably maybe a year, maybe less, maybe a little more, and be like, I'm a a

grown man. I'm a grown man and I work

and I pay my taxes and I want to come home to a house that I can I get to do what I want. >> It's clean. The kitchen is clean. you don't have to deal with roommates. Do you know what I'm saying? So, like just always remember that. But I think that's the line that I feel safe with you doing it is that you've already said I can cover the mortgage without anybody.

>> I'm going to just do it to make some extra money, maybe to hit a you know, maybe it's a goal or whatnot. So, so we're not against it. We just know >> I don't know. >> Just think we just want to encourage you to think about it from every angle that >> Yeah.

And I I definitely agree because I think I have because the end point for me is you know maybe house hack you know over over the course of five years or so four or five years maybe do it you know two or three times acquire multiple properties that way and then at that point I'll able I'll be able to get you know my own primary residence where whether it's whether I just want to rent somewhere like a condo or do whatever but I haven't thought that far ahead but the idea is of course I don't want to live with random people forever but >> right but even as you expand >> wealth building tool in this aspect it seems kind Like I mean there's there's there's two alternatives.

It's either do this or go out and just afford the mortgage on my own or go and rent and just throw money at the wall. >> The thing is >> so it kind of seems like the optimal idea to me.

>> Yeah. So that's that's that's the thing where I'm thinking of because you have some people who will say like you know just overlever yourself like crazy. Then you have Ramsley's side which is you know pay cash and >> so then you already know you got to pay cash. >> Don't put on the wrist Sebastian you're young.

You are you are you know going to the wall with all these ideas and it's a lot. >> But slow and steady wins the race over time. People that keep wealth they do it slow and steady.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio continuing to take your calls. So call in. The number is8825-5225

and we will do our best to get you on the show. I'm next to Rachel Cruz today.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Let's get into it.

We've got Kim in Memphis, Tennessee right down the road. What's up, Kim?

>> Hi. So glad to be talking to y'all. Um, my husband and I, we have combined finances and Christmas is coming up and

I want to know how to give and receive

gifts from your spouse when you have

combined finances.

>> I love this question. It's such a it's such a marker of someone who's really trying to do this the Ramsay way. This question, I'll tell you what I've done, and I know probably Rachel has her own take on it. Um, I am a lover of gift

cards this time of year. I'll go to like

Costco or wherever I can get like the

the dollar of like Visa gift card that I can then take that money and spend it on whatever I'm trying to get for Sam and then he doesn't see it. He might of course he'll see the gift card purchase.

So, he might get an inkling for what it is based on the amount of the gift card, but he won't know what it is because he won't be able to see that transaction roll in through every dollar. Uh, what is that? What do you do, Rachel? >> Yes.

Um, a couple of things. One, honestly, well, Kim, we're terrible giftgivers to each other, so I'll say that first and foremost. We're not great at it. >> Um, but the times in the past that we have, two things.

Either it's an obvious holiday like an anniversary or a birthday or Christmas. >> And so Winston will be like, "Hey, I'm going to buy your gift. Just don't look at the bank account." And and he'll delete it off of the Every Dollar app, you know what I mean? Like make a mark like I'll just put it back on.

Just don't look at it online.

And I'm like, "That's great. Like I know it's coming. So like that's >> You're not snooping around anyway. >> No. And I don't care. I don't know. I have I have three kids to deal with. I'm like I don't care. That's fine. Thank you. Nobody got time for that. So that or he did buy me a very nice ring um for

our anniversary two years ago. He got me a band and >> Well, you got to have some friends in high places. >> For sure. You can't do that on a gift card. >> But he had a friend. Yeah. But he had a friend that bought it >> and then Winston paid him back.

>> Oh. >> After. I love that. >> But you got to have a friend to be able to do it. And I did concert tickets one time and my mom bought them and I just told her I'll write you a check after >> because Sharon does not Vinmo which makes me laugh. So I still like will write her a check if something happens.

Um so yeah, we'll do we we'll get around that way. Um but you got to have like a good like you know you got to have like a trustworthy source to do that.

>> So I don't know I don't know if that helps but there's ways around it. And I'll tell you this too, Kim, for people listening, we will hear this randomly as an excuse not to bring in um to combine finances. They're like, "Well, we give gifts and we can't cuz we give gifts and all this." And I'm like, "Y'all, it's like three times a year." And you're a really great spouse if you're getting like anniversary, birthday, and Christmas. Like, I don't know. Are y'all giftgivers? >> Sam Warshaw has made me a giftgiver.

>> Okay. See, y'all are great. >> His family is gifty. And yeah, he's gifty. And Sam, >> he has an expectation.

>> He's got an expectation. >> He's like, I want a good gift.

>> And this man has expensive taste. I'm like, man, I got to I got to raise do.

What am I going to do? >> Oh my gosh. Yeah, but we'll we'll pull the parent or the friend card sometimes to to cover something.

>> Yeah, I like it. That's such a good question. That that is the true mark of somebody who's trying to do this. All right. Uh thanks for the call. We've got Kenny in Jackson, Mississippi. Hey, Kenny. >> Hello. How y'all doing?

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Awesome. I have a Yeah, I have a question about life insurance. So me and my wife have four children under six and

we do have life insurance for them. It's a lot more than what y'all recommend. We have 150,000 on each of them and pe some

people have told me that's really like you don't need to be spending that much and some people are like well that's totally fine. My thought process on having the 150,000 on each child was

it's a going to be probably the most thing if if I obviously like a child passes um and having to be able to take

significant time off work um and then if we do have any debts at that time to be able to pay that off. I know you guys recommend 20,000 and no more than that.

And I know that because I called Xander Insurance and that they won't even sell anything over 20,000.

Kenny, I got I got I got to break in.

>> Um I think you are I think you either

got a hold of some wrong information or I think you may be a little confused about how we teach insurance. Can I

>> Sure. >> Can I explain it? First off, I I do want to say I love that you're thinking about that and you're thinking about how can I protect myself, my family. The thought process is right. The method for how you did it is a little off, but we can fix it. So the purpose of life insurance is

to help the person who is dependent on

your income. It's a income replacement.

So let's say your family for instance, you've got the four kids under six and you've also got the wife. They're all dependent on your income. So if something were to happen to you, Kenny, the insurance needs to be on you and your wife. So you're the bread winner or

maybe your wife is. But if something happens to you, your kids need to be able to have a source of income that they can say, "Okay, we can pay for dad's funeral." You know, hopefully that never happens. And we can afford to continue the lifestyle we've had because this this nest egg is there. And same thing if your wife were to pass away, she's contributing something, whether it be in the form of taking care of the kids and being a household CEO, that needs to re be replaced with money because if she were to go, yes, you would need child care, you would need help around the house.

So that's the purpose of the insurance.

do it by lump sum. We do it 10 to 12

times your income. So whatever you're making, Kenny, we would say 10 to 12 times that amount. And if your wife is a stay-at-home mom, maybe four, you know, four times your income, something around that that number. Um, and we want term life policies on the two of you.

So, not on the kids. >> We have we have uh we have life insurance ourselves, and that's that's great. Um, and I understand about the replacement of the income. I guess just my thought is like I'm not going to want to have to work for I would I mean I've never had a child pass and god forbid that ever happens but like I I know you all have kids like you wouldn't want to work for a substantial amount of time while you're grieving that.

sum of money for the kids in case you know one of them passes. So we actually have like Dr. John says to to grieve and just miss them and figure that out.

Figure >> out in the baby steps.

>> Yeah. So, we're on uh we're on baby step two, I think. Baby step two. So, we have our emergency fund and we're working on pay off debt right now.

So, my my goal is is um once we pay off all of our debt, then you know, scale back on the life insurance. You know, we don't have a huge emergency fund right now besides our $1,000. But, um you know, once we get that taken care of, then we can kind of back off on the life insurance. So, what do you think about that?

Do you think that would be good or No, >> I don't think Yeah, I don't think it's necessary, Kenny. I mean, I do think it's one of these things as an adult, you get to get off this call and do what you feel comfortable doing, and if that's what you want, that's fine.

they have to probably be cheap policies.

How much are you paying per kid, like per year? How much is going to this?

>> Uh, well, per month, it's about 40 bucks a kid. >> Okay. Because to me, that's I mean, you

know, 100 I mean >> 160 bucks a month. >> Yeah. So, I'm like, if that if you I we don't recommend this. This is not the way we would go about it. We would never tell someone to do this. Uh but if this is where you choose to spend some of your money because it makes you feel better and you want to, that's fine. Um but also, word of caution, there's so many, which I don't think you're in because you're working with Xander, but there's so many um bad philosophies

around kids and life insurance of things of like, oh, you get them wealthy here.

You're doing it for a financial strategy. Not really from what you're saying is if they actually did pass away, you would need that money to, you know, not work. Um, but just be careful that you don't go down this rabbit hole of life insurance cuz there is a like there's it's I'd say it's more crappy things out there about life insurance than good. >> Sure.

>> The good is very slim and and the good is good. Like the good is good, but >> there's weird stuff with life insurance policies that are really expensive for kids and all of it and we just don't play that game. So, I don't think it's necessary. But if you want to spend, you know, 160 bucks a month, you can.

But that's, you know, thousand or so dollars not going to the debt.

[Music]

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[Music]

Alrighty. We got Ashton in Austin, Texas. That's a bit of a tongue twister, but it didn't get me. Rachel, what's up, Ashton?

>> Hey, hello. How you doing? Uh, so thank you for taking my call. So, I want to ask you guys a question. Me and my wife are on baby step number two. And so, we we started with $130,000 in debt at the beginning of the year, and we got it down to $23,900 and some more dollar.

>> Good job. >> Yeah. And so, we both uh we've been blessed enough to um work at a company that we get ESP stocks and stuff like that. So, we that really helped us get this push and we thought about $5,000 anywhere from $4,500 to $5,000 a month

uh at at our debt uh every month. So,

what I'm trying what I'm trying to figure out is this though. I'm like, "Okay, we have So, with the ESP stocks, we have about we're going to owe about

14,000 in taxes, right?" Mhm.

>> So, I'm like, "Okay, should we take that money, throw it at the car, and I'll be

I'll have the car if I do that, I'll have the car done cuz that's what the last step is. I'll have the vehicle done by like uh right before well, maybe even

Thanksgiving time. Okay. I'll have the car done and then we can I can we can go

back, you know, start pilot stack stock piling cash and then be ready for when before April 15th comes, >> the 14,000 taxes,000." >> You get what I'm saying? But I'm like or should I leave it or should I should I should I just you know cuz either way it's going to get done cuz like now like I have the tax money but which direction should I go? >> Have you run out the number? You're positive that with just your income alone you'll be able to cash flow the tax bill when it comes?

>> Yeah, cuz we we once again we're blessed enough to be able to live off of one one income. So basically we meant we we live off in we live off of my wife's check and my check is about anywhere from with overtime 20 uh 45 to 4500 to 5,000 a

month. So I'm like you know I'll be ready. You know what I mean? Like I I the taxes are coming from I'm sorry I missed the >> They're cashing out stocks to pay >> and they're single stocks.

>> Yeah, they're single stocks. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean we tell anybody to do that. >> I was going to say I would go ahead and do it anyways, Ashton because I wouldn't have single stocks anyways. So, I would probably tell you to do that and move some stuff to mutual funds or index funds anyways, let alone pay off the debt. So, I think it's a good move in general. It does hurt with the tax bill.

Like what you're saying, it's all it's like, >> but in the long run, >> yeah, I'm scared. I'm scared of Sam.

>> I know. I think we all kind of have a little bit of fear. >> Well, if you want to play it out with your accountant first and like just be double sure that you know what the number is going to be. I think regardless of I mean if you're in the ballpark I think you'll be fine with your income and cash flowing that but if you want just that extra knowledge of just tell me you know get get as close as possible to it I would do that.

$23,981.

>> So you've got other money that you're putting with that to finish the car. Is that what you're doing or is there another >> debt? Yeah. So I'm So every check like last I just paid 2,000. I'm paying 2,000 every two weeks. If I get a little more like I say it's about anywhere from 4,000 to 5,000 a month is my a wider

ballpark of what I'm putting on on the debt. >> Regardless, I've been doing that since the beginning of the year. >> Way to go. >> Good. Yeah. Well, I'm with Jade. If you're able to double check that you can tax flow or I'm sorry, cash flow the tax bill in April, I'd go ahead and cash it out. Yep. and then build up invest

I don't know if you guys run the numbers for some reason then you're going to get this car paid off in 5 months anyways so you could pay it off save some cash on the side after that >> and then sell the stock and pay it you know what I mean either way I would be doing both it's just the order you want to make sure that you're good at but >> if you are 100% sure you will have that money saved for the tax bill I would go ahead and yep cash it out and get this car get get it paid off cuz when you don't have that car payment and Ashton y'all did crazy so good >> I know that was fast >> I know that was so amazing what those numbers you just gave us.

So well done to you and your wife. I mean y'all are like textbook exactly what we talk about and so um yeah you guys got a bright future ahead. >> So good. Thank you for the call.

That's so good. All right. Now we've got Austin in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's up Austin?

>> Hey Jade. Hey Rachel.

make about $60,000 a year. Um, I'm about

$35,000 in consumer debt and my payments

are around 800 per month. Um, the

largest debt is what I'm most worried about and that's a $22,000 truck um at

$400 per month and I just got this truck

about five months ago. And

>> yeah, and the KBB value is 18,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Good night. >> You've already lost 4,000, >> man. Wow. >> Yeah. I am not very good when it comes to pieces at all.

>> Well, you're learning. >> You're 25. You're learning. Um Yeah. Our friend, kind of side note, Austin, um our friend bought a new Tesla >> and he bought it with 4,000 miles on it.

So like it was literally a brand new oneowner all of it. Really? 22% he got off of what he bought that 4,000 like with 4,000 miles versus what if he went retail brand new. So like that just shows you guys how quickly cars drop. So you're not just the only one, Austin. We we see it all the time and it's real.

>> Um how their value drops. So you know the truck we would always say if it is half of your annual income, you need to sell it. >> Um so you're not there. um you're you're

close but you're not there um with the 22,000 versus your income. But the question is I mean yeah the depreciation of what you would have to pay in difference and get a and get some money to replace the car. It kind of ends up being a wash. So I probably would just >> keep it and pay it down.

>> Yeah. What what are the other debts?

What's the other 12,000? So, the I have

10 just under 10,000 on a personal loan

>> and that was for another truck actually that it has a lot of motor issues and

that's why I went and bought this newer

truck. >> So, you spent 10k on a truck still didn't get fixed and then you So, you spent $32,000 on cars very quickly. Where's that truck

right now?

>> Um, I still I still have it. Um, I have

a welder actually coming this weekend to help fix the frame. >> Okay. How much can you sell it for once it's all done?

>> Uh, right around $8,500.

>> Okay. Well, that'll help >> Yeah. >> bring down your um your $22,000 car payment. >> Mhm. And what's the other what's the other $2,000 debt? $3,000 debt. Uh that

is what's remaining for my fiance's

lawyer. Um she is is in the process of

going through a large custody dispute

with uh her baby's father, her son's

father. >> Okay. >> And she was having some trouble trying to come up with that. and I that it was

something very big for >> her and very important to myself. So I

told her that I would go ahead and take care of it and we will handle that

handle everything at at the end. And what I did >> you guys get married?

>> Um we haven't set a date. um we're not

So I started listening to you guys about

9 months ago >> and that that is something that has been

heavy on my mind and it's something that I definitely want to get the ball rolling towards.

>> Um we both she I I'm ready to go to the

courthouse. Yeah. And and just get this over with. Um cuz I also just bought a

house about six months ago.

>> Oh my goodness. Um, >> hey, hold up. Hold up. I'm gonna stop you for a minute. >> You've been listening for nine months. >> You've been listening for nine months.

Um, thank you, Rachel, because I was about I think here's what I want you I

don't want you to keep going towards debt. I want you to start practicing patience >> because I see a guy who's like, I need to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this.

And I just think that it's going to start to compound on you. I'm glad that you called now before it's gotten too crazy. But I got I think Austin, you gotta just slow down a little bit.

>> Um I do. The truck is too much. The the

loan for the other thing is too like if it's not on fire, we should certainly don't need to be going into debt for it.

>> Yeah. >> Um so just >> take a little bit of a chill pill. Um I agree with you. If you're going to start paying for things for your fiance, you probably need to get married or you guys need to decide what that line is because I think this could get messy really fast. And it doesn't it sounds like she's got a lot of loose ends to tie up and it might not be time for her to jump >> so quickly in.

>> But also, you can't be saving a ship while yours is sinking. >> And so, you got a lot on your plate, Austin. So, I would I would focus first and foremost on paying off this debt smallest to largest. And so you're going to do, you know, the the fiance's debt, personal loan for the truck, and then the car payment. Get that taken care of.

Get a good emergency fund and start cash flowing your life all together.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them, and they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here.

And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. And take care of your dad gum family, man.

term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah. >> To just miss you.

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All [Music]

right, guys. Thanks for listening to the Ramsey Show. And if you are an avid listener, and even if you're not, make sure you're sharing the show because uh I believe that the content that we're sharing is so very helpful. I mean, after all, it did help Sam and I pay off $460,000 of debt.

And I truly hope and know that it's helpful for you guys, too. And it's something that you can do to just spread the word of the the Ramsay way. That kind of sounds creepy, but it's not.

So, just, you know, hit the little paper airplane if you're on Instagram or, you know, copy the link on YouTube and share

it with some friends. Uh we also have a really cool playlist uh that is easy to share. So, just make sure you're like, subscribing, and sharing. That really helps us out, and it's something that you can do that's free. That doesn't take any time at all. All right, let's get back to the phone lines. Ryan in San Antonio, Texas. What's up, Ryan? How can we help today?

>> Hi. Yes. Uh, good afternoon, everyone.

How are we doing? Everyone good? >> Oh, yeah. We're doing great.

>> Yeah. Awesome. Glad to hear. So, really what I wanted to call and ask for is um how I can just tackle my debt at a fast and efficient rate. want to be debt free.

>> I love that you want to be debtree. How much debt are we looking at?

>> So, my wife and I just got married August 2nd. So, our combined debt is 48,000.

>> Okay, perfect. What did you say right before that, Ryan? You said something about wanting to be debtree. Did you say a musician? What did you say?

>> They just got married. >> No. Yeah, we just got married in August 2nd. Yeah. We just want to be debtree.

>> Yes. Okay. Before that, when Okay. I'm sorry. I thought I heard something else. Okay. Um, that's great. Yeah. So, how

much do you guys make a year together?

Household income >> combined? Yeah, combined before taxes, we're looking at $100,000.

>> Okay, good. And what kind of debt is it?

Is it from the wedding or >> No, the wedding we paid out of pocket, nothing that we owe for that. It's student loans and a car loan along with credit card debt. >> Okay. How much is the car? How much of the 48 is the car?

$26,000. >> Okay. And that's what I have left. >> What's the student loan?

>> Student loan together? 16,000.

>> Okay. In the credit card, >> correct? Yes. >> Okay. Got it. Okay. So, is this did this

come mostly from one side or is this just really both of you together? This is both your debt.

>> Um, the loans under my name, my wife didn't come in. She has no car payment.

And the student loans I owe a little bit more as well. And then the credit cards together for sure. >> Okay. Okay. So, >> all yours, Ryan, bringing all this to your debtree wife. No, I'm just kidding.

>> That is funny. That's wild. Um, so yeah,

I mean, I think that you have the right spirit. This is something that is great to tackle headon um as you guys are

combining your finances. So, yeah, that's the first thing is combining everything together. I don't know if you've done this or not, but you guys together need a joint checking account that both all your money is going into.

Um, so that's there's complete transparency there. Do you guys have that?

>> No. So, we're very new to this whole to the real world. So, >> yes. How how old are you guys?

>> I'm 26, she's 25.

>> Okay. >> And that's what I wanted to call. Yeah.

For any advice.

>> Perfect. Yes. Well, um Jade's right. So,

combining everything that can be combined. So, that's going to be um any savings in in a high yield or a money market. Um if you guys have any of those accounts, put both names on it, checking accounts. Um yeah, the most like efficient way of combining is that joint checking account.

And people get all squirmish about that because they want their own money and all of this. But we've just found >> financially, not only do you get ahead faster when you work together as a team, when you say, "Yes, all this money is coming to our household as a household, as a family. What do we do with this pile of money?" Regardless of who brings in what? >> This is our money to run our household.

How do we most efficiently do that? And then just from a dollars and cents standpoint, just working out of the same account because Ryan, I mean, it's it still kind of amazes me, which I know I'm the weird one probably in the world today, but that people Vinmo or split grocery bills as a married couple and you're just like, "Oh my gosh, y'all like you >> you're both adult." Like, let's just let's just call it what it is. We're a married couple and we're sharing our life together. So, yeah, the joint the the account would be all of that.

>> And then Go ahead, Jade. Well, I was going to say, does your I know you're calling, but your wife is on board with this. She She knows that we're doing this. We're paying it off of aggressively. Does she know this or is this just you talking?

>> So, I'm the more uh financially savvy

one. I'm the one who's trying to find strategy. She's all on board, though.

She's all She's all >> Well, you say the most financially savvy, Ryan, but you are the one bringing in all the debt.

>> Yeah. What's it mean? >> All spade here. Um, no.

>> So, yeah. And then I would sit down for you guys and do a budget. We'll give you as a wedding gift from Jade and I. Yeah.

Um we'll give you every dollar, which is our budgeting app, but it also you plug in all your numbers so you see your numbers as a household. Um which will help you start working your way out of debt, giving you a plan and giving you some guidance that way. And I also throw in my book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, because understanding how you guys function separately, how you grew up, your money personalities, you know, you you I I made fun of you, Ryan. You said you're the savvy one, but you're probably the nerd.

we probably enjoy this stuff. She's probably a little bit more laid-back, which is great. Like, all of that's so normal, but working together >> and seeing each other's strengths is really big. And you'll probably get those conversations doing a budget.

that's a great um I mean, some people have a lot of bad memories around that, you know. I think it's a >> I have an okay one.

>> I think it's a great starting point to be like, "Hey, here's what I think we spend on groceries. What do you think we spend on groceries?" you know, you really start to get a handle on where your income's going. And in that budget, Ryan, is where you guys are going to be listing out your debts as well, and you guys will start working on tackling the smallest debt. So, it's probably one of the credit cards, uh, paying that off, and then you just you pay minimum payments on everything, but you start attacking the smallest one first.

And if you guys together, Ryan, >> can get fully on board. And if you guys go crazy with this, and when I say crazy, and Jade Jade lived this out, so you could probably speak to it, but I mean, it's not Yeah. not not only cutting expenses, but you both getting extra jobs, working nights, working weekends. Like, you just go all in.

You could get this 48 paid off, I think, in 18 18 months. For sure.

guys being newlyweds, you're going to have to basically live like your college students. Like, don't mistake getting married for now we're, you know, about that life. Now is the time for you to be like, "Okay, we're eating peanut butter and jelly because we're newlyweds and everything is fun, right?" Like, make everything fun because you're newlyweds.

And also I would say Ryan, don't mistake, and this is for anybody listening because sometimes a wife or a spouse or a husband can say, "Yeah, sure. Do whatever you want." Right?

Don't mistake that for being on board.

Make sure she's on like wants to be a part of it. Because I think sometimes if you're the nerd, it can be that can be

interpreted as, "Oh, she says I can go do this." >> Yeah. And you may be excited about it and Ryan's like, "Well, I'll do it. I'll do the budget. Don't worry." >> You got to do it together.

So you you you you got to make sure that this is not just hey she said it's fine so you go off to the spreadsheet and you know just dive in there on your own. Make sure that you're both to Rachel's point contributing. She has a you know she has a say in the budget. You might be the one who makes it but she's the one who's commenting on it and you guys are both tracking transactions.

Everything's transparent.

down the line. >> Yeah, for sure. Ryan, can you already tell um if you guys are opposites with money? meaning like are you more of the spender or she's more of the saver or vice versa?

>> I think we're both pretty conservative.

It was just actually writing down the desk. We were just like, "Holy smokes.

Okay, this is why we need um we need some advice on how to do it, but >> I think we're both a little bit on the conservative end. We don't splurge." >> Yeah. As much. >> No, that's great.

Yeah. And I'll say this, Ryan. you know, the faster you guys can get out of this debt, the the brighter your future is because we would tell you like stop investing, stop everything until you get this debt paid off and then you guys build up an emergency fund after that. Um, if you guys want to buy a home or I'm not sure if a home is in the equation, you know, that would be after that.

But, but it is amazing when you look up and run some numbers. If you go to ramseolutions.com and our investment calculator, if you start investing at 30 >> Oh, man. Oh, man.

Like it's insane. And just put in your car payment from age 25 to age 65 and see if you lived with the car payment your whole life instead of investing >> you paid a car company that payment what you're missing out on. So together just like start building this dream of like this is what we want to be. We want to be about this and we we want to be out of debt.

We want to be investing. You know, it that's the fun part of all of it when you're working together, which I think couples miss out on when they keep it so separate. It's like you don't get to dream together and be like, "Here's what we get to do as a couple and as a family." So, um there's a lot of upside, Ryan.

Um because I think you guys are you're on the right track and you guys are you're going to do incredible things. So, congratulations on the marriage.

[Music]

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So you guys, we're always giving you advice on obviously how to manage your money and the components that go along with that. So of course, uh we're always telling you things like you need to get on a budget. A budget is a huge part of managing your personal finance. You need to be paying off debt.

That's a huge part of personal finance. You need to carry the proper insurance, a a very big part of personal finance. Obviously, we care about uh saving for the future. We care about things like generosity.

But another big part of managing your personal finances is what would happen if you were to leave this earth. What happens to your personal finances, your assets, all of those things. And so, of course, that falls under wills and estate planning. And it's kind of one of those topics, Rachel, that's a little bit like I don't know if makes you feel some type of way to talk about it, but we really do need to talk about it.

So, um, we get questions all the time about wills. Can I can I just make my own will? Can I do it online? Do I need to get with a lawyer?

How do I do this?

Yep. And answer the number one questions, uh, actually the top four questions that people tend to ask us. So, the first one, how do I know, Rachel, if I need a trust or if my estate's too complicated for doing the online thing? >> Oh, yeah.

Well, we always say if your estate is worth less than a million dollars, then an online will is just sufficient. That's fine. Anything past a million probably can get complicated with passing down assets and taxes and all of that.

>> I love that. Okay, what about this one?

What do I need to start my will online?

>> Well, making a will online or not, uh, some big decisions you got to think through. So, think through >> who do I want to give all my stuff to?

You know, where does my stuff go? Uh, if you have minor children, um, children that are minors, who's going to be taking care of them? And also who do you want to make decisions for you if you are incapacitated? If you're not if you're not available or yes >> conscious enough right to make these decisions about your finances and then there's even power of attorneys for health decisions.

All of it um is there in the will. >> So important.

Uh number three is an online will legally valid? Yes, it is. But just not

any online will that you find on the internet may not be legally valid in your state. So again, it has to be a state specific will. That's one reason we we recommend uh Mom and Bar legal forms because they do a great job with that. >> Yeah. When Sam and I moved from Florida to Tennessee, we had to change our will because state state law applies. Okay.

And finally, number four. Why would I want an online will versus a traditional one that's made with a lawyer? Why would I even bother with that? >> Um it's more convenient. You're able to kind of do it at your pace. you're able to get to it. Um I'd say it's less expensive as well, takes less time.

Yeah. >> Um so again, it's it's very doable and again our world today, um the way we've made things accessible. So whether it's um you know, even brokerage accounts or index funds, you know, you can do through Vanguard, you know, uh your will you can do online. And so there are times that you can just do these things yourselves.

But when things get more complicated, whether it's investing, >> again, your estate, even like we're talking about making a will, bring in professionals to help you with some of this stuff, especially if you have anything that's a little bit complicated because it's worth getting an expert opinion. >> Yeah, I agree. So, if if if you heard us talk, but you're still not sure, uh why don't you take our Wills quiz to find out kind of where you fall on either side of the fence, and you can do that by going to ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz, and you can find out which approach is right for you.

All right. Thank you, Rachel. Let's go to Gina in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey, Gina.

How can we help today? >> Hey, ladies.

>> Doing great.

>> Awesome.

So, my question today has to do with

investing, but also insurance. Uh my

husband and I have gone through Financial Peace University and we've taught it two times. We're debtree. Uh

we're but we are also saving for a home.

We sold our home uh like eight years ago up north and moved to Florida and we've been saving since then um bought new cars and all that stuff completely debtree cash flowing everything.

>> Good for you guys. >> We are >> awesome. Thank you so much. Um, so we

are at this point maxing out

basically all of our retirement accounts and my husband recently got a new job

and the health insurance has doubled.

Our high yield health insurance has gone from $3,000 a year to $6,000 a year. And

we don't use it ever. So we cash flow

all of our health expenses because we do all alternative health. Mhm.

>> So, we have a chiropractor, massage, acupuncture, >> nutritional therapies, everything.

>> And they don't take insuranceances traditionally. Yeah. >> Correct. Yeah. And I've even tried to like I've taken hours even like, you know, sending in receipts trying to see if I can somehow like build up that.

Nothing has ever been. >> So, did you drop your policy? Is that what you're thinking of doing, letting it lapse?

Well, I just keep going back and forth because technically it's in play like right at this moment. Like we did sign up for it, but now open enrollment is coming around again. And I'm thinking I'm going to lose out on the investment portion of the HSA, which we've been maxing out the last few years, but have never taken any money out of. And so I'm like, >> which you can keep until >> $12,000.

>> is that what you're worried >> are you worried about the premium you just don't want to pay the premium anymore because you don't really use the insurance is that what you're saying >> I'm thinking I can just invest that and continue to cash flow my healthcare and just invest separately. I mean, we're also doing about $1,000 a month in an outside retirement. >> What's your nest egg now? >> What are you guys worth now?

>> It's not huge because it's only been the last few years, maybe like 500,000.

>> I don't know if I would drop that, Gina.

I wouldn't because because the truth is if something if a car I mean, if >> you could get in a car accident tomorrow and need brain surgery >> and it would Yeah. millions of dollars.

You know what I mean? Like, it just I mean, the health care costs are just it it's extreme. And so if you don't have health insurance in place, I mean, it's worth it. It would be worth it. Even if I don't use it yeartoear, >> it's an extra padding if something big happens. Um, a diagnosis. I mean, anything. Yeah. You're going to you're going to want health insurance. I would not I would not risk cash flowing that.

>> You got to remember, >> and that's basically what my husband thinks, too. But I'm like, and I'll tell you, >> you talked to you talked to Sharon Ramsay, Gina, and even my sister, and they are on your train. They are

>> activated charcoal with stomach bugs. I mean, they're into the Yeah. The whole thing, but they all But they all keep health insurance because the truth is like, yes. If something really bad happens to you, one of your children, I'm like, >> you know, >> I I don't know. I don't Yeah, we don't have to get like in a medical debate, but but I think you're going to want surgery or you know what I mean? >> Charcoal can't fix certain things.

>> I'm not against that for sure. I get it.

I just I guess I was just thinking like would the auto insurance just come into play at that point?

umbrella insurance like there's other insuranceances that we have that I thought okay if something like that happens >> tell me tell me the problem you're trying to solve what what I think what >> you hate paying the 6,000 every year is that it >> and you'd rather invest the money >> absolutely >> so what I would do if I were you if I was so hung up on that $500 a month being invested I'd go out and find another $500 a month and invest it I'd earn it if that's what you're trying to do um >> but >> yeah I just see this and insurance too.

I'll say this, Gina, like >> you know, home insurance, ours keeps going up and it's just it's it's it's a little bit of a pain to pay off it.

>> Yeah. But it's for the just in case the worst case scenario. That's what insurance is for. And you know, even life insurance, right?

You have life insurance in case something happens to you for your kids and like >> and you know, god forbid nothing does happen, but it's the just in case. So I so I would keep Yes, I would keep it for the just in case category and you're paying for peace of mind if something really really bad happens that costs >> literally hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars of, you know, whatever may happen. >> Um that you have that in place. So >> that's right.

>> Yeah, that's right. I know. I know, G. I hear you. I hear you. But um but yeah, I don't think I I I would um let that let

that go. >> No. If anything, think of it as um there are certain things in life that feel like a pain in the butt sometimes like uh insurance or when you you know people call in, they're like, I don't want to go to the next tax bracket. And I'm like, guys, at the end of the day, actually, these things are a blessing to be able to afford and to be able to uh

shoulder the weight of that payment. Um and to say something like, "Oh man, if I could have that money, I could invest it." Cuz some people, you know, they they can't even afford the payment. So that's right. Kind of try to keep it in perspective like that.

It's great to be able to transfer that risk. It is a pain in the butt, but at least you can at least you can handle it. It's not causing you to miss out on dinner or anything like that. >> And you guys are killing in other places, too.

So I Yeah, I would I would take the abundance approach like Jade's saying. >> That's right.

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[Music] All right. Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fairwind's Credit Union studio continuing to take calls about your life and your money. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Rachel Cruz and we're just chopping it up with you guys. So call in 88825-5225 and we'll do our best to get you on the phone line. We've got we've got Jasmine in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hey Jasmine,

how can we help today?

>> Hey. Um yes, so I'm calling kind of on behalf of my husband. Uh we live about

two hours away from Raleigh in a small town. Um but basically my husband is a

wonderful guitarist and his income has

decreased pretty steadily over the past few years due to not to his part but the

people he plays for. So I was calling to see exactly um how he could increase

that income and and be a better contributor because um I feel like it's

difficult for us because of the the stress of not being able to play as much as he wants to. >> So what level was he playing on? Was he like touring with a major artist or was he explain doing session work? Like explain what that was.

So he's not touring with a major artist,

but um he is touring with a guy based

out of Nashville. So he commutes back

and forth between our little town in North Carolina and Nashville quite or used to a couple of times a month. Um

now it's like once a month in the winter months it's hardly any.

>> At the height of that, what was he earning when he was doing that? like at the height of doing his thing.

>> So at the height he was actually still living in Nashville majority of his time

and also working with another music company as a sound engineer.

>> Okay. >> And so he probably at the height was

doing I don't know maybe 75.

>> And how long ago was that Jasmine?

>> That was three years. Three and a half.

>> Okay. and what's he been making since why did y'all move to Raleigh? Sorry.

Why did you move to Raleigh if he's a musician and he's doing music work in Nashville?

>> So, he moved back home.

>> How long have you guys been married? >> Never wanted to live in Nashville. Um, we will be four years or three years

this coming November. >> Okay. So, we made the choice that it was more important to be home than keep this gig, the sound engineer gig and the playing gig. And now he's in Raleigh and can't find the word. >> Yes, >> he's still playing with the same guy.

It's just that guy doesn't play as oft.

>> Yeah, but he was also supplementing touring and doing sound because we know Nashville. I mean, there's like tons of musicians and they do all kinds of things. >> Um >> Uhhuh. >> to be able to supplement a full >> live there's no >> Yeah.

So that's his choice. But do you do understand it would be like >> you know we have some students from Pennsylvania I think. So, I'm like, it'd be like working at Hershey's and being like, "Oh, I still want to do chocolate, but I'm going to move to Atlanta or something." And you're like, "Well, there's not a lot of," you know what I'm saying? Like, you moved out of the the the work.

What was his plan? >> Yeah. >> The plan was to still work with the

musician and then another guy that um is

has a band here and that he does sound for here. And so he still works with these guys. Um the problem lies that

they aren't Yeah. They're not working as often and not making as much money.

>> So I'm gonna tell you I'm going to tell you as a person who lived in this lifestyle. A it feels like he's got all

of his eggs in one one to two very small

baskets. And that gets tough because he's relying on these people because to

do their job and if they're not doing their job, he can't do his job, right?

So because of that, he's got to have diversify and have his hand in a lot of different things. And that is a full-time job. That alone, he's got to be on this all the time. He should be out marketing, you know, networking every single night. He should be at everybody else's live shows, getting to know people. So if somebody's sick, they're like, "Oh, I know a guy who can sub and he's great on guitar." Like that's has that been his full-time job?

Because if it has been and he's still not getting anything, then he's got to consider where his strength lies. If his greater strength is in sound engineering, maybe he needs to veer more towards that side of things. If it Do you see what I'm saying? Like I think as a musician, as an entertainer, you have to have a lot of tough conversations with yourself and you have to be very realistic on what you need to be doing

next, especially when there's money involved and a family involved. So what

have you observed?

Is he grinding or is he kind of like >> uh >> he has been distracted with a new baby.

So um I we had our baby n almost 10

months ago. So that has definitely taken

um a front seat to his work and and

being that person that is always going and networking and making phone calls and all that you just talked about.

>> Um so that >> but it's been four years. You said four years ago he was making 75,000 and what's he making now?

>> Um this year he last year it was about

45 to 50. This year it's 30.

>> Yeah. that he's he's on the decline. So,

>> you guys you you said that you're calling in for him. Did he ask you to call? Is that what you meant by that? Or you're calling >> No, >> for you. >> No, I'm calling for me.

>> Okay. >> To kind of see how I can help him.

>> And I think you need to sit down and I think you have to frame this not around his talent, not around what he can or can't do. You have to just frame it around the reality and say >> and of your reality too that what I'm feeling. >> Yeah. It's about Yeah.

You're talking about it from your perspective, which is we have a brand new baby. It's been four years and I'm feeling a shift. I'm feeling a decline and I'm very scared because I haven't you you're not talking about it and I don't see what the plan is. I don't know what the plan is, but I know that we need one.

Right. Have you had those types of conversations with him?

babysitter well established because he's kind of being a stay-at-home mom while I was working. Um because my income is

more >> Oh, >> and um >> What's your income? >> Yeah. And so mine is 833.

>> Okay. So I will say I thought you were I I thought his income was the only income. So it's good that you are working. >> Got it. Do you enjoy your work, Jasmine?

Is that what you're wanting to do?

>> Oh, I mean, ideally, if I could be his stay at home mom, that would be amazing, but I can't do that. We can't financially. But I do enjoy what I do.

>> Okay. So, your concern though with him, cuz you know, household, you guys are at over six figures right now, even with him making 30. >> Um, and he's replacing child care, right? I mean, he's not, >> you guys aren't paying for child care while you work. He's the one watching.

he was he doesn't do well um with child care because like he feels like he needs to be the provider and um

>> then he needs to go out and provide >> respectfully >> like you can't have he can't have it both ways.

>> Yeah. And we had discussed like what's the plan and his plan is well once we get you know somebody in I'll be able to focus and and work and bring like get

more gigs and bring up the income. This is what you need to remind him. The baby's 10 months old, but this decline has been happening for 4 years.

>> So that the baby might be a distraction, like a further distraction, but it's not the root of the problem. Um, and I think that's what you need to talk with him about is say, "I get it. We do need child care. I'm not saying we don't, but this precedes that, and that's what I'm worried about." and you sound like a really kind, sweet, you know, a little

bit more softspoken, but I think that you need to lay this out in very clear terms that he's going to understand that

you also have dreams here, which is to stay home. So, your dreams matter and his dreams matter and you've got to come together on a plan and a tipping point.

That's like the no the go no-go on this music deal.

Okay.

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All right. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y refi. So, if your private student loans are in default and if you're feeling stuck, just know you're not out of options, okay? Y Refi specializes in helping borrowers just like you find real solutions with low fixed rate financing. So, go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Ryan in Vermont. He said, "I'm 40 years old and engaged to a lady who is 37.

However, I'm struggling to see how to move forward. I own a house and I've been using cash to upgrade and repair the home. She believes that I should put her name on the house without her putting anything into it. I disagree and

have asked that she at least match some of the equity before her name goes on the house. She makes significantly more than I do, but chooses to own horses.

And we need we need George on this card.

uh her hobby causes her not to be able to cover her own bills because she spends so much on them and their upkeep.

I'm at a loss about how to approach this issue. I have studied the Ramsay principles on how married couples should approach finances, but I can't figure this step out for us.

>> How do couples merge finances when they completely disagree on how their money is being allocated?

>> It's a lot there. >> Ryan, I don't think you're worried about the house. I think you're worried that you're marrying someone that can't do math.

>> There's a lot there, >> right? >> Yeah. >> I'm like, girl, you're 37.

>> Mhm. >> Like, I'm sorry that your Yeah, you're I'm with him on this. Your hobby causes you not to be able to cover your own bills. >> Yeah. That Well, well, I I do Okay, let

let me let me I don't know if it was just the way I heard it, but I also feel like he has a tone.

>> Yeah. With the house. >> Yeah. >> But I think it's deeper. I think it's cuz he's seeing her not being able to function as a human being and then she's like just going to jump in and and he's like, "Are you going to be able to help function as a married couple or am I going to be drowning in irresponsibility

the rest of my life because my fiance

>> isn't even covering herself?" Like I think that I think it's a deeper fear. I think it's coming out as the house, which I don't agree with Ryan. I don't agree with you on that from a principled standpoint. >> I agree.

I I >> But she's 37 and she can't pay her bills because of her >> horses. I didn't know. I don't know. And and I may have misinterpreted this, but I didn't know if he was saying like she can't even cover cover her bills.

Saying like her putting the equity that he wanted is one of the bills that he wants her to cover. Like I I was trying to understand if she really is like not paying her utilities. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. I guess so.

I I I think if she was I think if she was a I think if she was successful, responsible, she's investing, she's doing this and that. She's got her own place. She's going to sell. I mean, >> sure.

Yeah, you're right. I don't think he'd be worried about it. >> No, I don't either. >> I think that you're marrying I'm sorry, a woman that's not like you're she's not responsible.

>> Yeah. >> You're a little uptight, Ryan. So, you probably need to like >> You both need help. >> Have a Yeah.

Have a glass of wine and chill for a second.

think the >> You need marriage counseling. >> Well, you do. And I think and again not from like the X's and O's and the and the math side >> but from a reality of what you're getting of of genuinely money is a stress point for couples >> big time. >> And if you guys do not see things and again you don't have to be the same person. She can still be more of a spender. You're more of a saver.

>> But if you're not aligned on a value system at which you approach money, you're going to have an uphill battle to climb. >> Yeah. 100% harder. 100%. Yes. you're

marrying again. I'm so sorry, but a 37year-old.

>> Yeah. >> I like I just you can't you can't live like that your whole life. And so, >> no, you can't. >> That's um that's what I would worry about. And that her it's it's a it's a

um prioritization of importance in life.

>> Yes. And and yeah, their values are not aligned. >> Would worry me. Yeah. Mhm. >> So, no, Ryan, when you get married, you don't need your new spouse to bring in the equity that you put all that. No, you're all the same. When you get married, you are together. You are one.

You're choosing a life with a partner.

So, get that off. But again, I think he's highlighting that and worried about that because of this other stuff. >> I agree. I agree. That's like his guarantee that he's not going to get burned. >> 100%. 100%. Yeah.

>> Oh, man. Oh, good luck to you.

>> Good luck, Ryan. Again, you got to have these conversations when you're enga like before you're engaged. Like you got to know who they are financially. Yes.

So that >> if you don't get this straightened out, I don't know if I'd I don't know if I could do it. >> I don't know. I could at 30, you know, I don't know if this is her first or second marriage, but at that age, I have a I was just telling Rachel in the break, I couldn't be out in these single waters at 40 because the stuff that I

could not tolerate Yeah. >> is very high. >> It gets higher and higher. I know. >> It gets higher and higher.

>> The standards go up. Oh my gosh. I don't know if I want to deal with that. >> Life's too short at 40 at that point.

>> I know. That's right. >> We got a solid 30 years. We could travel the I don't know. >> It's like I can't say it on the air, but if you've seen Lethal Weapon, Danny Glover's famous line. I'm getting too old for this. >> Yeah. >> You know, anyway, it feels like >> Katon is in Chicago, Illinois online, too. What's up, Katon?

>> Hey, how you guys doing today?

>> We're doing good. How can we help?

>> Awesome. So, I am currently 24 years

old. Um, I don't have any debt. Um, I

don't own a car and recently just found

out for my job that, um, for my new location. I'm going to have to buy a car. And I'm looking for direction on

should I lease a car based on my salary.

Should I buy one? And just exactly how

much should I spend? And I have to make a decision like the next four weeks. So, decided to give you guys a call.

>> Yeah, that's great. Well, you got some time. That's good. How much are you making per year at your job?

>> I'm making 81,000.

Probably like another 5K for bonuses.

>> Okay, great. >> Good job. >> Um, do you have any money saved right now?

>> Yeah, so I have like five grand in my checking and then like another 24,000 in investments that I can sell off at any moment. >> Okay. Single stocks.

Um, it's all just the S&P I put all my money into for investing.

>> Great. So, I would say, you know, the

the rule of thumb here is, of course, you don't want it to the car to be anything with an engine to be any more than half of your take-home pay. And honestly, I mean, you're young, you're starting out. I probably wouldn't even go that high. I would try to keep this frugal. Do you have You said you have no debt, right?

>> No, I don't owe any money.

>> No debt. And uh this 24,000 is that your

only that's your only savings anywhere?

The 24 and the five that that 30,000, right? That's it.

>> Yeah. Then I have like another probably like 30 in retirement, but I don't really >> We don't need to touch that. Okay, great. So, what do you have your eye on?

What are you looking at? I mean, if if you tomorrow were to choose something, what would you spend?

I'm like thinking I think I want to spend like 15 to 20k because if I in my

mind I'm like if I buy >> a cheap car that like is just going to have problems and stuff or you know for like >> 78k then I'm worried that in like another two years I'm going to have to buy a new one. I'm going to spend a ton.

>> I agree with you. You're not in a position where you need to have a beater. You're not in debt. You've got a nice savings here. I'm with you. I think if you spend 15 or 20 on a car, that's not a bad thing. And you pay. >> I literally wrote 15 down. That I think that's great. What uh what's the commute going to be? Are you driving a lot?

>> Um it probably be like I'm in Chicago so the traffic's insane. But >> yeah, >> probably like I think it's 13 miles there, 13 miles home. >> Okay. But just traffic. Okay. I was going to say cuz if you're putting a ton of miles on it, that's something also to consider >> um of not just like wearing down a car, but that's not going to be the case for you. You're not getting brand new, you'll get used. >> Yeah. And leasing, um, it is the most expensive way to finance a vehicle.

Like, from a mathematical standpoint, you'd be better off getting a car payment than leasing because of the baked in interest and all that and all the the fees around it. Um, but we don't want you to get a car payment. We want you to stay debtree and cash flow the car. So, me too.

>> Yeah. So, I would put those options Yeah. off the table. And yeah, and I would just Yeah, I'd buy a 15 20 I think that's exactly right. 15 20,000. I think that's great. um you'll probably have to pay some taxes on when you're pulling money out. So, be thinking about that.

And then my next step, Katon, I think from a financial goal perspective is I would probably just have some cash available, like three months of expenses and just putting that in a high yield savings account. Don't invest it. Just have it over there liquid in case you need it as just kind of a standard emergency fund.

>> That's right. >> And then, um, yeah, have a have a quick savings goal of about 3 months of expenses just to set aside. So, if you run into an issue like this, like anything in life that you just need some cash, that way you're not to pulling out your investments because what you what you're invested in is probably great and the rate of return the past few years has been fantastic. So, I hate to >> pull it out of a great index fund, but you need the car and at least you have the cash.

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In 2026, don't just set your goals, you need to actually learn how to reach them. And the 2026 goal planner is here and it's packed with content from myself, Rachel Cruz, John Deloney, and all of it's there to help you stay on track in all the areas of your life that matter. Talking about your money, your faith, your relationships, all of it's going to help you follow through on your goal. So, you need to know guys, we sell out on the goal planner every single year.

They sell like hot cakes. So, do not wait to purchase one.

ramseyolutions.com/store.

Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can just click that link in the description to get one today. All right, we've got Ann in San Jose, California. Hi, Ann. How you doing?

>> Hi. Great.

>> How can we help today? listening to well I've been listening to Dave Ramsey. I look forward to hearing him every day.

And I just uh would like to have your opinion on how should my younger sister take title to a house that I sent her

the money because she didn't have any money. And um so I sent her 245,000

to purchase the house in South Carolina.

And uh I just want to make sure that if something happens to her, I would get the house. so I can get my money back.

>> Oh, okay. So, you I just want to make sure I got the story straight. You gave the money for the house. She purchased it and the house is for her to live in.

>> Yes. >> And then at what point were you hoping

to get the title back? Is it just if she were to pass away or was there another circumstance that you would want to get that house back?

>> Well, she's looking for a job. She said if she she's looking for a job, she'll start paying me back. Um that I don't

really need the money and I trust her.

So, um if she pays me, fine. The only

thing I worry about is if something happens to her, if she was to, you know, die suddenly or she's 60 years old and

uh I would then like to have the money or the house back without her husband getting it or her son.

>> Oh. Oh.

So, you would want her to will it to you over her immediate? Does she know that?

>> Yes. She said she's willing to do a will, but I was told if she does a will, it's going to be in probate and all that. >> If she does a will, well, it may go through for a little bit, but I mean, yeah, the will, if it's a state specific will, it'll it'll go through any uh legal, but I do want to Does the husband know this and the son?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And they're okay with it because they they get to live there, >> right? >> As long as she's alive. Yeah. And then if she were to pass, they'd have What would you do? Would you kick him out and get the money?

>> Uh Oh, I didn't think about that.

>> I mean, >> probably not.

>> That would be a little heavy-handed, but my I guess what I'm saying is >> you said you don't need the cash. Is that right? >> No. >> Okay. What What are you worth, Ann?

What's your net worth?

Um, five, six million without my two houses.

>> Okay. So, yeah, you're doing well. Um,

why do you want the money back? Like, >> it's a lot of money. >> It is, but also you're setting up a life

for your sister, which includes, you know, her family. Mhm.

>> Um and if she passes away and it says in

the will that it's titled to you, then

um yeah, you got to think through are you giving them and it needs to be all communicated. That needs to be all in the will to be able to say yes within 12 months an Aunt Anne expects us to find a

different place to live >> and you take the house um back. Um which

again, if it's everyone's wishes, that's that's on you guys. Um, but

>> no, I was wondering if we could do like tenants in common.

>> Do what? Say it again. >> Tenants in common.

>> Tenants in common >> where they are the tenant of the home, but you have the title,

>> right? But I don't really I don't want to be responsible for insurance and taxes. She'll take I don't want those in my name. >> Oh boy. That's >> if she if she passes, you don't want those in your name or just today?

>> Uh, just today.

>> Just today. >> I guess I could have think this out a little more. >> It's complex.

>> Uh, I think you have to make a couple of decisions and whatever you decide, you're you're the captain of the ship, right? Because you you paid the money and it sounds like your sister would go

with whatever you said. It sounds like it it's the it's the husband that you need to make sure also understands. I just think the main thing is whatever it is, it needs to be in writing.

>> Yeah. >> Um when if it ends up being the case that she wills it to you, you need to know about that. >> Yeah. Why did you do it in the first place, Ann? Were they in need?

>> Did they need a place? >> Yes. Okay. Yes.

>> Because of her and her husband can't provide um enough income to sustain a

home themselves, >> right? Yeah. because her husband was with the military. He's got PST. He's

not working and the money he gets is they can't live on. >> Okay. Um, is the house in San Jose, too?

>> No, the house in South Carolina, which is not not a community property state.

>> Okay, >> understood. >> Um, I'm trying to think currently. I'm just I'm thinking of the best solution because and I also don't want this whole

idea of o of owing

>> people money especially within family it just kind of changes the dynamic. So, I'm just thinking out loud here, Ann. I wonder if you tell her, "Hey, >> you don't have to pay me back." >> Mhm. >> I mean, you're worth a lot and you gave this as a gift, but maybe you say instead, I need you to be in charge of

>> the bills of the home, the property tax, all of that. That's what she's in charge of because you pay she paid for the home outright. There's no mortgage on it.

Correct. >> No mortgage. She bought it cash with the money I sent. >> Yes, I hear you. >> So, and legally, everybody thinks it's hers. like you're not on the hook for anything right now.

>> Correct. >> So, >> correct. >> Does it hurt you? Like, does it bother you if if it becomes a gift?

>> No, it's just that I kind of my, you know, my poor husband and I worked all our lives and now my husband I just have

helped my family.

>> I gave my mother a house, my brother a house. >> Oh, wow. And handed out the car and Oh my gosh. We got in the wrong family. How do we >> I know. >> And Jade and I are great.

>> We're great people >> and I would will it to you. I'm just kidding. >> So, is it that you're just you just feel like I' I've done too much. Maybe I need to pull back on this. Is that what it is? >> You're having like a like a little regret maybe.

>> Um, not really. The reason I do it is

that she rescued old dogs, rescued

greyhounds and they cost a lot of money for vet bills and and to feed them. So,

I'd always help with that. And um you

know, anybody who rescues animals to me, I we give money to all these rescue

places. >> Yeah. >> Oh, wow.

>> And we got to work. Okay. what I want you to work on. So, I need you and your husband to get on the same page.

And if he wants this paid back cuz he feels like it's off, then that's y'all y'all go for it. In the will, it needs to be very clear. Ann gets the house back if she passes. Um, husband and son have to be out within 12 months and they have to find the place to live and we're we're done with it, right?

Everyone needs to be on the same page.

So you and I know and I want you to work on that Ann because solving problems with just money doesn't always work even though it feels like it does >> it still can leave people in a cycle of of irresponsibility and that's not good for them. And so I love your generous heart and your spirit and I think it can be taken um in such a better healthier

way as a recipient if the recipient is actually doing the work to take care of themselves as well. Right? You pair that with generosity and it's a really beautiful pairing if you're able to do it, which you are financially, which is so great. >> Um, yeah, >> but you just need next time you you want to give a house away, just pump the brakes >> and just you and your husband need to get on the same page and just think, okay, what's the situation >> that we want to give to?

And again, I love the generous spirit when you got $6 million net worth. Like to be able to do stuff for people.

But, >> um, >> you also want to give in a way that it's not a burden. >> Yeah. for both, >> you know, >> the pattern of giving houses away.

>> Yeah. Well, it's creating it's a blessing on the front end, but it's creating a burden on the back end and chaos. So, >> thinking through those things is very, very important. And yeah, I'm I'm with you. Borrowing a house is probably not

the way to give. You probably want to

either give it or there's >> some stipulations. >> Yeah, you need the stipulations.

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All

right, our scripture and quote of the day. Job 34:32 says, "Teach me what I

cannot see, and if I've done wrong, I will not do so again." Simon Synynic said, "Appreciate when things go ary. It makes for a better story to share later." I know. That's right.

>> That's funny. >> That is good. That's like, well, I told Rachel my story that went ary was in New York City this weekend, and it's true.

When things go arry, it does a better story. That's right.

>> Anyway, let's go to Louiswis in New York City, New York. There we go. What's going on, Louis?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> You're welcome.

What's going on? >> My question is just a little backstory.

I'm 23 and I've been hustling non-stop since June after graduating to pay off my debt. >> Okay. Um, now I'm struggling with

whether hustling so much and not really being home as often if I'm losing time,

quality time with family. Um, while

health isn't good.

>> Oh, whose health is not good? Yours or somebody in your family?

>> Uh, my parents.

>> Okay. >> I'm sorry. Is is um is there something immediate happening or is it just kind of like they're just getting older and their health's declining?

>> Exactly. just just age, getting older, losing that time. >> How old are they?

>> 70. >> Okay. >> Okay. Are they again is there like an

immediate health concern or or are they generally healthy? You just see them getting older?

>> Generally healthy, but we do have like a

time on it. The doctor said like within

eight years, so >> Oh, so there's a diagnosis.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. Um um Okay. How much debt do

you have left, Lewis?

>> So, I started with 130,000 and I'm down to 90,000. >> Good for you. Okay. And what do you expect if you were to stay on this pace?

How long it would take you to pay off that 90? >> So, it's nice. I live with my parents right now. I'm a little old to still be there, but I'm able to throw about 7,000 a month at the loans. >> Amazing. >> Be able to have it done >> by the end by next Christmas. Okay.

Okay. So, >> well, let me tell Okay. Yeah. Um

Okay. So, I mean, can can I just from someone that's not emotionally entangled in the family, I just from an outsers's perspective, >> uh June, we got July, August, September, October, we got about four months of hustling.

>> Um you live with your parents. Mhm.

>> Um there's possibly an 8 years

um a diagnosis of something, you know.

Um >> so >> you do have t you do have time. So if you stayed on the track that you're on

for one year, um

I think you I think you'll be okay. I mean, and I think you'll probably pay it off sooner than that. Um but just from like a time perspective, like let me say this loose. you had called and your mom had a diagnosis and she had four months to live, I'd say pause everything.

>> Yes. >> And and do what you got to do with your family like that, you would never regret that. But it doesn't seem necessarily

urgent. And I think if you got out of debt faster, it would free you up not

only to get out on your own, but also to have the ability to actually save and build wealth and do some things in these next seven years to maybe even um be a

blessing to them in some way.

>> Yeah. I'm also thinking about, okay, so you're you're living with them now.

Let's pretend that you weren't living with them and you were just, you know, as a 20, you're 23, right?

>> Yeah. >> As a 23-year-old, you were just in your apartment, right? What is what does quality time look like? Is it we do a family dinner every Sunday?

Is it I I want to challenge that because living with them now, I'm like, you see them every day. You probably see them in the morning and you maybe probably see them when they come home or when you come home. So, I'm I'm wondering what is it that what's the specific thing that you're like, "Man, I'm missing out on that because that might maybe there's a remedy there sooner than later." Um, so if it's like a family dinner thing, maybe instead of family dinner, we do a thing on Saturday. You know what I'm saying?

Is it something that you can shift around to where you still feel like >> I'm doing this special thing with them that I feel like I'm missing out on? Or is it just in general I'm just used to seeing them more throughout the day?

them when it makes sense." Does that make sense? >> Yeah, that does. And that's been like part of the question is I feel like I should be moved out already, >> but they're not rushing me to move out.

And my mom's always saying, "What's the rush for? You have no bills here. We pay for your food and whatnot." But it also I listen to you guys a lot and it could >> dwindle my growth as a man. Sure.

>> And I do wonder are they are they questioning how hard how hard you're working? >> Yes. >> Okay. They're putting some guilt on >> like a dog I leave. >> What does that mean? How many hours a week? >> Um probably over a hundred.

>> Oh wow. So it is about 110 to 120,000.

>> Okay. What are you doing? Is it a bunch of side hustles put together or one main job? >> I have a main job that makes 70k base.

>> Okay. >> And then I do a bunch of side hustles. I do freelance work. I'm a dog sitter. I do Uber. I teach at my alma matter.

>> Golly, well done.

>> Yeah. And I wonder is some of this

feeling like I need to pull back because of my parents' health and and spending quality time with them. That's coming from them more so than you.

Yeah. >> So there is a there is an interesting

season of life that

um I think happens naturally if you and

again not that this is right or wrong loose. I'm not saying this at all but if you like get you know you're out of college and you get married there's a natural break that happens.

or you get a job in a different city and your first job is like there's some

natural breaks that happen and when those don't naturally happen um which again is not a bad thing. It's not that you staying, you know, near your parents or still working and you like none of that is wrong, but it there's there's a harder dynamic to happen for a natural break to happen because it kind of naturally sets back into the norm of what you were like at 15 15year-old Lewis versus 23-year-old Lewis. And there's a difference there. And um

>> yeah, 15-year-old Lewis is at dinner every night. You you know, there's an expectation. >> Yeah. And I think too for some parents, and I don't want to put this on yours, but there's a there's a codependence there of that that you're around and you're there and they need you and all of this and >> No, there is.

I'm still vacuuming the house. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> Um, not outside of work.

>> Okay. I just wonder if there's like someone that knows you well um to help kind of guide this because I feel like this next season for you is really important to gain that independence and there's going to probably be some harder uncomfortable sad conversations with your parents and listen I have a son and I joke all the time that Charles can live with me forever because I just it's so >> but but when rubber meets the road I'm like no I want him to >> go out and become his own person. So, I'm like, there is a natural uh bent towards a mom and her son.

But the fact that they're putting a lot of weight on you, Lewis, in this and and

that makes me sad because you're going to have to untangle that yourself. Um,

and there's going to have to, yeah, be some harder conversations of some boundaries of what's good for you and not what's good for us as a family unit at this point in life, right? I just think that there's a >> Yeah, the unit h the unit changes over time. It morphs and it changes and none of it's all for good because you're you

have to be able to go out in life and do what they've done which is they started a family and they they built on what they had and you need to be able to go out and do that too. And I I honestly would probably challenge you to do that sooner. Like you don't need to have paid off this 90,000 in debt before you go

live on your own. Um, I I would say to

rent, like you can't go buy something because you're in debt, but you can go rent an apartment and have a roommate and kind of get that taste of independence. And I think at the core of this, this is no longer a money question. I think it was more about you feeling good about going out and being Lewis. And, you know, yeah, our parents

age and they get older and the time shrinks and we figure out what that looks like in our in our life as adults with other things that we're balancing.

Um, and that's kind of that's kind of

like the facts of life. It's just kind of the way it happens. And >> yeah, you're not a bad son, Lewis. And on fire, but I I would start I'm with Jade. I would I would start kind of pushing some some um changes for you,

right? And this is all for you and you're not doing anything wrong. So, hear me say that. Everything that you laid out, I'm like, nothing here is is wrong. >> That's right. Well, that does it for this hour of the show. Thanks for hanging out with us. And remember, there's only ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 234. There Is Hope When Debt and Life Feel Overwhelming | January 14, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:49:38 |

---

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you [music] transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show.

I'm George Kamel joined by best-selling author Dr. John Delony and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. [music]

Jeff is going to kick us off in Jacksonville, Florida. What's going on, Jeff?

How you doing? What What can we help you with today?

What's happening? Well, my wife over the last 8 to 10 years has

taken on a a series of I don't guess the

term is predatory loans.

Uh now totaling right around $300,000.

All without my knowledge, of course.

Goodness gracious.

Yes. >> What kind of When you say predatory loans, what what type of loans are these exactly?

You broke up on us, Jeff.

I'm sorry. It's uh it's the ones where they send you a check in the mail.

And they say cash this. And you fill out some paperwork online.

And they deposit the money straight into your account.

Okay. So, I'm trying to figure out the actual Was this one company that she just kept falling for this over and over? No, it was multiple.

Wow. And so, they basically say cash this check, aka it's a loan as soon as you cash it. Correct. It says you're pre-qualified for X number of dollars.

>> What did she use the money for?

She blew it. There's There's nothing to show >> a decade you had no inkling that this was happening. That is correct. That's the most shocking part of all of this.

It is.

Wow. What did she say she spent it on?

When she said she blew it, was there an addiction involved here?

No. No, just just blew it. Amazon, uh who knows? I mean >> And you never thought, "Hey, where's she getting all this stuff?" Because I know it's coming out of our account. I'm guessing there is no our account. Is it your money and her money?

Well, it is, yes. And it's always been that way?

No, uh it wasn't when we were first married. Uh we separated for a few months.

Oh, back in the 2010 time frame.

And of course, I obviously separated our finances.

And then when we reconciled, we never

we just never really got around to it.

And everything was fine uh until she retired She retired this past January. [clears throat] And everything was fine until she retired, obviously took a pay cut.

And didn't have the money. Feels like a bad time to retire when you're $300,000 in debt.

That is correct. >> guys have other debts?

No, well, our house. Okay. And what's your household income?

Uh about 125.

And that's just you?

No, no. That's in That's her retirement and and me. Okay.

Woo. And you're willing to go, "Hey, this is this is us." She made the mess, but it's our mess to clean up.

I don't know that I have a choice at this point.

I mean, you've always got a choice.

Yeah, but that's not a choice I'm

All right, there we go. That's what I was hoping I was hoping for some ownership there. Not some victim, but some owner. And I love that.

>> No. I love that you said >> I'm I'm Yeah, I'm I'm I'm definitely taking taking part of the you know, responsibility.

But no, I can't I would never leave her over something like that.

>> So, is she committed to not doing this playing this game anymore?

She is. And we're in the process of

recombining finances that way I can

if something like that were to happen again, I would know about it.

I I'm going to pass this to George to let him walk you through the just the process, but um if I were you, I don't I don't know the the help I get from leading with these were predatory loans. They were. They are.

But I think it helps it it kind of takes the edge off my wife did a thing repeatedly and hid it from me for a decade. We need to deal with that part of this.

And then together, we're going to heal both the trust in our marriage and be like you said, we're going to do some things very tangibly. We're going to combine income. We're going to be very diligent on a budget. We're going to tackle this debt together. She retired, she's going to have to go back and get a job cuz y'all are 300 plus in the hole now, plus all the interest that's racked up on this madness. Like we're going to tackle this problem together.

Um but I I would I would Yes, there's bad people out in the world. Yes, they took advantage, but also this is something This is a daily practice that happened over a daily deception that happened over a decade. Blaming it in any shape, form, or fashion on the lenders right now is just a distraction from the problem that y'all two have together.

You get what I'm saying? Yeah. I agree 100%. I just uh I just didn't know a a better term >> No, I mean, you're right.

It's I I hate it. I wish it was outlawed. It's miserable. >> practice.

But when you get bit by the snake once and you go back for eight more bites, at some point you got to go, "I guess I was I was a part of Yeah. And then you hide the bites from the person that you're supposed to be doing life like side by side with, right? So, that that to me is the bigger issue than these Yeah.

>> How much does she have in retirement?

Uh well, she draws Social Security and she's got a a pension that I don't know exactly what's in her pension. Uh between the between the two, she brings in roughly 70 between 70 and 75,000 a year.

Okay. And how much of that you guys actually need to cover your bills?

Do you guys have any margin right now?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um

Our We've got a house payment. That's it. I mean, we >> What's the house payment? How much? 27.

And then what's your total take-home pay for the month between the two of you?

About it's roughly $4,500.

Okay. That doesn't leave a whole lot of wiggle room after insurance, taxes, utilities,

food.

It It does not. >> But here here's the the napkin math. If you can put 50 grand a year towards these loans, they're done in 6 years.

Correct. And so, I don't know that you can scrape together. That's We're talking over 4 grand a month needs to be going towards these loans. Otherwise, the interest alone is going to keep ballooning the balance to where you'll never make progress.

So, you've got to get angry at these things. Right. But what I've actually done is I've contacted each lender individually.

And negotiated with them. And hopefully,

I'm going to be down in the 150 to 170 neighborhood is what I've

been able to negotiate so far.

>> Are they requiring lump sums for each of those? And that's the hitch. Is it I

would have to pay a lump sum.

>> Do you have any money you could use?

I don't have that kind of money. Well, I do. I mean, I I do have that in my retirement fund. And how old are you?

>> I'm 57. Okay. So, we're not going to touch those.

This might be Hey, in 3 years when I have access to retirement, if you have the funds, then we write the checks.

I was considering taking a second mortgage on my house paying it all in.

>> No. Jeff, then you're just adding to the mess. Now you're really putting your house on the block. Going in further into debt is not the solution to get out of debt. So, I would not do that. I would go for that settlement that you've been already going [music] after. And then do everything you can. She's going to have to work for the foreseeable future.

You're going to have to work for the foreseeable [music] future to clean this mess up. Wish you the best.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Andy is in New York City up next. Andy, welcome to the Ramsey show.

Hey guys. Hey, how can we help?

All right, I've been uh trying to talk to my wife about some stuff about trying to help out around the house, uh getting a job, uh but it seems like every time I bring something up uh and how I need her to contribute to the family, she tells me that I'm starting when I'm honestly not.

Um She tells me uh uh what uh I should be doing and uh

then she just turns around and just runs away from uh Uh we've been married from uh for about 4 years uh almost 5.

Uh she came from an abusive childhood. I bring home 35 a year, but after child support, it's about 27.

Uh I have uh 420 and $20 car payment.

Um I it's just been me and uh

I'm really struggling. I didn't know if you guys could help out.

Yeah, I I mean, it sounds like you're asking two different questions. One is a question about your money. Like, I'm what you bring home, the payments you have built into your life, that's that's a scary way to live. And you live in a very expensive part of the country, right? Like, that's a lot.

And doing this alone, and it sounds like you're telling your wife, "Hey, here's what I want. Here's what we need." And she's like, "Yeah, I don't care." That's got to be super frustrating and lonely and maddening and all those things all in one, right? But it sounds like you got two different challenges here. Um where would you like us to focus?

Um on us. Yeah.

So, when you say she doesn't help out around the house, she's not working, how does she spend her day currently?

Uh sitting, playing games, um How old is

she? She's 32. Do you guys have any children together?

No. Okay. So, it's not like she's staying at home with the kids. She's You say she's literally just playing video games all day. You go to work, you come home, you're doing all the house chores, the cooking, the cleaning.

Yeah, she cooks for the most part, but I have to do all the cleaning and everything else pretty much. And you feel like she's not pulling her weight in this marriage. Has it ever been different or has this been the case since day one?

Uh no, it was different uh back when we first started. Um What shifted? Gone downhill.

Did something happen in her life? Is she I mean, I'm guessing there's some anxiety, depression behind all of this.

Yeah, I I have no I have you dug into that directly. Have you Have you approached it from a place of empathy, of "Hey, what's going on? I

feel like you've been real down lately and just kind of vegging out, playing games, and there's this disconnection.

And, you know, what tell me about that versus "I need you to help out around the house and go get a job." You know, it sounds like you're her parent instead of a spouse.

No, I I've I've tried it and it it's

just "Oh, you're starting. You're starting. You're starting." when I'm just trying to have an honest general con- conversation about helping out. Um sought out help professionally?

Yeah, she sees a counselor uh once a week. Would she be willing to invite you or would she be willing to have you come with her?

Uh that could be an option. And here here's the way I would approach that. Um

this is you submitting. This is you taking a knee. And there's going to be people in the internet sphere that think this is bad and this is weak. It's not.

It's loving. It's connecting to someone who's clearly hurting.

Um and who's not experiencing the world in a real way, right? Because you have a big math problem, you have a marriage problem, you have a life, joy, [snorts]

and passion problem. You've got all the problems, right? So, so she's clearly not experiencing the world as it is. But she is experiencing the world as she feels it to be, right?

If you approached her and said, "I don't feel like I'm doing a good job connecting with you and loving you in a way that you can feel it. I'd love to come to one of your counseling sessions so your counselor could give me some insights on how I could be a better support system for you." And that might be an invitation um that she would extend to you that you could come to her session and from there maybe get some context on what she's telling this counselor, what the counselor is telling her, what kind of world you're inhabiting.

Cuz here's the here's the deal.

And what I mean by that is, are you going to leave?

Cuz if the answer is no, if the answer is till death do us part, I said I'll be here, then your energy is spent complaining,

your energy spent yelling, your energy spent fighting is wasted energy. I'm not going to leave. So, all of my energy is going to be towards finding some avenue, some shape, form, or fashion, some way that I can connect or deal with the reality that I've got a partner who's just going to scroll her life away. And we have a math problem and I'm going to have to go get a different job or two jobs or three jobs.

But you just continually fighting without an anchor point is it's just it it's not getting y'all anywhere, right? In fact, it's making everything worse.

Yep. And now you're in a place where you can't even say hi, I love you cuz then she goes, "Well, you're starting up again." and then it's over.

Yep. If she was to call into the show, what would she tell us about you?

How she experiences you?

How much I care about her and how much I try and do everything for her.

She She She'll say that, too, but like she'll just have her moments where she where I just try and have a general um honest conversation.

Yeah, it sounds like she's struggling with something bigger than just connectivity issues. And so, yeah, if if if there's a possibility that she would allow you to join her in a counseling session I think or two or three, I think that would be really beneficial for everybody. Um >> Okay. Let's talk about your money for a second, George. Yeah, how much debt do you currently have? What's the total balance of your consumer debt?

Um my consumer debt uh back in 2000 uh

21, we filed for bankruptcy because I had to. Um Why did you have to?

I was knee-deep in the swamp.

Uh I couldn't keep up with any payments.

Uh I had a broken scaphoid at the time.

Uh everybody was going to take me to court. Um So, did they wipe it clean or did you get put on a payment plan?

Nope, they wiped it clean.

Um And where are you today?

Uh now today uh I had a car that broke down.

Uh So, you had to get a payment.

So, I went and got a car payment. Yep.

Even though I told my wife that I didn't want to. Um So, she forced you. None of this has happened on your own volition is what I'm hearing. Everybody forced you into every decision you made that puts you in this terrible place.

Nope. Nope. I I went out Nope, I went

out and I got the car payment even though I didn't want to. That's what I was telling my wife. Um

So, we went out and got the car payment.

And then uh she also goes to school uh for nursing. You left that part out. I thought she was at home all day playing video games.

No, she is for the most part.

Okay. >> Except when she's going to become a medical professional?

What was that? Except when she's going to university to become a medical professional? Yeah, even our classes are at home some days.

But yes. Okay. So, what is the total balance today?

Uh today it's uh about 90,000. Goodness gracious.

Yep. And you make 30 grand a year?

Yep, and I make 30 grand a year.

Why do you make 30 grand a year?

Uh because I can't find a better job

that fits my schedule that I need.

What's the schedule that you need? What does that mean? Uh so, I have a daughter uh who lives about an hour and a half away from me that I have to go see uh every Tuesdays.

Uh that I pick up about uh 5:00.

And then >> think we need to readjust the schedule to go, "Hey, this Based on my work schedule, I can't make this happen.

You're not going to be able to afford child support at this point. [music] So, you need to make some serious changes, Andy. I mean, all the way around. And yes, there's other people involved, but all I've heard so far is I had to, I have to, I had no choice, she made me. I think we just need to control what we can control, and that's the guy in the mirror, and then we can work on the stuff around it. Wish you the best.

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>> [music] >> Alicia's in Chicago up next. Alicia, what's going on?

Hi. So, I uh So, basically, long story

short, um I had a manic episode and put myself into a little bit of debt, and I want to know where to start with the baby steps to get myself out of the situation I put myself into. Oh, very cool. So, uh when you say a manic episode, are you diagnosed bipolar?

Yes, I am. Okay. One or two?

Uh I believe it is two. It's the genetic one. Okay. Um uh different conversation, but um So, have you had manic episodes before?

Yes, I have, but they were not as extreme as this one. Uh tell tell me about it. So, basically, I was having a lot of family trouble, and then I had health problems, too. So, I also have endometriosis. I had a flare-up and had to have emergency surgery, and it was just a complication of everything all together that I think what made it a really bad episode for me.

>> Yeah. So, tell me about the payday loans you took out. How bad is it?

Um so, the original total amount was like 2,300 and something, and with all

that interest, it is approximately $5,800 with all that interest.

>> Mm. Gosh. I don't I don't know how those people sleep, to be honest with you. I just don't, but Yeah. I'm not very happy about it. I know. I know. I know. Okay. So, question number one is do you have your Are you Are you

I've seen I've seen friends, I've seen colleagues, I've seen countless students of mine over the years who are diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and and and you know it's on a spectrum, various various levels of it, um who

when when they commit to med management, when they actually take their meds, and when when they feel great and when they don't feel great. Um and when they put in some what I would call, for lack of a better term, some hurdles.

When I feel myself beginning to start

down a path where I'm going down to the basement, or when I'm starting on a path where I'm about to go to the mountain top, I know I'm going to give my debit card to a trusted friend.

I am going to turn my internet off for 7

days. Right? So, they put some really big hurdles to protect themselves from themselves in those seasons.

Um do you have Are you taking care of your medications? Are you seeing a professional? Are you Are you managing this thing in a in a healthy way?

Yes. So, we were in the process of figuring out what dose worked for me last year, like what medications, and that's when I had the episode. So, it wasn't the correct medication. Now, I'm actually on the correct one. So, I don't know if it's okay for me to disclose the type, but >> Well, it it it doesn't matter for this conversation, but I just want to tell you I'm proud of you.

Thanks. Thank you. And No, I want you to commit to me and George and everyone listening, you're going to stay on the plan. Okay?

Okay. And that's awesome. Now, when it comes to getting this paid off, George will walk you through it. It's a It's a It's a math problem, but we fully believe you can get there. Is that And you don't believe in yourself, we probably believe in you more than you do right now, but hear us say we believe in you.

Okay. Okay?

Same team?

Same team. Awesome. Awesome. I'm really glad that you called. So, give me some more details about your financial picture. Are you working full-time right now?

No. So, I'm actually going back to school for human resource management and business management, cuz I want to get a better career. Right now, I'm really just working as a waitress, so my income isn't like What's the proper term I'm looking for? It's not like a set-in-stone thing. It's always flip-floppy, and it's So, you're working part-time as a waitress, and then part-time school?

Yeah. Okay. What other debts do you have right now? Um I have a student loan debt that is only 3,000, but that's on deferment right now cuz I'm in school. Okay. And then, there's one dental debt that I'm still paying back cuz I had to get my teeth fixed. And then, um the last one

was a previous collection from a credit card when I was like really young that I decided to open in me. Anyhow, it's getting taken care of. Have Have you ever been debt-free in your adult life?

Um I guess technically not because like I opened my first credit card at 18. It was a student credit card. Didn't we all? So, I want I want you to just picture Alicia for the first time in her adult life completely debt-free with savings in the bank to cover any emergency that would come up. How good would that feel? Oh, it feel really great.

It's It's a thing you don't have right now, which is peace.

Yeah. Right? And trust in

when I'm having a good day, I'm having a bad day, I'm having a really really wild week or really low week, I'm okay.

It's It's a magic feeling for somebody in your situation. It's a magic feeling for all of us, but especially for somebody whose inner world can be as volatile as yours is, right?

Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Do you have any money in your checking account or savings account right now?

Um in my savings, I only have like 10 bucks right now, unfortunately. I do have 200 in cash savings, but that I was saving for like emergencies for my pet if something happens with her. Okay.

Well, let me walk you through the baby steps cuz this is the framework that will help you actually have a very tactical plan instead of just trying to do a few good things at once. And so, baby step one is get a thousand dollars saved. So, you have 200 now. That's awesome. We're on the path to getting a thousand. So, right now, can you make minimum payments on your debts while working part-time, or do we need to up the the income?

Um it's most If I do minimum payments and everything, it is doable with the income right now. Okay. Now, minimum payments on that payday loan, that balance grew since we've been on the phone. Yeah. That's the scary part. And so, I want you to get angry at this thing, and that might mean we need to take a semester off and go really hard and work 50 hours a week to at least knock out the payday loan.

Okay. What's the trajectory for this program that you're in? How much longer and how much money?

Um so, luckily, financial aid covers everything, and I've been doing scholarships, so I haven't had to pay for a penny for school, luckily.

Um And how much longer do you have?

I believe it is 2 years. So, here's the bad news. We can't go two more years working part-time as a waitress and make any financial progress. Would you agree?

Probably, yeah. And so, we need to figure out a different path. Maybe it's a pause, maybe you do less school right now, less credits, and it takes you longer, but you could go work full-time and clean this up, get some money in savings, and then go back to school with a whole lot more peace. Cuz right now, it's probably hard to focus on your school work when you see that interest accruing on that loan. Yeah, definitely.

Mm. So, once you get a thousand bucks saved, which I hope happen What do you make in a week?

Um so, just to average it out, probably like 300. There are some weeks where I can get up to like 500, 700, but you

know, it's not always guaranteed. >> So, you're living off of like $1,200 a month? Yes. Are you able to do that without going further into debt right now?

Uh yes. So, luckily, just because of my low income, you know, I have food stamps, and I'm able to get food and everything. My living situation is basically just pay what you can, so I have no rent. So, so far, it's actually been really doable, and I have like a really cheap phone plan where it's only like 25 bucks a month.

Wow. Well, I don't want you to stay there. This is not like a well, I can make it all work. You're in survival mode. This is literal poverty. And that That's the

exact target demo these payday lenders go after because they're the most vulnerable, the most desperate.

And so, this is going to take a lot of work, literal work. And that might mean we get two waitress jobs, and, you know,

we ratchet down on school, ramp up on income just for even a season so that we can get our head above the water.

Okay. Cuz once you have a thousand dollars saved, now Now can start tackling these debts and just list them out from smallest to largest. So today, this is going to really help you get it out of your brain. Put them all the debts on paper and put the balances and list them in order from the smallest balance to the largest balance. So your next goal after getting a thousand dollars is throw as much as you can on that smallest debt.

Okay. That might be the dental debt. I don't know. And maybe I'm guessing your credit is shot at this point. No one's going to go give you a personal loan, correct? Yeah, no. Um, I I know my score is like

625, but I don't think anybody's going to give me a loan or anything. >> Yeah. I'm trying to get you out of this payday loan cycle cuz if this is going to be another year before you can attack this payday loan, the balance is going to be 10 grand.

Yeah. Yeah, that is probably scary.

>> have to stop the bleeding and if that means the the dream of the HR job is on pause, I'm okay with that cuz I don't want you to look up and now it feels hopeless because this loan just keeps doubling and doubling because it's [music] three or 400% APR.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, Alicia. Hang on the line. We're going to hook you up with our budgeting app Every Dollar to help you make a plan for every one of those dollars coming in >> [music] >> and hopefully you'll see some light at the end of this tunnel soon.

>> [music]

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Karen is in Denver up next. Karen, welcome to the show.

Thank you. How can John and I help?

So this year, my husband and I would like to start saving for retirement.

Um, but in our budget, we only have

about 500 a month to put towards that.

Um, so my question is, is it

better for us to open

one Roth IRA and put the full 500 in

each month or for each of us to get one and split it in half or if there's if that makes a difference at all.

Well, as far as growth goes, it'll be the exact same.

Okay. Now, are you guys in a financial place to invest? Do you have any debt right now outside of a mortgage?

No, we don't have debt. Um, we have a

emergency fund.

And the reason our budget is lower for

retirement is we're trying to save for a house this year. So we're pretty much putting everything we can towards saving for down payment and closing costs and all that. Got it. So you're in what we would call baby step 3B where you're you can sort of split the difference here where you can choose your own adventure and invest anywhere from zero to 15% while saving up for that down payment. So how long is the down payment going to take?

Um, we're hoping we can do it in the next 12 months. Awesome. And so after that 12 months is over, you guys get into a home, would you then ramp that up to 15% of your household income and could you?

Um, we live in a pretty expensive place.

Um, so I don't know if we could do a the full 15%, but I think we would like to increase it over time as we can.

Okay. How expensive are we talking? Cuz when you say we're going to save up a down payment, we're going to buy a home, how much is this mortgage going to be in comparison to your take home pay?

Um, so

for the area we live in, pretty much the

the cheapest houses we can get is between 400 and 450. So that's our goal.

Okay. Um, and my husband,

he a lot of his work is commission, but

the goal would be to make about 150 this

year before taxes.

Okay. Are you working outside the home as well?

Um, I'm may I'm just bringing in between

like 500 and 1500 a month. Okay. So

let's add another 10 or 12 to that.

150? Okay. Mhm. So here's the good news

is you guys have a great income and I hope you're able to get that house within 12 months. My fear is that if you

if it's too tight to invest 15%, it's always going to feel too tight and that's going to leave you guys with, you know, probably needing to work later in life in order to catch up on retirement.

Mhm. So that's something I would consider. You can plug some numbers into an investment calculator to get a a better picture of what that's going to look like, but you know, you guys are young, you got time. Just make it a goal to get to that 15% mark and that might mean we need to cut other expenses.

That might mean we can't afford to live in the area we wanted to. It might mean you need to be working part-time or full-time in order to make the numbers work. And so whatever you guys do, uh, make peace with that decision and hopefully you'll get to that baby step four mark in no time. Silas is in Des Moines up next.

Hey, uh, I appreciate you guys taking my call.

Um, it was actually your book, George, that got me to take financial situations a lot more seriously, so I appreciate that. >> Awesome. Love to hear it, man.

So what's serious now? What'd you get serious about?

Uh, well, we've been trying to me and my wife have been trying to be better about budgeting. Haven't had the best time with that. But recently, we found out that, uh,

we have some settling going on underneath our house and our foundation is dropping a little bit. >> [snorts] >> And we've only got a couple quotes on it so far. The first one was 12,000, second one was like 24,000.

And we don't have that kind of money and

so just not sure what the best way is to han- best way is to handle this knowing that it could get worse, but not knowing how fast it could get worse and Yeah. How much money do you have saved?

A thousand dollars. Okay. And you still have some debt to pay off?

Uh, yeah, we've got just a little over 9,000 dollars of debt. Okay.

And what's your household income?

Uh, 60,000. Give or take. Is that both

of you working?

Uh, no, just me. Just you. Okay. Is she home with the kids?

Yeah, she's home with her our son. Okay.

So I imagine money's already tight as it stands, let alone thinking about, you know, cuz if if if you need to, you know, solve this problem within 6 months, let's say. Well, you need to save two grand for 6 months straight to get 12 grand to make the repair. Mhm. You tracking with me?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And that feels like it's going to be a lot from your take home pay. So this might be a a season where we say, "Hey, we're going to pause the the baby steps if this is a really urgent matter and within 6 months we need to scrape together 12 grand." Mhm. Okay. Yeah, we've been spending today was the first day we've been trying to find extra work. I'm trying to find extra work. She she applied at a place and and

so we're trying to find find that. I just don't know. Would I don't cuz the other issue I have is um, I don't I'm not I'm not certain if we can afford the house even without the issues. Oh, wow. Like the mortgage itself?

Yeah. Yeah, cuz our mortgage payment with escrow is like 1400 and I bring home about three grand a month. You bring home three grand?

>> already concerned about Yeah, I'm already concerned about that, but I don't know if she's as concerned about that. How do you make 60, but you take home 36 grand? 60 is some with bonuses. I get a couple

bonuses a year. Okay. Uh, and then in the past, I've had a lot more overtime work, not as much this last year.

>> I think we're going to need some in the present and the future until we get to a better spot financially.

And so I would have her working if she's able to. I think you're going to need to ratchet up the overtime and maybe a part-time job on top of that because right now I don't think the mortgage is the the big problem here. I think long term you get your income a little higher we can make this work. If you're making, you know, five or six grand a month now these numbers aren't that scary.

It's not like you have a $4,000 mortgage payment. That's a reasonable, you know, you're going to pay 1,400 bucks in rent somewhere. And so this is I would do you have a professional that's looked at it who said, "Hey, this you need to deal with this within this time frame." That's what we're working on.

Uh most of the the two companies we've had come out they kind of just like it, you know, they don't know how fast it's necessarily progressing or how bad it actually is. So we thought about we've been uh thinking about trying to find a maybe just a local inspector or something like that that can come in and maybe try to get a little bit better idea.

Mhm. That would be money well spent just for your peace of mind.

Mhm. And then maybe you track it and go, "Hey, here's how it's progressing based on what he said and if it gets to this point we got we got to make this happen." But I would act like you need to make this happen next month in the fire that's under you guys to get to work and get this money saved.

Mhm. Okay. And so if that means pausing the baby steps right now cuz you're in storm mode because it is an emergency, great. Maybe the inspector says, "Hey, I wouldn't worry about this right now. I'd check back in a year." Well, that gives you some breathing room to go, "Okay, we [clears throat] can knock out our debt and get this foundation repair money saved up." Mhm. Okay. >> So we need a a few more facts here to give us some peace about the next steps, but I think you're well on your way.

Um the income is really the the glaring issue here and the good news is that's fully in your control.

It's not going to be fun, but for six months or a year you can do just about anything and suffer through it and live to tell the tale. So I wish you guys the best on the journey to debt freedom and

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Kamel joined by Dr. John Delony and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

You call us up, we'll help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Ryan is in Flint, Michigan up next. Ryan, what's your question today?

Uh how are you doing, gentlemen? God bless. Um I have a few questions, but the main one I'm trying to get through is that I we've been listening me and the wife have been listening to um Dave Ramsey's uh Total Money Makeover. I've listened to one of his seminars about baby steps

and we're trying to dial in a few things. Um now I don't know if you want me to go into how much we make and then how much of a debt or not to help with these questions. Well, you tell me the question and then we'll dig in with some follow-ups. All right, thank you, sir. Um first one is that I know you guys said something about a savings should be around 1,000.

We have about 9,000 in our savings and we have a car the one car that we have that's debt that we want to pay off and that's roughly around 10 to 11,000. Okay. And it's and we're just kind of not used to not having some kind of um I guess oh crap money to fall back into.

And uh we have >> Um no, we have the car and as I've been

listening to the books and what you guys say I've I've been lied to so you must excuse me about this, but we have a car, we have two leased trucks. Our biggest is our house our mortgage and then from what I understand we have two loans that we took out on our 401 or Roth. Oh. But

we pay ourselves back on those ones.

>> [clears throat] >> Well, yeah. But you unplugged all the growth and paying interest so Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

>> I'm less concerned about your oh crap emergency fund and more more of your oh crap debt that you guys have racked up.

How much do you guys make?

Uh between me and my wife total probably around 200. Wow.

That's a great income.

Yeah, we're just not great. So uh I mean we ran into some issues. We moved in and we outlived let's just say we outlived what we had and what we had coming in until we got to the point where we were just about underwater.

Uh the wife had 34,000 I think on her cards. I took the loan out of my 401 to pay her card off. She took another loan out to pay the credit card off. So once the credit card was paid off I thought, "Well, man, we should be getting an extra thousand or 1,500 bucks a month." And it just didn't start equating to that. It just disappeared into more spending lifestyle creep. >> Into more You got it 100% sir.

>> That's the American dream right there. You summed it up. Okay, so you've been robbing Peter to pay Paul, playing whack-a-mole, taking out one debt to pay off the other debt. What is your question today specifically that we can help with?

Okay, so once we pay off the car with the savings that we have now do we just keep a thousand in there or because of our expenses say our mortgage and whatnot should we keep a little bit more money than a thousand in there?

The thousand dollars does not change based on expenses or income. It's a flat thousand dollars and it's not meant to cover everything. And so if something did occur where you needed more than a thousand dollars to cover an emergency, you would simply pause the baby steps and that next check that comes in you would use toward the emergency. You'd sell stuff. You'd work extra. You'd cut your lifestyle down to nothing until you got through the emergency. Now we're back to the baby step two paying off our consumer debts.

Excellent. And now the next one would be so I should obviously from what you said I should not we should not be borrowing from our 401 because of the interest we'd be missing out on the accumulated interest. Yeah. There's like 14 reasons why it's a bad idea, but we won't get into that today. Just if are you committing live in front of America that you are done borrowing money? That's the big question I have for you. No more leases, no more 0% cards, no more borrowing from retirement. Are you guys done with debt?

Yeah, we're done. That's kind of where 100% I I'm more committed than I would

say my wife is committed too and I'm very committed on it cuz I'm tired of living the paycheck to paycheck life. That's just that for what we make and what we do we should be able to be fine and live way better and you know, at least have more money in the savings. So I'm 100% committed. It's just these few of these questions that I'm having I'm trying to rationalize in my head to get my head around wrap around how I how you guys want us to do this.

Have you guys ever created a budget together where you actually sat down and said, "All right, here's the paychecks coming in. Here's all of our expenses for the month. We're going to track our transactions." Sir, we just have we've been married we've been together almost 20 years and about maybe two two and a half years ago we just put our accounts together. Wow, congrats.

>> Welcome to the big leagues. Yeah, I know, right. That's when we paid off the debt and that's when we started, you know, okay, we need to accumulate. So primarily what we do right now is most of our stuff comes out of our savings account slash checking account and then we like for groceries and other things that we have to buy for the most part goes to the credit card and then we just pay the credit card off every >> Oh, we there's a new character has entered the scene here, the credit cards.

Tell me about those. >> How many do you have and is there a balance? It's just one and there's usually there's only the balance for the week prior which is gas if we get groceries and that's pretty much about it. So we put gas, groceries or maybe a few other bills I'm I'm going to have to look to see that goes on it, but we pay it off pretty much every week with every check.

We don't occur a balance and let the balance hold on it cuz we just paid off 34,000. So we're not trying to get a balance on it.

Wow. So we're just you told me you're not going to borrow money, but you're okay temporarily borrowing someone else's money with the promise of paying it back within the week. It's like, "Hey, bro bro, I got you. I got you at the end of the week." Essentially that?

And so here's my challenge to you and I put this in my book Breaking Free from Broke.

And the goal is let's see if you didn't have more peace in your life, if you didn't create more margin to throw at the debt, if you didn't miss the credit card rewards you thought you were getting. And what I found is most people go, "Oh my gosh, instead of the 2% cash back, I spent 10% less than I was spending." Yeah, that sounds about right. And we only did this cuz of my financial my 401k guy said to do this. And and the main the main question was >> What is a 401k guy?

You have like a financial advisor told you to open the credit card? That's exactly what he said. He said we should have everything going under the credit card that we pay and then just pay that off.

Uh no, that was from I did that from Fidelity from my work because I get work and matching and I'm able to just go in there myself and take out. But that was he told me that's what I should do in order to pay the credit card off.

>> I say this with all due respect, you've got to fire that guy before the day is over and get a new guy. I've been feeling like that. I just told my wife the other day. >> [laughter] >> Just the other day I told her I go, "Something just not right with what I what what this guy is doing and I'm just not feeling right about it." >> You've been following his advice for years and you're broker than ever.

Yeah, yeah. I can't I can't Are you guys still investing as well? My guess is you're still putting some money into retirement. >> I am at 8%. I think I get a 3 and 1/2 to

4% match from work and my wife is roughly around the same. Um we had rolled over a previous 401 into this Roth with this guy. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I didn't know you could contribute to your retirement once you take a loan against it until it's paid back.

I can contribute. Yeah, the contribute no it it mine is is it takes a certain portion out on top of my percentage that I'm putting in for the possible Okay.

Okay. Well, here here's another thing I would encourage you to do is to stop all investing until this mess is cleaned up.

Cuz right now you're doing 17 things at once and you're not seeing progress on any of it.

I got you. With a debit card, you're saying just go to debit card and just don't even worry about credit cards then. Exactly. I've been living that life for like 13 years.

Uh I'm going to send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. I cover the whole debit card credit card thing in the credit card chapter. So read that and I'm going to hook you up with EveryDollar. This is going to be like John and I in your pocket coaching you 24/7 with new recommendations based on where you're at financially and educating you along the way.

So hang on the line, we'll get you the book and EveryDollar. I'm rooting for you, Ryan. This is a solvable problem.

There's no reason to be this broke.

>> [music]

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Jamie is in Chicago up next. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Hey George, hi John. How are you? We're doing great. How can we help today?

So um I've been following uh the plan

for quite a while. I got rid of my car.

I paid down all my debt. The only two things I have left are my student loan debt and my mortgage. Awesome.

>> I owe 98,000 on and unfortunately on my

student loans I owe today 142,000.

Oof. Last Wednesday, I learned that my

position at my job is going to be eliminated >> Oh, man. >> and I will be without a job on February 1st or on 2nd. And um

I am kind of freaked out. Yeah.

>> I feel like I don't have I only have about 25 in uh 401k

and obviously I'd want to get that student loan debt out of the way, but with uh my separation I'll get a severance package, but it's only going to be about 16,000 and that's before taxes. So I am not sure

So that floats you three months? What do you think? Yes. Yes, three months. Okay.

What do you do?

I am a facility planner.

For a guy who's not very smart >> manage >> What's that? for a large healthcare company. I manage uh the

plans before plans and where people sit and Okay. So like physical >> things like that. >> You help with the logistics. What's your chance of getting a new job quickly?

Um I hope well good, but I it took me a

couple of years to get that job.

>> Okay. So um John, I'm glad you're on this call. You'll understand this. I was on disability for some years and um was

able to get back into the job >> market and uh this was the position I landed and it's been a really good position for me. I work from home. Yeah.

So um I'm kind of nervous about, you know, kind of the things that go around with social anxiety and those kinds of things, so So I'm I'm going to I'm going to give you a word I'm going to give you a word it will be, but I'm going to give you a word that most it may cause some people listening to inhale sharply, okay?

Okay. But I'm telling you this word because I believe in you and I trust in you, okay?

You have an absolute emergency on your

hand.

Yes. >> And >> Agreed. And you have proven to yourself

you have documented evidence over the last few years

that you are not who you once were.

Exactly. And these kind of big events, a

job loss, a somebody passing away who we care about, our body wants to drag us

right back into this is how we always handle things.

Right. And what we you have a bonafide

emergency and you've got a tiny little runway to land the plane, right?

Right. >> And so what we're not going to do is turtle up.

We're not go we're going to grieve the heck out of this thing, but I'm going to say this and it's going to sound crazy. We're going to grieve it later.

What we're going to do is start applying for jobs like mad. And we're not looking

for careers, we're not looking for exact

replicas, we're not looking for perfect work-from-home situations. We're looking for two jobs that we're going to go to in the morning and in the evening and we're going to feel the social anxiousness. We're going to feel it and then we're going to go through it because we have an emergency on our hands. And on the other side of this you're going to be so freaking strong

that the landscape of jobs available to you will double or triple in scope.

You get what I'm saying?

Yes, I do. It's going to be hard, it's going to be scary, and your body's going to want to go back to what it has done in the past, which is turtle up and just um and wave the white flag. And we're not doing that this time. You've come too far.

Exactly. And that's exactly why I'm calling because I felt like um I was my

my instinct was to go back to that old thinking and it's like, "No, I've come so far, why would I do that?" I >> We're going to apply for coffee shop jobs, we're going to apply for maintenance [clears throat] shop we're going to apply for every a waitress jobs, everything. Everything.

Okay. Everything. Cuz cuz what you need right now is A a reason to get up in the morning and B you need money.

Think about this. If you could work so hard that you didn't need to touch the 16k and you could throw that whole thing at the debt once you get some stability >> That's the goal. you're going to be on cloud nine.

Yeah, exactly. That's what I was thinking and I just Make that the goal.

Now you're not a bad person if you touch the 16 grand. I'm not mad if you use the severance, but how cool would it be if you didn't and it really propelled your baby steps. Instead of waiting three months, the money runs out and you go, "Well, I guess I need to find a job now." That's not going to help anything, so I'm not going to do that. We're going to apply for fancy jobs and and you you know the difference what I'm saying.

We're going to apply for those in the evenings and at night.

Okay, sounds good. We're going to send you Ken Coleman's Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Career Assessment in there. And what it's really going to help you do is figure out, "Hey, what are the skills behind the work I've been doing that I really love and enjoy and I'm good at?

And then what other roles can I apply that to?" Cuz right now you're thinking, "I need to I'm going to type in these keywords." And I think there's so many underlying skills. You can take a logistical nightmare and clean it up and organize it. Sure. That's an amazing skill to have that you can apply into anything.

Project management. That would be a great field for you.

I have a degree in interior design and a a degree in psychology.

I love it. Have you pursued interior design at all as a career?

I did and that's kind of why it took me so long to find this job because I felt like um I wanted a very specific commercial job and it just wasn't happening. So then I was I found this job. A recruiter reached out. Well, on top of your uh you know, your job shopping, I'd contact 10 interior design companies in your area and say, "Hey, I have a degree in interior design. I'm ready to start tomorrow." Okay, I will do that.

I mean, you got the degree in it. You spent a pretty penny to get it. Might as well give it your best shot. This might be the the on-ramp you needed to go, "I needed to get laid off in order to go pursue the thing that I really wanted to do." But here's your keyword. Okay.

We're going to go.

Go. We're going to act. There will be no hours left unspent twiddling our thumbs.

>> Yeah, you're going to [clears throat] you're going to close your computer screen and go for a quick walk around your neighborhood and you're going to put your head on your pillow exhausted cuz you've been working so hard.

The energy has to go somewhere, right? It can paralyze you or you can do it to solve this present emergency.

Exciting. She's She's paralyzed in excitement right [laughter] now.

That's so great, Jamie. Thank you for the call. John, let let's talk about this cuz a lot of people We talked about this on the show that it's it's like losing a loved one. Like the grief of losing a job and the the shame, the guilt, the fear. It's like all the emotions are there. >> And in her situation, having a diagnosed anxiety condition, the thing about anxiety that's the worst is the only way through it is through it.

And so, you're going to have all of this these feelings. You're going to have all these emotions.

She has an emergency. And millions of Americans have an emergency and what many [clears throat] people do when there's an emergency is either they run around bananas or just creating more

mess or they just take their foot off the gas, put the car in park, and exhale. And she doesn't have that luxury. She owes couple hundred thousand dollars in various things, right? So, we're going to be have some direction. We're going to go get a job, get some money, get some connections. We're going to apply for some jobs. We're going to read a book. We're going to have coffee with somebody who's in a job adjacent.

We're going to go do a bunch of stuff.

And the weight of this, dude, I got fired. They took my job away. That That grief will be there, but we're going to We don't have the luxury of just stopping for a season. We've got to go get a job. We're going to go, go, go, go. I love that. An

object at rest stays at rest. Once you stop, it is so hard to get moving again.

You get comfy, you get your favorite blanky, you're watching your favorite Netflix show, and you go, "Well, that's

a problem for tomorrow me." >> Yeah, it's hard, George. If I'm If it's like 9:00, I go to bed early cuz I'm a nerd. And I sit on the couch and just say, "I'm going to watch one show." It is so hard to get up from the couch and just go to my room to bed, right? I should have just stayed up and gone to bed and got the extra 30 minutes or 45 minutes of sleep.

Similar here.

And now you're going to be in a real mess. So, you got a job You're They're taking your job away in a month.

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One of our favorite things is hearing people share their stories of how they're winning with money and we just heard this from Claire and Winston.

This is me and my husband's third month budgeting with the EveryDollar app and I'm amazed how much money we found. We went from feeling like we were living paycheck to paycheck to finding $3,500

of extra margin each month to put toward our debt. We each had four credit cards and have been able to pay them all off never going back.

We love to hear stories like that and the truth is you can do this, too. That's not just a Claire and Winston thing. That's an anyone thing. You can take control of your money. You can change your family tree and live like no one else and it starts by downloading the EveryDollar budgeting app for free in the App Store or Google Play. Go see how much extra margin you can find with a little bit of that coaching and encouragement. Lee is in San Antonio up next. What's going on, Lee?

Hi. Hey, how can we help?

Well, so my question I'm a little unique. So, I went through a divorce in 2024.

Um and by the grace of God um as of the holiday season of this year, we are reconciling and God's restoring our marriage. >> Wow. Yeah, it's really beautiful. Um my question, however, has to do with So,

um when we were married before, um I was not great in the financial department. Um my husband was with the same company for almost 20 years. Hard worker, always provided. I kind of jumped from job to job, wasn't the best with the money.

Um racked up a $10,000 credit card, all of that. So, over the past year while we were apart, um I uh graduated from FPU

and have followed Dave Ramsey.

Um and I've I'm working with a company right now to pay off my credit card. So, I'm hopeful that in within the next couple months that will be paid off. So, I will myself be debt-free.

Um my question really is I know that Dave is pretty vocal about his opinion that when a couple is married, that there is no my money, it's our money.

So, understandably given my past behavior, um my husband is a little hesitant to go back to commingling our funds. So, I'm just kind of looking for some guidance on how he and I can navigate that this time. Um just you know, as we

that trust is built back up. Um and maybe just some guidance on how to navigate this this season. What other trust was broke in your previous time together?

Um well, there was no infidelity or anything like that. Um I honestly the story My story is that I really just was in a really bad place. I believed a lot of lies about myself and my marriage

and um the enemy convinced me that it was right to leave. And so, I just did.

I just picked up one day and I left. I didn't There was there was no seeking God in any of that. So, really the trust that was broken was just me giving up on

us. Okay. So, I want you to hear his hesitancy as not about money.

It's deeper than that.

If if If it was a surprise to him, not that y'all were in a tough season, not that you know, you were struggling or anything like that. Um but if it shocked him when you walked in and said, "I'm out." Mhm. I want you to see that for what it was, which is you pulled a pin on a grenade and rolled it into his life and exploded it. Yeah. Right? Now, every couple co-creates their relationship. That is what it is, right?

So, I'm sure he's would sit here and tell me he's not perfect. I get all that. But if you're going to truly say we're reconciling, you can't There is no reconciliation.

There is no I mean, you can get remarried. You can do whatever you want, but there's not a true remarriage if both of you don't have your feet in the boat.

And at the same time, he's still living He still has fresh scars from when this person he's getting back in the boat with shot a hole in the middle of the boat and then swam to another shore. You get what I'm saying? Of course. And so, here's the path back. The path back is,

"Will you give me being him to you a very clear road map that I can follow

to reestablish trust.

Cuz trust will not be re-earned in huge grandiose moments. It will be earned in a thousand tiny little ways over time.

And the commitment here is we're going to do this every 30 days, every 60 days.

And it's not you groveling. It's not like, "How am I doing? Do I get an A on trust this month?" It's not that. It is I want a clearer path back. If we're going to really get remarried, we're going to go all in on this thing again, both of us have to put our feet in the boat and you'd be crazy to do that all the way. I get that. So, I'm going to ride in your boat for a while. Like I'm going to ride shotgun with you.

What does a path to reestablish trust look like? And he's going to lay that path out. And then you get to decide whether I'm going to follow that or not.

Yeah. Right? And and here's the other thing. If he says I'm in, he's got to be all in, too, which means he has to risk that the person he's marrying does this to him again.

That's the risk of any great marriage and any great relationship at all, right? Is that you could get hurt.

So, he needs to give you a path. You need to ask him, not, "Hey, why aren't you sharing our money? You don't trust me." And not you heading hanging your head in shame saying, "I'm not trustworthy." We're past that. We're going to start establishing this. What does a path look like for me to reestablish trust? And let's take infidelity. Sometimes people say, "I want to see your phone every night. I want us to get new phone plans.

I want us to change our numbers. I want you to cancel all your social media." And here's the thing, the person who got cheated on can lay out whatever path they want and then the other person gets to decide whether I'm going to follow that path or not, whether I want to be a part of this relationship or not. And when that when you start walking that path, they can't weaponize the past because they have said, "I'm in this, too." Yeah. And and reestablishing money, like sharing your money together, is part of

Me and my wife share a single account.

George and his wife do. Dave and Sharon like the people that I know or that are successful and the data bears it out.

Couples who share finances do better because not cuz not just cuz of the money, but that means they share a picture on what they value, where they want to go with their life, what their shared vision is like all that stuff gets wrapped up in we all know where the money is and and all that. So, it's just you humbly asking for a clear road map.

And we're going to do one at 30 days, we're going to do one at 60 days, we're going to do one at 90 days and we're going to continue to work down this path together until both of you feel safe enough in your guts that both feet are in this boat and we are rowing the same direction.

Yeah. Can I give you some ideas, Lee, of some tactical things you could do that might it might make him go, "Who are you?" Number one, cut up all of your credit cards and close all of the accounts.

Okay. And then all of them Here here's the baller move, you freeze your credit.

And you give him the the passcode.

So that you can't open any type of account. You can't take on any type of debt if your account is frozen, if your credit's frozen. And then on top of that, say, "Hey, you know what? We're going to have a joint account, but I don't want the debit card right now.

And we're going to turn on transaction alerts so that anytime anything comes out of the account, we both get a text message of what happened." Or to celebrate you guys getting back together, we're going to give you a year of EveryDollar Premium.

Okay. Okay? But these are some things you can put on the table when he's like, "What are you talking about a road map to trust? I'm going to do this thing and this thing and this thing. I want to know what a path so that we can reestablish trust in this marriage. All in, both feet in the boat, both of us." Here's what I've already done. Here's what I'm doing now. Here's what I plan on doing.

I'd like check back in. And then maybe you guys agree on a timeline. Hey, we're going to check back in in 6 months from now. If all is good, then we're going to open the floodgates and it's going to be you know, we're just going to fly and build wealth together. And I you know, I I think that will prove to you more than to him That's exactly right.

>> He's not going to get a new trust you right now, Lee. You probably have some shame and guilt and baggage.

Yeah, for sure. And by the way, you have to have the courage to say,

"I don't want to reengage in this marriage if only one of your feet is going to be in the boat."

And so you get to say one of my one of

my bedrocks, one of the thing that's going to be important for us moving forward is that we get back to trusting each other enough to share money, to share whatever.

And so but I also know that's a tough scary thing right now, so I need a path.

But you get to say this is a big deal to me, not just I'm going to put my head down and go along with whatever he says cuz I screwed up and I'm I'm just a whipping [music] post. That's not it it won't work that way.

Right. You know what I'm saying? I'm proud of you. Thank you. This is a big step, Lee, and I'm so just inspired by the reconciliation and I hope that you guys are fully reconciled soon. Full unity, building wealth together like never before with an amazing marriage. So, hang on the line, we're going to send you EveryDollar. That'll impress him.

Go, "Hey, I'm working on my budget this month. You want to take a look?" Like who who is this person? Or our budget. Now we're talking.

>> [music]

[music]

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Wyatt in Montana.

Dude, Wyatt sounds like he's from Montana. >> I love that name. We recently started the baby steps and me and my family are on step two. We've been snowballing pretty successfully. He sounds like a Wyatt. We've been snowballing pretty successfully by selling stuff and we're making good progress. Our question is that with all the stuff that's going on around the world, how is it rational to stick to this? My instinct is to use extra cash right now to cash flow stocking up on food, ammo, and water.

Should we really stick to the baby steps or make sure our family is ready for any unexpected disaster? Wow. This could

have been a question from John Delony in Nashville. You wish you were Wyatt in Montana.

>> I do. >> [laughter] >> Okay, so there's a part of this that I understand, which is, "Hey, there's some crazy stuff going on. Should we just stockpile some cash in case?" Cuz we got debt. If he's on baby step two, it means he has a thousand dollars to his name in savings. The rest is going towards consumer debt. So, is this a storm mode where you go, "We got to batten down the hatches and just save up money?" I'm going to say no.

Should you stick to the steps? Yes.

Should you make sure your family is ready for unexpected disaster? That's the part we need a definition on. Right.

Right. And so if your unexpected disaster is the air conditioner going out, the you losing your job, um the

stock market crashing, not owing anybody

any money is a really great place to find yourself. Having no other payments other than we have to scratch and claw our way to right? To pay our bills. There's a real disaster in front of you, which is the debt, the mess that you made. And so I'm not going to focus on what could be and is there going to be, you know, World War III and it's all going to come come down and that therefore I'm going to hang on to my debts forever. That's a terrible way to live. >> Yeah. And the um

I I just I again, I quote my friend who who told me this years ago, but I don't have a meteorite plan.

I do. I have a lot of meat in the freezer. Hunting season just wrapped up here, so like I do, right? >> Am I going to Delony's house if something goes down? Absolutely.

>> make it, but like um do we have unrealistic stockpiles of water, etc.? No, because if if the water local municipal water gets cut off, we're going to have a whole different issue going on, right? And so I think people like to say think our our family's life is going to be like this just minus these things. It will not be.

It will be such utter wild apocalyptic

chaos that right? So, um it is easy to get distracted when you're

doing when you when you get past the energy stage, George, like the it's it's like the January 15th at a gym. like already starting to fall off because everyone got excited. They started their first workouts. They even got sore the first couple ones. They feel like they're doing something. And then about January 15th, you're like, "Oh, I just have to do this forever?" And it just goes wah wah. And

so, it's real easy when you're in baby step two, you're selling stuff, you're feeling it, paying debts off, that you look up and you're like, "Oh, we have 2 more years of this?

4 more years of this?

What about water and ammo, right?" Stay

the path. >> Yeah. Stay on the path. >> The other thing is, dude, you live in Montana, not Gaza. Like let's not act like it's all coming down in Montana.

Like there's some there's some scary places. There's some scary things happening. Montana's fine right now. And so, unless there's imminent danger in your area, I would stick to the plan. And if something really did happen, sure, you can pause the baby steps, stack up cash.

I don't think the apocalypse is on the list right now. >> And Montana's probably one of the places where you'd want to find yourself. If it all went down, I would love to be in Montana. Don't tell the zombies. They'll go there first. They'll never make it. Tim is in Los Angeles up next. What's going on, Tim?

Hey, uh I was curious. Me and my wife are getting ready to pay uh we'll pay off our $148,000 worth of debt. Woo! And

um yeah, I know, right?

Uh and I was trying to kind of see what's next cuz we do have like, you know, a 3-month like quote emergency fund, but um you know, we're trying to wonder too like with these Trump accounts, uh should we just install like if they happen, great, but you know, we were trying to figure out like should we start investing like in a high-yield savings or something like that for our kid now who's doing April?

So, you're in baby step two, you've already done baby step three, and you want to skip to baby step five.

Did I hear that I suppose yes. Okay.

>> [laughter] >> I would I would do them in order, which is take your emergency fund, and let's focus on the emergency at hand, which is the debt. Could you clear your debts with the amount you have in savings?

Uh yes, we could do it honestly within probably the next like 30 to 60 days, uh even without the emergency fund.

Um and that's kind of like where I'm at, and you know, obviously we have >> off your debt today and spend the next 30 days restocking the emergency fund.

Okay. In Vegas, we call that I call.

So, that's one one idea. Number two, once you are through baby step three, you're now at baby step four, which is to put your own mask on and invest 15% in your own retirement.

Uh the other problem is we don't actually own a house at this time, especially here in California.

Uh it's a little more difficult uh these days, but uh and so that's kind of like

the underlying question is like do we just pay off the debt and then save, you know, do that cuz it's all intensity towards like a house or, you know, put our child's future ahead of our own?

Well, I I don't I don't think any of those are the options. I think you should invest 15%, and if it's going to take you a long time to save the down payment, that's okay. If you're going to stay in California long-term, it might take you 8 years to save a down payment instead of two.

Right. And so, that's the math of it.

But I would not put any money towards And here's the thing with the Trump accounts, the government is Did you have a child in 2025 through 2028? Is that the plan?

Yes. Okay. So, I'm going to open one, and here's why. I would love the free $3,000 from the government. After all the money I've given them, it's time they give a little back. You don't have to put any money into it.

And I personally wouldn't. I did a whole video on this. It's really not super impressive other than the free thousand bucks that will grow from age zero to, you know, 65 into a few hundred grand.

That's awesome. Not mad about that. But I would invest for your kids in a 529 plan, which has tax advantages of tax-free growth. And if you want to invest outside of that, you could just open up a brokerage account in your name, and you can use that to save up for their wedding or, you know, a down payment on a house for them one day.

Right. So, I love the motive behind it all. The 529 plan And the 529 plan, how exactly would you go about that? That's the first time I've even ever heard of it. Yeah, well there's there's a blog about it on our website, and so I'll make sure we get you that link, and we'll put it in the show notes as well for anyone who's interested. But a 529 plan is just a

plan to save for college where you use after-tax money, and that money then grows tax-free for education purposes.

You can withdraw it tax-free to use for your kids' college, and they've even expanded it now. It could be for trade schools and training and supplies and all kinds of things.

So, it's a great way to save for college with compound growth and some tax advantages. So, that's what I'm currently doing for for both of my kids.

I put money in there every single month.

If they get birthday money from grandma, grandpa, it goes into the 529 account.

But here's the new here's the bad news.

If you don't invest for retirement, your kids are going to have to fund it.

And so, that's why we tell people to put their mask on first. There's a 100% chance you need to retire one day, 50/50 chance your kids even go to college and graduate.

Right. So, you're doing a lot of good things, Tim. You've got a great heart, and you're so close. You're on the cusp of this amazing financial

but I would just do the plan in order.

It works, man. It works. Pay off the debt today, and if that scares you, that tells me that uh you probably should do it. Cuz you'll stack up that cash in no time. If you put, you know, 20 grand towards the debt, and now we need 20 grand in the emergency fund, well, now we're just paying ourselves instead of a lender. I would rather do that any day.

It's hard, John. There's so much you could do. There's so many things that are good things. We want to pay off debt. We want to save. We want to save for the kids. We want to save for retirement. And that's why I love the baby steps. It just takes out all the ambiguity and gives you just a clear Nope, do that first. Nope, do that next.

And that's what I do. It's what I've done for my family. It's what John does for his. It's just it it I get it though. It gets it feels so hard

when um the world's all screaming at you from every different angle. It's hard to just stay the course. Just stay on the path. >> And now there's a new one, the Trump accounts. So, now we're distracted. It's like squirrels. Like look over here. Look over here. Look over It's like just The folks that win unhook from the system completely and just follow a different path, and we've laid it out for you.

>> [music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Kamel here with Dr. John Delony.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Teresa is in Indianapolis up next.

Teresa, what's going on?

Hi, how are you? Doing great. How can John and I help?

Well, um So, my mom's 82 years old, and she just

got hearing aids for $2,000.

And uh she is asking me and my sisters

to help pay the money back that she charged to her credit cards.

And you know, she doesn't she lives on her social security. She never really saved for retirement. And I feel like

even every time we go out, she, you know, expects us to pay for the dinners or lunches or whatever we do, and most of the time I do, but not all the time. Um and I've helped her

before with her budget, and I know she can save to pay for this purchase,

but how do I approach her about asking

for money and the entitlement she obviously feels that we owe her?

Uh what would you do? I'm on baby step two right now, and really don't have the money to give her.

Well, I think you're you just answered your own question.

I think the part that sounds like it's weighing you down is the stories you're telling yourself about her requests.

And so, if you've offered to pay for dinner a bunch of times, I don't fault her for just assuming you're going to always pay for it.

If you think that's a move on her part, and she's done that before, and she's always trying to like your whole childhood she was trying to get people to pay for food or whatever, that's another story.

But if you're if you don't have the money, you can just say, "Hey, Mom, I can't I'm I'm working on my own finances. I can't kick in on this time." That's it. And you can't control what questions she asks you. You can't control her temper tantrums.

You can't control the guilt you would feel cuz you want to be able to do it. You just can't right now. You can't control any of that stuff. What you can control is what you do, the next right move you make.

Your feelings are going to happen like regardless.

The next right thing is I can't afford it. I can't help right now.

Have you ever pushed back on her and just said, "Hey, Mom, I love you. I want to be honest. I'm not able to give you money anymore. I got to focus on my own financial responsibilities." I have I have.

I've said to her before, you know, she asked me, you know, why haven't we even been doing some stuff as much as we used to, and I said, "Well, Mom, I can't afford you." Like every time I go to lunch, you expect me to pay, and then even when I pay, you know, you don't say thank you, and you know, I just I don't have the funds. Like I have to when I think of going out, you know, I have to watch my pennies cuz I'm trying to, you know, get out of debt. But can y'all do other things?

Can y'all go for a walk?

No, it doesn't. And I've tried to curve it that way as well, too. It's just It sometimes it's just really hard cuz I know she's, you know, she's never really been ahead of the eight ball with money.

And you know, I just wish I was in a better financial position to help her with these things, but you know, some of it I I feel like, you know, she set herself up for this, too.

Yeah. But you just nailed it and that's what I didn't want to say it out loud, but you said it, so I'll want to pull that string a little bit.

A lot of this sounds like she's making requests that you as her daughter wish you could just give her the world.

I know. And you can't.

And so if you feel guilty, if you feel bummed out, if you feel sad about your own financial situation,

man, don't compound that frustration and pain and guilt and yada yada by blaming

her. It would be cool if we all had enough money to give our parents whatever we wanted, but most of us don't.

And it just stinks. And so we can either just cut off contact, which is a whole bunch of people do, which I think's insane, or we can say, "Hey, I'm going to start coming over to your house on Tuesdays. I'm going to make the coffee at the house and bring over a pitcher of coffee." Or you mom, you make the coffee. I'm bringing the Domino's. We're going to play.

And I can control that part. And it's not as cool as an as a hip diner in whatever town and yada yada, but it it'll still be valuable time with your mom that you'll be glad that you spent.

What do your siblings feel about this?

Are they also wanting to stop the sort of forced giving?

Absolutely. Yeah, and we're all in different positions and we all don't have the money right now. Like, I have sis One sister has kids in college, the other sister uh just lost a dog and had a um pays for her heater in her house,

and my other sister just had a surgery.

And I had a surgery last year, so like >> better part. You don't have to have a reason. Yeah. You can just say, "Mom, I can't help out right now." Thanks for thinking of me.

And that's it. And then hang up the phone.

And if she chooses not to pay the credit card bill because she won't or can't, then she deals with the consequences of that. It might go to collections.

Someone might be harassing her on the phone telling her she needs to pay or else. I don't know if you can repo hearing aids. I don't think you can, but maybe. I don't know.

Yeah. But that's the hard part of setting the boundary. It makes you feel bad, but you need to just repeat the boundary and make it clear cuz otherwise if she knows that boundary's flexible, she's going to get over it every time. Every time.

So just hold the line and about four times in she's going to go, "Oh, this is a dead end. I'll try another sibling."

And if she chooses to opt out of the relationship because of that, the sad part is it was transactional for the, you know, who knows how long before that.

Does she reach out without money being involved?

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. >> So there's a relationship outside of this.

There is. Okay, good.

And maybe one day you guys are all in a better place and you go, "Hey, we're going to take mom on this amazing trip." But it needs to be on your terms. And right now all of it has been entitlement and guilt.

Instead of, "Man, it'd be really cool to just cover mom's hearing aids. That'd be a cool gift to her." But if you like her and want to spend time with her, go over to her house with some Domino's and some coffee and some

homemade cookies or whatever. And when she asks the question that she's inevitably going to ask, which is, "Can I have some money?" you say, "No, I don't have it, Mom, right now. All right, your turn." And maybe choose to deal with a couple of awkward questions or annoying questions or guilt-inducing questions for the greater sake of the relationship.

But you and your siblings don't need a whole bunch of, "Well, this I got college and I got a sick dog." You don't need all those excuses. You can just together or individually say, "As for me and my house, right now we're not going to participate, but we love you. We're still going to hang out with you."

And she's not going to be on the street.

I mean, she's not in dire straits here, right? Does she have other financial problems that are pretty intense? Or is it just, "Hey, she owes a little bit on a credit card."?

No, she just constantly like something happens, she puts it on the credit card.

She's just in a cycle. And I've tried like I've worked on her budget before when she let me. And you know, I even um

bumped it up a little bit so that she didn't realize she was actually saving money. Um and

but now she won't let me. It's been a couple years and she won't let me redo her budget so that I can help her. She doesn't want you involved on that side.

Yeah. That's a sign.

If she doesn't want your help getting better with money, she just wants the money, then that's a sign that you need to stop.

And maybe one day she opens up again and says, "Hey, listen, I'm struggling. I got collections people calling me. Can you help me figure out a way out of this?" And you go, "Yeah.

Here's a way out." And it's not going to be you giving her money. It's you showing her how to get out of this once and for all. And maybe that'll get her to stop using a credit card.

The hard part is the credit card companies are insane for giving an 82-year-old a line of credit who's living on social security. >> Well, they're not insane if their kids are going to pay it back. You know what I mean? Like it'll get paid out of her estate or collections or it'll be a tax write-off one day.

Madness.

>> [music]

[music]

>> How many times have you started January saying, "This is the year I'm finally going to get my money under control." But then months go by and you still feel

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>> [music]

[music] >> John is in Fort Worth, Texas. John, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hello. Good afternoon. How are you doing?

I'm doing pretty good. I got a good spot to be at, but I still have the question of what do I do. So I'm wondering where do I go from here me and my wife with our investments and like in the future.

We just completed We're basically baby Well, not we are baby step seven now just this month. Paid off the house.

That's amazing. Congrats. What's the house worth?

Uh about 300,000. Awesome. And what do

you guys have in retirement?

Uh right now uh cuz we did put uh

basically just like 10% at the time. We just stepped that up or she stepped hers up for a 401k. We're sitting around 150,

five I think counting hers and mine together. Okay. But where I currently work, I only have a uh Roth IRA option.

They don't have 401k. But we're doing that right now. We're doing that.

>> Correct. >> Okay. So we're doing that. Like I'm I'm started that last month. I started funding mine for last year and now this year I'm going to end up funding mine and one for her. So that way it gets me to the 15%

or actually above it. Just max it out.

>> Yeah, what's your household income? What's the gross income you guys will bring in this year?

Um 2026 it should be about 150. We were

beyond that before because I used to get a lot of overtime, but I changed jobs this year. Pay went up a little bit, but no overtime. Okay.

Cool. So what's your question?

Well, where do we go with the investments from here? So after the IRA and after the 401k, we're going to have the house payment plus we were putting up to 17 grand, actually a little more than 17 grand a year uh extra on the house to get the house paid off in 10 years. We actually beat 10 years. We're at nine years and a couple months is what we ended up with.

>> That's awesome. So we were still able to live our lives off of that. So it's like, "Okay, do I just put it the rest of it in a 401 uh into a uh brokerage account for a uh like a uh S&P 500 or >> your wife has a retirement plan through her employer?

Yes. What is that?

Uh hers is currently a traditional and

she said that they were changing that to a Roth. Okay. >> But right now we're trying to figure out where we have to do what percentage we have to do out of our pay so that way we can max that out, which is I believe 18,000.

Well, the 401k is closer to 23,000

or 23 five. So here's the here's the good news. 15% which you can invest more

if 150 grand is 22 five.

So you still have the tax advantage options. If you both do a Roth IRA this year, I think they just upped it to 7,500 is the cap for each Roth IRA. So

that puts you guys at 15 grand there leaving seven grand to invest. You can do seven grand in her 401k on the Roth 401k.

Yeah. But then after that like the way I look at it doing the finances, we're going to we're going to eclipse that. We're going to have more than that and >> more. Yeah, so of that. >> you could fully Let's try to max out the 401k and max out two Roth IRAs. That would be my goal for 2026 if I'm in your shoes.

All right, but then what do I do with the extra after that? So, you're saying you're going to invest at 23 plus the 15, that puts you at 38,000 and you're still going to have more to invest.

Um yeah, we looked at our we looked at our budget and we were sitting around 47. That was like, okay.

>> Wow, that's awesome. >> Yeah, but do Do you guys have a high deductible health care plan?

No, unfortunately we don't. >> Okay. Cuz if you have an HSA, you can invest through that and it sort of becomes a loophole retirement account.

So, if you don't have that, so I'm kind of going through in my mind, what are all of the tax advantaged options? And that's going to be your 401k, your IRAs, your HSA. If you run out of those options, then you can be investing into a brokerage account in the market.

All right. >> Which is not tax advantaged.

And that's that's where my question came in cuz it's like, do we still follow the investment recommendation, growth, growth and income, aggressive or like or do we just do S&P 500?

>> Yeah, you can do either. I mean, S&P 500 is simple and outside of retirement, that's a great option. That's what David do. If David gets a big royalty check for Total Money Makeover, he's just going to throw it into an index fund into a brokerage account.

Okay. So, I would just go that route and how old are you guys?

Uh I just turned 40 and she's 41. Oh, amazing. Think about that, dude. You're in baby step seven, no payments in the world, investing 40, 50 grand a year.

Go pop that into an investment calculator.

>> That's what you do next and you keep doing it year after year.

And it's not exciting and people are going to tell you, "Dude, you need to be more sophisticated and you should put your money here and crypto is going to take off and you should buy real estate." Stick Stick to the plan. Stick to what you know, what you understand, and you will be multi-multi-millionaires in retirement.

Yeah, that sounds good. Congratulations, man. Never go back into debt, keep investing as much as you can, and also enjoy your life. You you know, we always talk about John, there's three things you can do with money, give, save, spend.

And it's easy to have too much muscle in one area where like, "I'm so good at saving and investing." And you realize it's like hoarding. Yeah. And your giving muscles atrophied and your spending muscle, your wife is like, "Dude, we haven't been on vacation in 12 years and we have a paid-for house." >> That may have been my house.

And also mine right now with a toddler and a newborn. I'm like, "I'm not going anywhere." But that's a good reminder and uh congratulations on baby step seven with the paid-for house. Matthew is in Columbus up next. What's going on, Matthew?

You with us?

We were so close to a great call with Matthew. It was going to be gangbusters.

All right, we'll try again. Oh, there we are. Oh, there he is. Hey, Matthew. Took him a second. All right. How you guys doing? Great. What's your question today? Yeah, cuz um trying to refinance the house uh that I got and got a lower rate, obviously. But now when I pay over, you know, I want to pay over my mortgage rate, I was told maybe invest that money instead. Who told you that?

Uh a family member.

Okay. >> I was under the impression if I can pay off my mortgage faster, I can pay off my mortgage faster and then that just opens up a lot more money in the future.

Yeah, you're right. And uh you know, that's what we teach in the baby steps and it's it's what I've done in my personal life. >> Me, too. And so, you can trust a family member. You're going to be you're you're not you're still going to go to heaven.

>> [laughter] >> You know, so like it's not like uh this is a But the the Ramsey plan says, "Hey, if you're in baby step six, which you are, put any extra money toward the mortgage while investing 15%." So, are you investing 15% of your household income right now?

Yes, mandatory with my job.

Cool. And then how much extra can you throw at the mortgage? Like, how fast is this thing going to get paid off if you follow our plan?

Well, it's going to hopefully refinance and I'm hoping to get an extra two payments in a year. Okay. Have you done the the mortgage payoff calculator on our website to see what that does?

I have not. I only get to listen to the show for like 20 minutes on my commute home. Oh, thank you for hanging with us today. I would tonight when you get home, I would just pop onto our mortgage payoff calculator, see what those extra payments would do, and then have a have a game plan and go, "All right, 6 years, we're going to have this mortgage paid off." And the good news is the mortgage gets freed up and then you have the rest of your life to invest that payment.

Which for all all the people who are like, "This is what you need to do. This is what you need to do." I I'm telling you, man, there's something about having a house that is yours that even if your local city jacks up your tax rate on it, it's super annoying, but you don't have a house payment. Like nobody can take your house. There's something so profound about that safety and security for you and for your family.

Yeah, it's more than math and I've seen the argument, "Well, I have a 3% rate. Why would I not invest or even put it in a high yield savings account?" I get it. You could make the argument on paper, but those people they're they're forgetting about the psychological component and you truly can't explain it to someone unless you do it and live it. That it just is a more peaceful life.

I sleep better because I don't have a mortgage payment and I never think about, "Man, what could I have made if I invested that money instead of putting it toward the mortgage?" I never thought that once. I just got, "Cool, I got a freed-up mortgage payment. I'm on track to be a multi-millionaire in retirement. Life is good." All right, excellent.

Yeah, pay your house off. >> Thank you so very much.

Absolute Hey, what's your mortgage payment, by the way?

Um I'm hoping [clears throat] to get it down to 125. So, I mean, you know, 1,250 bucks a month. 1250. Okay, that's fantastic. Is that principal, interest, taxes, insurance, all of that?

Is that just principal and interest?

It's It's all taxes. Everything is all wrapped into one. I would also do some fun math using our investment calculator and go, "All right, 6 years from now, I'm 46. If I invest that $1,000

principal and interest from 46 to 65, what does that turn into?" That's some pretty cool math, too, on top of not having a payment for the next several decades. >> Nobody's ever said the words pretty cool math. [music] Except for you, George. Thank you. I like pretty cool math.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage to protect your biggest assets. I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who actually know their stuff. Well, Ramsey trusted insurance pros, they're vetted.

They're coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interests at heart. AKA, they're not going to sell you crappy products that we would never recommend. So, if you want to learn more, go to ramseysolutions.com/coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. Silas is in Tampa up

next. Silas, welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me. Sure. How can we help?

Um so, I have a Chevy Colorado and I owe

36,000 on it and my wife's car, she has

a Toyota CH Excuse me, a Toyota CHR and she just had a transmission. It didn't go out, but the dealership told her that it's bad and they don't know how long it'll last, so it's about $13,000 to fix and

we're 22, both of us are, and we're just trying to get our finances in order and I want to get rid of the truck or I want to do something with the truck. I'm just looking for advice what I can do with it. Okay. What's your household income?

Um I make We work at the same job. Um we I make 1650 every paycheck, which I get paid twice a month, and she makes around 11 or 1200.

Um I'd have to look at like exactly, but it's rough I think it's like 1150. She makes about 1150, I make about 1650 every paycheck and we get paid twice a month. Got it. So, we're talking like 3200 and 2200. Let's call it 5400, 5500.

Correct. Yes. >> Okay. So, how much is her car worth?

Um I just took it um I looked it up on

the Kelly Blue Book and they said it's worth about 13 to 15,000. It's like the

They have that fair price, poor price.

Is that the private party value or trade-in?

Um that would be the private party value. Okay. And is that with the repair needed or is that saying, "Hey, if we got the repair done, it's worth 13 grand"?

Oh, no, that's just that's just that didn't include the repair. That's just it by itself like if it was right now because it's a it's a 2021.

Dang. Oh, hold on, dude. Hey, before you do anything, go to a local mechanic that you trust that's not the dealer. >> I don't trust them.

Okay. Yeah, they were kind of bull crapping us. You go to a local mechanic.

If it's a If it's a transmission on a Toyota and it's a '21, my guess is it's covered somewhere in the powertrain warranty.

Right. So, I'm not sure because um her grandparents bought her the car. Her There was a whole situation with her >> doesn't matter. That doesn't matter.

Okay. Like I go to a local mechanic and get the skinny on it, okay? And maybe a third mechanic. To get another opinion.

Cuz they may look at it and say, "Yeah, this happens all the time with this car." Or, "Yeah, this is under warranty." Or, "Dude, you don't have a problem at all. All these cars do this."

Right. >> Have you checked to see if they warranty the transmission because it's newer?

Um they didn't say they didn't I asked them like I asked them a ton of questions when I was there at the dealership and they didn't give me like a straight-up answer. I was just asking I was like, "Is there warranty on this?" And they didn't They were just like beating around the bush with me talking about how I need to get a new transmission. >> do your own homework on that and figure it out. Cuz here's the truth, if it's going to take 13 grand to repair and the car's only worth 13 grand, I wouldn't do this.

I would sell it for what it's worth, save up some money, and then get a different car.

My truck I took it in around yesterday while her car was getting worked on and they said the appraisal the appraisal value for selling it outright is 19,000.

And to trade it in is 22 to 25,000.

How is it possible the trade-in is higher than what it's worth? >> That's because they're giving you a cash number. Don't do this kind of business with dealerships. >> Don't ask the dealership what your car is worth. They'll lie through their teeth. >> Go private sale. >> Yeah, go to the Kelley Blue Book, back to where you were. What is the private party value for that truck? Cuz that'll tell you the exact difference you're underwater. You owe 36. If the truck is worth, let's say, 25, well, now we know.

We have a number. We're 11 grand underwater. How What did they tell you the trade-in was?

They told me the trade-in was 22 to 25

and then selling it was 19. Okay, that means you can probably get 27 to 30 private value. So, you might be six grand underwater.

So, how quickly could you guys save up the difference in order to sell it?

And have a little bit more to get you a different car.

Right. And could you share a car for a few months? Or go down to Fairwinds Credit Union, get a $10,000 loan, pay this thing the difference off, sell this thing private party, use a couple of grand to get yourself a a car that's going to get you from A to B, and pay that loan off. And you've just taken a $36,000 problem down to 10.

Right. Yeah.

Do you guys have any other debts?

Um I do. I have It's a It's a few small debts. It's like um from like a It's from Synchrony Bank.

It's like a $1,000 debt and a $2,000 debt. And then I have like a one of my credit my credit card got shut down.

And it was really my work's fault, so I filed a complaint with the Capital One, which is who I have the the car loan and the credit card through.

So, what's your total debt balance between the two of you?

Um she has zero debt. I have I would say probably close to $40,000 including the car and those those few things with the

the Synchrony Bank and my credit card.

Okay. So, the good news is if we clear this truck, you guys can be debt-free within 30 to 60 days.

Right. So, that's the new goal. Now, the the thing is we got to save up the money to cover the difference or like John said, go to your local credit union and get the difference in a loan so that we can reduce 36 grand down to 10.

So, that's the game. So, you have two pieces of homework. We got to work on your wife's car, figure out what it's really going to cost from a few mechanics, and then we need to either save up for the repair cost if it's going to be worth it, or we need to just sell it for what we can get for it and get a different car.

Yes, sir. So, you You got plenty of work to do, man. And it's very doable. I feel very hopeful about your situation, but it sucks. And I'm glad you're learning this lesson at 22 instead of 42.

Um that car loans Here's the Here's the best news. When you pay cash for a car, you can never be underwater.

And so, never go into car loan debt again. Never lease a car. Yes, sir.

Never go to a dealership and let them convince you into a payment. You will go in there with a check. And John has done this where he goes in and he's got a check for a certain amount and he goes, "This is how much I have. You guys want to do business? I'm here. If not, I'll peace out." And I've had them say, "Hey, appreciate you." We shake hands and I walk out. And I had somebody take $9,000

off of a car price.

Because I had a check and I said, "Hey, this is what me and my wife agreed on before I left the house, and I'm not going to call her and switch the deal up on me. This is a big check. I would like that car." And let me go talk to my manager, come back. Let me go talk to my manager, come back. >> games. >> And they said, "Just take this car and get out of here." And I was like, "Cool." Right. Right?

But it Here's the deal. I wasn't tied to the car. It wasn't like, "This is my dream." Like it's just it's a car, man. It's awesome.

It's nice. I love it, but it's not my identity. It's not my end-all, be-all.

And if that one didn't work out, I was going to find another one. That's cool.

Yeah. That's what I think my wife's situation her car is It's It's got 80,000 mi on it and Toyota they can go for a a pretty long time. And but her grandparents bought it for us, so I guess she's a little emotionally tied to it. And but she's also understanding that the more practical aspect is I'm willing to pay the price, you know, maybe sometime down the road then, you know, if they wanted to help us on another car or whatever.

But she's just I guess emotionally attached to it because I don't I have no idea to be honest with you.

Right. All right. And if you can fix it for three grand, great. Let's fix it.

Right. They Yeah, because they told me like I looked it up and it said that there was a It could be a wheel bearing or it could be the transmission. And then they go in and they give me the highest bid possible, which I I I kind of expected them to give me the most expensive >> the thing. Dealerships make money two ways, financing and the service.

They don't make money when you walk in with a check and buy a car.

Right. And so, they have a vested interest in getting you to do all of their service. That's why you get a million emails every day like, "You didn't do this." Or, "You need to do this." Or, "Come see us." >> Time for your checkup. And so, take it to a local mechanic.

And by the way, when you go to the local mechanic, look him in the eye or her in the eye and say, "I'm coming here because you're somebody has a reputation that is trustworthy.

Really quick question. What do you recommend? [music] How would I private sell? What's the best way to private sell?

You list on Facebook Marketplace. You pay a little bit, put it on an AutoTrader, take really nice photos. I actually did a video on this on my YouTube channel. Just search how to sell car for top dollar, Camel, it'll pop right up. We'll also put it in the show notes. And remember, don't let cars be more than half your annual income, total, all things with wheels and motors. You do that, you're going to build some serious wealth.

>> [music]

>> When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start, answer some questions, and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Hebrews 12:14.

Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord.

>> [music] >> Jordan Peterson said, "Face the demands of life voluntarily. Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for cat- catastrophe." Oh, that's good.

I think most of us are bracing for catastrophe these days. We're just tightened up just waiting for life to happen to us instead of responding to the challenge and and being a little more proactive.

That's good. Maria is in San Jose.

What's going on, Maria?

Um hi there, John and George. It's a pleasure speaking with you today. You, too. Um I have a question. Should I continue um paying off my house with the same intensity um if I want to retire in the next 5 to 10 years?

As of today, I was paying off the debt.

I'm completely debt-free as of aside from the house now. Cool. Are you single, married?

I am married, but I am the sole breadwinner. Okay. So, at the rate that

you're currently paying down the mortgage, how quickly will it be paid off? I would believe that I've calculated it would be uh 3 and 1/2 years. Wow.

And this is like with serious intensity.

Is this like overtime, no vacations, we're not living, or what?

No, I do take vacations, maybe twice a

year. Okay.

And I work a lot of overtime. Okay.

Well, that just helps me cuz I go gazelle intensity is rice and beans, we're not eating out, no vacations. We say move from intensity to intentionality once you hit baby step six. So, as long as, you know, you're you have a happy life, you're going on vacation, you're enjoying your money, you're giving money, you're investing 15%, it's up to you how fast you go.

Now, John and I are We're crazy people.

We're like you. We're like let's get rid of this debt as fast as possible.

Yeah, so I went pretty scorched earth and I'll tell you three and a half years is right at the outer limit for how long your body can take.

Okay. What does your What does your husband think?

Well, currently he is not here with me. That's why I was kind of wanting to get this done over with so I can retire and go um out of state with him. Out of the country cuz he's not here. Oh, literally not here like you you guys don't live near each other right now.

Correct. So my vacations are to go see him. Wow. Okay, so let me throw a

complete wrench in this deal. Why not sell your house and just move there to be with him?

Um because my whole family is here. Ah, okay. Fair. Fair. Wow. Okay, so how old

are you now?

I'm 45. And when would you want to retire?

Um at the latest I would say 55. And you're

you're able to do that as far as actual nest egg retirement accounts all of that.

Um well, currently I do have about 50k

in my high-yield savings and 40k in my high-yield savings. I have total retirement [clears throat] accounts and brokerage like HSA and Roth. I have 256 I believe and I also have a pension plan with my current employer.

Okay. And you're saying between all of that and me investing for the next decade, I should be able to make this whole plan work.

That's what I was thinking. And not having a house payment at all. And then you can invest a portion of whatever that house payment was. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that plan. The only encouragement I would give you is to retire to something instead of from something. Right now it feels like you're you're running and it's a great goal cuz you want to be closer to your husband. But I wouldn't also like work a job that I hate and toil over it for the next decade or whatever.

Do you enjoy what you do?

I do. Okay. I do. So that's another thing.

It's like when I retire, I don't know if I'll be able to not do anything. No, don't do You're too valuable to the world. We want We need you We need you out there. What likely will happen, you'll take a month vacation and then be bored and be like I need to do something with some meaning and purpose. I'm going to go start an encore career or your own business or consult or something.

>> down to halftime with your current employer. Retire and have them bring you on as a 1099. Like there's a million different things and who knows what the world will look like in five years or 10 years or whatever. But I I personally, George tell me if I'm wrong, I love Maria not having a house note in three years.

Okay. I'm a big fan of that.

I love it. We We paid ours in like 26 months. And now it was a very modest townhome.

We had a huge down payment. So it wasn't like I mean, we we went hard, but we were young, no kids and we went huh, what's stopping us? We were aligned on the goal and I I I look back with no regrets. So I don't think you will either. We were just kind of gut checking to make sure that you weren't going to burn out and fizzle out because your life was unsustainable.

Okay. Do you think with my numbers and what I have so far in retirement that I would be sustainable for me to be able to do that or I wouldn't be able to tell you on a on a radio call. I would sit down with a SmartVestor Pro and you can lay out all the numbers and what your current investment rate is and they have the most high-tech software where they can plug it all in and show you exactly what will be true and what kind of life you can live and when. And so jump on ramseysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro and and lay it out with a pro.

Um and you can use our investment calculator and ballpark some of this, but there's so many variables that you forget about like health care. Well, that's going to cost a pretty penny when it's not through your employer. Especially before you can access Medicare at 65. So that's a whole another wrench in the plan.

And then what kind of lifestyle you want to have in retirement? Are you going to live real simple or do you want to go crazy? And you know, they found what happens in retirement is it's kind of a smile shape.

And so at first your spending actually goes up.

It's a little dimple there. And then what happens is over time your spending actually goes down.

As you kind of settle in, you travel less, less vacations, less excitement and then as you near the end of your life, the expenses ramp back up.

As you enter, you know, health care, long-term care costs and all of that.

And so it's not a straight line where you go, well, can I live off five grand a year for the rest of my life? I wish it were that simple, but life is more complicated and that's where a pro can really help you unpack all of all of those variables. Thank you so much for the call. It's exciting to be debt free in California before you're 50? That's a miracle. JR is in Atlanta. JR, how can we help you?

It's a sad ending, JR. Are you here?

Yes, I'm here. I'm here. >> There we go. Okay, get right to your question. We're up against the clock.

Yeah, so I'm 24. I'm going through college and I'm trying to earn a degree that'll make me the most amount of money in the quickest time frame. I don't enjoy the field I'm currently in, but my goal is to chase money and then figure out what I want to do after. Is this the right mentality? Yikes. No, it's backwards.

Okay. Okay, so Now here's the thing. I I don't We don't need to conflate the two.

I think you can hustle and work really hard at something you love and that is the recipe.

Cuz you'll never get bored of that. So I would not do something I hate and get a degree just cuz I think it will pay well. You meet a lot of those people.

They're not happy. Miserable billionaires. And they never go, well, at least now I can do whatever I want.

I've never met someone who said that.

Okay, so here's my counter to that, right? Like so my counter to that is is that you might say let's say I have a passion in you know, art creation. I like to paint or whatever, right? You know, you know, to be honest, you know, that's not starting the most, you know, paying field. So So my mentality and honestly my advice that I give most other people is that, you know, screw, you know, what you enjoy per se if it's not making money and just, you know, go to school for something that's paying.

Like for example, I'm about to get my degree in December for software uh

engineering. Right now I'm a software engineer team lead and you know, I you know, I don't per se enjoy the job, but

but you know, in terms of financial like I'm I'm I'm I'm happy. So I'm going to use the money later on, you know, to then fund, you know, whatever I enjoy.

The My pushback would just be this simply this.

A, you're right. There's a reality and I tell everybody in their 20s just be quiet and grind it. Go grind it, right?

But grind it towards the person you want to become.

And so there is a big difference between I just want to be a painter and I don't make any money and I'm a person who's creative. I help create beauty in the world. I help people create homes. I'm an architect. I don't love like architect isn't my first love, but it allows me to be creative and when I get home, I get my easel out and I paint.

You know what I'm saying? There's a big difference. It like work really hard grinding it out. Of course that's part of it. I'm glad you have that ethos, but become the person you want to become cuz man, I know a lot of miserable lonely wealthy people and I wouldn't trade places with them for anything. I'd reverse it if I were you, man. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and [music] that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 235. There’s Hope on the Other Side of Your Worst Case Scenario | November 26, 2025


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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsay

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washaw, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Open phones at88255225.

You jump in and we will talk about your life and your money. Heather is with us

in Nashville. Hi Heather. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um well, first of all, thank you so much for taking my call. Um my my husband and

I are in Sorry. um we're in way over our

heads and so I'm just uh I'm just

looking for some help. Um we are about

1.3 million in debt. Um that's with uh

two businesses, a house loan, a car loan, credit cards, and uh back taxes.

>> Okay. Pretty scary. How old are you guys? >> Uh we're both 28.

>> How long you been married? Uh, six years. >> Okay. All right. Cool. So, um, how much

do you owe on your home?

>> Uh, about 48,000.

>> Okay. And what's it worth?

>> It's from from last we had evaluated

about uh 250.

>> Okay. >> And what do you what do you owe on your cars?

>> 17. >> Okay.

This is starting to scare me. And um

what um what do you owe in taxes?

>> Uh 30,000.

>> Good. Okay. I'm a little less scared than I was a minute ago. And that means we have a whole bunch of business debt.

>> Mhm. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Like $1.2 million worth.

>> Yes, sir. >> What in the world? On what?

>> Uh well, so we got into business. My

husband was fired from his job uh what

is it four years ago.

>> Um and found odd jobs but was never able

to find like stable uh full-time work.

>> Um so we ended up starting like a summer camp um in 2022.

Um but built that with credit card debt.

>> Um and then to

it's going to sound really stupid, I know. to make that stable. We bought um

it wasn't a business sale, it was an asset sale. We bought basically um another business's assets um for the

1.2.

>> Oh, so the business the one business, not the summer camp. The summer camp has how much credit card debt?

>> That's the one that's got about it's it's still got about like 15,000 out of the the credit card debt.

>> Okay. I didn't get credit cards earlier.

I just got cars and house earlier. Okay.

So, the credit card debt totals how much? >> It's about 19. So, 4,000 of ours.

>> So, you have one business. That's the problem. >> Yes. >> Okay. And you you were able to secure a loan as unemployed people with a summer camp for 1.2 million. Why? Who? Who is

dumb enough to make this loan?

Well, um I mean the summer camp was

doing extremely well. Um

>> no, but the the loan was not on the camp, was it?

>> No, sir. >> You don't own the land on the camp, do you? >> No, sir. >> Okay. So, basically, you're renting a piece of ground in the summer, running a camp on it, and you make what kind of income on that?

>> Uh that makes about 200,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. And the business that you purchased, what was the assets?

>> Um, it's it's rentals. It's a vet rental. So, it's like staging and life and audio visual and um inflatables and

all that kind of stuff. >> All the fun stuff for the camp.

>> Yes. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And you borrowed 1.2 who who

loaned you $1.2 million for that?

>> The SBA. >> I bet they did. I bet they did. Is the camp still operational?

>> Yes, ma'am. We we still do that every year. >> Is there a way that you can add things

for the other seasons to earn? >> That's >> quadruple the amount, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, that's that's what we've been trying to do. Um it's just we've um

I mean y'all know like we've hit a point in the economy where people are trying to figure out other solutions for uh fun stuff or child care, you know, so they're trying not to spend as much. So uh we kind of are stuck with the businesses that everybody's trying to avoid.

>> Not really true, but um in the situation as you all are in being so overwhelmed, I can see how you could start to think that. Um because when nothing goes right, nothing goes right. When when life looks like a country song, it just looks like a country song. Lots of people still renting kids stuff all over the place.

>> Absolutely. >> The economy is quite booming in some areas. But um >> so no, you just you just the economics at your house suck. And so I'm so sorry, honey.

It's so scary. So scary. Okay.

there any possibility of selling the

first the last business that you bought for anywhere near what you owe on it?

>> No, sir. No. >> How do you know?

>> Uh because the more it was like the layers of an onion, the more we peeled back, the more we found the deception

>> that you had overpaid.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> By how much?

>> Uh by by $400,000.

Mhm. >> Okay. >> Okay.

>> Can I How much does this cost you every month to pay the minimums on those

>> uh for the business? >> Mhm. >> We have it's we're operating at a cost of 50,000 a month.

>> And you're not making that?

>> I mean, some months we are like we're some months we are. >> Yeah. >> We're But it's it's both of our businesses are very seasonal.

>> Okay. I don't know. Um, here's the first

thing. I I was your age, been married the distance of time when we went broke and lost everything and ended up bankrupt. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, the first thing I want to tell you is the worst case scenario is you

lose the business, you lose the camp, and you start your lives fresh after a bankruptcy, and you hold on to each other, and you hold on to Jesus, and you hold on to your marriage.

>> Yeah. >> And so what? Okay. Lots of people have

gone broke. That's the worstc case scenario. So, I want you two to sit down tonight and accept that emotionally and look at each other and hold hands and say, "We got this together, no matter what this is." Cuz I don't right now see how you're getting out of this. But here's an idea. Okay.

>> Okay. >> I would sell it for whatever you can get for it. If you can get 800,000 for it, take it.

>> Okay. >> And go to the SBA and do a short sale.

hire an attorney and tell the SBA, you get nothing, honey, if you don't take this 800 cuz I'm walking and you're going to own a blow up inflatable.

>> Okay? >> And the SBA is not not in the inflatable business. And so you go to the bank and you say, "We're going to do a short sale on this business because we got screwed.

You participated in it because you idiots loaned us the money." And they are idiots. Um,

anybody that made this loan should be just lined up and shot. Oh my god, this

is ridiculous. So, uh, cuz they they've

screwed you in the process. So, yeah, I'm going to short sell the business. If you can't short sell it, sign a note for the difference and scratch your way through that 400k making 200 and something and you can bust through these other little debts and pay the stinking IRS. They're not bankruptible. Before you pay anybody else, you pay the KGB. I mean the IRS.

Okay? They're first on the list. So hang on. We're going to set you up with one of our coaches and see if we can get you some better advice than you got here cuz I'm a little short on time and I had to rush that. I'm so sorry.

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The rich rules over the poor and the borrower is slave

to the lender.

You don't think that's true? You talked to our last caller. She turned on when I

turned on her phone on put her on the air, she started crying.

$1.2 million in debt

on blow up jump houses.

Good God. Wow.

And then some of you want to call me up and tell me how that is how you go into business. Um because you have an idea

that's no one's ever done before, like fried pickles. Well, there's a reason.

There's a reason no one's done it before. So

yeah, the more debt you're in, the more risk you take and the more you understand the slavery aspect. And she's sitting there with

some basic income coming in and nowhere near enough to even service the debt, much less uh everything else. And she can see the writing on the wall that it's going I mean I don't know if that kid makes it or not. Uh, well, they'll make it, but I don't know if they make it without bankrupting. I hope they can.

If they sell it and they can claw if they sold it, they claw their way through the 400,000 >> making 200,000. They can do that and they clean up the other 100,000. That's $500,000 in debt making 200 plus. You can do that.

That's very doable. But >> my thing is the fact that somebody lent them the money and that when you're that young, you do you think that if somebody will give you the money, that means you're good for it.

>> You know. >> Yeah. But I mean when you're first starting at a lot of things you do dumb things. I mean it's like people think if you have checks left there's check money in the checking account. That's right. That's right. >> You know. So um then u of course no one

even knows what a check is anymore. That joke doesn't land anymore.

>> But the uh um yeah >> uh it's yeah you've got a responsibility

to not to not get yourself in these kinds of things. And here's the thing.

He lost his job. They run the summer camp. everything's going good and

then there was some kind of a desperation or a greed thing that kicked in that blinds you to doing a deal that's that dumb. >> Mhm. >> Because that deal by any measure is dumb. >> There's I mean I didn't say the people are dumb. I've done dumber. I I was $4 million in debt. $3 million in debt. So they only did1 million. So I've got a PhD in DUMB. So uh I've done dumb

things. That does not make me dumb. Um, I did them for dumb reasons. They did this for a dumb reason.

And oh my goodness, folks. So, my point is the teachable moment when you listen to the show, you Yeah, you can just get entertained and go that's ridiculous and that's crazy and how sad for those people or how weird is that whole thing and you can kind of get that, you know, Jerry Springer effect off the show if you want or you could actually try to learn something, >> right? >> What's the lesson in that?

his poor little wife is so scared she can't breathe.

>> And that's exactly how Sharon Ramsey sounded at 28 years old. >> Oh yeah. But there's another the other lesson for him and for her too cuz she was part of it is exactly what you said.

When you do something like that, Dave, you know, >> the shame, but the shame of it because you think I'm dumb. You think I'm I was

I'm stupid. Uh it's my fault we're in this. But they've got to remember going through this that >> the business plan was bad.

>> The loan was dumb.

>> The the business idea was stupid.

They're not they cannot wear that as an identity. >> The thing you need to the the takeaway for all of you listening is this. When you're in the middle of doing something like this, you've done it. I've done it. And every one of you have done it. You have a moment of sanity while you're in the middle of this going, "This doesn't feel right." >> Oh, yeah. You get that >> and you go past that moment and do it

anyway. And a 100% of the time, you knew

better. >> Every one of us.

>> Yeah. There's a proverb that says the uh the simple see trouble and move forward

>> and uh the wise avoid it and take

refuge. >> Mhm. >> And the simple are punished for it.

>> Wow. >> And uh that's exactly what that is. Because when you're doing something like this, when I did something like this, I was simple. >> Yeah. >> It was not wisdom. It was a fool.

>> But you had that moment. You had that moment. >> I was like, I I know that I know this is out of control, but I'm I can handle it.

There's an arrogance, a greed, a desperation that causes you to plow through it. And that's a simpleton.

>> It's a simpleton. It's not a wise person. >> Not biblically wise. It's a biblical fool. And um you don't want to be a

Bible fool. That's a real dumb person.

That's really dumb. And so, you know, but I've done it. I was a I every one of those things in Proverbs, it says you're a fool if you did this. I did every one of them, >> you know, and so uh that way I don't have to do them ever again. And now I can be the wise person instead on those books. So, yeah. But but it it's you know people you know when you're getting ready to sign for that brand new car that you cannot afford.

You got a $400 a month raise and you're taking out a $1,200 car payment to celebrate. >> And if you have to start rationalizing it, that's how you know >> and you know when you're doing it. You know you're sitting in the office that this doesn't feel right.

>> Your heart is your heart rate is there.

There's some your spouse is looking at you like you've lost your dad gum mind cuz you have and you try to tell them how smart you are and that we're going ahead anyway. You just don't understand cuz the way you were brought up. You sound like your mother and you go straight past it >> and straight into the dad gum fire. And man, that poor girl.

That's exactly what they did. And it's what you've done out there if you're listening to this. So don't be too quick to make fun of her and don't be too quick to make fun of me. I've done it, too.

Turn on your heel and walk out of the room. Get run away. Run away." Carl or

Jay is with us rather. Jay is in

Portland, Oregon. Hey Jay, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I am currently getting out of the army and looking to move back to Oregon.

>> Cool. Thanks for your service. You're in the army, you said, or just or the military? >> Yes, sir. >> Army. What' you What was your rank? What'd you do? >> Staff sergeant. Uh, human resources.

>> Cool. >> Yeah. >> Um, I'm currently looking to go back to Oregon and I have a basically like the job of my dreams. The only problem is is that it is located about 70 miles away from where I'm going to be living for the first year that I'm back.

>> Why? >> And so I need reliable transportation.

>> Why are you living 70 miles away from work? >> What's that? >> Why are you living 70 mi away from work?

>> Um just for the way that my child custody agreement is set up.

>> Huh. Okay. >> That's the closest you can get >> for the next year. Yes.

are you're okay.

>> I've gotten it worked out and I will be able to move closer to the job within approximately 15 minutes >> after that. >> Um so it's just for the first short little bit while I'm back. Okay. >> Um but anyways, my I'm looking to get a

new vehicle >> and I have been looking at a Toyota Corolla. >> I have talked them down from their asking price down to approximate I think

it was 23,000. Mhm.

>> Um, as of now, I do not have a vehicle.

I sold my vehicle that I had out here, and with the amount that I'd be putting down, I'd be able to afford it.

>> How much money within the next year?

>> Sorry. >> How much money do you have?

>> Uh, about$7,000. And between that amount, I will have my Baby Step 2 completed >> other than the car loan. >> Then why would So, you're going backwards. >> I mean, you you have $7,000 in cash.

Yes. >> That's all you have today. What does baby step two completed? Come in.

>> You're already at baby step two. >> I'll have all my debt. I'll have all of my debt. >> Have all It's not all paid yet.

>> No. >> Well, how much debt do you have now?

>> Um I have the remainder of the money for

my divorce >> to to pay off and it's about 3,000.

>> Okay. So, you have $10,000

>> today. >> I have No, I I have $3,000 left of debt.

You have $7,000 saved and $3,000 of debt. So, you have $4,000 to your name.

Correct. >> Yes. Okay. Oh, >> okay. I I would not go into debt to do this. You You're going backwards. Buy a $4,000 car >> and then save up some more. And if you want to trade it in to get a little bit more dependable. If it becomes a problem, you can do that. But don't go back into debt when you're spending all this effort getting out of debt. You can't solve a problem while simultaneously creating it.

>> Yeah. Can't get out of a hole while digging out the bottom. So, yeah. I I you know, you're going to go buy it, though. I kind of think we can talk you out of it in 30 seconds. But no, there's no chance. I'll ride a bicycle before I get a freaking car payment again.

>> Take the bus.

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Not in all states. >> All righty. Today's question comes from Jesse in Texas. They say, "I'm 27, make

about 100,000 a year. I have 18,000 in

student loans, no other debt, and have 25,000 in savings. My old car died and I

need to replace it. I'm nervous about draining most of my savings to pay cash for a car because I've seen my parents make big purchases that sent them into decades of struggle. So, I'm wondering if I should get a car loan that's in my budget and pay down excessively over the

years. I want to make the choice right.

I want to make the right choice. What should I do? Um, okay. First off, you've

got a great income. Yeah, you've got the 18,000 in student loans, no other debt, 25,000 in savings. You have the money to

do this in cash. So, I would do it. What I'm really focused on is the part where

they're afraid of draining the savings and the part where they're comparing this purchase to something their parents did, I don't know, decades ago that

caused ruin in their life.

>> Now, if you paid cash for a car, it did not cause them to struggle for decades.

>> No. Going into put them in the car payment that caused them to struggle for decades. >> Yeah. This is >> a cycle of always borrowing every time I want something and I like my savings more than I like >> Yeah. >> You know, >> that's one of those things you kind of have to play out and ask yourself like what's really going on here? Because when I see stuff like this, Dave, this is just fear operating unchecked in the

background. And you don't even know what

it's based off of. It's very like it's very vague. It's very I'm afraid I'm going to ruin everything. I'm afraid I'm going to ruin my life. My parents ruined their life. But there's no real clear detail. And when that's the case, it's

very hard to track it down and find out, okay, like what what am I act what's actually going on? So, if I were them, I would look at this and say, okay, uh what is it? If you're really afraid that you're going to your life is going to turn into your parents' life, write like play it out. What actually did they do?

Because what you're probably going to find is what Dave said. They went into debt >> and this caused a domino effect of events. And that doesn't have to be the case with you. Um, and then I look at this part where he says, "I'm nervous about draining most of my savings to pay cash." I mean, we see that all the time, Dave, >> why would you Okay, start with you're driving a piece of crap now. So, why do

you need a $20,000 car to replace a piece of crap?

You don't.

So, by the way, when when someone says, "My old car died, >> Mhm. I I'm an old redneck.

>> Uh I fix the car, >> right? >> You could fix it or you could spend a little bit more and replace it. You don't have to spend the whole 25,000.

>> Take your old car, sell it for 2,000, put 4,000 with it, and buy $6,000 car and then go pay off your student loans.

>> Mhm. >> And you're debtree with a $6,000 car.

Now save like crazy. Get your emergency fund in place properly done. Now start

saving like crazy and move up in car.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> But drive a $6,000 car for a year.

making 100,000 with no payments in the world.

>> I love that. I love that. But okay, you you gave the number side.

>> I'm going to give the emotional side of that >> because that's really in your book. What what no one tells you about money is

that you have to not only crunch the numbers, but you have to deal with this person in your mirror who's misbehaving.

>> Cuz a person in his mirror is going, "Oh, but I'm so scared." Yeah. >> So, he's got to go, "All right, I'm afraid. I will own that." Now, what I talk about in the book is understanding rational versus irrational fears.

>> Exactly. >> Because the the irrational ones are the very vague, oh, I'm going to ruin everything. Oh, I'm just going to be stuck on the side of the road. Oh, I'm going to repeat my parents. No, no, no, no. What are you specifically afraid of?

Because if you can't be specific, you can't solve it. Now, this guy could say, "Well, here here's what I'm afraid of, Jade. Uh, I'm afraid if I drain my my savings down to 10,000 and get a $10,000 car, I'm afraid my AC is going to break and it's going to cost 12,000. Right?

Tell me exactly what you're afraid of.

Then we can go back and we can go, well, let's play out the worst possible scenario. Worst possible scenario is this. How would we fix it? And we can give answers, Dave, to all of that. But as long as you let it float around and just be in La La Land, you're never going to do it. So do yourself the service of taking a moment and go, why is it that when Dave and Jade told me to buy this car cash, I froze up? Write it.

What is it specifically that I'm afraid of? What did my parents do specifically?

And then it's like our friend Dr. John Deloney says, you've got to the facts are your friends. >> Exactly. >> Is there anything true about this?

>> A rational fear is don't touch a hot stove. An irrational fear is I'm not buying a stove because someone might touch it. Because somebody I once knew that I heard read about in a book got burned on the stove. >> My mother my mother when she was 14 got burned on a stove. We will never have a stove in our house. >> Well, that's cray cray. I mean that's but that's the same kind of stuff. That's the way our brains little drama queen that lives in our heads.

>> Just that little drama queen does this little dance >> and then all of a sudden you're in Stupidville. >> That's right. And I mean I'm not I I'll validate the fact that it's real. We all have it and to some degree, but it can't it can only be an excuse for so long.

a good reason if you let it go around long enough becomes a bad excuse. And so you've got to look at the reason and say, "Why am I doing that? What's the reason I'm doing that? I don't want it to be an excuse for me moving forward." And you got to work through that.

And that's what we talk about in the book. >> And I'll tell you, when I hit bottom, I said this these words.

>> Never again. >> Okay. So, you're sitting here right now, Jesse. You make $100,000 a year. You have a piece of crap car and $18,000 in student loans and 25,000 in the bank.

and I don't like this feeling.

>> So do something about it, son.

Say never again. I'm going to clean up these freaking stupid student loans. I'm not going into car debt and I'm going to pile up some cash and by the end of the year I'm going to have $30,000 and no freaking payments cuz never again do I want to feel this feeling again.

>> And you know what no one tells you about money is you got to get a little pissed off at some point and go, I'm not living like this. I've had it. And that's what

you and Sam did and that's what you talk about in this book. >> I do. I talk about just being able to understand, hey, there's more to it.

Some people, I'll be honest, I'm generally the type of person who can just up and change. I get to that sick and tired of sick and tired point, but then there's those moments the the wrong thing hits you in the wrong way and it's like you feel paralyzed and you're like, why do I feel so paralyzed by this? Why am I getting so upset about this? Why am I why do I feel like I'm going backwards? Why did I push pause when I was going so quickly at one point?

>> And those are the times you got to stop and pause and go, "What's going on here?" And to his point, he's thinking about something that it wasn't even in his life. It's something his parents did. Yeah. >> That's causing him to stop. >> Dude, you're 27. You make $100,000 a year. >> Here's an idea. Stop being broke.

>> Get off your butt and fix this.

>> And that, you know, when you kind of get that own thing going inside of you, that that voice saying that stuff to yourself, Mh. >> That's when you're going to just flip this whole thing around. But right now, you're dancing around all the sides of it. Go, I'm going to touch that. Little of this, little of that, little No. Knock it in the nose, dude. Reach up and

smack the bully in the nose. You are either going to tell your money what to do or you're going to be miserable the rest of your life. Cuz money's going to tell you what to do, and other people are going to tell you what to do. And you're going to watch Instagram and figure out that other people have a better life than you cuz they lied on Instagram, you know. And so nobody has a life that looks like their Instagram life if you didn't know. I I'll just clue you in.

There's no such thing. So I was with Willie Robertson this week. He was telling me he said we were talking about television show and he goes, "No, that's that's like a show that really happened. I do reality TV. It's never really happened. It's not real. It's not real.

It doesn't happen that way in real life." >> So Oh my gosh. Okay, Jesse. So what the

prescription is >> we're going to take some of this money. no one tells you about your money is that there's an emotional side to personal finance, a psychological side, a spiritual side to personal finance.

>> That's very much about you looking you in the mirror and telling you dealing with the stuff you said to deal with. >> It's three parts. You want to change your money, you have to consider three parts. The numbers in the math, >> your behavior, and your emotions. I say it like this in the book. I say if behavior is the car, behavior is the vehicle is where you want to go. You get in it. Your behavior as a vehicle, your belief is sitting in the driver's seat.

That's the thing. Do I believe I can do it? If I believe it, I mash on the gas.

If I don't believe it, I go in reverse.

>> And your emotions are the thing that say, I'm going to keep steering it down the right track. If you get spooked, you hit a tree. If you feel good and you are managing those emotions, you go straight forward to the goal. Yep. That's how it works. >> What no one tells you about your money.

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Bo is in New York City. Hi Bo. Welcome

to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hello sir. Thank you. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Um I don't even know where to start. Um,

I I guess my overall question would be

how to handle the overwhelming stress of the holidays while we're climbing out of debt and still trying to

be what we need to be for the children.

>> What's the overwhelming stress? Buying gifts?

>> Yeah. >> How old are the children? >> When there's when there's literally nothing. >> Well, we'll get to why is there nothing, but how how many children?

Four. >> Four. And what are their ages?

>> Uh 15, 11, 10, and seven.

>> Okay. Tell me why there's nothing.

>> Uh just not enough. There's not nothing, but there's not enough at the end.

There's not anything extra. There's >> paycheck to paycheck.

>> Hour to hour.

>> Okay. Okay. What are you earning >> at this point?

>> Four jobs right now. Um, >> you have four jobs. >> 20 a year. >> Okay. Yeah. You yourself have four jobs.

>> Well, one full-time job and then three like gigs. Amazon, catering, flex,

>> and that equals 120 a year.

>> About. Yeah. >> What's your main job?

>> Um, managing a small grocery store.

>> Okay. That was mine that I sold to them

last year. >> Did they give you money for it or you just got out?

>> They gave me a good chunk of

help toward the debt. >> How much? >> There's still some left over.

>> Um, on paper, >> yeah, >> 200,000, but I owed about 240.

>> So, there's 40,000 left of business debt

>> pretty much. Yeah, there's other debt local SBA loan.

>> There's personal debt, there's school loan debt, there's >> it's a mass

>> What's that? >> What do you make at the grocery store?

>> That's a hundred. >> Okay. >> Okay. Tell me. So, there's a 40,000 SBA loan. Tell me the student loans.

>> Um, all different ones, but between my wife and I close to 30.

>> Mhm. Tell me about the personal loans.

>> Not loans, credit cards that we took out in our own names. >> Okay. >> To help the business in the last year, you know. >> How much is that? >> Uh

I if I had to guess, it'd be 30 to 40.

I'm so sorry. I called on a whim. I'm listening to the podcast. >> I got you. I got you.

>> But 30 to 40. I mean, we haven't

>> How much we haven't >> How much do you own your cars? >> Taking anymore. I will say that.

>> How much do you owe on your car? >> Um >> I know you're gonna hate that, but we have one car that we owe about 13,000 on. It's a 2018 4Runner.

>> Um and then I take your advice and I went and I bought a HOD.

>> Mhm. >> And it blew up. So I had to buy another HD and it broke down. So now I'm on my third HD, which is a 200,000 miles 200

2009 Silverado that you paid cash for.

Yeah. And it spends more time at the mechanic than it does in the driveway.

So I think I spend less on the 4Runner

over the past two years.

>> Well, I chalk that up to I chalk that up to your You might not be know how to select a great older car. Yeah, >> that's what I chock that up to.

>> One of those Astro vans that that your wife drove.

>> So $123,000 of debt.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 43. Just turned 43.

All right. So, here's the thing, okay?

You live in one of the most expensive

cities >> in the world to live in.

>> Okay. And you can't afford to live there, can you?

I think I think you need a change of scenery.

>> I know. Well, there's a problem that

legally can't yet.

>> Is this custody? What is this?

>> That was vague. What do you mean?

>> Yeah. Um, my oldest son is not my own

son. >> Mhm.

>> And he's, you know, we're tied here to the father. >> Mhm. So, okay, then let's talk let's

still talk living situation because >> well, we have it. We live in a beautiful, beautiful area that we don't deserve to live in. >> We pay less in rent

>> than you would think you'd pay for a basement apartment. >> What do you pay? >> We have a $2,000 a month.

>> Okay.

>> Does your wife work outside the home?

>> No, she homeschools our four kids. Mhm.

>> We might need to change that.

>> I know. I know. It's It's kind of hard to bring that up when >> Yeah. But let's let's let's play, >> but let's let's stop for a minute.

>> Hey, Bo. >> Listen. >> Yeah. >> Something's got to change, dude.

>> You're going to have to decide what it is. >> Not even any more hours in the day for >> No, you you you can't work anymore. You got no emotion left in your gas tank.

I'm talking to a guy who can't even form a sentence cuz you're completely exhausted.

Something's got to change. You're going to have to change something. You're carrying all of this. You're the plates spinning this dude I've talked to and I don't know when. >> And these plates are crashing all around you and you're scared to death.

>> And and every time we bring up you got to try something. You got to try something. You got to try something. You go can't do that.

Can't do that. Can't do that. Something's got to change. You got to change something.

You're going to have to rise up and bust something and change something. I don't know what it is, man. But I I I love you and I want you to win. And I I'm talking to a guy who's scared >> the wrong work.

>> I'm I I I think you got to move. I think you got to do something different. Your wife's going to work. Somebody's going to work.

Something's going to change. Your job changes. You get away from that grocery store that failed cuz every time you walk in there, you feel like a failure.

words. And it's you're you're if you could you need to play this back and listen to it on the podcast because you're you're you're uh you're uh defeated >> is everything that comes up. I'm already defeated. I've already lost.

I've already lost. I've already lost. And you have not lost. You you you do you're a hardworking guy.

You're managed to keep a family together in freaking New York City. >> My god. I mean, you're amazing. There's a lot of stuff you can do.

>> Your life's not over. You There is a lot of stuff my friend Bo can do that makes more money and better decisions. You are not stuck. But you are going to have to change something. There's an old thing uh when the lumberjacks in the mountains of of the Appalachians used to put the trees in the river to run them down the river to deliver them to the sawmill.

They would get stuck in the bend. When they go around the corner, there'd be a log jam. That's where that come that saying comes from. You know how they fixed it?

They'd light dynamite and throw it in the middle of it. That's how you bust up a log jam. You bust up some stuff. Now, I don't know exactly what it is in your life, but I'm going to start selling everything in sight.

Anything is on the line, and I'm going to look at the kids and go, "Kids, we're freaking broke. We're freaking broke. We got no money." So, we're going to have to figure out a a very creative Christmas this year.

Okay? So, something's going to have to change and and something's going to change because you cannot the guy I'm

talking to is not in a sustainable situation. One year from today, you cannot be saying the same exact sentences you're saying to me right now.

You cannot exist that way. It won't work. Something's going to blow. You're going to blow a gasket. Something's going to blow up in your marriage. You're going to we're going to find you in addiction. Something's going to blow up because you're just fe the stuck stuck stuck stuck stuck and just start yelling at the stuck and say, "No, I'm throwing dynamite on your butt." Now, I don't know exactly what the individual tactical thing to tell you to do is right now, except to encourage you and

say, "I think you're a whole lot better than you think you are right now." >> Mhm. I'll give you some homework. If I were you, let's I Let's send you find the work you're wired to do cuz I think you need to get on a different career path. I think grocery store what you did before is that's just hanging over your head and the longer that you work in that it's just driving you into depression.

You need a new job and you need to not have four jobs because you've been doing that for too long. I'm going to look at this homeschool situation cuz your wife needs to be able to work. You need her help >> earning income in this season.

>> Something's got to move. You decide what it is before it decides for you. That's a situation. Bust up into it, Bo. You're

better than you feel like you are. Hang on. We're going to send you finding the work you're wired to do cuz you need some new work.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host. Carl's in Chicago. Hi Carl. How are you? I am better than I deserve, I hope. How are you, too? >> Just the same, sir. How can I help?

>> How can I go about helping someone that

I truly care about without financially ruining myself in the process?

>> Who's the person and what do you need to do to help him? >> Uh, so this is um a girlfriend. Um,

we're dating for about two years. Um, we actually technically I ended things a

couple weeks ago just because of the the patterns with her her money and her finances just kept leaving me in a bind.

>> Um, and >> now she's like really in a bad spot to where she's like facing eviction and she's got a young son and I don't know what to do cuz I don't want to enable her at the same same time, you know, cuz I've tried many things until we got to this point. But, um, I just I also don't want to see her homeless either. Are you thinking about this young son more or are you thinking about like is it more about the son or is it more about her?

>> I think I think a lot I mean it's it's

got to be the son. Uh he we obviously had like a really close bond like while we were together and it's just I don't want to see a kid on the streets or like >> Well, what stops her from working? Like is there something that keeps her from being able to have a job?

>> Sort of. Uh she was working when we were together. Um early 2025 she did get sick

where I uh I took over the family finances and everything. Um and she

still has this sickness but she ended up going back to work after we had broken up. >> Um and she's had two jobs since we've

been together. And I did make her several budgets. I'm like, "Hey, this is how much you make. This is how much you work. Like this will work if you just don't overspend." It's always been >> uh 27. >> And what type of tell I mean I'm not trying to pry but what kind of sickness was it? >> Yeah. Uh stomach ulcers.

>> Okay. Okay. Um and she's smart. Yes.

>> Very. Yeah. >> So what do you perceive like just be flat out honest. If I say to you, hey level with me. Why isn't she working? Is it because she's lazy? Is it because she has a toxic trait? Like tell me why isn't she working? >> Yeah. Um, I think more so it's like she

has toxic traits um that obviously like led to our breakup too. Uh, but you know, obviously when I met her, you know, our first eight months were were great until we got into the money issues and like me having to spot her. Um, but it was just uh >> Okay. So, you were living together. Were you living in that apartment?

>> Uh, yes, for a little bit. I mean, we never like officially lived together, but I was I was over there fairly often.

>> Okay. And so you were paying you were paying the rent for a while.

>> I was Yes. I was helping her when she wasn't working. Correct. >> Yeah. And how much is the rent?

>> Uh 1050.

>> Okay. And how much does it take to get it current?

>> Uh it's like 4,000.

>> Okay. And you you've been gone for I thought you said you broke up two weeks ago. >> We did. I mean we got >> How's she four months behind if you were helping with the rent?

>> Uh I was helping with the rent until June when we broke up. And >> Oh, I thought you said you broke up two weeks ago. We started talking again, but never official. But yeah. >> Um, did she ask you for help?

>> Um, >> or are you just looking at this saying, "I need help. She needs help." >> She she hasn't help. She hasn't asked

yet. Uh, but she has before. Um, when she gets in these situations like uh just trackable money since we've met, >> does she have any does she have any money at all? >> None. No. >> Okay. So, does she have a job now?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, if she was current, could she stay? >> Yes. >> And she couldn't make it going forward.

How much money do you have? >> Maybe. I've got about 7,000 in my name.

>> Okay. You can't help her. You don't have enough money. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. >> It's really sad. >> Does she have family?

>> Um, yes. I don't know the dynamic too

well. Obviously, uh, when we were together, she had a lot of family issues, too. So, I don't know if they would help willingly.

>> I just don't know. >> If I were, >> you don't have the money to help her. And if I were in your shoes, here's here's the facts. She hasn't asked you for help yet. That's thing number one.

You're kind of thinking about this and it hasn't even happened yet. I'm not even sure why you know all of this if you've been broken up. Number two, if the if let's just play this out because let's pretend they did end up on the streets. I don't think they will.

I think she's going to figure something out because the truth is she was probably existing just fine before you came into the or she was surviving. I don't know if she was doing just fine, but she was surviving before you came into the picture.

got wind of the fact that this little boy was on the street, where are you living? >> Yeah. Uh, I live on my own right now.

>> So, is there a way that you could say he can stay with me for a couple of weeks until you get on your feet?

>> I could do that. Yeah. So, there are some options here that involve you

helping if it got to the worst case scenario, but I don't like the idea of you trying to be Superman and keep any of this from happening to begin with. >> Yeah. If you had 700 grand and you wanted to write one $4,000 check to walk away from this, clean, >> dust your hands off, shake the dust off your feet, and walk away.

>> Yeah, >> that'd be okay. But you ain't got 700 grand. You got seven grand. You don't have any money. You're broke. >> And you've got debt, too, don't you? Uh, no. Luckily. >> Oh, good. Okay, that's good.

>> Yeah. >> You're not in a position financially to give up half of your net worth.

>> 4,000. Yeah. 5,000 bucks >> to do this. It's just not it's not it's not not tenable. And it's not your job either. >> Uh I mean, because within within two

miles of you, there's eight of these people. You just happen to know this one. >> True. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. And you you're just not you're not Jesus. That's his job. You can't you can't do his job for him. And so you can only do what you can do. And yeah, and so I'm with Jade. If if you find out that the little boy needs some help, you can help him.

If it was, you know, if it was a small percentage of your world, I would give her some money and then just no more ever again. And because she's going to mess it up, she's going to mess it up again. >> And he said he's already done. And here's my thing, cuz I don't want anybody to think, "Oh my gosh, J, you're screwed.

You're so mean." There's nothing wrong with her. If she was on drugs, if she was having some sort of I mean, she's got stomach ulcers, but it seems like she can work. She already has another job.

it would be enabling. I think that it would be for her somebody who's just kind of softening the fall. Okay, I don't have to work as much. Okay, he's going to be here. I think that she can do this. He said she's smart. She's capable. If she has personality issues, go see a a therapist.

>> Amen. >> That's all I'm saying. >> Amen. So it's interesting that a lot of the things that uh keep us from working, the income from

working solves >> work. >> Yeah. >> Money. >> Yeah. Money. Work creates money. And

then you don't have anywhere near the stress. And so the stomach ulcers which are a stress induced by and large thing.

>> Um I mean the reason you got stomach ulcers is you've been broke all your life because you don't maintain a job all your life. And so these are created situations. And so yeah, your your

anxiety so to speak that everybody throws that word around these days goes down. >> Your stress goes down. Your health

improves when you create some margin in your life. And there's only one way to do that and that's work.

>> Mhm. >> A lot.

And you won't die from hard work. Right before you die, you pass out. you won't die. So just working all the time just

just like a crazy person and it creates this big old pile of money and money is not everything but paid rents.

>> Paid rent is and paid electricity is and food on the table is and Christmas presents are and all those things happen. All that stuff's what money buys. Money is not important but what it buys oh the stuff it buys is really important.

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Alex is in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Hi, Alex. How are you?

>> Good. How you doing, Dave?

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, I've gotten myself into a pretty big hole with payday loans.

>> Oo. >> Um, totaling about 3500. Um, you know,

the APRs on them are all 500% or so.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah. I I took them out because I got laid off um in August and I didn't have

a good enough credit score to get a loan to get me help with rent and everything.

And um I'm starting a new job in about three weeks. And in the meantime, I've been working uh Lyft and making about 800 or so a week. And basically all of

my money just goes to those payday loans and basic living expenses. And I just

really want to get out of this cycle.

>> What's the new job pay?

>> Uh it'll be 63 plus some bonuses, so

probably about 70.

>> That's good. >> What else can you do for the next three weeks other than lift?

That's That's the thing. I don't know. I'm already doing 10our days, five, six

days a week. Um, >> yeah. So, you're making a dollar an hour. What else can you do?

>> I don't know. I'm >> Do you have a lawn mower? Can you go cut grasses and trim hedges and rake leaves and detail cars? Can you do something like that where you can set a higher rate?

>> Yeah. So, I've been looking on Craigslist and Facebook for just general odd jobs, and the only thing that I've been able to get was I helped this guy move um move all his furniture and stuff

for like 200 bucks. >> Mhm. >> I mean, you know, it's not really the best area, but that's something that I would be qualified for.

>> Uh what about I'm just I'm spitballing with you. What about It's holidays. What about like hanging up lights? People need help hanging up lights. What about something like that? I'm just >> FedEx. You can throw boxes.

>> Mhm. >> FedEx and UPS are hiring right now

>> and they're pay and they're paying more than you're making with Lift because you're making 800 coming in, but you got gas and wear and tear on the car coming out of that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um >> if you're driving that car 10 hours a day, you're not making any money.

>> Yeah. I I thought about going and just getting a simple being a server or bartender or working at UPS or FedEx.

It's I just don't want to go through that whole process and then just leave in two weeks because keep it keep it.

Your new job doesn't work on the weekends.

>> Yeah. >> Work Saturday and Sunday.

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. I I could do that. >> Yeah. >> You're going to need to >> and clean this mess up in the meantime.

The first thing you do is you buy food.

The second thing you buy is you buy electricity. The third thing you buy is rent. The fourth thing you do is pay a car payment. Only after all of your living expenses are covered do you pay anything on a payday loan. And don't you ever walk in those places again and borrow money the rest of your freaking life. Remember the pain of this and

remember the stupidity of this and the ridiculous trap that you voluntarily stepped into so you never do it again.

Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I don't ever want to pay

500%. >> Teach your children. teach your grandchildren, teach everyone's children to stay away from those scumbers. They are screwing people.

>> Yeah. Um, the other thing was I was thinking about just revoking my bank

authorization for them. So, they can't charge me anymore until I can >> Yes. >> get out of it. >> That's fine. That's fine. But, but you can stop it. That's fine. Just stop it.

Or change your bank account or close your bank account. I don't care. But the point is, you're going to have to pay them the 3500 and you're going to have to pay them a bunch of stupid interest at some point. And the more money you make, the faster that's going to happen.

And then never under any circumstances

go in there again.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I know. I I I knew it was stupid, too. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it just you you you stepped in a bear trap and guess what? It ripped your leg off. Oh my gosh. This is ridicul.

I'm so sorry. Wow. It's such a trap, though. It's such a ripoff.

Uh but yeah, you just have to be one of those guys who goes, "Yeah, back then when I was that, Alex, I did that and I won't ever do that one again." >> And um I I got a lot of those in my life, Alex. A lot of stuff that I used to do that I don't do anymore. And it's caused me to have money and it's caused me to have a better life and a better walk with Jesus and everything else cuz I don't do the stuff I used to do, the other version of Dave, right?

And so it it changed everything. And that's where you are.

And you're on your way. You're going to clear this up. But the faster and the more you work, the faster you create income and the more income you create over the next uh four months, the faster this thing goes away and becomes a memory of that dumb thing I did a long time ago back in you'll tell your grandkids back in August of 25.

I was over there to bait. You know, you could tell the grandkid story, right?

And go that I did that stupid stuff, son. You stay out of them places. You'll be that grandpa, right? And that's the grandpa you want to be. the not the one that's still living broke. >> The thing is though, what I keep thinking about when I hear his call is he had been on the edge >> before. >> Before and >> he had no margin when you get laid off.

>> No margin. And all it took was one little flick and then all the dominoes fell down. >> Yep. >> And somebody listening is >> that's on the edge.

>> Like there's a whole bunch of somebody's listen better. >> Buckle down right now. Otherwise, you're

going to get laid off at the Because they don't they don't they don't come in and tell you like seven months from now we're going to lay you off. >> They come in and tell you seven minutes from now you're leaving the building.

>> Mhm. And that's Yep.

>> Because corporate America has one job and it's piss on their employees and so that's their only job and they're really good at it. So, you know, this is what happens. So, now you've got to build a

margin of an emergency fund and no debt payments. You got $30,000 in the bank and no payments and they lay you off.

You look at them and go, "What's the severance?" You got $30,000 in credit card debt and no money.

>> And they lay you off, you go, "Oh crap, I am heading down to the payday loan place." >> You're at the mercy of whatever desperate thing you do next. Yeah.

>> Sarah's in South Dakota. Hi, Sarah.

What's up?

>> Sarah >> is gone. >> Locked out. She dropped out.

>> Scary question. >> You scared her off. question. Brian is in Minneapolis. Hi,

Brian. How are you?

>> Uh, good morning or good afternoon, Mr.

Ramsey and Jade. >> Hey, >> I'm doing well. Uh, question for you guys, which I'm glad I have male and a female. Uh, I'm engaged. I'm 45 years

old. My fiance does not quite know what

my net worth is. How do I

tell her fully and that I my lawyer says I pretty much have to have a prenup?

>> Well, your lawyer is not in charge of your life.

>> Yeah. No, I gave uh >> number one, lawyers lawyers give advice.

They don't tell me what to do and then I decide if a they want them to be my lawyer anymore and b if I'm going to take their advice. They don't get to tell me I have to do something. That's not how you're not the boss of me now.

So, how in the world do you get engaged and have never told her? You should have told her before you got engaged.

>> I I agree. She knows I'm worth a decent

amount. She just doesn't know the full amount. >> What is the full amount?

>> Close to 20 million.

>> Wow. >> Close to 20 million. That's a little vague. >> Did you say close to 20 million?

>> Just shy of the last time I had my uh financials audited. And you're telling me there's no signs that you're a 20 millionaire?

>> Uh, she knows I'm a millionaire, but she doesn't quite know that. No, I'm I live

very frugal. Lived in the same house since 2005. Drive a vehicle from 2011.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, you said you you said your net worth is close to 20 million. Did I mishar you? >> Mhm. >> No, you did not mishar me.

>> You said 12 to I thought I heard you say 12. >> Close to 20. >> Okay. So I did miss.

>> Okay. So let's call let's call 600,000.

>> What do you what do you make a year?

>> Uh 700ish thousand.

>> Does she know that?

>> She knows I make a good amount. Yeah.

>> Well, >> she doesn't know that.

>> No. >> How long have you been together?

>> Three years. >> How long have you been engaged?

>> Uh eight months. So, you were Can I Can I ask a clear question? For that long of a period of time, that means you were intentionally keeping it from her. There was a a point that came. I'm not going to tell her this.

>> Yes. And no. >> And my question for you is why?

>> Uh I was in a relationship once where I

found out it started because of the money. >> Yeah, that makes sense. >> I guess I never wanted to have >> Hang on. We're going to talk about this after the break cuz it's a good question. I appreciate you calling in.

Hang on.

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We're talking with Brian in Minneapolis.

Jade Waw is my co-host. Brian has a net worth of around 20 million. He's been engaged for eight months and has not

told her yet the amount of his wealth.

He makes 700,000 a year and she doesn't know exactly how much. She knows he has a lot, makes a lot, but that's all and not everything. And that's about how far we got in the conversation. He's asking how to let her know now and to talk to her about a prenup. So, let me backtrack

for a second. So, the reason you've not disclosed this to her is because you got you had someone before that was after you and you realized they were only after you for your money, right?

>> Yeah, you could sum it up to that. And so, and she How do you know this lady's not?

>> She's I I can say one of we did have a talk about debt because obviously I'm not a fan of it. And she did at one time have some debt and I went >> How do you know she's not after your money?

Uh because she never asked for anything.

She she tried to pay me back. Tried to give me money every month when I did that. And I obviously said, "I don't want it. Please." >> Oh, she gave you gave her some money.

>> I I did pay off her debt. She had debt and I I did pay it off. How much?

>> I looked at it that >> uh looks like 40,000.

>> So I wouldn't It was some student loans, uh car, and she had unfortunately a payday loan like you just talked But for someone who's so worried about her not finding out that you have wealth cuz she might be after you for your money. You sure did write a $40,000 check.

>> That's inconsistent.

>> Yeah. I I look at that as I've been with

her, you know, for years and if it got backed up that I got burnt on it. Hey, I got >> How early into the relationship did you pay off her debt?

>> Uh two years.

>> Okay. >> So not really early. >> Mhm. >> No. in it. Um, and I looked at it that if she left me, I >> And did she ask? Did she ask? She did not ask. Okay. You did say that. Pay it back. >> All right. So, okay. Here's the thing.

Um,

>> what makes you what makes you what makes And so just the fact that she's never asked you for anything and offered to pay that back makes her makes you think she's not after your money.

>> Yeah. I I I just think I would have seen it in the in the course of three years that we've been together that she she never came to me from >> How do you react to this statement? How do you react to this statement?

>> You should have told her before you

asked her to marry you.

>> Agreed. >> Okay. All right.

>> I don't >> because you shouldn't ask someone to marry you that you can't be honest with and transparent with that you don't trust.

>> Yeah. You know, I I I fully know I'm in the wrong. >> Okay. Uh, I mean, >> so I think the I think the conversation starts with that. I owe you an apology.

>> We should have talked in detail about our finances before we got engaged and I

didn't do that because I was afraid because of this other person, the way I was treated before. I don't think you're that person and I'm didn't know how to handle this and so I'm sorry. Now I've got to do something that I should have done eight months ago and that's unpack for you what I have.

>> Yeah. No, I I I I I truly agree. I just

>> I think that I think that's the way you have the conversation and you have it.

You have 24 hours, my man.

>> Okay. >> No more dreading this. No more thinking about it. This is cost. You can't sleep.

You're fretting about this. You're worried about this. >> Bob, second quick question then. Uh I actually won't see her. We actually uh I'm an American and she's a Canadian so I travel back and forth so I won't see her for actually a couple weeks.

>> Well then wait till you see her. This is in personace. >> Yeah. This is in person. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And I we do not recommend prenups except in situations where there's extreme difference >> in their net worth. And there's extreme difference here. So, I do recommend a prenup.

>> Okay? >> I recommend it. I I'm not your lawyer. I didn't tell you you have to do it.

>> But and let me tell you, if you think that you need a prenup

to protect you from her, don't get married.

>> Yeah. I I I don't believe that for one second. >> The only reason you're getting a prenup is to protect you from her crazy relatives.

>> And she has one. >> Yeah. Well, everybody does. And if you think they don't, then that means it's you.

>> No.

>> So, >> all right. So, when you get next time you're in person, we sit down and you start with I an apology that you should

have trusted her enough to unpack this before you ask for her hand.

Okay. >> And then you tell her what's going on and what we're doing. And um you know, a

financial advisor has suggested we discuss have has recommended we have a prenup to protect us. So you can look at your family and say, "I don't have anything. He handles it all." And um and

you come into the you go out of the marriage with what you came into the marriage with and basic prenup stuff.

Okay.

>> Sounds sounds good. >> Yeah. Very interesting.

>> Thanks for the call. Thank you so much. >> Appreciate it. >> Yep. Have a great day. >> You too. So, Jade, um John Deloney posed an interesting question to me the other day and it'll come up again in the next few months because he's doing some writing about it.

>> He read uh a book, I guess it was, or talked to an expert somewhere that said, um you know, we tell people get a will.

>> Mhm. >> Right. Why? Because if you don't get a will, the law tells you and the the court system tells you what what's going to happen.

>> That's right. That's right. That's right. And this guy's argument to get a prenup was so intriguing. We had a great

discussion about it the other day on the plane. Um this guy's argument was you

have a prenup because the law is there.

>> The law the judge and the court's going to just like with a will. They're going to tell you what's going to happen.

>> But with a prenupide >> you you decide what's going to happen.

And I've been so anti- prenup over the years that that created a really interesting discussion. I'm still not going to tell you to get a prenup.

>> But it did it did make me it did frame it >> in a way I had never thought about it before, >> which is you can preerdecide while you're in your right mind.

>> Yeah. Well, just like you do with a will >> without spite, without anger, without >> just like you do with a will. And then the judge doesn't tell you. The judge has to go along with what the prenup says. >> Judges, you know, if the prenup's properly written, it can't be the courts courts can't undo it. Mhm. Mhm.

>> And so, um, I mean, by and large, there's some movie scenes that tell you, but I mean, it's, >> um, >> I think of that one with Clooney that's hilarious, but, um, anyway, the, uh, uh,

>> yeah. Yeah. It, you predecide what's going to happen. Otherwise, the law decides and the judge decides. That's the same thing we tell people to do with the will. >> Now, the difference is you're going to die >> and you might not get divorced. >> That's facts. That's facts. Yeah. Yeah.

>> There's a difference there. And uh you know while dying while dying is a spiritual decision so is divorce.

>> I think the divorce thing it's like that for both. It's almost like what you're going to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. >> Exactly. That's the problem. You're planning something and so you're aiming at it unintentionally. You spoke it.

>> Yes. Cuz everybody dies. Everybody doesn't have to get divorced. Yeah. I get it. >> Exactly. Yeah. So that that's it's just an interesting I had never heard it framed that way and it made me stop and think about prenups. I was a little lighter, a little calmer about it cuz I'm real anti- prenup. I I >> We had one lady call here on the show many years ago said her fiance wanted to get a prenup because he had a 67

>> vintage Mustang.

And I'm like, don't marry this guy. He loves his car more than you.

>> Run, girl. Run. And so, you know, that

that's the kind of crap I associate with prenups, right? Um, but the idea that two people >> if you got 20 million bucks and you know that's a lot. >> But even the idea that two people could sit down and say, "Hey, we're getting married. Let's do some some planning and

if you decided together, here's in the

unlikely event." It's like it's like when you ride a plane and they go through the safety precautions. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> In the unlikely event of a water landing, a divorce landing, here's what we're going to do.

Yeah. >> And then it's like you've done it before. There's anger. Before there I don't know.

I It's an interesting conversation for sure. >> Wow. >> I I I I still not a fan. I'm still not going to tell you to do it, but it did I will I'm admitting here on the air that it made me stop and think about it.

I'm thinking about it now.

>> As I'm thinking about it though, I'm also thinking if Sam Warshaw came to me with this conversation, I'd be like, >> "Yeah, >> the door is that way. >> We'd be done, bud. We'd be done, man." >> Yeah, >> we'd be done. Yeah. So yeah. So there you have it. That's the other thing is u I mean Sharon and I got married at 22 years old. I had a $112.

>> Yes. >> I mean it I I I couldn't even have paid to have the prenup done, >> right? >> Much less thought about. I needed one.

>> Uh-huh. And I had negative dollars.

>> I was just so happy to be here, you know? That's all. I'm just happy to be here.

>> Wow.

Heat. Hey, Heat.

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Countdown to Christmas is on. We got a ton of great deals for Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Plus, we're dropping special one-day sales on Black Friday and Cyber Monday. We're talking hard coverver books, audiobooks, assessments, some with as low as $3.99.

Don't miss these deals. Go to ramissysolutions.com/store or click the link in the show notes in the description. We would love to have you. All right, Jennifer is on a Zoom call with us in California. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> I am well. How are you? Thank you so much for having me, you guys. Thank you.

>> Our honor. How can we help you today?

>> Um, this is a hard question. I need help around my heart because my heart is not right. I'm having resentment and I'm a Christian. I don't believe that that is what we need to do.

>> Uh, I married a wonderful man, but now we are uh continuing to pay his ex-wife's child support. She went back for more and I am angry and resentful

and it's we're snapping at each other more and I'm I took Jade's advice. Jade taught me this where she said fight the problem, not fight each other. Right.

So, I'm like, okay, we're going to fight the problem. But, um but it's affecting everything. It's affecting even me parenting his kids and it's just affecting everything. >> The amount the amount of it or the the him having to deal with her?

I think all of it because that he's because we we do everything together, right? So, it's not just him. That actually triggers me. I love that you said that too. Like that he's going through it and I'm like, I'm going through it too, my love. It's my money as well and he just got a layoff.

>> Um, and so he his last, you know, he's going to end December and then he's he's laid off >> and mama does not make enough for our four walls. Like our four walls are it's 7,300 just to exist is $7,300

a month. >> And what do you make a month?

Mama only makes three uh 38.84.

>> And what was he making?

>> He makes uh 5060. So 5,60.

>> Okay. >> And how much how much is the child support? >> So the child support's not killing. It's 500. It's 500 right now. We go back because he's laid off. So the court knows that he's getting laid off. So we go back in February because she want she wants like the the all of it.

>> The the gun the good stuff. Um, and so thankfully they they and she she's surprised us too that she came to court and was like, "Oh, well I was laid off, too." So now we're like, "Oh, what?" Like you didn't tell us that you were laid off. We were transparent and let her know that oh gosh, you know, he received a layoff and you know, we're done in December. >> But then we found out like cuz she's remarried, but then we found out she's not remarried and she's she had a ceremony.

She's married.

shoes, I can see why this is a painoint.

I can see how it's annoying. I can especially I mean this woman's in your life whether you like it or not. If I could make this way more if I were in your shoes, I'd be picturing the child cuz the fact is if you make a human being, you got to pay for them. Period.

Like the same way you pay for money to raise your kids. That's just part of it.

So, I'd be thinking way more about the kid as much as you can. Imagine them.

Think about what that $500 is doing for them and try to keep her out of that vision as much as possible.

>> Yeah. This is not ex-wife support. This is child support, >> right? >> Yeah. That and and that that you know, and honestly, when he is working, what is the child support?

>> Uh, we don't know yet. So, because she's still he's never paid child support.

>> No, he did. Well, so he she actually was not awarded child support and alimony, which she went for the first time. She was because when he laid everything out, he paid everything already. He paid her car insurance, he paid cell phone plus all the all the kids. >> So what the court decided was just disparaging income. He got family

support. So he used to pay about 500 family support >> with the stipulation that he continues to pay everything, all after school care, dental, you know, all the things plus her car insurance and her cell phone and stuff. He still had to do that for two years. >> Okay. But that's over now. That's over now. >> So that was over. And >> you married into that though. You knew that when you got married, >> right? >> Okay. Let me Let me So that was how much total in a month that he was paying out.

>> See? So she he Oh gosh. To total all the bills. I don't know. All the bills were like all the medical, her car insurance, whatever. Probably. >> Okay. So when you go back, it's not going to be any of that. It's going to just be a percentage of his income.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good. >> In February, it'll be whatever. That's really good because really what that does is it disconnects her from misbehaving and wanting it paid for.

>> Okay? She just gets a fixed amount of his income regardless. Uh but she doesn't get it anyway. Kiddo gets it to J. >> So we're paying this for this child. And you knew this when you came in. It's not his fault. It's not your fault. And it's not even benefiting the lady, the the the ex-wife. Um it's just benefiting the

kid. Mhm. >> And truthfully, the reason I ask how much is most of the time in most states,

the child support that is paid is not enough to raise a kid. >> Mhm. It's a very small amount.

>> Yeah. So, she he's going to pay a lot, but and it's going to be bothersome, but it's still not enough to raise a kid.

>> And so, um Yeah. Um and how old is the child? >> We have two. Well, he has two. So, he has a seven-year-old son and an 11-year-old daughter. And then I have two. >> Okay. Family of six over here.

How old are yours?

>> So, mine. So, oh my god, you guys. We're in the thick of it. We have a 7-year-old, a 10-year-old, an 11-year-old, and a 12-year-old. >> So, then this is easy for you to imagine

these kids when you write that $500 check or whatever it's going to be. It's easy for you to imagine, okay, yeah, they they go to ballet and they go to, you know, they have soccer and they have school lunch. You know what this money is going for? They need new boots, all that stuff.

That's what you you need to focus on that. And you need to get practical about this.

>> You need to focus on what is happening today and what is the benefit and just remind yourself here's why I'm doing this. I got to refocus and I think that's going to help you. >> His youngest is how old?

>> Seven. >> Okay. So you got she got 10 years 11 years. Yeah.

>> Yes. >> That's really not much in the scope of life. That's not much. And um >> and um >> it's a me problem.

I I just >> No, I'm not we're not we're not picking on you. I think I think it's normal to have the emotions that you have. You ask how to handle them and we're just suggesting we redirect them and compartmentalize them. You've uh the way you've described it with your language was it's all about her.

And Jade's point is none of it's really about her other than she's obviously a test pilot for a broom factory. Yeah.

know, there's a reason she's called the ex. And so, you know, and and so we get

that part, but that's normal dealing with exes. There's a reason they're gone. >> And so, uh >> uh but yeah, you're going to be in weddings together. Um and you'll be at other things together in the future and for the rest of your life.

Um and it'll get easier and easier. But yeah, I I I like the idea that we're getting away from paying individual expenses like her cell phone. Yes, >> that sounds kind of ridiculous and personal. >> I would I would be much more torquked about that if I were in your shoes than I would just writing a child support check.

>> Yes, that was very difficult when I first >> stupid. That was just a bad idea. Yeah, >> but that part's over. >> Yeah, it's gone.

>> That part's done and gone.

>> I have a feeling you love your husband and I have a feeling you actually love his kids. >> I do. Of course I do. So this is their this is their money.

>> Yeah. >> And you would help them because you're a good mom. >> So yeah, >> that is really helpful. Oh my gosh.

>> That's that's the right way to do it.

Yeah. You're heading in the right direction for sure there. So I'm proud of you. It's a good question. It is good. >> And I appreciate you being vulnerable and coming on the air with us and talking about it. >> It's such a human way to feel.

>> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. It's hard. I mean kiddos are kiddos and that's where we are. Thanks for calling. We appreciate you being with us. >> Fun. Wow. I like that video situation.

That's nice. >> Yeah. I mean, that's super. I mean, we get these calls in there on the air on the phone. It's anonymous right here.

Well, you just walked right >> right into her house. I like that.

>> That's a And on a very, uh, personal

intimate question. >> Oh, yeah. >> So, uh, very interesting. Very, >> that's not easy. That's not an easy situation to deal with. No, but I mean I'm, you know, I uh so I guess some advice would be for everyone out there if you're going through this, don't set up a situation where you're paying for individual bills like that >> with the ex like for God's sakes her cell phone. >> That one's that one's just whack.

>> Well, then you're in their life. You're without wanting to, you're judging how they're, you know, judging the cost, judging >> I don't I want them to be away.

>> That's the reason they're ex. Go away.

>> Yes. Way away.

>> Way away. way away. Go find an away

place to be. Yeah.

>> I don't want I don't want to know what your issues are and I actually know what they are and I don't want to know about them anymore, you know. >> And so yeah, I don't want to know about medical. I don't you know, you deal with your stuff. >> There's an idea.

That's what you signed up for when you became the ex. You deal with your stuff. And here's what the law says I have to do to take care of my baby. And I will do take care of the baby.

That's what I'm going to do.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Heat. Heat. Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Jade Wall, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. I am Dave Ramsey, your

host. Albert Einstein famously said, "Compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world. He who understands it earns it. He who doesn't pays it."

If you invest $100 a month and you got

average stock market returns for the past 100 years or so, you would hit around 12%.

$100 a month invested from age 25 to age

65 is $1,176,000.

How is it that $1,200 a month for 40

years becomes $1 million?

$1,200 a year for 40 years.

>> There you go. >> Yeah. Becomes It's called compound interest. So compound interest, uh, Buffett described it as a snowball rolling down the hill.

So a little snowball picks up a little snow the first time it comes around. The next time it comes around, it's larger and it picks up more snow. The next time it comes around, it picks up more snow. and the next time it picks up.

And that's called a mathematical geometric progression. And so compound interest shows you that interest works on a curve. It is not a straight line. So an example of that is if you took a $500,000 mortgage.

Now interest rates currently on homes for a 15-year fix is 5 a.5%. Okay?

loan, we'll call it to make it easy, on a half a million dollars, >> your payment on that 15-year fixed rate

loan would be $3,953.

If you doubled the amount of time

that you're in debt from 15 years to 30 years, you would think, if you didn't

understand compound interest, that your payment would be half.

So 15 should be double what a 30 is.

Correct. >> Well, it's not. It's only 33% more

to be in debt half 50% of the time.

>> That's right. >> Because the the compound because you're doing away with the principal and doing away with the need to pay interest. And so you pay a lot less interest and

you're pay and so your payment is only 33% more to go to a 15-year from a 30-year.

It's not it's not double. But if you don't understand how the math works, you think, oh, a 15 and a 30 is a is thing.

So, a couple of weeks ago, uh, President Donald Trump came out with this, uh, crazy idea for 50year mortgages,

to which instantaneously my friend Seth Dylan over at Babylon B does a uh, does

a photoshop of me in intensive care.

Dave Ramsey's in intensive care in critical condition after learning of 50-year mortgages. Mr. Get out of bed.

And so, and I really look pretty sick in this. And I got here's the dumbest thing, okay? All of my 65year-old and

60-year-old and 70-year-old friends sent that to me laughing >> because it's the best dad joke ever. But none none of my 25-year-old friends thought it was that funny. They didn't even get it really. It's like, I don't understand.

But I did look pretty sick in there, Seth. you. I mean, did you really you doctorred the face up and everything? >> You were slim.

You were >> like, >> the guy the guys at Babylon B I'm look I look kind of old. It's like water. I need water. >> Water.

>> Yeah. So, Babylon B is funny. They're they're friends of ours and they're always they're always pick on me, but it's good naturatured and we love them and they're great.

President Trump actually realizes, I suppose, uh, because he is a a math guy and a real estate guy, that the difference in a 50-year mortgage and a 30-year mortgage is more about

looking like he did something to help people, >> okay, >> than the math is. This is a political

stunt by President Trump if he actually knows what's going on. Otherwise, it's an ignorant stunt by President Trump. I don't know which one it is because the difference in a 50-year mortgage and a 30-year mortgage, as we just described, you would think it would be almost half, but it's only 16% less. So, your payment

on a 50-year on a half million dollar is 2,200 bucks. On a 30-year is 2,600

bucks. You save a whole $300

by going in debt an extra 20 freaking

years >> and you save $300. And this is going to fix America's housing crisis. Oh, horse crap, Trump. That's absolutely asinine.

And you know it. It's ridiculous.

I mean, come on. >> Not to And then talk about the interest.

>> I mean, this is like Joe Biden saying he's forgiving student loans when he knows he can't. Okay, it's just the same. It's political stunt. You know you can't do this. The law won't let you do it, but you're walking around strutting around acting like you did something.

You politicians. So Trump's like, "I'm going to give him a 50-year mortgage." Like, because he's got billions of dollars of mortgages on all these New York buildings, and he just loves debt.

He thinks it's awesome. He and I have disagreed on that since back in the Larry King days. I remember y'all remember Larry King. >> Oh, Larry King live of course.

>> We used to do those TV shows and they had like six people on there. Look like uh uh Brady Bunch. Look like the Brady Bunch. We're in the boxes on the Brady Bunch and Trump would be in the lefth hand bottom corner and I'm up in the other corner and I'm yelling at him about getting out of debt and he's like, "Who is this hillbilly on the thing with me?" He and that's the first time he and I ever talked was I got in a big fight with him on Larry King like 25 or 30 years ago.

around him several times, but this is an absolute bogus political stunt and he knows it. He's over laughing at you people going, "Oh, 50 years we're not going to have to pay anything. We can get a mortgage for almost nothing." Compound interest, baby. We just explained it to you.

It saves you almost nothing over a 30-year mortgage, >> 16%, but you're almost 100% more in debt. >> But talk about the fact that it's a trap in that cuz I've heard a lot of people say, "Well, I can get it. It's a great place to start and then later on I can move something else." >> Yeah, there's a great place to start to go to a payday lender, too. It's a great place to start to go to a pawn shop.

>> They're not thinking about when you when you do that, how quickly are you gaining equity? It is not gaining equity except the house goes up in value.

>> Yeah. But you're, you know, you could get an interestonly loan and it would be almost the same thing.

>> Basically, >> they had interest only loans for a while. Y'all remember those? >> That was stupid on steroids. Hello, 2008, we're calling.

>> And yeah, does anybody remember stupid on steroids? I remember it. How about a one-year adjustable rate mortgage tied to an index that already started in the hole your first day? In other words, if you had to adjust it the day you took out the mortgage, you would already be going up.

That's how all the one-year arms are set up. By the way, boys and girls, this is why it's stupid. The game is rigged. So, what you want to do is if you're going to get in the game, you want to get out as fast as possible, not plan to stay in.

So, you're not saving anything by taking out a 50-year mortgage. Sorry, President Trump.

move. You either knew it or you didn't, but now at least if when you hear this, you'll at least know. And um I was on a call with him just a few weeks ago on some other stuff. >> You told him it was done.

>> No, it wasn't out by then. It came out about 3 days after that. Um, but I I I'm not gonna, you know, he he'll hear about this or he won't. I don't, it doesn't matter.

He He's not taking Dave Ramsey's opinion anyway. I can tell you that. It's not He is not worried about what I think at all. He's not worried about what anything thinks.

But, but bottom line, boys and girls, this political move, okay?

cuts it 16%.

Don't be stupid. >> If you're interested in lowering your payment $300, just get a slightly cheaper house. >> OH, WHOA.

MIC DROP. WHOA. THIS IS WHY WE PAY HER

THE BIG money right here, boys and girls.

T is the season time of year when we talk about giving.

We're going to be doing our giving edition, the special giving edition of the Ramsey Show in December. We want to hear stories from you about how you have

given generously sometime in the past and maybe you tipped a waitress $100 or $1,000 or bought Thanksgiving dinner for a family who couldn't afford it. Or maybe you bless someone in need by giving them a car. Maybe it was something other than that. We want to hear something that makes everybody be inspired to give.

Generosity is the most fun you can have with money. Maybe you've been on the receiving end and had your life changed by someone who was generous to you.

Well, we want to hear from you. Either way, go to ramseyolutions.com/ask.

Put giving in the subject line. Tell us a little bit about the story. And we do this every year at Christmas time. It's one of our most popular shows. It's coming up on December 18th. So, start

sending in your stories on giving today.

Let's celebrate living like no one else so later you can give like no one else.

Robin is with us in Orlando. Hi Robin.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. You're the only person I think that I want your opinion on this.

My husband wants to buy a $300,000 car

and it just puts a rock in the pit of my stomach. So my question is what is the car? >> Yeah.

>> Like a Shelby. Oh, wow. Really?

>> Oh, see, now you like it. See, that's my finance guy, Matt. I say to Matt,

Listen, it's a very cool car. But, uh, so the the question is, um, is just, you

know, how much is $300,000 in your world? What's your all's net worth?

>> Close to 20.

>> 20 what?

>> Million. >> So, you have $20 million. Okay.

>> Yes. And are you retired or does he work or >> We're retired. Uh we retired last year.

>> Okay. >> Sold the business and we are Yeah. fully retired. Plenty of investment. I mean I

>> I really have no reason to say no to this except something in me says this is absolutely ridiculous. This is the worst idea he's ever had. But I don't want to cause a problem and say that. I need somebody to tell me which direction to go.

>> I think you should say that.

And I think then I think then I think you should say that's how I feel.

>> But my brain tells me that we have the money and you've worked hard a really long time and this is a small amount of money to us. My heart doesn't understand that and my stomach definitely doesn't understand that because you remember the old days when y'all were broke and couldn't, you know, couldn't afford to go out to eat, right?

>> Oh yeah. I always took care of the money and um >> so here's the thing. I've gone through the same stuff Robin Sharon and I have and um >> you know we've got 1100 people working here. We buy the coffee for our team.

The coffee bill at Ramsay blows my

freaking mind. Okay. Because my mind

still remembers my 28-year-old self that was bankrupt and couldn't feed my kids, right? My my emotions still feel that.

My mind though knows that the company took in $300 million last year. We can probably pay the coffee bill, >> right? We can afford. So the math, the math says it's no big deal. But the emotions are remembering the past,

not the current.

And so I have to use my intellect to go it's okay to buy coffee for 1100 people because it really is a small percentage of our overall budget and overall world.

And if here's the thing here's the thing when Sharon wants to buy something expensive or Dave or we want to give away $300,000 to charity to a ministry. Okay. In your situation, we ask ourself, if we took that amount of money and burned it in the kitchen floor, would our life change?

So, here's the thing. >> The stock market will move on your $20 million worth of investments more than 300 grand in the next 60 days, up or down.

>> True. >> And you won't even look at it.

>> That's true. >> Yeah. So, it's not because it's not it's not relevant. It's not going to kill you.

If it moved if it moved if it moved 20 if it moved $18 million out of 20 million. Yeah, I'm starting to have a duck fit now, girl.

>> Okay. I like how you put it.

>> It's a small percentage of your world and you you will survive. And it's the the thing that makes you want to scream is remembering how hard it was in the old days to get to this point.

And it's hard for your emotions to keep up with the math.

>> A $300,000 car is just outrageous.

>> It is. It is outrageous. You know what else is outrageous? You got $20 million,

girl.

>> That's freaking outrageously wonderful.

>> That's so wonderful. You know why? Cuz y'all busted your butt all these years and then you sold that business or somebody wrote you a big old check.

>> This is very true.

Luck didn't have nothing to do with this girl. >> You paid a price. >> Yeah, it was. >> You worked overtime. Y'all know what a Y'all know what a callous looks like. What kind of business was it?

>> It was construction industry. >> Yeah, you definitely know what a callous looks like. You've put up with some bull crap over the years.

>> H Yeah. Just make him so happy. But

>> I'm not for a car. It's not >> I want to talk to your wife and see what she says. >> She would say do it because I drive a Raptor. It's probably o, you know, it's over a hundred. So, my Raptor R, my

Raptor R pickup truck is nuts. It's crazy. There's no reason anybody should ever have a truck like that, but it's a very, very small percentage of our world.

>> All right. You've made me feel better. I appreciate it. >> I don't think you're being dumb. I don't think he's being dumb.

>> I think you don't I don't think you appreciate cars like he does. And that's okay. You don't have to. Um, and I think you're a good lady for looking over his shoulder and and I and I like Don't you love the way she's uh at She really is

asking the question. She's not telling us the question. You know what I'm saying, Jade? >> Mhm. I do.

>> Well, it's been eating me. And you know, kind of funny because I called a couple of times and then I would find out, well, you weren't on, but I couldn't hold on anyway. So, I just happened to get right through today because I knew I needed to ask you this. >> Oh, it's just me. >> I feel a lot better. Well, I just I feel like you your attitude with cars and

again, I wanted to talk to your wife more than you, I think.

>> Yeah. Doesn't everybody? We can't get her to come on. She comes on Rachel's show, but she won't come on my show.

>> Darn. All right. You made me feel better. The rock in my stomach is a little easier. I will tell him. At least it'll get off my chest. But >> tell him you think it's dumb, but you think he's earned it.

>> That's the way I'm going to put it. I think it's dumb, but he has earned it.

>> That's the truth. He has earned it. 20 million freaking dollars for a construction company.

>> I'm back. >> Back. Well, yeah.

>> Did you go around the planet once? >> I went around the planet. I I DID AN ORBIT and now I'm back.

>> H. So, when you live like no one else, one of the things we're discovering is we've shown people how to become millionaires, in some cases multi-millionaires. Now, we didn't show them how to sell their company. They did that. We'll give them all the credit on that. >> But we've shown a lot of people how to build >> a really nice level of wealth.

>> And um >> but a lot of money is always a lot of money. Even if it's a smaller percentage, everybody can look at $300,000 and go, "That's a lot of money." >> Yeah. I can look at that and say, >> you see what I'm saying? That part doesn't go away. I got to believe. >> Yeah. and a and you know and honestly

probably top of the market for I mean the Shelby that's a >> this is a special car but it's uh special car I don't know I'm not sure anyway doesn't matter doesn't matter again it passes the burn the money in the middle of the floor test >> right >> and so this is why you can't afford to spend 20 I don't know let's just say

$12,000 and go spend a week on Fast Pass

at Disney when you have $20,000 to your

Oo, >> you just spent all your money on Disney.

>> Now, see, that's way different. The, you know, if you want to put this in a ratio with her, uh, you can afford a Chick-fil-A biscuit. I was >> going to say that's drive-thru. >> That's that's your drive-thru biscuit.

That's your drive-through budget right there. So, this is like you buying a biscuit if you if you got $20,000. Yeah.

Same thing. So, 20 million, 20,000 little. >> But, it doesn't feel somehow it still doesn't feel that way. You know it, but it doesn't feel that way. Huh?

Or does it feel Did buying your Raptor feel like a biscuit?

>> Yeah, but it's the third. It's the third one I bought. >> Okay. Okay. You got three biscuits.

>> I've gotten practice.

The all-new Every Dollar is here. It's

way more than just our worldass budgeting app. >> Ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money and show you hand by hand by hand how to follow the Ramsay way. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in the first 15 minutes of using the app. And that gets you started to work your way out of debt into wealth and into generosity. Start Every Dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or on Google Play. The world's best

financial tool. Every Dollar. The all new one. Check it out. South Dakota's calling. Sarah is with us. Hi Sarah.

>> Hey. How are you guys today?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Well, say just have a quick question.

So, um, my husband and I got a term life

insurance policy through Xander when our son was first born. >> Mhm. >> U, but that was 15 years ago. And,

um, since then, life has hit a little bit. Um, we are still making progress with our debt snowball. Um, we're actually planning to pay off our last debt um by um hopefully February. Um,

however, we're not there yet. Um, but

over the years, our income has increased quite quite a bit. So, when we were first married, we were making about 70 combined. Now, we're making about 180.

Uh, so my question is, um, >> why is it taking you 15 years to get out of debt?

Well, you know, maybe weren't so gazelle

intense. Um, >> like not at all. Okay.

>> Right. Right. But we're getting there now. Um, so we're getting really close.

And we >> So everything you still have a mortgage and you still have what else?

>> Uh, we have 8,000 on my student loan and

we've got our mortgage and that is all

we have left. >> Wow. >> So what's the question today?

So the question today we are curious do we need to consider increasing our life insurance through Xander um given that our income has gone up um I know the recommendation is like 10 to 12% of >> that's right >> your overall income or because we're so close to being debtree do we not need to

take that approach because ultimately we'll be self-funded through insurance >> no you need to extend because self being

self-insured would denote that you've got a massive nest egg of wealth that

can cover you when those situations arise. And you don't have that just yet.

If you keep going with intensity, you will. But if you play the next 15 years, like you've paid the played this last 15 years, >> you're still going to be in debt. >> Mhm.

>> You'll still have a mortgage.

>> Well, we are definitely not looking to

do that. We're definitely looking to get to that mortgage as soon as the student loans paid off. When you have enough money, when you have enough money in investments >> that the income off of the investments will support you, if he dies,

>> then you're self-insured.

>> You're not there.

We want you to be okay if something happens to him and you're not there.

>> Okay? Um and we want him to be okay if something happens to you and make sure the kiddos are fed and so forth. And that would be that, you know, and so if you had a million dollar and it was producing uh 10% that'd be $100,000.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And that's not even that won't even take care of you now because you're making >> 180. Mhm. >> And so you need about $2 million in investments right now in zero debt in order to be self-insured equal to, you know, having the right amount of life insurance. So no, yeah, you need to increase your life insurance and buy new policies. Yeah. If your 15-year fixed policy is running out, buy

by buy new ones. Yeah. >> And um >> Yeah. And here's the thing. If if you do get intense, >> um if that did happen and you get out of debt and you look up and there's a million or two million dollars in investments and zero debt, you can cancel the life insurance.

>> You don't have to keep paying it. You can just call them and cancel it. Mhm.

>> But um if you're not if you don't smoke, folks, and you're not overweight, life

insurance doesn't cost anything. It's very inexpensive. >> Very. >> So 15ear level, 15 to 20 year level

fixed rate. And the idea is that during

that 15 years, you pay off your mortgage. >> Well, yeah. >> And you get out of debt and you build up some investments and the kids grow up and leave. >> That's right. >> During that 15 to 20 years. And so we don't have kiddos to take care of. We've got a pile of money. and you you work your way into a net worth that allows

you to be self-insured >> the policy >> and so but you guys have been slow so

you get to reup your life insurance and uh and then you can always drop it later but for right now you're not ready.

>> That's a good question. >> Yeah. Felix is in Los Angeles. Hi Felix.

How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Uh thank you so much for the opportunity uh to be on the show. Sure.

Um, I'm calling today to get more to get your advice on my current living situation. Uh, I work for a government

uh utilities agency in Los Angeles as a engineer. Uh, I currently live in downtown LA. Uh, I'm paying uh about

$3,000 in rent per month and uh I just

turned 30 this year and I watch your show. I hear you know your advice about ownership and owning a home someday >> and that's a goal for mine for my for my

life as well and I wanted to get your thoughts on you know renewing uh my lease which expires uh this month or

going back home to stay with my parents.

>> Well, how much do you bring home every month?

Uh, so, uh, after tax I bring home about, um, somewhere between $6,000 to

$6,500.

>> So, um, your, what you're telling me is your rent's 50% of your take-home.

>> Yes. Uh, it's Yes, it's around that. Uh,

if you include utilities and, you know, survival. Yeah. >> So, I think, you know, there's there's one of two things that can happen here.

You can either figure out a way to bust free and suddenly make $20,000, you

know, a month, or you can look for someplace that's far less expensive for

rent. What would you do if you moved,

you know, away and moved towards where your family is? What would you do for a living?

>> Uh, well, I would still be an engineer.

Um my my my my my family stays in uh

Fontana, which is about maybe uh 50

miles away from Los Angeles. So I would >> Do you have an engineering degree?

>> Uh yes, I have a bachelor's in civil engineering and I have a master's in environmental engineering >> and you make $70,000 a year.

>> Well, that's that's No, I make around $105,000 a year. >> How long you been out of school?

Uh, I graduated with my masters in 2023

and shortly after is when I moved to LA and got my my job in Los Angeles.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're living in one of the most expensive places in the country. So, that there is always going

to be a limit because of that. So, I I

if I were in your shoes, yeah, I'd be looking for other places. Now, Fontana that you mentioned, I mean, have you priced it out? What's the difference? What could where could you could you get a onebedroom and what would it cost?

Would it get you to the 25% range?

>> Uh, well, in in LA, um, it's it's it's

very difficult to to find a place to stay. Um, >> I'm talking about Fontana, like you said. >> I I'll be staying with my parents.

>> Okay. So, Felix, here's the thing.

>> What you want staying with your parents is not your is not your play >> because it doesn't take you to the future you want. >> You've said no. You said nothing about where you want to be in 20 years, in 10 years, and and how staying with your parents is going to get you there. All we're doing solving the immediate problem by going backwards. So, no, I'm

not going to do that. If I'm you, I'm looking for a new job that pays 150,000

in a market where the rent is half of what it is in LA and you make a move for

your career. you're a single guy and you go out there and make some money and get your cost of housing down because and if you're working for a utility, your bumps, your increases in pay are going to be moderate to poor.

>> Yeah, it's a it's a government it's a government it's a government job. So, >> yeah, it's going to be moderate to poor.

The pay is already low and it's not going to get better. You're going to get cost of living bumps and nothing else.

And so as an engineer, you can go out there and make twice what you're making now in an area that costs half what it costs to live in LA. And that puts you in a position to build a life, a financial life, including home ownership. But the ratio you're giving me right now, going back to your parents, doesn't solve it.

>> No, >> that's regressing instead of saying, "How can I move forward?" So I'm going to be figuring out a way to move forward. either a different kind of engineer application for my masters in engineering in Los Angeles where I make a lot more or a different city or both.

Our

scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 3:11.

He has made everything beautiful in its time. He's also set eternity in every human heart. Yet no one can fathom what

God has done from beginning to end. Andy

Warhol said, "They always say time changes things, but actually you have to change them yourself." >> All right, this is true with that.

>> Uh, Megan's in Detroit. Hi, Megan.

What's up? >> Hi. Um, I love you guys. I just want to say that first and foremost. Um, but my

question is, my husband and I just got married in September, and this year so far, we've been really working the debt snowball and paying for our um like

paying off some of our loans while saving for our wedding. And the plan was when we finished saving and paying for our wedding, we would go back and really like work our debt down. And six weeks

before we got married, my little brother died. And yeah, it's not really what I

pictured this season to look like.

>> And I guess my pro my um question is I'm

just curious on your perspective of like taking a break from the death snowball in the first year of this time.

>> What happened to him?

>> Uh he was in an accident.

>> How old was he?

>> 23. >> What was his name?

>> Uh Rocco. >> Rocco. Okay. I'm sorry, Megan. That

hurts beyond belief. Um, and you were

obviously close. Yeah. Uh,

>> yeah.

>> And how old are you?

>> 29. >> Okay. All right.

Well, um,

you're welcome to do whatever you want to do. It's your life. Okay. And if you

and your husband sit down and say, "We're going to take x number of time off and just uh we're not going into

debt. We're not going to grief spend,

but we're just going to take some time off with the intensity and cry a little." >> Um that would be perfectly fine. Mhm.

>> Um, what I would recommend is a that you stay on a plan because you can have a tendency to drift and go, "Well, I'm having kind of a down day, so I'm going to overspend." It's called grief spending. Okay? And you don't want to do that. You don't want to lose ground. You You won't like that later when you look back at it.

Does that make sense?

>> Yeah. >> It's easy to medicate grief with spending. A lot of people do it. And so, be careful with that. But if you say, "Okay, we're going to slow off on the intensity. We're just going to pay the bills, go no further into debt, and just

give ourselves a little cushion for some time to get to where we can breathe again." Well, that would be a human act.

There's nothing wrong with that.

>> What's like um I guess because I know this is not really like a unique situation. I mean, it feels unique to me, but you guys hear this call a lot.

like what's a good amount of time

>> to give yourself before you >> we don't get this call a lot. Uh we get the call where it's a spouse >> and that's the one I've answered many times in the 35 years, but I I don't I don't know that I've gotten a call from a sister with a 23 year old that was killed in an accident. I mean, that's that that's a different kind of thing than your spouse. >> It could be a good idea, and I I'm just talking out loud.

that you don't stay wandering for too

long. Almost like, okay, I did my thing.

I it's time for me to get moving. It's kind of like when you're sitting on the couch after a while, you need to just get up and and stretch your legs and move around again. >> Yeah. What's your household income?

>> So, after tax from our day jobs, we

bring in $9,800 a month. >> Okay. And how much debt do you have?

Um, we total 59,951.

>> Okay. And you're obviously the nerd of the family. You owe everything to the parent. >> I love you. You're awesome.

>> Okay. >> I love my husband. He's not like a money

stresser or >> Why don't the two of you talk about it and pray about it and say, "All right, how long do I need to get the majority

or or enough of my heart healed that I can focus?" Okay? Because we do know this about grief. When you're addressing it, if you address it properly, and you may need to sit down and talk to someone about it, may need to get a good therapist involved, >> but um but if you're addressing it properly, uh the the pain never leaves completely,

but it does get further and further and further in the rearview mirror.

And it's not that we're going to forget Rocko. That's not the point. Um or that his death's not going to be unimportant at some point. That's not what I'm saying. Uh but I am saying right now it's taking up a lot of your head space.

A year from now it will be less. 5 years from now it will be less. Would you agree with that?

>> I hope so. >> Yeah. You don't want to be sitting in exactly the same place of pain and he wouldn't want you to.

So we just say, you know, we acknowledge that it's hurting. We sit down, get some help with that, and we walk through it.

And so, um, you know, you two talk about it and I I don't really care. But I would highly recommend a that you stay

on a system where you're not spending more. You're not going further in.

>> That's a big deal. The two of you agree to that. But we're not going to work six jobs. We're not going to, you know, we'll go out to eat.

We're going to take some time off here. We're not going to throw money onto that snowball like it's like our life depends on it. We're not doing any of that right now. Um, and we're going to give ourselves a period of time.

And so, uh, I'll give you just a guess, but it's not a professional guess because Dr. John Deloney is not here, okay? Um, I'm just dad, okay?

just the old man. So, it feels like that

you need uh 60 to 90 days.

And I think at the end of that time, if you're working on this, you're going to have a lot clearer head. That's my

guess. But this happened right before the wedding and then you had the wedding. So you had these two huge events all within a couple of minutes of

each other and now we're going into Christmas and Thanksgiving and so it's like boom boom boom boom boom. Agreed.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So you get the other side of the first of the year and let things calm down a little bit and get a little bit more boring because boring has not been your life lately. And then then that

that's kind of when that's kind of when some of this will flush out, I think.

But that's just an old guy talking, not a professional.

Does that feel right to you?

>> I think so. I definitely like it's I

like I want to be intense about paying off our debt still and then when I go to do it, I just don't want >> Yeah. This it's not it's not the most important thing to you right now. And that makes sense. >> Yeah. this this saps some of your strength. >> Takes some of your energy away.

>> And that that just means you're a good person. It means you're a good sister.

So I I just I think I think you and your husband pray about this. I think I would sit down. Have you Are you guys in a good church?

>> Um Yeah. >> Not really. Like we Yeah. No, not here.

>> No. Okay. >> We've kind of I've started looking around. >> Yeah. I think I'd be looking around and um you know, find a good therapist. find a good pastor to sit down and unpack some of this with and put it on the calendar that the 1st of March we're go time or something like that. I don't care if you decide it's the 1st of April, but it doesn't need to be 2028,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I I think that'll give you some peace. You're a very analytical, detailed person and this drifting is not

something that gives you peace. You need you it's going to give you more peace to say, "All right, I'm going to work on this hard this this grief thing and I'm going to honor Rocco uh very intensely for this period of time and then I'm coming out of the fog on this date."

And if you give yourself that as a set desired future, a set goal, I think it's going to help you because of the way your brain works. Am I reading you right? >> I think so. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

You're you're a good sister and you're a good husband or you're a good wife and your husband is lucky. So, you're you're going to be great. Okay. Yeah. And Yeah.

Take take a minute. Take a minute and breathe. You should. If you didn't, you'd be weird. >> Yeah. Right.

>> I mean, that'd be weird, wouldn't it? I mean, just to act like this didn't happen, that that's going to blow up.

And And it did. And it did happen right before your wedding. I mean, come on.

Right.

>> Yeah. It was >> I mean, this is like Yeah. This is hard.

This is bad medicine right here. So, yeah. Sit down and talk to somebody, kiddo. Set a date prayerfully with your husband. I think you're going to be great. She's going to be great. She's going to be okay. That puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 236. We’re $100K in Debt and Living in a Camper | February 4, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `ZTooddQV_14` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTooddQV_14) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:46:34 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. the

phone number to jump in today.88255225LE8 888255225LE8

825-55225 alongside the uh really really sharply dressed uh

George Kim >> I always like to see what adjective you're going to use on me today. >> You know I got distracted from the adjective was looking at that shet.

That's a well-appointed shet. George, as always, I'm Ken Coleman. We're here together for you. So >> looking good is half the battle, Ken. >> It really is. So you're prepared as well. All right, let's go to Travis in Huntsville, Alabama. and Travis, how can we help today?

>> Hey, um I am in $100,000 of debt and I'm

22. Um I have two kids, but I make about

70,000 a year.

>> Okay, tell us more. What kind of debt is 100,000? Break it down for us. Uh, well,

the first one was my uh I guess my

20-year-old idiot purchase, which was uh at at the time when I first got it was about a $75,000 truck from a a loan

rolled over. Now it's about at 60,000. I

pay $1,200 a month on it. Um, my second

one is a $23,000 camper. Started at

30,000.

pay that five about 500 a month on it.

And then the last one is a car for my

wife, which I currently owe about 16,000 on. >> Okay. And what is your goal today?

What's the what's the heart of the question? >> Well, I guess so we me and my wife have been talking a lot about getting rid of the truck. Um because the reason we have the camper and the truck to begin with is because we were traveling on the road. Um, I did just I worked for a

renovation company doing renovating government buildings. Made a lot of money the first year. Contracts died out, you know, just slowed down. Had to

find another job back home where we had a little more stability, but we still live in the camper and then the truck is

the way to move the camper around. So, >> Got it. So, you're living in the camper full-time. You're not renting. You don't have a home. Okay. How? >> No, we're not renting. So we and we actually don't pay for rent at the campground uh because we volunteer for state parks. >> Cool. So that kind of covers the fee.

They they kind of make it a wash there. >> And I'm guessing you don't move around much anymore. You're not moving this camper much? >> No, not very far. Just around like you

know like an hour from Hudville. Right now we're an hour so we're kind of far but we can move back in a couple months.

>> Okay. And your your wife is at home with the kids? >> Yeah. not working outside the home.

Okay. So, 70K is what we're making.

We've got 100K in debt. Have you looked into what the truck is currently worth?

What the camper is currently worth if you sold it privately?

>> Uh, yes, sir. So, the private value on

the Kelly Blue Book website is 36. Um,

so it's it's just I'm really underwater on >> So, 24 underwater on the truck. And then what about the camper?

>> Uh, the camper I don't know how much they depreciate. Honestly, I haven't looked into it. >> They'd appreciate a whole lot. That's for sure. >> You think it's worth 10 or 15? 20.

>> I might be able to get 10 out of it and that would leave me a 13.

>> Yep. So, total doing the math, you are

$37,000 underwater on these vehicles.

Meaning, you cannot get rid of these until you come up with the difference somehow to clear the title.

>> Yes, sir. >> There's two ways you can do that. >> I have a question. As I'm listening here to George talk with you, have you run the numbers on on on the most affordable rent? Uh because you're already living in a trailer. So you you make 70,000.

It's not chump change. What would rent cost you?

>> Um I there's some places where I think

we could get it for a,000.

Um but some of those places with kids I

just wouldn't feel safe putting them in.

And I know my wife would. >> Okay. But you went to the worst common denominator. So, so what I'm asking you is I would never recommend you put your family in a place where your kids are unsafe. So, let's ask reassent

look like in a place where you don't feel like your kids are under threat.

>> Um, I would say maybe maybe somewhere between 14 to,600.

>> Okay. Have you run a budget on what that could you you know, what would that do to your budget with your take-home?

>> Um, yeah. Um it would you know I get

5,000 a month. So that minus the car

payment would be you know say we had 1,500 rent two I get three three G grand

back uh a month not including expenses

but >> and the reason I'm walking through this with you Travis George I mean I wanted George to hear that ratio. Uh but the reality is is like you've got to get rid of this trailer. >> You're essentially paying $1,700 right now for rent. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> The trailer, truck and camper are >> sinking. The camper's losing value. So that's why I want you.

And George, is that too aggressive? I'd like to for him to to let's find a place to live and get renting and let's get rid of >> because if you sell the camper, you lose your housing. And so we've got to solve for that problem.

>> The issue is we need that money either through savings, through future income, or through a loan from your local credit union. Is [snorts] your credit good enough to get a loan from a credit union right now? >> Um, not really. Um, like I said, when we

were out of contracts, I was out of work for about six months in Seattle. And so I went, it was just a couple months of trying to get unemployment just to stay above water and knocking doors. Um, but

>> do you have anything in savings right now >> or anything you could sell? >> Um, anything I could sell? I don't really have anything I could sell per se. We have a camper, so every we kind of live minimalistic as much as possible. Um,

don't really have anything in the camper. I mean, besides Hobby Lobby.

>> Okay. >> Artwork. >> And nothing in your savings account. Correct. >> Um, I have a little bit. I'm working on baby step one. I believe it's getting $1,000, >> correct? >> In in the bank account. So, we have

maybe 300. And then I have a couple Roth

two Roth IRA and 401k which I'm not going to touch. >> Good. >> Okay. Well, you're you're speaking the right language here. We got to get the,000 bucks first. Then we need to solve for this truck cuz that'll free you of 1,200 bucks a month. And so even

if you go take out a $24,000 loan, it's better than what you got right now.

>> Yeah. >> At 60k. And so that's your next goal once you get the thousand bucks. And that's going to take some time. This is not going to be like, hey, we can just go do all of this tomorrow. But you're going to need to explore all of your options and try to get top dollar for these so that you can get out of this faster. And that might mean you're working two more jobs.

>> Yeah. >> That's not going to be fun for the next year or two to clean this up. But that's the only solution I'm seeing here to get you out of this without, you know, dangerous shortcuts. >> Yeah. I I'm just going to reemphasize, Travis, the first step here is you've got to find a place to live so we can sell the camper.

>> Yeah. Do you have any family nearby?

>> Um, not. We have some church family, but

we we wouldn't be able to stay with them long term. Um, all my other family is

same same deal. Not really not really fit to stay there. Um, >> one one factor I didn't mention that I've been thinking about is my old boss, he lives here in Alabama. he lives fairly close and he has offered to anytime I need to move the [music] camper to he would let me use his truck

for that. Um the one thing I I would worry about he's very dependable and reliable but you never know what's going to happen. He could move it could be broken down. [music] Um, but I was thinking if we could take care of the camper um we could still be able to kind

of live um rent [music] rentree

essentially if we have >> I think this is just we're still in short-term thinking now. We got to think about the bigger picture and getting out of this life we created. Man,

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All right, Marie is up next in New York City. Marie, how can we help today?

So, I have a question in regards to parent plus loans and if I should pause on paying them because my children are still in school. They are technically

not due yet, but I've been paying the amount that they said I would owe. Um,

but I do have credit card debt. So, I'm wondering, do I put a pause on paying the parent plus loans because they're not technically due yet, and take that money I was paying to that and put that

towards my credit card debt to get my credit card debt to go down faster?

>> Is that the only debt you have as credit card? I have um a small car loan uh that I pay

$240 a month towards and I probably owe

about uh $3,800 left on the car and I

have $7,200 in credit card debt, the

parent plus loans, and I have a mortgage of 100 that has about $150,000 left on

it. >> Okay, great. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

>> Yes, I have $1,000 saved.

>> Okay, great. Good. And what was the total amount for the parent plus loans?

>> Uh 55,000.

>> Okay. And I'm assuming that's broken out across some different loans or is it all one giant loan?

>> No, it's uh two children, three different loans.

>> Okay. >> Or four different loans maybe. >> Great. So this would st still fall into your debt snowball regardless if they're asking for payments or not. Cuz here's the truth. The interest is still acrewing. And so the more we kick this cane down the road, the more that balance is going to balloon. You're going to wake up to have a $65,000 loan.

>> And so this would just fall right into your debt snowball. So list out your debt smallest to largest. Is the credit cards is that multiple cards to make up the 72?

>> There's two cards. Yes.

>> Okay. So like a few grand each?

>> Uh yeah, there's two cards. One has uh 4700 and the rest is on the other one.

>> Okay. So this becomes pretty simple.

We're going to knock out that first credit card, then the car payment, then the second credit card, and then start attacking these parent plus loans,

>> okay? But still keep making those >> make the minimum payments that that they offer. Is there a minimum payment that you can pay?

>> So, it's just not required. >> They're paying correct. Yeah. Like they originally had said, oh, if you started

paying today, you should pay this amount. You should pay 305 a month. So,

that's what I've been paying.

>> Good. I would continue down that path and just keep doing minimums on all of your debts except the smallest one and attack it cuz I'm I'm looking at all of these debts. Are you close to like 70

grand in debt right now?

>> With without the >> without the mortgage?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what do you guys make a year? What's your household income?

>> Um, I make uh I have two jobs. I make 110 between both of them.

>> Fantastic. Well, there's some good news.

So, we can clean this up pretty fast. I mean, if you can throw, let's say, 3540 grand a year of your net income towards this, you're done in two years.

>> That would be amazing.

>> That's it. And so, I think part of this, K, it's hard to just like peel back and look at the big picture versus just staring at all the variables and debts in front of you. >> Well, let's talk about the big picture because you just hit her with that 35 to 40,000 a year. And it's almost like Marie, we could hear that you were stunned by that.

You you you laughed and said that would be nice. So, let's talk about while we got George with us here on the budget. He's the budget guru. Is that believable to you?

>> It's a little unbelievable

because I and I feel that I I work really hard. I

have two jobs. So, and I I listened to you guys and what you say about and I've been doing the debt snowball. So, I just got rid of one credit card last week.

So, that was a little celebration. Yay.

But the So, my mortgage I only owe $150,

but my mortgage takes like $2,200 a month.

>> Okay. That's why I wanted to lean in because, you know, George is taking a shot there. But if let's say George, we use your number of 35. That's just about 3,000. a little bit less than 3,000 a month net. So realistically, Maria,

Maria, if you are very disciplined to

the best of your knowledge right now, what do you think you could put away every month with the two jobs minimums

plus the extra? Yeah. >> What could you throw at all this debt?

I pro I usually I mean and I hear you

and and I think you are probably right,

but it almost sounds impossible, you know, when you're sitting on this side because I do pay, you know, $1,000 to

the credit card and I do work extra or

overtime at the first step. >> Well, that's why that's why I'm pushing in a little bit. I I wanted to see if it is doable. So, could you What is the most money you could commit? We're we're not holding you to this. This is an exercise while we have you. What do you think is the most I I'm talking like extreme budgeting, saving, cutting expenses everywhere. To George's question, after you pay the minimums and your four walls, what do you think you could put on debt every month? What number?

>> I probably could put $1,000 a month

>> on top of your minimums is what you're saying. >> Yes. >> Okay, great. Because I'm doing the math here. 27.50 gets you out of debt in 24 months. If you're doing all the minimums plus the extra, that should add up to 27.50. Now, two two years, that was just I'm just throwing something out there.

On average, we find that people who follow our plan to a tea, we're talking baby steps, budgeting, using every dollar, making the sacrifices, 18 to 24 months is the average. And based on the numbers you threw at me with your $110,000 income, seven, you know, 66 grand in debt, you are right there.

That's going to be 18 to 24 months of sacrifice. And at first you're going to feel like you're not making progress, but I'm telling you, month after month, in 6 months, you're going to have a few debts knocked out. Think about that. You free up the payments. Now we're throwing at the next debt. And so the snowball starts to roll and by the end you are just you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. >> Yeah, I love it. How about we just That was a great locker room speech, George.

Even though you never played sports. >> I don't think I've been in a locker room other than me getting bullied in one.

But what do [laughter] >> So what if we give her Breaking Free from Broke? Because I think that's a mindset book in her situation. You like that? That's your book. >> Yeah. That'll get you fired up about your debt. Give you the path out in in my voice. So there's a lot of jokes in there cuz you got to have fun along the way, Marie. And what you've created right now is not fun. Taking on the parent plus loans, which is a noble thing to do. You want to help your kids.

But here's the here's the kicker. That debt is in your name. The kids don't legally ever have to pay a dime. and the interest rates are higher and so these are not going away even if it's you know the payment is deferred the interest is still acrewing and it is brutal so I want to do a followup on behalf of our larger audience okay because for the [clears throat] minutia sometimes I want to make sure people get the principle so in Marie's situation um you told her to

continue making what the minimum payments would be even though that they're not asking for that money right now um why did you give why would we give that advice as opposed to saying do the snowball on everything else but that. Why that advice, George?

>> Well, if you're not making any payments at all and the interest is acrewing, you've got a double whammy situation.

That's right. Because you are not moving the needle at all with the principal.

And so, the only thing moving the needle is interest adding to your balance. And we hear those stories cuz people, they weren't taught how interest works, >> especially when you're not making a payment. And so, if you go punch the numbers into an interest calculator, you will find that balance will balloon. And who knows how long they'll be in school.

what if they're in school for another 6 years, >> right? >> And so, you've got to just start creating the habit of knocking out this debt systematically. And the debt snowball method is the way to do it.

>> Yeah, I thought it was I thought it was interesting to hear her brain and her reaction was really fun to hear that.

Wow, that would be nice. When we pressed in right now, she's thinking $1,000 a month. I got a hunch. Uh, and Marie's still on the line. I think she could get more than $1,000 out of that budget.

What do you think based on your experience? >> Yeah. I mean, if you take 110 grand minus your your taxes and you're going to pause all investing, so you're just going to, you know, pay your healthcare if that's through your job and all that, but whatever comes home, that's your number now that we've got to figure out. You got 2,200 in your mortgage. Okay.

Whatever's left, how little can we live on to throw as much as we can at the debt? >> Right. So, four walls plus insurance.

Anything else that can go? Everything else is a luxury at this point. >> That's right. And kudos.

Maria is working two jobs, folks. I mean, so this is superwoman here. In this case, you're looking to sell everything you can possibly sell. What if you can sell five, $7,000, maybe as much as 8 to $10,000 worth of stuff.

That again reduces that timeline. So again, we we have a lot of new people joining us all the time and trying to understand the practicality of these steps. Listen, we didn't say it was easy.

is hard. But boy oh boy, you heard how she reacted when George said, "I think I can get out in 24 months." That's exciting stuff. The quicker you get out, the quicker you move on in your life with the dreams that you want to achieve.

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All right, Charlotte, North Carolina is where we go next. John's got some type of a family issue here we need to talk about. John, what's going on?

Hey guys, uh thanks for having me on the show. Um so my wife's brother and sister

um not as well off financially as us and

we're coming up in in our own financial journey to a point where we may be able to help them. Um but we're having an

issue when we talk about it because and uh please I don't want to paint them in a bad light. I love them. They're great people. Um but in a lot of aspects of their lives they are very much um we can't right now because people um you

wouldn't understand because we've got three kids you don't that kind of thing.

Um what is something that we could do when we get to the point uh that we can that we could help these these people that we're not crossing a boundary but we're also not enabling bad financial decisions. >> Okay. Well, you answer that question. Is there let me flip this on >> and I'm gonna set you up.

Sorry, I didn't mean to just but you Yeah, you No, you called us. You tell us. No, here's what I want to know. >> You've already laid out George and I know exactly what you're saying.

You're not in any way attacking them. However, here's my question for you. Let's just fast forward into this future that you just mentioned where you're going to have some extra money.

>> Yes, sir. about $38,000 down and we got

about 30 to go. >> No, no, I know. Don't worry about that. We're going to fast forward to your heart of your question. Okay, let's fast forward to this future where you have some margin to where you could help them financially. In what area

would you feel confident telling George and I, I helped them, forget about the number, but I helped them how I could

and I feel like this help will actually make a difference.

Tell me the answer to that question. What area where you could help would actually make a difference and they wouldn't squander it and they wouldn't just, you know, motor through it? Where where could you help them where it would make a difference?

>> The biggest thing that we've discussed that I think could possibly work is if we were able to pay for a year of child care for their kids so that mom could go to work and help them financially cuz dad is kind of limited in his position with what he could make.

>> Okay. If you were to do that, a would

she go get a job? Yes or no?

>> I I couldn't tell you. I I think so.

>> And what if she doesn't?

>> Is the Is it conditional where you go, hey, you got to show proof of >> Well, I don't like I don't like your answer, John. You realize what I'm doing here? I'm walking you through. Is this a good ROI? And your answer to that was, I

don't know if she'd actually do it.

>> That's a bad sign. True or false?

>> True. >> You see, so this is how I would come about this. My heart says I want to

help, but I need to put real plans, real

specifics together. And I just kind of walked you through this. And the first thing you said that you would do to help, there was no certainty at all that

it would actually help. Because if you pay for child care, but she doesn't go get a job and thus get extra money and then we didn't even ask you. Even if she made the extra money, do you think that she would put it towards removing debt?

What's the answer to that?

>> I think so. They've been watching our financial journey. Um so hopefully we've been just hoping that they would see what we're doing and >> have they asked questions? Have they even said they want help or is it just more Well, that's for you guys, but we that's not a thing that we're going to do.

>> Yeah, I think that's true, George, because we've offered them financial peace because we have it. We're actually waiting to start it because we we want them to go through it and they've had it and haven't done it and and we're getting frustrated because it's it's like I I want to I want to help you. Let me help you. >> Right.

But John, you just said a moment ago until George reframed that, you said you thought that they would use that income of hers to help themselves.

now you're questioning that. So you see, this is the exercise. And I'm glad you called us because we can be objective. We're we're not related to them.

>> It sounds like to me that this is a bad investment.

>> Okay, >> here's the underlying fear. You don't help them move forward. They just get comfortable for a while while you get super resentful because you're helping them and you're really putting putting yourself out there paying for child care for a whole year all for them to not make any progress. Well, now the relationship's gone. You you've lost all respect for them. >> Mhm.

>> And so until they are at a breaking point, until they have enough pain in their life that they're going, I guess we should put on that financial peace thing. We are running out of options here. >> Yeah. >> I don't know that they're ready for it yet. >> I agree. That reminds me, George, of the old phrase, when the student is ready, the teacher appears. And this is tough with family. So, George, I don't know where you're at. I'm going to say, John, I would not help until they say that a

they want help and because they acknowledge they need help. And I think those are your two boundaries. And I and again, I would run through a similar exercise like I just walked you through.

And my friend, you answered your own question. Um, and I know it's a tough situation. I hate that. But you guys got your own financial journey. You got 38,000 to pay off. Let's go walk the

baby steps. Continue to do what you've been doing. Let's get out of that situation. Make your life better and let the chips fall where they fall with other people. Let's go to Jonathan next who is in Fairfax, Virginia. Jonathan, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, longtime listener, first- time caller. My dad actually, he's really a big fan of the show. Um, and right now I'm just got a little uh question about how to find housing at my current stage of life. I just graduated college about two years ago. Uh, and I've been working as an RN for about a year and a half.

I'm about to get a raise and I'm still looking around trying to find good housing uh, without breaking the bank and just like being able to save continuously after that and it just seems like a really big struggle for me right now. >> Give us some real numbers. I know the Northern Virginia area. If you're in Fairfax area, I know that area. That's extremely expensive place to live. Give

us the numbers uh for George and I. What you're looking at for a rent.

>> So, honestly, I'd take I'd take really anything. The I'm really trying to reduce my commute as well, though. And um in the Fairfax Fair, they're Oak specific area, which is where my hospital is. It's around 1,500 at base

price as far as I've seen. and I've asked a few realtors, but it comes to about there. >> What have you been paying in this two years since you've been out of school?

>> I've I've actually just been staying at home. Uh my dad's very gracious. He's allowed me to stay at home for $200 a month. Um additionally, a few other utilities in there, but >> Okay. What's your income now? And you also told us that you're about ready to get a raise. So, give us those two numbers where you are now and then what your new raise will look like. Right now I believe it's 90 a year and further

than that in about a month and a half I think it goes up to probably 93 94.

>> Do you have any Do you have any debt payments? >> I do not. No. >> And you're worried about $1,500 a month?

>> Just a little bit. But >> well compared to 200. Sure. But that's a false reality. >> Yeah. George is in the middle of this stuff. George, what do you think about 1,500 a month for >> I mean, if you're if you're taking home about six grand a month, 1,500 bucks is right on the mark. We tell people 25% of your after tax income is what you want to stay in for housing, whether it's rent or a mortgage.

>> Okay. >> And here's the other thing. That's for you living alone, right? >> Yeah. Here we go. Tell him, George.

>> Can I tell you, I don't want to pull out, you know, like I'm a pioneer woman or something, but I had roommates all the way up until I was married because I couldn't afford an apartment on my own.

But you can. But if we've already established you can afford it, but to George's point, if if it gives you stomach problems, fine. For a twobedroom

and now your rent's a,000 bucks, you'd feel a little better, wouldn't you?

>> And you're splitting utilities as well.

>> I'd definitely love you if I could find someone. But you're right. You're >> I mean, Facebook groups all over for roommate finders and apps and ask around to your friends. I mean, you got young guys you work with probably. And so that's that's you got to put a little effort. You know where I'm at, George on this. >> What's that? >> You've proven that he's fine financially. He's got a great upward path. He's got no debt. You know what?

This is quality of life.

>> Jonathan, I think you got to focus on how much life is going to be better not commuting way out into Fairfax. I know

what that traffic is like, >> but it's scary to fly the coupe, Ken.

He's comfy. >> But once you start thinking about not driving in the seventh level of hell every day, there's a really nice tradeoff. Life is about trade-offs, George. That's right.

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All right, let's go to Kathy who's joining us in Minneapolis. Kathy, how can we help?

>> Hi, my husband refinanced our car and

now we have a 25% APR and wondering what

we should do. >> O oh boy, what caused this refinance?

>> Uh so we had >> What was the original APR >> experience? >> Uh the original was 14

and um he was trying to get money to pay

some things and decided to take out 3,000 on top of the car loan and that's

what happened. >> Yikes. Why would he do that inside of the car loan?

There's so many ways to get 3,000 even though it's a terrible idea to go into debt for any of it. But why refinance the car loan to get three grand out?

>> I think because it was the fast Well, so

he had originally applied for a personal loan, but his credit wasn't very good and so [clears throat] uh they told him

that he could do it through the car loan as like a secured I don't know.

>> Yeah, it's a secured debt. >> He didn't involve me in the car. They go, "If this guy can't pay, we get a car out of it, so we're willing to do it." Oh, and by the way, his credit shot, so the APR is 25%. Because he's a risky borrower.

>> Mhm. >> So, I want to dig here because you you laid it out for us very clearly. And you said, "What do we do? Is is we involved here or is it just you?" Because it sounds like he made a really desperate move.

>> Yes, he did. And it is we involved. Um

>> Okay. >> But yeah, he I wasn't included in that decision. So, >> yeah. But he's now going, "Okay, uh, I I

screwed up and I need some advice."

>> Mhm. >> Okay. All right. Any other debt? Because that that helps us with this with this answer. >> Yeah, we have a credit card debt, student loan debt, personal loan.

>> What's the total of all the debts?

>> Um, it's about Oh gosh. like

>> uh just under let's see like 70,000.

>> Okay. What do you guys make a year as a household?

>> Uh about 70,000.

>> Wow. Are you guys both working full-time?

>> No, I'm a stay-at-home mom.

>> Okay. So, he's he's pulling in 70.

>> Yeah. Uh and 13 and one.

>> Oh. >> For the ages. >> You just got restarted again.

>> Yep. >> All right. So, I have to ask because I think this is this is this kind of level of intensity. Are are there any type of skills, work experience that you have that would allow you to do some work from home? I know the one-year-old is that's a full-time job. Don't want to minimize that in any way. However,

you got 24 hours in a day just like everybody else. Is that even possible?

And what do you think you could do to make some money?

>> Um, yes. So, it is possible. I [clears throat] actually just finished school. So, um I'm going to be pursuing

something hopefully from home. I also homeschool, so there's that as well.

But, um I >> Is that going to be possible if you're working full-time out, you know, outside of >> Probably not full-time?

>> I'm I'm hoping to find something part-time from home.

>> What's your degree in? And what will the job be that you're hoping for?

>> Um holistic wellness and like um I'm

also certified in personal training. So

something with personal training and health and wellness. >> So like a your private coaching for nutrition, wellness. Okay. All of that.

And you that's a little more flexible.

You can kind of do that on your on your own schedule. Well, I will point out you have to go get clients. That's a whole different ballgame when you're doing it for yourself. >> So yeah, >> I'm going to just point that out that that is difficult. Not saying you can't do it, but I would give yourself some realistic goals. And if in a month or two or three months we're not signing up any clients, not getting anybody interested, you need to go work for somebody else.

>> And that's just a reality right now. Um,

you know, if you guys got to bring in more income. Do you have any savings at all?

>> No. >> What's left on the car balance after this refinance? >> Um, so he he just refinanced it, so it's

sitting around I think 17 18,000.

>> Okay. What is the vehicle worth? private party value >> uh 7,200.

>> Okay, so we're 10 grand underwater. So there's our number. If we want to get out from under this 25% APR, which is going to cause the balance to balloon if we're not attacking it, then we need to get out from under it >> by creating this 10 grand, either by saving future income or taking out a loan from a credit union, which I'm guessing is not an option cuz he's tried that and his credit is shot. Is your credit shot as well?

>> Are you tied to this? >> No. >> Okay. No, I'm not.

I'm I was on the original loan, but when he refinanced, I was taken off, I guess. >> Okay. You would I would see. Now, it's going to be tough because you don't have income.

And so, they I don't know if they'll look at the whole picture if you're the one taking out the loan in your name. Uh, you know, they're not going to allow him to be a co-signer, I don't think. But, if you can go to your local credit union and get a loan for the difference, that at least gets you out from under this.

>> Uh, no. >> This is your one car? Yep.

>> Okay. Well, the other option is you attack it with a vengeance. I mean, having an $18,000 worth of vehicles making 70 is not the problem. The problem is the behavior that got us here adding to the pile, going back into debt, crazy interest rates, a lot of desperation.

And it sounds like a lot of this was done without any teamwork. It was just kind of him on his own out of desperation. And you were an unwilling accomplice, or did you know about all this? >> Yep.

No, I didn't know until after it was done.

All right. So, what does he do for a living?

>> Um, he drives garbage trucks.

>> Is he handy?

>> Yeah. >> I'm telling you right now, he is he's

the one now. You've already said what you were going to do. And so, if he were on the phone be going, "Hey, buddy, you did this. You ought to feel a massive burden." I'm sure he does. But outside of driving that garbage truck, if he's handy, he's working in a warehouse. He's doing whatever he can. 25 an hour, whatever he can do, >> he can hold people in the neighborhood.

I tell you what, the one-year-old needs you. >> And I say this not knocking him, but saying this as a father of three, >> for the next year, the one-year-old doesn't really need him that much. He needs to be working. And the truth is is he doesn't even work for a year.

It's like I would be circling $18,000 if I were your husband. And I would be going, "How quickly can I make $18,000 outside of my $70,000 job?" George, that that would be my intensity. You agree, disagree on that? I mean, does that changes their life initially?

Gets us out from underneath that massively bad loan that's just putting them in quicksand. >> Yeah. When you're when your debt is the same as your income, I see there's a big problem here. Now, if your debt was 140 grand and you got 70, we could solve this within 18 to 24 months.

And so what that tells me is we need to get aggressive getting this income up.

That might be you getting a full-time job. And we put the kids in school, daycare, whatever we need to do right now to solve this crisis. And that's what it is. It's a crisis. >> That's right. But Kathy, you guys can get out of this. But it's it's both of you. It's two points you want you to walk away with on this call.

>> Both of you have to work more and make more. And both of you have got to be

super aligned on a budget that allows for no extra spending on anything other than just the four walls. You got it?

>> Got it. >> You up for it?

>> Yep. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Game on. >> Cuz this is doable. George, what's your calculation if they were to do that? And I know you don't know >> if they get the Yeah. I'm saying two and

a half to three years. If they stay status quo and try to do it with their current income, I think this would take four to five years. >> Yeah. >> And the balances would just grow with this level of in I mean the credit cards are high interest, the car is high interest, and who knows about the personal loan and student loans, but there's there's debt surrounding us right now. And so, we've got to get on that debt snowball. We've got to get the spending down. We're going to make some deep sacrifices right now.

>> In your bestselling book, Breaking Free from Broke, you write a lot about traps.

Of course, you coach. you sit here and co-host this show all the time. I think this is important. What is happening?

What is the emotional trap

that causes a guy like this to take such

a crazy desperate loan for only $3,000?

What is happening? What do you know?

>> Well, it starts with I can afford the payment on this one thing and well the student loans that's an investment in my future and well the personal loan will knock that out fast. And so it's a lot of good intentions and they're a little bit delusional and stareyed about the fact they can carry this. And then a spouse wants to stay home and they go, "Well, yeah, that's a very noble goal.

You got to stay home. We'll figure it out." And then desperation leads to refinancing the car loan. And so it's not one thing. It is death by a thousand cuts that got us there and it's death by a thousand cuts that's going to get us out.

And it's much easier to go into debt than it is to get out. That's the hard truth. The dealership will always be happy to refinance at 25% [music] APR. And so you've going to you're going to have to hustle.

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. [music] Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman.

Excited to have you with us. The phone number to jump in today 888255225.

Georgia, take lead on your money questions. I'll take lead on your

winning at work. If you're feeling stuck, a lack of balance in your life,

feeling burned out, that's going to affect all your money stuff, too. So, uh, we can combine any of those calls.

We'd love to hear from you. Let's start it off with Sabrina, who joins us in

Atlanta, Georgia. Sabrina, how can we help? >> Hi, thank you for taking my call. So,

I'm a single mom. Um, I had a retirement

uh and a home and um got scammed out of

my retirement from my ex. He said he'd be in I could make more money on investments and stocks that he was able to do that and I pulled out 85k

which of course I had to pay a penalty.

I'm 54 years old currently

and um so now I'm basically starting

from scratch. I have um sold my home so

I have some money saved and I'm just

trying to figure out where I need to go from here. I do have um a special special needs child. Um and I just want

to make the right decisions going forward and really, you know, building for my retirement because I am, you know, 54. >> How much do you have saved off of the sale of the home? >> So, um I had to pay a lot of debt back

>> um because my ex was a squatter for a year and a half in the home.

Um, so 35,000 in a CD. So I dump that in

a CD that matures in March.

Um, my high yield, I put 10,000 in a

high yield savings account.

And then in another savings, it's $1,200.

And then I have some debt.

>> How much debt do you have left?

>> So 6,500 in credit card. Uh, my car

13,000. Uh, it's worth 10,000. I got it during the pandemic, so it's a little upside down.

Um, >> what's before we go forward, what's the car payment on that?

>> Uh, 4.86 a month.

>> Yes. >> Let's stop right there. >> And and it's and it's 96,000 miles. And

I've already in the last year dumped

$8,500 in repairs.

>> Yeah. But I mean, that's it's still that's a car that, you know, I'm just I'm going to jump in right there, George, because of the money she's got in savings. Uh, if we could pay that off, that saves you $486 a month

immediately. You would feel that? Yes or no?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Keep going on the debts, but I just wanted to jump in like that's a that is lowhanging fruit because you've got cash today to pay that off. George, you don't have any problem with that, do you? I mean, the SE maturing in March, so today you can knock out the credit cards with your high yield savings.

>> Okay. >> And then as soon as that matures, I would use 13 grand of it and knock out the car. What else do you have?

>> Um, I have an attorney's bill for 10K.

>> Okay. Anything else?

>> Um, oh, I have a term life insurance.

That's uh I only pay 360 a year. It ends

in 2031 and it's for $200,000. So, I didn't even

know if I should even like stop that.

But, >> do you have any kids? You said you're a single mom. >> I'm a single mom, special needs child, teenager. >> Yeah, you're going to need that money if something were to happen to you. I mean, even though it's 200k, that's still money that can be used to help take care of your child. And eventually, >> you're probably going to need a special needs trust.

Well, that's part of the 10K.

>> Okay. >> 5K uh for the attorney is for the court

case that I had or have currently. And

the other um 5K was to hire um a wills

and trust attorney to set a trust and

will >> because I need to protect my son. And I I just that's a priority for me right now. >> It should be. I love that. You've got term life insurance. You've got a will and a trust. You're doing some good things here. And the good news is, you have any other debt outside of that? I heard the three. No. Okay.

>> So, you've got 30K in debt and you've

got $45,000 essentially liquid.

>> Yes. >> Have you been debtree in your adult life?

>> Before my ex? Yes.

>> So, why don't we call this a new slate and say this is post ex Sabrina. She's

starting a new chapter. She's got a lot of life ahead of her. We're going to go into this thing completely debtree with $15,000 in the bank. You hear me?

>> Okay. Yes. >> Now that we have a foundation, now we can begin investing for the future and rebuilding what we've lost. How sure are you that that money is gone. Did he

spend it? What did he do with this money?

Um, well, I can't get that answer

because I tried and as soon as I stood

up to get an answer, it became from, oh,

I went to stock. Oh, no, I went into a real estate investments. Now he's telling the attorneys that um it that I

agreed on putting it in a business and that business went defunct.

>> Okay. But I'm dumping money to get discovery and it's not happening and I don't want to dump any more money on attorneys when I know I lost >> and this guy's a piece of work. Then I would move on and just start investing with your current income which how much are you making a year?

>> So I had to take up a W2 to stabilize in

the last two years of this uh court cases. So I make 50k gross.

>> Okay. with the W2. And then I have my own business that brings in 6 75K in

gross, but I only pull about 20 to 30.

>> Okay. So, we'll say you make 80 grand a year. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you will be in baby step four if you follow what we told you. Pay off the debt, park the 15K, call that your emergency fund. Maybe you want to add a little bit to it to get to 3 to 6 months of expenses, maybe 6 months since you're a single mom with a special needs kid.

But 15% that's 12 grand a year you would be investing. So we're going to do a,000 bucks a month from 54 and likely the

truth is you're going to have to work longer than you wanted to, right?

>> Mhm. >> To maybe let's say 68 or 70.

>> Is that fair? >> Okay. >> And you're starting with zero in retirement, correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. you could have over half a million dollars from 54 to 70 investing grand

into, you know, mutual funds inside of retirement accounts.

>> Okay. >> I'd love to know more about the business. You you said you're grossing 75, you're only taking out 20 to 30.

Does that mean that you're stocking away what we would call retained earnings or that's all you have to be able to take out as a net?

Um, well, I I'm a little funny on those

numbers, just just so you know, because I'm new in the business. This is like my third year in the business. >> Okay. >> Um, so I do uh I I do like owner draws

that are not consistent.

>> Okay. So, >> is is the business fairly healthy though? What I'm saying is, is it is it mostly profit for you or is it running really tight?

It's mostly profit for me because I don't have overhead. >> What? Why? What's the business? Tell me in 5 seconds what the business is.

>> Professional or home organizer. I help people declutter and organiz. >> Isn't that fascinating? You're the professional organizer and you don't have a grasp on your own numbers. Get yourself a good bookkeeper. I'm not chastising you, but I am saying you have it in you. You want to know those numbers cuz I see a great path. The reason I'm asking these questions is as you grow that business, George, I see tremendous potential for you to grow, >> scale that thing, >> to scale it, pay yourself more after you run through the advice George gave you.

But this is an opportunity to play catch-up. Uh, get a good tax pro. Go to

ramiesolutions.com.

[music]

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[music]

All right, Brandon is up next in Oklahoma City. Brandon, how can we help you today?

>> Hey, first of all, excited to be on.

Thank you guys for having me. >> Sure.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, I'm in an industry. I'm

in the oil and gas industry and uh the job volatility in in what I

do is it's up and down a lot. Uh, I'm on

step two, pay off your debt using the debt snowball method, but I already have three to six months of expenses set back in savings, and I'm ready to start paying down on some of the debt outside of the mortgage. I'm just having trouble taking that leap because I've been through this this cyclical thing of working for a couple years and then the oil and gas market dies and you lose your job for a year and then it comes back and you make good money and then you lose your job.

should move forward in that situation.

Well, I have a question first before George coaches you on what to do. This has happened to you before in the oil and gas industry. This idea of where everything's hot, making great money, and then the market changes, I'm guessing, but this has happened to you more than once or just once.

>> This is my fourth uh run.

>> Okay. So, here's my question for you.

>> What would need to change? What would need to be true? Having weathered this before, if this happens again, what

would need to be true?

>> What would the new reality need to be to where you could weather that storm? You tell us.

Uh, so I I

the new reality would need to be I mean

I think we would need to be paid down to where it was just our mortgage and uh it

would be a lot easier to survive in between those and or move on to something else >> and not get in and out of the industry itself. >> Have you gotten into any of this debt while in this industry?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Can I just poke a little bit and have some fun?

>> Oh, you can ask me anything you want.

>> If you're truly scared of volatility, why would you go into debt?

>> Cuz debt is risk and it robs your income. And so if you know this income might not be there, >> that in your brain there was the risk factor was broken.

>> And you just answered my question by saying the thing that would make it easier is that we only had a house payment. >> So, >> right, this been in that position before. >> Well, what happened?

>> Uh, we decided to buy uh the lot that

was connected to us and we built an office here at our house and and made some investments. We felt like we wanted to to continue to work remote and do

what we were doing at the time. So, based on what I've heard, Brandon, you presented to George and I that you're

afraid of using the cash you have stocked up, >> right, >> to pay off your debt when what you should be afraid of is investing in a loft next to you, investing in other things. Like, do you see where the the fear is misplaced?

>> Yes. >> You're you're choosing which risk you want to keep. And we're telling you, if [laughter] savings is peace, you're right. You were half right. Having the savings there gives you peace. The problem you're forgetting is that debt equals risk. And the key to permanent peace is getting rid of the debt. And I think you're a little comfortable cuz you got 3 to 6 months of expenses saved.

Why work that much harder? Why sacrifice that much more? We would be okay if something happened for a little bit. And I think getting rid of that savings and putting it on the debt will light a fire under you and it will expose the reality of your situation. >> And again, I want to remind you >> like that, >> Brandon, your words. If you emptied out

the savings today and paid off all debt and you get laid off, you said that you could weather it based on three other times. You have experience. So you were speaking from experience to George and I. >> Yes. >> Correct. >> Yes. >> So were you telling us the truth? >> I am.

>> Yeah. I'm telling you the truth. I've fluctuated in and in and out of the real estate market in real estate sales as a broker here between between those those times where I've been in oil and gas. And I've had success in that also.

>> So, here's the key factor. You're not scared of hard work. And so, if something were to happen and you didn't have the savings, you would go work your butt off to cover it and then get back on the plan, get back on the horse.

>> Yeah. D. Yeah, for sure. >> So, let's get tactical. How much do you have in debt, consumer debt? How much do you have in savings?

>> Okay, so total debt's around 200k.

That's with the house. >> Skip the house. Put the mortgage aside.

That's a baby step six item.

>> Yeah. So outside of that, I have 30K on

a business business equity line of credit that's attached to an investment property we own. >> Okay.

>> And then I have 20K in a lot loan. So

it's a piece of land that's attached to our primary residence. All right.

>> And then I have 20K in a home equity line of credit.

>> All right. So, we're looking at 70K

out of the 200. >> Yeah. And we have about Yeah. And we have about 40K in cash.

>> Great. You're telling me you can knock out the lot loan and the HELOC today?

>> Yes. >> Do it.

>> Double dogged dare you. And the other thing is all of this is tied to your property. So, you're putting your house on the block triple right now cuz all of this has collateral, doesn't it? If you don't pay, >> that's how the HELOC works.

>> Yeah. >> And so, for a guy telling me that you're afraid of risk, >> you've taken a whole lot of risk on.

>> Yeah. >> So, knock both of those out. You got 30K left. Use your future income, which How much are you making as a household? Sounds like you guys make good money if you're in the oil field.

>> Yeah. So, I make about 120 when when

it's going. Uh, and my wife, she got laid off last year. She's a medical coder. She got laid off last year uh to

AI, but she's back right now temporary, and she makes about 40k when she's working full-time. >> Great. So, we're both hustling. We'll making 160. We got 30 left to pay down on the line of credit at that point for that business line of credit, which will get knocked out within months.

>> Making 160. >> Yeah. I'm talking less than six months. >> And I've got one >> Yeah. And I've got one more question for you guys. Uh I was going to ask, what

are your thoughts on as I'm doing what I'm doing right now in oil and gas on trying to bust back into the real estate market again so I have something to transition back into when this when the oil and gas goes down again? What are your thoughts on that? >> My quick take is you really can't win at

real estate part-time. And so if you're talking about being a real >> I know that. So then I don't think that's uh smart unless that's your goal long term.

>> So if that's what if that's what you want to do long term, you know, let's go. But let's do it after we take care of what George We got the present. We need to win and let's use what income we have right now to get out of debt and and and walk through baby step three and then be in baby step four and then let's look at transitioning to whatever.

>> That's one year from now. Do you see that? You pay off the two debts today.

You got 30k left. That gets knocked out in 6 months. Another 6 months for your fully funded emergency fund to stock back up. Now we've got a real foundation. That's actual financial peace.

>> I like it. >> At that point, you guys are driving me toward it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I appreciate that. Yeah.

Absolutely. Listen, you you've been afraid of the wrong things.

>> Okay. >> There's no fear walking out the plan George laid out for you. None.

>> No fear. >> Okay. >> There there's some hardship. There's some sacrifice, right?

>> But on the other side of that is to George's point, if you want to go into real estate full-time, then after I got this debt done and I got a three to six emergency, three to six month, and I'd go six months, by the way, and then I'd go all in on real estate because you got to build up a pipeline. But you got some experience. You've dabbled in it sounds like before.

>> I'm hearing sales, not you investing.

I'm hearing you're a realtor. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Yes. So, I'm a real estate broker. We have a property that >> We have a property that we bought.

>> Oh, I know. We invested in >> a commercial piece of property.

>> Well, real estate people famously uh have their risk meter broken and any cash they do have, they want to immediately deploy back into investments cuz like I can make way more money in real estate. But then it leaves us in alert here. So, I think Ken is right.

You've misplaced the fear. Your fear right now is what if I have a $30,000 emergency and I don't have the savings.

The true fear is you have $70,000 in debt that is tied to your home.

That's the thing we should be attacking.

And you'll get there in no time. And you you work hard. You make great money. We just got to retool some things and clean it up. A year from now, you'll be in a very different place.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. And [clears throat] they don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. A and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses, so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than a budgeting app. Now, this is the entire plan that we teach. The baby steps, all of it, [music] right in the middle of this world famous now app. Oh, it's so

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Let's go to Carol in Denver now. Carol, how can we help you today?

>> My question is, what are your thoughts about using AI in tax planning and

preparation?

Oh, that's a hard pass for me. George,

what what got you here? What made you go, "You know what? I'm gonna let Chad GPT handle this one." [laughter]

>> Um uh I was presented with a um document

from the accounting firm requesting that I authorized AI to be used and um some of

it would be overseas and I'm apprehensive about that. Oh, so you're going through an actual tax planning firm.

>> Yes. >> Okay. They're just using they're just sort of speeding up the process by using AI. And we're going to see this everywhere. Almost every organization is going to start using AI to help move things along, you know, reduce the amount of resources they need. And so that doesn't worry me as much. I thought you were just on your own trying to do tax planning with an AI, you know, tool.

>> Yeah. >> No. No. And it's it's the accounting as well because the accounting firm does the tax, you know, taxes and therefore

would they be using an oversee entity to

be able to help do?

>> Well, you just need to ask, you know, this is here's the thing we preach all the time on on any trusted Ramsey trusted service. We want people to understand what the firm or the the the

person is doing for them so they explain it to you to where you go, oh, okay. So if you have questions about that, okay, what how is AI being used in the preparation of my taxes? You know, uh if overseas, what's going on? Just ask those questions and somebody with great service who really cares about you and values you as a customer, certainly has the heart of a teacher, is going to have no problem answering those questions.

But George is right. Um, I'm not sure

you're going to be going anywhere in this country or any other country with professional services that have a um a

decent amount of clerical administrative work where AI is not going to be used.

>> Okay, thank you. >> Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for the call. That's a good question, George.

Yeah. And if you're not comfortable with it, just go, "No, thank you." And you can reach out to a, you know, a tax pro and you can find one of those at ramiesolutions.com and you can ask them, "Hey, what role does AI play in the way you do tax planning?" Yeah. >> And if you don't like the answer, you can move along to someone who does it old school. >> Yeah.

All right. Real real quick fun question for our next call.

>> Uh, I'm personally not scared.

>> Okay, good. and I'm going to stick to the the positives and, you know, how helpful it can be versus is it going to take over and and destroy everything?

Maybe. >> All right. >> But until then, I'm going to [clears throat] just >> You're a guy You're a guy that that operates with a decent level of anxiety.

So, people should take that with a uh serious shaker of salt. >> That is true. But I'm also very pragmatic and I like to be efficient.

Yes. And I think AI can be a great tool when used properly. >> Technology does not scare George Campbell. Stephanie is up next in Detroit. Stephanie, how can we help you?

>> Yeah, about five months ago, my uncle passed away. >> I'm so sorry. >> Me and my husband is home.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> When he passed away, we wanted to sell the home cuz it was only a two-bedroom home and it's like 30 minutes away from my kids school and on the school district. And since then, we've had issues with property boundary lines. And we've been working with a realtor and now since all this, we've started to love the property. And I'm wondering what is financially the best decision to do? Either sell the home or do renovations to make it a little bigger.

>> Okay, let's play this out. You love the home and so you started thinking about making improvements. What would be the future of that? Why? In other words, why make those improvements? Why do you love it?

>> It's on a lake.

>> Okay. So, would this be a secondary home?

we would sell where we're living now and move into the into there.

>> That's exactly what I was getting at.

So, now it comes down to okay, uh the

boundary issues you brought up. There's been some challenges. Is that a is that something that's easy to navigate and you now have some clear direction on it or is it going to be a headache ongoing?

>> We're not sure. We're still in the process of it.

>> Well, I can tell you just >> company now. I wouldn't I wouldn't think about selling my current home and moving into uncle's home, no matter how much I love it and how awesome the lake is, if there were some boundary issues. That scares me to death, George. I would get clarity on that before deciding anything. Here's the key question to ask, though. Would you buy this house today if it weren't inherited?

>> Let's say you had the cash, you knew what it was worth, you could pay cash for it, and you sp you probably not.

Yeah, probably not. >> Why?

>> In an area we wouldn't really go to because it's out of our kids school district. >> Then how would you move there today?

>> Well, the school's on the way to my husband's um work.

>> Okay. But it'd be a pretty big commute for him to get to work, for the kids to go to school. It would be inconvenient for your life as it stands today.

Yeah. >> Yeah. You just answered the question. George asked it as plainly as you as he could and you just said, "No, I wouldn't buy it if my uncle didn't give it to us." So, based on that, >> Yeah. >> and the boundary issues, uh, I would solve the boundary issues so that we could sell it.

The other piece of this, do you have financial goals where if you sold this house, it could really solve some other problems?

>> Do you have any debt? Do you have a mortgage? Uh, I we have debt. We

actually live in a trailer and we have

about 60,000 in debt.

>> Is the long-term plan to live in a trailer?

>> No. >> Okay. What could this house sell for?

>> We were told about 150 to 200,000.

>> Okay. So, think about it this way. >> Is that all cash coming to you? Have any debt? In other words, on the house?

>> Well, we have about 30 grand on the home. What do you mean on the home?

>> On the [clears throat] the mortgage for the trailer. >> No, no, I'm talking about uncle's house.

It's paid for. >> Oh, no. It's paid for.

>> Okay, great. Okay. >> So, if you could walk away with 200 grand, pay off your 60K in debt, pay off the 30 on the trailer. You still have 110 left potentially for a down payment on a home that will go up in value unlike the trailer.

>> Correct. Gamer. doing that all day long versus taking a vacation home that you may or may not live in.

>> You guys have some priorities right now.

>> So, I'm going to take this as a this inheritance as a blessing that puts you guys on a very different path than the one you're on right now.

>> Okay. >> Cuz the current path is not a great one.

Can we all say that out loud?

>> Yeah. >> We're $90,000 in debt. The trailer's going down in value, which means you're probably upside down on it. And we need some stability. And what your uncle did is a huge blessing to give you guys a different trajectory for your financial future and for your family tree.

>> Yes. >> And maybe one day you do buy a house on the lake. But right now, if you guys had no debt, you had plenty in savings and retirement, you were on track to be multi-millionaires, I'd say just keep it and for fun for now and maybe in the future you use it. But you guys aren't in that place.

And so I would sell it absolutely and get rid of it as soon as you can and use that money to pay down your debt.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, you got a good plan. Get a good real Do you have a good real estate pro on your team right now helping you solve all those?

>> Yes. Yep. >> Okay. Fantastic. I'm telling you, get that solved. Priority number one is to get whatever boundary issues, get all that clear so that you can list this house and then follow George's plan to you guys are going to be living it up.

What a great position to be in. You know, so sad that you lost your uncle, but boy did he bless you and we want to make sure you maximize this blessing.

Okay.

>> All right. Thank you for the call.

>> I'm still reverse engineering it like that. If would you do this today on your own valition versus it falling in your lap? And if the answer is no, you got to go all right. This isn't the move.

>> Yeah, I love it. >> As much as you could justify it. >> Yeah. >> Do your uh uh do your uh shark tank. I

love when you do that. >> Oh, and for those reasons, I'm out.

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Today's question comes from Colin in Georgia. My wife and I recently started the baby steps and are quickly paying off debt. We purchased a home two years ago with a 30-year mortgage. Once we pay off our debts, should we refinance ourselves to a 15-year mortgage? The mortgage is currently 25% of our take-home. We [snorts] can put extra money towards the mortgage once we get past baby step three. What would you suggest?

>> This would be a more information needed situation. >> I agree. >> Cuz it's it's not that simple. Now, we love for people to get the 15-year mortgage, but if you're already in a 30, it's not a yes, go do this today. You got to look at the interest rates and how much the refinance is going to cost you to find out how quickly you would break even. So, if you would break even on this loan in 6 months, then sure, go

for it. But if it's going to take a while to break even because of the current rates and the rate you currently have, it's okay to keep the 30 that you got and just pay extra like it's a 15 or

even better like it's a five or 10 and just get out of that thing as soon as you can. But if you want to crunch the numbers, uh, call up our friends at Church Hill Mortgage. They'll be happy to run the numbers for you to tell you honestly, does this make sense for you right now? >> Yeah, love that. Good advice there.

Thanks for the question. All right, we're going to go to Jesus in Dallas.

And uh looks like our notes tell me that he's got a gigantic car payment, George.

It might give you a little indigestion.

So, I've got the fake Tums over here ready to go. Uh so, let's see how we can help out there. Hey, Suz, tell us what your question is today.

>> Hello. Good afternoon, guys. uh happy to see be speaking to you guys this afternoon. Um my my only question is well I have other

questions that we have time for but my main question is how can I get out of my

the car loan that I have it's $34,000

in total. My monthly payment is $830

uh a month and I recently got it

evaluated for $14,750.

And my bank is Navy Federal Credit Union

>> and I asked I basically asked them if I could get a loan for the for the remaining balance balance so I can sell it and they denied me. So I was kind of

left at a loss. I don't know what to do next. And they're the ones that are holding the loan?

>> No. Okay. Um, no. Yeah.

>> All right. So, you said you got it evaluated. What do you mean by that? Who told you the car is worth 14?

>> Uh, Kelly Blue Bucks. I haven't taken it to like any any place where they physically looked at it, but you know, I put all the details. But >> you're saying the private party value was 14750.

>> Yeah. If uh that's a good number to basically trust Kelly.

>> Yeah. I was just making sure it wasn't the trade-in value, which is always going to be much lower. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you are $20,000 underwater. What other debt do you have?

>> I have no other debt. I've been listening to you guys for close to a year now >> and I managed to pay off my credit cards. I just have this car loan now.

>> Good. What do you make?

>> 77,000 a year. And um I'm a diesel

mechanic, so I my my monthly changes is

either under or higher, >> but that's what my salary is.

>> Do you have options for not just regular overtime with your company, but freelancing, if you will, given your unique skills?

>> I, you know, definitely thought about it, but I have not explored it because um I'm like so invested in to where I

work. I just work so much over here. And

uh >> Well, how much how much is um a lot?

>> Like 55 to 60 hours? 60 hours would be

like an extreme, but normally 50 hours.

>> How much were you putting away towards the credit cards while you were paying them off? What was the the most amount out of your monthly budget that you were putting on that debt

>> on the credit cards? >> Yeah.

I I kind of wasn't putting I was just doing the snowball and when I at the end of the month um so so the way I do it I

save for to pay off the month first and then anything extra I put it towards the cards and I just did that anything extra

I had I just throw it at the cards so my >> Yes. What was the average amount extra that you had to throw at debt per month at >> a,000 2,000 >> 1300 at the end of the month? Yeah.

>> Okay. Could you do more today now that those payments are gone?

>> Uh, yeah, of course. I could I could not that much more. Maybe like 1,5600 a month. >> Great. So, here's your options. Number one, you get a loan for the difference, which you've tried one place. They said no. You can always try a different place. The other option is saving the difference in cash in order to clear the title and sell it. Now, you still need more money to then go buy a different car, right? That's your only vehicle.

>> Yeah. Well, I I bought my fiance a cash

car here recently, maybe like a week ago. >> Why'd you buy her a car?

>> Uh because uh I'm in the reserves military and I do a lot of driving and when I'm away, she has no way of getting to work or also an important um part of

information is we're we're expecting a baby girl. >> Oh, wow. Congrats.

>> Thank you. So, um, for the expected days

that I'm supposed to leave, I leave like

five days, uh, at a given time.

>> Okay. So, do you need two cars right now or could you survive as a one car family? >> I we can survive. We've been doing uh

one car since we've known each other.

>> Okay. >> So, here's your other options. And what I'll suggest, you can either save up the 20K real fast aggressively. Like let's say if you can save up 2K a month, we got the 20K in 10 months >> to get rid of this or you just pay the car off aggressively and keep it.

Now, it's a lot of your world, but you've rolled over negative equity, so it's not a true picture because generally we say don't let your uh you know the total amount of vehicles, things with motors and wheels add up to more than half of your annual income.

>> But that's your other option. If you want to keep it, you pay it off aggressively. at 34 grand if you can put, you know, 1,600 bucks a month. It's going to take a while, but you could do it.

But because you only need one car, I like the plan of you throwing two or three grand a month at this thing and being done before the end of the year to get rid of it, >> right?

I'm doing the stork mode. of >> Got it. You're stacking up cash.

>> Okay. >> How much do you have saved right now?

>> Uh I had about I have about three three

and a half thousand right now and I expect to have well what like 7,000 by

the time she's born.

>> When are you guys getting married so that we can put those incomes together?

So, uh well, we we would love to get

married immediately, but um

my my mother, it's a situation with like an immigration case and the lawyers basically said it's not a good idea to get married yet. I I really didn't challenge it from there. I I just kind of said, "Okay." >> Because of your mother?

>> Uh because of my I'm in an immigration case with her. I'm trying to get her uh her residency, I believe, or citizenship. >> But what does that have to do with you two getting married?

>> Well, I I guess I don't know cuz I never ch I challenged the that statement. I didn't ask why can't we, you know.

>> Well, I'll give you the math on it. Let's say you save up, baby's home and healthy. That gives you a pile of cash you can throw at the debt. Within 6 months after that, you could have the 20 grand saved to cover the difference for the loan and then sell it and clear the title. and then you go down to one car and then whatever future money now we're saving up to get a second car if you need one or we're just stacking up the emergency fund if you're out of debt at that point.

>> Okay, there's no shortcuts here. Do not go further into debt. The only reason I tell you to take out a loan from a credit union is if you can go down in debt and then get out of that aggressively. >> Yeah, George, I'm wondering why and I did not hear you recommend this. Why not have a third option where he sells the car and gets the max he can get for it?

Cuz it's going down in value if they can truly survive off of one car, which is her cash car. Why not sell? >> Well, because when you're underwater, you don't have a clean title. And so without a clean title, he's not going to be able to hand that title over to the person buying it.

>> There you go. >> And so there's a lean against the the vehicle with the lender. And so to clear that, you got to go to the bank, have the money, the difference, >> it's not as clean as it sounds >> to pay off the loan. Yeah.

So it's it's a process.

It's you can't be underwater on a car you pay cash for. And it's one of the best reasons [music] to never go into debt for a car on top of many others.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Co. George Camel is alongside we're here for you.88255225.88255225.

All right, let's go to Ryan in Salt Lake City. Ryan, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how's it going today? >> Good. How are you? >> I'm looking at I'm doing very well. I was just wanting to ask you what I would have to do at 28 years old this February

to retire at 40 years old.

>> Okay, you got George over here who does his magical computations.

>> Yeah, we can talk about how to do it and then I want Ken to talk about should you do it. M I like >> what what caused this goal?

>> Well, uh I'm trying to go against the grain and I do not want to work until I'm past 60 and I believe I have the

income in order to do that and uh kind of break the streak and retire at 40.

>> Okay. Well, there's a lot of variables we don't know, but let's start with what you make today.

So last year I made 235,000

and I'm projected this year. Um you know

that was with some bonuses last year. Uh my pre-tax is supposed to be around 206

to 210 this year. Um >> great. So we'll mark it a little over 200 >> about 147.

>> Are you single?

>> I'm married with two children. >> Okay. And that's the household income is your is your spouse at home?

Uh she runs our company that we uh opened a few years ago. She does uh consulting for construction companies, but that's her thing. I got out of the company uh when I went from 1099 to being a W2 employee.

>> Okay. So, is that additional income or is that part of the 235 >> that that's not including my income.

Okay. >> Uh she's part-time and doesn't uh get

maybe get 10 hours a week or so, but I'm not factoring that in. >> All right. So, what is your goal? Do you have a goal in mind of how much you need to have saved in order to accomplish this to be work optional?

>> I'd like to I'd like to have at least uh

$7,000 coming in a month. 7 to9,000 for

retirement every single month.

>> Okay. So, you're probably looking at, you know, at least one.5 million bucks or something sitting in an account that's invested, you know, heavily in equities and stocks. And so do you have anything saved right now or invested?

>> I have $5,000 in Schwab and $15,000 in

savings and my checking account usually floats around 8,000. I just got myself out of a ton of debt. U so right now is

my my time to kind of start the

investment process in order to do the retirement. Okay. And uh I got two loans um that I'm still working on.

>> Okay. So, let's walk through the process that I would personally walk through if this was my goal, which would be to pay off all of my debt. And that means liquidating most of the savings to do that, to speed this up, getting a fully funded emergency fund of 3 to 6 months, which if you're saying you're you're what's your burn rate every month right now. How much do you need to get by?

>> Uh, right now 5,7483.

>> Okay. So, let's call it 35 grand as a six-month emergency fund for you guys.

So, that's your next goal. Then we need to be investing 15% for retirement because we want to take advantage of any tax advantaged accounts we can first.

And so if you got a match, let's start there. Roth accounts, that's a great move there for taxfree growth and then traditional accounts. Then beyond that, beyond the 15%, if you wanted to put some money away in a brokerage account like is what that's what you're talking about with the Schwab account.

>> Yes. In SWTSX.

>> Okay. Then if you wanted to put money there for it to grow and you put, you know, 50 grand a year, let's say, that would get you about 1.1 in 12 years.

>> So you'd be a little off the mark. So then you, you know, let's ratchet it up to 70. Well, that gets you to 1.6.

>> The other factor here is your mortgage.

Are you guys, you guys own?

>> Yes. My total housing is about 2828 and that's including uh the 2123 mortgage,

Wi-Fi, water, trash, and all that.

>> What's left on the mortgage?

>> Uh we're at 338.

>> Okay. I personally would attack the mortgage first before I was doing additional into the brokerage account.

And you'll have time. >> What would that be? >> What's that? What what would the benefit of attacking the mortgage first be rather than u maybe getting rid of a car

payment which is less than >> Oh, no. You need to attack the consumer debt first. Hear me say that. So, we talked about knocking out the consumer debt, getting an emergency fund, investing 15%, then anything extra.

We're putting some toward college, paying off the mortgage, which means we're probably going to be delaying this plan.

>> Okay?

>> Once the house is paid off, now we can invest beyond the 15%, put money into the brokerage account. Cuz here's the thing. If you got rid of that mortgage payment, it really reduces how much you actually need in that fountain, doesn't it?

>> I have something to throw at you.

>> Okay? >> So, if my if my housing is 2,828

a month, but my vehicles is 22.65 a

month, I can I can pretty much free up the same amount if I paid off the vehicles a lot quicker than the house cuz it's not that big of a number, which >> Yeah. Oh, I'm dude. I'm telling you, follow the baby steps. Consumer debt goes first. Did you miss that part? So, the the cars are going to get paid off ASAP.

Then the emergency fund gets stacked up.

Then you start investing 15% into retirement accounts. Then some money to college. Then we throw the money at the mortgage. So, I'm not telling you to pay off the mortgage before your cars.

>> Gotcha. >> And by the way, a guy who wants to retire early should not be carrying $2,200 in car loans, >> right?

>> I agree with that. >> Okay. Just want to make sure because that is flying in the face of your stated goal of financial freedom. Now I want Ken to quickly hit on should you do this because I have followed the FIRE movement and seen what's happening over there and it frankly worries me.

>> Yeah. Are you are you a fan of the financially independent retire early?

That's the FIRE movement.

>> Uh I'm not I'm not aware of that.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, here here's what we found and this is all documented. the guy who started who's credited with starting this movement. The idea was work like an absolute maniac. Don't live life. Don't enjoy anything uh until you're 40 and you stack stack stack stack stack. And the guy who actually is considered the founder of this actually went back to work uh two or three years into it uh for a couple of reasons.

Number one, he thought in his mind that

he had not actually saved enough given how the cost of college was going up.

That was one of his stated concerns.

Also, the guy was bored out of a skull and and you know, there's nothing wrong with retiring. And I love, by the way, whenever I say this, people always come at me in the comments and and come at me because I'm not going to be in there. George will tell me. >> I'll fill them in. [snorts] >> I'm not saying that there aren't certain people who can retire at any age and never work at their life and be as happy as a clam, fishing, hunting, whatever.

But what I am saying is is that we know

from research that it has negative effects on us because there is this built-in desire in our spirit in our soul to make

a contribution. So I'm not saying you got to work 40 hours a week until the day you fall over. I am saying that it

is it is proven that it is better for us mentally, emotionally, and physically to have some type of purpose outside of just play uh as we age, >> right? >> So, but I will tell you, I love that you called us and threw it out there, but I got to tell you, after George ran those numbers out, you've got a ways to go based on this after you follow everything I've told you, you still have to stack. to stack 100 grand away in that account for a decade for this to even make sense.

to have a more realistic goal >> and a healthier one >> and a healthier one so that we can actually reach it. Cuz I think you you've created a mountain in your mind that's not climbable given your financial realities. But if you do what George said, you're going to be a very happy man and can in fact retire much earlier than most.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

All right, folks. [music] If you have kicked your debt to the curb, you

deserve to celebrate. Where do they deserve to celebrate, George? Where would somebody where would you recommend that somebody who who beat beat all their debt? They got it out of their life.

How would you think they might, you know, celebrate that? >> I think somewhere warm, somewhere tropical, and somewhere with Dave Ramsey and the Ramsay personalities. >> How about the Caribbean? >> I'll go there >> with Dave, you, me, and all the other Ramsay personalities.

>> Take me there. Want to go there? >> All right. It's called the Live Like No One Else Cruise.

Folks, it's coming back uh after much popular demand. And I'm not reading from any notes here. This is a fact.

>> Those folks loved it who went on it before. And uh so my my my this is going to sell out way faster because now everybody knows how great it is. And I got to tell you, um I'm not a cruise guy, George. >> Traditionally, >> well, I don't like being on the boat.

I like the clothes that you would wear on a boat. The attire is what they >> I like the boat attire and I like the Caribbean. Well, this crew this cruise was great and so here we do. Here we go.

We're going to roll it back.

they say run it back. Not roll it back.

Run it back. >> It's your show, Ken. >> March 14th through 21. March 14 through

21. 2027. That's next year if you're looking at your calendars. Uh in the Bahamas.

How about Jamaica? George, >> do I want to take you? Was that my Q?

>> It was. Okay. Uh, the Grand Cayman and

Kazumel.

Uh, cabins are limited. Save up to $300

when you book by February 7. So, hey,

those of you who haven't made any plans, are you kidding me? Next March, you got cash. You want to save 300 bucks, you got to do it before February 7. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramiesolutions.com/events to book your cabin. I am looking forward to this. Um, I did not think it was going to be as amazing as it was. The ship was great. Uh the people, our our our our fans are just amazing.

>> It was electric energy. >> The buffets were next level. And I will tell you, there was in fact a pickle ball court on top of the ship. So if you're a pickle ball, we had a lot of tournaments going on.

And >> they wore you out, man. You were up there for like seven hours and people like, "No, no, no. You're not going anywhere, Ken. I want to play you." >> Yeah. Oh, there's a shot right there with the headband. >> Oh my gosh. >> And the lettuce, as the kids call my hair. uh flowing on top of the ship.

It's on the top deck, George. >> That's a bold move to show off your legs, Ken. Yeah, >> with those chicken legs you got down there. >> I Well, there's nothing to be ashamed of. They're just little. That's all it is. So, we'd love to see you on the cruise. And uh I wear, by the way, on stage, did you like my attire? I really went with a cruise ship theme last last year. >> All of those white pants you own finally came in handy. >> Well, lots of linen and lot of loafers.

>> Yeah, a lot of loafers. All right, Carol knows what we're talking about somewhere in sunny Florida. Carol, how can we help you today?

>> Uh, thanks for taking my call.

>> You bet. What's going on? >> Um, my husband and I are both going to be turning 65 this year, and we want to retire at the end of the year, >> and we're trying to decide if we should pay off our house or not. Um, and if so, where we should pull the money from. We don't have any other debt. Um, and we do

have some savings. We have about 1.1

million in an IRA. Uh 90,000 of that is

in a 401k and we have about 145,000 in savings.

>> Awesome. >> We owe 155,000 on the house and the

interest rate is 2.75%.

Um the problem is the maturity date on that loan is 201. So we'll be about 90.

>> Yeah. No, thank you.

But um I'm not sure, you know, if I pay

it off, I'm not sure exactly where to pull the money from.

>> So you've got 145K in liquid cash. What is that earmarked for right now?

>> Um tell initially to live off of when we

retire. We'd like to delay drawing our social security, which would be about $4400 a month. If we draw now, we'd like to wait at least a couple years and let that grow. Okay.

>> Um, our monthly expenses are about 5,000.

>> Great. So, you almost have the cash to do it, but you're saying you need a big chunk of this to basically live because you want to retire by the end of the year. >> Yes. Um, retirement for me is a great goal. It's going to be a really big switch mindset for me because I'm a saver, not a spender.

So, depleting money out of that savings makes me incredibly uncomfortable. Yeah.

Yeah. >> So that's why I feel like I need a little bit of advice from someone who has a broader outlook.

>> What's your household income?

>> Our household income right now is about 160,000. >> Awesome. >> And we save about 2500 a month and we

put uh about 15% into our uh investments

with employer match. >> Okay. So outside of 15%, you're saying you have 2500 extra you can throw at the mortgage?

>> Yes. All right, that that'll get you far. That's 30 grand right there. And by that point, the mortgage is down to 125 grand. You'll have the money in cash, but you're going to need some of that to float you for a year or two, it sounds like. >> Right. >> And do you have any other money outside of the 1.1 nest egg?

>> Um, I have about 40, well, say 45,000, no 52,000 in a

Roth. >> Okay. >> Um, but I didn't start it until 2022. So I don't think I can withdraw from that without penalty for five years. Is that correct?

>> Yes. Uh do you have a financial advisor you've used to crunch all these numbers?

>> Um I I have some my investments in

Schwab and I've talked to them, but the

rest of it I've just done on my own.

>> Okay. My only fear is that you're riding it pretty tight if you're wanting to spend five grand of net income a year for the rest of your life off of this million dollar nest egg. And so that's the part where I can see it working, but uh a Smart Vster Pro can run the projections out and show you all of the scenarios and what, you know, medical costs might be and when Social Security would kick in and when you should take it. All of that will factor into when you should retire.

>> Okay? >> So, I think you're on the cusp here and I think you can pull this plan off, but I would double check it with a Smart Investor Pro to make sure that the numbers make sense. But if I'm in your shoes, I like using cash first. We want to save the retirement.

If you have any taxable uh investment accounts, use that next. Then we move on to traditional accounts and then if you have any Roth accounts, I would wait as long as I could because those are growing taxfree for you right now. So that would be the the bucket strategy and a Smart Ver Pro can walk you through that based on your numbers. And it might mean, hey, we got to work 6 months into 2027 to make this work, but I want to make sure that you're ironclad.

>> Love it.

Let's go to Michelle right here in our backyard of Nashville, Tennessee.

Michelle, how can we help?

>> Hi. How are you guys doing today? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Good. Well, recently, uh, my husband and I both have had some raises. We're still in the middle of baby step two. And I'll be honest, we've been doing this for a couple years now, and so just trudging along on this baby step two feels like it's just going on forever. But since we've got these raises, I'm wondering if I can quit my side hustle. um and just

put this extra income towards Baby Stub 2. >> What was uh your side hustle paying you?

[clears throat] >> Um it's about 20,000 a year.

>> What is your what's your raise paying you? What's the net on the raise?

>> About 6,500 a year.

>> So it's not apples to apples, correct?

>> Well, it's not. But my husband also got a big increase in pay and his was about 40,000. >> Oh, okay. All right. So yeah, I mean you

certainly can.

Um, what's the timeline differences?

Let's say you kept the side hustle and his raise and your raise. How fast would you get out versus if you quit the side hustle? Does it delay it by 3 months or a year?

>> No, it's not a year. When I put it in um

the app um every dollar it it says it's like three or four months difference. Although, you

know, like I said, I'm just tired of working, you know, the extra job, but um I certainly want to get the debt paid off, too. And to be quite honest, I don't like the extra three or four months either. So, >> well, there's your answer. It's really not our answer.

I mean, we can give you our take, but there's no right or wrong answer is really my answer, but I would lean towards I was going to turn the question on you and you got ahead of me and you asked your own question and answered it.

Continuing the side hustle or continuing to stay in debt even longer and sacrificing in other ways and making the payments and paying the interest. And so if you can find a second wind here and just power through and go, I hate this side hustle so much. I'm willing to work even harder, I think will fuel this debtree journey for you. >> I agree. I agree. You hate the side hustle, you hate the debt. But if you work three to four months more, you get rid of both of them at the same time.

That's my answer. Bing, bada boom.

>> And I'm sticking to it.

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Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

>> [music] >> All right. It's always fun when we have friends of Dave stop by. And Dave's got lots of friends, George, as you know, and they're interesting people. And uh this is a special treat for us. We're really excited to be joined in studio uh by Andy Irwin and Bart Lard. and and and and you're going, "Uh, I think I may know those names." Well, you do. Andy Irwin, the award-winning filmmaker, uh, behind the very first film, I Can Only Imagine Bart Lard is now uh, is is

producing this as well. I Can Only Imagine 2 is the follow-up to I Can Only Imagine. And I got to say to you guys, when I saw that this was coming out, I thought this is a good sign that the first movie, we know it was a big deal, but there had to be a lot of heat because I'm not a fan of sequels, George. you know, they're hard to pull off.

>> They're hard to pull off >> unless it's Home Alone 2. You're like, "All right, good." >> That's one that I thought was was good, but not great. And so, I'm very excited about this sequel. Guys, first of all, welcome to the studio.

Welcome to the Ramsay Show. And I think it begs the question, I I'm being serious. I mean, it seems scary >> to pull off a sequel because it's not done well.

Why pull off the sequel? >> Uh, I was terrified. I said no over and over again. And so Bart and I have been really good friends since the first movie. And and uh they kept bringing up this idea of I think there might be more story to tell. So Cindy Bond, who was the original producer, was like, I think there's more story. And I was like, absolutely not, cuz I don't want to ruin it. It was just so magic.

>> And there's just there's sequels that are made that worship the original and then they just mess it all up. And then there's Top Gun Maverick. And so the idea of reintroducing you to the world you love and taking it somewhere new.

And so Cindy started talking to Bart and then Brent Mccoral who did Jesus Revolution with my brother. They started talking about the story of Even If the song that so many people love every bit as much as I can only imagine. And so when they started walking through that they said you got to hear this. So they pulled me into the conversation. They walked me through the story and it was just the second half of a whole and it's the perfect end to a father-son story.

And I was in tears by the end of it and then Bart was like I think this is kind of like the spiritual sequel to I can only imagine. And I was like, "No, this is the literal sequel. I can get that made tomorrow." And we pitched at the Lionsgate 30 seconds in. They're like, "Guys, we're obviously doing this movie." So for us to step into it was magic.

To finish the movie and test it, we were just nervous like what's the audience going to think? >> The first I can imagine was our highest testing film we've ever had. It scored a 96 with the audience. This one scored a 97.

So it's exciting.

hopefully not >> what you guys have done in the the world of film and faith. It always it hasn't always been world class. And you guys have brought just such a level of quality from the stories to the acting, the craftsmanship. And so I can't wait to see uh you know this one out in theaters February 20th for everyone to see it for themselves, especially for our audience. >> Yeah. You know, yeah, your audience is in for a treat. You know, Dave, Dave, and Ramsay is a part of this like uh

>> the part of the movie was filmed. I just found this out moments ago. Tell us what what's going on, Bart. How did this happen? Because you and Dave are big buddies. >> Yeah, he's my stunt double. Uh, [laughter] pretty much. No, man. Uh, yeah, Dave and I have been buddies for a long time. I didn't even realize that he made the movie until I saw the >> So, Dave Ramsey has a cameo. If you listen, you listen for a familiar voice,

you will you will recognize it. >> So, you're filming on campus here. And then then after I learned that, I was also disappointed to find out that George and I did not make the final cut.

>> You're You were too expensive. >> Did they even send you my audition tape?

That's because they named your price and it just priced you out. So, we're going to have to work up to your level. Yeah, I'll get there. >> We actually we actually we emailed Dave and said everybody's like, "No, Dave never says yes to filming stuff like that here." And so I emailed him and he was on y'all's cruise and I just said, "Hey Dave, be careful when you're friends with a filmmaker cuz we ask for stuff." >> And I was like, "How would you feel about us filming the movie at your place?" And he was like, "Yeah, man.

It' be fine. Talk to the guys, work it out." And I was like, and so >> he picked him on a good day. He was on the cruise having a good time. >> He was good.

He was out in the sun. >> He had just finished the buffet. Uh that's why he was excited.

of the story. You know, as a guy who of course you've been nominated, won so many awards as lead singer of Mercy Me.

This is such a different space. You telling stories with songs, but as you were walking through this in the story that we heard, at what point do you go, I I think this is a big screen story?

Uh, I don't know if I was ever sure about that until I actually uh read the script. Um, I mean, it's been almost 10

years since the last movie. Exactly. I had did an interview yesterday and they're like, "So, you're cashing in with a sequel." I was like, "You don't normally cash in." No. 10 years later.

It's like and and so I really was excited that there was a story there, but man, when Cindy Bond originally wanted to make a movie around Even If, she wanted to just find any story like fan mail, something. And it was when I met with Brent Mccoral who wrote co-wrote Imagine did Jesus Revolution and he goes, "Well, where' the song come from?" And as I told him the story, that's when he had tears in his eyes and he was like, "This is it." And what if we literally got the band back together and put it kind of in this universe and made it a sequel and and so I was like I was a little skeptical cuz you know, you never think your life's that interesting and it's not.

He made it very interesting. But uh but yeah, when I read the script, I was like, "Okay, yeah, let's do this." Well, so much of the story is about the the true cost of success, the underbelly of, >> you know, you you have this thing hit and there's other piece of your life that you get a flat tire in because you're so focused on your career and and a lot of our fans experience that. So, where does this movie pick up? Is it a direct connection?

And I, you know, I love the stories in the building here, just how, you know, Dave has never shied away from that. A lot of this was born out of failure and out of, you know, learning at the lowest point. And so, you know, with Bart's story, I was really really um just excited that he was willing to look at on the other side of success of what happens if happily ever after breaks.

What happens if you get everything you've ever dreamed of? You know, the crowd starts, stops cheering, they go home, and then life goes back to being hard. And where's God in the hardship there? And so, this new character Timonss kind of gets brought into the mix. Played by Milo Ventilia, >> that people know from This Is Us and Gilmore Girls and all that type stuff.

And uh >> is that based on Tim? >> Yeah. So yeah, so yeah, Tim is Yeah, he's the guy. So he's he's >> I play pickle ball with Tim and you he told you [laughter] >> the movie is about Tim.

>> He's been he's been hurt. He's been playing. So he showed up recently and the weather been rough, but I got to tell you, I'm a little excited. Keep going. I apologize. >> So it's Tim. So Tim's one of Bart's best friends. >> We co-wrote even if and so the story is how we got to write that song. We got to that point. >> I love that dude. I've known him long, long time, but didn't know that >> you're about to get a lot of him.

[laughter] >> I got to text him on the way home and be like, "Dude, you're holding out on us.

I'm going to embarrass him next Wednesday night when we play." >> I love it. Please do. If you can embarrass Timmons, then you're you're good luck. You're special because he's he's hard to embarrass.

That's true. >> But he and uh he and Milo just hit it off and Milo really wanted to make the faith authentic. And so Tim is this guy that come gets thrown into Bart's world and is carrying this kind of secret about his own journey uh and but has this idea of gratitude living with gratitude of God thank you that you woke me up today and this kind of tension between grief and gratitude and he begins to kind of you know encourage Bart and this journey and it leads to this amazing song and ultimately is the healing of this father-son story of Bart as a father towards his son and we finished it at Red Rocks.

We filmed the end of the movie at Red Rocks. Oh, that's epic.

it's epic. >> I love it. We're talking about the new movie, I Can Only Imagine, too, in theaters February 20th. Bart, I want to

give you a final word to encourage our audience because these people, as you know well, are walking through some tough stuff. You know, our baby steps, while simple to explain, are very difficult to do. And I've just kind of moved as Andy was talking about the theme of this film.

>> Encourage people who are in those dark days of just scrambling to maybe come up with a thousand bucks or they're in the middle of baby step two where they're paying off debt and it feels like an insurmountable climb. What would you say to them? >> Man, life is messy.

>> I love it. Well, folks, if you love the first movie, and millions of you did, I can only imagine, [music] well, I can only imagine, too, coming out in theaters February 20th. Uh, also a

special fan event, a little kind of a sneak peek. Give us real quick 10 seconds on this. >> Uh, February 14th, we got a a fan event where they'll they'll have a one [music] night screening all across the country, February 14th. So, you can get some early access stuff. They they uh recorded Even If with uh at Abbey Road in London. >> Where do they get details for that? They they get details online. I can only imagine movie.com. >> There it is. I can only imaginemov.com.

Did I get that right? >> I think I got it right. I probably got it wrong. >> Date night. Valentine's Day. >> Yeah, you can't miss it. Valentine's Day is great. Hey guys, thanks for being with us, Andy. Appreciate you guys.

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>> [music]

>> You work your butt off for your money, but your money's never going to return the favor if all you do is hope for the best. If you're ready to learn how to make your money work for you, check out the Smart Investor program. Smart Veester can help you find advisors who specialize in retirement planning, charitable giving, advanced investing strategies, and more. Whatever your goals, your pro will take the time to explain your options so you never have to invest in anything you don't understand.

Head to ramseyolutions.com/smartvevestor to get connected. >> Ramseyolutions is a paid non-client promoter of participating pros.

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All right, our scripture of the day comes from Luke 16:10. Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. [music] Our quote today from John Wooden. Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do. Trent is joining us now in Idaho. Trent, how can I help?

>> Hey George, Ken. Um, so I was calling. I had a question. So, kind of got a late

start on my retirement and I'm currently

in a good position building my retirement up, but uh I don't really

have I've got a wife and four kids and

uh we're we're plan on adding two more

kids, but the the small town we live in

doesn't really offer experience or opportunity for our kids to grow. and I got a potential job

opportunity in my company in a larger city where there is more opportunity for my kids, but we would sacrifice our 401k

growth that we're building right now.

Kind of wanted some advice. >> What do you mean sacrificing growth there? Because you said it's with your company.

>> Yes. So, so currently right now, um,

my housing it's not, we pay like 300

bucks a month on rent. And so we have

been able to put, uh, for the last two years, we've been putting 40% of each paycheck into retirement into my 401k Roth. And so, we've been able to build a

lot the last two years. And then but in

the small town there's not a lot of opportunities for kids to grow and learn

things. >> So you're saying you'll have less money to put into retirement due to a higher cost of living.

>> Correct. >> What is your what's your pay now and what would it be in the new city?

So, um it it would be I'm currently

getting paid around 74,000 a year and

um it's it was put on the table. So, I don't have like a a set amount that I would be getting paid in the new city.

It would be either equal to or maybe a

little bit more than what I'm currently making. >> So, it' be a lateral move, >> but you would have more opportunities for your family in general.

a better quality of life, let's say.

>> Yes. >> I'm taking that over, you know, more in the 401k. >> I Yeah, I'm just sitting here listening and listening to the line of questioning. I'm going, this is a no-brainer to me. What What would be the doubt that you have about this?

uh because because how so like right now I have uh

165,000 in a my Roth 401k and so we've

been able that's where we're at right now and we're

we're saving saving saving trying to build it up as fast >> but why but I I understand again what what is that the doubt you're going to be making more money

>> well it would Well, yes, because we wouldn't be putting as much into retirement, but we'd also >> Yeah, but you also are going to have some type of a 401k or Roth program with that company. >> Can you still invest 15% in this new area? Cuz that's the baby steps until you pay off the house, which you guys said you're renting right now.

>> Well, currently right now, we're just in the Yeah, we just we rent. We don't have no. >> So, a goal would be to own a home and then pay that house off one day while investing 15%.

>> How old are you? Well, hold on. Hold on.

I don't I Let's get to that. But, but Trent, I'm not sure that we've we've landed for yourself why you have doubt about taking this better job with with better opportunities for your family.

because of the the opportunity that I

currently have to build my retirement.

>> That's not that's not the reason. It's not for a 401k. What makes you so freaked out about this retirement account that you're shoving 40% of your money into it?

>> Uh I I'd like to retire early.

>> Yeah. But okay, let's say there if you take this new job, will you be making more money? Yes or no?

It it will be equal to or maybe a little

bit more, but it's it'll probably be just like a even right across.

>> Then why are you considering it a better opportunity?

>> Uh better opportunity for

my kids and my family. So like there

currently am >> uh give me specifics.

>> Specifics. So, um, like activities as

far as like sporting activities, getting them involved in extracurricular.

>> Okay. So, better quality of life, we can say that. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Let me come back to it. Let's call this company XYZ, and I'm not I'm not totally cutting you off, George, but I I feel like we're stuck here, Trent. Does company XYZ have a retirement program so

that the day you come in there they start you start contributing through them just like you are now.

>> Well, it the it is through my company.

So they do a they match up to 3%. And

then so >> Okay. This is through your current company, >> correct? And it is this the the company I'd be going to is the same company.

It's just a different location.

>> So, he's just saying he's gonna have less money because it's a higher cost of living, so he can't put as much into the 401k. That's the only thing here that you're >> Well, I I missed that part because I thought there was opportunity for you to grow financially in this job.

>> And I would make the case with your employer that, hey, if I'm going to make this move to a higher cost living area, move my family, there needs to I need more compensation for this

>> to then cover the higher expenses. I think that's a fair thing to negotiate.

>> It's fair, but at the same time, Trent, if this is better quality of life for your family and you're still in good shape, and George, you were going to go to the numbers here to show the key is, can you live off of $80,000 in this new city, can you cover all of your bills?

>> Uh, yes, we can. My wife and I are we're >> Do you have any debt? >> Very smart with >> No, no debt at all. >> How much do you have in savings for an emergency fund?

Uh, we have 8,000 in our emergency fund and I have around

42,000 in our savings.

>> So, you have 50,000 in cash essentially.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And how old are you?

>> 38. >> Okay. You're 38. You wanted to retire early. Can we call that 55? Is that fair?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. If you never get a raise, you invest that,000 bucks a month. That's the money you're putting in. 15% plus some employer match. you'd have about $1.5 million at 55

from that one account. That's if you never get a raise from 38 to 55, which we can all agree is a ridiculous proposition.

>> Mhm. >> So, what's likely to happen is you purchase a home, you pay that home off, you increase your investing, you get raises along the way, and all of a sudden it looks more like $2 million at 55.

And that's with you cutting back to 15%.

So, the question I would ask is, can I move to this new city while investing 15% of my income and cover all the bills, cover this new rent, which is going to be higher than $300?

>> Mhm. >> And I think you're going to find the answer is yes. >> Is the answer yes, Trent?

>> Yes. Yeah, we're >> He's got a good grasp. >> My wife and I are smart. >> Yeah. Trent, you're such a detail guy.

You're on top of it. I know you've done all this research. So, again, what's the big doubt? Do we still have the doubt?

Uh >> yes, he's laughing.

>> There's some doubt. >> You've got four opposing goals here. I want the kids to have a better life, but I also want to put 40% into my 401k. And I also And so you've got to just go, what is the best thing for our family right now? >> And I think we It's very clear it's moving to this new city. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And you'll be fine on retirement. I'm really not worried about that. You're in great shape. If you keep staying out of debt, you worked your butt off. You're going to keep getting raises. That's right. You're going to get a home. You're going to pay that home off in the next 15 years and then you have a paid for home and two million bucks in the bank in your 50s. >> Where's your wife at on this decision?

uh she is leaning more towards the

uh retirement putting more into the retirement which is why I'm I'm hesitant >> and not okay see this is information that I was trying to dig from you earlier >> but I think we need to get to the root of why she's so worried about that because you guys are on track to become multi-millionaires and so I think there is an unhealthy fear that is not rooted in reality about this >> that's right >> and you're sacrificing remember the quality of life for your children for the foreseeable future by staying where you are.

>> George, what's your vote? I would vote for quality of life. >> I would move yesterday. >> I would, too. Quality of life is just something you can't measure until it happens. All right. Appreciate the call.

And hey, everybody, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 237. When Life Gets Hard, Choose Financial Stability | April 16, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show and I'm

Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, George Camel, and we are answering your question. So give us a call at 888255225.

All right, starting us off is an in Bend, Oregon. Hi Ann.

Hi, I'm calling because so I've been

very blessed with my family and how much they support me. Um, and so my dad and I

have been building this house bit by bit. Um, and we're hoping to have it finished by fall. Um, but to do this, my

parents have a heliloc on their house where we've been using it to kind of cash for the build. And so I'm at this

point where, you know, I went through the baby steps. I started $1,000, paid off the debts that I had, closed my credit cards, have a $23,000 6mon

emergency fund. >> Oh, good for you. >> Um, and so now I'm sitting at this point where as we're getting closer to finishing the build, my mom and I are trying to decide what is a better option. I've been paying on the heliloc as like as if I have a mortgage, right?

Um, but we're deciding if we should be

ref if I should refinance it and just have a mortgage. which way they don't have a heliloc and they, you know, and they're good on their pl their on with their play. Right. >> Right. >> Um but refinancing means that I'm adding

the cost of insurance, I'm adding closing cost and all these other costs.

And so we're trying to decide is it worth it if to do that at a benefit to

save like half a percent on the fixed rate versus the current adjustable rate

that's on the helock right now.

Well, it's a great question. So, how much would how much did they take out in the heliloc that would become the mortgage for you?

>> Uh, it's sitting atund like about 130

140,000 right now. >> Okay. And that'll be the total mortgage for you, right? There's nothing else.

>> Uh, >> or is there another loan that you would >> The total is going to beund about 155.

We're finishing building the apartment and so there's some stuff that I still have to buy. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> Finish, you know, walls and stuff like that. >> And question. Do your parents, are they going to own this home or is this going to be yours? >> No, it's under my name already.

>> Okay. So, they're just helping pay. Okay. Well, I know what I would do, Ann, if I was in your case. George, I'd be curious if we're on the same team or not, but I I would move it to a mortgage. >> Um, first and foremost, for me, it's the relational aspect. I wouldn't want any level of risk from my parents from a financial aspect considering it's equity in their permanent you know their their residence and so separating it out and I

would I would push to say if you can't afford the closing costs and all associated with getting a mortgage then that makes me nervous to be like okay can you even afford this house right is this too much but you have a great emergency fund that you can maybe pull some from uh to kind of cash flow it but

I would do it out of out of more the relational aspect of keeping this separate separate and that yeah you this is yours. This isn't theirs anymore.

>> What would you say George? >> This is a gift that is wrapped in a liability. So it just feels icky like I want to get out of it as soon as possible. So what was the balance on the heliloc remaining?

>> Um currently it's 140 but I can't refinance until I have final occupancy.

>> Yes. Right. Right. >> We're looking at a couple of months. >> But have you actually looked into the math to see if you can afford this mortgage on your own?

>> Yes. Yes. I I >> wants to refinance. Okay. What is your take home payment?

>> Uh take home is 3,000, but I have a partner who has an additional 2500.

>> And are they going to be paying into this as well? The mortgage.

>> Yeah, we're we're we're going to be getting married. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Um

yeah. So together it's So what what it'll end up being what? Probably 1,200 a month. Do you know what the payment will be?

I'm thinking it's going to be end up being probably about that. Somewhere between 1,00,200. Currently, right now with the heliloc, I'm paying 860.

>> Okay. But it has the adjustable rate attached to it, too.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I would contact our friends at Church Hill Mortgage Anne and they can walk you through all the scenarios, the numbers, the refinance, and walk you through.

Maybe there might be a third option we're not even thinking of that they can uh help you with. But I would just get out of this weird relational quagmire >> first and foremost before any of the math comes into play. Whether it's a half percent or I'm g have to pay closing costs. This is sort of the cost of salvaging this relationship before anything happens.

You're sort of getting ahead of it because it is putting them at risk. >> Yeah. And there's something so true about, you know, when scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender.

Thanksgiving dinner together. Like it just there there there's just this money piece in the middle of it that is there.

>> You go on a honeymoon after you get married and they go, "Wow, look at that nice vacation they took while they owe us $140,000." >> Yeah. That they could have put toward the key. Yeah. And and even if it's all goodwill, there's still a there there's a new label on your parents like whether you like it or not that they are your bank, you know?

And so there's just there's the separation of that. Like let them just be your parents. Don't rope them in um with all this. I mean it's very generous of them.

You know, I probably wouldn't have even, you know, we wouldn't suggest a Hilo to to do this, but you know, like it sounds like you guys have a great relationship. You've worked really well, but I you know, I would I would have my parents be my parents and uh not my lender.

Tampa? Did I say that correctly?

>> Yes, you did. >> Oh, wonderful. Welcome to the show. How can we help?

>> Yeah. So, my husband and I just paid off about 70,000 in debt.

>> Awesome. >> Congratulations. Seven months.

>> Amazing. >> In seven months, >> I kind of know. >> Is that what you said? >> Yeah. Seven months. >> Oh my gosh. Impressive. >> Did y'all sell something or how did you get the the 7K per month?

>> Um, he has a good job in finance. He does mortgages. >> Oh, good. Okay. Good for you guys.

That's awesome. Great.

>> So, all thing all thanks to him. Um, and

so we kind of want to know when we can go on vacation. We haven't been since

we've been together for four years.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> how much more like >> we have two cars, but other than that, that's >> how much is it about it >> together? Probably about 70.

>> Okay. So, another seven months. Um, then

yeah, you would get the green light from us. Uh ideally you would have some money saved in an emergency fund before you do the vacation. So it may be one more year um for you all from you know if you're doing the the Ramsay plan that's what we would what we would recommend. No vacations or anything while on baby step two while you're paying off debt.

Everything goes to get out of debt.

>> Um >> okay including the cars. Okay.

>> Yep. Including the cars. Everything but the house. And then okay ideally again having some emergency fund. um you know

we say three to six months but that three month but what you guys may be able to do in >> you know I don't know >> yeah if you're saving you sock away 10 grand a month once all of those payments are gone even the car payments you'll save that emergency fund a couple of months max >> so I I would plan uh for next summer

>> it's a 2027 trip make it a big one >> a May go in May >> what's your household >> income what um well I mean it's

obviously varies because of sales But

before taxes, like 25 to 30k a month.

>> Fantastic. >> Yep. That's great. >> Making a couple hundred grand, you can go on a real nice trip. And so use that.

Dangle this carrot. >> How do we know the budget for that?

>> I mean, if you pay cash, you're not spending 50 grand and you got other financial goals, so let's make it reasonable, but also you guys make 360 grand. It's okay to go on a trip that costs 5 or 10 grand. >> Yeah. Oh, easily.

Yeah, for sure. Just save up and pay cash for it. And and it's kind of the mentality of if that if you put that money, you know, on a table and burned it and it was just all gone, like would it emotionally affect you?

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Up next is Brad in Atlanta. Hi Brad.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hello. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Well, I um of course me and my wife and

daughter, we live in our home and whatnot. We have a mortgage. Uh we also

have 33,000 in secured and unsecured

debt. Uh let's see. I think my wife is

looks like this to get a lawsuit unfortunately over some medical bills.

Um, >> is the lawsuit already happening?

>> No, not yet. It's it's under the collections, you know, it's under the phone calls and that kind of thing.

>> Okay. When when you're done with this call, would you please reach out to our friends at Guardian Litigation cuz they help with exact situations like this and fight for you. They know your consumer rights. They'll help you settle the debts. So, please go to guardianlit.com after this. Reach out to them. I think they can help you through this process.

>> Oh, okay. All right. Thank you so much.

Appreciate that. Okay. So, walk us through this. You got 33K in debt and you guys can't make the payments.

>> Uh, we are everything, you know, between the light bill, the mortgage, we have a second mortgage as well. And then all of the other debt, everything comes, you know, at different times and it's just they're all scattered. So, we're not able to save a dime basically. It's like

we're we're paycheck to paycheck. But um

in 13 I was diagnosed with cancer.

>> And so between I've I've survived cancer

four different times, believe it or not.

>> And uh so actually I'm having my wife's kidney with me.

>> Um but nevertheless, that's where the

secured and unsecured debt because my wife takes care of the bills every month, blah blah blah. But then through 13 through 16, on work, off work, on work, back at work, you know, that kind of thing. It's like >> a very variable income. >> So Brad, right now, what are you guys bringing in a month?

>> Um, let's see. A month is for me

roughly 4,000.

>> Okay. >> Uh, and hers in a month is roughly,

let's just go with 2,000, maybe 21,00.

>> Okay. And did you say you have a son or a child living with you all?

>> I have a 18year-old daughter.

>> A daughter. Okay. And she's 18 living there too. Okay. Okay. Gotcha.

>> Yeah. She And of course she's she's wanting to move out so bad she can't stand it. >> Oh, sweet girl. Yes. Well, um, so one

thing that you can possibly do, Brad, is when these bills hit, depending on which part of the month, you may be able to call um, the companies, even utilities,

like that kind of thing, and see if you can get a restructured schedule to at

least get to this point where when a paycheck hits, you have enough in the account to pay, right? Because if you have nothing, all the bills hit and one paycheck doesn't cover all the bills, then you're stuck, right? Um, so there there's one option, yes, to kind of reschedu when those payments hit and see if they can help you do that. Um and then the other option is for a few

months even just taking a side hustle you or your wife. Um, and you know,

putting some money aside, even you know, 3 4,000 if you can, and letting that be

the bucket at which you pull money just to get you guys afloat because yeah, we don't want you to get behind on anything obviously. And so there either has to be a pullback on expenses or andor an up on income if you're not

able to kind of get to this point of scheduling. But even if they're scheduled the right way, the fact you guys can't save in general tells me when end of the equation has to change. Yeah, it's a good band-aid to get your head above water, but there's there may be some deeper issues here with these payments. So, what is the mortgage payment?

>> Uh, the mortgage payment is

uh 850. I think it's 850 a month. Then

you have the second mortgage, which is another 250 or so. 250, 275.

>> Okay. And then on top of that, you got the 33,000 in consumer debt.

>> Yeah, that is insecured and unsecured.

my truck's on it and so forth.

>> What's the truck worth and what do you owe? >> Uh oh, shoot. Um I haven't really looked

to see what the truck is worth. Um it's

probably rubbed 5,000, I guess. Oh, >> okay. So, it's not worth much. What do you owe on it?

>> Nothing. Nothing. It's just in a secured debt. I mean, I did have the title until we had to get a loan to specify >> Oh, you did like a title loan against it.

>> Almost. It's like a security finance which they take titles and things like that for loan >> I've seen those look like old Pizza Huts. They they'll give you a check and they'll still they'll still hang on to your title until you pay it back. Right.

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. How much is on that debt? Cuz I don't want you to lose your truck.

>> Uh that one is 19,000. That's actually the bulk of the secured debt is 19

grand. >> Man, >> I'm not sure what the payoff is. It's probably a little less, but but yeah.

>> Yeah. And what's the interest rate on that? Do you know?

>> I don't I'm don't I'm sure I'm assuming it's very high as always.

>> Yeah, usually those.

>> Okay. So, what are the total payments just to make the minimum payments on all the debts in your life right now? What does that cost you a month?

>> Uh I'm sorry, that one went over my head.

>> That's okay. I'm I'm trying to figure out your $6,000 coming in. You got a little over about,00 going towards these mortgages and that should still leave a good chunk to pay the minimums on the debts, cover your bills, put food on the table. So, we're trying to figure out where the rest of the money is going to see if there's room or not. >> Yeah. $4,900.

Where is that going, do you think, throughout the month?

>> Right. Yeah, you you would think so. I mean, that's what I was think, you know, that's what I would think, too. But like I say, it's it's like paycheck comes and

then it's got to go out. It's got to go out to say, you know, one of the debts

and then um maybe car insurance or

something. I'm just using some >> game examples. For sure. Yeah. Life is going to happen. Are you guys on a pretty detailed budget, Brad? Do you know exactly where your money's going for? >> No, ma'am. Unfortunately, not by Yeah, I

think that may really help you, Brad. If you hang on the line, Christian's going to pick up because I think the budget could be the silver bullet in this whole situation because you got $4,900 left.

And yes, you will get payments that hit, but I also, it's amazing how much money can leave if you don't have a plan for it. And so, I do wonder if you guys are tighten up and actually say, "Hey, let's let's be on a really strict budget and we're like not going out to eat. We're not spending anything on anything we don't need. It is just going to go to these things.

And I wonder how much will be left in margin at the at the bottom of that every dollar budget. So >> yeah, because I see on the screen here it says, should I sell my house to pay off the debt? I would not do that until we've tried everything else. We've solved the behaviors.

We try to get out of this debt. The selling the house is like a lastditch effort. The house isn't the problem mortgage wise. If your mortgage was three grand out of your six, I'd say, "Yeah, this thing probably needs to get sold." So, your homework is to create that budget.

Sit down with your wife tonight. Put down the next paychecks. That's the income. Write down all the expenses.

Each one should have a line item so you fully understand. And then every dollar will tell you, "Hey, you're above. You're below. You're in the red.

You're in the clear." That should show you if you did things this way, here's what would happen. So, there's your homework.

You can actually see where the bills fall, when you're going to run out of money. And your second piece of homework is to get in touch with Guardian Litigation. You can go to guardianit.com/rramsey

and they will fight for you because they are huge fans of Ramsay. They want to see our fans win and they hate seeing people get hassled and harassed by creditors and law >> being in litigation. Yeah. I mean, and not knowing, you know, your rights and everything. And so it is really >> when you're already overwhelmed and so stressed and then you get served.

>> Yes. >> From a credit card company. >> Totally. Y and a medical your medical bill. So, it's super stressful. We're hoping the best for you guys to climb out of this thing and keep the house.

That's the goal if we can. >> For sure. Yeah. Cuz again, the house payment is is well within that 25% of your take-home pay.

So, you're you're good there. And you don't want to lose such a big asset, you know, to $33,000 of basically consumer debt. Um, but you guys, the budget is everything. Like, it is it's amazing to me.

And Brad's not the only one, but how many people call in and they just don't really know. and and you don't feel like you're necessarily being terrible with money, but you don't realize how much money is leaving that you don't need. >> It's actually encouraging. At first, you're you think it's scary to put it all down and then you look at it and go, "Oh, there's the actual facts.

We make $6,000. Let's get control of this thing." >> Yeah. And if you're not doing a budget, just go back to your bank statement last last month, you know, use March as an example, and add up how many how much you spent on restaurants. >> Oh, yeah.

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right, let's go to Gary in Dallas, Texas. Hi Gary, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. >> Hello. Welcome. Welcome. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Just looking for some advice. Um, so for the past uh 12 months

or so, my wife and I, we we've kind of had a 24-month plan of uh moving out of

our house here and closer to some

family. and uh we would be we would be

buying a house that's probably about twice as expensive as the one we currently have. Um my what has just

become an issue with this decision

is I'm pretty sure in two to three years

after we make the move, we will not be able to afford it. Um I don't think

we're going to have the income for it in that amount of time. >> Okay. Um, is it the area you're moving that's making it more expensive or the type of house that you guys are wanting to move into?

>> It's it's a little bit of both. You know, we're looking for uh, you know, under normal circumstances, it would be okay. But, um, I mean, the know the reason I don't think we're going to be able to afford it is, you know, the the doctors are saying if things continue with her, you know, she's she'll probably be dead in three years. >> Oh my goodness. >> And she's she's the sole income earner.

>> Oh my gosh. Your wife. So, she's sick.

>> She's an alcoholic.

>> Oh, wow. >> Oh, wow. Gary. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Oh, man. >> So, what what's causing the urgency here? It sounds like we shouldn't be making any big life plans, financial decisions. >> Well, you're wanting to move close to family because of her.

>> Yeah. Uh, yeah. We live in the middle of the country. We have no family within about 1500 miles.

>> Okay. Um, I need my son near some

stability and some and some family. I mean, honestly, I >> I got to get him out of the house sometimes away from her. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Can you guys rent out there for a while?

>> Yeah, we could.

>> That solves this problem temporarily until we figure out what's going on with the finances. And it's and it's, you know, Gary, it's really um

it's really really hard um to make, you

know, financial decisions and big moves when you have someone who has a level of

addiction that it sounds like she has.

And and I'm I'm assuming I know the answer to this, but I'm just wondering, you know, has she has she been in any level of recovery? Has she gone to any kind of treatment >> um years ago that she escaped from as uh

as a 20-year-old? We've had multiple interventions. She's been hospitalized for alcohol three times since we met.

Yeah. >> Uh there's been some we just got done with cancer treatment that was caused from the drinking and uh >> you know, you know, two months after treatment ended, we're already back to lying and hiding alcohol. And I >> Yeah. I mean, I'm I'm not stupid and I know what's going on. I see it. >> Right. And you're staying You're staying

in the marriage, correct? I mean, this is >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And and your son, you guys are in from like a physical safety. Okay.

>> Right. Oh, yeah. >> Okay. But it's just the instability that she brings. And when you say that he needs to get out of the house, some because I I would understand wanting to have a support system, which I think is wise for you guys. So, um, so we'll try

to kind of talk through it to balance not making any unwise big decisions with

money that could be, to your point, um,

disastrous in the future, let alone having to deal with what could be coming for the next couple of years for you all if she can't, um, if she can't stop. So,

um, so the area you guys would be moving

to, it is more expensive because you said you guys are in the country. Um, so it will be on average, do you know how

much from a housing perspective you can sell your home for for where you guys are now?

>> Yeah. You know, we we owe 280 on something we could probably get 375 for.

>> Okay.

So, you'll have, you know, Yeah.

>> You'll walk away with probably 80 grand or so. >> Say less than 100. Okay. and the homes in the area that you guys would be wanting to be. Do you know on average what those are costing?

>> The stuff that we've been looking at for the past 12 months and we've had we've been out there twice uh viewing homes.

Um >> we we actually had made two offers before the cancer diagnosis and we put everything on hold >> uh to deal with that. Um so we're looking at stuff in the 700s.

Um, my wife makes about 250 300,000 a

year. >> How is she able to keep a job?

>> She she works from home.

>> Okay. And you're not working?

>> Correct. I I've never made more than $50,000 in my life.

>> Okay. >> What are you doing for work? >> Yearly. >> He's not working.

>> I'm a stay father right now.

>> What were you doing before that making around 50?

>> Uh, I was in management uh position with a nonprofit. How old your son?

>> Three. >> Okay. Okay. Because what I'm wor what I'm worried about, Gary, just in general, not only the housing situation, but if something were to I mean, if the doctors are correct and everything stays course, you are going to have to find

work and, you know, obviously support you and your son. And I'm just wondering getting some level of experience under your belt >> before that happens. Yes. And it may be it may not be obviously tomorrow, but in the next probably 12 months, I would be looking and seeing, hey, what what could I be doing just to be getting some some

experience, you know, to to move into a position if you need to.

>> Um, >> I I have been looking at some jobs just to get something on my resume. I worked in, you know, five years, >> right? >> You know, the problem the problem is I have to work around uh

I don't feel comfortable leaving my son alone with my wife. Sure. Yeah. Sure.

>> So, um >> well that I wonder if there's level of family support when you guys make this move. >> Um >> I mean I mean my incredible support. My my parents will be an hour away. My sister, three sets of cousins, three sets of aunts and uncle. >> Now, why are y'all moving an hour from your parents? I thought you were moving to be close to family. >> They live in the m They live in the mountains um in the area that we're looking at. You know, pretty far away from the metropolitan area.

>> So, it doesn't really solve the problem then, does it? If it they're still far away, you're not gonna have >> Well, an hour an hour is better than 22.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, I mean, I have zero problem making an hour dry, you know. Not nor do they, >> right? No, I hear you totally. Yeah.

So, I wouldn't I I'm I'm a little bit with George. I don't know if I would make a financial move, a big purchase like a home right now. There's a lot of instability going on.

>> and then you guys could look up in a year year and a half and see where you're at with her health and your job

situation family situation all of it but I wouldn't tie myself down to a big purchase It's like a home right now. If I were you guys, I think the move is smart and I would want that probably if I was in your case. Um, >> yeah. Personally, I would not buy a home

until she is sober >> because it just put there's too much risk that her income is floating this entire thing. And if one thing happens, you got a $600,000 mortgage with no income or even a $50,000 income. And now you're going to be facing foreclosure or a short sale. And so it just it's too much stress with the stress you guys already have.

I mean, it's Yeah. I mean, I I mean, to be clear, you know, um my parents, they are going to be putting either 100 $250,000 towards the down payment.

>> So, there's all their security net.

>> Yeah, it's a gift. >> And would they just cover rent for a year in the meantime as you guys kind of find your footing?

>> If if I asked, they certainly would.

>> I might use part of that to say, "Hey, cover rent. We just got to figure out our life." And then you'll know a whole lot more a year from now if things are going to get better or if they're going to get worse.

>> Yeah. Then I think the challenge is going to be convincing her to rent as opposed to buy. Um >> Well, I don't think she's she's created that option for her. I mean, I think this is where you really have to step in, Gary. And I hate to say it, she kind of loses a vote when she chooses not to be well for her her husband and her son.

And so, um, I don't know what that conversation looks like in the midst of your marriage, but I would not,

you're putting a boundary up with someone that doesn't have boundaries, but I would not purchase a home if I were you, Gary.

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Up next we have Peter in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi Peter.

>> Hey Rachel. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, absolutely. How you doing today?

>> Fantastic. And I hope you are too.

>> Great. We are. We're doing good. How can we help?

>> So, I'm wanting to purchase my first luxury watch. And financially, I believe we're in a position to do it, but I can't. I grew up with a scarcity mindset. And it's really hard for me, even though I have the money allocated in my budget to pull the trigger on it.

I just can't get over actually doing it even though I actually want it. And I wanted to kind of get an objective opinion, you know, to see if I'm really am in a good place to do it. All right.

>> Any guy who used the word allocated would have a hard time pulling the trigger on a big spend.

>> Yeah, >> I love it. >> Well, George loves a good watch and I'm a spender. So, you called it a good time. >> I want to know what watch this is. People want to know. >> Yeah. Yeah. What's the watch and how much you going to spend on it?

>> It's going to be an Omega Planet Ocean and I'm looking to spend right around 9,000 on it after tax.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> All right. Uh Peter, how much do you make a year?

So, I make my base is 102, but I normally make closer to 140 and my wife makes 85. >> Oh, nice. Okay. You guys have any debt?

>> No debt. Baby step six.

>> Nice. Okay. And so, you guys have been talking about this purchase and you have the money for it. >> It's sitting there in the watch savings fund is what you're telling me.

>> Correct. It It's in a separate pile. It is ready to go. We've been saving for about six months for it. My wife is 100%

on board, wants me to get it. Uh, and it's just I struggle with the emotional, you know, I know I could use that money. I could pay my mortgage off quicker.

>> Again, I came up with not a whole lot.

So, I want to >> Well, let's play this out. Peter, let's say you got off this call and you hit add to cart and you purchase this watch and it shows up. How are you going to feel? >> Amazing.

>> Okay. You will you feel guilty at all when it shows up and you go, "Oh gosh, what did I do?" I I probably not. I think once I put it on, it's all going to go away, but it's it's getting to pulling the trigger on it. >> Yeah.

Can I ask why do you want the watch?

something? I'm just curious. >> So, I've I've been scuba diving for about a decade now, and it's it's a watch that's been famous in the dive community for a long time. I think it looks great in the boardroom. It looks great, you know, when you're diving.

>> You're talking to a lady who is scuba certified. >> I am a certified scuba diver, Peter.

boy. She understands that.

>> I understand the luxury watch market when I go in the >> pool eyeball forever and you know it's

not like it's an impulse overnight. I probably wanted this watch for >> y >> probably solid eight years and it's just been dreaming but I know that I haven't been there yet. >> Okay. Yeah. Okay. So here's here's like my categories. Financial, it's a check

and then you go over to the emotional side. And that's why I asked why the

watch, what is it? And there were some green lights for me, Peter. Honestly, the fact that there is a a reason for it

like in his mind, right? Like he's been in a >> The motive is not I want to impress my friends. >> Yes. >> Or I need to like prove to myself that I made it.

>> Yes. It's been this thing in this niche part of life that you love. You've been thinking about it for eight years. It's not an impulse purchase.

um like all of those things because you can have the money and then the motivation behind buying a nice, you know, purchase that could be a purse for a woman, a watch for a guy, whatever it is, you know, could come out of a place that you're like trying to scratch this itch inside of you and then you get it and then you're not satisfied because it came from the wrong motive and then you're chasing the next thing, the next thing and it just becomes like this whole world of just consumerism.

But I don't feel like that's you, Peter.

I feel like there's a there's a reason for it. And yeah, and you've had this and the fact that it's been eight years since he's been wanting it. >> It's time. I think your wife is sick of you talking about it.

Honestly, that's why she's like, "Get it. Go for it." >> I can guarantee you're right. Tired of hearing about it. >> And then play it out.

Is Is Peter 10 years from now going to go, "Well, that watch did us in. Shouldn't have done that.

>> Wow. You're going legacy piece, George.

A legacy will help me justify anything.

>> Boom. >> It'll be a legacy piece. >> And I'll tell you this, Peter. I am not a watch guy, but Rachel's saying that because I'm wearing a nice watch. And it was handed down to me from my wife's now deceased grandfather. And so truly, it is legacy. >> And it's a Rolex. >> Yeah. It's a nice from the '9s. It's an oyster date just oyster quartz from the

90s. And it like it makes me feel like it it makes me feel closer to something bigger than myself, if that makes sense.

>> Wow. And I don't feel like it's a flex because if you know me, you know I'm like Mr. Frugal. So no one's like, "Whoa, look at old >> smooth talking camel over there." >> Doing well, George. >> Peter, what's your net worth?

>> Uh, so we've got we still owe 140 on our

house. The house is worth uh probably

350ish. Um, and then we've got 83,000

between our retirement accounts.

>> Okay. So you're >> and I'm 28. My or 29, my wife is 28.

We're towards the beginning of saving, but I think we'll be just fine.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're on your way to baby steps millionaire. I think you'll get there in your 30s without any issue. And this watch is not going to be the make or break.

So, >> I would love for you like right now just to get online, buy it. You know, that'd be fun. >> It's always the people who we want to give green lights to have the hardest time. And it's the people who should not do it who are like, I'm gonna do it anyways.

>> I'm gonna do it anyways. H we're excited for you, Peter. Enjoy the watch. Enjoy the watch.

All right. Let's go to John in Springfield. Hi, John. welcome to the show.

>> Hi there.

>> Absolutely. How can we help? >> Um, real quick, I I got an unpaid medical debt and I wanted your opinion.

So, in the summer of 2023, I had the uh necessity to take a trip in

an ambulance to the ER.

>> Um, I'm I'm single, live alone, so I you know, I'd rather cut off my leg than do that, but that's where I was. and and so

so you know time passes I I get the bill

for the ER and you know that's not cheap. I pay it. Um a little while later

I get a bill for the ambulance and it's $1695.

>> Okay. >> Take me the two miles over there and I get that. >> Um so you know what caught my attention

is my health insurer paid nothing. They

paid zero dollars of that and I was

confused. Um, so

when I when I called them, what they told me is that the ambulance service is out of my network.

>> Shoot. >> And so, so I think that's ridiculous. Yeah.

>> I think you know what am I supposed to do when I call 911 is I'm going to talk to them about the process. Should it take take an hour Google for the options that are in network and then hopefully you're still alive. >> So do you owe the 1,600 then still John?

>> So yeah. So you know I have the money.

It's never you know I've never had a bad debt. >> Yeah. >> I just I I'm being pigheaded about this one. So this was you know two years ago.

>> Yeah. >> You know almost three now. Um it went to collections. >> It's not a very aggressive collection agency. They sent me a couple letters.

Um they called me twice and left voicemail. You're not paying >> I haven't heard from him in 8 months probably. >> But you're not paying out of question.

>> You're out of like strife. You're just like, I just don't think that this is fair.

>> Exactly. I don't know what to do. If I should just try to settle with them and then come up with a number that makes sense to me, >> if I should just pay them and get get it over with and forget about it or >> Well, I think there's an emotional tax that you have been paying because it's been in your mind. Um, and even though

it feels unfair or, you know, it's like

taking advantage of a situation is, you know what I mean? Like there's a lot of feelings about insurance and how all this works, which we agree. You know, there's parts of it I'm like, absolutely. Um, but the amount of

emotions that you've put into this may not be worth 1,600. And so, there is a part of me that says, "Yes, see if they'll settle just for the game of it, the fact that it's in collections now." >> Um, you may be able to pay half of it and just say, "Thanks for the ambulance ride." and and we're done. You know what I mean? But I would I would look to move on with my life, especially since you have the money and it's 1,600 bucks, you know, >> right?

>> Have you fought the insurance company already? Did you play that game?

Yeah. >> Yeah. Because it was dispatched by 911, right? I'm sorry. >> It was dispatched by 911 when you called. >> Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. It wasn't like you reached out to this specific serer. And so I would use that pull your explanation of benefits and you can try one more time to fight it and have them verify that they processed the claim correctly. There was no billing errors, all of that stuff.

But you got to become an expert cuz a lot of incompetent people out there who are just not really wanting to do the most when it comes to solving your problem. >> For sure. and 1,600 bucks. Sometimes it's just worth having the piece. >> What's your piece cost at this point? >> That's it. That's it. And so you got to kind of put a price on that too, John.

So I'm I'm glad you're you're okay that you you know you made it through and everything, but I understand how frustrating some of that stuff is for sure.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz with George Camel and we are taking your calls at88255225.

All right, up next we have Adrian in uh

Mesa, Arizona. Hey, welcome to the show.

>> Hello. >> Hello. How can we help today?

>> Um so I'm a little nervous. Sorry. I I've been direct I've been debating to call. I'm not used to this. So um >> we won the debate. That's good.

Yeah. Um, so I been pretty good about my

finances for a while. Not saying I'm the greatest. Obviously, I made bad choices.

I have been bankrupt twice and I made a bad choice. I got a GN position and I run a restaurant and I just came upon some money and I was making really good money during COVID and I was bought a house. I got an inherent. I did some, you know, I had money in the bank about, you know, and so forth. And then I went and wanted to upgrade my truck which during the time I was okay. And then um

you know I bought this truck at 52,000

and I make about 65,000 before bonuses.

Now before I was making 75 a little more higher. My husband he makes about 40 but we keep our finances separate. I know that's you know but we just don't do it that way. Um, the question I have, the main question is is I don't know what to do with the truck because I am living paycheck to paycheck. I literally pay $945 for a car

payment. I pay $310

for car insurance and probably around about $200 every four days for gas. Um,

I was living a life before my truck. You know, I was not struggling as much. We were able to have food on there and, you know, um, and now I'm just don't know what to do. But I'm upside down in my truck about the the car they sold me. It

was it was a whole mess up deal. They sold it to me for 50 with a rollover from a previous car they gave me that had a bunch of problems. They're like, "Oh, no. We'll get you out of this. We'll put you in this." And they rolled over that truck onto this truck. And before I know it, I'm 51,000 and

I they're only going to give me like 30 31 for the car. And I had a trade 22.

for trade in value. That's correct. On the streets, it will not sell because it is a lemon truck, >> but they'll take it hard.

>> They'll take it for someone will, but I can't get a loan because I don't have no credit. I'm not good. My credit is great. I mean, but I can't seem to get anyone to qualify me for even a small loan to cover the difference because I've tried that with you guys mentioned before, but no one will take me to cover the difference. And I got to come up with like at least probably like 20,000

I would say. >> Yeah. >> Um >> what other debt do you have? >> You know, and >> I have five uh 4500 and just, you know,

a credit card and a personal loan to put some concrete down in my backyard. Um

and that's it. That's all I owe. You know, I don't owe nothing else. >> No, that's plenty. I don't think we need anymore. You're right. That is plenty enough. >> What is your Does your husband have debt as well?

>> Yes. That's why we're separate. Um he has back child support that he owes. Um we've been current, you know, we've been up to date on it. He pays every month.

We just he did not grow up financially

smart. His train of thought is we're going to die owing people. I don't know.

His train of thought is completely different than mine on that. I just

he just thinks that, you know, let's not stress about it. You know, if what happens happens and I'm like, uh I don't know what to do. You know, like we're not going to have groceries. Like I'm literally I did $1,000 in a month and I at least take $200 out of it each time we get paid >> and to do what? Um I >> to to to live on to do groceries in the house, you know, cuz I don't have it.

>> Does he contribute? Does he contribute to the household?

>> Uh yeah, he does. We we pretty much split, but he got kind of hooked on for a while he was hooked on gambling. I got him off of that. Thank God. And then um he turned around and he got um hooked on these like payday things like, "Oh, let's pay in advance, you know, um let's buy groceries on advance. let's do this one advance. And at first I was like, okay, cuz at least you're helping me cuz I'm not the only one contributing. And now he can't even do keep up with those.

And I'm like, oh my god. >> Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. Okay. So, yeah, right now I would not recommend um putting your money together. I think from a from a marriage standpoint, you guys are on not only different pages with money, but it sounds like how you view life and so much. So, I I would just have in the back of your head like, hey, we need to be doing some marriage work. We need to be learning how to create goals together, have a level of

synchronization of of what we want life to be and all of that because he shouldn't be a deterrent for you in your life, right? He should be >> a help a helpful person and same with you to him. And so making healing that end, I think will help with some of the money stuff. But you called for the car.

So um so yeah, if you said your credit's great, I would check a local credit union. Don't go to a big bank and see if anyone local can can help you with this.

And if not, Adrian, then you're going to have to work extra. You're gonna have to work nights and weekends um to save up

to get um yeah, to get the difference of this truck if you if you can't uh get the loan. But getting out of this is one part of the equation, but it but honestly, you just it all sounds a little chaotic. And so I think having some uh direction is going to be huge.

So, doing a monthly budget, stop going into debt, cut up the credit cards, have this no no more debt for the rest of my life policy in your mind, um, and start working your way out of credit card debt, and then attack the car next. And hopefully once you've been paying off this credit cards, um, you know, that could, I don't know, get you in a different place. >> Yeah. I don't want to see you go to a third bankruptcy.

The third time is not the charm in this case. And so, you got to go, this is it. I'm not going to go through this again. And you know, even with your husband the way he is, you're going to have to climb out of this on your own income at this point.

And that is going to take let's get every bonus we can get.

>> Yeah, that's what's um sometimes difficult about a chaotic situation, George, is that when there when there's such high emotion and high fear and seeing like, oh my gosh, I don't want to fall off this cliff. Sometimes even in that desperation, we make bad money decisions, right? You're not thinking clearly. >> That's right.

That's right. Yep. Um, so yeah. So if you hold on the line, Adrian, Christian's gonna pick up and let's get you George's book, Breaking Free from Broke.

>> It's a great title for for the situation. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. That's why we did it.

Here's what you're going to what's going to happen for sure. And we can get you the audiobook version as well if you're busy, you know, managing a restaurant.

Hard to find time to a quiet place to read. >> Yes. But yeah, listen to that. And then we'll even throw in every dollar for a year. So, we'll get you a code to that.

>> Love that >> to start budgeting your income. And again, I want um I would love to see some some synergy with your husband and I know his mindset is one way. Um and

you can't control him. Um and I would say I don't think you're the one that got him out of the gambling, you know what I mean, situation. I think he did it. Like there's something in him that could be changing too, which is wonderful. >> Yeah. I mean, looking at these numbers, $1,000 car payment, three over 300 for the insurance. I did the math. She's spending over 1,500 bucks a month just in gas for that truck.

>> So, you've got to think through this. She said, honestly, well, at the time, I could handle it. And so, the whole point of this show is that there's going to be a time where life's going to happen and you need to get all of the risk out of your life and all of the peace you can get. And that's why we tell people be debtree.

Even though it's conservative and not a cool thing to say to save up and pay for the C car you can afford, but it's because you don't know what's going to happen. You don't know what's going to happen to your income and to your health and to your spouse.

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All right, let's go to New York City and we have Jake on the line. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my call, guys.

>> Absolutely.

>> Um, so I'm just calling because I'm in a situation where um I make about $50,000

a year after taxes, but um I took a 401k

loan for about $25,000 that um I defaulted on when I got laid off. And uh I currently owe about

$12,000 in taxes. So my question is is

how I go about if I should tackle the

401k loan off because that's uh has

interest occurring or tackle the IRS

debt. Um and I owe about $2,000 in credit card debt as as well.

>> Okay. So the taxes are 12K. How much did you say the the 401k loan was for?

>> 25,000. >> 25,000. Okay. What you >> what did you take out the 401k loan for?

>> Uh I was currently uh moving out and uh

when I took it out. So I was just doing it as like a buffer, but uh I did that

when I was about 22 or 23. So I just

made bad choices with the money. Uh, I

spent some of it on a vacation, uh, gambling with friends and the rest I

just spent on bills, sadly.

>> Okay. Did you just stop making payments on the 401k loan?

>> Uh, when I got laid off, that's uh what

happened. I'm in a union, but I I was uh I was only in the union for about one to two years when I uh took out the loan.

And uh I didn't realize that if I how

short of a time I they were going to default me on the loan.

>> Got it. So you were laid off and then it was it came due within 30 days or something and you couldn't pay it in time. >> Yeah, about like 90 days six like a couple months. >> Okay. So that became uh likely an early distribution. So you don't owe money on that now. It's just going to be taxed heavily.

>> Yes. I I that's uh what increased my tax

bill from about uh like 6,000 up to the

12,000 now that I just filed my taxes.

>> So really we're dealing with two grand in credit card debt and another 12 in

IRS debt.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So you would tackle the IRS debt first. You want to get them off your back because they can actually destroy your life versus this cute little credit card company who can just be like pay us. So, I would work on knocking that out first. The bigger issue to me is getting out of the cycle because I don't know that you have the money to pay this off in a reasonable amount of time.

>> Yes. No. And I not the uh I would have to call the IRS to make a like a payment plan. >> Yeah. And I would just pay it off as aggressively as possible. Can you work extra?

Um, my union doesn't really offer that much overtime, but I could pick up like another job or side jobs. And you may, Jake, another option with this kind of thing since it's 12 grand is you may be able to go get a loan for it for 12 grand and just pay off the IRS and then deal with the credit union or bank that you get the loan from. >> Honestly, sounds crazy, but sometimes they're better to deal with than the IRS than having a payment plan. So, there's there's just a lot of power the IRS can have.

Um and so kind of getting them out of your life >> unlimited power. >> Yes. So getting them out of your life I think is feels more peaceful to me.

that is an option depending on how your credit is um to go get a loan and just pay it off and then tackle that loan.

>> Okay. And you guys would say don't focus on uh paying back the 25,000 to my 401k.

>> Well, what that's what I'm saying is there's no longer payback. It's over. It was counted as an early distribution.

So, you took it out and now it just won't be back in your 401k.

>> Well, the only reason is um if I if I

was to pay back the $25,000 and cure the defaulted loan, they would uh give me um

the rights to access capital again, but if I don't ever pay that back, let's say for like the next 30 years in my career, I'll never be able to access um

using my 401k as like a loan option again. >> Yeah. We don't want to go back into debt, though. So, considering it's not an option, it's fine. And you're not with that company anymore, correct?

>> No, I'm I'm just laid off um from that

specific shop, but the union is uh all

five burrows of New York City. So, >> Okay. So, you could get back once you're completely debtree and you want to go back and start funding that 401k. It would be the same 401k is what you're saying.

>> Okay. No, I'm asking. Is that Is that right with the union and how it works with the five bureaus that you mentioned?

>> What was your question? I'm sorry. >> Sorry. Will that be the same 401k?

You're laid off now from a certain shop, but you said you will get back in and start working again within the union.

So, will that mean that that's the that's the same 401k?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay, perfect. Okay. cuz I was going to say usually when you leave a job or you quit or are laid off, you would roll your 401k just into a traditional IRA

and then you move on with your life. But since you'll be plugging back into it, >> you can't unlock the the ability to invest until it's paid back.

>> I can invest. Uh I was just thinking like you guys said is maybe it's a bad habit to even consider like borrowing against my 401k. >> It is cuz look where it got you Jake.

Look where we are right now. Never never ever ever sound you don't sound happy about it. Do you want to be back in this position again?

>> No, you guys are right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Debt is not a tool, Jake.

It's not a tool. Peace. Solving for peace. Our friend Dr. John Zaloney says this is so key with money. You can try to play the games, do X, Y, and Z, but honestly, Jake, to become wealthy and to actually have options in your life that money can provide, it's going to be you.

It's going to be you working hard, you staying out of debt, and instead of paying payments, you're investing, you're saving, you know, you're being wise with your money. That's how you build wealth over time. If you keep trying to play this debt game by I'm going to loan money here and loan money there, you're going to be broke your whole life and you're going to be paying $12,000 in freaking taxes. So, um, so

no, >> think about it. You got 14K in debt to pay. If you can scrape together a thousand, a little over a,000 bucks a month, you're done in a year. And then decide, I'm never going to go back in debt again. And the way you do that is with an emergency fund and a budget because that becomes your never go into debt again emergency uh account so that you're not needing to borrow from other people. >> Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Jake, what kind of what kind of uh work do you do?

>> Um I'm u in the electricians union, but

I'm not an electrician yet. I'm just uh >> Okay. >> Pretty much. Yeah. Have you looked in um

the private sector in that because a lot of electricians are making a ton of money and you might be making more with the union. I'm not sure, but have you have you looked into that?

>> Well, right now I'm uh yes, I have thought about that, but um right now I'm uh just trying to stay with the union until I get um my journeyman uh

>> okay card because Yeah. Right. Yeah.

That's the main reason I >> will you get a pay bump at that point?

Yes, I would get a pay bump >> to what?

>> They make about uh $56 an hour here in

New York City. >> Oh, that's great. All right. So, you'd be clearing six figures a year. That's great. And how long will that take to get the dreaming card?

>> Um it takes about five years. Right now, I make um about $40 an hour, but I haven't

started the apprenticeship. I'm just I was just promised that like, hey, you stay on the job and we'll upgrade you without the five years of uh the apprenticeship because that's about making minimum wage in New York City.

>> Well, you're making over 80 grand right now. So, you should be able to clear 14 grand real quick if you just get really focused, which means no spending, no vacations. You're basically like that was old Jake. New Jake spends nothing on anything unless it's food, shelter, utilities, transportation, insurance, and his debt payments.

>> Yes. Yep. >> If you get laser focused, you'll be in a very different place a year from now, even six months from now.

>> Yep. That's right. Yeah. It's a It's amazing what can happen when you don't give debt an option in your mind.

Like, if you really do go as hardcore as we talk about, and make it a black or white issue with your money and just say, "I'm not borrowing money." >> What that forces you to do is forces you to look at other options.

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All right, let's go to Stacy in Billings, Montana. Hi, Stacy. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. How can we help up today?

>> Um, so hopefully I'm not too long-winded for you guys, but um I'm calling for kind of some relationship help as long as financial advice. Um, my husband of

five years unfortunately has a history of infidelity where he talks to other women online. Well, or he's I've caught

him with his ex-girlfriend, things like that, talking to them inappropriately.

>> Sorry. >> Yeah. And so things were going well though. Um, and then uh sorry, he also has a little bit history of alcohol, but that has

gotten better. Oh, I'm sorry. But things

are going well. Uh, and we're expecting a baby at the end of the summer.

>> Oh, wow. >> And because we're expecting a baby, we

bought a bigger home and we literally

just moved into it a couple weeks ago.

Um, and uh, I still have the old home

that's under my name and my dad's name

because I got that prior to um,

marrying my husband. Um, but unfortunately on Friday I found an

explicit photo uh on my husband's

computer. >> Oh my gosh. >> Like that he recently received from his ex-girlfriend. >> Oh, Stacy, I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. So, >> um, it opens up old wounds. Uh, >> of course it does. >> Did y'all go to marriage? Did y'all go to therapy at all for all of this? Has he done any work on himself?

We did some uh therapy in the past, but

um it's all online. It's so hard to get like someone a couple therapy together.

Um and he kind of just says, "I'm going to get better. I'm going to get better." But >> all Yeah. No, he's s there's something Yeah. there's something off going on um that he needs healing from and only he can do that because it's a repeated pattern and and it will continue you

know like self-will doesn't just get you out of stuff like this I mean he has some deep work that he has to do if he chooses to um >> has this become physical in person in any way? >> No, I don't think so. like and I I

believe him and I don't think he would ever physically cheat on me. It's just the emotional cheating over time.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's still the same pain.

The infidelity is still um still feels very real. >> Okay. So, how can we help? What's what's your main question?

>> So, sorry. So, then going to financial advice, we just moved into this new home, higher interest rate, bigger home,

bigger loan. I um the next day after

finding out about this, sorry, this is all kind of new soaky talking about it.

>> Take your time. You're good.

>> Um the next day I got all cash offer on the old home. Um but I was sitting there

in the big home alone by myself and I was like there's no way I could stay in this house if things don't go well. I'm a single mom. Like this home is more expensive. Bigger lot to take care of,

things like that. >> Yeah.

Um, so I kind of had like a conference

call with my parents because they kind of know about the history and my realtor

and I said let's I don't want to sell the old home. I think I I guess my question is and I hope I'm making the right decision. Go back into the old home. Less interest rate, less monthly

payment, less loan. Sell sell the new

home. I just have a lot of guilt.

>> Okay. Yes. obviously spent all this money like and I'm going to have realtor fees and things like that and >> Sure. Okay. Tell me this. Um Stacey, how much is the new mortgage payment?

>> Uh the new mortgage payment is probably going to be around like 2500 a month.

>> The new Okay. And how much do you guys bring home a month as a household?

>> Well, with with my husband would be around like 200 or so. 200,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And then what would you be making if you you know down the line >> on my own? Uh if I if I ended up being on my own, I make around 140.

>> 140. Okay.

Um and >> on the old home is um like 1,500.

>> Well, >> a month with half the interest rate.

>> 1,500. Okay. But you you probably clear

what close to 10,000ish a little less a

a month. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Maybe. Yep.

>> Because the mortgage isn't completely >> Yeah. Worst comes to worse, you could afford this new house mortgage on your own and still have cushion.

>> Yeah. How much would the would your other home sell for? How much was the cash offer? >> Uh 420.

>> 420. Okay. >> And what do you owe on that one? >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. 410. 410. and I owe uh

probably around 140 left on it.

>> Okay. Um and what other debt do you guys have? >> Um I probably have 15,000 I could easily

pay off, but I >> Okay. >> It's old student loans that I should just pay off. Sorry, a little guilty. I listen to you guys. >> No, you're good. You're good. >> No guilt, no shame, no condemnation.

>> But yeah, I can I can pay that off.

>> Well, I'm trying to figure out a way. Do you love the new house? like would you want to stay there if it made sense financially >> um with this baby? It's a big house and

um I guess I'm still like I'm still like

>> do I do I want to do this on my own? I

think it would be harder to do that big house on my own. Like it's just such a >> just the maintenance home. It's it's double. You're talking Stacey very like

you sound finalized in your in your conversation with us about him >> that your new chapter is solo.

>> Yeah. Um is that where where are you? I mean I can't imag that the heartbreak is

>> Yeah. Solo for now for sure. I I I need some time to separate cuz obviously whatever I've done in the past has not worked out. >> Okay. So, I need to um I obviously like

sorry there's so many things emotions and it's kind of all new. But there I obviously want to have a family. I want to raise our son in >> a good environment with a good dad, >> but right now I think just I need to take some time and so I don't have like 100% what will happen in the future, but I would like to be serious and make sure he >> focuses on himself and gets help.

>> Yes. Yep. 100%. And I Yep. I get that.

It's not a healthy situation. And to live with broken trust your whole marriage >> Yeah. >> is not a great marriage. And so the work Yeah. We always I mean our prayer for

situations always um you know is is that

redemption and reconciliation. And the prayer is that you know two people find healing and it and it stays intact. It's like we we want that, but also also we

know the reality and also know that you have to take care of yourself and this new baby too. So, >> um >> I have a a option that maybe we haven't thought about. What is the mortgage on the new house?

>> Uh the sorry, the mortgage on the new house would probably be around 2500.

>> No, I mean the the balance of the mortgage >> Oh, sorry. The balance of the mortgage would probably be it's like around 300.

So, if I sell my old house, sorry, depending on equity and things like that, then I'd be probably around 300.

>> Oh, got it. So, this is >> for the loan. For the loan, sorry, for the loan. >> So, you haven't taken out a mortgage yet on the new house.

>> Oh, no. Sorry. Sorry. I'm bad with these finance. 560,000.

>> That's the current balance.

>> Is that? >> Okay. >> But no, we put 200 down. Um, that kind

of was a >> And that's without your home >> loan with my parents.

>> Oh, so you owe them that money back.

>> No, because I have equity in the other house with my dad. >> But I'm saying if you sold it, you can't use that money toward the new mortgage.

You'd use that money to pay back your parents.

>> Um, probably the difference I pro my plan was just to pay them back >> the 200 grand.

>> Yeah, because of the equity. I I know I for sure have at least 200 in equity.

>> Yeah, you probably walk away with like 250. That's what I'm trying to get at.

If you use that 250 to put onto your new mortgage and then did something called a recast, it would drastically lower your payment. You basically throw a lump sum at the new mortgage and they can take it down. >> So, you're saying sell the sell the smaller home, >> pay off the parents, take the remaining 50 on this on this new house. It might take your payment down to 2100, for example, just to give you a little more cushion, but again, it doesn't solve all the problems.

I thought you could throw all 250 at it. That would really lower the mortgage and make you sleep better at night. But that feels like the least of your worries at this point. >> I honestly, Stacey, I would probably just stay put.

I I don't think I would make any big decisions right now. And if you need the separation, do the separation. Have the B. I I wouldn't do much right now.

And I would look if a year from now you need to sell. >> Yes.

Hey,

hey, hey.

So, we wish we could get to every call and question here on this show, but if you do have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head over to ramseysolutions.com and use Ask

Ramsey. So, this is our free AI tool that is trained on Ramsey Principles. We have dumped every show over the last couple of years, articles, books, everything that we put out into this tool. And so it will answer you like we

would if you had called the show. So it's actually pretty amazing and it's getting some traction, George. We're seeing a lot of people use it. Oh yeah.

>> Uh >> cuz it's conversational. You can go back to if you sign in, you can go back to your old chats and follow the keep going with the conversation. >> You can put in specific numbers and all of it. Like it really is amazing. And so um yep. If you have a question, go to ramseyolutions.com or if you're listening on podcast and YouTube, you can click the link in the description.

All right, let's head to Oh, Knoxville.

Go VSS. We love to see it. Hey.

>> Hey, Michelle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You are welcome. How can we help?

>> Well, I would like to know if I can afford this $25,000 vacation.

>> Oo, that sounds fun. Where is the vacation to?

>> Okay, I don't know if I'm allowed to say names or anything, but there is a certain cruise line putting out these big huge ships with tin pools and water

slides and I went >> Royal Caribbean. I bet it is. I thought you I thought you were about to say I'm going to go get a suite on the live like no one else cruise. >> I know. You can name drop that.

>> I thought you are you going to come cruise with us, Michelle? Cuz we have a cruise. I didn't even know that was a thing, but I'm going to look into that.

>> And I think it's probably cheaper than this. >> Yeah. How many people are going?

>> It's just me and my longtime boyfriend

of eight years, and he is side eyeing me like crazy for the last three weeks since I mentioned this. He thinks I'm nuts. >> Well, well, the main question, do you have $25,000 to spare?

>> I think I do.

>> I mean, it's a yes or no question. It's not a thought. You don't need to think. Is it sitting in savings earmarked as Michelle vacation fund?

>> Um, not necessarily as a vacation fund.

Um, I do have an emergency savings and then I have a separate savings in case I need anything for my house or cars, but just in my checking account, I have $85,000. >> Woo! Nice. Do you have any debt?

>> I have no debt. I My mortgage is paid off. I have no credit cards and I have two really old Toyotas. Okay. So, Michelle, if $25,000 left your account in like a week or two, would you feel that at all emotionally?

>> No, not for this or for the Ramsay Cruise. >> Oh, >> I think you should do both at this point. I mean, the Ramsay Cruise is a fraction of the cost of this one, so I think you can afford both, honestly. But we'd love to have you either way. You can afford this. >> I love your answer. He said that if I can get you guys to say that I can afford this, he will stop side eyeing me. And now I have another cruise.

>> Wait, are you paying his tab or is he chipping into this?

>> I am willing to pay every bit of this. I

am a semisuccessful small business owner and he is a huge huge reason why he

works with me uh two days a week. He does have his own full-time job going on, but he works with me his two days off and he takes no payment at all.

>> Oh wow. Eight years. So, this is you repaying him for the unpaid labor.

>> This is a big huge thank you. And I want to do this and I want to get out of here for the winter. Our jobs are very seasonal. So, we really slow down in December and January.

So, it wouldn't even be affecting our work. Like, we already have the time off. >> You got downtime. >> And you're able to to if you have to put a little bit of money away too between now and then, you could.

I mean, I know you probably have to put a deposit down on the trip, but in general, >> I do. >> Yeah. Yes.

I would be so looking forward to it.

>> Yeah. Trade that number for an experience. Let's go. Now, I'm I'm curious. Eight years you've been dating him. Are there plans to get married? Is there a reason you guys don't want to or one of you doesn't want to? >> Well, we have discussed it. Uh, we're

both in our late 40s and we both own our

own home and I think we're just kind of neither of us are ready to give up our own homes yet.

>> Got it. So, you don't he doesn't want to move in with you. You don't want to move in with him >> versus an eternal relationship. You know, >> this is just an eternal relationship of helping and love. >> He's married to his house.

>> He's married to his house. >> Yeah. He values the house. Y'all value the house more than each other. Just saying. >> What better place to propose than his fancy cruise or on the Ramsay cruise?

We'd love a proposal. I know.

>> I think he's actually more into the idea of getting married than I am. But I

don't know. He He would have to ask for something really good. Not necessarily jewelry. Maybe a nice handbag.

>> Oh, you know what? That's the new proposal in 2026. We propose with a Louis. >> Oh my gosh. >> I'm okay with that. >> She's Michelle, you're funny.

>> This is so fun. I I love her spirit.

You've done so well, Michelle. You've got green lights from us. This is the way to do it. You're baby step seven.

It's your time to live like no one else because you've lived like no one else. You got no debt. You saved up. This is a drop in the bucket for you. >> I think you can afford it, Michelle. And go to ramiesolutions.com and check out the live like no one else cruise. March of 2027, we're going to be setting sail.

So, come hang out with us, too, because you're on baby steps for and beyond.

>> And you don't have to go with him. If he's going to side eye you, you come alone. We'll be your we'll be your plus one. >> Amen. All right, let's go to Greenville.

And we have Jenny on the line. Hi, Jenny. >> Hey, how are you guys? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. Um, well, my husband and I got married like a month ago and we're so excited.

>> Congratulations. >> We just Thank you. We just um like went to the bank and joined all our finances um because I kind of made them. But um

we knew it going into our marriage that we were coming from two different places. Um, and I'm hoping you guys can

help me kind of get him on the same

wavelength as me. Um, he came in with a

little more debt than I have. Um, and I

came in with more savings than he has.

And I'm hoping that we can pay off all the debt. Yeah. >> But I think he sees it as um like I

don't know, me coming in and taking over control. So, I want him to like be on my page, but I want him to think it was his idea. >> Oh, >> wow. >> Welcome to Welcome to Marriage, Georgia.

>> So, how would we manipulate your husband into being okay with this?

>> No, it's not manipulation. It's just taking away guilt cuz he's kind of apologized like for, you know, >> that he feels guilty about it, you know, and I >> Right. And I don't want to like start paying things off yet if he's not on board, but >> Sure. Well, I think the value system needs to be aligned and and I think you guys can talk about that and and you can speak from your experience, Jenny, of what how you want to see money going forward.

You're creating a life together. You guys are starting, you know, starting off and just to say, you know, I want a life that is um that I have lots of margin and lots of peace with money. I don't need to live up to the edge and and above and beyond what we make. And so, I don't want debt to be part of the picture.

and what and just paint a picture, Jenny, of what that does for you. And then he you need to be able to talk to him and he needs to be able to communicate what he sees, what he thinks. And yeah, it may not happen in the first conversation.

And realistically, yes, you will be using some of your savings for that. But if he has guilt over that, you know, number one, you can't fix that. That's going to be his issues to work in. But also, I see that as marriage. I'm like, you take on the other person's stuff.

Like when you get married, you're choosing to combine lives, the good and the bad, the past mistakes, the thing, you know what I mean? Like all of it. Like you are choosing to combine a life together. >> Past, present, future. >> Yeah. And money is money is part of that. And so it's kind of this, you know, entry into marriage, if you will, you know, but it's there with numbers instead of emotions, I guess.

>> Right. Right. I just don't want to like put a damper on his confidence, you know? >> Yeah.

Well, as a man, he has this like bow up. I want to provide. I want to, you know, give my wife security. And so this makes him feel a little bit small for him to be in the weaker position and to you for you to be in the place of strength.

And you're your entire vibe here is not giving guilt. Like I don't know how you could share any of this with him the way you're sharing it. And he goes, "Man, you made me feel so bad." >> Yeah. It's his stuff.

And it's the thing, too, like there's going to be weakness in life. And so, yeah, his ego may be bruised a little bit, but that actually shows a level of humility to say, "Hey, I'm like surrendering all of this and like I hate there's some guilt behind this and some shame and and I hate this and like this is what it's doing to me." You know what I mean? Like, and you guys talk through it. Um, and it's amazing what can happen when you just say those things out loud.

And so, it is not it's not weakness in my opinion at all because it it is what it is.

and to build wealth as quickly as possible. And so we want to do this together. >> I like that. Don't focus on the debt.

Focus on the future. And part of that is becoming debtree. What's the fastest way to get there? Let's look at our resources. Great. We can knock out this debt. >> We're all one. Let's move forward.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I am Rachel Cruz with George Camel and we are taking your calls at88255225.

All right, let's go to Ken in Little Rock. Hi Ken, welcome to the show.

>> Hi guys, how's it going? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

I just recently learned about money and I continue to try to learn about it and I'm trying to figure out how I want to

position my income to pay off the debt that I have.

>> All right, sounds good. Well, how much debt do you have?

>> I have about 140ish.

>> Is that consumer debt or is that includes your mortgage?

>> It's consumer debt. I don't have a mortgage or rent or anything like that.

The job I have, I pretty much just live in my truck. So, >> Okay. Are you a truck driver?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, what's the $140,000 of debt?

What does that consist of?

>> I have a car that I keep at my dad's house. Uh, >> how much is that? >> Not really. It's I owe 357 on it.

>> Okay. It digs into my income, but I don't feel it as much as if I was to

have like all these other bills, which was kind of the thought process that kind of freaked me out. I was like, if I had these other bills, this would be a problem. >> Yeah. So, I should >> because you actually had to pay rent, you'd be screwed.

>> Yeah. >> All right. So, 35 on the on that car.

What else?

I have about 65 on a solar loan that I

put on my dad's house that I'm going to inherit when he when his time comes. But

uh then uh I have about 40 in college

loans that I've just been slowly tinkering with to try and get off of them for for

the last couple months or so. >> Yeah. Is that one big loan or is that separated out into like 10 or 11 different ones?

>> It's like 16 different loans. It's crazy. >> Good. And the solar is one big loan.

>> Yes. >> All right. And then the car loan is one loan. All right. That's what we're working with here. Is there anything else? >> Uh, no. But it feels like there should be as much money as I feel is going out the door. >> Yeah. What do you make? Uh sometimes on

a short month it could be around 4,000.

On a bigger on a good month it could be

somewhere upwards around 5,500.

>> Okay. >> Take home.

>> So take bad.

>> So about 50 to 60 is your take-home pay.

>> Um I mean it's bad when you have $140,000 in debt.

>> Yeah, that's true. >> That would have been a great income if you were debtree. Uh so let's walk through this as how we're going to tackle this. Can you work extra? How does that work? When you say a low month, a higher month, what is stopping you from making more?

>> A low month is when I have to go home.

>> Okay. >> Cuz I can stay out for a month or two at

a time and I'd probably take home most

600 grand for those months and then if I need to go recharge at the house, I miss

out on a week of income.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So when you're home, you're essentially taking time off, >> right? >> Got it. So we need you on the road constantly, it sounds like. >> Yes. To get to get out of this debt. For sure. Yeah. I mean, for the car, can the car makes no sense number one of just how much it is compared to your income >> and how little you're using >> and you're not using it a lot. So, um, if you sold it, do you know how much you could get for it?

>> Uh, probably somewhere between 17 and

20. Has it gone down that much or was

there negative equity?

>> It's an Eevee. It went down. Okay.

Immediately. Okay. >> I was like the second I got the loan, I was looking at it. It's like this sucks.

>> Yeah. >> Um well, I'd rather have

gosh >> 15 in debt than 35. Yeah.

>> Even if you >> But >> you know the difference you're underwater on, you're either need need to save up the difference or get a loan from like a credit union to cover the difference. >> Yeah. and then go get a crappy car that just sits out at your dad's house that you drive when you come home. You know what I mean?

Which isn't even all the time. So, I think justifying getting rid of the car, I think, is going to give you a little bit of breathing room. And then start knocking out these college loans, smallest to largest, and considering there's 16 of them.

>> Yep. Chipping those away, >> right? So, it'll take you it's going to take you about probably a good three maybe three to four years. >> If your income doesn't change, it will take years. And so, the hope is we can get you making more. If you are home, I want you doing side hustles. >> Yes. >> Doing something else to create another 1,500 or two grand a month to get out of

this thing faster. Cuz just the napkin math says, I can do it for you here.

$140,000 over four years. You need to be throwing 35 grand a year at your debt, which is a, you know, not far off from how much you're making total. >> Yeah. >> So that's, you know, almost three grand a month you need to be throwing just to do it in four years.

>> So this is a mountain of debt and I feel like you you don't have the urgency that I would have and partially it's because you don't have rent and a lot of bills that Yeah. >> the average person has. >> Yes. So I mean I would I would have some sacrifices, Ken.

So the car would be my first one. I would get rid of it. Get a small loan for the difference and start tackling this because that car payment that you're paying every month could be going towards paying off this debt. All right, let's go to Milwaukee and we have Helen on the line.

Hi Helen. Welcome to the show. >> Hi there. >> Hello.

>> I am right now at least.

>> Good, good, good. What's going on?

>> So, uh, my husband and I are currently

expecting baby number four. Uh, baby number four was not planned. However, it's a pleasant surprise.

>> And I am doing I'm doing July. And what

baby number four means is we now have to get a larger car. Yes.

>> Um, our cars currently only fit five. We are going to be a family of six. And as I'm doing July, we have a timeline of 15 more weeks. >> And we haven't had a car payment in 10

years. We don't want a car payment, but we're exhausting our options to save up

in the next 15 weeks to uh avoid a car

loan. We actually went shopping with the $5,000 we had to see if we could find anything um because we have $5,000 saved up for a car currently. And uh we were actually turned away by a used dealership saying that they couldn't get us a familyfriendly car uh that they're

comfortable putting us in uh for $5,000

and that they'd only take us if we like took out the loan. >> No. Yeah. At that at that price point, it's probably going to be coming from an individual somewhere that you'd have to find. >> That's a Facebook market. >> How much how much would your car sell for >> because you have $5,000 saved. How much could you get for the other car?

So, when I looked on Kelly Blue Book,

uh, trade in, it's around 900. Uh, per

private sale, it's, uh, about 2,000 at

the highest. So, like >> Perfect. >> 1,000 lowest, 2,000 highest.

>> Okay, great. And, um, how much could you

save in the next two to three months per month? Like a could you put a,000 bucks away?

>> Uh, probably not. That's kind of like the issue we're facing with it. We could see us saving up if we had six months for it, but not the next 15 weeks.

>> How much can you save per month?

>> Uh, right now we're living paycheck to paycheck because I am a full-time student at UWM. Okay. I gain my degree

in biochemistry and come May, our budget

opens up a whole bunch more. Good.

>> To where we can put away like maybe 700

a month. >> That's great. So, what I would say is number one, the expectation of a super nice car is not really there because you'd sell yours for 2,000. So, that's great. We're not looking for anything bougie. You're not bougie. It's great.

Um, I would put that in the 7,000. And you guys could survive with two separate cars. If you got to go somewhere, you both you both get two cars for the house with everybody. That's the goal here. No vacations, no trips. >> Dad of two. >> We're not going to go see grandma.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

So, we were just talking to Helen about buying a new car. We had to jump off cuz we had a hard break we had to get to.

But George and I were talking in the break and you know that there are options. you guys. Well, if Helen hopes hopefully she listened to our advice because we get the call of people that get in a dire situation and they're like, "Well, you know, I couldn't get this. The car dealer told me this and so we just went and got a $35,000 van just to like make us feel good about it." And then they're trying to pay it off and they're back in debt.

And so hopefully that's not what's going to happen to her. But here's the way you have to think about it. When you take debt off the table and you say, "Okay, we are not going into debt at all.

They could sell theirs for $2,000. It's a $7,000 car. And then she said, "Our income's going to open back up." I think she said May or Juneish. Um and so

>> once she's done with school. >> Yeah. And she'll they can save 700. You know, and if you do that for 5 months, you know, you think through, you know, baby will be three months at that point.

October, you know, that's, you know, that's some that's some cash. 3,500 bucks that you could easily save on top of that. and you could go get a $10,000 used car. Like that's a big upgrade from the $2,000 car she's driving now. And that's just in, you know, five, six, seven months. And so, yeah, will there be three months of it being inconvenient? >> If we need all travel, we take two cars.

>> Yeah, we take two cars. But again, >> the reality of how much you are probably Well, you got three other kids. I know that you're toting around, too. But um but there is, you know, a way to look at this and it sounds extreme, but I'm like if you just are patient for five five more months discomfort for five more months and go get a great $10,000 car and you were looking up vans online and >> so yeah, I like to just go, "All right, you walked into," she said, "I went to the dealership and they laugh me out of there." Well, don't go to the dealership.

Of course, they're going to try to get you in a brand new 2026 Honda Odyssey.

on a car payment on a $50,000 car, >> right? >> Or it had some issues, so we had to get a brand new car." Or I was worried about my my family's safety. So I'm like, "All right, go Honda Odyssey cuz you know that thing's going to outlive you." And so I looked up I went to just cars.com, filtered. She's in the Milwaukee area.

So I just looked up a random zip code. I went 50 miles out. I'm willing to travel to get a deal. And I sorted from lowest to highest and I found multiple Honda Odysseies. Now, are they the prettiest thing in the block? No. It's got one has 160,000 miles for four grand. The one that I like 137,000 miles on it, 8 grand

for a 2010 Honda Odyssey EX.

>> Yeah. >> And that's fine. It's a I said no accidents, clean title. Yeah. So, just don't go out there buying a lemon. Get a pre-purchase inspection from an independent mechanic of your choosing before you go buy a thing. But don't tell me that $7,000 cars don't exist.

>> Right. That's right. And what's wild about that is that's what 8,000. And if you did our plan, they could almost cash flow that right now with what they could sell their car for and that and then you save up over time and let's say you save, you know, for another, you know,

year, right? And if you're able to put, you know, >> I mean, 500 bucks a month is is six grand a year. Six grand. You can get a 16 grand car by then selling that one and upgrading.

>> Yes. in the next year $22,000 in one year. Like that's what's wild. It's like you just have to have some patience with it and think through the math and the reality and it's and it's doable.

It really is, you guys. So, um Helen, we're excited for you and baby number four, but uh don't go get the car loan. You guys can do this.

uh question of the day, George, and it is brought to you by Y Refi. And defaulted private or defaulted private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed. But Yrefi helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and payment based on what

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>> Today's question comes from Austin in Washington DC. He says, "We're in baby steps four, five, and six and contributing the full 15% to mutual funds. Despite these contributions, we have lost over $6,000 this year. Our contributions aren't even keeping up with the losses. Any advice or encouragement for us?

>> Lots.

So much. >> Welcome to the market today. That's >> by the way, it recovered already.

>> Did you know that the S&P 500 is back?

>> Back to what it was what, 60 days ago?

>> Yeah. It was like a few months everyone got spooked. It took a a dip which felt like a crash if you zoom in on one day or one week. and >> we're already back. So, no, you didn't experience $6,000 in losses cuz you didn't cash out. >> So, you're you're riding the roller coaster and right now you were at a dip and now we're back to level and soon we'll be climbing back up, my friend.

So, you got to have a long-term perspective when it comes to investing. Investing >> is for the long haul. >> Yes. So, keep your savings in a high yield savings account for short-term goals and know that your investments are 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 40 year game. And

then, uh, you know, he never checks it when it's up. Whenever it's he's 6,000 up, he's not going to go, "Hey, I'm 6,000 up. Am I doing this right?" >> Yeah. How well the market did the last two years. We didn't really hear much people talking about it. Like, every now and then, >> 18% in 2025, plus 18% the year prior was

like 23%, then 25%. These are unheard of

numbers. Wild. Wild. And yeah, it's just it's kind of like a oh that's good.

Good. I'm glad. I'm glad. And then it goes down a little bit and everyone's like >> and you have a flat year or even a negative year. And that's that's a normal part of the process. If you go look at the S&P 500 returns over the last 50 years, you're going to see some down years. You're going to see a whole lot more up years. The market is up way more than it's down. And it has always recovered. >> Absolutely. All right. Let's go to uh

Ashley in Houston. Hi Ashley. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> We're doing great. How can we help?

>> So, my husband and I are new parents and we're trying to make a wise financial decision for our family.

>> All right. >> Um, we'd really love for me to be able to stay home with our baby, but on one income, we feel like it's going to be a little tight. We would be decreasing our

income if I stay home by 55%. So, we

have a couple options, but we're not sure which path would be the wisest long-term decision for us financially.

>> Okay. What What are your options?

Um, so one option would be me staying home with her then working evenings and weekends. Um, just to keep our house and

our like fixed expenses afloat. Another

option would be me just continuing to work and not staying home with her um until my husband increases his income.

And then the third option would be that we sell our house and we move into a camper on my parents' land until he increases his income.

>> Woof. Okay. I don't like that option.

Can we take that one off the table? >> We'll take three off the table just because of for a long You mentioned the word long-term. >> Long-term financially that is not wise.

Um because you're selling an asset and you're taking one that's going down in value. So let's take that one off. Okay.

Have you run a mock budget, Ashley, on

if you guys just lived on his income?

Um where what expenses would not get paid? Like where does the line cut off?

Like are you able to pay mortgage, utilities, insurance? Like where where down the line are you like, okay, we are we're having to draw this line. Is it in the middle? Is it up with the expenses?

Like where where is that at?

>> Um most of our fixed expenses would be covered. It would be more so groceries

and gas and then taxes that are um up in

the air. >> Okay. Well, those are important. So, those are >> non-negotiable to eat. >> Yeah. Food, shelter, utilities, and transportation. So, you're saying your mortgage would get paid and utilities would get paid, but you may not have enough for gas and food.

>> Yes. So, that would be where I would be picking up additional.

>> What is What is a mortgage? weekend. Our mortgage is 7 or it's 18, but we put 2,000 at it. >> All right. What does his take-home pay?

>> Um, he makes 43 a year.

>> 43,000 a year is his takehome.

>> Okay. So, we're talking 3500 a month and your mortgage is 1,800.

>> Yes. >> That's tight.

>> Yeah. You may not be able to Yeah. Um,

>> I do think he needs to make more. I don't think this is like on fire. You could try the route of working nights and weekends. I think it's going to be exhausting real quick and get old. So, we need a clear path that he's going to make more. Otherwise, this mortgage is too much or you're going to need to continue working until we have a different financial scenario.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, I I I don't

mind the idea of moving, Ashley. Maybe it's you guys moving to a smaller condo,

maybe in a different part of town. Like, I don't know what that looks like cuz you could change your housing situation.

Um maybe a little bit. I mean, 1,800 bucks isn't like crazy. Um but if you could find something for like a,000 bucks, right? Um 1,200 bucks even for a

small mortgage, that would be ideal. So, you're almost shifting your lifestyle, downgrading it so that you can have the value of staying home or you value staying where you guys are. And yes, you probably would have to contribute financially a bit until his income comes up.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Homebase is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseyolutions.com/realestate.

Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines out there and conflicting data, it's really hard to know what's happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So, median home prices stayed steady last month at about

$439,450

and the number of homes on sale hit $1 million for the third month in a row.

So, buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. So, the average 15-year fixed rate dipped a bit to 5.86%

last month. And if you are debtree, you have a fully funded emergency fund and a solid down payment, now is a great time to sell your home, to buy your buy a new home, uh, wherever you are in the process, that's where you want to be in the baby steps. So, if you want to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you when you buy or sell your home with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's go to Blake in Panama City, Florida. Hi Blake, welcome to the show. >> Hi. >> Hello. How can we help today? >> Hey, look. Okay, so my question is, so me and my wife have our house paid off at 34. >> Whoa.

and I went back to school and got a degree at 30, you know, so we were struggling before and I was like, I ain't going to keep doing this. But the thing is now her family is peer pressuring us and she's falling for it to go out and buy a bigger and better house and new vehicles, but they're all paid for house is paid for and she's falling for it. >> What do you mean falling for it? You guys haven't done anything yet, right?

You're just saying she's in on it. She's like, "Yeah, I'm ready. >> Let's go into debt." >> That's right. >> Do you guys have the money to upgrade cars? And do you want to?

>> No, I don't want to. But do you have the money to? >> Yes, I do. >> Okay. But you're just like that's not a priority for you. Is there any merit to what she's saying and that you're you could use an upgrade on the cars or the house or is it totally fine?

>> Well, with the house it's um about 1,600 square f feet and we do have three children so they're becoming teenagers so it is getting cramped in there but and um about 290,000.

>> Okay. And how much money do you have outside of that?

And uh and our basis account combined we have about 15,000.

>> Okay. So that's kind of your emergency fund. >> That's right. >> Okay. Anything above that savings?

>> Nope. That's that's all of our savings combined is with that. >> Okay. Um and what what do you guys make a year? >> Um I make uh we're right on 170 and she

does insurance and she makes 70.

>> You make 170 and she makes 70.

>> That's right. >> Okay. Okay. So, you guys make $240,000.

You have no more savings, just 15,000.

>> Well, I I just started making this about four years ago, and that's when I started paying and our house debt.

>> I know. >> So, you've been real focused on the house and therefore haven't been adding anything to savings. Is that right?

>> That's correct. And we my our vehicles are 2018s and I paid them off, too.

Focused on them. >> Okay. Gotcha. >> Got it. So, you've been on a debt payment journey and now you're at a good spot and she's already going, "Let's go back in." And you're like, "Dude, we just played this game." >> That's right. Yeah. We were in debt, you know, since we were 20 years old. I couldn't do it no more. So, I went to school, got a degree, started paying it off. >> What you guys are making, say you lived on a hundred grand a year. You could bank 140, right? And go get two nice

cars if you wanted. You don't care about it, but maybe she wants a nice car. You guys make good money. She should get a nice car. >> What cars are you driving right now?

>> So, she has a 2018 um Durango, and mine's a 2018 Ram 1500.

>> Okay. But you're fine. You're content.

But she's like, "Hey, I want to upgrade cars." >> And I think that's >> all the time looking. >> What does she want? Give me like a ballpark. What What kind of car? What price point is she looking at?

>> Well, she was looking at the wagon ears and they're $90,000. >> Goodness gracious. >> Two grand a year, you know. I mean, two grand a month.

>> Yeah. No. Yeah. No payments here.

We're not We're not going to be going down that road with her. But you guys could save up. Get a you know, a used one if you want to look. I feel like they don't have great reset.

Why do I feel like >> Here's the thing. Nobody wants to deal with the maintenance cuz it's in the shop half the time. >> Yeah. I don't think they're great.

No debt, no house payments. >> You could get a 304 $50,000 SUV and it's not a big part of your work. >> 70 is too much. >> I mean, just based on your lifestyle right now, it feels like a big jump, but >> probably >> we say no more than half of your income tied up with things with wheels and motors. So technically, if you guys kept up this income, you could have about a h 100red grand in total vehicles.

>> Yeah, that's fair. So maybe a $50,000 and it needs to be used. You guys don't need to go get a brand new car. You're not at that point yet.

>> Let someone else take the hit on depreciation. >> But she could go get a $50,000 car, but you guys need to save a nice car. >> Yeah, that is a great car. >> It's pretty much any vehicle used that she wants.

>> Yes, but y'all need to save up and pay cash for it. Okay, >> that's right. My thing with the house is though, the kids are teenagers and it is cramped, but they'll be out the house in five years. I don't just see the point of getting something bigger and just me and her.

>> Okay. Well, true.

of this is wants at this point. Our needs are taken care of, but Blake, you can spend some money. Okay. Not saying go upgrade the house right now, but I don't think she's I don't feel like she's completely out of control for wanting to up a lifestyle a little bit,

especially since you guys are making good money now. So, >> what's your household expenses every month? Everything that comes out of your checking account, what would that add up to in a given month?

>> I would say about $2,000.

>> Goodness gracious. And you guys are clearing what 15 16k a month?

>> Yes. Yes, sir. Like I said, it just started because we just got the house and everything paid off and um January Okay, let's play it out. That means you could bank >> 14 grand a month, $168,000 a year, which means you could go buy a $50,000 car, and then save up another hundred grand and upgrade to a $400,000 house all within the next 12 months.

>> Do you hear me? >> Right. Yes. I just don't know how to And it's cuz we came from nothing. That was so hard to save because I didn't have a good job and then I finally did and I'm so scared to go back to what it was.

>> You won't go back if you don't go into debt. >> Yeah. That's the thing is you're moving forward with no risk. >> So, you're purchasing the next house in cash. I just told you save 100 grand up, sell yours, take that 300 grand, boom, $400,000 house paid.

>> I got you. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Save 50 grand, sell her car.

>> So, Blake, y'all need to have a little dreaming cuz you're you are holding back, which I get why. I totally understand. And I know this is all so new because you're like, "We've just paid everything off and like, oh my gosh, now we want to go upgrade cuz we just paid everything off." So y'all, so she's been in a season of sacrifice and she's been a great teammate, I'm assuming, for you guys to hit these goals, which is awesome.

want our life to look like? And Blake, you may be like, I'm great driving my truck. And that's great. And she may say, I would love a newer car. Okay, great. Let's put that on the table. And I would love some more space. All right, let's go look. Let's just see, you know, and you can just pull up Zillow for the heck of it at dinner just for fun. Just for fun and just see what's out there >> in your budget. >> Yes. But you guys start kind of dreaming and in your budget. Yeah.

>> Don't go look at million dollar homes cuz then she's going to only see million dollar homes. >> Yeah. Yeah. But but you guys need to have an agreement.

We're not going into debt, but we can spend some money and enjoy some of this, too, right? So, >> because otherwise, what's the point of you working so hard and being this successful if your family can't enjoy it and reap the benefits while they're alive? >> Well, that was another thing. My daughter's about to be 16.

She's going to need a vehicle. And I know you don't go out and buy a young kid something super expensive. But then my two boys are right behind her. I'm you know scared.

>> So that No. No. So yeah. So that goes on the list.

The dream would be to upgrade the house.

We got three cars we got to pay for.

We're going to give each, you know, maybe the kid pays for some. We put some in. I don't know. I'm just making >> you guys set aside 10 or 15 and anything they save up goes on top of that. And that's it. That's the limit. >> Yep. So, um, for each kid.

>> Yeah. >> Is what you're thinking? Okay. >> Yeah, that sounds reasonable. >> I was going to go a little cheaper, but yeah, 10. So, 10 grand per kid we got to have. So, that's 30,000. >> This is rare that Rachel goes cheaper than me. I just I feel like that's a I should get an award for that. >> You should. >> Yeah, I've seen a statistic where most young kids wreck their first car anyway, so I didn't want to go so expensive.

>> Yeah, I get mad when I see kids in my neighborhood driving nicer cars than me.

>> Oh, >> I go, that's bad parenting. >> Get off my lawn. >> Kids in a brand new Jeep Wrangler. What a way to be so nonjud judgmental, George. Way to >> Yeah. Have that freedom. No, but so Blake, you guys need to sit down and make a priority list of the goals that you guys have in the next 12 to 24 months. Put dollar amounts next to them.

Look at your income and you guys map it out. And this is going to be fun. Don't stress. Don't Please don't squish her dreams, Blake.

Okay? >> You're you're dreaming too small. She's dreaming too big. Let her meet the middle.

But let her dream. This is part of it. It's fun. And she may not get what you know, everything you want.

That's not the point. But the point is like here is what I'm thinking and wanting and seeing and whatever. Like let it just happen. Let it be a fun conversation.

>> Avoid debt. >> Let me free you from that scarcity mentality, my friend.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 13:4.

The soul the soul of the slugard craves and gets nothing while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied. Leslie

Nielsen said, "Doing nothing is hard to do. You never know when you're finished." >> Huh? >> Something to chew on there.

>> Did I get it? Doing nothing.

>> Yeah. >> Doing nothing is hard to do. You never know when you're finished. >> I don't think anyone's waiting for it to be done. >> Is that what she means? Just don't don't do nothing. >> I think it's Leslie Nelson. the uh the famed actor RP.

>> Yeah. So, just keep doing something. >> Don't think too hard on that one. I think it was meant to be. >> It felt like a riddle or something.

>> Humor. >> Ah, >> he was a comedian, an actor, so you know that makes sense. >> Should have done the should have done the reference. >> Airplane, the naked gun.

>> It's before your time, Rachel. >> Oh, airplane. No, I got that one. Yeah.

Yeah. All right. I see. I see. When did he pass? >> Uh 2010. >> Okay.

All right. Let's head to uh not recent.

not recent to Raleigh and we have Mary Rose on the line. Hi, Mary Rose.

>> Hello. >> Hello. How can we help today?

>> So, we um kind of a little bit of a

longer story.

We moved from Washington State to North Carolina in October of last year and we wasted

all of our resources doing so. It was a bad situation in Washington. We weren't making it. We were making good money, but we still weren't making it. So, the Lord made a way for us to get to North Carolina. And we had an idea of two

years to buy a house.

>> Mhm. >> Well, we are in process of buying a house right now. The Lord made that happen as well. We don't have to put anything down at all. Um the rent or the

the mortgage is going to be less than

our rent payment.

We do have some debt in cars and some credit cards and stuff that we were planning on paying off. And my question really is, am I thinking about it correctly in I'd rather pay a mortgage,

build equity, than pay someone else's mortgage by renting.

>> I think that's a a shortsighted approach because you're not thinking about the full picture because we don't know what the mortgage is compared to your income and what these debt payments have to do with it. So, I don't know that the Lord is uh, you know, in charge of zero down mortgages, but you're here. I mean, you already did it, right?

>> Mhm. Yeah. I mean, we call first

>> mortgage payment's going to be right around,550 and we pay 1615 a month in rent.

>> And what's your income every month? What what comes into your bank account?

>> Well, so we make about 98,000 a year.

>> Okay. Is that your gross income?

That's Yeah, that's our gross income.

>> Okay. So, but you don't know what's coming.

>> So, every month >> my I can give you a guess. Is it around six grand a month?

>> No. Um, so I'm actually I just got a new

job in the town that we're moving to, which is about $5 more an hour than I'm making, plus $300 extra in bonuses a

month. >> Okay. So, what's your new hourly wage?

>> My new hourly wage is 20. and he makes 27.

>> Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. You're making about 100 grand gross and but my guess is your take-home pay will be about six grand. So 1,500 bucks on a mortgage. That's about a quarter of your take-home pay. So you're in line there.

Now, how much debt do you have?

Uh, well, we pay probably $800 a month

in car payments and then probably $400

in credit card payments because we, like I said, we exhausted all of our resources getting out of Washington State. >> What's the balance of the loans, the credit card debt, the car loan?

>> I think the credit cards we've got about

15.

Our truck is 16. My car is nine and the

Harley's 30 something, but my husband has have he he's listed his truck for

sale. >> So, we're we're trying to get the truck out so that we can, you know, save some money that way and then we can really, you know, start building a savings so that he can get something that the truck in Washington made sense.

Doesn't really make sense down here. His job actually provides transportation for him to get back and forth from work.

Plus, he can drive his Harley. So, >> and his is the Yep. And his is the 16,000.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. So, he can possibly sell it.

>> I told him to list it for 27 and maybe get 25 for it.

>> Oh, great. So, you could walk away with some cash. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Which could knock out the Harley and maybe close to paying off your car, >> right? and he what he wants to do is pay the credit cards off because it's a higher interest rate and then we just cut the credit cards up and we're done with the credit cards because that was kind of just a >> you can cut the credit cards up now.

>> You don't need to wait till it's paid off and I would do that, right?

>> We recommend the debt snowball method because it's the method that actually causes people to get out of debt >> and it's it's all about momentum and psychology. So, it's smallest balance first instead of the highest interest first. What you're talking about is debt avalanche method. on paper, yeah, you could maybe save some interest, but right now we're not trying to save interest, right? If we were playing math, we wouldn't be in all this debt.

>> But Mary Rose, I I do want to say though, when we when we look at the

order at which we buy a home, even if it's a great deal, um >> even if it's cheaper than rent on paper.

>> Yes. On paper, I still would not have bought a home until I had this cleared out because you guys have no money.

>> You have $43,000 net. And if the heating and air goes out, you're 20 grand. Like, what are you going to do? You know what I mean? Like, there's So, so, but I'm saying the rent, listen though, the rent, >> even though you're paying $1,000 less.

That's $12,000 a year, you're saving, which is great. And I get building equity and all that, but if something goes wrong when you rent, things are taken care of. So, just know the expense of home ownership, even though you don't see it in the mortgage, you're take you're keeping up with the yard, all of it. So just know that um that that it's

still going to feel you may it may still feel tight. >> So really for the last 15 years we've lived in situations where we take care of everything in the house anyway. Like if the heating or air goes out my husband takes care he does everything.

>> As a traditional renter though that would not usually be the case. The landlord should be should be paying for it though. >> Right. Right. >> Okay. So just saying >> so we we understand the you know the the

taking care of those types of things you know um like my husband's a master of

all he he does everything so we haven't

I mean this is the first time we've rented from a property management company in 15 years and so

>> so when is the lease over and have you actually closed on the house? So, we close on the house May 1st. The lease is over in August, but the sellers agreed

to buy us out of our lease.

>> Okay. As part of a concession. >> What kind of mortgage did you guys get with nothing down? >> USDA loan.

>> Okay. >> So, I I know that you guys don't recommend USDA loans, but my husband got

curious. He got on his phone and he put a request out. They approved us up to

250,000.

Yeah. They approved us up to 250,000 and

by some chance, you know, we took a left

and there was a house on the right hand side that was a twobedroom and we've only been looking at threebedroom. It was 215,000 for I mean you can make it five bedrooms

>> and three parcels and a huge w

woodworking shop in the back. So >> Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. No, I bet it's great. I bet it's great. But the issue is if that house goes down in value, you're now underwater on a house cuz you have no equity. And USDA loans, they include an additional premium. There's an initial fee of 1% and a.35% annual

fee after that. So, it's not as great of a deal as it sounds. It's like saying, I got zero down on a car. Great.

You just took on the full loan instead of having anything down. So, I want to tell you that >> you you can do this house. I wouldn't personally. If you can back out, I would to kind of clear the deck a little bit more and step into this from a place of strength.

Right now, you're stepping into it out of more desperation from getting a out of a bad situation. Uh but it's not going to tank you if you guys can keep up this income. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And he's been in his job since December. I will move into my job

actually next Tuesday. And >> that's great. We're just >> Yeah. I'm excited for you guys. Yeah. I think it's great. I think whatever you know you're choosing to do, but you got you guys have to knock out this debt.

Um, and yeah, there's a lot of deals and

a banker giving you a a loan at 0% down

>> is that Jesus God or not? I don't know.

I don't know. >> Um, but George, uh, thanks for a great show. Thanks everyone in the booth. And remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 238. When Life Hits Hard, Stay Focused on What You Can Control | May 13, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Jade

Wall, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

The phone number is88255225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Brad is starting us off in Denver, Colorado. Hey, Brad. How can we help?

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me. I love your show. >> Well, thank you, sir. How can we help?

>> So, yeah. So, I' I've been listening.

I'm actually a new uh listener. I've been listening for about a month now. I got hooked on YouTube. You just have such good financial advice and personal advice and Mike, it's hard not to listen to you. Um, but I started listening and I realized I thought I was being successful, but everything I'm doing is almost opposite of what you're saying.

So, I had to do a little self-reflection. Um, and and I have some questions on like how I, you know, go forward in the future on this, but essentially what's going on is um I make a decent amount of money, you know, W2 um in software and my entire financial

mantra is to be to build um rental real estate. And the reason for that has been I want residual income. So, I want um you know to have an amount of money where inflation doesn't matter. Everyone right now is worried about inflation. and I could care less. Um, I want it to last forever because I don't know how long I'm going to live. No one does. And so those two things to me are my safety net. But to do that, I've drained 401ks.

Um, I live paycheck to paycheck. Um, I have credit card debt, car debt, you know, the whole nine yards. Um, it's it's worked out now that I'm I'm 47 and a little bit older now. Um, but my whole thing is can I just keep those properties and enjoy life? and and if I

can, that's finance success for me. But now, as I move forward, I'm listening to you and co-workers, you know, they're all telling me some different things. So, I'm just wondering if you have some advice on how I might shift this to to work with your program and my program.

>> That's interesting. Nice call. Thank you. >> I love that. >> And so, you said W2 software income.

What's your income?

>> Uh 500K a year about I'm I'm commissioned as well, but it's pretty consistent around 500. >> Oh, good for you, man. You're killing it. That's amazing. And um do you still

have the drained 401k and all the credit

card debt and the car debt?

>> Uh no. So I got rid of the credit card debt um like a couple years ago. We lease a car that's expensive, but I paid off my other car. So my actual and then we bought an RV. Um but but actual like

debt as far as that goes, I would say it's overall pretty low.

>> So your debt consists of uh right now an

RV and a leased car other than your home. >> That's correct. and your rental properties and rental they're all not paid off but they're all low balances but that's right I have 1.7 million in total liabilities >> how many are there between the over the 1.7 >> how many properties >> there's there's seven including my primary >> Oh okay okay it's not bad all right and and you said the the 1.7 million is the debt on them or the value of them >> the debt >> oh I see the value of the seven properties would be what >> um is 5 million >> okay >> very Excellent.

Excellent. Okay.

the negative things that you mentioned you've almost done away with and that's the drained 401k and the the you know

the use of consumer debt while you were running up these rental properties because those things are obviously destabilizing your original plan,

>> right? >> And you realized that without ever having heard of Ramsay, it sounds like and it sounds like you were already moving away from that and that so that that's wisdom. So, I don't know why you couldn't work our baby steps from this point forward. Clear up the RV and the car lease quickly and make sure you have a good emergency fund and then make sure you're starting to fund your 401k aggressively. And meanwhile, I'm going to start using $500,000 a year to pay

down these rental properties. I'd probably work me a little rental property baby or debt snowball up in uh up in baby step six. >> Yes, I love that idea. How >> would you sell some to get rid of debt just to be debt free? Or are you okay with having some of that debt?

>> I would, but I wouldn't prescribe it for you as your first step >> unless there's one that you know is not flowing well. >> Yeah. There's one you don't like that's got some equity in it. I'm not fond of this property. Like I've got I probably got I think I got 15 houses left

>> and I've been moving everything over into commercial in into uh commercial properties and I I've definitely out of those 15 I got a couple of them that I don't care if I ever sell them and I got a couple of them if I could sell sell them today it wouldn't make me mad, right? And I'll I'll I'll roll those with a 1031 over into the other. They're paid for, of course. But if you kind of picked out that way and you said, "I'm going, okay, out of the seven, there's two I don't even like >> and it kind of accelerates this get out of debt plan to dump them and roll the equities into these uh paying down debt on the others." Yeah, I'd probably do that.

But if you love all seven of them, they're solid and you want to just systematically work through them, you could be debtree in about five or six years. >> Yeah. So to be and I I'm going to ask this question um on your behalf uh because I think a lot of people wonder about this because I think the the the response for most people is oh this is Dave Ramsey he's going to say sell sell the properties to pay off the debts on the other properties and get debtree tomorrow.

okay for you. >> Okay that's a good question. I like that. Um, it feels okay for Brad cuz

Brad came from the other side of the pendulum and he's swinging down towards the bottom now. >> And I'm not trying I don't want to take him and kick him up to the other side.

If I woke up in his shoes, >> having lived debtree and the wealth I've been able to build debt by being debtree and had incredible cash flow because none of my properties have a single debt on them, I would sell enough of them to be debtree in about 30 minutes.

>> Right. Right. But that's a that's such a shock to Brad's system.

>> Yeah, he's been >> I'm okay. I'm okay if you do this a little bit slower. But um but but mathematically and in congruence with what we teach, >> I do honestly believe and I've proven it with my life and many others that if you sold off enough of it to become debtree, in other words, if you had three debtree properties and you didn't have the total

of 5 million, you had a total of three or two and a half or whatever versus five leveraged. I think 10 years from now, you're going to be glad you did that financially, mathematically. Mhm.

>> Um but but I'm not going to try to get you there today. You're you're three YouTube videos in, man.

>> Right.

>> My wife's always wondering what I'm watching. I said, "Come over here and listen to me. It's good stuff." Uh but she she has a finance degree, so she agrees with you on a lot of the stuff.

She I kind of drive her nuts on a lot of these. >> And I also think that you've latched on to a really important part of what what we teach, which is daytoday dealing with debt and consumer debt. Cuz my guess is after this, when your lease is up, you're probably not going to lease a car again. You're probably going to go, "Uh, I could take some of my $500,000 income and I could buy something in cash and that's something that's mine and I never have to do the payment thing again." >> Yeah.

Or or you know, and this is another question, but do I get aggressive and keep trying to buy like another property and keep leasing and doing that stuff?

>> It's a real simple thing. Debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. Less

debt equals less risk. It's a simple formula and that's 100% true. There's no exception to that proven property now.

And so if you got it down to where you had $500,000 worth of debt and you had

$4 million worth of properties, you know, you've got virtually no risk, but you do have more risk than me cuz I got no debt, you know, and and the the

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>> Stevens in Atlanta. Hi Stephen, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay, so I just need some advice on how to appro approach my employer about something. I've been with my job almost 7 years, 6 and a half to be precise. And I've realized over the years, two to three hours at times of volunteer work turned into over 1,000 hours of unpaid work. And I'm an hourly employee. So, I

just don't know the right way to approach my employer because it's really taken a toll on me that I've worked all these years or all these hours of unpaid

even though I technically chose to do it. >> What did What do you mean by that when you said a few hours of volunteer work turned into unpaid work? Explain that.

>> Okay. So, I I work in retail and I would clock out, but then I would see my co-workers get busy. Like let's say I would leave at 2 3:00 and they'd get busy and I would maybe say till 4:30, 5, even 6:00. And did they ask you to help

customers? >> Uh, a couple times, but at times I just chose to. >> Then they don't owe you a thing.

>> Yeah, >> you chose to do that.

>> It was your choice. You clocked out.

If you clocked back in, if you wanted to be paid, you would have clocked back in.

>> Or you would have checked with management and said, "Do you need me to stayed back in?"

>> Yeah, but you just stayed and no, didn't ask anybody. Didn't get permission.

>> They're not obligated to you morally or legally.

>> One time I tried to push back and then I got scolded. >> Well, that's okay. >> So then that's just go home when your hours are over. >> Get a different job. But I'm not, you know, if I get scolded for not getting paid for working, then we've got a different issue. Okay. But um the or if

you get scolding for offering help at that moment, I would have dealt with it and said, "Okay, >> I'm not going to be here unless I'm clocked in. Hello, that's not mean.

That's you can be you can be gentle about how you say that >> to your not be belligerent to your manager, but you know if your managers are expecting you to work >> off the clock for free, that's something you should have dealt with in the moment. >> I agree with that. Now, it sounds like, and I I want to say this to you, Stephen, it sounds like you're a uh you're a self-starter. You're looking at the situation going, "Well, gosh, they need to be scheduling more people.

I this is my friend. I'm trying to be a team player." It sounds like that's probably your heart in the matter, but then you kind of looked up and went, "Man, this is a lot. I wonder if I can get them to pay me for this." But then the other part is you don't have a record of it even like cuz there's no clock in clock out.

>> saying. Some of it is provable, but that's, you know, a different thing, I guess. >> What do you make an hour?

>> About 20 $21, something like that.

>> Yeah. All right. So, um, yeah.

Yeah, I don't think they owe you, man.

Not morally or legally. Now, what I would do is change what I do going forward from today.

>> And that is if I expect to be paid for the work, then I need to work that out with leadership and clock back in.

Otherwise, I'm doing this out of the goodness of my heart and I'm going to harbor no bitterness towards the employer. >> Right. Right.

>> And that's what you were doing. Um, and

but then it kind of when it piled up, you went, "Oh, crap. I kind of let myself get taken advantage of here." Yeah. >> And you did. Yeah. >> And but I would stop that. I I wouldn't I'm not suggesting you have to do this going forward.

>> But um >> either that or and and I would have said this to him if he were still here. Uh something financial popped up and he realized, man, I could really use some extra money. Where can I get it from?

You know, that'll cause you to look back and go, "Uh, >> yeah." Yeah, but I mean that's like >> you can't you can't go I was in a car wreck 3 years ago and now I need some money so I think I'm going to sue him for the car wreck. You know I mean you can't do that. I mean that's not how this works at the time. If you'd have dealt with it you'd have dealt with it but that's right.

>> That's what I'm saying. It might point to a deeper issue. >> But I I appreciate your good heart and your team player. I'm with Jade on that.

I think she observed you correctly on that. I jump straight to you get no money, but um but uh but you don't you

get no money, but I do appreciate your heart. And I would say it is more than fair. And by the way, what you're describing is not that unusual, particularly in a retail setting.

>> Absolutely. >> Um it could be I'll tell you places in other places, >> restaurants. >> Not unusual. Restaurant. Yeah. They'll work you till midnight and not think nothing about it. >> Hey, stick around. Help me clean up off the clock. No, I don't think so.

>> I don't think so. Happy to stick around or I'll do it once because you got, you know, we had, okay, four people were sick, didn't come in on shift. Yes, >> I'll help you. Y Okay. But I'm not going to do this for six and a half years.

>> That's right. >> And then look back and go, I don't think I like this anymore. No, I would I would not like it after the third time.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> You know, and then decide or decide it's part of my life and it's my gift to >> and it's just amazing >> to my friends and to my teamwork and to my organization. could do that >> and you can do that if you want to.

I don't recommend that. I don't because I don't think I think that's going to end up in of a little bit of bitterness. It would in me. >> Yeah.

>> Over time I I would be like him. Over time I'd be going I don't think this works. >> Yeah. I I agree with that.

I agree with that. >> Good good qu interesting question. I think so. Very interesting question.

Leslie's in Phoenix. Hi Leslie.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? >> Hi. I have an interesting question that

I really am not educated in. So, I thought I'd come to the pros. So, um it has to do with whether to just do a 1031

or to pay taxes. So, we bought um some

farm ground that we had planned to build our house back in 2021. We bought it for

$90,000 and we are planning on selling it. Um we just went in escrow to sell it for $240. And so, my question is,

>> you bought it for what again?

>> Sorry, we bought it for 90,000 and we're selling it for 240. Okay.

>> And it's paid for. And so we know that we'd be making about 150 capital gains.

Um, and we are planning on purchasing some more vacant property. That property

would cost us 375,000.

And so my question to you is, is it best

to put it in a 1031 and put all of it towards the land, or do we just pay the

taxes so that we have uh the cash on

hand to potentially build a house with that cash later on?

>> No. If I was going to build a house with the cash, I'd just sell the land. If you're if you need the cash, it does no it you're going to end up selling the other property, the second property if you need the cash.

>> We were we're building our our home on the sec the property that we're purchasing.

>> Okay. You can't do a 1031 on it then

>> cuz it's not it's not it's not like kind you can't do a 1031 on personal residence.

>> You can only do it on like kind properties. So, if you went vacant lot to vacant lot or or rental property to rental property, income producing to income producing, you can do that, but you can't do it on personal residence.

You can't roll your rental property into a personal residence on a 1031.

>> So, so they're both vacant lands.

They're both in cotton. And so, they're both like >> Yeah. But when you build a house on this piece of vacant land, you screw up the deal. The 1031 is going to be invalidated.

>> Okay. So, you couldn't do it anyways then, >> right?

Okay. >> The second piece of property, the 375, is what you want to build on. Is that what you're telling me? >> Correct. Yeah, >> that's what I thought. Okay. Yeah. No, you can't do that. >> Double check with your tax advisor. I'm not a tax professional, but I'm right.

>> Great advice. >> Okay. Thanks. Thanks for calling. I did this one time cuz I had a uh I was buying uh a piece my I bought my next door neighbor's house on the lake.

>> Wow. >> My lake house. >> Yeah. Uhhuh. And I was I wanted him because I was giving him a great deal on it and he was going to go buy another piece of property on the lake because prop prices were down back in '08. Okay?

You know, prices were way down. It was a good deal for him cuz I paid him like full retail cuz I wanted the land to build a house on. Right. Okay.

>> And uh it wasn't for me on the 1031, but I suggested to him he 1031 his lake house into another lakehouse, but he had no income he produced on it. It was a vacation property only and you couldn't do it. >> Oh, that's right. So that's that's when I got into the nuances of the >> it really has to be the same of the law.

You can't do well he'd had to have rented his lake house 181 days.

>> If he did that then he had to it would be rental property resort rental property right and he could buy another piece of resort rental property that he rented. >> But you can't do it on vacation property to vacation property can't that if it's not rented. So, it has to be income producing or if it's a piece of raw ground, raw ground to raw ground. Can't be personal residents involved and can't be non rented vacation property either.

That's the only reason I knew that is cuz I almost screwed it up for this guy and we had we actually got the tax advice cuz Dave was wrong and that's how >> you remembered forever.

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Right now you can enter once a day. No big deal. No purchase necessary. I think I said that. Daniel's in Houston. Hey, Daniel. What's up?

>> Hello, sir. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Oh, man. Um

I don't even know where to start. Um,

I just feel I don't have control of any of my finances and

to make it make it worse, um,

my wife and I were financially divided.

You know, it's her money is her money, my money is my money kind of thing. And

my car just got rebold. Um

my employer they're uh they they vet you

know their employees every now and then and that's another thing. Um

>> they do what to the employees every now and then. >> They my employer what they do is they they make sure that we're financially good. you know, like they they they look at our if we want to keep the employment, they our credit score or our our credit, it needs to be, >> you know, at least good, you know, I mean, I need to make payments, arrangements. >> What do you What do you do?

>> I work for the government. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you're concerned about that?

>> That's one. I'm concerned about my marriage. Uh, you know, >> so what do you contemplate?

>> I'm sorry. How much do you make?

>> Uh, right now I'm making about 75.

>> And what does she make?

>> About the same, maybe. >> So, you have $150,000 coming in.

>> Mhm. >> And the crisis is where how does your car get repo when you have $150,000 coming in? >> So, it it it goes back to uh years ago. Um

everything just started snowballing you know on debt. You know one thing led to another another and then there was a series of events um u a family member

passed away two family members passed away and then the government shutdown hit and that that was the most recent one. Um, not only that, also, um, you know, just

bad decisions that I made. You know, I got a loan to cover the loan and everything. Just >> So, how much other how much other debt do you have, honey?

>> I have, uh, I have still in collections.

Um, I have, um, like personal loans. Um,

>> tell us the amount. How much personal loans?

>> Um, um, just personal loans. Uh, I want to say about 8,000 9,000.

>> Okay. And what about the collections? How much in collections?

>> Uh, in collections. So,

we're talking about maybe uh I don't know I think

about 15 to 20.

>> So, I'll tell you this. I'll tell you something briefly and then we'll move on that's really going to help tonight.

pull it all out and look at it and and calculate it up and list them smallest to largest. And that way it's not just this thing floating in your head. You really know what the numbers are. You can see it. You can name it. Do that tonight. So 15 >> and have your spouse sit at the kitchen table with you doing that and the kids are in bed.

>> Yeah. Well, that's you know that's the thing. I mean I I I've tried you know I've tried to get my spouse >> I didn't ask you to try. I asked you to do it. >> Yeah. What would cause what would cause her to say, "No, I won't sit at the table with you." Cuz that's very deep.

If she says, "No, I refuse to sit at the table with you." >> No, no. Like, she'll sit she'll sit with me. >> Okay, then do it. >> When But whenever we talk about finances, everything just spirals.

>> I don't want her to talk about I just want her to sit there and watch you add up what you owe. That's all I want her to do. Don't talk to her about it.

>> Yeah. One thing I want to mention, um, I just recently, uh, joined the, uh, guardian litigation group.

>> Okay, good. >> Um, yeah. And so they're the ones now

handling my accounts that my employer

uh, are questioning.

>> Okay. >> So, >> the ones in collections.

>> Yeah. I was in collections because I've been getting calls from different law

firms and and >> because they're trying to sue you. Yeah.

Okay. So, for the sake of time, you've got the 20,000 in collections, you've got the personal loans. Tell us, list out all of it. Tell us what else is there. Do you have cars? Do you have an RV? Tell us what else there is.

>> No. Uh, I have um um another repo that I

had uh last year, which about which is

about $12,000. I also have under my name

the solar panels.

>> Oh, boy. um which was actually actually

actually you know what it's actually more than more than 20,000 because just the solar panels itself was about 45,000 but we have an attorney for that uh

which are handling that case because apparently that that company the solar panel company they they went bankruptcy

>> okay >> and so we have an attorney >> okay >> because the we have a lease on the on the on the roof whatever I >> solar panel So solar panels on paper today you owe 45,000.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um anything else that's >> um other than that it's just credit

cards, personal loans.

>> Yeah. How much >> the >> How much credit cards?

>> Uh credit cards maybe like 600 bucks.

>> Daniel, you have $150,000 coming in.

>> You're not paying any of these bills anyway.

So, um, mathematically the question

starts to pose, where's this money all going? >> Mhm. >> Because you're not been paying any of these bills. You're not paying the solar panels. That's in the lawsuit. The rest of these things are in collection.

You're not paying anything. The cars are being repoed, have been repoed, and so you're not paying those monthto month.

>> So, where is all of your money going?

What's your house payment?

>> So, the house payment, it's about 1,600.

Um, >> yeah, that's >> something's Dave is right. Something's not right. >> You have $150,000 coming into the household. You have 75,000 of it. You are in control. You're in division.

You're you're you're at odds with your spouse. Um, which is normal when you've got this much stress. But the way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time. And

so Jade is right. If you list these things out and you say, "Okay, there's the solar panels. The attorney's got that. There's the uh collections.

Guardian litigation's got that >> the car repo. I'm going to turn that over to Guardian Litigation. Let them handle it. And if they can't, then I'm going to start. But I'm not paying anything on it. So, it's sitting over there. So, the first thing we're going to buy with the money coming in is food.

>> Yes. >> The second thing we're going to buy is lights and water. And the third thing we're going to do is pay the house payment. And the fourth thing we're going to do is pay the car payment, put gas in the car, and go to work. Now, we can breathe. The rest of this is a monopoly game. Rest of a game. and you're behind. You hadn't passed go. Oh, wait a minute. You did pass go. You got more than $200. You got $150,000. That's right. >> Cuz you keep passing go every month.

>> And so, um, but what's happened is is

you've got you walked into a nest of bees and they're flying around your head and you can't think. >> That's right. >> And so, what I want to do is get those bees to line up and fly in formation so

I can knock them off one at a time. And

uh but you you know the numbers you're giving me don't match your attitude.

>> Yeah. I I have a sense that what he's listing is his side of the equation and there's probably a whole other uh quote her side of the equation. It's possible.

I actually think that's the biggest part of this right now. It's very very hard to move forward uh together when you're not on the same page. But if you make 75 to 150,000, you should not have a car repoed >> and you should not have a house. You should not be behind on your house.

>> You should you could be behind on a whole bunch of other things. >> Mhm. >> Because you but you don't pay stupid whatever and not pay your car payment.

You don't pay stupid whatever and not pay your house payment. No. >> And so we take care of food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities.

>> Then we live to fight another day.

>> Right. And part of what is causing

um your lack of energy, your lack of hope in your voice is is that you have no semblance of any kind of an attack plan.

And we're giving you an attack plan. And the brain can handle bad news. It can't handle not knowing.

So give it the bad news.

>> Yeah. >> Load it up tonight. Give her brain the bad news. Let her sit there and look at the mess tonight with you. And then you guys begin to attack this one thing at a

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Chad is in Oklahoma City. Hey Chad, what's up?

>> Hey Dave, it's pleasure to be on this show. >> Certainly. How can we help?

All right. So, I have a very dangerous career that I'm rapidly approaching the end of, which is freestyle motocross, and it's uh uh you know, I've broken

over 80 bones and and been through all of it, right? >> I'm in my 25th year of it.

>> I love doing it. You know, performing in front of crowds, all of that is absolutely amazing. But, uh in the

middle of babys 2 with the wife, uh everything's going smoothly. I've kind of got a side gig in the trades trying to you know look at career options as far as the next path because I'm only 44. Uh but you know with our debts and

everything I'm trying to figure out how long I should hang on to this dangerous career while you know trying to still set the family up as far as you know freedom for later.

>> Okay. I don't know that I've ever coached a professional motocross guy.

What kind of money do you make?

Um, so in the freestyle motocross world, it's all about how many shows or events you can do per year, right? Uh, it's not contingent on winnings and stuff like racing. Um, >> it's more it's more exhibition stuff.

Okay. >> Yeah. Yes. Yes, sir. We're doing all kinds of stuff like all over the all over the world really. And how much I really try to do a lot of ministry stuff. >> Cool. How much do you make? I I a on a on a healthy year about 125 130 on a

good healthy year, you know, if you don't break any bones, obviously.

>> Um on the side trade still, I'm I'm pulling in about an extra 50.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And the side trade is what?

>> Uh electric work.

>> Okay. Good. Good. And so your plan long

term, it sounds like, is to become an electrician?

Yes. Uh, the area that we live in is

more rural, you know, and >> what do you want to be when you're 55?

That's what I'm asking, >> right? Yeah, that's that's that's what I'm trying to ask myself.

>> You can't do motocross.

>> No, I'm saying what what is your plan to transition to?

>> That's that's the ultimate question right there. I mean, right now I'm leaning towards the electrician thing.

>> Okay. Okay, that's cool. The other thing that popped into my head immediately would be that um you obviously

>> are the top 1% of the people in your world and it would seem to me that

without ever getting on a bike again, you could lend tremendous value to the motocross world based on your experience and your name for that matter.

Because if you've been making this kind of money and breaking these kind of bones for this number of years, I would think you know everybody and you know the inner workings of the whole stinking deal >> um and how it runs, no pun intended. And

um you know and I would think I would think you could get into that. Like I've got a friend I've got a friend that was an Olympic athlete in the skating world and um he doesn't skate for a living anymore. >> Sure. Um, uh, but he knows everyone in the business. Everyone in his everyone knows his name in the business and he's able to add value to the skating world,

tremendous value, and makes probably more money he's ever made in his life doing that. So, that's a possible angle on your life that just popped into my head. But if you don't want to do that, if you want to just turn your back on motocross, I don't blame you if you got broke 44 broken bones. I can imagine not wanting to see it ever again wouldn't be bad.

But um and if you want to be an electrician, that's fine, too. Then begin to what I would suggest you do is get the boat closer to the dock. Don't jump towards the boat and hope you hit it. Um you know, >> no, no, no.

I that's that's definitely the plan. >> Yeah.

motocross gigs because it sounds like you could probably trim this back a little and and rather than just all or nothing because there's electricians that make 120 a year >> working to do for sure. >> There's electricians that make 12 area.

>> There is there is just not in my area.

I'm kind of I'm I'm pretty much almost capped out on on that.

>> Okay. Then then you can't be in your area. in a contractor, >> you either have to be in a different area or you need to maybe think about another path or combining paths. Is there something where you do electrician work and you do something in motocross world >> that's not riding? >> Yeah.

>> Right. Yeah, that's that's kind of what I'm hopeful for. >> The question is what's your what's your timeline in in an ideal state? Are you trying to make this transition in two years? Are you trying to make it in three? What's your timeline?

um with our baby steps, I really think we can be debt free by the end of 27.

>> Okay. >> Um no problem. And then uh that's house

and everything. And then I was just honestly leaning on putting, >> you know, two years kind of after that kind of really putting what we are already currently doing, but you know, hyper doing the investments.

>> Yeah. But I think you could do that without being in motocross if your electrician income came up.

Yes. Uh well, we're I mean where we're

at, I mean we have our our we live in the country very close to a very very small town. We have our dream home, dream life. >> So again, I go back to next door.

>> I go back to what I said before, which is if you're saying the market simply is not large enough in your area, then you do have two choices. You can either combine combine uh trades and say I'm

going to be an electrician electrician and then I'm going to do something else to generate the income I need or you would have to relocate which it sounds like relocation's off the table for you.

So now now it's okay what other things can I do? And I'm also wondering does your wife work or is it really just is it just your income?

>> No, no, she does. She we both work two jobs. >> Okay. So here's the thing. You you do what Henry Cloud talks about. He just got a new book out this week. He was on here yesterday.

What is your desired future? Okay. And you put a timeline on it and you say, "Okay, my desired future is I don't want to ride a motorbike more than two more years or whatever you decide." And then

you ask yourself, "What must be true

for me to be able to do that? That's not true today." >> And what we've been sitting here banging on is your income has to be up in the other stuff. >> Yep. And I don't know how you do that or what you have to give up to do that, but you're either going to be riding motocross or you're not going to be living there. >> You're either going to be riding motocross or you're going to get your dad gum electrician income up.

>> Um I mean, if you want to stop one and start another, you've got to, you know, you got to figure out what it is you're going to do. And then you got to say, what must be true? How have I got to do that? Well, I can't do it with electrician. Okay, how can I do it?

Well, I can't do it with electrician live here. Then I got to move or I you know, whatever it is, >> something's got to shake. whatever it is. But you can't just go, I'm suddenly going to live on half of what I've been making.

I'm glad you didn't call me and say, "I'm making 600,000 a year doing this and I've got to take a pay cut to 50." >> That's right. That's tough. >> And I thought I thought for a minute the way you were talking like I'm my life is in jeopardy. I'm breaking bones and I I thought you were making some unbelievable money.

But 130 is replaceable. >> It is. And honestly, I'd be working to do that really quick because I don't think it's worth tearing your body up for $130,000. >> Your your brain is already checked out, which makes you dangerous.

>> Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

>> Well, we can >> within within 24 months. >> We can definitely send you uh find the work you're wired to do. And inside of that, there's a career assessment inside. You can take the assessment because I'll tell you what, >> and the wiring has nothing to do with electricity, by the way. >> That's right. That's just a a pun. But I

I will say the when you go from a career

that feels very um driven by excitement

and um spotlight.

>> Yes. I when he said I'm just going to go be an electrician, I thought, are you going to be okay like that? I really think if he can find something connected to that world, like you said, that's going to give him the spark he wants to keep going. >> I I think you What do I know?

>> I got a feeling you can make 200 a year promoting those events. promoting >> and hiring the other talent to run the events and analyzing the talent.

>> Yeah, sure. >> From the perspective of someone who's actually done it, I think you can make me make more than you used to make riding a bike. But I don't know anything about it. I'm making that up. >> Yeah, that's true. >> That was just a I've just made that up.

But I'm so freaking entrepreneurial that I always figure there's a business in there somewhere. There's got to be >> there's a business in there somewhere >> because he's already an he's already an expert in that area.

>> So, it's you got you and Sam did it. You were, you know, you were performers on cruise ships and now you and Sam own one of the largest agencies in the world, uh, putting talent on stages on cruise ships. >> That's right. >> And, uh, you're not been talent on a stage on a cruise ship in a long time, except when you went on the Ramsey cruise.

>> That's correct. >> So, but other than that, I mean, you know, so you took the, >> you know, the the the the talent gig and knowledge from it and you turned it into a business. And that's that's exactly what I'm talking about. >> That's right.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Carla is in Pensacola. Hi

Carla. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I, we had a a

catastrophic uh life-changing event uh November of last year. Um I was diagnosed with stage 4 bladder cancer. >> Whoa.

>> And yeah, it's been a a humbling

experience to say the least.

Um, we own our own business. I thank the

Lord that we had a savings uh personally

and business-wise, but we have since lost everything. Everything has, well, I

say lost everything. All of our money is gone. So, we're starting from ground zero again. >> How are you doing? >> Um, I'm doing better also.

with the blessing from God. I just got

my latest PET scan and the cancer is

diminishing. Oh. >> So, we're on the right track.

>> Amen. That's what's important.

>> Yeah. >> Money money comes and goes, but you got to you got to protect that. Wow.

>> So, you didn't have you didn't have health insurance?

>> No. Unfortunately, I did not. Neither one of us had health insurance because we were young in our minds and naive and

just pretty healthy. Neither one of us ever get get sick. Um, >> how old are you? >> And then I'm 53.

>> Okay. >> So, what did the what did these bills amount to?

>> Oh, they amounted to we're well over

$100,000, but >> And how much did you have in savings?

We had um about $100,000 combined

personal and business and that's >> and the bills were about >> you cleaned out your cash but you haven't lost the business.

>> No, that is correct.

>> How are you continuing to pay for your medical care at this point?

>> Right now I have because I cannot work.

I have been approved for disability.

>> Okay. Um, I will get my first paycheck from disability June 3rd.

>> And how much is that? >> That will be >> $1,900 is what I've been approved for a

month. >> And in the meantime, I mean, I go back to my first question, which is how are you paying for your care?

>> I'm on Medicaid now as well.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Good. We did have we purchased in

January a healthc care policy,

>> but that was costing us over almost

$1,000 a month.

>> Then in the midst of that in February, I

got approved, but then of course the

system I didn't kick in until March. And

so yeah, here we are.

>> Okay. So, with you fighting with you fighting cancer and you have a $1,900 a month income, >> you've cleaned out your savings >> and your husband's running the business, I assume. What is he making?

>> He just he is just now returning back to

work. What is the business? >> You anticipate the business is truck driving.

>> Okay. All right. And so his income is going to come back now >> part partially because he still has to come back to me every week for my chemo

treatment. >> And what will he be making part time?

>> He will be making approximately $1,000 a

week is what we're hoping for him to be able to bring home. >> Okay. So we got So now we got $6,000 a month to work with >> and um so um this is devastating. I'm so

sorry you've been through this. Um,

>> so what I want to give you permission to do is to live on $6,000 a month making

sure that your health treatments continue. >> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Until until you get this beat.

>> Yeah. When you get this beat, then you go back to work. He goes back to work and we get in we get our income back up and then we can rebuild with that.

Can I throw another wrench in the >> Sure. pile?

>> Um, my father just passed away also,

>> so I just inherited his $60,000 worth of

debt. >> Yeah, honey, you don't inherit debt.

>> Well, it's a house >> or sell it.

>> Okay, sell it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. What's it worth if you sold it?

>> Uh, I have no idea. Um, >> more than 60,000. might end up being a blessing for you.

>> Okay. Right now I'm dealing with squatters in the house trying to get them out. >> Well, a victim and get a get a good real estate agent. Get the squatters evicted.

Get the house sold. You're you're fighting chemo. You don't need to fight squatters and chemo. Let's just pick one. I'll pick I'll pick the cancer.

Let's beat that one. And uh get a get a good real estate agent. Go to ramsysolutions.com and find one of our Ramsey trusted real estate pros and tell them you're struggling with cancer. your husband's on the road trying to make a living and you got this house you need to get flipped, then you got to get these people flipped out of it and have them run it down for you and um they can pay the attorney out of the proceeds of the house to do the eviction on the squatters.

>> Okay. >> How did the if he just passed away, how come there's already squatters in it?

That's weird.

>> I Well, he passed away in March 25th.

>> Yeah, but I mean, what they were they lined up in the street ready to jump in the house? I mean, was he just not in the house? Was he in the hospital for a long time? >> He was in the hospital and he was stayed with my aunt and sister.

>> Um, so it was empty a lot and it looks like nobody lived there. Um, it the house has been in our family for four decades in good condition. It's not it's not going to be anymore.

>> No, I I know >> you can't have it. You have enough on your plate. You don't need to evict squatters, renovate a four decade old property, and um be screwing around with all that. You need to fight cancer and win. >> Concentrate on what's important.

>> This is a distraction.

>> Okay? >> Cut it loose. Make your life simple.

>> I'm going to laser focus chemo and beat cancer. Chemo. Beat cancer. When that's

done, we'll rebuild our savings. And part of what'll help us do that is the sale of this house. And that's what you got to do. Yeah.

The problem is when all this stuff start coming at you folks from 14 different directions, you got to choose your battles. A and you know, you got to pick out which thing you're going to take on first and take on the most important thing and that's called living. >> That's right. That's right.

H she's been when it rains, it pours. And I mean, she's been through it. Uh, for anybody listening right now, the the takeaway from this is, oh my goodness, do you need insurance? >> You got to have it.

You got to have health insurance. You got to have life insurance, term life insurance. You got to have a will.

you're you're moving the risk off you onto somebody else because they're all there. Everybody wants to be healthy forever. Everybody wants to live forever, but that's not the case. It's just not the case. >> There we go. That's it.

>> Oh boy. So yeah, you have to play defense. And here's the thing, the number one cause of bankruptcy is not credit card debt. It's medical bills.

And it's not medical bills from people that had health insurance. Cuz if you got health insurance, you got a deductible you meet and then you got 8020 or whatever, right? And you can work your way through that if you got an income. >> Yeah.

>> But if you're sitting there with no health insurance and you take a $100,000 pop and you're a truck driver, >> Yeah. you got >> that's getting your face knocked in. And if you're looking, check out Health Trust Financial. They can help you find the right policy for you.

If you're looking for term life, we're always going to recommend Xander Insurance. If you're looking to make a will, we're always going to recommend Mama Bear Legal Forms. They're there.

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>> Annabelle is with us in Anchorage. Hi Annabelle. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing great. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, first it's an honor to talk to you both.

Jade, I'm in the middle of your book right now. And Dave, I'm in the middle of a Total Money Makeover as well.

>> Wow. Very good. Caught >> in a minute. >> So, yeah. With that said, you guys have

been working on me for about the last six months. I've been diving into the podcast and about the last week, I

committed to the program. I I increased my income. I got a second full-time job.

And um this this morning I set up my

every dollar budget

>> so what do you think? How do you feel?

>> Way to go. So I was I was like

relieved to the point of crying. >> Good. >> Um >> cuz you have a plan and you're back in control. >> So Jade, and that was because of you.

So, in your book, I think you said that it's scary when you don't have eyes and you actually be surprised at how much fear goes away when you just actually add up all the numbers and see what it is. >> That's right. That's right. You can actually get a handle on it.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah.

Oh gosh. Sorry.

>> It's okay. What you're experiencing is is is it's exactly right.

>> It's called relief. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um All right. So, all right,

let's collect ourselves. So, I'm a local dog trainer. I've been self-employed here in Alaska for the last seven years, and I've been afraid to do this because my income is so volatile. It's hit or miss with the economy. So, I didn't want to make any more dumb butt decisions.

So, I went out like Dave said to do, and I increased my income. I um I became a

correctional officer. So, now my base income is not zero.

>> Great. >> Which is fantastic. Um but I had a question about the syncing funds. I am

going to need winter tires in October.

And while I am budgeting for that, is that considered a syncing fund or a budget item? And what's the difference

>> for where you are? I would consider that a syncing fund because generally a syncing fund is something that you cannot pay for in one month's cash flow,

right? It's something that's like, I kind of have to save up a little bit for this. And my guess is that that's what this is for you. How much are the four tires going to cost you?

>> Um 1,200. >> 1,200. Exactly. And my guess is you can't cash flow that in a single month in October when you need them. Or can you? Maybe you can.

>> So I would have to take from my margin, which is currently all being poured into my debt. >> Uhhuh. >> Um and so I could cash flow it.

>> How much margin do you have?

>> About 2,600 a month. I mean, honestly,

that's totally up to you if you wanted to do it that way. If you feel like, you know what, >> taking from the margin either way.

>> Yeah. >> You're either going to take from it a little bit for 3 months or four months, or you're going to take from it a lot in one month. >> And the the the thing that would net effect, >> but but what we're talking about is your motivation, right? Because you're in the middle of paying off debt. So, if you say, you know, I'm really I feel like I'm making progress. I love the seeing the number go down every single month.

If that's where you are right now, then I would say hold it off until October and then just do it in one shot and that keeps you feeling motivated. >> And October is not a good debt reduction month and it's the snow tire's fault and that's okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. I can do that.

>> Yeah, I like that for you. >> And in October there is a little buffer here in Alaska because we get the Alaska PFD. So that's an extra $1,000 or more that we get from the state every every state res. Well, now we got 3,600 that month in margin minus 1,200.

>> So then you really won't feel it. >> You won't hardly notice it. >> Okay. Yeah, that's perfect. I didn't even think about that. >> Alaska's going to buy your tires.

>> Yes, >> finally the taxes. Yeah, >> I love that for me. All right. Well, that was my question. Can I ask one more? Um, how would I how would I do that? Another thing that I went ahead and did was I signed up uh with Xander for life insurance. >> Good. >> And that's a budget item.

Okay, that's a budget item >> monthly. >> All right. >> That's a cost that's a cost of being alive is having health having life insurance. >> All right. >> Hey, we're proud of you, by the way.

>> You're doing so good. >> Yeah, you are. >> Thank you so much. >> You're actually coachable. You're amazing. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I waited six months to call, so I made sure I was.

>> Yes. >> Oh, well, >> I wanted to I wanted >> You're our prize student of the day. You get an apple. >> Yes. Oh. Well, thank you so much. You guys have a wonderful day. >> You too. That was fun. >> It's a great call. >> Yeah. Well, the thing is here here's what's interesting and I what I want people that are out there on the edge and they haven't decided whether they're going to do this or not. The tears and the emotion comes from not being out of

debt cuz her life mathematically has not changed a dime yet. >> That's right. >> Yet. But it's actually seeing a light at

the end of the tunnel that is for the first time in your life is not an oncoming train.

You know, we actually are going. This is freaking when you put the numbers down, the numbers look at you and say, "This is going to work." And you go, "Oh my gosh, the numbers just told me this is going to work. Oh my." And this is called hope. >> Yes. >> And hope in personal finance is the

sauce, baby. Hope is the secret sauce.

It'll make you work hard. Hope will make you sacrifice. It'll make you sell off your prized possession because you want to get to somewhere you're not there yet. Hope will make you do all kinds of mature grown-up stuff.

>> Yes. That's why we tell you, that's why we're always giving people Every dollar cuz the moment that you start plugging those numbers into every dollar and it happens just the way Dave said, you start to see, oh my gosh. Number one, you see your income in one place for the first time and you realize, oh, I I do make money. I make too much.

>> You really have been wasting a lot of it. >> Yes. And then you see the margin or some of us a lack of margin. And for the first time we see it for what it is in fact.

over. And then when you see the first step in solving a problem, Dave, is identifying that there is actually a problem. So when you actually see it, okay, I'm I'm I'm over budget. I'm in the red. Even though that doesn't feel nice, at least you can recognize the problem and now you get get about the business of actually solving the problem. And if you have felt like a rat in a wheel for so long and you suddenly

have hope, it will make you cry.

>> Yeah, it will.

>> It makes me cry thinking about it because I've been there where you're under a rock and somebody stand on a stinking rock. Hello. >> Mhm. >> And when you realize I don't have to st get off my rock. >> Yes. >> You know, I I'm not going to live like this. And and you go, there's a way to do this. And it changes everything. It's so powerful. See the the brain science tells us that bad news is not as bad as

no news.

>> Ambivalence is way more dangerous to your brain. Not knowing is way more

dangerous to your brain than knowing exactly what I got to do and what I got to fight. >> Right. Because when you don't know, your brain fills in gaps with all sorts of stories and ideas and fears and all sorts of things. >> Yeah.

We have a friend who's in the process right now beating cancer. Just knocked one of them out. He had two. He's collecting them >> and he's got one of them knocked down.

He's working on the other one.

That week is more hell than actually

fighting >> Yeah. >> the stinking thing once you know what it is. It's stage two. This is what we're going to do. Here's the treatment plan.

Here's the prognosis. You've got a year of hell a hell of you hair hell ahead of

you and no hair ahead of you and you're going to live. That's right. And but it's going to be awful. That you your brain can handle that news better than

>> I've got cancer but I don't know if I'm going to die tomorrow >> from it or I don't know if it's stage 4 one. I don't know if I drove by it. I don't know what it is. the not knowing crap, that ambivalence is way harder

from a brain brain science perspective for human beings to deal with than the actually knowing this is what we're dealing with. >> And uh if you look down and you go, "God, that's a lot of debt." That's not nearly as bad as I've got a lot of debt and I have no idea and I'm stuck and I

But when you write it down, like you said, you get that you you'll have Annabelle's reaction and you you may not call us crying, but you will stand in the mirror and cry. Yeah, you will. >> And go, "Oh my gosh, I'm going to be okay. >> It's going to be tough.

>> I might have to sell some stuff. I'm going to take a job as a correction officer while I train dogs, but I can do this. And what must be true that's not true today?" And and all of a sudden, your brain starts adjusting for what must be true that's not true today to get this freaking mess cleaned up. You automatically do it.

It's a human function.

You problem solve once you realize what the stinking problem is.

George Camel here. Let me give you three signs it's time to stop hoping your debt problem goes away and actually take action to fix it. If you've defaulted on a debt, if collectors are calling non-stop, or if you're facing a lawsuit or think one's coming, you don't just have a debt problem anymore. You've got a legal problem. And that's why I tell people about Guardian Litigation Group.

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Are you worried about being able to afford a home? A lot of people are.

A lot of people have believed everything they read on the internet, which is a really bad idea.

um because it can steal your hope and falsely steal your hope. So, why don't you sit down with a good real estate agent and find out what you can actually afford or figure out what your home is actually worth and talk about putting it on the market if you're going to sell.

When you actually deal with facts instead of internet mythology, your life will change. I promise you. The Ramsay Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust that we trust.

And they'll make your home a blessing or buying of a home, not a burden, and be a blessing because you'll be dealing with reality, not internet mythology.

See, I I if there is a reason for you to be worried about something, I will tell you. I believe in it. I'll tell you bad news. I don't mind. But I'm also not going to allow the hope stealers out there to steal your hope falsely. I mean, if you live if you make $40,000 a year and you live in Los Angeles, you're not going to buy a home.

That's the truth. You can't afford it.

>> That's right. >> Okay. That's the truth. You have an affordability problem. But most people aren't in that situation. Most people actually have just believed all the stuff that their bull crap friends are telling them. So, find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramiesolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description.

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might not be in all states. All >> righty. Today's question comes from Paul in Ohio. He says, "I'm debtree and almost have my emergency fund in place.

Once that's done, I want to upgrade my vehicle and I'll pay cash. How do I handle a dealer that I know will be pushing financing even just for a short time so they can get a better profit margin? I'm determined to walk in with cash and take it home the same day." I

love this question and I I think it's great. You're going in there, you're paying with cash. And I think the first thing is you've already decided that you're paying with cash. So there's no way you're getting into financing. So you've already drawn that line in the sand. And I'll tell you for me, I think the best way to handle it is I don't and I' I've done it the wrong way before.

But I don't tell them that I'm paying in cash until we've negotiated the price because once if you walk in and say, "Well, I've got cash and this is all I've got. I got 30,000 and nothing more." they kind of lose interest in the deal in many ways. Especially if you've made it very clear that you're not financing because they don't, you're right, they're not making as much because financing there's a kickback.

There's add-ons that they get. They earn more off people who buy who finance the car. So, I wait and I say, "Let's just

talk price and let's get the price to where we both agree and where I agree." And then I can let loose, hey, by the way, I'm paying cash. And they usually don't like that very much. and uh they're going to try to push for you, you know, even if you just finance this much, you could pay it off next month. They're going to do all those things and you're going to say, "No, thank you." And then they're going to act like they need 10 people to approve your check and they don't.

And it's just a lot of rigomearroll that you just have to say this is this is the way they're going to act, but this is the way I'm going to act. And like I said, before you even tell them that you're, you know, paying cash, that's the time where I'm trying to negotiate. Okay, can you take the document fee off? Hey, can you I don't want the extended warranty.

I'm telling them everything upfront. We're locked down on the fee and then I slide the cash over and it's done and done.

>> That will work. There's nothing wrong with that plan at all. The um the more expensive the used car, the closer I would stick to that strategy.

>> If you're buying a five or a $10,000 used car, they're not making a lot on the financing. And I would just say, you know, I'm I have $9,000 and you have, you know, you got you're asking 12 and here's nine. And if you want to take that, I'm leaving with a car. If you don't, I'm leaving with my cash.

Do you want the car or do you want these Benjamins? I mean, it's that simple, right? >> Let it put it close enough for them to smell them. >> Smell it.

Right. It's right there. Open the briefcase and go, "Do you want this?" You know, I'm kidding. But not much, you know?

And so that's the that's a cheaper car right now.

you're buying a brand new car um that's

not a specialty vehicle that's a standard model >> if you'll work it carefully you can buy those for usually 500 over invoice

>> and just go in and say I'm looking at that car will you sell it to me a 500 over invoice and just leave it at that and then they will show you the invoice.

Now there after that the reason they will do that is or sometimes they'll sell it to you at invoice because they get manufacturer rebates that they put in their pocket. Okay, in that process and then I just go I'm going to wire you the money >> and that's that on that. >> Now if you're buying uh you know something that that that is an there's a shortage on that vehicle. It's more of a specialty high-end vehicle of some kind.

They may be marking up above MSRP >> on that. Like the uh the Raptor that I drive, that Raptor R, you know, that thing, they only get a handful of those and they often sell for more than sticker, >> right? Because there's more demand >> because they can they can easily they get two per dealership or something.

They can easily get that. But that's an expensive specialty rare vehicle. Very unusual deal. So there a lot of different ways to approach this. But yeah, if you just say if you nail it down on invoice, you get the exact same treatment you're doing and you go, "And no, we're not. I don't need the I don't need the ceramic coating bull crap. I don't need the all the bull crap." Man, they can they can shovel a car dealership can shovel more bull than anybody I've ever seen in my life.

>> And I a lot of got a lot of good friends that are car dealers and and they laugh at me and we joke when we're hanging out together, Ramsey, you're the bane of my existence. But um you know cuz I can't nobody will lease a car because of you.

And I'm like, that's cuz I'm doing my job better than you're doing yours.

>> So, there you go. >> Shots fired. >> Jay is with me with us in Los Angeles.

Hi, Jay. How are you?

>> Good. How's it going? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> So, uh, the reason for my call is, uh,

I'm self-employed. I'm a contractor and,

uh, I make decent money. I've only been

doing this for going on two years now, but um I've been in this line of work

for a long time, so we've picked up work pretty quickly. Um but I'm having

trouble getting my wife on the same page. I would like to eventually buy a

house and pay off debt, but we're we've

been arguing a lot lately. Um >> what are you arguing about? as money.

Well, as money comes in, um, she has all

these ideas of what she wants to spend

on. Um, and sometimes for the sake of

not fighting. Um, I'll kind of let it

go. Like what?

>> I've been >> You mean You mean she wants to buy food?

Well, she'll buy food like >> Well, she eats out for every meal and

then >> um like she's we have uh our house looks

like an Amazon warehouse.

>> Oh. >> Um it's like >> she's overspending on things stuff.

>> Yeah. And then I mean it's like friends birthday parties, friends kids birthday parties. Let's get them this. Let's get him that. It's my mom's friend's

um graduation.

>> How long? >> I don't know. Just like anything.

>> Uh 2 years as of last week.

>> About the time you went in business and started making money.

>> Yeah. >> What does she do?

>> She's a stay-at-home mom. We have two kids together. >> Yeah. Okay. All right.

>> And what are you bringing in from the contractor deal? What's your what's your net profit that you pay taxes on in a year?

>> So last year net profit was about 187.

This year gross I'm on track to make about $450. Um but

it we don't have anything. Um I made

$30,000 gross in the last two weeks. I took home about 16. Um and we're down to

about 2,000. Okay. All right. Well, I

mean, obviously you have a marriage problem. You don't have a financial problem. And so, the two of you need to sit down together and say, "Honey, I can't live like this. You're killing me." We're going to have to get on the same page.

We're not in Congress. We can't spend like we are. And we're going to have to we're going to have to get on the same page. And yes, you need to buy some things, but I am unwilling to make $400,000 a year and be broke.

I'm not going to live like this.

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So, as we survey our audience, one of the things you guys always bring back to us is, "Hey, that you remember that call that the weird thing that happened on the air? Whatever happened to that guy?" And we always answer, "We don't know cuz we have no idea what happened to him." But lately, we've decided we're going to fix that. And a time or two, uh, in the last few months, we've taken one of those calls that when we posted it like on Instagram, it had like 10 million people view. and went, "Whoa, that's wild." Um, and we go back to the person and go, "Okay, what happened?

What did you do?" So, Jade and I took a call in November from a guy.

just let the clip explain it. We're going to play the thing. We ended up posting on uh on u on Instagram.

>> My fiance does not quite know what my

net worth is. How do I tell her fully?

And my lawyer said I pretty much have to have a prenup. >> Well, your lawyer is not in charge of your life. It's >> number one. Lawyers give advice.

They don't tell me what to do. And then I decide if a they want them to be my lawyer anymore and b if I'm going to take their advice. They don't get to tell me I have to do something. You're not the boss of me now.

So, how in the world do you get engaged and have never told her? You should have told her before you got engaged. >> I agree.

amount. She just doesn't know the full amount. What is the full amount?

>> Like close to 20 million.

>> Wow. And you're telling me there's no signs that you're a 20 millionaire?

>> There's signs when you're a 20 millionaire, Dave. Come on. >> Well, there can be. I don't know.

There's some of these people they they look like they Yeah. No, there's not always a sign, but uh Yeah. And then other times there's a sign. So, there we go.

So, we said, "Okay, the lawyer's right, even though he was a bit bossy about it. You probably do need a prenup." And we said, "You probably need to sit down with your uh like as soon as you hang up the phone with your fiance and have the conversation." And we wondered, >> "How'd that conversation go?" >> Yeah.

>> I mean, do you go uh I mean, wow, that's crazy. So, we got Brian on the phone >> and uh Brian's in Minneapolis, and this is the guy we talked to and just a little while ago. in the clip we just played. Brian, how are you?

>> I'm better than I deserve, as the saying goes. >> I've heard the rumor. So, that's the first thing I do want to know. I'm very, very curious. So, when how quickly after

that call did you sit down with her and tell her exactly that you had 20 million bucks and then what was her reaction?

>> Uh, probably a couple weeks when I saw her in person since we're not always together. And her reaction was what I honestly fully expected it to be. Oh.

So, okay. But there was no nothing more

honestly to the conversation. >> And when you say got back together, because she's she's out of out of the country, right?

>> Yeah. We're Yep. We uh are in two different countries, but I go back and forth a lot. >> Yeah. You're in the United States. She's in Canada. >> Correct. >> No, I mean, she just looked at you and went, "Oh, okay." >> Literally, that's what she said. >> 20 million. 20 million bucks. Okay.

>> Literally, she she mentioned coffee.

Like I told you guys when I got to meet you uh after this it was uh she

>> I was the guy down there met you two.

>> Well, did she suspect it? I mean because you're making 700,000 a year. Did she suspect that?

>> She knew. I said, "Did you have any idea?" And she said, "Oh, I thought maybe a million or two was her honest response." >> Okay. >> And I said, "Okay, cool." And she just said, "No, nothing changed. Not a single thing." So, >> she definitely did not accidentally stumble into a gold digger, huh?

>> No, I opposite. She's bored with your 20 million. >> She It's not going to change her life now in any way. >> There's a big old yawn like, "Oh, okay." >> Yeah, cuz remember you were worried about it because you said that in a previous relationship somebody kind of took advantage of you for your money and I remember that being a pain point for you.

>> Yeah, it was for sure. And with her it's it it's not at all. >> Absolutely not. She she's one of the hardest workers I've ever met.

>> Yep, we did on it and she again said yep, no problem whatsoever.

>> Wow. >> So, she's she's she's one in a million.

She really is. >> So, did you guys set a date?

>> Uh we hoping for August, September,

sometime in there. Uh we're not going to throw a big old shin dig. It's going to be this family and stuff like that. So hopefully sooner than later. >> Okay. So you kind of thought that this was going to be a big yawn for her and she was just going to go, "Yeah, whatever." You kind of thought that, didn't you? >> Yeah. My gut told me >> some percentage of you when you sat down was a wee bit worried. What percentage?

>> Uh I wouldn't say more than five.

>> Okay. All right. >> Honestly, >> so you know, you know her pretty good then. >> I do. I was a little worried because I don't want to say I hit it, but I never was forthcoming about it. >> Yeah, that was the part. Mhm.

>> Yeah. on it. But she she reacted how I

would have put a lot of money on. She would react. She just said, "Not a big deal." >> It it doesn't change. >> And you didn't tell us, but what was her financials? She takes good care of her money, right? >> Yeah. She she uh there's things obviously I didn't say. She has a son um on it. I didn't think people really needed to know that, but I'll say it now. And he has autism, so she he's going to be with us his whole life. Um, but she that she is the best mother, the

most caring person and she made sure that he has always provided for. >> I love that >> on it. And so she had some things that maybe weren't the smartest financial decisions ever, but she, you know, being

a single mom is not the easiest thing in the world. >> No, not at all. >> Especially Especially plug a little autism into the equation. Yeah.

>> Wow. >> So, I got to tell you, this is the most normal reaction to a mo to a really bizarre set of numbers.

Yeah, she Dave I I I would honestly how

I feel I would sign her she could have it and I wouldn't be worried she would take an RV. >> Well, my guess is you guys' life is not going to change like you're not >> No, it's it it's not. And >> a little a little strain will come off of her, but sure. >> Yeah, it's you know people I I I might have looked over the uh Instagram and seen people saying cheap this and that.

I I I value my money to be spent on experiences. >> Yeah. Yes, that's right.

>> Over materialistic things. So for us,

it's it's not going to change how we live one bit.

>> Oh, dude, we should have told you not to read the Instagram comments. >> Well, you know, >> reading Instagram comments, you understand why some species eat their young. >> Yes, I do. >> Well, you did see folks saying this is a good problem to have.

And they are absolutely right. This is a good problem. >> There was a lot of funny comments like that, like I wish I had this problem with my fiance. But yeah, those were funny comments.

But yeah, I don't read the Instagram comments. >> Yeah, it's never going to bother me, Dave. Not good. Good.

You got thick skin and honestly. Yeah.

>> Well, you you guys are you're devastatingly normal for some really weird numbers and some fabulously weird numbers in a good way. And um congratulations. I'm glad it all worked out. Thanks for giving us the update. I appreciate you coming back on. >> Yeah. And and we will actually see you.

She wants to come next time I come to Tennessee. So, we're going to stop in.

>> Oh, great. I'd love that.

>> Great. Come on in. We'll buy you a chocolate chip cookie and a cup of coffee. >> Yes. Oh, I love the I love the followup.

That's so cool. And and by the way, if you are watching and you've called in and shared something and you want to follow up, give us a call. Tell us. We want to know. >> If you're interesting, we'll put you back on.

>> But I mean, if you're if it was just boring, we have follow up with your boring call. >> That's true. It needs to have 10 million views. >> 20 million did have 10 million for on

your Instagram. Yeah. I don't even know what mine was, but Oh my gosh.

>> Wow. Crazy. So, it just goes to show we give, you know, we give advice and sometimes it can make you feel a little out of your comfort zone. It can make you feel a little bit like, oh, I don't know if I want to do that.

But there's a rainbow on the other side of this. Like, if you follow the advice, it might feel a little uncomfortable for a moment, but usually it's a happy ending here.

equation. >> There's no other possible answer. Well, I don't tell them about that. That that's lying. Okay. The target bags

under the bed are not cute, Oprah. Okay.

It's not cute. And so you were not h if

you have to hide your target purchases, gentlemen. If you have to hide your latest firearm purchase in your business

P&L because you didn't want your wife to know what you spent on that gun, that's lying. >> That is lying. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Can you tell I have discovered that a time or two coaching a little? >> I didn't do that. I didn't do that. I knew that. But but I have I have witnessed guys, particularly guys that own their own businesses, they they managed to uh Yeah, that's a good one.

Slide it slide it under the bed. Slide the Target bags under the bed and there you go. So yeah, just it's the cleanliness of honesty, the cleanliness

of integrity is uh it's essential to

wealth building and it's essential to high quality relationships. And Brian sitting down with her and she her going, "Oh, okay. I kind of figured, but I didn't think that much." But cool, whatever. Just you got to love the lady, man. What a cool lady. Wow.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Waw Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Joe is with

us in Orlando. Hi Joe. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm doing good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Thank you for taking my call. I appreciate you and Jake.

>> Sure. >> Thank you.

>> How can we help? >> Thank you. So, um, I have a financial

dilemma and I hope you can provide some direction on it. So my wife and I are

both 38 years old. Um we're blessed. We

make um in last four years, every year

we made around $1.1 million um with our

W2 and investment income. Now since last

four to five years, we are paying approximately $300,000 to IRS in taxes. So this year I decided

to consult with one of those uh tax

advisory firms and they recommended hey

we can add you in some kind of a

business program where you can take a debt of $550,000 and call it $85,000

as a u initial investment and then rest of that you can put that in tax write off and then you can claim u uh you can

uh deduct that from your um overall uh

tax payment from it. So, I wasn't sure it's a good idea to take a debt to save

taxes. So, thought I should ask you.

>> Okay. The only write- off is the interest on the debt. Correct.

>> Well, yeah, that's that's pretty much they were saying. Well, they're saying that um if if I'm taking a 200 $550,000

um worth of um debt to invest in a

business, I can use um the $450,000

worth of money as a deduction uh as an investment in the company as for a new uh Trump bill.

>> Okay. Um do you own a business?

>> No, I don't. But they're saying they can add me as an investor. I have no idea what that business is as well. So, >> okay. >> That's why I was like, you know, I no idea about the business going to be. Is it going to be profitable or not? But they're claiming that I hundreds of thousands of high paying um taxpayers do

that. So, like I don't know. I'm not sure about it.

>> Okay. Um, I'm sure run away from these people as

fast as you possibly can, >> but let me I I'm I'm going to guess at

what they're trying to do because I can't I can't tell.

>> Uh, normally you if you own a business, you have a write off. If you if you have a debt, you can write off the interest as taxdeductible as an expense of doing business. Okay? but the interest would not be $450,000 on a $500,000 loan. So,

all I can figure is they're doing some kind of section 179 write off, which you

can do in business. Um, and I take that in our business here.

>> Um, but the problem is is if the

business fails, you still have the loan.

>> Yeah. >> And you got the write off, but you've got the loan. Um, and which means that

um, and so, you know, another way of looking at this is if you had $550,000,

would you invest $550,000 cash in this

>> in order to get a $450,000 write off?

Well, obviously then you have a net of $100,000 invested in a business that you don't know anything about. Well, we wouldn't even do that, >> right? >> Much less have the debt around it. And so, um, their explanation and their

process. So, here's a here's an Let me backtrack just a minute. You're making incredible money. What are you doing for a living that's making this kind of money? >> Yeah. So, I'm a AI architect. So, AI.

>> Okay. Good for you. Well, awesome. I'm so happy. All right. So, what what I learned, and I learned this um as a young guy that was making the kind of money that you're making, and I ran into these people in the real estate world who were doing the similar things, and they all got burned and ended up bankrupt, and so did I. I didn't end up bankrupt for the same reason that these people are going to cause you to have problems. But here's the here's the principle that I learned at the time.

This was around real estate. It wasn't section 179, which I think is what these guys are doing. I'm not positive. where they're getting this kind of a write off on only a $550,000 investment. It shouldn't be that big. But all I'm guessing is is they've syndicated out the 179s. And so that's a complicated

way of saying there's a write off you can take in business and they're giving you a portion of it. So they're probably putting >> right, >> you know, that that you know, you and two other people or something in this. It's a limited placement thing. So, um,

now in the real estate business, what they did was the, uh, uh, Reagan, Ronald

Reagan, that's how long ago it was, changed the tax laws to where we could take a, what used to be depreciate a piece of property over 30 years and instead we could depreciate it over 15 and then we could use what's called double declining balance on and and depreciate you take the first year's depreciation and double it. And so you

would you could put you could put $5,000

down on a $35,000 condominium.

>> Okay, that was and you could end up writing off $15,000 that year

>> is the way the numbers worked. And so people were doing this in mass, but guess what? >> The stupid condominiums wouldn't rent for enough then to support the debt.

they ended up getting foreclosed on and all of the tax savings got recalled back

on the people.

>> And so, uh, the lesson that I learned from that, which it's a little different deal than your deal, but the lesson I learned from that is never do a deal that doesn't make economic sense and only makes tax savings sense because

it's always going to bite you in the butt. It has to make economic sense.

Meaning, if you're going to invest in the business, it's a good business investment. and I get a tax write off.

Not it's a stupid crazy business idea.

I'm going to lose all my money in it, but I get a tax write off and I'm doing this just for the tax write off. And that's what these guys are proposing to you, like my old real estate buddies did. And they got their heads taken off, all of them.

>> And uh and it was a massive bloodbath in real estate in the 80s over this. All the limited partnerships and syndications fell apart. I knew one guy had $110 million net worth. He's bankrupt, gone, took him out. S and it's

this very principle they violated is they were doing deals just for the tax write off that were bad deals.

>> And what I smell here, and I'm a 99%

sure this is a really bad deal and a

really good tax write off. Run and run because these morons are morons and they're going to give you other stuff like this to do.

>> Yeah. And you might not be able to smell it. So, uh, you smelled this one. You could tell something was wrong, couldn't you? >> Yeah, absolutely. So, even I offered, hey, what if if the business is going well, I can pay that, uh, debt off. No,

no, no. You don't want to pay off the debt. >> Yeah. You want to stay in debt.

>> We're carrying the debt.

>> Here, here's the basic thing on that. If you have a 10 thou $100,000 in debt in

interest payments, you can write $100,000 off. But writing it off means

that you deduct it from your income. It doesn't mean you save $100,000 on taxes.

It means you save 37% of $100,000 on taxes. So you put out $100,000 to the bank in interest and it saves you $37,000 on taxes. Well, that's trading a dollar for a quarter. That's stupid on a sixth grade level.

Okay? And so you never do that. If you're going to do that, just give a charity $100,000 and you get a $37,000 write- off.

$37,000 tax savings, $100,000 write off.

And you don't have to be in debt to do it. Run from these guys. They're dangerous.

Hey guys, George Camel here. You ever feel like you make good money and still have nothing to show for it? You run into Target for one thing and somehow walk out $87 later with toothpaste and emotional support candles. Just me?

Okay. Well, that's the problem. Most people don't pay attention to how they spend their money. So, it does whatever it wants.

And that's why we created Every Dollar. It's a budgeting app that helps you create a simple plan for your money. Every dollar is simple, it's clear, and it helps track where your money's actually going. Plus, you get daily lessons, to-dos, and reminders along the way.

It's like having a money coach in your pocket. Your money's been freelancing long enough. It's time to give Every Dollar a full-time job.

Carl is in New York City. Hey Carl, how are you?

>> Hey y'all. How's it going? I hope you're doing well. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> I'm 29. Hey, I'm 29. I live in New York

City. Um just signed today. Uh making

double what I was making um at my previous job. And >> congratulations. What are you making?

>> Thank you. Uh starting off at 85

um salary and and hopefully 95 after 6

months. >> Good. Good for you.

>> Appreciate that. Uh yeah. Uh so uh the

car question, it's kind of a it's a car question. Um, I've had a bit of car

trouble and I've been driving a car

solely to get through the winter over here. Um, doesn't have AC. Uh,

all these different things. Uh, needs a needs a whole bunch of changes, needs a whole bunch of fixes, but it's not worth it cuz the car is about two 220,000

miles um on it and I'm running it into

the ground basically. It was a free hand down. Uh now, uh being that I have a I'm

a father as well, I wanted to know um

best fixes. Now, in going into looking

for a car, I've looked for the past 6 months. And in short, I

Oh, I'm forgetting one thing. Sorry about that, y'all. um my father gave me

about um $10,000 go to go toward this

car um as of the beginning of this month. And so while originally I was

just looking for something uh that I keep on the road that's reliable, etc.

>> The added cash was um

>> added to what?

>> What's it added to? You already got money saved for a car? Yeah, I was saving for a car. >> How much do you have in savings?

>> I've got now I mean continually saving.

I've got about 8,000 8 to 10.

>> Okay. So, with your dad's gift, you have $20,000 to buy a car.

>> Correct. >> What's your question? Um,

well, the the car that

I suppose that answers all the questions

is about cuz I'm I'm looking at Carvana.

I guess it's shipping to New York.

>> Say it. What are you trying to spend on this car? I have a feeling.

>> About 25,000.

>> Okay. Don't you can't buy that car. You don't have 25,000. Buy a $20,000 car.

You have 20,000. >> Yeah. or can you wait until you save up the 5,000 more? Cuz when I when you tell me that the the other car was a free it was a free handme-down, you have no money in it. So if you wanted to continue to repair it for a while, you could. It's >> go junker probably bring a couple of grand, won't it?

>> Uh I'm not sure. It's It's 07 hard to

fit. >> Yeah, I don't either, but go find out. I mean, whatever you can sell it for, plus 20 grand is your budget.

>> Carl, do you have any other debt? Do you have any debt?

>> Um, just a balance transfer in June.

That's about 2,000, which Yeah, that's

that's the rest. >> Okay. >> Otherwise, again, I'm looking at Well, new job, new position. Um, how do I

>> Hey, listen. Don't celebrate your new job with a car payment.

>> That's kind of dumb. >> Sure. No. And that's not the intent.

>> Well, it's what you're doing.

>> You You think, "Oh, I hit the lottery. I doubled my income. I signed up for 85 grand, so I'm going to run down the car dealer and give them my freaking money.

No thank you.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Time to

be a grown-up. You did not hit the lottery. You have 20 grand and an $85,000 job and you live in New York City. You did not hit the lottery. Okay, you can go buy a $20,000 car. Not a dime

freaking more because you don't have a dime more. You do what you want to do, dude. But you called here. I gotta tell you, there's zero chance you should have a car payment. You have plenty of money.

You are upgrading so far from the hooptie you've been driving. You ought to be dancing in the streets of that 20 grand act like you got a dadgum new Porsche >> or save up the 5,000. So, and pay 25,000. Just do it in cash.

>> Absolutely, dude. Please don't do this.

Please don't do that. >> So, Dave, let let's talk about this because I know people people are like, "What are you saying? This man is buying a $25,000 car in cash. That's so

countercultural. It's so abnormal. The majority of Americans have car payments and they will have car payments their entire working career. Right.

>> Majority of of Americans are broke.

>> Exactly. So the correlation there is very very clear. You look at the percentage of Americans that have car payments and then you look at the percentage of Americans who are living paycheck to paycheck and suddenly the whole equation makes sense. So, >> well, you interviewed, we interviewed 10,167 millionaires when we did the Mitt Ramsey research piece on millionaires.

You know what the data tells us? Tell us the actual science. Science science, right? You know, what's it tell you?

Okay. Well, the science the data says that when we interview millionaires, they say, "What's the dumbest thing you ever did with a car with a with money?" I bought a car with payments.

>> What's the dumbest thing you ever did? I bought a new car with payments.

>> And and when did you stop doing that?

about the time I got on track to be a millionaire, which was 16 years ago, was the last time I did that stupid butt idea. And then I became a millionaire.

Yeah. >> And they they they they look back on their lives and say the turning point of me becoming wealthy, the vast majority of them, it's like 84% of them answer the question this way. It's crazy. You know the they look back and they say the dumbest thing I ever did and the turning point that when I changed my life and started habit patterns that caused me to become wealthy was getting away from car payments. If you want to be middle class, stay in car debt. You will stay

in the middle class. You will never build wealth >> cuz it will suck the bone marrow out of your money. >> Well, when you're paying 800, 900, $1,000 a month for cars. And for some people that's just for one car. Many households have two car payments. Yeah.

How how the heck are you supposed to have money to invest for the future? How can you pay for your kids' college?

>> There's an affordability crisis. I can't buy a house. It's cuz you have $1,400 in car payments because Ford Motor Company screwed you. Lexus Motor Company, Toyota Motor Company screwed you and they got you so far in debt because you had to have something shiny with toxic plastic smell.

>> So then the big question then comes is okay, how do we do it? And that's the number one question that I get when I start talking like this. You quit caring what other people think. >> Yeah, that's the that is the first thing.

Mindset has >> status symbol as a car >> and then let's talk about it practically cuz most people you can go about this in two ways for most people. What this looks like getting away from car payments looks like whatever your current vehicle is you're either going to pay it off and from that point off say >> never again. >> I no never again. And now that I've paid my car off, I'm putting a portion of money aside all the time so that when the time comes, I can trade this one in, add a little money to it, and upgrade little by little.

It's a stairstep motion that we're doing. So, that's one way it can look. The other way it can look is you're looking at you're facing down a $950 car payment right now. You still owe $40,000 and you go, "This is for the birds.

I'm just going to sell the car." And from the beginning, you're making a giant step downward because you're going from driving a $40,000 car down to maybe a eight or $9 thousand beater. Dave, >> yeah.

People at a stoplight you're never going to meet or your grandchildren

because you could change your family tree if you don't impress the people at the stoplight. >> Absolutely. And and and and let me take it back even further. The people at the stoplight, but a lot of you are worried about the people in your life.

how it's going to feel when you pull up to the cookout and you were driving a Suburban brand new and now you're driving, you know, a Honda Fit, right? And it's like, what happened to him, right? And you're thinking about that. >> It's not going well for old Dave.

He's driving a car he can afford. Oh, poor Dave.

>> Yeah, you're right. And you know what? It's worse. I think men are the worst.

>> Guys are the worst on cars cuz we we get

too much self-esteem out of what we drive. Now ladies, some of them are that way, but most ladies just think a car is a really large purse and guys, but we're real concerned about the motor and the 0 to 60 and you know

how fast is my little battery George Camel and >> the size of the rim. I don't know.

>> Yeah, there you go. >> Shows how much I know. >> Whatever that was much I know. >> No, I'm telling you guys and pickups are the worst on car payments. They're the

worst. So, sorry. Sorry, Carl, but you

just set us off on a tangent. All of that wasn't aimed at you personally, but if we could please talk you into loving yourself enough to not going into car debt. Love yourself that much, Carl. In New York City, don't go into car debt.

Listen,

your home is your most expensive asset.

And now you're ready to sell fast and for a lot of money. But in this whackadoodle real estate market, one mistake could cost you tens of thousands of dollars. Here's the deal. This ain't amateur hour. You need a pro in your corner. Someone who knows how to price your home right, market it well, and negotiate the best deal. That's where a

Ramsay trusted real estate agent comes in. To find one near you, go to ramiesolutions.com/agent.

That's rammissysolutions.com/agent

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the

debtree stage. They're here. Arie and

Randy are here. What's up, guys? How are you? Good. >> Hi. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> Uh Thie River Falls, Minnesota. What's that near? Uh we're about 5 and a half hours north of Minneapolis.

>> Okay. No, that's not near it, but Okay.

Close to Canada. >> Ah, okay. Good deal. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. It's warm and sunny. >> Much warmer. >> Life is good. And here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off?

>> $193,000.

>> Yo, nice. >> How long did that take? >> Four years and nine months.

>> Wow. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? We went from 98,000 to 161,000.

>> Very good. What do you all do for a living? >> Uh, I'm a public works employee for the city. >> Mhm. >> And I am a credit and collections manager. >> Wow. Well, great incomes. Way to go, guys. Congratulations. So, uh, goodness.

Approaching 5 years here. You've been pushing on this. >> Pushing the rock up the hill. Way to go.

And 193,000. Was that your house and everything? >> Yep. We did it, Dave. Our house. Dad,

how you're weirdos.

>> Oh, wow. >> Paid for house. Look at you. How old are you paid for house people? >> I am 39. >> Hey, >> I'm 47. Wow. >> Wow. Way to go, you guys.

>> So, what's this paid off house worth?

>> Um, about 325.

>> Excellent. Excellent. How much you got saved in your nest egg so far? Your retirement?

>> Um, four.

>> Four something. Okay. >> We're creeping up on that. >> Not far from being baby steps millionaires. >> We're really close. >> Way to go, guys. So proud of y'all.

Congratulations.

Okay. So, how much of this 193 was the house? >> That was all the house. >> That's the house. >> We had about 40,000 of baby step two debt. >> And then and then you tore into it.

Okay. So, 5 years ago, you must have run into Ramsay stuff. How did that happen?

>> Yeah. So, I actually saw a Facebook post. Um, a high school friend was giving away five copies of Total Money Makeover. Just >> Wow. >> Hey, this book changed my life. No strings attached. Um, the books were gone by the time I saw the post, but I downloaded it, read it in 48 hours. Uh, >> oh. >> And then I text him and was like, "Do you know Dave Ramsey?" And

>> yeah, I was I was actually ice fishing.

It was good old winter. And um I I had

heard of Dave Ramsey, so I I said, "Yeah, we >> And I never had I had never heard your name." >> Oh. And you said, "Yeah, I've heard of this." And whatever you want to do, honey, I'm ice fishing. >> Yeah, pretty much. Yep.

>> Mind you, in our financed fish house.

>> Yeah. >> Got it. Got it.

>> Wow. Right. >> Oh, I love it. >> Is >> So, what does a fish house cost?

>> Uh, so that one we I I bought it for 14

grand. >> Okay. >> Um, and then full circle at the end, we

were we had about 17,000 left on our house. >> Mhm. And I jokingly had said, "Uh, I'll

sell the fish house and if I can get what I want for it, we'll pay off the house and I'll just buy another fish house." So, >> I I actually listed on marketplace and

>> uhoh. >> She She didn't believe me at first, but you know, she saw the post and we sold it. >> It did sell. >> Oh, yeah. I sold it.

>> You really did do it. >> A month later, we drove to the >> the mortgage office and paid off our

>> That was that the fish house paid off the house. Yes. Completed it.

>> So you did it in person. You did the payoff in person. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> So now you're going to save up and buy another fish house in cash. >> Yes. >> Yeah, of course. >> Sure.

>> Yeah. So how's this work? You slide it out on the ice. >> Uh >> it's like a it's like a camper.

Um it's just a it's a winter camper. We we you drive on the lake and >> we park and you drill holes in the ice and we >> you sit in the warmth of the house so that you're not freezing while you're >> fishing 3 days. I mean, you're talking to a southern guy who has no idea what you're talking about right now. >> Come on up, Dave.

Come to Minnesota. So, sounds cold to me, but yeah. >> Well, no, he's in the fish house.

>> Congratulations, you guys. So, you're So, bottom line is uh Arie figures this

out, calls or Randy.

>> Which one's R? Yeah, I'm Randy. >> Randy. So, Randy figures this out and calls Arie and he's easy to get along with and he says, "Go for it." All the way to the point that he sells us a fish house and pays off your house at the end of the story. at the end of the story, but it's a long five years. >> Yeah, it was the end of 2020 and we're at that $98,000 and it's like, man, we

we make a lot of money for Northern Minnesota and like where is it all right? And then I read the book and I dug in and I'm the nerd and >> spreadsheets and where did all of our money go? And just figuring out, man, we spent $700 during COVID on eating out in

March of 2020. I'm like, we couldn't even go inside a restaurant. How are we spending that much money? And had you avoided debt up to that point >> or were you just kind of dabbling in it a little bit? >> We had regular consumer debt. You know, we had our our vehicles and the fish house and, you know, a four-wheeler,000.

>> Okay. >> You cleaned up the 40 grand right quick and then you to just keep let's just get let's get the house knocked out and everything. >> Yeah. So, we really as like I took on um a new role at work and then Arie has switched employers as well. Um, in that 5year span, we just lived on what that

minimum was in babysat 2 and just everything else to the house. >> Wow. >> Way to go. >> Wow. >> I mean, we did take our kids on vacation. >> Yeah. How does it feel to be completely

free?

>> It feels really good.

>> Weird. >> It does. >> You mention weird people all the time and and it does feel weird. It >> Yeah, >> it's so abnormal, right? Debt is everywhere. >> Do you know anybody else that's gotten out of debt company? >> I have one coworker. Yep. That's a single mom and she's a rock star. Wow.

So, >> Yep. We actually we visited here before together, Dave. So, that was cool.

>> It's It's weird to look at the checking account and the money just keeps going

up. >> Yeah. It's yours. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Just start You start stacking cash automatically now. >> Oh, yeah. You do. >> Yeah. You can go. So, what's the first big thing you're going to do to celebrate not having a single bit of debt? >> Um, well, our trip here was was a good one. Um, but so what we put off in those

5 years was um new vehicles. So, both of

us will >> You need to upgrade. We'll need an upgrade. >> Yeah. Get out get out of the hoopies in time to get some good stuff. >> Yeah. And then there's the fish house, too. >> And then the fish house that'll that'll come eventually. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good. Wow. Congratulations.

All right. What do you tell people the secret to paying off 193,000 in four years and 9 months? >> I would say the budget. We had never done a zerobased budget. Um, right. We were the can we afford this payment people, right? The normal people.

>> Um, and discipline. Discipline >> to me is discipline. You got to keep your eye on the prize. It's a long time.

It's a grind. >> It is a long time. Five years. >> You know, we got kids.

They want everything. And >> yeah, it's a grind. It doesn't seem possible at first, but it, you know, it it just keeps going and eventually it's you're there. And >> if we had told you, Arie, at the start of the process that you were going to end up selling the fish house to get to pay off the last bit, you would have told us you're crazy, wouldn't you?

>> Uh, absolutely. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. The idea the idea of being free

>> grew on you. >> It It did. still seemed like it was going to be so far away and and >> you know it's here now. So >> yeah, and now it's believable.

>> Yeah, it is. >> Yeah. Way to go. Way to go.

Proud of you guys. You're amazing. You've changed your whole family tree. >> Yes.

>> Way to go. I mean, you make a close to $200,000 a year. You know, payment in the world. You're going to stack cash and build wealth and uh you'll be able to do anything you need to do and be generous.

You'll be able to do all kinds of stuff.

Very, very well done. >> Very nice. Yep. >> Good stuff. All right, Arie and Randy from Minnesota.

$193,000 paid off. House and everything plus or

minus a fish house. 4 years and 9 months. 98,000 to 161 was the income

spread. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 >> We're debtree.

Yeah, baby. I love it.

>> Love that. >> That is so fun.

>> So cool.

>> Isn't it interesting that um that there

was some just watching his reaction when she calls, he's ice fishing. >> Yeah. >> They already had a strong relationship.

>> Yep. >> And he's like, "Okay, babe.

>> Fine. >> Let's do it." And I don't know if I I think you're a little crazy, but let's do it. >> Yeah, I'm on board. >> That that that's where the whole thing started, though, was that they had this strong basis to start with.

>> Wow. Cool people. I love it.

>> Cool.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 12:3.

No one can be established through wickedness, but the righteous cannot be uprooted.

Warren Buffett said, "The best investment you can make is in yourself." Jeff is in Detroit. Hey, Jeff. How are you?

>> I'm good, sir. How about Jeff? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um, so I'm 56 years old. Um, make

about 56,000 a year. Uh, back in December, I had filed for a Chapter 13 bankruptcy.

Um, I was one of the 390,000 in Michigan

that the state came after for back

unemployment that they stated that I owed. I fought it. I won the case. Uh,

that was one of the reasons why I was looking into bankruptcy just in case they came back and said, "Yes, you owe this." I was already ridiculously upside down in a vehicle purchase that I had made about four years ago. Owe a ridiculous amount on that still.

Um, I ended up dismissing the bankruptcy because when it was filed, the information was not filed appropriately or properly. And uh, they came back and

changed my payment from initially it was supposed to be $439 a month uh, for 3 years and then they said, "Hey, wait, your numbers don't add up." Um, now it's

going to be 700 a month for 5 years. I

only have three years left on the car loan. I ended up dismissing the bankruptcy before it was officially filed. >> No, it was filed. It was filed, but you dismissed it voluntarily.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Dismissed it before it actually was finalized at in the corner.

>> Exactly. But just just to be clear, for your future, >> you have filed a bankruptcy.

>> I've learned that. Yes, sir. >> All right. Anyway, but go ahead. That doesn't bring that didn't help anything.

That brings us to where we are. So now you got a big buck car payment still, right? >> Uh I do. Uh 625 a month on a 2014 Jeep.

Um and uh I'm in the process right now

of trying to get it uh negotiated with Capital 1 um the my finance company um

uh with whether I'm going to be able to get the vehicle caught up um and continue paying on it or should I turn the vehicle over. I mean, my credit scores are in the low fives as it is right now. >> What do you owe on that Jeep? And how many payments behind are you?

>> I'm I'm about three payments behind now, I believe, because of the bankruptcy.

Um, and I believe the last thing that I seen on there, cuz I can't access the account online because of the bankruptcy right now. Um, I believe it was right around the 16 to 17,000 mark still. Um,

and I've already paid like 23,000 on it.

>> What What do you think it's worth?

uh four or five >> oh >> thousand. Um yeah, >> I this is all of my own doing. I understand that. I just Okay, I want you to go check I want you to go check that number. That number sounds like an emotional number, not a proper number. So go to Kelly as far as the >> go to kellybluebook kbb.com and put in the information on a 2014 Jeep. What kind of Jeep is it? is uh it's a 2014

Jeep Cherokee. It's just kind of a baseline model. The last one that I looked at was $4,200.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> I'll buy that >> for Kelly Blue. >> Um what else what else is is outstanding. So you're $1875 in the hole

on that. >> Yeah. I've got about 7,000 in credit card debt um that I'm working with a debt consolidation company right now because after I canled or dismiss the bankruptcy, I needed to try and make a

quick move to get all to not have them all come at me and try and garnish and everything else. >> So, I've got those tied up with a debt counselor company right now.

>> Um yeah. Uh >> is it just you or are you married with kids? Is there is there anybody else in the situation?

No, I mean I I live in the same home as my brother and sister-in-law. It was a home that we uh acquired after my mother and stepfather had passed. >> Uhhuh. Um, we have a mortgage on that that I am a on the mortgage I am a survivor in interest >> and on the deed we did a uh enhanced life estate deed thankfully um uh prior

to her passing and all three of myself

and the two brothers are on the deed as partners in interest.

>> But >> is there debt on the house or it was paid for? >> No, it's got a mortgage. >> There is no Oh, that's right. No, it's got a mortgage. Uh we still owe 91,000 on it. Um, I had an opportunity about two years ago to get a mortgage to have

it put in my name because technically the mortgage is still in my mother's name, my late mother's name.

>> Okay. >> Um, but it was at 7.75%

interest and the current mortgage on the home is at 3.25%.

Um, I wasn't about to refinance it just to get it put into my name and increase our payment by three or $400. Okay. So, to recap, you've got the credit cards under control because you threw them with a debt consolidation and I assume you've paid that company already or signed with that company already.

>> Yeah, I have signed with them. Yes. And they are negotiating for them all.

>> Okay. So, that's under control.

>> The only thing that's out of control is we're $1,800 behind on a $16,000 debt on a $4,000 Jeep. Have I got that right?

>> Right. Okay. >> Absolutely. Yes, sir. >> So, how's your income looking? Are you I mean, it sounds like >> 27 an hour. probably make 56,000 a year roughly. Um probably more than that because of overtime, >> but uh >> Okay. So, I what I want going forward on

this, I want you to know your exact numbers cuz knowing the exact numbers is the only way that we can create an exact plan and and decide how long is it going to take. How quickly can I get the 1875 to get this car loan current? How quickly can I pay off the 17,000 or am I

going to try to What's >> the interest rate on the Jeep?

Ha, that's a good question. Um, and I

know that's a very stupid answer and it was stupid of me to sign that without even looking at it. My cousin thought You think You think it's a high rate, don't you? I do, too. >> Oh, it's a ridiculous. It's got to be ridiculously high after paying 23,000

over 3 to four years.

>> Mhm. >> But I've already paid on it and I still owe 16. >> Yeah. >> It had to have been an absolutely >> Okay, so here's your here's your options. Okay, there's three options and none of them are pretty. Um, one is you scrape together the 1,800 and you catch up and you just finish paying the Jeep off. You just work it off, put in the debt snowball and get rid of it. Okay.

Two is you get City Bank, I think you said, had this, >> right? >> Uh, Capital One. >> Capital One. Capital One. Okay. You get them to recast the loan, reset the loan, and they roll the 1,800 in and you start

fresh at with no payments behind. And while you're at it, get them to give you a decent interest rate. Okay. three

possibility is you toss them the keys,

>> tell them to come get it, >> right? >> And um then they sell it for $2,000 on the repo lot and then you have a $14,000

debt with them that you'll have to settle later, >> right? >> And you can settle a repo debt for pennies on the dollar. Of course, that you know, absolutely that that puts a monster in the closet that's going to come out someday. And so you need to be saving like crazy. About a year after they repo it, they're going to start bothering you and want some money and

they can sue you for up to the deficit, but they will settle that for about a quarter on the dollar. So you can probably settle this $45,000 in

>> uh cash and so you build that war chest over a year and you offer them $5,000 and they'll go away. $4,000 and they'll go away. Uh, and you'll have a repo, but

you have a bankruptcy and you already have a $500 credit score. I don't know that a repo does much to your credit much. Yeah.

>> It's not like you got any credit. >> Yeah, that's what at my age, that's what I was curious about. I mean, that's what I've considered. That was what I was considering was just turning the vehicle back in.

>> Yeah. If they if they don't cut you some kind of a deal that makes you want to keep it, >> then that tells me they're that I'm going to toss them in the keys and, you know, go get you a $2 $3,000 car to drive and start stacking cash. Clear those credit cards with and get out of that other mess and then stack cash and be ready for the phone call that's going to come on the deficit cuz it's going to come. This is going to come bite you later.

Okay?

>> And uh and always when you're doing a settlement, you get it in writing or you don't give them money, >> right? >> Cuz you can tell you can tell that um the bank is li a bank like that, you can tell they're lying if their mouth is moving.

>> Okay? They're crooks, >> right? >> And um and that's the business that they're in. That's why they set you up in this deal the way they did. screwed you going in. So the car company and the bank screwed you going in. You allowed it. You said that. You signed up for it.

You said that. But that's that's the reality. So you can fight through it any

one of those three ways, but get yourself a plan so that you don't, you know, so you then you get all of this stuff in the rearview mirror and you start to rebuild. >> That's what we're trying to do. >> That puts us our Ramsey Show in the book. So we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 239. When Money Feels Confusing, Clarity Matters Most | April 13, 2026


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Normal is broken common sense is weird.

So we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network. In the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is

the Ramsey show 888-825-5225

is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman joined by the incomparable George Kamel.

No bomber jacket today, just a shacket and he's looking >> want to outdo you, Ken. You're looking as dapper as ever. We're ready to go.

Let's start it off with Zay in Austin, Texas. Zay, how can we help?

Hi. I was just calling in just wanted to say I love the show and I'm new to Ramsey, but I'm really throwing myself into, you know, everything that y'all teach. I've already completed Baby Step One and I just wanted some direction on how to get through Step Two. Well, welcome aboard, Zay. Baptism by fire.

Let's go. Proud of you.

So, what's the picture? Give us the financial picture in Baby Step Two. What are we working on?

We're working through about $53,000 in debt. You said 53? >> Including buy now Yes, sir. 53,000.

All right, break it down for us. >> uh It's going to be uh, about $3,287 in buy now pay later debt, uh $785 in personal loan debt, $39,380

in uh car debt, and uh five credit

cards. One was Kay Jewelers for $1,415,

one was Navy Federal for $4,300, one was Capital One for $1,500,

one was Discover for $1,250, and another one was Chase for $1,000. And all those are maxed out except for the car the car for the the rings. I'm exhausted hearing

about this. I can't imagine how you're feeling carrying it.

Yeah, it's a lot. At least you know your numbers. That's honestly the That tells me you're actually going to get out of this thing cuz most people have no clue what's going on. They don't want to know. And Zay, you've made a bold choice to go I'm going to stare this thing right in the face and tackle it.

Love it. >> Absolutely. Yeah, it's a lot. What Tell us your income.

So, I actually just got promoted to full-time from part-time. So, now I I make 55,000 a year. And my husband's in the military and he makes 30,000 a year.

Okay, so we're looking at 85,000. You guys are joint finances, I hope.

Yes, sir. Okay, great. And is he on board with this baby steps stuff and this Ramsey stuff? Is he on board or is he freaking out thinking that you got abducted by aliens? What's going on?

Where's he at?

Definitely abducted by aliens cuz I was like, "Hey man, we're getting We're doing all this stuff, man. I'm paying We're paying off all these credit cards and then we're closing them." He said, "Closing them?" I said, "Closing them." And he was like, uh We'll come back to it. I was like, "Okay." I knew it was I knew it was one or the other, right? We've just taken too many calls. So, that's a That George, that's a now an interesting wrinkle in this process. Yeah. I want to know whose car this is.

The car's in my name. It's mine. I had it before we got married. What's it worth?

It's only worth 25,000. Mhm.

What's the payment on it?

$800 a month. Woo.

Yikes. Where's my Where's my Pepto-Bismol, George? Do you have it? I don't I don't I think we ran out. You You used the supply last week.

>> Little indigestion on that one. That $800 a month car payment. Woof. And now, did you roll over negative equity? What happened here?

Yes, I I rolled over negative equity. I had a Chevrolet which I didn't know those I obviously all of them depreciate but apparently those super depreciate. And the only reason I wanted a different car is because I commute to work an hour every day and the car that I had wasn't going to suit the drive, uh gas mileage-wise. So, I got a a 2025 Toyota Camry. That's the only car that could get you an hour each way. That makes sense.

Yeah, I was I was trying to do >> It was a joke. He's joking. You don't need a 2025 car to get you anywhere, okay? You just say you wanted a brand new shiny car. Stop shouting, Jordan.

>> I'm just You're getting a little fired up. >> a test. What do you What do you Let me ask a real quick question. What do you do for a living?

Uh I'm a bank teller.

Okay. Is there and I'm just asking, this is not the primary focus of your call, nor should it be our coaching, but I wonder if you could get a job in the

near future uh doing bank telling or something similar for the same pay that doesn't require you to drive an hour each way. I actually I actually did try

uh to find a job in my area. We live right next to a base. So, >> I see. the area is I see.

>> not the best around it and the pay the pay could I make $24 here and when I started job hunting, the most they would offer was 12 to 14 over there.

>> All right, very good. >> And what Why is your husband only making 30?

Uh he's pretty low rank. He's only an E3.

But that still feels I mean, that's close to minimum wage at this point.

Yeah, I mean, they give us BAH and everything, but we don't see it because we live in base housing. So, our our our roof overhead is taken care of. Well, that means your expenses are super low.

So, you do you have any money left over at this point to throw at the debt?

So, no. I Last year, I quit my job for 2 months and that was not the best choice

and we've been kind of drowning just kind of treading water ever since just trying to like make sure things get paid at the very least. Mhm. So, you you have a thousand bucks in savings and nothing else to your name?

No. Yeah, everything else is fine. The bills, pretty much everything checked out. >> Have you done a budget to where you can answer the question of how much margin

do you have that you could throw at this debt? And what I mean by margin is after we've paid the basics, right? So, you don't have housing. So, I'm assuming you don't have utilities or any of that stuff. So, your basic bills, above and beyond that, do you know how much you could throw at this debt every month?

Well, what we wanted to do is try to start using only my the money I make now

and then just surviving on his paycheck.

It just seems kind of hard with the $800

car note. >> I agree. we've got a hard choice to make here, which is we're going to have to get out of this car debt. And the only way to do that is to come up with the difference that we're underwater on. So, you said it's worth 25. Is that private party value or is that a trade-in value?

Uh I looked on Kelley Blue Book. For private party?

Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that means you're 14 grand underwater on this thing. So, that's the number we need to come up with. Now, do you have another vehicle you could use in the meantime?

No, sir. We're a single We're a single vehicle family. >> So, that's the one. So, we need to also come up with a little bit more money to get you a different car that is used in cash, probably five grand.

Okay. So, once you have the 14 plus let's say the five, that's about 20 grand that you need to come up with in order to get out of the 40. Do you see how that's a good deal?

I do. Yes, that's why I was saying we We want to end up He's going to be getting moved soon and we want to go overseas, so that's why we we really like, "Okay, we need to start going hard cuz we want to either get rid of the car or something like that." We want to go over there with like no debt whatsoever.

>> going overseas do for you guys financially?

Uh financially we'll be going down to a single income. So, we're hoping he'll get a little bit more rank, and we just want to, you know, have a different living experience on base and stuff.

I think this is a fantasy right now. You guys can't live off two incomes with the debt you have. And so, this idea of going overseas is going to have to wait until you guys are completely debt-free.

Absolutely. >> So, here's the math. You got 53 grand.

Usually, it takes people 18 to 24 months to pay off their consumer debt if they go hard using our plan. That means you got to be throwing 26.5 a year at this debt. That's about 2,200 a month. So, that's the real napkin math of what it's going to take, and freeing up that $800 payment is your ticket. Which means, we got to save up 19, 20 grand fast by selling stuff, working extra, living on nothing. Then, we can finally get some breathing room and crush the rest of our 14k in debt.

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All right, next is Rose. Rose is joining us in St. Louis. Rose, how can we help today? Hello, gentlemen.

Um, the reason that I'm calling is because um, I am um, I was the sole beneficiary of a life insurance policy and I am completely

illiterate when it comes to finances and um, I've never seen this much I I've never dealt with this much money. I mean, it's not like a gazillion dollars or anything, but it's substantial and um, I'm $51,000

in debt. I had a huge back surgery three years ago and I'm still catching up from

that and um, it's a truck payment, it's

um, a personal loan, a title loan and it's credit cards and medical um,

medical bills. So, that's what I owe.

Um, I'm receiving $125,000 and so, your steps are going to be wiped out and well, I mean, one, two and three

and four maybe um, are going to be wiped out, But I don't know what to do with the rest of the money. And should I pay it all should I pay all of my debt at once?

What should I do after I pay it? Okay.

Let's go back. Quick review. I want to Got you. We got you. Let me quick review.

Is the total debt everything you listed out is the total debt equaling to 51,000 or is it 51,000 plus?

That's total debt. So your total debt is 51,000.

Okay. Do you have any other money in savings?

We have no savings. You have zero savings. And is the 125,000 is that net

to you or is that before tax?

>> That's net to me. I'm

There's no tax in Missouri or I don't know the I don't know the specifics, but I know I don't pay tax on life insurance. Okay. All right. George, take over, buddy. So baby step one is a $1,000 starter emergency fund. You're right. That's taken care of. Baby step two, we're going to wipe out all the consumer debt, all 51. That's taken care of. And then you're going to build your three to six months of expenses in an emergency fund.

And we're going to park that in a savings account. A high-yield savings account is even better cuz at least it'll grow a little bit and grow with inflation. >> What's high-yield? What's that mean?

That's just a type of savings account. They're usually tied to a lot of online banks. We've got a great one with Fairwinds Credit Union who's a a sponsor of this show and they created a bundle just for our fans like you and they've got it and so you can go to fairwinds.org/ramsey open up one of those and that's a great place to just sock away money and not do anything with it right now. That's what I'm encouraging you to do. Six months?

So what's six months of expenses for you guys? To cover all of your bills.

Oh. Without your debt payments. >> After my debt That's going to be nice. Yeah. $1,500.

Wow. >> We bring home $8,000 a month. I work for the postal service and my husband is a truck driver and we we make decent money, but we've been robbing Peter to pay Paul. When I was out of work, I lost $52,000 the year I had my back surgery, and it crippled us.

And I paid for funerals of my family.

I've always taken care of everybody else in my whole life, and I've never been able to save for me because I've always felt guilt because I've had more money than other people in my family have. So, I buried my parents, I buried my brothers, and I paid for all of that that goes with it. And I don't have any family left, and it's just my husband and I, and I don't want anybody to know about this because I don't want to take advantage of the money that I'm getting. Yeah, we won't tell a soul, Rose.

It's just between you and a couple million listeners. Yeah, nobody knows. Nobody knows. But I I think you've been helping everyone your whole life, it's time to help Rose.

My ex-husband. Mhm.

I'm sorry for your loss, uh but the the legacy here is Rose is set free from the bondage of her debts.

Yeah, so what do I do? What do I do with the extra income Well, we're going to tell you. Well, let me let me lay out the math for you. 125,000 minus the 51 in debt, that leaves you with 74,000. You tracking? Okay.

Yeah. Let's set aside 24,000 in a high-yield savings account, and that's going to be your emergency fund plus because you've have been living a life of scarcity, it's time for a little abundance. This is your never going to debt again insurance plan. You understand? >> I could cry. Yes.

>> okay. You have 24,000 ready to pocket, Rose. This is huge for you. It is emotional. It's a restart. Yeah. Yeah.

It's great. Imagine that, no debt payments and $24,000 sitting in the bank, and you still have $50,000 left over. >> this part, Rose. This is where it gets fun. George, tell her what she's won.

You've won a lifetime without stress, Rose. So, that 50 grand now can be used

to do a couple of things. We can invest some of it. We can max out a retirement account, a Roth IRA for example. We can invest outside of retirement if you have, you know, near-term goals. And you can use that to give and spend. When's the last time you spent money on yourself? >> a house, and I've never bought a house.

So, where does that go into all of that?

>> That Well, that becomes your starter down payment. So, now we have 50 grand as a down payment. So, what kind of house are you looking for? What's that going to cost you in your area for a reasonable house? >> I don't I don't I don't want no more than a $200,000 house. That sounds reasonable. >> And we want a pool, a jacuzzi, a yard for our dog. Now we're talking.

Well. >> I want. I don't want nothing luxurious.

>> That's all George wants. Your list is the same as his. He wants a backyard and a jacuzzi. He's got two dogs.

>> I want a jacuzzi for the dog. That'd be ideal. You would do that.

I'm sure it's a thing. So, Rose, that's going to become your down payment money then. So, you got your 24K emergency fund, 50K for your down payment, and then keep adding to it. Cuz guess what?

You make eight grand, you spend 1,500, >> Yeah. you can sock away $6,500 a month

toward that down payment fund. That's right. >> And earmark it. And in in EveryDollar, you can actually earmark the different savings accounts. So, mark one for emergencies, mark the other one for down payment, and just start adding money to that every single month.

Okay. And >> Okay. with the nice income, George, that they've got, they should be able to get right into Baby Step 4 immediately with 15% and win their on every dollar.

>> every month >> where I'm going to need to reach out to somebody and I I bought the $79 thing.

What's the 70 What's the 70 thing?

>> Easy money. >> Yes. So, that is going to be the foundation of your financial world because you're going to be budgeting for every one of those dollars coming in so that they don't slip away into the abyss because Rose found a new opportunity to do something over here. And so, that's going to help you make a plan for all those $8,000. And I'm going to hook you up with a dream team. Number one is a trusted real estate pro. Okay, you need

someone in your corner who can help you shop within your budget, who knows Rose's goals, who understands the Ramsey way to help you do this smart. So, ramseysolutions.com is the place to go.

I I know Dave said that the credit cards aren't the end-all be-all.

You shouldn't have to you know, have a credit card to be anybody special. And

where do I Is do you have someone within your team that'll help me navigate on that app? Because I have our income in there, but I have no I haven't done anything with it since I bought it.

I have no idea what I need to do.

>> it has a coaching function in it.

>> Yeah, click on coaching within the menu, and you can actually get a 10-minute session with someone from our team in EveryDollar Pro who can help you get unstuck. And on top of that, there's a ton of group coaching, ongoing coaching you can jump into. I encourage you to do that. And then on the investment side, if you're like, "Hey, you said I'm illiterate when it comes to investing.

I don't want to screw this up." We >> We got you there, too. You can reach out to a SmartVestor Pro on our website, and they will help you navigate this newfound wealth that you're about to be building with So exciting.

I have. >> When's When's the last time you watched it?

Um it's a favorite. Yeah.

>> I I watched it a lot as >> would queue it up after you do everything that George said, cuz you know, Rose is the name of the title character, and I think this is like you

and your husband after you clear all these steps, it's your heart will go on.

Maybe maybe you go The next step is to be a millionaire. Maybe you go get a boat on the nearest lake, and you don't buy one. You're going to rent one just for the day. We're going to pay cash, and you're going to get out there, and he's going to be behind you, and you're going to do the whole My Heart Will Go On, and you're free, and And we'll let that be the end of the movie.

We're not going to continue in the plot. >> Yes, no more. Just that part. Just the good part.

Just the free >> shared the door. The debt-free part, right?

That's what life is going to feel like on the other side of this. Pardon the cheesy metaphor, but it may be one of the greatest movies of all time, George.

This is a amazing launchpad for you, Rose. I'm so proud of you. And you were very wise to be self-aware and a little paranoid and go, "I don't trust people with this. I don't know what to do with this." I'm so glad you called us. We are here for you if you need anything else.

ramsaysolutions.com, click on SmartVestor Pro, click on real estate Pro. They will guide you in this and our EveryDollar team will help you out figuring out the app. >> coaching side of it. Click the coaching button. EveryDollar is with you the whole way. You know, you won't be alone.

Rose, we're so proud of you. You were You're a blast of fresh air today. Thank you for calling us.

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Let's go to Jackie next in Philadelphia.

Jackie, how can we help today?

Thanks for taking my call. Um I I have a situation um my daughter is getting ready to graduate from high school. Um she has uh an educational IRA that um grandparents have been giving her money ever since she was a baby. So, we have that. We have about $30,000 in that.

Um she was also gifted to about 15,000

um about 4 years ago and I'm not exactly sure when, but her dad uh encouraged her to invest some take that some of that money and invest it in silver.

Um he is under the impression that it is going to go to $300 an ounce.

Um >> of insider knowledge does he have? I think only God himself knows that information. I Yeah, I keep asking those questions and it's it's um maybe in conspiracy theory type stuff. Um it's he is very confident in his assertions and hence my um struggle with trying to get her to say,

"Well, yeah, you probably have made some money recently in silver, but it's time to pull it out and put it into something less volatile. Like take advantage of what you've earned and like put it into something that you're not going to lose on." And he wants her to hold it on hold on to it for the big win and I'm seeing like it could also be the big lose. So I'm so sad I would be sad for her to lose any gains that she's had and I'm not confident in like going up against all his knowledge and >> I wouldn't call it knowledge.

I think that's a very generous word you used for his Yeah, it's a strong opinion.

Are you two married?

We're in the middle of divorce. Okay, the way you were talking about it, okay, that makes sense. Number one. And so that makes this trickier.

Because now it's a splintered situation.

Who knows what she's feeling. I don't know if she's taking sides.

So this is a little trickier, George, with with this guy. >> of emotion and baggage behind it cuz if she takes his side it feels like, oh, you're choosing now one parent over the other. Because you have definitely see that. >> You'll have different advice and because you're not the quote unquote financial guru, you feel like you don't even have a voice in this conversation.

Correct. Right? Yes. Which I'm I'm going to go

out on a limb here. Part of all of this is probably why this marriage is being dissolved.

Yes.

And so there are some really hard conversations you're going to have with your daughter where you're not going to make him look bad, but you're going to share a different perspective and do it in a calm way that isn't conspiratorial or fear-mongering, which is probably what she's hearing right now.

Yes. So how old is she you said?

She's 18. Okay. She's 18 years old and how much does she have total? Is it 15,000 total and she purchased some silver out of that?

Yes. Yeah. Okay. So how much silver does

she actually have? I asked her that and she's not exactly sure. Her dad told her that it may be up

to 30,000 right now.

But he's given her the impression that that's a static number. Like you've got that. And it's only on paper kind of thing. Okay. >> I'm not sure of her original investment.

I'm not sure what her actual number is.

>> silver that was purchased? >> Yes. Okay. Yeah. Well, I can tell you

the less stressful way to go about this is to just park that money in a tax-advantaged retirement account or even non-retirement account. It really doesn't matter. But the idea here is if this was working for her in the stock market from the age of 18 to let's say 58. All right, let's give it a 40-year run. And let's say she did all 15,000 over there. Is that fair as well?

I don't think but okay. Let's call it 10.

Yeah. Okay. $10,000 18 to 58. She never

adds another dollar. Do you understand that she just parks 10K, let's it grow in the stock market. Yeah. At a 10% rate of return, which they're going to come at me. That's just the data. If you look back in fact from 1950 to now, it's more like 11.8%.

So if you just let it ride, she'd have over half a million dollars.

Yeah. And that's without her worrying about it, without her losing her physical silver, without worrying about what the economy is doing.

And the truth is silver and gold have gone up in value in times where the economy is shaky. And they go back down in value as the stock market picks back up. But over time, if you actually look at the full picture, you will see the stock market has far out performed any of these uh commodities and assets. So I'm on team Jackie. I don't know how to convince your husband in the middle of that or convince your daughter while going through all of this. But the truth is nothing is urgent.

>> Yeah. What did you >> She does have school like she's got college to pay for. So is that >> college money. >> her school completely?

Depends on what school she goes to.

Well, so you've given us a lot of variables. What what is what is the What how can we help you the most now that we got a full picture? Is there something we didn't address?

No, what you're saying is if we do cash it out, which is what I I want her to do. And so I'm in a you know, you think that's a good idea to take the whatever gains and so you're saying it should be

put in like another IRA or because she's

going to need to take it out in a year or so. >> Well, in that case, I would just cash it out and leave it in a high yield savings account so that it's liquid for her to pay for college. Cuz what's going to happen is she's going to go deeply into debt for college cuz I guarantee you unless she goes to the community college down the road, 10K ain't getting you very far. >> That's right. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And there's no other money you're saying? No, she has 30,000 in an educational IRA. She has 30,000 educational and then this silver money is on top of it.

>> Got it. So that's an education savings account, ESA, is that what you're talking about?

Okay. So that might get her through one year potentially depending on where she goes, but we got to think about the next three. And so that's where I mean, let's keep it liquid. I don't think you're going to see a lot of growth in the next one year, two year, three year.

In fact, that money could go down. So you want to keep it more liquid because we need this for short-term goals. And I And I'm just add this, Jackie. Um she's 18 years old.

You've got an ex soon-to-be ex-husband who is going to be telling her hold it uh because I'm brilliant and I know this is going to pay off.

And then you're given the exact opposite advice. So I'm just trying to encourage you as her mother. This is not about winning the argument.

I think you just have to say, "Can I give you another school of thought?" And do what George did with you. Show her uh

how that money should be used in your opinion and then you got to let it ride because you're just in a tough situation where you got two parents. She's the one that's the victim in this deal.

And so we don't know the dynamics of who she's choosing, what she's feeling. Who does she listen to more on money? Does she listen to her dad or you? So there's so much there.

I'm just trying to make what is already a very tough situation for you uh hopefully as stress-free as possible that you got to explain it and let let It's all you can do. You what I'm saying, George? Like it's just uh Well, and hearing that she's needing to go to college and pay for it, I go, "Well, it's not an argument about where to invest this money. It's we need to invest in her right now and her current education, not what could happen in the future.

If she does this right and graduates debt-free, we're not going to have to worry about her investing for the future. She'll be just fine." That's exactly right.

right, turns into over half a million dollars. I don't think the average family with parents are saying, "You know what? I may be struggling with that.

I may be trying to get out of this, but I've got a 15-year-old or 14-year-old, and if I can start telling them this now and they go get just a summer job at 15, 16, 17, you know, it's not as

difficult as we might think. Yeah. For a

young person to come up with 10 grand over the course of three or four summers, right? >> Well, investing in general has been democratized in the last even decade to where now it's easy you can open a Roth IRA, and any child is actually excited about it cuz they saw a TikTok about it.

And so, financial literacy is all around you. The problem is there's so much noise that no one ends up doing any of it. They just go, "That's a cool. I'm going to save that for later." And yet no one's investing.

And so, if you can convince your kid that it's the uh it's the old uh what is it? The the marshmallow >> Mhm. test. Yeah.

You give a kid, "Hey, you can have one marshmallow now or you can have two in an hour." Most of the kids are going to go, "I'll take the marshmallow right now." And what this is, it's a lesson in delayed gratification. Yeah. And at 15, your brain can't fully comprehend that. You want to go to the mall with your friends.

You don't want to park it in a retirement account. But you use our investment calculator, ramsaysolutions.com, they're going to go, "Hold on, Mom. I'm confused. 10,000 turned into 500,000?

Explain that to me." Now you've got an in to talk about compound growth and the power of delayed gratification. >> in that calculator at ramseysolutions.com and punch in different numbers. I did this the other day, George, you'd have been very happy with my son my son Chase and one of his buddies. I They we were talking about it.

I said, "All right, let me get my laptop out." So, I go downstairs, bring it back up, and I said, "All right, guys, give me some numbers." After I explained it, they were losing their minds.

>> they just saw that and they were like, "That's real." Versus me telling them versus showing them. It's good stuff. >> Calculator can't lie.

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>> Hey, if you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it, George, is by using every dollar. It's more now than just a budgeting app. The plan is built into every dollar. In

other words, you can track your progress, get personalized recommendations, and coaching for your particular situation. And uh

it's like having one of us walking around with you. Uh could you imagine having George on your phone all day long? I don't think I would be delighted. >> your phone off eventually. You'd get sick of this guy. I want to know if I could get you to record all the basic responses that Siri does for me, and it would be your voice. A little snark in there? Yeah. Yeah. And just Especially before you make a purchase. I think I could talk you off a lot of ledges.

That's what we need. George as your conscience. >> like, "Hey, Google a promo code first." That's a good idea. Hey, you can start every dollar for free right now by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. Shannon's up next in Washington, D.C. Shannon, how can we help?

Hello. Um so, I'm calling because um I'm

new to the snowball method. So, you know, I'm just trying to gather everything and and and get that done on paper. Um I want I need to get a new car cuz currently I am pregnant, and my car that I currently have right now, it's been broken into a couple of times.

And there's like issues with it, so I just kind of don't feel safe having a baby in that car at the moment. Um the issue is that my car loan still has about $15,000 on it. Um and I wanted to I I called the contact the car company, and they don't refinance.

So, I would have to either have a new car loan with the new company for the new car and this current car loan, or I

would have to find a car loan company that would take care of this current car, and then also add a new car payment on top of

that, and I just don't know I'm really where to start on that, or if I should just wait until after I have the baby, and like save and try to get like a car from like an auction or something, cuz Well, let's play that one out. So, that's that's our The other two options were aren't possible and and aren't something that we're going to agree to. >> You gave us this solution sucks, and this one sucks even more, and therefore we're going to find an option C for you that doesn't involve you going into more debt.

So, you you were thinking I could work, I could save. What does that look like?

Um well, currently right now, um I do

work full-time. I make about 65 a year.

Um but, unfortunately, my check right now is being garnished due to I have the

devil of the credit card.

Um so, >> got a judgment against you from unpaid credit cards?

Correct, yes. What other debts do you have?

I have, outside of the car, um student loans, about 12K on that. Um and

uh that's about it. Again, I'm still new on finding all of my debts and pulling credit reports and stuff like that. So, those are like the two biggest ones that I have. >> Okay. And you're married?

No, not currently.

Okay. Is the father in the picture?

Yes, he is. Is he supportive?

>> as well. Mhm. Yeah, what do the finances

look like for the family?

Well, he works um he has two jobs. He works part-time, and then he has his own business. Um so, the part-time,

I would say probably about three

to like 4,000 a month. Maybe no, probably 3,000 a month. And then his other business is a transport service, so it kind of varies depending on the job that he takes.

So likely is that 40 plus grand a year?

Probably probably. Okay. Are you guys planning on getting married?

Um eventually, but um yeah, I was never really surprised to be pregnant, but um but yeah, eventually that Well, what is eventually? Do you have an idea if you were We're not holding you to this, but what do you >> We're We're trying to get to the financial facts here and it changes it drastically if you make a 100,000 versus 60. So what is eventually you think? If he was sitting here with George and I, we're just having a fun conversation, not putting you on the spot, we go, "What's eventually look like?

When would you guys thinking that you guys were going to get married?" What would you What would he say?

I would probably say in like 2 years, maybe. >> Goodness gracious.

Shannon, is Is he the one or is he just the dad?

You can be honest.

Cuz I'm not going to force you to get married to someone you don't want to be married to.

Right. Yeah, I mean, as it stands right now, he is just the dad. Um we do live

together and you know, we've been in this relationship, but as far as like it progressing, I mean, I'm not I'm not like 100% sure if it's going to be.

So you're going to continue to play married couple, but not combine finances, have zero support, and just basically do all of this on your own, while being a new mom.

Um I mean, I never thought I'd be in this situation, but Right. I know. And I I've

I'm I have so much empathy for you cuz I'm going, "This sucks so badly that if I was this person in your life, the father of your child, I'm going to go, well, time to put my big boy pants on and step up and provide for my wife who's in crippling debt while being pregnant cuz the stress of that is not good.

Not good for you mentally, physically, emotionally. So, the key to get out of this, back to your question, is we're not going to go into debt. We're going to save up with our income to get a different car.

Now, how much is the car actually worth if you were to sell it?

Um it has a lot of problems with it cuz again somebody tried to steal it a couple of times.

Um so, when I did like the Kelley Blue Book, it's probably only worth like like 5,000 at the most.

>> Did you file any insurance claims?

I didn't have insurance at the time.

Oh boy, do you have insurance now?

For that car, no.

Shannon, you are putting yourself at huge risk.

I would cut everything down to the bone before I went without insurance.

Yeah. This is bad. You make $65,000. Is there

not a dollar left at the end of the month?

No, well, I mean there is but I had really bad um payday loans and so that

was taking a lot of my money um at at one time and I mean there's still um some of them that are due but I'm So,

we're adding You You told me you had car loans, student loans, and credit card judgment but not payday loans. How much is on the payday loans?

Um well, I had I'd probably say in total

probably like 7,000. Okay. Let's get real clear on

that credit report. Let's lay them out smallest to largest and then you're going to make a budget for the first time. I'm going to gift you every dollar, our premium budgeting app, so that you can make a plan on purpose with this app and then stick to it.

So that if you get four or five grand in a month, you're going to know where every single dollar is going. And all you're going to do is cover your four walls right now, food, utility, shelter, transportation, and insurance. You're going to get car insurance today. You're going to go to Dave Ramsey Solutions.com and our team can help you find the coverage that you need in your budget.

That's your number one piece of homework. And then after that, it's that every dollar budget. Set it up. Our team will walk you through it. You can set up a free coaching call right there in the app to jump on a call with someone from our team if you get stuck. And then it becomes a game of how much can I save?

How quickly can I save? Because we have some urgency here with this baby on the way. When is the baby due?

In August.

So we only have a couple of months to do this. Which means in the meantime, the baby might need to survive in this vehicle.

And the good news is you're not going to leave that baby alone in the car. The car's not getting broken into while you're in it, right?

Right. Yeah. And so as long as it's not dangerous, it's not overheating on the highway, you're going to have to drive this car for a season until you have enough to get a different car. Yeah.

And Shayna, listen, you're going to talk to other people that are going to tell you that we're crazy.

And that you need a safe brand new car and you'll just figure it out. But I'm going to tell you something.

How would you describe your stress on a scale of 1 to 10 related to money right now? Uh, like a 12. 12. Okay, do you think that's good for your little baby and your body?

No. And do you think taking on another car payment that's even bigger is going to help in any way, shape, or form? To help you get out of this mess? No. No.

Not at all. We might be the only people telling you the truth. >> Exactly right. And you can do this, by the way. >> We're rooting for you. We're not trying to be harsh on you. We're trying to give you the reality so you can face the facts and then take the proper next steps. So jump on Dave Ramsey Solutions.com, get that auto insurance, we'll help you get that every dollar budget set up and you will feel so much better just being able to look at the numbers in reality.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside.

We're here for you today. 888-825-5225

is the number to jump in. Chase joins us in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Chase, how can we help today?

Well, hi, sir. Um, like you already know, my name is Chase. I'm 20 years old. I currently work as an auto body technician, which means um, as

a flat rate employee, my my income is quite variable. With that

being said, I'm about $30,000 $30,000 in debt spread across the

$16,000 poor decision toolbox.

Um, about $11,000 a little more to my

grandparents interest-free.

And the rest is all on credit cards and whatnot.

My main question is is I have a horrible

issue with a spending problem whenever I'm doing good at work.

And if I were to get stressed out, I just go and blow my money in retail therapy. And

what I can pay off in debt by the time I

end up having a slow period in work like now around spring break, nobody's getting their car to fix, they uh I end up underwater and barely able to make my bills.

Um, >> Well, the first thing I want to say to you is good on you for calling us and

calling out what's going on. I mean, that's the self-awareness is awesome, Chase. And I think that's the first step to you winning.

You know, I just want to applaud you because you know there's something going on inside of you that when something goes wrong, stress, whatever, you immediately go buy something to make yourself feel better. That's a big deal and I encourage you to keep digging into that. And and and come up with tools, whether that's to go see a therapist or just do some hard work to go, "You know what? I'm going to create some accountability in my life.

Um, I'm going to have somebody that I can call and that can talk me off the the uh retail therapy ledge, okay? I just wanted to encourage you on that cuz that's half the battle, okay?

let's let's get into this debt. Did you Let's let's talk about lay it out Get give us the smallest to largest.

Smallest to largest, um, the the smallest are some payment plans like

Chase Pay in 4 and Cash App Borrow that

I use on the slow weeks when I don't have enough to cover my bills that I have to tap into those to, you know, buy food. >> a great solution for that. Can you delete those apps?

Um, I Well, the Chase is my Chase banking app, so I >> Stop banking with Chase.

Stop banking with Chase? >> Yeah, switch banks.

Okay, and the Cash App is that that's how I pay my grandparents. This is the Cash App because I can't use Use Venmo.

>> Think about it. If this was a casino, you'd be like, "Well, I should probably make it really difficult for me to go into the casino again." What kind of stuff are you buying?

Um, really it's anything. I mean, it it

used to be uh, it used to be tools through Snap-on

and all the other tool brands, but I've I've gotten myself away from that and >> What are you What are you What are you What are you buying? Give me a quick Give me a quick list. There's a reason I'm asking this.

Yeah, clothes, video games, uh I'd sell it. Yeah, that's right.

>> you need a behavior George is locking in on something. He inspired me to ask that question. You've got to make some changes. That's why I said change the bank. Delete the apps.

Uh, you've got to make some changes to try to put up some hurdles because you're just so quickly salving your wounds by spending. So, I was hoping you had some tools. I was thinking a guy in your line of work had some really expensive tools that we could sell and even if it's 80% of what you bought it for, that's real cash to create some initial momentum and actually I think it's ritual. I'm a big fan of rituals at times. When the rituals are tied to um change in emotion.

And I think you need to go sell some stuff. Even it's clothes. Even you got to go take it to a second hand store and get 50% of what it was or whatever that is. I have no idea. But >> There's like Poshmark and all kinds of apps you can use to sell stuff. So I would only download an app if it's going to make you money, not cost you money.

>> Ooh, that's your new filter and value.

That's good. That's good. And then I'm I'm confused, Chase, cuz I know we got a lot of great auto body shops around here. I can't get a car in there.

They're like, "Hey, we got a 2-week backlog." And so I don't buy that work is so slow that nobody's bringing their car in. I don't know what that says about the shop you're working for, but I would find one that stays busy.

Yeah, and that that has been the problem, too. I I actually made that decision a few months ago. The The last shop I was at was slowing down because of poor management and whatnot. So I moved to this new shop. >> That's why shops slow down, not because cars stop breaking down randomly during spring break. >> Yeah, good point. So there's problem number one. What are you actually making a per month on average?

On average, um about Like Like I said,

it's so hard to know. On a On a good month, I'm making 6,000. On a bad month, I'm making 2,500 to 3,000. Okay. And are you living at home?

Uh no, I I have my own place. Okay.

What's your rent cost?

$750 a month. Okay. That's reasonable

for your income, so that's not the issue. So here's what we need to do. On the good months, you need to go, "That is not my money to spend. That is Chase Bank's money." That is the buy now, pay later company's money, cuz it's really not yours.

You signed something that said, "I will pay you this money back when I have it." Right?

Right. So now it's an integrity issue.

So just make it an integrity issue and then remove all of the reasons you could go spend that money. And that means deleting the apps, adding the friction, cutting up the credit cards. Have you actually closed these credit cards and closed these buy now pay later accounts?

I have not. That's your next homework assignment. You know how I've stayed out of debt? I was 40 grand in debt when I was 23 years old, Chase. And when I got out, you know how I stayed out? I didn't give myself the option to go back in.

>> Mhm. I didn't have a way. I froze my credit with all three credit bureaus cuz I know I'm able and willing to do stupid stuff with money.

So, that's the kind of value line in the sand you need to draw for yourself because the good news is you are so young that you have so much time to make up for the stupid tax. And one day you'll look back and go, "That was cute.

Remember when I was in 30 grand in debt?

Never again, man. I learned my lesson." Yeah. And I'm going to tell you something, your way out of this, Chase, is getting to a better shop or picking up a second

job where there's a good run shop and they need quality hands. I just think you have way more money you're leaving on the table than you realize.

>> You could go detail cars in people's driveways and make 500 bucks in a weekend.

Okay. >> True or false?

True. True. Definitely true.

>> Chase, we're trying to encourage you.

You are not that much in debt. I mean, the kind of calls we get, I'm telling you 30 grand for somebody like you who has ability, who has time, and I think

you got the gumption now. Again, that's why I applauded you right at the start of the call. You want to change, don't you? I I really do. Okay, you know what's on the other side of this is you deciding to do what George said, but then actually go work yourself silly. And when you have a bad day, instead of retail therapy, you go work somewhere.

You got me? I I got you. And

um one one one more question. I I want to let you guys >> We don't have a time for another question. I apologize, but you got enough to work on. You got enough answers here. Go back and watch this call that as your homework assignment, and don't do it because Ken and George said to. Do it because Chase's future is worth it. That's the new value you have for every single time you go to spend money.

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All right, let's go to Frank in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Frank, how can we help today?

Hi, this question is about my 10-year-old daughter. My household income is about double that of my ex-wife's and lately my daughter has been saying to me things like that's so expensive or

she wants to pay for things that are my responsibility like clothes and shoes for money she's gotten either for birthdays or holidays or for chores.

What can I do on my end to help her with what I think is just a worry about money

that maybe she's getting from uh my my ex-wife's situation.

Yeah, that's really interesting.

Do you Do you talk about money around

her when you were married even just a few years ago she's 10 so she's been picking up stuff you know probably even at six and seven begin to pick up anxiety around money and I wonder if before you got divorced was that situation where she would have overheard arguments about money or do you think it's all from your ex-wife talking about money in a fearful way always telling her we don't have enough we don't have enough. What do you think is driving the fear?

Well, we we've we've been divorced since she was around five. Okay. So I I think maybe just that situation. So really it's your ex-wife you think is is scarcity mindset

based on reality and talking about it a lot around her?

Maybe. I'd ask. You know what I would do if I were you and again I I'm a dad.

I if I was in your situation, I'd sit down with her and go, "Hey, honey, you know that dad can buy that for you.

I have I have more than enough money to be able to do these things for you, but you're worried about it. Can we talk about that? What causes you to worry about it?" Just real don't put her on defense, but just real You know how to connect to her. I would I would get her to talk to you about it. And and you What you want is her to tell you her fears and worries, but more importantly, you want to know why she's worried and what's causing it. And that you need to address.

Okay. And then, when you buy something for her, go, "Hey, honey, I want to reassure you. I've I've got plenty of money. Dad's very smart with money." Use phrases that one day she'll understand. Like, I budget. You know what I mean? Just talk to her like she's an adult, and she'll pick up a lot of it, but what she's looking for is reassurance.

And so, when you go to buy her something, she's projecting onto you what I guess she's picking up from her mother.

George, am I off on this?

>> spot-on. It reminds me Rachel Cruze wrote a book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and she walks through these different money classrooms we grow up in, and this is the anxious classroom,

like we're we're getting at here, and she's she's worried about There is a scarcity mindset, and the best thing you can do is to reframe this whole thing as, "Hey, what I'm doing for you is a gift, which means you need to do nothing in return. This is an act of generosity.

This is not a sacrifice. You're not putting me out. You're not a burden.

This is something I want to do as your father, who loves you." And I think that's the best thing you can do for her is realize this isn't your money You don't You might have financial worries one day. Today's not that day, sweetheart. Daddy's got you. All right.

And she's so young that she can't fully even understand what's going on. And so, these conversations will continue, and they'll get a little more intense as she gets more age-appropriate.

And then teach her to give, too. I think that That's one of the most freeing things you can do for someone who's anxious with money is to show them that if they give it, it will actually lower their anxiety, and they're not going to run out of money all of a sudden.

Okay. I think that's it. Money comes from work. Dad works hard. Dad stays out of debt. Dad put money in savings, and now he has the ability to be generous with other people, especially those that he loves. And you are one of those people.

And Frank, you're a good dad, you know?

So. Mhm. Thank you. Keep taking care of your money. Are you solid financially?

Yes. No debt?

Well, fin- finishing up a tiny bit.

What's that? Finishing up >> Finishing up a tiny bit. Okay, great.

So, hey, that's the other thing. Get out of debt. Have a strong emergency fund.

You know what I mean? And all those things are going to give you more peace.

And here's what The reason I asked that, Frank, is not to put you on the spot. It's to show It's to tell you that everything we just said will help, but what will help even more is if she feels zero tension coming off of you around money. And if you're debt-free with a fat emergency fund, and a great

retirement plan, you're going to put out

an ease that she will pick up on. Make sense? >> is caught than taught, as we say. Yeah.

Okay. That's the last piece of it, all right? And I don't know on on both sides, because there's a divorce in the mix, does it feel like you're trying to buy her love? And I know you're not doing that, but does it come across that way when mom feels small now because dad bought her all this stuff?

Is that part of it?

I don't know. No, I don't think so.

Okay. Yep. Well, take her out on a date. Do what we told you to do.

And then explain to her, "Hey, I'm in good shape. This is what I'm doing." And begin to just talk about what you're doing. "I'm going to be debt-free in 4 months, and then this." And it like just talk to her and and and she's going to feel that and and more importantly learn what you're doing. And we hope she learns yours because and we're not trying to create a contrast here, but if

she experiences you very differently on money than she does her mother, uh hopefully she's going to go dad's modeling the way and you are the model and that's what she goes after. So, thanks for the call, Frank. Anthony's up in Cincinnati. Anthony, how can we help you today?

Thank you all for taking my call. A little bit of background, I turned 52 next week. I've worked for Dave's absolute favorite employer, the IRS, since 2008 and I did

My plan and my wife were to retire in 5

years uh from the IRS. That would give me the full medical, dental, all that good stuff. This year I was moved out of IT with a

whole bunch of other folks to reviewing business tax returns. I hate this job.

Mhm. You didn't sign up for that, did you? No, I signed up for IT and a whole bunch of us just got moved over. Yeah. But, what I'm trying to get at is I'm looking at changing careers and studying for my SIE exam and moving to like a Charles Schwab type place.

And the point of my call is I'm just looking for permission to make that change. Yeah.

Well, it's not something that I can give, but I will tell you that you absolutely should change because

just go down the rabbit hole tonight on

what stress in a job that you can't stand and it's a different kind of stress. It's a I have no purpose in this. I can't stand it. Just go do the research on what it does to your body, what it does to your mind, and that will be I think the last domino that needs to fall. I don't even think you need it, but I would go do it.

Um I absolutely believe you should transition to something else. You're still a young guy. You still have a lot of life left and a lot you can give and quite frankly a whole lot more money you can make. So, I absolutely would get out

of there as soon as I could. I would not stay around for health benefits

and pensions. I just never would.

>> health is going to decline in the next 5 years. >> not going to trade 5 years of misery for

really good eye care, dental care, and all those things. When you can afford that in a better gig.

The only additional piece of information cuz my wife is pushing in the same direction you all are is I'm probably going to take about a 100k pay cut per year to make this transition.

Well, what are you making now?

170k.

And you're going to go down to 70 you think if you move into the financial sector?

I I will take an entry-level position just to get my foot in the door and work up from there, but yeah, I'll I'll take Well, it's never it's it's never the ideal situation. My question is is if that happened today, could you live off of 70?

Absolutely. We've been listening to Dave and following him for 20 years. So, we've got We're We're totally debt-free including the house. We've got the emergency fund and all that good stuff.

>> do you have in the nest egg?

>> Uh the nest egg is 750k in the TSP and

55 cash liquid. Fantastic.

>> going to I'm going to say yes and

I'm okay with you taking the cut if you take your IT experience and you do some freelancing for maybe 6 to 12 months until you get get your sea legs if possible. I know that's with an asterisk, but maybe maybe we could get an uh $50,000 in uh some freelance work with

your technology skills. And maybe you go get a a great IT job in the meantime and work on your licensing and then you switch over. >> That's right. That's a nice bridge, too.

I like the bridge here, Anthony. That's what we're telling you. It makes it less That's a cliff. I got to jump. That's right.

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Today's question comes from Ryan in Montana. I've been following the baby steps for 2 years and it feels incredible to no longer be living paycheck to paycheck. I no longer use credit cards and want to close them as part of embracing a cash-only lifestyle.

What is the wisest way to approach this?

Do I close them all at once, or is there a smarter, more gradual approach I should take? If I close them all at once, are there any potential risks I should be aware of?

Great question from Ryan. Very astute.

>> Yes. I rarely use that word, but this feels like the perfect >> getting ready to compliment you on good usage there. Sometimes the words just come to me, Ken. >> And it does.

So, um that the heart of the question is he wants to follow the plan. He's worried about essentially his credit score. That's really what's at risk here. Uh the credit score going down as you close all these cards, because your credit score is partially based on how many accounts you've had open, how long they've been open.

They're very upset that you've abandoned them, and they will punish you with a lower score temporarily. Now, it's not going to tank your credit. You're not going to have an issue like renting an apartment, but in the meantime, for a couple of months, it might dip a little bit. And then what will happen if you truly close all open accounts that have to do with debt, you will have no credit score after about 6 to 12 months if you do it right.

That's what happened to me. It's what's happened to several uh people out there, millions now, that have followed this plan that are credit invisible, as we call them. So, your credit score becomes indeterminable, and then you just live your life. And renting a car every rental car company has a debit card policy. When it comes to renting an apartment, they'll go, "Hey, are you a criminal? Nope. Great.

You'll have to pay a little bit more in the deposit, but sure, you can rent from us." And even with a mortgage, I went through a process called manual underwriting to get a mortgage without a credit score.

And it was all kind of a nothing burger, Ken. They kind of made it out to seem like you cannot live without a credit score. You can't live without a credit card. And I realized very quickly it was a farce cuz they've never done it. Yeah, it's absolutely right. >> Just go for it. I don't think you're going to regret it on the other side.

And uh if you could got to do it all in.

That means closing all accounts that have to do with debt in order to actually have no credit score. Yeah, absolutely. Good advice. Let's go to Jim next in Dallas, Texas. Jim, how can we help today? Hey guys, how are y'all? Good. What's going on? Hey, so uh I'm switching employers in 2 weeks. I got a better paying job. Um but I uh a year ago, unfortunately, I took out a 401k loan. Uh I've been paying on it. But I owe about $15,675

uh left on it. Um and I'm not sure what I should do about that cuz I don't have that money.

Uh and uh it's going to become it's going to default basically if I don't pay it off within like 30 days. Yeah, did you get the actual details in the fine print?

Is it 30 days from today or when you You already put in your 2 weeks?

Yeah, it's from date of separation. So um when I when I leave the company, 30 days later. Okay. So what day is that?

Uh I think it's like May uh 22nd.

May 22nd. So we've got a little over a month. How much can you save up in a given month?

Um >> a bonus from the employer? Is there anything like that? No, no bonus. I I'm putting about 6,000 away in uh for the debt snowball right now. We're on baby step two. So I I can, you know, I can ramp that up a little bit, but not enough to cover the gap.

Mhm. Do you have anything you could sell, or is there anything you could do as a side hustle? Well, we've sold everything but the kids already. But I'm not sure. >> Yes. Okay, spouse is working outside the home as well? Yes, indeed. What is the

what's what income is going to roll through your fingers in the next 30 days? Um we're we're doing about 12,000

household income right now. I think I it should go up to about 13.5 with the new role. And how much do you need to survive and pay the bills and minimum on debts? Uh it's about 4,500. Okay.

So that's eight grand you could pay.

Yep, that sounds right. Right? And that's if that's just if we just use that income and do nothing else. We don't find extra stuff to sell, stuff to flip, do side hustles, get the whole family involved here. So the best option is obviously to pay the balance back within the window. I would find out generally it's a 90-day window, so I'm surprised this one is a 30. I would see if there's any leniency with that. If you go, "Hey, can you give me 60 days?"

Okay. That's your best bet, cuz in 60 days you've got it covered.

Yeah, somebody had mentioned the idea of a QPLO and paying it back by the next tax year. I've never heard of that and I'm Yeah, I'm not familiar with the old QPLO. I'd have to look into that. But the worst thing you can do is to do nothing and let it default, cuz you will lose 30 to 40% of that loan balance to the IRS. So that will just absolutely destroy your wealth. So I would just act like this is

my one goal in life is to pay this back.

I make this like a Liam Neeson movie.

Wow, you're on fire right now.

>> of intensity from Jim. I agree.

Yeah, but you can take it from my 401k.

Exactly. You got 40 days to recover to

recover this money and get the IRS and this employer off your back. Thanks, Jim. Appreciate the call. Let's go to Paige in Kansas City. Paige, how can we help today?

Hi. So, me and my fiance just bought a house last year and we both have car payments and his student debt was um

handed off to a collection agency. So, we have a couple different loans that we're trying to pay off and I know in the baby steps it says that like pay off your smallest loan first but

our smallest loan doesn't have an interest rate so we're trying to figure out what the best route of action is to

like what loan to pay off first.

Why don't you lay those out lay those out for us, smallest to largest? So

we live in a um oh, you said smallest.

So, our smallest is the student loan.

It's $7,034.59.

$162 a month with 0% interest.

My fiance's car is at $9,645

left on the loan. It's a $400 a month payment and it's at a 17% interest rate.

That's the one that I would like to pay off. And then my car is 28,000 left with

a $600 a month payment and a 4.66%

interest. And our house is 50,000 left with a 630

around a month. We pay bi-weekly so sometimes we pay three times a month.

It's at a 10.75% interest.

What do you mean by house?

So, we live in a trailer house but we also have lot rent because we rent the land that our house sits on but we own our actual house. Okay, cuz this this trailer is going down in value so it's more like a vehicle. It's not going to appreciate like a traditional home.

So, here's the truth. Interest rates are not your problem.

Mhm. It's financial behavior that's the problem. And so, that's why the debt snowball works because if you were trying to attack interest rates and doing math here, we wouldn't have gone into all this debt. So, how much do you actually make per year?

My fiance it's a little bit harder to determine right now cuz I just switched jobs. Um I'm a nail tech now, so I'm making 18 an hour flat rate with 40 hours guaranteed a week. Okay, so you're making about 38 grand.

And you have a $28,000 car.

But I also make a lot in tips. I average between between 10 to 20 per client and I have about five to seven clients a day. Okay, so you're making closer to 50 or 60? Is that what you're telling me?

Yeah, around. And I have >> too much of your world. Mhm. If you sold this car, it would really alleviate things. And the second thing is are you guys combining finances? Are you just paying off your debts and he's paying off his? Are you guys all pooling money together?

So, we're we're trying to um we haven't done it yet, but we need to combine our bank accounts and we're doing 50/50 and my car I pay and his car and his student debt he pays. This is a real problem.

You guys shouldn't be combining finances until you're married cuz you're creating a real mess.

Okay. What what if something happened?

He leaves and you just paid off his car debt while you still have a bunch of >> Well, I'm not I'm not paying on his car and he's not paying You guys need to focus on your own debts right now until you're married and then combine finances and it will get a whole lot easier and less messier at that point. But you got to start owning up and stop looking at interest rates and start looking in the mirror.

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rates also dipped uh to 5.4 point uh 5.43%, excuse me,

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Or you can click the link in the show notes. Let's stay right here in Nashville, where Catherine joins us. Catherine, how can we help today?

Hi. Um thanks for taking my call.

Um so, uh about a year ago

uh my husband and I decided to put some money Well, to make put some debts into Freedom Debt Relief, which is a I'm sure you know, a debt consolidation. I know that you guys do not um uh

um recommend recommend. Thank you.

I'm a little bit nervous. Oh, it's all good. Take your time.

That you guys don't recommend those. Um but it was an emotional thing.

My husband and my had surgery and like just the debt was just racking up. And

Freedom Debt Relief, the salesperson being the salesperson he is, like I actually said, you know, you know, I know this isn't Dave Ramsey recommended and he was like, oh, no, Dave Ramsey actually does recommend us.

And I was like, I didn't say anything, but I knew that he didn't. But my question is >> have said, oh, he does, I'd love to see that clip or that article where he recommends that.

Oh, yeah, I should have said that.

>> Well, there won't be a next time, so I can't say use it next time, but Yeah, I know. Okay, so you signed up?

>> Yes, we did about a year ago. And what my question is, we're doing a much better financial position now.

My husband got a new job and we're just in a better financial position. And I want to start doing debt snowball. And first it's a thousand dollars and uh you know, all those baby steps. Mhm. Um, but

I'm wondering, should I take out

um what hasn't been paid off already

in the Freedom Debt Relief?

Yes.

Yes. And >> of the process cuz you can do what they're doing on your own without the fees and the hassle.

And without tanking your credit, which they've already done. That part's Yes.

>> We can't undo that. >> tanked. Yeah, but all they're doing is negotiating with your creditors after you default.

And coming up with a lump sum. You do that yourself. That's right. If you couldn't pay, you just wouldn't pay. And then goes to collections and then you say, hey, would you take four grand for my ten grand debt lump sum if it's paid market paid in full in writing? Great.

Done.

Okay. And should I because they have um um because the percentage they were taking um the Freedom Debt Relief, they uh basically I was saving like I did the math. I was basically saving like $100 or $200, which is not great.

Um, the ones that they are currently paying though on, should I leave those in there because there are two that have

uh that they are currently paying on that

um that they negotiated. How many more payments are there?

Um, one is uh it's a total of 36 and I

think I've paid four to six. I'd have to

look on the um uh and the other one um it has like 24 and I think I've paid like four or five.

Okay. I would read the contract to see what you can and can't do and read the cancellation clause to figure out what you have to do to get out. But, I would just tell them, "Hey, I want to get completely out of this." And you might need to do a written notice. It's like a Planet Fitness. You They get you in real easy, but to get out it's an act of Congress. So, Yeah. I would definitely get out cuz you can do this on your own.

It's going to end up being cheaper for you in the long run even if they ding you with some fees on the way out. But, these programs they over promise, they under deliver while ruining your financial life.

Right. >> But, when you're scared and overwhelmed, their Instagram ad magically pops up to save you.

Yeah. So, I'm sorry you fell for it, but I'm glad you're getting out. Oh, yeah, I know. I'm definitely getting out and um

thank you for taking my call. Um, I hope nobody else falls for them. >> There's the warning from Catherine. We love that.

And it's a good reminder, Ken, just to talk about what these companies do. So, the way these companies work, these debt If you see debt relief, debt settlement, anything that promises like debt freedom without you actually doing the work, here's what they do. They tell you, "Hey, stop paying all of your creditors. Instead, send us those payments." What ends up happening is you default on the debts, it tanks your credit score, and then they try to negotiate a lump sum settlement, hopefully.

They can't guarantee that. Sometimes it doesn't happen. And the truth is you can do all that yourself without all of their crazy fees and sales tactics. And it's what you should do.

And try to stay current on your payments if you can, cuz tanking your credit is not going to help you at all financially. Mhm.

>> Avoid. Rachel is up next in Redding, California. Rachel, how can we help?

Hi there. Can you hear me okay? >> Yes, loud and clear.

Okay, good. Um my husband and I live up

in rural California, northern California, and um he has a blue-collar job, and we have four kids,

um eight and under, and we're just coming up on our 10-year anniversary.

Woo. Um we are on baby step um

four, well, I guess five. We haven't saved for our kids' college yet, but we're thinking about it. Um and we're just thinking about doing an anniversary trip, and I wanted your guys' feedback on I guess I'm feeling kind of guilty. I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I don't make a lot.

Um I've been DoorDashing a little bit, but I kind of wanted to see what you guys thought about an anniversary trip, like I feel guilty for what I'm thinking about saving. What What are you thinking about spending?

Sorry? What's the number? How much do you want to spend on this trip? Um we were thinking around 5 to 6,000. Okay. How long is this trip? Is it like a week or two?

Um yeah, we were thinking maybe 10 days to 2 weeks. Um Okay. Yeah.

>> I can tell you right now, uh 10 days to 2 weeks at 5 to 6,000 is not a, you

know, >> That's a deal. >> That's That's You're You're You're not going luxury, you know? You're You're being smart about it. You're making the most of that money. Am I right?

Yeah. Yeah, we'd be definitely staying at really cheap places and doing stuff.

>> stay at a Motel 6. Let's make this a

trip to remember, and not in the wrong ways. >> Well, yeah, let's get to that next, but let's at least take off the guilt.

There's no guilt for you guys saving up $5 to $6,000 to celebrate your 10th anniversary. It's fantastic. And there's no guilt in you being a stay-at-home mom and feeling like, "Well, because I don't contribute as much, I feel like I don't You deserve it as much as anybody." How long Have you already saved up that money, or are you in the process of it?

Um we just This is just a a plan we've had in the last couple weeks, so we're just thinking about saving and um trying to put a Is that going to stress you guys financially? In other words, where are you going to have to be really, really tight to be able to save that?

Um yes. Yeah. I don't have a problem with that, either. What does your husband make?

Um he makes about 4,500 a month. Um

and with my DoorDash, I've been making around 1,000 a month. Great. So, when are When do you want to book the trip?

When do you actually have to pay for it?

Uh fall sometime.

Okay. So, are you willing to continue the DoorDash and use part of his income to save up this five grand over the next five months?

Yeah, yeah, I think so, yeah. I think that's okay. >> If it's just your DoorDash money every month, sometime in the fall, you got some flexibility, you can cash flow this anniversary trip just from your work, your your part-time work. You shouldn't feel guilty. You should feel proud of yourself for that. Yeah. Are you setting this money aside in a separate savings account?

Uh yeah, that's that would be the plan, yeah. Good. That helps to earmark it, cuz if you just have it in checking, or you have it in your emergency fund, it feels like you're doing something bad when you take that out to use it for a vacation. So, instead, earmark it.

10-year anniversary vacation. And then when you put the money in, you know exactly what it's for. And then when it comes time to book the trip, or when you have the money, pull the trigger. I wonder Yeah. I wonder if you've got a thousand to fifteen hundred dollars worth of stuff around the house you could sell, too.

Yeah, true. >> that plan. I love that plan. You know why? We just add a little extra money to this anniversary trip and we didn't have to work as hard. We got rid of some crap we didn't need anyway. And then do your research. Splurge where it's worth it, cut back where you're like, we don't care about this over here, and you can work with a five thousand dollar budget easily.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. I'm Ken Coleman, George Kamel is alongside.

And we're going to go to Minneapolis where Ella is. Ella, how can we help you?

Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. This is awesome.

Um, anyway, I have a question. So, I'm following the baby steps.

Unfortunately, I'm not able to work right now. I'm on a a medical leave. I have to have surgery this next Wednesday. And I need to come up with four thousand

dollars before I have my surgery. And if

I was able to work, I'd be good.

But, right now, I'm just kind of at a loss. I have I've been marking things up. I'm going to have a garage sale and try to sell everything that I possibly can, but before Wednesday, I'm kind of kind of stuck. Is it due up front?

Yeah, they said that um it's to meet my

deductible, my out-of-pocket deductible.

And then and so I've been on the phone and trying to work with them um to see if you know I can get on a payment plan or anything and they're like well that would be like the last option I'm like well that might be your only option cuz I don't have it.

Is this at a hospital?

Yes, it is. Is your doctor aware of this?

Yes, he is. And what did he say

about going forward on this or rescheduling or how serious is a reschedule? What's what's going on? Give us the full picture.

Okay. So unfortunately this is my fourth surgery

in 3 years but hey I'm I'm a trooper

it's okay like I I get through it and So sorry. I go to work and it's okay. Thank you I appreciate it though.

Um and anyway Uh sorry. I um talked to my doctor about it and he told me he was like if anything he's like we're going to do the surgery you need to have it >> Right. and he's like just tell them you made a payment arrangement we're still going through it and then they can figure it out and I'm like okay.

>> Good. So I think that's what you have to hold that's that's our that's our sleep okay at night answer. Mhm. And then you do everything you can you know but have have you called the hospital billing department?

I have. Oh my gosh we're like best friends right now. >> What do they what do they say about financial assistance charity care that kind of stuff?

Yes I have submitted all of you know my

pay stubs and and everything to them they're going to try to review it to see if I meet the qualifications but I already make too much money and I told them >> And when's Is That's that's the thing, too. I'm I'm not sure. Today was the the last paycheck that I'm getting until hopefully my Minnesota paid leave comes into place. And it was only like 400

bucks because I've been on leave for the past 2 weeks. Was it unpaid?

>> So Yeah, the um so I was only able to work two two days this last pay period. Otherwise But

yeah, it's really frustrating. And like I said, I do follow the baby steps.

I've And unfortunately, like I'm in step two. But I'm happy I paid off >> I have 18,000 left and I've paid off 60.

Way to go. What's left in the 18?

>> off Um so what's left in the 18 is

some leftover surgery debt.

Um I have two small credit cards

and um two small personal loans. And I

Guys, I'm telling you I have I've brought my budget down. I know where all of my money goes thanks to you guys. Good. >> And I had my my $1,000 and you know, I can live very simply. It's just my body

hates me. Aw, bless your heart. >> Um but you have $1,000 to your name.

Nope, because I had to use that to to

pay um my rent and and everything. Oh,

and then on top of that, I have to move because the house that I'm renting in I

just found out that it's in foreclosure.

Oh my goodness. >> hasn't been Yeah, so It's like a country song. Yeah. >> it is.

It's It's really sad. I'm more of a I'm I'm more of a punk rocker, so I'm just like uh come I like you. Well, you know, there's always I I what is your You know what you need to do? You need to find one of those punk rock songs that you really love that's kind of got like the tough the tough times lyrics, but there's some bright side on it and that becomes your soundtrack, you know?

>> Oh, it is. Social Social Distortion, Reach for the Sky. That's my There it is. Social Distortion, Reach for the Sky.

And you know what?

You've been through a lot. Better days are ahead, right? Absolutely.

>> to get through this. Don't Do you follow the advice of your doctor? So, let's take that stress off the table and get yourself healthy and then get get back to work and keep walking the baby steps out and I'm telling you better days are ahead.

Thank you. And then document everything like a mad woman. I'm talking I mean, there should be an income-based discount if you're on medical leave. You should qualify for a significant reduction on this thing or a full write-off. And on top of that, bring proof of income loss.

Say, "Hey, listen. I made $400. Here's what I should have made and this is going to remain this way until I'm fully healed." And I think if this person is your best friend, if I'm your best friend at the office, I'm going to do everything I can to go, "Hey, your bill suddenly disappeared." Yeah. Oh, I like that. Oh, I see what you're saying.

>> crossed. >> Yeah, I mean, they can pull some strings over there. A human being has to deny or approve these things so >> little key. It's one little keystroke.

Mhm. I see what you're doing there, George. Yeah, it's not illegal. George with a little George with a little espionage. This is why these people exist. >> it. And so, just you need to utilize You need to know this stuff better than they do to where you go, "No, I actually read the fine print and here's what it says." You need to become an expert in healthcare cuz there's a lot of incompetent people in healthcare. Mhm.

Oh, I know that. I work in healthcare.

So, become the become the expert on your situation and when you are mar- when you have all of the options, all of the information, you can win this thing. And we are rooting for you to get through the surgery, to heal up, to get rid of these debts, get that emergency fund.

You have a bigger why than most people.

That's right. What is the prognosis on the other side of the surgery? Do you know?

Not 100% sure yet. So,

um yeah, I >> do you do you have a a good a sense of confidence that you're going to be able to get back to work relatively soon? Or is that completely up in the air as well?

Oh, I told them I go, "I'm going back to work on May 1st." I'm like, Look at you.

There's no stopping you. >> I'm like, I Oh, there isn't. Like, I work two jobs. I work two jobs. I have tons of side hustles. And I'm just like, "No, like Oh, Ella, listen. You know what? I love the advice George gave you.

And I hope they don't charge you rent this month if they're under foreclosure. I think that should give you a little freebie. What's the story there?

I feel like I'm not even going to pay them. And I'm just going to try to save and just move and put my stuff in

storage. And if I have to couch surf for a little while, it's okay. >> for you. >> They're the ones about to get sued and going through bankruptcy. So, I think they're going to have their hands full. Yeah, they got bigger fish to fry than you. And Ella, you inspired me just now. I want to tell you something. Like, I love your attitude given everything you're dealing with right now.

You're unstoppable. I love that you said, "I know I am." And you're going to get back going. And boy, are we cheering you on. We're in club Ella.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar Budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Hey George, have you heard about Ask Ramsey? Heard about it. >> Yeah? I use it daily.

>> Do you really? I ask I talk to it cuz nobody wants to talk to me, Ken. So, I go to Ask Ramsey and it's very conversational. >> do.

It wants to talk nerdy like I like to talk. >> What is Ask Ramsey? Some of you are wondering. It is the AI tool that's built and trained on proven Ramsey principles.

And we're going to break down the most asked questions from this week. We had some questions around budgeting, college funds, investing, but the most asked question, George, was around paying off the mortgage. The main question is, should I prioritize paying off my mortgage or investing for more long-term growth? So, what what do you think Ask Ramsey said, George?

First, you got to be investing 15% of your gross household income into retirement. Anything beyond that is a baby step six items, so you can throw that money at the mortgage, but it's not a um it's not a this or that. It's a yes

and. Yes, you should be investing. Yes, you should pay off the mortgage. You don't need to do one or the other, um but you should not stop retirement investing to rush the mortgage.

That's the truth. A paid-for house gives you peace and margin. Once the house is paid off, then you can start investing even more than that 15% and increase it to your heart's delight for your wealth goals. So, Ask Ramsey can help you determine how much extra to throw at your mortgage each month, what your pay-off date would be.

It'll help you with all the nerdy stuff, do the calculations for you.

>> Nice. Let's go to Cassandra now in our backyard here, Nashville, Tennessee.

Cassandra, how can we help?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> You bet.

What's going on? >> um so I am Well, I have $9,000 in um debt for my car, and it's very manageable, and it's in my monthly budget to take care of that, but I have

more than enough money to pay it off right now if I wanted to.

Um my question is,

if I get rid of that payment and it affects my credit score, um I'm looking

to put, you know, a down payment on the home in the future, will someone lend me

that money for a home if my credit mix

isn't good, if I don't have multiple lines of credit?

Got it. What other um accounts do you have open right now as far as debt?

Um I have a secured credit card, and I kind of use it as my budget for gas. I never spend more than 30% on it. Okay, so the car is the only debt?

Yes. How much do you have in savings?

22,500.

That's all the money to your name?

Um and I also have um a retirement account that counts. Okay, but as far as liquid money, 22 five, and if you paid off the car loan, what does that leave you with?

Um 9,000 less than that, so

Okay, we're talking like 13 grand or so is what you'll have left.

Yes. Well, the good news is you're not going to have to worry about purchasing a home anytime soon cuz you're going to have to still save up an emergency fund, then save up the down payment. So, this is a far away goal, right?

Yes, it is. Okay. And your credit score is not going to tank once you pay off your car. It might go down temporarily, but it's not going to go down to where you're not going to get a great rate on a mortgage.

Okay. Thank you. >> not worry about that. Now, if you stop making payments or miss payments, those things will negatively affect your credit score and it'll stay like that for a much longer period of time, but just paying off a debt is not going to go away. You're going to go from a 700 to a 650. Way to go, Cassandra. It's a good thing to pay off your debt. So, trying You're basically saying should I stay in debt on purpose so I can qualify for more debt at that point.

Yes. And so, truthfully, even if you cut up your credit card, and this is something I did, my credit score eventually disappeared. I became credit, you know, my credit score was indeterminable, and then I went through a process called manual underwriting. I submitted just a few more documents, a real human being looks at the documents and says, "Yep, we can give him a loan." It's that It was that simple.

>> Okay.

If you have a good down payment, you'll have no debt, so you'll be a very strong candidate, and your income strong. All of those are much bigger factors than just a credit score.

Okay, yes sir. Thank you. Yeah, thanks for the call. Yeah, really good. Cameron is up in Phoenix, Arizona. Cameron, how can we help today?

Hi, so I'm currently a student physical therapist about to get licensed in around late October. Um my biggest thing

is I'm about $120,000 in debt by the time I get licensed and I'm actually making $80 to $85,000 out of school and I have

10K to my save in my savings and I was

just curious, you know, I have that my $1,000 of course that is my base foundation of savings, but what else do I just throw everything else towards this snowball method and and kind of what's the way to to go about things?

When is your last payment for education?

Oh, what what was that? When is your last payment due for education? Are you already there?

Um no. No, and so it'll technically be,

I believe, September.

Okay. >> Of this year. Cuz my goal would be to avoid going into any more debt Mhm. before graduation. And so that's kind of we're trying to just stop the bleeding at this point. And so I would hang on to that money to use it for the following semester for tuition, textbooks, etc.

Yeah. Yeah. So limit the damage and then once you graduate

and you have your income, now let's start using the baby steps, the debt snowball method to start attacking these student loans from small Yes, yeah, all separate loans. Some some federal, some subsidized and subsidized stuff, yeah. Awesome. Leave it that way.

Don't do any kind of debt consolidation lumping it into one giant loan. It's going to be so much easier to pay it off when you can attack the little one with a vengeance. Free up that payment, apply it to the next one. That's the debt snowball and I I have good faith and confidence that you'll be able to pay off the 120K.

Now, making 80, it's going to take a little while, but hopefully you can get your income up, maybe work overtime, and really go hard at this thing for 2 or 3 years and knock it out fast. >> Yeah. And that is an absolute huge reason why you don't want to add any more to this. Cuz coming out of this thing, this is what I can't stand, and I I I this is why I don't like the student loan program for so many people, you know, they come out and they're excited, they've got the great job, and then it's this mountain they have to climb.

And they can, and we've seen and we've helped a lot of people do it. But it's it's just >> part is, Ken, the financial aid. When I walked in the financial aid office and you get the the package from FAFSA, you're like, "Wow, what a gift.

It's true. It's true. It'll It'll heal a little faster.

Uh let's go to Jacob real quick here in Nashville. Jacob, how can we help?

Hey, I'm trying to determine make sure I'm doing all the right things to be able to retire as early as 50 very comfortably.

How old are you now? I'm I'm 29 right now.

Okay, we got a little ways to go. How much you got saved for retirement?

So, I was fortunate enough that my my

father, my grandparents, my great-grandparents put together a uniform transfer to minor account when I was very young.

I'm not entirely sure what the beginning balance was. I want to say it was close to $50,000. What is it now? I I

It is now up to $490,000.

Whoa! And >> And about about 75,000

of that is my IRA in a Vanguard account.

So, 490 total is your sort of nest egg you've built so far.

Yeah, well, that's just associated with Vanguard. So, I also have about 38,000 in a 401k, about 12,000 in a 403. So,

what's the total nest egg? Do we have 550? We're just crushed for time, so I'm trying to get right to it. >> Yeah, sure. 550, how much will you contribute monthly?

Going forward for the next 21 years.

>> sure. So, my only contribution is maxing out the Roth maxing out the IRA. So, about 600 something bucks a month.

>> Well, let's just say at 50, you'll likely have about $5 million.

Now, that's without accounting for inflation and buying power, but 5 million you tell me, can you live off 5 million at 50 for the rest of your life?

I think so. I think you'll be work optional, and my guess is you actually go do something that really matters to you. If he has George Camel's budget, he'll be living like a king. Living large.

Listen up, folks. If you've got a complicated tax situation and you're putting off filing your return, it's time to talk with a Ramsey trusted tax pro. Not next week, not April 15th, right freaking now. Ramsey trusted tax pros know the tax code front to back, so they can do the heavy lifting to help you file on time and explain things to

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The right insurance should act as a shield around you and your loved ones and your wallet. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan. Go to ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

That's ramseysolutions.com/checkup and you can do a coverage checkup. And boy does George love a coverage checkup. I like playing defense. I'm telling you. With especially with your wealth. I get it.

Chris is up in Los Angeles, California.

Chris, how can we help today?

Hey guys, thank you guys so much for taking my call. Such an honor.

Well, we're honored to talk to you. What's going on?

Hey, uh so real quick, I'm I'm 28 years

old and um I'm currently on baby step two. Um I have $16,000 in credit card debt left. Um and I just got an opportunity

from my parents to buy one of their property that they have for about 20 years now. With two tenants with

two tenants that are in right now. And um the house is valued at about $700,000, but they're going to be selling it to me for for $350,000 for

what they bought it for years ago.

I do I'm I'm like not too sure what I should do. I don't know if I should purchase the house or just keep going.

Um trying to clear my debt or I I'm kind

of lost to be honest with you.

Do you want the fun answer or the real answer?

I'll I'll the real answer, to be honest with you.

Okay, the real answer is you've no business taking on that mortgage right now and being an investment property guru. >> Yeah. Um I mean, for a lot of reasons, I don't Whenever I hear the word I have an opportunity and then it involves going to a bunch of debt when you already have a bunch of debt, it tells me it's not an opportunity. It's actually a burden disguised as an opportunity.

>> So, that's my fear. Is you you take on this It's such a good deal. Oh my gosh.

I mean, why not just inherit it from them later on down the road?

Exactly. Yeah, that's what I kind of figured. >> are they trying to get out if this is such a great opportunity?

Yeah, and and you're right. You're right, George. I I'm not too sure why, but it makes sense.

It makes sense. And by the way, and George is right. The financial is a no-go. But, you know what else is on the other side of this, too, besides being a bad financial decision? You're going to end up resenting them.

Because once you start feeling the stress of all this, you're going to go, "They talked me into this, and now it's going to affect your relationship with your parents." So, this is a no-go financially and relationally.

Absolutely. No, definitely. I really appreciate it. >> Yeah, thanks for calling. I've heard I've heard it all. I mean, this is people have already been telling me, "I don't know. If you don't take it on, it's going to be a stupid decision." But, Well, the question is you got to reframe it. It's The question is not is this a good deal. The question is, can I actually handle this right now without it crushing me?

Right. >> good deal at the wrong time is a bad deal.

Yeah. And so, I would just say, "You know what? I I would have loved to, but I'm I've got some financial goals right now. I'm not in a place to be buying investment property." Exactly. >> But, I love you, guys. Good luck with the sale.

Yeah, thank you, Chris. Uh your instincts are right. Thanks for the call. Bridget is up next in Anchorage, Alaska. Bridget, how can we help?

Hi. Um so, my husband and I are in Baby Step 4, but we're kind of in a unique situation. So, I have a normal 9-5 corporate job and my husband owns his own fishing business that's seasonal.

Um we're to the point that we can invest 15% of our income while I'm working, but we're also about to have our second child and um so I'm hoping I can quit my job and be a stay-at-home mom.

Um but if we did that, we wouldn't be able to afford to invest 15% of our income. So, what should we do? Like should I

continue working cuz with his schedule, he's gone all summer for 5 to 6 months of the year. So, child care gets really complicated and then he's our child care in the winter. So, I'm we're kind of at a loss as to how we should move forward.

>> So, I make about 75. And what is he making from this business per year on average? So, it varies. He's about 5

years into it and it has slowly grown.

Um so, I think his highest year was he made over $100,000 just off of his business. Right. >> this last year it was closer to like 45, 50.

So, he has some other income some other like side jobs and things that he does.

Um but those are it's also seasonal.

Mhm. Well, the math of the situation is you can't afford to stay home if it means you can't build wealth for the future. And we have variable income in the business which adds a whole 'nother layer of stress to your family. So, I want >> Yeah. to speak into how we can turn this thing from a variable part-time deal into more stable full-time income. Yeah,

I mean well, I wish I had him on the phone. How well do you know about his business?

Oh, I know lots. Okay, well, what do you think is uh the opportunity? Do you think that how would you describe it in what stage?

Is it infant stage or we toddler stage or we teen like just it's current?

>> is >> it's it's seasonal. So, he's a hunting he's a hunting and fishing guide, right?

So, there's only that certain season that he can be doing that.

>> Right. Um especially in Alaska. And so,

um he's kind of limited time-wise. So,

he can sort like if he gets more guides and things like that, he could potentially be selling more trips, which he's working on. Um and so, like this

year he's going to be making a lot more, which is great. And like we already have for our emergency fund, we did a full year because of his variable income. We wanted to make sure that we have enough set aside that we would be very comfortable. So, like I guess potentially he could work in more in the wintertime and just kind of take on some other jobs.

>> But >> to. So, what businesses thrive in Alaska in the wintertime that are adjacent to what he's doing now? That's right.

>> That would be my homework. >> That would be ideal.

But what The reason I asked that is it emphasis is that he's the only guy right now. The business is all completely on his shoulders. He's the only guide. Correct? So, he has a couple

others. It just depends on how big the trips are, but he doesn't have anybody else that's full-time with him. So, he hires a few different contractors for the summer. That's fine cuz it's seasonal. So, that's what I was getting at cuz that's the only way to to expand on a seasonal business, right? Exactly.

>> Is he's got to reproduce himself. And so, I'm guessing he's he's close to teenage age, right? He's not He's not an infant. He's already moved on to hiring other people, so that's good. So, so that lets me know where our where our opportunity for growth is and it's more trips, more guides. So, he's got to work on that. And that takes a little It takes a little bit of time to grow that.

So, I think what's enormous is like what George said is what's something he can do that's in that space? And I'm using the word space very generally here, but it's in in old hunting fishing world.

>> Recreational. Yeah, well, just hunting and fishing and all that. That That's If he's in that space and he can make good money um and they and it kind of just dovetails in some way, creates relationships in some way, or they're they're willing to go, "We know we got you from this time this time and then when we get to the summertime, you're off and doing your thing." You just got to increase your income. He just cannot afford to just be seasonal right now.

You guys can't. You need more money. >> So, it's not a no. I would just make it a it's a not now.

And if we can prove that after 2 years in a row this business has profited him, he took home over $100,000, boom.

That's right. >> And that tells me we're going to be just fine. If you never work again, he can sustain this thing. So, that's where I would just want some proof cuz 45 If you If it's another 45 year and you stay home, that's going to be tight.

>> Mhm. Yeah, for sure.

>> One other thought on this bridge is to take back to your hubs on this. I I think he's got to treat the seasonal business like a bonus, you know? >> Yeah. Like in the corporate world, they you know, peop- corporations they pay bonuses, right? Kind of the like a year-end bonus. And I think he's got to treat that seasonal job as that's my

bonus. We're living off of what, you know, I'm doing in this other role and then that's our big lump sum of money.

And I think if we can begin to think that way, that's going to pay off for you guys and then that's going to get you in a position where eventually, you know, you can do that. So, I just a little thought there, but I do think it's important to frame it that way, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, for sure. And that's where you get ahead big time. You know what I mean?

So, we're living off of his regular job, the seasonal gig until it's a full-time it can fully fund what it needs to. It is our big bonus job. So, thanks for the call. That's really fun. You know,

you and I should go on a on a hunting fishing trip in Alaska. We're the >> I'd make it?

I think you could make it. know >> my wife would allow me to. I don't know that she'd think I'd come back alive.

>> I think our wives would let us and I think it would be just rich and funny just for social media alone to see you and I attempting to go on some Alaska type trip. >> If you just gave me the reel ready to go, I could probably do it.

>> Yeah. Then help me reel the fish back.

>> think would happen is you and I would be fly fishing and you would accidentally snag my ear. That's a real possibility.

Yeah.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our verse of the day comes from Proverbs 19:23. The fear of the Lord leads to life, then one rests content, untouched

by trouble. Our quote of the day from Scotty Pippen, a Gucci wallet and a Target wallet hold the same amount of money. A $10 million house and a $100,000 house host the same loneliness. A Ford will also drive you as far as a Bentley.

They're right. Thanks, Scotty. >> Scotty dropping dimes over here, as the kids like to say. >> Do they say that still? >> I don't think anybody says that. I'm getting message from the booth. I'm getting a Ben is saying no, no one says that. >> Your kids are at home cringing right now going, "Dad." >> afraid I've said something I don't even intend to say. What is Do we know what dropping dimes is? >> I don't I don't think it's a bad thing.

>> I don't think it is. >> Yeah, you're not going to get in trouble. Okay.

Kelly, the producer has never heard >> Our resident Gen Z said, "No." It's She's a millennial, George.

>> it back. >> You're a millennial. She just She plays very young and, you know, fun compared to me who's an old soul curmudgeon.

Yeah. Yeah, by the way, she does have a great hat on today, the Masters hat.

>> There we go. Fantastic. Uh there she is, everybody. Look at that. All you need is a pimento cheese sandwich in your hand.

Uh let's go to Jim in Lansing, Michigan.

Jim, how can we help?

Hi, Jim. Hey there. So, um Yeah. So, uh I just had a quick question as to how to talk to my dad about credit

cards in our business. So, um I started a business with my father uh about a year ago and I personally I

don't do debt. I don't do credit card. I don't do any of that. It's all scary.

Now, he loves credit cards. He doesn't have a lot of debt um in you know, his

personal life, but he just loves credit cards. He has them all over the place.

And I voiced when he wanted to get one for the business, I voiced my concern then, but I know better than to argue with my father. And we ended up getting a business credit card. And I just figured, you know, I would take an initiative to make sure that nothing bad happens with that. Now, this past month, something bad did happen with that.

We tried to pay it off and the bank marked it as fraudulent. And so, then we got late fees and interest on that credit card and that terrifies me.

I don't know how to I don't know how to have that discussion.

Well, this is a a generational money fight. He's been living this way for so long. You're not going to change his mind as the young whippersnapper.

I know that. I know that. Every Every time that I talk to him >> Yes. Every time that I talk to him though about the credit cards, he he's uh excuses, you know, "I've been doing this longer than you've been alive. I've never been charged interest." But now he has been and I don't Well, what he really said is "I don't respect your opinion in this business." That's right.

And which means he's not going to accept your opinion.

Yeah.

So now you got a a real problem, don't you?

Oh, yeah. So >> businessman, so I don't like the idea of that, but I just Well, but are you long-term in this business? Is have you already made a decision or is this just something early on you're just kind of "I'll do the family business for a while till I figure out what I want to do with my life." What what's your status? >> No, this is this is uh this is long-term for me, but >> Okay. How old is he?

Uh like 50.

Okay. So this is a long ways away from like you inheriting the business on your own. This could be another 25 years of this. And it's not going to be the last fight you guys have. So just know that going into business with family can be a fun idea and a harsh reality.

>> Mhm. So >> Yeah. the the conversation is "Dad, I respect how you built things.

I want to build this as well. I want to feel like an equal partner. Can we try running this thing lean, debt-free, and see how it goes?

And when and if we run into a situation where it's like "Dang it, we need the credit card." I will concede.

And we'll have that conversation.

So give him a trial instead of a debate, and that way he'll put his defenses down. Does he like a challenge?

I Yeah, I could give that a shot. 90 days.

Maybe. I don't know.

Yeah. And I don't I don't I don't mind George's approach. He might be a stubborn horse. I don't know. He might be. You got nothing to lose with George's approach.

I have a high sense here that this is

not going to go the way you want it to go. And he's not going to change. So that means You do too. Okay. And so I like

George's approach, but you need to reconcile the fact that this is the business I want to be in. This is my long-term play. And I philosophically

disagree with my dad on debt.

And the truth is you guys did not align on values for this business before you started the partnership.

Mhm. You didn't set the ground rules or the boundaries and said, "Hey, one value I have is we're going to run this business completely debt-free because it lowers our risk, lowers our stress, and increases our chances this thing survives." That's really at the heart of what you're doing.

Yeah, we don't have any loans or anything on the business. It's just that credit card and we had points, but now we don't

points. Yeah. That's where those That's where those late fees will go.

Man. I I just think you you talk to dad, you keep chirping about it if you want to, always respectful.

Make the challenge that George gave you.

I'm all for that. But I'm also a realist to know that if he just isn't going to change his mind, you aren't going to change it for him.

And so I would reconcile that and go,

"I'm going to do things different when I'm in charge. Until then, I'm going to focus on what I can control or or you know, what I do agree with and just learn how to deal with that." It's just a tough situation. I don't want you to have this constant tension between your dad and you over this issue. Cuz it seems like it's a healthy business otherwise.

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Tough thing, man. It's It's tough. But hey, you're not going to leave the business over it. So then you got to make peace with it and try to over time get him on your side. But again, it's an old dog. New tricks are hard. I know. Trust me, George is always trying to teach me new tricks. Aubrey's up next in Raleigh, North Carolina. You see what I did there?

Well, I would just think I just helped Ken download like an airline app for the first time and it felt like helping my grandpa. He's really straight, he had his readers on and everything. It was fantastic. That's what it reminded me of. It's true. It was at a Starbucks in Charlotte. That was fun. Aubrey, how can we help you today?

Hey, how are y'all? Good. What's going on?

So, look, I'm just curious.

Me and my wife we've been married now going on 2 years.

We've completely gotten out of all of our car debt, you know, everything else

like that. So, we're just left with the house now. And I'm just curious. She would like to go on she likes to travel.

She was a travel nurse when we got married and she wants to travel to Italy and I'm wondering if we can kind of not necessarily put a pause on the house, but maybe not pay as much extra on the house to uh be able to take fun trips.

How much is the trip going to be?

The trip's probably going to end up being around 4,000 if I had to guess.

And you have no debt?

No no debt besides the house. No, sir.

So, this is you're just simply saying we would slow down on our aggressive paying off of the house to be able to just sock $4,000 away fairly quickly to take a trip to Italy.

Yes, sir. I don't know. Why is that a problem? I think it's great. You live your life, man. I mean, baby steps four through six, I mean, really through seven is you're you're taking the you're taking the you know, foot off the pedal here and go we don't need to be gazelle intense anymore. We just need to be intentional. So, as long as you're saving up, you're paying cash for this trip, I mean, it's not going to delay your mortgage payoff by a year.

We're talking a couple months at most, right? >> how you're going to do a trip to Italy for 4,000 is what's throwing me off. That's the most impressive part. I was like, what are you doing? Are you staying in a box? Are you guys doing hostels?

No, it's a it's a family trip, so it's kind of split split cost between everybody. >> Oh, that's even better. Like lodging is split, so that makes it a little cheaper. Got it. I wish I knew some Italian right now. I would throw it out there as an encouragement to say do this, live a little, you know? George, you know any Italian? Bienvenida?

That might be Spanish. I've no clue. I I think I failed that class. Kelly, help us out. What is happening? She did Duolingo, right? Ciao. Ciao. That's not

a good >> That's not what this needs though, but thank you. She did help us out.

>> We'll see you in Italy, Aubrey. >> Right, that works. Okay, great. Yeah.

Aubrey, I mean, listen, I you don't need permission on this from anybody. You're not doing anything wrong by doing this. It's okay to slow down your self-imposed goal. The key is you're being intentional. You're going to pay it off early, aren't you?

Yeah, yeah, we we definitely want to It's a case It's a little bit daunting still having still having 200,000 left on it. >> really quick question. Is one of you, you or your wife, actually leaning towards not doing this?

Going on the trip? >> Yeah. No, we're we're both I would say we're both leaning forward towards it. I'm more I I'm more of on the terms of paying stuff off as quick as possible.

>> Lean hard, man. Lean into that Leaning Tower of Pisa. There it is.

Full circle. >> You worked really hard on that. I like I like Kelly's ciao better. But uh hey, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 240. When Money Gets Complicated, Clarity and Wisdom Matter Most | January 30, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy2VTIXHCCk) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:47:09 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Campbell, taking your calls, going to the phone lines where we have Heather in Indianapolis, Indiana. Heather, what's up? >> Hi. How are you guys >> doing? Good. How can we help?

>> Um, long story short, um, I got married

in August and once we combined some finances, I found out that my husband had a lot of gambling debt.

>> Um, I had a baby in October and my

husband tore his Achilles in May. So,

he's currently not working and I just went back to work from having my baby.

Um, basically I found out in December that he's got 150k in debt. Most of it

is from gambling and he didn't think he was going to be alive uh to face the consequences that led up to this debt unfortunately. But he met me and we got married and had a baby and things have changed. >> Wow. So you you quite literally saved his life. >> Correct. Yeah. We kind of both saved each other and you know that's why I fell in love with him I guess.

>> Wow. So, did you know about this this gambling issue before you got married?

>> Uh, I knew he gambled, right? Like when we won 25,000 in Vegas, it's great.

>> But when he, you know, lost 16,000 in one day, it's not. So, I knew about it.

I just didn't know how bad it was until after the fact, right? I started asking more questions once I knew.

>> Yeah. How long of a process was this that he went into all this debt before you were married and during? No, it

stopped as soon as we got together. But, uh, he gambled like seven years, maybe.

>> So, over the course of seven years, it's accumulated 150,000.

>> Correct. Uh, he's got >> two payday loans. Uh, he's got some 401k

and then just whatever on the app you can like take money. I'm not a big gambler. So, >> is he still current? Is he currently because you just said he's not accumulated since you got married.

So, he has he hasn't continued to gamble since we got married, but he hasn't paid any of his debt. >> Are you sure that he's not? How do you know? >> If he's stuck at home all day since May, and he hasn't opened a gambling app or went to a website, I would be shocked if he's not going to Gamblers Anonymous.

>> Well, we did get into therapy and did some couples uh counseling, but I control all the finances. So, I mean, unless he's doing something behind my back and taking out additional loans, there's nothing to my knowledge.

>> I would be pulling his credit report to get a full picture and freeze his credit. Have you done that?

>> I I haven't his credit, but I did pull up and found out like all the creditors that he has. >> So, he was withholding this information.

This wasn't just like, well, he let me know. You found this out.

>> Correct. It kind of got like uh breadcrumbmed along, right? And then once I knew my spot, I was like, what's happening? Where's all your money going?

What's how do we get in this situation?

>> Okay. >> Then he was open and honest, right?

That's how I got help and took control.

>> Okay. So, you guys have It sounds like you've turned the the the corner. This is no longer happening. You've got control of the money. You've done all the the due diligence there. So, how can we help today? Is it how do I pay this off? Is that just the biggest question?

>> Yeah. It says, I want to know how we approach a judgment this large. Is the snowball method realistic in this situation? Should we consider bankruptcy

or are there other options?

>> Is this the only debt of all the 150?

>> Yeah. 153. Um the house is in my name.

The cars are in my name. I don't really I only have like 4,000 maybe credit card debt. It's all his debt.

>> Okay. The cars are paid off.

>> No. >> Okay. So, tell the car all the debt.

Um, I owe 12 um7,000 on my house.

Probably have about 4,000 left on my car to pay. He might have 11,000 left in his

truck to pay. >> Okay. >> We got a $53,000 judgment on the one creditor, 19,000

on the other one, and then he took all of his 401k out.

>> Okay. Okay. So, what's you guys' income

is I mean, is I guess he's not working yet. Will he go back to work? Tell me more about that.

>> So, we tore his Achilles and uh he's currently healing. I hope and pray he can go back to work. Uh he's got a physical job uh at UPS. So, he does have

a good job and makes good money, but right now he's not working. Only I am.

And I make $68,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what did he make when he was working?

Uh each year is a little different depending on overtime, but at least six figures if he's not like 95 to 110

depending on the bonuses and how many hours we get. >> Is there any disability income coming in or workers comp, anything like that?

>> He was on workman's comp, but they cut him off. They only gave him 6 months and

then they stopped. So, we're it's all in

limbo right now. We're waiting for his IME and what to do.

>> Yeah. Is he able to to walk on it? What is his current status?

>> He's in physical therapy. So, he just got into a shoe in December and uh like

he can't really do a lot of steps. He cannot drive like going from the gas pedal to the brake.

>> So, he still has some healing to do and it's kind of all on me.

>> Yeah. Well, that's that's really stopping you guys from being able to crush through this debt. Right now you're just in survival mode until we get his income back in place. Is there anything else he can do that isn't physical to bring in some income?

>> No. Like he can't walk or drive. So like I don't know. >> I'm saying any other job. If he can't work right now, he needs to do something even if it's from home. Can he do customer service? >> Right. His mind is not broken. His Achilles is broken.

>> Correct. Um but he's watching the baby.

So then we would have to figure out child care right now. when I just picked up a second job. >> Is there any family around that could help with that? Do you have a local church? Is there anybody that you can reach out to? Even if it's part-time,

right? Cuz the baby sleeps at night. So, even if he's doing some sort of night customer service, right?

>> Yeah. Like, we can look into that. But with workman's comp, it would definitely like I don't want to commit fraud on that. >> He's not getting stopped.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I don't know how any of this works. I've never been in a situation like that before. >> So, here's what I want. I want you to be open to solutions because uh I think

that you're kind of camped out on we we'll just file bankruptcy, but I want you to be open to the solutions that George and I give. And I just want to be upfront in saying they're going to all suck. Like none of them are going to be fun and none of them are going to be things that you want to do with your time. They're going to be things that feel like impositions because they are.

They're going to be very uncomfortable. It's going to require him to do jobs and work that he doesn't want to do at times that he doesn't want to do it, like at night when most of us are watching Netflix. It's going to cause you to be doing things that are uncomfortable, like calling workman's comp, whoever that is, and figuring out what does it mean? Are we getting any more money?

Will there be any uh repercussions if we go ahead and work since the payment stopped? Right? These are all the things that you guys are going to have to do.

And the challenge for you beyond the finance of this um Heather is going to be not feeling resentful towards him for having piled up all this debt and now you're having to sort through it. You're having to have this discomfort in your lives because of it. I would not file bankruptcy, you know, just yet, George.

I I would work through this. You're going to have a timeline on your horizon. But he hurt his Achilles. He's not He didn't have heart surgery.

So, he's going to recover. He's going to go back to work. It's just really hard right now. >> Correct.

And >> I'm sorry I had to get you off for the clock, but I I I really I really really want you to understand that this is something you can work through. I would do the debt snowball, which is what you asked. Smallest to largest, minimum payments.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

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All right, back to the phone lines we go. We've got Maggie who's in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Maggie.

>> Um, hi. Yes. I'm trying to find out if the way my husband is treating me financially is considered abusive or is it if it's acceptable and what I should do. >> Um boy, tell us more.

>> Um I'm in my mid4s. Um so is he and we

have six kids and I have been financially dependent on him for 20 years. Well, more than that our entire marriage. >> Um I don't work and I've never worked.

um last year he he artificially reduced

the amount of money in our family income um so that it was below how much we needed to have just sufficient funds. And so over the course of the year, we basically blew through all of the extra savings that were in that account. And then um towards the

end of the year, there were some medical problems with our family and we really tipped the budget over the top. Um, we did not go into debt. Um, because he's

putting aside money somewhere else.

Also, >> where do you know?

>> He's putting it into savings accounts. I used to be able to see them, but I can't see them anymore because he hid them.

Um, he he like I don't

>> because I'm dependent and I'm not really that into the finances stuff. Like I I could see them through a budgeting app, but now I can't >> and question. Yes. And he's doing this to punish you?

>> Yes. So, he sent me a text saying that since I wasn't ready to talk to him, he just went ahead and made decisions himself. And so, he cut me off from the family credit card, which was in his name, right? It was a card for him.

substantially and that he told me to use

a credit card that two months before. or then he had asked me to open in my own name and I didn't like I didn't know

that that was going to be a problem but now he wants me to use that and obviously that makes me financially responsible but he said he was he threatened to um to ruin my credit and

not to um pay anything that went over.

So now I feel really nervous to use that credit card at all because I I'm not the only one drawing from this account. Like he draws from the account and >> and he so he's controlling what amount is even in the account for you to spend on the family.

>> Yes. >> So can you use a debit card attached to that bank account? >> I don't yet have a debit card, but if that's a good option, then I could go back. >> So your name isn't even on the bank account? >> It is. My name is on the bank account.

>> So you should be able to get access to a card tied to that account. you can go down to the bank and ask for one.

>> Okay, >> I would do that today. And that way you don't need to use this credit card. You don't need to even have the chance of racking up any debt. And then it becomes an issue of, hey, we don't have enough to cover the bills and I don't even know what we need to cover because you have access to everything and won't let me even see it. And so you guys have some deep marriage issues and the financial part is just a symptom. >> Yeah, this is for me

it's it's a major problem. Uh, for me

this has nothing to do with finances. I mean, obviously what George said is important, just for the here and now.

But this guy is 100% controlling, and that's 100% a financially abusive situation. So, tell me, I guarantee you

this is not the only place that he's asserting control, guaranteed.

>> Um, well, I've recently been walking out of that with a therapist because I've just started to assert my own autonomy.

>> Okay. And what does that mean?

Um, I I stop presenting things to him as a can I do this or whatever and just

doing what I need to do. Like I'm not doing anything stupid. I'm running a house and >> what does that work?

>> Um, well, sort of. He's not happy about

it. >> Uhhuh. >> But yeah, he's not like the only escalation is him I don't know. I guess you could call it like berating or that kind of thing. not um he's not like physical or anything, but >> And you're okay with that?

>> Well, I I do believe that he will get better. Um >> what makes you believe that?

>> The Lord told me.

>> How long have you been married?

>> Over 20 years.

>> And how how long has he been asserting this berating behavior?

>> Um since before we got married, but I was also a part of that. >> Can I ask you a question? I really like that. Can I ask you just a You went there, so I'm going to go there with you. Do you think that you have to be in the house for him to get better or do you think you could be somewhere safe and he could get better?

>> Um, >> you think he do you think you have to be there for him to berate you >> or do you think that you could be somewhere safe him not bate you and get better? So, that's kind of like what caused this whole thing is that I I basically refused to sit there and listen to him bury me and I told him that I wanted to have conversations by email.

Um, so that's why he said that I wasn't talking to him. >> Understood. But you're still living in the house now. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And most of the days are peaceful. It's just Yeah, he has some growing to do for sure. >> Understood. Okay. Um,

well, >> I have one other question about money.

>> Um, he I we got Christmas gifts that

were like a check. I got one in my name, he got one in his name. And um I

mentioned putting mine in my own private account. He didn't like that. He said that that needed a lot more conversation. So, I was really wanting to know if it's wise or foolish of me to put this large cash sum into >> At this point, you're protecting yourself because I don't know if this marriage is going to survive. And so, at this point, you have to then go, I need to create my own bubble over here because this person isn't safe.

>> Yeah, I would 100% say that.

>> Okay. >> So, that is actually wise to do in this moment. And I know God told you, but it doesn't mean that this marriage survives. Sometimes he he maybe it takes

this marriage not working for him to get better. I don't know. I hope this marriage survives, but I'm also not I'm not a betting man, but I'm betting he's not going to change tomorrow and just go, "Well, I had a revelation. I've decided to give you full access to the accounts and be transparent for the rest of my life." >> Right? >> I'm also thinking about your safety and security. You're just not in a financially safe or secure environment.

Therefore, your kids are not either. So, there's part of me that is I'm I'm way

more concerned with that obviously you called this show than I am with um his

comfort at this point at all cuz there's kids involved and if you can't have if you can't have access if you're home taking care of the kids but you're not allowed access to money that it takes to do such work then what are we even what are we doing here >> right >> so I'm concerned about that I'm with George >> I have a concern there's there's also something more nefarious happening, some financial infidelity on his part of why he's hiding this.

And so that is also something to consider here. And so I would demand transparency. I would demand that you have equal access to the money and that you have an equal vote in this marriage.

>> Yeah. >> And if that doesn't happen, then you guys need to go to counseling. And if he's unwilling to go to counseling, you go alone and then you'll have to make your own decisions on whether this is safe and healthy. >> Does he go to counseling or is he willing to go?

>> Um, we've we've tried in the past, but um yeah, he he left it and didn't want to do it anymore. >> Uhhuh. Yeah. Maggie, >> do you think then that it's wrong if um if he made the decision unilaterally not to put his entire income into the account?

>> Yeah, I think that's wrong.

She has full access and transparency into everything that we do. There are no hidden accounts. There's no mine and hers. She sees the budget. I see the budget. She can check the savings account at any moment. That is a healthy marriage. And any other picture is going to lead to unhealthy behaviors and an unhealthy marriage. And so, we can't continue on this way and pretend like it's all going to work out.

>> Yeah. >> There has to be a come to Jesus moment. And that means him going to counseling as a lastditch effort to go, hey, if this is going to work, you're coming with me and we're going to figure this out. >> Yeah. I think Maggie, for from where you sit, you called about a financial issue, but you know, George and I both know money touches everything. And it's never just compartmentalized. It's never just money. These these characteristics float into all the other areas of our life.

And I know based on what you said, what you're experiencing is not just happening with the bank account. There's a control issue here. and the fact that this other person is not interested in bettering themselves, whether it be through counseling or through changes of behavior, that's that's a big red flag.

And I know you've devoted 20 years to this thing, but man oh man, please please please keep yourself and your kids safe and do what you need to do to do that.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show.

We've got Lily who's in New York City, New York. What's up, Lily?

>> Hi. Um, to reference Dave, are you better than you deserve? I think so. How

about you?

>> Um I hope so. Um so I

um I have student loans myself. I'm in

baby step two. I have a $1,000 emergency saving fund. And then my dad and mom

collectively have about $150,000

of parent plus loans um in my name or

not in my name. They're legally theirs, but they took them out for me to go to college. And as George would say, it's kind of like a spit shake agreement that I'd pay them back. That was about >> um 10 years ago. So the expectation is that I pay for them. Um but and and they

recently changed it, changed the payment so that I am technically able to afford it. Um, but that would almost cut what

I'm paying my loans off in half and drastically increase the amount of time that it takes for me to pay my loans back. And also, they're making they've

chronically made poor financial decisions. And I don't want to be enabling them. Like, for example, they just bought a car that's going to cost them $60,000 by the time they pay it back. So, I I don't want to make a lot

of sacrifices in my life if they're not willing to change their lifestyle and these loans are legally in their name.

>> Are are you when you pay it, are you logging on and making the payment yourself or are you giving them the money? >> I'm logging on. I'm able to log on and um pay the money myself from my bank account. >> Okay. help me understand uh help me understand the last part of your argument which is the agreement was yeah you pay these things off you know that you're not arguing that point if you pay off the 150 what's the what's

the problem with that what's that got to do with with them and their lifestyle basically >> um because so right now if if I were to not pay the

loans at all like it wouldn't no one's going to come after me are legally in in my parents' names. >> Right. But you did agree to pay them back.

>> Yeah. Um but so I just my thought was if

I am like more find like worry about

myself first and focus on paying off my

things first and then helping them.

>> But you did well you're not helping them. Hold up. You're not helping them.

You told us that 10 years ago it was from the beginning that it was we'll take these loans, you'll pay them back.

They were not. It wasn't a bait and switch. You knew that going in. So you

at that point, you signing up for these loans is no different from you signing up for a credit card or a car note in my mind because you agreed.

>> Okay. >> Morally and relationally, legally, you're right. It's in their name. This is just as much their problem. If you decide to not pay, it's on them.

But at this point, the relationship is soured because you're not, you know, Thanksgiving looks different now when they're like, you're looking at their car in the driveway going, "You shouldn't have bought that. You could have paid off my a bunch of my student loans with that kind of money." And they're looking at you going, "Homegirl took out 200 grand in loans and isn't paying back after she said she would."

>> Right. Okay. What is your degree in?

>> Um, mechanical engineering.

>> Great. >> I make um 91,500

a year. Great. And how much debt do you have in your >> uh I have just under 20,000?

>> That's your all student loans?

>> Um 13,000 are in are federal loans and

then the other 7,000 is a private loan.

>> Okay. >> And that's it. No other debt to your name? >> No other debt. I paid off all my credit cards and I'm not going to use credit cards today. >> And no car loan?

>> No, I own my car. >> Great. >> Okay. So, the the the parent plus loans, I'm assuming those are also broken up into probably at least four by semester, right?

>> Um I actually there's three, but yeah.

>> Okay. So, what I would do is I take all all the loans, all all the individual loans, the three parent plus loans, the federal loans, however they're broken up, and the the the private loan, however it's broken up, and I would debt snowball it smallest to largest, minimum payments, and knock out the smallest one first, and put these $150,000 parent

plus loans right in there, wherever they fall, smallest to largest, and just knock it out. This has gone on for 10 years, aren't you, >> the longer you let this hang, those parent plus loans have a higher interest rate >> and so the longer you wait on this that it's going to balloon to 175,000 if we just fight over this for the next few years.

>> So, um, okay. So, the the debt the debt

snowball is you make minimum payments.

So, my loans are lower than theirs. So, I would be paying off my loans first, but at the same time making minimum payments on theirs. Is that >> So, you make you make minimum payments on all of your debt, regardless of what the minimum payment is. And then whatever the smallest loan is, um maybe it's one of the federal loans or maybe it's one of the parent plus loans, whatever the smallest balance is, not not by monthly payment, by balance.

Whatever the smallest balance is, that's the one you put all the extra money on and that's the one that you're going to knock out first. And so, and then the the idea is you start feeling the momentum off of this and then you feel good and you do the next you put all the money on the next smallest debt. Then that one's paid off. You have all that freed up money and then you put it on the next smallest debt. And that's how this works. Um, just that's a good clarific.

So that's a that's a good thing to remember going forward. Thank you for the call. We've got Jana who's in Baltimore, Maryland. Jana, you're on the line, my friend.

>> Hi. So, I'm I'm 22 years old and I'm

currently back in college. I took around

like a break for for a bit. However, the

college that I go to right now, it's like a private um Christian college, and

I owe them around like $36,000.

Um they've been allowing me to push the

balance off for the past three semesters, but they're saying that I need to get that balance down to $1,000

>> by the next semester. So essentially I

would have to be able to pay 35,000

by closer to the end of August.

>> What is it? Is it because it's a Christian school? Is it because it's like are you borrowing directly from the school or something that it's not allowing you to wait until you've graduated to pay these things back?

>> Um no. So, when I first went to college,

I kind of messed up with my grades and

things like that. And so, when it came down to me doing my financial aid again,

when I finally decided to get serious about school, FASA just didn't cover the

full amount. >> Okay. >> Um, >> so is this a payment plan directly with the school? >> Yeah.

>> Yes. It's not technically a loan. It's just a balance that you haven't paid yet. >> Yes. >> Yes. So, it's just a balance.

>> Are you currently going to that school?

>> Yes, I am. >> Okay. So, what's likely going to happen is they're not going to let you continue going to the school after the 6 months if you don't pay it.

>> Did you get clarity on what happens then? Because at this point, it may be moot for you to even go to class right now.

>> You might need to take a gap and solve this.

So, they they essentially told me that

if I can't get it down to the $1,000

um on its own, then I just won't be able to register for my >> Exactly. And so, you can't afford six grand a month right now. Are you working?

>> Yes, I am. >> How much do you make a month?

>> Um, I have two jobs. one through the school and one throughout the um outside of

school. Um the job that I work outside of school I maybe can bring like 3,000

possibly 4,000 um sorry possibly 2,000

2500 a month and my school maybe maybe

like 500 6 5 to 600 a month.

>> So you got 3,000 a month total. Do you have any money saved anywhere?

No. >> Okay. So, >> my family went through a rough patch, so I've been giving them pretty much any

spare money. And >> here here's the thing. >> Family is kind of >> you need to work with their with their office and just be clear with them. I don't have this money. I can't pay. I don't make $6,000 a month. I got to cover my own bills. And so, that might mean you can't go to school right now.

You need to get to work full-time, overtime, pay what you owe, and then maybe go to a different school that you can actually afford because clearly this private Christian one is costing a lot of money that you don't have.

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All right, you guys asked for it and we listened. The live like no one else cruise is back by popular demand. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave and the Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean.

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>> Brought you back to the Caribbean. All right. Jessica, who is far from the Caribbean, is in Phoenix, Arizona.

>> Hi. >> What's up? How can we help?

>> So, I'm sure you'll ask questions on more specifics, but my essential question is, I'm 44, married, no kids, and completely debtree with a paidoff home. Uh, unfortunately, my dad did pass away about a year ago. He did own his home free and clear. I have two additional sisters.

The home is worth about 700,000. My mom, who is not married to my father and is financially set um with about a million in retirement and owns her home free and clear, is considering selling it and moving it to Arizona?

Obviously, I can get into specifics about our finances to see if that's a good idea, but just kind of want to know the pros and cons of that and any potential pitfalls of that decision.

Um, so let me just make sure you said all that very quickly. So you're doing fine, mom is doing fine, and then you

have this home with your other three sisters. >> Other two sisters? Yes. >> Other two sisters. Do they want to sell it or do they want to gift it to her to your mom? >> Do they both agree?

>> My my older sister and I are both very

financially well off. We sold a business. We each have about $8 million invested um in the market and homes that are over 1.5 million in debtree and earn about 250 a year. Okay. My younger sister does well, but she's not in the exact same position. So, our thought was my mom pays her 250,000 for the house.

Melissa and I forgo um receiving that money from my mom. That way, she can upgrade the house and do anything she wants and still be within her budget.

And then she finally gets to live out hopefully the next 30 years actually living because she's worked her butt off her entire life and provided for us and been an incredible mom and she's never done anything for her. So we would like to do it but I don't know if there's good. That's what I wanted to hear. That was my hope but I didn't know if you were like huge red flag take

if everyone's good with this if everyone's happy with the decision and mom does mom actually want this house?

>> If she can redo it how she wants then yes. Can she and she can afford to redo it how she wants. You're not going to fund that as well.

>> Absolutely. Because we're not having her pay us each the 200. That extra 400 will allow her to do exactly what she wants.

>> Okay. So, she's getting a free house plus 400 grand.

>> Correct. >> That's a pretty sweet deal. Well, the the one thing to think about is the step up in basis. So, when you inherited the home, you get a step up in value, but when you gift it, you know, that's a different situation. And so, what is the house worth today?

>> About 700. And my dad passed away about a year ago. So I think the basis, you know, step up is limited. But obviously when we go to sell the house eventually when my mom passes, if it remains in the trust or even not with her will, then we would have that amount to pay.

>> I mean, I would definitely work with an estate attorney on this and a CPA to make sure that you, you know, dot the eyes and cross the tees here. But there's no big red flags other than understanding the financial components.

Um, obviously your dad let this, you know, inher let you guys inherit the home. Um, I don't know what the relationship was with your mom and if there's any bad blood there and if that's odd or awkward for her, but as far as the money part, >> she'd be thrilled. >> Okay, everyone's happy.

>> I I love the idea. I don't see why there's any problem in it. I think that you guys are good daughters, especially the $400,000 cash part. That's pretty >> That's a good place. These are good problems to have. I already have $10 million, so I don't need this extra house sitting around. >> We needed the win. Thank you, Jessica, for the call. We needed that one. Uh, we got Jimmy who's in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Hey, Jimmy. How can we help today?

>> Hey, can you hear me? >> I can.

>> Awesome. So, um, I just wanted to say I'm a great fan of what you guys do for people and everything. Um, so, um, I

unexpectedly received the largest bonus of my life,

um, this week and I wanted to tell that where to go before my wife decided

on on how to burn through it. How much

is the bonus? We have to know.

>> Well, before taxes, we're talking like 7,300 is all. So, probably after we're like three grand or something.

>> Okay. Well, way to go. It's your largest bonus to date. Congratulations.

>> Yes. And so I had a couple places that I itemized that it should possibly go and I I needed help with making the right decision. Um one, we have about a an

emergency fund that would last me till about Tuesday of next week. So wondering

if uh wondering if we should use that to

create create our non-existent emergency fund. Um >> two, we got married over a decade ago at the time. you know, we had a lot of young kids and stuff and we decided to, you know, go cheap and we haven't gone on our honeymoon yet. Um, we I promised her we would go at 10 years.

10 years has come and went this year and we're still not, you know, we still don't have the money saved up for that. So, the possibility to spend that to take her on a honeymoon or my third option was to use it to buy the IPO of SpaceX when it releases. >> Oh, boy.

>> Yes. Yes, we do. We've been >> we've been working through it. It's it's just home loans. Um >> multiple >> uh No, it's one um we do have a helock we use to purchase another property. Um

but we'll be all the way through paying that off um within the next two years.

>> Okay. >> So, we'll be down to our mortgage only, which right now we're sitting at like a $220,000 balance. I think it's worth about six. How how much is the heliloc that you took out?

>> Uh well, it ended up getting out of hand and I think it got all the way up to 80, but I think we're down to owing uh like

40 on it now. >> Oh, and how much is your income?

>> Which is our income? Oh, that's a loaded question. Probably about 90 90,000 a

piece maybe. >> Okay. So, you guys make 180.

>> Yep. So, this heliloc we would put in baby step two, >> which means bad news, bud. The vacation's going to wait.

>> Yeah, you need to you need to do what you said, which is stock up that emergency fund to a,000 bucks cuz getting you to Tuesday isn't going to work. Uh, and then yeah, the other two or three thousand needs to go towards baby step two, my guy.

>> Okay. And I would let the honeymoon I'd let the honeymoon be the why to kick it into gear >> to get this this heliloc paid off this 40,000 if that's all all the debt you have to your name and then let that be the way you celebrate is we're doing an amazing honeymoon once we pay this debt off because we owe it to ourselves.

>> Okay. I like that plan a lot.

>> I do. I do too. >> You guys work really hard. You have a great income. And so the fact that it's been a decade and we have almost nothing in the emergency fund. We're taking out the heliloc. It just tells me there are some other behavior things we got to fix and you guys can fix it really fast with this income. That's the good news. You'll knock out the HELOC real fast if you put all of your attention toward it.

You'll get the emergency fund done real fast if you really focus on it. And then the vacation will be really fun instead of a sinking feeling like, uh, why are we here? We have a heliloc on our back.

We don't have anything in savings. Why did we do this? >> Yeah, that's right. So George, why don't you explain how you arrived at putting their HELOC in baby step six versus baby step two? >> Yes. So when it comes to HELOCs, if the HELOC balance is more than half of your

annual income, we would make it a baby's baby step six item. Yes, >> it's large enough that it feels like another mortgage in your world. And if it's less than half your annual income, put it in baby step two inside of the debt snowball and knock it out. Cuz that tells me it can get rolled up in there and it'll get knocked out fast. It's not going to take seven years. >> That's right. Yeah, they were right at the line with the 80,000. Uh just under the line to put it at baby step, too.

I'm sure they were excited about that. >> I know that stinks. But, you know, you throw four grand a month at it, it's done in 10 months. If you can throw more than that, it's done even faster.

And so, 12 months from now, I think you guys could be in a place where you go, let's book this trip. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And that's that's the thing, guys. When you set out to do Baby Step 2, you set out to pay off your debt. You have to have a really great why. almost like that carrot dangling in front of you so that you know why you're going after this.

Maybe yours is a trip that you want to take. Maybe it's to pay for your kids' college. Maybe it's to have your dream house. Whatever it is, your why should be so strong because that's going to be your ultimate motivator.

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All right, welcome back to the Ramsay Show. We're here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio taking your calls. George, what do we say we go back to the phone lines? >> I'm down. >> We've got one here in our neck of the woods. Robert is in Nashville, Tennessee. Hey, Robert. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. I'm fine. How are you today?

>> Excellent. How can we help out?

Okay, I'll I'll tell you my question first and then I'll give you all the particulars if you want them.

>> Okay. >> Um I'm looking I'm looking at retiring at the end of the year. Um and I'm

looking at all the indicators. Gold's high, dollars down, warm buckets, moved a bunch of cash, uh has the biggest cash cash possession ever. Should I take part of my 401k and move it into my cash mutual fund? Uh for now, >> how much money do you have? What's your what's your total nest egg?

>> Okay, total nest egg uh my wife and I have 400k and a 401k in Roth. Uh we have

100,000 in a high yield savings account.

We plan on using that interest draw off it yearly for part of our retirement living. My annual rate of return on my mutual funds is 10.89% over the last 23

years. >> Way to go. That's exactly what we tell people. >> That's where you should be. >> So you've been doing it right. So you're you're heavy in equities. You don't have a lot of bonds right now. What's the split?

>> Uh, it's it's probably I've been very aggressive cuz I found Dave later in life. >> Okay. >> So, I've been very aggressive. I probably 90 I'm probably 93% in stocks

right now. >> Dave Ramsey would like that. So, here's the deal. Dave is not a fan of the asset allocation theory of let's move you to 60% bonds because we're spooked. Because

the truth is, you are missing out on a whole lot of returns. Cuz you could live another 30 years, right? How old are you? >> Well, I'm 70. My wife plans to live to be a hundred, but I'm going to die first. >> Well, she'll outlive you out of sheer will. That's how the women are.

>> She fights me. Yes. >> So, here >> you're saying you want to pull it into cash.

>> No. No. I I have a money market fund within my Roth and in within within my

pull out of the market. It would be basically a high yield savings account at that point.

>> Yes. >> I would not do that. And is it because you're spooked by the indicators?

>> I'm spooked by the indicators. You know, I've I've I've lived through these corrections before. >> Mhm. >> Um but now I'm 11 months from retirement. >> Yeah. Here's the good news. You guys have some cash and so if the market was way down, what would you do? you would cut way down on your spending for a little bit and maybe dip into your high yield savings and try to not touch retirement, right?

>> Correct. >> Which means you can weather the storm.

>> Cuz here's the truth. If you ignored headlines for the rest of your life, I guarantee you, you would be twice as wealthy than the person who goes, "Well, I'm spooked. Let me jump out. Let me jump back in." >> I always say timing time in the market beats timing the market. And right now, you think you have the crystal ball and so does everyone else. But I'm telling you, put away the crystal ball and just keep it riding. >> But Robert, you also have the gift of um

time, which means you have the gift of knowledge. And think back because you said you've survived it all. Think back on those times where there was a dip.

And think how quickly the market corrected itself. What was it? A year, two years.

>> Yeah, that's true. Cuz I jumped out when COVID hit. >> And what happened? It spiked back up, didn't it? >> It did. >> And do you regret that?

I did because I missed a big part of that uh roller coaster.

>> You're living proof. Most of the best days happen right after the worst days.

And nobody knows how long the worst days are going to be, but usually you stick around in cash sitting on the sidelines way longer than you should and then you jump back in way later when the market's already back up. And so if I'm you, I'm just going to let it sit there and let it grow. And again, if there is a a market correction, not a crash, if there's a dip, you will be able to ride it out.

>> Okay. Well, I need I just needed someone to talk me off the cliff. >> Yeah, we're happy to.

>> I hope I did. And you're you're right.

There are there's indicators that are freaking people out right now. And a lot of people are taking advantage of that.

And it gets clicks, it gets views, it gets you to buy their crypto and their course and their gold and silver. Yeah.

>> But man, I would not adjust anything

you're doing right now. I wouldn't either. And like I said, somebody like Robert who's had 70 years to watch this all play out, he knows better than you and I, you know, me in my 30s and you in your 40s, you know that that was a joke, George. >> Thank you.

I am an old soul. I'm a 70year-old. >> I'm in my 40s. But the point is, he's seen this happen and he knows better than all of us that the recovery is real.

And usually in a couple of years, you're right back actually in a better position than you were before the the negative downturn. So remember that, Robert. >> Whether you're you're 25 or 75, heed that advice. Time in the market beats timing the market.

>> Yes.

What up, Josh?

>> Hi. How are you >> doing? Good. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, so I'm 26 with a net worth of about 800,000.

>> Nice. >> Um, >> thank you. And I'm just trying I've I quit my job two years ago. Um, I'm

deciding whether or not I should return to that highpaying job, which I do not like, or use my savings as a runway to

transition into a different career more aligned with my interests.

>> Why would you go back to a job that you quit that you don't like when you have an $800,000 net worth and you can use it

as a runway to get to the job?

>> Yeah, this is like running back to the toxic ex. >> Yeah. I I I think it's because I mean to

be more specific, I want to build a career as a as a musician. Um, and I understand that the odds of that paying off are low.

>> It depends on what you mean by that.

>> If you want to be the next Bruno Mars, maybe the odds are low, but if you want to make a career in the many, many, many ways that people work in the music industry, I'm sure there's plenty of opport. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, I I'd love to like make music and and like spend time developing marketable skills like content creation, advertising, and running campaigns where if if it doesn't work out as an artist, I'd be able to find a job uh more aligned in that industry.

I I'm just trying to make sure I'm making a financially, you know, responsible decision and have enough runway, you know, >> I wouldn't drain your your savings just because you're trying to pursue music.

Yeah. >> And try to get that off the ground. >> What kind of artist are you trying to be?

>> It's like pop or rap a little bit.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> 26. >> 26. Uh, how long have you been pursuing

music or is you're just getting started at 26? >> I I I've been making music for maybe about 10 years. Um, but I haven't

>> put effort into like >> Yeah, I've been releasing. I just haven't been putting any effort really into content creation or advertising or

or, you know, ad management or anything like that. >> Interesting. >> What's all that talk about ad management? This feels very separate.

Are you wanting to be in marketing and you're sort of like, well, I have these skills I can fall back on in case the music doesn't work out. >> Or are you using that to get >> to have the skills like to fall back on in case the music doesn't work out?

>> Okay. I Well, I could tell you this, you know, and and this is an unpopular opinion, but when it comes to wanting to be an artist, those folks who really make it, they don't have a fallback plan. They go hard into it.

>> It's all they think about. >> It's all they think about. And so, I'm just going to level with you right here. I'm not trying to shoot a dream down, but the way you're talking doesn't sound

like the person who's going to go all in on this and really go get it. Um,

>> I mean, haven't you had two years on the sidelines to be working on it? What happened? >> Uh, I was traveling and learning Spanish

in Argentina.

>> Down to do a lingo, bro. Don't tell me you have this dream of being a musician, and you didn't do it with this 2-year gap you've just had. >> You might be a free spirit, and I do hear that. And for that reason alone, I would not go back to this old job. But I don't hear the go-get factor of sacrificing it all to be the next Bruno Mars. if I mean otherwise send us in your tape and we'll we'll tell you the real truth.

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All right, to the phone lines, we've got Kevin who's in Tallahassee, Florida.

Kevin, you're up.

>> All righty. Hey guys, uh I just had a quick question. Um I really want to be able to get my finances in order uh to help my new wife be able to transition as a stay-at-home mom, but I'm not really sure how to go about that.

>> Well, I love that you're thinking about that and thinking ahead. The first place to start is, is it an affordable thing for you today uh to move that direction?

So, George and I can help you with that.

uh what are you making with her working and what would you be making if she stayed home?

>> So, right now with the both of us working uh we make it's about 8,000 a

month. >> Okay. Um that would put uh without her working

that brings us

>> to about

um sorry >> that's okay. I hear the >> one about 4,000.

>> Okay. So about half >> it'll half the income. >> Woo. That's a big jump. The question is can you afford to do this? So obviously the first questions that I have are do you guys have debt?

Uh, so she when we got married, she came

in with no debt and I came in with all the debt. Um, we just have at at this

point I just have a $4,000 um auto loan. I do have um some credit

cards that were taken to collection about two or three years ago along with a lease >> car that went into repo.

>> How much are the credit cards? Um, it

was two of them. One was $1,000 and one was $3,000.

>> Okay. >> So, about a $4,000 balance on that or are there more penalties and fees?

>> Uh, as far as I've seen, it was just a $4,000. >> Okay. What's the deficit on this repo that you still owe?

>> Uh, so they said that when they took the

car that I would just be free and clear and that it would just take the seven years for it to fall off my credit.

>> Really? Um, >> they didn't come after you for the difference.

No >> positive.

>> So far they haven't. >> How long ago did that happen?

>> About in February in 2025.

>> Uh I would double I would just look into that. I would hate for that to come back as like a zombie debt that you thought was gone and next thing you know you owe like a $10,000 deficit or something.

>> You get served a lawsuit over this thing cuz you didn't pay and one guy on the phone told you, "No, you're good, man." >> Yeah. I'd want whatever it is in writing that I owe nothing and I would keep that paper laminated and like under glass for life. >> Frame it.

>> Okay. So, that will be your homework getting off this call. So, you got 8,000 bucks in debt. Nothing else to speak of?

No student loans? Nothing else?

>> No student loans? Nothing currently? No.

No. >> Okay. Do you have any money in savings?

>> Uh, I currently have $1,000 in an emergency fund. >> Good. >> I just got that in there.

>> Congrats. Is she pregnant right now or are you guys looking to start a family soon? >> No, we're looking to start a family.

>> Great. Okay. You got lots of runway.

>> We're expecting to start trying within a year to be able to make this transition happen. >> I love it. So, I mean, it looks like you're familiar with the baby steps. You've already got the $1,000 saved. So, next on the list is let's pay off this 8,000. And here's a fun experiment.

Let's pretend like we only live on the 4,000. >> Oh, I like that. And that way we can take 4,000 this month and 4,000 next month. Throw it towards the debt. Debt's gone. And in the meantime, we got to experience running our household on $4,000 a month to see how does that feel.

>> Do you like that experiment? >> And then continue putting the four grand in savings. And five, six months later, you've got a fully funded emergency fund. Now we're investing for the future. And we've experimented for months living off of year one income.

>> I like that. So that's that's really the barometer. It's can we cover all of our expenses from my one income and still accomplish our financial goals, which means we got to be investing 15% of our income and for that baby we have to have a little leftover to put towards college and pay off the house eventually. Are you guys renting right now?

>> Uh we are currently. >> Okay, great. So the next step after that might be we want to save up a down payment once baby's here, once we're investing. That might be a longer term goal, but that's really the math on it.

And I hope your income continues to go up. I found that once, you know, mom's staying at home, the husband's like, "All right, I got to go grind a little bit." And maybe that means you're going to get a promotion and and kind of move up in your career as well. What do you do for work? >> So, right now, I'm a correctional officer for the state. >> Okay. What's the sort of ladder in your field to move up?

>> Well, right now, um, we're actually

looking at getting a pay raise from $23 an hour to 28. >> Nice. That's excellent. That's like 10 grand a year. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, that's it would be super exciting.

>> Yeah, that's wonderful >> if we get it. >> But and then we can always promote up

and make a little bit more. But I'm

actually looking at doing a career change for a possible

um uh an even higher >> Yeah. What do you want to get into?

>> I kind of want to get into being a paramedic firefighter. >> Oh, nice. That's cool. Yeah. The main thing to be think about thinking about I I love these career changing discussions. I love the fact that you're thinking about the wife being a stay-at-home mom. Number one thing is just to make sure whatever you do, you have savings built up because that's a bridge that you're coming up against.

And to have money saved is going to help you be able to do that. And then also, yeah, just making sure you're thinking ahead, especially with things like home buying. Uh making sure that on the $4,000 you guys feel good about it. You don't bite off more than you can chew.

especially knowing that you might have a career change coming up.

make this transition and the most research that you can do ahead of time, kind of like what you're doing now, getting all the answers, as many answers as you can anyway, is really going to set you up for success. >> Yeah. And you may want to make that career change before baby's here because it's harder. If there's a gap in income and baby's here and it's solo income, that's going to be a lot harder.

And so I would really work your way through these baby steps fast knowing I want to make this career change. >> Yeah, that's good. >> I like that advice, Jade. You want to make sure that any money move you make is from a place of stability and strength, not from desperation and weakness.

>> Well, yeah. Then you know you're really doing what it is that you want to do and you can kind of take take your time in the way that is appropriate in order to do that.

Thank you for the question, George.

Let's do one of these social questions. We haven't done one of these in a while, and I like them. Hit it. All right. This is Keith from the Ramsay Baby Steps community. He says, "How do you get through years of the boring gazelle intensity grind?" >> Wow. Listen, if it's boring, you're doing it wrong. It's You're not sitting on the couch.

>> Yes. >> Like, you don't have time to be bored.

>> That's true. >> But I think he's saying it just feels like a slog. >> Yeah. I mean, if you've got the average person when they do Baby Step 2, it's really a two-year deal, right? That's that's what we're seeing right now. >> 18 to 24 months is the average.

>> Yeah. And so, but there I mean, there's plenty of you who call in and it took you three years or four years. It took my husband and I seven and a half years.

What was your time? >> Mine was I mean mine was pretty fast. I had a smaller amount of debt, 18 months to pay 40. >> Right on. Right on. And so no matter where you are, there is going to be some moment even if you're one of the 18months who is like I don't feel like

going to my side hustle today or I don't for the love of God can I just order a pizza? You know, whatever it is that it is that you want to do that's going to pop up. And I I think it's so important, George, to have that reason why number one, cuz that's kind of like the north star on this whole thing is why do I want to do this? The reason why can't just be because I want to get out of debt or because I want more money.

>> You said it's a good idea. >> Yeah. >> Don't let Dave be your why. As much as he's gonna be proud of you, but don't let that be your why.

>> You need something more. Um >> maybe baby step three is also I mean that one is boring. Baby step three is way less exciting than two when you're paying off debt. Cuz three you're just like, "All right, I got to stack some cash over here.

I'm not seeing much progress as far as paying off debt and freeing up the payment." You're just sort of building your little your acorns for the winter. Baby step three is a sleeper. I will say in many ways, and I know it's hard to believe, but I actually think that that might be the hardest of the baby steps.

part was over. >> You ran a marathon and you're like, "Wait, there's a 5K after this. I got to run. Oh my god, >> man. You got to start warming up again.

>> Can't catch a break." You know, I think the big thing as far as answering the question and how to stay intense through years of the grind for me, the unlock has been finding ways to reward myself throughout the journey. Whether you're on two, whether you're on three, whether you're on four, five, and six. Um, in baby step two, it's little things like after I pay off this amount of debt, I am ordering the pizza.

Okay, we're going to take the vacation.

Okay, we're going to upgrade the cars.

So, make sure that you're rewarding yourself uh throughout the process.

Nothing that could throw you off track, but just enough to keep you going until the next step.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, just because it's 2026 now doesn't mean 2025's ideas all go away. Some things

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All right, tax time is just around the corner. 2026 taxes. Don't worry, George and I have you covered with everything that you need to know. George, this feels like a a talk nerdy to me segment.

>> It is. That's the We had to brand it so that people would listen in. >> Yeah. So, so, so talk dirty to me about tax day, which which this year is going to be April 15th. It's always April 15th, 2026. Extension deadline, October 15, 2026. Tell us everything we need to know. >> Okay, this is the important parts. These are the changes for 2026. And the big highlights are tax brackets have been adjusted for inflation.

>> Oo. Oo. Ah. And tax rates stay the same.

That's 10% to 37%. So those tax rates for the brackets stay the same. The income thresholds have increased. If you're watching, tell me more.

If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, we have the visuals up so you can see the table because this is one of the most confusing things about taxes. >> People get it twisted. >> People say, "Well, Jade, I don't want to make a dollar more because it'll push me into the next bracket." >> Yeah. >> Assuming the wrong thing.

>> Only that new dollar is taxed at the new rate.

So, let me go over the um the numbers.

So, 10% bracket is up to 12,400 if

you're single, 24,00 filing jointly. Then from that number up

to $50,400 if you're single, 12% bracket

and for married filing jointly, $100,800.

And then we move to the 22% bracket, which is from that 50 grand up to 105,700 if you're single and up to

211,400 if you're married filing jointly. If you're doing the math at home, it doubles for those married filing jointly. >> Keeps it simple. And then 37% which is the highest bracket. Any money you make over $640,600 if you're single will be taxed at the 37% and married filing jointly. Any dollar you make over $768,700

will be taxed at 37%. Have you fallen

asleep yet? >> I I I wanted to, but I forced myself to stay awake in order to say the words, "Yes, paying taxes sucks, but making money is always going to feel nicer." >> Yes. So, you need to think about what the marginal tax rate is versus effective. So effective, meaning yes, you got up into that 22% tax rate, but when you average it all out, it was really 15%.

Is what you paid on your total income. So there you go. That's the federal brackets with the adjusted uh thresholds. >> What about standard deduction increases, George?

>> Don't get me started on the STANDARD DEDUCTION. >> WIND IT UP. LET'S GO. >> So this is uh most people will benefit from taking the standard deduction.

And so this is probably you if you're listening. The standard deduction lowers your taxable income and is now higher again for 2026, which is good news. So standard deduction if you're single is $16,100.

didn't see that money. >> It's a freebie. >> The rest we're going to touch, but that part we won't. Married filing jointly, $32,200.

>> That ain't bad. >> And head of household, $24,150.

>> So for all of you saving up every single receipt thinking that maybe you can outdo it, you're probably not going to. >> Yeah. So, unless you're you're a business owner, you got a a very complex schedule C situation or you're self-employed, some people are 1099, sometimes it makes sense to itemize and uh you can check with a CPA or tax pro on that. >> Now, there's a lot surrounding uh the one big beautiful bill act and I know people I know one big beautiful bill.

There's a lot of questions around that.

How's it going to affect us uh this tax term? George, what do you have to say about that? >> So, uh for anyone that makes tips, you're happy about this. No tax on most tips, which is a first for many workers.

>> I love that. I have to say I think that's great. >> They're hustling out there. Let them have it. And then you've got overtime pay deduction for hourly workers. So, that's nice as well. If you do overtime and then senior, shout out to the ARP members out there. >> You get a deduction, a new $6,000 deduction available whether you go standard or itemized for taxpayers 65

plus, subject to income limits.

>> Okay. Do we know what those are, >> Dave Ramsey? Sorry. Yeah, he ain't getting it. >> He hits the age, but not the income.

>> Not the income. That's okay. He He'll be fine. >> He will survive.

>> All right. I love that. So, just a couple of smart tax tips going forward.

Make sure that you're gathering up your documents early, guys. Don't wait till the last minute. You're going to need your W2s, your 1099s, any receipts.

Start gathering that stuff now. Put it in a folder cuz they're going to need it. Also, you need to decide whether you're going to do this thing yourself or whether you're going to hire a tax pro. Again, if it's simple, just your basic W2, you probably could handle it yourself. Uh, but if it's a little bit more complex, you're probably going to need a pro. Um, if needed, make sure to file your extension. Okay? File the extension, but you still got to pay April 15th. Don't get it.

>> It's illegal to not pay in time. It's not illegal to file the extension. So, it's okay if you don't file in time. File the extension, but you got to pay what you owe. And you can use tax planning to reduce surprises next year.

I always ask my tax guy, hey, what can I do better next year? That's right. What are you seeing? I'm I want to always improve and pay the government a little bit less if I can.

And so, the bottom line for 2026, higher deductions and inflation adjusted brackets may lower your tax burden, but deadlines and planning still matter. So, be proactive to keep more of your income and avoid stress. >> That's right. And George, good tax planning isn't about the loopholes, although we might can find you some of those.

It's about being intentional. You work really hard. Don't give more than you need to to the IRS.

If you get a refund this year, just know you overpaid the government as a a blessing to them and they said, "No, we can't take that legally. You can have it back." >> That's right. That's money that you could be putting towards whatever baby step you're on. So, take a closer look at that. But for any questions around how to file taxes or if you need to work with one of our pros, go ahead and head to ramseyolutions.comtaxes.

That's ramseyolutions.comtaxes.

All right, George. >> We did it. I feel good. That was very, very nerdy. That might be the nerdiest we've ever gotten. >> No insults, no injuries. We all learned something. Use that at your next trivia night. >> Woo. All right, let's go back to the phone lines. Taylor in Chattanooga, take us back down to earth. What's up?

>> Yeah, so me and my wife have accumulated about $92,000 in consumer debt, and we

have a plan to get out in the next 24

months, but I just want to make sure it's the right plan. >> Yeah. Tell us, is it the Ramsay plan?

Tell us what your plan is.

>> Well, um, so it's actually kind of

complicated. So, we owe in bills about

$3,000 a month that we're just trying to survive on at the moment.

>> Okay. >> But we also want to take anything extra and throw it at bills. And we don't have a $1,000 emergency fund. Um, we just can't afford to do that. and I'm 100% commission based real estate agent. Um,

so checks don't always come.

>> But how you're saying you can afford to pay off 92,000 in 24 months, but you can't afford a $1,000 emergency fund.

>> Not at this moment. >> Why?

What does that mean? Explain why you feel that way.

So, so basically my wife is a full-time

student and she's a full-time worker and she makes just enough to cover the bills. Um, my checks are kind of far and

far in they have a lot of space in between them at times.

>> Um, so when we do make the money, we just started this plan. Got it.

>> Um, this is the first month. So the money that we just had, we wanted to make sure we were good for the next couple months because this debt really weighs on me. >> What kind of debt is this? Can you break down the 92,000?

>> Yeah. So about $45,000 is her car and

we're upside down on that one. It's probably worth about 33. So we're upside down about um 13. Um 17 is my car. 17 is

a personal loan and then the rest is credit cards. >> Okay. How much is the credit cards so I don't have to do the math?

>> I'd probably say about 8 to 9,000.

>> Okay. >> Maybe 10. So, my first order of

business, I really would be trying to get out of this $45,000 car. It's worth it to get the $13,000 loan um and figure

out a way to just get a cash beater, spend four or 5,000. I think that's going to be worth it to you. And at the end of the day, you're more like 18,000 in on a car versus 45,000 in on a car.

Have you tried that?

>> We have not. We've looked into a lot of options into getting out of the car, but at this point, we just kind of gave up on trying to get out and just more trying to pay it off. >> What did you look into?

>> Um, selling it and trying to get something super cheap, but we don't have cash saved up. We're actually like, you know, at times are $100.

>> So, what you would need in our account, >> what you'd need to do is you'd have to get a loan for the difference since you don't have it. You would you wouldn't be able to sell this car for 45,000 cuz

it's not worth that. What you would need to do is go down to a credit union, go to a bank. I don't care how you get the loan. Anything's going to be better than this $45,000.

And then from there, you have an irregular income. It doesn't mean you can't contribute. It just means that you need a peaks and valleys fund over to the side and use your income to build that up so you always have a month's worth of income there. That way, you feel the freedom to actually use your monthly cash flow towards the debt and towards an active budget.

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Back to the phone lines. We've got Saber in Atlanta, Georgia. That's a strong name. I like it. What's up, Saber?

>> Hi, Jaden George. I have a quick question. My husband and I are disagreeing on to buy or not to buy a house. >> To buy or not to buy, that is the question. Tell us, tell us both sides of the equation.

>> Um, so he is 68 and I am 57

and I feel like I don't want to take on that risk because he's older.

>> Okay. So, I don't know. So, I have a fear factor of doing that.

>> Now, the fear factor of him being older, is it we'll get this house, we won't pay it off in time, there's not enough money there, and I'll be left if he passes with this huge mortgage. Is that what you're saying?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Tell us about you guys' net worth.

>> Um, so we have our Baby Step three. We

have our fully funded emergency fund.

Okay. >> We have about $20,000 in savings and we

have about $100,000 in investment.

>> Okay. $100,000 in retirement investments.

>> Correct. >> And that's all you've got?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Now, when you said the 20,000 saved, that's the emergency fund. Or was that above the emergency fund?

>> Above the emergency fund. >> Above. Okay. You both working full-time?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What do you guys make as a household?

>> Uh, we bring home about 120ish.

>> Okay. And what's the plan for the house purchase and the down payment and the price, all of that?

>> Well, that's where we're kind of having an issue because I want to put all the extra money into retirement funds and he

wants to not do that and get a chance for a down payment. Yeah, I I do think at this age, you're going to want to do that simultaneously because with no debt, you're going to want to take advantage of that 15% as much as you can at age 57 and 68. Um, how much of the

$120,000 income is his and how much of it is yours and how long does he plan to continue working?

>> We make about the same right now. He um

plans on working at least until 75 probably. Yeah, because I don't think he has a choice. Okay, good. Um, >> do you guys have any debt?

>> No. >> Okay, that's good news. So, if you look

at the baby steps, you guys are square in baby step four, which means you're investing 15% of your household income.

So, that's step number one. We want to at least be doing that. So, for you guys at 120, that's 18,000 a year going into retirement accounts.

Then anything above and beyond that we can now put in a separate account for a down payment.

So based on that, how long will it take you to have a solid down payment and then have a mortgage payment that you guys can actually afford based on your take-home pay? That's the big question mark. What does a house cost that you guys are looking at?

>> Um probably around 350.

>> Okay. And you we're starting from zero here with our down payment. So what is your down payment goal? Have you guys crunched any of those numbers to go, "Hey, we'd like to have $50,000 to put down." >> Well, I I hear Dave all the time say 20%. I would like to have a little more.

I'd like to have 60 to $75,000 to put

down. >> Yeah. I think for you guys' equation, the way you have to look at it these days is what you have to put down to get it uh to where it's no more than 25% of your take-home. And at this point, it usually is going to be more than that 20% rule that kind of got squeezed out with the housing market.

So, I would be looking in a in a calculator and say, "Okay, what do we need to put down? What do we need to solve for in order to have that take-home pay where it's no more than I'm sorry, to have that mortgage where it's no more than 25% of our take-home pay after taxes." And so, that's what I'd be looking for.

>> Um, in my every dollar, we do about 6,000 average a month. >> Okay. And that's just after taxes. We've already >> That feels real low. >> Taxes, but we've >> Well, we al we've already had money taken out for the investments at that point. >> Okay. So, what you want to do is find out the number. That's just the after tax number. >> It's probably closer to 8,000.

>> Correct. We put 2,800 a month into retirement. >> Oh, you guys are really socking it away.

Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. >> So, you may want to ratchet that down.

Otherwise, it's going to take you seven years to save up a down payment. Do you see how we need to split the difference here? ratchet it down,000%.

Now it's 1,500 going into retirement, which just freed up 1,300 to go into savings. You see what we did there?

>> Yes. >> And now we can start saving, you know, more measurably to go, hey, we can have 20 grand a year. So in three years, we'll have the down payment to put down.

And you know, that might get you close.

Right now on my calculator, I'm seeing about 2500 bucks a month for that mortgage with the numbers you just gave me on a 15-year.

>> Okay. which means we either need to save a little more, rates need to come down a little more. The home value, we need to maybe look in a $300,000 home. So, there's going to be some compromises here or we go make more and we speed up this whole process and we can increase the amount of mortgage we can take on.

But we need to also understand seven years from now he's not going to be working anymore. Well, now you need to be able to cover that mortgage off of whatever income you have, social security, you continuing to work, all of that, >> right? So, I think those are the those are the problems or they're not problems, they're equations that you need to solve for in order to go into this with a peaceful state. I'm all for you guys having a place of your own and going into retirement with something that you can call yours as opposed to in a renters's position.

I think that the mortgage is the biggest line item on your budget and you want to go into retirement having control over that. So, what George said is just right. It's going to take some time for you to sit down and think of this, but the advice that I want you to take away from us and that I want you to share with your husband so you guys can discuss is you got to do the investing and the saving for the down payment simultaneously. And it's really going to help you do that by keeping the investment at its proper amount at 15%.

If you try to do more than that, it's really going to make this thing lopsided and it's going to be harder for you guys to do the things that you need to do to put you in the safest position uh in the right amount of time. So that's me. Final word on that. >> Yeah, I'm going.

If you could do 1,500 to retirement and throw 3,000 into the down payment fund, that's 36 grand a year. You got your down payment in two years while investing.

>> Yeah, I like that plan, too. And let's kind of zoom out on this a little bit because I do think that this is something that people ask us a lot. Uh even if it's somebody who was in baby step two, maybe it took them a really long time uh to do baby step 2. maybe they're already in their 40s or something like that and they're thinking about buying a house.

Once you get into baby steps four, five, and six, you really guys don't want to delay you don't want to delay the down payment really any more than 2 to 3 years.

uh, delay it by your investing, if that makes sense. So, if you think that it's going to take you more than 2 to 3 years to save your down payment, you should probably go ahead and start investing beyond that two years because we really don't want you to miss out anymore on any more time in the market. is basically what that boils down to. And that's why I suggested what I suggested with them is because they're already 57

and 68 years old. Like they they don't have the time to waste. >> I would be projecting, hey, based on the real numbers of our social security, what I'll be making, can we afford to cover this mortgage payment without his current income? >> Yeah, that's the big that's the big number that you're going to want to know because the truth is they're probably not going to have time to pay off a mortgage before he retires.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's seven years from now. >> And if they get the house in 2 years, we got 5 years to knock out this entire mortgage >> with that income, it's not going to happen. And so, we need to look at reality.

>> Yes. And another good reason for a 15-year mortgage versus a 30-year mortgage because that's going to give her a lot more security. >> She'll pay it off in her lifetime. >> Exactly.

Exactly. So, there's a lot of reasons.

that you could possibly be in. It's very conservative, but that at the end of the day, you're not going to be worried about your house. Yeah. 15-year mortgage, you're not going to be worried about if you have enough in retirement, if you do the things that we teach in the order that we teach it. So, it's super duper important. >> And remember this, retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. So, I don't care if you go, "Well, I'm 67.

It's time to retire." Not if you're broke. >> That's right. So, you don't just get to because it's time for everyone to go live in the in, you know, their 55 plus community. You get to retire when you can afford to cover all of your expenses from the investments you have.

And maybe social security is gravy on top. But never rely on that. Especially the younger generations. We all see the writing on the wall.

All right. >> We know social security. I mean, it has the ability.

>> Uncle Sam is uh not doing great financially. They're like $ 38 trillion in debt. They're running out of money left and right. And so we got to look at the cards and go, we got to invest for ourselves. We can't rely on any program.

You got to create your own ship here. Build your own ark. >> And you'd want to do that anyway because they're investing that money. Obviously, there's not enough of it to go around anymore. >> It was never meant to replace 100% of your income. >> That's right. Yeah. Exactly. So, let this be a word to the wise. Do your own investing. Think ahead and be proactive, guys. Work these baby steps.

All right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, Jade Warshaw, you ready to get to these phones? >> I'm your hype man. Let's go. >> I'm ready. Keegan's ready. He's in Cincinnati, Ohio. What's up, Keegan?

>> Hi. Um, I was calling in cuz we live in a hotel and we just totaled our card that we use for Instacart. How do we recover? >> From what part?

>> The hotel. >> All three.

>> All three. Yeah. >> Okay. So, you want to get out of the hotel? >> We want to get out of it. First, we need to get a new car. Second, we want to get out of this hotel cuz she's pregnant.

And um, >> how long have you been in this hotel and why? And why? Because some family things

with her family and um I kind we lived up in Columbus and she had some stuff going on with her family and we decided to move.

>> Okay. Did you So you did not have your

own place prior to this. You were living with family? >> I was living with my parents.

>> How old are you guys?

>> I'm 21. She's 24.

>> Okay. So you're in the hotel. How long have you been in the hotel?

>> Since about July. >> Oh boy. >> Goodness. What What's the rate to stay there?

>> It's like It's expensive. It's like

1,400 a month or something.

>> Okay. 1,400 a month. And what's your

income? I mean, I know the car got totaled, but what are you earning?

>> So, we were earning about like $800 a

week. >> Was that both of you doing Instacart or what? How? >> That was both of us doing it together.

Yeah. In one car. One car.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, can I ask why why why is one

of you not working outside of the car basically? >> So, we I was but then I just had to quit my job because I wasn't getting paid well enough for us to like kind of survive off of it and Instacart was just better for both of us cuz situations we really couldn't control. But, um, I wasn't getting paid overtime and I was working so much but they didn't pay me overtime for it. So, >> and what kind of job were you working?

>> I was working for a marketing firm.

>> Okay. And so, you would get a marketing job today if you could.

>> Yeah, I would. >> Okay. And how about her?

>> She would probably do something server related. >> Okay. And can you do that as we speak?

Can you work at this hotel? That would probably be a better bet right now.

>> Like, what do you mean? Oh, no. I've tried, but they said they don't have anything. >> What about cleaning rooms?

I they have someone who does that.

>> Okay. And did you not have insurance?

>> I did, but we only had um liability.

>> Okay. So, it's on you.

>> Okay. So, >> kind of Yeah. >> What must happen? I mean, this is as quickly as you can. Instacart's not an option anymore, clearly. So, both of you have got to I don't care if it's walking down to the nearest fast food place or walking over to Walmart or Target. You got to you got to get something somewhere that's within walking distance or bus riding distance.

>> Yeah. Say I can we can Uber some places but that just gets expensive. >> How much money do you guys have? >> That's why I said bus riding.

>> Uh not enough to keep us afloat for like

another week maybe. >> Do you have like a few hundred bucks?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And do you have any debt?

>> Yeah, I we both personally do. I have like five, six grand in credit card debt and she has like four.

>> So all credit cards about 10 grand total. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And there was no car loan to speak of.

>> Okay. >> No, no, we paid the car in cash.

>> Okay, that's good. At least >> that's good. Yeah, that's good. >> Do you guys have any friends or family that you can lean on right now? A church community? Anything?

>> No. I mean, honestly, no.

>> Okay.

Well, you're going to need to find something because this hotel is about to kick you out. Yeah. Mhm.

>> Yeah. I've talked to them before and we like kind of talked to them. So, like I was hoping maybe they could help us out just by a little bit of time, but I don't know if that really is realistic or not. >> How often are they having you pay?

Is it every week? Is it How often do you have to make the payment? >> Usually weekly, but sometimes they let me get a like I'll be they let me get a little behind and pay it back if I need to. >> Okay.

Okay. Yeah. I'd be requesting I'd let them know what happened number one and say, "I know I've been paying you weekly. Can I pay you, you know, at the end of the month?

Can we make this more of a monthly deal? Cuz right now you guys are kind of like, >> this is desperate. Can you get a bicycle off Facebook Marketplace >> for $40 >> and make it somewhere and work?

>> Like Kroger? >> Great. >> Perfect. >> There's like a Kroger. >> How close? >> Um, >> is it walkable? Bikable?

>> Yeah, within like a mile.

>> Okay, that's what I want you to do. That's your homework after both of you are getting a job at Kroger today.

>> Yeah. make after this call, literally right after, talk to uh your girlfriend and you guys sit down and make a list of everything that's in a two to three mile radius. Waff a Waffle House, Kroger,

McDonald's, everything. And I want you guys, that's your field trip this afternoon and tomorrow is you're going to apply at every one of those locations until you get a job. >> This is the gap between you guys and homelessness. Do you understand how on fire this is? >> Exactly.

>> Like you don't even have a car to sleep in at this point. >> Yeah. No, exactly. That's what made it like scary today is cuz like we've at least had options like okay this this and I'm sure if I like it's just scary cuz like I don't we don't know where what the next plan is essentially like I was hoping they can help.

I'm sure they I know the owner and the manager pretty well here and I'm we're pretty like close to each other. >> That's good.

>> So yeah. >> So do that. >> Yeah, exactly. I was going to say like that'll only last me maybe two weeks.

>> Yeah. Do that homework that I just gave you. Um, and then the second piece of homework is I want you to find a local church and I want you to walk up in there after you've applied at all these places and I want you to walk up in there and say, "Here's the deal." And I want you to tell them exactly what you just told George. >> We're scared.

We're borderline homelessness. We're just we're we're good people. We just want to find some honest work. >> Ask them say, "I I we can Can we serve and and get a wage?

Is there something that we can do to earn some money? We really need help and we're willing to work in order to have it." Okay.

Okay. I said there's like a because we gone to a church over here a couple of times and >> there was a Catholic church that kind of helped us out with rent like not the past month. >> Mhm. >> So like there's people that I think may help.

I just don't know if we should ask the church, the same Catholic church again and be like, "Hey, >> if you're willing to work, I would I would say I'm not just asking for like benevolence. Can can I work? Is there something I can do? Can I, you know, help with parking in the morning?

Can I help with this or that? Do you need something out of store?" like whatever it is, I would be willing to work and whatever. I mean, >> go to a couple and say, "We're just trying to get back on our feet and we're willing to work and serve to do that." Um, and I think this is you guys can pull yourself out of this.

So, I want you to remember that >> and you worked at a marketing firm and so I would be looking for that next gig so that you can afford to get a car and that might mean we start with the bicycle and then we upgrade to the moped and then we upgrade to the beater car and then we go from there.

>> But you just need the next right thing to get you to survive another day right now. And then long term we need to figure out a life plan cuz whatever got us here ain't it. And I heard a lot of, well, we had to and then this thing happened and the family. At some point, we have to just look in the mirror and go, dude, I can only control the guy in the mirror >> and everything can't just happen to us.

You have to start happening to your life. Otherwise, you're going to be right back here next week.

>> True. >> Yeah. So, that's that's current order of business. Just to recap, you're you're making a top 10 list of everything in a three mile radius, and you're going there.

You guys are literally hitting the pavement and going to apply everywhere. Then, you're hitting up these churches. then you're circling back. I would wait after you've done those three thing those two things.

Then I'd circle back to the hotel and say, "Here's what's happened to us and here's what I did today to correct it." But just so you know, it's probably going to take a couple of weeks for this to pan out. Can I pay you the rent at the end of the month instead of at the end of this week? And that's, you know, hopefully going to be your savings grace here, guys.

Truly, truly. >> Stay warm. Stay fed. Four walls, man.

That's all you need to cover right now. Don't worry about the credit cards right now. We'll get there.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our get started assessment. Go to ramseyolutions.com/start.

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So, if you're working the baby steps, the best and the fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. Now, it's a plan that's built right in. The Ramsey plan is built and baked into the app, people.

You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations and coaching specifically for your situation that's going to help you free up more money and work the pl the plan even faster. It's like having one of us walking with you every single day in your pocket, showing you the next right step and holding you accountable. So start every de every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play today. Alrighty then. Let's

go to Gwyn who's in Lynchburg, Virginia.

Gwyn, you're up.

Um, so my question is about medical debt and who I can contact to potentially get

this taken care of.

>> What kind of medical debt? Like how long is how old is it?

>> So um, our son turned two in October.

Um, he was born um, premature.

>> What's the total medical debt?

>> Um, Sorry, you're breaking up on us, Gwen.

>> Can you speak clearly into your phone?

>> Can you hear me? >> Yes.

>> Okay. So, um, we have two different totals from the same hospital. Okay.

>> The first one is almost $6,000

and the second one is right at 17,000.

>> Okay. Wow. My goodness. >> Do you guys have insurance?

>> We do. Um, and we had it ever since he

was born, which is my confusion.

>> Okay. So, you're saying it didn't get run through insurance properly or what happened?

>> Yes. Um, and the hospital won't meet with us um to figure out where the confusion happened and

it's been over a year. So, this technically isn't their responsible. it.

>> They've sent it to collection.

>> Have you Have you tried resubmitting the claims through your insurance?

>> I have. Um, but we're running into the issue of it being over a year old.

>> At what point did you try resubmitting the claims >> because they come in pretty soon after the fact?

>> Well, we were in the NICU for um over 3 months. Okay. >> So, when they didn't bill any of it

until after we were out of the NICU >> and we didn't start receiving like the

itemized bills until probably October um which was close to that year mark already, >> okay, >> from all the hospital bills because it took them a while to run everything.

>> Well, even if it's in collections, you can still dispute it. It's not stuck at that charge. And so, you have the right to dispute it. You can send a certified dispute letter to the collection agency, not just a hospital. And when it's formally disputed, you actually write them a letter. They have to stop collection activity until they can verify it.

>> Okay? >> So, that's your next piece of homework is you write this dispute letter, send it to the collection agency, and after

verification, then you can negotiate.

And you can ask for the patient advocate or the billing supervisor. Those are the people you want to get in touch with. The front desk people cannot help you.

And so you need to keep pushing to get in touch with them. You don't need to physically sit down with them, but you need to get in touch with them, pester them until they go, I got to get Gwen off my back. They're call, she's calling me four times a day trying to get in touch. >> Yeah, >> cuz it sounds like it it truly sounds like some of these didn't even run through insurance or be submitted.

resubmit the claim.

>> And at that point, you can go, hey, I need an itemized bill. Let's rerun that through insurance. And then you'll get a final total, and then you can dispute that with collections, and they can adjust the charge, and you can then settle and pay it off. >> Yeah.

Which is I'm sorry that you're going through that. That's probably the last thing that you want to be going through. You know, you got a preeie to take care of. That's tough.

>> Yeah, super frustrated. Sorry you're going through that, Gwen, but thank you for the call. Uh Mark is in San Diego, California. Hey, Mark. How can we help today? >> Hi, how you doing? Um, I'm just trying to figure out if uh me and my wife are able to buy a house um out here in San Diego. For some background information,

uh, we've already been here 3 years.

We're both military, so we'll be here another three years. Um, but the past 3 years we've been staying in apartments um, and paying about $3,000 a month >> in um, in rent. Mhm.

>> Um and together we make monthly

um about 13,000 together.

>> Okay. >> Um >> what kind of money do you have saved?

>> Yeah. So that that's the thing. Uh we only have like $8,000 um saved right

now. >> Okay. >> Um I'm not sure where all of our money is going. I mean, we do a budget, but I feel like our lifestyle is maybe like

increased or or something cuz it's called lifestyle creep. The more you make, the more you spend. >> Yeah. You got $10,000 going somewhere.

Is do you have any kids?

>> Uh, we don't. It's just me here.

>> Oh, man. Y'all are living.

We do a budget. What does that actually mean?

>> Uh, we actually sit down and um, you know, we go over together. I think maybe most of our money is going like to syncing funds. you know, maybe I'm paranoid about that like for cart maintenance and registration over time.

Um, it's just one example and then maybe like savings uh like as in like trips or I don't know something. >> Okay. Do you guys have any debt right now?

>> We have zero debt. >> Okay. So, your next order of business is stocking up the savings account. You can keep the saving the scing funds. That makes sense. You don't need 17 of them, but if you want to have a car maintenance and repair fund with a reasonable amount in there, that's fine.

But I suspect if I took a look at your bank statement, it would tell a different story of a lot of eating out, a lot of shopping, a lot of just kind of sloppiness around all around.

>> Probably. Yeah. >> But if you got control of this, you guys could stack up cash so fast.

>> I mean, what what would it cost?

>> What What are you the the properties or the condos that you're looking at? What do they cost?

>> Yeah. So, our well, our lease actually ends in May, which is why I'm kind of like looking at this now because I'm trying to figure out whether to, you know, for another year stay in this apartment or move out. I'm looking about $750,000 is about average house out here.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Move out of our apartments. >> So, here's >> into a house. >> Here's the tough part with that. Uh, with your timeline, you told me you've got three more years in this location.

It's hard. And then a year of that's going to be spent saving for this down payment, which puts you kind of at a two-year horizon. I'm not sure that I would get into that situation that you're going to have to turn around and move right back out and try to sell that place.

>> Is it is it guaranteed that in three years you're moving >> or you'll be relocated? >> It's It's not guaranteed because like I said, we can get another three three years here probably if we like if we

really work to get it. we could probably honestly get it. And I feel like the past three years, I've been throwing my life away uh at with just paying rent.

And I feel like I'm >> You're not throwing anything away. You're buying patience here, Mark. Cuz here's the truth. How are you going to afford a $750,000 home four months from now?

>> What was I see on the screen it says VA loan? >> Mhm. >> Well, is that your question?

>> Oh, were you going to try to put like nothing down?

>> Correct. Exactly. >> Okay. Let let's play that out. Uh nothing down. >> I'll put I'll put let's say $5,000 down.

Your payment would be about $7,300 a month. >> Mhm. >> Now rent looks like a deal, doesn't it?

>> That's true. >> So you're not throwing away money on rent. It's actually a better deal for you right now because of your where you're living and how much money you guys have to just stay put and renew that lease and keep getting the income up, keep stacking cash away. The truth is for your first home to buy an $800,000 home, it doesn't make sense.

>> No, that's you're level jumping >> and you would need like $400,000 down to make it make sense even with your incredible incomes.

>> Now, let me ask you this, cuz in many ways, the idea of being relocating could be a blessing for you guys. You could get to a less expensive area. Would your pay remain the same? Let's pretend you got stationed elsewhere, maybe somewhere up north. It maybe a little uh less expensive cost of living. Would your pay remain the same?

>> Uh, no. It would it would probably uh decrease um dorically and then that's where we would like rent out the house or sell it cuz everyone down here is all about, you know, >> you're going to lose money on that deal.

>> If I were you, I would spend this time.

You've got 3 years with a great income.

You've got an extra $10,000 a month after you've paid rent. If you guys really get on a true budget, we'll make sure you get on an every dollar budget.

This could be the time that you guys are stacking up so that if and when you do get relocated, then you'll be ready to actually put down some roots and buy something that makes sense that's within your price range.

If you've been paying off debt, working the plan, and have reached baby step 4 or beyond, you've done the hardest part.

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All right, the Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it's time for a plan. Yrefi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment so you can get back on the baby steps and start making progress. So go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Remember it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Bobby in New Mexico. My wife and I are in our 70s and we are retired. We have no debt. We have a little over 300,000 in retirement funds and our home is worth about $450,000.

Between social security and investment income, we make about 70 grand per year.

I'm trying to eliminate as many expenses as possible from our budget. And my question is regarding our term life policies. We are paying $225 per month

for two policies with $250 grand and $500,000 payouts. I want to cancel them, but my wife wants to keep them. Our kids are all doing well and don't need any financial help. What should we do?

>> I wonder how much is left on the term?

>> That's a good question. Is it like one year left or is there 10 years left?

>> But $225 a month, I mean, that's sizable. And you know, term life, it's going to get more expensive as you get older. You take out a policy at 60, it's a lot more expensive than if you did it at 30. So the the point of term life

insurance is to replace your income if something were to happen to you to cover those that are dependent on you. And so the fact that you guys have social security and investment income that covers you without needing to work that gives me a little bit of peace if you wanted to cancel them. >> That's true. >> Now is this thing burning a hole in your pocket at 200 bucks a month?

It's not the thing that's tanking you. And so I think so. Yeah. if it's not a big part of your budget and it helps your wife sleep better at night knowing that you know she's covered.

there's not a whole lot of time left.

Hopefully you live to be in your 90s but Lord Lord only knows when you could go and so >> I think the piece is how much time is left. That's the big crux on this.

>> Yeah. cuz I'd be I'd be inclined to keep it because at 70,000 a year with no payments, I can't see 225 breaking you.

>> Yeah. Two grand out of that to cover these policies is not a huge deal breaker. So, I would personally hold off on cancing them. Uh it's it's a good deal right now for you as far as the payout versus what you're paying per year. and in your 70s, I would also look at your health and go, "Hey, realistically, how long do you think we'll live barring any kind of crazy accident, God forbid?" And so, um, I'm glad you guys have Term Life. That's awesome. And I would definitely pause on

this because your wife wants to keep it and because of your age and because of how small of a portion it is of your life as it stands. >> Yeah. And I could see with only 300,000 in retirement, her wanting the extra

500,000 if something should happen to him. I could see that being a safety valve for sure. >> Yeah. >> You know, I'd probably say the same thing.

Keep it. >> Yeah. I actually was just looking at I was on uh Xander's website getting quotes today to add another policy and it was shocking how affordable it is, especially as you're younger. I'm, you know, 36 >> and I was looking I was just clicking around and I went, "Okay, let's say you wanted a million-doll policy." Well, for a 10year million- dollar policy, it was like 26 bucks.

You bump it up to 15, it goes up a little bit.

it would be it would be more expensive later on. So they just take the average and go your payment is this. That's a level term life policy. And we always recommend if anyone depends on your income, you need a term life policy that's worth 10 to 12 times your annual income.

So you make $100,000, you need a million to 1.2 million in term life. And a 15 to 20-year term is what you're looking at, especially because you're following the baby steps. That's right. So, you're house is going to be paid off by then.

You've been investing for years. So, if you need a policy, you probably do.

>> Yeah. And to be sure, the point is to get to the point where you're self-insured and you don't need these anymore. Like I said, in their case, they seems like they're on the line with the $300,000 nest egg. I would love if they had three million.

>> Yeah. Listen, if they had 700, I'd feel a lot better about them cancing that.

So, that's what you're that's the whole picture of this, guys. All right, let's go to the next thing. We've got Patricia. She's in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Patricia.

Patricia, >> are you there? It >> was a good effort. >> It was a good effort. >> Was she on mute? Maybe. I always wonder.

>> I'll come back to you later, Patricia.

>> Okay, we'll get there. >> All right. Instead, let's go to John.

He's in Los Angeles, California. John, are you there?

Yep, I'm here. >> What's up, John? How can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I'm looking to get a new car.

Um, my car is getting older and I'm having a lot of issues with, you know, the engine and stuff, so I've been spending a lot of money to keep it running. Uh, I drive a lot for work and I'm trying to rationalize getting a car

for 30,000 versus getting one for 15.

Um, but I feel like I'm in my car a lot, so I want to love what I drive. And um, financially I've been preparing for this moment for a long time. So I I think I can. >> So you have the cash for 30,000. You have 30,000 cash.

>> Yeah, I can put 30,000 up.

>> Interesting. What do you earn? What's your income?

>> I make 85,000 a year. Um, but I'm like

very meticulous with how I spend my money, where it's going. Um, and I have

my emergency funds, investments. So, I I think uh if I can get to that number, that would be okay. Yeah. >> But I wanted to. >> And you have no debt?

>> No debt, >> man. Way to go. How old are you?

>> 26. >> Goodness gracious. >> Good job. Way to go. >> I'm very impressed. >> I tell you what, we have some folks calling in at 26, and I'm praying for them. But you're >> very rarely have I green lit a 26-year-old buying a $30,000 car. And you, sir, I have checked all my boxes.

You're paying cash. It's no more than half your annual income and you've got no debt and an emergency fund in place.

You're investing for the future. And so, here's what you need to know about buying a $30,000 car that you use for work. You are going to drive this thing into the ground and depre depreciation is going to hit it so hard. This car is going to be worth 15 grand from now.

That's what you need to be prepared for.

And that's okay because you're paying cash. You can't be underwater on a car you paid cash for. Just know that you need to ride this thing out. The longer you drive it, the better of a deal it is.

>> Yeah, that's the plan. I mean, it's a it's a Honda Civic hybrid, so I I mean >> Oh, yes, my man.

>> That is a fiscally responsible 26-year-old. >> Yeah, it is. Good for you, my guy. I love it. I I have nothing more to add. I mean, I would go I would go drop that cash today. >> Maybe an upgrade to the Accord. A little roomier. Who knows? Get crazy.

>> I don't know. the the I there's a Honda

Accord person. It's not me.

>> I'm not a car person. I don't feel this is controversial. You can drop it in the comments. I don't feel safe in a car. I

think I've always been in an SUV. And so when I get in a car, I'm like number one, I feel so close to the ground >> and it feels so small. I just feel like if somebody hits me, it's curtains for me. >> Oh wow. That's dark. I will say my dream

car, this was during CO and I wanted to upgrade from my09 Civic and I was looking at an Accord hybrid >> that was like a 2018. This is during co 2 years old, three years old.

>> I could not find one for under $30,000 cuz remember how expensive cars were.

>> That's right. Used cars particularly.

Yeah. >> And so I gave up. I gave up on car shopping for a little bit and then I fell into a very old Tesla >> that that's I still have on my person.

>> It gets the job done. >> It gets the job done. >> Oh my goodness gracious. I He's thinking hybrid fuel efficiency, no issues.

That's a smart man. >> I love that. Okay, going back to our questions from social media. I like this. It says, let's see. Let's go to Michael. H, let's do that. Let's go to Sarah from Facebook. Our 16-year-old son just graduated college and has his first job. He's too young for their 401k, so

what would be some good options for him to invest in other than high yield savings? Wow, what an impressive man.

>> He's so young, he can't even contribute to the 401k. >> Well, the fact that a 16-year-old has a job at a place with a 401k tells me big boy stuff. So, here's the good news. Uh, you can always invest into a Roth IRA as

long as he has earned income. He can put up to that much in a Roth IRA. And the limits this year, I believe, are 7,500.

>> That's a lot of money. Yeah. And so if he makes at least $7,500 this year, he can put $7,500 into a Roth IRA, which means after tax money, he's not going to get a deduction for it, but then it grows taxfree for the rest of his life.

And let me tell you, you can pop this into an investment calculator. 16 years old, $7,500 one time at 66. It would

blow your mind how many hundreds of thousands of dollars that turns into with you out without you lifting a finger. >> That's right, man. This kid's a genius.

16 years old, graduating from college with his first job in a 401k.

>> You raised him right. Woo! I'll >> tell you that much. >> Gosh, I'm feeling behind in life.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsay's Real Estate Home Base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start to finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

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Our scripture and quote of the day, Ecclesiastes 4:9-10. Two are better than one because they have a good return for their work. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them. M Henry Ford said, "Obstacles

are those things you see when you take your eyes off the goal." Interesting, man. I was on that Ecclesiastes that I pity somebody who >> I wanted to give you I pity the fool.

>> I pity the fool. That's a Mr. T reference for anybody who doesn't know about that >> throwback. >> All right, Stephen in Los Angeles, California. I bet he knows who Mr. T is.

What's up, Stephen?

>> Hey, good afternoon, guys. What's going on? How can we help Stephen? Uh, >> yeah, my question is uh you know, I'm in the process of selling my business and uh just at the same time, my wife got a uh well, the company that she works for pull out of California and is trying to get us to relocate to Texas.

>> Oh. Um I uh

I own my business here for a couple years and I support my parents here. We I owe both the house my parents and our primary resident in California. So my main question is uh you know watch Phil and I and about you guys opinion um should I should we stay and take the sirens or should we just pursue I don't know fulfillment of life and pursue career

which is seems to be in a in a pretty good upward tra trajectory.

>> Interesting. >> Are you excited about it?

>> Well we just don't know what to do. It's it's a big dilemma for us because you know we we have all our roots and family here in California. it'll be pretty hard to, you know, to to to leave everything and and just move to another state.

>> Is there a big um is there anything

financially that would make it a really great move?

>> You know, I I don't think so. I I've

I've invested since I was young. Uh I'm uh I'm about to turn 40. So, uh uh I

have pretty healthy savings account.

It's more of a whether you want to just because I have no plans after I sell my business. Uh, and I don't want to say like I want to stay in California because of the weather. >> Do you plan on selling it soon?

>> Yeah, it's already it's already in process. >> Oh, okay. And what are you going to make from that?

>> Uh, probably like 1.5 million.

>> Okay. And what do you already have saved?

>> I, you know, like I said, I started young investing, so I I probably have

about 4 million in in my uh savings

account. >> Dude, way to go. >> Yeah. Excellent. >> This gives you flexibility.

So, stock 41k, IRA, Roth, you name it.

Um, yeah.

>> And you're not sure what you'll do after this? Like, you haven't you don't have your eye on the next thing?

>> I have no plans.

>> I have no plans. And like I said, I'm I'm not even 40 and I and I don't want to just like quit and do nothing.

>> Sure. >> You you have too much to contribute to society with a guy as sharper as you.

So, I hope you and I'm sure you will move on to something awesome next. But the the big question is, you know, the family part, you know, is she going to make more there's going to be more stability, long-term opportunity, lower cost of living, all of that, better quality of life. Is that going to be true in Texas?

>> I don't know. Um, that's the part that we're trying to figure out. She she's a very very career oriented person. Like, you know, fulfillment of life comes comes with having a good career. >> Well, I'm sure they're going to cover relocation costs, right?

>> Oh, absolutely. Yeah. >> And what's her pay raise going to be?

Uh, she makes about 150 right now and

she's probably going to make like around 170 by >> with no state income tax in Texas.

>> Have you ever been to Texas?

>> Uh, just uh, you know, passing through,

not not really living there.

>> I would before you I mean, have you lived your whole life in California?

>> No, I moved around all over. Georgia, Florida. >> Oh, okay. Good, good, good, good. Okay, that's good. Because I was going to say part of moving is just new culture, just everything feels different. So I if you have the opportunity to spend more time in the place that you're thinking of moving, I would just to see do we like this place? Do we get a feel for it?

Maybe take a vacation to the area that

uh part of town where she might be working that you might be moving to and just see do do we like it here? Do we get a good vibe? Um, it seems like you have the money and the flexibility to do something like that and just get a sense of where it might be.

>> Um, what >> financially you can afford to do pretty much anything. You're not going to be spooked by, oh, the property taxes are higher. You guys can stomach anything financially. And I'm guessing it's actually going to lower your expenses while raising your income.

>> And so that part I'm not concerned about. It's more the lifestyle and quality of life. So I would go there, visit, look at the houses, look at where you would likely live and get a sense of what life would be like there. Are there kids in the mix?

>> Yeah, we got two kids. >> How old are they?

>> They're three and seven.

>> Okay. So, they're they're portable. They They're not locked in anywhere. What did you mean before when you said you're supporting your family, like extended family? >> My My parents uh my parents, they're they're older. Um they uh uh the house

that they live in is it's uh I pay for it. uh that basically just pay for their

living expenses until you know their uh social security kicks in. >> Okay. And do you foresee needing to be close by or is it literally you're just writing checks? >> Well, they they they they express uh that if we move they want to move with us. >> Okay. >> Not in the same house, but like you know they they probably going to sell their house and you know buy >> So now the whole family thing they're portable too.

>> Yeah. That's the thing. Like it's just it's so much >> that we have to deal with by moving, you know, uprooting the whole family there.

I just don't know if it's worth it. >> Your money is going to go so much further though in Texas.

>> That's why the company's moving out there. >> Yeah. So, >> Oh, yeah. >> Leaving in droves. >> Yeah.

>> I'm just wondering what is the alternative here? Let's say she takes the severance and then what?

>> Mhm. >> And then she just looks for a new >> find a job here. >> Mhm. Localist. >> Okay. Well, here's the truth. She could do that and you guys would also be fine.

>> There's no wrong answer. >> And so I would really rely on her own excitement because everyone can be moved and there's nothing that can't be reversed. Let's say she hates it with a burning undying passion and you guys all go, "This is terrible." Well, you could pack up and move back >> and Yeah, there's going to be a little cost and like emotionally it's going to be a little exhausting. You could go back to California 3 years from now and it'll still be there.

>> Just keep more expensive.

>> Yeah. Right. I mean, if you want to keep it with with your finances, I don't love the idea of being a long-term landlord, but if you're like, "Hey, let's try it out before we sell the house." >> You can you can pay cash for the house in Texas. Leave yours there and still be okay. >> And longterm, if Texas is it, sell the house in California.

>> Mhm. >> So, personally, I'm on team. Do the adventure. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because you can't do it later. the kids are in high school and now they're >> the fact that it's it's sorry talking over here but it can't be the fact that it's like 75 here while the rest of the country is freezing you know right now >> true that now that's why I said about visiting and maybe it's like when you go look at a house you see it in the sun in the sunlight but you also want to look at it on a rainy day you want to go to the neighborhood when it's dark outside you want to see it at its worst so if I were you I love George's idea of kind of doing a trial run go down there for a period of time first off just to even see and then if you're like maybe we do this.

Maybe she accepts the job. You guys go down there.

You keep the place in California. You keep the parents in California. >> Rent a sweet house in Texas for 6 months or a year. And that way it gives you some buying time instead of going, "Oh my gosh, we just got into this house." >> Yeah, I really like that idea.

So, if that doesn't if that doesn't fire you up, >> then that would kind of make me think maybe we don't want to do this because to be able to try something and not still not be like, "Ooh, >> well, I'd rather Here's my thing. I'd rather regret doing it and saying we tried than not doing it and her going, "Man, what would that have been like? I just stayed with the company. I have all of this, you know, built up in this company.

I get to move. I get this upgrade and pay.

>> Kids are very resilient. I would have before when I it sounded like he had been rooted in California for longer and I was like, "Oh man, this could be tough." But after he said he traveled around a lot, that does create kind of just a feeling of, oh, I can go anywhere. I can make friends. Like home is where the heart is.

But if you're a person who's lived in the same place for maybe 15 or 20 years, moving can actually be very tough cuz it's it's it's communities, it's creature comforts, all that stuff. >> Their level of net worth and income. I mean, they could charter a private jet to go visit California five times a year and still be okay. >> That's right.

They totally could. And living in Texas, like I said before, that money is going to like duplicate itself. Their the their cost of living is going to allow them to have way more for their money, which is definitely >> he can take the kids to California and wife can work for a week or two and he can just take the kids and take a little trip. >> I don't know.

She might be like, "Hello out there. >> You left me. >> Come back and get me." >> That's so fun. >> Oh gosh.

When Sam and I moved from South Florida here to Tennessee, it was like it's not easy. It's a It's a It's an adventure for sure. You have to have a spirit of adventure, which I think is a good thing because that's where opportunity is. Amen.

It's out there in the adventure, people. All right. Thanks for hanging out with us, George and I.

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## 241. When Unexpected Consequences Force You to Grow Up | January 29, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `OlZK9zVBG44` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlZK9zVBG44) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:47:21 |

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[music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author Jade Warshaw. >> [music] >> We're taking your calls at88255225.

Don't be scared. Pick up the phone, type in [music] those numbers, and join the conversation. Thomas kicks us off in Oregon. What's up, Thomas?

>> Are you with us? >> Uh, yes, I am here. Can you hear me?

>> Yes.

>> Um, hi. Um, my situation is rather

complex. Um my I'm a 24 year old um from

Oregon who's doing college, have two years left um for a business administration degree. My my girlfriend

is five weeks pregnant. I found out about it three three days ago. Um and to

be honest, we're both rather scared. Um I have no outstanding debts. Um I don't know if she has any outstanding debts, but I don't believe so. Um however, she is not in the best financial situation.

just overall because of living expenses and other things. >> Wow. >> Um >> well that's scary. Dude, you have a right to be rightfully spooked by all this. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you are the father.

>> Yes, I am the father. >> Okay. How long have you been together?

>> Um we've been together around a year. Um

we live we don't live together unfortunately. So, this is even more scary because we need to find a way to live, find a way to move together if we decide to have the child.

>> Okay. Um, let's let's roll back once one

one moment before we even think about that part. Do was this somebody that you plan to be with or >> is this something that's like, oh, dang, now I definitely feel like I am stuck.

>> This is someone that uh I was considering marrying. Um, her and I both

get along amazingly. We have never had a fight in the entire time we've ever been together. >> I mean, it's been 12 months, man. It's not like period and everything.

>> Okay. So, it was somebody that you were thinking about a future with.

>> Um, she is she's the one that I was thinking about having a future with. >> Okay. That that that is good because that way all of what I would hate is for you to just be thinking, "Oh, I got this girl pregnant. Now I'm stuck." and now I have to move in, now I have to get married and be forced into something that you never saw a future with that person, but it's good that you did see a future with her because now she's having your baby. Um, okay. So, you've got two

years left of college. What about her?

>> Um, she is currently out of she's not in

college and nor is employed. And that's I think the biggest scary thing for me is she's going to have to find a job. I have to I have to grow up really fast now. And I've never worked a full-time

job because I've just been so focused on school all my life.

>> So, you're 24. >> Really scary.

>> Yes. >> Did you take some gap years?

>> Um, there was one gap year, but it was a lot of jumping around unsure of what uh career I wanted to go into because of the fact that uh our world is changing so fast. >> Okay. Okay. So, why business administration?

>> Um, I chose business because my psychology was that it would be like just so generalized and so useful wherever I go that I could use it. Um,

and I chose it because of that reason.

>> Okay. So, what's on the other side of this? Let's say you do finish the degree. What kind of job are you looking for?

>> That's kind of the more difficult thing.

I personally am really interested in architecture and I was also interested in psychology. However, I've had family members push back against that and say, "No, you should be doing this or you should be doing that." >> Which is also why I've been so unsure.

>> Well, here's the truth. You might need to put a pause on education and just get to work doing anything.

>> Yes. >> And the truth is, you could probably make as much now as you would with a business administration degree on the other side. The degree could help you long term. But in the short term now we just got to stack cash and get ready for this new life of being a dad and you know does she have uh insurance? Is she covered through her parents?

>> I believe so. Yes. >> That would be one piece of homework to figure out is the medical side and then child care side. Yes, >> she's unemployed. She's going to need to get to work until she can no longer work and baby's about to be here to try to at least, you know, mitigate some of the financial damage here. And then is it is she going to just stay home with the baby >> and then are you going to be near her?

How close are you guys right now as far as distance?

>> I am around 3 hours.

>> Good. >> 3 hours. Oh gosh. Okay. So now I understand a little bit more what you were speaking about. Um is there since

she's kind of unattached in the way of school or work, is she able to come closer to where you are? Would she be willing to do that?

Um she's been currently working towards that. Um she has been trying to find a

way to move out. Um where she currently lives. Where does she live? Is she with the financial part?

>> Um she's living in a in a home with

other roommates is what she's living in.

>> How is she affording it?

Um, I think she it's I think it's very personal, but I think it's like something regarding she's a case manager and that kind of thing.

>> Okay. So, she's just getting government assistance. >> Yeah, she she Yeah, I I think so. She's getting quite a bit of assistance.

>> Okay. Okay. How old is she?

>> She's 21.

>> Does she have family nearby that you guys could move closer to to have some help? And would they be willing to help?

Have you had that conversation?

>> Um, her family is not very inner life.

My family, unfortunately, is six hours south of me.

>> Got it. Okay. So, thing number one on the list, I think, is you guys need to get together and you need to create a plan for you guys living near each

other, especially if you think the plan might be to get married. So, that's thing one. Thing two is verifying the whole insurance business because if she's estranged from her parents, maybe she's not. and if she's getting government assistance, there's a lot there. And then the third thing I would do is once you figure out the living situation, I would start I would find a

local church and I would start premarital counseling just to see if you

guys are a fit. Like if you could do a marriage together, if you could >> compatible. Yes, I understand.

>> Yeah. I I I would have a hard time saying get married immediately cuz I just I'm not hearing in your voice and

and even in your vicinity that that was

the plan per se. This I don't know if I'm right or wrong on that, but I don't want to just say to you go get married.

Does that make sense? >> Yeah. >> Given what you told us. >> And then what is your financial picture?

Do you have any savings right now? Do you have any debt?

Um, I have I have a large college fund that was set up by my family. Um, I I

come a rather from a rather privileged background. Um, my I believe my college

fund is technically it's owned by me.

Um, it's around like 50 to 70,000

maybe up to 90 at the most.

>> Okay. But >> what about other cash? >> Um, other cash not a lot unfortunately.

>> Okay. Well, you hey, you've got a a 9-month runway here. And so, I would heavily consider pausing school, moving closer together, and you getting to work full-time plus a side job, her taking on a full-time job until baby's close to being here. And then you just save up cash, and then we'll figure out the debt later.

But right now, you're in stor mode, stocking up cash, and figuring out the life plan. Then we'll figure out the financial plan. >> And don't do anything really crazy until the doctor says. A lot of times people don't even tell people that they're pregnant until like what around the 12 week mark.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music]

[music]

Sarah is in Washington. Up next, Sarah, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> I'm in a bit of an unusual position where my parents did uh well in life and

now at the end of their lives, my mom is facing some decisions with life insurance or an estate strategy plan.

>> Okay. >> Her team wants her to buy $500,000

a year in life insurance. And I'm trying

to convince her that there are better products available. >> Who encourages us? >> She's a short. >> She has a financial planning team.

>> Okay. How big is her estate? What is their net worth?

>> Probably about 60 million.

>> Okay.

Now, there are at this level there are,

you know, there's life insurance strategies that a lot of advisers use to protect the estate. So, I don't want to just go in going, "This is a ripoff.

They're trying to screw her over." That may not be the case here. Uh when we talk about life insurance, we're talking about, you know, whole life policies for the average everyday American when they're getting ripped off at 600 bucks a month. So when a when you have a $60 million estate, there are situations where paying a half a million a year to protect, you know, for a $20 million savings could be worth it.

>> So have you got any intel from the adviser >> or from your parents? >> A couple policies. Um, she has a 1.5

million whole life policy that's 100k a year and then two $10

million policies that are each um 100k a year and they

want her to buy an additional policy for an additional 300k a year.

>> Goodness gracious.

>> It just seems >> it feels like now they're just grabbing commissions left and right. And so >> Right. Right. >> That's where I go. This is this is not as black and white as it may seem, but if you are getting red flags, I would have the conversation with them. Are they willing to hear you out?

>> Yes. Um, but when they, for example, I'd like her to get rid of the whole life policy. Their argument is that in seven

years it pays for itself. So why would she not keep paying for a few more years

until it's paying for herself, paying for itself? I don't have a very good >> How does it pay for itself?

>> The paid up additions event essentially

uh get reinvested and then the investment inside the whole life policy pays the premiums.

>> Yikes. Well, that plan can implode pretty quickly with how high these premiums are and how awful the returns

are. And so I if I'm in your shoes, I would contact a a third party adviser on

your own and get their take.

And then at least you have some >> to go, "Hey, I talked to an adviser.

Here's what they said about this. Will you hear them out?" And maybe they go, "Yep, I understand what they're doing.

All good." Or they go, "No, here's what I think is happening and here's the tweaks to make." >> Okay, I've gone that route and that has given me some ammo to push back on her team. Um, but in a lot a lot of ways it feels like they're operating on her fear that she's not going to take good care of her heirs, which clearly she's going to. Yeah. Beyond anybody's wildest imaginations, it seems more like a Oh,

go ahead. >> I was going to say I would just look into I I'd be really interested in finding out what type of whole life policies those were. Um, there are some instances where if it's like a variable life, it could be something that is available to her. I don't know if this many policies would be it, but that's what I'd be looking into if I were you.

Um, they can be utilized by ultra wealthy people, folks who have no debt and have really, really high net worths, especially if they've just maxed out all of their other opportunities. So, I

would really go out into this with a spirit of curiosity versus these people

are trying to screw my mom. You might be right, but it also could just be something that's gone outside of your purview of knowledge.

Yeah, it definitely is well outside of my knowledge base. Um, and I just feel like I'm it's a one of the things I love about the Ramsay program is that the goal is to live like no one else. And now they're facing that. Hopefully Dave develops another segment where people can talk about these kinds of issues cuz we're hoping that lots and lots of people get to this place, right?

I know that's not the reality and it seems like a really weird problem to have, but >> it's not a Yeah. >> You know, I want to look out for my mom. >> Absolutely. you and and she's trying to steward this wealth as best as she can and using pros and experts to do it.

They're they're happily going to write giant checks uh which gives them big commissions. And so that's where I want to know are these bad apples or are they just doing something that is just an extremely expensive way to transfer the inheritance? And that's that's the big question mark because a state tax could be 40%. And so I understand that you don't want to pay 40% of 60 million when you pass away. I don't want to give the government any more than I already have.

>> Yeah. No, definitely. >> And so there are things like an irrevocable life insurance trust or eyelets they're called. Um where you know the trust owns the life insurance policy so the death benefit is not counted as part of your estate. So that's probably what they're trying to do >> is that when she passes there's millions and millions protected from the government which means less taxes to pay.

too powerful.

Yeah, absolutely. And you can contact Smartves Veester Pro on our website.

Just jump on to ramseyolutions.com and say, "Hey, I need a consultation. My mom's working with this adviser. Here's the kinds of things they've been telling her. Can you help me understand this more?" Number one, and then help me understand, is there a better way to do this?

And are they taking her to the cleaners or not? And uh our Smart Vster pros are they're going to have the heart of a teacher explain it to you and uh no BS. They're gonna they're going to just tell it to you like it is. Thanks for the call.

Malcolm is up next in North Carolina.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. How are you? >> I was uh calling in. I'm doing great. Uh I was calling in about a question that I had regarding um my income drastically

decreasing. Um I recently joined the

military which um has required my wife

almost to have to be a stay at home mom.

She can no longer really do her job as she was doing before. So, our income went from around uh I would say

$180,000ish down to $31,000.

>> Oh gosh. >> Um and >> yeah, >> why did you make that choice? Why did you guys make that series of choices?

>> I wanted to go into the military. My wife has always been very supportive of me and uh I recently sold a business so I kind of was a little lost. So, I didn't have anything to do uh kind of.

So, I've kind of always wanted to join the military. So, I took a leap and my wife uh joined it. We didn't necessarily think that well through it, I don't think. Uh but I'm in it now. And what was the luckily >> what's the end point? Was there like a point where you said, "Hey, our our income's going to go down for a small period of time and then XYZ is going to happen." Like what what's the end point?

So once I finish my training uh which is going to take about two years, I'll receive my reinlistment bonus which was my enlistment bonus which was about $45ish,000.

Uh my income should jump to around $100,000 uh in the military. Um and then

I also if I choose to reinlist, I believe our uh reinlistment category is around 90,000. So we did mention that um I just didn't realize how long the training would last before I started making um a better income. Um, and it

because we don't really we've been very fortunate uh financially, so we didn't necessarily I didn't really think about like our lifestyle changing um significantly. And

yeah. >> Are you going to be on base? Are you going to have base housing?

>> Yeah. So, we're going to they're going to be on base housing. She will be moving with me within the next month.

>> Okay. So, that helps. You're not going to have that expense. I mean, the way that you live on $31,000 is that you live on $31,000. So, you've got to get your head around what that means. And that's going to be a humongous hu

>> whatever your life was before is no longer. This new chapter is going to look like you're broke college students.

>> That's the in interesting name thing that we're having right now because we do have a decent amount in investments and savings, especially after selling the business. >> Okay, good. My wife is kind of wanting to live the same lifestyle uh recently.

The reason this popped

>> that's not an option basically.

>> Well, here's the thing. Here's what I want to tell you before we go to break.

Number one, if you have money in retirement, do not touch it. Do not move it. That money is locked in. [music] And if you have savings right now, how much savings do you have real quick?

>> So, we do the regular 3 to 6 months. So, currently we don't have that much.

>> And that's what that's there for. That's only there for emergencies. that is not there to uh skim off of every single

month to have the lifestyle you want.

[music] So, you guys made a very clear choice. Sounds like you didn't think through it very well, but like you said, you're here now. So, you've got to live that life and be thankful that you've got 3 to 6 months of expenses and a little money uh saved for retirement on down the line.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

Christian is up next in Fort Lauderdale.

>> [music] >> What's going on, Christian?

>> Hi, George. Hi, Jay. Thank you for taking my call. >> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> So, uh, my dad was recently, uh, had a

surgery that went bad. Um, he had three strokes during surgery. So, I now have power of attorney over him and I'm trying to sort out his finances. Um, I

just pulled a credit score and I discovered that he's $90,000 in credit card debt and obviously not working. Um, he's now just on workman's comp insurance. Um, so he has limited income

that uh he'll never be able to pay back the $90,000 in credit card debt. And I was calling to get some advice.

>> Man, >> I'm so sorry. That sounds horrible.

What's his what's his prognosis?

>> So, um, he had three strokes. He was blind about a week ago after the strokes, but he's currently able to see um, and talk, but not walk. Um, it looks

like he'll be in rehab for about three months minimum. Um, and then we'll see.

He's gotten much better in the past week, so we're we're hopeful.

>> Mhm. >> Um, but for now, he's going to be in the hospital for quite some time. >> Wow. How old is he?

>> 65. >> Okay. Does he have any other debts outside of the credit cards?

>> Well, I found about 86,000 in credit card debt and a $5,000 medical debt in collections along with a mortgage.

>> Okay. And is anyone living in that house right now?

No, it's an empty condo.

>> Okay. Is it paid? I mean, who who's paying the mortgage right now?

>> So, this just happened in the past week.

Um, I just took over his finances. So, I

will be paying the mortgage out of the money that he's making from workman's comp insurance. >> Okay. >> Um, >> that's enough to cover it. >> But that >> Yeah, it's enough to cover the mortgage.

And he's also laid on HOA fees. So, they're in the process of suing him. Um, but I was able to make a payment plan with them that they've agreed to.

>> Okay. >> The lawsuit and not >> and you're paying that payment plan out of your money.

>> Um, currently I have not made a single payment yet, but I'm intending on paying it out of his money. >> Okay. Does he have money? >> Account is current >> savings retirement.

>> No, he might have a 401k, but he has no

money. Um, his account's currently overdrawn by $50, but he has $5,000 a

month coming in from workman's comp insurance. >> Wow. >> So, um, what does he owe on the condo?

What's [laughter] it worth?

>> It's worth about 200 and he owes 204.

>> Oh, boy. Um, >> yeah. >> And what's the plan? What do you foresee the Is it just him? Is he married?

>> Um, not married. Okay. Single. Um, he

has a girlfriend overseas that he sends

money to, but >> Oh, boy. The extent of that.

>> Are you sure this is a real person, Christian? I've heard this story before.

>> Oh, well, unfortunately or fortunately, yeah, she she actually is real.

>> What's the plan when your dad uh gets out of rehabilitation? Is he do you foresee him going back to this Let me put it like this. Do you foresee him living alone or do you foresee a situation where you all have to take care of him out of your place?

>> No, I I foresee him living alone. The workman's comp insurance will stop of course once he's out of the hospital >> and my hope was that he would get some

form of settlement from workman's comp because he was injured on the job which led to this. >> Um, >> and surely he won't be able to go back.

I mean, I'm just assuming you tell me based on what you said, I can't see this guy going back to work in a couple weeks. I don't think so. Okay. I don't think he'll ever work again. >> Okay. Right. So, then there'd be some sort of payout.

>> Yeah, I would assume so. And then he'll start collecting social security at that time. I I would believe.

>> Okay. Do you think Do you know Do you have any idea what his social security would be at this point if he started to draw it now? [snorts] >> I don't know. I don't know.

>> Okay. That'd be some homework that I'd look into if I were you to know is he

going to go from 5,000 to 2500? What's

he going to go down to? Um, and then figuring out is he going to have the

ability to stay in this condo situation

and really think through what that means for him. Um, what's your financial situation?

>> I'm I'm single. I make great money. I run a company. I mean, I'm not a millionaire, but I make I make enough money to to live on my own and my family. >> And there's no world where he would move in with you where you would become his caretaker?

>> I sure hope not. >> Okay. So, you would, you know, it' be Medicare and try to get him care otherwise. >> Yes. >> So, your homework is to figure out his full expenses and then figure out does he have enough money monthly to pay for that sustainably? And if not, we need to make some really hard choices here and go, "Hey, you need to sell the condo maybe at a loss cuz otherwise it's going to get foreclosed on." >> Yeah. >> And he need is he still sending money overseas as we speak?

>> No, I' i've cut all >> Okay, good. >> expenses off 100%. He has enough money to make the payments that I've arranged for the HOA and pay the mortgage and the electric bill. >> Okay. Um, and my intention is to stop

paying all the credit cards except for American Express and the small local bank because I think they'll be the first ones to come after him. >> Listen, they could try to sue him, but he has nothing >> and it's unse. And so if he died with this, they just write it off. They're not coming after you. >> Nothing's going to h Yeah.

>> Literally, I mean, exactly what George said. They can't come after you. And honestly, even for him, he has nothing

to give. the only thing would have been that condo, but he's getting ready to sell it and there's no money that can come from it. So, in that way, he's sort of >> and they can't take his retirement. So, um I think at this point, it's just trying to minimize the future damage and make sure your four the four walls are covered for him and the debt is a far far away thing that we need to worry about.

>> Y >> you wouldn't you wouldn't file bankruptcy. You would just stop paying everything and then let them come after him. >> I would get current on everything you can. We don't want to in collections if we if we can avoid it.

But the credit cards, you might make minimum payments to keep them off your back if he can afford it out of his checks, but there's no way he's going to pay off 90k at this stage of life, >> right? Um, all the credit cards are current. The mortgage and the HOA are behind. >> That's and that's what we need to flip it.

>> Okay. >> So, that's your focus for him is making sure that we're current. We We're not behind. We're keeping up with the four walls and we'll let's see what income we can get from where and how long this workman's comp's going to last and then what the next steps are. But it's going to be a dayby-day thing. Man, this is a really difficult thing that you've been thrown into. Uh, and you're a good man and a good son for handling it.

>> And should I try to settle these debts with the credit card companies in a year when they inevitably come after him?

>> Well, if you stop paying now, the longer you wait, the more they're willing to settle. And so one year may not be long enough for them to go, "Yeah, we'll take 20 grand instead of 90." >> Eventually they will though. But the truth is he has zero money to give them.

So just let let it play out.

>> Okay? >> It's going to be the same. If you were to file bankruptcy, his credit's going to be completely decimated. It already is, I'm sure. And his days of

>> um you know, getting a great income and

and buying a property are it doesn't seem like that's going to be happening.

So for for him, like George said, four

walls, whatever transportation he might need is really going to be what he has.

>> Okay. >> Unfortunately, >> this is sad. >> Decades of compounded terrible financial decisions and then >> yes, >> you have the health situation on top of all of that which puts all of this just straight to a halt. >> And so there's there's nothing that you can do to undo the decades of bad decisions. All you can do is help him take the right next step and make sure that he's got food, shelter, utilities, and transportation. >> Yeah. What's What's his rent and HOA and everything like that cost every month?

>> Um the mortgage is 12250. The HOA is supposed to be 450, but I've arranged to pay 700 um because he's so far behind on

that. And then he's also about a year behind on alimony to my mom, which is

>> um you know, it is what it is. He doesn't have the money. Is there a >> understanding of that? But >> is there a living situation in his area that's less than $1,700 a month that you could get him into?

>> No. No chance

>> in South Florida. I don't think it would be possible. >> Yeah, you're right. >> And where are you? Look, are you in South Florida as well?

>> I'm in Fort Lauderdale. He's on the west coast of Florida. >> Okay. I'm just wondering, I mean, at this point, does he need to stay there?

Can he move somewhere that is more affordable?

I think he's best to stay there. He does have family there and I'm only 3 hours.

Um, one more question I had if if I have time. >> 5 seconds. >> Um, >> oh, okay. Well, I I wanted to know if I start working on these credit cards if I'm going to be liable for the debt.

>> No, it's not under your name.

>> So, it's not going to pass to you to deal with. So, don't if they try to scare you into it, say you got to pay, they're lying. That's not how the law works. If the debt's in his name, he's got to pay. If you co-signed or you're, you know, you're on that account, then they can come after you. But otherwise, you're safe, man. Best of luck.

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>> [music] >> Buying or selling your home is a big deal and you [music] want an expert in your corner fighting for you to find the best deal for the right price. And the Ramsay trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you can trust who will help make your home a blessing, not a burden. It's easy. You can compare agent profiles, interview them, and choose the right one to work with.

You can find a local Ramsey trusted real estate pro for free at ramseysolutions.com/agent or click the link in the description if you're on YouTube or podcast. Kayla is in Texas up next. Kayla, welcome to the show. >> Hi, how are you guys today?

>> We're doing great. What's your question today?

way is to utilize the remaining money that my husband and I will have after paying off our debt and putting um money

into an emergency fund. Um, we're about to receive $200,000 from a trust from my

grandparents. um we owe about 30,000 on

the car, so we were going to pay that off and then um put about 30,000 into an

emergency fund. And so we'll have about 140,000 left over. Um so we were wondering like should we put that all towards the house? Should we invest some of that? Um

a quick little add-on is we don't know that we want to stay in this house long term. Uh so we're just trying to figure out the the best way to move forward with that leftover money. Yeah. Well, you're you're speaking very wisely and you're filtering this through the baby steps, which is let's knock out the debt first. Let's make sure we have savings and then we can explore the options from there. Are you guys currently investing?

>> Um, yes. We're into our retirement. My husband is, he puts about 7% in my and

then his employer matches at 3 and a half%. I'm currently not, but my

employer does contribute 11%.

>> Okay. for me. >> So you guys would be in uh baby step 456. You already have a home. You have a mortgage. What's left on that?

>> 320. >> 320. All right. So is the trust

available now?

>> Uh no, it's going to do like the final paperwork. Um the rest of the beneficiaries are signing and then once all that paperwork is finished, then the money will be distributed. So that is expected in the next probably month to 6 weeks. >> Okay. And it is a lump sum. There's no restrictions, taxes, timelines. Like $200,000 will show up.

>> 200,000. Uh my uncle paid all of the

taxes um that were owed on it from like

the capital gains and the interest, you

know, taxes on the interest that was all paid already. So >> the 200,000 that I will be getting is what um is mine.

>> Wow. So tell us about a little bit about the home. You said that you're in this house, but you might not stay. tell us about what your plans are regarding possibly moving and when that would be.

>> Um my husband my husband's currently looking at other opportunities in in other states that we can move closer to where my father is. >> Uhhuh. >> Um and then to think the neighborhood um

just kind of going in a direction that we're not truly happy with. Okay.

>> So, um >> what's the timeline you might want to move?

um anywhere from I would say one to three years. You know, it just depends on like if I head forward to get a job in, you know, six months or you know, we a year we would we would move. Um

there's also some kind of changes going on to maybe turn the neighborhood back

around. Um but I [clears throat] don't know how long that would take to see >> okay >> if it starts moving in the opposite direction. Um, I'm also wondering, would

you be trying to keep the same level of

house? Would you be trying to move up in house if you were to move?

>> House is probably the same level anywhere. I'm I'm happy with with this with this house, you know. Um, it was about 340 when we purchased it.

>> So, you know, we're we're happy with with it. >> What's your household income?

um about 150,000. So we bring home about

868,700 uh after taxes and um deductions I think

with healthcare. >> Fantastic. >> Uh real quick, you said you bought the house for 340 and now you owe 320.

>> Yes. >> And you're worried about the neighborhood going down?

>> Yeah. I just it's

>> um >> I mean if I were in your shoes, if you if you really are talking about a year horizon, I'd probably be inclined to just keep it in a high yield savings account until you want it for a couple of reasons. Number one, >> if you piled it all into the house and just for some reason the house took a long time to sell or it for some reason went down in value, that might make you feel some type of way. Number two, moving is expensive and it's just nice to have cash on hand to make a move.

uh, if I were in your shoes specifically, if you were on a year horizon, I'd keep it in a high yield and wait for the right opportunity, and then when you move, place this house on the market, and you've got your down payment, um, that's readily available for you. >> Yeah, that's the nice part. If it's a short time horizon, that 140 becomes your down payment without needing to sell the house first. And so, that puts you in a better position as a buyer.

But if you're talking three years, put it into the house. It the money's not disappearing. It's just a forced savings plan and it stops you from using that money for other things that might not be as wise.

interest savings alone if you calculate now how much more is going to principal versus interest it would blow your mind.

>> Yeah we we did that it was I think upwards to like the six figure mark. So, >> we have no issue with putting it towards the house. We just weren't sure like >> with us potentially moving like should we hold off just for a little bit and then say, you know, if we haven't moved by the end of the year, then just dump it all into the house.

>> And you can enjoy some of it, too. There's nothing wrong going, hey, you're debtree with an emergency fund. Maybe use some of it for enjoyment and you go on a fun trip. >> I definitely like to hear you say that because I'm I'm definitely a a um

savor. >> Yeah. I think because you're paying off the debt, you're stocking up the emergency fund, it would be good to do something fun with some of this money as well. >> Not a huge amount, but you can take a, you know, $5,000 awesome trip and still have 135 left >> and you can give some of that and then you can save some of that.

And that includes paying down the house. that kind of fits in that category. And so I like this plan overall. I would just kind of keep it loose and put it in a high yield savings account when you have it and just park it at, you know, three and a half percent right now.

We're not trying to make a bunch of money off of this.

>> Awesome. And so would you would you guys think about at all like investing any of it into a mutual fund or >> I probably wouldn't because you are putting plenty of your paychecks aside.

And remember real estate is an investment too. So don't narrow your mind to think that just because it's not in the stock market, it's not it's not being invested. >> If you guys had the house paid off, I'd say absolutely. That's kind of a baby step seven item is to then invest outside of retirement.

And so you guys will get there, no doubt. You'll just use your future income to get there. And this trust is going to help you get rid of that house payment even faster. Then you can invest that amount.

So >> way to go. >> What a blessing. Awesome. Grandparents, >> yeah, that's awesome.

>> It is. It's fant fantastic. And I have one more question if I could. Sure.

So quick. >> We got a minute left. >> Okay. So the the emergency fund um does that count towards like the like maintenance of the house if something were to happen to it or is that just simply you know if one of us were to lose our job then we're recovered until the other person you know get gets another job?

If it's an emergency that if it can go towards household items that are emergencies.

So for instance, there's a storm and you didn't know it. It blew a tree onto your roof. Now you need roof d like roof repair. That would be an emergency.

>> Dishwasher randomly goes out. But if it's just maintenance, just set up a scing fund outside of that and just set it aside. I wouldn't put it with the emergency fund. it gets too convoluted and so you can just set aside, you know, 100 bucks a month, 200 bucks a month, whatever. You know, some people's homes are need a lot more work and more maintenance. So, >> buying new furniture, not an emergency.

>> Yeah, I would just put it in in every dollar. You can Here's what I do. I have a line item and you can mark it as a fund and that way I can save a h 100red bucks a month and at the end of the year I have 1,200 bucks earmarked for the maintenance and repairs on the house or the car or whatever it may be. And that helps me not get spooked when I'm like, "Oh my gosh, what are we going to do?

It's $1,000. You go, "No, we have it." >> I treat the emergency fund like I treat the HSA. >> I never touch it.

>> I will cash flow whatever I can to not touch these monies. >> Well, it's amazing. Once you're not broke anymore, you stop you kind of stop having emergencies. That's true.

>> It just becomes inconveniences that you can cash flow instead of, oh my gosh, what are we going to do? Yes. >> So, it's expensive to be broke. That's for sure. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Jade Warshaw and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Emily is up next in Nebraska. What's going on, Emily?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for taking my call. Um,

so I am a stay-at-home mom and I'm trying to get out of an abusive marriage. Um, an emotionally abusive marriage. My husband's basically abandoned us. I've got four small children.

um they're five years old and under and I'm trying to figure out how to create some margin uh hire a lawyer and I'm just trying to figure out what's the next best move to file bankruptcy or take out a second mortgage on the house or something else and I've got all my financial information written down if you want that.

>> Um my family all lives about 3 hours away and they're doing what they can to help me. Um, I live in kind of an unique area where there's not like I can't just sell the house and go rent. There's nothing for rent um near me and jobs are

uh few and far between. >> Is your house in your name?

>> Yes, it's solely in my name. Um, I bought it before we were married.

>> Okay. How long have you been married?

>> Um, since 2018.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

Um, right now I am I'm a disabled

veteran and I'm receiving um disability

benefits of about $2,600 a month.

>> Okay. And then is his income covering

any expenses for you guys or is he kind of cut off access?

>> He's I think he's rerouting his paycheck someplace else. He's a over the road truck driver. He's an owner operator. Um I've done his taxes forever. He'll gross about 225,000 from last year and I was only able to move over 29,000 to help pay household bills. Out of the last 13 months, I've paid um for the entirety of the bills 6

months out of the year. >> Wow. >> Okay. So, he just kind of up and left.

Is that >> He Well, being over the road, he's he's gone a lot, but um he's not called me since September. He's showed up at the house unannounced a couple of times uh for a few days at a time and it's just been weird. >> Like just to crash.

>> Yeah. Like over Thanksgiving and Christmas. Otherwise, he usually parks at a friend's house a couple of hours away. >> Oh gosh. >> I'm sorry that you're going through this. So >> Oh, thank you. >> Tell us more about So you've been covering the bills just out of your money. >> Correct. >> And is there any margin? Sorry, say it

again. Oh, I received a lump sum back payment from the VA a year ago.

>> How much was that?

>> Uh 42,000.

>> Okay. And what did you Has that allowed you to be current? What did that allow you to do? >> Um I was able to I put 6 months worth of

um bills in savings. You know, I I had a cushion of six months. >> Okay. Emergency fund.

>> Correct. And then I paid off some debt and um I started a business in May and that's actually been helping a lot.

>> Okay. So, how much debt do you have left? >> I owe uh 34,000 on the house um with

about 58,000 in equity. I've got uh

41,000 in student loans, 22,000 in

credit cards, and I owe 6,000 on my vehicle. >> Okay. And how much is in [clears throat] that emergency fund?

Um, I've got enough to to fund February.

>> How much is that?

>> Um, I'd have to look. I think it's down to 4,000 right now. >> So, you burn through the the emergency fund. So, you got 4,000 left to your name essentially.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. $58,000. $58,000 of equity.

41,000. Okay. Um, and tell me again, did I hear you say I wrote down a lot of numbers. Did I hear you say your income at this point is it 2600 a month? Is that what I heard you say?

>> 2,600 a month. And then my business, I just started it in May. So, um, the numbers have been different about every month, but right now I'm grossing about 1,600. >> Good.

>> And [clears throat] netting about 1,000 to,200. And I'm hoping that it it just continues to grow, especially as we get into the summer. >> Okay. So, fair enough.

Like around 3,600 is what maybe you could count on per month. >> Do you have your own bank account that is not at the same bank your husband has? >> I do. Yes.

>> Okay, good.

>> That's correct. >> Good. What do you pay? What's the mortgage every month? What do you pay?

>> Uh $933.

>> Good. Good. Okay. So, tell us right now what's on fire besides your marriage financially. What's the thing that you're like, "Help me understand this." Jaden and George.

>> Um I don't know how to pay bills after

February and um I need to hire an attorney.

>> Okay. So, I think that you can pay the

bills after February. Tell us where how much the deficit is when you take your 3,600, you pay the 900 in the mortgage, you pay your debts. Is there you pay for food and transportation? Is there anything left?

>> Um, I've got life insurance payments and then um oh jeez, what else? Oh, electricity and propane and normal stuff. So, it's usually about my budget's about4500 to

5,000. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, and that's in every dollar.

>> Um, I I'm using You need a budget at the moment. >> Okay. I want you to pop into Every Dollar because Every Dollar is going to help you find margin anywhere possible.

You'll be able to tell it about your specific situation and it's going to work overtime to find you money anywhere. Um, so right now you're $1,000 deficit every single month. So, that's why this is dwindling. uh so quickly I can see but there's also a path to get your income up right >> with the business >> yes it it's been very slow um I mean it

keeps changing but I I see it being capped at some point with the market becoming saturated >> okay so what I don't think you should do and I don't think that you need to sell your house right right away I think you're actually you're paying a little less than 900 bucks a month I think I heard you say uh you're in a good equity position with it. You don't owe a ton on it. I don't think you're going to find anywhere cheaper to live uh for a family of five. Do you do you agree or disagree?

>> I I completely agree. >> Okay. Uh what I would do is change the locks once you file for a divorce. I would change the lock so that he's not just coming up in there willy-nilly, >> right?

>> Okay. Um and then is there anybody in your community who can set you up with a good attorney or who could recommend a good attorney?

I've been told that I live too far away.

Um >> they the attorneys don't want to drive to the courthouse in my location if they

had to. >> Got it. >> Okay, understood. >> And are all the debts in your name solely or is anything joint or is anything in his name solely?

>> The ones that I named are either in my name or are joint. He's got his own mess. Um he's been opening up credit cards uh for the last two years and um

he's got >> Have you frozen your credit yet? Because my fear is he's opening debts in your name. >> I have frozen it and I check on it.

>> Okay. >> Well, here's the truth. The faster we get through this process of divorce, the faster we can hope for some alimony and child support, which means you can breathe again and that'll get you to fight another day and hopefully clean up some of these debts.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't try to pay anything off just yet. I wouldn't try to sell your house or anything like that just yet because once this goes to court, who knows how this is going to get split, including the house, unfortunately.

I'm not sure what the the laws are in your area. He's been living there since 2018, so I'm not sure if any of that will be up for grabs. But yeah, change the locks, freeze the credit, and file for divorce and figure out how to pay for it because you got to divorce this guy. >> Great.

>> I can't imagine.

This fact that this guy's not even covering the expenses for his own children and just abandon the family just breaks my heart. And u I know you'll get through it. You're you're a survivor and a warrior, but it's going to be a process to get to the other side of this and see some light. >> Yeah.

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[music]

Sarah is up next in New Jersey. [music] Sarah, what's going on?

>> Hi there. How are you >> doing? Great. What's your question today?

So, I am trying to figure out how much I

need for retirement. Um, I see where I'm

trending right now in terms of my retirement progress, but I feel like it's falling short of what I'll probably need. >> Okay. >> And so, I'm struggling to figure out like what I should aim for. I know I I watched a segment where someone was at 3.5 million. I don't know if that's accurate or where it should be. Um, and what I would need to adjust to get there. >> Okay.

Well, usually when we think about retiring, I'll tell you what's in my head. I'm thinking about my entire nest egg and I'm thinking based on my annualized rate of return, which is about 10%, can I live off of 10% of my income, and can it feel like the lifestyle I have now or better? Does that make sense?

>> Yes. >> What do you currently have invested?

Um, so I have uh let me see in terms of

my 401k um I have about $146,000.

>> Okay. >> Um and then I have a a brokerage account

with like a couple of EFTs which is about $7,000.

>> Mh. >> Um I have a separate Roth IRA which I just opened up that has $1,000.

Um and then the the other money that I

have is just um it's an emergency emergency fund. Okay. Do you have any debt?

>> Uh, I have student loan debt. So, I have a student loan that it's in um it's in

forbbearance, but I every other month I make a $1,000 payment towards that.

>> Okay. What's left on the balance?

>> Um 130,000.

>> And what's your income?

>> It's 210.

>> Good income. Is that just you?

>> Yes. >> There you go. >> All right. So, how much are you currently investing?

Um, so currently I invest via my my

paycheck and so about 600 goes into my

401k every paycheck and then my employer matches that. >> What's the match?

>> Uh 7%. >> Good. Okay. So if you follow through

>> I have $300 that I was putting into um I

was putting into like Capital which is like a money saving app. I was, you know, like $300 every paycheck, but I just recently moved that into the the an EFT to start putting that into there.

>> Okay. And why are you investing outside of the retirement right now into those ETFs, I imagine, is what you were saying, >> you know, I don't know. [laughter] >> Okay.

Try to do something.

And so, and then also the other thing too is that does it make sense to max out the 401k? I think I've done it in the past and the thing that I'm kind of most worried about is, you know, what are the the taxes going to look like and so if I can find some other place to do it where the taxes might not be as much and just just trying.

>> So, can we let let George and I tell you what we would do and as we're doing it telling you that, you tell us your objection so we can help you get past it. Would that be all right?

>> So, I'm looking at what you're doing and I I hear what you're saying. It sounds like you're just doing everything you can to feel like you're doing something, but I would argue that you're doing too much and because of it, you're not making the progress that you want to make. Um, the way I would do it, Sarah,

is I would focus on clearing out these student loans first so you can have the fullness of your income and so that these things don't follow you into retirement. Cuz what a pain in the butt to still be paying off student loans when you're retiring, right? You're not even working anymore. you're not even using the education anymore at that point.

So, I would really focus on that and that's going to require a mental shift. That's why I asked go ahead and tell us your [laughter] uh what what your reservations are, but let me play out the plan first. So, you pay off the student loans.

into retirement every single month.

That's a lot of money.

>> And if you did that, let's just pretend, I know that you've got the student loans to pay off, but just let's say you did that for 20 years at the rate that you have now, I mean, you're going to be over $3 million at that point.

>> Okay? >> So, if we can kind of reverse engineer that to make that happen, it's going to start with Yeah. We got to have the student loans paid off. We've got to have some form of cushion between you and life, some sort of emergency fund.

That way, we can invest and not worrying about have to having to pull it out for emergencies again, right? And now we've

created kind of the sustainability. I mean, think about it. Making $210,000 a

year with just you, how quickly could you pay off the student loan? >> I do have I do have a a toddler. I'm sorry. I meant that I was unmarried, but I do have a toddler. You have a toddler. It's only my income. It is only my income. >> Well, great. you and your toddler $210,000 a year. How quickly, if you really got intense, because I think mentally you are intense about being prepared for the future. How quickly could you pay off that debt?

>> Feel like I could probably pay it off in in a few years. >> Ding, ding, ding. Two years. So, here's the math on 130 grand. 24 months. You're talking $5,400 a month, not a,000 every

other month. We are going hard in the paint at this debt. And here's what that does. 24 months from now, you're 50 years old, right? Yes.

>> And you've paused investing for those two years, all investing, which scares you. But here's the truth. Now you have freed up so much of your income and focus and energy. Now from 50 to 65, let's say you invest that 2625. That's 15% of your income every month. Like you're you're going to have $1.8 million sitting in there in that one account.

>> Okay? >> And that's at 65. If you want to keep working, you know, you ride this out till 67, you got 2.2 million. And like Jade said, you continue this down the path, you'll have more and more. And so retirement is not an age, it's a financial number. And so we don't just get to retire because, well, we're 65, it's time. A lot of people get there and go, I don't have enough to cover the expenses. And getting into retirement debtree is your best bet at reducing the amount you need in retirement.

The other the only other thing too is that I've I've also been looking to purchase a home.

>> Um because I've been renting um and so

trying to factor, you know, I don't want to delay purchasing a home because I'm finally in in I think a good financial position to do that, but I don't know how that factors into, you know, kind of increasing what I'd be um contributing to the the the student loans at this time. Well, I do love the idea of having

um that line item on your budget set once you're in retirement. I I would hate for you to be renting then. So, at that point, the order of the order of steps would be still focusing on getting the debt cleared out first cuz again, we don't want debt, especially that sort of debt following us into retirement. Then next, yeah, you still need some sort of emergency fund, some sort of cash cash position to keep you between, you know, a barrier between you and life.

Then from there, yeah, now you could start to do both at the same time. You could start investing 15% and start putting aside for a down payment.

rather than put off investing um any

more years in order to save up for the down payment faster. I would try to do them at the same time. >> So, you're investing 15% into retirement and then any money above that goes into a savings account for that down payment.

Even though that might make it go a little slower than you want, you're going to want the years. You're going to want that time uh of compound interest growing for you and your retirement accounts.

>> Okay, I think that sounds solid.

>> You got a lot of great goals. It's just we just got to get focused one thing at a time and you'll clean this mess up fast and making if you keep making $210,000, I have no fear that your life is going to look very different a decade from now. >> Yeah. Is your income going up anytime soon?

Uh, I hope so.

>> Good. I would plan for it to go up, right? Why would it go down at this point? You're kind of at going into your highest earning potential years. So, you're a lot of people in their 50s earn their highest amount. So, really, really good. >> I'm proud of you, Sarah. >> Yeah. And I think that's been on tack. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

>> So, it's time to ratchet up those student loan payments cuz here's the truth. 130 grand at, you know, 6 or 7%

interest, you're probably the balance is moving upward. Even as you're making a $1,000 payment every other month, you might be acrewing over a thousand in interest every other month. >> Absolutely. >> So, you really got to get ahead of it.

And that means throwing huge chunks of money. And we get those calls where people go, "Hey, I owed 80 and now I owe a hundred because it was in forbearance and I didn't understand what it meant. I just thought they were helping me out. Now I have an even bigger mountain to climb." >> Yeah.

For some reason, student loans rest differently in people's minds. If you had $120,000 of debt and it was credit cards, cars, all these other things, you think, "Oh my gosh, I have to get a hold of this." But for some reason, when it's just one block of student loans, people tend to push it aside and forget about it. >> Well, society told us it's an investment in your future. And yet, you can't bankrupt on the thing.

>> [music]

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Today's question comes from Shannon in Florida. It's the Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it's time for a plan. Yi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment so you can get back on the baby steps and start making progress. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey to learn more. That's the letter y refy.com/ramsey may not be available in all states.

>> Okie dokie. Today's question comes from Shannon in Florida. She says, "What's your opinion on how much to help kids financially after they get married? My son and his fiance are getting married this summer. They're in their early 20s and have a young daughter. They are both in college pursuing degrees. Our plan is for them to live in our basement for free until they graduate and start working full-time. I plan on continuing to pay for my son's college and provide help uh to his wife as well after they

get married. I'm getting mixed opinions about whether I'm hap helping or hurting them by supporting them after they're married. Even if he's married, he's still my son. And I think it's my responsibility to help both of them get through college debtree if I'm able to.

Friends and family say they need to be independent once they're married, even if that means going into debt to finish college and pay rent so they can live independently. Uh what are your thoughts? So, it sounds like uh they

started a little earlier than most as far as having children and because of

that it's kind of set a course of events

into into action a little earlier than maybe planned. Um, so I'm with you,

Shannon, on the education part. I think that if it was your plan to pay for college, especially for your son, and he's still willing to go, I think it's great if you're still willing to pay for um college. Now, did it did I read you say that you were paying for hers, too? I think you're just supporting her.

Um, I'm fine with you paying for college. I think that's great. Now, the living in the basement until they graduate and start working full-time.

a kid, I think that is okay. There has

to be clear guard rails and time frames

on this. It can't just be, oh, live in the basement and I'm supporting you financially until you're ready. And the the part of you being ready is just kind of like this vague ambiguous.

>> Yeah. They're probably not leaving at that point. if mom's still folding my laundry and covering all the bills. So there there is that that word independent is the key here.

If they are >> what does that mean? >> If they are codependent and now you're enabling the codependence, that's on you. And so we need to make sure that number one, we're not artificially propping up their life. If this was a marathon, you don't want to be carrying them over the finish line.

Now, if they're running and they're doing a great job and they've trained, it's okay to give them a little boost.

It's okay to help them financially after they get married. I think that's awesome. If you want to pay for the wedding and you want to help them with a down payment and give them some money for that, that's great. But only if they're already employed and working hard and able to take care of the bills on their own. >> Yeah. I think they should be paying you.

I think you need to sit down and have something very clear here as far as what are they going to pay you in rent because if they're just living for free, that's not going to help them when it does come time for them to go into the world and try to get and and try to lease a place. they're going to need to show some form of history of paying

rent. And so that's good. Even if it's 500 bucks, come up with something so they have some skin in the game. Also, set very clearly how long is this agreement going to last? If he's out of college in uh you know, 2 years, is that

the cut off point? Um is it 2 years and 6 months? Like be very specific. What are the parameters while they're there?

Must both of them have at least part-time jobs. Must they be paying a certain amount of rent? Right? make that so so clear. Um so that there's no question and when the time comes for them to, you know, leave the nest, they're not thinking that you're kicking them out. They're going, "Oh yeah, this is exactly what we decided." So whatever you set, make sure you're talking about about it early and often. And make sure that um you don't get caught up in this

as the rescuer and their drama triangle.

>> If you've never Googled the drama triangle, you should. triangulation.

Yes. >> All right. Good question, Shannon. Frank is in Boise up next on the line. What's going on, Frank?

>> Hi. Um, I have a question to ask you.

I've been talking to a financial advisor here at Boisey. Recommended from you guys and I have um three 401ks

because my um the contractor I work

under, they keep changing companies, so it changes to a new 401k and they're pretty small. Um, so I think the three

[clears throat] they total around $73,000.

>> Okay. >> I want to know what to do. Should I roll them into the new 401k by this April, this month, or should I roll them into a personal IRA, which the financial advisor recommends that and I brought them up, you know, about the large cap, midcap, small cap, and international companies that they ran Ramsay recommends.

but I'm 57 years old and they said they need to make a portfolio for me just for

me because of my age that they would do

it differently or something like that.

>> Yeah, I'm guessing they're saying, "Hey, you need to start including some bonds and sort of tone down the the aggressive investing as you get closer to retirement, which is normal in the financial planning world." Uh you'll hear that a lot.

>> So that is okay to do that. So I don't need to be doing large cap, midcap, small cap, or international companies exactly like that. >> We still adise a little bit more. Dave Ramsey is a big fan of just keeping it 100% equities and letting it ride.

Uh because over the long haul, I mean, you could live to be 97 and so you're talking you're still got 40 years of that money sitting there. And so there just going to be a little bit of a drag when it comes to the bonds starting to enter the picture with much lower returns, but also less volatility. And so it's a really personal decision for you and you're, you know, you can talk with your advisor on what they recommend for your situation. We don't have all the facts on what your expenses are and what the nest egg is going to be.

And so you never should touch the money and you want to keep it in kind. So, if it's traditional 401k, you want to move it to a traditional 401k or traditional IRA, uh, instead of Roth because that'll trigger a whole, you know, host of penalties and taxes there. So, uh, that's what I would do. There's nothing if you have a strong 401k, you can just roll it all into there.

My guess is the adviser is saying, "Hey, if you roll into the IRA, he can help manage it." Uh, they don't have access to help manage your 401k.

Um I he said there's more um there's

more u mutual funds in a IRA than versus a 401k. >> Yeah, you might have 20 options with your work 401k. An IRA, the world is your oyster. You have access to everything. So there are some there's some pros and and cons there. And so you do you do your own due diligence there.

You're still steering the ship when it comes to investing and you do whatever you think is best for your situation.

But there's really there's nothing wrong with doing either. And so don't overthink it. >> Gotcha. Okay. Then he says a 1.5%

of advisory fee and I guess that off of

73,000. That's about $95 a month. Is that correct? Yes. >> If I'm doing something wrong. >> Yeah, that's that's normal in the financial planning world. There's something called AUM, assets under management, and that's basically how they make their living is managing these portfolios. And one to one and a half% is uh is normal in that world. And so you're talking 73,000 if it just sits there. Um, and you've got, you know, you're right, $1,95 a year divided by 12. And so, you know, that's that's the

price you pay for making sure that someone is managing it for you and you have access to them advice all year long, all of that. And so, you really want to make sure your adviser is looking at a holistic picture, not just a fund picker. And so, I would be utilizing them for way more than just helping you do this rollover.

>> Okay, I got you. So, what you saying you recommended? I mean, if >> if this guy, he's telling me, "Yeah, do this. Do this." And >> if I were in your if I were in your shoes and I looked at my current 401k that's being offered and I really liked the funds and they were growing at a rate of return, that's what you know

what what it should be. Uh, you might say, "Okay, I'll just roll them over to the new company 401k." But if you're looking at the options and you're going, "Hey, like based on what I'm seeing, this is really not performing well. I need access to the full market, then that totally makes sense to roll them over and let somebody help you pick some better funds. >> And sometimes the 401k has uh fees as well, so you want to look at that and see what that's costing you inside of the account.

So, a lot of homework and research to do. And it never hurts to have the pro look it over. But again, you're in the driver's seat. And so, if you're like, "Hey, no, I don't want to give it all to the IRA and have you manage it," that's your that's your decision to make.

But, uh, I'm proud of you for taking that step. Just don't let the money sit there. You want to move it and have it working for you, invested, and not just sitting.

[music]

>> [music]

[music] >> You asked and we listened. Guys, the Live Like No one Else cruise is back by popular demand. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave Ramsey, all of us Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean. You can share your story with Dave, swap jokes with me, sing karaoke with Jade. I hope that's happening. >> Um >> although I want to sing next to you cuz that's that's a lot of pressure. >> I know, but I always put on like my fake voice. The love bow. I don't do my real

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Tom is in LA up next. What's going on, Tom? >> Hey, how you guys doing? >> Great. What's your question?

>> I Yeah, I was just calling in. I'm a PhD

student over here and my wife recently

lost her job back in like July and I'm

just wondering and looking to get some advice on how best to get through this stage of my career and money situation

whether that is pushing harder and just getting out as quickly as possible um yeah or trying to work extra jobs. So

for some advice on that, >> what money is coming in with you doing your PhD?

>> So with being at UCLA, we have like a full stipend. It's about three grand. So

in LA, it covers about housing costs and

a little bit of food. Um but beyond that, before I had worked a full-time

job um as a engineer and saved up enough

money where I haven't had to cover anything. So, I have like this little nest egg that's just dwindling down, but

it's >> there's about 24,000.

>> Okay. And you've been basically using that to float the gap for the last 6 months. >> What did your wife do?

>> So, she was a like IT trainer over at

UCLA. >> Okay. And so, it's been since July. Has she gotten any bites? What's what's what's up with that, do you think?

>> So, she's gotten a few bites um in the tech center. has just been really quiet for the past few months. And then she recently started working with some family members on starting up moving a business that's they've started over in Mexico over here. Um and so she's going

hard on that.

>> Not paid yet. And so they're just starting it. So I'm hoping that >> will she be paid when this is moved or how does this work? Cuz I wouldn't. We're not doing volunteer work right now. >> Yeah. Um, I think once it gets moved, it

would be paid. I'm just not sure about I've been trying to get like a good timeline, but it's very ethereal at this

point in time where >> has she looked at just other fields in the IT world that she would be qualified for? >> Yeah. So, she's been applying around.

Um, I think that she's just very much

kind of also chasing a bit of a dream of

this job and this kind of like entrepreneurial spirit and I want to appreciate that. And also love that cuz also I'm kind of doing that and I'm like >> yeah there's going to be seasons where it's it's Tom's turn and he's chasing this PhD and I'm hoping this PhD is going to turn into a big pay raise on the other side. What's the goal with the PhD? >> So I'm studying bioengineering. So the goal is to hopefully yes have a a big pay raise and be working for one of the

big biotech firms like Neuralink stuff, things along those lines. We're talking high six figure salary once we're done with this. So when is the PhD done and how soon would you be working after that? >> Yeah. So that's one of the decisions is I can hopefully be done by early fall

next year if I really push hard. But the

other idea is if I need to float is if I

take some extra time and work like as a tutor and take an extra year but float

expenses. So fall of 27 or tutor and

then it's fall of 28. 2008 28. Oh boy.

So okay. Yeah. Let's go let's go back to

the wife then because you were kind of on this path. I think you have to see it through at this point. Um I think for your wife, she's got to it it's one thing if you want to do a business venture, but you need to have solid a solid business plan. something that she can look at and then be able to say to you, here's what's going to happen and we should be profitable by this date and when we're profitable, this is the salary I should be able to draw.

we were going to be profitable by this date. We're not. So now therefore, we're not going to continue on with this. And if she can't provide that, then that means there is no meat on these bones.

It's just an experiment. And you guys are not in a time of life just yet where she can totally experiment because you're going to look up and this 24,000 is going to be gone. What's your burn rate every month?

>> Burn rate is about 2,000 a month.

>> Oh yeah. You're going to look up and be like in two years this money is going to be gone. Which [sighs]

two years is not bad. I mean that's you being you'll be graduated by then.

>> Do you guys have debt? [snorts] >> Um so we do have some debt. just one car loan and then um her student loans which

are about together is about 20,000.

>> Okay, that's total with the car loan.

>> Uh I think what's left on the car loan it might be closer to 25 or 30 but

definitely below 30 or above.

>> Do you guys have kids?

>> No kids. >> Okay. So what has she been doing for 6 months? cuz I I'd rather her do something even if it's not in the IT field just to provide some income and some purpose and and meaning every day to go out there and do something cuz it's easy to fall into a low-grade depression just sitting around going I was laid off.

I can't find a job and you start to question your your identity and selfworth. >> Yeah. Just to just to earn the burn rate. Like she could experiment but she got to at least bring in the the couple thousand.

>> And she's too qualified and talented just to be sitting on the sidelines for seven months now. Yeah, that's what I try to I've been trying to be encouraging as much as possible I think is just very disheartening for her. The current situation of applying and getting rejected um and just feeling that she isn't as talented as I know she is. So >> that's your job.

future but right now we are in a season where we both need side jobs at night

delivering Uber Eats and Door Dash >> that's the reality cuz we can't burn through the savings and then be going into debt every month living in LA. It's an expensive life as you know.

>> Yeah. A piece of homework you guys can do tonight that will feel proactive is if you can both sit down tonight and make a list of everyone you know that

might know someone in her space that

could be hiring, right? That could put in a word for her. We'll make sure that she has Kim Coleman's um career materials so that she can really focus in and figure out how to do that the right way. But just reaching out to your network cuz chances are there's somebody that's in your network that holds the key to her next job.

>> Okay. Yeah, that'd be very good, >> right? Yeah. Try to make a list of 10 names.

>> She has to create some inertia here cuz, you know, an object of rest stays at rest. And so, it's hard to even have the self-confidence to have the meeting or do the interview when you feel like, "Oh my gosh, here we go again." It's like dating. You're like, "Well, I've had 19 bad dates. What's the point?

Love isn't real." It's easy to fall into that hole if you're not careful. Uh but you know, this again, this is a season you guys will have an amazing trajectory in the future. And right now, you're going to look back at this time and go, remember when we both had to do door dash on the side just to make ends meet? That was crazy.

>> Yes. This is a very short period of of time that most of us go through where it's just you're just broke.

>> Not not so much cuz you've made a bunch of mistakes. You're just young and getting started. >> But you stack on high cost of living on top of that. I mean, it's impressive that they've even made it work on what they're bringing in every month. Even with the savings and the stip, >> that's still a tough life. So, the reality is we got to live like we're broke college students, which means [music] we can't eat out. We are getting the discount groceries and stretching it and meal prepping. It is just rice,

chicken, broccoli. Stack them. Go.

That's what we're eating every single day for a year.

>> You'll survive. No one's died from doing that as [music] far as I know. It ain't pretty.

[music]

[snorts]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union [music] studio.

I'm George Camel here with Jade Warshaw taking your calls at88255225.

Riker is up next in Utah. Riker, what's

going on? >> Hi, how are you? >> Great. How can Jade and I help?

>> So, I'm wondering on how to build a

budget with such an inconsistent income

that me and my future wife are going to have once we combine finances.

What do you do that's so inconsistent?

>> So, my fiance is a hair stylist and so

it just depends on what client she can get for her income. And then my family

owns a fencing business and a ranching business. And um during the summer I can

make upwards to $10,000 a month, but during the winter during ranching I'm making zero. >> Okay. And what about her? What's her

swing of income, good to bad >> right now? Right now, she just started three months ago and she's making about

from 1,500 a month to about 2,300 a

month. >> Okay. Okay. So, maybe say 18 is a right

there in the middle. Okay. So, >> yeah, >> the way I would do this, when are you guys getting married, by the way? When does this actually start? June 20th.

>> Okay, good.

>> Uh, so what I would do by then, by June, you're going to kind of see what her averages are. Hopefully, they continue to go up, but you really want to plan your budget wor based on your worst month. That's what I would do is I would say, okay, first off, how much does it take for us to even like what's our barebones budget? What does it take for us to operate? Keeping the lights on, keeping food on the table, four walls, keeping our insurance, whatever that is.

And then on our worst month, how far away from that amount are we? So, you're

kind of filling in the unknowns there.

>> And then from there, I would kind of stock up and say, "Okay, let's pretend we find out it takes $3,000 for our household to run and we bring in on our

worst month 3,200." Well, that's great.

That means there's a little bit of margin there. But it also means that you might want to keep an account, take that $200 and over time stock up an extra

month's worth of savings that's kind of there >> to float you in the rough months. We call it kind of a peaks and valleys fund. So when you have a really great month, that's the peak. Well, we don't need all of that to cover the expenses. So let's move it over to a savings account so that when you have that $0 month, you can get by and not feel like, oh my gosh, what are we doing?

>> And it's not your emergency fund. So don't get it confused. It's It's completely separate from an emergency fund. >> The real question is what are you doing all winter long?

>> So I I do ranch with my dad all winter.

I work probably six hours a day all winter, >> but for free. >> I don't get paid.

>> Yeah. I don't So I don't get paid for the work.

I I own cows in our herd. I and I sell

bulls and I sell beef, but instead of me

getting paid hourly, I work off like

feed and hay. So I don't have to pay my

dad back for hay. And I just get the money from the animals instead of having

to pay hand back for all the seed and all the hay. >> So what are the zero what are the zero sum months? >> I don't do farm math, so I need to help help me understand this. Which months do you on paper earn zero and which months on paper do you earn the 10,000?

>> So I can So in about from April to

November I can earn 10,000 and then

in we sell bulls in April and that's

when I can make money off the ranch. But

in between, so like

like mid December to when we start

fencing in April, I'm not making any money. But I'm getting ranch money during the summer when I'm working full-time as well. >> So really, if you spread it out over 12 months, you're making six $65,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> So that's not bad. It's almost like a teacher. You just have to account for the summer months.

>> Yeah. >> For you it's the winter.

Yeah. >> Can you go do something part-time or even full-time from January through April that actually pays?

>> Um, I could. We live in a really remote

part of Utah. There's only

400 people in my town and the nearest

town, like we have to drive an hour to go get groceries.

>> Not a lot of side hustles out there.

Well, do any other places around you need help?

>> I'm guessing those other people are a lot of farming. Is that a kind of a farming town?

>> Yeah. So I Yeah, I could go and pick up

a ranchand job somewhere just right here locally. >> Yeah, it seems like >> help a little bit in the winter months. >> It seems like in a town I think you just have to put your thinking cap on and think outside the box because it feels like in a town that small there's got to be needs that people have because there's it's pretty remote. You can't get to the things you want.

So, I just spend some time brainstorming what is it that during the summer months or I'm sorry during the winter months I would need help with that it would be nice to have that service and maybe it's a service that you can provide um for the folks who live around you during those months.

>> Yeah. >> Is your fiance in the same town?

>> Yeah, we live together. >> Okay. Well, she's got enough hair appointments with a town of 400 to make this work.

>> So, she drives an hour to go to work.

Goodness gracious. Every day? An hour each way? >> Yeah. >> Oh gosh. >> Yeah. An hour. An hour each way. And she's working Monday through Saturday.

>> Dude, she just set the bar. Riker, sounds like you're driving an hour into town for your side hustle.

>> Yep. >> You hop in with her and you go do something nearby.

>> You drop her off and you go door dash.

>> Quality time. >> So that's the key. If you want stable income to make this less stressful, go create some stable income during those months. Otherwise, you do the peaks and valleys side where you go, hey, I made 10 grand. We only need five. I'm going to sock away five over here, knowing we might need to float some expenses in the down months. >> You're doing good. I mean, you're making 80,000 a year, which is pretty sweet.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> For small town rural living. I hope you have low expenses.

>> Yeah, we're only we have to spend about 2500 a month.

>> That's not bad. So, when I'm only 18 and

when I'm able to, I'm hoping to get my CDL. And during the winter, I was going to snowplow drive.

>> Hey, there we go. >> I love it. There you go. That's a great idea. >> Can you start a Christmas tree farm, too? I've seen that in every Hallmark movie ever. >> I We probably should to be honest with you. >> I like this. >> I'd get creative. You guys are young.

You can you can sort of take those risks right now, quote unquote. Obviously doing this all with cash. Are you guys completely debtree, both of you?

Yeah, we're completely debtree. We own our both of our vehicles and we're paying a thousand bucks a month in rent

literally.

>> And then just food is the only other >> This bodess well cuz that really if you have inconsistent income, you really got to be debtree and have that emergency fund because life is already a little bit stressful when you don't know what's going to come in. And so I'm proud of you for uh for being a really hard worker at 18. I think this bodess well for your future together and uh I wish you guys the best. Yeah, knowing what I know about your income, if I were you, every time I got 10,000, I'd keep 6,000 and put the rest away.

get something off the ground and and roll it and just tell yourself that you make $6,000 a month instead of 10.

>> I learned a lot on that call. This was like Settlers of Katan. He was like, I'll trade you a hay for a brick, Dad.

I'm like, all right. Hey, whatever kind of arrangement [laughter] you guys have, you figure it out. >> Whoever got the longest road wins. That game hurts my brain. But hey, I'm not a farmer for obvious reasons. I wouldn't survive one hour out there. They'd find my body. [laughter] You're 3 ft from the house.

>> Oh boy. >> I needed my gluten-free snacks.

>> [music]

[music]

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We're headed to Orlando up next. John joins us there. John, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for [music] having me. >> Absolutely. What's going on with you?

Yeah. So, I currently, yeah, as I said, I lived in or I live in Orlando and I have a pretty good job. Um, but I have a

potential career change and unique job opportunity that would take me out of state. Uh, but it would actually be a pay decrease. And another big problem is that I'm severely underwater on my mortgage. >> Oh, boy. Oh, >> you're not behind on payments.

>> No, no, no. >> Okay. So, how are you underwater?

>> Like upside down?

upside down. Yes. Sorry. >> You owe more than the house is worth.

>> Yeah. By quite a bit. >> How did we get here? >> Yeah. Houses.

>> Yeah. So, I bought this house about two years ago and the market was really high. Um and I knew of the whole home

buying thing, so I probably overpaid for it. >> Yeah. >> And then, yeah, houses in my area just they're really not selling well. Um

>> they're the prices have gone way down since I've bought. So, >> so you're underwater on paper right now as if you sold today, you would take a big loss and you would need to come up with the difference.

>> Yes. And that's the problem with this out ofstate job. Yeah.

>> How how do you have any money? Like do you personally have any money saved?

>> Yes, I have quite a bit of savings, but I just don't want to dig into it uh for this. >> How much do you have? >> But yeah, so I have um stocks that I get

for my company. I have about 110,000.

>> Okay. >> Um and then just and then like liquid cash I have maybe like 12,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So the the good news is if you did

choose to get out of this cuz it's 70,000 underwater. Is that correct?

>> That's what I'm expecting. Yeah. About 70,000. >> Okay. The good news is if you had to bring the cash to the table to get out of this house, you could. Um however, my

question is why are you moving out of state for a pay decrease? tell us more about the opportunity. That doesn't sound like an opportunity just yet.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um to give more background, uh I'm a software developer currently and I do really like my job.

Um and it the pay is good. Uh so, this

job would actually be a completely different career change and it would actually be in federal law enforcement.

>> Oh, wow. Okay.

>> Yeah. [laughter] So, something I've been thinking about doing since I was a kid and I finally got the opportunity to do it. the the process takes a really long time. So, and very few people make it through the process. So, I wasn't really thinking about this the whole time. I was just kind of going through.

>> What's the differences in pay? What do you make now and what would you make?

>> Yeah. So, um my total so to so base

right now is around 160,000.

>> Okay. >> Um my total pay after stocks and everything ends up being about 210,000 maybe a little bit more. >> Wow. because I get 50,000 in stocks.

Yeah. And then this new job um

would start out around like high 80,000s.

>> Um but it does go up after each year. Um

but yeah, it would definitely even long-term like the highest paid people in my in the new role would make slightly less than I make currently. And my >> like slightly less than the 160 or slightly less than the 210?

>> Uh slightly less than the 210. I think the top people like once you make the GS13 or whatever, I think it ends up

being around 190,000.

>> Okay. >> And you're single?

>> Yes, I am. I have a long-term girlfriend, but uh no, not married.

>> What's the You said um the percentage was low to even get into this. what what's the percentage like what's the chances that you'll move and actually get into the program or get to take the next steps?

>> Yeah, so right now so

they they're wanting to get me set up for training right now. So um so around

1% of people who apply actually get elected for like training, but I've actually made it all the way through to that to that stage. >> Okay. So you made it you made it under the fence. So what has what has to happen next? What's the timeline?

Um, so I haven't fully um labeled. So

yeah, training would be about three or four months from now. They have to get me selected for a training class and >> would you have to quit your job to do the training?

>> Yeah, I would. Yes.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And then the training Oh, go ahead. Sorry. >> Well, I'm just thinking through this. So, it sounds like this is something you really want to do. Um, >> right. this this is you've kind of decided you are doing it.

>> Um I haven't made up my mind. Um it

would be different if I wasn't happy in my current role, but I do really like my current job, but at the same time, yes, this is something I've wanted to do for a long time. >> Well, the truth is you can always go back to software developing if this doesn't work out or if it's, you know, I had fun, but I'm ready to go back. So, it'll always be there. I'm not mad at the pay cut if it's what you really want to do.

um the the you're gonna have to just suck it up and go these stocks are gone. I'm gonna use this to, you know, get out of this underwater mortgage. Uh you might owe some taxes and then you're going to move and that's going to cost money. And so just know it's not an optim a financially optimal move, but we know life is bigger than just spreadsheets.

>> Sure. >> Do you have any debt?

>> That other than the mortgage.

>> Okay. I mean, I think unless you have

another reason that you haven't told us about, if the reason for you strictly is a financial one and but I kind of like my job, I think we've given you an out for both of those. It's just uh do you want to go forward or not?

>> That's that's true. >> In the grand scheme of life, the underwater mortgage is is like, okay, that was kind of a stupid tax, you know, something you couldn't super control.

Now, you could have put more down and had more equity and got out of it unscathed, but here we are. And you're a smart guy. You make great money. You will recover.

>> Okay. Thank you. So, financially, it's not the end of the world. It's just if it's more about my decision on what career I want to do. >> Yeah. I mean, I c I could ask you this question. I mean, there's there's a chance that if you stuck in this house for a couple more years, maybe you'd see it go right side up. But will this federal law enforcement opportunity be available to you in 2 to 3 years? We don't know. >> Do you know? >> We don't know. Yeah. Um, so there is an

age limit. Um, I'm 32 right now and you

you have to enter training before you turn 37. So,

>> um, the window is kind of closing, but not it's not im closed. I mean, you got five years. So, if you if you said to yourself, I know I can wait three years and I I' I want to do that. You could wait three years and see if you can get right side up on this. Um, if you know for sure that that opportunity would be available to you and you wouldn't be one of you wouldn't be the 1% that doesn't make it to uh to training, right?

>> And would you just rent in this new area if you got the job?

Uh yeah, I would just that would probably be the plan starting out at the new job is to rent for a while. Uh training itself takes about six months and then um yeah, your housing is taken

care of during that time but then I would probably rent. >> Is the training paid?

>> Yes, it is.

>> Okay. And then the last question, I mean it's not part of the financial discussion, but the relationship is it going to survive long distance?

>> Um probably not. That's another Yeah,

that's another big factor in my decision. >> Okay. So, you're and you're okay with that, it seems.

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. >> Well, I think that's Yeah, it's just something I'll need to decide. So, I'm looking at all the factors. So, the financial factor and then also the relationship factor. And both of those I think are going to influence my decision. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I mean, if she's the one that that changes the scenario. But if you're like, "Hey, it's been fun, but this career means more to me right now than the relationship." That's a choice you're making, and you just got to make peace with that.

>> Yeah, that makes sense, >> man. A lot of big decisions, John. But I'm excited for you. This it does feel like one of those once in a-lifetime opportunities.

Now, if he was in crippling debt, didn't have the stocks, he was going to have to do a short sale and wreck his financial life, this would have been a different conversation.

>> That's a crazy change though from software developer to federal law enforcement. >> I got to know what I mean if it's you got to be at a there's age and only this many people get in. Is this like Seal Team Six C? >> Oh man, he's going to be knocking on some doors. >> I didn't want to ask cuz I felt like he wouldn't tell me. Whatever it is, none of my business.

>> I want to know more. It's like a series.

It's like Jack Ryan.

>> He is Jack Ryan. [laughter] He's not telling us.

>> [music]

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Kim are up next in Kansas. What's going on? >> Hey sir, how are you? >> We're doing great. This is a fun segment. You guys are not just random folks. You are baby steps millionaires.

Is that correct? >> We Yes, sir. We really are. And uh yeah,

it's it's really um it's really exciting

actually that both of us come from very humble beginnings and we found your plan many years ago. I'll let the wife explain that. Uh that kind of put us on this path and yeah, we can't thank you enough. It's just great.

>> That's great. Well, hey, I did diddly squad over here while you guys did all the hard work, but we're honored to be a part of the story. And for the listeners, we like to do these segments to say, "Hey, it's possible for you." These are real people, normal people who just worked their tails off over a period of time and invested consistently, and we want to hear how you did it. So, let's let's break this down.

What is your net worth as a family? >> Uh, well, we're north of 3.5.

>> and to break that down, uh, we got 2.7 in 401ks, IAS. We got about 100 liquid

in brokerage account, savings account, and our home uh, that we purchased last year with cash is valued at 700,000.

>> Good job. >> Amazing. How old are you guys?

>> I am 57 and mama is pretty close to that. >> Fantastic. Is mama on the line? I think I hear her back there.

>> Hi, Kate. I'm here. Yes. Hi. [laughter] >> Hey. >> Fantastic. Okay. What was your worst year of income and best year of income in your working careers?

>> Okay. 1987, my first year in the military, I made $8,694.

>> Wow. >> And best year so far.

>> This year, well, probably uh north of 300. And that's with that's with um six

retirement checks coming in on top of my my wages. Wow. >> Way to go. That's that's a glow up if I've ever heard of one. Wow. >> Yeah. Okay. So, what are your careers?

So, we are both we are both retired military. Um, and then we both went on to work for the military as civilians.

My wife is retired retired for good now.

She's retired twice. Um, and I'm working on my second retirement. I could retire any day. Uh, I have the time. I'm just uh I'm enjoying my job. So, >> the next three to five years, I'm going to walk. >> Maybe you'll hit a world record. You'll have three retirements. Just keep it going.

>> You're It's like that movie where the cop has one more mission in him. He said, "Come on, get out of retirement." >> Liam Niss. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Well, thank you for your service.

>> Yes. Incredible. What were your degrees in if you got them?

>> So, I got a two-year in general studies and then I'll let mama take over.

>> And I have a four-year degree in criminal justice. >> Fantastic. And do you remember your GPA during that time?

>> I think mine was 3.6.

>> Yeah. And mine was about the same. She's being humble. She was about a 3.8.

>> I can tell she's the smarts here. And you're the bronze.

>> That's awesome. >> I'm the sherpa. I'm the sherpa of the relationship. >> So, how did you do this? What was I mean, was this always on the radar? We want to save for retirement or did you go through some valleys to finally make it to this being the goal? Tell us a little bit about the journey financially.

>> So, yeah, we both, like I said earlier, we both come from very humble beginnings and we knew that um we had great families and great values, but we wanted to change the money part. So, we searched and searched and and like trying to find a path like how do we get there? How do we get there? And then from there, I I deployed in 2008 for 15

months. And while I was gone, I'm going to let mama take the conversation over though. >> So, we were stationed in Germany and he deployed to Iraq for 15 months. So, it was just myself and my daughter. And a

friend of mine told me about Dave Ramsey and she gave me the book to read it. And when he would call on Sunday, I would ask him, "Are you what are you watching on TV? Are you listening to any money people?" And he was listening to another

pretty well-known financial voice at

that time. And I told him about Dave Ramsey and how the podcasts were free.

It was just so easy to listen and get engaged. And I'd mail him a book. And and sure enough, as soon as he heard Dave Ramsey, we both just fell in with both feet. and dove into the program. It

was exciting. It was new. It was invigorating. It was, >> you know, a way of money management that we were not familiar with. And it all

made perfect sense. And, you know, with team effort and just intentional about

where every penny went, we were able to become debtree and, you know, then start

obviously saving saving money. So

because of a good friend and because we both wanted a change for our future, uh

Dave Ramsey really really turned the

switch for us. >> Wow. That's awesome. So this was like 17ish years ago. You guys kind of got focused and went, "All right, let's get out of debt. Let's start investing." >> We did. We went all in. Um I buy your books by the bundle and I pass them out.

When I got here, I passed them out to my team that I work with. Oh, >> that's awesome. And I said, "Hey, hey guys, just read this book. All I ask is you read it and pay it forward when you're able to one day." Uh, we've been to the seminars down in um in LA. We

>> signed up for the cruise. >> We were signed up for the previous cruise. >> The first one.

>> Yes. But co put a damper on that.

>> Yes, it would have been great. It was great when we did it again last year.

>> And then we Yes. Most recently, we co-taught prior to leaving Germany. We got back from Germany last year. We we co-taught a financial peace class with our chaplain >> and that was great. >> That's fantastic. Did you guys inherit any of this 3.5 million?

>> Not a penny, sir. No, sir.

>> Fantastic. And then I got to know what kind of cars are real life millionaires driving. Can you tell us the year, make model of your vehicles?

>> I am. The the car I drive to work every day is a 2009 Honda Accord.

>> That is so perfect. That's so spot on.

>> Wow. Wow. Wow. >> Okay. And how about mama? Mama's got a Honda Pilot in there. That's a 22 that we bought cash. You know, we were there.

>> Good man. The wife always drives the nicer car. That is the rule.

>> That's the rule. Yes, sir. So, yeah. And and yeah, we've only bought three car.

We've been married 30 31 years this um August. We've only bought three brand new cars over those 30 years.

>> Wow. >> So, we we just uh >> Papa's due for an upgrade, isn't he?

Well, [laughter] to be transparent, I got an upgrade last summer. We bought a I got a GMC Sierra

with the Denali package. Uh, but it sits in the garage cuz I baby it and I've never had a vehicle. >> Okay. Okay. Makes sense.

>> It's like too nice for you to drive.

It's just a trophy at this point. >> Sits on the on the shelf. >> Exactly. Take it to the gas station and then I that detail it and back it back in the garage. But yes. So, do your do your neighbors or friends and family know your your status and net worth and wealth? Because it doesn't seem like you flaunt it. If I drove by your house, I would like those guys are probably worth three and a half million.

>> Nope, they don't know. And I was telling my wife, I was telling Kim, I was like, this is funny because we don't have to worry about our family listening to this podcast cuz they don't follow you guys like we do. >> That's amazing. And sad at the same time.

I hope they do one day. Goes, "Hey, that's Mike and Kim. They didn't change their names. I recognize those voices." >> Wow.

Well, there's nothing to be ashamed of. That's the good news. If they're like, "Wa, I didn't know." You go, "Hey, we'll show you the way." There was no magic tricks here. You guys worked really hard.

You served your country well. You invested for the future.

>> Yes, sir. So, in 2002, the Army came out with the TSP, and you're well familiar with that. >> Oh, yeah. Savings plan. I watched that for about a year and then I I went all in in January of 2003 and then I kept

that while I was in um active duty. When I retired, I rolled it into my civilian TSP and now it's just one big one now that's growing. And my wife, she did, and this is what I tell people like it's never too late. My wife worked 11 years civil service. The last 10 was consecutive. She dumped um she maxed it

out every year with ketchup funds as well. And then she retired after 10 years. And now that her TSP has grown to

over a million dollars in 10 years of investing. >> It's crazy what some intentionality does and the alignment. That's the really inspiring part about you guys. I can tell you're in sync. I mean, you're passing the ball to Kim, she's passing it back to you, Ali, you guys. That that speaks to a great marriage, which then turns into a strong financial future.

So, thank you for inspiring us and everybody listening that it's still possible. 57 years old, 56 years old, worth3.5 million,0 in inheritance. He's

driving an 09 Accord. She's got the 22 Pilot as it should be. [music] I want to be them one day.

[music]

>> [music]

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[music]

Our scripture of the day, John 16:33. I

have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble, but take heart. I have overcome the world. James Clear

said, "When you can't win by being better, you can win by being different."

That's how I've got to where I am today. [laughter] Jade, >> I knew you were gonna make that about you somehow. >> Not the sharpest in the room, but I'm unique. >> You are unique. You're one of a kind.

There's only one George Camel. >> There you go. All right. Mindy is in College Station, Texas. Up next. What's going on, Mindy?

>> Hey, how are you? >> Great. How can Jade and I help today?

>> All right. So, I have been debtree. I

have no student loans. I am a senior in college and looking into moving out within the next year, uh, buying a house. And I have no credit score. and one of my professors kind of got into my head. I'm wondering how to best build a credit score without going into debt.

>> Great question. And by the way, I'm so proud of you. You know how weird it is that you are debtree and graduating college with no credit score?

>> Absolutely. >> It's a good thing. Way to go.

>> Yeah. >> So, what's your excited about it?

>> What's your current living situation? Are you at your parents? Are you in the dorm? Where are you right now?

>> Yes, I'm living with my parents at home.

Okay. Are you paying them any type of rent or just totally >> No, I lucked out. I am living rentree,

able to work only four hours a week at a

practically minimum wage job uh while

going through college.

>> Okay. And what will your job be when you

graduate?

>> I'm looking into government agricultural

work. >> Okay. And what will that pay?

uh somewhere around 70,000.

>> Okay, cool. A year. >> So, you're not technically ready to buy a house. You're just thinking about what you will need to be ready to buy a house. >> And is that the big reason for wanting a credit score, wanting to build it?

>> Correct. So, I'm in a deed of trust state. Um which means that no uh court

if I default on a mortgage and some of

the uh mortgage companies are a bit more harsh. So, I am wanting to have a good credit score when I graduate from college. >> Got it. But you're not going to be buying a house out of college.

>> No, not directly. >> So, you'll be renting for a while.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. And you can rent easily without a credit score. If you are employed, pass a background check, and you have enough money to cover a potentially higher security deposit, which you'll get back when you move out, they will rent to you.

And so, don't believe people who are like, "Well, you're going to need a credit score to rent an apartment still." I have rented many an apartment without a credit score. They just want to know, can you pay? Are you a criminal? And if not, they go, well, since we don't have the credit score, you'll pay a higher deposit.

That way, there's a little more skin in the game on your part. So, don't worry about that. >> Good to know. >> So, then let's talk about the idea.

We know you won't need it to rent. Let's talk about shifting you from the whole mindset of, well, I might need a credit score for something, uh, Jaden George, and we're going to just s suggest that you don't need to build a credit score for any reason because right now, I mean, think about it.

There must have be there must be a reason that you decided to go through your life with no debt. And the only way to build a credit score would be you having to get into debt.

>> Okay? And when you do get to that point of buying a house, which you know, and getting a mortgage, there's a process that I've been through called manual underwriting. You may have heard about it. And here's what's I'll tell you the exact things that are required cuz I did in-depth research for my book, which I'll send you, Mindy.

There's a whole chapter on credit scores and how to live without one where it's super nerdy. And here's the exact step. So, here's what you will need to get a credit to get a mortgage without a credit score. You'll need verification of income for the past 12 to 24 months.

>> Correct. >> You'll have rental payment history, 12 months of documented on-time payments.

You'll have that. >> You need 12 month history of your savings and bank statements, which you'll have that.

And then one or more regular monthly expenses as an alternative trade line.

So, think utilities, cell phone bills, anything that you've had to pay monthly, uh, that will count as well. And for anybody listening who's thinking of the same thing, if you are self-employed, you'll probably have to show your your tax uh return history for the previous

year. So, >> there's a little more risk there with self-employed folks to make sure their income will stay that way. So, that's Mindy. That's all you need. And you can reach out to our friends at Church Hill Mortgage as you get closer and they can help you in your area go here's exactly what you need. And the truth is, here's what they do. They do manual underwriting, which means no computer runs it. There's no credit score.

There's no automated underwriting. And so a real person looks at all this information to grant you the loan and essentially give you a quote unquote good credit score.

>> Okay? >> So that's what happened to me. As long as you do 15-year fixed rate mortgage with at least 10% down, that's the other thing is you got to do it the Ramsay way, not going, well, I'm going to put 3% down on a, you know, USDA loan on a

30-year. You're going to have a harder time doing that. But if you're a strong borrower, meaning 15 year and 10% down, they go, "All right, or 20% even better." And so that's what I would be focusing on is just stacking cash since you're doing so good instead of worrying about, "Do I need to open a credit card and start building my score and keep up% do not >> I would spend your energy elsewhere." >> Sounds good. Thank you so much.

>> Yeah, thanks for the call. And uh hang on the line. Kelly's going to pick up.

We'll get you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, which breaks all of that down for you. Hunter is in Arkansas up next. Hunter, what's going on? >> Hey, man.

How y'all doing? >> We're doing great. We're running a little short on time, so get right to the question. Let's see if we can help you.

>> Yeah, man. So, basically, uh, sum it all up. I'm just trying to do better at trying not to live paycheck to paycheck, you know.

>> Yeah, the first thing, you know, paycheck to paycheck is usually a symptom of a bigger problem. You're just feeling the effects of something bigger.

It's usually a spending problem or an income problem. So tell us a little bit about your income.

>> Right. So this past year I just cleared

over 117,000 and my total bills for each month is

roughly around 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. >> And uh so yeah, I roughly make after

taxes 1,400 a week. That gives me a little bit of uh once I move everything to my bills account, I roughly have $550 to $600 a week after that to spend

freely. >> So you're bringing home 7273,000 or so and your expenses are 36,000 a

year. So you should have half your income sitting somewhere, but you're saying it's disappearing and you're not able to cover all the bills.

>> Well, no, it's not necessarily I'm not covering bills. I got the bills are taken care of. Like I got a whole another account where it automatically direct deposits into my bills account.

So those are all on autopay. It's just more so the the free spending money as well as trying to cut into me trying to save some of that as well.

>> Do you have any debt?

>> Yes. So I I got a truck payment, uh a

sideby-side payment, student loans, and rent. >> Student loans. How much are the student loans?

Uh the balance is right at $11,000 and the payment is $121 a month.

>> Okay. What do you owe on the truck and what do you owe on the side by side?

>> The truck I owe49,000 and the side I owe 23,000.

>> Goodness gracious. >> There's your problem right there. My >> ding ding ding. We found a winner.

>> Yeah, dude. You got $73,000 in toys going down in value and you make a little over 100,000. It's just simply way too much. Which means I think uh one

or both of these things should be sold to free up a whole lot of income. What's the payment on the side by side and the truck?

>> The truck is uh 1,130

and the side is 575.

>> Woo. And what's your rent every month?

>> Well, we split it so it's 475. So my part is 475. >> Goodness. Your your truck payment is like triple your rent, >> right?

Do you see the problem here? You're going, "Hey, I'm living a paycheck to paycheck." It's like, "Doctor, what's going on? I don't know why I'm in pain." And we're like, "Dude, you got a knife in your back. That's what's going on." It's the truck and the side by side.

>> It's that. And I mean, for a guy who's making, you know, I don't know. What did you tell me? 1,400 bucks a week. I You're spending on something. You Do you have a girlfriend?

>> Yeah, I do. Yes, sir. >> All right. Do you have a budget?

>> Uh, no. >> We try It's in my head.

>> It's a mental budget.

>> Yeah, that's I think that's your big problem. I mean, don't get me wrong, this truck and this side by side are a problem. You need to sell um one of them probably instantly and then do the work to pay off the other, but uh you got to

get on a budget first and foremost. I think if you get on an every dollar budget, you're going to see where all this money is slipping through the cracks. My guess is it's on social life.

I think you're at that. like you get off work, go get a drink with your boys, take your girl out, going out on the weekends, all of those things. >> Door Dash here, Uber Eats there.

>> Kelly's going to pick up and make sure you get set up with every dollar so you can get back on track. >> We're rooting for you, man. This is a solvable problem. All right, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 242. When You Feel Overwhelmed, Control the Controllables | September 12, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOdFx9kOcbA) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:08:33 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the Rachel Cruz show. My daughter, she's my co-host today. Open phones here at8255225.

Before we go to the phones, we're just going to take a second and

get off format a little bit. Off format because some of you will hear all of this in another day or so. Some of you that listen on podcast and things, you might hear it two weeks from now. But uh acknowledging that uh we do do this show live from 1 to 4 central time every day

on the glass in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions and people nice people are out there right now watching us do it. Uh which means they really need to get a hobby and um but there they are.

>> We love y'all. >> We love you. We love you but I mean come on really. And so uh but the uh anyway you're here and thank you for hanging out with us.

We got free coffee and free cookies. So that that makes that makes it all worthwhile. >> So anyway, because of that and and the show is on 680 talk radio stations. Many of those are live.

And so just to let you guys that are listening two weeks from now understand what's going on.

And so uh which I noticed the other day I noticed a minute ago it's called Patriots Day. I missed that somehow that it had been named, >> but the acknowledgement of the terror

attacks on the towers, bringing the towers down >> in the Pentagon >> in in the Pentagon and 3,000 plus almost

4,000 people losing their lives, including first responders in very short period of time. The largest death toll

on American soil uh since Pearl Harbor.

And um I was actually on the air then when that occurred. This this show's been on the air for 30 plus years. Uh we were obviously in a different location with a microphone that was not this nice, but because we were >> I guess it would be later that day because they were at 9:30 a.m.

>> We were in the office in staff meeting in the 8:30 a.m. our time.

>> That's right. That's right. >> Um is and 8:35 is when we sat and

watched the second one on live on television and going to the towers. And then um we've got to decide with a show like this, what are we going to do in the middle of something like that?

because we're basically useless. We're not a news organization. And so, um, we,

uh, got in touch with our friends at ABC, uh, because they were they're in

charge of the satellite that we run this thing on for talk radio. And we got their permission to just put their news feed on our network. And we did that for two days uh and just shut our show down because there me commenting on that would have been taken about five minutes and then I wouldn't have anything intelligent to say because I didn't know anything. Nobody knew anything.

I was just a regular dude on a microphone in Nashville, Tennessee. And so I didn't need to try to play into that. So we stepped aside and let them cover it for a couple days and then I got back on on Friday. The stock market reopened on Tuesday following >> Well, it was Tuesday was the day it happened.

So I bet >> it it was a week later. Yeah. I got back on the air by Thursday, I guess Thursday or Friday, and said, "Hey, the stock market's going to open next week. You guys chill." So then I had something to tell.

>> I think I realized that it closed for almost a full week. >> Yeah, it was well for two reasons. One was the fear. So didn't want the markets to go bananas.

is literally the dust was had not settled on it. It was it's it's under the shadow of the Twin Towers or was under the shadow of the Twin Towers. And so, um, it it didn't it didn't actually get physically damaged, but it was within a few blocks or so there. That's what we were dealing with. So, anyway, all of that and here we sit in the middle of this, and this is the day after the assassination of our friend Charlie Kirk. And so, all of that um is

just a just a moment to be reflective and go, evil is real. I was on a panel

after 911 and I was reminded of it

yesterday when Charlie was assassinated.

um that uh and it was like talk radio

ABC guy. I won't name them. They were people that you would know their names.

And uh Wolf Blitzer from CNN was

conducting the panel. We were at a talk radio convention, which a talk radio convention guys is somewhat like going to a Star Wars bar. So, um kind of some

weird characters there. So anyway, we're we're lined up on this thing and uh I ain't they're all doing politics and talking about this or that or whatever and and Wolf said, "Well, Dave, you haven't had much to say." And one of the other hosts was uh like a Delhoney type

character doing relationship stuff. And she said, "Well, I think we now have to consider that evil is real." And I said, "Well, ma'am, I'm from Tennessee. We already knew it was." And um we were just reminded again yesterday. uh 911 we remember evil is

real. Uh there is a conspiracy and it's

called Satan. Evil is real. And then

you're reminded when you witness things like that um at a distance and like we witnessed yesterday with Charlie's assassination, evil is real. Don't know

who evil got to do its work for sure

yet, but we do know evil's real.

>> Yeah. And uh so and and that that is

that's a world view period. Um and in

today's moment with everyone so

uh fired up to say the least one way or the other um that just me saying that's going to be confident uh uh controversial and like I've really care what you think about that. But it's okay. I'll deal with it. But so it it's it's very real. It's a real thing and

there are things outside of our control.

The weird thing is we spend all of the things all our time on this show teaching you to control the things you can control. >> Yeah, >> you can't control that. I can't control

that. But I can control how I react. I can control how I treat other people in the meantime. I can control how I treat my family. um I uh I I can control

uh much of what happens in my destiny is up to me and and so we try to keep people back on that rather than you're you're not a victim of circumstances and you're not a victim of a systemic evil

that is uh loose in the land and is very

real regardless of who the players are, who the individual players in the flesh are, there's definitely a systemic thing going on. And uh so we can step back and look at that and go, Jesus, come quickly. >> Yeah. >> You know, it's just uh >> Lord have mercy. I mean, it's >> have mercy on us, Lord. And uh and and protect, you know, your children. So, um

but wow. Wow. What a crazy thing. So, you do have choices and we're going to go back to reminding you of that in just a few minutes because we spent our entire lives reminding of that. You have choices and um you have made some bad ones. Some of you like I have made bad ones. Uh, I made so many bad ones that it gave me a PhD in DUMB and, uh,

qualifies me uniquely to, uh, be the cause of this show to happen every day.

And so, um, I'm not telling you you

anything you've done, I've done dumber with more zeros on the end. So, I know exactly what stupid looks like. I'm uniquely qualified to call it out. So, we'll get back to doing that in just a few minutes here, but we want to take a second and pause and just remember 911

and the families that were affected there decades later. Um, decades now.

Wow. It's crazy, isn't it?

>> Also remember where I was sitting when I when I heard that the SEAL team had gotten Osama bin Laden.

>> I know exactly where I was sitting. >> Yep. >> And uh that was kind of joyful moment.

One le one one less evil thing moving around out there. >> A good thing. >> Good thing. >> Heavy day.

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[Music]

6 60 66.

All right, guys.

So, we're going to continue to walk down memory lane and then we're going to get to your calls. But uh 25 years ago

joining the Ramsay team was a guy named Bob Borquez. He's sitting in the booth right now cuz he's multi-talented. He can do almost anything. His main job in the old days was to call and get new radio stations to carry what was then called the Money Game, later called the Dave Ramsey Show and now called the Ramsay Show. Um he has put well over 700

radio stations on the air with us. We currently have 680. You can't keep them.

They go away sometimes. And so, uh, over that 25 years, so the Ramsay show success, the network and talk radio land, uh, was on the shoulders of a guy named Bob Borquez. He's 25 years with us, 66 years old, and he's retiring this month. So, uh, you guys, >> this is so sad, Bob.

>> Yeah, Bob, it's not it's not even going to be I don't know how we're operate without you. I mean, it's like we don't know what to do. But, yeah, so he's, uh, >> just the best guy. an absolute Ramsay uh star of the show around here for all these years.

And you don't you don't build something of this scale, of this magnitude without having a whole bunch of thoroughbredads around you.

>> Wonderful husband, wonderful dad.

>> Yes, he is. >> Strong believer, loves Jesus. He's just incredible. Bob, we're going to miss you. >> Yeah, good man. And um been an honor to work with you all these years. >> Thank you. Thank you, Dave. Thank you for hiring me and giving me a chance.

I've loved working with you under your leadership and being with this Ramsey family. It's been such a blessing. >> Yeah, you're a good man. Mark is in Memphis. Mark, how are you?

>> I'm doing great, Mr. David. How you doing, sir? >> Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help? >> Man, I got a quick question for you. Um, I got a pretty good uh financial plans.

At least I believe it's a good financial plan set up, but I want to run it by you. I trust your judgment better than mine. Um, currently, um, I make, uh,

$80,000 of, u guaranteed, I would say guaranteed income. I can explain that in a second. Uh, total debt I have, $137,000, that is $111,000 of a mortgage, $16,000

of a home equity line of credit, and $9,500 on a car payment. I have no

credit cards, um, no other debt besides those three items. My current plan is to

pay off the home equity line first just

because that's where most of my money has been going being more interest. Um

the second attack was the car payment and the last was the mortgage and the current plan I have set up. Everything should be paid off. Um by the time I'm I

think it's 37. I'm currently 28 years old. Um, and going back to the income, say the $80,000 of uh current income of

a guaranteed income, I also bring home

um another $20,000 or so and bonuses.

>> Okay. So, you're making 100K and you've got $25,000 in debt plus your mortgage.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Well, I would I would flip the heliloc mark and the car. I would pay the car off first. And if I were you, I mean, I would I would be aggressive. I would do this. Um, I I would look at the consumer debt first and not the mortgage. So, I would separate it out. I would look at that $9,000 and see how fast we can get that car paid off. And the heliloc would be next. And then from

there, there's probably some other financial goals you may want to hit before even, you know, getting to that mortgage. Um, but that that's what I would do. And I think you could do that.

I think it'll be I think you'll do it faster than nine years. Personally, Mark, I think I think you'll be able to attack this stuff quick, but especially the car. I would go ahead and get that out cuz how much is your payment per month on the car?

>> Uh, the car payment is 460 465 a month.

>> See what what you should at a minimum >> you ought to be done in a year. That's $2,000 a month, not counting the house.

>> Correct. >> $2,000 a month you're done. And so that tells us with 460 plus 2,000 a month uh

on the car that's um you know 2500 on

9,000 that tells us in 3 months and some change the car is gone and then we knock the other the other out in the next 9 months. And so when you do it that quickly Mark the interest rate on either

one of these things doesn't matter because you're not going to have it very long.

>> Yes, sir. >> So we always tell you to pay what Rachel's doing the smallest off first.

Um, if you're 100% debtree other than your house in one year, you you've not done anything dumb either way. But I think you'll have better results. And we've proven it by paying off the smallest first. And we teach a thing called the baby steps. And in baby step two, you pay off your debts, smallest to largest, paying minimum payments on everything but the little one, and attack the little one with a vengeance and then move on up. Um, and then yeah,

I think your house will be paid off that quick because you got a very modest mortgage, been very wise in that regard, >> and you make really good money. So, congratulations. Hey, I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. It gives you the all the details on the baby steps, exactly why, when, and how to work them. And dude,

work them in exactly that order. It's proven to build millionaires. It absolutely works. Melissa's in North Carolina. Hi, Melissa. How are you?

Hangy. I'm all right. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I guess my main question is, can you ever graduate from baby step number four? Uh, and to go into that, my spouse is military and, um, so we have never

bought a house because we didn't want to trap ourselves into having a mortgage and also a rent or a second mortgage.

So, um, we, uh, were mainly just really

aggressive with, um, retirement. Um, and

then also we had a child about two years ago and we were aggressive with a 529 plan. So, we feel pretty good about where that's at. And so, when that's when my spouse retires next year, um,

should we really scale down on uh the,

you know, the retirement savings. Um, um, so right now we've got about 225K in

all the different retirement accounts, mainly TSP. Uh, >> way to go, Melissa. Oh, well, >> way to go. It feels pretty good, doesn't it? >> Start it early. Uh, and >> and thanks, tell your husband thanks for his service. So, I I would just use a different phrasing than graduate. So,

you may have heard us talk about when you finish baby step three, you've got 3 to 6 months of expenses saved and you uh

are out of debt except your home. If you don't have a home, that's the point that people will start saving for a down payment on a home. Typically, you're not in that situation. And we call that baby step 3B. And when they're doing the save for the down payment thing in 3B, some people put money into their baby step four and some don't. Okay. While they're

saving for a down payment. And so what's

happened is is you didn't buy a house as a strategic move yet. And that was a wise move. I agree with your strategy.

Now when he gets out of the military, you are going to buy a house. And so really what that's going to do is it's going to put you back to baby step 3B.

And you might temporarily put retirement and kids college on hold, but not

because you graduated, but because you're you're kind of going back, you're stopping to get your down payments.

>> Did you say he's retiring, Melissa, next year? >> Yes. So, he'll have a pension. So, that's another reason why when I do the calculations up in the numbers of the way, 225 will, you know, increase, you

know, in theory over the next 30 years because we're 36. So, um, yeah. So, so

that's why I wondered, >> no, you don't, you never stop saving

permanently.

>> Okay. >> So, no, I disagree with we got a good military pension and 225 is enough. No, I would always be >> doing three things with money uh once I'm out of debt. I would always be having fun with it, investing it, and being generous. You never graduate from those three things.

>> Okay. Got it. So, we can scale back. We

can scale back the 15. >> Or stop it. Or stop it while you save a down payment. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> And if And hey, you're two years out.

You could stop it now.

>> Oh. Uh, okay. All right.

>> And and save, you know, save like crazy right now for a down payment. Has he got his new career picked out?

>> Uh, not yet. Um, he also has, you know,

education benefits. So, >> I know, but he needs to get it picked out. two years is going to be here in about 20 seconds.

>> Oh, absolutely. But career-wise, yes. Uh he wants to work with computers uh uh in

like network security.

>> Oh, that's great. >> That's great. >> Yeah. Phenomenal. Okay. Yeah. So, move on from the military. >> And that's a next that's an exciting step when you when you do retire from that. You guys get to be settled in in a city. You get to buy a home. You get to plant roots. I mean, yeah. It's a fun next season for you guys. The next chapter >> and you've earned it serving your country for 20 years. Thank you.

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[Music]

>> Mary is with us in Virginia. Hi, Mary.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Thanks for taking my call. Yeah, if I'm calling trying to get your advice on what we should do, my husband and I, with a large sum of money that we're going to be getting over the next 5 years or so, send it to Dave's Bahama

Fund.

That does sound nice. >> Dave's Dave's Virgin Island fund. Yeah.

So, how what's a large what's a large sum? How much >> we should be getting after taxes? About half a million. You're selling a business, >> correct? We're starting business.

>> That's awesome. >> Thank you. >> How fun. How long have you run the business? >> Yeah, we're excited. >> Well, so actually it's a family business that I just have share in and we've decided to move on as a family.

>> Wow. >> So that's my share.

>> How many gener How many generations?

>> Three. >> And what what kind of business? Just curious. >> It's a hospitality. Well, it's actually like a restaurant and a gift shop. Um but it's still going to be with my family. issues being sold is kind of complicated. >> Oh, one one family member is buying out the rest. >> Pretty much, more or less. >> Okay. Wow. Well, that's cool. I'm sorry.

I just I love family business stories and I study it and I coach a lot of family businesses. Our our team does through entre leadership. So, I was just curious about the details. Well, wonderful.

Half million bucks and you want to know what to do with it, >> right? We have a little bit of a not so straightforward future. Uh the next 5 years, my husband is actually leaving the military. Um and he's going back to school.

He wants to be a doctor. He's wanted that for a long time. Um I'm a physical therapist and I'm also I'm working part-time and then also taking care of our kids. So we're just trying to figure out the wisest way to spend this money without um as much financial security.

>> He wants to be an MD >> for the next 5 years.

>> And how much is the military going to pay for that? How much of that are they going to pay? >> Is free. We will pay nothing >> all the way through med school.

>> All the way through. >> Wow. >> That's amazing. Well, thank you for your service. That's awesome.

>> Okay, so you don't need that, but you may need money to eat with while he's not working and going through that, >> right? And we have So, our monthly expenses are about 6,000 and based on like his different payouts from the military, we have about $4,000 coming in every month whether I work or not. Okay.

>> Um, so we have about $2,000 deficit a month. Um, and then we on top of that we have 125,000 in cash like high yield savings and then 180 in liquid investments like stock market and then 350 in retirement. >> Do you have any debt? >> Good job. >> No debt. No. >> Even on the house?

>> No, we do owe sorry we do owe about 230 on our mortgage. >> Okay. >> It's worth about 450.

>> Okay. Um, we may or may not be moving depending on he's actually applying to med schools now, so we're not sure exactly where we'll be. We're hoping to stay in the area. >> Okay. >> Do you want to continue working, Mary, part-time? Is that something that you enjoy or would you step back from that even?

>> You know, I do enjoy it and I want to keep my skills up. Um, I'm a physical therapist by trade, so I I don't know

that I want to be responsible for the whole load of you. I want to have a back stop should I not want to work or we would like to have more kids and things like that. >> Sure. Absolutely.

>> Okay. So, you have a mortgage balance of what again? >> 230. >> 230.

>> 230. >> Okay. And you have 300 in in liquid and in high yield and you're getting another 500. So, you got 800 to work with, right?

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, it's just the only thing is with the payouts they it depends on how they decide to pay them out.

It's going to be over the next 5 years.

>> be Yeah. It could be a hundred each year or something. >> Correct. >> Okay. It's going to be more than $2,000 a month though, >> right? For sure. >> All right. So, um All right. So, well,

as soon as you know if you're staying in the area, if you are, pay off the house that day, whether you've got this money or not, because you got enough money in the bank now to do that. And you should have already done that.

>> Yeah. And we thought about it. We just with our future is so uncertain.

>> Well, as soon as you soon as you know to us, soon as you know when where he's going to med school, >> then you know if you're going to stay in that house, right? That's going to be in what the next year, right?

>> Right. >> Okay. Then pay off the house if you're staying. Okay.

>> Okay. Now, now your expenses just went down. Hello. >> Right.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. And then we're going to take the rest of it uh from the sale of the restaurant and the portion that we also didn't use because you have 300.

You only need 230 to pay off the house. And by the time you get to it, you probably only need 210 to pay off the house.

that we endorse. We don't do investments, but if I were in your shoes, I would put this in good growth stock mutual funds. Uh, I would look for some low turnover funds, which that means they don't sell the stocks inside them very often. Uh, they're they're fairly uh conservative funds. They're not very exciting, but you also don't have a lot of taxes on them. And uh, you

know, if they earn 10% and you had

$600,000 to work with, that'd be 60,000 a year. That'd be 5,000 a month. You're not going to have all of that initially, but eventually that's where you'll get to.

Mhm. And so you would recommend the stock market even if we're not playing like if we do need to take some of that out. >> Why would you need to take some of it out?

>> Well, just for monthly expenses if I'm not working. >> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. We just covered monthly expenses.

>> I want you to begin taking out the income off of it.

>> If you invest 600 and it makes 60 a

year, they'll send you a check for $5,000 a month out of that.

>> Right now I understand. Thank you.

>> Okay. and and we're not going to touch it. Uh we're but we're gonna leave the goose that's laying the golden eggs alone.

>> Yeah. The initial investment >> that that's the portion that goes in there. And so yeah, the day you know where if you're going to stay in town or not, you pay off the house. If you move, buy a house of equal dollar amount as

you have now or less >> and do the same plan.

>> Okay?

Don't use moving as an excuse to move up in house while he's in med school.

>> Yeah. No, >> you can move again after he gets out of med school. >> Right. >> And you might very well move again after he gets out of med school anyway.

>> And more depending upon his income versus this. >> Yeah. Well, based on his income, but you also might move cities after you leave med school. >> Oh, yeah.

>> You might get a great offer with a great hospital and a city you'd rather live in than where the med school is. >> How long will that take? Mary, do you know the program that he wants to do and everything?

>> It really depends. No. So med school is like the Yeah. Next one more five more years essentially and then he's got three years at least after that of residency. So the pay there is less than six figures typically. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but again more than enough for us to live on >> with the other incomes that we have.

>> You've done such a wonderful job if you use this nest egg you called about plus

your normal operating procedure which you guys are very careful and you're very good planners. you've done an excellent job. >> If you do all of that, this is very very doable with no debt at all >> and living completely debtree the entire time and your your wealth will continue to grow and then when he comes out of residency, it's going to go zoom zoom.

>> Okay. And Dave, you just said a Mazda zoom zoom. I know you're a car guy. If I do need a new car with growing family, would you support like using some of this money to buy? >> Yeah. We just want to be real careful because if we take the leg off the goose >> and then we take another leg off the goose, >> right? >> Pretty soon your goose is cooked.

>> Yeah. >> So, don't be messing Don't be messing with that principle. Okay.

>> Bad thing. >> But get a car.

>> Yeah. Get a car. I mean, you're making Listen, you told me you need $2,000 a month. We just gave you $5,000 a month.

So save up and buy a car. I mean, you got plenty of money coming in off of this, >> but no, I would not support using the goose. Leave the principal alone.

>> You wouldn't use any of the half a million dollars to get a car. >> You don't need to. You got the money.

Crap. Right now, they got the money. If they pay off, if they have 300k in the bank in these two accounts and they pay off 230, they got 90. What kind of car does this woman need? Yes. >> Okay. So, there we go. >> Maybe a $90 Suburban. We don't know.

>> Well, maybe not. Maybe not. Your husband's in med school. Maybe not.

Maybe we're driving a cheaper Suburban.

>> I know. An older >> or a minivan. >> There we go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's important. Yeah. >> Great. >> But yeah. Yeah. I don't be >> No, I hear you. It's good. >> The work develop a game plan and then work the system and then don't get all antsy and jump the system. That That's where That's the whole issue here. You guys have been doing a really good job of that. I'll say it again. I don't think you're going to mess this up, but just I know I've got about 35 other

million people listening who might mess it up. So, >> we just kind of want to make sure that >> while we're talking to Mary, we know there's people he's dropping. There we go.

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[Music]

If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. New trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities, either Rachel or Jade or George. We're going to show you how to stick to a budget, find thousands of dollars of margin using every dollar. Since I started doing this with a yellow pad, long before there was a sophisticated piece of software to show you exactly, an app to show you exactly how to work our system, including the budget, just doing a budget.

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And you can ask questions during the live Q&A. And you're going to learn how to get out of debt. Why? So you can become wealthy because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. Sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.jim is in Texas. Hey Jim, how are you?

>> Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> I need some advice on how I can break it

to my wife that we are broke and that we are $500,000 in debt.

>> Wow. >> Why does she not know this?

>> I take care of all of our finances. Um,

she has a credit card that she swipes and doesn't have to worry about anything. Um, >> yes, she should. It's >> just something that I've taken advantage of and, you know, gotten us even deeper with not including her in this

uh spending ordeal.

>> Mhm. >> How long y'all been married?

>> We've been together since we were 16 and we're I'm 26 and she is 25.

>> You got married when you were 16?

>> 10 years. No, we've been dating since 16 and we got married in 2022.

>> She'd been married three years.

Yes. >> Grant up a half a million dollars in debt in three years.

>> Yes. >> What the crap did you buy?

>> Well, I went from an income of 25,000 in

2022 to an income of 160 150,000 in 23.

And then year to date for 25, I'm at

195,000 just myself.

>> Yeah. That doesn't explain how you want a half million dollars in debt. your income. >> Your house too, Jim. Does that include your house?

>> It does. >> How much do you owe on your home?

>> 330,000. >> Okay. She knows that.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And what is the other $170,000 in

debt? >> We have two vehicle loans and majority of the other debt is credit cards.

>> Okay. So, the two vehicle loans amount to what?

>> My vehicle is 50,000 and hers is 35.

Okay. And and she's aware of those.

>> She is. >> Okay. And and so >> which those are just reoccurring payments that >> I know. I know. But she's not it's not like she The way you describe this like there's a half million dollars in debt my wife doesn't know about. Yes, she does. >> It's about 80,000 of credit card debt that she may not understand is floating out there, >> but she's been running running her credit card around like she's in Congress. So, she probably has a clue about that, too.

>> She may not think it's 80. She may think 15 to 20. Okay. You guys are you guys are you said 26 years old.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's re let's frame reframe

this a little bit then. Okay. Uh what you're really asking is how do I get my wife to get on a plan because our current plan sucks.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Not how do I tell her about a half million dollars in debt she doesn't know. Cuz that's not true. She does know about it. Yeah. >> All right. So, what I would do is say this. Say, "Hun, I gave this a shot. I'm a new husband. I didn't know what I was doing. But I am getting very afraid with

our current trajectory that even though we make a lot of money that we're going to be broke. And we are really broke right now making $190,000 a year. We have car payments, we have house payments, we have credit cards are out of control. And you and I are going to have to work together to get on a different system than the one we've been using.

Because the one we've been using, which is me just doing letting you do anything you want to do and me not telling anybody anything, those are two really bad ideas and we're going to stop doing that. >> Yeah. Yeah.

I can't and I'm sorry I haven't told you about the credit card. Like >> this is everything. >> I don't think you were deceiving someone. Uh I think you're concerned that you you've never told her no and now you get the opportunity for her to be an adult and tell herself no.

>> Correct. Yes. How do you think that's going to go?

>> She's easy going. I think it'll go okay.

Um, it's just handing the ball over to someone else. >> No, we're not handing the ball over to somebody else.

The two of you are going to sit down together like two grown-ups instead of daddy and daughter.

>> Okay? >> You're like a daddy spoiling his only daughter.

Instead, you're going to say, "Honey, we're going to sit down like two adults now, and here's how much money is coming in, >> and here's what we owe on the house, and here's what we have to pay on these stupid cars, and we make $190,000 a

year, and we're broke because we're out of control. We don't have a system,

>> and we buy everything in sight. So, we together need to figure out how we as two grown-ups are going to exist on freaking 200 grand a year at 26 years old." way.

>> Well, that's just my income.

>> What does she make including hers? >> What does she make? >> Uh 55,000 a year.

>> Well, then let's try it again. 100 or $245,000 a year. We make a quarter of a million dollars a year and we are broke.

>> So, because our system sucks so bad, >> we start on Xing out some of this debt.

>> I recommend that the two of you sit down and have a come to Jesus meeting tonight and say, "Here's what our total income is per month. here's what we have to spend on the house. Here's what we have to spend on these cars. We have this much in credit card debt and we have to buy some food and lights.

Let's figure this out. And all of a sudden, you guys are going to go, "Holy crap, we're out of control." Both of you are going to have that moment. You've already had the moment. You're just trying to figure out how to navigate the fact that you're not doing it by yourself anymore.

Dude, that was a bad idea to start with, and we're stopping that right now because you get two benefits. One is you get another brain involved to help you. Uh the other thing the benefit you get is you don't have to carry all the stress by yourself. Yeah.

Oh, and the other benefit is she suddenly is as a grown-up is going to buy into a future plan.

>> Yeah. And the good thing is Jim, you guys are going to see as you start mapping this out. It's going to be Yeah.

It's going to be fast. I mean like after taxes >> Okay. >> If after taxes and you guys say you lived on 90,000, you know, that frees up. It's like oh my gosh. I mean you debtree in a year. >> Yeah. $110,000 put towards this debt.

Well, you could be completely >> I haven't filed for 2024.

>> What? What' you say?

>> Okay, put that on the list. >> I haven't filed my taxes.

>> What do you owe there? What What do you owe there? What will the tax bill be?

>> I just spoke with the tax lady today. Um

I paid 25,000 in 2023.

So, I'm reckoning.

>> You've not set any money aside for your taxes? Are you 1099 or something?

>> I am 1099. >> Okay. And you've not done any quarterly estimates?

>> I have not. >> Your tax lady sucks.

>> How in the world are you making that kind of money and not doing quarterly estimates? >> What?

>> She did and I moved on to another tax lady. >> Oh, she wanted to do >> quarterly estimates.

>> No, she didn't give me any advice, nowhere to go. Just kind of send me what your income is and I'll tell you what you owe. >> Okay. Yeah. Go to Ramseysolutions.com and you can find one of the endorsed local providers for taxes. The Ramsey trusted people to help. You need to be doing quarterly estimates. But now you got another 25,000 or 40,000 or whatever it is. It's on this list >> of things you've got to address. But dude, you got to start you seven. Yeah.

Yeah. You guys can start knocking this out, Jim. So, what I would do is sit down tonight. You guys need to list out all of your debt. I would include the IRS bill in that and that'll be first.

Then list out every credit card and what you guys owe on it. >> Cut them up. both car loans, cut them up, be done with it, and you start working your way the smallest debt first. Well, the IRS is going to be paid, so get that paid.

>> But this is not you telling your wife what to do. No, >> this is you saying, "Honey, join me in being a grown-up and living on less than we make." >> And that you're not going to do this by yourself anymore, Jim. And tell her that that every month we're going to sit down and relook at this plan. >> I need some help.

I need you to walk together.

Just wave the white flag like Rachel said and you guys are young. >> Surrender. You got plenty of time this >> you make a lot of money.

>> You guys could be multi-millionaires [Music] this >> if you get in control of this and just,

you know, quit kicking the can down the road.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel

Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at

888255225.

Cheryl is with us in Atlanta. Hey Cheryl, how are you? I'm doing okay.

>> Good. How can I help?

>> Okay. Um, I have cleaning service in Atlanta. I make about three thou uh 13,000 a month. I started the Dave

Ramsey plan and paid off over half my debt in the past six months. However, uh the first two years when I started my business, I thought I had won the lottery with all the extra money and then um I got in some bad behaviors with

spending. Um, so I incurred about like 50 $45,000 in debt. Um, but I've I'm

down to 20,000. I've been crushing it this year. I've every uh I've got the every dollar and I've been budgeting. We don't eat out. We eat cheap. Um, I've cut spending um a lot.

>> Yeah, thanks. Um, but so I have not been

saving for my taxes. No, that this year instead of writing off so many expenses, I want to claim more because I would like a house one day. Uh, but I have not saved up for maybe 16,000 in taxes. So,

how can I save this up and still pay my operating costs as well as my own bills?

I want to catch this before April.

>> Good. You're getting ahead of it a little bit. Okay. So, your taxes for last year are paid, but not not for 24.

Yeah, I've been writing off I only I only I wrote uh the income was like 156 and the tax person got it down to like maybe I made on paper 14,000. So I tried

stop you are under the illusion that

there are mysterious ghost columns that are not actual expenses that can be written off. Those don't exist.

If you only made 14,000 for tax purposes, that means you only made 14,000.

>> Yeah. like writing off like >> no honey, that means you won't make a freaking profit. Your business is barely open.

>> Okay, >> those are actual expenses that you write off. There's no other thing except depreciation schedules. And you don't have any of those in a business your size.

So, you're really not making any money.

>> You've gotten confused. Okay, let's stop a second. Let's just have a basic business primer here for a second. All right, business works like this. Gross revenues are the total intake that you bring in from the customer. Your total revenue, >> correct? >> That is apparently about 13,000 a month.

Does that sound right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Then you have the business expenses that it takes to actually operate the business in order to make

the 13,000 come in the door. Those expenses are called expenses. They're subtracted from the 13,000.

What is left is called profit.

That is taxable.

>> Yes.

>> Period. >> Okay. Yes, sir. I was just going off of um like the last year. This year I've been doing my um own P&Ls and I'm much more I was having other people do it because >> So, wait a minute. If you >> if you're doing your own P&Ls, you shouldn't be getting a different answer.

>> Yeah. Right. >> P&L is a P&L. >> This year has been Yeah. This year has been more I've started painting as well as cleaning. So the price point has gone up. >> So you've had more revenue come in.

>> Yeah. Correct. >> All right. And even a few more expenses, but the net is more profit maybe. Okay.

>> So there that that's lesson number one.

Now when you make have a separate checking account for your business, the only money that goes into that checking account is money you earn from your services, the revenue from the business.

The only thing you write out of that account is expenses to run the business.

Nothing else. You don't buy groceries out of that account. You don't go out to eat out of that account. You don't go buy a car out of that account because you can't write that crap off. That's bull. Okay? You only put actual business

expenses.

Rent, payroll, if you're paying somebody else, >> cleaning supplies. >> Cleaning supplies. Apparently, you're in the cleaning business. paint, if you're buying paint, whatever those actual expenses are. Then what's left, income

minus expenses, that is the P&L. It's also happens to be your checkbook register. And what's left in there is called cash basis accounting. And that is your actual profit. When you take some of that profit home out of that account, you should set aside a fourth of it.

>> Yes. >> For taxes.

every single time you pull money out of the business, you should set aside a fourth of it over into a separate savings account for taxes because you're supposed to pay quarterly estimates on your profits. And if you do not, they hit you with a large butt penalty,

>> which you're getting hammered right now the way you're doing this. That's why I'm so leaning on you, okay? Because you're getting killed >> by your by by this tiny lack of sophistication. Okay? So you've got to separate the business and then business expenses and business income. What's left is profit. How much when I bring profit home that is what will help me buy a house and you can't make that number up in order to buy better more quickly buy a house because there's no madeup expenses

that you're not taking. You have to take all your expenses. There's no reason to pay a bunch of taxes and not claim your profit or expenses to to hide from the

government that you're not pro profitable. So, you pay more taxes so you get a mortgage you can't afford.

>> Yeah. I don't Yeah, I've seen so many behaviors. I've been on it this past six months. >> I I realize that um that's what's going to be happening. And so, I guess >> I'm I'm sorry, Sher. I don't want to be mean or anything, but you ain't on it.

>> Okay. >> What you've described to me is chaotic.

You might have been paying some on your taxes, but you're what what I what I

just described to you is the way to do this. >> Is that how you do it, Cheryl? The way he just talked about it, though. Do you have everything separated out?

>> Yes, I do now. I wasn't before. I wasn't before. Person just kind of saying, "Yes, I am now." >> So, how much are you taking out of your business account? How much are you paying yourself per month?

>> Profit? Um, it's around it's around four or 5,000 after all the cost labor and everything. That's great. >> That's what you qualify for a house with. >> Yes. >> There's no way to hide and pretend like

you make more money than you actually make. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not responsibly. Okay.

>> And make sure you're paying your quarterly. Now, we got $4,000 a month.

That's $48,000 a year. We need 16,000 by April 15th.

>> Yeah. >> 48,000 a year. We only got a half a year left. So that's 24,000 and you need

16,000. Have you got any other income your family eats on?

>> Uh, no. No. I am sole provider. It's me

and my son. Well, there's a whole other story about my >> You're the only This income is all you have to eat on.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Cuz you're not going to make but $24,000 if you stay at $4,000 a month between now and April 15th, right?

That's why we're painting.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> How much are you making per month off that?

>> I have them together right now. Uh but the price point for a space that I would get cleaned like 12. Do I need to start a separate painting business?

>> No. No. You can It's It can all go in there as long as all the expenses for it come out of there. And And so you're right. The answer to the equation is you need to make more money between now and April or you're not going to have 16,000 and eat.

>> Yeah. with the numbers you're giving >> like when they gave you that bill, you have to pay it like right then or >> Yeah. No, honey, you were already supposed to have paid it. You're already late cuz you're supposed >> No, the 16,000. It's a quarterly estimate that she hadn't paid.

>> She should have been paying $4,000.

>> No, I don't think she was doing quarterly estimates. I think she was doing >> She has to. I know she >> But she's not. I know. >> So, she's already late. The quarterly estimates aren't paid. It's unpaid quarterly estimates. So, you're already late. So, you're already going to get penalized. So, I'd start doing my get with your uh CPA and start doing quarterly estimates now. That's a good start. Well, that's just for 25. Gez,

you got 24 still.

[Music]

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Thank you. Dalton is with us in South Carolina.

How are you?

>> I'm doing good Dave. How about yourself?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay, so my question is, I'm wondering if I'm crazy for thinking about doing a

career change right after completing baby step two.

>> Okay. So, a little bit of a little bit of background. I'm 25 years old. Um, and

I work at my local Ford dealership here in my town. And, um, I'm at the

highest possible salary that this company will allow me to get. Um, and I don't know whether it's the job or the place, but I'm just

I I am very irritated with this company.

And so, >> well, it's the place. You just said it,

>> right? But, um, my question is, I just paid off uh finished paying off my last $4,700 from >> Baby Step 2 doesn't have anything to do with it. What do you make?

>> I make 87 $87,000 a year before taxes.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 25. >> What do you do? Sell cars?

>> I'm a I'm a No, I'm a um service technician. >> Oh, okay. All right. Well, I mean, is there have you investigated working for someone else? Will they pay more?

>> I I have I've gone to a couple of other places, but the issue with that is all of the other dealerships are 45 minutes plus from my house.

>> Do you own your house? >> Now, I'm about Well, the only piece

that's the only amount of debt that I have is my mortgage. >> So, you own the house. Okay. You have a mortgage. Are you married?

>> I am not. >> Okay. And so what would you make at the other place that you investigated?

>> Um, it depends on which dealership I go to. I've gotten the same amount or two or 3,000 more over where I'm at now.

>> Per month or year?

>> Year. >> Okay. How bad do you want to be away from these people? Sell your house and move >> it.

I guess I'm just I guess I let myself get too comfortable and that's >> I said I said how bad do you want to be away from these people? I just asked you. I mean, do you want to be a bad do you want to be bad enough away from them to drive 45 minutes or sell your house and move closer to the 45minute change and make a tiny bit more money do the same thing you already love doing but for people that you like?

>> And is that the career change you're talking about, Dalton, is moving companies or are you wanting to switch careers completely?

I'm wanting to switch careers completely. >> What do you want to do? This >> What do you want to do? >> I'm looking to go I'm looking to go from automotive to aviation >> mechanic.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, what >> or or or or a pilot depending on which which ways >> I'm leaning more I'm leaning more towards technician.

>> Okay. So, what do you have to have? Is anything required of you to change? Is

there schooling? Is there classes? What do you What do you have to do? I I would have to go back to school to get a air airframe and power plant certification.

>> Okay. So, how much does that cost?

>> Um, when I look at the tuition, I would have to move up to Greenville to do it.

So, that was that was going to be I think between 20 and $25,000 and I had

the ability to cash flow it.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And what does what does an aircraft mechanic make >> down here in Colia? The >> Are you going to move back after you get it?

It depends on where I can get a job at.

Down here in Colombia, it's right around 65 to right where I'm at now to about 90. But if I go to say Charlotte or go to Atlanta, it can get up into 150 160 range. Great. >> So, it's all depending on where I can go. >> Okay. >> No, no, no. Where you choose to go.

>> Right. Where I choose to go. >> Yeah. Okay. No, I would not go spend

$25,000 in two years of my life to make $25,000 a year less.

That's dumber than a rock. Of course, you wouldn't do that.

>> Okay, >> come on, man. I mean, that doesn't make sense. But would I would I go spend that and go move into a different career and change cities and make 150, make 50 $60,000 more than I have now, and sky's the limit, and you you learn a whole new craft, and now you're certified in two different types of uh service, which is not only uh car vehicles and cars, but it's also aircraft. Absolutely. I'd go do that.

>> And that's that's what my that's what my plan is. Yeah, life is a grand adventure. Put your house on the market. Move to Greenville. Let's go, man.

Get your certification, then move your butt to Charlotte or Atlanta or whatever it is you need to do and go make some bucks. >> Mhm. >> And uh but no, I'm not going to retreat.

And that's why I say it's not a baby step two thing in baby step anything. If

you can go make more money tomorrow and you want to do it, go do it. >> Go do it. Yeah. you you don't have to wait to go make more money that you you

know but but usually when somebody asks us questions because I want to make less money and no I'm not going to endorse that not because I'm all about money but because you can usually make more money doing something you're good at and you love than you can doing something you hate with people that are toxic. So generally speaking and this idea that I in order to be happy I have to make less money that's passwords. No, in order to be happy I need to make more money. Hello. That's just crazy y'all. So, um,

it's like, I need to work for a nonprofit because it's holy. No, it's not. >> It's not any more holy than a prophet.

>> That's that's just silliness.

>> A prophet. >> A forprofit. >> Oh, I thought you meant like >> the prophet. I don't know. Whichever prophet, but any kind of prophet. Some kind of prophet. God help me with prophet. But yeah. All right. There we go. That's what I'm doing. Dalton. Yeah.

I would go live your dream, but dude, make your dream a dream, not a nightmare. Lay it out where where it's, you know, up and to the right. >> Makes sense. Yes.

>> Up and to the right, baby. up and to the right. Go be somebody. Do it, man.

I like it. And uh the cool thing is you got this house you can sell. Probably going to get some money out of that and that's what's going to help him catch. >> Well, and you're only 24.

So I'm like, you go do this for a few years. Maybe when you're 30. We just met someone that's going to be a pilot. She's going to she wants to fly for Delta.

We just met her in the lobby. Yep. Young girl, you know, and you get to maybe make a decision in 10 years to go do that, right? So just keep on dreaming.

But yes, don't be uh >> don't make the math go backwards to pay money to make the math go backwards.

>> No, now that gives me a lot of peace.

>> It does, actually. I mean, it's like, yeah, something happens, you can run out there on the wing and fix it, right?

>> That would be that would be ideal. Don't

know if that's reality, but it's good, Dalton. It's good. >> Oh, well, Darren's with us. Hi, Darren in Madison, Wisconsin. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

So, me and my husband are in baby step two. So far, we have paid up paid off

about $215,000.

>> Yay. >> Good job.

>> Yeah. In the last 22 months.

>> Way to go.

>> Yeah. And we are going to be able to pay off the remaining of my stu husband's student loans by the end of this year, which is about 92,000 left.

>> Amazing. and me and my husband sat down and we're like, "Okay, what's next?" And we

currently own a home, but we're not living in it because my husband's company um has moved us to a new location and

they pay for all of our housing expenses. So, we have a lot of extra

money to throw around and we're like, >> "By new location, do you mean different city?" >> Uh different states about every six months. >> Okay. And you kept one of the homes back in the other place and by default have become a landlord, not by strategy.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd sell that.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Long-distance landlording is not really a good plan. I mean, if you're sitting in Madison, Wisconsin, and said, "Where's this house located?" >> Just over the border in the Twin Cities.

So, it's not a long drive. And we have family there. >> Yeah. But I mean if you if you were sitting here Madison Wisconsin with the situation you've got and said we're going to buy a rental house.

You probably wouldn't have bought it over there. >> Okay. >> You got it by default. That's what I mean.

You backed into this instead of walked into it. And so it generally ends up being a bad decision. So I'm generally going to sell it. I own a bunch of rental property.

Love rental property. Don't have any long-distance rental property.

[Music]

[Music]

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and get your Ramsay goal planner for 2026 before they're gone. I know it's hard to believe, isn't it? Trey is in Florida.

Hi, Trey. How are you?

>> I'm great. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Not too much. Hey, um, so I got a question for you. I uh probably back in

let's say January I bought a motorcycle for $15,000 and um in May I got in a

motorcycle wreck and broke my wrist and

ankle and I recovered and doing well.

>> Good. I'm glad you've been through that after. No, no, no problem. I mean it's what you what you get into when you hop on a bike, I guess. >> Yeah. Um, but I'm kind of now realizing

it wasn't a very smart decision and um I'm kind of in the hole with it. So, originally it was 15,754 and I've made six payments or possibly more, but I'm right at 15,000 payoff.

Uh, the bike's worth about 11,000.

>> They tear up the bike.

>> So, the bike all all that happened was the quick shifter and the body panels need to be replaced. So, all that has been done and it's back to normal. So, the bike's in excellent condition >> now. It's back to excellent condition and and it's lost four it's lost a third of its value in 6 months.

>> Correct.

>> So, I'm trying to figure out what the best route is. I'm >> What kind of crap is this?

>> What kind of bike is this?

>> It's a crotch rock. It says the ZX6R 2023. >> That's horrible.

>> Correct, >> man. Are you sure that's what Who said that's what the bike's worth?

Um, just like when you get it from a dealer, that's that's about the price average of what you look online and find it find it at >> from a dealership though. If you did a an individual sale, you could probably get 2,000 more for it

>> because dealerships are going to buy it at cost. So, >> absolutely, >> it could go up a little bit, but >> Okay. So, you're you're two to $4,000 in the hole depending on how we calculate this, right? >> Correct. >> Who do you owe the money to?

Um, it's going to be Road Road Runner Financial Solo Company.

>> The the motorcycle finance company where you bought it, >> correct? >> Yeah. Okay. And how old are you?

>> 23. >> I assume you have no money.

>> No, I mean I do have an emergency fund.

>> How much? >> Um, I'm uh 4,000.

>> Oh, sell a bike.

>> Correct. I just >> What's the question? I guess I I guess I'm just like, is it okay to just drain the entire savings into the day?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. You want to know what's draining?

You know what's draining your savings?

That stupid bike >> paying interest >> sitting in the garage going down in value like a rocket.

>> Absolutely. >> No pun intended.

>> Absolutely. I agree.

>> Yeah. Got to I mean, the sooner we cut bait, the sooner this fish is gone, man.

>> Yeah. write a check, be done with I mean like by Friday, man, >> you have a new goal and then and then go replenish your savings because you don't have a stupid motorcycle payment and a stupid motorcycle going down in value like a rocket, >> right? >> I guess that'll that'll be the plan. >> Yeah.

I mean, you got two things, two reasons motivating you to drain your savings because you you put your savings right back because this thing's doing more damage to you than being down to broke. And then, you know, be work be planning on working like all the OT and all the side hustles and everything else you can the next 3 weeks put your money back really super fast which will keep you from having another mistake which is having some kind of event going to be another 4,000. >> Yeah.

>> And then Trey, what I would do is this.

Um one of the things when something costs me money and I've done a lot of stupid things, a lot of dumber things than this. Okay, this is not super dumb. It's just dumb. But I mean, I've done super dumb. So, anytime I do that and I have to learn a painful lesson, so you got like three painful lessons here at once.

Um, I want I want to write them down. I want to know what they are so I don't have to do them again. If I do something dumb again, it needs to be something a new dumb thing that I've never done before. I don't want to do the same dumb things over. So, I try to figure out from an autopsy standpoint what happened here. Okay? And I'll walk you through it. Here's the way I would do this. If I were in your shoes, I would say, "Okay,

mistake number one. I was impulsive

and bought this thing while I had motorcycle fever. I should

have calmed down, taken a cold shower,

and waited overnight or waited two weeks and not bought this bike at all." And if I was thinking with more wisdom and less passion and less immaturity, I wouldn't have bought the bike. And that's what I would say to myself if I looked up because I've done that very similar thing.

>> Um I bought a truck one time. It was a

similar situation. I just drove up on the lot. I like the truck and I just bought it. And about three months later, I hated that stupid truck and I lost like two grand on it. I mean, it's just it's same thing, right? But it's impulsive as hell. I'm just ridiculous.

All right. So then um second thing is um

uh uh uh I need to understand that things that have motors and wheels go down in value and I can't finance them

because they go down in value and you get stuck in them. Okay. Um and uh there

was a third one but I don't remember what it is now. What in the world is that? Anyway, just figure out what your lessons are from this so you don't do them again. The biggest thing you did was you were just impulsive.

>> And you you you you didn't give any more thought to this than buying a bag of Fritos. I mean, you just said, "Yeah, hot Cheetos. Let's get something right." I mean, you just This thing's a crotch rocket. Here we go. Boom. This is cool.

I'm going be a cool guy if I had this cool bike. And I bought a cool bike.

>> Well, he did get in a wreck and got hurt. So, >> and then you laid it down. Yeah. You laid it down. Yeah. >> Let's find some safer hobbies. I don't know.

>> I'm not a fan. >> That was That was mother Rachel mother.

Find a safer hobby. Every nurse will tell you stay away from them.

>> Yeah, it's uh >> that's that's the motherly comment for you, Trey. >> Yeah, for sure. For sure. But anyway, that that figure out what in the world is going on. And I I think it's always good for us to look back and go, okay, if I'm writing a check for stupid tax because I'm paying some tax for being stupid. What What What do I do so I never have to write that check again?

>> And you can you can really go back and go, man, I learned a valuable lesson when I was 23 years old. And you could be telling your 23-y old this.

>> I'm assuming it was brand new. I mean, I don't know how much they cost, but for the fact that it went down.

>> That's the third thing. >> Don't buy. >> You bought a bike without realizing that it was an absolutely crummy >> bike. >> Mhm. >> In terms of how fast it's going to go down in value. I mean, ridicul I I mean,

there there's a lot of horrible car deals you can do, but when you lose 30% of the value of something in six months,

>> that's in the sucks column, like the super sucks column. I mean, it's over there, right? This is nutto. And so, you go, okay, you you look that kind of thing up before you buy it, >> and you go, okay, I I don't I think that

might change my life. Buy a six-month old bike for 11,000 and let someone else take the >> oney old bike at this rate for 5,000. Oh my gosh. >> Let someone else take the hit.

>> Yeah. And pay cash for it. And then if you lay it down and you're upside down, at least it's in the garage and you know you can deal with it, right? It's a different situation.

So all of those things are there. But hey, learn, in other words, learn your lesson. That's not picking on you, Trey. I'm just kind of setting up that decision-making framework and that wisdom building thing because the old saying is the the reporter went up to the old uh guy on the porch who was known for being wise and he was in his 90s and he said, "Uncle Zed, how did you become so wise?" He said, "I got experience." He said, "Where'd you get experience from not being wise?" And that that's what I you know, I always want to learn every time so that by the time I get older, I do fewer and fewer and fewer dumb things.

And so it accelerates my wealth building.

[Music]

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[Music]

Mia is in Georgia. Hi Mia. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes. So, um, my husband and I have been married for 13 years and, um, I got a

hold of your book, um, total money makeover and, um, the part about join,

you know, having a joint account. Um, we have never had a joint account since we've been married. >> And, uh, I finally was able to sit down with my husband and, you know, tell him the reasons for it because even at that time, our marriage was getting, it was pretty difficult, pretty challenging and we just weren't in unity, you know, with our finances. But when I when I sat down with him, he said, "That's fine. We can

have a joint account, but we should still keep our separate accounts." Uh he's afraid that if we put it all into one account, u something, you know, like fraudulent material, um fraudulent or, you know, scammer could happen.

>> Bull crap. >> Then something would happen to >> absolute bull crap.

>> That's ridiculous. He doesn't really believe that.

I hope not. But I know it's a trust issue. >> Yeah, that's what it is.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I I know I haven't been

always responsible with my money, but I don't think I've done anything that's like completely irresponsible that's gotten both of us in trouble. But um you

know, for me, I told him I was like, it would give us at least a vision, you know, for what we want to do. Set some goals perhaps. And you could see I could see the total picture. I honestly didn't even know where money was going because

we never I could never see it. You know, it was never in one place. So, I don't know how I could convince him that we need we need to do this to be in unity

to, you know, >> I think I think you're very articulate and you're voicing this fabulously.

Personally, >> Mia, what would be the concerns he has about you? You said, "I haven't been perfect at it, but nothing like crazy." But what would be the things that he may not trust you with? Is it that you spend more than him? that you're more of a free spirit. Like what are the what are the the things that he would feel like

maybe you're not as quote unquote responsible as he has? I'm not saying that's true, but I am wondering right >> what he would say. >> Well, I mean these are his words. He said to me, "I don't want to intermingle my money with you um because of my

spending." And most of my spending comes from like eating out, you know. Um I

tend to to do that more than he does. He cooks at home, you know. Um, but I don't go on shopping spreees. I don't, you know, I might spend a little bit. >> So, let's let's stop a second then. Then there's an easy fix for that. Okay. So, the way that we teach, and you can tell him this, um, that solves that, is we

together put together a budget every month where every one of the dollars that are coming into this house from both of us >> have a name and are allocated to

something going back out. That would include Mia going out to eat >> and that would include our hitting our goals and that would include achieving some things that we want to do together.

It would include some of the things he is now doing with money that he frankly probably doesn't want to report to you on and he needs to.

>> Um that's he's not bringing that up, but that's there. >> Um he's doing a few little things here or there while he's shaming you that um that he doesn't want everybody to know about. Nothing nothing illegal and nothing crazy, but just little stuff.

Okay? Like he's spending more at the Coke machine than he wants to tell everybody he does, >> as an example or something like that. I don't know. He's buying he's buying some little thing at uh a little part for his gun or something. I don't know whatever it is, right? But um aside from that, now every dollar has a name and we have full transparency, full disclosure. Oh, and honey, nothing's going to happen with any of this money that you didn't preapprove.

>> And by the way, nothing's going to happen with any of this money that I didn't preapprove because it's all going to be written down. And then we're going to do what was written down. And so

unless you approve me being irresponsible with money, there won't be any irresponsibility with money.

>> Right? You see how that works mechanically? >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> The second thing then is to pan back and say, why does this matter ultimately?

Okay. Mhm. >> Because when we surveyed, the actual data tells us that when we surveyed 10,167 millionaires and did detailed research on them, we found that 89% of them,

that's nine out of 10, all of them just

about, said that one of the reasons they were able to become millionaires is because of working together,

very detailed, together with a cooperative spouse.

When we survey the general public, we find that less than 40% of them work together and they have no money. So the data says

that it's a wealth building tool and you increase your probability of wealth building substantially like over double

chance. Well, that's like one of the pros of getting married in a dual income household is you you guys have more in the pot to say we have more money to do things with like invest and give and spend and all of it. And Mia, the other thing is um that we find and and I'm

sure it's said in the book total money makeover, but even for you guys like you said at one point like our marriage wasn't in a great spot. you know, this

this activity, if you will, exercise,

>> yes, exercise is is something that's very unifying because it's very vulnerable. And I will give it to him that for 13 years of doing something and changing it. It may not just be a one-time talk and he's like, "Absolutely." Right? Like this may kind of be an ongoing discussion for a bit.

Um, and there is a level of of deep vulnerability and trust there, right?

You're kind of like exposing this part of yourself that you that you haven't.

And that's how a lot of married couples live. It's like they have this autonomy of themselves. You know, it's separate, but yet we have chosen to be married, which means we have chosen to do life with someone >> and I want to do life with you and in a deeper way because our money exposes our

values and it exposes what we are scared about. It exposes, you know, triggers that happen with something. And then you get to have a conversation with your spouse about that so that you actually get to talk and get to know them. like there's a you know there's a deep unraveling that happens and um and money

is a is a filter at which that occurs and so for you guys to be in the same lane and to work together not only financially do you guys get ahead but also relationally and I would say that to him too Mia and say I just long >> it'll help you heal a marriage >> yeah I long to to do this marriage in a deeper more beautiful unified way and this is a symbol of that right because you're taking the thing that you want to hold the tightest >> and you're opening your hand to your spouse and saying, "Okay, we're we're going to do this together." And >> um >> I don't know.

And there and there will still be conflict, you know? I mean, there's still things that come up and that's fine, but it actually gives you the opportunity to solve it.

>> And so, there is something about understanding that that that grows a marriage, too. So, I would if that's your desire, I would communicate that part of your heart as well.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. And I I'll go along with you, Rachel. the um we've had almost 10 million families now go through Financial Peace University since I started doing it 30 years ago. And the

number of times is is amazing to me that people come up to me over the years and have said, "Hey, your financial class saved our marriage." I mean, it it's And then I actually when I started hearing that enough, I was kind of confused because I'm like, "You went the wrong class. The sex class is down the hall. I mean, what the I mean, that's just weird." And um they're like, "No, no, really. You forced us to work to talk about life because we had to to

do the stupid budget you were making us do." >> And um and when we talked about life, it

did more good than the marriage counselor we were going to because it forced us to align our dreams and our values. It forced us to have conflict.

It forced us to do those things and work through those things just to get to this goal of being debtree. And in the process, lots of little wrinkles were ironed out of our marriage or we were on the rocks and about to bulk off and this saved us. >> And it wasn't that I saved them. I didn't. >> And it really wasn't even that the budget saved them. It was the fact that they sat down together and for the first time aligned their futures.

>> Yes. >> And paid and what price we're going to have to pay to get to that future.

>> Yeah. That's right. >> Yeah. It's interesting.

It is the most hate. One of the subjects that we get the most hate on is this or at least I do like >> I get hate on a lot of things but >> Oh well yeah yeah but it is it is something that is so it is fascinating because and people will message me or comment about this like well we just kept fighting so we just decided to do separate accounts and now we just don't fight anymore and I'm like those are the that's the exact fight in marriage you need to be having. >> Well I mean yeah let's bury all of that because that is a high rate of resurrection.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. We're going to call that zombie feelings when they come back up. I mean, my god, >> they will come.

They will come. >> Yeah. It's just going to blow up someday. You're not going to know what happened.

It's like a geyser. >> I know. >> Push through the hard.

>> We're just going to We're just going to ignore this and pretend like it's not there and like it's never going to come back. You've got to be kidding me.

>> That's a lot of people.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Donovan is in San Jose, California. Hey, Donovan. What's up?

>> Hey, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so my wife and I currently invest about 43% of our income and she wants to

take a trip to Europe next year. So I was wondering if uh that is something that we should look at doing uh reducing our investment rate in order to take that trip.

>> Okay. Are you guys out of debt?

>> We are out of debt. We are debtree.

>> Good. And what's your household income, sir?

>> Uh so this year we should net about 175.

>> And what's your net worth?

>> Uh it's around 89,000.

>> 89,000.

Yes.

>> With a $175,000 income and a 40% investment rate.

>> Yes. So, my wife and I uh we basically

finished our education uh as of last year and we paid our way all through school. >> Oh, okay.

>> Yeah. So, this is like our first year of actually making a real income.

>> So, you're both now making good money for the first time ever. And you get to live your dream of investing and she gets to live her dream of traveling and that's in conflict. Now it makes sense.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. And what do you guys do for a living?

>> Um, so I identify as a janitor and my

wife is a uh ABA therapist.

>> Okay. You just finished your education

and I'm sorry, did I misunderstand you?

I identify as a janitor. Is that what you said?

>> Um, so basically I have profit sharing with uh a company uh directly under the

owners. Um, so my official title would be COO, but um, honestly I I have to do

a lot of different things.

>> Well, welcome to being the COO. But I mean, what do you make what do you make a year, Mr. Janitor?

>> Um, so I make about 80,000 a year.

>> Okay. All right. That's funny.

Okay, I identify. Oh my lord. All right,

that's cute. Uh, all right. Uh, what's

the trip to Europe cost?

>> Uh, so we actually went to Europe uh for

our honeymoon, which was generously uh gifted to us by the business owners. Um,

but uh when they paid for it, it was around $25,000.

And uh how much we budget towards this

trip would probably look around 18 to 20

from what I've been looking at. >> Yeah. All right. Okay.

>> Do you guys have any money saved? >> Yeah. >> He's got $89,000 net worth in your >> cash net worth, but I don't even know what that means. Is that in retirement?

Like is that cash? What What is that?

>> Yeah. So, um about 16,000 is in a Roth

IRA. Um about 6,000 is in my wife's

401k.

Um, I have 35,000 in a cash brokerage account and then we have about $25,000

in uh high yield savings account.

>> Okay. >> And how old are you guys?

>> Uh, so I'm 31 and my wife is 28.

>> Okay, cool. Well, Donovan, I love this.

This is a great approach to the question. Thank you. And it just took us a minute to find out where you guys really are because there's so many assumptions I could make when I see on my screen my wife wants to go to Europe and I want to save 40%. And I was getting ready to call you Scrooge McDuck or something, but um but I don't think I don't think you are.

I think you're just getting started and you have you're a serious guy who wants to hit some numbers and your wife is serious about enjoying some of this hard work. And so those are fair both of them are fair things to do with money. Both both arguments are. And so I I I don't think I would slap my fist on the table and declare either one of these answers to be stupid.

Okay.

it off a little is it's 40% of your income is going into retirement. So we we do tell people systematically throughout the scope of your life, whether this year or next year, I would go to Europe because systematically throughout the scope of your life, you need to constantly rhyth with a rhythm

be enjoying your money, investing your money, and being generous with your money. If you consistently with a rhythm do all three of those things, all the data that we have and all the experience we have of decades of doing this tells us that you're going to not only become wealthy, but also be very relationally

healthy and have a high likelihood of physical health, too, as by the way, weirdly enough. Um, and so all of those things go together when you're doing all three of those things. So to say, "No, always save money and live in a cave, collect lint, and only come out on triple coupon Thursday." No, we don't believe that. We think you live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. It feels like to me you guys have paid a price of

sacrifice to get the education under your belt and to get to this point to get started.

Your reward on the price is saving and investing because that gives you a high.

her reward is the travel and the fun and

both are legitimate.

>> And you can do both, Donovan. That's the that's the great thing because of your income, because where you guys are.

>> Um yeah, you guys would be able to to save cash flow a trip to Europe and be saving. >> Yeah. So >> all together. So >> but you know, I'm probably going to negotiate, you know, as we're discussing this some tradeoffs here. Okay. If we do Europe this year, we really to be responsible only need to spend X. If we were to wait 18 months, we could spend Y. >> Yes. And I have a just a slight, you

know, not painting a broad stroke with this, but the fact that you guys just went to Europe >> anyway. >> Anyway, and she wants to go back. Like, I bet she does. I bet it's it's wonderful. That's great. But also, we can't be in a habit or a pattern of

doing this all the time. >> We we do. to Europe every two years >> because it's just going to continue to, you know, and if you have the money for it, you can, but I just I want to make sure the pattern is set and the contentment and all of that is is being talked about, too. Um, that it's not just this assumption, >> yeah, >> that this is what we're going to do all the time.

the two, a little rhythm, a little on and a little off is a better thing. and say, "Okay, if we do this, then we're not going to do another big trip for three years, and we're going to pile up and get this net worth going and and get some results so that we can do trips forever because I mean, if you keep doing the net worth thing, the trips are infinite later." >> Yeah. >> But but but if you don't if if you don't if you constantly are eating up the money constantly.

not be a pattern like Rachel says, and there needs to be a trade-off and go, okay, we spend X now or Y 18 months from

now, but in either case, we're probably not going to do, you know, once every five years until we hit a million dollar net worth. We're probably not going to do a bunch of big huge trips. That's a big trip. That's an expensive.

>> Well, and I'll say there's a group of girls that went um to Europe that we work with and they just got back and they did not they spent half of that and they were able to do a great fun trip. You know what I mean? So there's different degrees at which you can do a trip too. So >> yeah, >> throwing that out there, too.

>> Wouldn't argue that. Wouldn't argue that. Yeah. Um Yeah. So it it Yes. And

yes. Yeah. Sorry. I wish I could be more precise. Usually I'm devilishly um

precise, but on this one, I'm going to be philosophical a little bit and let you kind of learn the rhythm idea between these three things of generosity and fun and investing. generosity and

fun and investing and then ratios of

those things that allow them all to occur reasonably.

[Music]

[Music]

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Kathy in Arizona. I've been a health care worker for many years and became close to a patient while she was in the hospital.

That was 23 years ago and we've stayed friends since. She's now 92 years old and a widow. She has a son and a daughter who don't live by currently or don't live nearby. She has been estranged from her daughter, aranged by from her daughter for almost 15 years.

Her son calls periodically to check in on her. She recently revised her will to

remove her daughter and put me second in line if something were to happen to her son first. Should I be worried that her daughter could come after me legally?

She has not told either of her children about the will details. I want to help her, but I feel like I'm getting in the middle of family drama. What are your thoughts? >> You feel like you're getting in the middle of family drama because you are in the middle of family drama.

That's why it feels that way. >> Yes. Wow. >> So, no.

Legally, no. She can't come after you. If there's a will in place, >> you haven't done anything wrong. >> Yeah.

She she can't >> you haven't done anything wrong. >> But I would encourage her to talk to her kids about this. >> Yeah. I I would go further than that.

because >> would you say no to it? >> I would say I don't want this unless you have told both of your children.

>> Which would involve her talking to her daughter that she hadn't talked to in 15 years. So she's not going to do it. But I just because let me just tell you I I

would tell you there's a 100% chance that you're going to be involved in drama.

Did you do anything legally or ethically or morally wrong? No. None of those things. But that doesn't mean you're not going to end up defending yourself or the daughter's going to come in and file suit and say, you know, you mom wasn't competent and this nurse took advantage of her and try to call you out on medical ethics >> or something like that. And none of that is true based on what you've told us, Kathy. And it doesn't I mean also it's been 23 years. So that you know, but um

you know this is um it's a it's a sweet gesture by a lady who doesn't do conflict.

This lady is a sweet. She doesn't want to deal with her daughter, but she doesn't want to leave her daughter anything. So, she wants to take one last poke at her from the grave, you know, and it's just like, nah, I I really don't want to be in that. I'm sorry. Um,

if you know, 100% chance there's going to be drama. The only question is how much?

>> Yeah. >> I mean, just >> Okay, here's a really shallow question.

Does it matter the amount to you?

>> Is there amount that's worth the drama?

>> That's I guess that's an individual choice. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, if there's $20 million, you know, there's Let me tell you, I I would tell you this. Here's here's a interesting answer to that. I'm just making this up because it's a fun question. I appreciate it.

>> Um, the more money there is, the more

drama there's going to be.

>> That's probably true. Sure.

>> Yeah. If she's leaving her $62 and her snow globes, um, your snow village,

>> the daughter, the daughter's going to go, "Good luck with that, Mom." You know, crispy, extra crispy where you're going. If it's 20 million, she's going to be coming. If >> it's 20 million, the daughter is going to be going medical ethics and dreaming up anything else she can dream up. And this this nurse has hypnotized her 23

years ago and stolen my mother away. And you know, I mean, you're going to hear all you're going to hear all that. But the more money, the more drama.

>> Yeah, for sure. I think that's true.

Drama is already here. Drama has announced itself. It's got an engraved invitation to the party. Uh the only question is how much it's going to show out. And I I would say in ratio to the amount of money. >> So, uh I think that's right. But now, how much do I want to get involved? How shallow am I in that regard?

>> That's a good question because I mean, you know, honestly, I don't want a lot of drama in ratio to the money.

>> Mhm. >> So, um and and so if it's $67 and four

snow globes, I don't want to be involved at all. >> Yeah. For sure. No. >> And so, it's not worth it at all. And but you know if the only time you you would think about it is if there was more money. I don't guess that's shallow. I guess it's practical.

>> Well, I just >> I'm going to have to put up with some crap. Is it worth it?

>> Right. Right. That's the question.

>> And again, we don't know it all, but I mean I the story, you know, there could be a story that that she's I mean, who knows? some multi-millionaire sweet kind

woman and this nurse has befriended her, been kind to her, has kids of her own, and this and that's how this 92-year-old wants to leave her legacy. Um, >> I don't think it's a problem. I don't think you've done anything morally or ethically or legally wrong, but that doesn't mean you won't defend have to defend it. >> Yeah, you're going to be in some drama if you have to defend it. So, >> yeah, but I I would encourage her >> to talk to the family about it.

>> In America, you can sue anyone for anything. You can just make it up.

>> Yep. >> If it's not true, you can just say a bunch of stuff and put it in the pleading and file a lawsuit. Happens all the time, boys and girls.

>> Good luck, Kathy. Let us know.

>> Oh, wow. What a mess. Emma's in

Washington. Hi, Emma. What's up?

>> Hi there. Um, we just found out that I'm

pregnant about a week ago with our fourth child. Very exciting.

>> Congratulations.

Um, we currently have a 2003 Honda

Odyssey and my husband has a commuter car. Um, so the Odyssey will obviously fit us. Um, but it's pretty old. Um, and

it started to have some transmission issues a few months ago. Um, and we are

looking at buying a house. We don't own a house yet. We're really saving hard so we can buy a house. My question is, should we try to replace the minivan

with a more reliable minivan, a newer

one, or just go hard at saving for a

house and kind of deal with the minivan breaking after the fact?

>> I mean, it's what, a 22year-old >> Mhm. >> van. >> I would probably replace the van >> if I'm if I'm you. If I have I mean I have three kids and if I was expecting another one, there's a level of stability if you can cash flow it. Um

and I mean I wouldn't go get a brand new one, but you could go find, you know, a 2015 >> for, you know, $14,000 or something. Um

I would probably do that, especially if you guys have ongoing issues. I just wouldn't want car maintenance issues all the time with four little kids.

>> Yeah. if you have the ability.

>> The challenge though, um my because my husband, he's a private school teacher.

Um he makes about $63,000 a year. Um so

14K for a car is way out.

>> Well, haven't y'all been saving for a house? >> Yes. >> So how much do you have in that account?

>> We have $11,000 right now.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> So we're still about 18 months out before we can really even look >> for a house. Yes. And that's if you don't take any of this cash to replace the van. >> If you got if you got it fixed, how how much longer do you think it could hold?

>> Hold on to >> No, it's 23 years old.

>> Yeah, I'm 28, so it's almost as old as me. Um, yeah. I don't know. I think we

probably have a year and a half, two years left. We don't go on super long drives or anything like that. Um, and I homeschool. We stay home most of the time, but it's just iffy.

>> Mhm.

If you bought the house and kept the van, you have to keep a fully funded emergency fund for when the band breaks.

>> Is that 3 months or 6 months? Uh, >> I'm probably going with six.

>> Okay. >> Because you're going to have to, you said the transmission's slipping and that's going to be an expensive repair at some point. It's probably cheaper than buying another van, but it's still going to be an expensive repair. So, you cannot get down to the nub and use up all your cash >> to buy the house and have no money and then the van breaks 3 weeks later.

>> Mhm. >> That's for sure. We're not doing that.

Okay. >> Emma, is the 11,000 the only money y'all have saved or do you have a separate account for for emergencies? >> For an emergency?

>> No, that's our emergency fund.

>> Oh, it is. >> Oh, so you don't have any down payment fund? >> Not yet. No, that's the struggle.

>> Okay. There's no struggle. Finally, >> there's no struggle. We're having a hypothetical. It's not going to occur.

>> You're not buying either one.

>> Okay. >> You don't clean out your emergency fund and upgrade the car. And you don't clean out your emergency fund and buy a house.

>> Okay. >> You don't have $11,000. That changes the story. >> Yeah. >> Sorry. No. Oh, I mean I I I want the I want the family protected by the emergency fund first, then we talk about moving up in car and cash. We talk about payments $63,000 income. You know, it it

it will be a few years for you guys to purchase that. And that's okay. I wouldn't rush >> to do either one. Yeah. Yeah.

[Music]

[Music]

Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to figure out to find a pros

that is to help you figure out um what

to do. I mean, some of these pros are just looking to make a buck and then there's a good ones that actually know their stuff and put your interest at heart. With a Ramsay trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with a sleazy or slimy insurance person.

They're all interviewed, vetted, coached to make sure they're market experts, and have your best interests at heart. Go to ramseolutions.com/coage and find the type of insurance you're looking for. connect with a Ramsey trusted agent and you can click the link in the description if you want. Jimmy is with us. Jimmy is in Arizona. Hi Jimmy, how are you?

>> I'm good. I would ask how you're doing, but I assume it's better than you deserve. >> Some things are natural. What's up, man?

>> Um, so my question is that my girlfriend and I are doing uh married people stuff, but we aren't married and uh we do want to get married committed to each other.

Um, but we are on baby step two. Now, my

question is, how do I afford things like a ring or, you know, a wedding and things like that if all my money is supposed to be going towards my debt?

>> Well, how much debt have you got?

>> Well, we've got 87,000 currently down.

>> I'm sorry. Let's let's stop the we thing a minute. Um, how much debt do you have?

>> Personally, I am in $61,000 of debt.

>> Okay. And so, she has about 20some.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. 26.

Yeah. Okay. >> 26. Yep. And your 61 is what?

>> Is personal loan >> to who? >> A bank. >> My parents. >> Your parents? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> They're um they're fairly affluent. So

um they offered to help me out and I'm paying them back with some interest.

>> Okay. Help you out with what? What were you doing >> with like paying off my debt and moving on to the next stage in my life and trying to all this? >> So they paid your debt and now you owe them. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you didn't really pay off your debt. You just moved it to your parents. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> Okay. All right. And so, what was your debt on?

>> It was It was originally just bunch of

crap, like things that I didn't need, tents around my house, which maybe I needed, but um other things.

>> Okay. Do you own a home?

>> Yes, I do. >> Okay. Uh is your girlfriend's name on the deed? >> No, not yet. >> What is your home worth? It's about 400,000. >> Very cool. How old are you?

>> I am 30. >> Oh, okay. All right. And uh what do you

owe on your home?

>> I owe 230,000.

>> Okay. Well, that's nice. Okay. And what do you make, sir?

>> I make 130 a year.

>> Okay. And um

so she makes what?

>> She makes 70 a year.

>> Okay, cool. All right. And she's around the same age. >> Yeah, she's 28. >> So when you're married, you have a $200,000 household income, a $400,000

house, and $87,000 worth of debt. If you got married tomorrow, that would be the together picture.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right.

Um, and you're living together is what you indicated, right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. How long?

>> It's been almost a year now.

>> Okay. All right. What is the uh dream

for the wedding?

>> Well, she's okay with going to the courthouse tonight and um I've got like

over 20 aunts and uncles and like over 30 cousins and I would like as many of them as I can afford to be there. Um but

>> Okay. All right. >> I'm not sure how to afford that.

>> Okay. And what is your personal take-home pay a month?

My personal take-home pay after taxes is uh $8,300.

>> Okay, good. Good. You're doing really well, sir. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Um you don't have any do you have any cash or any money that's not in retirement?

>> Um no, just my emergency fund.

>> How much is in your emergency fund?

>> Oh, sorry. This Well, it's $1,000 that you suggested. >> Okay. All right. It was the starter emergency fund. Okay. >> Yes. So, you have $1,000 and that's your entire money you have available.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right.

I'm asking a lot of questions because once I get the whole picture, I can say clearly what I would do knowing what I know now if I woke up in your shoes.

>> Okay. >> Right. >> Um, for sure I'm going to call the

preacher and go get married at the courthouse or in his office tomorrow.

Um, for sure. Or or in a month. Okay.

some somewhere in the next month. Um,

and then have a big party later.

>> Okay. After we clean up some of this debt because you got a great income to clean up some of the debt and you can have a big big reception, you know, even if it's 12 months from now. Okay.

Easily. And have the uncles and aunts and that kind of stuff because, you know, that that's um yeah, that that's what I would do for sure. Then the only question I've got is how much to spend on a ring and do I stop everything for uh a paycheck or two and get a three or $4,000 ring? And I probably would.

>> Okay. >> And I would do that this month and I'd get married, you know, the end of the month or the end of next month or whatever, something like that. Um and because then that allows you to combine all of your efforts >> safely and correctly and you'll be able to clear the debt faster. And as you said, you're already playing house. So, >> and you love her. You're gonna get married to her, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, just go do it. >> There was nothing in any of your sentence structure there was any hesitancy.

And that's what I was going on. >> Yeah. >> No, sir. >> Yeah.

We're not doing this so that we can combine money. We're doing it because you love each other. You know, you're going to get married, so go ahead and do it. >> Yeah.

Just got it out just got some stuff out of order. And so, let's get back. I also like you said, you know, in a different call a while ago, but I saw, you know, there's more buy in when we are married too, right? Is that she doesn't got to worry about me going anywhere.

I don't got to worry about her going anywhere.

Like as soon as I possibly can. So, I'm with you guys on that one.

>> Um,

how's her relationship with your affluent mom and dad?

>> That's great. They love her.

Um,

>> okay. >> Are mom and dad going to be pissed that you guys go to the courthouse and not have a big wedding?

>> Well, I did float the idea to my mom and she was a little like, "Oh, why would you do that?" >> Yeah. >> But I'm not I'm not too concerned. >> But your mom wants to have the party, too. But mom, we are going to have the party. We're just going to >> pay for the a fluent mom pay for the party. >> I was just That's where I was going. Why don't they pay for the wedding? they're all >> the wedding reception and um do it, you

know, even if you did it at Christmas and it was a few months after the actual quote unquote marriage.

>> But I mean, we know several young couples that are like in their 19, 20-year-old types, okay, that go literally to the courthouse, go sit with a preacher and get married, and then the then they walk down the aisle with the white dress and the whole thing four months later. Mhm. >> I've seen that happen a bunch of times because that's how the schedule worked out for the stupid venue, but they are

legally morally married uh and all that

a long time before we all went to the wedding, you know, and a couple of us that are close enough friends actually knew that. But um uh

>> my my concern with that is that, you know, I've asked my parents for so much help and they've helped me out so much. I haven't really asking them to help you. I'm saying, "Hey, if y'all want to throw a party, we'll do it now. If you want me to throw the party, we're going to do it in a year." >> But they didn't really help you, Jimmy.

I mean, in a sense, you they're you're paying interest to your parents. So, like, it's not like they went and paid your debt off.

>> They're not helping you. You're paying them interest. They're making money off you. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> It's kind of weird. I do know people that their parents have paid off their debt so that they don't have to pay interest and it's a better deal for the kid, >> but they Yeah. I don't know.

>> Yeah. So, I >> I I I'm I you know your parents better than me, but I'm kind of thinking when you make this announcement that we're going to get married and we're going to have the party over here. If you all want to have the party earlier, uh and you want to finance it, we'll do it earlier for the uncles and aunts and we'll do that big party in December cuz we're getting married in a month.

>> And I'm going to go, Dad, I'm going to go get a ring. Mom, take her over there.

Y'all announce it to them. Tell them what your plans are and then watch and see if how generous they become towards the 61,000 and towards the party.

>> Yeah. >> I'm not begging for that. I'm just laying it out. And I'm not even going to ask. >> Yeah. Not even. >> I just want to That's why I ask what they thought of her because that's going to affect their participation, >> their their voluntary transport without you even asking. >> Yeah. >> Your mama might reach across the table and tap her on the hand and go, "Honey, we got this." You never know. You never know. So, um,

>> and I hope that for you. Sure.

>> Yeah, that'd be great. Go >> have a great party. >> That'd be great. Have it. It's a cool question, Jimmy. Thanks for It's obvious you've been listening to us the way you use some of the words to back at us. So, thank you for that.

[Music]

Our scripture of the day, Matthew 5:14 and 15. You are the light of the world.

A town built on a hill cannot be hidden.

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on a stand and it gives light to everyone in the house.

Oh, guys, come on. They give me Charlie Kirk quote.

>> Oh, man. If you believe in something, you need to have the courage to fight for those ideas, not run away from them

or try and silence them. Wow.

Oh, makes me cry. All right. Uh,

Heather's in Illinois. Hey, Heather.

What's up? >> Yes, Dave. I need to know your thoughts on a couple things. I'm a 82year-old

widow and uh I have approximately Well,

first of all, I do own my own home and my car. I have about $236,000.

Um, it earns about 4.4 4%.

Um, I also have about 10,000 in an

emergency fund, but I have no debts

except $16,000 on some windows that I bought. And um,

it's my payment is not due for 16 months

and there's no interest on them. And I

need to know, shall I just wait until the time is up and pay that amount or do

I should I start paying on it now?

Because my other concern is if I should have to go into a nursing home and I don't know what your thoughts are on that as far as how much money I need to

have set aside.

>> Okay. What are you living on per month?

um about 3500.

>> So pretty much your social security is covering you? >> Uh social security and pension. Yes.

>> Okay. What is your pension total? What's the total of those two things? Is that 3500? >> Well, the he total of both of them together is 35.26 a month.

>> Okay. And so you're able to live on that without touching the 232.

>> Yes, I am. >> Or even the interest on the 232.

>> Yes. You're letting it grow.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Um the the deal with

the um interest free windows is if you

do not get it paid off exactly on time,

they're going to backcharge you through the entire contract a huge interest rate. And so as a matter of safety

because those things are a bear trap.

Those those system those they in they they put those together with the intent that you don't pay it on time.

>> Aha. >> They're a bear trap. And so I want you to I want you to go ahead and clear it for no other reason except that I don't want the bear trap to get you.

>> Okay? And um that way it doesn't it doesn't give you any you know there's no dispute because it's so far away and you get very clear complete

documentation from them that says paid

in full nothing else due. So they don't

come back later and say you still owed $10 so we're going to charge you interest on the whole thing all the way back through. Cuz that's the kind of thing these shysters do.

>> Okay. So, I want to make sure that doesn't happen and let's get very clear documentation paid in full and go ahead and pay it. You don't have to do it.

>> Where is >> sometime in the next month or two? Okay.

>> Yeah. Where is the 232 sitting, Heather?

Is it just in a high yield high yield savings? >> Um, well, I've got uh about 206,000 in

money market and uh 30,000 in large cap

stocks. >> Yeah. So, you can just put you can just write a check out that money market and pay the bill. So call them and get a or have them send you an email or something that gives you an exact payoff by an exact date. >> Send that in and then hound them until they give you some kind of documentation states paid in full cuz I don't want the bear trap anywhere near you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So that's a minor thing that that's done. Now we've got 216,000

>> and because we just spent 16. All right.

And now what do we do with nursing home?

>> So what is your home worth?

Oh, about 160 probably.

>> Okay. All right. And so, um,

there there's two options, uh, really

with, uh, that you could go with. Um, and I'm going to recommend you go ahead and spend some of your time getting prepared for one or both of them. All

right. Option number one is your best option that I like in terms of quality

is I'm going to start investigating full-time care in your home.

>> Okay? >> It's uh a better uh quality of life for you. You get to stay in the house and um you got

one-on-one care. It's almost like you're it's hard for someone like you, but it's almost emotionally because you're but you're basically hiring a butler.

with with a nursing degree.

>> Sure. >> Okay. And I want them I want them to just move in there and take care of Heather. >> And if you have to have two of them and do two shifts because things get bad because you need someone night and day, that's still going to be cheaper than a nursing home.

>> Okay? >> And it's going to be nicer for you than a nursing home. Now, if you need more care, you need to have investigated some of the nursing homes in the area. Get in the car and go look at them.

Shop. Let's go shopping. >> Because on average, what would it cost? >> And have have them price it out in your area.

There's probably three or four within a 20 or 25 mile radius of you there. And let's go. That one's the this this one's the expensive one, but look at what the stuff they've got. This is the medium, and this is the other medium, and this is the one I don't want to go to.

And you're going to find all three there.

medium, and the one you don't want to go to. and you know, go ahead and get that figured out and then that'll tell you what you've got cuz your $200,000 is

making you only about $8,000 a year.

>> And so if you're going to start if you start burning through that money, we've

got to figure out how long it's going to last.

>> Yes. >> And so the nursing home's going to be Okay, let let's just make up numbers. If you did it, if you did the in-house care and it was 10,000 a month for for people

working in your home and that took care of everything. Well, I mean, we know what that is is 20 months.

>> Sure. Sure. >> Okay. Um, I will tell you the interesting stat. Um, it's a little bit depressing because the way we're talking about it, but the average nursing home stay is only 2.3 years.

>> Okay. >> Um, and I guess that's because by the time you get there, you don't live long.

Not not because they kill people, but um you know what I'm saying? So I mean we're just we're just at the end times, right? So I because I'm looking at that stuff, too. I'm 65 and so I'm talking my wife and I are talking about this stuff, too. What are we going to do >> in this case or that case if something happens to one of us?

>> Uh and is the other one going to just take care of them in the home? Yeah, that's what we're going to do. Um we're just going to hire help in the home instead of going to a nursing home. Uh >> your children will help, too. >> Well, I know I'm not. But you're not moving in. you got you have a life and stuff. So, but I'll just hire, you know, I'll hire I'll hire Sharon and a butler.

I mean, you know, I'll do it. I mean, I'm happy to do that. And so, um,

>> uh, all that. So, anyway, you just kind of got to you develop a plan and you look at what it costs and then you see what your burn rate on the money is, and then that tells you that you got 200,000 plus the value of this house to get through that. And if you outlive all of that in a nursing home, you're going to

end up in a Medicaid nursing home, which

is a welfare nursing home, and it's a different level than the other stuff we're talking about. So you, you know, that that's going to be your last resort, not your first choice. And so,

um, but I'm I'm an advocate for building out a system if it's possible for

medically possible and financially possible to, uh, stay in the home, uh,

if you can write the checks to cause that to happen. >> If you can do it. Yep. >> Yeah. And and some of you that have built large net worths that are listening, that's your best shot.

Really, that's your best option. Mhm.

>> Um, but >> especially if the home's paid for everything, like there's not all these expenses. >> But for people like Sharon and me or Heather or people that have worked our whole lives, the idea of having uh, you know, Downtown Abbey in the house, you know, that have the help in the house, so to speak, is weird for us.

We don't think we're not butler type people. >> So, we've kind of got to get our emotions around that if we're going to do it. Um, but >> I mean, they are medically trained.

>> No, but I'm just saying, you know, we're going to ring a little bell here. I mean, what I mean, it's just a little strange for people like me. Yeah. That puts us hour the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

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## 243. When the Numbers Feel Crushing, There’s Still Hope | February 26, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `MrWS5uBpWco` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrWS5uBpWco) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:43:26 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel, joined today by the Rachel Cruz, who is also a co-host of mine on another show we do called Smart Money Happy Hour, which you can check out on YouTube, podcast, Spotify, all the good places. Taking your calls at88255225.

Jessica kicks us off in Idaho. What's going on, Jessica?

>> Hi. I'm real nervous about talking with

this, but real thankful it's you two.

Um, I enjoy your other show, Smart Money Happy Hour, so I'm >> Thank you. >> Feeling a little on the anxious side, but >> Well, thank you. Um, all right. I will just jump in here. So, my husband and I are both 50. Um, we have a combined gross income of a two 200K net 161. Um,

we did not pay taxes in 2023. He owns

his own business, an HVAC business. And with the accounting um we paid we found out last October for 2024 which filed

late was 47,000 that we owed. Well now

because we didn't find out so super late

we now did not get to correct anything for 2025 and so we owe an additional 25

for uh 25,000 for 2025. We also have um

combined current consumer debt which again I am not real proud of this by any stretch but it's about 137k.

So, um, >> what is that, Jessica? What what does that consist of? The 137.

>> Oh, the good the good stuff. Um, it consists of credit card credit cards, um, some small, uh, you know, side, you

know, loans, um, to try to, you know, eventually refi, but then didn't necessarily refi. Then also we had a after we purchased our house in 23, we had a really bad um septic issue and had

to replace that end our drain field

which cost us 50 grand. Um all that

>> and so you took a loan out for the whole 50. >> We sure did. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Can I ask a stupid question on behalf of America?

>> Sure. Maybe not. Well, for a couple that's making $13,400 a month in take-home pay, why were you turning to debt at every corner? Where was all that money going?

>> I think what? Well, stupid. It was just all stupid. You're 100% right. We weren't making that at the time. Um, that's just where we're at now. >> This is newer income. So, you guys have made more money over time and have probably spent it all as most people do.

As soon as they get a raise, they go, "Sweet. More money for us to make more bad decisions with.

Ex right. We we jumped on that bad decision train. Absolutely. And again, not proud of that by any stretch.

>> Well, you're that's normal, Jessica. You're not alone in this.

>> And uh I I think there's hope here. You have 137,000 in loans that cross consumer debts. You have another let's call it 75K owed to the IRS.

>> So, it's a little over 200,000 that you guys have, >> right? >> Correct. >> That's the total mess to clean up. And that doesn't include your mortgage. How much of their mortgage is your mortgage?

Yes. Is our mortgage is 4150 a month. Um

>> 4,100. Yeah. 4,000. Uh anyway, that's a

monthly. So our mortgage is not even included in that. And so our mortgage is 575 total. >> Okay. That's what's left on that.

>> Woo. Okay. Well, the good news is you

guys have an incredible income.

>> The bad news is you're going to >> You also don't have any retirement either at 50 years old. Yeah, we we'll make up for that later.

>> You guys are going to be working probably longer than you wanted to. Um but if you can keep making 200 grand, this is a solvable problem. I mean >> on napkin math, you go, "All right, 50 grand a year, we're done in four years."

>> Yeah. If you guys if you guys can find a way, and I just took you you what you bring home a month minus the mortgage,

you know, you should have around 11,000ish left. And if you guys can

throw 6,000 a month at this debt, Jessica, which means you live on nothing. I mean, you guys, your grocery budgets like 200 a week if that like I

mean it is like we are just we are doing

nothing but paying this off. Yeah. And if you can >> that's under three years. >> Yeah. If you can throw if you can if you can be intense for three three and a half years, you guys could get out of this. And that doesn't even include selling stuff, right? Or working extra or whatever that is. I mean, there's there's stuff in here that you can move.

It's just going to be it's going to be a couple of years of of grinding it out.

>> I may or may not be wanting to cry right now because that makes me real excited because we're both on the same page. We both want to tap this.

>> And >> are you guys both working full-time, Jessica? Are y'all both full-time? >> Yes, we Yes, we are. >> And kids? Do you have kids?

>> Um, no. Not Well, we do. Not in the home, but >> Okay. Okay.

So, that's a good I mean, honestly, that's great. And if you guys >> Less mouths to feed. >> Yeah. And it takes a level of of even a step of humility at 50 years old after two great careers to say, "Hey, we're going to go work nights." And you and your husband just handshake and say, "All right, I'll see you at 9:00 p.m.

tonight cuz we're going to leave at 5 our jobs. We're going to go work somewhere for four hours and we're going to come home and that's going to be an extra 1,500, 2,000 bucks a month that's added to this that shortens it." You know what I mean?

It's just going to be hard, Jessica. I mean, but I think you guys are at it. I mean, even as you're explaining, coming on to the call how you're feeling, like the emotions are just right there.

They're right there, which actually is a good thing because you're actually feeling something and that's going to help in the motivation of it all. It really will. >> Yeah. >> What was going to be your next step if you hadn't called?

Well, I mean, obviously looking at um

the debt consolidations um just literally I mean we we we've

already talked because we're like all right we got to get these baby steps started so we've already got you know drawn out our spreadsheets living that life um and then you know yeah calling debt consolidated what can we do to

you know shorten this pain you know that we both are anxious about and we neither of us like get it's very weighty and you

know we've got kids that are getting married and all the things and so it's just you feel real handicapped in in your abilities um to really be progressively moving forward and and you know trying to even bless them with you know helping to pay for all this and and so you just I don't we don't like feeling this pressure either and so we're definitely it's to that point of just being super overwhelmed. M well, I

want to free you of feeling the obligation that you need to pay for everything or else you're a bad mom. I think you guys are incredible. The fact they're even struggling with this tells me how much you care about these kids and your family. And so, here's the truth. You can't cover a wedding right now. You can't bless them with some outrageous gift. But what the best thing you can do is clean up your own financial mess so that they don't have to take care of you later on in life.

>> That's the true burden to worry about.

And maybe later on down the road, you do get to bless him with an amazing gift six years from now.

>> Yes, that would be that would be awesome. >> So, can we say we're doing this in in 3 years that you'll call us back and do a debtree scream?

>> Oh my gosh, I would I would love to.

>> Well, here it is. >> Yes, absolutely. >> You spit shake with your husband. 6,000 a month is going toward this debt. The IRS debt comes first because they will screw up your life. So, let's make sure that we cover that, then attack all of the other debts, sell everything we can.

>> Do you have any to sell, Jessica? Do you have like a >> a four-wheeler, an extra car? I mean, I don't even know. >> We do. We no extra vehicle, but we do have a a camp trailer um that we've

definitely that's one of the things my my husband has said, let's let's try to get rid of it and sell it. We even talked about selling the house to be honest. Um not sure that there I mean there's maybe 120 20 you know

>> equity in there 50 maybe maybe in there equity >> that's like your like last ditch effort that's like we're on the verge of bankruptcy we're going to have to sell the house but I wouldn't do that you guys have an amazing income and we are rooting for Yeah.

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>> Pat is in Philadelphia up next. Pat, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Oh, thank you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can Rachel and I help today?

Well, I'm 68 years old. Um, and I have a

$40,000 student loan debt for my

daughter and the only retirement amount

I have is 37,000 in an IRA. I am still

working and I wanted to know if I should

take that all my retirement savings and

pay off this student loan and just be done with it. That's the only debt I have at own my house. I own my car. Uh

no credit cards.

>> Oh man. Is the loan in your name?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, is it a parent plus loan?

>> Yeah, it's a parent plus. Oh boy, that's brutal. >> Where's your um where's your daughter at in life, Pat? >> No, she never finished. Never finished.

Um she's

uh stay-at-home mom, so she doesn't

really have the finances to to help pay.

I I've asked her several times.

>> Does she understand your situation?

>> Um yeah, she she does.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Again, she she just she doesn't have the money. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> and she has two little ones, so she's, you know, she can't work right now.

>> And what about her? I mean, her husband's working, right?

>> Um, on and off.

>> Oh, boy. Well, here's my fear, Pat. Let me play this out for you. You drain every penny of retirement to pay off your these parent plus loans. Now, you're left with nothing. Now we're down to social security and you working until

you can't work anymore.

>> That's it. That's the only future available to you at that point. Not that this $37,000 is your saving grace for retirement, but that's that's really draining everything down to nothing all to pay off this parent plus loan for your daughter. And so I'm just trying to figure out what the other options are.

What is your current income?

>> Um 78 78 a year. Great. And what are

your expenses?

>> Um, so around 3,000 a month.

>> Okay. So, you should have, if we were doing a budget, you should have a few thousand dollar left over each month.

>> Oh, I have a few hundred left. I I figured like around 400 left. I do budget. Um, and I do have >> Do you have other debt? >> 400.

>> No, that's all. But it's, you know, till

uh my take-home pay is like 3400

because of me contributing to my IRA. I

I been putting 25% in. I've been really

trying to to build it up because >> trying to make up for lost time.

>> Mhm. man. Well, I'm I'm trying to think

through a plan where you could knock out these loans, get them out of your life, and still try to build a decent nest egg. >> And that's what I've been trying to do.

Um I've been putting 600 a month against

this loan. >> Well, the interest is probably 600 bucks a month at this point. Those parent plus loans are brutal.

>> Oh, they are brutal. It's it Yeah, I was looking at the daily interest is is six almost $7 a day. And that was the other

thing.

It's 7.9%.

Is there a way to negotiate that interest? >> I don't know that they'll negotiate. The only way to get out of that would be to, you know, refinance it, which you'd lose, you know, the federal protections. It'd become a private student loan. Um, and I don't know if you'd get a much better rate. It's something you can look into, but again, I don't think this is going to be the solution. I'm wondering if we paused all retirement investing and just got real intense about this and you pay it off in two years

>> because right now you're trying to do two things at once and you're not making great progress on either, >> right? >> Pat, what will you be getting at? Are you getting social security right now?

>> I am. I'm getting 2,000 a month in

social security. >> Okay. >> Are your benefits hurt by the fact that you're working right now?

um that I don't know because I just started um collecting social security.

>> Okay, you are full retirement age. So I I think you should be getting the full amount even if you're working at this point, but that's something to look into. >> Uh at least you have a great income. I mean, there's some saving grace here. Usually people that are 68 either retired and and are just trying to live off social security or they're they're not making 80 grand a year. They're making 30, 40, 50.

>> Mhm. And so this is at least something you have to your advantage of knocking this out and maybe eventually. I don't know their situation financially, but if they're able to even chip in and help cuz I just don't want them to you to be a burden to them when you're in your 70s because you have nothing saved and now mom's got to move in with them and they have to cover her, you know, financial life. >> That won't Yeah, that won't that won't happen. The uh the husband,

>> he wouldn't even let you move in.

>> No. >> Sounds like a peach. All right.

>> Well, Pat, um, these parent plus loans

really are becoming like a cancer on society. It's destroyed relationships and parents took it out thinking they were doing the right thing for their kids. The kids go, "Hey, it's in your name. You took it out. I was a kid. I was 18. I didn't know what I was doing.

This is on you." But I would at least be very blunt about your financial reality with your daughter and so that she knows what's on the line. And if they can at all help you get rid of this, that at least gives you a chance at a decent retirement.

>> Okay. So, I'm pausing um my

contributions in my IRA.

>> Yeah. Put that 25% back in your paycheck. >> But remember, you're not pausing it for the rest of your life. You're pausing it for a short period of time.

>> 24 months. We're going to pause it all and we're going to start throwing, you know, this kind of loan, you're talking about three grand a month going toward the loan to knock it out in two years, >> a little more than that >> cuz the interest is adding up. You're right. And so the more we throw at the principal, >> the faster this thing's gone.

Cuz right now, you throw 600 at it, but 100 or 200 is interest. Well, only 400 is now knocked out.

Okay, >> but there's no other magic wand I can throw at you. I mean, these loans are not even bankruptible in most cases. Uh, and so really, the only way to get rid of student loans is to pass away, which is the darkest part of it all.

>> Oh my goodness. I'm wishing you the best, Pat. >> So sorry. >> Riley is up next in Memphis, Tennessee.

Riley, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how are y'all >> doing? Great. What's going on with you?

Hey. Um, about two years ago, I bought a

$60,000 truck.

>> I currently owe 39 on it, and it's worth

about 20 29 32.

>> Okay. >> Uh, I can I I say I can afford the payment, but once I get done paying the payment, well, after I get paid and, you know, insurance and buying diesel for it, I'm left with about a hundred bucks for two weeks. Yeah, that's right.

>> After your after your truck payment.

>> Yeah, after my truck payment. >> How much do you make? How much do you make a month? How much you bringing home in a month?

>> Um, it fluctuates depending on if they're letting us work overtime, but it could be anywhere from 1,400 bring home

to 2,000 bring home >> in a week. >> So, it in I mean every two weeks.

>> Okay. And how much is your truck payment?

Uh $75864.

>> That's a lot, my friend. That's a a quarter of your take-home pay just going to the truck payment. >> So, you're underwater by 7 to n grand.

So, that's the magic number we need to come up with either in cash through savings, future income, or by going down to your local credit union and seeing if they'll give you the loan for the difference plus some to get you something to get around in. An ideal situation is like a $12,000 loan,

$13,000 loan. So, you have an extra three to 4,000 to go get a crappy truck, >> Facebook Marketplace, and get an inspection and just go, "All right, this thing's not It's not fancy, but it runs." >> And then you save almost $1,000 a month, $750. >> Yeah. Between the diesel, the insurance, and the payment, you're going to feel like you got a giant raise cuz you did.

>> Yeah. Well, I talked to the bank this morning and they told me that uh I have another car that's paid for and it runs fine. It's in the driveway.

>> They told me to get the VIN and put it

up for collateral and they said don't do

that. >> Like a title loan.

>> No. >> Yeah, like a like Oh, they just said for collateral because I've never had a loan. >> That's a title loan. It means they own the car if you miss the payments. I don't like that at all. >> Yeah. No, just see if they will if you can do just Yeah, just a personal loan for N grand at that point. Or if you have a,000 bucks saved Riley, then an $8,000 loan, whatever it is for that difference. Um Yeah. And pay this truck off ASAP.

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We wish that we could get to every call and question here on the Ramsay Show and we can. But if you have a money question, you want an answer, there is hope for you. You can head over to our website and use Ask Ramsey. It's our free AI tool that is built and trained on proven Ramsay principles.

This is stuff that you're not going to get from your other search engines cuz they just don't know us like that. Yes, >> this thing is has the brain power of all the Ramsay shows. >> All Ramsay.

>> Just like a robot of Ramsay. It's like us, George. a superpower. It's way smarter than us cuz it knows everything.

>> That's so true. >> Can do. >> I actually use it today, Rachel. You know what I asked it? I was like, you know, I know our car parameter that no more than half your income and things with wheels and motors, but I was like, what about net worth as a ratio? And it told me, it said, hey, make sure that the cars in, you know, in your life aren't more than 5% of your total net worth >> of your total net worth. >> I was like, thanks, Ask Ramsay.

>> Gosh, Ramsay, we should >> I was like, I think it's five. I think I've heard Dave say this. and Ask Ramsey knows all. So, it settled the debate for me. >> Uh, and you can get the answer the same way we'd answer it right here on the show. So, ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com.

Go take it for a test drive. I think you'll really enjoy it. Or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Tyler joins us in Canada. Tyler, welcome to the show.

>> Oh, thank you for having me. It's my first time calling, so I'm excited to hear your feedback. >> Hey, about time. We're glad to have you.

What's your question? >> Yeah, thank you very much. Yeah. So, um, my wife and I are moving to a different

province in Canada. Um, she's just about to be done graduating. Um, seven years worth of school. Um, she's going to be a veterinarian when she's done.

>> Nice. >> And because of the she has a job guaranteed contract, she's already signed it. And I have work lined up back home as well that we both know what we're going to be making. Um, so we went ahead and made a decision.

We put an awful lot on a house in part because of the money we had saved for school. Plus, unfortunately, um, her father passed away recently, but that meant she got, you know, the the life insurance payment made it so that it was more than possible for us to do either a 10 or a 20% down payment on all the housing that we were looking at in in rural New Brunswick in this case.

that's maybe that's fine advice, maybe it's not. But the problem became then um

and you know I they're good people and they had you know their worries and concerns but our her mother and grandmother and my in-laws have sort of been telling us like that it's too much too soon and it's a bad decision. And I was just wondering if there's um if I'm

making a mistake or if if what I'm doing is fine. Are they saying it's a bad decision because of where you guys are financially or because it's just too soon because y'all you just graduated, you're newly weds. Was it more of a life or a money reason?

>> I think it's it's definitely more money reasons. Like we've been married for almost 5 years, so it's not like, you know, you're keeping up too much onto a new relationship or anything. >> And they know your incomes.

>> Yeah. They're going to be making >> a lot of debt from her vet school.

>> Um we have some hangover. The only caveat here is because it's Canada,

there's no interest on the student loans. So, we are paying them, but it's a lot. How much student loan debt is there? It doesn't matter for the uh it's it's around 30,000.

>> Okay. >> What other debts do you guys have?

>> Nothing. It's just those.

>> Do you have any loans? There's no credit cards. >> Okay. And how much money do you guys have saved total including um what she what when her father passed away?

So all between what I've saved and between what we have, we've probably got around 80 >> 80,000. Okay. >> Saved. Yeah.

Is a little over $80,000 that's like liquid right now. Okay. >> It's non-retirement. >> Gotcha.

>> So if you take away the loans, that brings you down to 50. Take away an emergency fund of 6 months. That takes it another 30 down. So you're left with 20 grand essentially.

>> Let's go 3 months. They're young. They don't have kids. >> Okay.

Rachel's being very >> on the edge.

>> 20K. So 20k for emergency fund, 30k for

>> 30k and then >> leaves you with 30 left for a down payment. >> Yeah. 30,000 for a down payment is where we would say you guys are parameter wise versus 80. >> How much is the house that you guys put an offer on?

>> So what we ended up settling for was 3.45. So 10% would be the the 34 and a

half. Yeah. >> I was hoping to >> So maybe this is the the philosophy difference. I was going to leave the student loans and go for 20 um on the

house and then use the excess because it would be, you know, an extra 500 bucks a month that I'm saving on the mortgage and I wanted to use that >> to go in and pay the student loans.

>> How much a month extra would you get?

You said so you'd save 500 a month if you put 20% down, >> right? Because it would avoid PMI, right? sure that that would be going instead of, you know, paying the student loan or the lump sum immediately just because it's because there's no interest on it. My incentive to pay it isn't isn't quite the same.

And I would rather I think I'm net saving more money by reducing the insurance load or the interest on the house rather than, you know, the student loans that I'm less incentivized to pay. >> Yes. Well, yeah. And in that case, if it was just 500 you're putting towards those loans, it'd be like three and a half years till they're paid off.

yeah what you would put down for a house. How much do you guys make a year >> together? What will the new jobs?

>> Yeah, it'll be the so the about the floor the most conservative estimate will be 125. Okay. um her job, she's expected obviously like within 3 years to be making a lot more than the 85 starting and there's a commission component. >> So depending on what drug she does or doesn't sell >> I'm not like planning that into a budget or anything but it's another consideration. >> So 125 for both of you,

>> right? >> What are you making? >> Oh no, no, that's combined. 125 is combined be around 85 and I'd be about like conservative. >> Okay. Yeah. So if you guys lived on 90

Well, I guess that's before taxes.

>> Yeah. My guess is your take-home pay will be somewhere in the $7,000 range.

>> Yeah, that seems about right. >> Okay. Um >> maybe I would say a little bit more than that, but but yeah, that's pretty good.

>> My fear is that I mean if you do it the Ramsay way you're talking about I know you guys have a different mortgage structure. You guys have like adjustable rate mortgages that change every 5 years. Is that right?

And our our interest or the rate is like three and a half% here where it's more I think for you guys as well. >> Okay. Not sure though. >> But the rate could change, you know, every couple years. Yeah. >> So my fear is that you pick up this home and if you do it our way, you know, that mortgage could be $3,000 out of your seven, right?

>> It's possible. >> That feels like a a big load to carry going into this new phase of life. And we know we recommend 25% going towards your housing. And so you'd be closer to

40, edging up to 50 depending on the

situation, insurance, property taxes, all of that. HOA, I don't know how that works in Canada, but that's my fear right now. >> It's rural, so there's no HOA, and the property taxes is a little it's it's about $100 a month. >> Okay.

So there there's a piece of me that says you guys might be able to make this work, but it's going to be more stressful than you think it is.

It just >> it's it's the it's the province where we were from. Um I guess the other the only other thing uh piece of information that might be relevant here um her job requires her like week on week off to be in one of two different places. So the where we were getting is kind of in the middle to reduce her driving between each one. >> Um and it's closer to where I would end up working as well.

Um so the the options to rent that are actually close are like close to non-existent because of how rural it is. >> Okay.

It'd be we're talking about like >> 45 minutes a 20-minute drive versus over an hour. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, for a year here here's the thing, Tyler. The what the reason that

everything is laid out the way it is with the baby steps and all of it, which hasn't changed in 30 plus years is because this is the most peaceful, most efficient way to build wealth long term.

Okay? And so, and I say peaceful, people getting out of debt. It's not really peaceful. It's crazy.

You're like trying to get out. But the point is is that especially with a house, you know, your house is supposed to be a blessing. It's supposed to be a place of peace and rest. And the thing is people quickly move into that purchase thinking, "Okay, if I could just get that house, it's going to be okay.

And and we'll figure out the finances. Well, it's okay. We're right on that edge." But what George was saying earlier is you're just you're right on that edge. And what it could cause is a level of stress that's unnecessary for today.

Yeah.

crazy, knocked out the debt, >> had, you know, looked at and said, "Okay, we can go full force, 20% down." Like, it's just a more peaceful way. And there's no one telling you you have to buy a house right now. You know, there's no one. So, >> and you can, you know, it gives you more options down the line. One of you, let's say you have kids, one of you wants to stay home. Well, you can't. And guess what? There's no daycare out in the woods. And so now we're left in alert.

So we're trying to think about future Tyler as well. Wishing you the best.

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>> Haley's in Seattle up next. Haley, welcome to the show.

>> Hi. Thanks. Super excited to be here.

>> What's going on with you today?

I am trying to decide if my family just made the biggest financial mistake of our lives. >> Oh no. What is it?

>> Say more.

>> So we just sold our Ramsy model perfect

house in Boise, Idaho to move to a high cost living in Seattle, Washington.

>> Why'd you move?

We have two young kids and I became

permanently disabled from my job >> and I wanted to be close to family. Oh, thank you. It's I'm I'm dealing with it.

But um I wanted to be close to family to

help with the raising of our children.

>> Yeah, that's a that's a very noble decision and a great why. So, what is

causing you to feel like that was a big mistake? Is it all financial related because it's just more expensive?

>> Yes. So, so well, I mean, it's hard to justify leaving a $1,200 mortgage.

>> Well, it is when you're permanently disabled and you have young kids, you want to be in your family. I mean, >> that's and it depends on how much of your world is new mortgages. It might just like, well, we were paying this much, now we're paying this much. The sticker shock sometimes hurts more than the actual reality ratios.

So, like our rent, we moved into an apartment and our rent is $3,285.

>> Oh, yeah. That can hurt. >> And what's the household income now?

Like every month? >> Uh, about 7,500.

>> So, that's where you're feeling the pinch. >> Is half of the income is now going to

rent instead of building equity at $1,200 a month.

>> Exactly. And it was I mean it was just such an affordable place to live too.

>> Yeah. >> Sure. >> Okay. Well, it's done, right? The decisions made. The house has been sold, correct? >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Okay. So, what can we do moving forward

to help you?

>> So, we, my husband and I feel like we

are never going to be able to re-enter the economy as like homeowners and like take that next step again. We feel like we took this huge step back. And I guess

my husband is in the mindset currently that we made the biggest financial decision that could ruin our future

going forward and it's going to take us years to recoup in rent. >> Wow. Very dramatic.

>> The cloud is hovering over you.

>> Well, what happened to the pros from the house? >> Doom. You sound like me. Like the

world's coming to an end. >> It's I mean it's scary. So, like I I get where he's coming from, but I feel like we have such a solid financial base that I don't think that's not true. >> How much did you get from the house when you sold the house?

>> 230.

>> Where did that go? >> Where's that?

>> Uh, that one is in a high yield savings account right now because we don't know like when we could buy again.

>> Okay. What are the houses going in the area that you guys are in?

>> Oh gosh.

um like for a decent threebedroom house

we're looking at 7 to 800,000.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So this is a solvable problem. I mean yes it's more expensive than living in Boise. So we need to get that out of our head. >> And you knew that though Haley like right like you >> right >> you guys didn't just like show up in Seattle and be like oh my gosh this is more expensive. Like you knew that. So um living living in it's a different reality. I understand that. But um but it wasn't it wasn't >> it is >> it wasn't like it surprised you.

>> Well, I think it surprised my husband a little bit uh just because he wasn't really for the move. He loved our home and like the situation we were in and we felt like we were really financially stable and he kind of believed that. I wonder if that's part of his draw.

>> Um, and I think part of it is is I just

don't want any level of bitterness or resentment in him to grow >> cuz it doesn't sound like you both were felt really really solid and really excited and really on the same page about this move. something you chose.

You didn't do it out of a place of strength.

>> No. Well, it just seems so It feels like we just went against everything that Dave Ramsey teach. >> Forget Dave Ramsey. This is your life, Haley. I mean, you're you have this this health condition that has caused you to have to move and it wasn't your choice.

And I have Dr. John Deloney in my head going, you need to grieve the life that you had. That one's over and now there's a new chapter. And so we can either look backwards and go, "Oh my gosh, if we just could live in Boise again, or we can go, hey, this is a fun adventure.

We got young kids living in this really cool city. Yes, it's more expensive, but my husband has a great job. Maybe he can make even more money in the long run being in Seattle, especially with all the tech stuff around it. There's a there's a great economy there." >> Yeah.

>> And you guys will be homeowners again one day. You have hundreds of thousands of dollars saved, >> right? And I was going to say, would we put all of that money down on a new home? >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> What else would you do with it? >> I just wasn't sure.

>> I don't know. I just feel like it it I don't know. >> Yeah. >> I guess it just feels like a lot of

>> Was this move, Haley, a quick decision?

When from the moment you guys started talking about it to it actually happening, was it a couple like was it a year? Was it >> Oh gosh, like months.

>> Okay. So I do I do wonder if you guys rushed into it and George I love you but I will correct. He said you needed to move. You didn't have to move.

>> Yes. >> You chose to for the help >> for the Yeah, exactly. for the overall quality of your life because of what happened. How long ago was the accident that caused you to be permanently disabled?

>> It's been a It's kind of hard. I'm blind. So it was a slow progression.

>> Okay. Oh, I'm so sorry. Hill, y'all are

just dealing with a Can I just say that? You're just dealing with a lot. That >> is one of the most >> horic life changing hap. Yes.

>> You You're I mean, you're grieving your your sight, which I can't even imagine.

>> Um >> Oh, I didn't want to give up words.

>> Sure. Yes. And giving up that part of you that was contributing and that you loved your your work. Um you know, your

husband who's you know what I like like there's a there's a lot >> and I'm sure it's a lot on him to figure all this out. >> Yeah. I think the stress is less about it being more expensive in Seattle. And I think it's that your life has completely changed. Completely changed what and what and what George said quoting John of kind of grieving what

was supposed to be what our life what we thought would look like for the next >> 101 15 years of our life. It does it looks so different on so many levels, right? And that's uh >> it does >> that's a really sad reality, you know, that's hard. Not that you guys can't get through it and create something beautiful in this next season, but um to

acknowledge that that that's that's difficult.

>> Yeah. Yeah, it has been hard. But I again, like you guys said, I feel like we're in like a safe space. I mean, we're around family and and there is the financial backing to purchase a home.

We're just kind of hesitant instead of like putting all that money into a new home in this area. Like just with the current economy and climate like we don't know if that's like smart >> or if renting is a better way.

>> What do you mean? Yeah. What do you mean by the current econ when you say that?

What does that mean to you?

>> It just to me it feels like with the interest rates of where they're at and the type of houses they're like they're not like a lot of them are fixer uppers at the 700 to 800,000 range.

you know, we're going to have to we'll get into a home and we'll probably have to replace the roof or the HVAC system is going to be ancient. And so, it's like this fear factor of like if we buy

into another home, like is that really going to be wise? Is are we going to get equity on that? >> Long term. Long term it will. Paying $3,000 in rent forever and ever, amen, is not the wisest move. It would be, you know what I mean? Yeah. more wise to to get in and and you guys need to I would say slow down before you buy and

actually look to see yes, does the HVAC unit need to be replaced? How does the You'll see all of that in the inspection of the home. None of that will be a surprise. You guys will have some factor, but yes, being a homeowner is more expensive. You're you're exactly right. Um but also, I do think there's some man some semantics that are thrown around when it comes to the economy and the housing market and and it is true.

houses are more expensive than they were 5 years ago. Yes, interest rates are around 5% and they're not at the 2 to 3%. Like there are some realities, but just this like um vague idea that oh

gosh, the economy is just not good. We shouldn't buy a home. I would want some more facts around those thoughts. >> Yeah. My fear is you look back 10 years from now and you go, wow, the economy was great back then and we had no idea.

>> And so I'm a I'm a glass half full kind of guy when it comes to that. So the the goal is let's let's grieve what was and let's make a plan for the future. And that might mean we're going to save 25 grand a year or 30 50 grand a year for this next home 3 years from now. And that's it. It slowed down your wealth building, but you have the right setup in place for your life and that's far more important.

>> Well Dave, you know, on the show all the time we get calls about cars, used cars.

What's one thing you want folks to know?

>> Well, really a couple things. Number one is always buy used unless you got a million dollars. We don't buy new cars.

And if you're going to buy used, number two, you want it to last. And that means regular proper maintenance.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Lynn is in Maine up next. Lynn, welcome to the show.

>> Are you with us?

So close. All right. Yes, I am. Oh, good. Yes, I am. >> You scared me half to death.

Thank you so much for taking my call.

I'm sorry.

>> Hi. So, um, my husband and I got married

last year. Um, we started the baby steps right after getting married. We paid off our debt aside from our mortgage. And six months into marriage, I found out that my husband owed $80,000 in back

taxes. And also at this time, we found out we were pregnant with our first child. >> Oh my gosh. finding out. Yeah, a lot

going on. We paid the $80,000 out of our

emergency fund and house fund, so we had the money to pay that. But we are unsure where to go from here emotionally and financially because tax season for

2025 is quickly approaching and we are

expecting to owe about $40,000. Oh my

gosh, Lynn, why has the accounting not changed after everything?

>> The accounting um I quarterly payments

employed.

>> No, we No, we hadn't.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you didn't learn

>> You didn't make any payments in 2025, >> but didn't learn from owing 80,000. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm just wondering, did it not occur to your husband? >> We found out in December. Um, so we were

trying to catch up before we paid 2025.

>> Oh, so you found out about the 80 in December.

>> Yeah. >> And at that point, 2025, you found that was for 2024.

>> That was for 2022, 2023, and 2024.

>> Got it. So by the time you found out about all of this, it was too late because 2025 was over at that point. So now we're just sort of cleaning up. This is still part of the mess. Let's call it 120 grand and you've cleaned up 80 of it.

>> Yes, exactly.

>> Well, it's fairly simple. It's a $40,000

debt that you owe the government and so we got to pay that as aggressively as possible. Do you have other debts as well?

>> We don't. We paid off all of our other debt. Good. >> Thankfully, um we do have we have a

business. Um it's a it's a restaurant.

So, we have $40,000 we well total we

have $60,000 in the um bank account for

our restaurant and we have $20,000 in

our personal account and I know you talk

about pausing paying debt when you find

out you are pregnant. Um, so we're just wondering if we should take money from

the business account or if we should get on a payment plan with the IRS or what our best >> um what our best way forward is.

>> Yeah, I think for STOR mode is what we call it. I think IRS debt is not included. Like I think you got to you got >> especially if you have the money. So the question is what was that 60 grand earmarked for in the business account?

Is that needed for upcoming purchases,

investments, anything like that? Or is it just kind of an emergency fund for the business?

>> Yeah, an emergency fund for the business. It takes about $15,000 a week

to operate. While we do um bring in more

than $15,000 a week, we just wanted to kind of >> Yeah. How much do you guys bring home?

a total a month we bring home about

15,000 a month. >> Oh, amazing. Okay. So, you could easily restock the business account if you took 40k. >> I would pay 40k today out of the business >> because truthfully, this is kind of an emergency for your business >> is you didn't withhold enough taxes or at all. And so, I would take that out.

Now, you got 20k in there plus 20k in checking. So, you're not in a lurch if you did need to cover, you know, an emergency. And so I would just work on restocking that and you guys should still be good for your stork mode. I mean you have 20 grand. This is the stork mode is more for like we are broke. We have $1,000 starter emergency fund and we need to make sure that we're covered in case there's you know health bills.

>> Right. Right. Okay.

>> So I have full confidence I would clean it up because truthfully while you're pregnant you don't want to be dealing with the stress of IRS debt. >> Yes. Yeah. Get rid of >> I want this to be exciting and fun and not this looming in the back of your mind that we owe the IRS. have do you have someone that's helping you with your taxes for the business?

>> We do now. Yes. An accountant that um we

had before wasn't great, but we have somebody trustworthy now, which so we

feel like we're in a good path forward.

Obviously, this was very hard emotionally, which I'm still trying to get over. I think that's the biggest thing for me right now. emotionally because you didn't know about it because trust or >> Yes. >> Yeah. And and was it um >> know about it? >> Do you feel like was there any level of secrecy out of out of not malice that sounds bad but of like oh gosh I don't want her to know or was it complete just ignorance of genuinely not knowing that he owed this?

>> I think it it's hard to say for sure. I think part of him maybe knew that he owed something. I don't think that he knew that he owed 80,000. he was filing

um taxes for the business but wasn't filing personal the money that he was taking from the business. >> Y >> and he wasn't fully realizing but also

should have definitely checked. So, um

it it's just been hard to find that out.

>> Yeah, for sure, Lynn. That's very stressful. Yeah, >> absolutely. >> Well, the good news is you guys can cover this with the cash on hand and it's fixed for the future. So, I would uh just get rid of it now. I wouldn't get on a payment plan. Just cut them the check for 40 grand and fix it for the future. I mean, you got your your next quarter is coming up here to pay your quarterly estimated payments. So, let's prepare for that and finally get ahead of it instead of kind of being reactive,

>> right? And use um kind of cash flow for

the next month or try to cash flow for the next month that quarterly because we're kind of still playing catch-up right now. >> Exactly. So you might owe 10 or 15 grand in quarterly in a quarterly payment coming up. And so we got to make sure we have that.

And so the next week we're going to be living on a pretty tight budget now. So I don't know how you guys are living now. If I was making 15 grand a week, I'd be living Levita Loca. And so it might be time to batten down the hatches and and live a little bit more conservatively until we get through this phase.

The taxes are solved. The baby's here. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay, awesome. Thank you so much.

>> Best of luck with that sweet baby.

>> I know. >> Such an exciting time. You don't want it clouded by this mountain of debt.

>> So much. And it's scary like what she said. I mean when And thank God. I mean they they're somewhat responsible. They got 60 grand in an emergency fund in the business. 20 grand for I mean like they're there's elements of it that are a saving grace because some people >> usually if you're making that kind of money you're comfortable with all these payments around you and you're just sort of keeping up. >> Yes. And luckily they they lived fiscally responsibly in other ways.

>> Yes. To be able to have some of that y that savings. >> And a good reminder for anybody who is self-employed, even if you do like side gigs. I mean, you got to pay self-employment tax.

You got to pay your quarterly estimated payments. And it's not that hard. You can sort of calculate using calculators on the IRS website how much you'll owe in taxes. And you go, "All right, I'm going to owe 40 grand this year or I made this much this quarter.

I need to write a check to the IRS and log in, connect your bank, and pay the IRS what they're owed. It's not fun. But we can't pretend like, oo, free money. I don't have to pay taxes cuz I'm self-employed.

You got to pay them and then some, bud. You got the business taxes and your personal taxes. The government wants their cut. And so, make sure you take care of that so it doesn't add stress to your life cuz the IRS can really screw it up.

They're not your traditional lender. So, take care of the stuff.

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We're headed to Providence, Rhode Island. James joins us there. What's going on, James? >> Hey, how you guys doing? >> Great. What's your question today?

>> Uh, my question is about uh communication. Um, I'm 30 years old and I just got engaged and uh I found you

guys maybe a year ago and I'm on baby step two. I got $10,000 left on a car

loan and I budgeted uh $12,000 and maybe

a little more for a wedding that we uh have coming up in 2028. Um, so >> that's a long ways away.

>> Yeah. Well, we we could have done it next year. Um but we wanted to fund it

ourselves without going into debt.

>> Okay. >> So, um that that's why we chose 2028. Um

right now I make 50 around 15,000 a year, but um transitioning careers to

become a firefighter and I'll be making 80K. So, I'm upping my >> income for our future. But um I I I

wanted to uh try and start a conversation with her, but as I like tried to talk about debt and all of that. I just found myself not knowing how to approach it well. Um I I've become really passionate about living debtree and and trying to become debtree. Um so how do I communicate uh

with her without coming off as controlling or judgmental about her having debt and all that? >> What do you know about her finances?

Um, from from what I know, she has credit card debt. She has card C carda and student loan. Um, the amount is not I

don't have full knowledge on the amounts. I know it's north of 25,000

>> total or more. >> Well, you guys are engaged, so you have the right to start talking about this stuff. It's not like it's been two dates and you're like, "Hey, I really want to lay it all out." And so, now is the time. consider this your like premarital counseling to make sure and you go into it saying, "Hey, as we head towards marriage, I want to make sure that we're aligned cuz I know money is a huge part of marriage and I don't want us to be having money fights.

I want us to hit our financial goals and my values around money is that I believe being debtree is our best path to building wealth and having a marriage with less fights and see how she how that hits her." And it's not a judgment. You're not saying, "I can't believe you're in debt. You better get out before we're married or else." That's not the spirit of this cont.

we and we we have the same value system,

right? And that would be true with how you want to handle in-laws, how you want to parent, um you know, your spiritual life. Like I mean, this is all part of,

you know, uniting two lives together when you get married. And you don't have to be the same person, right? She may still be a spender. You may still be a saver. It's not like you're trying to morph her into who you are, but the value systems on which you make decisions has doesn't have to be consistent, but the more consistent they are, I would say uh probably I don't want to say the easier the marriage is going to be, but definitely um it's a less it's a less mountain to climb.

>> Yep. Less tension in that area for sure.

>> So yeah. So if you >> Go ahead. I I know she like she's the

one and and like I I really want my

future to be with her and I I just want our our future together to be as stressfree as possible, you know?

>> Yeah. What if you guys uh did something together to sort of get on the same page like reading the total money makeover or going through Financial Peace University and going, "Hey, as part of our sort of premarital counseling, I'd love for us to go through this money course or read this book together so that we're kind of speaking the same language." >> Well, her language, she's a teacher, she's an English teacher. So, her language, she has a bunch of books. So,

I mean, that would probably be the good first step through books.

>> I love it. And even an audio book, too, if you guys are on a road trip or something, just it's it it can be casual. It's not like it's an intense we're going to do a book report here. >> Yeah. No, and you're not wrong to ask this stuff, James. I do want to just affirm that when you're engaged to someone, everything's out on the table, like you're about to combine your lives.

You know what I mean? So, so bringing up big conversations and hard conversations

um that that's um that's the you know

the grounds of marriage like that that is what you're going to do. And so you're right, practicing that now is very important. And for you guys to, you know, I mean, by the time you guys walk down the aisle, James, you need to know how much she makes, what's in retirement, what she has set up, you know, as a teacher, what debt she has.

She needs, I mean, you guys are going to know everything because you're going to combine it all and be one after that marriage. So, um, >> you just don't want to come off as, you know, someone like I I'm trying to like

dominate or or anything like I just want

to know what I have to deal with and what we will have to deal with together once we become married. And

>> yeah, nothing about you sounds controlling and dominating at this point in the conversation. So, I I don't know that you could really screw it up unless you're just super way too passionate and overbearing. She's like, "Who is this guy? He came out of nowhere." But if she knows you well enough, this is going to feel like another conversation and just say, "Hey, I've been thinking a lot about this and I was thinking, man, it would be really cool to be heading into marriage debtree.

Can we like just I want to map it out on paper and just see like what's possible cuz you got to pay for the wedding. You're both covering. >> You're still getting out of debt, James. So, it's not like you you know what I mean?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's what you can say. I mean, I've I've, you know, messed up with money.

I've been so in debt and it's stressed me out and I've started to actually find freedom and peace by getting out of debt. And it's really important to me that as we build a future together that we see and are aligned on this.

>> Definitely. >> And then you can sort of couch that to go, okay, now I can see how debt freedom is a part of that. M and I think even going into it saying I have these goals.

How cool would it be if we had options when we got married instead of having to clean up a bunch of debt? How awesome would it be to have the wedding paid for and no debt and money in the bank so that we're closer to buying a house or we can go on this amazing vacation or honeymoon. And so now we're dreaming.

This is an exciting conversation versus a wo is me. >> And you get to know a person through the lens of money, right? Of how she grew up. What was >> what was her household growing up with money?

You know, was it stressful? Was money talked about? Was there >> scarity, >> tension? Was it scarcity mindset?

A bunch? You know, you kind of learn of how she is, what her personalities are, what her tendency is >> um around money, the things that she loves to do with it, the things that she's scared of and that she's fearful for in the future.

level when it comes to these conversations, too.

>> Okay. Thank you so much.

>> Sorry, probably overwhelmed you, James. You know what? Hold on the line and Kelly's going to pick up and we'll give you um a copy of my book, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Uh cuz it does talk about those money classrooms of how you grew up in your tendencies and Total Money Makeover.

We'll give you two copies. We'll give you two copies of Total Money Makeover, so you each can read one. >> She's an English teacher. She wants her own.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And >> Mark It Up, highlight it. >> Yeah.

And this is We probably overwhelmed him. Sorry, James. >> No, he's he's excited. I get it.

In engagement, you're nervous. You're like, I don't want to screw this up. You know, you're on the precipice >> and so you're like, now's not the time to throw a wrench into things, but it's the right wrench, >> but it is it. Yeah, >> it's the right wrench.

You don't want to throw it money. I know money throw wrenches. >> I know, but money fights and money problems are one of the leading causes of divorce. It's in the top three list always of reasons why people get divorced.

like it's a big conversation to have and an urgent one to have because >> yeah I don't know what woman is like if you came up to her and said hey money fights and money problems are one of the leading cause of divorce. I don't want that to be us. I want to just >> Yeah. You almost feel loved and cared for. >> What a fiscally responsible man I'm about to marry. This is awesome.

>> James is such so responsible.

>> And if she gets if she gets frazzled or upset then you you're the calm one going, "Hey, what's going on there?" >> Well, then that's saying more about her.

what's going on there and then again.

Yes. >> So, there's really no like >> lose lose. Yes.

>> This is going to be so great. I wish I was there to watch it. You know, we should do like a show where we we were like we're in their ear with a little microphone. >> Oh my gosh, that'd be so fun. And we're like, "Say this. Say this. Hold on." Hold her hand. Grab her hand. Okay.

Good. >> All right. If you guys want that show, >> man. >> We'll uh we'll workshop it. We'll pitch it to the network >> cuz people know we can talk. I think we just talked James. >> I would love it. But like you have her, I've got him. And we're like sort of battling, you know? >> Oh, that's good. I think that's great.

>> I'd watch that show. >> I think that sounds fantastic.

>> It's like Impractical Joker. >> That's what I was going to say. There's a show that Yes. where they make them do something, but we would actually be helpful. >> But it's not a prank show. We're just trying to help you. >> No, we're really trying to help. >> Nail the conversation. >> The money fight show. That's what it should be. >> All right, guys. I think we just nailed it. We just pitched it. I think Dave Ramsey just signed off. We're good.

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>> Today's question comes from Brooklyn in Ohio. I am 27 and married to a great guy

who also lives by your principles. We're on baby steps four, five, and six, and our home will be paid off in five years.

We have a six-month old baby. I'm a free spirit, but with my husband's help, I have become a saver. Wow.

>> I didn't know you could change. >> I Our wedding budget a couple of years ago was almost $50,000. And with inflation, our daughter's wedding is going to cost around 70,000. I want to start a wedding savings account for her, but my husband thinks we should pay off the house first. Can we do both at the same time or pay off the house first and then save for the wedding? >> That is a hilarious and fantastic. I mean, from a free spirit to I'm planning the wedding for the six-month-old.

That's pretty impressive >> because she wants a great wedding in

20 plus years or what?

>> Yeah. In the year 2015. >> Yes. So, no, Brooklyn, I would not be saving right now for a wedding. I would be paying off the house.

>> Yep. >> I'm on your husband's team. You don't know. You don't know what it's going to cost. You don't know what your daughter is going to want to is going to want.

You're we're not we don't know that far in the future, right? So, that's a very far off purchase to make. Now, one thing

you could be thinking about though is college. Um, you know, and saving for that. But, um, yep. For the wedding, I

would I would wait a little bit. I would get the house paid off and get some college funding happening on the side.

And then as she gets older and you guys are in a great financial position uh, to be saving and Yep. >> Yep. I just crunched the numbers for you while Rachel was talking. I got so deathly bored. I was like, I'm just going to go to the investment calculator. Well, I want to just show her that this is a solvable problem.

Right? You focus on paying down the house. 5 years from now, they're debtree with a 5 and 1/ halfyear-old daughter.

>> Okay? >> Right? So, that gives them, let's say, 20 years. Let's say at 25 she's getting married, wedding's happening. So, it's 20 years. If you invest a hundred bucks a month, starting from nothing in an investment account, non-retirement, so just like a taxable brokerage account in index funds, uh you will have $86,000

likely. Let me go 10% to be conservative. That's at 11. 10% you'd have 75. >> And that's 100 bucks a month. >> So 75 to 85% uh 75 to 85 grand you'd have when she's 25. So that's 100 bucks a month. That's very doable. Again, when you have no mortgage payment.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> And that's what I'm actually doing right now is not just for wedding, but you got to think about a car, a wedding, a down payment as a gift. What are houses going to cost? How can I help my kid get a leg up while they're young adults?

>> I think it's more that. I think it's just the savings for future purchases in

life, right? College. Yes. If you want to help them in some other way, um down

payment you mentioned or Yeah. wedding, all of that. >> And there's no obligation. You're not a bad parent if you can't help with these things.

But if you can, and you definitely can when you have a paid for house following the steps, it just gives you more options and flexibility and more room to be generous. So, I love this question. Brooklyn, you are nailing it. You and your husband are doing the exact thing we would tell you to do.

So, keep it up. Pay off the house first. AJ is in Nashville. Up next, AJ, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Great.

>> I'm doing pretty good. Um, wanted to call in. So, my fiance and I got engaged uh last March and the wedding is in July this year. >> Woohoo. >> U, I already had a house and everything,

so she just moved in with me about a year and a half ago. Uh, so I paid a mortgage and kind of feel house broke, I

reckon. Um, she makes a little more than

twice what I make. Um, and I know she'd help if I asked her to, but with her student loans, credit cards, and just I

guess miscellaneous things like the her wedding dress, stuff like that. Uh, money's tight for her, too. So, my question is, I know Dave's generally pretty uh traditionally against it, um

but would it be easier for us to combine finances early since the wedding's in 5 months or just hold off on it and then, you know, hit the ground running from there?

>> Uh yeah. No, I would not combine finances till you're married. Um I would have her be working on her debt and you

working on your financial situation. And then when you guys get married, combine.

And then if you are out of debt and she still has debt, then your income will be going to help her pay off her debt. And you know, you guys are focused as a household on that. So AJ, how did you afford the house um before she moved in?

Because you said you you had a house and then she ended up moving in. Um but it's it's still stressful for you. Is it too much house?

>> Um I'd argue it is, but it's uh when I

bought the house, it was in 21. Um, I was in a sales role, so I was doing really well. Um, and then some things

happened with the customers I was working with, so I kind of just took a

hit. >> Oh, gotcha. Okay. Okay.

>> Are you still in a sales role?

>> No, I still make commission, but it's more of a support. >> Okay. When you guys combine in July after you get married, because that's soon. I mean, you guys will be, you know, it's a couple months. Um, will the

mortgage then between both of your incomes be about a fourth of your take-home pay?

>> Uh, monthly take home pay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay, perfect. Okay, so you guys can afford the house once you guys get married. Um, but yeah, but um but to

answer your question, no, I would keep everything separate until you get married. >> The scary part is that she doesn't have housing expenses and she makes double what you do and she's still paycheck to paycheck.

>> Yeah. So, she's got her loan debt. She just paid her car off. Um, she I think

the way we grew up is really different.

She's been pretty much on her own since she was like 15. Um, so I think it's

just was a matter of how we look at it.

>> Yeah. Is she paycheck to paycheck, AJ, because she's paying off debt or is she just paying minimum payments on everything?

>> I think it's minimum payments. I think lately she's kind of kicked it into another gear where she wants to try to get everything paid off before we get married or at minimum before we have kids, which was ideally two years is a timeline for that.

>> Okay. I would just dig into this and get aligned on what the goals are going to be. It sounds like she is aggressively paying off the debt. I don't think she's just sitting around comfy going, "Well, we'll just deal with it when we're married." I like the attitude of what how cool would it be to have this debt paid off by the time we're married.

So, I mean, it's going to be tight until then. I don't think it's an if you were like, "Hey, listen. I it's tight for me to cover all of the housing expenses on my own right now." I don't think it's terrible to ask her to pitch in. And if you did it, you know, I'm old school.

I would have just said, "Let's not move in together before we're married." But, you know, you guys have made those choices already. We're not going to evict her at this point. I don't think that probably wouldn't go over well for you. But, I would get on a game plan of here's what's going to happen from, you know, March through July.

Here's how we're going to handle the finances.

>> Yeah. But I think my fear was on asking her initially when she moved in was I didn't want her paying towards like a house if she's not getting anything out of it. I think that was a big thing.

>> Yeah. I mean, unless it's quote unquote rent at that point, right? If you had a roommate, they would be paying rent. Um,

but yes, no, I hear what you're saying because her name is not on the house, but when you guys get married, yeah, combining assets and everything is is a big >> I mean, it will end up being half hers in a sense once you guys are married.

So, >> yeah, >> I mean, you did the front end work. So, either way, I believe all marital assets should be combined, one account, not keeping your separate accounts for fun money. Just do it all out of one joint checking account. Do a budget, keep a high yield savings that's again joint that you both have access to. That is the key to a great marriage. as it relates to money.

>> Okay, >> good luck, my man. >> Great job, AJ. >> I'm going to send you uh Financial Peace University as our premarital uh counseling gift. It's one of the best courses to get on the same page and to light a fire under you guys, to start dreaming about what life is going to be like as a couple as you build wealth.

Thanks for the call.

It's It's wild how relationships and money get so intertwined and they it can get heated quick. and he's trying to avoid the uh I don't know want to ask her because she's working on her thing and do we combine. >> Yeah. And I think the most important conversation is when July happens and we are a married couple.

What does life look like? And painting that picture is really important >> cuz you probably both have very different pictures right now. >> Yeah. If you haven't talked about it, you do.

Yeah. Absolutely.

>> This is what I want to be. >> That's rare. >> Yeah. So, the more aligned you guys can be before the wedding day on again every topic in life. This happens to be we're talking about money here, but um on everything that Yeah. I mean, there's just more clarity, more direction, and a

little bit more enjoyment cuz you're walking the same path together through life versus competing, right, or butting heads in it. So, um yep, AJ, great question and good luck to you guys. It's exciting. It'll be here before you know it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Tax season is upon us. If you want free checklists and guides that will help you file, go to ramiesolutions.com/taxes.

We've got you covered for all the resources you need. Elaine is in North Carolina up next. Elaine, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, what's going on?

Um, well, I am recently widowed. Um, my

husband took care of all the finances. I

am 64.

I'm I'm in good shape. Um, in regards to

finance, I just don't know exactly what

I'm doing. Um, so I have about

$3 and a half um million dollars in a

high yield savings right now. I have two

homes probably worth right under another

million. Um, I know I will eventually

hopefully this year be selling one of the houses and um I do have an

appointment next week with a certified

um financial planner, someone that I

trust and um that >> um so my question to you is

um do I just deal with one financial planner or

do you should you split up your money

and do it with different people?

>> Um, I'm I'm comfortable with one. Um,

having someone in your corner that that you trust and you look at I mean I I think having a team of people is wise, like having someone, you know, a tax pro in your corner for taxes and and different things. So, there's different elements of money that I would >> okay >> probably bring some people in just to make sure you have expertise in these areas. Um, but when it comes to specifically investing and looking over

your entire financial picture, um, yeah, if you had one person again that you you trust and that you that you know that

you um at least know the history of even

other people they've worked with, you know what I mean? Like that that they are reputable. Um, yeah, I would be comfortable with just one. And I say that because my husband and I, we just, we have one, >> um, that we use and that we've used for 10 years.

Um, >> so, so they'll be able to look at this 3.5 million and say, "Hey, how much of this do we want to leave liquid? How much of this do we want to >> maybe put in into the market so that it grows?" And, you know, maybe you can live off that and um, and even have some, you know, when you pass away to pass on to your kids, right? And so, um, whatever that that legacy looks like for you guys because what a wonderful position that you're in, Elaine, I'm so >> so thankful for that.

>> Um, but I'm glad the financial piece isn't a stress factor in this.

>> Yes, I'm very thankful

>> to my husband and to God.

>> Yes. >> I have one more question for you.

>> Yeah. So being 64, I don't yet have

social security. My husband would have

been well he passed away. Um he would

have been 65 this year. So I was told

and I'm just wondering because I've heard from different people. Um I was told though that I should not take social security right now or claim his

um because I really don't need it right now. And I never worked really outside

of our home. I did the whole wife and mom and >> you know all of that stuff. So um what I

would get in social security would be minuscule. And I've been told that if I

wait till what later 60s7 that I would

get all of his what he would have had.

>> Yeah. At 67 they'll be full retirement age. So you'll get 100% of the benefit.

And if you take it now, it's reduced.

>> And so because you don't need it, I mean, you're 3 years away. You got three and a half million. I would just wait.

>> And you're you said you're healthy.

>> Yes, I am healthy.

>> So the the longer you live, the better of a deal it becomes to take social security later. And obviously, you know, God only knows how long we get to live.

But in your case, I would be waiting till 67.

>> Okay. And that's actually what um my financial planner said, but like I was talking to some friends and they were like, "Well, you don't know if you're going to live that long and you could, you know, take it now and then if you don't need it, invest that." >> So, but um >> Well, the truth is you're going to be fine either way, Elaine. I mean, social security is a drop in the bucket compared to the legacy that you guys have built on your own without the help of the government.

>> Okay. All right. Well, that >> really helps me. That gives me a lot of confidence. >> Yes. Can I ask the um the 3.5 million,

was that part of that life insurance?

Was that you guys over decades saving?

How did you guys How did you accumulate that much?

>> It was both. Okay. It was both. Um I just got a My husband always had life insurance. Praise God. Um, and then he

was a very hard worker and we did in in

fact we employed the Ramsy program years

ago and before our children married we

took them to Atlanta to see your father

and go >> to you know before they got married and we were like you need to do this you know >> prerequisite. >> So great Elaine. Oh my goodness. What?

>> Well, and I would and I would wait too, Elaine, we do say usually if there's some type of, you know, tragedy or death that it's okay to wait a year, right?

Just to um I don't know how u when he

passed away, but you can have some time.

There's no rush to do anything. Um so if you feel a little stressed or or questioning or not understanding, you have time on your side. So don't feel um any urgency from this financial planner to do something today. You know, you can you can wait a little bit and and that's okay. It's whenever you feel comfortable and any questions you have for this financial planner, ask and fully fully

understand before you put your money into whatever you're putting in. Um, so I would say those two things.

>> Okay. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. It helps me a lot.

>> Well, thanks for trusting us with the call and I'm so sorry for your loss.

>> Lucy is in Lewisburg, West Virginia up next. Lucy, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you guys? >> Great. What's your question?

>> So, I just turned 30. I've got a four-month-old uh married um last year as well. And um my grandparents when

they were still alive, they had built a cabin that could comfortably hold at

least 12 to 18 people overnight. So, they made it as a vacation home for us because of what we do. We're farmers. Um we don't get to go on vacation very often. This is kind of close to us. But my grandparents left the entire cabin in my four well myself and my four other siblings names. So there was money to

maintain that cabin and it's drying up.

In other words, you know, we're running out to the bottom of it. And right now our farm is currently bankrolling it. So

we estimate about >> 8 to 10,000 a year is what it costs to maintain the cabin. That's everything.

And maybe a little bit extra if we have um stuff happens, you know, quick fix and stuff like that. But um I know for

So I'm 30. I have another sibling that's 27, one that's 25 and 20, gosh, 24, and

then 18. So my question is is that the

farm is not in a position to bankroll

this for a long time. you know, it's a farm. We'll take care of it for, you know, what it needs. But when does it ultimately become the responsibility of my siblings and I to pay for this? Because we own it. But we have guests and friends that stay in it too at no charge. So >> yeah, you guys are going to have to just create some kind of um document honestly

and rules and boundaries around this property cuz five five people owning a

property is is pretty difficult. And so um from >> it is and the biggest thing is that I know at least so my brother the only boy

um he will probably we've talked about it in our family before he will not financially be able to contribute to this camp um year after year. So we estimated you know between 15 to $2,000

a year each of us give into the camp to kind of um you know help help >> you might need to just buy his portion out and he doesn't own it anymore if he can. But that's the thing though. My parents alive. Like he shouldn't do that. Just pay for his part. You know, he can't do it. So someone needs to help him. >> Shared ownership means shared responsibility. And so it doesn't really matter what your parents feel like you should do. He owns a fourth of this. So a fourth of it is his responsibility.

And if he can't pay it, you guys can be generous for a little while and chip in.

But long term, you're going to have to figure out if he should be a part of this or not. And that's going to be the harder conversation. Wishing you the best as you have those conversations. But I like Rachel's plan. Make a document. Make it very clear so that nobody goes, "But I thought that's not what you want."

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz this hour taking your calls at88255225.

Hannah is in New York City up next.

Hannah, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you guys >> doing? Great. How can we help?

>> Um so basically my question is um my

husband and I own a gym here in New York City. Um, and about a year ago, right before I had our baby, we decided to

move into the basement of the gym, um, to save money on rent and then kind of make it so that I could be a stay-at-home mom and run the business at the same time. Um, and in that year,

because we were um, like able to save so

much money, we paid off $70,000 of our business loans. Um, but we still have about $120,000 in debt. Um, and we're

trying to decide when to move out. Um, because we're not technically supposed to live here and it's not the most comfortable living situation, but we do want to pay off the rest of our debt.

>> Oh boy. So, when you say technically, do you mean it's not legal?

>> Um, it is not zoned for it.

>> Oh boy. Well, that poses a problem.

>> Yeah. I mean, one is the actual legal implications. Another one's just the integrity of the situation on top of the risk that you're putting yourself in, especially with a baby.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, is it even safe to have a baby there? >> It is safe. It is. It meets all the requirements of the windows being above

ground and um plant the ceilings being

high enough, all of that. It's just the zoning. >> Got it. Well, the real question is why can't you guys afford rent and start to knock out this debt?

>> Um, we I mean in New York City, rent is

so expensive. Um, we were paying >> $3,000 a month for an apartment um that

was basically, you know, a closet. Yeah.

>> Um, so >> can y'all afford to live there, Hannah?

I mean, you're you're not paying rent right now, but in order to, you know what I mean, have the four walls, what we call them, food, shelter, utilities, transportation. In order to survive, you have to be able to afford it. Will you guys be able to?

>> Um, I think so. We went from last year when we moved here, we were only bringing in a gross $40,000 a month for

the gym. Um, and we've improved that by $25,000 a month. So now we're bringing in about $65,000 a month.

>> Nice. How much of that do you take home?

>> Um so last year we were taking home

basically nothing. Um but now we're

probably taking about 10 to 15,000 a

month. >> Great. Okay. So let's play this out.

Even if you're spending four grand a month and you make, you know, 15, that's

still reasonable. And of course everything's just going to be more in New York City. But >> it's not like you guys are making five grand a month and you're paying four grand in rent, >> right? Yeah. And we could probably pay the same amount of debt off that we were paying last year.

>> Yeah. I would make that a goal of let's still attack the debt aggressively and have a place that is that we can legally live in and rent even if it slows you down. >> Yeah. Because eventually you're going to have to move. You know what I mean? So, I think I would rather be on the proactive end of you all choosing than versus, I don't know, getting fined or something found out. You know what I mean? And it's like a force situation >> or get sued by the city. I don't know.

>> That sounds like I'm I wouldn't put it past New York City. >> I know, right? I mean, for real. Yeah. I would be I would be making this move soon. Um, and just to set up a home and set up a you know, a place that you guys are going to be for a while. Where did you guys move from?

>> Um, just a couple blocks away.

>> Oh, okay. Gotcha. Okay. Cuz when you said we moved here last year, I didn't know what that meant. So, okay. >> Yeah. No, we just moved here last year.

We actually did. The inspectors did come and look at it cuz someone reported us.

Um >> Oh, boy. So, you already found out >> you're fine. >> Yeah, but they didn't. They said that we were okay.

>> Wow. >> New York City is just a wild place.

>> It is a wild place. So, that's why we weren't we're not too worried about it.

Um, but it would be nice to have like more of a real house. Yeah. Right.

>> I would make it a very urgent goal to get out of there and get your own place.

Now, what makes up the 120,000 in debt?

>> Um, what's left now is credit cards is about 40,000 and then I have 80,000 in student loans. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> And are those broken up into smaller debts and multiple credit cards?

>> Yeah, it is multiple. So, I would just debt snowball this and you're going to just try to live as frugally as you can, which I know is saying a lot in New York City, paying four grand in rent, but anything that isn't your four walls and insurance, we're going to try to chunk at this debt. And that gives me some urgency to also go, hey, how can this business make even more?

>> How do we really continue to scale this thing? Because then if you can keep that up and you're debtree, you guys are going to be living beautifully in New York City. >> Yeah. Yeah.

That's very exciting to think about. So, I think this is a very doable plan. As long as that 65k a month is sustainable and it's not going to go down to 40 or 30 in the next few months, then, you know, spending four grand a month on rent, >> you know, if you need a slightly nicer place, you don't need to go crazy. But I think four grand a month will get you something a whole lot better than the three, right?

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Okay. The goal is to keep it around 25% of your take-home pay, which I understand a very high cost of living area like New York City. It might be a little over the parameter, but the goal is to not have 50% of your take-home pay going to rent, and you guys are on the path to that.

So, thank you so much for the call. >> Stephen is in Lynchburg, Virginia, up next.

>> Hey, how are y'all doing? >> Great. How can Rachel and I help?

>> All right. Well, um, I'm 21. I'm a

senior in college and I'm planning on graduating debtree and my grandfather

passed away in October and I just turned 21 and I found out that I've inherited about $50,000 and I like to know what to

do with it. Y'all were recommended by a friend. So, >> we came highly recommended call a friend and Stephen called us George.

>> Great. So, uh you said you're graduating debtree. Do you have any other debt? Car loan, credit cards, anything like that?

No sir. >> Okay. >> How much do you have saved right now aside from the 50k? >> Um >> not a whole lot to be honest with you.

>> Okay. >> And um are you you say you're graduating in May?

>> Yes ma'am. >> Yes. Uh what are you going to do after graduation? Do you know?

>> That is one thing I'm trying to figure out currently. >> Okay. Okay. Um you know what, Stephen?

You know what I would do? You're probably going to hate my advice, but I would put it in a high yield savings account and I wouldn't touch it and I

would just let it sit there. Okay?

>> And I would force yourself, not force,

that sounds terrible. I would um I would make myself when I graduate college to find a job, start >> um living a lifestyle on the salary that I'm making and create a life for myself

and then when you're somewhere that is

settled and that you know, okay, I'm probably going to be here for a bit, then I would probably use part of that 50 grand and other money that you're going to be saving from your first job as an emergency fund and then possibly a down payment. for a home.

And >> do you know what high yield savings accounts you would recommend?

>> Oh, yeah. I got the one for you, my friend. We're in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, and they have an awesome smart bundle that they created just for people like you. And it's got a high yield savings account with a great rate.

Also has a no fee checking. And I like that the no fee checking is connected to high yield savings. So, if you did have an emergency where you needed this money, >> you could get it. You could get it easily. So Stephen, my caution to you is $50,000 is going to feel like 5 million when you're 21. That can go so fast. So

don't feel like you hit the lotto, okay?

Because if that's your mindset, you're going to end up spending it and thinking it's going to last you years and years and years and it won't. >> This is not a post-graduation vacation and a new car. This is future Steven down payment money. >> Yes, future Steen. >> You will be so thankful you did it. >> You will be so thankful. Great job.

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Scott is in Sacramento up next. Scott, how can we help today?

Hey, thanks for taking my call. I appreciate everything you guys do.

>> Thank you. What's going on today?

>> Um, yeah, I have a question regarding uh

when it would be prudent to take on new

expenses during the baby step journey.

So, a little bit of background for me.

Um, I starting sometime last year, I just

got sick and tired of being sick and tired. uh started really looking at my finances a lot closer and um I'm in some

debt and I decided to do everything I can to get out of it and I started listening to the Ramsey show about two months ago or so and I'm picking up a lot of uh tidbits of knowledge and and I

think I'm really uh enjoying a lot of what you guys are um >> good for you. So >> yeah, I appreciate it. Um my question though is is some of the stuff that I've heard um Dave and and you all talk about is are some certain types of expenses

that would be um probably probably good expenses such as certain types of insurance long-term disability um

>> uh identity theft insurance uh things

like that. My life insurance policy is like one times my salary right now and I'm I'm kind of in the I'm in the baby step uh two phase right now. Mhm.

>> I would like to know when when during the baby step journey would be a good time to start um paying towards these other expenses that I'm not currently paying towards. And and another one would be like um a will. Um I I heard him talk talk about how you know at age

18 you should be getting a will or even financial case university. Um you know

any kind of expenses that I feel like would really help me in my >> financial uh journey.

>> Yep. No, they're great questions. Yeah, so some of these insuranceances, yeah, I would say are probably a a requirement

um that I would do. So, some that you would definitely want are renters or homeowners, obviously, and car insurance. But, yeah, long-term disability um is definitely one I would pay for. I mean, ID theft protection is is a great one. Uh you know, Xander Insurance is who we recommend for that.

And then for life insurance, are you are you married, Scott?

>> Um that's that's a complicated question.

Yes. Uh, but I am actually in the beginning stages of a divorce.

>> Oh, shoot. I'm sorry. Do you all have kids? Do you all have kids?

>> Uh, no. No kidding. Okay. But it it is it is it is amicable. So, um, >> yeah. So, cuz the life insurance, that's what I was going to say to have just term life is if someone's dependent upon your income. >> And so, um, so yeah, in this situation,

I guess depending on if you have to pay

alimony, I don't know what that would look like. Um, but if it all comes out that you guys are not, if there's nothing financial that you're tied to her in any means, because you guys, especially because you don't have kids, you may not need a ton of life insurance. It's really if someone's dependent upon your income.

it. >> And then what other do you have health insurance right now through your employer?

>> Yeah, I have I have health insurance. I have auto insurance. I have homeowners insurance. Um >> so it's really life and long-term disability that you were kind of unsure about. >> Yeah. Identity theft as well. Um

>> think about it this way. If the the baby steps are kind of offense to build wealth and then you've got all these insuranceances in place for defense because those can derail all the wealth you're building. When you think about how many people go into bankruptcy for medical costs or a car wreck and you were underinsured and now they're suing you for hundreds of thousands of dollars, that's the kind of stuff that you need to transfer the risk to the insurance company and it's well worth the cost.

>> Yeah, correct. >> How old are you? >> But is it something Is it I'm 41.

>> Okay.

What was that? Is it something I should be is it something I should be looking into getting right now even though I've I've I really I've just started getting

Gazilla intense um as you guys put it.

So >> yeah, the insuranceances are not a baby step it's a prerequisite to doing the baby steps and so I would get a will in place and if you want help with that we've got a great partner with Mama Bear Legal Forms. Um, you can create that online and they're, you know, created by attorneys, but you can just fill it out all online. So, it's super easy and it's it these are pieces of the puzzle, especially at 41. I don't know what the rest of your life looks like. Will you get remarried?

>> Maybe, right? >> I hope I hope so. And so again, life insurance, you might want to get it now while you're young and healthy because it's only going to get more expensive and you can lock in, you know, a 25 year term so that you know you could get married and have kids and you're covered for until you're, you know, in your 60s.

>> And so there's things that you want to sort of think about future, Scott, and what he would be thankful to have. And I would just get it all priced out and you don't need like millions of in dollars of life insurance. How much do you make a year?

>> Uh, about 120 right now.

>> Okay. So, you'd be looking at like a, you know, $1.2 million policy or maybe even a little more if you want to go 12 times your income. And you might find that it's pretty affordable. And yes, it slows down your debt a tiny bit because it's going to cost you, I don't know, 80 bucks a month or whatever it ends up being.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. And stay on the line, Scott, because Kelly will pick up and we'll give you Financial Peace University and a year of every dollar, our budgeting app. >> Just as a as a thank you as a new listener, >> there's an insurance lesson in Financial Peace University. That's juicy stuff.

Dave really crushes it on the insurance lesson. Rachel made sure he >> need to binge it. It is. >> I Rachel, hey, do you want to do this lesson in Financial Peace University? >> I said, it's too good. I'm going to give it to Dave. I'll let Dave do it. >> He loves it. He loves the deductible.

>> We love a deductible. >> You're asking the right questions. I appreciate the call. excited for you.

Yeah. Sorry about the >> Yeah. Not a fun situation. >> The divorce stuff, but excited about the money piece.

>> Usually it's when those the life changes happen is when you sort of take stock and go, am I do I have am I doing all the right things? >> That's a great point. People when they get when they have babies and they do the same thing. They look up like, "Oh my gosh, what have we been doing?" You know, it kind of Yeah.

>> Yeah.

We have an awesome coverage checkup tool. With just a few clicks, you'll kind of know where the blind spots are when it comes to insurance and we'll connect you with the people that we trust for all of that. >> Yeah. But in high level, Xander Insurance for ID theft protection and term life insurance is great.

Mom and Bear Legal Forms for Will. So, just some resources for you guys out there that are wanting to uh wanting to get your insuranceances in place as well. >> Want to get a little nerdy and sleep better at night. That's it.

How can we help, Julia?

>> Hi guys. Um, so I just recently got my

work bonus. Um, it was about $14,000

after taxes. Um, >> yeah. And I have about $32,000 in debt.

And I'm trying to figure out what is the best way to pay down some of it with my bonus. I have about 15,000 in savings

for a long-term emergency fund and a,000

for a short term. So, I don't really feel like I need to use it to amp up my savings. I want to try to tackle the debt. However, half of it is no interest

and some of it is very low interest. So, following the debt snowball, I could pay down the lower balances, but there's 0% interest. So, I'm trying to figure out, does it make more sense to knock out the ones that have a little bit higher interest and pay it down that way?

>> Well, the truth is you could be close to debtree as soon as this bonus hits because you'll have $30,000 in cash spread out, right? between the bonus and all this emergency fund.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it really won't matter much if you do it the Ramsay way, which is leave the thousand dollar emergency fund, but take the bonus plus the full emergency fund.

That's that's going to be 29,000 out of the 32 and you can knock out almost all of it. And at that point, just knock out the lowest balances and free up those payments faster. And then you'll have three grand left. And so, the interest is really not going to matter.

>> Okay. My only worry, and I feel like this is probably a worry a lot of people have when they have an emergency fund, is like it took me a while to get there.

>> Yeah. But you also have it, >> but you also have 0% interest.

>> Yeah. But you also have a ton of payments right now. So if you if you were debtree today, how much money is going out the door in payments?

>> Um, so payments are 900 a month I pay.

>> Okay. So, let's say you were gazelle intense and that's baby step three is to bump up your emergency fund to three to six months of expenses. So, what if you threw an extra $1,000 a month at that emergency fund plus what you were paying uh your payments, you could in 10 months you could be back up to where you are and completely debtree.

>> Okay? >> You just got to be intense about it. Do you know what I mean? >> It takes a mental shift to go, "Oh, I'm actually not safe having this money over here because I owe 32." the risk is still there. >> Yeah. So, getting rid of the risk, you will stock up that money really fast.

And I highly doubt you're going to have a $20,000 emergency while you're trying to build this up. So, we're rooting for you. Follow the plan. It works.

Hey guys, George Camel here. Do you ever feel like insurance companies only care about your money and not what you actually need? Well, there's a better way. When you go to Ramsay's Insurance Resource Hub, you'll start feeling confident that you're getting the right coverage that's truly best for you.

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Sarah is in New York up next. Sarah, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Yes. Hi. How are you? >> Good. How can Rachel and I help today?

Um I'm just a little confused. I one I

have some money like that I don't need right now and I was thinking I'm investing it. I just don't know like who to trust and what to do. I'm not very savvy. Um that's one of I had. Um

another one I had is that um I want to like buy a car. Do you suggest buying or leasing?

>> Okay. So I think you broke up on us a little bit, but you have cash you want to invest. You don't feel super confident, not super savvy on that, and you want to know about buying a car and what the best way to do that is.

>> Yes, correct. >> Okay. How much money do you have right now? >> So, right now I have about um I have close to 100,000. >> Wow. >> Nice. Where is it right now?

>> No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um Yeah.

Right. So, I have about like close to 80 just like sitting in one account like that was on the CD, but I'm like I want to just stop with CD. I want to do more.

Mhm. >> And then I have about the rest I have in just like my checking account which a little bit of every month, but I make sure every month to leave over some for savings even though I don't have too much. Um >> for sure. So you kind of have an emergency fund um that's there.

>> I know. Yeah. I It's not an official

emergency fund. I I never set up one. I just set up a 41 a 401k plan where my um

company overs 3% match and I did that.

>> Nice. >> Like I just started it. >> Do you have any debt?

>> I have zero debt. No, I'm still young.

I'm learning all this. >> You're crushing it. And you you said you're looking to buy a car. Do you have one right now?

>> No, I don't. >> Okay. And you need one for transportation to work or what?

>> No. So, that's the thing. I work in I I take a bus to work. It's not I work in the city. It's not worth like Manhattan.

It's not worth driving. Yeah. >> But like personally, I think it would be nice to have a car. I don't know if I could for sure afford one. I know I could, but I just don't know if it's worth it. Let's let's focus on the definition of afford because most people go, "Well, if I can afford the payment, I can afford this car." And the problem is these >> dealers with insurance.

>> What's that?

>> No, I know I could afford one now. I don't know if I can upkeep long with insurance. >> Yeah, that's that's something to think about. And so, the key is we're going to pay cash for this car and we know the long-term maintenance and insurance costs on top of that. And having the city is like 10x the cost of having it anywhere else. >> Yeah. And a lot of people sell their car when they go to Manhattan. So, do you feel like you really do need one, Sarah?

>> For my freedom? Yeah. At night and like just to get out places that it would be nice to have one. >> Okay. >> I haven't got one till now cuz I wasn't sure. I don't know. I just open the 401k and I now pay for my own like I paid for insurance. I was on um Medicaid and now I was 12. So, I'm not you know taxes just eats up so much. >> Yeah. How old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Okay. Awesome. How much do you make?

>> I make about 49 years. 49,000.

>> Yeah. >> And how much are you currently investing into that 401k through your employer?

>> I'm investing 6% because I get like three. So I'm investing six.

>> Okay. So you're investing six. They're adding three on top of that. So a total of 9%. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So that's $4,410

is what's happening per year out of your $49,000 income.

>> Okay. So the difference between investing and that CD is a CD has a fixed rate and it will mature and you will make that you know three and a half or 4%. Right.

>> Yes. >> But with investing you're putting this money into the stock market and if you do it right you're going to have a tiny piece of a whole bunch of companies that are doing really well that we're all rooting for.

And what we've seen >> how do I know who to trust and where to go? I'm ready to invest close to 80.

Like I don't need it now. I can invest like the next five years.

>> Sure. So you well you have this 80 and that might be for a different purpose.

And so right now we're investing I would recommend investing 15% of your income regardless of the employer match. So you put in 15 they put in three on top of that. That would double your investment rate right now. How cool would that be?

>> They're invest they're giving me 3% though only for for a 401k plan. That that means I can't pull it out. Correct.

>> Correct. You would have to wait until you're of retirement age. So, if you want money outside of that that you want to invest, you could use a portion of that cash to do so.

>> Yeah. So, >> I'm confused. >> Yes. So, what I would do, Sarah, is I would um I would get an emergency fund.

So, I would I would open up I just go to Fairwinds, that's a credit union, one that we recommend, and open up a high

yield savings account, okay? And put some money in probably three months of of what your expenses would be for three months. and that we can consider that your fully funded emergency fund. So if we were to do that, how much does it take you to live a month? What are your expenses per month?

>> So it takes me probably a little over a thousand. >> Just a thousand bucks. >> How is that? >> Is that rent? >> I live with nothing. I know I live I don't I don't I live with my parents.

>> Oh, okay. So Okay. So for now, we'll say

your starter emergency fund is, you know, 5,000 bucks for right now. Okay.

So, I would just keep that on the side and that's there just in case something happens. Now, when you move out of your parents and you start paying rent, you're going to bump that up, okay? As your lifestyle goes up. Um, then I would

look at my retirement. Like what George was saying, we want to fund 15% of your income into into retirement. So, that means 6% already is going into um this

401k. That means you have 9% left of

what you can invest with your income. And so what I would do is open up a Roth IRA and you can put up to $7,500.

Is that right? Is that 7500 this year?

>> Yes. 7500 per year >> per year is the limit. And so I would do

and figure out, okay, how much of that

9% of my income needs to go into that Roth IRA. So those are that's retirement. Okay. So when you do that, oh my gosh, I bet you could run numbers.

Yeah, George, run did you run some numbers? I what I was calculating here, Sarah, and you can do this at home and we'll put it up on the screen here for anyone watching. I'm using our investment calculator and I'm going, okay, Sarah's 23. She makes 49,000 a

year. And if she invests 15% plus you have a 3% match, that's 8,820 bucks a

year. Are you tracking?

>> Yes. >> So monthly, that's 735 bucks a month is going into that 401k into what we call mutual funds. and that has a collection of hundreds of companies and you own a little piece of those and what we've seen is about a 10% to 12% rate of return over the last several decades versus that 3 or 4% you're getting in the CD. You tracking?

>> Yes, but I did I never put that into the CD. Meaning to say is I only I put the 80,000 into the CD.

>> Got it. >> That's why I got the 80. I put less than 80. >> But as far as a return, like you said, you're like, I want to do more with it. And that's what investing will do for you. It's going to have compound growth.

So if you have a,000 bucks, >> I don't know who to trust. >> So number one, you have funds within your 401k and there's going to be some great funds in there as well as investing outside of retirement, which is where you can reach out to a financial adviser and you can jump on to ramseolutions.com and click on smart vester and you can reach out to someone called a smart vest pro. These are financial advisors that will teach you and help you understand what you're investing into before you make any decisions. So, it's not, hey, here's my money, take it, invest it.

You want someone who's going to help you understand this. And what they'll do is invest you with a very similar >> one to three people. I'm like, I'm not sure who to turn. I'm like, I don't know.

>> You're you're right to be skeptical because there's a lot of bad actors out there who are really just insurance salesmen in cheap's clothing, wolf's clothing, and they're going, "Hey, I got you. How about this whole life policy?" And they make it real complicated.

And so what you'll end up having is a retirement account, your 401k, maybe this IRA, which again is not connected to your employer, but another great place to invest with compound growth.

And then outside of that, you've got the just it's called a taxable brokerage account. And this is a non-retirement account where you might be able to you'll be able to access that money before you're of retirement age. And so think about it like buckets. You want to have a few different buckets for flexibility and options.

>> But can I give you the numbers here before we run out of time?

Yes. >> If you keep this up, you remain debtree and you never get a raise, which we all agree Sarah will get a raise. She's going to make more than $49,000 in her career, right?

>> Yeah. >> But even if you didn't >> from 23 to 63, if you invest $735 and we

assume a 10% rate of return over those 40 years, if we smoothed it all out, you would have $4.6 million sitting in that 401k >> at 63. >> Here's the crazy part. You didn't contribute 4.6 million. You contributed $352,000 of that $4.6 million. 4.3 million Sarah

was just compound growth doing the heavy lifting over a long period of time. So you want to start now. >> Yep. So go and find a Smart investor pro in your area. Interview two or three of them. Get a feel for them. See if you like them. But these are people that we have vetted and that we trust.

>> And if you guys want to check out that investment calculator, I will drop a link in the show notes or description of this episode. So, go click there, play with the numbers for yourself, and see just how many millions you could have to build wealth and leave a legacy.

If you've been working the plan, paying off debt, saving, and changing your family tree, I'm proud of you. And if you're in Baby Step 4 or beyond, it's time to celebrate. The Live Like No One Else Cruise is back. March 14 through 21, 2027. Join the Ramsay personalities

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Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 28:19.

Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits will have plenty of poverty.

Justin Timberlake once said, "If you put out 150%, then you can always expect 100% back." That's what I was always

told as a kid, and it's worked for me so far. Interesting math.

>> So, you got to put 150 in to get 100 back out. Put that in your investment calculator. >> Not a great investment if I pop it into >> I don't know if I would do that investment, Justin. I don't know.

>> Okay. But I guess you really got to overdo it to succeed. You got to go overindex on how much you try.

>> Yeah, I guess so. But >> Oh, yeah. So, if I put 50% in, I get zero out apparently based on this math.

>> That's right. Yep. You got to go above and beyond. >> Got to go all in, baby. >> Above and beyond. >> Thanks, JT. All right. Rachel joins us in Utah up next. Rachel, meet Rachel.

>> Hi. >> Hey. >> Hi, Rachel. >> Um, hi. Hi, Rachel. Um, I just have a

quick question. So, my husband and I just read the Total Money Makeover last week. We like binged it and we're so excited. We're all fired up about getting started, but we just want to make sure that we make the right first steps because we just got a tax return about $8,000 and we have about $4,500 of

credit card debt, but we also want to sell our cars to downsize so we don't have car payments. and we don't think we're going to be able to sell my husband's truck for more than what we owe on it. So, we're wondering if we should use the cash that we have from our tax return to help pay off what we owe on the truck after we sell it or if we should use the cash to pay off the credit cards and then sell the truck later on. >> Oh, great question.

Okay.

>> About 14,000. >> 14,000. And what's it worth now if you were to sell it to an individual?

Um, I don't know, but it my husband's thinking it's going to be less because it's it doesn't have like it's been in a wreck and so it's it doesn't have like a clean title. So, I don't think that we're going to be able to sell it for >> But you don't you don't know 100% though, right? So, I would look at Kelly Blue Book and put in all that information because you'll have Yeah.

history with the vehicle. You'll you'll put input all that data and I would be curious what Kelly Blue Book says. You might be right. Yeah. You might be some underwater or you'd never know depending on when he bought it. You know, sometimes you could sell it for 15 grand. You're actually a thousand ahead.

I mean, we're not sure yet. >> What's your household income?

>> Um about 80,000.

>> Okay. Cuz the other option is just keeping the truck and just paying it off aggressively, >> right? Yeah. It's hard because we Yeah.

We're just not sure if we should like do the credit card debt first or the or the truck loan because I feel like with this cash, we could for sure pay it off, you

know, after after we sell it, we could make up for what we owe still. But if we

don't do that and we use the cash to pay off credit cards, I feel like we will have that drug payment for a lot longer in order to save up to >> Well, if you knock out all the credit cards, that still leaves you with what, 3,500 bucks to throw at the car loan.

>> Yeah, that's true. Then you're down to 10,000. >> And how much is going um to to credit card payments every month? How much are you guys paying? >> Um we've actually we have been able to pay off our credit cards without like the total statement balance without paying any interest up until this point.

Um but we that's the the 8,000 is

basically all the cash that we have. So >> yes, I was just thinking yeah if you paid off the credit card debt that does free up some more money per month.

that's not going to pay minimum payments on credit cards. You know, it's that's cash back to you guys.

>> But you're saying you've never had credit card payments.

>> You've just paid it in full each month until now. >> The statement. Yeah. We've we've never Yeah. >> But now there's a balance that you're carrying.

>> Now there's a balance. It's not due till like the middle of next month. Um so we have we'd have, you know, a couple more paychecks before then, but it would probably we might not be able to make it. I'm not sure.

>> Okay. I wouldn't just knock out the credit card debt. Just debt snowball everything. So, you'll knock out all the credit cards.

You'll knock out a chunk of the car loan. You'll have 10K left on that. You're making 80K.

And my guess is it if you can throw I mean two grand a month, you're done in five months, >> right? Okay. Yeah. >> So, three grand a month, you're done in a little over three months. >> We'll use that cash to do the credit card. >> Yeah. Is that all your debt you got? Is just the credit cards in the truck?

and my car. But we'll be able to sell my car for more than what we owe on it.

>> Okay. >> And still have enough to get something different because you're you're going to need something to get around, right?

>> We actually we actually have a car another car that >> Oh my goodness. >> Oh, well, perfect. Perfect. That's great. >> It's like a Russian doll. Underneath that is another car. Okay.

>> Right. >> That's good news. So you can sell it and be just fine and be completely debt free and then just keep that intensity up and build the emergency fund and then you'll never have to go into debt again. You've got sort of a debt insurance plan at that point.

>> Yeah, we Yeah, we were kind of shocked when we read the book because we're like, "Oh my gosh, we could be debtree in like a few months." >> Yes. That's awesome. Well done, you guys. >> That's a That's the hardest part is just realizing we don't want to live like this anymore and we don't need to.

Most people would just assume, well, you gota have a car payment. What are you gonna do? You can't save up and pay cash for a car. That's crazy.

So, you guys are doing it the right way. We're happy that the Total Money Makeover helped you guys out. It's a great book for anybody out there who's like, "What is this Ramsey stuff? I just want to get on the planet and get fired up." It is the book.

You can go check it out.

Doug is in Sacramento. Doug, what's going on?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. How are you?

>> Good. Hey, so just my question is is

real brief. Um, I feel like my wife and I are doing well. We both have good jobs, but I feel like we're not doing

more with our money because we don't know what to do.

>> Um, we have um an emergency fund that's

15k.

We have um like 165 in a high yield

savings. >> What's that for? >> Um, but it's that that's what that's the

thing is like my wife is this she wants to save all her money. She's like worried about not having any and she wants to save save. But I feel like we should be doing something with that.

>> Okay. Are you guys renting or do you own a home?

>> We own a home. >> What's left on the mortgage?

>> 340.

>> Okay. So, that's one thing we could do with the money >> and it's it's at 3.4%.

>> Okay. And you guys have no debt?

>> I have >> outside of the mortgage. >> Um I have a truck payment. We owe like

it's 460 a month and we owe 20 on it.

>> That's another thing you could do with that money. >> I'm finding all kinds of things that >> we can do a lot of stuff, Doug.

>> We we have a uh we have a couple grand

on credit cards, but we always pay them off. We never pay interest on it.

>> Okay. You're not carrying a balance, you're saying?

>> No, never.

>> Okay. Well, I would, if I'm in your shoes, you're saying, "What do we do next?" I would get rid of any and all debt in my life and then start to tackle the house and also be investing 15%

after that. So, are you guys investing a certain percentage right now of your household income?

>> Um, I don't think a percentage. So, we

both have like Robin Hood accounts that like a friend from work turned me on to and I think I have like 10 grand in on mine and she has like five or six grand on hers. >> Do you guys not have like a retirement plan through your employers?

Um, she has a 401k that's got 360 in it

and I have a deferred comp that's got 78 in it. >> Okay. I would focus on those tax advantaged accounts long before I ever opened up the Robin Hood app.

>> I hate that thing with a burning passion. It's basically the lottery for Bros. >> I know. I know. I know nothing about like investing. So, like that's the only thing that I knew how to do. Like a friend showed me how to do it. I would say investing is in your retirement plan is easier than navigating Robin Hood because they always got something new they're trying to throw at you and get into. So, I would put away 15% of your household income, which is how much? What's the total between the two of you?

Gross household income.

>> Uh 270.

>> That's a fantastic income. I think you guys should be doing a whole lot better.

That means you should be investing $40,000 $40,000 across retirement plans.

And I would start with anything that has a match on it. then move to any Roth type accounts or Roth 401k or you know whatever you have available and then move back to traditional accounts and if you still haven't hit that 15% mark and you maxed everything out then you can go to things outside of retirement you know like a taxable brokerage account but I would stick to mutual funds I would never play with individual stocks I wouldn't touch crypto uh you guys can build some serious wealth if you just start to attack these things in order with some focus >> yeah so getting out of that consumer debt getting a 401k in place and a Roth IRA and you guys funding 15% of your incomes into those.

Um, yep. Is a great place to start and then start attacking the house. You guys have some movement you can be making for sure with this money.

All right, that puts this hour of the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 244. Wisdom With Money Means Moving Slowly | January 9, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of Front Row Seat, a big hit on the Ramsey Networks.

He is Ramsey personality. That is my co-host today. The phone number is 888255225.

Sarah is in Atlanta. Hi Sarah, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh I'm doing good. So my question is that um so I am in a relationship. We are not married. Um but we do just call each other as partners. We're both unhappy. I've voiced it. He's voiced it.

And it's mainly due to our communication style and our lack and our differences.

Like for me, I'm more of a a person like I love a clean house. I love to be supported by like acts of service and um going out together. He's more of a homebody and he's really affectionate.

But I didn't grow up to be like affectionate person. And um when we do

talk about issues um it does become

escalated very quickly such as if we're not seeing eye to eye, he's quick to yell and point fingers and I'm more so just withdraw like I'll go to a different room or I say just talk to me later when you um when you're calm. So, I'm just want to know like how can we better communicate without um or how do I handle him or handle situations when he's yelling at me and um how to do

better with that so he can see my perspective and see see it more like a team issue instead of like he's against me or I am against him.

>> How long have y'all been dating?

>> So, we've been together for five years and we have a child together. M

>> has the relationship been the way you just described to us the entire time?

>> Oh, no. It was way worse in the beginning. So, um, he would >> Well, at least we're trending up. That's I didn't expect that answer. What do you think is caused it to get better?

>> I think it's caused what caused it to get better is maybe I've I'm one of those people like I learn to protect myself like my emotional state. So sometimes I just withdraw and I think of something else cuz in the beginning he was very verbally abusive towards me like he'll yell at me, he'll curse me out like for hours on end like for 3 hours or 4 hours even when I was pregnant.

>> Oh no it's not happening anymore. Like we talked um I talked about it. He was like asking me like why am I less obscession and so on. I'm like well how I can't be affectionate to someone who's like um and trying to purposely intimidate me and he has said before that he does purposely try to make me cry because he says sometimes he feels like I don't have emotion.

>> No, I hear you. Let me ask another question. Is it getting better? Not because he all of a sudden got control of his anger, but because you've just detached so much and you've cowered or you have I'm going to use the word detached for lack of a better word to where he's no longer irritated.

So, you're almost a shell of yourself.

>> I feel like it's better. Uh I feel like it's a little bit um of both. I feel like me detaching um and taking my

emotions away from the situation has made me handle the situations better, such as telling him like I'm not going to talk to him when he's yelling at me or just walking away. That has worked out for me cuz he seems like he finally got the message. >> The bottom line is you all you all suck at interpersonal relationships.

>> Yeah. >> Both of you. Okay.

>> Um and you because you won't set a boundary. You should never let anyone treat you the way you've been treated under any circumstances.

>> Period. And so if you were my daughter,

I would have removed you from that house and left him in duct tape.

>> Oh, >> you ain't yelling at my kid.

>> This is ridiculous.

>> Okay, it's ridiculous.

>> No one should be treated the way you've been treated. And you should never allow someone to treat you the way you've been treated. And um and so that should have

stopped the very first time it happened, not 5 years ago. So the only shot you

guys have got, if you have one, is to sit down with a good coach, a good counselor. We're not that. Uh I'm just

an old guy that's been married 43 years, and I don't yell at my wife, not if I want to live.

>> And so um she's a hillbilly woman.

Frying pan throwing from East Tennessee is a Olympic event. So, um, you know, we

don't we don't do that stuff. So, uh,

uh, you know, we get angry, we have arguments, but we don't treat each other that way. And so, you you guys need to sit down with a good marriage counselor, go see a good pastor at local church and

uh, begin to get some guidance through.

>> You you've got indepth relational training that you need to do. Um, you've got some of the verbiage around it. So, you've been reading or doing something.

So, you you know, you picked up a few things along the way, but I don't think on a call, one phone call on a podcast

that two old dudes can tell you how to fix all this. >> Hey, whoa. Easy, easy with the old. I don't I don't I don't know that I'm going to accept that label.

Hey, one >> compared to her. Fair. One thing I final thing I would say in encouragement uh very much because you're not married, I think I would throw a really strong ultimatum. The the the line is drawn in the sand today.

as soon as this call is over. And and that's what we're you're gonna say to him.

>> Then I'm no longer going to be in a relationship with you. I that would be the the one piece of advice. I would drop that today. Draw the line.

It stops. >> And one way this goes forward, healing through therapy. >> That's it. That's it.

Um because this is a really dysfunctional situation. It's not fair to either one of you. It's not fair to him to keep acting like that and think he can get away with it in society. And it's not fair to you uh obviously for all the reasons. So, and guys, you know,

Sharon and I after we've been married 10 years, we've been married 43. We spent about 3 years in the marriage counselor's office. Um, that was about 3 years after we went broke. When we went broke, we couldn't afford Yeah.

We tried, we just instead were just angry all the time. But, uh, but finally, we got a little bit of money and we're like, "Okay, we got to work on this." And the marriage counselor for me, I was telling Deloney this the other day, it was not, you know, people like, "I don't want to I don't need therapy.

What I needed was a tutor.

>> What I needed was a relationship tutor.

>> Yeah. >> Someone to teach me how to talk to my wife, how to how to hear my wife, how to hear my own heart. You know, it's a it's a relationship tutor. >> I like the tutor. You know what it also, >> if you want to call it, it's a mirror. I was like I was like I was going to school. Yeah. I felt like I was going to class. >> That's what I was doing. And I did I learned a lot during those three years.

Some of it I spout back at you people.

But uh when you call in here, but yeah.

Um but we weren't starting from where you're starting. Honey, y'all got a lot of work to do. Um and if you do not do it, um this is going to continue to deteriorate and it's not going to end well. So you've got it doesn't get better unless it gets better. It's that simple. And this, you know, re getting it to where it's tolerable is not okay.

That's not it's not a way to live your life. You don't get the end of your life and this been the definition of your whole life. Why would you do that?

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We would love to have you. There's several hundred,000 of you have already registered. And we've got a oh between two and 3,000 folks going to be in the Ramsey Event Center with us as we're doing it live. Bunch of them already sitting outside here watching the show today. So there we go. It's going to be a lot of fun. You guys look forward to having you. All right. Hannah is with us in Tampa, Florida. Hi, Hannah. How are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I, we're in our 30s.

We have a 19-month-old and no debt. We

take home about 6850 per month. um our

mortgage with taxes, insurance, and the HOA um is about 2,800 right now because

we have of an underpayment of taxes last year and next year it'll hopefully be 2400. Um so we're just wondering if we

should sell our home and downgrade and rent an apartment instead. Um or continue to be in our home. We don't really have much of an emergency savings, about $4,000. Um, and we want

to work to eventually be to be a stay-at-home mom at some point.

>> Okay.

Uh, well, the the deal is this, okay?

You can survive your house paying being 40% of your take-home pay for a period of time. You just can't prosper.

>> There's no room in your budget because you're house poor. And so the answer is

if you can't fix that in a reasonably

close period of time or if you're if you do fix it and then you turn around and quit and it starts over again then that means we have a house that you can't afford if you stay home. Right.

>> Yeah. Mhm. >> And if if your husband never gets a raise and the taxes keep going up on the

or you never get a raise on the household income. Let's say the the payment goes up continually and your income doesn't. Well, obviously that's not sustainable, right?

>> Yeah. >> And so, uh, but if you're in a situation, hey, my husband's finishing up an apprenticeship, he's going to be making double, uh, or whatever, and, you

know, and it's 5 months from now or a

year from now. Yeah, you can hang on for a period of time, right? But as you have already discovered, that's why you're asking the question. There's no wiggle room in your life. No margin to be able to win with.

>> No. Yeah. Exactly.

>> So, are you going to be able to fix this in a reasonable period of time?

>> No, he's still working on getting his bachelors, which is going to probably take a couple more years. And the plan was for me to just continue working until hopefully he gets a higher paying position and then I can quit my job. Um, but it's going to always take a couple more years before he >> What does he do now?

He works for um a hospital just in like their billing department.

>> Making what?

>> Uh I think like $30 an hour. He makes about 30 um I think 35

takehome per month and I make about 31 take home. >> What would the bachelor's degree What would it get him? What degree for what reason?

um either accounting or finance to either go and be like an accountant somewhere or maybe a financial analyst is what we're thinking of pursuing for him. >> Yeah. Uh could he uh does he have margin

to where he could pick up uh some projects, some other clients doing bookkeeping, the very thing he wants to uh get a degree for, but could do some some and I'm going to call it basic fundamental bookkeeping. Could he do that timewise?

Um, I mean with school it'd be really hard for him to have that. >> No, I'm going to say all right. So, what if we drop school? Would he have time?

>> Yeah. Yeah. If if he drops school, then he can learn to do that and then he'd be able to have time for it. For sure.

>> I here's the challenge. If I were sitting with you guys in your kitchen, I would be looking at alternate paths to do the kind of work he wants to do that don't require the bachelor's degree. it might require it, but you know, if it's the type of work and, you know, he can get some certifications, I would be looking at that and and I would be okay pausing school for a season. If he has

to have the degree to do the accounting work he wants to do, then I get it.

>> If he's going to get a masters and get a CPA, then he's obviously got to do it.

>> Yeah. >> But if you're not going to go that route, if you just want to learn accounting, um, yeah, that's way different. And so,

but here's here's the thing. You can't just wave a one and say, "I get to do all of these things." >> Mhm. >> Okay. Not make enough money, >> not and have too much house and quit my job and wait on him to wander through this bachelor's for no apparent reason.

>> Okay? We need to really get nailed down here exactly where we're going, when we're getting there. And then that'll tell you is this house a blocker or is this something we just need to hang on to for a minute and then it's going to be okay? Because if you told me he was getting ready to graduate and you know even in 24 months and his income was going to double and he's going to be making 60 70,000 and you know your income is going to go up and you can figure out something you could do from home even with a baby.

income overall goes up substantially then the house is going to be fine. But you may, you know, but you don't want to trade a house you can't afford for your desire to be at home with a kid, too.

I'd rather you be in a cheap house and be home with a kid if that's your desire. And so, you guys got to make these conscious decisions. But you really, the old thing, you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't do both. Okay. Casey's with us in Atlanta.

Hi, Casey. How are you?

>> I'm doing well in yourself. >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I just received a job offer. I'd be switching from a Thank you. I'd be switching from a work from home position that I currently have to a home health position where I drive around the metro area and provide services to patients in their home. Uh I would be receiving a significant pay increase. Last year I've ended the year for my full-time job with about 64 thou uh 64,000 and my offer

letter for my base pay for my new job would be about 120,000.

>> WOW. >> WOW. THAT IS HUGE. Love it, Casey. Way to go. >> Thank you. Thank you. I guess the question lies um I drive a 2005 Toyota

Corolla. Had the same car since college.

It has over $200,000 miles on it. And the question lies in would you still recommend only $1,000 in emergency

savings and then pouring my extra into my student loan debt? Because my major concern is that with this home health job, my car is my livelihood. If I'm not able to see patients, I'm not able to have money. And because I have an older car, uh I I just kind of am hesitant

about not having a backup plan immediately or having even worse, having to go into debt to get another car.

>> Yeah. You're making But you're making $10,000 a month.

>> Fair.

>> Okay. So, if the car breaks, rent a car

for a month, save up five grand, and go buy a car.

Okay.

>> But the car isn't going to break.

>> I hope you're right, Dave. >> It does sometimes, but if it does, I mean, if it's a $1,000 car, it's a it's a throwaway car, right? We get another throwaway car and we do it again. And you you upgrade to a $5,000 car.

But you just put everything on hold, rent a car for a month, and then go >> uh and rent the cheapest little thing you can rent for a month. Um and >> and then go do that. Um, you're not married, right? You're single.

>> Okay. All right. Cuz there So, there's no backup plan. I mean, there's no other car in the driveway type thing. Okay.

>> Correct. >> So, um, that's what I was double-checking, but yeah, that's what I would do. Um, and here's the thing.

>> I'll be honest. I I am, um, stereotyping

your car.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. If you told me it was a Dodge Neon, I might change my answer.

>> I was thinking the same thing. >> Your car Your car is the ultimate cool hoopy.

>> These cars have so much life in them.

>> Yeah. >> You might get another 200,000 out of that stupid thing. I don't want you to. I want you to get a better car than that. But >> but you know, how much student loan debt have you got?

>> 73,000. >> Oh man. Yeah. You're going to be done with that in about 18 months and moving up in car. I like it, Casey.

Congratulations. Well done. That's what I would do. >> You know, she's got to drive around Atlanta. I just want to point out having lived there for 11 years, you know, if you go to hell and you live in the south, you have to go through Atlanta.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's just the worst driving around. So, we'll pray for her.

>> Absolutely.

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Wayne is in Indiana. Hey Wayne, how are you? Hey Dave, I'm doing great. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, first off, I should just just say that I am signed up for the live stream tonight and Awesome. Thank you. I'm really looking forward to that. >> Thank you.

>> So, I know you have a background in real estate and you've run your own business for literally decades. So, I'm hoping you might have some useful advice for me. >> I'll try. Um, my wife and I have been married for a few years and frankly I refuse to merge our finances because I find her financial habits to be pretty chaotic.

of her work. Um, she is a real estate agent and has been doing that for over 10 years. Um, we tried to speak about this a few times, but it generally ends in tears and not a whole lot changes.

Um, so I'm just looking for, you know,

any helpful advice you might have on how to untangle the business from the personal life and um, you know, how to uh, I make meaningful changes in that

regard.

>> Okay. Now, you you understand that when

you sell real estate, your income by definition is straight commission and is chaotic.

>> Yes, I understand that. That's not what you're talking about.

>> No. >> Okay. >> No, I'm not I'm not talking about like the fluctuations in just making sure

there are certainly fluctuations. Yeah.

No, I just mean like >> So the basically a real estate agent is what we call 1099 or an independent subcontractor. So they run their own business. Each real estate agent owns runs and owns their own business and has to pay taxes as a sole proprietorship or

some some of them actually build an LLC for a crew for for a team. Okay? And so

what she should do and anytime you open a business even if it's a soloreneur, a single person is you open a separate checking account for the business.

It can even be just a a it can be sole

proprietorship. doesn't have to be incorporated. You don't even have to get a tax number. You can use your social security number. So, it would be uh Wayne's wife DBA doing business as

Wayne's wife's real estate. Okay?

Whatever the name is, right?

>> And it's just open in her social and you can put your name on the account as well, but that you have a separate account. Then 100%

of the business expenses

only come out of that account. So, when

she gets ready to pay her MLS dues, her real estate dues, when she gets ready to buy signs or ads or, you know, pay for a

drone to do a get ready to stage a house, whatever it is that she's doing to sell the house, those are business expenses. Groceries do not come out of

that. >> Mhm. >> Electricity for your home does not come out of that. It's only business expenses. And business expenses never come out of the personal account. They need to be separated. This is good business regardless of your frustration.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Because it's very difficult for her to do her taxes if that you have to go and unravel your personal checkbook and pull out your business expenses one at a time at the end of the year.

>> Yeah. And that's that's what she's been doing. >> I know that's what most of them do and it sucks. Okay. And it's horrible. So,

you know, one of the things when we're coaching Ramsey trusted real estate agents, we teach them to run the back office, so to speak, the business aspect of their business. And part of that is basic accounting. So, if you only take business expenses out of that account, and the only thing you put into that account are real estate commissions.

By definition, what's left in that account is called profit.

>> Sure. And out of that profit, you can leave some to cover some of the expenses next month and you can bring some home.

When you bring some home is when I would hold back a fourth of it for taxes.

>> Mhm. >> Because you've got your income taxes and you got 15.3 both sides of FICA.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so you set aside 25% you're going to be really close unless she's making a half million a year and then it's not enough. But if you set aside 25% of your money you pull out that's profits into another account, then she can file her quarterly estimates, which she's probably also not doing.

>> Yeah. That not >> Yeah. And getting penalized every stinking year for not filing the quarterly estimates.

>> It's costing y'all a lot of money this disorganization. >> Okay. It's costing her a lot of money.

>> Uh just because, you know, just because we're not and this is sixth grade math.

>> It's just a matter of the discipline of separation is all it is. So, we run the business over there like we're running it for someone else emotionally.

And then when it has some profit, we take some out, bring it home, hold the taxes out, and then we've got some money to add to the household budget and the household goals.

>> But until that happens, until there's a profit in that account, she's not made money in the real estate business. How many houses she selling a year?

>> Um, I'd say 15.

>> She's making a little money. She's not making much. >> Yeah.

>> Her expenses are eating up a bunch of that. >> Mhm. >> But we don't but we don't even know that >> because we're not doing a good job of keeping the accounting.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, this is an accounting and a business acumen, a business function.

Now, I don't know how to emotionally get her to do that, but that's the proper way a residential real estate agent should handle their business or for that matter any soloreneur out there. Yeah. And my advice is is I I have to bet that Wayne, you're the you're the nerd of the family. >> Oh, I think that's safe. >> And I think that if she's open, if she's

open to you helping you do exactly what Dave just told you to do and you lead on this and it sounds like the tears, the stuff that keeps coming up from the tears is just the frustration between the two of you on this. So, I think Dave just gave you a very simple but actually effective blueprint. And this is where you come in. Not like the the guy on the white horse is the hero makes her feel bad.

Go, you know what, babe? I've not supported you the way I need to support you and I can do this. I'm wired for this. I called Dave.

I got a plan.

>> You got to lead. She she may not uh be

confident of her competence to do this.

>> And uh that would be true of a lot of people. So, um, yeah. Um,

and there are some nerds that sell residential real estate, but most of them aren't.

>> Mo most of them, I mean, this is this is an an industry that has glamour shots on their business card. Okay. So, this is usually not a nerd, right? And so, >> at times, I've seen boas.

>> Yes, I have seen that, too. And we're not talking the constrictor type. Yeah.

But the uh um yeah the uh yeah it's so

so it may be that she's not got the detail wiring that you have Wayne or even that I have that'll force you to do that in order to get the business run properly. Uh, but you know, I if she's

wrecking the car and you can help her drive it and she's willing to let you, then that's a cool idea from uh from Ken to come alongside and support rather than stand back and throw grenades and go, "Wow, you really are stupid about this." >> Well, it's spoken from experience and I'm really glad, Dave, that you just made this point to our broader audience here. Here's what you need to understand, especially if you're in a married situation. You're trying to figure out finances. I'm not wired like Dave.

like me do thrive with a very simple repeatable plan. That was a simple repeatable plan. Every time you sell a house, you get a commission. This is what you do and you laid it out. But for those of you that are the nerds and you're married to people like me, I know we frustrate the absolute snot out of you. And you're right to be frustrated.

But it's very key to point out we are not doing it. In this case, I don't believe Wayne's wife is doing this to drive him nuts. She's not wired that way. Dave used the word wired. It's really important to understand that that spouse will will play ball with you if

you give them the structure that they need, which comes with its own accountability. You don't have to be accountability if you give them structure and a repeatable process. And that's the magic of what Dave did decades ago with these baby steps. But in that advice he just gave that will bring a lot of relational harmony around money if you understand that your spouse just doesn't even think the way you think.

Therefore, all that process stuff that Dave just laid out, it never enters into their mind that that's how to do it. And I just I think there needs to be grace there cuz I know what that >> I'll tell you what enters into my mind when I'm doing that cuz I'm a great salesman. >> Yeah. >> I always think I could just out earn my >> stupidity.

I Oh yeah.

>> I'll just I'll just going to make I don't need to I don't need to add all this up. I'll just make some more.

That's right. Just then I don't have to deal with it. Yeah, that's how I used to try and it doesn't work. It's really a very immature thing, but a lot of sales people think that way.

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Jackson's in New York. Hi, Jackson. How are you? >> Good. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I recently, maybe not recently, a

few months ago, came into a large inheritance uh from my parents.

>> Wow. >> Um, and I'm just wondering what to do with it. >> Wow. Sorry you lost them.

>> Um, thank you. >> How much did you get?

>> Uh, around 450,000. Cool. Cool. So, how

long have you been listening to this listening to us?

>> Um, probably maybe about a little less than a year. >> Okay. >> My brother's a big fan of you.

>> Okay. Well, thank you.

I was asking because I didn't know how far to go back to give you the answer.

But um so uh we would walk you through

the framework called the baby steps with that money because we believe and we know that if you follow through and handle money properly after that and during that that it will be the the way that this money gives you the most lift.

Okay. And so that means do you have any debt except your home?

Um, so we actually um just sold our home

and that's what most of the money was tied up in. So right now I'm renting um

and um I have no debt. I just graduated college. >> Okay, cool. Cool. And how old are you?

>> I'm 23. >> Wow. Okay. So we sold our home. That was

your parents' home, you mean?

>> Uh yeah, it was um uh my parents were separated, but it was my mother's home.

Um, and it had a lot of my father's money tied up in it. Um, and so me and my two brothers sold that house uh 6 months ago. >> And your part is 450,000.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. And you're 23. Are you married? >> I am not. >> Okay. And what do you make a year?

>> Uh, right now I make 75,000 a year.

>> Good for you. Okay.

>> Thank you. >> What is your uh plan over the next few years? Where do you plan to be?

Um, so right now, um, I'm just I'm just

renting with my brother, um, in our hometown. Um, >> and I plan, so I'm working in, um, the city, um, and I live in Long Island, and I'm planning to move to the city sometime in the future.

>> Um, maybe, um, about a year.

>> Um, so I just have all of that money um that, um, that I got from the house that I didn't have previously just sitting in a CD right now, which pays my rent every month. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Not a bad move

for for the first move anyway. That way you didn't go do something stupid with it, right? And so >> yeah, my time, too. >> Yeah. What do you What do you do for a living?

>> I work in financial technology.

>> Okay, good. Good. Well, you're very early in your career, so I predict your income will go up pretty dramatically in the next seven years. Would that be a fair prediction?

>> Uh, I'd say so. >> Yes. And I also predict that the 450,000

could grow a lot in the next seven years. Like if it was invested at market rates, it would double in about seven years and be about 900. 450 will not buy

anything in the city. Would you agree with that? >> Uh yes. >> Not paid for. I mean, you could put it as a down payment, but you couldn't pay for it. And you don't really make enough to pay a payment and put 450 down in the city hardly. So you're probably renting if you're living New York Manhattan lifestyle, right?

Uh, so right now I'm on Long Island.

>> I know, but you said you're moving to the city. >> Yes, but I will be renting. Yes. >> Yeah, that's what you told me. Yeah. So, I'm I'm projecting what to do. In other words, we're not going to use this to buy a house cuz we can't pay cash for it with your current plan.

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, given that, I'm going to tell you to go to ramseolutions.com, click on smartvetor pro, sit down with

one of the people that we recommend, and start learning about investing, >> okay? and put it in some good growth stock mutual funds and continue to keep your dad gum hands off of it. That's been very wise on your part. Very wise,

beyond your years wise.

>> And so keep leave it alone. Leave it alone. Pretend like you don't have it >> and just use your income and live off your income barely, which you barely can living in the city. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> And just let this money grow because if you don't touch it, it will double every seven years.

Sounds good to me. >> That that's about that's about the averages. Okay. Now, so and uh so the

S&P 500, have you ever heard of that?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. That's the basically the bell weather, the mark of what the stock market has done. Closed the year for 2025, up 16%.

It closed the year the year before up 26%. It closed the year before up 25%.

It averages throughout its lifetime a little over 11 up close to 12%. That's

the average. But in the last 3 years, it's done 67% total.

>> So while you had this sitting in a CD making 3%, it should have made e five

times as much.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. So I don't want you doing that next year. I want it to be in a good investment instead of in a CD.

>> Understood? So go over there and learn about it with a good Smart Investor Pro

and uh don't put money in something because I said to or someone else said to, but because you start to understand it and I've got a feeling after talking to you, you'll be able to understand it.

>> Yeah, >> I think so. >> Yeah, this is a mass don't forget something. This is a massive head start for you. And so when Dave's preaching discipline, it's because we realize >> how much of a massive head start this is for a 23-y old who's very upwardly mobile >> in his profession. So >> and you're just leave it alone.

>> You're so wise. I mean, you didn't call me up and say, "I need to buy a Lamborghini," >> you know, I mean, cuz I would have smacked you sideways. I mean, you know, for your own sake, you know, you're just you're just a sharp 23 year old. And um

that you know talking to these guys like this is why I've become such a huge fan and I've got them on our team here of these Gen Z's. There's so many of these Jacksons in the Gen Z. >> That's right. You know I'm not saying he should do this, Dave.

I'll throw this out and see what you think about this, but my head when you were talking I sorry I tried to put myself in his position at 23 no debt and now he's going to be in really good shape. I I would say a small amount of money I would consider a small but enough to make an impact.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. >> I I think it's so really rewarding when we come into money, whether we earn it or it's a gift, and to think about how to bless somebody that you would not have been able to bless before. I'm gonna tell you, it's a really great way to to begin to appreciate the power of money, not just from compound interest that we teach, but as you teach, and you've been making it so clear for so long, live like no one else so that later you can live and give. And that is

such a key thing. And in this case, I think he could bless somebody with some amount. >> I think that'd be a brilliant idea. Kyle is in Atlanta. Hey, Kyle. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yes. So, um I'm actually post college. I graduated about seven months ago. Um and currently my situation is I have uh two credit cards. Now, I know that um that isn't great. And uh however, I am

looking at an opportunity to consolidate those to one credit card that is attached to my current bank with a much lower interest rate because I want to pay it off and be done with it. I don't want to deal with credit cards anymore.

>> What's the balance on the cards? Um, one of them is 2,300 and the other one is a little shy of 1,200. >> Okay. >> And what is your current interest rate?

>> Um, from what I was understanding yesterday, I think it was 20 something.

>> And what is the new interest rate?

>> Um, the new one's 6 to 8%.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're going to save about $350, $375 a year,

>> right? >> That's okay. That's okay. >> It's not bad. >> Yeah. >> But it doesn't fix a $3,500 problem. You know what fixes a $3,500 problem, Kyle?

You, >> right? >> You're the secret sauce, not consolidation. The problem with consolidation is you think you did something. You moved $375 around. That's okay. If you hand it to me, I'll take it. I'll go buy dinner.

>> But it doesn't it doesn't fix your problem. What fixes your problem is you get pissed off about these cards. You cut them up and you swear off of them forever and say, "Samuel L. Jackson, what's in your wallet?" >> Right. Right. You go get your own stinking life and you get these stinking things paid off. What do you make a year? >> Um, so not a ton. So postgraduation I make 17 a year. Um, >> oh god, you're at the poverty level.

What'd you get a degree in?

>> Uh, so I actually got a degree in film and television, but that's not what I'm currently working in. >> Okay. All right. I want you to get six jobs, Kyle.

>> Right. >> It's not a joke. in Atlanta, which is when it's one of the hottest areas for film and television, you could be making uh way more than that just as a grip.

Lighting grip, sound, something or other. Just get on a set somewhere.

>> Just a grunt.

>> Not even a grunt. Oh my gosh, that's incredible. >> That's awful, Kyle. Kyle, you don't work much. >> No, >> you need to work more. A lot more. Like

all the time, Kyle. And that's going to solve this. You cannot hack your way out of credit card debt. You have to earn your way out of credit card debt. There is no hack. There is no easy button. So yeah, consolidate them if you want, dude. But don't act like you did something.

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Code Ramsey. Exclusions apply.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, host of The Front Row Seat, one of our big hits on Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Open Phones at 88 8255225.

Heather's in Fort Meyers. Hey Heather, what's up?

>> Hi, how are you? It's an honor to speak with you. >> You too. How can I help? Uh yes. Okay.

Uh Dave, I am reading uh rebuilding my life after my husband of 30 years walked away from our marriage. >> Wow. >> Um since then.

>> Yeah. >> Sorry.

>> No, it's it's okay. Um since then, um I

have furthered my education and um I

received my nursing degree.

>> Good for you. >> And there's a lot more back backstory, but we don't have enough time for that.

>> Good for But um thank you. Um I'm 54

years old and I'm I'm single and um I

work as a a registered nurse.

>> Uh yearly I am making 90K.

>> Good for you. >> I have just under 100K in my work uh

403.

Um I contribute 20% and my work contributes the the 5%. Mhm.

>> Um and in my um high yield savings account um I have 170K.

>> I have zero debt, >> no student loans. However, I rent

because I'm just not sure at this point in my in my life like what my next step

is going to be where >> Yeah. How long ago was the divorce?

>> You know, it it's been four years.

>> Okay. You're amazing. You've done a great job recovering. Congratulations.

>> Yeah. Well, it's definitely been a >> Oh, it's unbelievable. It's a tragedy, but yeah, but you pulled it off, warrior girl. >> Way to Well done. >> Thank you. >> Well done. >> Thank you. >> Cool. So, what's your question? So, I mean, my question is with what you know

of my finances right now and if I um

because I really haven't been con uh saving much money as as much as I could be

because I think I went through a period of time where um I was spending

you know spending my money because I knew I had the money and you know >> you were medicating it's called retail therapy.

Yeah, that's okay. >> That's exactly in the rearview mirror people and >> Yeah. Yeah. Good. >> Yeah. So, I'm really this year um I'm

wanting to maximize as much as I can.

>> I love it. >> So, um I want to, you know, maybe own my own home or condo, but I just don't know at this point, you know, where am I going to be? Am I going to stay in Florida? Am I going back to Tennessee?

Because I lived in East Tennessee.

>> Um so, what would you recommend? And what more can I do to secure my future?

And am I going to have enough money to retire if I, you know, this >> you're going to have plenty of money to retire? You're going to be fine.

>> You're you're going to retire a multi-millionaire.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's what the math says. I didn't just make that up. The math says that. Okay. >> So, let me let me walk you through.

There's two things that we need to do.

>> We need to maximize investing and we need to get a house and get it paid for.

>> Yes. Okay. that that's definitely >> so if you're 11 years from today and you're sitting in a paid for house and you've been putting away 25 or $30,000 a year during that time, you're going to have millions of dollars.

>> All right. >> Okay. So, and the way you'll know that is you need to sit down with someone and help do the calculations and help figure out how to do the investing and what to do. >> The only question on the horizon is which city you're going to be in. And as soon as you make that decision, buy a house.

>> Yes. with that 170. >> Well, it's either going to be the Cape um >> either Florida or East Tennessee >> possibly. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, make once you decide and you don't have to decide today on this call, but once you decide, take the 170 and go buy a house.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> And then and then sit down with a Ramsey Smart Vest Pro. Go to ramsolutions.com, click on smartvester, find someone in your area, sit down, talk to them in order to for us to send people to them.

They don't work for us, okay? They're independent people. They're in the investment business. I'm not in the investment business. I'm in the education business. >> So, uh, but in order for that, they have to have the heart of a teacher or they don't get Ramsay the name on them. Okay?

>> Meaning, they're going to teach you how to do this investing, you're going to understand it, and you're going to decide. But if you put this in good growth stock mutual funds and you average market returns, you're going to have um, you know, several million dollars going into your 70s and a paid for house.

Okay. >> If you stay diligent and stay on this, >> yes. Now, >> if you go back to retail therapy and start blowing everything, then no, you can't you can't act like you're in Congress, right? Okay.

>> So, but but I don't think you're going to because I think you just went through a >> you know, a tragedy. You went through a horrible time. You've got that in the rearview mirror. You've worked your way through the >> all all the parts of that. And now the future's bright and we need shades.

>> Yeah. And you're young.

>> Yeah. And and I mean that um and I I

think uh here here's what I would encourage you. This isn't a challenge.

You don't need to be challenged, but I would encourage you to make the decision about where you want to live based on what kind of life you desire. Not a not a safe not a safe choice because I'm

from East Tennessee. And again, I'm not anti- East Tennessee. I'm sitting next to, you know, Mr. Tennessee here. I love Tennessee. Uh I want to be here for the

for the for the long haul. But I do think in someone in your position having come through what you've come through and financially where do you want to be when you're 65 >> that's you got to choose your future because you actually are in a position to do so because of that great degree >> and now you are highly soughta anywhere in the United States. So choose the place you want to be >> and then let the rest of the future take care of itself cuz financially >> you're going to be fine if you do what you've been doing.

>> Yeah. you keep making this kind of money and you start socking away 30,000 bucks a year, which you can do in either one of those local and you can even make more if you wanted to, if you want to work more because there's all kinds of ER opportunities and everything else for you to go get, you know, you can just work all the time if you want to. And I'm not suggesting that, but if you want to pile up some money, you can do it in your world. That's the beautiful beauty of that degree.

You can work all the freaking time. >> That's the truth. >> And um >> you get some bargains in Florida right now. >> It's resetting.

Real estate is resetting in some parts of Florida. >> Really? Okay. not complete, you know, not a crash, but we're seeing some prices that can be favorable.

And again, you teach this, you know, if you get in in a soft moment, I I don't think Florida's going to be long-term a bad place to invest in a house. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. Very cool. So, I mean, like Ken, you remember during uh CO, we had these travel nurses coming in here. >> Oh.

>> And they were m they had worked like a year on the road during CO. They were getting COVID pay and travel pay and they were making like 400 and 500 grand as a nurse. >> I was on with you one day when we took a call from a gal who had made about that kind of money >> in one year. >> One year.

>> Yeah. And it's not it's not out there today, but I mean they were getting co money like battle money, right?

>> Like battle zone money and they were getting travel money both. And cuz you know it was crazy and they were just loading up man. There's two or three of them we talked to that had you know I had I had $200,000 in student loan debt.

paid it all off this year and put 300 in the bank, you know, like what?

>> Wow. So, it's just a it's a wonderful career field. Um because it gives you lots of opportunities and choices and things. >> So, and you know, when you go through something like a divorce after 30-year marriage, >> recovering from that, >> I can't even >> is not a bounce back.

>> No, that's a claw out.

>> O. Yeah. >> I mean, that's a healing process to get to where you're as solid as she is talking to her. Yeah. >> And she's solid. >> Yeah. >> Very, very neat. Congratulations. I'm very proud of you.

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>> Jessica is in Dallas. Hi Jessica. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. You're breaking up. Try

one more time.

>> Sorry. >> I'm doing well. How about yourself?

>> I'm doing good. Your phone's not. How can we help?

>> Um, yeah. I was just wanting to just get

some advice on um what what's realistic and what's not.

I just need like an outside an outsider

opinion. Um,

>> um, I'm wondering what would be what's a

realistic time frame of having a

business operating before you shut it down due to not

having it not be profitable?

>> Okay. What kind of business?

>> It's a lawn care business.

>> Should be profitable the first month.

Why isn't it profitable?

I I don't know. It's not a lot of jobs

coming in, I guess.

>> Okay. All right.

>> So, we have a lawn care business, but we don't do much lawn care, >> right? >> Okay. Why?

>> Uh well, I I mean, I live in an area

where uh there there are water restrictions, so really you're not

allowed to water your lines.

Um, so there's a lot of dead grass. Um,

a lot of people just are >> So you don't think there's people in the area making a living in lawn care business in Dallas, Texas where there's water restrictions?

>> Uh, well, no. I see people

let their um,

I lost all of that. Try again.

Uh there I do see people other lawn care

companies out there mowing lawns and um

working. I just don't know why it it's

not working for us.

>> Who's us? I feel like we've been too hypothetical. Let's get real brass tax.

>> This is your husband's business, right?

>> Right. >> How long has it How long has he been in this dead zone of business? It's not doing well. How long has this been going on?

Uh, he started the business when I was

five months pregnant and now our baby's

about >> No, no, let me ask it again. How many calendar months has it been? A year, two year, how many years has the business been struggling? How many years? A number >> like the the entire the entire time like

when you say struggling, >> good God. How many months? >> I'm just asking for a number. How many years?

>> Um, like 20 like 20 months. 20 months.

>> Okay. So, two years. You've had two seasons and he didn't make a living.

>> I just feel like there's more underneath the surface here. I don't know if we can identify it because you're asking us for some magical answer as to what does the business book say. But the bottom line is if we can't pay the bills with the

business, there's no reason to have the business. >> Yeah. He needs to go work for somebody.

>> Homeare is not a hobby.

>> So, we need to make a profit. And really, honestly, you should make a profit the first time you cut a piece of grass. There's really not not that much to it. Um, I mean, just work your butt

off is the problem. It doesn't sound like he works much is what it sounds to me. >> Yeah. >> Are you saying that under all this?

>> Your husband doesn't work very hard.

>> Well, yeah, he only does a few jobs a week. >> Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah, I think he needs to get a job. Yeah, so does lawnmowers. Yeah, because I don't think he's got the stuff to go get the business and keep the business and get up out of bed and go do the business.

>> That's correct. >> And so until he gets that stuff going, you have to be what we call a selfstarter. Hello. And um

we're not talking about his lawnmower. We're talking about him. And so u yeah, you need to sell the sell the equipment and go get a job and because of what you're describing there. But no, there's not a magic when do you know when to close a business. You close a business when what you're doing is not working and there's no uh visible hope of it

getting better and based on what you're telling us nothing has changed here that's causing this to trend upward in a good direction. It's just kind of stuck on not so great. I and this is not a

business problem. This is a and I'm not saying this with unkindness.

I'm telling you he has a problem for because here here's here's the reality.

Somebody who's healthy or remotely healthy, if they've got a business and they only have two jobs a week, they are working other jobs while trying to get that going. That would be called a side hustle if he's healthy. So, something's going on inside of him with him that is the source of this problem. It's not the lawn care business and it's not the watering restrictions. That now that's the hard truth, but that's the reality of you two have to have a marriage conversation.

>> Yeah. throw out the Nintendo. Yeah.

>> I mean, am I right, Dave? You've done this a long time. There there are reasons why a guy won't get out and work. >> There's something something. >> There's always something there.

>> I mean, it's not my generation, but some some generations I hear have a Nintendo problem. But, you know, Call of Duty, but the wrong call and the wrong duty, you know.

>> Well done. >> Yes. Well played, Dave. It's almost like you have a radio show. Steve's in Washington. Hey, Steve. What's up?

Hey, hey, Jent. Uh, thank you for taking my call. >> Sure, man. Well, how can we help?

>> Yeah, first of all, thanks for being you. You both impacted my life greatly.

So, >> thank you. >> I really appreciate it. >> Yeah. Hey, so I've had the privilege to

um start over in life. I just got remarried and um and just to a wonderful

woman and but for until June we have to

live separately cuz I made a commitment to stay in my area until my daughter graduates and then we'll uh connect. So

we did our real first budget meeting on Sunday and we're doing the every dollar app. >> How far about are y'all? How far apart are y'all? >> Uh four and a half hours.

>> Okay. And what does she do for a living?

>> She works for the Department of Justice.

Okay. And what do you do?

>> Uh self-employed and I work two days a week uh part-time as EMT firefighter.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Okay. Wow. All right. So, so you got four months of Wow. >> What's your business? >> It's the weirdest newlywed year ever.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. No. Um so, um been working

out of debt and I carry a little bit of debt into this, but my business is property management. I um I oversee a

600 acre private ski resort.

>> So, who's who's moving who's moving after June? You >> I Yeah, I will be moving.

>> Uh >> oh. >> Going into the DC metro area, huh?

>> Well, Northern Virginia. >> Um so, she No, no, she works out the Portland office and I'm going to be >> Oh, they're Oh, you're in Washington State. I apologize. Okay.

>> Yeah, Washington State. Yep. and she is going to be transferred to Billings and so we'll have that confirmation in uh March. So it's uh yeah there's just a lot of lot of little things to figure out one step at a time here. So >> how can we help? Um and yeah, so we're

figuring out like how do we I guess um

communicate well as we still live separately but trying to you know as we become one you know budget together and as we're putting each other on on each other's bank accounts and then eventually we'll become one. uh we figure probably best till after we move in June and but right now just like I'm

I bring in I got uh uh under $8,000 to

go uh to be debtree and she is debtree

but at the same time I carry a little bit of shame like I I I brought this in and I don't feel like like I I I can we

can pay it off but also at the same token >> well we are married so we can pay it off that's what goes with it >> right >> and that's that's just the Oh, sorry.

That's the way it works, man. >> For rich or for poor, for sickness and health and she gets the flu, you'll bite make chicken soup. It's the way it works out. >> Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah. I don't know. Any advice, I guess, in that realm. Um, never Yeah. I This is an

awesome blessing to be in. At the same token, I'm like, uh, how do I do this?

Well, >> yeah. Y'all figured out a real strenuous way to do it. That's for sure.

>> Yeah. No kidding. And um so yeah, the only thing I can tell you is that what you're what you're trying to do is difficult at best when you first get married living in the same house and now you just added like a 10x to it by not being there. So the only way I know to cover that is with piles of communication. Like overcommunicate feelings, overcommunicate details,

constantly be working on a stupid budget

like it was a because that's going to give you a place to talk about all this stuff. So like every night we have a budget meeting on the phone about every dollar and every night you talk about it a little bit. I feel a little bit ashamed about this, but I'm still going to work through it. We're going to do it together. and every night and just lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of talk.

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Wow, somebody's listening.

H So I sat here on the air about um James,

how long ago was that? We're talking about real estate fixes.

That's probably probably a month ago.

>> Oh, yeah. It was about a month ago.

>> Probably right after Thanksgiving and this is this is being recorded the first week of the year. So, I said, "Listen, there's a couple things we could do this housing market." The problem with the housing market is there's always been a shortage of inventory for the last two decades really. And the a shortage of inventory is cause the market to get stopped up. And there's a couple things we could do to l loosen the inventory.

And one is to prohibit the institutional

corporate uh hedge funds and the Chinese

from buying blocks and blocks of thousands and thousands of single family homes and taking them off the market.

>> I would vote for that. >> And putting making them permanent rentals and uh so when you do that, you suck out the inventory and when the inventory is sucked out, the market clogs up and stops. And >> Mhm. >> Today, President Trump says he will seek a ban on institutional investors from buying single family homes. >> Is Is he listening to the podcast, Dave?

>> I don't know. He didn't call me, Ken. I know that.

>> He didn't say, "Dave, I got an idea." That's huge. >> You never know, though. You never know.

He's famous for for watching TV and and news and calling in live on shows.

>> Yeah. >> Maybe maybe he'll call in and you can walk him through how to do it. >> Well, I just No. I mean, I'm I'm happy if it's his idea as long as it happens, right?

I don't care whose idea it is. Yeah, this is the other thing we said, and if you're listening, President Trump, we said this one, too, and I hadn't seen this show up yet. Maybe it'll come up within a week or two.

>> So, here's what you do. Make that $2 million. >> Oh. >> And you know what happens? a bunch of boomers that are sitting on a bunch of equity would sell their houses >> and that would unclog the market >> and put a bunch of inventory on the market cuz they would if you could put $2 million in your pocket and go, you know, to wherever, you know, go buy a condo or move down, move down, some of the boomers, right? They would do it.

But right now, they got capital gains on everything over half million dollars. And half million dollars on a lot of gains is not spit. So if you got no capital gains, tax-free up to a half million. Now what if you made that 2 million?

I promise you it move the upper end of the market wide open and when the upper end moves open then that get leaves it breathing room and everything dominoes all the way down to the beginning of the market >> because everybody can move up then they're not stuck. Careful, Dave. You're gonna give America indigestion.

Because it makes so much sense. And those of you who are listening and watching are going, "You're right, Dave. That would be amazing. Why doesn't it happen?" >> And you can write these two things down because it doesn't happen very often.

Dave Ramsey has a government idea to fix anything. >> Well, no, that's just good legislation.

>> I know, but I just The number of times I ask government for help's pretty close to zero. Well, >> this is one of the few things. >> Both of these things they could do and it would actually have an impact and it really wouldn't take long. >> But why won't they, Dave? Tell America why they won't. Oh, >> because they like our tax dollars.

>> Yeah. >> Well, I don't know who they is, but somebody >> they is all of them up there.

>> The whole kitten kaboodle.

>> It's the machine. >> The machine. >> So, what we do is we got to >> Sounds like you sound like a conspiracy theorist, right? >> No, not at all. Not at all. Throw the bums out until they start giving us policies like this. But it's I I listen really quick. I don't want people to miss what Dave just said. These are two very practical things that would absolutely make a huge dent in this real

estate cog happen immediately. Today's question of the day >> is brought to you by Y refi. When it feels like your private student loans have buried your future, why refi can help dig you out with a low fixed rate refinancing clear path forward. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Jasmine in Tennessee. We're out of debt and have just finished building a 3 to sixmonth emergency fund. I'm anticipating that one of our two cars may need major repairs soon.

In general, how do you think about deciding when to repair a vehicle versus when to replace it? I don't want to panic buy another car, but I'm also wary of getting ripped off by a mechanic. >> That's a really good question. I think that's about as practical of as a fear as we hear.

money on a car if if, let's say, the car is worth 2500 bucks and it costs 3,000

to fix it. >> Well, you don't do that. >> You don't do that. You know, other than that, you want to try to duct tape it, keep that thing going, get yourself a good quality mechanic. Now, I'm passionate about this particular issue, Dave, because I fall in this category where I'm very suspicious, but we have found through multiple conversations with people that have lived here. When we first moved here, uh, 12 almost 12 years ago, I talked to several people

and tested it out like you would a church or a doctor or maybe the person who cuts your hair when we had some issues come up and we found a really reliable mechanic who we absolutely know is not a thief and a crook. And that's important because if you do that, they will help you and they won't try to rip you off. They'll say, "Okay, here's what could be fixed." Uh, but this is the should be to keep this sucker going from point A to B. That's really important when you're in this hoopty land.

Uh, because it will get you through.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Auto repair is a low trust industry. We were really uh pumped about having Christian Brothers come on.

>> Yes. Absolutely. as the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show.

>> And uh we trust Christian Brothers Automotive. I've known these guys a long time. They've had a shop in our area, but they got shops all over.

>> And whether you're just getting started in the Baby Steps or your Baby Steps 7, you want your car to last, we recommend Christian Brothers Automotive, go to CBAC.com/ramsey.

I'll work that into the thing here. Uh they just came on board with us. We're really glad they're here. The answer to your question, Jasmine, is whatever the car is worth as salvage, not fixed, plus

the repair, cannot equal more than the

value after the repair.

>> Mhm. >> So, if the car is worth $1,000 and it takes $3,000 to fix the car at the end,

that's $4,000, but the car is worth two after you fix it. Well, you don't spend that. That's good money after bad. Okay? But you also

look for you may be sitting on a $12,000 car, blew an engine. You don't go to the dealer and buy a brand new engine from the manufacturer. That'll cost more than a new car.

For God's sakes, no. You get a used engine, a rebuilt engine or used engine from a salvage yard, and you have someone like Christian Brothers install it, and you can do that for about 25 cents on the dollar. What I'm talking about with the dealer. So, it depends on what the car is, what the size of the repair is as to all of that.

But by and large, it's a car under $5,000 is the only one you would hardly ever you most always will fix it otherwise cuz you can find an inexpensive way to get it rolling again. Even if you fixed it to sell it, you know, even if you fix it and say, "Okay, now it runs. Now I can sell it for, you know, $4,000 instead of $1,000." And so, but it cost me $1,000 to fix it. Okay, that's good.

That's a good investment, right? So, we can go that way.

They are now the official auto repair partner of the Ramsey Show. John's in

Naples. Hey, John. What's up?

>> Hey, how are you guys doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Good. So, um I'm just trying to get my financial future started and I'm having a lot of issues with that. I have a little bit of, you know, student loans I want to pay off, but I um I have a little untraditional background with school and, you know, how I got to where I am today. And I'm just kind of struggling to get, you know, off the starting line and kind of into the working force and corporate community, whatever it may be to get my future moving in that direction. >> You have a degree?

>> I do. Yes. I have a bachelor's in business and a masters in data analytics. >> And you can't get a job?

I've done about 2,000 applications.

Well, you suck at that. Gotten >> I've I've met with seuite executives of

Fortune 500 companies, alumni from my university. I've spoken to my university. I've spoken to friends, family. I've gone through just about every avenue that I really know how to.

And I don't I I really don't know what, you know, the miss what the problem is with trying to get through and and you know kickstart my career.

>> What's your income target? What are you asking these people to pay you?

>> Usually I'd put on the lower end of um

what their range is. So I've applied from New York to Anchorage. I've put you know anywhere between 80 to you know some jobs are you know 120 to 150. So I put 120. Sometimes I even put under just to try to get through to, you know, HR to get an interview and it's just not even working.

>> Have you had interviews?

>> I've had a handful, but only because I've had internal referrals have >> and that's where they come from. That's where interviews come from. They don't come from 2,000 applications. Well, I tell you what, hang on. I'm going to bring you back around cuz Coleman is about the best on the planet at this. I want him to help you.

Hey,

hey,

hey.

All right. John's got a degree in a

master's degree in data analytics. Has applied for over 2,000 jobs. Has not been able to get a job. Ken Coleman, help the guy. >> Okay. All right. John, so you've been applying for things and you've been in the 80 to 120,000 range. I think where

I'd want to start is what is a layer or

a level rather below where you've been applying. Is there such a thing or are you saying that those entry level are yielding those kind of salaries?

>> Those are the entry level. Um, one of the issues is that I haven't been able to do an internship. You know, I was an athlete in college and I was training over the summer. So, I was unable to go in and actually, you know, make the connections that way.

So, you know, I when I apply for associate or an analyst level, you know, they say, "Well, he doesn't have experience." And my internal reps who have to fight for me say, "Well, you know, nobody at this level has experience because it's the entry level." So, that's kind of how they have been able to get me through to interviews, but most companies just don't even, you know, I kind of get a a email pretty quickly. >> Okay.

Um, I made it down to the final two and then office politics and some other things went on that just were out of my control and just went in another direction. >> So, you told Dave before we went to break that it was a handful of interviews. Is that right? How many are we talking about that you've actually gotten?

>> I've done four for companies that are

actually based like base salary and I've had a handful that are the commissionbased selling insurance. Not really something I'm interested in.

>> Okay. Um I've done every avenue from I've talked to seuite executives, I've talked to my grad school, my university.

>> Yeah. No, I get it. It's a very wide net. >> I totally get that and I want to I appreciate your activity.

But activity in this particular situation is not the the answer. Just activity 2,000 applications, you might as well have been spitting in the wind driving down the interstate because of the nature of AI and filters and all these things. So what we want to do is is we want to get more of those interviews and you've only got four interviews. The conversation with seaueters, those don't always yield what you think either because while they may give you time, I love that you got there.

So you got some spunk. But here's the deal. The simple advice for you is this. You've got to up the amount of interviews that you're getting.

So 0 for four in today's job economy.

Not surprising. uh there's no question that you're up against the fact that you're uh in entry level and so it's actually more competitive right now for entry level roles. So there's no silver bullet here other than this idea that I wrote a book around. I'm going to give you the book as as my gift to you. It's called the proximity principle. Now what the proximity principle does is it increases your odds of getting actual

interviews. And one of the first things Dave said to you was how are you doing an interview? So, I want to know, have you gotten any feedback from anybody that's interviewed you, uh, to where we don't blame it on office politics and whatever, but any feedback on how you could do better in the interview? Do you have any of that?

>> Um, I've done mock interviews. I've >> great >> don't have any issues with answering the questions. I don't have any issues with my background. It's just, you know, I

don't really know other than the companies I've been fortunate enough because of my internal Rex. I don't know why I I can't even get through to other companies. You know, I bought software to to find out who, you know, hiring managers are. So, after I apply, I'll send them an email, my contact information, telling them why I'm why I'm applying. I'm following up with them. I'm trying to do everything that I've been told to do.

>> And I have, you know, I have the degree, I have the grades, it just for whatever reason, the background of being an athlete doesn't help. >> No, not at all. Nobody cares. Uh and and

so so listen, I'm just trying to tell you, you got to stop saying these things. Not even that helps. Here's the simple thing. You have got to connect relationships. And this is hard work.

>> The four interviews you got, you got the right way. We need to do that 40 times and you'll get a job. >> We have to repeat that process.

>> Not not not cold calling something off of software. Yeah. >> And not filling out applications that are spitting in the wind. >> But here's what I would do today if I were you. You need to be working a job.

And I'm talking stocking shelves at Target. NFL MVP, Hall of Famer Curt

Warner was stocking grocery shelves while playing in the Arena Football League. He did that because he wanted to make it to the NFL. I think it's the same story for you. You're an athlete.

That's why I give you that example. But Curt Warner only stocked shells because he had to feed the baby and his wife.

But he did it so that he could stay in the Arena Football League. And for you right now, for you to get in this work,

you need to be working, bringing home income, not becoming depressed because that's what happens. You get depressed pretty quick, get frustrated, and you create this false narrative which will hold you back. So, the best thing you can do right now is go get a J O so that

I'm getting up every day, taking a shower, shaving, and working and bringing home a check while I'm using Ken's proximity principle and repeating the process that worked four times. And the more, let's say it's eight interviews or 12, you're going to start to see a yes. All of those nos lead to a yes. And I I wish I had some silver bullet, but it's a law of numbers, but the right numbers.

Yeah, hang on. We'll get you a copy of Proximity Principle and Ken's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. Both will help you in this process. They'll be our gift to you to help you get moving.

I know you're frustrated, man. And it does sound like you're doing a lot of things right. >> Yeah. >> But you're also wasting a lot of burn calories to feel like you're doing something right and some other things.

So, let's reign some of the efforts the way Ken's teaching and I think you'll see some better results.

My goodness, that's frustrating as crud.

All right, Jessica is in Dallas. Hi, Jessica. How are you?

Hey, I'm good. How are you all?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Well, thanks for taking my call. I have a question about emergency funds versus

syncing funds. Um, so my husband and I,

we learned about you, Dave, in 2020. Uh,

paid off all of our debt except for our mortgage. And each month, you know, I'm using every dollar to designate money into different funds. Um, with our house

syncing funds, I'm just wondering if I'm using it incorrectly. I'm getting a little nervous as our house gets older.

We're going to need major things like new windows. And I feel like the house fund never really grows because of course something always comes up. We need a new water heater, a roof. And so it just seems like every year we're getting money in that fund and every year I need to take some out. And I'm just thinking, you know, years a few years down the line, what if we need to spend $30,000 on new windows? Um

>> well, you need a plan to do you need a plan to do that? That's not an emergency. That's a no, that's a known thing.

>> Well, I'm >> That means your sinking fund is underfunded.

>> Okay. But I don't know that you need to necessarily be funding something for 25 years from today in there. But if you if you think in three years you're going to need windows and it's 30,000 bucks, you probably ought to start now.

>> Well, I'm just thinking I would already have the 30,000 if I didn't take money out of the house fund for repairs. And >> what are you going to repair the house with if you don't?

>> Okay. >> You have to repair the house and fix the windows. Both.

>> Okay. >> And neither one are an emergency. Both are predictable events.

>> Okay. So, I just need >> you maybe need a new sinking fund for windows.

>> Yeah, that's true.

>> And start start because since it's worrying you and keeping you up at night, I don't know. But um you know what what seriously what do you think the time horizon is on that? When do you think you're going to need them?

>> I mean, honestly, we could use them now, but I it's not an emergency for us to use them now. You you know, we we do what we can when it gets cold here. It's not sold in Dallas for very long, but um

but I mean it's it's coming down the line and I I know it's a big cost.

>> So, put put a number on it and put a date on it and back into it and save for it. >> Okay. >> Go get a bid or three and say, "Okay, 36,000 bucks in 36 months. That'd be a,000 bucks a month.

Hello." >> Sure. Yeah. put put a number on it and put a date on it and you can tell what your sinking fund needs to look like and because you got to do the other home repairs anyway and you can't wait and call this an emergency because you knew it was coming. It's like saying, "Oh, my tires are bald.

That's an emergency." No, you knew your dad gum tires were going to wear out. You should have been planning to replace your tires already. >> Too close to home, Dave.

She was looking at my tire treads about 6 months ago. She goes, "You're an idiot. You're literally like taking your life in your own hands. I didn't I never pay attention to stuff like that." And sure enough, she was right. >> I'm glad. >> Thankfully, we had the money for the tires. >> I'm glad. >> By the way, windows in Dallas, if it's a little chilly, I'm getting some duct tape. We're going to stretch this a little bit. >> I'm kidding. >> She may live in a $2 million house, man.

I don't know what she lives in.

>> I wasn't serious. The duct tape.

You can't fix everything in duct tape.

You can try, but you can't fix everything.

I don't know.

Heat. Heat.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality, host of the Ramsey Network hit Front Row Seat is my co-host today. Open Phones

here at88255225.

If you go to ramseyolutions.com/livevents, you can join us this evening. We'll be doing a live stream that is completely

free to help you get back control of your money, take back control of your money in 2026. And we'd love to have you

guys join us. There'll be several hundred,000 people there. We'll be giving away $20,000 tonight on that live stream. So, make sure you sign up for the live stream and that puts you automatically in the drawing. The whole deal is free. We'd love to have you hang out. Jade and I will be doing that. So, Jade Washer and I. So, make sure you join us. Jennifer is with us in Nashville. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

I am so excited to talk to you.

>> You too. >> Here's my question.

>> Okay. So, I'm hoping to retire in 2032.

I'm debtree with the exception of my house, which I still owe 280,000 on at a

2.25 interest rate. My question is, what

should I be prioritizing during my last six years of employment? I would like to pri prioritize paying off my house. and if I put all my energy and money towards paying it off, I could do it before I retire, but it would be at the expense of contributing to my 401k.

But others say that since my interest rate is so low, I really need to be putting all my money in my 401k.

And so, but that means I'd have to take a house payment into retirement and that scares the crap out of me. So, I kind of wanted to know I think I know what you're going to say, but I just wanted to know what you thought.

>> What's your household income?

Uh, I make 162,000.

>> Mhm.

>> Okay. And so you have six years, right?

>> Six years. >> Yeah. >> And I'll have two federal pensions when I retire, which are about 75,000 a year.

And then if social security is still around, like another 30.

>> Yeah. So 6* 4

is 240. Right.

>> Right. >> Yeah. So 6 * 45,000 out of 160 gets your

house paid off, which leaves you 120. Why can you not keep doing retirement also?

>> Um, oh, I I could. You mean take my house payment into retirement?

>> No, darling. $45,000 a year $45,000 a

year from today for the next six years pays off a $280,000 house. 45,000 extra

on the house.

Okay.

>> Yes. >> All right. Now, you make 160,

right?

>> Right. >> Minus 45 leaves you 115, >> right? >> Okay. You could still do retirement and still live.

>> Yeah. I mean it's I know 162,000 it is a

lot of money but you know you got to take out there's a lot of stuff in there also when you take off take out taxes

and um and just everything else that

goes with it. >> What what's everything else?

>> Tithing. Well, okay. So you have taxes which is like 30 some thousand tithing.

My current house payment which is 30 grand. >> Your what? Your what?

>> What' you say? What? >> Your what payment? >> I said my current house now. >> Okay. Well, no, that would include include your house payment because basically I mean $45,000 is more than enough house payment and everything to pay off the house. You don't pay $30,000

a year on your house, do you?

>> Well, I mean, I when I think of that, I throw in all of my taxes and insurance.

That's what I >> I roll into my house payment. That's how I think about it. I see. Yeah, you're right. That's true. Okay.

>> Okay. I just It feels like that you can that you don't have to completely choose. >> It feels like you can get the house paid off and still do something towards retirement.

You may have to cut somewhere. You may have to scrimp somewhere else to hit this goal. I don't know. And I don't know what all is coming out of your check. You may want to look at that.

But, um, you may be thinking about coming home after 401k contributions.

And that's that's you know that's not what we're talking still that's part of the hole. See so if you kept doing your 401k and then it's pinchy to do the house but you could still do 45 total on the house uh in principal reduction a

year not counting interest and taxes and

insurance right but yeah if you did that that would get you there. Um so it's close. Uh what's the probability over the next six years of your income changing?

Well, so it won't go up much. It will continue to grow. I do the other thing is I um I do own a fourth of a farm.

It's in an irrevocable trust now and so

that's vested. Um but you know, I'm not sure when we're going to sell that. Uh you'd never want to say it like that because it means one of my parents has passed. Um, but so there will be about a

half million dollar, you know, income coming in at some point in my >> And how much is in your uh nest egg now?

>> So right now 30,000.

>> Oh, and then my 401k is 480.

>> That's your nest egg. Okay. I knew something was off. >> I'm sorry. >> Can I can I ask a real simple question?

What do you What do you do for the government? What what is your job? How would you describe yourself as a professional?

Uh, as an attorney, I specialize in labor law. >> Oh, good for you. >> And your work for the government?

>> I do. >> Does that preclude you from doing uh u side work?

>> No. >> Okay, here's the exercise. Okay, here's the exercise I would go through. I think Dave's right, >> but I also think you know your budget pretty darn good. So, if it was me, I would not be asking the question, uh, do I sacrifice retirement investing in order to pay this house off? I would be asking the question, how much additional money do I need to make per year over

the next six years to pay this house off? You are an attorney. I know you can

make that money.

>> Yeah. If you made an extra 40 grand a year, this is soft. >> That's one thing to do. You know, it's just a little side thing of some some kind of a side, I don't know, venture or whatever.

Here's the thing. You're going to be okay either way. You're fine. Uh I would pay off the house early.

I I would put the house on a schedule to be done in six years and then I would squeeze what I can out of retirement from working extra and or out of your budget by carefully looking at it. All the things we've talked about because here's the deal.

In six in seven years that'll be if it's in good mutual funds uh that'll double that'll be a million. And then the house is worth what today?

>> Uh 700 something. >> Okay. So it'll probably be worth a million and a half in seven years give or take. Okay. And so at that point, you're going to be worth $2.5 million.

And the farm is another half million.

And that's six years from today. And you'll be how old at that point?

>> Uh I will be 62.

>> Okay. >> And about what? 70,000 in retirement

coming to you from the pension plus social security, right?

>> Yeah. So 100,000 if everything stays the way it is now.

>> Okay. So you're at 100. So you're so you're you're definitely okay if you add nothing to retirement >> and pay off the house over the next 6 years to answer your question now that we dug all the way through this. Okay, but it it took a minute to get there.

But that's exactly you are okay to do all that. I however am like you. I want to be doing something further towards retirement and so I want to investigate these other two possibilities adding some income and or squeezing this budget. But I'm just going to sit down and go, $45,000 a year has got to go on principal. >> Mhm. >> And that comes out of the budget. 6 years I'm done. And you're going to be okay. And make sure your other stuff's invested right in good mutual funds.

Hey, George Camel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

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That's ramseolutions.com/realestate.

Buying or selling a home is a big deal.

Rates are coming down.

Looks like we're going to see 5% or so on a 15-year any minute here. So, uh, good times. Good times. A lot of houses going to be coming on the market as the grass gets green.

And it might be yours or you might be looking for a house. You need a pro in your corner. Someone that's high octane and high protein. The Ramsey trusted program is the only way to find a top agent you trust that we trust.

Make sure your home's a blessing and not a burden. Go to Ramsey Trusted Real Estate. You can find one for free at ramseysolutions.com/agent or click the notes in the or click the link in the show notes. Brittany is in Grand Rapids.

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, I have just a question. I was curious what your thoughts were on if it's a bad idea to pay for our daughter

to go to private school while we are still trying to get out of debt. Um, yeah.

>> Okay. Well, there's a that's a loaded question and there's a lot of answers to it. >> Um, and so it the answer is it depends.

Uh, number one, I would not strain my family budget to where I couldn't breathe in any case.

>> Okay. To do that, >> um, I would not spend $46,000 a year for a four-year-old to go to a private school. >> Um, and sometimes I get that call. So, what is yours?

>> Yeah. So, we are in the process of paying off debt. >> Now, what is your private school cost?

>> It's not that much. Um, we're going between two. The cheaper one is 1,035

for the year. The other one is like 1,400 for the year.

>> I'm so sorry. This is not a school. This is a daycare, right?

>> Nope. It's preschool.

>> $1,000 a year.

>> Yeah. >> And she goes every day.

>> No. Um, so at four years old, they don't do it's only like one of them is two days a week and the other one's three days a week and they're half days.

>> Okay, Donna. This is called Mother's Day Out.

>> This is not called private school.

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> Or run from any school that only charges you $1,000 a year.

>> Well, I mean, they're not it's not a school. This is your kids going over two days a week while you go grocery shopping for God's sakes.

>> Okay. So, if but if you're going to do Mother's Day out, >> um and that's okay. I mean, private, they don't have a public version of that. >> So, private is your only option. And um

what's your household income?

>> Um it's kind of complicated. So I bring

home about 2200 to 2,300 a month. Um my

husband on the low end brings home 2,800 a month, but it could go up to 5,000 a

month >> when >> um so he manages a snow removal company.

So, like right now he's bringing home a few thousand a month. Um, and then he does landscaping in the summer. So, it just kind of depends um if he's working overtime or not.

>> Okay. And you're in baby step two,

>> correct? >> What's your debt? How much?

>> Yeah, we have a total of 303,000.

>> Hello. What does that consist of?

>> Yeah, 277,000 is left on the mortgage. >> Oh, okay. We have 9700 left on my car.

Um 4600 left on my student loans and

then 11,000 left on his student loan.

>> So shouldn't he be doing uh overtime now?

>> Yes. Lots of overtime.

>> Is he?

>> Yes. Yep. He's working the last like average was anywhere from 95 to 110

hours a week. So >> And he's only bringing 2,800 home.

That's when he gets 5,000.

Yeah. No, he actually like last month I think he brought home closer to 8,000.

>> Okay, that makes more sense. All right, I got it. Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. I just filled our budget off of the low end. That way there's no like surprises. So that are you working in

the home?

>> Uh no, I'm a nurse.

>> So who keeps your child while you work?

>> Yeah. So we pay somebody to watch the kiddos three days a week.

Oh, and this other thing is the second or the the other two days a week.

>> Yeah. So, starting in the fall, our daughter is of preschool age. And so, we were just trying to figure out I see >> whether it was a bad idea to pay for her

to go to a private >> if she does if she's there, does that reduce your cost of the babysitter in the house?

>> No, it does not because it would be Tuesday, Thursday, and those are the days that I'm home. Oh, well, I wouldn't do it. I I've heard enough for me. If it was my personal income in this situation, I would not be paying that money. No, >> not in baby step two. Dave, am I right or wrong? >> I I don't have a problem either. It's It's probably not a deal breaker either way, but um yeah, I I Your daughter's

already gone from home uh as a

four-year-old while you're at work the other days. And then you're at home and you're going to send her away from home, too. uh into preschool. I you know I

don't think this well I

uh I'm gonna catch I'm already catching hell. Okay. The um

um having raised three that became successful um the things that they learned when they were in preschool did not enter into it them becoming successful. It's not that

big a deal. Okay. And so, um, you know,

uh, you can make it. You can make it.

And so, >> and the differences for some of the rest of you in one, uh, grade one through six, one school

versus another, assuming the school is not just an absolute hell hole that's dangerous and teaches nothing. Uh but if

you've got a reasonably good elementary school, the differences in that and the one that's $100,000 a year is it's not worth the the bang. You know, it's not worth the cost. So, and the the differences in whether those kids become successful is not based on where they went to elementary school, and it's sure not based on where they went to Mother's Day out. And so, um no, I'm not going to

do it on that basis. The child is not going to be held back. She's not a developmental delay because of this or

educational deficit because of this.

>> And I and I I'll kind of fill in the last piece that I'm hearing here, Britney, u because I'm not that far removed from my wife working full-time and we had three kids. So, as a nurse, and I know that nursing, many of the nursing positions are very, very intense. So, if you're asking this from a, hey, on those two days when I'm off, I need a little me time. I think that's that's fine.

But I would again I would employ the person who's watching the child on the other days for maybe a portion of it.

Uh if that's something that is part of this decision, I think that makes sense and it's healthy. Uh but I can also say

as a guy who sent off his oldest to college last year, I got another one leaving the nest. This goes fast. And the old saying that the you know the days are long and the years are short are really really true. And if you can,

you know, still be healthy, uh, having that time with her before she heads off to elementary school, man, it's going to be here before you know it. I would maximize that. That's just me. No wrong decision here, but maybe some food for thought. >> Yeah. So, the bottom line of all of that, Britney, is it doesn't matter. You do what you want to. That's right. >> Um, I mean, you're not going to you're not going to mess up your kid either way, and you're really not going to destroy your debt snowball either way.

Um, so but what we don't want to do during and I don't think this falls in that category or we would sell you because we're pretty mean about it. Um, it what we don't want to do when we're in baby step is buy luxury items.

>> Yeah. >> Things that aren't needed. And this is kind of on the bubble. But um, >> and you know what bothers me about it is the way you phrased it honestly.

>> Start the whole thing off like this is a private school discussion and it's a two-day a week Mother's Day drop off.

So, you know, it's not it's not like we're having a decision decision between Harvard and and you know, the University of Mississippi. That's not what we're looking at here. Okay. So, I felt that, too. And this is not in any way a slight on you, Britney, but it you know what? Sometimes we make decisions like this because everyone else is doing it.

>> I'm not saying that's the case, but it can it a lot of times we talk ourselves into things that make sense because other people are doing it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's

Yeah. And it's a bubble. I mean, what who you run around with? And all your kids, all your buddies got a four-year-old and they're old one to air quotes private school. >> I'll bet you the school she's thinking about has got some nice shine to it.

>> Air >> guaranteed >> some air quotes. >> It's the hot place to send the kiddos in their zip code. I'll bet you >> I could be wrong.

>> It's happened before. Dave >> struggling with prestige out of a four-year-old.

Listen up, guys, because I've got a big question for you. Where will you be with your money at the end of 2026? Will you

be better off, worse, or exactly the same? Believe it or not, you get to choose. Look, I know there's a lot going on that can make you feel powerless over your money, but I want you to hear me.

You're more in control than you think.

You can turn your finances around. So, let me help you out. Start your year off with me and Dave Ramsey at our free Every Dollar live stream event on January 8th. We're cutting through all the lies and all the chaos out there that's keeping you stuck. So you have the clarity you need to finally get ahead. And you could even win $2,000

just for signing up. Listen, another year is going to pass anyway. So decide that this is the year you're going to take back control of your life and your money. Go sign up for the free live stream at everydoll.com/livestream.

Hey, are you staying on track with the baby steps?

Take a quick quiz to check your progress and you can get a personalized plan for you as well. Simply head to the show notes, click the link, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quick free quiz and we'll help you build a personalized plan and get you moving. That's what we're here for.

Carly's in West Virginia. Hey Carly, what's up? >> Hi Dave. Hi Ken. Happy to be talking to you. Thanks for taking my question.

>> Sure. >> Uh my question is about life insurance.

So my husband and I know we need more

life insurance. Uh but we're trying to figure out how to do that. So right now through a company sponsored plan um we

have a term life policy that is seven times my income and five times his

>> that you pay for or they give >> well yes I pay 40 we pay $45 a month for

it. >> Okay. All right. >> And so I'm trying to determine to fill

that gap to the 10 to 12.

>> Yeah. And because this is, you know, through my employer, >> should I be looking should we be looking for a private policy? Yes.

>> For the full 10 to 12, >> I probably would. And let me talk you through why. Okay. There's a couple of variables. >> Yeah. Just go to like Xander insurance.com. They've been with us for 35 years almost, and they'll shop a bazillion companies, get you the best price for what you're paying. I'm going to guess and say you might be able to get that privately. I don't think you're getting that great a deal. That's thing one. Okay. Thing two is when you leave

your company, and you will.

>> Yep. >> Okay. You'll get fired. >> That's my concern. Like if I, you know, >> if you had a uh diabetes diagnosis

and a year later left the company, you can't get insurance.

>> Yeah. >> And cuz these insurance policies are not portable. They don't go with you. And so

you can get trapped with a negative diagnosis and then an exit and not have insurance. And that's always bothers me.

So I I look at um I want to have the

biscuit, the the meat of the thing, so to speak, the main piece be my private

insurance through Xander. And then if I've got some through work, that's if it's a good deal when you flesh it out and you want to keep it. It's kind of the gravy on the biscuit. It's a little extra.

>> Okay. >> But because good news, it doesn't cost much. But I don't I don't know that that

policy is that great a deal. How old are you guys? >> I am 32 and my husband's 27.

>> Okay.

And what do you what are your incomes?

>> Um I'm at 160 and he's about 80

>> and we have one child who's uh almost two. >> Okay. Are are either one of you overweight or smoke?

>> No. >> Okay. Uh well, you got a good amount of

insurance because your income's higher than I was guessing. Okay. So, uh you got good incomes. Congratulations.

Um, yeah, I don't know. You just run the numbers against it. You'll either keep it as as semi-supplemental. So, in other

words, I might do if it's a great deal and you want to keep it instead of doing 10 to 12 with Xander, I might do six to eight with Xander. Right.

>> Okay. >> And just say, okay, it's a little it's a little bit supplemental and it's a little bit there, but if I leave, I'm not stuck that way. And it's not the base. It's not the foundation of my insurance plan. It's just part of the plan because when you count on employer life insurance only, you can really get stung based on what I was just telling you. >> And Dave was using gravy and a biscuit as metaphor. If you want a good life insurance rate, stay away from the biscuits and the gravy.

>> Ken, thank you.

>> Dave, just I got to bring some practicality every once in a while to what you say. You're not plain enough.

You're not clear enough. >> It's true. Cuz you know, if you eat enough biscuits and gravy, you'll have to have a biscuit ectomy. >> While you were doing that, Biscuit ectomy. >> Oh, I love a good that'll screw up your insurance rates.

>> Biscuit ectoies.

>> If if that's on your medical record, it's a problem. >> There it is. >> Larry's in Florida. Hey, Larry.

>> Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Got a see if I'm the um the exception to Dave's rule of borrowing money. And and here's the deal. I'll give you a quick scenario. 73. I watch the 70. We're

snowbirds. Uh we have 1.4 in liquid

assets, 50,000 of it. Sorry, 1.4 that's

in pre-tax and then another 50 that's emergency fund. Everything's paid off up north. Um we live in Michigan. House is worth about 275 up there. That's paid off. So we the condo that we've been staying in in Florida for the last five or six years, a perfect one for us, has come up for sale. And uh I can actually

close on it this week, tomorrow, today, whatever. And um I'm looking at my

question to you is do do you think it's wise to pull out 300 the condos 360 pull

out that entire amount out of the pre-tax? And of course, that would incur a 20% >> Yes. >> tax as well. >> Absolutely. >> You think that's a smart way to >> It's not a 20% tax. It's tax on 360.

It's an in ordinary income tax rate on 360, >> but yeah, I definitely would pay taxes on it. It's not 20% is the withholding on it, but that that's not accurate.

>> So, yeah, I Yes, I definitely that's why you've saved this money. You don't want to go be 73 years old and have a beach condo with a stupid payment on it.

>> No. No, I wouldn't do that. I definitely wouldn't do that. I'd pay cash or I wouldn't buy it. Of course, the other question is, are you going to keep the place up north? If you are, then let's slow down a little bit on the purchase and get the other place sold and roll that 275 into it. Um, because there's no

tax on that. Uh, but if you're keeping the house up and you're still going to snowbird it, then that up north and that's cool. No problem. I just take it out of that. Yeah. So, you got a million dollars left in your 401k and you got,

you know, a million dollar in real estate now. Okay. Oh, darn. I hate it when that happens. Well done. No, I'm not paying Yes, I'm going to pay some taxes to not have any debt. Absolutely.

That's why why we got here and how we got here. Spencer's in Wisconsin. Hey, Spencer.

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Hey. Um, I'm 28 years old and I have uh

$750,000 of debt.

And I have no debt on any cars or

anything like that. That's my home mortgage. And then I'm a farmer. I bought a chunk of land. So,

Okay. So, how much is your house? How much is the debt on your home?

>> Um, there's about 350,000 left on that.

>> Okay. And so, you got about uh what? 450

on the land.

>> 400 on land. Yep.

>> 400 on land, I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. And you're a full-time farmer. That's what you do for a living, >> correct? Yep. With my dad and my grandpa. >> Okay.

And um that's your only debt. You don't have any equipment debt?

>> No, no equipment debt or anything.

>> What are you far What do you What do you What are you farming? >> Um corn, soybeans, and wheat. We're cash crop farmers, and then we do a lot of trucking, too. >> Good. So, what do you make in a year?

>> Um I personally make about $80,000 of

impersonal income.

>> And then, uh this year we made about

$30,000 from the farm. That should make the payments for the next year.

>> How many acres How many acres was the 400? It only yielded $30,000 worth of profit. >> Well, no, 30,000 of profit.

>> Yeah. 50,000.

>> It was about uh it's 76 acres of

workable land and it yielded about 200

bushels to the acre.

>> Wow. >> And corn is about $4. about pretty bad price this year, but that's just how it goes. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. On a good year, I'm curious. On a good year, uh, with corn prices, what would that number be or what has it been? What's the best year that you can recall?

>> Um, the best year is probably that I can remember, I'm only 28, so but we had a during CO there, we had about $7 a bushel.

>> Wow. >> For corn. >> Wow.

So, but what would that make you on that? 78 acres or 76 acres.

>> Um 76 * 200.

>> That'd be about a 100,000 or something.

>> Okay. All right. >> Almost double. >> Yeah. Okay. Or more than double. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Because you got Listen.

Yeah. You're just trying to get a return on investment. It's a business transaction. There's a lot of romance in farm and an extreme amount of hard work in farming. But people romantically forget to do the math because you don't want to make 30,000 on a $400,000 investment and do all the hard work means you're making a dollar an hour of very backbreaking labor. That's a bad rate of return on your money. So, um,

but if that's not the average year, then we have to work into that and see. So, and and if you're getting it paid off by doing that, you end up with the asset clear. That's another part to enter into the equation. So, I think you can struggle through this and get there.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramiesolutions.com/start.

Our

scripture of the day, Ephesians 6:11.

Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes.

Rebea McIntyre said, "Be different.

Stand out and work your butt off." Well, Sounds good, Reeba. I like that. All right, Cam is in Chicago. Hey, Cam. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

>> Well, my son is going to come into a settlement um when he turns 18 in April,

and it's $70,000, and I'm looking for advice on what he should do with it. He wants to buy a new car, but he's also going to be signing up. He's going to sign up for the Marines in uh about October.

>> So, he's only going to be here a short time before he goes away to boot camp. So, trying to figure out what the right decision is for him. >> Yeah. Okay. And how old is he?

>> He's 17. He'll be 18 in April and that's when he'll get the settlement. >> Okay. What's the settlement from?

>> Um he was um hit by a car when he was on his bicycle. >> Wow. Is he okay?

>> He's okay. Yeah. It's been just about a year. So, he's he's fully recovered and

it's um you know, been in an account in the bank um until he turns 18. So, he's anxiously awaiting it to buy himself a car cuz right now he's sharing with with mom. >> Okay. So, you're a single mom?

>> I'm a single mom. Yes. >> Okay. All right. Um and he doesn't have

a car and he's 17. It's in the bank,

>> right? >> Is there any reason he can't buy a car with it now if you let him?

because it he can't it's not to be touched until he's 18. I mean, we can go and petition the judge for it.

>> Oh, okay. But that'd be the only way.

Okay. All right. >> But it's the only way, right?

>> Okay. All right. You're a good mom. Um

Well, here's the thing. you and I know he's getting ready to park the car. And if I'm if he's a normal 17-year-old uh

American male, he wants a really nice car uh that's way too expensive and he's about to screw up, right?

>> He wants a Honda Civic.

>> Okay. But how new

>> that he's he's open-ended on. But

>> I'm thinking I'm thinking5 to $10,000.

>> Okay. That's what I was thinking as well. >> Okay. And if it parks and sits there and rots down, his life does not end. But if

he goes and blows 70 grand on a car, I'm gonna kill him.

>> Oh, no. That would never happen.

>> Well, I don't know. He's 18 and it's his money. And you know, only you and I can talk him out of it. Right. So, >> because I guarantee he's got some people telling him to do that, don't you?

>> I'm afraid of that. >> Yeah. They're called stupid friends. We all have them. >> Right. Right.

>> Especially when you're 17. You have them. There's lots of them around when you're 17. Right.

>> Yeah. So, I'm glad that you have the influence with him that you hope you do and you think you do, and I hope you can >> talk him out of the tree on this because I Yeah, it sounds like you are. It sounds like you got a good foothold on on persuading him.

>> That's what I'm hoping. And with that rest of that money, do you think he should, you know, put it in a high yield savings or >> That would be fine. That would be fine.

If you want to put it away even longer, you could sit down with a Smart Investor Pro and park some of it in some mutual funds, but don't plan on touching it for 5 years if you do that. You can, but I wouldn't. But if you could, that would be ideal. Just forget you have it.

>> It would be ideal, right?

>> Put it in a mutual fund and forget you have it and look up at 24 marrying your

sweetheart and the 50 has turned into

150 and you can use it for a down payment on a house.

That's what that's what my hopes are for him. >> That that's what I would do with it if it was mine. >> Yeah. You know, I'm sitting here thinking, what would I do if I were you?

>> I would show him that example.

>> I would I'm just This is what I do to my kids. It drives them crazy, but I'm a question guy by trade. I would ask him,

uh, so what was involved with a brand new Marine who goes off and got a car?

Start asking a million questions. Now, just asking the questions will irritate him, which is great because what you want to do is is a mild irritation to make him think through, is this thing more trouble? Because you and Dave are talking and you're like, "Oh, he's going to park it." But he's not thinking that.

I would, and I'm playing when I say irritate. I don't mean really provoke the kid. I just mean make him consider what is he going to do with this car?

And if he's parking it where where you live, make him confront that. uh if he's got to take it with him and ship it or whatever. I would just walk make him walk through all of that and you might be able to deter this by not suggesting

but by asking. I would try it >> cuz I'm with you. I would rather >> it's okay to not buy a car. That's what I'm getting if you're going straight into boot camp. That'd be okay.

>> Yeah, >> it wouldn't be the end of the world. But I was just trying to scratch his itch.

>> And if I scratch it with five grand and keep him from blowing 70, I'm on target, you know. So >> yeah. What did you say? You tried it.

>> I tried to tell him it's not necessary.

we can still share. He's got a 15-year-old brother and his point and that'll be 16 when he goes in the Marines. And he said, "Well, then he can just use it when I'm gone cuz he thinks

that it's a burden for me to have to drive them all around everywhere since it's just me." And he's like, "Then he can help you out." >> Well, here's the deal. I did a quick search while Dave was talking to you. There are some decent uh Honda Civics in

that $5 to $7,000 range. So, if you can

help him stay in that range, then I think that scratches his itch, but also keeps his money where it needs to be.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then talk but sell the dream of what happens to the other >> Yeah. >> 60,000 bucks that's going to turn into 160 for a good down payment when he's 24

or whatever the numbers end up being.

But I mean, this is this is the mature thing to do with it, which is very hard to do when you're >> immature. when you're not when you're not old, you know. So, it's hard to do

when you're old, but it's not as hard when you're old as it was when you were Christian. Kristen Kristen is next in

San Jose. Hey, Kristen. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, I have a question about purchasing a house versus remodeling.

Um, we've been planning a remodel for the past year. um and just found out from kind of a couple of contractors that now at this point the remodel is going to be double what we want to pay which means we'd be way over building for our neighborhood. The same time I'm finding this out from contractors. My dad has decided to move from Southern California up to be closer to us because my mom has passed in this past year. Um, and he just want we're kind of his last closest family um, in the area. And so

we are now considering instead to sell his house, our house, and purchase a new house with an ADU. So that way he can kind of live on the property with us.

Um, this would involve all me, my husband, and my dad's name means all being on um the mortgage and the title

to the home. And I'm just looking for some advice to see if that is a good idea. Um, we would be putting like over 50% down for the price of the home and it would be within our like budget even

according to the Ramsay way of deciding for a budget for a house. Um, and so I just want to know if that is a good idea or not. >> Well, there's a lot of downside to it.

Um because you what you have to do is work through what happens in the event of all the negative possibilities.

Okay. Um a negative relationship evolves. Um that's the problem. Okay. Uh

a death evolves. What happens to the half out of the house then? Um what happens to the half uh if he becomes

disabled early onset? What happens uh if

uh you know something bizarre happened and you all got a divorce? Okay, so you

know all the no one ever no one ever anticipates all the negative things and the exit strategy from this brilliant idea in the event of all the negative things. We always just look at oh this is going to work and we can put our money together and we got a better house and yeah. So, if you work through all of those probably on paper as a part of a

quote partnership agreement unquote, you got siblings.

>> No, I'm an only child. >> Okay. That's that makes it simpler, doesn't it? You're going to get his half when he dies, right?

>> Yes. And he has been very clear that he he's like, "The house is already yours.

Do what you want with it." Um, he just wants to move closer to us in general.

And he is elderly. So I do think that how old is he we would be taking um in his like mid70s.

>> Okay. >> Maybe not in the best of health like you are but yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. I mean just be

careful. It's just be thinking about what happens with um you know and and

really have some good documentation on power of attorney and other stuff in case of like you know the one that comes to mind is I've got a friend dealing with early onset right now and they've got a problem with the ownership of the family business and the guy that holds the keys is not all there now. So they got a real issue and that's the kind of stuff you got to be real careful with and and be thinking that through. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 245. Yesterday’s Choices Don’t Define You - Change Starts Today! | September 23, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvpZplaBYd4) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:06:58 |

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normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Studio Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today as we take your questions at 888255225.

Sarah is in Alabama. Hi Sarah, how are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so my fiance and I have been together for 13 years off and on. We have two daughters, five and 10. And a

year ago or two years ago, we uprooted and moved to his hometown in the middle of nowhere, Alabama.

Um, we bought a home. We have since had

a house fire a year later and right now

we're renting. Um, we decided that we

were going to get married at the beginning of next year in March. And we

decided that at the beginning of this year, >> right? Slow down, pump the brakes.

>> But uh well, he he got rebapti he got

baptized for the first time. He has always been a a complete non-believer.

Oh >> was against it. >> And after the fire, he got baptized. I got saved again. Uh my daughter's been saved again. And it was definitely something that as a family we were moving towards in the holy trying to live life right in God's eyes.

>> And so the fire was kind of the catalyst for all of you. Is that what you're saying? >> Oh, absolutely. And we're all still on

that page. We're devout in Bible study and church and all that good stuff, but we just realized that we're not going to be able to afford the wedding. And there

have been other things, infidelities, stuff like that that has happened throughout our past, trauma that's just kind of carried over.

>> And in counseling,

>> we have not uh we've talked about it plenty of times. And honestly, where we're at right now, there's not very many resources >> involved in our church. There are not very mental health re not very many mental health resources. I come from >> they're in the middle of nowhere, Alabama. >> Okay. So, okay. Well, there are I mean there are really great online >> Yeah. like Better Help. Like Better Help. Those guys. >> Uh so, um Okay, let's play pretend for a second.

Um >> are are you you've been doing this a long time?

>> Yes. >> You have two kids that if we keep this up much more, they're going to be in college, >> right? >> I mean, this is just going on a long time. um your uh spiritual awakening is wonderful that you met God and I want to I want to start living by the book. And um so the ship has sailed on

little 18-year-old Sarah walking down the aisle in an expensive wedding in a white dress.

That was like a decade ago.

It's gone.

So go get married like today,

tomorrow.

>> What if everything isn't where it should be? >> You've been going this long. >> You've been going this long. You know where everything what what what is not in the right place?

My god. I mean, if it should if it's not where it should be, you should have been gone like 5 years ago. >> Yeah. And Sarah, with the life changes that you guys are making, I'd like to think that the worst is behind you guys and that you're going to start going in another direction.

And to Dave's point, yeah, today or next week when you get married and you go down to the courthouse and you just fill out the papers and legalize it for all of your benefit, there could be a day in the future where you renew your vows and you do the white dress and you walk down the aisle and you do that big party that you wanted. But just because that's not going to be today or next week when you get married, doesn't mean it can't happen ever. I I just want to break this idea that you need to save up for a big wedding.

It's like that was a decade ago. >> Just go get married.

>> Then why do you need money for a wedding? >> Then you don't need money for a wedding.

>> I mean, >> just go down the call your preacher and say, "Can you marry us?" And he'll say, "Yes, we met God. We met God and we know that now we need to be married in order to sleep together and so we're going to get married. Will you marry us?

We want to be right. We want to do this right. And uh preacher is going to say yes. And then you go get your license and you go get married.

>> And if it makes you feel any better, this is a small technicality, but it it could make you feel better. Um you know, you go everybody gets married and gets the license before they walk down the aisle in the dress. Everybody. Cuz you have to have that first and you that the legal part's done first anyway.

But everybody gets the certificate first. >> Yeah. have a celebration. But I mean, you guys have been doing this for 13 freaking years. I mean, this is not it's not like um yeah, it's it's that's in

the rearview mirror. But it it the the only question I've got is you do want to make sure that you're saying, "Okay, now that we're in this headsp space of we're walking with God now and both of us are there and we've been through the trauma of a house fire, which is very traumatic, >> uh, now that we've done all that, I'm looking in the eyes of my two kids that the two of you made together >> and you're going, "Okay, is there anything that's so broken here that we can't work through it?" because to me it's almost as if you've been married 13 years and you're calling me asking me if you need to get a divorce >> and I didn't hear anything in this discussion that called for that.

>> That's a good way to look at it, Dave. >> And so um you know the only question is now we're formalizing this because we have a better spiritual understanding of how life works and we're going to plug into that and you're just going to formalize it and and here's what's then what you're saying is for better for worse baby. >> Yep. Yeah, >> it does hit different though when you put that when you put the ring on it because then there's no there's no escape valve.

You know what I mean? But they do need to do premarital counseling even though they've been together 13 years >> or just go do marital counseling marital you get married. Go, you know, okay, we got to we kind of ought to dig through this toy box a little bit and see what's going on here.

sure we've got that kind of stuff cleared out because I mean it's like we were with some friends this weekend been married 50 years. We've been married 43 years. Wow. >> That's how old we are. We had to shoot dinosaurs out of the yard to get married. And so, um, you know what? They

were laughing. I said, Sharon, they said, "What's the secret?" And Sharon said, "David says if I leave, he's going

with me." >> Oh, >> there you go. >> And that's the secret right there. >> You're not getting away. >> That's about how it sounded, too. She dropped into that southern hillbilly mountain twang and went all down in it.

I'm just saying. But yeah. >> Wow. >> That's great. That's the truth. I told her it's an old Zig Ziggler line. I've been telling her for years. I said, "If you leave, I'm going with you." So, just, you know, go ahead and pack both suitcases cuz I'll be following you right along. >> Wow. >> Cuz otherwise, I'll go hungry.

>> It's not good, you know. So, >> Oh, that's great. >> Hey, kiddo. I'm proud for where you guys are and I'm proud for where you're going. The best is in front of you. The worst is behind you.

>> Uh, you start walking with Jesus and both of you do that. You'll learn things that you never learned before. You'll see things you've never seen before.

>> And and um it won't be without its problems. It won't be without bumps in the road, but you will get there. And um you're setting those kids up for a much better life. You're setting yourselves up for a much better life. And I'm proud for where you're going. >> Three most important decisions I ever made. Number one, following Jesus.

Number two, who I married, Sam Warshaw.

Number three, choosing to get on a plan for money and get out of debt and build wealth. Three most important.

>> There we go. Boom. Big list. Big list.

Heat. Heat. N. [Music]

[Music]

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>> Michael is in Canada. Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> I'm fantastic. I always told myself if I ever got through, I'd have to hear you say it. So, how you doing, Dave? >> Better than I deserve.

>> That's fantastic. Uh Jade, I actually asked you this question on IG live a couple uh months ago, and you wanted more details. You wanted the numbers for it. So, uh my wife and I are both 38. Uh today's actually my birthday. We are on baby steps 45, five, and six, and we own

uh two properties. Our primary house uh which is valued about 650 and we owe 265 on it. And then we have a cabin recreational property that we bought for 325. It's worth about 425 and we owe

about 214 on it. Now in Canada, we have

these weird mortgages where uh they advertise over 15, 20 or 25 years, but the interest rate comes up for renewal every 5 years.

>> So the cabin is coming up in the spring

uh where we're going to renew that which gives me the opportunity if I wanted to to take equity out of the cabin and then I could transfer uh that equity into our primary residence. this would just help us pay off our house sooner. Uh maybe provide us with that financial piece a little bit earlier of owning our own home. Uh and I was curious what your opinions were on that. >> Do the interest rates compare?

>> Uh yeah. So actually the house is a little bit more. The house is at 4.5.

Right now it's looking like the cabin would renew around 3.9. So about a half% difference. >> So they treat your cabin as a personal residence in terms of interest rate.

>> Correct. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz in the states, your your your second homes and rental properties have a higher interest rate.

>> Yeah. Here, we can still take advantage of the same mortgage rates. >> Okay. >> Uh again, we just get stuck with this thing every 5 years, so it can vary more. >> So, your idea is to take out a heliloc on the cabin. >> No, it's just extra do a cash out refinance.

>> Yeah. So, we can do Okay. Not a heloc.

They're going to redo the mortgage.

reset the mortgage and take another 200 out I guess or so, right?

>> Yeah. Be about 100 probably I could get out of the cabin. Uh we'd have to leave 25% in there.

>> What's your household income?

>> About 240.

>> Okay. So if you owe 165 on your house because you move 100 over to the cabin, how fast do you pay that off?

>> Well, so right now I'm forecasted about five years out. So I'm thinking this would probably speed up to about three.

Um, that's really where our focus is is paying off our house and then we'd move to the cabin after that. So, um, they would move up that goal of paying off the house, but overall paying off the house and the cabin. I'm still looking in probably the same time frame of maybe closer to eight years. >> Yeah, that sounds right. >> Um, >> may maybe maybe sooner, but yeah, depending on how how tight you pull that budget down, but yeah. Okay. All right.

Um >> well, it's just a risk analysis thing of

um you know, if you could pay off one or the other completely, we would talk about that. This one is still no change because if you get sideways and you got no money, you're going to lose both of them, >> right? >> Either way, cuz you can't pay the bill. >> It doesn't make enough of a dent. So the the you know and until so until you get your home paid off in the next 2 to 3 years, your risk does your risk situation does not really change. Um but

I like your idea. There's nothing wrong with it. Um nothing hugely wrong with it. I I think I would move that way. Uh and again, I I would not do it in the States because you'd be jacking your rate up, >> right? >> And I wouldn't do it with a heliloc in the states either because HELOCs have horrible terms. But um but you know, but

because you're looking at a traditional first mortgage, primary residence, the same type of mortgage on both things and

you know, you're going to go through one more cycle before you, you know, one more fiveyear cycle before you get them paid off and um you're going to be done.

Yeah, that's good. >> Do you rent the cabin when you're not in it or does it just sit vacant?

>> No. Oh, so it's actually in a national park where we're not allowed to, but my my wife is a teacher, so we're out there basically all summer with the kids. And >> does carrying these cut into your Does it cut into your investing at all? Your 15%.

>> No. So, we actually passed the Baby Steps Millionaire uh threshold, I guess, in Canadian dollars. It's not quite the same. >> That's great. Close enough. >> Just a just a couple months ago. So, >> good for you. >> Yeah, I like it, Michael. I think you're thinking it through. Uh, it's not a uh

it's not it's not dumb. It's not in the

stupid column or anything like that. I don't think it's a lifesaver either, by the way. >> It's not like, whoa, that changes everything. No, it doesn't.

It's just kind of yawn a little bit. And yeah, it's okay. Move it over there. But then let's lean in and get that stinking house paid off.

I want that first mortgage on your personal residence gone because you're going that's going to change your life. Mhm.

cranking on it with a $260,000 income, I'm a lot less worried about you at that point. So, yeah, I think you're I I would do it, but not because it's like life-changing. It's just okay to do.

Nothing. >> It helps a little. I see your point. I see why you're doing it. While you're at it, you got to recast the mortgage anyway. Then why not? Yeah. Reset it.

Let's do it. Toby's in Ohio. Hi, Toby.

How are you?

>> Hey, I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so I had a question. I'm 27. Trying to navigate life a little bit here about bankruptcy. I've got about $14,000 in

debt. And uh part of that is a car loan.

That's about 6,500. And that car is

broke down now. And I'm also homeless.

So, I'm just trying to figure out if that's a smart move or not, or if it's something that I should live a cash life for the next seven years or not.

>> How'd you find yourself homeless?

>> Well, I originally tried to get into a place and uh they ended up switching over management. I never got my application. and I ended up dropping a uh deposit in uh first month, but they

uh the new management returned that back to me because they ended up moving somebody in that kind of sued the effect of couch surfing and then making it harder to get in somewhere uh prolonging

that. >> So, >> how long has this been going on?

>> Uh about 8 months.

>> Okay. So, when are you getting a place?

>> I don't know yet. Are you working? >> I'm trying to figure that out. Uh, as of two weeks ago, I wasn't or I'm not. Um, but I am applying currently and kind of waiting for pending. >> Explain what's going on with the work. Why aren't you able to keep a job?

Um, well, a lot of times it was uh

unwillingness at first and then here in the last year it was just I think I I

don't know if it was an excuse or not, but mentally I just wasn't really enjoying being in my truck or couch surfing and everything I was doing was going towards expenses like uh you know

I screwed up had a DUI last year so I had some fees I had to be paying. So

>> Toby, you got a lot going on, man.

>> I do have a lot going on. >> So my friend years ago that taught me some of this stuff used to say that financial problems when including when I went bankrupt, sir, financial problems are not the problem. They're the symptom of other things that are going on.

>> Symptom. >> Yeah. And so your your um your money

issues are the symptom of all the other

crap that's going on in your life. not keeping a job, um DUIs, all this other

stuff are are are the causing the money problems. If you kept a job steady, you got you a little apartment to live in steady, you kept it clean, you kept yourself clean, you stayed out of the alcohol, you stayed out of the drugs, you kept working, working, working, working, working, all of a sudden these financial problems are going to go away.

Is you agree with that?

>> I do. I I do. It's just why do I find it so difficult then >> then it's because it's the same thing I had to face and all of us have to face the problem with your money is the guy in your mirror and he's difficult by the

way when I look in the mirror I get the same thing he's difficult if I can get that guy to behave he'd be skinny and rich but he likes donuts you know what I'm saying so you know I mean controlling the guy in our mirror is every one of us it's the thing we struggle with the most okay um and so

are you plugged in at all to a good church in the area.

>> I am good. >> I I I definitely am >> good. I you know, if I were you, I would call up the pastor and say, "Hey, would you put two or three guys in my life to walk beside me and help me become the kind of man I want to be instead of the kind of man I have been?" >> Yeah. You know, and I I've just recently been finding that uh this kind of mentorship with some people.

Yeah. And that that mentorship kind of guided me with the uh self-reflection. And that's why I was like, who else should I call and find out? Good.

>> No. No, Toby. You're not bankrupt.

>> You're broke. You're broke and homeless and don't have a job. You're not bankrupt. >> Broke, homeless, and don't have a job.

>> You get a job, you're not homeless, and you're making some money. You can straighten up this car debt someday, maybe. But I'm not worried about that car debt. They ain't got anything to chase down. If they come find you, they can't get nothing. So, you're what we call judgment proof. But I want you to go have a life. So then you can go deal with it. Uh but bankruptcy does not solve one stinking problem you have. Not one.

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>> So, uh, George and Rachel and Jade are going to be doing that on the 25th.

That's about a week away. And they're going to be unpacking a lot of these advanced features. You're going to be your mind's going to be blown. It's pretty stinking incredible.

I've been doing this a long time and we've come out with some really good things over the last three decades that have helped a lot of people. This probably is the best thing we've ever done. >> It's pretty amazing. The >> Thursday, >> it's uh it's this beautiful mixture of proper use of technology and human beings.

Yeah, it's going to change everything. All right, Daniel's in Kentucky. Hi, Daniel.

>> Good. How you doing, sir? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, um I'm 56 year old. My wife is 55.

We have a son that's 16. And uh my wife's been retired about two years. I retired about two months ago. And um we

um we bring in enough for all our expenses on a pension. You know, we're our pension does that. And I've got um 30,000 in a 401k at my company previously and uh 70,000 in a emergency

fund. And uh about 400,000 just sitting

in the bank. uh like a dummy. I just didn't invest anything. Is it Everything goes well. We're fine right now, but inflation and and any kind of buying a vehicle, we're going to have to go into that nest nest egg.

>> Curious. You're 56. You're probably going to live to 96. You plan on sitting on your butt for 40 years.

>> Well, no. I'm I'm going to do I wanted to do something I wanted to do because I'm away from home about two weeks two days a week with the job I had. So, >> yeah. Okay. So, what do you want to do?

>> Uh, I don't know yet.

>> Okay. That'd be a good thing to figure out yesterday.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Let's get with it. I'm 65. I can't believe you're sitting on your butt at 56. Yeah. You need to go do something, man. Make some money. And that solves a lot of these problems. The second thing solves a lot of these problems is investing the 400k. >> Please.

>> Okay. So in in 2023, if you had it in a

an index mutual fund called an S&P that

reflected exactly what the stock market did in 2024, you would have made 23% and

26% those two years. Now, that's not normal, but just to point out, okay,

here here's what that means. That's $50,000 a year.

>> Mhm. You've lost $100,000

by having that $400 sitting on its butt

>> in a bank account instead of invested.

Well, >> a hundred grand.

>> Yep. >> Why didn't you do it, Daniel? It were you riskaverse or were you just had just never got around to it?

>> Uh fearful. I've been conservative all my life and uh too conservative.

>> Okay, that's good. I can I can work with that one. All right, so here's the answer. There's two kinds of fear and we've all got them. There's fear of

something that will hurt you and that's a real fear and you should stay away from something that will hurt you. The other thing that we're afraid of is things we don't understand and don't know about. Okay? You're standing in the middle of the interstate, 18-wheelers coming at you. You should be afraid and you should move. You're going to die.

>> Okay? >> Right? >> You're going to touch a hot stove. You should be afraid. You're going to get a third degree burn. Okay? Don't do that.

That's a real fear. If your if your seven-year-old uh son or when he was seven, he's 16, but if he was se is learning to ride a bicycle and he's afraid, well, he might fall over and scratch his knee. He ain't going to die and he's going to get the joy of learning to ride a bicycle. So, he's afraid of something he hasn't learned to do yet.

>> Right. >> When I drove a car the very first time, I distinctly remember I was 10 years old. My dad tossed me the keys and gave me no instruction, which was a really dumb idea.

And I I all I can remember is it was a gravel driveway. And when I pushed down on the accelerator all the way to the floor, I just about emptied the driveway with the back tires throwing gravel everywhere until the screaming stopped from all the neighbors, my mother and my dad. And I let off the accelerator finally. But now I've learned to drive a car and I'm not afraid of cars anymore.

But I was afraid that day of cars, okay?

With good reason cuz I didn't know what the heck I was doing. Right? So that's where you are with investing. Investing is not the 18-wheeler or the hot stove.

it. You don't understand it, >> right? >> And it's not The good news is it's not rocket surgery. You can do it. Everybody can understand this. It's not that hard.

So, uh, Jade and I are going to send you to the, uh, uh, Smart Vest

Prosyssolutions.com,

click on the website, get one of those.

And Jade, it's I mean, you came at this the very first time. I had a finance degree, so I had a I had a jump start.

But you and Sam sit down with a Smart Investor Pro the very first time. You didn't know beans. >> No. How's that?

It's pretty intimidating. >> It's intimidating. And I I will say I think it's helpful if you can engage with a show like this or do a little bit of research on your own so at least you can because there's lingo and jargon and you want to feel like you understand that. But if you sit down with the right person, they can help you understand it a little bit more.

>> It's really I mean because here's the thing. You buy a house. Well, that's an investment. There's no guarantee.

You could lose the house. You could lose the the neighborhood could go up in a sinkhole. You'd lose everything. I mean, there's, you know, there's a but the neighborhood could go bad. Sure. You know, and instead you go, okay, I'm buying a house in an area that has a long track record, >> right? >> The trees are big enough I can predict the future based on the past.

>> That's right. >> And that's what you do with an investment. You pick out something that's got a long track record. And then you got to understand how to do it.

Like you had to understand how to buy that first house. >> That's right. And there's 19 moving parts, but they're really not that complicated. Once you do it once, you go n it's doable.

So, uh, you know, I I think if you move that 400, Daniel, into some good investments and then get back to work and cuz you're going to have a better life, man. It's just more enjoyable.

>> You got to use your skills in your mind.

>> Yeah. Go do something big, man. Go do something big. Go make twice as much money you've ever made in your life. start you a business and you go, "Wow, I'm so glad I quit that ugly job." >> Act two. >> It's Yeah. Yeah. Here we go.

>> Dave, you know, this is my favorite question. If you didn't do finance and

real estate, what would you do? Act. If you had to make yourself have an act two, >> finance and real estate. Well, that's the only things I do. >> I know, but I'm saying if you didn't do that, if tomorrow you had to pick something else, what would you pick?

>> I don't have any idea. I But before I decided I mean before I decided to not do this, I would have an idea. But I'll

go straight to the next thing. Yeah.

>> No. I mean, I'm a teacher at heart, but I'm not going to the classroom. No.

>> So, um, but I'm going to teach something. I'm going to lead I'm going to I'm a I love business. I love running a business. Okay. And so, I would open something. >> Open something helping people some way.

And it would probably involve teaching in some way or another. But teaching is part of leadership, too. So, >> yeah, that's true. >> Yeah. But, um, yeah.

>> I thought you might have something off the wall. A pilot. I never never wanted to be a pirate or a secret agent. No, never did. So, a pirate.

>> So, just don't have any I don't have any busted busted Dave dreams. None at all.

It's all good. So, none at all. No busted Dave dreams. Oh, yeah. That's it.

Anyway, yeah, that that's what I would do. I'd sit down with a good Smart Vtor pro and uh get it going that way. And um

you know, I think that'll show you begin to teach you. They've got the heart of a teacher. And having the heart of a teacher is the big thing.

>> And I do want to say this cuz you asked the question. When you first hear um and learn about investing, the first time it doesn't sink in. The first time you hear it, it's just like it's like when you turn the It's like when you wake up in the middle of the night and you turn the lights on to go to the bathroom and then when you turn the lights off, you're like you can't see anything. That's like what it is when you hear about investing for the first time.

>> You you're like, "What was that? I don't remember. Where was it?" And then when you hear it the second time, it sinks in a little bit more. Then the third time it sinks in.

And before you know it, you've heard it several times. Now you're like, "Oh, I get it now. I understand." So it's okay if the first time you hear it, >> you don't fully understand it. That's normal.

>> Okay, I'll go with that.

The point is learn about it because it's not going to kill you. Yeah. >> You need to learn about it and get comfortable with it and that'll get you there. >> Wow.

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Not in all states. >> All right. Today's question comes from Dean in Iowa. He says, "If I have debt but also want to invest, why can't I do both and benefit from the compounding interest? I'm 21 and have over 95,000 in

college debt. I won't be able to pay that before I turn 30, and I don't want to wait that long to build wealth." Okay, so Dave, we hear this a lot. Um, it's kind of like that age-old argument of why can't I invest whilst paying off

debt or why do I need to wait till I'm done paying off debt to invest? And the biggest thing I mean, if I go back to the basis of it, it is your income being

your biggest wealth building tool. So, here's the thing. You have $95,000 in debt, which means a portion of your income is going to be going to paying that off. And the longer you wait, the more of that income is not helping you build wealth.

So, while you might be able to put I mean, theoretically, yeah, you could put some money into investing, it's not going to be the full scale of what you could or should put in to build ultim ultimate wealth. So, why wouldn't you just clear that out? Because here's the thing, the compounding interest >> works on your debt, too. >> Yeah, that's the thing.

that's going to accumulate that's going to accumulate more and at a quicker rate

than when you start from zero investing

you know your $100 here and there.

>> Yeah. So Dean, you're 21.

You can do whatever you want to do, honey. You're like an adult and stuff, but you wrote us an ask. Um you're full of opinions and they're all wrong.

>> And you wrote us an ask. So, here's the truth. The probability of you getting out of debt, if you don't focus on it exclusively and with great intensity and get your little butt in gear, the probability of you ever paying off that student loan is close to zero.

If you think you're going to wander out of this over 10 years like you've kept the flu for 10 years, you're not going to do it.

You're simply not going to do it. We've worked with people getting out of debt for way longer than you've been alive.

And so, you know, tens of millions of

people have followed our stuff and gotten out of debt. And one of the keys is for you to get fired up and wired up

where you turn it on. Don't talk to me about being 30 years old and still having this debt. >> How about 24 years old and it's gone.

Three years from now, $30,000 a year cuz all you do is work, young man. You have lots of energy. Go use it. Go get you some money.

You have made a mess and you need to clean up your mess. And the faster you put this in your rearview mirror with the faster the intensity, the higher the probability that you ever build wealth and the higher the probability you ever get out of the student loan debt.

They either do nothing and it stacks like cordwood in a backyard or they get after it and they knock it out fast.

There's hardly anybody in the actual data that does the middle ground and goes, I'm going to very slowly and methodic. Nobody does it.

>> They don't do it. So, you get fired up

and wired up. So, your set of assumptions are wrong. It's not going to take you nine years. You gonna pay off nine $900 I mean $9,000 a year. Come on.

How wussed is that? Come on. Don't be a wuss. Do it, man. Come on. $9,000. Come

on. That's nothing. You need to pay off 30 $35,000 a year cuz all you do is

work.

Clean up your mess. And then you're sitting there at 24 years old without this thing hovering over you >> like most broke Americans walking around with their own spare bedroom for freaking Sally May. They've kept her around so long. She's like a member of the family.

the old ugly aunt with a wart on her nose. >> Mhm. >> And she's stuck in the back bedroom and we're paying payments for her all the time. We can't get rid of her cuz you won't give her an eviction notice.

Dude, roll up your sleeves and punch it in the mouth. Tell Sally she gone.

You're done. You don't get to live here.

I don't like you. You're ugly and you're inhibiting my future. You are going away. You have to get mad about it and

knock it out fast. It increases the probability of doing it. It destroys your little formula because now you're out of debt at 24 or 25 and now you can build wealth really, really fast because you're used to living on very little and paying off a bunch of debt. We can transfer that to living on very little and investing. You probably be a millionaire by the time you're 35 if you do what I tell you to do, what Jade told you to do.

>> But if you don't, you're going to be normal. And if you want to look up the statistics on normal in America, normal sucks really bad. You do not want to be

normal. It's a disaster. So, your goal

is to be weird. That's our thing around here. >> I know. That's right. Yeah.

>> That's how you do it, man. That's the answer. And so, but yeah, if you make a set of assumptions, you're going to be there. And by the way, compounding interest works on debt. Exact same math.

Works against you and as it does working

for you with investment, >> right? >> The only difference is the rate. The only difference is the rate. If you're saving money at the same rate that you're paying off debt at the not paying off debt at the same rate, you have broken even. Exactly.

If you're do it at a lesser rate, you still broke even because you're carrying around all this risk and the increased risk that debt represents. So the answer

folks, the way you know Jay, when I was growing up, bunch of us little bit hillbilly kids, we were running in and out of the house and back door being opening, closing, opening, closing all day. You know, your mother says stuff like, "Were you raised in a barn?" That kind of stuff. And finally, the heat of the summer, she would have it. She'd be done with these kids running in and out, the neighbor, kids, me, everybody else.

And and she would just go, "That's it.

The worm has turned." >> Now, we had no idea what that meant except that the beatings were getting ready to begin, right? That's all we knew. >> And so, but the turn found out later it's actually from Shakespeare. Who knew mom knew Shakespeare? But yeah, there you go. So, but all all I knew was she was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Yeah, >> she had it up to here with these kids

and putting all the air conditioning in the running up the she'd had it.

>> And when you kind of got to get that thing going like, "Mama, the worm has turned. I've had it. I'm not living like this anymore. I make too much money to

be this freaking broke. I live in the most prosperous time in the most prosperous country in the history of mankind. And I'm broke. This is stupid.

I'm going to change." When you get that thing going like that, little little preaching going on, then then you can you can turn it. You can turn it around.

>> But Dean, it's not it's not a compound interest problem, honey. It's a Dean problem. Just like when I went broke, it was a Dave problem. >> Listen, I think it's about him wanting to take the easy way out.

That's all I think. I think you look at 95,000, you go, "That seems like a lot of work. It seems a lot easier to go over here and put my little $100 over here. I'm taking the easy route." And I think it literally just boils down to that.

You can either do the work and get the full the fullness of what you're supposed to have or you can punk out and take the easy route. >> You know, I was I said that on this on the show last week. I was being interviewed in a leadership situation the other day and a guy said, "You've got all these Gen Z's working for you." And I said, "Yeah, I love that generation. They're incredible." >> Uh they're an incredible generation because they've grown up with a magic wand in their hand and if you push a button, stuff happens.

Things show up on your front porch, >> man. That's right.

They're possibility generation and it's fast. >> They think anything can happen, but it all happens fast. That's the downside.

And and he said, "Well, what about them being entitled?" I said, "They're not entitled. They're just impatient." >> Yeah, that's that's good. >> Because they're used to everything coming fast. It comes easy, comes fast.

You just push a button and crap happens.

You can't even have an argument cuz somebody's got the answer before the argument's done. It's like, good gosh.

And so, um, you know, it's, you know, but but it's, you know, but here's the thing, guys. There's no such thing as

good microwave barbecue. That's an

oxymoron. There's only one way to get barbecue. You cook it long.

>> The dog, the neighbor's dog is howling.

>> That's how good barbecue is made. Okay?

And it's like a long cook. Long slow

cook. And guess what? Money's the same way, baby. And so you can't push a button. There is no easy button. And uh while all things are possible to Gen Z, you better you better buckle up, buttercup, because you're gonna have to learn some maturity. And one definition of maturity is learning to delay pleasure to get something better.

>> That's an emotional maturity. That's psychological maturity, spiritual maturity right there. You you delay pleasure to get something better. >> Perseverance.

>> And you'll get a callous while you're doing that because you'll be working all the time. >> And calluses are good for you and patience is good for you. It's called growing up. >> Yeah.

And uh but I tell you man, this a great generation.

>> Yeah. >> But quit looking for the stinking easy button. You're right, Jake. You're absolutely right.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Alyssa is with us in Chicago. Hi Alyssa.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My question is, how much is too much to spend on a wedding?

>> Okay, so >> that's cool. How How much are you thinking about spending?

>> 60,000.

>> Nice wedding. Good. Okay.

>> And >> do you have 60,000?

>> Uh, so we're actively saving to get to

We have about half right now. So by next September when the wedding would be, we would have that. So mom and dad aren't chipping in. That's you and him paying for it.

>> We are going with the intention that we're paying for it. They've briefly mentioned that they might contribute, but no hard numbers have been given or anything like that. >> Okay. So you're assuming it's all on you. >> So what do you make? >> Yeah, I make 90 before

>> 190. Cool. Do you guys have any debt?

>> No debt. Wow.

>> It's not too much.

>> It's not too much. Okay. >> Not if you pay cash.

>> That's exciting. >> Okay. >> You You want to know how I did that?

>> Yes. >> Here's fun. Okay. Average household income in America right now is about $75,000.

The average wedding in America is about $36,000.

It's about half of the average income.

So, if you spend more than half your annual income on your wedding, and if you're paying for all of it, which it sounds like you are, okay? Um, then

you're spending too much on a wedding because you're more than half the average. Now, here's the thing. Keep in mind, average kind of sucks in America.

We don't necessarily want to be average, but um, but you're below 50% of your

>> your uh way below 50% of your $270,000

income.

And so you're you're you're as on a ratio basis, you are half of the

national average, >> which is half.

Weird way to say that, but yeah. So I mean, the national average would put if you if you spent 50% of your income, it'd be 135. >> So you're well below what the average person >> and you're about half of that at 60. And so you're you're very conservative as a ratio.

But now for somebody makes a hundred grand, it sounds like that, you know,

uh, Alyssa's lost her mind, >> you know, but that's what people say that don't have any money and and you've got some money. So >> yeah, when you have more money, you can spend more. >> Yeah. >> of it >> without it being a problem. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and if that doesn't include the honeymoon and we added, I don't know, 10

or 15 on top of that, it >> I'm talking about the wedding. The honeymoon's a different different story now. >> I think that'd be fine. And the the engagement ring is another story. Okay.

But um >> yeah, that's a good differential though. When we're talk about talking about the wedding, there are those three components. There's the rings, then there's the actual party, and then there's your honeymoon. >> What do you do for a living?

>> I do medical sales and he does product

management. >> Cool. Okay. Well, he's going to really like this last suggestion. We've done

three weddings at the Ramsies. I've got three kids that are all married and been married many, many years. Okay. And um Ramsay's we like a big party. We like to celebrate stuff like that. And so um we

we threw major parties on each of these weddings. It was a lot of fun. Um but we learned and that and we did it from the first one. We we introduced this idea that for your fiance will love me. Your

wedding is a project. So let's lay out a budget. >> Yeah. >> In detail. If we're going to spend 60, how much of that's the dress? How much of that's the reception? How much of that's the videographer? How much of that's the preacher? How much is the venue? >> And you lay out a budget. And then guess what? You stick to the budget.

>> And that would be my word of wise for you, Alyssa, because when you when you hear what Dave said, which is >> Yeah. Which is technically you could be spending more if you were being quote average. So for you, the hard part is going to say even though we could spend more, we're going to stick to what we said in the beginning of 60,000.

>> Yeah. I I would pretend like that um that you work for someone and your job was to manage a $60,000 budget and bring the event in on budget on schedule

because your manager project. It's an event project. I mean, we manage events here. It's what it is. And so this is >> and you get fired if you went over someone else's budget. >> Yeah. If you if you work for somebody, you get fired if you screwed it up, right? So that just treat it like it's serious business. And and I know that doesn't sound very romantic, but people use romance as a way to do a lot of stupid butt stuff. So, no, we're not doing that. So, um, no, just lay it out

exactly and you say this is, and you can pull up some percentages. There's some good guidelines online for how much to spend on the dress. I will go ahead and tell you if you're going to have a nice reception to have the big party, it's going to be your biggest line item by far.

>> Like, how many people you think I mean 60,000, you're thinking about inviting a decent number of people, aren't you?

>> It's not huge. So, we've already booked the venue. Um, and we're going through that process, but I'm more of the saver and he's more of the spender. And so, thinking of kind of the rough estimate that we put together with all the, >> you know, videographer, photographer, and all of that, it it just sounds like a lot of money. So, I >> Yeah, I I hesitant and not >> You know what I saying? You know what I mean? When I say scope creep.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. This project, this thing will creep up and the 60 will turn into 80.

Mhm. >> If you do not if you do not line item this and no rough estimates is freaking what we're going to do. And then when you're meeting with the caterer and they go, "Well, we can't add devil egg." No, no, that's all we got.

>> This is what we're doing. >> And well, you know, we could spend, you know, freaking $85,000 on flowers. Who's getting married here? Princess die.

I mean, seriously. So, you know, we're going to go in the field, pick some wild flowers so that we don't we stay on budget. Rachel actually did that one >> because she was over budget on other stuff and the only way she could get it back in budget was to get the flowers down. >> If nothing else, plan for 54.

So at least you've got 10% set aside just as contingency. >> Oh, >> that's what I'd do. >> A little slush fund in the line. >> A little just in case.

>> Yeah, a little just in case fund. I'd have something in there for that. I don't know if I get away with that, but Wow. Wow.

Um yeah, that's exactly how I would do it. And listen, I think you're approaching it very wisely. um you're not counting on the people who have been vague about their possible input.

Uh matter of fact, whatever they come forth with, I'd probably just use that for the honeymoon. And I just lock this baby down on 60 and just go, "We're

doing it." And you and the fiance sit down, agree to that, go, "This is a project like you manage at work. We're going to manage this. We're going to come in on budget. We're going to get the details out." Because there's always something that you can go higher. You can always go one bigger, one better on everything. You get the extra large shrimp instead of the large shrimp.

>> What was the thing on Father of the Bride? Cheaper chicken. >> Oh, yeah. >> Or the cheaper chicken. Yeah. >> You get ice sculptures. >> Yeah, that's it. And so, yeah, you can do it. And you can do that on a $10,000 budget. You can do it on a $60,000 budget. You can do it on whatever. You just manage the budget. That's right. This is what we're doing. And so, uh, it's just we're going to have to get super creative. We're going to do this for 7,800 bucks.

>> We had a lady here on the team that got married and, uh, had a really nice little wedding for 7,000 bucks. and she just slam, you know, they were trying to get out of debt and that's the most they weren't going to spend and uh it was it was really very nice. >> Can I tell you the Okay, Sam and I paid for our wedding out of pocket. Oh, it was like 10,000. >> Okay. >> Um it was a little bit more but I my

biggest regret to this day and it was in the name of doing it debtree. We didn't have an open bar.

>> No open bar. >> That's your That's your regret that you didn't booze up everybody else for free?

>> I mean we were on a yacht. We were It just made sense. You should have had There should have been some drinks on board and >> you you didn't have a Oh, >> there was no open bar. >> There was no bar. >> No. >> No. What? Not. They couldn't even pay.

>> No. >> Open bar would be like you paid.

>> No. Well, I thought it was tacky to have people pay. So, there just was no bar.

>> Just no. Oh, well. Okay. I'll go with that. Okay. But >> listen, it was a mistake. >> That's okay. You know what? They don't remember it. You're the only one that does. >> I guess so. I don't know about that, but >> Sam doesn't even remember it.

[Music]

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Richard's in Oklahoma. Hi Richard.

Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hey, thanks. Um, boy, I don't know. Uh,

I don't really know where where to start. >> Okay. >> I'm beginning to think I'm I think I'm a lost cause. >> Um, I went through I went through a very similar situation, actually an identical situation that you did.

>> Um, but I was much later in life. I was 55 uh when the banking I was in the mortgage business for 10 years when everything crashed. Um, I lost everything. I was completely ruined.

>> Um, my my confidence was kicked out the door. >> Um, >> so I went through a um I went through a few years of trying to uh get my act together and um went to uh went to

Florida. Uh basically I went back to the one place that uh you never want to go but the one place that's got to take you in. So, um, my mom was very elderly at the time and, um, so I went out and I was taking care of her in Florida. Um, and then it got to a point where I was going to need somebody to help. So, I

got to drive a truck.

Um, and it was something that was kind of conducive because it was like I'd be in the truck and they say, "Okay, uh, where am I going now?" And, um, it was

only going to be for a couple years. I was going to drive for a couple years.

and uh then joined the merchant marines.

I wasn't married. I had lost everything.

Um I had no children and um um

then um uh I was going to join the merchant marines. I figured, okay, I'll drive the country for a couple years, then go sail the world for a couple years. But um then I had to put my mom into assisted living.

>> So in order to handle that, I stayed on the truck and uh was paying for that.

Uh, and I also figured, well, you know, if something came down, I'm a day or two days away versus, you know, a month to two months away. >> I'm sorry, Richard. How can we best help today?

>> Well, it's Well, it's um um

I you know, I never I never sailed, you

know, I never really planned it. You know, based upon a previous caller, I was only totally ignorant and intimidated and not knowing anything about investing, >> afraid of missing out at this um afraid

of losing. And then afterwards, how old are you missing out?

>> Right now, I'm 72. And >> how much money do you have now?

>> Right now, I've got $40,000 in a in a savings account, 5%.

>> Okay. >> Um out of out of what? because then in um in after a couple years then I got involved with something else and it would looked like it was going well and um put good

money after bad when CO hit.

>> Are you still driving? Are you still driving trucks? Are you still working, Richard? >> Yes, I'm still driving now. What my plan was um I wanted to have more of a nest

egg. I wanted Well, I shouldn't say nest egg. I wanted to have, you know, my goal was to have $50,000 in the bank for me to get off the truck, get back to uh um

um get back to Texas where there was a community there of people with common interests and then really research what I could do um >> without without having to try it.

>> What's going on with your what what happened to the house your mom was living in before she went in assisted living? Well, when she died, um it was a at one

point she had taken a reverse mortgage on it, so it went to the bank. >> Oh, shoot.

>> Yeah. And it was a condominium there in

in in Florida.

>> So, so it was worth nothing,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> Um so there are >> Are you just living in your cab? Where are you living? >> Yeah, I'm living on the truck. Technically, I'm homeless. Um,

>> I was living in I was living in Florida.

I had a room. I was renting and a dear

friend of mine.

>> Well, you know, I was just figuring that out because fortunately for the company I drive for that I've been with for a while now, a number of years, they have a minimum of 1250 a week. Uh because you

don't always you can go out and get with the way it is with driving they pay by the mile but they can pay a dollar mile but if you're only getting 300 miles a week that's that doesn't really count.

>> So what do you make Richard?

>> Um with my social security it comes to about 80,000 gross.

>> Okay. And you don't have any overhead because you're living in the truck. How much of that can you save? Can you not save $40,000 a year?

Well, I'm I've been uh I had credit card

debt and um I've been paying that down and then um >> Is it gone? >> I thought you said you were debtree.

>> Um well, no, I didn't mean debtree. I'm

sorry. Um I out of >> How much credit card debt do you have now today? >> 2500 out of what was at one time 60,000.

>> Good. And how much other debt do you have, Han?

Um really um really I I owe the IRS uh

but I'm getting with an account in the beginning next week because I filed an extension >> only 2500 2500 >> right so 4500 and 2500 makes you debtree and then you start stacking cash as fast and as hard as you can for as long as you can drive and you start stacking it to the tune of $4,000 $3,000 a month into a good growth stock mutual fund and you sit down with a smart investor pro if you can do that for five years you could build a good nest egg. >> Mhm. >> I don't know if you got 5 years left, but uh in terms of passing your exams and everything to stay on the road and be safe and all that, but >> but you got to do this today.

Like, you've got to start today. Get online, find that. Don't put it off because if you do, you're going to fall back in your same habit and you're just going to put it in a savings account and it's not going to do any of what Dave is saying it's going to do. So, you've got to do it today.

>> Yeah. I want to set up $3,000 a month automatically coming out of your checking account and then I want you to add more in addition to that. um going straight into mutual funds for your investing. That's $36,000 a year.

It'll be hundred and a half by the time you get done with it with growth. It'll be at 300 before you know it after that in terms of more growth. So, you can actually build an estig, but you're going to have to lean on it and uh your adventures are over now. You're just grinding. We ain't no more time for adventures. We're just going to grind and no more interferences. We have to grind. Whatever comes up, we got to grind. Whatever it is, we got to shift the gears and go. Shift gears and go.

Shift gears and go. Got to make it. You got to make that money. And you take all the runs you can take and you pile the cash as high as you can pile it as quick as you can pile it cuz you are in emergency mode. You're not a lost cause.

But if you don't change your ways, you are. But it's not because the math is killing you. It's cuz you're killing you. >> Do you think he owns that? You got to get you got to get that those two little debts cleaned up right now as soon as poss.

Take the 40,000 and pay off the credit cards and cut them up today and pay off the IRS today. As soon as you get with your tax guy and you figure out exactly what it is, write a check and pay them.

>> Do not delay. Put that behind you and then let's get because that'll leave you $34,000 in your emergency fund, which is just fine. leave that there for the emergency fund and then run over to your go over today like Jaden said and get get an automatic draft started on your checking account for $3,000 a month. And you can do this.

You can do that and and that's going to put you in a much better place three years from now than you ever dreamed you were going to be. >> Um between that and social security.

>> yeah, you you know, you're going to be working a while longer. That's for sure.

Um and but then that'll get that'll get you away from wolf get the wolf away from the door. >> Yeah. Is that truck his asset or does he have to turn that in when he's done? >> No, he's working for somebody. He's driving their truck which is just fine.

>> Okay. >> So, because otherwise that stupid thing is going down in value and that'd be another debt we own, >> right? >> No, he's much better off. He's much better off in the seat he's in.

>> That's the place to be, especially in this situation. >> So, um >> yeah, just just grind. Just grind. Just grind. Just grind. And um you've had a

lot of drama in the last uh 20 years.

And you don't you don't for the next five years you don't get any more drama.

You don't have room for it. You got to grind and pile cash. Grind and pile cash. If drama knocks at the door, tell them to go next door. We don't have a plague going on here. Okay? It's going to have to go somewhere else.

>> You really do. I mean, you you've had your share of it, my friend. So, but it's not hopeless at all. But you're going to have to the the only way it's not is if you lean in and That's right.

really get laser focused on this and knock the crud out of it.

>> But but it can be done. So yeah, there'd be 100,000 in three years you'd have in there. A little better than that, about 110. And that will have grown

probably be bumping down to 100 and a half. >> And then if you left 100 and a half alone for seven years, it' be 300, but you don't have seven years there. So yeah, but you're going to have some money. you have a little bit of money and you'll have your um >> at least not be right on the edge of everything and get you a little something >> apartment to rent, >> very inexpensive apartment to rent and come off the road and do something else then too. But um yeah, I' I'd plan on

doing something plan on creating an income. have to [Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work. So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional. If you're going to be out of work for a while, then you need to make sure the money still showing up.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

If you're ever around the Nashville area, stop by and see us. We do the show on the glass live from 1 to 4 central

time every day. And there's usually 50 to 200 people out here. Um, partly to watch the show, but partly because the coffee and the homemade cookies are free. So, there's that. And come by and hang out with us. We do pictures at the commercial breaks and all that kind of stuff. and you might have the opportunity to uh see someone stand on the debtree stage right here in the lobby to do their debtree scream. Dave and Roxan are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hi Dave. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do you live?

>> We're from Calgary, Canada.

>> Fine. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> Uh 700 to uh,970.

>> Wow. Oh. How long did this take?

>> About 7 years and uh four months. I I

smell a a home payoff.

>> Yes. >> Good for you. We're looking at weird people. >> I love it. What's this house worth?

>> About 800,000 right now.

>> Wow. >> Very cool. And how much in your nest egg these days? >> About 320. >> So you're millionaires. Baby steps millionaires. >> How old are you two? >> I'm 37. >> I'm 45. >> And you're Baby Steps millionaires in Calgary, Canada. I'm so proud of y'all.

>> Awesome. Thank you. >> Way to go. How's that feel?

>> Feels amazing. >> Amazing. Yeah. >> How many millionaires in your uh in your line? Your parents, your grandparents, all that kind of thing. >> Um, >> no one. >> No one. >> You're the first one. You broke it.

>> And my brother's here with me. I think he's going to He's a millionaire. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. So, both of you made it. All right. Good. So, a whole new line to the family tree coming with you, too. >> Yes. >> Way to go, guys. I'm proud of you.

Excellent job. All right. and your range of income during that seven years.

>> Yeah, it's really interesting. We started at 30,000, almost made nothing and uh by the end of the journey, 7-year journey, we make about 700,000 right now. >> Oh, amazing. >> 700. >> Amazing. >> What do y'all do? We we started I was a

general manager uh of a cleaning company and a facility company and >> um I used to work in finance in a government >> and along the way we started an online business and uh in um affiliate marketing and it started the sales started to pick up and that's what we do full-time now >> in freight marketing. >> No no affiliate marketing >> affiliate marketing high ticket. Yeah.

>> Oh wow. Good for you.

>> Awesome. >> Pretty cool. Well congratulations you two. Thank you. >> Zoom. Zoom. What a wonderful income.

This is very cool. All right. How did uh how did two a power couple like you guys get plugged into the Ramsey stuff.

>> Um it started actually I was listening to Joyce Mayor um sermon and it she talks about um financial peace university total money makeover by Dave Ramsey. So I started searching about you. I got so excited about Baby Steps and I showed it to him and he's very skeptical. >> I was skeptical. I used to be a financial adviser. I wasn't a big fan of uh Dave Ramsey at the time.

And but our turning point was that it was February 2018. Uh at that point um

we had about $86,000 of consumer debt.

Uh 24 failed businesses.

>> Wow. >> And uh the only thing that was left for us was that we were managing a uh an apartment and we were living for free.

Again, our income was about 30,000. We got home and we got an eviction letter saying we don't need you anymore. M >> and that kind of almost broke us. And I remember that day we were afraid, you know, we were mad at each other for, you know, saving nothing and living for free.

And I remember Roxan prayed this very powerful prayer, right? >> Yeah. I asked God to heal our finances um to lead us to a solution and um to lead us to the right opportunity.

>> Yeah. and and and that's when we you know for me it's like total surrender. I said you know what I may be a financial adviser but uh as Dave would say you know I don't like have a six-pack right so I'm f I'm a fat financial adviser so I need to have total surrender and we went all in after that so >> Wow. >> Wow. So you just plugged in online?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Online cuz it they don't from what I know they don't have it >> live in Canada and Canada doesn't like the word university >> when it's not like a real university. So they won't let us in there. But yeah.

Wow. So cool, man. I'm proud of you.

>> Thank you. >> Very neat. So, um, what was the first

thing you did to get the income up?

>> Yeah. So, >> I mean, you're sitting there homeless.

>> Al almost. >> So, we started, um, you know, I I started to apply on, uh, I mean, full-time and, you know, like we're employable. Um, so I got full-time job

and then you got full-time job. We started go back to actually work because we had this >> mentality of like we're, you know, we're want to be entrepreneurs, but we didn't want to have a full-time job because we have a wrong mindset about hard work.

So, we all actually went back to full-time work, >> Roxan and I. And then we went intense.

We had cleaning jobs. We had, >> you know, the best side hustle for us was like we had a um we rented our apartment that we were living in, right?

>> Yeah. And >> um because we were living in a a two-bedroom apartment um and we started to rent the second bedroom um to international students >> um and that I think it gave us like $500

extra >> and then we sold our Mercedes-Benz. It took us like 3 months to really think about it. So we sold that uh Mercedes-us Benz that free us more um cash flow for

us. >> And then we sold some stuff in uh Facebook Marketplace as well. and we did cleaning jobs. >> Yeah. Everything that we saw that wasn't, you know, we had like three iPads for some reason. We sold two of them. I had an old golf club. We sold it. >> You know, we had an old suit. We put it in FB marketplace. Everything must go.

>> You know, there was a there was a um um >> So, where did you grow up?

>> Um I grew up in the Philippines and he grew up in the Philippines, too.

>> Okay. All right. >> And so, you're in you moved to Canada.

Um whole new opportunity. Yeah.

>> Whole new set of things. bunch of failed businesses, take the full-time jobs plus all the side hustles, start scratching and digging and one of those side hustles became the affiliate marketing that blew up. >> Yeah. Along the way, um, you know, I was I was I wanted to come here to thank you, Dave, because I >> we talk about that the this journey healed us because on those businesses, it wasn't the business per se.

It was, you know, I was our impatience. You know, we had a sickness called ABD.

when the business become >> sounds like an entrepreneur to me.

>> When the business became challenging, we said maybe there's something easier out there. But baby step two really taught us to be patient, have you know have spirit of contentment, you know, be be creative, be resourceful, everything an entrepreneur needs, right? And when we hit our, >> you know, the business along the way, it was February started October 2018 is when we started affiliate marketing.

Mhm. >> That's it took off because, you know, God blessed that business because we now have the character, the foundation >> that sits on it. So, it's >> something. You guys are incredible.

>> That's amazing. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Preach it. Preach it. I love it.

Well done. So proud of you.

>> Way to go. >> How's it feel now to be this age

>> and uh you know, I mean, you go through

all of that and now you're millionaires already. >> Thank you. >> And uh it was not a smooth journey.

>> It was a it was a gut-wrenching journey.

Mhm. >> Uh but rich rich and uh um so how's it

feel now that you're there? >> Feels weird to be weird.

>> Feels amazing. Um at peace um knowing that you know we're taking care of God's resources. Um we we learned that it's not our money, it's um it's God's money.

And we realize that if if God blessed us earlier, we would lose it. Yeah.

>> But now because God knows that we're prepared, so we he we can handle more.

So >> yeah, when you're faithful in the little things, you'll be given more to manage.

>> Yeah. >> Yes. It's >> pretty much in his scriptures. Love it.

Proud of y'all. Very, very well done.

And uh you brought your son with you, right? >> Bring him up. Do you want to introduce him? Have him part of this? >> Yes. >> All right. How how old is he and what's his name? >> He's four years old. His name is Caleb.

>> Hey, Caleb. Well done, brother. All right.

He just being the handoff here. I love it. Very cool. Good-looking guy.

>> Fun, fun, fun. He has no idea how much of a hero his mom and dad are. Uh they've changed their entire lives. Very

cool. Their entire family tree is completely shaken up. Way to go, Caleb.

Pretty cool. You selected good parents, brother. >> So cool. >> Good job. All right, Dave and Roxan and Caleb. $73,000

paid off in 7 years and 4 months, making from 30,000 to 700,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 To God be the glory. We're

debtree.

>> I love it.

>> That's about as good as it gets right there, man. How fun. Way to go, you

guys.

[Music]

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Ryan is in Idaho. Hey Ryan, what's up?

>> Well, thanks to technology, I'm calling you from the tractor seat, so >> that's kind of neat. Um, so I guess the the main reason for my

call is you always say, uh, if you woke

up in my shoes, what would you do? So, I guess I I'm just looking for a little advice.

Um, so me and my wife have been married about 5 years. Uh, we've had a couple of little kids and uh I pursued a a degree

in diesel mechanics and then moved to a commercial potato farm as a as a diesel mechanic. Um, so this time of year I

make a a very large substantial amount of money during the harvest and then kind of tapers off during the rest of year as we do maintenance and other things. So, I kind of live on a boom and

a bust cycle. And uh we've kind of been

working the big steps trying to get stuff paid off while we have the money to do so. And um I've kind of just been

trying to figure out what to do. My my wife's been very sick. A lot of our our debt is actually medical debt.

And we found kind of a I guess like a

hormonal therapy. It's It's kind of a an extensive um program to help her feel better. And

I'm kind of in a in a weird place where I'm making a lot of money and I'm like, "Well, do I take the money and start paying off debt or do I take some money and help her feel better so we don't have as much medical debt in the future?" >> I kind of just You help your wife. You help your wife, sir.

>> Before you do anything before you do anything, you take care of what what's the nature of what's the nature of her illness?

It's it's more hormonal. Uh all the doctors have kind of said after she had babies, it just kind of messed with her hormones. And so we kind of been to a bunch of different doctors and and really the biggest issue is that it's not it's not covered under any kind of insurance. It's not anything we can we can just take care of. And so we've we've sought out a lot of >> So is she struggling with depression after the postpartum?

>> Oh, all sorts of different things. uh depression on top of just actual illness. I mean, she's sick all the time. She doesn't feel good. And trying to take care of two little kids while I'm on, you know, I'm out in the field gone all day. It's just >> What's it costing you? What's it costing you to do the treatments? Are you just you're hitting your max every year? Is that what it is?

>> No, it's it's completely it's got to be completely out of pocket. So, the doctors have said it's about a $6,000 procedure that I just have to come up with cash >> $6,000, >> which I can do. Obviously, I make I make a lot of money right now.

>> What's What's a lot of money? >> I don't pay anything on my debt.

>> What's a lot of money? >> I make about 20 grand a month during harvest.

>> Okay. And so for three or four months

pile >> Yeah. I can stockpile a lot of money right now. >> So you make 60 grand in three months, but then you don't make much the rest of the year. >> Yeah. What do you make the rest of the year?

Um, I average,

so I make about 80 a year.

>> Okay. >> And so I'd say probably half. It's probably closer to 30 or 40 grand during harvest and then the rest year kind of evens out. So I still have a consistent paycheck. >> Okay. All right. And um Okay. So I I

don't know anything medically about where you are. Um, but if you have a high probability in your mind and you've solved for that that that this I mean you work on engines and so if the doctors have convinced you that this will work on your wife um you know you're trying is this a high probability of a fix. I don't want to throw $6,000 on something that they just hope it might work. >> You know it's a 10 10% probability.

No thank you. I'll figure out something else.

>> Okay. >> Everything's everything's paying minimum payments and you're living on a budget and you come up with six grand and then we go back to we're living on a budget and we start paying down the smallest debt, the largest debt.

>> Okay. And and that's kind of what it it

was kind of hard because it's not it's one of those things where it's like I feel like we should pay it, but even my wife's in here like we need the money for other things. We're trying to pay off debts. We're trying to get >> Well, I mean, you're probably spending $6,000 on medical bills, though, >> right? >> That's the thing.

If you don't do this, you're going to spend the same money coming in and out of the hospital, right? >> On other things, >> I guess. I don't know. I don't know what you're dealing with.

And I'm not a medical doctor if you know I couldn't tell you if I did know. But um it's a fairly the way you've explained is pretty vague. I have no idea what she's facing.

uh you know I I

don't know. It sounds like it's immune disorder of some kind. >> I don't know. But I do know I I think the hard part is when you're wanting to go, you know, hard on the baby steps, it's it's hard to let other things go in front of that.

But the truth is, yeah, health health when you have a health concern or something that's very seriously affecting your health, that does need to jump in. >> Yeah. Well, not not only do we not want to be sick and not want to hurt, but on top of that, just the mathematics are you come out ahead. >> Yeah.

>> If you don't have the medical bills because you paid the money to get the right get the treatment, you know, assuming it works. And that's that's the thing you've got to understand. And y'all need to be your own advocate with these >> very true >> off insurance procedures and make sure you've got a high probability of this stuff and it's not some witch doctor thing. I don't have any idea what you're getting into here.

>> But um but I I truly know nothing about it and I can't tell any I couldn't tell based on what you told me anyway. So um yeah, if you if you think it's going to help your wife then it gets first.

diligence to really know that I know that I know that this is going to have a, you know, that nine out of 10 patients, they do this, then they quit having the ongoing illnesses, right?

>> Yeah, that's right. Whatever it is we're trying to accomplish here. Let's let's let's see some cause and effect to this, not just, oh, well, I think this will work. Let's try her as our next guinea pig. No, I I don't want to do that either. Thank you, Kermit. That's okay. We'll pass. Uh Jay's with us in Arizona.

Hey, Jay. What's up?

Hey. Uh, so yeah, I got a question for you. My um I don't really know where to start. My my little sister was killed in an accident >> um a couple years back. >> Oh my god. The company responsible for it basically just failed to meet a whole bunch of safety regulations.

>> We have received >> 22. >> Wow. >> So sorry.

>> Sorry. Um we have we have received a wrongful

death payout. Um the grand total I don't

know about I have requested but I I have no interest in knowing. I just want to know what affects me. And basically what affects me is that my parents have set up trust accounts for everybody with

enough in them under the management of a financial advisor that I'm told that will set up generational wealth. I will not have to worry about retirement. My kids will not. My grandkids will not.

And we are being given on top of that um all of our debts outside of four walls are being wiped out. >> Wow. >> And then a onetime financial gift of 38,000.

And >> that sounds weird. >> You know, my parents financial >> where did that money where did that amount come from?

Um, in Arizona, the maximum amount that a married couple can give their kids is 38,000 before Uncle Sam wants his house.

>> Got it. Okay.

>> Uncle Sam lives in Washington, not in Arizona.

>> That's fair. Um, but um they've I mean

they've they randed the crap out of their finances. They're almost debtree.

Um and they weren't five years.

>> So your mom and dad are receiving this money, >> correct? >> And you don't know how much it is?

I don't know how much the grand total is. No high. >> What I what I would do is operate my life as if it wasn't there. And I would save for retirement and I would save for my kids college.

And then if any of this money does come your way as a result of all this um trust funds and all these things they're doing, then it's just gravy on the biscuit. It's just extra money. But I would continue to operate my life normally as if this wasn't there. And then if it comes, fine.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Jade Washaw Ramsay personality number one bestselling author is my co-host today.

Barbara is in Dallas. Hey Barbara, how are you?

>> I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up? >> I'm very nervous. >> That's okay darling. We've never lost a patient. How can we help?

>> I'm calling because I'm going to try to get through this without crying. Um, my mom recently suffered a series of strokes. >> Oh. >> And since then, she she had some

short-term memory loss and the medical

staff basically said that she should not be by herself anymore. And so, she does

live alone. And I'm she lives about 4

hours from me. She used to live with me.

um wanting to her to come back to live with me, but I'd have to live um build

onto my house to do that. Um I'm

recently debtree following the baby steps and I just don't know what to do because I don't have the money to

build saved. So, I was hoping y'all could help.

>> How old is she?

>> 75. And you said she's had a series of

strokes.

>> Yeah, she had a seven many strokes.

>> Oh, wow. >> So, is she mobile?

>> Yes, physically she's strong. It's more

her memory um that's been affected.

>> Okay, that that Yeah, that sounds right.

All right. Um what is her financial condition?

She no savings, no retirement,

nothing. Basically, >> she has no money.

>> No, >> she own her house.

>> She has a mortgage, but yeah, she has her house. >> What's it worth?

>> Probably about 150.

>> And what is owed on it?

>> Uh 50.

>> Okay.

Are you the Are you the um only child?

>> No, I have uh two siblings.

>> Okay. Are they going to take care of her?

>> They are. Right now, my sister lives about an hour. They go, she goes on the weekends and then my brother lives about 30 minutes and but they work in town so they go during the week, >> but she's by herself for the rest of the day. >> So that's probably what that would look like if she stayed there.

>> Sounds like that she needs to sell her house and be moved into assisted living to me. >> Mhm.

I don't think you need to build on

>> Okay, >> number one, your brother and sister are in town where she is. You're the one that's four hours away. You're going to move her four hours away from them >> and you need their help. >> And you need their help and they're willing to help and they're good people. They've been trying to help as best they could with their schedule. Okay.

>> Um >> Yeah. And number two,

um I if I'm 77 and I've had a series of strokes, um I don't know what my probability is to live five more years.

What do you think?

>> I have no idea. >> I don't know. But I don't It doesn't sound good. You know, I don't think this is a Most people that are in that situation don't live 15 years. Would you agree with that?

>> Sure. >> Yeah. I mean, we're all going to go sometime. Um, I'm not trying to be cold.

I know it's your mom, but I'm just trying to say, you know, you don't need to go spend 50 or $60,000

>> uh for something that's going to be for four or five years.

>> Even if she did live longer than that, it's probably going to be get past your ability to care for her.

>> Yeah. Cuz even if you even if you took,

let's just say, look, let's say you did sell her house and take the money and use it to build onto your house, it still doesn't cover the fact that you wouldn't be working because you'd be home taking care of her, right? Cuz some the fact remains that someone still has to take care of her during the day.

>> Yeah. >> Listen, I I I love your heart and I I

hope my kids want to take care of me as badly as you want to take care of her. I think that's awesome. And that's an act of love and that's a good heart thing.

I'm just trying to help you through the actual um the realities of your desire.

What is your desire? What's the reality of your desire to do this wonderful thing? And then what's best for mom?

What's going to give her the best quality of care? Um I think she's got those two kids right next to her. I I would find some kind of assisted living there. >> And um I'd sell the house and put her in that.

And if she outlives that, if she outlives that money there, then we'll work on something else.

>> Okay. >> But I suspect that you could probably get, you know, reasonable care in that area. I don't know. You just have to shop around and find out what's available and what can be done and so forth. Uh does either your brother or your sister have room for her if they had uh someone there to care for her in their home?

They do, but and they've offered for her

to go live with them, but she keeps

saying she doesn't want to. She wants to come here. >> Why? Why?

>> Is there Is there something with that? Because whenever we mentioned your siblings, you kind of have a bit of a pause >> and yet they're both doing their thing. They're helping.

>> Yeah, they are. They are. They definitely are. Um, it's

>> Do you just have the closest relationship? >> Say it again. Huh?

>> She used to live here with me. And when my dad was here, my dad passed away in 2018. >> Are you single?

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right.

Well, I mean, how many bedrooms do you have?

>> I have a three-bedroom house. Why would you need to build on?

>> The problem is is that she's got three

dogs and I have three dogs.

>> No, she doesn't. >> This is not This can't be about dogs.

>> We're not building onto a house for dogs.

>> Yeah. >> No, no, different discussion.

>> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> Sorry, Mom. You want to live here? We don't have three dogs.

I can help you with that. I love dogs. I love my dog more than I do most humans.

But no way. No way. We dogs don't make

this decision. This is too important, too big a decision. We're trying to figure out how to care for a lady who's had a series of strokes. And now dogs

enter the discussion. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So, no, she can move in with you. The dogs can't.

She sells her house and you put her in one of the bedrooms and you hire somebody to care for her there if you don't want to put her in assisted living. It's actually a better economic better economic value anyway. So, yeah, that's easy. Okay, let the dogs go stay with somebody.

Rehome them. Is that what they call it now? >> I don't even care. I just Now I know what the real deal is with the situation.

>> Yeah. The kid, the brother and sister said no dogs. >> Yeah.

You called us to go into debt to build a wing for the dogs. Come on, girl.

Seriously. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. Now we've gone. No. No. You

take care of your mom. That does not include taking care of her pets. This is a lady who has no money, has saved no money her whole life, and now her family is going to have to care for her. They are not obligated to take care of her dogs. I'm sorry. Dave's so cold. He's so mean to animals. He doesn't like animals. I love animals.

>> Yeah, but this is >> This is just way off the chart.

>> See

Heat. Heat. N.

[Music]

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Joseph's in California. Hi, Joseph. How are you? >> Hey, I'm doing great, sir. I got a question about a few problems I'm facing currently. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I current Okay. So, I've been a full-time gig worker. I've been driving for Uber and Lift and I financed two vehicles. Um, the first one I financed was a Honda CRV. Um, and when I

bought it, I bought it at the at the peak when prices were so uh inflated,

you know, dealerships were marking up prices and there was low inventory and, you know, the car prices were much higher, right? So, I bought it in 20 >> uh I financed it for 60 60k.

>> This was in 2020, like the beginning of 2022. >> You you financed a Honda for 60k to

drive Uber.

It was It was Okay. So, it was like 59 out the door. And >> Well, I mean, you financed a Honda >> for 50 or $60,000 to drive Uber >> and CRV. >> Correct. Cuz I I got So, the thing is I got advice from other drivers that, hey, you can really make good money. >> You got financial advice from other Uber drivers.

>> Yeah. >> You just said that out loud.

>> Yeah. >> Wow. Okay. >> Okay. So, you got the $60,000 car. What else? Yeah. And so it was just a regular SUV.

And so, um, I was making decent money at first. I was making about 2,700 a week, um, easily. And then I started seeing my earnings go down because then Uber, you know, they got rid of this one program called Uber Green, >> which most hybrid vehicles qualified at the time. >> Uh, and you know, Uber Green is like that feature that gives passengers the option to ride in a vehicle that's uh, eco-friendly, right?

And so a lot of them think that, you know, a clean hybrid vehicle or Tesla is going to show up to pick them up. So they got rid of that feature. So all hybrid vehicles don't qualify for that. So then my I would say my earnings dropped by like $500 or $600.

was talking to other drivers. They're like, "Hey, you might need to level up, get an XL vehicle, which is like a three row seat SUV, >> right?" So then what I did was >> So did you trade in the CRV for >> No, no, no. I I went to the I went to the dealership. I put down because I had savings of 50,000. I put put down 30,000

to get the um it was an Acura MDX.

>> So, you kept the Honda CRV and then got an Acura MDX.

>> Yeah, they they didn't want to they dealership was like, "Hey, we take it.

There's like a lot of negative equity." Da. So, I was like, "Maybe I should take maybe I should just keep this car." >> So, what' you pay for the MD? >> Disperse the miles.

>> Um about 54,000.

>> Oh, Lord. Um, and I got this, but I got this a little later. I I bought this one in like 2024.

>> You financed 54. So, you put down 30 and financed 54. So, you paid 84 for it.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. Stupid. That's exactly. And how

old are you? >> I'm really pissed off at my >> Joseph. How old are you, Joseph?

>> 29, sir. >> Okay. All right. Do you have a real job yet? And uh I did at the at the moment, but I was just I wasn't making the kind of money that I was making doing Uber and Lift.

>> No, honey. You weren't making any money doing Uber and Lift because you haven't been smart enough to factor in all the losses on your vehicles.

>> You're right. You're right. >> When you factor that in, you didn't even break even. And by the way, you didn't take out gas and and repairs either, did you? >> No. >> Yeah. And I was going to get to that. Yeah. >> By the time you do all of that, you didn't even make you didn't even make money on all this. You've been working for free for Uber.

>> That's true. Um because I I at first I saw the money was great. You know, like when I got >> No, the gross revenue was great. The net profit was not great. >> 3500, >> right? >> There's a difference. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, now you're stuck in these two cars, honey. >> What a mess. >> Two car loans.

>> And And do you have a job now?

>> Uh currently, uh yes, I do have a job.

What do you make? Um, unfortunately about 22 an hour. Not a lot.

>> Okay. What were you doing? >> I don't have many. I don't have I don't have a lot of skills, you know. >> What were you doing before your Uber escapades?

>> Yeah, I was just I was working as an I was just doing regular uh minimum wage jobs, you know, like working in customer service industry, like fast food, restaurants, you know, service industry and then, you know, security. the Acura.

You put 30,000 down, you should not be upside down. You should be able to sell this vehicle. What's it worth

>> there? Okay. So, if I were to sell it to a dealership um >> private sale, please take it for >> private sale, not >> private sale. I've I've um private sale.

I mean, it's worth on Kelly Blueick about 48 because I owe on it.

>> And you owe what?

>> Uh 54. A little over 54. So, and but the

problem is I don't have any money left over, so I wouldn't even be able to pay the difference. >> I understand that. I'm just trying to You put down $30,000, you've driven it one year, and you're already upside down.

>> Yeah. >> Oh my gosh.

>> Are you sure? Wait a minute. That is that that's what the dealer >> There's just no way. Yeah.

>> I mean, how many miles put on How many miles you put on it?

>> About 30,000.

>> Oh, something doesn't add Does that Does that sound right? >> No. I was going to say that doesn't add up to me.

>> Um, okay. So, well, here's the deal.

>> Well, no, because it's a newer It's a 2024. That's why the value is not so low. >> That's why it dropped so much. Mhm.

>> Still. >> Oh, no. Wait, wait. Did it I'm confused.

Were you guys expecting a lower number than 40? >> Well, well, typically expecting a higher number. >> Yeah, because you put 30,000 down, which means there's that much room. You had to lose $30,000 in value before you got upside down. >> Right. Right. But when I bought it, it was brand new, had zero miles. I put 30,000 miles on, >> which is not a lot.

>> It is in one year, but it's not enough to devalue it that far.

>> Um. All right. And they're rough milesing. Um,

>> is your is is your is your credit terrible? Can you go to the get down to the bank and get a loan for the difference?

No, it's Yeah, it's kind of bad because I'm I'm I'm late. I've been late for a month. >> Okay. >> On one vehicle. >> And I assume both of these loans are with the car companies, right?

>> Yeah. Both with the same. Yeah.

>> No, they're with the same. Who are they with?

>> Uh, you know, Honda, what do you call it? Finance. There's like Yeah.

>> Yeah. They have like their own financing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Got it from the same dealership and so Yeah. >> Okay. Um, well, what I'm going to do is try to scramble and get out of these cars with car loans and extra work. I want you to work a bazillion hours and not at Uber.

>> Um, actually, actually, you got two cars sitting there. You could go make some money with Uber now and pile up some cash really, really fast. I mean, how fast can you make $6,000? >> How fast you make $6,000 and just put that aside and get rid of this one car driving the other one. >> Drive the Honda. issue. So, so that's

what I was trying to tell my family members that maybe I should move to a different market where I can make that money because my earnings drop.

>> Listen, you can make $6,000 make doing anything. I don't care if you get a job at Target. >> I I ma'am, I get that. It's It's not

simple, you know, especially with like I got to pay for like groceries. I got to pay for, you know, what market are you in? >> That's for California.

>> I know. We're in California.

>> Yeah. Uh San Francisco.

>> Okay. Yeah, you probably do need to move to a different market. You're in one of the most expensive markets in the world.

Um the only good thing is there the Uber is expensive, but other than that, your cost of living is killing you. That's going to >> so yeah, you know, but but I do want you to do something to earn a bunch of money as fast as you possibly can. And yeah, if you move, that's fine, but you've you know, you've got to reverse the things that are killing you. And that the first thing is to not be driving the Honda the

the second car cuz we've got to get out of it. It's the one you have a chance of getting out of the other one. You're neck deep in it.

>> And if you just turn these cars in, they're going to sell them for 50% of what you think they're going to sell them for and they're going to sue you for the difference and you're going to find yourself in bankruptcy and you're going to find out that Uber your Uber career bankrupted you along with some really stupid decisions. But um that's where you're going to end up if you don't fight your way through these. So voluntary repositions or straight up repossession are really really bad for you, Joseph.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the DebtFree stage. Zach and McKenna are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Good. We're doing well. Yeah, happy to be here. >> Where do you guys live? >> Uh we're out in the uh Seattle area in Washington State. >> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> A whopping just north of $68,000.

>> Nice. >> Good for you. And how long did that take? >> Took about two and a half years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Started off at about 117,000, took a dip to zero, and now we're looking at finishing off at about 150 this year.

>> Good. What do you guys do for a living?

>> Uh, I'm a police officer.

>> Cool. >> Yep. And then I stay home with our four kiddos. >> Love it. Love it. Congratulations. And what kind of debt was the 68,000?

>> Well, it was a little bit of everything.

Uh, big chunk of it was medical debt. We had car debt. Uh, we had credit card debt. And I think that was about it. Oh,

yeah. Pretty much everything you could have is what we have. Kind of normal. A good mix. >> Normal is no fun. How long y'all been married? >> Uh, it'll be 10 years. Yeah.

>> Okay. That's about the mark. Yeah. Took you that long to get there. Yeah. Okay.

And then, um, two and a half years ago, something happened. What happened?

>> Yeah. We were kind of, it felt like our paycheck was constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul type of thing. Our credit cards were just about maxed out. And when they just had just enough wiggle room, we'd pull from another account to pay for that bill and this bill.

It just got to a point where we we felt like we're on a sinking ship and we just had to change something. So >> yeah.

bills and and that was really stressful obviously and then you >> bring four kids into the picture and >> Oh yeah, sure. >> all of a sudden that stress becomes just even more so and So, how'd you find us?

>> Uh, it's funny. My mom, uh, I was a missionary for my church way back in the day, and she gave me a book, the uh, I forget which one. We've read a whole bunch of them, but she gave it to me and I read it and for, for whatever reason, I didn't think we had to go past the first baby step of a $1,000 emergency fund. We did that forever and then it was like, "Oh, yeah, we're not supposed to have debt." So, we've always been around and exposed to it.

And then my little pee brain finally figured out that we're supposed to get past that that first baby step. And that's kind of where we just when we hit that head of we can't really pay for anything anymore and we got to make a change and that's kind of when we got back into things. So >> yeah. Wow.

>> Yeah. So I got I worked in the tech industry and uh it was during COVID the

market was real hot. It was really easy to get a job and that's when I got up to 117 and then as CO kind of died down uh

I got laid off for about five months and so that was went down to z and that was in the midst of us trying to pay off our debt. So that that was a really uh big hurdle in the whole middle of that and that's why I made the career change from working in tech to now being a police officer. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Very cool. And in Seattle proper >> uh just outside of Seattle. Yeah. Real close. >> Okay. Good for you. Wow. Well done.

>> That's a big deal. You know, paying off $68,000 with four kids at home, middle of a career change. I mean, what I have some guesses, but what was the hardest part? >> Uh it was just the I think we were talking about this earlier and for us it was just the time away. uh being the sole provider, it was I was putting in 60 to 80 hour weeks for almost two and a

half years. Um and so it was it just the

time away from the family and the kids was really really hard. >> Yeah, we had a lot of conversation with the kids because he went from being a work at home dad, you know, he was at home with his tech job and and so it was really hard all of a sudden to have him at home 24/7 basically and then he lost his job for a few months.

been gone a lot and he still is because we've got some goals we're working towards and um >> so yeah it was we had lots of hard conversations with the kids and luckily though they've been on board with us which we've been grateful for and um we'd rather do it now while they're little than you know later and and

stuff. >> Gosh. Yeah. >> Yeah.

You're changing your whole family tree. It's worth it. Worth it. They'll be better off.

You'll be better off. Everybody will be. >> Yeah. The whole mindset change too was huge.

I remember the first time when we first were like, okay, we're actually sticking to a budget and we're in the I think it was Walmart selfch checkckout and we were like a dollar over and it was for some stupid poster board and they had to do the walk of shame all the way back to the back of the store like can't afford this like yeah it's a dollar and I can't have it. I had to go back. It is and that's what made that change was just snap. Yep.

We had to change a lot of habits of you know the immediate gratification and delaying that was huge. >> There was a lot of peace with that too.

goals. Yeah. And it was just there was a light at the end of the tunnel finally.

Yeah, >> I want to ask more about that because a lot of people will say, you know, when we're telling people to be gazelle intense and and just really go hard and baby step to, you know, the push back is, well, you know, I got to pick up my coffee and I I just, you know, I got to do my run through Chick-fil-A, whatever.

>> But what you said about the poster board, it is true. You know, how you do anything is how you do everything. So, talk to that person who says, "Jade, my my latte doesn't matter." Or, you know, just this one thing. Talk to that person.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's you you get to choose which discomfort you have, right? Do you want the short-term discomfort of not having your latte or the long-term discomfort of being in debt and that stress and and for us it was an easy choice when we put it in that perspective, that lens of what would I rather have now or in the future. And it's it makes it real simple when you look at it in a bigger perspective.

>> I agree. >> Yeah, it it shuts down the need for it then. I mean, what feels like a need just becomes a want. You go, >> yeah, >> I don't have to have it right now control.

Yeah. >> I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else. >> Yeah. Yeah.

And these kids whole lives are changed because of you. Way to go, Hero. Proud of y'all.

Very, very well done. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? >> Yeah. Just make a plan and stick to it.

It's >> It's just like working out, losing weight. It's the the answer is really, really simple. You just got to stick to it. Just make that choice and and whatever that reason why is, make it bigger than the discomfort.

>> Yeah. And I think being okay having to do a little bit of extra, you know, on the side or whatever. I mean, we had to get real creative over the past couple years. And there were times we were doing plasma, we were doing, you know, selling things.

We were Yeah, it was just whatever we could do. We were trying to find cuz every little bit just again got us closer to the end. So, >> it's not forever. It's a short period of time if you do it right.

And it's not that it's not that once you're done, you're like, "Oh, that wasn't that bad.

>> The whole family. Yeah. It's uh her side of the family. Our family that's right over here.

They were cheering us on the whole time our time. >> That's great to have. Yeah. Yeah, we've got a lot of family that's uh debtfree, so they're all out of a lot of them are out of debt and so they they were great because they all knew what it felt like and so they were there encouraging us kind of along the way.

So >> go it feels good. Yeah, they knew what it felt like. So that does make a difference and and it's worth it. It's worth it.

You know, I know it's hard, but it's worth it.

>> Yeah. That's that's the kind of cheerleaders you need. Ones that are knowledgeable. Very good stuff. All right. And you brought a couple of the four kids, right? >> We did. Yep. We left two at home.

They're little babies, but we want to bring them up for the debtree scream here. Introduce these fellas to us.

Their names and ages. >> So, this is Oliver, our oldest. He is 7 years old. And this is Everett, five.

>> All right. >> And our two little ones are Lucy, who is almost three. And then Asher, who's almost one. Nice little grown family.

Yep. >> Very fun. Beautiful. Well done, guys.

Proud of you guys. Congratulations. You paid a price to win and you win.

>> Very well done and a great example today on the on the air. Thank you for being with Thank you. >> All right, it's Zach and McKenna, Oliver and Everett. 68,000 paid off in 2 and 12

years, making 117 to 0 to 150. Lots of

overtime, baby. That was the solution.

But now they're free. So count it down.

Let's hear a debtree scream. Ready? 3 2

1 We're debtree.

[Applause] [Laughter] I love it.

>> You know, um those little guys don't look unhappy. They don't look like they've been deprived. No, >> I think they're in good shape. And but they didn't see their dad a lot for the last couple years. >> And so we do get a lot of questions about work life balance.

>> And uh the truth is there is no balance in life. you're going to concentrate what you concentrate on. Some of you have been concentrating so much on hitting the um submit button after you

filled your cart uh on Amazon and you've

been concentrating so much on going on vacations that you couldn't afford and buying cars you couldn't afford and living a life you couldn't afford that now you're going to have to concentrate on something else called work. And work is what's going to get you out. My grandmother used to say there's a great place to go when you're broke to work.

It works. This work thing. Look at this guy. What a what a stud, man. Pretty incredible. Very well done. This is the

Ramsay Show.

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Our scripture of the day 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come. The old has gone. The new is here. Jordan Peterson

says, "You should be better than you are, but it's not because you're worse than other people. It's because you're not everything you should be." Tracy's in Virginia. Hi, Tracy. How are you?

>> Hello. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I am looking at retiring in about

three years. I currently grow about 130.

I'm estimating low because I gross a little more, but I don't like to work with actual high numbers. Um, so I gross

about 130. I have a about a $10,000 le

debt right now. 3,000 is a loan that my son is paying off because it's his student loan and I told him he had to pay it back. Um 5,000 is from uh

appliances I bought. They're interest free until next year and then 8,000 is

actually on a credit card. Um I'm

looking at whether or not I should and I

have about 12,000 in actual cash. So I'm

trying to decide since I'm close to retirement, is it best for me to

pay off my house? I owe about 360 on it

and the debt and that'll be debtree because the other debts are relatively small and I can pay them off fairly quickly. Or if I should look at uh

supplemental income, I have about 45,000 in uh stocks and mutual funds. I also have IRA and uh two whole life policies.

or if I should um buy a separate buy

another property so that I'll have that as more passive income. I know I'm talking fast. I'm trying to be I'm trying to be respectful of >> Okay, you're you're fine. You're fine, honey. You're doing a good job. So, um real estate is not passive.

>> Okay. >> It's active. I own several hundred

million dollars worth of real estate and it has to be managed. There's nothing passive about real estate. Not even a piece, not even a piece of farmland that you do nothing with except hold the earth together. It's not even passive.

My neighbor called and one of my trees fell on his yard. I ended up having to send somebody over there for that. Not even that's passive. And there's nothing on there but dirt.

>> I can't even get that to be passive. But if you deal with tenants, it's anything but passive. If you deal with water heaters, heat and air, and roofs, it's anything but passive. So, you're going to be actively involved in real estate and you don't have the money to play in the real estate market.

>> Okay? >> You don't have enough money to fool with it. So, >> you have a good income. >> Yeah, you have a good income, but you don't have any money. So, um so let me get this straight. You have 10,000, 3,000, and 8,000. Is that the three debts? >> No, I'm sorry. Um overall, it's about uh

a little more than 10,000. The 8,000 is credit card. Yeah. The 3,000 is >> Your son's supposed to be paying it. No.

>> And then you got the 5,000. >> I'm very He calls me the bill collector.

I make him pay it every month. So he is paying that. And then 3500 is for

appliances. I needed to replace some appliances in my home. >> You said that was five. >> Yeah, I thought you said it was five, too. >> I'm sorry. That is five. I got it written down. I have 3,000 for my son, 8,000 for credit card, 5,000 for the

>> um >> So 16. So 16 clears you.

>> Um, yes. But I the reason why I said three is because I got my little note under here. It started off at five. It's now down to about 3500.

>> Got it. And then you've got 3,000 in cash. >> Cash enough out of your mutual funds and your >> in cash. I have 30,000.

>> Yeah. You need to write a check today and pay off your debt.

>> Okay. >> That's step one. >> Pay that all off. >> That's step one. How old are you?

>> 56. >> And how much is in your IAS and 401ks?

Um, in my IRA I have about 300,000

>> in Yes. >> Okay.

>> Is that in good mutual funds? >> No. No. That's in my That's in my 401k.

I'm sorry. My 401k is 3,000. My IR

>> 300,000.

>> 300,000. Thank you.

>> And you're in That's Is that in mutual funds?

>> Well, it's through my job, so I don't

know. No, it's a 401k. You do know. You

had to select it.

>> You just don't remember.

>> Okay. You need to go find out what that's invested in and make sure it's in good growth stock type mutual funds. We recommend a fourth in growth, a fourth in growth in income, a fourth in aggressive growth, and a fourth in international with good long track records. If you're doing that, you should be earning north of 12% in the last several years. Okay.

>> Okay. And because I I do know that they they gave us like these boxes now that you mentioned it, but I don't know what it was. >> Yeah, I want you to go back and double check all that after you listen to this back. It'll be on the podcast and on YouTube. You can listen to it back. Okay. So, it give you all the details.

So, growth, growth in income, aggressive growth, and international, the fourth in each of those long track records that have over 10% rates of return over the

last decade or so. And you ought to be making well more than that. Okay? So if you're doing that, your 300 without adding adding anything to it will double about every seven years. So you're 56,

at 63 it'll be 600, at 70 it'll be 1.2

million >> if you don't take anything out of it if it just grows. >> I don't take anything. >> I know, but I'm telling you till 70.

Okay. >> Tell us about your whole life policy.

>> Um I have Well, they're for my I got them for my kids. I have two of them.

One for each my son and one for my daughter. Um I want to get one. I just

qualified. I >> What I want you to do is cancel all of them. They're crap.

>> Oh, okay. >> It's the worst financial product on the planet and use that money to build

wealth and leave that to your son and daughter.

>> Okay. >> But this is not a good place to build wealth and dying is not a good way to create an estate.

It doesn't m the the math doesn't work out. >> You're going to have a better rate of return investing that money in the same mutual funds that Dave was just talking about. You're going to have a a higher rate of compounding interest.

>> Yeah. So, >> so I do I do dabble and I do use that

word loosely, dabble in in stock and mutual funds and I have about 45,000 in

that right now. >> Yeah. I I would tell you to sit down with one of our smart investor pros and let's make sure that you're getting 15% of your income going into retirement, cancelling the whole life policies. You can use some of that money to beef up your retirement.

You're debtree because we told you just now, write a check, pay everything off. You've got a good emergency fund of 3 to six months of expenses. You're in good shape there. So now all we've got to do is work towards putting 15% of your income away and getting your house paid off.

>> And so if you'll put 15% of your income away and you're in and your current nest egg is invested well, you're going to be in really really good shape at age 65 and you need to be in a paid for house.

So if you move into 65 with a million dollars in a paid for house on top of a paid for house, you're going to be in great shape and that is what you leave your kiddos. >> And you will that will that's where you'll be if you do all the stuff we just outlined. >> And it's so um it's clean. There's you

know what I'm saying? And I'm I'm listening to to everything she said in their stocks and whole life and should I do real estate and >> interest free on the appliances?

>> Yosh.

>> Please don't do that stuff, y'all.

>> No payments until the year 3039.

>> Yeah. And then we're going to back charge you 38% interest through the whole stinking thing because you didn't send in the check just like we told you to in the form we told you to send it in. >> Yeah. It's guys, it's simple. Just keep clean.

Clean and crisp.

>> Simple is best. >> One thing at a time. >> Yeah. Couple of rules on investing. Um, as we've studied millionaires, they all use the KISS principle. Keep it simple, stupid. >> They really do. And they don't put money in things they don't understand.

>> And they're steady and they're not flashy and they don't care what you think. >> Yeah. >> And um that that you know, these are these are attributes of the typical millionaire. And we've studied 10,000 of them. It's in the book Baby Steps Millionaires. The white paper of the research project is in the back of the book. You can read all the detail and you can also read the conclusions we've drawn from the actual study and from 35 years of sitting at this desk helping people become baby steps millionaires.

>> So, she's right on track. She's going to be just fine. A few little adjustments, a little bit of more confidence >> as she steps out these things and not confidence in whole life and not confidence in fooling around with trading stocks and mutual funds. Let's just get in there and start investing. Let's just be that tortoise.

>> Well, that's where the bulk of her money was. >> Yeah. And stay away from there's no reason for you to do real estate. You're not in a position to. You do not have the cash to do it. Uh your cash is all in 401ks and you don't have access to it, right? That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 246. You'll Never Prosper When You're Tied Down With Payments | October 7, 2025


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| **Video ID** | `p-q1VMc8brE` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-q1VMc8brE) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:04:51 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. George

Camel, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, is my co-host today.

Open Phones at8255225.

[Music] Matthews in Lexington, Kentucky. Hey, Matthew. What's up?

>> Uh, how you doing, sir? Uh, I was told to just get straight to the point. So, um, I lost my job this morning, uh, as a

construction worker. I'm roughly 12 to 14 grand in debt if you count my credit card. Um, I'm on the hunt for a new job

at the moment. I'm just a little lost.

Uh, I was hoping to get a new house by the end of the year and now everything's just kind of been ripped away. So, I was calling to uh kind of see about any advice I can get from you guys. I've been watching for a while. >> Wow.

That's a that's a day that sucks.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah.

>> What happened? How did you get fired?

>> So, I was working in construction and uh

>> Oh, okay. Sorry. Um >> he said it was poor attendance and I've had the job for about 8 months and I've only called in twice. I've never been late. >> Um so I called his boss, the guy,

another foreman that's over him and uh

he said that it was something else, but he doesn't know what it was. So I'm not sure what specifically to do in the situation. Now I'm kind of broke.

What were you uh what what type of work were you doing on the construction site?

>> Uh I was a laborer, so just all the grunt work that they could possibly have.

>> What were you making?

>> So I was promised 27 an hour. I was only

making 22 an hour. Um

>> how long did you work in this place?

Uh roughly seven and a half, eight months. >> Okay. And they never kept their promise

and then fired you and you really don't know why.

>> Yeah.

>> Sounds like wonderful people to be rid of. Um

Wow. But you still got to go get a job like instantaneously, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> I'm guessing you have you have any money in your checking account?

Uh yeah, I've got enough to cover, you know, whatever I have for bills coming up, you know, in the next couple weeks.

>> Okay, good. All right. And you probably got another check coming from them, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, that'll help some. All right. So,

well, I mean, you're right. It's um it's asking a lot to emotionally bounce back in the afternoon from being fired in the morning, but you like you said, you don't have a lot of choices. So, uh, you've got to go get some some work immediately. Um, and so, yeah, I'm going

to go just start visiting construction sites in the area.

>> Well, I also have experience in driving as well. And, uh, the construction industry is just kind of dropping down here a lot compared to >> may have been the actual reason you got fired. Um the uh may have been a layoff

actually, but the um

uh you got a CDL.

>> So I'm partially towards my CDL. I had

uh I was in classes at my other job.

>> What can you do today that involves driving?

>> I can drive a nonCDO vehicle just like everybody else can, but I am one uh

written test away from uh class B CDO.

>> Mhm. And that'll give you a nice raise if you choose to do that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Yeah. Well, if you especially if you could get somebody to hire you this week based on that one written test coming through in the next couple of weeks. Um and you could get started with them just moving stuff around the lot or whatever else you had to do. Yeah, I think that's a that's not it's not a bad option. Um

and you probably would make more than they were going to pay you even if they had paid you what they promised they were going to pay you and all that. So, um, yeah, I I I think the trick here is there's two two level two ways to think about this. The first way is you got to get off of desperation onto a job and don't even care what it is >> as long as it's legal and moral, you know, as long as you're not hurting someone or yourself, right? And so, um, you know, go go get a something.

I don't care.

um, Target, FedEx, um, you know, we're

going to be in Christmas season before you know it. uh you know driving for Amazon. I don't care >> what you land, but land something immediately because if you have if you know you have enough coming in to eat and to keep the lights on and the rent paid, you will interview differently for the next job.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, the first job is just take anything in desperation that is legal and moral and get to where you know you got food to eat. Are you married?

>> I am. Yes. >> Does she work outside the home?

Yeah, she uh she works in the medical field.

>> What does she make?

>> She makes about $15 to $16 an hour.

>> Not much either. Okay.

>> No. >> All right. But you got But you do have enough to eat that way, right? And so not enough for you to sit on the couch permanently, but you don't have to panic between now and next Friday, right?

>> No. No. >> Okay. So, let's let's get out there and scoot around. Now then once you've landed that next thing where you're eating the second stage is you start figuring out okay what do I want to be in 10 years and what is the steps to get

to be one of those and it needs to be something that makes more money.

>> Yes sir. >> And it's not just for the money but what do you want to be? You know like like mom and dad used to ask when you're growing up. What do you want to be when you grow up?

Right. And uh you know what do you got some passion about? What do you got some talent in? And those kinds of things.

I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. It has a great assessment in it. I want you to take that assessment and start planning out your long-term landing place. But your short-term landing place is anybody that will pay you and you can show up having showered and shaved and brushed your teeth and on time.

Oh, why don't we make it 15 minutes early for the heck of it? And um leave 15 minutes late while you're there and make sure that you're the hardest working dude that they've ever seen during the time that you're there.

that changes everything >> and there's so many you know the economy side gigs right now that you can just literally download an app and get started within an hour >> like what >> I mean I did Instacart last December as a test and literally I downloaded the app made my account and I was on the road and I went you know got groceries for people another one is Uber Eats and Door Dash all of those >> if you showed up at somebody's door with Instagram they had to be freaking Now, >> I mean, I made sure to not actually I left it at the doorstep, but on their camera.

>> The best part was I >> They would have thought they would have thought I didn't pay you. >> Well, I embarrassingly I went to my I didn't realize like this is an an awful uh a street. I I recognized it was my neighbor's house. And I'm like, they're probably looking at the camera going, "Is that George, my neighbor, delivering groceries?

What's going on?" >> That's so funny. >> But I thought I wanted >> You just wanted to see how it worked. >> I wanted to practice what I preached. I tell people, go get these side jobs.

And for a week, I did it in December. And I calculated it. It was about 25 to 30 bucks an hour.

>> We uh we kept it from you.

>> Completely ragged on you for a whole year. >> Now you know why I just shared it.

>> And now I Instagram or Instacart George.

>> Tragedy plus time equals comedy. So I needed to wait long enough to where it was funny. Didn't look desperate. But man, it was I'll tell you, it's a grind out there, Dave, getting people's groceries. I was in the bulk bins at 9:00 p.m. just getting in one pound of rice, measuring it out, going, "This is this is I do I remember the sacrifice. I don't want to relive this again." Literally rice and beans out there. >> And you're doing it for for the show.

>> I thought maybe I can make content out of it, but it was too stressful to even get my phone out and film. I was hustling. >> You look stressed. >> I did. >> A year later. >> I'm still stressed. I'm sweating reliving this. >> So, shout out to everyone sacrificing on their second and third and fourth side hustles.

[Music]

Finally, mortgage rates have dropped.

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Leah is in Banganger, Maine. Hi Leah.

How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm great. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm calling seeking advice on how to

best approach home ownership. Um, my husband and I took your financial peace course back when we were engaged. We currently use the Every Dollar app for our budgeting, which has been incredibly helpful. So, thank you for that. And now we are looking at home ownership and trying to figure out how to make that happen. Currently, we do rent for $1,000

a month. And it's really an ideal situation, but we have one baby and we

are hoping to expand our family and so home ownership is ultimately our goal.

>> Good. >> Um, my husband is the only one working.

I'm home full-time. >> Mhm. >> And so that's kind of where the challenge has come in. He brings home roughly $3,000 a month and there is

potential for that to grow over time.

He's kind of new still to the company, so he's starting out and learning the job. But with all that being said, he is

working on picking up some extra hours on his days off. He works four 10-hour days. And so on his two days off, he's looking at picking up some extra work because currently our monthly expenses

do exceed our monthly income by a couple of hundred.

And so that's the challenge. We do have

good savings. We have about 58,000 saved. We have about 16,000 for an

emergency fund. We have no debt and he

does contribute to his 401k, but we just

aren't really sure how to move towards >> How have you done all that on $3,000 a month? >> Um, it started way way before then. Um, I've just always been a diligent saver.

So, from the time I started working, most of my money just went right into savings. >> And then when we got married, >> when you had a baby, you came home. I see. Okay. All right.

>> So, what happens long-term to get his income up to double what it is now?

>> Um, so he does have to take some certifications. He's a technician. Um, so he needs to take classes to get certified as a master tech. That's one way that he'll increase his pay. And then I think also just experience. As he becomes more efficient, he'll be able to work faster because he gets paid by the job and not by the hour or salary.

What's he working? >> So they're What? Uh, vehicles. Oh, he's a Honda tech. >> Okay, good.

>> Yeah, I want to a Honda tech ought to be making more than $36,000 a year. So, he must have just gotten started. And so, he's got Yep. >> Yeah. He's got he's going to have to go to all the classes as fast as he can take them and move up as fast as he can move up uh to get Charles's income up because what you're describing is not a situation where you buy a house. Mhm.

>> Math. The math doesn't work for you, does it?

>> No. And that's what we thought. We were getting advice from other people saying, "Just buy a house. You'll figure it out." The >> Who's going to pay for it? The house fairy.

>> I wish. >> Yeah. I mean, there's not one. Unless you all got them in Maine. We don't have them in Tennessee. You know, >> I haven't found. >> I mean, you have a deficit right now and your rent is only a,000 bucks a month.

>> Yeah. >> And so, this is only a house. It'll all work out. What are you, a congressman?

Who says that? >> Yeah. How are you covering the difference now? Are you guys dipping into your savings? >> Yeah. No, he's working extra.

>> He's taking side hustles. >> Um, he's picking up some extra shifts to

a family friend who's a contractor.

Yeah. >> Well, here's what I want. I I want a career path that leads us to more income, which allows us to buy a home.

>> Okay. >> And that's what answers your question. >> That makes sense. >> That's what answers your question.

>> Yes. So, the the hard truth is that home ownership is not going to happen in the next 6 or 12 months.

>> No, >> it's going to need to get your income up and maybe a bigger down payment and maybe not the house you really wanted.

>> Yeah. You got 58,000 for the down payment, right?

>> Yeah. That's everything we have saved.

>> Yeah. And you're debtree. Well, thank God you're living on a detailed plan because it's allowing you to make it on almost nothing um while you're able to stay at home with the child, which is great. But basically what we've said is we put house on hold while his career develops and then the math will allow us to buy a house. And by the way that's kind of normal unless you know unless you grew up in a generation where when you pushed a button in your hand everything happens automatically. Oh wait yeah you did. Um

so yeah it it doesn't work that way.

It's going to take some time. It's a process and it's a it's got to cook a while. >> Yeah. Well right now you can just doom scroll on Zillow and look at all the things you can't afford. Back in your day, Dave, not to aid you, but the internet didn't exist to go look at every house that's available that you can't have. >> No, we had to go to open houses.

>> Oh. >> And then we would get house fever that way. We had to do it the oldfashioned way. But house fever show up.

>> House fever is highly contagious and it has been among us for several decades.

So, >> just got easier with the digital age.

>> Yeah, you can um Yeah. Well, a lot of addictions are have advanced themselves.

But anyway, yeah, just you take your time, hun. You're going to be okay. You're going to get there. But it the two things do work together and it sounds like you really have a wonderful handle on where you are. Congratulations. Hunter is in New York.

Hi Hunter. How are you?

>> Hi guys. How you doing?

>> Good man. How can we help? >> Taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um yeah, so I'm I'm not too financially

savvy. Um I graduated college in May, so

I just got my first job. Hopefully a long-term career career job. I really like it. What are you doing? How much do you make?

>> I'm uh I'm making 60,000 a year uh before taxes. >> Way to go. What kind of job is this?

>> I'm in It's a sales role. I'm in medical device sales. >> Oh, so you're just starting. Okay, cool.

What's your degree in? >> Yeah, just starting uh business management. >> Good for you. Medical device sales. I know a lot of folk making two bills with it. >> Not their first year. >> That's uh that's why I really I really looked into it. I had to work uh pretty hard to get the job because they don't really hire out of college too much.

>> Yeah. So, you're gonna have to get with it. And really, the 60 is just your first year. You you probably truthfully should double that in almost a year.

>> Really? >> Yeah. If you get with it, assuming I don't know what their product line is or who it is you're talking to or working for, but >> that that's the thing. So, what's your question, sir? You said you're not financially savvy. How can we help you?

>> Yeah. So, I I was just curious what I could be doing um to set some money aside, invest it properly to set myself up for the future. I mean, I have a Roth 401k with my company. Um >> are you are you debt free?

>> Yes. Yes. No debt. >> No student loan debt?

>> No, I athletic scholarship.

>> Good. No car debt.

>> No car debt. >> Good. >> No credit card debt, anything. >> Good for you.

I >> think you're more financially savvy than you think, my friend. Way to go. Yeah, >> just setting yourself up like that is a big win. >> Would you just please stay that way?

If you stay that way, you'll always have some money instead of giving it all to the bank. So, >> because your co-workers are probably going to be driving nicer cars than you and buying houses before you are, and that's going to be tempting. So, don't let that stop you from living on less than you make. Do you have an emergency fund?

>> Yeah.

>> Good. Way to go. So, let's keep building that up a little bit to three to six months of expenses. Are you renting on your own right now or do you got roommates? What's the situation? >> I'm uh I'm still living living with my parents at home. >> Okay. Maybe the next step might be getting your own place.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, definitely. >> And then on top of that, once you got that emergency fund, >> kind of another question I have.

>> When to move out? >> I mean, right now, yeah, when to move out. Like right now, I'm uh living rentree, saving money on food, on all that stuff. Um >> how long you been out of school? I have my own place. >> I got out and then Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I I I don't want you

there next May.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, that that's your max.

>> So, you decide when and how, but um start start planning your exit and uh time time to sprout the wings and fly be the eagle that leaves the nest. And of course, by then we'll see what your income trajectory is and that's going to help you as well. Yeah, your Roth IRA is fine. And if you want to start saving even more than that over just in your savings account, build up that emergency fund really thick. That was not a bad idea either. Uh the Roth 401k it works.

Not a bad idea. I'll send you a graduation gift, the copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover. And it will walk you through in detail exactly what to do next and next and next and next all the way through. It will take you up through what we call the baby steps here.

And we're going to keep you out of debt into investing. And that's going to be your shortest route moving into wealth. And uh you got a great career field, a lot of upside there. Uh, you're just getting started.

You're asking the right questions. Keep asking lots of questions. Keep working like a crazy man. Hang on.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

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Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Kylie.

How are you?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Okay. I'm seeking wisdom on how to help um my dad. I don't know what to do. And so I figured I'd call you and maybe you could guide me in the right direction.

My dad is 83, coming up on 83. He has social security. Um he has no retirement, but according to our calculations, um he should have a lot more in the bank than he does. And with a recent diagnosis of onset dementia, we

um are finding that we can't find where his money has gone and we don't know how

to either find it or figure out if he's being scammed or um how to make what he

has left stretch.

>> Wow. So, how much do you think is missing?

>> Okay. Um, we think that there's somewhere between $150 to $175,000

missing.

>> Wow. That's from social security payments that have disappeared.

>> No, he had investments.

>> Well, he sold his house for $400,000 in

2021. He bought himself a $14,000 truck.

He moved across country and bought a $195,000 house. So

roughly we thought he had around 200,000. He's getting $1,500 a month on social security. He told us he put his money that he had remaining left over into two different banks and opened up a

couple checking and savings accounts in those banks. Um but recently we started

getting involved because his electricity would get cut off. He couldn't remember how to pay his electricity bill. We heard that he was paying people money over the phone that he did not have an account with. Like people would just call and say, "Hey, you owe us $500 for a late fee." And he would just pay it.

Um, and then he can't answer simple

questions like, "Who's his cell phone carrier? Who does who does he owe bills to so he can help him straighten it out?" He doesn't know.

>> He doesn't know who the two banks are.

>> He does not. He he thinks he knows where they are, but his stories don't aren't they are not straight. Like he he will tell us that he has an account with US Bank, but then he'll tell us he closed it, but then he tells us it's open, and then he knows he has Wells Fargo. He goes to Wells Fargo every day, but then he can't keep straight.

>> I don't have any money. >> Yeah. Is there a power of attorney been assigned? >> Not yet. No, sir.

>> Uh that needs to happen yesterday. I'm not even sure it'll work now. doesn't sound like he's competent now, but I don't know. Um, >> that means you're taking over financial powers to handle his accounts.

>> Somebody needs to, >> okay, >> desperately. >> Okay. >> I mean, he's not even sure what day it is and what cell phone carrier and that kind of stuff. He does not need to be handling his money. Okay. Then, how do we find a lost 175,000? I really don't

know is the answer. Do you have any kind of a paper trail or an electronic trail of any kind?

We are digging through stacks of of

bank notices that we have found um in

his house. >> Yeah. >> Have you checked his email? >> Find it there.

>> I have not yet. That's a great idea.

>> I'd be going through everything. Digital, physical, >> calling banks. Looking for debit cards attached to those banks.

>> Okay. >> I mean, it's possible. It's possible he's been scammed out of it. It's also possible it's sitting over there in US Bank, but you don't have any access to it without a power of attorney.

>> Okay? >> You can't walk over there and ask him if I have an account either. They won't let you. It's against federal privacy laws.

>> Okay? >> So, I mean, but you if you got a power of attorney, you can go on his behalf and do it. And y'all need to do that yesterday.

>> Okay? >> Like 6 months ago yesterday. Um, but go do it today. Do not let this I mean 48 hours, kid, right now. Go get it done.

And um so then you can start to inquire with these people because otherwise they're going just going to shut you down. >> I mean just like if you called up and ask where George bank, they're not going to tell you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So but if you go here's the power of attorney's copy of the power of attorney. He's 82. He's got onset and I'm trying to find some money that's lost. Do you what do you have an account there? Okay. What's the balance? What's the account number? And then you just start tracking everything down that you can. If you reach a complete dead end on

all stacks of paper and all email and

text and anything else you can get a hold of, if everything has run to ground and you still haven't found it, you could go to our local uh our endorsed

local provider for taxes, our tax ELP.

They probably can make you a re a recommendation of a uh a forensic

accountant. And a forensic accountant is someone who knows how to dig through those things and try to find a trail maybe that you didn't see and trace back

through. Um, if he's been scammed, I don't know where

you'll be, but in the meantime, y'all are taking care of him anyway. So, >> I would think of every professional he's interacted with, CPAs, accountants, tax pros, real estate. I mean, if there was a real estate transaction, that money was wired somewhere. And maybe you can go to the title company that handled the wiring and figure out where it went and that might give you some clues at least.

>> Yeah. Which which account did that go into? And then if you find that account, you can go from there. Where did it go from that account on this transferred every account of every touch point do a full audit on it.

And I want to see a full list of every transaction for the last seven months or since he sold the house. And what we're trying to do is follow that 175 or that 150 around that extra equity around because we do know he bought two things, but he should have somewhere around 150 left, give or take. And yeah, find out where it went. That's a good thing, George.

Go to the closing and see where that money went and then do an audit there. Find out where it went from there. Then find out where it went from there.

You're going to have to have power of attorney to do all that though. Um, and you're just going to have to run it to ground. The big thing is is everybody is no longer in denial. We have a power of attorney and he is shut down and he's not allowed to do any more transactions at all.

He does no access to any accounts because people are calling him up and he's giving people 500 bucks and then y'all are having to put 500 bucks over there to feed him. So, they're stealing money from you is who they're stealing money from.

and he doesn't want you to. You don't want to admit that your dad is finally at that stage, but here we are. The longer you stay in denial, the more checks are going to be written to bad people. And so, you guys have really got to shut this down hardcore fast just because he's getting screwed over if he hadn't already lost 150 grand.

>> Yeah. I feel like we're getting more and more calls of people getting scammed out of hundreds of thousands of dollars because they're just, you know, they pray on the elderly. >> Exactly. >> They pray on people who, you know, who mentally can't handle this and don't know if it's a scam. Colin in Jacksonville, Florida. Hey Colin, what's up?

>> Hey Dave and George. Thanks uh first and foremost for everything you guys do. Um really helpful content. Thank you.

>> But to be direct and yeah, of course. Um my question is this. My wife and I I'm almost certain we're on baby step seven.

We're totally debtree including the mortgage. And to your guys' point, the peace of mind uh is amazing with that.

Um but with that being said, we're in a two bed, one bath currently. It's myself, my wife, and a year and a half old daughter. I also work from home as well. Uh so things are starting to feel a little cramped. And although need is a pretty strong word, I do think that we're inching toward a need for additional space. And so I'm I'm kind of

battling or or going through the pros and cons of having another mortgage and upgrading the space versus kind of remaining cramped and having that uh piece every month of not having. What do >> you guys make? What do you make? Uh >> we we make about uh 225 as a household.

>> So how much can you bank a year?

Um, right now we're we're investing in 15% and and saving about six grand a month.

>> Okay. All right. And so what's your current home worth?

>> It's worth 250. I I think >> What's the target What's the target home? >> How much is the target home? >> Probably 500.

>> 500. >> 500. So you need 250. >> 500K.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, I mean, there's two ways to do it. One is take out a small mortgage.

Um, and two is, uh, we'll move in 2 and 1/2 years and we're going to save $100,000 a year because we don't borrow money anymore. That would be Sharon's my only option cuz we don't borrow money for anything ever.

[Music]

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Mark in England. We are retired, mortgage free, and financially stable with no debt except our credit cards. We buy what we need on a credit card that gives us points, which we use to pay for clothes, food, etc.

We then take that credit card debt and put it onto a long-term interest free credit card for a period of 12 to 34 months, only paying the minimum balance each month. At the same time as the start of the 0% deal, we put an equal amount into a savings account that pays us 7% interest. At the end of the 0% term, we pay it off from the savings and then keep the interest earned to pay for travel or a large cash purchase. We've been doing this for 10 years with no interest incurred.

Cash back to us has been six grand plus 8 grand earned in interest from the savings.

>> Cuz it's exhausting. Number one, >> this is how you lost the Revolutionary War right here.

>> Zinger. >> Oh my god. >> Take that red coats. >> Unbelievable.

The mental calories needed has got to be worth something. Your time is worth something. >> And here's what's ridiculous. We don't we do not know the dollar amounts, >> but what it took to get >> if you took I mean, what could you what

could we talk about? 50,000 bucks and you run it through all of those ringers.

When you get done, you got enough money to buy a biscuit.

I mean, there's no money involved here.

This is a It's like a math riddle for a sixth grader and you fell for every bit

of it. Um I think you need a hobby.

Really? This is like exhausting. So, uh,

the problem with all this is is you have set up a a house of mirrors, a house of traps, and you have figured out how to No, you

know, I'm trying to remember what what's the thing where the kid where the uh people um the the ninja thing where they go through all the um American Ninja Warrior. Yeah, like you're an American Ninja or the English ninja warrior >> for credit cards. So, you've got this full obstacle course laid out and you

know how to do it, but if you miss one handhold, you're in the water. If you if

you jump just wrong, you're going to turn your ankle and be on your head. And so, that's exactly what this is like a it's like an obstacle course. It's like you did a treasure hunt with an obstacle course in your backyard and you're 12 years old. Um, no. Uh, and it's not worth the money if you actually add up the actual dollars that you're benefiting from all these girrations.

It's so small. It's it's almost makes you want to giggle. Like really, if you just gone and done like work or something while you spend all this money, I mean, all this calories on on

this chasing your tail all over the place and trying to somehow beat the credit card company, you'd actually have some money. Um, so no, no, no. Uh, and

and also, Mark, let me tell you this. We have not done a study in uh the UK, but

we have done the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America.

We studied 10,167 of them. 89% of them,

nine out of 10, are first generation rich, meaning they started with nothing and they became millionaires. The number

of those self-made millionaires starting

from nothing that became a millionaire

working a system that remotely looks like yours is precisely zero out of 10,167.

Not one said they played the airline mile game,

the high yield savings versus repay old

credit card and 30 days out and back and forth girration game. And that's how I made my million dollars. Dave, not one.

Not uno, not one.

None.

Zero proof text that your system causes

wealth building. Zero. There's zero humans we have found that your system made rich. Zero. None. Was that unclear?

>> I think that's as clear as mud right there, Dave. Well, the key is he the fallacy is that he wouldn't be financially stable without this. You've become financially stable in spite of the credit card game. You decided that we're not going to have a mortgage anymore.

Well, why would you do that when you can make a spread on that? I mean, you can, you know, reverse engineer this logic and just stay in debt the rest of your life if you think you can outsmart it. Uh, but clearly you value a debt-free life and I think this credit card game is costing you more than you think. And here's a good test for one year.

Use your own money and see if you don't save more than you have doing this credit card churning arbitrage. >> Well, here it is. The numbers actually on here. I got tired before the end of the email, but it's on here.

Cash back to us has been $6,000 uh plus interest earned from the plus 8,000 from the interest earned.

Oh my god. >> Yeah, that's over a 10-year period.

>> You made $1,400 a year doing this? It's worse than I thought.

$1,400.

I mean, dude, how hard is it to make

$1,400 in England?

you really have done taken a lot of risk and played with a lot of bear traps hoping not to get your arm ripped off by a bear trap in order to make 1,400 a

year.

And and here's the other thing, George.

A guy that writes us an email that says this, the chances of him not doing it anymore or zero. He's going to keep doing it. >> Yeah. He just wanted to, I guess, brag about how amazing >> or want to be the subject of the latest Ramsay meme.

I don't know. But um uh that it's a bad choice, dude. But the uh uh yeah, part of the entertainment value of this show is uh you watch other people do something so stupid that you're entertained by it. And um that that's sometimes why people watch this show or listen to the show.

Sometimes they do it to learn from what we're teaching here. And then other times it's just human beings are entertaining and it's >> entertainment value. >> I think you just fell in the second bucket. All right.

Hey Daniel, how are you?

Hey Dave, how are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, um, me and my wife are currently on baby step two and we're strongly considering selling our car. Now, the thing is, uh, we have one unreliable car, and this car is, uh, kind of our,

you know, put the kid in the car, make sure it's safe. Um, yeah, we're just wondering if, uh, we should sell it and maybe even potentially have my stay-at-home wife go work part time.

Okay. What do you make, sir?

>> I make about 144,000.

>> Okay. And how much do you own the good car?

>> Uh 29,000.

>> Okay. All right. And the the car that's

not reliable is worth what?

>> I'd say maybe a,000 bucks.

>> Uhhuh. Okay. So, probably somewhere between there is a reliable car, isn't there?

>> Yeah.

What could you sell the good one for?

You owe 29 on it. >> Um, I owe 29 on it. We could probably sell it for around um 30 31 32.

>> Okay. And you don't you have any money saved at all?

>> Um, so we have the emergency fund saved, >> the one the $1,000 starter emergency fund. >> That's correct. >> Okay, good. And what else?

>> Um, well, that's about it. And then the rest we're just paying off debt right now. >> Good for you. Okay. So, you have a $29,000 car debt. What other debt do you have? >> Uh just student loans. We have zero credit card debt. The student loans equate to about uh 70ish

uh 75.

>> Okay. All right. And so you got $100,000 in debt. You make 100,000.

>> Yeah. >> And you live in New York City.

>> Yeah. Just uh just very close. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. Um, expensive area

though.

>> Yeah. So, we're actually lucky because our parents own a house and uh we're actually renting with them. Um, so we're

we're not paying as much as we as the normal person would pay here. >> Okay. That's good news. Okay. Well, here's the thing. If you guys can get out of debt and keep the car within two years, I'd be okay with you keeping it.

I don't think you can. I think that'd be too tough.

That'd be $50,000 a year on debt and somebody's going to be making some more money. You or her one. What could she make working part-time?

>> So, she has an English degree and she before she became a stay-at-home mom, uh she was an English teacher. >> Yeah. Why does she do tutoring for 45 bucks an hour?

>> We we were we were thinking about that as well. >> Yeah. That's not even a part-time job. You're just doing that from home. I mean, she can tutor 45 bucks an hour and work 10 hours a week and all of a sudden now we got some serious money coming in.

That's um yeah, I'm going to do something like that for sure. And then you pick up what you can pick up and then if you can keep the car, fine. But I'm probably going to get rid of it and and get me about a $10,000 paid for car.

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. George Camel, number one best-selling author and uh Ramsay personality is my co-host today. Rex is in Los Angeles. Hi, Rex.

How are you?

>> I'm good, thanks.

>> All right. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Uh, so we're not on the steps yet.

We've just, my wife and I just started reading you and listening to your stuff.

We've got a bunch of debt, a lot of credit card debt, some student loans we took over for my daughter. Um, other stuff, a car loan, mortgage. We've also got a lot of uh money and investments.

And if we're going to do this, should we just take that money and the investments and pay that stuff off or should we do the work to to pay that down out of my

salary?

>> Is that taking an easy way out to just pay it off? That's the gist of the question. >> Yeah, it's a good question. It's a fair question. Um, how much debt do you have not counting your home?

>> Uh, including the car loans, everything

167,000. Mhm. And how much in the brokerage account?

>> Uh 844.

>> None of that is retirement.

>> No, we have an additional 401k that's about 85,000.

>> Okay. What was this account for?

uh the brokerage account for half of it was uh was when my dad died, we got an

inheritance and the other half is just investment sort of just making money for retirement. >> Mhm. Okay, good. Except it's not in a retirement account.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. And what do you make a year?

>> About 175.

>> Good for you. And what do you owe on your home?

Uh 776.

>> Okay. All right. Well, Rex, the um

the the thing that we teach and you guys have to decide as a couple if you're

going to buy into that in order for the answer to your question to make sense.

Okay. The thing that we teach and believe and we've proven to be true over 30 years of doing this is that when someone can get out of debt and stay out of debt and live on a detailed plan that the both spouses are in agreement to where the money's going and you've done a great job saving money.

>> I mean, you're millionaires. You've done a great job saving money.

>> We got lucky on some of it.

>> Yeah, maybe. But I mean, you some some of it was an inheritance, but overall, I mean, you've not done you've not done uh horrible or anything like that. I mean, you've done a good job. So, now you got to ask yourself the question of what is the shortest distance between where I am

with money and where I want to be? And

we have found that the people that build the most wealth are those that get out of debt, stay out of debt, and live with a plan. Okay? Because when you don't have any payments, you're, you know, all your money is not going to stupid card loans and so forth. You can do stuff with it. Now, if you can do that and

commit to that and you're both in agreement to that and you get out the Every Dollar app or something like that and you say, "Okay, this is our plan and uh we're not going to buy anything else ever on debt

because we believe the shortest distance between where we are in wealth is no debt." And so once we pay this debt off, we will never be in debt again

ever for any reason. Not a big enough emergency, not a big enough need, not a big enough I got car fever, nothing.

Unless I pay cash for it, I'm not doing it. If you're willing and able both of you, to commit to that, then yeah, writing a check and paying it all off is not cheating. The problem is if you don't have that level of commitment like this pinky square spitshake contract, right, >> that we're never doing it again,

you'll do it again. And next time you won't have any savings because you will have paid off all your other mistakes with the savings.

>> And I don't want you going I don't want you to not change your habits. So, if your habits are permanently changing, you know, you can make a lot of money doing this, but if they're not permanently changing, it would be a vast mistake cuz you'll res, you know, the the recidivism rate is crazy on this stuff. >> Yeah. I mean, honestly, we've already done this with the credit cards. The problem is we didn't get rid of the credit card, so we just racked them back up again. >> Tada.

I rest my case, counselor. Yes.

>> Yeah. So, yeah. So, that sort of leans toward try to pay it off, >> you know. Well, or or you know, you've for your sake, it doesn't matter to George and me, but for your sake, you two >> adults have to become convinced that we're never going back.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And there's going to be pain either way. To watch that money leave that brokerage account is going to be painful. To sacrifice for two, three years is going to be painful to pay it off. >> Yeah. And the fact that you did this thing with the credit cards tells you I you know maybe um maybe we get on a

strict budget and we aggressively attack the debt and pretend like the brokerage account is not there for 5 months or 6 months and let's prove it to ourselves that we're through.

>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

>> How old are you?

>> Uh 53.

>> Okay. Well, it's time.

>> And and you picked up your daughter's student loans that she took out in her name or what? Yeah. When she got married, uh, we Yeah. We just sort of just took those over for for them.

>> Yeah. Okay. Well, I I would, you know, I

either way I'm going to be out of debt very very quickly with $175,000 income.

But, um, by quickly I mean a matter of months. And so, um, you know, but but

you guys have to become convinced. Um, you don't have to be in pain

to never go back. You just have to be committed to never go back. It's not

necessary that um I've got a friend who

was a a heroin addict and he went

through rehab and it changed his life and he met God and him and Jesus are best friends and man, he don't he stays away from but his kids don't have to go through that to learn the lessons that he's learned. They can observe someone else and go, I don't want to do what my dad did. And the dad can look at his kids and go, I don't want you doing what I did. You know, that's and so you don't have to go through pain to learn.

It's not necessary.

have to go down the gauntlet and be hit with straps and whips and or whatever to to prove and no, you don't. That's masochistic. We don't need to do that.

But uh but you do have to be committed to never going back because otherwise it's it's pointless. Yeah, >> you're going to be and you're going to end up in worse condition. >> If you guys agree, we're going to cut up the cards and close all these accounts.

We're going to freeze our credit so we it's much harder to go back into debt.

Then I would say, "All right, let's use these funds." You know, you might pay some capital gains taxes on on the growth, but you're going to clear the decks and be in a different place by Christmas. And now you can you freed up all those payments to now invest and give more and, you know, live life with a little more freedom and peace. So I think begin to start working down that mortgage at that point, you know, and you need to start putting your ex excess savings when you get to baby step four in a retirement account in a Roth, not in just a brokerage account.

The amount of money you're losing there in taxes is incredible. So >> yeah, that brokerage account is for you've maxed out all retirement options and we have nowhere else to go but non-retirement investing, >> right? But you he's not got that problem with this income. So, no, you you can you can get there.

Temporarily stop all investing, all saving, and for 6 months, we're going to go at this thing hard. We're going to open up an Every Dollar app. Both me and mom are going to get on it. We're going to get the credit cards out, have a plastic surgery party, light a candle.

Uh we're done. We're not doing this anymore. And uh we're 53 years old. We

make too much money, be this stinking broke, and have I'm sitting here with car payments, and I make 175 grand.

That's just God. That's got to be disgusting. So get disgusted

in a reasonable way and permanently change your behavior and then you got no problems. [Music]

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[Music]

top questions people have about wills.

How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? If your estate is worth less than 1 million, getting a will online is probably a great option for you. By the way, matter of fact, if your estate's worth less than 10 million, it's probably enough. You don't have any need for trusts much until you get up above that, unless you've got a special needs or something like that. Number two, most often question, what what do I need to start my will online? Uh making a will

online or not involves a couple of decisions. Who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your kids? And who do you want to make decisions for you if you're incapacitated?

Is an online will legally valid? Of course. By the way, wills are statep specific? The uh laws that dictate

estates are not federal law. They are state law. And so when you move, you need a new will because your state may have different laws than the old state where you lived. And so different levels, different kinds of notary, different numbers of witnesses, different things you can do or can't do in a will, all that kind of stuff. So why would I want an online will versus a traditional one? Less expensive, more convenient, takes about 20 minutes to set up. If you go to Mama Bear Legal Forums, go to ramseysolutions.com/willsquiz,

you can find out if an online will is right for you and we'll work you through the whole process. Jamie's in New York, New Jersey. Hi Jamie. What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going Dave? Uh, pleasure to speak with you. >> You, too. How can we help?

>> I'll try to be as brief as possible. I have a job. Um, on paper it looks like

the the dream job. I work for a large pharmaceutical bioharmaceutical company here in New Jersey. one of the top uh private pharmaceutical companies. Uh I make good money. I make $46 an hour.

There's unlimited overtime, pension, 401k.

But when I started, we have a union here and it's a big campus. So it's a, you know, pretty large facilities on site.

And because it's a union, I had to ended up going to a department that I really didn't have a lot of experience in because I was low man on the seniority totem fold. So I ended up in a power in a place where I don't really have a lot of experience dealing with boilers and components um servicing different components that go to the boilers uh systems. And from day one my manager

he never uh took any initiative to make sure that I get I got fully trained up pairing me with other um team members.

Basically we I have no manager. All he does is come in in the morning and ask everybody if they want overtime and he goes away. And I've tried to uh reach

out to a lot of my co-workers, a lot of the older senior guys who've been here for years, but the environment is so toxic. I'm the only minority on the team. And I feel like since I've been here for almost two years now, I can tell that they are purposely excluding me from all of the the serious jobs. The jobs that I do that they leave to me that nobody else wants to do is something that I can do in my sleep, you know. And um I can

actually sleep at work. The job is I have like I said everything on paper is good. They have a building here with a couch on the third floor. A lot of times I'm in that building on the third floor sleeping. Uh I'm in different buildings uh looking at the computer like I like I actually have time to wait to meime your

soul is rotting.

>> Yes sir. >> Yeah. >> That's an expensive soul tax.

>> Yeah. So are have you been looking for something new?

>> Yes sir. I have an interview tomorrow for another large pharmaceutical company here in New Jersey and I know what I don't want and um I guess I I really answer my own question, but I know you deal with this type of thing on a daily basis. So, I really wanted to get an expert like your like you your opinion because I know it holds a lot more weight than probably even my own opinion on this topic. Very few very few people are actually happy doing nothing or being underutilized.

Most people their their spirit, your

your uh relationships, everything is invigorated by reaching for the stars. We are designed by our

creator to create and be productive.

And when we're not doing that, it is a soul tax. It takes attacks on your soul.

And so that's what you're discovering.

And so this idea that if I got paid for doing nothing and sitting around doing nothing is somehow a wonderful thing.

It's not really wonderful at all. It's really horrible.

>> I agree. And >> and so I agree with you that Yeah. But I I don't think you have to, >> you know, you don't have to run out the door. They're not burning the building down. There nobody in danger. There's they're not uh being mean to you. Um it

could be racial. It could just be that they're just being union jerks, you know, and I don't care. It doesn't matter to me which one it is. I'm still getting out of there.

>> I think it's a little bit of both. I remember one of my >> coworkers. I'd say I'd say you're probably right. >> That's probably true. >> He made a remark about knuckle draggers.

I hope they hire some more techs. They keep hiring these knuckle draggers.

>> Yeah, but that's not a racial thing. That's just That's just a caveman.

Knuckle drager is just a dumb person that doesn't know anything. It's just a caveman. So, um, you know, but I, you

know, either way, it doesn't matter. You, you've solved the problem. The ri the riddle is I got to go. But what I don't have to do is go running out the door and make $20 an hour while I'm making 46 right now. So, I'm going to sit here for a minute, no pun intended,

and uh, look for a job, right? Instead of sleeping on the couch, I'm gonna be looking for a job.

>> Right. That's what I've been doing today, the last couple weeks. Every day, I update my search. Yes. And and I you know I don't know if you fell if you fell backward into being a boiler guy or if that was what you intended to do.

>> What is it you really want to be 10 years from now?

>> If you could do anything you wanted to do, what would you do?

>> Validation equipment validation and qualification. >> Okay. So you you enjoy engineer >> you enjoy and you're good at working with your hands and you can in your mind you can see how things work and how they're put together.

>> Yes, sir. >> Very good. I like it. Well, Ken Coleman would like what you're saying. Mike Row would like what you're saying. I think you can make a lot of money, >> but you're not gonna make a lot of money if you're dragging your knuckles. Right.

>> Exactly. >> And so, and you're not going to have you're not going to come home energized.

See, I come home from doing this. Uh I I'll do about five and a half hours on the microphone today. Different podcasts and different things I've got to do inside the building today. And uh I'm 65 freaking years old and I come home energized because I'm doing stuff that matters, stuff that I care about and I'm pushing the edge.

I'm having to use every every ounce of everything that I am to make sure I help you guys, give you the right answers, all that kind of crap. And so yeah, hang on. We'll send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

>> Yeah. >> It's just out of reach. It's funny because it's almost worse when you're paid well to do it because you go, "Well, I'm an idiot to leave this." >> No, you're an idiot to stay because if you're not treated well, you're undervalued, you're bored, there's no growth plan. Like Dave said, eventually your soul's going to pay the price for it.

And so, uh, we believe that you can do the work you're wired to do and get paid well to do it. And naturally, you're going to grow in that area because they're going to see your enthusiasm and your talent, your excellence. So, we're rooting for you, man, to get to that next thing. It's a pretty crazy world when you just show up and care and work hard all day long and that makes you stand out.

You don't even have to be that good. You just got to care, have brushed your teeth, and work hard all day long. >> Just showing up in good hygiene goes a long way.

>> That's what I've done at least. >> It's the world. Well, it's working for you. Your hair is great. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> But the uh uh >> I wanted to say I wish I could say the same, BUT IT WAS TOO SOON. TOO SOON. OH,

all the hair jokes go all the way around the horn before they stop. Huh. Okay, I like it. Seriously though, the the

striving for excellence, the striving to

do to reach a level you've never reached before is what gives life to you.

>> And so, anytime someone's just sitting

and listen, things are either growing or they're dying. There's no in between.

And so this job, Jamie, that you got is going to get worse. It's not going to get better. It's dying. It's going off the cliff, right?

>> They made it clear. >> Yeah. It's pretty ridiculous what he's describing. And I don't think he's being weird.

I think he's probably got a pretty clear pretty clear action of what's going on there. So, yeah, I'm, you know, I set a goal that within a within 6 months to a year, I've gotten a better job making $52 doing something where the people respect me, I respect them, and we have to work really, really hard while we're there.

Yikes. >> Jeez, >> that scares me. That's what's happening in pharmaceutical companies in America.

>> Well, this apparently the maintenance team in the building at the far he's working on the boy >> union workers >> still. It's just the whole thing is Wow.

[Music]

Turning down.

[Music]

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[Music]

in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt free stage. Christopher and Britney are with us. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Well, Dave, >> welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> We're from Sacramento, California.

>> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. Yeah.

>> And how much debt have you guys paid off? We >> paid off about 412,000.

>> All right. How long did that take?

>> 28 months.

>> 28. >> All right. Very good. And your range of income during that two and a half years?

>> So, we started at 215,000. We went up to

350,000 and now we've gone back down to

250. So, I can be part-time and stay at home with our newest baby. >> Love it. What do y'all do for a living?

>> I do um plumbing. So, I work for a general contractor. Mhm. >> plumbing contractor. I did HVAC too for about 20 years. >> Wow. Cool. >> Yeah. >> And I'm a nurse, a nurse educator and train new nurses. >> Gotcha. What kind of debt was the 412,000?

>> Everything. Student loans, kids braces, personal loans, time shares, phones, taxes, all the things.

>> Wow. Everything. Mortgage, too, or >> Nope. Still got a mortgage. We're in California. We got a little while, but we're next. >> And now you're free, though. 412,000 worth of normal. Yes.

>> Wow. How long y'all been married?

>> Uh gosh, what year? Almost a few years.

>> Yeah. Three and a half years. We started just before our wedding. So, um we had some great dates. >> So, you both brought crap into this.

>> Yes. Absolutely. >> And so, you've been married three and a half. And you say, "All right, job one, we're cleaning up the mess." >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Not living like this.

>> Get a fresh start. >> Yeah. We had a really hard time with a lot of car problems, deaths in the family, different things. And it just pushed us to a point where we were like having to borrow our kids' cars while we had one sitting in the driveway need a new transmission. And so we were just like trying to figure out how do we get out of this and change their >> We make We make too much money to be this broke. >> Absolutely. >> What was the bulk of the 412?

>> Uh student loans probably about a hundred or so. Some old stuff we had from previous marriages. Another couple hundred. So wow.

>> A lot of money. >> Was it just like collecting collecting to where you just went like I'm in denial at this point? Yes. >> It was like what's another three grand for braces on top of that?

Exactly. It was zero, you know, 0% for braces and so we didn't, you know, pay outright. And then when we were able to pay it off, it was just, I mean, trying to call to pay it off. They don't let you call and pay it off.

I don't know if you know, it takes six to seven times to call and Oh, yeah. You know, say, "We need to get your >> convince them to take your money." >> Yeah. It was really rough the last month and a half, I'll tell you. >> They like you owing them money.

Who knew? Who knew? >> Wow. Very cool, you guys. Very cool.

>> So, how did you get connected to the Ramsay stuff? >> Nah. So, I learned about you back in 2009 when my youngest son was born. He's 15. And um I mean, we've heard we did

FBU. You know, I talked to you on the show before I went to nursing school to talk about should I go to the Air Force, student loans, what do I do? And then I became a single mom. And so, when I did that, you know, I said, "Okay, I'm going to have to take student loans." Because I figured I knew better than you did.

You know, we were Daveish for a while.

And then, uh 28 months ago when we got our wedding and we both just said enough is enough. And so we did a couple more FPUs at home, downloaded Every Dollar and we have not done a month without every dollar for the last 29 months. So >> Wow, that's incredible. >> So it's been you've been aware for like 16 years, but life kept happening. Yes.

And so when you guys got married, you were like, I know just the guy.

>> Yes, you did. We had spreadsheets of all the different debt we had and it was a long list. >> Scary. >> No more spreadsheets. I hope you've deleted the Excel.

>> So Christopher, you knew when you were getting married you were getting into this, right? >> Oh, yeah. But I knew she was worth it.

So, it made it worth. >> Correct answer. >> Yes. >> Not into this all the debt mess, but into this I'm gonna go hardcore together. Yes. Yeah. She worked her butts off. She worked her butt off to get a lot of the debt done. >> A lot of side hustles. >> Yeah. I bet. I bet. Well, congratulations you guys. We're very proud of you. How's it feel to be free?

>> Yeah, it's a relief.

>> Um, so the main thing is we're just going to focus on not getting back into debt. And so it's just saving and saving. If we want to take a nice vacation, then we have either we have the cash to do it or we're not doing it.

So we're we're definitely on the same page on that. >> I love it. I love it. Well, congratulations. All right. When someone says, "How do you pay off $412,000 in 28 months?" That's stinking impressive. What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is?

>> Budgeting. Working >> every dollar for 29 months. Yeah.

>> Every dollar. Yeah. Making sure every dollar has a name. We logged our kids in. They have their own every dollar.

And you know, make sure that you know where your money's going and make sure that you understand the principles of it so that way you don't ever do it again.

>> Yeah. We're teaching them to go through college deer, too, because of you.

>> Yeah. >> Two in college, working three jobs each, you know, working their way through college and one about to go and they've all paid cash for their cars and I'm impressed by them and how well they've done. >> Wow. Very cool. You really have changed your family tree. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Yeah, we say more is caught than taught and they've been watching mom and dad just hustle to get rid of this debt.

It's like, well, there there's work ethic right there. They're catching that for sure. What was the hardest thing to cut out of the budget or the biggest thing you guys cut to make this happen so quickly? >> We were talking about that last night.

So, I refuse to give up kids sports for them because it was such a big thing for them. So, we'd actually argue about golf and instead of doing like a big golf round, we do a little golf round and we, you know, the grocery budget. I hear people talk about how much they spend. We're a family of eight and my budget's $1,200.

So, >> wa >> that's pretty good. >> Well, some of it that's for Great Dane dog food, too.

>> Yes, we have the Great Dane puppies.

>> That thing can eat. That's for sure. >> We have three. >> Oh my goodness. They eat more than the kids. Wow. That's incredible.

>> Costco. >> Yeah. Very cool, you guys. Very cool.

So, the budget is the deal. And eating it and you're you must be cooking a lot from scratch. >> As much as I can. >> Yeah. Which as a nurse, you know how good that is, right? the nutrition value and everything else >> completely different. >> So, well, way to go you guys. Way to go.

And you brought all of them with you to celebrate. All right, bring them up. Let's hear all the names and ages.

>> Come on in. >> Have a big celebration here. The family tree family tree has changed.

>> Bana's 19. We have Payton's 19. Memphis

is about to be 18. Jackson's 15. Ava's

13. And we have Noah, who's eight months. >> Way to go, Noah. You did it, man. You joined the clan, buddy.

I love it. >> So cute. Beautiful. >> Very cool. All right. Christopher and Britney and the gang from Sacramento, California. $412,000

paid off in just 28 months. They were working like crazy people living daily on a budget eating at home. $215,000 to

$350,000 income. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> YAY.

LOVE IT.

>> And the kids are going to school debtree and they're paying for their cars debtree and family trees changed.

>> That's impressive. And at this age they they saw the sacrifice. So they're going, "Yeah, I'd like to avoid that.

>> Yeah, I don't I think I'll avoid that." >> And yet they survive the sacrifice of mom and dad for two years. A lot of people say, "Well, you know, I don't want to I don't want to affect the kids." like maybe it should affect the kids so they don't fall into the traps that we fell into. >> Yeah. Well, they they did it.

I mean, they pulled it off. And um here's the thing. What what you saw if you're watching them and if you go back and watch this, you can pull it up on YouTube if you or or Spotify where you can see the video, either one. And what you what you'll see is you'll see their body language and it just says, "I've had it.

Not living like this anymore." They're just very resolute >> about that we're going to do this. we're not going to go back. We're never going to be there again.

And they got second marriages they're going into. And they finally just said, "Okay, that's it. We're pulling the plug on stupid. >> Let's clear the dicks." >> Yep. >> That's a beautiful thing. And it's never too late. That's That's impressive.

>> Yeah. And don't tell me if you got a bunch of kids you can't do it. Don't tell me if you live in California, you can't do it. >> They just proved you wrong. >> All these all these things is like hold my beer, right? So you can do it. You can do it. But it it came down to I mean

you could just tell looking at Britney. Britney put in some hours as a nurse. I mean and look at these numbers with the income dropping off. You can see that uh that her the number of hours she was working as a nurse to cause this to happen. And oh by the way just had a baby and oh by the way you know and oh

there's every excuse in the world but none of them mattered. They still went and paid off $412,000 in just 28 months.

>> I mean you blink in 28 months is going to go by. So the question is, do you still want to be in $400,000 of debt 28 months from now or do you want to just decide that today's day one of a journey

of 28 months? >> Yeah. But I mean, the matter you get, the deeper you cut.

>> The more resolute you are, the deeper you cut and then the faster you get out.

And then the higher the probability is that you make it and you stay out. The faster you get out, the deeper, the deeper you cut, the faster you get out and the higher the probability is you get out to start with and then stay out.

All of those things fit together and everything we've seen over the last 30 years in doing this and they've got all of it. That's this family of winners right here for sure. >> Very impressive.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

[Music]

Hey, if you're a business owner or a leader in small business and you've got a question about running your business, about leadership, how to lead the team, manage the money, grow without going crazy, family business questions, I'll take your call personally. I do a top

rated podcast on small business and leadership called Entree Leadership and you can call us. Here's the number. You be part of that show 84494410708449441070

or you can head over to entreeleership.com/ask and drop us a note there. We'll call and set you up as a caller on the Entree Leership podcast. Ryan is with us. Ryan

is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Ryan. How are you?

>> Good. Good afternoon, Dave. Thanks for uh uh taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So, question is is I am being told by my

ex-wife that I should cash out my 401k

to purchase a home. And uh the reason being is uh when we divorced about 8 years ago or so, um she she basically

took half my 401k and parlayed that into

purchasing a home. um five years later sold that home for a good profit. And so

now uh and then and and then bought another one. And so uh she's saying, "Hey, you know, you need to get out of stock renting and you should really put

that some of that money into uh real estate." >> I'm so confused.

>> Why would anyone ask their ex-wife for

financial advice?

Well, I saw what uh I saw what she had done with uh >> No, you didn't. You saw what she said she did.

>> When she cashed out half of that 401k, she got charged a 10% penalty plus her tax rate. She borrowed this money at 35% interest. By the time she flipped this house and made money, she didn't even make money.

She's so full of crap. She's a Christmas turkey.

>> You know, because I I see that uh you know, with the house that that that was purchased and sold. I mean, >> you didn't see all the penalties and taxes she paid on the stupid withdrawal from the 401k that negated any profit that she made on the flip.

>> Yeah, that is true. >> Okay. Because this woman talks out of both sides of her head. That's why she's called the exwife.

>> Yeah. Although she is in a house and I'm still renting. So, I gota I I >> Yeah. And what she paid for it was a dear price. >> Yeah. >> And sadly is probably so mathematically challenged she doesn't even realize it.

>> Yeah. It's quite possible. >> It's going to take her a lifetime just to catch up on retirement now.

>> Yeah. >> So, how much do you have in retirement?

>> Uh me personally now about 85.

>> And what do you make? >> Uh 130. >> And how old are you?

>> Uh uh 50. >> Yeah. Okay. If you cash out your money, they're going to charge you a 10% penalty and and plus a 25% tax rate.

It's like saying, "Dave, I want to borrow 35% interest. I want to borrow money at 35% interest to buy a house." Please don't do that. >> No, I agree. >> That does not put your face under the smart column in the dictionary. Okay?

So, no, don't don't do that. And and be

careful who you're listening to for financial advice in the future. Um, you

know, it's like watching some influencer on Tic Tac and they're on there doing their thing and they look like all they're running is the highlight reel and you see a private jet that they rented and don't own and but buy I can

teach you to buy real estate and I've got a jet. Yeah. That I rented 10 minutes ago. It's not even your own jet.

Come on, dude. You know, and and then you go buy a $3,400 kit from them which is where they actually make their money.

So, no. Just No. No. Be careful who you're listening to for money advice.

What you want to do is look at people that are understated and they're driving a Toyota

and they don't have any flash or any

bling and their lives are really solid and steady and predictable and sustainable and happy, highquality relationships.

These are called mature individuals.

They're not doing anything to impress others. They're living a life of quality.

And if someone happens to notice, they probably wouldn't even notice. And these are called millionaires. And if you can find one of those and actually get them to admit it and then talk to you, they'll teach you the real stuff about money. It's hard stuff like live on less than you make, save and invest, be

generous, live on a plan, >> don't rob your 401k to get into a house, that kind of stuff. >> Yeah. Common sense. That's on the Don't listen to your ex-wife for financial advice. Alexi is with us in Sacramento.

Alexi, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I recently discovered your podcast. I'm a new listener. Um, and I recently started my career. I graduated college last year. Um, so I've officially created like a monthly budget paying off my student loans and all of that. >> Good for you. >> But I was wondering Thank you. um on the best approach and recommendations for all the extra money that I have. Um I

recently learned about high yield savings accounts. So I was just wondering if that's the way to go or where to put my emergency funds or cash

that I need like easy access to.

>> I love it. You are thinking perfectly. a high yield savings account is what we recommend for any short-term savings goals like that are happening in the next 1 to 3 4 years and your emergency fund and that'll help it at least kind of keep up with inflation cuz right now the rates are about you know 3 and 12%.

And if you want a great one uh we got a great partner with Fairwinds and so if you go to fairwinds.org they have a smart bundle just for our fans that has a checking account and a savings account with a great rate.

>> Yeah. So high yield savings is where you would start for something like George said for your emergency fund which should be 3 to six months of expenses and of course you're staying out of debt completely. So we're saving up and paying cash for things and then beyond your emergency fund anything you're wanting to do with money in the short term. Now when you start thinking long-term for retirement then we're going to move towards mutual funds and some other things.

But yeah, George is right. uh this new partner of ours. Uh they've been with us for about a year and a half and they just became the studio sponsor just about a month ago and uh have we spent a lot of time with the people behind the scenes.

It's a good high yield savings account at Fairwinds Credit Union. So just look them up. Fair winds like the winds are

fair. All right, here we go. Uh Riley's

in Houston. Hey Riley, what's up?

>> Hi Dave. Um, I appreciate you taking my call. Yeah, >> sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so I have a question in regards to paying off student loan debt.

Currently, I have about 68,000

in total student loan debt. I do have quite a bit of savings. Um, and I'm just curious on how to tackle this. um pay it

in bulk, which I sort of have a feeling that you're going to say, or reinvest the savings to use the interest to make payments. Just kind of don't know what route to go.

>> We would recommend the debt snowball method, which means you're going to knock out the smallest balance first.

So, how much do you have in savings?

>> I have about 95,000.

>> Dude, pay it all off today.

>> Why have you waited? Uh, >> what's holding you back?

>> Honestly, it's just that mental aspect of not having that much in savings. Um,

>> you don't you have $68,000 in debt that you owe. So, mentally, I would detach and go, I don't actually have 90 something,000. I have, you know, $29,000

cuz I owe I took I sign on the dotted line saying, I'll give you this money back. >> And dude, you can be done today and not pay another dime in interest and be free. Hey Riley, where' the 95 come from?

>> Uh just savings from work. Yeah, like

>> and if you if you have 29 tomorrow and no debt, you can save even more.

>> And that is recommended rather than trying to invest that >> 100%. The number of millionaires that we've interviewed in all of our research that said I borrowed money on my student loans and made the spread and caused me to be a millionaire is precisely zero.

No one uses no one actually does what you're talking about to build wealth in the real world. It's all theory on Tic Tac.

>> Okay. And this might have came at a great time because I was um trying to do an application um and income driven application online. And prior to submitting, I was hoping that I could get into this call and try and just figure out the route because I I know what my monthly payment would would be at. Um, but obviously it it'd be in that payment for x amount of years. So >> I wouldn't do income driven anything.

I'd get rid of the debt. All you're doing is kicking the can down the road, dragging this thing out longer. You've worked hard to save and that's going to be painful to let go of that. But man, it's going to set you free when you have those payments back in your life, back in your bank account. >> Well, and you got this monkey off your back and it's in this case a gorilla on your back. Yeah. Get him off and you're

going to feel you're going to feel funny. You feel like you lost 300 lb. be weird. >> And you'll stack up that savings again real quick with no payments.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Camel, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Katherine is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Katherine. How are you?

>> Good. I have a question on a we have a

variable life insurance um which we know

now we should have never had um that probably eight years ago um we

took out to try to save my husband's business that we ended up having to sell to off to somebody else. And so there's

really nothing um left in there. The cash value that's left is like $4,800.

Um, I just didn't know like because we've kind of just been hesitating when then the people that have had it, they've kind of just said, "Leave it there." >> Oh, I bet. >> I don't know. >> Who sold this to you? Who hates you that much? >> Actually, it was a close friend that um

when we first had our first baby that she told us and of course cuz she sold it. So, >> yeah. >> So, we've just kind of >> she's out of the business. She's out of the business now, right?

>> Uh, yes.

They us they usually last about two years and then they're gone.

>> Um. >> Right. >> Yeah. So, >> we have like ter some term life also.

>> Okay. So, what does your husband make a year?

>> What? 275.

>> And how much term life does he have?

>> The term life is about 800,000.

>> Okay. All right. Is he healthy?

>> And then I have like I have like 250.

Uh, yes and no. He's 60. Um, but he has

had he has diabetes and has some issues.

But >> diabetes is a big one when it comes to life insurance. Um, >> he all right. And you guys have no money. It sounds like you've been through hard times.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> And you have you don't have any children left at home?

>> Uh, well, I have a one 16-year-old.

>> Okay. >> I do have a 16-year-old still at home.

So his the concern today is if the 60-year-old dies, he leaves a wife

and he makes what's your household income? You said >> about 275. >> He makes 275.

>> Yes. >> And do you work outside the home?

>> No. >> Okay. No. >> And so that you lose a $275,000 income if he dies today.

>> And um and he leaves you 800,000 bucks,

>> right? >> Okay. which is just over, you know, with two and a half years of income. >> If that was invested at 10%, it would make you 80,000.

>> So, you're going to be short about 200,000 based on the way you're currently living.

>> Um, >> right. >> So, if he was young and in good shape, I would tell him to get, you know, 2.5 million on him, uh, including the 800.

So, we back that out, but so, you know, one and a half or so, give or take. But uh he's not and he if um I I suspect at

60 with the diabetes it's going to be pretty expensive to get some term insurance. But the variable life insurance is um

it's not much in coverage is it? It's not very big policy, right?

Uh, no. It was when we first got it, it was like he had 500,000 and mine was but

where we took out it was probably like I

said like probably eight years ago it was like $70,000 we had in there and we

took all that out to try to save the business. But we we put in it's like

$275 a month. I'm like >> Yeah, but I'm talking about the death benefit. If he dies, what do they write a check for?

Oh, that's only 350.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And 275 a month for 350 even

>> for a diabetic 60-year-old is is ridiculous. So, >> and then that's where we're like we're just throwing that money away. I feel like >> Yeah. So, you can cancel that if you can afford to live on 800 grand if he dies tomorrow. Okay. If you instead another

route you could go before you could cancel it, you could go to Xander Insurance. talk to them and see if they can make a market, meaning if they can get a company to cover him, uh, and how expensive it will be. And try to buy a million. Okay? Try to buy a million, >> uh, on him if you can.

>> I had some when I was in my late 50s and 60s and and right around 60 years old just cuz SWI Sharon wants it. I didn't need it, but my wife wanted that instead of another diamond. And so, I did that and I but I'm in really good shape and don't have a single single medical issue. Um, and so and I don't I don't I

could lose some weight, but I don't meet the obesity markers. So, uh, I'm I can get the I could get the insurance. And so, that's that's the things that'll fight you at that age. Now, so go to Xander Xander insurance.com or call them and tell them you talk to us on >> that.

So, that's what I I wondered about that. >> See if you can get insurance to make you more comfortable. And then if you can, it's an instantaneous yes to cancel this.

I probably don't.

>> Okay. >> I'm probably going to take some of that $275,000 income and start banking it aggressively >> knowing that I don't have enough insurance.

>> Okay. That's what I wanted to know what to to do about that. >> What were you going to do with the money you cashed out?

>> Well, I was wanted to know like I mean

cuz you hear all this stuff about putting stuff into gold. So, I didn't know if that was something or put it where should we put it? I would just >> It's only like $4,800.

>> Well, number one, I'd make sure you're out of debt. But number two, we don't buy any gold. Gold has not got a good track record long-term as a return on investment. Instead, I would just buy good growth stock mutual funds with my investing. But y'all need to be doing a lot more than that. Making 275. 4,800

bucks ain't going to save you, >> you know, not in this situation. So, it's it's just, you know, it's smart thing to do is not gold and go to some mutual funds. But, you know, you need to you need to be laying out a game plan where you're saving like a $100,000 a year. And you do that for 5 years.

Now, you got a half million dollar on top of that $800. Now, we're starting to get there without insurance, without any more insurance, >> starting to become self-insured >> than the original 800. Yeah. But you got to rebuild after the business failure, rebuild some net worth and some wealth for survival for you and the the 16-year-old.

to go.

So guys, uh just to recap,

the life insurance world is polluted

with bad products.

There's really only one all the people that are not in the insurance business, all of us that are financial people that run numbers and are math people, all the financial people say to buy term life

insurance. The best deal on term life insurance is 15 to 20year level term.

That's a level premium and you should have 10 to 12 times your income on you

if you're have a family counting on you for your income. So if you make a h 100,000 you need somewhere around a million dollars million two something like that. And then if that 34 year old wife of yours with three little kids is left behind and you don't have that $100,000 coming home she could take that million invest it. It'll create a h 100,000 in income perpetually until the kids are grown and gone and you can invest in, you know, we have replaced you.

So, if you don't want to get too much, you have to sleep with one eye open.

shape, term life insurance cost is like the cost of a pizza. It's ridiculously

inexpensive to make sure your family's taken care of. Ridiculously.

And I just read a letter to our staff meeting this morning of a 52-year-old that had life insurance on her. And um they had just paid off a million dollars in debt four years ago and uh they were

on vacation. She had an aneurysm and was gone in 6 minutes and uh left another

million behind in life insurance now because they had done the stuff that we teach over and over. So it's just not very expensive if you go and do it right. But this investing inside of a life insurance policy like these stupid variable life and whole life policies are an absolute ripoff. Never do that.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

Well, as you've heard, the Fed has cut rates for the first time all year.

15-year fixed rate mortgages have dropped to the lowest we've seen in 11 months. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Buying an affordable home you love is possible if you work with a Ramsey trusted real estate agent. We have vetted agents to be high octane, high protein, get or done people. And you can find one of these trusted Ramsey trusted local pros for free at ramseyolutions.com/agents.

Time to do a real estate deal, boys and girls. I love it. Caleb's in Dallas.

Hey, Caleb. What's up?

>> All right. Thanks Dave for taking my call. Hey George.

>> Um >> so I'm on babys 2. I've got roughly

65,000 in debt. I make um

somewhere between 80 and 85,000 a year.

And my wife, she's in college at the moment. Um going to get her nursing degree. >> When will she be finished? >> She she will be finished uh this time next year. >> Oh, good. Okay.

So, she um she actually it's a good

thing she she was very blessed to be able to take advantage of her dad's GI bill and um we also have I believe it's

called chapter 11 32 maybe um since we

live in Texas uh she's able to get money

every month that's income on top of um

>> Wow. So she's going to school debtree and getting paid >> right. Yes, sir.

So my question is I've got um a thrift

incentive plan at work. It's not a traditional retirement plan. Um but it is after tax. Um I am required to put in

a minimum of 2% in order to receive profit sharing. Historically, the last three years, um, first year that I was

able to receive it, um, it was 10%, the

next year was 12 and then last year was 15%.

[Music] Um, I'm just wondering, should I continue to contribute that 2% in order to get that profit sharing because it, um, we're on track this year to get 15% again.

Normally I wouldn't. Those numbers are a bit ridiculous, so I probably would.

>> Right. >> Matter of fact, they're the most ridiculous numbers I think I've ever heard in in a good way.

>> Right. Um I I am very blessed to be

where I work and I thought I was

astounded by the I've never seen a retirement plan that that works as well as this one does. >> I haven't either and I've been doing this a long time.

But that's I mean you put in two, you get 15. That's kind of crazy. Uh crazy

good. And so um I mean if you put in two

and you're going to get three, I just pass for now.

>> But I mean and I all you people that get matched 3% on your 401k, I wouldn't I

wouldn't do it. I would stop your 401k temporarily and work your baby step two.

We always have said that for decades and it's worked to get people out of debt.

Um, but that that 2%'s not enough to

bother with one way or another. And the two for 15 trade is probably a pretty good trade. What are you thinking, George? >> Yeah. What am I missing? >> Are are you aggressively looking to get out of this debt making 805? How much can you throw at this thing per year or per month? So, I am um the first

first thing is I I'm on track right now to get out of debt now and since this

past month has passed a year and eight months. Um that's what I've calculated.

>> That's without a nurse's income, >> right? Exactly. >> That'll speed up a year from now.

that'll it'll just, you know, >> really inject some life into your >> She ought to be done a little over a year pretty quick or you know, soon as she gets that going. Now, what is she making income-wise from this program?

>> So, uh, chapter 32, um, the VA benefits,

I think it it depends on, you know, how

often she's in class, but when she is in

class full-time, she's it's like

12 to,500 a month. So, why would she not be in foot class full-time?

>> Well, it some um of this program doesn't

like the summertime for instance, she doesn't have classes all day. She only

has classes of, you know, 2 to four hours out of the day versus right now since she's full-fledged in the program,

she is um getting she's getting full-time student hours. Gotcha. So, >> Gotcha. Okay.

So, so you got another 15,000 or so coming in income from her while she's in school, >> right? Yes, sir. >> Yeah. So, you're making about a hundred and you got 65 in debt.

Yeah. You need to be debtree. Yeah. The year and 8 months sounds really good.

And if you she passes her boards right quick and lands in a in a pay in a paying position right quick, then yeah, I think you're going to be in really good shape and it'll be sooner than a year and eight months. I like everything you're doing, Caleb.

Keep it up. Keep it up. I'm glad you're paying attention, George. You know, it keeps coming back to if you pay attention, you win.

>> Yeah. If you know your numbers, what you're looking at, >> you know, those stupid interview questions we get sometimes, it's like, what's the largest problem Americans have with money? They want us to say student loans or credit card debt. And my answer is always not paying attention, >> living in problem. They're just wandering along like Goomer Pile on Valium, you know, and they just wake up at retirement. Shazam, I'm broke, you know. Oh my god. None of you people know what that is. Look it up on YouTube. Okay. Anyway, Christina Cristiana is

with us in Chicago. Hi, Cristiana.

>> Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um, so I have a question about baby

steps six and seven. So, my husband and I are are fortunately there.

>> Yay. >> Um, >> yeah, it's exciting. So, my question is

about the order of steps six and seven.

So why do you recommend paying off the

mortgage when the mortgage rate is like let's say 6.3%.

Um but the market returns your money at

10% and then with compound interest you

know >> because your math is because your math formula is very naive.

>> Okay. >> You left out risk.

>> Okay. >> And you left out the fact that you're psychologically, relationally, and spiritually carrying around debt around your shoulders. and it affects your health, your relationships, your career choices, and everything else. And so what we have found is is that the people that build wealth the fastest are the ones with a paidoff house, >> okay? >> Because they're free, >> okay? >> And nobody making them do anything. And

so suddenly they start making better choices instead of trying to maximize their wealth building off the back of a mortgage spread. You left off risk. 100%

of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage. We did research.

>> It was easy to do that research.

>> Yeah. >> Didn't take a big research team. >> Fairly fairly quick. But George, it's um

you know, um

it took me a while, Cristiana, to get to

where as a math nerd I understood that

the math formula that you're using, and I back then was using the same math formula. Well, I couldn't figure out what was wrong with it. And I finally figured out that the more debt you carry, the more risk you carry. And the more risk you carry, you have to mathematically adjust for risk if you're going to use a sophisticated mathematical formula on something.

And so you're I figured out that my math formula and Cristiana, your math formula that you're using now is the same one uh leaves out risk.

what you perceive to be a spread that you're making is is neutralized.

>> Yeah. Well, and what we find is, you know, someone loses a job tomorrow, there's risk there because now you still got to make that mortgage payment. And so it just opens you up. And on top of that, you know, it's not apples to apples when you look at a mortgage payment with 6% versus what you could make in the market.

And by the way, if it's outside of retirement, you're paying taxes on that versus the mortgage is a fixed savings plan right there. But you know, you're paying down that interest.

Hypertension, heart attack, so on. It's the number one killer. And uh and they've gone up as the debt load in America has gone up. And and so the the statistics keep getting worse. And so people say, well, nutrition's worse and there's more obesity. Very true. But also there's more stress.

And it's just strange, you know, when we say financial peace.

Two words that don't go together, like airline service.

What would it feel like to have your house paid off?

Goes beyond the math. It's hard to quantify on paper, >> but no one regrets it. Nobody goes, "Man, I wish I had a mortgage again.

That was fun. I'll do that to make a spread. [Music]

[Music]

Okay.

Okay.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Kyle and Ann Marie are on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsay Solutions.

Hey guys, what's up? >> Hey Dave. >> Good to have you all. Welcome. Where do y'all live? >> Mon, Georgia. >> Mon, Georgia. >> All right, just down the road. Well, welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? >> Uh, about $140,000.

>> Way to go, guys. And how long did that take? 18 months.

>> Whoa. Quick. And the range of income during that year and a half, >> uh, about 150 to 160.

>> Cool. What do you all do for a living? >> So, I'm a software developer for a local credit union. >> Mhm. >> And I'm a pre-K teacher.

>> Awesome. Very cool. What kind of debt was this? $140,000.

>> Oh, man. A little bit of everything. We had uh two cars, we had a heliloc,

>> some >> credit cards, student loan debt, >> student loans. >> What was the most of it? Student loans.

>> Yeah. How much of the 140 was student loans? >> About 90. >> Yeah. >> Okay. How old are you two? Uh 36 and 35.

So those student loans been around a while. >> Uh mine have been around for about 3 years. Hers maybe a little longer.

>> Yeah. Mine about 10. >> Okay. All right.

Yeah. They've been around a while. How long y'all been married? >> Four years.

Four years. Okay. Okay. So you brought them into the marriage then?

All right. >> Yes, we did. >> Now I'm getting a picture. And then 18 months.

Yeah. Out of four years. So after you've been married a little while, you look up and went, "Something's got to give." Yeah, we we just kind of got to the end of a month and realized where is it all at? Like we have all this money and we don't know where it's at.

>> We have good paying jobs.

It doesn't make any sense. >> Why are we broke? >> It just comes in and goes out. Comes in, goes out. Like this is not a fun life.

Then how'd you get connected to Ramsay?

So, I just started looking up just different, you know, financial what's the best way to, you know, help pay him some stuff off and Ramsay came up and I just got plugged in immediately and got every dollar set up and just started going at it and we sat down. It took us about 3 months to get the budget really intact. But it >> takes it about three. That's about right.

>> As soon as we did, we uh we were just rolling rolling rolling. >> What did you figure out once you once you got that budget dialed in? Where was the problem? So the I mean it was definitely just the amount of payments that we had in in every different category.

I mean we had what $1,800 $2,000 in payments of just stuff that we needed a strategy to >> definitely eating out too.

>> It was like we don't need to be going out this much. We can just eat at home and um parties with parents and stuff

and going out to eat with family was really big for me. And we just had to tell them, hey, let's just do it at the house and have a potluck just until we're done with this journey. And They supported us in it. So it was definitely worth it. >> Very good. Very cool. So I mean you guys leaned in hard for >> Did you sell something? This is crazy numbers. >> So yeah. So um July uh 23, no 24 we No,

it was 23. July 23 we bought a van and

put it on payments because we're like we can afford this. It's payments. It's not a big deal. >> Um and then in October when we finally started sticking it we were like man this is crazy. you know, we actually need to figure something out. And so, actually July of 24, so one year later exactly, we ended up selling the van for break even. >> Oh, wow. >> And we actually lost about 15,000 in that, which we called our stupid tax.

>> Yeah, >> cuz that's what the insurance paid out before we bought the van. And we should have just bought a car in cash, but we weren't that deep in with y'all yet.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. See, this will be a great down payment. We can get a nice car, you know. Oh my goodness. That's the American way. >> Yeah. Y >> Wow. Well, good for you guys. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt? Paying off 140 grand in 18 months making 150.

>> Definitely being on the same page.

>> Yes. >> Being on the same page with each other and making sure that that budget is key above all else. >> What was the biggest budget fight?

>> Like I said, wanting to give presents

>> presents and going out to eat with family and stuff. >> So, you're on my team. You're the spender. >> Yeah.

>> I'm definitely the nerd. >> Okay. Well, software engineer, of course. What am I thinking? Yeah, no question. Oh, man. Amazing. Amazing.

Amazing. Amazing. Well done, you guys.

So, um, wow. What do you tell people the

key to getting out of debt is then?

>> I mean, just sticking to the budget.

Really? >> Budget, the budget, and being on the same team. That's what I >> We don't We don't live out of the bank account. We live out of the budget. So, even if there's $2,000 in the bank account, we don't have $2,000. We have whatever's left in that line item. >> And that's what we've explained to people. We're like, that budget keeps you on track. So, you're not looking at what you have in that account at all.

You're looking at this is what I'm allowed to spend. This is what I'm free to spend >> that I chose that I was going to spend.

I'm the boss of me. >> Yes. And I'm the boss of that money. And it it it doesn't need to direct me.

>> Amazon Prime is not my boss.

>> Wow. What's next for you guys? You're in your mid30s. No debt. So, >> so we actually um we just listed our house this weekend >> and we actually are uh going to be selling it and moving up because we have a child on the way which is number three

>> and um so we're just trying to move up into our next house and after that it's just figuring out where we want to go on vacation. We want to go relax a little bit too. >> Yeah, that's a good new problem to have.

Where are we gonna go on vacation? How are we gonna pay off this debt? >> Yeah, >> I'm really proud of you guys. Way to go.

Very good work. really good work. So, who was uh bragging on you? Who was cheering you on? >> So, both of our parents were very very helpful in the entire process and understanding of it all. There were times where we had to tell them no to going out and stuff, but they were very understanding and helpful in the entire thing and they are here.

>> My my handyman dad, it was like, "Oh, we can pay you and grandchildren kisses if you'll do this for us versus us having to pay somebody." >> Yeah. >> That worked out very well. >> Yeah. >> I have not been bribed with that yet.

I'm not my I hope my kids are not listening now, you know. So, that's good though. I love it. Well, congratulations you guys. Very, very, very well done.

>> Um, were there people telling you you were weird?

>> Well, everyone at his job, of course.

>> Oh, yeah. I So, because I work at a bank, I work at the credit union, but I mean, yeah, there's I mean, there's always talk going around of, oh, we have this new credit card offering, and I'm just like, I'm good.

>> I'm all right. I'm all right. >> I think I think I'm set on that. Yeah.

Had enough of that. Yeah, >> pretty sure we're done with those things. >> Yeah. >> Well, congratulations you guys. Very, very well done. >> And uh yeah, onward and upward. The third baby on the way. The house goes on the market. Here we go. Game on. How's it feel to be completely free? $140,000

off your back. >> It's a blessing. >> Yeah, it is. It was It was It was all God guiding us the entire way, but it is it is such a freeing feeling for sure.

>> Yes. What was the hardest thing about the whole process?

>> I mean, for me, it was it was just really just making sure that, you know, every every time we sat down to budget that we were on the same page.

>> Mhm. >> That was really the biggest one. >> Towards the end, actually, I was the one that was like, "Come on, let's just cut those last subscriptions just for a month." He hates ads and I was like, "Dude, we got to let this go. We can do it for that last month and then celebrate." >> So, we watched ads for a few months.

Brutal >> to think the car was first world problems. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> We watched ads like when we were kids.

Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's You'll tell your kids one day. These are the sacrifices we made.

>> We made >> We watched ads for three months. Yeah.

That's great. Very cool. Well, congratulations you guys. We're very proud of you. Did you bring the kiddos with you? >> We did. >> Yes. Bring them up here and here. Introduce them. Ages and names.

>> So, Daniel is three. Uh 24 hours ago he decided to jump off of a playground and fracture his shin. So why not Daniel?

>> Yeah, he was uh being super brave. And we got Bella. She's one.

>> All right. Sweet Bella.

>> So cute. All right.

>> Fun. Yeah. >> All right, you guys. Kyle and Ann Marie.

These kids don't even know what their parents have done to change their whole family tree. 140,000 paid off in 18

months, making 150 to 160. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1, >> we're debt free.

>> YEAH,

that's how it's done. Daniel yelled from his little stroller down there cuz he couldn't get up because of his bum leg, but he was yelling

Oh, good time to be debtree when you have an emergency like that and you just cash flow it. >> Changes an emergency into an inconvenience. But wow, >> pretty cool. Hey, that's a powerful couple right there. What they pulled off in that short period of time and right after getting married, too. >> Yeah. >> I mean, they sat down, pushed through all the relational stuff, made it all happen. Very cool. Very cool. Proud of you guys.

[Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music] Heat

up here.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 22:1, "A good name is to be chosen rather than great riches, and favor is better than

silver or gold." Philip Fischer said, "The stock market is filled with individuals who know the price of everything and the value of nothing."

Ryan is in Minneapolis. Hey, Ryan, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thank you for taking my call. Uh my wife and I are currently in baby step three and we'll be finished with that by the end of the year. We receive an annual bonus in March. It'll be roughly $15,000 take-home. Would it be better

for us to take that 15 to fully fund our

Roth IRA or to spread our contributions

out throughout the year and use the bonus between steps four, five, and six?

It doesn't matter much.

Either one will be fine. The difference mathematically is what you might earn.

If you do the 15 all in a lump sum in March, what would you have earned in March versus 11 12th of the month all the way around.

And so, you know, like say the average might be what you would earn on 8 or 10,000 of that 15. So, it might be

$1,000 difference. It might be $800 difference on a on a 10 or 12% year. Um,

>> unless we had a crystal ball, we won't know for sure what the math is on that.

But in general, the sooner you get money into the market, the better off you're going to be long term, >> right? >> But, but it's not I mean, the difference in it's not like you're going to have millions of dollars more because you did 15 lumpsum versus 15 oneth of the time

all the way around the the horn. Right.

>> Right. But but basically for instance in my case, okay, I fully fund my 401k for

the whole year in January,

>> okay? >> I dump the whole thing in there, okay?

Because I can. I own the company and I can just bonus myself whatever I need to and make sure I got enough to do that, right? So I just load the thing stinking thing up and then I've got that I don't know, let's call it 20,000 bucks or 30,000 bucks or whatever it is. it's working the entire year rather than 112th working the entire year, 212ths working part of the year, 312ths working part of the year, 412 working part of the year and so on. You follow me?

>> So the difference is what I would make on 30 grand, 27 grand, 28 grand, 24

grand, 23 grand, 22 and so on all the

way around the horn. And so it's

George is right. a lump sum up on the front end is going to average more than than doing it monthly. The second thing to enter into the conversation because it's a good question um is

you want to be sure if if the steady monthly thing keeps you doing it because

you're on autopilot versus jumping on and off the wagon with lump sums and you don't you're not as predictable with it, sustainable with it. that way you'd be better off sticking with the one that that keeps you doing it. And so I set up stuff I I set up stuff early in my life once I started understanding these principles to trick myself into having discipline like automatic 401ks or automatic draft on my checking account for Roth IAS or those kinds of things back in the old days. So I automatically had debt.

started this stuff um there was no internet of course and so there was no auto there was very little autodraft on utilities and that kind of stuff. You used to have to write a check and send your electric bill through the mail.

Okay. And as soon as they set it up where they would take autodraft, I put all my utilities on autodraft so that I never missed a discount and and to and

that's been God that's 25 or 30 years I've been doing that. So, anything I can do to have autopilot automatic discipline? >> Yeah, I like that mentality cuz if you were investing 15% of your income forever, you got to learn to live on 15% less than you would have. And so, it's sort of like that money was never there.

And that's a good way to live because it keeps you in check. So, I think that long-term discipline is key. But for this year, if you just wanted to fund them and be done with them and move on, that's >> if you've, you know, for 10 years you've always gotten a a bonus in March of 15 grand and you want to just label that that's going to go towards our retirement and we're going to do less through the rest of the year. Fine.

I don't know, you know, but whatever you do, trick yourself into being consistent and uh and when given the opportunity, a lump sum early in the year will outperform a steady monthly investment because it's been in there longer. There's a fancy in there longer. >> Dollar cost averaging. >> Well, that's what you're not doing is dollar cost averaging when you put it all in there.

Yeah, you're missing out on that.

Hey, R.J., how are you?

>> Hey Dave, how's it going? better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so my question is um see honestly I'm in baby step two and I have like 12,000 in debt. CDL school is 3,000. I

don't know if I should go ahead and like what school >> go back and what school >> CD CDL school >> to get your CDL. Okay, just three grand to do that >> I currently have my CDLB, but in order to increase my income, I need a CDLA.

So, like, should I go into more debt and like 3,000 more to go like to to make more money or should I wait until I pay off my debt completely and then once I'm done baby step two, should I go ahead and like, you know, cash flow that three grand school to make money back?

>> Um, it's like a sweet I'm I'm currently a super driver corporation of America.

>> So, you're not driving now?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm currently using my CDLB.

I'm currently making money well with my CDLB. >> Okay. What are you making doing that?

Um about 54 54 a year.

>> And what would you what would you stay with the same company and or change jobs? >> No, I definitely I definitely change jobs. I go like to a higher paying company. I probably make at least 70,000 maybe like 80 to 100. I mean 70 to 100,000. There's no limit.

>> How quickly could you save up three grand making what you make now?

>> Uh maybe like three or four months maybe if I really put more into it. Yeah. And I what I'd do is work six extra jobs and sell so much stuff the kids think they're next and scrape up three grand in cash about in about a month. But no,

I'm not going to borrow money to go do it. >> The the secret to getting out of debt is to stop borrowing.

That's the first step. You got to quit looking to debt to be your answer, to be your savior. Every time you want to go do something, you got to say, "That's not an option anymore. I'm going to take debt off the table. It's not an option.

Now, how am I going to do this? Well, it's a good thing to do. I mean, if you can spend three grand and up your income 25 grand, I think you ought to do that.

That sounds pretty good. But and so what that means is I'm going to be working my tail end off, man. I'm going to be working like all the time and go get me three grand cuz I mean, >> right, right, >> that's where money comes from is work.

And so, go get you some. That's what I would do. And I'd be busting it, man.

And at the workplace, I'd be asking for overtime. I'd be asking workplace to pay for it and and let them, you know, maybe they keep you on at 70 grand with a CDL, right? And so, yeah,

there's nothing wrong with that, but that's and there is a shortage of drivers right now. So, that's not a bad thing at all to go get that um, you know, get that license to be able to move some stuff around. Uh, yeah, I'm

definitely going to go get the money, but no, R.J., Hey, I'm not going to I've never told someone in 30 years to go into debt on this show. >> Guess we're not starting today. >> Yeah. And um it but if I were in your

shoes, I'd be wanting that three grand.

I'd be wanting it really, really bad. Yeah. Some good ROI on that. >> I'd go get some. I mean, what do we got we can sell? What about that motorcycle, that four-wheeler that's out in the backyard? >> Oh, why don't Yeah, we go sell it. Get

your three grand. You're getting ready to borrow money. You know, you're sitting on some junk back there somewhere probably that'll pay this thing. So, just figure out what what what you can do.

Once I took debt off the table, George, I started seeing all kinds of creative options. >> Your imagination runs wild when it doesn't involve a lender. >> Yeah. When I can get stay, you know, once I do anything to stay away from a bank or I can't do the thing, well, I want to do the thing.

So, I'm going to go find a way, but it's not going to be with a bank. >> Yeah. I just crunched some numbers here. here.

Okay, now I know what it's going to take to go get that license.

>> 120 hours of extra side hustling.

>> So, that 5 hours a day for 20 days.

>> There you go. >> Ding.

>> So, there there's the math on it. >> I might be tired. Oh,

>> well, you might. >> He sounds like a young guy. >> I know, not him. He's got energy. He wasn't a whiner, but I mean, I've talked to a few people that whine. It's okay.

>> You might miss uh the next series on Netflix. >> You're not going to die from hard work. Right before you die from hard work, you pass out. It's okay.

[Music] >> That's how the Lord intended it.

>> That puts us hour on the Ram of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

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## 247. You Breathe Easier Without Payments Choking You | September 4, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gC_0he9r9p4) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:30 |

---

[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show where we help you with your life and your money.

We're taking calls. If you want to call in, the number is88255225.

We'll get you on the line. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel in the place to be. I can't wait. This is going to be fun. Do the people know?

>> They know. Yeah. I My wife and I, we just had our second baby, a beautiful little boy named Henry. So, I'm coming into the show cuz I just needed to get out of the house. Jade, >> listen. I wondered about that.

>> Okay. >> We got a lot of help at home, though. So, she's doing great. Mom's doing great. Baby's doing great. We got applause in the uh lobby here. Thank you guys so much. >> Yeah. So so great. I'm glad you're here with me in the co-pilot seat. George, let's take off to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, where we've got James on the line. What's up, James?

>> Well, congratulations on the new baby.

>> Oh, thank you. >> Uh you're very welcome. So, I just inherited $750,000 in a Roth IRA. >> Oh, wow. From who? I'm going I'm going to buy a new home. Um mainly because of

the neighborhood I'm currently in. It's time to find a new one and the spouse would like to be farther out in rural central Pennsylvania. What I'm trying to figure out is what is a a a good amount

to pay for a home. We've got a little disagreement of about 50 to 75,000 on what we should spend. >> Wow. So you know that you know bar none, hey, I want to spend this money on a house and you're just like how much should we spend? Have you kind of looked at uh you know real estate in your area

to find out okay we're looking for a threebedroom we're looking for this and this is what it costs.

>> Yeah. Oh yeah. I've been on the MLS uh probably 3 hours a night for the last two weeks. >> And what are you finding?

>> Um I'm finding a lot of prices coming down on on homes that I didn't think I could afford a month ago. >> Uhhuh. >> Or I wanted that I wanted to pay for a month ago. Um and a lot of areas. Um,

and I've and I've pretty much tossed away homes that definitely need a lot of work or we don't have good pictures or I was a realtor 20 years ago and I'm astonished at some of the the the the pictures they put on the MLS. I'm like, my god, buy a camera. Come on. >> So, you're What's your current house worth? >> Yeah. >> Uh, 160.

>> It's worth 160. And is it paid for outright or do you owe on it or >> No, I I owe I owe 80,000 on it. Um, I've

got a 2.5% mortgage. Um, I I had the

stupid thought of renting it after I buy another one, but the more I listen to the show, the more I'm thinking, nope, I'm just going to sell the thing when I'm done and and be done with it.

>> So, what's the plan? Is >> is the plan that we're taking the proceeds of the current home sale and we're adding it to the 750 and we're spending that and buying the house in cash or tell me what you're >> and No, we're we're going to buy the house in cash and we'll we'll put the the current home up for sale, you know, 6 months from now or whenever. Um that's not that big of a rayment.

Well, I'm trying to figure out out of that 750 because I the rest of the money

um I'm going to work for five more years before I hit 67 and retire. My spouse is

30 years younger than I am. I want to make sure the house is paid for. They've got no debt when I die and pass on to the great heavens. The only thing they're going to have is a spousal social security to live off of and whatever they're making. They're they're a stay-at-home um artist.

>> Okay. So, that's where I want that's where I want to camp out. That's where I want to camp out. So, your spouse is 30 years younger. You've got the 750. Is this the only money to your name or do you have other uh 401k retirement money

elsewhere? >> No, I I have not had any type of work benefit um in in 15 years. I make

120,000 a year >> um consistently. I work um you know 65

70 hours a week. So, this is this is the part this is the part where I'm not so sure I agree that you should spend the majority of this on buying a house because a >> we're not we're not we're not thinking we're not thinking that either. The dis the issue is uh my spouse wants to spend

maybe 225. I'm thinking no let's go 325

and and and that's where we're at. I mean what what because it's it makes a huge difference in central PA on what type of house we're going to get. >> Sure. Um, >> so what would you do with the rest of the money? Let's say you did 325.

>> It's it's sitting in a Vanguard EFTS and

it's going to sit there. >> Okay. And that becomes your retirement account essentially, your nest egg.

>> Correct. Yes. >> So you plug in those numbers in. So George, >> how old are you now?

>> I'm sorry. >> How old are you now? Current age?

>> 62. >> Okay. So let's say you let this ride to

80.

>> Okay. >> And you have zero. You have zero in it. Now, how much will be in there once you let's say how much are you going to dump into that account?

>> About I can I'll probably I don't know

10,000 a year, 15,000 a year. I can put anything whatever because I have no debt now. I I >> I thought you were going to do like hundreds of thousands. >> Why not dump like 400,000 in there and let compound growth do its thing for the next 18 years? >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Cuz that would give you, let's say you did 400 grand in there, that's 2.4 million when you're 80.

>> Nice. That's not a bad uh legacy to pass on to your loved ones. >> Yeah, because you're still going to have the money from the home sale, too.

>> So, you're going to have plenty. You sell the house, you're going to pay off the mortgage as part of the sale and have some equity left over. Do you have anything in savings? Do you have a fully funded emergency fund right now?

>> I I my emergency fund will come out of this 750 because I've never had one and I know I need one. >> But you said you've been making six figures for a while now, >> right? And I was paying down I was I was $142,000 in debt up until a month ago. I wiped it all out. >> You spent You spent the last decade just cleaning up a mess.

>> Exactly. >> Okay. I just wanted to make sure that we don't have a spending problem here to where you just spend this money within the next decade.

>> Right. Right. Understood. Understood.

>> And what about your spouse? Do they work? You said they're an artist.

>> Yes. But they don't spend any money at all. It it it's almost impossible to get them to spend even 20 bucks.

>> Yeah. But do they make money?

>> Um not a lot. 20 25,000 a year.

>> Listen, I want to find out how you can live on $20 and be that frugal.

>> That's wild. That takes starving artist to a whole new level. >> Yeah, that does take it to a whole new level. Um I Let me just tell you this.

Uh with the situation that you're telling me, I'm going to just tell you what I think and you can take it or leave it. I think the spouse needs to find some way to bring in some money. I don't think you can just not do anything. And I don't think it's a a fair argument to say, "Well, they don't spend any money, therefore they don't need to make any money because they do spend money." And even if you don't view it that way, you're the one who called in and said, "Hey, I want to make sure they have something more, not just social security, right?

So that person can help contribute to that.

that." So, I think that's a conversation that you need to have because the truth is this money was >> um a windfall, right? It wasn't something that you worked to get and you guys got lucky to get this money. So, I don't want you to have to rely on luck anymore. I want you to rely on, >> okay, we can have the wherewithal to do what we need to do to make sure we're set up uh very very well.

So, that's my two cents. And I do think there's some there's some frugality, scarcity mentality with your spouse here that I think needs to be dealt with. And I don't know if that's therapy. I don't know what happened in her past, but it sounds like there's something here where she goes, "I'm scared of having too much.

>> I don't know if I can handle it." So get to the root of that and figure out what's actually going on there, cuz I think what you're saying is reasonable. A $300,000 home in 2025, everyone's going, "Well, sure." >> Yeah, >> that's nothing. >> Yeah, you can do that. And matter of fact, I want you to check out our uh our Ramsey Trusted site.

You can look at the housing market in your area.

when you are ready to buy. So, check that out. Um, yeah, be smart with this money. $750,000, it's a lot of money, but if you're not smart with it, especially when you're talking about something like a house, real estate purchases, it can be gone in 2 seconds. >> Gone with the wind. >> Gone with the wind. And you need that.

[Music]

I've seen people do everything possible to get out of debt. Selling stuff, starting side hustles, cancelling subscriptions, giving up eating at restaurants, even turning off the air conditioner in the summer, and sweating through it. But most of them don't know they're overpaying for their phone plan.

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To the phone lines we go where we have Jesse in Maui, Hawaii. What's up, Jesse?

>> Hi. Congratulations on the new baby.

>> Oh, thank you, Jesse. So kind. This is a fun day for me. >> Everyone's so nice. I know. How can we help, Jesse?

>> Um, so I have started following you guys

like literally eating, breathing, sleeping. Ramsay.

>> Oh, you drank the Kool-Aid.

>> Yeah, I've I'm deep. But I want to just

confirm if I indeed have to downsize my

home. >> Oh. >> In order to survive this situation.

>> Yeah. Tell us more. Tell us what do you make every month? >> Yeah. Well, currently I'm making 6,000 with my

part-time. Um, I'm a nurse, but about three years ago I got a divorce plus an injury >> and so I went I was at 135

>> and um I was able to do everything but

with I assumed a debt for the divorce and I was unemployed with the injury with no income for several months.

>> Oh shoot. >> So now I'm working. Um, so yeah, so I'm

at the low end of a nurs's spectrum, but I am applying and, you know, trying to find something that I can do.

>> Are you able to work full-time now?

>> Yeah, I'm full-time, but I'm not able to work like a floor.

>> Um, you know, like hospital kind walking. >> So that limits your >> to a different role. >> Yeah. Okay. >> How long? >> Yeah. So I am Yeah. How long till you feel like you would be at kind of an optimal nurse's salary and what would that be amount-wise?

>> Um, if I got the position that I'm

trying to apply for, I'd make probably 10 to 11 starting, >> maybe 10,000 a month starting.

>> Um, >> and what's your mortgage payment every supplement?

>> Uh, 39.

>> I'm sorry, 29. No, I'm sorry. 29 and change >> even still. But >> so right now it's about half of your income every month. >> January. Yeah. But I have a I have a

1100 HOA which is starting in January going up and I have the debt.

>> You must have a nice view plus loans. I do I you know I like my house and I I

was like yesterday I was okay. I was like no I can downsize. I can sell and go get a condo, one-bedroom condo. Um

but then this morning I'm like I like my house. What's the total payment with the 1100 HOA?

>> Um, so it it comes out >> Oh, I'm sorry. You said 2900

includes the HOA.

>> No, the HOA is separate and they're raising it to,100. >> So, we're talking it's going to be four grand a month here shortly.

>> Yeah. Which is like >> that's the part that scares me. >> 69% of my income according to the

dollar. >> Yeah. I mean, you can't live like that.

So, the question >> I Yeah. >> The question is in reality,

the grandest scheme of reality, how quickly can you get to this $10,000 payday? And when I say get to it, I mean you're taking the check home.

>> Well, it's with the state. I applied uh for a job with the state. So, um I don't

have control even if I I put out some feelers with uh somebody who works in the department >> to try to feel out, you know, to keep my application and they said they'd try to contact somebody >> and that's >> but yeah, >> that's the only line you have in the water.

>> Um yeah, because >> Okay. And how long has it been there?

>> How long how long since you applied?

>> I just applied last week.

>> Okay. So, we've got to what what I'm why

I'm asking these questions and why I'm being so direct is we've got to kind of have a breaking case of emergency button here to where you can't go on with this

being 69% of your income for much longer. So, if you said to me, Jade, I applied for this thing a week ago and I'm giving myself 3 weeks. If I don't if

I'm not pretty much 100 that this job is

happening, I'm moving. And I feel like that because hey, this is your only line in the water. It's not like you're telling me, "Hey, I've got a lot to choose from. One of these is going to pan out." You've got one line in the water and it's been a week.

You haven't heard anything and you're not really sure what lever you can pull to make it happen >> is what I'm gathering. >> To go back to my original salary, I have to go back to basically um middle management or higher. And that's kind of what killed me in the first place and why why I was I took a I was going to take a break from it and go, >> "Yeah, I don't want you to take a job that kills you just to keep a house you like. That's not worth it.

Your quality of life will go down." >> And not to mention, let's just be honest, even with the $10,000 a month, a $4,000 payment is still higher than what it should be. >> And it's not going down with insurance and property taxes and HOA, that payment's only going to increase >> until you pay off the mortgage. So I think as my friend Dr. John Deloney would say, we need to degree the picture you had of your life where you were 100% healthy, married, here's what our life's going to look like.

>> And so I think we have to kind of choose reality and go, okay, what can I afford right now? Maybe one day we'll get back to this beautiful home or something like it, but right now you got to do what's best for you, especially with a pile of debt to clean up. How much is the debt?

>> Yeah. um with with the parent pluses

that aren't in my name, but legally I think I'm responsible for them.

>> No. >> Well, you signed the Did you co-sign for that parent plus loan? Someone did.

>> Yeah, my it's in my ex-husband's name.

>> Oh, you said you assumed all the debt.

>> I agreed that I would pay it so that he wouldn't uh touch the house.

>> Okay. So, it's part of the divorce agreement.

>> Yeah. That's when I was still working.

like I left him debtree. Um,

>> and if you sold the house, could you pay off all of your debt? What's the total debt excluding the >> 99?

>> Okay. So, you owe >> 999,000.

Yeah. >> What's the house worth and what do you owe? >> Um, I owe 323 and um I could I'm crossing my fingers to

put it on the market for 1.2.

Okay, good. >> So, you would clear the debt and probably have enough money to purchase something cash?

>> Yeah, I was hoping to downsize um to go

to like a one-bedroom condo. Um condo prices are dropping in Maui because of the fires and >> um just there's new legislation about Airbnbs and such. So, I was thinking if

I sold I could get a one-bedroom condo,

maybe for like 500, could >> clear some of this debt, too. Clear the debt out. >> You'd be in a very different place. Cuz here's the thing. Even if you were able to pay the debt off, you still have the same problem in front of you.

>> The mortgage is just simply too high for your income. And unless you see it going up to 15 16,000 in the near future, it's

still going to be a lot of your take-home pay, taking away from your goals to pay off debt, get the emergency fund, the best for the future, >> single person. >> Exactly. And if you're married again, we'll reassess the picture. >> Sure. >> So the 99,000 that's it for you

of >> Yeah, that's including this the parent pluses that I agreed to assume.

>> Yeah. Listen, I think that's my name, but you know, I think >> I think that's the move. You've got an opportunity here. You clear this mortgage. It's it's a headache for you anyway. You take some of the money uh that you're going to gain here. You pay off the 99,000. You find something that you can afford in cash. And if it takes

a while, if you take say, "Hey, I'm going to rent for a bit until I maybe save up a little bit more if you need to, then so be it." I think right now to

George's point, you're starting a brand new life. And the good news is you've

got some equity to to to build that life off of, but you also have time. Like there's nothing that says I have to now you do need to get out of this current house, but there's nothing that says that you need to hurry up and buy the next one. You can take some time and really decide what that what a new property looks like in this phase of life. And I like that for you.

>> I'm breathing in the freedom of having $800,000 to Yeah. take 500, throw it at

a home, 300,000 left over, take 50 of that for an emergency fund, and you still have a quarter million down payment for your future home. And so, I love this. I can I breathe easier just thinking about that for her versus I make six and I owe four every single month. Am I going to be able to eat and pay down my debt?

>> You know what you're saying, George?

because when you call in, you know, you're full of anxiety, you're full of stress, the payment is about to, you know, knock your block off. And so, it's like you're so focused on wanting to keep your kung fu grip on that house.

But if you would just let it go, like you said, you can finally breathe. The stress is gone. You don't have that crazy payment again, and you've given yourself the opportunity to get something that actually is sized right for your lifestyle, for your budget.

Listen, that's a win-win. >> Make that view a screen saver for now and put it on your vision board. We'll get back to it in no time. But right now, we got to clean this mess up. We're wishing you the best.

[Music]

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Or if you happen to be watching this on YouTube or the podcast, you can just click the link in the description. All right, let's go to Nicole who is in Ohio. Hey Nicole, what's up?

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Doing good. How can we help?

>> Good. So, I have a kind of not really

quick question. Um, so I am um currently

in school. I'm set to graduate at the end of this year. >> I left my job um a year ago. Um my

husband was making 60 grand a year. Um

very recently found out um I'm pregnant

with twins. I've already got three kids.

>> Wow. >> Wow. >> Um yeah. However, here's where it starts

getting a little wild. Um, we had a

recent um chain of domestic events. So, I now have a protection order against my soon to be ex-husband. I'm filing for divorce. >> Oh my goodness. >> Um, so sorry. >> And I mean, with me, so I'm not working.

I'm not set to graduate till later this year. And I have no savings. I have my

only income is child support from my first two kids. So, I guess I'm kind of just like I don't really know what my

next steps are. My parents um luckily I

um rent from a family member, a home from a family member. So, like that asset was protected. Me and the kids are we're safe now and that's where we are.

But there's been talk of like, should I just go on state benefits until these two babies are born?

>> Um, should I go ahead and try to find a job now even though I'm in school full-time? Like, I just I don't really know what to do. >> Well, um, I'm sorry that you're going through this. Um, this is really tough.

>> I want to clarify a couple of things you said just to make sure I understand everything. So, pregnant with twins and that's from the soon to be ex, but there's another there's another person from the other two babies that's paying you child support.

>> Did I understand that correct? Okay.

>> Yes. >> And you've not filed for divorce with

your current ex, right? It's just you're separated.

>> Um, I'm actually filing this week.

>> Okay. So, you're filing this week because what I'm trying to account for is the the no savings and the this and the that because the sooner that we can kind of get this wrapped up, do you think this is going to be a thing where it's like lawyers and all this or do you think it's something you can do in mediation and just get it done?

>> Um, I think he is going to fight it. So, I I have already contacted a lawyer. Um,

and actually I took out a loan from a family member to pay for my retainer.

Like I said, that's actually >> all going through this week.

>> Okay. >> Um, but I have a feeling he's going to

try to drag it out.

>> So, okay. Can you give us a picture of what you guys' financial picture is like? What how much debt is there? Is there any money between the two of you?

Is there any assets? Can you tell us that right quick?

So, kind of luckily there won't be many

assets um to split. Um me personally, I

do have student loans. I'll have about 60 grand when I'm done. Um but as far

like the cars paid off, the houses, you know, in a family member's name. Um there was no big bank accounts, nothing

like that. Um which I guess it kind of

paid off to be a little broke. Um, >> so you'll likely walk away from this with 60 grand in your student loans and no money in the bank. Is that what you're assuming? >> Okay. Yes. >> What are you going to school for?

>> Uh, nursing. >> Okay. And that's done in December.

>> Yes. >> And you can immediately get a nursing job or is there uh you need to take the exam?

>> Um, I will have to take the national board, state board. Um, but other than that, yeah. Um, and we've actually been

encouraged to go ahead start applying now, which I have. Um, not as a nursing

job, but I've applied for a position within a hospital. I'm just waiting to hear back. >> Okay. And then what does child care look like for five kids?

>> Um, so my parents are both retired, so

they watch the three now. Um, and they'll watch these two when they're born. >> Wow. That's a blessing in this nightmare

at least. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And they've committed to say, "Hey, we're going to watch all five." >> Yes. >> At no charge or do you pay them?

>> Nope. I they I jokingly when my mom quit

her job, I was like, "Well, now you get paid in love." And she was like, "Yes, I do." >> Wow. That listen, that right there is enough to answer the question that you asked before because before you said, "Hey, do I need to go on basically government assisting?" And so for me, I'm thinking, okay, your housing is covered because this is a family member's house that you're living in.

You got child care, which for a lot of us is the next biggie. So out of your four, what I'm going to call five walls in this case since the child care, out of those five walls, now we only have to cover food, transportation, right?

Keeping the utilities going. Are you working? Is there any way that you can work at all? Because you got to have something coming in and do school on the side. Is there any way to to make that happen? >> Yeah. And like I I did apply for a hospital job. Um it it's not a nursing

job yet. Um but they did say that like a role transition would be an option.

>> Oh, great. Do you know what that role would pay? Is it more administrative?

>> It's probably be it's like 18 to 22 an

hour would be my guess. >> Okay. And how many hours a week do you think? >> About 24 cuz I'm in school full-time.

I'll actually next we're getting ready to start our next quarter. So, I'll be in school uh three sometimes 4 days a week.

>> Okay. But you could still bring in, you know, 1,500 to two grand a month doing that part-time, which lets you survive through this period while finishing school. I would encourage you because you're this close and you have that child care provided. I would finish because this income is going to be your path to freedom. Yep.

>> To getting rid of these loans. >> Not Yes. Not finishing school isn't an

option. Okay. >> It's just a matter of can I balance the

school >> cuz nursing school's really hard.

>> Yeah. >> On top of being pregnant with twins.

>> When did one of the twins do?

>> Uh they are due in March.

>> Yeah. Oo. If you can make it to the finish line and I listen twins is a whole other set of circumstances. You

know if you can get these first, you know, four or five four months and keep working, keep going to school. I don't I'll be honest with you. I don't know how long that's going to last carrying twins. Hopefully you're able to go till term. How old are you?

>> Uh 33.

>> Okay. Hopefully you're able to go till term, finish out at least your school year. Um and and get that going. But

listen, that's my prayer because if you can do that, yeah, you can avoid government assistance. You've got so many people in your corner that seem to be willing to help you out. If you can avoid that, because it's a trap. So if you can avoid that at all costs, I would.

Um, but if you hit a point where it's like, "Hey, the doctor's telling me I can't be on my feet. Doctor's telling me I have bed rest." Something like that. Listen, no one's going to judge you. >> You need insurance.

Like, don't go a day without insurance. Do you have good insurance right now? And will you lose that? >> Uh, no.

marketplace insurance right now.

>> Okay. And who's paying for that?

>> I am. >> Okay. And with the child support income, is that all you have right now?

>> Yes. And that's uh less than it's like

$240 a week.

>> So it's like minimum it's enough to pay the house payment and that's about it.

>> Okay. So you know you take that $1,000 a month, you add to it, you know, your 20 hours a week making 20 hours $20 an hour at the other job. You can make you can make this happen. The question is just how long, you know, and how how will you feel throughout this pregnancy as it continues on? So, just my advice is make the most of it as early on as possible,

right? Don't wait another second to get this part-time job going. Don't wait another second. Keep applying for those nursing positions so the moment that you can take it, you're there, if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. >> Oh, boy. >> Nicole, if you if you can survive this, nothing's going to stop you in the future. This is the hardest season of your life, hopefully.

And uh it's only going to be better from here on out, but you've got great support. We're cheering you on to make it through this hopefully quickly and as unscathed unscathed as you can be while taking care of all these kiddos. >> Yeah. >> Oh, we're thinking about you.

[Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

What I want to know is, are you staying on track with the baby steps?

>> Yes. Oh, that wasn't for me, was it?

>> Well, George, I sure hope you are for crying out loud. >> I You couldn't stop me if you try.

>> I know I couldn't. But I want to know the folks out there. Yeah, you listening. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Do you even know? Cuz if you don't, you need to take a quick quiz to check your progress. And when you take that quiz, you will receive a personalized plan that's just for you.

In order to do that, simply head to the show notes and click on the link that's titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and you can complete the quiz, which I hope you do. All right, let's go straight to the phone lines where Carly is in Annapapolis, Maryland. Hey Carly,

how can we help today?

>> Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. Um, I was hoping to get an

unbiased opinion on what my husband and

I should do in this next chapter of our life. Um, for context, we had our first

son about 4 months ago, and I'm getting ready to head back to work, and I'm thinking I would like to step back and be a stay-at-home mom.

>> Cool. And what's the uh debate here?

>> So, I feel like I am in shame for giving

up a six figure salary, and that's what

we're struggling with.

>> What kind of six figures? like the ones, the twos, the fours. Like where are we at? The ones. Okay.

>> Okay. What's your household income and what's your portion of that?

>> Um, so I make about 125 and then my

husband makes about 130.

>> Awesome. >> And we have no consumer debt and we just have our mortgage.

>> Cool. And you have an emergency fund?

>> We do. >> Love it. Have you guys done a a sort of mock budget using Every Dollar to see what life would be like living off of just his take-home pay?

>> Um, we have, but not on the Every Dollar platform. Um, we've calculated everything pretty much by hand. And I

think we would be essentially breaking even every month um without making major

cutbacks. breaking even as in you could still invest 15% of your of his income

and still have enough to throw a little to college, enough to throw a little bit at the mortgage or what?

>> Um, we would have enough for to be adding to his retirement and then saving

for college I think would be very slim

and then saving for my retirement on top of that would be a very small portion as

well. So, when we say retirement, you kind of have it broken out by his and hers. We're thinking of it more as a grand percentage. So, we're looking at 15% of your take-home pay, which in this case would just be his take-home pay. >> So, 125,000 times 15%, that's 18750 a

year going into whatever retirement accounts. It could be a Roth IRA for each of you. You max both of those out and then fund a little bit into his retirement plan at work. That works. But your retirement number overall will go down because you're not investing a portion of your income anymore.

>> Right? Okay. >> So, I think you guys are in great shape.

If this is what you feel called to do, I would not let a high salary stop you.

There's been lots of people who make even more money. And they go, I feel called to this and we're going to make peace with it. So, what I don't want you to do is say, oh my gosh, you're going to get judged either way, Carly. Here's what happens in the mom world. You get judged for leaving the highpaying salary job. You get judged for staying home.

So, which one would you rather be judged for?

>> I think I would rather be judged for being with my family. >> There we go. And guess what? You don't care about their opinion, do you?

>> No, I do not. >> So, that's the key. Are you secure with the decision you're making? My wife struggled with this as well. She was here at Ramsey for 9 years at the top of her game, executive assistant, crushing it, making great money, >> and she decided, I feel called to this, and it's not a apples to apples thing.

This is apples to oranges. So, it's hard to compare 120, 130 grand versus being

at home with baby. It just does. I wish it could work that way because I love just logical math problems. This is a valuesbased decision that is very emotional. Yeah, I just want to pull the string a little bit more and double check because because the the retirement thing threw me off a little bit for you.

So, what is your mortgage? Tell us your mortgage right quick.

>> Um, our monthly payment is 2,200 a

month. >> Okay. And that's including HOAs and everything?

>> Yep, that's everything. >> Okay. And he's bringing home what?

>> He brings home about 5,400 a month.

So that's what our >> that feels awfully low for a guy making that's after retirement.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. What is it after taxes?

>> Do you know what his after tax pay is?

>> Yeah, that is after taxes. If we bring home of his salary about 5,400 a month,

>> right? But that's that sounds like it's after taxes, after retirement, after insurance, after everything. Do you know what just his after tax pay is? I just want to make sure that you do have the money to do the things that George is saying. At the very least, you got to be able to do the 15%.

>> Okay. Yeah, I do not know um that number off the top of my head. >> So, that'd be your homework if you were going to sit down with your home with your husband tonight. Just say, "Hey, I want to let's look at what you're making after taxes and then let's compare that to what our take-home pay to what our mortgage is and kind of see where that lies." Because what you're looking for is you got to make sure he's not just investing up until the match that he's really doing 15% that's going to set you guys up for the long term.

And then that can if it's out of balance that could just be you doing something part-time on the side here and there just to close that gap. I'm not suggesting that you have to keep working when you don't want to.

>> Okay. Yes. So right now I know so like we each get a 5% match. Um and then we

both contribute 10%

to our 401ks and then I contribute on

the side to IRA for the both of us.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So it sounds like you're there just double-checking those numbers to make sure and doing them as a full percentage and just remembering yeah your money is not going to be there anymore. It's just going to be based on his salary. But I like it. I like the idea of staying home. >> Yeah. A lot a lot of green lights here.

And you the the fact of the matter is you might have to make sacrifices. Your lifestyle might look different. We might not eat out as much. We might need to, you know, lower our self-care and fun money budget. But I think the trade-off is absolutely worth it. And if you ask anybody who stayed at home who feels called to it, there's no no regrets there. So I think you're thinking through the right thing. Like it's it's a values-based emotional decision that then leads to a math problem.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> So those are the two parts we have to figure out. And if the values, emotion parts there, now it's just what sacrifices do we need to make? What must be true for this to happen and not be super stressful?

We go money is so tight that we can't breathe. And >> listen, very rarely, very rarely it's like no, you can't like you cannot stay home. Like if you stay home, no one's eaten. >> I mean, we get calls from people making, you know, 50 grand household with a bunch of debt and they decide to have a stay at home spouse.

So if they can do it, you can do it, too.

that's going to require lifestyle change no matter what. You got used to a certain level of life and now it's different. >> That is so true. That was a very good question.

Thanks for the question. >> And to Jay, to your point, what we were digging at there with the housing parameter, if you've listened to the show for a long time, we say no more than 25% of your take-home pay going to the mortgage. >> A lot of people think we're the bad guy for saying that, George. >> Yeah.

But what they don't understand is what when we mean by that is your after tax monthly income, right before other deductions. So don't include the 15% to retirement. Don't include the healthare premiums you're paying out of your paycheck. And that really helps to get closer to that parameter.

And again, it's a parameter. >> That's right. And >> if it's 26%, we're not going to knock on your door and say, "Time to move out, bud." >> That's right.

It's included the taxes and fees. Right.

So, we want to make sure that we're holding those sides together. And like George said, if you're 30%, you'll live.

you know, when it's when you start creeping up in the 35, 40 for a long period of time, it's unsustainable at that point. So, these are what we call rules of thumb. >> And the goal is just to not be a house poor. The goal is to have extra money to put toward your college funds for the kids to put extra toward the mortgage.

Otherwise, just trying to scrape by.

Yeah. >> That's not going to be a good quality of life. >> Which, let's play this out even further.

Okay. So, a lot of times people will call in here, they're engaged and they're about to get married and they're telling us the plan is immediately they get married and immediately they buy a house, right? Which we tell people all the time, George, we're like, "Hey, why don't you wait a year? Like, wait a year, rent, you know, get to get used to your new lifestyle because what a lot of times happens in that first year of marriage, George, if you buy a piece of real estate and then a year later the wife is pregnant, what happens?

They bought a house based on two salaries and now they're having to downside >> downsize. And so >> you already went from like wedding stress into house stress. It's a recipe for disaster. >> I know.

I know. And so all of the advice that we give you, just remember it's cuz we love you. It's because we want the best for you. We don't want you to experience stress.

We want you to have financial peace, financial ease. Stick around.

[Music]

[Music]

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

to get involved in the call scene today.

You can call 88825-5225

to get your name on the line. I'm here hosting. My name is Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel. George, are you ready to get it on and >> I've never been more ready. >> All right, let's do it. We've got Elaine from Indiana on the line. What's up, Elaine?

>> Yes. Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so I am dealing with a little bit of financial infidelity um from my

husband >> and I'm just kind of wondering, you know, how we can move past that. The original incident, well, I mean, it's happened several times, but the kind of straw that broke the back was about a year ago. Um, I learned that he had borrowed about $14,000 from his

employer. >> Oh gosh. So, I guess they offered to pay off a debt that was trying to garnish his wages. Mhm.

>> Um and I found out >> um it was from he had started a business several years ago.

>> Um and so we're working on paying off a lot of the um consumer debt that was kind of left over from that. And so >> did you know about that debt before he got the loan to pay it off?

>> I did. And um we did get a you know a notice about the um they filed the lawsuit. It was a court date. He said he went to the court date, explained to them that the business had been closed and they kind of just said they were washing their hands of it and I didn't hear anything else about it. Um, >> so he made up that entire lie that they

>> um I think he went I don't know that um

it was actually, you know, wiped clean.

Um I don't think you told me the full extent of it.

>> Well, clearly it wasn't cuz then he turned around and borrowed it from his employer, >> right? Well, somebody showed up that his work. um a deputy or something maybe and with the order to garnish his wages >> instead of doing the garnishment his employer paid it off and they took a lump sum out of each one of his checks.

Um and I didn't found out until about 9 months after his checks had been >> um >> so essentially he tried to avoid wage garnishment by having his employer do it for him. >> Mhm. >> Exactly. Until that was about a year ago.

I found out that and I actually, you know, we have kids and I I was done at that point. He's made a lot of stupid financial decision decisions in the past. And >> but before you go before you keep going forward, I want to keep pulling that first one. So he they were garnishing the wages out of his checks, 14,000.

much? Cuz how did you not how did you not see that >> when >> um he got his own bank account?

>> Separated all of our finances. >> Okay. So finance is totally separate.

Okay. >> So, he he made a lot of moves to hide this from you.

>> Mhm. Yeah. >> Like open another bank, then move the direct deposit to that new bank without your knowledge. And then have you guys had separate finances in the past?

>> No, they were together up until about

two two or three years ago. Um and ever since then, it's been Yeah.

>> So, you said this was not the first thing. Give us another example of something because this one's pretty extreme.

Um well, when he had his business open,

I saw um a bill in the mail for um you

know, one of his I guess suppliers or somebody and it was a lot more than you know I had anticipated. I'm going to asked him about it and he was like, "No, it's wrong. It's wrong. It's wrong." It said would say he'd take care of it. And then finally when I call, they're like, "No, like we've been trying to get a hold of you. This amount is correct.

This equipment was never returned. your bills, you know, $15,000 >> as opposed to what you thought would have been 15,000 >> maybe a couple thousand. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, these are big numbers.

>> Yes. >> Have you asked him directly, why are you lying about all this? What's behind it?

>> He says that he knows that it stresses me out and so that he's just trying to take care of it himself without me having to know about it. >> So, take care of it means more lies, more hiding things.

>> Correct. And you've made it clear that's not how you're going to rebuild trust in this marriage, >> right? Yes. Um, >> has he fully owned up to all this? Like where is he at today?

>> Well, that was a year ago. Um, you know, and I said that I was done and I was tired of him lying and hiding things from me. Um, and I actually moved in

with the kids with some family and we, you know, he cried and he'll never do it again. And, um, so we decided to work on things. So, we're living with family and collectively, you know, we have probably about $90,000 of debt from this previous, you know, company that he had started that didn't work out. Um, so we

said we'll tackle it together. Um, well,

a few weeks ago, I found out that somebody else had um tried to, you know,

sue him or whatever it was, and he got another loan from this company.

>> Oh. >> This one was only $3,000.

>> Yep. and that um for the past 3 months he's been paying that off and it's paid off now and we were able to pay off the $14,000 one, you know, once I found out about it and I said, "Let's put everything towards it." And so we did that. So I thought everything was good after that. And then >> but you guys, you never you never really sat down and and counseledled your way through this. It was kind of just like, "Let's try it again. Let's try it again.

Let's try it again." And I'm not really >> very defensive. >> I you know, here's the thing. You're telling us this. I 100% believe what you're saying. Uh you said he, you know,

you left him and he cried and all this stuff. I don't know what the what the word is for that, but there's a word for the fact that he's making a mistake, but he's putting it on you by saying, "I don't want you to be stressed. I don't want you to be the one that's upset.

This is too much for you." Like, there's a word for that. I don't know what it is, but I know I don't like it. Um, and

there's just part of this word. Yeah.

You've outlined many instances and yet

he continues to do the same kind of crazy erratic behavior with his debt and with his money. Yeah, I would I would sit down with a counselor and in the

meantime, yeah, I would keep the money separate and I wouldn't do much more on this until you can sit down with somebody and say, "Here's what's going on. I don't know why my husband is continuing to do this behavior. Maybe I

maybe I do have a hand in it. I'm willing to own if I do." Right? and you guys both sit down and until you've given this a fair shake with the help of a professional, you know, that's what I really want for both of you because something is and I'm not um apologizing or giving merit to what he's doing, but something's causing him to do this.

Whether it's some sort of scarcity mind, the way he grew up, some some piece of him is feeling like he's got to control this and hide it from you. I don't know why, and I'm not saying that it's right, but I hope you guys can get to the bottom of it. And if it were me in the meantime, yeah, I would set some really clear boundaries, George.

with money because I got to keep our family safe. So, my question for you, Elaine, is do you earn any money?

>> I do. Um, and you know, combined we do

make a decent. I mean, we bring in about 135,000 >> a year. About 45 of that is from myself.

>> Okay. So, you're bringing in 45. So, what I would say is this. I'd say what would make me feel safe while we're in counseling is for us to put our money

into this account. and I will give you full transparency into what I'm doing with the money, but you you're taking

our money and you're putting it on debt and you're making payments and you're putting us in an unsafe space. Will you go to counseling with me? And if he says no, he won't and no, he won't combine the money, then now that's your that's your chance for you to take that to counseling and figure out what you need to do next cuz you can't control him.

>> Yeah. You you need consistent honesty from him over time and proof through actions. Those are the two things that will rebuild trust. And if he's unwilling to do that, that is him opting out of this relationship. So you need guys need to go through counseling and start to set those guardrails and boundaries and work towards healing.

[Music]

[Applause]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right, if if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills next week?

>> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

[Music]

If you are a listener of the Ramsay Show, you are listening to my voice right now. And I'm grateful that you are. And if this show has done anything great for you, I want you to help spread the word. You can like and subscribe to

and share the show um by doing that on whatever whatever platform you're on.

You know, we've got the Ramsay 101 playlist. So, that's a great way for you to share the show on YouTube with other folks. Or if you're a person and you like, you know, looking at our social medias and we post clips from the show and you think they're, you know, funny or helpful, use the little paper airplane icon and hit it and share it with somebody clip. >> You never know who's going to watch it and go, "Hm, tell me more.

>> Tell me more." And it's helpful for everybody involved, especially us. It helps us with the algorithms. So, it's something you can do that's totally easy, totally free, and totally makes a big difference. All right, let's go to Bill in Illinois.

>> Hi. Hey, how are you guys doing? First of all, I want to say that uh it really is a uh pleasure for me with you

allowing me to speak with you today. It is an honor and um I have a question um

regarding uh what my wife would like to do and basically I want to uh find out

what is the best way to convince my wife that keeping cash out of circulation

um meaning out of bank accounts you know that it isn't a good idea and there is a backstory to that if uh you know you'd

like to hear that. >> Sure. How old are you two? Um I am 62

and she is 64 and we've been married for 6 years. >> Okay. And I assume the back part of the backstory is there's some trauma from the past where she is has her security gland is just popping off going uh we cannot keep this money out there. Was there theft in her life? Was there was she poor at one point? What happened?

>> Um well um you're a little bit right.

Uh, it deals with her dad, my father-in-law, and he was placed in a nursing home in 2021 and passed away in

2024.

He had no savings to speak of. Um, and

he had the social security income, which of course was taken by the nursing home, and he possessed several low value properties to include his home, which sold for 40,000 in 2023.

So in addition to Medicaid, the state of

Illinois conducted an audit of his assets that my wife had to painstakingly research to include collecting and

researching, you know, all his bank statements. And she had to account for every penny he had spent for the last 3 years. And that um consisted of going to

the bank and explaining the situation to them and uh you know pulling all those bank statements. And then she had to provide a reason why assets which um he

was a u a mechanic. He had some old cars

and they were sold and she had to backtrack to find out uh when they were sold to whom and for how much.

>> So she's just sick of dealing with banks and she doesn't want Uncle Sam involved.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. And it's it was very painstaking and loss of sleep, tears, and of course,

you know, when when a spouse feels stress, >> the other spouse is going to feel that too. And there wasn't much I could do as far as, you know, consoling besides helping the best that I could. And then

after doing our internal audit, making

sure that we have all the documents, they provided a very long checklist that we had to follow. And we did. And that's

to say that my wife did. She's very meticulous. But they kept rejecting

them, stating they were incomplete. All the documents that were uh provided, they'd come up with certain things. No.

No. So here, let me cut you short for a minute because what this what you're describing is the result of poor estate planning. >> It's >> Oh, there's no doubt. >> And inep government bureaucracy on top of that. >> Exactly. >> So both and there. And what you're attempting to do is avoid that completely because what you can do is manage your money properly so that whoever precedes you and outlives you doesn't have to go through the bureaucracy that she had to go through.

Right. So if we can help her to

understand that, I think we can win this battle. >> How much money is she wanting to keep on hand in cash at the house? Uh right now,

um we got uh 25 and uh probably around

75.

>> 25 and 75 or 75 total?

>> 75 total. >> $75,000 just sitting in a safe,

>> right? Um and she says that would make her comfortable. And of course, being her husband, I want to make her comfortable. >> And you guys are not broke if you have 75 grand sitting around.

>> Well, is that the only money to your name? >> No. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Um, >> okay. There's retirement accounts, there's you have a house, all that.

>> Absolutely. And debt we

>> um well, the only debt we have is the

house, which is uh it'll be less than

102 after our uh payments that we uh

make this month. >> What's it worth? >> Um uh the house is worth 304 according

to Zillow. >> And what do you have in retirement accounts that are invested?

Um, we have a total of uh 652,349.

>> Okay, great. And so she's just saying, "Hey, this 75,000 that's your emergency

fund more than 3 to 6 months of expenses is probably she's like, I don't want to keep that in HYSA. I just feel better having some cash money in a safe in the house." Is that basically what you're saying? >> That is correct. So, if I were to go into a home, she didn't want to be in the same type of situation to where um

I'm retired military, so I feel that I would based on things that I've been exposed to um throughout my military career that I would be the first one to go in. And I just want her to not have

to worry about the same things that she had to go through um with her dad and

his estate. We are more organized. we

have I mean >> you are I can already tell that you are and here's the thing this $75,000 is

neither here nor there in the conversation that you're having the whole idea of uh estate planning and being wellprepared that really has nothing to do with the $75,000. This is a small detail of a bigger estate that it sounds like you have planned. The biggest thing to make sure that she feels good is you both Yeah, you both need a will. you both need to probably sit down and find out is there enough wealth or is there enough uh transferring going on that maybe you need a trust, right?

So th that's the bigger conversation and you guys can sit down and have that. You can take the wills quiz that we have that will decide if you can make a will on the spot or if you need to go a little bit deeper and do a trust or something like that. So that's your homework and when when you get off the phone, Kelly will pick up and make sure you're set up with that wills quiz.

I'd probably split the difference with her. Honestly, I would say, "Hey, sure,

we'll put half in a high yield savings and if we get a safe for the house, we can put half there." I really don't care much on it. Yeah, you're going to lose out on a little bit of, you know, compound growth from the interest, but I particularly with what she's been through, I wouldn't die on this hill. I would maybe, like I said, try to get half of it in the bank. Um, but the bigger conver I mean, do you agree, George?

The bigger conversation is not this 75,000. >> Yeah. I mean, it's a small part of your world collectively. You guys are just about millionaires.

And so, this is not a make or break, but I do think we need to deal with the the scarcity mindset behind it.

>> And there's more risk in her having it in a safe at home than there is having it in a bank account. there is a a higher percentage chance that a natural disaster, theft, loss, inflation eating away on the buying power versus having it grow in a high yield savings account.

There's more risk there than there is of the government's going to come take this money one day to pay for your home to pay have you.

>> I don't know if other states have this.

Um but in Illinois, there's a spousal

impoverishment law. So, um,

hypothetically, if we had separate savings accounts and I went into a nursing home and then, um, where we couldn't or my wife couldn't pay anymore for the nursing home, they would start going after my assets >> and I would feel that would protect. But you're going to have a net worth. Your net worth is going to be so much so that you guys are going to be able to just live off of the interest and that nest egg is going to be there to provide for care because to your point, the average person is only in a nursing home under 3 years.

So, it's not going to be 10 years of draining this account down. And I would personally work with an estate planning attorney to walk her through all this, to have a professional go, hey, here's how to protect the stuff you're talking about. Here's what will and won't happen in the future based on how we set this up.

>> Yeah. >> I'm so sorry you're going through this, man. That's tough.

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Back to the phone lines we go. We got Taylor. She's in Tampa, Florida, my home state. What's up, Taylor?

>> Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

It will be recorded.

>> Are you recording me? >> Thanks so much for >> What's that about, Taylor? Are you still here? You know what? We're going to record this too for quality assurance.

>> Hello. >> Yeah, we're here. We're just we're just making fun of you.

>> Sorry. Yeah. I wanted to record it for my fiance because my question is that we recently got engaged in April and now we

are in the wedding planning process and I wanted to know what you guys recommend for um a budget based on our current

finance date. And then also when we're in a non-traditional situation where most of the wedding is going to be coming out of our own pockets and my family won't be paying for it. How can we split up that given that we do make different income? >> Yeah. Okay. Good questions. So,

is this so that you can prove to him that you're right? So, you're recording it just to >> Is this really a settle the debate?

>> No, just Yeah, just information gathering. Um, and to be fully transparent, I don't know if I've even fully sold him on having a wedding. Um,

>> what he hasn't proposed yet also brought up elopment. Well, he's proposed. We're getting married, but the actual wedding verse the wedding ceremony and the whole party for all of our friends and family versus just the two of us going on a vacation together and probably cutting that cost in a quarter, if not half.

>> What's his argument for aloping?

>> It'll be cheaper. >> That's it. And is it because you guys are in dire financial straits?

>> Dire straits. >> No. So, to give you a little background, um, he W2ED about 180 last year. I W2ed

about 120. I also do some babysitting on the side to try and make up for some extra income. He also started a new company last year and he anticipates to bring in about an additional $100,000 just this year alone. Um, we do have a

house together. So, we broke the naughty rule. That was before we started listening to your show. Okay. Um, and we

bought it in 2021. It was $396,000.

Our current principal is about $320. Um,

our regular monthly payment is about $2,000, $2,400, but we always pay more.

We usually pay between 3,000 and 3500

per month. >> Do you guys split that mortgage evenly payment?

>> Yes, we do. >> So, he's just kind of a little bit he's just being a little stingy with the wedding purse strings is what it sounds like, right? you got money. How much are you looking to spend?

>> So, that was kind of my question to you guys as well is what's an appropriate amount amount based on our current finances. Based on what I've been researching, I'm thinking between like 50 and $70,000.

>> And when would that be? Do you guys have a a date in mind?

>> Year. >> Okay. >> 2026. Probably towards the end, like fall. >> So, let's say one year from now, we need $50,000 saved.

You guys could do that real easily. If you split it up 25 each, let's say, >> could you save up 25 >> in 12 months making 120? Could he save up 25 making at least 180? The answer is yes. You guys have no debt other than the mortgage?

>> Uh, we also have a boat. We owe about 30,000 left on that.

>> Oh gosh. Okay.

>> You could knock that out and save up for this wedding no problem within a year.

So, as far as who's right and who's wrong, I don't think it's a, you know, if he wants to lope, that's on him. But you your dreams and vision is involved now if you're getting married. And so you want to throw a party. Let's have a compromise cuz you are throwing a party for everyone else. >> That's what you're doing. That's really the bulk of the cost of a wedding.

>> And so understand that going in. Decide on a number. You're clearly the like the nerd in this situation. You know your numbers really well.

>> So you run the wedding budget and say, "Hey, here's what we need to save up each month to make this happen. Are you committed?" The only part that I might push a little bit in a different direction, not a different direction, but a little different is the actual split, like how you split it. Um, I might do it by

looking at the budgets because the truth is he makes a decent amount more than you, especially if he's making that additional 100,000 this year. So, he probably has more margin to put towards it than possibly you do. But, I would do that process together. I would sit down.

I mean, I'm saying this from It sounds like you guys have already combined everything, but I'm trying to be correct here. So, I'd sit down and look at your budget and say, "Here's the margin I have." Him look at his paycheck and budget and say, "Here's the margin I have." And then you guys together decide, well, it makes sense that he would put this much and you would put that much based on your own margins.

Does that make sense?

>> Yes, exactly. And I um did also want to mention my parents are gifting us $15,000 to do with it as we please.

Whether that's alopment, whether that wants to go towards our house debt, our boat debt, a wedding, they kind of are just saying congratulations on taking this step. Do with it as you wish. Nice.

>> Um so then we would just have to split the difference. And also I have $130,000

in my bank and he has about $40,000 in savings. So we kind of are are already there. I mean obviously those are emergency funds but that's where it's just you know frustrating getting over the curve of why we can't afford this

wedding when I feel like we are both in a very >> you can he needs to change his language and just get to the root of what's actually behind it and it might just be I really don't want to spend a bunch of money to throw other people a party and that's fine but he still has to put on a you know brave face smile have a good time >> he wants the money to go towards his new business >> yes the business I could buy a new boat with 50 grand anything. Exactly.

>> Well, he's going to have to get used to this because marriage is a team. And the part I don't like about the well my I make this and he makes this. We should Well, that's going to become tit for tat scorekeeping for the rest of your marriage. >> It's going to become, well, you made more this year, so really you should apply more toward this goal and I'm going to apply this much.

That's an exhausting way to live. And I hope that when you're married and it happens sooner rather than later, which you could get married next month with the money you guys have. Nobody needs 130 grand emergency fund, you're doing great. I'm happy for you.

Uh but really, you could have this wedding four months from now. >> Yeah. I >> And then move on with your lives, be completely debtree, throw the rest toward the mortgage, and start to build a life together instead of one that's separate where, well, he made this and I made this, so this is how we're going to do things this year. >> Yeah.

I I'm I 100% am with George.

what is not going to be the case is whoever makes more gets to make the decisions. It cannot be that and it can't start down that that path. So, the good news is you guys have some time to keep having this conversation. Try to have it in a light-hearted way, but take detailed notes because how he reacts to this is going to tell you a lot about who he's going to be.

>> Man, wedding planning will reveal who you really are. >> It sure will. >> It is It's stressful. It's a lot, but it can be a fun season if you do it right and you guys are aligned from the get-go instead of have, you know, bickering about it the entire way there.

That's not going to be fun. >> Does it make it easier when your wedding's free? >> Well, here's the thing, Jade. We had a free wedding, but the parameters around it, we had 50 people.

So, if you guys don't know listening to the show, my wife found a local wedding contest and we won. >> That's so >> back in the day, but they only let 50 people, that includes bride, groom, bridal party, and guests. Has to add up to 50. That's the total amount that we attend, which means we had to exclude most of our friends and family.

>> Yeah. You know, a lot of people. >> So, we had to throw another party later that day, which ended up costing about half of a normal.

>> Exactly. We had a wedding, reception, and then another reception.

>> I don't think I realized that. >> I was exhausted, >> but it was a great time. Highly blessed and favored. >> Oh my gosh, >> man.

Weddings are just that will really test your your you and your future spouse. >> It will. I feel like Sam and I's wedding was pretty smooth for the most part. The biggest thing was I remember getting in kind of a a debacle with another family member who was getting married at the same around the same time.

So around like dates like who was going to get married on which date. >> Oh, here's my take. If mom and dad or mother-in-law and father-in-law want to invite extra people who you don't even know, they cover the bill for those people. >> Oh man, that needs to be written.

>> No, man. Do you know what I read? I read uh a good rule of thumb is when you're making the guest list. So, if you're going down, you're like, "Oh, Bob from college. Should I invite him?" You know, or like Eddie, we used to be roommates, right? You're like going down the list. You're supposed to think about 10 years from that point. like 10 years from now, will me and Eddie, will me and Bob still

be will we still have the relationship we have today? Will it be better, worse?

And kind of like foresee that. And if you can't see them in your life 10 years from now, don't invite them. Which listen, that leaves out a lot of co-workers.

>> Yeah. I'm not getting invited. I know that. I'm getting cut from the list real quick. >> I'm just saying that. And I think about that sometimes if people are getting married around me and I wasn't invited, I really stop and think about it. I'm like, listen, 10 years from now, you're a ghost. like we don't know each other.

>> Be very judicious with your wedding planning friends.

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Well, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck been feeling like you just can't get ahead. Number one, I've been where you are. And I'm going to tell you the antidote is you need to join our free every dollar trainings, guys. There are new trainings every single week this month. And they're all hosted by one of our Ramsay personalities. I actually did one today, George, on my lunch break.

>> Wonderful. >> Yep. And we're going to show you how to stick to the budget and even find up to $3,15 of margin using every dollar.

>> That's impressive. >> It's a lot. 30 days, three grand on the line. >> Come on. >> What do you got to lose? >> Nothing. Your debt. Hey. Okay. That's

what I'm talking about. Plus, you can ask any questions that you might have during a live Q&A that takes place at the end. So, if you're interested in that, you can sign up for free at ramseysolutions.com/webinar.

Be there or be square. All right. Scott is in Orlando, Florida. Hey, Scott. How can we help? >> Hey guys, how's it going?

>> Doing good.

>> Good. Um, you know, there is some intro music whenever I sign in. I got a feeling that's the last time I'm going to be dancing. Um, I got a bunch of

I've just started listening uh to this show and um and I've realized I need to

make some changes. Um, and so I was just calling for some advice. >> Well, the good news is this is as bad as it's going to get. It's up it's it's going to be easier from here on out. How much debt do you have?

>> I've got about $300,000 in debt. Okay.

>> Break it down for us.

Um, it is most of it student loans. I got about $220,000 in student loans. Um, and then the rest of it is IRS debt. I have about $80,000

in taxes I have to pay back.

>> Wow. Were you self-employed? How'd you rack up 80 grand to the government?

>> Yeah. So, I ended up in both of these situations. After uh college, I term pro at golf and I traveled around playing golf. And so, uh, this year I got

audited for I've been using a schedule C. I got audited for all my tax years from, I don't know, 2015, 16, something like that. And, uh, the auditor felt as

if it didn't cost as much as it as it does for me to play. So, I had some losses on some of those years. And so, he disallowed all of my schedule C's and then said, I owe this money back. So,

>> um, that's kind of how I ended up in that part of the situation. Um, and then the same thing with the student loans is like while I was traveling the world or traveling the country playing, >> um, obviously I wasn't paying back my student loans and that stuff was just racking up. So, >> what was your degree in?

>> Um, I got a bachelor's in business management. I have an MBA and then I'm

about well I was about halfway through a PhD. >> Wow. Um, and um, I decided from at a

point that it was time for me to stop that. Once I started, you know, listening to you guys, I realize all I'm doing is continuing to borrow money and put myself in a deeper hole than I don't believe based on what I do for a living.

Uh, >> are you still golfing professionally?

>> I I am still doing it, but I'm doing it in a much different way to where I'm just doing stuff locally. Um, and if I can get to the point to where I'm, you know, playing at a high level to where I can make some good money doing it, then I will. Um, >> what kind of money do you make?

>> Uh, from from work?

>> Just Yeah, golfing, work, all of it.

>> Yeah, in general, I make about $120,000

a year. >> Good. Are you using your degree right now doing something full-time and then golfing on the side?

>> Yes, I'm working full-time uh just like as a district manager in retail. Um, and it allows me to have a little bit of flexibility to be able to practice and stuff like that during the days. And um, I also have um, a girlfriend I've been

with for a very long time and um, so she makes uh, she makes decent money as well. So that's how I'm able to even be able to still play some and participate some because you know I got to put up all that money myself for these events and stuff like that. So >> are you doing any coaching lessons right now?

>> I do just a little bit. I I I do this

program where I teach veterans um or people that have been wounded in the military. Um and the uh the PGA gives us

a little bit of money for doing those lessons. Um it's not a lot. I probably make like about 4,000.

>> Okay. But on top of that, could you start consistently coaching and doing private lessons because you can make good money doing that locally without having to travel?

That would be a great idea and it's something that I I think I need to figure out how I can just get started doing it. I mean, I'm certified to teach and I >> And you got an NBA so you know how to start a business.

>> That is true. Um, definitely true. And I

lost just so you guys will know. I lost.

I had uh when I was playing I was playing pretty well and my agent stole all of my money and he went to >> No, it's fine. It was my fault. I didn't need an agent, but I didn't know. When you're 21, sometimes you just don't know. shopping.

>> That's tough. >> He stole about a quarter of a million dollars from me and uh and so that was everything I had and then I just started borrowing to try and, you know, keep going and um and that's how I ended up here. So >> So you're back here. You you're back here. You have checked that the 80,000

you that you owe to the IRS is legit.

You actually do owe that money. Good news is you have a good income and a lot of ways that you can supplement that on top which George outlined. So from

there, kind of how can we help? Give us

a a closer look at what your real problem is. Is it just knowing what debt to pay first? Is it having the motivation to put the money on onto the debt and not spend it elsewhere? Kind of where's your pain point?

>> I mean, I'd say that's the biggest thing for me. I I find myself spending money on stuff that I don't feel like I should or even deserve to spend money on. Um, and I just got to make some better decisions. So, um I I was looking for I

just needed to talk to somebody to be honest. I'm just getting going on this and I really wanted to talk to somebody that could um at least maybe have been

through somewhat of it um to just help.

>> Hey, Jade Waraw's been there, man.

Listen, what was it? 468,000 you guys paid off >> when he said his student loans 220.

Yeah, we had 280 of student loans and our total amount was 460 not including our mortgage. So, I kind of feel I kind of feel where you're at. And hey, here's the good news for you, Scott. You're making far more money than Sam and I were when we got started. So, I really I

think for you, this is actually going to go a lot faster than you think it will.

But what I hear, George, is we need a

really strong why. Like, why are you doing this? Because that's going to be the thing that you connect to every time

you want to spend money on something else. Every times gets every times get hard. Every time your girlfriend says, "Let's take a trip to the Bahamas." Right? You need something to tie back to and go, why do I really why is it important for me to get this done?

What's it going to mean for my future?

What's it going to be mean for the life that I see myself living? And I think that it could be a good idea for you to sit down and spend some time kind of just plotting that out like where do you see yourself in 10 years? What does that look like? And be so detailed. Does it look like you having your own golf business where you're teaching lessons and I don't know, I'm just making something up. Does it look like you um I

don't know what it looks like. Only you can know that. But >> do you run a golf shop full time? I don't know. But the the math here is how much can I make and how little can I spend to create enough margin to tackle this without it taking a decade.

>> And so the math there is pretty simple.

If you can throw four grand a month at the debt, you're done a little over six years. If you can throw five grand at the debt, we're done in five years. And so, you can start to kind of get a picture of where you're going to be four or five years from now based on how much you're currently throwing at the debt.

And if you don't like the number you see, increase the income, decrease the expenses. And so, like Jade said, you need to have your I've had it moment. This I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired versus I guess it's time to pay off this debt. Might as well get get a start on this.

I want to feel some urgency here to where you go, I'm going to be working every single weekend. My girlfriend's not going to see me >> and maybe marriage is in the future and you guys combine incomes and that speeds up this whole process. >> Yeah. And I I listen >> I do want to take you to task just a little bit on the girlfriend thing because I don't know and you can stop me if I'm wrong because I I just want to be your friend here.

>> We are living together.

And so it kind of sounds like you're combining your monies a little bit and that's making it feel like you have more than you really have. And I have a feeling that if you were on your own in your own space with only access to your own money, I think you would feel the weight of this a little bit more or a lot more and it would cause you to get that fire lit under your butt like you need. >> So there might be part of this that >> do you see what I'm saying? put yourself in a position to win and to feel the things that you need to feel because you know you're an athlete like you're you're a competitor.

You know what it takes for you to compete at your highest level and sometimes it's that you know what I'm talking about George. You just need that push. That's >> I wouldn't get married as like a a debt payoff hack, but I would get married as an intentional life hack.

>> Interesting. Listen, we're going to finish it off with a hot take.

Get married and pay that debt.

All [Applause] [Music]

[Music] right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

We're here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and money. Let's get straight to the phone lines. We've got Nicole who's in Washington. Nicole, how can we help today? >> Hi. Um, yeah. So, my significant other

and I have been together for about 5 years. Um, not married. And I've been

contributing towards a mortgage for about four years now. And in addition to that, I have probably also contributed about $12,000 towards house remodel and

property updates. Um, and

we had kind of we we started the conversation that we need to figure out how to protect me financially since, you know, I'm putting money into the home and hadn't really got very far. And then to add to the complication, um, uh, my

sign significant other's father built a

shop on our property. And so now we have

a third party who has basically invested

in the property and we're really stuck as to kind of like where to go from here. >> Yikes. Okay. Well, here's the simplest answer. Get married.

>> Well, I would love for that to be the simplest answer. Um, >> what's stopping it?

Well, a couple of reasons. So, uh, he is

divorced. My significant father's divorce was finalized in 2022.

>> Okay. >> Um, and so he's a little like marriage

shy. His ex cheated on him and then he

like had to pay out a lot of money financially for the divorce. And >> did he go to counsel?

>> He did not. Um, he's not really a big fan of counseling. Um, >> does he want to get better? >> He's a fan of a renter with benefits.

So, uh, I think he can't have it both ways here. You're clearly resentful that you're paying toward this thing that you don't own, which adds a lot of risk to your life, >> cuz if you guys broke up tomorrow, you get nothing. >> And it's been 5 years. It's not like it's been 5 months.

>> I'm actually not resentful. I was fully aware that this might be the case going into the relationship. It was a we're we're both in our 40s. it was a actually a very thorough discussion that it might take him a while to get to the marriage um you know spot again but then there's also >> is there a cut off though cuz 5 years is a long time like let me tell you I admire your you have had patience here and I admire your ability to try to see it and walk in his shoes and understand it from his perspective I think that's great but I what I do think is missing is there's no time frame >> and there's no skin in the game on his part to actually heal and move forward and commit to this relationship other than you helping pay his bills and renovate his house.

>> Mhm. And I think you deserve a little more than that. >> Oh, he he no, he is totally on board that I need to be protected here.

>> So, how can we do that lawfully

um and not just a spitshake agreement?

>> Right. Well, so yeah. So, there's that there. So it's the my financial contribution but now there's also his father's financial contribution toward the property and I had started doing my research but like all these terms kept coming up and I started to get really overwhelmed by everything and also in my search is when I started stumbling across all the Ramsay stuff and so I was like maybe I just need to call >> Yeah, you're right. The father-in-law adding a shop to the property definitely threw a wrench in things. Um,

okay. Let's let's look at this as it is.

So, the house is completely in your boyfriend's name. Yes. >> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. And you guys, I guess it sounds like you're splitting the payment every month. >> Yeah. So, we basic everything's cut down the middle as far as uh standard expenses go. Mortgage, utilities, all that. >> Okay. And then you've also put $5,000

into a remodel.

>> Uh, no. About 12,000.

>> 12,000. So, >> yeah. >> Here's the thing. Like I'm I'm about to say something, but it's gonna sound ridiculous even coming out of my mouth.

I mean, if you wanted to create some kind of contract, you could get with a lawyer and say, "Here's the amount that I've put in." So, so thus far, and then you come up with a cut cutout, you know, cut off date of once I get to 50,000, here's what must happen, and you know, I also get my 12,000 back and you guys sign it and agree. But what kind of relationship is that?

Yeah. I don't like that's that's kind of where it gets complicated is because I I I don't want it to be just a strict like

>> then your other option is then your other option is you move out and you get your own place and say I live here which is a great idea by the way. I live here, you live there and >> when you're ready to commit, we'll get married and we'll move in together.

>> And mama, there's where your leverage lies right there.

>> That's where it is. >> Yeah, I guess. And it's when I say leverage, I'm not saying it in a negative way. I'm saying it in it's best for both parties. He's not ready to commit. And he said that and that is fine. Like I'm not mad at him. I get it.

That makes total sense. But hear him when he says he's not ready to commit.

And the best way to honor that is go, "Okay, I'm not going to put you in a situation where you're feeling forced to commit or worse where I'm not getting

honored in this relationship. So just live in your own space and date like normal dating people do.

Well, I mean, we like I said, we we've talked about this like he is committed to me like he is not looking to date anyone else. >> I understand that, but he can be committed to you. And if you're talking about what you said, which is how can we keep me safe and you guys both say, "Hey, yeah, we want to keep her safe. Uh Nicole matters here." The best way to do that is one of two things.

You either marry the person and you're protected under law or you live in your own space with your own money and you you go on dates and you hang out at each other's houses and you go to the movies and you date and he's committed to you in a dating relationship. Plenty of people date and they're committed and they don't live together. And by doing that, that's how they protect themselves. >> We're not questioning his his love for you.

We're just saying you're you're very committed financially to him right now and he's uncommitted relationally by law and that's what's putting you at risk right now. So, the question on the screen, how do my boyfriend and I protect our investments? You don't have any investments right now. All you're doing is paying someone else's mortgage and living with them.

Like, I'm not here to, you know, bash you in the head going, "We're not dinosaurs going, you got to move out today because of moral reasons." >> No, it's not moral. >> You want to do, but you're asking us how to protect yourself. It's either move out or get married or do this very complicated contract uh agreement that's going to just make this feel like a business partnership instead of love.

Mhm. >> But those are the only three things we could tell you to do. And I would recommend marriage if he can learn to heal and move forward and rebuild trust, which I feel like 5 years of you being who you are should have proven that by now. >> I think so. But at the same point, I wouldn't recommend marriage if we're 5 years in and he's still not ready to paint or get off the ladder. I would say, yeah, just just wait and see.

>> Backtrack it. And and I even hate to say backtrack because it's not even Nicole, I don't want you to think we're saying go backwards. And I love what George said. It's not even from a moral perspective. It truly is. How do we protect you? The way we protect your assets is to make sure your assets are spent on building your wealth. Because today, the truth is you're a single woman financially. You're not married.

So why would you pair your finances? He could high step it out of there tomorrow and you would be jacked. Cuz today, let's be honest, today you are jacked for the 122,000 and whatever you've put towards rent if you even if you decided to move on, right? So, there's a part of this where it's like, hey, let's cut our losses.

Like, let's cut this combination of money today and it's not out of malice or ill will or the fact that we're not going to be together and you just have your separate place. I don't know.

>> I hope he uh handles this conversation well. I do hope that he's able to heal and move forward with the relationship.

But >> and I wouldn't put it as an ultimatum.

Like I wouldn't do it like that cuz I don't think it is that. I think it's just >> But Nicole can only control what she can control and therefore that might mean moving out if he's just not ready.

>> Yeah, >> man. That's a tough situation, Nicole.

>> It is tough. >> Sorry going through that. >> Yeah, me too.

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Okay. something that George and I were talking about during the break. All right, James, permission to proceed.

>> Trust me, it's good. >> You have to say granted.

>> Okay, so during the break, Sam, uh during the break, George and I were talking about fund money, right? So fun money is an item that when you're married, it's on the budget, when you're out of debt and you know, through the baby steps through baby step three for sure. And it's yeah, it's it's a it's instead of the allowance, you know, people call in, they're like, I gave my girlfriend or I gave my wife an allowance. And we're like, no allowance, fun money, right?

Both spouses should have it as a line item on the budget. So Sam Warshaw, my husband, comes to me the other day. He says, "You know what?

>> Is it ethical? >> Is it ethical? Does it roll over? That's the first question. You roll over unused fun. >> Does unused fund money roll over is number one. PTO. Yeah, like PTO. Is it unused? Number two, saving it up. Is

there a moment that it's like, >> is it too much? >> Is it too much? And where do you keep it when you save it? Is like just in the sock drawer?

>> It depends how you do your budget. >> Yeah. The people need to weigh into this. Okay.

What do you think? Is there a moment where it's like, hey, >> I said he legally found a a loophole in the budgeting system in the matrix that if you had a hundred bucks a month and instead you want to not use any of it and spend 1,200 at the end of the year, >> why not? >> Be my guest. But the question is, is he really not spending anything those months?

Or is he somehow still finagling it in? >> No, the truth Sam most most months Sam does not spend his fund money at all to I spend it because I'm like it's laying there. I'll maybe I'll spend it. I think we need a new rule.

>> I think it can be rolled over. I think it should be rolled over. >> Okay. >> And then maybe when you hit a certain >> Sam, you just got freed, my man.

You're out of jail. You can do what you want now. Jay just said it. >> Get out of jail free.

Listen, am I setting all the other people free out there as well? >> Here's my hot take. If it was I would agree on a certain amount.

>> Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. >> So that it doesn't feel out of line, >> right? Cuz I could see him saving up for a long time and like buying like a golf cart or something. >> Okay. It could be 10 grand, 15 grand.

>> To which I would say, ah, don't spend your fun money on that. Like let's us save up together. >> A new line item. A,000 bucks a month.

In 12 months, we'll have 12 grand for that golf cart. >> 12 grand for a golf cart. Is that how much they are? >> You just told me that.

Now, here's the thing. Golf carts I found. Jade, you can go on Facebook Marketplace and find one for two grand. >> Listen, let's let's get more on that one.

>> But I know Sam Warshaw. He's pretty bougie. He wants it to be, you know, murdered out.

>> Yeah. Just, you know, blacked out. Like all Matt Black. I I think I can see him cruising around the neighborhood.

>> Wow. >> In his golf cart, heads turning, speakers bumping. >> Yeah, you could see that. Listen, it's something to talk about amongst yourselves with your married couple. You know what? We had a call around that like earlier this year. I'll try to dig it up and see what the discussion >> say. Yeah, this is interesting. I like it. Speaking of your budget, speaking of coordinating your money with your family, with your spouse, uh coordinating a financial peace university class is a great way to stay

motivated on your own baby steps journey while encouraging others. Uh if you don't know, financial peace university is a amazing class. It's a system that

we teach the baby steps through basically. And when you lead a class, you get e access to FPU lessons, financial peace university lessons. You get access to the premium version of Every Dollar, which is the allnew Every Dollar we've been talking about, plus additional content and perks free for the entire year. So, there's a lot that goes along with it.

>> That's our gift to you for coordinating the class. >> That's right.

So yeah, basically what that's saying is we don't just put you out there in the world to teach this class. We give you everything you need. We give you the book to teach from. We tell you literally word for word what you can say. Uh so if you feel a little bit nervous about it, you can follow the script. >> I don't do a lot of public speaking. That's okay. We're going to do the teaching part. You're going to coordinate and be the face in the class.

encouraging and supporting your group.

>> Perfect. Couldn't have said it better.

Uh so for this year, we've seen over $75 million in debt paid off and money saved

from FPU classes alone, which is pretty pretty crazy. So if you have a passion for serving others, this is a great way to help others experience the life change that you've seen for yourself. And George, I can tell you when Sam and I were paying off our debt, we coordinated FPU classes every year, sometimes twice a year. Um, and it is it's a great way to stay motivated, keep the material in front of you, and help others in the process. So, if you're interested, go to ramseolutions.comfpu

to get your first class set up, or you can click the link in the description, uh, if you're listening to this on YouTube or a podcast. Alrighty then,

let's go to Teresa in Iowa. What's up, Teresa? >> Hey, how are you guys doing today?

>> We're great. How can we help you?

>> Great. Well, um I owe over $40,000 in

credit card debt. Um and I am

contemplating taking a $50,000 withdrawal from my TSP account to pay

those off because the interest rates are so high on them and just give myself some relief and get a fresh start.

>> And I want to know what your opinion on that is. >> How much is the credit card debt?

>> It's over 40,000.

>> Woo. And it's several It's several cards. >> It is. >> Okay. So, if you were to line them up, smallest to largest, how many is it?

>> Uh, eight. >> Eight. Okay. And are they in

collections?

>> No.

>> Okay. And what's your income?

>> Uh, about 104 a year.

>> 104?

>> Yes. >> Are you single? >> I also uh I am single. Okay.

You also what?

>> Uh I also receive uh service connection from the military of about 2,300 a month. >> Okay. Great. So what's stopping you from just attacking the debt regardless of the interest? Because the truth is if you attack this with intensity, the interest isn't going to be all that much. If you let this ride for 10 years, yeah, that interest would rack up.

>> Um I have been doing that. I've paid off five cards already. Good. Um, but it

just seems like it's just >> it's like whack-a-ole.

>> Yeah. >> Are you doing the debt snowball method?

Just hitting the the smallest balance, making minimum payments on the rest, and attacking that little one. >> That's what I that's what I started doing. Um, and that's how I got the the five of them paid off. But the largest one that I have is um over $13,000. It

was for getting something done in my house that was necessary.

>> How much can you throw at these credit cards every month?

Um, I've been throwing uh about $2,000 a

month at them.

>> Where? So, I'm confused because you have 2,300 coming in that could go to the credit cards alone. So, you're spending all 104 on other things after tax.

>> Cor Well, yeah. On and by the time that

everything is said and done, I have enough left for gas and groceries and a

little bit um after that. But >> that's the part that worries me. You have a great income. uh >> in Iowa too.

>> So where are the bulk of your expenses going?

>> Right now the the credit cards.

>> Is that your is that 40,000 your only debt or is there other debt we should know about? >> Uh just well my house.

>> Okay. What's that? Tell us what your mortgage payment is every month.

>> Uh it's about $1,230 a month.

>> Okay. So that's not the problem.

>> Are you bringing home like six grand a month plus the 2,300 from the military?

>> Uh no. I I'm contributing to my TSP. Um

I just >> 12% and I also had taken out some loans

from TSP, so I'm paying those back as well. >> So you do have more debt.

>> I do have more debt. >> Okay. How much is is that? What are the TSP loans? >> Um there's one for 15 and one for 16,000. >> So let's play this out. You you've tried this scheme before and it hasn't panned out. So, what I don't want you to do is go into more debt to try to pay off other debt because we've realized that's not going to work.

>> Okay? >> And the other reasons are number one, it doesn't change the behavior that got us here. And so, I don't want to see you back in the same situation a year from now trying to, you know, again, play whack-a-ole taking out one debt to pay off the other debt. Number two, it also puts you at risk because you owe your employer back this money to this retirement plan and you're paying interest on that.

And number three, you're unplugging all that growth. So it may feel like, well, it's 40 grand, I'll pay it back. What you really are leaving on the table is hundreds of thousands of dollars if you would just let that money grow. So for those reasons, I would use that amazing income and figure out in a budget where is it going every month cuz you're making great money.

I would pause all retirement investing until you get these credit cards knocked out and you have savings in the bank. >> Yeah. We'll have Kelly pick up and we'll give you our allnew Every Dollar and we'll let you try it out for a couple of weeks totally for free. See how you like it.

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Today's question of the day is sponsored by Y refi. Private student loans and default can feel like a dead end. Trust me, I know. But why refi works with borrowers when other lenders won't, creating fixed rate plans tailored to your ability to pay. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey today. Remember that's the letter Y refy.com/ramsey and it's not available in all states.

Today's question comes from Sam in Texas. He says, "I'm 50 years old with a net worth of nearly $7 million. We have no debt and I'm retired. I want to buy a $100,000 Dodge Viper. My understanding wife is not against the idea, but I'm still hesitant. I've wanted a Viper since I was in high school and it passes the quote burn the money test. Should I pull the trigger and buy the car?

>> Dude, >> goodness. This is like the most humble brag question of all time.

>> I mean, come on.

>> Just buy the car. If you don't like it, sell the car if it you feel that guilty.

But this is a tiny portion of your net worth of your world. And that's how we look at these things as ratios.

>> The other parameter is you don't want more than half of your income in cars mostly because they're going down in value. And so it's not a smart move for your wealth building. You've already built a wealth. you're 50 years old. If you just let half of this money ride out there, you're going to have a very sizable net worth, you know, every seven years that money could double that's invested. So, if you think about that, when he's 64, he could have 14 million if most of this is invested.

>> You're going to be okay. The car is going to go down in value. It doesn't matter for your world. Just go buy the Viper and stop yapping about it.

>> Let me hit you with a tech a technicality. At what point net worthwise do you think the 50 cent 50%

equation dies out?

>> Oh, I think you know what I'm talking about. Yeah. Once your net worth is producing enough income to cover all of your expenses and more to where your retirement's covered, you're going to be just fine. Especially at 50, >> the the 50% rule can kind of drop off.

Yeah, I agree with you. Unless their lifestyle is astronomical and they're spending a million dollars a year, which I doubt they are, uh, just buy the car.

And what you'll realize is it's fun and it's still just a car and it didn't change your life. >> Uh, so go do it so that you can say you did it and it's a cool thing and you're going to be looking for heads to turn at the stoplight and uh, eventually other Dodge Viper fans will be looking over.

>> That's right. Very cool.

>> I don't know. I see fancy cars like that. We have a lot of wealth in this county that we're sitting in. Williamson County. >> It is the one of the wealthiest counties in America. I think it's in like number 11 or something. >> Yeah. 11. 11. You're right. >> So, I we see a lot of nice cars and I'm not It's like I'm unfazed by it. And the flashier the color, the more I go, how much attention are you looking for, man?

>> You want to know what though? And this I'm not a car person, but I'll be honest. Sometimes a car will drive by and my husband will be like, "Oh my gosh, like that's a brand new Tahoe or that's a brand new Cadillac." And I'm like, "It is it?" Unless it's like a

sports car, like a Lambo or like something that's really crazy. I typically can't even tell that it's brand new just by looking.

>> Take it to the car wash. You could fool me. >> Just Yeah. I'm happy for you, Sam.

You've done really well. You guys have no debt. You're retired at 50. You're doing incredibly well. Go buy the car.

You've earned it. >> Do it. Love it. All right.

>> That was easy. You got one win in today.

Sam. Sam, send us the photo when you when you get that Dodge Viper. >> Abs. What's your dream car?

>> Oh my gosh. I have no I think cars are just very utility. So for me it's just a new Tesla. >> A new Tesla. >> Yeah. All right. >> With full self-driving.

>> Oh gosh. >> I know. I trust >> you're on your own. >> I trust Here's the thing. I trust it more than my own driving.

>> Wow. That's saying something about you, George. All right, let's go. You trust the computers over your own self? Yeah.

>> Oh, man. What about the other people on the road? >> Yeah. Have you watched them? They all are on their phones. I dare you, Jade.

while you're on the interstate, go see how many people are just staring at their phones while driving. >> Oh, I've seen it. If >> Please let the computers take over because we clearly are not in a spot to do that. >> If you want to give yourself anxiety while you're driving on the highway, just think about what must be orchestrating at all times. The fact that we're not just all crashing into each other is pretty crazy. It's really a miracle. All right, let's go to the phone lines. We got Judy who's in Michigan. Hey, Judy.

>> Hi. Hi, George Jade. Hey, I have a quick

question. Uh, we've been listening to Dave Ramsey since probably 93 94. We had

bought a 40acre parcel in Northern Michigan as our vacation property >> and we've achieved the millionaire status. >> Kids are out of the house and uh now we're retired and we want to invest like

306,000 into getting a vacation home built on our property. We have a an existing home there, but it's it's beyond repair. So, we're going to have that knocked down, build a new home on it, and we're just very uh anxious about do we want to get rid of our our cushion of money that's

in our uh money market account and invest it in this home. I mean, I think of it as an investment, not a purchase.

>> Yeah. >> And uh we're due to sign papers next

week. And I'm just thinking, what do you guys think? Well, I let me challenge the language because if it's just a toy for you guys, it's not making you money.

It's probably costing you money once you factor in insurance and property taxes.

Yes, there there'll hopefully be some appreciation, but you're not selling it.

>> Just free yourself and go, we've earned it. We've worked really hard. So, how much cash are we talking out of your total nest egg?

>> Well, we have about 1.1 million net

worth. >> Okay. Uh, we're going to be investing probably about 306,000 into this new

build.

And >> what's your current house worth?

>> Our existing home. Yes. 250.

>> All right. And so you have about half a million, a little more sitting in retirement accounts or other savings.

>> Yeah, we have uh investment accounts into a mutual fund.

>> So the question is, can you guys still retire if you deplete it by $36,000?

Will your retirement nest egg still create enough income to cover your expenses in retirement if you remove that $300,000 that was growing?

>> I'm thinking it will. I mean, we bring in between uh social security and our pensions about 80 grand a year.

>> Great. >> And we have uh about 250,000 in our

mutual funds.

>> That's outside of retirement. So, you're not even using you you're living basically only off social security and pinching. You're not even touching a nest egg. >> No, not even. >> How old are you, too?

>> Uh, I'm 67, soon to be 68. He's already

68. >> Okay. And you're going to use, let's say, a 306 out of how much of your

retirement?

>> Our retirement? Well, I just have my net

worth as uh >> cuz you guys have the cash. You're going to use cash to do this, >> correct? We're buying cash. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, if you let's say you let the other let's call it, I don't know, $400,000, $300,000, >> right? >> So, if you just let $300,000 sit in there until you're call it 75, you're contributing nothing to it, you would still have about $600,000 by then,

right? if you didn't touch it.

>> So, you would double your money from 68 to 75 if you didn't contribute anything, but you also didn't touch it.

>> So, the question is, can you survive off social security, pension, and $600,000 to cover you for, let's say, future health care expenses and whatever else, inflation? I think the answer is yes.

>> Do you Okay, cuz that's the scary part.

>> Is everybody in good health? Are you healthy? >> Yes, both of us are healthy. It's just at our age, it's like, do we want to get rid of that cushion?

I mean, because we've always been happy with this cushion of money. >> It's nice to have the cushion. The one thing that makes me think, and I'm not saying that this is enough to change my mind, but the vacation house is on property that that you already own, which means, let's pretend something crazy did happen. It's not like you would just up and sell this property to an outsider because it's on your personal property.

Uh, correct.

right? parcel it out if you had to one day. >> I'm thinking if things went really sideways, we could always just sell the property with the house on it.

>> Okay. >> And have that money, >> just that piece of property. >> I keep saying this is an investment for us, not so much a purchase.

>> But again, it's not going to make you guys money. So, I'm just scared you're going to go, "Well, we're trading one investment for another." Well, one is actually growing and it's going to double every seven years. the other might grow at three or 4% and you're paying the property taxes and insurance and maintenance and upkeep on it. So, I would sit down with a financial adviser.

Do you have one right now that you trust? >> No, we don't. >> Okay. I would jump on to ramseolutions.com, click on smartvester pro. I would have a professional sit down with you guys. Lay it all out. Lay out all the scenarios to give you confidence cuz this is a big purchase. >> It is big. >> I would not trust just a 5minute radio call to go be like, "Yep, boom. We're going to >> drop half our retirement on this thing." I would uh get some more info on that.

But I think you're on the right track. I think you're going to survive either way. And I think it's time to enjoy some of the wealth you've built.

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Your Ramsay Show scripture and quote of the day, Matthew 7:16. By their fruit, you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes or figs from thistles? No, they don't. Trisha Cunningham said, "The individual who says it is not poss. The individual who says it is not possible should move out of the way of those doing it." I like that. Listen. Get out the way. Get out.

She went ludicrous on them. >> Luda. All right. Full Luda. We love to see it. >> Love it. All right. Hannah's in Wisconsin. Hannah, how can we help today? >> Hi. I'm calling um I'm a working

stay-at-home mom currently. And I am

working on baby step one and trying to

think of any possible way I can make that happen a lot faster than what seems to be going on right now.

>> Yeah. What do you think's the holdup? Is it you're putting the money aside and you're just having to pull it right back out? What's happening?

>> I think Yeah. So, I think between bills

and income, limited income, that's the

main reason. But, um there's I mean, I

usually go into town and work with the kids as much as I can. And then when my boyfriend comes home to keep the kids, I work in the evenings. So, I'm going in and out of town twice a day. Sometimes I

already sell what I can. Um, eBay,

Facebook, >> local Facebook groups.

>> Um, one of the things I guess I know that you guys frown upon

um like children savings. I have a few piggy banks that are not earning any kind of interest, just change in a piggy bank, but I didn't know if that's >> When you say kids piggy banks, >> When you say kids piggy banks, are you really saying like, "Hey, I've got children. and they've got money in their piggy bank. Maybe I can tap into that.

Is that what you're saying? >> A ceramic piggy bank you're going to hit with a hammer and get the change out to try to hit your baby step one.

>> Literally, >> listen. Yeah. >> I wouldn't touch the kids money. I mean, what is it? >> It's like $1,000 in there or is it like 20 bucks, 50 bucks? >> Um, well, there's ch there's, you know, cash and change and I don't I don't know. I just kept stockpiling change and any gift money. I guess it's combination of everything in there. So, it wasn't money that they got from a gift or worked for. It's money. Hey, I have spare change. I'll drop it in this.

>> Yeah. >> For them. Do they know about it?

>> No. >> Oh, listen. I might get involved in that. Here's the thing. Let's Let me Let me frame this. >> I just don't know that CoinStar is going to be the solution to our Baby Step One problem. There's something bigger at hand here. >> There is. And George is right. Um there's three things that we need to kind of hit on. Number one, any the equation is always going to be the same.

Whether it's for saving money or paying off debt, hitting a financial goal, it's income, right? You have to have a certain amount of money coming in and it's outgo. You have to cut back on the money that's going out. Something tells me you're at a barebones budget. I don't know that you are. Are you?

>> Yeah, pretty much. I mean, we don't we don't have internet. We don't have cable. We don't have >> Okay, then that means it's an income problem. That means it's an income problem because most people, here's kind of a parameter and you can kind of gauge yourself on this. Most people do this, George, in 30 days or less. Like baby step one should be a 30-day kind of deal where you're going so you're like a flash, like a streak of hot, right?

You're selling everything. You're working crazy hours. You're doing this in an extreme fashion to get this done in 30 days. It shouldn't be a months and months ordeal. And the fact that it is that makes me think you guys are really low on the income. So tell us about that.

>> So I used to um I have a four-year-old

and a 2-year-old. They used to be in daycare. I had a very well-paying job at the time and it daycare was getting out

of control as far as cost. Um, it was $510 a week for my two kids to be in daycare. And my net was a and without

knowing the exact details of recalling the retirement contributions and stuff, I was netting about 200 bucks a month after all my expenses. So, decided to

quit my job and stay at home to try to save money. Um, so that kind of got me to where I'm at right now. >> But you said you have a boyfriend. So, are you guys living together and he's covering the expenses?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I also bring in about 30,000 a year, too. Um, >> I think that's part of the This is complicated relationally, and it's making it complicated financially.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. The 30,000 a year is is tough.

Like, that's going to be tough to live on. Um, >> yeah. >> And how many kids? I'm sorry.

>> Two. >> Two kids. How old are they?

>> Four and two. >> Four and two. Okay. >> So, are you bringing home like two grand a month right now?

>> Yeah, that's the goal. I've I do, you

know, your all your delivery independent

contractor type. I was on like three apps at one time just to continuously have offers coming in to go go

>> when I'm in town with the kids and after. >> Now, you're juggling a lot. I mean, staying at home plus doing all that and making 30 grand is impressive, but making two grand and trying to save up one of those while covering all the expenses on your own, that is tough.

Yeah. So, what is what's the future look like for you and boyfriend?

>> Well, hopefully marriage. Um, and once

the kids are back uh school age,

hopefully going back to work. One of the biggest hiccups that about 2 years ago we bought a car that were underwater and now we owe about 10,000 more than it's worth and it also needs a lot of repairs. So then I sit there and scratch my head. Do I save up money to get the repairs done >> just to sell it?

>> Because it's going to be repairs plus the difference. >> Yeah. >> Just to get it sold. >> How much debt do you have total?

>> 39,000.

>> Okay. And you're able to make minimum payments on all of those debts and cover all of your bills right now?

>> Yes. >> You're not behind. You're not going into debt anymore.

>> Correct. >> Okay. That's good. >> So you're just sort of breaking even every month without much to throw at your baby step one. Very minimal. Very minimal. But that's why the the baby step one's taking forever, I guess. >> But think about it. You're you're trying to pay off 39 grand, making 30 grand a year.

>> The math isn't going to math as long as you're a stay-at-home mom without a

spouse that's also supporting you financially. >> Hannah, >> his income, too, is factored into all that. >> What were you doing before you were doing all of the Instacarts and delivery apps? What were you doing before that or that has that kind of just been what you've been doing as work?

>> No, in October I left my job at Fredo.

>> Okay. And what were you making there?

>> Um, between 60 and 62.

>> Okay. So, that's that's our goal. We got to find something that you can do to get you back up to that earning potential that you had before, which I think could be even further beyond that. Um, but I

think it's going to cause you to have to get out of your comfort zone a little bit and really stretch for this because the truth is there are work at home positions. There are things that you can do with a flexible schedule that can earn you more than $30,000. So, I think that's where you're I think that's your homework. I think that's where your laser focus is going to be is what can I do with the time that I have because the kids they're back in daycare now or are you taking care what's what's the current state?

>> No, they're not.

>> Okay. >> And then I have another two years with the little one before she starts school.

>> Okay. And the boyfriend or whoever's in your life, is there anyone in your life that you can that can provide some bit of child care in the day?

>> We're 2 to four hours away from any family and we don't we're both new to

the area. We don't know very many people. >> What caused you to go out there?

>> Um distance from the city. We're We're not city folk.

>> Okay. >> We like to Yeah, we like to be out in the in the sticks, as they would say here. >> Well, there's part of that that you're cutting off work opportunities for you.

You're cutting off, like you said, relational opportunities to get help in the areas that you need. So, this is a

complex problem and I think it's going to c like you need to sit down and have some real discussions about where the priority lies because if you call in the show and say, "Hey, I can't save $1,000." And then we find out half the reason is there's no jobs around here.

There's no family to help with daycare around here. Hey, but we like living out in the sticks. Do you see what I'm saying? Something has to shift in that priority. Um, >> we need a different variable here to change your result. So, are >> you recommend me going, you know, one of the things I discussed was going back to work, but we felt like we would be back to square one. All most of the income would just be absorbed with daycare.

>> Not if you can get the 60,000 that you were getting at Fredo Le before. Because why did you stop that job?

>> You see what I'm saying? >> Well, I think like I said with without me just me recently just catching on to

Dave Ramsey's methods, I think I was probably contributing too much to my 401k. You know, you were doing too much at >> Yeah. taking home more.

>> We now know that you have the capacity to earn, right? 60 65,000. And that's

really what you need to be looking for.

Listen, I trust you can do this. All right, guys. That does it for the show today. Thanks for hanging out with us. Remember, there's ultimately one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 248. You Can't Build Wealth While Buried In Payments | August 8, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:13:05 |

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we

help people, build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing

relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show on the Ramsey Networks. Ramsay

personality and my daughter. She's my co-host today. Open Phones at8255225.

Emily is in Missouri. Hi, Emily. How are you? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. Well, here's my situation. Um, I

started my job at 19 and I invested in

the 401k that the company has and I

married my husband when I was in my late 30s. My and now I'm in my early 50s. My

mom wants to downsize, but she

I want to buy her a house so she could free up the equity in her house and be able to retire cuz she's in her mid70s.

And my hus I want to do it to where I

kind I want to pull it out of my 401k and buy this, but I also want to

not stir up problems with my current husband, you know, because he's financially selfish.

He likes to spend the money. He doesn't.

I asked if she can move in with him with us. He said no. I said, "Let's go find

another house big enough for all of us." He said, "No." I said, "Then fine. I'm going to buy a house for her." He said, "No." And I really want to do this for her so she can retire with her. She could she

could retire. I don't want her have to work for the rest of her life. So, I want to know how I can do this. if I can pull money from my 401k, put it into her

uh trust, and then buy the house through her trust so it's protected because I would hate for something to happen to me and then him kick her out of a home that I purchased for her.

>> You know how dysfunctional this sounds?

>> It's so dysfunctional. He has so many red flags and I can't do anything because I'm in love with his children because I don't have any children. I'm in love with his children and his grandchildren. So,

so that's where we're at. >> Okay.

All right. Well, um I think what you're

trying to accomplish is noble. How

you're trying to accomplish it is whacked. >> Yeah, I know. >> Okay. So, uh number one, if you pull money out of your 401k and you're in your 50s, you're going to pay a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. So, it's going to be like borrowing money at 35% interest. No, that would be stupid.

We're not doing that. >> Uhuh. >> Not borrowing money. You wouldn't get a mortgage at 35% interest for to buy your mom a house. That's dumb. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, you're not doing that. That's that's >> okay. >> Your husband's smart. That's not being selfish. Um it is possible that he

doesn't want to her to live with you because he doesn't like her.

>> Yeah. Oh, that's true. >> That's not necessarily being selfish.

It's just having good boundaries.

>> Yeah.

I mean, I like Winston Cruz, Rachel's husband, a lot, but I don't think he would let me live with them.

>> Yeah, I would I would let his dad live with us for Yeah. No, I get it.

>> I mean, that that's that's okay. That's not It doesn't make your husband either >> selfish, right? Right.

>> Right off the bat. There's a possible other scenarios. And the other thing you don't want to do is you don't want to

um be deceptive with your spouse. That's not ever going to lead to a positive situation, right?

That's going to end up in that's going to end up in ashes, particularly on a huge purchase.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> So, her home is worth what?

>> Uh she could probably sell it for, I

don't know, 280, >> maybe 300. >> And it's paid for.

>> Uh no, it's not. She Yeah. What does she

owe? >> She owes 80,000.

>> Okay. So she could get a couple hundred grand to go do something with if she downsized. >> Instead, you were wanting her to invest that to live on. >> How old is your mom?

>> 72. >> Okay. Is she still working?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And she's taking social security probably. >> Yes. Not much though. My dad we they own businesses my entire life and so he didn't think to pay in for her, but he made sure to pay in for himself.

>> Okay.

Man, Emily, I don't know. I'm a little speechless. I'm not gonna lie.

>> It is. >> Well, and I just wor I'm like I I'm just

concerned for the health of

obviously your marriage, but just your

um just just your enjoyment of life. I'm

like, you know, when you're in a situation that you feel it sounds like you're staying in because of his kids and you love his kids, even though >> you could still have a relationship with them even if this marriage, you know, didn't work. I don't want I don't want you to divorce him, but I do want to see that part of your life healed.

>> The proper answer now you the way you presented it was he said no. He said no.

He said no. That's not a proper >> answer. He He doesn't even want to mow her yard. He'll go and mow his 90-year-old father's lawn, but he won't mow hers. So, she >> That's irrelevant to this discussion.

Okay. I might not want to mow her yard either. She might at me about it.

So, >> that's true. >> You know, there may be re legitimate reasons for that, too. So, but aside from that, >> the um he he it's possible that he's looking at and saying, "Okay, moving in." He he may have not done a good job explaining why he said no, or you're not giving us that information, one of the two. But he may have said, "No, I don't want her to live with us.

I don't think that that's going to go well relationally. She and I don't get along very well." That's a good reason for a no. No, I don't think you ought to buy her a house coming out of your 401k. And by the way, Emily, I just told you that.

>> Okay, I told you why, but I also told you no. >> And so, um, you know, I could be painted with the same brush after this call.

um, you know,

I'm going to go back to what Rachel said. I'm going to go back to let's start solving this within the framework

of a positive relationship in a

marriage. >> Yeah. >> A positive way to approach the relationship in the marriage. Honey, this really means a lot to me. I

understand you don't want to live with us. >> I I understand that. Okay, that's fair.

Totally. >> I understand you don't want me to take the money out of the 401k. And Dave explained to me that it's a huge cost.

And so now I understand why you don't want to do that. but this is very important to me and I do have some money here and um you know help me figure out

a way to do this and instead of like I'm going to hide this from him and I'm going to put it in a trust where he can't do something about it later and >> if you're going to do all that crap you should be divorced. >> Yeah. Well, you're just I mean you're enemies at that point. I mean there's nothing about you're working together.

It's just I don't know. And and my question would be too I mean they may not even have the money >> to go Yeah. They may not be able to if the only way you're able to is to cash on your >> That's a possibility, too. I mean, Sharon may Sharon may want to do something. Winston may you may want to do something and Winston looks at you and says, "No, we don't have the money

without cashing in a 401k legend and no, I don't want Dave living with us." And you know that that's okay.

I mean, these are good. That that's that's all fair. >> That's what a little bit of what I'm like I'm trying to discern to help Emily because she's obviously one that called.

>> Yeah. >> Who wanted it. But I feel like everything that was said I I mean more to him of like yeah there's something here. Now granted we want to help >> help your parents. I mean there's a level of honoring them that is wonderful. Um so I want to get to the root of why their relationship is so terrible. Right. If Winston and mom had a terrible relationship, >> you know, there's something >> you're going to have a hard time talking Winston and giving money then. Yeah.

>> Right. So um I don't know.

>> Yeah. I would not do your plan, Emily.

I'll say that much. Um, >> but I I didn't hear a way for you to do this. I can't help you with this. What I will tell you is if I were in your shoes, I would work on working with your husband and finding a way to do it by him understanding this is very important to you.

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Hunter is in Michigan. Hi Hunter. How are you? >> I'm doing good. How are you Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh so I got some debt and also I got specifically one debt I have a question about. Um, when I was younger, I'm only

21 now, but when I turned 18, freshly 18, my mom kind of had me cosign on a loan for her for a car.

>> Good. >> Yep. The car cuz she has terrible

credit. Um, and >> you didn't have any?

>> Yeah, I know. I didn't I didn't have no credit and I didn't know anything about finances at all back then. Um, but uh

she had me cosign on the loan and then the car got repoed and now the loan is

on my credit as well and I don't really know. I don't know if I should just pay it or if uh I should or if there's any

other way to kind of get out of it.

>> Wow, Hunter, that's financial abuse by your parent.

I'm sorry. It's completely immoral.

Um, so do you have any information on how much the uh deficit amount is that they're trying to collect after the repo?

>> It's about 10,000 is how much is left, but um the but it's been like a year or

two since it got took taken. So it's been to collections by now. So, I don't really know what to do there cuz I know you >> your your damage to your credit report is going to stay there. The only thing we can do is limit the damage by settling your portion of the deficit.

Okay? >> Yeah. >> And so what it amounts to is after you finish what I'm going to tell you to do, and it's going to take you a little bit of effort, but after you finish this, it will show that you have been repoed because you have, and that you settled the deficit. So, it's like a bad debt that you settled, >> right? >> Okay. Which is better than just a bad debt.

Like way better.

>> Okay. On as far as your credit bureau goes. All right. Not that worried about your credit. I don't want you doing this kind of stuff again. And hopefully you stay away from your mother when it comes to financial transactions.

>> Um, >> yeah, I've definitely learned my lesson.

>> Yeah. So, uh, do you have any contact

with the company that is trying to collect the deficit?

Uh, they've sent me some letters, but other than that, no. >> Perfect. Okay, pull that letter out.

It's got a phone number on it. Call them. >> Okay, >> we'll do. All right, >> let me give you some real clear information. All right, their job is a

game.

Their job is to screw with you when you get on the phone. Okay, your job is

first you give them no information

except that phone number which you could block if you need to later. Okay, got

>> and then you tell them the truth. Okay,

I was 18 years old. My mother asked me to co-sign this. I had no idea I was

doing it and your company let me to be taken advantage of. I'm considering suing you.

Okay. >> In other words, we're going to start with the offense instead of a defense.

But I think I'm not going to I think it would be cheaper if as a 21-year-old

who's broke and you can't get anything from me cuz I don't have anything. It

might be cheaper for both of us, if we just settled my portion of this. You can

chase her for whatever you want to chase her for, but I want to settle my portion of the $10,000. I have $1,000 I'll give

you for that.

>> Gotcha. >> Okay. You're probably going to be able to pull that off and about six conversations putting up with abusive,

moronic individuals on the other end of the phone. And you'll probably be able to negotiate that for $2,000 or less. my

portion of this settled. Remember this

phrase, settled in full. And I've a got

to have that in writing.

B, you will not have electronic access to my personal checking account. I will wire you the money or send you a prepaid $1,000 debit card.

Okay? >> Okay? >> Because if they have access to your checking account, they're scum. They'll clean you out. They lie.

The collections business is filthy.

>> All right? So you and they lie, so you have to have it in writing. An email is fine. >> Okay? Do not give them your social security number. Do not give them their place of employment. Do not give them anything that will make it easier for them to collect this debt. And every time they start being abusive, say, "Okay, you have 5 seconds to stop that or you're going to get a dial tone. You want to hear a click. Stop that.

click, >> okay? >> And just hang up on them and call them back the next day. Last I talked to over there started abuse. Don't try that or I'll give you the click.

Instead, let's have a conversation. And you just got to have this aggressive,

abrasive approach. Um, you don't have to

be mean or nasty or cuss them or yell at them. It doesn't do any good. They're going to try that with you because they know if they can get you afraid or angry, you will be irrational and give them money.

So, their goal is to try to get your pulse rate up when they got you on the phone. You following this? It's a game.

It's a game. And you're going to be cool like you're playing a hand of Texas.

Hold them.

>> Okay? Just chill. All right?

>> And if you feel your pulse rate going up, just hang up.

Do it another day. Okay? >> Take two breaths. Don't don't drink two cups of coffee before you call them.

>> You know what I'm saying? This is this is a real You've got to play this all the way through. 21 years old and you've been screwed and I'm trying to help you walk through this. All right, >> Hunter, do you have money? Do you have anything saved? >> I I don't I just started a new job as a

truck driver. I just got my CDL. I'm like within I'm in my first week of being by myself as a truck driver. Okay, >> good.

You'll have $1,000 pretty quick then. >> Yep. >> So, you can offer him $1,000 by the end of the month. >> And >> what percentage of a cosign though is his >> it technically it's what's called joint and servo.

He's technically liable for the whole thing. >> Right. That's what I was assuming.

You know, that that's the point. And besides that, I kind of want to turn them loose on her >> for doing this. >> Do you have relationship with her, Hunter? Do you know where she is?

>> Uh yeah, I talk to her all the time. I just don't give her money or anything like that anymore. >> Yeah. And there's no chance she's going to get get this settled and get it off your also. >> That's what I'm wondering if like where she is in this process at all. >> She's broken out of control and has been for a long time. Yeah, she she works at a fast food restaurant and she's behind on her rent and all sorts of stuff. She don't have money at all.

>> Oh man, I'm so sorry, Hunter.

>> Yeah, but you this I'm asking you to do something that's over your pay grade, but I think you can do it. I think you're sharp.

>> All right. >> And listen, what you do, go back and listen to this episode and write this stuff down in writing. No information.

Be tough. hang up. No access to your

checking account. Okay? And that's the that's the process you deal with. So, you're stonewalling. You're building a wall around you and then you're just throwing offers over the wall and until

they pick one of them up, you just keep throwing offers. >> Well, and the positive thing is that it's been in collections for what, two years, he said. So, at this point, >> they they have and if they looked down and saw your age, they think they've got zero probability of collecting this cuz statistically they do. >> Yeah.

statistically the chance >> well and he has no money right now so the truth is yeah there is none but I don't want him starting I don't want him to be hassling the truck driving company him lose his jobs because they found out where he works right >> and they'll do that >> it's illegal but they do it all the time >> so you know you've got to just set up these walls and and the reason I know these people are scum in this case is because they took the co- signature of an 18-year-old for his mother who was broke and didn't pay bills this is how you know this company is scum.

>> But it's probably is it that company still though, >> even if it isn't, they bought that paper and they know what they bought. They know exactly what they bought. >> They know what kind of paper they got into. >> And so, you know, not all collectors are scum.

All credit card collectors are 100% of them.

misbehave and break federal law pretty regularly. There's like a hometown collections company in your small town that's trying to collect medical bills or something. They're probably okay.

Mhm. >> Most of them don't violate the law every day. But there's the Federal Fair Debt Collections Practices Act that gives clear understanding what you're allowed to do, not allowed to do. None of that has entered into this conversation yet, right? But he's walking into he's walking into a haunted house and stuff's going to jump out around every corner.

[Music]

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[Music]

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If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you can't get ahead, join one of our free every dollar trainings. is there's new trainings every week this month and they're all hosted by one of the Ramsey personalities. Either George Camel, Jade Washaw, or Rachel Cruz. Rachel, when are you doing the next one?

>> I'll have to look at my schedule. I'm only looking a day at a time right now. It's back to school week, so my mind is mush. Probably next week, though. Yeah.

It's usually like once a week or every other week we all kind of switch off. Yeah, >> that's about right. Because there's three of you and we're doing >> I could have made it up, but I'm being honest. >> Yeah.

Well, it's okay. It's that it's gonna be soon. There it is. One of one of you will be on there every time we do it.

So, uh, they show you how to stick to a budget and find an average of $9,560 of new money margin laying around to throw at this stuff.

There's stuff in there. >> Well, and what's great about it is the digital coaching part when with the new every dollar, what you're signing up for and going through this process, they're able to see, I mean, via the digital world, which is amazing. It's like, oh, hey, here's this, this, this, this, like I mean, >> list it out for you. You'll do those five things, you got 9,000 bucks.

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Did I mention that?

Joyy's in Pittsburgh. Hey Joy, what's up?

>> Hi, I'm doing good. How about you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> That's great. Um I am calling because um

I'm a newlywed. Uh my husband and I were married in January. Um however,

unfortunately recently we've been having some marital troubles. Um he's currently in impatient rehab. Um I discovered his alcoholism back in June. Um and so right

now I don't know when he's coming home.

Uh my biggest um hope and my heart's desire is he gets his head on straight and he does everything he needs to do.

But I was curious to get your advice on how to change our philosophy for our marital finances when that time does come that he does come home. Um I would

normally take that perspective. I know you often advocate that what's his is mine, what's mine is his. >> No, you don't do it in this case. Ours bucket. >> Yeah, you don't do it in this case. >> Yeah, that's what I anticipate. So, in that stages of recovery, >> for a while, are you doing Alanon?

>> I am. Yeah. >> Good. Okay. And so, you got somebody in your corner talking to you about dealing with an addict in your home. And so, um,

>> what what you've got to do in the overall picture, and I'm not a coach or I'm not a PhD in counseling like Dr.

John Deloney, but for 30 years, we've helped people with financial problems, and 100% of addicts have financial problems. So, I've worked with a lot of it. Okay? A lot.

>> More than I've learned, more than I wanted to learn. So, here's a couple things that people in that world say all the time. As long as he is dealing with an addiction, he's a manipulative liar.

>> Yes, he is. >> Okay. And until we get the addiction in the rearview mirror or the bulk of it in the rearview mirror, depending on your view of addictions, um he he can't be

trusted. And so he can't handle money.

>> I know >> he doesn't get to handle any of the money. >> Okay. But he does get the information.

>> He does get the dignity of speaking into it. >> You go over it with him. you show him what you're doing. Um, you say, "This is what our money came in and here's what we're doing with our money. Here's the budget. He can participate in that, but he doesn't have access to the money."

>> Mhm. >> Period.

Because I for his sake cuz it'll it's

one because if he has no money, it's going to be harder to buy alcohol.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. He doesn't get any money. um he he he's you're taking care of him, but you have you know he can have he can see that what the balances he can look at the everything with you help you make the decisions and then as trust is rebuilt then obviously he rebuilds in in several

areas of your lives um he can be trusted

over time and trust is earned with time

>> there's a direct correlation and so I came home from rehab and she doesn't trust me. She shouldn't.

>> Okay. It was six years ago I came home from rehab and I've been dry. She should.

>> Mhm. >> You see the difference? And so yeah, that that he's been, you know, you get you get your 10ear coin, your 5-year coin, whatever, then then Yeah. And game on. So, um, we want to walk with him and

help him, but also we want to cut off the the supply. Uh, and that means he just doesn't have access to money in the near term. But he again does have the full dignity as a partner in your marriage of speaking into it, having an

opinion. None of that's invalid unless he's drunk.

>> His brain still works.

Okay. And so >> Mhm. >> Uh it just gets drunk sometimes. So but uh but if he's sober sitting at your kitchen table and y'all are looking at this and he has an opinion about what we ought to do with our money, that's valid. But as far I'm just talking about physical access to any funds. You know,

take him off checking account.

>> Okay? >> It all goes into your name and you handle it until we get some comfort

here. All right? And uh and you can guys

can establish some st you can talk about it with the counselors, you can talk about it with Alanon, he can talk about it with his sponsor, he can talk about it with his counselor, uh he can talk about it with whatever follow-up he's got with rehab on when is appropriate to begin to, you know, let him back in and rejoin in more of a uh more of a a

healed marriage money situation. Does

that does that all sound fair?

>> Yeah, that completely makes sense to me.

um particular like right now he's been in a pivot career-wise. So it's even the last few months I've been the only income. So that's definitely where a lot of tension has been for us um in terms of that. So it even >> How long did y'all date before you got married?

>> Uh we we were dating for a couple years, but I'm pretty sure that I he just I 90%

of the drinking was when I was asleep or didn't know about it. So I >> Wow. Complete closet guy. >> Really good at hiding that. >> Yeah, he's very closet guy. So I I'm pretty sure I don't know. sober version of my husband because I don't know, you know, >> how's he been doing? How's he been doing in rehab?

>> Um, it sounds like he he's improved. Um, there was a bunch of drama a couple weeks ago with him trying to leave. Um, but he he ended up going back. So, I think now that he went back, he's he it sounds like he's more focused, but it's it's early to know.

It's, you know, it's we'll kind of >> You sound very counseling. You sound very solid and confident >> in how to process this and where the boundaries go. >> You sound pretty strong. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. We're going to do um I've talked to them with the boundaries and like we'll do marriage counseling, but it's going to be when he gets 90 days, 100 days sober or whatever it is because um they have a really good family programming at the rehab we're at. So, they great they've talked through the boundaries and empowered us a lot on that side. >> Yeah.

Yeah.

>> uh, you know, we always have an asterct and this is it, Troy. This is the perfect example of it. And so there is um, yeah, a higher responsibility for you to protect yourself in it, right?

And if um and if sadly you know it it it

doesn't come to fruition and he doesn't choose a path of sobriety and and you have to make a harder call right um you you will have more of the means and ability to be able to do that too. So there is this level of protecting your current state and then also the unknown of the future that's really I mean I'm assuming it's kind of left up to what he's choosing for his future, right? Is going to impact >> uh if you move forward or not, which is just so heartbreaking.

>> Two family members with a 10-year coin, >> you know, not not immediate family but yeah >> but u and real proud of them. They're heroes. >> That's that's a hard run. I was talking to an author that wrote a book about 12step and he said those 12step meetings are more like church than church sometimes. So it's it's powerful.

>> Hey Joy, I tell you, speaking of that, speaking of that, Henry Cloud has a great book that will help y'all. Look up this and order it on Amazon right now.

It's called Trust >> by Henry Cloud. How to lose it, how to reestablish it, and what are the steps.

It's really, really good. It's a great book on trust. Henry Cloud.

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>> My or this today's question comes from Susie in Michigan. My husband and I have recently become debtree, including our house. My siblings know this and have started coaching their toddlers to call us Big Money. They encouraged their children to say things like, "Hey, Big Money, we want to go to Disney so you can go and pay for so can you go and pay for us?" We thought it was a joke at first, but now it happens all the time.

We've told them that we prefer to be called aunt and uncle, but nothing changes. for family gatherings. It's assumed that we will host the celebrations at our house with no offers to contribute. I don't mind having people over, but I feel like this behavior is disrespectful. How do we approach this? Some of my siblings are very frugal. >> Fragile. >> Fragile. Thank you. I was going to say frugal uh emotionally wise and blow things out of proportion.

They're fragile. >> A >> I wish they were frugal. I wish the other word was true, but it's not.

If you're fragile and you send your kids in to say stupid things to adults, you better be expect to have your little fragile broken.

>> Okay, we're probably going to have different approaches to this situation.

>> Yeah, it's not the kid's fault, but yeah, I'm probably going to sit down with sis and go, "Hey, your kids being a brat. Stop it." Seriously.

>> Yeah, it's going to probably be a >> different approach.

>> Okay, Rachel, what's the nice version? I yeah I mean I would sit down and say hey y'all I know this is funny and you know you think it's cute and all of it but also I don't want this to become a pattern of who we are in their lives and it has been and so we would love for

them to stop calling us big money asking for trips all the things we just want to be aunt and uncle and okay that that would be the conversation point with the kids and then the other things family gatherings and stuff I would I would uh I don't feel like there needs to be a conversation around that I think you put up your own boundaries and say, "Sorry, we can't host this time, you know, and you just say >> it's not convenient." >> You just say no some of the times and and if not, say, "Okay, yes, we'll do this, but we need um >> need you to do this, this, and you need to bring dessert and you need to bring the meat." >> I need Yeah.

I need to delegate some of the responsibilities.

I think that's fine, but the whole kid thing. >> Yeah. I mean, I would I would not call I would not call my niece and nephew Bratz to my in-laws or to my sister and

>> yeah, >> Bill, her husband. I wouldn't be like, "You're >> But you wouldn't either. Don't you kind of act tough, but you would not call your >> I Yeah, I'm going to go, you know, they need to stop that. That's br might at least say they're bratty.

>> That's being bratty. And you're teaching them this and you shouldn't, >> you know." Yeah, I'm going to call it out. I mean, that's really ridiculous.

>> Yeah. >> And um it's really not funny.

>> And well, it's not. And Susie, it's the

parents are being butts. And what what it's passive aggressive and a little jealous. >> What kicks me off is they're sending their kids to do their dirty work. They

want to make this point and they're too cowardly to do it themselves. So, they got their little brat kid doing it.

>> I'm serious. That's the thing. That's just that's parents being wusses. And the It's the parents. I'm like, this is this not fair. >> Yeah. >> You know, and I just it's just wrong.

So, yeah. I mean, and so don't send your kids to do your dirty work, you know. Do if you want to say something, make a make a statement, but you don't have to send your four-year-old in. It's just silly and it's not funny. It's passive aggressive. All right. Will's in Kentucky. Hey, Will. What's up?

>> Hey guys, I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. How can I help?

Uh, so basically I'm 22 years old and uh

I'm doing pretty decent for myself and a

couple of my really good friends are starting to get out of college and I was wondering if it would be a good idea to allow them to move in uh to the next house I purchase with me without paying rent just to help them to save up for a down payment.

>> Probably not.

>> Okay. Yeah, I think I think it's you're a very nice guy.

>> Um I probably wouldn't do that. I I don't think it's going to end well for you or them. >> Um the only way I would do it would be say something like, "Okay, here's how much the rent is and for the first 3 months you get free rent >> and you I want you to put that towards your down payment." Okay? Or something like that. But this just you live here free and there's no set

>> structure to it.

This could go on a really long time and it could turn the friendship sour.

>> Okay. So, my original thoughts were to just have a set limit and basically ask for help around the house and then like the set time frame of how long they could stay there. So, still again uh you don't think that's a good idea? >> I I I would have some money in the process because I think it'll good for them and I don't think it keeps them from getting a house.

>> Being a roommate is the cheapest way to live even if you're paying for it.

Okay. >> So, for them, for them, it's still a bargain. >> Yeah. It'd be a deal for them just to still live in the house and pay, you know, a low rent versus getting their own apartment, right? I mean, it would be cheaper to live with you, even if they paid rent. But, if you guys split the mortgage, right, by four or something, that's probably going to end up being way cheaper than them going getting a onebedroom somewhere. So, you're kind of giving them a deal for the circumstance, if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. And if you want to, like I said, if you want to give them the first three months or something, I'd do that. But I I just think it sets a tone that you're probably not going to end this well.

>> Um, >> okay. >> You know, we we had a I bought a uh an investment property. Uh my son moved into it um when he came out of college

>> and was one of my tenants. It was a uh uh you know, multiple bedrooms. And so we moved some of his friends in with him that we knew. They were family friends, good guys. Matter of fact, a couple of them ended up coming to work here. And uh we moved them all in, but they all paid rent. They all paid rent and and we

didn't charge them, overcharge them, and we didn't, you know, it wasn't free, but they got they got a good deal. Um and but it was just good to keep the relationship lines really really clear.

It doesn't get blurred. And um you're a

very generous guy and I appreciate your heart on that. I want you to keep that heart. I don't want to destroy that.

That's not what's wrong with the picture. What's wrong with the picture is I don't think um I mean my opinion is

there's some un unforeseen unintended consequences of straight up free that maybe you're not seeing that I

think are going to go sideways on you. That's what I'm that's why I'm bringing this up. But I really want you to keep that heart of generosity. It's pretty incredible. Brad's in Arkansas. Hi Brad.

How are you? >> I'm all right. How about you Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, so I have a kind of unique question.

I have about $40,000 in unsecured and

credit card and personal loans. Um, but

my so my my dad passed away and before

my dad passed away, he gave I'm an only

child. He gave his house to his older

brother and his other older brother

wants me to now take over the house, but

I have to uh take the remaining debt and pay him

off because he completely paid it off from the mortgage company whenever my dad died, but he now wants me to take

that over.

>> Sounds like you're broke.

Yeah. Well, >> you taking over a house doesn't sound like a good idea.

>> Okay. Well, like I said, I didn't know if I took the the equity from the house

because the house is just the house itself is probably half a million dollars, but I don't even know.

>> He's going to give you a half a million dollar house.

>> Well, it was my dad's and I No, I'm saying your It's not anymore. It's your brother dad's brother. Your uncle owns the house. Yes. >> Okay. And you're he's going to give you a half a million dollar house.

>> Yes. When >> how much is owed on it? How much is owed on it? >> 90,000.

>> Okay. Well, if you took it and put it on the market the next day and never moved into it, that's okay.

>> Well, that's the condition is I can't I have to take >> You can't afford it. You're broke.

>> He won't give it to me. >> Would he give you this deal in 12 months if you got yourself in a position?

potentially, but he's I mean he's very

well off financially, but I think he's trying to expedite the deal because he removed

the um home insurance on the house

because he said he doesn't really need to add to what he owes on it. So, >> okay, honey, you you're you don't you don't need to take the house over right now. You got $40,000 in debt and no money. It's not a good deal for you today. if you could do the deal later after you get yourself cleaned up, it'll be okay. But, um, he's not really

thinking about you. He's thinking about himself.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we

help people build wealth, do work that

they love, and create actual amazing relationships. It's Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Networks. And my daughter, she's my co-host today. Phone number here is88255225.

Michael is in Phoenix. Hi, Michael.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> How are you doing today, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh, wonderful. I have a gentleman in my church. um about a year ago he co-signed for a car uh for a friend of his uh

girlfriend and I didn't know about it but two weeks ago he came to me because they um asked him because they were behind on their rent to take out a cash loan on the car um at a cash one uh

place and so he gave them that cash and

uh and they're not paying on it and so his it's coming out of his account and so um just trying to figure out the best

way I've helped him to break off contact with them uh cuz they were using him uh obviously. But uh I just don't know the best way to get him out and away from them with the co-signing of the loan, whether to get it repoed or just let it go dormant. I don't know how to break up that relationship. H >> how did um h how come he's not able to

emotionally handle that?

>> He's special needs. >> Oh, >> so they're taking advantage of him.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Wow. That's horrible.

>> Now, are they um Did you say they are He's in your church. Did you say they are too?

>> No, they are not. I didn't know about this. He's been attending for almost a year. I see. >> Um but uh I didn't know about this till two weeks ago until they started to get try and get cash from him.

>> Yeah. Wow.

>> How does he know them? What's the relationship with him? >> He was he he met the guy like three years ago and everything was fine. I believe he's also a little bit autistic and so they were good friends but a year ago uh the gentleman got married and

when he did that um he the girlfriend

asked uh if he could cosign for a car

because I don't I don't know the whole situation in there but he did and so he co-signed for her car and uh and then

>> for the friend's wife's car not his wife. >> Yes. Okay. Yes. >> All right. So, oh man, these guys are um

>> Well, I Yeah. >> So, there's about >> Who is there anyone else in the guy you're the guy you're trying to help? Is there anyone else in his life?

>> Um there's parents, but I don't know. He doesn't really He hasn't told them. I told him to tell them. Yeah. >> Uh but he doesn't want to tell them to worry them. >> Yeah. No, he's ashamed. Um that's No,

he's not worried about worrying them a bit. Um Yeah. The Yeah. Somehow the

biggest thing that you can do is to stop the bleeding so to speak and that's make sure this con and make him promise you to that he won't do anything else with them without first talking to you.

>> He did. Yeah. >> Yeah. And then and then hold him to that.

I mean you need to circle back on that periodically because he may not >> Well, we're actually because they're trying to come after him. We actually are working on getting a police injunction so that they can't be around him. >> Yeah. A restraint.

>> Very nice guy. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. because if they hang around him, it will happen again cuz he's a nice guy.

>> Yeah. >> So, >> okay. He just doesn't have the uh capacity to say no. Yeah.

That's different. That's different than being nice. >> Um Right. >> The um All right.

And And so he's got a co- signature on this car.

car being paid or do we know?

He I spoke with the with the girlfriend

and she said if I did not allow them to continue communicating with him and him to give him more money, they would quit paying on it. They've already quit paying on the they did not make the first payment on the cash loan uh that they had said that they were going to pay off for him. And so that came out of his account and so he's struggling financially with that. >> He's got to shut his account. He needs to shut his account down so nothing else can come out of it.

>> Okay. Shut his account down. Um, do uh is >> you keep saying girlfriend. Is it his wife? >> It's the girlfriend of the friend. >> Yeah, but the friend got married. I thought he said >> I'm sorry. I'm not 100% sure. I think I think it's his wife, but it might be his girlfriend. I'm not sure.

>> There's a couple of con artists on the other side of this equation. Yeah.

>> Um, so we're putting a restraining order in place and you're going to shut down his account. Um, the only other thing I

think I might do is, uh, if you have an attorney in the church that will help, >> proono, um, I think I would go to both of these companies, the cash company and the car loan company, and say, "This guy is of diminished capacity, and, uh, you had him sign something.

he's not legally bound to it and you need to release him or I'm going to make you the poster child of people who abuse

special needs people and let the attorney let the attorney get him off of these two loans >> and then I don't care if the car gets repoed. The cash is gone. He's not going to be able to do anything about that and he needs to set up his account where they can't get into it anymore. But the attorney needs to get in touch with both of them and say, "Listen, this guy goes to church with us.

He's diminished capacity. He doesn't have have the ability to sign this stuff. He can't be held legally liable. And if you guys don't let him loose, I'm going to make you wish I would let you loose.

That's the attorney's That's the attorney's script. Okay.

>> Is he severely autistic, Michael?

>> No. >> Okay. I'm just wondering how easy it is, but >> emot emotionally, you know.

>> Sure. >> But >> I just wonder how hard it is legally to get >> that. >> It doesn't matter. I'm not doing it. I'm just threatening it. >> Okay.

>> We're not going to go to court. We're not going to go to court and have him declared incompetent over a couple of little baby loans. We're not bothering with that. But we are going to let these guys know that they are morally bankrupt, ethically bankrupt, and we're going to make them wish they hadn't done this if they don't let this guy go.

Yeah. >> So, this is called a threat.

>> Yeah. >> So, worst case scenario, um, >> just ignore it. Just ignore it. And if it screws up his credit, good. He can't do it again. >> Right. Right. So, just don't make any payments on it. Let it repo and then let it all let it all implode.

>> And And by the way, if the repo man ever gets in touch with you, tell them where the car is.

>> Tell them to go get it. >> Right. Exactly. Right.

>> I'll give you the address. >> I sure hope you don't go to 1 2 3 4 Main Street. That's where the car is. I sure hope you don't go over there.

>> Right. >> Okay. >> Please don't go to this city address. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> I don't think I know where it is, but the last time I saw it is over there. I sure hope you don't find it. Yeah.

Right. Right. >> It was there at 10 o'clock this morning.

Here's a picture. >> How much is it all, Michael? total

with the with both loans with the with

the cosign of the car and the amount of cash that they got. Like what did it all total?

>> Um there's still 16 just under 16,000 on the car. Okay. >> And then $2,000 in cash.

>> The car has a value though, so that's not going to be the deficit after the repo. The bad news is this guy's got his credit dinged up. The good news is he won't be able to do it again because his credit's dinged up, >> right? >> So it's it's he won't be able to cosign.

Yeah, it be it'll work out to his favor.

I hope and hopefully we can start to you

you're you're being um >> you're very kind, Michael, of helping >> to be discipling him and helping him through this number one, but also giving him some tools >> for discernment that are not readily available to him. And if you can help him with that, it'll it'll also help him to build boundaries. Hey, you know, even

uh all of us that are not special needs, we need those tools and sometimes we have to build those tools. So that's not that unusual.

[Music]

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[Music]

Did you know that twice that twothirds

of Americans die without a will? Like

seven out of 10. When you die without a will, you're inviting the court, the lawyers, and the public into the most personal part of your life. And they're going to tell you what to do. Well, they're going to tell your family what to do. You'll be dead. But you need a will. Billionaire industrialist Howard Hughes, known as one of the richest men's in men in the world, died in April of se 1976. His estate with no will

wasn't settled until 1983. 600 people

claimed rights to it. 22 legal cousins

finally split up the fortune. It destroyed the whole thing because he didn't have a will. You need a will.

>> Even if you don't have billions of dollars, >> even if you don't have 2.5 billion, you need a will. If you just have kids, don't let the com don't let the state tell you where your kids go.

You know, make sure you named a guardian, you have a will, and you set up, you know, all this. So, it's uh we want to challenge you to create your will in August in less than 5 minutes.

You can find out if an online will works or if you need a full-on attorney to do it. Ramseyolutions.com/willquiz.

It's free. Click the link in the show notes and we'll get you set up. This is will month. Use the promo code and uh you can get an online will and get 25% off by doing all this. But go check out the will quiz real quick and you need one by the way if you're breathing and you're over 18. Jeff's in Buffalo, New York. Hi Jeff. How are you?

>> Great. Thanks for having me on the show.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Uh so my daughter's just graduated from

college. We took some loans um to get

them through. Um we've got about 180

left on our mortgage and I have three

retirement accounts plus a brokerage account and the brokerage account has about 200,000 in it. And my wife and I

are talking about should we just cash in the brokerage account, pay off the student loans and take the rest of it and pay it against the mortgage.

>> How much student loan debt? >> We don't have card >> pardon me. How much student loan debt is there? >> It's about 125 >> between how many kids? Just one.

>> Two. >> Two. >> Okay. And these are like parent are these parent plus loans or are you >> Oh, okay. So, you've got student loan debt with 200k in the bank.

>> Yeah. Pay that off by nightfall.

>> For sure. >> All right. >> Yeah. By the by the time you get off the phone, it should be paid.

>> Okay. >> Right now. Yeah. Absolutely.

You and your wife are right. I would do what you suggested instantaneously and then I would make sure. Do you have any other accounts that are nonretirement?

>> Um, no. We have the brokerage account and then we have our savings account.

And >> the savings how much is in the savings account? Oh, the savings account is the 200. >> No, the brokerage is 200. How much is in the savings account? >> Account is the 200. Uh, the savings account it's about five or six thousand.

>> Okay. You need 3 to 6 months of exp. Do you have any loans other than the student loans, not counting your mortgage?

>> No, we have no credit card debt. We have no car loans. So, >> okay. All right. So, Jeeoff, I'm walking through the system that we teach that we've taught for 30 years that works every time. It's called the baby steps.

The first step is to be debtree other than your home. So, 125,000 in student loans, that leaves 75 in the brokerage account. Okay. Now, you're debtree.

That's baby step two. Baby step three is

a fully funded emergency fund which represents 3 to 6 months of household expenses. Uh what's your household income, sir?

>> Uh it's about 180.

>> Cool. What do you think your monthly expenses if you just had to write checks and be and stay open? What would it take to stay open?

>> Uh we're cash positive. I I have a budget and we keep track of that every month. So, >> what's it take a month? 5,000. Yeah. How much does it take to pay mortgage?

>> What's it take to stay open each month?

What's your burn rate? >> Oh, it's about five and a half. It's actually 5600.

>> Okay. So, 3 to 6 months of that would be 20 $25,000.

>> Yep. >> Okay. So, uh with a 180 income, that's

probably pretty cool. So, let's call if we call your emergency fund 25,000. It's only got five in it. You need to put 20 in it. Now, we've used another 20 of your 200. So, uh, we're down to 55.

>> We're down to 55 that you're going to throw at the mortgage. Baby step three is putting 15 or four is putting 15% of your income into retirement. If you're not, start putting that in the budget.

Baby step number four is kids college.

Oh, wait. We just finished that. Baby step six is pay off the house as fast as you can. And that's the 55 going towards the 180. And then whatever I can squeeze out of my budget going forward because you're cash positive, instead of building up a brokerage account, I'm paying off the mortgage as fast as I can.

Okay, that that's now that's how we execute this >> while funding 15% of your income into retirement. So, you are still investing while paying off the house.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, that that's the outline of what we do. I'll send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover, because you sound like you're open to actually doing it. That's pretty cool. So, it'll show you how to do it. That's very cool. But the and the purpose of all that, Jeff, is what it does. It sets you up with no mortgage payment, making 180, no payments of any kind, your emergency funds covered, you're systematically investing. There's nothing left to do then but become very wealthy and outrageously generous. And we call all

of that living like no one else. So that later you can live and give like no one else. You've done a really good job. All we're doing is tweaking the flow of some of this cash and and maximizing its potential. That's all we did in the last few minutes. So, very cool. Yeah, student loans are gone. Boom. $25,000 emergency fund. Boom. 55 on the house or

20 20 25 but adding 20 to the emergency fund. 55 on the house. So, uh now the

house is down to 100 and a quarter. And here we go. Game on, baby. Game on. And you'll knock that out. You'll probably knock that out in a year, man. And uh you walk through the backyard without your shoes on. The grass feels different, man. When you got no mortgage, life changes. It's so freaking

weird. Jeremy's in Atlanta. Hi, Jeremy.

How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. >> Good. How can I help? Um, I've I've kind

of acred a a lump sum of money over the years and and savings and I've kind of put it into uh high yield savings, maybe bought a few CDs and stuff like that,

but um I I don't have any retirement,

but everything that I own is paid for.

>> Good. >> And I don't really know what percentage to go. >> So, you're great at avoiding debt.

You're great at saving. You're lousy at investing. >> Yes. Scared, honestly.

>> That's fair. That's fair. Well, you know what's scared? Scared when you don't know how to do something is what is wisdom.

You know, you you get behind a car and you're 12 years old and they start the car and it's 400 m 400 horsepower. You should be scared.

>> Well, I know money in my bank account's good. It kind of scares me. >> Yeah. Relish control. I'm 38.

>> Okay. All right. So, here's the thing.

There's two kinds of fear and yours is a wise fear. uh a an unwise fear is I'm

just have this general paranoia and and we call that false uh evidence appearing real. But your fear is I don't know what this is and it's powerful and so it's scary. That's a good fear. So how do we overcome that? We add knowledge to the equation. So if I woke up in your shoes, how much have you got in all these accounts by the way?

>> Um as of right now about $483,000.

>> Way to go man. >> Well done. >> Way to go. Most people are broke and look at you. That's so good.

>> I'm very very broke. Yeah, trust me.

>> It's going to be so easy for you though.

All you've got to have is some knowledge. So, do you own a home?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. The home did not come with a FDIC

guarantee that it would not go down in value, did it?

>> No. >> But you were very comfortable buying that. You weren't scared investing in

that piece of real estate. And I'm making that point. I knew it was going to be worth more. ah historical data

walking around since you're old enough that you've seen houses go up in value and you could believe they're going to continue to good analysis and that

removed the fear. So, uh I'll give you

an example. I own a mutual fund that started in 1934.

It has averaged almost 12% a year since 1934.

It's only had 22 down years and in the

last 25 years it's only had three down years.

I'm pretty comfortable with that. Like you're pretty comfortable buying a house.

Follow me. >> But you got to add that knowledge to your bucket. So what I would tell you to do is sit down with a Ram Smart with a Ramsey Smart Veester Pro and click on ramsolutions.com. Sit down with them and they have the heart of a teacher. Tell them when you call them, "I'm not ready to invest. I want to learn because I'm scared. And they will be gentle, kind,

and teach. And they will teach you and teach you and teach you until you are ready to purchase, not when they're ready to sell. And then you'll be able to do some long-term investing the same way you bought that house.

[Music]

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[Music]

>> Maddie is in Orange County, California.

Hi, Maddie. How are you?

>> Hi. Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

So, my husband and I are in baby step two. Um, we have about $100,000 in debt,

and our question is, do we continue to

pay off our minimum payments on all of our debts while we're trying to hack off our debt, or do we pause on our minimum

payments and use all of that money to knock out one debt at a time?

No, you make minimum payments and pay minimum payments on everything but the little one and attack the little one with what you can find beyond that. That does two things. One is it keeps them from chasing you and hassling you for being in default. And two is it keeps from destroying your credit.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Just to stay current so you guys don't get behind on them if you just stopped paying them.

>> Yeah. Which we're able to pay all of them right now. We were just thinking, you know, if the thought process is, you know, that we don't need a credit score, then >> Yeah, you don't. But you're going to get yourself into a bunch of late fees and maybe even some legal fees where they come after you.

>> Yeah. >> What's all the debt in? What are the different types of debt?

>> So, we have uh 12,000 in student loans,

70,000 in car debt, which I just convinced my husband to sell the cars.

So >> that's great. >> Um we're there. Um 20,000 in credit card

debt, 10,000 in personal debt, and then 35 in medical debt.

>> Okay, good for you. Well, you're attacking this. And what's your household income?

>> Uh my husband makes 120 a year.

>> Okay. All right. And uh um yeah, you get

rid of the cars, it's going to catapult you way forward in this

>> uh and get, you know, just get some inexpensive cars for the time being and uh which don't fit in in Orange County.

I understand. Whoopdedoopy. But uh we're still going to do it anyway. >> Was it just lifestyle creep, Maddie? All the credit card debt and everything.

>> I'm sorry. >> Was it pretty much lifestyle creep?

Would you say all the credit card debt? or were you guys opening a business or what was causing all that? >> No, it's it's just not wise spending and

we actually had my husband had a lot of uh credit card debt before we got married and so most of it is his.

>> Gotcha. Gotcha. >> And you're both on this now and you're both attacking it and this we're talking about this a lot and that's why that's why you start asking questions like this. Good.

Good. That's a good sign. I think you're on track. But uh no, I the answer to your question is I would continue to pay minimum payments because the late fees, the legal fees, the all the other stuff.

And yeah, I'm not worried about your credit. I'm not trying to build credit, but on the other hand, I'm not trying to destroy it either. Um we'll let let it be what it is. And um pay everything on time.

current and then attack the smallest.

But getting I mean, you probably got what 12 $1,400 in in uh car payments,

right?

Yeah, we have 12,000 in car payments and then we have a little over 1,400 in I'm sorry 1,200 in car payments and 1,400 in other minimum payments.

>> So half of your payments are car payments and 70% of your debt is. So you'd only have 30 you'd only have $30,000 left to hit, >> which is so great too, Maddie, because on the other end always the math you think you guys don't have $3,000 a month freed up, right? That's not going to >> Yeah. >> banks and you know your student loan debt and everything. It's going to be with you guys. So, that's always the encouraging other end of the formula.

>> Yeah. Look at that. Look at how fun this is going to be off the back once you do all this crap that you got to go through to clean up the mess. But, you're Yeah, Rachel's got a good point there. Tanya's in Arkansas. Hey, Tanya. Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Hello. Hi.

>> Hi. How can we help? you. Um, I have a

um a son who graduated high school this year and he's going to an expensive Christian college and he doesn't quite have enough money to cover it. And um I'm wondering if I should be generous

and help him out um until he can get a job and get settled or if I should say, "Sorry, bud. You're on your own." Mhm. >> How much is the How much is this college costing per semester or per year?

>> Um, let's see. He he lacks about I think

it's about $7,000 um per semester. Um, the college itself was like 50,000 and he's gotten enough scholarships and stuff to cover most of it, but there's just a little bit lacking.

>> Okay. The number one thing that causes student loan debt is not the fact that people want to get an education. It's the fact that they select a college they can't afford.

>> Mhm. >> While there's colleges all over the place he could have afforded.

>> Right. And he had said that after this first semester if um before getting a

loan that he would come back to our town. >> How's he going to pay for it? He's short. >> Um, well, I was I was going to help him.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, his plan is if after the first semester I have to get a loan. Well, he's going to have to get a loan. He's guy's short. What's his plan? >> Oh, come back here to Conway to go to a state school, which would be it would be covered. >> No, he's already gone to the other place for a semester and couldn't afford it. How did he pay for that?

>> Oh, I am I was going to help him with this first semester. Oh, so he knows that you've already made that commitment >> and then going forward he's expect he's going to try to what? >> Okay. So 7 So if he's 7,000 short, mom's going to cover it, but he's going to come home.

>> What? >> Well, he has had Well, he Let me see.

He's gotten a um a 529. He had about Let

me think how much he has. He has 4,000 in it. It's not very much. And it doesn't completely cover this the first semester. And so he was just going to go ahead and just use that and then go forward with what he's got. And I said, "Well, I'd like to help you. I'll do this much." >> Tanya, if you don't pay for the school, you don't get to go.

>> And he's short.

>> So unless you give him the money, he's going to take a loan.

>> And what he's about to pay for one semester at this school probably could cover >> through the whole thing in Arkansas.

>> Right. Right.

So, the best gift you can give him, Tanya, honestly, is sitting him down and laying out the facts of the situation and the reality of what she's living in and make a wiser choice. Is he starting

this fall, like coming up?

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's already set to go and and pay for things this fall.

>> Yeah. Cancel it.

>> Okay. >> I mean, seriously, >> stupid. >> It It is stupid because I'll be honest, it it is probably I'm I'm going to just say it. It's probably a school that you've no one's ever really heard of.

It's going to do nothing for him in the job market, right? Like it's there there's nothing that is causing any any

type of >> and I'm not against Christian schools, but the idea that somehow that all the holy people go there and they don't go to the others is hogwash.

>> Some of the people at Christian schools ain't real Christian, honey. We all know that. Okay. >> And that may not have been his motiv.

I mean, it's just it is it's there there's no marketplace value for most of these degrees because the school doesn't carry any level of credibility because majority of people don't even know where you could >> get a to get a degree at another college that no one's really ever heard of either, but it's an instate but it's an instate school and you take instate tuition >> and he gets it paid for because he sounds >> for what he's paying for this semester.

>> Yeah, >> he should he should cancel. >> So that's the gift you could give him, huh, Tanya? honestly to to lay this out for him. >> So, um let me let me h how do I say this

gently? Um

your job as mom is not to go along with

someone's dream, which is actually a nightmare in the making. Your job as mom is to be stronger than that and speak

more directly into this with more wisdom and more force.

>> I would beg you to be stronger with him.

He is not equipped to make this decision. And we can tell because he's made a bad one.

>> And he is not. Just because he's tall and taller than he was and his voice is deep and he has some hair on his back doesn't mean he makes good decisions.

Okay?

>> Just because he looks like a man doesn't mean he's ready to make this decision.

>> So he needs he needs his parent in his

life >> to say don't do this.

>> Tanya, please please be a voice. be a

voiceover. Yes, you will. I I >> Please do it. You can do it. >> Yes, >> you can do it. I hope you do.

>> And that's what's so hard about student loan debt. It's these 18-year-olds that have no idea. He's going to a $50,000 a year school, right? Do you know what I mean? And there's no adult dumb idea. >> This is a stupid idea. Oh man. Tanya,

you can do this. >> This is how student This is how we have $1.7 trillion in student loan. Ladies and gentlemen, you give free money >> and not to Harvard, you know, like a big school. It's probably I mean it's doing nothing to Harvard. >> It's going to do nothing. >> Who would go there now? >> No, I I'm just saying a school that people actually have heard of that's like wow that's impressive. Yel. I don't know. [Music]

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Brett's in Lincoln, Nebraska. Hi Brett.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you doing today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um, thanks for taking my call.

First off, um my my wife and I have um a

little over $100,000 in credit card debt. >> Wow. >> Um and I and I'm in sales um and have a

quite large commission that's coming in at the end of this month that will basically wipe out all that debt. Praise God. >> Wow. >> Wow. That's lucky. I mean, you worked hard for it, I know, but that's great.

>> Yeah. >> And then you're panicked that you might do it again, >> right? Yeah. And so how do we how do we

Yeah. My wife and I are both on the same page in that. So >> obviously a change in our spending habits and lifestyle, but I'm curious how we should be thinking about >> our behavior and our spending when it comes to not using a credit card and using more cash or a debit card and how we should approach that. >> Light two candles tonight after dinner, get all the credit cards out and have a plastic surgery party.

a placctomy. >> Sounds good. >> Chop every single one of them up and

then close every one of the accounts when you pay them off. That's step one.

>> Yeah. Cut it off at the source. Just be done. Be done with it. Do you guys know the why? Why? What? What caused the

100,000? Is it is it purely lifestyle?

Is it that you guys just didn't have a budget? Like what was the what? because getting to the root of it and understanding the motivation and what caused it in the first place is going to help going forward that if you can identify that.

>> Yeah, I think it's a combination of both, right? Like we had a budget but we didn't really stick to it necessarily and monitor it on a weekly basis and

there were also some life style choices and trying to keep up with the Joneses and >> just wanting nicer things above and beyond our paycheck. Both of you both of you can look at each other and say that to in total both of you are admitting this, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Good. Good. How old are you guys?

>> Um 37 and 39.

>> Perfect. And what's your household income including your normal checks that you get?

>> Um so it's variable depending upon the

commissions every year. >> Sure. But I mean what do you average? What's your normal income?

My annual paycheck is 125,000 myself. Um

my wife works part-time at our church and makes about 23,000.

>> Then how much do you usually get in these bonuses? I know this is an unusually large one.

>> Yeah, I mean it's variable. Um anywhere

collectively between >> I'd say like 300,000 to 600,000

depending upon the year. >> Oh wow. >> All right. So, here's what um

I tried to do for a long time. I was a little younger than you at the time when I figured it out about me was I'm an

abundance person and I'm a really good salesperson. You're obviously a really good salesperson. Um and I'm an abundance person. When I put those two things together, what I fell prey to was

I always just thought, well, if there if we need some money, I'll just go get some more money. And if I, in other words, I thought I could out earn my disorganization and stupidity and overspending. And it found out I couldn't. You can never make enough to beat that. And that's where you are today. You've discovered that. I don't know if you fell prey to that exact emotion or not, but I always thought, I'll just go get some more money. I I can out earn my stupidity. And um and

sometimes someone that's very good at what you like you is like I am, they

fall prey to that. So, um, you can't you

have to build processes and systems into

your life that causes both of you to be accountable. And that starts with a basic budget. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm going to be honest with you, Brad, I'm a little bit shell shocked that I'm like, you guys went $100,000 in debt making half a million dollars a year. Like, >> that's I mean, that's pretty >> that's a lot of spending of overspending. Like, that's a lot of that's a lot of spending. And I like to spend, but I'm like, oh my gosh. So, I

mean, if I Yeah, if I were you guys, um, man, I mean, I would sit down and figure out how can we, I mean, I would drive such deep contentment and discipline so

hard in this first year and and make it >> swing the pendulum the other way. >> Yes. Make it a year goal and live on, god forbid, 200,000, you know what I mean? Like, seriously.

>> Sure. >> Ju just to get to this idea of reality of like, okay, we are we are good, right? like we we make great income and and if we you know choose 250 or whatever and >> you're in Lincoln, Nebraska, not >> Manhattan.

Like you don't need all this stuff. And I know you feel that already, but there's something about actually living it out and making choices and being disciplined to know we have money in the bank, but we're still choosing to live so below our means to really get in this

this process and this pattern and this and actually live it out and then you

guys can start kind of loosening the reins more and more. But um I mean if that's what I would do if I were you guys and I'm a spender, but I would I would Yeah. I would try to live on half the income and just be disciplined in that cuz you guys have been so far the other way. >> Yeah, that's >> I hope y'all took great vacations and stuff. You know what I mean? Like I hope there's like >> there's a tremendous >> good memories. >> Tremendous gun collection.

>> Yeah. Or >> tremendous purse collection. >> Purse collection. I don't know.

>> But uh but good for you guys. I mean you're obviously you're an incredible worker. I mean that's >> that's a phenomenal income which is so great and you guys can use that in such wisdom and discipline and contentment.

>> And here's the thing. You will like yourself better and each other better when you do that. >> Yes. Yes. >> Because you're more likable than some outofc control spending freak.

>> It's going to feel really good. >> Yeah. >> It's going to it's and it's spiritual too discipline and it all like it's overall I think it's going to be really really healthy for you guys. So I'm I'm I'm excited for y'all honestly because it's it's the kind of people like you honestly Brett that >> you can bless your family.

you can do some really amazing things in life because you have the tools to do it and you're going to be able to be extremely generous and the blessings you're going to be able to give to people above and beyond is un is incredible.

think about your kids' kids and the legacy. I mean, you guys are just set up to have a really rich not and numbers

wise, but just fulfillment and money can be a tool to help create that, but it is not the thing that's going to be the fulfilling factor. And you guys know this because it doesn't buy happiness.

You don't you're never going to find a level of satisfaction because you will keep spending and keep spending and spend beyond uh $500,000 a year.

>> Yeah. There's a peace underlying this that she's talking about godliness with contentment is great gain.

scripture says. And so it's that peace that >> and when you're overspending that's kind of frenetic and kind of crazy and kind of wild >> and there's this adrenaline rush and this dopamine hit from hitting the submit button on the cart on Amazon and all that garbage. >> And uh those people they they the the people that do the marketing on that stuff understand that and take advantage of it. And so your your anxiety level in the house is going to drop when you get control of this.

Your relationships are going to improve when you get control of this.

peaceful when you get get control of this. So there's so much more to it than the simple arithmetic or the sickening

sense of I'm out of control and overspending like some kind of freaking addict or something. And so, yeah, you're you're really asking great questions. You're in a great place. And the phenomenal news is you get one shot here to clean it all up at once. Wow.

>> Chop up those cards tonight. Get a debit card. Uh you can go on the envelope system. I still carry cash in my pocket.

And I'm I'm I buy most things with cash, but I'm really old school. I mean, I've got a redneck emergency fund in my wallet, a thousand thousand bucks, right? All the time. just um just because I might need it. And I never do, but just because I might need it. And um

so yeah, it just there's a different feeling when you're using money that you

have and it's a sense of power, a sense of control over it, telling your money what to do instead of wondering where it went. We're going to sign you up for the Every Dollar Premium and get you involved in that and jump into one of these free webinars that the Ramsey personalities like Rachel are doing, showing you how to set that thing up and get it running. Uh it'll be valuable.

You and your wife sit there and do it together and lay out every dollar before the month begins, where it's going to go, regardless of how big the commission check is. Every dollar needs a name. I don't care where it's going as long as you do it on purpose. Actually, I do care where it's going, but do it on purpose >> and that that'll get you there. And you'll see some real good movement in that. Wow. Big numbers.

>> Yeah, I know. Which I'm glad cuz they

can get out of it, but also um it magnifies, you know, it magnifies the absurdity >> of what of what it is. Yeah. And that's a great example. But Brett, we're cheering you guys on for real.

>> I'm proud of you. Get after it, dude.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

live from From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsay Show where we help people build wealth, do

work that they love, and create actual

amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz,

number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the Rachel Cruz Show. My daughter is my co-host today.

Owen is with us in Canada. Hi, Owen. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you guys?

>> Just the same. How can I help?

So, I'm wondering um if I should sell my

home um and rent for a little while and then

like save up some more just to make it a little more affordable on the monthtomonth on my end.

>> Okay. Um what's not affordable?

>> Well, after I started listening to you guys, I realized like my mortgage payment is over 25% of my monthly

take-home. What percentage is it?

>> It's It's probably about like Well, 25%

would be $850 and it's currently $1250.

>> Okay. All right. And how much other debt do you have, huh?

>> None. >> Okay. What's your household income?

>> Uh, I clear 3,400 a month.

>> Mhm. Okay. So, >> and then my my >> I don't I don't know Canadian tax rates off the top of my head. I'm guessing you make what? Uh 60,000 bucks a year.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah.

>> Okay. All right. And um >> you bring home 3,400 though, >> right? >> Yeah, that's right.

>> Um >> that's like that's like every Yeah, clear. >> Yeah. And you don't have any other debt and your house. So, um,

the last the reason I'm hedging around and fumbling is the last thing I sell is the house. And I will sell the house if you can't afford it. I would tell you to do that cuz it's not a blessing to you.

Um, yours is a little high, but it's borderline. And do you hate the house?

>> I don't hate the house. I just when I heard you guys say that a house should be a blessing. Yes. You know, not more an an inconvenience. It feels like an inconvenience from time to time.

>> Okay. Feels like it feels like it owns you. Sometimes you don't own it. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Uh what's the trajectory on your income?

Is it going up fast?

>> It goes up a little bit year by year.

>> Slow. Okay. >> Yeah. Slow. Yeah. >> Is it just you, Owen, or are you married? Kids?

>> Just me? >> Just you? Okay.

I I I'm okay if you want to hang out there and hang on to this thing and fight on through it. It's not enough that it's um

that that it's completely holding you back. It's not enough that you're drowning in it. It it's it's it is enough that it's uncomfortable and it is more than I would sign you up for if we were talking from scratch. But selling a home, moving, all of that is a very emotionally and financially expensive thing to do.

And so it's the last thing I tell people to do before I tell them to sell their car real quick. I tell them to sell, you know, other stuff so fast. I tell them take an extra job so fast. That kind of thing.

>> Yeah. Because it's a couple hundred bucks, you know what I mean? 600 700 bucks a month that ideally, you know, you would have for margin in your budget. But um yeah, I'm with you.

>> Rachel's in Sacramento. Hi, Rachel.

>> Hello. >> How can we help?

>> You know what? I made a big mistake.

Bought my daughter a car. Yes, I've made many, but this is huge. Last September

and it was contingent upon her getting herself together, her FICO high, all that good stuff, and then putting it in her name. It's almost a year she hasn't done that. She's getting fasttrack tickets. That's like a toll bridge thing. and her insurance is not covered by anyone other than mom. And I'm becoming inundated with this and I feel like I'm ready to do something drastic just to pay off the car and just give it to her. >> Um, how much is the car?

>> 27,000 approximately.

>> And is it in your name, Rachel?

>> Yes, ma'am. It is. >> Yes, ma'am. >> And and the loans in your name?

Everything? >> Yes, ma'am. Dummy me. Yes.

So, let me ask you, wait a minute. The the agreement was >> that she was to uh arrange to get the car paid off and put it into her name and she's done been unable to do that because of her irresponsibility. Is that what you told me? >> Absolutely.

Pretty much. >> And how long ago? And that was a year ago. >> Yes.

>> And things have gotten a little bit haywire now because these tickets have come. >> Registration is going to be more than expected. And and >> you know, I I would just call her and have her I She lives in your area, I assume. >> Yes.

>> Yeah. I think you need to sit down with her for a cup of coffee and say, "Honey, you know what?

I I thought I was doing something nice for you and this is a curse to you. It has really messed up your life and I'm so sorry. Hey, we're going to fix it.

We're going to sell that car." >> Well, she has three children, my grand so she has to have transportation. I don't care. >> I know. >> She does not need a $27,000 car and she's irresponsible and she didn't follow through on what she said.

>> Are you a multi-millionaire?

>> Absolutely not. I'm going to start working for you guys and become one, though. How about that? That's another story. >> Okay. >> But you don't have the money. You don't have the money to throw around 20. You don't have $27,000, do you?

>> No. But you know what? This is the crux of the question. I am 61. I'm going to get my social security early next year.

Even though that may not be the smartest thing to do, but I have a home. So, I was either going to get um a heliloc or

take the lump sum from my employer. Just be done. >> Sweet girl, you made a mistake. Undo the mistake. Don't keep doing it.

>> I know. >> What you did was not a blessing to your daughter.

>> To the grandchildren. >> You didn't help your daughter.

>> You hurt your daughter.

>> You put her in a situation where she can't afford a car.

Well, actually, when I went to the >> Honey, she can't afford the car.

>> No, she can't. >> She can't afford the tickets and the registration. She's not taking care. You can't afford the car. Nobody can afford the car. The car needs to go away.

>> It's not a blessing. >> She going to transport the children.

>> Honey, we might get a $5,000 car.

>> Yeah, she's a single parent.

>> Honey, she can get a $5,000 car. Single parents do it all the time.

>> So, maybe. But you're not blessing her.

You're not blessing those kids. You're putting those kids' mom in a trap >> and she can't swim. She's drowning because of you.

>> Well, she does it monthly.

>> Stop it. Quit rationalizing it. It was a

dumb butt idea. Quit doing it. Stop it.

>> Okay. >> Love your daughter better.

>> Okay. >> Sit down with her. Say, "I made a mistake, honey. for selling this car and we're going to figure out a way to get you a little $5,000 car to cart those little kids around and get yourself up on your feet, kiddo. Cuz guess what?

That's what you did, >> right? >> You did the same thing. And nobody gave you a car you couldn't afford drowned you in it. >> You're like somebody swimming and you hand them an anchor.

>> How do I sell a car that's being financed? >> You sell Okay, now we're getting somewhere. >> Yeah. Go on Kelly Blue Book, Rachel.

Okay. And put in all the information and see how much the car is worth. You owe 27. There's a good chance you're going to be underwater on this car. So, the value of the car, let's pretend it's at $24,000 that you can sell it for 24,000.

That means you have you're going to ow you have $3,000 that you have to find.

So, what you could do is go down, get a

$8,000 loan from a credit union, give your daughter the $5,000 if you want to get her the $5,000 car, $3,000 for the difference, and be done with it. And >> you you pay off the $8,000 for your mistake, >> and then you pay off the $8,000 of that loan. >> But here's the thing. When you're trying to bless somebody and you do it wrong, you don't bless them, you curse them.

And that's what you did. You didn't mean to, honey, but it's what you did. So, you need to undo it.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music] Thanks for joining us, America. Buying or selling real estate is a big deal in the middle of all the drama that we've got going on right now. And when you're facing drama, Dr. John Deloney has a good saying. He says, "Facts are your friends.

Facts can help you pierce through all the hyperbole and the overstatement and the crazy stuff you see on Tic Tac and on Instagram. Facts are good for you. If

you want to know what the latest facts are about the US housing market trends, we can help you do that. Go to ramseyolutions.com/market.

You'll be able to find there what the median house prices actually are and what they're trending up or down regardless of what someone told you that their neighbor sold their house for.

Yeah, that's not good information. How many houses are actually on the market?

What are the real interest rates today?

Yeah, we keep the website up to date and ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes.

Malik is with us in Boston. Hi Malik,

how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Thanks for uh taking my call today. Um so I make uh kind of a

variable amount of money each month and

trying to budget right now to kind of more aggressively pay off my student loans and good >> just wanted some advice on that.

What is the the fluctuation usually

like? What's a high high month low month? >> Yeah. So last year I made um about 65,000 and that was anywhere between

like 2500 a month to like upwards of

9,000. >> Okay. >> Pretty good fluctuation. What do you do for a living? >> Yeah. Um I'm an acupuncturist. Um so I a

lot of my income I mean essentially my entire income is based on the number of people I see um in a given week or month

and then I also do some side jobs as well um >> okay >> to supplement that. >> Okay. So what I would do um because I

I'm on a my income is up and down too

throughout the year depending on work and everything too. Highly commission based. So what Winston and I do in our budget, we have it prioritized of what

has to be paid and then what we just like and enjoy. And so for you, you got

to figure out, you know, food, shelter, utilities, transportation, your four walls have to be covered every single month, right? We're not going to get behind on those things. Um, >> and what does it take to do that? If it takes 21,00 to do that, the first 2100 is gone before we even start talking.

>> Yep. And then everything else after that, prioritize different categories.

So insurance would be one thing, you know, to make sure that that that's paid. Uh but just go down the list and if you download our every dollar app, they give you a set number of categories. It's like up to 20 of thing of different things that you probably spend money on throughout the month that you may even not realize. And so I so we just prioritize that. And then when the money comes in and we realize, okay, we

have enough, you know, obviously to pay the essentials and then anything extra then starts dropping into these other categories. And then what I would do too for you, um, as you're starting all of this is to have a we call it the peaks and valleys fund. So have a separate kind of savings account or savings line within your savings to put some extra money aside so when you do have a low month you can pull from that to create somewhat of a consistent lifestyle if that makes sense >> to even it out a little bit. >> Yep.

And then anything above and beyond that because you do have debt your expenses should be at a minimum. So you're going to be throwing anything extra you have at this debt to get it paid off.

a small month equals we lived and maybe

paid some on the debt, >> right? Okay. Yeah. That that essentially it was kind of like, okay, I figured out how much my basic right >> life >> requires and then >> um however much on top of that I need to be able to like keep some in order like

in case I have a low month.

>> That's right. Yeah. >> Just figuring out how much of that to put toward >> not not as much as your emotions feel like. It won't take much with what you're describing. If you had a th00and $2,000 sitting over there, you'd even everything out.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> It's not a lot of money. >> So, um yeah, that all of that does that.

So, if you've ever done like a time management thing where you said, "Okay, I have a to-do list and I'm going to force rank it to from the most important thing to the least important thing and then I'm going to do the to-do list in the order of most important to least important." If you've ever done that on like a yellow pad, this is the same concept, only you're just doing it with money. >> Yeah. Yeah, I like that. Um,

okay. >> That's exactly how you get at it, man. Congratulations. Hey, thanks for calling in. We appreciate you being with us.

Naomi is in New York. Hi, Naomi. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank God we're doing well.

>> Good. Um, we've been away for the summer

and we took a job in a camp, my husband and I, and we had our basics taken care

of, which was really nice. And we managed to save up a good chunk based on our job. We have 20,000 practically cash at this point. Um, and wondering where

we need to be putting it towards.

>> Do you guys have debt?

>> We do. >> Okay. How much debt do you guys have?

>> About 50,000. It's two cars and a and a

small personal loan that has no interest on it. >> Okay. How much is each car do you owe on each car?

>> Um we have 15 and 27.

>> 15 27. Okay. And the loan is

>> 15 and 27. >> That's like four. Yeah.

>> Okay. And how much do you guys make a year?

>> Um about 8K a month.

>> Okay. Yeah. Well, for sure the 20 or the 50 is going to be thrown to pay off or the 20 that you guys have saved. Um, >> go to your smallest debt. >> Yep. So, I I'd throw it at the loan and then the $15,000 car >> and those will be paid off and then you guys just work to pay off the $27,000 car loan.

So theoretically it makes sense to us, but we have we we have it right now sitting like in a a high savings um that we

could easily access and wondering if we should leave any there for things that come up like kids. I mean, we have three little ones. >> We should be doing a budget that includes line items for things that come up with kids.

>> So I'd leave $1,000 in there and then

throw everything else at the debt. Yeah, but don't let kids surprises be called an emergency. Kids equal surprises. And

so you need to have a budget line items that include um suddenly they lost their tennis shoe.

Suddenly they forgot to pay tell me about the field trip.

>> And it's always suddenly when they're seven. >> Um and so yeah, you just you you you anticipate that as a wise parent and you have some of that budgeted in your monthly budget. We don't have an emergency fund and call an un uh

announced field trip an emergency. It's not. It was just a bad communication from a seven-year-old. Lost the paper on the way home thing. Yeah.

So, yeah, that that's what we're going to do there. But you It sounds a lot like Naomi that you guys don't have many

hardcore processes or systems and

systematizing this stuff with a good budget. It sounds very nerdy, but it's also very powerful. It will give you a sense of power over this money. And when you're running loose and hanging by the thread, uh you feel very very vulnerable

all the time when you're making every dollar behave using the every dollar budget. Um you are you don't feel that way anymore. You feel power again. Even if you're even if you're trying to struggle through something, you're at least powerful because we know we got the lights paid.

We know the kids got food. We know the we're not going to get evicted. Um because we've got certain things we know.

And you when you put them all down on paper and you go, "Oh, I got that." Then that's released. And so your your stress level your goes way down as the chaos of

disorganization goes down. And um that's

just not that's not just nerd speak.

It's actually the real thing. It's really what happens. >> Yeah. So instead of just randomly saving money and just not really knowing, you know, what to do with it, everything has a plan. >> Yeah. >> Everything has a purpose. >> Everything has an execution on it. Has it has a name associated with it. So when you get money from your paycheck, it's kind of boring because you'd already spent it on paper. You just have to dole it out according to the plan.

There's no emotion left to it. Um

there's no sense of oh god, this is a problem if you you already had that back when you did the budget. So, you got it all out of the way now. So, you do the budget before the money comes in every

single month. Now, let's get that $27,000 car paid off. That thing's a boss. You may even want to get rid of it.

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Annie's in Los Angeles. Hi, Annie. How are you?

>> How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Um, I appreciate you taking uh my call.

So, here's my question. Uh, I am currently actively on baby step 2, quickly approaching and eagerly approaching baby step three. However, I

have a daughter who is 8 years old. When she gets, you know, uh, money for Christmas, for birthdays, different events, and things like that, we have placed all of that money into her little savers account. Good. Uh now typically what I would do is I would put it into like a six or nine month CD and then um

potentially roll it over CD to CD.

>> Yeah. That or a high that or a high yield. I mean how much is in it?

>> So she has accumulated just over $10,000. >> Good. Good for her. Okay.

>> Yeah. So what I what my is that Right.

>> She's doing better than most adults out there. >> Exactly. So, I just wanted to make sure that I'm doing the best for her money.

And I've heard a lot of things and I don't necessarily want to take advice from people who are not well uh versed

on like college funds and things like that. >> If you were in my shoes, what would you do with that? Would you keep it in the high yield or uh you know, CDs, high yield savings accounts, or would you look at alternative investment opportunities for her? It depends on what you plan to use the money for and that will that will answer your question. So I can tell you what we did.

All right. We had a savings account in

mutual funds for the kids college that we were putting money into. That was their kids college fund and we were funding that. The miscellaneous savings account like you're talking about. We earmark that for the kids to spend and

to learn to spend wisely. And we told

the kids when they were 8 and six and whatever that they need to put money in that account because that was their buy a car account and I'm not buying you a car. You have to buy your own car. I did however agree to match it. We had 401

Dave. You got a lot of money in this account. You may not want to match this one. But um you know Rachel saved up I

think uh $5,000 or 6 $8,000. 8,000. and

I matched it and she got a little $16,000 Beamer, a little used Beamer >> and it was a cute little car and it took her all the way through college if I remember. >> And uh but she paid for half of it with her miscellaneous account. So she threw babysitting money in there, dog sitting money in there, whatever book sales she made at the back table selling Ramsey books at an event when she's 14 years old, all of that went in there and anything she put in there was going to be doubled for her car. So, it was kind of her car fund and that's the way we brainwashed the kids that that's what it's for.

If you're going to do that, a high yield savings is fine.

>> 529. Okay.

>> Yeah. It just depends on what you know what do you want the money to be for.

And here's the thing, the money really doesn't matter.

It's a lot for an 8-year-old, but what matters is the lesson that the kid gets out of this.

>> What are they, what muscle are they building in the financial world? Are they learning to save? Are they learning to work and save to hit a goal like buying a car? Are they learning to work and save to hit a goal like going to college and I'm going to pay part of it so I actually freaking go to class because I paid for it instead of championing in beer pong, right?

It changes the equation when you got skin in the game in these things. And the lesson is what's important, not the dollar amounts.

>> They're not enough to matter.

>> Right. If she learns the smart stuff, she becomes a millionaire off the smart stuff, not the $10,000.

>> Yeah. Exactly. And the the savings part and contributing towards it is uh an

activity that she enjoys.

>> Yeah. There you go. >> And you know, >> it's great. right now her focus and if I was to tell her, hey, this is going to be for your first car, it, you know, that wouldn't really have much impact to her at her state of where she is at 8.

>> But no, we told them real clearly, listen, it's very important. And we would show them cars at 8 years old and go, "This is what this car costs cuz if you don't start saving, you're going to have a nice bike." >> Yeah. But I hear what you're also saying, Annie, that I mean, is there anything in the near future that maybe she wants to save up and pay for, right?

I mean, >> um, and and and I do think that that's what I mean, I have an eight-year-old and that is one thing that we do is, hey, what is something you want?

Caroline literally right now is saving for a mini trampoline cuz we're not buying a trampoline. So, she's going to buy a little mini exercise trampoline.

It's $40 on Amazon and she's working to save for that. So, because So, she's in it. So, she's feeding June. She's taking our dog out. I mean, like she's got her little chores and it's motivated her and so that so I hear what you're saying, Annie, that yes, a car can feel it feels so far for an 8-year-old. But that conversation, >> that is so awesome. >> That conversation >> information I learned on the radio >> is uh Yeah. But

>> the car conversation really really amps up um >> in about in about 20 more minutes when they're ready. >> Well, it's going to be quick. Yeah. But I mean 11 12 13 14 15 I mean they're Yeah, they're they're they're heading that way for sure. And for those of you out there listening, do put a limit on this. I wasn't smart enough to do that.

Rachel saved 8,000.

>> Her little brother had a head start on this cuz he watched his he had watched his two sisters do it. And he's a savings maniac. And um he about broke me

so with the doubling thing. So you do need to put a limit on it. And I had to have a conversation. We're not buying a new Ferrari.

Okay. So um you know, >> he didn't have that. >> I know. But I'm saying I had to have a conversation.

We're not spending that on a car. un 16 years old >> to a degree cuz y'all al you started this plan all of a sudden at the same time. So Denise got the short end of the stick. So she >> Yeah.

She started when she was seven. It was rough for her.

And then I had two years on her and then Daniel had four years. So he had six years more of savings than Denise did.

>> The three of you were so abused.

>> So just saying, "Hey, hang on. We're going to send you a copy of the first bestselling book Rachel Cruz ever did with her dad. It's called Smart Money, Smart Kids." and it's about teaching parents how to teach kids. And so we'll

send you a copy of that as our gift. We appreciate you calling in. Christopher's in Palm Springs. >> You going to do that right now? >> Right now. Do what? >> Okay. Yeah. >> Got about 10 seconds. >> No, we got about four minutes.

Christopher's in Palm Springs. Hi, Christopher. How are you?

>> Oh, we do have Rachel. I am uh very excited to speak with you today. I'm a teacher here in California and just wanted to get your thoughts on how much we should be spending maybe monthly or yearly on our classroom.

Um, I have an unpopular

stance on that and you have you're a great guy and you're a wonderful teacher and so you're not going to go with my

stance. I wouldn't spend a dime on it.

It's not your job. It's my stance. It's the school's job to furnish you the stuff to boo your classroom and the parents ought to get together and furnish whatever you >> Do you have an Amazon wish list Christopher that goes out to the parents?

>> You know I I do not Are you in an underserved community?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> So it won't matter. The parents aren't going to be able or probably willing to help. So, I mean, you've got to be real careful with this because you you're doing this out of your love for the kids and your love of teaching, but you can break yourself with that budget, can't you?

>> Definitely. I've found myself spending thousands a year on it.

>> And really, that's the school board's job is to furnish you the stuff to teach the kids >> and and you know, and or what parents can come around and assist you on it. um

and or contact a local church in the area and let them know you're in an underserved area and see if some see if one of the Sunday school classes or one of the small groups will adopt your classroom or something. Um >> okay, >> we the Ramsey Family Foundation adopted the school, the elementary school for four years that I went to when I was a kid and now it's in an underserved area.

And so we adopted it and even our team goes over there and works and helps and then we put money into the classrooms and all that. It was really fun cuz it's nostalgic for me because it's where I went to where I went to the first grade and all that. So it's kind of cool. But you you know maybe you can find somebody like that to help at some degree.

Maybe not the whole school but somebody help your classroom. And it's just I think it's blatantly unfair for a teacher to have to pay for this. >> Wow. >> I just think it is.

and you guys have got such wonderful hearts and you're so giving to those kids and thank you for that. But be real careful with that. I I don't >> It's a slippery slope.

Yeah. >> You don't you do not have a moral obligation at all to do that.

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Our [Music] scripture of the day, 1 Corinthians 2:9.

It is written, "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived, the things God has prepared for those who love him." Warren Buffett said, "Someone's sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." Adam's in Charleston, South Carolina.

Hi, Adam. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey. Hey Dave, how you doing? Thank you.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um, so first off, appreciate you taking the call. It means a lot. Um, so I'm calling today because I'm in a very tight financial spot currently. Um,

trying to navigate it the best I can.

Uh, basically where I'm at is I don't

think I have an income problem. Um, I do

okay. I'm active duty Navy.

>> So it is a fixed um you know what do you

make but >> uh 72. >> Okay. Your wife work >> just about. Um >> uh no. >> Okay. How many kids you got? >> No. Um two kids. >> Okay. >> Two little girls. >> All right. 7 72,000. Two little girls in Charleston, South Carolina. Gotcha.

>> Yes, sir. Um yeah. a part, you know, a

part of that is going through a divorce.

Um, but I I'm trying to

basically budget for myself and budget for them. Um, and set them up for success. So, like I said, it's kind of

tight right now, but I'm trying to make it work. Um, a lot of that, I would say about 4,000 of that is going

uh out the door immediately to her. Um,

so with what I'm left over, I work with and it it pays the bills. It does what it needs to do. But >> for like child support, >> he's trying to support both households,

>> correct? >> That's not sustainable, bro.

>> Yeah. I mean, because you're probably only bringing home 5,500 a month, right?

>> You're not going to be able to do that long term. >> Yeah. Yeah. This isn't >> Yeah. Yeah. That's >> mathematically doable. Um, >> yeah. It's a sweet It's a sweet sentiment, but it's not going to work,

>> right? >> Okay. So, your your exwife

is going to be working.

>> Uh, that's the hope.

>> No, no, it's not an option. She's not going to be able to eat if she doesn't,

>> right? >> You don't make enough to support two households indefinitely.

nor is that wise.

That's what divorce brings to your ex-wife's life, a new job,

>> regardless of who asked for it or who caused it, >> right? >> So, you'll be paying child support, which is a percentage of your income according to South Carolina law, and you will do that because you're a good dad.

And in addition to child support, you'll do some things here and there because you're a good dad and you love your daughters, but you cannot support two households, sir. That's not sustainable.

>> Is that the expectation, Adam? What What have you guys talked about?

>> Well, yeah. I'd say unfortunately, but

not really. Like, obviously child support will never be an issue. No problem doing that. Um but being in uh when you're active duty there is a instruction in place to protect service member and you know any immediate you know spouse um there is a set limit in

place that you have to abide by which

again no problem but it is a percentage

of what I make. So regardless of if she

works or not that's what has to >> that's fine but it's not it's not 60% of what you make. It's akin It's akin to

child support.

>> Um, yeah, it's >> we work with military for 30 years. The military does not take 60% of a dad's pay for his kids when there's a divorce.

That's not true.

>> You've gotten some bad information.

>> Okay.

Um, yeah. How do I go about this? I guess if I if I'm being told like by the

the military as a whole, this is what I

mean. I guess how do I navigate that?

You're being told by the military that they're going to take 4,000 of your 5,000 and give it to your kids.

>> Yeah, that's uh that's what I've been doing for the last uh 8 months.

>> I understand you've been doing it, but you're saying someone at the military told you that.

>> Correct. >> Okay. You need to go see your senior officer and have some discussions. cuz you got to learn how >> is there lawyers in place, Adam? Like is that what where are you guys at in the divorce?

>> Uh it's so there's no um official, you

know, paperwork or anything yet. It's just uh it's a separation period and we're getting to that point here in the next uh couple weeks. >> Okay? Because a lawyer would know all the divorce law and everything too.

So they'll be >> you can sit down with Jag and they can walk you through it, too. But I'm going to my senior officer and find out you need to learn about what's going on here because I've been working in the military for 35 years. I've never heard this in my life. Now, they do require that you take care of your kids.

I don't have any problem with that, but the child support numbers I've seen are more akin to what the state levies and what the state requires in most cases.

and you know, and you've got to do other things to make sure that you know, for instance, if you've got a security clearance based on your credit, you got to keep your bills paid and those kinds of things. cuz that kind of stuff will come up in this situation. But you may want to sit down at the JAG office. You for sure want to sit down with your senior officer and I think you need to learn something about this cuz this I'm I might be wrong.

I sometimes I I gave out some wrong information last week on this show, but I don't think I'm wrong here.

this. I've never seen it and I've worked with military stuff for 30 years. So and we love the military and we work Thank you for your service, by the way. And but no. All right, Jennifer's in New Jersey. Hey, Jennifer, what's up?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, I was wondering um about the baby

steps. Um, we're trying to pay off some small debts. You know, 10,000 a year, 20. I think they add up to like 50 or 60,000 in various small car loans and personal loans. Um, but my husband and I have a disagreement. I think we should just pay off our work on paying off our mortgage for the next few months because I think that we can and that would open up amount of money to pay off it's like

69,000 and the the monthly payment is 3,700. So

I feel like if we paid that off we would have it would open up all this money to be able to pay off all these other little debts. So 109,000 you're 100%

debtfree house and everything.

>> 109,000.

Oh yes. Yes.

>> How much you guys make a year?

>> Um so my husband makes 190 and I make

150. >> Oh nice. >> So you should pay off all of this in a year.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. You should pay off if you're if you're making 250,000 $300,000.

>> Yeah. you should pay off 109,000 in one year.

>> In which case, this argument doesn't matter.

>> I I suppose that it's it's >> it doesn't matter because you're not going to be doing it long enough that the math matters in your argument.

>> Do it in one year. $8,000 a month.

>> Yeah. >> Why can you not do that? You make $300 and something thousand.

>> I don't know. Oh, I just I think I need to do the every I need to do the every dollar app because >> Yeah, >> I I think it's pretty common like you just don't know where all your money goes. >> I mean, if you But if I if I look at it and I go, okay, you make 300 I don't know what was it 15,000 320 320. Okay.

And we take 109 from that, that only leaves you 200,000 to live on.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> How in the world? And you're in New Jersey, so you got a lot of taxes, but then that's still going to be >> Yeah. >> You know, 120. >> You ain't going on vacation that year, >> right? >> And you're not going to eat out every night, >> right? >> And there's not going to be $1,000 bottles of wine on the equation.

>> But yeah, you're actually going to get out of debt. So yeah, you do need to get on the every dollar budget because 300 and something thousand minus 109 equals 200 and something thousand to live on.

Go do it. Right. Seriously, bust it.

Bust it, girl. And if you The point, too, being if you're going to do this in one year, you could do the mortgage first. I don't care because you're going to do the whole stinking thing in one year, okay? And then the 3500 a month

being freed up, it only matters for about 3 months. So, it doesn't matter because it it changes the whole equation. If you're going to drag this sucker out for four years, then we could talk about your equation because it does kind of start to make sense then. Not sure I would do it, but it starts to make sense.

It's a fun argument at that point, but for one year, nah, knock it out. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 249. You Can't Out Earn Bad Financial Behaviors | June 4, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Wentz Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. We're so glad you're here. Jade Wshaw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. We're glad you're here. Open phones at8255225.

TJ starts us off in Kansas City. Hi TJ.

What's up?

>> Hey guys. Glad to have uh glad you have me on today. I'm doing good.

>> Well, we're honored to have you. How can we help?

>> So, um just in kind of a position where

my family's living paycheck to paycheck

kind of thing and we've tried all kinds

of stuff. We've gone through uh financial advisors and coaches at our banks and all that and we're just hitting a wall where we just feel stuck and know that some patterns or behaviors somewhere have to change.

>> So when you looked at that with the various coaches um did you find that

there was a spending problem or did you find that there was an income problem?

Um what I what I heard most was it looks

like you need to generate more income.

Um that's what I heard. Um but we never could you know >> what is your income?

>> So I I gross around 69,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what do you take home monthly?

>> Monthly I net around 5,026

I think. Something like that. >> Okay. What about your wife?

>> My wife doesn't have an income. She's um

she homeschools our kids and takes her motherly responsibilities pretty seriously. >> Okay. How old are the kids?

>> Nine, 11, and five.

>> Okay. Uh I agree. You probably are

facing uh an income issue. You're below

the national average there. And so you are going to feel that. Um, I'm assuming there's debt involved as well, >> correct? Um, yeah, you know, those that's definitely the the biggest hurdle is if we could get out from underneath like one thing, it'd probably give us some wiggle room for other things.

>> Absolutely. You'd feel that snowball effect. So, tell us about the debt that you have.

>> Um, we we do, you know, I say own loosely, but we do own our house um through mortgage. >> Okay. We we have a couple of different credit cards, a vehicle loan and student

loans >> for >> Tell us the credit cards. Tell us the car and tell us the student loans.

>> Okay, gotcha. So, the student loans um

are only mine and they total about 62,000.

The mortgage, the remaining balance is

200,500.

>> Okay.

The vehicle loan is about 19,000.

>> Okay. >> And both credit cards are around about 8.5,000 each.

>> Okay. So 16,000.

>> You guys are normal.

>> But normal s but normal sucks.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. I mean you got like the the kind

same kind of debt most people have. Car debt, credit card debt, a student loan that's been around so long. I think it's a pet. How long y'all been married?

>> Um 12 years this August.

>> So the student loans 14 years old.

>> I graduated in 2012 with those and so

>> I'll be 14 years old. >> Are you using that degree TJ?

>> Not directly. I want to have one.

So, I actually work for um an antique

store uh that specializes in antique books and firearms. Um very high

collectibles.

>> What do you do? Just your retail there.

>> Uh kind of sort of. I I'm the shipping coordinator. I also do um a lot of the research for the individual items and things like that. >> What's your degree?

I graduated from a Bible college with a youth and family degree, a youth and family ministry degree.

>> Okay. >> So, the part about you using your degree is you're not, which is okay, but you're not at all on >> I'm using it in that it's a placeholder on a on a resume.

>> Yeah. The reason I asked is because I I do agree with what everyone else has said, which is you do need to get your income up because uh when you get your income up, you're going to have more margin available to you and then you'll be able to use that margin, which is extra money after everything is minimum payments and everything else is satisfied. That extra margin is what you use to pay off your debt using the debt snowball. And you were absolutely right.

If you listed these out from smallest to largest, so in this case, one of the $8,000 credit cards would be first. If you freed up one of those credit card bills, that's a little bit more margin that now you're adding to your life, a little bit more room to breathe that allows you to pay off then the next $8,000 credit card. Do you see how this works? So, I I I agree with you. So, the question is, how can we add more income?

Um, I'm I there's you who can go out and

get some temporary side hustles, right?

I think that you've got something tells me you've got some extra hours in the day that you could do that. Not ideal, but you've got the time. And then I'm also looking over at your wife who's got some margin for time. Uh she's homeschooling and I do want to call this out. That's a personal choice. That's a values choice. But as she's homeschooling, it's also meaning that she's not adding uh a paycheck to the

mix. And that's a choice that you guys are making. So everything if if I'm looking at your situation, suddenly everything is on the table. >> Yeah. And we can say >> here's the thing. Nothing changes until something changes. So Jade's exactly right. And what the people that you've been with before have not told you and we're going to be brave enough because we love you to tell you the truth is you're going to have to get radical to break this cycle. Beans and rice, rice

and beans. You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job. You're not going on vacation cuz you're broke people and broke people aren't going on vacation. You're going to get this stinking car paid off or you're going to sell it. She's going to pick up a side hustle. You're going to pick up a side hustle. You guys are going to sell so much stuff the kids think they're next.

We are going on a mission to clean these debts up. And tonight, you're going to get both credit cards out and look at them together with a candle lit and have a ceremony, a plastic surgery party, and chop those stupid butt things up. And we're going to get on an every dollar budget, and we're going to get so fired up and wired up because I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. When you get that going, you'll get out of debt.

But you will not get out of debt doing what you're doing because what you're doing is running like a rat in a wheel getting no traction.

>> I do I have two very specific nuance questions that I think could at least like um me a bit better of of pathing.

>> Yeah, ask them. >> Um one the first one regarding the credit cards. I did recently do a balance transfer from one card to another. Regardless of how we feel about balance transfers, that specific card

has a 0% interest rate until October of 2026. Am I better off paying towards the

0% interest rate?

>> It's your smallest debt anyway. It's your smallest debt anyway. So, it honestly doesn't matter. Um, >> I don't care. I don't care. I don't care about interest rates are not your problem. Cash flow is your problem.

>> Okay? You need rid of the debt so you don't have payments.

>> The number one thing >> and when you don't have payments, you're going to have margin. That's what Jade's been saying. >> The number one thing on your checklist, TJ, is tonight you sit down with your wife. You need to make sure you both have this equal level of intensity on what it's going to take to get out of this.

And the two of you are going to brainstorm what are you going to do with your extra time to make money and what am I going to do with my extra time to make money. And you don't stop the conversation until two of you the two of you have lists of jobs that you'll be applying for in the morning. >> Yeah.

Where you make 169, not 69.

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Carl is in New York City. Hi, Carl.

What's up?

>> Well, I pushed the button. We could talk to you, Carl. I'm sorry. Let's try again. What's up, Carl?

>> I'm making about $200,000 a year and I'm

having a real hard time budgeting. Uh, I was in trouble with uh, credit card debt, which um, I have since put a band-aid on it, but I'm looking for a tool to be able to move forward so I don't fall back into that credit card debt. >> Okay. When you say you're struggling to budget $200,000, what do you mean exactly? Tell us exactly what you mean by that.

>> You know, I just feel my my day-to-day um, puts me a bit upside down and then I wind up leaning on credit cards. uh just not uh disciplined enough so to speak and I feel that a budget and putting putting certain monies aside specifically for the mortgage and and you know groceries and and day-to-day things would would help me save more >> and be able to become a little bit more independent or and not you know so upside down. Um, I mentioned I had uh

$27,000 in credit card debt.

>> Mhm. >> And I went ahead and took a second mortgage uh because it was a lot better than 30%. Right. Um, so I have an 8%

loan now on my second mortgage. Still have decent equity in my home.

>> And but you're still doing the same now.

>> Yeah. >> And it's going to it's going to get worse every time you do this. Yeah.

>> You treated the symptom, not the problem. The symptom is credit card debt. problem is you spend more than you make.

>> Exactly. >> So why do you spend more than you make?

What's it going to?

>> Well, historically it went to um just

necessities as I call I mean maybe living outside of our budget. Um spending too much on dinners, uh going out drinking, uh buying stuff for the house, cars, motorcycles. I mean that that list can go on and on. But I feel like I have a better handle on that now.

I'm not doing that anymore >> because you're using a budget.

>> Well, yeah. Yeah, I had a budget, but it

kind of fell apart. I don't have a budget currently, but I want to put one in place. >> So, how much debt do you guys have, Carl? Not counting your house.

>> I am happy to say nothing. What about the well the 27,000 that you rolled into the second mortgage and there's nothing beyond that? >> No car debt. >> That's correct. No student loan debt all bundled in. >> So what? >> No student loan. >> How much is your house payment?

>> Uh 20. It'll be $2,800.

Now with the home equity, it was 20.

>> Okay. So if I take 200,000 minus 2,800 a

month, >> there's a lot left over.

Yes, I agree. You want to know what I think? I I I know where it's all going.

And you're not the first one to fall victim to this. You make a fine income.

It's a great income. You guys probably feel like you make a great income. And you've given yourself the excuse to be sloppy >> because you think that you can outearn bad financial choices and it always comes back to bite you in the butt. And that's what's happened to you. So, I think what's happened is it's not a budget problem. It is a I it's a self-control problem, right? Cuz you put those items, those line items, you say, "I'm only spending $500 on going out to

eat or I'm only spending $1,000 on groceries." And the self-control problem comes when you start to butt up against that line item amount. And then you say, you know, I'm just going to do it anyway, right?

>> Yes. >> I know I've overspent. I'm just going to do it anyway. And so that's a that's a personal problem. It's not a budget problem. I don't disagree. I don't disagree. There's one Yeah, there there's one more tivot to the to the equation. Yes, I make 200. Uh, however,

I'm I have a $100,000 base. The other

100,000 comes in two payments throughout the year in a bonus check.

>> Okay. >> So, it's that eb and flow. So, every six months, yeah, sure, I get the lion share, but throughout the uh other month is where I get myself in that trouble.

and I feel that a proper budgeting tool would help me become more disciplined.

And that's what I'm having. >> Let's pretend for a second that um let's just make up a number. Okay.

>> Mhm. >> Uh I'm we're going to put you on Every Dollar, the world's best budgeting tool that we've developed because we're the best at this. And and you and your wife are going to sit down and give every dollar an assignment before the month begins. Now, let if we could pan back a

little bit. You're going to have to walk into this carefully, and I don't know exactly how you're going to walk into it, but here's a plan. Let's pretend

that out of the next budget, out of the next bonus, which is half of your income, and that's a strain. That's where the strain's coming from. That's a good that's a good point of information, by the way. Thank you for telling us that. Um, so let's pretend that you need

$124,000, which is approximately or let's say $120,000, $10,000 a month minus taxes. So I need $10,000 a

month to operate, but I've only got $8,000 cuz I only got 100 8,300 because I only got a hundred coming in. You follow me?

>> Yes. So, out of the next bonus check, I

set aside $20,000

to subsidize my monthly baseline.

Follow me? >> Gotcha. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I'm writing it down. >> And so, or you can set aside if you want to make it even $24,000. That'd be $2,000 a month. So, out of my next bonus check, I said $24,000 into a separate savings account. Each month I move $2,000 over plus I have my hundred to work with. And I set my budget on that.

And then anything else in the budget, anything else in that bonus can go to reduce these debts

>> and to build wealth and to buy things.

If we were going to go on a trip, we'd take it out of a bonus check after we pulled our 24 out. Okay? If we were going to go buy a couch, we'd take it out of the bonus check in cash. if after

we pulled our 24 out. You know what I'm saying? So, >> yes, >> you know, you got a $50,000 bonus check twice a year. We're going to pull 24 out uh at least once a year or maybe 12 out of each one. Okay? And then that gives me some other amount of money out of that bonus. And you already need to have it also allocated before it comes.

Every dollar needs to be spent on paper and be in agreement with your spouse before it comes into your house.

and then stick to the plan the two of you wrote down and you pinky swear and spit shake and make a contract.

>> So there's no magic tool. This is just something I can build myself.

>> I'm going to give you the every dollar budget. That's the tool cuz it's a system that'll show you how to work the Ramsy process. But what I just designed for you is is a customized version.

Yeah. But to to deal with your

volatile income, your ir your, you know, because you probably can't live on a hundred, >> right? >> By the time you pay your house payment, your groceries, if you can, well, then you got another hundred to throw at stuff as it comes in, right?

>> Which will clean up all these debts real quick. >> I mean, a h 100red,000 to clean up almost every debt but your house.

>> Mhm. >> You No, you only have them. You You don't have anything.

Knock the second mortgage out. The first bonus check. Right.

>> Right. >> And no more credit cards. Cut them up.

>> Did you cut them up? >> You cut them up and use a debit card. We do not spend money. We do not have >> in the wallet. >> No, you got to cut them up. You got to take them out of the wallet and cut them up. >> They have to be They have to die. The accounts need to be closed. Debit cards only. The debit card will do everything the credit card will do except get you into debt.

>> Yeah. >> And and also something cool happens when you cut them up. You don't have anything to fall back on. So, you have to manage your money. You have to do it the correct way. Otherwise, when you run out, you you run out and there's nothing else you can spend on. So, that's good.

Um, yeah, every dollar is going to help you. It's going to be great. >> Yeah. Hang on. We'll have Christian pickup. We'll put you in the premium version. We'll pay for it and get you started. It's a free app, people, that you can download, but the upgrade version uh has it automatic downloads from your debit card usage from your bank. And so, it keeps everything up, keeps everything current automatically for you. It's very powerful tool. And it

actually has built into it all of the Ramsey system, the baby steps and shows you everything you need to do. And um you know, when you lay it out and the first time you do it, you're going to sit down. You're going to you're going to say, "Where's all my money been going?" >> Cuz here's 3,000 bucks. I can't I can't I don't know where it's been going.

>> Yeah. >> Everyone has that happen.

>> Um, >> but stick with it. Don't just do this one time in the first month. If you're in the red, quit. Stick with it. It takes most people 90 days to start locking in and really get the feel for it. So, stick with it. Don't quit after one month.

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Seth is in Boca Raton. Hi, Seth. How are

you?

I'm I'm wonderful. Thank you for taking the call. It's great to speak with you both. So Dave, before I ask you my money question and your and the specific advice, I'll give you a quick uh family dynamic and my specific financial vitals. So I'm 52 years old. Um I'm

single. Uh no kids. Uh no debt. I've been in debt.

I went bankrupt 20 years ago. Fortunately, uh I'm I'm in a lot better place. I make between $1,500 and $2,000 a week in cash. I work in the restaurant business, so it varies.

Um I own my car. Uh, it's just me and my doggy. Uh, I have $60,000 cash in the bank, so I'm doing okay. The bad news is I have no retirement.

So, the good news is is that my father um who who's so I decided to move to Florida a couple years ago when I realized my father's health was declining with Alzheimer's dementia. I have an older brother. So, the family dynamic is myself and my older brother. We never got along very well growing up and and most of our adult life.

But now with regards to my dad's health, uh it's actually helped bring our relationship to uh you know much stronger and it's a blessing and and it's a blessing. It's a blessing for me as an adult son to be able to move to Florida to make sure my dad is okay. Um we moved him into a retirement or I should say an assisted living and now in memory care. Um fortunately my father was always wonderful with money in terms of saving.

Unfortunately my mom passed and then so did my dad's second wife. So my dad is 84 as I mentioned. He has a long-term health care um policy which is paying for his assisted living. So really he, you know, we don't need to spend any any money really a month to take care of his needs. My dad's estate, we had a conversation, my brother and I, with with his financial adviser. My dad's estate is worth just under $5 million.

Um he's got about 900 800ish uh in an

IRA and then he has, you know, two accounts with Morgan Stanley. What we learned is that of that Morgan Stanley account, we kind of hit the stock lottery, Dave. My dad had a stock that he purchased for $22 a share, a thousand shares, and it's now trading at over $1,000 a share. So, we have about a million dollar position on one stock.

I think I know your answer, but I'm asking your advice. You know, do we do we sell off some of the stock? Obviously, move that then to a mutual fund. You know, how do we do it?

What's the best strategy?

>> So he has you said $22,000

invested in what turned into a million dollars.

>> That's correct. Yep. The $22 cost basis.

Y and we know that if we sold it, then there's, you know, long-term g there's long-term gain. But then, you know, if we keep it and then he passes away, we then get that that nuke step up basis.

so on and so forth. But but I know that 25% of his net income >> on what you've got to weigh out is the risk of a single stock >> is substantial because whatever that company does such so does the million dollars, right? >> If that owner comes out and decides he's going to be in the Epstein files and the stock goes the guy the CEO and the stock goes in half, then you lost a half million dollars.

>> Okay? That's because you got it in one thing. That's the risk. Okay. The

>> Yeah. >> Uh if you decide I don't want the risk, you're going to have $150,000 in capital gains tax. He's going to have 150,000 in

capital gains tax. Y'all are managing it for him. Okay. Uh and as you said, on

the that's on the one hand. On the other hand, if we leave it alone, we don't have any taxes, but we have the risk. Um

and he passes away, there'll be no taxes on it. So, it's a $150,000 decision. So, I'm going to weigh $150,000 in taxes against the risk that

this particular company is going to

somehow tank before this elderly, fragile man passes away.

>> You see what I'm saying? >> My brother had Yeah. Well, we wouldn't sell the full position. the the thought on our call on Monday was to maybe sell off like 20 25%. So we're talking about a a much smaller tax bill of you know 30 or 40,000 on a $200,000.

>> So here so the answer is this is let's

just be >> uh inappropriately callous. Okay. Can I

can I just be mean a minute? It sounds mean because I'm talking about your dad.

Okay. But as long as he passes away before this company does something wrong, >> then you would not have wanted to move it. So the sooner he passes away versus the risk, the less the less you would want to do that. And so uh I'm gauging his health and his situation

mathematically sadly uh against whether

we begin to move some of this away. Um and that that's what you do. So who is the company? Is it Apple?

>> No, it's Micron.

>> Hm.

Interesting. Micron. Micron is up 900%

in in one calendar year. Yeah. If you look at I'm sure you're probably familiar with them. You know, they do the AI chip and and it's it's it's literally like I call it a stock lottery.

So, >> yeah. My dad wouldn't >> it's a very it's a very volatile volatile position. >> Yeah. >> Um >> so do you so do you think do you think selling off 20% of that and then putting that couple hundred,000 in a mutual fund is it safer?

Kind of lowers our position and our risk a little bit. Is that a smart decision or >> um Yes.

to sell off 20% every year

until he passes. >> Yeah, that's that's kind of that's kind of what my brother and I were talking.

>> Yeah. >> Is there are there different strategies, Dave, that are beneficial like in terms of when we do decide to sell? Like I heard something about a covered call like or is that just >> No, I wouldn't get into all that. I would just say I'm weighing the stepped up basis against the risk of a highly volatile tech AI company. This is not a

this is not a steady I mean they're not a bad company. I'm not trashing them but

this is a sudden leap up which also is

um you know more accustomed to a sudden leap down. If this was something boring like Apple would be much more boring.

Agreed.

>> Yeah. Sure. Okay. >> So that that's and at at the stock price you were mentioning that's what kind of what I thought it was but that anyway but that one's been more of a steady thing where you know AI and microchip is just like suddenly on the scene and suddenly off the scene and suddenly it won't matter and suddenly nobody will care and it'll be worth zero. I Yeah, that scares me.

>> So I kind of thought that on on a separate subject um my dad happens to be a plaintiff in a class action lawsuit.

um his second wife passed and and and there's a class action lawsuit that he's involved in. If if my dad was to pass

before we got litigation because currently we're in litigation. We're basically waiting to, you know, see what the offer is in terms of our specific case with my dad's second wife. In your experience, would that still like if the if the plaintiff passes, meaning my dad,

does that then and then there's a judgment rendered, would that then go to my dad's estate, which is basically the trust of my brother and I have, or does that lawsuit go away? Just curious on that. So, the hedge on the phone and thank you again so much for everything you do. >> I'm not a legal expert.

I think it'll go to the estate, but I would ask an attorney to get a real opinion about that. My opinion is probably worth what you paid for it there, but I think it is.

talking gobbledegoop there for a minute.

Um, when someone has paid $22,000 for a stock that's worth a million dollars,

if you transfer it, if you cash it out,

obviously before you die, you um pay

taxes on the difference, the gain. If

instead it passes to your heirs,

they pay taxes on the difference in market value and whatever they sell it for. And if you sell it within 6 months of death, it is presumed to be market value by the IRS. So zero taxes on a

million dollar gain at death or taxes on

everything over 22,000 on a million bucks. So, basically a million dollar gain is a $150,000 swing in taxes. Uh if

they if these two brothers receive this

money with the stepped up basis to market value, they have no taxes

upon dad's death. But if the stupid thing goes in half, >> right, >> before then, you'll wish you had paid some taxes. >> And that's kind of what he's weighing out and what we were weighing out with him. But um yeah, it comes down to how

much faith do you have in that particular company to stay stable >> and how much faith do you have in sadly dad's health? >> I mean that's that's being very callous.

But that's the that's the mathematical analysis and then you've got to you know cry a little bit and have your heart in that and say out loud this is an awkward discussion weird to talk about but it's weird for me to sit down with my whole family and go over my estate plan once a year. If I die, wait a minute, people.

I'm still sitting here. But if I die this year, this is what it's going to happen. The if Dave dies this year meeting, it's very awkward.

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Gabby is in Gainesville, Florida. Hi Gabby. How are you?

Well, I'll keep doing that. Gabby, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you, Dave and Jade? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> All righty. So, um, my husband and I

just got married in January, and since

before we got married, we were starting on the baby steps cuz we both had student loan debt and a bit of credit card debt. Um, however, my husband owns

our house with his mother with his mother and my mother-in-law. um because they bought the house after he graduated college as an investment for him and she plans on um moving the ownership to myself within the next month or two. Um but she also plans on refinancing the house, but to do so it's tied with my husband's credit score and one of our biggest um debt sums is his credit card.

So she's been pressuring us to um make sure we pay that down. But since we've been following the baby steps, we've been going with our smallest debts first. So basically, my question is, should we focus on paying down his credit card so that we can refinance the house um or should we stick to the >> So how much is on the credit card?

>> It's about um 12,000. >> Okay. And how much is um the other debts?

>> So my student loans are about 14.

>> His student loans are 12.

>> Mhm. My credit card is eight.

>> Um, and his credit card is 12.

>> Yeah, you already gave me That's the one you already gave me, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. So, they're all fairly close. >> Yes. >> And your um And your household income now is what?

>> It's about 100K.

>> Okay. >> When you do the refi, what's the interest rate moving to?

>> So, they've been waiting for the interest rates to drop. Uh right now it's at 7% but they're hoping for at least five four percent.

>> What's it current I'm saying currently? >> It's currently seven.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Cuz the market rate right now is about five, right?

>> You need to talk to Church Hill Mortgage about your refinance. Okay. And get a 15-year fixed rate because you should be somewhere in that 5% range >> in the marketplace right now. And that's a wonderful savings as well.

>> That would be great. So, let me um

say something to uh as preventative medicine that's not the answer is yes.

Pay down the credit card because they're all fairly similar and this accomplishes a bigger goal and it's not because she's pressuring. It's because um she's offering. >> So, um I I I don't understand how we got

here with him and his mom owning the house together. that's not bothering me as much. And and what I want to make sure you hear is this lady is um

we we get all the calls that this went the other way. Like she's being hard to get along with and she doesn't want to

help you get out of it and she wants to stay on it and you think you have to own this house with your mother-in-law forever. And that's who we that's the call we usually get. This lady's going is very healthy in saying, "I want to put it into my new daughter-in-law's name as fast as I can." That is the right mother-in-law answer. You have You have a peach of a mother-in-law.

She's awesome. >> Oh, I definitely do. I >> It's just been a little bit stressful because we actually recently found out that we're also pregnant and >> Oh, wow.

>> That is so awesome. Very cool. Well, now she's going to be super nice.

>> Oh, yeah.

I love it. Hey, good for you. Yeah, I I I want to give her some props because she's uh she wins the mother-in-law of the year award on this show. No, most of the time the mother-in-law in this situation is a test pilot for a broom factory. And so, this one is really doing a good job. And uh so I want to

help her. I want you to appreciate her and to help her. Uh, and because she's really just handing you the keys to this thing, y'all got to just get the paperwork transferred, right?

>> Mhm. This is great. There's no other money involved this. >> That's so cool.

Yeah. We just got to get the refinance, get her name off the loan, and then she deeds it over to him and to the new daughter-in-law. That is awesome. And that only costs 12,000 bucks.

We make a hundred. Uh, I want y'all to work extra. I want you to sell stuff. Any wedding gifts that go back that you had duplicates of, turn them into cash and throw them on the credit card.

Uh, chop up all credit cards. Get on an every dollar budget. We're going to give it to you as a wedding gift. Uh the premium version and get you signed up.

The two of you sit down and just wear that thing out. You're going to come up with 12 grand in like uh 3 months.

>> Yeah, that would be great. >> Yeah. >> Um just a one more side point because I'm pregnant and we recently found this out so we haven't hit all the bills yet. How do we uh attack the baby steps moving forward?

Do we set aside part of We've been paying off debt at least $1,500 a month

since we started in January.

>> Yeah. I want to get you I want to get that credit card gone and then I want you to stop paying off debt.

>> Okay. >> I want you to stack cash until the baby comes. >> Okay. >> It sounds like you've listened to us before. We call it stork mode.

>> Yeah. So, while you're in STO mode till baby comes, we stack cash. And we don't use the cash. We're not building out a nursery.

We're using the cash to to pay off debt after you come home and the baby's okay and you're okay after you come home from the hospital. But this is just an extra little pad while we're pregnant. But before that, uh the first three months right here of your your first three your first trimester, we're knocking out that debt before we do go to STO mode cuz I got to get this house transferred. >> Yeah.

And that's where the side hustling has to come in. Otherwise, the math won't work.

and that's it. No, we got to get we got to get to 3,000 or 4,000.

>> Exactly. >> I And I'm We're going to squeeze this budget down super tight. We're going to work extra. And again, I'm selling everything in sight.

>> I really am. Cuz if you can get this house transferred and be rid of this one thing and then you stack cash till baby comes, you're going to be in a really peaceful situation.

>> Yeah. Margin's got to double.

>> Yeah. That that's very for a short period of time. I want y'all to go cray cray and knock this out. If you live like no one else later you get to live and give like no one else. Janice in Norfolk, Virginia. Hi Janice. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for speaking with me. Um, last night my mother gifted me

$53,000 and I am just wondering if I should put

that toward my mortgage, which is currently $215,000 at the 2.5 interest

rate. Or my concern is that all my

parents life they have been financially frugal, but they have not saved. They inherited quite a bit of money from a family member who passed and since then have been a little bit less uh

conservative with their money. So I'm worried that as they get older, I do know that they are currently spending more money per month than what they bring in with >> How much money did they inherit?

>> Over a million.

>> And that's >> why 53,000. Where' that number come from? Uh, it was a family thing. One person got that amount and so to to be fair, I also got that amount. I don't need the money, but the other person >> Um, let me let me help you. She's going to get hammered with gift tax unless she's got some estate planning going on.

>> Well, that is also part of my concern when I was looking up. Yeah. If you >> individual can give an individual 19,000 before you get into gift tax of 55%.

>> Mhm. They don't know anything about any of this and they just write checks.

>> Um, well, this is the largest check that I have received from them.

>> So, are you married?

>> No. >> Okay. Well, they can each give you 19.

So, that'd be 38. But everything above that, unless they file some paperwork called a unified estate tax credit and use up some of their estate exemption, which they can do pretty easily, they're going to get hammered with gift tax. You can't just hand out money unless it's a 501, unless it's a a properly done uh nonprofit and you're

not. So, uh, mom and dad need to get some tax advice and quit being ignorant.

They're about to get their butts kicked in an audit really bad because they

didn't half learn what they were doing.

So, I don't care. Out of a million, if they gave you a 53, they gave somebody else 53, they're probably okay. I'd put it on my mortgage. I wouldn't worry about the gift. I just worry about mom and dad anymore. They have less than 500,000.

So it's not they don't have a million anymore. They have less than 500.

>> You're worried that they're going to come knocking on your door when they blow through all this money and now they're going to be >> No, I don't think they would do that because they they would not ask me for that. But I feel, you know, compelled

more. If your house is paid, if your house is paid off because you use this to accelerate the payoff, then when they are in trouble someday, you'll be in a better position to help them. So, I'd put it on the house.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Jade Wshaw Ramsay personality number one bestselling author is my co-host. Ricky is in Riverside, California. Hi Ricky.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well. just a little nervous, but uh happy to be on talking to you guys. >> You too. What's up?

>> Um I have a pretty stressful situation

that my wife and I are going through. Um I've been animating and games making pretty decent money for the past four years. Um and I've recently lost that

job about a month ago. Um, and now just

doing the budget over the weekend, um, it showed that we were short about $3,000 this month just with the mortgage

and all of our bills and just groceries and

all that. Um, so I've been trying to figure out what is the best path and the

only thing that I can think of is possibly selling our house. Um, but I've

listened to you guys in the past and I'm not sure if like our situation warrants

that or if there's anything else that I can do, but um, just incredibly stressed. >> Not bad. I'm sorry.

>> That's scary. So, you were an animator, did you say?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> And you were making uh, I was on average it was 120 uh to

150. recently. Most recently, I was making 130.

>> Mhm. >> Um I just got a job at uh Home Depot.

>> Good. >> About 6 weeks ago. And um

sorry.

I'm sorry. Um

I'm making uh 21 an hour. So I think that's

like uh 40 40k. Um so I just I don't

know if I should >> Yeah. Is your Is your wife working outside the home? Sure.

>> Yes. She works for the state of California. Uh she makes about her take-home pay is 4,000. Um it would be higher, but they automatically deduct um her retirement. And >> what does she do there? >> Health insurance. Uh she licensed uh she

checked the licenses for foster care facilities. So >> Okay. And what what did the animation

job go away?

>> Uh it's just been the industry's been really rough. Um the the one that I just had was just a contract position um after a layoff that I had last year. Um

so this was the contract from September to the end of April. And right around the new year, I I've been applying, reaching out to old co-workers, anybody that I can, recruiters on LinkedIn, anyone, anyone that had any sort of connection. Um, I've had interviews. I had an interview recently at Apple. Just found out I didn't get it yesterday. Um,

interviewed the other game studios. I get close and then it's usually that final interview where I just don't seem to get it. Um, so I just I haven't been able to line up another animation job.

So you you but it sounds like there is jobs out there in this industry that the industry isn't dying.

>> Um you just hadn't landed after your last contract. You haven't landed the new gig is all.

>> In my opinion, I think it's it's dying.

During the pandemic, it was doing really well because everybody was stuck home gaming. So gaming studios overhired, things leveled back out and uh games

aren't doing nearly as well. So there's >> is gaming what you were doing before?

Yeah, I I've been doing game animation.

>> How is AI affecting animation?

>> I think it's I think it is starting to affect it to a degree. Um I think like

just like commercials are starting to use AI more that takes jobs away from animators. Um I don't think it's really

affected games yet, unless I just don't know. But it's it's affecting like movies and TV and advertising for sure.

Okay.

All right. Um,

but you're bringing in um

$3,000 a month and she's bringing in four and you're still three short.

>> Yeah, I have more. >> How much debt do you guys have? Not counting your house.

>> Uh, not counting the house. I did the math. It was about 160,000.

>> What?

Uh my student loans were 55,000. Um my

wife's are 20,000. We do have a car uh

for 40,000.

Um and just a couple of like personal loans like one for 17,000, another one for 10. Uh another for five. We owe

10,000 to the IRS from taxes not not

getting enough taken out of checks.

>> Okay.

All right. So, the levers to pull are um

before I'd sell the house, I'd sell the car and I'd sell it tomorrow. Um and and

get get out of a $40,000 car, get into a $5,000 car. Um >> and I would let the student loan put the student loans on hardship deferral temporarily. I'm trying to get cash flow going here. Um and then you need but if

you're going to pay something, you pay food first, lights and water second, house third.

and cars and car gasoline forth to get

to work. So, food, shelter, transportation, and utilities before you do anything, before those cards or are loans, student loans or anything else gets paid. Okay. But yeah, I'd get rid of the car immediately.

>> Um and um then I would set a

you know, I pick up another second job to go with this one. Yeah, I was going to say >> and fill in the blank here because you're not working 40 at Home Depot >> and can your wife pick up a side hustle as well?

>> Maybe my wife's they on Monday um I had

breakdown at work so they they actually converted me to full-time on the spot which was super nice. So I'm working 40 hours now. >> That's all though. I mean you can work another 30.

>> Yeah, I can. >> Yeah, I'm not I'm not This is not a permanent solution. I'm trying to keep the water in the lake uh while we get a

a new position as a as an animator.

>> Okay. Um and then what I would do, so let let's pretend that you can strain and work 60 70 hours and she can work 60 70 hours. We sell the car. We're on beans and rice, rice and beans. We having a garage sale. We got so much stuff on Craigslist. The children think they're next. You know, we're really we're really dumping stuff out of here and we can barely hold on. That's what I

want to get to, right? >> And I think you can get there. >> I think you can get there. >> But that's a temporary thing. And then I would say if I don't land an animator's job and get my income back up to get us back to where we can breathe again within x number of months, then we're

going to sell the house. And so like three months, four months.

>> Okay. >> You can't sustain the thing I'm talking about for six years. >> No. This is a short term.

>> So, we're saying, you know, we're going to give this until after Christmas.

We're going to give this until Thanksgiving. Um, but, you know, if

we're thinking about selling a house, we would want to sell it after the first of the year. So, if you could hang on for 6 months doing this, uh, and if you haven't landed the animator job in 6 months, then yeah, you probably do need to do something different. You need to adjust your career.

>> Okay. The other thing I would advise you and I am not an AI expert by any stretch of the imagination although Ramsay is spending a lot of time on it here. Uh the people inside this building are um it is not the answer to everything. It is artificial. It is not real. Uh but it

is affecting disrupting some of these industries. And if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to learn what it's doing to my industry and I'm going to start learning how to use it instead of it putting me out of business.

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Sophia is in Maine. Hi Sophia, how are

you? Hi, I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm a going into my junior year in

college and I want to study abroad next

semester. Well, next spring in 2027,

but it's a good chunk of money and so I would probably have to take a loan out for it. So, I'm wondering if it's a good idea to do that. >> Should I take out a loan to go on a European vacation?

Well, um >> that's what studying abroad is, Sophia.

>> Yes, I know.

>> How much does it cost to study abroad?

>> So, the including literally everything, tuition, home and board, and even like spending money, they estimated it around um 18 to 20,000.

>> Okay. 18 to 20,000. Do you have any sort of job or any work that you're doing right now? Yeah, I made about I I go to school

full-time, but I made about $25,000 last

year. >> Okay. >> I think around that. >> Are there scholarships for this?

>> Yeah. So, all of my scholarships for my home university will transfer. So, I um I'll get about like 8,000 covered.

>> Okay. >> And then my own personal savings um I

don't have to pay until October. And so, I'm planning on saving like everything until then. So, I think I'll be able to get like a good probably another 8,000

on that. >> Okay. >> So, we're getting close. >> Yeah, we're getting close. But you you >> are spending every single dime you can scrape up >> on a European vacation while you're a broke college student.

>> Well, I mean, I don't care.

>> I mean, this has absolutely no economic or marketplace value, honey. Zero.

What are you studying? >> You're not going to come home and go, "Oh, every employer in Maine is going to line up to hire me because I studied abroad for one semester." Zero chance.

>> Yeah. >> This is a fun vacation thing to do.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm 19. >> Yeah. I I You know, if your parent if

your parents are rich, >> that's fine. But I would not tell a 19-year-old person that I love to spend their very last dime to go on vacation.

>> How are your other semesters being paid for? Obviously, you've got the $8,000 scholarship. How are your other semesters at home being covered?

>> Um I go to college for free, so I don't have I don't have any um student loans at all. >> I will say this, and this is Jade's opinion, I traveled right out of college

for work. I was getting paid to travel, so that is a big differentiator. But I think traveling is one of the best things that you can do for yourself.

It's a different type of education. Um I

personally think that if you can cash flow this, I wouldn't stop you from doing it. But >> Mhm.

>> Dave, dad has told us something else.

>> Jade Jade and I can disagree and both be right. >> That's okay. Yeah, >> we can disagree and both be right. That's all right. >> Yeah. >> I I um >> Yeah. So I I I look at educ here's the

problem.

Okay. Um

the the if you qualify this as a vacation

>> and you say I'm going to spend all of my

year saving up to go on vacation cuz I value travel like Jade is talking about.

>> And you want to do it there. And you put that in that slot, that bucket in your brain. I'll back off a little bit and

not yell at Jade. Okay. >> $12,000 for vacation. Yeah, that's what you're saying. >> A little bit. But the problem I've got is when people call this education.

>> Yeah. >> Because there's very few things that you study abroad that add value to your

resume equivalent to what they cost.

>> What about like nothing? Would you factor in school of life, life experience, being able to see cultures outside the United States? That's a vacation. >> Yeah. But there's education to that.

>> That's not you can't call this education

is for the purpose of furthering your career.

>> It's not. >> That is a type of education.

>> Well, it it it it should be and especially when we start talking about borrowing on it. We're not going to do that. >> No, we're certainly Yes. Hear me. >> If you have to borrow, don't go.

>> Yes. >> Period. We're in agreement on that. >> Yes, we 100% are. >> You know, I here I'll just I'll just come clean. All right. We have plenty of money at the Ramsies. >> Uhhuh. >> And Rachel, >> she want to study abroad? >> She decides she's going to study Spanish in Spain for one semester. She did.

>> Oh, really? >> Yep. I paid for it. >> Okay. >> And we had the money. >> Are you mad? Zero Spanish to this day.

>> Zero strain. The The girl cannot call the dog in Spanish. I'm just saying.

>> A >> It's just absolute. I mean, loco, she

can't even get there. I mean, it's just not a chance. Loc, there's just no chance she can get there.

>> I speak more Spanish than she does.

>> She went over there and had a great time. Classic Rachel style. Wherever

Rachel is, Rachel has a great time, right? But it was absolutely freaking useless. >> Oh, man. Okay. And I look back and I go, I got completely as the dad. I got

scammed. >> You got swindled. You did >> because they told me this was education.

>> You got bitter. >> And what it was was a Spanish party

>> in Barcelona.

>> Okay, understood.

>> I'm bitter. >> You're bitter. >> I'm bitter. That's the problem. And Sophia, you walked into bitterness.

That's the problem. Now, all kidding aside, don't call it education. Call because it really isn't. I mean, even if you're studyer, if you're going to go to London and study banking, that's okay.

It does not add enough feathers in your cap >> for your future job to justify the expense. The ROI is not there.

>> It's an experience. >> A vacation. It's an experience. Oh, I'll I'll tell you there might be one exception. >> What's that? >> Art.

>> Okay. >> If you were going to study If you're studying fine art and you were going to spend time with the with the great masters in Italy, >> Yeah. Okay. that might actually add value to your resume enough

to help you with some of the big houses in New York. >> Okay. So, Sophia, >> you actually stood in front of there

>> a Michelangelo. I mean, you've stood in you haven't just studied it in a book, >> you know, or on a slideshow.

>> So, that might that might, you know, if you if you can spend time in Venice and see the light differences >> Yeah. >> then that are real and I'm not an artist, but they're real. uh um then that might there some there's something nuanced like that you might get your money back but most of this time most of this stuff is just bull crap >> I would say there's not a a there's

likely not a career ROI but you can

expand your life >> yeah your knowledge of different cultures >> there's some versions of going and getting a degree that are that but but we've now told people that you know you can spend $200,000 having this this degree that is well-rounded And you're a barista and you're not wellrounded. You're a well you're the best rounded barista I know. >> You're the most insightful on several subjects. No, thank you.

That's not a way to build a child's life. It's not a way to coach a 19-year-old cuz this is how we end up with a student loan crisis. And Sophia called about a student loan. >> Yeah.

The fact that you were going to take a a loan for this was bananas. I will say that. >> Yeah.

>> It is a fun discussion. Hey, I learned something. >> Rachel, Rachel, go on vacation. You get thrown under the bus, kiddo. I'm just saying. >> Just feel the bus tracks. Bloom bloom, >> man. Well, you're talking to somebody who's been to 92 countries. So, I love travel. I love Now, like I said, the difference I got paid to travel. I got paid to go to all these places. That's very different. Uh >> Well, you're working cruise ships. >> Yeah. What do you want? Yeah.

I mean that's a different that's a completely different thing than >> my college is taking me and I am going to study.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's it's just an experience.

It's a trip. It's a fun thing that you could do. >> It's a party. >> Yeah. It's beer pong overseas.

>> Oh boy. I can say this with I never played one game of beer pong my entire college. >> You didn't? Well, it was they didn't they didn't invented it when I was there. I would have been champion. You would have been the champion. Oh boy.

>> Bourbon punk. >> That's why we Yeah. Oh, there we go.

There we go. A whole new game.

>> Oh, guys, you have to be careful with education. It is It is an irony in America that we're stupid about education.

Let that settle in.

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all states. >> Okay, today's question comes from Shelby in New Jersey. She says, "My husband and I are both 35 years old and we recently combined our finances and did our first budget together. I paid off closed I paid off and closed my credit card. He stopped using his credit card, but wants to keep it just in case. Together, we

earn over $175,000 a year. Our own debt,

our only debt is $25,000 on a car loan.

We have the cash today to pay it off, but my husband will not agree to pay it off any faster than just the monthly payment we pay of $400 per month. I want to be debtree, but I want us to agree to commit to this way of managing money.

How can I best go about this? So, it

sounds like your husband is living. He

doesn't want to leave his comfort zone, right? Him closing up his credit card, that's uncomfortable for him because he likes it to fall back on just in case.

And also, yeah, paying off the car early, paying more than just the minimum payment, that sounds like it's setting him outside of his comfort zone. If I do these things, I'm going to have to change something about my life. I'm going to have to pull back on something. And it sounds like he's not interested in that. And you're right, that is a problem. Um, the best thing that you can

do about this is to share a deeper

reason why. Not just for the moment and

not just so we can be debtree. Those just so that we can be debtree feels great, but there's a deeper why behind that. And I would challenge you to put

words to what that is. Uh, what it means for your family tree, what it means for your marriage, what it means for your personal peace. And that is what I would share with him first and foremost before we even start talking about the numbers.

And then I would challenge him to share what his vision is for the family and what his wise are. That way all the cards are laid out on the table and you can actually have a conversation about the vision for your family and then now

we can start plugging in how do we get there together? >> Yeah, you're exactly right. If we pan back and we say, "Is our goal to keep a

car payment the rest of our lives?" >> Sure hope not.

>> Well, if you do that, then let's go on Ramsey Solutions and pull up the calculator. >> Yeah. >> And put in $400 a month >> from age 35 to age 65.

>> Yeah. >> In a decent growth stock mutual fund.

That's going to be several million dollars. >> Oh, yeah. It is. >> Hope you like the car.

>> Terrible. >> Yeah. >> It's a three million $3.2 million car. I hope you like it.

>> And um yeah, so the only way that

anything he is saying makes sense is in the next 30 days. In the next 30 months or 30 years, it does not make sense.

What it come out >> 1.2 million. >> Yeah. >> Unbelievable. >> Yeah. So which makes the 400 I want to

keep a $400 car payment statement asinine.

That's like saying, "I want to be middle class instead of be a millionaire on purpose because I really like car payments." Well, what a dumb butt thing to say. >> Yeah. >> I mean, seriously, that's just dumb. So,

you know, but you got to pan back and make sure that he grasps that instead of going, "Well, I think I'll just pay it out slowly." Well, what what are the implications of that? $1.2 million.

Hello. So, that's just dumb. And so you

pan back and you start going, look, the people that build wealth and the kind of life that I envision us living don't have car payments. The people that I

vision us envision us living like don't have credit cards. They are living on debit cards and they pay cash for things. They don't have any debt and they use what used to be all those debt payments to build wealth with. If you live like no one else and later you can get out of debt, build wealth and live like no one else.

I want us to go somewhere with this. Not always keep a car payment. You're always going to have a car payment. Might as well have a good car.

>> But that's what you're saying is so important, which is why you have to go beneath the numbers because when you're married, most people do some version of what they saw growing up or what they see the people around them doing.

>> But if he hasn't seen that fallout yet cuz he will. But if he hasn't seen that yet and so far everything seems okay in his mind what's the big deal? And then if you came from a family where we did we paid cash for things and we paid things off and you understood the implications of debt. Those are two different backgrounds working together.

And that's the emotional side of money that you do have to have conversations about. You have to understand where the other person is coming from in order to then shift the conversation in the way that >> there's no long-term scenario that his idea works in. >> No.

Zero. The only idea the only thing scenario he works in is in the in the immediate in the next 90 days. It feels

good to not have to have $25,000 in the bank and not have $25,000 card debt, but there's no, you know, no 10-year period of time that that you look at that and go, "Oh, that was really smart." It just does not occur. Yeah. So when you pan back and you extend vision to this, you said vision earlier >> and you add vision to the discussion, you say, I want to talk about how the where this takes us, not what we're doing this month, >> but where do the where does this philosophy take us? Into the land of brook.

where it takes me. And I want to go to the land of millions. That's a different land. There are more flowers there.

Hello. Caesar is in Denver. Hey, Caesar.

What's up?

Hey Ramsey, how are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I'm 21 and um I have a pretty

good paying job, but I feel like I've hit my pace ceiling >> at 21 age. And Mike, >> you already maxed out >> my industry >> in your industry or just what is your what is your industry that you maxed out at 21?

>> Uh so diesel mechanic.

>> What are you making?

I'm making $42 an hour.

>> You ain't maxed out. There decent mechanics making 120 out there, bro.

>> Working for themselves or other people.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I don't I don't know whether it's time to go on on my own. I've done out on my own. And >> no, I don't necessarily think it's time to go out on your own, but I think the particular line of diesels that you're working on and the particular industry that you're working on is not paying as much as some of the others are paying.

>> Do a do it. I mean, Mike Row and I were having this discussion the other day. Diesel mechanics are doing much better than a lot of lawyers.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like at 21, I'm making decent money with and like with >> You're doing great for 21 years old. 42 bucks is no slouch. But you're you're not you're not you know you can make six figures in your world, dude.

>> Now, you might have to be running a mobile truck. You might have to be out there on the road a little bit. You might have to uh you might have to go get some certifications on some engines that you're not that you don't know yet.

Uh you you know, I don't know what you're working on, but what and what the guys making 120 are working on, but I was just talking to Mike about this the other day, and he was saying that that this is one of the And there's a shortage in your world, too, by the way.

There's not enough guys and gals that know how to do it. Just a quick search tells me the highest paid diesel mechanics often work in specialized fleet maintenance, field service roles, overtime, power generation. But if you do those things, you can make upwards of 120 plus. >> Yeah. And that that was Google in 30 seconds, >> right? Or chat GPT or whatever you did.

It was not that was not like a detailed piece of research she just did.

>> But that's that confirms what Mike was talking about. So yeah, I you know, you might be maxed out. So, what I would tell you to do is uh move in one of those other more specialized situations, power plant situations, something like that. Get your income up, get some more uh uh experience, and then talk about

opening up your own thing somehow >> in running your own thing. People that own their own businesses generally, if they do a good job running the business, make more than the people that work for them. >> Yes. Yep. >> Doing the diesel mechanics. Absolutely.

So, there you go.

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Susan's in Milwaukee. Hi Susan. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yeah. So my question is about how to handle conversations about differing financial values with family members >> like who >> um like close family members >> mom and dad >> sib siblings >> siblings what tell us the situation that's where something's coming up and you feel like you need to have a discussion.

>> Yeah so um it's kind of come up a couple

different times. So, previously it's been about like vacation budgets. Um,

and we kind of set our budget and you can tell that it's maybe a little lower.

Um, recently it was about a last minute

travel plan situation and they didn't feel like they could commit to a date and I made the mistake of saying like, well, we can't afford to do like a last minute plane ticket cuz those can be obviously more expensive. Sure.

>> Um and their response was, "Oh, well, we

talked about it and we'll just pay the extra." >> And for us, yes, for me, and and it was

it's not I spoke wrong. It was not that we couldn't afford to, it's that we choose not to like >> You don't want to just turn around and say that. You know, the difference is listen, I got to tell you, Dave and Sharon love traveling.

uh we do not get joy out of traveling

without a plan >> or overpaying when you don't have to.

>> And uh and and so everything is planned out to the nth degree. Even our impulses

are planned.

>> And so uh that's what we get joy from.

Other people get joy about just landing

somewhere, getting a rental car, and figuring it out. And that is fun for them. I don't travel with those people.

>> They would drive me bonkers. And there are some of those people I love dearly, but we don't travel alike. And I'm not

staying in that place. I'm not sleeping in the back seat cuz you couldn't get a reservation. I'm not standing outside in the sun for an hour and a half cuz you can't get in a freaking restaurant. I've had the reservation for four months before I got there. And so that's the

difference. And it's okay if you want to

live free and all all that, then do it, you know, but Dave has a plan.

>> You're not wrong. >> And so it's either one's okay. And I just tell people that. So, and we have relatives and friends that are in both camps that are pl everything's planned out to the nth degree. Um, >> I mean, are they usually like that? Have you found in the past that, hey, we just are yin and yang when it comes to the way we travel?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean they're definitely more last minute. Um, they're also just willing to like, oh, it's not a big deal financially. Yeah, >> I think Dave's right. These are not your travel companions. I think it's as simple as that. And it's no shade. It's just >> I'm going with you. I'm not going with you.

>> If it's a if it's a family thing, the way we're going to go is if you plan it.

>> Otherwise, the family ain't going to be there. >> Yeah, I think that's fair. I think that's totally fair because one one of

the ways costs us more money and we

don't do that the way we function. So you don't have to convert them to your way of thinking nor do you have to defend your way of thinking. All you have to do is just say no >> we don't go that way if if we would love to do stuff with you but here's the terms we plan it out >> and we you know we and we stay within our budget that way it's fun for us.

It's not fun for us otherwise. And this is your sibling or his >> mine. >> Okay. Well, just look at your sister or brother and tell them that.

>> No. >> Yeah. >> And no, you can't pay for it and make it all better cuz it's still not fun.

>> Yeah. And I don't like the way that feels either. >> No, I don't I don't I don't want that ick on me. So, thank you.

>> And that's kind of how it how it felt is like we're doing well and it feels like

we're now the poor family relation cuz we're not just willing to throw >> Yeah. Well, well, you don't care what they think, do you? >> That that feeling is on you. That's not on them. You got to just decide I'm not the poor family relation. I'm the family relation that plans >> and they can think whatever they want.

>> Yeah. Cuz I know I'm not the poor family relation for sure and I'm the one that plans. I mean, it's not I just can't stand it. Drives me nuts. So, it's okay if y'all don't want to go. It's okay.

But this is how we go. If you're going to roll with this how we roll. So, and we roll with the budget. We stick to our budget. That's fun for us. We stick to our plan. And that's fun for us. And you know, we if we want to do something a little different, we'll decide on the fly. But 99% of our stuff is detailed

freaking out. >> Yeah. >> And it's not okay if the details don't execute either, by the way. >> Yeah. And if you like here, here's the thing. If you truly like them enough to travel with them, then you should be able to have this conversation and it be all good when it's all said and and done. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, here's another

plan. Okay. like it there's a different kind of situation than yours, but we take our kids and grandkids all for a

week after Christmas somewhere warm and

Sharon and I pay for everything and we have since they got married that that's our gift to them and that is planned out

way in advance. uh they can speak into it a little, >> but generally speaking, we're going to our place, you know, and and this what we're doing. And I don't mind hearing from Rachel what she thinks she wants to do, but uh and that's cool, you know, but um but we're paying for it. And there's no shade on that. That's our gift. And uh but those are the terms.

>> There's a plan. >> And you know, we all agreed we're going, too, by the way. >> Yeah. >> You you don't come up and go, you know, I don't think I'm going to go this year. No, you already told me you're going and it's already booked. >> Yeah, it's faithful. >> So, yeah, you're going. And that that's I mean, we don't tell people what to do.

We just tell them what to do, you know? It's like But I mean, it it's um but I mean Yeah. I think what's happening here is there's more than a travel or budget discussion. It's the shade that's being thrown.

>> Yeah. And it's making her feel a type of It's making her feel like she has to defend herself. And >> Yeah. I just take all that off the table and go, "This is who we is.

You want to play with us? This how this the rules of our sandbox. >> I like your usage of shade, Dave. That's You're doing good.

>> I'm picking it up from you. I got the cool kids around me and the cool kids are teaching me these things. So, I heard you use it earlier and I thought I'd just bring it back up and act like I knew what it meant. >> You did good.

>> Boom. Boomer uh boomer usage.

>> There we go. >> Good job.

>> Oh man, Evalu or Ivaloo. Ivaloo is in

Michigan and I pray God I got that right. Ivaloo. Am I close even?

>> You're close. >> Okay. What's How's it pronounced?

>> Ivaloo. >> Oh, it is Ivaloo. NOT A CLOSE. I GOT IT.

I NAILED IT. ALL RIGHT. IVALOO, what's up?

>> I want to know if service contracts for car repair through my dealership is a

good or bad investment for my car.

>> Really bad. Horrible.

So, I should I should just planner on spending the money for the repairs for the next few years. >> Yep. You want to hear the numbers?

TW 12% of what you pay covers the

repairs.

50% covers the marketing and the

commissions paid to the salesman that sold it to you. And the rest is profit.

12%. >> So if you paid if you paid $10,000, $1,200 worth of repairs is what it covers on average. These things are unbelievably profitable and the guys love to sell

them cuz they make almost as much selling that stupid extended warranty as they do the entire car.

>> Okay. They're they're telling me a 7-year bumper-to-bumper will cost me $2,759.

>> Yeah. Well, there's already a warranty on there that's bumper to bumper.

They're extending it to seven.

>> No, the warranty is expired.

>> Okay. And how expensive a car is this?

>> Um, I purchased it in March of 2025.

>> Mhm. >> It's a 2023 Buick Encore.

>> Yeah. >> And I paid $22,000 cash for it. >> Okay. the vast amount of that $2,000 is

not going to come out in repairs on average. So, if you were going to start an an extended warranty company, you would figure out the probability of the car breaking and you would set aside that amount of money on out of a,000 Buick Enclaves. How much is it going to cost me to cover it for 7 years and you're going to figure out it cost me 500 bucks to cover it for 7 years on average across 5,000 of them? Okay? And

then you would figure out I got to pay the commissions and I got to have a profit. And that's how you run an insurance company.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey. Christina is in New York City.

Hi Christina. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Ah, uh, long story short, um, my husband's family has a vacation home that is currently owned by my mother-in-law. And, uh, a couple years ago, uh, we offered, uh, to take it over, take care of it, pay for it, deal with the maintenance, um, because that's what my late father-in-law had wanted.

and he had always told my husband that he eventually would um inherit this home

because they built it together when my husband was like 5 years old. Um, but my

sister-in-laws did not agree with this plan and said they did not wanted this house to go to him. That they wanted it

um to be split three ways. Um, and that

they wanted my mother-in-law to continue paying for it, you know, until she passes away to like keep it all in a trust together with her other property.

Um, but now my mother-in-law is getting older. You know, maintenance is is taking a lot. It's another expense that she doesn't have the money for. Um, and now she's asking us all to split um the

cost for the house um four ways.

>> No. >> And my one Yes.

>> No, thank you. >> And my one No. Yeah. So, and my one

sister-in-law already said that she's not doing it. So our question is should

we split it four ways or at this point I guess three ways but we will not own this house eventually or should we just look for our own house?

>> You should look for your own house.

>> Okay. That's what we keep on thinking.

So we should just >> This is called a dysfunctional family.

>> Yeah.

>> Isn't it? >> Yes. Yes. And you know my father-in-law really wanted it to go my to my husband.

There were conversations I had. It >> doesn't matter. He didn't He didn't cause it to happen. >> I know. >> If he really wanted it to, he should have put it in a trust before he died.

>> Yeah. >> And then the sisters-in-law could pound sand.

>> Yeah. >> Which is what they need to do. They need to pound sand, but I don't think they're going to. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, I guess for her, >> there's two sisters, right?

>> Yeah. Two. >> And one is already opted out. If the

other one opts out, tell your mother-in-law to to deed it to the trust now to your son, to your husband, and

then we'll pay the bill. >> That's what we had. >> If you'll go ahead and deed it to us now, we'll pay the bill.

>> Yeah, that's what we had said two years ago. >> I know. We'll say it again, though. >> And yeah, >> why won't she do that?

>> Um because my sister-in-law said no, they don't want that to happen. >> I know, but they don't want to pay anything either.

So, mom, since they don't want to pay anything and we're the only ones wanting to pay anything, why don't we do what dad said to do originally and deed the stinking house to me and I'll pay for it.

>> Yeah. >> But if you're not going to do that, we're not in.

>> So, mom, you get the choice.

>> Somebody's going to be disappointed.

>> Let's decide who. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And if she doesn't do it, then we I mean, this is what I just little

property. >> Yeah. It's just a house. Just let it go.

Now, what would you do? It's her fault, not yours. We have three. I know. We have three children as well. What would you do so this doesn't happen to our children? And the >> I would raise my children better.

>> Yeah. >> Where they're not brats.

>> But like we are talking about like maybe having like a trust for the house that has like I don't know a certain amount of money in. >> Yeah. But how about your father? How about father before he dies communicates to his three kids? I built this with my son. I'm leaving it to him. This is what's going to happen. And you two will get other things, but you're not getting this. Instead, he never bothered to communicate.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's what a lot of people do.

They wait till they're dead to piss people off.

Go ahead and piss people off while you're alive. >> If somebody's going to be mad, go ahead and do it while you're alive. This is how you do it. There's not an estate plan that works where there's no communication.

Everyone should know every detail that

involves them.

Okay.

>> Yeah. >> So Rachel, Daniel, and Denise can tell you what happens with our lakehouse.

We've all decided together while we're up walking, while we're upright,

and then then they can, and in this case, by the way, they're going to own it together. And then they can decide to buy each other out. They can they can sell the thing. They can burn it. I don't care what they do. I'll be gone.

But it's theirs to decide. And if I'm going to leave it to one of them or if one of them wants to buy the other two want to buy the other two out, it's not going to make me mad that they do whatever they want to do. >> I hate the lake. I don't want to go down there anymore. Okay, cool. Y'all work that out.

But that, you know, you if you clarify

it upfront and often in your estate

plan, you don't have the first reading of the will after death. You have the first reading of the will as soon as the will is complete.

Does that make sense? >> And I guess that's what my Yeah, that's what my mother-in-law is trying to do now, but she's not really honoring her

husband's wishes. No, what she's trying to do now is offload the expenses

without offloading the ownership.

>> Yeah. And that >> that doesn't work. >> Yeah. >> I don't want the expenses unless I get the ownership. No, thank you.

>> Okay. >> And uh so really honestly what should

happen here based on now I'm getting your opinion and you're pissed at your sisters-in-law and I don't really blame you. So, but but so I haven't heard their side, but from what I'm hearing, what I would say is that mom needs to say, "Hey, I offered you guys a chance to chip in. You don't want to chip in.

And so, I'm going to step back and I'm going to honor dad's original wishes.

I'm deeding it to your brother. You'll get other things in the will, and I'm going to go ahead and move it into a trust for your brother now, while I'm alive, and he's going to pick up the expenses from this point forward. You will not be getting the lakehouse. um take care of you and other things, but I'm just letting you two know you had the option and you opted out.

>> Yeah. Sadly, it's only one of them that's opting out. >> I know, but that's okay. Just step in.

>> Yeah. You know, that's what I would do if I was mother. They don't have a choice. It's hers. She gets to do with it what she wants.

>> If even if the story wasn't what the story was, she could just wake up in the morning and go, I'm giving it to you.

>> Yeah, she could. I think the problem with this too is there was information that you knew that the sisters probably never knew. They probably never heard that the lake house was supposed to go to your husband or go to you.

>> I think I kind of knew, but um you know they don't father-in-law any kind of change. >> He's dead but I think he was a wuss.

>> He did like to keep the peace.

>> Yeah, he he keep Well, he didn't keep the peace. What he did was he he avoided conflict. There's a difference. You keep the peace with clarity.

>> Avoiding conflict is just cowardice.

>> Yeah. And whatever conversations have need to be between the husband, not not you, cuz you're the in-law.

>> Yeah. I would not You don't need to be talking to mom. You don't need to be talking to sisters at all because it's not going to go well. Jade is exactly right. Good advice. Good advice, Jade.

>> Yeah. So, your your husband should call his mom and say, "Mom, this is what dad really intended. If we're not going to do that, we're not going to participate.

I'm sorry. If you would like to do that though, if you want to go ahead and deed it over, I'll take it off your hands and you won't have to worry about it anymore and we will have fulfilled dad's original wishes that we all know were there. >> And just there's no time to cover this, but you've got to view inheritance as the cherry on the top of the Sunday. It can't be the thing that you're counting on to break you free. >> Right. Right. Yeah.

>> You were counting on this as your house.

>> On the other hand, you don't want to be handcuffed to it either.

>> Yeah. I'm going to be in an LLC with my sister who steals money was yesterday.

No, thank you.

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Nate is in Phoenix. Hi Nate. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Yes, sir. Um, so my question, I am a 21-year-old recent college graduate. Um,

I'm starting out a career in aviation here in Phoenix, but my question more so revolves around around a $5 million uh real estate portfolio that my late grandmother, she passed away a few uh months ago. She built it up um over the

past 40 years by being a nurse and having a house cleaning company. Um, and so no one else really in my family at the moment um is like willing to kind of

manage this portfolio that she built up.

It's roughly a dozen um houses, apartments, condos, etc. across four different states. And so I'm kind of looking to take that on. And the challenge being I have a job here in Phoenix um and my siblings and parents have jobs as well. And being that it's it's spread across um all the way from Hawaii to Pennsylvania, we're looking at what is the best way to manage this.

>> If you inherited it, why are you >> Yeah. >> Oh, so it's it's in my mom's name. Um

but my parents are nearing retirement age. They don't want to take on any big ventures um or basically like you know have a huge hassle of managing this. So I have basically stepped up and told them I want to take advantage of this opportunity and >> why is it an opportunity? >> How will you get what's your benefit?

>> Well my benefit is I I've you know I've read a lot and seen a lot online how real estate can you know be beneficial in terms of building income. What's your what's your financial benefit to it?

>> You want to be a property manager because you read real estate online.

>> No, I wouldn't say Yeah, I don't want to be like I want to basically figure out

how I can turn these roughly dozen properties and build it into something that's beneficial for our entire family.

>> So, you're thinking I just want to I want to make this very clear. Are you thinking, hey, if I help this build from 5 million and maybe I, you know, double it or whatever, then when I inherit it, it's going to be even more. Is that what you're thinking? Or are you thinking you can just earn some sort of salary off managing this? Or is it both?

>> So So it it's more so not that I really want a salary. It's really I almost want to turn it into a family business if if that makes more sense. >> You keep saying family business and yet you don't own anything.

Yeah, because I mean my parents, like I said, my parents own it, but they have kind of like I have talked with them and we've kind of come to agreement where they want me to basically take the lead on it because they're nearing retirement. No kidding. How are you getting paid for this?

>> That's dumb. They want to hire their 21-year-old who had other life goals to now be a property manager is what you're saying because you're getting nothing out of this. No, I don't want you to do this.

Because you read an article on Tik Tok and got excited about real estate. No.

>> If they don't like >> even if >> you don't own it. >> If they don't if they don't enjoy property, they can always sell the properties and invest the money.

>> Yeah. You don't own it.

>> Nor or anywhere in this discussion have you ever owned it. You've never indicated anywhere in this entire time.

We asked you four times, are you going to own it? No, I'm just going to run the family business. Well, then you're just a stinking employee. And I don't even

think they've said that to you that they're going to pay you money or a certain amount of money to run this.

They haven't said that.

>> Yeah. Well, I guess like I mean following the logical line of progression here, I guess eventually me and my siblings are going to inherit it.

>> So, >> and your siblings are going to benefit from all your work because you're not.

>> Yeah. So, do you think I should >> I think you're I think what's happening is you're operating, Nate, on a a set of assumptions and they are massive assumptions. Yeah. >> You're assuming that >> you're going to end up with this.

>> You're going to end up with this and that you're going to have a bigger percentage of this and that there's going to be a family business. You've got a lot. >> Let's play this out. Let's play this out.

You go in there and you work for a few dollars enough to support you while you screw with this. And you run this from 5 million to 20 million.

that you built, >> you're going to be pissed. >> That is not a good plan.

>> So, yeah. So, I guess your advice would just be to like, you know, let >> your mom and dad Yeah. If your mom and dad want to say, "In return for managing

our property, we will pay you a property

management fee and we will deed these

four properties to you now."

>> Mhm. >> And then you do with those four properties something good for you.

Meanwhile, you manage the others for your siblings future cuz your parents aren't going to do anything with them.

Now, that would be one thing. Now, the second piece of this is I heard a couple other things in there. I'm going to change horses on you now that I dropped that on you. But no, don't just go in there and assume you're going to that this is all going to work out cuz it's real estate.

It's not. Uh now then the other thing is you said properties scattered from Hawaii to whatever to another problem. >> And that is a bad I mean and there's only 10 or 12 properties. It's not like you got this huge portfolio.

So you guys need to sell off some of this stuff that's stuck out there in the middle of Egypt somewhere and get and get this get the properties centralized where you can run them.

All of my portfolio is all where I can

touch it within a short drive. And so

and that that's what the kids are going to end up with in this case. So um yeah,

if you know you guys need to do some estate planning and figure out end game after you grow this portfolio, how do you benefit from growing the portfolio other than just the thrill of growing the portfolio? And in the meantime, how

do you eat >> which would be the property management piece? What needs to be how Dave go even deeper on the like this needs to be in writing. This needs to be somewhere talk about it over Chick-fil-A. Yeah.

>> And then we also tell the siblings.

>> Yes. >> You know, so Nate is taking over the property in return. Nate is going to do this, this, and this. Okay.

>> We all know. >> Okay. So, in our case, Rachel's husband

Winston has a real estate company that he and I started. He has done other

things with it on his own behalf that I have nothing to do with now. And he also

manages all the Ramsey property and gets paid for managing the Ramsay property.

He does not own any of the Ramsey property. The three Ramsay Gen Twos will own the Ramsay property. One of which is his wife, >> but he's not >> managing it for the family vaguely hoping he'll get something someday. He knows exactly what he's going to get.

Mhm. >> Uh his wife is going to get onethird of the portfolio upon Sharon and my death.

And in the meantime, he's being paid commissions and management fees to run a

real estate company, which he thoroughly loves. And I like working with him, so it's all good. Perfect. >> But that's a very clear delineation of what's where. And by the way, he kind of came at it like Nate did. >> He wanted to learn the real estate business. I know it. He wanted to get involved in it. We I I was one of his I

was his initial mentor. So over the years I was one of his mentors. He's had other people that didn't just learn from me, but I kind of helped him get started and um I did. And so uh

>> this guy needs a mentor. He can't just jump into this. >> I'm I'm in aviation.

>> Yeah. >> No, I'm in the rental property business in Hawaii. >> That's And it's going to be different in different each country and each state that he's in. Yeah. Well, Hawaii is a different country.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

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Keegan is with us in Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Keegan. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I had a question I wanted to run by you. Uh, I turned I'm 22 now, but

back when I turned 18, I took out some credit cards and racked up uh, to me a

significant uh, debt and I finally now

I'm just facing it. I'm 22 and I got a

job, full-time job, and I've been working on paying it off. >> Good. What do you make? Uh, >> I make $3,500 a month.

>> Okay. Working 40 hours? Uh, >> yes. >> What do you do?

I work for a pain cream company, Nano Extreme Pain Cream.

>> Okay. >> The marketing for it. >> Yeah. And um how much credit card debt did you run up?

>> Um I ran up u about $40,000.

>> Mhm. >> Is that all the debt you got?

>> Uh $40,000 and then I have some student

loan debt. Altogether I had $70,000 of

debt. >> Okay. So, student loans are 30,000.

>> Yes. >> No car debt.

>> Uh, well, I was watching your show and I ended up selling my car about two weeks ago. Um, because I am able to ride into work with somebody. >> Wow. >> Very good. >> What' the car sell for?

>> I sold it for 13 grand. So, I was able to put that towards the car. Um, so I

just paid that off. So, I don't have a loan on that anymore. >> Big move there. Excellent. Way to go.

All right. Okay. So, the 70,000 >> I had some >> Yep. And then I had some bicycles that I sold. I I sold those for $10,000 to pay off some debt. I ended up paying off uh two credit cards that total up to $8,500

in debt. So, look at it. Get it.

>> So, you're with >> Oh, 43,000. >> Down to 43. Yeah.

>> But there's 70 total, including student loan debt. Yeah. Okay.

So, I have a friend um who offered to

pay off all my debt and I pay him back.

>> Um I don't really know if I want to do that or not because I don't want to ruin I know money can ruin a relationship and I'm not sure if I want to go down that road. >> It's not really money that ruins it.

It's the uh change in the relationship that can ruin it. Um so who you're 22.

What kind of a friend has $73,000?

Um, uh, he comes from generational wealth.

His dad's, uh, very wealthy, so he has

lots of money just laying around.

>> Wow. >> Okay.

>> Um, yeah. >> So, he offered to pay it for me, and I have to pay him back, of course, but I'm not sure if I want to do that.

>> No, I I I would not do that. No.

>> Okay. >> I think you're making wonderful progress because you've done a couple of things.

One is you became very focused and clear on your debt attack. And two is you've been very impressively willing to sacrifice and very impressive. And so >> yeah, I mean it's not what I want to do at 22, but >> but my whole life like this.

>> Yeah. But what you don't want to do is live under the thumb of a credit card either. So you're wanting to get out. I'm going to fight my way out. No, I I think uh I I think it's a kind offer and I appreciate it. The problem is um that

when you borrow money from someone, you change the relationship to that of master servant. The borrower is slave to

the lender. And even if and so if you're a slave, by definition, you have a master. And even if your master is a very nice person or is an unconcerned person, they still become your master.

And it changes the air in the room.

They start thinking about how much this guy works. They start thinking about if you're going on vacation. They start thinking about if you went to happy hour. All of a sudden, they're thinking about it. Even if they have plenty of money, quote unquote, laying around.

>> Yeah. Because this is your friend. So, he has front row seats to how you're living your life every day. >> Yeah. So, I mean, it's a it's it's kind of sounds good on the surface or it sounds it's actually a nice offer.

>> Yeah. Sounds good. But but it's going more times than not to your point it ends in disaster, Keegan. So I will tell you this, I if

you can get some transportation of some kind, I'd love to see you pick up an extra job for 30 more hours and you know

and continue to accelerate the plan that you've already got. That's what I would do. But the secret sauce to this, Keegan, is not mathematics on the interest rate. You get a better interest rate with your friend. that the secret sauce is not that at all. The secret sauce is Keegan. When Keegan changed,

everything changed.

And before Keegan changed, nothing changed. So once you decide you're going to ride this thing, you're riding it.

I'm proud of you. Keep after it, dude. I want you to look in the mirror and go, you're the answer to the problem, not borrowing from a friend. >> That's right. >> And that might include working another 30 hours a week somewhere, which I really wouldn't mind you doing at all. Todd is in El Paso. Hey Todd, what's up

Todd? >> Hey, how's it going? Sorry about that. I was kind of muted a little bit. My bad.

>> No troubles. What's up?

>> Hey, so anyway, I was uh I've kind of

gotten myself kind of like screwed over a little bit, I guess you could say. I was out uh getting uh I had a friend put

me on to getting Pokemon cards and I think I went a little too far over because I racked up Well, I talked to the lady on the phone before this. I racked up like thousands of dollars in credit card debt to help pay for my Pokemon cards. >> How much is How many thousands?

>> Uh probably like 10 to$15,000.

>> Okay. All right. So, how much credit card debt do you have exactly? Do you even know?

>> Uh, no. I don't really like pay attention to it like that.

>> Mhm. Well, step one, identify the

problem in detail.

>> You're lost. You're screwed. You need to find the map that has the little red arrow on it that says you are here.

Here you are. It's $13,426

of stupid. I want to I want to define my stupid very carefully and thoroughly.

That's step one. Step two is take assessment of the inventory of Pokemon cards and what and how you can move them. So, you've been trying you bought them uh to speculate on them and try to retail them back out. You tried to buy them at one price and sell them at another price, right?

>> Uh correct. And uh >> did you do that successfully ever?

Uh, no. I kind of just uh winged it because I saw other success stories and I was like, you know what? I'll use the credit card. You know, my logic was I'll use their money cuz it's not mine and then if it doesn't work then >> why out maybe then it's your money after all. Who knew? Yeah. >> I I have a feeling this is a symptom of something else. What caused you to be so desperate that you would do 10,000 or

however much on on a credit card for Pokemon cards?

>> Oh, that's just the American dream in my mind. I'm just trying to like make the the next dollar like any >> American dream is to go broke in credit card debt.

>> Well, when you were like that.

>> Yeah. Ah, dish.

>> I wanted to like >> What do you do for work? What's your job?

>> Uh, I kind of like bouncing around employment.

I'm kind of >> There it is. Looking for a new >> And there it is. A little >> Okay, that's what I was getting to.

There was something going on. >> Yeah. Ding ding ding ding ding. >> Okay. Okay. So, you believe crap like you heard like it takes money to make money and so I'm going to be a Pokemon guy because two people I know did this once and um instead of working. So,

here's what I want you to do. I want you to get a 40-hour job and then what I want you to do right after that is I want you to get another 30-hour job and pay these pay these credit cards off.

Meanwhile, call some of your stupid Pokemon friends and say, "Hey, stupid friend. You got me into a stupid mess cuz I was stupid. And we're going to get this mess cleaned up and sell these stupid cards. Now help me with this and

let's get these cards moved instead of sitting around looking at them. Cuz every day I got to look at them. If I'm you, I feel dumber.

>> Yeah. The American >> I've done dumb things, Todd. You did a dumb thing. So I know what dumb things look like. And dumb things when you leave them sitting there in your house.

They shame you. When you walk by, they go, "You did a dumb thing. to you. They tell you. >> I had a car parked in my driveway one time. It kept saying, "Dave, you're stupid." >> Yeah. >> You're dumb, Dave. >> Yeah. >> You look what you did, Dave.

>> So, I got rid of that stupid car. I felt stupid every time I drove it.

>> Yeah.

Hey, what's up guys? It's Jade Warshaw.

Listen, summer spending adds up so fast between vacations and road trips and camp fees and events and all the extra gas and grocery runs. Money can get tight before you know it. To really get your money under control and keep it that way, you're going to need a plan.

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Our scripture of the day, John 13:35. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples if you love one another.

Thomas Soul said, "Some of the biggest cases of mistaken identity are among intellectuals who have trouble remembering that they are not God.

>> Oh boy.

>> Whoa.

David is in Denver. Hey David, what's up?" >> Uh, not much Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I'm on baby step six. Um, paying off my home. I have no debt at the moment and I've been in the corners of the YouTube finance world and I found a video about bi-weekly mortgage payments

>> and signing up for that program. So, I'm currently owe $420,000

on a 5.98 30-year fixed loan

>> and I'm two years in and I was wondering, do you recommend that I sign up for the bi-weekly mortgage payments?

>> Uh, I would not pay a fee for it. Is there a fee associated with it?

>> Yes, sir. uh to enroll. Rocket Mortgage does require a single upfront mortgage payment, which for me is $3,500. So, I would have >> They hold as a fee. They take that as a fee. >> Wow. >> Uh no, I do I guess not a fee. I think it goes towards a principal, sir.

>> Are your is your mortgage with Rocket?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Are they charging any fee for the service of the bi-weekly? An actual fee?

>> I don't believe so, sir. I believe they just asked me to make a one-time uh mortgage payment uh to enroll and then I am enrolled from then on. >> Okay, that's possible. I'm not real trusting of Rocket.

>> Ah, >> cuz Rocket has a lot of shysters going on in there. So, be careful. But let me let's walk through it. Here's why I'm asking that question. All right. So, basically, a bi-weekly mortgage is half

a payment as you know, David, every two weeks.

>> Yes, sir. There are 26 two week periods

in a year. So 26 halves is 13 holes,

>> right? >> Which means that a bi-weekly mortgage effectively pays a single payment extra

per year.

>> Correct? >> So mathematically, you would be within $15 of this by simply just writing a check once a year for an extra payment.

That's true. And so I kind of thought like what uh >> there's no magic.

>> Yeah. The bi-weekly is not magic. It's just a way to trick you into paying extra principal.

>> I see. >> And that's the only thing that does it. So if you just took your regular mortgage and once a year sent an extra payment above your regular mortgage, you'll be within 10 or $15 of the same exact result. So it takes a 30-year mortgage and turns it into about a 23.

It takes a 15-year mortgage and turns it into about a 12.

I see. >> But it's all done by an extra principal payment a year. And really, truthfully, you're on baby step six, so you may be doing more or less of an extra principal payment a year. Are you paid every two weeks? >> Yes, sir. I do have a salary position.

So does my wife. We uh we earn about 186

$186,000 a year.

>> So it would be it would be kind of an autopilot thing to at least get one extra payment a year. But I with those numbers you're giving me, I want you to put more than that on there anyway, don't you?

>> Uh, well, the problem is my uh my I have a four-year-old son and I'm paying $22,000 a year for daycare. Um, and that

just really hurts the budget. I do feel like I'm house poor. I feel like I'm kind of, you know, >> if you're a house poor, you don't need to increase your house payment.

>> Yes, sir. I'm just trying to pay this thing off as quickly as possible. Um, currently, >> well, the way you're going to do that is extra principal payments, not being house poor from daycare. So, you got to decide which which life is it you're living here. But either way, if I want you in baby step six for your sake

>> to get the house paid off.

>> And the way you're going to do that is extra principal payments. If you want to do that by setting it up as a bi-weekly and they don't charge you a fee to do it, see, if they're charging you 500 bucks to do this or something, well, crap, no. I'll just send it an extra payment, >> right? >> But if they're charging you no fee and you want and you're paid bi-weekly and it's easy, yeah, let's do that. But let's also plan to do more.

>> Um, excellent. And before I let you go, um, I do, uh, earn $11,000 a month with

my wife after taxes, and my mortgage is 3500, which equates to 32.2% of my

monthly income. Uh, since I'm on baby step six, I don't have any debt. Do you still think I can keep this house? I know you always say sell the house is too much, but I really want this home. I think that you're feeling the squeeze, especially right now because you have somebody in daycare and that's a there's a seasonality there that's not going to be like this for all time. So, I think that's why you're feeling the squeeze.

If there's something you can do to offset that in the meantime, I would do it. >> Yeah. And I'm not >> And that's putting the take-home pay you outlined is after you put money in 401k, right? >> Yes, sir. My >> That's not the number. No, that's not the number. >> That's the wrong calculation. >> That's the wrong calculation. When we say take home pay, we mean just after taxes only.

>> Yes. Uh yeah, it's uh 11,000 hits our joint account a month.

>> I know, honey, but that's after they took money out for 401k >> and probably insurance.

>> Yes, sir. >> Those two numbers don't count in the calculation. So, you're not at 32%.

>> OH, OKAY.

>> That's what I'm saying. The only numbers that count in the calculation for take-home pay is after taxes, gross

minus taxes. So add back insurance, add

back uh in your calculation and then say

of that number, what percentage is it?

It's going to be down close to 25. So you're you're fine. I don't think you're hurting here. I I think you're just, you know, observing the fact that not you're not out of debt completely yet. And even when you are, it's not a magic pill.

>> It's just uh it's just a better place than being in debt. That's all.

Everybody listening needs to understand what you just said about take-home pay, which is it is only the after tax amount. >> When we say have your house be 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed, we're talking about only after taxes.

Not after child support coming out, not after your car payment coming out and going to the credit union. >> Not after the insurance, not after insurance, not after 401k, not after a

not after any of that stuff. Okay? So, put all that crap. That's not what we're talking about. Good point. Aaron is in Minneapolis. Hi, Aaron. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. So, we recently moved to a country home. We

thought it would be our dream home, our forever home that we'd raise our kids in. Um, but after moving here, we realized we hate country life. We miss living in closer to a city. We miss sidewalks, all the amenities.

We have another home and we are renting

it out and we thought we would rent it out for a few years and then sell it and then use that money to pay off said country home. But now we are unsure of

what to do because we do not want to stay in said country home.

>> We'll sell said country home and move back to the city. >> What's wrong with that?

>> So our other home is 3 hours away and

sell both of them and buy a house in the city.

That's what you think we should do? >> Sure. If >> if none of them are working for you.

>> I don't want a rental house in a country home and I want neither. Why don't we say I don't want to own them anymore. So what am I going to do? I'm going to sell them. >> And you could probably buy what you want. Maybe in cash. I don't >> get rid of both of them.

>> Even if we just recently bought a side country home.

>> How? >> Okay. Why are you arguing with me? You called me up and said you didn't like it. >> No, I'm not. I >> know. But you're going, "Well, I just bought it." Well, I KNOW, BUT I DON'T LIKE IT. I made a bad decision. Unmake

the decision.

>> Okay. >> You didn't get married. You bought real estate.

>> Okay. Thank you so much, Dave. >> Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to get rid of the married thing if you do that one wrong.

But the real estate one, you just put it up for sale. >> It's more simple than you think, I think. >> Yeah. Well, it it's just I mean, you may lose a little money.

I Okay, we we made a bad decision. Some something about our vision for life was >> a skew. Yeah. And uh so we may pay some tax for that.

>> Stupid tax. >> We may pay some stupid tax for that. That's okay. It's okay.

I've done dumber things than that. Then thought I wanted something that I didn't didn't. And um but I I tell you what is interesting to do, Aaron, in these situations than anybody else. I've done it a lot to myself.

>> When I find myself in a situation like that called a mistake, >> that's a mistake.

malfunction that allowed the mistake?

What decisionmaking framework was I using that was flawed that caused me to, >> you know, uh, okay, I was looking at Instagram people on Homestead. Well, don't you know, okay, I've just figured it out. I don't need to be looking at Instagram to do anything >> that that it has quality in life, >> right? uh you know uh and and so what what was it that caused me to get a skew

of what reality was and and so that I don't do it again. >> Well, then it becomes research, not just something stupid you did. >> It was an experiment. >> It was an experiment. >> I found something that didn't work.

>> That's right. >> Like a test tube when I blew up the lab.

Yeah, that kind of thing. Yeah.

>> That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. But in the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in [music] the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, George Camel, taking calls about your life and your money all hour long and even

longer. So, if you want to get involved, numbers88255225.

That's how you do it. All right. Amy is in Canada. Hey, Amy. How can we help you out today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, so my question is um how to navigate

parents giving uh lots of gifts uh

knowing uh it's from debt and it u makes

us feel anxious. So, um um yeah, I guess

just wondering, is it okay to say no to my parents spending money on our family?

>> Well, yeah, of course you can always say no. I mean, you don't have to accept it, but I I kind of want to get juicy. I want to know more about what type of >> what kind of gifts >> gifts these are. >> How much are they spending? How long has this been going on?

>> Yeah. So, um they uh so they'll spend

upwards of two grand per child. So, uh,

four kids, multiple grandchildren, um,

uh, for Christmas, um, and even for birthdays, we're, uh, they always want to take us out for dinner. They always have points to upgrade their flights or our flights or fly us across country.

Wow. Um, and we know uh that so they're

empty neester hoarders and uh they have

I don't know how much debt they're in, but I know they have a few ATVs, a trailer, a fifth wheel, a boat, a vacation home, and we know that none of those are paid off. Maybe just a couple of the ATVs. >> Do they have any Cuz some people live a

lifestyle where it's like, I have a bunch of debt over here, but I also have a bunch of assets over here, and I just play that game. Are do they have a bunch of assets somewhere or do they not have enough to retire?

>> They No, they they keep like talking about how they need to keep pushing.

They're uh like 60 and they need to keep pushing back their retirement. They still like have a home that's not paid off. >> Got it. >> How much have they shared with you regarding their financial problems?

>> Uh my dad has shared a decent amount. uh

he was like not aware of the finances in

their home until maybe five years ago.

Um but then once the mom found out then

he kind of has stopped sharing as much but he had no idea how much debt they were in. Um and so it the whole situation just feels irky and then it's how to protect our family but knowing that we can't advise them but we don't we don't know how to just say stop spending money on us. Well, I don't know that you can tell them or make them change their behavior large scale. I

think that if it makes you feel icky to take a gift, you can easily say no. Um,

and I think that that's probably more what this call is about. So, if they say, "Hey everybody, we're all we're loading up the family and we're going to Bora Bora and we're paying for everybody." You can say, "Oh, well, me and Steve, we'll pay for our own ticket." You know, that's that's fine.

>> Yeah. Are they pretty aggressive with it?

Yeah. And we've tried to put some boundaries in place and they will just show up. And if we say no to a vacation,

I mean, we can't afford to pay our way, then it's it's like very dramatic and [laughter] they kind of >> So, wait a minute. So, when you put boundaries in your life of we can't afford that, then that irks them.

>> Of course, [laughter] >> why would we not go in debt to go on a family vacation? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But you you think you have a better relationship with your father to have a serious conversation with him and go, "Hey, based on what you've told me, there's a lot going on here financially and it feels like you guys covering all of our expenses is only hurting that and we just don't want to be a part of making this problem worse." How would he respond to that?

>> Yeah, I think I think he probably would respond well. I just I don't know how much control he has over the actual >> So it's mom that is the out of control addictive spender.

>> Yeah, I would say so.

>> Well, that might be a conversation he needs to have with her.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> If he has the the place of authority in the relationship versus you, then it's going to need to be him convincing her that, hey, that we're in a bad situation and if we ever want to retire one day, we need to start cleaning this mess up.

And it starts with not being overly generous when we really can't afford to be. And you know what? I'm think I'm really thinking about this because um I I also

think if you can approach this I'm kind of thinking about it in the way of how we talk about college and how we should set expectations about parents paying for college. I'm kind of thinking that same thing. I think you need to go because I'm always about keeping the ball in your court, right? What's Amy doing?

What's your life about? What are your boundaries? Cuz you can't really control them. So, I might have a conversation with dad and mom and say, "Hey, I would like to set some expectations um on my end >> regarding your retirement." And I would just let them know, I'd say, "Hey, I want you guys to know upfront.

I don't know what your plans are, but I want you to know I keep calling your husband Steve. I don't know what his name is, but I just want you to know Steve Steve and I are not going to be able to contribute to your retirement. So, I just want you to know that upfront. I want to tell you that early and often so that there's no expectation that we would be able to help you out financially in any way.

I don't know what your expectations were, but I just want to let you know this is where we're at. And that way >> when the time comes, cuz like I said, you can't change your mom, can't change your dad.

But that way if the time comes, >> they know don't come knocking on your door [laughter] for extra money uh in

retirement. And so that's one thing that you could do. And that alone might get their wheels turning on why would she say that? I wonder if she's concerned.

Should we be concerned? So sometimes just putting your boundaries in place is enough to get the other person thinking about um their own situation.

>> Yeah, that's good. I like that.

>> And then the other piece of this is you may not be able to change them. you may not be able to stop them. And I have family members like that, too, where they just love to be generous. And so, I realized, you know what?

I'm going to let go. If they want to spoil the the grandkid or the niece, then that's what they're going to do. >> And, you know, I'm more like, I don't want more crap in my house. So, don't get us physical things I have to then store and keep around.

Uh, but other than that, there's just a piece of it where you go, this isn't my life. This isn't my finances, and I might have to deal with a fallout later.

We're not going to cover you if you guys retire broke. You're not going to move in with us and we're going to cover all your bills. So, get your crap together now because we're not the plan. We are not your retirement plan.

>> I love that. And you're approaching it from your side as opposed to pointing at them saying you're not doing this and you're not doing this. It just kind of takes the heat off. Uh but those types of questions, George, they're always so tough because you love the person.

You don't want to see them fall. You don't want to see them fail. It kind of reminds me, we have a c a question from Facebook from Kristen, very similar.

So, what do you do?

>> Oh my goodness. I mean, you have a really hard conversation. That's what I've done is just say, "Hey, listen. We can't fit any more stuff in the house.

If you want to do something, contribute to her 529 plan, but please, every time you come over, you don't need to bring more cars and toys and things that I have to then deal with." >> I know. That's right. go give to Goodwill of 6 months from now.

>> Yeah, I I do that. You know, around Christmas time, I had to say that to my own grandparents uh for of my kids. I was like, listen, you guys need to cool out. Number one, they can't intake it all.

Like, it's too much on them. It's like >> stimulation overload. So, I'm like, one thing, and please, for the love of God, can it just be one or two pieces? this business that has like a 100 pieces and you got to have a box to keep it all in and now I got to go buy Tupperware [music] storage to hold all >> I got to assemble it like IKEA furniture all weekend.

>> Please, no more. >> I love you parents and grandparents, but you got to chill out. >> You got to chill out. Public service announcement.

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and [clears throat] they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

All right, back to the phone [music] lines. We've got Mike who's in Oklahoma where the wind comes sweeping down the plane. You weren't expecting that.

What's up, Mike?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, so

about well, a few months ago in July, I got laid off and I'm 45. I've been in

the oil field my whole life. I don't know anything else. I'm having a hard time finding another career.

And my question is, what do I do with my 401k? Should I roll it over into my IRA to have more freedom

with that money or would that be a mistake? >> Well, it is smart to roll it over, but what do you mean when you say to have more freedom with that money because we don't want you unplugging the investment?

Well, I don't want to do that either, but um right now I'm under the umbrella of my former employees plan, so I'm limited to what I can do with it if I

had to touch it, god forbid, >> you know, I'd be penalized and all that.

And and I don't know if for tax purposes

if it would be smarter to roll it over, would I be paying taxes on that right away or would that >> No, the the way to avoid all of this is a direct rollover. So, you never actually withdraw the money. it just straight gets transferred. So, is it a traditional 401k?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you'd want to do a direct rollover to a traditional IRA.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> And that uh you know, I use a SmartB Pro for that. If you want to jump on ramiesolutions.com, get connected with one. They they helped me with this and made it super simple to get all the right forms done, make sure the money gets moved without any issue or tax penalties, all of that. But I think it's a great idea to get to move it from the old employer because you're paying fees.

You have no control over it and you do have more control over the investments once it's in an IRA because now you're not beholdened to whatever you know HR picked the 14 funds. You have access to

thousands. And so I would stick to good growth stock mutual funds, but at least you'll have all the options in the world once it's over in that IRA.

>> So what about the job hunt? Um so you've been in oil all your life. Are you open

to doing something different? What do you think? If you were to say, Jade, here's the problem. What do you think the problem is?

>> That's a good question. I haven't a bad interview. Is it I'm just not even getting into the interview? Is it >> Well, the opportunity is the oil field's all I know. And it what I've learned in the last 20 years doesn't really translate to anything else. Well, I mean, would you consider the oil field a skilled trade?

>> Yeah. >> Did you work on equipment?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I mean, you just you just gave us your resume right there. You know how to use heavy equipment, right?

>> Were you on the like maintenance side? Were you operating it? >> Maintenance. Yeah. >> Okay. So, now we know you have a very clear field. Industrial maintenance is a great field for you. And so, I know it's scary because you go, "Well, if it's not oil, I don't know what I'm doing." But the truth is you know a whole lot about what you're doing. It's just applying it to a new field, >> right? >> So have you actually looked into industrial maintenance tech type jobs?

Like whatever your title was, take the word oil out and then pop that into Google and see what kind of roles come up. See what kind of experience they're looking for and then start applying with confidence saying, "Hey, I worked in the oil field for this long. I'm bringing this much experience. I think I can really serve you guys in this way." >> Yeah, I think George is right. I think uh I think you're capable of a lot more than what you really realize. Uh all those skills are transferable and we see

it. George and I see it. Um if you were employed this long, it means that you have value that you're able to add. So I really think it's more of a a mental shift that you've got to have that you have something to offer. And like George said, going in there with confidence, not I probably won't get it because it's not oil, you know. I think you have to really work on that mindset. Before we get off the line, we'll give you a couple of resources from Ken Coleman.

We'll give you find the work you're wired to do. We'll give you From Paycheck to Purpose. And I think that's really going to inspire you. Um, like

Ken would say, to do the work you're wired >> to. How are you covering your bills right now?

>> Uh, I got some money saved up.

>> How much is left?

>> Uh, about five six thousand probably.

>> Okay. So, it's running out pretty quick.

like in the next month or two. >> Mhm. >> Correct. >> Are you single?

>> Yes. >> Have you done any anything for income since July? Side jobs?

>> No. Uh-uh. >> So, what stopped you from doing that?

Because, you know, a lot of times you do have to do some sort of work in the in between. Any job is good until you get the job. So, what's stopping you from, you know, hitting up one of these, you know, order delivery places and and filling some time there or going over to FedEx or, you know, >> any kind of retail work, >> just something to avoid you depleting your savings to nothing. And then the next step is, well, I guess I got to go into debt, right? Do you have any debt right now?

>> Just my house. >> Okay, >> good. Good. Yeah, I'm worried about that because the from the very beginning when you called in, it sounded like I think that somewhere in your mind the plan is when this $56,000 runs out, I'll be able to get my hands on that IRA and then I'll use that.

I think that's living in your mind as your next option. And I want to eliminate that option completely off the table.

you know, month's income off of your savings. So, what does that look like? I want you I want to hear you brainstorm that. What does that look like for you over the weekend and over the next week?

What do you think that you could start with?

Um, I am on a job hunt already. I

haven't had any luck yet, like I said.

But, um, >> I understand for the major jobs. I'm talking about for the the minors.

>> What could you pick up that's just you filling that gap until you get the big

job?

>> I don't know. I haven't really thought about it like that. Yeah, that's and I think that's what you need because um when you do that, Mike, it's going to help with what I'm hearing right now, which is a lack of confidence. When you get any job, it's going to help you.

It's going to give you something to do every morning. It's going to cause you to get up, you know, get out of the sweatpants and go do something. And then it gives you something to say, "Today, I'm going to do my best at this." And that does something for us internally.

We're created to work and we're created to do, you know, use our talents. And when you have a long stretch, when you're not able to do that in any capacity, it does it starts to wear on your emotions. It starts to wear on your your self-worth, all of that. And I can hear that in your voice. And you're too talented for that to happen. So that's

that's almost as important as getting a

couple bucks in the door, right? Is just keeping your skills up, keeping your talent up, keeping your emotions, and your confidence up. Uh because you are going to find another job. But what I don't want is for you to go in there and because you haven't uh utilized your skills in eight months, you know, I don't want you to be feeling less than or overly eager at the interview because

all that shows too. Does that make sense? >> Yes. >> Calm, cool, confident. So, I would start looking. What kind of jobs have you applied to?

>> Um, I have applied to some of the

industrial maintenance type jobs, but you know, I'm doing it online.

If you don't hear nothing back, it's not like the old days, you know, when you go put a paper application in and go talk to face to face. >> Well, do you know people in the industry and you let them know, hey, I'm looking for these types of roles. If you know something, hit me up.

>> Not really. I try to >> I would be contacting everybody adjacent to the industrial maintenance oil world and just see what's available. Even if it's not the ideal thing, at least something for now to get your foot in the door. and then they go, "Oh my gosh, you're way too qualif. We got to get you in a different role where you can really use your skills." So that's the goal.

That's what I would be doing if I was in your shoes and I know nothing about this field. You are far more talented than me. So, um, I know you got it in you.

And I think right now just, you know, applying online and hoping for the best is not going to do it. You got to be out there. You got to be texting people, meeting with people, talking to people, drumming up business, going, I need to be top of mind when someone has that open role. And, uh, Ken's books will help do that.

I'm going to send you the proximity principle as well. This is the Ken Coleman package right here. It is everything we got, we're going to throw it at you. >> So, two pieces of homework.

You know, obviously the the resources we give you are going to help you, but if you don't do anything else. Number one is, yeah, get on Uber Eats, get on Door Dash, something that you can just get out there, make a little bit of money. I mean, it's not going to bring it's not going to replace your income, but it'll do something. And [music] that's going to be so important for you.

that you've done or knows somebody who's done the job or has done something adjacent to the [music] job. Make a list. I want you to come up with at least 15 names. And then I want you to hit the phones and I want you to call them. Don't text them. Call them up and have a conversation with them. >> This is a sales job and today you are selling [music] Mike. That's the goal.

>> [music]

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[music]

Well, if you've been listening to this show and you like what you hear, or maybe you watch on YouTube and you like what you see and you like what you hear, uh, be sure to let us know and let the people know. Uh, share the show if you can. Uh, like the show if you can, subscribe to the show if you can. All of that is so important.

>> I believe in you guys. >> I believe in you. It's easy to do these days. It is easy.

it to somebody. It's a great way to share the content, help change some lives, and it helps us out a little bit too, George. So, >> yeah. What a weird emoji that like why in a paper airplane were a kid? >> Oh, like send notes to people in class.

>> Well, I didn't do that. I would just hand them over. But >> that's what I'm saying. Like nobody used a paper airplane to like send messages.

>> That's a good point. I don't know. Maybe it's like >> I digress. Maybe it's a Federal Express reference. >> Who even says Federal Express? You're really showing your age. >> I'm talking about from Castaway.

>> Oh, okay. I was like, do people call FedEx Federal Express?

>> It's a very loose connection here.

>> You're secretly a boomer. Reveal [laughter] yourself.

>> Oh boy. Let's go to Nathan who's in West Virginia. What's going on, Nathan?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Of course. What's going on?

>> Okay. Well, let me tell you my situation, then I'll see my question. if you guys have any financial solutions that I that I'm not thinking of. So, I have an aunt who's 80 almost 89 years old and about 15 months ago I got added to her checking account. I handle all of her finances, make sure all of her bills were paid and up until July everything was going good. So, her her total income is about 2,200 a month and I'm going to

estimate that her bills including utilities, groceries, everything maybe 18 or 1900 a month. So, she doesn't have much left over but she did have enough to cover her her expenses. Well, then starting in July, starting in July, we're paying caregivers 247. So, I write

checks, you know, every week to caregivers, but you know, we're paying about 2400 a month just in caregiving expenses. So, the only way we've even been able to pay for it, we've been selling assets. We've been selling her cars, >> but I'm estimating that she's that I'm estimating she's going to run completely out of money probably in April or May.

So, I'd been thinking, well, what other options can I do? And her house is all paid for. So, one option I had thought of was a reverse mortgage. Well, then I looked online. She lives in in a 1973

manufactured double wide mobile home online. It said you can't get a reverse mortgage if the mobile home was built before 1976 because that's when HUD started re >> That's fine. I don't want you to do that anyway. So, we can go to the next one.

>> So, then I thought, well, maybe home equity loan, but I called a couple places. But, you know, when you take her income of 2,200 against maybe 1,800 of

monthly expenses, but then add in 2400 of caregiving. So, now you're over 4,000 expenses against 2200 income. So, nobody's probably going to even, you know, loan money on her house when the debt. >> So, I can't think really really of any other option that she's going to run out of money in the next several months. >> How much is the house worth if you were to sell it? >> Um, I'm This is just a total estimate.

And again, it's a manufactured house.

I'm gonna say it does have about one and a half acres of land with it. It's out in the country. I'm going to just estimate maybe 60 or 70,000.

>> Okay. And then what about with the land?

Is that including the land with it?

>> Yeah. And that that's just a total guess on my part. We haven't had any appraisal, but >> And you said it's 2400

for care. And have you priced out what

if she had just like a single bedroomedroom apartment uh in West Virginia? What would that cost?

Um, I'm going to say it. I mean, it's going to depend on the area. I'm going to guess you could probably get something for a thousand.

>> A thousand. Okay. There might be a situation where you've got to move her and invest this nest egg and kind of draw off of it what you can. Is it just you or do you have siblings that are helping with this?

>> Well, I have a sibling, but I'm pretty much doing it. Yeah, my siblings not helping me. So, >> not much. a little bit. >> Would she qualify for Medicaid that would help cover the cost of caregiving?

>> Well, I had checked into that just very briefly on on the on the internet. It just said something out if if a single person made I think over I thought it said 900 and something a month, although that sounds kind of low, but she she makes more than that. Um I had also thought about calling in West Virginia.

I forget what it's called, but the there's a senior services number through the state. I thought about calling to see if there's any other options that I don't know about. my main options that I considered was the reverse mortgage or a home equity loan. >> Yeah, I I would rather you look into the care options than debt options.

I think what George is saying is that that's a better avenue for you to look into if there's Medicaid or if there's any sort of state program there in West Virginia that can help. Um and then the other thought is, yeah, trying to get your hands on some of this money.

>> Um pretty pretty good. We my uncle which is her brother thinks that she has dementia. We don't know for sure. She's taking a test, I guess, next month that will determine that.

Um, but other than that, I mean, she's had some brain cancer issues, but she's physically still gets around, still walks. Now, she quit driving probably about a year ago, but physically, she does pretty good for almost 89 years old, but >> well, I would have a game plan. Let's assume that she lives a a long life and goes to 99. Well, what's our 10-year plan to take care of this if nothing else changes and the expenses stay?

So that's I would be kind of planning for that worst case scenario of covering these expenses for a long time and that might mean you're pitching in to cover some of the gap.

>> Yeah, I I would be able to some and and I actually even considered getting a home equity loan. Um but then I and then

myself and I thought well but then if she ended up going nursing home and we lost the house there'd be no way to repay. >> Yeah, we can't do debt. I would just take debt off the table as an option. I would rather you sell her place and invest that 70,000 or even put it in a high yield savings account and utilize all of that money until that runs out which will get you pretty far. I mean that's years of of you know a few years of covering her expenses.

>> Mhm. Yeah. On on >> right >> that's I I I think today like I said you

chase down and see what Medicaid will do, what the state will do. Um, and there might be something that you can find there, but in the in the near term, you need money because you said this is going to run out soon. And that 70,000 invested, it's not a ton, but it'll give

you something. And if you can, you know, park it in an index fund and really only draw what you need. And if you and your brother or you and your other sibling can get together and kind of fill those holes, that's really all you've got right now.

And it's one of those things, you know, John would say, "Not by not by my hand, but in my lap." And this has just got set in your lap to deal with.

>> And it sucks.

>> Is there a scenario where she could move in with you or the sibling?

>> Um, I know even my even my mom and dad

had even offered before about her moving in with them. She didn't want to. And my uncle, which is her brother, I was thinking he may even said something, but she didn't act like she she's lived in the same house since 1973. She has But she doesn't have a choice. >> Yeah. Respectfully, she's she's uh between a rock and a hard place here.

So, she's not going to have the choice when she doesn't have the money to live.

>> And so, it's going to it's probably going to come down to that cuz either you pay for her rent or she lives with

family. >> I think those are the only options at this point >> if her social security is not going to cut it and you need to keep paying these caregivers. So, I would do my homework and uncover every stone to see what I can find out about getting her care that isn't 2,400 a month.

Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> There's no there's no easy answers here. The only easy thing to do would be go into debt. And that's a terrible terrible solution. >> Can you tell me when you said it's 1,900 for her bills? What are the What are that what's that $1,900 in bills? What is that? >> Well, she she has three loan payments.

So, one is 244 a month, one is 200, and then one is 100. And then the and then the rest of them are just her utilities.

Elect Well, >> food, electricity. Yeah. What are these loan payments?

One of them was for several years ago she'd got a one of those outside generators that if your power goes off that and then these were all most of these are bad. That was to a finance company. Her interest the interest rate on that loan is almost 26%.

>> What's the total balance of her debts?

>> Well well it's not too bad now because I've been trying to pay them down as much I can see. The total of all her debt combined is probably about 5400 a

little over 5,000. >> Okay. Yeah. I would try to clear that and get out of your life.

>> And if worse comes to worse, I'd cover her four walls before paying these bills and let it go to collections if need be.

>> Yeah. >> So, so and I have been trying to pay him down with extra about a year ago those three loans were about 14,000. Now they're down to about 5,000 and >> I might I might have a conversation with family and go, "Hey, can we all chip in and get rid of this debt?" Because that would really let her breathe a little bit with her current income and expenses. >> Yeah, >> that'll buy you guys some time. Yeah, that's that's the best you're going to be able to do with this. I th the guys

>> cautionary tale, man. This this is what it is. The time does come for all of us where we age and we get to the point where we can no longer work and we get to the point to where we need money coming in. So, please, please, please do not put off important things like paying off your debt.

Pay off your debt now when you're young and you can work extra and you can do all these things. Take advantage of compounding interest now when you can invest. invest 15% of your income.

>> Please do not rely on social security.

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[music]

[music]

[music] All right, everybody. Hip hip hooray.

The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a world-class budgeting app. It can do everything.

There's a ton of advanced features to help make your progress with money even faster, even easier. As a matter of fact, the average person is finding thousands of dollars in just the first 15 minutes. So, if you're interested, which you should be, you can start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or as always on Google Play. All right. Mary's in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Mary. what's going on in your world.

>> Hey there, thanks so much for taking my call. >> I I would love So, I just started really

binging all the podcasts and all the things. >> Awesome. >> Um, and yeah, and I am not a math lady

at at all. So, I would and I've done all my numbers. I have uh and I would love for you guys as math people to give me the Ramsy goal for those numbers as as

far as like a year or two years, however that that I can set um to get myself out

of debt. >> Well, you called the right person. You called George Cam because >> I'm ready. I got my calculator. I'm pushing my glasses up. I'm ready to [laughter] go. >> Oh, good. >> Okay. Lay it out for us. How much debt do you have? >> All right. I have about $60,000.

>> Okay. break it down.

>> Okay. It's in the Ramsay order. It's

about $316 in like a paying for situation. My bank from Chase. >> Oh man, that's

>> why now pay later.

>> Yeah. Yeah. They'll reimburse you into your account and you pay them back.

>> Then I have um 400 on one credit 450 on

one credit card 29,900 on the other credit card. I I do own my car, so no

car payment there. And then the rest of it is school debt. >> Oh my gosh. Wow. So, are those all broken out? >> $1,000.

There's $1,000 um that I found on my credit report that is in collections.

So, I was thinking of paying like 10 cents on the dollar or something for that. Uh but anyway, sorry. Go ahead.

>> $57,000 of student loan debt.

>> Yeah, that's about right. >> Okay. And what do you make?

45.

>> 45. What kind of work is that? What kind of work do you do?

>> I work as a print project manager at my

church. >> Okay. >> And have done so for many, many years.

>> Is print is like print your focus or is

ministry your focus? Like what's what's the thing you want to do most?

It's I believe in what my church says and I

when I started I have you know I have a history of emotional problems. They never fired me of all the problems that I'm sure I caused. So I have I have a deep loyalty. It's not really ministry as in I want to do ministry and no I

don't. I do not have a passion for print. >> I just asked so that we can get >> I just asked because we're going to be thinking of ways to get your income up and I wanted to know where your heart is. If your heart is I want to do something in helping people ministry like that related or if you're like I love print and digital work and all that kind of stuff.

>> I heard project manager and I went ding ding ding. We can make a lot of money in project management with your skill set if you're willing to look outside of the church for full-time work. Now you can still be heavily involved in your church. It just may not be full-time employment long term >> just because we're doing math and volunteer.

>> We're doing math. There's two factors here. George is going to walk you through one. But when we're looking at an equation like this, we say there's two major things we can do.

We can lower our expenses, right? And that's lowering our outgo every single month. It's stopping things like investing in our 401k. It's stopping uh too much withholding coming out of our check, right?

So, those are all ways that we're kind of lowering our expenses. And then the other side of it, uh Mary, is we've got to get more money coming in.

get more coming in. Um so let's talk about two timelines cuz as it is now George I mean >> yeah what can you actually put towards the debt per month right now? Can you put 500 or a thousand? Give us a number of what you can throw at the debt snowball.

Um, right. And actually the not math part of me is got to back up because I do have I make I have an I have acting

gigs that I do already and I've started door dashing. >> Great. >> So, I do have more numbers. It's just a you know, a little bit more, but >> but tell us this. After you've paid the minimums on all your all your bills, all your expenses, how much extra do you put on your smallest debt every month?

about 10 and

no wait wait wait wait okay so tell me one is 75 one is 25 one is 35 one is 75

that's how much >> so you're not you're not doing the snowball in that you're not making minimum payments on everything and then putting all extra money on one debt

>> I >> cuz that's what you need to be doing >> any extra money on on the smallest debt yet because I just started the binge. I just started this. >> Got it. Okay. But currently with your income, you can't put any extra toward it. It's just barely covering your bills with your income. >> Yeah, basically. >> Okay.

Would be >> So, think about it this way. If you continue at the church full-time and you get a little bit of extra money, you'd be lucky to get out of debt in six, seven years. >> Is that accurate?

>> I mean, I'm asking you. >> Well, I mean, think about it. If you put a,000 a month would take you 60 months.

That's five years. if you were able to do a thousand months total toward your debts. >> So think about this. If you did 500, it's going to take double the amount of time. Talking 10 years.

>> And so based on what you're doing, it's over a decade. And so that's where I want you to have the urgency of >> I need to get my income up yesterday, like double my income. And so that's where you you need to get a project management job that pays 60 or 70 and do the side work and then we can clean this up within a year or two.

>> Okay. The good news is the good news is you know how to live off of 40 $45,000 a

year gross. So anything you get if you

can double that knowing that you can live on such a fringe like shoestring budget is so good for you. And I want to flip that uh so that you feel motivated by that and not kind of like overwhelmed by that. If you can double your income uh by finding a a higher paying job and adding a side hustle, which I believe you can. And I believe you can get to 80 quickly, >> right?

>> Um that means all of a sudden I'm doing this in a year and a half.

time frame that you were on before.

>> Yeah. >> So here's your nerd napkin math. If you can throw 2,000 total at your debts, you're done with this thing in two and a half years.

>> Okay? >> If you can throw 2500 at it, you're done in two years. And so you can see the math, it sort of just kind of contracts and expands as you're able to throw more at it. So, the more margin we create, the faster you're done and the faster you can get to the more fun parts of life, like building wealth, having breathing room, going on vacation, upgrading the car and cash, all that good stuff.

Well, I have my numbers now and my goals and

um I mean that's going to be my my job to work all that out. >> That's right. Project management buzz word. We told you, hey, get more money.

And so now you have the hard job of actually going to do all that, but I have full confidence. You start applying to project management roles and your skills are going to transfer perfectly.

>> And so I would sharpen up that resume.

And this is not a knock at your church.

I'm sure it's wonderful, but right now you're in you're in a different season. >> Yeah. And they're probably limited in what they could pay you, you know, and you need to get out there. >> And they don't believe in debt >> either. So, you know. >> Okay. There you go. You know, I love it.

>> I mean, very they're wonderful.

Wonderful. >> Actually, >> it was great to have that opportunity.

>> Beyond Dave Ramsey.

>> That's fantastic. >> That's fantastic. >> You know what? I'm going to send you every dollar as our gift to you to help you put all these numbers out. It's like George in your pocket doing the math, giving you recommendations 247, encouraging you based on your personal situation. So hang on. >> Can it be Jade in the pocket, too?

>> Yeah, but [laughter] just let me just let me have my fun. >> Better at math than >> I fit better in pockets. That's just the truth. >> Pocket sized.

>> Yeah, I'm a little guy. It's one of my only spiritual gifts is fitting in pockets. >> My gosh. But honestly, guys, uh let's talk seriously about Every Dollar.

If you don't have it or maybe you've tried it before, uh you need to get into the allnew Every Dollar. It has changed so much, George, over the past, I mean, even just 6 to 8 months. It's completely new. It's got everything you need.

It's not just a budgeting app anymore. Has everything you need to walk the Ramsay plan the Ramsay way? So, I I know there's plenty of times where you're looking, you're like, "What do I do next? I've just paid off my debt.

What am I supposed to do? Is it 3 months or is it 6 months of expenses? Why is it three versus six?" all those questions that you have. All you have to do is load in your information and do that onboarding and it is going to walk with you step by step so that you can accomplish your goals faster.

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>> All right, welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio continuing to take calls about your life and money. George Camel is still next to me. >> Can't stop, won't stop. >> Can't stop it. I'm Jade Warshaw. Going straight to the phone lines, George, where we have Shelby in Missouri. Hey, Shelby. What's going on today?

>> Hey, I am just I just had some

questions. I'm struggling, but um so

I've been trying to follow the baby steps program. Um you know, save thousands and or thousand and then pay off, you know, the debts you have by the shortest or the like the least amount, you know. Mhm. >> Um, I just turned 18 in August and I've been with my fiance for almost 2 years.

Um, and I have a lot of debt to pay off already and I'm not sure how to do it

and how to get my fiance on board. Um,

he seems to think he can't save any

money until all his debt is paid off.

Um, I think it's just the mindset he's in. But >> you said he can't save any money until all his debt is paid off. So, he's not wanting to do baby step one, which is save $1,000. >> Right. >> Okay. >> Right. And >> how much debt does he have? >> Living he has about $2,169.

>> Okay. And what how much do you have?

>> Um 26,318.

>> What kind of debt is that?

mainly my car. Um, I was getting ready

to graduate in May and I had a piece of

junk car and it had gotten me through

and I was going to travel to um, De

Moine which was like an hour and a half from where we were living and my car would not make it that far. So, my mom, we went to a Nissan dealer >> and she signed on a car for me that I am making the payments of, but since I was not 18 at the time, >> it is in her name. >> It's completely in her name. So, she took all the risk and you're making like Venmo payments to her to then cover the payment.

>> Well, it the account I made the account

that it automatically comes out of my checking. How much do you pay every month for the car? Or how do how much do you pay every month for it?

>> Um, I think it's 14 or 417, but I round

up to 420 every month.

>> Okay. So, >> and since I'm 18, my insurance is out of whack. >> How much money do you earn? What's your monthly income? Just you?

>> Just me, it was about 1,800.

Why did you say past tense?

>> We we moved closer to my fiance's work. He was spending $250 in gas every two weeks. And >> um we moved. He's now 10 minutes away.

Brian currently unemployed. I'm going stir crazy because I want to work, but

we're in such a small town. There's >> nowhere really around. Um, I've applied at jobs called to check status in my

application. >> Work from home call service.

>> Yep. I applied for >> What is he doing for work? >> Customer service rep.

>> He works at um a hog barn.

>> Okay. What does he make?

>> 1950 an hour. >> What does that amount to every month?

What does he take home >> every month? For him, um 2,600.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And then together it was like 4,200. So we were doing pretty good. But >> And you guys have have you combined finances?

>> No. No. Okay. >> Are you living together?

>> Yes, we are. >> Okay. Um how much is rent?

>> Office apartment. It is um 650.

Utilities are 225 no matter what. >> Okay. Um >> um so I you called for one thing, but I

have to I can't just, you know, move past something like you didn't say what you just said. So you're you're very exposed um right now, Shelby. You're

because you don't work. So you're right now depending on someone to take care of you. You essentially you're in a house that another person's paying for. You have a a car that's not in your name. um

that [clears throat] at any point somebody could say, "You know what?

>> Uh say again, >> it's just very overwhelming." >> It is. And so I want to get you I want you to be in a safer space for you, especially at 18. Um [clears throat] I want you to be in a position where you can work. When When's the wedding?

>> Um we were planning on just us two going

maybe next year. just going to Vegas or

Hawaii or whatever. >> You can't afford to go to Vegas or Hawaii. Um, and why I I'm going to hit you with I'm hitting you with a lot of questions. What would be the point in waiting so long

versus getting going to the courthouse?

If you if you've been this has been your fiance for two years, >> everything has been a rush. I rush to move with my fiance, a rush to move across the country with this guy, and now we're going to take our sweet time with the wedding. >> What's your family say? Yeah.

>> What's your family saying? >> Um, I know my stepdad make made a joke of like, "Go to the courthouse. It's free on Thursdays." I'm like, "I'm okay with that." >> Okay. >> But I think my fiance wants to do something like experience something new for the both of us >> and all your family.

>> He's about to experience living in the hog barn if you guys don't take care of business here. I mean, you're you're still like children. >> Mhm. I just >> But we're living like adults too fast, too soon.

that is not in your name and you can't even make the payment. So, I would have a lot of urgency number one to get rid of this car. You do not need a $26,000 car in a town that doesn't even have a stoplight. >> Mhm. You can't you can't keep the car.

And my biggest thing, I asked about your

family because I want to know, is everybody on board with you getting married? If they are, the people that love you and trust that you trust, if they're saying, "Hey, we like this guy.

We're wondering when you're getting married. I then I am too. And I I would say get it done sooner than later so that you can protect yourself because what happens here uh Shelby, if this goes bad, George and I get the calls all the time. So, and it leaves you on the line to dry because there's no legality protecting you in any way.

So, if this guy loves you, let's go ahead and let's go ahead and let's go ahead and get married and then in a year from now, you guys can have a great trip in Hawaii or Las Vegas if you can afford it. Pay cash.

building blocks of getting this foundation a lot more firm than it is right now. And that starts with you guys solidifying a union there, getting married. That way, legally, it's cool for you guys to go ahead and combine your finances. Everybody's way more protected that way.

>> Then the next thing thing too is now I can go get a job and I can feel good about bringing this check home and us together paying off our debt and walking

through those steps. So that's that's thing the two things that you need to sit down and talk with uh I don't know your fiance's name Trent with talk with Trent tonight about that. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And the other piece of this is he's saying he can't afford to cover his $2,000 in debt. Is that right?

>> No, he we're kind of tackling it together. >> You said your finances are separate together with what money? You you don't have a job.

Right. So, I had some money in my checking account and he had a credit card payment that was coming up because when we got paid >> Why would you pay someone else's debt when you're not married to them?

>> He was paying the car payment.

>> So, you guys were just debt swapping.

>> No, I I don't know. Like I think another problem is like when we when we were bringing in like the 4,200 every month is when stuff comes out during the month. It's not a money problem. It's >> Shelby. It's not You're right. It's not a money problem. The The problem is you guys love each other. I get it. But you have you you both have it twisted.

You're getting everything out of order and it's getting real tangled up and really confused. [music] Do the two things I said. You need to get married and you need to get a job.

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show and back to Daniel who's in Rhode Island. What's up Daniel? How can we help today?

Hi guys, how are you doing?

>> We're great.

>> That's awesome. So, um, the short

version of my question is, how do I know

if making a huge career change is the

best thing for mine and my family's future? >> Yeah. >> And then I'll go ahead and give you the backstory. So, I am in the final stages

of the hiring process for what is essentially my dream job. Um, it's something that I've always felt like I wanted to do. Uh, pay-wise, it would be

basically paying me the same as what I'm currently making starting off, but there is definitely a huge potential for

raises and growth within the first few years. However, the big question mark

for me and my wife is that it would also

require us to relocate to a major city in the Northeast, probably either New York or Boston. Um,

I like my current job. I'm not positive

though that it's something that I will be passionate about in the long term.

Um, however, my boss and I have

developed a really, really good relationship and she's basically told me, um, that

should I choose to remain working with them that she would like to groom me to

take over her position within the next few years? >> Um, is that your dream job to take hers?

>> No, it is not. >> Then I think it's the wrong next move.

[snorts] >> It's cool. Well, I mean, it's nice to be I mean, it feels good. You're flattered like there's room for growth here. I like it. They're treating me well. But at the end of the day, it's going to there's a soul tax to be paid knowing there's this other thing over here that you want to experience. And so, I don't think either of them are bad, but I think you're not going to regret taking this new leap. And here's the good news.

Nothing is fatal. Let's say you move to Boston, you take the next gig, you do it for a year or two, and you realize, well, I guess my dream job, this ain't it either, or I want to do this job, but it's somewhere else. you have the freedom to to make that jump, too.

>> Let me let me add another layer into it.

I'll probably be devil's advocate here.

Um, so tell us about your family. How old are your kids? Tell us about your community. Tell us on that side of things. >> Yeah. So, that is kind of like the thing that makes it complicated for me because I know myself and I know that like if I was single and everything like I already

know the choice that I would make, but you'd be gone. I am recent I am recently married. My wife and I um are wanting to

have kids within the next few years and we have a really really good support system where we currently live. My wife

is also really well established in her

job right now and is probably going to get promoted within the next year if she stays there as well. So that's really where the big question mark comes into play for me is like >> and her job won't transition. She can't stick with the company and she can't find something related in the new city that pays. >> She could find something related, but I think that it would it would be a lot more of a headache and I think that it would just like set her back more in her career than where she currently wants where where she's currently projecting to go to.

I guess >> what does she say when you tell her about the opportunity? Is she like, "Honey, you have to take it." Or is she like, "Oh man, I mean, I want this for you, but it really is tough." What's her demeanor? more so the latter.

commit it to me if it is what I decide to do, >> but for the sake of her own preference, she has expressed that she would prefer to stay where we are. >> What about financially? Um, how are you guys doing? Do you need the money? Tell us about that. Are you in debt and this would really, you know, push you forward? Tell us more about that part.

Yeah. So, it's really hard to say

truthfully. Um, I think that it would

increase our cost of living definitely were we to relocate. But I do think that this new job also brings the opportunity to earn additional income because there

are payraises that are basically guaranteed over the first couple of years and it's also gives me the opportunity to earn overtime as well in this new field. So, >> and is this like a once in a-lifetime opportunity? Is this dream job still going to be there two years from now?

>> Um, really hard to say. So, it's a government job. I'll I'll say that now.

Um, so it really is kind of dependent on what like the political atmosphere is and everything whether or not it sticks around. >> Interesting. you know, I I I

will tell you as a person who's moved across the country for a job. Um, it it

is all these things weigh heavily on your decision. And what I can tell you as your friend is both you and your wife need to have peace about it. That's thing number one. Like money and all that stuff aside, once you do feel like you've landed on something, both people need to feel like, okay, like peace

about it. And I mean, I don't know. I I'm just talking to you like a friend right now. I'm I'm the type of person I would pray the prayer.

I'm like, "God, make it so clear." Like, make it like 90 I want a 9010 decision. I don't want a 50/50, right? 50/50 is like, "Well, I kind of feel like we could stay or we could go." I want to feel so overwhelmingly like this is what we're supposed to do. And so, that would be my prayer for you guys.

And that would be what I if I were you, I' I'd sit down with your wife and say, "This is what we need to be praying about." That we feel so overwhelmingly peaceful about whatever direction we choose. and that we both feel it and we both, you know, have that that piece about it.

thing since that's what you called about. I, you know, at first I was more

like, oh yeah, this dream job feels it, but then what you what you were saying about the political climate did kind of I had a little pause there. I also wondered about you said the pay was going to be the same, but you're moving to a major city. So, I do wonder about lifestyle for you and with kids, I wonder what that looks like. Is this a job where you would be kind of like in the city or would you be far on the outskirts?

Those are some questions that I have.

That's something to play into the mix as well.

>> Yeah. Um, I I believe that the requirement is that we just have to live within the general area of where I'll be

located, where my office and everything was in located. So, we wouldn't have to live like necessarily in the city.

Exactly. But, you know, sort of regardless, it would definitely be like a more expensive area for us. Um,

>> yeah, that's something to think about.

>> Yeah. >> Your your your income has to go a lot further in cities like, you know, DC or where, you know, Philly, wherever you're going to be. Um, >> would they cover moving costs, relocation costs?

>> They would. Yes. >> That's a nice bonus. Mhm. That is >> I will say this, it's going to be easier while you guys don't have kids than once you do have kids to make a dream job type move to a different city.

>> So, I'm still in the boat and I'm not Mr., you know, like let's do it, adventure time. But this just feels like we'll figure it out. We'll figure out her job. If this really is the job for you that you really want and it does have room to grow, I'm going to say let's say yes to this adventure.

And later on, if we're like, "Hey, this is not an environment we can raise kids. We need to move further out. we need to switch careers.

>> So, I don't think we can just tell you.

I mean, I think the the flags are there for you to go make the move or to stay.

So, it's not like it's we're swayed one way or the other. That's such a personal decision like Jade said that you guys both need to have peace about. So, I would continue to I don't know if you guys are people of faith. I'd be praying about it. I'd make sure that my wife was in agreement on whatever we decide to do and then let's just do it >> and not look back and say what if what if we had stayed. >> Don't be a pillar of salt. Don't do that. Either way, you go you go.

>> You're going to have the like what if scenario. Well, what if I didn't take it and what if I did take it? And so that's the part you have to just let go of and go, this is where I'm at. I'm going to do my best to make this a great season.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, you know, if for your wife, part of part of change, I think that makes it so difficult is we're not we're just

looking at the negative side of it. But if she can start to get excited, that makes change a lot more fun. So if she starts looking at jobs in that area or if she can start to see opportunity in that area and start to generate some excitement, that also can help um if you

are trying to sway her over to your direction. Excitement is the name of the game. That's what we told our kids when we came to Tennessee. It was like an adventure. Like we're going on an adventure. So [music] anyway, help.

>> Good luck to you. >> Whatever you do, you're going to be okay. That's how I feel. >> You'll be all right. You can always You can always go back. [music]

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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[music]

All righty. Back to the phone lines we go. We got L who's in Idaho. What's going on, L? How can we help today?

Um, well, I'm just trying to navigate

what the right next step is. Um, I guess my main question would be, what do I do about a vehicle that's worth about $4,000 that I owe nine on and needs a

$5,000 repair? And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm like, >> I can't begin to explain how how far

underwater I am.

>> I'm sorry.

[sighs] All right. I hope you took a deep breath there with me. Um, I know. Anything else

besides the car that's eaten your lunch?

>> Oh, sure. Um, about $19,000 in credit

card debt and I have a house that's tied

up in a divorce and um, it's

I can't get it to sell because it needs repairs and it's not in great shape and we can't seem to communicate. So everything's through lawyers at this point, which makes everything super complicated. So the total debt with

everything is $212,000.

$441. $212,441.

and when I'm looking for things to cut out because I'm like, well, I've got to

figure it out because um if I pay all

the minimums of everything, I'm $65 in the negative >> and that's no groceries, no gas, that's

>> mortgage, a car payment that I'm paying on that doesn't run. I'm borrowing a vehicle. I mean, [clears throat] >> what's your income? multiple credit cards. My income is $4,133.

And that's a job that I work 35 hours a week at and child support. So, my next step was >> How much of the 4,000 is How much of the 4,000 is child support?

>> $1,333.

>> Okay. What type of work do you do?

>> Um, I'm a dental assistant.

>> A dental assistant. Okay. Um, what

you're making, so you said you're working 35 hours. Could you do the same work at an office where you can pull more hours and do maybe overtime hours?

>> No, not not where I'm located. There's not a whole lot of overtime hours and actually the office in my area actually pays higher um hourly wages than any other office in this area. I've definitely looked. >> Okay. Okay. Um

if you guys end up selling the house, does that help you clean up this debt and fix a lot of these problems?

>> Oh man. Um, yeah, in theory it

definitely would. Um, >> does he have the money to fix it up or is he broke?

>> No, he's broke and disabled. So,

I know it's just a mess. And >> are you working with a real estate agent? >> Yeah, >> I was, but our contract ended and because of like the turmoil and the drama, she didn't want to renew her contract with us. >> So, now I'm searching for a new one.

>> What type of work does the house need?

Like tell us about it. Is it a fixeruppper or is it like no one would buy this house? It's got major problems.

Tell us about it. >> Um I mean I begged him not to buy this

house. That's the type of house it is.

It needs major work. I mean >> like foundation repairs or the kitchen's ugly. There's a huge difference in that.

>> Like it can be old. We're not talking about like we're not talking about like paint and aesthetics. We're talking about like the foundation and the core of it. We moved in and my two daughters, who are 17 and 15 now, when we moved into the house 2 years ago, we discovered that the 1930 house didn't

have proper wiring or insulation. It was

cinder blocks on the other side of the paneling. So, we ripped them to the studs and redid everything. The basement, like if you go into the basement, the floor above you, you can see how it's like slanted. So, like the basement, we need to lift the like main

floor from the basement. We're talking like major like >> like whoever buys it is just going to destroy it and rebuild a new house on top. >> They're just getting the lot. Yeah.

>> I >> So, what could you sell it for as is?

>> Like, >> um I don't know. somebody offered us 225,000 which is technically more than we owe on the loan but because of the way the divorce decree is stated um we didn't have to accept that offer so he denied it. >> So this I guess my question is um all

that was in place before you bought the house and did you know that going in? So did you buy I guess what I'm asking is did you buy the house for a fair price when you bought it?

I bought the house for like a hundred and yeah, I mean like I don't I feel like it was a fair price based on sure like the value, but like did I know going into it the amount of repairs it was going to need? Yes and no. But at the time I mean >> you should look up the housing market in Sun Valley, Idaho. It'll blow your mind.

So we're just outside of that. We're an hour outside of that. So, the house would be considered >> reasonable based on that. But just the

amount of repairs and what needs to happen to the house is just like astronomical. >> Well, there's part of this where I go, hey, you bought the house, so somebody's going to buy it. Um, and it's not like all that was hidden from you. Um, and I'm not suggesting that you hide it from anybody else, but my point is somebody's going to look at this and go, I'm willing to do the repairs.

I want the property. I want to be close to Sun Valley, whatever that is. So, I would I think it is worth getting with a realtor um who's willing to take this on and can find the right buyer for you. I think that's going to help at least clear some of the confusion out of all this.

You might not take away much money from it is what it sounds. >> Yeah. Why didn't he take that offer >> being a knucklehead? >> Um >> did he want to just drag this out?

Like was it out of spite?

is the nicest way to say it. like he just he had to he just wants to I don't

know he just wants to control the situation and it's it's kind of messed

up because 30 days prior to that the house had been listed at a lower value and again if that offer had been given to us 30 days prior we would have had to take the offer no matter what because it was within 95% of the listing price which is what the divorce decree says.

So 30 days later, he and the realtor decided to increase the price and I just went along with it because I don't care.

I don't care what we sell the house for as long as we pay off the loan. I literally don't care if I make even a dime on it. I just >> We don't have the luxury of trying to get the We just need to get out of this so that you guys can both have some closure and stabilize your financial lives. So, I don't know if that means going back to the decree and getting a judge to to go, "Hey, if you get an offer above this, you have to take it." >> Yeah.

>> I have a lawyer who I'm not having to pay because I went through a special program. So, I have a lawyer that I'm working with that I'm meeting with on Monday that I already met with on Wednesday. >> Okay. So, you're on the path to doing that before the time runs out.

>> I'm trying. That's everything. I'm trying a car. >> Let's talk about it. Okay. Whose car are you borrowing now?

You said you were borrowing someone's car. Who who who helping you and how long are they going to have >> borrowing a car from a friend and I can't have access to that car at all times? >> Okay. Is your credit completely shot? If you went down to your credit union for a loan for the difference, would they give it to you?

>> Um I think my credit is probably shot.

It's probably like low sixes at this point. >> I would at least try and explain to the credit union, hey, I'm underwater on this car. I need the difference I'm underwater on plus a little bit to get a different car. and then you let go of that car. You might get $500 for it for parts at that point, >> but you do not need to be hanging on to this car because if you put 5,000 in repairs, you're still underwater on it and it's probably not worth $5,000 at that point.

>> It definitely is not. It's not worth it.

So, you need your goal is to just get the amount you're underwater on to clean the title and then get rid of it.

>> Yep. $5,000. That's what you need.

>> And that gets you some breathing. >> That's how I have the vehicle. then go to the same credit.

>> Tell them tell them you have bad collateral here. I am way underwater on this loan. I'm not going to be able to pay you back unless you give me a different loan to clear the uh to clear the title and get out of this underwater situation. >> Yeah, that's that's that's first on the list. And then number two is yeah, you got to get a I think if you can get out of that car, that's going to give you some breathing room. Obviously, now you're tasked with saving up some money.

You know, it's great that you have a friend loaning you a car, and I understand that it's inconvenient, but for the most part, it's a blessing more than it is inconvenient. >> It's a huge blessing. >> Yeah. So, get with her and say, "Here's my plan." Because, you know, she's doing you a solid.

So, here's my plan. I'm going to try to get this other car paid off. I'm going to need a little bit more time cuz I got to stack up like $4 or $5,000 so I can get myself a beater and try to get out of this cuz I don't know if the credit union is going to lend me money for that. Right.

>> And then selling the house, you can clear the credit card debt with the proceeds.

>> Yeah. Try to do something that you can work from home and do so you don't need the car. I would suggest customer service.

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>> [music]

>> All right. All right. So, buying or selling your house is a very, very big deal, okay? There's a lot of clickbait headlines out there. There's a lot of conflicting data out there, and it really is hard to know what's actually going on in the housing market. But don't worry, we're here to help you.

We've always got the latest trends, and we make it very easy for you to understand. Okay? So, for instance, median home prices dropped a bit last month. Now they're around 426,000.

Uh a typical season shift uh a typical

season shift as we head into the fall.

So that's normal. Also, buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. Uh so if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy and sell with confidence, we've got you covered. Just go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

So important. All right, George, let's keep it rolling with Bri in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Hey, Bri.

>> Hi. How are you? How are you doing?

>> We're doing great. How can George and I help?

>> Uh, so basically yesterday I had a talk

with my husband and he thinks that he want to change his job. Uh, he's right now assistant manager in a truck company. So, it's a big load of work and

stressful work talking with the truck drivers and mechanics, uh, towing trucks

and everything like that. >> Mh. >> And he thinks that we need to take a car

uh on credit and preferably on mine because my credit score is better than his. Um, and uh, it will be like Toyota

sedan so he can do Uber.

Oh, he wants to quit his salary job to

do Uber and take out a car loan to fund this quote unquote business.

>> Um, yeah.

>> Did I just sum that up? >> So, basically, he he's making right now

a week 1,800.

>> Mhm. >> And his friend at work told me told him that uh on Uber they can make like 2,000

and more a week.

>> Oh boy. >> So, that's why he's thinking about it.

No, I would not listen to this friend.

>> Especially Especially if you're thinking about going into debt for this.

>> Yeah. Here's what's going to happen. He's going to drive that car into ground and the depreciation is going to hit it so hard that you guys are going to be underwater on this car within the first week.

Do you guys have any debt now?

>> Yeah, we have like 40,000.

>> Oh, perfect. Well, let's just add to the pile then and pretend it doesn't exist.

>> Okay. >> What kind of debt? thinking to be honest, but like I don't know how to tell him that. He doesn't even know that I'm calling right now.

>> Um, >> what do you do for work, Bri?

>> Uh, I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm having a baby one year and 9 months and also we having a baby on the way.

>> Wow, congrats. >> Okay. Okay. >> Thank you. So, >> so now is definitely not the time to put our income in flux.

>> Mhm. >> And rely on people who need rides downtown. It's like he need to stick to it like maybe ask maybe at work he can

do work or >> riddle me this. Why doesn't he on the side after work go out and drive with the car he has if he wants to try it out? >> He cannot because we have 20-year-old uh Lexus that doesn't have major issues

with the engine.

>> Okay. So >> so he cannot do it. >> Then then I I think that's a great indicator that this is not the job for you. There's a lot of jobs, um, Bri, and this might be the way you frame it to him. I don't know what kind of guy he is, but there's a lot of jobs that have prere prerequisites to be able to do it.

Like, if you want to be in the NBA, you got to be like 7 foot tall or you got to be able to shoot like Steph Curry. And if you don't have that, you can't do the job. [laughter] And in this case, if you need a brand new, you know, Lexus truck that you don't have, you can't do the job. And I think it's just as simple as that. you could go out and, you know, pull all these strings and pull all his debt to try to force this in, but that

there's no guarantee there. Okay? And so, I think that if he doesn't enjoy his job currently, that's fine. I'm all I'm all for him looking for different jobs that he enjoys more. But if I were in your shoes, I would say, "Honey, I want you to do work that you love, but we here's my my my boundaries. We can't go into debt for it. And if possible, I'd

like to wait until this baby is born so that we can have some solidity going through that and then once the baby is born, you know, go do your thing. Do you think he would listen?

>> I think he will. Um like I was trying to

think like logically is it a good idea

even to get a new car because like we were planning after a given birth of course we need more space

uh especially with a car. I don't have a car but >> yeah you definitely need a new to you car but that doesn't mean we're going to go into >> about the car. Yeah, you and you should be. You need a different car. But what you don't need is another $25,000 loan on top of your 40,000 in debt.

>> And so what I would do if I was in your shoes is go, "All right, we need to save up to get a reliable car >> and then we're going to clean up this 40 grand of debt and we're going to He's not going to be switching jobs. He's going to be working extra." >> Yeah. >> Cuz you guys make seven grand a month right now. >> Yeah.

Seven. Yeah. You guys have a fine income. >> And so how quickly can we pay off 40,000?

>> Do you guys have a budget?

>> Kind of. >> That's a no. >> I'm trying [laughter] to keep up but to be honest uh I don't know what is going on in his credit card because basically

>> uh all that we put on his credit card.

>> So this mine all of them.

>> This is a very Bri, you're helping. So thank you for calling in because you're helping so many people right now. You're right. when you're on credit cards and you know the spouse has a credit card in their wallet that's different from what the the the other spouse has in their wallet.

It does it makes it very hard to stick to a budget because unless that person is going to bank connect all their credit cards to the budget so you can see every transaction coming through. You're right. You have no idea what you're spending and it's very easy to overspend on credit cards so that at the end of the month if you plan on paying it off Yeah. You're spending up ev every bit of extra margin that you had to pay down this credit card.

We over spent for $1,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. You got you have some big

conversations that you need to have, Bri. And I I'll give you three takeaways that I think uh the first one I already gave you, which is you need to tell him that your your boundaries for him switching jobs cannot include debt. And

the second thing is it needs to happen after this baby is born. And then the third thing is you want to talk about a more transparent way of handling finances that doesn't include uh credit cards. Like I want a one checking account. We both have a debit card. We both spend the money that we have on the debit card because I am freaking out

because of our debt. So those are the three things you have to tackle. write them down and you can I mean you know him better than we do so you know the best way to kind of be tactical about that but those are those are your non-negotiables.

>> Do you guys do you guys come from the same cultural background?

>> Uh no like similar.

>> Okay. Where where's what's his background?

>> Uh he's from Usbakistan and I'm from Ukraine. >> Okay. And are you guys immigrants or were you born stateside here?

>> We are immigrants. Everything clear?

>> Great. My parents were immigrants as well. And here's what I want to remind you. You guys came here for a better life. I assume >> whether you chose to or your parents chose to, right?

>> We chose both. >> And so here's what I want to remind you. The American dream is now go into as much debt as possible to fund a fake lifestyle so that hopefully we can impress people. And I don't want you guys to fall into that trap. >> Figure it out in our young 20s.

>> Yeah. They say, "Hey, come get a credit card. It's the American way. You'll love it over here. Get your credit score up.

We'll give you more line of credit. Hey, we can get you into a brand new car. Wouldn't that be nice? Do you see how insane this is?

>> It is. >> And so that's what you need to convince him of. Remind him of what he's doing on this earth. He's got a little baby, a little baby on the way. We need to take care of our family first. And that means getting out of debt and staying out of debt. That's going to that's what's going to cause some actual peace. That's going to cause a real American dream to happen. Not trying to do Uber full-time

with a car loan. That's supposedly gonna put yourself in a better financial position. I can guarantee you it's not.

He's going to be calling the show a year from now saying, "How do I get out of this? I'm $20,000 upside down on my car loan." >> So, I hope that helps you with the conversation. Again, like Jade said, you know how to convince him better than anyone. And I think your feelings and emotions around this should be the first thing you lead with.

And if he doesn't respect that, you have a marriage problem. >> Yeah. That and that's so true. This is a good indicator.

uh when you bring this to him, if he starts flipping out or does it anyway, if he does this Uber thing anyway, your next step is we need to get into some counseling and spend some money on that. That's the tough part.

>> Oh boy. Oh boy. Oh boy. >> So sorry you're going through this break. >> Me too. Me too. >> And he needs to find better friends who [music] aren't like, "Dude, you got to do Uber, man. I'm making great money over here." >> They don't live your life. They don't know your stress. >> I know. That's right. Stick around. We'll [music] be back.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We're here in the Fair [music] Winds Credit Union studio continuing on with your calls. Your life, your money. That's what we're talking about. We do it through live calls on the phone lines.

These are not rehearsed. We don't know these people ahead of time. They don't give us a script. This is just We're flying by the seat of our pants. George, >> life is improv, baby. >> That's right. Let's go. Elijah's in California of the United States. What's going on, Elijah? That's what it says on the screen. What's going on, buddy?

>> How's it go? How's it going? Thanks for taking the call. >> You're welcome. How can we help?

>> So, ultimately, my question is trying to

figure out how to separate from my

parents. Um, about two years ago, we

found out my grandpa was going to lose his home. Uh, we grew up in that house for 15 years. Uh, we ended up trying to help. Um, during that process, there was a lot of lot of speed bumps along the way. Uh, my parents had to pay off some debt of theirs to get qualified. I had to get a loan from my boss to get it.

And we ended up we ended up getting it done. Um, but it's been two years. And

>> what was the long-term game plan here?

>> Mhm. >> Um, really it was to have my grandpa

honestly just live the rest of his life in his home comfortably that he's lived in for about 15 20 years. Um, that was

that was there. You know what we were trying to do. I found it as an opportunity for me. I I told my parents this, you know, it seems like a good opportunity for me later in the future if we end up selling the house to, you know, come up with some cash and just get my future started. Um, but there's

been, you know, some push back, some discrepancies about who owns the house, >> how the money is getting split, and it's it's just been a real headache.

>> Well, whose name is on the deed?

>> All three of ours. So, my stepmom, my

dad, and me are all on loan and title.

>> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. >> And it's a Is it a third each?

>> I mean, we never really discussed that.

I would assume it's a third each. Um, >> like if you sold today and you got the profits, you'd split it three ways, right? You all put in equal amounts.

>> No. So, I put in 14,000. I got a loan

from my boss for $14,000.

Um, >> that feels awkward in and of itself. >> Oh gosh. Alone from your boss.

>> Yeah. >> Kind of awkward to ask for a raise after that. >> Yeah, man. >> He's uh he's been really good to to us.

Uh he really helped us out with that process. It was definitely awkward.

>> Um we did some things along the way that I you know wish we didn't. Uh I didn't know about you guys before that. So we took some money out of the equity. Um consolidated debt.

>> Um >> how much did your dad put in and then how much did your stepmom put in?

not put in anything. According to them, if you ask them, they're going to tell you that they put in $28,000, but in my

uh interpretation of that, they put in 28,000 toward their debt to get qualified for the house.

>> Okay? It's not a dance routine. There's no interpretation. It's how much was actually down when the house was purchased. It doesn't matter what they did to qualify for whatever.

>> Oh, so they paid down their own debt just to qualify for the loan.

>> Correct.

But they actually they put no money into it. >> No money. >> Here's my thing. If you put 14 in, you should get a third of the profits plus the 14 you put in.

>> Is that fair?

>> Yeah. Um the way we've done it from then is because, you know, they want to claim some of the taxes. They want to do these things. I I kind of push back on it like you guys haven't really put any money into the house.

Why should you guys get, you know, all the profits from it? um that that thinking is probably wrong, but I ended up splitting the 14,000 to make it fair to feel like, hey, we've all put in to the house.

>> When you said we ended up, what do you mean you ended up saying? What What do you mean by that?

Um there was just some discussions about

uh the house being sold and they wanted

to claim, you know, my stepmom and my

dad wanted to claim their portion and I was going to get the smaller portion. I felt like I slightly deserved a little bit more because I put most of the money in, >> right? >> Um so, >> and there's no written agreement for any of this. >> Unfortunately, there is not.

>> Okay. And I'm saying who I guess it doesn't really matter. When does >> when are you guys putting the house up for sale? >> So that's the thing is is one of my questions.

Is it is it worth fighting for?

You guys claim the property taxes.

>> I just call BS when this was all for grandpa. This was just a nightmare for the entire family and now it's turned into financial transactions of who gets what. >> Mhm. What's the house even worth if it were to sell today?

>> Um I looked on Zillow and it says about

900, but I don't think we're going to get that because it's it's just not in the condition. It needs a new roof. The air conditioning doesn't work. I've got quotes on all these things. And >> what's the mortgage? Just the mortgage left is 551,000.

>> Okay. So, let's say you guys uh get 800 for it. Is that fair?

>> That that that could be fair. Yeah. >> Pay off the mortgage, pay some fees, 200,000 is what you guys net. Divide it by three, everyone gets 66 and you call it a day or you get a little bit more because of your 14.

I don't know if you can convince them of that. You can create an agreement. I don't know if they'll sign it. This is on all of you for having no written agreement.

So you you must know there's some stupid tax here to be paid that might lose you 14 grand. >> And that's if you can convince them to sell it. >> Yeah. And there there was also equity we took out.

So that would also have to >> Oh my gosh.

>> Um it was supposed to be taken out for property taxes that we couldn't pay. One year we ended up taking out $115,000.

>> Hold on. All three of you together couldn't afford the property taxes on this home.

I I mean at that time, no. I could

afford a couple a couple thousand, but my, you know, I don't want to, you know, speak down on them, but my parents at the time, just financially, they weren't in the position to come up with three, four, $5,000.

>> Then none of you should be in the home ownership game, let alone together as some sort of weird business partnership.

I would try to get a quick claim deed and get your portion and they buy you out and if they can't afford to, we force the sale. the numbers you quoted, was that before or after the 150? So,

are we >> are we deeper in debt than we thought?

>> Are you only going to earn 50,000 off this sale or are you going to >> um probably, but that's you know, that's just another discussion in itself that I

I have kind of heard coming from them that I shouldn't get more than them. Um

I shouldn't get more than them. They they should get a bigger portion. And um

>> well, if we do what you said, which is if there's another loan out there for another 150, what you you know, you don't stand to make much on this.

>> Yeah. >> So, it's I mean that then we're really talking about like how much do you really want to fight on this? Because you said it's worth 551. Maybe you sold it for 800, but if we subtract that 150 out of this, that 200,000 that we thought we would net suddenly goes down to like 50 or 60 >> split three ways.

>> So now you guys are equipped. You're quibbling over $20,000 a piece, which don't get me wrong, $20,000 is a lot of money, but you have to decide.

>> Here's the problem. They probably can't afford to refinance this thing and get you out of it, right? >> Uh-huh. No, they can't. >> Well, I mean, I can try. I can I've

already talked to people about refinancing. I just don't think they they want to take their name off. Um, >> everybody wants out, then just force the sale. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's what you're >> You guys all should have come together to cover the mortgage for grandpa, not buy it off of him and create this family drama. This is destroying a legacy, [music] not helping keep it up.

All

>> [music]

>> right, George. We talk about some very important things on the show, possibly none more important than the will itself because you amass all this debt. You've done well financially, but one of these days you're going to leave the earth. And so, you need to make sure that your family and your loved ones know what to do.

But we get a lot of questions surrounding will. So, let's do a round rob and I'll ask the question, you say the answer. All right. How do you know, George, if I how do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will?

>> Okay.

>> Love that. Okay. Well, what do I need to start my will online?

>> It's answering some hard questions like, who do you want to get your stuff? Who's going to take care of the minor kids?

Who do [snorts] you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated?

That's where it gets real. But you got to know those answers. >> You do. You do. You do. Okay. So, number three, is an online will legally valid?

>> Yes, it's valid in your state. So, it's got to be state specific and match those laws. So, if you move, you need a new will. >> That's right.

The same thing happened to us. All right. Why would I want an online will versus doing a traditional one with a lawyer? >> I mean, it's like saying, "Why would I want to get a my my license renewed online when I can go into the DMV and pay triple?" That's kind of what it's like.

Do you want to work with a lawyer and pay, you know, three, four times more? Be my guest.

So, knock it out. >> There you go. That's that's that's it in a nutshell. So, if you have more questions or if you want to know if an online will is right for you, go to ramseolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. It was right for me a while.

You know, >> I used Mama Bear Legal Forums and it was super easy. >> It did. It is. It is. All right, let's go to Isabelle. She's in San Antonio, Teas. What's going on, Isabelle?

>> Hi. >> Hi. >> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I just had a question. Um I have been at uh my job for a little over a decade. Um

we were recently acquired by a bigger

facility. So I have a pretty substantial amount in my 401k with my previous employer. My question is the new company that we were acquired by does offer a 401k as well. I'm on the

fence on whether I should move it. My husband thinks that we should move it to the new 401k. I I just don't know if a

direct 401k rollover into the new one is

the best option since they're both 401ks. So, I was just looking for some guidance. >> Are they doing sort of automatic rollovers with this merger where they're saying, "Hey, we're going to take all these old 401ks and and just move them into the new 401k." What are they saying? >> They're saying that um we are giving the option for a 401k.

We're not it's not going to be a direct rollover. Um, unfortunately, we're we're still going to be getting um the option to have it, but no, it's not going to go directly to that. >> Oh, you can't do a direct roll over.

>> Yeah, you just do a direct roll over to an IRA that you would control.

>> Okay. Um, yeah, because they said everything that I move to it is not going to get, you know, if if I have a substantial amount in there, it's it's not going to get like >> I don't know why the amount would matter. Is there like some sort of limit to where they won't roll it over if it's over a certain amount?

>> No. No. I just never really dealt with it before. So, >> I would get in touch with HR and see, hey, what's going on with the old 401ks?

What's the plan? If you have great options and low fees in that new 401k and they can do a direct rollover, that's fine. Or if you want to do a direct rollover to an IRA that you control, that's also fine. The key here is you don't want to actually take out the money. You you never want to see this money because then you're going to get hit with penalties and fees. Mhm.

>> So, that's the simplest way to do it is just those are the key words, direct rollover. Great call. Great question.

All right, we've got Monica who's in Chicago, Illinois. Hey, Monica, you're on the line. >> Hi. Thank you for taking the call.

>> You bet. >> My question is centered around my home.

You know, my my husband and I, we bought a home in 2020 when the mortgage rates

were really low. So, we have a great uh rate of 2.5, but we, you know, the last

couple of years, we just outgrown the home. The layout of the home is just doesn't fit our needs anymore. And we are looking either to take out a home equity loan to remodel, extend our current home because we have that great mortgage rate or um potentially purchasing a new home. But every home that we've been looking that would fit our needs is much much higher than our current mortgage at a higher interest rate. >> So, we're just trying to what makes sense? What's the best, >> you know, case for us?

>> Well, what I'm hearing I'm hearing two sides of an equation. It's like, hey, if we keep the current home, we'd like to remodel it, but we don't have the money to do that, so we'd have to take debt to do it. And then I see I see another side over here which says well what if we just took debt and got a bigger house and then you realize but if we did that we couldn't afford it. So the second is

the second option is shining light on what's really true which is you can't afford it. Does that make sense?

>> Well we don't have any other debt. Um we

make um a fairly stable good income.

Mhm. >> We're under the equation that they recommend of like how much is your from your monthly income? How much are you allocating towards your mortgage? We're way under that. >> I understand that. But if you were to add that debt, if you were to take that same amount, let's say, how much do you think you'll spend on a remodel?

>> It's another 150.

>> Okay. So, if you went out in the market and bought another house for $150,000 more dollars, you'd suddenly realize, oh my gosh, I can't afford that. Which is what happened. So, >> especially when that heliloc is at, you know, 8% interest and now it's variable.

So, you're not really winning by keeping the two and a half,

>> right? >> Do you see what we're saying?

>> Options between like not because I see that that has like a variable uh interest rate. So, I was thinking like another type of home equity or personal >> I mean, even a home equity loan, it'll be a it'll be a fixed rate on that, but it's still going to be much higher than your two and a half. So, I I just wouldn't hang on to these golden handcuffs of the low rate, but the all the math of it is you guys can't afford to move to a a bigger house >> with the current numbers and you can't afford to do the renovations.

So, we need to find out a compromise here, which might be we're going to save up and cash flow these renovations over the next year or two.

>> Uh, we can probably save about 4,000.

4,000 a month. Not bad. Yeah.

So that's 50 grand a year and you have 150 grand of renovations you want to do.

Is that really what it's going to cost?

>> That's approximately. We've had a couple of quotes here and there and they vary between 80 to you know depending it

could be up to 200. >> Oh gosh. So it's multiple rooms. You're doing multiple rooms of the house.

>> It would just it would be an extension and it's an older home. So if you're already going to >> the other my other fear is that you overbuild in the neighborhood because what what kind of homes are in your neighborhood? What are the going numbers people are selling for? >> The neighborhood is actually getting better and we see these type of home they call them additions or renovations like coming up like two per block every couple of months.

So that the neighborhood is actually you know moving along the same path of doing this extending your home.

>> Um, >> would you guys want to stay there forever regardless of the mortgage interest rate? Is this the forever home if you added 100 grand of renovations to it or at least like, you know, five or home or something?

>> Yes. Like if we were to, you know, accommodate it, re renovate it, we could see this being our forever home. Um, so

that's why we were kind of liking the idea of like, well, we have a low mortgage rate, we pay a low mortgage, we're able to save a little bit, but if we want to do it soon, we would have to incur this. >> Yeah. What's the exact urgency here?

>> What changed in your situation that the home was good in 2020, but now it's not anymore. Did you have kids?

>> Oh, well, we just got married. We were We didn't have kids. We didn't have pets. And we were we weren't thinking that this was going to be the forever home. But as time passed and now we have a daughter and pets and we're starting to see things more long-term, you know, back then it was even so hard to get a home like because the prices were so low. >> Well, if your mortgage is if your mortgage is so reasonable right now, couldn't you move up in home?

>> That's what I was going to say. I feel like your money is better spent saving up for to close the gap on a down payment of the home that would really suit your needs cuz adding an extension and building on and la that feels like like to George's point that you could really overbuild um and that you're just

uncovering a nightmare of just more and more and more expenses. >> It's going to be stressful for the next year or two even doing this with or without debt. So, I would encourage you guys to go, okay, if we just keep knocking out this mortgage, we're just building more equity, and when we go to sell, we'll get more profit. We can put that toward the next home.

>> That's what I would encourage you guys to do. That's what I've done in the past. If you guys can knock out that mortgage, well, now we have 100% equity when we sell.

All right, it's time for our question of the day, which which is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans

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That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Remember, it's not available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Declan in California. I'm currently earning more than I ever have, but I find myself struggling to tithe. I haven't stopped, but I'm doing it with a heavy heart. I'm married. We're debtree and have a baby.

It's not the same to give 10 bucks when you earn a hundred as it is giving 10,000 when you earn a h 100,000.

>> And what >> at this level, you start measuring the opportunity cost, what that money could mean for your family, the experiences it could fund, and the security it could provide. I'm not questioning the principle of tithing, but I am wrestling with the posture of my heart. My concern is that even though I haven't stopped tithing, it might not be pleasing to the Lord if it's not offered joyfully. Do you have any advice for me?

>> What a great question. >> That's a very thoughtful question from Declan. I appreciate the way he phrased this all >> and uh and I I relate to it. I can actually see where he's coming from as the numbers start to get bigger.

>> There's more zeros on the end. Even though because 10% like he said of a hundred Well, yeah, 10 bucks and I got to live on the 90. That's something now a h 100,000 and I'm giving 10,000 you're it definitely puts some pause.

>> Uh I mean yes you could say that but it's you could also flip the script and be like listen when you only if you only had a hundred bucks and you had to give 10 of it you'd be like shoot like I already couldn't do anything with this money and now >> there's a threshold of like I can survive off of this. So yeah there there's a piece of it where you go well you can can you live >> can you be grateful that you make $100,000 now in California? Who knows that that might not get you very far based on where he's living.

And I don't know how much he makes. He just he's giving us the principle. He didn't say how much he's actually making or how much he's giving. >> He said he's not questioning the principle.

uh believes because I think the heart posture thing I think and I don't know

um Declan, but I think the biggest reminder is if you can remember it was never yours. Once we start thinking of it as ours is when all bets are off.

>> Yeah. We call that, you know, being a steward >> is what the Bible says. And it definitely changes it when you go, I'm not managing this for me. I'm managing it for someone else.

>> If it's not my money, then it's not my business, right? >> I'm just going to do what's right. I'm going to be faithful and obedient, do the 10% and learn to live on the rest.

It's like we do with taxes, you know?

Now, taxes are not fun. I hope you have more enjoyment tithing than you do paying taxes, but you go, "All right, I got to pay my 25% to the government,

>> and I'm going to learn to live to live on the rest." >> Yeah. And I mean, I would just It does feel different when it's the government cuz it's [laughter] like >> that's anger inducing. >> That's anger inducing. Um, I would encourage you since you seems like a a faithfilled person, I would encourage you to to pray about that and ask God, "Hey, help me out with this.

I want to do it, but I don't want to do it based on legalism. I want to do it with the right heart and I I want to be a cheerful giver.

>> ask for help and when you ask usually that door is open. >> You shall receive. That's right. >> I like that. I you know it's kind of this like God I trust you more than my money. And so it's not about losing 10%.

It's just about acknowledging 100% belongs to God. That's that's the faith posture. And it's not that's takes a place of spiritual maturity that it's difficult to get to. And so I appreciate you kind of >> showing us this this journey while you're in it. And a little practicality on it, you know, you're you're faking it till you make it. But a little practicality would be to remind yourself

of all your blessings because you were blessed with now one, you know, the $10,000 that you now have to tithe from uh or I'm sorry, the hundred,000 that you're now tithing from. If you can kind of list out, oh my gosh, here's how my life's better. Here's how this has been a breakthrough for me. like all of those blessings I think will also give you put you in a greater spirit of gratitude to be able to do that. So, >> and a good a great resource on this is Dave Ramsey's book, The Legacy Journey.

He unpacks this beautifully with scripture and the heart and the motives behind it and all about wealth building as well. So, make sure to check out that book. >> All right. Very good. Back to the phone lines. Becca in Austin, Texas. What's up, Becca? How are you doing?

>> Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. Um, my question for y'all is, so I'm in the market. I need to buy a new car. And based off of my savings,

I'm wondering what you guys think I should spend on a car. And if you think that I should take out a loan, and if I do take out a loan, how much should I put down? >> Now, Becca, do you think we're going to tell you to take out a loan on a vehicle? [clears throat] >> Okay.

Yeah. >> We [laughter] like Becca too much. >> That one off the list. >> We just like you too much to put you into debt.

So, let's figure out how much car we can get. How much do you have in savings?

>> Does that include your emergency fund? Is that everything?

>> That's 401k, Roth IRA, checking savings.

>> Oh, boy. Okay. Well, let's take retirement out of this. How much do you have that's non-retirement above your emergency fund?

>> I have just in my checkings, I have just

over 22,000.

>> Okay. Do you have savings like for an emergency fund or is that it? Yes, I I

have savings on top of that.

>> Okay, so what's your 3 to six month emergency fund? How much is in there?

>> Honestly, I haven't broken that down. Um

I have a pretty a relatively low cost of living, so I know that I could live off of that for quite some time.

>> Well, I want to encourage you to split it because here's what happens. The car becomes the emergency and then it depletes your emergency fund. So, I would have a separate, you know, maybe you create another account within a savings account. You can have multiple and one is emergency fund, the other one is car fund. That's what I would do. So, take three to six months, set it aside.

Whatever's left over in cash becomes your car fund. And if it doesn't get you the car you want right now, keep saving.

>> What's your income?

>> Um, I'm in college, so I make just under 23 an hour. Um, I work four to five days a week, so it comes out to about 24,000 a year. >> Okay. And what how much car are you looking at? Like, tell us the number or the make and model.

um either a Toyota or a Honda. I was

hoping originally to spend about $9,000,

but um the car market right now is not

great. So, that's not going to get me quite what I thought. You know, I'm I want to get something that is worth buying something new. Um my family lives in a different city, so you know, I want to be able to drive and see them as well. >> What if you spent like 12,000?

Okay, >> that would be my that would be my top number. So, here's the here's our parameter. You should never have things that have wheels and motors that add up to more than half of your annual income.

So, if this is your only car and you make 24 grand a year, 12K would be my out the door number for you.

>> And so, that's what you're looking for and which definitely changes your search. You're not going to the new car dealership. You're not just looking at any car because if you look at a 2023 Corolla, well, now the the 2012 looks like I'm not going to drive that >> coup. Right.

Right. And so for especially for a college kid, I think you should be driving the worst cars as you're when you're young and it should only get better over time. >> Absolutely.

>> I know. That's right. >> It drives me insane. What parents doing?

>> I agree. [laughter] >> I Yeah, thankfully I I'm not used to a luxurious car. Mine is almost as old as me. So I'm As long as it works, I'm happy with that. >> Well, Becca, you've done a great job.

You're young. You don't have any debt.

You've saved up money. You're working.

I'm proud of you. I I think a $12,000 car is gonna be just the thing you need.

George, I love when somebody young calls in and they got a good head on their shoulder. It's >> fantastic. >> When she said she wanted to spend $9,000, >> let your budget drive what kind of car you get. Not the kind of car you get drive the budget.

Cuz that's where we get it twisted and we go, "Well, they upsold me and they said they could work with me on the payment and then they end up with 20 grand in car loan debt at 23% [laughter] interest." >> Insane. Oh my goodness.

Tok. Okay, >> he says, "Should I put the $1,000 emergency fund in a high yield savings account so it can grow instead of just sitting there?" >> I mean, sure, but grow is is relative.

It's about how much I'm going to grow in height at 36 years old. Let me do the math for you. Right now, you would get $35 in a year. So, three bucks a month

is what you'd make if that Hey, if that gets you excited, >> I'm happy for you. But I would park it.

I mean, I would keep it in a high y old yield savings account just cuz it's a good place to keep it, but no, not for the growth. It's not meant to be an investment. This is your insurance policy against life throwing you some ankle biter emergencies while you're trying to knock out the debt. >> Yeah, it's better there than like in your sock drawer or like, you know, stuffed under your cushion cuz then you might pull it out if you're just running to 7-Eleven.

Well, those socks get eaten up in the laundry, so your money might go with it. >> Be careful with that. We don't want that.

High yield savings account is great for it.

All

right, our scripture and quote of the day. Isaiah 55:8-9.

My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are my ways your ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts higher than your thoughts. >> What a flex. >> I know, right? Come on now. Albert Einstein said, "Two things are infinite.

The universe and human stupidity." And I'm not yet completely sure about the universe, man. Just >> classic Einstein burn.

>> The shade. [laughter] Golly. Tell you what, man. He's right, though. All right. Lauren is in Hendersonville, North Carolina. Hi, Lauren. How can we help today? Hey, thank you for taking my call. Um, yes, I

am um in the final stages of tying up my

dad's estate and um the first thing um

on the list is we're going to be selling possibly one of my dad's cars. And my

husband feels that um my inheritance is

now ours because we are one and that wives are to submit to your husband in all things. and he really wants me to sell the Lexus and I'm feeling very conflicted and I'm not at peace because I'm not ready to sell it. I'm not sure what I want to do with it, but I also don't want to be going against what my husband thinks is best. So, >> I'm hoping for some wisdom on how to

handle this because this is just the first item. We've got a long ways to go.

Um, >> when did your dad pass?

>> He passed away three years ago. three years ago. Okay. So, you've just been going through, you know, little by little and sorting through everything.

>> Yeah, we we ended up in probate. So, um you know how long that can take to [clears throat] get through things. >> Okay. So, what all did you end up with?

That's an >> um So I have I ended up with an

investment account that's worth 390,000,

an inherited 401k that's worth 300,000,

>> about a quarter million in gold, and then a his house which is worth about

1.1 million.

>> Wow. >> And then the car. >> What's the car worth?

>> Um it's a 2018 Lexus LS400. I'm going to

guess it's probably around like 45,000.

Um, I can't remember how many miles it has on it, but it's pretty low. >> So, it's the smallest asset in the entire estate, and we're already arguing about this. And you want to keep it for yourself and drive it.

>> I don't know if I mean, I wouldn't My car is paid for. I drive a a 2018 Honda

CRV. Um, so it wouldn't be like I'd be

driving this all the time. I would still >> Yeah. What's the rush in selling it? Why can't you just keep it cuz you like it and it reminds you of your dad. You got a bunch of >> money here. >> I do have an emotional attachment to it.

So, that's what I'm struggling with. Um,

and I think his concern is like the

upkeep and where are we going to keep it, which are all valid concerns.

>> Okay, I see. >> Um, >> what are the ultimate goals that you guys had before any of this existed?

>> Um, our ultimate goals with the estate or >> with just money? like were you trying to pay off debt, trying to pay off the mortgage? Where are you guys at?

>> So, um we were just paying off our car

loans. We didn't even own a home. We were just renting and we actually bought our home with the life insurance that my dad left us. So, we don't have any debt.

>> How much was that?

>> Um it's our house is worth about 380,000. >> Okay. What's going to happen with his house? Are you selling it and going to invest the cash?

>> I do plan on selling it. Yes. I don't It's in Atlanta and I um I won't be able

to, you know, keep that up or anything.

It's warehouse and I would >> So the 40 the So the true the true

argument around the car, there's only one argument that I see which is we don't have space for it. >> So I'm guessing you guys have a two-car garage and it's just sitting in the in the driveway blocking everything and it's annoying for your husband. Is that it? Yeah, we actually don't have a garage, but um yeah, we just have our driveway.

Um so [clears throat] the it is it it

would need to go somewhere. um that is a hurdle if I were to keep it and I don't think he's excited about having to pay

to store it somewhere or you know he

thinks a lot of the responsibility would fall on him to keep >> well it's kind of almost like I'd almost if you did store it somewhere if you did I'm not saying you should but if you did it's like your grandfather your it's like your dad's paying for it right since all this money came from him >> yeah I mean you you still have another $2 million that will you know manifest itself here from all the other assets what's your plan with that.

>> Um, I really don't have a plan yet. I do

have, like I said, I have an investment account and, um, I I didn't want to get

ahead of myself on what to do with it. I was just trying to close up the estate.

Um, you know, before I figured out how

to, you know, diversify it. But I really don't have a plan. >> Does your husband have ideas of what he would want to do with this 2 million?

>> He does. He wants me to put it in stocks. >> Um, >> single stocks?

>> No, I don't think so. I think they're group stocks. Um, >> like mutual funds, index funds. Okay.

>> Right. Yeah, that sounds I don't have any experience with that. Um, I know he

does. Um, so but yeah, I guess I'm just I don't

want to go against my husband and

but I'm feeling very conflicted because I really am not ready to get rid of it, but I feel like it's going to cause >> What do you What do you guys make of your >> issues?

So, my husband's a stay at home or my husband works for himself. I'm a stay at home mom. I I homeschool our six-year-old. >> Um, he on our last tax return made about

15,000. He just works part-time. Um

>> 15. >> How do you guys live? How were you living before you inherited this money?

>> We're We're using my investment account money to supplement our income.

>> But how were you not >> before you received it? Did you have a trust fund before?

>> I did not. No, he was working full-time at that point. He's since I've received this money, he has cut back a lot.

>> And is the game plan just to live off these investments for the rest of your lives and never work again?

I I do not think that that's why. No, I do not want to do that. >> Let Let's Let me I'm gonna give you some real talk right now. Um there's there's something uh there's a thread in this that that doesn't sit right with me from hearing you talk. Um

and I I'm just going by what I'm hearing you say. Um I feel like

this this money came from a loved one of yours. And it is your money. It's both of your money. But it feels like your husband is feeling like this is what I want to do and so this is what I'm going to do.

And it's almost like for him it's it's a it's permission to do what he wants to do which is now I no longer want to work even though you're saying hey I think you still need to work and this is just here for the family to to to you know for us to live on later and it will continue to be an an inheritance for our children right and don't get me wrong there's parts of that that you can enjoy but then over here when there's something that you would like to enjoy which is I'd like to keep this car around this reminds me of my dad and if we have to store it we'll just use some of the millions that my dad left us to pay for it.

I'm fine with that. But then over there, for some reason, he's not letting you do that. And I've heard you use a little bit of language that is kind of making me feel like it's being taken out of context.

don't want to do that and I don't agree with that and we need to stop and no one needs to do anything until both of us agree at the very least. And that's not

being disrespectful. That's just you being able to have a say and have a vote in what goes on. And it's okay for you guys to not do anything until

there's mutual agreement. And that goes with working or not working. Like I I I

think you guys need to have some tough conversations and you need to let him know that you're not feeling heard >> in this relationship.

>> And the truth is he's just thought about this longer than you have of what he's going to do with this money. He has a little bit more financial literacy. And so your job now is to gain some financial literacy because you just got a whole bunch of wealth to manage. And that might mean you get some pros in your corner.

You have a good tax pro, a good real estate pro, a good investment pro to help you figure all this out, to help you understand it, to help you make the right next move. And then you and your husband can get aligned based on all the advice they give you >> and what your personal goals are. But right now, there's no real vision for this household. And so I don't I don't trust him trying to control you with scripture when he has no vision for the family other than I'm going to make, you know, 10 grand a year for my hobby.

And so I think we have a lot of things to figure out before we do anything with this money.

>> So I hope you guys can get to the root of that. >> Yeah. What a gift, but allow it to be a gift. Don't don't turn that blessing into a curse by letting it [music] pull you guys apart. That's that's for sure.

Woo! All right, guys. Well, that does it for this episode. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 251. You Can Stay Broke Or Start Changing | October 10, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. All right, we're talking about your life and money. Nothing's changed. The number is 888825-5225.

That'll get you on the line. and I'm here with Dr. John Deloney. I'm Jade Warshaw. Let's get into it, John. Let's get involved. We got Dana in Phoenix, Arizona. What's up, Dana?

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> No problem. >> Um, my question is whether or not my

husband and I should accept a gift of $38,000 from our in-laws when there is a

major history of dysfunction around money in his family.

>> What's the gift for? Why is it just out of the blue or is it for something specific?

>> Um, they pretty regularly are trying to give us money and pay for things, but this gift apparently is for tax

purposes. They recently met with their financial planner um tax accountant who

told them that because of their gains that they made this year in the stock market that it would be tax advantageous for them to gift um each of us $19,000.

Mhm. >> Um the backstory really is that um his

parents have used money as a tool for control and manipulation in the past. Um

so much so that um when we were planning

our wedding 17 years ago, um we ended up

eloping because of their behavior around money. >> Wow. >> Um and the money issues as well as other things led to us not having a relationship with them for 10 years. Is it just your husband or are there other children?

>> Um, he has a brother. Um, things are kind of different with his relation, his brother's relationship with his parents.

They just have very different personalities and how they handle things. Um, >> so the money's not been a problem for the brother that you know of, or is it kind of a problem for him, too?

Well, they've sort of used the same tactics with his brother except that his brother and his wife gladly accept money from them anytime it's offered. Um,

since they've reestablished their relationship, my husband and his parents, six years ago, um, they actually ended up moving to our small town two years ago and since then it's just they're constantly trying to give us money. We're business owners.

>> Give us an example of the manipulation.

Tell us what that looks like. tell us what happened either with the wedding or and tell us tell us >> I want a recent one. >> Yeah. >> You want a recent one? Um so anytime so

like I said we're business owners.

Anytime something happens so if a truck breaks down or you know just regular business things happen it's let us pay for it. We'll pay for it. We'll buy you another truck. And when we say no >> um they tell my husband that he's being difficult. They don't understand why they won't let him let them just help.

And what does he say? >> Um, there's there's crying, there's a

lot of emotion is important, what is his next statement? If if his next statement is, I love y'all too much and I'm so glad we have our relationship back. I can't let money come between us, that's one thing. If he when they start

crying and he says, "Fine, just fine."

Um, then that's another thing. So, what's his response?

his response to them is that we're just

not comfortable taking the money or the help. Um I don't know how indepth he's

got with them about because of money issues in the past. Um because generally when he's tried to bring up things from the past, he's usually met with I don't know what you're talking about that never happened. >> What and what were those? Tell like I need from you Dana like the raw and the real. Do you know what I'm saying? like tell me when we did it he slapped her and said that she he was ungrateful.

Like tell me the drama part of it because honestly at this point as you're telling me it doesn't really sound like they're bad people or like doing anything wrong per se. It just sounds like they see an area they want to help and they're confused that you don't want their help. And them being confused doesn't make them bad guys to me or manipulators. just makes them parents

that are overstepping a boundary that maybe you've laid over and over again and they just can't see why you wouldn't want to take a gift. Tell me the the toxic part of it. Is there a toxic part of it where when you take the money they try to control you and tell tell me that part. >> Yes. So I'll give you our wedding example. Um when we were planning our wedding where we were getting married was a resort by a creek. Um and as is

traditional and normal, we asked his parents to pay for their lodging. My father was paying for our wedding >> and um the lodging that we offered to

them. My parents asked did they do they want this house. It was the house that was right next to the creek. It had four or five bedrooms in it and we figured that their whole immediate family and everyone could stay in that house since they were traveling.

>> And if they didn't want that house, my parents would have paid for it. Um

when we presented it to my father-in-law, he said, "Of course, he paid for it." And then as soon as money was involved, we started getting constant phone calls telling us what to do with our wedding, how to plan the weddings, who could come, who couldn't come. I remember very specifically getting a phone call from my father-in-law asking me when I was going to send the save the date. And my timeline on sending them was unacceptable to him. And he specifically said to me, "This isn't rocket science, Dana.

You need to send it back." >> Got you. Okay, now I'm starting Now I'm starting to get it. Okay, so you had this badam this bad thing that happened a long time ago and it's kind of left a bad taste in everybody's mouth. You don't want to take money anymore.

And when you try to explain to them, hey, the last time we took money, this is how you guys acted. We don't want to do that again. They're kind of like, don't bring up the past. What are you talking about?

>> Well, the thing is is we haven't really addressed the past.

>> Okay. So, it sound I mean, John, jump in here because >> Yeah. Here's Did your husband

do y'all just not want to take this money?

it. Well, the issue is mostly for our

business. We're very proud of ourselves that we've built this business. Um, >> yeah, but there's there's a point of that where it becomes ego, >> right? Cuz I'm listen, I'm looking at 38,000 and I'm like, tell me more because this >> I built something I built something cool, too. And if you want to send me 38 grand, I'm happy to take it.

>> It's just that >> you y'all have had a grenade dropped.

It's a grenade's probably dramatic. You've had a large firecracker dropped in your living room. they offered you 38 grand. If you take it, that might come with you're going to do Christmas here because we gave you this money and yall are going to say, "No, we don't want to do Christmas there. We're going to do somewhere else." And they're you're going to have an adult temper tantrum on their side. Or you're going to say no to the money and you're going to have an adult temper tantrum on their side.

>> So, they've already taken the step.

>> So, really, here's the here's the bigger issue. You're still, no matter what decision y'all make, you are letting them drive the right decision for you and your husband. And at some point, y'all have to decide that we decide what's best for us.

>> And if it's taking the money and dealing with drama or dealing with somebody saying, "You didn't send these out in the right time." Shut up. Who cares?

>> Yeah. as you say on the front end, hey, we're not we just want you to know we're so grateful and this is such a nice gift, but please, we don't want any strings to be attached, which means if it's a gift, it's a gift and we'd be grateful to you for giving it, but we're hoping that there will be nothing else attached to it. And if there is, let us know now so we can decide. That's what I' that's what I'd say.

>> Or they can create a 529 for their grandkids. >> Yeah.

your money." Yeah, you could say that, too. >> Cuz I'm willing to bet I'm willing to bet you would have started getting those emails and calls if he hadn't have had to pay for his own place for that wedding. Is that fair?

>> Yeah. >> So, they're going to be like this whether they're giving you money or not, right? >> Oh, that's such a good point. >> Yeah.

It's just such an ongoing issue. I just don't I know it's important to me and I don't want our relationship to get affected. The relationship's already affected. >> It's already a problem.

>> Yeah. I don't think the money is the problem. I think their personality style and their personality traits are the problem. And money just magnifies everything, right?

It magnifies you as you already are. It makes you more of what you already are. So, it's more of I don't really like their personality. They're controlling people.

That's another topic. >> So, you're in a fight.

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[Music]

[Music] All right, back to the phone lines we go. We've got Kelly who's in North Carolina. Kelly, how can we help today?

>> Hi.

I've got some credit card debt and two of them um is over 26,000. 26,76.

I'm overwhelmed. Um I've tried to keep

up with everything. Uh but with the interest rate, I'm not getting anywhere.

And so, um I don't know what to do. I don't know whether it's bankruptcy.

Um I've called different debt things. Uh and they want like the fees are like

$16,000, $10,000 for fees. And

in in my hand, I don't see that that's a real I don't know what to do. I don't know what to call a bankruptcy or what to do. I'm we've um

>> um we've cleared off uh I think five six

cards and we're shut down. We're

shutting them down as fast as we can.

But the uh two and we have a couple others, but we we can work those through. But the two with the chase,

I'm I'm at Williams. I I don't know what to do. >> Okay, Kelly. So, can you told me the the

two that's got the 26,000 on it? Can you tell me the rest of the debt?

>> Yes, I can. Um,

well,

I thought I could.

>> So, because you mentioned you said the two combi the two combined is 26,76.

Then you said there's a couple others that you can kind of handle.

Yeah, there there's there's one that's um 8,000 with discover.

>> Okay. >> But I think that we could handle that.

And there's another one I think that we owe when I I had it right in front of me.

Now I can't see. >> That's okay. You you look for that. And um I I'll just verify a couple other simple questions. You said we is it you and your husband?

>> Yes. >> Okay. How old are you guys?

My husband is 78 and I just turned 76.

Uh my husband had pastored for 56 years.

We lived in church parsonage.

>> Okay. >> And so then we had to move into a house and we used a lot of credit cards.

>> Okay. So you guys have really been using credit cards to live on.

>> Yes. Okay. That is so true. It was so true. >> I'm sorry, Kelly.

>> That's okay. I need to bite my bottom lip for a minute. Yeah. >> No, you're okay to be sad. You're right to be sad.

>> But I'm trying to I'm trying to work it out. Um I don't know. Should I try to

call? >> No, no, no. You called the right place.

You called the right place. What's your total? If you had to add up all the money that you owe somebody else, how much is that?

Um,

well, Discover we owe um 8,23655.

>> Okay. >> Um, and there's another small one and I

can't find it. It's like $430 or

something like that. We can >> we can do that. I want to do what's right before the Lord. I just >> Well, listen, you're on the right track.

your your heart and your mind are saying, "I need to clean up this mess." And that's the first step, and we're going to help you with the rest. >> And we don't go out to eat here at the

house. >> We um I have sold stuff right and left

like >> um there's something somebody's supposed to come and buy today >> that if they show up, we'll help.

>> Yeah. Listen, I believe that you're doing all that, Kelly. I think you're doing all the right things. We're going to try to help you take the next step.

Can you tell us what your income is every month between um >> Yes, I can.

>> My um let me get my ledger here. I get

$1,63860

in um Medicare. >> Okay. >> We have a house rental that we get

$1,12.50 a month.

My husband gets

his social security is $1,598.90

a month. >> $1,5.98. Uh-huh.

>> And then um

from the Southern Baptist, uh he gets um it's called a housing

allowance. So um >> we don't have to pay tax on it. and that's $38,2.39

a month. >> Okay. >> And then he gets um a small VA

disability check of 17123 a month.

>> Okay. >> And then he gets a small retirement uh

372.95 for teachers retirement.

>> Okay. So you're almost 5,000 bucks a month. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Good. it. So, um I mean I'm really

um >> How much of that do you pay? I know you get a a a housing allowance, but how much of that do you pay to your home every month?

>> We our our house payment is $2,1664.

>> Okay. Um that's a big part of this while

you're feeling so much stress. Okay.

your your housing payments high. Um, and

can you tell me, you said you moved into that house recently. Can you tell me what the house what you purchased it for?

>> Well, um, 19 years ago when my husband

was pastored, he had a a major heart

attack while preaching and he had to have a four bypass >> and we were a long ways away from the hospital and so we stayed at a place called Annette House. So, one of our

heart's dreams that we would pay that forward. So, our heart was the house that we have here has three bedrooms

downstairs and a very, very large room upstairs. >> Got it. >> So, what we want to do is establish a place called the shepherd's home where people have >> they can come and stay with us and we can still minister to them.

>> I love Go ahead, John. >> I was going to say, Kelly, can I tell you something? And I'm telling you because I love you.

>> Yes. Y'all can't afford to do that right

now.

Your heart is so big

and it's like it was such a blessing,

but y'all aren't in a position to do that right now because y'all can't make your basic payments, your basic bills. And that dream is amazing.

>> And we know that we can't do it until we get out of debt. >> I know. But you don't you even if you were out of debt, like sustainably speaking, like it's it's it it I don't know there's ever a scenario where 50% of your take-home pay or 40% of your take-home pay should go to housing because housing the the taxes are going to go up, the cost of electricity is going to go like this is going to continue to be an escalating burden for you. >> Yeah.

So, we've got to get you in a a position that's sustainable for you to manage the monthly payment of your rent or mortgage and also to your point, make make some

headway on these credit cards because you can't pay them off making the minimum payment. >> Do you have any equity in this house that if y'all sold it, you could clear your debts?

>> No, we don't. We don't have we have well

and one of the things I I didn't understand is the first year we overpaid

>> our uh taxes on the house

>> and the tax company here did a refund to

the mortgage company >> and and I told the mortgage company I said we've overpaid you. you need to either give us that money back or let us apply that $7,000 over payment to um

>> to principal. >> Mhm. >> And they said, "No, it went back in escrow or in um >> for the following year." >> Yeah. It just goes into the following year's taxes. So, you're not going to lose that money. You just don't get it right now. >> Uhhuh. It it's gone towards the next year's taxes.

>> So, >> but see, but every every month they take out money out of our taxes. So, why didn't they >> Kelly? I didn't know >> here's what I I want to hold you over cuz >> your problem is one that millions and millions of people are facing and so I want to give you a step-by-step plan and I don't want to get distracted by well the tax's over here and this over there.

>> Um but I want to I want you to hang on the line. We're going to go to a break and we come back we're going to walk through this with you. Um >> but you're going to have to open your heart up to some significant changes in how y'all are doing life so that y'all can put your own oxygen mask on first and then be able to take care of the people around you.

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[Music]

[Music]

If you're a person who's been rocking with us for a while, you've been watching the show on YouTube, maybe you check it out on podcast or on the Ramsey Network app. Hey, maybe you're still listening to us on a thing called the radio. We're really grateful for that.

>> Love the radio. >> When was the last time you had the radio on? >> I had it on this week. >> I love that. >> Just listen to old country music.

>> I love that. Wow, that's great. >> And hey, here's a flex. My son, he's 15,

is like, "Dad, turn off this. Like, just turn the radio on." >> And I'm I'm just wondering if they're done with all the players >> reverting back. Yep. >> I love it. Listen, wherever you're listening to the show, first off, we just want to say thank you for listening. If it wasn't for you guys, John and I wouldn't have jobs. So, thank you so much for listening. And if this show has done anything for you, take a moment and share it with somebody.

Honestly, the best marketing plan out there is just word of mouth. So, if you like the show, if we said something that hit, uh, share it with somebody. Hit the little paper airplane on social or, you know, send them a a link, you know, slide in their DMs, whatever, whatever method of choice that you have. Keep sharing the show.

We really, really appreciate it. Something that you can do totally free and only takes a second of your time, but has a great, great benefit. Thank you so much. Okay, we are going to go back on the line.

Uh, just a little recap, her and her husband, 78, 76 years old. They've got a decent amount of debt. So far, it looks like they've got somewhere around maybe $36,000 of debt. We haven't gotten the exact number yet, uh, but they're making 5,000 bucks a month. And she's looking for a way out. We were able to figure out that her house payment is 21,00,000.

So, right now we're talking about uh what it looks like, Kelly, to sell your house because I know that you have a dream of ministry and, you know, being able to gift those rooms to people in need in your three-bedroom house, but uh >> or is there a possibility that you in the short term, maybe the next year, um Kell, you um invited people to live with

you and charged them a,000 bucks a month

or 500 or $800 a month and they could rent the rooms. from you for the next year, the next two years while you all climb out of debt and get yourselves in a better position.

>> Well, actually, we have a really, really large room upstairs that has um, you

know, complete bathroom. It's got a couch. It's got >> Sure, Sure. Sure. Sure.

>> queen bed and everything.

>> And we thought about renting that out, but everybody that we've talked to wants an outside entrance.

>> Sure. I can see that, >> Kelly. I'm going to shoot you straight. Here, here's the Yeah, here's where you find yourself. >> I'm going to shoot you straight. You've got to sell your house. Um, renting

renting is putting way more on your plate at 78 years old. It's something that you'll have to keep up indefinitely because, like I said before, you're on that fixed income. So, your plan today, I'm going to tell you right off the bat, your plan is to rent, put your house up for sale, get on ramseyolutions.com, and find yourself a realtor because we have the best in the business. And you got to sell this house.

And after that, you've got to find something, even if you rent for a while, something that is only 25% of your take-home pay. That's all you can afford. So, you're spending like $1,250 a month or $1,500 a month.

basically your budget there. And then from there, we're going to do a little thing called the debt snowball. You're going to list and you're going to go through tonight with your husband and you're going to find all the things that you owe. You're going to list them from smallest to largest and you're going to pay the minimum payment on everything, Kelly. But the smallest debt, that's where you put all your extra money until you knock it out. So, it sounded like you had one that was for about $430.

Let's get that one knocked out immediately. And so, that's how this is going to work. And then you'll go to the next smallest debt. In the meantime, we're going to get you uh hooked up with Every Dollar.

And on every dollar, you can get a free coaching call. So, we're going to make sure uh to get you hooked up. uh our phone screener is going to pick up and make sure to get you hooked up with that. Okay, so you're all taken care of.

>> I I think something else I want to call out here. If you have too much house, right, and by the way, let's go back to Kelly for those of you who are just tuning in.

That's amazing. and

they've got a math problem, which is we can't afford to pay off our debts and make our make our our payments. So, if you buy a house that's too much, usually that means depending on what market you're in, that house is big, which means your >> electric bill is high, your water bill is more to air to air condition and heat that place is more. So, in their situation, they may be looking at a one-bedroom apartment because that's what they can afford. >> Absolutely. And that also drops their

utility payments. It drops everything.

So, you're not just going to see the the the savings in the mortgage. You're going to see savings that come from all over the place. >> And that can help you get out of there faster. >> And let me just can I just say this cuz I I feel like we live in a world today where everything has to be bigger and better and flashier and newer. Can I just say there's no shame in living on your hard-earned income. Yeah.

>> And just living on what your income can afford you. that credit card companies will make you feel like you need more and we need extra. But to just work hard

and in her case to have worked hard for, you know, seven levels of life, right?

And to just say, "Okay, we worked hard for seven seven decades. We got $5,000.

That is our income and we are going to live on that and have pride in that and feel good about that." There is no shame in the game of that. That's right. >> And I just >> It might look differently than you dreamed your 70s would look, >> right? Um but man oh man that you're talking about um an amazing woman, an amazing husband who are really on the edge.

They can't handle another financial emergency, another health issue. >> Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right, let's go to Lucy who's in Atlanta.

All right, Lucy.

>> Hi, Jade. Hi, John. How are y'all >> doing? Great. >> Good. It's nice to talk with y'all. I'm very honored to speak with you. I grew up in Murphreey'sboro, Tennessee, right down the road from y'all. and we took a Ramsay course my senior year of high school. Got away from it a little bit.

Came back here recently about three months ago and started listening to the um to the show and I me and my husband

we got married about a year and a half ago. Both brought some credit card debt into the relationship and ended up paying that off as of yesterday. Good.

>> Um so we paid off about 7,000 and um so

now we're on baby step three. obviously saving for 3 to six months of expenses, but I kind of wanted to know, I had mentioned this to my dad and he had said that it would be a good idea to reach out to y'all and see what you think. Um, once we save up for that 3 to 6 months of emergency fund, would you recommend

saving even more just in case anything happens like with our roof? I know that's technically what the emergency fund is for. Yeah. Or even putting stuff aside for travel fun items.

>> Okay, so yeah, we're talking about two different things. I love the question.

Um, yeah, after baby step three, so the purpose of baby step three, let's just re reiterate, is for emergencies. It is an a fully funded emergency fund and we

suggest 3 to 6 months. Now, whether you do three or six months is largely dependent on personal factors. So, if you're a single person with one income and maybe you have a a health issue that flares up every couple years, you want six months, right? You want more.

You want to make sure you can cover your deductible, all of that. Uh if you're a family, maybe you're a family and you're dink and you both have a high income, you have stable jobs, you're healthy people, maybe you opt for three months, right? So it's up to you depending on those sorts of factors. In today's world, I'm not going to lie, for most people, I'm like just go on ahead and do six months.

Um I just feel like >> we like that security the way the world is now. I don't know. Um so once you get that six months, Lucy, that's really all you need.

syncing fund areas, whether it be like you said, we know we need a new roof, we know that's coming. If you know something's coming, it's not an emergency yet. So, yeah, you need to save up. Um if you know you want to purchase uh you know, upgrade your car or you know that you're putting a down payment on a house, right?

So, those are those are syncing funds. And just a reiteration, maintenance and known maintenance, John, is not an emergency. You know, your car is going to need new tires. Save up for it.

You know, if you have a a a leak and you see it starting to form and you know, like, hey, I'm not going to run this through insurance. We're just going to pay for it. Save up for it. That's not an emergency.

You knew you see it coming. You know it's coming. Uh so that's just a little sidebar there. But yeah, >> the ex the thing the thing that happened to me and my wife is we had to replace the roof without thinking we were going to have to >> and then of course that's when the air conditioner went out.

Right. >> Right. So we were able to save up for the roof issue and we had an emergency fund for the air conditioner. It and if we had just tried to play it out be like just pretend it's an we'll wait till it's an emergency.

>> Yeah. >> It you you'll they'll double and triple up on you. >> And now my screen said you never mentioned this. My screen said when can we open fun accounts while working the baby steps.

You didn't mention anything about that. So, let me just hit that right quick. Uh, yeah, after baby step three is when it's time to start having some fun again.

[Music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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our worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features uh to help you make faster progress with your money. Uh as a matter of fact, the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. Matter of fact, we've gotten some calls through here, John, already of people saying, "Hey guys, I'm I'm in the allnew Every Dollar and I've already found, you know, x amount of margin and I'm putting it towards my debt." And so I think that's really exciting to hear.

But you can start today uh at every uh you can start your every dollar today for free. Uh you can get in the app store or at Google Play.

So, it just takes a few minutes, give them the information, then it's going to spit back, hey, based on what you told us, here's the amount of money that we can find you. And I'm telling you, there is money hiding in plain sight in your budget. and in your finances. You just needed somebody else to look at it.

And so it'll look at it, spit back and say, "Hey, we found you x amount of thousands of dollars. Here's what you and then it'll tell you, here's what you need to do to get it." And so then you can say, "Do I want to do what it's telling me to do, or do I not want to do what it's telling me to do?" And so you go through the recommendations it gives you. And then you can say, "Hey, I agree. Maybe I agree to these, but I don't agree to those." And you check the boxes.

And then it'll say, "Okay, based on the ones you agree to now, here's how much money you'll have." And it'll keep walking with you as you do what it's teaching you to do.

>> But you don't want me there. But it's like having you or Dave or George, somebody. That's what they're talking about. But yes, it's pretty amazing.

>> It's pretty awesome. So, if you have if you don't know, now you know. All right, we got Eric who's in Knoxville, Tennessee, right down the road. What's up, Eric? >> Hey, guys. Thank you for taking my call.

>> You got it, brother. What's up? Um, my question is, well, I'm getting I'm 19 years old and I'm getting married next year. >> Congratulations, man.

>> Thank you. And I feel like I've always been generally pretty smart with my money. I've never had to take out money for anything. I paid for my car in cash and um I always g I grew up on 21 acres

with my parents and I've uh saved up

enough money that I was able to build my own mini home at the bottom of the property. >> Dude, way to go, man. I paid paid cash for that and everything. >> What? >> But I'm still in school.

>> Hold on. You're just blown by this. You are in a better shape than most people in the country.

>> It's incredible, dude. Who? And I know that sounds silly. Like you got to paid for a car. You got to paid for a place to live, >> right? That's amazing. >> Yes, sir. >> Who taught you this?

>> Uh my parents. And I've always I mean I've been watching Dave Ramsey since I was 12, 13.

>> Lots of people watch, but very few people live it like you are, man. Well done, brother. That's cool.

>> So, how can we help?

>> Well, my question is, I know later down the road, it's just, you know, 500 square f feet, really small. I know later down the road, probably five, four or five years, I'm going to want to be able to buy a house, but um me and my

fiance, we have no form of credit coming in at all. >> Good. >> We've never had loans on anything.

>> Fantastic. The only the only loans we'll even be taking into the marriage is she's about to graduate graduate nursing school. So, we'll have um about 15k in

student loans. >> Okay. >> And I'm hoping to have that paid off in the first year. >> Mhm. >> Um I'm still in school, so I'm just working part-time. So, I'm working as a pest control technician part-time.

>> Okay. Good. >> So, I'm only making about 30K.

>> Okay. >> And she has a job lined up making about 75K when she graduates. So our first year of marriage take home should be about 100k, >> right? >> But um my question is just when I want to, you know, take that next step and actually build a house and build a family. Um is there something we should be doing to build credit?

>> No. Um but I do want to address that. So

there's a couple areas of this I I do want to address. I agree with John. I think that you're doing a fabulous job, but I also want to say there's no rush.

So that is the if you can embrace that

then you're going to be home free. Um

there's a lot of times John this rush is like I get married then I got to get the house then I got to do it's like you're trying to like check boxes really fast and you've got so much time Eric and you're in such a good position. I don't want you in such a rush that you start going back on all of the things that got you where you are today which is you I don't borrow money and I'm not interested in building this credit score. Right? Those are all these things that you've done and you've gotten great results, right?

You've the fruit of that is amazing. So, just remind yourself the fruit is the proof, right? The fruit of what you've been doing is the proof that it's been working for you. So, don't go back on it.

Now, here's the thing. Let's talk about the no credit score thing because you're right. When you guys get married, you're not going to have a zero credit score because you've got this student loan open here. And so until you guys get that paid off, get that account closed, and then it's going to take another six to eight months for your score to drop away or for your wife's score to drop away, um, yeah, it'll be tough for you to buy a house with a low credit score.

>> Does that make sense? So having a low credit score is not going to help you out, but once you pay it off and you have a no credit score, you will be able to do that.

That's who I have my mortgage with.

John, I'm pretty sure when you had a mortgage, that's when you had who you had it with. >> My credit score um was zero. It it was non-existent. None.

And they just do a process called manual underwriting. And that's the way they've done it for a jillion years before they started turning us all into algorithms. And that just means I had to send them a letter from my employer. I had to send them a tax return.

I had to send them proof of employment.

He has always paid his bills on time.

Nobrainer. Here you go.

Gotcha. >> Does that make sense? >> Here. Here's here's I'm glad you're asking this question. Here's what a credit score is. It is not or let me say what it's not. It is not an indicator of your wealth, how much wealth you have.

It's not an indicator of how well you're doing financially. It simply is a dating

score for how well you've dated in the past. Except it's not asking about girls you've dated. It's asking about banks you've dated.

So, if I gave you $5 million right now, your credit score would still be zero.

>> That's a shame. >> It has nothing to do with your wealth.

It has everything to do with, have you borrowed money from a car dealership once and you paid them back? Okay, we'll give you some points for that. Did you one time borrow from somebody else? It's just a report card for how well you've managed debt in the past.

And so far you've been a dude that just doesn't play that game. >> And they can't get the system can't get its hooks in you. And so it says, "Well, you got to have this number otherwise you're not a wealthy person." It's not true. It's just not true.

Jade, I love what you said, brother. Listen, >> y'all come home withundred what was 110,000? Yep. 110 grand.

>> So let's say after taxes, y'all are holding $60,000 next year. In the first

three months, you should pay off this entire student loan. be done with it. >> Mhm. >> Then you're all going to have $45,000.

If y'all can eat light, y'all have no bills, right? Or very very minimal bills

um other than like a cell phone bill and a small light bill or whatever. If y'all could stay in this house for two years, y'all could literally have >> I don't know 75 $85,000 in cash. That's

right. When y'all decide to move out, >> would that be fun to live in 500 feet for two with two people? No. But dude, if y'all wait, it's like we're going to wait till we can drink legally.

>> Sure. the day we can buy a beer in a restaurant, we are going to go buy a house. Y'all will be able to put 80 grand down or more, 100 grand down.

>> And let's not forget, I mean, there's always the option to rent. Let's say you do start hating each other's face and

500 ft, right? Like that could happen and you're like, man, we got to get out of here. Just know again, pump the brakes. You don't have to buy a house tomorrow. You can always go rent a two-bedroom apartment, right? And then you can still save up money like uh like John is saying. So, you have options. In

no way are these people like painted into a corner. They've got so much time, so many options, so little debt.

>> People always ask me, "What would you go tell your 18, 21year-old self?" And I often say nothing cuz that guy was an idiot. Wouldn't listen to anybody. But if I could get one message through to him, it would be slow down. >> Yeah.

>> Slow down. Relax. >> I hear that. >> And I was so amped about having a car and having a place and having slow down, man.

>> Instead of saying like in this in this guy's case, >> just put a date on the calendar. When we are 22, we're going to buy a house. Let's see how much cash we could have in the bank by 22. Let's see if we can live in a way that we have this much money by 22.

>> It will change everything in your life moving forward.

>> 100%. Oh, so true. All right. Hail Mary.

If you could go back and change one thing you did when you were 19.

>> What is it? >> 19. >> Well, he's 19. That's why I picked 19.

Like, if you could go >> I'll say 21. I left and I drove an 88 TEL easy hatchback that was the size of a small wheelbarrow through college. So, I graduated with my student loan debt and the first thing I did is went and bought the biggest truck I could find.

And so, I my first year out of college, I almost doubled or tripled my debt.

>> Holy smokes. All right. Yeah, that's a big one. >> What about you? >> Um, I straightened my hair instead of

leaving it curly. Mine wasn't as big of a deal as yours.

>> I ruined my financial future. Like, I ruined a photo. >> I got a relaxer. I ruined

[Music] >> Keep hanging out with us. There's more show to come.

[Music]

[Music] All right, welcome back to the Ramsay Show here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, continuing to take calls about your life and your money. Again, if you were wondering how can I call that that show, Jade or John, uh the number is 8888255225.

No worries if you don't get on the line, you can leave a message and we'll still schedule your call for another time. All right, Hattie is in St. Louis, Missouri.

Hattie, how can we help today?

>> Hi, Jane and John. My question is, um,

my husband and I are just getting ready to purchase our first home, and I keep

hearing about doing a line of credit, a $10,000,

$10,000 line of credit to make a bulk payment and then putting your paychecks

into that and paying all your bills out of that to build $10,000 up. Again,

>> you've got to do me a favor. Do me a huge favor. >> My mind just exploded. Please delete Instagram off your phone for 60 days.

>> Okay, >> just get off. Just get off.

>> Okay, >> for real, just get off. >> I can I can do that. It's Facebook actually, but I can do that.

>> Whichever one it is for 60 days and then I want you to to solve for one thing and one thing only. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Peace.

>> Okay. >> Peace.

Ah, I was just talking to my one of my

oldest best friends on the planet yesterday. Okay, this is an honest conversation and I was asking him a question about, hey, if I move this here and I move this over here and I pay this here and he said, hey, you're doing a

whole bunch of work for like 1.8%.

And he said, you're the guy who tells me you solve for peace, not for arbitrage.

And I was like, I'm getting off the phone now. You're right.

>> Okay. >> I was going to move it to this account because this one's got 3.4 four and since interest rates just dropped, what if I moved it over to this one? And he's like, "Bro, relax." And then he did a quick calculation. He's like, "You're doing all this for like $70. Like, go enjoy your life." And he was right.

>> Yeah. I have accounting background. So, I was like, "Well, what does this number actually crash?" And I'm like, "Okay, this works kind of, but does it really?" And I just wanted to hear somebody else say, "It's okay. Just make double payments.

You'll be just fine. >> Make triple, quadruple payments. Make stupid amounts of payments." But like Jade and I will both tell you the be like we can tell you what we do in our house. >> Yeah.

>> Just make extra payments. >> And make extra payments. >> Tada.

>> Mhm. >> How long have you been married? >> Make sure um 23 years.

>> And you y'all are buying your first house. >> Yeah. We had some health conditions and I um >> I just had a brain tumor in 2020. So that set us back a little bit. Wow. How are you now? >> We pay off. I'm great. Um, well, I have MS, so I'm disabled from that, so I

can't work, but it's only his income, so I get really creative with finances.

>> I love that. >> Okay, so you know this as well as I do that stress is a is a multiplier of MS symptoms,

right? >> Yes. >> What if you just solved for peace?

>> Yeah, it's ex Exactly. If you just took out one mortgage, made one payment, and then you spent the rest of your time focusing on things you love and have fun with. >> Well, yeah, exactly. We just want to have the house pay for by the time that we're both 60.

>> Done. >> The shortest distance is Is this still true? The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. >> I've heard there was somebody I need to go look in that.

I heard cuz my track coach always told me that, but >> I know, but sometimes I feel like there is a shortcut. In this case, let's pretend like that still holds cuz I think it does. Uh don't do all the loop-de-loop, okay?

I can tell. Like you said, you've got the background. Use your powers for simplicity. Use your powers for good.

>> Or let me let me let me say this. Can I can I take this call way too deep? Way deeper than you're asking it to.

>> Yeah, go for it. >> I spent my career working with folks who um had special needs of some shape, form, or fashion. >> Yeah. And one of the biggest metas that I got from working with those people over time was a fear that they were going to be a burden on other people >> or that I needed to contribute in some way on top of my my extra what I'm doing

for the for my friend, my family, my community, whatever. >> And so I I don't want to I don't want to

>> paint a picture, right? But I don't want you sitting at home thinking I'm a net drain on this house. But if I figure out some way to escalate our mortgage payments that then I've proven that I'm worth being here,

>> right? >> I want you to help simplify the chaos in

the house and be an agent of peace in your home. And your husband's the luckiest man who's ever walked the earth. >> I love that. Thank you.

>> Is that fair? >> Yeah, he'll tell you that, too. Well, I know he will, but you don't believe it unless you come up with a secret plan to pay off the mortgage. Like, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Just just uh take his word for it.

You're pretty amazing. You're pretty amazing. I I And Jade, I've heard this I've heard this song and dance on the internet. It's like, all right, this is what you do. >> Yeah.

>> I don't know. I'm not a dumb guy. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I I I think I can figure most stuff out.

And usually I'm like, you lost me at step 17. I'm just going to make a double payment and go on with my day. >> Yeah. I mean, let's let's run this out for the folks who might be listening for the first time, John.

So, obviously, we do like our countercultural take on mortgages is first off, if there's a world where you can just stack up some money and pay cash all day, baby, all day. Like, that's we're going to >> Yeah. People are like, "No, I'm going to take a mortgage for tax savings, that's the literally the dumbest, >> man. If you have the money or you live in, you know, >> I'm going to pay $100,000 of interest so I can get $10,000 in tax savings." >> Yeah.

Don't do it. If you can get cash and there's somewhere in, I don't know, >> Kansas where you can still find a $200,000 house and you can pay, get it, right? Then the next level is, hey, in a world where everybody's getting 30-year mortgages, we're always going to suggest a 15-year mortgage. And at the base of that is, well, you'll get a better interest rate, but the other base of it is you're going to pay it off 15 years sooner if you just pay the payment, right?

>> Everyone says, I'm going to get a 30. I'll just I'll just pay it like it's a 15. You won't. There's always going to be something that pops up instead.

And so we're like, "Hey, set it for set the dial for like you can't screw this up." So 15 years is what we're going to suggest. And even if you never make an extra mortgage payment, you're still paying it off 15 years earlier, which is giving you another 15 years that you can invest more to build wealth, right? For your legacy, for retirement, you know, to buy that restaurant you want to buy, whatever that thing is. So 15 years is what we're talking about now.

We're always saying, "Hey, this the the the payoff of the mortgage lies in baby step six." So, it's after you've paid off your debt. It's after you've saved up an emergency fund. It's you've been a you've been investing 15% of your income all the while. You've put a little bit aside for your kids college.

And now, after all that's kind of rolling, now we're saying, "Hey, you know, maybe I have a little extra change I can throw over to this mortgage. I make the payment and maybe I pay another half payment or maybe twice a year I double the payment." Whatever that rhythm looks like, it's just about you being intentional. You don't have to get intense about it, but just being intentional about saying, "I'm going to put extra money on my mortgage." And there's some really crazy arithmetic out there that if you just make one extra payment a year, like the quickness that >> seven years off or something, a 30-year mortgage or something, >> it doesn't take a whole lot um in order to really shave that 15 years down.

And John, on this show, we find that if people follow the baby steps, no matter what point you lock in, if you actually lock into the baby steps, most people have their mortgage paid off in like 10 to 12, like >> it's like Yeah. So, >> and by the way, people always ask, "Hey, is it okay if we get hyper intentional about we've had the mortgage for a while?" >> Yeah. If you got two or three years left on it and you say, "We're going to go to baby step one. We're going to try to h it and you and your and your spouse lock arms, go knock it out.

>> Go do it. get it done. >> Yeah. And then on the flip side of that, if you're like and you're like, "Hey, you know, I I all my life I had to fight and I finally just got out of debt and I'm not ready to put double payments on." That's also your prerogative and nobody's going to be mad at you.

The point is, you started in the best possible spot, which is a 15-year mortgage that was no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right, we're going to go back to the phone lines, but before we do, >> I didn't say who was hosting today. I probably should. It's you and it's me, >> John and Jade. >> John and Jade. So, now you know, just in case you were wondering, uh, John, you're kind of like on the the mental wellness tip for anybody who doesn't know. You're everywhere, so everybody knows. >> No, they don't. >> I I believe that they do. And then I am

your money expert for today. So, that's how this thing works. Two people, two chairs. All right, let's go to Nicole in Denver, Colorado. What's up, Nicole?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, my husband and I just got married and we both want to have children, but now we have to adopt or preferably get a surrogate. We have some debt, we have some savings, and my husband is about to start a business. >> So, we we really want to prioritize this because of our ages. I'm factoring us in like us needing some extended time to have kids. And both of these options are expensive. >> My question is, how do we fit a baby into the baby steps?

>> Oh, I love this question. How old are you, by the way?

>> I'm 30. He's 34.

>> Okay. Um, so if you were calling in and

you were like, "Hey, we're thinking we're going to get pregnant the oldfashioned way." I would have just said, "Yeah, to tomorrow, whenever you're ready." Right? I'm never going to tell somebody they have to, you know, wait till they're out of debt to have a baby. I'm never going to say you have to have this financial echelon accomplished before you can start a family. I would never tell you that.

Now, it is your own personal choice. I can tell you my husband and I, we were like, ah, we're going to pay off our debt, then we're going to start a family. That was a personal choice. I don't think anybody else has to make that choice.

your case it doesn't change my answer but there are some considerations because in your case yeah it's going to cost a pretty penny. How much does it cost to do surrogacy in the 2025 world?

>> There's a huge range at first 50 to 100 grand. Huh? >> Some more than that double it 90 to 200,000 agency fees surrogacy compensation medical expenses might need multiple rounds of IVS. Um, and then for

adoption, if you're working with an agency, somewhere between 30 and 60,000. So, I

mean, the pragmatic answer is adopt instead of do a surrogate. But I just I don't know how to even start saving up for this. >> Okay. Um, no matter what we go,

>> what's your income? >> Right now, I'm in school. Um, I'm a student for another six months. I have a part-time job.

I earn about $2,500 a month. My husband gets about $7,000 a month. >> Okay, good. >> And a third of that is an untaxed disability for being a veteran.

So, it's helpful. >> I I I guess and Jade pushed back on me here. Um adopted kids one of the most amazing things. By the way, that 30 to 50 of the private private adoption, there's tax rebates, there's there's local support, sometimes there's business support.

So, I would check into all of those different things.

>> Oh, wow. >> And you can >> Oh, that's good to know. >> You can do um but that was after tax breaks and and dude, who knows what tax looks cuts and breaks look like now, whether they're bigger or smaller, who knows? But it's worth to find all that out and there was some upfront costs that he got reimbured for, etc.

But that's just that's just a one buddy of mine. Um so I'm a huge fan of it.

health insurance or you didn't have health insurance, you're there's a there's not I want to say fixed cost because there's medical conditions, there's niku, there's all kind of other things that can happen, but inside of a bell curve often there's

a $5,000 deductible or a $10,000

deductible or a hey, we want to cash pay this thing and this is what it's going to cost. when you get into 90 to $200,000 that to me feels like we have to do some significant planning >> because that is that's I mean that is a that's a that's a graduate degree or that's a home in certain places, right?

That that's a huge chunk of money and I

would feel irresponsible to say, "Yep, it doesn't matter. You're starting a family. Just go let it rip." Um because that's a ton of debt to carry into on

top of your student loans. >> What I'm calling you guys is to if we're doing you know highest cost scenario if we do do surrogacy >> just help me out. How do I even start this process? It might not be that expensive but worst case >> it's a math problem right?

>> Yeah I mean it's a math problem and I'm I'm going to make it super clear. I would never recommend any kind of debt for this. I I mean, okay, >> you know, you you're going to do what you're going to do, but Jade didn't tell you to go into debt for for a family.

be because there's a risk of here,

right? There's no guarantee on any end of this spectrum. And to John's point, when you get into numbers like 200,000, 100,000, that is insult on top of

injury. >> Yeah. >> If this doesn't go the way that we want, right? And sometimes in life, things don't go the way we want.

Although, I'm praying that it does for you. So you you see what I'm saying, right? I just want you to I don't have to explain the risk to you. >> Well, and and there's the other side of it is again I've got a close friend who had a really traumatic pregnancy and there was NICU stays and ICU stays and God knows what those bills are going to end up being.

>> Yeah.

This is one where we planning out the door. We know this is going to be 100 grand or 150 grand.

>> So real steps like let's pretend, hey,

uh 50,000 is what we need. that's kind of somewhere in the middle of the adoption realm there. And so, yeah, I would treat it like in many ways I would treat it like the debt snowball, right?

You're paying minimum payments on all your normal debt, but all the extra is going to your smallest debt. In this case, it's this adoption bill. So, after

all your minimums are met, now we're using our margin to stack up $50,000 as quickly as possible. And what I would do is I would say, "Okay, I'm plug I'm starting up my every dollar budget. got everything in here and I'm seeing here's the margin that we have every single month. So, let's pretend it's $3,000. I got $3,000 of margin that's going and I'm going to keep stacking that up until I hit 50K, right? Run those numbers out.

See how long it's going to take. And if at any point you go, "Hey, that's longer than I want. What can we do to make that go faster?" Income is income is the issue. So, we say, "Okay, can we get extra jobs? Can somebody drive Uber? Can somebody pick up extra shifts?" That sort of thing. So, in that way, um, you

can kind of control it, but at the same time, you'll probably hit a point where it's like, this is as fast as we can go, and you just kind of have to ride that train until it's done.

>> I love it. All right. Thank you so much.

>> Yeah, really great call. Thanks for the call. That's, you know, John, that's

I actually got that call a couple of days ago, and it's true. You know, when Sam and I were in debt, we had almost half a million dollars of debt. We were young, uh, 23 years old, and I I I

remember thinking I'd rather wait. And plus, I wasn't sure if I want a family yet anyway. So, I was like, let's just wait. He wanted to wait. Cuz it was just eating our lunch. Literally, >> it's chaos and anxiousness all in your house. >> And so, for us, there was we had just made the decision and said, "Hey, we're going to clean up this mess and then we'll feel great about, you know, having a family." Plus, you know, and I again,

this is I'm not saying anybody else has to make this choice, but I kind of had this clear picture of this is the life I want to be able to provide. Um, and so that was kind of like a guiding light for us. I was like, I don't want to feel like I have to work. I I want to feel like I'm working cuz I want to work if I'm not going to stay home with these kids. Like, I wanted as many options, not just for us, but for the kids, too.

So, that was our choice. And yeah, I ended up having kids later in life. That was a choice we made. But I remember the years that my wife and I were trying to have kids and it wasn't happening. And then I sat down with somebody. We went to the meeting about adoption and private versus public and all those things. And I remember my my mind

shifting to I'm owed this. I deserve

this. >> Yeah. >> And it gave it it it was giving me a pass. I'm just going to go borrow on whatever this costs because I I want a family. Mhm. >> And it was this I like I remember thinking, do I want to add cuz this is when I still owed a jillion dollars.

>> Do I want to add that burden to a guy that's already pretty spun out um

because of all this money I'm carrying that I owe people, >> right? >> And I remember very much feeling though that like math doesn't apply to me here.

Mh. >> This hurts and I can I want to have a family and I want to be able to like give a kid a like all that stuff was so good and right and yet >> math doesn't care. It's still it's it's going to be you're going to have $200,000 mortgage on a on a on an adoption, right? Or on a surrogacy or whatever.

>> And so there is something about >> I would never tell somebody don't have kids if you owe money, right? Especially if you got a traditional um >> health insurance, yada yada yada. But if you're going to go make a 30, 40, $50,000, you can put that much money on the table, I want you holding that check. Um cuz otherwise you are setting yourself up for all kind of additional chaos.

>> Um in addition to having a kid and all the heartbreak and joy and all that comes with that.

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[Music] All

right, you're listening to the Ramsay Show. Hey, don't just set goals in 2026.

I want you to actually learn how to reach them for once in your life, and we're going to help you do that. The 2026 Ramsey goal planner is here, guys, and it's packed with monthly content from myself, from Rachel Cruz, from Dr.

John Deloney sitting right next to me, and it's all there to help you stay on track with your money, with your faith, with your relationships, all of it. And finally, for the first time, you can actually follow through on your goals.

It's so helpful. Now, I'm going to tell you the real deal. Every single year, we sell out of these. All right? So, >> they're already gone. >> Listen, >> there can't be that many left.

>> There can't be. So the point is >> this is not a sales pitch. This is like them sitting being like, "Hey, we have like almost like they cut off product benefit. Nobody in the building can buy them. Yeah, we can't even there's only a few left and it's just for just for just for our fans. >> The only way I'll get one is if one of you send me yours cuz I didn't even get one." But the point is they might be

already gone. So if you were thinking of getting one, go on there now and make sure you can get one. Uh they're $49.97

at ramiesolutions.com/store.

uh or if you're watching on YouTube or the podcast. You can just click the link in the description. Now, I'm going to tell you straight up. I was making a joke before. I always get a couple of these and I send them as gifts. It's on my gift list every year to send to other people and everybody loves it because it's so helpful. And so, yeah, get involved. All right. Next, we have Sue from Chicago, Illinois. Shy Town. What's up? What's going on, Sue?

>> Hi. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. I'm blessed to be able to speak to you guys and to listen to you guys every single day. >> Thank you so much. What's up?

>> I'm I'm stuck. Um I'm 54 years old and

uh married uh with a child and I just

found out that my husband no longer has

savings uh no longer has the college account for our child because he's gambling and there's more infidelity. I just found out about Um, so there's that. Uh, I just started

a job, thank goodness, because I kind of I had a feeling like something was up.

And my job, uh, will be able to pay in

the future for the success that I want

with our family, but I'm kind of at a

T-section. Um, the the >> the big question here is, are you do you want to stay in this marriage? Uh um

no. And I hate saying that. I we had an

issue before where things were questionable and um he said he wanted to

reconcile and this was years ago and I had a huge uh cancer scare. I am cancer free. It's great. It's wonderful. Um he

hid it really well since then.

um I don't feel for my for my peace and

my daughter's peace moving on in her life um that it's safe

>> to stay in this marriage. So I think answering well there's two two things.

One is you are right to be fearful about

if there's sexual infidelity you're right to be worried about the betrayal worried about your health worried about like the values of your marriage being swiped out from underneath you. Right?

>> The financial infidelity. You waking up one day and realizing y'all have no safety net.

>> That's a real harrowing fear also. And

so whether you choose to stay in this marriage and heal it or um and and and

y'all have to rebuild this thing from the ground up because it doesn't exist anymore as it was, um you still have to

take the steps to go open your checking account and deposit money in your account and begin to have some sort of financial safety because this person is very unsafe and very reckless.

>> Yeah, I I did that with my new job.

>> Good. >> Yeah. So, but that now has been paying for groceries, >> right? >> And school fees. And I don't I I pennies

pennies putting it aside could possibly, you know, eventually get a down payment for >> that. Hold on, hold on, hold on. What?

You're doing a very natural thing, but I want to slow you down. You're solving for seven steps down the road. I need you to solve for step one, which is I need to get me and my daughter into a safe place.

>> Yeah. >> Exhale. Next step. Okay.

>> I want us to make sure we have um the apartment that we've moved into or that he's moved into. Can we afford this house and we have to sell it?

>> Do I have an Do I have attorneys fees?

>> We we rent. We rent. We don't even have a host. So, am I on that lease? So, if I go get an apartment, a one-bedroom apartment for me and my daughter for the next 18 months because that's what I can afford right now. >> Am I on that lease? And is he going to quit paying and then it's going to blow up my world? Right. So, it's it's getting those very basic things. Four

walls. Do I have a place to live? Do I got food? Do I have utilities? Do I have water and heat? And do I have transportation to get to and from my job? >> Okay, >> that's what we're solving for right now.

You'll solve for what's my retirement going to be? What's a pension? What do I All of that is a problem for future you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> And and anxiety is taking future stuff

and dragging it into the present and trying to solve it in the present. Don't do that. You got enough trouble right now as the as as you experience and as the Bible says, you got enough trouble today. Let's deal with today.

>> If you are done with this marriage, I want you to push pause and call an attorney.

>> Okay? >> Okay. And they will guide you. They they'll have not thousands, but a list of questions, thoughts, ideas, and they will walk you through step by step, and you won't feel so alone. If you want to try to save this marriage and reconcile, you got to call a therapist today, a licensed therapist who will walk with you. It's just too much. Your whole world exploded, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, >> it did. It really did. And I'm I'm

more worried about my daughter. >> Yep. >> How old is your daughter?

>> She's a junior in high school.

>> Yeah. But she's now been unfortunately

it's blown up in her face and she's very aware of everything that has happened.

>> All right. Let me let me tell you the greatest gift you can give her.

>> Yeah. >> Take her out to a diner.

>> In fact, tell her we're skipping school this morning. Take her out to a diner so she'll know it's a special moment.

>> And I want you to look her in the eye and say, >> um, I'm not going to talk bad about your dad. I'm not going to run him down. You're not going to talk crap. You're not going to swear at him about him. cuz that's her dad, too. And she knows in her body half of her is him. So, if he sucks, then half of her, right? But I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm going to tell you I'm scared.

>> Yeah. >> I'm going to tell you I'm heartbroken.

And I, your mom, in working to keep you

and me safe.

>> And so, you're going to give her this gift. You're going to a give her the gift that she's not crazy. Because a lot of parents try to just say, "I don't want the kids to know. I don't want them to I want to hide my my tears. I want to hide everything." And what it does is it makes your kids feel nuts because their insides are are melting. So it's important for her to see, oh, mom's a person, too. If she's sad, I kept permission to be sad.

>> Yeah. I've never hidden anything for her. Even when I got the cancer, she painted pink polka dots on my head when uh >> Amazing. >> When it was growing back, because that's what she said what would happen when my hair grew back. >> And the next plan, the next important thing for her is to know my mom has a plan. I have a job. I have my own checking account. I'm gonna we're gonna it your college plans may have completely changed, but I'm gonna be right next to you walking with you.

>> Okay. >> Right. And it's letting her know you're not on your own, and her job isn't to take care of you. Okay.

>> Okay. 100%. >> That's a that's that will be a blessing to her for you to to say, "I'm hurting and here's my plan."

>> Thank you. >> Okay. Um I would also recommend this,

and this is like I don't feel like I want want you to give you another thing to worry about. I want you to go pull your credit report from all three credit bureaus today.

>> Yes. >> And I want you to freeze your credit.

>> Well, it is. >> Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good.

>> That as soon as I found out.

>> Excellent. Excellent. >> Very smart. >> Excellent. What's your husband doing right now?

>> Is he running, hiding? Is he saying here? How'd you find out?

Uh, I just, well, I started I got the

Ramsay become a millionaire and start I just started going, "Hey, can we go over the bills because I want to get put all this together and make a budget. I want to make a plan." >> And he started listing off these bills.

I'm like, "Well, what bill is this? What bills?" He goes, "Oh, it's a loan. It's a loan." I go, "It's a loan for what?

>> It's a loan for what?" And he goes, "Well, I have a lifestyle to keep up with." And I'm like, "I I don't understand. like like he's should be getting he's retired and has now a part-time job cuz you know uh >> and it it >> so just it just exploded. Hey um >> it just exploded. >> Yeah. Well, thank you for trusting us with the call. Stay on the line. We're going to hook you up with Every Dollar.

Um it's the best budgeting app in the world. We're also going to hook you up with Financial Peace University so you and your daughter, if y'all want, y'all can watch these lessons together. And um

I want you to begin using this app for you. Make a budget for you so you know where every dollar is going. cuz right now every dollar is precious. And um if it's time to call an attorney, go call one. If it's time to call a therapist, go call one.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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[Music]

All right, our question of the day is sponsored by Y Refi. If other lenders won't help with defaulted private student loans, then Yi might be right for you. They offer fixed rate solutions that fit real life. Find out more at yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yfy.com/ramsey.

Remember, it's not available in all states. >> All right, this question is a good one.

I'm going have to process this out loud.

>> All right, read it. >> And it's funny because I've been wrestling with something about this. >> Oh, really? Okay, I'm excited then.

>> Today's question comes from Gabriel from California. Gabriel writes, "I need advice on whether to take on commission

work for a very popular video game. I would get paid to make 3D digital models for game servers who have the aesthetic that I'm trained in. I developed these skills over the past two years. However, here's my dilemma. I stopped playing video games several months ago due to a conviction to stop playing them and just grow up. >> I've been benefiting from the time away from them to connect with friends, read my Bible, and attend church activities.

Mhm. >> I've actually lost a desire to play video games, but I could make a ton of money with this side hustle. Should I take the opportunity or walk away because I'm afraid I'll be pulled back into that world?

>> So, here's here's where this question is with me. Um, I watch social media

like melting us culturally.

>> Mhm. And yet >> every day I post on it twice a day, >> right? >> You're in my brain right now. >> I I live in it. And so I've had this weird tension with it. And the piece I've come to is if it's a cesspool, if if if it's

constantly sending people negative ne negativity things way to divide people up and whatever, I will I can tell myself I'm going to be someone who puts good out into that world. >> Yeah. And so that's that's where I've landed right now. But I do wrestle with it, right? Um if if they came in and said, "Hey, social media is over. It doesn't exist anymore. That part of our business is over. We're going have to do something else." I would exhale.

>> It would cost me a lot. Right. >> Understood. Yeah. >> But it I would exhale.

>> And so there's a tension there. So this is a little bit different because he's not making his he's not able to put

positivity out into a negative environment. He's going to literally be participating in it, right?

So yes, pardon me. I I don't know. What do you think? What do you think? >> Um I think we can look at this from two arguments. Uh he's I don't think he's

created like a good versus bad argument.

Like video games are bad, therefore I'm not playing them anymore. >> He's like, I found relief being out of that world. >> Yeah. I think he found it more of there's better things I could be doing with my time. This is kind of a drain on me, so I'm not going to do it. Um, so

for him I think it was like productive versus not productive, not necessarily good versus bad. Like if he had said, "Hey, >> I think they're evil, so quit." >> Right? Like I got out of video games cuz the chat's crazy and it's not good for kids and people it's dangerous and like sex trait all these things. Like if he had said that argument, I would have been like, "Dude, it's a moral thing for you. You have to walk away." Um, but since it's more of a personal productivity thing, I would say

any I would I will hold it more loosely, but at the end of the day, I would still say anything that feels like a violation of personal integrity for you, you do have to walk away from. However, I would say this doesn't really feel like a personal integrity thing. It feels more like you're getting older and you're

like, I can't spend time on video games, so I'm not going to. and he's got his lived experience where he spent too much time for too many years on them. But also, and I've I've I've been a I mean,

I've run my mouth about video games for a long time, but I've got buddies who play with their kids. I got buddies who play with kids in college and it keeps them connected and they have fun and they talk trash and those little like it's so it's fun for them, but then they set it down and they go back to their to their regular lives, right?

>> And so, yeah, it comes down to a personal conviction at the end of the day. >> Yeah. Um, it almost feels like, I don't know if this is a good analogy either, somebody who has struggled with alcohol gets an amazing opportunity to make a bunch of money to being a bartender >> and like >> that's a bad idea. >> It It could be, right? But if someone says, "Dude, I don't have any I for six

months it could pay off everything." >> Probably say, "I wouldn't go back in the bar." >> Well, no, because he struggled with it. It was an addiction. I don't think that's a good analogy because one, but he's saying, "I don't want to be pulled back into that world." Uhhuh. I think

that I don't know much about making video games. So, I think it has more to do I

think and correct me if I'm wrong cuz I'm not a gamer. >> I think it has more to do with him than the outsider >> because I don't know if if you're making um uh if you're making models for this, if you actually have to like be in the game and kind of like play it >> play the game and talk about the game.

>> Yeah. So if he has to be in that world in order to create for it, I think that's where more where his struggle is versus I don't want other people playing these games. I don't want other people >> because it's a moral conviction. Yeah. So Gabri, I I would tell Gabriel if sitting here and um thanks to everybody letting us think that out loud. >> Yeah. Right. >> Um I would tell Gabriel,

>> no amount of money is worth your personal peace and your personal integrity. Yep. And so if this is a matter of I feel like this is an integrity issue for me, but I could make some good money in the short term, I would say walk away. >> Yeah, there's other ways you can make money.

>> And the other side of it is if you have just found peace like, man, I love doing other things with my time and good on anyone who wants to play games. It's not for me anymore. And you can go back into that world and make some quick money over six months. Knock your lights out, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you on that. It's uh Yeah, I was just reading back over the question. I'm with you.

If you feel like it's it's pulling you back, don't do it.

And there's always going to be uh

temptations. >> Well, and we get this call from folks who listen to the Ramsay Show. They they buy into the message. They live it their own life, but they sell >> whole life insurance policy or they work at a at a at one of the big the giant banks who take advantage of people. So, >> um and they are faced with this moral dilemma. But I again I think that's more of like the good versus bad argument because we're saying um hey debt it it

is truly like out to get you like it truly is out there to try to scam you, try to try to trap you all those things.

This didn't feel like he didn't mention anything. Now don't get me wrong, I have my own views of video games. I don't want to project that onto him. But if you're a person who if if Gabriel if you're listening to this if you do feel like hey I just think video games

inherently they're trying to track people the the algorithm is there to keep you stuck keep you locked in. I just don't agree with that. Like if you do have a moral stake in it I 100% wouldn't do it because then you're compromising your own >> personal integrity. Man that's a good question. It is a good question and I I I challenge everybody in their life if

your day job at some level conflicts with what you know to be true or what you feel is to be right or true.

>> Um >> it's easy to bomb the job to

>> but there's something about taking personal ownership and saying I can't be a part of this anymore >> or I'm gonna the the building's not on fire. money, being asked to steal money, but I'm going to start looking for a way to transition out of this job into something else. >> Um, I'm going to turn down this opportunity. >> Um, and both of us have gotten opportunities to go speak at a place and like, you know, I'm going to sit this one out.

Like, >> everyone has to make those kind of choices, right? >> Um, but the fact, Gabriel, that you're even asking this question is pretty noble. Good for you. I think so, too.

>> Cuz I think it's so easy to just run for the money, whatever. >> Know what you're Yes. You have to have you have to have your personal moral compass.

different from other people. It's kind of like going back to the drinking thing that you said. Um, some people go to a party, they're like, "Hey, alcohol is just not for me. I don't like who I am when I have a drink." Right? And then the other person could sit right next to you and there's no moral dilemma.

They're not going to act a fool. They're just going to have one or two drinks, go about their business, and it's fine. Right? So, different things affect different people.

>> If I drink, I don't feel good the next day. That's fine. Or I think this is wrong. I think nobody should be doing this. Right? But whatever you bring to it, live it out everywhere.

>> Live it out everywhere. And that's that's the good word.

>> Oh, good. I I liked that one. That was a good one. All right. Since we just took a question that was >> verbal mean me reading >> verbal. Somebody write wrote it in.

>> Let's do another one from social.

>> All the questions are verbal. >> I know. I know that was a hard that was not the right way to say it. Okay. Um let's do this one. This is Sue from Tik Tok. She says, "Why does cancelling a rarelyus card affect someone's credit

rating?

Okay. So, we tell John, we tell people, John, uh, it's time for you to not only

pay off your debt, you need to cancel it. You need to close the account and be done with it, not just pay it off. And so, she's saying, yeah, if you cancel this card, it your your credit score initially is going to go down. That's true.

And that's okay. It's one of the factors that they use to measure your credit score, right? It's how many lines of credit do you have open? Uh, how many how long have you had it open?

What percentage of it are you using? All of that affects your credit score.

But in the long run, if you just close them all and pay them all off, your score is going to roll to zero and you're going to be a person who has a zero credit score. And that's ultimately what we want. Stick around. There's more of the Ramsey Show coming up.

[Music]

[Music]

Hey, welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Uh we're here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio taking calls about your life and your money like we always do at this time. We got Tom in Minneapolis, Minnesota. What's going on, Tom?

>> Hi, John and Jade. Thanks for taking my call. I got a question around term life insurance. Um I'm 65 and um over the

years when we had we have four children.

Over the years, we I would buy life or life insurance, but term life insurance, and then it would, you know, at one time I probably had a million dollars. I'm down to down to one last policy of $250,000.

>> Okay. It has seven years left and the and the annual payment's only $7 I think

$11 a year.

>> Okay. >> And just questioning whether or not I should keep it because I really don't need it and it's just not, you know, it's just my wife and I today. So,

>> I mean, yeah, you're right. The point is that we get to the point where we can kind of self-insure where that nest egg is big enough to where if something happened to you, your wife would be okay. And it sounds like you have that.

>> Yeah. I mean, and yeah, no debt and million, you know, multiple millions of dollars put away. Probably seven or eight million. >> Oh, you're saying that the policy runs out in seven years.

>> It does. In 32, it's done it, but it's only $7 a year. That gets $250,000. Now,

$250,000 is not going to change our life. >> No. >> No. But neither is neither is 70 bucks a month either or 70 bucks a year.

>> Right. Right. >> There's no right or wrong answer on this. If you want to keep it, you can keep it. Cuz like you said, the $711 a year is not changing your life. The $250,000 is not saving your life. I would ask your wife, how does she feel about it? Hey, do you want this extra $250,000 coverage? Does it give you any extra level of peace for me? I could maybe let it go and just have that conversation. I'm If it were me, I'd

probably be like, just keep it around. Let it play out. Um >> but like I said, there's no right or wrong. Yeah, cheap. But yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So, that's it. I just um and I know she'd say, you know, she's always had her trust in my my management obviously pay off and she can't believe we're the place that we're in today. So, she just say, "Hey, I don't really care." >> Hey, well, dude, let me be the first to tell you today.

Well done, brother. That's awesome. >> Really good. >> Like the thought that you could pass away tomorrow and your wife's going to be okay.

That to me is the greatest I don't know. Just as a as a husband, that's the greatest feeling I could have that if I if I cashed out tomorrow, my wife and my kids would be okay. That gives me a lot of peace. Call Hey, do me a favor.

Call our friends at Xander. Um, what I know about those dudes is they will tell you the truth and they won't take money from you that they won't they won't try to bill you for money. They'll be honest with you. And they'd be a great person to run this policy by and just cash just run through the numbers for you.

and there it whether it would save you if you just quit paying on it if you can't like they're going to answer all those specific insurance questions so call them. Um they've they've the ones who did my life insurance policy. >> Me too. Me too.

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about life insurance for new new listeners who are like what the heck are they talking about? So here we always we're always going to suggest term life insurance. That's what I carry.

That's what John carries. And you can get it on a you know a 15-year level term, a 20-year level term. And basically the term is just what it says. you are covered during that term of years.

Um, and the level term means the price is not changing. But the point of life insurance is for anybody who depends on your income. So, for instance, uh, I work at my in my home and my husband works, but if I were to pass away, that's a a big chunk of income that's gone. And so, my family has a dependency on that, right?

And same thing with Sam. If Sam were to pass away, we have a dependency on his income. So, we suggest you get 10 to 12 times your income, which a lot of people think, "Oh my gosh, that's a lot of money." Like, that could be in the millions. That's a lot of money.

And it is, but it's about survivorship. It's about the people who are, like I said, dependent on your income long term.

They need to be able to continue living until their life situation changes. Or maybe you're a stay-at-home mom, right?

And you've been staying at home. If you're the spouse in that situation, you want to make sure this mom can continue to stay home. So, you need a nice nest egg in there. That's what it's there for.

Um, I won't get into the whole whole life thing. I feel like that's a different call, a different time for a different day. But, I do want to say term life insurance is a way that you love your family. Well, now I know I hear it now, John.

People are like, "Oh, I have insurance through my job." >> No, you get 10,000 bucks, dude. You have barely enough to cover the cost of a coffin these days. That's it, if that anymore. >> That's right.

That's that could barely cover your funeral and that's it. So, you need more. And trust me, it's not expensive. Like this guy said, he's paying $711 a year.

That's nothing.

>> Yeah. So, get it done. It's so easy.

They'll come to your house and do the medical, you know, they'll draw your blood at your house. It's easy. And then they'll set your term and you'll be set.

So, that's how this works. >> If you're wondering this too, um, my wife has a part-time job. Um,

>> but the vast majority of the income is mine. >> I have a policy on her. It's not near as big as mine. >> Three to four times. >> But if she was to pass away tomorrow,

>> if you've listened to the show for five minutes, you know that my life would be in shambles. Yes. Right. I would have to hire some support and help. That's right. There'd be plane tickets. There would be um parents coming and going.

There would be I need help with I my whole life would fall apart. So, I'd need to hire folks to come back fill that and that money would add up and add up, especially when I'm in a season of grief and my income would drop because I'm on commission, right? So all that say is I got a policy on her.

>> That's such a good point. Yeah. When you have a stay-at-home spouse or a spouse that maybe works part-time or whatever the case, there's still a huge monetary value on what it takes to if you're the the home CEO, right? So you're doing all the shopping and you're planning all the meals and you're taking the kids to school and you're picking the kids up.

Well, who would who would do that if that person left? Do you have to hire a nanny? Would you have to have a babysitter there at the house, you know, six hours a day? That is all cost.

So, please, please, please. Term life insurance is what we're looking for. And what we were talking about earlier with Tom is the idea is that you don't have to pay a premium forever. >> So, he's got millions of dollars.

>> That's right. >> He's now insured. >> He's insured. >> His wife's insured.

>> And that means that whatever pops up, he's got the money that he can carry that risk. Now, the point of insurance is to to transfer risk when we can't afford it, right? And so, when you're walking through the baby steps, you can't you can't carry that risk. So, let the insurance company carry it.

But the hope is that you get to a point, you keep walking through the baby steps where you've got a couple of million dollars stacked up or whatever your nest egg is stacked up to where when you hit a certain point, hey, if somebody passes away, there's enough money on that nest egg that they can draw from, they can cut or you know, if something happens, my medical expenses will be covered as well. like all that stuff is there. So that's how this works. It's just a really good thing to think about from time to time.

We get calls all the time, John, of and it's sad when someone passes away, there was no life insurance, no will, and everything is just in a tail spin.

she looks and I remember one person in particular said, "I have to go to work on Monday. We don't have anything." >> And it was the most harrowing.

It's like, "What do you mean? like they don't have any money, we don't have any insurance, we have nothing. >> You got to figure out >> and I got to figure I got to go I have to get a job now on Monday. We don't have no we have no I mean it was just such a harrowing conversation.

Um and then the other the other I remember one other person in particular said I don't I don't know what to do. I don't know where anything is.

I don't know if we have life insurance policy. It was just a zoo. And I remember being like man like me and my wife that's a big deal for us is where's the forms? Where's the passwords?

Where's everything? >> Um cuz it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. >> Yes. >> And I want I want that to be the last thing she worries about is what do we have and where? H term life insurance, a will, making sure your spouse knows where all the documents are.

[Music]

[Music]

You know, last last segment we were just talking about the importance of term life insurance. We were saying wills, making sure your family knows where all the important documents are. And we actually have an online wills quiz

because you might have been listening to that saying, "Hey, Jade, I don't know.

Do I I'm 18. Do I need a will? Or I'm 21 and single. Do I need a will? or you know, I've been married 50 years, my wife already knows what we're doing. Do I need a will? You need to take the wills quiz is what I'm telling you. Okay, so here are the top questions people have about online wills. Let's talk about it. Number one, the ask, "How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will?" Okay, so that's a great question.

And so the answer there is if your estate is worth less than 1 million then getting a will online is probably a really great option for you. So if you're worth less than a million, yeah, probably online will is good. Next one is number two, Jade, what do I need to start my will online? All right, making a will online or not involves a couple of big decisions.

Number one, you need to know like who's going to get my stuff.

helps a lot of things. I'm just saying. >> I remember I gave my wife like this big long like here's how I want my funeral to go. And she was like, "Hey, I'm not doing chores for you. Your your funeral

will be as I planned it." And I'm like, "But I wrote it down and it's in the will." And she's like, "I don't just sue me. Come get me then cuz I don't care." >> But you do you need to sit down and you you need to decide these things. And it's okay if it takes more than one evening or if you get kind of like mentally exhausted and have to come back to it later. just as long as you come back to it later. Now, number three, is an online will legally valid? Great

question. Yes, an online will is legally valid, but not just any online will you

find on the internet is going to legally validate your state. Okay, you want to make sure your online will needs to be made uh to match the laws of your state, the state that you live in. Okay, so that's the important part. Uh, number four, why would I want an online will

versus a traditional one made with a lawyer? Very good question. The truth is, yeah, they're just less expensive and they're more convenient and they take less time to set up. So, you could just pop online, do your thug fizzle, and move on versus trying to set up something with an attorney. Uh, so if you have more questions, you can go to ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. All right, enough of that business. Let's go to Sarah who's in Georgia. Sarah, how can we help today?

>> Hey there, thanks for taking my call.

Um, I I have a question about whether or

not I should take out a home loan or a

heliloc. Um, I bought my grandmother's

house two and a half years ago, and when I bought it, I knew it would need to be renovated, um, like down to the studs.

Um, so that's probably going to cost about $250,000.

>> Gosh. >> Um, yeah, it's going to be expensive.

Um, I'm a in a pretty good financial situation and I've saved up um $75,000

toward that. And so, >> and I've got savings, I've got an emergency fund, um, I've got retirement, all of that squared away. Um, but

do I take out HELOC or a loan, go ahead and reno the house, and then after it's

done, it will be income producing because I can rent out the basement and bring in about $2,000 a month, or do I

wait and continue to save for the next probably four or five years until I have

enough to just pay cash for all the renovations? Mhm. See, here's what I think about in these situations, and I'm going to just play this back to you, and John, cut in.

So, when I hear somebody run out the two sides of like what I could do on the one side, when they're talking about the debt, they're like, I could just get a heliloc. I could get it all done. I could have this income producing property. I could, you know, and it's all these positive positive things.

But then when they talk about the cashway, it's like, well, I could wait five years and then I would just But they're not listing all the pros on that side.

>> there are pros and yeah, it could take longer, but the truth is we didn't mention there would be no risk on your home, which was your grandmother's home, which is clearly a source of great pride and joy for you because you bought it.

So we would eliminate the risk from that. We would allow you to sleep better at night. We would ensure that an asset that's been in your family remains in your family. Like there's a lot of pros on there that you didn't list that are

benefits to doing this thing in cash.

>> How do you where'd you come up with the 200 number?

Um, so I've gotten some estimates from contractor, a general contractor and everything that needs to be done and it is more expensive because essentially

the basement would it will be two full kitchens, one for my living space, one for other living space. >> Yeah, that and that was that was actually my question. Is there a is

there a path where you phase this in

where you completely gut and renovate your kitchen with your $75,000 and you have an amazing beautiful living space and then you exhale for a year or two and then you make a choice down the road. Do I want to go through and completely gut and do this? Because what here here's what I promise will happen.

If you have a heliloc and what you're going to do is you're going to say I want a $200,000 helock against my

against my home. They're going to say, "Well, there's always an overage or whatever. I'm just going to give you 275 and whatever you don't use, that's fine.

I promise it will balloon up because they'll be like, "Well, what about these fixtures? We could get these are nice and it just gets out of control on if you have 75 grand." You see, this is all I have. Um, it just changes how you spend your money. But is there a way you can phase it in?

>> Yeah. Why does it have to be an income property? Why can't it just be a the >> income property later when I have the money to make it an income property? Can you get this awesome kitchen? I'm trying to think of a new of a third way or a fourth way or a fifth way other than I've got to borrow a couple hundred,000

against an old property, which by the way, I think that's probably when they get in the walls, they're going to find all kind of wild stuff.

>> Um, and they get into the basement, they're going to find all kind of structural like that's just what happens on those old homes. Or I can't do anything for five years. I just got to sit here. Is there a middle ground there?

Well, so it needs um new electrical um

and some plumbing updates. And so the thought was in in the long run it would

save money by just doing all that at once versus doing um going in and doing plumbing in one area or fixing electrical in one area or just doing the upstairs and fixing that and then doing the downstairs. >> How much would it actually

uh I I don't know the exact number. Um >> I would want to get that that because I think that's one of those things that we just think, hey, if we just do this all at once, it'll be cheaper.

>> Um >> well, that's a luxury. Let's be honest, that's a luxury for when you have money.

So, let's break this down to a smaller uh we're talking about a big house there. Let's break it down to a smaller denominator that we can talk about it and it'll make more sense. If you had a flat tire and you didn't have any money

and you're like, "Oh man, I have a flat tire. I'm going to go buy a tire. And they said, "Well, you should get all four. You'll get a better deal." >> You'd say, "Well, I can't afford all four.

>> I've got enough for one tire. >> I'm just going to get the new tire that I need." >> And suddenly it makes a lot of sense cuz it's like, why would they why would I buy four tires I can't afford? I don't even really need the four the third, you know, the other three. I just need the one.

And so when we put it like that, you can It's the same thing with this house. You can't afford It doesn't matter if it's a better deal to do it all at once. You can't afford it. And Sarah, here's the other side.

>> man. >> Their in-laws get sick like or co shuts

everything like this show wouldn't exist if everybody's plans always worked. And so we have the misfortune and the blessing of our whole job consists of

people had this great plan. It's just going to be 36 months. It's just going to be four years and it something blows up. And that's why man, if you don't owe anybody any money and you put 75 grand on the table, you get a brand new kitchen.

They do the wiring and they do just the plumbing in that area and then something happens, you can take two years off and you don't have this looming, hey, they're going to take our house from us because we put it on the block.

take risk off the table. >> And I want to do $250,000 of work on my

house. I do too. >> And I still got to wait and and do it little by little. Okay. So

[Music]

all right, welcome back to the show.

We've got Brian who's in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Brian.

>> Hey, Jade. Hey, um John, thanks for for

taking my call. >> Yeah, you bet. >> So, I'm in my late 20s. Um I'm on baby steps four and six. Um and I have around

$40,000 that I want to spend on a car

and I'm wondering if it makes financial difference whether I choose a new or used car for the same amount.

>> Interesting. Yeah. Um >> how much you make?

>> Around 200,000. Oh, so you got you got some cash. What do you do for a living, dude? >> I'm actually, funny enough, I'm in sales, financial advice, things like that. >> Well played, man. Excellent.

>> So, you how old are you?

>> 28. >> 28. And you've got a great income.

Killing it. What's your I mean, what do you have in retirement? What's your nest egg?

>> Uh, so total nest egg is around 830,000.

>> Okay. >> 310,000 is in retirement. Um, I've got

357 in taxable assets.

>> Okay. >> 30,000 cash, 13,000 HSA, and 120,000 on

the home that I purchased last year.

>> Okay. So, you're a millionaire.

>> No, it's 830 total.

>> Oh, okay. I thought you were saying 8:30 was in your retirement.

>> So, you're saying you're saying the total amount the total amount is 830.

Okay. >> Correct. Uh, so I do think that in this

case if you want to spend the 40,000 it's no big deal. I would spend it on a used vehicle though. >> I would tell me tell me why you don't want to.

>> I don't know. The 26 Rav 4 is looking pretty nice. >> Okay. So if I told you you could get a 25 RAV 4 and somebody turned the key in it and backed it off the lot and drove it right back on and burned 10 grand of that because that because that that's the difference. the moment you buy sign your name on a brand new car, you drive it off the lot, it's worth it's worth last year's car.

>> And that's why we tell folks wait and a million dollar net worth is is is arbitrary. Like Dave just picked that number, but it's it's basically can you walk into your house and set $10,000 on fire in the living room and that's going to be and you're okay with that?

>> You've got a million bucks. It's such a time it would be dumb and you you know nobody would want you to do that but it wouldn't change your life.

>> And so that's that's the difference.

>> Dude, I love Rav 4s. My wife drives a Highlander. I I love them. In fact, she asked me the other day if I could trade that in for a high for a RAV 4, an older one, right? I totally love that car.

It's just what's what is driving off the

lot and immediately losing that equity worth to you?

>> Got it. And I guess would it make sense if I were to wait another year or two and buy used if I really want sorry buy new if I was able to bring it up to a million? >> I did that exact thing recently.

>> Like literally that exact thing. >> Yeah. The the million is a to John's point it's a rule of thumb. It's something that we kind of feel like hey this is the point where to John's point you don't care about. You can take the loss. You can take the hit. You're very very close. I mean >> bro you're you're you're so far ahead of all of humanity. You're doing great man.

Yeah, >> you're doing great. >> If I'm going to advise you to do a used

car if you did a new one, lightning wouldn't strike you. Worst things could happen in your life, but we're just telling you the rule of thumb that we think is kind of that safe point where you can really feel good about it. Like you can feel good about driving off the lot brand new and it's like, hey, I I if

you're a rule follower, it's like I followed the rules and I did this. Do you know what I'm saying? Like it's that kind of thing. Do I think it would break you? No, it wouldn't break you at all at all. You wouldn't feel it at you wouldn't feel it. So, take that very contrasting advice.

>> But, but but but you you you put it out there. So, let me ask you what what is waiting six months like what's what's burning a hole in your pocket right now? >> Right.

>> Um my car is getting to the point I drive a used car. It's the first car I had. It's at the point where it's a lot more maintenance. A lot more money is going into it. So, I think it's ready to >> to buy something newer. >> Yeah. I mean, like like I say, like dude, you're doing so well. Um, and if

you think it's going to like the the intellectual exercise or the the discipline of I'm going to put on the calendar four months. I'm just going to I'm going to make myself wait four months. >> Um, and then I'm going to go buy this car. Then that if you think you need that and that'd be good for you long term because you you work in sales, right?

So some years are going to be up, some years aren't. That's the that's the lifestyle. So I'm having a I'm in a good season right now. I'm in a season of blessing.

That's awesome. I'm gonna practice just holding off just because I can, right? That's a good >> It's like somebody sitting a cold plunge.

>> And um I think that'd be an awesome exercise. >> But also if you went out today, you're not again you're not going to be destitute tomorrow. You're going to be fine. But you are going to have just said, "Hey, like Toyota dealership, I want to give y'all 10 grand of my hard-earned money." >> Um really for no reason other than I wanted this right this second.

>> Cuz here's the truth. The truth is, if you said, "Hey, Jade, there's a used car I want to buy that's $50,000." I would have said, "Yeah, go do it >> because you somebody else has already burned the depreciation for you." >> But my point is, the amount is not any

risk to you. It's it it fits your income. It fits your net worth. And so,

that's kind of the way I'm reverse engineering it in my mind. Um, but, you

know, if you want to hit that rule of thumb, that's also great.

>> Here's another game to play. What's your mortgage every month?

Uh like a $3,000.

>> I didn't 3,000 >> perhaps. >> Okay. So, just ask yourself, is this h

is this car today worth three months of house payments?

>> Yeah.

>> And question. >> If that's a if that's a good math, if that's a good trade for you, then cool.

>> Yeah. Cars are cars are an interesting thing because if you're a car person, you're like, I'm in on it all day. But then if you're like me who's not much of a car person, the question that John just asked, I'd be like, "No, it's not worth three months more." You know, I'm that person cuz I like nice things, but for whatever reason, cars just don't they just don't do it for me as like I'm

willing to spend this money today. Like I just >> And and again, I I want to run back um what what Jay just said. Our rule of thumb here is once you're out of debt, don't don't own anything of vehicles with wheels on it, toys that are worth more than half of your annual take-home income. >> You make 200 grand.

So technically following that line, if you came and said, "I want to buy $99,000." We'd say, "Knock your lights off." If you got cash for it, >> it's not about the dollar amount you're spending. The 40 grand is is nothing for you.

for the for the one year having it now,

do you want to burn 10,000 bucks or

7,000? I don't know what how much RA depreciates in one year. I have no idea.

>> But do you want to burn that now? Um, or

do you want to go buy a 2025 or if the model changed and everything upgraded or whatever, do you want to wait in a couple more months till December and they're going to start liquidating those cars at a at a lower price? um then you can pick one up there, which is what I did last year with with a truck. So you do whatever you want, man. And you're well within the rule of thumb, you're there.

>> Yeah. This is not going to this is not a >> but it's a it's a principle as much as a you're going to be in trouble of any kind. >> Yeah. Cuz that that's the crazy part of this rule of thumb.

But I mean, it's not going to hurt you. It'd be stupid, but do it, right? Um, but it it goes back to that that principle of can you just can you just eat that? >> Yeah, man. Interesting conversation. I like it. I like it. I like it. All right. Uh, I like these social questions that we have on the desk. So, uh, if you follow us on social media, uh, you can

submit questions. I guess even if you don't follow us, you can submit questions. That's the whole point. Uh, but if you don't want to call into the show and this is a way that you want to ask, you can do that.

>> Yeah. Um, my answer would be no.

Obviously, you've got your emergency fund, right? 3 to six months. that is for the stuff that pops up that you didn't see was coming. And then beyond that, I would treat it as a sinking fund. Anything that you feel like you couldn't cash flow in a month's time.

Like some people their income is enough that if they blew their tire out, they could cash flow it. Other people, if they blow their tire out, that's setting them back. So yeah, you probably need to have some sort of a car maintenance syncing fund that you're putting $50 a month in or 25, whatever suits your budget that you're putting aside every, you know, month for that. Uh what else does he ask for? home repairs. Yeah.

Again, if you know your roof is 25 years

old >> and you're going to need one in 2 years, yeah, start putting aside for it. So, yeah, that's a really good question. It's not a certain amount. There's not an amount that we say this is the amount. It's based on your situation in your budget. And by the way, if you don't have an every dollar budget, I'm going to suggest you get one. It's the best budget out there. It's the one that I use. It's the one that John uses. And it'll help you create those syncing funds that you need.

All [Music]

[Music]

right. today's scripture and quote of the day. 1 Thessalonians 5:11 5:11.

Therefore, encourage one another and build each other up. Just as in fact you

are doing. All right. Vince Lombardi said, "Confidence is contagious. So is lack of confidence." That's so good.

>> Gosh, that's what everybody needs right now. >> Confidence >> is a unified We got this.

>> I like that. >> Yeah, that'd be that'd be that'd be that'd be cool. It makes me think of gosh, I always go to Remember the Titans and you've never seen it, which is >> me, >> right? >> I've seen it a thousand times.

>> Okay, but the last time I feel like I quoted it, you didn't know what I was talking about. >> What'd you quote? >> Uh uh it was about mounting up on wings

like eagles. >> That was the quote of the day. Yeah. And I said, "Like eagles, y'all." Like Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I totally forgot it. >> All right. And then this out of context. I've seen it a thousand times. >> I was thinking about it again. I was like, >> "Trong side, dude. This one I was thinking attitude reflects leadership, captain. Right. Anyway, moving on.

>> And the math teacher brings in like that that film strip. He's like, I've been breaking down the other tendencies. I was like, bro, you're like running algorithms with a protractor.

>> So good. It's a classic classic movie. A film really. You should really watch it.

All right. Kira is in Austin, Texas.

Hey, Kira. How can we help today?

>> Hi, Jade. Hi, John. Um, I had a question. and my um employer allows us

to convert our 401k

to Roth and I was wondering if that is a

good idea to start doing.

>> Yes. >> Yes. >> If you got the cash, do it.

>> Okay. I I couldn't I can't do it all at once because I have quite a large 401k and the company only matches if you contribute to the 401k, not the Roth. So

over time, would that that be a good investment to do? >> I think so. They only match it if it's the traditional 401k. They don't match it if you put it into the 401k.

>> Huh. >> Correct. So it's still contributing to the 401k, >> but I can convert it to the Roth, which is weird. But then you can't touch that for five years. So, I'm going to go with the traditional first because the the equation is match beats traditional

beats Roth. Match beats Roth beats traditional. There we go. So, free money, nothing's going to beat out free money. And so, we want the free money first. >> And then we love Roth over traditional, right? Because when you're older and down the line, you don't want to have to pay taxes on that money. You don't want your family have to pay taxes on that money. So, if you can convert it, that's also a great thing. Um, and yeah, I I I

would do that. Um, >> okay. And I I could only do a little bit overtime because I don't want to get out of my tax bracket when I um like cuz and

you can correct me if I'm wrong, but it counts as income, right, when you convert it and then you have to pay like

I don't want to move out of the tax bracket. So, if I make a large amount, I don't want to like >> You're over my skis on that one. You'll have to ask a tax pro on that one.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> What baby supper you on?

>> Uh I'm on four, I think. Whatever

Whatever contribute uh uh paying down

the house. >> Okay. >> Four or five. >> So, you might want to get with the tax pro, but you should be paying you're paying money because you're you're basic essentially when you do a Roth, you've already paid the taxes on it.

>> Yeah. No, I meant when I convert um when

I convert it. So, let's say I convert $50,000. Don't I have to pay my tax

bracket percentage for that $50,000 that

I convert because I have >> Yes. But that that's the conversion. That's what you're you're you're paying taxes on that 50 grand as though it was income now and you're not going to pay taxes on it when it becomes 500 grand 30 years from now. >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, that's what I'm saying is like I have $330,000

in the 401k that I could convert, but I don't want to convert all of that at once because I don't have the money to pay. Yeah. Okay. >> Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Technically, this is this is a baby step seven action what you're doing here.

>> Um, >> so I should pay off my house before I do that. >> Technically, yes. because there it's it's almost like if you were rolling this money over to a traditional Roth or

I'm sorry to a Roth IRA. It's almost like if you were doing that and we would save that for baby step seven because of the tax implication. Um you're in baby step four. So there's other more important things to do than to do that.

Now I wish I'm thinking through this because this is the first time I've had this call because I love a Roth but at the first at the same time you're getting this match over. So, I'd almost pretend like the other one wasn't there until baby step seven.

>> Okay. So, don't convert it.

>> Yeah. Because I don't want >> pay off my house. >> Yeah. I don't want that tax burden on you until until after baby step six.

Yep. That's my final answer.

>> Is that your final answer, John?

>> I think my final answer would be start converting that other the backlog, if you will. Like maybe start now like this year's income. Convert it. That's what I was thinking is doing like 50,000 a year. >> And what what's your take home salary every year? >> What do you make? >> Uh for me and my husband both or just me? >> Just you at your company that you would roll to a to you' do it back to >> 200,000 >> 200. Okay. So you make a chunk of money.

Okay. >> I don't mind that. I don't mind what John said and keeping the past in the

past, but from this from this point forward, whatever your current amount is that you're starting with it as a traditional, then at the end of the year or whatever, however you want to do it, rolling that over. I'm not mad at that.

>> And here's my my my algorithm on that in my head is is not a dollar for dollar.

I'm sure somebody could whip out a calculator and make a math case one way or the other. >> Well, she would have been doing that anyway, like on the taxes.

>> Exactly. But but I'm saying like in in doing it out of order.

>> Um is there's a risk too. Let's say the

stock market has a significant troubles down the road, right? So there's a risk.

Anytime you're in the stock market, there's always you're always playing a risk game. The one thing that's not going to change is that mortgage is still coming every month.

>> Yeah. >> And so I want to I want to knock out the

thing that's against me all the time.

like I want to take the risk off the table and that's that's just a personal thing. And so I would I would probably roll the the your this year's income into the Roth to do it back to a Roth at the end of the year. Um but I would yeah I I'm with Jade. I would save that catch up if you will until I've taken all my risk off the table. But that's just me.

And that may be a terrible mathematical calculation. I can't do the math in my head. But that's that's for me just wanting to solve for peace in my house.

Yeah, but the only reason I was thinking about converting it since it grows taxfree once you pay taxes on it then anything it grows from it and I still have >> Well, that's why I said to work >> that's why I said your current amount like whatever you're putting in there for this year and the years going forward, I'm fine with you getting the match and then rolling it over and then because that that was a tax burden you were going to take anyway.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Whereas the big chunk, the 330 or 40 or whatever it was, that's a bigger tax burden. And like I'm I'm with you on John. >> I'd rather not have a house payment. >> Mhm. Save the big chunk as a baby step seven action. >> Yeah, that's a good question. >> And that will cost you for everyone who's yelling and screaming into their their YouTube.

>> Yeah, people aren't going to agree with us on that. cost you um and Dave may disagree with me, but it's going to cost you potential compound growth that that

I mean it's going to cost you money to keep it there, right? If you're going to roll into a Roth and it could have grown taxree or that's there's going to be a penalty there, right? It's going to cost you something to not make that action.

>> Um but it's also going to cost you money that could have paid down your house principal and that house principal never is going to go away. And so I I would take that risk off the table first. That's just me. >> It's a prioritization.

We would say that if somebody if somebody called in today and even though this is through her employer, right? Uh if somebody called in today and said, "Hey, uh I've got 500,000 sitting in my, you know, in my traditional fund. Should I roll it over?" But they had a bunch of a pile of debt sitting there and they had payments. We would still walk them through the baby steps.

any type of investing over 15% is a baby step seven action. And so that's the way it rolls. And it's just like John said, it's keeping the priorities the priority, which is getting peace and getting your house paid off. Uh would come first in that. >> But I do love the idea of my the people who come after me being able to get all of my retirement with no taxes.

>> Absolutely. It's Yes, it is. It is important to do that. If you can do it, do it. And if you can only do Roth, only

do Roth. But like I said, free money, that's again, that's going to trump it at this point. So, that's the way it works. All right, guys. Enjoyed hanging out with you today. Uh, remember, there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. Thanks for watching the Ramsey Show. See you next time.

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## 252. You Can Still Take Charge Of Your Financial Future | October 17, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:03:12 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the brand new runaway hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat. He's my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Elizabeth's in Philadelphia. Hi, Elizabeth. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Wonderful. My husband and I

sorry >> it's okay. My husband and I are debt free and we were looking into investing

and at the advice of a family member, our in-laws, um they suggested to use a

site um that they had been using and

when we tried to create an account, we found that my husband's social security number was already in use. Um and

we have been told not to look into that further. um we can't create the account because his social security is in use and um we're we found out essentially that investments and things are being made in his name even though he's requested that they stop. Um they're sending us quote unquote refund checks

for the taxes that we pay on these investments. um how how can we get away

from this situation um essentially and be financially independent of um our

in-laws?

>> Wow.

>> Yeah, it's fun. >> So, your father-in-law is a con artist.

>> I mean, >> yeah, he's a criminal.

>> This is criminal freaking fraud.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah.

Well, you need to own this emotionally.

This guy's not only out of control, he's like, "Go to jail, out of control.

You're screwing around with the Securities and Exchange Commission with fraudulent transactions. All y'all are messing up. You're messing up by allowing it to occur." And he's go to jail time if they get Good God, people.

>> Yeah. >> Wow.

>> Mhm. >> See the difference in how I reacted and how y'all reacted? We've been told We've been told we're not to talk about this. Well, you buy God better.

>> You can talk about it from cell block C if you want.

>> Yeah. Have you measured your jumpsuits just to see how you look at them?

>> They'll probably be short.

>> Yeah. I'm just saying. I don't know how you look in orange, but you should probably look into that. >> So, this is what's known as a a family that puts the fun in dysfunctional.

>> Mhm.

So, when is your husband going to call his dad and mom and say, "Guys, you need to shut all of these accounts down in the next 48 hours or I'm filing a police

report." >> Mhm. >> So, we've done that. We just haven't filed the police report.

>> You told them that.

>> Yes. >> And they did not shut them down. We didn't tell them we were going to file a police report, but we've requested multiple times, very sternly, I'll say that in a polite way, to take the name off, get rid of it. We don't want anything to do with it. Cease and desist. >> What was their reaction?

>> Oh, we're doing this for your future.

>> He kissed my butt.

>> Hey, you guys uh suck at poker as well.

I'd love to play poker against you all.

>> You fold on everything. >> Yeah, they just push you around. This is nutto.

>> Yeah. >> Say, "Hey, I got a plan for you.

>> I don't want you in my future cuz my future looks like jail time right next to you, and I don't need a future that involves you. >> I'm I'm being really bold and weird and crazy and overdramatic here, but my point is is that you guys have not been strong enough on this." >> Okay? >> Maybe not as crazy as I've been for the last few minutes, but seriously, you guys got to get up on this and say, "Listen, we've talked to an attorney.

what you're doing is illegal. You're harming us. >> I know you think you're doing something good, but you're not.

>> And you have 48 hours to send us proof that you've shut down all of these accounts. Or, Mom, I'm filing a police record part on you and dad. Do Do you understand here? >> And this is your husband doing it, not you, >> cuz it's his freaking parents.

>> Good lord. >> Why are you on the phone with us and not him?

>> Um, well, he wasn't exactly a

fan of this. And when I our last

conversation that we all had around this and after that ended, I said, "Well, I'm going to call the Ramsay Show." And he just kind of laughed. I guess he didn't think I was really going to do it.

>> Well, now you can play this back for the whole family if you want.

>> You know, I >> I think you could send it to mom and dad. >> Yeah. And I I think you need to make sure you >> Mom and dad, if you happen to hear this, you suck. This is horrible what you're doing to your children. I know you think you're being smart, but you are way out of control. You've never met met the word called boundaries and we want to introduce it to you.

>> Yeah. I I Here's the thing. You're complicit in this now. Yeah.

And it's kind of scary that you called the show and and you've said that you're complicit in it because I I think you've laughed and I and I'm not trying to be a downer here. >> Just nervous. >> Well, but it's not funny. There's actually nothing funny about this.

I hope you hear the urgency. I don't think Dave was too extreme. I actually think that's what you should do because I don't even know. I'm no legal expert and I haven't played one on TV, but I do think this thing is far more serious as to what you all know than you actually realize.

>> Yeah, there's probably other stuff going on. >> I'd be terrified.

>> Yeah. And and honestly, we kind of suspected that recently just with how adamant they were cuz since this account's in my husband's social, he could easily call the company and, you know, get detailed information. And it was like, "Don't you dare. Like, you don't need to be looking in there." >> And he still hasn't. And we need to run your husband down to Walmart and have him pick up a backbone on aisle three.

>> He's going to Y'all are going to have to deal with this, honey. It's a mess.

Y'all are y'all are mess. Y'all are a hot mess. Oh my gosh. So, you know, the

first time I ever ran into this was a long, long time ago when I I we it was like decades ago. We started hearing the word identity theft. M >> I'd never heard the word before and it started coming up, you know, the internet started having more prolification and and you know, when I started the show, there was no internet. That's how long the show's been on the air. So, um, but I started hearing that and then I got just I just got hillbilly

mad cuz some guy calls in and goes, >> I'm 24 and my mom has seven credit cards that she opened in my name when I was 12 and 14 years old.

>> And I'm like, your mother is a freaking criminal. M >> she stole your identity. And and and and

the problem is the victim is just like her husband. They're like, "Well, it's just kind of how our family does things." Your family's full of criminals. That's how your family does things. Your family has no idea how the legalities, how the legal system works in America today. And when you're doing investments, you're now involving the Securities and Exchange Commission. It's not simply banking laws.

>> I mean, banking laws are credit card theft, right? Or identity theft with opening a credit card. You start open a dad gum mutual fund with a licensed

broker. Oh my god. You You don't understand. They love to make examples of people like this. >> Especially stupid people. They really do. The people that investigate this kind of stuff are the most uptight investigators. They are purists. This is

scary stuff. I And I just wonder what else is going on. When the dad says, "Don't look into this. >> Don't look. Don't look under the covers." Oh,

>> Dave, I I I'm I'm serious here when I ask you this. I'm trying to put myself in a position. If this was me, I would call the company and prove to the company that I'm the actual person with the social security. >> Find out find out the depth of what's going on. But that's only there's only one company that you found so far.

>> I wouldn't threaten the parents. I just go ahead and >> I would do both and I do it by nightfall. I mean, before the sun sets

on the horizon.

is putting things off because the problem is there's a family script here that says don't look >> which makes me worried about this. >> I'm here to say the emperor has no clothes. Okay, your family script is cuckoo.

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Sandra's in Chicago. Hey, Sandra. What's up?

>> Hi, uh Dave. Um I had a question, a financial question. I am in total $628,000 in debt. Um I have a home that

I purchased a little over a year ago for $335,000.

I have student loan debt of $260,000

and I have credit card debt for $33,000.

Um I had two jobs at one point. Um my

second job I no longer work as of 6 months ago. So now I'm just using my primary income and um I was trying to

figure out the quickest way to pay this debt down. Things are getting tough uh with me paying the minimum >> 20 $60,000 in student loan debt. Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

Um, I'm in the legal profession. Uh, close to a lawyer, but not. I do legal research for lawyers.

>> What' you spend $260,000 to become?

>> I have four degrees. Um, in what?

>> I have I have a uh associates degree in

biological science. I have a bachelor's degree in English. I have a um master's

degree in library science. and I have a second masters in intellectual property law which is a law degree but

so that's where all the debt came from.

>> The is that not a masters in jurish prudence? Can't you set for the bar?

>> Yes. >> Huh? >> Uh I'm not sure. I haven't done that research on that. Um >> it's like law school. I can check it.

Right. I mean law school is a masters.

>> Yes. >> You've got a degree in research. I heard you should probably look into that.

Yeah, I will after a phone call. I will.

>> Sorry.

>> Oh, that's nasty. No, I mean it's right there for you. >> So, what do you make?

>> Um, right now I'm I'm over six figures.

Um, and then the second job I was making close to like 25,000 a year

>> doing what? Um um I was uh consulting um in uh the

library world doing consulting work um helping them build their libraries back up. Libraries that are having issues.

>> They either don't pay much or you weren't working much. 25 grand. Huh.

>> Yeah. I wasn't doing a whole lot. Maybe about 15 20 hours a week if that.

>> 15 20 hours a week for 25 grand a year is not much. That's horrible.

>> No. >> Per hour. >> Mhm. Um, wow. Okay. Well, what what is

apparent is that you have um a lot of

education and a lot of upside potential therefore on your income if we can figure out a way to apply that education in a way that makes you more money, which is what you need is more money and not more degrees. You have plenty of those. Mhm. >> So, um >> yeah, I mean, you've got it's an income issue really, and you don't go buying a

$300,000 house when you have $300,000 in student loans. That was badass backwards, but um >> Mhm. >> the uh um

>> Are you single?

>> Yes. >> Okay. How old are you?

>> Single parent. Um 45.

>> Okay. So what I would start asking myself is what use of some of this education

can I do in the marketplace to make the

most money?

>> Mhm. >> And what combination of that? So if

library consulting only pays a dollar an hour, I don't really want to do that.

Okay. But if if I can get some serious money going for some of these different

things that you know how to do that you're knowledgeable in uh even if it's two things or three things I don't care but I I want some serious money and you don't really have serious money coming from any of these given your level of education.

>> I mean making 100,000 bucks or 120,000 bucks or whatever with uh 14 degrees is not I mean you're not >> this is not working. So, um, do you need

to sit for the bar and become a an attorney and make 300,000 or do you need to, uh, apply your masters in library

and in the form of education and make an extra 100,000 as a professor on the side doing that? I don't know. I don't know what the answer to this is, but it appears to me unlet, you know, I I don't

think we can sell off enough stuff here

>> to fix the underperformance of your

education without fixing the Now, if you get all those things going and you want to speed it up and sell the house, that'll be okay.

>> Okay. >> But how much equity do you have in the house?

>> Um, I think about 15,000.

>> Yeah, that's not enough. Just bought it.

What is your actual income? You never You just said six figures. What's the actual number?

>> Uh, around 115 117.

>> Yeah. Instead of consulting with libraries, which is a dead-end business, and I'm not trying to be unkind. There's just there's just no growth there.

There's no income there.

>> What can you do in that additional 15 to

20 hours a week with the expertise and experience you have to make some real extra money in the law space, legal space? What can you do? >> Intellectual property. I mean, yeah, that's a solid that's a solid >> and you don't have to answer it, but that's the homework assignment for you is how do I make an additional 50 to75,000 while I'm deciding what the passing the bar looks like. That's that's what you've got to be thinking. >> Sandra, I I might be wrong and and I'll

give you a 50% chance that I am, okay?

And so you don't have to take this directly on the chin unless it applies,

but it sounds like you fell for the lie

that if I get education, people will hand me money

and they're not. And you did. And then

you went and got another piece of education and then another piece of education. You've collected more degrees than a thermometer. And so, you know, you just keep collecting them. And but that's people that do that generally are one of two things.

They are trying to hide and they want to stay in school and they're trying to hide from reality. Um and so they just keep they're a professional student or they fell for the lie. I think you're in the second one.

Okay? And so you've got to think about how the knowledge that you have gained and you're a very knowledgeable person.

You've got uh we can make poke fun at all the degrees, but you also are you have a breadth of knowledge. It's pretty impressive. And so you got to think about how I can actually from a utilitarian perspective take that knowledge and use it to make as much money as possible. And if that had been your goal from the start, you probably would have a different list of degrees and fewer.

And so uh and it's a mistake people make all the time. They think if I just go to college and get a four-year degree that the degree the degree is useless.

The knowledge you get while you're getting the degree ladies and gentlemen.

Now that knowledge is great power.

>> Yeah. >> Assuming it is power assuming is knowledge that the marketplace wants. And to your point uh not picking on libraries or anything but we live in a digital age. Yeah. And uh the Dewey decimal system is not exactly high on people's knowledge list right now or use us usage. And so um well you got public

libraries. The key word there is public and therefore it's government funded and libraries are way down the list of the politicians budget items. And so that's why that's really honestly a dead end.

You know I'll just add one thing to what you said Dave because a lot of people listening want to expand this to a larger audience. Here's the voice of temptation you will hear if you find yourself in a situation like this.

I'm not doing anything because I don't know what I want to do. So, I should probably do something. And I know if I don't know what I should be doing, I should be doing something valuable. And you quickly go, "Oh, if I continue learning, at least that's valuable." And what happens is you exchange uncertainty

and the fear that comes with that for certainty and what you think is the future for that. And to Dave's point, uh, that is not a good exchange.

Accept uncertainty and know that I can at least get out and step out of the uncertain and I can be active and I can connect and I can do some work while I'm figuring it out. But continuing to push uncertainty down the road ends up in

this kind of financial liability. That's really the temptation. A lot of good people, smart people, uh, do this and I'm telling you, avoid this. Avoid that.

You know, when we were doing the uh documentary Borrowed Future, we had a lot of discussions of people like me that I was the first in my family uh in

in my generation in my immediate family tree to get a four-year degree. And if you're the first, a lot of times you value the wrong things. What you should

be valuing is the knowledge, not the actual degree, and the application of the knowledge in the marketplace. And that keeps you from signing up for too expensive a degree and the wrong degrees. [Music]

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John is in Atlanta. Hi, John. How are you? >> I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Thanks. Hey, I just want to first say thank you for all you do. Uh my question is I've been following the baby steps.

I've been knocking out some debt and it's been going well. Um I'm down to my last debt which is a car um 34,000 on it

currently and it's worth about 31 32. My

question is, should I go ahead and bite

the negative equity, just pay that off, sell it, essentially pay the negative equity, and then buy a beater for the time being, or just try to pay off the car fast and just keep going with the debt snowball. >> What's your household income?

>> Just north of 100K.

>> Okay. So, how fast do you pay the car off?

>> Um, currently could pay it off and I'

I've got some extra cash I could pay towards it. So, I could probably >> How much cash do you have? Huh?

>> I can put about $7,000 towards it.

>> Okay. And once you do that, No, no, no, no. That That wasn't what I asked. What I asked was how much cash you have.

>> Yeah. I got 7,000 to put.

>> That's your No, you said to put. I'm asking how much cash you have, not how much you have to put. How much money do you have?

>> Just uh $10,000.

>> Okay. All right. And so you determined that three left in the account was the proper amount. We think it's one. So you have nine that you could put towards it.

Do you have any other nonretirement investments?

>> No. >> Are you married?

>> Yes. >> What does she make?

>> Um she that's included just north of 100 including the household. >> Oh, that's household income. Good. Okay, good. Perfect. and no other assets anywhere except $10,000 in your name that aren't retirement assets.

>> That's correct. Yeah, we've been paying down pretty aggressively. >> Good. Good for you. Okay. Well done. All right. If I woke up in your shoes, I would put nine towards it and leave $1,000 in the account. Be on a total every dollar budget and you and your wife sit down, know where every dollar is going before the month begins. Make every dollar behave. You'll feel like you've gotten a raise. And if you squeeze every dollar out of your life,

how fast can you pay off $24,000?

>> Definitely. Um, well, you need less than 24 months, probably 18 months.

>> That's wussy.

How about one year?

>> All right, >> that's $2,000 a month. 24 from 100 plus

or minus an extra job, plus or minus selling some stuff. And we're talking no eating out, no going on vacation, beans and rice, rice and beans. Do you like this car that much enough to keep it to fight for it like that for a year?

>> Yeah. You know, I I think so. I think when you look at the used car market, what I've been looking at is I was looking at something real cheap, but my wife needs something reliable for the kids. Um >> Oh, carries for that.

>> Yes. >> Oh. What are you driving?

>> I have a paid for pickup truck. That's

how old >> it's um 6 years old.

>> Okay. So, 2019.

Nice truck. Okay.

>> Um >> cool. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean that if I

woke up in your shoes and I like the car, I would be on beans and rice and the car would be paid off in under a year. Under those circumstances, I would keep it. >> If you're going to drag it out two years, I would sell it.

>> That's fair. That's good. >> Too long. Too long. Trying to trying to swim with a boat anchor around your ankle. It's no fun. You get end up drowning. It's not fun. So, you got to you got to break the cycle here. So,

guys, um I can help y'all with some of this cuz some of you listening listening listen listen and then still walk in here into the bear in the bear's den. Um

the um and get called wussy by the way.

>> Yeah. >> But I I didn't say he's a wussy. I said that's wussy. >> I know. But wussy is a fun word. >> Wussified. I like that you brought that back. >> It's a lack of intense sacrificial

involvement. Okay.

>> The uh so

what Ken and I what any of the Ramsey personalities and I and what I've what I've always done, what I've always taught them to do is we just do look at big numbers. Okay. 100 minus 24 leaves

that family enough to live on.

That's how I did it in a year. And then 24 divided by 12 is $2,000 a month. So, it's fairly easy. It's it's sixth grade math done fairly quickly in my minor brain here. And so that that's, you know, so when you're looking at stuff, ask yourself, okay, I make $175,000 a year and I'm going to pay off $75,000 and and I'm going to do it over four years. Well, no.

No. We're going to take 175us 75 and leave you whining about living on a 100,

okay, and and get it done in one year.

Or maybe we did it in 6 months and lived

on really beans and rice instead of acting like you're rich or something cuz you're broke. And so this is the kind of stuff. These are the mentalities. But if you'll just take those big numbers and start shuffling, do big number math like that, you can know what we're going to tell you, it's going to come in pretty quick. Brooks is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Brooks.

>> Hey Dave and Ken. Hope you're both well.

>> We are sir. How can we help?

>> Well, I'll try not to be a wussy on this question. And a boy. At a boy. It's

T-ball, baby. >> There we go. Um, so my question is,

should my wife and I withdraw our fund from our non-retirement brokerage and savings account to pay off our home?

>> How much do you owe in your home?

>> 273. >> And how much is in the brokerage?

>> 202 and 83 in a Wells Fargo savings

account. >> So So enough to knock it out and still have an emergency fund.

Yeah, that was my other question was capital gains tax and emergency fund.

What would your recommendations be?

>> Uh, an emergency fund and make sure you have the capital gains banked. What's your household income?

>> Um, I'm the only one that works. My wife stays home with our daughter. I make 110 before taxes with potential for another 100 in sales. >> Okay. Well, 100% of what we're talking about is not taxable, but only the gain

on it is taxable. And the money market's probably got very little gain. And if it does have gain, it's taxable not at capital gains, but at ordinary income.

So, it's only the brokerage account itself. What did it start out at? How what's your basis in that account?

>> From what I've been able to calculate, it would tax about 81,000 of it.

>> Okay. So, 15% of 81,000.

>> Yep. >> Wow. So, it's been sitting there a while. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So,

uh 12 grand, right?

>> Give or take. Yes, sir. And and so wait a minute. You said you we got 280 to work with. No, no. 80 and two what?

>> Uh the mortgage is 273 and roughly 285

to pay it off with.

>> Okay. >> Cuz you got 202 in the brokerage.

>> Okay. So So you have 15,000 in your emergency fund and you need to save 12,000 before tax time.

>> Yes. >> I think you can do that making 100 with no house payment.

>> Yeah. The mortgage is $1870 right now.

>> Yeah. If you just took your house payment, put it up, you'd have enough for your for your capital gains tax when it comes due by April 15th of 2026.

>> Would you consider waiting till January to wait for the 2027 tax season?

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> I might I might just to help your cash flow. >> Yeah. >> Because this is a little tight. I'm I'm I I number I would if you had zero money left and you had to pay off your house, you had no emergency fund left, I would not tell you to pay it off. >> Okay. >> And I would tell you to wait till January. And we're kind of on the bubble on that. I mean, you got a little bit here. Um but uh Yeah. Yeah. Cuz that

kicks it out. It kicks it out almost uh 14 15 months then.

>> Yep. >> By doing that. Yeah. That's that's a good >> Okay. >> I do, man. But gosh, I mean, be ready.

Like I'm talking like you pop a champagne cork at New Year's and you write a check, right?

>> For sure. >> I mean, don't don't hesitate here. Don't don't don't rethink this and over analyze it and all that kind of stuff.

Uh but that's a that's a that's a valid question sitting here um in late

October.

We're only talking about 60 days. I mean, think Christmas is only 10 weeks away, >> right? >> So that's not a if if we were earlier in the year, I probably wouldn't. But since we're right here on the threshold anyway. Yeah, that's a good that's very non-wified. Brooks, I'm proud of you.

>> I like that's how we started every call.

Wuss or no wuss?

>> To wuss or not to wuss. >> Yeah, there you go.

>> Brooks, you're fun, man. >> Shakespeare would have loved that.

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Not in all states. Today's question comes from Jessica in Illinois. Before getting serious about following the baby steps, I co-signed a car loan for my 22-year-old daughter. I have two credit card balances to tackle besides her car and I will be debtree.

She owes 12,000 on the car and I have 20,000 in credit card debt. Do I finish paying my personal debt and move on to baby step three or do I include her car note in my debt snowball? She has not missed a payment and has not asked for help paying, but I just really want to be done with it so it's not hanging over both of our heads.

starter emergency fund in savings and want to move on to baby step three as soon as possible.

>> Tell her Dave, um, well, we're going to pay off the car after you pay off your credit cards cuz the car is under control right now. It's not in panic. So, we'll put it at the back of the debt snowball and clear your credit cards and then clear the car and then work something out with your daughter so that she repays you since you're paying off her car early.

>> Okay? Because there's several problems

um with this that that lay in the future.

If she gets laid off, gets in a car wreck, has a medical event, anything like that, this is going to come back on you. It's what we call a contingent liability, which means it's a liability.

And meaning they're going to come after you. And by the way, they're going to come after you really fast and they're going to skip over her because they never thought she was going to pay it in the first place. That's why they wanted a cosigner. And so they're going to come straight at you if something goes wrong.

And I I mean, I'm not predicting horrible things happening to your daughter, but you know, life just says things happen. And um that's why we

never cosign. So, um, I have co-signed

and I ended up paying it. And when I went bankrupt in my 20s, a friend of mine had co-signed for some stuff and he ended up paying it. I went back and paid him back even though the bankruptcy said I didn't have to, but I wasn't going to burn my buddy just cuz he was dumb enough to cosign and I was dumb enough to let him. But, um, let me just tell you, the most aggressively marketed product in the United States today

is debt.

debt is sold as a product more

aggressively. More sophistication, more money, more bandwidth is spent selling you folks debt because it's so profitable than any other product.

I mean, you think you've seen a Chevy Silverado run through a mud puddle on every football program for the last 20 years, and you think Chevy spends money on that. It's nothing compared to what Visa, Mastercard, American Express, and

your local bank spends to get you to cosign a car for your kid. Okay? They

spend money convincing you, and they've convinced an entire culture, generationally, that the only way to prosper, the only way to get what I need is to go to the bank.

the only way my daughter gets a car.

They've convinced you and brainwashed you of that so that you cosign because she couldn't get the car on her own.

Now, if debt is so profit profitable

that they will literally fire a teller

if they don't get enough home equity loan applications in while you're making deposits.

Victoria's Secret literally does not

sell small underwear.

It really sells credit cards. So much so that if you ask the ladies that work there, if they don't sell a certain number of credit cards per shift, they get fired.

They make more money on credit than they do small underwear.

Same at the car lot, same everywhere else. Okay? And so if this is the most aggressively marketed product and if they want to sell debt more than they want to live and eat and breathe and they won't loan your daughter money, something's really wrong because they really want to loan her money. And if those people, the sharks,

will not loan her money, your sweet little daughter, your sweet little grandson who wants his pickup, your daughter, your your daughter who just went through a nasty divorce, if they won't loan her money,

it's because she's not going to pay it back.

So, don't act like that you're doing somebody a favor by helping them buy

something they can't afford. That's what you do when you cosign. It's stupid.

As a matter of fact, it says it in the Bible. Proverbs 17:18 says, "One lacking in sense cosigns for another."

And if you look up 17:18 in the CEV, the contemporary English vont contemporary English version, this is not a joke. This is a fact. Look it up. It says, "If you cosign for someone else, you're stupid." That's what it says. Because of

what I just described. And so, poor

Jessica, I'm not calling you stupid, but I am calling you what you did stupid.

Stupid. You were trying to help. You're sweet. You're trying to help your daughter. All that. But yeah. So, what do we do with stupid? We get out of it as fast as we can cuz it's going to tackle you by the ankles later if you're coming up from behind. Look out. Look over your shoulder. So, and folks, the next time you get ready to cosign for someone, just remember it's stupid.

I mean, straight up biblically stupid.

Don't do it. If the most aggressively

marketed product in the nation will not loan your friend, your daughter, your son, your grandson, whatever it is, whoever it is you're trying to quote help by getting them a car payment. God help you if they won't loan them money. It's cuz they can't pay it.

And they're not even looking to them. They're looking to you. And that's what this is for. So please, and I've done it. I'm not saying it I'm it's been

decades ago, but I still remember how stupid I felt when I wrote those checks.

I knew this. I knew this guy was a dead.

I knew he I knew the bank was right. The bank wouldn't loan him money, but I'm so smart. I'm going to help him. And then I get to pay the bill. And you know what I wrote on the four column on the check?

Stupid tax. That's good. I paid some

stupid tax. Tax on your life when you're stupid. And I paid plenty of stupid tax in my life. And some of y'all have too. Try not to do it, though. I'm trying to help you with this.

>> So, the moral of the story is don't do debt and don't buy small underwear. Is that right, >> Ken? You're very precise on your listening, folks. >> I am locked in. I'm locked in, folks. I want to make sure you're catching the lesson. >> I I did not say small underwear was off

the menu. I just said financing it.

That's all I said. >> Some guy in the audience got very excited out there. He elbowed his wife.

>> Kayla. Kayla's in Kansas City. Hey, Kayla. What's up?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, I have a question. Um, I have around

$3,000 in credit card debt.

>> Mhm. >> I owe around $12,000 on my car um that I

bought during CO I got or right before CO. So, I have 2% interest rate and it's worth 22 to 25,000 right now. Mhm.

>> Um, so I have equity in my vehicle, but then I have 16 almost $17,000 in student loans. >> Mhm. >> My student loans are all federal financial um through federal financial aid. And through that, it's broken down into three loans >> into how many? >> I'm new to your program.

>> How many? Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. How many loans in the 17,000 is student loans? How many different loans? Two.

>> I'm sorry. Three. >> Three. Okay, I got you. All right. Go ahead.

So, working the baby steps, I'm going to one start with a credit card. Two, what

I didn't know is if I should start with

my car or if I should split the

financial aids up, financial aid actual loans up. >> They're not financial aid. They're federal student loans that are failing >> and we just need to get rid of them. And you have three of them. What are the amounts on those >> exactly? First one's 3,553.

>> Mhm.

>> Second one's 6,490.

>> Mhm. >> And the third one is 6,645.

>> Yeah. So, credit cards to student loans to car smallest to largest.

>> Gotcha. >> After broken down to keep those whole or break them. >> Yeah. It doesn't matter mathematically much because you're going to do it at about the same time frame. What's your household income?

150k. >> Oh, good. Okay. So, you're going to be done real fast,

>> right?

>> Okay. So, I just didn't know if I >> Yeah, just pay off the smallest first cuz when you pay off the smallest. And by the way, cut those credit cards up tonight. Time for a plusic surgery.

A plasttomy.

Chop chop chop chop. Get you a debit card. They don't accidentally run up debt for airline miles. I've never made

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of Front Row Seat on the Ramsey Network is my co-host. Vanessa is in Corpus Christie, Texas. Hi, Vanessa.

How are you? >> Hi, I'm good, thank you. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> I my parents and myself and my children

consolidated households a few years back

and my mom made the down payment on the house and I've been making the payments,

the utilities, everything else. So, I've been maintaining the household. I'm getting ready to sell the house and we're going to go to separate residences.

My question is, should I give her would

I get back out of the house to basically

pay her back for the down payment? I think I should. My brothers think I shouldn't.

>> Okay. So, how are your your is your dad

still alive?

>> My dad has just moved into a nursing home. >> Okay. So, where's your mom going?

>> I'm assuming an apartment or something.

Yeah, I'll get her a little apartment.

I've told her I'll pay $1,000 a month towards whatever rent or whatever she needs, and then she'll need to live on her social security from there.

>> Okay. So, is this a relational breakup?

Is that why you're selling the house?

>> It will be better for a relationship to sell the house. Yes, a relational breakup. Also, my youngest child is

about to go to college, and with my dad moving into a nursing home, we do not need a house as large as we have.

>> Okay. All right. How long have you been in the house?

>> 3 years. >> Okay. So, there's not any written agreement? >> No, sir. >> Okay. >> Well, was it a gift or was it a I'm going to contribute to this collective living arrangement?

>> I

I think it was more like we're out of money. I'm going to give you what I have left and buy a house and you're going to take care of me for the rest of my days.

>> Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Okay.

So, um, how much did she give you at the

time for the down payment on this house?

>> It was 84,000.

>> And how much equity will you get out of the house when you sell it?

>> I think I'll get between 60 and 70ish.

So, you've lost money on the house, >> I think. So, yes, sir.

>> How?

>> I It's just the market we bought at the very height when it was um >> the market in Corpus Christie, Texas, has not crashed.

>> Okay. >> Where are you getting your numbers?

>> From my realtor, >> the one that sold you the house?

>> No, sir. M. So she says you over or he says you overpaid dramatically for it at the time cuz I don't think house I mean what'd you pay for the house total?

>> Uh 415.

>> Okay. So you're saying this house has lost 10% of its value in 3 years rather than going up in value.

I don't I don't think so.

>> Yeah. Okay. I I'll I'll buy that. I I

might be able to get a little more out of it. The neighborhood we're in, there's still new builds being built.

So, why do your brothers think that your mom should not at least get her money back out of it? That there there's some

logic here I'm missing?

>> Yes, sir. Um, they think one that she

won't be responsible with it and two that she owes me basically rent for paying for everything for the last three years.

>> Wow. Nobody in this family's happy with mom. Okay.

Not at the moment. We love mom, but we're not happy with mom. >> Yeah, I got that. I got it.

Yeah, she's difficult. >> Um, >> and I'll make sure she's taken care of whether >> I didn't hear that. I'm not hearing you be a jerk. You're not being a jerk.

I'm just It's just interesting. Matter of fact, you're being so subtle. I'm having trouble coming to conclusions. But, um, yeah, I'm not I'm not anti the brother's point of view right out of the gate.

I'm not saying I'm supportive, but I'm also like, you've been paying for everything since she's been in there.

That's That's correct. It was fuzzy.

There's not a clear deal. I mean, the clear deal was you stay there until she dies and then it's your money >> and that >> Well, the clear deal Yeah. When she when they passed away, I would get basically the house. >> Yeah. Which was the down payment money.

I mean, that's it all it's worth. Okay.

>> Right. And now my dad is Alzheimer's incapacitated. Can't make any decisions on the house. My mom has left. I don't

think she's far behind him going in the nursing home.

Um but but we need to we need to split

residences.

>> Okay. And your mom thinks she that she should get the money or does she say it?

>> My mom has not said a word.

>> Okay. Interesting.

Okay. I don't think I don't have a clear ethical or moral guide on this. Um, so

the the the fact that your mom wouldn't take care of the money does not make it not hers.

>> Agreed. >> Yeah. Stupid's not illegal. And so, uh,

it doesn't it doesn't mean you get your money taken from you just cuz you are incompetent. That's not how it works.

So, it's not private not how profit private property laws work. But, I'm also not sure it's her money anymore.

So, I don't know what to do. Um, what would I do if I were in your shoes?

because I don't hear you bringing harm to her or revenge or vengeance. I don't hear any of that in your language or your voice. I just hear separation has to occur and I love her and she needs to be over there and so I got it. And it's

very, you know, you're being very kind.

And um so

the other thing is if you put this money in her name and she goes straight into a nursing home, um that's what it's going to get used for, >> right? >> If you keep it in your name and she goes straight into a nursing home, you can work with the nursing home and negotiate with them and use the money to care for her as if it was for her, as if it was her money. But you kept control of it.

>> Is there a way I could put it in something that would >> Nope. >> take care of her until then?

>> Uh, yeah, you can put it as long, but you're you you put it in a mutual fund and you could give her some monthly income out of the mutual fund. In other words, you're not personally taking use of the money, but you're keeping it in your name for her good. That's the same as giving it back to her, but maybe better given the situation.

>> I think that's a great idea. >> Yeah. And I I I'm listening to this and and I'm just going to say that you've already committed, you've told Dave and I that you're going to give her a,000 bucks a month to go towards her living expenses. She has to foot the bill from social security.

So I think in some ways this is a bit of semantics because you're already committing to give her 12,000 a year. >> But you wouldn't have to do that if you use this 80,000 or 60,000 or whatever to create an income. >> It's all the same thing. I I I don't know that I would give her the money.

>> No, it's I'm not I'm not giving it to her.

Yeah. If I'm managing her money, Yeah.

then I wouldn't give her $1,000 out of my income a month. Of course. Exactly.

>> But I'm saying it's a pot of money and I just don't think the lump sum given to her to control is what I'm saying. I just wouldn't do it. >> Yeah. >> I think I think >> because there's not a moral imperative to do that because there's no deal.

>> Yeah. >> You're not breaking a deal.

>> No. >> The deal is I want her taken care of.

>> Well, you're doing that and you're going to do it. >> Exactly. >> And I think it's a great idea. So, the best way to do that is to keep the money earmarked for her. In other words, you're not going to take this money and use it for your next down payment.

>> It's going to be sitting over here with an investment advisor earmarked in an account named mom, even though it's but the legal owner of the account is Melody. And that Yeah, that makes sense.

Or Vanessa, I'm sorry. That makes more sense. Yeah. H

It's good if you treat other people like you don't be treated. That's always a good rule. I think Jesus said that.

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Susan is with us in Memphis. Hi, Susan.

How are you? >> Hi. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I have a question. I am 72 years

young and on baby step two and I've

jumped all in with both feet. I've got the book, the Total Money Makeover book, the workbook, the Every Dollar app, the financial coach, and I'm just wondering, am I too late to be doing all of this?

>> No, >> it's uh it's harder to make the exact same progress. I mean, the power of compound interest if you were 22 would work to your favor to build a million dollars a lot better. But it is the fast what you're looking for at at any age

>> is first getting to sustainability

and then moving into, you know, wealth building. And the fastest road to sust sustainability is to get rid of the

consumer debt, get those payments out of your life and build an emergency fund.

>> Exactly. and and then of course start building the nest egg. And so you're still working?

>> No, I'm retired. >> Okay. So, what's your income? What are you living on? >> Um 67 uh a year. 67,000 a year.

>> Okay. And how much debt do you have? Not counting your home. >> Oh, I'm embarrassed. Well, my home is paid for 41,000.

>> 41,000. Good. On what?

>> Mhm. I'm sorry.

>> On what?

Um, credit cards is ridiculous credit

cards. >> Okay, that's okay. So, uh, have you analyzed for self-awareness yet where

that debt came from? How did you get $41,000 in credit card debt? What were you spending it on?

>> Well, my problem was I had two sons that

both died within six months of each other. >> Oh my. >> Yeah. And I just went to retail therapy.

I thought that would make me feel better and cure the >> cure the um >> understandable thing and it's a it's a clear analysis.

>> So we know the point is it's not going to reoccur.

>> No. Right. >> And so that's the point of the self-awareness, right, Ken? >> Yeah. See, when you're clear on the source of it, we go, "All right, how do I guard against that?" You know, and you walk through something that is unimaginable for a parent. So, you know,

you do have the knowledge now of this deep pain caused me to do this. So, you can get out of it. Here's my question.

Can you through the skill and experience you have up to this point in your life, can you pick up some work that would be just focused on knocking this 42,000 out as quick as possible?

>> What did you do? >> Okay. Um, I was administrative assistant

for churches. >> Perfect. >> That's easy. I got to tell you. So, >> tool that up real fast. >> Yeah, I would be. And I know this isn't fun. So, I know this is a bitter pill, >> but if you went to work for a year and it'd all be over, that'd be cool. >> That's right.

>> H Okay, that gives you something to think about then. >> This is Think about this is we're only working for the sole purpose of knocking out this pain. And this is going to be extra special for you, not just to remove the burden of the debt, but what that debt is actually tied to, which is a lot of pain. >> Okay. Okay, that makes sense.

>> And I think you need a goal like that at 72 is my point. If you can visualize that to see why I'm doing this, there's really a two-fold victory. I think it's huge. Do do you have um

the the 67,000 that's a retirement income, a pension?

>> It is. My husband's in the service, so he and he died from Agent Orange, so we get or I get a compensation from that, plus his army benefits. Um, >> so there's no nest egg.

>> No. >> Okay. All right. Cool. All right. How much is your house worth?

>> Um, about 350.

>> Okay, good. Yeah, I think you're fine.

We get you out of debt. You're going to be fine. Um, and you know, it'd be neat if you started building up some kind of investments, but we don't have to panic about that part of it.

>> Um, okay. But I do need you to have an emergency fund of $15,000 and be debtree. So, you're $60,000 from your goal. So, one year of work might be really cool.

>> Okay. All right. Well, now should go.

>> I'm sorry. Go ahead. >> No, you're fine. Go ahead.

>> Um, I was just going to ask along a different note. Uh, should I close my local bank accounts and go with Fair Winds? I've read a bunch about it.

>> Well, we're big fans of Fairwinds. Uh we've all got Fairwinds accounts, but we've not closed our other accounts.

>> We've got both. Okay. >> We've got both. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so, like Rachel opened up hers cuz she wanted that cool debit card.

>> She she was like the first one. She went running to do it. So, um but um but no,

I I you know, for for starters, you might end up with them 100%, but I would start with a 50/50.

>> Oh, okay. and make the make the transition gradually at this stage because you've got you got enough other things that you're burning calories on.

>> I mean, you know, you're burning brain calories on. So, yeah, you're doing good. Susan, I I got to tell you, just the talking to you, the uh clarity in

the language you're using and the way you're describing all of this. Uh there's a lot of wisdom >> and a lot of self-awareness. So, I predict that you're going to do very, very, very well. And I'm sorry you went through this these tragedies and that it left you with this uh credit card stain as a part of that story.

I'm with Ken on that. So yeah, the sooner you get rid of that, the better and the more stable you get. And yes, the baby steps do apply regardless of age, regardless of income, but we're, you know, we're apt to adjust the income around here. We're not above saying get a job.

We do that sometimes, like almost every day.

Denver. Hey Melody, what's up?

Hey, I'm so excited to talk to you guys.

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> Um, so I have about $4,000 in credit

card debt that I would really love to just knock out and get out of my life.

Um, >> I have $5,000 in savings. Mhm.

>> But the problem that I keep running into

and has me feeling stuck is um my

husband and I were both self-employed and um both of our jobs are very seasonal and so winter is when we go into slow season. Um and that always puts us kind

of in like >> you're you're doing what again with your job? >> It's seasonal. So in the winter, >> what do you do? >> Yeah.

Um, I'm a photo editor for like wedding photographers and then my husband does shed hauling.

>> Okay.

>> So, we're about to go into slow season

and usually we have to be, you know, very, very, very frugal and like last year we had to dip into our savings.

>> Well, that's because you're not working.

Why don't you work >> at something that's not dur on the season? I mean, if you're a photographer, get Santa Claus lined up.

>> I'm not kidding. I'm not >> a photo editor. >> Yeah, but do something else then. Just because you're a photo editor full-time doesn't mean you can't go be >> How about being a photo editor for something other than weddings >> like Santa Claus pictures? I'm serious.

Or something that I mean, offset your seasonal instead of saying I have to sit on my butt, >> right? No, I've I've taken as many clients as I can possibly get. Um, >> only in the seasonal area.

>> Home mom.

>> No, it's for um worldwide. I I can take

clients. >> Yeah, but even if it's you, you said stay-at-home mom, so you're making excuses here. I get it. But your husband can at least be working. He could be stocking shelves. He can be uh driving trucks. He can be doing all kinds of things that you don't even have to touch the savings, >> right? Yeah. I mean, that would be the logical >> No, no, no, no, no. It's not. That would be >> No, no, no. Not would be must be >> is >> must I must work in in our seasonal

downtime.

>> Yeah. No, I agree 100%. The issue for

him is that um he has a bad record. Um

so he did some stupid stuff when he was a teenager and because of that, >> darling, >> stupid stuff didn't keep him from building sheds. >> Yeah. And I would tell you they're building homes. They're building you can do in spite of having stupid stuff on your record. Sitting on your butt is only one of them.

>> That whole industry, by the way, is full of people who have people on their record. I worked in construction as a college kid, and I was the only one with a driver's license. I had run as much time getting getting jobs as you do, making excuses, you'd have no money problems.

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in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtree stage. Mitchell and Sarah are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hello.

>> Hi. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> Anchorage, Alaska. >> Fine. Welcome to Tennessee.

>> It's beautiful here. >> Oh, we're glad to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> $217,000.

>> Awesomeness. How long did that take?

>> Three years. >> Three years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time? >> Started around 100,000, ended at $172,000.

>> Wow. Nice jump in three years. Yeah.

>> What do you guys do for a living? >> I'm an occupational therapist. Mhm. And I work for Costco. >> Very cool. >> Have you met George? George would love to meet you.

>> So, what was responsible for that $72,000 jump?

>> Uh, a couple things. Um, when we first started, he was on workman's comp and um

and we were currently living in Idaho and then we moved to Alaska, which also led to an increase in income and get him

back to work. >> Yeah. Okay. Led all that. >> Very cool. So, what made you go on the Alaska adventure? I'm curious.

>> Well, we just really felt God kind of opening that door. And

>> you didn't notice the cold air when he opened the door?

>> We We welcomed it when it came through the door. >> Arctic blast. >> Yeah. Well, um >> yeah, we were in a dark year.

Um the year prior my dad had passed away. Um he had gone a workman's comp. M >> um we had made some dumb money decisions and we needed to make some change. We had a lot of things happen all at once >> and a change in scenery is not a bad idea.

>> Yeah. >> All kidding aside. Yeah. >> Yeah.

And so God pay in Alaska is excellent. It is. >> Yeah. And how long do you have to be there before you get to participate in the gas stuff and all that?

>> Um it has to be one full calendar year starting in January. So if you moved in like after January, you have to wait until the following January to start all over. Okay. >> So >> So you not been there long enough yet?

>> We just got We just got it. Oh, no. year. Three years.

Yeah. You just got that. Okay, cool. So, how much is that a year?

>> Oh, no. >> No, >> it's like $1,000. >> Oh, I thought it was here. >> Yeah, I think this year it was $1,000.

>> On behalf of everybody. What are we talking about? >> Uh, PFD. It's from the um oil fields that they have in contract with the um Alaska government. >> If you're an Alaska resident, you get to participate in the profits.

>> Well, profit sharing the pipeline. Okay, that's nice to know. Okay. I'm sorry. I thought it was substantial. I didn't realize only a thousand bucks. Okay. All that discussion for not much. All right.

Anyway, so >> is this the house? Did you pay off that?

No. No. >> No. Student loans, car, credit cards, um

medical debt. >> Medical and um tax.

>> Cool. And how old are y'all?

>> I'm 34. >> And 35. >> How long you been married? >> Five years. Okay. So, two years there, tragedy strikes, new scenery, moved to the So, how where in this process do you get tied into Ramsey stuff?

>> I started um after I graduated from OT school um in winter of uh 2019.

>> And we were dating at the time and I was telling Mitch about it and he was not on board. >> He thought I was at MLM scheme.

>> Mhm. >> And I wish I would have made more money.

And then when we got married went a little more Daveish and didn't take things quite as seriously. And then when

we had that hard hard year, it's like we really need to get >> it brought everything into focus.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Come together. >> So Mitch, when everything get when the when the hard times hit, what made you say, "Okay, we're going to do the Ramsey stuff now." >> Um I think for me it was just seeing

>> uh >> something's got to change. something just had to change and and seeing how

scared Sarah was and how hard she was

working. She took on three jobs >> and with work comp, they don't, >> you know, really make ends meet >> and so it was just kind of all of that and it it took a while for God to work on my heart for that. >> Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough.

That's that's it's not that unusual, but I always love hearing the story. >> Yeah. Uh, it's not just because other people are probably in exactly the same spot that are watching or listening to this. So, yeah.

Yeah. Very cool. Good for you guys. >> So, what do you tell people the key to getting out of $200,000 worth of debt in three years?

>> We didn't eat nothing but rice and beans. >> Lots of Mexican food.

>> Yeah. >> Um being willing to sacrifice um especially for the short term with that end goal in mind. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um especially because like um we had a slight pregnancy scare and in the middle of all that and we realized I we couldn't afford to even

have daycare. We couldn't afford to have one of us um step down.

>> So if we wanted to have a family, we needed to make some sacrifices. >> Something had to change. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Keep doing the same thing over and over.

Don't expect a different result, right?

So you got to change something. >> Yep. Yep. >> To change the recipe if you want a different cake. Yeah. Good. Good for y'all. Proud of you. This is herculean effort when you look at those numbers.

217 bench pressing like 400 lb. Pretty

incredible. >> So, here's what I want the audience to hear. >> How quickly in your journey did you begin to see momentum? Cuz you you bought in and you went hard at this thing. How quickly before you went, "Oh, we're making headwind and we're we we can actually do this." >> It was I don't know, as soon as we got to Alaska kind of. We got there and and

I got back into full-time work. I got a raise. Sarah got her big raise. And it

was just >> it was it was really quick. >> At that point, you guys had already been all in going hard at it.

>> What's the What's the first debt that got paid off? >> The car. >> Yeah, the car. >> Okay. And what's the one that you paid off that went I hate you. I'm so glad you're gone. >> All of it. >> Yeah. All of it. There was none of it.

That was good. >> A lot of hate. A lot of hate. That's good. >> Yeah. That's a motivator. That's okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Good. Way to go, you guys. All right.

And so, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? >> Man, for me, it was getting on the same page >> and uh getting on that budget and just

being real with one another, communicating, and that's that's a huge

thing >> I would say. Know your why. Know what your goal is. Why?

>> What was yours?

a life of peace, >> a life of being able to do things that we want to do without having to have that fear of

I should be doing something else with my money. >> Whether that is advant like taking education for my career or going on vacation or even just buying >> or not having pregnancy and scare in the same sense. >> Exactly. >> Having that peace. >> Yeah. Peace.

>> It's not a scare anymore. >> No. No. >> Yeah. Good. Very cool you guys. Very cool. Uh, who was cheering you on?

>> My family for sure. My mom taught FPU when I was in grad school. All my siblings did FPU and all of their families. >> Yeah.

All of my family, siblings, parents. We have a lot of friends in Alaska and Idaho that >> we were very open and honest with them about what we're doing. >> They all cheer us on. >> Well, that's good.

So, nobody dragging you down? >> No. >> Nobody saying you're crazy? No.

>> Oh, there's some people that said we're crazy. >> Okay, good. Cuz you need to those people motivate, too. I'm just saying if that guy thinks I'm crazy, I'm right on track.

You know that you need that guy, the anti-mentor.

>> Yeah. I like it. Very cool.

>> I remember working years ago on a campaign in Alaska. I was probably 21.

And I never forget this. We were out campaigning, knocking on doors, old school style, Dave, and it's probably 7:00 at night, summertime, gorgeous. And

I come off of somebody's front porch and I look to turn to the next house and I see a gigantic, I mean full-blown adult moose chewing on flowers in a suburban

neighborhood. And that blew my mind.

>> They're everywhere. >> We have them in our yard. >> Not a deer, a giant moose like it's a pet. >> And that's scary stuff. >> It's pretty scary. Freaks me out.

>> Nasty. Yeah. >> You're brave people in more ways than

>> I love it. Well, congratulations you guys once again. The whole Ramsey crew is proud of you. Thanks for making the trip down here to celebrate and to encourage others on the YouTube and the podcast. And everybody let let people know this can be done. Mitchell and Sarah, Anchorage, Alaska, 217,000 paid

off in 3 years, making 100 to 172. And

you know how they did it? They decided to. They got on the same page, decided to work together and know their why.

Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

[Applause] >> Wow.

You know, it's amazing the number of times we talk to someone that a change of scenery is not an option for them.

And sometimes it's the most healthy possible thing. >> Yeah, it's absolutely right.

[Music] Heat. Heat.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

Lauren is with us in Toronto, Ontario.

Hi, Lauren. How are you?

>> Hi. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I'm trying to decide whether to buy or lease a car. My husband leases his

car. Um, I currently own mine. Um, and

so I'm used to not having monthly car payments. Um, my husband thinks I should

lease because we can write it off through our business. Um, I would prefer

to buy. Um, but of course it would take

out of our savings that we have. So, yeah, I'm just trying to decide which route to go.

>> Okay. Well, it's it's quite often that I

get to tell the wife that she is right and her husband is wrong because that happens a lot and this is one of those wonderful cases. So, but let me give you the actual backup. Your husband's so wrong. It's unbelievable how wrong he is. >> He's not just a little bit wrong. He's like really wrong. Okay. Uh including

when he did it. So, let's walk through how our write off works. What is your tax rate in Canada? I know you guys get taxed a lot more than we do and we get killed. >> Oh, yeah. It's in the 40s. 40%.

>> So, you pay 40%. I thought it was 65.

>> It's closer to where um

Yeah, it's about 45.

>> Okay. All right. So, >> yeah, >> if you spend in your business >> a deductible expense, >> $10,000 >> as an expense and it goes on your P&L as an expense. It reduces your income by

$10,000, >> right? >> And so that is the tax write off that people talk about. All right?

>> Okay. And so what that saves you, let's say you didn't do that and instead you had that $10,000 worth of income, the taxes on that $10,000 would be $4,500 on

a 45% bracket, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so when you spend $10,000 that

you don't need to spend

>> Yeah. in order to be to call it sophisticated and do a write off. You've traded a dollar for4.

>> Okay. >> Bad trade.

>> Yeah.

>> Got it. >> Okay. >> It's kind of like I gave an extra $10,000 to the church and I saved the I can write that off as a charitable deduction, I assume, in Canada. Correct.

>> Okay. If I give $10,000 extra to the church and I save the tax, I get to give the gift, which is good, and I save $4,500 on taxes, but it costs me 6,500

net.

>> Yeah. >> In order to give that gift. So, I would never look at someone and go, "Oh, I give to charity because I get the tax write off." >> Because that would be a stupid statement. >> Yeah. >> Because you're trading 10,000 for400.

That's not sophisticated in any math.

And that's what your husband is saying when he says, "Oh, no. We should lease the cars and piss the money away so that

we can take the ride off and act like we're sophistic." No, you're you're trading a dollar for4, >> right? Yeah. And um one of his arguments

is that well you can lease a new car so it's always within warranty and then you don't have to worry about maintenance.

>> Yeah. And then the other argument would be new cars lose 60 to 70% of their value in the first four years. So that's stupid.

>> Yeah, >> man. This guy's just he's just losing all the way around. You're just killing him here. It's awful.

So nobody wise people do not spend money on their business and trade a dollar for4 and call it sophisticated.

>> Okay. >> The only time you would do that is when you're actually getting a return on the investment, not buying a depreciating asset or a super duper depreciating asset called a new car.

>> So no, this is just dumb dumb dumb. It's

rationalization cuz he likes the car.

>> That's right.

He just wanted to buy the car and he tried to figure out some way to posture and act like it's smart. And then by the time you get through doing the math, you look not only not smart, you look just plain dumb. So no, don't do it. Don't do

it. Don't do it. So moral of the story, Lauren, is listen to Lauren. She's smart.

And you didn't even know the math. You just had a bad feeling about it. I don't want to be in debt. I don't want to be in debt just to call it a write-off. and don't go in debt just to call it a write-off because it's dumb. The math doesn't work. They never give you a hundred cents on your dollar ever in a tax write-off. There's no such thing.

So, no, we just don't do those deals.

Not ever. Marissa's in Houston. Hey, Marissa. What's up?

>> Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken.

>> Hey. >> Uh my qu my question for y'all today is my husband and I are paying off our debts. We have about $85,000 in debt uh

not including our mortgage. Um as we take the baby steps on, we're slowly paying off um like um a Pelaton as well

as a mattress. They're both 0% interest.

>> Wow. >> And then after that, we have >> You guys just buy everything, don't you?

You financed your mattress and the thing you hang your clothes on, the Pelaton.

Oh my gosh.

>> Hey, we use it. But anyway, the truck um

is a 2021 F-150 and we owe 26,000 on it.

Um that is at a 2.99 interest rate.

>> Uh but actually I know we can pay those off slowly and snowball them um the payments, but my next question is we actually have a heliloc worth about $47,000.

>> What's your household income?

We make, let's see,

$15,000 a month.

>> Okay. Marissa, um, please don't justify

staying in debt by having low interest rates. >> Yes, sir. >> And you've been giving me your interest rates as you went along like they were some kind of bragging rights on a pelaton.

>> Okay. So, no, let's just say this

consumer debt, including the truck and the HELOC, is stupid and we need to clear it all up because the faster we clean all that up, the faster we're going to be in a position to really build serious wealth.

>> Well, and the main question we have is the house we're in now, we've lived in since 2017. It's a great house, but we have three boys and we are quickly outgrowing it. So, we know that we're not going to be in this home for the long term and plan on moving actually in the next two to three years. So, >> you need to get out of debt before you do.

Correct. Of course. >> Okay. >> But where we're stuck is we're trying to figure out if once we pay off the truck and pay off the other two consumer debts, >> then are we going to then pay towards the HELOC and get that completely paid off?

>> Yes.

When you sell your home, >> when you sell your home with a heliloc knot on it, they're going to give you a check that's $40,000 larger cuz it doesn't have a helock on it, >> right? >> So, you are saving the money. It's just buried in your equity, >> right? Well, we just knew since we're going to be moving in the next two to three years, >> you're not hearing me. You're going to get the money.

>> Yes, I understand. >> Okay. So, don't kick the can down the road and act like everything's No, just get rid of the stinking debt. And then when you sell the house, they're going to write you a check and you got the same down payment you would have had as if you didn't pay off the helock and had the money in savings, >> okay?

>> Exact same down payment, >> okay? >> Because it's exact same $40,000. It still works that way both ways.

So, Ken, a rule of thumb on uh second mortgages is if they're less than half your annual income, and at 15,000 a month, this is definitely less than half their annual income. Um, and 40,000 being the amount, then we put that in baby step two. If it's a huge HELOC or

whatever second mortgage we want to call it, then we put it over there in baby step six and pay it off with the mortgages. In which case, we would have done what she said to do, which is wait until the house sells or refinance or whatever you're going to do and get rid of it. Um, by the way, these rates are

coming down. We're sitting at 5 and a half right now on 15-year fix. And so, if you're sitting on a 6% first mortgage

and you've got a big second mortgage, it probably be a good time to refi and roll them together and get you a five and a half on the whole puppy. Now, if you're sitting on a 2% first mortgage, probably not going to want to roll that in and do a refi. Okay? But if you're sitting on a 2% mortgage, it's 20,000 and you have a $200,000 second mortgage at 10%.

Great time to refi and get rid of that. So start running your numbers at this five and a half number on your first and second. And does it make net net sense to get a new first mortgage at a lower interest rate cumulative interest rate, right? A weighted average interest rate over the thing.

And it pro it may for some of you that are sitting on that.

Heat.

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Heat.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Coleman Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today. Steve is in

Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Steve. How are you?

>> Real good, thank you.

>> Good. How can we help, sir?

>> Okay. Uh, my wife and I are on baby step seven. >> Mhm. >> And we have three children. Our 16-year-old is very eager to work, make

money, but he looks at more of buying

things online and then reselling as his

job. And we keep pushing for him to get

a job. How else do we go about this to help him see the importance of actually going to a job? Or are we looking at it wrong?

Has he has he been able to actually do this with his own money, buy something and then flip it?

>> So he Yes, he over the years he's mowed

we pay well at home. Um so I mean he he's stocked up a lot of money, but now

he sees it as an online avenue is better for him to make money with his time.

>> Is he actually proving out his theory?

Does he make money with his time?

Unfortunately, I I don't feel he does.

And I might be just too too overcasting on it, >> my wife and I. But we just don't see as No. >> Okay. We talked to a 19year-old the other day that had a million dollars.

>> No. No. We're talking maybe $10 he might

make off of a pair of shoes if he buys and resells them. Maybe. >> And if he does, but does he do that 15 times a month or one time a year?

>> Uh once once a It's like It's like he goes in spurts. >> Okay. every I I I would meet both of you in this and say all right number one my job as your dad is to make sure that you have

extreme work ethic because people that

do not work do not succeed

>> correct >> that's my job as your dad and I'm going to do my job even if it causes you great discomfort >> yes >> this is the kind of discussion I've had with mine when they were that age okay and then so the bad news is that the good news is I'm going to help you. So now, if your job is

being an entrepreneur and you're using your online skills that are native to you as a 16-year-old that the old man doesn't understand, that's fine. But you are running a business and now let's talk about I'm going to coach you in how to run a business. So a business has a profit and loss statement. And if you're running a business and you make a dollar an hour, your business is failing.

>> Yeah. Because you could have been working a jo o for somebody else and making $20 an hour.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, but if your business is making $100 an hour and you're working 40 hours, I'm going to get excited about your entrepreneurial spirit and your business acumen that we're building because we're going to run a P&L and we're going to see do you actually make a profit on this crap or do you have an online hobby and you're substituting that for work?

>> Yes, I think it's where we're going.

>> Yeah. I think >> Well, I I don't care. In other words, I'm going to prove to him that this is not his job.

>> Okay. >> By the fact that he's not making any freaking money when I make him do a proper profit and loss statement on this and start tracking his sales.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. So, how many items did you sell this month and what did you pay for those items and what did the collective group sell for? And the difference is called your profit. >> Yeah. >> You have cost of goods sold in a business, my son. That's how entrepreneurism works.

Is it correct to tell him when you do profit, put the profits off to the or put your actual money that you spent, keep that because you got to pay yourself back. Yep. And then keep his profits separate. >> Yeah. You have to at least take your cost of goods sold and put it back in.

>> Otherwise, you run out of inventory money. >> Yes. >> And so, let's let's say let's say he sells $4,000 worth of items and his cost in those items was $1,000. So, he made $3,000 this month. I would call that very successful for a teenager. >> That is. Yes. >> Okay. If he did that, we would take the,000 that he paid for those items out

of the $4,000 and put it into next month's inventory.

>> Yes. >> Or a little more, 1,500 cuz maybe we can grow this thing. >> Yeah. >> But we're not going to just take the $4,000 and bank it or blow it >> and then have no inventory for next month. What we're what I'm saying is is if part of me teaching you work ethic is to also teach you some business principles and encourage your entrepreneurial spirit, I'm willing to do that. I am not willing and you are not, as a person that lives under my roof, going to kid yourself and burn a

bunch of activity, make no money, and call that a job.

>> Yeah, >> that's an illusion. And I meet adults that have not learned that. But you got the opportunity to have this young man under your wing and teach him some entrepreneurial skills. >> Yeah, Steve, I want to make sure Dave just gave you great advice. I want to give you some tactical things to do here. You've got to lean in with your kid and you've got to push him to do what he's doing now better and see if he

can make it bigger before you poo poo this. And I'm not getting on you, but your your posture as you started the call. And by the way, I've been there, so I'm not not not getting on you, but make sure you heard what Dave said >> before you push him to something else.

Push him to do this really well. Which means you got to know the numbers better. And you barely know because I think the whole concept to you is probably a bit foreign and you're a little irritated by it. And I think you're going to get him, you're going to have more effect doing what Dave told you to do if you lean in first. If I can

teach my kids, if I can teach my kids to be entrepreneurs successfully, >> yeah, >> they're going to do better than if I teach them to get a job. >> And I was just going to suggest something as you push him. Why don't you invest a little bit? Go, hey, and I'm making this up. Get do your homework.

Get in it with the kid. Do some do some of your own homework on kids that are doing this well. But let's say it, let's use the shoe example. And I'm not telling you to do this. This is an example. I might go, "Hey, I'm going to give you x amount of dollars and I'm going to invest in you. because I want to see if you're serious about this. So, I'm your investor. I'm going to buy five pairs of shoes for you and you're going

to sell those and based on what I've learned, what you're telling me, you should make this on the shoes and and walking through that like Dave was telling you because now you're teaching them about investors, you're teaching him about a lot of things and let's put some positive pressure on this instead of negative. That's the only thing I wanted to share because I think you end up >> amazing how you shared that. I like that.

positive that we actually reveal if he is just scamming you and he's just trying to come up with an excuse not to go pick up a shovel. >> And >> under all of this is he's feeling your

strength to force him into character-based Yeah.

>> decisions because that's how he becomes a man.

Thank you. I appreciate that.

>> Yeah, he's not. And so what you don't want to do is say all all things that are online and entrepreneurial are bad.

It because it it always makes me laugh.

I remember my grandmother my grandpa worked for Alcoin for 38 years. He had a job >> cuz he went broke in the Great Depression and never wanted to be unstable again. And my grandmother tied into that same emotion. So getting a job was a big deal for them. They were get a job people. And so I'm self-employed.

And the day I got the call from the publisher that I had sold my 1 millionth

book, the first book, Financial Peace, my grandmother called me and she said, "You know, I was praying for you this morning. I'm worried about you. I really think you need to think about getting a job, you know, and you don't want to be that, you know, that that's that's a cute story, but you don't even want to be that. You just so I want to encourage his entrepreneurism, but only if it's not an illusion.

I don't want to encourage delusional thought. So, let let's turn this into money, baby. And you prove yourself. You prove your idea. And if not, you be

working at Chick-fil-A saying, "It's my pleasure.

[Music]

[Music]

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Jess is in Rochester. Hi, Jess. How are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my husband and I are in baby step 2 and we are struggling with managing the cash flow of our budget. Maybe it's because a portion of his pay is irregular, but usually at some point in the beginning of the month, we have to pull from our baby step one to cover the

bills so that they're not late. And then the next paycheck, we can replenish our savings. But I was just wondering how we fix this so that we don't need to dig into our baby step one savings every month.

>> Probably a shortage of income. What is he making?

Um well I guess gross our W2 for the

month income is 7,800 and then gross

spiff income for him that your regular income is about 2200 but it varies. We

don't really know. And >> so you can't make it on $10,000 a month.

>> Well so our minimum to run the household is 8,000 >> pray.

Um, so our mortgage is 2400

and I guess the next biggest thing would be our son's school is 1,700

and then just utilities, food, transportation, all that adds up to $8,000.

>> No, it doesn't. Unless you have a $1,200

car payment.

uh our car payments combined or I have

um credit card debt, car payments, and

>> how much credit card debt do you have?

>> 8,000. >> And how much do you owe on these cars?

>> Uh 15,000 on the RAV 4, 20,000 on a GMC

Terrain, and then 73,000 on student

loans.

>> Okay.

All right. How many children do you have?

>> One. >> Are you working outside the home?

>> Yes, I'm an accountant.

>> Okay. So, your total household income is $10,000 a month.

>> Yes.

>> But you can't make it on $10,000 a month even with what you've described to me.

>> Well, we can. It's I guess it's the timing of the bills that are a struggle.

So, I keep digging into the savings and

then replenishing it. Um, >> yeah. I don't think you're doing a monthly budget, are you?

>> Uh, I have my Excel spreadsheet.

>> Yeah, that's what I thought. You need to get on the Every Dollar app and lay out a proper budget where every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and you pre plan the cash flow so that

it doesn't get backwards on you and you

say, "Okay, what's going to wait on his bonus check at the end of the month?" And then of course ultimately you build margin into this and you flip it to where his bonus for this month is covering stuff for next month instead of last month.

>> But that's going to be done by mar that's going to be done by getting margin and and and under control.

>> I also have I mean y'all have done some ridiculous purchases.

>> I can tell that you spend a lot. So are

are you guys staying out of restaurants?

>> No, you're not. Okay. All right. All right. I didn't think so. So, um, >> we're trying to >> Yeah, you're not though. You're not. So, >> what are the combined car payments?

>> It's 15,000 and >> Yeah, but I'm just looking the What's the monthly bills right there on the two car payments every month?

>> A,000.

>> That's insanity.

>> Yeah, but I mean, I think you could get them all paid off, but you're going to have to get the other side of this and create some margin. And you don't have margin in this budget. Um and and it's

kind of ridiculous that you don't on 120,000. So um that's where that's where

you've got to get to. So you got to increase your income and decrease your outgo. And the spread is how you clean up the debt mess instead of spending every stinking dime you make every stinking month and spinning your wheels because you start to lose hope because you feel like a rat in a wheel.

>> Yes, 100%.

>> Yeah, that that's the problem. And that it's scary. I understand. So, um,

you know, um,

>> yeah, I feel like I'm just always behind. I'm I'm just I'm >> No, see, there's not, let me change the

word. It's not I, it's we.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. The two of you sit down tonight and lay out an every dollar budget for the upcoming month. The two of you sit down tonight and say, "Okay, why can't we live on 10 freaking thousand?" And look at it together and start asking yourself the question, "What has to be cut? Number one, you need to not go on vacation. Number two, you need to stay out of restaurants unless you're working there as your extra job to get your income up." Okay, that's it. And then we

burn our lifestyle to the ground. If that doesn't work, we start selling cars.

>> Okay? and get rid of these debts because I've got to create a,000 to $2,000 worth of margin in this to start reducing these debts rather than just spinning our wheels. And you're not going to do that a without a plan and b without cutting spending and probably see increasing your income somewhere. You probably could pick up some side gigs on accounting that you could do quote spare time unquote uh evenings after the baby's asleep, whatever.

Uh it's tax time here right now. You got a bunch of filings and stuff going on right this second. Uh, probably too late on that one actually, but um, you know, whatever you can do around Christmas, whatever he can do to pick up and just, you know, if you picked up a couple grand a month and use that, let's get rid of the credit card debt and then let's get rid of the car debt and now we start to have some margin and then then we can knock off that student loan debt and work that debt snowball smallest to largest in that order.

And um, but you can't even talk about doing that right now because you're you're just borrowing from Peter to pay Paul each month.

So, but I think the first thing is you're going to cut your lifestyle and get on a detailed plan. Both of those things will make you feel like you got a raise and that's going to flip this over. But, so you're about 10 to 15% of

intensity that you have to turn up.

You're not This is not an intellectual exercise. This is an emotional exercise.

It's I'm so pissed off. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. And that's what gets you out. That's what gets you out. Orlando is in El Paso. Hi,

Orlando. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm I'm doing good. I'm breathing. My family's breathing. I'm blessed. >> That's a good thing. >> How are you? >> It's a good start. How can we help?

>> Well, I've got a bit of a question. We

um I just recently paid off my house

property.

>> Um Yes, sir. And um I'm thinking of um

doing a equity loan or a heliloc

on the property to build a um to build

another house and sell it for profit.

And um so I I don't know. I mean it's kind of scary.

>> Yeah, it should be >> wondering if that's a good idea or not.

>> No, it's not a good idea. It should scare you to the point you don't do it.

>> You just worked to get your house paid off. Now you're going to roll the dice on your personal home and hope you hit red.

Hope you hit craps. No, I'm not doing that. Not a chance. I love the idea of flipping houses with cash, but not cash from your home.

No, no, no. Please, please, please. In I

mean, you felt a different kind of peace the day you paid it off and now you're want to step back into the land of anxiety and right back into the bear trap. Um, and you said, "I'm kind of scared." That's what tell And so you >> Yeah. You you you recognize your body physically feels >> different when you pay off your house.

And now you're want to put that tension back between your shoulder blades. No.

>> Yeah. >> Please don't do that.

>> Please, please, please get off that tic-tac site, that get-richquick real estate, whatever you're reading. Get away from that. It's going to cause you pain, my man. And we love you. We don't want that to happen to you. I'd love for you to do some house flips in the future with the money that you pile up since you don't have a house payment anymore and do it with cash, but not with borrowed money on your personal residence once you finally got it paid off. That makes my that makes my head

hurt. Oh my gosh.

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in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtfree stage. Brent and Paulie are

with us. Hey guys, how are you?

>> Hey Dave. >> Dave. Hi Ken. >> Hey Ken. >> Welcome. Where you guys live? >> I've been to Oregon. >> Fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thank you. >> Little bit of a haul to get over here and do your debtree scream. We're glad you're here. >> Just a little bit. >> It's beautiful. >> How Yeah. Thank you. We're honored to have you. How much debt did you guys pay off? >> 286,452.

Dave, >> way to go, guys. Excellent. How long did this take? >> 6 years. 6 months. >> Good for you. I love it. And your range of income during that six years to 6 months? >> 108,000 up to 170,000.

>> 170. >> 170. >> Oh, wow. Good. And what what do you all do for a living? Uh, I am a NDT radiographer, Dave.

>> And I work in accounts receivable for a digital marketing tech company.

>> Very cool. Good for you guys. Well done.

And the kind of debt, the 286. What kind of debt? >> Uh, 56,452 was two cars, a boat, and our two phones. >> Oh, wow. >> And then 230,000 was our house. >> Oh, boy. >> Looking at weird people.

>> I love it. Congratulations.

>> It's finally done. Well done. How old are you two? >> Uh I'm 41. >> Wow. >> And I'm going to be 40 in May.

>> And you have a paid for house.

>> We do. We do. >> Wow. That's so cool.

>> What's the house worth? >> Um Zillow tells us 550, but I know what

we could get it for if we put it on the market. >> Mhm. >> So, probably right around six.

>> That sounds right. >> Yeah, >> sounds about right. We know Zillow is not accurate. >> Exactly. >> All right. And uh Man, that's so cool.

How much in your retirement nestics? Uh, we're roughly probably right around 860,000. >> Wow. So, you're 40year-old baby steps millionaires with a paid for house.

>> Yeah. Oh, excuse me. Excuse me. That's with the house.

>> With Oh, so you're heading to baby steps million almost, but not quite >> by next year, Dave. >> Got it. Okay. Yeah.

Well, I mean, stock market shoots up there a little bit. Yeah. Just like that. So, there you go.

There you go. >> Way to go, guys. Pretty. How does it feel to be almost millionaires and 40 years old with a paid for house?

>> Wild. >> It's just It's surreal, Dave. Like it's so hard to explain.

could think how I wanted it to feel and like now that we're here it's like John Deloney always says it's like you have bricks in your backpack and you take them all out. It's finally we've set all those bricks out of our backpack and down it's just we're free.

>> Yeah. >> Huge sigh. >> I love that. All right. So, what what was the catalytic moment or was it a series of things that makes you guys go, "Hey, we're doing this and not only are we getting rid of the debt, we're going all the way and paying the house off." >> Right. Exactly. So, for us, it was we we kind of thought about the answer to that question because we listen every day.

And there was no aha moment, tragic life

event, nothing like that happened. It was actually kind of more of a conversation that we just randomly had.

I work from home, so I'm listening to the podcast all day, which is great, but

kind of, you know, he comes home one day and we start chatting about it and we both kind of, we're very competitive people. You should see us play Monopoly.

And we looked at each other and we're like, do how quick do you think we could actually do this or is it even a thing do you think we could actually do? And I am the nerd of the family. And so I immediately got into my spreadsheets and started, you know, color coding, putting our pays, putting how much, you know, margin we have. And it was off to the races truly at that point. And we were like, let's see if we can do this.

>> So no big argument really.

>> No, we don't argue.

>> She's always right. >> Only at Monopoly.

>> We don't argue. She's always right.

>> Yeah. >> No, he was ready. Like we were ready to roll. >> How long had you been married at that point? Um, right at six and a half

years. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, now you're 13 years. >> 13 years next month. Okay. Wow. Okay.

Very cool. >> Good for you. Oh, wow. That's cool.

>> It's very exciting. >> That's a good way to get at it, though. So, it was more kind of a >> begins almost with an intellectual curiosity spurred by the podcast.

>> Yes. >> And you said, I wonder if that works for us. >> 100%. Well, and Dave and also like I look at like we made a fairly decent income starting off and I looked at our paycheck every two weeks and at the end of the month it's like man we're making this much money and we were fleece people. We enjoyed the new vehicles.

Totally >> and it's like I mean why are we doing

what we're doing? It's we had like I said a great income and it's like it's just getting taken away and taken away to nothing. To what? Just so you can show people you have a nice car.

>> They got caught up in that. how much is the payment >> game that so many people including you know people that we know very closely it's oh well what's the payment you can afford it what's the payment and we got caught up in that and it was something that we were like why why are we doing this like you know just for a piece of metal that's sitting in the driveway you know >> we called it our yard arnament

>> expensive ones yeah >> I love it that's fun well that is cool that you're really what happened is you're you're what you value

uh changed. >> Yes. For a longer term vision that was

uh less than the shallowness of just having a nice car. >> Yep. >> Very much so. We wanted that. We wanted to wake up and just breathe and not work. At one point, I had like the other couple that was up here. I had three jobs. He was working non-stop overtime.

It just we were we're just like why why are we doing this with our precious little life we have? >> Yeah. Exactly. It goes fast and end up working your whole life for somebody else if you're not careful. >> It felt like we were working our whole life for the last six years. >> Yeah. >> So, off to work I go. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Good for you guys. Who was cheering you on? >> Definitely our parents. We have amazing sets of parents. His parents have a paid off home and have been a huge huge inspiration for us. My parents have cheered us on. Amazing amazing friends.

>> Friends. Yeah. >> How did you find the podcast originally?

boredom. To be honest, um >> if you type in boredom, we come up.

>> No, >> that's what everybody wants to hear.

>> I was bored and I'm like I honestly just truly was looking for something to listen to that was inspiring and came across it and binged it for, like I said, I got got sent home to work from home during Corona years and just started binging it and it was to this day it's the first thing I listen to right when I have my coffee till the show's over. So, >> Wow. Yeah. >> God bless you for putting up with us.

>> I know, >> Dave. It's one thing. The rest of us, I don't know how you do it. >> It's hard sometimes, but hey, not

surprised. That's why I apologized.

>> Uh, what what what's the key? What would

you tell people the key to this whole thing is? >> Get your butt to work.

>> Oh, I like that. >> Yeah. My alarm would go off at 1:00 a.m.

every morning. And I'd start work anywhere between 1:45, 2, and then I

didn't get off till 3:30, 4:00. And I

would do that five four days a week. And then on Fridays, I'd go in and work six hours. And then we had our side hustle that we would uh >> we'd get we would get furniture and we

would turn around and paint furniture and sell them. >> Anything on the side of the road was mine. >> If you look at the some of our photos that we have, that's our garage. >> Oh wow. >> At one time we had 42 dressers in our garage. >> Furniture store in the kitchen. Took it over. No room for anything.

kind of like our end result.

>> So, this is going to inspire some people real fast. Give us one example of how much you paid for a piece of furniture and how much you flipped it for.

>> So, she got one off the side of the road actually for free, right? And we put on a trailer, took it home, and she I think she ended up selling it for $750.

>> Come on. >> It's a beautiful Drexel vintage. I mean, you know. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Cruising around the rich end of town. See who put something on the curb.

>> I see it. I'm like, "Babe, get in the car." >> It was 6:30. It was 6:30 in the morning one morning. She jumps out off the couch with coffee and she's like, "We got to go. We got to go. There's a dresser on the street." And we went and grabbed it.

>> Somewhere in bin, they're going, "Oh, I put that out there for the furniture. Got to come by, pick it up, repair it.

You stole it." >> I'm kidding. I'm kidding. >> No. Only Only Legal for you.

>> I know. Good job.

>> Thanks. >> Excellent work, you guys. Excellent work. I'm proud of you guys. Thank you.

Very cool. Good for you. Work, work, work, work, work, work, and get on that every dollar budget. Here we go.

>> Yes. >> Yep. >> All right. It's Brent and Polly Bend,

Oregon. $286,000

paid off in 6 and 12 years, making 108 to1 170. Their secret was coming together, being unified, work, work, work, work, work, live on less than we make, and steal dressers from people's front yards. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

Yeah.

Wow.

You know, Ken, I knew we'd had a lot of listenership growth, but I had no idea that it was because when you type in boredom, we come up. >> Well, we'll take them however we can get them.

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scripture of the day, James 1:12.

Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him. Jos Billings said, "Be

like a postage stamp. Stick to one thing until you get there." >> That's pretty good. >> Half our audience has no idea what a postage stamp is. >> That's true.

That's true. Top questions people have about online wills. How do I know if I need a trust or a will? Well, if you've got a large estate, something north of a million dollars, you may need an actual attorney to do the will for you, and you might need a trust at that point, but it's certainly got to be north of a million, probably north of 5 million before you even worry about that kind of thing.

When do I need to start my online will or what do I need?

Who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your children that are minors? And who do you

want to make decisions for you if your health goes and you're incapacitated?

the healthc care power of attorney. Is an online will legally valid? Of course.

But you need to know that all wills are state law, not federal law. So when you

leave one state and go to another to live, your old will is invalid.

You need a will done according to your state's laws. And um the proper signatures or notaries or whatever is needed and the components of the will itself are different from stateto state.

And so it's very important to get one that's state specific. So go to ramiesolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. It's a free wills quiz and we'll start to learn about this stuff and get that taken care of. It's what grown-ups do. Matthews in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi Matthew. How are you?

>> Father Dave. Hey Ken. How are you today gentlemen? better than we deserve. How can we help? >> Awesome. Just have a quick question for you. Um I'm quite entrepreneurial in spirit and um uh one year ago I

unfortunately had to close a business and was advised to declare chapter 7 personally just to protect myself from some of the dotted lines I have my name on. >> Did you? >> Um I did. Yeah. Uh in early December of

2024. >> Wow. Um >> yeah, it was definitely uh a fantastic learning experience for me. Um I have

since pivoted and and been saving as much money as I can and paying down some of the uh uh accounts that were associated with that business closer just out of a moral. Um, and I am due a

a bonus quite soon uh at my current position and I already have about $12,000 in savings. And I just kind of wanted to see if you recommend debt snowballing uh you know some of the past

new stuff associated with the business or or how do you associate you know non-personal debt but if you're paying stuff off where there's a variance of different things?

Well, it was personal debt when it was in the business because they didn't loan your business money. You had personal signatures on all of it. That's why you filed Chapter 7.

>> That's fair. That is correct. >> And so now you don't have any debt legally legally speaking.

>> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. And you're saying that you want to go back and pay back the bankrupted debt.

>> Yeah. As much as I possibly can. Just as a a small business operator. right now I I owed some small businesses, you know,

AP accounts and and stuff like that. So,

just a just a I've never taken money from anyone. So, uh you know, just

>> how much how much is involved if we total all those accounts?

>> Uh about 187.

>> Okay. All right. >> Is all of it associated with the business? >> Okay. And you're making what kind of money now?

>> Uh 130. >> Okay. Good for you. All right. Are you married?

>> Uh, no, sir. >> Okay. All right. Well, if you Here's the

thing. You do not legally owe the money.

And I would only tell you to go and pay it back if you feel like God's telling you to do that. In other words, this is a moral, spiritual tug on your heart.

Um, I do not think that is required to

be ethical. Um, >> okay. I did do what you're doing on my bankruptcy 10 years later.

>> Okay. >> But it was not it was it was not because I felt like I morally owed the money and it was not because I felt like I ethically owed the money because I'm pretty sure I didn't. I was the laws of the United States allowed me to file bankruptcy on the debts. Um I had repaid already 90% of it before we went bankrupt anyway. Um, and I was forced

out by craziness the on the other side

of the discussion. Um,

but I did wake up very very clearly

knowing uh one of the one of the few

times in my life I'm 100% sure God told me to do something. And in my case, and it might be because I'm on the microphone doing this, but in my case, God told me to go back and pay everybody, >> not just the small ones, but everybody.

And so, and that was a trip. I got to tell you, it took about six months to convince people to take money that they had not thought about in a decade,

>> you know, particularly bankers because it wasn't their money.

>> And it created it created like work for them to put this on the books and they didn't want to do their job and stuff.

So, it was weird. But, um, I did do it.

Uh, uh, and I don't talk about it much.

I don't brag about it because it's not relevant because I'm not going to impugn that on everyone else. I felt like that was a directive to Dave Ramsey. I'm not sure if that's a directive to

Matthew, but I would tell you if you felt that strongly, you know, from a spiritual perspective, you should go do it. And uh I also would tell you there's no hurry.

>> Okay? >> You don't have any money, you make 130,000, >> you don't have any money, you make 130,000, you're talking about 187,000, it's going to take a while, >> right?

>> By the time I got there, I had the money in one account to write a check and do it. It also took close to a decade to talk my wife into it, but um she wasn't going to ever pay them back because she knew what they did to us. She knew how they treated us >> and she's still mad 35 years later. But

um don't make a hillbilly woman mad. I'm just saying that's the moral of the story. But anyway, the Yeah, but that's,

you know, again, I I I hesitate to tell that because I don't always want I don't want other people to impugn it as >> my actions are a principle of ethics or a principle spiritually. So, if he decides, he was asking, "Does he >> do the debt snowball?" No, I would just take I would do it one debt at a time in full. >> Yeah. >> Because the debt snowball is you pay minimum payments on everything but the little one.

You're not paying any payments on these. And so, I just list them smallest to largest. When I had enough to knock out the little one, I'd call them up and go, "Hey, feel like God told me to pay you and I'm going to run the check over for that $13,400 that I owe you and here I'm going to drop it by." And uh I did do some of that.

the reactions were very interesting. I can imagine >> they were very weird in some cases.

>> Some people are like, "Nah, don't worry about it." I'm like, "Yeah, well, I'm too late. I'm already worried about it." So, and then others are like, "Oh, it's $13,422.13.

Are you going to include the interest?" You know, it's like people all kinds of different reactions. >> That's >> instead of like, I can't believe you're doing this 10 years later. >> But yeah, anyway, so list them smallest to largest >> and knock out one at a time incomplete.

And in in most CAA in other cases, if someone was doing this and they had a bunch of debt that they were behind on, we'd be settling these one at a time, but these are settled. So, we don't need to go ask for a discount on these. You if you feel like you're supposed to pay it, I just go pay it.

>> Yeah. >> And just do them one at a time. It's going to take you a little while, though. >> You know, I loved about what he said is, you know, a lot of them were small businesses, and I love the sentiment there. And I think uh I think God will honor that. I do. I do think that he doesn't have to and I agree, but I I think that spirit is really really good.

Well, it's a um

>> yeah, it's hard it's in things like that it's hard to know exactly how to feel, but but the uh >> but you can never go wrong leaning towards integrity, >> right? >> Or extreme integrity or >> weird fanatical integrity. Uh you know, no one's ever mad when you do that, >> right? Um well most I don't no one but very few are very few are.

So yeah it's um yeah it's a process. So yeah very interesting very interesting and Matthew you're a good man to at least be thinking about that.

>> Make sure you got your emergency fund in place. You're avoiding personal new debt of any kind. And then as you have excess

money apply it to this program. Not

scrimping and saving. It's not debt snowball like Gazelle Intensity. Um, it's just as I've got some excess money, maybe I've even got some investing going on. And I'm going to put 50% towards investing and 50% towards this program of my excess money. >> Also love that he went back to work for somebody else. Swallowed his pride. He's being productive. He's not licking his wounds and trying another entrepreneurial venture. I love that.

Great character. That puts us the Ramsay Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 253. You Can’t Afford To Be Careless With Money | October 2, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:05:26 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD in counseling, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, one of our most popular shows on the Ramsey Network, is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

Jay is in Massachusetts. Hi Jay, how are you? >> Good, thank you. Thanks for taking my call today. >> Sure. What's up? >> Well, I'm wondering if I should keep a

certain amount of cash at my house. Um, I had something that came up several months ago. Um, somebody asked me to transfer some money. I opened up my app, my Bank of America app, and everything read zero, all my accounts. And I'm looking at it, I'm saying, well, maybe this is just, you know, I can transfer it anyway. And I tried and it says insufficient funds. And so I call them and I'm on hold for 25 minutes. And then

it hangs up on me. I try calling back and it's busy like the rest of the world's trying to call them at the same time. And finally after about 45 minutes, it it reset itself. And I'm like, I didn't have any money. What if I really needed money and I couldn't get access to that?

>> Well, the problem is not whether you have cash at home. The problem is you're dealing with the world's worst bank.

>> Bank of America sucks

as you have discovered, my friend. So, yeah, you need to get with a small town local bank or a good credit union like Fairwinds Credit Union and um then somebody will actually answer the freaking phone on the other end. But Bank of America is they're they're robotic and ridiculous. No, I wouldn't.

The best thing you can do is stay away from them. Like way away. Now, let's go back though. Can you keep Should you keep cash at home? You can't keep enough cash at home to sustain life if the

entire banking system collapsed and you could never access your money again, right? I mean, so there's not enough cash for that. Besides that, cash probably won't work if that's happened because there's probably something else going on, too. You'll probably just need bullets and water and gasoline at that point. But, um, you know, so I mean, it's like survival stuff, right?

Prepping stuff, that kind of thing. So, but do you want to keep some cash at home just for access? Yeah. I mean, what's the biggest possible event that if you couldn't if you had that happen again >> that you would want to How much money would you want to lay your hands on? And can you do that safely in your neighborhood in a nice safe inside your home? >> Mhm. How much?

Uh >> I don't know, maybe a th000 to $2,000.

>> Yeah. I mean, and and so if somebody broke in and stole that, it probably doesn't ruin your life.

>> Mhm. >> Right. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And you know, get you a little safe of some kind. I've got a little safe. I throw I'm a redneck. I've always got a thousand bucks in my pocket. That's redneck emergency fund, right? 10 10 10 Uncle Ben, right? Just to say I can. And um and so that you know, I need to replenish those after tips sometimes.

And so I've got a little stack in a little safe. Nothing nothing dramatic, but um >> it just keeps uh makes it a little harder. But if somebody stole all of it, it really wouldn't change my life. And this wouldn't change your life. Would I tell you to keep, you know, half million dollars in home? No.

>> No, I wouldn't pay you to do that.

>> Sure. >> John John, do you have a half million in your safe? >> Half million nickels. Maybe >> nickels that your grandpa left you.

>> That's right. Yeah. No, Jay, I'm with you, man. And I like I like um I it

here's the thing. Most of the time it's an illusion and I've here's a better

example. I got a buddy who's a worldrenowned nutrition expert and I

told him I was taking some supplement and that I suddenly felt better. He laughed and said, "Well, the science doesn't agree with you, but here's what's more important. The placebo effect. The fact that you took this and you feel better is actually a net benefit.

it. So, I'm going to tell you to keep doing it because there's no harm to it. And so, I know that having cash at my house, honestly, is not going to protect me from the meteorite, but it's going to make me sleep a little bit better. And that is in and of itself is worth having it around, right?

on my door selling something. I like to blow their mind every once in a while. And so, yeah, it's fun to have a little cash around. You can have a good time with that. >> Give them 10 or 12,000.

>> Not that much nickels. Yeah. Here, kid.

Here's a thousand nickels. Carry on.

Right. No, but but I like having a little cash around. But but I'm with you, Dave. Like, you can't have don't have half million dollars.

>> And again, if you're it I it depends on the neighborhood. Depends on who's in and out of your house. And I mean, if you got people coming in there that are helping you or something like that. I don't want to create a temptation for someone or those kinds of things.

So, yeah. Yeah. You know, I I would keep >> it makes me feel better. And yeah, that's okay.

Bank of Americas and so forth. They're just mammoth. I mean Wells Fargo had

200,000 employees commit fraud

employees. I mean to start with you had 200,000 employees but you have 200,000 that I mean that's cray cray. Yeah. just how to put your head around that and then you think they're going to notice you with your $8,000 in your checking account. They don't care. >> This suddenly went to zero, which is your whole world. >> Yeah. And it and it's it's doesn't even show up on their seismograph, right? So, yeah. I No, I I want to deal with uh

enough of a click and mortar that I can get my hands around someone's throat. I mean, get somebody on the phone, but yeah, I want I want my money.

>> I'm still old school, man. And I still like to drive down to the bank, sit with I do. I do. And it drives my wife crazy, but I still like to go down and meet with somebody. And those those uh lobbies are getting smaller and smaller, and the number of the staff is getting smaller and smaller, but I uh I I won't

bank with somebody that I can't walk in and shake their hand. >> Yeah. >> Or that I don't have someone's cell number. Like that's just a that's just a it's my money. And for me, it it it's

how I take care of my kids, man. And I think we are sometimes pretty absent- minded about it. Just throwing it up to whatever whatever online bank has the biggest, you know, the best deal or what. Yeah.

I don't know. For me, it's a big deal and I want to go shake somebody's hand. >> Well, it is why that we have partnered up with and now I've even even expanded the partnership with Fairwinds Credit Union. >> Yeah, dude.

>> That's why because they they're just so cool. I mean, they've even done this thing. I just love this right here. So, they've got a new debit card out with the Ramsay bundle.

On the front of it, it says dead is normal.

>> Now, that's a piece of plastic that says dead is normal. Be weird. I that's my favorite thing ever right there. So, but I mean that's that that there that they are not there to put everybody in debt.

They're there to just take care of folks. >> Take care of folks. Yeah. And that means they're going to answer the phone, right?

>> And by and large, credit unions are really the good place to do that. And by and large, your small town, regional, local bank, that's a good thing to that's a good place to park your money and keep it keep your hands on it. And but you need to be like you said thoughtful about that. Not just >> you don't have to be paranoid or weird or conspiracy theory or anything like that.

Um but that's that >> and I'm a bit of a let like I I know I'm an old soul and I like to go shake someone's hand and and I know that's not a thing anymore but there is this idea just be thoughtful about where you're putting it.

Always remember Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> You're about to say something to get yourself in trouble. >> Yeah. Well, it just it didn't >> America, you just watched Dave Ramsey experience wisdom. >> No, that was just editing. >> Self-editing. >> It was good. It was really good editing.

>> Tell me an old man can't learn. That's awesome. I just I just felt it. I felt it. It was awesome.

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But, you know, you need a good defense and you don't want to buy the wrong kinds of insurance. So, with a Ramsay trusted insurance pro, you'll never have to deal with a sleazy business or slimy salespeople because they're all interviewed, vetted, and coached to make sure that they're market experts by us who have your best interest at heart.

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>> Hey, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, so my fiance and I are getting married in a month. Exactly. So, well, >> congratulations. >> Um, I just have a Thank you. Thank you.

I appreciate it. Um we're excited. Um I have a few questions regarding u just making decisions for our future. Making sure that um you know once we get married we believe in what you guys teach. You know we're a family unit. We want to make sure that us as husband and wife are good as a family before you know we're you know prioritizing our you know extended family at that point. So my question would be I have two-prong question if we have time. My first question would be my my parents have a

um basically a mother-in-law suite. It's a guest house on their property. They live on five acres. We have the opportunity to live there. It's a one-bedroom, oneb house for $250 a month

um for the foreseeable future really. Um

so my first prong question would be what's your opinion on that? I mean, should we think about doing that, saving the money up front? We have a um a pretty good income for our our age.

We're you know both one year out of college and we're 22 and 23. So

>> that has you know nothing you know that

would be a step up for us to only have to >> think you dropped your phone or something. >> Sacrifice our marriage and live too close to my parents. >> I can't wait the last dropped your phone. What happened? Can you speak directly into it again?

>> Yes sir. >> Oh there we go. >> I am stuck. Yes sir. Okay. C

>> can you can you Yeah. Stay Stay with me.

Ask that question again. >> Ask the last part of your question. What' you say?

>> Um I I just asked your opinion on us living that close to my parents for, you know, it it is a um it it is a small

amount to pay, but we don't want to sacrifice, you know, living too close to my parents and possibly, you know, hindering our marriage because we're so close to them. >> It depends on the the question beneath the question. Like it's costing you 250 bucks, but what's the real cost?

If they're going to let you be married and not try to interfere with your life and your mom isn't going to try to like

add a daughter to the people she gets to boss around, including you, then no, I would say go get your own place. If they're going to rent you a place in the back of their five acres and let y'all have your marriage and not require you to come to family dinners every night and all that and they're cutting you a break to get you all launched out, that can be a great idea, >> right? That would be more of the scenario that I think we would fall onto fall under because >> of course you say that it's your parents.

What does she say? >> Yeah. What's wife say? >> Right.

Uh she actually agrees. She she we both agree that we would much rather have our own place. But my parents and you know Haley, my fiance, she gets along with my parents and um I mean they don't have any quarrels or any kind. And you know we both agree.

Yeah.

think it's really important that you and your fiance sit down and say, "Okay, when we move in, we're only going to do one meal a week and we're only going to do this six months. We're only going to do this." Y'all create some boundaries and then be a be if you're going to be a grown man, you're getting married, you're getting your own place. Sit down with your parents and say, "Hey, this is important to us that we establish this. Does this sound cool with y'all?" >> Right?

>> It's the unmet expectations, the the unmet I thought you were going to, but you guys aren't. we're doing this for y'all and why aren't you doing this for us?

>> Right. So, so it's not the proximity, it's it's the not having boundaries and the proximity could be no issue if we set those boundaries and are firm with them. Um Okay. Um >> Yeah. And and you know, the other thing is if they become a problem, just jet.

Yeah. Move.

>> Right. Right. Um, our other our other part with that would be, um, I do have a car payment that I am, you know, heavily thinking about getting out of. Um, I she has a small amount of student loans and like I said, we have a a fairly good income for our >> What is your all's income? You mentioned that twice. >> Um, it it's about 95.

>> Good. Good. That'll be your combined income. >> That would be our combined. Yes, sir.

>> And how old are you? And you're like 24, you said, right? 23. Yeah. Yeah.

>> No, sir. I'm I'm 22. 22. Okay, cool.

Good for y'all. Well done.

>> I do owe 20,000 on my truck. It's worth about 24. Um, and it's about $400 a

month. Uh, but like I said, you know, I

currently live with my parents and she's currently living in that house because she works closer to the city that I live in. Um, but we aren't living together.

But I am paying I'm paying my dad, like I said, a very small amount, $250 a month. And I can afford the $400. But I mean, I've listened to you since I was young, and it was it's just been something on my mind to kind of get that out of the way before I get married and not have that payment. >> Well, you're not going to make it by next week.

>> You say you're getting married next week. >> Next month. >> Month? Yeah. I don't think you're going to pay off 20 grand by next month, are you? >> I I wouldn't, but it's a possibility of selling it and then getting a different vehicle. >> Yeah, you could do that. I mean, that's okay. So you you if you've been listening a long time, you know our general math rule of thumb is don't own vehicles, things with motors and wheels

that add up to more than half your annual income. And so if her car is

25,000, then you're there. And I don't think it is. Um so you know, the second

thing is is if you can't be debtree everything but the house within two years by keeping the car, then the car is too much. And neither of those are true in this case. You could be debtree in a year easy and your truck is less

than half your annual income. But it wouldn't kill you to sell it and get a $4,000 truck. It's paid for and y'all start your life fresh and just start stacking cash, man. Just start stacking cash and start talking about buying a house in a year and a half or two years and see how big a big old pile of money you can make because you're driving a lesser truck.

Um, and that won't kill you. Either one is okay. You're Neither one is going to stunt your financial growth substantially, but um you know what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? Uh I'd probably sell the truck personally, but it's not it's not like you're in the stupid column if you don't.

I've done the I did the exact thing when I was a few years into being married. Sold the truck and had to take a check to to the to the title company because I was underwater on it. But I just I wanted to be clear of it. So, >> you know what I would do is this.

>> It's a good call. >> You don't need to make the decision right now with all this other stuff swimming around. Let's just get married,

get settled in, get in the rhythm of life, then go, "Yeah, truck's going." Or, "No, I want to keep it and we'll knock it out." Either one's fine with me. And again, you need agreement from your spouse, not your parents on that.

So, um yeah, the um uh the big issue on

your first question, I agree with John, is just uh can we actually have and set

up a an independent household emotionally and relationally with reasonable boundaries being in this apartment? Some people can.

>> Mhm. >> Um truth is not many.

>> Not many. What would you say? One in 10.

>> Uh I don't know. >> Two and two and 10 maybe. Maybe. I mean, it depends on so many different factors.

I think that this is one of those things that rarely is this the solution to everything. Usually, when people say, "Hey, I need help with working on my communication with my spouse." Usually that means I want them to do what I say.

Right? In this case, communication is actually the answer, which is make sure you're communicating with your parents, make sure you're communicating with each other, and you'll set up these regular rhythms where you can look her in the eye and say, "Are we still good? We still going to be here?" And she's like, "I I got to go." And you're like, "Cool.

We're getting out of here." because she's the priority. Your your new wife.

Um not your mom.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And where are you in the birth order and you're the first one to leave home, break your mother's heart and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. All that stuff shows up in it. >> Yeah. >> But 250 bucks rent, man.

>> Pretty sweet. >> It can set you up for a a totally different life if y'all can can talk your way through this. >> If you difference, if you bank it, bank the difference. Stack the cash, baby.

Stack the cash. That's pretty sweet.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm just thinking our kids are and the eight grandkids are all within 25 minutes. And I don't just show

up on their doorstep, nor are you mandated to do any family gathering

unless you've committed to it. >> If you say you're in, you're in. >> If you said you're in, we expect you to be in. We're ordering food. Yeah. >> But don't just go, "Oh, no. I mean, we we're freaking cooking for you." >> It's not Ray Romano's family, right?

>> Exactly. No popping out here. That's popping in, popping out stuff. But other than that, I mean, it's Yeah, we have not had any major issues with that. Knock on wood. There you go.

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Mattie's in Minnesota. Hi, Maddie. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. I'm so happy to be here.

>> Honored to have you. How can we help?

>> Okay, so quick baby step question. This is kind of flipping the script for us.

We just started binging the show and starting the baby steps. Um, I want to keep our somewhat new Toyota family minivan and snowball it, but my husband wants to sell it to become debtree. We both have ADHD and get really into things, but then fail at continuing like new hobbies, for example. And I'm scared if we go for a quick sex and sell the minivan, we'll be, oh, we're we'll be like, oh, we're debtree.

We're good to go now.

>> Self-awareness is a pretty cool thing.

[Laughter] >> Way to go. That's neat. That's very observant because that's actually a true statement about all of us that um if we

get a quick fix, we it doesn't off it doesn't stick as often as if we have to gut it out. Right.

>> Um right. And so, yeah, that that's that's true of all of us. Uh, so the van

is has how much owed on it?

>> 20. >> And how much debt do you guys have, not counting your house?

>> Um, just almost student loans. 4,000 left of student loans.

>> So, the van and one student loan.

>> Yep. >> 24,000 and you're debtree,

>> right? >> Not count. Not count the house. Yeah.

Okay. Less than a year in theory, right?

>> And your household income is what?

>> 160. >> Do you hate the van?

>> No, we love the van.

>> You should not sell the van. >> Keep the van >> for not because of your reasoning, but just the van is a it's not out of line in your situation. It's it's just

represents a quick fix. But not because it's a quick not I wouldn't tell you. I think your reasoning is sound, but I think you ought to just keep this van just because it's a good van and you can pay it off pretty quick and because you're gonna have to Here's what's going to happen. If you sell the van, what are you going to be doing?

Saving up money to buy another van, >> right? Exactly. Yeah. >> You know, so and you make 160 and you'll be able to do that pretty quick.

And so you're selling the van. Why? So I can buy another one in a year or in eight months or something.

>> No, I would just um Right. Yeah. No, I I would just buckle down, pay it off, and you will get the benefit of the thing you brought up while you're doing that.

>> Yep. Yep. >> What do y'all do for a living? What's the 160 coming from? It's a great income.

>> Uh, thank you. It's You'll be shocked by that's my husband is a social worker and I'm an artist. >> Okay. All right. Yeah. And so here's

what's um back to your original point

then that is super valid. Um neither one

of you are by your careers anyway are um

process people.

Okay. You are you deal with a lot of subjective things not objective things

>> and um in order to win at money you have

to develop some processes that you stick to. And that was in a sense what you said at the opening of the call. You said the exact same thing with a lot of wisdom. >> Yep.

>> Okay. And so um >> the uh I'll give you an example. We live in Nashville and so a lot of the country music people are my friends and uh there's two types of country music people. The ones that are pure artists and then there are those that are artists and actually have some business acumen.

usually get taken to the cleaners by some crooked manager. And the ones that

have a little bit of business acumen become household names for for decades.

Oh, thank you. I'm I guess artist turned

business owner is my career. So >> Okay. Oh, you're running a business.

>> Yes. Yeah. You get a kick out of this maybe. We sell custom paint by number kits of people's pets. So customers send us a photo. >> Oh, I thought you were like I thought you were standing in front of an easel.

Paint by numbers is a process. This is awesome. Okay, you're making my point for me. Okay, I bet George Camel has 50 of your products for his little precious dogs. That's awesome. Good for you.

>> Okay, now Okay, now I get >> y'all need them. Have y'all ever done a thing um longer than your marriage? Have y'all

ever stuck to a workout program, a nutrition program, a anything like that longer than your marriage?

>> Uh for me, being an artist/ business owner, but that's basically it.

>> Okay, >> so that's a good point. y'all. I want y'all to practice this like you're um like like it's a new muscle, >> okay? >> Because you're gonna find your marriage is going to get better on the back end of y'all grinding this thing out together. And we're not talking seven years like most like or multiple years like most people who call. Y'all are talking like a few months. Y'all make a ton of money. Y'all can pay this off.

>> Yeah. >> But I want y'all to practice building this muscle. >> So I I completely made the wrong assumption about you. Obviously, you are a systems and a process person and so u the very nature of paint by number. Oh my gosh. >> But I mean but also like I I I >> Yeah, that's going to but that's going to lend itself to the wisdom of her question the way she posed her question.

And so yes, go keep the van and you guys let that be the first part of your muscle of you working together, working money as a system, as a process. Build it. Let's build that muscle. Like John's saying, that's the answer. >> Yeah, it's a it's a good it's a good exercise. >> Very cool. Good. I love it, Maddie. I love it. people. It's one of my favorites. >> Very well done. Nicole is in Ohio. Hi, Nicole. How are you?

>> Hello. I'm good, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Well, I'm calling because um my husband

and I got married a year and a half ago.

Um it's both of our second marriage. So,

I was married um for 20 plus years um

sharing finances with my um former spouse and he was single for 15 years or

divorced for 15 years when we met. And so this month is our first month having our budget meeting and um we make um I

wouldn't say significantly different amounts, but enough for it to be a

difference. And so I just wanted to find out if I could get some suggestions on how to go about um approaching it so that we can start saving for our um dreams and goals and things like that.

>> Good for you. Good for you. Well, the fact that you've been through one that failed and he's been single a long time with no boss in his life except the guy in his mirror makes it harder for the

two of you to just go, "Woohoo! We're both going to throw in and go." Right? U if you were 22 and you didn't have any of these scars or any of these ruts where you were stuck in singleness for 15 years or anything like that, you would just jump in and go, "Woo, let's go." But you guys, this is going to be hard for y'all. Teaching an old dog new tricks is tough, right?

>> Yes. Yes. >> But it's going to be worth it. It's going to be worth it. >> Jesus said your treasure is where your heart is. When you agree on your spending, you're agreeing on what you value, what you prioritize. You're agreeing on your fears. You're agreeing on your dreams. It's not the money that matters. is that we're agreeing on where the money's going and that that means we're agreeing on what's important.

>> Okay? >> And that's a big thing. And that's going to be that there's going to be some polishing going on. There's going to be this the a couple of these rocks are a little rough and they're not going to be smooth stones easy. You're going to have to you're going to have to hold your breath a couple times, girl.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. Because he is the type

where he wants to be, you know, he's a

manly man. if that makes sense. And so I

don't want to be I don't know if we should do like percentages or >> No, no, no. You need to do dollars.

Manly men work with their wives all the time. >> And manly men put their their childish egos aside for building something that's greater than themselves, which is 1 plus 1 equals one when you get married.

>> Yes. Yes. And you have to have the courage when you're putting your money in the same checking account to say the words, "This makes me very scared." >> Yeah. The last bozo messed me up. And you're not that bozo, but I I still have that scar.

>> And a manly man wants his partner to feel safe.

>> Okay. Okay. Got it.

>> But there might What you're saying is there might be a hunting rifle in the budget somewhere.

>> Yes.

Correct. >> That's okay. That can be there. And there could be a nice pair of shoes in there for you, too. I don't care. I just want you to be in agreement on it and not come in and go, "Look what I did, honey." No, no, no, no. We're going to be in agreement. We're going to decide in ahead of time what we're going to do. We're going to walk together. Um because as John said, 1 plus 1 equals 1.

Actually, it equals probably about five because you get the power of synergy, the marriage advantage, all the data calls it.

[Music] All

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>> Today's question comes from Molly in Minnesota. Molly writes, "My partner and I bought a house together, but I'm the one who made the down payment." Well, I can already tell you we got a problem.

He shares the monthly payment expense, but hasn't said anything about paying me back for half the money I put down.

Okay. Should I ask him to take out a helock? Just Molly, no. Y'all break up.

Just break up and sell the house and move on. Should I ask him to take out a heliloc and pay it off to pay me back

for his half of the down payment?

>> You know what's interesting is is this is the actual first time I've seen the proper use of the word partner.

>> Oh, like like my >> this is like a business partner.

>> Yeah. And he owes me money.

>> Oh, by the way, I sleep with him >> on on the building I bought. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, no. You're well, y'all got

number one, don't take off a heliloc. This is you're like you're trying to punish him. Don't do that. Um, because

y'all bought a house together and so you telling him to take out a heliloc that he has to pay back um actually puts your house at risk. Don't do that. That's silly. The bigger issue here is y'all have some major fractures in your relationship and um you'll need to address those on the front end.

You should have addressed them before you entered into a legal binding contract um called the purchase of a house together, but y'all are already here. Um yeah, y'all got big issues.

>> Um can I pull the pin and throw the grenade? >> Yeah. >> Okay, good. Here we go. Um

you have two choices to fix this, Molly.

get married by Saturday

and stop this shacking up crap because you're doing things backwards or sell the house.

Those are the only two ways you will survive this.

Both ways you have a potential to survive it, but you're not going to survive it the way you are. It's not going to work

because you entered into a business arrangement with a person you're sleeping with with absolutely no written partnership documents and this is going

to go sideways and you have no out when it goes sideways.

He could just leave

and you never see him again and you can't even find him to get the house sold because you can't get him to sign the deed. he could

be in a car wreck. That happened to one caller and she called me up and said, "Yeah, now I own the house with his mom

because, by the way, he doesn't have a will either cuz you people aren't real good about doing paperwork on stuff, I can tell." And so he didn't have a will.

So guess who his heir is? It's not his girlfriend that he sleeps with. I can tell you that. That' be his mom and dad.

That'd be who gets the stuff if there's no will. The bloods. And so now you are

partners in a house with the mother of a

guy who didn't repay your his portion of the down payment. Oh, this is not going to go well. Molly people never. Let me help you with this.

The word was never. I didn't have a caveat. There was no except. It's a complete never. Capital n v.

buy a house with someone you're not married to under any circumstances.

Period.

Everything that can go wrong in this life will go wrong at some time or another. And you are stuck in a house

with that guy. You find out he's doing cocaine. You find out he's got a secretary that he's more in love with than you. You find out and you're just stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck, stuck with

no legal or business recourse to get your little butt out of this mess. And you're just beginning to discover how uncomfortable that is when this one little tiny thing about the down payment didn't come up. Like, you guys shouldn't have talked about that on the front end.

I think they did. And he's just not quote unquote paying her back.

>> Oh, but what happens when he doesn't do what he says he's going to do? Then he then he needs to go take out a helock.

>> Yeah. >> And Yeah. >> Off and put and put us as a lean on my house. No, >> this is dumber than crud. >> Yeah. I'm deadly serious. There's only

two ways to fix this. >> I I I'm going to I want to caveat. I don't think they should get married. I think there's too many issues here.

>> I know, but I'm just saying to protect her. >> Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. >> You know, but yeah, because so so at least when there's a divorce, right, >> she has a there's a there's a legal mechanism for getting rid of this stupid house.

Jesus. >> But right now, there's no legal mechanism for getting rid of this stupid house, except getting rid of this stupid house. So, and here's another prediction. She ain't going to do any of it.

>> No. >> So, we're just telling you all these stories so that the rest of y'all don't do what Molly did. That's the only reason we brought it up cuz Molly ain't going to do anything except what Molly wants. I can tell.

>> Well, I wonder, can I ask you this? This is just fun.

of Minnesota I wonder if he would have um like eviction rights like if she went dumped him today and said get out of this house. >> Who gets the house? >> Who gets the house? Who has >> who has to who gets to stay? And then I got to give you 30 days eviction and then you got to get 30 days and it's going to go to court and I got squatters. Right. Like this could get really messy really quick.

>> Like you know >> like spray spray can lines down the middle of the hallway. This is my half. This is your house. >> My dishes. That's my half the sink. No water on my side of the sink. >> That's your tobasco. Yeah. Oh my god.

Yeah. This This is so bad, y'all. This

is people acting like they're married when they're not married. And the whole system in the United States is not set up for you. Sorry, darling. The English

law does not English law is what we're modeled after, and it doesn't set up with the exception Louisiana, which is French law, and it's not set up for it either. So, just to help y'all, that's the way this stuff is laid out. You're screwed in these messes.

My gosh. All right. Carmen's in Colorado. Hi, Carmen. What's up?

>> Hi. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Thanks for answering my call. I'm calling in today because my husband and I need your help on what to do um to get out of debt and start saving for a house. My husband is 22 years old. I'm

24 and we have a one-year-old son. My husband is in his second year of electrician apprenticing through a union and I just went back to work in July as a dental assistant.

So my husband gets paid weekly. His

gross pay before taxes on a check is about 900, but after taxes is like 6.96.

And then so for the whole month it's about 2,784.

I get paid bi-weekly. My pay for the month is about 15-1,800 a month. Um my

husband pays all the bills which altogether our bills are about 2,753.

Um so with his check as you can tell

we're left with maybe a few dollars after his check after the bills but including inside the bills we have tithing which is 240. So every week we

put in $60 from his check to tithe. Um,

I pay my car payment and then the groceries and gas that adds up.

>> How much do you owe on your car, hun?

>> So, here's the stupid thing that we just did. Um, I had a 2021 Jeep Compass. It

was about 22,000 that I owed on it and

the car was getting too small. We couldn't fit the baby's car seat in there. >> How much do you owe on your car, honey?

>> 44,000.

Now, >> you have to sell your car. here. That car is going to bankrupt you.

>> That car That car is in the land of crazy. >> If you look up crazy in the dictionary, you're going to see a picture of this car.

>> Yeah. Okay. That's what me and my husband have been talking about, too, about selling his truck on.

>> You need to get a $4,000 car that you pay cash for.

>> Okay. So, that's one thing, too. We only

have a,000 in our emergency fund.

>> Good. That's a good start.

>> And the two and you know your you know your numbers. So even though he's been paying the bills, sounds like y'all are working on this together. That's really good news. You're doing a good job with that. >> Yeah. But the the car is like way over in crazy land. >> Are you going to sell it or not? >> Yeah.

>> Well, you said to sell it. So >> I know I said to sell it. I asked if you were going to do it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Good. >> This weekend? >> Yes. >> This weekend? Put Put a for sale sign on it. Let's go. >> Okay. cuz the car owns y'all. You don't own it.

>> Yes. >> And then that's going to free up so much. And then you guys keep doing your every dollar budget. We're going to give you a free year for every dollar.

And it's going to give you a step-by-step thing of exactly what to do after you get out from under this car payment and how you can walk your way into some savings out of debt and start talking about building the life. Cuz right now, y'all don't make much money, but you're just getting started and you'll get there. And he'll be making more money as he gets out of the apprenticeship. Right now he's starving to death.

No, y'all will get there.

the chain.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Dr.

John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey.

Brittany is in Indiana. Hi Britney, how are you? >> Hi, great. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help? I am calling. We uh paid off our house in 2023. Awesome.

>> And we uh yeah, we have no debt. We are

>> uh following your baby steps and your advice as much as we can. Um the reason I'm calling is we don't feel the sense of freedom, I guess, that we kind of expected or wanted because we're currently saving for a big home renovation. Um, our house was built in the 70s and has a lot of the original exterior components and a lot of them are um in need of being replaced.

They're quickly going from a cosmetic need to those windows need replaced type

thing. Um, and we're still trying to balance the enjoying freedom with our

house paid off with staying intense so

that we can get that rena done and then really feel free. And I guess we were just I was just looking for some words of wisdom or perspective on how to stay patient while you're saving for a big project like that.

>> Well, it is devastating that no matter what stage of money you get at, you find out it's finite, >> right? >> It's just a pain in the butt. Um it doesn't matter what you're driving that there's always another one to drive. It doesn't matter where you live, there's always another one to live. And you never really arrive at that. Contentment

is kind of a bully in the schoolyard. It says, "Step across this line and I'll punch you." You step across the line, it backs up and draws another line.

>> You know, it's a moving target, this contentment thing. And um and that

that's, you know, I've run into it, too.

I I completely relate to the feeling

that you have. Um it's like you you kind

of thought when you got here it was going to be easy >> or you you wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. You can just do whatever you want, right? >> Yeah. And it's not you you you intellectually didn't think it was going to be unlimited, but emotionally you felt like you were going to feel like you were unlimited. >> Like I'm a millionaire. I don't have to budget anymore.

>> What was that? >> It's like I'm a millionaire. I shouldn't have to budget anymore, right?

>> Well, we we do still budget. I mean, and I >> No, I know you do. I'm just I'm talking about feel the feeling feeling the emotion. It's annoying. Yeah.

>> Yeah, it is annoying. And it's also um

it's hard because we thought well we would be able to use more of our our so-called extra money for things like bigger nicer vacations with the kids and things like that. But I feel like >> well you could if you move

and hey I want to call out what Dave just said. Here's my promise to you. The day these renovations are over. If you and your husband don't get together ASAP and change how you experience the world, you're going to find yourself in yet another self-created prison

because y'all haven't made the switch to we are choosing to live in an old house, which means we are choosing to update this stuff. Some stuff has to be done, some stuff doesn't, but we're going to.

These are all choices. You're not owned by it, >> right? >> Yeah. There's two ways to fix an old house. Fix it or move.

right? If we were to move, I even I have considered that thought. Maybe we're maybe we would be better off moving, but we there's repairs that would have to be made regardless. So, it's we're kind of >> Yeah, but the point is the point is you're choosing >> you're choosing it. You're free. >> You're choosing. You're free to make a choice. Thank God >> you don't have this window project and a house payment. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and two car payments and student loans.

>> Yeah. you you'd be what's known as up a creek, right? No paddle. Yeah.

All that, right? It's the whole thing. I mean, so you're you really are, you know, you kind of got to look back in the rearview mirror and go, "Thank God." You know, uh I had a heat and air system go out on one of our properties the other day and it was like $10,000 or something we had to spend and I went, "Thank God that's an inconvenience." >> Yeah. It's annoying.

>> It's annoying versus a freaking catastrophe. Yeah. >> You know, which is what it used to be. Everything was a catastrophe.

When your life when you're broke, your life looks like a country song. You know, keep the dog out of the street, it'll get hit. I mean, come on. Everything that'll go on can go wrong.

dad gum drama. It's an emergency. It's it's that old CS Lewis quote that hell is is locked on the inside. Like y'all

have created yet another prison and then yet another prison and yet it's going to be a pattern until you all decide to exhale and say, "We are free. We're choosing to live in this house. we're choosing to go through these renovations and this is going to be a pain in the butt and we've done it before, we can do it again. And you you laugh and you kind of get that snarl and then you go get it versus this is happening to us. We are

stuck here. This it's a victim mindset.

It's it's a scarcity mindset versus a no, we can do whatever we want and we're making this choice right here. It's just a totally different >> You're in control. You're making a choice. You chose to do the windows and delay the travel.

And that's not a bad choice. >> No, it's a great choice. It's an annoying choice. It's probably the right choice.

Even if you turn around and sell the house, like you said, we got to fix it up to sell it. Even if we're going to do that, that's okay, too. That's all a good choice. The great news is you have choices.

>> Yeah, that's it. >> For two reasons. You got choices. >> Two reasons.

One is you put yourself in this position. And two is God chose for you to be born in America where you still have choices >> as opposed to someone just dictating to you what you're going to do. So, um, yeah, that's the cool thing.

because I'm the spender. Okay, at my house, Sharon's the natural saver. I'm the natural spender. And so I'm reading these scriptures and it says godliness with contentment is great gain. And so I go down the rabbit hole. I start studying contentment because I'm like, where do you find this? I want to buy a box of it. you know, I need some of this cuz I

I I've been go get it, go get it, go get it, acquisition, acquisition, acquisition my whole young life in particular in in my 20s, right? So, it's Jaguars and Rolexes and I I'm going to I'm going to acquire. I'm going to I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I'll be happy when I'll be happy when. And you know, the bully in the schoolyard backs up, draws draws a new line, says, "Come on." Then you come on, he said, "Do it again.

Do it." You never really get to hit him in the nose.

And so I but after we went broke,

I went to Costco where you can buy 25

pounds of peanut butter and you can buy 73 of anything you need one of.

And they check your little receipt when you're going out because it's federal law. You have to spend $200 in there. If you don't spend it, they make you go back and finish, right? And so that's

why they check the receipt. And I distinctly remember I can take you to the Costco. I had a spiritual experience. I walked out of Costco

buying nothing.

It was like a breakthrough.

>> I think there's a statue of you in a >> I think there's a breakthrough. You know, it was like, you know, it was like, I don't have to have any of this

today. >> And it was like something snapped. It was real. Yeah. It was real. And godliness with contentment is a great gain. And I became convinced that contentment might be the most powerful financial principle. If you don't have contentment, you get into debt. If you do have contentment, you can save. If you don't have contentment, you're always at odds with your spouse about money. If you do have contentment, the two of you are just trying to figure out how much you can give away.

>> It's a it's a breakthrough. It's a financial breakthrough like like none of the other financial principles we teach. >> It's true freedom. Yeah. It's very powerful. It's a great call. I appreciate you calling so much. I completely relate to you, Britney. I understand your feeling. Um, it's a very human feeling that it's just it's a it's a journey you're on and you'll get there.

[Music]

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So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phones called an app, an

application.

So, we decided that Ramsay should have an app that would do your budget. And we

worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really

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You assign every one of your dollars a place to go. Give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars and uh in

programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and um have

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allnew Every Dollar, we just relaunched it the other day and it's a complete

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into the Every Dollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the baby steps framework and the Ramsy way, so to speak. And the Ramsey way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity.

Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine

how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The allnew Every Dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Jake. How are you? >> Good, guys. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So me and my wife were 24. Um fresh out of college a few years ago. Uh so we decided to uh build a home, our forever

home. Um and the cost kind of got out of

control. our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side. Um they actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. Uh there's a different story behind that, but they're very uh they've accumulated some wealth over the years. Um they've handed us over a lump sum of money um to help

us build this house um and whatever is left over we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Um me and my wife make about 130,000 a year um before taxes um

with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is and we we do have a um a good amount of savings from the past years of working about $120,000 in savings. Um >> I'm sorry. You have $120,000 in savings.

>> Why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

>> They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up. Um, and so they want to help every single one of their kids out. Um, I'm one of three brothers. >> Yeah. But you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out.

>> Oh, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no.

>> So, what happened with the house? You got You bought too much house. What's the deal with the house? >> Uh, yeah. So, we're building. Um.

>> Oh, you're still building? >> Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. >> Oh, you just started building?

>> Yes. So, the deal was with them um was we can collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I worked for them actually. Um, and they wanted

this what they wanted to do for us and so we kindly accepted it. Um, and any

cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, uh, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And, and so I guess my question is is me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking my kids right now. Um, do we

give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning? Um, or do we have some of that, keep most of it and travel and and have fun in our early 20s? >> So, do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel?

>> That's in essence what this where this lands when I say it that way. Does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me? >> Yeah, a little bit. >> Okay. Yeah. No,

you you you like did grown up stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old.

pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? >> Very good. >> The shest ways and >> the shest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

>> Okay. >> And I know that's a weird hard thing to say at 24, especially when you got two people who are like, "No, it's no big deal. It's no big deal." Just take it from two older guys.

>> Clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now. >> Yeah. I think I heard a two-stage deal here. like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough and so then they loaned you more.

Is that right? >> Yes. They loaned us the full amount of

whatever it cost for the house we're paying for it in cash >> um to build. So they're not taking loan out from any they're they've been completely debtree since 2008.

>> I know. But you now owe them >> Yes. >> a mortgage payment.

>> Okay. So that part where they went through financial peace university, they flunked the class cuz we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money.

>> Oh my god. >> Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. >> Yeah. The borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> That's going to be painful for your wife. Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

>> Understood. Oh. So, how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

>> Um, probably going to be around 200 to 250,000.

>> Okay. And how much of a gift did they give you? >> Um, about 50% of the total cost to

build. So, about 200 250,000.

>> So, you're 24 years old, you make 130, and you got a $450,000 house.

>> Uh, yes.

>> Dang, Gina. Okay.

>> It's a lot of house, dude. It's a lot of house. >> All right. Um, well, for sure the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation.

Yes, you need to 100 do the take the 130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage. And then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents, >> okay? because I don't want this mortgage.

Um, I don't think you're going to do that because I think you guys have worked out this detailed thing in all of your heads that this all works out to the point that you're ready to go to Europe instead of paying back. Um, here

here's here's what what I would say. I can see myself working really hard so

that I can I can bulldoze a path for my

son and his new wife. I get that.

But if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, "Dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here. I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your like I don't I don't want you to be my banker." I would be so

proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, I'm taking this by I'm taking the reigns here. It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. Uh I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, Dad.

Cuz the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It it just ends in somebody

wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to.

And it's like, well, after all we've It just It's just a recipe for disaster.

But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage. >> It's a$1 $120,000 mortgage.

>> It's a tiny tiny tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y'all make. Uh >> if you don't go on trips. >> Yeah, if you don't go to Europe. And by the way, you're I don't know, Dave.

Trips are more fun when I when I'm older now. I don't know why. They just are.

>> Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home.

Um but and in essence, that's what this ends up being. Well, I don't have I don't have >> increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad >> by the amount that we spend on the trips. >> And so it's like borrowing on the trip, borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously that would be ludicrous. So moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got, um uh which was an F,

um here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and uh part of the

bargain is they never borrow money again cuz you want your family tree to be completely changed. Great. Never make

your child your grown child, your slave.

You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you were, but they're very real. And no one

is the exception. Even a nice master is

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[Music]

Tim is in Ohio. Hey Tim, what's up?

>> It's Ken. Ken.

>> Oh, sorry. Hey, Kelly. It's Ken.

>> That's okay. >> KN. Okay. I was just reading my screen.

Pardon me. How can I help? >> That's no problem. Yes, Dave. Um, so I

uh year and a half ago I got into your program and stuff and let me thank you

from the bottom of my heart cuz that completely changed everything for me.

Um, and with I'm married now and my wife

is 62. I am 55 and um I work for the state and I have

opers and we have to we don't have a

choice. we have to put in 10% of our gross income into that and then the state also matches that 10% and adds 4%.

My wife's 401k they do know do do not have any company match uh her late husband only would

allow her five to 6% and not aggressive

at all. So, there's not much in there,

but we currently have 27,500

in debt. There's 44,000 in that account.

And then we have our house.

um and crunching the numbers and looking

at things. If we take the 27,500

out of there and just wipe out that debt, that allows us to pay the house

off in under 5 years and 18 months more

of investing at $3,000 a month. Does

that make sense to you?

>> She's 62. 6'2.

How old is she?

>> She's 62. So, yes, we understand we'll

be on the hook for taxes, but we are >> Yeah, the 44. It's going to take the whole 44,000 to clear 27.

>> Okay. >> So, or close. I mean,

give or take a,000 bucks for two, but it's not I mean, you're going to have to pay taxes on $44,000. Going to be at least 10 grand, right?

>> Hello. Well, we would be in the 12% tax bracket.

>> Why y'all don't work?

>> Yes, we work. >> How are you in a 12% tax bracket?

>> Because of filing jointly and you take

the first 10% off of that and then we uh

go into the the rest of it goes into the

12%. Then >> what's your household income?

>> Uh about 75,000 a year. >> Okay. I I don't think you're doing that right, but I'm not a tax pro. I can't do it in front of I can't do it off the top of my head. Anyway, uh you're going to have taxes. It's going to eat up a lot of the 40,000. And so, you're basically

going to cash out her retirement at 62 years old, pay the taxes, no penalties, and pay off her debt. Yes, I would do that. But make sure you set this money aside for tax.

>> Okay. >> And have somebody else calculate it other than you and me because neither one of us are very good at it, I don't think. >> Yeah. I don't think you're calculating that right, but >> but anyway, the uh Yeah, but I think the either way you're going to use up most of it either way.

So, um >> tell me the math behind that, Dave. Like, somebody 62 going to go ahead and pull it. >> Well, I mean, if you've got retirement and he's got a bunch and then they're going to uh you know, we don't tell people to cash out their retirement and pay before they're retired, >> but at 62 your retirement age.

And I don't want to pay that 10% penalty, but you're going to pay your taxes on it. But, you know, like if we have somebody call in, they owe $300,000 on their house and they've got $900,000 in their 401k, I'll pay off the house out of that. >> If they're 62 or older. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because I no penalty on it.

Pay off their house. That's what you It's what you saved it up for. And in this case, it's just a blended family, a second marriage thing. And it's just a weird little account. Yeah. It's not a big account, but um but it doesn't it doesn't really change the the principle is yes, if you have enough in retirement

and you can clear all your debts even and pay your taxes that you create by doing that, I would do that as long as you've got some left over and of course they've got all of his and they're both continuing to work and they're going to put $3,000 a month back into the program. So that's that's where we're going. Yeah, that that's no different than Yeah. Very very good. Christine's in Virginia. Hi Christine, how are you?

Hey, I'm doing well, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Um, I recently I recently discovered you

about a month ago, and I'm hooked now on your little cult, which I'm happy to be.

>> Yes. We're going to send you some We're going to send you some Kool-Aid here in the mail.

>> Awesome. Um, my question is, my husband

and I are in about $87,000 of debt. Um,

I'm 60. He's 62.

Um, I want to start your program desperately. We both do. Um, but my concern is that of that debt, 68,000 is

in a debt settlement program.

>> Doesn't mean you can't pay it off. >> I can't.

>> Really? >> Yeah. >> I thought, well, aren't I obligated to them for the 55 months I signed up for?

>> Nope.

You've already paid them. They got all their money up front. The first handful of payments you paid them paid them.

>> They didn't none of your payments, the first handful went to the debt. It went to them and then and then what they've done is destroyed your credit and have put you in default on everything and then set up payment plans with everybody.

>> Um but I mean I would do it as a lump sum. I'd probably do it as a lump sum.

What kind of debt? How much of the 87 is in that?

>> 68. >> Oh yeah, you said okay. All right. And what's your household income?

>> Uh we make about a h 100,000 together.

>> Okay. Well, you may find that it's easier to just lump sum it and call them up and go, "Okay, help me settle lump sums on this rather than payments. Ask

the ask the debt settlement company to do that." How many different debts are in the 68?

>> Uh let's see. I was just looking at it.

My problem with them is that they're not doing very well because we've had them actually.

>> Oh, I I was hooked. I was hooked line and sinker. I will not lie.

>> Um >> it's been since January and they've only settled two accounts. Probably

>> 10. >> Okay. All right. And they've settled two of them. Okay. Well, what I would do is call them up and say, "Hey, I'm going to start advancing some cash towards this and you're going to get more aggressive cuz I'm going to you're going to feel my foot on your butt."

>> I don't have an any extra cash to send them though. >> I know you do. If you're going to get out of debt,

you make a h 100,000, something's going to change. You're going to get on beans and rice, rice and beans. We're not going out to eat. We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless we're working there. We're not going on vacation. We're not spending any money on anything cuz we're 60 years old and deeply in debt and we got to get this crap cleaned up. >> Christmas presents. >> Yeah, we're we're sending cards this year instead of presents for everybody.

>> Yeah, everybody. Here we go. The worm has turned. Times have changed.

It's about to change, baby. I mean, you got to get you got to get after it. And uh cuz you don't you don't want to be 70 and be looking at the you know, half this debt still laying there cuz you've been toying around with it. So, uh, but go ahead and clear the other f other portion first and, um, then when you get to the debt settlement 68, then start being on the phone with them going, "Okay, uh, need to settle one more of these.

Could be as early as 2 years, probably a little more than two years to get through that. But you're going to have to be living on nothing. Nothing.

Nothing. Nothing. Honey.

>> Blankets. Blankets. Sweaters in the house. All of it.

>> That whole thing. Turn the thermostat.

>> Turn the I mean, but like it's a it's a mind shift, man. >> You got you got to have to go. And here's the thing. As as you know, you you don't have a lot of time to do this.

It's not like you got 40 years to figure this out. You got 40 months to figure this out. So, you need to get with it.

And um you can do it. you can absolutely do it. But the uh debt settlement companies, boys and girls, uh the way they work is um they collect payments from you for five years. The first set of payments they collect from you, they put 100% of it in their pocket while letting all of your credit cards and other stuff go into default.

Then they go to the creditors and say, "Oh, these are in default. What will you take as settlement?" And so even if you weren't in default, they put you there. That's their process. That's how they do it.

And that's why we tell you not to do that stuff.

Snuggy ad and a gold ad on cable TV is

pitching you something financial, stay away from it.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800 356-4282 or go to xander.com.

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Well, it happens occasionally. We've uh got one of our friends stopped in here.

The one and only Tim Tibo. Welcome, my friend. >> Thank you guys. So good to see y'all. Thanks for having me. >> Good to see you again. So, we were just talking papa stuff before you uh as you walked in. Uh got a new baby.

>> We do. Almost 3 months old. It's crazy now. I feel like I'm actually getting old. And uh little gray in the beard

there. You got to be careful. a little gray in the beard. My wife though, >> but it's it has just been >> such a crazy blessing. And you know, a lot of people ask like, >> you know, being a dad, is it a different kind of love than you knew? And I thought a lot about it and I don't know because the moment Demi said she was pregnant, I think I already felt it.

>> But I'll tell you what hits you is the responsibility. Like when we get home, >> I was like, "Oh, we got to change this cabinet. We got to change this countertop. this could she could get injured on she could do this. You're like you're trying to think >> 10 steps ahead and five years ahead and that level of responsibility is surreal.

>> I always tell somebody it's like somebody just adds two more plates on the squat rack and it just that it just it sits under you and you're like oh this heavy, right? >> It is. >> So the Tim Tibo is a two-time national champion, Heisman trophy winner, first round NFL draft pick, speaker, college football analyst, five times New York Times bestselling author. I think you've been on here four of those times if I remember.

So, I'll take credit for a little of that. He's the founder and the leader of the Tim Tibo Foundation.

obviously anti anti Well, I mean,

>> yeah. I mean, we've done we we're both share a love of uh several people that are in that in that space and you your team is in that space big time and uh so we've had a lot of different things we've done together. New book out, look again, recognize your worth, renew your hope, run with confidence. Now, I do

know you well enough to know the truth is is that you don't just sit down and randomly go, "Oh, time to do a book." right? >> Um that something had to be burning and churning inside of you that you couldn't not say. >> And so where's that come from on this one? >> Uh it was really inspired several years ago and I felt like I put it off longer than I was called to >> and uh it was really first inspired at a

night to shine. It's our worldwide celebration for individuals with special needs. And we were at one of the night to shines in Arizona and um it was during CO and so all they're driving through the drive-thru and on the red carpet and we're celebrating all of these cars that are coming through and a lot of them are Corvettes. And so all the kings and queens are in the back and cheering for everyone as this massive crowd is cheering for everybody.

And there's a young girl in a red Corvette as it drives around and she is just beaming. The joy in her life and in her heart and just oozing out of her is so contagious.

pulls by and I see the back of it and I didn't even know our teams and partnerships with the churches were even making these bumper stickers, but I saw the bumper sticker and on the back it said royalty on board. And I just thought, man, >> yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's somebody's daughter, right? >> It it is. It's royalty on board. And so it really led us down this track of really studying what does it mean to be made in the image of God.

>> And so we talked to so many incredible scholars over the last few years and diving in. A lot of people talk about the image of God is is rational, relational, functional, right? How we're we're rational beings. to logic and thought and all this that God's given us or relational meant for relationship with each other and for God or functional to rule and reign and I think all of those are part of it but I think it's a step further and a step that's even more important and that's when you really look at the the image of blank that was used over history especially in the ancient near east it was always a term used for kings or for monarchs so Assyrian king you know was made in the image of bell or Egyptian king made in the image of raw goddess that they believed in and so when they would have heard that in and the ancient near east that we were made in God's image.

What it would have come across to them is that it's a royal worth statement. And we have forgotten that in our soci society that when we're made in the image of God, it's not just what we do, but it's who we are.

It's a royal worth statement that he loved us so much he would create us in his image. And we have just forgotten that. And if you look at what's happening in our societies and around the world, if you look at the boys and girls that are being exploited or trafficked or the loneliness or the suicides or all of this, it is it's a royal worth statement. We've forgotten the the worth of humanity.

We've forgotten the value of every single life. And and I really my heart and prayer for this book is that part of it would be one of the most encouraging things that someone would ever read, >> but the second part will also be one of the most challenging things that hopefully prayerfully someone will ever read. >> Yeah. So, as you're talking, I'm I'm thinking a the importance of hearing this, but that also means I've got a responsibility to every single person in my neighborhood.

>> Everyone you ever meet, >> right, >> is made in God's image. And the the encouraging part is we share so much biblical truth that >> should be encouraging to people. Man, I'm made in God's image. Yeah.

It it's a value statement for me. It's a love for me.

challenged and thought over and over about the title. Why it's so important to look again is to look again at who God made me to be. But then it also applies to every single person that I see ever of all time. >> Check that bumper sticker. your friends and your enemies.

>> Every one of them. >> Royalty on board. >> It's royalty on board.

>> Man, >> that that's a profound call for this moment. >> Yeah. >> I I think that you you just couldn't

have have written it or thought it and you know, for what's taking place in our society. Yeah. for the divisiveness, for

the the demeaning and the diminishing of people that we disagree with, for the lack of of value because of uh an

argument or because a disagreement or because of a political stance or because of a background >> and and we diminish people >> and instead of having a disagreement but still valuing people, you can do both.

And as a society, we have to do a better job of valuing who God made us to be, but then also valuing everybody else.

>> Look again, you'll see the bumper sticker if you look again. Recognize your worth. Renew your hope. Run with confidence is a brand new New York Times bestseller. I'll go ahead and predict that. Um, from our friend Tim Tibo. Uh,

man.

Dude, I'm convicted sitting here, man. I I just the thing keeps running through my head is I remember like even teaching teens years ago, you're a king's kid.

>> Yeah. >> You're a king's kid. You're a king's kid. I remember a pastor saying teaching this one time. He said, you know, in the in the Old Testament in Genesis, it says, uh, God created the heavens, earth

and the stars also.

That's the mention of the stars.

>> And then he spends 35 chapters on

Joseph.

You know, I it's like what's more what's more valuable to God? >> That individual. >> It's not even close. There's only, >> you know, it's not even the individual and the stars also. >> That's right. There's there's >> it's almost an afterthought. >> That's right. There's only one thing that Jesus as the son of God came to die for. >> People >> and yet we put in place of people or above people our our cars or our watches

or our praise or promotion or recognition or all of these things. And when you do that, what you are doing, what's implied is how diminished people are, right? That they come after all of those things. And this is a challenge that you are more important than all of those things, but so is every person you see.

>> And and especially when you see people that are suffering. Yeah. And today, there are so many people that are suffering. And how could we >> know the worth that God has put on humanity and not do something, especially when we know they're suffering?

So bring bring it down for the person who's the truck driver or the single mom who's balancing two kids and listening to the Ramsay show trying to figure out how to pay debts off.

>> Well, it's >> like we can start foundations and fix it, but what's something that uh a person who is just grinding it out right now in their neighborhood? >> Don't look past. Don't look away. Refuse to look away. Refuse to look away. um

that person that you're when you're pushing your kids in their stroller and you want to ignore them. Say hi. Hi.

>> Value them. >> Value people. If you're the truck driver, how what's taking place? Well,

how many kids are being exploited on that, right? Be aware of it. Talk to your teams. Talk to your supervisors.

Understand the problems that are taking place and act upon them. And people say, "Well, what can I do in the macro?" Sometimes it's hard to step into some of these fights because they're big. They're very hard. They're very difficult.

daunting and overwhelming, but all of us see people almost on a daily basis. Value them, love them, show them the worth, because how do we know their worth? Well, it's it starts in Genesis that they're made in God's image, but then is brought full circle when Jesus came and died on the cross for them. And how do we know the value and worth of somebody?

By what someone is willing to pay for them. And Jesus Christ, who has infinite value and worth, was willing to give his life in exchange for you and me and every person we ever see. That's how we should see them. And right now we see them through the fy lenses.

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, PhD and counseling is my co-host today. Open

phones at88255225.

Kim is in South Dakota. Hi Kim, how are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay, so we um live debtree, had

purchased two used cars. We followed your program since we had our daughter 20 something years ago. Um and have lived that way, but ran into a little snaggle when we were part of a natural disaster. and we had purchased homelers insurance with State Farm and had a really high deductible because our opinion was we had enough money saved that if something happened we would pay for it ourselves and not pay a huge premium. So that's how we lived our lives. Um we don't go on vacations. Um

our we have one child who was in college and we were paying for that with cash. She's premed so she has to go to school for that. And so that's kind of how we lived our lives until this storm came.

But the storm made our house unlivable and so we had to go into a hotel for two and a half years and the insurance company um did not pay us uh like they

said they would. And so we ran up thousands and thousands of credit card debt dollars in debt to pay for food, housing, all of that stuff. And unfortunately we tried to resolve this with them and couldn't. So we we have an attorney who's filing suit against them to try to get our money back. In the meantime, we're trying to dog paddle our

our way out of this. And at the same exact time, our child had to have open heart surgery. We had to take her to California to Stanford. And we spend a lot of time, which I have no control over these bills at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester.

So, I never know how to budget because I've got hotel bills unexpected when they say you have to come to Mayo and you have to pay for those things. You have to pay for food when you're Mayo, gas. And so, it's very difficult to budget. So, I just wanted to know if there's something I'm missing because sometimes you're too close to it to see it.

manage this because I don't feel like I have control like we used to have. Um,

and I just wanted some ideas.

>> Okay. Um,

I I miss So, for 20 years you were completely debtree and you didn't have any money.

Well, we had did have money, but we used a lot of that um to do repair up front.

We became the Bank of State Farm.

>> Yeah, I know. But how much how much money did you have?

>> Um we had a I'm going to say saved up

and not used for college cash on hand because we just bought this house probably about $100,000 >> that we had saved up. >> And so why did it take two and a half years? And why were you not buying your own food while working?

Um, well, we couldn't pay in the hotel.

You can't You can buy food, but you can't cook if there's no >> Well, I mean, if it's going to take two and a half years to go, why don't you go rent something?

>> We tried. Um, there wasn't anything available that met the the physical needs that we had. We had moved our neighbor into our home who was 90 years old, actually 95 for end of life care, and we couldn't have stairs and there were just requirements that we had that they could not meet. So we ended up in a

hotel and you had to pay for laundry, you had to pay for, you know, meals three times a day. >> I mean, State Farm screwed you, but so did those decisions.

>> Yeah.

>> You you you quadrupled or 5xed your cost

and it doesn't take two and a half years to rebuild a house.

>> Oh, it's not even done now. I mean

>> I mean like Okay, so >> I built an entire house in in 11 months.

Why can you not build a house? I I I've got family members that just lost their house in Texas and last night was their

first night back, >> but it was it's been what, four months, five months? >> Like Yeah. Two and a half years. Tell me about that. Like it seems like they could have knocked the whole house down. >> It was a natural disa. It was a natural disaster. So there were lots of building going on, projects going on. So there weren't a lot of contractors available.

It was also during the time where you had high gas prices and stuff and contractors didn't even want to come out to look at the house. It wasn't something that they wanted to do because there was so much work. Um there was a lot of contributing factors. Also the fact that State Farm was not approving things. Um you kept having to wait. They would make us do another estimate and another estimate another.

>> Right. So, but you stayed in the ditch

rather than making a decision to do something completely different for two and a half years. So, that's what put you here. Um, my goodness. And now the

health your your daughter that's studying to be a doctor has had open heart surgery.

>> Correct. >> So, she's not studying to be a doctor right now. She's recovering, right?

No, they're the school's letting her stay in school and she's trying to do stuff, you know, online and submit things sometimes late. And >> did you not did she have health insurance?

>> She has our health insurance, my husband's health insurance. >> And does it not cover the surgeries and the other stuff?

>> It covers surgeries, but it doesn't cover any any of the other things associated with it like hotel bills and

gas and food. when we go to Mayo or when we had to go to Stanford. We in Stanford for seven months. >> Yeah. So, what is your household income?

>> 188 >> and and you can't buy a hotel bill and

go to Stanford if you make 188,000.

>> Well, again, I mean, we did and you

know, put things on credit cards and you

know, >> why you make 188,000?

because we had a mortgage payment and we had college tuition and we had other things that we were paying. I mean, it wasn't and we were paying, you know, for the house while we were in the hotel. I mean, there was a lot of I could sit here and go over a single bill and you go, "Oh, that makes sense." >> But we're not extravagant. I mean, we're not um give you an idea like we've

canceled our trash service and gather up our own trash and take the dump ourselves and run sprinklers money.

>> Yeah. We're not trying to pick those apart. I I think if if I back all the way out of this thing, I think the part for for every emotional health challenge, there is this distance from this scary terrifying line called reality.

>> And if you on my show, I say this probably three times an episode, which is the life you had is over and you got

a new one now. And what most people try to do is keep parts or the whole of

their old life going while navigating this new reality.

And so for instance, you were in a position when you were debtree and had 100 grand in the in the bank and y'all made $200,000 a year to fully fund your kids college. That's a dream you'll have. It's a priority for you. If you can't afford it though, you can't afford it. And that's a hard conversation with your kid. That That's what I'm That's what I'm talking about. >> Yeah. And you know the third month, not the third year, >> right? >> I sue State Farm and I move out of a hotel the third month.

And if I have to pay for nursing home for the 92-year-old neighbor as to just to make me feel good about that, I will.

Or maybe not. >> Or go to my church and say, >> "Maybe I I can't do this. I thought I could help this guy and I can't help this guy anymore. I'm not in a position because only the strong can help the weak.

Um, so I think you got to start putting some limitations on some of these things that you keep declaring as absolutes in this conversation. The absolute is we got to have a place to live and we got to keep our daughter like healthy. And outside of that, I think everything's got to be back on the table. >> And 188,000 will do those things.

>> Yeah. >> Without credit card debt and without parsing it out and parsing it out and parsing it out, you know. So, and you

know, just if if it's any consolation to you at all, State Farm has a horrible reputation on claims. You're not the only one. So, sue their butt. But I'm not going to wait around on them to fix my life either.

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[Applause] Heat up here.

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John, I came away from that last call

feeling um like I was too tough on her

cuz she's been through a lot. Bless her heart. And uh but uh

there's some kind of a thing that that I guess you can guide us through from a counseling perspective. I could do it almost from a business acumen perspective, but um

when tragedy occurs, not if in your life, it's going to have

financial implications.

>> Correct.

>> How do you Because I meet people and and

she had done some of this. I mean, she bless her heart, she'd been through hell. Awful. Okay. Um, and so I I should

have been probably more sympathetic, but there there's something that happens and I and I did it. I think I think I did it during bankruptcy.

Um, it like it gives us permission

uh to be illogical >> in setting boundaries for ourselves. You

know, it's like, okay, this has happened and so now all the rules don't count.

Does that mean you know what I'm saying? Totally. It's like a human nature thing.

I I I can think of times I've done it too. Not so it's not just >> poor Kim with what the hell they've been through. I've done it. Yeah. >> But the um but there's also how how can we coach folks that are listening to say, "Okay, well, what should you do when tragedy occurs?" Somehow you've got

to put um you've got to truncate the you

got to cut off the damage, not expand the damage.

>> Yeah. the only the only path and I I've I've wrestled with this for a couple of decades sitting with somebody whose life was going one way and it was often started with my college students like they would be having a plan to go do a thing and then mom would get cancer and they want to continue their degree in

you know molecular biology but also and it's it always came back to hey everything in your life is different now and we have to start here and but I don't want to you're right it's not fair you're right? This shouldn't happen.

You're right. And yet here we are. >> So the the old phrase is you have a new normal. >> You have a new normal.

And so the only thing I've seen people do to be successful in my own life and folks I've sat with is this word that we have an allergy to in our society, which is grief. You have to spend some time just mourning this thing is over now and now I have to move forward.

And instead, >> I wanted to take care of my 92-y old neighbor. >> I wanted to what a noble, amazing thing.

And suddenly, I don't have any money. I wanted I kept thinking I don't have a house, right? I kept thinking that in in two more months they're going to get this thing rolling again. And then two more months. After four months, three months, six months, I have to say there's nobody coming. And we are racking up bill after bill at this hotel. Sure is credit farming.

>> We have to do something different. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I was telling you off air, I had a family member that lost their house in the Texas floods. They lived in a hunting trailer for months because

that's all they had. Not because they're noble or tough or anything. It's it's all we had. Or the alternative is I'm g I have to put myself in jeopardy in my

older age and run up a whole bunch of debts I'm never gonna be able to pay off. And it's that the the folks that I see are able to experience tragedy, which we all will. And we talk about resilience, we talk about growing from or there's a big word post-traumatic growth, right? Those that I see make that move are the ones who can sit in

that exhale grief and say, "Everything's different now. What's my next right move?" And if you can do that, there's

it's a it's an amazing trajectory. If you don't, you drag that past and it's this weird I have permission to just go buy that meal. I have permission just to stay in this place for two and a half years. I have permission to keep doing the awesome work I was doing with my elderly neighbor.

Um, even though reality says you can't afford it, it's not going to happen. >> Yeah. >> And we're using her as an example. We're not picking on her.

It's all of us. >> No, I wouldn't wish what she's experienced on on anybody.

because one of the reasons you should listen to the show is the lessons.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> Not just the entertainment value of of people's stuff, but uh you ought to say, "Okay, what what what's a lesson I can take away so I don't end up there." Well, the lesson is you limit the

the financial impact of the tragedy by

restarting your life with a new definition quickly as as quickly as you can get there. >> Yeah. >> And sometimes um you don't feel your way into that. You start acting your way into that. >> The feelings will come later up and down like a roller coaster. But I'm going to make the next right move is which is >> Okay, I'll give you an example. Here's one I do all the time. Okay. Have for 30 years. We're getting a divorce and the

lady calls and says, "Uh, I make 30,000,

he makes a h 100,000 and I want to keep the house for the kids.

>> I don't I don't want to disrupt their life. >> I don't want to disrupt the kids' life." A thousand times out of a thousand, I say, "Honey, you got to sell the house

because the the life you used to have is no more. You no longer have a $130,000 income. You have a $30,000 income >> and you can't afford this house. The kids are already disrupted.

It's called divorce. And so they're restarting. The best thing you can do for them is to restart them on solid ground, not a sinking ship. And you trying to keep this house as a sinking ship. So restart. Reset your vision of

your life. And that's a little miniature one-off version of what we're talking about. >> Or we talk we talk to folks all the time who I was making $120,000. My company did layoffs and now I'm in month nine with no income. and they'll they'll

they'll spin up a lot of activity. I've I've got on LinkedIn and sent out 10,000 uh resumes via email. No one's getting back to me. >> So I think yeah going back to that reality. >> Exactly. So when you are restarting one of the things you have to do is take inventory of what is still there.

>> What is still here? >> The income. This is the income that I do have and this is I have you know it's almost

like count your blessings. Yeah.

>> Okay. Here's what I do have to work with as opposed to what I used to have to work with. And I I what I do have is a

situation in Texas where uh everybody got wiped out at once in that area. So finding a contractor is dad gum near impossible. >> That's right. >> And so I don't have a uh an

overabundance of contractors to work with. >> Right. >> Okay. I don't have that. And so what do I have? I got a hunting trailer. >> I got a old hunting trailer with an air conditioner. plug it in and we're going to make a go of it >> and until we can get the contractors to show up because everybody else is in line. And um uh I I can tell you this,

there are the city of New Orleans was virtually destroyed a couple of decades ago by a

hurricane called Katrina.

And there are cinjun restaurants all over the United States today from people

who left New Orleans because they had to start over. >> Yeah. >> And they couldn't start over there. >> I was in Houston. So many people came and said, "New restaurant, man. We got to start here cuz my home doesn't exist anymore." >> What? My life as I knew it before. I have to restart. And in some cases, it's pull up stakes and go to a whole another area. >> That's right. Is that fun? No. Do Do you lose your family heritage? Yes. Is it a Do you weep? Yes. And this thing reality

just keeps chugging along. Math doesn't change. And it's hard. So, if you if you're in the middle of a storm, like poor Kim has gone through multiple storms at once and she had like the perfect storm. It's awful.

>> Um, the only thing we can tell you is take stock of what you do have, not what you used to have >> and reset a new vision that fits within

those numbers.

And the other stuff is you have to sadly say no to. >> That's right. >> I I can't live in this area anymore. You can't go to this school anymore.

I can't take care of this person anymore. I can't do this. And you have to you're going to have a whole lot of can'ts. And that's what I mean by truncating.

You're going to have to stop doing some things that you used to were able to do in order to create a new life with the new limitations and in the new situation that is healthy and that doesn't follow you around. Cuz if you don't, you end up with two decades to clean up the mess >> that the tragedy goes on indefinitely >> until you stop. >> Until you stop. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. And and this happens if there's an affair. >> It's not fair, by the way. >> It's not It's not fair.

>> Um and there's this happens if you have an affair in your marriage. This happens if you lose a job. It happens to all of us multiple times throughout our lives.

The quicker you can exhale. Sometimes getting out a pen and a piece of paper.

What is true mathematically? What's true? What do I have? What am I grateful for? I got a I got a trailer in the back. I'm going to have to move in there. And then that's the ash with which you plant the tree. And man, new trees can grow, but you got to plant them in soil of reality.

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In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debt free stage, Ryan and Amber are with us. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Great. >> Welcome. Welcome. Where do y'all live?

>> Springrove, Minnesota. Southeast Minnesota. >> Cool. Welcome to Tennessee. Good to have you. And all the way here to do a debtfree scream. And how much have you paid off? >> 180,000. >> Very cool. >> Over 32 months. >> 32 months. And your range of income during that 2 and a half years?

>> Started at uh 140 and got up to 180.

>> Cool. What do you do for a living? >> I'm a construction superintendent for a general contractor. >> And I do ultrasounds.

>> Oh, very cool. Good for y'all. Very good. So, what kind of debt was the 180?

>> Look at it. Weird people.

>> Young weird people paid off a house early. I love it. Yep.

>> So, uh, what's this house worth?

>> Uh, if we were sell it right now, be right around 300. >> Good for you guys. Way to go. And how much you guys got in your nest eggs already? Your 401ks and stuff?

>> Just a little over 200 right now.

>> All right. So, you're about a halfway to a millionaire already. And you're what?

30. How old are you? >> 28 and 27. >> There it is. Not even 30.

>> Y'all didn't get the memo. You're not allowed to do that any You're not You're not able to do that anymore.

>> Yeah. It's different to be weird, but all right.

Well, congratulations. How long y'all been married? >> Four years. >> Okay. And two and a half of that you've been tearing into this mortgage. >> Yeah. Yep. >> So, tell us the story. How'd you get tied into Ramsay?

>> Uh, my first employer had uh Smart Dollar, so got uh got tied into that and then followed the baby steps from there.

Um, so we originally bought the house and uh we were working on like side projects in the house as a little fixer upper. uh working on our side projects and then uh the spring came around uh like a year and a half into buying the house. Amber wanted to do some uh siding exterior updates and I was like so we had some money set aside for that and I was like ah let's just pause on that.

Let's pay the house off. So actually it was uh what was it for the months that we paid it off? It was >> 13 months we paid off 132,000. So we just paused all our projects and then >> put 132 away in 13 months.

>> Whoa. That last year was really intense.

Yeah. >> Very, okay. We want I want to get to these projects, so we're knocking this puppy out. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. >> Exactly. >> Wow.

Very cool. >> Yeah. I wasn't on board at first entirely. Um I really want to do that siding, but there's a point where >> it was projects that we needed to have done and projects that we didn't need to have done.

And when we sat down and Ryan's like, "This is how much we're spending on interest," it's like, "Oh my gosh, it's just insane." >> Eye opening. Yeah. >> Over the life of the loan, how much you would pay. You y'all don't realize it yet cuz you've been married four years, but most couples get to the, "Oh, I didn't know we could get through this after a major crisis." And y'all decided early on, let's tackle a big monumental thing that nobody else is doing together.

Y'all don't know this yet, but y'all have proven to yourselves there's not a thing that the two of us can't lock arms and and and tackle together over the course of your entire marriage together. It's so I'm I'm gonna smile all day because of this. This is awesome.

>> Yeah, there's so many good things that have happened to you. What you've become while you're doing this. So proud of you. Have y'all got the sighting done since y'all paid it off? >> No, that's a next spring thing. First, I upgraded my car.

>> I I was driving an '08 Impala. It had what, 210,000 miles on it.

>> That thing was so loud. It was very embarrassing. But you learn not to care what people think. >> I love it. So yeah, you needed a car.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm glad you did that. So, first goal was that. Then we'll do the siding next spring. We got And so we just start laying out now that we don't have payment in the world, we start laying out goals and knocking down goals, right? >> Yep. Exactly. >> Travel, car, siding, whatever it is.

Right. >> Right. Amber, let me ask you this.

>> Okay. I've had projects >> that start burning a hole every time I pull in the driveway. That's all I see.

I don't see the house. I don't see my awesome wife, kids. I just see that. But when you grind out another goal, >> I stop seeing it all the time.

>> Right. Does that make Has it become less a burr in your soul? >> Yeah. It's like it's worth it. It's like the house is paid for now and I can wait a year on sighting. It's okay.

>> Yeah.

>> Very good. Way to go, you guys. All right. What do you tell people that are 25 years old and they want to pay off their house? It can't be done. America is dead. The capitalism is killing everyone. It's a systemic problem. We're all stuck. Oh, wait a minute. Hold my beer. Ryan and Amber just paid off their house at 28 years old. What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is?

>> I would say by far the biggest key is to uh just forget what other people think about you. It's your own money. You're working hard for it. >> Uh do live your own life.

Live your own goals. I think we were listening to the podcast a couple weeks back and Jade said it best. She said biggest superpower you can have with money is not caring what other people think and that's so true. >> So you did have some other people that had some thoughts, huh?

>> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You definitely get weird looks.

That's for sure. >> Yeah. Yeah, cuz people know how that y'all aren't starving, right? They they know y'all are doing well and then you're they can hear your car coming 9 miles away >> and they're like, "Hey, you know, you can get a new car." >> And it's hard.

I mean, the temptation is definitely hard, but >> I mean, at the end of the day, it's worth it >> cuz when you're making that kind of money, >> you can literally on the way home pull into a dealership and go home with a new car that day, >> right?

>> And to just go home and grind it out, it's so cool, man. Hey, uh, who taught you both, cuz this is a, and again, I'm

kind of hijacking this call, this this this conversation. Who taught y'all to

sit down together and to say, "I want

this." And the other person say, "Well, I want this, and we're going to talk about this not as enemies, but as okay,

we both want different things, but we're going to come to some sort of solution." that had to have been modeled somewhere for you or y'all just are y'all even weirder than paid off house people.

Where'd y'all get that from? Did one of your Did your parents model that for you? >> My parents definitely did for me. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I'd say our parents were big models in that. >> And somebody once told me it's not you and him. It's not you versus him in a problem. It's you and him versus the problem.

>> Tada. Tada. There it is right there.

>> I know. But people told me a lot of stuff when I was 24. I didn't listen to them.

Man, that's so amazing, guys.

>> That's good. That's very good. Well done, you guys. All right, so the secret is not caring what other people think then. >> Absolutely. >> And then that frees you up to just do what you think and decide who gets a vote. And if it's not one of us, nobody else gets a vote. >> So, who was cheering you on?

>> Lots of friends, co-workers, parents, of course. Um, our biggest thing is probably just how competitive we are though because we Dave, not to like make

you as an insult, but we would call each other Davish if one of us started slacking. >> Oh, >> yeah. >> You're an ish.

>> Like a Dr. Zeus character. You're an ish. Don't be an ish. Is a

>> I like it. That's good.

>> Y the only ones in America that use Man, that's means Dave is an insult. So, you're good. That's good. I like it. I like it. I'll take it. My name gets used a lot of other ways. >> Y'all aren't the only ones that use Dave as an insult. So, >> that's that's at least a positive methodology. I'll I'll go with that.

>> Good job, you guys. Very very very good job. So, um

when your mom and dad actually realize you're actually doing this, what did their face look? I mean, like, mom, we just wrote the last check. We're done.

So my dad, I would meet him every week for lunch and I'd always tell him like where we're at and he'd be like, "Oh, I'm so proud of you." Like that was huge just to have that reinforcement all the time. But my parents actually paid their house off in four years. So I was kind of like, "We got to beat that four year." >> Oh, you are competitive, >> Dad. N Yeah, I like that. Very good.

Gosh, can I just say this to all the dads out there? How how proud is he of that? >> You want to have an amazing daughter that grows up into an amazing woman, have lunch with her every week and never let her leave the table without you looking her in the eyes and saying, "You're proud. I'm proud of you." >> Yeah.

>> Mhm. >> That's That right there. >> That's a superpower. >> That's I mean, your dad gave you everything >> and you got to Man, >> you're going to have to get pants to go all the way to the floor now, dude.

>> It's amazing. It's amazing. All right, you guys. I'm proud of y'all. We're proud of you, too, just like your dad is. Way to go, man.

>> Ryan and Amber from Minnesota. 180,000

paid off in 32 months. House and everything. They're not even 30 and they're already halfway to being Baby Steps Millionaires. They'll be there in about 20 minutes at this rate. Making 140 up to 180. Count it down. Let's hear

a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1 We're debtree.

Yeah.

[Music] Yeah, baby. That's how it's done.

[Music]

[Music]

our Our scripture of the day, Matthew 10:14. If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off of your feet. Thomas said, "You can't stop

people from saying bad things about you.

All you can do is make them liars." That's pretty good. Uh, as you well know by now, the Fed has dropped rates and mortgage rates have followed slightly.

They dropped them slightly and mortgage rates have followed a little bit. 5.71 right now for a 15-year fixed. If you're financially ready, now is a great time to buy or sell. Buying or selling an affordable home you love is possible when you work with a Ramsay trusted real estate agent. These pros are handpicked to guide you through the market and keep your financial goals top of mind. Find a trusted local pro for free at ramseyolutions.com/agents or click the link in the show notes.

Lane's in Ohio. Hi Lane. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, me and my fiance, we're 21 and 22,

still both live with our parents. Uh, we're looking to move out probably in May when she graduates college. And, uh, we don't really know if we should buy a car for her first or wait until we buy a

house, but I don't know if we buy a car if we uh, we'll have 20% down for a house. >> Uh, you can wait on the house. You need to get a car first.

It's okay. It's okay. It's okay to rent an apartment for a year and you got to save up some money. And >> if you use part of the money you've saved to buy her a car for cash, uh then you need to replenish that for your down payment fund to be full again. If that takes a year and you rent a little apartment for a year, that is not going to set you back in your life. You're going to be fine.

>> Okay. Uh do you do you uh should we put

20% down on our house or should we try to just do a FHA one?

Well, FHA has MIP, which is much like PMI. PMI is private mortgage insurance. Mortgage insurance premium is what MIP stands for. And FHA is a much more expensive loan in all the fees and the interest rates than a conventional loan. So, if you have the ability to put together 20% on your first home, you're better off to do a conventional loan than an FHA loan. But

you don't have to worry about that right now for about almost 2 years from right

now cuz she's graduating in May. You're getting married then, sounds like. And

uh then we're going to get her a car and then we're going to rent for a year and that puts you almost two years from now.

>> Yeah. >> So the the thing you need right now is one of the fruits of the spirit, a healthy dose of patience. Man, you want to give her the world. You want to give her everything. And I love that.

>> But slow down. >> Yeah. It's going to be good, man. >> Back it back it off. Slow your roll.

Nikki's in California. Hey Nikki, how are you?

>> Hi John. Hi Dave. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> Um I'm calling because um my husband and

I are in a little over $300,000

worth of debt. Um about $120 of it is

IRS debt. And um my fault. Um, but I I

know you say, you know, do whatever you need to do to break away from the IRS.

Um, they sent notices for leans and

levies and all that.

>> So, um, we've set up a payment plan.

>> Um, but >> I am wondering how desperate we need to

get in this situation.

>> Very. Um, what what's your household income?

Uh, we make about 350,000.

>> Okay. Why pretel do? Do you owe the IRS

120 then?

>> Well, okay. So, I uh was previously

divorced. Um, and at that time, I'm I'm a nurse now. I'm I'm making money now, but at that time, I was not. I had three kids. I literally just put my head down and worked and worked and worked just to keep a roof over our head. I did not file taxes probably for about four years. Um >> Oh, okay. And now you've gone back, you've gotten remarried and now you've gone and filed.

>> Uh yes, I went and filed and then our income together is just way too much. So obviously we owed that first year. So yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. And what's the rest of the $300,000 in debt?

Um, so we've got about a hundred in

student loans >> and the rest of it is uh credit cards and um personal loan.

>> Okay.

All right. And so you've got $80,000 in

credit card debt.

>> Uh, yep. About that.

>> How long y'all been married?

>> We just got married in 23. June of 23.

Okay. And who brought the credit card debt?

Um well, so I mean we both had some um I

had >> Has it continued to grow after you got married?

>> Uh no, we've been we've been paying it down since. Um so we've gotten rid of

several. >> All right. So you here's where we are today. Today you make 350,000. You got $300,000 in debt.

>> And what part of California do you live in?

>> The Bay Area. The most expensive part.

Absolutely you do. Okay. All right. And how much is your house payment?

>> Uh 5,000.

>> And what's your house worth?

>> Uh about 780.

>> And >> we just bought it in 23. So we bought it for 750.

>> Well, it's probably worth more than 780 then if you bought it in 23.

>> Well, that's what Zillow Well, Zillow.

>> Zillow says. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, let's go with 900. And what do you owe on the house?

Um about 6 620 maybe. >> Okay. All right. So, you guys are living right on the edge on everything.

Everything's got a payment on it.

Everything's locked down. Um we make 350,000 and we feel broke.

>> Pretty much. >> Yeah. Okay.

And it's not a super expensive house for San Francisco. I mean, that's a cheap house. Really? Right.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, what do you do for a living? You're a nurse. What's he do?

>> Uh, he's a manager.

>> Manager. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Well, uh, what I'm going to do is buckle down and live on nothing.

Pretend like I am broke because you are.

And I'm going to cut up all the credit cards. We're not going to use them anymore. We're going to do a written budget every month. You and your husband. You don't make 350,000. you make 50,000 and you need to pay off 300

worth of debt. Or you make a h 100,000 and you're going to pay off $250,000 worth of debt and be debtree in about 2 years starting with the blessed IRS and

then work your way through a debt snowball on the other stuff um after you

get rid of the IRS. But um you guys need to go pay them like your hair is on fire and get them out of your life because the penalties and the interest that they're charging you are the worst on the planet and they have almost unlimited power to come and mess with your life even when you're on a payment plan. They might make a clerical error and put a lean on your house even though you're on a payment plan. They can if they want to.

And so what I want you to do is get them out of your life like your life depended on it. So, I think what's happened is is you guys are living a bay lifestyle and you're eating up your 300 grand and you're not making much progress on this debt.

as if you lived somewhere else and didn't have a life because you don't.

You're broke. Act like it. And attack this debt with a vengeance.

>> Yeah. And I hear in your story, Nikki, and even in your voice, that fear of that single mom who was just put her head down and tried to keep a roof over the head of her of her babies during a really chaotic time. Um,

it would be easy to say, "You shouldn't have spent all that yada yada." I just want to say I'm proud of you for getting through that four years. And it's easy to think I got my degree. I'm a nurse. I

married a guy who makes a good income. Together, we have a good income. and to take your foot off the gas. And I want you to let that woman who's been grinding it out finally be free. And that means you got two years of hitting the gas. And I'm telling you on the other side of this, with nothing but a house payment, making $350,000, you're going to finally feel that peace you've been craving for so many years.

But there's no other way than through this thing. So just get through it as fast as you possibly can. No restaurants, no fancy cars, and everyone's going to be like, "I thought you were." Yep. As for me, in my house, we will not be owned by anybody. And one

way, I'll say it again. There's only one way through it. Only one way, and that's through it. Just get through it as fast as you possibly can. That puts us the

Ramsy Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

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## 254. You Can’t Build Wealth Until You Build Stability | November 7, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:59:36 |

---

Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show.

>> [music] >> Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at8255225.

John's in Orlando. Hey, John. How are you?

>> Hey, uh, Mr. Ramy's, it's nice to meet you. Um, so I've actually struggled to keep, uh, steady employment over the past decade. I've been fired several times due to personality and behavioral challenges. You know, I've got over 70 grand in federal student loans. Uh considering joining the Navy as an officer, but to pay off debt and to build a career. At the same time, I'm considering joining starting a podcast with my friend Ben, but I'm unsure what

to do. Um I've I wouldn't be alive today

without God and uh my parents funding me, but at 40 years old, I'd like to be independent. At this point in time, no employer will hire me. Even lowpaying jobs that you have suggested other people do to build a work record. I'm not sure what to do. What What kind of advice can you give me to help me out?

>> How many jobs in 10 years? It's >> actually 11 years, but 14.

>> 14 jobs in 11 years. You're 40. So, what'd you do before 29?

Well, I was actually I spent eight years uh in, you know, in college because I I made a mistake early on in my life. I didn't have a plan. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. I had a a brief window of time where I had good grades, but that was only, you know,

>> I go back to the other then. Thank you.

I go I go back to the other then. You had 14 jobs in 11 years. So, it's not even a year each. Uh, and you said behavior and personality challenges

>> cause you to lose your jobs. Is that what you said? >> Yeah. So, I have a disability. I have a personality dis disability. Um, and it it took me many years to figure that out through different neurological assessments. Um, >> what is your what is the diagnosis?

>> Uh, NPD um is what I've been told I

have. Um, but I was my my mom believes

uh you when I was I was vaccinated when I was a kid and my body rejected the vaccine and it caused me to have

epilepsy when I was younger and ADD and

a few and >> so how does this manifest itself in the workplace? Like you're just a butt.

>> Uh, so what it's caused me to do is challenge authority to be a difficult employee to work. >> What you describe would be normally I would think belligerance.

Yeah, I guess you could put that in in that category. >> Is it episodes, John? When it happens, like when it occurred, do you are you aware of it? Like it when it's happening or how does that work? Because I'm just trying to figure out the tools to put in place for your life going forward to be able to function in society, right? I mean, to be able to to hold a job.

>> Well, hold a relationship of >> haven't been able to function in society. >> Yeah, that's that's the point. And the Navy's not Navy doesn't do well with people who have trouble with authority.

>> Yeah, I I realize that >> that's going to be that's going to be a nasty that's going to be a nasty conflict. Um I mean that it the whole

military thing is authority. You know that. So um >> it's command structure and you will respect that even if your commander is an idiot. So um Wow. Okay. So are you

are you getting help with this in some way? Some because I I wish Dr. Deloney was here today cuz Rachel and I are going, "Oh, no." But um yeah, but the I

mean, is there some is there a treatment for this where you can become functional?

>> Uh honestly, no. Um there's no cure for

it. Um I've proposed an idea to uh cuz

according to research, uh the reason why people have NPD is because of low gray matter in the brain. I think that it can be cured with nanobots that you can you can inject nanobots in the body and then have it have them programmed to heal the frontal cortex of the brain. >> Yeah, we just we just left my page. I'm I'm I just you just left me behind at the airport, dude.

>> But yeah, but no, there's no there's no support really what I what I you know just from a common sense your older brother talking to you, listening to you who loves you.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And and so I'm trying to find some way that you create a sustainable

life for for for uh that that allows you

to be employed, that allows you to be engaged in other relationships, that allows you to do those things.

of tools of awareness. I do this, I do that to at least be able to withstain

like just a 9 to5, right? To to be able

to have any level of function. Has anyone given you any tools at all or are you just kind of >> sure any kind of formology?

>> Yeah, I mean I have been given tools, but uh one of the things that happens when I go into these jobs is I I bring bitterness from previous jobs into it

and kind of self-sabotage at the early stage. and they already have this um

I don't know how to say this, but they they already know they can see my resume that I haven't kept jobs. They're kind of >> looking my mind self-fulfilling prophecy. That's logical. That makes sense. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, dude, the answer is that

this is above Rachel and my paygrade.

Um, I don't know how to answer your question because the answer to your question is to find some healing

so that you can hold a job, so that you can hold a quality relationship. Um, because um, there's not a career path.

And self-employed people oftenimes become self-employed because they can't do anything else. But it doesn't keep you from having to struggle with that because your customers are going to experience what your bosses were experiencing. And you're not going to have any customers. I mean, if you're my mechanic and you're a butt when I'm the customer, then you're not my mechanic anymore and you go out of business. So, I mean, you fix my heat and air, but you're a butt. Well, you're not my heat and air guy anymore. Okay? And so, um,

you know, if that's how it's if belligerance is how this is manifesting, which I I'm not an expert in your area, so I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm just listening to you as a friend and saying, uh, I'm going to be in the therapy realm. I'm going to be talking to Dr. John Deloney, which I will put you on hold. will try to make you a caller on his show.

>> Yeah. Well, and we have found people that are successful when they have very

obvious limitations, whether it's a mental illness, a physical illness, a disability. You know, we talk to people in the show and they are, you know, legally blind, but yet they're making $150,000 a year because they figured out something that got them a job and they figured it out. So, there is a level that I don't want John, the thing I would not want for you is playing into any level of victimhood.

>> That this is a horrible thing, but people do have serious setbacks, but they overcome them and we talk to them on this show all the time. And so, I don't know what that looks like for you.

>> Create a predictable environment >> 100%. So that's what I'm saying though is don't don't fall victim to this.

>> No. >> And make excuses. So that that's where the work of the healing and the proactive, you know, being proactive in that way is going to be your next step.

It has to be. >> Uh but I think it is possible. I think there's something that you can do honestly, John, to find healing [music] and to be a productive member of society. >> I do too. I think there's something other than nanobots. Hold on. Christian will pick up. We'll get you hooked up with uh Deloney.

>> [music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them. They don't know what to do next. >> Me, too.

I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow.

That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[music] Jacob is in Atlanta. Hi, Jacob.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, so I'm kind of in a predicament. Um,

I'm having to move out. Um, I'm only 21.

Uh, I make 35 an hour

um, at my 40hour job and then I get to

do my own side work on Fridays and Saturdays. and

I've got I owe 2,900 on my truck and I have $1,000 in credit card debt and never

been on my own. So, I guess I'm just kind of nervous about >> being out on your own. What What caused you having to move out?

>> Um, so funny story. I actually live with my

ex and her parents at the moment.

>> Your ex?

No, my ex-girlfriend.

>> Okay. So, you you >> when did y'all break up? >> I'm sorry. >> Um, we broke up in February of this year. >> And you've been living with your ex-girlfriend's parents for this long.

>> Yes. >> Oh my gosh. Jacob blinked twice. Are you okay? >> Awkward. [laughter] >> Yes, I I'm okay. Um, it it's no,

>> but you got to get out. I would assume that her parents are like, >> "Wow, these are some unusual humans." >> Very nice. >> They are nice. They sound very nice.

Humans. >> They're weird. >> Just >> Yeah. Number one, that you were in there in the first place living with their daughter under their roof. That's weird.

Number one. Super weird. Y'all break up and then they don't throw your butt out.

Yeah. That's super weird. Okay.

>> We uh we didn't I we built like a a tiny

house at their house for >> Okay. Well, on their property. Excuse me. Maybe the roof didn't extend over.

>> That maybe makes [laughter] it a little bit better. So, you're out on your own for the first time and you're 21. Are you So, are you out now or you're moving out? >> Yeah. Have you you've been there for Febru February? How much money have you saved, honey?

>> Well, I've only got >> I've got $4,000 saved.

>> Okay. So, go get an apartment.

Um, well, I I found a house that's rent

to um rent to own. >> You don't need rent to home. >> Straight from the owner. >> You need nonhomelessness.

That's all you need. Don't be homeless.

That's it. >> Go get a cheap one-bedroom apartment and get your butt out of weird

>> as soon as you can. and then plug

yourself into a good church and uh we'll

get you on to every dollar and get your money stuff working for you and let's start making every dollar that you have behave. You should have more than $4,000 because you have no overhead and I don't know where your money's been going since February, but you make enough money, you should have a stack of cash right now.

>> I haven't always had this job since February. >> Oh, good. Okay, that makes more sense then. Okay. >> I've had this job for about two months.

So, >> okay. Would you agree with me that if you make 35 an hour for 40 hours plus side hustle, you should be able to stack some cash if you keep keep your rent cheap and go ahead and knock these two debts out pretty quick.

>> Yes, I've been I've been saving about $1,000 a week. >> Ah, there you go. That's my man. Okay, good. >> And the house that I'm looking at renting is it's $1,000 a month. It's pretty cheap around here.

>> Yeah, that'd be real cheap around Atlanta.

So, >> are you and making sure too that when you're doing that that you're not signing yourself into this idea that you have to buy this house either. I don't want you locked into anything weird.

>> So, making sure contractwise you can get out. >> I mean, I Yes, I can get out, but I also feel like the house would be a bit of an investment because >> No, you don't need an investment. You're 21. You have $4,000 and $3,000 worth of

debt.

>> You don't need an investment right now. You need a place to live and not be homeless and not be in the middle of weird. So, let's get your life like sustainable and some on a rhythm that's

normal before we start talking about investing.

Okay? So, no, I actually would not do this house deal. I smell a rat. Okay? I

I want you to get an apartment that's $1,000 or less for a one-bedroom and get

out and have no human beings bothering you, no weird crap swimming around in your head. It's just you, some bread, some milk, some electricity, and go to work. Get the truck paid off, get the credit card paid off, start stacking some cash, build Jacob a life to where

you can stand with your shoulders square with a pocket full of money and no debt, and then we can talk about really becoming a millionaire, building some wealth, and you're going to be able to do all of that. But we've got to get you so far away from where you are to even get you to zero. You're you're you're subterranean right now. You're at ne you're you're at a negative 32 degrees.

I got to get you up to zero before we can get you warm.

Okay. >> Okay. And >> and so there's so much crap in your life that you've got to clean out. And so I if if you were my uh nephew or my son, I

would I would put my arm around you. I'd walk you into a great church there in Atlanta, Georgia, that's got some good men in it that can walk along beside you and say, "Hey, here's how you be a man.

Here's how you walk with God. here's how you handle your money. Let's get you out of debt. Let's get you in a sustainable boring situation. And then that's where

you build exciting from. You don't build exciting from desperation. You build it from boring. Let's get up to boring first. And and so go get you a simple one-bedroom. Don't try to buy a house. Don't do the rent own thing. I'd pass on it. And dude, this freaking week, get

out of there right now. [laughter] Right now. We're cheering for you, Jacob. >> Wow. You can do it. You can do it, man.

>> Here's to Jacob. >> This is Wow.

>> I cannot imagine the percentage of human beings that allow this a person that

broke up from their girlfriend to stay on their property for 9 months. I don't understand. I don't understand being there in the first place, but I I don't I said that already, but the the um the likelihood No, no, no, no.

>> Well, less about the parent. It would be more for me if you like if I'm him. I don't want to be there. >> Yeah. >> Going into the >> kitchen, you know what I mean? You're like, "Hi, >> Sally. Sorry, me and >> Ashley broke up." You know, like, I mean, that's just weird. All right, here we go. Jacob, we're for you.

>> Yeah, we want you to win. We want you to win. But yeah, you got you're also processing all the emotions of this and a separate clean location that doesn't have a complication to it >> of any kind like rent to own or in-law former in-law sort of um all that stuff is going to clean your mind out. And that's what I mean by boring. That's what I want to lead you towards. Melissa's in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey Melissa, what's up?

>> Hi Dave and Rachel. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

So, I work for a home health agency. Um,

they put me on a bonus structure where I'm now making 5% on the incremental

above my quota. As long as I hit my quota, I get 5% of the gross profit above my quota. Um, and they pull it

pretty much to the end of the year. They cap my bonus at 2500 a quarter and then

they're going to pull and whatever is left over, I'll get a lump sum at the end of the year. I'm wondering um if I

should take that lump sum and invest it back into the company for equity or if I

should focus on paying off my mortgage, which is my last remaining debt.

>> Regardless of whether you have a mortgage, regardless of whether you have a mortgage or not, you do not invest into a small business where you're a minority shareholder.

>> Okay? >> Because you have absolutely zero control.

You could wake up six months later, the owner starts doing cocaine, runs a thing into debt, runs the whole thing into zero, and all your money's worth zero, and you have absolutely no governmental say. You the governance documents when you're a minority shareholder. In other words, if you don't own 51%, your vote don't count.

>> Okay? >> And they can vote for stupid and you have to stand there and watch it.

>> So, it's like a single It's like almost investing in a single stock. >> It's worse.

>> It's worse. Okay. because you can't get out of it.

>> And I have a follow-up question for you, Dave. Um, we have we have a pretty significant mortgage. Um, we have like 650,000 left on the house. We have about

410 in a brokerage account. Um, 200 in our 401ks, um, and a small emergency fund. Um,

and it does put a lot of stress on us, the the amount we pay in the in the mortgage and the taxes. Um, would you recommend anything on how to make should

I >> I mean, you sound like you've been listening a while and you know we're going to tell you to take the 410 and put it on the mortgage. You knew that, right? >> Okay. >> I think so. But it's scary to do.

>> It's also scary to have 650,000 breathing down your dad gum neck, >> right? >> Yeah. I put the 410 on it refinance and get you um current current rates are down. Let's get let's get the thing refinanced. Get your newort bonus at the end of this year too, Melissa. That's going to be some extra cash to throw at it, too. So, >> yeah, >> it's great. >> Yeah, invest in something you can control the outcome and or get out of.

Minority shareholder positions aren't one of them.

[music]

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You ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still like a rat in the wheel? You're not getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone. Our own Jade Washaw

Ramsey personality has a brand new book out called What No One Tells You About Money: The Real Key to Getting Unstuck from Someone who's been there, done that, got the t-shirt, right? >> Yeah. Got the t-shirt, wore it out, gave it to Goodwill. [laughter] >> I'm telling you.

There we go. Good looking cover on there, too. Good looking cover. I like it.

So, you just got back from LA. You've been out doing book tour stuff. >> That's right. Promoting it.

>> You were out there doing a podcast, I guess. >> That's right. >> What were y'all talking about on that about the book? >> Um, yeah.

Ellen Fischer, great podcast if you haven't seen it. Yeah.

We give we give them a plan. We give them a b the baby steps. It's very logical. It's very practical.

It's very number heavy, but it's not usually the numbers that are the problem. You know, when you start working that plan, you do come against different emotions because we're asking you to change your behavior. Yeah. And whenever we're talking about changing your behavior, you know, the the child inside comes out, right?

And there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of frustration. Some of us are dealing with a lot of guilt and frustration, uh, guilt and shame, pity, so many things.

solve it and therefore a lot of us get stuck. >> Yeah. I love that you wrote about this though because I'm like, it just brings the humanity to the system, right? And we talk so much about >> emotions on the show in the sense that uh we know it's we're dealing with people, right? And I do think a lot of people in the financial space, they do like they talk numbers all all day long.

And I do feel like that is something that is so true and it resonates with people because they are waking up and and and what they are feeling, what they are thinking that day is going to drive their choices and decisions. And so you kind of like hitting that straight on is so smart. >> I mean, absolutely. Think about the advice that we give here every day.

We're telling people, "Hey, you're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working at one." Uh, a lot of times we're giving people tough news like, "Hey, you might need to sell your home." This is not something that in one second you're okay with. This is something that you take home, you tell your spouse, you're mulling it over, you you're feeling a type of way about it, >> all the logistics, >> all the logistics. That's right. Um, in the book, I talk about when Sam and I were walking the baby steps.

we were paying off long time frame 7 and a half years and at one point I had just gotten so frustrated because uh the bill

collectors were calling me and it was just like two steps forward one step back and I realized in that moment with

all my trying to do good I was leaving out pieces of the plan and I wasn't doing it exactly >> as it stated. And a lot of us come up against that. we're like, I feel like I'm doing everything right. Why am I not going forward?

And you kind of hit that wall and you want to give up. But then if you step back and you kind of do a little bit of an audit, you go, wait a minute, I am missing something here. For us, it was uh instead of paying minimum payments on all the debt and then putting, you know, everything else on the smallest debt, we were just taking all the money and putting it on the smallest debt. Well, yeah, you're going to have a problem, right?

So sometimes we're so excited about moving forward, we're leaving things out, we're doing things wrong, and that can cause frustration. And I talk about that in the book. >> Yeah. The um because you don't get traction.

>> That's right. >> Anytime you're have set a goal to move from a place to another place, the thing that starts you is hope. >> Yes. >> And the thing that keeps you going is hope.

But you lose hope if you're not making progress. >> That's right.

That's just weird. >> Yeah. I call that toil with no traction in the book. It's when your results aren't matching your efforts and that's frustrating.

And then there's the fear part, right? Where we're asking people to change and and do things in their life to have an outcome that many of us have never actually seen in real life. I remember when Dave I used to listen to Dave on the radio when when I was going through our debtfree journey and he was talking about buying cars and cash and one day you'd be able to pay off your house and one day you'd be a millionaire. I never saw that.

>> So, there was this part of what he's saying makes a lot of sense to me, but this guy better be right because I'm about to embark on serious life change and if it doesn't pan out, so there's this what if what if I do all of this and it still doesn't work. Is it going to be worth it? What if I make all these changes? You know, I I'm working extra instead of going to my kids recital.

I'm working extra instead, right? Yes. It better be worth it on the other end. And so, there's a lot of fear of the unknown, a lot of fear of change.

I talk about that in the book and how to cross. three chapters in the book called It's a Pain in the butt. [laughter] >> It's a pain in the butt to change. It's hard.

>> Yes. Yes. Well, and that's scary. I'm like when you're doing something that is so different and so new.

>> Mhm. >> We all feel that, right? Or you're like, you're you're you're entering into a whole new world. >> When you ride a bicycle the first time, it's anxiety. >> Yeah. And you're good at this and I don't want to not be good, right? And so you feel like you're kind of going backwards in that sense cuz you're like, no, I'm good at this even if what I'm doing is at least [laughter] I know.

>> Yes. I know how it feels >> and changing that is hard. >> So, what no one tells you about money is

the new book from Jade Waw. And this is

from someone who's actually done it. So, if um you know, if you don't like theory, you'll like this book. I like practical application. I you know, I want to find somebody who did it and won. This is what it looks like to win.

Ask her and her and Sam. They they pulled this off. Pre-order right now for $24.99 and get over $100 in free bonus items including the enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade Wajo, and uh

you can book exclusive 3-week online book club, which includes live Q&A with

Jade. And Jade is one of the personalities that does this show every day in case you hadn't noticed for some reason or another, hadn't been around here or you're new this week. Um, and so she knows how to answer the questions and um, uh, not only she done it personally, but she's been sitting at this desk answering questions for a couple of years now and doing a great job. So, you can pre-order right now at ramseyolutions.com/store.

So, I know when Rachel and I have written books and um, this is a fabulous book. I I remember going through the uh, the manuscript a few months back when we were building the thing, you were building it and I get to look at it because I'm a CEO. Um, [clears throat]

I was thinking, um, this is a book about

hope, but not, uh, fake hope.

>> Yeah. >> Where real hope comes from.

>> Well, that's the thing here. Um, I really wanted to shoot people straight and and not dillydally around the reality of what you're going to face.

And so when you read this book, you're going to go you're going to go on an emotional ride because I I'm telling stories in it that I've never told anybody about some of the things you can

encounter, some of those real emotions that pop up when you're working with a spouse, >> when you're dealing with uh guilt and shame over past mistakes. Mhm.

>> How many times do we take calls on the Ramsay show when one spouse has brought in an inordinate an inordinate amount of debt and the other spouse has to say, "Okay, I'm on board." Right?

>> Um how how often do we deal with situ that was me, that was Sam and I. How often do we deal with situations where uh you know a spouse has gambled or they've you know made bad choices with money, a bad business plan, right? Those are real things that really affect or you know you're ready to start a family but you've got this debt. That was one of the stories in the book from our side.

You know um we would never tell anybody that you can't have a family with you know if you have debt but for Sam and I we decided we're going to wait and there was a lot of emotion that went along with that.

telling you what you're going to face.

It's also showing you exactly how to work through it because one thing at Ramsay is we're going to give you a plan. We're going to tell you exactly what to do next. And that's what I do in this book. I'm helping you see the problem for what it is because it's like the old adage, you can't solve a problem without admitting there is one, right?

And then so once you see, oh man, that might be me. I think she's describing what I'm going through now. I'm showing you and here's exactly what you do next.

We talk about things like daily habits.

We talk about ways to set uh daily rewards. We talk about all the different things uh to keep you motivated to pull you out of those stuck places. So anybody who's ever been stuck, this book is for you. >> It's so good. Oh, y'all go get this book. Seriously, go order it today because and I'm such a reader. I love I do. I love to read and I love to read books where there is a subject matter and this one obviously is money.

>> And to put myself in a position of that author and the fact that you're so honest in this and you bring such a story element to it of what you guys walk through, I'm like regardless of where you are financially, you're going to relate >> in this book. You're going to find something in this book. Not only that you feel like, okay, that is me, but also it's going to show you where to go.

It's aspirational of like you you're at the end, right? From the quote unquote baby step, like it's like, hey, yeah, like you've done it. You've walked through all of this. [music] And so whether you are starting this journey, you're at the end. Seriously, this book is for you. What no one tells you about money by Jade Warshaw. Love you, Jade.

Thank you so much. >> We'll be shipping them in a couple of months. So, uh, get about 45 days for the ship. That's right. And so, you can pre-order right now and get the deal.

$24.99.

What? No one tells you about money from

trade wash >> in a good Christmas gift. So just get a

get a get a box of them. Hand them out to your friends. [laughter]

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Well, a couple years ago, George Camel brought in a couple of YouTube videos and said, "You got to watch this guy. He is redefining generosity." And uh I got

to meet Jimmy Darts on the small screen the first time and uh then Jimmy was in town I don't know Jimmy what a couple years ago first time you came back.

>> It was sometime last year somewhere. I know the years blend together but >> yeah it starts running together with the miles you're putting on the airplane man. >> Yeah. >> So uh this Jimmy is a star in the world of social media particularly YouTube and a champion of kindness and generosity.

Uh as a social media influencer he's known for his heartwarming random acts of kindness. You've seen him on CNN, Fox News, Today Show, and the Ramsey Show here. This is the second time he's been with us. Uh he does an incredible job of walking up to someone, asking for their help, someone who obviously needs help.

And uh excuse me, ma'am, can you give me $5 or something like that, right? And then when they do, he ends up giving them uh in some cases a lot of money.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Usually, you know, $500 to $1,000, that's kind of the seed form. um the video goes up and then it's really up to the public how much they want to bless him. And so yeah, it can be anywhere from 50 grand to last week. I think a couple weeks ago we raised over 400,000 for a guy. So >> what was his what was his situation?

>> Uh yeah, he was uh homeless living in his car with his wife. They was uh traveling pastor doing ministry with their one-year-old and he uh he actually passed the honesty test. So I went up to him, asked him for help, and he went, "I seen your videos. I know who you are.

I'm not going to fake like I don't." So, I was like, "Shoot, I'm going to have to leave. I can't help this guy." And then I was like, "Wait, actually, he just passed the honesty test." So, [laughter] sure enough, we blessed him. But, it's uh it's an honor getting to travel around and just see that there really is good people in this country. >> Yeah, for sure.

Well, and it's so encouraging how well your stuff does because I feel like it shows that people want to see that content. You know what I mean? Like the amount of views and stuff that you get and what you've built >> just shows people are craving generosity. They're craving to see good in the world, I think.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there's I've been blown away from laundry mats to Walmart aisles to anywhere and everywhere you can think of just uh the kindness of people. Um and it's it's just so cool to see because in that moment when they're kind and I say, actually, I don't need your help. I want to bless you. It's like a mirror is is shown to their face and they realize, wait, they actually realize they're a good person. You know, like we're all obviously, you know, we need a savior.

We're born into sin. but to understand that man, we're also made in the image of God and that even through I'm going through a struggle, they realize that they were generous. And so that's why I think the blessing hits so hard. And it's really the opposite of of uh the lottery. You know, the lottery usually lands on a foundation of greed because they're trying to get rich where these blessings land on the foundation of generosity because these people are giving when they get the blessing.

>> 10 days ago, his first new book hit the streets and it's already a bestseller.

undercover kindness, saying yes to love, no to fear, and embracing the life-changing power of ordinary generosity and uh absolutely incredible.

So, what caused you to I know the answer to this, but I'll give you the underhand pitch. What caused you to start this whole thing with radical generosity?

>> Yeah, man. Uh really my parents when I was a kid, I was 10 years old, and uh they said, "Hey, Jimmy, for Christmas, instead of just doing gifts, we're going to give you $200 in cash." So, I was jumping up and down doing back flips off the coach and my dad goes, "Settle down.

You got to give half of it away to a stranger." And I'm like, "What? A tie is 10%. What do you mean half of it?" And so, sure enough, we're driving through the city and I see this guy freezing out in the cold and I get out of the car, hand him $100 and just the look on his face knowing he could get a meal that night, he could get a jacket. I got back in the car and, you know, I'm sitting here today.

I'm 29 years old. That was 19 years ago. And the crazy thing is I have no idea what I bought with the other $100, but I know the face and the look on that man's face. And so I think my parents instilled it into me.

And then also just the gospel when you really understand that Jesus gave, you know, God gave his one and only begotten son. So of course I can give five bucks out of my pocket. You know, if I really believe that God did that for me, it can't help but explode your heart for other people. >> Yeah.

And the joy that comes through it, you know, generosity, it's a big message for us. Like we talk about even at Ramsey like when you're doing your budget it's the first line item in the budget for every dollar >> because we believe in that principle so much to the point that you know we know that the that people when you're handling your money you are a person inside like the soul inside of you the character inside of you is the person actually handling it. And when your character changes and you become a selfless person through the act of generosity and giving, you know, there there is such there's such joy and such meaning and purpose in that.

It's a really beautiful thing. >> Yeah, absolutely. When people are generous, like you said, their character begins to change. And what do they see?

They notice, oh, when they're doing their job at serving tables or driving Uber, when they're a kinder person, that people want to tip them more. When they're a more happy person, people want to say, "Hey, you want to come in on this business deal with me?" So, generosity and just Yeah. your character really just attracts more blessing.

>> Yeah, it's beautiful. So talk about the difference in generosity and how stewardship is woven into that because when you're talking walking up to someone who's on the skids and you give them 50 or 100 grand. Um

how how are you doing that quote unquote responsibly because you don't you don't necessarily need to say yes. You could just go I'm just doing it. Shut up. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

So 99% of the time when we raise money for someone, it's usually for a specific reason. So when we were here back in Nashville, there was a lady who her son

needed um you know, like a heart transplant. It was something um with with her baby's health. And so she had to leave her job. She was staying at the hospital.

Her husband lived like an hour away. And so you know, she's stuck here draining their savings account. And so we were able to get her capture her story, raise like 50 grand for her. and we just saw her video come in a couple of weeks ago.

It was uh like a year later. She sent me a video carrying the baby out of the hospital.

So, usually when we raise money, it's for a specific cause or situation. But, uh really, you know, the key is God calls us to give. And I think so many times people are always caught up in, well, what if I give this guy $5 or that? What's he going to do with it?

Well, the truth is we're just called to give. we're not responsible for every single thing they do for it. It's like God loves the crap out of us and he forgives us and loves us and loves us and if if he was to pull back his love on us cuz we made a mistake, that'd be crazy, you know? And so I think really people we just need to focus on, man, go out there, love somebody, be generous, obviously be smart and wise with how you do it, but just go and do it and it'll actually change your heart probably more than the person you're blessing.

>> Yeah, for sure. That's so good. You know, and what's weird is the amount is not what matters as much when you are the giver.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. A lot of people are like, "Man, when I have this much money or this or that, I'm going to give I'm going to be generous." And the truth is, you actually probably won't. You know, like you can start today. Let's say you got 10 bucks to your name. Well, find a quarter, buy someone a gumball. You know, like you you start doing that now.

The Lord's like says, "Be faithful a little and you'll be given much." And he knows if you can't be faithful a little, you're not going to be faithful with much. >> Yeah. When you started this channel, it was on YouTube to start with first and you're on everything now, of course. What's your primary channel now where people? >> Uh, probably Instagram is probably the main place now. Yeah. >> Yeah. At Jimmy Darts, D A R Ts. The new

book is Undercover Kindness. Uh, saying yes to love and no to fear and yes to generosity big time. But I remember the story you were telling me before the um we got just a minute but quickly how you got started with nothing on you pop up a

camera and here we go. >> Yeah, absolutely. I just uh I was talking to my dad on the porch and he goes, "What do you want to do with your life?" And at the time I was working at his restaurant. So I realized, well, I guess it must not be working for you.

And uh he goes, "Uh, what do you want to do?" I go, "Man, if I could be Santa Claus year round, just go around, share the gospel, love on people, give away cars and houses, I'd love to do it. but there's nowhere on Craigslist to apply for that. And he just looks at me and he goes, "Start tomorrow." And I was like, "What do you mean start tomorrow?" And I actually was like, "Man, the world has amazing drive, but sometimes lacks purpose. And the church has great purpose, but a lot of times lacks drive.

If I can put drive and purpose together, I think I can make something happen." And so I got in my car, started going around the country, um, and yeah, just spending time with people, whether that was having a conversation with a guy, asking someone for a hug, and it started with $10, $20, and just kept climbing and climbing. And so you really can start tomorrow and go after it, get after it, and and do it with the Lord, and you'll be amazed at what he can do.

>> It's one of the biggest shows on the social media platform, and it's all about generosity, all about loving people. Well, the new book is Undercover Kindness from my good friend Jimmy Darts. Proud to say I know you, brother.

Yeah, thanks so much. I couldn't do it without you. If I was in a snowball of debt, I wouldn't even be able to think straight. So, my [laughter] dad put me on you a while ago. >> Oh, Jimmy, congrats on the book.

Absolutely amazing. Amazing.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today and my daughter. Open Phones at88255225.

Britney's in Los Angeles. Hi Britney, how are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Rachel. Thank you for taking

my call. I am in a bit of a pickle right

now. I bought a house a year ago and I am in a bit of a financial rut. So, I'm

wondering if I should sell my house or

if I should put it um up for rental.

>> Is this your primary home, Britney?

>> Uh, yes and no. It's kind of complex. I

did buy it as a primary. However, I did

have the intent to also, well, the intent to live in it, but also I was going to Airbnb it because I do work in LA. So, it but I don't live there. My my

house is in the mountains. a cabin in the mountains. So, um, when I decided to

buy a home, I asked my mother, you know,

to help me and she has a cabin up here.

I should pre preface this by saying I also do have another cabin, but I own that one with my dad. Um, and he pays

100% for that one. I haven't had to put a dime into it upon getting it in, you

know, post. It's been about two years.

So, I was able to qualify for one on my own because of that. Um, I had the intent of getting the

house as an Airbnb whenever I'm not here. My mom's Airbnb was doing phenomenal, but I came in at the absolute worst time. I

uh when the market started dropping was earlier this year. It was pretty much right after election and I had got my permit in about February. So, I I think I heard you say in the last few minutes, >> I wish I hadn't done this.

>> Did I hear you say that? >> Yes. >> Did I hear you say that?

>> Okay. So, what's what's the cabin worth, huh? What's the cabin worth?

>> So, so the cabin is worth 3. It's what I

bought it for. >> Good. And what do you owe against it?

>> Um, I owe about 350. It was I think it's

Yeah, 350. >> Okay. So, you put almost nothing down.

Um, I did put money down, but the interest was so bad that it when I put

it down, it was like 3

53 um, at the time. >> Yeah. But you you you didn't put much down. >> No. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, you don't have a lot of equity. >> So, I'm not even sure you can if you sell it, you might not even break even.

Agreed.

>> That's agreed. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Um, yeah. I >> have you thought about putting it up for sale?

>> I have. I have a um a realtor actually

going to come over tomorrow morning because I put a lot of work into the home. So, when it got appraised, one of the things that was noted was the fact that it hadn't been touched. The house was built in like 1978. Most of the cabins up here are very old. >> So, if you've done all this work to it, why has it not gone up in value?

Um, well, I I I'm going to get the comps tomorrow. >> Oh, so you don't know what it's worth right now. Okay. >> I I don't know. I'm just going based off of what Zillow is saying. Like the market >> Zillow is not Don't use Zillow as truth.

Okay. That gross.

>> So hopefully hopefully it'll be more.

Hopefully. >> Let's pretend it's 400. >> That's what I'm hoping. >> Yeah. Let's pretend it's 400 and you and you can sell it and you sell it and your problems go away.

>> Mhm. >> Is there something wrong with this plan?

Nothing's wrong with this plan. The only thing is So that's why I'm I'm debating.

I I just don't know because I'm seeing I follow um houses on here on Zillow like

religiously. >> Yeah, you need to not addiction.

>> It probably isn't. I I like to see what houses are actually selling for versus what they're being, you know, you know, you can list it for whatever you want to list it for, but right now it's like not a buyer market. So, I'm very I'm kind of

stressed about that. I'm like, well, could I actually really >> But you're kind of stressed about keeping it, too.

>> That's true. Yeah. So listen, I think you need to really carefully define that what you did with this purchase, >> the way you did this purchase, the purpose you did this purchase for as a group, those set of ideas were bad.

>> They did not bring you a good result.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz you're stressed, you're behind on your bills, life's not good, >> nothing turned out like it did in your little dream when you were surfing Zillow, >> right? >> Mhm. And so, so now you need to reset and go, if I'm going to do real estate,

it has to be different than the way I did this. This sucks.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Sell it.

>> Yeah.

Okay. >> Sell it. I want you to have your life back. I like you.

>> Thank you. I want my life back, too. I I I do a lot in my life and have a lot of hobbies and obviously everything has to been being put on hold because I'm barely keeping up stress. Yes. Dr. John

Deloney always says solve for peace.

What creates peace in my life? This is not bringing you peace. This is bringing you stress and harm and lack of sleep because you're stressed about all of it.

Right. So So just why why would you I'm just curious from you. I that there's a little bit of the hesitation. Why? Why are you hesitant? >> She hasn't given up on the Airbnb Zillow surfing dream. >> No, actually actually I I don't care for Airbnb and I and I did say that after I got into it.

It's like it's something about and it's because most people when they do Airbnb obviously the home is a secondary home for me. I am here whenever it's not booked because like I said I own a cabin with my dad four minutes away. So I don't have personals here. It's kind of all over the place. My purse is at my mom's house. I have a bag here of things that I need. And >> that doesn't answer Rachel's question.

What's your hesitation? >> Yeah. >> Sell the hesitation is that I I bought

the house and I felt very proud of myself as a young girl. Buying a house in California is really hard. And so I'm just stressed because I'm like, am I going to be able to do this again? I went through like leaps and bounds to get it the first time. And it was really

>> you you Yeah. You you you took a lot of jumps and did a lot of dances and ran around the barn three times and clicked your heels and finally got the house and

it ended up not being anything like you thought it was going to be. You forced a situation. I am proud of you for getting something done, but I was your age when I went broke and because I did it wrong.

You don't have to go completely broke.

Thank God. you can just dump this thing and learn your lesson and go, "The way I did this, the set of assumptions I used to make this decision were wrong."

>> And Britney, >> everybody makes mistakes. >> And yes, buying a home is a great thing, and we want that. I think that's a that's a smart decision in life, but that's not who you are, right? I feel like you're you're tying your identity to this decision that you've made. And for some reason, if you go back on that, it's like you're a failure or something.

Like you who you are, your net worth is not your self worth. this is it's not it doesn't equal who Britney is and so separating those things out and saying this is who I am with a house or not with a nice car or not with a second home or not like you are who you are and then all of these other things are additions in your life and we want to make sure the things that are additional in your life are blessing you and are

good for you and not taking away. So this is this may feel like a step back for you but it's not. I think it's a learning idea and you will buy a house again. I really do believe that Britney, you will.

But you just have to be smart about it and just to be able to have the humility to say, "Yeah, this was not a smart decision [music] right now, but it's not who you are. You're not a failure." Right? And so, you got to separate those two things.

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Andrew is in Washington DC. Hi, Andrew.

How are you? >> Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> And thanks for taking my call. Sure. I uh wanted to get your advice. Um, last year in July, I had to take a trip to the emergency room. I had to get two CT scans at the time. Everything turned out to be fine, no issues. Um, but unfortunately, >> uh, because of my insurance situation at the time, the bill was not covered in

any aspect. And I am currently sitting on a $24,000 ER bill. Uh, that has now

gone to debt collection. Um the debt collector initially offered um 75% of

that payment. So like 18K uh which I was

not going to accept because I think it's just ridiculous. So I'm now on probably my third back and forth with the debt collector and I just wanted to see what kind of advice you may have for trying to improve the situation.

>> What's your household income?

>> I make around 115 every month. So >> and you have money then to write the check? I I do I could write it outright.

It's really just a principal thing for me. >> Okay. And the principle is what?

>> Uh well, number one, I'm actually trying to save up as much as humanly possible for >> the principle of why you don't want to pay them $24,000 that they say you owe is what? >> Sure. Because they charged $9,000 for

one CT scan, $8,000 for another. The remainder is the the rest of the six-hour ER visit, which uh at least in

my in some of my research seems to be well above uh the average payment for CT scans, etc. >> So, what did your research say?

>> Uh probably around 5,000 4 to 5,000 at most for CT scan.

>> Okay. >> And I am in the DC area, which means it's more expensive.

>> Okay.

Um,

were you uh incapacitated at the time?

>> No.

>> Okay.

Uh, and you knew you didn't have insurance when you went in there?

>> Well, technically I didn't. So, I was in between jobs at the time and I had purchased insurance, but I didn't realize I was outside of my 30-day window from the purchase state when I went in is the problem. I didn't read the fine print. Okay. If you ever visit a collections operation that collects medical bills, you will find people sitting in small cubicles with lots of

fluorescent lights with headsets on

calling all day long.

And these are people that couldn't get a job at a 7-Eleven.

Now, this is who you're dealing with.

>> That's correct. Yeah. And they and their average time on the job is about 30 days because as soon as they can find something better and almost anything's better, they take it. >> Sure.

>> This is who you're trying to get to negotiate with on a basis of logic and market value of a CT scan. This guy can't hadn't got two brain cells to rub together to do this deal with. So your only shot is to continue to just beat on that organization because you're probably seldom even going to talk to the same person.

of your calories are you going to burn to do this. The other only option I can think of is to call and actually try to get a meeting with someone in the administration of the hospital and sit down and say, "I don't have insurance to cover this. I thought I did when I was in there." I guess I wouldn't have cared that you were screwing my insurance company, but I do care that you're screwing me.

And so I think you ought to charge me market rate, which is half of what you're trying to charge me for a CT scan.

This is ridiculous.

And try to negotiate it, right? Or try to negotiate it and just say, you know, I had no idea what I had gotten into.

Please, you're a mercy operation. Have some mercy on me. Uh but you've got the money, so we really can't play the mercy card.

But um but I think you just try to get someone that is actually in a position to make a decision. And this bill collector is not.

>> No, but the bill collector could be negotiated with. >> Yeah. A ways. But you're not I don't think you're going to get them down to where you're going to end up happy with this. So again, I don't know how much time and effort you want to put into five grand.

>> You make 11,000 a month.

>> I'd be happy slicing it down, you know, at least to get 10K off of it is sort of my my mindset. You're right. It's already consumed so much. if you might get that from a bill collector, but I don't think they're going to have the power to do that unless unless the bill gets very very old in all that time.

Every day this sits its ding in your credit, by the way. It's an unpaid bill.

It's out for collections.

So, your credit goes down every day while if if you're worried about that. I don't worry about that personally, but um you know, but I we've had some luck sitting down in person and asking for mercy on the behalf of broke people or asking for reasonleness on the market value of something if I pay cash for a medical procedure. >> Yeah, that's why I always wonder the the moral card. I mean, I get he's frustrated because he's like, you know, there is market value elsewhere and you

could probably have a whole discussion about do things really cost all this, but there is a point that, you know, you got the service. >> Yeah. You got the service and you didn't the time to have negotiated it would have been while you're sitting there, >> right? >> What are you charging me for the CT scan?

>> Right. Right. >> You know, but I guess if you're sitting there in the emergency room, I don't know. I mean, that's a they kind of got you >> cornered in a sense.

>> Yeah. Over a barrel, so to speak.

So, I >> Yeah. Um the the only moral thing you've got is is that they're basically charging you double market >> because they can and because it's the ER >> and because it's after the fact >> which is really an immoral practice, you know, really it is. So >> yeah. >> Um so >> so is the is the good fight worth the extra fight? Because they they said he said they would take 17.

>> Yeah. >> The bill collect. You know what I mean? So if you're trying to get half to your point, it's five grand.

How much is your time? push on a little bit, but you can either push on a little bit with the bill collector or go all in and try to get try to circumvent the bill collector and go to the administration at the hospital. And again, I find very reasonable people at the administration of the hospital. I mean, we've had people going with $200,000 bills that had $2.

and you actually talk to a human.

>> You end up with an, you know, ICU bill

and u the hospital looks at them and goes, "We're not going to collect this.

So, if you'll pay us 5,000 bucks, you know, we're going to write it off as, you know, charity. >> And that's what it is. It's a gift. And we've had hospitals do that. They're generally the hospital themselves are generally usually with people financially that are in need.

>> Yeah. That's if they're in need. That's if they're in need. I I >> have, you know, I the only time I've had luck with this negotiation is on the front end, not on the back end.

>> Meaning, for instance, uh an MRI. Oh my gosh. We've actually advertised for private cash upfront MRIs on several uh

local radio stations over the years >> and it's like a fourth >> of what they charge your insurance company >> and you can walk in there for I don't know whatever it is call it a h 100red bucks instead of 400 bucks or 200 bucks instead of 800 bucks or whatever but it's nothing if you just walk in pay cash for it but if you walk in there with your insurance card they it's 4x and and then you wonder why your insurance is expensive. So, uh, but that that's, you know, that's the that world.

So, um, wow. Strange, harsh, it's tough.

Uh, uh, yeah. And, uh, the moral of the story, of course, is, uh, make sure we have our insurance in place between jobs and, be very, very diligent about all that kind of stuff. Um, Cobra, whatever else you got to do while you're making a step from one career to another. Mhm. Yeah.

Christian Healthcare Ministries is a great um place that if you are in between jobs even um they're a healthcare provider. They're like a substitute of insurance.

>> Well, and they're actually uh sponsoring uh they're one of the sponsors for this weekend's marriage and money, right? >> Yes. Money and marriage. >> Money and marriage. I got it >> backwards. Yep. The weekend with a lot of people here already that are going to be joining us. We got a couple hundred of them in the lobby watching the show today because it starts tonight and goes through the whole weekend with Rachel and uh Rachel Cruz and Dr. John Deloney.

Um, again, another sellout. This This is a huge event. >> Yeah, it's been fun. This is our gosh, I don't even know what number we've done, but it's been um Yep. Very exciting.

Always fun. We uh try to do new content >> now. Is the one is the one in February for the uh Valentine's Day one. Is it

sold out? >> No, >> not quite. Not quite yet. So, if you want to come to that, it's on campus here. And um you know, the show, by the way, is on the glass. We do the show from 1:00 to 4 every day on the glass.

And so you can sit in the lobby, get homemade chocolate chip cookies on us, get coffee that's incredible on us. And

um sit and, you know, watch the show and it's a there's always a crowd here of uh anywhere from two to 200. Sometimes there's two people, but there sometimes there's 200. Like today, there's probably 300 out there, but yeah. Uh and it's going to be a great weekend. There's a lot of uh incredible speakers lined up. Lot lot of mystery speakers.

>> I wonder who they might be. >> Going to be fun. I know >> y'all are in for a treat.

>> It's going to be great. >> Trick or treat. [laughter]

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>> [music]

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>> Today's question comes from Drew in Pennsylvania. My wife and I are 35 years old with no children yet. We are on baby step seven and have $750,000 in retirement and a half a million dollar home with a balance owed of $250,000.

Okay. So, you're not on baby step seven quite yet. Uh, I hear you talk about having enough life insurance to replace our income, but my current income is 375,000 and my wife's is a h 100,000. With no debt, is it really necessary to have insurance in place before we have children? Well, again, life insurance is there to replace your income. And you guys are living, I don't know, lifestyle-wise, I mean, you're, you know, close to half a million making that per year. And so I would consider

you self-insured once the home is if the home is paid off, that feels self-insured to me. But if something were to happen to you and your wife was making a hundred grand, could would she be okay with the mortgage? Could she pay all of that and be self-sufficient? So I No.

Yeah. So I like the idea of still having 10 to 12 times your annual income um for a buffer. And if you guys are both healthy at 35, I mean Winston and I just redid our life insurance probably two years ago and we did term life with Xander and it's just so inexpensive that a part of me is like just do it now and then once the house is paid off then you guys can have that discussion. But it's so inexpensive.

definitely still keep it because again if something happened to you, your wife makes 100 grand, you know, how what what's that stress going to be for her of having to still make that uh mortgage payment every month? you know, there's less of a burden uh on you guys than if

you had uh children and your wife did

not have a wonderful career that she has. Okay? But if something happens to you, she's in a pinch right now. That's

a lot of house for 100k.

And um so yeah, you you need to be carrying some on you. Now, if you want to do a different formula than the typical the typical formula I recommend, and Rachel just quoted it, is 10 to 12 times your income in insurance. Now, the reason for that, let's just back up. Let's pretend someone else called in.

They said, "Okay, I make $80,000 a year." So 10 to 12 times would be $800,000 to a million dollar, which on a 35-year-old is the cost of a pizza if you don't smoke and you're not fat.

Okay? It's simple. Obesity and smoking are kill your rates. All right? And so if you're in good decent shape and you don't smoke, and those are both things you can control, by the way. Hello. And so um you know now you get good rates

and it's very inexpensive to have a million dollars. Now if you got a million dollars and you die just for general this is why we have this formula. In other words um your wife is left with two little kids and they count on your $80,000 to eat with um and you

get a million she gets a million dollar check when you die. Uh you put that in good mutual funds and let's say just for easy numbers it makes 10%. 10% of a

million dollars is h 100,000 minus taxes looks a lot like what you used to make.

8 800,000 invested 10% that'd be 80,000

which is what you used to make. And so it creates that perpetually every year it will send your widow or widowerower

with the little kids what your check used to be. That's why we get the formula now. So, if you want to use that idea in this situation and say, "Well, we don't need $4 million worth of insurance on this guy cuz she doesn't have to have 400,000 his $375,000

income to eat. She's going to be okay." But let's say she that you guys looked at and said, "Well, we want to make sure she does have a h 100,000 to help her pay to go with her 100,000.

That's a $200,000 income to pay this house." >> Yeah. or you know I want to leave her enough to get some and enough to pay off the house. So you could say million dollars instead of $4 million right now >> because yeah she'd pay the house off >> and then she'd write check pay off the house put 750 in the bank in a good mutual fund with a good Smart Ver pro not the bank and um now you're making

$75,000 a year with no house payment that's a and that's really really inexpensive again. Mhm.

>> Uh and so yeah, I would do something. In other words, and here's the other thing.

Uh you're 35 years old with no children

yet.

I'll just kind of tell you from 35 years of doing this, as soon as you get the life insurance going, the kids's going to come. So, you're going to have to reup the You're going have to double the life insurance anyway. It's come. So, go ahead. Go ahead and get the million with plans to get three more million because it's coming. Yeah. You know, yet. All right, Jack is in Wyoming. Hey, Jack.

How are you?

>> I'm doing well, sir. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have um a dad who has always helped me out with pretty much everything in my life, and I'm I'm extremely grateful and I love him. I love him to death. and uh he's mentioned that my fiance and I once we get married and and we sort of decide to buy our first house um that he'd be more than willing to kind of buy it for us and then have him have him just kind of act in the bank. Um he he's mentioned no interest on that and and all the all the good things that come along with that.

how do I do it? He's

[laughter] Dave's looking at me, Jack, for me to be the bearer of bad news for you. Uh, it will change your relationship.

[clears throat] So, I mean, there's no way around it. It does. And so, when scripture says the borrower is slave to the lender, your dad is now your bank.

>> He's your master. >> And so, now it changes the relationship.

Whether you like it or not, as healthy and wonderful as the relationship is, this almost always ends up putting a strain. And so, I wouldn't do it. I would not sacrifice the most amazing relationship you have with him, which is such a gift to be a grown son and have that much respect and love and honor for your father. Keep it pure.

Keep it simple. Keep it clean. And you and your fiance, you guys, just go and and >> go have your life. >> Yes.

Go have your life. Do not eat.

>> Uh now, now let me tell you, and it will affect your wife more than it'll affect you.

>> She'll feel the she'll feel the strain in the air more than you will because you and your dad have a quality relationship. So, you won't feel it as much. All right? Uh but it's there and

it's it's an unnecessary strain for a few interest points. Now, let me give you one other question and then I'll tell you some one more thing. The um it's a great question, by the way, and I'm so happy you got such a good relationship with your dad. It's such a wonderful gift, especially in our culture today when it's more and more rare. >> Yeah. >> Um the uh

what's your dad's net worth? You any idea?

>> I I I don't, but it's I mean, he does he

does very well for himself. Um >> I mean, is that a million or 20 million?

Uh, it's probably somewhere around 10 10 to 12. >> Okay. And the house price would be about what?

>> That's that's would would have been part two of my question had we had we gotten to that point. Um, but I mean you're what are y'all thinking? I mean, if you just threw out a number >> like a 500,000 you're brand new getting married in Cheyenne, Wyoming, half million dollars to buy a great house, right? >> Exactly. Yep. >> So, if I were your dad, I might give you a house.

>> Okay. instead of being the bank.

>> A gift has not got the strings tied to it. I might ask you to uh make sure that you invest the equivalent of a house payment so that my grandkids never have debt.

You could break the He could break the cycle forever. >> I know. I feel weird for him asking his dad that. >> I know. I'm I said I might ask your dad.

I'm not sure you would, but you might play this for him. Um David, >> I might I might have just asked him. He might hear this. So, um I [laughter] mean so the the other thing is this. The other thing is this. Okay. When we went broke 35 years ago, Sharon and I lost

everything. >> Um her dad loaned us a little bit of

money to get the water turned back on

and to catch the car up so it didn't get repoed and some stuff like that. Okay.

And it was it was not a huge amount, but it was an amount of money. Okay. And he is an absolute saint. He is one of the

nicest men I have ever met on the planet. And my wife and him have a great relationship.

The fact that I owed him money drove me

bonkers until I got it paid off.

>> And so that's your wife.

That's the in-law. That's where she's sitting. I wouldn't do it. [music] >> Yeah. Just keep it clean, Jack.

>> [music]

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Riley is in North Carolina. Hi, Riley.

How are you?

>> I'm doing great. How are you and Rachel?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Hey. Yeah, I own a uh service business

in the HVAC industry uh Thermostat Masters and we've been running that business now for a few years. And during the during running this business, we've started to develop a product. Um, I'm about 80,000 in on this product uh for

R&D and we are now at a point where

we've got the minimal viable product.

We're ready to essentially take this to investors is the direction that I want to go because we bootstrapped it this entire time. Uh, and really the advice that I'm looking for is how how do I how do I acquire funding um

for a product, especially I've just opened a new LLC for the product in order to protect my service company uh

from any debt or you know any kind of suing that may occur during this process. Um, so this new LLC doesn't

have any history. um how how do I

acquire funding for this and and and

also how do I structure the conversation with investors? I have some in mind, but then there's going to be locating the ones that I that don't know me as well.

Um how do I structure that conversation?

>> Uh it's very difficult because you don't have any track record. All you've got a a modified dream at this point. uh you

you've got a wish. And so if you were Shark Tank in this, they'd throw you off because you got no you got no history of of uh cash flow. You didn't come in and say, "I've sold 80,000 units and I want to take it to 8 million units and I need an investor." >> Um you came in and said, "I have a dream and I turned it into a prototype and I've made no money so far." So what does your what do you think it's going to cost you to produce this thing per unit?

So per unit we're looking at about $98

per unit and volume at 220

uh on what kind of volume that that is I'm not sure what kind of volume that is but that's the projected >> how did you project it? I mean did you get a bid from somebody to produce it?

>> Actually yeah I've got uh >> okay for how many years that have been working on it. >> Um I'm I don't have the answer to that question. I'm sorry. So, they gave you a bid to make one for 98 or a million for 98? We don't know.

>> No. Right. No. I If I had to say, it'

probably be 20,000 units if I had to say, but uh it wasn't going to be a gigantic number. No. Not nothing like a million. >> All right. Um Well, it it's very difficult to attract an investor to this. I mean, you got a you got a cost of goods sold at 50% is what you're telling me. You say that you think you can sell it for the two 200 $220 range.

Where is it going to sit in a a Home Depot or at? Is it going to be wholesaliled out to other HV other HVAC guys and they sell it to their customers or how you going to distribute it? Do you think?

>> Uh the idea that actually goes into business model and it's something that I I wouldn't be able to really discuss on on the business model of how that's going to go for legal reasons.

>> Well, yeah, you can. It's not. Nobody can steal the fact you're going to put it in Home Depot cuz they don't have home. They don't even know what we're talking about. But anyway, all right.

So, you're going to have a real hard time discuss getting an investor for this. A very hard time. And I would I would honestly I would counsel you against getting an investor, but you're you're dead set on it. I have a friend that says uh when you bring in venture capitalist, it's like picking up a hitchhiker and then they hijack your car.

>> Well, I'm not dead set on I'm not I'm not dead set on anything right now. I'm actually just calling for advice because into it and uh we >> what I would do, let me give you an example. I'll make up a thing that's not your thing, but I'll just make up a thing. Let's say that you wanted this thing to sit on the shelf in Home Depot, Lowe's, and Ace Hardware, and Tractor Supply. Okay? Um then I would go pocket

and put out um I'd go make a thousand of

them. You've already got 80 grand in it.

put another 100 grand in it of your money, make 80,000, make a,000 of them, and let's put them on some shelves, and let's see if we can get them to come off the shelves. If that's your model, if you're going to go on the internet and just create a web page and try to get an Instagram buy or uh or, you know, keywords on Google or whatever, then,

you know, you can post it there and try to sell it just online and and actually sell some units. That's going to give you two things to attract capital. One is a track record and the other is anyone that's going to put capital in this knows that your prototype is not ever going to make it to market. You put out the first thousand units, you're going to get customer feedback that makes you change the design 100% of the time.

>> Oh yeah. >> 100% of the time. We don't know what we don't know until we put it out in the wild. And that's business.

rules of business apply. It takes twice as long as you think it's going to. It costs twice as much as you think it's going to. and you're not the exception.

Those are the three rules of business.

And so, um, just plan on that. And I

would cash flow it and walk it out organically >> and see if you can't make the thing cash flow itself and keep the ownership. I would rather you sell a,000 and then 10,000 and then 20,000 and then a

100,000 and 10 years from now sell 800,000 and you own 100%. then you give

up 90% or 80% of your equity and they

bastardize your whole idea, which is what's going to happen. You're going to end up pissed when you're through dealing with these people because they're going to take your company over.

Uh that's what's going to they're going to take your little baby and they ain't going to rock it the way you want it rocked. Uh because they know more than you do and it's their money and that's what's going to happen. That's how these deals work, dude. And I'm not mad about it.

If you're a venture capitalist, I'm not mad at you. That's what you do. you you you know more than this guy and so you take it over and you go do it for him and he gets a little something and he would have gotten nothing if he had done it himself maybe. But I'm going to tell you to do what we did and that's we've cash flowed everything from the ground up >> and it is it's a slower process to do that.

Yep. But >> you're not going to be on the cover of Fast Company magazine.

>> and you but you're gonna be open >> but you're and you're going to own it. Pay cash for your go pay cash for your experiments because you can call them failures if you want, but they're experiments. >> This first prototype is an experiment.

>> Get it out there in the wild. Let people kick it around. Let them tell you your baby's ugly and then you you put some lipstick on that sucker. Put it back out there, right? And that that's what that's what we do, man. That's those of us that are entrepreneurs. We live in a state. I mean, entrepreneurism is like golf. It's a series of failures.

It's a series of experiments. you even professional golfers, it's a series of failures. They still don't ever hit exactly what they want to hit. >> Mhm. >> Never. Otherwise, every time they swing the club, it' be a hole in one, right? I mean, it's impossible. So, and business is exactly the same way. We don't ever have a book do what we think it's going to. It does about what we think it's going to because we've done a bunch of books, but still, it's a thing. So, it's

a cool discussion though, Riley. I'm really glad you're doing this. guys like you are the ones that that you could end up worth 10 or$20 million dollars off this one idea if you don't um let it break you and if you'll just

be be comfortable being the tortoise and not the hair. But I there's no one I

kept thinking when we first started man that someone was going to come along and discover Dave Ramsey and get me on all these radio stations. We're on 680 radio stations today. We're the second largest talk radio show in America. three radio hall of fames 35 years later. We got every one of those stations one at a time. No one has still discovered me.

There are people that still don't think I'm in radio. And so, um, but you know,

and it's me and Sean Hannity. We own the place, you know. I mean, it's like and so, uh, but it's and now we've got, you

know, I just got a hundred million streams on freaking Spotify.

>> We did the Ramsay show. What?

>> I get You know what? I was I I was here part of the time. That's right. And then I I picked up picked [laughter] up the little trophy thing to take a picture with it and broke it. >> You have I know. >> I broke the trophy thing from Spotify.

>> But what you've done trophy was cheap. I broke it. >> To your point though, what you've done and I feel like we've even >> We did it incrementally. >> Yes. And yeah, you you and the team, I mean, it's amazing. Um, and even knowing people that we've interacted with in life that started with an idea, kind of a small thing, they grew it and then, you know, we had friends over, they did a thing for 10 years and then sold it.

>> Yeah. >> And now they are sold it for a good amount of money. A lot of money.

>> Even really that could be your liquidity moment. >> Yeah. of like, hey, what if you have an idea, you have a thing, and you run it to ground for 10 years, and then it's done well, then you sell it to some cap, you know, venture capitalist, and you get to ride off into the sunset. Like, >> you're going to make a lot more that way. >> Yep. So, >> the sweat is not over, Riley, my friend.

More sweat, more calluses are in your future before more money. You have not gotten there yet. You got >> Before YouTube hates [music] me, you did. You built this. Well done, Dave.

>> No, no, it's okay. You did. [laughter] >> I I I got it to a certain level and you guys have taken it to the moon.

>> It's okay. I'm a good platform to jump off of. I'll take it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open Phones at88255225.

Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, co-host of the Smart Money Happy

Hour, and this weekend's sold out marriage and money or money and marriage event with Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, my daughter. She's my co-host today. Open Phones at825-55225.

Greg is in Phoenix, Arizona. Hey, Greg.

How are you? >> Hey, good afternoon.

>> Afternoon. What's up?

>> I am interested. I'm looking to see when it's okay to spend some of our wealth that we've accumulated on some fractional ownership airplanes.

>> Okay. Um >> well, we've created quite a a bit of wealth. Um, we are looking at taking advantage of the bonus depreciation for our business and, uh, we're really interested in some, you know, private travel. >> Mhm. Okay. And so, um, how how much

wealth have you accumulated?

>> Um, without the value of our business, our assets are 50 million and assets, 45

million in net worth. And if we had to add value to the business, it would be 150 million. >> Mhm. Okay. Way to go, dude.

Congratulations.

>> Thank you. Very well done. >> Lots of hard work. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh Yeah. And you're probably like me. You get a little angry when people say you're so lucky.

[laughter] You're >> right. A lot of luck.

>> Yeah. I got I got a few calluses and I've been wearing overalls a long time.

But yeah, the uh All right. So, congratulations. I'm so proud of you.

Well, obviously there's a couple things here. So, private air travel falls in the category of ultra luxury, obviously.

uh but you're in a category of ultra wealth. Uh you're in the top 1% of wealth holders in the United States without a doubt. And so you you qualify

financially to be able to do that, it makes sense. And the way I look at that kind of thing is um Sharon and I when

we're looking at something that feels emotionally uncomfortable because it's

>> so weird from the neighborhood we grew up in. >> Do what? That's exactly how we feel. >> Yeah. Like I bought the 700 horsepower Raptor R. Okay. Which is a pickup truck,

but it's a race car. Okay. Yes.

>> And uh it was ridiculously expensive. It

like costs more than I used to make a year >> kind of thing. It like freaked me out >> for about 30 seconds with those purchases. >> Yeah. For about 30 seconds. And this kind of falls in that category. So, we ask ourselves when we're making doing something like that is number one, is our generosity healthy? Are we healthy with our giving?

Uh, number two, uh, if we take the amount of money we're getting ready to blow on this toy

and burned it in the middle of the floor, would our life change at all? And

the answer in your situation is no, it would not.

>> Correct. >> Because it's not that much money. I mean, you're talking about what, couple million bucks.

>> It's $5 million over three years with a guaranteed buyback over three years as well. So, it's >> uh $3 million spent on and that's

without using any of the tax benefits.

>> Yeah. And and we don't do deals for tax benefits. You brought up tax benefits twice. That always makes me nervous. Don't use that to justify it. Do it do it in Do it because it makes sense and then take the tax benefits. And it makes sense for you in your world to never see

another TSA agent.

>> That is what my wife says. >> Yeah, I think it makes sense. I mean, because you you know, you're making serious bank and a million dollars a year for three years. It it ain't spit, man. >> It's like other It's like It's like other people buying a biscuit.

>> I do. I feel guilty the way I grew up with having nothing in a sense. And it's hard. again is you check yourself. Is is

this all about me and am I out of control trying to be like some

>> uh reality show person or something uh or some influencer or some kind of crap, right? Or am I am I doing this for other people say motivation or am I doing this for me and my family and my generosity

is >> probably far superior to this small purchase ratio wise. This is a small purchase. then you are not spiritually or ethically or morally out of line.

>> Okay? >> You're supposed to enjoy some of your

money. >> Okay? >> Okay. >> I I have a friend I have a friend that makes um about 60 million a year

>> and um he uh his net worth is uh

probably two billion and he just bought a $52 million Challenger 100%. No

fractional. >> Yeah. And that's a sweet aircraft, by the way. Oh, that is God.

>> Yeah. But anyway, yeah, but anyway, that that's that's the deal. So, you know, that I would go do it. I would go do it.

That's the answer to your question. And and enjoy it and don't feel guilty and expect other people to not understand

um there are no statues erected to critics except actually I said that and a guy sent me one. >> Oh, no. >> Did you know [laughter] that? Did you know the remember the movie critic [snorts] Roger Eert? >> Yeah, >> there's a statue Roger Eert and he's a critic. >> So there's actually one statue somewhere in the world erected to a critic. But critics don't they don't get a vote.

>> Okay. Because they haven't done what you've done. It's not their money. It's your money. Yeah. >> God didn't trust them with it. He trusted you with it. And it's a small percentage of your world.

>> And again, check yourself with, can I burn that much money in the floor? And is my generosity very healthy? And is my motivation good today? >> Is my motivation for other people or for me? Yep. That's right. That's right.

>> If no one knows you did this ever, is it

still a good purchase?

>> And that's what, you know, uh I, you know, I I probably shouldn't say that after I just said this, but I didn't buy the Raptor cuz I thought it was somebody else thought it was cool. I bought it cuz I thought it was cool. >> You thought it was cool. [laughter] I parked my uh Tesla right by it today.

Yeah. >> In the parking lot. >> Well, you >> plugged in and I bet I did. Did you feel [laughter] Did you feel a bit a bit of shame? >> No. I I bet it would beat your Raptor.

>> It probably would. Probably would.

>> So, >> I think I could beat your Tesla in a 100 foot run, though. I think on foot I can beat it for the first 100 feet.

>> No. >> Yeah, >> it >> Nothing Nothing comes out. Don't ever take that bet. Nothing comes out of the hole that fast. Not even a Tesla. >> Wait, what? >> I'm just telling you. I I'll talk to you about it later. Open phones at 88 [laughter] 8255225.

From 0 to 60. From zero to the first 100 feet, a person can outrun a car.

>> No. >> 100% of the time. >> That is not true.

>> Check it out. Go try it. Y'all go down the parking lot. We're gonna do it after all of us. Meet me down there and then we'll all go up on the hill and go to >> We'll see when Dave pulls a hammy.

[laughter] >> Oh man. >> You never know. The Tesla will outrun the Raptor though to your point. >> Yes.

Thank you. Thank you. No, but the that is a question we get I feel like more and more probably. >> But I do have the benefit of not I don't have the shame of driving a rolling battery.

>> Oh my gosh. [laughter] >> I do have that. >> We don't ever have to go to a gas station. We could keep going.

We could keep going. We could keep [laughter] going.

>> Uh but the question of spending because we do get that more and more and especially people on >> God because people are winning with money. That's a wonderful question. >> Yes. Yes. But the the emotions to your point >> it's hard to catch up >> don't catch up always mathematically to where people are when they start winning and >> it's you know we have 1100 employees we buy coffee our coffee bill when I see it is emotional I mean it's like I don't make

what in the world unbelievable I remember years you know you should [laughter] tell those dad jokes you know when I walked uphill both ways in the snow you know it's like golly man but it's coffee everything with scale is just whack But I will say money it can be it can be a dangerous thing too. So the fact that he's kind of pumping the brakes and asking I think is a very that's a healthy mindset. So I think that's really really wise. >> The ones that are in trouble are the ones that don't ask about it.

You're right.

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>> Terra is in Hartford, Connecticut. Hi, Tara. How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my question for you is, how do I continue with the baby steps if I don't have a home or any children?

>> Well, you obviously wouldn't need to save for kids college. So, baby step five does not apply.

>> Um, what's [clears throat] your housing situation?

Um right now I live at home and um so

that you know I basically my parents go away and um I take care of the house and

I stay at home and that's kind of where I'm at right now with that. I've been looking to purchase a house um but things are incredibly expensive. So until that happens uh I'm just saving

money and living at home. >> What do you make?

>> Sorry. What do you make? How much money do you make? >> I make about $60,000 a year.

>> Um, it's can be kind of flexible because I'm uh a 1099.

>> Okay. And when you say your parents go away, are they traveling and you like house you take care of the house while they're gone?

>> Yeah. >> And do you do that as a favor or do they pay you as like a house manager when you're when they're gone?

>> No, I do that >> just Okay. Part of it.

>> Um, but kind of in exchange. Okay.

Instead of paying rent, for instance, you're >> helping take care. Okay. Perfect. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, I would say you're on baby step 3B, Tara. At that point, I mean, I would be investing money into retirement, but I would be saving for a down payment for a house. That'd be my next financial goal. >> Yeah.

>> Yep. That's what I'm That's what I'm doing. So, for now, would you say that I'm just kind of like just ride on that and keep saving? >> Yeah. build up a nice huge down payment for a house because longterm, you said it, but also it's proper. It's good financial planning. Longterm, you want to be the owner of a home.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. And it doesn't have to be today.

It doesn't have to be tomorrow. You got a good situation right now. Um but if

you know, if you got a big old pile of cash, then the options start opening up.

And also long-term your income could go up. you could increase the quality of your uh you know your contacts and your 1099 business and you know d instead of making 60 be making 120 and you look up and you got 100,000 saved and uh and then something changes with the housing with mom and dad and you're ready to go buy and that's perfect.

>> Okay. And um would you say so when I'm investing I am maxing out my Roth IRA um

and the rest of my money I have in like high yield savings and in CDs. Um, would

you say that my money is best spent

anywhere else?

>> No, I would either be putting it in high yield savings for a down payment for a house or I would be investing beyond the

Roth IRA. And as a 1099, there's a couple of other things you can do. You can do a SE IRA or you can do a simple IRA. Either one. Uh, and they're very

easy to set up with your Smart Invest Pro. If you want to put more than just your Roth IRA in, you can do both of those as Roths, very easy to do. So, just if you want to do more investing and less towards the down payment, uh, just get in touch with one of the Smartves investor pros at ramseysolutions.com. One of the people we recommend for setting up a good mutual fund account, and they'll help you with your IRA investing. They can help you with high yield savings for that matter. But um yeah, you're just

chunking money for one of two things.

Either retirement or house down payment.

And you can just get as um at this position in the baby steps, you can go as heavy on one or the other as you want to. >> Yeah. I would I would probably try to hit that 15% and then anything above that put in your high yield for specifically for a down payment >> given that you have no rent. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> Yeah. And so I'm probably going to add another retirement program to your thing. Like I'm talking about a SE IRA or a simple IRA.

One of the two. Either one will work. Um and they're they're very easy.

>> Yeah, you're getting close. >> So, >> that's true. Great, Terra. Good job.

>> Get yourself to 15% and then go on towards the house. That's what I would do. >> Open phones at825-5225.

Allan is in Kansas City. Hi, Allan.

What's up?

Hey, thank you so much, Dave, for taking my call. I really appreciate it. >> Sure. How can we help? >> Here's here. Yeah, here's my question.

So, I was a pastor for many years. And

um we after I got married, we had some

health issues that were kind of longterm that insurance wasn't going to be covering. And eventually, I had to uh

leave the pastor as a occupation and uh

take up another job. and uh I've been

working in now IT and CRM. I'm the head

of those two departments uh here in Moy,

Missouri. And anyway, I am I'm working

for a previous church member and I'm

just really wondering should I stay or should I go? Um I don't know if I'm

getting the the best pay and vacation is

what I you know I'm thinking of my family. Am I really doing the best for them? uh because you know we don't have

a lifetime of savings. We've done the best that we can but I'm playing a lot of catchup just because of where we came from. >> Okay. >> So there's a lot of lot of background information to all of that. I'm more than happy to share but uh >> okay >> fire away with any questions you have.

>> Have you done any investigation on comp?

Um you know what your uh compensation is

worth? I mean, have you looked at what I can get a job for doing the same thing, you know, somewhere else?

>> I've done a little bit of looking on that and it seems that in the area that I'm in, if you only look at the IT work,

head of IT, that seems to be around 100.

What I'm having a hard time finding is what if you're doing it, but you're also involved in sales and you run the whole CRM and you're writing code for the CRM.

I I don't know if that boosts it a lot or or if it doesn't. It probably should boost it some.

>> Yeah. Because >> how much you getting paid now?

>> I'm right at 100 uh gross before

anything's taken out. >> Okay. And you're saying for just one part of your job, it's 100, but then you're what you're you're doing additional work, which you feel like you should be compensated for above what you're seeing.

>> Yeah. I'm wondering if I if I could be I've been pretty heavily involved in the sales department. and I made the the sales process and we didn't have a sales

uh >> how many people work at the company?

>> About 50. >> Okay. Do you have any idea what the top line gross revenue is?

>> Uh gross revenue is 9 million right now

>> with 50 people.

Wow.

>> They got a lot of payroll. Okay.

>> Yeah. the the staff uh the employees that we have has grown a lot over the past uh eight years uh that I've been here. Um the amount of money the company

makes has not grown so much, but a part of the direction is sort of planning for the future. There's been a lot of investment in product and the owners believe that the company's going to

explode over the next five years. Maybe not explode, but there'll be a good steady growth. >> Yeah. Okay. that I would hope I would hope that in other words, all this investment in payroll pays off. So, uh, >> right. Yeah. Yeah. Uh,

well, I'm not sure they're in a position to afford a lot more right now. Um, but

as they start making more, I would expect to see some pretty good kicks in my income, uh, based on the fact that you're basically doing one and a half jobs at a minimum.

>> And so, the other thing you can do is this. Okay, so here's the thing. You you're not a belligerent person. You're not a prideful person. Um but you're just asking an honest question of value.

And so an employer wants to know what

they can what what they can make as a result of the work you do. In other words, if they pay you 100, they need to be making more than 100 off the work you do. I suspect they are. And then the second thing they want to know is if they if you leave, what does it cost to replace you? In other words, what's the market value of that position? And so,

if I were you, you're a detailed person, I would do a detailed comp study with

LinkedIn and a few of the other sites and try to figure out as close as you

can what you think this is worth and have a series of facts, one page of facts, not a 26-page study, okay? And

sit down with your owner with one page and go, I'm asking myself an honest question. And I want to ask you an honest question. Um, this looks like, tell me what I messed up, but this looks like my position is worth 150 in the marketplace or 125 in the marketplace.

This is what this looks like. What do you think? >> And I want to be honest and I want to be humble >> and what's my grow and if not, what's my growth trajectory look like? How can I >> what can I do to become worth that since it seems that this position is worth that.

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>> The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a world-class

budgeting app. ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress on the Ramsey plan with your money. The average person finds thousands, literally thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes of starting up.

Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, Jeremy and Deborah are with us on

the DebtFree stage. What's up?

[screaming] >> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. [applause and cheering] >> Welcome. Welcome. >> How are you guys? >> Great. How are y'all? >> Where do y'all live? Charlotte, North Carolina, >> just over the hill. Welcome, man.

Welcome. Good to have y'all. And if you're on the debtree stage, it can only mean one thing. You're debtree. And how much have you paid off?

>> $85,614.

Very cool. And how long did this take?

>> 62 months. >> Good for you. Wonderful. And your range of income during that five years?

>> Uh 72 to 82,000.

>> Cool. What do y'all do for a living? >> Uh we own a a small business in Charlotte doing uh custom window treatments. >> Oh, very cool. Good for you. >> That's awesome. >> What kind of debt was this? $86,000.

>> It was OUR HOUSE, DAVE.

>> WE DID IT. Walk away. [laughter] >> Who has an $86,000 mortgage? >> Right. Yeah. We had what was left on our mortgage. Um we had a little bit of a backstory with our with ours. Um we actually got out of debt, consumer debt about 10 years ago, following your principles. Um, and then we went through a stage of infertility and um, and ended up getting pregnant with our first daughter. >> Yay. >> That we we unfortunately lost her at 24

weeks. Um, but we knew that we needed to stack money for her. She we knew she was going to have needs. >> Um, so we put the house, you know, we paid the payments, but we put some extra on the side. >> Yeah. >> And, uh, in 2020, we were able to bring

our first daughter home.

>> Oh my gosh. And then in 21, we were able to bring our son home. >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

Yes. >> Oh, it's much better than paying off a mortgage. >> Yes, it was. Um and over that time, we

we knew that we wanted to uh put them in really great school, uh take care of them like we were going to take care of their sister. And uh we kind of had that money sitting to the side and we had that left on our mortgage and we thought, you know what? Let's just do it. Let's be weird people.

>> Do [laughter] it. >> Just pay it off and we'll use the fact we don't have a mortgage to take care of the kiddos. Exactly. Yes. And it has blessed us. Uh they're able to go to a private Christian school and you know little things like that that we wouldn't have been able to do had we not done this. >> Wow. >> Huge blessing in our life. Thankfully.

>> What's the house worth? >> About 350,000. >> Way to go. Very good. >> Good job you guys. Thank you. >> You been stacking cash for this. Have you been investing as well? We have.

>> And how much is in your retirement nest egg? >> Probably about 200,000. >> All right. So over a half million dollar net worth already. >> Yep. >> Way to go y'all. And no stinking payments in the world.

>> Done. How's that feel?

>> Amazing. [laughter] It >> just happened. Shut up. Feels amazing to me. >> Sink in. It's got to sink in.

>> Made the last payment and had some major house problems. So, we had to deal with that and we're able to write a check for it. And so, it's not really fully sank in yet, but uh >> the next few months you'll Yeah, it's been a blessing to be able to do that and not go back into debt, you know, to be able to take care of the house needs. >> Yes, for sure.

Absolutely. >> You know, because a lot of people are call our show with that situation.

>> At least 100%. >> At least if not more, if not more.

>> Yeah. We spoke with you and John last year at the money marriage and had some um some advice for us for the situation where we were in and >> uh it helped us guide us to where we needed to do and >> one day we're just like no more. Write the check. Just do it. Build that count back up and boom. >> Love it. Yep. Yeah. Boom.

>> So great, you guys. Well done.

>> It's good to see you all again. I'm glad you're back. >> WE'RE SO EXCITED to be back. So fun.

>> Welcome back on the Ramsey campus. Yeah.

Good to have you. >> So now [snorts] with all this you've been through, you pay off the consumer debt, you stack cash, you fight the whole infertility battle, >> which is an emotional roller coaster.

>> It was. Yes. >> And uh the And then you turn around, look up, and go stack of cash, mortgage, gone. >> Yep. And so like three different major parts to this story almost timelinewise.

Um >> what's your advice to people and what's this you know when you when we always ask people you know what do you tell people about what you do to get out of debt? What was the key thing that enabled you to go through all three of those phases? >> Um I would say um yeah we you have to

have a team. You have to be a team. You have to be on the same page. um because it could have easily tore us apart.

>> You know, what we walked through infertility wise and then losing our daughter, that was very rough.

>> Um but it almost fueled a piece of me that it didn't fuel in him and and I was able to say, you know what, let's double down. Let's do this. Let's >> for our future for our future children and we're we're able to do that now. And the feeling of of knowing that we've changed our trajectory for our kids and their lives, >> you can't can't put money on that.

>> Yeah. You change your family tree. >> Exactly. We say it all the time, but it really does mean something.

Yes, >> it does. >> Where you guys came from, how you grew up, do you look and think like that was like where you're standing today, did that feel impossible? >> 1,000% for me.

>> I had I had great role models as a kid.

Um my dad was probably a Ramsay fan, but he didn't know it until until I met you.

And then, you know, then he he was all on board cuz he's like that's how he lived his life. And I I tried, you know, but then get married, make stupid decisions and, you know, pay lots of stupid tax on a lot of stuff, [laughter] >> you know, and then just, you know, being able to turn that corner and and know about the, you know, future that we want to have >> and the possibilities and, you know, are endless. >> What's the dumbest thing you ever did with money? >> Oh boy.

>> Much time we got left. I said, I just pick one. The best one >> probably vehicles. Yeah. Okay.

>> Buying vehicles that we had. No.

>> Yeah. I bought a 2016 fully loaded off the showroom floor Maxima with 20-in rims on it.

>> No money. >> And I had no money to my name.

>> Yeah. And that you bought that in 2016?

Yeah. Yeah. In 2016. Yeah. That wasn't now. You didn't buy that the other day. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. That's >> that's it. You know, since this whole journey, we've we've financed, you know, three pregnancies, >> you know, >> cash flow. Cash flow. Not financed.

>> Yeah. U [laughter] multiple vehicles in cash, you know. It's just um >> Yeah. whole reverse trend. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Never go back.

>> Well, I just want I wasn't doing that to make fun of you. I just want to remind people that you can do dumb things and not be dumb. Absolutely.

>> I I have done some incredibly stupid things and I'm not stupid, but I have done some stupid butt stuff in my life.

[laughter] And so I look back on I'm like you you're man, it's dumb.

>> But yeah, but then you go but I don't have to live that way. I can change. >> Right. the piece the piece that you get >> to have, you know, have foundation issues at your house that you, you know, oh, it's just an inconvenience like you say, >> in terms from an emergency fund, you know, it's just, >> you know, be able to >> pay for our kids school and, you know, it not be a question, you know.

>> So good. How old are the kids now?

>> Five and three. >> Five and three. Okay. So great.

Oh, >> were they kind of part of it? Was the 5-year-old like >> funny enough, she's she's she's learning. We have a school store at school, so she's learning about the privilege of earning and being able to buy what she wants. And we have the the kids >> um >> the financial piece.

>> Yes. Yeah, we have that for her. So, we're working through that with her. Um sometimes, you know, at five it goes in one ear.

>> 100%. Well, I was going to say cuz some kids, you know, people that are working the plan now that are listening, they have kids in the home and they're kind of, you know, part of that journey. Yours are obviously, yeah, they're younger, but but to think that they'll never know.

>> 100%. Well done you guys. Thank you so much. So good. So proud of y'all.

Cheerleaders who who was cheering you on. We got we got family friends here.

We met at the money marriage retreat last year, became friends and uh they they said they drive up to meet us >> whenever we did it.

>> And obviously we've had family um some here, some not here anymore. Yeah.

>> Wonderful.

>> Well, congratulations. We're very proud of you. Jeremy and Deborah, Charlotte, North Carolina. $86,000

paid off. House and everything. Yes,

they are official weirdos. They [laughter] did this in 62 months, making 72 to 82. Count it down. LET'S HEAR A DEBTREE SCREAM. 3 2 1. WE'RE DEBTREE.

YEAH.

YEAH, [applause]

>> you know, I uh you watch their

>> body language. You guys, if you're not watching this on video, [music] you watch their body language, Rachel, and the way they're interacting. The unity is is apparent just in their presence.

>> So strong >> that they're that they were they were knitted together by the >> by the tragedies and by the victories and by the victories.

>> And pretty cool. Y >> pretty cool stuff. Heat.

Heat.

>> [music]

>> Our scripture of the day, Matthew 10:16.

Look, I'm sending you out a sheep among wolves, so be as shrewd as snakes and harmless as doves. Ronald Reagan says, "The best view of the government is seen on a rear view mirror as one is driving away from it." [laughter]

Amen and amen. Oh, Elijah is in

Nashville. Hi, Elijah. How are you?

>> I'm doing great. Thanks to Thanks for calling you guys. >> Certainly. How can we help?

Well, um, my parents are in their mid-50s and don't really have a retirement plan in place, but they do have a car payment and an RV payment.

Um, so they're definitely upside down right now. So, for me, my parents can't,

it feels like my parents can't see what's so clear to me and my wife. What do you think we can share with them to help them understand? And ultimately, what do you think they should do in in their situation?

Well, you're in a very difficult position.

Uh we call it the powdered butt syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't really want your opinion on money or sex.

>> So, they don't really care what you think. Uh, and so trying to give them advice, even though what you're saying is probably perfectly correct,

>> uh, you're you're in the least leveraged position to actually have influence.

Does that make sense?

>> Totally. >> Yeah. So, what I do in those situations

is a couple of things. I never talk about them, talk to them about what they should do, although by God, it's tempting, you know? Instead, I talk about what I've been doing.

>> And so, um, you know, I have a friend who trades cars and borrows money every time he trades cars and we're still friends, but he's dumb. Okay? And so, he's in car debt all the time. It's just dumb. And he knows I think it's dumb.

>> But I've never said a thing to him about it. But I have told him some wonderful stories about the piece I have driving cash paid for cars.

Yeah. >> So, I I would just say, you know, my wife, you know, if you're having Thanksgiving dinner or you and your dad are having a cup of coffee or whatever it is y'all do together, you say, "Hey, you know, we're doing this thing and you know, we've gotten out of debt and we don't have any car debt and we don't have any this and we built an emergency fund and gosh, Dad, I got to tell you, I'm so peaceful." That's the thing.

>> I'm so peaceful. I'm so hopeful.

>> It's tricky because they're the ones who taught me how to budget and they put me through FPU and so we're already >> Yeah. I would just bring it back on them then, but don't tell them they have to do it. Don't shame them. It'll have no benefit.

>> Just say, "Thank you for teaching me all those FPU lessons. This budgeting stuff y'all made me do. It's changed everything. We're going to, my wife and I, because you guys taught us that stuff.

We do it all. We don't borrow money. We're on a budget and we're going to be really, really wealthy. We're tracking to be millionaires by this date.

Thank you so much." And, "Wow, thank you. Thank you. Thank you." And then eventually they're going to go, "Oh, well maybe I ought to do it." But I mean, you really can't. You can if they say something like, "I wish I could do it," or something, then you could just go, "I know you could.

You're the one taught me. I know you could do it." >> And I think some of the the fear that we have that my wife and I share is that, you know, we at this point it doesn't really seem like they have a plan A. So plan B is to live with their kids.

>> Yeah. >> So that's kind of like therefore we're not planning to do that. That's not a plan, >> right? >> They they can plan to do that. But that's not an issue today. They're in their 50s.

>> Okay. They're okay. They got a RV payment and a car payment. They could turn this around in three years. It's not a problem. Sell the RV, get rid of the car payment, and start saving for they could be millionaires by the time they retire very easily if they turn it around today. so that I'm not worried about them moving in with you, but I'm just trying to figure out how to influence them. So, thing one is I do that. Thing two is I bring in experts.

And I was going to say give them a total money makeover book or give them one of Rachel's books or something and go, "Hey, this book really influenced me. I thought you might enjoy it." >> But you got a problem with that. If you give a fat person a diet book, it's kind of insulting. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. I I think you might ought to read this. >> You know, it's probably it's kind of harsh, right? So, you got to be careful with that.

And they know, >> I mean, they I mean, >> but in this case, they've already got the stinking book. They just aren't doing it.

The third thing I do is I ask myself, who could have influence?

>> Is it the old FPU coordinator? Is it the pastor at the church? Who is it that's a soldout FPU person that they would listen to or they might not listen to that young whippers snapper? Okay. Um,

right. And so forth. The fourth thing I do is I pray and I ask God to send someone into their lives that's going to mess with them.

>> Mhm. >> God, make them uncomfortable

>> or that they have a change of heart. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And Elijah too, I think part of growing up, which is so funny saying this next to my dad, this you are not this at all.

This has nothing to do with you at all with >> major [laughter] disclaimer. >> No, but really I'm like it is and you know as you become an adult, it is weird when you look at your parents, you're like, "Oh, wow. I I feel like whether emotionally, spiritually, financially, business, like whatever the thing is when you start to surpass them in wisdom in an area and you with money with your with your parents in this way, right? I mean, honestly, it is a weird thing.

It's just like one of those parts of growing up um that you have to learn like you can't control them like and and I think we all have this thing in us and we have people in our lives that are doing something that you're like, "Oh yeah, I you know, I wish they were doing something else." And and we have this belief of if I could just have this one conversation or I could phrase it in this one right particular way, they're suddenly gonna get it and the light bulb's gonna come on. Yep. >> And I think I've just learned like you can't you just don't have that control over people.

And I think we believe we do to a degree and we really don't.

>> I mean seriously I mean yeah >> that's very weird. >> I mean it's bizarre a little bit what you're saying. It's one thing if they had no, you know, no idea, but they know it. So, I don't know. There is just >> Seems like a lot of these stories have to do with buying campers and RVs, don't they? >> Yeah, they do. [laughter] >> They do. You're right. It's a little bit of a midlife crisis sitting in the driveway out there. I'm just saying. Yeah. >> Yeah, exactly.

I do wonder, how do you know that they have no retirement? Have they Have they said that to you guys? Yeah, we've we've had some candid conversations and they're pretty transparent about um their finances and you know they'll they'll ask they'll ask for financial advice. You know, they'll say like, "Well, what should I do?" And I'll be like, "S, you know, Roth IRA sign." >> It's just it's just this pain point, I think, for them is the RV.

And it's it really does come down to just like a heart for, you know, we want to raise our grandkids in this RV and we want to go on these trips in our retirement. But the thing is, I think they just bought it 20 years too early. [laughter] >> Could be. could be.

>> I think you nailed that one buddy. I think you nailed it that they're asking and you know all of it and yeah and I think if you come at it with some curiosity of like hey you know how are you guys feeling about it and truth be told they may be fine >> back on them and say okay you know if you want to have wealth in the future >> and a quality retirement to be able to enjoy with the grandkids. What do you think you should do? >> Yeah.

know, car payments that they're paying, you know, like, but it's hard for them to connect those dots, I think. >> No, they're just they're in denial.

>> That's all it is. They just don't want to connect the dots. They know. They know.

>> I think that's they taught you this stuff. I mean, you turned out, dude. You got all the answers. You you could do this show.

I mean, you you called up asking questions, but you already knew the answers. >> And uh Yeah. So, I I'm going to try to get some people to influence them, some situations to influence them, talk about your successes, and if they ask a question, I'm going to answer it uh with a good, strong question that is basically a statement. >> Mhm.

Yeah. >> What do you think you ought to do about the RV?

feeling and thinking and making them say it out loud. That could be a light bulb moment. I don't know. [clears throat] >> Little little mirror actually. >> But I kind of appreciate that. Yeah. that they're so open with you guys.

>> I think they're going to be okay. I think they're going to be okay. I think they're probably closer than you think they are to waking up.

>> Um, and part of the part of what makes me think that is is the way that they raised you >> to where you know the answers, which means I know they know the answers and they'll come back around to common sense. It'll it'll start to haunt them eventually. >> And um, >> but the but the fear he's having of them living with them is like that's not >> put that down. Yeah. Yeah. No, just tell him stay in the RV. [laughter] >> Just keep the RV.

>> It's a really old RV at that point.

[laughter] >> Cousin Eddie's here.

That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 255. You Can’t Build Wealth While Carrying Other People's Problems | January 1, 2026


| Metadata | Value |
| :--- | :--- |
| **Video ID** | `69Dy3uh-pDo` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69Dy3uh-pDo) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:51:33 |

---

George Camel here with a quick PSA before the calls start coming in. If you want to leave the money stress in 2025, you need a plan that works. So take what you learn today and put it to work in every dollar. Download the app and start for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, [music] this is the Ramsey Show.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit on Ramsey Network, the Dr. John Deloney Show. He is my co-host today. Cody is in Nebraska. Hi, Cody. How are you?

>> You know, Dave, I am better than I deserve. How are you? I'm >> better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, guys, um I'm going to start off with a little bit of a doozy here, so I do apologize, but uh my wife and I have

just recently found out that her parents

are asking my wife's, uh sisters that

are under 18 for money for basic bills.

Um, we don't really know. You know, I've heard in the past you guys say like, "Don't say anything unless they come to you and ask for help or guidance." Um, we're just kind of stuck because, um, you know, my sister-in-laws are 10, 12, and then 17. Um, so I'm just kind of

we're kind of confused on what to do.

>> How much money do they have?

>> Well, so my so the younger

sister-in-laws, they were, you know, working over the summer. Um, so basically what happened was is, you

know, uh, my sister, my 10-year-old sister-in-law told us that, well, mom and dad kept saying that we don't have enough money for groceries this month and blah blah blah. So, I offered him my $400 that I got from dogsitting and they took it for groceries. And then um our

or my 17-year-old sister-in-law came over two weeks ago and said that they

had quote unquote borrowed $1,000 from

her for for bills for last month to cover. >> Is this true? Are they struggling that bad?

>> I I I would I would say so. Yes. It's

been talked about. You know, a couple months ago, my wife overheard that they are like $10,000 short a month. He my

father-in-law owns his own business, and it's been I know it's been struggling for quite a while. >> So, I I want to put things in order. I

have, you hear us say on the all the time, you can't help family unless they come ask you. >> But before that, I'm always going to protect kids.

>> Of course. And if you got a 10year-old that's coming to you saying, "Dad is saying, "I don't have enough money for groceries. I need your dog sitting money." Then I would I personally I would insert myself into that situation.

>> Okay. Okay. And that's what we were thinking because, you know, it's it's really hard for me to have respect for people like that that, you know, they are in a situation where they rely on everybody else to get them out of their problems. They blame everybody else except for themselves. Um, a lot of this is self-caused just based off their their career choices that they've had.

So, it's hard for me to have respect. It's hard for my wife to have respect as well. So, >> how long have you how long have you been worried?

>> Uh, it'll be two years in February.

Okay. Um, yeah, I'm going to take back what I said. I would have your wife call, not you, but >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And um I I think she Yeah, cuz

here's the thing. If the two of you go over there at 2 years into this and insert yourself in this situation, you are changing the trajectory of the next 40 years.

>> Of course. Yep.

>> It's not simply this situation. Um yes,

what you're describing is 100% disgusting. I'm not questioning that at all. Um, and if they were abusing the

children physically, we would just turn them over to children's services, >> right? Yeah, that's not happening. >> Be that simple. Um, because we're just not going to allow that to happen. They're just abusing them financially.

>> And um, so I I think um but I don't

think your wife your wife's what, 20some years old?

>> Yeah, she's uh she's 23.

>> Yeah. If she sits down with her mom and dad and says, "Y'all need to stop this. Sh to become responsible adults. My guess is there's about a 0% chance that that's going to have any impact >> 110%. >> And if you show up saying I don't respect you guys, they're going to tell you to get out of their house. That's not going to help either. >> Yeah, that's a 40 year that's a 40-year long discussion.

>> Um I'm trying to think, in other words, what will work is more what I'm thinking about. >> What what Dave, tell me if I'm wrong. So, my thought is when I when I say insert myself into that, it would be your wife calling mom and dad and saying, "Can we talk?" Um, and she's got

to be careful because the backlash could come down on a 10-year-old, right?

>> Yeah. >> Um, but we just heard, >> you know, and my Sorry, >> go ahead. And and my idea at first was

like, you know, my wife, I told her, I was like, "What if you like take your mom out to coffee and be like, you know, mom, we've heard some of this stuff from, you know, my sisters. Like, how bad is it? >> Is it is it really is that really happening? Are y'all really that bad?" >> Yeah.

And is is there is there ways we can help or is there ways we can support you? Or is there education?

>> Exactly. Exactly. And you know, that's our fear because, you know, they're setting the kids up for just a lifelong >> Yeah. But but dude, you're 25. You're 24. I would stay out of that for right now. >> Yeah. That's not That's not >> Okay. >> That's actually not true either. It's a it's a bad it's a bad on-ramp to life,

but it's not an on-ramp that can't be corrected. A lot of us have bad on-ramps. >> Yeah. >> Um and then we get the opportunity to meet Jesus and change our life. Okay.

So, >> uh and those kids have got the same thing. They're not being physically abused. So, >> yeah. So, let me refer when I say insert myself, I don't mean you flex and put on a sleeveless shirt and go bang on the door. I I think I think your wife

>> taking mom out for coffee, taking dad out, and saying, "Hey, we just happened to hear this.

>> H I'm worried about y'all. How how bad?" >> I'm worried about my sisters. >> Yeah. >> How bad is it? >> Definitely. >> And then y'all two have a hard conversation about could you help, will you help, and all that cuz the next question is going to be, well, can we have $500?

>> Um, and y'all already have that predetermined discussion before she heads into that. >> No, go ahead. I'll give you the answer to that. No, you're right. because they're saying they're $10,000 short a month. >> So, I'm not throwing good money after bad. >> So, I we only give Ramsay's only give

into situations where we create a sustainable story.

>> We don't throw money at something $5 at

something that's a $100 problem. That's not you're not creating a sustainable story. Then you've got to fix the problem. You got to get down under it.

And so that's going to involve maybe what I would pay is for them to get with a Ramsey coach. And the Ramsey coach boxes her ears and says, "You have to sell the three cars. You guys, you cannot afford these stupid cars. You can't afford to live in that house.

Oh, maybe you need to get a job because your life your your business is not a business. It loses money. It's called a hobby. And so, no, we're going to have, you know, these types of things are going on under the scene because if they're $10,000 short, the $1,000 from the 17-year-old or the $400 from the 10-year-old doesn't fix it, nor does $500 from you fix it.

But do say, "I'll I'll I'll cheer you on. I'll help you do a budget. I'll connect you with some people and pay for it for you to get some coaching to get yourself out of this. You've struggled with this your whole life.

I've watched you. I'm your daughter. And, you know, I'd love for you to be free from these demons." >> And you and I have talked about this before on the air, but parents don't like hearing money advice. So, if she sits down and says, "Y'all need to start." That's not going to go well.

But that idea of sitting down and saying, "Hey, I'm worried about you. How bad is it?

>> That's a different avenue. >> Yeah, we are on a budget and it's giving us great peace. We have sold some stuff to be able to get in get our our income in line with our outgo and it's given us great peace. And if I could ever help you get with our coach, we'll show you how to do that. That kind of thing.

>> [music]

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Dr. John Deloney [music] Ramsey personality is my co-host and is with us in New Orleans. Hi Anne, how are you?

>> Hello, I'm fine. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Our honor. How can we help?

>> Okay, my question is my husband and I, my ex-husband and I were a co-signer on my son's condo back in 2004.

>> [clears throat] >> And since that time he is un my son is

unable to pay his mortgage because he's

unemployed. He lost his job and >> 2004.

>> No, no, no. We he purchased the condo in 2004. >> This past April he lost his job

>> and s and he's been unable to pay the mortgage. >> How many times did you pay it since 2004?

>> Oh, it's happened before. about 10 years ago, he ran into trouble paying his uh

mortgage and he was able to do a forbearance and of course I assisted

financially at that time.

>> Mhm. >> And you keep using the word unable. Is he unable or is he unwilling?

>> Yeah. Why do you not have a job? >> One of my best friends in the world is a parapolgic. He is unable.

>> No. No. He's physically capable.

>> Okay. >> He has not and he has not found a job since April. He says he's looking >> one of the hottest you can't bond a job.

>> One of the hottest hiring markets in human history. He's chosen not to work.

>> I guess so. >> Okay. Let's use I just want to be I just want to call a spade a spade because it helps us make decisions, right?

>> Yeah. [clears throat] Now, >> yes, understand. >> You're still on the mortgage.

>> Yes. We my ex-husband and I are co-signers, so we're responsible for paying the note if he does not.

>> Mhm. And he's not been paying it.

>> Yes. So, I have been paying it since April. My ex-husband made about three of

the mortgage payments. So, now I want to

know what would be the best avenue for

me to convince my son to sell it. Let it

go for foreclosure.

And I told him, or else you get a job and you pick up the payment. But I don't want it to go to foreclosure because I don't want it to affect my credit. I

have an my credit rating is 820.

>> Every time it's paid late, it affects your credit.

>> Yes, I understand.

So, I just don't know if there's any options for me. >> Is he on the note at all? >> Co-signer. >> Is he on the note? >> He's my my son is the owner of it.

>> Yeah, he's on the note. She's a cosigner. Yeah.

>> Yeah. You can't force him to sell it.

You can just talk him into selling it. Will he sell it if you tell him to?

>> No, he's dragging his feet about that.

He really doesn't. >> Well, he's dragging his feet because he knows you're going to pay for 20 years.

You bailed him out.

>> Yes, I understand that. >> And you've probably given him some stern talking to over the last 20 years and then >> Yes, I have. >> You still paid it. So, >> yeah, he's dragging his feet because you taught him how to. I think he had to sit down and say, "I'm not paying this rent." I Dave, I'll leave it to you. I mean, it's going to it's going to ruin your your >> Yeah, you're you're going to get foreclosed on if he gets foreclosed.

>> Yeah, >> that's how this works.

>> So, >> can you afford to buy him out?

>> I could, but I I I just don't know what my best options are because if I buy if I if he would sell me the condo, then it's mine, right, for me to do what I want with it.

>> Exactly.

>> And then you can then you just sell it.

then he you sell it and >> right >> resell it and get your money back out and at least that way you didn't lose anything. Um but yeah, you can just say

all right let's get it appraised. I'm going to buy it from you and then you put it on the market and sell it. That's what's best for you.

That is unbelievably aggravating

and it's not necessarily what's best for him. What's best for him is to experience some pain.

Um, but but he's not going to in this scenario unless you do.

>> That's the problem with co-signing. You get to experience the pain with him.

>> And he's going to play chicken with you and you've got a lot more to lose than he does financially, right?

>> Yes, I do. >> Yeah. And what's the what's the condo worth?

>> Maybe about 40,000 >> worth >> 45. No, I would Well, in the He would be

he would be lucky if he could get 60 for it. Oh my god. What do you owe on it?

>> 30. >> Okay. >> And he's got 11 more years.

>> Okay. Go go go go tell him that um you

know he can no longer screw up your life

with his laziness. He needs to sell you this condo even if you buy it for whatever. H have a real estate agent give you an appraisal. Buy it for that amount. Put it back on the market and resell it. And he needs to move.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. that protects you. I'm for some reason I thought this was a $600,000 condo. >> It's a $60,000 and yeah, just you can you're you're you may lose a couple thousand bucks here or there by moving all this giration around, but you need to get out of this trap you put yourself in. And the trap is co-signing.

>> You can't get out of the trap. You're either going to be an enabler or you're not going to pay. And then he's going to get foreclosed on, which means you're going to have a foreclosure on you. And then they're going to come around looking for all of you wanting some money out of y'all because the condo won't bring enough at repo to even cover the old mortgage on it. But it's a piece of crap condo to start with.

>> Mhm. And >> I'm the one >> and >> I'm sorry. >> Will you forgive yourself for the divorce?

>> Finally. >> Yeah. Yes.

>> You're still trying to make that right with him? Stop. It's 20 years.

>> Yes. Yeah, >> you're going to lose you're you're going to lose some money, but you're also going to lose your relationship with your son. It's not worth it.

>> Yeah. I I I would I would buy it from him, have him move out, >> and turn around, put it right back on the market, and sell it. And if you lose a little bit that way, that gets you out of this trap. And then you have a standalone relationship with your son that's mother's son that is no longer co-signer because co-signer is putting a strain on everything.

It's making you do things you're not you don't feel good about. >> And it makes you resent your son. Every time that phone rings, you you feel your chest tighten up because what's he going to ask? Like it's it's altered your relationship.

>> What's he going to ask for now?

This time cuz you're aggravated with him like we are for being lazy, not working since April. My god. How much does it take to pay the condo note on 30,000 bucks? [laughter] I mean, you can you can like do Uber one day a month and pull this off.

This is about the laziest human I've run into. Um, that's pretty rough. >> I mean, really. >> Yeah.

>> Think about it. It's just I mean, it's not like it's a lot of money. I don't even know how the boy's eating. Oh, yeah.

I do. And >> Yeah. Ann's take making sure he's got groceries. >> Yeah.

So, Ann, you got to stop it. It's time. You put him on the put him out and let him figure out how to do life and just love him from a distance. Uh, that doesn't include your checkbook for the rest of his life.

And that's the biggest favor you can do him and yourself.

moms and dads out there, never

ever cosign.

>> It's not an act of love. It's not

>> it's it's the ultimate enabling and it locks you into enabling because out of

self-preservation, you have to cover the stupidity of the other party.

What about this Dave? I'm trying to think of how this situation for her could go wrong. Is there a a moment when, and again, I know I'm speaking in ratios here, but $50,000 against what Ann has is not a lot of money. Can she

buy this thing and hand it over to him and walk indust?

Is that too much enabling?

>> I wouldn't do that. No. >> Yeah. >> No, I think I think it's >> I think he's not going to move is what I He's not going to sell it >> to his mom. >> Yeah.

>> Well, then I would just take the pain of being foreclosed on. >> You would? >> I just stop. >> Okay. You're either going to sell it to me or uh the days of me giving you money

are done. >> They're over that. And that's what I'm getting at. >> Either you're either either you're going to sell this to me or you're going to have to figure it out. >> Okay. >> I'm done. >> Okay. >> Because that's this is so bad for him.

>> Yeah. >> She stunted his emotional growth.

>> I mean, he's six years freaking old.

>> Yeah. >> He can't can't get a job since April to pay condo notes on 30,000 bucks. This is

lame. >> Yeah. >> This is really a lame boy. Especially when we talk to elementary school teachers trapped in a New York apartment during COVID who pay off six figures because they drive and scratch and claw and flip and do whatever they got to do.

>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Tough, man. >> Could sell enough clothing out of his closet assignment sale.

>> Could plasma your way to that one. >> It's just it's just not any money. So, um Yeah, honey. You got to you got to get him free of you and you got to get free of him in order to have a decent relationship with him and in order for him to ever be a real man >> and it's going to cost you that precious 820 that you really you're really proud of. It's going to cost you gives a crap about that. >> Let that stupid thing go. >> Yeah. Oh my gosh.

>> That condo's never been late. She paid it on time every time. >> Every time. >> It's never been late. It wouldn't be 8:20. This is the Ramsy show.

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>> [music] >> Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Judy is in Los Angeles. Hi Judy. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. Um I am a longtime listener and uh

first time caller. >> Okay. I'm on baby step six >> and I listen to your show all the time and you recommend never to cosign for someone. Correct. But I h I'm in a situation when I do want to cosign for somebody under a certain circumstance.

>> So my my h my husband's cousin, first

cousin, she's been on section 8 anyway.

She lost that. Now she's in her 60s. She

needs to get an apartment. there's a special needs trust that her parents

have set up for her and in order for her

to get into an apartment um she needs to have someone co-sign where her brother who is the trustee refused to do so and I was wondering

>> warning warning why would her brother >> who loves her more than you do >> he's her brother for God's sakes not want to cosign >> he he's he doesn't love her >> oh He actually doesn't mind if she goes home. Yes. No, that's true.

>> And it's totally true. It's from a very dysfunctional family. He's not willing.

His wife is telling me he's willing to let her go homeless if they have to.

>> There's more to this story than you are telling or believing.

>> Well, she's u she has a problem. She has personality disorder.

>> That's why that's right. Okay. She's she's in her 60s. She's never worked in her life. She always section 8.

>> She lost that. >> Who who is the who is the custodian of this of the special needs trust?

>> Her brother >> her brother. >> So would will you have access to the funds for this apartment or does she have access to the funds?

>> Right. So what I'm going to ask if it's okay if that works if you agree that's the you know right thing for me to do. I can try to ask a brother for 14 months of pay in an account to me and then I

will transfer that to her monthly.

>> Mhm. >> Is that okay? If funding is available for a whole year, is it safe for me to cosign? >> I wouldn't. What if she trashes the place?

>> She Well, she won't trash the place, but she might, you know, um No, she's not

like that, but she will she might have trouble with neighbors. That's the only That's the kind of problem she has. or gets kicked out or there's four has four people over or >> gets sweet talked >> people over, she'll just like she loves cats. She'll probably, you know, >> take care of >> break all the rules.

>> Rules don't apply to her. >> That type of thing. >> Rules don't apply to her. >> Yeah. And Judy, we're going to tell you no. If if this money's available, then she can get the apartment under her name. You can write the checks every month for her. If she can't do that, that's fine.

>> But you don't need a coach. But I feel >> But how do I prove to the apartment people that there's money available?

>> Well, you would have to have the money available. >> Yeah. Print off a statement. Yeah. And >> can I show Do I show them? What What do I do? Because we're in California.

There's a lot of these places and I don't live at the same town as she does.

So, it's not easy for me to like take her somewhere and talk to someone, you know? >> Well, you get on the phone with the apartment manager and you say, "This is what's going on. She has a special needs trust. brother's going to send you documentation. He's going to end the documentation, send it to the property manager and say, "Uh, we'll set aside the first 14 months and go ahead and just prepay the rent for 14 months." That's fine, too. >> Oh, just prepay. >> Yeah, but you don't cosign.

>> And they're going to try to get you to cosign >> because you have a blind spot here, kiddo.

this this lady is uh she's gotten a hold of your heart and she's sweet and she does need someone to help her. But we need to define help very carefully. Help

involves her behaving. And you're not

willing to make that requirement, nor can you make that guarantee based on her 60 years of misbehavior.

>> Right? >> You're going to get screwed if you do this. Please don't do it.

>> Okay? >> It's going to go up in flames.

Okay. So, I told the apartment that I have money, but I need to show some proof, right, to the trust.

>> Yeah. The the the brother's going to have to send documentation. >> Yeah. And by the way, you don't have this money, Judy. You still have to go through a guy that you say doesn't even love her, doesn't care about her, doesn't care if she ends up on the street, >> right? So, all of this is like two hypotheticals removed from reality.

>> And let me help you with this, okay?

It's not that he doesn't love her. It's from the 16 times he tried to help her and it burned him and he's done being burned. So, he's putting up a boundary.

That's different than not loving. And you got you're calling it not love and a dysfunctional family. I'm calling her a dysfunctional person who needs love and help but has burned everything around her to the ground to the point her own brother won't help her. You can't put that on him.

>> I'm not going to let you do it. >> Yeah. I don't even know him. And I'm not going to let He's not the jerk in this story.

Okay. And there's not a jerk in this story. There's a sad lady with mental illness. And you're going to get burned to the ground when her mental illness activates if you're signed on the documents.

>> Yeah. Don't sign. Just I I don't know an apartment complex that won't take your check if if you got it. So if they won't take your money, so she can get her own place.

>> Hey, listen. I'm a landlord. If I know what's going on here, I'm not putting her in there. >> That's fair.

That's fair. Because prepaying the rent ain't half my problem. It's the 93 cats that end up in my building, >> right? Or all the neighbors or whatever.

>> Or she burns the neighbor's cat alive in the front yard. I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know. I don't know what's going on with her.

No, I don't want her as a tenant under any circumstances. Co-signer, prepaid, double paid. No. Thank you.

>> Life's too short to sign up for drama as a landlord. >> So, that's what you're going to that's what you're going to face, hun, more than anything else. So, you're Please, honey, don't don't confuse this. and you you're trying to do a nice good noble thing in a really um naive and unwise

way. That was that was kind.

>> Yeah, that that's the best way to say it. And I I think this is a bigger conversation, Dave. When you want to help somebody and you get all these scenarios in your mind and then you spend all these nights and weeks worrying about it, all of this phone call could have been already headed off.

You could have already sat down with your brother. You could have already called an apartment complex and taken all these worrying variables off the table so that you know, okay, here's the final step here. And you probably would have found out a long time ago, you either don't need to do be a cosigner or

nobody's going to let her to live there. You're going to have to come up with another option, right? But there's always like, well, then I might do this and then after that I'm going to do you don't even know if all this is is is going to happen and you're so spun up about it. Just go find out. Find out.

[clears throat] >> I cosigned for stuff when I was young and foolish and I ended up paying it.

One poor guy cosigned for me. I went bankrupt. He ended up paying it. I had to go back and pay him later. His wife still don't like me. Yeah. 35 years later. So, it's okay. It's valid. I mean, I She got screwed. They didn't [clears throat] ultimately get, but I mean, she thought she did. And so, I get it. I completely get it. Proverbs 17:18

says in the scripture, "One lacking in sense cosigns for another." >> When I co-signed, Judy, I was lacking in

sense.

If you cosign this, the Bible says you're lacking in sense. I didn't say it. Get mad at God. Don't do it. That

wasn't That was That was pretty good.

>> I mean, you you kind of brought the Bible out. So, there you go. >> There we go. Brought the Bible out. Yeah, that that's the final right there. >> That's the final one. >> That's the one. Open phones at8255225.

Kim is in New York. Hi, Kim. How are you? >> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I wanted to know how to save uh money for a mortgage down payment while you're paying rent. >> Very hard.

It is. >> Yeah. Um, >> are you How much debt have you got?

>> Um, I can go through the numbers and I can tell you. >> No, just how much debt have you got? Just give me the total.

>> Uh, I want to say about 40,000.

>> How much of that your car?

>> Well, to me and my husband together, it's about uh he owes I owe 16 and he owes about 20.

>> Okay. How much is the car?

My car total with the insurance just

insurance or just the car? >> No, the debt on the car. How much debt is on the car?

>> About 16. >> Okay. All right. Of your 40 or of your Yeah. of your 40. So, half of it's your car. Okay. >> So, here's the simple answer, but it's not a simple answer.

>> Is when you don't have any debt payments, you'll have more room in your budget. >> So, before you start worrying about saving for a down payment on a house, let's clear the debt off. That may mean selling a car. It may mean taking an extra job. It will mean not eating out.

It will mean not going on vacation so that I can get out of debt. Cuz if you didn't have any payments, oh, you'd have

money to save for your down payment.

That's where it comes from. Your most powerful wealthb buildinging tool is your income. Don't give it to somebody else and then you'll have it to save for a down payment. Simple, but hard. This is

the Ramsey [music] Show.

>> [music]

[music]

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Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888255225.

Patrick's in Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick.

How are you?

>> I'm doing good, Dave. >> Good. How can I help? >> Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on a mobile application and I'm wanting to raise funds to get my

MVP off the ground, right? Um, and I've

I've had a a friend of mine and and

offer to give me a loan to do this, but I've been listening since to you since I was 12 years old. Um, lost everything last year in a divorce, literally everything. Um, and I'm wanting to go

back up, but I don't want to give up my entire my entire percentage of my

company in getting with a traditional investor and I really don't have access to traditional investors. So, I'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowdfund with a patent pending also. So, I'm just kind of curious what you might have on

that. >> Okay. Um, so remind me again the what

the patent is on.

>> Okay. It's on a mobile application.

>> A mobile application.

>> Like a phone application. >> A phone app. >> Like a an app for your phone.

>> And why do you have to have a patent for a phone app?

Well, it's just it's just something new that is uh well, I mean, it's a

>> I mean, you're going to put it in the Apple Store and you're going to put it in the Google Play Store >> and people are going to download it onto their phone, right?

>> Right. But it's a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before. I mean, I literally >> You don't need a patent for that. Is it a copyright? You don't need a patent for that. >> No. No. He told me I couldn't copyright, but basically it would make it to where that somebody else couldn't redo that app. They couldn't make a they couldn't make another um

you know uh because there there you can I've patent I've started the process to patent a process in the app just like >> okay so stop okay so how much are you

spending to get the patent pending

>> so that's already I've already paid that >> okay so you're done okay so you've got so why why do you need money to launch something in the Apple store it doesn't cost anything Well, well, the in order

to get the in order to get the um the

actual application built, the MVP, the minimum viable product, and and to build that. >> Oh, you've not built the app yet.

>> No, I just patent pending the idea or

the technology.

>> No, the technology is not done within.

>> It's not. >> Okay. Are you not a programmer? You're not an engineer. >> I'm not. No. No, I I' I've been a mom

since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. Um I bought and sold several different businesses. I mean, I've I've But I lost everything last year and I'm just starting over.

>> Okay. So, all you need is the engineering done,

>> right? >> You need you need a software engineer, right? >> Mhm. >> So, what's it going to cost to to to turn this idea into an app?

Uh the the lowest quote I've got is around 24 thou 24 to to $35,000.

>> Okay.

You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I've put them up, taken them down.

I've uh we've got a little thing called the Every Dollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in, obviously, but we've also got, you know, tens of millions of people in it and all that. Um, but even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So, um, I'm just trying to think, uh, how we would do it because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside investors. You know that. You said you've been listening. >> I don't I don't I don't want to give up.

I don't want >> I wouldn't do it. I, you know, I would, you know, I mean, he even told me he would give it to me at 5%, but I don't want to take a loan and take money from your No. What partner? No. You You've been listening to us. You knew I was going to tell you not to do any of this. What's what's your what's your panic?

Like what's the you feel panicked? Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent, can't you exhale and go earn 30,000 bucks?

>> Well, the the thing is is yes, I I have probably 8 to nine months left of the of the status. See, my lawyer, he wants to do he wants to do a non-provisional, which is potentially give me 20 years protected, right? Um my uncle was an engineer, not in mobile stuff, but like he that's how he made his money. He had invented like one of the largest crash compactors in the United States.

And I've run by the seat of my pants in this. I >> What do you What do you Yeah, I know. I can tell.

Yeah, I'm I'm a truck driver, so I've always I go and got my CDL and I've I've bought and sold three different semi-truckss, but I lost I lost almost $400,000 income last year during the divorce, and I was paying $3,000 a month in child support, and it just ate me alive. Um, and I I did have $15,000 in

debt in that, but I >> Okay, let me stop you. All right, here here's there's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of

desperation. like you you sound so desperate. >> You called it an application when you're talking to us >> and it's not it's >> like an app. >> It's a phone app.

For God's sakes, this is not rocket search >> and so and you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate. And all of those things tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid cuz every time I get that sound in my voice like a beagle chasing a rabbit, that's about the time I'm about to do something dumb. >> And I I can hear it on you. I'm just being honest with you.

All right. So, what I would tell you to do, what I would tell you to do is this.

>> Take a breath.

Okay? That's what I'm going to tell you to do. And then, if you want to proceed

with this, the only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer

and tell them you will pay them double

their rate out of the proceeds.

And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay, that, you know, it's $24,000

worth of stuff, I'm gonna pay you $48,000, the first $48,000 that we make on this, I'm going to pay you out and I'm going to pay you double and then they're done.

And the problem is, as soon as you get the thing up, and here here's what I'll teach you about apps. They're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it. >> [sighs] >> 100% of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated.

The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. The great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better. So you're c you're not frozen. When I print a book, it's either good or bad.

I'm stuck with it. It's on the shelf for the next 40 years. It's a printed book. when I put put something out in the digital world, I can change it tomorrow and I can change it the next day and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along and I will.

And so every the Every Dollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name Every Dollar originally. It has iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years.

software engineering costs have just begun, my friend. If this is actually going to work and be successful, your

patent stuff is probably early and

tremendous overkill.

Um, you know, the number of times that people steal something on in an Apple store is just not that big. It doesn't happen much except the Chinese steal and stuff, right? And and duplicating it.

But I mean, I'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in, scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented. Um, so you

know, it's, you know, I don't I'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are are patented, just to give you an idea. And of course, here's the other thing. Soon as you patent it, you're going to iterate it and change it. So then you got to update the dad gum P. Yeah, this is not I don't know. I I So yeah, I do know I would

slow down, breathe. If you want to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them two 2.0, know what they're worth, but they only get paid out of the proceeds. And if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing. If it never works, they put in their money for nothing.

If they want to join the venture for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money like John said and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared.

Upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey show.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> The calendar might have flipped, but the way to win with money hasn't changed.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Dr. John Deloney, number one person, number one bestselling author personality. You're the number one person. That's it. >> I'll take it. >> Yeah, you're all of that. and uh number one show on the Ramsey networks. Not really, but a big show on the Ramsey networks. He's number one everywhere in his mind. So check it all out. He's here to help you me this hour since my mouth is apparently not working. Open phones at8255225.

Thomas is in South Dakota. Help us Thomas. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Hey John. What's going on? I'm calling today because uh I'm 18 years active duty uh military.

>> Thank you. >> Um unfortunately Thank you. Uh unfortunately a couple years ago life happened um and I landed up getting divorced. Um with that before we got

divorced my ex-wife and I we were completely debtree and uh I was able to contribute 60% of my income towards investments. >> Holy. >> Um 40% was going to my TSP and another 20% was going to my kids college funds.

>> Wow.

>> Um but now that I'm divorced, uh I've been divorced now for two years. Um, I have found myself accumulating a little bit of debt. I'm back at $57,000 worth of debt. >> What in the world? What did you buy in two years?

>> Uh, so I bought a vehicle uh your baby steps. >> What kind of truck is it? >> Um, it's a Ford Raptor. [laughter]

>> Well, I think we found the problem, Thomas.

>> It's definitely part of it. Uh, >> no. It's the whole thing. >> It's all of it. Taylor Swift.

>> Get your divorce raptor truck. We know what it is, right? >> It's called I'm the problem. It's me.

>> So, my uh I'm calling because I can pay this debt off pretty quickly. What do you make? About $78,000 a year.

>> You make 78 a year.

>> And you owe what? On the Raptor?

>> I owe 57.

>> Yeah. Uh, well, I owe 37 on the Raptor and 18,000 in uh credit card debt that I

used to purchase furniture and stuff for the house that I got divorced.

>> Okay. All right.

>> Um, I still contribute the 60% of my income towards my TSP.

>> Um, you can't afford to do that if you're broke.

>> Um, so I was thinking, so my my philosophy here and what I was looking for is some guidance. Uh, I was thinking about cutting off my TSP. Um,

however, in the divorce, uh, my ex-wife

decided to go ahead, hey, your whole military pension is yours. I just want half the tsp. Um, I've still been

contributing because in my head, I was like, I'd rather make a little bit more money on the back end versus stop contributing altogether and out of spite just not contribute because I don't want her to get Wait, >> when does she get half? Now.

>> Uh, uh, 67.

What? Oh, no. Wait a minute. That's That's not possible.

>> Is this divorce isn't final, is it?

>> Um, it is. Yes, sir. So, when we went to court, there was I had several different uh options that I could do. Um, >> and you agreed to give her half of your TSP at age 67.

>> Yes. >> Not h not what half of it becomes by then, but whatever's in there at H. That's not right. Something's wrong.

>> That's based off of what the lawyers were saying and stuff. They said that was the better of the deal.

>> Apparently, these lawyers didn't take math class.

That's a horrible deal. Um, all right.

So, you need to get clarification because I don't think you understand what really happened or you got the worst deal in the history of divorces.

>> I've never heard of this deal. This is what you got. It is normal for you to transfer half of your TSP to her. Now,

that is a normal process in a divorce.

And she can roll that into an IRA and have no taxes.

It is very strange for her to get anything at age 67.

Like, I've never heard of this in 35 years of doing what I do. That's strange. What they wanted to do was she would get half of my military pension on top of half of the TSP.

>> Yeah, that would be normal.

>> But half the TSP today, not at 67.

>> Well, now what the deal that they had worked out was she doesn't get any of the military pension. She only gets the

PSP.

>> Okay. Now or at 67?

>> At 67 when it matures.

>> Okay. Then it should be half. What? half

like you're half of your TS. How much is in your TSP today?

>> Uh 166.

>> Okay. So half would be 80 84 thou

83,000. Okay. Right.

>> Yes. >> Today. So whatever 83,000 grows to

at age 67, she should get. But she

shouldn't get half of everything you put in between now and then because otherwise you would put in nothing between now and then.

Right. So, that was going to be my next question is if I just stop contributing alto together. >> You have to contribute. Listen, if you did the worst deal in divorce history and she gets half of your TSP regardless of whether you put money in or not, that's the worst deal I've ever heard of in my life. I've never even heard of you get half at 67.

That's just very weird, dude. Like, like

these lawyers are completely freaking incompetent. Weird. Okay. But if you did

do that, you need to go back and clarify. Is it what half of it today

becomes what 83,000 becomes at 67 or is it just

half of whatever's in there? Cuz if it's

half of whatever's in there, you don't put another dime in it. You're done with that.

You got to go put money in a Roth IRA and you got to put money in other stuff.

But you the TSP is off limits to you because she's going to take half of everything you put in there for the next you know how many how old are you?

>> Uh I'm 36. >> Yeah. Good God. For 30 years you're going to contribute to her. No thank you. You did the worst deal ever.

So no, we're not doing that. That's dumb. That's dumber than a rock, man.

I'm telling you that I'm so pissed at your lawyer right now. I can't see. I want to smack him. >> This is horrible.

But you did the deal. I guess it's final. >> So you need to go back and get clarity if she gets what half what 83,000 becomes or if she gets half of whatever's in there. >> It's going to be whatever's in there. Otherwise, they would have just transferred the 83 out.

>> They should have just transferred the 83 out. That's what they should have done. That would be normal instead of this dumb butt thing they did.

>> So >> yeah, John is correct. It is whatever is in there later cuz I tried to fight and get the half now, but then there were like, >> okay, then then here's what here's what it is. She gets half what that half becomes because it's not going to become anything else cuz you're not going to add anything else to it. You're stupid if you do.

>> Okay, >> but you are the one that signed this divorce decree [laughter] also. So, oh my god, this is a horrible man. It's just horrible. >> She has 30-year claim on future earnings for you. >> Jeez, man. >> Y'all have kids?

But we have two of them. >> I've heard I've heard a future. >> This is I want to get away from this woman really bad is what this is.

>> I've heard I've heard in a rightfully so a future claim on future earnings if you've got kids through the age of 18.

Right. So if you were making 25 grand and suddenly you're making 150 grand. >> That's child support. >> That's not this.

>> That's child support. That's normal. >> That's that's what I'm saying. I've heard of that.

>> That's normal. But half the 401k is normal. Half the TSP is normal. But you transfer it now and it rolls out into an IRA and then she goes whatever she does with it.

Okay, your answer is you have a truck you can't afford that you bought while you're grieving your broken heart and you broke your heart was broken by your wife and your idiot attorney.

So you've got to sell this truck, honey.

And I love Raptors. I drove one over here today. I like them, but this truck is brain damage. So it's killing you.

You cannot afford to drive this truck.

It's more truck than you can afford with the money you make. Sell your truck. Get your budget back balanced. and move into the future. And please don't put anything else in this TSP.

[music]

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Might not be in all states. All right.

Today's question comes from Abigail in West Virginia. Abigail writes, "My in-laws are too much to deal with, specifically my mother-in-law."

Abigail, she knows you wrote this. She I don't know how mother-in-laws know. They just know. She has to stick her nose into everything. She has a key to our house, which was bought by my husband before we got married. She's folded our laundry, cleaned our house, and moved stuff while we were not at home. Oh, man.

I've asked my husband to talk to her, but he told me he couldn't do it and told me to chill out.

>> You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem. >> You have a husband problem.

>> He's a wuss. >> God almighty.

[snorts] >> [laughter] >> Man, that makes me so uncomfortable to

think my mom would come over to our house. My mom's amazing, but my mom would come over and go through our >> unsolicited >> go through our stuff >> without your permission. >> And even more uncomfortable is my wife said, "I need you this to not happen again." And I said, "I can't do it. I

can't do it. I'm scared of my mommy." >> Oh my gosh, Abigail, you have a husband problem. He needs to run down to Walmart

on aisle three and pick up a backbone.

>> Yeah. And some pampers while he's there because he might tit in his pants while he talks to mommy. Y'all need to have this. I mean, this is >> this is awful. >> Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

>> This is awful. >> Uh, mother-in-law is going to do what?

Here's the deal. I think if And maybe she's controlling. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt. I think mother-in-law is trying to love her little baby the best she knows how.

>> She's trying to be helpful and she's screwed up. >> Yes. and she doesn't think you're loving him the say the right way, but she's not gonna say anything. She's just gonna keep doing it. And I think your cute little hubby is a gigantic 14-year-old

and he needs to grow up real real quick.

Yeah.

So, um, if you say a thing, you start a

10-year feud.

You can't say a thing. The only thing you can do is encourage your husband to get have a backbone. And um this is out

of line. The boundaries are there's no boundaries here. This is ridiculous and it needs to stop yesterday. Um tell him

you want the locks changed and you want

him to talk call his mother and tell her to not come in your home without clearing it with both of you first that you're a married couple and this is weird and she shouldn't be doing this.

Mom, we love you. Thank you for the help. You can't do this anymore. I've changed the locks. your key is not good anymore and you don't need to come in our home anymore. It's a real short calm conversation and he needs to man up and

do that. If he cannot do that, you do not have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem and you'll need to sit down with a marriage counselor.

>> Correct? And by the way, it's a husband listening to this, you don't call your mom and say, "Hey, >> my wife doesn't want you coming in the house anymore." >> You be a grown-up and you say, "I I messed up." Leave and cleave.

>> That's right. >> Leave your mother and father.

>> We need to figure out how to do these things on our own. >> Leave to your spouse.

>> Golly, dude. And mother-in-laws,

don't break into your kids' homes and do their laundry for them unless unless there's like a medical crisis or a newborn and they've asked for your help.

Don't do that. >> Even if there's a newborn and they ask for your help, you still ask permission.

>> Yes. Oh, of course. But I mean, that's what you've been invited. show up with a key that you had before they were married.

So, one of the best practical jokes we ever played was a key. Have you ever

heard this one? >> No. >> I had a personal assistant 25 years ago, beautiful Christian lady, and she got engaged. So for her engagement party,

all the guys, we took her to an ice hockey game in Nashville and the um the

announcer at the hockey game was a friend of mine. And so uh one of the guys in the office that was with us was about 10 guys went all throughout the whole section and handed every guy a

key. Went to the hardware store and got keys. And the announcer said, "Uh Sheree

is getting married next week. Anyone that has a key to her apartment needs to bring it to her." and like 500 [laughter] guys got up and started bringing keys to her. It was so it was such a wonderful practical joke. But yeah, that's that's much better than this one. [laughter]

>> This just makes me sad. >> Yeah, this is bad. Yeah. So, >> and can I tell you this one thing? So, one time um a friend of mine, they were having some family stuff and uh it was a

a couple friend of me and my wife's and we've known them forever and ever and ever. And they were going through some like just somebody passed away or something and I said, "Hey, let's get them a house cleaner

>> just to come in and clean up." And my wife looked at me and said, "Are you crazy?" Said, "What do you mean?" She

said, 'You know what that would feel like to me if somebody came over to see us and then they hired someone to come clean my house? >> Oh, it'd be like an insult. It >> insult. And so I got to say, mom coming over to clean the house and do the laundry is a little bit of a flex, >> right? It's a little bit of a flex. And so >> it's like cooking the lasagna.

>> It's like the recipe you got for lasagna. >> You're not taking care of my little my little boy the way he deserves to be taken care of. I'll I'll come over and help. It kind of feels like Ray Romano's mom. >> It's like It's like your underwear was folded wrong. That's Yes. I'm sorry, honey. I'll I'll do it for you. >> Yeah. >> And so [clears throat] grow up. >> Mother-in-law flex.

>> This whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable. Dave, I never feel uncomfortable. This one does.

>> This is like It's got It's got a little stalkeresque. >> It does.

>> She's got a key and she sneaks in like Keeblers's elves [laughter] or something

and cooks and does laundry. No, cuz this

is the kind of mother-in-law leaves a note that says, "Hey, I noticed things were messy, so I cleaned up and I vacuumed. [laughter] >> Y'all have a great night." And it's just like a little total flex.

>> But if you say anything, it's like, "Oh, oh, I was just trying to help. I'm so sorry. I I won't help anymore." >> Yeah. Right. >> Marty out the mart out. Mart out. She'll definitely m out. >> The old uh Oh, okay. Um there's some there's some

old Dairy Queen napkins in the glove box. I'll just eat those. Y'all just go eat wherever you want to. Um, I'll just

eat the old Kleenexes. Um, and I'll just sit in the car and be cold. And when you'all get done, y'all just come out. It's that. >> Hey, I did run into a guy the other day that's opening a new food truck called Wherever You Want to Go. >> That's the >> That's when everybody asks where they want to eat. It's wherever you want to go. >> Wherever you want to go. >> Okay, we're heading. We'll go >> right there. [laughter] There used to be a great little honky tonk in Leick, Texas called the library.

We'd be like, "Where you going?" We're going to the library. All right. Good.

The honky tonk. Going to the library.

>> Love it. All right, boys and girls, boundaries are necessary. Uh, and I will

admit um that the hardest stage of

parenting for me has been uh parenting

children who are no longer in my control. [laughter] It is the hardest stage to stay out of

other people's business that are grown-ups, even if they are from my flesh and blood. And um so that does not

matter. Uh, and I I I don't have any major issues. It's not like any of them are doing anything extremely stupid or something, but still just not telling grown-up people what they have to do with your dad voice. It it requires a

little bit of discipline. >> Yeah. >> Um, even even today, my son is studying for his first round of high school finals.

He's a freshman. And

I I know the science of studying. I know the pedigogy of studying. I have been a high school and a college teacher for my whole career.

And he's got to go through this first round of finals studying the way his he

rolls his eyes says, "Dad, I know." Okay. And right and it's hard because I want to go in there and say, "This is the way he's got to learn this time." And then next time we'll be able to speak from a place of, "All right.

>> All right. I need some help." >> Yeah. Show me how to do this. >> Right. And it's hard. It's hard when your when the your precious little Johnny's underwear isn't folded. Right.

mother-in-law. It's Abigail's husband now. >> Abigail, >> back up. >> Back up. Abigail, >> be cool. [music] Be cool, man. >> She has to stick her nose into everything.

>> It's the move stuff while we weren't home. Ah, >> that one's weird. Yeah, the came back.

The furniture's rearranged.

>> It's kind of like misery. >> Yeah, that's what I think. It's got a stalker-esque thing to it.

>> The penguin always faces Nora.

[laughter]

This is the Ramsy Show.

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[music] Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. I'm Dave Ramsey, [music] your host. This is the Ramsey Show. The phone number is88255225.

Thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate you being here. If you want to help us out, we can use the help. We really can. Uh follow the show on the

format or the platform that you're listening or watching. Click subscribe or click follow. It really helps our numbers big time and because it causes the show to be pushed forward with their algorithms and other people who don't know about it hear about it. It's the best promotion we get.

And also you share the show. A lot of these uh apps and um platforms have a share button or a share feature and you can just send an episode to somebody and let them watch it or listen to it. I was listening to a podcast this week. Friend of mine was on Tucker Carlson.

I said, "Hey man, listen to this." And I sent it to another friend of mine just like that and uh Tucker's got a great podcast that's going big. It's going Zoom Zoom right now. And so on. So I listened to one of Joe Rogan that was going Zoom Zoom is really good.

I sent it, you know, just share it. Just do, you know, anytime you read a good book, Jack Carr's got a new book out.

>> fabulous if you don't know Jack he's he was a former SEAL and so these are all Navy Seal books and they're like you know shoot them up spy movie type stuff and they're great books fiction obviously and uh yeah but so it has a bullet hole in it. It's amazing. I I I maybe want to do that with my next book. >> I think that would be fantastic.

>> Has absolutely nothing to do with the book, which his does, but I still want to do it anyway. Yeah, that's pretty cool. All right. Uh Kathy's in Philadelphia.

Hi, Kathy.

>> Hello. Um [clears throat] I'm calling today with a question I can hope uh or I hope you guys can help me with. Uh my husband and I are considering putting in a solar array to

offset our utility bill >> and I was um I just wanted to like bounce the numbers off of you and see if it was a smart move with where we're at.

>> Okay. >> Currently. >> Okay. >> Um so Hubs and I are like between baby

steps five and six. I guess like we have a substantial amount of money in savings, but we haven't earmarked that.

Like specifically this is child A, this is child B, there's their college fund.

>> Mhm. >> Um they're pretty young yet. Um three

and five. Uh we feel like we've got some time to >> So you would pay cash for the solar.

>> That's what we want to do. How much is it um for the solar?

>> Uh the unit's about 53,000.

>> Okay. And what is the um what's the break even on it?

Uh they say they have it calculated out and we looked at the numbers about eight years we'd have it all back between like the ITC and our like state credits for Pennsylvania and FC and those things.

>> Okay, that's borderline. I usually look for a five to a seven-year break even.

And um most of the time that you see that you're going to get that it's going to be in a area of the country that is

um a lot of sun. [laughter]

>> So I mean like you know Phoenix, Arizona type of a thing. You're you know that kind of thing. You're not going to it's a little different than Philly and not Seattle. You know that kind of stuff. So you just think about what you got. I don't know the technical parts. What I do know from the financial side is I've been doing this for 35 years. I've watched the solar panel efficiency

as far as what's the break even meaning what do you pay for it? How does how quickly can it convert the energy? How efficiently can it convert the energy?

Thus, how fast it saves you money. I've watched the technology on that. Uh it's probably five or 10 times better than it was 30 years ago. It's really come a long long way. It used to just be total crap and now it's like I actually endorse solar companies in a couple of cities that we have talk radio on, you know, and I'm fine to do that as long I don't endorse financing it obviously. Um but

um but generally I tell folks a five to a seven. Uh your eight is borderline.

What I might do is see if they're selling you some bells and whistles you could take off that would still get you that would get you down to the 40,000 range or so and that might get you to a six or a sevenyear break even. Maybe they got you um you know with a convertible and power windows. I don't know. Right.

>> Right. Right. Absolutely. >> You know, check that out, learn about that.

That's what I would do if I were in this situation. But uh >> I'd run one more company, too.

>> That's a good idea. >> Well, we ran two companies and we actually have gotten from 75,000 down to 52,000,000 by pitting them against each other. So, we feel like kind of >> that's about where I mean, I could bring in a third company, but I feel like at this point, you know, if we've come down 25,000 almost >> a good start. That's a good start. See, they got some margin in that crap, huh?

That's cool. Okay. So, I knew they were making bank, but um uh yeah, I'm a fan

of the technology. I'm not a fan of the

You're not doing this, but for the rest of you out there that they really try to force a payment plan on you and go, "Look, your payment is less than the amount you're going to save on your electric bill." No, that's dumb butt stuff cuz the things are attached to your house and then you're you got a mess. You got an a lean on your property. You got all kinds of mess. No, do not finance them ever. Do not finance anything ever. You're listening to Dave Freaking Ramsay. Okay. So, but the uh

but you're not doing that. But the that's for everybody else. The the technology has come a long long way. I

will tell you this, Kathy. I think it's going to go a long way further.

So, like if you sell your house in seven years or eight years, probably what's

attached to your house is crap.

>> Okay. Okay. >> It'd be like you had a 7-year-old computer or a 7-year-old cell phone. You know how

much further it's come along. That's the rate. That's the pace of change in the technology. And so, don't think this is going to enhance the sale of your house.

It's probably cluttering the sale of your house a decade from today. That's why I want you to get a quick break even on it because it's just, you know, what is a seven-year-old computer? A doors stop. You know, that's what it is.

you know, it's like what? It has to boot up, you know. It's like, you know, >> where's the DOS? >> What is this?

What is this strange speech ball thing? You know, it's like, you know.

I want to pull the music off of it because my my I don't let my son have a phone out in the wild. Um but I said, I want you to fill it with old country songs." >> And this he looked at me like I had just handed him a box of fresh dog turds.

She's antiques. >> What is this? I don't know what to do with this thing. >> Fresh dog. >> Yeah, I probably could have used a better analogy on your radio show, Dave, but >> our radio show. You're >> radio show. There we go. >> Thank you. >> But yeah, it it was uh it was strange, but hey, he took it back and figured it out, man. >> Yeah, there you go. Well, because he's that guy. Alex is with us. Alex is in

Tallahassee. Hi, Alex. How are you?

>> Good. How about yourself, Dave and John?

>> Good. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I uh my wife and I have a little scenario. We currently have uh owned seven properties. Uh one of them is my

primary residence and then six investments. The three of the investment properties are paid off and uh we we've

been discussing about maybe selling two properties and selling two properties would pay off the remaining of the balance that I have on the four other properties that still have a mortgage on them. >> You'd be 100% debtree >> including my primary. Yes, sir.

I would do that >> right now today.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Today. Okay. >> I I love real estate. I love real estate, Alex, but I like being debtree more.

>> I agree. And we were trying to hold on to it, not sell properties and just add more to the portfolio just for our children in the future. But, uh, >> you'll be able to do that because you won't have any payments.

>> I see. >> Yeah.

Homeowners is for owner occupied only.

But fire see I you know you got to run the analysis on it. I didn't think about you being in Florida. Gh super expensive. You're right. Just run an analysis on it and go how much of this pain am I willing to absorb? What happened if they all got wiped off the face of the earth by a hurricane? What would you do?

I wish you had insurance. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. That's what I'm That's I run a worst case scenario through my emotional uh filters [music] and see if I end up crying or not. This is the Ramsey show.

[music]

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[music]

Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host [music] today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at8255225.

[music] Corey is with us in Washington DC. Hi

Corey, how are you?

>> Hi. I'm well, thanks. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I am trying to figure out how to get out of a stuck situation. I'm living um I

went through a divorce which was a really terrible relationship and jumped into my um mother's home um for the time

being which has been way too long now.

Um and I have in the process I came in to her home with $50,000 in credit card debt and a car loan which I've since paid off. Um I've not >> You paid off all the credit card debt and all the all the and the car both?

>> Yes, all that. >> Way to go. How long have you been there?

I have been here for six years.

>> Oh. >> So, I've paid that off and I've saved I I and I went back to school um all in

that time and got a decent job and now make three times the amount that I was making when I started my job.

>> Now I make 118. >> Why are you still there?

>> Um because this market here, I started

looking um in 2020 for homes. Um, I'd

been outbid several times by like $40,000 at >> How old are you?

>> 45. >> Okay. Why have you not gone and just rented something?

>> So, >> you're debtree and you make $120,000 a year. You can rent something.

>> Yeah. The rentals around here for a three-bedroom, I have three kids and myself. For a threebedroom, it's about $3,000 a month. So, at that point, I thought I was just throwing away money.

Um, my income has gone up each year pretty substantially. Um, so I keep

feeling like I'm chasing the carrot. I get to like a point where I could potentially make it work and then the,

you know, the rents go up and the mortgage, the prices on the houses go up and of course the interest rates are up.

So I feel like I can never just get a grasp on something that I can actually move comfort comfortably into. Um, so

now I'm trying to figure out, do I just put everything on hold as far as trying to buy a home? >> No. Well, the secret to happiness is lower expectations.

You're trying to move into a neighborhood in an area that your income does not allow you to do.

>> Understood? >> And you probably won't be able to catch that that carrot.

And I don't want you being 55 and living with your mother. I don't want your children graduating from high school living with their grandmother.

>> Yeah. And that's the other thing. I have nothing saved up for them to to go to school. >> Yeah. But the the point is that you have you have painted yourself a a world where you have decided that you are

trapped by housing prices and rental prices.

>> Okay. >> And you're not >> with with um so I get paid bi-weekly

um and I get paid about $2,600. Again,

this my my income just went up in January. Um, I was getting paid several hundred less per month last year and the year before. Um, so with that, what can

I afford? Because I keep looking at all these other bills. Um,

>> if I understood you right, you're debtree and you have how much saved?

>> About it's close to 60.

>> And you make $118,000 a year and you have three children. >> Mhm. >> Did I understand all of that right?

>> Yes. And you did all of that in six years coming out of a bro broken, toxic, horrible marriage. I'm so proud of you.

>> And you got a degree. You're freaking amazing. >> Well done.

>> Well done. >> You've really accomplished a lot here.

And um the the the thing I think I'm

hearing and I might be wrong, Corey, but

I think I'm hearing that um that

probably in the marriage and and definitely with mom, the home that you're living in were both nicer than the home that you can afford now and you're having trouble with that.

>> Um probably. Yeah, I've definitely

>> looked at lowering, you know, some of my living, you know, what I I'm used to.

But >> yeah, the home that your mom is in now, did you grow up in that home?

>> No. >> Okay. So, the home you grew up in was not as nice as the home that you're currently staying in?

>> No. >> And you're not damaged because of that?

>> Yeah. I I wouldn't I mean, this house is okay. It's not like fantastic or anything like that. >> Could you afford to buy it if it was on the market? No. >> Okay, that's the point. Your childhood

home though, you might. And your children will not be damaged if they move into a home that's not something off of the u the the the real estate

channel on, you know, being redone by Chip and Joanna. Okay. So, um, I want

you to get your toe in the water in some kind of piece of real estate and establish sustainability of your own life. Whether that's an inexpensive rental and you have a little bit too far of a commute or it's not a stellar piece of property that's that lines up with all of your all of your wants, but but does cover your needs. Um, but but I

think you've set your um you're you're I

think the reason you're chasing the carrot is you set the carrot pretty far out on the stick. >> And I'm gonna pull the carrot back in and grab a hold of it and take a bite out of it. >> I I think it's probably both and it's it's moved the carrot out and the housing market has gotten tough, especially in DC. >> I'm not saying it's not tough, but I'm saying the way she can enter the market making $120,000 a year with a $60,000 down payment is probably not I mean DC is super expensive.

you're going to be outside of DC. You're not you're not buying a place.

>> You're not buying a place in um >> LA or San Francisco. You know, that used

to be when you made $100,000 a year, you'd made it. >> But not anymore, >> right? >> And not with housing prices being what they are. And so you're in a market

where uh your expectations burst on

based on your fabulous progress that you've made. I'm very proud of you, but it may mean that you go somewhere else.

>> And I Dave, I this is like a a thing I

want to be emphatic about.

There's going to be things you want to give your kids. Like she even mentioned, I don't even have any college savings. I don't have this. I don't have this. Your kids can share a room. Your kids can put themselves through college. Your kids can do so much. What her kids have that I don't think she has recognized yet is they have a mom >> who's a warrior >> who is in extraordinary. Yes.

>> The greatest gift my parents gave me was not college. They didn't they didn't have the money to pay for college. It wasn't a car. It was it wasn't any of those things.

It was I had two parents that always scratched and clawed. And both of them had midlife career changes and I watched them flourish. And lo and behold, this opportunity came up when I had a career and I had the courage to go do something else and I had the work ethic and all the stuff. That's what she's given her kids.

And it's not something you can buy. It's something you witness.

That's the greatest gift you can give your kids. It just is. All the other stuff's gravy. >> The number of people that shared a bedroom with a sibling that ended up in

counseling because of that alone is zero. >> There's a lot of kids, I'm telling you right now, I just had this conversation this weekend um in Utah with the behavior services team. There's a lot of people in counseling because they have never shared a room. They've never had to negotiate anything other than whatever they want whenever they want it and then they go to college or then they get married and their whole universe explodes because somebody else has a different opinion about something >> because somebody said, "Oh, the access of the world does not run through the top of your little head." >> Who knew?

I've never had one say the right thing to do developmentally for a college kid is to share a room. I can't sell it anymore because these kids are coming from their own bedrooms and their own bathrooms and their own Whirlpool tub.

So, I have to make these single ones.

But if it was if I was the king for a day, >> you mean there's not a skylight? >> Everybody has to to share room. Can we get the sushi delivered to our dorm room? No.

>> Yes. Kids can share rooms. They can they're so resilient, especially when you have a mom like that. So, >> um >> you've you've given them a gift, Cory.

They can change schools. It's It's okay.

It's okay. >> You've given them a gift by uh stepping out of a horrible situation and then

>> um standing kneede in that manure and flourishing. >> Yeah. It's amazing. >> And and using that as fertilizer and have grown and grown and grown and grown. I'm so proud of you. You're an amazing lady. Um I I think your real estate is just I I think your problem is unrealistic expectations with your numbers. So, that's going to mean you either um that you change probably the neighborhoods you've been looking in, whether it be for buying or for renting.

And um it may be a long commute, it may mean a complete move, it may mean a lot of other things. But uh and [music] that's not to say I think that Washington DC real estate's cheap. It's quite the opposite. It's basically [music] crazy. This is the Ramsay Show.

Heat.

[music] Heat.

[music]

>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr.

John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 88255225.

Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel.

How are you?

>> Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Uh, big fan of the show.

Uh, me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move it. Well, sorry. Sorry. We have been dating for four years and we'd like to move in together and potentially

well, we'd like to get married, but I was just curious on what your thoughts were. >> Uh, the data is not in your favor.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually um doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income

and something as simple as household income over time is less than those who

are married. Not to mention this the statistics the the relationship not making it over time. Um how long have y'all been dating?

>> Uh four years. >> Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on?

Um, I would like to do it. Um, my parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for 6 months to a year prior.

Um, I would like to do it. It's just that I I'm also heeding their advices.

>> How old are you? >> My parents I'm 20 25 26 and a month.

>> Okay. So, if you if you already have your if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast?

Uh, I was just curious what your guys's opinions was. >> You already knew. >> Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the data and you're like, "Yeah, I already knew that." >> Right.

Um, we both think we're very like financially uh sound. We've saved up a bunch of money. So, I'm just curious if that changes anything or No. >> No. How old were you when you got married? >> Me? Yeah. 24.

>> Okay. I was 22.

>> Yeah. I've been married 43 years.

>> I'm I'm 23 and a2. >> I I I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

>> I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. >> I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes. >> Yeah, [laughter] we disagree all the time.

>> Not really. >> And I'm usually right. That's That's even harder. >> Not really. Yeah. [laughter]

Let >> Let me tell you this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl? Yes, sir. >> Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, "As for me in my household."

>> Yeah. Your your mom and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son. >> They can only advise you.

>> Right. Um, so my next question would be, >> and neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do.

>> Yes, sir. Understood. So, we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for

uh engagement ring or rings.

>> Oh, in our area for like New York City

and Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. Uh we've traveled to a few cities. Um we we just we're other than

like we figure you guys recommend a quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions we graduated together with associates degrees.

>> Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. So, um, yes, one month

of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. Um, and yes, 1/4th of

your take-home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent because you don't create a sustainable situation.

You're short on money, your house poor, when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So, if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years, and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you.

But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take-home, you got a bad formula.

It's not You're going to struggle with that one. >> Oh, but they're in New York, so all rents going to be free from now on. That they're going to be good.

>> Yeah. >> No, too soon. >> Yeah. [laughter] Plus, plus or minus the rats. Yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. Um, and I'm not talking about the rodents, but Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I I I don't know. It's um uh

No, Daniel. Um the math still has to

math even in New York.

And um so yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associates degrees into

uh sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people live leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began, people

have done that until they can afford to do it. And so um you know and and New

York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo,

London, San Francisco, I mean these are this is the list, right? Paris, these are very

uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but it's just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in

London. That'll get your attention.

Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott?

>> Hey guys, uh thanks for taking my call.

Um my wife and I, we are almost done

with uh Baby Sub 2. Um I'm 49 years old.

Um, I was approached today um at work to

purchase a long-term care policy. It's a >> nursing home care. >> It says, >> yeah, >> yeah, it says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term will pay you%. >> You don't need it. >> That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main >> The main deal is long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. the percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero.

>> Okay? >> So, we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self-insure.

Just pay for the nursing home or pay for inhome care or whatever you're going to do. Okay? But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old and the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years, it's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically, the guy dies before the lady 75% of the time. And so, Papa goes

in the nursing home, uses up all the money, and then dies, leaves mama broke.

That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40.

>> 49. >> 49. You don't need it till you're 60.

>> I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it.

>> That's where I was I was a little hesitant. And I have a I have a life insurance policy now, a term life that's done um I guess until I'm Yeah, it's at

75 it ends.

>> Um I also have insurance through uh through the military. Um >> Mhm. >> should I be purchasing any other type of >> well life insurance you need if uh about 10 to 12 times your income on you

>> to cover your family if you die. And

that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone. They'll be grown. Hopefully, they'll be gone. And uh and so that's that's the game plan.

And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And you so you you you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance.

>> [music]

[music]

>> So many years ago, we came up with this great idea. There were these new things on your phones called an app, an

application.

So we decided that Ramsay should have an app that would do your budget and we worked and we worked and we worked and we worked on it and we developed really

over the last uh decade or so the world's best budgeting app without a doubt. It's called Every Dollar because every dollar has an assignment by you.

You assign every one of your dollars a place to go give it a name. Well, what has ended up happening then is that over the last three or four years, we've invested a bazillion dollars and uh in

programming and in brilliant digital minds inside this building that do things I can't even spell and um have

managed to integrate into it the whole

Ramsay plan, the Ramsay way. So, like

you guys call in and ask us detailed, nuanced questions about what you do at this baby step or what do I do there, what do I do there? and and we've actually got almost all of that now answered inside of Every Dollar. So, the

allnew Every Dollar, we just relaunched it the other day and it's a complete

game changer. You can watch the premiere on your on our YouTube channel and see see it how it works in action. What happens is when you go in, if you've been there before, do it again. If you've never been, go now and get get

into the Every Dollar app because what happens in just the first 15 minutes or so, you're going to find thousands of dollars of margin. And then we're going to start showing you how to apply it using the Baby Steps framework and the Ramsy way, so to speak. And the Ramsey way basically is we're going to take you from debt into wealth and generosity.

Change your whole family tree. We want you to get there. And so imagine

how much you could find to put towards your money goals. The allnew Every Dollar. It's here. Check it out. Jake is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Jake. How are you? >> Good, guys. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> So me and my wife were 24 um fresh out of college a few years ago. Uh so we decided to uh build a home, our forever

home. Um and the cost kind of got out of

control. Our parents stepped in. My parents stepped in. Me and my wife have been blessed to have our parents by our side. Um they actually followed your financial piece back in 2000. Uh there's a different story behind that, but they're very uh they've accumulated some wealth over the years. Um they've handed us over a lump sum of money um to help

us build this house um and whatever is left over, we will pay back in a mortgage payment to them. Um me and my wife make about 130,000 a year um before

taxes um with a commission bonus for myself at the end of the year. So my question is and we we do have a um a good amount of savings from the past years of working about $120,000 in savings. Um >> I'm sorry. You have $120,000 in savings.

>> Why the flip did your parents have to give you money?

>> They have been working so hard their whole life to set their kids up. Um, and so they want to help every single one of their kids out. Um, I'm one of three brothers. >> Yeah, but you made it sound like you got in trouble and they bailed you out.

>> Oh, no, no, no, sir. No, no, no.

>> So, what happened with the house? You got You bought too much house. What's the deal with the house? >> Uh, yeah. So, we're building. Um.

>> Oh, you're still building? >> Yeah, we're still building. We're in the foundation phase right now. >> Oh, you just started building?

>> Yes. So, the deal was with them um was we can collaborate with them. They can help out. I mean, we have a really good relationship with our parents. I worked for them actually. Um, and they wanted,

this is what they wanted to do for us. And so we kindly accepted it. Um, and

any cost after their initial lump sum that they handed over, uh, we would pay back to them in a mortgage. And, and so I guess my question is is me and my wife are still young. We're 24. We're not thinking about kids right now. Um, do we

give up a lot of that savings that we have straight back to them at the beginning? Um, or do we have some of that, keep most of it and travel and and have fun in our early 20s? >> So, do I borrow money from my parents when I'm newly married to travel?

>> That's in essence what this where this lands when I say it that way. Does it sound as crazy to you as it does to me? >> Yeah, a little bit. >> Okay. Yeah. No,

you you you like did grownup stuff and went and bought a house at 24 years old.

pay for your stinking house and then start talking about traveling. Do you have a good relationship with your parents? >> Very good. >> The shest ways and >> the shest way to blow it up is to have money in between you.

>> Okay. >> And I know that's a weird hard thing to say at 24, especially when you got two people who are like, "No, it's no big deal. It's no big deal." Just take it from two older guys.

>> Clear the money between your relationships so that it can stay as good as it is right now. >> I think I heard a two-stage deal here.

like they gave you a gift of a certain amount and that even wasn't enough and so then they loaned you more. Is that right? >> Yes. They loaned us the full amount of

whatever it cost for the house we're paying for it in cash >> um to build. So they're not taking a loan out from any they're they've been completely debtree since 2008.

>> I know. But you now owe them >> Yeah. >> a mortgage payment.

>> Okay. So that part where they went through Financial Peace University, they flunked the class cuz we tell you not to do that ever. Don't ever loan your children money.

>> Oh my god. >> Because it puts a wedge between the relationship. >> Yeah. The borrower is slave to the lender. Now you have to eat dinner. Hey, eat Thanksgiving dinner with your master.

>> Yeah. Okay. >> That's going to be painful for your wife. >> Not going to bother you much because it's your parents, but it's going to be painful for your wife.

>> Understood. So, how much money do you owe your parents that you have to pay the mortgage on?

>> Um, [snorts] probably going to be around 200 to 250,000.

>> Okay. And how much of a gift did they give you? >> Um, about 50% of the total cost to

build. So, about 200 to 250,000.

>> So, you're 24 years old, you make 130, and you got a $450,000 house.

>> Uh, yes.

>> Dang, Gina. Okay.

>> It's a lot of house, dude. It's [laughter] a lot of house. >> All right. Um, well, for sure the answer to your question is no, you don't need to go on vacation.

Yes, you need to 100 do the take the 130,000, but I'm even going to go a step further. I'm going to put the 130,000 with your mom and dad to limit the size of the mortgage. And then I'm going to go get a commercial mortgage, not from your parents, >> okay? >> Because I don't want this mortgage.

I don't want you paying payments to your parents for any amount of money, for any amount of interest.

Um, here here's here's what what I would say. I can see myself working really

hard so I can I can bulldoze a path for

my son and his new wife. I get that.

But if my son was to hand me a check for 130 grand and say, "Dad, I've got this money saved up. This is the part of the mortgage and then I want you to see here. I'm giving you the rest of it. I took out a commercial loan because I want to just stay your son. I don't want to stay one of your like I don't I don't want you to be my banker." I would be so

proud. And in a way, you're kind of not showing him up, but you're kind of saying, "I'm taking this by I'm taking the reigns here." It would show a level of wisdom and maturity. Uh, I'm trying to give him as much grace as I can, Dad.

Because the arrangement he's put you in is madness. It It just ends in somebody

wanting you to do something for Christmas and your wife doesn't want to.

And it's like, well, after all we've It just It's just a recipe for disaster.

But man, if you went and did what Dave just said, go get a commercial loan for the rest of it. And by the way, that's a tiny mortgage. >> It's a 100 $120,000 mortgage.

>> It's a tiny tiny tiny mortgage. Just go do that, man. You'll have that paid off in no time with as much money as y'all make. >> Um, >> if you don't go on trips. Yeah, if you don't go to Europe, and by the way, Europe, Dave, I trips are more fun when

I when I'm older now. I don't know why.

They just are. >> Well, they're more fun because they don't follow you home.

Um, but and in essence, that's what this ends up being. So, I don't have to increase the amount we borrow from mom and dad >> by the amount that we spend on the trips. >> And so, it's like borrowing on the trip.

Borrowing from mom and dad to go on a trip. And obviously, that would be ludicrous. So, moms and dads, those of you that graduated from Financial Peace University with a better grade than that mom and dad got, um, uh, which was an F,

um, here's the rule, okay? If you want to give your children some money and they pay cash for a house and, uh, part

of the bargain is they never borrow money again because you want your family tree to be completely changed, great.

Never make your child, your grown child,

your slave.

You change your relationship with your daughter-in-law, your son-in-law. You change the relationship in how you interact with each other. It's just you're adding layers to it that you were, but they're very real. And no one

is the exception. Even a nice master is

a [music] master.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsay

Solutions on the debtree stage. Dimma

and Rhonda are with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. Where do you two live? >> We live in Durham, North Carolina.

>> Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville and good to have you guys.

How much debt have you two paid off?

>> Um, we've paid off $266,192.

Woo. [laughter]

>> How long did this take? >> Um, oh my god. >> Uh, four years and 8 months.

>> Golly. All right. And your range of income during that time? >> Uh, our starting salary was 138,000 and

our ending salary was 284,500.

>> Look at you two. Woo.

>> What do you all do? [laughter] What do you do for a living? >> Oh, well, I'm actually in compensation.

I work for a medical tech company. So, um I'm a compensation in the compensation role. >> Okay. >> I don't even know what that means. That must [laughter] pay really well. >> Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks >> for real.

>> Um I'm a licensed clinical mental health counselor and >> you ain't [laughter] making $280,000, I tell you that. >> Not at all. I'm also a professor as well. >> Okay, there you go. [laughter] >> Very good. Good for you guys.

>> That's awesome, guys.

>> Way to go. So, what kind of debt was the 266? >> Yeah. So, it was a uh car loan, uh credit card loan, >> and Deeus grad school. >> Student loans. [laughter] >> I'm telling you right now. I know that. >> Absolutely. Student loans.

>> Yes. So, my um my um student loans were

150,000 and Rhonda's were 100,000.

>> About 100. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's um undergraduate, graduate, and doctorate. And >> Yeah. And so for me, I went out of state, Dave, and a private institution.

>> Yeah. >> And then I went on and got a masters after that. So, talk about like ping it on. >> Yeah. Ping it on. Okay. So, how long have you two been married?

>> Oh, this year c we're celebrating 10 years. >> So, halfway through, five years ago, >> yeah, >> something happened. What happened? What What set you off on this stuff?

>> He decided to go get that uh last degree. And we were already like, if you

want to think about it, we were like 800 and something in student loans, just me, with Dimma's student loans being in forbearance. And we're like, what are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017 and Dimma started school and we're like we cannot take on my loans daycare and then

when Dimma get like his student loans we were scared like what's that going to look like? >> Yeah. It just kept stacking up till it got scary. >> Yeah. It got really scary. >> Then what happened? What'd you do?

>> I mean we we're graduates of the Financial Peace Institute University. So I think we were just kind of taking it baby steps baby steps. But when we realize what we're going to be under with all the student we were just like we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional.

>> Time to get hardcore. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> All right. So, you lean in. Yeah.

>> And uh what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did?

>> Oh, we we started doing the monthly

monthly meetings talking about our finances. Um >> hard conversations. >> Hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course, we we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're like paying with cash and and if it wasn't on our our monthly, you know, things that we had talked about, then we weren't doing it. Um, what would you say?

>> Who's the spender? [laughter] >> I see it, man. >> I was hoping you would ask, Dave, >> well, your shoes are shot from here.

Your [laughter] watch is blinding me.

>> Let me say this. He um for his birthday, he um was like, "Oh, let's go. Let's let's get this car. Let's let's test drive it." on his birthday, we ended up walking away with a car. So, I would say Dave, after we got intentional, that car we sold it >> and we were upside down. So, we're like, but we can't. And we made sure that anything else we had, we were paying cash for as far as cars.

>> And that was really the testament that he was able to say, "Hey, I love the car, but I want us to get us out of debt." And sold the car.

>> Yeah. Being debtree was more more important. >> Absolutely. So, y'all made a incredible

combined salary together.

Both of y'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y'all drive up and y'all ain't driving quarter million dollar cars. >> No, I you know we still own I have a 2010 Mazda. >> Yes. [laughter] >> Runs great. It runs great mysterious compensation jobs.

>> Yes, absolutely. You know, we're like, "Hey, we can't get rid of this." It's like, you know, we thinking about gas prices and things like that, but it's making us more intentional and saying like, now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do? >> Definitely humbling ourselves and um having faith in the process um was a struggle, but you know, I'd definitely say be persistent and resilient.

>> Absolutely. >> Cuz you know what, Dave, like we're all taught to like pay off debt, but then it's like what do you do after you pay off debt? And so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off >> four years. I mean that's a habit pattern right there, >> right?

Right. >> Four years of doing nothing. >> Yeah. Basically, [laughter] >> but you know what?

One of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say, "What are we going to do?" And I remember our birthday, we had $100 and so what are we going to do with that? >> We went and we did a day trip to the beach and that's been the most memorable trip. And it was like we packed sandwiches, we we everything was free and we're like, "Wow." And I'm like I'm still talking about that birthday. [laughter] >> So it it's like be humble and you'll be surprised.

I think even Dimma made me a birthday cake.

>> There you go. >> And Dimma can I tell you being a professor being a mental health practitioner >> yes >> I've always wondered um if you want to do this this scientific study um I'll put it on the air for you.

>> I always wondered if you're somebody in

the helping profession if you're a professor how much do you have to curb what the research says? How much do you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say?

>> Because you're not really supposed to say that. And I owe somebody money.

>> Yeah. >> And now the students that you're going to be teaching, >> they're going to get an unfiltered view cuz nobody nobody you don't you know [laughter] nobody's telling you what to do anymore. No knife over your head. >> And you're going to be able to sit there and tell these these clients of yours.

Here's the truth.

>> Cuz I don't know anybody anything, man.

I can I can speak from here now. Does that Does that make sense? >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debtree just the the freedom if you will like like you mentioned Dr.

John like that freedom that you have um to kind of um you you have that discretionary income if you will. Um it's we're still working through the baby steps but you have more freedom and there's no there's no one um there's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay. >> Awesome. Yeah, >> man.

I'm proud of you guys. >> Well done. We're proud of you. Excellent.

Way to go, heroes. >> Thank you. How does it feel?

mean Dr. Donnie said it. It it just to not owe anybody anything. Like we're

like what can we do now? It's it's really challenging us to say what do we want to do with our careers and like how do we give back? It's like it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge and and so we're we're just like just ready and fired up about it. >> It's refreshing. Like our budget meetings are it's a different it's a [laughter] different vibe. >> Oh yeah. I can tell you smiling.

>> Yes. And we can't thank you to thank you too in the whole Damy uh Ramsay crew.

Yeah. Thank you all. >> Way to go y'all. We're proud of you.

>> This is one of the rare couples that they both married well. [laughter]

>> Y'all both did all right. >> Thank you. Me and we we won out in our marriages, [laughter] but y'all both did real well. That's awesome. >> Thank you. Appreciate it.

>> That's great. Very well done, you two.

Very well done. All right. It's Dimma and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina.

$266,000 paid off in four years and 8 months,

making 138 to 284. Count it down. Let's

hear a debtree scream. 3 2 1 We're

debtree.

>> Yeah. [screaming] Let's go.

>> I love [applause and cheering] it. Well done. Very well done.

Yeah, I guess um the the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically. But it's particularly I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this uh 266 breathing down your neck. So you can just kind of go, yeah, here's the truth.

>> Well, and and and you you sit at the table and this is what this is how we're going to teach this or this is how we're saying this or if you have this belief, you're stupid. And if you owe a whole bunch of money, you kind of got to put your head down and go to the next thing.

>> Got to bite your tongue. >> Um, and so now Deema's been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen, man.

>> Way to go, heroes. This is the Ramsay Show.

[music]

[music] Heat. Heat.

[music]

[music] Our

scripture today, 2 Corinthians 1:4, he comforts us all in our troubles [music] so we can comfort others. When we when they are troubled, we will be able to give them the same comfort God has given us. Jordan Peterson says, "Face the demands of life voluntarily.

Respond to a challenge instead of bracing for catastrophe." Amberly is with us in Concord, New Hampshire. Hey, Amberly. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

[snorts] >> Well, I [clears throat] my husband and I have made a series of um really bad

financial mistakes and um we were just

wondering if we should sell our house this year or next year.

>> What kind of mistakes?

Well, we we're house poor. Um we bought

a duplex that um you know, we're it's

overwhelming. We have to where we pay about three grand a month and uh we only

make about 60 grand gross.

>> So, what why would you wait a year?

You're drowning.

>> I know we are. What is it you're waiting on? >> Um, well, I I I'm the main person uh who

does the budget and I was I was just I

for some reason it seems like we make we

we do somewhat make a little bit more money if by staying here, but I feel like it's wrong. Like I feel like it would be better if we can move.

>> I'm confused. It feels like you make more money. Math is not a feeling. Do you make more money or not?

[snorts] >> Well, we we make 60 grow 60 grand gross

and then um we also get 2500 a month

from the other side. And so

[clears throat] it I don't know. I I know we probably should and we're we're >> Do you not like being a landlord, Amberly?

>> No. >> Okay. >> I don't. >> Oh, that's solid. Yeah. Be honest about the problem. This I can hear it says this thing's a brick around your neck.

>> Yeah. >> Your sanity is not worth it. >> It is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Stupid house.

>> Yeah, it is. And we found out that our

our tenant has been running the water um

24/7.

And so, sorry, I'm just It's a little

overwhelming being on the air. Sorry. Um It's >> okay. You're good. >> We've never lost a patient. You're okay.

Yeah. And um I I want to and we're in

we're in this market where I know that we could technically, you know, this house would appreciate, but >> doesn't matter. >> I do want [clears throat] to get >> It doesn't matter. It's it's not fun.

>> No. >> Everything in this conversation says you're not having fun.

>> No. >> This house has not been a blessing. It's been a curse.

>> Yeah. And Tik Tok told you that the way to wealth is to buy a duplex, rent the other side, they'll pay your mortgage, and you're going to >> And now it's not fun. >> Now it's not fun. >> You found out Tik Tok was wrong. Oh, there's a shock.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> So, I mean, should we put it on the

market like next month or I mean >> by Friday? Yeah. Friday. Friday. Friday sounds good.

>> Okay. >> I'm not kidding. >> Okay. >> I'm not kidding. If I have something I own that I hate as bad as you hate this,

>> even if I made a mistake and I'm ashamed to admit the mistake, I'm still going to admit the mistake. I want to kill it as soon as I can kill it. I want it I want it in my rearview mirror as a distant memory of dumb things I've done.

Otherwise, every time you drive up the driveway, you're going, I don't feel really good about me.

>> Yeah. >> And you can't be the wife you want to be. You can't be the mom you want to be. You can't be the employee you want to be. It affects every every square of your life. You're not you're not having fun. We can hear it. And it's not just you're scared to be on the air. It's your whole situation, right?

>> Yeah. I >> mean, if you had a house payment you could afford, you could breathe again.

You're having trouble getting a full lung full of air right now.

>> Yeah.

It's overwhelming. I'm scared.

>> Yeah. I can We can hear it. And And it it's not being mean to you. I've been exactly where you are. That's how I can identify it. I smell it. I know what it feels like. And um so the thing is that

that uh the faster you act on this, the

quicker you're going to get peace.

>> Yeah. >> And peace is really our goal here.

You got plenty of time to buy a different house. Plenty of time to make

different real estate decisions, sell this thing, and go rent an apartment or something for 6 months and breathe a little bit, and then slow down and make

a better real estate decision the next time you move into real estate. You can do this. >> Okay? So, go to ramseysolutions.com and click on uh real estate ELPs for Ramsey

trusted real estate agents, people we trust that we have vetted, and they'll help you get the thing on the market and help you get it sold ASAP. That's what I would do if I were in your shoes. I like real estate, but I hate real estate.

Isn't that interesting? Because I see what it does to people when you do it wrong, including me.

It's It leaves a mark. It's not fun.

Alejandro is with us in Miami. What's

up, Alejandro?

>> Oh, excuse me. Sorry, I just drank water. No trouble. >> Hello. Um, yes. My question is, is it

worth it to go to college? Now, the reason why I'm asking that is because I have u, you know, my brother, he's basically studying in US and he's been

going to college for basically eight years now because he's getting his doctors now. He's a, you know, straight

A student and everything. And um my my

worrisome is that his debt is five digits. So no. Yeah, it's five digits basically. So he's going from like let's say from 9,000 to 60,000 and like the

amount of debt that he's getting is ridiculous, right?

>> And are we asking about you or him?

>> I was um this is more for for him than it is for myself. Well, he's already made his decision,

>> right? Right. But I what I wanted to know is that like from what I see in the

market overall, I see employers basically asking more than what they could give off as in like a story that he was telling me is that, oh, hey, there's a position that they like his degree, but they're only offering like 70,000 instead of the

range that the college promised them.

And that's kind of like, you know, kind of >> what is what is his degree going to be in to continue the degree? >> Sports medicine. >> Okay. Right. And so he's going to end up how much in debt to do sports medicine?

>> 60 60,000.

>> Okay. And this is a four-year degree.

>> Um this is uh it's it's becoming eight.

He did four then he got he got his masters like >> Oh, so he's getting a PhD in sports medicine.

>> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Well, that's not necessary, >> okay, in that field. So, the answer but but the problem is you cannot extrapolate that to is it okay to go to college >> because yes, it's okay to go to college.

College is worth the expense if you pay

cash and study something that's actually usable in the marketplace. The problem was your brother overde it. He got two

more degrees than he needed to function in that in that space >> or at least one more that he could afford. And if he wants to move up, then he gets his master's degree. >> Do not need a PhD in sports medicine to function in the sports medicine space.

>> Yeah. Unless, oh, maybe if if you're going to go work for an NFL team or something, they may want you to have a doctor by your name. But who knows? I don't I don't even know the particulars of that.

But the college is going to give you a range. And when they give you a salary range, those things are skewed by if they're taking numbers from San Francisco and New York to Nebraska, it's all over the place. And so >> don't blame the college. He's got to do his own research and say, "What does it pay in the area that I want to live?" And >> yeah, I wouldn't go to school eight years for a $70,000 job.

I agree. I agree with you, Alejandra. That's not worth it. >> Absolutely not.

>> And uh you can get lots of $70,000 jobs for four-year degrees and lots of $100,000 jobs going to trade school and being a welder. So, if you're just looking at return on investment, the trades are awesome. There's a gap right now in the marketplace and they get paid beautifully. But to say college is completely never worth it is an incorrect not a factual statement either.

Getting a degree in stupidity, left-handed puppetry, or German PA

history, and then thinking you're going to end up with being anything but a barista is ridiculous. And so that's

dumb. But you can't take somebody doing something stupid like that and saying all higher ed is bad. That's just not true. >> No. The data s my my kids are going to go to college. >> Yeah. Mine too. Mine did. Yeah. There you go. That puts us hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

[music] Yeah.

[music]

>> [music]

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## 256. You Can’t Control the Past, But You CAN Control the Path Forward | November 18, 2025


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit [music] Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.88255225 8 825 5225 is the phone number. Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. Tracy starts us off in Dallas, Texas. Tracy, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, so I got my bachelor's degree

and my mom kind of handled all the

finances in the house growing up. So, I knew I had student loans eventually coming out of college, but she kind of handled all that. And I guess my question in that is, is it ever, I

guess, an okay choice to just choose to default on student loans when they just become very overwhelming?

>> Um, no. If you were 88 and on death's

door, I might say yes if you had no money. But you sound young and it seems like there's a lot of life ahead of you to try to make this happen. So tell us tell us what's h what has you feeling this hopeless?

Um, so when I graduated, um, and once I

kind of finally saw that number after a while, um, my student loans end up being

a little bit under $140,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, they had been my mom refinanced and

reconsolidated them, so it's a private student loan, too.

>> Good. though it um it uh it just feels

like it just feels like they're never

really going to get paid off. I paid it down to 106 at this point.

>> Uhhuh. >> Um but it just it's just very draining.

Like it just feels very overwhelming.

>> Um >> how long has it taken you to get it from 140 to 106?

>> So I graduated in 2016. Um so about that

long. Probably about almost 10 years now. >> Okay. What are you earning and what kind of work do you do?

>> Um, so I'm a teacher. Uh, I think I'm making around 62,000 a year right now.

>> Um, my husband's the same. And so

>> I guess just between our income and

other debts and having a new baby, everything >> Okay. >> just feels like all at once. >> It is a lot. But did So you're both making 62 a piece?

>> Yes. >> That's great. That's fabulous news. Um, and what other types of debt do you have? What other debt do you have?

>> So, we have my husband's car that we're still paying off. Um, we have his student loans, which they're not private and they're much less than mine.

>> How much? Um, >> tell me the amount of the car and his loans. >> I think he still has 19ish left on the car. um his student loans are around 30,000 and then we kind of have a house

and so that's also >> Tell me about the kind of house.

>> So we live in a tiny house on wheels.

>> Oh, tiny. I thought you said we kind of have a house. >> Yeah, I did. I did. But yeah, >> but it's just tiny. [laughter] >> Okay, got it. >> Not laughing at your house laughing at me not hearing well. Okay, >> cool. [snorts] >> No, that's okay. So we we did do that to cut costs which um which it did which is

good but that's um I think we still owe about 115 as well. Yeah. >> Okay. What's the mortgage on that?

>> Uh we pay about well on that because it's through an actual like bank lender.

So it is kind of a mortgage. Um so that a month is a thousand but then we also have uh land rent the land owner.

>> And where's the land? Uh 700 a month.

>> Oh gosh, that's a lot of money for a tiny house. I feel like that's almost a real mortgage. >> Yeah. >> Um okay, we'll talk about the tiny house later. Um can I'm looking at this and I

I feel like part of the issue is and I

don't know, but it sounds like you're going in the wrong order on the debt >> because you're starting with the it sounds like the the private loan is one big loan. Is that right?

>> Yes. >> So there's your first problem. Um >> we have found that there's there's generally two main ways that people tackle debt. One is they uh list them

smallest to largest like we suggest not not by interest rate, not by payment, just the the full debt itself, smallest to largest. And other ways are by

interest rate or whichever one you feel the worst about. All those other ways don't work. We find that people get tired like you have and they don't see it through till the end. So, the method that Ken and I are going to explain is the method that we have found and has been proven to work over time.

>> Okay. So, I'm just setting it up for you to know that this works. So, what you need to do is go through and list these all smallest. So, it sounds like probably the smallest debt is going to be one of your one of your husband's federal student loans, >> right? >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And then when we do that, we can free up that money quickly. You pay off a $3,000 debt, it frees up a little bit of money. you pay off another $6,000 debt, it frees up a little bit of money, right?

And then we can take all that and throw it at the next smallest debt. So that's how we gain momentum on this. Um >> Okay. >> And that's what I would suggest you to do. The $19,000 car, do you know what

it's worth?

>> I do not. It's probably It's still

probably somewhere around there. Somewhere in the 20s. It's a 2019 model.

So >> what's the payment on it?

>> I think it's somewhere around 400. I would love if you guys could get that $400 back in your budget. Do you guys happen to teach at the same school?

>> No. >> Okay. Do you are you in the same district?

>> No. This is very large.

>> Okay. Yeah. I'm trying to think of a way that it could be feasible for you to become a onecar family for a short season. I want to jump in on something that you mentioned at the top of the call and we just kind of glossed right over it and that is that your mom, if I heard you correctly, your mom took out these loans in your name and you didn't know about it.

>> I I feel like I knew she was taking out loans, but I didn't know what that kind of total price was going to end up being. >> Okay.

um find out the number or find out I find out I had loans >> number the number >> um in 2020.

>> Okay. >> And you graduated in 16, right?

>> 16. So four years in you find out the full number. And is is mom uh helping

you out with this? Was that part of the agreement or was it just a parent plus?

Tell me a little bit more about this.

>> Um I'm not I'm not sure if it was parent plus. Um, I I know my parents didn't get

their bachelor's degree, so I know they really wanted me to get mine. Um, which is fine. >> Um, but

so I don't know what type of >> Okay. Are they helping out?

>> Was there ever any agreement? Tell me more about this. Something about this just doesn't feel right to me.

>> Yeah, they were helping out for a while.

Um, 2020 happened because that's I that's kind of when they stopped. That's when I got that's when I got the login.

like my mom sent me the login to to the

platform to log in and view it and kind of at that point it was kind of one of those like launch situations like this is yours now, >> right? >> Um you know >> and up until that point had she been making the payments or had they just been sitting acrewing >> late payments and whatnot? She she was she was um I guess kind of splitting them like she would take some money from

my paycheck and kind of lump it into whatever they were helping pay for at the time. >> Some money from your paycheck. How was she getting your paycheck?

>> Um I think my bank account I think was

still lumped into when I was like 16 and you could have like you know the parent kind of over >> Got you. But you have your own bank account now. >> Yeah. All right.

So Jade, wrap it up here. I wanted to dig into that, but tell >> uh I would love if you guys could look into selling this vehicle. Um it's not on fire, but if you can, that's $400 back in your pocket. You got to do the debt snowball, which is what I talked about.

Not only is it a budgeting app, budgeting app, but it's going to give you the next right step. Since we only had a few minutes with you, the budgeting app is going to take you the

next steps further. It's like having Ken and I in your pocket.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

[music] >> Let's go to Emily now in Los Angeles.

Emily, how can we help?

>> Yes, I was calling I think looking for some advice. Um, our family was in a major car accident and we have um quite

a bit of medical um needs and we own our

own business and my husband also works full-time outside of our business. Um, through our medical journey, I was put

on medical leave, meaning I'm not supposed to be working due to a brain injury. >> Um, that turned into like a a more

complications. So um we are losing my

income from the business and it's making it very difficult to operate the business. >> Um we've tried consolidating debt. Um we've paid off a chunk of debt. We um

are just trying to do everything that we we know either from baby steps or or just like rewriting budgets. But um it's

taking quite a long time um because we can't pursue settlement from our accident until our injuries are a little more um progressed where they can accurately say like this is >> this is Yep. And so um when did we have gotten to the >> we've been dealing with this um for over a year now. And um >> tell me about the um let me let me walk you through some numbers here so we can help. Uh, tell me tell me about the business, the one that you own, and then what role do you play?

So, two-part question there.

employee. Um, what's

uh we manufactured um organic um like

skincare, candles, things like that.

>> So, it's just it's just you and the and the hubs. You guys are the only two. And it's primarily you or is he putting in hours as well?

Uh it's prim it was primarily me. Um and

then we had family and friends that would help obviously right after the accident and things. Okay. Um we lost our storefront and that was um a major

uh revenue stream. It was our biggest revenue stream.

>> Give me an idea what your revenue was.

>> Uh for the whole business it was pushing 350K and growing at over 20% a year.

>> Good for you. And what were you paying yourself? It was >> um I was averaging 6 to 7K a month um

personally paying myself and then um we were working on actively paying off debts um on good months.

>> Well, that's what I want to ask. How much of that debt how much of that debt was on the business?

The business currently has um about 250k

in debt from from losing the storefront

and our we were wholesaling to over 1100

retailers across the world.

>> Wow. >> And we had to halt that as well.

>> You were you were you were really cooking with grease, weren't you?

>> Oh, we had some really big dreams um right before this accident happened and the accident took um >> Yeah. I'm so sorry. >> Took a lot of that away. So, it's okay.

I'm working through that, but >> I understand. So, we're I'm going to keep walking through some numbers with you so Jade and I can dive in. Okay. So, we have 250,000 in debt on the business.

Uh what personal debt do you guys have?

Um, we currently still have um 80 I

think it's 89,000 in debt and that includes um that includes personal loan

we took out to help consolidate all of our credit cards, student loans, um

tires. I mean, that's everything but our cars. >> And you still have debts on cars, too?

>> We do. Um my husband's truck, >> give us the numbers. >> 19K left on it. 19K on a truck. What else? >> Yep. And then my car has 52K. But the

problem with my car is it was in the accident and its value has the car was 6

weeks old when it was hit and it didn't total by like pennies basically. They

repaired it, but it's worth has dropped.

We tried to get out of it after the accident and the worth it was like worth less than 20K last Christmas. Bless you.

>> And we can't do anything about that while our settlement still plays out because that's part of the settlement.

So, we can't get >> Got it. Got it. Got to try to help you here. So, I'm trying to consolidate a lot of details here.

>> Uh, and so your husband's income is what?

>> Um, 90K.

>> Okay. And you have no income coming in at all. Correct.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Um, all right, Jade, what else do

we need to know here? We're trying to get a picture here of >> I do I will say I do have two more months saved for like I have money in the bank to like that was to pay myself to get us through um to the end of

January. So >> what do you have in the bank?

>> Um I've got 10k left to pay myself out

of. Um this month is taken care of. So it's 5k for December and 5k for January.

So, >> so are you unable are you unable to pay

uh for your four walls plus all this debt on just your husband's salary?

>> Correct. We did already downsize our house. Um we already moved and took care of a massive expense that way. Um

>> how much short are you? So, how much income are you guys short every month?

>> Well, uh 5600. Um

>> 5600. Help us get to that.

How how is it 56?

>> That's all our debt. My husband's income would cover our housing, living expenses, um the vehicles, >> the personal debt.

>> The personal debt. Yep. >> So, how much inventory?

>> You I got to believe you've got a bunch of inventory that needs to be sold off.

What's that one? What's the value of that? >> I do. I think I have over I think I have a good $100,000 in inventory that could be produced and sold or could be just sold. >> And so when you were selling, was it an online storefront or it was like brick and mortar?

>> It we were brick and mortar up until um just a few months ago. The brick and mortar was um over 220k in sales a year.

>> Got it. And you you sold that or you just lost the lease?

Um, we had to close the store because I couldn't I couldn't run it anymore and the debt had already piled on that it didn't make sense to hire someone.

>> Understand? But was it a lease or was it a place that you guys owned?

>> Nope. We did not a lease. We're out of the lease. >> My question is, is there a way that online you can start to sell off some of

this inventory so that you can >> We're trying.

>> What are you running into? What are you running into?

>> It's just slow. We were online was our slowest revenue stream in the past and it's just getting like um

>> okay >> our inerson >> let me ask a really let me ask a dumb question because it's really important >> this inventory and Jade rightfully so is locked in on this is your best chance to get some relief here while we're waiting on settlements and all the things >> if you were crushing it to the tune that I'm hearing and and I believe you in Los Angeles you had a loyal customer base is

My guess, true or false?

>> Yes. >> And and I'm guessing that they found out some form in some form or fashion what happened to you. Is that true or false?

>> Yes. >> Okay. I'm wondering here, Jade, come on

alongside of me. How do we reach out to that group of people and go, "Hey, hey y'all, this is my situation right now." >> Or, >> uh, you all believed in this product.

it would help us to move this product and because it's going towards getting out of this business until I get healthy because I got to believe you're coming back one day >> or even those last retailers that you were in their stores. Can we Is there a way I mean obviously you're continuing

to maintain the business is not an option but getting those last purchase orders so that we can sell off this LA cuz you said you were in a number of different retailers. How can we >> tap them? I send weekly emails to all of the retailers. We started doing promotions and even lowering prices on goods. Um doing online marketing, which

we've kind of stepped up the game that caused the retailers to not want to continue to purchase because I feel like those are two different issues. We've got the hey, we got an accident.

>> We had a Let me finish this.

>> Six month pause. Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

>> I just want to get clear on this. It was it accident or was business already starting to dwindle is what I'm trying to understand. >> No. No, business is at the highest it was when we were in the accident. I had to close our wholesale portal for six months um immediately because of how bad like the injuries were.

>> So those those lines are dried up.

>> They a lot of them our most loyal storefronts have come back, but a lot of them it's it's they need goods and then they just move on to the next because they're filling their store. So, what what this is going to look like if your husband is well, um this has got to be his side hustle is figuring out how to

sell cuz this is $100,000 in your garage basically. How to sell this because that's going to break you free from this business debt. Um otherwise, you're going to continue to go into credit card debt floating the difference. We can't do that.

>> [music]

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All right, Lauren is up next in Minneapolis. Lauren, how can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm good. How are you? >> Good. What's going on?

>> Um, so back in July, my little brother backed into my car. >> Oh boy. >> Um, and my husband and I had to pay out of pocket. >> Um, not too much money. It was just our deductible, but um it's been, you know, about 6 months and he hasn't made any effort to pay anything. And so I would

just like some advice on what to do if he doesn't start paying soon. >> How old is he?

>> He's 22. >> Does he have a job?

>> Um no, but he has a good income, which is in We have an interesting financial situation. Um and he's got a great income. He just bought a new house. It was like pretty expensive and he just lives there by himself.

ilities.

>> Um, we get per cap. So, we get like

Native American per cap basically.

>> Got it. And what was your deductible that you paid?

>> 2,000 bucks. >> So, he owes you 2K. >> To me, that's not like a lot. Yeah.

>> So, what does he say when you go to him and you're like, you know, junior, I need this 2,000. What does he say?

Well, he's been kind of just like dodging it. When we when it first happened, we said something and I was just like, you know, you got to pay this >> and he was like, well, I'm not going to pay more than $2,000. He actually owes like $6,000 because of all the damage.

He owes me $2,000.

>> No, no, no. Help us understand that. If the damage was $6,000, why does he only owe you two? >> He backed into your car. >> The deductible. He owes me two. He owes the insurance company six.

>> Okay. And is he paying the insurance?

>> He would pay the six. No, he would pay the six to the insurance and they would give me two from that six deductible.

>> So, he doesn't owe you. He owes the insurance company.

>> Yeah. Technically, yeah. And then we would get the $2,000 from the insurance company once he pays it. >> Well, what are they doing? What are they doing to collect on this? >> Um, just trying to collect it. You know, they there's not like a lot that they can do. They just basically like keep reaching out. >> But insurance has to pay you regardless.

Like that's your insurance and you filed it. No.

>> Yeah. Apparently, we have to wait till he pays it.

>> I don't I don't none of this makes any This entire call makes no sense to me.

But let's stay on the insurance piece. I

when was the last time you talked to your the per somebody from your insurance company >> who got today and they told you we can't

do your payout until your brother pays his portion.

>> Yeah, basically they can't pay us anything because it's his job to pay

that. >> What type of policy is this?

>> Progressive.

>> Oh, now we're naming names. There we go.

Um, I don't understand what you hoped

for calling us on the brother not paying you. I mean, if I had a relationship with him, um, I would be making his life miserable. And at some point, your husband needs to probably roll up to the house and go, "Hey, punk, >> what's the problem? Your sister is my

wife, >> and you're not manning up, taking care of business while you sit here and play video games in your new house.

>> I mean, I I'm not talking about threatening physical violence, but I mean, it feels like this is pretty easily handled in a family situation.

>> I can't give you any advice on that.

>> Very easy to handle at all. >> What's that?

>> It hasn't been very easy to handle at all. I mean, we've asked him for it. He's not really making any efforts. There's not like anything that I can do to say like, "Hey, I need you to pay this." >> Did you file? We >> were just talking, my husband and I. >> Did you file through his insurance and not yours?

>> He doesn't have insurance.

He didn't have insurance when he backed into my car. >> Okay. So, he hits you and you call your insurance company up and go, "Hey, my bro backed into my car and they took over." Um, >> do you not have collision?

Um, I don't I think I do, but it's like

my deductible was too like I still have to pay a little bit out of pocket. It was a It was higher than I >> If you don't have collision, then that means your insurance has no coverage to pay for your car. And that would mean the only option is waiting for the other driver's insurance.

>> Did pay for some of it.

>> Ah, that might have been some of it.

>> It might have been based on the way the nature of how it happened. Um, >> okay. Do you have a relationship with your brother or is it a non-existent relationship?

>> Um, it's kind of I mean like I see him

sometimes. I was trying not to be like too pushy about it. So, you know, I still see him and stuff, but >> are your parents in the picture?

>> Best relationship.

>> Yeah.

>> I I I don't know how this is. I mentioned to my my mom today like, "Hey, you know, if he doesn't start paying, like we're kind of just not going to be like doing stuff with him. Like I'm not going to >> Yeah. I don't think that's a real big threat to this guy.

I I would get the parents involved. This is a family meeting at best. I I don't know how else you get the money out. >> Yeah.

No, that my mom was not She's not trying to step in like that at all.

>> It's going to break it up whether if he doesn't pay it. It's going to break it up. Let me explain the insurance part for you so that you can at least understand what's going on is one of four things is going on. You told me number one, if you tried to file through his insurance, you told me that's not the case because he doesn't have insurance.

Number two, I don't think you have full collision insurance because you they're not paying. And number three, my guess is if you do have collision, since you did not go through his insurance, it says that sometimes if you do have collision, but the person who hit you doesn't, they're waiting for that insurance to pay them. And so that's the that could possibly the be the problem there.

calling up my brother. I have an older brother and a younger brother. I'd be calling up my younger brother today and I'd be like, "You need to make this right." What type of person are you?

>> Like you >> I thought you were a person of integrity and character and I'd like to see that demonstrated. >> That's what I'd be saying as the older sister. And >> if he didn't, I would be sure to tell him. I'd be like, "Man, I'm really disappointed that this is the way you chose to handle this. You and I both know this is not right." >> Yeah. I've been sitting here, Lauren, >> thinking what?

>> Well, I've been thinking, "What would Dave say?" And I can imagine how that would go. >> And I'm not going to say that because I'm not Dave. And then I'm going, well, what what would I do, Jade?

>> Oh, I'd act a fool. >> So, Lauren, I'm g tell you what I would do. I would do two things. Uh, one,

first gear would be uh calling, texting,

showing up at his house once a day.

>> Oh, >> we're going to just be obnoxious. We're not violent. >> We're not threatening. >> Just getting on his nerves. >> We're obnoxious, you know, like with some justification.

>> And Gear two, if that doesn't work, cuz I don't think that's going to work right away. Although, you'd be surprised. You just keep showing up and the guy's like, he's like, "Oh, blowing up the line." [snorts] >> The second thing I might do is if that doesn't work, I'm finding a way to get in that house. >> Mhm.

>> And um or I'm knocking on the door one night. He opens the door and I walk in and I go, >> you're sitting in the shadow. >> No, no. I start walking around.

I want him to open the door and let me in. And I'm going to start walking around the house and I'm going to start pulling stuff into the living room >> and I want him to go, "What are you doing?" And I'm going, "I'm adding up $6,000 worth of your stuff." A >> and I'm going to sell it because here's the deal. You and I both know you owe me $6,000.

>> So this is so stupid.

>> Mhm. >> That I have no other choice.

>> Go in his closet. >> Yeah. >> And so if this doesn't work now, I'm going to sue you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> But I I I I'm sitting there going, realistically, what would I do? And I think it's the obnoxious treatment first. >> Yeah. And then I'm literally going to go in and go, I just found a toaster that's worth 150 bucks. It's pretty new. You like this? I'm selling that tonight.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm going to take $6,000 worth of stuff out of here tonight. >> Mhm. Mhm. >> If you call the cops, that's great >> cuz they need to come get you. >> Cuz I would love the cops to know that you're stealing $6,000.

>> I mean, I just think you got to be so difficult that he goes, "This isn't worth it." >> Yeah. >> I I I don't know. >> I don't mind this behavior. >> Lauren, what do you think of that? That's all I got. I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to meet you where you showed up today.

>> No, that's okay. I just I just wanted advice. And >> you got to you got to make it worth his while to pay you.

>> Mhm. >> In other words, he's going, "My life gets better the minute I stroke a $6,000 check." Which, by the way, he probably doesn't have. >> Yeah. I don't think he I truly don't think he has the money. >> I don't either. >> Um, >> but I bet you he's got some stuff in that new house. [laughter] >> Throw a yard sale in his driveway.

>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yes.

>> Oh gosh, what a mess.

>> I can't I cannot can imagine treating a

family member, my flesh and blood, somebody I love that way. >> I know. >> It's just >> I'm sorry that you're going through that. That that in and of itself is disappointing that a family member would do you dirty like that.

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Or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. If I had time and I was really cranky today, I would go on a rant about uh the pre Black Friday

deals. Oh, I would love to hear you go on a rant, King Coleman. >> We've jumped the shark as a culture.

Maybe later. I don't understand. Next.

It's going to be pre-Easter deal. >> Did you say we jumped the shark?

>> Yeah. You've never heard that phrase? No. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'll explain that one to you. >> I need more. >> I I get a little irritated with And everybody's doing it now. Ramsay's doing it. We're all doing it. >> I know. We got to do it.

>> It takes away the cache of the >> I just think call it a really great deal. >> Yeah, >> cuz it ain't Black Friday. [laughter] >> It's not even Thanksgiving. It was just October. >> There we go, folks. That's a whole another show. [laughter] >> Oz99. Still a good price.

>> It's still a good deal. Ramseyolutions.com/store no matter when it is. Oz is on the line in Miami. Oz, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, how are you? Happy Monday.

>> Happy Monday. >> Whatever day it is. >> Whatever day it is, it's right. Uh, so essentially, uh, my wife and I about two years ago, uh, we bought a rental property, uh, town home in Tampa, Florida, right? We reside in Miami, Florida. We're both born and raised here. Um, right now, every month, the

payment that the tenants are sending us is around $2,400, right? But the monthly mortgage that we pay is $2,800.

So, I just kind of wanted your advice on that just because the way that we were thinking of keeping the home, we're not we're in between, right? Whether selling it or we're keeping it just because of long-term equity in the future. But >> well, let me ask a quick question. How did we get okay with you having a $2,800

mortgage on it, but only charging 2400?

>> So, it was a brand new construction, right? And so, the first year you pay taxes on the land. Second year, you pay taxes on the, you know, the first full

year of the property being built, right?

So, then the taxes shot up from, I think it was around, they shot up about,

geez, like $4,800 around last year. This was last year. >> How come you didn't raise the rent? >> Yes. >> So, we have a realtor that we're working with over there, right? The realtor recommended because of the properties around in the community to lower the rent because the first year was essentially 2500.

>> So, then it it all kind of made sense at that point. We were doing out of pocket 50 bucks a month, right? Then the second year came around with the tenants and then the the realtor was saying to lower the rent just because all the properties around the rent went down. So then that's when the property taxes shot up to 5,200 bucks, 5,300 bucks.

Then that's when we went negative 400 something a month. >> All right.

We got into this house. Well, we moved over there cuz we like the place and then work called me back into the office in Miami and >> and that's it. That's the That's what I want to stop on. You did not buy this house as a rental property.

You did not say, you know what, let's get into the rental game. Let's get into the landlord business. Let's go pick the perfect property for us to do that. You didn't say that.

>> You defaulted to this >> because it was like, well, we're moving. I guess we'll just kind of keep it. Do you see why that's not a great plan for real estate? Correct.

Correct. Yeah.

>> So, if you sell it now, are you underwater or can you make money?

>> I will make about 15K on it.

>> I'd jump on it because I just read an article couple days ago. Tampa is one of the worst real estate markets in the country. Prices are dropping.

>> Yeah. Big time. It's seen, you know.

>> So, I would get out now. Do you agree with that, partner? I'd take the 15 and be happy. Indeed, >> because this is a headache gone and you walk away with no financial loss and you get to you know live and tell about it.

>> Yeah. The longer you wait that money could dwindle. So I would definitely >> Yeah. Yeah.

And we actually just uh you know the worst part of the timing is we just not the worst part but we just renewed the lease with the tenants. So we got you know 11 months to go like that. But >> okay, >> obviously, you know, >> with, you know, contingent upon the tenants moving out or so on and so on and so forth, you know, we can potentially sell the house. And, you know, I was just talking to my wife about it and we're young, right?

>> Good. >> We have we have seven months worth of savings, you know. Um, there is a a truck that I want to get rid of cuz that's like 580 bucks a month that I just don't need right now, right?

>> Uh, we make a really decent living for living in Miami. Um, >> and I just that house is kind of causing not headache in the marriage or anything like that, just our sense of peace for us, right? >> Yeah. >> It's uh going negative every month. And that's Yeah. That's 400 not including CDD fees, garbage men fees, ADT security. >> So you were just losing money hand over fist. >> Hand over fist. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Negative730 is the exact amount every month. >> How long have you had this property and been renting it?

>> We were there. I've been we had it we've had it so far three years we lived in it 10 months. >> So you've been you've been losing $730 a

month for three years give >> $730 the last fiscal year the last 12

months. >> Oh my gosh. >> This last uh Yeah. For 2025.

>> I mean do you see where there's no profit there because that you're only going to make 15,000 for the sale. This this type of math you've got to be doing to understand what you're in the business for. Are you in it for you know making long haul on the property? Are you trying to make something off the rents?

There would just there just wasn't a plan here. When you failed a plan, you plan to fail. >> And I would roll my sleeves up with my realtor, uh, if I were you, >> and I would walk this whole lease thing out. 11 months.

I'm just because I'm going to tell you something. The market in Tampa is going down. I don't know what it's going to look like 6 months from now or a year from now, but you got 11 months. And so, I would want the full picture of what every option then, can we be ready?

And then what do we have to do if we have no options, Jade, and 11 months rolls around. What's our strategy? So, I would get in control. So, we're going to list this thing >> at eight months, >> you know, just don't let this thing happen to you happen to >> uh and then one quick question because I want to get it from a source, a Florida resident.

>> What is the status of the no property tax legislation or idea by Dantis?

does that stand?

>> So, that is still TBD. I know there's been a lot of hype around Deantis wanting to go ahead and eliminate property taxes, but a lot of folks are saying like how are they going to be able to fund schools?

>> So, it's not active, right? You know, I get all that, but I I was just wanting to know where is it active legislation or is it just him throwing it out there?

>> Uh, I mean, him throwing it out there.

There they are in the process of it, though. >> It's not active yet. Gotcha. Okay. >> Yeah, it's not active yet, but a decision will be made soon. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah. >> Well, listen, man. I wish we wish we had better news for you. Um, I would see what your options are in that contract.

Read the fine print.

>> See what your options are. If you have no options, have a game plan so that hopefully we move this house >> pretty quickly um upon being able to

sell it uh based on the the lease situation there because you just don't want to be stuck with that. And Jade, this is a great review. We have a lot of new people coming in all the time. This is a great way to kind of do a review.

Why do we tell people this story being example a um to not be long-term

landlords? I mean, excuse me, long distance. >> Long distance. Well, I feel like the first part is what we kind of highlighted, which is a lot of people get into that long-distance landlord game not by uh thoughtful choice of this

is where I'd like to buy a property and be a renter. It's I used to live here, I got a job, I'm moving, or maybe you're in the military and you're hopping around. So, it's just kind of like this default. Well, this seems convenient and then you're you're far away.

It's a pain in the butt if the person is not, you know, paying. You're you know, in this case, he wasn't I mean, he was almost a state away. Tampa to Miami may as well be a state away. But it's very hard to manage things from long distance.

And you did not pick a property based on mathematics, based on doing any sort of spread. You just >> kind of ended up that way. And nine times out of 10, those are the ones where they're causing the most amount of stress.

they're not covering it. And so it's just got to let it go. Simplify a simple a simple life, Ken. >> Yeah. And low risk, right? Now, you know, you talk about the Florida real estate market. You know, it got overheated. >> It sure did. >> Before you buy something, you should be paying attention, talking to those grizzled real estate veterans who've been grizzled. >> They've been around. They they may not look grizzled, but they got experience.

in in Florida, they're sunbeaten.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. But they know. They've been around.

>> They've seen real estate cycles. You got to know this stuff so that you don't you don't put yourself in a high-risisk situation cuz a lot of people go, "Well, I got the house. Let me just rent it now. I've just made my portfolio a reality." And it's just not that simple.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman.

Glad you're with us. Isabelle is joining us now from Wisconsin. Isabelle, how are you today and how can we help?

>> I'm doing all right today. Thank you for asking. Good. Um, I I guess I have a

weird situation. I make $20,000 a year

and I work at a bar and restaurant. My

boyfriend and I, well, he owns it, but

uh my rent is connected to that salary

that I make. My vehicle is connected to that salary that I make. I feel like I'm kind of a hostage in this situation.

>> Sweetheart, I'm glad you said it so I didn't have to. This sounds like scary

manipulation.

$20,000, first of all, is below the poverty line.

Let's start there. That's Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. >> And then after your rent is coming out

of that and after your car payment is coming out of that. Is that right? He's paying for those two things.

>> He bought my car and uh I drive it. He

maintains it within reason. I suppose I

still have to do like the major stuff on it. >> What kind of car did he buy you?

>> It's a 2014 Honda CRV. So, not not, you

know, not a real luxury item here.

>> How much did he spend on it? >> Expect that. >> No, I know. I'm just trying to do the math here. How much did he spend for that? >> He bought it. He bought it for $8,000.

>> Exactly. So, he bought you an $8,000 car. That comes out of the $20,000. So, he goes, "Now all I have to do is pay her 12." >> No. Um I I still make my my salary is

20,000. He bought me the car and um my

rent is kind of included without having to pay for that salary of $20,000 a year. >> Okay. The way you worded it, I thought it was coming out of the 20. So, you're making 20 period. >> But why? >> That's it. >> Why are you Why would you stay How old are you? >> I'm 28. >> Why would you stay here in December?

>> What's causing you to stay at a job that's paying you 20,000? That's not a living wage.

Uh, I feel like I'm barely making it by.

I >> Yes, but what's causing you to stay there? >> Of course, you're barely making it by, but what's causing you to stay there and not go for another job? Cuz you could, my point is, you could go to Target and make more >> or Walmart. >> I don't have a Target around me. Uh, >> uh, >> oh, now Isabelle, don't start making excuses.

Answer the question. What is keeping you Well, let me ask a back another backstory question. Are you living with him? >> Sure. Yes. >> Okay. >> Uh >> Okay. >> Yeah, we we've been dating for three years. >> Okay. When did the bar When did the

>> Okay, hold on. When did the bar job

happen? When did you start working for him?

>> About four and a half years ago.

>> What were you doing before that for work? I've I've always been a kitchen

person and I now I'm kitchen manager and I

>> for his for his bar.

>> And is his bar is it struggling? Is he just scraping by as well or is it doing okay? Is it doing well? What do you know? >> Uh he makes $7,000 in a weekend.

>> Okay. >> We we don't talk about finances to be honest. >> Okay. And does he pay for all of your he

pays for everything except for a little bit of spending money that you have from the 20? Is he covering all your bills or are you covering other things?

>> No, I'm covering other things. I'm in debt $3,500 because I was trying to help my mom

because she was a single mother.

>> Okay. >> And uh it's complicated but

>> Okay. Well, your whole situation is complicated. How old is he?

Uh, he just turned 40.

>> I had a sense of that.

>> I'm not I'm not a relationship expert, nor am I going to try one. But I think this is a manipulative relationship at best. >> And I think that you think you can't do any better. You've been making $20,000 a year for four and a half years.

I'm guessing >> three. >> For three years. >> What would happen if I Tell me honestly what would happen if today you said to him, "Hey, I'm not going to work at the bar anymore. I'm not making enough money.

I found another job and I'm going to take that job instead. What would happen? >> Well, we've had that talk before and he would kick me out and I would no longer work there and I would have to find another job. >> Okay, so there it is.

>> Yeah, we got a weird >> This is that right there, Isabelle.

knew that that was the answer and I just wanted you to say it. Do you think that you can stay with somebody like that that doesn't want you to get ahead >> and and be able to stand on your own two feet? Do you think it's healthy or safe for you to be with someone like that?

>> I mean, not entirely. Um, I guess what I

really am trying to do is work my way out of my debt. And >> but how can you? He won't let you earn any money. He's controlling you.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Now, here's the answer, Isabelle.

Here's the answer. The only way you work your out way you're out of debt and stay in this abusive relationship, because that's what this is, >> 100%.

um is you're working a part-time job

>> based on what you've told us. >> No, I I don't work a part-time job. On salary, I'm I'm 90 hours a week.

>> It doesn't matter. You're working 90 hours a week to make $20,000 a week.

>> That's what I'm saying, Isabelle. I'm trying to help you understand there is no way to work out of this. And and Jade and I and anybody on the Ramsy Show is going to tell you there's always a way to work yourself out of it, but there's no way to work yourself out of it in this situation where you're working 90 hours a week. You are an indentured servant. Look it up.

That's what this guy's got you turned into. You're basically working for your livelihood. Meaning, uh, he's just going to give me rent. He got me the $8,000 car. He's got you underneath his thumb.

>> And there's no way for you to get out of this other than you break up with this guy. You have to. >> And you go work. You go get a good job and you start over. >> Well, I I want to I want to flip the script on you in a couple of ways. What did you think we were going to tell you if if if because you said, "You know what? I really need something. I'm going to call these folks on the radio." What were you hoping we might tell you?

>> I guess I really didn't know.

>> Yeah.

>> We're on your side. >> I've been thinking it for a while and uh

I I guess I maybe just needed some reassur reassurance, >> something. >> Listen, I'm I'mma tell you right now. Um

we we love you. We do. Uh we want the

best for you. You can't stay with this guy. >> No, >> you cannot. He's not going to let you get ahead. He's controlling you and it's tough because he's 40 and you're 28 and you've been with him for 3 years and it seems like he holds all the power and all the cards because right now he does.

But that doesn't mean that you can't go out and get yourself a job and get get ahead. I think that this it's like you're under a glass. >> I gota I got to say this, Isabelle, you you've been with him four and a half years. Did I hear that right?

Well, I've been working with him four and a half, but we've been dating for three. I'm sorry. But that puts you at about 25 years of age and you've had to help your mom. You went into debt three grand to help your mom because she's a single mom. And my guess there's this abuse that runs in your past >> and I think you're terrified of becoming your mom. So, this guy at 40 years of age, as manipulative as he is, um he

represents safety for you. That's what I think's going on. And I'm going to recommend that you >> maybe Yeah. No, I it it's exactly what's

going on. And I I want you to go to some friends and family that that love you

and ask them if you can stay with them.

>> You get yourself a new job. Let's get on our feet financially. Go see a therapist. That's your homework assignment. But I think you got to you got to break up with this guy or I need to take a break. And you need to see yourself. You don't have to do a full breakup, but take a break. Let's let's leave. Go spend some time somewhere else and and maybe find a job. not maybe find a job where you can make some money.

Let's see what life feels like on the other side of this cuz I think you've gotten pulled down. And if you've got any money that you can get a therapist with, go see a therapist and get a real professional opinion on this.

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Hey folks, if you're enjoying the show and it's helping you and you think it'll help others, would you help us help them? And you do that by liking, subscribing, following, sharing, all of the buttons. You know how they are. And uh so whether that's podcast, YouTube, however, we'd love for you to share the show and that helps us spread the good word. Alice is up in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Alice, how can we help you today?

>> Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. My question is, does it make more

sense to contribute money to a spousal

Roth IRA or continue doing what I'm

doing, which is currently setting money aside uh in an emergency fund and other

expected expenses such as vacation, maybe a future car purchase, etc. My

husband's going to continue working for about another 10 months to 12 months.

>> Okay. So, this is in this is you planning for retirement.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, how old are you guys?

>> I'm 65. My husband is 64. I retired in

2015 to take care of my mother and then

I took care of my sister who had early onset >> Alzheimer's. >> And so I have been out of the workforce for quite a while.

>> Okay. And so um tell me what you guys have so far in

retirement.

Um together we have about 1.5 million

um in 401ks, 403bs, Roth and my husband

has a PSP. >> Okay. And is there anything else? Tell me about your other assets. Do you own your own home? Do you still have a payment? Tell me about that.

>> Our home is paid off. Our vehicles are paid off. My car is a 2012

>> and I don't have to have a brand new car. That's not my thing. I'd rather not have a payment, but I know that I might have to purchase a car in the future.

So, that's one of the things that I plan on setting money aside for as well.

>> Okay. >> And otherwise, we have minimal credit card debt, and we pay groceries,

utilities, cable, internet, our phones,

and that's pretty much it.

>> Okay, got it. Um, what's the homework

worth? What's the home worth? There we Um, in our area probably

about 350,000.

>> Okay, good. Now, what's your husband work? You said he's working 10 10 to 12 more months. What's he earn?

>> He currently earns about 80,000 annually. And so, we've worked really, really hard to pay down debt.

>> And I've been doing the uh spousal um

Roth contributions. and I've currently stopped. I don't always have the money to do that, but my thinking was, does it

make more sense to contribute to the Roth since he's going to be off work um

in about 10 to 12 months when he retires, >> or do I just keep putting money away?

And what I do, and I know this is probably something that you're not going to agree with, but I have little envelopes, in other words, little buckets, and I put money aside uh for an

emergency fund. I currently have 10,500

set aside in the emergency fund.

>> Okay. >> And then um if things get better in

Israel, we that would be kind of our dream vacation is to go to Israel.

>> Okay. And uh so for vacation for that.

>> Okay. I you know I I'm not mad at that.

I'm guessing he's contribute continuing to contribute on his end uh to a Roth

IRA as well. And so the spousal, you're kind of like, do we still need it? Um, I like the idea that you've been saving an emergency fund because you do need some liquid money. We would suggest six months um of liquid money. It's just good to have there so that you're not having to pull, you know, things out of investment for emergencies and things like that. Um, I'm not my my um my

framework on this would be you need to be investing at least 15% of the income.

That's kind of where we sit. if you're investing 15% whether it's in Roth IAS,

spousal IAS, 401ks, wherever you choose,

everything else from there on. Um, yeah, if you want to save up some more for vacation, if you want to have a little, if it makes you feel comfortable to have a little bit more cash money, I'm not upset with that. You guys are doing really, really well. 1.5 million in retirement, a paid for $350,000 home. I

I don't think that you can mess this up at this point with the the couple of thousand dollars that you're talking about here. Yeah, I agree.

>> Question question for you. So, the 1.5

million or so. Um, I felt really comfortable with that, but for the last almost 5 years, things have gotten so much more expensive and I would like to leave a little inheritance for my kids.

>> Um, okay. >> And let me explain that so that you'll understand it. So, you've got 1.5 million here. Let's pretend that the interest on that is about 10 10%. Right?

That's the compounding growth that's occurring. You could pull $150,000 a

year from that and never touch the nest egg essentially. Does that make sense?

Which is more than what your husband earns now. He earns 80,000 a year.

>> Okay? >> So, you'll have more than enough to continue to live. Plus, you both will receive social security, or at least he will. Do you see what I'm saying? So there's definitely there's definitely plenty of wiggle room there. You will have plenty to leave to your heirs or anybody that you know is going to be a beneficiary on this.

>> Another question. So the money that I have in the little buckets um I keep

it's not invested. I keep it at home

>> in envelopes in a safe. And you might get mad at me there, but should I be putting that in a high yield savings account like my emergency be great to do that. >> Now, I'm not going to lie to you. I keep c I have cash. I like having cash that I can get to. Uh and I also keep my main

emergency fund in a high yield savings account. But that's just cuz I'm a real Ken. You don't keep any cash in the house? >> Oh, okay. You don't keep any cash in a safe?

>> Okay.

>> You're asking. >> I'm just saying I I like to be ready.

Like I got it. I'm like on Jason Bourne.

I've got the passports AND THE CASH RIGHT THERE. I'M READY to go.

>> I just know there's ain't much you can do about it. You have all that cash and the zombies will still get you, you [laughter] know.

>> Oh, my worry about it.

>> My point is Alice, if you know I I the 10,000 I would definitely put that in a high yield savings. If it makes you feel better to have a little bit of cash on hand in the house, that's totally fine as well. The other thing is like people come knock on my house, try to take stuff and go, "You're welcome to my shoes." >> Uh there's a decent amount of money there. [laughter] >> But me, too. >> There's no I just said it live on radio or >> what's that?

>> I just said it live on radio.

>> That's all right. They don't have your address. >> It's okay. We haven't told them who you are. [laughter] You're going to be okay.

But yeah, the answer is the answer is yes. You your money is safe. I feel it's very safe. Put it in u you know a high yield savings. That's the best place.

Why not get the money on that little envelopes? >> Um, you know, and so yeah, that's why we that's why we >> But I love how methodical you are, Alice. I just love how she's just been thoughtful about putting it in the envelope, put it to the side, >> and you guys are going to be fine. And I love how you walked her through the real numbers there.

You know, I think people need to know when you go, what's my number? In other words, what what's the nest egg, the retirement nest egg, where I feel like, and I love the exercise where you walk through and by the way, run the numbers. >> Yes. Run it on a 10%, run it on eight, run it on six, >> run it on four, >> right?

And then all of that is helpful.

>> Run those numbers so you can see what it is you need and you make those adjustments, but you guys are going to be fine. I'm not worried about that at all. >> Uh, but you for real do the whole safe thing. >> Look at my face, Ken Coleman.

>> Okay. Well, I'm not surprised. I'm not surprised. >> I I think that now don't get me wrong.

It's not to it's not a any, you know, uh

I'm not going against the baby steps. I still do all the things that the baby steps say. It's just in addition to I feel good knowing, >> you know, something goes down and you just need to get to this is you never hear me spin out like this, but something goes down and you just need to get to the airport and get out of the country, >> right? >> I'm going to be ready to go.

>> You are ready? Yeah. You've got You've got a little You got a little pack bag in the safe. It's all >> There's no bag.

It's just the documents in order.

Oh man. I just think I'm a person though that when I go out of town, I text my brother and I'm like, "Here's where the will is. Here's where like I I I just prepare in that way." >> Yeah. Well, now our whole family knows that if something were happen to Stacey and I traveling, we we've got a spot for that.

I get that. But in your scenario where you got to get out of town, you realize everyone else is at the is at the airport. The only thing the cash does is is put you at the front of the line for coffee because you're offering more money.

>> Wrong.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right, if if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills next week?

>> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing uh to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

All right, Jade. The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just a world class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. I want you to imagine going on Every Dollar uh after going into your app store, Google Play and you get in there and you spend about 12 to 15 minutes answering specific questions.

>> And then right away >> like you were on the air with us, you get recommendations on where you can save money and it's several thousand dollars. Imagine that.

>> Um and imagine that you got one of us

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You are with it. It is a perfect partner. Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. It will absolutely be a gamecher for you. Ashley is up next in Indianapolis. Ashley, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm a realtor. Um, so my

commission actually goes through an LLC we just set up. But, um, I have a savings account where I've been putting my salary in, but it's been really sloppy this past year. So, I really wanted to kind of get clear. We're on baby step two. Um, so, how should I be

using that salary account? Should I put in like six months and dwindle it down

and replenish it every quarter or should I have a full year salary in there before I started attacking the debt?

>> Oh, I see. Okay. So, are you the only Is

it just you or you said you're married, right?

>> I am married. Yeah. >> Okay. Does your husband work?

>> He does. >> Okay. What is What do you bring in uh a year and what does he bring in per year?

>> So, this year I'm bringing in 130 and

he's bringing in 40.

>> Okay. So, what does it cost on annual B

and we can look at this monthly. Let's let's look at it monthly. What does it cost on a monthly basis to make your household run?

>> 4,000. >> 4,000. Okay. So, what I would be doing is since you know that, it sounds like

you're whenever you get a big lump sum of money, you're throwing it in savings and you're just kind of filtering in your portion of whatever makes the household run every single month. Is that right?

>> Sort of. So, all of my commission goes

into the LLC checking account. And then I put in what I know I need to get paid for the next couple of months, which is $2,000 a month, and that goes into our

personal account. >> Okay. And then you're trying to understand, okay, with the rest of it, can I go ahead and start paying off debt or how much do I need to keep aside?

>> Correct. Yeah. Like, should I should do like six months and then replenish it?

>> Well, how about we come at it >> or if I should do a year? >> What if we come at it a different way?

How about you tell us how much you have in savings in or excuse me in the LLC account right now?

>> Right now we've got 13,000 in total.

>> Okay. >> And uh how much debt do you have and list it out for Jade? Smallest to largest.

>> Cool. So smallest to largest, we've got five in school loans.

>> Okay. >> Seven in a motorcycle.

[laughter] Um 21 in car and then 22 in

credit card. >> Okay. Few more questions about that.

What's that motorcycle worth if if you or he were to sell that today?

>> He rides it an awful lot. So, I don't know. It might be worth five.

>> Okay. You notice I You notice I said if I get I get I get it. And it's such a small amount. You guys could knock that out so we don't have to get rid of it.

What uh uh Okay. So, Jade, you've got a picture of the debt right now.

>> Uh what do you have in the pipeline as far as home sales?

So, I have two that are pending past their contingencies. That'll be about 13,000 um this in the next 30 days. And then I also have five active listings. So,

[snorts] >> looking at maybe 20 more thousand.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> That gives you a better picture. >> Yeah. You've got 13 coming and then maybe another 20,000 in active listings.

Uh and there's already 13 there. I probably If your husband made a little bit more money, I might pull this number back.

But if I were you, I'd want like

two months there. Does that feel right?

>> Two months in the in the account to know that I'll be okay. >> Yeah. So, instead of 13, you said 2,000 a month is what you pay yourself. So, she's saying 4,000. >> Four or five. >> Leave. Okay. Leave five. Let's say five.

And that gives you eight to put towards debt. That's what she's throwing out. Does that feel like and then on a regular occurrence that five if it goes down you're always replenishing it to where it's always five? You're you're paying yourself your monthly amount plus there's always five in the contingency account. Does that feel good?

>> Okay. So, more like an emergency account. >> Yeah. But I don't want it to be confused with your emergency fund >> because this really just is it's kind of like if you have any other sole proprietor, you just want to make sure, hey, there's money coming in.

I understand my my income is very >> fluctuated. >> We would call this retained earnings in Entree Leadership Land, right? And and so but what we're also trying to do right now is >> we're trying to coach you up on what you can do with the 13 that's in there right now and make some headway. You've got a $5,000 student loan that you could knock out immediately.

>> Done.

>> Oh, 50 bucks.

>> Okay. It's still 50 bucks. 50 bucks is 50 bucks. Yeah. which is great. And then the next month, my goal would be to knock out this motorcycle.

>> Yeah. Okay. That's 12 grand over two

months. >> Can I be honest? I'd sell the motorcycle. >> Well, I was going that direction. >> I'd get the two I'd take $2,000 so that you're not upside down and I'd sell it.

That's what I would do. >> But you said he rides it a lot. That's what the only reason I You know what I'd do? I'd challenge him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd challenge him to go get a side hustle. What does he do, by the way, for $40,000 a year? He so we actually live

in Anderson which is like a smaller market but um he is in training to become an electrician so he is going to skyrocket crush okay you know what for that that's where I'm at yes Joy I mean

excuse me Ashley sorry sorry Ashley I think he keeps it um and you guys go all

in on this and knock this knock this out but I knocked the student loan out today I'd cut a check for five grand as soon as I got off the phone that's going to feel >> that's going to leave eight in there Jade Um, and it's going to feel real

good. Like that's a massive momentum.

>> Yeah. And then put the other three on the motorcycle. >> That cuts that in half essentially.

>> And then the next month, so that means in December the whole bike will be paid off. And now you guys will be setting yourself up to work on the credit card debt. Now, is it one credit card for 22,000 or is it littleer ones?

>> No, it's uh there's two. They're basically split in half. >> Okay. So Okay, great. So yeah, I I would work on right after that. Yeah. And now you got 11,000. One $11,000 card and the next $11,000 card. You guys are going to go so fast like this.

>> I love it. I love it. How What's your anticipated timeline for him to start making the money as an electrician?

>> Um I think he's due for a raise in six months, but about a year is we'll actually know for sure when he'll get in there. I think you guys, if you really get after it, I mean, you're going to be a long way down the line here on paying off this debt by the time he comes into some really nice money. >> I think you're going to be done by the end of the year because I think you're killing it on real estate. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> That's all right. Before you pay, it takes a minute to get the bearings on this. >> Listen, we're not playing armchair quarterback and looking in the back and looking in the past. Ashley, this you guys are a great young couple. This debt is very manageable. I'm so proud of you.

The thing that made me smile, by the way, Ashley, is when you told me what was in your pipeline, you know, great.

Five houses sitting out there. Let's see if we can stack two or three more on top of that. That's a beautiful situation for you. >> And if he starts side hustling, yeah, mark my words, in 12 months, you're going to be out of debt. He's going to be, you know, >> increasing his income greatly. You guys are going to be it's going to be looking good for you, >> right? Well, thank you guys a whole bunch. >> Yeah, you you're in great shape. Head up, right? Super excited. Um, we're

going to put you on the spot before we let you go. >> What are the chances, Ashley, that you cut a $5,000 check today to pay off that student loan?

>> 102%.

>> HOW ABOUT THAT? [cheering] >> THAT'S WHAT I'm talking about. >> That's like a nice birdie puck clap right there. I think that's fantastic.

>> I love that. >> You know what I love about her? >> Get it. >> She said 102%. That means is happening, Ken. >> I think she's cutting a check right now.

>> That is That's great. >> Uh, boy, that feels good, doesn't it?

Describe for people from a from a from a person who with your husband, you paid off half a million. What is it going to feel like to her? Describe the feeling for somebody who's yet to do it. >> Oh. Oh, boy. It's It's like nothing else because it's never comes back. It's a stress that never has the ability to come back in your life again. It's >> deleted. Deleted from the deleted files.

>> Yes. Yes. evaporated. Min and blacked.

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[music]

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>> All righty then. Today's question comes from Katherine with a C in California.

and she says, "My husband and I make a combined income of over $250,000 a year.

We have no debt other than our mortgage, which we're on track to pay off in two years. We follow the baby steps, budget every month. We have college funds set up for our two daughters and are intentional with our money." Jade, here's my dilemma. I love Christmas and

for years, we've only bought dollar store or thrifted decorations that don't last. I'd like to invest around $1,000

in quality Christmas decorations for our home that we can use year after year to build memories with our girls. My husband feels like this is frivolous and not aligned with our financial goals.

[laughter] >> But it's something very important to me.

Jaden Ken, >> HOW DO I APPROACH THIS conversation with him in a way that honors our financial goals but also makes room for meaningful

spending? Ah, I'm just so mad that this

is even a struggle. You guys have done so well with your money. You've been so intentional. This $1,000 that really is

a one-time expenditure cuz she's saying, "Can I spend $1,000 one time, get some quality stuff?" >> Yeah. >> This is not going to derail anything that you're doing in your world.

>> No, >> you could put the $1,000 out the window and let it blow away and it's not going to change anything in your world. >> Well, I'd want to know. I wish she was on the phone because I want to know how much she spends every year that he's supposedly okay with. Which, by the way, he's not okay with.

>> She's married to Ebenezer Scrooge on this deal. He doesn't care about Christmas decorations. He just doesn't care. >> Yeah.

>> But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Let's talk about this because you and I are both married.

personally it's not my thing. >> I know I know the story about his Halloween outfit. >> The man bought a Ninja Turtle costume >> straight off the movie lot. >> Straight off the movie.

>> But he sold some stuff. We talked through it. He did it the right way. >> He did.

>> But my point is that is just part of being married is there's things that >> you got to let it go. >> Get your spouse like >> because he's responsible about it. And this lady is responsible.

>> Oh at the dollar store she's probably spending like $15$20 just getting some little duads and stuff. >> I think she you know you got to sit down with him and go go babe this is actually a very small amount of money in the grand scheme of what we do. Uh I'll bet she spends about a hundred to 200 bucks a year. So, if she goes, "Look, $1,000 for really nice stuff.

It's going to get us five years worth of stuff. We're not have to spend much at all. You just got to speak the guy's language to one degree, but at the end of the day, you got to pull the wife card and go, "Hey, you know what? We're doing great.

>> That's the part because I don't think she needs to spend a whole lot of time explaining why this isn't very much money. I think the guy knows math and I think he knows that this is not a lot of money. He doesn't care. >> He It's just not a value to him. But he needs to understand that it's valuable to her. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Happy wife, happy life, man.

>> You know, you got to turn the lights off at the end of the day. So, let's make sure. I know. >> Do you know what I'm saying? Certain battles aren't worth the fight. Ken, >> I You're talking to me. I just want

people to know I'm giving out advice that I actually follow.

>> Uh, say what's on your mind.

>> You know, I'm about ready to >> say it. I know what you're thinking. Stacy has bought into the what I call the great candy inflation. And in our

neighborhood some several years ago, we discovered some houses are giving out fullsize candy bars.

>> I have a fundamental problem with that.

I think that you you're a teenager, you go buy your own fullsize candy bar.

>> You don't get it at my house. We're giving away free candy. You get the junior size. I just think it's too much luxury. These kids have no hardship in their life. I know. I'm off my lawn, but guess what? She thinks it's okay. And guess what's happened the last three years? >> Papa sat back. >> Fullsized candy bars I'm handing out this year as I sat on my front lawn with the fire pit and here I am handing out fullsize Milky Way and having a bad

attitude the whole time. >> But what did you understand that allowed you to do it? >> That it makes Stacy happy. Boom.

>> And so therefore it needs to happen.

>> Boom. >> And I can afford the fullsize candy

bars. You could have thrown them a budget item. >> You could have thrown them in the bonfire. >> I could have burned them. I almost did for principal's sake.

>> I [laughter] kid. I ain't ever going to throw a fullsize Milky Way away.

>> By the way, I did a little uh uh Mr.

Coleman tax. Did you? >> Before the kids got there. >> Oh, always. >> I had myself a Milky Way. You should have seen me sitting in the front. >> The whole thing >> waiting for the kids to show up. I went ahead and had myself a full Milky Way.

>> Wow. >> Underrated candy bar.

>> It's okay. It's not my favorite.

>> Just saying it's underrated. You and I know what what the dealio is. We know about the Butterfinger and the Payday. >> Butterfinger is the best candy bar in the world. And I agree with you on that.

Joy is up in St. Paul. Joy, you're never going to get that much of your life back as we talk about candy bars, but we're here for you now.

>> Fantastic. I was wondering if there's a a Halloween version of Scrooge that we could call you, Ken.

>> Oh, good call. Yeah. Is there a grumpy Halloween movie character?

>> Yeah, >> I think they're all grumpy. thinking Adam's family. >> But you know what? Truth is, Joy, I've gotten past it and now I just go with the flow and I the kids go, "Wow!" when I hand them their fullsize candy bar.

So, you know, >> so good for you. Okay. >> How can we help you? >> Fantastic. Okay. I am working a full-time job right now that I sort of like and a part-time job that I love and

I am burnt out and I need to make a

change. And I've been doing I've been doing this for about a year and I'm just I'm over it. So, I think that my two

options here are to number one, quit the part-time gig that I love and just do the full-time thing that's more stable that I don't really like, or I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a job offer come in at the end of this week for another part-time thing that will be in the field that I love so I could do the two part-time things.

>> Interesting. >> Together. >> Oh, this is pretty simple. I think

>> are are do both part-time jobs pay the

same more or less than the full-time?

>> Yeah. If I was just doing the full-time job, the two part-time jobs together is very comparable to what the full-time thing is. >> Okay. And if I heard you, you love both part-time jobs.

>> I know that I love the one. The other one, you know, I haven't done it yet, so I'm not 100% sure, but certain that.

>> Okay. But you know that that's up to you to determine in the job interview. And I want to tell you, Joy, that the job interview is for you, not for them. So many people think that we're always trying to impress everybody else. Pick me, pick me, love me, hire me. And and I

think the job interview is more for you to go, do I want to be picked by you?

And so it's certainly important in this situation >> that you don't take this second part-time job unless you know >> that you know that you know that you got a good picture of what this thing's going to look like. And that's asking questions like describe this job

every day and every week. How much does it change? When it changes, what's it look like? Another fun question to ask the interviewer is describe a year from

now if I'm crushing it and my annual and you're saying Joy you crushed it. What did I do?

>> People don't get asked those questions. Great question. >> And you need to put it on them and just sit back and smile >> and keep asking those questions. Now, let me ask you another question very quickly. Uh are you in the full-time job

because you just needed the income to pay off debt?

Oh, we we don't have any debt. We're baby steps five and six. I just I but I did need more income because we do have a mortgage and I needed I wanted the full-time job because, you know, it's more stable. I've been looking for a full-time job for three years and just kind of piece mealing together part-time 1099 contract stuff. So, that's why I took the full-time job. >> All right. But the point is is you guys don't have to have the income. It's nice, but you don't have to have it.

>> Or we have to have it. Yes or no?

No, we need we need more than what the part-time job can give me. >> All right. So, my point is I would go with the two part-timers. If if you do what I tell you to do and you ascertain through the interview process that this is in fact a great uh part-time job.

Now, I've got two part-time jobs and I sayanara out. I'm out. No longer doing

the uh full-time job that you don't love. It's very simple. >> Okay, >> we keep the income but now we got more joy. Pun intended there. I did that on

purpose. [laughter] I couldn't help myself. A good job. >> Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. You're a smart, smart lady. Uh I think you know what to do here. So do your do your due diligence and if the interview feels right and it's a good thing for you, go for it.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to be with you all. The phone number for you to jump in is88255225.

Kelly is going to join us now from Syracuse, New York. Kelly, how can we help?

>> Hi, thank you so much for uh chatting

with me. So, I have kind of a loaded

question with a complex thing, but I'll just give you the basics up front. Um, I

am 37, my husband is 35. We have two

boys. One is almost one, one is two and a half. We have been working on baby steps. Um we've probably got about 80,000 or so left. Um and

uh other than that, we have no consumer debt. It is all um either student loans

or we owe my mother-in-law a little bit for helping with taxes. But um >> just this last week, I got diagnosed

with um brain cancer actually. And so

this I'm just trying to like get a grasp

on like what what should we prepare for? Um,

right now we're on Medicaid and so um a

lot of our medical bills are covered, but there's some um fertility stuff,

some stuff that's not be colored covered. And I feel like we're always kind of teetering on the are we going to qualify for Medicaid this year or not?

And so just what like where should we start, my husband and I, as far as like

>> Kelly, yes, >> you are. Can I just tell you the way you started off this call, I would have never guessed >> that you were about to tell us that you are an inspiration.

>> I am blown away by your spirit. So, I wanted to say that. >> I wanted to say that our hearts are stunned for you. However, I'm inspired by you and I think you're going to beat this. I am blown away. So, let's So,

first of all, just know that we are we're going to walk with you on this and and we're we're so so sorry that you face that you're facing this.

>> The Medicaid issue. What is your income?

What is your combined income or because that's the income? It's income based. Am I right? >> That's right. >> Yes, it is. So, um my husband is an

independent contractor, so he can write

off quite a bit. Um, and so that is, you

know, he can write off trucks and tools and miles and all that stuff. So that I think has kind of kept us in that Medicaid. Um, a >> So what does he what does he do for a living? >> Say he builds custom homes. Um,

>> he's the actual home builder, the general contractor.

>> No, he's not the general contractor. He works for somebody. >> Okay. And what is he? And I understand.

Don't give me the fancy tax answer.

What's his income in a year?

I want to say we probably take home five

grand a month. >> Okay.

>> So, what's that? 60. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. Well, that's net 60. Um, and it

sounds to me like um the Medicaid, you really need the

Medicaid, but at the same time, I never want somebody to stay in a income bracket just to get government benefits.

>> Totally. No, we we we know that we don't want to do that either. >> Can can you tell us about uh and I'm not

trying to get too far into it, but with your cancer diagnosis, what are they saying? Is this something that they can go in and there's a surgery? Is this something that's ongoing? Do we not know what the future looks like?

>> So, this was um literally Friday. We

have like disappointments in the next two weeks coming up before Thanksgiving.

Um, we're meeting with, you know, all kinds of doctors and, you know, >> so you don't know yet. >> All of the people you Yeah, we don't know. Um, the understanding that we have

so far is that it's not in the greatest

spot, but surgery could still be an issue, but there's probably going to be some type of treatment. We just don't know exactly what that is yet.

>> Okay. >> Well, high level, here's what we would tell you. That right now, we're pressing pause. >> Yes. on the baby steps and we're stacking cash.

>> So, this is what we would tell someone if they knew a baby was on the way and we have unknown expenses. So, it certainly falls in that category. So, you press pause. Do you know off the top of your head how much you've been putting towards debt a month?

>> I want to say so we are in kind of a

a lucky I guess I'm going to say lucky

situation right now. is that lucky and

bad. We moved in to my mother-in-law's house to take care of her who has a version of Parkinson's. So add that on top of this. >> Wow. >> So we are currently we have a house

>> um that we have good friends who are just renting straight from us. Um >> and you're not paying for your current living. You're not paying the mother-in-law. Correct. >> Correct. We are not paying for her.

We're not. Um, so that's great news.

>> But I want to come back to I want to come back to the reality of where we stand >> as of Friday hit us. What were we putting towards baby step two total?

What were we putting in payments?

>> I want to say 2,000ish.

>> Great. Yeah. So that's the idea. The idea here is we're stacking up as much cash as we can. keep that same intensity that you were and put that money aside because the long and the short end of it is your husband may be missing days of work. There's going to be days of takeout. There's going to be you possibly hiring a cleaning service.

There's going to be needing other help with the the the the mother-in-law since you guys may not be able to help in the same ways that you were. Right? there is there's a lot of um and I don't say this in the way that you're a burden, but there's a lot of inconvenience coming this way because you guys must deal with this. >> Um and so having the extra money set aside to where it's not a financial problem or struggle is going to give you guys so so much peace while you're busy getting well and you know recovering from this.

So, as part of that, like it there's a

couple of like small questions. Um,

he has a truck that might be worth

20,000. Um, I'm not sure if it's quite that much. Um, we do own our house. If

we sold it, we could maybe walk away with 50,000.

And, um, so as far as those two, are those things we could should consider selling? Should we wait to see all that happens? >> I would definitely hold on the house.

>> Don't Don't do anything house. The truck though, does he What What would he make if he sold it for 20? What would he make on it?

>> We paid We paid it off, so we could walk away with 20, but we need to sign something. >> Oh, I see what you're saying.

>> I wouldn't No, >> I Nothing's on fire yet. Yes, you guys have the debt. You're covering the minimum payments, no problem. You have the $2,000 of margin. Um, I get wanting

to really go hard at this, but let's I mean, like you said, this is still so early. Let's go through the next series of appointments that you have coming up.

Let's get a little bit more information and and you can call us back, too, Kelly, if you, as a matter of fact, do >> as this goes. Call us back,

>> okay? >> And that way we can help you keep >> All right, we only have about 50 seconds. Hit us super fast.

>> That's fine. >> Go ahead. Um, we owe my mother-in-law about $5,500. She's a little bit salty for paying for some of our taxes. Should we work on paying that back as a minimum payment? >> Uh, no. It's I'm It's storm mode. And

you're doing her This is the same one that you've been taking care of, I think. Yeah. So, you're doing her a solid. She did you a solid. Right now, let's call it even. >> That's exactly right. Hold, hold, hold.

Everything we're focused on is taking care of you. >> Doing what the doctors tell you. Fight this thing. And I'm going to tell you something. Um,

Kelly, your spirit is [music] going to serve you so well. Keep that chin up.

I'm so blown away by your spirit.

>> What a phenomenal lady you are. We're praying for you, Kelly.

[music]

>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Richmond, Virginia. Jason is there. Jason, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. >> So, my dad owns a small electrician business

and he wants to buy a $90,000 truck for his business. So he can use it as a tax write off. >> Sure.

>> He has never been adverse to going into debt. >> Okay, that's that's good to know. So he's never been adverse to going into debt and he thinks that if he gets this truck, he will not have to pay taxes to the government and he'll be able to take that money and just put it into a truck that eventually he'll keep, >> right? >> Um he he owes from last year in his

taxes, but I think that's the result of him making a little bit more than he thought. >> It wasn't like a like he was not paying or anything, >> right? >> Um, so he he owes and he's expressed

that he doesn't even need the truck.

>> He just doesn't want to pay the taxes.

>> 100%. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've heard this before.

We've all heard this before. And it's such a uh it's such a weird mental

trade-off where people go, "Wait a second. I'm going to spend money, my money, >> in order to pay less taxes." And we think that's some sort of a good deal.

And I can't even imagine what a payment is on a $90,000 truck.

>> Yeah, cuz he's not he's going into debt for it. Correct.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. So, you got to help him. Dad, you're going to spend uh I'm going to guess it's 800 900 maybe over $1,000 a month. I have no idea what he's going to put down. I That's a world that I don't even know. So, I don't even know how to estimate. But, it's going to be a big chunk that he doesn't even

need. So, you got to kind of go dead.

You just told me you didn't need the truck. That means you don't need the $900 a month payment and you're all you're doing all of this because you like the way it makes you feel because you're paying less in taxes.

It's just such a weird financial trade-off and it never makes sense when you get it all out on paper.

>> Yeah. >> But in your head with no one else pushing you on it, it seems to make a lot of sense. Jade, you've heard this more than I have. You've coached people through this. Your thoughts? I mean, back in the day, you know, when my mother-in-law did our taxes, she was telling us to do the same thing. You got this money sitting in the business, you need to go do this, you know, spend it.

Um, well, my bigger question is before we even get into all the odds and ends, will your dad listen to you? That's the real question. If you tell him, "Hey, Dad, listen. Going into debt to avoid a couple thousand dollars on taxes is not the move." What would he even say to you?

>> Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it and he um I think he takes my opinion into

consideration. >> Um >> what's the numbers? >> I guess by that I mean like Oh, sorry.

What was that? >> Did he tell when when you told him when

he told you the plan and you spoke back to him, what were the actual numbers?

How much is he going to save specifically? That's what I want to know. And does he even know, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's like something that like I have a computer science background. I'm pretty good with numbers. What I'm not good with is the tax code. So that's really like what I've been having a hard time figuring out what is deductible so that I could give him a like a factual number of how

much he would save. >> It's not going to be over $90,000. I can tell you that. That's the point. The point is he's going to put $90,000 on

his name. He's going to add that in the plus category on his side and I can guarantee you the savings is not going to be as such. That alone does that make

I mean I don't need to tell you that but do you see what I'm saying? >> Yeah. Yeah. I guess what he's Yeah. I

guess it's like with the tax savings it could be around 20 to 30 grand that he

saves. Mhm.

>> And and so like he'd still have like a

$90,000 truck >> that he paid 60 to 70 for.

>> So I guess that is like a huge luxury.

Like you don't need that. Um so >> why would he have only paid 60 to 70 for the truck? He's paying 90,000 for the truck. >> Right. I just mean like if he like I don't and I don't know these. >> Oh, you're saying after the savings, after the taxes?

>> Yeah. Yeah. No point of it, no part of that makes sense. He's he's spending money, but he's not making any money,

per se, cuz he didn't even need the item to begin with. That's the That's the equivalent of me just being going to the store and being like, "Well, I bought this thing. It was on sale." Usually, it's this, but it's 50% off, so I just got it for 50% off. But it's like, yeah, but you still spent $60,000. That's essentially what he's doing is he's saying, "I can get a truck for 30,000 for for 30% off. No, I don't

need a truck, but I'll just get one anyway." That's the equivalent. Maybe if you explain it to him like that, it'll help him understand. But, um, I have a

feeling he might do it anyway. >> I think so, too. He can punch in the numbers. I just did a little I mean, this thing is all over. Well, first of all, if it's uh if it if it qualifies uh

uh as many full-size pickups do. Mhm.

>> It's the uh GVW WR over 6,000 lb. So, if

it's over 6,000 lb, you could potentially uh write off the entire

$90,000, but it still doesn't qualify in something we'd recommend because he's going into debt for it, right? >> Do you know what I mean? if he's flushed with cash and he's just, you know, but

going into debt for a tax deduction. But then there's also scenarios where he might only be able to write off um, you

know, uh, section 179 deduction limit

for 2025.

Uh, he might only be able to write off 31,000. So, he needs to get with a tax pro. >> Yeah. Find out more about it.

If there was a situation where he was paying cash, Yeah. >> If you're paying cash, sit with a tax pro. But if you're going into debt, this makes zero sense. >> Agree.

I would agree to that. I would agree to that. >> All right, Jason. I wish I wish it were different.

You You've got your work cut out for you. Unfortunately, it's not your life. >> Yeah. Yeah.

If you'll if he'll listen to you, run the numbers and show him on paper, >> right? And just walk him through it and go >> and and you, by the way, you got to make it simple. >> So, you're going to pay this much over the life of the loan.

>> Okay? You're gonna pay this much per month. >> Yep. To get this savings >> all to get this and you already owe the federal government taxes. It's got to be super simple. You can't debate emotionally. You can't say things like this makes no sense. The Ramsay people said this. None of that's going to work.

It's got to be real numbers. And even then, to your point, Jade, somebody goes, you know, I I'm going to do it anyway. >> I mean, we've all been guilty of going to the store. we didn't plan on getting anything, but we see that it's 40% off and we go, "Well, that's a good deal." And I, you know, I haven't put anything on a credit card in in over a decade, but plenty of us would swipe a credit card to get the thing that we don't need simply because it's 40% off.

That's essentially what's going on here. >> Yeah. And we do it even if it's not debt. I mean, >> yeah.

>> I I I'll buy stuff sometimes that I walk by and I go, "Well, that looks that looks nice, >> right?" >> And then I see the deal on I go, "Well, that feels nice." >> Yeah. >> I don't need it. Yeah, but the point is there's levels of how how irresponsible that looks. It's one thing if you had cash.

It's one thing if you needed the thing, you found it on sale, you paid cash, great, you got the saving. Next level is I didn't need the thing, but I did spend my own money and I paid cash for it.

>> It's debatable. >> Then the third tier is I didn't need the thing. It was on sale. I bought it and I bought it on borrowed money. That's when we're getting into Dumbo territory. And and by the way, this age-old argument that we've heard on the show a million times, >> it's all rationalization.

>> So I want I want people to understand that what's happening here with with Jason's dad is it's rationalization.

>> I don't need the truck.

>> Probably don't even want it, >> but it might be a fun toy, but I can justify it if there's a good cause

attached to it. So we don't even run the math. We don't even think of the logic. We just >> taxes. It's taxes. It's a good cause, right? Because people hate getting taxed. You feel like you're sticking it to the government, >> right? >> And you're really not, >> right? >> You know, [laughter] >> you know what I mean? And here's one for you. What are what's the tax? What are the taxes on a $90,000 truck, Jake?

>> That's what I'm saying. It's hard. >> You're paying taxes. >> Yes. Yes. >> So, I hate to be like sticking it to you over there, Pops, but you know, >> you're paying taxes on that car. Yeah.

>> As opposed to just holding on to that cash, >> right? And can we talk about that for a second? >> Let's How about getting current with your current tax bill? >> I love that. Love that idea. That's fa

fantastic.

>> Item one, [laughter] Jason's dad. Let's go ahead and get current on what we owe the IRS.

>> Oh boy. >> Last time I checked, they are not fun to deal with.

>> Yay.

Hey,

[music]

[music] hey, hey.

All right, [music] question for you folks. Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere?

Well, if that's you, you're not alone.

Maybe you've made the changes and had a few wins or something still feels off.

It's not because you failed. It's because money isn't just math. It's emotional. It's exactly why Jade Warshaw wrote her new book, What No One Tells You About Money. It's the very first Ramsay book that takes an honest deep dive uh at the um looking at the emotional side of money, and it's going to give you practical tools to make progress for good. You can pre-order it now for the fabulous price of $24.99.

And when you do that, you get over $100 in free bonus items, including the enhanced audio book, early access to the ebook, instant access to the exclusive video where Jade teaches you. It's entitled Your Financial Checkup, and then uh exclusive 3-week online book club, plus live Q&A with Jade. So, how

do you get all that? >> Pre-order. >> You pre-order it at ramiesolutions.com/store.

That's ramseyolutions.com/store.

Got to give you a quick word on it. Why should people buy this? >> Because Dave gave you a plan for your money and now I'm giving you a plan for you.

>> The part that's causing you to not work the plan for your money.

>> That's it. >> Okay. I like it. There it is, folks.

>> It's a plan. It's a proven plan. Just like you had the money proven plan, this is a proven plan for your emotions.

Boom. Done. >> Yeah. Ramseyolutions.comstore.

Go get it. Uh let's go to Susan who is in New York City. Susan, how can we help?

>> Yes. Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> So, I'm a 69year-old divorced um woman

that has four adult children in their 20s. I own a home worth about 780,000

with about a 380 uh,000 mortgage left on

it. I have only about five um about uh

$5,000 in credit card uh payments that

I, you know, I have left. I um my

question is is that I would like to build a little detached um mini house, I

guess, a small tiny house uh for me to

live in off the side of my house, which I can do as like a senior living um situation. And then I want to rent out my three-bedroom, two- bath house for about $4,500.

And I have an made an apartment also downstairs for another $2,000 that I could rent out. And then I would live in my tiny house. How do you feel about doing this for my end of life retirement plan? >> I don't like it. >> I don't like it either.

>> Why? >> Um because it's a requiring you to go into more debt in order to do it. That's thing one. And it's requiring you to be a landlord in old an older age.

>> Yeah. >> Because this, like you said, this >> Yeah. I'm a contract. I've been a contractor though. So, you know, that that part is is easy for me.

>> What do you mean?

>> I'm a I'm a general contractor.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> I'm 69. >> 69. >> I've been a contractor for 30 years.

Yeah. >> Yeah. But but but to Jade's point, this is not a knowhow. you know how to do stuff. Totally impressive. It's just a function of is that something that you want to lock into what what happens when you can't physically do it? It's not to know how you've got the knowledge, but as you age, >> Well, then I would Yeah, I would get it.

Then I would have if something came up, then I would have to get help. Of course. >> What are the numbers? Well, first of all, we're never going to tell you to borrow money. So, the answer is no to borrowing money to build a tidy home.

you save up and pay cash for it after you've walked the baby steps out, which we teach and you already have $5,000 in credit card. Um, and Jade can walk you through that in a second, but uh, I just want to know for the rest of the numbers if you rent out your home plus the

bedroom in the basement or whatever, and I think you gave us about $6,500 a month in rent that you believe you could get.

Did I get those numbers right?

>> That's correct. Yeah. >> Okay. What What do you owe on the home?

So 6,500 is what you're taking in.

>> What do you owe every month? >> So my I'm about 20 about 2,800.

>> So the mortgage is 2,800. Can I just ask a simple because there's a solution here that I'm just wondering about. Why wouldn't you uh the mortgage is 2,800 a

month. Why wouldn't you stay in the three-bedroom, two-b part and just rent the apartment below?

>> Oh, that not going to give me enough.

>> Yeah, it's not just not going to give me enough money. Okay. So, let's solve let's solve a little bit more of that because then you'd be paying $800 a month for a mortgage, which I don't think you're going to live anywhere cheaper than that. >> No, that's a fantastic number.

>> Um, so let's talk about this. So, you've

got this house. I'm going to hold it to the side for now. Um, it's worth 780.

You said you owe 380. Is that correct?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you've got some nice equity there. You've got only the only debt in your name is the 5,000 in credit cards.

Is that correct?

Yes. >> Okay. Is there any money? Is there any other debt anywhere?

>> No. >> Is there any other money anywhere?

>> No. >> Okay. >> You have no savings?

>> No savings. >> And what are you earning right now? Cuz you said you're a contractor.

>> Mhm. I would [clears throat] say roughly only between say 50 to 60,000.

>> Okay. About $60,000 a month. And >> No, no, a year. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. You're right. A year. Um, and what's your social security?

>> Very little. 800. Nothing.

>> 800. Okay. So, that's nothing there.

>> And you have no retirement accounts at all?

>> Nothing. >> So, wow. I I think for you, I didn't want to say this because I was hoping that there was a way to get to it. How I mean, I can ask realistically, how many more years you plan to work?

>> Um, probably I would say 8 to 10.

8 to 10. We could do something with that.

>> Yeah, we got to we got to pay this credit card off. >> We're going to do that like immediately.

Yeah. >> And then from here on, we've just got to start stockpiling. We've got to start stockpiling retirement. That's what you've got to do because if you got if you can work for 10 more years, we can turn this around a little bit for you and forego selling the house as long as

possible. And that would be my plan would be for 10 years I'm going to save as much of my income as I possibly can.

I'm going to rent out this lower apartment and then I'm going to look up and in 10 years I'm going to re-evaluate. Can I keep this house and can I live off of what I've stockpiled here or do I need to sell this house and by then hopefully it's grown in value a couple hundred,000 more.

>> Okay. So my ultimate goal is to keep my house for my family, my kids, you know.

So this is the only way that I could think that without, you know, that that that would work.

>> Well, I appreciate >> that. I want to keep the equity of that of the house for them to, you know, they're not going to it's going to be very difficult having four children that are, you know, in their 20s to buy a house these days. And so really that's that's why I was thinking that this this plan would be something that would, you know, possibly enable that to happen.

>> Well, but Jade's did you understand Jade's plan? Jade's plan allows you to keep the house. >> Yeah. Cuz if you think of Let's run some Let's run some real numbers here for a minute. Let's say right now, what are you making? Around 4,100 bucks a month,

>> roughly. Yeah. >> Okay. So, let's say you rent down the rent out the downstairs apartment. So, you're paying $800 a month uh in mortgage. Let's say you picked up some other work somehow, some other things that you could bring in some money. If you could get to the point where you're putting away $2,000 or $1,500 a month

into retirement in 10 years, that's $400,000.

That ain't bad to have that at 79 years

old and you could draw some off that,

right? And suddenly that's not looking so bad. >> Draw when you say draw, you say draw some in what way? And >> well, I'd want to I'd want to see if if there's any way that you can for sure off the growth for so maybe 10% and work

with a smart vester pro to say what is this how long is this going to last me?

What can I take from this to where I can take from this until I'm 85 or what have you, 95? And I'd work with a smart vester pro to get that number. And then that's buying you time of not having to sell this house. That's right. >> Because if you can live off that nest egg, that that's another day that you get to keep this house for your family.

>> Yeah, I that my main goal.

>> Yeah. No, that's my main goal.

>> Or or listen, here's an alter and we're trying to get you some retirement income of which you have none. Okay. But if you don't decide if you decide not to do that, go with your plan. I would at least wait and and pay off your credit card debt and I'd save up the money for the tiny house if you're going to go your route.

Don't go into debt is my point. I love Jade's route. It's the route. We got to think about your long term while you're healthy >> because your social security is going to pay for the rent.

>> That's that's what I would do all day and not go into more debt.

[music]

Our

[music]

[music]

[music] scripture of the day comes from uh Luke 11 9 verses, excuse me, verses 9 and 10.

So I say to you, ask and it will be given you. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be open to you. For everyone who asks receives. The one who seeks finds and to the one who knocks the door will be open. Our quote of the day from Ronald Reagan. We can't help everyone, but everyone can help someone.

>> All right. >> Sadi is up in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Satie, how can we help?

Hey. So, uh, my question today is, uh, should my husband and I pull out our retirement to pay off the last of our consumer debt? >> No. >> No. >> Okay.

[snorts] So, rounding up to [laughter] Yeah, we're in step two. We paid off um

$12,000 of credit card debt from pay or

selling property, and we have 39,000 left on a vehicle, and that is our only vehicle. Um, and so we were thinking, you know, to get out of debt right now and to be at a better point, um, should we pull that out? So, >> do you understand, and if it's if you don't, it's okay. We'll explain.

Do you understand why we both said no in unison? >> Um, I believe [clears throat] so. Um, but explain. >> Well, no, you tell us.

It's always better if you get it without us having to explain it. Why do you think we said no? >> Well, I mean, it's already it's already invested. It's already in the works and you have to pay penalties as well as taxes.

>> You got it. And can I just say there's no shame in your game. We're not judging you. I love that you've had it.

>> Yeah. >> And this is all a result of having it.

We want to pay it off today.

>> Yes. >> And and and and we get that and we've

both been there before, but um you guys have done so much. How much money have you paid off in debt to this point?

um progress to 18,000.

>> Okay. And you did it in one fell swoop with the land sale.

>> Um the

>> on the vehicle already. So, >> all right. We lost you. >> Are you there? >> Yeah. Well, we are. We're not sure you were on that one. We couldn't hear you.

>> I'm here. So, um So, we paid off 12,000 on the property and roughly 8 or 6,000 on the vehicle already. >> Good. Okay. >> And what's your income together?

>> Um so, I don't work. I'm a stay at home mom and my husband makes um about 60,000 before taxes. >> All right. Tell us about the $39,000 car. What is it worth if we were to sell it uh private sale?

>> So, we're underwater roughly 10,000 on it right now. Okay. >> Okay. Well, that's the other reason why you wanted to dip in to the uh retirement because that that feels even worse once somebody's committed to something. >> So, if I were in your shoes, what would happen? I mean, if you really wanted to get out of this fast, I'm not saying you have to do this, but if you really wanted to get out of it fast, you could say, "Okay, we're going to save up um a

quick 10,000 maybe and then get a loan for the other 10,000." So, you get out of the car and then you have 10,000 to pay for a cash car.

>> So, now you have $10,000 of debt plus a $10,000 cash car.

>> How quickly could you save up 10K?

>> Um, I mean, probably within 10 months.

12 months. 12 months to save up $10,000.

>> I mean, with you guys side hustling, he picks up extra work, you're working at night, you're doing something from home.

I'm talking about when balls to the wall, how how quickly could you do it?

>> Aggressively, probably six months.

>> Okay. This is I as as excited as you

were when you first called about getting rid of this and going to any extent even you know pulling out retirement I want that same energy on the side hustle to

get the actual cash to do it because you guys can do this and again this is a suggestion because I thought you were super super excited to get out of debt.

>> If you think you can pay off the 40,000 here quickly it's going to take the same sacrifice. Mhm. >> So, it's just >> how quickly do you want to do it?

Because if you have 40,000, that's going to be that much longer that you're going to be in that that that frame of mind of

we're doing whatever we have to take. Beans and rice, rice and beans, right?

And that's not necessarily fun. So, I

[laughter] was just trying to shorten it for you. >> And that's kind of where we're at. We're we're only positive $600 a month. So,

we're putting >> we're putting that towards it. And then I'm working on getting a part-time job.

um good >> to work from home to help with that. So, we'll be hopefully $1,100 positive a

month and that's with nothing extra. So, >> great. Great. And and your husband, he needs to kick it into high gear, too. And when I can when we say

>> scorched earth, high intensity.

>> Yeah. >> Uh we really mean it, Satie. Like, this

is >> this is I I I kiss my husband in the morning and I might not see him until we're both sleep at night kind of thing.

>> Yeah. I mean, we've we've had so many debtree screams. You may have heard them on the show where people are working crazy hours and you know, just instead of the crazy hours, let's just throw a number out there. >> All right. So, let's say you guys generated an additional three grand a

month and all three grand of it went to the car. >> We're out in a year.

>> Now, I always like to oversimplify, but I don't think that's truly oversimplification. I'm just going I'm giving you a number. Then you work backwards >> and then you start going, "Well, if I got to work this many hours to get there, but it's like, what do we have to do, Satie? You and your hubs

>> through selling more stuff and working

like crazy, can we generate three grand a month that we would put on the car?" And in that case, we're out of it in 12 months and we got a nice car.

>> Great.

>> I would go that route if it were me.

>> Okay. >> And I'll tell you why, and I want Jade's take on this, but I've heard Dave say this. I've been been on this show a day before and he'll say something to the effect of, "I like you paying this car off so that you get this whole debt payoff." With the large swaths of selling something here and there while we fundamentally don't care, you don't you don't feel it as much as when you're hustling. >> If the if it was a little cheaper, I might say that.

But, you know, you guys making 60 and having a $40,000 car, that's too much. >> It's too much. No question. And that for me and the fact that you had another car that was, you know, 8 18 or whatever it was, six.

Um, it's just you guys have too much for your income. And so that's why if I had to do it, I would sell the car and get something cheaper.

Get something closer to 20 25 that feels right. Um, but I think that if you do my plan,

you'll still get some of the medicine that Ken is talking about of the Oh, yeah. I got to work. I got to hustle.

>> I I am all for selling the car, >> but because it's the only debt they have, I'm fine if they attack it, too.

But I'm I'm giving you a 12-month plan.

>> Yeah. >> On the car. >> Yeah. >> Uh and and you got to choose, but

>> Okay. >> It's going to be uncomfortable regardless. >> Yeah. >> Yep. For sure. Yeah. Is your husband fully on board here?

>> Oh, 100%. Yeah. He's He's listening to the show as we speak, so >> Okay. Okay. >> Game on. Game on. >> Yeah. Well, there you go. >> I mean, you'll be surprised what you can get for 10,000.

>> Oh, I I love searching up cars.

>> Yeah. >> You know, and and by the way, that's the quickest way to do it. Now, again, you you got to go get the smaller loan.

That's the only time we're okay with that. >> But, uh you're going to get out of debt faster. No question about it. So, yeah.

Appreciate the call. >> Good call. Good call. Um, explain the the I love this because again I always want to remember we have a lot of new people coming in. Yes. Explain our ratio on car. Why did we say this was too much car based on Yeah. >> their income. >> So the the thing to remember about cars is we all need transportation, but cars go down in value. They're not going up.

And once they start going down in value, you feel that in your wallet. You feel that in your take-home. And so if you're making, you know, our rule of thumb is you shouldn't have more than 50% of your salary in things that are going down in value. So they make 60,000 a year.

The max car they need is about 30,000 combined. So each of them are driving a $15,000 Camry. That's basically what that looks like. They've got they've got a $40,000 car and then another vehicle that they paid off.

So we already know more car than they need.

it's like, what have what are you saying, Jade? But the truth is that car payment is keeping so many people from doing the things that they want to do and need to do with their money, like invest for the future. And so, if you can get back your car payment, >> you are ahead of most Americans. If you can sell off your vehicle and if you're upside down, what we were telling them to do is go to the the bank or I don't care what kind of debt you get for the difference.

It's be if you're going down, >> it's good. If you're going from $40,000 to $6,000 because you got a $6,000 loan to cover the upside down portion so you can actually sell the vehicle, that is a win. That is a win. >> And while we're talking about this, this may not be a fun take for a lot of you, but you know, when I hear a lot of Americans, you know, talk about how expensive it is to live, most of the time they're not looking inward for just a moment to go, what are our combined car payments?

And [music] with twocar household, you're probably looking at $1,500 a month. That would change their life if that wasn't there. So, just food for thought. >> Hey, remember this.

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## 257. You Can’t Drift Into Financial Peace | March 13, 2026


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>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey show. Number

one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and host of Front Row Seat, Ken Coleman is my co-host today. Open

phones at 888-825-5225

and is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Anne. How are you?

>> I'm well, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Okay. So, I'm calling in today because

um I've been in a financially abusive uh marriage for the last 23 years.

Um I am facing prison time. I'm actually supposed to be checking in to prison on um the beginning of June.

Uh we have four children. They're all amazing, smart. Um I stayed at home with

them for the last 20 years.

Um I'm going to prison for um it's called a

conspiracy to commit bank fraud.

Um my during um COVID, my husband put my name down on documents showing that I was the owner of a couple

of companies. He um gave me different people to put down on these companies.

And um and so that's that's what happened.

Um So, I was >> you you knew this was happening when it was happening, though. >> No. No, I didn't know that it was >> you being held accountable for someone fraudulently using your name? I'm confused.

>> That's a good question. I mean

that's a good question. Um we had federal agents come to the house and um, ask questions like, is this your signature? And I said, yes.

Um, like I said, I've been a stay-at-home mom for so long. I know we have back tax

back taxes due. I signed those. I've never had my name on an account.

Um, anytime my husband would put my name on a bank account, it would it would be closed due to like overdrawn funds.

Um, so I I've been in a position that

any money was his money. I never had a say in anything we did with the money.

He had a bad gambling problem.

Um, so I mean, yeah, that's uh >> can I can I push back on this cuz this is a big thing to drop on us here.

You've already been convicted and so that means the government went through trial and proved to a jury that you did

in fact uh participate in this. And so when Dave asked you the question No?

>> No, we didn't go to trial. Um, my attorney told me that uh who I've not

been paid. My attorney told me that um

I would probably not win at a trial because >> Yes, I pleaded. Yes.

Yeah. >> long are you supposed to be incarcerated?

>> Three years.

Um, so

so they let him go in first. Um,

>> Oh, so he's in he's already in prison.

>> He was in, now he's out. Out of three years, he did one year.

Um, during that time I had gotten a job. I

had I have a graduate degree I got before I started having children.

>> How old are your children now?

>> 22, 18, 17, and 12.

>> Okay. So, I'm afraid to ask, but apparently he's taking care of them.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Are you divorced yet?

>> No. He won't He won't give me a divorce.

>> He doesn't get the option of giving you a divorce. You live in Florida. You can file for divorce, and it will be granted.

>> He takes my keys if I try to leave. He's let the air out of my tires. He's

>> I don't care.

Obviously, you can't stay married to this guy.

Obviously >> anywhere to go. I I don't know what to >> going somewhere in 3 months. So, that's not an issue.

We already know where you're going. But, in the meantime, you need to get an attorney and get divorced.

>> That's my my plan is the second I set foot in that prison that I'm filing for divorce, and I'll >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> somewhere to go after, and I'll have a better plan, and >> Yeah. Good. You get to start over fresh after living in an abusive horrible situation for a way too long.

Right? >> Right. >> Okay. Yeah. So >> And now that I've worked for, you know, the past 3 years at a job

I know I have like a 401k. What Do I

need to do anything with that before I

go away? >> Uh you can sit down with a and roll it into an IRA cuz you're probably not going back to that job, I suspect, right?

>> Prob- Prob- I I don't know. Possibly.

>> I'm kind of betting on that, yeah.

Yeah. Um so, what were you doing? What was your career for the last 3 years?

>> I um did epidemiology for a

clinic.

>> You did everything for what? For a clinic?

>> Um epidemiology tracked diseases.

>> Okay. So, you you're that's what your graduate work is in?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. All right. So, you think you can land that when you come out?

>> Probably not. No, I've I've so much resentment toward my husband. I'm I'm probably never going to be able to do anything.

>> I'm sorry. Why would you not be able to land that again? Your husband has nothing to do with this. You're not your husband anymore.

It at the end of the story and you are starting fresh the other side of a jail term.

Why could you not go back to this career?

>> I think because I have a felony, I don't

believe that I have a very marketable >> Well, let me jump in here to try to encourage you. I you have 3 months to tie up some loose ends, obviously, and one of the most important is to get your story out there either to your existing company. They probably already know this. But, this is a situation where you

have to try with everything you have to

get out the correct narrative and look people in the eye. And some people are going to say things to you cuz they don't like tough conversations. Some people don't even want to consider anything. But, I would be trying to shore up what re-entry would look like.

Cuz if your husband got out in a year, hopefully you're going to get out sooner than him. >> Yeah, you're not in a in a situation where you're handling money in any way.

So, it's a medical situation. So, having a felony is not necessarily going to keep you from landing a job.

Especially if you tell them when you go in for an interview, when you do the research, you're going to when you do the background check, you're going to find a felony. I'm out. I'm clean. I'm innocent. Here's what happened.

>> Yeah. >> I'll give you the short Give me the thumbnail sketch version of that. Uh not with a bunch of shame and not with a bunch of drama, but just a little little bit of information for the person doing the interview. And if you don't need to call me back, if you don't you know, you can go ahead and let me know now or uh if you You to give me a shot, I'll be the best employee you've ever had.

This This time This time without the baggage of an abuser hanging around your neck.

>> The year he was away was the best year of my life. >> Yeah. Well, that's Welcome to the rest of your life.

>> Yeah. >> He's away forever now.

>> Lay the groundwork now. I can't say this enough with your community. Lay the groundwork now for when you get out that you have a job or at least possibilities or people who will champion you.

>> Yeah. That's going to be very vital.

>> Plug into your local church. Let your story be known. >> Mhm. >> And um you know, you you've got two things to work on uh when you come out. You will be divorced unless you're really you're dumb.

You really need to be divorced.

You needed to be divorced 20 years ago, but now you really need to be divorced, okay? And then you got to deal with a a career, restarting your life, and taking care of a 12-year-old. And how old that 12-year-old is when you get out. But if he got out in a year on three, you'll probably get out in a year or six months on three. I think that's a reasonable set of assumptions. So, you need to get this divorce done.

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Sarah is in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Hey Sarah, what's up?

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I just wanted to know what your advice is on whether like taking out a loan to get a master's in counseling because I got a bachelor's degree in individualized studies, it's like a general degree, and I just haven't been able to find work that I really like.

So, what would you recommend like if that's worth it or just continue to try to find work that I can like?

>> Well, what do we think that the master's degree is going to do? Do you have a tangible idea in your mind?

>> Well, I see myself as being a really good advisor, a really good counselor, and so it would give me the credentials to be a counselor. >> Okay, what's that what's the journey like? How many years, how much money?

>> Two to three years, and it would take um 20 to 30,000 dollars.

>> Yeah, well, don't take out a loan for it. The answer is we're never going to tell you to take out a loan for that.

Um and so now you put that target out there and you go, "Okay, 20 to 30,000." Is that for the champagne uh degree? Is

that the uh is it the line or the beer budget, right? Because here's what I know about master's degrees or any graduate degree.

People don't care. Your clients, the people that you serve, won't care. So, I'm going to do some price analysis, and I'm going to go, okay, reputable schools, but I'm going to look at, can I beat that price? If I can beat that price, great. And then we're going to cash flow this, because the degree, that master's degree, will always be there.

So, it's not worth going into debt for you to have the opportunity to then get into a new field. So, the answer to that is always going to be no. You don't need to get a loan for that. You need to be patient or super urgent to stack up the

$20 to $30,000 as quickly as possible.

Are there um >> 33. >> I know. >> Um and >> How long would it take you? Okay, so let's play this out. How long would it take you at the $30,000 price to save up that money? >> Or save up enough of it to get started on it. >> Yeah, so that you can cash flow it.

>> Um honestly, I don't really know because

um >> Well, let's walk through it. >> I could sell insurance. >> Do you Do you have an Do you have a career now? Do you have a job now?

>> Um actually, I thought I could find work in I'm basically just getting started with an insurance agent to sell insurance. >> Okay, this is a trap. I'm going to warn you, this is a trap. We see this all the time.

You come out of school, you can't find something, and you think, okay, since I can't find anything, I'm going to go to the one thing I know, which is how to learn, and I'm going to go get another level degree, and that one's actually going to give me a better chance to get hired.

>> Kind of. >> Yeah, it's a trap.

It's a trap. >> Yeah, and that's not the answer. So, the answer is um if I've lived my whole life

and for the last 20 years or or five years or seven years, all I've dreamed about is getting to be a counselor, and the way to get to be a counselor is to get a master's degree because you have to have one to be licensed in every state now um as a therapist. Um and and

that's what I always I wanted to do.

That's a different narrative than I

hadn't been able to find a job now I'm selling insurance so I think I need to go back to school.

And that's a trap.

>> know. >> That's a trap. >> know what I wanted to be. I finally like cracked down and I like found my authenticity and found what I was good at and I knew I was in high school that I would be a good counselor and so I was like, you know what?

I would I I have been I've had my heart set on being some kind of counselor for the past like 5 10 years. >> So what I would do then is go to work sweeping floors for a counseling organization rather than going into insurance. And I would I would be the secretary at the front desk for the counseling organization and be in there and see if some of them even have scholarship money or our tuition reimbursement money.

you need to get in the proximity Ken always says his book with the proximity principle of that rather than I'm going to dive off I can't been able to find a job and so I'm going to dive back into studies. And diving back into studies is never a good thing when you haven't been able to find a job. So yeah you need to get get your big girl life up and running and the best place you could do that in your situation is in proximity of a counseling organization especially if

they have some kind of tuition reimbursement program. And I'm I'm not

kidding if you can sweep their floors that's what I would do rather than sell insurance. >> That's absolutely right. >> Selling insurance is absolutely has nothing to do with anything >> That's right. >> except you just took a job and they they were the only ones that would hire you this week and so you took a job and they're not even going to pay you.

They're putting you on straight commission to try to get your mother to buy insurance and then they're going to fire you. So cuz you're not going to make any sales.

this is not tracking out.

>> Yeah. >> So hang on we're going to send you a copy of the book Proximity Principle that Ken wrote. And Ken, talk about that for a minute, the whole thesis behind that book, because it's helpful to a lot of people. >> Yeah, the Proximity Principle says, in order to do what I want to do, fill in the blank there, I've got to be around people that are doing it and in places where it is happening. So, the real formula is the right people plus the right places equals opportunities.

It's so this is a really empowering thought when you figure out that it's actually not a deep thought, it's just the old phrase it's not what you know, it's who you know. We all know that's true. That really that sticks because we all get that. So, it's >> some kind of slimy way, but it's just the way a door gets opened is you knew somebody.

>> That's it. Well, you told me this is one of my all-time favorites is if you ever walk by a fence post and see a turtle on top of it, you know it didn't get there by itself.

relationships. And so, the Proximity Principle is a step further to say, okay, if I want to be a project manager

then the first thing I need to do is in my immediate circle, do I know anybody that's a project manager in real life? And if it's not in my immediate circle, does my immediate circle know somebody? And now we're going to go to coffee or lunch and we're going to just simply do a book report on them, right? How did they get where they they are now?

What are the good parts of their day? What are the bad parts of their day? How much money do they make? What does the ceiling look like in that industry?

You get to know everything about it.

Number one, you validate This is called clarify and verify. You clarify what's involved in the role and the journey to the role, and then there's something inside that tuning fork will go off.

That's confirmation. That's verify that I want to do this.

The second thing is is that you now are taking the posture of a student, Dave, and you're learning. And people appreciate that. And then you say, hey, I would appreciate any other connections or relationships you'd be willing to put me in touch with. And that's where now these things begin to stack.

And eventually, if you stay that course, keep showing up in that way, opportunities present present themselves to where somebody says, "Hey, there's a job open. I just recommended you, and you're likely to get it." That's how this plays out. >> Nicholas is in Seattle.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Uh so, I had kind of two questions. The first one being uh me and my wife are in baby step two, and we've paid off quite a bit of debt now, and >> How much have you paid off?

>> Uh we've paid off a little over 10,000, and we're down to 7,000. >> How long did that take?

>> Uh it took I want to say maybe eight or nine months.

>> Okay. Good for you. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry for interrupting. How can I help?

>> Um so, the first question I had was if and when would it be wise of me to maybe

take some of our income now that some of the debt is paid down, to go and take maybe a family trip for the day um to

possibly go and enjoy ourselves cuz it seems like we don't get to spend as much time you know, kind of pitching all of our money towards paying off the debt.

>> In In general, you take vacations after you get your emergency fund built and after you're debt-free.

When you say for the day, I don't know why that takes any money. Where are you going for a day?

>> Maybe it's like a fishing trip, something that cost a a couple hundred dollars. >> Yeah. Okay.

Uh like just fishing on the local lake?

>> Uh maybe going up to the mountains or something. >> Uh-huh. For the day?

>> Yeah, yeah. I'm I'm asking because it almost seems as if it was wrong to spend money on something >> It is.

You need to get your butt out of debt, and you're pretty laid-back about this whole discussion. The way people get out of debt is they get a lot more fired up than you are.

They get a lot more angry about the debt than you are. And they they get a lot more intense than you are. And uh if they're thinking about a fishing trip, they're going to go buy $20 worth of rod and reel over at the Walmart and drop a float in the lake

that's about a 10-minute drive away and call that a fishing trip, which is the same thing as going to the mountains for the kids. It's only the adults that know the difference.

I got a little lake in my neighborhood, and you can catch a catch about 25 fish in 25 seconds over there cuz there's nothing going in there. I took my 4-year-old grandson down there the other day. We had a fishing trip.

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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and get yourself filed, darling. Jill is with us. Jill is in Dallas. Hi Jill, how are you? >> Hi, I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question about a trust. I've heard you say a couple different things and I'm just curious what you would do in that situation. >> Okay. >> I've heard you say maybe an LLC or if

you're raising smart kids then you don't necessarily need a trust, but I have minors and I'm just curious um what I should do. I have a house and I have um a house that is paid for and then I have some mutual funds in my IRAs and stuff like that. >> Mhm. Okay. And so your net worth is a million or so? >> Um it's close to 4 million.

>> Oh, good for you. Well done. Very well done. Okay.

Um what we did when we were at your stage and we had minor children was we set up a will and the will I'm sorry?

>> I'm sorry, I should also add I'm divorced. So >> Okay. >> My my kids are taken care of in the form in the fashion that they will go to their dad if something happened to me. I just want to take care of my stuff for them. >> Okay. Yeah, that's fine. >> So maybe that's what I do. >> the exact same thing then. So so the The guardian would be your ex. But the But

then what do we do with your stuff if you die? And while they're minors, so what we had set up on ours were minors was the trust is formed upon death.

And it's just a children's trust, very simply Jill's kids, and that's the trust. And whatever you call it, whatever you want to call it, but it's a children's trust while they're minors, and all of your assets are dumped into that trust, and then you leave instructions to the trustee of how you want those assets handled. I'll give you a couple of things we did, and you could choose to add those or not add those. Okay?

>> Okay. >> Uh one was the trust the income generated by the trust while they're minors um a a good healthy child support payment

goes to the guardian to take care of the kiddos while they're minors. So, I don't want the him to be in this case your ex to be stressed at all with clothes and

you know, food and so forth for having all the kids now full-time. Okay?

>> Right. >> Um that's one thing. The second thing we said was, "Okay, you can use some of the money from the trust when you go to college and pay cash for college. You could use it for the purchase of your first car, a minor amount for that.

Um you could use it if there was a major medical event and you needed to pull some out in addition to the monthly income to cover medical expenses for the child while they're minors." But other than that, the money was just going to be sitting there growing.

Okay? And then when they turn 18

it the uh you know, their portion of the assets would be turned over to them. That's how we had it set up. Uh later on we modified it cuz it's got to be a little larger amount of money. We said, "Okay, at 18 you get X amount, and at 25 you get the rest." Cuz we didn't want to dump you know, millions and millions on a freaking 18-year-old. Okay? So, um

that's how we handled it until they were grown. When they were grown, we changed everything, of course, uh because they're not minors anymore, and um and we even put in hours, we dictated how the money in the trust was to be handled and what it was to be invested in. Like the four types of mutual funds we talk about, and there's this piece of real estate and it's paid for and it just stays in there.

Can't be sold. And so the trustee can't get all conservative and put it all in CDs or something.

>> Um what about should I put my house in anything right now or just >> Not now. No.

>> Everything just goes upon death. And then when they both turn 18, then I can restructure everything? >> Every Upon 18, you can dictate that the trust does X. Or once they are 18 and

you're still alive, then you'll change the whole thing.

And decide what you want to do at that point. And you do that based on whether or not they're going to be competent adults and whether this money's going to be a blessing. Cuz if you give money to an incompetent, it's not a blessing.

>> Yes. >> It magnifies their incompetence.

>> Okie doke. >> So that's what we did. You know, so as they grew Now, we're way past that now.

I mean, my youngest is 35.

So, you know, we're way past all that and we're way past the competency question and all those kinds of things.

So, all of our structure today is all

just built around risk management and around keeping the stinking government's hands off of it upon death.

Cuz the stupid government takes 55%

of everything above I think this year it's $28 million or something. So, the death tax, you know, they tax you once while you're alive, they tax you again when you die. So, you spend a lot of money, a lot of time keeping their hands off of it then, also.

And but that's a different discussion than you're worried about today. Right now, you just want to make sure your kids are okay and the stuff is managed well. >> Yeah. And good on you, Mom. You know, great job with your financial situation.

Yeah. wanted to let you know you're a real hero and uh they're going to appreciate that someday. To be a single mom and in your situation, great great job. >> intelligent, intentional, and all of that. There's so much wisdom there. Well done. Stella's in Los Angeles. Hi Stella, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Big fan. Big fan, but don't tell anyone I said that. >> Okay. >> Um we have an 82-year-old neighbor that

wants us to consider using a contract for deed to purchase her home now.

>> not. >> Oh. >> Under no circumstances do you do that.

And I'll explain to you why. >> So she Okay.

>> Okay. >> A contract for deed means the property is in her name.

And when you fulfill the contract >> to do it >> There's a When you fulfill the con >> do it where it's in our name?

>> That's the only thing you can do this that I would do. Um we'll talk through that in a second. Let me finish on the contract for deed. >> Okay. >> So it's in her name and you pay payments and when the amount is paid off, then she transfers title to you.

Okay? Problem is if that person uh falls

asleep at the wheel and hits somebody head-on and gets sued for half million dollars, there's a lien on property that you thought you owned, but it's not in your name, it's in her name. So they put a lien on her property for 500 million dollars. And now you don't ever get this property no matter what happens. Or she forgets to pay the IRS.

She's 82 and she didn't file her tax returns and they put a lien on the property that she owns cuz it's in her name. So everything that she could possibly do to screw up life lands on you after you pay payments on this for 10 years. So not a chance you ever do contract for deed. Very dangerous way to take title.

>> No. >> Good. Well, then it's very easy. She wants to sell it to you and move away or stay in the property? >> No, she wants she wants to live there until she passes and then we'll take the property over. >> Okay, that's very easy. You need to just see a real estate attorney and all you've got to do is just transfer the title and she is she carries back a mortgage against it. You pay the mortgage.

And if she dies, you have to finish paying the mortgage to her heirs, correct?

>> Correct. >> Okay. Or if she dies, the mortgage is forgiven in return for having her and then what she's getting is a life estate.

A life estate. So while she's alive, she can live in the property.

And I would qualify that life estate even further. While she's alive and medically able to live in the property.

So let's say that she ends up in memory care because of it early onset it wouldn't be early onset but dementia, okay?

And it can't live in the property anymore, but then she lives six more years. Meanwhile, the property's sitting there rotting down cuz you can't take it cuz she's still alive.

So if the case she's So a life estate

qualified extra qualification that if she's unable medically to live in the property anymore, it goes ahead and transfers as if she had passed. And and then whatever happens to the mortgage, you guys can negotiate that at that point. But you pay the payments until either she dies or until you pay it off to her kids and the property is in your name the whole time just like you took out a mortgage only the mortgage is held by her.

>> So it's like seller finance.

>> It's exactly what it is.

>> Okay. >> Exactly. Seller finance modified by a life estate with a medical qualification.

>> Fantastic. Thank you so much.

>> protects you and protects her and everybody's going to get a good deal here.

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>> Javier is in San Antonio. Hey Javier, what's up?

>> Good afternoon. Uh so, thanks for taking my call. I took your course um that I took at your local church a year ago at Financial Peace University. Thought it was great. Learned a lot there. Got a lot out of it. Uh but I'm still stuck on steps one and two.

Um there's just some stuff wrong.

Can't save the $1,000 emergency fund mainly because my income is so low. Uh and my debts are too high. I have a one line of credit and two credit cards.

Um So, it's what >> What do you make? >> 70 chips.

It's 59.95 an hour um gross. So, it runs roughly uh 545 uh net

a week. >> Mhm. And how old are you?

>> 41 years old. >> What do you do?

>> I'm a uh technician. So, uh uh low voltage cable installing.

>> Okay. Well, I agree with you. Your job sucks.

What are you looking for What are you looking for to get a better job making twice? Cuz the bad news is you don't make anything. The good news is doubling it wouldn't be hard.

>> Yeah, I I'm I'm wondering like what's the what's the trade that comes to mind?

Don't worry about giving me a right answer. This is a quick exercise. What trade comes to mind when you think about what you do now from a technical standpoint putting in that low the low >> of it. >> cable low voltage cable. What comes to mind as a nice little stroll into a much better paying trade. What comes to mind?

>> Electrician. >> Thank you, Dave.

That's the answer. >> Right. >> So, there's a huge need right now, Javier, across the country and I suspect that San Antonio is the same way and trade school is a lot less time and a lot less money and you might given your current job be

able to get in at a low level and earn your way or somebody pay for you to go to the next level of trade school. So, when we throw that at you, how do you respond to that?

>> I have tried that and have failed multiple times. So, I applied to the local apprenticeship and I scored well on the test, but the interview they rejected me. They took out the system instead. That's what it was like. >> They what? >> Took out the So, in San Antonio there's a local uh uh trade school for people >> I get it, but why did you fail the interview process?

>> I didn't really get any feedback. Um maybe I'm too old. I'm not I'm not sure.

>> How old are you? >> 41. >> 40 41. >> You're not too >> You're not too old.

>> Uh I I I don't really I can't give you a whole lot of feedback on that, although, you know, uh there might be some confidence issues going on. Uh you know, where you have to go in there and kind of say, "Hey, I can I can learn anything. I'm teachable. I'm coachable.

I'm super hungry." Uh do you think you're coming across that way? Yes or no?

>> So, I I was fired from another job a few years ago. I'm probably still carrying that baggage with me.

>> Okay, so you're not confident. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> That's true. >> All right. Can you do the job or not? If somebody took you under their wing and taught you how to be an electrician, could you do it?

>> I could, yeah. >> All right. So, this kind of response here tells me that you just have to get back up on the horse and keep showing up. And you're going to have to deal with those demons, and we all have to deal with those demons. Uh you feel wounded. You feel less than. All of that. But, my friend, you can take control of this entire situation by getting a better paying job.

>> Yeah, so it's about smiling and uh raising your energy level about 200% >> Mhm. >> and going, "I can do this. I want this.

>> Mhm. >> Give me a put me in, coach. Give me a shot. >> Mhm.

>> I'm I'm going to be the best I'm going to be early for work every day. I'm going to leave or late for work every day. I'm going to be the guy that doesn't gripe about anything. I'm going to be the guy that you can get to do anything you need to do you want me sweep the floors, I'll get the floor sweep.

What do you need me to do? You put me in, coach. Give me a shot. And come at this thing with some energy rather than going, "Well, you know, I don't sound like Eeyore in the interview, man.

Just do it. Makes sense. >> Yeah, and I I here's the bottom line. The bottom line is you are correct. It is very difficult to walk the baby steps when your income is at the poverty level.

And so, I want you to think about what I'm going to do with my life. I'm 61. I don't want to be having this exact same problem when I'm I mean I'm 41. I don't have the same problem 20 years when I'm 61. And so, I want different problems. I want a tax problem because I make so stinking much money. That's a new problem. That's a good one.

It's a great problem. And so, um yeah, you know, let's I hate the government cuz I they take all my money cuz I make too much money. And um >> You've been reading my emails, Dave? >> Yeah.

Apparently, yeah. And uh or you've been reading mine. >> I don't know. But, yeah.

>> But, that that you know, that's the thing. You just got to figure out, okay, I'm going to choose my problems and I don't like the one I got, so I want a different problem. And so, I'm going to go stir up some stuff and I'm going to work like a crazy man and I'm going to work weekends and nights. And uh I'm going to raise my energy level and the way my voice sounds even is going to change.

The way you hold your shoulders changes. And all of that is a reflection of got a little swagger back again instead of slouching in uh to the interview. And uh because people are reading all of that. So, Javier, one of the things they tell us and Ken's got all this research and data on interviewing.

lot of job interviews are decided before

the person opens their mouth.

How you walk into the room, how you're dressed, the way you carry yourself,

the way you smile or don't, and you just sit down. And um the you know, cuz the interviewer subconsciously so many times goes, "I wouldn't want to work with this person." Before they even open their mouth.

And so, in 30 or 45 seconds, that's the data, right? >> correct. And understand this, too, about >> about swagger. >> It is. Because they are making a decision not on your ability to just do the electrical work or the plumbing work or the carpentry work. They're making the decision on how are you going to interact with their customers?

>> And and with your team. >> That's right. And so if they feel like you are Eeyore as Dave has so prophetically said here about so many people we get calls from. And we're not judging anybody, we're just we can feel your energy through the phone. Imagine what you're presenting like when you're sitting in front of somebody. And so the issue here is is when you're in a trade, here's what you're looking for. A little bit of enthusiasm, a whole bunch of

hunger. All right? And then the willingness to show up. They know they need to know that they can count on you.

>> You ever look into somebody's eyes and don't see a light?

Like nobody's home and nobody's even coming up the driveway.

I mean, there's no light in there. I'm not saying that's you. I'm just saying that's one end of the spectrum when you're interviewing someone. The other end of the spectrum is their eyes are sparkling.

And there's there's a smile and they took a bath this morning before they came to the interview and they took to tucked in their shirt and they didn't wear clothing like they were trying to get in a punk rock band.

Instead, they came like they were trying to get a job. And you know, I mean, this is basic stuff. And and you're not into we we the we people when we go to get people to do business with us in an interview or in a sales situation, we're not entitled to anything.

And and so you've got to think about everything all the variables that are affecting this and then um

the the last part is then in turn with the frequency of your rejections.

>> Yes. >> And so I you know, I think you've been rejected about twice. I want you to be rejected 26,000 times and by then you

will have landed a degree in um in in the medical field or something. I don't know. I mean, you know, you just you got to get back at it. You got to get back after it and keep turning over the rocks.

Keep turning over the rocks. Something will run out. But if you don't turn over a rock, you go, "I once turned over a rock and I got bit. I'm not turning over any more." Yeah, you got to go do it.

>> Yeah. >> It's your only option. Otherwise, you're going to if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. Everybody's It's true of everybody.

So we're just talking to the whole audience right now, Javier, but you're you're getting caught up in that net. So, I got I got faith in you.

>> And one other thing I'd add, because you are employed now and you are doing something with your hands and with your head, what else can you do in San Antonio right now as a

second or maybe third job? Let's not wait until we get the better full-time job. Let's go work a second or third job with that transferable skill and experience because if you were to just double your income an additional $2,000

a month net, that's a game-changer for you. So, don't wait on the full-time job. Go work two and three jobs doing anything you can related to what you know you can do now. That's a huge bridge, by the way. Keep your confidence up. It'll get you some financial momentum until we land that 25, 30, $35,

$40 an hour gig.

>> Yeah. So, that's a good message for everybody when you're in baby step one and two. You turn up the energy.

>> Yeah. >> You you turn up the activity level. You turn up the number of hours and working.

>> Mhm. >> And what'll happen then is you'll start to see get some actual success which will give you some actual swagger and confidence.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Front Row Seat. If you hadn't checked it out on Ramsey Networks, you should. He's my co-host. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jared is in Las Vegas, Nevada. Hey Jared, what's up?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I got a quick question for you. I'm in the middle of a high-conflict divorce. We recently sold our marital house. We're 16,000 left in the escrow account.

Uh in the pending process, I'm getting 17, my ex is getting 17. I'm out of money currently. I'm waiting for these further funds to come into my account.

I'm 17,000 or 7,000 in debt from legal

fees, and I no longer have legal counsel for the time being. So, my question is, should I use the remainder of my funds to hire a lawyer and pay off my debt, or should I progress to baby steps and represent myself in court and hope for the best?

>> Uh well, there's nothing to represent. I mean, there's 17 and 17 is already divided. What else is the conflict?

Kids? >> Child custody. Yeah, yes, sir.

>> Okay. Well, you're probably going to lose that if you don't get good representation.

>> I've already the non-custodial parent from temporary orders, so I don't know what else I have to lose.

>> And you don't think that's going to change in court?

>> I don't think so, no, sir.

>> Okay. So, if you're resigned to that, what is there to lose in court?

>> Nothing, just 17,000.

>> Well, no, you're not I mean, that's already determined and split up, isn't it? >> Um it's being paid into So, there was a total 52,000.

Uh we signed an agreement from temporary orders. She got 17, I got 17.

>> Yeah. >> And there's 15 left in the escrow account. >> Okay.

And what's what's supposed to happen?

Does temporary order dictate what happens that escrow account?

>> Um no, the what's left in I mean, yes,

but what's left in the 15 is going to be talked about in our final hearing. Uh it's not scheduled yet.

>> Okay, so you could lose that.

>> Yeah. >> Your half of that.

>> I mean, let's say half of that is yours and half of that's hers, hypothetically.

And if you lost, you would have lost half of that. So, it's $7,000 $7,500 on

the line. Does that sound right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Well, attorney's going to cost you that much.

>> Right. >> Um I don't ever like going into a situation not represented by good, strong counsel.

Um >> Uh-huh. but it sounds like this thing's already run its course and you just need a judge to put a stamp on it.

>> To finalize it. We still need We're separated, but we still need to finalize the divorce. Um I just kind of need >> Is the divorce not filed?

>> Uh it's filed, but we're in the limbo

process with the courts.

>> So, is there a waiting period from filing till declaration and that's what you're calling the limbo period in Nevada?

>> Uh yes, sir. >> Okay. And so, there's a mandatory 90-day cooling down period or something like that.

>> Yeah, I don't know the exact terminology. I do know that we're still legally married, but we have to uh

either go to mediation again or we have to go to trial and then and then the judge will sign the final decree.

>> Yeah.

Okay. Uh So, what would happen if you called her lawyer and said let's go to mediation and wrap this 15 up and come to agreement on everything and sign off and get the judge to sign it?

>> Um I've tried that twice already and

it's resulted in uh failure both times and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees with mediators and attorneys.

>> Yeah, but now we're down to only $15,000 to argue about, right?

>> Financially speaking, yes, but the biggest dispute is child custody.

>> I thought you weren't disputing it. I thought you had said I'm going to lose it.

>> Um >> If you want to fight it, you need a lawyer.

>> Yes, sir.

>> You're going to lose if you don't have a lawyer on child custody. 100% chance.

Yeah, you're going to spend you know, so it's not spending money to get money, it's spending money for my to get access to my own children.

And that's that's money you spend for sure. You'll regret not doing that. Um I

wish I had I wish I'd dropped another five grand or 10 grand in that. Instead of advanced my debt snowball. But if you don't have anything to fight about, if you're saying like look, 90% chance the ruling that's standing now non-custodial is the way it's going to be, I'm going to lose. Then you've already acquiesced that and there's no sense in in paying paying somebody 10 grand to do what you know is already going to happen.

But yeah, I'm going to hire a lawyer if I got a shot at changing the disposition

of the children, for sure.

For sure.

And um But yeah, what you're learning is is divorce and in most cases other than divorce, the lawyers are the only ones that win lawsuits.

And so um And everybody thinks they're going to get something out of these things and they don't. Uh-huh, so it's just it's

kind of ridiculous, but my goodness gracious. I'm sorry.

Sorry you're facing that, but yeah, I if you want to fight about the kids, then you need legal representation.

Otherwise, with what you've described, there's not not enough on the line to cover the attorney's fees. So, I mean, I would call the guy I would just call the attorney up and go, "Hey listen, if I accept the child custody the way it is and we split the we agree to split the 15K, do we have a deal?" That's your mediation. And just call the guy on the phone and do that deal.

But if you're going to fight the kid thing, then you need representation.

So. That's just a practical thing. It's not a legal that's not legal advice. That's just a guy who's dealt with lawyers more than I ever want to wish I had never met one.

Uh Jack is in Miami. Jack, how are you?

>> I am doing better than I deserve, Dave and Kennedy. It's such an honor to get to talk to you guys this afternoon. >> You too. What's up?

>> Okay, so I am a teacher and I just found

out this week I am getting laid off once this summer ends.

Um me and my wife were recently debt-free. We have uh debt-free in the house, have a nice retirement over 800.

And we're building an online radio station. My question is uh she's still working at out of the house. She makes about 75. I made about 65. So we're losing that income. Do I go

full force into building our online radio station or >> Have you made any money at it?

>> Um I've made Well, we started November.

I made about uh 2,500

so far cuz obviously we sell advertising. That's how people That's how we make money. >> Yeah. I've heard I've heard the rumor.

Yeah. >> What kind of radio is it?

>> It's um a country music station playing We play like today's hits, all-time favorites.

And >> need the 60 How much of the 65 that you've been making do you absolutely need to have?

All of it or some of it? >> Well, I mean I mean if we stayed on a tight budget, I we could live off of her income.

>> Well, you're you're going to be on a tight budget. >> Yeah. I wouldn't put my eggs in that basket. >> No, I think I would figure out what I want to do with my life um in addition to this and because this right now is a hobby. It's not made money yet. And you're in a highly competitive field where everybody that's breathing has a podcast now.

And so it's not like there's not like there's a lot of choices out there. There's like a bazillion choices out there. So um not against you trying this, but I'm against you leaning on it when it's unproven.

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Chris is with us in Atlantic City. Hi Chris, how are you?

>> I'm fine. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right, I have uh I guess like a philosophical will question for you.

Um I'm not married, have no kids. I'm

probably not going to get married, probably not going to have any kids. Uh right now my will is set up to give all my stuff to my two nieces, my sister's kids.

And I've been thinking about it and uh

it turns out that there's probably going to be like four people off in the family, all finally their money to these two girls. And each person's going to have probably several million dollars.

And uh I've been thinking about maybe bypassing changing my will to not give it to them, maybe give it to a local charity instead.

But I know that my family's just going to look at it from purely an emotional point of view and be like, "How dare you not give it to the family?" And I thought I'd get a few viewpoints from like money people. To see what you guys think.

>> Mhm.

Well, there's not a morally or spiritually wrong answer

between the two things. You could do either one. It's the money that God has entrusted you to manage and you as you can give it where you see fit or not give it where you see fit. I would not let the family's emotions be my motivator. I would just say, "Okay, what is the right thing to do

in your heart of hearts uh regardless of someone's feelings,

okay? What's the proper thing on principle to do with this?" And it sounds like that's guiding you uh to at least limit how much goes to the nieces. Um how how old are you?

>> I'm 46. They are 7 and 11.

>> Okay. All right.

Because the answer for me, if I'm you, might change over time.

Okay, let me give you an example, okay?

Let's say they get married and they each

have three kids. Now there's six kids one generation down from them.

Um and this and and they're a wonderful family that's contributing to society.

They're not a bunch of entitled screwed up people, right?

Uh then at that at that point you're 66 or 76, you might change it back to give

to that way. So this could this could evolve. And I'm not saying you had to.

I'm just giving ideas, all right? Um but uh and of course you also could do both.

Because you're 46 and you've got how much now? How many millions now?

>> Uh I've got 1.5 now.

>> Okay. Yeah, and so so you'll be dealing with 15 million when you're 70.

>> Yeah. >> And so assuming you keep on the track you're on, and I think you will. You sound like somebody's going to do that. You've done a great job so far.

Congratulations.

Uh and so you could say I'm going to leave this much to this charity, this much to this charity, and this much to the nieces or the great nieces and so forth.

And and so or it might be that you're heavily involved with one of them and the rest of them don't even know your name. Um then you can do that. I mean you you you can do whatever you want to do.

Um and then um you know, at that point uh if you were ill or whatever, at that point I would let someone in the family know. But I'm not really going to have emotional discussions with a bunch of people who really don't have a say in this. And and you know, and we're not unless you're ill today, I'm not going to fret about having a big long discussion.

I generally tell people, you know, if you're going to make somebody mad with your will, go ahead and tell them while you're alive. That's that's a fine thing to do. In this case, I don't know why you would bother to stir it up. It's just none of their business.

>> Well, I I don't think any of them are like a a wrong decision. I just think it would make more impact because my money would just be thrown in a pile of other money in the end.

>> Well, I I would challenge that idea of impact because if you drop 15 million

into the pile of money with other millions, and these uh young people by then are not young people, they have been trained and they're high-quality people, uh they'll leverage that for more impact than a charity might.

>> Well, and I'm I'm kind of questioning their money managing abilities when they grow up cuz they're probably going to be getting it from their mother who is not too good at it. >> Well, I don't know. I mean, we we they're seven. I don't know that yet.

But um so, you can do that, too. That that's okay. None of this is wrong.

Um you know, so you can decide what you want to do, and uh but I would I would be open to two things. I'd be open to changing it as it evolves, and I would be open to um

it not necessarily being all or nothing.

That there could be some of each.

And uh just kind of mix that in, and that's just gives you a lot of it gives you a lot of freedom to think about this and not fret about this.

>> Yeah. I I'm not really fretting about it. >> if you said, "I'm going to put it all in their name today," and then the 12-year-old gets into drugs, you know, then I'm and I'm all or nothing, then I'm going to be fretting about it cuz I got to move it back out.

I got to change it back.

>> Yeah, I I think there's something going on in your gut, you know, that's led you to this phone call. I I just think before you even choose a charity, I think you need to get involved in some causes, get really intimately involved to where you know how those organizations are run, you know, not just because oh, it's a good cause, you know, and it's not going to my nieces who don't need it like it There needs to be a pretty strong why, in my opinion. Now again, there's nothing wrong. Dave said it well.

>> Yeah. And uh to assume that a godly family managing God's money in a godly way has less impact than a charity is an incorrect assumption.

As a matter of fact, the family will do a much higher impact than a charity because there's no overhead.

Matt is with us in Buffalo. Hi, Matt.

How are you?

>> I'm better than I deserve, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh um so, I make between about 70 90 uh

thousand a year uh depending on my bonus yearly. I have about $14,000 in credit card debt with a across two different credit cards. Um approximately 14,000 in student loan debt. Um so, I guess my question is I have about $20,000 liquid right now. Um my question

is should I just pay off the credit cards in a lump sum um knowing that that's probably going to tank my credit score. Um I'm trying to buy a house within the next year.

>> Okay. Um can you be completely debt free if you write all those checks?

Credit cards and everything?

>> So, it would be No, not entirely. I would still have the student loan um at least a portion of it and then my car payment, which is not really much. >> Okay. All right. Well, number one, we would tell you to be debt free and have an emergency fund before of 3 to 6 months of expenses before you talk about buying a house. So, that means you're not buying a house in the next year.

>> Okay. >> And that's means it's going to take 2 years. So, what I would do is become completely debt free as fast as I possibly can.

Zero activity of any kind on your credit

for 6 months to a year will give you a zero credit score and you can do manual underwriting with Churchill Mortgage and you'll get the same rate as you would get if you had an 800 score.

But right now you're broke and in debt.

Right now you're broke and in debt and your credit score is what puts you there. >> Yeah, I'm sitting around like a a 690 right now, so not too great.

>> No, it's well because you're deeply in debt, you have no money and you know, you you've not been doing a good job with your money. And now you're starting to. So, congratulations.

>> Yeah. >> But yeah, I'm cutting up all the credit cards and I'm going to list my debts smallest to largest. I'm going to use 19,000 of the 20,000 towards that goal and then I'm going to be on the beans and rice, rice and beans budget. I'm going to clear up the rest of these debts immediately and then I'm going to start stacking cash for my emergency fund and stacking cash for my down payment.

determinable is what they call it, an ND. Which is what mine has been for 38

years.

>> It's lots of dumb decisions from when I was a kid that >> Yeah. >> know, been catching up to me now.

>> And and so let's not let's not worship at the altar of the great FICO in order to do something like buy a house before you're ready to buy a house. So, let's just get this stuff in the right order and this things take care of themselves would be the right way to flow this out.

And so, folks you need to remember that there's one way you get a credit score and that's borrow money. There's one reason to get a credit score and that's borrow money. And so, what have we been taught? All of America's been taught, go get a debt so that you can go get a debt so that your credit score will go up so that you can go get a debt so that your credit score will go up so that you can go get a debt so that your credit score will That's all this is for.

Does it sound like a dog chasing its tail to me? It does to you.

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One of our favorite things is when people share their stories of how they are winning. Fan quote just came in.

Dave, I love this EveryDollar app. It makes it super easy to budget with my husband. We've implemented this practice since our wedding day. We've had zero money fights because there's full transparency. We are on the same page and winning. Hey, I love that. You can do this too, folks. You can take control of your money, change your family tree, live like no one else, work the Ramsey plan.

We'll coach you along the way. It's all built in to EveryDollar. Download EveryDollar in the App Store or Google Play. Jennifer is in Anaheim, California. Hi, Jennifer. How are you?

>> Hi, very good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Well, um I'm kind of wondering if I should

um consolidate my federal student loans into this one payment, and then also refinance my auto loan. Um I have a really high interest rate cuz I've been living paycheck to paycheck forever. And then I recently in uh January just got a raise and practically doubled my salary. So now I have a lot more >> That's awesome. What do you make now?

>> Um 117,000 a year.

>> Awesomeness. How much do you owe on this stupid car?

>> 8,000. >> Well, that's not bad. Knock it out. Just pay it off. >> No.

>> You make a hundred thousand dollars.

Just pay it off.

>> Yeah, that's yeah, true.

>> No, really. Not yeah, really do it.

>> Okay. >> So I mean like I mean why wouldn't you have the money if you just doubled your pay? Why wouldn't you have the money in a month and a half, two months to pay that car off?

>> Well, my current I'm sharing an apartment right now. My current you know, cuz I had to save on rent. My current rent >> in July.

>> Okay. >> again? >> So stay in that situation till you get out of debt.

>> Well, I would have to stay here another year, and I really don't want to sh- I want to move into my own place. My own place would only be >> Yeah, you also want to be out of debt and quit being broke.

>> True. >> Which one do you want more?

I'm staying in there for another year.

>> Hm. >> Pay pay that car in two months. And what was the other debt? Your student loans you're trying to How much do you have in student loans?

>> 55,000. >> Awesome. So, you could be like debt-free completely in like 15 or 16 months if you stayed another year in that situation.

You pay off the car and the student loans.

And then the interest rate really doesn't matter.

>> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's true.

>> Live on nothing. Beans and rice, rice and beans. Don't go out to eat. Don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there. Don't go on vacation. Work all the time. Live for one thing for 14 months, and that is to take all 100% of your raise and put it

on these debts, and you'll be debt-free in 14 months.

>> Yeah. Okay.

>> That math works. It works a lot better than trying to refinance your way out of debt, which doesn't work.

>> Right. Right.

>> What's the interest rate on your federal student loans?

>> Um like about 2%.

>> Well, refinancing's not going to be a good idea cuz you're going to get a current rate, which is going to be a lot more.

>> Well, yeah, I I I kind of just wanted to get a consolidation. >> I know if you consolidate it if you consolidate it, it raises the rate.

Cuz you're refinancing. There is no consolidation on federal student loans. There's only refinancing.

And you get You get to do that one time, and you do it at prevailing rates. And in your case, it's going to increase the rates. So, the fact that you have four student loans or eight student loans versus one that total up to 55 does not change that we just need to pay off 55.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> And so, And you got a great interest rate on that. So, yeah, let's that Let's just leave that alone. And how many different loans are there?

>> Uh unfortunately, there's like 13.

>> Perfect. No, that's really good. I like that. So, and the car interest rate's like crazy, right?

>> It's 23%. >> Oh my gosh. All right. So, what what what we normally teach is to list your debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one, and that would be listing your 13 student loans out, and then you probably your car is going to be your largest debt, and that would make it last.

I'm probably going to flip that in this case.

And then list your 13 smallest to largest. What's your smallest one?

>> Uh yeah, I did that actually. I use your EveryDollar app, so I actually listed them all in that. My smallest one um is

uh like $1,000. >> Yeah, so see that's going to be gone.

>> Right. >> It's like a mosquito.

>> Mhm. >> Swat it. And then what's the next one?

>> Um it is

like 1,500. And then they kind of go up a little bit. My my Yeah, my largest my largest one um I I think is like 9,000.

>> Yeah, okay. Yeah, I'm going to go at Can you knock that car out in 2 months if you do nothing but the car?

4,000 a month? >> I Yes. >> Okay. If you can do that, then let's do that, and then let's list these others.

And you're going to get so much emotional momentum A getting rid of the 23%, and then B knocking off 1,000, 1,500, and they're just going to start They're just going to start And all of a sudden you're going to look up, and you're going to have like three left.

>> Mhm. >> Like by I bet you by I bet you by

I mean I I don't know the exact numbers here, but I'm going to give you an estimate. I would say by November you're going to have three left.

And that's going to make you feel like like you're large and in charge cuz you are. >> Mhm. >> Your confidence is going to go up. >> Exactly. And that's my only That's my only debt. I don't have credit cards. I don't have anything else. That's my only debt. >> What is your car payment?

>> It's 318 a month. >> All right, 318 a month and then how much are you saving by staying with that roommate not going out on your own?

>> A thousand dollars a month. >> Yeah. >> So that's $1,300. I just want to leave you with that number as to why you need to wait 12 more months. When you start to get gripy and I understand it not wanting to live with somebody, but you're you're hanging on for 12 more months, but you're doing it for a $1,300

raise cuz you're going to knock out that that car so quickly. Now all of a sudden you're attacking all this. You need to have that mindset.

>> Yeah, so that decision alone pays off the first two car first two student loans that month. >> That's right. >> Yes. Yeah, true.

>> That's that's why we went there so fast.

>> Mhm. >> And because because we've ridden this truck before. Okay. So and the thing I

wanted you to do is what I did when I looked when I was cleaning up my mess many many many many moons ago, I kept looking at something stupid I had done or a situation I'd put myself in and I used it not as shame or guilt, but as motivation. I It pissed me off.

I got mad. >> Mhm. >> And I want you to look at that 23% that time that you got yourself in a pinch and you got screwed on a car. >> Yes. >> And you let it happen. And I want you to get mad at that. So mad that 14 months

from now your your friends are going to think you joined a cult cuz all you do is get out of debt.

>> Yes, the Ramsey cult. I love it.

>> Yeah. And I want you to win. Cuz here's the thing, that's only a year and some change and your whole life is going to be different after that. Cuz you're resetting all these grooves in your brain. All the neuroplasticity is resetting. And so you're never going to be the same again. It's not only you're not only who the fact that you get out of debt, it's who you become during this 14 months

that's different than the you version that bought the 23% car.

And that person's dead and gone.

And now there's a new version of you that's going forward, and I'm so proud of you. And we're going to help you. You're on the EveryDollar app. We'll send you a copy Total Money Makeover, and you call us back if you get tired and you get down, we'll we'll jack you up and pump you up again cuz I think you got the stuff, kiddo.

I think you're going to knock this thing out.

>> Yeah, there's no question. I'm sitting here listening, and I'm just thinking of the momentum theorem. And I'm going to tee you up to give it to people who are new cuz there's a lot of new people joining all the time. >> We're going to send her a copy of the book. >> That's great. >> Okay, we'll send her a copy. The momentum theorem is focused intensity FI over time, over T. FI over time.

FI over T, focused intensity over time multiplied by large G, God and his

blessings. When you're faithful in the little things, he'll give you more to manage.

>> Yeah. >> He will not give you more to manage when you're disorganized, unwilling to sacrifice, and unwilling to hard work hard. It's in the scriptures.

It's very clear. Focused intensity over time multiplied by God equals unstoppable

momentum.

>> Danny is in Minneapolis. Hi Danny, how are you? >> Good, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I was calling because my 15-year-old son and I have had a debate and of course we need Dave Ramsey show to settle it. Um so, my son Grady um turned 16 in July

and he is adamant that he wants to go get a full-time job at our local hardware store the second the day he turned 16 and I on the other hand have said, "Listen buddy, you are going to be working for the next 50 years of your life. Let's just have one more summer where you can be carefree." What is the right answer and I have a feeling I know the answer already.

>> Uh it Where's Where's his dad?

>> Um his dad is around. He He Yeah, his

dad's here. Yeah. >> You're You're married?

>> Yep. Yep, of course. >> Okay. And what's his dad say?

>> Um his dad says he sees it both ways, which I think is his politically um appropriate term to not make his wife mad at him. >> Oh. >> Exactly. I can tell you exactly that's what's going on. All right. Let the kid work, Mom. Back off.

>> I disagree. I would I think the I think the answer is both. >> Oh. Okay. >> I think he works some.

>> Okay. >> Maybe more than you want him to, but less than he wants to.

Full-time is different. I don't know if he needs to work 40 hours a week at 16 years old, but if he works 3 days a week or 4 days a week at the hardware store and learns to have customer interactions and learns to have a boss and that might not be reasonable and learns to count the appropriate amount of screws in a bin and whatever else he's going to be doing at the hardware store, right? And yeah, I I think work is always good.

Teach your kids to do hard things.

>> Yep, absolutely. And that's something that I think that Okay, I had him sorry.

>> No, I I I don't want to beat a dead horse. It's one of the few times I I I I actually disagree. I think if a kid wants to work, let him work. And and you

you've given your opinion. I don't think that your opinion is wrong, but I think that at this stage, if this young man is saying, "I want to go work," he's got his reasons. And I'd let him do it. And if he finds that >> Well, why why what is what is motivating him?

>> So, that's what he just really wants to work at this this hardware store in town. It's It's really funny and I should have started with this, but like currently for the last probably three, maybe four summers he has worked till like the end of the summer for a local farmer where he goes out and works, you know, three, four hours a day and then he goes to the the little lady down the street and mows her lawn for 20 bucks and a bag of cookies. And I mean, he's always doing things like that.

>> Yeah, but why does he want to work full-time at the hardware store?

>> Uh I think he just thinks it's going to be a cool job. >> Okay. He thinks he he he looks at this as a as a way to make some money and he he and he thinks it's going to be fun.

>> Yep, and he's really good about saving money. He doesn't buy like he doesn't care about name brands. He doesn't, you know, I've always I've always said that

his job is to be a kid and like he is a three-sport athlete. He is on the honor roll. Um he's just a really good kid all around. >> does him working at the hardware store keep any of that really from happening?

>> Uh see, that's what I worry about is I think >> No, I'm not No, don't worry about it. Think about it.

>> Yeah. >> Doesn't really keep any of that from happening. >> It doesn't, no. He would be really good with >> has Here's what I'm hearing. He's Now I'm even more entrenched in my opinion, which is right.

He Listen, this kid has self-selected

throughout his life. I know people like this. >> I'm a nerd like that. >> He likes to work. He likes to be busy.

>> I've always liked to work like that. >> the same way and I I will just say that um I I don't think you're going to change this. In fact, I think you have a little bit of fear in this because you've watched this young man be really serious compared to most kids his age his whole life. And I think you wonder, is he ever going to stop to smell the roses? And I think what you may be missing, Mom, and you're amazing by the way.

>> I love this discussion. This is a great discussion. >> I think that this kid is smelling the roses. He He's on the farm working 3 to 4 hours

a day while being a three three sports stud and crushing it in his academics.

He's got a different motor than most people. And I'm sitting next to a guy who I have actually vacationed with and he's going he's going non-stop. I was at his lake house one time and I was exhausting watching Dave relax.

And And And by the way, his family will tell you and I say that with love, but it's true. He's got a motor that most

people don't have. I could name two or three other well-named men, I won't, who I've worked for that have the same motor. And all I'm saying is I think you're a good mom, but I think your son has got his own motor and in this case he's not doing anything that is anyway suppressing his desire. I think he's fulfilling his desire.

I think this guy's going to be a multi-millionaire entrepreneur and provide jobs and I'd say let him go, Mom. And if when he gets to be saying, "I think I'm working too much." Then you come in and say, "Well, buddy, you're only 16." Why don't you do something fun for 2 weeks? You know, I I just think this kid's wired differently and that's why I said what I said. >> He gets great joy from this.

That's what we're hearing. >> Oh, it's so obvious.

>> He's helping the farmer for 3 to 4 hours, then he goes and helps the old lady cut her lawn for $20 and cookies.

This kid is wired to do stuff.

>> Yeah, he's a doer. He gets crap done.

So, I like him. Yeah. But, I I think he's I I I think what um Danny as someone that's similar, I get great joy from working. That's why I'm 65 years old. I'm a multimillionaire. I don't need to work and I come down here and do this cuz I get great joy from this.

>> He's got to sit next to me, folks. Only joy brings him into this.

>> Ken, you're just you're you're joy personified. >> But, the uh but I mean that that's the thing. You you do get joy from getting things done,

from traction, from accomplishment um more than I get joy of um

I I have never in my life gone to the beach and sat

in the on the chair. >> No. >> I just that does not bring me joy.

>> Oh, I know. >> Some people call that smelling the roses. I that's not roses I'm smelling.

So, I don't it's not not for me. I mean, it's okay if you want to. I'm not mad at you. You're not wrong, but I'm also not wrong because that's Yeah, I'm with you, Danny Ken on that. And And Danny, I I love that you're a great mom and you're concerned about his balance and mental health and all of that. Just make sure he's getting joy out of this and that he's not being driven by some demon.

If he's being driven by some kind of performance accomplishment demon or something, then yeah, I might I might back him off. I might put a bridle on that. But, if the kid just likes getting stuff done and he likes learning things and he likes engaging and he's got a like Ken said, he's got a big motor, I'd I'd I'd tune that motor up and let it run.

>> Mhm. >> That's what I would do. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, and by the way, great job, Mom and Dad. >> Yeah, it's just >> That doesn't happen by accident.

>> news is they're both sitting there talking about it and they're having a discussion and they're trying to look at life with a good lens and wisdom and I don't think there's any wrong actors in this discussion. Um it's just good healthy people and um yeah, it's I got to tell you I would rather hire him and have to talk him into slowing down than hiring some wet wood and trying to get it burning.

>> It's so true. >> I've hired some wet wood you can't get burning no matter how much gas you put on it. He's very employable for the rest of his dadgum life.

>> Well, he's going to employ a lot of people. Mark it down.

>> Yeah, he's not ever going to say take it easy and mean it.

>> It's so true. >> Oh, it's so fun. It's so fun. Yeah, we need more of him out there actually in this world. So it's a good thing. But yeah, it just needs to come from a place of health and a place of wisdom, a place of um

uh you know, today when Sharon and I vacation um you know, we special I don't want to be sitting in XYZ city around the world

and have missed it because I needed to sit there and rest.

I'm going to go out and >> Right. >> thing I came all the way over here to see this thing. Let's see it. >> That's right. >> So we're you know, so we're like wearing the tour guide out there exhausted, you know. So um but that you know, I didn't come over here for that. I could have stayed home if I wanted to rest.

>> me of our all-time favorite tour guide in Philadelphia. That poor guy couldn't breathe. We were walking so fast.

>> Philadelphia. >> Remember that guy? >> Yes, that guy. That was >> keep up with us. >> He's all-time worst tour guide we've ever had. >> Yeah, that's a story we can't share but boy it was a great memory. But you know

all-time all-time greatest. But you know, there's something to people parents if you've got a kid that's wired that way uh put some coals on that fire.

>> It's a thoroughbred. >> Let them go. >> It's a thoroughbred let them >> Let them go. >> Let them run. It's good. I love it.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ralph is in

Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey Ralph, what's up?

>> Uh thank you for taking my call, Dave.

>> Sure. What's How can we help?

>> Well, uh I'm trying to get to a million dollars before I croak.

Um I don't know anybody anything. Everything has been paid for. Um So, I'm I'm just trying to get some advice and how can I invest? I've got about 42,000 in a brokerage. I got about

40,000 in the bank. And I've got a 40,000 in emergency fund.

And I've got other things that have value. So, I'm just trying to figure out how I can get there. I watch your shows.

>> Mhm. >> And you talk about growth stock mutual funds. >> Mhm. >> But everything I look at's paying two and three and four percent. Not paying, you know, 10 or 11. So, I don't know. I need advice. >> Okay. Well, growth stock mutual funds aren't paying 2%. That would be

CDs and money market funds. That's how your savings and that kind of thing. So, uh other things that I own. Do you own a piece of real estate?

>> I own the house I'm living in, yeah.

>> Uh what's it worth? >> I would I have no I have no payments.

>> What what what's the home worth? >> What's it worth?

>> Well, this I had two estimates. One between 489 and 517.

>> Okay. So, let's call it we'll just round it, call it a half million dollars, okay? So, you're halfway there with that. >> Yeah. >> And how old are you? >> Yeah. 87. >> Okay. And what's your current income?

>> Uh I I get railroad retirement. I don't get social security. And that comes out to $39,000 a year. That's That's $3,245 a month. >> Okay. Are you living on that?

>> Oh, yeah. I I live about I take out about $600

a month and I live on that and then I I have some I sold rest to save in my checking. >> Mhm. >> And um

So, I got some bills I do have public credit cards. I do not I always pay off all the debt. I don't pay it I don't pay any interest. Uh and I have an IRA

that's worth like 96,314.

>> Mhm. >> Uh >> What is that invested in?

>> Uh right now it's in getting getting in cash. >> Okay. >> The IRA gives me about $560

a year a month.

>> But you don't need it.

>> Oh, I don't need it. No, it's just it's just growing. I just have to take out my my what I have to take out every year.

>> Okay. All right. So, between the 40, the

42, and the 96, that puts you I'll I'll just use round numbers. Let's call it $150,000, okay?

If $150,000 were invested

at around 10% as an example, here's how

the math works. It will double every 7

years. So, it would be 350 when you're 89 I'd be 300 when you're 89, and it would be 600 when you're 96.

That's if you add nothing to it and it were invested that way. What is the uh

need to have a million dollars before you die? What's the >> Well, I guess it's >> Just a goal to set or is there something going on or >> Yeah, just a goal. >> Okay. Okay.

>> You know, my wife has got >> the goal is then can I How can I better use my money to have the do the best possible job of managing God's money, then I think I can help you with that.

>> Well, my family's lived long lives.

>> Okay. You might make it then. All right.

Cool. It's just a math thing, right?

>> I have some other I I have some other stuff. I have about 30 3,000 in silver.

>> Okay. >> Okay, that I bought many years ago.

>> Okay. >> I collect old scale trains since I was a little boy and I went to work for the railroad. >> Mhm. >> I worked on the railroad. >> Mhm. >> And I figured that's worth about 25,000.

>> Have you got family?

>> I'm sorry? >> You have family?

>> Yes, I have three children, two boys and a girl. Or I should say two two adults and two one female adult. >> Okay. Right. And um do And do they have children?

>> Yes, I have six granddaughters out of the three of them. >> Okay. All right. There's no chance I'm selling those trains. They need to go to your grandkids.

Grandpa spent his life working on the railroad and grandpa has the best train collection in the world. They need to go to those kids. Not that those little girls are necessarily going to play with them, but they may want to leave them to their sons. That is a family heirloom, sir. You do not get rid of that.

>> Yeah. And I also um I have a a I have a truck and two cars.

The the truck is a 2000 Dodge and it'll be an antique here in probably the

2 years when it gets 25. Everybody likes

it and I'm trying to get 25,000 out of that. I have a Sonata that's a 15 that I

bought used and I have

a Corolla. >> Well, anything that you Anything on this whole list that you've given me that you don't want to keep around and you would rather have in investments, you could roll all of it into a simple mutual fund investment with a SmartVestor Pro and it would all the money would do better there than it'll do in silver, than it'll do in the checking account, than it'll do in the $96,000 sitting in cash. All of those

things are underperforming by at least 10% a year. But I'm not It's all It's okay if you don't do anything with it, Ralph, but you called and asked me how to maximize and so what I would tell you to do just go to ramseysolutions.com and get with a SmartVestor Pro, sit down with someone has the heart of a teacher, gently, carefully decide yourself what

you're comfortable with investing, which items you're and are you comfortable with liquidating and moving into a little bit slightly more

aggressive investment. And if if that's your goal and that's what you want to do, then you can do that with every one of those things and I personally I'm 65. I would personally

be very comfortable doing all of those things myself at 82.

Uh but I want you to be comfortable with it cuz it's you. And so you need to sit down with somebody and and walk through that and say, "Okay, now I want to keep my silver." Okay. I don't necessarily agree with that, but if you want to, it's okay. Or Dave, I want to keep that much in cash, extra cash. Okay, that's fine.

But you're making that decision then and every one of those things are earning 2%

instead of 10 or 12.

And and that's what you can do. But there's no great crisis in anything you're talking about. Other than I would strongly advise you to keep that train set.

>> I agree. My granddaddy also collected trains and and just gorgeous gorgeous.

My dad has it and I'm getting it eventually and it's it's special. I mean that stuff is so well handcrafted. I mean it's it's nice.

>> Yeah. >> Well, and the fact that he worked at the railroad. >> That's it's just part of the story.

>> It's one of the things. I mean I'm I'm getting old. I'm thinking about things like that that the grandkids it's not a dollar bill they need. It's they need to remember something. This is what the old man represented and this item reminds me

of that's what he did, how he did it.

And this man's Ralph has lived a great life. >> Fantastic. >> Way to go, Ralph. You did good, man.

And you're you know, you're you're able to eat on what your income is and and you you do anything you want to do. You got more cars than you have drivers.

Life's good, you know. >> off of $600 a month. And by the way, comfortably. He's not griping.

>> Didn't hear any I didn't hear any whining. None at all.

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can." It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Yrefi. If your private student loans are in default, that's a mess. But, Yrefi can help you clean it up. Yrefi helps borrowers refinance with

low, fixed-rate payments and a clear plan forward so you can clean things up and get back to making real progress. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter yrefi.com/ramsey.

Might not be in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Spencer in Alaska. We have our emergency fund in a high-yield savings account, but have a question about what to do with the accrued interest. Do we keep the interest in the account or would it be a better idea to take out just the interest accrued for the year and put it toward our mortgage? We have 65,000 in

the HYSA and that is plenty for our

6-month emergency fund.

>> Yeah, I've never heard that question before. I don't think there's any wrong thing by doing that.

I've never pulled that out. I just let it sit in ours.

>> Because it's not enough to worry about. >> It's not a whole bunch.

>> I mean, if it's making 3% it's 1,800 bucks.

I mean, 1,800 bucks is not changing either thing substantially.

65 + 1,800 is not much more and 1,800

towards your mortgage is nice, but uh I think Spencer's a nerd.

>> Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, um Yeah, I'm with you, Ken. I think either way is fine. There's not a right or wrong answer.

It wouldn't be something you slap your hand on the table and say you're under the stupid column if you did one and the smart column if you did the other. Um Uh yeah, I I have not touched mine. I'm just trying to think what I've actually done. I just never thought of it.

It's not enough money >> Right. >> uh percentage-wise in the situation to think about.

fund. >> Mhm. >> And if you're being real intense and really detailed about throwing everything at the mortgage, pulling that interest off and looking at it but throwing it at the mortgage is just fine. Um

Uh the other thing you could do is actually adjust the 65.

>> Mhm. >> That may be a little much. Um Uh you

know, 3 to 6 months you've got a 6-month emergency fund. So, that means you need uh what?

$10,500 a month to live on for 6 months?

That's a lot.

>> Yeah. >> It's a heavy It's a pretty heavy emergency fund. So, um yeah, I might back that down to 50.

And uh just I I I don't know why you've got $10,000 a month in expenses.

Uh that that's a little And if you're down to only the mortgage, you don't have any debt except the mortgage and it takes you $10,000 a month to live.

Really? Okay. I mean, Alaska's expensive, but I don't know. Anyway, think that part through, but yeah, I I I'd probably pull the money off cuz you're worried about it and just throw it at the debt and I might consider lowering the emergency fund and throw it at the uh at the debt as well. Get Get rid of that mortgage.

I'm with you, brother. Emily's in San Diego. Hi, Emily. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. I'm excited to be talking to you guys. >> You too. What's up?

>> Um so, basically, my question is would it be wise to consider moving

to another state due to the financial reasons?

>> Tell us more. Moving where for what reason? >> Um just like another state. Like I was looking at Iowa or like Oklahoma. Just somewhere where it's the cost of living is a lot cheaper.

Um but yeah, I do have a background a little bit, so >> that'd be helpful. >> Yeah. Basically, I was laid off from my job

last month and I was working part-time while I was while I'm in school to become a mental health counselor.

But and the job was in that field and I

didn't really like the job that much, so I basically, when I got laid off, kind of had an existential crisis where I am like

basically, my think I'm thinking about dropping out of the program and so and then so I can just work full-time. Um but it's really hard to find a job right now in San Diego, a full-time job.

I can probably find something part-time.

Um and I'm living with my dad right now.

I'm 32.

>> And and how are you paying the bills outside of the the this part-time job?

Who Who are you living with? What's What's going on there? >> Yeah, I live with my dad, so that's another reason why I'm like want to move out. Um I haven't lived with him for my whole Like I've lived outside I've lived on my own before, but I had some like

mental health issues that I was dealing with, so I had to move back home with him. >> Okay. So >> stable again. >> All right.

So let's go back to the future. So have you determined it sounds like you've determined you don't want to be in the mental health space as a professional. >> Yes. >> Okay.

It's great news because we've at least said, "Okay, we don't need to spend any more time in school, any more effort on that." So now we've got to we've got to take some time to get clear and we're going to help you with that.

get some independence so you're out of dad's house and we just can breathe, we can pay the bills to get us to a place where we can actually be clear and figure out our future. >> Yeah, if you got a job today in Oklahoma City, how would you get there? >> Yeah.

I would drive. >> I mean, you got money to get a rent a rent apartment?

>> Um so yeah, that's another thing. Like I have some student loan debt, but I do have about $15,000 saved.

>> Okay. So you've got some cash to make the move and get established in another market. Any idea what you want to do with your future?

>> Um I think I want to go into administrative work because I've done that in the past and I kind of liked it, so >> Great. >> I think that would be a good move. >> Okay. And so have you thought about or looked into what is the top of that world look like?

In other words, a job that's making the most amount of money you can make as an administrative person. That could either be project management as you move up the level, it could be an executive assistant for a a very high-end uh

executive where you're talking six figures. Have you mapped that out about what all I could do within administrative work?

>> Uh I've looked into a little bit, yeah.

>> Good. That's the rest of you you got a homework assignment to look at somebody like you who enjoys administrative work.

Let's just simplify it by they dot the eyes, they cross the tees, they get a lot of enjoyment out of execution, right? I get a checklist, it's clear, and then I get it done, and that really fires me up. So, with growth, experience, and skill acquisition over time, you can make six figures with that skill set and that enjoyment. So, you've got to start right now at 32, let me see

all the different paths out there in the grand world of jobs where I could go.

And you really got to do that now so that we go, "Okay, I I think that I could be very excited about. What does it look like to get qualified to move up?" And so, we get a plan. We don't just decide to go to Iowa or Oklahoma, right? >> Right.

>> Because that I think >> being willing to move to another state with a lower cost of living associated with a new job might be a very wise move. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> We need to be aiming at something a little bit more specific rather than let's run to something instead of from San Diego. >> Yes. >> Mhm. >> And leverage dad. Leverage dad right now for some safety so that I can A get some stability and pay off this student loan.

>> Yeah, for a short period of time. I mean, short But I would like for I would like for you to get to find something in another city >> Yeah, and move. >> next 2 weeks and move. >> Yeah, that'd be great. >> But I want you to move to something, not from something.

And if you don't have a job lined up and you just load up the car, you're what's known as homeless.

>> Right.

>> So, I don't want to do that. So, we need to, you know, I I I I I'm with you on the existential crisis and the reset. I think all of that sounds solid.

It sounds It sounds like you've really processed that through. I didn't I didn't hear anything there that gave me pause. Um I just want you to land on something that is very intentional. The power of intentionality.

And winning is not an accidental exercise. It's a series of intentional exercises. And so winning at your career, putting together a quality life, a sustainable situation, um in this case starts with an income.

>> Yeah. And hey, we want to give you so hang on the line. Chris is going to get you a copy of find the work you're wired to do. Comes with the get clear career assessment. Spend 20 minutes on the assessment and about an hour on the book and it's going to get you way further down the line so that you have some clarity of those options within that administrative detail space.

>> It's that time again, folks. Tax season is here. I know some of you would rather bury your head in the sand until April 15th than face your taxes. But here's a

better idea. If your tax situation is complicated, get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro today. That way they can

take the stress off your shoulders and once those tax forms come in and teach you how to keep your tax bill as low as possible. But don't wait. Ramsey trusted pros can book up fast. Go to ramseysolutions.com/taxpro

to find one who serves your area with excellence. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro.

>> Hey guys, have you ever wanted to see the person who's calling in on the show?

Just asking the question.

Would you like to be in the room when we answer it? Well, now's your chance. The Ramsey Show is going back on tour and going to be doing the Ramsey Show live. You experience live Q&A, crowd debates,

local debt-free scream, even raw confessions.

So, the team is going to be doing four of these. One in Charlotte, one in Denver, one in Phoenix, and one in Anaheim, all in April, just starting in just a few weeks. It's only about 300 seats per night. Last year we sold all of this out in about 3 days. If you want to come, there's a few seats left and you can still come. So, again, Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim.

Grab your tickets for The Ramsey Show live on tour.

ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes.

Jessica's in Rochester, New York. Hi Jessica, how are you?

>> I'm doing great, Mr. Ramsey.

Uh thank you so much for having me on the show. I can't really believe anyone's here right now. >> Well, we're glad you're here. How can we help? >> Thank you. Um so, I uh was blessed to

read your book um a year and so, in July, uh we got my

husband and I um got the EveryDollar app and it has completely changed our life.

Um when we actually calculated all our debt, we were almost half a million >> Oh. >> in debt. And uh we didn't even realize it. Like, our income is great uh and we didn't realize um like what was happening. So, um we have actually since July paid off $120,000 of debt. >> Good for you. >> So we're in really good shape.

I have a couple questions. Um, last year

we made 268,000.

>> Good for you. >> Um My husband and I both have full-time jobs and I actually work two full-time jobs and then I pick up hours at the hospital on the weekend.

And uh and we've been really gazelle intense. >> Yeah. >> I say thanks to live. >> Now the 500,000 did that include a mortgage or that was all non-mortgage debt?

>> No, that wasn't our mortgage. We had a home equity loan and then cars.

>> Our mortgage right now is 90,000.

>> Okay, and that's in that half a million.

>> Yes. >> So that's a baby step six. Okay, so you got 410,000 of which you've already paid off 150.

Way to go.

>> Yes, thank you. Yeah, we um I just had a

couple questions about the thing like I

I know I'm not supposed to, but I wanted to know if I can do a few things out of order. Um, so like right now we owe 6,000 dollars

in taxes cuz we didn't like account for how much money we were going to make.

>> Mhm. >> So we already have that in the bank. So we just have to file our taxes for that.

We have a home improvement loan that we're going to do next and then we have two car leases that we are uh just about

ready and then we're going to pay cash for the Ram Z cars.

>> Good.

>> So then once those leases are done, those will be cash. >> Good.

>> But then we have a 100,000 dollar home equity loan. >> Mhm. >> And I know I've talked I listened to some of you all have talked about sometimes you can put the home equity in with the mortgage at step six.

>> Mhm. >> Um, our home equity loan when we did that last year, we actually did it for like a 5-year plan um cuz I wanted to be I wanted to get the best interest rate and I wanted it to be done as quickly as possible.

So, we're already a year into that.

Um so, I wasn't sure if I could kind of wait uh to then be able to save up our

savings instead of attacking the 100,000 in home

equity. Um or not. That's like my first question.

>> So, your household income is 268. We always say if the home equity loan is less than half your annual income, it ought to be in baby step two. So, but your 268 includes working three jobs.

>> Yes, I work well, I have technically I have four jobs. >> I know, but I'm saying technically your 268 is not your real income. This is a temporary spike because you're working with gazelle intensity. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I mean, if we put your income at 200,000, then the home equity loan could roll to baby step six. And I think that's fairly safe. So, it's okay if you roll it to six. Here's the danger.

How old are you?

>> Uh my husband and I are 40.

>> Okay.

Does it feel like to you that COVID was yesterday? It feels like it to me.

>> Well, I work in health care, so I see >> Does it feel like emotionally that that 5-year period of time was yesterday?

That went really fast, didn't it?

>> Yep.

>> That's how fast a stupid home equity loan is going to go, too.

And it's going to come up and punch you in the face if you don't get rid of it.

>> Yes. >> 5 years is a heartbeat. That's my point.

>> Yes. >> So, you got to attack it as soon as you get that emergency fund done and y'all start putting 15% away into your retirement. You guys are going to have to lean on that stinking home equity loan cuz that 5 years is going to come up and bite you in the butt.

>> Yes, agreed.

>> And I don't want you to lose your house because of this discussion.

Um I'm sorry, what was the question?

>> I don't want you to lose your house because of this discussion.

>> Oh, no. No, we won't. >> Well, I don't know. No, no. I lost my job and the home equity loan came due and we didn't have it paid off, Dave. So, I got foreclosed on.

>> Well, we're great I'm grateful that we're actually paying like the home equity our monthly payment will be done in five uh years. >> All right. That helps. Okay. >> We're not like waiting to pay on that.

We're paying that every month as part of our baby step two. >> All right. So, it's not got it's not got a balloon or call on it.

It's going to It's going to amortize. It's not got a balloon or a call. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> That helps, but you see my point. I don't want this to sneak up on you. If you move it to baby step six, still be worried about it.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Be be be attentive.

>> Okay, I will. Don't worry. I actually I already told my husband we should just pay it off within another year.

>> I'm okay with that, too.

>> And just because the Valentine's to just pay off both and then be completely done

is kind of their goal. >> Yeah. >> Um so, if we have time, do I have questions about a public loan forgiveness? >> I wouldn't bother with it.

You You make a lot of money. You're great at what you do. Just clean up your stinking debt. You You You've done a great job. Don't sit around waiting on the government to fix your life. The The public loan forgiveness is so full of holes, so many problems. Um it's it's

political in nature more than it is practical. And I just wouldn't screw with it. I I would I would just say I've made this debt. I'm getting out of this debt. And, you know, you're already working 63 positions. You know how to clear debt.

I wouldn't be sitting around worrying about that for 30 seconds. Well, let's just get it done. Just get her done. You are doing so good. Ride the horse. Ride the horse. You're doing great. Just stay on. You're right. I mean this thing is running so fast it's scaring you. And just ride it. Don't don't look for a Don't look for a shortcut. There's not one. Get it. Keep punching it in the nose over and over and over again.

She's going to do it again. Well, there's a question because this is what we talk about when we do debt-free screams and you hear us ask people what was it like when you had to kick in the momentum and when you've paid off this kind of debt in such a short amount of time and now she's working her absolute tail off. Uh that is somebody you know

is going to finish the race cuz she's been doing this long enough to to had some nights where she's probably just cried out of exhaustion or wondered why am I doing this and she keeps showing up. That's the sign that someone like her, her husband, they're going to get there cuz this is hard. That's hard to work that many that many hours a week. I don't care what the work is. >> You're tired. >> Yeah. You just get tired.

>> Yeah. >> But the only and the only thing driving you is the is the progress and the traction. >> That's right. >> And the reward is that that we're making so much, you know, I can look back and go that much is gone. That much is gone.

So that tells me there's a light at the end of the tunnel. There's not an oncoming train and then I can just push on the gas pedal one more time and go again and go again and go again. But it's hard. It's hard. It's just not as hard as being broke your whole freaking life cuz you didn't do it. >> Yeah. >> I mean mediocre is really hard, too.

Average is really hard. Normal sucks.

You don't want to be normal. You want to bust whatever you got to bust to get out of normal. And and that's what, you know, that's what everything we teach is about that.

You know, don't be normal.

The Bible says be not conformed to this world. Don't be normal. Be transformed

by the renewing of your mind.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture today, Matthew 6:20 and 21. Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Tom Snyder said, "Misers are no fun to live with, but they make great ancestors."

That's pretty funny. >> That is good. >> I have not heard that one.

Mark is with us in Seattle. Hey Mark, how are you?

>> Hey, doing well. How about you guys?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Yeah, I'm just wondering if you think is there a good reason to consider getting term life insurance as a single person or is it just better to wait until if I'm eventually married?

>> Better to wait.

>> Better to wait. >> Yeah, the only reason you would need term life insurance is if you're going to leave something that's a burden to someone you love.

And so if you're single and

you signed a $25,000 car note with your dad

and you died, he'd be stuck with that car note, then you would want to get a life insurance. Or if you're single and you don't have any money saved and your sister's got to pay for you to be buried, well, you might want to get a little life insurance. But I'm guessing, just

listening to you for a second, you probably have enough to bury you.

>> Yeah, and I also have some life insurance through my employer, so >> Yeah, you're fine. >> I was thinking, yeah, okay. Yeah, I figured since I don't have any real dependents, it may not be necessary at this point in my life. >> It's not. How old are you? 25?

>> No, 36. >> 36. Okay, wow. Okay.

And yeah, you just you're you're exactly right. Yeah, you just need enough to to clean up whatever mess you're going to leave behind. And as, you know, we we don't we don't want to call wife and kids a mess, but that's a mess you're going to leave behind, right? And and it would be a bigger mess, and so yeah, you'd need life insurance then.

But what you've got through work would your your mom or dad or your sister or whoever could take it and clean up your affairs without being a financial burden on them. >> Mhm. >> And so you're just fine. And you've probably got a little in a 401k or you got a little money in a checking account or say, you know, maybe you got your emergency fund in place, and so you're just fine.

Well done. John Paul's in Topeka, Kansas.

>> I'm doing great. How are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Hey, first off, I just wanted to say real quick and then I'll get straight to my point. Ken and Dave, you guys are both amazing. I've been listening to your podcast for a while now, since I was 16. Um, and then every day for the past couple months. Love listening to you guys, love all the insight. So, first and foremost, thanks for taking my call.

>> Thank you.

>> I have I have two questions, but Dave just answered one of them, I think, 10 minutes ago on the phone with somebody else. Um, basically, my wife and I, uh, we just bought a house.

This is our first one.

And this is also the first debt either of us has is ever getting into.

>> Wow. >> So, my my question is, yeah, um, we bought the house for $215,000.

It's a very sturdy neighborhood. It's a good house. It's solid. We had a lot of help from my wife's grandfather. He's a realtor. And so, that's been a huge blessing. We're just good spot right now. We, uh, we put 10% down. And then,

right after, um, we had signed and everything, and we're closing on Monday, um, I got a pretty substantial pay raise at work.

I'm in a new position.

And so, I was doing the budget the other day, and I'm basically my first question is, how intense can we get with this mortgage? >> Well, if you're That's the only debt you have. You have an emergency fund, I guess, after you closed.

>> Yes, sir. >> And what's your household income?

>> Uh, currently, uh, it's with the raise, it should be at somewhere around 95,000 after >> Excellent. And what's the balance on your mortgage?

>> Uh, 193.

>> Okay. So, you got all excited and wanted to dump all the raise on that, and she said, "No, I want to buy a couch." >> Uh, not quite. Not quite. Um, so, argument is a strong word for what I had said origi- initially. We talked about this last night. >> Okay. It's a good It's a fun discussion.

Okay, that's fair. So, here's the thing.

>> Absolutely. >> So, you're in Baby Steps 4, 5, and 6.

You need to be putting 15% away of your income away into good retirement accounts. Roth IRAs, and anywhere you

got a Roth 401(k)s, anywhere there's a match, and good growth stock mutual funds. Beyond that, it sounds like you don't have any kids. So, that's baby step five. Six is we put everything else on the house. Now, four, five, and six are intentional, not intense. So,

intentional means that we're going to be doing some things to have a good life, and we're going to be putting some extra on the debt.

And anywhere in there, I'm okay with. $5 extra on the debt is not what I'm talking about. We ought to put something substantially extra and get this house paid off early. But, that doesn't mean we don't go on vacation, and it doesn't mean we don't upgrade her 1993 Camry,

and it doesn't mean those things. So, we still do the basic things that without

splurging too much on the other things, but also keeping in mind I want to keep the the crosshairs on that mortgage and

knock that mortgage out as fast as I can. The faster you get it knocked out, the faster you're going to be a millionaire. Because when you got no payments in the world and you're making 100,000 bucks a year, you can become a millionaire.

And you're young, and you got all kinds of time to do this, and you've been very conservative in your purchase, and you're I love your numbers. They're great numbers. I think you're great. I don't think you're going to have a wrong answer between the two of you cuz I think both of you got good sense.

>> Yeah. >> Jeff is in Denver. Hey, Jeff, what's up?

>> Hey, Dave. I am so excited to talk with you guys. Um so, my wife and I are now

passing into retirement age. Um we've

been following baby steps uh since I think we first got married, then only recently came across, you know, you guys. And we're going, "Wow, this is really neat." But, so Dave, we to to to

cut to the chase, we we've saved about 5 million. >> Way to go. >> Um um we just finished paying off the house, so we really have no debt. Um but, we were listening on the radio today, and you guys were saying, "Well, you should invest and make 10 to 12%." And I'm like, "How the heck do you do that?" Um >> Well, the S&P 500 has averaged 11.8% and that's the stock market.

>> Okay, so just I mean, obviously you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, right?

I mean, or do you just want to invest in a S&P 500 fund? I don't know, Dave. That's what >> Well, I have my I have my investments in

in growth stock mutual funds across four categories: growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international.

And one of the ways I pick the fund is I want to pick a fund that has outperformed historically the S&P.

And then my other investments are in real estate that I pay cash for.

>> Okay. >> And they do way more than 12%.

>> Okay. Okay, I'm I'm really afraid of real estate cuz I don't I I I >> That's fine. >> I couldn't I couldn't walk out of a a hole if in real estate.

>> That's fine. No problem. You don't have to do it. But um you know, the bottom line is if you had just had your money in an S&P, in 2025, it would have made 17.9. In 2024, it would have made 25.6. In 2023, it would have made 26.3. That's what the S&P returned in those last 3 years. Those are above average returns. I don't think it's going to keep returning like that.

Those are unusually high good years. Uh this year we're flat year-to-date in the S&P. Um with a little bit of a roller coaster ride due due to Iran getting bombed. But the um but but overall, I'm been very comfortable. I've been investing in mutual funds for 30-plus years and I'm very comfortable that I can get north of 10% on average over a long period of

time. But I don't you know, I'm not sweating it, but I I shouldn't be getting 3% when I've got those kinds of rates of return floating around.

>> Yeah, I'm just curious of how he amassed $5 million, you know, I don't know if he's done company 401ks and doesn't understand the correlation to what you're talking about there, but I I mean that's uh >> He's done really well. >> Done very well. >> Yeah, way to go. Congratulations.

>> And so when you get somebody like that that has amassed, you know, and he wants to diversify now, does he go the just the standard diversification like you?

>> Yeah. >> I would, but I mean it's up to him. I mean mathematically, that's what I would do. Emotionally, I mean it sounds like he might not want to do that. >> Right. Right. >> But um that's okay. You don't have to do it, but you're asking how I did it or how we why we would say something like that on the air. Well, that's why. 17.9,

25.6, and 26.3. That's the last 3 years.

And so, you know, that that's kind of how this works. So, uh but again, that that's how you can get to an average of 11.8 since the stock market began.

Uh when other years you might make six or seven or eight.

And you know, and that drags the average down. Yeah. So, there you go. But all of these things beat high-yield savings for sure. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> This is the Ramsey Show.

>> The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to actually be part of the show. >> Ask your burning question live.

>> Finally win that money argument in your house. >> My mom occasionally asked us to borrow money. >> That's a no all the way around.

>> I'm a spender, he's a saver.

>> I'm a tightwad at heart. How many tightwads are out there? Thank you for making yourselves known. >> You do a pre-pre-nup?

>> What's a pre-pre-nup? >> I don't know. I thought there'd be something.

>> The Ramsey Show Live is your chance to be in the room with other people that are on the same journey as you.

>> There's always something you can do to better your situation.

>> We don't sell magic wands. And so that person in the mirror, they are really the secret sauce. They are the solution.

>> I'm really, really proud of you. That's awesome. >> That's pretty fun. You guys are great.

>> The Ramsey Show Live, one night only, coming to a city near you.

>> Ah!

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## 258. You Can’t Fix People by Funding Their Bad Decisions | December 2, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Dr. John Deloney, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, one of our most popular properties on [music] the Ramsey Network. Number one bestselling author and Ramsey personality. PhD in counseling, by the way. And after Thanksgiving, some of you probably need a little of that. Yeah.

Open phones here at8255225.

I'm not saying your family's crazy. I'm just saying somebody in your family is crazy. [laughter] >> Yeah, that's our standing joke around here. If you think there's crazy in every family, and if you think there's not in yours, that means it's you. So, yeah. Welcome to Thanksgiving and here we go to Christmas, baby. Yeah, just keep it rolling. Get the hits. They keep on coming. Bonnie's in Las Vegas. Hey, Bonnie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Amen.

Um, we've been long-standing uh huge

fans of yours and uh we just appreciate everything you do. And um we have our

19-year-old. We adopted her when she was 16. And so we did the best that we could, you know, for the uh few years that we had where she was living under our roof, just teaching her, you know, how to um how to save money, just be

wise, you know, uh with financial decisions. >> Mhm. >> And ultimately, it just was not um you

know, received well. And uh you know so

I my husband and I I think are at um are

at odds because you know one thing led to another and she just wasn't really making um wise choices in any area. And

um it just kind of was a better situation for her to leave the home, you know, cuz we have five little ones um at

our house as well that you know she was ultimately an example to as well. Um, but she's, you know, living with another family member is safe and and and good, but she's in a situation now where, you know, she doesn't have car insurance because she can't afford it. And so she's um because she's not working. And

now she's, you know, not working because she doesn't have a car to get to work.

Um, and so my mama heart wants to come in and, you know, kind of save her and and and help her out. Um,

you know, I I don't necessarily know what that looks like, but you know, my husband kind of says, well, she's kind of got to, you know, maybe hit rock bottom, hit, you know, um, a low so

that, you know, she can kind of wake up a little bit. And, um, you know, if she wants help, she can come and ask us.

>> And I'm kind of like, well, maybe she doesn't know that she can, you know, that she can ask us for help. Um, so we're kind of, you know, at odds there.

And I was just wondering if you had any suggestions.

You guys got big hearts and you're sweet people and you're really trying to make up 16 years of mess in just three years.

>> Yeah. >> And you did not get to enter into the development stages of her child development. You didn't get to lay any groundwork there. So, basically, you're taking a quasi adult at 16 and trying to

uh trying to fill her up with um 16

years worth of stuff she didn't get before and it didn't didn't work, right?

>> Yeah. So, this is a lot bigger than car insurance for her, isn't it?

>> Right. Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I I hear the pain in your voice. I'm sorry. But the um >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Yeah. Uh um so I'll let John pick it up,

but the thing I run into with the money piece is the nicest people on the planet

and you're one of them. Uh have and and

the one day a year that I'm the nicest person and the others I'm not. But that that that one day I am I can fall into the same bucket. We become enablers.

>> Right. Right. >> And we say things like mama's heart.

It's not mama's heart.

mama's. So, what I want you to do is I want you to define the word help to be

not something that temporarily takes away her pain, but something that helps her be a better 30-year-old.

>> Yeah. >> And this and and you just caving and running over and throwing money on her while she's misbehaving, rebelling, and doing a whole bunch of other stuff she shouldn't be doing for her own sake is not really help, is it? It's giving a drunk a drink.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, John, >> yeah. It's been my experience working with teenagers and young adults who were

adopted, especially late, that I don't

think this is a conscious thing at all, but there's always going to be a push to see, are you going to leave me too?

>> And it's a recurring limit to how far

can I take push you? how far can I stretch these boundaries, stretch this this rope you're giving me so I can prove to myself that it's me that's the problem.

>> And so the challenge for you is how do

you constantly stay in communication to this young person that you adopted

and let them know I will never leave you and that's different than I'm going to always give you whatever you want whenever you want it.

>> Sure. And where I've seen families be successful is it's a little bitty things

like a recurring breakfast together.

It's a um anytime I'm going to call you

once a week. I'm going to call you twice a week. We're going to meet at the local Waffle House there in Vegas once a week on Tuesday mornings. I'm going to be there at 7 o'clock in the morning or I'll be in front of your house to pick you up because you don't have a car.

Um, I want to see you and I'm going to continue to not just talk, but I'm going to do these small steps to prove to you that I'm in this for the long haul.

I won't be your bank. >> I'll be your number one fan, >> but I'm not your bank. >> That's right. And like Dave said, we're aiming here for a a 30-year-old that

believes in themsself, >> not a happy 19-year-old. Those those are two very different things, right?

>> And there's that means you're going to have to weather a storm. And you've weathered one for the last three years. Is that fair?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. I know it's been messy and ugly.

And there's going to be days you sit outside and she doesn't show up. There's going to be days you're sitting at a diner by yourself. And so take other work you got to do or whatever, but you want to constantly be showing yourself until she says, "I don't want a relationship with you." M >> um but like >> if a rel but if a relationship is based on you writing her checks that's not a relationship. >> It was never a relationship to begin with.

>> A purchased relationship has another name. >> Yeah.

and this person's an adult now and they don't want anything to do with us and that'll be heartbreaking and all that.

Um, but like Dave said, what is a way that we can be supportive?

So, you get a job and I will help you for four months with car insurance until you're under on your feet >> or I'll match you. You save up part of it. >> That's my favorite part is the match.

>> Something like that. But I'm going to call you up and pay for it and call that mother's heart. No, that's just giving a drunk a drink. >> Yeah. That's enabling. >> Sure. Right.

>> And so it's it's you and your husband getting clear together. What are ways we can partner with a young adult who has never had any sort of modeling up until 16 years old?

>> That's just tough. It's tough for that for your 19-year-old. It's tough for you all. It's tough for everybody cuz there's going to be a lot of hurt involved, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah, there has been. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah. And you had to get her out of the house with away from the kids. So, this kid's out of control for sure. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'm sorry.

>> But you're a good person. You're sweet.

you're trying. Um, and just don't get confused about the definition of help.

Real help helps her when she's 30, not when she's 19. Some 19-year-olds, real help is unlimited beer. No, that's not that's not what we're talking about.

[laughter] >> Yeah. Ask yourself, who who do you want this 30-year-old to be when they're 30?

And reverse engineer that.

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>> [music]

>> Gary is in Riverside, California. Hey, Gary. What's up?

>> Hey, good morning Dave and John. Thank you for taking my call. I'm calling on behalf of my mother-in-law. She's 85 years old. She's uh on a fixed income through Social Security and she's a widow. Um, we just recently learned that

she's racked up $38,000 in debt on

credit cards through QVC, JTV, things

like that. She's gone into a debt

consolidation company without our knowledge. And then she's still spending using her ATM card through QVC, JTV,

HSN, and every purchase is the five e

easy payments. So, she's got money coming out of her ATM now daily that's

drawing her into the negative. And on top of that, she was just start we found out she's trying to refinance her home that would take her mortgage up to um

about 55% of her income. So, we're looking for suggestions. one, with the debt that's in collections, and two, how to stop the ongoing money that's coming out of her account literally on a daily basis.

>> Doesn't matter if she goes back and does it again next week.

>> We think we finally got her to the point where she realizes that she's got a problem and she can't do it.

>> Will she sign it over to you? Cuz right now you don't have a legal claim to tell her to stop.

So, she does have a living trust and I

am her financial power of attorney there, but she has not been declared incompetent or anything like that. We don't know whether or not >> I want her to shut down all of her checking accounts >> and she has no spending available to her except what you give her and you operate her account as if she's incompetent

>> voluntarily. One of the things that's one of the things that my wife and I were discussing was whether we should shut down that account and >> for her own good. Not cuz you need her money, but I mean she ain't got any to start with. But the the um but the bottom line is is I don't believe her.

This is a lonely lady that is getting someone on the phone who's talking to her on the shopping channel and she's figured out a way to have a conversation when she's sitting there by herself. And she's going to do it again and again and again and again and again until you take until you take all manner of payment out of her control.

>> And the only way to do that right now since she's not deemed incompetent she has to give that to you.

>> Yeah. She's going to look look we I've

this is I've heard this story a bunch of times in 35 years. Okay. And um it it's

a classic. And so the um I'm not just

jumping to conclusions here about this unique situation. Um I'm telling you what I would do if it was my mother-in-law. I would say, "I really can't help you unless I help you. And

here's how I can best help you. I will make sure you have food and your house, and I will get these bills paid off for you. But we're going to stop all spending and I'm going to control the account and make sure you have stuff and until you can get the other side of this and then we'll look at what whether we want you to do it or not. But we're going to take the social security check, put it in a different bank and we're going to open up an account and I'm going to be in control of that account.

Okay? And then you can jump on the phone with the uh miscellaneous payment people and just go, "Good luck. She's 85. She's on social security. She's got nothing.

Um, a matter of fact, I if I can scrape together a few dollars of hers, I'll settle it with you. I've got full power of attorney. I'll send that to you. And so, what you did was prey on old people and took advantage of them and sold them stuff they couldn't afford.

So, you're going to get what you deserve, which is nothing, honey. So, I'm going to totally mess with them. Bloody their nose. I'll pay them something.

But, um, they can be cleared up.

>> Yeah. But you can't do it if she's doing 10 more tomorrow.

>> Right. Right. >> And she will do, don't you think?

>> That's our number one concern. Yes.

>> Yeah. Larry Briquette used to say financial problems are not the problem, they're the symptom. If these problems are the symptom, then what's the real problem? I think it's loneliness.

>> Part of it, but some of it she's clicking through things on Facebook and they're signing up her up for things that she's not even realizing that she's signing up for. >> Yeah. Okay. She's being prayed upon as an elder that doesn't understand the technology and she's lonely.

>> 100%. >> Yeah. And so, um, you know, I I I've got

I've got to build a system that that brings that into consideration to help her and that's what I'm outlining.

>> Will she turn it over to you?

>> You think she'll do it?

>> It depends on the day.

>> Yeah. [laughter] At times she's seems like she's wanting to help and then at others she gets stubborn and is like, "I know what I'm doing. Just leave me alone." >> It's your wife's mom.

>> Yes. >> Your wife got siblings.

>> Two of them. Um >> Yeah. She needs to make sure they're in the loop.

>> They They are. Yeah. We've >> But I mean, they're in the loop with you taking this over.

>> Cuz then they're going to be calling me and go, "My brother-in-law stole all my mother's money." >> That's right.

>> Yeah. And then you're setting up another war when she passes away

because then it will be like, "Where's the money? What'd you do? And we didn't know you were doing this." >> Just keep a just keep a real clear ledger so you know exactly where every bit of it went so you can handle an audit. >> And uh you just send them the audit and go, "Good luck.

Figure it out. You weren't there. You weren't helping." >> So uh but that's coming up too. But I I would I'd send them a report once a month.

Let them see exactly what's going on once you take it over so that they don't come back at you later.

>> Yeah, >> it understood. >> And I I I have a personal rule of thumb.

It I'm not it's not ironclad, but it's just a just seems to work better.

>> Can Does your mother-in-law listen to you more than her own daughter, or is this a conversation that your wife and her siblings can have?

We've tried that. So, her the siblings are out of state. My wife and I have been over there a couple times over the last couple weeks and we have the conversations together. My wife is standing right here with me now as we're discussing this. >> Okay. Sometimes a third party is helps

and sometimes third party being you and sometimes it makes it more convoluted.

Um and so y'all y'all know your family dynamics better than anybody, but um that's always where I want somebody to start. And for some reason, sometimes people can't hear from their adult kids, but they can hear from somebody else.

And so if you're that somebody else, that's great. >> Yeah. I had a family member of my wife Sharon's that asked me a detailed question about an estate thing. And I said, "Oh, that's easy. You just need to do this, this, this, and this. And if you don't do it, you're going to create these problems, and you need to do it this week. Do this, this, and this." You got it? Yeah. Okay. You know what they did? Nothing. Not that. [laughter]

Nothing. It was freaking Dave Ramsey that said it. Okay. I mean, this isn't [laughter] like the other brother-in-law. This is me, you know.

So, you know, >> God almighty nothing. So, yeah, John's right. Sometimes it's the blood that's got to the the blood kin that's got to make the message go through. Uh it doesn't matter who it is. So, you sound very credible, Gary. I like what you're saying and I think you're going to have to a partial is going to create a partial door open to Facebook scams to

uh shopping channel scams and she's going to sign up for all of them and she's going to end up and refinancing the house obviously is ridiculous. No, don't do that. I would rather just put all these other bills in collections.

Just let them go to collections and ruin her credit. That'd be awesome.

Yeah. So, she can't get anymore. Dave, so I hear this only because um I'm on

this show, but if I read the headlines, all the headlines say is there's this

bajillions of trillions of dollars of wealth in aging populations.

But I have to believe that's concentrated because the more I'm on this show, I'm hearing more and more of what I would call the other untold story

of aging populations that are increasingly falling for internet scams.

Um, letting princes over in somewhere in

Africa borrow money.

>> The Nigerian prince has a Bitcoin.

>> Yeah. all kind like but it's it's becoming like really significant and I

don't know if there's a broader conversation that needs to happen but people need to sit down with their aging parents. Yeah. >> Especially the ones that are not the ones that have millions of dollars at the disposal as much as these folks who are on social security. They got nothing. >> Mhm. >> And they're mortgaging their souls for this stuff. >> Well, I've been hearing the shopping channel thing with aging for 30 years.

That's been going on forever. Um what what I will tell you has increased is two things. buy now pay later. The four four easy payments for a freaking t-shirt, >> a $9 t-shirt, you get four payments on it. Okay, it's a problem here people.

And uh then then the other thing is just technology has uh you know increased the

size, the scale, the speed at which people get screwed. >> Yeah. And it and it gives you a picture of it too. >> Exactly. You know, Facebook gives you access to some good things but also some that aren't. Yeah.

>> [music]

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I get so confused by these sales and these sale holidays. So apparently we

have Cyber Monday week.

[laughter] This is so oxymoronic. Okay. So Cyber

Monday week. We have Cyber Monday, but it goes on all week. >> This is America. Nothing's real. Not even days and weeks.

>> We just convolute whatever the crap we want so we can sell some stuff. That's what we do. >> And we're Hey, at Ramsey, we are the same way. We're going to do the exact same thing. So, we have Cyber Monday Week and the deals, they are in full swing. Got hardcover books, audio books, assessments, all with prices as low as $6.99.

Shut up. You can't get stuff for $6.

Yeah, you can here. Don't wait. These deals end Sunday. Sunday [laughter] the

12th, the 7th of December. I'm so

confused. That's the Lord's day. and go to ramseysolutions.com/store or if you're watching on YouTube and so forth, click in [laughter] the show notes. I'm so caught up in this.

Sherry's in Dallas. Hey, Sherry. How are you?

>> Good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So honored to speak to you guys today. I really need your advice. >> We'll try. I um I fell for the annuity scam and didn't know it was a scam until after I did it and after my 20-day window was over. Um in October, we

rolled $689,000 of my husband's 401k into a fixed annuity and they gave us a 5% bonus. So

the value today is 724. Uh the problem

is the insurance company as I'm sure you know keeps 22% of that and the first year surrender charge is 13%.

So my question is do we stay until the

surrender charges drop? Um especially given you know >> this is 30 days old. This is 30 days old.

>> It's um a it's over that. It was in October.

>> Well okay. I mean it's 45 days old.

Yeah. He told me it's too late. He told me I had a 20-day window. >> This is the insurance agent that told you this. This sold you this crap.

>> Correct. >> Okay. Good. All right. Um

I don't know is the answer, but I want

more information because I don't believe

the person who sold me something that's bad to start with. That's not a good source of information.

>> Fair. Fair enough. So go to ramseysolutions.com and click on smartvester pro and get one of our Smartves Veester Pros there in your area that you can talk to and and tell them what you've got and see if uh the

insurance commissioner in Texas will

grant you a little more leeway than that and you get 100 cents in the dollar back.

>> Okay. >> And then get back out of it. So, um,

yeah. And then get this into some good investments that aren't so front-loaded and crappy in performance, >> right? >> So, um, >> so do you recommend a a index fund?

>> Um, I recommend a fruit jar before you do this, but um [laughter] uh but the Yeah,

an index fund is fine. um it was a 401k

and so uh you've got you need to roll it into an IRA and based on the fact that it's in an IRA I'm probably going to put it in the four types of mutual funds that mine are in which is a fourth in

growth growth in income aggressive

growth and international with long track records that's what mine are in and I'm 65 how old are you

>> I'm 62 >> okay >> my husband and is about to be 60.

>> Okay. So, yeah, same category and that's what mine are in cuz I'm going to leave it alone and then you've got to start talking about moving some of it out of there before you get to 73 and a half because you're going to have RMDs required minimum distributions on your 401k. You're going to have that in the in the annuity as well, by the way, because it's probably a qualified plan, too. So, um meaning it's a >> what do I do if they won't move it and we're stuck with the 13%.

>> One quarter of the of the stock market might be 13%.

>> You know, and it's certainly going to, you know, you're going to make your money back quick enough. Um uh the the

and I'm going to I'm not going to accept

Joe Bob's answer. Okay? I I want your I want your I want somebody that that that knows the laws and and the the tolerance

for this in with the Texas Insurance Commission to put their hands on this.

It may be, but if I'm you and it's going to cost me 13% in stupid tax to get this moved, you'll make that back up in good investments rather than being stuck in this thing.

>> And the other thing is every day you wake up and you see the company name, you're pissed again. I don't want to live like that.

Yeah. >> Now, let's recap for my mistake.

>> No, it's okay. Everybody makes mistakes.

You You were hoodwinkedked. So, let me tell people what happened to you, and you tell me if I'm right.

>> A person contacted you in your 60s about helping you create a very stable,

predictable investment that would grow without taxes. And they are an investment

adviser. They're a financial advisor.

And the company name is a insurance company name not an investment company name but they posed as and sell

themselves as an investment adviser. Is that what happened?

>> Close. I actually reached out to them

>> because they were promoted by a person

in the church that's well known that I trust and follow.

>> Yeah. >> And then they dropped some big names of people that they've helped and whose money they manage. And so that's what got me hooked. >> Yeah. But it's you did not place your money with an investment company. You placed your money with an insurance company.

>> Correct. >> And going in you were not planning on doing that. That's not what you signed up for. You signed up for to do some investing.

>> Correct. >> And then they they but they insurance agents are licensed only to sell insurance products. Annuities are insurance products. They cannot sell mutual funds. And so this is what they sell is this crap and um and they put people in and they

can even sell a decent product which is a variable annuity but I wouldn't even put you in that because you're getting double feed. So it's just a it's a yeah

man it's awful. I'm sorry you're having that. I but if it if you only lose 13% I

would be in good investments versus a fixed annuity. Fixed nuity is like a high yield savings account rate. It's gonna pay you four or five percent. If you make 12 or 14 on something in two years, you made your money back if that's all you make. And you ought to make more than that if you watch what you're doing and get some real help. So, uh, as a possibility anyway, depending on what the markets are doing. So, yeah, I I'm I'm out of there. Wow.

That infuriates me, John. That's Well, it's somebody else getting prayed on in their 60s, right? We talked about earlier. >> Yeah. >> Um, tell me this. So when she says 13%,

is that of the growth since this thing was moved or is that over the like 13% of the entire portfolio? >> The entire portfolio. >> Good gosh. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because they're going to get their blankety blank commission no matter what. >> That's a crazy amount. >> Yeah. Well, the insurance business is all front-loaded. It's all they all get their money on the front end of everything. And um so these are frustrated life insurance agents is what they are. They're not real good. And so

sometimes you I even see these things, okay, the whales jumping on the Sure.

>> Pacific Life and we'll help you and you got people walking and they're holding hands in a rose garden and they're retiring and all this bull crap. It's it's stupid but life insurance stuff. My daughter, you're not going to believe me. My daughter yesterday, her and I I wouldn't watch one of one of Blue or whatever she wanted to watch.

I wanted to watch football games. So, she curled up on the couch next to me and they had they had a commercial and she said, >> "What does that have to do with whatever it is they're selling?" She's nine. And I was like, >> "Not a lot, Josephine.

>> It's called branding. It's called branding." But yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah. And so if if the if the name of the company you're getting ready to do your investment in air quotes with has

insurance in the name, you're about to

get screwed.

That's a good way to remember it. Okay.

done. >> So, I mean, if you don't do in you don't get your muffler fixed at the transmission store, you don't do investments with insurance.

Okay? It's that simple. We go, you know, go qualified people who have securities

licenses, not insurance licenses, to

help you do real investing. >> I just can't believe a penalty on anything would be 13% of the total of your portfolio. What a >> And how about this? 20 day or 26 days

with a 20-day cut off. Oh no, ma'am. We can't do that now. What business does that? >> Yeah, someone who is Home Depot will take your lawnmower back 2 years after you bought it and give you a full refund. But not these bozos. [laughter]

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>> [music]

>> It's that time of year. We're going to be doing our special giving edition of the Ramsey Show up here in December.

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in the subject line. Caleb is in Canada.

Hi Caleb. How are you?

>> Hey Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Looks like you've had a I had a month and a half longer to burn off that Thanksgiving turkey here in Canada, but I'm doing good. I'm doing good.

>> Um my wife and I are wondering how we

can go from being um intense to

intentional. We um have never really had

any debt, no student loans, no car loans. We do have a house mortgage that we want to uh pay off aggressively.

Uh the only thing is standing in our way is we want to my wife wants to travel. I want to pay down the house faster. I guess we're kind of at a a standstill there on uh just what approach we should take of of finding a good balance between enjoying our lives and uh continuing to uh be aggressive with getting our house paid off. >> Okay. So when you do the budget, you have x number of dollars extra that we could either throw at the house or at travel. Correct.

Correct. Yep.

>> Why don't you just try an experiment?

Split it.

>> Okay. >> Half towards a house, half towards travel >> and just see how that works for a little while. >> And then you may want to reset the percentages later. The two of you agreeing on them, not you persuading her that 100% needs to go towards house or her persuading you that 100% needs to go towards travel.

>> Right. >> You just have some conflicting goals, both of which are good goals.

>> Yeah. Yeah. We obviously want to enjoy, we're pretty young, we want to enjoy our um our lives, but we also would would like that burden off of our shoulders of of having the mortgage. >> They're both really good goals. What's your household income, sir?

>> Um combined we bring about net we bring

around one home.

>> Mhm. Good. >> Um I I work >> What's the balance on the mortgage?

>> Uh 419,000.

>> Okay. So, I'll run out some scenarios cuz you're the math nerd. you're going to want to do this and go, "Okay, the money that we have left in a budget is X, and if I put half of it towards the debt on the house will be done by year."

And then you go, "Okay, that's >> I don't know. I make up a number. $2,000 a month we can put towards travel.

That's $24,000 a year. That's dad gum couple nice trips right there."

>> Yeah. >> I mean, I made that number up. I don't know if you got 4,000 disposable or not, but whatever the number is, right? Y'all work on it. But I mean, just try something. And as John says, just, you know, it's a muscle that's been undeveloped, underdeveloped, and now you're developing the travel muscle. And

um both of you, you know, she's getting some of her thing, you're getting some of yours. And if it's a smaller item that you're trying to decide, like buying a car versus a trip, um you know, what we always do is just try to put which one's first, not which one. >> Yeah. And the thing about the

Caleb, what you're describing here, I would want to know, is there a place she wants to go or is this an identity? We

want to be people who go travel because if it's a place we want to go, let's put a dollar amount on it. Let's do our research and let's let's like you said, let's split it until we've saved up for that. >> I've always wanted to go on a dot dot dot >> to Costa Rica or to Australia or whatever. Let's save up and do that.

If she is saying, "No, no, I want to be somebody who always has a trip on the calendar somewhere. I'm always planning." >> That's what I was doing. >> Then that's a different that's an identity. >> And let's be honest about what that's going to cost.

And so, um, getting to the brass tax of

what that actually means. >> No, that's good. That's good because Yeah, I think you're right. We, um, >> my wife and I, she would say, "I want to travel." And I would say, "Okay, where do you want to go and how much is that going to cost?" And I missed what she was saying, which is John, you're kind of boring and you like to go to bed and just sit at the house and I want to be I want to go out and see the world.

And that was a different conversation. I just missed it. Right. >> Yeah.

But that is different than I've always wanted to see fill in the blank >> a thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And you can you can budget that one and >> that was easy. Yeah. >> That's a trip versus a car versus a couch versus a whatever purchase. So again, all we're doing is every dollar still has an assignment.

We just don't have to live on beans and rice. We can do some travel. We can buy a couch. We can upgrade the car.

We can pay down on the house. We can do all of these and just as long as we're together and we're doing a little bit on all of it. A little bit on the house extra. I don't want to do zero on the house extra, but but um or you can turn it up and turn it down.

I'm going to turn it way down because we need to get a car. We need to upgrade this car. Mama's car is bad. You know, that kind of thing.

And then you can after we get the car, we'll turn it back up. you can give and go a little >> uh versus and that's if you've got identified targets.

have a different I don't have a good word for it other than that's where true marital intimacy comes from cuz you get beneath the hey I want to pay this house off because I I have this thing in my soul I hate owing somebody money. Um or

I want to be someone who travels. I never got to travel as a kid and there's so much in this amazing world. I want to go see some of it. You get to have those rich conversations and they get off the spreadsheet and into your spirit, which I think is a great conversation that many couples don't ever get to.

They stop at the spreadsheet and then they have a fight and then they both go their separate ways. Yeah. And I love those deeper conversations.

juggling this. We're arguing about this. And so that's good. But tell her why you want what what it would mean to not have a house payment as a husband, right? I would know my wife is always taking care of if something were to happen to me.

That's a different conversation than I just want to pay this off because it's the next baby step or you know the travel. So it's getting to that deeper level and I think those make for great rich conversations. >> Agreed. Chris is in Tampa, Florida. Hey Chris, how are you?

>> Better than I deserve. Dave, >> good. How can we help?

>> I have a situation coming up. I have always had to pay uh well for the last three years flood insurance because I've had a loan on my house uh and I was required to carry it. I've recently paid off my house and now I'm looking at my flood insurance is going to be about somewhere between $45 and $4,800

uh for $250,000 worth of coverage with a $5,000 deductible.

>> Are you on the coast or on a waterway?

>> I am. I'm in flood zone A cuz I'm a

>> Nothing wrong with that. That's not a If you want to live on the beach, you want to live on the beach. >> But you just And floods happens happen because of hurricanes.

>> Exactly. >> And hurricanes [clears throat] happen in Tampa. >> Yeah. Y'all y'all got a doozy a year or two ago, right?

>> Yeah, we sure did. Two of them back to back. >> In that case, I'm In that case, I'm keeping it. >> Absolutely.

>> Okay. Even if I had money like for 250,000, I have 200 that we've been using to save up to move. >> You got to go through how many years.

>> How many years you got to go through?

>> Like 40 or 50 years or something to break even?

>> 5,000 5,250, right?

>> Yeah. I was just looking if I could park that money in a in an account that would grow. >> Not that fast. >> Then and use >> So you would you would maintain your flood insurance at that? I I would >> just call in a sleep tax, dude.

>> If it was me, I would. And and here's here's why. Okay, you guys remember Katrina and we were talking about it earlier uh in uh in uh just destroyed

New Orleans. And the houses all got destroyed, but they didn't get destroyed by the hurricane. They got destroyed because the hurricane destroyed the levies. Everybody got wiped out by floods. State Farm paid nothing.

They paid no one anything on hurricane insurance because they declared it all to be floods. >> Wow. >> And they were taken to court time and time and time again and they won every one of them. Same thing in Mississippi.

Same exact thing h happened GF coast of Alabama. Same exact thing. And uh

because what happens is storm surge

is considered a flood even though it's caused by a hurricane. And these people don't pay their ter their claims. And so

um and so State Farm just walked away scot-f free. They led the charge cuz they're the largest and then all the other goobers followed them. And um but

yeah, they they and they won the court cases. Said it wasn't a hurricane knocked the house down. It's a flood that was caused by hurricane. But that's it seems to be irrelevant. I don't know.

Pisses me off every time I say it out loud. >> Dude, it just you're making my blood boil, man. >> Well, I'm I'm not a State Farm fan anyway. You know that. So there you go.

All right. That just that just sealed it for me.

>> [music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr.

John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. Open phones at825-5225.

Daniel's in New York City. Hi, Daniel.

How are you?

Hi, Mr. Ramsey. Uh, big fan of the show.

Uh, me and my girlfriend, we're both young. We'd like to start dating and move. Well, sorry. Sorry. We have been dating for 4 years and we'd like to move

in together and potentially Well, we'd like to get married. I was just curious on what your thoughts were.

>> Uh, the data is not in your favor.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm aware. I've heard you guys read off the statistics before. I'm actually um doing some research for a new marriage project and they actually have the cohabitation data longitudinally just for earned income

and something as simple as household income over time is less than those who

are married. Not to mention this the statistics on the the relationship not making it over time. Um how long have you all been dating?

>> Uh four years. >> Four years. Why not just pull the trigger? What are you waiting on?

Um, I would like to do it. Um, my parents are advising against it and they're saying that we should live together for 6 months to a year prior.

Um, I would like to do it. It's just that I I'm also heeding their advices.

>> How old are you? >> My parents I'm 20 25 26 and a month.

>> Okay. So, if you if you already have your if you're a guy who's going to listen to their parents even if you disagree with them, why are you calling two strangers on a podcast?

Uh, I was just curious what your guys's opinions was. >> You already knew. >> Yeah, you already knew what we were going to say. I started rattling off the data and you're like, "Yeah, I already knew that." >> Right.

>> Um, we both think we're very like financially uh sound. We've saved up a bunch of money. So, I'm just curious if that changes anything or No. >> No. Cuz how old were you when you got married? >> Me? Yeah. >> 24. >> Okay. I was 22.

>> Yeah. I've been married 43 years.

>> I'm I'm 23 and a2. >> Listen, I I I think you can respect your parents and still disagree with them.

>> I do all the time. I love my parents to death. They're good people. >> I respect John and I disagree with him sometimes. >> Yeah, [laughter] we disagree all the time.

>> Not really. >> And I'm usually right. That's That's even harder. >> Not really. Yeah. [laughter] >> So, my Let me tell you this. Are you calling us because you actually want to marry this girl?

Yes, sir. >> Okay. At some point, you're going to have to say, "As for me, in my household."

>> Yeah. Your your mom [clears throat] and dad no longer get to tell you what to do when you're a man, my son.

>> They can only advise you.

>> Right. Um, so my next question would be, >> and neither do podcasters get to tell you what to do. You still have to do what you want to do.

>> Yes, sir. Understood. So, we've got about $6,000 saved up. I understand that you guys advise one month of income for

uh engagement ring or rings.

>> Oh, in our area for like New York City

in Long Island, it's really expensive for rent. Uh we've traveled to a few cities. Um we we just we're other than

like we figure you guys recommend the quarter of your income for living expenses. Can we permit up to like 35% where we are? We're both in the hospitality entry level positions. We graduated together with associates degrees.

>> Okay. Well, that's a completely different set of questions separate from what you called about, right? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. So, um, yes, one month

of your income is the maximum you should spend on a ring. Um, and yes, 1/4th of

your take-home pay is the most you need to put into rent, not for household expenses, but into rent, because you don't create a sustainable situation.

You're short on money. Your house poor when your rent is 35 or 40 or 50% regardless of where you live. So, if your income is going to be going up like doubling in the next year and a half or two years, and you take on a little bit higher rent, then that doesn't kill you.

But if you try to sit there and prosper for four years where your rent is 35% of your take-home, you got a bad formula.

It's not You're going to struggle with that one. >> Oh, but they're in New York, so all rents going to be free from now on. That they're going to be good.

>> Yeah. >> No, too soon. >> Yeah. [laughter] Too soon. >> Plus, plus or minus the rats. Yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Okay. Um, and I'm not talking about the rodents, but Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. I I I don't know. It's um uh

No, Daniel. Um the math still has to

math even in New York.

And um so yeah, you've got to decide what you guys are going to do. It may be if you're going to be in the hospitality business, if you can't move up quickly enough with your associates degrees into

uh sustainable incomes in a market that's that expensive, then you may need to be doing it somewhere else. That's a possibility, too. Lots of people live leave areas they can't afford to live in. That's been since time began people

have done that until they can afford to do it. And so um you know and and New

York City being one of the more expensive cities in the world to live in. So literally New York, Tokyo,

London, San Francisco, I mean these are this is the list, right? Paris, these are very

uber expensive to live in. Not just because they're recognizable major metro areas, but it's just stinking expensive, period. And so try renting a flat in

London. That'll get your attention.

Scott's in Montana. Let's go the other direction. What's up, Scott?

>> Hey guys, uh, thanks for taking my call.

Um, my wife and I, we are almost done

with uh, Babysub 2. Um, I'm 49 years

old. Um, and I was approached today um

at work to purchase a long-term

care policy. It's a >> nursing home care. >> It says, >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It says if you become chronically ill, lifetime benefit term, we'll pay you%. >> You don't need it. >> That's what I was wondering. I was a little hesitant on that. What's the main >> The main deal is long-term care insurance is vital when you're 60 years old and above. the percentage likelihood of you using it prior to 60 is very close to zero.

>> Okay? >> So, we don't recommend buying it until you're 60. And if you're 60 and you got $10 million, don't buy it. Just self-insure.

Just pay for the nursing home or pay for inhome care or whatever you're going to do. Okay? But if you're, you know, you got 500 grand to your name and you're 60 years old, the nursing home is going to be 300 grand over three years. It's going to crack and scramble the nest egg. Typically, the guy dies before the lady 75% of the time. And so, papa goes

in the nursing home, uses up all the money, and then dies, leaves mama broke.

That's the one 60 years old that needs long-term care insurance. You don't need it at 40.

>> 49. >> 49. You don't need it till you're 60.

>> I'm 65. I got plenty of money. I didn't buy it.

>> That's where I was I was a little hesitant. And I have a I have a life insurance policy now, a term life that's done um I guess until I'm Yeah, it's it's at 75 it ends.

>> Um I also have insurance through uh through the military. Um >> Mhm. >> should I be purchasing any other type of >> Well, life insurance you need if uh about 10 to 12 times your income on you

>> to cover your family if you die. And

that's taking care of your wife and kids. When you're 75, the kids hopefully will be grown and gone.

They'll be grown. Hopefully, they'll be gone. And uh and so that's that's the game plan. And you'll be out of debt and have some money. And you so you you you're with some financial planning, you outlive the need for life insurance long term. But for right now, yeah, you do need some life insurance.

[music]

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John's in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.

Hey, John. How are you?

>> Good morning. >> Hey, what's up?

>> Um, uh, I've got a bit of a situation.

Um, we were actually starting to think about a reverse mortgage and I want to I know you're always against it, so I want to hear what, uh, what your point of view on this is.

Um, I've got a daughter uh 32 years old

who uh became a widow and a single mom

and uh we've got a right now she's working one day a week from uh the office and 4 days a week at home and that's kind of working out but they want to move her back to the office and that's kind of unsustainable.

So we're kind of thinking about trying to get her off the workforce for a couple years until the kids are just a little bit bigger.

How old are those kids?

>> Uh, one is about um 20

this month and the other one is about 33

>> months. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, two years and three years.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> Okay. I thought you were getting ready to say 20 years. I was about to freak out. Okay. >> What happened to her husband?

>> Uh, it's a motorcycle crash.

>> Oh gosh, man. I'm sorry. What's she do for a living? Uh >> she works in the education system. She helps disabled kids do uh exams.

>> Obviously, no life insurance.

>> Uh well, his debts pretty much were insured. Uh the house is paid for and most of his debts were covered. Um she

doesn't have monthly income from it, but u uh quite a bit of the uh the debts

were were covered.

>> Okay. All right. But he didn't have life insurance to provide for her just to cover the debts. Okay.

>> Yes. >> Some of them. Okay.

>> Yeah. So, it was like a couple miscellaneous build and the house insurance or the house mortgage was the biggest one. >> Is she asking to leave the workforce?

Because my gut tells me this is not a great idea.

>> No. No. Me and my wife have come up with that idea. uh we're kind of seeing this is when she has to go back four four or five days a week to the office, it's it's too long of a dates of the kids to be gone that long. Like on the day she works, we go and take care of the kids later in the day.

>> Is But I mean, you're talking about a two or three year challenge here until the kids are in school age, right?

>> Right.

>> Yeah. I mean, I would sit down and have that conversation with her, but I a I

wouldn't put myself at financial risk that she might have to clean up someday.

Number one, but number two, it feels

like you guys are watching your daughter grieve deeply, this sudden and

unfathomably traumatic loss, and y'all

are itching to do something to help in support, but it's it's something that she hasn't even asked to do.

Yeah. Well, I know she won't ask.

>> Yeah, that doesn't matter. Um, >> taking her out of any taking her out of any support c any social circle in work, especially as a teacher is your friends are there like other adults are there, taking her out of a purpose outside of these two years with the kids. What What does she do again? She she works with um disabled kids.

>> Yeah. >> Kids with special needs. Okay. She works with special needs kids from her home

>> four days a week. How does she do that?

>> It's all online and most of the tests are done online. With CO, they tried to move as much as they could to >> There's not co >> No, I know. But >> Oh, this is Canada. I forgot. >> The office. Yeah, I know. I know.

And our money is is off the money, too.

>> Jeez. Yeah. I I I wouldn't recommend it,

especially when conversation with her.

It feels like a uh a temporary solution for a permanent problem or a permanent solution for a temporary problem. I said it backwards. Um >> yes, that's >> and so um uh does she live in your

community?

>> Uh we're about 45 minutes apart.

>> Okay. Can you keep the kids?

>> Oh, she wouldn't park their kids.

>> No, when she goes to work full time >> while she's working during the day instead of daycare.

uh that would put us there five days a week instead of what we're doing now at 2 or three. And uh she likes dropping

them off in the morning and then we pick up in the afternoon on the days she's not home.

>> Here's what y'all aren't metabolizing though. How long ago did her husband pass away?

>> Uh 13 months. >> Okay. It feels like there's still a pause on every single solitary thing has changed.

>> Yes. And I say this with as big a heart

as I could possibly say it, but I spent my career sitting with folks who's the worst thing has happened to them.

Like what you want is is different now.

I wanted to drop these kids off. I did I don't want their life to change that much. I want to be able to keep this job and this town and this house. I want all those things and all that is good to want that. But every single thing is different now.

And so what we want, especially for the next couple of years until those kids get into school age, is is got to go out the window to what do we have to do? So before I put my personal home at risk in my retirement years, I would babysit the children. That's what I'm saying.

>> All day every day for for five days a week for two years. I would rather give that up than give up you can step into a

reverse mortgage and screw up your home mortgage heading into retirement. or one or both of y'all move into the house for five days a week and you'll go home to your house on the weekends for the next 24 months or something.

>> Just say for 24 months we're going to step in and help you get this done and look for another job, >> right? Or possibly you have to move closer now. We have to sell this house because everything is different now.

>> Yeah. >> And that sounds so callous and ugly. I'm not trying to be ugly at all, but everything's different now. And what we want comes second to the reality that we're faced with. >> Yeah. So, so she's not going to get her perfect life back. Everything's not going to be back together by you throwing some money at it.

>> Yes. And her taking stepping out of the workforce, all of the adults in her life, all of her support network, and just staying at home for two years >> and the meaning that serving special needs kids is giving her, right? >> All that's gone. >> Yeah. And she needs that right now.

Yeah. So, no, I'm keeping her in the workforce and figuring out how uh that's what I would do. And it could be a change of jobs. It could be a change of location. It could be helping with the babysitting. I all those kinds of things. But but uh subsidizing her doing nothing >> is not a good plan. >> No. >> No. That that's we're both in agreement on that. >> Hey, thank you for the call and I'm so sorry y'all have been through this. What a horrible horrible thing.

>> Okay, folks. Um I'm going to sidebar and it's going to sound really callous, but here's the thing. when you're 30 years old, even in Canada, um you can buy

half million dollars in life insurance for the cost of a pizza.

So, go to Xander Insurance right now and

make sure you have your your term life insurance in place. Yeah, Dave did a commercial. Now, you can say whatever you want to say. I've been endorsing this company because I think you need to go to Xander Insurance for 30 freaking years. So you for the dadgum cost of a

pizza, I don't have this conversation I just had.

So we had a young lady in Financial Peace University, we videoed it and put it in the video with her permission, put it in the the old class that we used to have uh that she and her husband were 23 years old. They went through Financial Peace University, went and bought a million dollars worth of life insurance and he got by hit by a car 3 weeks later. >> Good grief. >> And she gave birth to their new baby.

>> Jeez. for like a month and a half after he died. >> Yeah. >> And she comes on the video with and and says, "This is what having the this is what having a million dollars worth of life insurance means to me right now." >> Mhm. >> I'm 23 year old widow with a baby.

>> And I can't get my husband back. I can't do any of those things. But for for just a few dollars, I'm I'm you know, this is

an act of love. I'm set up. >> Yeah. >> I'm set up. And yeah, that's the problem. Um because we don't know when we're going to go >> and um you might get old and ugly like me or you might go out on a motorcycle like him early.

>> Um that's not, you know, so um and it's

not to bismerch that young man at all.

He obviously had some insurance, took care of the >> debts for the family. She's got a paid for house. She's that he did a lot of good stuff there. There's no question about that. But I'm just saying guys, this is opportunity to remind y'all that that it just doesn't take a lot to to to

completely say a whole different conversation up. >> Yeah. >> It there's no good conversations when someone dies or gets killed in their 20s. There's no good conversations.

[music] But when they got little kids, a little wife, little husband left at home, a and they're sitting there with a half million dollars or a million dollars, or they're sitting there with nothing [music] and having these conversations about how to come out of the workplace to take care of two two littles. Uh, man, it's

incredible.

[music]

[music]

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. uh a car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes. >> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

Whether you're single or married, it's not optional.

>> And that's why Xander is our go-to. They make it super simple to get the right coverage at the best price. No pressure, no upselling. >> I've trusted Jeff Xander and Xander Insurance for over 25 years, and so is my family. >> So don't wait. It's fast, it's easy, and it could make all the difference. Go to xander.com or call 800356-4282.

Protect yourself. Protect your income.

Protect your family.

[music]

[music] Okay. If you're going to win with money, you have to tell it what to do instead of wondering where it went. If you don't know where all your money went in 2025, that's normal, but normal sucks. We don't want to be normal. Next year can be different. Get a head start by downloading Every Dollar. The app Every

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Every dollar still has the same great budgeting features, but it's also going to help you work the Ramsey plan now.

New and improved. Don't go into the year feeling broke and stressed. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play right now. James is in Rhode Island. Hi, James. How are you?

>> Good. Dave, how are you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> All right. So, I'm a 40-year-old guy. I got a fiance and a baby who turned two in July. And my fiance and I, we have three Airbnbs that are doing really well. Uh four years into it, um last

year we grossed about 102,000. Uh this

year we're go we're forecasting to do about 127,000 gross on the three Airbnbs

with a 62% profit margin. Day job is

hospitality sales. I make about 120,000

a year. She is a psychologist. She makes

about 110. So, her issue is um there are

these microlo and another one is available, but it's in a super historic old building and I'm thinking about getting a fourth Airbnb, but the banks

are telling me that I got to put 40% down and they're going for about two and a quarter. So, I want to hear your take if I should

get another profitable Airbnb

and have it under the same roof as all

my other ones, or is that considered maybe too high risk?

>> Okay. Um,

well, I

not sure you called the right show. I'm not sure that you know what we do, but um the uh um so I own several hundred

million in real estate. Okay, I love real estate as an investment.

>> Um I went broke in the real estate business in my 20s if you haven't heard the story. >> And the way I did that was I borrowed too much money >> and um the banks called our notes because we were in a high-risisk scenario. Um the Airbnb business is

basically the hotel business.

>> Mhm. >> Uh it's a very high laborinttense, you know, a lot of hassle. So the money

that you're earning on those Airbnbs, you're working your heiny off to get that money. >> And you're probably working I am >> you're working some other people's heiney off because it's a lot of hassle.

>> I'm the maintenance man. I'm the housekeeper. I'm the guy checking them in. Yep. Yeah. I mean, and you have a two-y old away, so >> Yep. >> Yeah. Why don't you pick up golf, too?

Oh my god. You know, I mean, you ain't got time to do nothing. Um, so, uh, I I

don't know that you have the bandwidth to add another one on your personal number one. Number two, the risk with

Airbnbs is that, as you probably know, and I don't know where it stands in Providence, Rhode Island, but many HOAs,

many neighborhoods, u many entire municipalities are passing zoning to stop it >> because they're disruptive to the neighborhood. Um, and so I know a lot of

people that have lost the ability to run an a Airbnb on a property they bought for an Airbnb.

And in a historic setting, that's very possible, >> right? It's it's in a unique building.

It's the oldest mall in America where there's retail on the first floor and the second and third floor was repurposed to Airbnb. So, it is in a commercial zone. >> Okay. So, that means the risk of them reszoning it and keeping you from doing it is less.

>> To my understanding, yes. Okay. or it's going to take one new tenant downstairs that's a big tenant that says I don't want people living upstairs.

>> Well, we're all on the board >> now. They're already got residential in there. It's just a matter of whether it's nightly rental >> okay >> residential >> because it's a hotel in a sense. So, I don't know. You're you're doing some things I don't want to do and and I don't recommend people do things I don't want to do. So, number one thing you're doing is you're buying property with someone you're not married to. Very dangerous. Number two, you're going in debt to do it. Very dangerous. Number

three, you have a high-risk business

model that's dependent upon someone else

called Airbnb. Very dangerous. Number

four, you have to do all the freaking work and you're getting ready to add 25% to the workload going from three to four and you have a two-year-old. Very dangerous. So, that's what I meant by I don't know if you've been around us much. And I'm not trying to be mean to you. Uh I just think I think that all you have seen in this is the upside.

You've not considered any of the downsides. And that's the way I was in my 20s. And it's what caused me to go broke. And so now I'm always looking.

I'm not negative thinker. I buy I mean, like I said, I own hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate. I love real estate, but I have low hassle real estate. I don't I don't own a single Airbnb. and we've got enough residential I easily could do that, but we don't want to screw with it. It's just too dead much work for the money, too much drama for the money. And so, we'd rather

make the money um you know, a little slower and with a lot less hassle factor. And we don't borrow money. 100% of our real estate's paid for. I don't borrow money to buy real estate. So, I'm a fan of the category of real estate,

but after that, I've kind of given you some things to think about. Um, so until

you've thought through all of those things and make sure that you've decided how you're going to own what ownership vehicle you're going to own this in with someone that you're not married to. Ooh, real dangerous. Um, you know that that

you get yourself into all kinds of messes here and I think that's what the bank is smelling and that's why they're wanting a huge downstroke. Um but um you

know a a good way to look at any business opportunity too James is to scale it in your mind and if it doesn't scale then don't grow it. Meaning if it

works for 40 Airbnbs we might do four. If it works for four

but not five or not 10 then maybe we

shouldn't do four.

>> Why is that? Well, because it's going to it's the the the idea is not scalable to

where you get out of being the maintenance man.

>> You you you just have to keep absorbing Yeah. >> more work and more work and more work >> and pretty soon you're going to go, I want to quit my job and be Mr. Airbnb, >> right? >> And that's not >> your one Airbnb app change or one Airbnb

municipality change or your one >> Yeah. Apple decides they're not going to support the app anymore. >> That's right. with 13 point whatever. Oh

my crap. You know, I mean all kinds of people. I mean it c that c that little move right there cost us about $20 million two years ago.

>> So uh you know that just cuz Apple decided to cough and so um you know all

that stuff. So these are things you can't anticipate and you leave yourself vulnerable to it when you're just living

right on the wire when you're right on the edge and then you just keep adding to it. Keep adding to the plate till the food falls off, you know. And that's that's what I heard here is a really super busy guy, >> ambitious guy. >> You said this and man, this has become increasingly um

I felt it heavier and heavier. I have a very real lived experience being in the workforce during 2008 2009 and there seems to be a lot of folks who have entered into 2010 to 2025 and it's been seemingly

mostly upside. It's just been win after win after win after win. plus or minus CO. Yeah. >> And yeah, plus or minus CO. And there's the assumption it's just going to keep going that way. And there's no

man, it's tough to tell somebody, hey, you have to be prepared for when this thing goes south a little bit or when the roller coaster takes a, you know, goes down and man, people don't don't have the psychology for it right now.

>> Yeah. I mean, if you've got your thing based on the Airbnb income of four and

suddenly they don't rent for four months, you're in bankruptcy.

Whereas if you own them all in cash, you're annoyed. >> Exactly. >> Or you put or you put renters in. >> Yeah. >> And you get out of the Airbnb business and you move on, you know, and that's it's not a big deal, >> right? >> You know, but yeah, this is it's a problem. Yeah. So, no, I'm um I I I like

James cuz he's ambitious and he's going after it. He's going for it. Um I want to support that, but I I believe in being a nightmare killer, not a dream killer.

>> [music]

[music]

>> This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

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That's yw or that's the letter y

ref.comy.

Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Amy in Mississippi. Amy writes, "I have been dating a kind, loving man for the last three years. We begun talking about marriage and moving in together.

We both like the idea of keeping my house in my name, in his house, in his name, and living the next 10 years in my house, and then the last 10 years of our lives in his house. This is all assuming we both live to be 80 and we can live independently. I've been thinking about our wills and trust, and currently I have all of my assets to be left to my two adult children, and he has all of his assets to be left to his two adult children.

Especially if we're on the same page about doing it this way.

No, it's perfectly fine. Just make sure you've taken care of the one left behind. I mean, you know, so we've hear

the stories of, okay, you're in his house, he dies and leaves it to his kids and they want you to move out in three days cuz they want that money. They want that house. And so, you know, you need to kind of figure out a way. Well, they wouldn't do Oh, yeah, they will. Oh, yeah, they will. Yes, they will, too.

So, you have no idea. So, I'm fine with y'all leaving everything, but just figure out a way that he is cared for if he happens to be living in your home that he gets to live there a year or

something and that there's some and then make sure he's going to have enough money to eat if you die before him and vice versa. As long as you've made sure the other one's in good shape financially and is going to be okay. But if you've got enough money that you're independent, if he dies, you're fine. He you die, he's fine. then that's perfectly fine to do this. But just just make some clear

communications and some clear things in the will to make sure that that you don't get tossed out of the house on short notice or something. I don't want you living there 10 years, but after he dies, but if you if the intent was for the kids to get the house, but but 10 minutes is not okay either. So, you got to kind of think about this stuff and don't just assume everybody's going to be nice. write it down and tell everyone

what it all says and then tell them they're going to do that and then they will that's what they have to do so they might as well be nice you know that that but I don't have any problem with that you >> now would you recommend I I've never even thought about this question let's say two 65 year olds two 70-year-olds in this situation financially established or getting remarried um is this a situation where you'd still have both people put their money in one checking account or are we living pretty independently at this point. And >> I I would operate the household off of one checking account.

Um because we're not talking about the incomes. We're talking about the I mean that I would combine my incomes. >> Yeah. >> And live as one household, but then if one of you dies then that the other one's income is going to go away either because the investments were left to the kid or the p pension dies with the person.

>> There you go. >> Right. So you're back to your half or your portion to live on and and you know just make sure you're able to live on your part. He's able to live on his part when something happens.

If you are, then this is very clean and you could even This is a situation where you could even do a prenup. >> Yeah. And and and >> and it' be fine. >> I'm thinking about this in real time.

I like the idea of us joining >> Sounds like they're 60 >> joining our Yes. joining our money together and saying we have two light bills. We have two water bills because we have two houses together. >> Yeah.

What are they doing with the other house during the 10 years they're not living? >> Guess they're going to rent it out would be my guess.

Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. So, you got to have time to renovate the house that you weren't living in before you have to move back into it because you've been renting it >> for 10 years. Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's a decade. >> That's something to think about. So, >> yeah.

But that that's the only part of this. Just just have a real clearcut a and think through the details >> and write them all out as a part of the plan, as a part of the will, and then talk about it with both your kids. You're getting everything, but she gets to stay here for six months. Yeah.

you know this and so on. So you can you know you that all of that is possible >> and if one of these houses appreciates 200% if we have like what happened that's in your name. >> That's in your name. That's right. >> Yeah. You're you win. Yeah. Your investments appreciate 200% his don't.

>> Or one of yours falls off a cliff.

That's Yeah. >> That's what happened. >> That's how how it worked out. Elisha is with us in Knoxville. Hi Elisha. How are you? >> I'm good. Can you guys hear me?

>> Yes sir. What's up?

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling about a question. My

in-laws want us to pay them back for the money they spent on my wife's unfinished college semester.

>> One semester.

>> Uh, yes. >> Why? >> Uh, well, well, I don't really know where to start with this, but um, I started dating my we got

we got married a couple months ago. When I started dating her, she was in college for engineering and I pretty quickly found out that she absolutely hated it.

Uh she was miserable and it also made me miserable. Uh she also has a heart condition, inappropriate sinus tacoc cardia and it was making that way worse.

Uh she also got really sick in the

spring semester of 25. She came down with double pneumonia and was just unable to keep up with classes. So, um,

she dropped she dropped the semester and

currently she's a ball and dance teacher. She doesn't have plans to go back. Uh, we've got married since then.

Her college up until that point has been paid for by a fund left by her grandfather, but her parents say that they were unable to get the money for that. And, um, from what I am told,

that's about $6,000 that they want us to pay them back. Um, and it's not a lot of

money, but it's a lot of money for us.

>> No. >> Why? >> Are they Are they Are they objectively not good people, or do they not like her marrying you? >> They're really not happy that you got married. >> They Correct. Correct. Um, this first

came up actually as a way to stop us from getting married. >> Yeah. >> Uh, and the main reason that they were against us getting married is they for

since she was like 10, they really pushed her to go to engineering. And when I was talking to them to get permission to propose, um I her mom specifically asked me that

I need to tell her that her degree is the most important thing in the world to me. And I couldn't do that. Um I got permission from her dad, but not her mom. And my mom really doesn't like me.

Um and I we haven't heard anything about

this since we got married.

>> How long you been married? >> Pushing up before then.

>> We've been married since August the 2nd.

And how old are you?

>> 21. >> Okay. All right, honey. This is not going to go well. >> Yeah. Sorry, man.

>> Yeah, I know. >> Yeah. >> I just I I want I want to do everything I can. >> This is not This is not about tuition.

This is about control. >> Yeah. >> I I I know. >> This is a flex.

>> The ultimate flex. And so you just you

just have to look at them and smile and say, you know, I'm sorry. We can't do

that. or really her their daughter needs to do that. >> Yeah. Just tell mom sorry we can't do that. >> Well, I'm sorry we can't do that. Don't

don't get into an argument. Don't try to explain it. Don't try to get into some kind of moral construct because there's not one. This has nothing to do with moral constructs. >> And by the way, is is her are her parents um the in charge of this money

from this fund or could your wife go back to school in five years if she wants to go be a therapist or something?

So, her aunt is managing the fund. Um, I

don't know how much money there is left in it. To be honest, they recently told

my brother-in-law that he has to stop going to the school he's currently going to and go to the community college near them because they there isn't enough money for him to go there. >> Okay. >> Um, >> but that's what that's why they didn't get their $6,000 because there's not any money in there. >> Let me say this as blunt as I can. The relationship that you think you're trying to preserve for your wife is already gone. Has never been there.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. If you repay this, these are still two very unhappy parents.

>> Yes. >> And then there'll be another flex pay >> and another flex. >> Anything at all or would it end up?

>> No. It just kicks the can down the road. It will come up when you have your first kid or it will come up in another >> There's nothing to do. >> No. And you don't have $6,000. That's what's even >> I'm sorry we can't do that. Yeah. I would not say why. >> I would not say when. I would not [music] put terms to it. It's a simple closedended one-s sentence reaction.

Mom, I know you'd like for us to do this. I'm sorry we can't. That's it.

It's over. And it's not going to go well, dude. These guys are going to go off like rockets cuz this is a flex.

It's a It's a boundaryless power play.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, PhD in counseling, Ramsay personality, number one best-selling author. He's my co-host today. Open phones at825-55225.

Warren is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi Warren. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So um we um make a decent income, but

we're living paycheck to paycheck and I got to get this figured out. So I was calling for help. >> Okay, cool. So what's a decent living?

What do y'all make?

Uh well, it now we're making about $140,000 a year collectively. Um I was

laid off for um I'm not laid off for

three years. I was out of full-time work for about three years and was doing part-time work. >> I recently took a full-time job with as

a town job. Um she makes around 9,000

and I make around 50 right at 50,000. So

that brings us to 140. Okay.

>> Um the challenge is I just we make our

mortgage and we make a car payment and

>> how much is your mortgage >> by the time we pay?

>> Mortgage is 21.87 and that's with an

adjustable rate mortgage of a 5.6.

>> Mhm. And what's the car payment?

>> Um car payment is 465.

>> Mhm. What's the other car payment?

>> It's a uh we don't have another car payment. I drive a 2003 Corolla.

>> Gotcha. Okay. So, what do you owe on the car that's you that's a 465?

>> Uh 29,000.

>> Okay. And um uh what other debt have you

got?

>> Um we have one credit card of $4,000 and

then we have my daughter's college loan

which is 50,000.

You have parent plus loan or what?

>> Yes, parent plus loan.

>> Okay. And you're paying on that now?

>> We just started. That's 316.

>> So, she's graduated.

>> Yes, she's working. >> Okay. And what else?

Um, we have a area a um the water

treatment system that's 109

that we owe 6,000 on that.

>> Mhm.

>> And outside of that I we that's it.

>> Okay. >> From a debt perspective. >> Yeah. Do you have any money saved?

>> We have about 4,000 in in savings and we have a little over 500,000 in retirement. Good. Good for you. Okay.

All right. Well, what you've described,

Warren, uh is normal. Uh the only thing

is around here we say normal sucks because all the money comes in, all the money goes out, and only the names are changed to protect the innocent. You make freaking $140,000 a year, and you feel broke.

>> Yeah. True. >> Yeah. >> I'm 56, she's 54, and we're now to the

point where, you know, I You know, we want to retire when we're 67.

>> How How long have you been back to work?

>> Uh, a month. >> Okay. [laughter] All right. >> I got my first paycheck next week.

>> Good. Good. Okay. All right. Good. So,

now you're like, "Okay, we got to fix this. Uh, we've been kind of treading water for a while. Uh, now I'm back in the saddle and let's tear into this.

Now, what do we do?" If that's what you're asking, we can help you. uh the prescription is ra the the the the you know the the prescription that the doctor's going to give you is rather painful though >> we're going to teach you to live like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and give like no one else and so what I will tell you to do is for the two of you to sit down tonight open up the app every dollar and start filling out what you're going to do with this month's money and the two of you be in agreement on what you're going to do with this much money you stop all retirement savings temporarily You stop eating out.

vacation. You're broke and deeply in debt. And you have a mess to clean up so that you don't retire and have to eat dog food cuz that's where you're headed if you don't fix this mess. House is okay. The rest of this debt has got to get paid off. And you know, you've got $85,000 worth of debt. And you got to

quit buying crap on credit. You need to get the credit cards out and cut them up. List your debts smallest to largest.

Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. And attack the little one like your life depends on it. But part of what you're going to have to go through emotionally is you're still recovering emotionally from the time

that you didn't work for a while, which took a little bit of your confidence away. I hear it in your voice.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> And so I want you to get like you're 18 again. to stick your chest out, throw your shoulders back, and get after it again. Okay.

>> Okay. >> I can do that. >> The fact that you didn't work for a little while is not the end of the world. You're working now. You're a good man. You're calling. How can I take care of my family? I got to clean up this mess from my daughter's college tuition.

I got a car that's expensive. We've been spending some money on a credit cards. And we bought a water treatment thing we couldn't afford. And cuz we didn't pay for it. That's how I know we couldn't afford it. So now we got to stop all that crap and get in attack mode and clean up this debt. So making 140, if

you paid 40 on your debts, you'd be debtree other than the house in two years. So you ought to be debtree in 18 months.

>> Okay? >> But you're going to have no life during that 18 months.

>> And you and your wife got to lock arms and go, we're fighting this like the devil is at the door.

>> Right? And if you fight it with

>> me. >> Yeah. She'll go side by side with you.

She stuck with you through this last patch and let's get it, man. And that that's the thing. So, it's a reset of your emotions after the unemployment thing. So, I went broke in my 20s and uh

lost everything cuz I was stupid. And it one of the things I lost with it was some a bunch of my confidence and my self-esteem. And I had to rebuild it in a different way that wasn't just arrogance and cockiness, but instead I rebuilt it just based on solid wisdom

gradually. And uh so I ended up becoming a different man the other side of going broke. And and that's how I can hear that in your voice because I had it in mine and I recognize it.

>> Mhm. >> So you're a good man, Mor. >> I appreciate it. >> You're a good man. You're a good dad.

You're a good husband. you you're not afraid of work and you can do >> you can do hard stuff if you drive an 03 Corolla man, [laughter] >> bro. I've been there. >> It's got 300,000 miles on it.

>> And you know the problem with that Corolla, it's got it's going to go another 600,000 miles before it dies on you, man. >> The only thing I have to pay for is the paint to paint it. [laughter] Spray paint.

>> So yeah, you're in >> I know it's mine in the parking lot. I never >> Will your wife sell that car? Her expensive one? >> Yeah, she will.

Yeah. >> Okay. may want to do that to to accelerate this process to get your life back. Because if you didn't have any payments but a house payment and you two were together doing a budget every month before the month begins, giving every dollar an assignment, you're going to see margin in there.

And that margin will allow you to build wealth that after you get out of debt. And that margin will allow you to increase your generosity.

>> We'll do it. Our conversation this weekend was being a good steward on what God has given us. And um >> a lot here's what's cool. You're calling here in the beginning of December.

Here's a way the cosmos is going to call your bluff. Instead of doing Christmas presents for you this year, I want you to I want you to get that $4,000 credit card gone.

>> I can do that. >> And that can be the great gift you'll give each other is full commitment. And that's going to be better than any trinket or any knick-knack you're going to get under the tree. >> Amen. The two adults that is >> the two grown-ups. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, hang on. We'll get you signed up for the every dollar premium. We'll give it to you as our gift. We want to be part of your story cuz you're going to turn this around. I can feel it.

[music]

>> [music]

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If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click in the description. John, this book is absolutely amazing. I am so proud of Jade. It is the real key to getting unstuck from someone who's been there.

She just speaks from the authority of experience. >> Dude, I had her on my show and it's one of my favorite episodes of all time. It hasn't been released yet, but um I've traveled the country with her. I've shared meals with her and her husband Sam.

They're good friends of ours and I did not know the depth of the story behind the money. >> Oh yeah. >> And if you are >> She tells it all, baby.

and you're also dealing with the guilt part and the shame part and man she un

unravels that in this book. You got to get it. Um it's it's it's next level.

It's so good, man. It's so good.

>> Yeah, I agree. Completely >> gifted gifted writer and storyteller.

>> Yes, she is. Yes, she is. And you're going to you're going to find out that uh she understands right where you are, but also to show you how to go win. And that's one of our specialties around here. So, very, very good stuff. Good tools to win. Casey's with us in Birmingham, Alabama. Hey, Casey. What's up? >> Hey, how are you, Dave? >> Great. How can we help?

>> I appreciate you taking my call. So, my wife and I just recently found out that she was pregnant. Um, it's not like we were necessarily trying to avoid it, but we were not planning on it happening this fast.

Uh my question is I have an emergency fund that's about 6 months uh a little over 6 months. Uh we both drive old cars

that neither one of us have had to have any car payments on. We're completely debtree other than our house and we've been throwing all of our extra money towards our house to get it paid off quickly. So I don't necessarily have a ton of extra money to just pay for cash out of a for a car. So, should I pull my money out of my emergency fund to buy her a a safe uh, you know,

family-friendly car, or would you think that it'd be okay for me to finance the car, but pull all the money that I've been throwing at the mortgage, get the car paid off within the next year to avoid a ton of interest payments?

>> Isn't it fun how a baby on the way just makes you grow up, [laughter]

>> man? I'm telling you. So as as if you would put your wife >> in an unsafe car where she's going to die.

>> Your wife is not driving a car in which she is going to die. You would not have done to that to her before she was pregnant. You love her.

>> Well, well, to be fair, she's had this car for >> To be fair, if you thought she was going to die because this car is unsafe, you would not let her drive it.

>> Have you ever Have you ever seen a newborn

Yes. As you know, pretty much as big as the palm of my hand. >> Exactly. That baby will do great in this

car for 6 months, for a year.

>> Yeah. >> What are you What are you really worried about? Are you just trying to be like the best possible husband and father you can be, and you're just looking for every possible way where you can make this thing world class?

>> I just want She's, if you saw her car, she's in a 2009 Scion XD. It's a little box car with with the door panels.

>> All right. You had me a box car. I may be with you on this one, dude.

>> So, [laughter] the thing is I I mean, I

can afford to save up and pay for it a year from now, but again, she'll be giving birth and be severely pregnant within the next four to 6 months, 7 months, you'll be giving birth. >> Yeah. All right, honey. The baby can ride in that car that you have.

>> It's not a pretty car. >> It will not hurt the baby. It did not hurt your wife. It's a safe enough car.

Is it an ideal car? Absolutely not. It's a piece of crap. But babies have ridden in pieces of crap since time began. And your baby's not going to die from read and you're not a bad dad. And no, this is not an emergency. You just got pregnant and you're thrilled and scared and hyper responsible all of a sudden.

And that's very cool. So, what I want you to do is um you do you have any debt except your home? It sounds like you don't. No, we don't have any debt.

>> Good for you. And don't ever call me and ask me to get a car payment again. I'll kill you. All right. Now, once we got that out of the way, cuz I love you. All right. I'll kill you. So, that's it. So, [laughter] now, so the uh the the uh so what we're

going to do is we're going to just save.

And >> so, the baby is due. Do you have a due date yet?

>> Uh July next year. So, you know, we got

some time. >> So, you got eight months.

Yeah, about seven. >> Okay. How much money can you save by July?

>> Um, about 15 to $20,000 if if we really just

buckle down and I work a bunch of overtime. >> Okay. Well, so the car she's driving is

worth the car she's driving is worth what? Two or $3,000?

>> Uh, yeah. At the most. >> Okay. So, uh, go ahead and pick out the car that she would like. That is $15,000.

And be the month before the baby comes, go buy it and pay cash for it.

>> Okay? >> And don't touch your emergency fund.

>> Okay? >> Save the 15,000 between now and then.

That's a very nice car, by the way.

>> Especially when we compare it to the piece of crap she's driving today.

>> Pretty much anything is a luxury.

[laughter] A Rick Shaw would be nicer than what she's got. >> Yeah, one of those new electric bikes.

Yeah. But yeah, but yeah, the um Man,

>> and by the way, you don't have to go from a 2009 to a tricked out 2025.

>> Yeah. >> No, absolutely not. >> 15,000 will buy a lot of car if you if you watch what you're doing. It's crazy.

>> I I The reason why I called today and asked is I was planning on doing the

saving for the next six months and then shelling all that money out for for a car in cash. But I saw a car that is

essentially what we want and it's has a really good engine, transmission, reliable. It's a it's a decent price, low mileage, oneowner, >> and I said, "Man, I could get this car now and not have to worry about it in 6 months. I don't know if that car is going to be available in 6 months." Oh, believe me, there's another car. >> There will be one.

>> Can I Can I [clears throat] paint you the other side of this?

>> Mhm. >> And I hate to even put this in the ether, but I'm doing this cuz I love you. Is that cool?

>> Mhm. >> All right. Um, you buy this car on a car

note and then your baby is born and there's

some complications and your baby's in NICU for two months or for one month.

Yeah. >> And things get real complicated real fast, but this car note keeps showing up at your door.

I would much rather you have $15,000 in cash about to pull the trigger on a car and you've gone into what we call stork mode around here and you've got some margin to take care of everything until you're holding a nice, wonderful, healthy baby, which I which I'm confident what's going to be.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, listen here. All that happened is you got really excited and hyper

responsible because you're going to be a daddy and that means you're going to be a great daddy and you're a good husband and you care about everything that's involved here and you want to make sure your family's taken care of. And that's caused you to jump the gun and all we're

doing is saying down boy.

>> You're okay. Down boy. >> Stay the course, man. You've done so good. >> You're going to be great. You're gonna be a good dad. But just don't get pregnancy brain. Only one is allowed to have that and that's her. So you you have to just chill. Let's ride this out.

Everything's going to be okay. You could wait till she comes home with the baby before you buy the car even. >> Yeah. Bring it bring the baby home in your car. >> Yeah. And um baby's not going anywhere for a few little while anyway and then everything's fine and then you go out and buy a car that she looks at on the internet and you go buy it and everything's good. >> And the meta lesson here is stop buying box cars.

>> [music]

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>> Henry is with us in Atlanta. Hey Henry, how are you?

>> Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I work as a personal assistant for a client and it's a great job and I love working for her. Um, I've done it for the last two years and over the last two years the scope has creeped quite a bit.

Um, I used to work like 9 to2 and now it's more like 8 to 5 and my pay hasn't changed and I just don't know how to have that conversation of I feel like I'm on call 24/7. I got a call on Thanksgiving to book a flight and I just need my salary to reflect the value that I bring to my client's life and I don't know how to do that. >> What do you make?

>> 4,500 a month as a flat rate.

>> That's low. Yeah. For that >> it is low >> for a 40 hour for a 40hour week. I mean yeah for that position >> and that's not including the weekend calls.

Like I get calls I got a call at 2 a.m. to come get the dog to go to the emergency vet. That was a few months ago. It's just I love my client and I love not having like a corporate job, but I need I'm I'm in baby step two.

I paid off a ton of debt this year and I'm facing down the last 10k and baby steps three and four just seem further and further without side hustles and that's not the point in those steps. >> Exactly. >> Are are you are you looking for more money to stay with this client or are you looking to not have weekend on call 2 a.m.

I would rather have more money and work more. I love to work and I love that I have this very privileged job. Okay.

>> But it needs to be reflected in my pay.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. So, the easiest way to remember to do this is just flip the script as they say, let's walk a mile in the client's moccasins.

if you were the client, okay, and you had someone that was taking good care of you and describe, you know, and and you

probably are aware that you've increased their hours and that you've started to add some weekend stuff. You're probably aware of all that, but you hadn't thought much about it. How would you want to be approached? Well, I'm an employer. I have a thousand folks working for us, okay? Close to,00. All

right? And so how do I want our leaders

to be approached when someone wants to talk about their compensation? Well, number one, with gratitude,

>> with honor, >> definitely >> not belligerance, and not entitlement.

And I didn't hear any of those in your voice, by the way. I'm not correcting you. I'm just helping you. So, I I think you have a very I think your your your voice tone and the way you're approaching this does not have any tinge of spoiled brat or victim in it, which is really what I don't want to hear.

Okay? So, you're you're really already on a good foot. So, I I would just sit down and just upfront just say, "Hey, I'm really enjoying this. I love working

with you. my hours have expanded and and

you seem to be using me more on off hours and um and I'm working to get out of debt and uh I'd like to figure out what I can do for that to end up being

reflected in my paycheck. Can we talk about that?

>> Can I add one wrinkle to that? >> Sure. >> So, in September, I went through a pretty bad health scare. I was diagnosed with diabetes and I had to course correct everything very fast or I would probably not be here December 1st. And I had asked I said, you know, can I get a small raise? And to me it was $500 cuz that would cover all my supplies. And her reaction was, oh, I can't afford that. And then today, um, we were just

kind of talking. She had a meeting with her financial folks and they literally said, "You need to spend more." So, I just I don't know. I feel like the purse is a little bit tight and I don't want to rock the boat too much because again I don't want to go back to the corporate world. >> Well, I think you could go do this for someone else and make twice as much.

>> You're in Atlanta. >> You're in Atlanta.

>> So, jump on jump online and see what what personal assistants

working for someone make in Atlanta, Georgia. I think you're going to find it's more than you're getting paid.

>> Okay, great. >> And let me let me say this. If you have the kind of supervisor

or you have a supervisor/boss CEO, you've got one person who's over everything in your life, right? Um, >> right? >> If that's the kind of person that you can't sit down and have this type of conversation with, that's a person who lacks integrity and just basic kindness

and I don't know that I'd want to work trust my weekends and 2 a.m.'s with that person regardless.

Like I've sat down with Dave and we've discussed things or I've sat down with my leader and we've discussed things and I haven't got what I wanted sometimes and I trust him.

>> We got heard >> and there was good reasons given not I can't afford it and you know >> you know what I'm saying. >> So uh but if they're if they're illogical about this so from an employer's standpoint in general a

position is worth what you can hire the next one for.

>> Right. And so if you're a personal assistant at Ramsay and you're making400

and the next one's going to cost us 6,000 >> then that's the marketplace for that position and that's what that becomes worth. That's very impersonal but that's one way to look at a comp model. Then beyond that that position is worth how long you've been there. My personal assistant Patty has been with me 23 years. She can finish my sentences.

So her worth is worth is much greater

than what the next person in to replace

her and she's retiring and I'm going to have to do that. So which is driving me crazy but yeah but the the >> I'm available. >> Yeah, there you go. But you see what I'm saying? So, but the point being, I mean, she works here in the building and uh and has for all this time, but but the her longevity here and her knowledge base inside this organization makes her more valuable than someone in the marketplace, not less valuable.

And so a ton of sense >> whatever it takes to hire the CEO of an organization like this, a personal assistant, an executive assistant, um

the then Patty's worth more than that, 23 years worth. Okay. And gets paid more than that, by the way. So which is good.

She should I'm happy to do that. So in your case, you know, you're providing extra beyond the normal 40-hour work week because this is a very residential kind of a an arrangement. And that's cool. Well, I like that. I think it's a cool service you're providing. Uh, and I I think your client may be a bit unsophisticated in their analysis of what this costs.

So, you might have to even provide go, hey, look, I'm not trying to leave or anything, but I looked it up and here's what some other people are making doing this. And it kind of made me think, what do I need to do better to be able to be worth that to you? And because this is what, you know, if you hire somebody else, this is what you'd have to pay.

and just help help your client's level of knowledge base. Uh but not in a belligerent way, not in a threatening way and be very very careful. Um and but

that approach it like you would want to be approached where the shoes reversed.

Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. Jesus called that the golden rule. And and let me let me throw this out there, Henry. Prepare yourself for her to look at you and say no. And then you're gonna have um most people, I

don't say most people, many people will head online and talk bad about their boss and they don't do this, they don't do that. I would call you to a higher form of character, which is to say, "All right, cool. I have a grown-up decision to make.

Do I want to stay in this job at this pay >> at this pay >> because my boss has been clear or do I want to look for another um person like this CEO and because I like this work or I don't want to go back to corporate America but right now I have some financial needs and so for the next two to three to five years I'm going to go do that. But it's you looking in the mirror and saying okay here's what I can control and I'm not going to be a complainer. I'm not going to be a whiner.

I'm gonna say, "Okay, I shot my shot and she said no, and then I've got to make some grown-up decisions now." >> Yeah, that's exactly right. That's good, good input.

so that that's very good, Henry. And I I I you know, my hope is is that you can provide some facts in the type of voice

tone that you used with us. And um and

those facts also would give you some confidence to have the conversation and make it very serious conversation, not a threat. Uh but this is what's going on.

And so, you know, if one of our developers comes in and goes a developer that's a, you know, a dev dev 3, you

know, they make 220,000 in the market right now, you guys are paying me 180.

We go, "Oh my gosh, let's look at that. We must have messed up something." >> Let me let me ask you this, Dave. over the years when an employee has come to you and said, "I have this thing in my life and I need more money versus

hey, here's what the market is. Here's >> I don't Their need for money is only that's a ministry. >> We do that. That's just generosity, but I'm not changing your comp." >> There you go. That's what I was getting at. But when someone comes and says, "Hey, my hours have increased. My responsibilities have increased. This is the market. Now we're having a business conversation." >> And that's a reasonable conversation.

That's a job. Yeah. But beyond that, it's me taking care of somebody that I love. There you go. That's generosity.

But that's not a comp discussion.

Our

scripture of the day, Job 17:9, the righteous will hold to their ways and

those with clean hands will grow stronger.

James Clear says, "You don't have to be the victim of your environment. You can also be the architect of your environment. There it is. I like that.

Alyssa's in Chicago. Hi, Alyssa. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

>> So, I had a question um regarding rent.

Um, I was wondering if you recommend to

stay living at home, which is my current situation at my parents house, paying

$1,000 towards my parents' rent or

moving out.

>> I'm I'm taking it since you're calling.

It's not a good living environment.

You know, I'm the oldest of four kids.

So, I'm 30 years old and the youngest is

19. And so, we get in a bit of tiffs

here and there. >> Okay. Why are you back living at home?

Why are you living at home at 30 years old?

So, I did move out a couple years ago um

in the city with my ex-boyfriend and things didn't work out. So, I've decided to move back home and hammer down paying

off a debt. I paid off 10k in student

loan debt. So, I cleared that out.

>> What do you make? >> I saved up 70k.

>> 70,000 and you're 30 years old. Okay.

And um what do you do for a living?

I am a digital content specialist, but I'm looking to pivot into UI and UX design.

>> You're looking to pivot into what?

>> UI and UX design, visual experience design. It's like web development and like app design.

>> Okay. And that would pay more.

>> Yeah. Significantly.

>> Okay. So, if you're home cleaning up like I'm 30, I've got some I made some

choices. I that I that dug me a hole. I got to clear myself out. >> How long you been back >> then? That's one thing, but

>> I want to say like two or three years and I was able to save up an emergency fund of I think like 3 to six months. I

forget exactly, but like a 12K emergency fund. And then I also saved up 15K for a

car that I would eventually buy. And then I'm saving up for like furniture.

>> Okay. >> Or I'll just

>> at 30 years old, if you're not sick and

you haven't been abused, uh you there's no reason for you to be at home. You need to be like a grown-up woman and stuff and go have a life.

You're freaking 30 years old. You make $70,000 a year. What the heck are you doing in your mother's basement? Yes.

Move out. Yeah, for sure.

Yeah. Buy your own milk, girl. Buy your own electricity. Yeah. You do not need to be living under mommy's roof at 30 freaking years old. You've stunted your development. Yeah. Stand up. Square your shoulders. Go be somebody. It's time.

It's past time. Like three years past

time. You know, if someone goes through

a let's say that she went through an abusive thing with a boyfriend and she comes back home to heal a little bit, six months or something like that. So, we want to provide a safety net for our

grown kids, but not a hammock.

>> This is ridiculous. That's a good line. You need to get out of here. >> Yeah.

>> Well, and and you said it best. There's a there's a safe place to be. Let me say this. Like, it's like going to the hospital when you're sick, but you got to leave the hospital or you're never going to get stronger again.

and you got to go back out and let your immune system do its work. You got to let your bones do its work. Let your muscles do its work. You got to get back out there and it's uncomfortable, but you got to get back out there.

unless there's something you're not telling us, which I I have in my guts that you are, but yeah, it's time for you to go get your own place and get back out there and join a bowling league or go join a book club, join go do something, but get back around other adults your age. Um, and don't hang around. >> Neither of which go bowling. But yeah.

>> No, dude. They're coming back. Bull leagues are coming back. >> Is it really? It's zooming back.

>> It's ironic. It's like James in his tight shorts and Fender guitars. Like these guys are bowling again. It's coming back, man. >> The cool the cool kids are bowling.

>> I don't I wouldn't call Yes. >> You just made all that up. >> No, I'm serious. I'm serious. I read about it. You could They're They're coming back because here's the thing.

Kids lives are awful on screens and they're like, "We got to start doing something." >> And bowling was the answer.

>> One of many answers.

>> Wow. I like the a good bowl.

>> You do? >> I'm terrible at it. I'm the worst.

>> Oh, I would say >> I'm worse at bowling than I am at golf.

And you know how bad I am at that. >> Yeah, you're happy Gilmore for sure.

>> I'm not good at that. >> Yeah, teeing it up in the fairway. Yes, he did. He did do that, boys and girls.

I watched it happen. All right, so yeah, honey, you need to move out. That's no question. Okay, next is Tristan in [laughter] San Francisco. Hey, Tristan. What's up?

>> Hey, Dave. Hey, John. How are you guys doing? >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

Um, so I'm going to be proposing to my girlfriend and we agree on most financial things. Um, I've been talking about not using credit cards or building a credit score like Dave teaches, but I

struggle uh to explain how people get approved for things like apartments without a credit score when landlords check it. And so my question really is, how do people practically live without a credit score? And how can I explain that to her? >> They do all the time. There's a few landlords that check it, but we did uh we've had George got on his YouTube show and called a whole bunch of apartments and every one of them took him in the he he just said, "Hey, I'm moving to town.

I don't have a credit score. I just got out of school. Uh you rent to me." And they went, "Yeah, no." You know, you have month, two months deposit, whatever. And yeah, we'll rent to you.

Just proof. You need proof of employment. But u I think I think two out of like 20, like 10% of them said they wanted a credit score or they wouldn't rent. The rest of them said, "Sure." That's mythology that everybody spreads. It's absolute freaking lie.

When you actually do when you actually start calling apartments, they rent to you.

>> Yeah. The same thing with housing.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Some mortgage companies don't know how to do a no credit score loan, but again, George and uh you know,

George and his wife got Whitney, they got married, met here, got married here and um well, they're both working here and they went and bought a home with no credit score from Church Hill Mortgage and um somebody else did >> I me I do the same thing. They do manual underwriting. >> It's called manual underwriting. Yeah, you do it with a no credit score all the time.

You just got to But not all mortgage companies know how to do it. So you can't just walk into any old mortgage company because a lot of them are dumb.

That's credit score lending. There's no brain involved. They just they just could depending 100% on the algorithm.

>> But it's mythology because it's not a measure of financial health. Yeah. If I gave you $10 million, your credit score wouldn't change.

>> Mhm. >> So it has nothing to do with your wealth. It's not a wealth score. It's like a dating app for how well you've dated um debt in the past.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I tried to explain that to her one time, but I didn't really have the words to tell her. Um she's really good at paying off her credit cards and >> Oh, well, >> she uses them, but she >> Let me tell you what I am, too, cuz I don't have any.

>> Yeah, >> I'm really good at it, too. >> I'm I'm I'm not good at it. So, I've been uh >> Hey, how old are you, Trist? >> Rid of them now. >> Uh I'm 24. >> All right. I learned this lesson in an embarrassing way in front of a college president at the age of 28. Okay. So, you got a four-year head start on me.

You ready for this advice?

>> Yes. >> Never enter into a persuasive argument without knowing your facts and figures.

>> Mhm. >> So, if you think I should you shouldn't have a credit score and she says, "Why?" And you go, "Uh, >> I heard on radio >> cuz there's this podcaster. He's awesome." And then you're going to lose that. So do your homework on that and that'll be work in your marriage and at your workplace. >> Yeah. And just you know you can jump online. There's plenty of our clips and

things you can get on explains how the whole algorithm works and everything on the credit score. It's a complete charade.

100% of the math in in the algorithm to

build your credit score has to do with how you interface with debt. It is not your income. It is not your net worth.

It is not anything to do with health or wealth when it comes to anything. All it is is did you borrow money? Did you pay it back? What kind did you borrow? How much did you borrow? It's an I love debt score.

And if you don't love debt, you get a real low one. I've had a zero credit score for decades. It's not

determinable. That's what they call it.

N. That's what I am. I'm an ND. I like it.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 259. You Can’t Hack Your Way Out of Debt | September 11, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author and host of the Ramsey Network. Dr. John Deloney Show is

my co-host today. Open phones here at88255225.

Joan is in Florida. Hi Joan. How are you? >> I'm good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a question. I would like to know

if if it's okay if I lock my husband out

of my savings account.

Wow. Tell me more. Sounds pretty dramatic. >> Yeah, it is. Um, we've been married for 45 years. Um, uh, probably 20ome years

ago, we got into some credit card debt, a lot of credit card debt to the point where we had to take out a second mortgage. Um, I also borrowed against my 401k and it took probably 10 years to

claw out of that debt. And I mean, we were really good about budgeting and um now we are we've have our home paid off.

All our cars are paid off. We had absolutely no debt until probably the

last year. Um I picked up a second job before to help, you know, get the this debt out. Well, I've since left my second job and um we are just spending I

say we, it's not really we, it's him. um

is just spending way more than what we're bringing in >> on what? >> Um oh just he is just he bought a boat,

he's bought a truck to pull the boat, he's bought uh road bikes, he's bought

mountain bikes. Um he has gone through

$40,000 in savings in the last year

buying these things. >> What is your all's net worth?

um net worth. Our home is worth probably

650,000.

I have uh 650 in my 401k. Um I had

50,000 in savings and now I have I guess there's about eight in there now. And >> you keep using the word I. >> How much does he have in his 401k?

>> Nothing. >> Okay. So you have a net worth of a million and a half dollars give or take.

>> Correct. >> And your household income is what? It's

82 between the two of us. It's 82,000.

>> And you guys are in your 60s.

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And so what kind of midlife crisis is this dude having at 60?

>> He is he's saying that he wants to get all these things bought before he retires and he plans on retiring next year. So he wants to enjoy his life. Um

we sort of had a significant event happen in our family. Um, we had a

family member of ours who just worked himself to death and died in his 40s and

um didn't enjoy life at all. Didn't enjoy any of the money that he made. So, um, my husband was like, "Well, he's not going to do that. He's not going to be like that." >> It doesn't sound like the problem is the boat or the truck.

It sounds like you come home from working your second job and all a sudden there's a new boat in the driveway. >> Oh, I hate it. I look out there and I see it and I >> No, no, no, no, no.

>> That's the problem.

>> I agree. >> You didn't you didn't know this. You didn't go along with these purchases.

They just occurred.

>> No. Well, I did go along with the boat, but I didn't realize he was going to spend as much as he did on it. And I didn't realize that um he it I mean, he

just keeps putting more money into it.

>> For people that have been married 45 years, you all suck at communication.

>> Yeah. Not good.

>> Yeah, I agree. I agree. or did he just change it on you? Have y'all been communicating well for a decade and then all of a sudden this went sideways?

>> Um, no. No, this isn't this isn't new.

Um, we've never really agreed on finances. Um, you know, I'm I'm more of

let's save, let's put it aside, and he's more of let's enjoy it. It's just gotten it's just gotten bad in the probably last year. >> Joan, I I appreciate your frustration and um and even your anger and those are justified. All right. But the problem is

not the savings account. That's the symptom.

>> Okay. >> The problem is you all are not aligned.

>> I agree 100%. >> You're not unified. And so I don't think I'm hearing you say, cuz you said, "I went along with the boat." I don't think I'm hearing you say that you're opposed to enjoying some of the money. Uh, what

I do hear you say is you don't like being surprised and um and people

running roughshod over your hard work while you're working two jobs.

>> Yes. >> And that that's fair. >> Second job. >> Yeah, that's fair. >> I gave up the second job. Yeah.

>> But to compare your all's life in any stretch of the imagination to the 40-year-old workaholic, he's not even on the same planet. So, you can't use that as a justification to do something stupid and lie to your wife.

>> It's the dishonesty. Yeah.

Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you really do for the sake of

I mean, if you're in your 60s and you guys are healthy, you may have to be fighting with this old man for another 30 years.

>> So, you need y'all need to really work on this and get on the same stinking page >> because I agree. >> Yeah. Sharon and I make more money and have more money and I don't buy any boats without Sharon knowing what the boat costs and make and we make the decision together beforehand. And if the boat involved a truck to pull the boat, we would be talking about that, too.

We don't just make this up as we go. When I come home and go, "See what I did, honey?" And we've been married 43 years and I'm 65 years old.

>> Okay. >> And here's the other side of it. He's not on the phone. So, just you are.

>> Yes. >> The Gottmans are um

like kind of the goats when it comes to marriage research. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And they created this thing called the the the four horsemen of the relationship apocalypse. They can tell with 90 plus percent accuracy after watching a couple communicate just for a little bit whether they're going to make it or not. And the the relational

dynamic of contempt where one person

thinks they are better than the other person is the number one predictor that this thing's not going it's going to fall apart.

And listening to your language, this is mine. I put this in my account.

He has nothing.

I'm wondering if there's not a dynamic in your marriage that has established itself over the years of you're the good one and he's the bad one.

>> Yeah. >> You're the you're the you're the smart one. You're the one who saves and he's the child. And these dynamics have a way of self-reinforcing themselves.

Doesn't give a pass. It doesn't give an excuse for his dishonesty, his lying to his wife, his his >> impulsiveness. >> Yeah. Acting like a child.

But it creates a context for where if you're going to treat me like a child for 40 years, I'm going to act like a child. Doesn't excuse it. And if he was on the phone with me, Dave and I'd be letting him have it. But you have to say, "This is a dynamic that we have co-created for 40 years where I think I'm better than him because I make more money or I had a second job or I have retirement." >> The quality of his soul would be greatly increased if the two of you could mutually respect each other, dignify each other with being in agreement before we make major decisions.

>> There you go. And that usually starts >> and that also includes combining ownership of everything.

of stuff. >> And when you sit down to have conversations about um feeling dishonest, whatever, if you sit down and say you went out and did this again and you did this, he's going to fight you.

He has to. You've declared war. If you sit down and say, "Hey, I'm hurt. I'm scared. I feel this way. Start the conversation with I statements and that can be an invitation. And then if he continues to act like um a child, then we're going to have to respond in some different ways. But you got to reset this whole communication pattern.

>> Yeah. I I you guys got to work on your skills. That's it. Your skills are low.

And that may mean sitting down with a marriage counselor who's not who's teaching you how to develop these skills.

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Brooke is in Pennsylvania. Hi, Brooke.

How are you?

>> I'm okay. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Oh, hi Dave. I appreciate you taking my call. >> Sure. >> Um, so just a little backstory.

I'm 27 years old. I'm a single mom finishing my MBA. I work full-time and I raised my three-year-old son mainly on my own. Um, I live with my nana, but I would like to move out sooner rather than later due to differences and just wanting to move forward in life.

>> Okay. I do have some student loans and a little credit card debt, but I feel like I'm in a constant cycle of just, you know, just trying to keep up because my income is not very high. >> What's your income?

>> Okay. And you're finishing an MBA when?

>> Uh March 2026.

>> So 6 or eight months. Okay.

>> Yeah. And I do currently have my bachelor's in computer science. Uh, >> why are you making 20 bucks an hour then?

>> Uh, because I only work as a customer service representative. I'm having >> You have a You have a four-year degree in computer science.

>> Oh, I mean I I I know. I I I apply to jobs constantly and I graduated in

August of 2024. So, I've been out of school for quite some time.

>> Yeah. Okay. So, your career search

process is not working.

Thus, you have a horrible income compared to your education.

>> Your MBA is not going to make this any better. >> Yeah. >> If we don't fix the career search process.

Agreed.

>> I I definitely agreed.

>> Yeah. Let me let me promise you that they're not going to suddenly start calling you just because you got an NBA.

And there's a weird moment where the NBA might be a liability because they don't want to pay somebody an NBA salary who doesn't have the experience that that NBA salary would require. Does that make sense?

>> You might find yourself. >> You might find yourself in a in a leadership gap. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah, we got to get we got to get your career moving, kiddo. That's the issue.

>> What challenges have you had?

I think the main challenge is just that

my I have to work from home because I have no help with my son.

>> Oh, >> and that's a major >> Yeah, that that's an issue. Yeah.

>> What about child care? Are is this not something you want to do?

>> It's not something I necessarily want to do. Um I did recently try it. Uh my my

son had a hard time adjusting. Plus, it's just so expensive. >> Yeah. >> And with just my income, it's just hard to make it. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, if you suddenly start making $80,000 a year and you put him in daycare, this whole thing changes >> and he's going to adjust, >> right?

>> Right. >> Kids do every day and there will be a tough adjustment period. He's been with you every day since he was born and there will be a tough adjustment period.

>> But yeah, I think I think the problem is >> I'm not sure where to go from here because I I I probably have applied to

3,000 jobs if I'm being honest.

>> Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Yeah.

So, here's the thing. Applying for jobs never works. You can't get jobs that way. Um, and I'm going to walk you through what to do, and we're going to give you some help on that part.

>> Um, but part of the problem was is you demanded to work from home and be a full-time mom while people were paying you for working, and they didn't want to do that, and I'm not shocked by that.

>> I wouldn't hire you either

under those circumstances, okay? Because I know what you're doing. You're changing diapers. You're not working.

That's the employer's viewpoint. Okay?

Work from home productivity sucks.

Corporate America and people that hire people know that, including me. Okay?

And so this idea that you get a full day's work out of somebody when they work from home. No one is under the illusion that's happening.

And it's all in the name of work life balance and I want to be with my child.

All of that's great. You just got to decide some options here. So, if you want to work from home, you are limiting the the quality and the number of positions you can get making 70, 80, $100,000 a year by 90%.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> So, you you can't this is not an option for you in this situation. You have too many competing goals.

I want to be home full-time with the kid and I want to make a lot of money. These are competing goals. And so, I don't blame you for that. Those are all legitimate feelings and legitimate goals, but you know, you're, as you said, I'm a single mom and so I'm boxed in this corner.

So, there's a period of time here that um that we're going to pay a price to get this family, this little tiny twoerson family stabilized and sustainable. Now, back to the other thing, the practical parts of looking for a job.

have uh we hired at Ramsey, we have,00 team members. Last year we hired uh just under 200 people. Okay.

>> Uh we had 15,000 applications.

That's what you that's what you're putting your your name in. >> It's known as a needle in a hay stack.

Okay. So, you don't get through to good

positions simply by filling out things

on uh LinkedIn and on whatever other

automated resume posting process you're using is to get 3,000 applications in.

3,000 applications tells me you had absolutely no contact. You just filled out the stuff and went and it went right in there and and no one saw it. It's one of the 15,000 that came in here and we only hired 200. But I'll also tell you every person when I've called HR and said,"I know this person Steve or I know

this person Susan and she's applying for a job here," a 100% of them have gotten an interview. >> Not all of them get hired. >> They don't all get hired, but they at least they it puts them to the stack.

>> So, you got to know someone or know

someone that knows someone that knows someone that says, "Hey, my friend's friend Brooke is solid. She's finishing up her MBA. She put in an app over there the other day. Hey, would you guys at least give her a look?

And you got to work the phones that way. You got to work the emails that way. And it it could be somebody down the street. It could be somebody your granny plays bridge with.

Their grandkid works over there. I don't care. But some connection. It doesn't have to necessarily be a professional connection.

wife the other day, a lady that she

was playing bridge with, a lady, the grandkid applied here at Ramsey. So then the grandkid gets a look. I don't think we hired that one. But they get a look and they wouldn't have got a look otherwise. And you're not getting a look. That's the problem. >> Yeah. >> So Ken Coleman calls this the proximity principle to get in proximity of the people doing what you want to do. What field are you wanting to go into other than it?

I mean I I I mainly look at positions for software developers, but again it's

>> Are you are you are you you have the ability to write code?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I do. >> Current code.

>> Um maybe not up to date. I mean, I definitely could learn it if it was something that they would, you know, give me the ability to do.

>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, your information systems, your four-year degree would give you the ability to do more than just write code. and your code if you're going to be if you're going to simply crunch code. Um, yeah, you're

going to have to really be cutting edge on that to get that position. So, anyway, I'm going to put you on hold.

We're going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Proximity Principle. I'm also going to send you a book called Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. But my advice to you would be to decide what it is that's most important and become comfortable with the discomfort of that decision. Okay? If it's most important that I go make 80 to $100,000 a year moving towards my MBA. Otherwise, there's no point in getting this MBA.

You're just collecting degrees. You're not a thermometer. Okay? So, you just keep going along, going along, going along. And so, decide where it is I'm going to go and then what I've got. The the Earl Nightingale used to say that the impediments to success are not what you're willing to do to get there. It's what you're willing to give up to get there. And so if I'm going to be out in my own apartment and we're going to have a sustainable income, it's not making $20

at Target um to grow our life together with this baby. It's going to involve some daycare

and it's going to involve being at the workplace or the other trade-off is you're going to be you're going to be at Nana's. >> I'm going to be at Nana's for seven more months until this little one goes to preschool and then I'll make that move.

But it's all going to come with a choice. And I think Dave, the challenge that people in her demographic, they went and got the degree everybody told them to get and they said at the college, you're going to make this much money when you graduate. People thought, a that means I can live wherever I want to have this stuff all right when I walk out the door and you've got an a third challenge, which is you're a single mom.

>> I want to be at home. >> And so you're going to have to make some sacrifices short term and really get on the phone, start calling everybody you know and every friend of everyone you know. And that's going to be your way in the door right now. >> And their friends. Yeah. And that g get a get somebody to pull your application out of that needle in the haststack.

[Music]

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David is in Pennsylvania. Hi, David. How are you? >> Uh, good afternoon. Fine. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, just wanted to call in. Um, a company is uh switching a little bit of uh staffing model. Uh currently we have company cars uh and company paid gas

cards affiliated with that. Uh we're going to switch that over and I have to turn that in by the end of the calendar year here. Um we're going to get a tax-free stipend uh and mileage paid

from the company going forward into next year. Um so I just wanted to talk

through that with you guys and see what uh some of the best ideas would be. Some of the guys I uh work with are talking about leasing or getting something brand new. Um my wife and I, we've been on

your program for a while, so we we know where you stand with taking loans out on cars. >> Good. >> We haven't had a car payment since 2018.

>> Good. >> So, we're in there. I just feel a little

um up here. Number one, it's obvious and

we'll just say it out loud to make sure everyone knows. The reason the company is doing this is it saves them money.

Translation, it's going to cost you money.

>> Okay? The net net effect of this whole thing is you're going to it's a pay cut.

Okay? So, because by the time you operate a vehicle, the stipen doesn't cover it. They know that or they wouldn't be doing this. And so, there's no other reason to do this. and that's why they're doing it. But that's that's neither here nor there. It's still happening. Um and that that's where we

are. Does the uh how many miles a year do you drive?

>> Uh I'm pretty fortunate. You know, I would say 15,000.

>> Oh, so you're not you're not you're not a road warrior then. Okay, good.

>> No. >> So, uh they they're going to give you the stipend whether you have a car payment or not, right?

>> Yes. >> Do they have guidelines on the on the age of the vehicle or anything?

Yes. It It can't It cannot be uh It's got to be less than 8 years old.

>> Okay, cool. All right. Do you have any money?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, go buy a car. Wait a minute.

Oh, you don't have a car? Cuz you're only running You don't have a second car now, right? You already >> uh we we do we have two other cars, but

the one my wife uses to run around with the kids. The other car I have is is uh

12 years old. And >> Okay. take some money in the 12-y old car and upgrade >> to a 5-year-old car with cash and then

take the stipen.

>> Okay. >> No, no payments. >> Just pay just pay myself back out of a stipen then. >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz here's the thing. If if something happens, god forbid, and the company goes broke or they lay you off or fire you or you decide that they're unethical and you have to walk out one day, uh you still got a car payment.

>> Yeah. Or here's what's going to happen.

They start by not letting people go and they get rid of this pro. They get rid of the everyone gets a car program to a stipen program. The next cut they make, they're going to couch it as we didn't have to lay anybody off, but we had to make some sacrifices and it's going to be the removal of the car stipened.

That's what's going to happen. >> But you're but you got the car payment independent of whatever they do. And so you don't take a car payment. No. Um, and and you know, I think you probably upgrade your car a little bit anyway if you got the cash to do it. Uh, put a little bit with a 12-y old car and get a 5-year-old car or whatever and and then collect that money, put it in your pocket, get your mileage, put it in your pocket, and uh know that the good news

is with you because you're not driving any miles, you're just driving back forth to work. I mean, 15,000 is nothing. So, uh, a little bit more than

that, but I mean that's not that's not like high miles. Road Warriors are putting 40 50,000 miles on a car. So, um, uh, um, the good news is with you, I

might be wrong. You might actually net out on this. >> It could be. Yeah.

>> The more miles you put on it, the worse this is going to be for the other people in the company. They're going to lose their butts. >> I give this program 18 months. I I I'm

willing to bet that this is a phase out of we're taking care of our employees vehicles and this is a way they're going to phase this out.

>> Even if it's not a planned phase out uh you know 36 months from now you got a new CFO and they're looking at the whole thing again. We're trying to meet beat stock price and >> whatever the thing is whatever it is I don't know >> we can let go have to necessarily be with malice. No >> or forethought or evil but it's just it's just corporate America. They're going to look out for one thing and it ain't you, >> right?

>> And so, uh, but either way, yeah, take the stipen and put the money in your pocket and upgrade with cash >> and don't count on it. Don't start budgeting it. I mean I mean obvious I I mean budget it, but don't start pretending it's forever and >> which is what people do when they take a car payment. That's exactly right.

>> Well, company gives me $4 $500 and that means I need to go get a $550 car payment, right? >> Nope. That's not what it means. Mary's in Louisiana.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. How can we help?

Um, I am wondering if it is a wise decision to be paying for life insurance on my mom to protect myself financially

from my parents' financial irresponsibility when she passes away.

>> You're not responsible for their irresponsibility when she passes away.

>> Right. And and that is what my husband has um recently been trying to

>> not only morally but legally or not.

>> Okay. So, if your mom your mom if your mom tell me about your mom's situation.

How much how much debt does she have?

>> It's got to be over $100,000.

>> Okay. Do they own anything?

>> Not outright. >> No. But I mean, do they like have a house?

>> Yes. >> They have cars with car payments.

>> They still they have no car payments.

They still owe on their house. My mom is 66. My dad is 61. Um >> Okay. So, if you were to guess, if you added up all of their debts, do they even h own enough to cover their debts?

>> No. >> No. >> Okay. That's called a negative net worth, right?

>> Yeah. >> And so, what happens when someone passes away? When you die, what you own stands

good for what you owe.

>> Okay. >> There's no generational debt in America.

>> It doesn't get passed down to me.

The other half of the reason on why I did it is because um my if my dad passes

away first, my mom is going to be okay.

And then I guess it with what you just explained, I wouldn't inherit any of the debt. I would just have to clean up the mess and close it out.

>> Oh. Yeah. You just send them all a death certificate with a letter that says you're screwed >> and they'll go away. Okay.

>> They may have to sell this home if you had your eyes on this house. >> Yeah. Yeah, you don't get to keep anything of theirs.

>> They're going to sell the house. >> I'm not expecting anything at this point. >> Okay, I see. But I mean, but if you wanted to keep the house, now you got to go clean up the mess cuz the house is standing good for the debt. Even if it's not a direct lean on the house. What you own down one column versus what you owe

down the other column. Assets minus liabilities. That's how it stacks out.

And you have to sell all the assets to pay all the liabilities. If there's anything left, it's called an inheritance. If there's nothing left and it's in the hole, the bank is screwed.

They shouldn't loan these people money.

They get what they deserve. >> Mary, I'm going to ask Dave a question on your behalf. Okay.

>> So Dave, let's say there's a house worth 350 grand. It's got a hundred,000 bucks left on the on the mortgage. So there's 250 in equity and this family owes

$270,000 in 401k loans and whatever. Who

is responsible for selling the house?

and you have to would she as the as the

trustee or the beneficiary um or the person the executive of the will would she have to sell the house and then disperse the the equity of that house or does she just hand the keys over and say merry Christmas y'all do get out. >> You could do either one. Even if you're the executive you could do either one.

You could just say I choose not to invest a year of my life to get you people all paid and I get nothing. So, the credit card companies and the car dealerships would have to sue the mortgage company or >> they'd have to put leans on the house >> and then after the foreclosure, if there was anything left on the house, then they would get that. But, yeah, it just depends on what how much trouble you want to go to, okay? >> And how much of your life you want to invest in quote sweeping up the the mess after the garage sale.

And so, um, but you're not obligated to.

died with like 14 credit cards and he was in an apartment and he had nothing.

So, that's a simple one, right? You really did just send them a copy of the death certificate and a note that says you're screwed and those credit card companies got what they deserve, which is nothing cuz they shouldn't have been loaning that guy money, right? He's a palper and so they you know that that's an easy one to clean up. doesn't take much time and you know don't call me

>> and they're probably going to try to chase down their money, call you, threaten you, whatever. >> I just jump in the creek. I don't owe you anything. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I didn't You ain't got my signature, buddy. >> Yeah. >> So, that that's the deal. And that's that. But >> much better thing would be if you could get mom and dad to actually work on this. I know you probably tried, hun.

Wow. That's so sad.

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[Music]

If you died tomorrow, how would your family keep up with a mortgage and pay groceries and feed the kiddos? And if anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance. That's just basic adult responsibility. How do you choose from all the options out there? Well, we have told people for 30 plus years, the only thing to do is just buy term life insurance. It's very inexpensive. 15 to 20 year level term,

10 to 12 times your income. So, if you make $50,000 a year, you need 500 to 600,000. That simple. And it's really not that expensive. If you're in your 20s and 30s is about the cost of a pizza. And so, you got to take care of your family. If you want to know more about this, just go to the term life insurance guide. It's free. You can get it at ramseyolutions.com/termlifeguide

or click the link in the description and we'll take you straight there. John is in Arizona. Hey John, how are you?

>> Hey John or hey, sorry. Hey Dr. John and Dave. >> Oh, you can call me John. That's what my mama calls me. That's perfect. What's up? >> Perfect. Thanks for taking some time.

Um, hey, so we just our family, we just finished building a home. We moved in last month. Uh during the construction, we were able to cash flow a good amount and the remaining mortgage is $600,000.

We're still working to sell our old home, which uh it's paid for. We should be getting around $500,000 from that sale. We have about $880,000 between

investments and retirement and $100,000

in cash that has our emergency fund and some earmarked funds to landscape our new home. Uh, the question is with the 500,000 from the sale of the old home, I'm I'm kind of wrestling with not wanting my net worth to be so topheavy with home equity versus investments, which is what it would be if I put it all towards that mortgage. Just want to get your advice. >> What's your household income?

>> It's right around between 300 and 400 depending on the year. >> Okay, good. Way to go. And what's your uh what's the new home worth?

>> Um, total we cash flow about a million.

And so it would be about 1.6.

>> Okay. All right. Yeah. You're you're you know your house is a high percentage of your net worth and you're not going to get away from that. You made that decision when you decided to build a $1.6 million house.

>> Yep. It kind of got away from us there.

>> Yeah. That doesn't change. Scope creep is what got you. It wasn't the uh it it really isn't the the um the net worth situation doesn't change if just because you're hi you can't hide from it now by not paying off the mortgage. It doesn't accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. So, what I would do is um

you know, I'd get that mortgage paid off as quick as I could. You got 500 to throw at 600 when the other house sells.

And then I'm going to take a chunk of my other money and knock out that last hundred. Might use some of that emergency fund instead of putting the bushes in for right now. Let's get the stinking thing paid off and I'm going to get it paid for. Uh and then I'm going to start moving in that direction.

So the the what what we've discovered to answer your overall question philosophically so to speak not really philosophically but practically that that's your tactical answer that I just gave you. Now strategically your answer is this.

As we were working with wealthy people, what we find is the larger their net worth, the smaller the percentage of

their net worth is on personal things.

Home, cars, vacation homes, toys,

whatever. The smaller your net worth, the higher the percentage is on your home. So, for instance, if your net worth's a half a million dollars and you had 300,000 of the half a million in a

paid for house, that's not disturbing.

That would be fairly normal.

But that's about your ratios and you're sitting there with about a $4 million net worth,

three and a half, right? And you got half your net worth right now sitting in your house. So, that's starting to be disturbing. It's not anything to panic about, but we're not buying um any more

personal crap on the net worth column side for a while. You just did it.

You're house poor. Not technically house poor, but you see what I'm saying? You need to get the balance back, rebalance your net worth, and because by dumping everything into other investments that are non-personal investments over the next whatever number of years to where when we look up in a few years, you have a $10 million net worth. And of that, the house has doubled and it's 3 million. Now, that starts to be pretty comfortable.

But like I talked to a guy the other day that, you know, we were looking at his numbers. He's got a $100 million net worth and a $10 million house. So his

net worth is only his house only 10% of his net worth at that and yours is over 50%. So that that's the but again that that follows with the line of thinking of the higher your net worth the smaller

the percentage of your net worth is going to be in personal home cars vacation homes toys so on and so um you

know you take a billionaire and they've got an $8 million jet and the billionaire has a couple of homes they still it doesn't add up to even 6% of

their net worth in personal consumption

and so that that that again validates the concept of the higher the net worth, the smaller the percentage. So, but yours is as high as your net worth is, I I don't disagree with you, John. It's a little bit unnerving to be there, but being in debt doesn't change it.

>> Well, and you called it out. This call should have happened before we we decided what size house we were going to build. >> You've already you've already committed it. So, >> cows out of the barn.

>> I want to I want to take that risk off of my risk profile. I'm gonna pay that sucker off. >> Yeah. That that that helps helps situation.

It does >> helps the sleep at night factor, >> right? That's right. >> Just get it paid off and then let's just Okay, we have made our >> personal consumption pledge for the next six years. >> That's it.

>> And we're we're sleeping in it. >> And in reality, that means we're going to be aggressive. We're going to put 15% in these mutual funds. Are we going to up a little bit?

>> Yeah, we're going to up it because you're everything's paid off. You're baby step seven. So, we're start doing investments out here big time and there's not going to be more much more personal. So, if you go to the beach and your friend has a nice condo at the beach, uh-uh, you can't have one, >> right?

Because you you instead of buying a $700,000 house and a >> beach condo. >> It's a beach condo. >> You your beach con. Put some sand in the bedroom.

Yeah. I mean, that's that's what we're doing here. This is that's where you are now. So, just a little beach there in the set in the master in the second master suite of the 1.6 million.

Yeah.

no more mama, you know, mama wants a Bentley. No, mama ain't getting a Bentley. It's not happening here. >> We got a $100 million house.

And here's the beautiful thing. You make 300 $400,000. >> You clean it up real fast. This is two or three years.

>> Okay. It's it's more of a it's more of a uh it's not a you're stupid discussion or you've done something extremely dumb discussion. It's just like I'm with you, John. I'm a little nervous about it.

And I would based on that start making the moves to not be nervous. First one, pay off the debt. Second one, redistribute most of your investing away from personal issues from the for the next five, six years. And then you'll get it bounced back again.

Cool. Victoria is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi,

Victoria. How are you?

>> Hi guys. I've had better years. Uh >> oh. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm calling because

Sorry, I promised myself I wasn't going to get emotional, but I feel like my life is at stake. It's >> okay, Don. >> I really don't know. I really don't know what to do. Um, we have a business. It's

It's a trucking company. Um my husband is one of the drivers and we currently have another one. >> We have two trucks you're running in the trucking company.

>> Correct. >> Okay. >> Uh we had more but we've had really bad

luck with drivers that really did some bad things for us. So >> we are selling some things to try and liquidate the assets to pay off some of the debt. Um but essentially we're probably about $400,000 in debt. How much of that is the two trucks?

>> Um, one of the trucks we own outright.

The other truck we still owe probably about $75,000 on.

>> And what is the truck the uh the truck you own outright worth?

>> It's probably worth about $100,000.

>> And what about the other one that you owe 75 on?

>> Um, it's probably worth about 40.

>> Okay. So, that's 140 of the 400 in debt if you sold both those and went and got a job.

>> Uh, correct. >> Okay. I'm just catching up. All right. Now, what do you own a home?

>> Uh, we we actually own three. So, we have three mortgages and all three of them are rented. Um, >> okay. Do they any of them have any equity?

>> One of them has equity. One of them we owe we owe 267 on it and it's probably

worth about 450,000. Sell it

>> today. Put it up on the market today.

>> Okay.

>> So, okay. I'm a little short on time.

I'm a little short on time. I'm going to give you a a Ramsey coach >> as my gift to sit down with you. Okay.

>> But you're call me up emotional and thinking you're bankrupt. And um when I sell everything, which is what's going to happen in a bankruptcy, I don't think you're bankrupt.

But you're going to have to turn loose to some things. You can't hold on. You can't be the monkey with the hand in the bottle holding on to the jelly beans cuz you can't get away from the bottle. You got to let go of the jelly beans. Pull your hand out of the bottle. And that's how it works. I think you can get out though. I wish I had more time with you.

I'm sorry. Hang on. We'll get you some help though, kiddo.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, PhD in counseling, is my co-host today. Todd is with us in

Texas. Hey Todd, how are you?

>> Hey guys. Um, I had a question about uh

I'm going to be 59 and a half in about six more months. I just had a birthday and uh my uh Roth IRA at my work. Uh

I'll be able to cash that out without uh any kind of penalties and it's the one where you pay your taxes in advance. So I'll be able to get the whole amount out. >> Yeah, I know about that. We own a small Yeah, we want to we want to uh build a

small excuse me a cabin and uh it looks

like I'm going to have about $140,000 to work with and we've talked to a couple of builders and we can get about 900 to a,000 square foot place built for that.

My question is, would it be more prudent

to pull that cash out because it will take all of it and go ahead and build

the cabin and and be debtree as far as any kind of a mortgage or would it be more prudent to actually borrow the money and leave that in there because I think it's getting to the point where the uh compound interest is really starting to to build over the years.

>> Money, that's not how compound interest works, >> is it not? No, compound interest does not like get a running start. It um Oh,

really? >> It just is you just make interest on whatever's there and over time you make

interest on whatever's there and whatever's there is larger over time, but it's not it doesn't mathematically get a running start. So, do you have any other money?

>> Uh I have I have a little bit. I have

about 8,000 in my savings account. My wife >> What about your wife? Are you married?

>> Yes. and my wife probably has four or five. And then we have a household account that we have about uh probably another four or five. >> Okay. >> So, you're you're 59, you quit work, you're going to retire.

>> Oh, no, no, no. And you're going to be broke. >> No, no, no. I'm not going to retire.

>> You can't take your money out of a 401k unless you work unless you don't work there anymore.

>> Uh, that's not what they told me. This is a TSP and I work for the federal government. >> Okay. All right. >> And uh No, they told me when I >> Let me tell you what you just did. You you have absolutely no investments now.

>> No, I would not. But I was we would both still be working.

>> Yeah.

How's that make it smart?

>> Well, I mean that's why I'm calling you, buddy. That's why that's why I'm looking for an answer, my friend.

>> The answer you're not going to do my answer. Okay. My answer is you can't afford a cabin.

>> Oh, really? >> You don't have enough money.

So told you weren't going to do it.

>> But now that's not my only uh you know I do have you know I have the social security and I have a furs retirement account with the government. >> I know. >> Are you familiar with those? >> Yeah I am very Yeah. Um the but but I

mean you dude you have no money in a

cabin.

>> Yeah. >> That's just there's no way that this makes sense. the the the the reason I'm

see here's the thing. If I wait until I'm 70 years old to when I can retire

and then I build a cabin, what good is a cabin going to do me? I'm going to be 70 years old. >> Well, you won't have to eat the logs.

>> Well, my my thought was go ahead and you

know, we have a home. We'll we'll build the cabin and in a year or so if it's

looking like it's not working out, I could either sell our home, our primary residence, and move to the cabin or I

could sell the cabin. You know, I guess what I'm saying is

>> beneath the thing. What's the thing?

>> You you've wanted a cabin a long, long time >> and you haven't saved up enough money to buy a cabin.

Well, it's it would be in the the TSP account. >> I know you haven't saved up enough money to buy a cabin because you're going to have to retire broke with a cabin. And

that just doesn't I can't tell you to do that. I'm I'm not I I like you too much

to tell you to do something that's going to bring you harm, sir. And this is harmful to you. You're going to have You've In your mind, you're not worried about having no money in a cabin. I'm

really worried about you having >> too many calls from 65 and 68 and 72 year olds. >> And so, um, you know, if you want to go stay in a cabin, rent one for the weekend and keep your money in your investments.

And, um, you know, you have not saved enough money. You've not done a good enough job with your investments to be able to afford to have a second home.

And you just don't have the money. I mean, it's like calling me up and going, "Dave, I want to buy a $2 million yacht,

and I've always wanted one." Well, you don't have the money. I'm sorry if you always wanted one. And it breaks my heart you can't get your $2 million yacht, but you don't have $2 million to buy a yacht. It's the same thing. You don't have the money to do this. You think you've got the money, but when you go do this and you use up all your money, you're going to be living on social insecurity broke with a cabin.

And that's just I'm sorry. I can't tell you to do that because I like you too much. I think you're a good guy. You're going to do it anyway because you've got it all figured out, but I can't stop you. But you did call and ask and so I'm

duty bound to tell you the truth because I care about you.

I I'm kind of speechless, Dave, and that's a rare moment for me.

Well, >> I get really really wanting something,

but the thought of the thought of relying on the government 20 years from now, like, no, they'll get they'll take care of me. They'll write that check.

That that seems infinitely more foolish than I don't know. Yeah, I can't wrap my

head around it. Doesn't make any sense to me. >> Yeah. The And here's an interesting thing, folks. Everybody Everyone falls for this, and I have in the past, too, and some of you do are doing it right now. that if you borrow the money, it's as if there's no like I haven't um

like that doesn't count.

>> I I still got my money in my account.

>> I still got my money, right? >> Is because I borrowed the money. It's like it's like it allows you to be in denial. >> Yes. >> It it's you're participating in denial when you borrow money because you're you're you're you're not admitting that

you don't have the money when you borrow money. >> There you go. >> Okay. I I borrow I bought this car that I didn't have the money to buy. I didn't have the money to buy the car, but I bought the car anyway cuz I'm I'm in denial about the fact that I don't have the money and I wanted the car anyway.

And so, and I work really hard. There's that old saying, whatever you go looking for in the world, you're going to find it. If you really want a cabin, you're going to figure out a way that this somehow makes sense to you, which is why it's good to have wise counsel. But wise counsel doesn't do you any good if you don't listen to wise counsel.

>> So, I guess my promise to you, brother, is buy the cabin. I'll be here in 10 years and you can call me when you're trying to figure out what you got to sell and I'll help you with that. But we'll be talking again. >> Yeah. >> I just I can't wrap my head around that.

And by the way, I really really want a

hunting place with a big cabin on it. I really do with all my heart. I want that. I just don't have the money for it right now. And >> No, you really do. Personally, you're not kidding. >> I personally really really want that.

>> So if he if he builds it and gets in trouble, would you buy it from him? >> Depends on what county it's in.

how many deer it's got on it. But yeah, I'm happy to. I'm sure there's I got a feeling there's some deer around it. He's in Texas, man.

>> Oh man. The proverb says that the wise

sees trouble and takes refuge.

The simple moves forward anyway and is punished for

it.

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Not in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Andrea in Ohio. Andrea writes, "My partner and I

have been together for over 25 years and we have four children together. I've been asking him to marry me since we had our first child.

Oh jeez. He recently stated that we can

get married if I sign a prenup. He had nothing at the start of our relationship is and his business has grown significantly. He has over 300 employees and his net worth is in the millions.

I gave up my career 20 years ago to raise our children. We are financially well off and he has taken very good care of the children and me. Dave is so sick.

I don't even want to finish this. Is he wrong to ask for a prenup? I love him, but wonder if I should just let go the idea of marriage.

I don't really I don't really know how I can help you. I think you let go of the idea of marriage 25 years ago when you started having kids and >> Andrea, you made a really terrible bargain. >> Yeah.

>> You gave up everything and he gave up nothing.

He raised his kids and helped him build a business and he owns it. You made a

terrible bargain 25 years ago.

>> Yeah, this breaks my heart, man.

>> And you know the the

the ship has sailed. I mean, there's I

you know uh >> by the way he >> here's another I mean I'd call his bluff, but I don't think he will.

Um because I think this guy's a jerk.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think the reality that you feel very very exposed, you felt exposed for 25 years >> is because you've been exposed. >> You've been exposed. I also think if this was to go to court, I think you would have some claim to a lot of this stuff, but it's going to be a mess. An absolutely >> I have no idea what Ohio law is on this

kind of stuff. You certainly got child support coming out your ears. the thing beneath the thing here. >> You're not gonna do anything. I can tell. No, >> you're so codependent. It's unbelievable. >> And he's such a jerk. He wouldn't He's such a man who lacks any sort of integrity um in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

That the thought of even taking care of

his common law wife of a quarter decade and the mother of his four kids, he's thinking of his net worth protecting. His answer is all this money I made while I was sleeping with you >> is all mine. >> Is mine. I mean, >> I wouldn't want to be in the same room with that guy personally. >> Yeah, he's slimy. >> Yeah, he's a terrible human being. But here we are. Um I my guess is you've got

Dave, my guess is she's got bigger issues and she's either unsafe, he either has people on the side, she is recognizing how completely exposed she is and I think she needs to go see a professional counselor, but she also probably needs to sit down with an attorney because I think this type of question tells me this is just just what's right above the waterline of the >> There's a big mess underneath this.

>> Yeah, that's true. This is so

So, you know what it is though? It for not I can't help Andrea, but you know what we can do? We can read the we can read the email. And here's here's the point. All right. You're 24 years old

and your boyfriend wants to move in together.

I hope you read this email and realize how stupid that is.

I mean, that's just >> just how unsafe it is. how unsafe it is and how exposed you are.

It's just straight up stupid. And I hope some of you get pissed off about me saying this. I hope you say, "I'll never listen to Dave Ramsey again." Cuz some of the most smart things I ever did in my life is when somebody made me mad.

I'm trying to make some of you mad right now. Cuz this is if you're 24 and and

you're you have a 24 year old daughter and her

boyfriend wants to move in with her, you need to grab both of them up and box their stupid butt little ears

because this is what it sets up. This is what it sets up. And we've got all the data, >> right? >> Not just the feelings and the research to go with it. Here's some data for you.

If you're 35 and you're married, your

net worth is somewhere around 10x. If

you're shacked up and you're 35,

married men live 7 to n years longer

than shacked up men.

Hello.

Cancer survivors. Yeah. A much higher

percentage of people survive cancer that are married than those who are shacked up in a toxic soup bowl like this woman's in. And >> and we talk about this all the time, Dave. >> What if this woman gets cancer?

>> Exactly.

>> 300 million business.

>> He may or may not want to help you out.

>> Um and here's the thing. We talk about this a lot, Dave. Success and money makes you more of who you are. And if you're dating somebody who's a jerk to you and maybe you accidentally wind up

pregnant and you say, "Okay, well maybe down the road if this is this is how this plays out." Somebody becomes very successful. They were a jerk before they had anything. They were a jerk when you gave up your entire career and your safety. >> Why? And then they become worth millions on your back and they stay a jerk. They

get an extra humongous jerk. Yeah, this is a mess. Love involves serving each other. >> Yeah. >> There's no love in this whole equation right here. This just burns my belly.

>> Yeah. It breaks my heart for for Andrew.

I'm sorry, man. >> Andrew, you're just you you have made some really bad choices

25 years ago and now you are sitting in the poop. It's unbelievable.

>> And um yeah, I mean you you don't have any options. your option are stay in the poop um or demand that we get married

with no prenup or I'm leaving and taking the kids >> which is actually about the only healthy thing to do in this situation.

>> Load up and leave. >> You are with somebody who is >> more concerned about them than they are you or the kids >> and hasn't been for days for decades.

>> For years. Yeah. >> For decades. If he was, he would have committed to you and you'd be taking care of you right now and you would have been taking care of him. You gave up.

Wow. But okay. So, but the point is

this. Sometimes in your some of you in your decision-m frameworks, you think about Friday. Thank God it's Friday.

How's it feel in the moment? Well, that's what a child does.

Adults devise and plan and and and have a plan. Children do what feels good.

Children move in together at 24.

And it starts then you if you extrapolate that decision-making paradigm, if you use your decision framework and say, "Okay, how's this going to work out 25 years from now?" Well, Andrea just told you.

And then that tells you if it's a good decision or not. It might be an okay decision by Friday. You might get away with stupidity between now and Friday.

But when you extrapolate your decision-making out with a long-term hor decision horizon, vision horizon, then you end up with Andrea and you could tell the decision's a bad idea.

>> But this I mean this isn't just about the money and the kids. I guarantee I guarantee this is an abusive relationship. >> Oh, I promise you it is. Oh, it is abusive.

Just with what we know, >> psychological, financial >> with what we know, it's already abusive, but there's got to be more to it, >> right? >> Like you said, tip of the iceberg. So yeah, this guy >> Andrew, hear from us, man. You're not crazy.

>> You're not crazy. I I will bet you dollars to donuts. He's got a couple on the side. >> That's what I mean.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> but she's not going to. >> No. >> I love him.

>> Well, but also I mean also I want to I mean >> I don't >> being in an abusive relationship, man.

You can get trapped and it's it's a scary proposition.

Quarter century being told you're useless, you're worthless, you're nothing. Seeps into your into your

nervous system over time. And maybe this is her first reaching out saying, "Am I nuts?" The answer is no.

>> You're not nuts. Um you've done some stuff that's really damaging to yourself by allowing this to go on way too long.

And our encouragement would be to stop it now. >> Stop it now. >> Yeah. You're worth more than this. >> I I was going to say, you know, tell him the only way you're sticking around is if you marry him. I don't think you marry him. I think you just let him go.

>> Yeah. >> And take and take half his money. >> I don't want to be married to a a man who treats >> Who does this? >> A wife and and I mean a woman and kids like this. >> I don't either. And I don't want you and we like you and we don't want you to do that. We love you. We want you to win.

So yeah, I think I think you're done.

That's But you're not going to do it.

[Music]

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Marie is in Denver. Hi Marie, how are you? >> Hi, I am going to tell you my story. I

am recently divorced. I'm 73 years old

and I'm debtree and I have a total of

$100,000 in a money market and I have to

withdraw a,000 or two each month for

living expenses because my social security pays all but $100 for my

one-bedroom apartment. And I do have a

trustworthy car and it's fine. it's paid

for. And I don't I haven't worked in a while, but

you know, maybe I can get a part-time job at some point. But my question is

if I'm doing the right thing by just keeping all the money I

>> Oh, we just lost you, hun. >> Oh, no. >> I'm sorry. >> She just dropped. >> Yeah. >> Kelly, see if you can get her back and we'll catch back up because that lady needs some help. >> Yeah.

Jordan is in Oregon. Hey, Jordan. How are you?

>> Good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Okay. My question is, um, we did a

family deal mortgage before we found you. Uh, my wife and I are huge fans.

Um, we've been paying it like a 15. We have five years left. It was all done by a lawyer, so it's legit, but um the

interest is only 1%. I would like to pay

it off early, but everyone around me is saying, "Don't do that. It's stupid." You know, cuz the money's making more just sitting in high yield savings.

>> You don't have the money in high yield savings.

>> We do. >> Oh, you have the money to pay it off?

>> We do. >> Oh, okay.

>> Yeah. >> Well, who cares what everyone says?

Everyone's broke. >> Well, I know. Well, that's why that's why I'm calling you. >> I know, but everyone's broke. Don't take financial advice from broke people, man.

>> Yeah. No, I know. >> Or indebted people. >> Well, our CPA is even saying not to do it. >> Fire him. >> Yeah. He can't add.

>> Yeah. >> Who's Who's the family member that owns this loan?

>> Um, it was my grandpa. And that's part of kind of the funny equation is that he recently passed away. So, his wife, who's not my grandmother, is now the bank. Um, and everything is still okay,

but something in my gut just wants to pay her off. >> Your your gut is correct. You have a good gut. >> So >> So here's the here's the thing, okay?

The borrower is slave to the lender.

>> Absolutely. >> Period. No exceptions.

>> Correct. >> 100% of the time that you loan money to someone, you change the relationship.

100% of the time you borrow money from someone, you change the relationship.

It is impossible for your stepg grandmother to treat you the same as if

you didn't borrow her money owe her money. It is impossible for you to treat your stepg grandmother with the exact same honor or dignity as her as the

former wife of your grandfather when you

owe her money because we now have this transaction involved.

And the way we say it around here, it doesn't apply to this situation probably, but the you know, Thanksgiving dinner tastes different when you eat with your master, >> right? >> The borrower is slave to the lender. And if you're a slave, you have by definition a master. Even if it's a sweet, kind little white-haired master, you still have a master.

>> Correct. >> And you probably have her kids. How many

kids does she have?

>> Yeah, she's got three. And um one of them is fairly involved now with her since my grandpa's passed. And so >> and that's where you start getting this idea that well that's actually

they would be better siblings than most if one if not several of them don't think well that's our money or we want

to get our money settled etc.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> So you're asking what Dave and I would do. Both of us would clear this >> paid off by the end of the day. >> Today.

>> Yeah. You you know you know what's going to happen? You're you're going to feel like you took a good shower.

>> You're going to feel clean. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not to mention you won't have a house payment forever.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> And there is like there is a financial calculation and you're right.

>> No. >> Well, there's a math problem to be made that you can No. >> No. Not when you adjust for risk.

>> That's true. >> Not when you adjust for relationship damage. >> Well, that's what I'm saying. >> Not when you adjust for the actual realities of what actually happens.

>> That's true. Because these people who say, "Oh, you're making 4% and they're only charging you 1%, so you're making a net three." This is the most naive financial formula on the planet. You're leaving out risk. You're leaving out the strain on your body.

You're leaving out the strain on your relationships. And all of those have an actual dollar cost to them over time that no one has ever been able to calculate accurately except God says the borrower's slave to the lender. And he meant it. >> There you go.

>> And obviously he knows how to do math better than your broke friends. And so that's it. That's what it comes down to to me.

And the last time I'm going to loan anybody I love money happened about 40 years ago. So if I if there somebody that needs money that I've got in my family or friends and I've got the money and I decide they need my money, I'm going to give it to them. There will not be a loan. >> Yeah. >> That simple. All right. We were talking with Marie. I think we got her back 73.

She's got $100,000. She's trying to live on her social security, but it barely pays her onebedroom worth of rent in Denver, Colorado. Marie, why are you in Denver?

>> Um, I moved there from the south and I

have a daughter and grandson there.

>> Ah, >> and I've been there for like 17, 18 years and it's hard to go back to the south. >> Yeah. I I wasn't trying to get you to go back to the south. It's just a very expensive real estate market.

>> Well, it is. And I'm really north of there, but that's the main area.

>> Yeah. You know, it's >> where are your are you like up in Aurora or >> No, in Windsor.

>> And so, um, how close to your your kids are you?

>> Um, physically. >> You mean physically? Oh, real I'm close to my daughter. Real close to my daughter and grandson. >> Can you move a little bit further away and get a much cheaper apartment?

Well, it's 13.90 and that includes they

started charging for water and all that and that's that's about as cheap as I I

even saw when I was looking.

>> Yeah, I know. But I'm just asking because you can't afford the apartment.

>> Yeah. >> Um that's what's killing me here. So, >> okay. >> I I I I don't know cuz here if you burn $1,000 a month and you don't make

anything on the hundred, then you would burn it up in 100 months. Correct. Yep.

>> And so you're 80.

>> Right. >> 81. 81 at that point >> with no assets, no zero, nothing. And now you're homeless. Right. >> Okay. We don't want That's not a plan.

If we invest the hundred and we made 10% on it, that'd be $10,000 a year. $833 a

month. That'd be help, but you'd then have to live within that. Otherwise, you're going to burn it up still.

>> Yep. >> Okay. >> I can make enough working. And if I >> Yeah. So, you're going to have to add something to it and you're going to have to manage your expenses and that that includes the investigation of cheaper rent somewhere somehow.

>> Okay? >> And I don't know what that is. I I I don't have a magic wand to wave. I just know that Denver is very expensive. It's a beautiful city. It's very expensive.

And so, do you move 30 miles out in the country somewhere and um you know, rent a little garage apartment from um some little couple that's sweet and I don't know. I I don't know. but you're close enough to family, but you cut your costs in half. You need to get with a Smart Veester Pro at ramseyolutions.com and get the majority of the $100,000 invested so that starts making something.

Making 4% versus 10% is a deal breaker for you. So, you've got to get up there making get the money in some mutual funds and get it get to making some money. Um, and this is a heartbreaking thing to say. It's one of the hardest things I ever have to say on this show for a 73-year-old recently divorced woman.

That tells me you've been through a lot, but you might have to go get a part-time job. >> Yeah, she said that. >> Yeah, if you have to go get some money coming in somehow. >> So, I I would do three I would twist three knobs on this and try to get it to where it runs sustainable cuz the math you're giving me is not sustainable.

It's going to burn up. Knob number one, get the money invested so it makes some more money. Knob number two, get your expenses down by considering different rent. And knob number three, create some income by doing some kind of work as while you can.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah. And that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Xander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

straightforward term life protection.

But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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[Music]

Blake is in Minnesota. Hey, Blake. How are you? >> Hey. Hey, Dave. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> All right. So, I'm 39 years old. Um, all

the only debt I have right now is a personal loan for $30,000. Um, it's a 10.9% interest rate. Um, I have about

140 in my Roth IRA. Over 50 of that is

what I put in. I'm just curious if it's worth taking the money out to pay off the personal loan to uh free up some

cash. >> How old did you say you are?

>> 39. >> Oh, no, no, no, no. You can't do that.

No, you're going to get hit with a penalty of 10% plus your tax rate. And

so you're going to get hit with like a 35% or 40% hit. So it's like saying, "Dave, I want to borrow money at 40% interest to pay off the loan." No, no, we're not doing that.

>> Oh, okay. I thought I thought what I put in I could take out >> on your Roth. You can, but I wouldn't not I wouldn't I wouldn't unplug your Roth. What's your household income, sir?

>> Um, between me and my wife, uh, almost a

hundred. >> Okay. And how much do you owe on your cars?

>> Uh my wife's car, she has about 12,000 left and I have 14,000 left.

>> Is that the 30?

>> No, the 30 was uh about a year ago we consolidated all of our credit cards and everything into one. >> Okay. Okay. So, you actually owe 60.

>> Yes. Besides with the cars and the personal loan. >> Yeah. All right. So now what we what we'll have you to do and uh you you've got um two years of pretty extreme

discomfort coming. You're going to live on beans and rice, rice and beans.

You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as your extra job and you're not going on vacation. Scorched earth on your lifestyle. Get on a detailed written budget on the Every Dollar app. Lay out

your budget and live on nothing. And with your extra income that you create and the stuff you sell around the house and the tight budget, you pay off $30,000 a year for two years and you're 100% debtree except your home. Now you got your life back. But you guys have chipshotted one little ding at a time.

One little thing at a time. One little thing at a time. And then bought a car and then one little thing at a time. And then bought a car and then one little thing at a time all the way into $60,000 worth of debt making a hundred and you can't breathe.

>> Yeah. I mean, we're not struggling by any means. >> Yeah, you are. >> But I just figured such a young age.

>> Yeah, you're broke. >> Yeah, >> bro. I've been there. Both of us have.

>> This is not fun. I mean, you're not bankrupt, >> but you got no wiggle room in your budget. It's no fun.

>> It's why you're trying to do something about it. It's just It's uncomfortable.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And And there's no But there's no hack. The hack is hack through it as

fast as you can by living on nothing for

a short period of time. You and your wife sit down and say, "What would it feel like if we had no payments? What would it feel like? How fast could we build some wealth?

What kind of generosity could we do? What would it how would how would we change our whole family tree if we had no freaking payments?" And then you get in attack mode and knock it out. I don't know if you're ready to do that or not because you called me looking for an easy way out. You're not quite ready to be disgusted yet.

But the people that change their lives, sir, are the ones that say, "I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.

kind of got to get that thing going in your voice. When you do that, well, now

you're going to start to see some things move. And that that'll work. So, but

don't rob future you because you can't quit consumption, right? >> Last time you tried to borrow your way out, by the way, borrow your way out of debt. It didn't work.

had credit card debt, went and got a consolidation loan. Now we're going to cash out. We're we're trying to find always trying to find an easy pill. There's no easy button on this. You got to get it and that's a hard thing.

So, John, I was um being interviewed on one of the podcasts the other day, one of these famous guys, and uh he was asking me because we've got so many Gen Z's and so many millennials here. Um,

and I kind of had a thought. I thought I'd run it by you.

>> Uhoh. >> Kind of came to me came to me in the middle of that. Well, I I often get asked because I'm such a proponent of Gen Z and Millennials.

>> I love those two generations. Huge fan.

Yeah. >> I've got 600 700 of them on my payroll that work here and I love them. They're incredible team members. They do a great job.

And the guy was going, "Why is that?" And he goes, "You got the good ones." Yeah, there's some bad ones. There's some good ones. There isn't every generation. and and but why why is it?

It's because they grew up with this magic wand in their hand. And so anything is possible because if I push a button or download an app, anything's possible. I push a button, stuff shows up on my porch. I push a button, I can answer any question.

I push a button, a write my paper for me. I push a button, I mean everything is possible. So they're possibility thinkers.

What the toxic version of that when it goes too far is it's entitlement.

>> Correct. the but the other thing I thought he said well what's the main thing we could teach them I was actually speaking at a college too recently with a bunch of uh Z young youngers and um

he said what's the first thing you would tell this generation I said well what comes with this instantaneous abundance not only is the positive of it is you get this thing of uh uh anything's

possible and so you really think positively rather than negatively where like some of My generation sits around with their lips stuck out straighten nails, right?

>> The world's coming to an end and everything's so bad and you know, everybody's got a bunch of whiners in their generation, but our generations were like negative thinkers and we had to teach them with Zig Ziggler how to be a positive thinker, right? But these guys all think positive already. What they don't have is the patience.

And that comes out that lack of patience. When a boomer or somebody's looking in from the outside, they call that entitlement. I don't think it's really entitlement. I think it's I'm used to getting something quickly.

And when it doesn't come quickly, I don't know how to act. >> It's an expectation. It's not even entitlement. It's just the way it's always been.

>> It's the way it's been, >> right? >> Every time I push a button, something happens. And then I pushed a button and nothing happened.

developing a great relationship with somebody. It takes time >> or getting strong paying off $60,000 worth of debt. Paying off debt, right?

There's things that just take time years of grind, >> right? >> Oh, you mean I can't push a button?

>> Yeah. >> No, it's two years of grind.

>> You mean I can't No, it's two years of

grind, >> right? >> Yeah. But no, no, no, no. There's not an app. There's not a hack. There's not a shortcut. Tik Tok ain't going to help you. It's two years of grind and then

you'll be free forever because you will be tr changed, not just your money.

>> And the hardest cell for me is is people realizing you're going to be out of debt, but you're not even going to recognize yourself. You'll have muscles you didn't understand. You'll have strength you didn't understand. And you take that level of discipline and strength and ability to grind and then put that on top of or underneath this endless possibility mindset and literally the world is yours.

>> But that only comes from

high reps over an extended period of time. >> That's it. >> This is not this is not I lift two pushes on the bench press. This is high reps, low weight every day for years.

Every day. And and then you are transformed. you're transformed a >> and and then the money is transformed too. But that's just the that's that's a like you said, it's not the best part.

The best part is you are changed.

>> When Sharon and I went through the crucible of losing everything and then having to claw our way back out with our fingernails, >> it it isn't that we went through that.

It's that we went through that, >> right? I mean it it's it we are so

freaking permanently changed from that

in such a good way that that you know it

makes the strain worth it. And so I if I

could inject with a needle a big syringe

into a generation that is fabulous the

ability to persevere over an extended period of time. Add that to their

incredible abundance thinking and possibility thinking. It's going to be the biggest, baddest, coolest generation in history, man. >> Ever. And that means whereas um I remember my granddad and my grandmother, they got a sack of oranges for Christmas one year. Yeah. Cuz there wasn't oranges everywhere, right? And that was a big deal to get oranges in December, right?

That was huge. >> Well, you knew somebody in Florida >> that you knew somebody who knew somebody who got a sack of oranges. That was a cool thing. They had to inject go

manufacture go work at optimism. This

group has to everything is possible but

it can detach you from reality. So you have to inject hard regular practices on

a day in and dayout basis. >> You have to learn to cook in the micro in the crockot the microwave >> and wait and you have to learn to be bored and not scroll in in a Walmart line. You have to learn to pay off your stuff over time. You have to learn to exercise on a regular basis. And you will be stunned at who you become on the back end of that journey.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for being with us. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey personality is my co-host today. The phone number is88255225.

Michael is in Arizona. Hey, Michael. How are you?

>> I'm doing well, Dave. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, Dave, I'm married. I'm 25 years old. I have a toddler and another baby on the way. >> Fine. >> And bit of a pickle financially. Um, my

job hours are really inconsistent and so

we're about $13,000 in debt. Most of it is medical or dental. Um, and I'm barely

working enough to cover the essentials some weeks. Some weeks I'm making overtime. Up until now, I haven't made the best financial choices. Um, but I decided to start school. So, I'm going to school for it. I just don't know if I should try to focus on getting out of debt or try to focus on school to get a better job and then try to to work from

there.

>> What do you do now, sir?

>> Uh, now I drive a cement mixer.

>> Okay. And they pay you what when you're driving?

>> Um, I'm on track to make about 65,000

gross this year. >> Okay. And you can't live on that.

>> Um if on that I I could barely live

there. There would not be much extra for

um much of anything.

>> With $13,000 worth of debt, you can't live on $65,000.

>> Well, I I haven't made the best financial >> Okay. We don't have a system. We don't have a system, so we don't know. Okay.

That I believe that I believe. All right. That makes sense. >> Yep. I I need to change my ways and I'm

>> So you and your you and your pretty wife sit down tonight and open up the Every Dollar app. I'm going to give you the upgrade version of it for free and start

laying out a detailed budget of what it takes to live each month. And

your income is not as volatile as your behavior.

>> Okay? >> So when you when you get that system down, that's going to help you a lot. Um

because more you know uh and I don't if you want to change careers from cement truck driver to IT I'm perfectly fine with that. Um so what are you spending on the it?

>> Uh I'm not spending anything. I between scholarships and federal aid it's all paid for. >> That's awesomeness. And what are you studying? A certification program.

It's a accelerated bachelor's and masters program for a bachelor's in IT and a masters in IT management.

>> Okay.

Um >> my biggest Oh, sorry.

>> Are you able to do this like in the evenings? Well, after you get done driving, >> yes, I I've been working on it each day when I get done. The biggest problem that I'm having is my hours are so inconsistent and with the way the market's been, they've been cutting our hours. So, some I'm I'm making less and

less money and that could continue to go down. I I may not make >> All right, let let's um >> 5,000 this year. >> All right, let let me reset you for a second. Okay, to be making $200,000 a year, you do not need a four-year degree or a master's degree in IT.

You you need to have certifications and you need to know how it works. and you

but you can get all of that a whole lot faster than you can do an online bachelor's online masters even if they're accelerated. What you've signed up for is complete overkill for your goal. I've got tons of tech people like

500 of them working in the building and I don't know of any of them that have a masters in IT. One or two have uh

four-year degrees. Most of them have industry certifications. They've got Microsofts. They've gone to code school.

They've uh learned to code. They they've um they've learned, you know, some of the cyber security moves that need to be done. Uh they they've learned platform technologies. Um but they are not um

that they don't have master's degree in IT. By the time you finish a master's degree in IT, what you have learned will be irrelevant because the market moves that fast.

So I I'm gonna ask you not to do what you're doing. I I know that's very hard, but I if I were if you were my son, I would say yes, it is a great path for you. Uh the good news is you can get a couple of certifications within six or eight weeks and go get a job in that field making $60,000,

be a lot more steady. Oh, and by the way, they'll probably pay from that point forward once you're working for a technology company or a company that embraces technology and digital technologies like Ramsey does, they'll probably pay for you to continue to study and get more certifications. We do that here. We teach people new languages. We pay for their searchs. We pay for them to go through because we want better and better technology people on the team every day. Um, but uh, you

know, a master's degree is is 1,000% not necessary to move into that field.

I'm the hiring person. I can tell you that. I mean, I'm I'm your employer, so I'm sure I know what I'm talking about.

>> And Michael, tell me about the jump from cement mixing to it. Is that something you want to do? Are you just listening and hearing what people say is the next good job? You're just going to try to do that?

>> Um, when I was in high school, I took a certification and I really enjoyed it, but I just never did anything with it.

>> Okay. Um, and then when I got married

and then we had our first baby, I was already in the construction field and I I kind of just stuck with it because it's it's what I knew.

>> Well, you got a job and you were trying to feed your family. >> Yeah, good for you. You're a noble man. I'm proud of you. It's awesome. >> That's a good thing. So, what what I'm saying is that um number one, I might reset how I'm trying to enter the IT

field. And with that, let's go ahead and get a different job today.

We don't have to stay in the cement business until we get cement driving business until we get uh to a master's

degree completed. That's not necessary to do this. So, you could get a job very quickly in the IT world and be in the

proximity of the people that you're going to be working with anyway. they'll give you better advice on how to get uh tools in your belt, how to get educated to move up through the ranks in the IT section of of a company. Um, and a lot of times they'll pay for it and it so it solves several things at once. It shortens the line the time between you and the cement mixer and the IT and it fixes the fact that cement mixer hours are going down now because we're going to start moving into it now.

And that that's what I would tell you to do across the board on this because you have you're a good guy. You you a noble

person. You're willing to work hard.

You're willing to do whatever it takes to feed your family. Uh you just hadn't had a good uh track to run on and you

got to develop a track and and you reached out and got a track. I'm just thinking and there's a better one than the one you grabbed a hold of. >> I'd also recommend sitting down with someone. >> You got a degree.

You got a PhD in higher ed. Does this guy need a masters in IT? >> I I mean I don't know enough to know about it. I don't know any of the guys that work on the stuff that I'm working on that have master's degrees >> in Nashville that work in in the building here that work.

>> You know more than I do about that kind of stuff. >> Do you know any of them that have >> I don't know any of them.

>> Yeah. No. >> Not a one. >> You you'd get a PhD in IT if you want to teach it. >> That' be it. >> Right. That'd be it. Um >> teach people things that we don't use anymore. >> I would love to see you go sit down with somebody not in the university setting but somebody who's working in IT in your local area and ask >> what do I need to do? >> What do I need to do to get in the door?

And they might say, "Why don't you just come work here right now? We have a $40,000 job, but we'll train you in X, Y, and Z, and you and your wife could take a six-month hit, and you're back on you're back at the road. >> But go sit down and have coffee with somebody in your area right now. That'd be the path.

And don't wait till the cement mixer job just dwindles to nothing. >> It's going to >> the the boat has a hole in it. Go ahead and get off the boat if you can." >> Yeah. Yeah.

Hang on.

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Only one smart way to do a real estate transaction, especially in a world like we live in today.

Have a high quality, high octane, high protein Ramsay trusted agent that you

can trust. Make your home a blessing, not a burden in your corner. You can compare agent profiles. You can interview them. Choose the right one to work with. All at Ramsey. So find a

local Ramsey real estate pro for free.

Ramseyolutions.com/agent or click the link in the show notes.

Stephen is in Michigan. Hey Stephen, how are you >> doing? I'm good, Dave. How you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I got a question that I think I know the answer to, but I'm going to see what

you're going to say about it. So, uh, bought a house last year and my interest rate is 7.375 and my mortgage was sold and the new mortgage lender is saying, "Hey, we can save you some money if you refinance." Now, we're on the back half of baby step

two, uh, my wife and I, and I have the money to pay off our car. It's approximately 6,600, and the mortgage

lender says, I would strike now while rates are a little lower because if you pay that car off, that's the last piece of debt in my name. Your, you said, your credit's going to start to drop off and that'll start to hurt you. So, I guess my question is, do I pay off the car or do I refinance and then pay off the car?

What should I do? Yeah. Well, your mortgage lender only makes a commission when they sell you a mortgage, >> right? >> So, we know their advice is tainted in this case.

>> This guy's pitching pretty hard.

>> He is. They uh they are pretty aggressive with the calls. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, uh that that right there tells you that something's up, right?

And so, um Correct. Yeah. I'm paying off the car and I'll get around to the mortgage later. Why did you take such a high interest rate loan?

Um well we were we were living in uh I

>> know but that's that's above market.

What did you have bad credit?

>> No. Um credit score is upper sevens.

>> H >> yeah 737 is ridiculous. I mean the market for a year has been at six.

>> That's weird. >> Yeah. So uh I don't know a whole lot about finance. I I've recently started learning everything and going through the financial piece and the baby steps.

So yeah, >> I am making up for lost time.

>> All right, let's let's do two things. Let's let's answer your question uh in two parts and and so we get the whole thing and that'll help you and it'll help some people that are listening too. Okay, number one, um if the only choice

is between paying off your car or refinancing, we'll pay off your car.

>> Okay, so that that that part's answered.

And number two, the mortgage lender being aggressive is your hint that he's self- serving, not you serving. Okay? Uh

that's why they're calling back all the time and trying to make a commission.

And so, um number three, here's how you

calculate when you refinance a mortgage.

>> Your break even, you do a break even analysis. All right, let's use an example. All right, let's pretend that you had 737 and you could get 637.

That's a spread of one if you refinanced, right?

>> And your loan balance is currently what?

>> Uh 380,000.

>> Okay. So 1% is 3,800 bucks

a year, >> correct? >> That is your savings.

Okay. So, if it costs you $15,000 to

refinance and you recoup at the rate of $ 3,800,

it's going to take 5 years to get your money back, >> right? >> You follow that?

>> Mhm. >> That's called a break even analysis. How long before I break even with a savings of 3,800 versus a cost of 15,000? If

your cost was 7,600, you break even in two years. and

everything after two years, you're putting 3,800 in your pocket.

That one starts to make sense, >> right? >> But 15 years doesn't make sense. And so

what we've got to do is we have to figure out the closing costs and divide the annual interest rate savings into

the closing costs. And that number should be two maximum of three years,

two to three years or less. And so the what the what that ends up telling us is the lower the closing costs and the greater the difference in interest rate when you refinance, the more likely you are going to be to do it mathematically because the faster you're going to break even. >> I I agree. >> Okay. And and so if these rates drop on

down, if we see some continued movement, we've seen a little bit of movement the last few weeks where the 15-year right now is 5.86 on a 15-year.

Okay. is 5.95. You know, it's only a

tenth of a point. It's just barely moving. It's just hanging around. But there's all this discussion around the Fed and all these other things right now. There seems to be some downward pressure. So, I disagree with your guy that now is the time. I probably would wait a little bit. But, um, if you could save 2% right now and

you can make your money back in two years, I'd refinance it right now, but not with your car money.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, so the way you do the analysis is divide your interest rate dollars saved, interest dollars saved

into your closing cost dollars, and that's your number of years to break even. And that number of years needs to be 2 to three years maximum. And so, just to throw a few more stats at you guys listening out there and hearing this, the average home in America for the past 25 years has sold every 6.5 years. And the average mortgage only lasts 5.5 years. And so if you have a seven-year break even on your refinance, you got screwed because on average, you're not going to be there that long. Oh, it's my forever.

Oh, shut up. I'm giving you the averages. I don't want to hear about your forever. Nothing. Okay. So, the the

the deal is that your refinance needs to

break even in two years, maybe three.

But as we see these rates slide down, and some of you are sitting in some six, even some 7% interest rates, and we see them slide down towards five again, you're going to see that 2% margin. And that 2% margin is going to take a whole bunch of you make this formula work to refinance.

Why would I ask for a friend, why would I pay off that car with that 6,000 bucks versus pay this thing off and lower that

rate substantially?

because we've got to clear the cash first. The cash flow on the car payment is much greater than the 3,800.

>> What? >> Uh, good call. So, I'm probably paying 5600 bucks a month on that car.

>> 37 average is 780 right now.

>> Then the 3,800 bucks divided by 12.

Okay. >> And the mortgage is going to be sitting there and the car, >> it's like a an impediment in this whole thing. It's like the it's like the fly in the ointment. >> I love that.

>> And the mortgage is sitting there. I got to clean up the mess so I can go work on and and finetune the stuff that's not as big a mess. >> Yeah. Okay.

>> We don't we don't mess with the finetuning while we still got baseballs being thrown through the window, you know. >> So, if somebody clears the cars and they've got $35,000 in student loan debt, >> they need to clear the student loans >> before you go refinance your >> Yeah. Unless if you want to roll your refinance costs into the mortgage, you could do that. >> Okay.

>> But you don't need to drain cash to do it. >> Okay. >> Because again, but only if you're breaking even then, right?

you're going to save 3,800 a month or 3,800 a year. So that you years two years you come out ahead on doing that even though you owe more, but you'll owe less. >> Gotcha. >> When you're done. So all that works out mathematically, but uh >> wow, a little bit of a barrel of fish hooks. >> So, but yeah, that that's guys and gals how you work your refinance calculator.

And Church Hill Mortgage can help you with all that. Uh we've endorsed them through all the ups and downs of interest rates over all these 30 something years they've been on the air with Ramsay and they can help you whether and they'll tell you the truth. They're not going to do what this mortgage lender is doing to Stephen and just hounds you to buy something you don't need. >> I'll tell you my favorite thing when I called Church Hill and said uh this is several years ago and refinance my house and the first thing the guy said to me was I need you to hear me say it.

I'm not going to take your money unless this works out for you in the end. and so let me run the math on it and I'll holler back at you. And then he called back and said, 'Oh yeah, this is a great deal X Y or Z. But that was the first thing is I'm not going to just make a sale on on your back.

I'm not going to take your money if this isn't going to work out for you and your family. And I man, I was like, man, I'm all in. I appreciate that. And just a little inside baseball guys, uh, mortgage companies have been dying for the last three years because they existed for the previous 10 years, 20 years on refinances.

And refinances have disappeared as some of you are sitting on two 2.37 and you're not going to refinance at a 5.8.

do that. And so the refinance market has dried up and they were living off of refinances. So a lot of mortgage companies have gone broke. And so that's where some of this pressure is coming from. And then you got people like Rocket. Woo.

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Are you on track with the baby steps?

You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes, click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the free quick quiz. Eric's in Ohio. Hi, Eric.

>> Hey, Dave. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, I'm looking for maybe some advice and a a sounding board. So, I'm uh 37

years old, married. I have four young daughters. My oldest is in second grade.

Um my wife and I both have very good jobs. Um combined income gross before

retirement taxes is about 310 315.

>> Wow. >> Um yeah. So, we're doing well, right? So about seven, eight years ago, we've had the opportunity to buy from my uncle's estate the family farm that's been in the family for, you know, 150 60 some

years. >> Um, and it's appreciated more than we

would ever thought, you know, in in that amount of time. Um, so we bought it for

7,700 bucks an acre. You know, the neighbors just sold for like over 18,000 an acre. So we're thinking like >> I know, great. Those things don't happen. That's what I was saying. like these are this is this isn't real life, you know. Should we just get out now? Um

so we still have a note on the farm. We didn't buy it in cash. We didn't have that kind of cash, but it's relatively cheap money because that was back in 2019. Um then we refinance. It's about a

four and 4.125 is what we have on it.

>> Um so 80 acres, you know, it would

probably, you know, 1.4ish.

Hard to say, you know, it's worth what somebody will pay for it. Um, >> and you like >> uh about 400, just shy of 400. I think 395. >> All right. And um you your mortgage on

your home? >> We do have a mortgage on our home. Yeah. >> What do you owe on your home?

>> Uh 235.

>> Okay. And you make 315. Do you have any other debts? >> No, none. >> How much in your nest egg and retirement and so forth? >> Uh so I was just looking this afternoon.

And I think mine has 205 and my wife, she started a little bit later. She has about 100 105 somewhere in there.

>> So, how old are you guys?

>> I'm 30. We're both 37.

>> Okay. All right. Wow. Well, um,

if you hadn't called us, what normal

people would do would be just continue to service the 400 and let this thing continue to skyrocket in value, >> right? Um, I'm not as happy with the $400,000 as most people would be in debt.

>> You got a million dollars equity laying there. And so I start asking myself, if I'm you and I've got a million dollars piled in the middle of the table and I don't own this farm, would I go buy this farm or would I do something else with a million dollars, >> right? >> And you would only buy the farm >> if you thought it was going to continue to go up in value pretty rapidly. Right.

As an investment why you would buy it.

Mhm. >> Well, in this case, it's actually got another added element. It's been in the family for it's been in the family for 150 years. >> So, that that's um >> that's emotional.

>> It has been in the family for a while, but you know, at the time, nobody else wanted it. And so, my wife and I were like, I mean, we we had some money. We were able to make the payment. We kind of, you know, pencled it out and all that and it worked out.

Um, knowing that it's a good >> Do you have any money that's not in retirement? Any cash or investments that are not in retirement? >> Yeah, I mean, we have some savings. is we also have like a brokerage account.

>> Okay. So what what here here's two options and either one is fine with me.

All right. Option one is um you said how

much is in the brokerage again? 80. No >> 80 85. Yeah. >> 85 85. And you make 315 and then you got 50 in your emergency fund.

>> Mhm. Any other money that's not retirement?

>> No, not really. I mean, some checking account, but that's maybe 20ome,000. So, I guess that counts, but I don't look at that as >> No, it's not a lot. I mean, you're making 315,000, so that's not that's a month. And so, yeah. >> All right. Um the uh So, what I'm going to do is look at our budget, you and your wife, and say, "All right, >> I want to pay off our house really fast.

I'm going to throw 85 at the house. That leaves 150 and we make 315 and so we're

gonna pay off the house in the next 24 months while paying minimum payments on the farm. >> Yeah. >> And keep the farm.

>> That's option one.

>> Option two, sell the farm and pay off the house and invest the money somewhere.

>> Okay. I mean either one's fine. So the qu the question becomes where do I want to invest a million dollars?

>> Right? Do I want to invest a million dollars in wonderful dirt in wonderful Ohio

>> or which is not obviously not a bad investment. It's done really well.

>> Yeah, >> it's not a bad investment. One of the guys we studied in the millionaire study had $24 million worth of dirt.

>> Mhm. >> And it was just dirt. I mean, he's Kansas dirt farmer in Kansas.

>> I mean, just straight up, man. I mean, soybeans and corn, baby. Hello. You know, and um >> that's what it is. 24 freaking million dollars. All right. So, it's just, you know, so don't talk. It's good. There's nothing wrong with I'm not mad about dirt at all. Um, so, uh, uh, but you're

just need to ask yourself, the reason you bought this was not because you woke up one morning and said, "I want to systematically invest in dirt." >> No, it was presented to you because of the family connection and that kind of woke you up and you went, "Well, that might be cool. Let's go do it." So you almost kind of backed into it.

>> Definitely. >> But it wasn't the implementation of a strategic thought.

>> That's true. >> Okay. And so now what I'm saying is I'd back up and look at this through strategic eyes and say, "All right, I can keep it. It's no sin." And I'm But

what I'm doing is I'm investing a million dollars in the dirt. If I'm going to do that, then I'm going to get my house paid off pretty quick. And then we're going to turn our attention to getting the 400 knocked out and be sitting here debtree with by then a piece of ground that's worth 2 million and a house that's worth what what's it worth today? Your house?

>> No, it's 350ish probably 375.

>> Yeah. So it's going to be 400500 600,000 by then. So, I mean, you're gonna have $2 million worth of dirt, $600,000 worth of house, and then you're going to be loading up your mutual funds in your retirement, and you're going to be looking at five, six, seven million net worth in about a four to five year period of time by leaning into these things and thinking about it strategically if you keep the farm. If you don't, right, >> then you pay off the house, you take the money, you do the exact same thing, but you do it with different investment vehicles.

So either one of those is fine, but if you keep it, it comes with the pledge with the two of you to not beans and rice, but to be intentional and systematic about clearing the house pretty quick and then clearing the farm pretty quick after that. No more debt up in in five years, >> all this paid for. >> Have a couple million dollars worth of real estate, which is not >> more like three or four million worth of real estate in five years. Yeah.

Yeah. That's where we're headed. And and that's if you keep it. And it's obviously gone.

been a minute, but I thought I read that tech companies are looking at some of these places in the north that were old rust bell places where they can go in and buy dirt cheap and put out big ecosystems of whatever. >> It could just be farmland's doing that >> and it might just be good dirt for farmland. Who knows? >> I mean, Ohio, it's, you know, I don't know.

Uh, but I I I do not have personal knowledge of that marketplace. >> I don't either, but >> so it's just interesting. I'm I'm so happy for you that you made all that money on it and and that you have this problem.

>> I have a strange attachment to dirt, so I'm I'm my my answers are never rational. >> Yeah, mine too. Brett is in Wisconsin.

Hey, Brett. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Uh really great to talk to you. Thanks for chatting with me.

>> Sure. >> Um so I've got I kind of came late to

the baby steps. I don't think I've been terribly irresponsible with money, but you know, was running out at the end of each month and thinking I make too much money to be broke as you say. And so I've kind of started doing your program.

We got on a budget, stopped credit cards. >> So you every dollar is written down before the month and your wife and you agree on it? >> Yes. >> Wow. How'd that feel? >> So we Well, it felt better for me than for her, I think. But um you know

knowing that there's money left over at the end of each month has been great for my peace of mind. I know that. >> Yeah. >> So we've we've stopped using credit cards. We never carried credit card balances but you know everything came in went right to them. Right. So >> where I'm at right now is I've got a lot of retirement savings but and you know my only debt is a probably car loan and home loan and I'm trying to get on the

path. Is it really okay to stop saving for retirement completely?

>> Yeah. For a short period of time and knock that car out. Absolutely.

Absolutely. That's what we teach people and it works. You're not talking about doing it long. Five, six months and you're clear.

You don't have a car payment anymore. No more credit card debt. We now have a plan. Me and my wife are in agreement.

Sounds like her vote needs to count a little bit more in this budgeting. Like you kind of crammed it down her throat a little bit, but um yeah, other than that, sounds like you kind of got it going.

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Our

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scripture today, John 8 and12, Jesus said, "I am the light of the world.

Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of the world." Jordan Peterson said, "It is my firm belief that the best way to fix the world, a handyman's dream, if there ever was one, is to fix yourself."

So, um, most of you are aware that we

record this show or do this show live, uh, on the glass here at Ramsey from 1

to 4 central time, Monday through Friday, uh, on the lobby in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. and then various platforms pick up u what I'm saying

right now hours from now uh by the time

you hear that it will be old news but moments ago uh Charlie Kirk was shot and

killed at um in Utah at Utah Valley

University and um

um don't know a lot of the details at

this point other than apparently it was a long long distance shot and um not

super long couple hundred yards but it wasn't up close and personal. And um um

then but in the days and weeks to come, I'm sure all the sorted issues of mental

illness that are associated with a shooter will come out and all those kinds of things. Um

it just it just takes my breath. I mean, I know Charlie, I knew Charlie and uh I had spoken at some of his events and um

he's brilliant and a fire brand uh for sure. a lightning rod. Uh and um

brilliant de in debate. Um 31 years old,

two little girls uh looks I mean and they're like four years old and under and uh same as my

little grandkids, same age as them. and

um many many many of the people that we

speak with in leadership events and um

pastors across the country uh and are a lot of us run in the same

circle and we've been you know again I've been at his events with pastor friends of mine and leadership uh friends of mine that teach and and so forth in that and and so I had many many

many conversations with him Um uh and

this is just sickening. I I can't breathe. I mean, it's just um uh I can't think of anything except about a a little wife that's 30 years old and a couple of little kids um

because somebody's h has decided that their political um uh views are more important than anything else and decided to put a bullet in somebody. And it's just uh

simultaneously angry and sad and rage inside my chest right now and I'm just I feel just sick. I think I'm going to throw up. But um yeah, certainly we will be praying for his family. Um and uh we will also be uh

in touch with all of them and um and

like everybody else in America, we'll be trying to help them out and do anything for them that we can to to try to um

just deal with the results of some animal >> that is uh some some mentally deranged that's out of control. And um uh

this is just the result of people have lost the ability to have uh a a good

argument without losing their minds. You

can't argue your political point. You can't argue a point of view. Uh you can't say that someone's right or someone's wrong without somebody losing their dad gum mind in in this culture right now. And it's just it's plain dangerous. And it's not going to end well if if if we don't get some of these folks under control.

Yeah. I just I just going to get home and hug my daughter. >> Yeah. >> Um Amen. >> My daughter's little I got I got a little girl home. >> Yep. >> And um Yeah, that's all I'm going to say. >> Yeah, you just you can't have enough uh security to offset this level of crazy.

>> Yeah, >> it's impossible. Um, I mean, we're careful with our appearances, places, and um, you know, uh, do what we can to

to have reasonable wisdom about, um,

exposure you take when you step into public and have an opinion. But, uh, um,

and obviously he's a lot was a lot more controversial than us. We're we stir up enough controversy and let people hate us, but nothing like he had. It was the stuff he got was over the top. And um

but it just it he's sitting there in the middle of a bunch of college students having a discussion. >> Well, it goes back to >> willing to engage today's societal events and and you know cultural arguments. >> It just goes back to saying earlier though, man. It's it's there's disagreements and there's veheminent disagreements and there's anger and there's frustration. Then when you go home, there's a dad of two little girls.

And if you can't make that separation,

man, you need to go get some help because it's a it's a I don't know. I I I got too much experience showing up to that and having to call that wife and I I I don't have it. >> You've done enough you've done enough trauma. Yeah.

>> I need to get home and hug my wife and hug my daughter and be really grateful that I've got that that privilege today.

>> Yeah. You know, it is interesting what you're talking about that um you know, you go back to the number of um

relationships, families and otherwise that were fractured by the argument over uh nuanced arguments about COVID, >> right? >> And they still don't speak to each other, still don't see their grandkids because one of them wanted a mask and one of them didn't. And and so they made they made little things the major things. and uh or or I can't speak to them because they voted for Trump or they didn't vote for Trump. >> 30% of the calls into my show are adult

kids who were cut off by their parents or parents calling in saying our adult kids have cut us off just divided >> for whatever reason. >> For whatever reason. >> Yeah. It's like cancel culture in >> inside homes. Yeah. >> Yeah. Inside families.

>> Yeah. >> And inside neighborhoods and inside whatever. So

yeah.

at the end of that trigger is actually um valid at that point. It it's um

you've invalidated the whole thing.

>> Yeah. But I want I want >> It's a really really sad thing.

>> I want to not talk about that guy. I want to talk about go home and hug your kids and go home and and um say a prayer

for the Kirk family. >> Yeah. I don't care who you are. I don't care what you believe. I don't care what you vote for. Say a prayer for a family that just lost her dad and lost her husband. And if you've got nonsense in your family, make the phone call today.

It's too short, man. It's too short.

>> Yeah. >> It's too short. Make amends.

>> Make the phone call, man. >> Yeah. I don't disagree. I don't disagree at all. There's some lessons you can take from this. It's uh it's just a just here for a vapor. But um yeah, that was a violence has struck out again. You know, there it is. And um sometimes it's little children in a school and sometimes it's other things, but in every case it's somebody that's trying to take power into their own hands. And this is um it's really at a at a really

critical time. It's >> scary. It's heartbreaking. >> This nation needs prayer and um we we surely do. Oh my gosh.

Well, um yeah, we we'll pledge to you

guys that we'll be in touch with them and um obviously anything that we can

do, there's nothing we can do, but anything we can do, we will. And the thing we all can do is to try to be just a tiny bit better as a result of uh our

hearts being broken and just back up about three steps and reconsider how how

um how to manifest some of these opinions without being so dumb violent about it.

It's pretty simple. Uh civil civil discourse. Wow, what an idea. And um

yeah, and you know, let's just label somebody and then vilify them. And

that's just awful. Just awful.

Well, we don't uh have that kind of thing on this show very often because we don't cover current events, but Charlie was a friend of mine, so pretty much sucks. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 260. You Can’t Heal Your Finances Without Changing Your Habits | March 9, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. And next to me for a change, Kenneth. That guy, Coleman.

>> That's right. I'll be delivering UPS packages later today. I've got the full uh outfit on today. People are a little bit shocked by the monochromatic.

>> Oh, I see what you got going on. That's the Doug Hefernon. >> The audience can't see, but I have matching pants with the shirt and it's throwing people off, Kelly. I don't know why, but it is. So, I'm going to moonlight tonight and drop some packages off. >> I think we'll survive this. >> If you got any packages, let me know. I'll drive them out. You know, >> the white sneakers and everything. Okay.

Full UPS. >> We're excited. We're ready to go today.

>> Yeah. Let's do it. Let's get into the phone lines. We've got Whitney who's in Nashville, Tennessee, right down the street. What's up, Whitney?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Yeah, you bet. How can we help?

>> Um, so I'm trying to figure out how to

protect my finances. Um, we we've my

husband and I have done Dave Ramsey on and off the program and due to addiction, there has been just some changes. And so if if separation is what is about to happen, >> oh man, >> kind of trying to figure out how to protect finances.

>> Okay. So >> let's since we're separating them, um

I'm sorry that this is happening. Let's look at it individually. Tell me about how much money you make. Tell me about

that side. Because when you say you're separate separating finances, is he moving out as well?

>> We we don't really know. Um, I'm hoping

a program to get help kind of thing, but I don't know. >> Okay. So then then for now, what I want

to ask is you're separating the money, but is he going to give you portions of

his paycheck to help pay the home bills?

>> So, if this happened, we wouldn't be able to I mean, I don't see keeping the

home just because of the finances.

>> Okay. Okay. I was I've been a stay-at-home mom, but I've recently started bringing in 2,000 a month just to supplement. Um, and then he makes 65

a year, which depending on his, you

know, circumstances, I don't know if that's going to change. >> Okay. So, let's talk about how the separation of money goes. So, you're making 2,000 a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, and then tell me, list out like what the monthly bills look like. What's your mortgage every month? Uh, you know, tell me some of the big ticket things. Do you have car payments?

>> No, we're we're really financially good.

We're um we were in the baby steps further on, but um we have a mortgage up and it's 900

>> 959 a month, I believe.

>> Okay, that's really good. And that's the only debt to speak of.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, tell me what you're

tell me what you need from us today.

Um I guess like before um this has happened and we had debt due to

just not know I he took out credit cards and a loan that I didn't know about >> um due to fulfilling his addiction. Um

so I'm just in a state of being worried that this is about to happen again. And so I don't know what to do because I

don't make enough I mean just I've been a stay-at-home mom and it's like separating just feels almost impossible.

>> Okay, I see. So you're thinking >> Well, let's go back a step. I because you seem uncertain. I mean, is the separation going to happen or not? It feels like there's an asterric and and I think we can walk through um maybe what

you should do, but but I I I don't know that that you know that the separation is absolutely for certain. Am I hearing this right?

>> I mean, yeah, because I want to believe the best and I'm hoping, but I've had many mentors and counselors and I just feel like >> What are they telling you? >> They're all telling me the same thing. >> What are they telling? >> What are they telling you?

>> That the patterns are all coming back and they're there. >> Okay. Are you certain that as of right now there is no debt? That he has not accumulated some debt outside of what you know?

As far as I know, I have the Credit Karma and it hasn't dinged anything on there. >> Okay. So, your name right now is clean except for it is on the mortgage. Only thing your name is on that is debt related is your mortgage. True or false?

>> Yep. >> And have you frozen your credit?

>> Um, no. I've heard about that. Yeah, you need to do that immediately to make sure that he can't pull out any debt and have you as a signer on it and forge that. Do you have family, close friends that are near you that if you had to get out and this is not so much a physical emergency, but if you had to, you could

take the kids and you had a place to kind of land for a bit. Do you have that?

>> Yes. >> And and and what are they? Family or are they just close friends? What are we talking about? >> Yes. My my family lives nearby. Um my mom and my dad both live nearby.

>> Okay. Are they aware of your situation?

Um, well, honestly, we separated for 10 months before due to this, and I guess I headed back in too soon.

>> I thought I thought it was better. >> No, but I'm just saying, are they aware of where you are today?

>> Not 100% cuz I hate I hate this. I don't I hate >> I understand. But you called So, I'm I'm I'm not tackling the money yet. I'm I'm kind of coming at it really quick to say um what I would do if I were you and you called Nastas.

I would call both of your parents today and tell them that you're planning to separate and you need a place to land because you got to have you got to have some stability where the $2,000 a month is going to take care of some basics. That's right. You're not having to worry about utilities.

So, that's step one. That gives you some sense of relief because your head and heart are already on fire because you want this to still work. And I hear that in your voice. So, I'm I'm trying to get you to a place where we we eliminate as much fire as we can. And by going to mom

or dad's and saying, "I don't have a timeline. They're not going to be kicking you out. They understand where you're at, and you are moving forward as though husband is not going to fix his life." You got to have that stability.

Then the next step would be to go get some full-time employment.

>> Yeah. Because you have to act as though your husband's not going to get well. We

want him to get well. We pray that he gets well. We hope he does counseling with you. But you have called and it felt like when this call started that you were ready to cut bait. And so now

we need to act as though that's the move. And we hope and pray that things get healed. But I think I'm trying to just get as super tactical as I can on what I think your next moves are. And Jade called it out. First move is freeze credit. Second move is call mom and dad and find the best place to stay. What What are your thoughts? >> Uh I think that you're right on. I would agree with that. It sounded like the only reason that you haven't exited this

circumstance is because you didn't feel the confidence to do that. It didn't seem like it was a question on whether it was the right move or not. It just felt like it was a question on whether you could sustain yourself or not. Is is that true or false? >> I mean um I mean morally is definitely a

struggle. I I'm a Christian. I don't I just don't Divorce is not, you know, >> we're talking about divorce. We're just talking about you getting to a safe place and and that's fair. I mean, you've got children. Yes.

>> We do. We have two small children. And that's really my biggest hesitation over everything. >> Yeah. So, there's >> hurting them. Um >> and it's you can't look at it like that.

You have to think of it as uh getting to a place of safety because you're in an unsafe environment right now. If you're worried about someone's being addiction to the extent that you possibly can't pay your bills and honestly that you're

calling into a a YouTube show or radio

show to get help, that lets me know that you're really in dire straits here. And so for that reason, I would do exactly what Ken said. I would talk with the family. I would freeze your credit today.

And the best thing that you can do for yourself is to get in a place of independence where that's getting full-time job, full-time income coming in and feeling really confident that if the time if the time comes when you need to live on your own with these children that you'll be able to do that.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem. It's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting. Then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

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All right, back to the phone lines where we have Nicole who's in Ohio. Nicole, how can we help today?

Uh, hi. I'm super excited. I was calling

because I think my husband should sell his Harley. And he does not want to. So,

>> I just wanted to >> I wanted to go over the numbers with you guys. And >> is he, by the way, just before before you tell Jade and I the numbers, is he anywhere nearby?

>> He's not, but I asked him to call you guys yesterday after I showed him the numbers, and he said, "I'm not doing that." but he listens to the show. So, I hope he hears us the show and he's like, "Okay, >> and that's why I'm calling him so he >> go for it. >> He's from someone else." >> Um, so together we have uh $39,000 in

debt. >> We currently do everything separately.

I've brought it to his attention since I started listening in February that I want us to work to unify that. But we

have some things to overcome. We started counseling. >> Good. That's awesome. >> Um but thank you. Um his so his debt is

22,650.

His two credit one credit card is 1350,

one is 2,300, a personal loan of 6,000,

and then his bike is 13. He has told me

that his bike is worth around 10, but he

has an extra vehicle worth five. So, he

would have $2,000 left over that he

could throw towards other debt and finish saving the $1,000 emergency fund.

>> Okay. Tell us about your situation. Tell us about your side. So, he you you laid out his $22,000 of debt and what he could do. Tell us a little bit more about your side.

So, I started listening to you guys in February and I'm like, I'm going to get Jazelle Intense and I have and the timing I've been super blessed. I've gotten my tax refund. So, I paid off in the last two weeks um $5,133

in debt. >> Okay. >> And I am down to >> How much of that was the refund?

um 90% and then I got a bonus that I threw towards my last credit card. >> Okay, great. So, what's your total debt left at this point just for you?

>> So, my total is $16,698.89.

>> Okay, cool. Um and what's it broken down? What type of debt is it?

Um, I have we had to get our house slab jack. So, I have a loan for that um that we did last year. How much is that? Personal loan?

>> Um, it is $7,762.

>> Okay. And then a personal loan. How much is that?

>> It is 6,400.

>> Okay. And then what else?

>> And then some medic um medical debt. And

I honestly I've gotten the bills, but I didn't have the money to pay them. So, I don't know what the amount is and I did a rough guess of what I looked at and I'm thinking around 2500.

>> Oh, 2500. >> Okay. Where's the other 2500 or 2 or 3,000?

>> Um, that's all I've got. I've got the 77

for the >> Okay, close enough. >> Jack. So, you're thinking even though

you guys are separate, even though your money right now is separate and you guys are working to get it together, you're kind of still like, "Let's act as though our money's together and I still have uh

opinions on what you can do." How does

he feel about that? Because it it could

be a moot point. If you're saying, "I want to combine the money," and he's

saying, "I'm not ready to combine the money." and then you're saying, "And by the way, sell your motorcycle." It may not be the best way to get him um over

to your side, if that makes sense. I agree with you, by the way. Like, let that be known. I I agree. Sell a motorcycle, do this thing together, all that's right. However, I don't want to attempt to level jump on where you guys are in your relationship. And I certainly wouldn't want you to put a ve make a very delicate situation even more fragile by going sell your motorcycle,

you know. So, >> so he he has um a side job which will he

does landscaping on the side. So, he's going to start that in >> like the next couple of weeks.

>> And so, his thought is he's just going to take all this side money and throw it at that. And we kind of calculated that and that would leave him around like 9,000 versus just like 88 8,300 in like

one one quick swoop, >> right? But the truth is but the truth is if you sell the motorcycle that side hustle would go towards other debts faster and you and I both know that,

>> right? >> Okay. >> Yes. So >> it's not his primary. It's not his >> I'm sorry I jumped in. No.

>> Is that his primary Is that his primary mode of transportation? from the Harley?

>> No. >> In fact, it's not even at our house >> for storage for the winter. >> What's his name?

>> Um, his name is Jonathan.

>> Jonathan?

>> Jonathan? >> Yes. >> Your wife says you're going to watch the show. Uh, and I've been listening and I only have one thing to say. You got to sell the hog >> or at least explain to us why not.

>> No, >> but I'm just saying if we can understand it. >> No, he has to sell it. That's my position. He wants He doesn't want to have to save up to buy anymore because we're going into summer and he wants to be able to write it.

>> There's a lot of things that I want to do. There's a lot of things that I want to do that I still cannot afford to do >> and that is like >> I know I told him like it's one season.

It's just one season. >> I just don't think you guys are on the same page and I don't even think you're close. >> I agree with that. >> I and and I think as long as that's the case, this is not really the issue. The

har the bike is just not the issue. I mean, we can keep talking about it. Ken's right. He needs to sell it. You're right. He needs to sell it. I'm right.

He needs to sell it. But he doesn't see it that way. So, we're chasing our tails on this until you guys get to the deeper reason, which is number one, how do we get on the same page on what our goals are? Because if we both have the same goals and we both know the reason why, then we can both attack that with the same intensity. So, there's something behind this that it's in at least in his

mind, this is more your thing than it is his thing. and he's just kind of going along with your thing. And I think that as long as he views it that way, it's easy for him to go, "Yeah, I'll do this, but I'm not going to do that." Right.

>> Yeah. >> So, there's more conversations that need to be had if you really >> Yeah. We >> want to solve this. >> Sorry. >> No, no, no. Go ahead. >> Yeah. We have we have a lot of other like issues. Um when I started listening to the show, Dave said something once and I'm like I now I can put my finger on it. like we fundamentally

uh just disagree on a lot of things and

so and I kind of took the pin out of the great grenade and toss it into the living room. I'm like we have to get on the same page or I don't know what's going to happen but I I cannot live

>> on different pages anymore. Like we so we have to get on the same page. So he agreed to start counseling which we've had one session. We have our next one scheduled. So we're making the right steps I think. Um, good.

>> But it's kind of like big question mark like are we gonna get on the same page?

>> Yeah. I mean, for what it's worth, Jonathan, we think you need to sell the motorcycle. I mean, if he's listening, I I definitely think that. But, uh, I

don't see that happening right away is what I'm telling you. Um, Nicole, I don't see that happening right away. And you can keep >> jumping on the mattress, but eventually the mattress is going to fall through the the frame if you do it is what I think. Right.

>> Or Jonathan, if you are listening and watching and you really do want your marriage to work and you really are serious about what you're about to do in therapy, um why don't you pay attention and bring it up yourself in the next session that your wife doesn't feel emotionally safe financially.

you're watching, I'll tell you. And um I

think you should sell the Harley because of what it represents.

>> Well, yeah. Because he's essentially saying that his Harley-Davidson's more important than his marriage and what his wife wants. Why? I don't mind saying that >> problem >> because that's what I'd say to anybody.

Um and I just think this is so important and you nailed it. Um the counseling by the way, Jonathan and Nicole, most important thing you guys can do and it's so amazing when you can sit down with somebody who's partial >> uh excuse me, who's impartial. Thank you. >> Uh and and we share our emotions about

what we're feeling because this is this is a money issue. But you just laid out for us, Nicole, that you guys are not on the same page on a variety of issues.

And uh you know, when our values aren't

aligned, somebody's got to give. And it's my experience that both of you are going to have to give >> at some point. >> Yeah, I agree. I think that uh it's okay to do something out of goodwill towards your spouse. >> I agree. >> Even if you don't want to.

>> You know what I'm saying? Like >> Yeah. There's another Harley down the road. >> Yes. Yes. >> Probably nicer. >> Yes. >> You do what we tell you to do. >> You know, a scarcity mentality. He's like, I got to hold on to this one. No, you don't.

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Thanks for listening to the Ramsay Show.

We've got Estabbon in Los Angeles, California. Estabbon, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um,

I uh I'm currently on long-term disability and I going to lose it in

June 4th.

and it's about $6,000 of my income. And

uh I just want to know what the best way

to tackle my debt and adjust to the situation. Um cuz I don't

work. I'm on disability.

>> Um so you're losing the long-term disability money. Are you for sure you're unable to do any type of work going forward?

>> Yes. Um, I've tried for several years.

My condition's um, bipolar, schizophrenic, and like any level of stress causes me to have episodes. And

so, it's in the opinion of my doctor that I remain not working. So,

currently, I have my VA disability at

4,300.

I have my SSDI between my daughter and myself. I bring in 5600.

>> Okay. And then uh my wife gives me about

$1,500 to $1,800.

>> Okay. >> Uh once a month. >> How much is the VA one?

>> The VA is 4,300.

>> So why in the world do you need more money? That sounds like a nice monthly income. It's over 10.

>> It is.

>> Tell me more. >> But I have I have uh that um I have

$44,000 in consolidation loan.

>> Okay. And I have a 39,000 car loan um

that I just refinanced to lower the payment. >> Okay. Um I was writing something when you said the debt consolidation. How much is the debt consolidation?

>> 44 >> 44,000.

>> What's the What's the car worth?

>> The car is worth anywhere from 31 to 33,000.

>> Okay. I also I also have uh a $15,000

tax bill that I got to pay and I've I have $11,000 saved up in my >> checking account. >> Okay, good to know. >> What other debt do you have?

>> Um that's it.

>> Well, then I my friend, where's your money going? >> That's what I need to know.

>> You have plenty of income. You have plenty of income to be paying. >> You have 11 over $11,000 a month and

11,000 saved. I would not be trying to

track down more disability checks. I would be saying, "Okay, with what I have, how can I optimize that?" Because it's pretty it's it's a good amount of money a month. So, tell us more about your living conditions and who's living with you. >> What do you pay? >> So, it's my wife. It's my wife and my daughter. >> Um, >> she goes to daycare. We pay $1,600 a month for three days a week.

>> Okay. Before you before you keep doing that, I need to go back to something because you said, "My wife gives me $1,500." What does that mean? Is there more money there that we need to know about? And why isn't it all pulled together?

>> Uh, well, she makes around 3,000 a month, but about 1,600 goes to daycare,

and then the other check she gets paid bi-weekly. She gives it to me to pay off my debt. >> Understood. Okay.

This is an interesting system. All right. So, what I want you guys to do from now on is just pull all that money together. Just mentally, it's going to help you tackle this a little better.

It's totally fine that $1,600 of that check goes towards daycare. I'm not saying any differently, but if you guys are thinking about that we're doing this together, it's not her giving you money to pay off your debt. It's us working together to pay off our debt. I think that's going to just help you emotionally and help your marriage feel like it's on one accord.

So, that's one piece of kind of uh that's one piece of advice here. But let's look at this uh by the numbers.

sale private value and then whatever you're able to sell it for, if you can sell it for 33 or 34 or 35 even, then

I'd put the other 5,000 with it out of your savings so that you get a clean title on that and actually offload that vehicle. And then I take the other five or 6,000 left and I'd buy yourself a cash car because you're not going to work. So you definitely don't need a $39,000 vehicle, you know, sitting in the driveway. I mean, fair enough, >> right? That's fair.

>> So that would clear up a lot of almost half of your debt right away.

>> And what's that car payment a month?

>> 657.

>> Yeah, dude. That's a lot. That's a huge raise. That's $7,200 plus a year back in your

pocket. >> That's going to make you feel a lot better. >> Can we pause for a second and just I want to know, are you hearing what we're saying that we think you have more than enough money to pay this debt off? Do you agree with that or are you still cloudy on that?

>> I'm just honestly just very used to when I was working making very high income and so earning less money makes me

nervous. Um, >> okay. But that's not what I asked you.

Do you see what we see that you have

plenty of income to pay down this debt?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Like this is a this this is um

this is a realization. I understand the fear um and I totally understand it, but that's why I want you getting out of the fear game and looking at the real numbers, okay? And if you sell this car,

that's why I asked you what the monthly payment was. I wanted you to register that all of a sudden if we sell that car in the next week to 10 days, we don't

have a $672 car payment, that's even

more margin. And I I I Are you spending a lot every month?

>> Um I just moved to a new apartment. My apartment cost 3,800. I used to spend a lot on Door Dash. 3,800. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You have a $3,800 a month rent. >> Yes. >> Where are you staying?

>> Uh, in an apartment complex in Monterey Park. >> Okay. How could we beat that that rental

price? That feels pretty high to me. And in other words, maybe not for that area, but you could rent somewhere for a lot cheaper. True or false?

>> True. >> But you just signed a long-term lease, so now you're stuck.

Yes. >> Okay. Here's what I'm pointing out.

You're going to have to adjust your lifestyle, my friend, as you're getting healthy. You're dealing with something that is obviously very debilitating. And who knows what your prognosis is. And so, I understand that. But, so what we need to be doing is adjusting our lifestyle. And the last thing I would have done if I were you is sign up for a place in uh the Marina Del Rey, one of the nicest areas in LA, and pay $3,800 for one person. Mhm.

>> Especially when you're on a fixed income. Now, here's the good news for you. As Jade pointed out, you have plenty of income even though it's fixed.

So, you can still get out of this, but you have to adjust your lifestyle in the form of a budget, but that's what's going to allow you to overcome this fear are the facts of the numbers. And we can sit here objectively and say you got plenty of numbers to be able to solve this problem. Based on the calls we get, this amount of debt versus the income you have is very very >> Yeah. This is a classic two-year this is

a classic two-year deal. If you can put I mean I don't know how much your wife was willing or not willing to help with this, but I mean obviously if she was willing to take on some extra hours and you guys did this thing together and I if you said to yourself, "Okay, we right now we're making $12,000 a month. Can is

there a world where we can put 5,000 a month on this thing? And what would what type of side hustle would it take to do that? Well, then now you're done in 12 months. You see, that's with you selling the car. >> And so that's the kind of mindset it's going to take is let's create a world

where this happens in like 12 to 18 months and work backwards from there. So that's you putting somewhere anywhere between 35 and 5,000 a month on this.

And that's going to take you guys working on this together.

in case. >> Do you think there's a world where she says, "Yeah, we're we're tackling this together. It's not just me giving you $1,500 out of my paycheck to quote pay your debt, but this is our life and something that we're all tackling together." >> Yes. I think she's on board.

>> Okay.

If you guys buckle down on this and get on a beans and rice, rice and beans budget, which by the way, we'll send you every dollar in order to do just that, you guys are going to be free in the next 12 months. 5,000 bucks a month.

That is the goal. And you can do it.

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Missouri. Hey, Cody. How can we help today? >> Hey, thanks so much for taking my call.

My brother and I have we we have a pretty estrange relationship and it's been going on for six years. He has some

explosive outrageous text threads he'll

just send. Um and recently he did this before my birthday and then tried to send me a really nice about $4 to $500

gift for my birthday and the family is

saying you know this is him trying to make up for it and and all this. Um and I don't know what to do with it. anytime he's given a gift in the past, it's always come back against me. And so I'm I'm actually I'd rather send it back, sell it. I don't want it.

>> Tell us about the other times where he's done that and what the repercussion was.

What did it look like? >> Yeah. Yeah. So I've been in the ministry

before. He's supported our ministry before. That's come back and in ways of

him through some really aggressive texts or calls of just saying, "Remember when I did this for you?" I've always supported you. You're never there for me >> or gifts to my kids for their birthdays.

>> Um that's been used against us. And so this in no way does it feel like an apology.

>> But let me ask this. What does he want in return? Because the first example um

you know I get what he's doing, but what does he want and what has he asked for or imp implied that he wants as a result of supporting you or sending gifts?

So he will get mad. All right. He's he's

quite a conspiracy theorist. So he will

get mad when I don't agree with him on something. And these will be brought up

along with, you know, anything else of areas where he's supported me. And so my disagreement with him equals I don't

support him >> um on a conspiracy theory. >> So he's not asking for anything. He's just he's just agrieved >> that you don't see eye to eye with him on something. And so he kind of guilts you into this what he wants. And I'm

give me a little attitude here cuz I'm digging. He wants you to agree with him.

>> That's what he wants. >> Oh yeah. He He wants me to Okay, here's

the attitude. He wants me to say you're right. Look at what you've learned. And

because in turn he said, "I've supported your endeavors.

>> Please show me where I'm right." And honestly, >> uh, he's 42.

>> Is he well mentally? Like, does he And does he have some I'm just saying, is there a diagnosis or do you think there is a lack of diagnosis here?

>> So, that's a great question. And my wife and I actually think he may he may be bipolar. I was going to ask >> if you bring it up to him, it's going to it would go bad. >> All right, one more quick dig here. Um, so on this last situation where you all you started off with is you got this nasty text and and then the nice gift.

What precipitated the nasty text?

>> Okay. It was a series of when the

Epstein files came out, >> of course, >> of him saying, "Look at how right I was." Then and then it was to me and his

wife was in the text. She actually ended up calling and saying I'm so sorry that he's doing this. It was f off. You don't

know. I mean it was when I aggressive.

>> Right. So that's because you are playing this game with him and you are playing a game you cannot win.

>> Okay. And the game is oh we're brothers

and we're going to have real honest back and forth on any topic. Could be football, could be politics, could be religion, whatever.

>> And um here here's my advice because I have someone in my family that uh this

could happen like this. Not quite as intense um but shades of it. And so I want to address this tactically and then way we

can weigh in on the gift thing. What you're going to have to do is realize that you can't fix him. And there's no

way you can win this crazy game he's created. So you So you know what you do?

You don't play the game. When he fires off that text about the Epstein stuff and how right he was instead of you don't have to betray your integrity and what you think. Instead of engaging with a well I don't know or whatever. Just go

crazy, ISN'T IT? WOW. FASCINATING. SEE,

KEN, YOU'RE better than me cuz I would have just been like, I never saw the text. I never saw it. >> Well, again, and you that's a tactic, but I do think he's unwell. And I think that all this guy cares about deep down is something of an approval from you, but he does.

But you don't have to agree with what he says. But I do think if you want to save this relationship and actually try to detangle it, and this is an approach that may or may not work, but I really think it could work.

with what he says. And you see what I'm saying? Because you can't win. So just,

you know, don't disagree with him on anything. There's a way, by the way, to hear somebody and make them feel seen and heard without rubber stamping what they say. I have a master's degree in this with someone in my family.

>> Is that what you've been doing with me all this time? >> 100%. See what I just did there? So, uh,

so, so now on the gift thing, >> you know what, man? >> If you want to sell the gift or give it to somebody because it has such a stain to it, I want you to hear me say, I get that >> you won't win for losing with that, though. >> But don't return it >> because that's going to create more of a hornets's nest. >> You're going to have to take the high road.

>> And I'm going to give you one other piece of advice that somebody gave me recently. It was about parenting. And I think actually this is going to help you with your brother. And this is what my friend said.

And your brother is going to just be the

boat. Whatever the waves are doing at the dock, he's just bouncing up and down with whatever's going on in the news.

And somehow he secretly's got this weird perverted sense of I need approval from my brother." And he tweaks and he tries to throw things at you that he knows you're not going to agree with because it's some type of weird game.

>> And you got to be the dock.

You're you are planted in the ground and so you don't play the game. Don't take the bait.

>> And is it okay? So on the gift, I will I

will get I'll just give it away to someone. >> Yeah. >> And with a clear conscience >> when it comes to engaging, I feel like

I've I've tried Jade's approach of not responding. I've tried the I've tried arguing years ago. That doesn't go anywhere. >> Definitely don't do that. >> Did you try my approach? You know, I have and it comes off to him. The story he tells himself is that I'm being demeaning or sarcastic, and I'm truly not. If I said, "Oh, tell me more, man.

Thanks for reaching out." Those sort of things, they just I just feel like it

might be mental illness. Yeah. >> Well, then you got to cut him off. >> Yeah. Well, or just not engage. Not not

engage in those texts. When those texts come through that, you know, to Ken's point, you know, it's debate. Just don't engage. Just don't. and he probably will fire off more and more and more and more and more and pretty soon I think it'll he'll learn to go, "Oh, he doesn't respond to these texts and it will become something that is a new learned

behavior is if I if I text Cody, he doesn't write back and he'll probably get mad and send a text cussing you out." How often do you see him in person?

you know, it's we've actually canceled a trip because one of his outrageous text threads and stuff got dangerous. Um, and so I see him maybe once or twice a year

and even then there's a sense of >> You said it was dangerous. >> The relationship's fading. Yeah.

>> Does he act this way in person or is it just all this bravery via text?

>> It's this bravery via text. That tells me a lot cuz he wouldn't he doesn't even act that way to you in person.

>> No. No.

>> Huh? >> Oh, well then I'd call his bluff. That tells me a little bit. >> Um, >> I'd put him in his place.

And I mean, >> tell me more about that. What would How would you do that? >> Face to face. >> Yeah.

>> And I'm not talking I'm not talking like >> like don't confront like I'm not talking fisticuffs. I'm saying look him right in the eye and call his stuff out and go, "You try to bully me and manipulate me via text." If you printed these off and had somebody objective read these, they'd tell you how nuts this is. This needs to stop or let's hash it out right now. Let's get the whole family around in the living room and let's hash it out.

Let's get it done today.

>> Mhm. I might I I'm going to say this and throw this in. I might actually talk to his wife and find out what he's like at home.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair's Credit Union studio. We are taking calls about your life and money and we have Kendra from Minneapolis, Minnesota on the line. Hey Kendra, how can Ken and I help you today?

>> Hello. Thanks for taking the call. >> Absolutely. Um, I have a quick question about debt collection. So, I've never been in this situation before, but I just found out through my mortgage lender actually that I had something in debt collection and I'm wondering what sort of like legal actions I could take or if I have to pay for it myself.

>> Are you contending that it's not your debt or do you know that it's your debt?

>> I don't I believe it's not mine. It's from, as far, as far as I'm aware, it's from 2023 from an apartment I lived at back in in 2017 with two roommates, and

I had signed everything over to them and left the situation a decade ago.

>> Uhhuh. >> And I thought they were paying for it, and then I find out just last month that I owe like $500. It's not too much, but

>> that means I should have to pay for it.

>> Was your name somewhere on the lease that you just didn't know about it? I mean, you had to assign something, I'm guessing, if you were a roommate there.

>> Yeah, it was uh internet and it was on my roommate's name. I would pay her by

check every month >> and she would pay for it. >> Okay. >> Well, they're coming after you.

Interesting. Um I mean, you can contest.

How long How long ago was it? Did you say? >> So, I lived there in 2016 to 2017. And at no point were you ever at no point was the was it ever under your name?

>> No. I haven't been contacted about it at all in the last decade.

>> I mean, you could dispute it.

>> Mhm. >> I mean, yeah, you could dispute it with the credit bureaus and say like this account doesn't belong to me or, you know, whatever the thing is and file that dispute. You can do that online and

see see how it comes back.

>> Okay? But honestly, it's $500 and you're

getting ready to buy a house. I don't know that you want to fool with it. I don't I mean, you get to decide what's easier for you. But Ken, I hate burning the million the mental calories on stuff like that. It's $500. If you have the money and it's keeping you from getting your mortgage going through, I would just pay it and be done.

>> Okay. I do currently I'm paying for school out of pocket >> as well as I've had some sort of uh like medical issues so I'm paying for that out of pocket too. Um I have the money I

could pay for it. I'm just kind of tight right now. >> Okay, let me ask you this. Let's get creative for a second. By the way, I agree with Jade. I get this out of your life and even if it were to make life really tight for a bit, you're just going to feel better. However, I do think there's another tactic.

>> Do you uh do you have stuff? How much stuff do you have?

I have been debt free for since 2018.

>> No, no. I'm asking how much stuff you could sell. I mean, you can sell stuff.

My wife is the queen of selling our kids older clothing, stuff we got around the house. I'm saying how much stuff, general word here, do you have that could equal to $500?

>> And honestly, not even 500. You could probably settle it for 250. >> Well, there you go. Now it's even better now. Now, do you have some stuff you could sell, Kendra?

I could. >> Yeah. Like what? Give me two or three items. Let's walk through this real quick. Let's go. What do we got?

>> Well, I've got an extra TV I could probably sell. >> Bingo. >> Okay. What else?

>> Uh I got an extra uh like a a few game

consoles. >> Love it. Great.

>> Um >> let's go.

>> 250 at least. >> Come on. That's it. >> Now, how does that feel as opposed to where we just were 30 seconds ago?

>> Yeah, that feels a lot better just to get out of my way. Go sell something. Go sell a few somethings tonight and tomorrow and get $500 cash and be done with it. >> That's what I'm doing. It's not worth it. You can track it down. You can file a claim. You can do all these things, but at the end of the day, depending on how much money it is and what piece of your world financially it truly is. Many

times I'm just like, settle it, pay it, get it out of it. >> Mental calories. You said it so well.

When I start thinking about that, that's like my only goal in life right now is to burn mental calories. >> I know that's right. >> Like no, actually to not burn them. Like I don't want to go burn mental calories.

>> Yes. Make life simple. Give me a >> physical tough enough.

>> What's the craziest thing you've sold to get money?

>> Wow. I wish Stacy were on the line right now because she's always been the lead dog on this. But I would say we sold um

I wouldn't say it's crazy, but I remember when um the kids got out of the

double bob. We had a double bob because you know our kids that we had three within three years. >> A double bob. >> Do you remember? So a huge stroller had the big wheels. It could you could you could like you could climb a mountain with this stroller. It's the name of it.

It was called a Bob. We had a double because you know Chase and Josie are seven months >> apart. Yeah. >> Well, and then we had one exact same one but a single for Ty. All that said, one day we realized we don't need these anymore and they were in high demand.

Heck yeah. >> Cuz we took care of them. We didn't have for very long and we sold all three of those. And the reason I'm saying that is because we made a real nice chunk of change. >> I bet that's >> I don't remember what it was, but it was also very emotional. We didn't realize.

>> Oh yeah. To sell your strollers. That is big. I still have mine up in the attic.

I don't know if I have a crazy story, but we've sold just about everything.

>> I sold those used bath mats.

>> Sure. >> And someone bought them on Facebook Marketplace. >> For how much? >> $5.

>> But see, $5. >> But I'm just saying back then I was selling anything, >> right? >> Used bath mats, people, everything is possible. >> You know, people listen, people, you've heard Dave, if some of you have not heard Dave Ramsey say this, been saying it for decades, but he used to say something to the effect of uh and you'll help me out because you're better at this than I am.

Sell so much stuff the kids think they're next. Is that the exact way? Yeah. Yep.

And that's all we're saying. >> He was on to something then, he's on to something now. Sell so much stuff that kids think they're next. Quote, Dave Ramsey. All right, we got Kurt in Georgia. Kurt, uh, we're right up against the clock, but we can help you out. How can we help today?

>> Yeah, thanks for having me on. Um, just calling in. So, me and my wife been listening to the podcast, Dave Ramsey, and we've got a car payment. Um, we're not sure if we should keep or to do something with. >> What do you owe on the car? What's And what's it worth? >> Um, it's a 2007 Yukon 17 Yukon Denali.

Um, we owe around 31 to 32,000. Um,

looks like it's worth around 17 to 22,000. >> Yikes. Okay. Is that private sale?

>> Um, no. Actually, we bought it from a dealer. >> No, no, no. If you were to sell it private sale, is that the the private sale value or is that you trading it into a dealership?

>> Um, just on uh just on marketplace.

That's just what they're going for. Okay. >> I would check that on Kelly Blue Book and just see what it would go for private sale. And I also want to know, is this your only debt or how much other debt do you have?

>> Um, we also have a home and a land payment. >> Oh gosh. Okay. Well, home is uh off to

the side and land probably is going along with it. Um, if this is your only debt, what do you guys make every year? What do you bring home every month?

>> Um, somewhere around5 to 6,000 a month,

probably. >> I mean, what you could do if you're really trying to offload this, you could say, "Hey, we're just going to go down to the credit union and we're going to get a loan, a $10,000 loan for the difference, and we're going to pay that thing off aggressively. We'd rather pay off$10,000 than 32,000." And while you're at it, maybe you get the loan for 5,000 more so you can get a beater cash car with the 5,000 and now you're paying off 15,000 from the bank instead of 32,000 from wherever you bought this

>> uh 2007 vehicle from. Does that make sense? >> Actually, actually, um it does, but um we're actually been in this for we bought it in 2022.

>> Um and it's at 13.75%.

So we've already been in this for a few years now. So >> yeah, >> um we just did not know. We just didn't know if it was um it's not something that we can't pay for. It's just something that we don't know if it's feasible or if it's even makes sense to pay for it. >> Well, that's what I'm saying.

>> You called in asking, should we sell it?

And I'm saying you can and I'd rather

pay off a $15,000 debt than a $32,000 debt. If you'd like to pay it and keep it and you can pay it off in the next year or so, sure, that's fine.

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Regina is in Michigan. Regina, you're on

the line. How can we help?

>> Hi. How's everyone doing? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure.

Um, I got myself in a bit of a conundrum

and I was hoping for some perspective.

Um, just a little context. I'm I'm 44,

single, and holding down three jobs. Uh,

one of which I don't get paid for. Um,

>> Whoa, Todd. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. I'm confused. You, by the way, I'm fairly

certain you don't have time for a volunteer job. And that's what you just described. So, what in the world are you doing with that one?

>> Um, I've been a caretaker for as long as I can remember. And, um, I'm caring for my auntie. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that's different. Now, now I feel like a big jerk. But that's not the way you said. You said a third job where you're not getting paid. So, now I got to backtrack everything.

That's not >> No, it's okay. I'm trying to help America know that I'm not heartless about your aunt. That's all. Okay. So, keep going. So, um, basically I've been caring for

her and I was getting paid by the state, but I'm no longer getting paid by the state for caring for her.

>> Okay. >> Um, me and my mother purchased a house

in 2002, and we only have two and a half

more years to pay on it. Um, she pays the mortgage, I pay all the utilities.

Um, my issue that I'm struggling with right now is, um, I am $30,000 in debt.

Um, seven grand of that is a student

loan that I'm not even touching. I haven't paid anything and it's accuming interest every single day.

>> And we literally have no food budget. We

haven't had a food budget in since 2019.

So, I know. >> So, how are you eating? How are you eating? >> Well, we have uh beans and rice like

Dave always says. Um and I've been

getting some assistance uh from the state. However, that's going to stop when they find out I I have this other job. So, that's going to stop pretty soon cuz I have to report this new job that I got. >> Right. And that's where I want to camp out because you're either below the

poverty line to where you do need government assistance for things like food and and what have you or you're earning through that and you are no longer eligible which means there should be money for things like food and whatnot and what have you. So help me understand uh how much you're earning from the two jobs that you're currently working.

I get um one about a thousand50

a month.

>> What's the nature of these jobs, >> Regina? >> Um I'm currently with a janitorial

company. I clean for some attorneys.

>> How many hours a week?

>> Uh 25 hours a week, >> Regina. And then >> it's not it's not a job. It's not a full-time job.

>> No. I want to make sure we understand. You're saying with both of these part-time jobs, you're making $1,000 a month. >> Yes.

>> Okay. >> And uh they're 15 I get $15 an hour at

each job. So, and then um the majority

of the time I'm running from appointment

to appointment with my auntie. Now, here's my here's my question. me being

30k in in debt, I have contacted my

creditors and I have gotten on some uh

what's it called? The hard hardship.

>> Here's what I want to here's what I want to stop. We got to stop and talk about it and what's going to actually help you move forward today. And it has to all change today because at 44, if you keep

going down this route, you're going to end up in a place you're going to hit a point of no return where it's going to be very very hard. Do you see what I'm saying? >> So, I'm afraid of that.

>> Uh-huh. So, here's here's what we need.

Ken is going to help you with this, but we've got to find work today that's paying a little more than $15 an hour,

and we've got to be able to put dedicate

full-time effort to it. You got to be able to work and and it's not you being a bad person. It's not you being mean or anything like that, but you've got to be able to sustain yourself and you simply cannot on $1,000 a month. Something that you have in your favor is you're living in a house where it sounds like you're not having to pay rent.

You're simply having to pay utilities, which is helpful for you in this season, but we got to get you somewhere where you're making an income. >> Okay.

>> Um, you've got you you said you've got two jobs and you're making 15 an hour for both of them. Did I hear that correctly? >> That's correct. >> But you're not working 40 hours a week. >> She's working 23, right? >> And because you're >> 25 at each job. 25 hours a week at each

job. >> Okay. Well, that's 50 hours. You should be bringing home way more than $1,000 a month.

>> I have you.

>> Okay. I What What are you What are you paying What are you paying in taxes?

Um, right now I have to pay in on taxes.

I've been paying in for the past five years.

>> What do you how much?

>> $89 this this year. Um, and I get 82

back from Fed.

>> And then um, >> okay, something's not adding up. Okay, >> you should be making at least 3,000 bucks a month if you're >> if 50 hours a week times 15. Okay, I'm just doing simple math here. Okay. Uh, that's 750 a week times 4 equals 3,000

gross. There's no way at that income level that you're getting $2,000 a month of taxes taken out. That's impossible.

So, something's not right. That's where I'm really struggling. Can you explain that? Um maybe my math is off,

hence me having these lower paid jobs, but I I have did the um every dollar app

and I've been trying to stay on top of it, but obviously I always go negative, so I do need some help.

>> Well, you you do. Here's here's what here's the challenge. Um I here's what

we're going to do. We're going to put you on hold and Katie's going to get you connected at our gift uh to a financial

coach because we quite frankly in the remaining three minutes we have or two minutes we cannot help you. Uh but high

level uh I I will tell you that you don't have a grasp of your numbers and it's impossible to me. It's impossible

for you to only be taking home a thousand bucks a month. impossible if you're working 50 hours a week. And I don't know how you're working 50 hour 50 hours a week if you're running auntie around a lot. So something is off. And here's the really sad part. It's actually coming full circle.

>> Someone else is going to have to take care of your aunt. >> Mhm.

>> And so I don't even think and I'm I'm trying to be as kind as I can, but I think your numbers are off on the hours you're working too. >> I think so. >> Because I don't know how you're running in these appointments and working 15 50 hours a week. I just don't see it.

So, something's off and you need a coach and we're going to give it to you as our gift. >> Yeah. >> Who's going to walk you through what your next steps are, but you need urgency. I I want to give it back to Jade because she was going down this lane here.

>> Yeah. Uh, >> it's that serious. >> It is that serious. And I I'm not saying that to be uh hopeless. I'm doing it so

that you can take advantage of the now.

There is always a greater measure of peace that people can get from doing the baby steps. But the truth is there are prime times to get started and there are optimal times to start to where you can get the fullness of the value that the baby steps have to offer, which is what we teach here. And so in this situation, yes, the time to start is now for Regina or anybody who's listening out there because compound interest is your friend and and wealth building is part of this.

And having the time time Ken to save

money and pay off debt and make those differences, the less time you have, the the tougher it can be. And for Regina and anybody else listening who's in a similar situation, it's not too late, but you got to start today. And just a reminder, uh, when we're talking to folks, it's actually very simple the equation that we're thinking about. If you want to affect your finances, there's really only two things that you can consider.

You have to think about the money going out and the money going in. That's it. So, we're either looking at what we spend and saying, "Hey, I got to pull back on what I spend." That's not her issue. Or we're looking at income.

income other than you going out and getting a J O and working hours that

actually translate into real cash that is enough in your account to do the basic things of human life There.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I am here on this show because some amazing women in my life like my mentors, my friends, my wife, and my mom because they invested in me. They're all extraordinary. And one of the common themes I've heard from all of the important women in my life is that between the responsibilities and expectations that the world places on them and the expectations they place on themselves, they are under incredible pressure every day.

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If you have a simple tax situation, like you haven't had any major life changes or big investments, then you need to be using Ramsay Smart Tax. Ramsey Smart Tax is affordable and it keeps filing simple. Plus, it has built-in support in case you need a little help. Filing early means getting the best deals and you get that tax stress off your shoulders.

So, as soon as you get to all your So, as soon as you get all your tax documents, you need to go to ramseolutions.com/smartax and start filing. Ken, I know you don't file your own taxes. >> No. Are you kidding me?

I'd be in jail if I did. Not out of uh dishonesty, but just incompetence.

>> Tax. Same. >> So, I I have a pro. Tax pro all the way.

Love my guy. >> Love it. Love it. Love it. >> By the way, I got to give him a shout out. David, he knows who he is.

>> That's it. You're not I don't want >> Where can he be found? I mean, >> well, he listens to the show. Okay. >> So, he's going to hear this. >> So, you were just doing it for him, not to help the people find someone they >> No, I wanted to get a tax pro, but I'm also very grateful for my guy David and he knows that. That's a shout out.

>> All right. I'm going to give a shout out to mine Nina. >> There it is. >> Book. I can't say more. All right.

Carrie.

Carrie is in Florida. What's up, Carrie?

Save us from ourselves.

>> I cannot do that.

>> That is a true statement.

>> All right. I'm in South Florida. My name's Carrie. I'm 30 years old. My partner is 39 years old. We have two children, six and 10. Um, our house is

sitting at 196 on a 2.875 loan. I was in

nursing school, graduated, and tried to pay for a lot of it out of pocket. So, that drained my savings account. Um, ran out of money. I took out two 0% interest

for the tuition. I paid those both off, but I had to take out student loans as well. FAFSA wasn't paying for it, so I have $35,000 approximately right now in student loan debt. Okay. >> But I have way, way more in credit card debt. 47, I want to say.

>> Oh gosh. >> 47 in credit card. And it gets a little worse. We had a really bad hurricane in 22. A tree went through our roof. We had to get the roof replaced. We had to do um yeah a lot of new walls.

So >> um we had to take out a helilox for 80 because the insurance company didn't want to pay us. >> Why didn't they pay for that? A hurricane and >> they ended up paying 23,000.

I think it was a really long process and it involved the public adjuster and they took their percentage of whatever we got. But it was like really turmoil in Southwest Florida. So our HELOC right now is sitting at 73,000. I think the

payments are roughly $800 a month. Um,

our payments on minimums for the credit cards are just under 15. My mortgage comes out to about 14 and then I have a

car payment. It's really crazy. I know we shouldn't do this. I owe 16. I'm paying 625 a month. I do have I am a

bartender. He is a mechanic. We make about 130 a year. Southwest Florida is very seasonal work. So, summertime it gets thinner for us. winter is more

lucrative. So, our monthly income does

fluctuate anywhere from like 6,000 to $10,000 a month. So, I'm a money funneler. I am a save $100 bills in a box kind of person because I don't want to not have cash on hand. There's always something happening. >> How much cash do you have on hand? I have right now I have $24,000 in cash

and then I have a separate savings account that's supposed to be dedicated to my kids and there's 13 in there.

>> What do you mean? Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead, J. >> What do you say? What do you mean when you say dedicated to your kids? Is that like college fund? What is that?

>> Money in it every month. I am looking to invest it in something that will grow for them, but I'm not sure what to do, how to do that yet. >> Okay, >> this is great news. >> I mean, it's great news. So, agree because I am um very anxious.

>> I want to ask about the kids money that you have saved real quickly. I just want to make sure this is money that you've put aside, not money that other people gave you for the kids.

>> Some of it is given like um I have their money I have their birthday gift money separate. So, they each probably collectively have $2,000 separate that I just have for them. And then I have this other fund that we have put into that's about 13. >> Okay.

So, what I would do is >> it's actually 15. What I would do is exactly what you said. Any money that was gifted to them or that they worked hard for or worked for, I would keep that money aside for them because it really is for them.

>> So, for all intents and purposes, that money is now pulled in with money that we can put towards paying off debt.

>> Fair enough. >> I have this other Yes. I I um right now

we're looking at we're putting out about 89 to9,000 $8,900 to $9,000 a month between living.

>> Okay. >> Um so hold on hold on including these debt minimum payments. >> Yes. All my student loans, credit cards, the heliloc, the mortgage, car insurance. Okay.

>> What's your take-home pay off the 130?

>> Uh it varies. It's going to be a little

under one >> now. Maybe a little over one after health insurance and everything gets taken out. We have really high health insurance rates here for some reason.

>> Go ahead, Ken. >> Where were you going with telling us that? >> Uhhuh. >> You were going somewhere. I'm not sure that's where we need to go, but I'm curious.

>> I So, I have approximately So, what is

that about $40,000 a little more in savings? And I know this is going to sound crazy, but I ideally would like to

rent my house out. My husband's mother has property and she has an RV hookup. I I don't want to pay my mortgage anymore.

I want my house to be rented out for the next two years so that we can just lock in and funnel money into all of our debt. >> How much would you make on that >> on renting it out in my area? So, if my house is about 14 right now, we can probably go anywhere from 18 to 2100.

It's a fourbedroom house. >> It's not that much money, though. >> Yeah. What's your mortgage worth?

What's it worth? You owe 196. Did I hear that right? >> I owe 169 right now.

The original mortgage was like I bought it in 19. It was >> But what do you >> two? It was 198. I think it goes for right now between 3 and 350, but the market I I don't know.

I haven't looked into it much. >> Okay. >> To sell. >> Tell me what you feel about the house because I know you're tired of paying it.

It feels like it's been a drain. Do you

like the house? >> We we like the house. We don't want to live here forever. We want like honestly we want a pool. We want different space.

It was really good when we had like my son was born. It was really good. Really open concept. >> We don't. >> But I'm talking about today.

>> I'm talking about today. No one knows if they're going to stay in the house forever. I want you to answer this in a Ken Coleman fashion, which is quick and simple. Like what's the first thing that comes to mind? Do you like the house or not? >> I like the house. >> Okay. Do you want to stay in the house or not?

>> I don't need to. Okay, now we're getting somewhere. What about your husband? If you could answer for him, what would he say? >> He is the most passive person in the entire world. >> Okay, here's what I don't want. I don't want you to make a simple thing complex.

Making it complicated would be we're going to live with mom and do a rent

thing and all these other things. Um, I think that if we can go back to the basics here and go, okay, how much cash do we have? You have $40,000 in cash.

When we look at the 25 saved and the 15,000 of the quote kids money, that's now your money. Um, I'm going back to for now the heliloc because of the amount that's really just going to roll into your mortgage and be part of that.

Um, how many credit cards equal the 47,000 of credit card debt?

>> I have 11 overall. Three are paid off.

>> Good heavens. Okay. So, so the 40,000 goes in the snowball. Do you are you familiar with our debt snowball? Okay.

So, you take all those credit cards and you go smallest to largest and you start applying the 40,000 up the ladder, if you will, right? If we got a

>> I started with that method and then I'm like, I could pay the car off because the minimums for the little ones don't equate to the same as the car. So, the car if I pay 16 maybe.

>> Well, you can do it your way, but that's not what we teach. And we're trying to help you with momentum >> and um so and then you can potentially sell the car. It's like do you want to get out of this mess or not? But the way we teach it is very simple.

You called us, you do whatever you want to, >> but what we would tell you to do is take the 40,000 and you get 1,000 out of that in an emergency fund. It's baby step one, baby step two. We we now start taking that 39,000 if you will.

And then from there, and I I'm Jay

didn't say this. I don't want to put words in her mouth. I would sell your house if I were you.

>> Okay. >> Now, not as a you know, get out of dodge easy. You got to accept the mentality that you got yourself in this. But I would sell the house and I'd start fresh and start building a life that is debtree. >> It's definitely on the table to sell the house. But at the very least, first thing to go is this car at $16,000. Get that that payment back in your pocket.

Then you have the cash to buy something in cash, $5 or $6,000. Now you're 20 grand in. Throw the rest of that towards the next smallest debt, which looks to be student loans. Do them one by one.

you're going to feel the momentum of doing, you know, because they're likely broke into little chunks. So, do that.

And before you know it, all that's going to be left is this $47,000 of credit card debt.

So, if you don't know, Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool that's built and trained on Ramsay proven principles. And today, we're going to break down the most asked questions of the week. So, you can go in there and type in whatever questions and we kind of look at it and say, "What seems to be a theme for the week?" and that's what we're talking about. Uh there were questions around retirement, savings, obviously investing, but the most asked question this week was around the topic of emergency funds.

The main question was this. What is the best option to manage and store my emergency fund?

response. Your emergency fund should be liquid and easy to access in the event of a real emergency. You want to store it in a place where value won't go down when you need it most. So, putting it in the stock market is not really a good idea. Next, it tells you a high yield savings account gives you better interest rates than a regular savings account, but still keeps your money safe and available. And then finally, make sure the account is FDIC insured or NCUA

if it's a credit union like Fairwinds.

We always recommend 3 to 6 months of living expenses, but Ask Ramsey can help you figure out exactly how much you need in your emergency fund for your specific situation. So, you can go on there today to ask your question at ramseyolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. All right, Janette is in Kansas. Janette, how can we help today?

>> Um, hi, thanks for taking my call. I'm 61 years old. My husband is 70. We are completely debtree. No, we own our home, cars, student loans. So, we have absolutely no debt, no credit card debt.

>> Awesome. >> Got out with Ramsay plan probably 10 years ago. Um, we are looking to build a

permanent home. I know he doesn't like the term forever home, but as we're getting older, realize we need everything on one level and just

kind of makes you a little bit nervous. It's like, is that a wise thing to do at our age? >> I mean, are you paying cash for it?

>> Um, it would primarily be cash. could pay complete cash if we took money out of our retirement plans and we could go into it debtfree, but I don't know if that's wise either to we would have to pull out about 150 to 200.

>> Well, let's talk about it. So, what would be the entire spend on the new house?

>> 610. >> 610. Okay. And how much cash do you have to put towards that today?

>> Well, we would sell our current home. we would get about just under 400 between 350 and 400 for that.

>> Okay. >> Um we have put about a 100red already

into the house which would leave a little bit over a hundred left on it.

>> Mhm. Now I see how you got to the 110.

So how much is your nest egg?

>> Um close to 600.

>> Okay. So the idea is will it will it mess us up if we pull out the the 150

from the 600 nest egg? Right.

>> Um I don't think so. What's the other option? I mean, are you both still working or are you fully fully out of >> My husband is My husband is retired Air Force after 20 years of active duty and then he just recently retired um as a

nurse from the VA.

>> Okay. >> I am still working. I'm a nurse practitioner with my own practice.

>> Nice. What are you What are you guys taking home combined with those benefits plus your salary?

>> Um probably Well, the practice does over 200. I pull about 90 from it for a salary. Great. >> Um and then my So together we probably

are close to 200 about 180.

>> Okay. >> With no debt. I mean >> with no debt. I mean we travel a lot so we know that's going to really change with I mean I love to travel. I mean, if you wanted to cash flow this and you're both planning on still working for the next one to two years, I don't see why

that wouldn't be really really a priority and then whatever's left, you could pull off the nest egg. >> Well, you were just talking about compound interest. I would lose all that. >> No, no, no. I'm saying I'm saying >> that's why J saying don't touch it.

>> I'm saying don't touch it. And I'm saying for the next 1 to two years, like go ahead and start with the 500 that you have >> and then for the next 1 to two years, let it be your your deep intention that we're going to throw anything and extra that we can find on this uh $110,000

mortgage. And then when you're ready to stop working, that nest egg will have continued to grown for the next one to two years. And then you can say, "Okay, now we feel good about pulling out the 50 or whatever's left on the mortgage, and we can go into our non-working years with no mortgage.

Okay. It just seemed like do you take out a mortgage at 60 years of age? Like okay. >> Well, it's not about the age considering to do it, but I was just thought is that is that wise? So, it's it's not about the age because truthfully the money is there, but if you don't have to touch it today, why not? And you're both still working. You're still both making a really good uh income. And I also have a

feeling because of his military, how much is he going to like what's his retirement going to look like? Uh >> well, we don't know what his social security will be. He just turned 70.

>> Um >> but he's already getting he's already getting his two retirement checks from both of those other organizations.

>> Right. So my point is you're probably the >> Go ahead. >> Um the VA retirement pension will start next month because he just turned 70.

And Okay. >> And how much will that be?

>> Um that one we don't know. We're estimating according to the social security website his social security will be about 3,400 and then his current military retirement is about 2500,

>> right? Not bad. And then so my point is what you'll be pulling from your nest egg is not going to be a crazy sum of money just to keep your monthtomonth going on, especially with such a low mortgage. And to my point, okay, >> once you get to that point, you can just reach over into the nest egg and pull out the 50 or whatever it is and pull and pay it off.

Okay. >> How's that feel? >> Thank you. That feels better. I just was like I just you know it says that there's wisdom in the council of two or more and I'm like okay I'm not a financial planner and I'm like >> this is smart but we wanted something all one level living and um if we end up

in wheelchairs or walkers that it's we can stay there. >> Yeah. Absolutely. And go go and talk with your Smart investor pro and ask him hey here's what I was thinking. I called the Ramsey show. Here's what they said and ask what they what he thinks too. He might say that it feels good for you to pull all the money today. And if at the end of the day though, it's got to be something that you feel good about, too.

And it felt like, Ken, that hybrid was was where it was at. >> Yeah. I I'm just if I was in their shoes, I just would not touch that $600,000 retirement because I know that every seven years based on history, that's going to double. >> Yeah. If they're making a good rate of return. >> And so, I want to get all of that that I can. And with that kind of income, they can be patient. And yeah, I I I I wouldn't touch it at all if it were me.

>> They seem like they've got more working years in than what I said. I mean, he's 70, she's 61. So, >> she's got a great practice. You know, she she could probably pay herself more for a year. >> You know what I mean? If she, you know, there's some things she can do. Do I grow the business? Juice that a little bit. >> Uh they just have other options to be able to pay for this house. Well, they're in San Diego, but my guess is if they lived on 100 or 120, they'd be

done. I see where you're going. >> They'd be done lickety splits.

>> And here's what else we know about both of them. They're going to be more than comfortable on just his benefits alone.

You just know that. >> Oh, yeah. You know, >> definitely. Definitely.

And that's what I was saying. If you're not going to really have to touch it, then >> Yeah. >> There you go. All right.

Uh, we have some questions on the desk. I like these, Ken. These are from the social medias, by the way. Are these like the crispy cream hot and now like fresh off the press?

>> I hope so. Okay. All right. >> Uh if people interact with you on social media, what's the one that you're on and like talking to folks on if they want to know?

>> The only one that you're going to have a chance of getting a real response from me on is Instagram. >> Me too. >> Yeah. >> Does that have to do with our age?

>> Cuz I the kids are on >> Since I'm older than you, I'm going to say yes, I guess. I don't know the answer. Well, to prove >> I think it's the I think it's the app. I think I see the messages >> more than I do on other apps.

>> The DMs. Yeah. >> I feel like they're in my conscience.

>> I don't have the other ones on my phone. The only one I have is Instagram.

>> So, for that reason, let's take the Instagram questions. >> Oh, okay. Oh, that was a setup. >> Yeah, it was a setup. >> Okay. >> Um Morgan from Instagram said, "We just went to a restaurant that had a robot delivering our food." >> Oh, I'd love that. >> When the bill came, we didn't know if we should leave a tip. What are your thoughts on tipping culture, especially when you primarily interact with robots?

>> I have thoughts. So, I went to a local place uh recently where there was a

waitress and a robot. And so, the waitress came and took our order. Uh I don't mind I don't say the name of it, but it was a uh habachi, you know, where everybody sits around. Okay. So, you got a big group. So, the waitress comes up, lovely lady, and she's very kind, responsive, gets everybody's order.

And she takes off. 5 minutes later, here

comes the robot with the food. And she kind of followed up to make sure we had drinks the whole time, but the robot brought us the food. I still tipped her the normal amount because of her involvement. All the robot did basically

do what the 16-year-old kid does at the nice restaurant. >> Yeah. No, no, I go 20 to 22.

>> And you did even in that scenario? Yeah.

>> Good for you, Ken Coleman.

>> I probably would have done the same thing. I love tipping, but I'm not tipping a robot. I don't tip at coffee shops. Beware. Well, what's the difference?

It's a coffee shop.

Well, welcome back to the Ramsey Show.

are here in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Ken Coleman, are you ready to get to the phone lines yet again?

>> I'm ready. Who's up next?

>> Landon, Reno, Nevada. To this day, anytime I think of Reno, I think of the movie Sister Act. >> Yeah, good call. >> What's up, Landon?

>> You guys don't think of Reno 911, Lieutenant Dangle, and and all of them.

>> Not my genre of uh television.

>> I do have questions about Lieutenant Dangle. >> Yeah, I would. Yeah, I I don't even know who that is. I'm not sure I want to.

>> You know, it's a Comedy Central show, but yeah, I know I know the scene that you're thinking about, Jade, with um with history down here by the Reno Arch and everything. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. >> All day, man. Oh, Landon, you're you're you're one of us. How can we help today?

>> Oh, definitely. Definitely. Hey guys, I got a little uh predicament. I'm thankful for your call, Ken. I think you're amazing. Jade, I think you're amazing, too. Here's my predicament.

I'll keep it nice and short. HOA fee went up to $1,08 per month from $450 per month. I know.

Um and I don't know what to do.

>> Does that include a swim up bar right to your front door? What in the world?

>> It should. >> Yeah. For that kind of a hike. What's the perks? >> I know. I know. So, uh no perks.

Basically, what's going on here that we have a special assessment for the time being to to do the roads roofs and all of this stuff. some some capital maintenance with the uh entire complex. But >> so it's short term. >> Yeah.

Well, so it's going to be at least a year and then from here on out, I mean, there's no way we we we're probably going to need to to do this for I don't know, three, four years if if not more. Uh we're probably going to need to get up to, you know, two, three, four million bucks. Um and we're not there.

>> Wow. I'm sorry. That's not cool.

>> So what's your question?

>> So here's my question. I am going to move out of my house. I'm going to rent for $1,500 a month. But now I have the home that I own. Um, and basically what

I'm kind of going back and forth with is should I rent my house out or should I sell my home? If I rent my home out, I'll basically be cash neutral. I'm not making anything. I'm not losing anything. But then if I were to sell it, I could probably make about 250 in in equity. So I don't really know what the government >> and that's a nobrainer. It's a norainer.

>> Yes. You don't want to live in this place. We can tell. Here's why. And you can push back, but let me tell you what I hear. I hear a guy I hear a guy who's rightfully upset about an ridiculous

upcharge in HOA. A,000 bucks a month.

Are you kidding me? And you're going, I don't love this house that much. I want to get out. You have no attachment to this house. you got $250,000 worth of equity in it and you're going to get a reasonable rent to kind of reset and figure out what the next step is versus

rent it out and you're saying it's a net net. You're not going to make any money.

Well, guess what? That means you're losing money because when something breaks on this house and it will, guess who has to fix it? You. So now you're going in the hole. So for that reason, as George would say, I'm out.

>> I'm out. That's funny you say that. So, I did the ask Dave Ramsey thing on the AI chap. >> This could be embarrassing. What did that say? >> No, it said exactly what you guys said.

The quote that it said was like um it said it said you're bleeding. You're bleeding every month. And I was like that's exactly something that the host would would would say. So, by the way, kind of cool to see. >> I think the way I said it was far more entertaining than Ask Ramsey. But it's still a great resource. >> Yeah. >> It's gonna give you the nuts and bolts.

Yeah. >> We're gonna give you the style. We're going to give you the style and and in this case all khaki apparently.

>> Thank you very much. >> You're welcome. So, Landon, did we solve your problem for you?

>> No, it seems like it was a pretty easy thing. I mean, that's the way that I was kind of kind of leaning toward. But, uh yeah, you know, it's my first home. It kind of it kind of sucks to get rid of it. I guess there's a little bit of sentimental there, but um not >> it wasn't going to be forever anyway.

That's my thoughts. By the way, this is a this is a great reminder how how fun Ask Ramsey is for people who can't get through on the show. >> Yeah. >> Don't have the time, maybe you're nervous to call us.

This guy went to Ask Ramsey, >> uh the AI version of our of our show host, right? I guess is what you can say. And he got the same answer. So, uh just a fun little plug there because it is very helpful to those of you who can't get through.

So, >> yes, indeed it is >> fun stuff.

house that I'm not making enormous money on when it comes to rent. In other words, if it's a cash house, like all of Dave's houses, that's one thing. But where you're breaking even or barely making money, no. >> Renting by default is never the move. If

you're going to have a rental, it's I set out to have a rental and I chose a

specific house for the purposes of rental, right? Like, let let there be some intentionality behind it. All right, Maria's in San Diego, California.

Maria, how can we help today? Maria,

>> hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yeah, you bet. What's up?

>> Um, so I am in a bit of a predicament.

Um, I started my own business last year,

started getting paid in August, but it

has been a little bit slower this last couple of months, and with the work that I've had, my projections for income for the next like six months are really low.

Um, so right now I'm in a position where

I'm not sure if I'll be able to make my

credit card payment uh >> or it's going to be either that or my car. Uh >> oh. So tell us what that is in real numbers. What were you bringing in that felt like a good income to live on and then what is it now?

>> Yeah. So um before when I was in corporate I was making about 8,000 a month. When I first started my business, it went down to like 6,000 and now I'm

looking at like three.

>> Okay. So, in August it was like around 6,000. You felt good. Now you're at 3K.

How how many months has it been at 3,000?

>> Um since like November.

>> Oh boy. Okay. So, there's a trend here.

Have you identified what the issue is?

Like why business is down?

>> Yes. So, right now, my most consistent

source of income was a um subcontra

subcontractor job that I have. Yeah.

>> Um which it's kind of like dependent on how much work the other company has. Um I just signed a contract with my actual business. We do property services, so we do turnover management. Um, so that

should be starting soon, but it is going to be less pay per um, work because

right now where I'm at right now, it is on the military base. So the pay per gig is a lot better here. >> Okay. And it's just you. You're the sole employee. >> It's myself and my boyfriend, but his his debt is a lot lower.

>> So the be I mean the good news is it's it's you and your boyfriend, and you're working as the work comes in since it's subcontracting. So, the the best thing that I could do if I were in your shoes is while I'm working to get more business coming in the door or while there's a down season or whatever the nature of that is, I'm also going to have another job over here on the side that brings in the gap of what I need

>> until you can figure out how to get this back up to making you 6 to8,000 a month.

>> Yeah. Okay. My my biggest I guess dilemma right now is uh three of my credit cards already hit the 30-day late, >> right? which means you need money.

>> Yeah, >> that's all that is. That means, okay, yesterday I needed a job, so that means today your weekend is going to be spent pounding pavement and getting online and and finding whatever you can to fill

that gap. Because if you don't have dollars and they're calling you, all you can do is say, "Hey, I don't have any money. Uh, check me next month until

this happens." >> So income is the name of the game. I mean, that's the only solution. and Kim, what have you. >> I mean, you did such a great job. You don't add much more to a really good song except maybe repeat. So, there you go. >> Refrain. >> Thank you. You helped me out. I shouldn't be talking music terms with you ever.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data that's out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market.

But we're here to help make the latest trends easy to understand. For instance, median home prices dipped a little below 400,000 last month, which is typical for this time of year. Mortgage rates also dipped to 5.44 in January, down from 6.27 last January, giving buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when home prices or rates drop.

So to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market or click the link in the in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Alrighty then.

Texas. Haley, you're on the line. How can we help today? >> Hi. Y'all are absolutely going to hate me whenever I tell you what I want to be doing. >> No, >> let's test it. >> That's a strong word. Hate is too strong. >> Um I am a realtor investor here in Texas

and I have a long-term boyfriend. Um and

I we were buying a house together and I

told him um I didn't want a ring. I wanted a house instead. We've both been married previously and we're coming in together. Obviously, we're very Dave Ramsey friendly and we know it. Um, but

he is carrying quite a little bit more debt than I am. Um, I am credit card free. He is as well. However, we I'm just trying to figure out how I want to tackle his debt when we buy the house,

after we buy the house. >> It's not It's not It's >> I don't even You know what? I'm going to sit back for a second. I'm going just let you go first. >> I would just say for the people who are listening for the first time cuz you said that you were Ramsay friendly and then you went off to say things of such nature that it doesn't even apply.

>> And you know what's funny about it? You're laughing the whole time and you know what you you know what she's about to say, right? >> I know. I >> Why are you laughing about it? Uh because honestly because of the market that we are in and the real estate the way the way it's going, it would just be too good to pass up this property to where obviously we would want to live in it for a little bit.

>> Why don't you just buy it? How about >> Well, I do I can buy it myself, but I

really want him to be on board with me.

And it's not bad debt. Like we are selling He has a camper that he was living in and working out of. Um, so doing like insurance adjustment across the US. So that's really the only one that's a major one. The other one is just a minor amount, maybe 10,000.

>> Here's the thing. It's not about the debt for me. For me, there there the debt is part of the home buying equation. Don't get me wrong, >> but in the bigger picture of what you're talking about, if I'm going to address these things uh by thing that's most on

fire to thing that's not as burning as quickly, I would say the first thing is the idea of buying a house with a boyfriend is very very risky business

>> because it's you're doing something that should be very long-term with someone that you can't you really don't know if it's going to be long term and if because of the the nature of the mingling of money, it can get really, really messy. And if it doesn't have to be messy, the easier thing to do would just be like, "Hey, I'm going to buy this house or he's going to buy this house." And then if you so choose that you're going to live together in that way, that's your choice.

this were to go south and not proceed into marriage. >> Okay, Haley, that's about as good a word as you're going to get on that. What is your response to that? because I can hear you saying yes to her but you have a retort. >> So what is your retort?

>> So basically with me being an investor so I do actually show which I you know

the banks don't love me but my CPAs do uh you know that always that joke and so really with qualifying for this property you know he shows way more of an income.

I mean it almost doubles what or triples what my income is. >> What do you Okay, pause. What investing

do you have? You sound like you're overleveraged. >> Mhm. >> No, I have 10 rentals. Um and so basically I >> How much do you owe? How much do you owe on 10 rentals?

>> Um I have three loans. Um totaling about

225,000.

>> Okay, that's not as bad as I thought.

>> I thought it was going to be worse. >> Okay, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Uh, I want to give you props because even though you may not have done some of these things the Ramsay way, the fact that you have 10 rentals and you only owe 225, unless these are just really crappy properties, there's something that you've done that you've not gone ridiculously.

>> Do you see what I'm saying? Like for 10 for 10 rentals, Ken, I would think that I thought for sure you're going to say a couple million. >> But why wouldn't you buy but why? So, what does that really mean? Because Jay gave you great advice. You buy it yourself. >> Why wouldn't you? And you you have 10 rentals >> because because I love like I I am an

investor at heart. So my that's such a

crap answer. >> You said that three times and it still didn't >> What's the real reason? And you said this. Let me tell you what you said. So you said, "Well, yeah, Jade, you're right, but I want us to be on the same page. I want him to be in it with me." And I even think that's a copout.

>> So what? >> Well, he showed more income. So with our lender, they basically could not >> I know what the answer is, but you won't tell me. You're trying to play a game on interest rate because >> it's not that >> what is it? >> I think >> my lender basically qualified said that we would be qualified based on his his income based off my >> Haley, you're smart. You know today that

it's not a thing of numbers or interest rates or anything like because you know today, hey, if I really wanted this property, I could just sell off one of the ones I have. I could buy it in C. Like you know that. Are you trying to lock him in? Yeah, I told him to I turned down a ring for a mortgage.

>> Yeah, but Okay, do you know how crazy that sounds? Why don't you just go down to the courthouse? Let's >> get married. >> Do you want this guy to be your husband or not? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, then why don't you let him give you the ring? >> Yeah, >> that's true.

>> What's the problem? Tell us for real.

For real. It's just us.

>> I I have been independent for so long and so with my, you know, being divorced and having uh my son, it's been it's definitely scary. >> Yeah. You just told us, you just told us you want this guy to be your husband >> and you were willing to do a more.

Here's what I want to frame up for you.

You said that you want to be independent and maybe you've been burned before. All of those things. Do you understand? And I can I'll validate for you that that makes sense to me that you would be you would have some trepidation >> getting into another relationship. That makes sense. What doesn't make sense is how you are solving it >> because you're creating something that has the ability to be even more dramatic, even more work, like even

worse for everybody involved if it were to go south. >> So, why not fuel >> what you're feeling into a better solve, which is I might not be ready to get married yet. Maybe I'm not.

>> Great point. >> That's okay if you're not ready to be married. >> And Jade's making a great point. If it goes bad, then there's going to be a legal, very clear legal decision on what happens with the house as an asset. But if you guys go in together and there's no legal marriage, then it's a mess. You know this. >> Yes.

>> I don't think we can sell you on our philosophy, but I think if we come to your page, no, no, I'm not trying to >> We're going to go on your philosophy, which is you're independent, so be independent >> and and so be independent or then get

legally married. >> Okay. So that this risk that you're afraid of goes away in the sense of it's

going to be clean if there is another divorce and nobody wants to think about it. But that's your fear. So let's go there. >> So our our position that you should be married and combined finances while it is coming from a different vantage point than you have it does meet you where your biggest fear is.

>> So take call this guy back. I wish we could get him on the phone and you cuz I would make you tell him >> that that you were foolish and that you will take the ring. Yeah. >> And uh with the ring comes an actual marriage. >> Mhm. >> And we're going to do our money together >> and we're going to dominate.

>> Yeah. >> We're going to we're going to heal from our past >> and we're going to come together and we're going to set out a vision for our life that we both are in lock step on and then we're just going to do this thing. >> How long have you been together?

Uh over two years. >> Oh, for heaven's sakes. >> Two years. And And where are you guys living now? Where are you living now?

>> Um so we do live part of the time. We we're pretty respectful of our kids. So when he has his child and I have mine, we kind of stay apart, but when we don't, we obviously are living with me, but with him traveling. So he's he's staying a lot more at my property, which is one of my investments that I am doing. So >> y I got to tell you, this is exhausting.

And by the way, the whole respect for the kids thing, they know what's happening. Let's stop playing games.

Let's get married.

>> All right, Ken. I'm with you. I'm with you. I don't think she's ready. That's my hot take of the day. >> And I think you're probably ready. >> I don't think she's ready. >> You're always right.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Jessica in North Dakota. My husband and I are on Baby Step 2 and we'll be paying off our last 10,000 of debt this year. I have a

2014 SUV with three growing boys. We

desperately need something bigger. My in-laws have said they would buy us a minivan and we could pay them back when we've paid off our debt. The only problem with this offer is their stipulation that we have to purchase a new vehicle. I'm very grateful to have such a generous family, but I have heard you say never to buy a new vehicle.

Should we take them up on this offer?

No. And I also don't buy that. Um, three

growing boys uh don't fit in a 2014 SUV. Uh,

>> they have very long limbs.

>> Yeah. I mean, I don't care if they're all 6'2.

uh they can be uncomfortable for the amount of time you're getting them from point A to B. This is one of those things that is just an absolute It sounds very reasonable in your head, Jessica, but to somebody like me who has

no emotion attached to it, I go, "Well, what kind of SUV were they making in 2014 that three boys can't sit in the back?" I >> I don't know. Cuz I'm thinking about when my parents had a 1995 Suburban and

we fit in the back. What's the difference? >> Uh, so that's the first issue. Uh, and

and a minivan, that's the answer to the

three growing boys. What are they, part giant? They'll they're going to fit in the SUV. So, this just keeps falling apart. And then it gets to, well, they're going to loan us money. That's family. We'd say, "We don't want you to borrow money, >> but it has to be brand new." Apparently, it has to be >> It's got to be brand new. So now they're fleecing you on their conditions.

Everything about this is just so wacky.

And we have created in our minds this need that is not a need. And we are wrapping a desire up in the clothing of a need. And there's nothing about this that is a need. And my gosh, you have 10,000 to go.

>> Come on. >> Just finish it.

>> And then walk forward to baby step

three. And you know, and while you're doing that, cash flow the car. Get creative. Uh, but in no way, shape, or form do I have any sympathy for your

three growing boys.

>> And how that could be anything. >> By the way, one of the great hardships of life that every young man needs to go through is to sit in the middle. And I

don't think they have a hump anymore. Do you >> with your knees all folded up in the center? >> Yeah. Do they still have a hump in the middle of the back of these SUVs? That would be great cuz I'm wondering if this SUV has a third row. Sounds like it doesn't. But if it's got a hump in the middle, one of those boys needs to have his knees touching his nose.

>> Yeah, >> that's just >> that's a right of passage. >> Yeah, >> it's a right of passage.

>> I mean, don't get me started. I remember there were times where if we had a friend come with us, >> uh, one of us would get up in the back window cuz cars back then, cars back then, you know what I'm saying, Kelly?

Cars back then had enough space >> that you could get a good size 10year-old, 11year-old and you you would

lay the full length and you it was great. You could stare like a freak at the car behind you. >> I I was a part of this.

>> You know what I'm talking about. Now, I will tell you, on a sunny day, it got kind of warm. >> Oh, you were sweating, getting car sick in that window >> and just staring at the poor drivers behind you like you're some sort of psychopath. Uh, I digress.

>> You called a spade a spade on this. I agree with you wholeheartedly, Ken.

Sounds like What did you say? Desire wrapped up in >> Oh, this is desire wrapped up in the clothes of a need. Very profound. Very

profound. Katie, >> I gotta call my kids and tell them you said that. >> I will. They won't care. They're going to be like, "They don't they don't care." >> All right. Katie's in Ohio. How can we help today, Katie?

>> Hi, guys. How are you?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> So, my my question is I'm on Baby Step 2 with a job that provides a company car.

So, I don't have a car payment or pay for gas or anything like that right now.

>> Nice. Um, but I recent I recently received a job offer which it would be a pay increase. Um, but instead of a company car, they would give a monthly allowance for car payment and gas separately. Um, so my question is, if I take this job, should I pause baby step two and try to save as much money as possible to put towards a car or should I keep throwing money at my debt and then just use the car allowance when I potentially start?

>> Um, that's a good question. You're going to need something to drive in right away. Do you have any money saved whatsoever?

>> No, I'm a baby step, too, so I have maybe 1,500 bucks.

>> Okay. How much is the car allowance once they give it to you?

>> Uh, it would be around 850 a month. Uh,

not including gas. Gas would be an additional like 2 to30 a month.

>> Okay. Are you close? Would you be close enough to the work that in the meantime you could do something like take the bus or Uber or do something short-term while you stacked up that you know however much the car allowances in order to just get yourself a quick beater to get started.

>> Um well the job includes uh it's it's

sales so I would have to use the car to drive to different offices. Um but the

other thing is it wouldn't start until June uh maybe July even. So, I would

have a few months to save up. Um, so I

think I I'm thinking I could potentially save up 10 to 15,000. So,

>> it's great. You can get a you can get a fine car for 10 to 15,000.

>> That's great. >> I mean, this is a real opportunity if you and I love, by the way, your your suggestion because you you you are demonstrating someone who uh has got some self-discipline.

Um, and if you can do that, uh, and use

this car allowance effectively, that's a win for you. So, I I that's that's the play. You just answered your own question.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I've just been on such a um motivated kick on paying off my debt, it's going to hurt to pause it a little bit, but I know in you know in in the long run it'll be >> but you know what's great about this is um it's in the grand scheme of things it's not really a pause you know like you're you're not this isn't like going to put you way behind. You're only talking about a few >> stopping pro you're not stopping progress. >> Yeah, that's what I meant to say.

That's even better. you are pausing the act of of paying it down, but but you're doing it for a reason and you're going to pick right back up where you left off and not be behind. >> Yeah, buying a car in cash is great progress in your >> Yeah, good for you. >> Yeah, very good, Katie.

Thank you for the call. Uh, next up we have Gary in California.

>> Hi, Jade. Hi, Ken. >> Hi. My basic question, I got to give you some details, but my basic question is how can I enjoy monetary gifts I've received from my parents given I've

tithed all my life but found it difficult to save. I'm very late in life and I'm 66 years old and just came to Ramsay a few years ago. I now have an emergency fun paid off my house, got a pension but not much savings and also as as I'm retired looking after my folks.

So recently my parents gave me and my brother $38,000.

And because my mom knows I want to go to Africa on safari, she said, "This is for your Africa trip." >> Great. And >> I'm thankful. >> What do you have? >> What do you have in savings?

>> Sorry. >> What do you have in savings right now?

>> Nothing of my own. >> You have zero dollars in savings?

>> No, I mean I' I've been given some money, so I' I've got I've got some money, but um >> How much? about

over 100,000. >> Okay, so let me just recap right quick.

You're retired. You have no debts. You

have $100,000 saved and you got a $38,000 gift to go on safari in Africa.

>> Yeah. >> And but you told us that you've not been good at saving. So I'm I'm so confused.

>> Okay, here's the deal.

If I found it very difficult throughout life to save. I always made the 10% for God, but I always I hadn't learned the

Ramsey principle. So, I was going through life and at the end of the month, I just didn't have enough left to save rather than putting savings number one. >> Okay. Okay. >> So, what I've got is a situation where I have a kind of a bad taste in my mouth at spoiling things because I feel ashamed >> for needing the money for needing the money for a bucket list trip. I have no sense of satisfaction. Well, let me fix that. Let me fix that. Let me fix it.

First of all, this is a gift >> and you need to receive it as a gift or else it robs your parents of the blessing. And a safari trip's not going to cost you 38,000.

>> Go do a great safari trip and then invest or save the rest of it and enjoy your life. You're 66. We're not promised tomorrow. Go take some pictures of some giraffes, man. >> Yeah, but you also need to save some retirement for yourself cuz you don't have it. I told him that, but he needs to go do the safari, too. He's got 100 grand he could start investing. >> Yeah, he needs to start that immediately.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

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Our

Ramsay Show scripture and quote of the day. Philippians 4:13. King Coleman. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. >> Yes. >> Amen. >> I love it. >> Dolly Parton. If your actions create a legacy that inspires others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, then you are an excellent leader.

How about Dolly dropping some leadership gold? That's actually a really great quote. >> It is inspiration. >> Oh, she's a treasure, folks. She's a national treasure. >> Love it. Love it. All right. Ellie is in Louisiana. Ellie, how can we help today?

>> Hi. So, me and my new husband, we just got married. First marriage for both of us. Hopefully the only marriage. We're a young we're a young Christian couple.

We're looking at buying a place, but we're not sure like, are we, this is gonna sound so silly, are we too young to buy a buy property? We neither of us

have debt. We both have college degrees.

We have together like over a h 100,000 in savings. Like, would it be a good

next step as a couple to buy a house together? >> How long you been married?

>> We just got married in January, but we were together for five years prior.

>> Okay. And uh how old are you guys?

>> We are 23 and 25.

>> Okay. >> Fantastic. What are your incomes?

>> I make about 60 and he makes over a

hundred. >> Fantastic. And what do you do?

>> I am an engineer. I just graduated, but

he is actually in the finance realm, but

he's newer to it. And he's very good with money, obviously, or we wouldn't have that much in savings. But we're just like scared almost to have a

mortgage. >> Sure. Well, let's walk through the emergency fund. So, based on you know your numbers, do you guys have a threemonth or a six-month emergency fund in that 100,000? I know that's more than you need, but what what would be 3 months? What would be six months?

>> Um, we're currently renting in $1,300

place right now. So that would be you

know probably at least 6 months plus any

expenses we would have in that time more than probably that >> oh 100,000 is is more than 6 months of

basic expenses for you guys. So what kind of a size house are we talking about and not size actually what price point are you guys looking at because I I assume you guys have driven around or you've been on websites looking at houses. What are you looking at?

Yeah, we're looking between like 250 to

350. We're looking at getting a duplex

and fixing it up and living in one side and renting out the other.

>> I don't like that. Jade, what do you think about that? >> Never heard that. >> Uh, all I can tell you is when I was in high school, we moved into a duplex >> and it started out fine

and then it went south very quickly. And what sucks is if the person on door

number one doesn't get along with the person on door number two, you have to see them every day. >> Those walls are thin. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah, they are.

>> That's a horrible idea, Ellie. You're so first like a first.

>> Yeah, you're so sweet. I I didn't want to say it that way at first, but now I just have to warn you. This is a This is an awful idea. You guys are already thinking You're thinking our first house, guess what? will live in it, but it's a real investment. And I just think because it's a duplex and all the problems that come with it, we don't think that's a strong investment strategy. And it sure as heck is not a great young marriage strategy. You guys

need your own place without any kind of headaches literally next door.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Don't do that. Please.

>> Could with our income. Do you guys think that we could buy a house then? Like >> Yeah. Jade walking through. I just I'm so scared of a mortgage.

>> Okay, Jade's going to walk you through how you would do it with that really nice income. So, there's nothing to be scared of. >> Tell me what you guys are taking home every month.

>> Every month. Um, so he gets commissions, so it really depends, but we've had months where it's been like 10 grand and

then we've had months where it's been like the lowest has been like six.

>> Okay? So, I would plan based off of the lowest month because that's going to give you a measure of peace. So, if six grand is the lowest month, I'd say, okay, for us to really feel great, we don't want our mortgage to be any more than $1,500 a month. That's 25% of our

take-home pay. And that's kind of a parameter that we use here at Ramsey Solutions. And then what I would do, which is what I'm doing right now, I go over on ramseyolutions.com and I pull up the mortgage calculator and I say, "Okay, let's pretend we're looking for a house." You said between >> 3 250 to 350, right?

>> Mhm. >> Okay. So, let me just I'll look at 325.

How about that? That's kind of somewhere in the middle. >> And since plenty of house for a young couple. >> And so, if I say, "Okay, what happens if we put our down payment? We need to get to $1,500 a month." So, I'm going to make this a pretty hefty down payment.

Um, and we're still not quite there yet.

Let's see.

But all I'm doing is plugging in the numbers to see. You're going to have to put down a lot to get there. So, I don't think you guys are quite there yet. you're going to be putting down upwards of 160,000 to get there at 325.

>> So sit on that number here for a second and you're not we're not holding you to this. How long do you think? So this has got to be above and beyond your emergency fund. Okay.

>> So if you do 3 months emergency fund and you you're going to calculate that, right? You know how to do that and go, okay, this is our these are our our total expenses to to run everything, right? We're not crazy about this.

What's that number? And so above and beyond that, how long do you think it would take you to save 160,000?

100 from where we are probably only another year. Our that's what I'm thinking is very low right now.

>> Exactly. >> So could you wait a year?

>> You guys are just married. Could you wait a year and get a fat down payment?

>> And here's what else is going to happen in that year. Your husband who works on commissions is going to find his flow

and he's going to have way more months where he's sitting at 10,000 as opposed to 6,000. You see what I'm saying? Mhm.

>> So, it gives you guys time. It gives you time to get in a flow both income-wise and it gives you time to save up the down payment you really need to get in a house that's just yours. We don't want Billy Bob ac across the doorway. You know, >> I'm tell Oh, by the way.

Yeah. By the way, I mean, yeah, the people that are living in duplexes, you got to do your homework on this. Go drive around. Sit in the parking lot of some local duplexes and watch who's coming in and out of those.

I'M JUST SAYING and many of us have, but not long term.

>> I'm calling balls and strikes right now.

Go sit in a parking lot because your husband's not on this call. He may go, "Well, Ken is okay. Here's what he needs

to do. Go sit in the parking lot of four or five different area duplexes and just take a just just kind of pay attention to what's going on." Now, I also want to say one other thing. Actually, it's a question. >> Are you guys in a a nice apartment right now? What what's your situation?

It's a 2x one right now. It's a twobedroom, one bathroom, which is fine.

We just We know we're going to need more space. >> Stop it. Stop it. You'd been married two months. Is it a nice apartment complex?

>> It's fine. >> Overall, yes, it's fine.

>> You got a nice pool.

>> Uh, all right. >> Listen, they'll be okay. You guys have big home ownership goals.

>> I know. I was going to I was trying to get her trapped to go. Would you just enjoy being married and not having not having to worry about a roof? >> Here's the thing. >> Or the HVAC. I mean, this is things that young couples don't think about. Let me tell you something. Everybody wants a house. Nobody wants to deal with the problems of a house. >> Truer words have not been stated.

>> Okay. That's what I want to say to young couples. Cool it. >> Yeah. >> Cuz you have no stress right now

living in an apartment. You got none.

>> Yeah. Because when I once you buy a home and I say the word water, you like it,

the moment you experience water being in the wrong place, owning a home. >> Let me tell you something right now, Jade. I'm I'm I'm going to be an old man right now. I'm griping about the fact that I just had to spend $2,500 to get my beautiful, gorgeous tree in my front yard cut down and get the stump taken out because of an ice storm.

>> I just want to keep it real for all you young couples that are just dying to get a house. Well, guess what? I had to cut the tree down because it split into it blew up because of the ice. >> To pay an arborist is crazy money.

>> 2500 bucks. >> Yeah, man. I know. >> Do you think I was And by the way, I have it. But do you think I was happy about it? >> It's never fun. >> I'm still griping about it right now.

All of America's having to deal with me griping. But guess what? That h that doesn't happen when you live in a nice little apartment complex and the ice storm comes through. >> Well, yeah. Cuz then you just call maintenance and you're like, "Hey, >> yeah. Something goes wrong. They send Roger up." >> Yeah. And Roger comes in, you know, and he fixes it and then we go on date night. >> Yeah, exactly. But in a house, it hits different. >> I'm still griping about that tree. And by the way, it's a gorgeous tree. Yeah.

Gone. >> Let me tell you, I'm still a little offended about what you said about us duplex dwellers.

>> Was I wrong?

>> I don't know, kid. >> Y'all drive around this weekend. Spend 45 minutes in the duplex parking lot.

Pay attention to who's coming in and out of those places. That's all I'm saying.

I'm keeping it real. >> Oh boy. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to have financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 261. You Can’t Make the Same Money Mistakes and Get Better Outcomes | January 28, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:47:31 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we are here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Gamble, joined by best-selling author Rachel Cruz and co-host of another show we do together, Smart Money Happy Hour on the Ramsey Network. The number to call is88255225.

And I'd be remiss not to mention this this crazy winter storm that has hit our area, Nashville, very hard. So, thinking and praying for all of those that have been affected by this. >> For sure. A lot without power. >> We made it here through the ice to provide this show. It's what America needs right now, I guess. Rachel, here we are. Jake is going to kick us off in Detroit. Jake, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> How's it going? >> Great. How are you? How can we help?

>> Doing all right. Um, so, uh, me, my

cousin, and our friend, we started a company. Um, and we do like paranormal investigations and things like that.

>> Paranormal investigation. We're talking ghosts. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Wait, what? >> Real life Ghostbuster.

>> Yes. So, um,

I give you like a basic what we do. We kind of just like go into people's homes and and confirm that there's a presence there. Um, >> shut up. >> How do you do this, Jake?

>> Um, so it's a number of things. Uh, it

depends on, you know, where we're at. um

you know what what kind of person we're dealing with as in like we know what what the spirit is because sometimes you get understood the basics of what you know you know what paranormal investigating was built on opposed all the fancy equipment. We do have a bunch of equipment but it it depends on >> like detects like orbs and stuff.

>> Yeah. So uh >> I know about orbs. I've done I've done a ghost tour in my my >> you called on the right day. Rachel is all she's about to pay you. Okay. So, sorry. Sorry. This is this is a business you started with your cousin.

>> Yeah, my cousin and then our friend.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, three of you. When did you start the business?

>> Um, we started a business in August of

25. >> Okay. And how much have you guys made from this business so far?

>> Um, so based on what we're looking at, we're looking at between 10 and $20,000 a year. >> Um, >> between the three of you, that's going to be split.

>> Yeah. Okay. So now my my question is is that is there a possibility cuz obviously we can't do a full-time offer of $20,000 a year even if it was just one of us. Um so my question is is

number one is it possible for me to do this full-time and number two if it is what are the steps to making this a full-time thing.

>> Okay so let's talk about it regardless of what the business or hobby is. Let's talk through this how to do this wisely.

We always tell people you want to get the boat close to the dock. Meaning, we want this business to be generating enough income to where you clearly can go, hey, if I did this 40 hours a week and we scaled up, I could definitely replace my income, if not get a raise.

>> So, what are you making now?

>> Um, right now, uh, my full-time job, >> uh, around $60,000 a year.

>> Good for you. >> So, let's say the business, you were like, "Hey, we can see a path where this could make 180K this year after expenses. is we could we could pay ourselves 180k, 60 grand each to make this work. Would you all go all in on it? >> No, absolutely.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, with the partnership side, Jake, that's the that's the money side.

And I will say there partnerships can be very difficult and the fact that you guys have three people who are going to have ownership in this company. um you guys need to write out very very very very clearly kind of this um almost

contract between you all when the worst case happens because for a lot of people in partnerships the worst case happens and that's everything from um addictions

um affairs divorces uh I mean you go

death yes someone >> wants out and they want to buy out you got to buy out their share now how does that work >> all of it so you got to go through like in like a lot of detail.

family member and a good friend." there's a a chance that that um

relationship doesn't survive if something happens to the business. >> Cuz here's what happens. Likely one of you is going to be working harder or at least think you're working harder than the other ones. And so then there's resentment. You go, "Well, I feel like I should get 50%. You guys should get 25 each cuz I'm handling all the business.

I'm doing all the sales." And so that's where you guys need to get very clear on what the roles are, what the boundary lines are between your your KAS, your key results areas. And so if you do it that way, this could be a fun hobby that turns into something. What's your current game plan? Like how do you get customers?

>> Um so uh it's really word of mouth and

we have social media but it's not really you know social media social media isn't really you know big or anything. Um but it's really word of mouth. So if we um like we did an investigation at uh a

pretty big uh barbecue restaurant uh near us um and that got us a few other

people. Um now as for what you were saying with the uh with people having

you know written out roles. So um

I am the I I I consider myself a lead.

It just is how how it is. So, but most of the time I am scheduling. I am, you

know, finding new customers if possible.

I, you know, looking for anything new.

>> So, you're like customer acquisition, new business. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> What about the other two? >> Um, >> my cousin, she is the the merchandise person. Oh, >> we got merch already >> as well as >> what was that? >> You got merch like t-shirts and hats.

What are we talking? Uh uh so um Holly,

we we go to like a third party place where they create it and and we don't buy anything. They just they sell it and we get a little bit little >> Got it. Like a drop ship situation.

Okay. >> Yeah. >> All right. And then third person, the friend. >> Uh yeah, he is the equipment tech. Um so what he does is if he wants to he well, first of all, if anybody asks questions, he's the guy to ask. Um he's like the

>> Yeah. All >> without him, this whole business kind of dissolves. >> Well, no, not mean all of us know all about the equipment. It's just I I have him making having him ask answer all the questions because um

basically to keep the workhold off of myself and my cousin.

>> So, uh him and I know all about the equipment. My cousin still knows about it, but she doesn't know. >> Gotcha. Okay.

But >> um >> uh basically what his job is is number one to explain the equipment to people if they have questions. Number two is that if you want if he finds a new piece of equipment his job is to learn as much about that piece of equipment as possible. Bring it to the company and say here here's this it cost this this amount of money and it can do this this and this and this you know we I think we should buy it and then we have a discussion about it. >> Okay.

Most important question.

>> Oh yeah. >> And then what happens? Do you get like a reward?

>> Uh, >> you get paid the same amount whether you find something or not. >> It's a good question. >> Um, yeah. So, basically how I work is is

it's kind of like, you know, a money back guarantee. Um, so if you go in here and uh so we we charge anywhere between

$50 to $110 to$160

per per house depending on, you know, what we're looking at, what the dangers are. Um, >> you said $160 on the high end.

Yeah, >> I think you guys need to up your prices, man. This is serious work.

>> If you want to scale it, you need to look at all the factors here and you need to get enough people in the pipeline where you can go, "Hey, if we did this full time, we can make this work." >> To the point that you're having to turn people down cuz you don't have time for it. >> That's how you know this is going to work. But for now, leave it as a hobby.

Continue to try to grow it. I would start a YouTube channel and really make this a media company. >> That's a good point. And it's been what, six months? They said since August.

>> August of 25. So, yeah, we're talking six months still early on. So, yep. I would just take your time. Don't rush into anything and don't go into debt for this equipment. Save up and pay cash.

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George is up next in New York, New Jersey. George, welcome to the show.

>> Are you with us? >> Uh, thank you. Thank you. Sorry about that. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Oh, yes. >> What's going on? >> How's it going, guys? Rocking and rolling. Um, first off, you guys are awesome. Uh I've been working with you all for maybe like uh going on two years about to be debtree this year and everything like that working with the Smart Investor Pro in Maryland. So >> Oh, good. Amazing.

>> Um I had a quick question for you. Um hopefully uh this is your area expertise. If not, then hopefully you can guide me in the right direction. I um before I was working with you all, I you know I was ignorant to a lot of stuff. So, I had um got mixed up back in

maybe 2016 with a um a guy from my gym. Uh long

story short, uh he's he was running an LLC supposedly and um I was investing

into a highinterest savings account.

>> Um so basically I got scammed. Long story short, he got me for 38 grand.

>> Oh no.

>> And then I hired lawyers lawyers and everything like that. Um, so I all in all I was out maybe like 40 about 45 grand. >> Oh my gosh, George. Awful. I'm so >> sorry. Was it like a Ponzi scheme kind of thing or like a like >> or he would take your money and invest, you know, put it somewhere else thinking he would make a difference and then he ended up not and lost all your money.

>> Exactly. >> Oh man. >> So I um, you know, again, this is before I met you guys. I wish I would have met you guys sooner, but um, that's done.

So, it's kind of a thorn in my side because I'm trying to figure out whether I should continue going after him because um I already went to court. We already got the judgment. He didn't show up and everything like that. Um you know, he got served and everything.

But the thing is, you know, I had to learn about the law because the judgment is just basically for people right now because he got rid of all the Yeah, exactly. >> If he doesn't have assets, >> he got rid of all >> doesn't have income you can garnish.

>> Basically, that's basically what what I want to do. You say you've been chasing for 4 years. Who who has actually been the person trying to track him down and >> and get him to pay? >> Uh uh I hired a um a debt collection

company and then um at first it was you know it was free and everything like that because uh you know they would you know they get paid I get paid kind of kind of deal. So then after maybe like a year or two, then they want they asked me if I wanted to like increase the some some

kind of excuse they gave me and it was like another two grand or whatever I think to to push stuff forward because this is during the pandemic. >> Yeah. >> So to push like paperwork for it and so that added to the money that I'm out and I wanted to see if you guys think I should just count it as a loss or just you know cuz without assets, you know, now that I know that it's just >> Yeah, that's my fear. You spent 25 grand chasing this guy down and then it turns out you don't get a dime from him.

Well, now you just lost another 25 grand. So, it may be time to emotionally write this off and call it a stupid tax and move on. >> Yeah. >> If it's been four years, I mean, this is this is weighing on you.

It's living rentree in your head. And I think it's time to move on. >> Oh, yeah. >> People do all kinds of dumb moves and lose 40 grand.

You know, I went 40 grand in consumer debt back in the day.

>> Got you. Okay, I figured that.

>> I'm so sorry, man. >> Sorry, George. >> I'm like like when I I'm like a dog who's like, I want to I want to get this >> you on justice, right? >> I want to go full John Wick, man. You know, but at some point >> and it was $38,000, you know? It's not $3,800. Like that's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. But the crazy thing is is I do think once you emotionally

>> kind of just get over it, right? You detach and you're like, "Okay, I am moving on." Um, you start to really

really see what you can do and what you have the power to do as you're experiencing now on baby step two, George. Like you're getting yourself out of debt. Like that money will come back, right? Like you will be able to turn all this around, but it's just emotionally having just to to let it go, which sucks.

Sorry you're dealing with that. That makes sense. >> Maybe this will get you debt free faster. If you allocate all of your energy and focus and resources towards that, I think you'll feel a whole lot better and it'll be a fun story you share with your kids one day when you're a multi-millionaire.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah.

>> Best of luck, my friend. That's brutal, Rachel. That reminds me when I got scammed long ago, fraud happened. People opened up AT&T accounts, Verizon accounts under my name, social security number, past address. horrible.

>> Racked up 1,700 bucks on both accounts, never paid a dime. And so I had to deal with that. And luckily I had Xander ID theft. And so they stepped in and helped clean this mess up. But I found who the people were cuz I was a sleuth.

>> You found who it was? Like the individuals? >> Yeah. And I really wanted to go full, you know, wishbone on the case and go, I'm going to investigate. I'm going to bring them to justice. And then I just I'm like, what am I doing? What am I doing? >> Just Nancy Drew. >> I don't know how dangerous these women are. >> Yeah. Was it women? >> It was two women. >> No way. still have their names >> here like in America. >> They were in Boston in the Boston area.

I lived in Tennessee at the time, but they opened these accounts up in Boston. So, >> George. >> Yeah, there you go. I'm not going to I'm going to I'll leave that for future investigations, but >> goodness gracious. It's hard. It's a hard pill to swallow when it happens.

All right, Dominic is in South Bend up next. Dominic, welcome to the show.

>> Thank you. >> What's going on? So, I've heard you guys speak about zero credit score and buying

houses with manual underwriting.

>> I purchased a home years before hearing about you. So, having a zero credit score when buying my next one >> won't be an option.

>> Sure. You have a credit score now due to your mortgage payment, >> correct? Is that alone going to be enough to maintain a good enough score or what's the >> Have you made your mortgage payments on time? >> Yeah, that's >> great. you likely have a a great score.

>> So, there's no need to open up new credit accounts and credit cards to try to increase it. When you go to get another mortgage, they're just going to look at yours and go, "Okay, is your debt to income ratio good? Do you have a history of on-time payments?" And they'll grant you that. So, unless you have you checked your credit score, is it in the tank or is it solid?

>> No, it's solid. I just I wasn't sure if just a mortgage alone would be enough in the future. >> Yes. >> Or if they needed more history.

No, you'll be good. And if you ever have questions about it, you can always contact, you know, Church Hill Mortgage and they can walk you through what they actually look for, but you're this the score is the score. That's what they're looking for. And so they're not going to say, "Well, you don't have enough types of debt." That's all factored into your score.

And so if your score is solid, you're going to be fine.

>> Okay. >> Until you'll go back through that process. But you're on you're on the path, man. Good for you. How long until you pay off the house?

I don't think I'll pay it off.

>> Not with that attitude, Dominic. What's left in the morning? >> My first home. I still owe

>> 160 on it. >> Okay. >> Cuz you're saying you'll probably move homes, move houses before you paid it off. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know that's a but it's a good question because we do talk about people not having to worship at the altar of you know the credit the the FICO score the credit score because you can actually get a house called you know through manual underwriting but if you have a bad credit score and you go and apply for a mortgage they're going to pull your credit score regardless that will hurt you. Yes, if you have one that's undetermined then you can do manual underwriting.

If you have a bad credit score when you go and get a mortgage and as you're getting out of debt, George, for a lot of people, consumer debt, >> your score will lower as you, you know what I mean? Like as you're starting to get out, >> that's how stupid the credit score game is. You're like, "Wait, I'm doing good things. I'm knocking out debt." And they're like, "Yeah, but we don't like that." >> I know.

>> We'd rather you keep it around, pay it perfectly. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, on baby step 2, you guys, if you're paying off your debt and then you try to go and get a mortgage, which is not part of the, you know, that's baby step 3B, but if you try to do it earlier and they pull your credit score, it may not be great because you're paying off your debt, your consumer debt.

>> But very few people, and here's they always go, "Well, what about once I'm out of debt?" I'm like, "Well, then you still need to save up your emergency fund and then still save up your down payment." And so, you're talking potentially years of not having a score, which is fine. So, your credit score will not be in the tank as long as you actually close all accounts. Yes. Yes, if you still have any accounts open or you still have a credit card open, that will show up on your credit report and keep your credit score alive.

So, make sure when you pull that credit report, nothing is active. And then 6 to 12 months later, there's no real exact timeline, but that's what I've experienced and many that I've talked to. Your credit score just becomes indeterminable. It doesn't actually go to zero.

>> Yeah. It's not actually technically a zero credit score. >> We just like to say that because it sounds cool. >> That's fun.

>> Z What's your credit score?

>> Zero. I don't have one. >> That's the real flex. And that's honestly how they operated back in the day, like in our parents' day.

The credit score has only existed since the '9s. So before then, you're like, "Well, how do people get homes?" Well, they looked at your actual tax return. You had a relationship with the bank, >> and they looked at your income and savings. I went, "Okay, >> your other bills, if you pay on time, what, you know, if you're a trustworthy um borrower that they can lend money to, like they looked at you as a person, which is what manual underwriting does anyway, >> instead of the computers going, "Good credit score, give them a loan." And so, it's really not that difficult.

I've done it myself. I'm alive to tell the tale.

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Well, you guys asked and we listened.

The Live Like No one Else Cruise is back by popular demand. This is your moment to celebrate your debt freedom with Dave Ramsey and all of us Ramsay personalities in the Western Caribbean.

Worst places to be right about now.

>> And look what I brought today. Didn't even mean to. >> Live like no one else tumbler.

>> This is the tumbler we all got from the cruise. >> Yes. So tropical. >> Huge. >> Take me back. >> I know. Look at all these leaves. See?

>> So, that was like a swag drop, I think we did in some of the rooms. All the rooms. >> I know. You get fun surprises on this cruise, guys. >> So much swag. >> So great. >> So, come share your story with Dave.

Swap jokes with me. Sing karaoke with Jade. I don't know what Rachel's going to be doing. Maybe shopping.

>> Shop with Rachel at some of the cruise.

>> Get some accutra and souvenirs.

>> And if this is for a specific person, this is not for everyone. It's for people who are on baby step four or higher. meaning you've paid off your debt. You have the emergency fund. We want to celebrate that progress. Join us March 14th through the 21st, 2027.

You've got time to budget and save. You can get your deposit locked in. And right now, you can save up to 300 bucks this week only when you book by February 1st. Cabins are limited and you can lock in your spot with a $600 deposit. Click the link in the show notes or go to ramiesolutions.com/events if you want to learn more. and George.

Um, the cruisers that went back last

year, they got this email about a month ago. >> We gave them first dibs. >> There is some, uh, spots filling up because a lot of them are coming back, which is so fun. So, you need to, yes, if you want your cabin, do it. And a lot of people didn't know we did the cruise until after. They're like, I wish we had known. I wish we had known. So, you know, now you know it's happening. >> If you've heard our voice, you know.

There we go. Join us. It's going to be a good time. Tommy is in Colorado up next.

Tommy, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you guys. How are you guys doing? >> We're doing great. What's your question today? >> Hey, so I me and my wife just bought a

house um in August. And turns out that

the HOA has about a million dollars in deferred maintenance. Their solution is to do a $5,000 special assessment and then hopefully increase dues going forward. >> Mhm. We're wondering if it's a good idea to stay or maybe try and cut our losses and get out of this situation.

>> Wow, that's pretty aggressive over a onetime $5,000 fee. What do you know that we don't?

>> Um the couple things is um the total amount to get back to zero would be a $20,000 fee.

>> Okay. So, there might be more assessments in the future.

>> There might be more in the future. And then we live in a high fire zone, high fire danger community in 50-year-old houses. We lost our HOA coverage this

year and we are being covered by excess insurance and we're expecting that to probably go up to almost 75 cents of

every dollar that comes and produce.

>> Was this disclosed to you, Tommy, when you guys bought because you just when did you say you bought? Just uh like in August, what' you say?

>> In in August. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um there was nothing to disclose. Um, at

best we maybe could have dug into the documents and found it, but the HOA is not in very good shape. >> Well, do you like where you live right now aside from these fees?

>> Um, we really like the house. Um, but

yeah, we're just concerned about the money. Um, it was mentioned that the HOA

if this does not pass, which it's a community vote, we could head towards bankruptcy as a community.

>> Yikes.

Okay. What's the HO fee now monthly and what will it go up to?

>> 300 $340 a month. Um and then there's no

consensus about the raises would be um

>> the documents are extremely limited uh to 3% a year, but that's not enough to keep up. >> Okay. Well, the bad news is you got to pay this 5,000 assessment no matter what. Even if you sell, it's going to come out. And so you're not going to get out of that. So, what you're really asking is, is it worth it to live here long term knowing it's going to get more expensive to live here?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. What's the uh what's your mortgage payment percentage-wise to the income you guys bring home?

>> Um just shy of 30%.

>> Just shy. Okay. Okay. And if and because these dues, you know, the HOA and insurance and all that, we kind of wrap into our 25% rule of of what your percentage should be from a mortgage standpoint to income.

Um, so I'm wondering as these start to

notch up, if you know, if you start to get to be, yeah, over 30%, 35%, I mean,

all of that, then there gets to a point that you can't afford to live there anymore, right? Uh, but I feel like that would take a lot in order for that to to continue to raise.

>> Um, I just factored in just the mortgage. If I were to factor everything else in, it would be closer to 40% currently with the HOA

insurance. >> Is there is there room for your incomes to grow?

>> There is. >> Okay. I would hold off personally. I don't think this is like we got to get out right now.

>> Uh, I would hold off since you enjoy where you live. This is just a part of living in society, unfortunately. And HOAs get a lot of hate for a valid reason. And assessments are are part of the annoyance.

You're like, I already pay so much to live here. Now you're just going to throw five. It's like the mafia. It's like, give us five grand or else.

And you have no way out of it. And so long term, if you see the writing on the wall, if three years from now your income hasn't gone up, and yet all of your dues keep going up, the assessments keep showing up, that could be a sign, hey, it's time to move.

The sooner you sell, the more of a loss you're going to take >> because you got to pay realtor fees and you probably don't have much appreciation at this point. So, this could be a way more than a $5,000 loss just to get out.

>> Yeah. Now, we were estimating 25,000 loss to get out. >> Yeah. So, I I don't want to, you know, eat 25 grand to save five. And I think you're going to know a lot in 12 months,

right? After after a year, I just I think that a lot will kind of shake out and you guys will kind of see where you're at. And then to your point, George, you could look up, you know, and say, "Okay, let's stick it out for another year. Let's see where our incomes are at that point. See what the HOA is doing, you know, and you can make you can make the call, yeah, in three years or so." But I probably wouldn't go any less than three just because of everything attached to it feewise.

>> And if you want to live in a non-HOA community, you're going to have to go probably further out and it may not be a home that you love. And so this is a trade-off of living where you want to live. HOAs are everywhere. All right, Mark is in Sacramento up next. Mark, welcome to the show.

>> How can we help?

>> Yeah. Um I told your screener, uh I'm

just about I'll be 63 next month and I

got a whole term uh whole life

insurance. >> Okay. that I've been paying into.

>> Oh god. Since before I was 30.

>> Oh wow. You made someone very wealthy.

>> Well, my brother's the one that signed me up for it. That hurts even more business anymore.

>> Yeah. So So my cash value is up well over $40,000.

The policy itself only pays out 160.

>> Yeah. >> And I'm married. My wife is 64. You

know, she's obviously the beneficiary.

And from what I understand from listening to your show that should I pass away, my

wife will get the 160 and and all the cash value is just >> goes to the insurance company. >> Yeah. It's horrible. >> Yeah.

In most policies, that's how it's structured, which is insane. I'm with you. Um, at 63, you might have a hard time getting term life in place now, but it's it's worth looking into and to see, you know, it's going to be expensive, but your whole life policy is also very expensive. What are you paying per month?

>> Oh god, it it went up this year like over 200 bucks.

year. >> Oh my goodness. How much do you guys have in retirement? Are you self-insured to where if you didn't have this policy in place, your wife would be okay?

>> That's something.

Me and my wife uh not including our house are at about 1.2 million.

>> Okay. You might be at a spot and you can consult with a you know financial adviser to see, hey, is this worth keeping around? Because if you just put 1,700 bucks in a savings account, you might be better off than continuing to pay this with 160k payout.

>> Well, that's what I'm you know. Or or

what about taking out the cash value?

>> Yeah, I mean that's another option. you you surrender the policy, take the cash value, invest that plus your 1,700 bucks a month, you'll >> probably be better off. >> You'll get to 160 pretty fast as long as you're still with us. And I hope you are.

>> Well, okay, that's my question. Um >> Mhm. >> I would run the numbers. This might be something you keep around for now until you're very sure that if something were to happen, you are self-insured. But 1.2 2 million based on your expenses, you might go, "Yeah, we can easily drop this and get this money out of here with what we already have." Exactly.

>> 1,700 bucks on top of your 40k. That'll add up fast, my friend. And I'm so sorry that your brother hosed you into this. I don't know what your relationship is like. >> 30 years ago. 30 years ago.

>> It's all water under the bridge.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, just because it's 2026 now doesn't mean 2025's ideas all go away. Some things

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Anna is up next in Seattle. Anna, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you. >> What's going on?

Okay. So, I bought a house in August.

Um, briefly, I'm a divorced single mom. I have two kids. I basically used my divorce settlement to buy this house. I put a big down payment. Um, and even now, I am struggling with um having a

pretty high um uh mortgage payment with

my with my income. Um, and I don't think

it's sustainable. And I'm sort of going back and forth on, you know, what is it

the best decision? If it wasn't, you know, it's done now, but what could I do to kind of help myself move forward? Um, I bought a house and I thought I would have some money left over, but in I had to pay off my car in escrow, and that added an extra like $18,000 in order for me to get my debt to income ratio low enough to be approved. So, >> that increased the amount of mortgage you needed, which increased the payment.

Mhm. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, >> tell us the ratios. What is your mortgage payment and what is your after tax monthly income? >> So, my mortgage is um 38.80. Excuse me.

Just I don't know 30 38.90. Let's say

that. That includes all of the homeowners insurance and um insurance and uh property tax. So, they they put it in there. >> So, um yeah. So 30 38 3,800. Um

and my net pay is $6,225

a month. >> Oh yeah. So it's >> I make I mean I I make 103,000

but I live in Seattle and it's a very expensive. >> So we're talking 2/3 of your takehome is going toward the mortgage >> and that's not leaving a whole lot left to live and put food on the table let alone accomplish any financial goals.

Are you getting child support at all, Anna? >> Yeah, I get I get um I get $850 a month

for two kids.

>> Okay. >> And that's on top of your 6,200.

>> Yeah, that's on top.

>> All right, that helps a little. >> So, yeah, we can count that. Yeah, we kind of count all income coming even in even if it is child support or alimony.

>> Um Okay. >> So, >> that gets you to like 55%. Now, does that include >> the take-home pay? Are you Do you have any deductions coming out like health care premiums, 401k?

>> Um I I pay my health care I my kids

healthcare are on their dad's and I pay I have to help pay for that. Um mine my deductions are just the typical t taxes just tax stuff. Okay. >> And a 401 I do I do contribute to 401k.

>> How much what percent?

>> Um I believe I I I think I meet my

company match. I think it's four%.

>> Okay. So, you're likely investing if you make 100K, we're talking four grand.

>> And so, you wouldn't include that for the 25% parameter, which also helps your number. So, now we're down to like 50ish%, which is not great, but at least

we're kind of we can see the forest from the trees here. Is there room for your income to grow?

>> Um, there's a little bit. Um, I mean I

don't I wouldn't say anytime soon.

>> Okay. >> No.

>> But when did you buy this house? >> Like the line of work I'm in I bought in August. >> Okay. It's only been half a year.

>> Yeah. It's similar to to our last caller. Six months. Because there's not going to be a ton of equity. already I

mean it's uh I I already well I mean I

don't know how accurate you know looking at red fin etc is but I mean there is there is already equity in the house you know >> what would you get if you sold it after >> after you know net of fees and all that

>> I mean I don't I don't I haven't calculated the fees but I bought it for

uh 730 and it's I mean it says it's

worth between 820 and 9 something. Yeah, I >> I'd be shocked in six months for one 15 grand. >> Zillow's always Zillow and Redfin, they're not always accurate. I know.

I know. So, what you could do, Anna, just to gather information as you're thinking about this because it is a big enough um question financially for you >> is to get a realtor and have them just pull some comps in the area and just see. I mean, you know, maybe it's gone up a little bit. Um, I mean, I don't know, but after you factor in maybe a little bit of equity, but then all the fees and the realer fees and all that when you sell the commissions, like once you factor it all in, you you may end up losing money if you end up selling, right?

went through something like that and having kids, you want a place to land.

You want something that you're like, "Okay, this is our home. We're building this new life, right?" And so like I could see it almost being an emotional

decision and not always factoring in like, okay, what is this actually going to feel like in real life? So, I don't fault you for that. It makes sense, but we also want to get you into a place where you can start building walls and you have some breathing room cuz, you know, going through a divorce, I'm like, that's that's in of itself extremely stressful. >> And then you put on top of a financial strain, which so many single moms, they I mean, you were in the boat with so many people.

Um, >> which is so it's so hard, so heartbreaking having to raise these two kids too along with everything.

>> Um, I mean, I I'm working on it. I

I mean, a big part of why I got divorced

was because of my financial incompetence, >> because of yours. >> Um, because of mine.

>> So, what what went on there? Just um

just not keeping up with details, spending whatever you want. Like, what does that look like? >> Yeah. like hidden like hidden debt. Um you know I'm working on it. I'm actually in a like a DA program which is helping >> good. >> Um so I I I was completely out of debt

and now I have I have debt again. Um

home cost or you know you know obviously

because I I kind of living outside my means but I do I do know some places I can tighten. I do have kind of a side job. I teach classes and I can more.

>> Um >> have you cut off all access to debt?

Have you frozen your credit? Yeah, I don't I don't use my I don't use my credit cards. I mean, the other question I had is I do own my car and my car is worth, I'd say, $18,000, but I could easily, if feel, you know,

sell it and then get a car that is, you know, combat good for my kids and for me and for commuting, but and you probably

you're not going to free up a down payment and then you're going to downgrade a car and you might have, you know, eight grand, but that doesn't solve that mortgage problem.

>> Yeah. your car is not the issue at this point. >> So, I would I would hang on like Rachel said for, you know, 2 years and then see where you're at. Nothing is like you're not going to miss a mortgage payment.

You're just sort of skating by right now in survival mode and it is going to be uncomfortable. And that's where the budget is really going to help you cuz now whatever is left over after that mortgage payment comes out, you have to be very intentional with >> and that's where a budgeting app like every dollar will help. So, I'll we'll make that our gift to you to help you figure all this out. And when you fill out that every dollar budget, you'll list your income for the month, include the child support, and then below will be all of your expenses.

>> Yep. Um Yes. So stay on the line and Christian will pick up. And uh George, I vote that Anna cuts up all of her credit cards tonight.

>> Absolutely. You said you don't use them, but you still have them. I think I think you just cut it off at the source since you know it's an issue, right? Just in general, it's been Just cut it off at the source.

And listen, if you hate it, I know I only >> If you hate it, I promise they'll let you back in. >> You can get another one. >> Yeah. I only have I only have one and I paid I pay a lot off one is all it takes every month.

>> I'll tell you that you can still do some damage. >> I'm not kidding though.

Force yourself to use your money because there is something even if you pay it off every month. There's something about in the moment taking care of groceries, your whatever it is, when you pay it, it's done. There's not a bill coming and it actually factors in psychologically and you end up actually spending less when that's the case. And so I would try it, Anna.

You're you're kind of on this whole new journey. Um this whole new chapter, this whole new life, right? And so >> do something so different. >> You're the kind of person who doesn't swipe the credit card, who uses her own money >> because she doesn't have one, right?

Cuz she cut it up. >> I love it. >> I love that challenge, too. >> I I I should Sorry.

I can I go Let me go back. I I have one credit card I pay off every month. My other credit card I don't use it.

you know, some new things in the house and get some appliances and it had a 0%.

>> Well, I would cut it up, pay it off, and close the account. And I want you to try no debt, Anna. Like, hardcore. And it's extreme.

This is extreme in our world today, but be so hardcore with it and be so extreme and do it for 6 months and see how you feel. Cuz I'm telling you, there is a freedom there. You don't even realize the burden you're carrying. So, if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Ramsey personality Rachel Cruz. We're taking your calls at88255225.

Katie is in South Carolina up next.

Katie, what's going on?

>> Hey, thank you guys so much for taking my call. Um, I hope y'all are well.

>> We are. What's going on with you today?

How can we help? >> So, I mean, I I might sound crazy for saying this, but I just can't shake the feeling that we're charging a little bit too much money. And I guess I'm looking

for a way to justify my guilt or you

know try and figure out how to process you know how fast do we want to grow and how should we scale our company.

>> Okay. So we is this your husband?

>> Yeah. My husband started this business before we got married and I kind of joined him after that. We've been in business for about 11 years.

>> Cool. What kind of business is it?

>> It's a a trucking company. So we we do some hauling. >> Wow. Well, that business has really taken off, hasn't it?

>> Yeah. >> What do you guys uh bring in?

>> Uh so last year we brought in 290,000

sales and then after, you know, paying everyone and expenses, we profited about

120,000 >> and that's as a household. So that's your household income for the year. >> So that's not the household income. Most of that stayed in the business. Um you that that was just what the business profited. We paid ourselves about 50,000. Oh wow. And that's together.

That's total that came to you guys. Wow.

All right. >> Yep. Correct. >> So where did this price hike come into play and why?

>> Yeah. So we our pricing is very simple.

We just match what the competition is around us. We don't have a lot of competitors. Um and you know, we're one

of the few people that do our specific type of hauling in our area. Um, so we

really have just always kind of matched what market price is, but I'm kind of looking at a case by case, job by job,

and realizing that the range of profit we have on each job is is super wide. So

sometimes it's, you know, a small amount of profit, but a lot of the time it's quite large. Um, so I'm just kind of,

you know, when I brought up the idea of restructuring how we do our pricing and,

you know, taking it from super simple to trying to be a little bit more specific so we can afford to help some people that usually say, "Oh, no, you're too expensive." Well, you know, if we were willing to make 40% profit on that job instead of 60, maybe that person would have said yes. Um, >> do you feel like you need more business?

Do you feel like you need more business? Well, so our work is very seasonal. The demand in season is so high, we can't keep up with it, but then during the off season, it's not really a thing. Um, so

we, you know, we obviously slow down a lot. And that's we're blessed that, you know, able to work very full-time, overtime, 6 months out of the year is enough for us to live off of. And then the rest of the time we can work on side gigs or spending more time with family, which is great. Um, so yes and no. We

definitely don't need more work. We can't handle it in the summer, but the idea is obviously to grow, so we can do even more during the summer, if that makes sense. >> Got it. So, is there a moral profit

margin in your mind that it's like anything above this, it's immoral to charge? >> Well, I don't have a specific number.

It's more the concept of, you know, is it is that even a valid question?

>> Well, I mean, if you look at prices, is his reasoning, hey, everything's gone up. Everything costs us more. fuel, insurance, maintenance, tires, labor, permits, like that's all gone up. And so it's not like he's tripling the cost just for fun. >> And you guys are bringing home 50 grand as a household. >> And it's a specific type of service that you said. There's not a lot of competition and high demand.

>> Yeah. I mean, >> and not a lot of supply, which means you can charge more. And it's not like you're hurting anybody. They're happily paying you for this service that they can't do themselves.

>> Yes. the more I say it out loud, the know the more I know I'm kind of making my husband sound like a superstar in business. But, uh, you know, I just always back to I always go back to the few cases where people have asked us for help and, you know, we give them our price and they're like, "Oh, you know, that's way over budget." And in my head, I'm saying, "I really know I could have helped this person out. I could have met their needs." >> Sure.

>> Yeah, I hear you. So I wonder if because

you know even here at Ramsay for instance like we give stuff away a lot whether it's tickets to a live event books you know um and some stuff it's like very nice coaching you know one-on-one coaching that we'll pay for people's sessions like yeah >> we will um have life with an open hands

business-wise but we're only able to do that because we are making a profit on the other end that is feeding a thousand people that work here and their families and all of it right so so there there is room to be if there is room to be generous I would talk to your husband about that and say hey you know and I hate to this sounds so like legalistic and I don't mean to be this like for formulaic about it but I don't know K I'm just thinking like four different situations you know throughout the summer when you guys are in high demand and people like we need you but I can't afford that pricing you know are there four times that you can say and you guys agree on that like hey I just feel something in my spirit that I'm supposed that I'm supposed to extend some grace to them and help them.

>> Yeah.

the practice of doing that when you feel led, but it's not changing the whole structure of the company because I don't feel like you guys are >> doing something wrong or immoral to George's point. And okay, >> you know, you're you know, you you guys are bringing home 50k a year out of this. >> We're far from being greedy here. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's not like you're making, you know, 5 million and you're like, "Oh my gosh, I feel like we're overcharging everyone." >> Most of your customers are making more than you. And so that's the other thing to think about here is you guys also need to put food on the table and you have financial goals and there's nothing wrong or immoral about making money.

Have you screwed anyone over? Have you lied? Have you cheated? >> Right.

No. Yeah.

>> And so it's okay to say this is what our service is worth and we're going to charge it. And if you can't afford it, that's not a slight on them. It's just saying hey there's you need to go somewhere else that you can afford.

>> And so >> I can't I can't get everything that I want. There's things that I can't afford and I don't expect that business to go, well, can you just bring the budget down for me? >> This is not a charity. If you want to start a charity, go for it.

You can open a nonprofit and do all kinds of charitable giving. >> Yeah. But I wonder could she kind of like scratch the itch a little bit within it, right?

>> Yeah. I mean, any industry, Katie, there's going to be people that can't afford, you know what I mean? I'm like, I was just think about I don't know. That's why I thought social media. I'm like, people that, you know, need help with social media. There's people that do that as a job that that charge insane

money because they're really good at it or people that are starting out and don't charge much. And I, you know, you couldn't afford, you know, the highends.

That's okay. It's a service they provide. And just because they charge a lot, >> you know, doesn't make them a bad person. It means they're probably really good at their job or they found this niche area of life, which is what you guys have done. So, >> so nothing bad, but I would say lean into when you can. Um, and it's not the

whole business model, but if there's moments to say, "Hey, I I want to be generous in this instance." You and your husband get on the same page with that. And maybe that'll kind of help free up your spirit some in that generosity.

>> Think about it this way. If you guys charge more and you make more, that gives you the freedom to be more generous when the time comes without it being a loss for you. And so I I think there's nothing wrong with that. And listen, if you charge too much, you'll go out of business eventually.

And so you'll know when the price is right, when you have the right amount of supply and demand happening. And so I'm I don't think anyone's right or wrong here. I think we need to meet in the middle and understand you want to be generous and he needs to pay the bills.

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Matthew is in Denver. Up next, Matthew,

welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. How are y'all doing this afternoon? >> We're doing great. How can Rachel and I help? >> Um, so I just uh I was going to get some advice. Um, I was my wife and I are looking uh taking a $100,000 loan from

my father uh to buy an 8-unit rental property. Um, and I just kind of wanted to see what you guys thought um based on the details of the property and everything else.

>> Uh, yeah, let's hear it because not not

uh super excited about this as of now

taking out a loan but >> from your father-in-law but um yeah, give me your your numbers. What are you thinking? Okay. So, uh I got a $900,000 property

um at 3% interest owner finance. Um and

so it's going to be $100,000 of my money, $100,000 loan from my dad. And

then um the owner is willing to do $100,000 of inind money is what she calls it. Um and that uh includes

repairs and improvements on the property uh for a period of 10 years. Um, and

then she's also willing to mentor my wife and I uh for two years uh the first two years that we own the home. And then at the end of the 10 years, it's going to be a a balloon payment. And I know this kind of goes against a lot of >> the Dave Ramsey uh uh I guess principles. But I wanted to see what you guys thought because I I think it might be a good opportunity for us to >> kind of get a business and and start moving that way.

>> Do you guys own a home currently? A primary home?

currently and we have uh no debts or payments at all besides that house.

>> Oh, besides the house, what's left on that mortgage? >> Uh 190,000.

>> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh we make around 135,000. Uh and

there's a lot of room for growth there.

>> Cool. How did this idea come up of the eight unit and then your dad loaning you the money? Who brought it up? Um, so we

met this woman um at a graduation um and

we we had owned a a single family home investment property and we got to talking to her and she and we I kind of told her that we're we're real estate investors and she's like, "Oh, well, I got a deal for you. My husband and I are trying to uh get out of this property because her husband is uh is pretty sick

and um they're just trying to move down to Arizona. And um so that's kind of how

this got brought up. And then she is the one that's kind of structured this deal.

>> Sounds like it. >> So she knows your dad and was like, "Well, if he ponies up 100, you pony up 100, we can make this work." >> Um >> and I'll mentor you for two years from

Arizona.

Yeah, she's kind of curtail related to my wife. U not by blood or anything, but

uh >> Matthew, I just see 85 ways this could go sideways.

>> It's not It's not worth it. It's not. I mean, from the way the loan structured with the balloon happening in 10 years,

um, all this borrowing from family, uh,

going into a $900,000 investment property, um, that you don't have the money for, you got I mean, do how much y'all have saved? How much cash do do you and your wife have?

>> Um, so I have $100,000 for the down and

then we have about $250,000 in the markets right now. >> Okay. Why don't you c Why do you have to borrow money from your dad? Take your money out if you're going to do the deal. I wouldn't do the deal, but don't don't borrow money from your dad. You have $350,000.

>> Okay, got it. And I I don't know. I guess my thought is if I could keep it in the markets and make 10%. Whereas I could pay my dad back uh 10% on the money that he loans the company.

>> I mean, you're needing the stars to align with this. You need eight tenants who pay on time with no risk there. You need to pay dad back. You need to make money in the markets. There are so many variables here that could go wrong. And >> if all this just tanks, you're screwed, >> right? If the market tanks, you're screwed. >> Yeah. >> You can't find renters, you're screwed. If the market goes down, >> as Dave always says, if if Trump burps and the market, you know, goes down.

>> He was like, "We're going to invade Greenland, the stock market got spooked." >> That's right. Yeah. And so you just don't know. >> I mean, yeah. >> But here here's the parameters that are under house, Matthew. Yeah. The underlying principles are we never recommend you buy investment property until your primary home is paid off.

Number two, we never recommend you borrow to invest in a rental property.

Always recommend paying cash. And number three, we always tell people never borrow money from family.

>> And so there's a lot of principles here that are being violated all for the sake of a quote unquote good opportunity.

>> And can I I'm going to say this, Matthew, and I don't want it to be rude, but you guys had one single residential

investment property. Correct. you and your wife. >> That is correct. >> And you tell this lady that you're you're you're real estate investors.

Um which I guess technically you are.

You have one investment property. And I think she saw ding ding ding. Here's my ticket out. I got to get out of this horrible situation I'm in cuz my husband's sick.

And again, I don't think it's like ill will on her end. I just think she thought, "Oh my gosh, here's a guy who's probably doing all these like deals that you see on TikTok and he's he's got eight VBOs and here, you know what I mean? And he'll do it. I bet I bet I bet I could offer him this and we'll we'll structure the loan where it works for him so I can get out of here." That's what she saw.

I mean, honestly, she didn't list it.

to some, you know, um, investment firm that has, you know, 18 different investors around the country that go and buy property. You know what I Like, no, no, no. She found you and your wife and you thought you hit the hit a great deal and you hit a horrible deal. Not good.

Not good. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you.

I appreciate the advice. I really do. >> Not what you wanted to hear. I know.

But >> sorry, Matthew. So, listen. What you and your wife did though with I would pay off your house, but but I I'm all about I think I think having investment properties is amazing. My husband and I do.

My I mean I think it's I think it is great. You just have to start slow. Like the first one Winston and I got this was gosh probably 10 years ago. It was a short sale condo in this like kind of like sketchy part of Nashville, but it's what we did.

But we got a deal. We saved up, you know, we we bought it for really not a lot. Had to go do a a lot of work in it.

years later when Nashville was on and it was amazing. I was like this is great, right? Like you have to start slow.

Start small. Don't start with a millionoll 8 unit property cuz you're about to take on all those people. Like that's going to be a huge headache. Like get some things under your belt. Start small and then start to work your way up, which is not as flashy, not as exciting, but it is it is peace. That is

a peaceful way to do this and not create chaos cuz you guys are setting yourself up from chaos and maybe to ruin a relationship with your dad if this goes bad, too. I've rarely seen it where they go, "Yeah, I borrowed money from dad. It worked out perfectly. Paid him back and he was happy.

I was happy." >> Usually it becomes, "Well, dad wants a piece of the pie now. He wants his money back cuz he needs to retire, >> which means I need to sell the property. Oh, and he wants appreciation and so he wants that too on top of his 100,000 on top of interest." And it just always ruins >> Yeah.

There's just a there's a lot a lot of things. So, I would I would hold off and just go slow and >> and it's not exciting. It's not exciting, but it's worth it. >> What is the 250 invested for? What is that earmarked for?

>> Um, what do you what exactly do you mean by like what am I saving that for?

>> Yeah, you said you had 250,000 in the markets. I'm guessing that's non a retirement just in a brokerage account.

>> Uh, yeah. So, it's a mix of uh IRA and

then uh just a personal brokerage account and that's just uh saving for retirement is kind of uh what I've been doing and kind of learning to trade it on my own and with the help from a financial investor and stuff. So, >> okay. >> I was going to say if you have liquid money that is really earmarked for nothing and you want to take it and throw it at the house, the non-retirement portion, you could do that and speed up the process, free up a mortgage payment and then you can stack cash fast. >> And you guys are amazing savers.

So then, yeah, stack up some cash and get 300 grand here, you know, like save that over the next five years or whatever your income is and then go buy a rental property with cash and that's it. You know what I mean? Like you can you can do this slow walk in it, but do it in the right order. Pay off the house.

Uh if you have the money, I would pay off your primary home. And >> the key is stay away from this is reducing risk. And right now we're just adding more and more and more risk. and your first real investment property to be a $900,000 8 unit just feels like we're biting off a lot here >> for the purposes of helping this woman move right >> with her ailing husband.

>> Yeah. I mean, eight different families, eight different situation. I mean, that's a part-time job right there of what you just signed up for as a landlord. So, there's not passive income.

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We are headed to Detroit next to talk to Caitlyn. What's going on, Caitlyn?

>> Hi. How are you guys? I grew up listening to you guys. So, it's amazing I'm here. >> That's fantastic. How old are you now?

You grew up I mean, this is a long time.

>> Yeah. My dad used to have you guys on the radio. I used to do the um you know,

putting every dollar in the individual envelope, >> but I'm 24.

>> So, nice. Fantastic. >> So, great. Well, thanks for calling in.

>> Yeah, of course. So, my question is, I just graduated with my masters. It took me 5 years and I um ended up getting uh

most of it covered with with um volleyball scholarships, but now I have

$50,000 in student loans. And I ended up

getting a job out of college that pays 50,000, which obviously is a lot less.

It's I mean it's more like three grand every month. So, I'm just calling in to kind of see how I should attack that and what I should be doing, you know, in the future to kind of get these loans paid off as soon as possible.

>> Yeah, it's a great question, Caitlyn. Are you living at home or where are you?

What's your living situation?

>> Yeah. So, my living situation, I pay 1,251 for my rent. >> Okay. >> And it doesn't include an utilities. I I just moved in, so I don't know exactly how much my utilities are going to be, but I have it kind of conservative at like, you know, um like a 150 hopefully.

>> Yes. And you said you're bringing home 3,000.

>> Yes, 3,000 every month.

>> 3,000. Do you see your income going up?

I know you just started. Um but I'm just thinking, you know, your your rent is close to 50% of your take-home pay, so it's eating up a lot of your income. So, just to be able to pay these loans off faster, I would want your income up. So, from either either if it's from your primary job, um or you're probably gonna be taking a second job, Caitlyn, I hate to say it. Um but but right now in life,

that's what I would do. And I I whether you're waiting tables or doing whatever you can at night after your job. Um a

few nights a week can make a big difference. >> Yeah. That could be a thousand bucks a month. You can just throw all of that at your student loans.

>> 100%. Yeah. And that's kind of been where I' because I'm very obviously I went to a business school. I'm very like entrepreneur like um kind of minded. But

it's a little hard right now because I feel like I'm just, you know, looking at a million different things to do. And I

I I'm trying to like center myself on what should I actually be focusing on to potentially, you know, start a brand or, you know, bring in some extra cash or something like that.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, your focus right now is just solely knocking out that debt because getting rid of that will give you the flexibility to actually pursue those things and not be a hindrance cuz right now you need that financial foundation of no debt and an emergency fund. Then we can start building toward this business. So, what did you get your masters in?

>> So, I got my masters, it was an MBA, so just in business administration.

>> Okay. And what are you doing right now for work? What kind of work is it?

>> Finance. >> Okay. So, there's probably a lot of room for growth.

>> Yes. >> In the finance world. >> And I'm hoping that NBA pays off, right?

That that that it puts you more marketable. I mean, seriously, though, because some people are getting jobs out of college at 50 grand without an MBA.

>> Yes. And I definitely understand that.

And I I also hope it does as well. I'm I

got my undergrad in marketing, so it was kind of a big switch to go into finance.

So, I was kind of willing to take a lower paying job in order to kind of get my um you know, foot in the door credits

or whatever up. Yeah. Exactly.

>> Gotcha. Yeah. So, I think um yeah, if there is something that you could start on the side that doesn't cost a lot, that's going to bring in more than waiting tables or, you know, delivering you know, food or whatever the whatever the side gig is that you are going to have. If you find a way to make more doing something else, that's great.

we actually do find that you tend to make more in your skill set like if you have a specific skill. Um you know even if it's like helping coach volleyball or not coach but even uh like do personalized um sessions like with girls at the local high school like parents will pay big bucks you know when it comes to sports.

Um, but yeah, I would be getting an extra job or two and I would try to bring in I mean, if you could cut this in half, like right because if it was $1,000 a month that went towards this debt, that's 50 months.

>> That's over four years. >> And we want that cut in half. Like could you bring in two grand a month, right?

Extra beyond your job. Um, and if your primary job, you know, you get a raise maybe in six months or a year, like that extra raise goes straight to pay this debt off. like everything is so tunnel visioned towards paying off this debt cuz just like George said, when you don't have the when you don't have debt and then you have some savings in the bank, that's going to give you so much flexibility in what you get to do in life. I mean, the options and the freedom you have.

>> Okay, that makes sense. Thank you.

>> Do you have any other debt outside of the student loans?

>> Uh, I don't. I only have Well, I do. I have 2,000 for a medical thing that just happened, but I'm kind of waiting right now on the insurance to see if that's going to be covered, but that's about it. >> Okay. No car loan, no credit card debt.

>> Oh, I have I'm leasing a car, but

>> Kaitlin, I thought you said you've been listening. >> Guy, you grew up with us. Caitlyn, >> you should know. >> How many times have you heard Dave say it's the most oper most expensive way to operate a vehicle?

>> I know. >> And he calls it a fleece. It even has its own nickname. >> Yes. >> What car is this? Tell me exactly the make, model, and year of this vehicle.

>> So, it's a Chevy um it's a Chevy LT

2025. And the reason why I leased it was because I was I had my car paid off and everything. And then it completely broke down and it wasn't fixable. It was very old. So, I was kind of in between work at that time and I you know, all my friends were on spring break. I didn't have anybody to take me. There was no Ubers. So, I had to make a very, you know, um, quick call. And that, in my

opinion, felt like the best thing to do because I didn't have any money saved for another car. Um, and Ubers were I mean, like I said, we didn't have Ubers where I was going to school. So, that's like I know I talked to the dealer about potentially, you know, getting um

>> There's no getting out of a lease. I mean, you're going to find someone to take it over or have the full amount in order to buy it out, >> which payment is only it's $400. So, it's it's not good, but it's not, you know, >> that's a lot of money out of your 3,000 take-home pay. I mean, what's the >> And you don't get and you don't get to keep the car at the end, you know.

>> Yeah, that's so No, but this is a good this is a good lesson, Caitlyn, because I want you Well, I I I want you to know

that it wasn't a great decision. Like, do you look at it now and you're like, "Oh man, I probably like if anything, I could have taken a $5,000 loan out from the bank and at least gotten a $5,000 car and paid that off soon, right?" Like, there's there are and again, we wouldn't have endorsed that, but there are other things that you could have done in the situation. And when you get painted, this is true for anyone, into a corner and you feel like this is my only option, that's usually when we make really bad financial decisions.

And some people do that with a car situation, some people do that with a house.

for you to start thinking of like okay I'm not going to be pinned in a corner I'm going to think about options A B C and D and I'm going to look at Okay, here are all my options. It's a bad option, good option, uncomfortable option. Oh, this is a really easy option

in the moment. Probably not great long term. You know, you look at all the benefits. But when you have multiple options in life and you force yourself to have multiple options because there are there always are.

Uh you make better decisions. So, just remember that going forward, Caitlyn, if I was 24, I wish someone had told me that because sometimes I don't make great ones. >> Yeah. >> No, thank you.

That's so nice. Thank you. These are expensive lessons to learn now, but I'm telling you at 24, if you figure this stuff out and you knock out this debt fast, from 26 or 27 onward, you are going to build so much wealth and have the ability to be an entrepreneur. But the problem with entrepreneurs is their risk meter tends to be broken.

And so they're willing to take quote unquote risks for a quote unquote opportunities, which usually means leveraging a whole bunch of debt, hoping it all works out. And unfortunately, we take the calls from the entrepreneurs who say, "My business failed and apparently they still want me to pay back these SBA loans." >> I know >> they don't just forgive them just because the business failed. And so, doing it with less risk is always going to give you the the best ability to survive.

Just steer all that energy in the right direction financially, and you're going to do incredible. But you got to rein that in and keep listening to us and actually >> listen this time. But yeah, >> don't just hear us. Listen, >> you're awesome. Thanks for calling.

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Austin joins us up next in Knoxville.

What's going on Austin?

>> Hey Rachel and George. How are you today? >> Doing great. What's going on with you?

>> Good. >> Living the dream of course.

>> Love to hear it. >> Um so my wife and I um we started the

the Ramsay plan a few years back. Um and just started chipping away at it. um kind of dive into that deficit and we you know we've since had a family um we we we chipped away at it and snowballed our debt and got to baby step number five. And so with the three kids,

they're getting to the point where we're getting a little nervous um because we don't have anything for them saved dedicated just to them. So we were looking at different ways to get the ball rolling. And once you kind of get into that and open those doors, there's a lot of different options. um looking at ESAs, looking at 529s, looking at, you know, Roth IAS, and then even within those, there's different layers for each one of those buckets.

And there's a lot of variables in the equation. So, and everybody has obviously the unsolicited advice because we have three daughters. So, once they see, oh, you you better start saving for college or for weddings and all this stuff.

the fear is, you know, we want to do something, but we don't want to make a decision now that our girls might pay for later on, right? So, um we want to

Um, 9, seven, and five.

>> Okay, nice. >> So, we've got a decent timeline here until college, adulthood, weddings, and so the A1 is college and maybe a car if you're going to help with that. And so, there's a few ways you can invest. I love the 529 plans are a great option for college saving, ESA also, but there's more limitations to that as far as your contributions.

And then you can invest outside of that. And so, you can do that in a brokerage account in your name. That's personally how I like it because you retain control. What scares me about some of these investment accounts for kids is they get control no matter what when they turn, you know, 18 in most states.

And so you give a kid compound growth, it's hundred something thousand. If I'm 18, I'm going to blow that. >> You're like, hey, this is this should be for a down payment for your future home or your wedding and they're like, I'm going to >> I'm buying a Lamborghini, >> right? >> Your girls will probably never do that, Austin.

But to George's point, it's it is Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right.

Uh there is less control when it comes to that. Um, and at 18, yeah, that's a lot to give depending on, you know, how much you have saved. So, yeah. So, the 529 is a great starting point for the for the college fund.

That's what we're that's what my husband and I are doing. Our kids are very similar ages. They're 8, 10, and five or six now. Gosh, eight 10.

>> Time flies. >> Um, so yeah, we do five we have 529s for for each of them.

Um, I think it's even just like a an index fund honestly that we just throw money in each month that we kind of save and it's kind of earmarked kind of for them in the future. So, whatever that looks like um to be able to help them, you know, and and what they need um weddings and yeah, I mean all all that kind of stuff that just gets so expensive and depending on when it hits, you know, it could all be at once too. You never know. So, um so that's kind of what we look at >> on it the the options with the 529.

I know there's a custodial option, right, where we have more control as the parents. um versus them. At the same time, if they don't go into uh secondary education, they want to do something else or they get, you know, full rights to whatever. Um I know there's options there for that money, but if you make, you know, the unqualified withdrawal, we're paying a penalty.

Um there's just there's a disadvantages when we start to look at it on >> Yes, there can be. So, the good thing is it grows taxree, which is great. And then if you get a scholarship and grant, you can actually pull money out with these with >> you pull it against the scholarship.

And on top of that, with the new Secure Act 2.0, you can roll over up to 35 grand into a Roth IRA for them. And so,

there are more options. And I'd rather you have the money and not need it than not have it. And now they're turning to student loans and parent plus loans.

>> Sure, >> that's the reality for most people. They go, "Well, I don't want to invest because what if we don't use it?" And then they don't do anything. And so if I'm you, I'm going to open a 529 plan for each kid and then open a brokerage account in my name like Rachel said and just put money in there and that becomes the future gift money, wedding money, whatever. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Once they've earned income, >> they have earned income then you can open up a Roth IRA in that. Yes. In their name. And um and what's wild is my

Roth, which I I'm trying to think when mom and dad opened that for me. I think I was probably 15. It's when I started working at >> I thought you'd be like four years old. They're like, "Well, Rachel's off." >> No, no, no, no, no.

They they did it the right the legal way. I really did go earn an income. But they um and I think they even helped fund it. I mean, honestly, like because it wasn't a lot of money.

Um but they >> as long as you earn that level, they can fund it.

Yes. Exactly. In it. Um, so yeah, it wasn't a ton and yeah, it was definitely not even seven grand, but what's crazy is starting that at 15 versus my husband started one after we got married and just, you know, just a 10-year period, like the difference in the compound interest. It's pretty wild. So, you could do that later, too, for the girls.

Um, as you're thinking about this, I have a feeling you're going to have a lot of options, but yeah, but you're not a big fan of the ATMA, right, George?

>> No, I just don't like the idea that the kids are going to have control at 18, cuz I just don't know what they're going to turn into. I hope they're wonderful, sweet children and they're gonna be like, "We want to give it to the old folks home, but there's a chance stay below it prodigal son styled." So, I like retaining control personally. So, I would do both 529 plan and the brokerage account really hedges your bets. And it's okay to not be fair.

You know what I mean?

>> Mhm. >> So, it's okay. It's more of a lump sum to start versus a higher percentage or both. >> If you have the money, I mean, if you've got 10 grand just sitting burning a hole in your pocket, you can frontload that 529.

>> And what's wild too, Austin, is you, we did this with our um our smart vest pro, they can do a map. It's not 100% because we don't know the future, but they can look at the rate of which tuition has increased >> and how much money you have in to see and say, okay, you know, are you overfunding it? Are you not? I mean, they can kind of help you balance.

And even Austin, if you guys wanted to underfund it some, right? And you didn't you knew like, okay, we may only have, I don't know, 30 grand in it per kid or whatever.

But to George's point, you have to invest somewhere else the difference just in case they do go to school. But if you're scared they're not going to use it or whatnot, um, you could underfund it a little bit and invest somewhere else and use that money >> and just be prepared to help cash flow.

That's right. You have to go to cash flow or they're working part-time to help pay. They're also working on scholarships and grants. So, it's a great problem to have if all of your kids get full rides and the money sits there and you can change the beneficiary at any time.

>> That's it, too. It can be passed down. So, your girls could even keep that 529 and give it to their girl, right? Their kids crazy about it is like you it can stay in.

>> It grows in perpetuity. >> Yeah. There was one call we took, what was that last week, George, about the the dad. Um, it was a it was a man.

He was like 40 and he had a call. I don't know. It was a call still. It was something like that.

and he ended up saying, "I don't want to cash it out. I'm going to keep it >> for like a generational endowment basically." >> And he did the math and it would pay for like 10 kids collegees like the next generation down because of the growth like which is just wild.

>> Awesome. Like you said lot a lot of options there and that's where it was kind of like a little overwhelming for us. So we wanted to kind of throw out a lifeline to see if anybody had any good >> uh that I keep it simple. I hope we help narrow down your focus to those two things.

One for college, one for non- college. >> And then I throw in the Roth once they start working. That'll be later down the road. >> Get them working.

That 9year-old's uh, you know, might be coming up. These kids these days, they're always doing side hustles. >> Yeah. Taxes on them.

>> They're going to become, you know, worldrenowned YouTubers by 11 years old.

>> My gosh, that's true. >> That's what everyone's fear is. They're like, everyone's going to just be like influencers and YouTubers. No one's going to go to college.

>> So much money. So, it's a real fear cuz I do think college is due for a reckoning where families are waking up going, why would I go to school unless you need to unless you're becoming a, you know, a lawyer, a doctor, a nurse, a teacher, things that require that degree. >> Yeah. >> Otherwise, don't just go to burn some time.

>> I know. >> As much as Rachel loved her college experience. >> No, I did. I know.

again, I don't know where I sit with this. my kid. I'm I'm not at this age where my kids are having to make these decisions right now, but there is something when you're 18 to still be in a structured type environment if you have the money. Again, I'm not saying like like don't go take out crazy student loans and not know exactly what you're doing.

Yes, you want a game plan, but there's something about those years that you're still in a system >> that helps you kind of like stay on track.

>> I know they're still so young. It's just a very expensive way to do it >> if you're going to go into crippling debt. So, always cash flow. You can go watch Borrowed Future uh for free on our YouTube channel. It's a documentary we did on the student loan crisis and higher education. Worth the watch with your kids.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. The number to call is88255225

if you've got a question or you want to join the conversation. Jason is in Phoenix up next. Jason, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Much appreciated. >> Absolutely. What's going on today?

I uh my family and I are working our way

through the baby steps. Um we're on baby step two, but there's a lot of uncertainty in our life uh revolving around two kind of central areas. One,

uh the employer I work for is kind of cutthroat and the assessments are pretty strenuous each year. I do pretty all right, but you know there's always that uncertainty every year. And then two, I

was diagnosed last year with a chronic disease uh that will progress with time.

And um >> I'm sorry.

>> I uh I am my wife is a stay-at-home mom.

Uh we're a family of five. And uh there's just a lot of uncertainty in our life. So I've been trying to think about things things like the rate at which we pay off debt versus the rate at which we can start some other investments besides retirement um slashstart doing the 529

for our kids. And I just wanted your input on how to juggle the baby steps with those year-by-year uncertainties.

>> Wow. Well, I'm so sorry to hear about your diagnosis. Is it something where they can sort of give you a timeline of here's how it will progress? You know, is this life-threatening? Like, is it something you can manage? What does that look like?

>> Um, it's a long-term progression. Um,

it's multiple sclerosis.

Um, >> and so it definitely could be slow, but it also could be, >> but you could live a long full life still. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I could. And medicines are really great these this in this day and age for it.

But, um, it's still an uncertainty there and the background sort of stacked on top of the uncertainty with the employer on a year-by-year basis.

>> Well, I probably wouldn't just because

um I think with the the there's no

guarantee that you're going to lose a job. And if you did lose this one, you'd have to replace it anyways, right? I mean, so there would have to be um you know, income coming in. And so how much

how much debt do you guys have and how much do you make a year?

Uh I make about 170 a year and uh we got

about um 80 grand in student loans.

Okay. >> Um to pay off and then a 266 mortgage.

>> Okay. Um and how long have you been with

the company?

>> Uh almost three years now.

>> Okay. And is it >> And the other thing is that >> Go ahead. >> The other thing is that the company has great health insurance, like one of the best in the country. So, my medicines are incredibly expensive and losing the company would mean losing co-ay assistance and stuff like that.

>> You'd be paying like hundreds and hundreds a month out of pocket just for the medicine. >> Is there something obvious in the assessment coming up, Jason, that you think um that you really could be terminated or is it just this kind of like lingering fear of like, uh, >> it's a ling it's a lingering fear. Um,

>> I uh it's kind of subjective every year based on your supervisor. Uh, my supervisor likes me, but I don't think he assesses me of the highest quality as say the previous supervisor I did. It's just sort of a personal bias.

>> Okay. >> Um, and so I I I don't think I have any

issues to worry about really right now.

But >> yeah, when is the assessment?

>> Um, it comes up Well, it's conducted in

April and May and then I find out the results in July. In July, I find out the results. >> Okay, gotcha. Yeah.

to you know cutting the lifestyle which I'm sure you've done cuz I think you guys have been working on baby step two um you know cutting everything down what cuz you're making a you make a great income and I'm just wondering if you can get this thing paid off. You know, if you guys lived on 80, could you pay this off in a year?

>> Yeah, I was trying to run the math on that. Um I think the most we can squeeze

out of it if you just said like the

groceries, mortgage, and basic bills. Um

I think the most I could squeeze out would be about four about 4K a month.

Uh, okay.

>> Our groceries are bill is a little high.

Well, especially with my diagnosis, I have to eat a pretty good Mediterranean diet. >> Okay. Yeah. >> I can't just live on rice and beans. U because diet is a big issue with the progression of this disease, too. They've learned. >> Okay. >> So, um, >> so this might take a little longer. A year and a half is what we're talking >> for you to knock out the student loans.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Like year and a halfish kind of time frame.

>> Do you guys have any savings right now?

Uh, I mean besides retirement, yeah, I got about seven grand, but I also have some potential lawyer fees coming up dealing with my dad's probate. I'm sort of saving that for just in case.

>> Okay. Yeah. And I'm okay with you having a little bit. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry, man.

Y'all had a rough go.

>> Um, yeah. I would just make it an aggressive goal to get that paid off >> and then to get that emergency fund and then you'll be jumping right back into retirement and kids college. You know, I think a two-year difference isn't going to be massive. I think you guys will be you'll be fine.

Um, and then if something switches with the job or if something does happen in July, that's when I would pause everything, stop paying aggressively on the debt, see if you can find, you know, something new, obviously, because you're going to have to, you know, support your family in some way.

>> No, I was actually in the process of getting term life insurance. And, uh,

thank you so much for asking me this. This is another point. I was in the process of getting term life insurance

uh when the diagnosis came through. So, I was denied. >> Uh but I do I >> But these are two different things. So, you've got long-term disability, which is you had you've not passed away, you just are unable to work and you're still alive.

Do you have that in place through your employer or does they do they offer that? >> No. No, I don't think they offer the disability one. um they do have a life insurance and then I also picked up accidental death because I have to wait 5 years after my diagnosis to circle back around to try to get term life again.

Okay.

>> So, um but no, I I've been thinking a lot about the long-term disability insurance after listening to you guys.

And I just asked the guy who I do insurance with the other week if we could look at that. He hasn't been able to get back to me yet. But I like I look at that as almost even more improbable than ever getting regular term life insurance because you're talking about a long-term thing and this is a something that's chronic, right? So, >> I'm not sure I would qualify for that ever anymore.

>> Yeah. I mean, there there are some guaranteed issue policies. They're just more expensive and it's not going to cover a whole lot. The policies are going to be much smaller the face value.

But there's there there are certain things you can do and I would keep pushing to get any coverage you can >> those five kids and your wife >> protect your family. >> But man, this is one of those this is going to be your your why as to why you're going to become debtree even faster as to why you're going to save like a like a madman to make sure that your family's taken care of. And um man, I hope that this is something that you end up managing and you live a long life

and your family's taken care of and those kids go to college debtree. Um, I'm praying that for you.

>> I appreciate that a lot.

>> Wish me the best on this journey, man. >> You're amazing dad, Jason. >> The fact you're even thinking about this right now in >> the stage that you're in and what what's going on is impressive. So, keep fighting the fight, man. We're rooting for you.

All

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the Ramsay Show question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. If your private student loans are in default, it's time for a plan. Yrefi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans into a low fixed rate payment so you can get back on the baby steps and start making progress. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

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Today's question comes from Natalie in Wyoming. My husband and I do not agree on where money should be saved. I was putting money into a savings account until we got married last year. I have around five months of expenses in that account.

My husband says it's losing value due to inflation and thinks that any money we save should go into gold or crypto. While I understand his logic to to a point, I do feel uncomfortable with it, especially the crypto. My logic is if an emergency happens, we have immediate access to it. I appreciate that he wants to invest for our future and protect our wealth.

>> Oh boy, this is way beyond just where should we put our savings? This is a fundamental disagreement on what is an investment. >> That's true. That's so true. >> Let's separate it. All right. Let's talk about the emergency fund first. Your emergency fund should be liquid and accessible in a savings account and ideally a high yield savings account which helps you at least keep up with inflation. >> Yeah. So, he was right to that point. I agree. Yes. >> You don't want it just sitting in checking or a normal savings account making 0% interest.

>> Yes. So, yeah, I'm right. Yes, he's correct. But then you are also correct that this is savings. This is not an investment. We see this as insurance. So your emergency fund is like insurance.

It's there when you need it. And so to your point that if something comes up, you have to be able to get to it. So yes, you are exactly right. When you put it in something that you can't get to, >> I mean, golly, god forbid, crypto or gold that you're going to have to sell, let alone even just the market, right?

It takes a little bit to get the money out and all of it. So there's something about the ease of that emergency fund being there. But then also we want to invest which is a different category >> that is completely different and clearly he's he's been online too much if he's going we got to put all our money in gold in crypto the US dollar is going to crash or maybe the stock market did you

know 23% last year and everything's actually just fine and so I'm not going to trust the fear-mongerers telling you to put all your money in gold or crypto if you want to use some fun money and he wants to do that on the side that's fine but you need to be investing 15% of your income into legitimate tax advantage age retirement accounts in mutual funds. If you have that as a foundation, a fully funded emergency fund, you're investing 15%.

So, I think we're having very different discussions here and we need to just be clear on what this money is for and where we're going to store it safely.

>> Good question. >> And if you want a great uh high yield savings account, our friends at Fairwinds Credit Union have a really great smart bundle you can check out.

Just go to fairwinds.org/ramsey / Ramsey and you can get their high yield savings account along with their no fee checking and the Ramsay Bee debit card.

Fantastic. Great question. All right, Marissa is in Philadelphia up next. Is it Marissa or Marissa?

>> Uh, it's Marissa. >> Great. Nailed it. First try. What's going on? Um, so my question is, should I slow uh

my family down on baby step two uh to

start putting money towards life insurance for my husband who does work a

high-risisk job um and or for both of us.

>> I have context like that.

>> Yeah. How much debt do you guys have?

Um so our mortgage is just under uh 500

and then we have about uh 44 in school

loans and then we are at about 90 in

other like personal credit.

>> Okay. And when you say you know putting money towards life insurance what have you looked into and what has been the the cost? So, my husband's uh employer

does offer um life insurance, but it's

not nearly enough to, you know, keep me and my uh my current child and future

child who's expected in about two weeks uh a >> congratulations. >> Thank you. Um so, that that's not nearly enough to cover our our debt and to keep me afloat if something happens to him.

>> Yeah. Um I've kind of noodled with um

the the Xander like kind of not really committing to anything just estimates.

>> Um for my husband we're looking at about

uh 70 to 100 a month to take out enough

to cover our 10 month our is it 10 months or 10 years of expenses.

>> Okay. Um >> 10 times your income.

>> Yeah. 10 times the income >> on like a 15 or 20 year term policy.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, and then for me, um, we're

looking at 30 to 50 a month. So, I'm looking at like 150 to, you know, almost 200 a month. Yeah.

>> Um, and like where I'm still working on getting us out of being in the red every month with budgeting and baby step two.

>> Okay. Yeah. Well, life insurance is something I would get. So, I would figure out where where else we can cut in order to make this happen. What's your income? What are you guys bringing in? Um, so together we bring in um about

base 200 a year. He is paid hourly and

it's kind of tricky to like guess. Um,

but he makes about almost double what I bring home. And um, my husband travels for work and I am I work from home but I'm like the stay-at-home >> parent. So like I do all of the the house making. I deal with our our kids.

It's a lot. >> Um, >> how are y'all in the red though, Marissa? Making 200 a year.

Uh we have debt that we have uh we so

we've been married a few years um but we are just kind of getting around to like actually financing not financing uh

consolidating our money. Um but uh

honestly we just weren't budgeting.

Yeah. We just weren't budgeting and we've decided that we can't keep living like this. So >> good. Well good for y'all. It's kind of your we call it your I've had it moment that you've had that you're like we yeah we make 200. What are we doing? Why do we feel broke? Uh, how do we not have enough? So, I love that. Do you guys have the Every Dollar app?

>> Um, we've looked at it. Um, but we are

we've not I've not taken the step to actually set it up yet. >> Okay. We're going to give that uh to you for a year. That's our gift to you guys as a It's a It's a little bit of a a baby a baby gift, we'll say.

>> Yeah, I like that. A push a push present. That's what they call it these days. >> That's right. Yeah. The Every Dollar app is your I hope you get a better push present. I think if you do this budget together, you're going to go, "Oh my gosh, we're bringing in, you know, $10,000 a month, $12,000 a month. Where

is it all >> 2,000 at restaurants?" You know what I mean? Or whatever. Like, it's just crazy what you can spend when you're not watching. Like, so I think you will tighten up that lifestyle. It's going to be a big change for you guys is to live on nothing. You're going to live on nothing. Like, try to make a budget where you're, you know, an $70,000 income, right? And then everything else,

130 goes to this debt and gets it cleaned up, which you don't even need that much. I mean, yeah, you guys will be out so soon. You really will. You have such a great >> You got what, 134,000 in consumer debt?

>> Um >> 90 plus the 44.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there anything you can sell in there? Are there cars involved?

>> Um, we we both have cars that are paid off, actually. That's one thing we don't have. >> Wow. What makes up the 90 in personal credit? Um we have so we financed some um home

improvement things. Uh that's about uh

10. Um we have about 20 in personal

credit card and then there not to jump down a rabbit hole. There's a work credit card that has racked up debt that we're trying to fix >> that we are on the hook for unfortunately. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

>> And then it's 44 in school uh student loans. Oh, is that 44 part of the 90 >> or is that on top of >> is it on top of >> Oh, okay. >> So, it is it is 130. So, you're right, George.

I mean, so yeah, if you guys could live on 70, >> you know, and throw everything at this debt like, you know, you guys can make some money, >> which means we are not doing any investing right now. We are making sure we're not getting big tax refunds. We are not eating out and obviously not going on vacation with a newborn. You know, >> we're not shopping.

We're not going into Target. We're doing nothing. nothing but to get this debt paid off. And again, at Mercy, I really think you guys will will see some big progress.

You know, I will um give you this though. We call it STORC mode.

as much cash until you and baby are home and everything's good. So, if you guys want to start I we're going to give you every dollar. So, I want you guys to make a budget tonight so that you guys can get ready for February and start acting like, hey, we're going to we're going to live on a tight budget this month. But instead of that money going to debt, I would just put it in a savings account for now um until you're

good. And then once you have once you come home and baby's good and you're good, take whatever has been in that savings for the the next two months, which again I'm hoping is like four, you know, eight grand or something, throw it at the debt once that happens. So um >> and do not sit on the fence with this life insurance. Get it done today. I know it's 150 bucks a month, but you need it. It's a non-negotiable in the baby steps. xander.com or you can call 8003564282.

They'll take care of you.

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up next. Jade, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Thank you. >> What's your question today?

>> Okay, so my husband and I are newly wides. We've been married about a year and we have like a huge budget we've combined. I'm afraid we overextended

when we purchased our house when we got married. Um, but I'm just trying to figure out how to combine our multiple

retirement accounts that are kind of spread all over.

>> How old are you? >> I want some. Okay. Um, I'm 48 and he's

55. >> Okay. >> And I think our 30-year mortgage will have some working till he's 85, unless we do something really smart. >> Well, yeah. Yeah. I hope we do something about that. No need to keep it around for 30 years.

>> And so, what you're talking about retirement accounts specifically?

>> Yeah. And we also have a lump sum of 70,000 coming in soon. So I feel like I

have four options with that 70,000 and I want to be really smart with that.

>> Okay. What's your household income?

>> Uh so we gross about 200,000 and I feel

like we bring home about 130 of that.

>> Great. So about 10k a month, a little over that. And do you guys have any debt outside of the mortgage?

Uh just one car for 40,000. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And do you have any savings right now?

Anything cash liquid?

>> Yeah, we have 6,500 in an HSA account

for medical expenses and about 15,000

set aside for our emergency fund.

>> Okay. So, we'll have 70 coming in plus the 15. >> When does the 70 come in, Jade? Did you say? Um, I think 50 will come in in about two months and 30 will come in or 720ish will come in in about four months from now. >> Okay. So, you'll have everything um by April, April, May.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Cool. And have you guys actually combined your finances as far as a checking account goes? How are you handling that?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's give you the game plan and we'll talk about the retirement portion. So, in the baby steps, currently you guys are in baby step two, which means we're knocking out all consumer debt. So, right now for you, that'd be the $40,000 car loan. And the good news is that 50 grand is going to knock out that loan instantly.

>> Okay. And that was my one of my first option choices is take that and put it there. >> I know there's more fun things you probably wanted to do with that, but that is the the right thing to do because it frees up a giant payment.

What's the car payment?

>> Uh$8.25. >> Woo. You just got a raise. >> Great. Great. Great. Great.

So that leaves you, you got 85 total coming your way. 40 goes to the car.

That leaves you with 45K and a majority of that will be your emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. >> And they have 15,000 already of that.

>> Yeah. And so you're going to be golden.

You'll be through baby step three by the time all this money comes in, which gets you to the point where you guys are investing 15% of that awesome $200,000

income. That's 30 grand a year you'll be putting into retirement accounts going forward.

tracking. >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. Yes. >> Now, when it comes to retirement accounts, you were talking about combining. Those retirement accounts will remain in your own name, separate.

>> I mean, like I have Percy from a state

job and then he has a bunch in like crypto and then I have a bunch in one from like two prior jobs. I have some in Fidelity, some in Prior Job, and some in

um yeah, Vanguard, some in

America, and some like So, >> okay. So, it's just there's there's funds all over the place, and you're just trying to simplify your life.

>> Yes. So, we have 10 different retirement

places where money is being held. So, I'm like, >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a lot.

>> Yeah. I if I'm in your shoes, I would be contacting a Smart Ver Pro and saying, "Hey, help us simplify." Now, every account that's in your name is going to stay in your name. that when it comes to retirement and same for him. But what you can do is then kind of pull the money into one place for like, hey, I want to put it all in fidelity. Well, they can help you kind of roll all of that over the things that make sense to roll over.

>> Okay. When we talk about being balanced now, he pretty much went 100% crypto and

I went 100% ETFs.

>> Oh boy. >> Um, so do is like is that balance? That's what he thinks is balanced is yay, we're like 50/50 almost of crypto to >> like as long as one of us has our head on our shoulders, we'll be good.

>> Yeah. No, his his risk meter is is broken if he's putting a 100% of his investing in crypto. >> Yeah, I would not be doing that. >> He's he's gambling.

That's pure speculation. And again, I'm not mad at crypto. If you love crypto, put some fun money in there. But you guys need to be investing 15% of your income into tax advantage retirement accounts with things with a proven track record like mutual funds, ETFs.

That's fine if you want to do that. But putting it all in crypto is not balanced at all.

>> okay, that's a different battle. >> He had about 300,000. Would you say

about 15% of that is like the crypto

play? You're saying he has 300,000 in crypto?

>> No, but if you had 300,000 total

>> in investments, how much is it okay to have in cryp? I mean, we we generally say don't have more than about 5% of your world tied up in in those things that are more speculative, >> right? >> So, it depends on your net worth. You know, >> 10 grand in crypto for someone might be a whole lot and for someone else it might be, you know, chump change for compared to their net worth. So, it's all about ratios there. But I think you guys have an alignment issue more than a financial issue.

>> What does he say, Jade, when you kind of bring up that? Because I mean, does the crypto make you nervous?

>> It makes me really nervous, but he thinks that it'll make him be able to retire a millionaire. So, >> what if I told you he can still retire a millionaire and not even touch crypto?

>> Cuz what's really happening is he wants to shortcut it, >> which I mean, he's 55. He's no, you know, >> no spry chicken here, but there's still a level of I want to get there faster and therefore I'm willing to take shortcuts and potentially try the get-rich quick route.

>> So, >> yeah, and it may not be a battle you win. I don't know, Jade. I don't know what your tolerance is for um Yep. for

that kind of risk, but if I were you, um >> I just wouldn't count on that money being there in retirement. Exactly. You have to play that game. >> Yes. So, so I would for your sake just say, "Okay, well, if you like if he's

just like gung-ho and he's not moving anything, it's not very loving to you." I would say number one. Um, but number

two, making sure that yes, what income that you, you know, the 15% you put in uh to the ETFs or whatever it is. Um, run there's um a calculator on ramseyolutions.com and you can run some numbers and just look at those and see how that makes you feel, right? and and you may be, you know, moving up in your job too and doing incredible and you're like, "It's great. We'll have $4 million for just my stuff." I mean, I don't I'm making up numbers, but you know, you that you'll be great.

You'll be fine.

you know, crashes out and who know who knows what's going to happen with crypto. That's what's hard about it is that there's no long-term track record that we can look back and see what's been proven with it. And so >> again, I'm not mad that he has some in it, but I wouldn't I think we're I think he is not diversified at all. I mean, that's like the >> not even the definition of diversification.

And most financial planners would tend to agree, which obviously they're in the market.

still, it's >> it might take a third party like that.

Knowing this helps with knowing that with the 30k left after paying off the new car that we probably shouldn't put

any more of that in crypto.

>> No, I would not.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. Going forward, I would do that.

That 30k of your 200k, that 15% should be going into actual retirement accounts into mutual funds.

>> So, that would be the game plan.

>> Perfect. The next question I had though and where I wanted to like a big thing is we did buy um a $640,000 home. Uh the

average home price in our market is about 550. There's not very you know. So

if we were >> what percentage of your mortgage what percentage of your mortgage, Jade, is going to um Oh, sorry. What what

percentage of your mortgage is from your um income each month?

Um our >> how much is your mortgage payment? >> Payment is is 4,000. We'll just refinance um to from 7.2% interest to

5.875. >> So it's high. But if you guys can keep up with that income, you'll be okay. But I would not let that mortgage sit around for 30 years while he continues to accumulate crypto. And that is my fear is he will be 85 going why would I put down on the mortgage? I can keep investing in crypto. It's going to be a hard conversation.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan, and that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start.

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stuck. Take control of your money starting today. Go with ramseysolutions.com/start.

Our scripture of the day, Luke 14:11.

For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted. CS Lewis

said, "Humility is not thinking less of yourself, but thinking of yourself less." Poetry right there. That's good.

>> Great quote. >> All right, let's go out to Dave in Denver. What's going on, Dave?

>> Hey guys, thanks for having me. I'm a I'm a loan officer for mortgages. My

question is I often get clients and they they come to me needing a mortgage most often older clients in this situation

and one spouse has passed away. I have

access to their assets or see what they what they have and it's a vulnerable situation and really they don't need a mortgage. What they need to do is sell some of their assets to get a to get a home to downsize. I'm just looking for advice on how to bridge that gap with that and how to properly communicate that to them.

>> So, you see this going to a dangerous place and you're like, "How do I help these people when my job is to lend them the money that they're approved for?" >> Yeah. And it's not overly dangerous sometimes, but like uh you know, they have one spouse maybe have their whole life collecting these assets.

>> Yeah. You you feel like, hey, that's outside the boundaries of my job, but it's like your heart is aching for them to be like, hey, you really need to go do these things.

>> Yeah. So, I'm looking for words of wisdom on how to appropriately navigate that.

>> Well, I think you have the right heart. That's the most important part is is your motive and your spirit and the tone in which you deliver this. Um, but I think just starting with, hey, I want to make sure this house fits your life, not just your approval amount. And as I'm seeing it here, I can see the assets over here. I can see what the mortgage payment's going to be. I think things are going to be tight, unless you make some moves, make some sacrifices here.

And you could offer, hey, one recommendation you could pursue is selling these assets, which could do XYZ.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> And then it's just, it's not you telling what they have to do. It's just saying, "Hey, I try to I treat people how I want to be treated and I can see all of your information here and this is what I'm seeing." >> Yeah.

And it's kind of a, you know, for them, take it or leave it kind of thing, but it's almost for your conscious, you know, you're like, man, I see this and I just want to say it out loud.

And if they don't take that advice and they do something else, that's okay. That's, you know, they're adults and they can do that. >> At least you're sleeping well at night knowing that you said your peace.

>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. And I'm just trying to figure out how I sprayed the D the Dave Ramsey throughout my entire career. >> Yeah.

Love it. I love it. >> It's hard cuz you like, well, Dave says, but you can't do that. It's not going to work.

And instead, you you sort of get to the root of it. You say, "Hey, the families that I see thrive when it comes to buying a home. They have margin outside of their mortgage payment to live and to save and to have fun and go on vacations." And right now, what I'm seeing with your payment, it's going to be a lot of your income taken up by this payment. And so you can go, hey, here's the approval amount, but here would be a let's run the numbers and see what would be a comfortable amount.

And then you can kind of get to the principles without saying, well, Dave recommends 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate mortgage. You know, >> they get to choose the wisdom at that point. >> Yeah. Big Dave, I'm little Dave.

That's Big Dave. >> Little Dave. Big Dave. I like it.

That's true. It's all >> You know what, Dave? I mean, honestly, that's it's really it would be so impressive and it would actually um garner a lot of trust, I would think, from the people you're working for because in some situations, I'm assuming, you know, you're asking for them to pay less for a home, you know, and that's money out of your pocket, too, right? If they choose that, >> less loan, less origination fee, less commission, all of it.

>> Yeah. I mean, all of it. So, there's something um I don't know, really trustworthy for you to say because you're not you're not doing it the other way to be like, "Hey, you should spend more here with me so I can make more." In some of these cases, it's it's the opposite. And so, um they shouldn't be offended by that, right?

kindness in you even doing that.

>> Yeah. >> Well, thank you. >> Absolutely. Thanks for actually being uh, you know, serving well and serving your customers well and being one of the good guys in the mortgage world. That's fantastic. Rachel, I've got a friend in the mortgage world and he knowing what I do, he's like, "Dude, you would not believe >> the debt to income ratios people show up with." >> You're like, "This is bonkers." Like, no one should be giving them this loan.

>> And sadly, a lot of the banks, you run it through the computer and it goes, "Yep, give them the loan. >> That's fine. Yep. Yep. We'll just do it." >> And the bank doesn't always care about the reality of your financial situation.

wild cuz that's part of what got us into the biggest housing disaster in '08 is because of that kind of stuff, too.

>> Lending people money shouldn't. I know.

>> Keep on doing it, though. >> Oh my gosh. >> All right, let's go out to Brian in Alaska. Brian, what's up?

>> Hi. Uh, can you hear me? >> Yes. Loud and clear.

>> Okay, sweet. Uh so I am uh in an

interesting situation um where I

actually live in uh my dad's second home or my parents second home here in Alaska uh while my family lives out of state.

Um and I'm curious. I'm I feel like I'm getting a smoking good deal on uh rent here. You know, I just rent a room, but it's way cheaper than I could rent anything else in the area. How long should I stay here um saving up for a house? Um, you know,

how how long should I let this good deal ride as long as they're willing to give it to me? >> Yeah, it's a good question. Uh, how old are you?

>> I'm 28. >> 28. Okay. Are you married?

>> Uh, nope. Single. >> Single. Okay. Any debt? Consumer debt?

>> Uh, I owe $12,000 on an airplane. Um,

but that's in like a leasing company that I own. >> Okay. 12,000 on. And that is that it? No

credit cards or car loans?

>> Nope. >> Okay, great. And how much? >> No credit card. >> And how much do you make a year?

>> Uh last year um so I started a new job last year in 6 months. Uh I made about

55,000. Um and then this year uh for the

for the whole year, um my guess is about 120 to 140. >> Good for you. Okay. And how much money do you have saved?

Um, I currently only have like $3,000

saved. Um, >> how long have you been living in this or your dad's place?

>> Uh, so I've been living here about 3 years. Uh, I actually used to own half of it and then I sold out um my half to

um my stepmom. Um, that paid off a lot of my debt and uh and was able to give

me a down payment for this airplane that I I lease out.

>> Okay. So, this airplane, is this a a business you have where you basically rent out the airplane?

>> Yep. >> Okay. What do you make from that? Is that on top of your 140?

>> Uh, that that's uh completely separate.

So, I make about $40 an hour every time it flies. Um, and right now it's pretty much just all going back into the business for improvements for the for the airplane. Got it. I'm paying the the principal for um I get a loan from a

friend of mine. Um basically zero interest um that uh that I pay the

principal out of my my personal funds and then the what the airplane makes just kind of gets circulated back and then making improvements for the airplane. >> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. So yeah, the whole

living, you know, with parents or on their property or whatever, you know, for a period of time, I'm totally fine with it. I think after a while, um, there needs to be a point that you, you know, go and you're on your own and you're living, you know, on your own doing your own thing. So, what worries me is, and I know you just got this job six months ago, you said, so I'm not going to harp on it too much, but you've had a, you know, you said, I'm getting a great deal, all this, but you only got $3,000 saved.

So there's a part of me that's like, you know, if people have this idea, I'm going to go live really cheaply at my parents, but then they don't take what they would have paid in rent or more of what they're saving and actually save it. You know, they end up spending it on restaurants and going on trips and stuff. And so then it ends up being this point of like, okay, you weren't using it actually to benefit yourself or to get you further financially. You were just using it for lifestyle in the moment.

So, if you're doing this, I want you to be really, really disciplined and you make a great income. And so, honestly, Brian, I mean, you're a single guy. You're living in Alaska and basically no rent.

you could live on, I don't know, 40 grand a year or something crazy, like you could bank so much money, >> not only pay off this airplane, >> but >> you could have six figures saved up.

Yes. >> You know, by the end of the year, maybe into a little into >> really quickly. And I would I would use that for a down payment on a home cuz as soon as you can get something in your name building equity, that's the best route for you, Brian. So, I'm okay with it for a little bit, maybe a year or two, but I would be so disciplined in that to actually put that money and that savings towards your future and a future home for yourself.

>> I would just say, "Hey, Dad, I'm going to be out on my 30th birthday." And that's the plan. And you go, I'm going to save up like a madman until then. I'm going to live off a,000 or 1,500 bucks a month, and the other 67 grand is going to go into savings for that house. Build for your own future and independence and you will not regret it.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

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## 262. You Can’t Outearn Your Stupidity | October 22, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by my pal and co-host on Smart Money Happy Hour.

Another great show on the RMG network.

Rachel Cruz is here with us as well.

We're here to answer your calls about life and money. The number is88255225.

Miguel kicks us off in Dallas, Texas.

What's going on, Miguel?

>> Hey, George. How you doing?

>> Doing great. How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hey, so um you know, I've been following you guys uh for quite a bit some time now. Kind of wish I'd started earlier like most people, but >> 100%. Same.

>> Here we are. Um, you know, I'm working on on step number six, uh, thankfully.

Um, but I do have a question because I I listen to, um, Dave say all the time how

credit cards are the devil and they are the worst thing that one person can uh, use. And and I agree with all of that except um so a really

long time ago uh kind of like Dave I at

a very young age I did bankruptcy and since then I learned to live within my

means. Um so I've but I've had a lot of

credit cards since then. I just paid them off at the end of the of the month.

I don't have any credit card debt. I haven't had for over 10 15 years now.

Good. So my question is um you know if I

pay off my credit cards at the end of the month and I am using them a lot so that I can get like you know free tickets to travel with my family and stuff like that. Uh would you still recommend that I don't do that? Uh if so why or is it okay for me to continue using my credit cards as long as I pay

them off? >> Well, as of this recording it's still a free country. So you are free to do as you wish. Miguel. And so, is it okay?

Sure. If it's working for you, go for it. But the reason you called in, there's something inside of you that maybe is thinking, >> is there a better way? Could I be doing better? Could I optimize if I use my own money instead of using someone else's and paying it back every month later on?

Sure, you could make the argument in hypotheticals all day long. Uh, but the the real thing here is you're using it to get free travel, correct? Did I hear that right?

>> Yeah, correct. And so, have you actually added up what it would have cost you if you had paid cash, done your own research, found the right flights that work for your family, like, "Okay, I got I got $600 in value out of this, and it cost me 200 for the card for the year." Have you done the math on that?

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, it definitely pays off. Uh like for example last year I

took my family to Europe and it I

completely paid for our uh flight tickets. It was $4,000 worth uh just

with points. I think I had to pay a little bit off. >> How much did you spend tax on it?

>> Oh, you said you had to pay it off the balance the next month.

>> No, no, that that was just paid off with points. So you said you owed a little bit still for the flights is what you meant. Okay. Well, yeah, they make you pay like some taxes, but it was like $200 or something like that.

>> And then how much did you have to spend in order to earn that many rewards, that many points?

>> Uh, >> it sounds like it was a few years of spending. >> Yeah, I haven't done the math, but it was probably a couple hundred grand or something like that. >> There we go. Ding, ding, ding. So, Miguel, the truth is you could have saved up four grand out of a few hundred grand that slipped through your hands.

Am I wrong?

>> Well, but Okay, so here's the thing. I use my credit cards for everything. Uh, you know, I pay my >> I Yeah, I pay my bills. I pay, you know, everything that doesn't charge me a fee for using a credit card.

>> Yeah. A lot of those bills will charge you 3 4% for just running that credit card. >> If they charge me if they charge me even a penny, I won't use my credit card. So, I don't pay my mortgage or anything like that with my credit cards.

But, there are actually a lot of things that I can pay with my credit card. I do my groceries with my credit card, all of my regular spending. Um, and that adds up to quite a bit, you know, throughout the years. >> You've impressed Rachel.

>> No, she's not. >> I'm just sighing. Well, here's the thing, Miguel. A couple of things. Number one, >> sure. >> Studies have been done and it has been proven mathematically that you do actually end up spending more when you're spending it with a credit card.

And it may just be groceries and all the things, but because there is zero emotional connection to your money, subconsciously naturally without you even realizing it, you end up spending more.

we don't even know how that happened. And I'm like, well, because I know because there's no emotional. So, you don't even realize the amount of money that you're actually overspending. So, over years of spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on this credit card to get $4,000 of flights, what could have been saved actually may have been even more than $4,000 with the subconscious spending that you're doing and not even realizing it.

So, that's one thing. And then number two, Miguel, like, and again, this is a personal kind of conviction for me and it may not be for you. I'm not saying it has to be for everyone, but what is what's so frustrating to me and I think because we're in this line of work and George and I talk to people every single day who do have credit card debt and these banks and this whole debt industry has screwed over the American people. They have they have not helped people.

They have hurt people. That's why we have a job. And because of that, the people that are hurting, the single moms that are calling in that have $11,000 in credit card debt and they're trying to get out or it's the families who lost like people that are struggling and they are in credit card debt and they're the ones paying the fees. They're the ones paying the interest.

So off the I mean, it kind of feels like off the backs of people who are struggling and hurting. I don't want a free flight out of that. I have the ability to save up and work hard myself and not have to deal with this industry at all. And there's and I have no bill at the end of the month. You know what I mean? Like I pay for my groceries.

Sometimes I do Instacart and have them delivered and then it's done. And then I'm done. And I'm like I don't have to I don't have to play this game with them.

And and so there's just something so freeing about it. And again that may not be everyone's conviction but when I see mass I see banks and I see their bill all the things too much.

>> Yeah. And I'm just like man they have y'all have screwed over people and people are giving their hard earned income >> to these places to these industries >> and they're not allowing to be able to help themselves, you know. And so I'm like I don't I don't want it. I don't want it.

I will save up. I'm I'm booking a girls trip actually today. I was telling George I was going to buy some tickets and I'm like I will go on Southwest and buy my >> I think it's $196 one way, you know, to get and I'm like that's fine. I will budget for that like all day every day and I don't have to worry about it.

So there I don't know Miguel. It's uh >> here's the experiment. This is fun. So let's say you spent $200,000 to get four, right?

That's 2% cash back.

Here's the experiment. Use your debit card for a year and see if you spent 190 grand instead of 200. Well, that just saved you 10 grand. So, you just gave yourself $10,000 in rewards by not spending more.

So, that's that's the the thing that I can't help you figure out on paper. That's something that you need to explore for yourself. And again, there's the the moral side. I cover eight objections of why people won't stop using their cards in my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

So, how about this? I'll send you a copy.

>> Yeah. No, look, and I I totally agree uh

with you guys um as far as Hello.

>> Oh, I was say, "No, you don't, Miguel." >> Rachel was laughing because you don't agree. >> You don't agree. You're charging those credit cards up. That's fine. We love you. We are great. We're great.

>> Especially with the part uh that you know there's, you know, you don't feel the money coming out of you, you know, when you're using a credit card. Um so

my question is, so >> I wish we had time for more. Miguel, you you burnt out the clock telling us about all the rewards you got going to Europe, my friend. But hey, call us back and hang on the line. I'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. I think it will enlighten you with all the stats.

[Music]

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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[Music]

Andrew's up next in Cleveland. What's going on, Andrew?

>> Hi. How are you? >> Good. >> Um, so my question is, what should I

prioritize? I'm I'm currently employed.

I work in corporate finance, but the job's unstable. I've I've been in the field for a few years now, and just come to realize it's it's not the career for me, and I need to make a change.

I was thinking about going into nursing, but I wouldn't be able to start a program probably till summer. So, given,

you know, the unstable job situation,

I'm not sure if I should prioritize building my emergency fund to cover the unemployment period or having to, you know, work at a severely reduced income or I still have $8,000 on my car I need to pay off over the next few years.

>> Okay. What uh what's causing it to be unstable?

Um, I'm just not very good at it. And you know, >> Oh, you're scared. You may get like you may get like, "Oh, I hear you. I hear you." Have you had some like formal discussions with your leaders and stuff like written up and that kind of thing if that you know >> it's probably coming? >> But I feel like it's coming. >> Okay. Okay, that's fair. Um, >> what kind of work is it?

>> Um, you know, corporate budgeting, forecasting. I I used to I've been in it for a few years. used to be good at it, but I guess the last two years since co I've not become good at it or I've just reached roles that are too senior for my skill set.

>> And you don't enjoy it either, which means you're really not going to try to get better at it when you hate it. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Is there something else in that field? >> I put in a ton of hours, but it just doesn't seem to >> What are you making right now, Andrew, doing that?

>> Yeah, like 110. >> Okay. Is there a role you could take?

Um, I don't know if you want to stay at that company or a different company that at least is a little bit more enjoyable.

You may take a little bit of a pay cut if it's less of a senior role just to get you in a place where at least you're making in an income. You can save um for nursing school and like can actually float you through some of the things you want to do in the future.

>> Yeah, I would like to be able to do that. I just don't know if it's going to be an option. you know, if if this role doesn't work out, if they'll let me take something more junior at the current company or they'll just, you know, cut me off and then I'll have to, you know, try to just find something in the open job market. I have been looking but had a couple interviews but no offers.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> 39. >> 39. Okay. And how long have you been doing this?

>> Like seven years. >> Okay. >> Are you married? >> You good at it? You enjoy it? No.

Single. No children. >> Okay. I'd like to do those things, which is why I'm trying to figure out a way to

reset my career so I can get back on track in life.

>> Yeah, it sounds like there there's a lot behind this. It sounds like you're like Eeyore is your spirit animal right now and you're just down and out. I mean, you got a bunch of debt, you don't like the job. Is it just feel like you're ready for a life change?

>> Yeah. You know, other than the car, I just have a mortgage payment, which is like 1,400 a month. And, you know, luckily living in the Midwest, it's a little cheaper than the coast. Yeah. So, all you have is the 8,000 on the car loan and you have what's what's left on the car loan? You have 8,000 in savings.

>> Yeah. 8 8,000. 8,000 and I currently have 23K saved.

>> Oh, wonderful. >> Well, that's great. Okay. Um, how much is nursing school, Andrew? How much is nursing school?

>> Um, I think it's about 20K a year. I do

have 11 months left on my GI bill that would cover half of it. And like most programs are just under two years, so cover all of it, but 20K is what you need. >> 70% of it.

>> Yeah. >> You know, like I said, I wouldn't be able to start the nursing program probably till the summer and I have a feeling I'll >> Why not January?

>> Um, you have to pass an exam and I have to do some prerex and it's just not enough time to do January.

>> Okay. So, yeah, you've done your research. I mean, at least you kind of know a a pathway.

>> So, the GI bill could still kick in and it would take half. You said it would pay for almost half of it.

>> Yeah. And so that's once I get into the program, I'm more worried about like how I cover my living expenses or prioritize

things between possibly losing my job probably like Decemberish to starting school in May or June.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I I don't know if nursing school you're probably going to have to have classes during the day. I mean, I I have a feeling it's going to be pretty time consuming. >> Full time. >> Could you work part time? >> Work part-time somewhere. work full-time, find a position, and then see if you can scale back when you start school.

>> Okay. Yeah, I could work part time.

>> Or even in the medical field, Andrew, is there anything from like an administrative standpoint with forecasting budgets and helping clinics?

Yeah, something just to at least >> kind of get your foot in the door.

I was going to I've been looking for project management jobs because I have that certification and I thought HR would be lower stressful interesting even though pay is not amazing but that's kind of where I've been looking so far. Just like I said I've had some interviews but no offers.

>> Well, I would get some facts because right now it's a lot of unknowns and it feels like man why even go down this road. I would at least start the conversation with my leaders and see, hey, is there a different role here that would be better suited for me before they start knocking on your door saying, "Hey, man, you got to get out of here." So, I would start being a little more proactive about it. I would pay off the car today and then stack up that emergency fund back up >> and then start saving up for nursing school in the meantime while you have this great income.

>> You know, that's a good point, George, cuz I do wonder if you can get a different role and at least have again some level of high income. I mean, even if you go down to 90 to at least be working until the summer, you know what I mean? And be making that great of an income.

But being proactive may be great. And you may kind of hate it, but you also know it's you're going to be you're going to leave in the summer. So, you're like, "Okay, it's >> Yeah, it's it's 10 months, nine months, eight months." >> Yeah. I'm just I'm just worried I'm not going to make it to like the summer. So

at my company at your one year mark you can switch roles and I reached that in February. >> I know but be pro ask be proactive.

>> Can you just do us a favor and be h like be on yourself right now excited that you want to earn a great income and you want to serve and help because in your head you know it's getting me to nursing school. What I really want to do? >> Yes. That's what I'm thinking.

Let the nursing school dream fuel you to get good at your job for the next few months so that you can keep it until the summer. Do you see where we're going with this? >> It's just a temporary sacrifice. Just fake it.

Put a smile on and go, I know what I'm doing. And then all of a sudden they go, "Man, Andrew really knows what he's doing over there.

Good. Do you have good guy friends around you?" >> Yeah. I uh I play in a couple local men's adult hockey leagues. I I'm an avid runner. I ski.

>> Oh, great. Wellrounded guy.

>> Yeah. Love that. I'm glad. Yeah. There's like a thing to be doing that's fun for you and gives you life and joy. Love it.

Okay, perfect. I >> think we have a game plan here. >> I That's what I would do if I were you, Andrew. I'd be proactive and remember it's you got to just get through the nine months.

>> We don't want a gap in income and you got to figure out how >> you have a good job and you have your your foot's in the door. I mean, you and it's a great income. I mean, average salary in America is like 68,000. So, you're well above that.

So, you're doing better than most people. >> Yeah. So, stick with it.

Yeah, >> but it's kind of like in a relationship, if you kind of have this attitude like it's all going to go down, it sort of makes the relationship go down, doesn't it? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And that's what I'm worried about with your job. How much of this is in your head and they go, "Man, it seems like Andrew's heart's really not in it.

Should probably get rid of that guy." Versus a guy who shows up, does his work well, has a smile on his face. And again, you clock out at, you know, 5:00 p.m. and go home and go to hockey. You can still live your life and enjoy it, but I think that's going to help your it's going to sort if you fake it, it'll sort of make you have a better attitude towards all of this, especially when you know this dream is right on the other side.

>> It's not like I haven't been trying to do well, but I've been getting feedback I haven't. It's just not been formally documented. But yeah, I've been working like 10 12 hour days the last few months. >> Goodness.

It's me trying to keep up and it's our budgeting season. So, everyone's having to put in longer hours. Yeah. Kind of both.

>> Yeah. And I think if you raise your hand with some like that self-awareness of like, hey, I realize I'm not cut I'm not cutting it. Which is a which is a shot to the ego. Like that's not fun.

You know, no one likes to hear that. Um when you don't feel like you're winning in a role. So finding something that you can win at least. You may not love it.

It may not be your life's passion, but at least you have the skill set and the talent around it. Um, I Andrew, if you hold on the line, I do want to give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do because I know your your direction towards nursing, which I think is awesome, but even this quiz may kind of, >> you know, trigger something in you to realize like, oh my gosh, I could be doing this type of role in this company still, maybe. Um, >> yeah, maybe it's in the medical field, but it's not as a nurse.

It could be something completely different. Who knows? We don't want you to to waste any time.

So, hang on the line, man. We are rooting for you for just total life change across the board. I hope you call us back, you know, 6 months from now, 12 months from now, and you're like, I'm in a new season of life and I'm loving it.

Thanks for the call, Andrew.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Applause] [Music]

[Applause] >> Matthew is in Louisville, Kentucky.

What's going on, Matthew?

>> What's going on, man? >> We're just hanging out, having a good time. What's your question today? >> Oh, yeah. Um, all right, man. I'm wondering, should I start thinking about getting me and my girlfriend an apartment and saving more forwards the future? >> Well, we're really getting ahead of ourselves here. How long you guys been dating? >> Uh, we're going on eight months now.

>> Well, might as well be eight years.

>> You like this gal?

>> Uh, she she's pretty all right.

>> Whose idea was it that we should uh live together? Um, sort of my idea because

she already lives with me, my grand and my grandparents.

>> She's living with you and >> How old are you guys, Matthew?

>> I'm 19 and she's 19.

>> Okay. Are you guys working in school?

What's your status?

>> I'm I'm currently working for a blasting company and she's currently working for Walmart. >> Okay, good for you guys. Um, and she's

living with your grandmother and you? Is that what you said? your grandparents and you? >> Yes. >> Um, and because it's too expensive for her to live on her own, like give me or is it relational? You guys just want to be together? >> It was it was between her and her dad.

Her dad wasn't really the best guy, so she wanted to leave him. Okay.

>> So, I gave her an out.

>> Okay. >> So, it was a bad situation. You said, "Hey, come come hang at grandma and grandpa's. They're cool with it." >> Yeah.

>> Okay. How do grandma and grandpa feel about all this? >> Uh, they they love her. They uh to be honest with you, she does more on a house than their own children do.

So >> I believe that >> they they love her. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And your plan is, hey, I want to live on my own, but she's got to come with me cuz she can't afford a place for herself.

What's the reasoning behind this? >> Um I'm more or less we just want to get a head start on life itself.

There's on the property my grandparents live at. There's two buildings in the backyard that's holding their kids.

>> Okay. So, yeah, there's a lot happening.

>> Okay. Um Yeah. So, Matthew, what I would

what I would tell you is

um what we've seen um on the show and just in life that the

couples >> that actually go in an order that's a

little bit old school, you could say, >> actually have higher >> levels of success within their relationship from a commitment standpoint. And so if this is someone that you're thinking really could be you could get married to her.

>> Um I would encourage you guys that maybe

>> she goes and finds an apartment on her own and maybe you still stay with the grandparents for a little bit while you save some money. Um but this whole kind of out of order living together before get married all the things we just found from a relational standpoint there are

higher levels um of success with couples

that literally do in order of they get engaged they get married they move in they have kids like that natural progression um because there's I mean again there's been so many like psychologists and therapists and stuff that come out because there's a there's a weird commitment thing that happens when you live with someone that you're not married to because there's always the exits. There's always a door. Now granted, when you're married, you can always get divorced, but there's a lot of >> bigger Yeah. bigger implications when it comes to that.

>> Um, so yeah, I would just say from if you if you really love her and you guys are thinking like, hey, this could be the thing, which maybe, you know, you know, um, then I would I would pump the brakes on living together.

probably, it sounds terrible, but it's true. There there's an easier out if you need to end the relationship. I mean, you guys are both 19 and I got married young. I was 21, so I think it can happen.

I'm not against getting married young by any means. Um but you also lock yourself into a situation with splitting rent. You you add in all these elements of life um when you're dating that almost feel like you're playing house. you almost feel like you're playing married but but there's not the commitment of it if you will.

Um so that's what I would just say as like a big sister to you Matthew if I was sitting down with you. That's what I would encourage you just from a life >> sounds really logical >> from a life perspective >> but you know you guys are resilient. I'm like she comes from a hard a hard place like that that's a that's a tough situation. I couldn't imagine being 19 and having, you know, to make a choice of like, I have to go on my own.

And she's work, she has a job, she's working. Um, which we get calls on the show, people that are 35 and haven't had a job for nine months. You know what I mean? >> Work ethic is a great sign of success for a relationship.

>> Yeah, for sure. So, I think you guys have a lot going for you.

um be still thinking and dreaming about the future together. 100%. Um, but I

would probably I I would not um

>> Yeah, let's throw out some alternatives.

She has some girlfriends.

>> Um, not really. No.

>> No community. You're the only person she has in in her world.

>> Um, yeah. Me and my family. Yeah.

>> Man, >> did she were Did you guys like go to high school together? >> Uh, no. We went to same county, different high school. >> Okay.

Okay. >> Okay. Cuz my suggestion is, and they don't have to be BFFs, but just get a couple of roommates, and you might need to do the same depending on your situation. At 19, it's just roommate territory.

I had roommates all the way up until I was married. And I think it's a very healthy thing to a step toward that independence without having it all fall on you. Cuz my fear is she's working at Walmart and you're making more than her and you go, "Well, I'll put the rent and you just cover some groceries." And all of a sudden, there becomes this financial imbalance as well. there becomes some entitlements if you're going to pay my bills and I don't have to really go beyond this stage of my career.

So, I'd love to see you both go, hey, what do we want to be doing 5 years from now?

We'd love to have more stable jobs. We'd love to be doing work that we enjoy. And so, you can help her figure that stuff out now while you're dating to help her get a a head start, but I wouldn't do that by getting an apartment together.

>> All right. Thank you.

just one man's opinion, but I I think you got a a great heart and there's some you both have been through some things. The fact that you're living with your grandparents at 19 tells me that there's been other family dynamics and dysfunction probably in your life too, right? >> Uh something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

>> And so I just don't want you I want you guys to make these decisions from a place of strength. And right now it seems like we're just running from the thing that we're in and we're going from one bad situation to a slightly less bad situation.

Mhm. >> So, I'm hoping for your uh independence and I hope that this relationship progresses and one day you put a ring on it and get married and then get a place together and I think you will find that it was well worth the struggle and the patience and the sacrifice. So, thank you for that. Tammy is up next in Detroit. What's going on, Tammy? How can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um I have a question in regards to um kids after

they graduate. So, they turn 18. Um my

husband and I are in steps uh four, five, and six. We've been kind of saving for the kids college fund for the past

probably three to six months. So, we do have some funds right now. Um in those

accounts, I have an 8-year-old and a 5-year-old. Um we did start a 529 for

our 8-year-old, but kind of looking at the way we're investing, I would kind of like to like hone in on what we're doing and what our plan is. Um, my question is

if we should fully invest everything in a 529. Um, because our fear is that we

do that and one or both of the kids end up not wanting to go to college or wanting to do something else and then we have all of that money tied up in a 529 that we're going to get penalized for taking it out outside of a college plan.

My thought was if I we did half in a 529

for each of them and then half in a mutual fund even though I know those are going to be like the mutual fund is going to be taxed. Yeah. >> If we you know take that out later on.

>> Yeah. >> It's kind of like a safe bet though to not put all of our eggs in one basket.

>> Totally. No, I hear you. And we you know >> I would say my husband and I were we have the same discussion. You know what I mean?

we our plan is that they I we I want them to go to college um and if we're able to pay for that that's a gift to them um starting off because I just think from 18 to 21 you know and all the

personalities have a little bit of a different opinion about the college thing. Ken Coleman has kind of a different one, but I just think it's a great step. I really do. Um, if you're able to um because I think you learn a lot about yourself, I think that you getting a degree makes you marketable, all the things if you're able to pay for it.

I mean, really. Um, but if that fear is still there, you if you want to, you could slow down the 529, depend on a mutual fund, but just know you're going to be paying those taxes. It does not have as good of a benefit. But if you guys get 5 years down the line and you're like, "Oh, wow.

We probably they are going to go to school." You can throw more in. >> Yeah. And you can roll over, you know, up to 35k with the new secure act 2.0 from that 529 over to a Roth IRA over a period of time. So you're not out of luck >> in their name.

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[Applause] [Music]

The allnew Every Dollar is here. And now it's way more than just our worldclass budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. The average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes of using the app. So go check it out. Start every dollar for free today. Get it in the App Store or Google Play. Cole is in

Waco, Texas. Up next, Cole, how can we help?

>> Hi. So, I have a little bit of a a

stupid tax that I have to pay.

>> Oh, no. We've all been there. What happened?

>> So, I bought a car. Um, to preface, the plan was to work my butt off for a couple years, pay this car off, and go into automotive engineering school with a awesome paid off project car

with about a 20k splash fund so I could work part-time and all that. Well, the

20k of that, I was given a coin that got

stolen from me. And long story short,

the plan changed. I kind of fell into

the depression for like eight months or so and I'm coming out of that.

>> Wait, got Wait, it got stolen?

>> Wait, >> you said a coin?

>> Yeah. So, I was getting coin.

>> No, it was a 1995 West Point Silver Eagle Proof State. >> A physical. >> A physical coin that you paid 20,000 for. >> I didn't pay for this coin. Uh, my uncle bought it back in 1995.

>> Okay. it kind of hung around and he gave it to me and said that he would hold on to it and uh he didn't he sold it and

took that money for himself.

>> But you didn't So you never you never had the money?

>> I never physically had it. But >> but it was promised. It was promised to you. I hear you. Okay. >> That's >> And you didn't keep his word and he went and sold it and used the money.

>> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. And that relationship is is long done, it sounds like.

>> Uh yes, for the most part. I still deal with them, but I don't talk to them.

>> Okay. Uh >> where do we stand today? How much debt do you have?

>> So I I have roughly $33,000 in debt.

Four of that is credit cards. 293 is my

car. Uh

I'm roughly a little less than $10,000 upside down on it. I have no savings or

anything like that. >> So, it's worth about 19 >> and you owe 29. >> It's Yeah, it's really roughly worth about 21 at the moment. >> Okay. >> Is that for private sale? >> Wholesale? That's wholesale.

>> Okay. >> I might be able to get a little bit more out of it. >> Oh, yeah. You will. Yeah, you probably get 25 if it's like an individual.

So, >> I just don't know how to get out of this car quickly because also I'm 22 and insurance on it is >> Yeah. >> more than the payment on the car.

>> Yikes. Okay. What do you make?

>> Uh, I was whenever I purchased the car, I was making 50K a year. Um, now I'm

making roughly 33.

>> Oh, no. >> Yikes. All right. >> Do you have anything in savings? >> 8 month span. >> No, you don't have anything. >> Zero.

>> Zero. I have about 11K and a 401k.

That's it. Okay. Yeah. Let's not touch that. >> Um, what do you do for a living? What are you What are you doing for work >> right now? I'm detailing cars. Uh, I could, you know, do it on the side and stuff. I just haven't really >> So, you work for a detailer?

>> Yeah. I I work at a dealership at the moment. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. >> You make 33k doing that and you're allowed to do it on the side on your own? >> Yes. >> On nights and weekends? Yes. >> Okay. >> And what were you doing when you were making 50k?

Selling cars. >> Selling cars. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.

>> Um, yeah. I mean, I would be making a career change and selling this car. That those

would be my two biggest moves right now. And if you can do the detailing on the side, um, >> all day. I mean, I would be doing that.

>> Could you do like five cars a weekend at 200 a pop?

>> Uh, if I It would be fine in the customers to do that. I could do that um

like timewise and physicalitywise. It's

just finding the customers. >> That's easy. That's the easy part. You go into any local Facebook group, neighborhood group%, >> you just do one good job and they'll tell people and say, "Hey, >> or go to a company.

I I drive through our parking lot and I'll see two or three details. They're mobile people." Yes. I mean, >> you start posting everywhere and you're reliable and you show up and you're professional, >> dude. You will have customers out the door and you can have recurring.

Hey, would you sign up for uh you know next month if I gave you cut you a deal?

>> Yeah. So, and and you know, Cole, what I would probably do, too, to get out. I mean, this car, what you owe is almost what you make in a year. And so, our rule of thumb is always about that 50% mark. So, you are way over that. So, I

would be in a little bit of panic mode >> um >> just to get rid of it. So, I I wonder if you could go down to your local credit union and see if they'll give you like a $8,000 loan or something, take four of it, pay off the difference of the car after you sell it for 25 to an individual, and then you'll have 4,000 to buy a really crappy car.

>> Will the dealership give you like the worst car on the lot?

>> Uh, most of the cars that we sell here are over $10,000. Uh, I was think that's

what I've been thinking is going to my credit union and asking them for an amount and getting a car. And so that is a viable option in this situation is trying to talk to my credit union.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I mean, I would though because I would much rather you have $8,000 that you owe versus $30,000 that you owe.

>> Um, >> and then you'll, you know, you won't have that payment anymore. You won't have insurance. >> What's the payment right now?

>> So, I I have pretty decent payment for at the moment. Uh it's 570.

>> Decently large. And then the insurance is over that large. Yes. >> And how much is the insurance? >> Uh so the insurance was larger than that

for a majority of it. It was like 600, but I gotten it down to like 350 and some change. >> Okay. >> What do you mean got it down? Did you remove some things from your policy?

>> No, I I found an insurance guy that

shops my insurance around and >> Okay. With a broker. All right. That makes me feel better. But that frees I mean that frees you up god close to $1,000 Cole a month if you can get this.

I mean grant you'll have the payment to the credit union. But um >> dude I'd be I'd be putting business cards in every single person's car I detail. >> Yes. >> And say hey uh I do this on the side.

Would be honor to to help you out if you ever need detailing.

>> Yeah. Are there are there nice uh upscale neighborhoods close to you?

>> Yeah, there's there's plenty of upscale.

>> That's what I would do, too. I would be.

Oh my gosh. Yes. All day.

>> We always say rich people are scared of leaves. So dirt work. They don't like

dirt. So go clean their cars. I mean, I'm not kidding. There is so there is so much so much you could do. Um because you have the talent for it. You know what you're doing. Do you know what I mean? You're not just like making this up. Anyone could go do it. >> You do it professionally. >> But you're like, "Yeah, you're good at this." And then are you able to step back in and sell cars and get some income back up?

Uh, I thought about it, but honestly, selling cars, I I don't like, you know, the the idea

of putting people in the situation that I'm in. >> Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I hear that. Okay. Well, we got to do something. >> So, >> we got to do something. >> That was that was the reason that I kind of left is because I didn't have that point that I was going towards and the work that I was doing wasn't my favorite. Um, but I think I'm going to

jump into the detailing thing. Another thing was that my girlfriend and I are planning to move to a different city in roughly a year or less. Uh, and that's

kind of why I'm really like, okay, I need to figure this out. Um, >> why are y'all moving?

>> She is planning on getting a full-time job in San Antonio, and I really don't

have anything left here that holds me

here. And I thought maybe the opportunities in San Antonio would be just as good, if not better, than here.

>> Yeah, I actually just met a couple from San Antonio.

>> This seems like a a good plan to kind of

see take our relationship to the next level also. And >> it definitely puts some pressure on you move out there with her. This thing better work out.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> So, um, >> good luck. And also remember this, you go with you. So don't think that your life is magically going to change just cuz you entered a different city.

>> The person you are now is going to go with you. So make the changes now before you move. Get yourself in a position that when you land in San Antonio, you're a different guy than you are today.

>> I already hit the ground running. I appreciate that, >> dude. I would go full in I would start detailing so much that I have to quit my job because I'm making too much doing it on my own. >> That's what I personally would do. These guys are making six figures that are doing it full-time. They're crushing it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Go all in there. >> If you break out into, you know, clay bar and ceramic coating and like you start get into some fancy stuff, you can charge hundreds and hundreds of dollars per job. And I think you love their cars. They'll pay for it, too. >> That's right. Not me, but Rachel would pay for it.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my f my friend Rachel Cruz this hour.8825-55225

is the number to call to join the conversation. Andy is down the road in Nashville. What's going on Andy?

>> Hey, not a whole lot. How are you guys doing today? >> Doing great. What's your question today?

>> Awesome. So, my question is I recently

purchased a home and um I've accumulated

quite a bit in debt which I know you guys practice against. Um, so to try and

mitigate this debt, I'm thinking what

I'll do is I've got a house on the property and a shop house on the property. What I'm really looking to do is to move into the shop house and rent out the bigger house, but um, seems like

some of the people I've got that are close to me have have advised against this. And, um, you know, I'm just I

wanted to ask the pros and they listen to the show. So, I'm excited to to hear what you guys have to say.

>> Okay. So, give us some some numbers,

Andy. How much are you in debt?

>> I bought the house for 250,000. Okay.

>> Put about 30,000 down. So, I've got

about 220,000 roughly.

>> Is that your only debt? Is just the house?

>> Yeah. So, actually I sold both vehicles

that I had at the time and now I'm driving around in in beers. Um, so so

yeah, that's my only debt.

>> Okay. >> It sounded like you had like racked up some consumer debt, but it's just the mortgage.

>> It's just my mortgage. Yes, sir. >> Okay. And how much do you make a year?

>> Roughly 130,000 a year.

>> Okay. And is the mortgage payment overwhelming to you or you're just wanting to do this just to get to get the house paid off as quickly as possible?

>> So, I make the house payment in in less

than a week. But the the main motivator

for why I'm doing what I'm doing or thinking of doing what I'm doing is because I'm a truck driver and I just don't make it home a lot. I'm only home about two days a week. So, I'm trying to >> Okay. >> I I've Yeah, I I've comped some similar

properties in the area that are being rented and, >> you know, I could I could basically come out even if I rented that and stayed in

the shop house. I could have my bills paid for for free basically.

>> How much How much is your payment a month?

>> It's around 1,500 a month.

>> Okay. Do Are you married?

>> Uh I'm not. Uh we're we're getting there. Okay. Does she want to live in the house once you get there?

>> She uh so we live in the house currently and she doesn't want to move out into the shop house. Even though I think it's nice enough for us, I don't think that it's up to her standards necessarily.

>> Yeah. I mean, you're not making it sound super enticing. I'll say that. You say shophouse, it doesn't sound like a place where a person should live. So,

>> well, it it's like an apartment. It if you could imagine a little studio apartment, it's something of the nature of that, but it's it's beyond livable.

It it's nice in my opinion. It's just >> Well, and she's the girlfriend. She's living there for free, I'm assuming.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. So, I wouldn't want to live in the shop house. So, if my if I was living with my boyfriend and he's like, "You got to go to the shop house because I'm renting this out." I'd probably be like, "Great. I'm going to go rent an apartment.

and right like she she needs to

>> do what she needs to do.

>> Um so relational I don't I don't want to make the decision based on the girlfriend. If it was your wife I'd be like >> Andy Andy Andy Andy >> but it's a girlfriend like she doesn't have any skin in the game. >> It just feels like this is not worth the juice isn't worth the squeeze on this. You don't need to do it. Nothing's on fire. You have a great income and a very reasonable mortgage. Why not just continue on?

Well, the >> what's the actual financial problem?

>> Well, as far as the as far as the

financial problem goes, it's just the fact that I've signed a 30-year note on this house and I'm thinking of all the interest that I'm going to pay. So, pay it off early. >> And I could be >> Well, I thought about doubling up the payments when I live in the shop house and then we could see each other more as well because I'm only home two days a week right now and you know. So, >> could you double the payments now while still living in the main house?

>> I probably could.

>> Yeah. The only downside I would think is that if Are you wanting this house long term, Andy? Like, do you see like it'll probably be with you for a while? I just I always it feels a little weird to have people living in a house for two, you know, two or three different families or people um and then you go back and move back into it.

Does that make sense? Like I don't know. It's um >> so >> it just doesn't feel like any of this was intentional. It's just sort of like well I could do this and your family steering you against it.

Why?

They're steering me against it because they know that I can afford it as is and

no one in my family has ever rented out a property before. But the way I look at

it from a financial standpoint is if I

live in the shop house, double or triple up on payments, I can have a I can turn a 30-year mortgage into a, you know, a three or four or fiveyear mortgage.

>> Sure. >> And >> and then I can be off the road at that point as well. Yeah, for me it's making sense from a lot of different angles.

>> Yeah, I'm not mad at it. I mean, I don't think it's necess I don't think, like what George said, I don't think this is an urgent move that I if you had called and I would have been like, "Oh, you have a shop house? Great. You should live in that to rent out your main house." That would not have been my advice to you anyways.

>> But if you want to do it, that's I mean,

that's up to you. and you'll make extra payments and but you're just going to have people living in there and then the something's going to leak and break and they're going to be calling you on the road. You're going to have to, you know, figure out, okay, I got to get a plumber down. I mean, there's legit >> it's not hasslefree. It's not just easy money, >> right? And I think a lot of people think having a rental there's like it's passive income is what everyone says.

And it's it's there's a level of responsibility you have that you have to be on call, you have to be willing to to work with these people, whoever's going to live in there. Um but but one thing I

do like Andy is that you're not desperate because then you can actually probably go through a an actual >> you'll take worse tenants interview process and get some good tenants and you know what I mean like you're not in a rush. >> So I would never suggest you do it. I don't think you need to but if you want to then do it and then >> I don't think it's going to break you but I don't think it's going to be the sweet sweet free money that you're envisioning either.

>> Okay. So, do you have savings in the bank? You have an emergency fund?

>> Yep. Yes, sir. I do.

>> How much?

>> I've got roughly 35,000

liquidity. >> You've done really well. >> Yeah, Andy. Well done. >> I'm proud of you, man. >> Seriously. >> Thank you. >> I I just think I would set a goal for myself where I still get to live in my own house and then I make extra payments. And so, figure out a way to do that and I think you'll cut your mortgage in half or more just on your own valition without ever becoming a landlord.

Okay, >> that would be my goal. >> Giving me a >> That's great. >> And once you're married, if she's working, she'll add to it, too. She'll help knock down that mortgage if you guys are both working.

>> I don't know how she's going to like that idea >> of her working in the future.

>> Is she working now? >> You know, she is she is a gym coach for

little girls and they actually went to the Junior Olympics this year. So, >> that's sweet. Really nice. So, I love

for her to follow her dream. >> Do you think I could make the team?

>> Well, you could try. I think she'd be happy to work with you. She likes anybody. She's good with people.

>> That's sweet. She sounds like a keeper, man. Best of luck to you with this uh decision. It's not an easy one. I I wouldn't take it lightly, but I think you have a good game plan here of just figuring out how to do this without becoming a landlord for now. Good luck.

[Music]

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[Music]

Jack is in Dallas up next. Jack, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you guys >> doing? Great. How can we help today?

>> I'm wondering how to pay off debt with my fiance.

>> That sounds dicey. Whose debt is it?

>> Yes. Well, a little bit of mine and a little bit of hers. I have a car loan and she has student loans. She'll be graduating from law school in May of 2026. >> How much is that going to be?

>> Uh, I think about 60,000. See, part of the thing is I don't know exact amounts.

I have uh rough ideas and I've seen it in the past. Um, but we haven't actually sat down and talked about it since we've been engaged.

>> Okay. When's the wedding?

>> Uh, March 21st. And we're actually in um premarital counseling with our church right now and we're doing the finances topic this Sunday. >> Awesome. >> Well, there you go. So fun. Okay. So, hers you don't know how much she'll owe in law school debt >> exactly. >> Yeah. I imagine it's going to be around 60,000. Um >> are you saying 50 or 60? Sorry.

>> Uh 60. >> 60. Okay. And yours is how much?

>> Uh 32 on a car.

>> On a car. Okay, perfect. How much are you making right now income wise?

>> About 110. About 110,000.

>> All right. And when she gets out of I'm assuming she's not working right now.

>> No, she has a part-time job, but just a like grocery and gas. >> And she will graduate. You said sorry.

Um >> May.

>> Yes. Next May. >> Okay. So, she'll be in school for like two months while you guys are married.

>> Graduate and then she will How much do you think she'll make coming right out?

Does she have any idea? >> Ballpark. Uh, we're not sure. I've been ballparking like 70,000 or so.

>> Okay. Yep. That's great. Um, well, I mean, the answer's really easy. As of right now, you just be paying on your debt and try to get your car paid off.

It'd be a fun game to try to get it paid off by the time you guys get married.

>> And the goal should be not go into any more debt. >> Yes. So, no debt for the wedding, no debt for honeymoon, all of that. Um, but yeah, you you just keep everything separate until you officially get married.

And then when you guys have the wedding in March, um, come back from the honeymoon, then you guys can attack this as a couple. >> Combine bank accounts, combined incomes, combine the debts, do the debt snowball method. So just whatever the smallest balance is left, we're going to attack that and make minimum payments on the rest. And you guys will plow through this with her new income and your fantastic income and under 100,000 of debt to pay off.

>> Got it. Do you think I should deploy? I have a little bit of a cushion. Um, should I deploy any of my excess savings into the car right now? I guess just kind of pay as much as I can on the card. >> How much do you have that you could liquidate?

>> Um, let's see. I've got 37K in retirement. Eight of that is in a Roth.

Um, and then I have like 12K in various

cash savings right now. >> Okay. So, we won't touch retirement, but anything that's cash or non-retirement, you could >> Hold on. How's How's the honeymoon and the wedding getting paid?

>> That's a good question. Well, so her parents are paying for the wedding. I am paying for the honeymoon. And so some of that savings will be going towards the honeymoon.

So I guess really I have like 5k in savings. I am also living rentree with my grandparents right now. >> Oh, nice. Great.

>> So you could really stack away cash fast. >> That's what I'm thinking.

>> You got intense? >> I don't think I could get all the way there, but I could probably get it down to like 15 or less, I would imagine. I mean, you're making like what? 7K a month take home >> basically. 67 68. Yeah.

>> Okay. And you don't have any rent. So, like, could you throw 5K a month at the car and be done in 6 months?

>> If I tried really hard. Yeah. I I I struggled with lifestyle inflation once I got the job because I've been making since I've got out of >> This is what I was getting at, Jack. I find that when people are living rentree, they tend to get comfortable and their spending tends to go up, not down. >> So, you just trade what you would have paid in rent and it disappears into Door Dash and whatever else.

>> So, I would implore you like your life and marriage is on the line to attack this car loan so that when you guys are married, you have freed up that car payment, which is how much a month?

>> Uh, 559.

>> Boom. So now we have an extra 600 bucks of horsepower to throw at these student loans on top of our now dual income come May. >> For sure. For sure.

>> Yeah. Get aggressive with it, Jack. I mean, honestly, because y'all are going to be living that same lifestyle >> besides just rent because I'm sure you guys will rent somewhere. Um >> to pay off these student loans.

So, you kind of getting in the habit of being disciplined and learning to say no and all the things will go right into marriage. and you guys together, you kind of live on we we say rice and beans and rice, rice and beans and then get the student loans paid off and then you guys Yeah. are making almost 200k a year. My gosh.

With no with no debt, you know, >> and then her 60k of student loans is knocked out super fast. >> And it's going to be easier to sacrifice right now, Jack. It really is. When you guys get back from the honeymoon and you you know, your friend, you guys are It's just going to be this whole new exciting part of life.

Like right now is when I would do it >> as much as possible. the stakes.

Life is only going to get more expensive. So, while you're still quote unquote single, I would use this time you have while she's in law school.

Super busy. You get busy, too, paying off that car loan, my friend. >> Get an extra job. I mean, yeah, y'all just go crazy and get it paid off. You can do it. >> How old are you?

>> Uh 24. >> Oh my goodness. >> And then, Jack. Yeah. And then you said you probably will have around 5,000 in savings. That's not going to the honeymoon. Throw that at it. You know, just get this momentum going. That knocks it down to 27 and now he's throwing 5K a month. You're done before the wedding, my friend. While still having enough to cover the honeymoon. This is a best case scenario.

>> All right. Thank you guys. >> Boom. >> Congratulations. >> So exciting. >> Excited about March. What a great month.

What a great month to get married. >> Is that when you guys were married? >> No, December. >> Okay. I don't know. It just feels springy and new. I don't know. It's great. >> Rebirth. Beautiful.

>> All right. Emily is up next in Atlanta, Georgia. What's going on, Emily?

>> Uh oh. Oh, your phone's all busted. Emily, can we hear you?

>> I can hear you. Can you hear me?

>> Yeah, we're good now. >> I'm so sorry. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's your question? >> Um, I have a 4month-old son that we have

started a 529 plan for. Um, but I was

speaking with my financial adviser a little bit ago and she recommended um a

UTMA or UGMA account. Um, I was just

wondering what your thoughts were on possibly putting some money in a UTMA

account, like to pay for um, maybe like

their first car or something like that, or if I just should put all that money towards 529.

>> Awesome question. How old are the kids?

>> Um, I just have a fourmonth old son.

>> Oh, sweet. Okay, so we got plenty of time. This is the best time to open up an investment account. >> Uh, here's my thing, and this is nothing not a knock against your financial adviser. I'm personally not a fan of the UTMA and UGGMA accounts because that money is legally that child's money. So, you lose control completely.

>> Okay. >> And there's no way to restrict Yeah.

once they turn 18 or 21 depending on the state law. >> It's basically like opening an investment account in their name, but the UTMA's the umbrella that covers it shields it from them until they're 18.

So, what George is saying is if you start investing, investing can be crazy over 18 years if you start throwing like a hundred 200 bucks in a month. I mean, that stuff can just it could be a lot of money for an 18-year-old. So, George is just saying caution because you could be handing over I mean, tens, hundreds, thousands of dollars. Yeah. Depending on how much you put in there >> and how much growth. >> Um, but yeah, so for a car and stuff, I probably wouldn't honestly. Um, now mom

and dad, they did for us, we started um

when we started working and actually could file a tax return and all of that, they opened up a Roth IRA.

>> Once you have earned income, it's >> Yeah. And that was more when we were teenagers. Um, but that kind of thing is so helpful cuz it's crazy even just that me opening that as a teenager versus even my husband when he opened his when he was like 23, you know, starting to work like even that year of difference.

So there's ways to definitely set them up well to get some things going. Um, like a Roth or the 529 as well, but things Yeah. for them um purchases like a car and that kind of thing. Emily, honestly, I would probably have them involved in it.

I would just have a high yield savings account and you guys just kind of cash flow it uh when the time comes. >> What I would do and what I am doing, Emily, for my kids is I'm going to do a 529 plan for each kid, invest there, and then if I want money beyond that for, let's say, a wedding one day, a house down payment to give to them. I'm just going to do that in a non-retirement brokerage account that I have control over. That makes me feel a whole lot better than handing >> you can just gift it if it's not beyond the gift tag, right?

Yeah. You can gift it to them. >> Yeah. And it's not under their name at 18.

>> So that's a safer bet. I like the plan of 529 for college. Let's make sure we get that done. >> Are you prepared for Mia and Henry to just be crazy Helens that you're like, I can't give you any money.

I don't trust you.

>> What kind of kids will I raise? >> What are you going to raise, George? >> Likely they'll be so frugal. They'll be like, Dad, we're not that's so much money. I'm like, I raised you right, kid. I raised you right.

>> It's a great question, though, Emily. You're you're a good mom to be asking for a fourmonth old >> for a fourmonth old. That kid's going to be unbelievably wealthy. It's changing a family trip. >> Well done.

[Music]

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[Music]

Patrick is up next in San Diego. What's going on, Patrick? How can we help today?

>> Hey guys, how's it going? >> Great. How are you?

>> Good. Uh sort of simple question, but I'm assuming there will be more uh probing necessary. Um I live in a county where the housing costs are pretty high.

Um my wife and I have uh 20 to closer

actually to 25% um saved up for a down payment. Um but

if that was to happen, it would have to be a 30-year instead of a 15. Um, I know the show enough to know, you know, 15 is

is going to be what we're directed toward, but I'm wondering how hard and fast is that rule thinking of certain

areas where um a 30 might be more

practical, especially get into the housing market.

>> Well, I'll start off with this. What we always tell people, and you're from California, and we usually end up saying it to people from California, that you're not exempt from math. uh it is what it is. So like that it doesn't you know from a philosophy standpoint our uh

advice does not change because of where you live. It you know the math is the math. So the 15 year to the 30-year it it is what it is. So um so I would say

yeah I mean we will always stick to that 15-year just to lock you in to a system that's going to get you out of debt as soon as possible. Now does everyone follow that Patrick? No they don't. But um but I I would not steer you any other way. Um but again, is it something that

people do but follow Ramsey?

>> There are worse sins. Like I don't think it's going to ruin your financial life to get a 30-year. Uh but again, the amount of people who I find who actually pay their 30-year off like a 10, very slim. The people who get a 15-year and pay it off in 15, 100% of the time, they at least do that, if not way earlier.

In our in our millionaire study, we found that the average millionaire pays off their home in 10 years. That wasn't necessarily their first home, but they paid it off in 10 years. And the average baby stepper pays it off in a little over seven years. And so there's just this discipline and intensity going, I'm just going to do it in a way that limits how long I'm in debt against my human psychology, which says just lower the payment, make it easier on me.

down to get that payment reasonable on a 15-year? Have you done the math on that?

>> Yeah, close to I think so. The majority

of it is coming from um IRA that um we wouldn't be penalized

taking it out other than like capital gains taxes. Um, if we just let it sit

for a little bit more, I could imagine doing that. Um, but it Yeah. And it

would lower the monthly. That is uh correct. But it it spikes up such that I

don't know that the 15-year just sort of freaks me out. I'm content renting for the rest of my life. Um, and in this county, that's not necessarily a given.

It's just I I feel like a lot of people >> Well, no, it is expensive.

Yeah, you're inouthern California.

>> In this market, it makes a lot of sense to rent right now comparatively to buying a home. And so I think that's what you're experiencing. But you're saying, is it your wife that's like, "Hey, I really want my own home. I want some stability here." >> Yeah, I think so. Well, I should know.

So, yes, it is. >> Okay. And the other thing I want want to make sure that we have the parameter down. Our teaching is 25% of after tax

income, but that's before other deductibles like your health care premiums, your 401k contributions. And so that might help your math out in a good way if you just take, hey, here's our gross income, then here's our net income after taxes, and then you can subtract out any other premiums that come out.

>> Yeah, that makes sense. We we just went through a potential purchase that that fell through for HOA reasons and I think

I found that we probably could afford a little bit more than I thought. It just sort of I don't know big purchases scare me. We're we're just about done being um completely out of debt. We just have a a car and we have enough in the savings to

buy out the car. We're we're moving right now to an apartment because the the housing opportunity fell through.

And so I just I want to keep the the cash um just until we move for you know

for any unforeseen. >> So what's left on the car loan >> issues?

>> Uh 195 and we've got about 35 in

savings. >> But that 35 you're saying is your down payment fund or is that separate?

>> No, that's completely separate. That's all liquid just between a money market and our own just sort of not acrewing any interest uh savings account.

>> Got it. So, if you paid off the car today, that would leave you with 15K for your emergency fund, and you could beef that back up over the next few months.

>> Yeah, correct.

>> I would do that. I like that plan.

>> Yeah. My only concern is is I just I

would like to have it once we And we're looking to move in like two weeks. I would like to have it and then once we move and get settled in, then pay it off right away. I'm I'm looking to pay it off, you know, probably within like three or four weeks. I just want to make sure that it's there while we're moving.

Is Is that like I don't know. Is that over concern or or is that >> Probably it's going to cost you $30,000 during an move to an apartment.

>> Well, I mean they are running credit checks and things like that. So, that's one of the things we're in application process right now. So, I I wonder if it would look a little bit if you want to make sure you have enough. >> Well, usually it's first month's rent, last month's rent and security deposit >> for most places. Yep. um which is

plenty. >> They're not going to surprise you and be like, JK, you owe us $20,000 today. It's just not going to happen. So, I think a lot of this is a little bit in your head, a little bit of like, I feel this sort of false sense of security having this pile of money over here.

>> And again, just like the 15, like if you want to wait four weeks to pay off the car, that's fine. I think that the idea is that we're moving forward, but also I don't want you to get um stuck in a reality that's not reality either.

so, just yeah, I would just kind of challenge a little bit of that. But I think you guys you guys are on the right track. you're doing fantastic. Um yeah,

with all the money saved from down payments. >> Yeah. How much are saved in the down payment fund?

>> Um right now, so the the inner workings of it is it's an inherited being transferred into an IRA. So before I sort of promote myself as really diligent, a lot of that was helped out.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. So um in terms >> How much will you net from that once you cash it out after taxes?

>> Uh after Yeah. Uh and after sort of we're doing the slow transition so that you know it doesn't change taxes stuff like that. Um probably within 7 years or

so there will be my guess is around between um five and 550 into the um

non-inherited IRA. >> Okay. But you're moving it slowly to avoid getting hit with huge taxes.

>> Yeah. And we don't need any of it right now. So this seems like the best option.

>> Well, you need it for a down payment. So, how much are you going to be able to put down if you bought a house within the year?

>> That I mean that's the thing for me, too. I'm like, man, I would just love to get as close to paying cash for a home as I can. We're already investing in retirement as well. So, if we if we completely empty it out, um we'll still have retirement left over that we're continually building and then we'll have the asset of the home.

>> Yeah. Okay. I'm confused. You have your savings of 35,000 and then you have this inheritance that's coming.

It's not here yet.

>> We were going to purchase that. Yeah. So, I'm probably not being super clear. The inherited is currently in process and has been of moving to a um a Roth.

>> So, how much is in it to avoid the taxes? >> Um in the inherited or in the Roth?

>> The one that you would have access to to put a down payment. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> 140. >> So, that was going to be your down payment.

>> Correct. Gotcha. Gotcha.

>> That makes more sense. What is the house going to cost that you're looking at?

>> What kind of budget? >> Yeah. Yeah. Probably my my ceiling is

750. Um but it's anywhere around there.

My I mean my hope would be somewhere around like 550 to six, but it's just it's tricky in this county.

>> Yeah. And I'll say, you know, I mean, real estate looks a little different everywhere, but for the most part, um it's a great time to buy. I'm like from a from a buyer's perspective, it's more of a buyer market right now than a seller. So even Patrick, if you guys pumped the brakes for another year or 18 months and got more of that inheritance, you know, like all of that to give you some cushion, I wouldn't be in a rush to buy a house.

But I I would be more on your wife's side that you want to be a homeowner. I think that's part of your financial plan overall. And if right now is the best time to get in if you're going to get in. So if you're going to get into the market.

So yeah, um >> I wouldn't do it tomorrow and I wouldn't wait 6 years either. >> No. >> So I'd find a game plan that works for both of you and just go hard at it. And I would follow the baby steps.

Right now it's a little bit all over the place.

And so I would just follow it through all the way, man. It's going to give you a lot of peace. >> Pay it off today. You can do it.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices, that's the middle, dipped a bit last month to about $426,000, a typical season shift as we head into fall. And buyers have more options and negotiating power, while sellers face some more competition, and houses are sitting out there a little bit longer.

Mortgage rates dip slightly to 5 a.5% in September, which gave buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop. Just like we say, hey, don't time the in, you know, stock market.

Don't try to time the housing market cuz you just don't know what's going to happen. So, to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseysolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube. Sam is in Atlanta up next.

What's going on, Sam?

>> Hey, good afternoon. I appreciate you guys taking my call. Uh, quick thing.

Well, I started a construction company about a year and a half ago, and it's been rough going. And since running that company uh through Bed Business Partners, I've found I found the

business about $70,000 uh in debt. And I carry on top of the

$70,000, another $40,000 in debt. Uh the

business is bringing in about $10,000 a month. for that 10,000 I'm using about

five to six,000 per month to try to pay off some of this credit card debt that I've incurred uh with the business and

I'm at a point now because I had a work truck I paid off but it just

you know uh took a crap so I'm at this

point now where I need to buy myself a new vehicle to try to keep this business going to try to pay off this debt or do I just close down the business get a job work in construction with my experience where I can make maybe 120k a year and then just use that to pay off my personal debt of the $40,000.

>> Well, that sounds good. Not trying to >> How easy is that to just go get a job in construction, make 120K?

>> Uh, with my experience, it's quite easy.

You see, there's a lot of uh fields that are lacking in construction. There's this very big uh need in construction for talented individuals. and I have been in the industry myself for about 17 years. >> Cool. And is there any hope for this business to be making 20K a month in the

next few months?

>> Uh in order for me to make 20K a month, I would need to hire some uh some I would need to hire on some other individuals to let me carry on the road.

>> So why I guess why is the business struggling right now? What's the cause of that?

Uh the cause of that is I during the

last year and a half of me running the company uh with being a novice to owning

a business, I got bullied by some big general contractors. And what I know now

is that they breached their contract and made me take about a $70,000 loss over the course of seven projects.

>> So you got hosed on these deals?

>> Yes. All right. And is that going to happen in the future? I guess I'm wondering, is it time to close up shop because you're just tired of it, it's stressful, and you'd rather just work for someone else and collect a check because that's great. Or is there room for this business to actually scale and grow and help you clean up the debt faster?

>> Uh, there's a lot of room for the business to grow. I think I'm well, I say I think I know I'm much more well

adapted today than I was when I first started the company. Uh it's just this

that kind of gnawing at the you know the

back of my neck because my wife and I we've been debt you know for years uh up

until having this company.

>> Okay. So yeah you're in a in a tough spot right now and it's hard to see your way out. >> Yeah. And the business is bringing in 10K right now. So basically you would be you're bringing in 120. You'd be making 120. But when you own the business you have other expenses. You got your you got taxes you got to be thinking through. You got to have the supplies and all of it. >> Like are you getting 10k gross from the business? Is that what you're paying yourself?

>> That's correct. Yes. >> Okay. That's the profit that you take home.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I would be applying and seeing what's out there. See if you can actually get that six figure construction job before I close it down just so there's not a gap in income. >> Yeah. What do you What do you want to do? What sounds enjoyable? What sounds

hopeful to you? Is it is it an easier mental load to say, "Oh, yeah, I can just go get a job and grind it out and pay this off." Or is it more does it

feel better to to still own the business

and have a little bit more control over your destiny?

>> I would really love to run my company.

>> Yeah. >> Uh it has less to do with the mental road. I just feel like I'm at a bit of a

a pinch point because the money I'm bringing in with the business just about

if not more than half of it goes directly to trying to pay off uh these this credit card debt.

>> Well, the thing is that's not going to change if you go get another job tomorrow and you make 10K a month, you're still going to need to throw 5, sixk a month at the credit at the debt.

So, how much of this is going to change if you were to close the business tomorrow? Would you be able to sell assets tied to the business? Sell, you know, client list, anything like that that would help you out? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. So, how much could you sell?

Like, what could you net after selling all the stuff, the pieces of the business, whether they're physical or otherwise?

>> I could net around 40,000. >> Okay. >> Well, that's good.

>> So, that gets you a ways into this debt payoff journey. So, that changes it for me. I'm going, "All right, well, you can always start a business later on in life, can't you?" >> Yeah. >> And closing this is fairly simple. Like are there people working for you full-time or is a lot of just 1099 contract work?

>> Uh it's it's only me.

>> Okay. Yeah. I think here's the thing. I

don't want you to look at this like, well, I failed. I'll never try again cuz we believe in small business and we believe in people like you. But there's also nothing wrong in hanging up the hat right now to do what's right for your family and clean up a mess and then restart just with cash debtree emergency fund and move slow into that next business. >> Yeah. And cash flow it as you go. If you if you go back and restart it, what does your wife say, Sam? What does she think?

>> Uh, she wants me to stick with the company. >> She does? Yeah. >> What's her reasoning? >> Yeah.

>> Uh, we're both pretty determined individuals. Uh, we're both the oldest child. And so, we've always just we've

never really had a network of people that support us. >> We found ourselves being very, very self-reliant. And just because things her mentality or our mentality is just because things are hard right now doesn't mean that they'll be hard forever. >> And I I agree with that. Um I have a question. When you said you were throwing 6K of what you're bringing home at the credit cards, is that is the credit cards part of the 70,000 or is that part of the 40,000 of other debt?

>> So that's a good question. So the 70,000

is the business debt under the business credit cards. >> Okay. And then the $40,000 worth of debt

is my personal debt from the credit cards that we've used to try to, you know, pay groceries, pay gas, um as you

know. >> Okay. >> The are you guys able to keep your household afloat with 4K a month?

>> Yes, >> you can. Okay. Okay.

>> And another question is, are you going to go into debt next month to keep this business running?

>> Uh, I don't think so.

Because so far it sounds like you've been using credit cards to keep your personal life afloat and keep the business afloat.

>> So have you stopped using the cards?

>> Yeah. So what happened there is

we were I was running these jobs and things were going smoothly and we were paying off the cards as we were going along and then when everything went south that's when we kind of got stuck.

>> Yeah. >> With the debt. >> Sam, does your wife work at all? Is she bringing home any any money?

She does. Uh she's a director for a marketing agency. How much does she bring? About >> uh about 120. >> Oh my gosh. Okay.

>> You buried the lead there. So you guys are making >> Yeah. Well, I a part of me would say Sam,000.

>> You guys want to stick with the business, but you have to you have to have some hard values around it. Like even if you have to go get a truck, you said we're not going into debt for the truck. We're gonna have figure out a way to save up and pay for the truck. Um, but if you're throwing 6K at this, I'm like, you guys can be out of the business debt and oh my, you know, um,

11 12 months in a year and then throw a bunch of her money at the personal 40,000. You guys could be debtree in two years.

>> Okay. >> Where's her 120 going? What are you guys doing with that income?

>> Uh, that goes to just pay our uh

>> I I'd figure out how to live on 4K and I'd

take $120,000 salary, throw it at this debt, and then an extra 6,000 that you're bringing in. If you guys tighten some stuff, >> you guys need to get on a budget. I think you guys have been spending like you make $240,000.

Start acting like you make $50,000.

>> Yeah. And then you can keep the business, but cut up the credit cards.

Be done with the debt when it comes to the business. Sam [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz. is the number to call. It's8255225.

Samantha is in Honolulu, Hawaii. What's going on, Samantha?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. What's your question today?

>> Um, my question is that me and my husband, we completed FCU last year. Um,

we're currently debtree. We don't own a home. We rent here um in our home state and we have two um little kids. Uh we

combined between both of us we make about like 70 75K a year, but every

month um we're currently on baby step three. Every month we kind of are only living with like $600 left. Um and we

currently uh have like food stamps. we have wick and we are just kind of debating like if it's uh better to move to the mainland to try to you know buy a house um get more income or if we should try to just suffer it out here um because this is where we're from and um where our family's from and we don't want to take our kids away from this but at the same time we're like what kind of um life are we like living if we're like struggling you know.

>> Yeah. So where's all your money going every month? How much is your mortgage?

Um, oh, so we rent here um in Hawaii,

but um it's $1,500 a month. Um, we are

in a one-bedroom. We all like room share. >> Hey, Samantha, do you care? Can you adjust Hey, Samantha, can you adjust your phone? It's kind of popping. Are you able to take it off speaker? Maybe speak a little bit. >> Change it up for us.

>> Okay. Um, here. Is this better?

>> Not quite, but we'll we'll try it out.

Uh, so you have 1,500 in rent. What what's your other big expenses if you had to list out in priority like here's the biggest one, here's the next biggest one. >> So, our daughter goes to private school.

That's 1,100 a month. We also pay $900 a

month for babysitting. And um we uh own

our car, so we don't have a car payment or anything like that. Um but yeah, that's pretty much it. Maybe just like food and a little bit of lifestyle, but for the most part, we're at the beach, so a lot of the stuff is free.

Wow. So, you're on food stamps, but you got a kid in private school. That's pretty wild.

>> Yeah. Just cuz the education here um

isn't the best. And because of her age, she doesn't quite qualify for kindergarten yet. So, for her to be in school, she had to go into private school unless we were going to have her at a babysitter, >> like a daycare.

>> Oh. Um yeah, sorry. Like a daycare.

>> Okay. So, and your other kids in daycare. And so, alto together it's two grand. Wow. What would daycare cost?

>> Um, honestly, I'm I'm not sure. Um, I

didn't look into that. >> And then what are what are each of you making? Because it feels like you're in a very high cost of living area. There should be more than 75K if both of you are working full-time.

>> Um, well, I work part-time um as a flight attendant and then um my husband works full-time.

>> Okay. And what's causing the part-time flight attendant? Are you at home with the kids part of the time? What's going on there?

>> Uh, yeah. I mean, I try to be home um as

much as I can, so I don't work um as

much as I could. Um just because I feel like I I feel bad if I'm gone, you know, for like more than a couple days, like more than two or three nights a week.

>> Well, I think we're going to have to make some hard choices here cuz you're going to feel bad living in a one-bedroom apartment, living on food stamps. So, we have to make some there has to be some give and take here. So, if that means you guys have to move and you can keep your income and move to a lower cost of living area and you Yeah.

And Hawaii is one of the most expensive areas. But to George's point, usually if you offset that, >> I mean, you think of New York, the Bay Area, Southern California, like usually incomes for the most part, you know, for a family, you're going to make more naturally in that job market. And so,

>> um, what what does your husband do?

So he's a furniture installer like um um

technically it's like windows and glass furniture just um yeah like uh he works

for like a small company like a small private company. So he's applied to um change his career and um but we just at

the current moment um he really hasn't gotten anything back because he doesn't have too many like um like no trade like certifications or licensing. Um, so yeah, he's listening to some of the like trade schools here. >> Okay. Uh, how much how much hits your

>> Sorry, it's getting real bad here.

>> Um, real quick, how much hits your checking account every month, Samantha?

>> Um, roughly about like 5,500.

>> 5,500. Okay. Well, you know what I would

tell you guys is what you gave us was about 3500. So, you guys have $2,000 to spare. And that's to pay >> insurance, food, >> everything. Yes. Everything. Um so something's got to give, Samantha. You guys can't um like you said, you're not making any progress. And so um your

rent's not completely out of control, though. I'm like, >> the rent's not the problem. >> No. And and >> it's the mix of the 2,000 bucks going to the kids to get them in school and daycare >> and part-time work.

>> And the part-time work because if we could up the income, we can solve some of this problem. I don't know that we have a much of a solution here for the kids because they're going to be in daycare if you're working. So, I think we got to get you working full-time in order to >> How much do you bring home >> a month?

2,700. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, because I mean you're more than 2,7 by 700 bucks.

>> Yeah. >> Um, >> but I Where would you guys move if you were to move tomorrow?

Um probably to uh the only other state

we have family in is um Colorado. Um and

I think too because we're from this state, we don't know too much about like the seasons. And so I think that's probably been our biggest barrier or like our fear about moving um like driving in the snow or something like that. Um so but no, I I get what you're

saying. I think it's just um upping the income to kind of like make the sacrifice or to try to move.

>> Yeah. I don't there's no magic wands I can think of here to go, well, this is the problem. I mean, the kids are young.

They need to, you know, be in a daycare situation unless you decide to stay home. But again, that doesn't solve the main problem here. You're still going to have a few hundred bucks left over if you're lucky. So, I think we also need to look at the lifestyle choices and make some sacrifices now until husband can get a better job.

Maybe you get a better part-time job or start working full-time, then you'll start to get some breathing room. >> Yeah. Because if you're paying $2,000 for child care full-time, but you're only working part-time, like is there some shifts there just to save some money, just to get any level of traction?

guys are from a high cost of living perspective, um, I think the number one thing is going to be income, Samantha, for you guys. And you know, and it's easy for us to be like, "Yeah, just go ahead and move." move, but you both are from there, which I guess assumes all your family's there. Like, I get that's a big deal. You know what I mean? And so, >> Hawaii to Colorado is a pretty drastic change. >> And moving isn't free. That's going to cost you just to make that giant move.

And you need to make sure you have the income to support Colorado, which not a cheap state to live in if you live in one of the major cities. >> I was going to say Denver is expensive. So, >> Salt Lake City is expensive. >> Yeah, that's in Utah. >> I know. The whole area, it's like anywhere you go out there, these major cities, you think, well, it's the Midwest. >> Those areas are wild. Yeah. No, 100% 100%. But yeah, that $2,000 extra that

you guys have, and when I say extra, there's still stuff to to be paid with it. But I would just I mean, hunker down

as much as you guys can, you know what I mean? Like, where can you cut cost? Um, and live in the reality of the numbers that you're in. I think that's the biggest thing. And you guys are doing that, but it still sounds like you're struggling, which means to me a lot of it is either some of this 2,00 who knows, you know, where it's going. But the biggest the biggest gap to me is income. If you're both working, I mean full-time and a part-time, I would be uh maybe looking for something else.

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Not available in all states. Today's question comes from Kelsey in Georgia.

My mother-in-law gifted silver coins to my husband and I several times over the last few years. We sold the first batches to pay off our debts. She made us promise to keep the last and final batch for when the Sounds like me. For

when the dollar has lost its value in a post optalic world.

>> Wow. >> Currently, silver spot prices are doing very well. And I've been pushing my husband to sell so that we can fully fund our big emergency fund and start investing. He does not want to disobey his mother, but he also is extremely worried about our retirement years. We are in our late 40s and have less than $100,000 in $100,000 in retirement. What

should we do? >> Well, I'll tell you this. There is a much higher chance you will retire broke than there is you're going to need to cash in your silver in the uh apocalypse. So, that's just one man's opinion. I can't prove that to you. Um I

think me mom was very sweet to uh gift you these silver coins, but you're grown adults. You get to choose what you do with the money. And at the heart of this, she's trying to help you guys.

That's the heart of it. She wants to make sure that you're taken care of, that you've got the money you need when you need it. And right now you need it.

This is going to help you to start investing so that you can build exponential wealth with compound growth instead of hanging on to your debts, not having an emergency fund. So if it's me,

I'm I'm going to say sorry, mother-in-law. >> Well, and I would say if she's I don't know if she's given them to you yet because she said she gives them to you every several years. Um that maybe if she says don't you if I give these to you, you cannot sell them. And I would probably just out of respect say, well, if this is a gift, we may choose to do

what's best for our family if we need to. So just like, do you know what you mean? Like maybe there's like a nod to

or I don't know if you owe someone that.

I don't know.

>> I don't know what denomination they grew up in and what they think's going to happen post-apocalypse. That's a whole another story. You know, where are they at on the on the left behind spectrum?

>> Pre-trip, post trip, where are you?

Yeah. No, I I mean, yeah, I think you're

an adult and I don't like a gift with strings attached. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, it just feels weird that she's like still controlling the gift after it's been given. >> And we don't know how much this is.

And she did say it sounds like they have the final batch. They just don't want to sell it cuz they promised her they wouldn't do it until the end of the world, which at that point, how good is your silver coins? You know what? What's that going to do for you?

>> It's always that that's what I always feel like with gold people.

>> Yes. You're like going to go for supplies and actual things, not like little bags of coin. I've got more deer

a deer so we can eat so we can eat.

>> Get some deer meat in a deep freezer with a generator. You'll be way better off with silver coins.

>> Where's the looney when you need him? He would crush this. >> He would love it. Love it. >> He'd be like, "I'm with mother-in-law." >> I always think if you had to have like a small group of people to survive something, if it was like end of the world, who who would you have? Because they have to contribute. Oh yeah.

>> Do you know what I'm saying? >> Yeah. So you're saying I'm useless? >> I would say you and I are useless, George. I don't know. >> Does entertainment value, camaraderie, does that mean nothing to you guys?

>> Just a good community. Just like keep the keep the vibe good.

>> Keep the morale up. That's a big deal.

>> Deloney brings the deer meat.

>> Yeah. >> Ken will play pickle ball. I think Jade and Deloney would be our saving gra.

>> I think they would help out a lot.

>> Oh man, thanks for the question.

>> Ryan is in Charlotte up next. What's going on, Ryan? How can we help?

>> Ryan, are you with us?

>> Uh, yes. Can you hear me now? >> Yeah. What's your question? >> Okay, awesome. Um, well, I appreciate you taking my call. I hope you guys are doing well today. Um, do you want me to get straight to the question or do you want a little bit of a backstory that leads up to the question? >> What's your What's your question? Let's just hear that first and foremost.

>> Um, I am about to be going through a separation. Um >> Oh, I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, I appreciate it. Um, my my wife uh

doesn't want anything to do with my business. Um, she wants a a payout of

150,000 to walk away. Um, and I have a

couple different options. I'm not sure which what's the best. Um, I can give her all of my IRA, which will cover most of it, and then I can refile the rest.

>> How did she get to 150,000? Was that was that within I have you guys gone through

>> uh lawyers and attorneys and that's what you after the assets are divided like what how where is this number coming from? >> Uh we have yes um that's basically um

half the equity in our home and property. >> Okay, gotcha. >> Uh she started out at wanting 60 and then she wanted 80 and then she wanted 100 and then you know which is fine. I mean you know we're married she's entitled to have you know regardless of the situation but um >> who's keeping the house?

I I am trying my best to because it the

land was given to us by some of my family in which we turned around the following year and we built a you built a house on it. Okay. Um >> so to to get her out um the like the 150

is the equity her remaining half of the equity in the home. >> That's correct. That's correct. Yes.

Yes. Um and of course the land ties on

to the rest of our our family's property. So, >> sure. >> I I don't want to sell it, but I'm afraid I may have to if I don't give her

my full IRA.

>> Um, which >> Could you take could you um Is the house

How much is left on the house to pay off? >> Um, like 145.

>> Okay. >> Have you considered a cash out refi on the house to give her the money?

>> Um, I have. The only issue with that is

um I have recently sold a company that I started back in 2019 and I've started a

new company and I don't I from what I've

been hearing I'm I'm going have a hard time getting getting a big refi because

I don't have um >> proof of income for a long enough period of time. >> Yeah. >> How much cash do you have? Like if you liquidated anything nonretirement, how much could you come up with?

Um, I mean, I've got a couple pieces of

equipment. Um, I without touching our

savings, which she also wants half of that. Um, I could probably come up with 4550,000, but then that's going to that's going to hurt me from a continuing a continuing on business with

Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, it just to see even if you don't have fees with this IRA transfer, if you do a direct IRA transfer, that's going to be way better than just, you know, withdrawing that money.

>> Yeah. I've >> So, if she's wanting straight cash, don't do that from your retirement.

>> Yeah. You want straight cash. You don't really want it any other way >> because that's going to crush you. That's like taking out a loan at, you know, 35%.

>> Exactly. Yeah. I've got I've got 113,000 in my IRA. I know it's not much, but after everything she'll be getting like 72, >> but then you're restarting from zero and losing all of that growth on 100. If you plug that into a investment calculator over the next 20 years, you're not giving her 113 grand. You're giving her a million plus. >> Yeah. And my my guy says in 30 years by

the time I'm I'm 66, it'll be roughly about 2.3 or so. >> Exactly. And so I would I would be working with with your attorney to fight against this >> and make sure that we do this in a smart way that doesn't destroy you for the rest of your life because that's what it sounds like she's trying to do. I don't know. >> Well, no. No, she's not being >> She just wants half of it, you know.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's not She's not being mean about it or anything. She just wants half of, you know, half of the >> Right. I mean, that's that is the >> In that case, I would sell the house, man. I know it hurts. >> I know, Ryan. I'm so sorry.

>> Yeah. financially on mathematically it makes way more sense to let go of the of the house >> the sentimental values tougher for sure.

Um >> yeah. Yeah, it is. And I mean I I've I've definitely thought about that and I'm I'm not you know 100% against it. I just know that when I do sell that property. Um >> how much do you make a year?

>> Um with the new business um which which

I've only been doing for a few months, I've been netting like 10,000 a month.

>> Okay. I would also see if you could work out like a structured pay. >> Yeah, that's what I was going to say. You don't want to you don't want to go on forever and ever paying her, but I wonder if there's ways that you can liquidate some stuff, give her a little bit of a lump sum and then be paying her

some. You know what I mean? To be able to do both if you can. But I would sell the house before cashing out the IRA just from a mathematical standpoint.

>> Man, but that's really hard, Ryan. I'm sorry. That's the heartbreak of divorce.

It's a it's a relational obviously complete >> turns into a messy business transaction.

>> Yes. And then all of it. So so sorry you guys are going through this.

Here

are the top questions people have about online wills. Number one, how do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? Well, in general terms, if your estate is worth less than a million bucks, getting a will online is probably a great option for you. What do I need to start my will?

Well, you got to figure out who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your minor children?

And number three, is an online will legally valid? Yes, but it's got to be state specific to match the laws of your state. And finally, why would I want an online will versus going traditional uh you know, with a lawyer in person? Well, it's less expensive, more convenient, takes less time to set up than a traditional will. So, go to ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz to find out if an online will is right for you. Jim is in Denver up next. Jim,

welcome to the show.

>> Thanks for taking my call. Um, so my wife is considering a career change, but we've been trying to decide if it makes sense and if it's worth it. Uh, she makes about $85,000 now working in project management for philanthropy, and she's interested in going into midwiffrey. Uh, it would mean her potentially not being able to work for a couple of years, so lost income, but she potentially would make more on the other side of that.

Where are you guys at financially? What do you make?

>> So, I make about 205,000 a year.

>> Awesome. >> Um, we're in baby step four, five, and six. Uh, so we have six months saved and we don't have any debt. Uh, we just bought a house about a year ago, so we don't have a huge amount of equity in our house.

So, it does feel like we'd need to, it would be a a stretch to to make it on one income for that time and tightening the budget and I'd need to, you know, sell some stock and things to to be able to uh cash flow it. But it does seem possible. It just feels like something where you know getting up that income over that two and a half to three years and then um you know but potentially making >> 60,000 more a year on the other side of that is kind of what we're trying to weigh.

don't know the answer to this. That's why I'm asking you when she goes to school for that to be a midwife is it

from a schedule perspective she can't work at all?

probably for part of it she'd be able to work, but for some of it probably she'd not be able to work. It's it's full-time for at least I think for maybe the first year of it she could probably work, but there'd be like a two-year gap or so where she wouldn't be able to work to my understanding so far. >> Okay. Because she probably has to do to get the certification, I guess, is is what she's going for, right?

>> Just a heavy heavy study load and labs and >> spending time in a clinic and that sort of thing.

So right now it looks like the program itself is like about 50,000 and then there'd be some prerex you would have to do. Um so I think all told like conservatively we're thinking like 70,000. Um so it's 70,000 and then plus

the lost earnings for at least probably about two years >> and you guys can cash flow that >> I believe. So I think it'd be tight but I think we can cash flow it. And I think we we have some I have some stock I have

through work that I think I can sell as I go that I think I could use to pay for it. >> Okay. Um >> so it's like that there's the tradeoff of like that could also be going towards wealth building and she could just keep her current job. But I think this is something where >> she wants she just done with project management.

Her heart's not in it.

>> I I think she if she found a different job she could still enjoy it. her current job she's really not enjoying right now. And so it's it's really she's kind of said, I I know I want to leave the job I'm in right now. Maybe I'd go someplace else and I'd make more money and enjoy it more and be fine and don't need to do this. But this does feel like maybe it's good time to reconsider her career options and think about it.

>> Okay. Well, the only thing I don't like

about the equation is just that she's running from something she doesn't like to something new. um versus if because

you from what you just said and again correct me because if this is her passion and this is what she wants to do is help deliver babies then I would say this is why you guys do the baby steps you know what I mean you get to like you get to make calls in your life and you get to change things and that's amazing >> um so that's just her her dying passion but what you just said kind of was I was like oh where she's like no I still like project management I just don't like my current job so if I changed jobs I probably may not want to be a midwife so I'm like Okay.

would make sense to just try that first

>> and see if that scratches the itch because you're at least getting away from what you don't like. Um, versus having to go through a two and a half year and to your point, you know, all of it. But again, I say that with a caveat, unless she says, "No, I want to be a midwife. This is what I want to do.

It's my passion. It's my love." Then I would say go for it and you guys, it's going to be, you know, a tight two years. Like I think that's great because she's doing what she loves, >> but she also loves project management. So, >> and you may not be able to ROI all the math on paper.

I can tell you're an analytical kind of nerdier guy like me and you're like, well, I want to make it make sense on paper, >> right? >> Yes.

If she stayed in her current job at her current earnings, it can pay off, but it would take like six or eight years or something and then there's risk with any new study and all that. But I get the point you're making, which is stop trying to overanalyze it. So add into your equation her joy and see where that takes it because then it just breaks the math and you go, "Well, okay, I guess screw my math.

And so I'm not worried about the finances. Now, the mortgage side, if you could sell your stocks, maybe you do a lump sum payment and recast the mortgage if the actual monthly payment is is stretching you guys, that might help you out mathematically to stomach this in

your budget. Cuz what's your mortgage payment right now?

>> Uh, it's about five >> 5,000. And your take-home if just your takehome is what?

>> Just my takehome is uh 10 and a half to 11. That's the part that scares me about >> because then your your mortgage payment is eating up about half of your take-home pay. Now, that's without, you know, your investing and health care premiums and other things. >> Well, and it's for a per it's only for a two-year period. Yes. Like, yeah.

>> To your point, can we stomach half our mortgage, you know, take-home pay being swallowed up by the mortgage?

>> Maybe. I also think the recast could help you there where you take a lump sum of, you know, 40,000 from the stocks you sell, apply it to your principal, recast it, now your payment is three grand a month. Yeah. >> 3500 a month. And I'll say it again cuz it's in my head. I'm like, this is a this is a lot of things changing and moving for the fact that she just doesn't like her current job.

>> So, >> right, >> again, I would have that conversation with her for sure. Just that >> it I mean, honestly, if she's as happy at both, it's just easier to go find another project manager job and she's still happy. You know what I >> mean? There's project managers making $150,000 >> and so if the money is the thing that's alluring of like, well, I could make more. I'd feel more valued. Let's at least explore that. Yeah. Yep.

>> But if it's just, hey, you could pay me a half a million and project management would not be it. Well, then we know.

>> Yeah. But that's not it, though. Cuz I think Yeah. So >> that's what I'm saying.

If it's just not it, no matter what the money is or what the company is. >> Yeah. But no, but she's saying she enjoys project management. She just doesn't like her current job.

So >> there's 17 things I can enjoy. So it's just like we can't just flippingly jump from thing to thing. Make >> That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

So >> make it a hobby. Maybe she becomes a doula on the side and it's not going to pay as much, but she still gets to be a part of the process and and support, you know, moms and that could be a cool thing. So maybe there's other avenues to do this. >> Yeah.

Yeah.

Yes. Um and I would make all these changes and all of what we're talking about, it's just a lot of work and time

if it's not the thing that she's just dying to do, if she would still be content doing project management with another company. So, I would push on that. >> Make sure it's the dream and brings the joy before going in on the adventure.

>> 100%. That's a great way. >> And then stop doing the math because you probably won't work it out. >> Yeah. How old are you guys, Jim?

>> Uh, we're both 37.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> Perfect. So, if she even waits a year, but by the time she's 40, 41, she still gets to do this. That's why I'm a little bit tempted for her to just find something else and see if she still enjoys project management at somewhere else cuz she may may love a company and

um and that be fulfilling to her and and

that she's great and content, you know what I mean? Um >> right. >> So, I don't know.

>> Either way, I think we're on our eat, Pray, Love journey here, trying to find the next thing for her and I'm very hopeful she'll find it. She's got a great husband who's very supportive.

You've got a great career. You guys have done a great job financially to set yourself up to have this kind of flexibility, to have the options, to do something that it doesn't make sense on paper mathematically and yet you can still go, "Yes, we're doing this." That's financial peace. >> Yep. I think whatever she's feeling the most where she wants to be.

>> So Rachel, if you were going to, you know, drop this gig and go do something else, meteorologist,

>> what would you be doing?

>> Uh, I would be a uh political correspondent for a solid.

>> Yeah. What about you? >> Anything that doesn't require me to go back to school. That is I think I just I'm not studying again.

>> I will not purchase a textbook for some insane price. I will not sit in a classroom. >> I'm with you. >> I don't want to turn in a paper. >> Nothing wants me to be like, "Oh, I want to go back and get a MBA." I'm like, I'm

good.

Our

scripture of the day. Proverbs 13:11, "Dishonest money dwindles away, but whoever gathers money little by little makes it grow." One of my favorites.

Milton Freriedman said, "Nobody spends somebody else's money as carefully as he spends his own." That'll preach, Milton.

>> Well said, Milton.

>> Jenna is up next in Orlando, Florida.

Jenna, how can we help today?

>> Yes. Hi, good afternoon. Um, thank you guys for all you do. Um, so my husband and I are pretty new in discovering the

uh Dave Ramsey way and learning about paying off debt. So we have quite a

large amount of debt. We've processed

it. We've gone through the emotions as far as having that much debt and probably mistakes that we have made. Um, we have between mortgage, uh, student

loans, cars, we have over a million dollars. So really what we've been currently doing is just trying to >> Would you say a million, Jenna? Did you say a million?

>> Over a billion. Yes. Between mortgage, student loan. >> Okay.

>> Cars, everything. >> Um, >> so what we've been doing is we've been

doing like uh $500 a week into our high yield savings account. Just really trying to save while trying to pay off

bills, but we just don't know.

I guess we're not sure what to do >> as far as how can you um >> can you how much is the mortgage of the million?

>> It is 525. >> 525. So it's half of it. Okay. So what's the rest? The rest is consumer. So half a million in consumer debt. What does that consist of?

>> So 4475 is my husband's student loan.

>> Whoa. Doctor, lawyer?

>> He is. Yes, he is a physician.

>> Physician. How much does he make a year?

So he currently makes 250.

>> Okay. How much do you make?

>> I make 70.

>> Okay. Is his income

pretty steady there or is he see like how how long has he been out of medical school?

>> He has been out of medical school 10 years now. So we've made the mistakes

big purchases, things like that. So we've practiced that. So now we're trying to see kind of how to tackle everything. >> Okay. Well, so so it's it's basically a student loan and a mortgage is what you're saying. >> Yes. Oh, he also we have 26 left on his car >> and then a car. Okay.

>> And then we've been working on getting the credit cards down. So we may have a,000 to 2,000 on the credit card. So that could easily be >> um done here shortly. Um so that's really not the concern. >> Where is your savings at? You said you've been putting 500 a month towards high yield savings. How much do you have in there? >> Yes. So, we are currently at 74,000 in

our high yield. >> 74,000.

>> Good job. Okay. Well, great. Well, that's going to be cleaning up all this stuff. So, tonight I would pay off the credit card and the car >> with that. >> Are you going to do that, Jenna?

>> Or is he going to do that? >> Yeah, we are. I mean, we we weren't sure

to just completely deplete that to pay off the debt cuz >> Yeah, since you're new to this, let's just recap so we're we're clear on on understanding the baby step. So baby step one is a $1,000 starter emergency fund. You guys have long surpassed that, which is great. And then baby step two is to attack all of your consumer debt using the debt snowball method.

So smallest to largest balance, ignore the interest rates, just attack the little one with a vengeance, make minimum payments on the rest.

>> Okay? But the good news is that clears a bunch of debts and a bunch of payments for you guys, >> right? I guess the next question is because my husband, he's kind of on the opinion just let's just throw everything into savings and do minimum on the student loans and the mortgage because I guess that's just overwhelming at those numbers or do we stop the savings and just >> stop all savings? You'd even stop all investing.

So if he has if you either of you have a company retirement account you're putting money into even for a match, just pause.

>> So, here's here's what's crazy, Jenna.

So, here I just want to give you a little picture, okay? If you guys went all in and actually did the baby steps, the way we teach, you do exactly what we

say. Okay, that means from what I'm gathering from the car and the credit card, it's 28,000 for what you guys have

saved. Um, basically, if you you'll have

45,000 left in savings. You throw that at the student loan, you'll have four $435,000 left of the student loan. What you guys make 340 a year. If you guys lived, and I'm going to give you a kush number, and I don't even want it to be this much. If you lived on a $100,000 a year, which I want you to live on even less, then that means you guys could could literally put $240,000 towards the student loan every single year, you guys could have this paid off in two years.

>> Two two years, Jenna. Year and a half.

you actually lived on like 70,000. Do what? >> I said we get overwhelmed when we run the numbers ourselves. So, hearing you say >> the problem is you guys are attempting to do a lot of good things all at once instead of just putting all of your focus and intensity toward those debts using the debt snowball. And Rachel's right. I mean, we're talking 24 maybe

maybe two and a half years max. You're done totally with >> you're done totally. And then the other crazy thing which again I want you to still after that I want you to build up an emergency fund and invest and all of it but I mean if you guys lived on $100,000 you guys could have your house paid off in another three years.

wonderful lifestyle nice house nice car.

>> Yeah. Everything's been great and and and if you want to keep myself.

>> Yeah. And if you want to keep paying minimum payments on the student loans and all of that stuff, you will be exactly where you are in five years.

Nothing will have changed. Nothing will have changed. So unless you want a different outcome, you have to do something different. And so I mean, man, if I was y'all in a heartbeat, in a heartbeat, I would do this.

>> And I'm giving you a hundred grand to live on. So >> very generous. >> Very generous. I would even go less. I would I would try to do 70 or whatever, right? So, um I mean seriously, if you guys go scorched earth, you could have you could be completely debtree in four and a half, five years. >> I love this plan. There's a lot of hope in this situation if you follow the baby steps. >> Yes, absolutely. >> All right, let's squeeze one more in here from David in Salt Lake City.

David, get right to the question if you could.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. Um I just had a quick question. Um, we've got 69,000 left on

our home that we purchased in 2017

and we have the cash to pay this now, but my question is, should we pay it

now? I I understand like I I want the peace from having it paid, but from a tax perspective, we're kind of in this tax game of like um trying to avoid

paying a bunch of taxes this year because the business did really well.

So, I'm wondering if I should pay this now or wait until like the beginning of the new tax year and if that would be advantageous. >> Call me stupid, but I don't understand what the tax purpose is of waiting to pay off your home.

>> So, if we if we spend that uh or put that 69,000,

it's counted as taxable income if I'm

not correct. Whereas, put that in like a 401k or something. That way it's not t

it's tax deferred. >> Is this money in savings right now?

>> Yeah, it's just in a in a a checking. So

we have a high yield savings and then we have a checking where it's just sitting.

>> You're not going to be taxed on that.

>> You're you're taxed in a high yield. But that's I mean >> if you were like selling off an asset and you had capital gains, there would be taxes. But if you're saying this money is already liquid in a checking or savings account, pay off the house today. It's not going to affect your taxes.

>> Sorry. It's in my business checking. So, it's not like taxable income yet, I guess. >> I mean, if that money sitting in your checking tax >> I mean, are you going to itemize deductions?

It I don't think this is going to affect your taxes. You can talk to a tax bro to double check, but I don't understand how using money from business checking. It's still your money. >> Are you saying it's technically like you're going to be it's going to be earned income?

you've made an extra 70,000

>> and so you would technically >> whereas if we put 70,000 in a in our

401k or we we have like a independent

401k so we can put in a larger amount that way it's tax deferred um but yeah I I just I don't know

>> well for the taxes I mean it'd be what like eight I mean if you were to pay taxes on that 70 on that 69 yeah I mean

it'd be what like six I Yeah, I think we're this is a lot of a lot of girration. I would just pay it off and yeah, you might have some extra tax taxes on that extra income, but I

don't think it's worth just waiting till the new year. And I mean, it just feels like a some tax hacks that you're working on here. I think the peace of mind and a freed up payment will do you way better. So, that's what I would personally do. I don't worry about making too much money. I would just call it income, pay off the mortgage, and move on with my life, my friend. Way to go.

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## 263. You Can’t Win With Money Until You Decide What Matters Most | March 24, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey, Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author and host of the Front Row Seat.

Fabulous show on Ramsey Network that's blowing up. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

The call is free and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

Lacy is in Seattle. Hey Lacy, what's up?

>> Hey. So, my husband and I are kind of

looking for a little bit of an outside perspective on a situation we're having.

>> Okay. >> So, uh my in-laws, his parents, helped us with the down payment on our house.

And now we're receiving a lot of on my end unsolicited financial advice about debts

and what we're doing with our money and

I guess I just want to know how much influence I should allow them to have

in what we're doing with our finances as a unit, the two of us.

>> I don't know why they would have any.

Do you have Do you owe them Do you owe them the money back? Did they loan you the money?

>> Yeah, well, they have a weird kind of situation. They've done this with his um my husband's sister as well. They kind of use it as a business transaction with their kids. So, they'll help with the down payment on the house and in the future when the house is sold, they would get their down payment back and a certain percent of whatever

uh profit we would make on the house.

>> Oh, that was stupid. You shouldn't have done that.

>> I know. >> That's horrible.

What an abusive mess.

>> Yeah. >> How much money did they give you?

>> They put $300,000 down on the house.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. >> And how much is your mortgage?

>> Uh our mortgage is about 2650

monthly. >> So you borrowed 250,000?

>> Yeah, uh we borrowed it from them about

the 3000 300,000 that they put down.

>> Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't think it I didn't think that was a loan. I thought it had to only be repaid at sale. Are you paying payments to them?

>> No, we're we're we're not paying payments to them. >> Okay, do you have a mortgage in addition to them?

Other than other than the in-laws, do you have a mortgage?

>> No. >> Okay. So you they paid cash for this house. So you bought a $300,000 house.

>> The house is uh worth $800,000.

And they put 300 down for us.

And we are paying the remainder of the

mortgage. >> So you have a mortgage other than the in-laws, a $500,000

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

And your household income is what?

>> Um it's about 80,000

between the two of us. My numbers fluctuate a bit, but my husband's is 50k

and mine's about 30.

>> So you also bought a house you can't afford.

>> Yeah. I mean >> Your payment is Your payment's what? 30% or 40% of your take home pay, right?

>> It's about that, >> Yeah.

You guys are not going to do anything I tell you to do, I can tell.

Um but um >> We can just do >> You you bought a house that you can't afford and you bought it on terms with the in-laws that are absolutely cray-cray

ridiculous.

And you've got a mortgage you can't afford. So that you're you're not going to do this, but what you should do is sell the house.

And you get out of both problems, the mortgage you can't afford and the in-laws that you can't afford.

>> And this this was kind of sold to us on in like a dreamscape, like we'll we'll

do this for you guys so you guys can stay in town. They want us close to them. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

>> We're going to help you. >> You can't afford the house.

That's not a dreamscape, that's a nightmare. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> It's a nightmare.

You're broke and they helped you get broker.

They helped you I bet they co-signed on this loan, didn't they?

>> Yeah. Well, it's technically a lease-to-own situation until we start >> It's in their name?

>> The house is in their name?

>> Yes. >> Honey.

Okay. So um Mom and Dad, we don't want the house. We can't afford it.

We're you know, so we need to put the house on the market so you can get your money back out.

Cuz we can't we can't pay this.

>> And what if they don't want to do that?

How do we >> It's their problem cuz you can't afford it.

>> Right. >> Yeah. But you're not going to do that cuz your your husband's told He's totally bought into this crazy family.

It's dysfunctional. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He's He's totally on You Yeah. These people are not a blessing, they're a problem.

I don't know what to tell you, honey, but if I were you, I would get out of that as fast as like my hair was on fire. There's just everything everything you every time you you bury the lead to start with, you didn't buy a house.

Hello. You're renting a house.

And your landlord is interfering in your personal life. Well, no duh.

These people like control. They got their fingers in everything.

>> Yeah, I mean, it this is again, parents don't do this stuff, please.

>> You're not being a blessing, you're being a blight. >> It's it's it's absolutely right. You're trapping this poor couple. By the way, the whole house was just a carrot to get

them to stay locally. And that's the real freaky scary thing here. And this is tough for her because if husband doesn't step up, she's stuck. >> He's not going to step up. He's not going to step up. He's He's got to rewrite the script in his mind that his parent his parents who are such philanthropists are actually a curse.

>> Yeah. >> And he'd have to rewrite his script to be to be able to sell this house, and he's not going to do it. And and instead, what's going to end up happening is this is going to end up in divorce or bankruptcy or both because this is not going to end well.

It's not going to end well.

This is these numbers are horrendous.

And so So, here's an idea.

Don't accept gifts that aren't really gifts.

Number one. Number two, when you buy a house and it's not in your name, you didn't buy a house. Someone else bought a house.

Hello. Number three, rent to own is not

owning, it's renting.

Okay? I mean, let's just use the words the way they're supposed to be used and and and get it out from under dreamscape.

Shoot me.

Oh my god.

There's nothing good about This is such a dysfunctional mess.

The poor girl, bless her heart. Oh man, I can't even imagine. The last thing I want to do with my kids is to put this many wedges in between me and them. And because I got to tell you where I was on Saturday afternoon, I was sitting on my daughter's back porch eating hamburgers that my son-in-law cooked and everybody was there. All the kids, all the grandkids, all 16 of us were back there and we had no discussions like this. >> Right. >> At all. >> That's true. >> None. None ya. None ya.

I don't even get to choose what where we're having dinner. I just have to go where I'm told. >> That's exactly >> So, I mean >> That's the truth. >> It's not It's not even close to me having control of that. Wow.

Scary crap. Scary crap. People don't do

scary crap with your kids and then expect them to be hanging around with you loving grandpa.

It's not how it works.

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Jason's in Las Vegas. Hi, Jason. How are you?

>> I'm doing well, sir. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I'm having a little dilemma. Um, I have some money saved, and I was thinking of potentially taking out an auto loan. Although, I had just had a car last year that I was able to sell for positive equity, and I used that positive equity to buy a motorcycle.

But, now that I'm situated where I'm in Las Vegas, the summer's right around the corner, if not here. It's starting to heat up. I definitely need to get a car with air conditioning because riding around is kind of killing me, and I'm sweating a lot. But, I also don't want to fall into a trap where, you know, I'm stuck with a car payment because I'm not a huge fan of payments. I try to minimize them the best I can.

>> How old are you? 22?

>> I'm 32. >> 32? Really? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay.

Wow. All right. And what do you make a year, sir?

>> Uh anywhere from 45 to 55,000.

>> What do you do?

>> I'm in the hospitality industry.

>> Okay. In Vegas, no kidding. Okay.

Um all right.

Well, um you're obviously new to our stuff and to this show.

Um we teach people the shortest method

to wealth is to get out of debt and stay out of debt because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income. If you take the average car payment of $700 a month and then you invested that from age 32 to age 67,

uh you'd have over $7 million. That's what the car payment costs you.

And if you want to ensure that you stay at the middle-class level or lower of wealth, uh keep a car payment your whole life. And that will that will make sure that you stay there. And so that's, you know, that that's the framework that you walked into with this question. Um and so what is the motorcycle worth?

>> Um I would say anywhere from 4 to 5,000.

>> Okay. All right. And I'm assuming you have no I'm assuming you have no money.

>> Well, I have about 12 to 13,000 saved.

>> In what?

>> Just bank account. And then I do have a small like IRA, but I don't I had to

withdraw a lot of it during the COVID pandemic, so it's not as much as it was

before, but I'm slowly trying to build it back up. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, um I mean you had your little run with the motorcycle and it worked out for a while and then the heat comes up in Vegas and it's time to get a air conditioner. That's logical. Makes sense. You kind of knew that was coming.

You If you didn't see it coming, there's something wrong with you.

Um it gets hot there in the summer. And so uh the uh what what I do if I were in your shoes giving you the outline I just gave you, the best way to build wealth is to avoid payments and you need an air conditioner, I would sell the motorcycle. I'd take 5,000 of my 12,000 and I'd buy a $10,000 car for cash.

And have no payments. >> actually. >> Yeah, pretty good idea. That's why I have a show. Yeah.

>> Or my other idea was just thug it out

with the motorcycle and then use what I would be making if I were to take out a car loan and just invest it in an index fund and then just let it grow.

>> I'm sorry, not You mean borrow on a car so that you can invest?

>> No, no, no. I'm saying like instead of getting the car like I originally, you know, thought about doing. >> Oh, just stick it out and just be sweaty.

>> Just be sweaty and then just keep, you know, using the money like the five to $700 I would be making for that car payment and just, you know, continue >> Yeah, you're not going to have a car payment though cuz you're going to pay cash for a $10,000 car.

>> Right. >> Yeah. >> Well, but then that would deplete a lot of my savings. >> Oh, deplete 5,000. You'll have 7,000 left and you got no payments.

And remember you called No payments, you can If no payments, you can actually build wealth. >> But the sweating you have to decide, am I going to tough it out with a motorcycle or do I not want to sweat very much? >> But I'm not There's no $500 car payment in the equation here. None.

No no car payment at all in the equation. Um If you're asking us, I mean, that's what I would do if I was 32 and I lived in Las Vegas and I was single and I made $45,000 a year.

Um I'm getting an air conditioner to start with and I'm, you know, >> And then build the emergency fund next.

>> Yeah. >> Right? >> And then and then I'm going And then I'm going building some wealth, and you know, work more, make more.

>> Work more, make more. What's the path to six figures, you know, in hospitality?

Or if it's not the path there, you don't want to be in hospitality, decide what is it that I want to do, and start to get very intentional at 32.

Um the good news is you've avoided a lot of crazy debt at this point. Bad news is you don't have a plan, and we do have a plan. So, welcome to the show and the baby steps, but uh uh all you got to do is walk this out, you know. >> What what you're going to be have trouble doing because you've done a lot of stuff um in your life to date on a whim, on impulse, is you're going to have trouble avoiding impulse if you don't set this in stone right now and say, "I am not going into debt, and I'm going to go pay cash for a car." You're going to wander onto a car lot, and some Porsche is going to wink at you, and you're going to leave with an $800 car payment.

That's what's going to happen. She she's going to flirt with you, and then you're done. >> Yeah. >> Uh so, you've got to be careful.

Uh it's happened to me.

I'm I can't I can't walk by a nice car. They're hard they're hard I like I love a good car, but um yeah. But it's it it'll kill you. It's the biggest thing that we all buy in America that goes down in value.

And they go down in value like a rock. A new car loses 70% of its value in the first 4 years.

That's turning 30,000 bucks

into you know, just a few thousand dollars in a heartbeat.

And um I mean, think about it. It how fast I mean, they go down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy got that, like a rock. And so, I mean, it's just crazy, y'all. And you just you got to be careful with these things. They're cars are something you consume only when you have extra money around.

And you know, a situation like that young man's in, he does not have extra money around.

And you're right, Ken. A a whole series of intentionality moves on his part

would make the next 5 years of his life completely different. >> No question. >> We can't wander from thing to thing impulsively. It doesn't work. AJ's in Gainesville, Florida. Hi AJ, what's up?

>> Hey, how's it going, guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Hey, so um I'm in my late 20s. Um we me

and my wife we bought a house uh we just closed on our first house in September.

Um and we got our first baby on the way.

She's due in May. >> Yay!

>> Yeah, so so we just finished baby step three, working on on baby step four now.

Um and so I guess my question for you is um I've been working for about the last 6 months now I've been working uh two jobs. Um my wife works full-time also. We're just trying to uh you know, grind a little bit while we can. Um and I work 7 days a week, 60 hours a week. >> What are you doing with all the money?

>> Uh saving it uh currently. Um you said we are >> You're out of debt?

>> Yes, yes. We are we are we are on baby step three right now. >> Oh, okay, good. Okay. >> Yeah. Um so my question is do we uh we're trying to decide if when the baby comes if I continue working both jobs so that my wife can stay at home um or if it's more beneficial for our family uh for me to cut that uh cut back the second job and then she goes back to work full-time as well uh and put the baby in daycare.

>> I don't think that's happening, dude.

Do you?

Uh you you see her sitting with a brand new baby in her lap going back to work when she doesn't have to?

>> No. No, not that's why we are >> Yeah. Yeah, our our our our um you know, the debate is >> But you bought a house you can't afford unless one of you unless you work two jobs or she works one.

>> No, no, no, sir, not at all.

>> Okay, so what's the Why can't both of you Why can't both of you quit? I mean, you go down to one job.

Can't live on your job?

>> Uh no, we need at least two incomes.

>> I know. Why? House payment, right? You don't have any debt.

>> Right.

>> So, you bought a house you can't afford on your income.

>> Right, yeah. Cuz we we saw this household income, so yeah. >> Yeah. So, there's a third option.

You know, you know, all right, we can't live here, but I can work 40 hours, and you can stay home. And we have to live someplace else.

That's another option.

Mhm.

You're making choices.

You're working to buy a house is what you're working for. That's what it Not not to live, but to buy that house.

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Ashley is in Boston. Hey Ashley, what's up?

>> Uh hi Dave. Hi hi Ken.

Um thanks for taking my call today.

>> Sure, what's up? >> Um So, uh sorry if I get a little emotional, um, but uh we've been in storm and stork

mode for a year and a half and we just aren't really sure what to do next.

>> Okay. So, that means you have a baby on the way.

>> Um, well, he he's here.

>> Okay, good. >> Um >> When was he born? >> Um, he was born in the beginning of October.

>> Right, how's he doing? >> But Um, he he's having a lot of medical challenges. Um, it was a uh we both were almost lost during birth.

Um, so it's been a really difficult recovery. Uh we're both still in the hospital pretty much every week.

>> Wow. >> Um >> From what? >> So Um, there's a variety of things. For me it's a lot of physical issues, um, related to the birth and some complications. And for him there's um a variety of things, uh neurological, his um feeding and his intestines and GI. Um,

on Friday we had to go because he

stopped breathing and I found out that that's just part of his conditions. Um

So, it's uh >> So, what what do you guys I mean, you've been through hell since October?

This is not >> Uh even even the October before that, um, when I was laid off from my long-term job.

>> Mhm. >> Um, so it's it's been a yeah.

It's been a while. >> Yeah, so what does your husband make?

>> Um, he has a full-time job and side

hustles and his full-time job is sales and so he makes at least 55 a year.

Um some months we're up to 8,000 from

his income alone.

Um and then side hustles >> Mhm. >> a lot of um reselling and um he does

Lizard things and dump things like that as well. >> Okay. All right.

And so since October you've been down for the count for sure. I mean you're just trying to >> Yeah. >> try try to heal and and get baby healed and and get back to some level of normal, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> And what did you used to make back in the day?

>> At my previous long-term job, I made

65,000 a year.

>> Mhm. >> And then um the job that I started before I went on maternity leave, um I was making a It was estimated to be

about 40,000 a year.

>> Okay. And the um And how much debt have you guys got?

>> Um well, we currently have

um I'm sorry, is it okay if I break it down by like credit cards and stuff?

>> Sure. Sure. >> Um any credit cards totals based on the credit report, it's about 30,000. Um I'm

reaching out to request details um as a lot of them have been sold off to debt collectors. >> Mhm. >> We have a car that we owe 12,300

on. The online payoff amount shows 12,200.

I think most of the interest was front-loaded. >> Mhm. >> But it's worth about 6 to 8,000 private party sale due to um damage and mileage.

>> We have a home. Um our debt on the home

is uh just under 347,000.

>> Mhm. What's the house worth?

>> selling Um, we had it listed >> Mhm. >> and the only interest that we had was

um, for under 370,000 and they wanted us to cover >> What did the real estate agent think the house was worth?

>> Um, he thought it was worth 369,000.

>> No. >> a older home with a >> No, the only interest you had was at 370.

What did you have it listed at?

>> to 375. >> Okay. All right. Okay.

So, you don't have much equity. Okay.

All right. So, what I'm always looking at when I'm in a situation like you're in is there are some things I can't control and there are some things I can control.

And I get anxiety mostly not from the things I can't control but the things I can and I'm not.

And so, what I'm starting to look at is, okay, what can I what can I control in this situation? What can you do? You can't control the baby's health. That's up to God and the doctors, right?

You can't control your health exactly other than the things you have to follow the doctor's directions on in both cases, the baby and you, right?

And that's okay. That's okay. It's not good. It's not fun. But that's that's not that's not anything you can do about that. You can't wave a wand and, you know, fix that. Agreed?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's going to take a minute. Give yourself a little grace and give yourself time time to heal. And so forth. Your Your sounds like he's an excellent man. I love this guy. He just What did he do?

He went to work and made sure his family had money.

Wow. >> He goes above and beyond. >> Yeah, he does. I like this guy a lot.

He's a good man.

All right, cool.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were going to make another point. I Well, listen, this is all you can't control is his effort, right? So, he's going to keep working. Can he get better paying gigs?

We're selling everything. We're going to try to whittle this thing down and get some momentum. Right now, with all the health stuff, uh it has exacerbated all of the financial stress. And Dave just did a great job of of really laying this out.

You've got to make that switch uh to the best of your ability, mentally and emotionally, to focus on what we can control. So, how can we begin to chip away? We're upside down in the car.

We need the car. Uh so >> It's not out of control. >> It's not completely out of control. That's doable.

So, really, how do we begin to get some real momentum uh through additional income, doubling down on the budget, making sure that we are only doing what we have to do right now. And uh you know, your husband again is doing the right thing and staying with it. I'd like to see his income get a little higher in that sales role. Uh I'd like to see him approach six figures in a sales role.

And so, maybe maybe that's what he's looking for. I know he's working like a crazy man right now, and we admire that.

That's what I would be trying to do. >> Yeah, and talk >> Talk to a Ramsey trusted real estate agent and have someone else come and look at this house and, you know, consider if that's going to work or not.

I don't know if it's going to work or not. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of room there, but if the house payment's bothering you and you can get way down on house payment. So, here's the thing. If you can retreat back to safety, >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Give yourself room to heal.

One thing's for sure, it'd be very unusual, and I've been doing this a long time sitting in this thing. I can't think of a single case that I've worked with that 10 years later you're in exactly the same spot with your health.

>> Yeah. That's true. >> I mean, you're you're not going to be the same spot with your health 10 years from now. So, this is a as you said, a rough patch.

It's not a destiny. It's not a It's not the prescription for your whole life. So, you guys keep scratching and clawing and then the sun will start to come out and then there'll be a light at the end of the tunnel that's not a train, finally.

And uh but in the meantime, you've been through a hard time.

And hey, we're with you. I I'm with you.

I'm I think your emotions are real and I would have them, too.

So, keep pushing. Keep pushing. But, also give yourself a little room to say, "If we don't make any progress right now other than healing, that's probably okay for right now."

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Hannah is in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hi, Hannah. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I'm renting an apartment to a former co-worker of mine and originally it started out where I was trying to help her out um get her back on her feet. She was going through a breakup and she had two kids and they were going to be homeless.

And now it's to the point where I'm wondering if I'm just enabling her poor financial choices.

>> How How long has this been going on?

>> Uh 2 years. She's been there almost 2 years. >> Okay. Well, at what point was she supposed to get back on her feet?

>> Well, that's a good question. Um right now I'm charging her 750 a month in rent and that's including all her utilities.

Um it should The apartment should be about 1,200 a month in rent.

>> Mhm. >> Um she was She was doing all right and then she was in a car accident.

Didn't have any insurance.

Um now she's got a bill a bill for that and then she got into another car with those $40 down deals.

And she's I don't know 20,000 in debt on a car that's only worth maybe 6 grand.

But she's She's paying more on her car than she's paying me for rent.

So, I don't see her getting out of the hole anytime soon.

>> Mhm.

Okay. So, instead of getting back on her feet, she dug the hole deeper.

>> Yeah, pretty much. >> By not having insurance and making a bad car decision.

>> Yeah, and I just recently found out well she she missed December rent. She's caught up now, but she missed that for she was buying Christmas stuff for her kids. Then I found out that she's paying 200 a month almost to rent ca- rent couches

for her apartment.

>> Okay. >> And she only makes about 3,000 a month, I think.

>> Okay. So, So, how does How does this end?

Where does this end? When when does this end?

>> I mean, either I raise the rent and then she gets behind and I have to evict her.

Or I mean, that's that's really the only That's really the only option I see. I could ask her to leave.

I don't know how that would go. >> I don't agree with you. I think that um I think if it just keeps deteriorating, you don't even have to raise the rent. She's not going to be able to pay it.

Cuz she keeps She keeps making stupid decision after stupid decision on top of each other and they're compounding and she's going to bury herself. And then she's not going to be able to pay even your reasonable rent.

Hello? >> Hello? >> Yeah. You agree?

>> Yeah. I agree. >> You don't even have to raise the rent. This thing's going to go down the toilet eventually anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, I you know, the the question is, are we just going to stand by and watch that happen or are we going to take proactive measures on the other side one way or the other? So, >> So, I do I do have a a lease with her that's up in next March.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, I I guess she's not going to make it a year.

I don't I don't She works a seasonal job and her hours will go down midsummer.

>> What is her job? >> making as much. Um We both work in a greenhouse.

>> Okay. >> So, we That's what I'm wondering. Is there an emotional attachment you have to this person that you probably have not or would not with other people that are leasing from you?

>> Well, we used we used to work together and we don't anymore. Um That ended about 3 months ago. I no longer work with her.

So, and I also I I was living in It's a triplex. I was living there as well.

So, as long as I was there and seeing her every day, that made it harder. And I no longer live there.

So, that's really helped me have more of an emotional break.

>> Mhm. >> Emotional break from having to see her and >> Yeah. >> See her there, see her at work, and I'm I'm really >> You sounded emotional when you started talking to us. I could be wrong, but you sounded emotional. >> I'm I'm just I'm just nervous.

>> Okay. Well, you're doing great, by the way. You're doing great.

>> Uh yeah, I I I'm with Dave on this one.

I But I I would be planning I would be planning on what are we going to do when she can't pay the rent anymore so that you're not stuck with this.

Cuz this doesn't There's There's just You wouldn't do this for anybody else is the is the feeling I'm getting.

>> think that you can fix her life.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz she's choosing not to.

And you're not You're not going to fix it. If you gave her free rent, >> Mhm. >> she would screw it up.

>> No, I think if I gave her free rent, she would go rent three more couches.

>> Ah, that's what I meant. She'd screw it up. Yeah. Yeah. Or Or a hot tub for the back porch or whatever, yeah. And so >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um I think we've got to you know, you you need to sit down have a conversation with her human to human and say, "All right, we started this so that I could help you.

And here's what's happened since I started helping you.

You've gotten worse.

You rented couches.

You went around without car insurance and made a mess. And then you bought a car that you absolutely can't afford that's killing you. And so I'm thinking this is going to end poorly. Like you're going to not pay me rent and then I'm going to have to evict my friend who I was trying to help and this whole thing breaks my heart. So, you and I need to come to an agreement that says that you need to go live somewhere else.

Because I'm not a blessing to you and I want to be a blessing to you. I want to be helpful to you and I can't be that

while you're here.

>> So, maybe I should ask her to look for somewhere else before the situation gets worse. >> Yeah, like now. I was talking about this conversation happens next week.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, I want her to leave now.

I want her to go buy go rent something that she can afford that's cheaper.

And um >> She can't get anywhere cheaper.

>> Yes, she can.

>> I don't I don't know where. >> I don't either. >> it >> I don't either, but it's not your job.

Your job is to remove her. That's it.

>> Well, you're right.

>> Because you're not going to This is not going to work out. It's not a loving You're not loving her by just doing nothing and letting this thing go down the drain.

If you really do care about her, help her move.

You know, I'll give you a free rent I'll give you a free month's rent or I'll refund next month's rent if you're gone by the end of the month and that'll help you get started on your new thing.

And give her $750 after she moves out.

>> Okay, I can do that. >> And and then go rent the stinking thing for $1,200 and the next time you get ready to help someone, you need to think about what help looks like.

And where this is taking us.

Because you you giving her a place to live did not keep her from being homeless.

>> Yeah. >> Hello. That did not that you know, you use that line in your head and you use it on us, but I'm not buying it.

Um She would have figured out something. She's always figured out something. And the the only way that I help someone in a situation like that is if I get down under the thing and I start going, "Okay, we're going to be on a budget.

We're going to work six jobs. There's no rental couches. There's no car payments.

We keep insurance in place and we're going to ride herd on doing smart stuff with your money." And if you do smart stuff with your money, after a little while you'll have some money. It's pretty amazing.

It's kind of It's kind of works like every time. >> Mhm. >> And when you do do stuff with money, you have no money. It works like every time.

>> It's going to ask you how do you how do you recommend people like in this situation deal with the guilt? Cuz she's a good person. The caller is a really good person, obviously trying to help out a former co-worker. >> You can't be Your job is not Jesus.

>> That's right. >> Jesus already took the job. It's his job. >> That's right. >> You're You're not You're not signed up for that and you don't have the skills for it. >> Right. >> Your job is not to fix everyone. You can't fix other people. >> Yeah. >> The only thing you can do is set up a situation where they can do something.

You set up a situation where they could do something and they chose not to do >> That's right. >> I can't make her the lady >> Yeah. >> stop doing stupid stuff. >> So a question could be did I do everything possible?

>> It's why I end the call here. >> Right. >> When someone calls and they they I tell them what to do and then they argue with me. I tell them what to do and then they argue with me.

The third time they argue with me, 100% of the time you'll hear me end the call. I am not going to try to talk you into this stuff.

And I'm going to just watch it happen. I am and I go home with no guilt. I turn off the microphone, get in my car, drive home. I don't even remember you called. Cuz I It's not my job to fix your life.

My job to help you, show you how you fix your life. You're the hero in the story.

I'm not the hero.

I'm just a guy on the sideline showing you what to do. I'm Yoda teaching you how to swing the lightsaber. If you choose not to get in the fight, I can't help you with it.

>> Yeah. >> You know, you got to step into the force yourself. I can't do it for you and she can't do it for her friend. >> Yeah. >> And just giving her a place to live and calling that oh, she would have been homeless otherwise. No, she wouldn't.

That's bull crap. She She wouldn't either. She might have had a hard patch and then worked it out, but you you got to stop doing the stuff that you keep doing the same thing over and over again. You expect a different result. It's a definition of insanity.

And I got no guilt about to That's not being callous. It's just I It's not my job to be Jesus. He's He's got that job already taken.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Jerry is in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Jerry.

How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Uh I'm I had a question for you. Um I've been I've been married for 11 months, and I I found out uh during our joint filing with my wife uh that she has 4 years of back taxes with the IRS totaling about $48,000.

And um I'm looking for advice on how to handle that.

>> Wow. That's a bummer.

So, did did she uh is she deceptive or

incompetent or both?

>> Uh without sounding derogatory, I'd probably choose the latter.

>> Incompetent.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. I mean, like it didn't it didn't occur to her that this was a problem.

>> Uh no, she thought it would fix itself.

>> Yeah. Okay. And that's why she didn't bring it up. She wasn't actually hiding it. It just was not on her radar as important.

>> Yes. >> Where you're like in freak out mode and so am I. >> Yes. >> Yeah, LIKE AH!

YOU'RE KIDDING. >> YEAH. >> HOLY JESUS!

OH MY GOD. THE IRS OF ALL PEOPLE.

UH OKAY.

SO, um

the first thing I want to pull the thread on what else don't I know that you don't think is important?

>> Agreed. And um I asked this question about 2 weeks ago when we were filing and then this kind of she came clean with the rest of it cuz I saw from 2024, the tax

year, that there was stuff that had been penalized. And I asked her about that and if there was anything else, she said no and then yesterday she brought up these other things.

>> Well, I mean, like 3 years ago I got a car repoed and I didn't bring that up.

But they're they're they're going to come to me for $30,000 one of these days.

>> Right. >> But I don't think it's a big deal. So, I thought it'd take care of itself, so I didn't bring it up. I mean, what else is out there that I didn't think was important, so I didn't bring it up?

>> Agreed. >> I really want to dig into that, and um and and uh somehow okay, so her reaction is not

It was kind of like a shrug like this is just no big deal.

Or am I missing something?

>> She viewed it as a big deal.

Thought she could take care of it herself.

>> Oh, okay. >> All right. So, what did that involve?

>> Cuz what I'm trying to what I'm trying to do is establish a relationship pattern going forward.

>> I agree.

So, well, I she brought it all to me and I you know, now I know what's on the table. We looked at her credit report to

identify anything else like you said.

So, I have a view of everything that's happening now.

I I just need need to know what what's the best plan of action? Do I pay it all as a lump sum? Do I >> Yes. If you have it, you have it?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yeah, write a check.

Cuz the penalties and the interest you can't are ridiculous and there's no discounting with the IRS.

They they get they they they're made whole 100% of the time.

So, yeah, just as fast as you can clean it up the better. But, I really want to make sure relationally that there's nothing else out there riding. You didn't see anything on the credit bureau and I want to make sure that that we're aligned on um

this is the worst financial moment of our entire lives relationally. It never

gets any worse than this. Everything is better from here forward. We really need to both be on that page.

>> Mhm. >> Because I mean, I'm I'm scared that this could happen again if there's not a like a I don't an an acknowledgement that the how damaging this is to a relationship.

>> Mhm. >> By her. So, if that's not the case, then you guys may need to sit down for a tune-up going with a marriage counselor just to get things dialed, get some tools in both your belts to get aligned on that this is like grown-up stuff and you can't freaking ignore it and me be okay with that. I'm not going to be okay with that. And so, we have to be aligned on

that we together are know everything and

together we are aligned in on every decision going forward so that there there's never I'm never going to be surprised again the rest of my life if I'm you. I'm not okay with surprises of this type.

And so, that that Yeah, and I'm just Go ahead. >> We just we have a we have our first baby coming in 2 months, so it's kind of all falling on top of me right now.

>> Yeah. Well, and um yeah.

And so, we're negotiating with a lady in her third trimester, too. This this is just really not profitable. Um >> Yeah.

>> Well, okay. Well, at some point in this process and it may not be anytime soon given that last piece of information.

Okay? And then I'd write a check, pay it off. Because if it comes back again after you write a check and pay it off and and something else pops up or she goes and does something else and forgets to tell you because it's not important, but it is important. I can handle it myself or whatever the bullcrap narrative was on this thing, and it was bullcrap, um then then, you know, you we don't want a repeat of this.

We want to heal this broken narrative. Does does make >> Yeah, and one of the things I was going to lean into is is if you guys aren't already doing combined finances, that needs to happen today.

as we work through the relational stuff here, uh the financial stuff is also completely everything is on the table.

This is a tough feeling, you know, to have, but I I agree with Dave. Uh I'd stroke the check today. You don't want to be dealing with the IRS on this. Is And then listen, it's going to suck right in that check. Uh but it's going to suck worse not to deal with it.

>> Yeah. >> Uh and to try to string this response out with a baby on the way.

>> No. No. >> Don't do that. >> I'd take care of it immediately. I'd get on the phone with them and find out what it is and cu- clear that. But we have to make sure that there's no repeat.

>> Oh, yeah. >> That's the big thing here. And so And transparency does that. And so if you got fully transparent and then you're looking over her income and her withholding and the two of you are doing your taxes together and then there is a shortfall, then it's now your fault.

Because you're you got your fingers in there with it, okay? And to Ken's point, when you combined everything and then it still happens, then now it's on you.

So um that's the whole process. That's That's where I would go. But the the the big thing is this, financial problems are never the problem, they're always a symptom of something else going on. So you got to go down to ground and go, "What's the problem? What's causing this? And what's

causing her to not deal with this?

Family of origin, they were you know, we were shamed to talk about money. Every time we talked about money, daddy yelled, so I don't want to talk about money cuz I'm afraid you'll yell." Or I don't know whatever the bull crap is that's under there, but there's bull crap under there, I promise you.

This is crazy.

And um cuz it's

it's not $500, it's 50 thousand dollars.

That's not an oops.

Okay? 500 is an oops.

Um 50,000 is

oof oof oof bothering me. Yeah.

Man, and what what a setup though. I mean, with a baby coming in 2 months. Wow.

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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>> Beth is in Detroit. Hi Beth, how are you? >> Hi, I'm all right. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I'm calling to see if what your advice would be on selling our home family home. We've got uh four kids in order to pay off a large amount of debt.

>> Okay.

And uh so how much is a large amount of debt?

>> So, we owe 145 to the IRS, 145,000.

And then um we have 100,000 on a home

equity line of credit. And then about almost 50,000 on medical expenses and

car payments. >> Mhm. Mhm.

And what's your home worth?

>> Um we currently our mortgage is for 470 and we have an offer currently that we just got for 755. So, it would allow us basically to clear the debt and restart. But our hesitation is with our just our kids.

>> Um where did all this debt come from?

>> So, um my husband was the primary breadwinner. I was home with our kids and he got into day trading.

Um and I am guilty of burying my head in

the sand and not getting involved in our finances. So, he he made quite a bit, lost it just as quick, and then turned to credit cards.

Um and then didn't pay taxes on the capital gains he made with the trading before losing it all.

>> Okay. Um there's not capital gains on day trading. There's ordinary income on day trading.

And there's also there's also a loss you can take if you've lost money against that.

>> Okay. >> Do you really think you have the whole story?

>> So, I I'm not entirely financially literate.

This is something that I'm trying to get more involved in just in the last couple of years. Um taxes in partic- I mean >> When did When did all this happen?

>> This happened about Uh well, I I think it was happening for quite some time, but again, I kind of was burying my head in the sand, and he just came to me 3 years ago.

Um we had a major house crisis, and he said, you know, I got to come clean. We owe quite a bit of money. I cleared out our 401k. I cleared out all of our savings. >> Okay, so he's been You've been limping along with this together for 3 years with you having You having knowledge of it. >> Yes, sir. Yeah, we've been married for almost 20 years, but we Yeah, 3 years I've had knowledge of it. >> And what what does he What does he make a year?

>> He makes 180 as a base, but he's in he's

in sales, um but it's been a tumultuous and very dry couple >> And he's not He's not day trading anymore.

>> Correct. >> Okay. All right.

Okay, so your your question was interesting. You said um we would do this except for the kids.

I think you have to do it for the kids.

You have to get your life back.

For the kids. Your kids Your kid The definition of your kids having a good life is not where they live.

It's who their parents are and how they act.

>> Yeah.

>> You live in a house that's way nicer than you grew up in.

>> Mhm. >> So do I. So does Ken.

And we didn't die from that.

And it didn't malform our character from that.

>> Yeah. >> So sell it and clean up the dadgum mess.

If the problem has gone away, no more day trading, and no more deceiving, and you guys are working together on this, then he takes his 180,000 and hopefully more, 250,000 and you guys work to rebuild your lives and buy another house someday, but in the meantime, I'm going to be free, baby.

Set me free.

And I think that I think the stress level in the air of your home will go down and the children will benefit from that far more than they will having that particular set of bricks and mortar.

>> Okay, that's a good way. Yeah.

>> Yeah, I'm just going to add, just do your own research tonight on how stress affects your physical health.

It's not just the mental and emotional, we forget what it does to the body. So, I would just add, if I had the chance to fix this, and I love the fact that he came forward 3 years ago, if you guys are on the same page now, I absolutely agree with Dave. This is a reset.

A reset with with the idea though, that we never do this again.

>> Yeah, I mean, he has to say, I lost our house. >> That's right. >> This is a moral issue. I lost our home.

That's how big a deal this is, okay? By the way, I lost everything and went bankrupt because of my choices, not my wife's, all right? When I when we went bankrupt 30 plus years ago.

All right, so that's, you know, and I get to own that the rest of my life, but I also never did the things again that put me there again.

Ever again, again, again, never again.

You see? I mean, you you you say, I you know, I I lost everything. I lost I lost my home. I We did not lose our home, but we only the only reason was there was no equity in it. And so so it survived the bankruptcy, but and it wasn't that nice a house anyway, but the uh anyway, yeah, we we just said, you know, we lost everything. We get the opportunity to start again fresh and clean and uh in your case, that's

the sale of a house, in our case, it was a bankruptcy, and we're never going back here again, and we never went back there. And we from that point forward, we never I never bought anything that Sharon and I both agree to. Investments or otherwise.

And so, yeah.

Uh So, I think it's fair to say, just to outline for everybody, just to let you guys know out there, this is not a um

unique situation.

>> Yeah. >> Here's the numbers, and this is the most bizarre number I have almost ever heard in the investing world.

If you day trade for 36 months continuous, 97% of you lose money.

That's how stupid that is.

I mean, if you said 97% of the time you walk across the street, you get hit by a car, you would not walk across that street

under any circumstances. You wouldn't be the one guy that says, "Frogger, I got this." You wouldn't be that guy. You would be going, "No, that's Those are not odds I want to play." And there is something about the arrogance and pridefulness that says, "I've got the stock market figured out." If you hear someone say that, laugh at them. They are funny people. They are

statistically stupid human beings.

97% of you that day trade 36 months consecutively lose money.

Now, you need to hear that because some of you get a little fishing story where you hit a lick, and you go, "Oh, I MADE SOME MONEY." And it's just like gambling in Vegas. Now, I'm going to go back to the table, and the only part I'm going to remember is the time I won. I'm going to forget about the 16 times I lost.

And when you add it all up, you lost.

That's how they build those nice hotels in Vegas.

>> So true. >> And the same thing is true of day trading. YOU LOST.

Poor guy, poor gal, what a horrible thing they're going through. But some of you people, man, you're sitting out there with "Dave Ramsey doesn't understand." Listen, I understand. What I understand is what I What I don't understand is why you don't understand.

97, WHAT OTHER NUMBER DO YOU HAVE THIS 97% of anything ever? That's not statistically significant. That's like a fact. You're going to lose money. Oh my

god. >> Yeah. >> And it has the same trap that gambling does. Oh, it's the exact same trap cuz it's got the feedback loop.

>> Yep. >> It's the same thing as DraftKings. Same crap. Same exact thing.

That's why sports betting's gone through the roof. It's a feedback loop. A scarcity feedback loop. And um You know, our friend Michael that wrote um >> Comfort Crisis.

>> Michael Easter. His second book, Easter. His second book it talks about that a lot. And he went into great depth study on that about the the dopamine hits and and how you just keep cycling back into this thing.

arrogance that I can beat the house.

It's just It's arrogant beyond Pride comes right before you have to sell your

house because you lost everything.

>> Mhm. >> Wow.

Pride comes right before the fall.

Wow.

>> Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

>> Yeah, and that's why you've always said that having term life insurance from Zander is essential because it protects your family if the worst happens.

>> Yeah, that's right. You need 10 to 12 times your income in coverage. No gimmicks, no whole life junk, just

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive but can't work.

So, it replaces a large part of your income so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Zander can help you find the right plan.

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>> Protect yourself, protect your income, protect your family.

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Start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Zach is with us in

Colorado Springs. Hi Zach, how are you?

>> I'm doing pretty good. How about yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um I need to give context after the question cuz I I follow you guys and this is going to sound like I don't, but I'm wondering if I should if there's a trick to increasing some credit problems so that I can get a house within 18 months or if my credit score will go bye-bye in that amount of time.

>> Everything that we've seen that they do not publish this, but everything that we've seen in 6 to 12 months of the time you've had zero activity on any account, your credit score will disappear.

>> Okay. Are there Are there like any ways to guarantee that it does that?

>> No. >> And my my main credit issue is is a

collection debts. Those will be knocked out within a couple of months and I want to make sure nothing appears again after that.

>> Yeah. Well, the the um if you have co- if you have settled them, if they're not outstanding, there should be no more activity on the account once it's settled.

Right?

>> I believe so. I'm just I've just

I've had a couple pop up that I didn't know were even in collections.

>> Well, I can't That's why you can't make a guarantee. I mean, if you have something pop up, then the whole clock starts over, dude.

So, I mean, you can't you know, but if you've got stuff that's in collections or been in collections and you're just having to settle it, the last thing you need to do is go into debt to build your credit score to buy a house. So, you need to freaking do this in the right order, dude. I mean, listen to what you're actually saying here. It's kind of crazy. So, no, you need to clear you need to clear the debts, get to zero and zero activity,

and if it takes longer than 6 months or longer than 12 months because something else pops up, well, that's something else popping up would have screwed up your other plan, too, by the way.

If you're sitting there and the credit score is going up up up because you have a bunch of healthy accounts that you're paying on time merely to drive your credit score up and you have a collection drop in the middle of that, it goes down down down.

And so, anything you have pop up that you you know, that that unexpectedly is going to affect this either strategy negatively.

So, no, I I I I would clear everything and count on 6 to 12 months after date of last activity, you should see a a

credit score disappear, become undeterminable, and you can go to Churchill Mortgage and get a the same mortgage that someone with an 850 score can get. Same exact mortgage, but they do manual underwriting in order to make that happen. >> And I just want to point this out cuz this So, we take this call all the time.

You need to be aware that everybody you know is probably going to disagree with what Dave just said because they're uninformed. They think that you all have almost heard Dave wrong is my guess.

Because this is such a cultural thing.

So, I'm only bringing this up to say, call Zander and talk to them.

>> Churchill? >> Excuse me, Churchill. Thank you. Uh call Churchill Mortgage and walk through it so that you actually have real data

because most people that you do life with will think that either A, we're crazy or B, that you heard us wrong.

That's how systemic this credit score belief is. So, I just want to point that out that when you get off this call, you might be on the high of Okay, I know what to do. And then you tell anybody, they're going to look at you like you got horns growing out your head.

>> Tyler's in Atlanta. Hi Tyler, how are you? >> I'm doing good. How you doing, Dave?

>> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Uh yeah, so right now um I currently travel for work. Um I'm a fiber optic splicer and I make about 130,000 a year.

And my wife, we have one little boy and we have a little girl on the way. And um

I was wanting to try to move back home and my pay will probably be getting cut in half almost.

And um she's a stay-at-home mom.

And I was just going to see what y'all thought on that. >> What's the driving reason that you are even considering taking a half pay cut to move back home?

>> Being home. Being home with the kids. >> I know, but I want a little bit more on that. I know you want to What's the driving reason that would make you consider that?

>> Well, I'm gone for 5 days a week and then once a month I have to work the weekend shift. And I just want to be home with them more, be more present and

that's it.

>> Okay, so it's it's not trying to be near family to make up for the travel. It's I just don't want to be on the road.

>> Uh yeah, pretty much. I just want to be with them. >> Okay. More.

Is that your only option to take a 50% cut? >> Um probably not 50. It probably It might go from like 130 to like 70 or 80 probably. >> Doing what?

>> I'm a fiber optics blaster.

>> So you'll do the same thing.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah. >> And how what made you Where did you get that number? 70 or 80?

>> Um well, I've just been looking at um like jobs in the area I live in and that's about the median for that.

>> Published jobs or friends telling you about stuff? >> Uh published jobs. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay, so that's the median. So what is a path look like for growth? What Forget this move for just a second. If you stay in your industry, what is possible for you to get to over time if you look in the next 3 to 5 to 7 10 years?

>> Same man, it's growing pretty good. Um if I move my way up, say I go to supervisor or something like that, I could probably reach back over 100,000 a year while at home. >> Okay, what's beyond supervisor?

>> Uh probably like regional and stuff or like director. >> Okay, what's that make?

>> Uh I'd probably say well over 120.

>> Okay. Is that something you want? Why are you not eligible for that now?

>> Yeah. Well, um I'm 22 right now and I've been doing this almost 4 years.

Which I don't know if I am or not. I haven't really looked at that yet. Um

but I'm just guessing I'm probably just new too new to it and I don't really have any supervisor experience.

>> you some uh older brother advice? I actually I'm old enough to be your dad sadly. I just realized that. So here here's what I think. I think you're allowing the real raw emotion of being

away from the family, how bad your heart's hurting and that's cuz you're a good dude. You're a good dude and a good dad. Uh and I totally get it. But I think you're allowing that raw emotion to get in the way of a long-term plan. And at 22 with another one on the way. I would be thinking about the next 5 to 7 years

as clearly as I could understanding I can't control the future but I can look forward and I can go how do I want to take care of my wife and these two little ones 5 to 7 years from now.

And and if it were me I would let this sit a little bit get some more wisdom besides Dave and I some older guys in your life say hey I'm dealing with this real emotion because I think until you have a plan for what the next 3 5 7 years could look like in your industry I would not leave this job and I would let my heart hurt a little bit more cuz the babies are little one baby at home another one they don't even know you be present when you're home.

could clearly tie it to a better move long-term. I'm willing when I came to Ramsey I'm I I actually

went backwards a little bit for about a year and a half but I knew coming here

was the best long-term play.

But it was a part of the long-term.

And let me also point out I was able to do it. We made some changes financially to where we weren't scraping. >> Yeah, let me add one other thing okay.

Do not just because you saw some job listings at one price don't accept that as your destiny.

>> Right. So >> you know I don't think that you have to make less coming off the road.

I think you can make almost what you're making now but you're probably going to poke around a little bit more to find that one because you are in a wonderful trade right now and the trades are very short on help.

And I think you're probably in a stronger position than you feel like you are. You do not have to take a pay cut

necessarily to come home. It's not mandatory.

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>> Today's question comes from Adrian in Romania. I've been wrestling with whether certain ways of making money are morally right from a Christian perspective. I understand working for a salary, creating a useful product or service, or renting housing at a fair price, but I feel conflicted about things like stocks and bank deposits because they seem more indirect and harder to evaluate ethically. For example, when you buy and later sell

stock for a profit, it can feel like you're benefiting without really creating value. And with banks, you do not always know how your money is being used. Am I overthinking this, or are some forms of investing more consistent with Christian convictions than others?

Uh, yeah, I do think you're overthinking it, but I don't take a shot at you there. I think, you know, you've got a great heart. Um, I think you've got to use God-given common sense, and then also that still small voice of discernment. And I think that when it comes to just your general investing in banks you don't need to feel guilty about making money on your deposits or making money on your money market or making money on your investment strategy certainly what we teach here at Ramsey.

So I think while you're overthinking it I appreciate where your heart is and I think you just have to back off to wait a second am I in any way making money through some type of Ponzi scheme right now that is dishonesty. That is lying

and making money off of evil actions

would be your meter and so outside of that I think you're overthinking it but >> Am I bringing harm to someone?

>> Yeah that's the other thing. >> And so you know when you deposit money in a bank and they pay you interest you're not bringing harm to someone. You can't control what the bank does. Okay it's the same thing as if you go and buy groceries at a grocery store they now have your money.

If they go and do something evil with it you bought groceries.

You didn't do anything they did and so same thing with the bank if you put a deposit in a bank and they do something evil with it. Now if a bank is known for screwing people and you put your money in there well yeah you're kind of participating then. But but but just you

know if a grocery store is known for screwing people and you do business with them you're participating too. Same thing right and so you know the trick is

we try not to do business with people that have evil intent in any way because they're going to do that and that that is consistent. Now and here's another interesting one that comes up also in this thing it's stocks you know buying stock.

Now I don't want to I've heard people say from a Christian perspective that I don't want to buy stock in X company because X company might be doing something wrong.

Well if you buy stock from that company,

unless it's an initial public offering or unless it's treasury stock being sold, both of which are very unusual, but if you simply call your broker up and say, "I want to buy stock in Home Depot." Home Depot doesn't get the money.

You're not buying the stock from Home Depot. You're buying it from Ken who's selling his Home Depot stock.

It's an individual to an individual. It's like my It's like my buddy has a Chevy pickup up for sale.

And you go buy the Chevy pickup.

Chevy doesn't get any of the money.

Okay? The the it but you know, but if so

if Chevy if Chevrolet is screwing somebody somewhere or messing somebody over, you buying that Chevy pickup from another individual is not in any way funding the evil practices.

Now, you are driving around a brand that

you don't agree with, okay, but aside from that, there you know, it's a used car.

The in the new car dealer does not get any the new car manufacturer does not get any This is a used share of stock.

You know, they don't get any benefit from it at all. Now, if the if the stock goes up in value and you you you know, that benefit that while you while that because that company is doing evil things and screwing people, then you have benefited. But the actual purchase of the stock is from another individual.

And so there's nothing there and and that that's the thing. So, you have to be real careful about jotting title here the details, in other words. You have to be careful about how how far down in the weeds am I going to try to do this? And so, you know, it's um

there's almost no way that you can have any transactions in the marketplace that at some point you can't lead it back to something that you don't like.

Somewhere somehow. >> Yeah. >> But you're what you where you have to decide is, okay, how much what control

do I have and is my intent to profit off of this. So for instance, I would never buy or do business with or put money in any way anywhere near a payday lender.

They're charging 800% they're screwing poor people. Okay? So I'm not I don't want to own one of those secretly on the side that none of you know about but God would know about it, right? And so as a Christian, I'd be screwing poor people.

And I so I'm not going to have anything to do with a payday lender in any stretch any way.

And but but you know, just because the grocery store they don't get a pass either.

Because you know they sell whatever that I don't agree with in there, you know, and and you know, you can say well, there's some kind of toxic what I what I it's just you can never get to the end of this.

>> That's drive yourself crazy.

>> So I spend a reasonable amount of time saying this is God's money. Am I doing something that makes him blush?

If it does then I don't do it.

But I'm also not going to spend my entire life trying to live in a cave click lint and and avoid doing business

out here in a positive way helping people in the process and um

not enjoying the whole process. So there you go. Interesting. All right, Jamie is in Memphis. Hi Jamie, how are you?

>> I'm doing well. How about you, Dave? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So my question is how do you enjoy financial peace when the majority of your net worth is money that you received like through inheritance and wasn't through your own hard work?

>> Uh do you have children?

>> No, I'm single. >> Okay. Do you will you have children someday?

>> Most likely not, no, sir.

>> Okay. All right.

Um well, I want good things for my kids.

Most people do.

And so, someone wanted good things for Jamie.

And they blessed you with an inheritance.

Was it your parents, your grandparents, or what? >> Grandparents. >> Grandparents? Okay. Didn't they deeply love you?

>> They did. >> Okay. And so, they wanted to do nice things for the their grandkid who they love.

I don't know why you couldn't enjoy that.

You you didn't do anything wrong except have grandparents that loved you.

Right? >> Yeah. >> So, I I wouldn't I wouldn't be wasteful.

I would be trying to multiply the money and do good things with it to make grandpa proud.

So, he's watching from heaven and say you know, I want him smiling. I want to live out the legacy that he built and do good things, do positive things with the wealth and and part of that is enjoy it, part of it's multiply it, invest it well.

>> Yeah, I've just add I don't There's a lot going on. We don't have time to dig in. Uh I I think a practical answer is how do you start to enjoy money that you didn't earn is a little bit at a time.

I think it's like being afraid of riding a bike. If I could take you way back there, you wanted to ride a bike. Little you was like, I think riding a bike would be amazing. I see older kids doing it, but I'm also equally terrified to try to learn to ride a bike.

And I think there's something going on with you and money. >> So, training wheels. >> So, I do think training wheels. I think just go give.

Here's what I would do. I would give some today or tomorrow. Not a huge amount, but just something that makes you uncomfortable enough and and it's not a crazy amount, but just give it to somebody and watch someone's reaction to you taking that money and doing something good with it. And then down the line, a day or two later, buy something again reasonable, something that you would like to buy.

Maybe it's even a $100 purchase, who cares?

experience something positive with money cuz my belief is you've not experienced much positive around money at all in your life.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Mary is in Washington, D.C. Hi Mary, how are you?

>> Hi Dave, fine. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure, what's up?

>> I'm retired with 8,500 monthly pension,

$4,600 in expenses.

I owe $376,000 on my mortgage and have

$249,000 in my 401k and $40,000 liquid.

Should I use my surplus to pay off my home early or keep investing?

>> Mhm.

Interesting. So, how much is owed on the house?

>> 376. >> 376.

Okay. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. And so, and you're how old?

>> 56. >> 56, yeah. So, I I do want home paid off,

okay? Uh going into retire going into retirement. And so, I don't I don't want you to carry a mortgage.

I mean, you're early retired at 56, but I'm saying you going into your 60s and 70s, I want the house paid off. So, we need to get there, but if we did even 10 years, that's 66 years old. That's $30,000 a year. That's $2,500 a month.

You could do that and still invest.

>> Ooh, okay.

>> you could back off of the Or you could back off the investing and be done in 6 years, you know, or 5 years.

Uh if you put 5,000 a month, it'd be gone in 5 years.

>> That's true. Okay. Would Is that what you would recommend?

>> Um I don't like doing nothing on investing.

So, I would do something there.

Um but I I'm going to put the heavier part of the excess money on the house

while still doing something. So, if I had 5,000 to play with as an example, which it sounds like you don't. Sounds like you got four to play with, right?

>> Right. Right. >> Okay. What about three and one?

What would that do for us? That's uh 36,000 a year. It gets you about gets

you out in about seven eight years, something like that. Yeah. If you put a thousand dollars in investing, that's only $12,000 a year.

And you put 3,000 on the house, you'll be done. I think it I'm doing this in my head, but I'm pretty close. I think it'll be between seven and eight years you'll be out. And uh here's the thing.

If Is your 250 that's in the 401k invested in good growth stock mutual funds earning market rates of return?

>> Um I think so. I retired from the government, so I have the G fund.

>> Mm, okay. So, it's TSP. It's not 401K.

>> Yeah, TSP, I'm sorry. It's TSP.

>> Okay. I would move it all into the C plan.

Not the G. >> Okay. >> It's It's been It's been earning about what the S&P does. And so it's been earning around 11 12% a year average.

If you're If you're earning 10%, which the G is not, but the C would be.

Um if you're earning 10% a year, your lump sum, your 250 that's in there, will double every 7 years. You're 56, so that

means that 250 will be a million dollars at 70.

If you don't add anything to it.

If you don't add anything to it. And if it's in the C plan. Now, if you're retired, you can roll that TSP into an IRA

with a with a good SmartVestor Pro and pick mutual funds that'll outperform the C. If you're stuck in the TSP, you know, like if you still work there, then then I would be in the C plan.

Maybe a little bit in the I, a little bit in the S, but mainly the C if you're working there. But you're not there anymore. You can roll that.

At 70, and you'd have the house paid off at $4,000 or $3,000 a month um

in I think 7 and 1/2, you know, 8 years, we'll call it. And And so, but that puts you at like 65 with a paid for house and on your way to a million dollars in nest egg. Meanwhile, as soon as the house gets paid off, you you know, your investments already be on track. You've got some freed up money at that point.

>> Yeah, and the only thing I would add, and we didn't get into this with you, so I'm not sure if you're single, if you're married or not, but the $4,600, I'd be looking uh where where can we cut there? That feels like that's a little bit high, but I love that you're got the $8,500 monthly pension. >> That's nice. >> Uh it is nice. Another thing I would also throw out there. I'm not saying you have to do this, but I would think about it. Um being young like you are, got a

lot of experience. How can I take some of that government skill, go to the private sector for 3 years, 24 months,

and make some good money, and fast forward the entire timeline that Dave just laid out? >> you drop a couple hundred grand on this formula, all of a sudden everything shifts quick. >> Because of her age, I would think about it. >> You know, between now and 60, you could pay off the house with the income only.

>> Correct. >> Extra income only. >> Correct. >> Make 300 grand between now and 60, that'd be like 100 and 120,000 dollars

a year or whatever. I mean, yeah, I bet I bet you could. >> It's possible. I would lose I would look at it as an op >> You don't have to do it as a slave drive thing. Take something that it's kind of makes you smile. Yeah, you're happy to go to work. >> That's right. >> And go make some little bit of money and it makes me real happy cuz I'm paying off my house super fast, and then I can really do be serious about investing.

That's that's a really good idea. I didn't think about that. Cuz at 56, you got a lot of gas left in the tank. Yeah, a lot of things you can do. >> Yeah. >> That's very cool. Okay, so the TSP

has the Thrift Savings Plan for federal

government employees has several options.

The G is the um is like a guaranteed, and it's one of the lowest paying of the options. The C

is a common stock, and it mirrors the S&P. The S is small company

and is like an aggressive growth. The I is international.

And so that's like an international growth stock mutual fund, same kind of thing. The S and the I have underperformed though their indexes in the marketplace. So they're not as strong. The C is by far the strongest thing, not even a close second in the TSP program. And so

what we've always recommended is somewhere around 80% for those of you working there or more in the C plan. And if you want a little bit of spice in the gumbo you can go 80 10 10, 80% C, 10% S, 10%

I. And that's starting to approximate the four types of mutual funds we talk about growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international in your TSP. And you'll get a good rate of return there. But I would have zero in the F or in the G, either one. And they also have not new life phase plans. I wouldn't be in any of those at all.

Not at all. Don't let the government plan your investing. That would be a bad idea. Sorry if you work for the government, but you should know that.

>> That's true. >> Yeah, no, you want to plan your investing and you want to look at the track records of these particular indexes that these are modeled after and they're pretty simple to look at. They they've got lots of good information on their website on it. But if you're in the in the TSP plan, that's what we recommend, folks.

>> Hey good folks, Dr. John Delony here.

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>> Brandon is in Fort Worth. Hey Brandon, how are you?

>> Oh, it's another beautiful day in paradise for me, guys. How are you, gentlemen? >> Just the same. How can we help, sir?

>> Good. Glad to hear it. Well, my question revolves around a bit of a moral conundrum for me. I'm wondering whether or not I should give back a prorated

amount um of money that was a lump sum given to me by a pretty new employer

uh based on the fact that I have um pretty much nailed down a new job um

and whether or not I should give any of that back. So, that's what's going on. >> got you got you got paid a signing bonus to come with them?

>> E- less structured than that. Uh basically, what happened is we during the negotiations for this new job, we agreed on a salary amount. We walked away. The next day they called me and said that for internal company politic

reasons, they didn't want to put that amount of salary on paper. So, what they were going to do is put me on paper for a lower salary and a third party

tangentially related to the business would give me a lump sum roughly equivalent to 33% of my annual income um

just up front and that those two things combined amounted to the amount that we agreed on for an annual salary.

>> And how long were you there?

>> I have only been working here for 4 months. Uh there is not a shred of paperwork that has been wetted with ink that would legally require me to give this money back. Um but >> Did you handshake and say you would?

>> Yes, I did. Well, I didn't say I would, but I did handshake and say I would work for them and I'm having some mixed feelings about leaving so soon.

>> Why are you leaving so soon?

>> Uh because I have um it was somewhat unexpected, but a uh job hiring window opened for a uh a job that is kind of a Cadillac job in the industry in which I work.

Um within 3 to 5 years, I would roughly triple my current income.

>> Mhm. >> Uh and it's just too much of a improvement to my family's quality of life to say no. >> Sure. And you've already accepted the new role.

>> Essentially, yes.

>> What does essentially mean?

>> I Yes. Yes, pending a training date um is

what that means. So, I don't know how long I'll be working at the current >> Okay. How much was How much was the lump sum? >> It was $50,000.

>> And what did you do with it?

>> Well, uh we still have roughly half. Uh my family and I are still in baby step two.

So, we used a about half of it to uh clean up two car loans that we had.

Uh so, So we're debt free except for our mortgage. But we did chew through a decent chunk of it, but I have about half and about 12 and a half thousand dollars of that is obviously earmarked for taxes, so.

>> How okay, it was a part of your salary.

It was such a convoluted way of doing it, but the bottom line is that was a part of your salary. They just chose to pay you a different way, so.

>> it. >> So how much of the 50,000 over the course of 12 months, how how much would that represent? >> was it was for over how many months?

>> I've been working for the company for four months. >> I'm sorry, but was that for a year?

To make up the difference for one year?

>> Yes, yes, basically.

>> Okay. That's what I'm trying to $4,000 a month, okay. For $4,200 a month, okay.

All right, and so and you've been there four months, that's 16 of it.

And you got to pay taxes on this.

>> Yes. >> Um

Hm. But they didn't uh there there was no uh like if we move someone from another state and we hire them, we pay X number of dollars, call it $10,000 in moving expenses.

Uh our employment agreement requires they repay that if they leave within 90 days. >> Correct, and that is pretty standard in the industry. However, I I signed nothing to that effect whatsoever. >> And they they and there's no there was no discussion of if you leave, you got to pay this back.

>> Uh not particularly, no.

>> No, it's just it's just you feel you feel funny about taking the money and then not being there the whole 12 months. What was going to happen at the end of 12 months, by the way?

>> Well, that so well, one thing we did discuss was that, you know, that that this third party would help make up the difference.

And no, not every year. So one one thing

that we did discuss was that they have to basically allow me to do outside work

to make up the that difference. You know, so basically I had about 12 months >> So you're going to take a pay cut?

>> Not to go to my new position.

>> No, I'm talking about if you had stayed there 12 months, after 12 months your pay goes down $50,000.

>> Yeah, that's correct from that from that my primary employer. >> Wacky that you took the deal.

>> Yeah, it's kind of a crazy deal. I have had a decent amount of success with side work making up that difference. >> that's that's irrelevant to this. This is like, you know, we don't want to tell the other people that work here. So we're not going to put it on paper. This just got this got a bad smell over the whole thing. >> Yeah. It's pretty it's pretty weird.

I make no bones about that. >> Not on you, but on them. It's just strange. And a third party has to come to the table. This is very strange. So >> The third party was like a relative >> Yeah. Yeah.

I um Okay, the best way to answer business ethics question is what would you want someone to do if the roles were reversed? Treat other people like you'd want to be treated. And so just switch roles and try to put yourself in their shoes and say, all right, I hired this guy, I gave him 50 grand, he worked here 4 months and he took off for a better job.

How would you want to be treated? I would probably if I were if I switched and try to look at it through their weird lens, but they have a weird lens, but I'm trying to sit over there in their shoes. I think they're going to I I think they're going to have a not a moral expectation or an I don't think you breached any ethics. I don't think you did anything wrong legally. If you kept the money, um

you know, they learn a lesson on how not to structure deals cuz this was a stupid but way to do this thing. So but especially with nothing inked on it, but um I um how would you want to be treated if the roles were reversed, and that that's the kind of person you want to be regardless of the kind of people that they are.

And so, yeah, I'm going to I'm probably if I'm switching roles, I'm probably going to write him a check for something. And then you just decide maybe it's the 25, and you got to cover the taxes or

whatever. I don't know. You got you know, you got a tax problem out of this, too, this mixed in there, but I'm probably going to go, "Okay, I worked here 4 months, and I got to pay taxes on all this, and there's here's what's left out of that. And so, here's what I'm going to do, and I'm not obligated to do anything, but I'm going to do this just as a because it's the kind of person I am.

I'm probably going to do something." >> Yeah, I That's why I was asking that question of how is that built in so that we could come up with a number. So, we've done 4 months service out of the 50. That's where I was going. >> So, that's 16 of the >> That's right.

>> So, that's 17,000 of the >> of the 50, so that's 33 left. He's got 25 in the account, but he's been taxed on 50. >> That's the other issue. >> not netted out.

>> Yeah, that's right. >> And I owe taxes. I don't >> And I'm not going to do it in a lump sum. I'm going to >> So, here's an idea. What if you said 50 minus tax or 4,200 a month minus taxes,

and did it that way? >> That feels I'm So, what I'm trying to get to is a is a good formula that makes sense. >> of taxes. >> Yeah. >> The taxes they lost. >> Yeah, cuz they essentially prepaid him.

Is that correct? That's how we're looking at that. It's a prepay on work to be done. >> It's what they did. >> And he only did 4 months, so I would feel that way, too.

>> And and I don't think again, I'm I I wouldn't throw darts at you whatever you do, cuz I think they're squirrely, and and I think they this is a whole thing's got a smell on it that's weird.

>> Yeah. >> And so, um you know, they get they get what's coming to them on that, but if I answer an ethics question honestly, I have to get a tender heart, and I have to step on the other side of the desk, and I have to say, "How would I want to be treated if I was sitting over there?" And how would I expect to be treated?

And you know, that that's

that's the thing. So, we had a guy working for us when the internet first started and ColdFusion was the language. And I spent $5,000 on a ColdFusion class and another $4,000 to send him to class in Oklahoma City.

And it was in the early days. That's a lot of money for us in the early days.

He came home and of course everything's blowing up, you know, brand new internet, right? And a guy offered him $50,000 more a year 3 weeks after he got home from class to go to work over there, more than I could pay or would pay. And he said, "I got to

He said, "I got to come and tell you about this, but I can't take it because you just invested all this in me. It's why I got the job offer." And I said, "Yeah, you got to take it." So, I let him loose with nothing.

And I didn't ask for anything back. But that was an, you know, again, how do I want to be treated? >> Yeah, he handled it up front. >> Yeah.

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John is with us over in San Antonio.

John, I see you on my screen. You're a baby-steps millionaire. Way to go, dude.

>> Oh, well, I got to give credit to you, Dave, for putting me on the path.

>> Well, I'm You You walked it, man, or ran it, or something. So, what's your net worth?

>> Oh, right around 1.7 million, I think. I just wrote a check for my house last month. >> Way to go. That's fun. Congratulations.

Okay, so break the 1.7 down for me. How much of it's your house?

>> Um probably between a little bit over 400k, I would think.

>> Okay, so you got a $400,000 house. Okay, what's the other 1.3 million?

>> Uh about 1.2 is probably in 401k,

retirement accounts, that kind of thing, cuz I've started up a couple of those.

>> And a hundred in miscellaneous?

>> Yeah, you know, emergency fund, six months, you know, and I keep that in cash and usually just buy like T-bills that, you know, mature within a month. So, I always have cash on hand, but >> I'm 55. >> 55. And how much of the 1.7 million did you inherit?

>> Zero. >> Okay. >> my parents' knowledge >> There you go. >> and love. >> Love it. That's good news.

>> I love it. My mom's still alive, too, so >> Very cool. And your worst year of income since you've been working and your best year of income since you've been working? >> Um worst year, uh probably 50.

Um best, just a little over 200.

>> Okay. What do you do for a living?

>> Uh I'm a project director in medical research. >> Okay. All right. Four-year degree?

>> Yes. >> In what? >> And that that really didn't um geography and child psychology.

>> Got it. Cool. And your GPA when you were going to school? >> Oh, I was worried you were going to ask me that. I I'm going to say it was close to three, but not quite over.

>> Okay. That's what mine was. Mine was a 2.97 and I'm still pissed about that 3/100s. But yeah, there you go. Good for you, man. All right. So, you didn't inherit anything. You start >> No. >> at zero at age 55. You got 1.7 million including a paid-for house. Very cool.

So, uh when you're out there running around today and you see these news reports that the American dream is dead, that it can't be done today. Uh do you think this can be done today? >> Absolutely.

And not only can it be done, it can be done easily. It's all mental.

My dad immigrated over from Germany when he was in his 20s and accomplished the American dream. My parents instilled in me that it is absolutely possible. Takes some sweat and just keep your head on straight. I didn't grow up until I was 32. I just wasn't thinking clearly and then I was. And I applied the principles they

instilled in me and the baby steps that gave me the path and it's absolutely possible. If I can do it, anybody can do it. >> So, if you got a if you got a 24-year-old version of you listening, what would you tell them the key is to be a millionaire, 1.7 million by the time they're 55? What's the key?

>> Grow up.

Grow up and just get over the mental hu- hurdle. Once you get over the mental aspect, live within your means,

anybody can do it. >> By mental aspect, you mean believe it can happen or what do you mean?

>> I mean, you know, it's not hard. You live with what within your means.

You have all the tools there. It and don't get tied up in the math. Don't get down into the minutia.

Just live within your means, build your budget, follow your baby steps, and it's done. And just don't worry about the little stuff.

Stay Keep your eyes on the big picture.

And you will take what you've learned.

There's so much you can read out there, but again, a lot of it gets down into the brass, you know, I mean, not the brass tacks, into the minutia.

If you just focus on the on the prize, you just don't buy the things that you just want.

Just go with what you need, and then the day will come where you're going to be giving more, and your soul's going to be much more full, and you're going to be happy. >> Let's talk about that point. You're not worried about the next bill that comes along. >> So, I love it.

You're talking about delayed gratification, right? This idea of mentally get over wanting all the stuff, keeping up with the Joneses. I think it's a great word.

How has paying off that house a month ago, uh coming to grips with what you're

telling us today of where you're at now at only 55? What does the future look like and feel like to you?

>> Well, it you know, it gives me options.

I I mean, technically, could I retire now? Sure.

But I don't want to. >> Mhm. >> But I have options now. I mean, it it when when people call in and yell to the top of their lungs they have freedom, it's no lie. It's no joke. It it is that. You're given freedom to have much

more control over your own life and what you can and can't do.

And I I I saw it in my daughter's eyes when she looked at me when I told her I I wrote a check and just paid off the house. The the proud feeling she had for me, which is in in the way my mom looked at me, and you know, you you they look at you like you're winner.

And you feel like you're a winner. And

it's just the you know, the world's my oyster now. >> Love it. >> What do I want to do? I don't I mean, I enjoy my job. I love doing what I do and I get paid well for it, but now I can pretty much do whatever I want.

>> I love it. >> What do you I John? >> I have a lot of just a a lot of I'm trying to look for the word. Just so much I could see in my future and I the

way my kids are growing up getting on the same bandwagon and you know, there's just so much I can do now. So much potential.

>> Amen. Amen. What do you drive?

>> I I have a F-150. I'm a 2011 F-150.

>> 2011 F-150. What's your wife drive?

>> Uh she has a Kia Sportage.

>> Uh-huh. How old?

>> And it's about it's about 2 years old.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Okay.

So folks, if you want to know what somebody's worth $1.7 million drives, that's what they drive.

>> Yeah. >> That that's that's an actual thing.

That's not a not a video. It's not an MTV reality show. Um it's not a it you know, it's not divorced housewives of the moon or whatever. >> That's my favorite fake show title of all time. >> And uh I was trying to think of some bizarre place, but they're all taken, I guess. But um anyway, yeah. Way to go, John. Proud of you, man. You're living the American dream, doing it right, starting from nothing. He's sitting there. So let me help you guys with this. He's 55 years old. He's making $200,000 a year

and he's continuing to invest. If he doesn't do that, this this net worth

will roughly double every 7 years cuz it's invested in 401k and good mutual funds, the way we teach, and it's invested in real estate. Okay? And so if he's that means at 62, 3.4 if he does

nothing else. >> Mhm. >> And that means at 69, 7 million if he does nothing else. And

that means at 76, 14 million >> Mhm. >> if he does nothing else. The average death age of a male.

And so this guy passes away at 80 years

old with a 25 or 30 million dollar net worth. That's what this says. >> Yeah. >> That's that's that's where he's going to be just with what he's done so far and he will be adding to it as he goes along. And will have given away hundreds of thousands of dollars. He talked about generosity along the way and changed his

family tree completely permanently. And his mother he says dad immigrated from Germany, right? He didn't say his mom. So I was going to say he says mom's proud though. And um very very cool

stuff. Very cool stuff. So is this possible? Yes, this is possible.

But you have to quit buying crap

you can't afford with money you don't have to impress people you don't really

like. You need to quit playing a game for everyone else and start playing the game for you.

Start playing the game for your family.

When you play that game it's a different game. >> That's right. >> When you take the blinders and put them on and say I don't care what anybody else thinks, all I care is where we end up and that's where John is. Very cool stuff, guys.

Very few wealthy people are concerned about what other people think.

That's how they became wealthy.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day, Luke 9:23.

Then he said to them all, "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me." James Clear from Atomic Habits says, "When you can't win by being better, you can win by being different." Ooh, there's a better idea. I like that one a lot. Don't be normal in a world where normal sucks. There you go. I like that.

Michael in Dallas, what's up?

>> How's it going, sir? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Hey, uh I owe $63,000 on an RV that's worth about 18 to 20,000

dollars. >> How did that happen?

>> Well, I'm 25 and when I was about 23 I

made a dumb decision and bought an RV and lived in it for about 6 months and now I've bought a house and I

have nothing to do with that RV.

>> No, I'm I'm saying the RV actually you bought it for how much?

>> So when I bought it it was $68,000.

>> How long ago? >> And it's 3 years ago. >> So in 3 years it lost $52,000

in value.

>> Yes, sir.

>> Okay, base based on what calculation?

What they offered you for it at the dealer or what the actual market value

is if you try to sell it to an individual?

>> Uh I I've done both. I've looked at selling it um on Facebook, those type of things and nobody's willing to give over $20,000 and the RV dealership, the two

that I've taken it to have only offered me about between 18 and 19,000.

>> Well, if they're willing to give you $19,000 for it, they're able to sell it for 27 somewhere.

>> Yes, sir. >> They're not going to give you 19 for it when nobody is giving more than 20 for that. So your first Facebook thing, that part of the test failed. But we know what wholesale is cuz two dealers have offered you basically the same thing.

>> Yes, sir. >> And you owe how much?

>> I owe $63,000.

There's a little bit of complications on the why I owe that much. Uh

you know, only a $5,000 difference.

Um they just added some more onto my loan. We had some in complications with insurance. I didn't realize I didn't have insurance so uh for about a month and they decided

to throw on an extra $5,000 onto my

loan. >> For for forced place insurance, yeah.

>> Yes, sir. >> Have they taken that back off now that you've gotten a policy in place?

>> Yes, sir. It's it's not off. I still going to have to pay that $5,000 is what they told me no matter what because >> month?

>> Yes, sir. I don't know what calculations or or how they came up with that number, but yes.

>> What do you make a year?

>> Uh my wife and I we make about $130,000.

>> How much money do you have in savings?

>> Not very much. We are we're at the very bottom of the the debt snowball right now. Um >> And you bought a house.

>> Yes, sir. >> While you're broke.

>> Yes, sir. >> Mhm.

>> We're uh we're we're not doing too good right now.

>> Okay.

I don't know how to get you out of this, Michael. I mean that you'd have to borrow the $43,000.

Um and just have an unsecured loan of $43,000.

Um Who holds the loan on this?

>> Uh Alliant Credit Union.

>> Mhm. And what's the interest rate?

>> 10%.

>> Okay.

>> The the bad part is I I'm not only paying the monthly payment, which is $722. I've also got a $100 storage fee

and then a $115 for insurance every month. So, I'm paying about approximately $950 a month for something that I'm not using at all.

>> Yeah. Um

Yeah.

Mhm.

I I I truly do not I'm I'm stumped. I don't know how you get out of this. Um

other than you just pay it down or or sell it and if you can if you have any credit left at all and you can borrow the difference or work with a credit union to sign a note for the difference, at least the bleeding would stop cuz you'd have no insurance and no storage fee and sell the thing for 20 grand and sign a note for 43 and

you know, maybe negotiate some of that away because they got they don't have any collateral.

I mean their collateral's gone.

And so and it's going it's going away really really fast. Um Wow, this is these numbers are just horrendous. I mean there's most most things that have wheels and motors go down in value, but apparently RVs are the worst of everything out there.

>> It was already 5 years old when I bought it. So it was just it was just all around bad.

>> means it was a hundred grand when it was new.

>> Approximately. >> years later it's worth 20.

Talk about burning money. It's like lighting hundred dollar bills on fire.

Oof. You just stand there hold them till your hands get hot.

Wow.

Yeah, the only thing I know to do I think I would stop the bleeding by selling it and signing a note for the difference if you can talk to the credit union into doing that.

And the way you do that is you just say, "Hey look guys, I'm getting ready to hand you the keys to this thing back.

Y'all can have it. You can have your little $5,000 insurance charge. Force placed insurance is valid, but I'm not paying it. And you guys can just sue me. And or I'll sign a note for

the difference and work my way through it cuz I'm the idiot signed up for this trip and I'll get to take it with you.

But you're going to have to help me by letting me get rid of it and whatever it brings, we'll put that on the note and I'll sign a note for the difference. And that gets rid of the insurance bill and that gets rid of the uh uh storage bill and everything else. But

also you've got to start thinking more clearly on your next moves on things cuz

you went and bought a house in the middle of this and that really puts you at further risk. It's It's added to this mess.

And you bought a house, by the way, where you can't park your RV.

Yeah, that's right.

>> You know, that you already owned before you bought the house. >> It's a lot of work in your future. The good news is you're young.

Uh and you guys need to be working multiple jobs and get after this thing like >> long time to clean up $43,000. It's like $43,000 in credit card debt. How fast can you do it making 130? You can do it in a year.

Um and you know, pay it off in a year and be done with it and then you just get to look back and go, "Yep, the dumbest thing I ever did in my life was that RV thing." And um the good news is I don't have to do that dumb thing again. I'll have to find something new to do dumb. >> Why Why does the We've talked about this many, many times. Do you have a hint hint as to why they drop in value?

Is it because they're bringing out new models all the time? What >> I think the market is large enough. I don't I think the resale market is very limited. >> Aha.

>> The number of people buying a in this case 8-year-old RV >> That's what it is. You're right. There's no demand. >> There's no demand and so it's not you know, it'd be like a 20-year-old ski boat.

You know what I mean? It's really difficult to move that product.

I'm not talking about a expensive ski boat like a MasterCraft. I'm talking about just a you know, a stern drive baby. You know, your old Bryants or something like that. Um that thing just deteriorates and nobody wants it.

They're They're just spending a little bit more and go get a new one.

And so that's I think that's what's going on here, but I good lord. All of

you listening that were thinking about ever buying an RV, you should have just went, "I don't think so." >> That's right. >> Man, it's just one I mean, I've I've bought almost everything else with wheels and motors at one time or another and have done some really, really dumb deals on those processes, but the one I've never bought I never bought a never bought a camper never bought an RV.

Somehow I managed to avoid that one mistake. >> I just can't see you hauling down 65 in a giant Winnebago RV.

>> You won't see me. >> People driving by you going, "I think that's Dave Ramsey." >> Driving that Winnebago.

>> You're waving to people as they drive by. >> Chevy Chase-ing it. Yeah.

I don't know. I I I'm not a snob. I just never had that one and I never bought a trailer. I never bought a mobile home either. This is another one I don't >> Same concept on the mobile home as well.

Most people are buying something new so therefore low demand so >> And they just go down in value like a rock. They're just horrible. Horrible.

You can't get out of them. You get stuck in them and poor Michael's just stuck stuck stuck.

Man. Well, you you are wise to be asking questions about it and to be gathering information and try to make the best decision you can and then just roll up your sleeves and live on nothing including no no eating out no vacations until we get the RV paid off. That's an irony. No vacations till we get the RV paid off.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 264. You Can’t Win With Money When Your Relationships Are Messy | December 29, 2025


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This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So, make a change and download Every Dollar today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw and we're answering your questions. So, give us a call at 888255225

and we'll be talking about your life, your money, career, relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you. So, let's start off in Boston with

Miguel. Hi, welcome to the show.

>> Hey, how's it going? >> We're doing well. How can we help today?

>> So, today I wanted to ask uh so I have a business and I'm um I'm contemplating on what I should do next because I'm I'm also 147,000 in debt. And that's including credit cards, student loans, and a car payment.

>> Okay. So, I want to know if I should sell a business, um, for what I think I

give value for and then start fresh and then use that lump sum of money to attack like the debt.

>> What kind of business are you in?

>> Uh, it's a printing business, so merchandise. >> What would cause you >> What would cause you to sell the business versus using profit from the

business to pay down the debt?

I think it's just because I'll collect a lump sum of money and like the business right now is kind of, you know, fluctuating. It's up and down. Um, and

I'm also alone in it. So, it's a lot of my time >> where I feel like I if I could change the >> If you didn't have debt, Miguel, would you stay in this business

>> or would you still want out? >> Uh, yeah. >> You would stay in I'll potentially stay in the business. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Because I look at this as I mean because I mean well how much would you sell it for? How much could you get out of it >> minus all of your liabilities and everything?

>> About 30 grand.

>> How much are you making off of it every year? How much are you bringing home?

>> So this is actually like my first year in it. Um so I'd know at at the end of

the year but roughly after everything about 1,500 bucks a month. 1,500 a month. And this is this what you do full-time or is this kind of like a side business?

>> Uh, it's full-time.

>> Well, I don't know that I would sell it.

Uh, but I would not have this being my full-time job right now because of what it's generating. It feels like >> How are you guys How are you guys living? Is your wife work?

>> Uh, no. I'm single. >> You're single. How are you living off of $1,500 a month?

Uh just just making it happen honestly.

>> But what's your rent though? Like real numbers.

>> Uh I paid uh studio it's about $850.

>> Mhm. What else? Car.

>> Uh car. Yeah. 450. And then >> Woo. 450. Okay. >> Anything else? >> Yeah. >> And then utilities. I guess that's put in with the rent. And then just you're scrapping on food. No insurance.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you have insurance?

health insurance. >> Well, like car my cards.

>> No, no, no. No health insurance.

>> Yeah. So, you're not on a you're not on a living wage right now. And so, while I

think it's cool to have a printing business, this uh it eats like a a part-time side hustle when we look at the the the income that it's bringing.

So, I would be looking as you're working

this, I'd be looking for a full-time job. What are your what are your skills?

What have you done in the past before you did this business?

I I technically just hopped out of school and then saved money and then started this business. >> Yeah. How many hours a week?

>> I've never really >> How many hours a week are you putting into this?

>> A lot. It's probably like 50 60.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um Okay. So, if you

did, do you have a buyer out there? Like when you say sell the business, I mean, what's that? Have you have you looked into that option? Is there a realistic option?

Yeah, I have Yeah, I have a few options.

And that's >> when I mean the business, I just mean like the equipment and everything. Yeah.

Um >> Oh, I hear what you're saying. Not necess Yeah. Okay. Yes. >> Cuz that's where the debt is, right? What did you invest in to do this business?

>> Like what what equipment do you have?

>> Oh, I have like DTG printer, heat presses, >> um and a couple other machines,

>> you know, >> desktops and stuff like that. I I'll I'll tell you. Um

you've you haven't been doing the business long, so I don't want to say that there's no future in it. Like, but how much of this debt is business debt?

Like, how much of it came from the business?

>> Um about eight grand.

>> Okay, that's not bad. Of the 147, that's only eight. I I'm inclined for you to continue. I I what I want to know is

what's the minimal amount of hours that you can put in it to keep the 1500

so that you can search for something else. Is there any feasible way to do that?

>> Yeah, it's possible. That's that's also another plan I've been thinking of because I have a location um in the premier like downtown area. So, I was thinking of just getting rid of the space >> um trying to find something smaller and then um >> kind of just work on based off orders I get. >> Yeah. so much like being in there.

>> Do you have consistent clients that you're reprinting for >> or is it a one and done? >> For the most part, >> uh, a little bit of both, but I do have I I've picked up a few clients that are picking up, you know, monthly.

>> Yeah. And is most of the hours when you're saying I'm working 50 hours on this, is it most of it in the actual physical printing that you're having to do or is it trying to find new clients and marketing and thinking of creative ways to get your name out there?

Uh, a little bit of both, but mo mainly the the printing process, like printing and and being in there.

>> Okay. Okay. Yeah. So, I'm with Jade. I mean, Miguel, if you have all the equipment and it is bringing in, 1500, obviously, that's not that's not sustainable long term for you to live like that. Obviously, you know that or you probably wouldn't be calling the show. Um, so it's November. A part of me

would give give it another six months while doing something else. Like, you need to go wait tables. I mean, you could make more money doing that. I mean, something, right?

you need to go be doing something and if you can keep this on the side and actually get some clientele you could >> I don't know and if you yes grow it and then maybe that be your full-time or you just have these clients and you start making 3,000 a month while also still working to get out of all the credit all the debt that you talked about at the beginning of this call.

hold tight for like maybe six months.

give yourself a a time period though to say okay I don't go into any more debt in it >> uh but to say can I pick up any more steam in this business uh in the next

six to nine months and if you can't then sure sell the equipment and then that will give you some money >> um but we just see this Jade and I both I think yeah >> uh as a great side hustle for right now while you go get a full-time job somewhere else >> the fact that you've started generating money so quickly from it I think is good and you have made an investment in some equip commitment and it feels like worth it to try to play that out a little longer. But I like what Rachel said on putting a timeline on it.

>> So I would do that, Miguel. Or just throwing this out there kind of the other side of the coin is if you hate it and you're not enjoying it, but you I think you are liking it in some degree because you said you'd still stay in it if you didn't have debt.

yeah find something just full-time, sell the stuff, and you start a whole new life where you're not feeling like you have to carry a business, right? Because it does it's a lot of strain and mental

calories to do that. Um, so I don't know, kind of two different options, but either way, you got to get a second job either way. >> Agree. Agree, >> Rich. Yeah. Um, I hope that helps. I

know that sometimes the when we just tell people, cut your expenses and get a job. I know it feels tough, but truly that is that is the remedy. You don't have expenses to cut. You're bare bones as it is.

So, the next line of defense is getting more income. That's how it works. >> Yeah. Um, and Ken Coleman has a book, Find the Book.

find I'm sorry, find the work you're wired to do and we'll send that to you because there's a great >> um it's on a quiz assessment at the back. Yeah. To kind of figure out maybe this will help kind of narrow some possible career paths for you too, Miguel, that you can just kind of brainstorm and think.

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with the last caller. We were talking about real estate and what that looks like to start saving up towards a home.

And you guys, when it comes to buying and selling your home, there's a lot of decisions. It can feel very overwhelming, but you don't have to go that through that process alone. We created Ramsay's real estate home base.

So, this is a place with so many resources and tools like calculators, start to finish guides, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, a video course, like everything around the subject of real estate >> because again, buying and selling, it can just it can be an overwhelming process. And the more information you have that you understand and you know, the more clarity you're going to have walking into that, which is huge. Like you you want to be armed with so much information before you go and buy or sell your home. So, make sure to check it out at ramiesolutions.com/realestate or click the link in the description if you're watching on YouTube or listening on podcast.

Uh because if you need some next steps towards your home buying or home selling process, make sure to check it out. And one of my favorite things on it is the dashboard. They have the US housing market trends >> and they keep it updated and it's just constantly kind of a kind of a pulse of what's going on with interest rates, median house home prices in America, um total days on the market, um how many homes are for sale around the country. I mean, it just kind of gives you the snapshot picture of the real estate market.

All right, we're going to the phones and we're going to Andrew in Oh, Cheyenne, Wyoming. One of my favorite one of my favorite country songs.

>> Hey, Andrew. Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Hey, so I'm on um my wife and I were on Baby Step 2. Um and it it kind of took

us a little bit to get there, mostly because we've been um we've been pretty sick, both of us, um for the past few years. and we're seeking some medical treatment to hopefully nip this in the bud um hopefully in a in a few short

months. But the medical treatment that we're looking at that was recommended by our doc is experimental and it's not covered by insurance and the treatment going to be between $10 to $30,000.

So we're kind of in a position where we

>> Oh no. Andrew, are you there? Andrew.

>> Oh no. >> Oh man. >> Andrew, we'll give you one more second.

Oh, yep. That's a bad line, I think. Um,

we're going Oh, there you are. You're back. Good. >> Sorry. >> No, you're good. You're good. >> My phone's a little weird. >> Um, so, um, yes. I don't know if my wife

and I should actually, um, take out a loan or not. We really don't want to.

Um, especially since we're >> Can I ask and share as much as as you feel comfortable, but what's what's going on health-wise?

Um we we were um so we we got pretty

sick from the the the home that we were living in. Oh. >> Um and so >> like multiple >> it's been >> Yeah. So it's just been a lot of stuff that's been going on where um a lot of the treatments have been not either FDA approved or um treatments have been getting us better.

We're we are better, but it's it's just been a really long process. So, the last time we talked with our doctor, he said that >> um we should try and do um like a hyperaric treatment, which um seems great. You know, he's had great really great success with it, but um the only problem is that the the payment has to be upfront.

only issue insurance. This is obviously something more like in a natural bent, I'm assuming. So, insurance isn't going to cover it.

>> No, insurance won't cover it.

>> Tell me um just healthwise, are you guys able to are you able to work? Are you able to function? Like how are you guys? You said you're doing better. I'm just trying to get a gauge about how urgent this this is for you guys.

>> Yeah. So So we are better. Um and we are

both working right now. Um we make about I want to say close to 70 or $80,000 um

right now a year. >> Okay. >> Um the you know only problem with this

is that the the longer you put it off the worse it'll get. >> Sure. >> Um and so it just >> What's your margin every month? like what are you right now putting towards debt and baby step two that you could put potentially towards saving up for this or doing one at a time?

>> Yeah, we're able to put um close to $600

or so a month into debt. Um

>> and how much debt do you guys have? We right now we have about um I want to say

about $20,000 in student loan debt and then about 50,000 in a um in a business

loan. >> Okay. >> Okay.

Um, man, this is so hard because I do

feel like there just from my own, not my

own experience, but people within my close circles of friends and family even that I know, you know, when you get something, it's like autoimmune or mold or whatever that it it it can end up feeling Andrew like >> there's always something else we have like there's a long line of things that are continual. Mhm.

>> And so what I, you know, always just think about and kind of caution is I would number one maybe get a second opinion. I'm sure you know your doctor well and trust them, but you know, I mean, we're talking about 10 to $30,000, right? I mean, if it was $2,000 um that's one thing, but I mean, you're you're talking, you know, um five figures going in um with treatments. And

so, >> is that a piece or all in?

>> That would be for us combined. Um, I would, >> and is this ongoing or is it kind of a one time?

>> Lord willing, it'd be it'd be just a one time like, you know, one one to two months worth of treatment. So, it' be >> okay. >> You know, 20 20 sessions is like is about $10,000 on the high end. So, we hope to be done in about a month.

>> Okay. So, you know what what I would probably do because again, I feel like this can sometimes feel like a never- ending >> Yeah. >> cycle. Um I would I would um and because

it's not a and I know you you guys are saying I don't want to downplay at all the sickness cuz I'm sure it's just miserable but it's not a life or death like okay I have to save my child right now because you know there's a you know like it's not this it's not an urgency but it is something for the betterment of your health you want.

>> So what you know what I would probably strive to do is whatever I could to get because 10 to 30 is a big range. So I would get as close to that 10 and I would talk negotiate doctor's bill. I mean, I would do whatever I could >> to get it down to that 10. And you guys are s, you know, I would work to save a,000 a month.

I would be okay right now because it is a health issue, maybe to pause the debt snowball, stay current on your bills. But I would bump that 600 a month up to a,000 and save for 10 months and then starting October, November, Andrew, start this treatment and then hopefully by this time next year, you're through it, you're done, and then press play on the baby steps >> and maybe one of you goes at a time to see if it's helpful. >> Oh, that's a good point. you know, I know you're two different bodies with two different sets of, you know, but that might be a good way to say, listen, I did it.

It did nothing for me or I did it and it really really helped. That might give you some confidence going into the next treatment. It's just a thought like I don't know what you're facing.

again I'm not I don't want to downplay it either but if it's something that's more of an annoyance that you're learning to live through that gives you you know there's a little bit more timeline there to get this done >> for sure and the sense too that um you

know you don't want to prolong it too long because of what you're saying you know it can come back and get worse unless you have this treatment so >> getting to it right a level of urgency But it's also not the only option and we're done. like if you can and it's not debilitating cuz you guys are working and all of that.

>> That's also true. >> Um but yeah, so again I'm so sorry that is that's stuff that is like and that's and that has been I don't know. I don't know if you've I've just had people and it's like >> you you go to the next thing and then it flares up again. I know it just feels like it's like whack-a-ole a little bit sometimes with different things. So, I do want you guys to get that treatment, but um but because it's not it's not

life or death right in this moment, I would I would calm down, you know, I would I would pause a little bit and save up for it. >> That's difficult. I remember um when Sam and I were getting out of debt. This was before the days of Obamacare and you had to have insurance or else you were penalized.

We didn't have insurance and one day he was pulling our luggage out of the back of the Jeep and it got caught on his finger and he broke his finger. >> Oh no.

tape it up >> it's crooked to this day and you know he plays instruments >> it wasn't good >> take care of yourself insurance this is the Ramsay Go.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Up next

in Boone, North Carolina, we have Sierra

on the line. Hi Sierra. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thank you.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Um, so my husband and I are living

paycheck to paycheck and I was

introduced to Dave Ramsey from my grandmother. Um, now I have been trying

for the past six months and I'm stuck on baby step one. Um, and we're not getting

anywhere. We had half of baby step one

and then everything happened with the hurricane and we're back to zero.

>> Oh man. >> Were you guys hit hard? Was were you one of the towns?

>> Yeah, we were. >> So sorry.

>> It's okay. It happens.

But I'm just I feel like we can't catch a break. And living paycheck to paycheck is so hard for us. I am a full-time student, um, college student. I'm 29 and

my husband works full-time, sometimes even over like overtime shifts >> just so that we can get by. And I just I don't know what to do anymore. >> What What's he bringing in income wise?

>> About 49 to 50,000 a year.

>> Okay. And when do you graduate?

>> Um, I have about five semesters left, so

I'll be finishing up in 2027.

>> Okay. >> Wow. Okay. Are you are you working at all, Sierra?

>> Um, I'm not, but I pick up petsitting shift um to try and bring in some money.

I tried a full-time job and full-time

college and it destroyed me.

>> Okay. What uh what are you getting your degree in?

>> Um, biology. And what's the goal with that? What What do you want to do?

>> Um uh I want to go work on the coast as

a marine biologist.

>> Wow. Okay. Okay. So, you're he's bringing in 49,000. You're doing pet sitting. How much do you guys see a month? Like after taxes, after everything? What does that look like monthly for you?

>> Um it's about 3

3,500.

>> Okay. And what how are you guys living?

Are you renting? What are you paying for rent? We are renting. Um we pay a th000 a month for rent. >> Okay.

Um yeah, this is tough. Um

the solution that you're looking for, I mean, people live paycheck to paycheck for different reasons. Sometimes it's our spending's out of control and we've got to, you know, re the budget in and rein the spending in and sometimes it really is a income issue. And it's in this case, I think you're creeping up on an income issue. Um, I'm just wondering

what is what is your husband doing for work? What kind of work does he do?

>> Um, he makes fiber optic cables.

>> Okay. And and you said he had a side hustle, too. What's that?

>> Um, he door dashes.

>> Okay. So, I'm wondering I'm wondering if

both of you need to sit down and kind of figure out, okay, what do we both need to do in order to make this work?

because to your own words it's not sustainable. Are you guys going into debt? Like how are you covering the overages?

>> Um we are door dashing every chance that we can get. Okay. >> Um just so like I can get to class and

we can get food and sometimes his mom helps us out. >> Okay. So there's not you're covering the overage then.

Mhm. >> So, there's part of this and and there may be more that you can do income-wise, but there is part of this where you've said, "Okay, I'm going to go to school for the next >> uh three years and I'm going to become a marine biologist." And by me doing that, here's what we've decided. My income is limited >> and he's in his career right now. And so, there's part of this that you guys have decided by, you know, by choosing this path.

And I'm not saying it's a bad thing. It's just we've both understood that for the next 3 years it's going to be extremely tight, but there's a light at the end of that tunnel because you're going to be a marine biologist.

>> Um, it kind of depends. Um, I'm trying to get a state job. Um, and that can

range anywhere from 50,000 to 70,000.

>> Okay. Great. And how are you paying for school? >> Um, right now I am pretty set uh with

financial aid and scholarships. Um, I've already finished my associates and >> Good for you. Very good. >> Went through that with honors. So, I've been doing pretty well with scholarships. >> So, no debt, no loans. >> Yeah. Do you guys have any other debt or any debt at all? >> Um, >> yes. Uh, I have three credit cards, but

it only adds up to about a,000, maybe

>> 1500. And I have a car.

>> How much is that?

Um the total on it's 28,000 and I pay um

668 there's a problem. Sierra, you got to sell that car. >> You got to sell it. >> See, and I'm trying to figure out how to sell it. >> I'm not sure because I'm $13,000 flipped

on this car. >> Oh, >> wow. >> So you So you owe 28,000 and how much?

And you're saying you really can't sell it except for 15,000 is what it's worth.

>> Um when I had it cuz I went and had it appraised at a dealership and they said they can only give you 6,000 for it.

>> Okay. So don't do the dealership route because they will always give you a much lower rate than what you could actually sell it private sale for. So go on kelly

kell Kellybluebook.com put in all the info and just see on the high end what you could get for it.

Okay. Um, so the the dealership told you how much would they pay for it?

>> 6,000. >> Oh my gosh. >> Wait, $6,000 and it's a 28 and you owe 28,000. What kind of car is it?

>> It's a 2017 Jeep Cherokee and I have

162,000 miles on it.

>> Okay. What What does your husband drive?

What's his deal?

>> Um, he has a motorcycle that's paid for.

>> Got you. >> And um, we have a we call it a hooptie.

Um, and it's it's just a really old

beater that's also paid for.

>> What about the motorcycle? What's it worth? >> Uh, about 4,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah, I would um Okay. I think Yeah, I

would be selling this car Sierra for sure. And even if it's >> even if you can only get 16,000 for it, I would rather have a $16,000 loan >> than a $28,000 loan. Does that make sense? Like that's gonna that's going to change your numbers a whole lot.

>> And if I were you guys, do you guys have kids? >> We have a 2-year-old. >> You have a 2-year-old? Okay. Um Yeah. I mean, I >> I might sell the motorcycle and take the 4,000 and get a beater car for you >> and then sell your car.

>> Yeah. >> I mean, honestly, because you can always go back and get a motorcycle again, but you guys I mean to your point >> I mean it's going to cut that payment down when she gets a loan for whatever it is possibly. Yeah. I mean, it'd be Yeah, you guys would have an extra $300 a month coming in.

>> Yeah. >> So, there and there's decisions, Sierra, and I think Jade set it up really well.

Um, and it's a it's a it's kind of a hard pill to swallow in life, but it's understanding that, you know, as adults, we make decisions around our life, and not all of them bad. >> Yeah. Not all of them are right or wrong. It's not this, you know, oh gosh, you shouldn't be in school right now.

It's not that at all. It is though we have decided to do this route and

because of that we're not going to have a lot of money like we're going to be we're gonna feel broke for three years until I get through school and until I

get a job and all that and in three years it's going to look different but in the meantime what can we do what other decisions can we make that are going to be adult-like decisions >> that may hurt and they're not fun but it's things like getting the extra job like you guys are doing. selling stuff to see what you can free up. It's getting out of debt and, you know, freeing up income. >> Cutting up those credit cards.

>> Cutting up credit cards. Yeah. I mean, it's doing a couple of these um making some of these decisions within the big decision of the lifestyle you guys have made just to make it easier, Sierra.

You know, we talk about financial peace is what we want for everyone. And that peace is going to look different depending on, you know, everyone's situation and, you know, the way they view life and all of it. It's a little bit of, you know, subjective to a degree, but you don't have peace right now. And so, what I would fight so hard for is in these three years, >> how can we get some peace?

And being able to free up some money >> would bring some of that. And how do we do that? Well, I just listed out a couple options from jobs and selling stuff and all of it. So, um, that's >> what the long term that you've committed to.

Like once she starts working, she's got a great pathway to make $70,000. And >> Yeah. And then together with your husband, >> Yeah. Yeah, y'all will be making, you know, 130,000 before taxes.

amazing. So, the light is coming. Uh, but it's getting to the light that I think is really key. And what decisions can we make in between? And these are hard, Sierra. I understand like these aren't fun. It's not always fun, but it's getting you to a goal that you guys want together. And part of that is you still being in school. So, I commend you for having a 2-year-old and doing this.

And and I'm so sorry about the devastation in your area. We we we think about you guys so much. Um, so we're praying for you. Thanks for the call.

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You're listening to the Ramsay Show. We help people with your life, your money, your relationships. If that's you, you want to get in on the action, you can call us up. It's a live show. The number is 88888255225

and we'll get you on the line. Today's question, today's Ramsey Show question of the day is sponsored by Y Refi. When you're trapped in a maze of defaulted private student loan debt, it's hard to find your way out, but Y refi can offer you a lifeline with custom refinancing based on your ability to pay and a lump sum payoff option that you could qualify after 20 qualify for after 24 months. So

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Lauren in New Mexico. I currently own three rental properties and have 30-year mortgages on two of them. You say to have 15-year mortgages because you pay it off faster. If I am putting my profits from my rental toward my principal on a 30-year mortgage and can pay it off in 15 years, is there a need to switch it to a 15-year mortgage?

What's the reasoning behind the 15-year mortgage? I make more profits with a lower monthly payment, which puts more

money towards the principal.

Well, Lauren, for starters, we would say not to even have rental property uh if you're not able to pay cash for it. So

technically speaking, um I mean if you could pay it off quickly, I would probably just sell one and throw some of the equity uh at the other and make that a goal to to sell it. But having Yeah.

three rentals um that have mortgages on

them, yeah, not not the not the best idea. Not really the Ramsy way to do it.

But for your primary home, we do say a

15. Even though people, you know, this is one of those that I feel like is is a a slippery slope because, you know, a lot of people will still do the 30 and, you know, whatever it is, but of course, >> but the thing to remember is that your intentions don't always line up with reality. So, if you have the intention of paying a 30 like a 15,

>> you know, stuff happens and you're like, "Oh, yeah, well, we won't pay extra this month. We'll make sure to catch up next month." M >> and then something else happens and you end up usually not paying it truly like

like a 30. You don't um now when you're paying off your house in the baby steps, we do find that people are paying their houses off in like 9 to 11 years. That's right. Which is amazing. So I think that 15-year fixed rate mortgage that we talk about, it just locks you in to a plan to

get you out of debt faster with the guarantee that you will get get it paid off in 15 years. >> It makes you accountable. And let's be let's call a spade a spade. The truth is if you go with a 30-year, you're not paying as much, so you get more house.

>> Yes. >> And I think truthfully, when people want that, they want more house. And not when you're locked into 15 though, it's like, okay, maybe suddenly I can't afford what I thought I could get. >> Yes. >> So look at the And that's the thing.

That's what's so always interesting with houses is that you're going to qualify for a lot more a house and what they will give you than what you necessarily need or even what's good for you financially. So, we always talk about having at least 5% to put down for a down payment. >> Your payment being no more than 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate, which I always say we understand that is a very conservative >> formula uh when it comes to to the housing situation. But just like our last caller, you guys, like you see people like get into housing situations and it and it takes half their income or maybe one spouse chooses to stay home but you can't cuz you built your life around, you know, having a dual income and it it just starts to limit your choices.

The deeper you go into debt, >> the longer you're in debt, it just limits limits your life choices on what you can and can't do. Uh because it's telling you basically what to do. So that's it, Lauren.

Let's talk to Greg. He's in Buxy, Mississippi. What's going on, Greg?

Hey Jaden, Rachel, it's it's so good to

be talking to y'all. I'm fangirling a little bit right now, not gonna lie. >> Glad you're here.

>> Um, so I have been listening for a

little over a year, but the month before I started listening, I co-signed on a truck >> for my now for my now ex- fiance.

>> Oh, Greg, I'm sorry.

>> Yeah, rough situation. Um so we had

agreed uh once things ended that

uh hey you know we can keep the loan as it is for a year uh cuz we needed to

wait for the um maturity date.

>> Okay. Um, and so it's coming up on that

and just in talking to her on occasion, she most likely is not in a position to

refinance it on her own and she has said

that her parents or anyone else won't help her. >> Good for them. >> So I Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, just

from my from my perspective,

uh, I I'm not quite sure how I can get myself out of this. Have you tried persuading her to sell it and start over fresh on her own?

>> I have. Uh, she is not completely

opposed to the idea, but I don't think I

can really rely on her actually following that through. >> Can I ask a question? And I promise it

does kind of relate to this. Who broke up with who? >> No, you're good. Uh, I ended things with her. >> Okay. There >> makes it a little stickier. It makes it stickier because this this is a tie to you. >> This is a way for you to still be in her life. And I >> getting pulled over, Greg.

>> No. Uh there's an alarm going off somewhere. >> I WAS LIKE, "OH, NO. ARE YOU TRYING getting pulled over?" >> Um but my point is like this is a tie to you. And if it if things were different,

I'd say you could make the argument of like, "Hey, you broke things off and I want a clean break and I I need to, you know, be free from this." Like you could make that argument, but in this case it does make it a little tough. Um, how much is the loan for?

>> Uh, there's about 27 left on it.

>> Okay, >> man. How much is it worth? Do you know?

>> Uh, I I actually did look up the Kelly Blue Book a couple weeks ago and it said

that private party sale was uh tops like

23. >> Oh gosh. And it's upside down. Yeah.

Okay. >> Yeah. This I think this is only going to get worse. Um, so I would really

encourage her to sell it and I'd be strong on that. I'd say, listen, there's a reason that you can't re I mean, the math is like the the logical reason is there's a reason you can't refinance this. And the reason is the bank has looked at your financial situation and said it's not stable. You cannot afford this on your own, which means they expect you to default, which means I'm here for when you default.

That's what that means. And I don't know what the hard part is. I don't know if your relationship is there for you to even talk to her like that anymore, but that's the truth of the matter. >> I know.

Cuz I mean, if you can't you can't make her no do anything. And so, you really are kind of at the mercy of >> of her. I'm like, you can't go in and you know, you know, take your name off the loan in secret, right? I mean, like, yeah.

>> So, yeah, you're in a Yeah, you're in a tough position, Greg. And it's kind of one of those um I'm sorry that you're going to have to be one of the sad examples that we'll probably use this week to say when someone calls. I should, you know, my my girlfriend wants me to cosign. We're gonna say, "Talk to Greg in Beluxy." Greg would tell you, "Don't do this because this is what happens." >> My family agrees. My My family agrees that this is the dumbest decision I've made in my life.

>> Oh, man. I mean, unless you can just

convince her because you're a great salesman. Uh, but coming from an ex- fiance, she's probably not going to want to listen >> to her to your advice. I mean, you broke her heart. Sorry, Greg.

And now you're you're I mean yeah there's nothing you can do. So I think it's one of those stupid texts. >> Um you know and I'm praying she doesn't default. >> Me too.

>> And she just pays this and and gets out of it. But you but that >> she has been very consistent on the payment for that.

>> Uh oh gosh it's almost seven.

>> Oh gosh. I mean listen the most practical thing you can do to be ready for this storm is >> if she defaults. >> Is if if she defaults. and to be ready if you kind of have some money packed away on the side because if she doesn't pay it, it reflects on you.

And when it's time for you to buy a house or when it's time for you to do some of the things that you want to do, if you still have a credit score laying around, which you will because of this, it will make it bad. And as we've talked about on the show, having a bad credit score is very difficult.

So, if I were in your shoes, which this is the game we like to play, I would be,

which by the way, we don't know much about your financial situation. Do you have debt?

>> Uh, I the truck technically and then um

I have about 22,000 in student loans I'm working on. I've already gotten rid of the credit card debt and >> uh I'd go I'd go gung-ho on your debt.

I'd work the baby steps on that and then when I was through, I would be mindful of keeping some money stacked up.

>> Yeah. for your emergency fund knowing this is something you may have to dip into. And I would tell her too, Greg, you don't want to emotionally be attached anymore, right? And this keeps you guys somewhat together in a weird state >> for the future. So, I'm sorry.

>> I hate that that's happening to you. All right, that does it for this hour of the show. Stick around. We'll be right back with you before you know it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz and we are going to the phones. First up, we have Donna in San

Antonio. Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it. >> Yes, absolutely.

Okay. So, my husband has a student loan

that is currently in deferment. It's been in deferment over 10 years. Um, but

prior to that, it was in default. It ballooned from 65,000 to 340,000.

>> We got >> Yeah, pretty scary.

>> I know. I know. There was some fraud involved. We tried to take care of it with some attorneys. We were not able to get anywhere. We're stuck with it. We got married four years ago. His situation is he's 66, close to retirement. He doesn't really have any assets, not really no any no savings.

I'm 57, probably going to work for another 5 years. I've got about 1.4 million in investment assets which are owned free and clear. We both have a joint account

with Charles Schwab, which has about 200,000 in it, but it's fully funded by me. And then we have two other properties in both of our names. Couple of questions. How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him?

I'm willing to pay up to 100,000 for it.

And how do I protect myself?

>> Are they private loans or federal loans?

>> So, um, they're federal loans.

>> Gosh, >> they they were they were Well, I believe they're federal loans. See, I've had trouble with this. They were federal loans and then they were consolidated.

>> Okay. Um, so and from what I understand,

you know, I've been to so many different places and I keep hitting a brick wall.

It's like nobody can really give me the right answers.

>> Um, I've been told I I can't negotiate.

>> If they're federal, you can't negotiate.

If they're private, >> um, you can, but if the whole lump of them, if that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe.

>> So, what what's his best route? Um, does he just keep deferring it? No, I mean he he will never be able to pay these off.

You know, he'll never be able to pay it.

>> So, what tell me about the properties because I I'm going to here I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do and then we'll explain it. We're going to approach this as any married couple would who is dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life, in money, and all of those things. And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to. But let's talk about these properties because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off.

Um I'm just >> Well, there there's Yeah, there's definitely money.

I mean, we've only been married four years. All of those assets are mine. I

mean, I've done what I needed to do and I've built >> How many marriages have you guys had in the past, Donna? Is this Is this >> He's been married once before and so have I. >> Okay. So, it's both second marriages.

Okay. Did you do a prenup at all?

Um, no. We didn't do a We have our wills, but we didn't do a prenup. No.

>> Okay. What can I ask a little bit about that? Um, so I'm hearing you talk and it

sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built.

>> Um, but you didn't sign a prenup, which makes me wonder about that. Like, how did you how did you view that?

>> I didn't realize how um, you know, I

don't know. What can I say? We're soulmates, you know. I mean, >> okay, listen, that's good to know.

>> We're soulmates and and you know, he's a wonderful man. And I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him. I'm more concerned about protecting my assets against somebody coming in and swooping in, a lender coming in and taking. >> Got it.

Okay. So, in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it it sounded at first like when you said, "Oh, I'm only willing to put a h 100red,000 towards this." It sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him, right? Like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt. That's the way it sounded at first.

But now it sounds like that's not the issue. And if that's the case, can you tell us about these properties?

>> All it's all real estate basically. Um and again, they're all owned free and clear, >> right? >> How much how much are each of the properties?

Um, how much am I into the properties?

Probably, you know, five or 600,000.

>> So, tell us probably around five or 600.

>> Tell us property one. What's property one worth?

>> Um, so I've got um a condo which is

probably worth around 200,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, I've got another house which is around 250.

Um, I've got another condo which is probably also around um 200,000.

>> Are they all owned free and clear?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> Good for you. You've done great. Donna, did you know about his debt going into the marriage?

>> I didn't I knew he What happened is his

his wife his previous wife handled all the finances. She was a stay-at-home.

She did some funky stuff with their finances and he did he thought his he thought his student loans were paid off.

>> He didn't realize until suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year that he

was in default. He didn't even know.

>> Got it. >> So it really was like a big shock and then you know he just sometimes men just

ignore things.

>> Yeah. It was I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him and he pretty much just put it to the side. So, I knew there was something. I didn't realize. >> How many years did he put it to the side?

>> Uh, probably about 13 years total.

>> Okay. So, there's there's enough of a um

that the shock has worn off and then we can address reality that he chose not to, though. >> Right. Well, now that's got to bother you, right? Does that bother you? Is that >> Of course it does. Of course it does.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

>> Um but right now I'm committed to the relationship. I'm committed to my husband and I want to figure out.

>> And you guys are in your what? 50. Did you say you're >> 57 and 66? >> He's Yeah. Yeah. He's 66. I'm 57.

>> Okay. And he has Why does he have no What What's he been doing like like with retirement and all that?

>> He he pretty much uh gave everything to

her in the divorce.

>> Situations. >> He He There was like no contest. Just give her what she wants. >> Give her what she wants. Yeah. Yeah.

Um, is he working?

>> Um, he works for me actually. I have a business. Okay. So, he does work for me.

Yeah. >> Okay. How much is he making?

>> Um, we just have him making something like around 50,000. So, we've been keeping it low. You know, we do we do sort of um um you know, uh W2. We

>> Is real estate your business? Is is that your business? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, so there's I I hear two things going on here. Um, I think you're committed to this guy. I, you know, great. I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off. That's probably the choice that I would make. I think you guys

>> I'm worried that

>> and I'm I'm going to say this ever so delicately. There's a there's a balance of power here that is feels off

>> and I think that if you don't address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line.

>> And I think you need to sit with Do you see what I'm saying? >> I think you need understand that completely. you need to sit with somebody and work through this because it almost feels like you're kind of just

taking care of this guy.

And it shouldn't feel like that. You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing whatever it is they're going to contribute. But you should feel good about it.

Wow.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show. Up next, we have Brent in Cincinnati, Ohio.

Hey, Brent. Welcome to the show.

>> Hi, Rachel.

>> Hello. How can we help?

>> So, I'm wondering if I'm able to purchase um a a car for my wife. We've been

leasing to own for the three years and

upcoming December, we can purchase it for $19,000.

>> Oh. Um, the same car is valued at

23,000.

>> Okay. So, you've been leasing it for 3 years. What was it worth when you started? I'm just wondering how much it's depreciated.

How much?

No. How much was it worth?

>> 28,000. >> Okay. Okay. And now it's worth 19, but you're saying you've seen it other places for 23. Is that what you're telling me? Yes. With the same mileage, the same year. >> Oh, so it >> looks like a good deal. >> Yeah. Do you have the money? And do you like the car?

>> We like the car, but we don't have the money. So, we'd be getting a loan through my uh credit union.

>> Oh.

And what's the alternative? You just give it up?

>> Yes.

Do you have any >> My wife's very attached to the vehicle and doesn't really want to consider any

cheaper options.

>> Yeah, I listen I can understand that. Go ahead. >> Well, yeah. Why is she attached to it?

She just likes it a lot.

>> She likes it a lot. >> Okay. Well, the fact that she's not going to be able to consider Is she sitting there with you, Brent? Tell her hi for us. >> Yeah. >> What's her name?

>> Elizabeth. >> Hey, Elizabeth. >> Elizabeth. Um, so, um, yeah, I mean,

when you put yourself in a position when you purchase something and say, "Well, I'm just not I I don't want to look at anything cheaper." >> You've kind of already made your decision. I mean, if you guys don't have the money and you don't want to look at anything cheaper, I mean, I guess the only thing that you guys have decided at that point is, yeah, you're going to take a loan out and and buy the car. We would advise you differently.

>> Um, and so you called the show, so we'll give you our advice. I don't know if you're going to want to take it. Um because what you realize is you've been you've been basically renting this car for three years >> in the most expensive way possible. >> In the most expensive way.

Yeah. And I know you know you can't really tell the interest rate on a lease car, but when people, you know, actually ratio it out, it's it's high. It's it's usually more expensive than if you went got a traditional car loan.

So, when it comes to cars, it is one of

the places that financially speaking,

uh, I mean, it's kind of one of the dumbest debts you can you can get into from a financial perspective because again, you're borrowing money and paying more on that borrowed money because of interest on an asset that's going down in value versus like a house, a mortgage, right? You take out a mortgage, you do pay interest on that loan, but the value of that home is going up at the same time. So, the car

itself is not a wise purchase to make

when you don't have cash for it. So, my next question to you guys would be, do you have any cash available to you?

>> Do we have No, we don't.

>> We're still trying to get over some credit card debt. >> Okay, good. >> How much How much debt do you guys have?

>> We have 4,000 on the credit card and

then we have >> um a few monthly payments.

>> How what are those? We're still we're paying off our wedding rings which we

have 7,000 left over.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> And then we have some um a personal loan

or paying back my parents >> which will be of about 2500 left.

>> Okay. >> And I'm doing 500 every paycheck.

>> Okay. >> So about towards the end of January the 500 a month will clear up.

>> Okay. How much you guys make a year?

>> Close to 40,000 a year >> combined. >> Combined?

>> Yes. >> Is are you both working?

>> Um, my wife is looking at getting a new job that could make more money soon, but

we just don't have the money yet. And I don't want to make decisions on we'll have more money later. Yeah.

>> I want to make the decision on what we have now. >> Absolutely. Which is very wise. It's very, very wise. So, yeah, a $40,000 income. There's no way I would take a $19,000 loan for a car. You can't afford it. >> Do you guys have kids yet?

>> No, not yet. >> Listen, I'm going to throw something wild out here and roll it over in your minds and in your hearts tonight, but she's not working yet. You don't have children. When it comes time for this lease, like, you let it go. But if you have to be a onecar family for a couple of months while you save up, what's the harm in that?

>> Just a thought. >> Yeah, >> I suggest that. My husband and I did that uh while we were trying to get out of debt. >> We got rid of one of our vehicles and we were upside down, but we got a small loan for it to get out of it.

And then we had one just our single car. We paid it off and then we actually found that it was doable for us for quite a while and we stayed that way. And then when it was ready time for us to have a second car, we bought it in cash.

guys in this season of your life, that actually might work out better for you than a lot of other couples because she's not really working yet. And and I'm going to say this, Brent, and I'm going to be very as kind and fun as Rachel is. This comes through, but the

what the life you guys just described to us from a financial perspective only is

so normal. Mhm.

>> You you know you have a personal loan to the parents for I'm not sure why you got wedding rings. You didn't have the money so you guys took out a loan. You have some credit card debt. You have a car lease. Like this is you guys are y'all are the normal Americans out there. But the problem is Brett normal is broke.

Normal is 78% of Americans today are living paycheck to paycheck. Meaning if you miss a paycheck, you don't have enough to cover your bills. So, if you

guys decide that you want to continue to live normally, then what you guys have

have so far decided is that and and normal would be to go get just keep the $19,000 car because you like it. That is

normal. And you will have normal results because of it. >> But what we encourage people is to flip

all of that on their head >> and actually say, "What is the weirdest thing we can do?" Because if I get the results of normal, which is paycheck to paycheck living and not being able to build wealth and not be able to invest or save for the future or have any amount of money in savings, like I don't want to be normal. That's not where I want to be. >> And if you guys look at each other tonight and say, "We don't want to be that. We want to be people that have no debt.

We have an emergency fund. We're actually funding some retirement for the future. We have a house that we can afford. It doesn't stress us out.

We have margin in our budget. Like this life that can be created, Brett, is possible. Totally possible. But you can't get there if you keep doing normal things.

So what Jade's saying is a onecar family for for a couple that doesn't have kids.

>> Yeah. Is that weird? Yeah.

>> But you know what? You don't have a car payment cuz that car payment on that $19,000 car, it's going to be $600 that you guys don't have. Like, so you have to make different decisions if you want different results, Brett. And that's going to mean not taking out a loan for a car. For you guys, the re the reality is a one car family. It's saying goodbye to my emotions, saying goodbye to what I want and what I love and all the things

that got me to this place. And you put all that aside and you guys are like, we're adults. >> Yeah, >> we're adults and we're going to make adult-like decisions and we don't have the money. We can't afford this car. You can't afford this car, Brett. At $40,000, you can't afford half of your annual income going to the value of a car. Like that. It's not good. That's not wise. And And I would be working

like crazy to get your income up. And

And I would start working to get out of debt. I mean, you guys could get all this paid off. Your debt's not crazy. I mean, it's, you know, 2500, 4,000.

Like, you guys can get this cleaned up really fast if you just say, "We're going to be weird and we're going to work 60 hours a week cuz we don't have kids and we're going to take side hustles. We're going to drive Uber, right? I mean, like, here's Brent, here, let me put this in perspective. Here's a couple of interesting statistics about about cars because I want you to never go and have a car payment again.

Number one, Rachel just said 78% of the people living paycheck to paycheck, right? 85% of people who buy who get a car take out a loan or a lease to get it.

>> Almost everybody. >> Almost everybody, which is almost the same percentage of people living paycheck to paycheck. And for most people, that car payment is about $525 a month, which is very close to where you guys were at. And I mean, >> and if you invested that instead of g give it to a car company, what would that be, J?

>> Well, think about it. Most new car payments are over a term of 6 years.

gone down in value. And so, be weird, Brent. Be weird.

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We're always thankful for the listeners of the show, the people that view it on YouTube and watch us. Yes. Uh, but one of the best ways to help spread the word

is to share the show with the people

that you know, your friends, your family, even on your social media feeds, uh, you know, even subscribing, leaving reviews, all of that helps because with the algorithms of today, when you're able to get this show in front of people that may not know about it, just like our last caller, he just said, he just found us like two days ago on YouTube.

>> On Facebook. >> Yeah. Or on Facebook, is that what it was said? And uh yeah, and it's just it's great because we want to be able to help people. That's our goal for this show. And the more people we can help, the better we're doing at our jobs is the way we look at it. So, thank you again, you guys, for um subscribing and sharing. We really, really appreciate it. >> All right, up next we have Wanda in Los Angeles. Hey Wanda, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for taking my call. So, I do apologize if I'm high or verbal. is the excitement and the coffee couple together.

>> You're good, Wanda. You're great. How can we help?

>> So, I recently um got a divorce and I

owe my husband $50,000 and I'm not quite sure where to take the money from or borrow the money from for the first 50,000. I don't have any money in my savings. I owe 25,000 on my car, 12,000

to my 401k, and my other um expense is

my home. and um my mortgage is $2470 a

month. Um I looked into refinancing. I

really don't want to refinance my house because my um interest rate on my house

is 2 and a quarter. Yeah. And so I've been looking at other like heliloc personal loans personal loan is like 12%. The heliloc is 10%. And and I just

don't know the 50,000 is it because of the house like are you get supposed to give him the equity? Yes, I'm supposed to give him the equity out of the house.

Originally, I was supposed to give him 150,000, but he knows that he didn't put

any money into the house or anything like that. So, he settled and said, "I'll take 50,000." So, I'm just trying to figure out the best course to give him the 50,000. I did take on a second job. I've been working the second job now for about um three months. I haven't received any monies for it because I just haven't turned in the invoices.

Sure bec because um >> What's the time frame that you owe the 50k?

>> Um it's supposed to be cuz we went back to court. So it's 30 days after the um

court ruling and so the and I got the court ruling in the mail two weeks ago.

So I have Yeah. Yeah.

>> So in two basically in two to three weeks it's due.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, so let me kind of set the stage for this right quick. Is his name on the mortgage? Like is he on the deed or the title of the house?

>> It is. >> So typically typically what would happen if if you're divorced, you would do a refinance to get his name off of it and you would do a cash out refinance so that you could also pull the 50K out, give him his money, and now you're free and clear from that.

Um, but I see why you don't want to do that because of the interest rate. But I

now double check this because I'm not

sure, but I feel like you can when you refinance, you don't necessarily have to refinance the ent the entire it might >> entire mortgage. Yeah. >> But just the amount that you're

>> a portion of it. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And so a portion of it would be at the old interest rate and a portion of it would be at the new >> interest rate. Yeah. Have you talked to Have you talked to your lawyer Wanda about different options when it considering it's because of the house uh and his name is on it so you are going to have to get his name off the home.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> Right. So, what I was advised was um I

actually talked to an the accountant and so what I was advised to do was to do a quick deed to take his name off the title and if he agrees to stay on the loan, let his name stay on the loan because if I asked them to take his name off the loan, they may make me refinance anyways and then I lose the two and a quarter. And so, he said he was agreeable with his name being on the loan and he would just quick deed the home into my name. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, quick deed is a is definitely a great option when it comes to the situation. Yeah. I mean I mean and we never tell people to go and and take on debt, but there is a point that you're >> you're going to be owed this from a legal standpoint. And so you you I mean you you have to give that money and Wanda, you don't have it right now.

So it may just have to be a personal loan.

>> Okay? Even though the interest rate for the personal loans is just through the roof. >> Well, my I mean from the court of law,

you have to give this money. So, either Wanda, you you sell your home and you know what I mean, take the take the equity and pay him what he's due and you have to go find a new situation. Are you able to sustain the home that you're in?

>> Oh. Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Definitely. Yeah. The the house is now worth almost 700,000. When

we purchased the house, it was at 391.

And so, um, I'm I'm very >> How much do you owe on it? How much do you owe on it? >> 360. >> Okay. And >> And in California, I can't buy another house at 391. And not in the area that I live in anyways. >> Sure. Sure. What uh how much do you make? How much are you making?

>> I I make 188,000 a year.

>> Good for you, Wanda. And you're bringing how how much are you bringing home after taxes and insurance and everything per month? >> What's your take home pay?

Um, a little over 6,000.

>> Okay. Yeah. I mean, and and your mortgage payment's 2,000.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. So, you're in >> But and that's the reason why I got a second job, too, because whatever I do, I I want to chop it down with the second job. I just haven't received any of cuz I don't know which way to go with that yet. >> 100%. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I mean,

you're you're you're kind of stuck between, you know, a hard place. I don't want you to make a bad decision with your home. I think that would be unwise.

So, it's not this idea that like, you know, and it's one thing if you couldn't afford the payment >> on your income, but you're able to sustain that, which is wonderful. Great.

Um, but yeah, I would I would Yeah, do the Yeah, do the quick deed. I would again ask ask the accountant again, wrap back around and just ask what Jade was talking about and if there's a way to take a portion of it um where you're able to pay him out of it >> um and and the entire loan is not then,

you know, subject to the new interest rates because that would be that that would not be smart. >> And it's a blessing that he dropped from 150 to 50,000.

>> Correct. >> That's that's a big blessing.

>> Yeah. So Wanda, I mean I'm looking at this. So, let's just say you have you you have $50,000 in debt because of the divorce. You got a $25,000 car and you got a $12,000 401k debt. Uh 78. I mean,

that's Yeah, that's $87,000. You make $188,000. I want you to pay this off in 18 months, Wanda.

>> Yeah. That's why I got a second job.

>> Yeah. Which I'm so proud of you. Seriously, >> put all the money to it. >> Yeah.

And that's the thing is, you know, that um when you when you look at this high income, I'm like, man, this and I know you're in Southern California, so it doesn't go as far as it would. in Kansas City or something. I get it. Um, but man, you you have a lot on your side, Wanda.

But but from this point forward, I want you to draw that line in the sand >> and say, "No more. I'm not doing car payments.

We're not, you know, borrowing on our 401k. I'm living on what I make. I'm

going to be, you know, funding retirement. I'm be wise because I mean, how old are you, Wanda?

>> 55." >> 55. Yeah. >> 55 this year. >> Great. So, yeah, here in five to 10 years wanting to retire, you know, and and do something with your life and and you're you're going to be able to make a lot of progress really quickly, which which I'm I'm so excited for you.

>> So, congratulations. I'm so sorry that it that you know, with the divorce and everything that's kind of brought you to this point, that's always >> heartbreaking and grief in of itself.

That's um that's so hard.

>> But uh but you have a lot a lot of great

change ahead and a lot of things that Yeah. that you can do and make a big a big impact. Thank goodness that he was a good guy and was like, I know I didn't put any money into this house, >> right? It could have been 150. Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, that's I think that's the really difficult part about uh one of the many difficult parts about divorce is there's all these assets and it's like somebody gets to keep the house, but if you've been living in that house together, there's also a portion of it that goes to the other spouse. And so, how do they get their money? And so, that's that's one of the frustrating things.

And I know like during these times where interest rates it's like if I had it at you know 2.3% you don't want to refinance in order to with these rates and so I think that's very painful. >> Yes, for sure. Yep. And and again it's one of these things that to tackle the debt snowball method and even looking at the car I mean she's still she can pay off her car in 18 12 to 18 months which is kind of our um you know buffer.

So she can keep the car pay it off. Uh, it's not an outrageous, you know, different amount considering her income, but >> but she never needs to borrow from her 401k ever again.

>> Thanks for calling in. This is the Ramsay Show.

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buying or selling your home, it's a really big deal and you want an expert in your corner fighting for you to get the best deal and the best price. Honestly, it's probably your largest asset that you're ever going to buy or sell. So, you want this uh to be a really smooth process. And the Ramsy Trusted program is the only way to find a top agent that you can trust who will make sure that your home is a blessing and not a burden.

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Yes. And we want to celebrate you. So make sure to check that out, teachers.

All right. Let's go to Sarah in Philadelphia. Hi Sarah. Welcome to the show. >> Hi. Thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Okay, so um just really quick, so when I

turned 18, I got married to a man who's

about 14 years older than me. Um we

ended up getting a divorce. It was like a really controlling situation, but in the midst I did get pregnant right as soon as I got married.

>> So I have a baby now. Um she's going to be 5 months in May. And um so he doesn't

help financially. I did stay home after I had the baby, but I was leaning on him financially. And even when we were together, I didn't go to school. Um so

the good part is I don't have any debt or anything, but the bad part is like I don't have like a career path cuz I went

right into being like wife and mother and everything. Um >> and now I just like need help with like

>> Yeah. Do you um where is your your

parents your family situation through all of this from when you got married to now?

>> So um we got married and like my parents

were not super happy with the idea of me getting married. Not because they didn't want me getting married.

>> I can hear the circumstances. Yeah. And they probably picked up some things around town that they probably didn't like being a 34 year old, you know.

>> Yeah. >> Exactly. And then um so we ended up um

we ended up getting a divorce. So I'm staying at my parents now cuz he's sitting at our house.

>> Okay. Wow. >> Um >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. >> Yeah. And he It's okay. Actually, his family has been not his family, his brother and his brother's wife have been great throughout this. Um they let me stay in their house for 2 weeks without like charging me anything. They were super helpful when everything happened.

And they were like, "Listen, whatever you need, we're here for you." Like his brother will his brother's wife will call me every day. His brother was always like, "Hey, if you need any help with a baby, like we're here. We have >> That's great. You and you need that community right now." Like, if you have that to depend on, I would because the truth is if you are going to get out of this, it's going to require you working some hours, like working a full-time job probably to support your family.

And child care is going to be a huge piece of this. Um, so the question then becomes is what can you do for money, right? >> Yeah.

with my mom. Like my parents are thankfully well off. So like it's a place that I can stay and I don't have to worry about like well what about the bills? What about you know my parents are like >> okay with all that stuff. It's just like I just don't know where to go from here.

>> You know it's not like I'm in any danger right now. I just don't know. >> Yeah. The next steps for you, right, in life. Yeah. Turning because you'll be Yeah. turning 20 and all of it. Okay.

So, I >> um just because of what you've gone through, Sarah, >> from a divorce standpoint, having a child and I never want to minimize someone because of their age, but I am going to say because you're 19. I mean, like you're a kid, right? You're still a teenager technically 19, right? So, >> so, so that all of those factors, I do want to give you so much grace.

Like, you're still a teenager.

So, like just >> we have a lot of time here, Sarah. There is no I I do not feel like this is a rushed situation.

>> Um there's a lot a lot of grace here.

>> I'm like sliding down like a hill, you know? >> Oh, yes. Yeah. If you feel probably out of control, so I understand that. Yes.

But you're not sliding down in an un um

responsible way financially or something, right? You're you're fine. Okay. So, I just want you to >> No. Yeah. Like, I have I have no debt.

If I have a lot on credit cards, it's like $40. >> Like, I have no debt. I have money saved up. I don't know what to do.

>> Yeah. Is the divorce final? Is all of that done? Any legal bills or anything outstanding there? So, that's finished.

And does he have any responsibility like from from the divorce? Any um child support coming in? Any >> file still? >> I'm sorry. >> Oh, okay. She has to file check for child support. >> So, this is only Yeah, this has only been a month. I have to file still and >> file for divorce or child support.

>> Yeah. File for divorce.

>> So you're not Okay. So it's not even Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Good to know. >> And yeah. So there Yeah. That's why I'm like I feel like everything is >> Do you have a good lawyer? Do you do you have someone? >> I don't. >> Legal representation. Okay. So that would be step one. That's going to be step one >> is to find um someone in your area

>> who's who's who's a great divorce lawyer. I mean, you you're going to want somebody um there supporting you and

representing you. So, I would honestly, Sarah, I would make that step one >> is to find that person. Um because when you file all this is about to it's about to snowball >> into a lot of things and um and you're going to probably you or your parents will be paying Yeah. >> for some of this too.

So, so that would be my first goal. Find somebody and then figure out, okay, from a money standpoint, >> how is this working? >> How Yeah. How much are we going to have to have?

Because that's going to allow you to know >> he doesn't >> he hasn't helped with the baby since she was born >> and he might he might it'll probably take a court order for him too and even still he might not.

think >> yeah I'm just trying to figure out like what I do without like I'm trying not to depend on him at all cuz I know >> well don't depend on him. Don't depend on him right now. What what Rachel says right first step you get the divorce lawyer. Second step, you sit down with mom and dad and say, "Okay, we're we we're getting the divorce lawyer. How do we pay for this?" And find out what help you have and what help you don't have.

And in that same conversation, that's also a good time to figure out, okay, mom and dad, like this thing is happening. >> I don't live with him anymore and kind of figure out what create a plan and a vision for the future, right? It's how long can I stay here. What's that got to look like? And guys, everybody set really clear expectations of what that means. Do I do can I stay here for a

year? Can I stay here for it? And really talk this through because then when you know what the plan is, you'll feel better. And then you'll know what you can actually focus on. If you know that

you have 12 months and then at the 12 month point, your parents expect you to either start paying some sort of rent or I don't know what you'll decide, but then that will inform okay, what do I need do what do I need to do next?

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and I would say too, you know, because we always do talk about that expectation like what Jade's saying and in this case, Sarah, you know, maybe that expectation is dependent upon your next step >> and how long the divorce takes. Um it may even be of if you need to go back to school >> and while you're in school, you can stay with them, right?

So, it's kind of mapping out and again, this is not in a rush, Sarah, for you. I really don't feel like you have to do all of this tonight by any means, but this is kind of your next big steps is >> finding the lawyer, filing, starting that process, and then in the meantime, because it's good for you, Sarah, to be thinking through what does my future look like to Jade's point. So, what what is the next steps? What does it look like?

And just paint a broad stroke of like, okay, if I'm 23, what does it look like for me to self- sustain? That's right. >> To pay rents, all that. Do I need a college degree to do that?

Do I love, you know, um, accounting and I probably need to go get, you know, um, you know, a degree in that. >> I actually worked as like a secretary for several construction businesses. I like doing that. >> Okay.

So, admin, yeah, administration is probably really high up in your skill set. Yeah. So, finding those kind of things >> and then backing out from there and say, okay, you know, would I be able just to plug in with one or two businesses around to be able just to start working, you know, maybe in the next six months and that's great. Or do I need to go back to school?

Right? And then with your parents being that safety net for you right now, how much are they willing to be a safety net financially for you right now and from a time housing perspective like what Jada is saying. But Sarah, stay on the line. I'm going to get you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do >> Um because that'll help in that in that mindset and I think it could just be refreshing to you to have a level of grasp and control over your future.

But I am so sorry um about all of this and we just pray that it's a smooth process for you from here on out.

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz with Jade Warshaw and we're going to Gabrielle in Los Angeles, California. Hi, Gabrielle. Welcome to the show.

>> Hello, Jade. Hello, Rachel. Uh, it's Gabriel. Sorry. >> Oh, Gabriel. Gosh, I'm sorry. My bad.

Thank you, Gabriel, for the No, >> for the fix. How can we help?

>> All right. I was calling on behalf of my mom. Um, she's 72. She's a widow who

never remarried. U currently, she's retired. She's active in her church. and

she has a home that's almost paid off.

It doesn't include taxes and insurance, but lately she's been asking me for money. It started off small, but it's starting to escalate.

>> Um, how can I help her protect her being

independent, but also set up her finances wisely for the future without becoming dependent on me or my siblings?

>> Yeah, for sure. How old are you?

>> I'm 40. >> You're 40. Okay. And her house is almost paid off. Is she Is she still working?

>> She's not. >> Okay. So, she's retired. Is she Do you know Do you have any idea numbers of what's in her retirement?

>> Um, she's currently receiving Oh, as far

as her retirement savings, she does I believe she's exhausted them. So, she's currently the only income coming in is social security. >> Do you know what that is?

>> Um, I believe it was like 1,100,300 possibly. >> Oh, wow. And do you know >> on the bare minimum? Do you know what her mortgage is and what she has left on the mortgage in full?

>> So, the mortgage currently outstanding balance is around 100k.

>> Okay. >> And then the mortgage payment is around I'd say 1450.

>> Oh gosh. Okay. Well, yeah. So, >> how is she paying for everything >> right now? I have my oldest sister who's living with her and I believe they're splitting the cost of the mortgage.

>> Okay. So, they're half and half. Okay.

So it's that's 700 and then everything else I mean is she able to pay for is is

your sister splitting other bills do you know like electricity, water, all of that? >> Yeah. So from what I understand is that my other siblings she approaches each sibling individually and ask >> okay >> for help >> um whether it's covering a bill or a few dollars here and there. Yeah.

>> And it's for real needs. It's not for Yeah. Is she ablebodied to go to work?

Is she able to work?

>> She is able-bodied. Uh, however, she hasn't worked in some time.

>> Yeah, that's so hard. I mean, the reality is she either get if she has no

if she has no money and all she's getting is social security. It's not enough to your point >> when taxes are due for property tax. I mean, once she pays off the house, you know, she's going have to pay for property tax and all that. >> What's the home worth? I'm just curious.

If she were to sell it, if she were to sell it, what would it be worth?

Um, conservatively probably about 1.1

million. Um, it's a five bedroomedroom, three bath. Um, as far as

her renting out the rooms, that's also been thrown around, but >> I hate that for her. >> Require uh me involving myself. Yeah.

Uh, >> I'm just wondering about everything.

>> Is there like a Go ahead. I'm just wondering because my head is that she's 72. She's still fairly young and she's in good health. She could live till 92, right? So, in my mind, I as

>> in my mind, I look at $1 million that she stands to take away from this and I go, "Okay, we can throw a decent amount

and invest it and start that fund going and then maybe she can buy a condo for, you know, 250 or 300. I mean, you're in Los Angeles. I don't know what's there.

What's possible? Can she buy something that's very small just for her and then your sister goes and does her own thing?

Because I'm also thinking what happens if the sister moves out and gets married or moves on in life, right? So, there's a lot of variables here. I'd love for her to get some hands on that money, get some of it invested, and get some of it in a smaller, modest living space for

her.

>> Yeah, I think that's that's what I envision for her. >> I just don't know where to start. I think um if I do get the ball rolling,

I'm I'm seeing it through start to finish. Yeah. So, where would I start?

>> Well, I would start with is everybody in Los Angeles, like your whole family, or do you have family that lives in less expensive areas of the country?

>> Uh, no. We're all basically based out of the Los Angeles area. >> Okay. Have you looked at or would you know price ranges of again a very modest

one-bedroom condo that she could purchase? >> Onebedroom, one bath condo purchase outright >> possibly in the area that we're in >> like around Oh, outskirts.

>> Well, yeah, cuz she's got to be able to afford it. >> 400. >> 400. Okay. >> Okay. So, then she could invest 500,

>> you know. >> Yeah, >> I'm not mad at that. >> And get that ball rolling. And then again, if she's able to not pull from those investments and maybe for just three years work somewhere just to pay just the rent, you know, just mortgage.

I'm sorry, not mortgage. Hopefully, it's paid for. >> Yeah. taxes, >> taxes, you know, lights, water, food,

um, and and just not touch that money as long as possible and let it grow and then live off of that because it's either going to be that or or you guys

as a as grown kid adults all have to say, "Okay, mom's not going to be able to afford this long term. Are we going to be willing to to support her in it?" Um, >> so that would be have to be a conversation that you guys have. >> Will she sell? Do you I mean if if you imagine yourself bringing this up to her, what does that look like?

>> The last time that I brought up the conversation to her, it was emotional for her. For me, it's pretty straightforward. I mean, the way that we're talking right now is the way that I talk with her.

>> And um you know, she's open to it. Um

but again, uh she kind of pushes the the

uh the work on to me. So >> yeah. >> And so do my siblings and all. What do they kind of look to you, your sisters too, to say like what do you think?

>> Um, >> no. They they don't have an opinion as far as >> what she should do. Um, they feel that, you know, it's our home that we grew up in and that you should hold on to it and she's only got >> such and such ways to go.

>> Listen, there's no there's no getting around the fact that this is emotional.

Like I'm I'm telling people all the time that plays such a factor in how we

manage the money. But if we look at the numbers, the math is not emotional. She doesn't have any money. She doesn't have anything. And she's healthy. She has a lot of years ahead of her. So she's got to get to the point where the comfort the discomfort of staying the same is more uncomfortable than changing, right?

And that's going to you're start she's going to start to feel the cracks in that when you guys stop supplying the

money if that makes sense. The more that you and it's your choice but the more that you say okay we'll float it we'll float it. We'll float it. Just know that >> it'll float through the Yeah.

>> for the next 20 years. Yeah. So you guys have to kind of get on the same page of saying >> we can talk to her about this, but if she doesn't do it, we have to allow her to feel it because when she feels it is when she's going to realize, okay, I have a difficult choice to make. And just try to support her as much as you can.

And it is emotional.

It's your family home. There's nothing comfortable about that. But the solution often lies outside the comfort zone. So

>> So it sounds like my next steps might be like to part right. kind of initiating that conversation with my mom about selling the home possibly. And then as far as with my siblings, it's having that conversation. If we're going to do this, we need to stop enabling her um and giving her money essentially.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Yeah, that I mean that's what I would do. And even pull some options. You can even get in touch with one of our um um >> real estate pros. Yeah. just to look for the area like what's in the areas of um

where you guys are just different options condo-wise and be you know there could be one a mile down so she doesn't have to move major locations right maybe it's just the actual home itself but um run some numbers and kind of get some more facts around it but yeah this is this is difficult

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to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast. Up next we have Derek in San

Jose. Hi Derek, welcome to the show.

>> Hey Rachel, I'm a big fan and it's a real honor to speak with you. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. Thanks for calling in. How can we help?

>> So I recently got engaged. My fiance and

I are both 36 years old. Um we're looking to start a Brady Bunch. We've got five kids between 10 and 12. Between us >> Oh, wow. Between 10 Wait, between 10 and 12? Is that what you said?

>> Yeah. I have twin sons who are 11 and she has a 10-year-old, 11year-old, and 12-year-old. Oh my wow.

>> Gosh, that's going to be a house full.

That's fun. So great.

>> Yeah, it's been really fun. Yep. So, the reason I'm calling um is because we have a pretty large difference in assets and

I think based on your advice um it would

the advice would be that we should get a prenup. So, I have roughly $12 million

and she has roughly 50,000. Um and so we

started the process of looking into a prenup and it's been an emotional one.

Um, and I totally understand why. And I think especially like we went through a questionnaire talking together about it.

Um, but then when we got the first draft back from my lawyer, that's when she's really not been feeling good about it.

Um, and I understand the concern. So, I mean, she feels like I wouldn't be fully entering the marriage in the same way that she is because it feels like I'm holding assets uh like separately off to the side. Um, and I'm sensitive to that and especially in some of the context of her um, former relationship. And so I'm

just looking for maybe more clarity and

uh, like what you guys would recommend.

>> Oh man, this is a hard one. Um,

because it is I think it is a wise decision to do one. And I say that even more. I have a friend who's going through not a great

situation and she came in with a lot more and now he's just I mean it was it's just messy. It's messy, messy. And there's a level um again, you're not you're you're hoping and praying obviously that this is the one and that it's going to last a lifetime, but as you guys have experienced, you know, there there is a reality to all of this.

And whenever we any of us get married, right, I think there is like this like, okay, I'm choosing you for a reason and for a lifetime. But um but we also don't live under a rock and know that things change in life and situations come up and unfortunately some really hard things happen and does causes marriages

>> to to break up right to to enter into divorce and we don't want that. Um, so

what were the part I'm curious what were the parts of it that was making her

because you guys went through a questionnaire together and it didn't sound like the questionnaire brought up a lot of red flags, but when she was actually like reading it, does she feel like she she won't be taken care of if something happens or like what what's the what's that underlying?

>> That's a concern. Yeah. Yes. And I think especially like um you know her kids as well too and it's something that um I want to address and I think we could address like in a will or um like some

other document or method after um we get

married and and it's something that I want to do like I absolutely would want her and her kids to be taken care of too if something you know didn't happen to us. I think it also it it feels very condescending to her um that like the

but that either she and I don't see it

being a problem for her at all. Like my goal in this and I think that's what your advice is that in our case that I

know is rare. It would help protect our marriage and that's what I want to do.

Um, but I totally understand that she feels it's condescending like to her maybe her and her family and her friends that they might be a problem and that we would need this to like protect against them. >> Can I can I ask how how like stringent

this prenup is? Like how strict it is?

cuz when I've heard calls about this before, my my question is always, is

there a way that this can be more progressive that over maybe over time and over years some

of the restrictions fall off? Like does that make sense to where it's like the longer we're together >> question >> and the more that this feels right, some of this starts to fall off and now we start to become one >> and and after a while it's all gone and we are one. Is is there anything built in like that? >> So there's nothing currently built in like that.

So other than that, it's pretty basic. So everything we enter into the marriage with is separate property except she has a small amount of debt. And she's been awesome about eliminating debt, especially the situation she came from that I I don't want her to carry at all. Like I would we would just pay it off.

Um and then everything after the date of the marriage is shared. So income that I make or she made, we just share it. Um, our plan is that she would stop working, she'd be able to be home with all these kids.

>> Yeah. So, at least as it's currently structured, the growth in that would remain mine. I think we have talked about it's not in the document, but like if I were to stop working to also help with the kids, which would be an option, like that the income that we drew from that would be considered our income.

>> I think I would. Yeah, I'd be wondering about that if I were entering in that marriage, like how how can we protect what you've already created, but how can

I be a player and how that grows from here on out? Like how can I be a part of that? I think I might be wondering about that. That's tough, man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then and the only other additional part is we're planning to get a house and I was just going to buy the house. We title it in both of our names.

I just consider a community property.

Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, it sounds like you're you're being very gracious about this, Derek. I think it's such a hard line to be wise um in a situation and being I

mean, you don't sound like you're drawing these crazy hard lines and you know what I mean? And you're pushing like it's >> um your tone feels very humble and and

gracious, which I Yeah. I mean, I think she probably very much appreciates. Um

so, yeah.

I'm trying to think if I were in her position, which you never can fully do for somebody. You know, there's a part of me that I don't know.

I think I would understand. You're coming in with 12 million >> and I understand that's not mine right now, right? Like there's I don't know.

>> Yeah, this one's hard for me. I I see.

>> Are you Are you an anti- prenup?

>> No, I'm not. I would not go that far. I think it's just it's >> it's it is a very tough way to start out a marriage clearly cuz we're dividing yours versus mine >> and everything else in the marriage is our is we say we us our so it it is

tough and if you're a person let's you know I'll put myself in the shoes >> uh me I've always viewed oh when you

enter a marriage it's like this >> yes >> you don't know who you're going to fall in love with and that person happens to be loaded and now suddenly are like, "Oh, this picture I had of it being ours

is not possible." That's just tough. I'm not saying it's wrong. It's just tough.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think too, Derek, I think it's too I think it can feel like the 12 million's off in this corner and it's never we're never going to participate in it. But I think the it comes into its mine if something happens.

But up until that point, it's ours. Like we're sharing assets. That's a good point. That is a very good point.

Like we are living our lives together as one. But for some reason, if if something ever happened in a divorce, this part still goes back to me. Does that make sense? I wonder if framing it >> that's a good way to frame it because that actually >> with her cuz that because it it it can be hers, right?

Like you guys can share in this. It's the only time it's not hers is if you guys legally go through a divorce.

>> Yeah. Totally makes sense. And that is how we went to live going into the marriage. >> Yeah. And it sounds like that's Yeah.

And that sounds like your attitude because you're going to take some of our money and we're going to buy a house together with this money and use this money for our family. So, I think it's it's such a fine line, Derek. I mean, it's so hard, but I think um I would keep and bring in a third party if there's a great marriage counselor or therapist. Honestly, it's something to to think through and even get other opinions um because yeah, you want to be on the same page with this.

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And the average person is finding thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So get every dollar for free starting today. Just get it in the app store or Google Play. All right, let's go to Alex in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Alex, welcome to the show. >> Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. >> So I am I'm 28 and debtree. I'm looking

to buy a tiny house to put on my parents' property without a credit score now. Um, and a tiny house technically not qualifying for a mortgage. How do I go about getting a loan for it?

>> Well, let's talk about the loan process and then we'll talk about the tiny house on your parents property. So, with the loan process, if you have no credit score, you're just going to have to find a place that does manual underwriting for that. Now, we would recommend Church Hill Mortgage. Um, there are companies

that do that and you just have to check and make sure they'll do it in your area, but it's the same process. You're just going to have to show different trade lines. You're going to have to show your pay subs. You're going to have to show proof of income. Um, if you work for yourself, you're going to have to show your tax returns, that sort of thing. But for the most part, the process is the same.

>> But how But you're saying it doesn't qualify for a mortgage because it's a tiny house.

>> Correct. Yeah. So, if it's under 400 square feet, I'm looking at 250 square feet. It doesn't qualify for a mortgage.

What's the cost of it?

>> Uh, I'm looking at about 40 to 50,000.

>> Oh, well, save up and pay for it, Alex.

>> I'm sorry. >> Save up and pay for it. It's like a car.

>> Right now, I only have about 10,000.

>> Okay. Well, then just wait a little bit.

Yeah. So, just put be putting some money aside, 2 3,000 a month, and just work

your way up and in probably, you know, 12 18 months, then you can do it.

>> Can I ask the long-term strategy on this, Alex? >> Yeah. Um, so I have autism and I can't really live independently. I So it's pseudoindependent being on my parents' property. >> Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. What are you doing for work?

>> Um, I coordinate volunteers for hospice.

>> Cool. And >> are your parents involved at all, Alex, in this process? Would they be able to help you?

>> Not financially, no, but they've been a great support. >> Okay. Okay, great. How long did it take you to save up the 10,000?

Um, I just finished I got debtree in February and then saved up like 6,000

for my emergency to six month emergency fund and it's so I don't know last 6

months. >> Okay. Um, yeah, I'm with Rachel. Just keep saving for this. It seems like you've thought through the best way for you to live and I I like that you've

thought through that. I I don't think you need to go into debt for this. And for anybody who is listening to my zero score spiel, that's for >> the mortgage. No, but that's it. That are trying to do a full mortgage on zero credit score. But yeah, save up for it.

I like the 40 to 50,000. Just understand that you that this is yours. Like the

resale on this virtually doesn't exist because it's on your parents' property and this is money that you'll likely never get back. >> Um so understanding that is important, I'd say. >> Yep. Yeah. So running the Yeah. I mean,

so it will um Are you able to pick up extra work, Alex?

>> Yeah, I'm looking for a second part-time job. >> Okay, good for you. You sound incredible. I mean, the fact I mean, you're very ambitious.

You're very well spoken. You know what you want. You've been doing the baby steps. You became debtree.

You got your fully funded emergency fund. I mean, you're literally doing it all. The only thing that's going to suck is like the next probably three years of saving for this. You know what I mean?

You just look at it like um you know, and people want to save up for a car. they want to save up for a college education, right? And these numbers, these are big numbers. Um, I'm definitely not downplaying that.

It's just so it's going to just take you longer to do it.

guess technically, you know, I guess you could ram ver, you know, go through it to say, well, >> but a mortgage is the one type of debt and this is for a house, but >> figure out a way to do it. >> But the fact that it's but the fact that there is no resale, because the one reason we do say a mortgage, not only is because it is the most >> expensive thing that you're ever going to purchase as a home, but also homes go up in value over time. And this is more

like a car in a sense where it's going to go down in value. And so getting into debt, even a personal loan for this um financially would not be wise. So it really would be you putting money aside.

And I mean, I don't know about the market in tiny homes. Is there can you can't you can you buy or buy used ones?

Can you buy a used one? >> Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at them on like Facebook Marketplace. >> Okay. Okay. So maybe you could even Alex

um I don't know because for some people they may want it off their property.

There may be some urgency to get one off. So maybe you could even negotiate with them and say, "Hey, if I have cash, you know, what's the lowest?" You wouldn't be able to do that today because you don't have that amount. But when you're getting closer to that in, you know, 3 years or something, I mean, you may be able to negotiate.

>> Okay. >> For for a lower price. Yeah, absolutely, Alex. Yep. Thanks for the call. Um and I again, I think Yeah, I would I just wouldn't do I wouldn't go the debt route. >> I wouldn't either. And because you never know, especially if you're already buying it used. >> Yes. what type of resale would be.

>> Yeah. >> On maybe, you know, selling it in the future. Yeah.

>> All right, let's go to Elijah in Salt Lake City. Hi, Elijah. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, how's it going? Um, I just have a question. I am 22 years old. Um, I'm

currently going to college right now.

Um, I'm almost done with my bachelor's degree. I have only about a year left.

Um, I'm only about 14,000 in student

loan debt, so almost done. But yeah, that's my only debt. No credit card debt, nothing, no car loan, nothing like that. And I guess my question is, well,

I'm looking to go into law enforcement after um after I graduate. I guess my question is, is it worth it to stay for a master's degree if I get an extra like pay incentive for the rest of my career or if I should just once I get my bachelor's degree, take that pay incentive and just start working?

>> Well, what would it cost you to get your masters? How would you pay for it?

>> So, that one would be it would be loans.

Um, but it would be for a total about master's degree. I've I've been doing our research about 18,000 for the the college that I'd be going to. >> And what's the difference in job that you would get if you just went into the police department with a bachelor's versus a master's?

>> Yeah. So, if I went in with a bachelor's degree, I'd be getting a 3% pay incentive for the rest of my career. If I went in with a master's degree, I'd be getting 5% pay incentive. So I guess my question is it it would take a long time to repay that like get that money >> worth get that extra 2% every year but I

do really enjoy college. I do want to get married before I leave college and I you know enjoy my hobby. So I just don't know if it's if it's makes financial sense to get a master's degree. >> Not on debt >> not on debt but I'm wondering if there's a way that you can cash flow it. Are you are you working at all? And my next question is, do you have to do it right away or can you work on it later while you're in law enforcement and still get the 5% bump?

>> Yeah, that you you can still get the 5% bump. I've just heard from a lot of people that, you know, it's really hard once you're starting this full-time job to go back. >> Yeah. I mean, how much how much are you getting paid like your first year that you're working? >> So, yeah, first year if um with a bachelor's degree would be about uh 90k.

>> Okay. And then with a master's degree, if I came in first year, it would be about 95. >> Okay. So, that's my thing is that the percentage wise is not big, Elijah. I mean, it's we're talking maybe a $4,000 difference. And you could do that in two months with a side gig.

>> You know what I mean? Like, so there's a part of me and I know I have friends in law enforcement and they even move around. They get up to detective or they, you know, move around within it.

Yeah. >> Um, that can change your pay over time as well. So, um, >> yeah, I think if you had the money and you wanted to do it, I I don't think I I mean, I don't think I would stop you, but also since you don't have the money, it's kind of that's a no-go for me personally.

>> Okay. Yeah. So, you would just you would Okay. So, you wouldn't be okay with, you

know, taking out student loans for master's degree? >> No. No. >> Yeah. I'd get this paid off. And um man,

I wish we had a Ramsay dating app cuz I feel like we had a lot of calls of some ladies that are always single, Elijah, and they're always looking for a man and we could have pointed them your way.

>> I know. I know. No, I I I appreciate the

uh >> the the the proactiveness of love.

>> I do. I do >> with him because I do think that's great. >> I am for getting married young and you know, >> and what he said is true. Like when you're in college, there's people right there to choose from. Once you get out in the world, it's like I got to work. I got to go out >> after hours.

>> It's exhausting. You know, >> it's absolutely exhausting. >> You got to go to an an event, get dressed up, college. It's like you got your pick right there. >> Got them right there. Oh, Elijah. Yeah.

I hope that helps. So, yeah, if there's not the cash, but to Jade's point, if you're able to somehow cash flow or even if you get into a situation where they help pay for half of it, I don't know, um you know, your work, that would be incredible, too. So, uh I hope that helps. And yeah, good luck.

Our scripture of the day comes from Philippians 3:13 through4.

One thing I do, forgetting what is behind and straining towards what is ahead, I press toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Jesus Christ. Booker T.

Washington said, "You measure the size of the accomplishments by the obstacles you have to overcome to reach your goals." That's good.

>> That's really good. >> Love it. Love it. Love it. All right. Up next, we have Jacob in Grand Rapids. Hi,

Jacob. Welcome to the show.

>> How you doing? Thank you for having me.

>> Absolutely. So recently, recently in this year, I've had a change in my whole money, and it's really been having, you know, $3,000 in a checking account for emergency, putting everything else towards a high yield savings account or cash plus account to some banks, and then, you know, maxing out my Roth IRA as much as I can every year, as well as, you know, traditional brokerage investments. But it really got me thinking. It's like, can you live with these cash plus accounts or high yield savings accounts considering that they accept direct deposits and bill pay and you know you can deposit checks.

Can you only live with using a high yield savings account with a credit card? And if so, like what's the disadvantage with that without going through you know your traditional local bank or even your commercial bank like the bigger ones, right? >> Yeah.

how many um withdrawals you can have.

So, you can't use it like a full checking account. Sometimes they have a limit of five >> um is is what I see most of the time.

And um but yeah, you will get a debit card and a um checkbook with that. So you can you can you know take money out of it but you can't I mean if you think about you know the expenses I just think about my every dollar app and when I open it it's like 15 transactions you know and it's like an Amazon an Amazon grocery Netflix I mean so you're you're you have a lot of transactions coming out that will not >> it'll it'll exceed the limit of most high yield savings accounts.

>> I see. >> Yep. So there there really there really isn't isn't much as long as you know whatever company you go with making sure they don't have those limits and whatnot um for a high yield at least.

>> Well, they they do they will. Yeah. A high yield usually does have have a limit of how many withdrawals you can have >> per month. Yeah. So a traditional checking out. Now I will say Jacob, there are some and we're actually kind of in talks with one right now possibly for the Ramsey show. There are now banks that are offering a higher percentage

rate, maybe like a two to 3% for checking, just a normal checking, which is great versus I think our checking is like less than 1% or something like I don't think we basically get anything from it. So there may be some more on the market that are great. It's not it wouldn't be considered a high yield savings. It would be considered a checking account. Um but there are some banks that are offering usually online banks are offering more um of a higher

interest rate on just a traditional checking account. So that's something you could look into if you wanted to.

>> No, that is true. I've been seeing that with a lot of banks. Like I'm looking at one right like it's Vanguard and that's the one I was look at. It is labeled a cash plus account. So it might not be a high yield. I guess that's where my kind of question or to myself was a bit confusing. But the main the main motivation behind it is, you know, making my money work for me, right?

>> And um making sure that it's not sitting in, you know. >> Yeah, for sure. But I would say the account that the money you have in your checking or the way I look at it, Jacob, is that money is sitting there not to make me money. It's to keep my life afloat.

I mean that that and my investments are there to make money for me. Just like you're saying, my high yield savings, it's there for a little bit of that bridge mentality of like we have a lot, you know, we had a good amount of money in our high yield because we were building a pool. So we were writing some checks out of it throughout uh this past year.

But yet I know my high yield savings is not where I'm going to make a ton of money. That's that it's not why it's there. It's fine to have it sit there some savings because it will make more than a checking account. But I look at for me my investments from real from um

retirement. Winston I have a separate mutual fund and then we also have some real estate. So like I look at those as where my money makes money, not necessarily my high yield savings or my checking. So I wonder if from your mentality perspective, Jacob, to kind of like loosen that a little bit and maybe maybe put some more like emotional parameters around these accounts.

>> I think so. It's also about the habits you're forming. Like when when you tell me that I'm thinking you're building the

habit of I have a block of savings and I can pull from that block of savings for normal every day. Do you know what I'm saying? as opposed to when your checking account's in your checking account. I only use this for dayto-day, you know, day-to-day purchases and my savings over here, I only touch it if it's an emergency.

And this HYSA, I only you know what I'm saying?

personally, >> but um yeah, I I wouldn't do it. There are definitely worse things you could do. >> You know what I'm saying? For sure.

>> Yeah. Does that help?

>> Yeah, that's that's where No, it definitely does help. And you know, that's where I'm going eventually. I have money set aside. I mean, a little background for an investment property, a multif family unit, and it's just been sitting in, you know, I think like a 0.1%.

So, I was like, you know, I got to move this for, you know, and I would say property. >> Yeah. And I would say this, too, Jacob. if that um I love that real estate goal for you.

And if it's going to be longer than five years, you could even drop that in the S&P 500 through Vanguard if you wanted. And um if it's longer than 5 years, you could invest it. It's going to go up and down. It's not going to be as steady as just a high yield savings, but high yield savings, you're only going to get four to 5%.

Now, if it's less than 5 years, I wouldn't probably risk it putting in the market.

>> Yeah, that is that is very smart because it compounds and it's >> um relatively good performance.

>> Yeah, for sure. So again, >> that answer my question. Okay. Um >> perfect.

Well, thanks for the call, Jacob. You're a sharp guy. Sharp young guy. >> Sharp young man to be able to be thinking about about all of this, which is great.

So again, you guys, just to kind of like clear that up, you know, you want to have your checking, you want to have some sa a savings, and we love a high yield or a money market account, but in that you're going to have your emergency fund, some short-term savings that you're looking towards once you're debtree and have your fully funded emergency fund. Maybe your down payment you're saving up for could go in the high yield. >> And then beyond that, be investing. And retirement is your number one priority with investing.

15% of your income will go into that. And that's Roth IAS.

>> 401ks, 403bs. Now, I keep my I keep my

emergency like Sam and I keep our emergency fund in one high yield and then we keep another high yield for like

renovation like things like that. Is that what you do? I just like it over there. >> Yes. That's how I am. That's how I am.

I'm like don't count that like >> like I like to forget it's even.

>> I know. And I'm such the furry spirits even though I'm like talk about money every day for my job and I'm always like hey babe out of all their accounts like well how much is in this? And he like gives me the number. I'm like, "That's not including the emergency fund, is it?" He's like, "No, it's not including the emergency fund." Like, >> never include the emergency.

Like, I just can't even like emotionally yep go there. But, uh, but yeah, those are those are some great questions.

We saw them. They were crazy.

>> They were like 5.5 at one point.

>> It was wild, wild, wild, wild. So, that's always a thing to remember, too, in the economy when interest rates go up. It's bad when you're in debt because you're having to pay that interest, but when you're earning the interest, uh, yeah, it might be might be great. Um, all right, let's go to Tik Tok real quick.

We'll close out the show with a little Tik Tok. We got Brian and he said, "Because of your show, we're living a dream.

How can we eat steaks, ribs, seafood

without guilt?" I thought that without a grill. I was like, >> "Wait, wait." >> So, basically, how do you enjoy life on baby on baby step? I think they're on seven. And I think they're they're done. They are living the dream. >> So I'll give you my framework for like So basically they're feeling guilty about their spending. Is that what they're saying? >> But they have the money. >> So I love this because Sam and I sometimes feel the same way. Like whenever you've gone through a struggle and you've sacrificed to win, you do.

It's like oh like you're afraid you're going to mess it all up, right? And so here's why. Five pillars of personal finance. >> All right, Jade. Here we go. >> And if you check the boxes, then you're a a financially responsible adult.

>> Love it. So, number one, are you living on a budget? >> Okay, green check. Ding. Number two, are you person who is living out of debt?

Like you're out of debt, you don't have a debt. Ding. Check that box. If you're I carry the proper insuranceances. Do I have the proper insuranceances? Yes. Check that box. Am I a person who's saving for the future? Am I doing, you know, my 15% to retirement? Am I doing the 529? Am I investing in my, you know,

force savings account through my home?

Ding. And am I prioritizing giving? If

you're green checking all those boxes, permission to spend to use your >> enjoy some life. I love it. I love it.

Hope that helps, Brian. Enjoy the RV life. The retired life that is.

>> I love it. >> Oh, well, thanks to all the guys in the booth for helping out, Jade. Thanks for the great hour. And remember to take control of your money and create a life you love.

Heat.

Heat.

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## 265. You Can’t Win With Money While Your Life Is In Financial Chaos | December 11, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm

Dave Ramsey. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay [music] personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Alyssa is in Indianapolis. Merry Christmas, Alyssa. >> Merry Christmas. >> What's up?

>> I have a question. My husband has

basically ruined us financially, and I'm at a breaking point to where I need to know if we need to file bankruptcy, if I

should take over the bills. if I do, how to start because I never have done them or if I should just walk away because I'm just overwhelmed and I can't take all the phone calls and all the stuff that's going on. Like I'm to the point where either I'm going to leave him or file bankruptcy or I need help. I don't know.

>> Wow.

So, um do you know what is going on?

Like how much debt you have?

Um, I I would say probably close to 30

to 50,000 in debt. Um, I'm not certain

exactly how much. Like I said, he has always um done the bills, but the my breaking point was last year when he got my car repoed. I looked out the window.

I get my money goes in the bank account every week from our my paycheck and my car was being repoed and [snorts] um he panicked and had his mother cosign. The car was in my name, so he ruined my credit. And he had his mother cosign. Well, now his mother has cosigned on a vehicle for me. And >> that was a year ago.

>> Correct. >> Why did you not get involved and the two of you sit down where you knew what the flip was going on from that point forward? Why' you still stand back?

>> I I tried I tried to get involved for a little while. We had everything written down, what was going in or what was going out. I was telling him, "We need to pay this bill.

>> okay so it's more Alyssa that he he says

he's going to do something and he doesn't. Andre, >> do you know where you guys are? Like like when you're you say we're $30 to $50,000 in debt. Have you had him pull

his credit report pull your credit report to at least see is he lying on that end? Cuz I'm just wondering if he's not following through with that. >> I think he's Yeah, I don't think he's lying on that end. I'm assuming that's what it is because I know basically about what's coming out and what's due.

I just don't know when he pays it and if he pays it. I think he's gotten so behind that it everything's got a >> late fe and is it what's he say? Is he saying why why is he late?

>> Um he just says that the money's not

there like but what I don't understand is he gets he works 50 to 80 hours a

week and >> what I don't understand is why you're still sitting on the sidelines and haven't gotten involved.

I like I said, I got >> You're really good at standing back and throwing rocks at him and you have no idea when all you got to do is walk in there and sit down with him and the two of you get out of Yellowipad and figure this out.

>> I I've tried. I'm >> No, you haven't. You I had ball six days a week. Bull crap. Your household's falling apart. Kids can't go to ball if the household's falling apart. You sit down and get out a Yellad and the two of you work on it.

>> I agree. >> So why haven't you done that?

because I don't know where to start.

I've never done the bills, so I don't know. >> I want I want you to take them over. I want the two of you to sit down and figure out where it's going cuz it's pretty simple. You go both have an income coming in and in your mind it's not We don't think he's wasting it. It

sounds like there's not enough money coming in to pay the bills, >> doesn't it?

>> It does sound like that. >> Do you know, Alyssa? >> So, I don't know that your husband has ruined your finances. I think the two of you have ruined your finances.

>> Okay. >> No, I don't think you need to divorce him. Poor guy had he's trying to carry this whole thing by himself and he doesn't know what he's doing either.

>> You're both lost. And so, yeah, you guys have got >> Yeah. And there and there's obviously a level of broken trust. If your husband says he's going to do something and he doesn't though and doesn't and doesn't and doesn't say, "Hey, this this car payment can't be paid. We have no money.

I need help." right? If if he's just taking over and not bringing her in at all, which again, Alyssa, you you have to be the one doing it, too. You may have to be the one pushing the buttons.

You may have to be the one that actually is paying the car payment and is paying the bills for a season.

>> If I were if I were to just interview you guys separate from this whole situation, who would we say that the

detailoriented person is? Him or you?

>> I would say it would be me. Um, >> yeah. your your your underwear drawer is folded. His is >> I correct. He's so busy working. It's not that he's a bad person. I'm working on him like that.

>> Um he um >> he's working at the job 50 to 60 hours a week. >> Okay. So, what what does he make, hun?

>> Um he probably makes about 120,000 a

year. >> Okay. So, number one thing is we need we need to take probably out of the equation by by the before the sun goes

down. You need to know what your husband makes >> exactly. Okay. What do you make?

>> I make about 32,000 a year.

>> Okay. So, we have Let's pretend that that's correct. And we have $152,000

a year to work with, >> right? Correct. >> Okay. >> Now, then let's start spending that. The first thing we buy is food >> each month. The second thing we buy is lights and water. And those are all paid on time. There's no reason they can't be paid on time. How much is your house payment?

>> Um, it's I think around 1,500.

>> Okay. No thinking anymore. You need to know. >> Okay. Okay. >> Not around. By the end of the day, you're going to know it's $1,53246

freaking.

>> You need to know exactly cuz you can't blame anybody else anymore. The two of you together have both got to put your feet on this together, not throwing rocks at each other, and join hands.

join arms and fight the battle. The battle is not inside your house. The battle's outside your house. And the two of you need to fight the enemy together.

Okay. So, we're going to pay the house payment exactly. $1,53246.

And what is your car payment with pray the freaking mother-in-law?

>> Um, I have to estimate cuz I don't know. I think it's like 750. I don't know.

>> Good lord. Okay. And what is this car?

>> It's a minivan.

>> Okay. [snorts] How many kids have you got?

>> Um have four, but my daughter's deceased, so I have three living.

>> Okay. Three. All right. And And so we need to find out exactly what the car payment is. Exactly what the house payment is. We've got We got the money to pay the house payment, the car payment, and the $152,000 to work with,

give or take. We have the money to pay the bills that we've listed so far

and buy and buy groceries. You don't have the money to eat out. You don't have the money to do travel ball. You don't have the money to do any of that stuff yet.

Right now, all we're doing is just trying to keep the bills paid because the stress level is so high that everything's melting down and we've got to stop that. Okay. So, this is how you're going to do it. You're just going to simply walk through it, the two of you together.

we'll put you into every dollar and we'll put you with a Ramsey coach and get somebody to help you and and hold your hand and walk you through this. But I don't think this guy's done anything wrong uh any more than you have.

up and said, "Jesus, take the wheel." And then you're shocked that the car went in the ditch. And so you've got to grab the wheel, hold on to it, and both of you go, I just hired you for $152,000, and I'm going to pay you to straighten your mess up, and you're going to get your life back.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the bread winner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. Grieving families are suddenly left behind scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity. What you need is level term life insurance.

The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Xander and his team at Xander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options, and they've been around for over 95 years, so you know they'll be

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Give them a call at 8003564282.

Okay.

When you are in crisis with your money, here's what you do.

Take four steps back.

You're too close and you you can't see the forest for the trees. Meaning you got you have a tree branch stuck in your nose and you can't see past it. And then the drama builds

up in your head and you spin out. And

when you spin out, you are of no value for critical thinking. Because when you drop into lizard brain, fight or flight mode, which is where our last caller was, that means you've slipped everything into the front side of your brain and there's no critical thinking skills there. And cleaning up a financial mess,

ascertaining where the financial mess came from so that it doesn't come back is a critical thinking process. So it

requires that you take a deep breath, take a cold shower, two steps back, and

start going, "Okay, I'm going to pretend someone hired me to talk to these people, and these people happen to be me, >> and I'm going to start walking that through." Then the first thing you do is you make sure that the family has money for food. Not restaurants,

food. [snorts] Restaurants aren't food. Restaurants are entertainment.

Food.

And that the family has the lights and the water and the gas bill paid. The heat is on. 99.9%

of the situations you have the money to do those two things.

When you are warm and fed, your brain

works better.

You can calm down.

When you're warm and fed and you know that you are not going to be homeless because the next step is you pay the rent or the house payment on time or

early. Almost everyone has the money to

do those three things.

Then we start getting to transportation.

So when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was in the eighth grade, we took a class called civics.

And in civics, they taught you the difference between needs and wants.

And the basics of life are food, shelter, clothing, transportation, and utilities. You take care of those things. Food, shelter, clothing. You got enough clothing. Shut up. transportation and utilities.

So, the lights are on, the food is on the table, we have a car to go to work, we keep the income coming in. Now, the rest of it is a monopoly game that we might be losing, but you're it's not life or death. And

we all have this little drama queen in our head that spins out and turns us

into drama queens. And we turn everything into life or death. And it's not life or death, but we turn it into that. I do it, you do it.

>> Well, and when you watch your car being repoed outside, like that's not fun, right? I mean, like, you know, there's reasons >> when your mother-in-law is calling you.

There's all these things happening. But but still, okay, that's transportation.

>> Yeah. Right. >> But why was the car payment not pay when they make 15,000

a year? And you can't say for two years

this has been going on and I'm standing on the sidelines only griping about it.

No, you get your hands in the mess.

>> You reach up to your elbows in the mess and the two of you together. It's not I'm going to take over the bills. It's it's like he can't do this for whatever reason or won't do it by himself.

>> Yeah. >> And so we've got to work together.

>> Yes. And I'll just say what goes on in my head when I listen to her is I mean the compassion I go I you know you get on them which is great and my I'm like oh gosh is this everything okay? But but I tell myself if the reverse called which does happen and there's a spouse calling and saying I I've been trying to do this. I can't we don't have enough money here.

I I can't keep my head above water. You're like well where's your husband? Where's your wife? I don't know.

She won't she won't be engaged in it. We would yell at the spouse that's not on the phone. Do you know what I'm saying?

right? And so I think this whole idea of just putting it all on one person though

is unfair to that person. >> The way you It's not all on her and it's not all on him. >> Right. That's right. That's right. >> And so I mean, here's the thing. When the Ramsies went broke, I was 28 years old. Rachel was a brand new baby when we filed bankruptcy.

100% of it was my fault. I was doing

real estate deals that Sharon hadn't even seen. I wasn't hiding them from her. She's just like, "Whatever you want to do, honey." And I did. And I built a

house of cards and it fell. And you

know, from that day forward, she's been involved. And from that, at my request,

demand, command that she's involved so that we have two sets of eyes looking at everything because we're not I'm not going to do this by myself anymore. and we're not going to make huge mammoth decisions that affect our lives. And you

can't stand on the sideline then and say, "What would you do, you dummy?" You know, so no, I mean, it's a couple dummies working together here. So, we're going to figure this out, right?

>> So, uh and so you've got to work

together. You've got to come clean. You have to then you when you lay out your plan, you have to do it.

And you can't There's Let me tell you, >> no excuses. before your car gets repoed,

before you are about to leave your husband and file bankruptcy. You don't go to the ballpark.

They're not even on the same planet.

Okay? Like there's cancer. We have to take care of the cancer patient. We can't make the ballpark. Sorry. You know, >> our life is is imploding.

>> Yeah. This is this is you you you know, and you can't use that as a hide mechanism. Well, I he works all the time. Bull crap. Come home, put on a pot of coffee, and sit up till 2 in the morning. Get this stuff together. Figure out where you is. And and that that's

what you've got to do. And I'm not fussing at her. I'm just saying I am fussing at her a little bit, but the but not right now. I was earlier.

But the uh the thing is when you've got this stuff right in front of you, this is the way you handle it. You you go right down from food and you you take it apart. And as you click off these things, every time you okay, I don't have to worry about food. One level of peace comes in and the and the angst and the anxiety and the freakout starts to leave.

Okay, I don't have to worry about lights. Another level of peace comes in. I don't have to worry about being homeless. Another level of peace comes in.

No repo man in my driveway. Another level of peace comes in.

So what? Okay, you get down to where the

stuff that is really behind or is really, you know, if you do the right things first, by the time you get down to the other things, you you you know, it's almost laughable how much of you've

gotten rid of 95% of your stress >> and you're in agreement and you're executing. >> Yep. >> And paying the bills. >> Yep. >> And we're doing it together. So, no one

should be doing this by themselves when you're married.

Period. Especially in a crisis.

Especially in a crisis. >> And I would say, you know, a crisis like what they just what she just explained is we usually say, you know, if one person wants to go and actually like log into the account, pay the bill, that's great. A crisis like that, I'd say both of you need to be sitting down at the computer. >> You both sit in front of the computer, hit submit.

>> Yes. I mean, seriously. >> So that you know that it's done. Because when you know that it's done, it's not necessarily that I don't trust the other person.

It's that when I know that it's done, I can sleep. >> That's right. Yes. >> And I don't have to be in drama queen mode.

of payment and so that caused repercussions for a season there is a building of trust. Right. And then and then a year later if it's like we are good, we've done this and done this and done this and done this.

>> Now we develop the plan together and someone can execute it. >> That's right. Right. >> But only after after it's there's competency. >> Yes. Yes. Totally. So when we're when we're teaching leadership, we teach people you can delegate when there's competency and integrity.

>> So they're not lying about it and they actually know how to freaking do it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And so >> it reminds me though all of this a little bit when you were on Oprah back in the day and there was a couple and you were like, you know, there was um money that wasn't it was like a mishandling of money. >> He he didn't know that they had $80,000 in debt that she had run.

>> That's right. Right. and you said you need to apologize to her cuz you weren't present. [laughter] You know, all that you weren't involved, >> but it is it's a it's the it's the mentality switch that both spouses have a level of responsibility.

Now, if the other one doesn't keep their word and on and on on now we have a marital issue that we really have to face um which is true. Yeah.

have a say and both need to be sitting down and doing >> both have a responsibility to do it.

>> [music]

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[music]

[music]

If you feel like you're always starting from scratch with your money, well, trust me, you're not alone. It's not because you aren't disciplined, and it's not because you're inconsistent. And it's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. We were kind of just talking about that. And when the frustration or fear build up, you can say, "Well, I'll put it off or I I'll not deal with it." But you got to deal with it. That's not managing your money.

This is emotional survival mode. You're stuck because you're ignoring the emotions. Jade Waw in her new book, What

No One Tells You About Money. It comes out in January. It's in pre-sale right now. Does a great job

of putting together a clear guided process that helps you diagnose the emotion and then what to do with it and how to work through and actually become sane again about dealing with your money because she and Sam went through hell.

And so she's, you know, she's the person with the experience, not with an opinion, right? So practical, not academic. This is a great book.

Pre-order right now for $24.99. You get over $100 in free bonus items, the enhanced audio book, the early access to the ebook, the instant access to an exclusive video, your financial checkup with Jade, exclusive 3-week online book

club with live Q&A with Jade. This is a lot of Jade and Jade is helpful in this area. So, pre-order today at ramseyolutions.comstore

and you're going to love this book. I guarantee it. All right, Braden is in Phoenix. Hey, Braden, what's up?

Hey guys, how's it going? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> I was given a rental property that's been nothing but a headache and I'm just wondering if I should allow the bank to take it. >> I'm sorry. How do you How are you given a rental property that has a mortgage?

>> Um, I worked for a company that did flips and they kind of gave me it. I was

young and I didn't know what I was doing. Um, and so I just basically took over the debt. They covered the down payment and it's racked up some credit card debt as well.

Okay. Uh, so what is owed on the house?

>> 519,000.

>> But you did not get the mortgage.

>> The mortgage is in my name. It was uh the down payment was to me.

>> Oh. So if you give it back to them, they're going to foreclose on you and sue your butt. You understand that, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> That that would not be a good plan, sir.

What's the house worth?

>> I I had it listed at 540 and it wouldn't

sell. So, I would guess 500,000. I I

overpaid for it. >> Who do you Yeah. Shock. And um how old

are you?

>> I am 21. >> Oh god.

>> So, these flippers are these Tik Tok morons, aren't they?

>> Um yeah. He was like my mentor and and I called him one of my best friends at one point, but uh he was just a little older than I was. >> Yeah, friends like that. Who needs enemies? Okay. Oh, man. I'm sorry, sir.

Um >> Yeah. >> Who do you owe the money to? What kind of a mortgage is it? FHA, VA, conventional bank loan. What is it?

>> It's a It's a conventional mortgage.

>> Okay.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> Are you able to make the house payment, Braden? Are you able to stay current on it?

>> I am not. So, I'm actually like 60 days

delinquent right now. Um, I am self-employed. I made $25,000 last month

and so I put that into a credit card payments instead of uh paying the So, it's a rental property right now. So, I have renters in it. Um, with renters in it, I lose 1,500 a month.

>> Yeah. Okay. Um Okay. So, your only way

out because you owe more on it than it's worth net net is to do what's called a

short sale. Have you ever heard that phrase?

>> Yes, sir. I as I work in real estate, I I know a lot about I I've talked to a lot of people who have suggested that.

>> Okay. Do you actually know how to execute a short sale, sir?

>> Yes, I know someone who that's all they do. They're an agent here in town.

>> Okay. All right. Would they be willing to help you?

>> Yes, but they said not with tenants in place. And my tenants lease is until March. >> Mhm. [clears throat] Well, I think you call your tenants up and say, "Hey guys, the house is getting foreclosed on." So, >> you may want to find a new place. >> You may want to find a new place.

>> It's only three months. >> It was Yeah. The the biggest issue is it

was leased through my mom's Airbnb account and so I was afraid it was going to hit that and destroy her Airbnb business as well. >> Yeah, man. Y'all just stacked stupid on top of stupid, didn't you? Man, I tell you,

I'm sorry. I've done I've done worse.

That's what I'm just feel bad for you.

>> It's like every because every time I bring something up, there's another hook in it, right? So, um >> Yeah. So, uh, if I'm in your shoes, I

quit paying the payments and I run the renters off.

>> Okay. >> Okay. As best I can. I mean, leg I mean, just by telling them, "Hey guys, it's going to get foreclosed on. You may want to look for a place to live." And they'll probably up and leave. Well, and I'll let you out of the lease because I don't want you to get hurt if you want to go. If you want to go early, I'll understand.

[laughter] >> Yeah. >> All right. And then quit paying the payments and then start the short sale.

I um if your friend won't help you while the tenants are in place, uh go to ramseysolutions.com and get a Ramsey trusted agent that knows how to do short sales and they'll help you. >> Okay? The tenants don't have to be gone for you to uh begin to negotiate a short sale. It just makes it easier to show the house.

>> Well, and if you're in that world, Braden, you should have you should know a lot of people. You said a lot of people have suggested this.

>> Yeah. But fi Yeah, I mean finding someone should be relatively easy.

>> So, and basically the short sale is is you get an offer on the property that is net lower than the actual balance and you submit that to the mortgage company and they realize having done an appraisal that they're not going to get any more than that after they foreclose on you. So, they take that and you are looking for and you remember this phrase without recourse.

>> Yes, sir. because that means they don't come after >> another >> they don't come after you for the difference of that is >> okay yes and another thing on top of that is um my the old boss he paid his

best friend to cosign for me so he's he's kind of scared and going downhill with me so he's kind of pressured me into paying the payments previously but I I've just told him I'm done >> yeah well tell him talk to your old boss

>> who set this up you didn't talk him into

doing it the other guy did >> and he did it That's the stupid thing about cosigning. He >> Yeah. Sucks for him. >> So, let me ask you this. Okay. You cosign for a 21-year-old who's overpaying for a piece of property and then you're shocked that you get stung.

>> Okay. I'm just saying put together by a bunch of flippers. Yeah.

>> Yeah. This is a good way to get screwed.

>> And so, yeah. Yeah. I'm so sorry you're going through this. The great news is is that when you're the other side of it, you will have learned several lessons if you learn them. And you need to write them out. I'll tell you what some of them are. Never cosign. Never accept a cosign. Never buy a piece of property

with nothing down. Don't borrow up to your eyeballs and expect a piece of real estate to work. It doesn't work. It doesn't cash flow. There's no possible way this nothing down tick tock crap works. It's a >> Don't get in the Airbnb business either, Braden. Don't follow your mom's footsteps. >> Yeah. and quit quit looking for all the get-richqu stuff. Every one of these things is in the get-richqu stuff. But write down, okay, I don't need partners.

I don't need co-signers. And I don't need favors from friends who aren't really friends who help me buy something that I overpay for and over borrow on and trap me in. And so, you know, I one

of my lessons is I never cosign. That's one of the things I learned when I was just a little bit older than you and I went broke. And um one of the lessons I

learned is I don't have the only ship that won't sail a partnership. I'm not in partners with anybody. Period. One of the lessons I learned is I don't borrow money anymore.

Period. The borrower's slave to the lender. And boy, don't you feel that right now, man. Gosh, I'm so sorry, Braden.

But a short sale is your way out. Cleaning out the tenants is part of that program. Doesn't it's not necessarily start it, but I would start it.

to short sale without recourse." If they don't say without recourse, they're going to sue you for the difference as if they had foreclosed on you. >> And Braden, you're you're a go-getter.

You're doing stuff at 21, but this real estate the real estate world, there's so many traps, what we just laid out earlier in the call, what Dave was saying. So remember those, okay? there.

It's going to be really easy to get sucked into a deal that feels so great.

Remember these principles and it's going to be a more boring ride, but a safer ride for you. [music]

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Amanda is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Amanda.

How are you?

>> Fine. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I'm calling because my father passed away about a year ago and assigned me to be the executive of his estate. Um, but

like you, he had some rough times financially early on, but persevered and he ended up doing really well in his life. Um, and he also tried to be generous. My mother has never been super interested in finances and is now dealing with the very early stages of dementia. Um, before he passed, my dad mentioned that he had been helping to pay for his aunt's nursing home costs.

We don't know that side of the family very well, and I met Aunt De's uh descendants at the funeral. But each month, uh, $2,100 of her care is paid by

someone on her side and then, um,

26.60 is paid by my mother. Um, well,

each year the cost of the care goes up and we just received notice that it'll be going up by $500 this next year. And so I told my mom in passing that, um, and I was surprised to hear that she didn't want to absorb the extra $500. In fact, she doesn't want to absorb any of it. She wants to continue to pay 26.60 60 and have Aunt [clears throat] De's descendants pick up the rest.

I can see why that makes sense as far as fairness goes. But the thing is, my mom is set for life. She's able to absorb the entire annual cost of the nursing home and it wouldn't change one aspect of her life. >> What is what is the net worth now?

>> Um, it's over 5 million.

>> Okay. So, this is this is not a math

issue. This is an emotion issue.

>> Yeah, I definitely think it's an emotion issue. So, did your dad dictate this in the will or in the instructions other than verbally to you?

>> There's nothing in writing. It's only verbally. So, I just I >> How did you find out about it? You found out about it before he passed.

>> Yes. He didn't tell me anything about his finances until about two days before he died. And then he was just like talk talk. And I just took a bunch of notes.

>> Oh gosh. >> Okay. And and when he was talking and you took notes, he said to do what regarding the nursing home? He said, "I've been taking I've been helping with Aunt Dina's cost and um that's all he

says. I'll just continue to do that." She's very old.

>> Does her family and her family's paying 21,100 of it?

>> That's right. >> Would $500 be a burden to them, do you

feel like?

>> I I mean, I don't know, but I assume so.

They all they have blue collar jobs and um Yeah. And you're frustrated because

you're like, "Mom, you could spend a couple grand and it's all done." You know, the extra 500. Right. Right.

>> So, on the on the spirit of the thing, it's you're pretty sure it's what your dad would do, but And you're still in charge of it. The estate has not been closed out.

>> No. No. There's a lot.

>> Okay. How long? And he passed a year ago. >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're still managing what really is your mother's affairs on behalf of your dad's estate?

>> Yes. And I I probably will for the rest of her life because >> How old How old is she? >> Because she start >> She's only 75 that she has the beginnings of dementia. >> Yeah. But you that's different than you being the execut of your dad's estate.

You understand? That's now becoming her power of attorney.

>> Mhm. Which I also have.

>> Okay. Okay.

All right. So, the lines are blurred between when you drop off doing the estate and start managing her affairs.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> So, if you've crossed over into managing her affairs, you would have to do it at her behest. If you're still managing his affairs, you would do what he wanted.

So, what do you think it is?

>> Well, that's what I'm calling you.

>> I don't [laughter] know. I can't tell. I can't tell. You're saying the estate is the estate is still open. Why is it still open?

>> Um well, he had one main business and about 12 other small little businesses and um the main business is taken care of and I am slowly working through the 12 smaller ones, closing some of them and some of them are ongoing concerns.

>> Okay.

[sighs] >> Um >> Okay. I guess I guess it's just really a matter of relationship with your ailing mother is really what it comes down to because it's not a math thing and it's not a bad thing to do. So let let's say you play it out both ways. Let's say, okay, we're going to put the other $500 in. Mom, it's what dad would want and it

doesn't affect you and I feel like we need to do this, so I'm going to go ahead and do it. Then what's her reaction?

>> Oh, I think she'd be unhappy, but I think she would also forget about it.

>> Yeah. Okay. Um, and then the other way

is obviously you could play it out and say, "I'm not going to do it because mom doesn't want to do it." And you let the other people know and you know they struggle through the next few years while this lady lives, right?

>> Well, is there a way that you can help me kind of maybe talk her through generosity?

>> Yeah. I I I mean I I in this case, I would just I would put it on your dad. I would just say, "Mom, I really feel like dad told me to take care of this and it doesn't affect you. You're okay.

>> You won't even know. Mom, >> it's not it's not >> because I mean just because of the math.

>> We could pay 10 times this and you would still never know it.

>> So, it's not it's it's it's pretty much like buying a biscuit, Mom. I mean, you can afford a biscuit and we're going to we're going to give this lady a biscuit because that's what dad wanted to do.

>> And you're going to be much longer probably. I'm doing this I'm doing this for dad. Okay. And you would do it for dad. You if he was here, it's what would have happened, mom.

>> And you'd still been okay then. Okay.

And so I I don't know if you're going to get her to be generous on this. She's um

like you said, she's and and then she's going to forget it. So yeah. Um I I I

think you do it and you just tell her why you're doing it gently, kindly, and we're not going to have an argument about this. It's just a fact. I'm doing this because this is what dad would have done. If dad was here, he would have done it and you would have been okay. I'm here. I'm doing it for him because it's what he would have done. And you're going to be okay, Mom. I'm going to make sure you're okay, Mom. This is not going to affect you at all, Mom. I promise.

You've got plenty of money. You're going to be okay. And it's doing a good thing

for some for somebody. And somebody's going to be okay. And I I I think you just do it. I I'm I It took me a minute to get there. I'm trying to figure out >> what your what your moral obligation is, but it's really a relational thing more.

>> Yeah. And from the generosity point, it's hard to teach someone generosity when it's forced and they don't want to do it. You know, the spirit of generosity is finding something that they love, they're passionate about, and they get to plug into and it's fun for them, right? Like that's part of learning the gener. So, trying to force generosity, teaching generosity in this, I don't think is the is the way to go.

No either. >> Yeah. I'm gonna make you give your money away. That's not generosity. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You're right. That's a good point. Oh my goodness. >> It's a good question, Amanda, though. That's hard. And with the when when the lines are blurred, are you the executive of an estate or are you helping manage your mom's? >> Well, the estate's still open and she's still paying the bills from the estate.

So, really, [clears throat] mom doesn't get a vote. >> Yeah. >> Technically speaking, so um she is the

executive and she's in good shape to make that decision. You can ask your attorney to be sure. Neither one of us are attorneys, but I'm pretty sure that's what they're going to tell you.

And morally and ethically, that's where you stand for sure.

One more time, folks, we're coming up on uh the Christmas season, the New Year season. It's when people take stock of things. This is when you jump on xanderins insurance.com.

Make sure you have the right amount of term insurance in place. This is when you go to mamabarillegalformms.com

and get your will in place. And this is when you write out stuff like this. I have a very detailed estate plan. And about this time last year, your mother said, "But what would I do with all that collection of so- and so?" Cuz it's just it's just a collection of so- and so. >> Well, your skis. Well, like my guns.

Okay. What are you going to do? Well, I don't need all them guns. And what am I going to do with all them guns? >> All your skis. Yeah. >> All your water skis, too. >> Yeah. Well, there's important things.

Important things. So, she's like, I just I'll just give them away. And I'm like, you can do whatever you want. She said, well, I'd like some instructions from you.

And that's fair. So I wrote out here's what you do with this collection >> and here's how you distribute it and here's who you call to get to get rid of it >> and so on and you know make sure the kids the kids get some of this and the grandkids get some of that and then the and the rest of it you know you can just [snorts] get rid of and that's fine. >> Yeah.

That's what I was going to say. A gift to give your grown kids is to sit down and do this. Yes. And not on your deathbed literally. You know, just starting to talk. I mean, that it >> it causes all this just to be the grieving process, all of it, so much smoother. >> Good reminder. This is the Ramsay Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, and my daughter is my co-host. Kelly's in Salt Lake City.

Hi, Kelly. How are you?

>> I'm good. I'm nervous actually if I'm being honest. >> That's [laughter] okay. How can we help?

>> So, um just a little bit of background.

We're debtree. We have money and investments and we have money where we can contribute um and and give to

people. And last summer we came across

or this past summer we came across a international student who needed some help. She had lost her support. Um and

so we have started helping her and our goal for her is to help her get a degree so that you know generations can change with that. That's our dream there. Um

but on several instances she's been um

irresponsible, ungrateful

and um at times kind of fudging the truth. So my question is what are fair

expectations to put on an international student? I guess we have three. How many chances do we give her? And when does our help start being enabling instead of empowering and we're just basically putting our money down the drain because she doesn't have the skills to get a degree and to function.

>> Yeah. >> Is she here in the States, Kelly, or is she >> She is here. Okay. Okay.

>> And what do you mean by fudging the truth? Like what is she >> lying? >> Well, she's lying. about what what she's doing with the money or like other things in life or >> um No. So like um for example, one of

the examples is she said she had insurance and we got her into a junior college and when she got down there they said her insurance wasn't great and that

the school had better insurance. So they just put that on our tab without talking to us. Um, well, she didn't come and say, "Guess what? My insurance isn't good enough. You're going to be paying $700 for that." Um, that's one of the

examples. Another example is that we were paying for her to take the TOEFL, the English proficiency test, and she

didn't pass the first three times. It's

a $300 test. And so, for the fourth time, I said, "Listen, why don't we get you an online class? Do you have time for that? Can you do this?" She said, "Yes, I will do it. I promise.

And um when we got on to cancel the

membership, she hadn't done one question. Um and and on top of that,

when we went to the take her to the test the fourth time, she didn't even bring her passport. So that was money down the drain. Um >> and and so it feels like she's not studying. She's not appreciating.

>> She's not taking it seriously. Yeah.

>> Yeah. The effort. We're putting in more effort than she is. >> You're wanting this more for her than she wants for herself is what it sounds like.

>> Yes. Yeah, >> it does. And and we feel stuck now because we feel like if we take back um we've added some extra things we want her to do so that she has more skin in the game, but if we decide this isn't working for us, it feels like now we're the bad guys and she has to go back to her home. So, we feel kind of stuck here, but we don't want to waste our money either.

Well, I don't do um I I'll choose

um disappointment before I'll choose violating principles.

>> Mhm. >> And you're you would you would not tolerate this out of any other situation. The only reason you're still in this game is you're guilted into it.

>> Mhm.

and guilt. Choosing guilt over resentment is what Dr. John Deloney always says, too. Yeah. You're resenting her. You're starting to resent her. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Oh, for sure.

>> Yeah. I'm just uh I'm going to uh pick a

number and I'm going to let her know that at the end of that number that our

support will end. And that gives her a little bit of an off-ramp instead of just a sudden end to it today. Uh, in

other words, some severance pay, if you will. So, um, how much have you put into this so far?

>> We've put in about 12,000.

>> Okay. Over what period of time?

>> Six months. >> Okay. And so, if you put in if you put

in >> 3,000 more, that would give her a few months to get some We're going to budget $3,000 more. And after that, our our um

support on this is ending.

We'll be cheering for you though.

>> Yeah, exactly. So, we we kept giving her

excuses basically. Um, you know, she's fragile, she's stressed, she's been through a lot type thing. And just a couple days ago, we sent her a written note. We expect these things. Um,

to give her just one more chance because we want to feel like we've done all we can. >> Um, she's got to start school again next January. So, we would with that we'd have to pay for housing. um tuition,

books, all of those things. Um

and so we have this list and I'm

inclined to say you need to do these things, but if she doesn't do one perfectly, do we say that's it? This is your last semester.

Um >> I think this is her last semester.

>> Okay. You wouldn't keep [clears throat] keep paying in for that. I >> I haven't changes. There's no joy in this at all. No, >> it's all regret. It's I wished I had if I had it to do over, I wouldn't do it.

Hello.

>> Yeah. >> If I knew then what I know now. Right.

>> And so we don't we don't continue. We don't continue. >> Um >> how much is Okay. Is it a community college? You said, Kelly, she's in.

>> It's a junior college. Yeah. Okay. So, what is this semester in housing going to cost you?

>> It will cost um $1,100. Okay.

>> Total. >> Yeah. It's not too bad. Yeah. Over the whole semester. >> Yeah. Like I said, I would I would budget like $3,000. So, we're going to cover this and we're going to give you this amount of money and um our support is ending at that point. Sorry.

>> Okay.

No more chances. >> It's not a It's not a chances. It's not a It's not a This didn't work. We tried to do this and it was not something that we're It's not something that we're participating in anymore.

>> I don't It's not a And there's not a big corrective We're not going to make a big speech, okay, about all these things and because it is it just is what it is, >> okay? >> And so, um, you've you've tried to do

corrective things and they didn't work.

>> Yeah. >> You mentioned several of them. Okay. So, I'll give you an example. All right. When someone that is working here at Ramsey, we've got 1100 folks is not

working out, they're they're they're not competent or they've got a behavior issue or something, we sit down with them and say, "Look, this is a problem.

We got to fix this." And I'll walk with you while we fix it. And but if we don't fix it, it's going to be a thing. And then we sit down again and then we sit down again. And then we sit down again and then we say, "Okay, you have 30 days." And during that time, if you, you

know, there's a zero tolerance, you're going to be not doing this behavior anymore. Okay? And if they do it again, then we don't even wait the end of the 30 days. As soon as they do that, the next morning we sit down and that conversation when they leave is one minute.

>> We we've already had all the conversations. >> Mhm. That conversation is simply the decision has been made that today's your last day at Ramsey.

>> Okay, >> that's about it.

>> And then we, you know, wrap up all the key fobs and the computers and the cell phones, that stuff, right? But I mean, it's administrative at that point. But we're not going to, we're not doing a corrective, you know, if you had just done this. No, we're not doing all that.

It's just your last day. It's just today

your last day. That simple. Because if you had done all this, that was in the 90 days previous. You've already passed all that. You're you're done.

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Not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Tucker in Wisconsin. My wife and I just started babyep three. Our 10-year-old is in dance lessons and so far we have been able to cover the cost. That bill will soon include travel expenses for competitions. My wife wants us to use

what we have in the emergency fund to cover the extra expenses, but I'd prefer to save as much as possible to keep cash flowing the costs while making minimum payments on our debt. Our combined income is $150,000. We still have a credit card, but we'll cut it up when baby step three is completed. Uh, who is correct on how to pay the expenses?

Okay. Well, Tucker, you're not in baby step three if you're still paying minimum payments on your debt. So, you still have debt. So, you're not on baby step three. Um, I mean, and who's technically correct? I mean, you would be. It's not an emergency. This I mean, you guys know that if you're doing a competitive sport that when beginning of seasons start and when things are due, you you know when that's coming. You may not know the exact price tag for it, but you know,

you know, you know ahead of time. So, it's well, you don't know what the cost.

I mean, there there may you may not have the exact specific number, but you should know the range and what's what's happening um with schedules. At least that's how it is with our three kids. I know when you know, we just signed up for soccer this week for the spring and I always know in December it's this.

It's, you know, but they, you know, kick up the fees a little bit each year, whatever it may look like. So, but but it's not, you know, it's coming. So, that's not it's not an emergency. and

making sure that you guys have the money for it, too, cuz you guys are still on baby step two. You're still trying to pay off this debt. >> No, you're you're not on a baby step while you still have a credit card. You need to cut it up right now. And then you're in baby step two until you get your debts paid off. You shouldn't have anything in the emergency fund except $1,000. And broke people don't travel

with 10year-old dance competitions. And

you're broke people.

It's sad.

It's heartbreaking. >> What is sad that the 10-year-old's not >> No one will remember this [laughter] in 10 months. Especially the 10 month or the 10-year-old only the angry wife who's living her life through a 10-year-old dance competition. So, no.

No. This is just >> you just don't do this. You just don't.

I mean, it's like your family is in jeopardy. You're in debt and you have no money. and we're prioritizing a 10year-old dance competition over that.

That's so screwed up it's not even addressable. Okay. No, >> there could be a whole hour on youth

sports, kids, travel. I mean, it is though. It's it is the emotional prior prioritization of it all.

>> Even if you've got the money, even if you got the money, it's a different thing. But but uh I mean, we had the money. Daniel's playing ice hockey and we figured out pretty quick he's not going to be in the NHL. And so, >> well, I'll be tacky and say, "We have the money, but we choose to do wreck sports and not travel." And that's our [laughter] That's exactly what I said.

>> So, you're going to do it here and and then we're going to go home and have a family and do other stuff. So, and I'm not paying 25,000 bucks for you to so you can have a vacation with your 10-year-old buddies. No, I'm sorry. No, not doing it. So, >> which is crazy that again it's that's such a these days such a controversial take. >> Yeah. Well, >> do you know what I mean? No, no, no. Well, I mean I I mean we're >> so easy to stir up a controversy today.

>> It's No, I know. But I'm just saying the world today. Papa Dave >> common sense is so rare having it as I'm

serious though in the in this year literally when you talk to parents Deloney talks about this too and and it's not a value system. I'm not saying I I won't say but it is this and and a

lot of it is fearbased. if they're if they're not doing it in elementary school, they're not going to make a middle school team. If they don't make the middle school team, they're not going to make the high school team. And then they're going to do drugs and they're going to die. Like that that's the feeling people have.

>> That's the I'm telling you, the amount of drug the amount of feeling like if they don't get if they don't start now, they're not they're not going to make it. They're not going to do anything. And it's not even worried about college or professional. It really is.

People are so concerned about high school when the kids are in third grade and so they're starting to >> if you want to pay for some of this stuff, it's fine. But you need to be not broke when you're paying for. You don't need to go on vacation either when you're broke. Don't don't you know don't write in here and say, you know, my wife wants to use the emergency fund to go on a cruise.

No, you're broke people.

people don't go on cruises. That's dumb.

Work your butt off. Build up some cash where you're not broke and then go on a cruise. Hello. Then you can actually enjoy the cruise. But this fake it stuff and I'm just going to walk around act like this isn't going on. I mean, you have debt and you have no money. You're broke, people.

So, act like you're broke when you're broke. And, you know, live like no one else and pay a price and then later you can do whatever you want to do. And and if then you want to do uh 10-year-old

dance competitions, travel,

then we can argue about whether that's even wise, but that's a different discussion. Right now, it's not even on the table to have the discussion. So now, and so you're actually both wrong,

Tucker. You're not in baby step three.

You're not in a baby step. You're still farting around with your credit card, acting like you're going to be okay. And so, you know, you're just wandering around over here. And then she's over here at dance competition. So, both of you, you're not ready to get out of, you're not really doing this stuff yet.

You're going to have to get serious about it. Like, your freaking life depends on it. Like, whether this little girl goes to college, that matters.

And the number of girls that go to college on a dance scholarship is precisely close to almost zero. Okay?

There's a handful. It's like the number of kids that actually play D1 sports and have a scholarship. Almost zero as a percentage of those that graduate from high school that played sports. So, I mean, and then try leaving college and go to the NA NFL. Oh, yeah. There's like a 0.1% chance of that. So, let's just

keep let's just track this whole thing all the way forward. The chances of you ending up there is really close to zero.

So, what she'll have is a little trophy and a memory of a Three Dog Night song

when she's 30. That's what she's really going to have from the dance competition. Nothing else. >> A three dog night song. >> I just made that up.

You got to have [laughter] an old You got to have an old 70s tune in your dance competition, right?

>> Don't you Isn't that like a requirement?

>> Oh man. >> I think dance competitions should have to have an old 70s. >> Dave is just showing his age. >> I just think I think that's possible.

Maybe Eagles. I don't know. Whatever you want to do. Heart. I don't care. I mean, but this is what it is. It's not >> Yes. Yes. >> You did you did cheerleading and competition cheerleading. >> No, I did not. I did not. >> No, you went to a class. You were in a little camp thing one time. >> Yes. I did pay for that. did a weekly a weekly. Yes. At the local. That's different than competitive competitive.

Yes. >> But we had no illusion that you were going to end up >> making $10,000 being a Titans cheerleader. [laughter] >> What I'm saying though is >> what do they make? They make about 10 grand, don't they?

>> Let me say this. The parents today though, I think is less about them becoming professional athletes and it's more about this their childhood experiences and them being involved in something and being the best at it so that they can do it in middle school and high school. Like I you know what I mean? Like I feel like it's a lot about >> really.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I mean I'm sure there's some it's probably the dudes and their sons that are like he's going to play professional ball. I don't know.

>> I guess >> but at least for like most of the people I know they still do competitive and travel. A lot of our friends do and they know their kid isn't going to make it but they do it cuz kind of everyone does it. Like if you want to play at a competitive level they all do these like crazy leagues. I don't know.

>> Whatever everyone does is >> I know. I'm just saying though like like I feel like an outsider.

Like we're one of the only families that doesn't do I know I'm just so proud of you >> saying the reality. No. And it's not a pat on Rachel's back. This is we just don't want to >> travel for kids sports.

And right now we've >> it's it's a never say never. But for our for our 10year-old we are not. >> As for me and my house. >> As for me and my house.

But it's a real thing y'all. It's real. And it's not just our area. It's all over.

you don't need to go on vacation and you don't need to be spending huge amounts of money on children's sports or dance competitions when you're in debt and you're broke. Okay, guys, that's just not smart.

at the lake. No, you're broke. People

don't do this. This is how people just It's a form of denial. And denial is not just a river in Egypt.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Heat. Hey, Heat.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

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[music]

Are you sick and tired of working so hard but having nothing to show for it?

Well, that's normal. Normal's broke. You don't want to be normal. Let's be weird. Whatever everybody else is doing, don't do it. You don't have to live that way.

Our Every Dollar budgeting app helps you find extra money every month and build you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands and hidden margin. You'll feel like you got a raise. Hey, don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Start Every Dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Bri is

with us in Virginia. Hi Bri, how are you? >> I'm so good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, this is so cool. Um, so my question

is my husband lost his job last week and

I think we are finally at the point of being sick and tired of feeling sick and tired of living paycheck to paycheck.

But I feel like I have a hard time getting my husband to have that same gazelle intensity because of how many sacrifices he feels our kids will have to make >> um with the debt paying off process. So how do I get him and I to have that same intensity?

what kind of sacrifices does he see it for the kids?

>> So, I think it's a little more

um to to provide just a little context.

Um he was a teen dad to two kids. We had two kids in high school. Um the mom's not in the picture and they kind of had a little bit of a tumultuous childhood growing up until he got full custody.

Then I came into the picture and I'm um their mom now. And so I think he holds on to a lot of guilt about just their childhood. and then trying to plan out, you know, >> how long ago was all that? >> How long it's gonna take? Um, he got full custody in 2018.

>> Okay. So, seven years.

>> It's in in the rear of your marriage. >> And how old are they now?

>> High school. >> They're 16 and 17. So, by the time we

get it paid off, we feel like they're going to be out of the house. And

it's it's hard to like think about saying no to them now and then they're going to be gone. And we have a toddler who I feel like is going to reap the benefits of the decisions we're >> making now. And it just it's a lot of

guilt. >> Mhm. >> For both of us. >> I would be guil I would feel guilty if I was financially irresponsible and that was the last message I gave them before they left home.

>> Yeah.

>> We're going to pretend like none of this matters because you're 17 and it was rough when you were 10. And so we're going to spend like we're in Congress and put ourselves deeply in debt and screw up our finances further,

>> right? >> As our way of saying sorry, we it was tough when you were eight and that's the gift we're going to give you is model this very poorly for you.

>> Well, that's kind of silly.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean I mean Bri, I think there's

I don't know for for him. I'm like, I want him, your husband, to have a level of um seeing this that

yeah, there may be some sacrifices. You may not be able to do the trip, but also to remember that, you know, when your kids just because they are off in college, I know life looks different, but they also are still around. You know, you guys can still go and do things with them. And it's not like

parenting just stops at 18, right? I mean, it's like a relationship just ends. it continues on. And I know things

look different and all of that and things will change. They're not in the house, but honestly too, I think, you know, being present with them and them having a dad that's emotionally and spiritually connected to them and timewise is with them and you know what I mean? Like the relationship aspect is probably what's going to take them a lot further for their future. Their father facing his demons and changing his ways is way more important than him taking them to Disney. Right.

Right. Yeah.

>> It just is. I mean, so here here's the thing. My friend Andy Andy And Andrew said, and I used it a lot when our kids were at home, even that we're not trying to raise great kids.

>> We're trying to raise kids that become great adults.

So, plug that formula into this situation.

>> And the best gift I can give these two teenagers is a dad who's saying, "You

know what? I haven't done well with this money thing and I'm gonna start right now and for the last couple years you're here, you're going to see me doing this right. That's the good news. The bad news is it means we're not going to get to do some things that maybe we would have done when I was irresponsible.

>> So, can I can I ask how does that look like practically? Like we're not obviously planning any trips to Disney or anything like that. Um, but like with like Christmas and then we have like three birthdays right after >> we didn't cancel Christmas or birthdays.

We just didn't buy a new we didn't buy a new BMW for Christmas, >> right? My stepson has to go bowling. Do

we say like that's what I'm trying to wrap my head around. We're like, do we say >> what's your household income?

>> He just lost his job Friday. Um, but

>> he's has some promise. Like I think he has some good things coming hopefully this week. Um, but I mean it was like 130. So >> Okay. And what do you make?

>> I'm just I'm part-time. I make 20 bucks an hour. I only 25 uh hours a week.

>> Okay. So we have $130,000 household income, give or take when he lands the new position. >> How much debt do you guys have? >> How much debt are you carrying? Yeah.

>> 29,643.

>> Oh, Bri. Yeah, y'all can do this.

>> So lay out a budget and say there's only this much entertainment. There's only this much. and we're not going out to eat and we're not going on vacation, but we can do a little bit of this. We can do a little bit of that and we're going to as a family, we're going to tick off

$29,000.

You guys are going to watch it happen, too. >> Yeah. Do it in a year.

>> Yeah. >> That's That's what I hope. That's what I'm I'm really hoping. >> It's not 130 minus 30 is 100.

>> Want after taxes? after taxes, you'll be

living on 70 or whatever.

>> Oh, well, >> I know, but I'm just saying. >> I mean, do it.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But but you can't use the excuse of my children are going to suffer because your children are going to suffer more watching a father and mother who are irresponsible, >> right? They watch everything we do.

>> They're going to do what you do. >> More is caught than taught. They're watching you. >> Yeah.

Absolutely. So, yeah, that I'm more concerned about that than anything else. >> Yeah. So, I mean, you guys do what you want to do, but that that would be my motivation.

>> And again, the great and let me say this, too. I mean, and again, I think I'm just in the middle of it because we're kind of in the Christmas season with little kids at home, but and and even looking back on my childhood, the things that you remember, the memories that you have, the things that actually shape who you are as an adult of what we're saying, that bring you to the workplace, that bring you into a marriage, that bring you as a parent is not the birthday gifts, right?

doing a puzzle even right I mean it's like you >> I mean I was talking I was being interviewed this morning >> it's a big deal it really is >> I was being interviewed on a radio station this morning and the guy was asking me about this video that's going around about the what Christmas gift you get last year and the kid doesn't know yeah >> but what experience they remember every detail about the trip and I said well your your sister's 40 >> and she could not tell you a single gift she got at 8 n 10 11 12 years old but she can tell you at 8 10, 10, 11 years old.

midnight. We were in church lighting candles on Christmas Eve [clears throat] >> and the kids are asleep in my lap.

>> And she can give you that memory and paint it so clearly in HD

>> 30 years later. Mom spilling wax on a

lady's coat in front of us one year when I was probably dripped on a mink. I mean, you do. Those are the That's like It's things like that >> that you remember and that sh >> we don't know what we got for Christmas that year. >> No. >> So, it's not to say don't buy something for Christmas. >> No. No. But it's just out of control.

>> But it is the mindset and the perspective that I think has gotten so out of whack that if we don't do this or buy this for our kids, somehow we're harming them. And what I'm saying is an experience that has to cost nothing is the thing that's going to shape and mold you. And it's the Tuesday nights at home and having a family dinner. Like those are the things that create good healthy adults.

>> It's not the crap that you buy. It's really not. And is bowling fun? Yes, absolutely.

Go, you know, take them bowling. But again, even the bowling experience is not the thing that shapes who they are. It's having a dad >> who is present, who is talking to them, who knows them, is relational.

trying to raise kids that are great adults it changes the discussion >> who are resilient during hard times and maybe they have a hard year because they don't get to buy what they want but that's resilience >> I heard the word no what we can't say

that that's illegal. >> Y'all are doing great, Bri though. To your points, yes, you are [music] starting. If you guys do this, you're changing the trajectory and not of not only of those teenagers, but that toddler that's in your house, too. So, yeah, we are we're cheering you guys on for sure.

[music]

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David is in Indianapolis. Hi, David. How are you?

>> Good, Dave. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh, long story short, I just checked my

uh my statements from my financial advisor last month for been the first time in a couple month. Anyway, looking at them, it only looks like I've seen about 7% growth this year and uh

was wondering if I should fire him and look for someone else.

>> What does he have you invested in? Do you know? >> It's supposed to be aggressive growth

supposedly. As far as the individual funds, I'm not 100% sure on.

>> Yeah, >> I just figured this out. I just figured this out on Friday.

>> Have you contacted them

and asked any questions?

>> I haven't I did contact I did not ask about the retirement. I did contact them to figure out why. This is another issue. Uh my deposits I made into my money market account were not being actually used and they were just sitting there not gaining interest either. Oh gosh.

You had money in your money market account that he has access to that he's supposed to pull each month money from to invest and he's not done that.

>> Okay. There's some couple things wrong with the equation.

>> All right. Um you probably should fire him, but not for the reasons that you're saying. You're griping about the rate of return and you don't even know what the mutual fund is. It's your responsibility to know what that is. Your financial advisor's job is not to babysit you.

Their job is to teach you and you make your decisions. And then if you don't like the returns, it's the return. It's due to your choices.

But you don't even know what's going on. You just toss the money over the fence and hoped he handled it well. And that's a good way to lose everything.

So I guess my next question would be

is that something that you would

is that something you know so I I paid somewhat close attention to the market listen to you guys listen to other financial podcasts. What kind of open my eyes to was I seeing that the S&P 500 has grown 14 and a half% something like that this year. >> 17. Yeah >> 17. Um >> and you made seven. So something screwed up. Yeah I agree with you. screwed up.

But here here's my point, okay? I do not

have any mutual funds with my financial

advisor that I didn't choose.

Not because I'm Dave Ramsey, but because that's what we teach people to do. Your financial advisor's job is to be a teacher and say, "Here's some things you could do. Here's the historical data on this mutual fund, and it's one I might look at if I were you." And you go, "Yeah, I like that." and I'm going to make the choice to make the purchase based on having been informed and then if it doesn't perform, I made the choice, not him.

And it was just a miss. Okay? Because you pick some funds that didn't even if they're aggressive growth, they ought to be outperforming the S&P on uh sub substantially.

Um, unless there's some kind of I don't know what you picked, but I mean it you could be in all kinds of sector funds or something else. I don't know what you got into, but I I want you to know what

you're doing. And so, like, this is the way you hear these sports figures that lose everything like they make $10 million, they they then they're broke or something. It's cuz they turn it over to some guy and go, "My guy's handling it." And then they don't even look at it. And turns out in that case, the guy's a scam artist or whatever, or he's a doofus, one of the two. I I I I mean I think the guy just handed you some mutual funds.

Half looked at him. You half looked at him and y'all chose poorly is what it sounds like.

So what I want him to do is to take up a new position if you're going to keep him. Probably wouldn't. And and that to be the heart of a teacher. And what I want you to do is not look for a babysitter, but have the heart of a student.

>> And he should be presenting you with these ideas, too, right? I mean, you're not This is why you hire someone is to do it. and to to show you and to give

you options. Like that's what our adviser does. It's like here here's >> but then you know what it is.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know exactly what it is.

>> So I guess that's you know what's my

biggest question for him I guess would be what's the benefit of paying you when I can open an account on Vanguard Schwaffer whatever and just throw it in a S&P 500.

>> Yeah. You can go buy a Vanguard S&P and throw it all in there and you made 17%.

That That's called passive investing.

Okay. That's called passive investing. >> What I'm paying him to do. >> Yeah. Well, no. What you're paying him to do is not to is to show you mutual

funds that are outperforming the S&P

and then and then you decide if you think they're going to continue to do that. I buy mutual funds through my investment advisor. There's 8,000 mutual funds. I I mean, I grew up in this stuff and I'm not going to comb through all that crap.

That' drive me nuts. Okay, I'm not that big a nerd. So, I call him up.

fund, and a fourth in growth in income.

We put a fourth in each in my in my retirement. And I want all three of those to over a 10-year period of time or longer to have an outperformed the S&P. And they're hard to find, but you can find them. They're not if they've got the software to pull that up and they pull up three or four. We look at them together. We go, "Okay, do we which ones of these do we think?" We talk about it together and then we make the choice together. I'm not paying him to

be a stock picker.

>> Okay. >> I'm paying him to man help me manage my

money. >> Yeah. And also a great financial advisor is looking at more than just your 401k and your investments. They're looking over your entire financial portfolio.

They're looking at your house taxes, the give I mean like they're able to look at everything and I think for that's where I see the benefit is having everything in one place now. Yeah. Is the Vanguard option there? Absolutely.

But I would even bring that to a financial advisor say I have this over here with me. Put that in my portfolio so I can look at the whole picture. Right. So, I don't know.

That's ours has helped us, you know, do things that I'm like, "Oh, well, that's creative.

it's great, >> but they don't they didn't call you up and tell you they did it.

>> No, >> they call you up and say, "Here's an idea. You all understand the idea, and then do we implement the idea?" >> Yes. There is a >> and whether it's a mutual fund purchase or whether it's a a tax move or whatever it is. >> But David, you look for people to manage your money. You manage your money with the help of an adviser. Yes, you can outperform the market if you do that.

>> Okay. Can I tell you though, there's a lot of that of what David just said moving right now in people aren't wanting financial advisors. They're just wanting to go and invest themselves. Opening a Vanguard.

That's what a lot of people are feeling. >> Well, the S&P 500, the bogal heads have been around forever. Okay. That's not That's not new.

>> No, I know it's not new, but I'm saying more and more people are not the traditional, hey, I'm going to go and I need a financial adviser to get me in the space is >> you don't need one to get you in the space. You need one to maximize the space. >> That's it. Well, that's what I'm saying though is that I it's more I'm I'm hearing more and more people >> people that have a financial advisor have a higher likelihood of staying in when the news on the when the when Trump burps and the market goes down, they stay in.

And the people that stay in are the ones that make money and they have a higher probability of picking better mutual funds because they're getting actual they're learning.

smart vester pro on ramsolutions.com

has to have the heart of a teacher or we won't put him in Ramsey trusted. We won't put him in there >> or her in there. Okay. And so and you

know and most of them make a percentage of the um of the amount under management

is what they get. Usually 1% or so.

That's about what they get paid. And so they need to be doing something that outperforms by 1% the market >> otherwise they're not worth their money so to speak. >> So uh yeah you you know you get in that but yeah but you can it's it's the Bogle

Bogle started Vanguard and they're called Bogleheads and his premise and his premise was correct. he's he was a genius was that the S&P 500 outperforms

more than half of the mutual funds.

So if you just blindly go pick a mutual fund, you'd have been better off to pick the S&P 500 index was his point. Yeah.

>> And that's why he started a no commission, no load S&P 500 at Vanguard.

And it's the famous thing in the stock market history. And so people that say, "I'm not going to think about this. I'm just going to dump it into S&P 500 and

I'm and I'll at least make what the stock market makes and I'll outperform more than 50% of the mutual funds by doing that. Those are called bogleheads.

>> Okay? And they're not new just cuz Tik Tok came along. >> No, I'm not saying they're new. I'm just saying I'm hearing it more [music] and more. >> People have the access to it. I've heard Dave Ramsey's a crook for 35 years because I told people not to do that and go get go pay a commission to outperform bogalheads. And Dave Ramsey's not a crook. I'm a genius.

You are

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union Studios.

There's a lot of discussion in America today about the 20somes, the Jenzers, and the

Millennials having an affordability

crisis.

A lot of it is centered towards home buying, but it's also just in general life is too expensive.

We don't make enough.

Capitalism is failing us and whatever.

And there is a serious pinch

on these two generations.

But it is not because things are too expensive. It is because the large banks

and the car companies and the US Congress have conspired to screw them.

We have record credit card debt, the most ever.

What's in your wallet? says the actor

on the commercial

over and over and over and over again.

They've been brainwashed to believe by the big banks that if I use a credit card, I can

prosper with the points and the airline miles, which is mathematically ludicrous.

They've been brainwashed by the lending industry that if they have a high FICO score that they are somehow winning when 100% of the mathematical items in the

algorithm for the FICO score are debt related.

You can inherit a million dollars and your FICO score doesn't change a point.

Your boss could give you a million dollar a year raise in your salary and your FICO score doesn't change a point.

It is not a financial health score. It is how much you've been screwed by City

Bank and Fifth Third and these large

banks and Ford Motor Company and General

Motors credit and Chrysler credit and Lexus credit. Need I go on with all the credits?

20% of the borrowers that left a the car

lot last month left with a car payment over $1,000 a

month. When you have a $1,000 a month

car payment or three

and you're really running up the credit card debt because you're chasing the FICO score that you've been taught to do

by these villains,

you have affordability issues. Add to

that, we've got 18 year olds that are loaned a $100,000 and the loan is guaranteed to be paid by

the US government.

What bank won't make this loan? Because they're 100% guaranteed to get their money. It's called a guaranteed student loan. And so, of course, they're going to want to loan this money. So, they loan $100,000 to an 18-year-old who can't buy beer.

and they choose a school based on the fact that the street is pretty in front of the school.

This is combined to create a two

generations that are completely handcuffed by these mega banks, the US Congress and

these car companies. And there's where your affordability crisis is coming from. Yes, if you're in Gen Z, you're feeling a pinch, but you also signed up for it, darling.

And these companies are screwing you.

And I think you ought to say enough is enough. If you want to get pissed off at something, it's not capitalism.

It's that you got screwed by the mega banks and you need to go back to something like a credit union or a small town local bank where they're not trying to screw you with every transaction.

>> You're making so much money. Yeah. Newsweek. Newsweek is reporting you may not be asking for more credit, but your bank systems were giving it to you anyway. Bank initiated credit limit increases. Four and five credit limit

increases in the United States are initiated by the bank rather than requested by the customers. So what's happening with your credit cards is they're sending you a notice that says, "Oh, we looked at your situation and you're so valuable that now you don't have a $5,000 limit. You have an $8,000 limit. You weren't even up to 5,000.

You weren't limited, but you now think that you can spend this, and so you go and spend again. Borrowers largely end up using the extra credit.

affordability issues. And evidence shows that borrowers they're altering their spending with changes in their credit limit even if they weren't previously constrained by the credit limit. So it's it's the mental game we talk about that to say that oh okay, you know that I'll spend as much with a credit card than a debit card proves to show you if you feel like you have a large amount of money to spend, >> you will spend it. They're altering their spending without even realizing it because the limits are increasing by the banks.

And then some on Tik Tok who was taught by his communist college professor that capitalism is bad is saying, "Oh, socialism is the answer." When the problem is not socialism or capitalism. The problem is these banks have been screwing an entire generation and no one's standing up for them.

We're going to kick your butt while we're doing it cuz we love you and we want you to get out of debt. So, stop jumping in the bear trap and then expecting not to have your leg torn off.

Of course, you're going to have pain when you jump in the bear trap. Stay away from the bear trap. These people are not your friends. I know they have a

glittering little smile. And Bradley Cooper is is camping out in the lobby. I

couldn't give a crap less.

It's the most advertised and marketed product on the planet. this thing called

debt. These people's job is to screw

you. And if you don't make it your job to quit being screwed, then you're going to have affordability issues, honey, because you're going to be what we call broke people.

So stand up and say, "I've had it. I'm

not We're not going to take it anymore." Play the old rock song, right? We're not going to take it anymore. And you know, I've had it. I'm not living like this, and I'm not going to play these people's games. If you want to be pissed off at something, don't be pissed off at capitalism. Capitalism is not your problem. Your problem is you stepped up into the bear trap and the bear ate you.

And it wasn't capitalism. It was a bank and a car company and a system that

redefined success improperly for you.

This is not success.

You are not successful when you have a high FICO score. All it means is you gave the bank a whole bunch of interest.

That's all a FICO score. Say, I have an 800 FICO score. And when someone tells me that, I always say, I'm so sorry.

I'm so sorry.

That's like saying I have high blood pressure and bragging about it. No, thank you. Don't do that. I'm so sorry.

So, if you want to fix your affordability, if you want this generation to fix their affordability issues, they can buy a house when they don't have $1,200 car payments.

and $150,000 student loan debt on a

degree in left-handed puppetry because

they were sold a lie that any degree is valuable and every degree is not valuable.

Oh, and your FICO score [music] is not a measure of financial wealth or health. It's a measure of how much you've been screwed.

When you get that right, you're going to get this whole affordability thing fixed. Boys and girls.

[music]

[music]

>> [music]

>> Tony is in Tallahassee. Hi Tony. How are you? >> All right. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, my question is I got a bunch of sterling silver I've been saving up. I started back in 2015 2017

and uh I was wondering if I should sell it and turn around and reinvested in

silver coins instead of the

sterling. >> Mhm. Okay.

Um well I don't buy precious metals as

an investment. I don't buy silver as an investment. >> So I would not since I don't do it I don't advise other people to do it. And the my reasoning is very simple. The rate of return sucks.

>> Well, I've already made like 66%

increase on what I've already purchased.

Like I said, I bought it in 2015 when the stock when the silver was about $15$20 an ounce.

>> Mhm. >> And I've already, you know, Yeah.

>> got 66% return on my investment already.

But I want to get rid of the uh sterling

and invest that into silver coins.

>> I mean 2015 you said, right?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Yeah. It was about $16 an ounce.

And I'm looking at a chart, right?

>> Right. >> And it hovered at $16 an ounce up until about five months ago. So all of your

return has come in a recent spike. It's not a steady investment. And following a recent spike in precious metals, you usually see a sharp decline. Um I I it's

a great time to sell silver. It's not a great time to buy silver.

>> No. No. That's why I'm concerned if I

should just sit on it and watch the stock market. If [snorts] it crashes, >> I would sell it and I would not be invested in silver. I mean, if you like silver, I I I would just challenge you.

Go back and look at the 50-year chart on it. Um it's basically flat with a couple

of spikes and one of them is in the last two years is the it's an unusual spike

but I mean over the last 50 years it's just kind of does nothing and then all of a sudden there's two places 2008 and now that there's a spike in the chart and that's it versus if you follow the stock market chart a good S&P 500 as an example we were talking about that earlier through that same period of time it's a steady increase.

So, you know, 23 and 24 were like 20

plus% on the S&P. The S&P to date in 25

is 17. And and so there's something last

year, three years that you're going to get your 66 pretty quick >> in that. And so, uh, in a shorter period of time than you got 66. And I don't think that's realistic in the stock market, by the way. But, but that's what has actually happened during the same period of time that you made 66 on the silver. And so I think your number's right. By the way, I'm not saying I'm not challenging your number. I'm just challenging that it's such an un it's an anomaly within the space. And I don't

buy things based on anomalies. I buy things based on trends and steady charting. You see, I'm going to see the chart go like steadily up up up.

>> Yeah. And this chart with silver on your computer, it is >> it's all over the map. >> Flat and a little spike and then flat and then a little spike and that's it.

And so I I'm, you know, I don't buy stuff like >> sell it now, Tony. Sell it all. Get out of it and you'll make the most you probably will make. >> Yeah. If you wait, it's going to drop.

And when you and you're going to lose the money that you made or that you haven't made because you haven't sold it. But there you go. Caroline's in Austin, Texas. Hey Caroline, what's up?

>> Hi. Um, so I'm a millennial and I was

one of the millennials that did the stupid thing of like go to school and take out like whatever loans to get the dream job. I did it. I got the dream job. Now I'm 35. Um, including our

house, our remaining school loans, and

the final the final items on our our list where our debts listed smallest to largest. My husband and I now our remaining debt is we have including the house, our school loans, um his car, and

uh a business credit card from when he ran his business, we have about $260,000

in debt. >> How much of that is your mortgage? Our

mortgage, we owe 122 on our house.

>> Okay. So, you have 140,000 in miscellaneous debt. How much of that is student loans?

>> Um, I owe 93,000 and my husband owes

22,000. >> So, 110 of the 140. So, the car and the

credit cards and all that are about 30.

>> Yes. Yeah. The vehicle is is 9 grand.

>> And your household income your household income is what?

Um, I make 85 a year, 85 grand a year, and my husband now makes 130k a year.

Um, we just established this income. Um,

uh, um, >> pretty much I was the bread winner during the pandemic. >> Um, we've been working the baby steps since 2018. Pre- pandemic, I was rolling like an extra thousand towards my >> How much have you paid off since 2018 to get to here?

>> Um, I So I So I went to school for 10 years. Now, you said in 2018 you started the baby steps. I ask how much you've been paid off since 2018.

>> I paid off $40,000 in my school loans.

>> So, you've been working them very hard.

>> Um, so my husband lost his job and then we had two babies. Oh. During the pandemic. >> All right. So, you really but you really made almost no progress on your baby steps as bottom line. Okay. Yeah. All right. >> Um, we we listed our smallest to largest debt. We paid off six of the We have 11

items on the list. We paid off six. So, the remaining items are my husband's car, >> the credit card for my husband's business. >> I got it. >> And then the student loans in the house.

>> Um, so I received an inheritance of about 600,000 in assets.

>> Whoa. Two.

>> Yes. Praise God.

>> Awesomeness. >> Two So, so 234,000 is cash and that's in

a savings account. um $100,000 is in

Exxon stock and then um um the other

remaining asset of that 600,000 is farmland that's valued at 250,000.

>> So you could sell everything but the farmland and be debtree.

>> Yes, >> do it. >> Um so so um I so I so my kids are two two

and three. >> Wait a minute. Stop. I I don't want to hear any more stories. Why would you not do that?

So, I I'm trying to figure out how to take a career pause. So, I want to go I'm I'm Is it dumb to just try to pay off >> if you paid off everything and kept the farmland and had a paid for house and paid for farmland and zero debt? No, you

wouldn't have a st You wouldn't have a mattress. You wouldn't have any debt. No mortgage, no nothing.

>> Your husband makes what?

>> 130. >> 130. >> And you want to quit and come home and live on 130? Sure, you could do that.

And then our savings would be nothing.

Wouldn't that be unwise?

>> Your savings would be nothing.

>> You'd have you'd have the farmland. No, it's not unwise. You have a $130,000 income and zero debt. You ought to be able to invest now and start investing.

>> Okay. Okay. >> How old are you? You said you're 30. You said you're 35. >> I'm I'm 35 and I want to take a pause by the time I'm 38. >> Yeah. So, take have at it. Take a take a

take a calculator. Pull it up. Pull up pull it up at ramseyolutions.com. Okay, pull up our our retirement calculator and put in these numbers. Okay, >> 15% of 130,000,

>> okay? >> For 30 years, >> okay? >> And that's going to be about $17,000 a about about 1,500 bucks a month. That's if your husband never gets a raise and you never go back to work and you save 15% of your income.

>> When you put that in for 35 years, you're going to see $5 million or $6 million.

Okay. And we'd own our house and we'd have no debt. All that time you'd have no debt. 6 million. Yeah. All that time you'd have no debt. The farmland's going up, the family land, and your house is going up and you're going to go back to work and he's going to get raises. So, you're going to end up with $10 million.

>> Oh my gosh. Okay. Thanks. This is exactly what I needed to pay all the debt. And I Okay, cool. But you got to do the whole thing. Okay. You can't just >> Yeah. >> You can't just go, "Oh, well, something happened." No, no, no, no, no. another happen. We're putting this money aside.

>> And Caroline, you know, it's been 8 years of you guys working this plan. Like you and there's car loans in here and all of it, right? Like you you guys Yeah. You guys have to agree that if we're going to go this debtree route, we're going to live that way for the rest of our lives.

>> If we get ready to buy a car, we have to save up and pay for it. If we're going on vacation, we have to save up and pay for it >> or we can't go. >> Absolutely. I've owned my car since 2015.

>> But your husband has. >> Yeah.

>> You haven't owned his car. Quit doing that stuff. Okay. >> It's exciting though, Caroline. You guys can do this. >> This is awesome. You're in great shape, but you can't fall back off the wagon and hit the numbers I'm talking about.

[music]

>> [music]

[music]

>> Christmas is almost here. Our deals are still going strong though. Grab gifts while you can. These prices won't last much longer and it's [music] not much time to ship stuff. We got to get it to you. Rachel Cruz sitting right to my right has three kids book. One on gratit great books. One on gratitude, one on generosity, one on contentment. They're on sale right now. They're incredible.

The illustrations, the stories are amazing. $13 each. If you're shopping

for everyone else, our deals are still going. 13 best-selling hard coverver or

$13 for bestselling hardcover books at Ramsey. All of our stuff just about are there. $13 career assessments, $12 for

qu questions for humans cards, and $7.99

for audio books and ebooks. Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Eugene and Carol are with us. Hey guys, what's up? >> Hey Dave. Hey Rachel. We're so excited to be here. >> We're glad to have you. I see on my screen you guys are baby steps millionaires. Tell us what your net worth is.

So Dave, it is about $2,326,000.

>> Good for you. Give me a little breakdown on that. How's that 2 million broken out? >> Yes. So about 950,000 is the home which we bought 12 years ago

for 375. So >> Mhm. >> We're blessed with that. Retirement little bit about a million 003.

Emergency fund 98,000.

>> Mhm. Um, for the college, we have done

for the kids about $175,000.

We have two of them. They're 13 and 12.

And in cars, we have three vehicles. All

pay for about $70,000, the three of them combined.

>> And And how much of this did you all inherit?

>> Zero. >> Zero. >> Zero. I like it. Okay. And your age is

right now, how old are you?

>> I'm 44. >> Mhm. and I'm 47.

>> Cool. And what were your careers or are your careers?

>> Um I have an MBA.

>> And I'm in sales.

>> And you're what, Eugene?

>> I'm in sales. >> Sales. Okay. And what was your career, Carol, with your MBA?

>> Um I worked um in marketing. I worked in

marketing, director of marketing for a long time. >> And what's the most you guys have made as a couple in a year?

about 200,000. >> Okay. And what's the worst year you had as a couple income?

>> Um probably in the beginning when we first started, we were each making about 30,000 a year.

>> Okay. So 60 to 200 was the range. You're 44 and 47. You have 2.3 million. You did not inherit any of it. What was your GPA

in college?

>> Mine was 3.8 and Eugene 3.2.

>> Okay. All right. Smart but not geniuses.

I like it. Very good. [laughter] >> No, not at all.

>> What do you What do you drive, Eugene?

>> So, I have Well, after becoming millionaires, um, I bought for my wife a

brand new van, Toyota Sienna that she wanted it. We upgraded her 8-year-old Sienna. >> Mhm. >> And I just got a You're going to love this, Rachel. A Model Y, a Tesla.

>> I knew I liked you. I knew I liked you.

And the minivan. Y'all are like our favorite. I mean, you're you're running an 8-year-old minivan, right? [laughter] No, >> a brand new one >> that we have that we have bought pre doing the baby steps. Yeah. >> Oh, you bought the van eight years ago.

>> Yeah. When they got the first one? Yeah.

>> Yeah. We So, Dave, when we started the baby steps, we downgraded. I had a really leather seat interior minivan.

And we went down to club seats cuz we had to get on the plan. And so after we became debtree, Eugene's like, "Okay, we're going to go buy you your dream car, which is a van." >> Yes. [laughter] >> With letter C's and all the bells and whistles. >> I get it. >> Okay. So, you're in Miami and I hear an accent. What is your heritage?

>> We are from Colia.

>> Our parents are from Colombia. Carl was actually born here in New Jersey.

>> Beautiful family. >> We see the picture. >> Thank you. >> But I came from Colombia when I was 19

years old. Okay. >> With two rolling backs and $90 in my pocket and >> wow, >> you know, we've been blessed.

>> Amazing. >> Yeah, you've worked your tails off. >> The American dream is what you've experienced. It's incredible.

Congratulations. I'm so proud of y'all.

Way to go, guys. Well, I got to ask you, and I know the answer, but I got to ask you, can it still be done today?

>> Absolutely. It can still be done. Um, you know, you sometimes you ask people, what would you say to your younger self?

So it's um you know this is built on on

consistency not on income. Um you got to

get on financial peace, get on a written budget. You know you have to really drink the Kool-Aid. We teach SEU and we tell people you cannot do thisish. You have to you can't do this is you have to do it fully. You have to live below your means. It absolutely can be done.

>> Uh you sometimes ask people how do you feel to be a millionaire? Honestly guys, it doesn't feel like we're millionaires.

Most of our money is tied up in retirement and real estate, so we can't >> You're driving an 8-year-old Toyota.

[laughter] >> Our still are in a budget. Even when our two kids, they have their own folder in the Every Dollar app. >> Yes. Yes. We go to $6 movies on

Tuesdays. Our kids joke around that we still live like no one else in the Jeep side that when are we going to [laughter] go to the other side?

[gasps] So, um yeah, it's been such an adventure. We're so honored, so honored uh to talk to you and and Dave, we you changed our life in in 2016 and you put

Dave, you put God put you on our path.

Um and we thought that it was possible.

Um and and we had a dream, you know, and and Proverbs says, "The fools are headstrong and they do what they like and wise people take advice." And so we >> took your advice. >> Wow. Well, we're honored to be a part of your story. You're definitely the hero in the story. very very well done. All

the way from uh from nothing from $90 in

your pocket and two roller bags to $2.3 million net worth, paid for house,

retirement's full of a million dollars.

Uh no inheritance. They did not inherit their money. So all you people that think that that's what happens, that's not what happens. What happens is sweat and calluses and consistency and focus

and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus and sweat and calluses and consistency and focus. That's what happens. Yeah, you guys are amazing. I'm so so proud of you. Hey, thanks for sharing your story with us. Okay, >> thank you guys. It's such an honor. Well done, you guys. >> You too. >> Very cool. the I I I have decided we've

been interviewing these Baby Steps millionaires for years now and I started asking about I don't know two years ago when I'm talking to them um what car they're driving. The number of them that have a Toyota >> of some kind. Not not a Hyundai and not

a Honda. A Toyota of some kind. I don't

know what it is about Toyota.

>> They're are great cars. >> They are good cars, but it's just very interesting. It's not a It's not a used Lexus. It's a Toyota. Yep. Yep.

>> You know, and it's just over and over and over again. I hear Toyota. I hear Toyota. >> I don't usually hear Tesla. That was a new one. >> Okay. Mhm. >> That doesn't usually come up, but yeah.

>> Why am I blanking on my the toy? Oh, the Odyssey. I was like, why am I blanking on my van? The Toyota van. It's amazing.

>> Oh, yours. >> No, no, it's a Honda. Oh, mine's a Honda. Never mind. >> Yours is [laughter] a Honda. Yeah. Okay.

>> I don't know cars. Well, >> it's still It's still a minivan. A very nice minivan. But >> that's right. The Toyota Sienna. That's it. Yeah. Toyota. >> Oh, and that's what they had the Sienna.

>> They had the Sienna. Yeah, that that's But they have a Toyota. >> I hear. Yeah. I hear >> they don't match you exactly. They have minivan and a Tesla, but different brand minivan. >> That's fair. That's fair. Sorry. >> Very cool. >> I don't know why to why I loved the Toyota idea, but >> it's just I I just run into it a lot.

And the other thing is I I I find that millionaires forgot to upgrade their cars. Um, this one's not too bad, so I

didn't I didn't. But often times I'm telling, "Hey dude, go buy your wife a car." Really? I mean, a 93 Camry and you're worth $4 million. Come on, dude.

Time to upgrade the car. Pay cash for it, but it's time to upgrade it. Come on, man. Come on, man.

>> And so, the number of times I'm saying telling a millionaire that they need to upgrade their >> watch the car. >> They forgot. They just They >> will You ever Will you ever have a self-driving car? Any part of you at all? A Tesla? Like, would you ever >> I hardly ever say never on anything mechanical. I mean, I I I I cannot

visualize having a car that I have to plug in the wall. I can't get my head around it. And I can't visualize not having the the thrill of driving. I love

driving a really good car.

>> And I, you know, in and especially a nice curvy Tennessee mountain road, right? It's a lot of fun.

>> You think you're going to die if you're in the passenger seat. >> Yeah. And I'm But I No, I I think you know what is it? Phoenix has got all of the the We go or whatever they're called now. What are they called? The the self-drivers. >> Yeah. >> Oh, the the like t Yes. It's like It's like a taxi. >> Whimo. I got close. Okay. Yeah. [music] Like Henry Henry Cloud sent me a picture of riding and no >> driving. That's weird. That That's That's pretty crazy. Yeah.

[music]

>> [music]

>> Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with [music] much. So if you've not been trustworthy in handling worldly wealth, who will trust you with true riches? Luke 16 10

and 11. Nelson Mandela said, "Money won't create success. The freedom to make it will." Courtney is with us in

Tampa. Hi Courtney. Merry Christmas.

>> Yes. Hi. Thank you for having me.

>> Sure. What's up? I took Financial Peace University earlier this year and I'm in baby step two with about 33,000 of remaining credit card debt. Good for you. But I'm wanting to live Thank you.

in baby step seven. So, how do I handle

wanting to live generously, especially with, you know, the recent shutdown and people struggling and working in an area where I I think part of it is like I have cash in my pocket now and I want to, you know, give it to the guy that's sitting outside 7-Eleven or something, but how do I live generously and feeling like I have the means to do so, but still have my own debt to tackle?

>> Yeah. Well, um, you know, baby step two

is we're living on a detailed tight budget. We're not going out to eat. We're not going on vacation. And any money we can squeeze out of anything, extra work or under

spending or anything, we throw at the smallest debt, which would not mean there's cash in your pocket.

>> Understood. >> So, that means it's going on the smallest debt. Now, it's a really good question, though. You've got a great heart. And I will tell you that over the years of doing this that the people that are motivated by potentially becoming

outrageously generous do some of the

best work of getting out of debt and building wealth because they they have a good reason, a good why for building wealth. >> The idea that you want to be a baby step seven and give away not just pocket change but serious money and help somebody in a serious way. Uh that motivator is so noble. It's such a calling on your heart that uh it will lead you out of debt, a higher probability of getting out of debt and faster than than something that you wanted selfishly.

So, you're you're an incredible lady. I I I predict big things for you.

the same heart. We desperately wanted to be generous and had no money [laughter]

>> because all of it was going on debt. So all we did was we just did acts of service >> and you tithed. >> And so we we tithed. We give a tenth of our income. That's that's a baseline.

But above that, we didn't walk around and you know, we didn't but maybe we couldn't support the homeless shelter with a $50,000 gift, but we could go serve soup.

>> Mhm. >> And maybe we couldn't maybe we couldn't give the widow down the street that had lost her husband um you know, a $10,000 gift to help her with anything. But we we could cut her grass and clean out her gutters and we did >> and make her dinner or watch the kids while she goes out or something. >> You can make dinner. Dinner doesn't cost much anything to make dinner for somebody or watch somebody's kids. Like Rachel said, there's all kinds of acts of service that you can do.

>> And honestly, it comes out of the exact same muscle, the exact same place in your heart that giving monetary gifts does. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Generous people are the ones that hold the door for you at the supermarket.

>> Yes. you know, >> and I do love your heart in it, Courtney. And I think the way I would be positioning it in my mind is that if I

make a sacrifice right now by cleaning this up, getting out of debt so that I'm in a good place financially, you're going to be able to give more obviously

than now. But even if you lived with debt for the rest of your life, you would always just have some change in your pocket to give the guy. Versus if you were debtree and you were on a plan and giving was one of those motivators or a priority for you where you're going to be giving more than maybe the average person that gives, you're you're going to have the means to be able to do that and even make a bigger impact for somebody, right? I mean, to go in to that single mom and pay her lights for a year.

You know, you'll be able to write a check and just do that. But you can't do that right now, right? And if you live how you're living now, you'll never be able to get to that place where you'll have a lot to be able to give. So there's something about being debtree that frees up your income.

Not just obviously for yourselves, but >> for for other people of what you're saying.

>> You guys always hear us say uh live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So you have a

better quality of life and a higher level of generosity than anyone else >> because you paid a price to get there.

And the the biblical verse that caused us to come up with that saying is no discipline seems pleasant at the time.

And listen to this from a generosity perspective, but it yields a harvest of

righteousness. What's more righteous than generosity? I mean, what what's more holy than generosity? Not many

things, you know? And so, you're really touching the part of your heart that God installed. He installed the whole thing.

But the part of him that's most the part of your heart that's most like God when you're giving. He gave his only son.

We're celebrating. >> Jesus did, right? I mean, that's his example. He was serving constantly to

people. And so, yeah, there's there is that element that is >> Yeah. And so, you know, that's interesting. Jesus never gave money.

>> I don't think he made any. >> I know. >> I guess he did as a carpenter. >> I guess I guess he Yeah, he did. He He had a job. >> Yeah. He I think he pul I think he pulled or Peter somebody pulled a coin out of the fish's mouth, right?

>> But um give to Caesar what is Caesars's.

But I I don't there's I don't think there's I never thought about it. There's never there's >> it's definitely not a prevalent Bible >> story of Jesus giving money. But he did give acts of service. Yes. >> Healing on the Sabbath. I mean, you know, on and on, right? >> Washing the disciples feet. I mean, his life was service to be >> and that's the ultimate of generosity.

Very good. Courtney, you're going to be great. You're already great. Brett is with us in Boisey. Hi Brett. What's up?

>> Hi. Um my question today is um me and my

wife are about $160,000 in debt right now. >> Good lord. >> Um 135 Yeah. 135 of that is student loan

debt. >> Good lord. >> Um on her side and then 24,000 of that

is car debt. >> What's her degree in?

>> Her degree is a bachelor's of science and then she has a certificate in business. >> Bachelor of Science in what?

Um, that's I mean I'm looking at her diploma right now. That's all it says. It's just it's Bachelor of Science.

>> What did she study? >> Um, she has a she has an emphasis on uh on biology I suppose, but >> Oh, okay. Okay.

>> Um, so my question was um

>> Oh, she works at St. Luke's Hospital right now. >> What does she make? She >> She makes about like 17 an hour.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. And what do you make?

>> Um, I actually just got back from deployment. Um, I made about 70,000 this

last 10 months. >> Um, but I'm going back to school right now to get an AMP certificate.

>> So, y'all are broke.

>> Yeah. >> Thanks. Thanks for your service, but dude, you need some income in that house.

>> Yeah. Um, that's what we plan on doing.

I mean, this uh next two years when I go to school, um, I'm looking at AMP jobs.

I mean, I should be making around 30 to $40 an hour. >> Yeah. Why aren't you working while you're in school?

>> I am working while I'm in school. I'm I I literally just got back, so I'm still looking for >> The way you were saying it, I thought you were quitting or weren't doing anything. Okay. So, are you're you're off deployment, but you're not out of the service.

>> No. Um I'm I'm in the National Guard, so >> Oh, okay.

>> I got you. Okay.

Well, we want to go to we want to go back to school. She wants to get her master's degree. Um, which she will be paying her pocket. Um, because she can't she can't find a job right now. Um, she wants to get into dietetics and she just can't find anything. And she thinks that this master's degree is going to get her a job. >> Nah.

>> How old are you guys?

>> Um, I'm 25 and she's 23.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. A master's degree doesn't solve it. >> No. No. you you've got other issues going on. So, um I you know I think

there's a lot of possible tracks that she could take with a uh the biology degree that is a lot better than $17 an hour. Obviously, you could have made $17 an hour without a degree. Um breathing,

you can make $17 an hour. So, um

uh yeah. So, no. I mean, you guys really desperately need to get your income up and then tear through these loans as fast as possible. um you got a mess on your hands and you know going deeper into bought a car you can't afford for sure. >> Good lord. And you know and going more into debt to to go get a master's degree to be a dietitian. No thank you.

>> Nope. Nope. Nope. Look at what the incomes are.

Nope. I I I think you got to study your career tracks and decide where we're going to go and how we're going to pay for [music] it and then save up and get this get these debts cleaned up. Y'all got a mess on your hands, brother. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 266. You Don't Get Ahead By Coincidence | April 17, 2026


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:36:08 |

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Normal is broke and common sense [music] is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Alongside the fabulously incomparable Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken [music] Coleman, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225

is the phone number to jump [music] in. 888-825-5225.

Partner, you ready to go?

Let's go. >> She's ready. Denise is joining us in Toronto. Denise, how can we help today?

Hello. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.

Um my question, I am needing help to

create financial stability when I am

starting over in life at the age of 51.

And I'm in a difficult situation going

through a divorce.

And I feel like I don't have time to waste with taking steps forward financially, and so I need a plan.

Um I'm guessing you need more information than that. Yeah, so let's start with are you employed? I am employed, yes. >> How much do you make? >> So, I make 45,000 a year, which after

taxes where I live, um comes out to be about 2,500 a month.

Okay, can you live on 2,500 a month?

I I am Yes, I'm I'm making it work.

Okay. Um >> So, that's a good starting point. And the reason I'm I'm stopping this momentum here, Jade Jade's going to jump in and walk you through some really specific stuff, but let's just pause for a moment and let's take a deep breath and realize what you just told us.

Uh-huh. It's not ideal.

Right. It kind of sucks. Mhm. But we can live.

And I think that's really important to hold on to, Jade. As she's about ready to, you know, to go into a new life. So,

so you're going to be okay and make it.

Now, let's let's bring Jade in. Let's talk about how we thrive. Okay? So, give us more of your financial picture. What do we know need to know that we don't know?

Um I am renting. I pay $1,500 a month in

rent. Oof. Um My. for a 400 square foot apartment.

And just to backtrack a little bit, coming out of the divorce, it's possibly going into court soon.

Um for zero transparency and dishonest

disclosure of his income. So, there's a lot of difficulty there, and I'm not sure I'll recover or get anything.

Sure. How are you paying for a lawyers?

How are you paying for that?

Right now, I have $4,000 in legal fees.

And my lawyer is either going to be paid after a settlement or for what is owed to me is possibly recovered, but I there's no guarantee on that. What is owed to you?

Uh um there was a 10-year separation where he was being dishonest about his income. And so, there's $237,000

>> that should have been paid to me.

But he's been very strategic and Okay.

And so, there I mean, there's a lot of backstory there, but as soon as I went to a lawyer to get help, he walked away from his job, lowered his income, So, there's there's $237,000 at stake. I don't want us to focus too much on that, cuz the truth is you don't know if you're going to get it or not. I do want to be have some thoughts about this these legal fees coming up because you might be on the hook for that. Is there other any other debt to speak of?

Uh right now I have about $2,000 in credit card debt, of which should be paid off by I should pay it off by the end of this year, no problem. How Okay, I want to camp out on that because I'm seeing somebody who has $1,000 to spend on groceries, gas, and everything else in life. How are you paying off the 2K no problem? Um I've I've just putting aside money every

month. Okay. >> And I feel like at the end like I'm living very small. Well, yeah. How much margin do you have?

Um so after everything is said and done,

my cost of living can be around 2,300 a month. >> Okay, so you got $200 in extra margin, but you called because there's a sense of urgency around really your future. My

my future. And my question, you know, I look at and I watch the shows. I'm you know, I have a thousand in savings now.

I'm kind of looking at the steps forward, but should I be investing? You know, is retirement possible for me? Yeah, let's let's talk about that. So, I want to kind of dial back and put this in order of of importance. So, the first thing is I love the fact that you've got $200 of margin to Ken's point earlier. That should help you sleep at night knowing, "Hey, I'm not in the red." However, we both know it can't continue like this.

And honestly, the way's forward, there's nothing else to cut out of the budget.

There's nothing else on that end. This is an income issue. Therefore, this is a

career issue. And so, my question for you is the type of work that you're doing now, is that the type of work you see yourself doing in the next 2 to 3 years?

Yes. Um so I'm currently a church office administrator.

And I've always been in ministry my whole life. Um but I'm looking at that and I'm looking at being self sustainable financially. And so, I'm even thinking Look, right now it's keeping me afloat.

But is there a way for that Is there a trajectory for that income to increase over time? >> No. And that's >> now. Yeah. That's where I'm at because if I'm if I'm just being conservative with you, if I if I say, "Okay, best-case scenario, she takes that $200 and she starts investing it immediately from age 51 to age 71, that's $151,000.

Like, that's not going to sustain you.

And so, we have to have a very real conversation in reality about what it

actually takes monetarily for you to be able to retire. And the answer to that is income. Yeah. How would you describe Denise? I want you to take the ministry language out of it. You'll understand why I'm asking this in a moment. Sure. I want you to describe what you do.

Right now, I work in administration. And so, I'm running an entire church right now because we're without a pastor. So, I I do music, I do um graphic design.

Mhm. Um the social media part of it.

>> Mhm. Um everything that Do you do operations?

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Here's Here's why I asked you the question. I think this is an important exercise for you to describe what you do. Now, your situation is it's kind of a uh

you're doing everything right now, so we need to extrapolate, kind of pull back from that a little bit and go, "Okay, if there was a pastor there and the adequate staff, what would you be doing?" And here's why I think this is important. >> Mhm. I know you love ministry, I know you've been in ministry, but right now ministry is not the best financial option for you. And if you could go get a job as an office manager or maybe a

project manager uh where we're making 55, 60 I mean, I'm

just again, I don't know the Canadian uh workplace, I don't know the marketplace, but I I know that I'm I'm saying things that are adjacent. You have the skill set and the experience to do those things, true or false? True.

Okay. Right now, the number one thing you need to do is you need to replace your job. Mhm. And this is not I love my church,

there's no pastor, if I leave the church is in trouble. That's not your problem.

Right. There are two ships in this conversation that are taking on a lot of water. >> [laughter] >> Mhm. The church and you.

And I'm not worried about the church. The church will be fine. I am worried about you. So, I think Jade's absolutely right. We need to juice that income by 15, 20, 25,000 dollars.

>> Yes. And now that gives me breathing room. I can pay off the the uh the lawyer debt. Mhm. >> I can self-sustain and begin to move on and then I can invest.

And work in the baby steps. So, hang on the line. We're going to give you a total money makeover. Mhm.

>> Uh that's your plan. That is your plan going forward. We're very sorry, by the way, that you're going through this and understand you're in a season of grief right now. And so, getting through the grief is number one. And what will help you is more money.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Next, we go to Minneapolis, where Jennifer awaits. Jennifer, how can we help?

Hi. Um I am coming into a bunch of money

uh through a settlement. And um I just

I don't have any financial background. I don't know what I'm doing. Like I'm going to go through the baby steps very quickly once I get

that money, but then I have no clue what I'm doing here. Mhm.

Wow. So, I can tell this money right now feels a little bit like a stressor, and I can understand that. How much money is it?

So, the floor is a quarter million dollars, and the ceiling is 5 million dollars. Whoa. >> Wow. Okay.

>> stretch. Can you give us some variables as to what you know which would determine where it lands in that massive range?

Um basically, it's whatever. Like

there's a a history of settlements with this particular company. Um the highest one settled for

180 million but it's not like that's not a hundred

percent my situation. When will you know?

Um my attorneys told me it'll settle this year. Okay.

Okay. Um but you know for a fact you're getting 250 at least. Minimum. Yes. And

you know that for a fact.

For a fact, yeah. >> Okay. Um how much So it's So tell us your financial situation. Give us a picture because you've said hey I'm not financially literate. What does that equated to? How much debt? Tell us what's going on.

Okay. So um my The most I've ever made in a single year is $42,000.

Um and like so we just did our taxes last year and we did $31,000.

>> Between the two of you?

Yeah. >> You and your husband? Yeah. What kind of work is that?

Um well, initially he was he was working

at a foundry and then um we he moved across the country for a better job, which was also a foundry, but just more money. But what about you?

I don't work. And you've never worked?

I've worked like I think in my life I've

worked a total of maybe three years. Why is that?

Um it's it's hard to tell like one one thing because it doesn't make sense on its own. Like everything's kind of a snowball effect. So Um >> So there's not a strong working history.

Has and the income that is brought in is is low compared to, you know, median standards out there in the US. Tell us

Tell us about the debt. Tell us about what your lifestyle has looked like.

Okay. So our debt combined is around

$55,000 total. That's um the car payment, that's uh

credit cards, um other financial obligations that we have. Like what?

Another one of those snowball things. I owe federal restitution for $39,000.

Taxes? >> Okay.

What's the plan? That's okay.

[clears throat] Everything stops. The there's a screeching tire sound here.

What is the plan?

>> On the 39,000. I'm assuming you're in some type of agreement or payment plan, yes? Yes. Yes. Um I I have to submit

like our financial situation once a year

to the DOJ and they review it and then tell me what I have to pay monthly.

Um they put a hold on my payments for a year because we were not doing well.

Okay. Okay, so you got to fight you got to At least we have something working there. >> Okay. Um going back to your initial fears, um yeah, the best thing for you

is going to be to learn as much information as you can and you called the right place to get that. Um Yeah. My my fear for you going forward if you don't choose to change and learn more about is debt, okay? Because what can It

doesn't matter how much money you make, you can't out-earn financial illiteracy and you can't out-earn stupid choices with money, right? And you can't, you know, settlement out of it, none of that will work, you'll blow through it. So, Right. >> the biggest thing that I want to get you connected with is before we get off the phone, I'm going to send you some resources and I want you to just full

force go into them. I'm going to send you the Total Money Makeover. We're going to get you hooked up with every dollar and inside of every dollar, um there's a lot of teaching materials, but I want you to go old school and I'm also going to give you Financial Peace University because that's really that's like the intensive version and I want you to do that. >> Yeah. Um watched Financial Peace University when I was 20.

So, I'm that's why I was familiar with the baby steps and everything.

>> good. Then I want you to go back and refresh it because even the best of the best of us need to go back and get a refresher on that. So, what's going to happen when this money comes in?

Absolutely, you're going to take it and you're going to pay off the restitution, you're going to pay off the credit cards, you're going to pay off the car.

But, the precursor to the baby steps working is twofold. And these are the things that you've got to lock in. And if you don't lock them in, nothing I tell you is going to work, okay? So, here we go. Number one, you have got to decide today, I don't borrow money.

You have to stop borrowing money for any reason. I I just don't borrow money.

Because what'll happen is there'll be something that you want and you'll go, "Well, I can put a lot down." And you'll just kind of creep over that line. So, you've got to decide, I don't borrow money anymore. That is going to keep your income yours, and it's going to keep the risk off your back, and it's going to keep you from sliding back into those behaviors that you're afraid you're going to slide back into. So, you've just got to put a hard boundary there.

Boundaries are good, okay? That's thing one.

Okay, so just for some context, like we

budget everything. We budget everything.

We don't buy extravagantly.

Like, the debt that we have on our credit cards is for necessities that we

could not cover. Okay.

>> Can I jump in? Can I jump in? Jennifer, I know you're hurting.

And Jade's right what she said, but can I tell you something? The reason you guys are hurting is cuz you don't have enough income.

Yeah. >> And I absolutely believe that you believe that everything you put on that credit card was a necessity.

Yeah. >> But, I have a hard time agreeing with your classification of it.

What is a necessity is is you and your

husband both in the United States of America in the Minneapolis area should be making combined minimum 60,000.

Yeah. You know it and I know it. I don't

say that in any way with a hint of judgment, so please don't feel judgment.

But you called us to help you and I'm telling you Jade's 100% right. But when she told you the truth, your response was, "Well, we do budget. We just had all these things happening and we had to go to a credit card." No, what you need to do is be making more income. So that when things happen, we can cover it.

Okay? >> Right. So the baby steps get us to that place and baby step three. So I'm going to tell you I'm going to give it back to Jade, but I wanted to jump in and say I wouldn't wait until the settlement comes in. >> Thank you. I was just about to get to that. >> you need to go get a job today. And I don't care if it's the late shift at the local gas station.

I don't care if it's stocking shelves at Walmart. I don't care if it has anything remotely close to dignity attached to it in your mind because good, hard work is dignified. I think you guys got to change your life and take some ownership of the situation and go, "We're no longer going to get in a situation like that because we do know how to budget." But your problem is not budgeting, your problem is you don't have anything to budget. Yeah, and I want to take that a step forward and tell you the I'll tell you my why behind it.

I'm sure Ken has one.

Yeah, I know that. >> know what I'm saying? Right. I don't want you to think that the only way you get ahead is something hap you know, happenstance takes place and thank goodness, right?

I want you to have the confidence to know that you can get out there to quote Dave Ramsey, you can kill something and drag it home. You can go out there and make it happen. And the way things are, life is kind of happening to you. Oh, he went here to do this boundary and he went here to do this boundary.

And then the accident happened and then the this and that. No, no, no, no, no.

Okay. [music] You know what I'm saying?

But here's the deal. On the settlement, we're going to tell you to walk the baby steps out. Are you familiar with the baby steps? I am. [music] Okay. So, it doesn't matter if it's 250 or 5 million.

The baby steps.

That's what you do.

But you have got to take some ownership

now. We're not just going to sit around and wait for the settlement. Cuz let me tell you about settlements. They have a sneaky way of taking way longer to get paid out than maybe that you were told.

And sometimes, Jade, shockingly, they don't end up being the amount that we were told. >> lawyers, those fees, those taxes.

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The link is in the show notes if you're on podcast or YouTube. Josh is up next in Phoenix. Josh, how can we help?

Hey guys, can you hear me okay?

>> Yes, loud and clear. Hey, thanks so much.

You guys helped my wife and I get out of a hundred thousand dollars worth of debt. We called last year, we were in baby step two and now we're on five and six. So here I am.

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah, Jade you told me to just pay off my car and I I didn't want to do it at first, but I just did the next day and and here we are. So >> go. Good things happen when you listen to Jade. >> Just get in time. >> [laughter] >> Everybody in the listening to show need to listen to Jade. Okay? All right, go ahead Josh.

Jade will do it. I'm telling you.

We we have two young boys and I'd like to set up a financial future for them. I set aside right now $250 a month for each of them. It could be more, but right now it's going into a UTMA account. But I realized that one day they're going to wake up at 18 at that rate with $60,000 and I just hand them the keys. And so I

will do my best to make them as financially literate as possible. Do I put it in a 529? They might not go to school. Do I put it in a mutual fund in my name and then we can have a conversation, but it's I want it to be used for school, but I can't tell them how to spend it in the UTMA. So if there's something that you recommend at that rate that I probably will put more than 250 a month for each of them.

And I just don't want to I don't want to give 18-year-old, you know, still 18. So

Well, just calling to see what you guys recommend. I I agree with you.

I shy back from the idea of giving a large sum of money to an 18-year-old,

especially when at that point, yeah, they're on their own. The money's now in their name and you can't really govern it the way you'd like to. I I would I would be partial to throwing it in a 529 account instead, especially at the rate that you're investing. I don't think that you're going to overfund um certainly not overfund college, but I don't even think you're going to overfund higher ed in general with that type of money.

If they want some form of certificate, if they want to do some you know, something in the trades, I think that that's a good sum of money. And you've got to remember that it is transferable.

It can go on if that you know, child

wanted to then keep that money for for their kids, but just know that over time that money can be pulled out and it can transfer to an IRA at a certain point in

time. So, it's not like forever lost.

It's just allowing that transition to take place, but I don't think you're going to over fund it.

Okay, and you don't what happens I mean if in the scenario where both of them actually don't go to school and use it?

You can put it in an IRA. Can you pull it out? Does it get um penalized or anything if you then then did pull that sum of money out? >> So, at any point you can pull the money out.

If you pull it out for non-education purposes, you are going to be penalized. It's a 10% penalty. So, just know that, but it does roll over over time. I can check that for you.

Can keep him busy. I'm going to check when it uh >> [laughter] >> rolls over. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Um, and and your kids are how old?

They're four and six. We've got plenty of time. >> you do, but here's the other thing I was going to tell you just to be thinking about as you're trying to figure out what's the right amount.

Education is changing so rapidly right now in the United States. I can't even imagine what higher education looks like

in 12 to 14 years. I'm not kidding you.

Uh, so I think it's going to be radically different. I don't see the traditional higher ed format. That's just me. This is not a hot take for me, but it's a hot take for some people, but I'm telling you I'm paying attention to these trends.

So, you know, looking at the current cost of tuition and trying to figure out my point is just pick a solid number that's going to get them where they need to be based on maybe where things are today. Don't overthink about what it's going to how much it's going to cost cuz I think if anything, the cost is going to go down. I think it's going to be decentralized. Uh so I I at some point we're going to hit a breaking point and I think we're really darn close.

So, that's the part I wanted to give you that I hope is some good context in choosing the amount to invest. Jade, you got what you were looking for? >> Yeah, there's a lot of different uh parts to this. So, number one, uh the 529, it needs to have been in existence uh for the current beneficiary for at least 15 years.

So, in the case of your children, that would be the case, right? They've had this money, uh they've decided not to go to college, they've held onto it for a while, and then that's going to have to be rolled over um to a five from a 529 uh in a minimum of 5 years. So, there's some nuance there. I think you can dig deeper in that to decide, but I honestly, like I said, I think if you split this out and I think that if you, like I said, do part of it 529, part of it in a mutual fund, it gives you more control.

>> That's my point. It may be trade school.

Yeah. You know, uh it you know, if that kid wants to get into technology, I think that's going to look wildly different. You know, so don't stress over this. Be wise um and

and know that you've got a lot of options. Anything remotely related to some type of training or education is going to be able to be used. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, talk to you talk to a Smart Investor Pro about this and uh make the best plan.

Don't I but I would I I guess what I'm getting at is I wouldn't over save. No, I wouldn't over save. And like I said, you can check out the Secure 2.0 Act. Uh that's the one that talks about you can move those monies uh to a Roth IRA.

limit. So, just kind of think through that. Like, what would that look like to move this amount over this amount of time? Um yeah. Yeah. Yeah, thanks, Josh.

You're a good dad. You're doing great.

Uh you know, broader issue here. Uh I touched on this a minute ago, I'm going to revisit this for our audience. As you start to look at the baby steps, okay? And so, for people that are going, "Okay, I'm I'm late 30s, maybe I'm early 40s, and

we're just getting into the baby steps." Baby step one, $1,000 for that rainy day

kind of garden-variety emergency. Boom, that's important. Baby step two, smallest debt all the way up to the largest debt. Momentum, we're going to knock it out. Game changer, super important, right? Baby step three, three to six months of your expenses in the bank. Now, we're feeling really good at night when we go to bed. Uh baby step four, now we're planning for the future.

15% towards retirement. And then, some of you're going, "I'm so far behind with my kids." Baby step five feels like a really rough emotional confrontation.

>> Yes. All right, I'm just calling it out. Abs- absolutely. Here's what I want to say.

Don't fall into the trap that your kid has to go to a super expensive school,

to a name-brand school, or that they have to have a student loan for any amount of professional success, because that is the cultural pressure.

And if you take the cultural messaging and pressure, and you put it on top of somebody who's going, "We're so far behind. We're just trying to get through baby step three, and my kid's going to go to college in two years." I know what that can feel like. You talk a lot about the emotions behind money, and I wanted to call it out. I want to give you the last word on that. I want people to think about there are more ways for your kids to get the training that they need

more than ways than ever, and more cheap. That's all I want to say. I want to throw it out there. >> I'm going to tell you right now, setting expectations early and often, my parents told me from a young age, "You don't have a college fund.

You better be good at sports. You better be good at grades." When you set expectations like that early and often, that is more important than a college fund because then you go, "Okay, I got to get scholarships. I got to have a good a better GPA.

I got to choose a school that is within the right price range [music] to actually make this work cuz we're not doing student loans." Expectations trumps a college fund any day of [music] the week.

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>> [music]

[music] >> All right, Caitlin is up next in Shreveport, Louisiana. Caitlin, how can we help?

I am looking for the best way to consolidate my debt and to raise my credit score so in the future I can buy a new vehicle and a new house.

Okay. Now, how familiar with our show are you? Are you new to us?

Um only in the last year and looking at

baby steps. I've completed a couple, but

out of order. Okay, tell us give us the update.

So, I already have over a thousand dollars in savings. I'm actually edging towards 10,000. That's just because my dad raised me to always save money and make sure you always have at least six months worth of your bills to be covered. Okay.

And then I also have a 15% that I put back

monthly into retirement. Okay. Is that through a 401k?

Um 401k and an IRA. Okay.

Anything else?

That's pretty much it. And And what about the debt? Cuz you mentioned consolidating your debt.

Um yes. So, whenever I turned 18 and I

went to college, I found out that my birth mom had used my information on a house loan, a vehicle loan, and two credit cards. >> Oh, lordy. So, I have the two credit cards that are on my collections, which is really the main thing that has affected my credit the most.

>> Not the mortgage?

No, because thankfully I found out after

having the conversation with my dad that my dad ended up paying for the house and somehow my name was just attached to it for the first three-ish years of my life. Like I still get unclaimed property tax from the state of Louisiana for that house. But it's nowhere on your report anymore?

No, not at all. And the car?

Not at all. Okay, so it's just these credit cards.

How much is How much is it?

It's right at 1,500 and then my total

debt is only 3,000 because the other 1,500 is medical debt, but I've paid off

the other 80% of my medical debt just because of my health issues. How much was it to begin with? >> well as far as paying off my debt. So it was It was $8,000 to begin with?

The medical debt? >> to like 10 to 12. Here's what I don't

understand. How is it that you're being held liable if it's been proven that your birth mother used your name to fraudulently take out credit card debt?

That's what I don't understand either.

Have you talked to the credit Well, first of all, have you proven this? Is there some type of legal judgment and ruling that that it's been acknowledged by somebody in authority that your birth mother did this?

No, I just got her to admit to it.

Did you get it in Did you get it recorded?

No. Mhm. Okay.

>> don't have much to do with her anymore

>> Sure. Oh, well, gee whiz. I mean, my gosh, I I totally understand. All I'm trying to do is to see if there's a way out for you not to have to pay a nickel of the $1,500 given that you didn't even

And that's how I actually got the house and stuff like that off of my credit which it still affected my credit from

there, but I'm edging up to like 580 compared to the 330 that I started off with.

>> Okay, so let's let's take a time out and talk about that for a minute because I know that you're familiar with Ramsey, um but I think there's a a key point of this that you're missing and I want to talk about that. So, over here we don't really care about credit scores.

And the reason that we don't care about credit scores is because credit scores are just a measurement of how you handle and deal with debt. And since we are anti-debt, there's no use for a credit score. Cuz if you think about it, Caitlin, credit scores, they measure how much debt you have, how frequently you use your debt, what percentage of your debt you use, how long your debt's been around, uh what is the mix of debts that you have, right? It's just a It's just a a measurement of debt.

And so over here, the whole point is, "Hey, let's get rid of debt because the borrower is slave to the lender.

then what's going to happen and if you decide, "Hey, I'm just not going to borrow money," your credit score is going to disappear. It takes about 6 to 12 months for a credit score to completely disappear. If you look it up, it'll either be zero or it'll be indeterminable. That's what takes place.

And when that happens, it's not a bad thing. It's actually a very positive thing. But most people will come back and say, "Well, wait a second. What does that mean, Ken, if I want to get an apartment?

It means the same thing. So if you go out to buy a house, the only thing that's different is the method in which they approve you for the mortgage.

Instead of doing um normal underwriting, they would do what's called manual underwriting.

That's the only difference.

And so that's the number one thing that I want you to take away from this conversation is you don't have to spend your time, effort, and energy chasing a

credit score because all that's going to do is land you in more debt. And I can tell you've got a good head on your shoulders. Your dad taught you how to be a saver. I can tell you're not a person who goes out and takes out a lot of debt. Your mom screwed you over royally.

That's messed up. But, I think you have a good head on your shoulders, and I think you understand this.

And that's Yeah, I I agree. This is the only thing from where I'm from, obviously, is like everybody's always preached like you can't do anything without a credit score. >> They're wrong. You can't do anything without a credit score. Yeah, but what if what if like you were hanging out in a crowd that said it's like everybody around you said it's totally okay to eat Tide Pods, would you do it?

>> [laughter] >> No. You see my point?

>> Absolutely not. I know this is an extreme example, but you can't say, "Well, everybody around me." Now, here's the deal. We understand that, and that's why Jade just walked you through very meticulously why we don't think a credit score matters. So, now you have to go, "Okay." And I understand your action.

You're kind of like, "Okay, that's all well and good, but everyone in my life is going to go, 'You need to do that.'" So, let's talk about the next step, Jade, which is how she saves up for a car. >> I do want to do that, but I want to take that a step further because I want you to go home and chew on this. The reason that you're like, "Well, all my friends are eating the Tide Pods." The reason is because [laughter] that's what's being advertised because there's money on the other side of that. Think about that.

It makes sense. Companies want you to take out debt.

There's no money on the other on the other side of a zero credit score. There is no financial institution that benefits from you having a zero credit score. Think about that. Therefore, there's not going to be any commercials about it, boo. It's not going to be out there.

But, it doesn't mean it's not real. Ken and I have nothing to gain from this.

So, we're sitting here telling you I Let me tell you, until I bought my house, I went years without a credit score. And then when it was time to buy the house, we did manual underwriting. Now, I have a mortgage, so I have a credit score.

But, think through that. And anybody listening, I want you to think about that. Get Banks are attached to the end of this. Banks want you to borrow money.

Banks want to be able to Do you see what I'm saying? So, think through that because wherever there's a paper trail, that's where you figure out the origins of something. Caitlin, would you like to pay cash for a car? If you had the money saved up, how would that feel?

Amazing. And that's actually the way that I was always raised because my dad never even had a credit score up until I was over the age of 20, and I'm now 27.

>> Right. So, this is possible. So, now the question becomes not how do I get my credit score in a place where I can buy a car? Well, if you're not going to finance the car, the credit score doesn't matter. Last car The car I'm driving right now, I bought it from a local dealer. Cash only.

>> And I walked in literally with cash.

And guess what they never asked me for.

>> my dad did with my car. They never said to me, "Well, Mr. Coleman, what is your credit score?" Because the minute I said I'm paying cash and I have it in a little briefcase here and I got an envelope and I'm literally what I'm offering you with this car is this amount of money. Uh the guy, first of all, was stunned.

And it took him a second to make sure he heard [laughter] me correctly. And then he went, "All right, sir." >> Yes. There was no credit score conversation. It's fast.

So, Caitlin, I'm just We're trying to reset your um True north. Yeah, you know what I'm thinking? It's like we're pulling you out of the matrix.

You know? Yes. The matrix says I got to plug in to debt to be able to live.

We're saying you don't. And so, what do you want? A $12,000 car? $14,000 car?

Would an $8,000 car do what it needs to do for you right now? Boom, we set a target, we save up the money, and we go do it. Same thing with a house. What's the right down payment? And by the way, when you do that, you're setting yourself up to be wealthy for life.

Think about it. What would it mean if you invested [music] that car payment.

>> [music]

[music]

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit [music] Union Studio.

I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw is alongside.

We're really happy to have you with us here. We're here to help you, help you win with your money, in your work, and in your relationships.

The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225.

We start out with Joel, who joins us in Wichita, Kansas. Joel, how can we help?

Hi. How are you guys today?

>> We're doing well. How are you?

Um I've been better. Oh. What's going on today? Okay, so I am in baby step three. I

thought I was finished, but I think I'm going to be restarting.

Um my house flooded. Well, so I have a crawl space

and my main water line burst under my

house. Oh. And it's cost

um so far I'm at over $40,000 worth of damage. >> Oh, man.

Yeah, and I have 12,000 in my emergency fund, but not enough to cover all of

these damages. And this is >> Um I don't I don't have insurance.

Well, I do, but they're trying they're arguing on whether or not they're going to pay cuz my house is old, so the pipes are old.

So, um I'm just trying to figure out if

insurance doesn't cover, what is your guys' advice on where to go next for all

of these bills? Has the work already been done?

Um some of it, yeah, had to be done immediately.

Um the plumbing had to be done. The restoration company had to come and start getting the water out, the humidity out, dry it out to try to get it, you know, to prevent it from getting ruining the subfloor and the beams and all of that good stuff.

What is the specific communication been with your homeowner's insurance um on this? I mean, I'm sure someone's giving you the runaround on the phone, but have they have they been able to cite to you um some type of specific line in the homeowner's policy that

says they don't have to pay? I'm wondering if they're just trying to bully you and manipulate you versus have

they proven to you that they don't have to pay.

Well, so the most recent communication has been that they want to talk they don't want to talk with me anymore. They want to talk to the plumber.

And so I let him know and he was going to do his best, but the pipes are old so

and I I I haven't I mean my house is almost 100 years old so >> Yeah, they're going to want to know if this was some a problem that has been escalating over time that has never been dealt with or if it really was a sudden kind of like catastrophic event. Whether or whether this was a slow leak over time.

Yeah, and according I went to like my local where the my I pay my water bill our local city place and it definitely was a catastrophic event. So I am going to fight it. >> Yeah. But while I'm fighting it if I

have like when these bills come up cuz I already had the HVAC issues >> Uh-huh.

they're the bill the the estimate for

the issues is 30,000.

Because the return air vent is under my house and it was full of water, the HVAC

system outside was full of water and stuff is now short-circuiting and So >> everything is still wet in there. I don't It's just been a mess. Read it back to me. >> another guy. So the actual water damage from in the interior like once they dry it out obviously there's cosmetic things that you're going to want to fix like flooring and walls and all that stuff drywall. But then there's the actual technical damage to the HVAC. That's 30,000. How much is the to fix the inside of the house minus the HVAC?

Nothing. There's no damage in the house.

Oh. Um it's all under it's all under and

the >> your living space?

No, because I caught it fast enough.

>> Good for you. Okay. I you know I I don't know what Jay's going to say about this, but I come at this so I'm going to go what I think is probably extreme and then I I want your take.

Um Joelle, if I'm in your shoes, um I've I'm getting an affidavit, you know, a a statement from the local water company where they say this was a catastrophic event. Uh I'm getting that like instantly. Um I

am calling the plumber and all these other people saying, "I need you guys

to go on the record here uh as to how you see this thing going down and what was going on." And I I appreciate the fact that the insurance company wants to talk to your plumber, and I think that's great, but you never lose sight of it. In fact, when the plumber calls, the plumber has you on the line.

Yeah. Okay. Because I want that insurance company to know that Joelle is not going into the night quietly.

Because Joelle's been paying her premiums on time.

Mhm. Because you said she had to to be insured. And now when she has an actual catastrophic event, you jerks are trying

to manipulate her. So, they need to know

that Joelle's not going quietly.

And they need to know that you're you that you would be happy to go to counsel and get counsel.

And you need to say enough things and ask for enough things where they realize Joelle is taking care of business.

What provision, show me the line in my policy that you are citing when you're questioning whether or not you guys are supposed to pay for this after I pay my deductible? And I I just would be hyper vigilant.

Because once they realize that Joelle is willing to go all the way on principle

because she's not going to be messed with, I think it changes things. But I I'm going to stop there cuz I do value Jade's wisdom on this. That's what I would do. I Yes, I'm with Ken. I would 100% fight this, but I'm here to help you deal with worst case scenarios. So, I want to talk about what is your income right now and what's what's your monthly margin look like?

Um so, like my yearly income is that what you want to Uh tell me what you make a month.

Uh probably 5,000. Okay. And of that

5,000, you told me you have 12,000 saved. How much margin do you have every single month?

Um I would say two. Okay. So, what my

goal would be, let's pretend you're on the hook for some if not all of this money. And so, you're looking on man, I got to shell out $30,000. You've got 12, so we got to come up with another 17 or 18,000 very quickly. So, my first thing that I would do is I'd be finding I'd be looking for ways that I can cut back to where I can start to save up as much money as possible.

I'm looking around, is there anything I can offload to pick up a you know, however much money is possible. Maybe it's $2,000, maybe it's $800, right? So, that's kind of just a practical way of looking. But what I'm also going to do is I'm going to get an HVAC guy out there and I'm going to tell him the situation.

And I'm going to say, "Tell me, put yourself in my shoes. I don't have $30,000. How can we phase this thing so that we're doing this in small chunks so I can pay you?

Is there a way that we can do when we're setting up the return air, can we do priority zones first? Like, you know, the master bedroom, that one's first and then maybe the kitchen. And is there a way that we can phase this thing out so I can pay and so that we can do things that are most important first, you know?

Um and that's what I'd be asking cuz everything is happens in phases. That's right. That's right. And listen, these these contractors that you're working with, they know your situation.

And they've they've seen it a million times, I'm sure. >> adding to Jade's worst-case scenario, worst-case scenario, you look at them and you go, "Look, I I don't do debt.

Yeah. >> So, I'm not going to put this on a credit card, but if you can work out a a cash payment plan, I will do installments." And you treat this like you've had to go back into the baby steps. And that's what [music] you do. Yep.

But but you're not actually borrowing, you're just going to go, "Guys, I'm going to pay this, but I'm going to pay you as I can and I'm going to take that 2,000 in margin or where I can take and I'm going to just I'm going to pay you guys off." And that way you sleep at night. [music] And that's what I want you to hear is that you don't need to go into debt to pay this stuff off. >> [music] >> You just don't. >> Okay.

All right? That was I That was what I was worried about. No, you're okay. >> and that's your choice.

But fight. Fight fight fight deductible only is our goal here.

[music]

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>> [music] >> All right, let's go to Beth in Rochester, New York. Beth, how can we help today?

Good morning or good afternoon. We have been following the Dave Ramsey plan my husband and I for [music] about a year now. We have baby steps number one and partial of number three laid out.

We were about $40,000 in debt not including our remainder of our $200,000 mortgage and so we're probably sitting at around $21,000 in a credit card debt

that's mostly been occurred for myself covering weddings, baby showers and and other things like that. Um I have about $400,000 sitting in my 401k and I wanted

some advice on whether it makes sense to pull out a loan out of there to pay back myself versus paying these high interest I think the credit card has like a 28%

interest fee on it just to get just to get that out of the way to plug away at the remaining bill, you know, getting out of debt.

Well, didn't I hear you say that you had partial of baby step three completed and I'll put that in quotes? >> Yeah. So, how much money is there?

So, we're down to one vehicle now and we have about $6,000 in there.

The tricky part of this conversation is my husband doesn't agree with credit cards at all and we have two children where I've kind of supported again helping support weddings and baby showers with it across the past two years and I've successfully paid off 20,000 of it alone and I probably could be out of debt with the other 20,000 by October of this year.

We roughly make about 230 a year combined.

But he's not willing to contribute to the debt because he didn't create that portion.

Why doesn't he like credit cards? Why doesn't Why is he against them?

For the situation we're in now of, you know, uh it's it's it's an easy it's an easy fix to pay for something that you don't think you that to pay something up front and then worry not worry about how to pay for it later. Sure.

Okay. Um I want to There's there's many ways that this can be attacked and there's many things that I'm hearing going on. I think that I'm going to start

with the 401k and I'm going to work my way backwards. So, I would not borrow this money from the 401k.

Uh the reason for that is you're just putting yourself at risk. Obviously, if you borrow this money from your 401k, now it's attached to your work. So, if you choose to leave leave your job at any point, that money is going to become due immediately and you'll have a a calendar year in most cases to pay that money back. And if for some reason you're not able to pay that money back, then it becomes viewed as an early distribution and so you're taxed on it at your income tax level, but then you're also paying a 10% penalty.

And it's just not worth it to unplug >> [laughter] >> your retirement for this purpose. So, that that is the reason why that's off the table. So, let's check that off the list. Ken, >> Okay.

Mhm. I want you to lean in on this because what I'm hearing, Beth, is if my if my spouse says something that they disagree with and they they they're saying, "Hey, I really don't want to do this. I really don't feel good about this." My first initial point is not, "Okay, then I'll just go over here and do it on the side anyway." >> Correct. Yeah, I I I felt the same thing.

Beth, this is not a win. This is not a win financially, right? It's not a good move. Yeah.

Uh for all the reasons Jade's laid out, but it's really a bad move relationally.

And the truth of the matter is we agree with him. Right? And so >> Yes. But what we want here is not about boo Beth, yay hubs, right? That's not what this is. It's this is a relationship issue that you need to solve now. It hasn't been solved up to this point and now you're tempted because you don't have the same principle that he has. He's not tempted.

In fact, my guess is is your husband's got an an alternate plan. Is that true or false?

Yes. What's his plan?

Uh well, ultimately here uh that uh we're going to scale back even further than where we are um and that I

you know, whether I find an additional job or whatever whatever I do uh and I turn all all credit cards over to him, which I have. Mhm. Um I have until the end of the year cuz we make a decent salary You make it out of this fine.

Wait, you No, not decent. You make $230,000.

The median is like 80. So, you're you're doing extremely well. >> Yeah. Yeah, so I I Jade's right. This you need to trust your husband on this. He's actually got your best interest, your you collectively you.

The two of you. He's got your best interest at mind. He's right.

Don't fall prey to this kind of thinking. This is a mindset and you just got to go, all right. You know what? I'm not where I need to be.

I'm going to trust Jade and Ken. I called him today and I'm really going to trust my husband. >> Yes. And uh you need to get on the same page with him on these money principles and it's going to be a much better journey Yeah.

>> going forward and you're not going to get into messes. So, as simple as I can say it, just run his plan out. You guys can solve this. You got the income to be able to solve this.

You don't need to take out a 401k loan. You don't need credit cards. You just don't. And and I think that's >> exactly what he said.

He's right. I hate to keep telling you that he's right, but he's right. >> Well, and and let's put this into real numbers because if you tell me, oh my gosh, we have, you know, $15,000 a month, $14,000 a month at our disposal, now my next question comes, okay, what's happening to that money?

Because that is most people I I can guarantee you this and I'll try to shut it down, but the folks in the comments right now are like, "What's going on? If I made that much money and yep, yep, yep." Now, I'm not saying listen to the haters cuz that's all they're doing is sipping haterade. But, what I am saying is that is a reasonable amount of money to work with. That Don't get me wrong, nobody should be using credit cards, but especially you shouldn't be using credit cards because you've got this wonderful income.

>> [laughter] >> does. Actually, I have it. You have it, which is the oddest part. Yeah.

So, you might just want to look through it, Beth, and there's probably some things that can be tightened up. There might be some some uh slush fund that

needs to be uh given a a clearer definition of what really are we using this money for? Because, you know, $21,000 of credit card debt, it's a lot, uh but I just think in the grand scheme of your income, those weddings, those baby showers, those one-off things that you were talking about, there's absolutely no reason that that should not be a line item in the budget, you know? You know, your your firstborn's baby shower, put it on the budget. What are What are you going to spend $300?

Uh you know, we're we're funding this or we're funding that. >> I think Jade's on to something, Beth.

what with the income that you have and your husband's aversion to credit card debt, what is the thing that you're afraid of that is making you use the credit card for these purchases as opposed to cash flowing?

I think transparency, right? Letting him know how much I'm actually providing to our grown children. Got it. Is is

probably one of the biggest things. Um >> Because he's a bit of a tightwad.

Yes. >> Yeah, okay. >> he like, you know, he does he doesn't believe in vacations.

Um you know, he's content if, you know, we we don't eat out. Again, we we make this income, we're sharing one vehicle.

And and these are things where he's comfortable with because he wants to, you know, he wants to be so tight.

>> Yes. Got it. >> With our >> income and and and and the career I have in sales, my all all my coworkers are traveling the world and I'm like, well, I think I deserve >> On that on that front, I think you're right. I think both of you There's a give and take here, Ken. So, if I'm understanding you, Beth, thank you for being so honest cuz you're an awesome person. Um is this a bit of like a rebel rebel

kind of I'm going to be a rebel and show you. I'm going to put on a credit card so that you could get a dose of reality?

Squeaky. >> Well, since we're being transparent, I'm I'm the primary breadwinner, so um 140

of that is my income. So, part of me feels like I work really hard. I should have a say in what I'm doing with this money. But then I And again, I invest He

um his job is a little bit different, so he was like the game with a 401K.

Um and I've been investing in mine since uh I'm only 49, so >> a classic classic nerd squeaky behavior.

Yeah, but this is actually a little bit more than this. You're so tired of him squeaking around the house cuz he's so tight. You're just like, this is a little bit of a middle finger, isn't it? Mhm. It It kind of is.

>> I know it is. I just wanted you to say it. >> you can't stop me. I'M GOING TO DO WHAT I WANT TO DO. >> And Beth >> [laughter] >> And Beth, you are such an awesome sport, and I hope you feel that there's no judgment coming from me.

But I'm glad you >> No, no. I And I don't want to say that to him, right? No, but you said it to me, which is great.

But this is like a therapy session. You said it to me, no judgment coming from me or Jay. But I wanted you to admit it is the middle finger because I think you're going to have to resolve that.

You got to go, okay, that shouldn't be my response. We agree, he needs to loosen Yes, yes, he does. Yes, he does.

But you can solve this.

You don't need the debt. You don't need the middle finger part of it, either.

You guys, though, need to get >> loan. No 401K loan. You're going to hate yourself for that, trust me. What you need to do is have a candlelight dinner with Squeaky. And let's get on the same page finally in our marriage, and let's tell each other how we really feel. All right?

You're awesome. >> so much. I appreciate your advice. >> Yeah, Beth, you're great.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right. [music] Hey, folks.

When it comes to EveryDollar, the thing that we're telling you about all the time, >> [music] >> Um we love getting real stories because this is no longer a budgeting app, right? This has got the coaching involved in it. It's got the entire baby step program baked into it. And we love real feedback from people that are using it.

Here's a fan code. Every dollar is excellent. It really helped me to get my personal finances in order. Now that I'm married, my wife and I use it together out of our joint checking account.

It really helps us maintain a common vision and a set of goals. And Jade, we love that because these are real people uh giving us feedback on how they're actually using it. Uh and we'd love for you to kick the tires and you can do that for free today uh in the App Store or Google Play.

entire Ramsey plan, the baby steps. Even for those of you who have just barely heard that phrase, you maybe listen for or watching for just a small amount of time, >> [snorts] >> it it is the plan and it's baked in there and you've got the coaching access to, not just the budget functionality.

Jade, I know you're the queen of Everydollar. Anything you want to add to that? >> I I when you say kick the tires, that was a the best thing you could have said. Give it a try. >> Give it a try. Nothing to be lost. Let's go to Hope now in Washington, D.C. Hope, how can we help?

Hi. Um thanks guys so much for having me on your show. Sure. What's going on today?

Um so, I just want to get you guys' opinion on what to do. Um I'm I'm a stay-at-home mom. I'm just like at a little bit of a loss for path to home ownership. Um so, I'm like, do I do I need to go back to work? I mean, do I you know, I don't know. my eyes on the 15-year and the 30-year loan, do a 30. I mean, what I mean, what in the world do I do?

Um our our rent right now is 43% of our

income. We have no debt. I mean, what are we saving that for? Um we're we're doing pretty solid. We've got we've got the good emergency fund. Everything's solid there. We're not like necessarily um like paycheck to paycheck. Um we do have $250 a month we put towards

our savings. And every time I like run the calculator, I'm like, this is going to take 15 years to get a house.

What's the income? Sorry. Sorry, Ken.

>> You know, that's what I was asking. Go ahead.

Yeah, so my husband makes 90.

He's hoping to make 120, 130 in the next, you

know, few months or so.

But right now he's at 90. What would have to happen for him to jump up to 120, 130?

Get a different job. Is he looking?

He's working on, yeah. Okay. Have you started running the numbers on what the new take home would be if he were to get to that range?

Yeah. And this is like this is the scary part. This is why I I'm like, oh my gosh, you got to talk to you guys.

So I ran this through ChatGPT. I know that's like not the right way to do this, but you know, the median the median house in our area for like starter home is $550,000.

Like that's insane.

And just ChatGPT, I like was like, use the use the Ramsey do the reverse math. I tell me what we need. And like basically it was like came back with like we need to make at least $250,000 to be in that

under 25% of our of our income ratio at a 15-year

mortgage, you know, and and I just 20%

down. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this is going to take forever. I get it. So what we need to do is reframe.

Right? Okay. >> So the question becomes, what is realistic uh as it relates to drive time. You know, and I I I don't know if you're actually in DC or in your Northern Virginia or Maryland, but I'm a Virginian and I can tell you Yeah, Northern Virginia is like in order to go to hell, you have to go through Northern Virginia, you know, on on the interstate, you know. So but I think you start there. What is realistic? Can we change the area that where where we live or would that just make life even worse?

I I it's a it's a good question. I mean, we've we've really talked about it. The problem is is um we have a we have Well, not the problem, I guess, but the blessing here is is that we have a really really really great church community. I mean, this is like I've never had such a great community. And so, it would be so >> Okay, I get it. So, I'm going to rapid response to you cuz I Jade's going to get involved here, but I'm going to do some rapid response to see where we are.

Okay, cuz then that frames the plan. All right? I bet you there's something that's a little bit smaller than you would ideally like to have that is less than 500,000, but would still be a house or some type of thing we own. True or false?

Yeah, absolutely. >> What's that number? What are those now? What's the range? Are we now 350? Well, yeah, I mean, so

350 is what I was trying to do, but I'm I'm not kidding. I literally I I told that to my realtor. I said we wanted to follow the Daveran plan. I was like, we want to find a 350 house. >> Did you say house or did you say would we'd be willing to do a townhouse or even a larger apart like a larger condo?

A larger condo would be good, but you know, with the HOAs and everything, our realtor literally laughed at us and then fired us. Okay, but hold on a second. I appreciate the response, but I mean, you can go on these real estate sites yourself and look for stuff.

>> Absolutely. So, my point is we've got to see what is possible. And right now, a $500,000 house is going to take a while

for you. That's the real real.

>> Yeah. Okay, but so now we need to adjust.

Okay? So, now it's not like I'd love to climb this mountain over here. Let's say I came home and I told my wife Stacy, I've got bitten by the mountain climbing bug. First of all, she would take me to the doctor. That's never going to happen. >> [laughter] >> But let's say it did for a moment, okay?

And she goes, "Okay, what are we talking about?" And I said, "Mount Everest.

That's the one I'm going for first." And she goes, "Okay, I need to know more." And I went down the rabbit hole of what it would take to climb Mount Everest. And I would find out that it would be the emotional equivalent of what you felt when you looked at a $500,000 house. I'm just keeping it real for people out there.

All right. At which point wouldn't you tell me, "Hope, maybe I should start with maybe you go to Hawaii and hike Diamond Head." >> You quietly burst their bubble.

>> [laughter] >> But don't you wouldn't you say to me, "Hope, Ken, you should probably change your expectations cuz cuz cuz Mount Everest is probably a ways down the road, but you could still get the same feeling and the same accomplishment and all the other things, but maybe we should work up to that." Would you say that to me, Hope, if you were talking to me? Probably. All right. So, I think that's what I'm trying to get at here.

Um what we got to do is is we got to crawl before we walk.

And so, we hate rent, but you know, husband's going to increase income and I heard you say this at the start of the call, yes, you should go to work. Agree.

Because if you can bring in 50, 60, and I'm making that up out of thin air, but that changes the game.

Now all of a sudden >> the the trade-off, right? Is is that we don't have family in the area.

So, there's no one that can watch our son. So, we'd have to go get I'd have to trade off to go do >> Not true.

Can I give you a a solution?

>> Yeah. You have an awesome church community. That's what you said.

Yeah. I'll bet you in a short amount of time with that awesome church community, we could find a grandmother who's bored out of her skull and she wants to get away from her husband for a 6, 7 hours a day and she would love to watch your son and do a little bit of laundry, maybe even some meal prep. And and just before you think I'm crazy, Hope, this is what we did when Stacy was working full-time and we had three kids.

got home. She helped with the homework.

She did some light laundry.

And she was thrilled. And yes, and she was a fraction of the cost of daycare.

Mhm. How old are your kids and how many are there? Just the one.

I just have I just the one and he's 8 months and then I want to have, you know, lots of kids and I'm hoping to homeschool at some point. >> Ken's idea because here's the thing, even if you weren't looking to buy today, if you just called and said, "Hey, my rent's 43% of my income." I'd go, "Oh, you got to go back to work." Because it's going to make it impossible to your point with the $250 margin per month. It's going to make it hard to really do anything uh long-term that you want to save up for that's going to cost any amount of money, right?

Now, let's look at it like just pragmatically here.

Yeah. Okay, if you're investing 15% that's got to be close to $1,100 a month that you're putting aside, am I right or wrong?

Um we are working towards that. So, I think we're at about 7% of his income right now is investing in um in retirement. >> Okay, you guys are young. Um we've Right. >> set aside for a house right now.

>> Okay, so what I would do, I would also for the short term, I would either mix that and say, you know, I we're only going to put, you know, 4% and so that we can put more towards this down payment or I would completely cut it off. I'd cut that off for up to 2 to 3 years while you save for this down payment, but I'm completely with Ken.

You need to be working. I'd temporarily pause retirement so that you can start saving up for this house and I would change my expectations. It took Ken, it took Sam and I 10 years to be able to >> save up for a house and let me tell you something, to this day, I never go, "Oh, the one regret in life is that I had bought my house 8 years earlier." I've never said it and you'll never hear me say it because it's simply not true.

>> And now they got a great house.

>> [music]

>> Our Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by whyrefi.com. Defaulted private student loans can leave you feeling stuck and overwhelmed, but whyrefi.com helps you explore refinancing options with a low fixed rate and a payment based on what you can actually afford. Visit whyrefi.com/ramsey.

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It may not be available in all states.

>> Okay, today's question comes from Vanessa in North Carolina. She says, "Hey, am I wrong for not helping my sister and her family financially? She's a stay-at-home mom with four kids and a husband that works whenever he feels like it, which isn't often. They blow what little money they get as soon as it hits their bank account. I own a home, I

have a paid-off car, and I have money saved in retirement. I have already shelled out over $5,000 to help them.

Their most recent need is $1,000 to pay

their electric bill because they are behind on paying it. Is it okay to say

no? Now, Ken, we just came from Denver, Colorado, where we had an amazing Ramsey Show Live event. And in the event, you have a a wonderful bit that you do where you bust out the powdered wig.

>> I do. And you >> Kelly, you should see that wig. We've done it. It's the giant wig. Think of the colonial judge or the British judge.

Just want to paint a picture for people.

>> He's got the gavel and and the the base for the gavel. >> And I rule, and then I hand it to you and and whoever else is with me that time. So, if you're driving, if you're on a walk, if you're in the kitchen and this is on YouTube, if you got it in your AirPods, I want you to imagine Ken Coleman in his beautiful shoulder-length powdered George Washington wig.

>> And Ken, what would I say?

>> I'm going to ask you, is it okay for her

to say no to her sister? Yes, it is

okay. Not only is it okay, it is what you should do. >> Absolutely. >> This problem is not yours, number one.

Number two, this is not a problem that you or anyone else can solve.

So, number three >> Absolutely. Then you need to just move on. And it's the popular refrain from maybe the most popular Disney movie of all time, let it go. >> Let it go. >> There it is, folks.

>> And here's the thing, you've already shelled out 5,000, so they think that this is a dispensary that they can keep going back to for more. And that was that was your bad. And it's okay for you to write that wrong and go over to them and say, you know what? I understand why you're coming to me for this money.

I've given you money in the past. That was actually my mistake, and I've decided that I'm not able to contribute any more. And that's that. Yeah.

Best of luck to you. Yeah, it's tough.

Yeah. It's very easy for us to say because we have taken so many calls on the other side of this where this has gone on and on and on and on and on. Yeah, and this creates, by the way, so you think if you don't help out sis >> that it's going to ruin the relationship. And what I'm telling you is if you keep helping out sis, it will ruin the relationship.

>> So, the relationship is going to be ruined one way or the other, so let's go ahead and save ourselves a little bit of money. Now, if you really want to be cold-hearted, that's about as cold-hearted as it gets. But since you got me in the stuffy, you know, judge's robe [laughter] and the wig and the gavel, I have no emotion

emotions on this cuz we have just Am I right? We have been on the other side of this when this thing doesn't work.

>> Absolutely. And here's the thing, like I said this is all at the hand of their choices. If you had called me up and said, "Uh the the kid somebody ended up in the hospital or da da da da da da something that was completely out of their control." Yes, my heart softens immediately, especially if you have the money to spare, especially if they have proven to be people who are responsible, right? There are parameters that I think it's okay to step in and give a a helping hand, uh but this is not that scenario.

It is not even close, by the way. >> No. And I I just, Jade, have zero sympathy. I mean zero.

And I don't mind being called out on this, but I'm just being real.

They just kind of when he wants to. >> messed up. As a man, that's not a man.

I'm sorry. >> it and you work when you want to, I go, "Attaboy." Everybody wants to be on that team. But this is very different. We can't even pay the electric bill because homeboy won't get out of the Lazy Boy and go work. I have zero sympathy. I'm never going to help somebody who won't help themselves. >> with that. I agree with that. I'll take you back to the founding of our country.

I'm feeling very, very frisky on this one, all right? So here's the deal.

John Smith, this is a fact. This isn't just in your fourth grade history book.

Okay? The founding of Jamestown.

If you didn't work in Jamestown, they didn't give you rations. No work, no eat. John Smith had it right. I'm going to borrow it from John.

And so, you know, You don't work. >> What do the kids say you ate? You just ate and left no crumbs or something? Is that a thing?

Kids >> That That's what you just did. You ate and left no crumbs. >> That's why I thought I'd try to >> you said it right. You put him in his place.

Yeah, but it's never a good idea to pat yourself on the back with a comment. But I was just really really >> made a pun out of it, which is even better. Good job, Ken. >> Don't work, you don't eat.

It worked in Jamestown. In Jamestown, it'll work in your house. Chris in Austin, Texas is where we're going next.

Hey, so I've got a truck right now. It's pretty sweet truck, love it, had it for a few years, but I took out a loan for it, and now I'm on baby step two right now. And I'm still upside down on it. So, my question is, do I sell my truck and pay the stupid tax, or do I continue to pay it down and refinance it?

>> Mhm. Interesting. Is this your only debt?

I As of right now, there's about 5,000

on top of it from credit cards and personal loans that I took throughout the years trying to pay this debt down. It initially started uh at about 22, and then I took a consolidation loan and got it all the way up to 35, almost

$40,000 because I was dumb and racked up

those credit cards again.

But, now I paid it down to 2,000 left on the credit cards and 3,000 left on the personal loan, and that was over the last year when I started listening to you guys. >> Got it. Okay. Okay. Got it. Okay, so and tell me about the truck. What do you owe on it, and what's it worth?

So, I owe 46, and it's worth about 30. Oh, you're telling me. >> Oh, man. Okay.

What's your income?

So, I make about 96 total.

Okay. Um So, the good news is, you know, you paid 46 for the the the truck. You make 96.

You're kind of like right there at the halfway point. We always say you shouldn't have more than half your income invested in things with motors, things that are going down in value. You're right on the line. Uh if you wanted to, if you if you said, "Jade, I can have this thing paid off in 2 years.

I love the truck.

Oh, yeah. There's a good period after I got out of the Navy where I was just broke, so I agree with that. And I think that you might be in need of a fresh start financially.

And I think this could represent that. I think when you pay off the the last of this credit cards and the last of this personal loans, and when you clear out this truck, I think it gives you a fresh start. And that sounds really good, right?

Yeah. I think it does.

If I were in your shoes today, not for mathematical reasons so much as as a principled reason, I would sell this truck. And I would probably go down to a credit union. Honestly though, I don't care how you how you get the loan for this difference. I'd find I'd get a loan for the difference and maybe another 5,000 on top of it so that I can have a $20,000 debt instead of a $46,000 debt,

and I would clear out this truck and I drive like a $5,000 beater until you can clear out the remainder of that debt with your $96,000 income and

a few side hustles to boot. What do you think about that?

Well, I definitely have the capability of doing side hustles. So I I don't disagree with that at all.

My kind of guy. Listen.

>> Yeah. I agree. I can't add anything to it. I But you've already touched on it and I and I want to just acknowledge you and cheer for you. You've already acknowledged that you need to experience this pain. When you use the phrase the stupid tax, right? You get it. You're like, I I'm going to have to experience some pain to A get out of this and B remind myself never again. I've got scars in certain parts of my body.

One I've got on my hand I always refer to. I'm looking at it right now. I'm touching it. One of the dumbest things I ever did doing yard work. Cut my hand so badly had to go to the ER, stitches, everything. It was just a boneheaded. I was moving too fast. And I promise you Jade, from that day forward when I'm doing yard work, I am a lot slower, chilling out because that was a

very painful day. And I think Chris, this is beautiful. I think it's going to change your life if you do exactly what Jade does told you to do. Then what's going to happen is you're going to get out of it faster, but more importantly, you fully experience the pain cuz let's be honest, nobody wants to drive a $5,000 truck.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio alongside Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us today as we take your money calls. 888-825-5225

is the phone number. Let's go to Chris in Portland, Ohio. Chris, how can we help today?

Hi, I was wondering when is it appropriate to bring up finances or debt when dating.

Um, I'm divorced and getting back out

there and kind of just curious what the >> That's a good question and I got to tell you my favorite question of the day.

And the reason it's my favorite question of the day is I don't think there's a firm answer to this.

But I love that Jade's alongside of you, too, cuz this will be fun. Okay, I'm going to take the male perspective colored in my philosophy. >> Okay. All right? >> Go ahead. Um

I think as a male, if I'm dating

someone, when do I bring up money philosophy and money issues?

I think I bring it up

a couple of dates. So, we'll say two dates after I feel like that I want to pursue this lady. Like this is a this feels like I'm going to invest for the long haul because I think this is going to cash out. So, once I've determined that I think there's long-term potential, I'm talking marriage.

Then I think a couple dates later. So, there's no rhyme or reason other than I'm a feel guy. I'm all feel. So, I'm going, "Okay, I'm not going to do it right away, but maybe a couple dates later, maybe we're doing a longer date, maybe it's a we spend the day somewhere and it comes out in just natural conversation, not a you know, we've just finished the spaghetti and the tiramisu's on the way and I go, "All right, I'd like to talk about money." Like I don't want it to feel like we've shifted gears.

And I want it to feel real natural because this is a values conversation.

Now, that's what I mean by I'm trying to give the the male version with my philosophy swirled in. That's what I think. [laughter] So, that's that sounds I hope that sounds specific cuz it is to me.

But I don't know how long that is into the relationship, but I wouldn't bring up any kind of money thing until we know that we're interested in a long haul Yeah. I mean, I think part of it has I I love Ken's response. I And let me start there. So, I like what Ken said. I actually might start immediately, but not in the way that you think, not in a conversational way. I might you know, cuz money's touching everything, you know, it affects your daily habits. I might be very

uh intentional with some of my habits showing on the date. So, for instance,

if I, you know, >> Okay, this is great. Take Take me to first date. >> First date is um >> What are you going to show that's not You know, like let's say we go to the movies, right? And and he while he's doing the tickets, I I say, "You know, I'm going to head over here and get some some concessions, >> Okay.

right?" [laughter] And and I start As I'm coming back with the concessions, I'm folding the cash and putting it back in my Nice. So, it's like, oh And what is, by the way, what's the concession item you're getting? I'm getting the large popcorn uh because there's free refills and you can have the shareable buckets. >> So, you're going to do the um whether it's the right hand or left hand, you've got the bucket kind of cradled and you got the cash in your fingers that he can see.

Uh-huh.

>> I don't mind that. That is subtle.

>> hint, right? >> know if most dudes pick up on those kind of cuz we're idiots.

We don't [laughter] Guys can't find the mustard. I I've been married 20 years. I can't find the mustard in my refrigerator ever. So, I don't know if that works, but I like it.

>> In a conversation, we're talking. What are you going to say? So, what do you like to do? Da da da. And I throw in, uh you know, I love taking a vacation. I wasn't able to go with my girlfriends this year cuz it wasn't on the budget, but next year did it, right? I just throw in a little sprinkle it, a little seasoning hint. See, and tell Okay, let's continue to play this out. What are you looking for when you drop that?

At first, all I want him to do is if he's seeking to learn about me, he's picking that up. He's noticing that, right? Cuz on the first date, all you're doing is observing the other person's behavior. So, simultaneously, while you're dropping your hints, you're also observing, did he pay with the credit card?

Did he uh meant What are the little things he's mentioning? His truck, is it brand new? Because if he's driving a brand new truck, you can assume one of the two things, he's either loaded or he's broke. That's good.

That's a good That's a good call. >> picking up on these things and I agree with Ken.

would I sit down, you know, with my glasses over my nose and it's like, okay, now we have the money talk. It's like talking about kids on the first or second date. My gosh, you're going to scare the crap out of somebody that might be the one. Now, let's talk about if you have something to hide. Do you have something that is kind of like a bombshell or like, ooh.

I would do it No, no, I'm I feel like I'm um in a really good place uh and so

I don't want to get into a serious relationship with someone who like you said you know just took out a loan for a $40,000 new car cuz that's that's not that doesn't match my values and I don't want to Yeah.

So you're in great shape. You're just saying hey I want to start getting out there and dating or I am dating and I kind of want to figure out Yeah. Well I I I got to tell you I really really this will come as a big shock to the audience I will love my own advice here I I just >> [laughter] >> I think I think you get to pick you know the time frame I just wouldn't scare them off but I but I don't think you have to wait you know months to talk about it but I Mhm.

I like your combo I like how you came in on I I like Jade's like she feels like in a like a ninja over here. >> I'm a little detective. She's kind of like sneaking around little throwing star here little throwing star >> Yep. [laughter] Yeah.

So I don't know Chris that's our that's uh Now there is going to >> a bad track record with guys? Is that what this is about?

just getting back into it after you know being married for over 10 years and this is my first relationship since or

you know since college. Absolutely. So this this

is the whole dating thing is very very >> What was it like I have two young children. Yeah. two young children and so I want to Yeah. Your wise I'm curious What was the money What was the money situation like in your first marriage?

I mean it was joint and everything

um he he struggled to keep a job honestly

and I I'm nearly debt free now I have

you know basically $1,500 that I owe my parents on a car that I bought from them and that's all I have. >> Good for you. Um so that's a couple months and so uh Yeah, it I I'm hopeful for my future and

I want a partner who values the same thing. So >> Yeah, we are too. And I think you're going to find that. I think that you've got to like we said, you do your detective work, but you also hold open the chance for people to change.

>> Yes, I agree. You know, because and and it's not to say that you get into a relationship to change someone. I don't want you to hear that. But, what I do want you to hear is as you do start discussing these different philosophies on money, I love and Ken's the first to say this, I love the idea of asking questions and just listening.

Instead of you being the first to say, "Well, here's my views on debt. Blah blah blah blah blah." Right? Just ask questions and when the when when the time pops up, you know, maybe he does go to pay with his American Express and you say, "You know, we've been on a couple dinner dates. I noticed like you got that American Express, huh?" And just like bring it up and >> [music] >> ask him, "So, what's your philosophy on that?

you know? >> that. You know what? I just got one, Chris. This is kind of a fun one. You can use us.

Do the old "What kind of podcast do you listen to?" That's very normal now.

Let him go first, right? And by the way, this is a twofer on this one. You get two tests on this one. "Hey, what kind of podcast do you listen to?" And if he tells you and then he doesn't ask you what you listen to, what's going on? Narcissist, hello.

[laughter] But, if he does ask you, you tell him and you see how that goes.

>> [music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music] >> All right, let's go to Jessica who joins us now from Washington D.C. Jessica, how can we help? >> [music] >> Hi, um, I want to I have a question about, um, paying down my debts. My husband's not on board. And he wants to

make minimum payments and, um, I wanted to pay it off with my saved saved up money. Okay.

>> money saved? >> Jessica, if you don't mind, could you speak a little louder? I know this may be nerve-racking and all that, but I want to make sure we and the audience can hear you. So, uh, go ahead and answer Jay's question for her.

Uh, about I have about 45K.

You have $45,000 saved. And you want to

pay off the debt and the husband's like, "No, let's keep that in a chunk and just pay minimum payments." Am I understanding that?

Yeah, and, uh, he doesn't have access to that money because I wanted to keep it Do you have separate accounts?

>> We don't, but I contribute some of my

income and, um, to the common

accounts and then I have some some money that I'm just putting, hopefully. Where is the 45,000? Is it in a savings account?

Yeah. How much is your total debt?

Um I have around 13,000 uh plus 45, so that is about

uh 68

plus 15k from my mom.

So about 60 to 70. Uh sweetheart, I'm

you got to speak up, Jessica. I am struggling. I know our audience is as well. I'm sorry. It's okay. I and I know you're probably nervous. It's just that we want to help you. We just don't understand you. So, your total debt

is this you and your husband? The stuff is in both of your names. Is is it so or is it a mix?

Yeah. Uh it's between our our names. And that's the total 68,000? Is that what I heard?

Yes, and also 25k uh student loan from his side. So, 25k plus

the 68?

Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay.

And you so that's 83. I want to make sure we're completely on the same page. You've got $83,000 total to take care of all of your debt. Yours, his, everybody.

Correct?

Yes. And you have 45,000 in a savings account that he knows about or doesn't know about?

He knows I have a savings account, but he doesn't know the number.

Are you concerned about what will happen? What are you more concerned about? Uh him finding out that you have the 45 or you going to bat on this idea

of paying off the debt?

So, I I don't mind uh him having access

to it, but I just don't trust him when it comes to spending. So, I I feel like

if he got access to everything, we would make um bad financial decisions and we

don't have anything to save up. Okay, that's the biggest That is the biggest issue in the room right now. Um the debt is is a big deal, but the biggest issue in the room is if if you tell me, I don't trust my spouse to know about money cuz they're just going to spend it, that's the that's the thing I want to tackle first because if you can't tackle that, no plan in the world is going to help you pay off debt or save money or build wealth, right? Would you agree with that?

Yeah, I agree. Cuz you won't be able to work together. So, um put Ken and I in the room and tell us what would happen if tonight you sit down and you say, um there's something I want to share with you, but I'm just being 100% honest

with you. When I consider sharing it with you, I'm afraid because I don't know if you'll be able to handle it and it's brought up bigger issues in the trust that I have for you and the lack of trust that I have for you. And you start to kind of run this thing out.

What's his response going to be? Is he going to be able to have a conversation like an emotionally mature adult or is this going to turn into something crazy?

Um we both have nice conversations. I I've tried it multiple times, but the problem is when it comes to implementing the plans, we don't do anything about it.

>> I'm not talking about implementing the plan. I'm talking about what you said when you said, I don't trust him to know about this money.

Yeah. Would he go in and take it?

He wouldn't take it. He wouldn't He wouldn't force me to So, he's actually a nice guy. This isn't like >> Yeah. He's a good guy. So, this is actually good news.

Um this would have been far more complex if you were worried about anything other than just a normal conversation.

Uh do you do you handle the finances for for your entire household? Do you handle it?

Yeah. We So, I don't even think we're handling it the way it should be handled. We're just spending money and we don't know what goes in. I understand, but I'm saying who pays the bills?

We paid all of our joint accounts. Yeah, but who actually hit send on the payment? Who goes into the app, hit send on the payment?

Uh it's generally me as I have auto pay for most of the bills. And that's what I'm getting at. Here's where I'm going with this, Jessica, and I want Jade to to weigh in. Where I'm going with this, Jade, is if he is not a jerk, and it sounds like he's not, and he's not dishonest, that's good.

>> Mhm. And they've had pleasant conversations, just nothing's changing.

>> That's right. >> But she's letting her lead on the administrative part of the finances, and that's what I heard. >> Mhm. I still think they have a conversation, but I think if this dude is kind of like hands-off and and when she says, "Hey, I'd like to do this." cuz she's an awesome wife, >> Yeah.

and she's being transparent, and he's kind of like, "Uh that's not how I want to roll." But but he's not like fighting her on it. I think it's a meeting to go, "This is what I'm going to do.

Is that too strong? >> No, I don't. I I will be honest with you. I'll be straight up. What I What I'm hearing What I'm hearing is just some immaturity on his point.

Uh I don't think that like it's to Ken's point, I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he's a little immature when it comes to money. I think even the way you guys have the money set up where it's like there's a joint account, but we also have our personal accounts over here cuz he could have money to the side that you don't know anything about, right? And so I think the conversation needs to be in line with this.

I think we need more transparency because I think it's breeding mistrust, and I don't like that. I'm starting to feel it. I don't know if you're feeling it, too. Uh but I don't think that we can get on the same page with our numbers until we decide that we trust each other fully with our finances. I think that's that's topic number one. And then I think topic number two is you expressing how

holding onto debt makes you feel.

Because if we go straight to the numbers, I don't think it's going to get through because he's clearly not a numbers guy. But if you can get to the heart or the emotion of the matter, that might help it sink in. And then if you can seek to learn a little bit about why um where he stands on this. Like, why does the debt not bother you? Why have you distanced yourself from the money? It's cuz the more you know, that's power in the right? That's knowledge is power.

>> think that's wise, Jessica. It's great advice because here's what I think. I think you can influence him. I think so, too. >> to your page.

Cuz it doesn't sound in any way like this is something that can't be solved.

We've taken calls before where the husband is just like almost abusive on something, you know, verbally or certainly financially. And I think in this case, I love Jade's advice. I think you I think he just has one mindset on it. You got to start talking about it.

And I think you got to kind of own it.

>> tell me what the mindset is? He just doesn't want to give out money. He'd rather have it saved and then Well, but here's the problem. >> it's a comfort thing for him to have that money. Well, yes, but Jessica, here's what you have to help me understand.

Where $68,000 No, it's more than $68,000 >> 83. >> It's $83,000 of our so-called money has got to go out. We are completely underneath of it. And

I don't like the way it makes me feel.

And here's how this goes if we don't pay it off. Here's how this goes if we just pay minimum payments forever. I do think I think he has to be confronted with that.

And then all of a sudden he goes, "Oh." But I mean, you've got to lead him on this. Unfortunately, he's not leading, so you have to lead him. >> Mhm. And it is a math problem at the end of the day. Like I said, I don't think he's a numbers guy. But once you do tell him about this money you have saved because I think no matter what you do have to tell him that you have this money saved.

That then it is a math problem. You say, "Hey, you might you may think we have some, you know, some amount of money that we don't or some amount of debt, but the truth is we have $83,000 of debt. >> [music] >> And I've got 45,000 saved that you didn't know about. And even if we paid every dime toward that debt, we'd still owe 38,000.

[music] We're underwater and we're sinking and I'm concerned.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can." It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom, but you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budgeting app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music] >> All right, Jade. I know you care about insurance. Oh my gosh.

>> You know, we just had this big ice apocalypse or whatever you call it, ice apocalypse in the the national area.

>> I I remember.

I lost trees, a bunch of my neighbors lost trees, and we were all talking. Yeah. in the street looking at the carnage about insurance. That's just something that's recently been on my radar. >> Yep, that's right. >> We all get it. We want to be covered.

And for you, some of you are probably over covered. In other words, maybe we can find a couple hundred bucks uh that goes towards the baby steps.

Some of you are under covered and it could derail you for a season on the train to the baby steps, right?

Or through them. And so, we have the Ramsey Solutions uh coverage checkup. This is free and it just allows you to plug in some numbers, quickly gives you a nice report that tells you you're either over covered or under covered and gives you an action plan. You can get that at ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

That's ramseysolutions.com/checkup.

Let's go to Megan who joins us in Edmonton, Alberta. Megan, how can we help today?

Hi. Um I have a very odd question. Basically,

am I wrong for wanting to kick out a family member out of a house for my own benefit? I mean, I know how that sounds. >> [laughter] >> I mean, we need to know more.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What can you tell us?

>> Okay. I'm going to try and make this really streamlined. It's a very complicated situation. So, my dad died like 15 years ago and my mother recently passed away.

And she has a rental property, okay?

My cousins live in the rental property.

It's just It's just her and her husband.

And they were basically talking about how they were not going to stay there. They wanted to leave. And that was all fine with us

because the property is owned now after inheriting it. It's an owned now by me and my two sisters.

Okay. My two sisters don't want anything to do with the house. So, they want they want me to buy them out, which is fine because um our house currently, me and my husband, our house currently is too small for our our family. So, we were actually going to move into the rental property because it's bigger and can accommodate us. Okay. So, we were like, "No problem. We'll buy you out." >> How much would that cost?

About $350,000.

Okay. Keep going. Um so, we were going to rent out our current house because we only owe $50,000 on our current house and we

could rent it up and down. It's a two like it's suited. So, we could rent it for two units. Okay. And then we would have no mortgage payment. Like the renters would pay the 350, technically 400, I guess, if we paid off this house, if that makes sense. Okay? >> Uh-huh. I'm with you.

So, where's the hang-up? Where's the the bottleneck?

The hang-up is my cousin

doesn't want to leave yet.

>> Are they living rent-free or are they paying rent?

They are not paying rent. They are paying the cost of ownership of the property. So, like the property taxes and utilities or whatever. >> No wonder they don't want to move out.

I [laughter] know. I know. But it's Here's the thing. It It was It's a really long story, but short long story short, they had an agreement with my mother, like I don't know if there was some like my mother owed them something or whatever, but they have basically like a 5-year lease where they don't have to pay anything except the upkeep of the house.

So, they're basically living in the house and of the 5 years? Two two years.

that technically they could stay for 3 more years. Now, the problem is >> That's in writing? Like me and my sisters yes. So, me and my sisters we like agreed that they as long as it's not a cost to any of us that the cousins can stay. That's fine. Okay. But, the problem for me is our house is too small. It's too small.

And so, Got it. >> my husband and I want want to buy another house. We want to move, but the problem is if we go and we buy a house

then what let's say tomorrow the cousin we buy a house the cousin say, "Okay.

Uh just kidding. We're going to leave now." I see the problem.

>> won't qualify to pay out my sisters. Do

you know what I mean? So, I'm like do I go buy a house or do I kick them out?

>> What's on fire that you need to like that I know you your house is not big enough, but why is that? Did you just have a Did you just have babies? What happened in that suddenly I have to move now? I have one baby and I have another one on the way and we have a two-bedroom house. Okay. So, I'm going to say

something radical here.

And Okay. the radical thing is the kids

share a room.

And you do that for 3 years. It's like the rooms are like I'm in a very small house. >> square foot? >> Like 750.

>> Okay. Yes, you are correct. That is a That is a small Here, let me lay out your options because if I understand and if I'm wrong, stop me, okay? Because you did give me a lot of details.

The [laughter] cousin The cousins have a lease. And if the shoe were on the other foot,

you would want your lease to be honored.

And it's in writing. >> I don't have a problem I don't have a problem with them honoring the lease.

What I have a problem with is the fact that they're so like, "I'm going to move tomorrow. Oh, no, I'm not. Well, I don't know if I'm going to stay or if I'm going to go. Well, they can do that for the next 3 years.

They get to do that for the next 3 years cuz they have a lease. >> that puts us in a that puts us in a really hard spot for the next 3 years, right? >> the part where I want to decouple. I think that you need to decouple your plans from that or you have to just decide I'm not letting them take me on an emotional roller coaster.

I'm just saying I don't have access to this house for 3 years and I'm just telling myself that. If for some reason it comes open earlier, fine, whatever, but I'm not going to let them take me on an emotional roller coaster.

maximum age for your newborn is going to be 3 years old and that they share a room for a while cuz the other option, which I don't think that you would like, is to buy something else because you do know that this other house is on the horizon and what this reminds me of, Ken, is um just the old kind of like

sacrificing to win mentality. If you really, really want to be in that house, Megan, uh that rental property that was your mother's, there's probably going to be an element of sacrifice involved to get there because it's going to be a sweet deal once you're in there, right? Yeah, we talk about this a lot, you >> Would it be wrong to like offer them my house? Like you guys are just two people, like move into my small house and let us have the four-bedroom house, you know?

Is that the word? >> get What do you think the relational reaction is to that if you were to do that?

Uh what do you mean?

Well, I'm with Jade, it feels presumptuous, so how would that go over if you said it that way to to them?

How would they respond? >> know. >> If you say, "Hey, I want your house. I don't want you to be able to do the the the lease because I'm on a timeline here. So, you guys leave your house, come move into my house, pay me rent.

I mean, that's >> No, no, they don't even have to pay me rent. I'll honor the same deal. I just we just need a bigger place. That's all.

And like, we don't want to we don't we just don't want to go we've been looking at houses and we just don't want to go buy a house and then have it be like, "Oh, just kidding. Now you have to buy your sisters out and now you can't qualify because you bought another house." >> the thing. You don't have to do anything cuz let's go back. You don't have to buy your sisters out.

You don't This is a deal that you've constructed in your mind that is like the perfect solution, right? In your mind, the perfect solution is I buy my sisters out, I kick the cousins out, we get into the house, we get we do this sooner than later, right? Like that's your a fairy tale ending. But the truth is you don't have to move into this house.

Uh the truth is the timeline is a timeline that you've constructed because you're uncomfortable in the current house. That's just the truth. This is like bare-bones truth. I'm not saying it's uncomfortable by the way.

I'm sure it sucks. But I'm just saying that's the truth.

And I understand what you're saying, but it does drive me Oh, I I probably left out a small probably large detail. They own another house.

That they could be living in? >> They own a different house. >> been nice to know about eight minutes ago. We're going into a break. But either way, either way either way, you're putting your future and your destiny in the hands of other people. And whenever you do that, it is frustrating because they're not going to do you can't control them. And they've got a 5-year lease.

Sorry.

>> [music]

[music]

>> If you want to grow, get better at communication. Until you figure that out, you're not going to move forward.

I've been there. In my new book, Stop Talking, Start Communicating, I unpack

the one thing that unlocked communication for me, the DISC assessment. It blew my mind and it changed how I connect with everyone and I'll show you how to do the same. This is a game-changer. For $34.99, you'll get the book and the DISC assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/store.

All right, our scripture of the day is from Psalm 16:11. You make known to me the path of life. In your presence is fullness of joy. At your right hand are pleasures forever.

And our quote of the day from Jordan Peterson, it's a luxury to pursue what makes you happy. It's a moral obligation to pursue what you find meaningful.

That's a good word. I like that.

>> like that. All right, let's go to Christine who joins us in Orlando, Florida. Christine, how can we help?

Well, hi everyone. Thanks for having me on today. I have um retired parents in their late 70s. My brother who's 45 moved in with them at the beginning of the pandemic and hasn't left since.

My parents are supporting him And, you know, they're they're getting older. They're starting to have health issues. And I do not want to be

responsible for him after they're gone.

But, I'm having a hard time reconciling

the I guess you moral obligation versus um practical

obligation.

Why would you be responsible for the brother?

What type of What is there something wrong that he's requiring support?

No, other than he just has never worked.

And uh Oh. It's one Yeah. Yeah. A- And

uh it's one of those things where I'm afraid if no one takes care of him or supports him, he'll end up homeless and,

you know, bad things happen when Is he on drugs?

He's not. It would be an easier conversation if he was. >> So, I guess my my question is why are you drawing the conclusion that he's totally helpless and will end up on the streets if he's fully able-bodied,

healthy? That would then then just be his personal choice, then, wouldn't it?

It It You're absolutely right. It i- And it is absolutely his choice. It's It's the, you know, tug of He's my only He's

really my only family once my parents are gone. Um And do you really think that rather than Let's Let's just Let's play this out for a second. Let's I mean, unfortunately, let's pretend your your I mean, your parents they were they're beamed up, they move on. Let's pretend you've put your foot down and said, "You know what? You know, you can't move in with me, Bobby." And do you really think Bobby will end up Do you truly, in your heart of hearts, think that he will say, "Okay, tonight I'm sleeping in a box"?

Just about. Um the reason he moved in with my parents is because he was sleeping in his car.

And my dad didn't want that for him.

And you're sure there's nothing else going on with him?

I am sure. Um there may be some mental health issues there that have never been diagnosed. >> Okay. That's helpful to know. Yeah.

Uh this is tough because of what you just said there.

It feels like you've got to get a little bit more plugged in on this, right? Like I think you have to get hands-on and find out to the best of your ability what is going on with him. In other words, if he's just a slacker for a lack of a better word, >> response is different. If there's some legitimate Uh I got to be careful how I say this.

Like if there's some legitimate magnical medical diagnosis that [clears throat] um put him in a position where he literally cannot take care of himself, that's a wholly different conversation. And it doesn't sound like you know.

Uh you know, when I I would suspect um and again, he's never been tested, but my suspicion is that he's somewhere on the autism spectrum. Interesting. Okay.

>> but but I know that there are very intelligent successful people on the spectrum who, you know, still take care of themselves.

And I don't know why it is that he has

taken this route. He He made comments years ago to my husband when we were dating. This was years ago that you know, he didn't think he had to work that much cuz someday my parents would die and he would inherit. But my parents aren't that type of inheritance, you know, if if that makes sense. So, his

concept and relationship with money is

completely unrealistic.

Well, I I'm going to go back to what I said a minute ago. I don't know that I can give great advice cuz I don't know much at all about what's going on cuz you don't know. So, I think you've been detached. So, I do think that this is the right time for you to dig in.

I agree with that. >> And become completely aware of what's going on. So, it you know, you have to assess the situation, at which point that allows you to make a good decision. And I think you're a good person and I think you have common sense.

But, I mean, you know, are you the only sibling? You are? I >> Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. that that's a big heavyweight there. So, I I would want to know what's really going on. I would want to talk to him, by the way.

I'd sit down with the parents and have your parents tell you what's going on.

And ask them what their expectations are. Not because you feel you have to do what they say, but I would just want to read the room. And I'd want to know what mom and dad said. Want to be looking for are they making excuses for him?

I think you'll pick up on that pretty quickly. Have they enabled him? Okay, I'd want to know that. Then, I'd want to sit with brother and get his take and go, "What's your plan if mom and dad are gone?" Like, let's have these conversations so that and let's do it in a way that tries to get everything out on the table, Jade.

Like, let's get all the pieces of the game board out.

>> I would That's a great That's a third thing. So, there's a checklist of three things. At which point, you now have a lot more information than you do today.

Yeah, yeah yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. And I think the challenges I mean, you're right. These are conversations that have to happen.

Um my family has always been pretty close to the vest. My mom's favorite saying was, you know, don't we don't air our dirty laundry in public. So, it's hard to kind of get them to to come out of their shell, but it is reaching the point where something's going to give and it's going to give disastrously or we can be prepared for it.

>> Mhm. You're right. Yeah, I think Ken is spot-on with that checklist of three items. And then from there on, you can really evaluate your options.

I don't know that there is a world um because if he's getting evaluated, let's pretend it comes back and there is something there. Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to try to get into it, but I there's a lot of nuance in what you're able to, you know, do and not do and accomplish and not accomplish and and what sort of care you might need or what type of therapies you might need.

you're a detective.

Right. I agree.

Right. So that you can decide what's my role as a steward. Mhm. You know. Mhm.

So the question becomes what happens?

Let's fast forward to cuz you called.

What do you what do you think of let's assume and Jade kind of hit you on this, but what how would you react if they were again gone? What would you do today knowing what little you know?

Yeah, if it were to happen today, I'm afraid I would just shut down to be honest with regards to that situation because it has been so

polarizing and emotional within our family. My parents [clears throat] I know were frustrated with him living there, but every time they try they have tried to talk to him about it, it he shuts down and they don't really get any answers.

So it's really hard to to navigate, but it it's something's got to give.

Okay, so what does shut down mean?

Meaning that you act like it doesn't exist and he you're he's dead to you kind of a deal shut down or or what? I

guess shut down in terms of maybe just yeah, walking walking away from the situation.

Um just being overwhelmed, not knowing what to do, um how to handle [clears throat] him when he's been um supported and and enabled um his his

whole life. Yeah, this is why again we got to go back to I think what you would have to do is not shut down, but hopefully you do this now. So if this happens you're ready.

You know, is he in a situation where he he be a ward of the state or some type of I you know and that's a little >> to probably pass through Medicaid. Like if if they play their cards right, yeah, there should be something there um for him which is so important to do those first steps.

Mhm. Yeah. Okay, well, that's what I wanted to know. I wanted to and so that tells me that so the reason I asked that question is because I wanted to know where your head is and your heart.

Mhm. And um it sounds to me like your head and heart are aligned that you don't think you should help him and quite frankly you don't want to. That still may not be an option, right? >> Right.

You may have to uh on some level and so I think >> Right, right.

Yeah. That's the goal.

So I hope that helps. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

No, thank you. Thank you and you know that's very helpful. Good. And here's the deal. Don't do anything out of guilt.

Do everything out of values.

Big difference. [music] Big difference.

Well, folks, remember this. There's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 267. You Don’t Build Wealth by Ignoring Basic Financial Principles | December 30, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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This episode is filled with some of our best calls and advice, but unless you take what you hear and put it to work in your own life, you'll be stuck with the same money stress in 2026. So, make a change and download every dollar today.

>> [music]

>> Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Rachel Cruze joins me.

And we're here for you. 888-825-5225

888-825-5225 is the number to jump in and we would love to coach you up today. We start off with Dan in Grand Rapids. Dan, how can we help you today?

Um um my wife and I are preparing to retire. As a matter of fact, her last day of work is tomorrow. Mine will be the uh beginning of February. So, 40 years of effort towards this.

Um Dan, how are you Dan, I got to ask you this. This is I mean, we we men have to unite cuz we don't do this well. We got Rachel here to help us on this. Before we dive in, what is the plan when she finishes the day tomorrow and she wraps it up and comes home?

Um you know, we don't.

>> [laughter] >> It it came on pretty quick. We both had this date in February picked and then her department dissolved and they said you can either take a buyout or you can transfer to another department. So, this all happened for her in the last 3 weeks. So, >> Okay, but presumably she's excited about this?

Oh, absolutely, yes. >> Dan, listen, I don't want to spend too much time on this. Rachel's here to back me up. >> [laughter] >> This is where you got to step up.

I mean, this is you got to do something special. She comes home, maybe a little surprise. If she hates surprises, plan a little something. >> Yeah, a little retirement a little retirement celebration.

You're wrapping it up. We got to celebrate her is my point. I don't want to And I'm glad I said this, Dan, because you might have blown it had I not brought this up. >> [laughter] >> You're very I appreciate that. She works from home, but I will bring something home and make it monumental. She works from home. Okay. Rachel, what does he do in that situation? I feel like this is your category. >> Champagne. Pop the bottle. There >> Right outside the door.

Neither one of us drink, but I'll get some sparkling Boy, we're striking out, Dan. We're striking out. The grape juice. Sparkling grape juice. Okay. No, just do something special. All right, so we we've we've now helped you there.

That's the help you didn't know you needed. Now, keep going.

>> [laughter] >> We we are we work very hard to get where we're at and we're very comfortable with what we're planning for retirement.

We're very comfortable with our financial advisor, but I have one concern that he's got me a plan that he's got for me and we are going to put an addition on our house next spring.

So, we're planning to spend about 100 to 120,000 to do that. Now, my plan was

just kind of take that off the top of our 401k and our savings and and make that do the addition. What

he's suggesting, and he gave me I guess good reasons, is he's suggesting that I take out like a HELOC or a home equity loan to do this project and he said we'll chunk it away pretty quick, but he said there's reasons for that. First of all, I'll be paying a lower interest rate than he can make me. That's arguable.

The second thing he said was it is a definitely be a tax write-off and the third thing was the fact that it'll save

me 20 plus thousand dollars next year in taxes because of the tax bracket that he is aligning us with. And it just it it's very hard for me to think about going into debt immediately as I retire.

Well, yeah, 100% because is he What Where is he planning on having you guys pay off the HELOC? When he said he can throw a bunch of like a bunch of money at it. Is he thinking just a little bit every year so that you don't mess up the taxes and all of it?

Yeah, he's saying he'll chunk it away and I don't know how relevant chunking it away is if it's a year or 5 years, but he said we'll just make a monthly payment on it. And again, that it'll give us a tax advantage, it'll save us taxes and all this, which all kind of makes sense, but dang it, you know, just got myself 40 years of work to get out of debt and retire and then just thinking about going back into debt just kind of scares me.

clearly living a debt-free life has a price tag for you.

Uh you know, you can't put a price on it, but you know, it it's a value of yours that he's not putting into any consideration. And so, as he goes around but so Michael, yeah. So, no, I would not do this. I would 100% just cash flow

it. And if the cash flow comes out of I don't know if it's the 401k, if you guys have money elsewhere, um but you have the ability to cash flow, right, Dan?

Yeah, yeah, we we got a set amount that we're going into retirement with that we're comfortable with and it's going to last us long beyond our retirement.

>> Yep. >> And just thinking of taking out 100 or 120 right off the top of that and doing the addition was my plan until he came up with >> let's just put your plan >> a suggestion. Yeah, I yeah. I want to put your plan to the test, not his suggestion. We hate his suggestion.

Okay. So, let's put your plan to the test. Let's assume that you didn't get this advice at all.

Okay? >> Yes. And you just went ahead and pulled the trigger on your plan.

How do you feel emotionally about your plan? Any stress? Oh, I know, I don't think so. Um we've kind of intentionally we have this 403b that we've been carrying for a long time and I've been very aggressive with it and I took it from 20,000 to it's about 170 right now. So, my thought was that is just some play money we didn't actually not planning on, but we've accumulated that we'd do this project for. >> What's the addition for?

Oh, well, we raised seven kids in our house and it it was fine with nine people, but now what we find is with adult children, instead of nine people every day, we have 29 people, you know, 10 times a year. So, we want to double our kitchen and our living room. Double 450 How much How much How much do you guys have in retirement total?

Uh just about 2 million. Okay.

Golly. See, and he's going through all these hoops and stuff about this and that and that. You guys have 2 million dollars. Do you know what I mean?

And you want to take [clears throat] 100,000 of it. And if you go and burn that amount in the middle of the room, like you're not going to have any emotion towards it cuz it's such a small percentage of your net worth. So, that's where the peace of mind of your value system overrides his sneaking and maneuvering through where it's going to be not even that much money at the end of the day. Do you know what I'm saying?

Like I would rather I mean, Dan, you you answered your own question.

his plan gives me a little bit of heartburn. Enough that the Pepcid AC is not working and you called us today. Right?

>> It did, yeah. And I I I think I knew where you were going to take me, but I just kind of wanted to hear it. Yeah, and I appreciate that and we're happy to be here for you, but you, sir, are the ultimate arbiter on this. Your body,

your heart, your head. And man, you're just like, man, if I can put this addition on Yeah, and I would I would run it for my grandkids to be there.

Yeah, and I would run the numbers, too, cuz I am curious cuz the HELOCs like the the rates go up and down. Like it really is very dependent upon what's going on.

>> run the rates at all. I don't want you to be tempted. >> it's not a temptation, but it's that versus what You know what I mean? Like that versus the taxes that you're going to pay on a hun Like like what I'm saying is I think it ends up being closer to a wash than what you realize.

I think that the guy I I think I I think he's like nitpicking every little thing to say I'm making this number up. I I haven't done the calculations, but to save 10 gra Whatever the thing is and and that's pennies to you guys. So, I'm like, the peace of mind is worth that so much more. Yeah, just listening to you describe everything he told you versus your plan, yours is simple.

Boom. We're done. We're done. And do you

Do you all have >> I think you said kind of makes sense Do you Yeah, do you have money elsewhere, Dan, where to his point, do you have money sitting in a high-yield savings or something where you wouldn't necessarily have to pay taxes if you use that cash?

We have about a $40,000 savings account

and then a 401k.

I have a lump sum pension and a 403b.

>> Okay. Got you. Got you. Nope, that's great. Yeah, no, I would not go borrow on my house to do an addition when I freaking have the money for it. >> Yeah. That's that's the bottom line.

Trust your gut, Dan. There's a whole bunch of science on this that trusting the gut is not this mysterious thing.

It's actually the brain sending physical signals to the body and it we feel it in our body. That's a real thing. Has the same validity as the logic. Listen to your heart. Listen to your body. You were right. Thanks for calling. Tell the financial advisor, thanks, but no thanks.

>> [music]

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>> Well, you know, some days uh we have a fabulous audience. Most days for the show we have a fabulous audience comes to the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions and and uh we can see these fine people looking through the glass. We go out and say hi and all that kind of stuff. And today happens to be a birthday day. We've had uh two birthdays. And so, we had young Millie, um who was 28, and now

we just met the fabulous Carol,

who just turned 80 a couple days ago, and she's got the team out there. And notice the glasses. She's got a sash.

What do you call that? It's a uh yeah.

>> a sash? She's got a tiara.

And she's got these fabulous glasses, James. >> She's hating this right now, I think, isn't she? >> By the way, >> [laughter] >> Carol looked as though she was in shock, James. And she's very embarrassed by all the attention. And so, one of the party that she's with loaned me their glasses.

So, I wanted to say a special happy birthday to you, Carol. You look fabulous. You don't look a day over 50.

Uh and uh we're we're very blessed that you're here and and uh >> And they're about to hit the town. They're going to go to You should meet them at broad on Broadway.

>> I'm going to ask James if I can take the rest of the show off and I'm just going to head in there. >> ready to play Bennie and the Jets or something right [laughter] now.

Bennie and the Jets. So, there you go.

There you go. How about that? Very fun stuff. So, happy birthday again. So fun.

>> So fun when people spare uh spend their special day with us. >> I know. We get anniversaries. We get honeymoons sometimes. >> Yeah, we do. >> That's always the craziest one. I'm like, I can't believe you're here on your honeymoon. So fun. The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Wiser Refi. Wiser Refi offers a different approach to paying off your defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate for less stress. Go to wiserrefi.com/ramsey.

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It may not be available in all states.

All right, today's question comes from Aiden in New Mexico. My wife is a contract business consultant and is also self-employed as an artist. When it comes to paperwork, she's very disorganized. It has gotten to the point

where I have taken my tax documents to a tax preparer twice because I didn't want the IRS auditing me. I beg her every year to get her stuff together and to file on time, but it never happens, which leads to arguments. How do I get her to understand the seriousness of the situation? Oof. That's tough. Well, it's taxes. Like, it's back to taxes. Yeah.

>> Cuz you've got to do it. >> Yeah, and that's that's what I was going to say. Like, so this is a relationship issue. But in this situation, it's not you coming to the to the table with a hey, let me tell you about these baby steps.

Let me tell you about this Ramsey plan. I'd like to get us on a budget. Like, this is the federal government. >> This is the law.

[laughter] This is a yeah, there's no wiggle room here. So, it it it seems like it needs to be a reality check. This isn't trying to get her on board.

>> This is like we will go to jail.

>> This is the law. >> And I don't think I look good in orange, sweetheart. You [laughter] know, or whatever you got to say here. I This comes back to a relationship thing, but I I hate to make it so simplistic. I I want you to weigh in, but I I think it is hey, this is super serious.

This isn't my opinion. We have to do this. Let's make this a lot less difficult by Let's get all our stuff together and be be on the same page.

Yeah, and I think self-awareness is huge because she's an artist, and I'm not I'm not pointing fingers, but I do think there is a >> that's a fair point. >> When you are an artist, you there is a little bit more of a free spirit within you, right? Numbers is usually not your strength. And vice versa. So, people that are great with numbers are terrible usually at being creative. So, it's it's a again, it it is how you were wired and

gifted. And then I think it is a self-aware adult to say, hey, I have things and weaknesses in my life and in my personality. I'm going to be an adult, and I have to obey the law, but also what systems can I put in place to help me in those weaknesses cuz I'm not naturally good at all of this, right?

She's very disorganized, is what he said. So, um so that would be more of the conversation of, hey, what can we do to help you? It's not a point the finger Yep. at you constantly.

It is hey, yeah, this is the law, so it has to be done. So, what systems can we put in place together? And as the husband, I'm here to help you. And I mean, and he's like on his own, where he's like, I'm just taking my tax documents and blah over here, which I get cuz he doesn't want to go to jail, either, right? So, He's got to hedge his bets. >> Yeah, seriously. Um but I think it's it is hey, how can I help us help you put

some systems into place.

But there is a point that she has to be an adult. Right? Like, you can you can be on you can you can carve a situation in a conversation a certain way to a point.

But there's also a point, Kim, with all of this, especially the law, but then other things of like, my wife just continues to spend more, there's just a point that like you you're not able to change that person, and they have to be the adult, and it's sad when they're not. But we see that a lot around here, but It's a really tough situation. Thanks for sharing the question with us. Knoxville, Tennessee, the home of Go Vols.

>> Rachel's alma mater. Go Vols. Sam, is there? Sam, how can we help?

Yes, I have a question for you regarded

to my truck.

I have a 2001 truck, and it just rolled out of

warranty. I intend to keep the truck for

a longer period of time, or at least I hope so. Um and was offered an extended warranty

by the dealership. And so, what I did is

added up all of the cost of repairs that

wouldn't have been covered or weren't covered by warranty that no longer would, and it came out to about 8,800

bucks in 4 years that I've owned the truck. So, it hasn't been necessarily super reliable, uh very expensive to repair. And uh as I intend on keeping the truck or want to keep the truck, I kind of want to explore my options. Uh should I buy this warranty uh for $5,600?

Uh should I risk it, continue driving the truck for another 100,000 miles uh without warranty? Or should I go out and get a new truck with a fresh warranty?

Uh what what's your opinion, and kind of just want to gauge a direction to go in.

What's been the repairs? I mean, about 2,000 a year is what it ends up being.

What has it been? Yeah, it it's really a

little stuff, to be honest with you.

It's uh the motor in the tailgate. It's got one of these automatic tailgates.

It was the air conditioning control module in the dash. It was a sensor uh

in the I guess the parking sensor system. Yeah. Uh it's what I'm concerned about. Go ahead.

>> Go ahead. Well, I was going to say, I mean, you know, as you kind of look through this from a math perspective, it's less than like 200 bucks a month is what it ends up being, which just feels expensive. Like, if the stuff isn't being fixed, like that's one issue. Um but I'm not a big fan of extended warranties because I'm like, it's the thing should work, and if not, I would rather it be in my court.

I get Unless there's some crazy recall right now, Sam, and they're like, you know, giving you some discounts on the extended warranty or whatever it may be, but um I we usually factor in cars. We have a sinking fund that we've set up that if anything goes wrong with the cars, we use that sinking fund. So, again, for yours, it's coming out to be around $200 a month.

Yeah, no, you're right. And um for me,

it's not really a money issue. Um you know, the truck's paid off. Um right,

the 200 bucks a month is really negligible based on our income.

It's more kind of a

uh I guess a psychological feel. Do I keep throwing money at the truck Now, that's a different question. That's where I came down. Yeah, that's a different question.

>> where I came down. I agree with everything Rachel said. I'm going to come down on this one and go, I'm the kind of guy, this is the way I'm wired, where I'm I'm not going to keep dealing with this truck. I'm going to go, this thing's a lemon, or it's an issue with the manufacturer, and they just don't do a good job making the parts, and I'm just tired of this mess.

For me, cuz I in your situation, I would be in the same boat. Any mechanical work I got to do, I'm not stressed out about it. I got the money set aside, whatever, whatever, whatever.

Time is money. You remember that old phrase? Kind of true. There you go.

>> Sam, is that what you said?

Yeah, it's a 2001 with 80,000 miles on it, and it's a it's a hybrid. And I don't know if you kind of look into some of these hybrid issues, but if the hybrid motors or the battery >> 2021 or 2001? I didn't know they were making hybrids in '01. No, it's a 21. It's a 2021. Oh. Yeah, you kept saying '01. I was like, man, they were ahead of their game with I know. [laughter] That's what I was going to say. 2021.

I couldn't spell hybrid in Okay. So, 2021. That makes way more sense. I was like, this I'd get rid of it. I'd sell it. I'd sell it.

>> Okay. And that's somebody else's problem. And I'd go get myself a truck that had a much higher rating that I'm not in the shop all the time. And again, it's just the nick These are like little paper cuts, it feels like. What a nuisance, man. I'd be like, why would I buy your warranty? How about you make a better truck? That's what I'd have said to the dealer, but I can be sassy that way. But I feel like that's true.

>> How about I I got an idea. Why don't you make a better truck that I don't need all this warranty cuz all the stuff seems like it's little piddly stuff. [music] So, you've got the cash, I'd get rid of the nuisance, let it be somebody else's problem.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruze is alongside and we are here for you. 888-825-5225.

Henry's up

next in Tampa, Florida. Henry, how can we help?

Hi everybody. Um, thank you so much for taking my call. How are you guys? Good.

How are you today?

I'm all right. Uh, question for you. Um,

quick and easy question about I'm not I'm not easy question, but uh I have a a lease that I just I purchased in the last uh year or two there, but uh just heard about you guys. Um, the lease

is uh for the next uh two more years left on it there.

I wondering if I should ever get out of

it, pay out of the the lease there to get a some money, not necessarily money back there, but pay pay the lease there. Um, I mean, um sell sell the car or um get

out of the lease to be able to pay low pay pay something like that.

Yeah, it's a great question. What What are you paying a month?

1,500. Ooh. Oof. What kind of car is

that? A Mercedes GLE 350.

Well, a GLE is pretty nice. Pretty nice car. Good taste, Henry. You got You got some good taste.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

>> it's eating you alive and it's not worth it. So, we got We got to get it out of here, right? Okay. >> I Yeah, I just I just I mean I mean yeah, so I'm like that. >> Give us the uh terms of where you are Walk us through the terms.

All right. So, if I were to um terminate my payoff right now, it'd be about 60 60,000 dollars there to pay off there. I've looked on I've heard you guys talking about it, so I looked on the Kelly Blue Book and it's about you get 46 46 47,000

on it. Mhm. Um, and then um

uh um >> private sale? [clears throat] >> So, and I've Was that? Yeah, that's Yeah, so Kelly Blue Book private sale. So, that would leave you with 13,000 that you would owe, right?

Yeah. Yes.

And do you have any cash, Henry?

Not much, no. Okay, what do you make a year? Um, so uh I make about 250,000. Oh,

that's good news.

Yeah, that's great. So, you would need another car, correct?

Correct.

To be able to Yeah, to replace it. Yeah, so we got to replace it. So, we got the 13,000 that you would then owe, and then we've got the the cost of a replacement car, but with your income, you can get something decent if you really work on your budget, right? Yeah, that would be my goal, because two more years of this Oof. I mean, that's a lot, right? So

It's a good amount, yeah. Yeah, for sure. So, that I mean, I'm I'm

According to you guys, I'm I'm I mean I I was the This is the first time I ever thought of it like that I'm I'm broke, but I do owe have a good amount of debt as well, too, over a million dollars debt. Okay, so tell Yeah, give me the rest of your financial picture. I'm just curious where you're at. Um, so I um student loans 180,000.

Mhm. Credit card debt about 70,000.

Okay. And then mortgage is about 690,000.

Okay.

Ooh, Henry, you've been living the life, haven't you?

Uh, yes, me and my wife. Not So, I guess I Let me I Let me rephrase that, cuz you I know you mentioned total income. My wife is making 100,000, so total is 350.

Okay. You guys have plenty of money.

You just got to get it under control.

And yes, and you know, and that's the other thing, too, that trying to go from that life to hearing about you guys and changing life completely. Like I'm I'm I'm like, let's go hard. And I And my wife is like, what are you talking about there? So, you know, it's definitely different and hard there to actually talk to her about it as well, too, just the budget.

Yeah. Yeah, totally. And I think, Henry, too, just as a piece of advice, usually when, you know, when people are in your position, the one that kind of hears, okay, there's a different way we can do this. And you go and tell your wife, we're going to stop shopping and stop eating out, she's probably like, what the [laughter] Henry, what are you talking about?

You've lost your mind.

why. So, I am curious, Henry, for you, what what has caused you up to this point living the way you have with money, both of you, and then you hear us, which is very counter with how you've been living, what's been appealing about that? Like, what is it in you that's like, oh my gosh, I want that side of money, not what I've been doing?

Um, the idea of freedom.

Yeah. I'm like I'm like trying to talk with you, but I'm like holding my breath and like the the heaviness of just owing

so much money. Like, the fact that I'm like, wait a second, I never thought about how much I owe and how much debt I'm in. I've always been thinking about right now, how much I owe for the month. Yep.

>> when I calculated it all after talking to you guys or listening to you guys, I was like, I owe a million Yeah.

Yep. And so, and I'm like, I can't do this anymore, especially when the wife says, oh, I'd love to have a new summer kitchen. I'm like, what are you talking about? We have no money for that. >> Yeah. That's right. That's right. So, Henry, that's that's what I want you to communicate to her. Mhm. Is I can't breathe. Like, I I And we hear that a lot, Henry. You're not the only one.

It's It's this level of stress and anxiety and weight, because you don't

own your life. Somebody These credit cards, right? Everything owns you.

And it's exhausting. And to your point, we work hard and I feel like I have no money, right? When I ask you how much money you have saved, it's like I don't have it. >> We work so much hard, like overtime sometimes, too, and I'm like, how do I How am I having nothing at the end of the paycheck there? I'm like, Right.

>> what everyone does? I don't understand this. Right. Exactly. So, how much do you guys bring home a month? I was I was trying to do it with taxes and everything, but when when you guys get paid, how much per month are you bringing in, both you and your wife? So, I think I I'm about 12 or 13,000 and she

is about 4,000. So, I would say about 16

17 16,000. 16,000. Okay. And that's

after taxes? Are you guys funding retirement? >> Yes. Um, yes. We have been putting in the retirement. >> You make $350,000

a year. You do.

Yes. No, no. Yes, the total. Total. So

So I don't understand those take-home numbers. What What What is your take-home? Yours, just you.

You Just me, about 16 16 16,000. I'm sorry, 12 12,000 for

me. And And And you're also >> you asked about the putting into retirement. Yes, I've been putting into retirement. >> Yeah, off of gross. So, what's your gross? Your gross and her gross.

Total gross is 350. Right. You're 250,

she's So, I >> She's 100. And then after taxes, retirement, insurance, like after all of that, right? What hits I just felt like her take-home was really low off of a $100,000 salary, her take-home would only be 4,000. That felt low to me. So, I just don't know if you know your numbers, and the reason I'm calling that out is part of this problem is you don't really know your numbers.

Yeah. Yeah. Or she's having way too much withholding taken out. And And at this point, you're brand new to us, Rachel.

Explain the retirement should be paused and all that right now to bring in as much as they can. Yeah, for sure. So, So, yeah. So, So, Henry, the the whole concept You guys really need to dig in, because if you're getting a big tax refund every year, that's money back in the paycheck that may not be shown here.

Uh, I would be pausing retirement. I'd be pausing everything. And you and your wife again sitting down and saying, hey, together. It's going to be really hard to do this without her.

So, I want Henry to be as honest and vulnerable with with her tonight and just talk about how scared I mean, how scared you are, honestly. >> with me? Do I [laughter] I know. We can't We'll coach you.

We'll coach you. No, but it Probably should have had her on this call. >> Yeah, and and and to show her and show her the realization and and the truth is, Henry, for your own mental sake, you can't you you guys can't keep doing this, right?

And so, um for you guys, it's going to look different. And so, I would sit down with her and just say, "Hey, here's where I want to go. Here's the goals I want to have." And you can kind of map them out ahead of time um just to say, "Okay, you know, we we have gosh, um yeah, almost almost a million dollars. Not not including the mortgage, but the credit cards, the student loan, all of it.

Mapping it out to say, "With our income and doing a budget and saying if we just cut everything." And Henry, to your point, this is going to be a 180 from the lifestyle you guys have been living. You've been living kind of the high life and enjoying life. And it's going to it to get out of this, we always say you can wander your way into debt, you cannot wander your way out. And so, there has to be an intentional plan.

>> That's right. But um but gosh, I mean, in in, you know, 3 or 4 years, you guys could have a completely different life financially speaking. >> think so. >> And you getting a side hustle, Henry?

>> love that. Yeah, adding, you know, adding more income and all of that. So, you know, if you stay on the line, Henry, Christian uh is going to pick up and we're going to give you Financial Peace University for you and your wife to sit down together and go through it.

It's our nine-lesson course. And this gives you the basics. And so, it can be she can get mad at us, not you, for delivering the information. >> I would say this, I think do what Rachel said as far as your approach to her, but I think you need to show her you mean business >> [music] >> by you getting rid of that car. Yep.

>> That will show her uh you're not just talking. Get it out of here. >> You're making some sacrifice. And then one of these days, you'll be driving one of those bad boys again, but it'll be cash. This is the Ramsey show.

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[music] >> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

When it comes to your money, Ken, one of the largest [music] purchases that majority of people make is their home.

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All right, up next we're going to uh Diego in Sacramento.

Hey, Diego, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Absolutely. How can we >> wife and I just Uh yes, sorry. Uh yeah, my wife and I just had a baby and we've been having a discussion about opening a college account for my 529. And my wife is on the side of saving um as much as we can uh enough to pay for his whole uh

college tuition. And I'm more on the side of um maybe uh not doing that just because um you know, for for me, when I went to school, I didn't have that and I think it built a lot of character in myself. Um you know, my parents, they provided a place for me to sleep. Uh you know, they they didn't charge me any rent and you know, they provided food for me every day. So, um I I felt I felt like I was really blessed that in what they gave me, you know, what they could.

Um and I felt like it you know, it it built some character in me. I worked through school and and it um you know, showed me like, you know, the value of of money and and how, you know, um you know, what I'm paying for it for school. It you know, it it You know, that it just showed me the value of it. So, I just wanted to get your guys' opinion on whether maybe there's like a middle point between my wife and I or or maybe we should just avoid it altogether or or yeah, saving all of it that we can and do that good thing.

Well, I think it this comes down to, Rachel, how big of a stressor this is for you guys when you talk about it.

Oh, super low. I mean, we're we're very good about, you know, communicating. We never had a problem with that. Um Uh so, when you >> told her your point of view, did she agree with you and go, "Hmm, that's interesting." or did she go, "Uh it's too old school. I want to help."?

No, she yeah, she said yeah, pretty much what you're saying. Yeah, like she she would prefer you know, us having more, you know, a better better means than our parents did. And she's saying like we should know we should afford something like that. >> So, So, let me tell you, Diego, your um the way you're going about this and your your heart and your thought process, I really love because I do think that our kids have to have grit. Our kids have to

have a level of struggle. Our kids have to be able to know how to appreciate things, not be entitled, know how to work hard, right? Like all of these elements of who they're going to be at the character part of them, we all want as parents, right? Or at least I hope parents want that for their kids.

And that's what you're wanting, right? And so, what you're thinking is you're going to do it through the means of paying for their own college.

and and and also be able to have their college paid for?

Because, Diego, my parents paid for my college and I'll tell you there was stipulations around it. And so, we had to go to an in-state school.

We had to graduate in 4 years. And that was kind of the main barriers. So, I remember thinking, you know, I wanted to go to Auburn University and I remember Dad being like, "All right, well, calculate the tuition and the difference between a school in Tennessee, a public university in Tennessee, minus the tuition of a school in Alabama, you pay the difference." And I looked and I was like, "No, thanks. Go Vols.

I'll go in-state." And then it was, "All right, well, now I have to take 15 hours every semester." While some of my friends were taking nine, so, you know, cuz people would graduate a semester late or a year later and they kind of just like worked their way through. I had to be on a You know what I mean? Like I I had to have that schedule.

if your school is paid I don't think that's true. I think it's a way that you feel that. Winston, my husband, you know, he had to work his way through, not the tuition part, but everything else. He had to figure he had to have a job to pay rent and pay for food and all of that, right?

So, um so, I think that there are ways to accomplish what you want for your kids and it may look different. And I'll give you one more example then I'll be quiet like Ken jump in. But like for us right now, Diego, we have a nine, seven, and five-year-old.

And we have a lawn company mow our lawn.

And he really really struggled with our

kids not growing up watching him mow the lawn. Cuz he had a lawn care business in college and he was like, "I want my kids to see physical I want you know, he was so hard on that on him self on that.

But then as we talked, he was like, "But right now, my time is better spent with them on Saturdays than going and doing that. What are ways now that we almost have to manufacture a life where they don't get what they want. They're going to have to work and do things to get what they want." So, does that make sense? I just don't want to over-generalize that if your college is paid for, you're going to be some spoiled entitled brat.

And Yeah. And maybe it's revealed to them. >> And I'm glad you really segued nicely for me. You didn't even know it. I'm going to throw a different angle at you, Diego. Because on one hand, I love the fact that you're going, "I don't I don't owe my kids a college education." And I don't think you do.

Um but I'm not going to qualify this. I'm just going to say this. And this comes from experience.

Diego, just because you worked your way through college and you took all the benefits that you obviously did, doesn't mean that your child or children are going to do the same as you. Uh they aren't you, number one. They really aren't. They aren't you. They They They will have some of your DNA.

Uh but they are not you, and they will

have different experiences, they will have different environments growing up, and I think one of the challenges that we face, and I'm just being really vulnerable here that that I've had to learn as a father of three is that

the things that I did, the things that I learned, the way that I handled life is so unique to me, and I know I'm saying something that's completely obvious, but I think we forget this.

And I I would just say that in this case if you played this out the way that you desire. Let's say your wife just went, "I love that, Diego. Let's do that." There's a really high high probability

that one or both or all of your kids, however many you have won't deal with it the way that you dealt with it, and they may go, "Dad's out of his mind, the old coot. He's a goofball, and I'm going to go get a student loan, and because I can." And they get it done so effortlessly in the very thing that you idealized and kind of thought, "This is how I see it going." It would even break your heart.

It's very It's flexible as to how you can use those funds for lots of qualifications cuz the world Here's the other thing.

The world's changing. The world is changing so quickly right now. What will higher ed look like when these babies are to that age? You and I have zero

clue what's going to look like. So, I hope that perspective helps you. I don't think it's as easy as you just going, "This is how I want it to be because that's how it was for me." And I get that. If anybody gets that, believe me.

I actually talk like that sometimes.

>> [laughter] >> I mean, is that 100% Well, I'm trying to be transparent. I think that's true, and I think And again, I want to reiterate, Diego the sentiment of what you're longing for your kids to have is so good. Like, that is so good. Because we want our kids And you're right, other ways to do it.

But I think that there is I'm like there's there's different other And there's so much between And like have them pay for their car when they're 60, right? I mean, like there's things you can implement >> try an instrument, a sport, a hobby.

them fail. And they're going to, and the world's hard enough in general, right?

I'm like they're they're they're going to bump up against it, but I think you can create an environment with your within your home between now [music] and 18 um that creates, you know, I I I

knock on wood, I believe this, and I hope it's true, you know, not perfect kids [music] but kids that you are able to shape

under your household, and you as a parent [music] get to put some of those guardrails in place. And if you give them everything they want, are they going to be more spoiled? Sure. If they got to work and figure out and problem solve then that's going [music] to be good for them, too. So, I think there's ways you can do it. But thanks for the call, Diego. Thanks for all the guys in the booth. Thank you, Ken Coleman, and thank you, America. We'll [music] be back.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance, or

they don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something?

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it, and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. That's a gut punch. And Oh, you're telling me And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

They've lost somebody important to them. Me, too. They don't know what to do next. Me, too.

I mean You're going to have a crisis here, and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> the two options. And carry your dadgum family, man.

Yeah. To just miss you. That's exactly what it's supposed to be. It's saying I love you to your family. Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show, coming to you from the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Well, I'm sitting beside Rachel Cruze. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to be with you today, and we want to coach you up. 888-825-5225.

Antoinette is joining us now in Fort Worth, Texas. Antoinette, how can we help?

Well, um I'm going to be 62 next month,

and I don't have anything saved for retirement, and I want to become a first-time homeowner, and I don't know if that's stupid or ridiculous, or if it's possible.

Well, I don't think it's stupid or ridiculous. Let's focus on the possible part. Give us a picture of your financial situation given that you have zero retirement or very little retirement.

I have no retirement, and I have no money for a down payment, so I would have to go USDA or step five, something with a zero down, and so that would make my payments even higher. >> No, you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. Do you have any debt?

Yes, I have some, but not unmanageable, and I'm getting it paid off really quick. >> Okay, how much debt do you have?

Uh I think Credit Karma said I had about uh $8,000 or something like that. I just paid off uh $600 worth of two of my accounts in the last month, so. Is the 8,000 credit cards or personal loans?

What is it?

Uh let's see. I paid off the personal loan, and so uh and one of them is my car. And uh the rest of them are credit cards. I've got I think four credit cards. How much is in your car? Uh do you owe on your car?

Uh gosh, I can't remember. Um I'm really bad with money, I mean, numbers, and so I just know that I just got it 2 months ago, and I had to trade in my other car because it was a 2019. It was convertible, and but it didn't convert anymore, and uh mechanically it was sound, but everything else on it was falling apart. So, I had to get rid of it, and I was upside down on it cuz uh last year it was worth uh $17,000, and then this year it was worth $5,000.

uh I owe more on the I mean, I had to get a minivan cuz I'm so popular, I can't have a little convertible. So, I owe more on my minivan than really I should, so. Okay, and you probably And did you roll over the negative negative equity on the um

on the convertible?

Yes. Into the minivan. Okay, so how much do you owe on the minivan?

I don't know.

You don't know. Antoinette, you signed a loan. You don't You don't know how much the total is.

That's right. All right. All right. She had to go to Credit Karma on the other thing. So, one of our problems, Antoinette, is you don't have a firm grasp of your numbers. Yeah, she already said she's bad with them, but it's not a case >> and I can't remember numbers.

Oh, but it's not about that. It's about do you have a file over in your house somewhere where we got the car information?

Yes, but I'm a truck driver, so my house is uh like 2,000 mi away.

Why do you need a minivan if you're driving a truck all the time?

I go home sometimes.

And you're popular, so you and the ladies are hopping in the minivan. Okay.

All right, I'm trying to catch up here.

Okay. Cuz I'm I'm trying to figure out, honestly, if we can sell the minivan.

>> What year is the minivan? What year?

Well, I had to go for a uh let's see here, a uh 2023,

I think.

Okay. You had to. We got to change the minivan. >> I mean, this could be 30, 40 thousand dollars. I mean, so Okay, so Antoinette

I want to paint you a picture. Yesterday in the show, we had a truck driver, Christopher. He paid off all of his debt.

And he has hundred I mean, tens of

thousands of dollars saved. I mean, he's just absolutely killing it, and he's a truck driver. He was telling us he had a Subaru, brand new, ended up selling it, had some you know, had to take out a small loan because it had gone down, and he was upside down a little bit. Uh bought an $8,000 Lexus. The Lexus gets

hit, he gets a check from the insurance

company for 9,000. He ends up buying a $2,000 car, takes the rest of that, and throws it at the debt, right? So, there's a way to do this, and even someone in your industry We literally just talked to him. He did his debt-free scream yesterday.

Here's the thing, Antoinette.

Okay, so the excuse that I am bad with numbers can't be an excuse anymore, okay? You are an adult, you are smart, you are capable, and we have to get this under control. So, the first thing I need you to do when we hang up is I need you to call the dealership uh or the

credit union wherever you got the loan for the van. Uh I want you to pull up the Credit Karma again, and know exactly exactly which credit cards are out there

and know exactly what you owe on them and companies. I want you to write a list down, and then take your phone and take a picture of it, so you have it documented. Even if you're out and about you have it documented. And then the plan is going to be homeownership is going to be down the line, okay, for you.

Um but I but I think the goal here is to get yourself out of debt. And Antoinette, I would You're more than likely going to have to sell the minivan, okay?

be out of this debt so that you can start saving for retirement. I don't want you driving, you know, have to be a truck driver for the rest of your life. I want you to be able to have a great retirement. And that's not going to be possible with the habits that you've been in.

Not only just financially, actually, but the way you're going about it and your attitude about it. You got to You've got to make the turn. And it can And it's going to be difficult and hard, but you need to get as much facts in front of you as possible because you don't know what you don't know. Are you an independent contractor?

I'm a company driver. I'm not kidding about having a bad memory, and I update

all of my bills every other month. I have a piece of paper that tells me I keep it on a program. I look at every one of them. I see how much interest that they're charging me. I see how much my balance is. And then I tally up my

total debt. I also look at Credit Karma a few times a week. I just have a bad memory. And if I had known that you were going to be asking me this question, I would have had this stuff together. >> Antoinette, you called a money show, my friend. You know what I mean? And so we were We're trying to help. We really are. And so my I know you are. My encouragement to you is that when there

when there is something a big big missing piece and the car loan is that for me right now that I need to I need you to know what it is because I may need you to make a really quick decision to sell it because you know how much the payment is each month?

Yes, the payment is uh $995.

Okay, almost $1,000. How much money do you get paid once a month?

Per month, what are you making?

Probably about 75

hundred. Okay. Okay. And And let me do a quick follow-up, Antoinette, cuz I didn't hear you. That's my fault. Did you say you're independent? And the reason I'm asking this, did you say you're independent? >> for a company. >> Okay, do they have a 401k or some type of retirement program that you can be contributing to?

Yes, but I don't because what what's the point of that at my age? Because you have nothing.

Yeah. >> So, we can run these numbers, but I mean, for the baby steps as we teach them is $1,000 in savings just for basic

emergencies. Baby step two is to pay off your debts smallest to largest. That's why Rachel leaned in there. We want to get the debt out of your life because we just learned that that could save us 900 bucks a month that could be going towards >> could be going towards your retirement.

And and so >> Why would I want a $2,000 beater car?

It's going to break down all the time. Well, you >> Antoinette, a $2,000 beater car doesn't always break down all the time. You can ask Christopher yesterday. He literally had a picture of his, and it runs great.

It's And I'm talking to a person who's super popular. You're in words. Have the ladies pick you up when you're not in the truck. >> a beater car. I don't want a beater car. I don't want a beater car. I want to get all of my family together and take them places. I hear you. Car in it I want a Lamborghini. I'm going to go with that.

Yeah. I don't need the argument. I want to dunk a basketball.

Uh but some things are not going to happen cuz I'm 5'8" and can't jump. You

know, if I want to retire with dignity, I've got to start saving money. And I can't save money if I'm in debt.

>> Hey, Antoinette, I want you to keep listening to the Ramsey Show for real. I want you to listen every single day for the next 6 months. Make that be your goal. Just as you're driving, listen to this show because I want this knowledge to soak in and this way of thinking and the way of life when it comes to money.

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>> [music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. We are here for you to answer your questions about your money, your work, your relationships.

And I'm Ken Coleman, and Rachel Cruze joins me. The phone number is 888-825- 5225. 888-825- 5225. Lindsey is going to join us now right here in our neck of the woods, Nashville, Tennessee. Lindsey, how can we help today?

Hi, thank you for taking my question. Um

I am writing in with a relationship money question, actually. So, back in college, um my parents loaned me about

um $18,000 to go to college. It was $15,000 in principal and $3,000 in interest to

help me pay for college under the agreement that I would pay it off within 3 years of graduation. Um

Fortunately, I was I was able to do that. Um but after listening to many many episodes of your guys' show, um I

feel a little bit, you know, taken advantage of. Um and my question is, is

it worth expressing my feelings to my parents now despite the loan being paid back or do I just accept the lesson, don't borrow from family, and try to do better with my own kids going forward?

Okay, uh I'll start because I think I

represent my colleague here. I don't know that we can answer that question without understanding why it is you think they took advantage of you. Based on what you've laid out You knew what you were getting into, right? >> it doesn't sound like they took advantage of you. So, what are we missing that makes you feel like they took advantage of you?

Correct. So, I I knew um I knew the full amount when I signed for it. Um you know, they told me things like you can go get a loan from a bank, but God forbid something happen while you're paying them back, you know, we're your parents. We would be much more understanding um of that situation should it present itself. And I guess it's the whole charging interest thing um that

I I guess doesn't sit right.

>> Okay, another question.

You've paid this all back as I understand it. Correct? Correct.

[clears throat] Yes. >> When did you When did the the When did the tension arise over the interest? In

the middle of it, before you started paying it back, or after you got done with it? Paying the whole thing. >> after Yeah, more so after I got done with it, you know, >> How long after you got done with it?

Um it was about a year after.

>> What changed? What changed? So, and and I'm digging here on purpose. Rachel, thank you for giving me a little leeway here. It is a very fair question. So, let me explain it to the audience and to you one time, and then I want you to answer this. Mhm. So, you paid it back. You paid back the the full 18,000, and about three grand of it was the interest. Is that what I'm understanding?

It was 18, three of it was interest.

>> That's what I'm saying. So, okay. So, you paid it all back, all right? And a year after you paid it back,

at some point, at some day,

a year after you paid it back, this started to bother you. So, that tells me something happened. What happened, or dare I ask who happened?

Um so, it I I got married um a year

after a little over a year after I graduated college. And my husband and I were talking about it, and he was shocked that they charged me interest and thought it was horrible that a parent would charge a child interest on a loan. Hm. And you believed him all of a sudden.

Yes. >> Had it occurred to you before his comment that that might be a horrible, despicable thing in someone else's eyes?

Be honest. Sure.

It had occurred to you.

You're telling me at some point you're like, this I appreciate what my parents are doing, but I think this is a little This is a bit shady, though.

>> no, no, no. Sorry. Sorry. I I misunderstood your [clears throat] question. >> I know. I'm I'm I'm playing lawyer. I watch too many television shows. Here's my point. The the husband said this, and because of his understandable influence on you, and probably just by his sheer

reaction, which he's, by the way, has every right to his opinion, this totally shifted everything. So, I'm going to get out of the way and let Rachel weigh in, but I'm going to tell you my opinion now. I've gotten everything I need to know, >> [laughter] >> okay? So, my opinion is it's too late, and I don't think there was any tension or resentment at all until your hubs

opened his mouth. He has every right to open his mouth. He has every right to opine on what your parents did. I don't like how he said it because I think he should have been wiser and more mature.

And if he was on the phone, I'd tell him this. He has every right to his opinion, but he's now created some tension and resentment after the fact and and only

from his point of view. And so, for that

reason, no, I don't think you should bring it up to your parents.

And I think you need to figure out how to process this. Maybe it's therapy.

Uh but to create tension now

uh to me seems foolish. Yeah, I think I

think what's hard for me, Lindsey, where it does not feel like they took advantage of you is because everything was up front. If you had called and and

we've had these calls of people called they said, "Oh my gosh, we pulled my credit report after I got married to buy a house and I had a student loan on there. My parents took out a loan." "I remember signing papers at 18, but they never told me." You know, that's deceitful. Um people parents that um that loan with strings attached that we'll give you this money maybe for a down payment on a house, but you guys have to live this close to us. We have to see the grand You know, there's strings attached in relationships.

It's kind of gross. Like this sounds like even though we're not for You're exactly right. We are not for family members loaning money, period. But the way they did it, Lindsey, it was it sounded very clear, very up front.

And the reason they did it from what I hear is they did it from a situation that a it's less risk with the loan being held to them.

We're going to charge you And now if the three if the $3,000 um was unreasonable interest, right? If they're charging you 50% interest and they're taking advantage of you, that's gross and weird. But did they do that?

>> the average interest rate and they just said, "Hey, just just do the loan with us Yeah. because if something happens," their words, "will we can give you grace period." Like it won't hurt you financially. >> Um you know, that's the reason they did it. It wasn't a mathematical you're going to get a deal for from us.

We're going to give you this half off. So So Lindsey, I don't think they took advantage of you. I think >> You knew exactly what you were signing up for and I think that the reason they did it was so that a bank wasn't involved, but it wasn't a financial [clears throat] deal on their end. It was just a hey, here's this.

Did they charge you the going rate on interest?

Well, no. So it would have been um about

what what is that? 20% maybe? It was $1,000 for every $5,000 that I borrowed

from them. Okay. All right. 20% Yeah, so that's a little bit That's a little steep actually. >> Are your parents super tight?

Yes, very. Okay. So I I actually I'm

glad you brought this up, Rachel.

Sorry, I know I was diving in a little bit. Not try truly interrupting cuz I don't like that. >> Go, Ken. Go. What? >> Okay. Well, I personally wouldn't charge my kid interest. Mhm.

>> And then again, we don't loan our kids money. Nor am I going to. >> Right. >> But I'm trying to put myself in this. So it Remember the little classic, we tell you what we would do. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

>> do it, but if I'm sticking myself in I I think it's a little tight. I think it's a little tight.

>> But they didn't do anything >> advantage is a really That's strong language. >> like that language. >> it was deceitful or something. >> think they did. I am going to say though, Lindsey, I So I have another follow-up question. I can't wait for Rachel to get involved in this potentially. So the timeline for all of our viewers and listeners here, a quick review. It was a year after you paid it off that hubs and you have the conversation. He gets He gets upset and it affects you.

How much time between that first moment where he makes the comment and this phone call today? How much time has passed?

Uh years. We've been married for almost 3 years. Oh, wow. Okay. >> That really concerns me. I was very intrigued by this. So here we are.

Are you saying 3 years ago is when he first got alarmed and you started questioning this deal? 3 years ago?

>> Yes. All right. Yes. So you've been sitting on this for 3 years.

>> the loan's been paid off for 3 years as well. Four.

Loan's been paid off for four.

>> you. Yeah, I got I'm sorry. I'm so into the timeline here. So the question is Rachel, doesn't that concern you? I'm very concerned. >> Concerned? What do you mean that that she's just resentful? >> He's just boiling it up and she's calling us and I'm glad you called us.

Yeah. Lindsey, I would really I Stop talking about it. Get over it.

>> would release it, Lindsey. I really would. I think that yes, they're probably cheap to a degree like you said. >> Probably. Yeah, they're cheap. Okay.

>> time. But they but they didn't do anything deceitful. You knew exactly what you were signing up for. And so I think it's one of those things that again thankfully you had the money to pay them back and all of it, but the the [music] deal is like this isn't this is another reason, right? Why we don't loan money. So I'm glad you've been watching the show, Lindsey, cuz you're exactly right. This is [music] I would do this cuz it does feel weird.

And it's not only does it feel weird cuz you owe your parents money when we talk about that, but it's also weird in this situation when you look back and you're like, "Oh, gross. I don't like how that felt." So like >> [music] >> all of that is standard and justified.

>> Show.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, let's go to Jessica now who joins us in Columbia, South Carolina.

Jessica, how can we help?

Yes. So my what question is I was a

victim of identity theft. I found out at 18 my mom had been using my social security number since I was 2 years old.

Um found out at 18 when I went to go get

a car and they wouldn't even touch me with the co-sign and I was with an 800 credit score. No money down. Found out I had 800 uh

$186,000 in credit card debt just alone.

Wait, a 100 Wait, say that again, Jessica. 100 and what?

$186,000 in credit card debt.

>> That your mom racked up?

Yes. >> Oh, Jessica. How long ago was this? Oh my word. I mean, all the way back to 2005. The most recent one was in 2021.

Um which was right before I was 18.

And I got it with an attorney and we got my credit wiped, but what left what it left me with was zero credit history and horrible credit score. Mhm. Not even a not even a secure credit card will touch me now.

Um I have a significant other. We're not married, but we have gone to plenty of financial advisers and we have been told both that our best option is to get married because again, I can't get even a credit card in my name. I'm an authorized user on only one card I can't be an authorized user on a lot of other credit cards. >> Jessica, slow down. I'm stuck. Slow No, you're not actually. This is going to be a great call for you because you're not stuck. But quick question here.

Uh and Rachel's going to give you some amazing guidance here. I promise you.

Mhm. But why are financial advisers telling you that the best thing to do is to get married? Cuz that feels like a financial reason, not a good reason to get married. So I want to dig into that first. What are What are we trying to accomplish? Yes, they always say um sign if I can't.

And I don't have a car in my name. I can't get a car of my own. We share my partner's car. We moved up here to South Carolina from Southwest Florida away from my grandmother and to live up here near my father. And I work from home which isn't a big deal, but our biggest issue right now is we have one car.

Okay. All right, slow down. Slow down.

I'm stuck. So you're not you're not stuck. This is This is the theme of this call. I know. All right, I'm just going to ask a quick question here. Rachel, I'll get out of your way, but but I want to ask a question here.

Yes. What do you do for a living and how much do you make? Can I have a quick follow-up? So give me the real quick stats. What do you do and how much do you make? I'm currently a debt collector for Advance America and I'm currently making about after commission 18 to 19 an hour, 40 hours a week. >> All right. So if if you could save up money for let's say you could save up $10,000.

I don't care how long it takes you.

Could you buy a car without a credit card? Could you buy a car with $10,000 cash? Yes or no?

Yeah, most definitely. I mean, there's plenty of good vehicles for >> price. >> So So I'm challenging some of your thinking here. I want to get Rachel's going to guide you here, but I I want to challenge this idea that you're stuck because you have no credit score and that you have to get married in order to have a car. Yeah.

>> You have a job and you can go buy a $5,000 car, a $7,500 car. I just want to

make sure you catch that.

Are you >> Definitely. Most definitely. >> All right. I want to get out of the way, Rachel, cuz I know you got some questions, but my >> I mean the paradigm shift that you have to have, Jessica, is a pretty big one because everything you've been talking about so far on this call has to do with how do I live my life around having a great credit score.

And actually, you called the Ramsey Show and we're the opposite. We actually >> Yeah. don't care about the credit score because primarily you use a credit score to go into more debt is what And that And you're finding that out. When you're trying to go get a car loan, they won't give it to you cuz you have a bad credit score.

You try to go deeper into debt with a credit card, they won't give you a credit card cuz of that. So, living debt-free, this is actually a gift, Jessica.

Most people who are listening right now could go apply for a credit card. You don't have the option. So, see that as a blessing because I don't want it as an option for you, even if you have a great credit score. So, how do we live life debt-free?

Well, number one, starting out, your biggest need is what you're saying is a car. I almost think your biggest need is maybe a new job. As a debt collector, that can't be a very fun job. So, I wouldn't condone even thinking Yeah.

Yeah, you're limited there. I think you can do some really great work, Jessica, and I think you can work overtime. Do you have kids? Yes, I do not.

I don't So, Jessica, I would make no kids.

Like, I mean, we're just going on the basics here. Everything else is going to go to save up for a car. And maybe $5,000 is your goal, whatever it may be, cuz you don't Do you have Do you have any consumer debt in your name?

No. No, it's all Okay, so and you're fighting this whole $186,000, right?

Well, we we we successfully sued the credit bureau and it got wiped 100%.

Okay, yes. Do you have any savings?

Currently, no. Um we just used our savings to move and, you know, get out

of South Florida because the jobs there weren't any good. Um and we're currently trying I'm trying to get back into college. I have one semester left to get my associate's, but again, my mother messing with my identity has affected my tax forms to getting grants and loans.

Oh. You don't need a loan to get one more Okay, but listen, listen, Jessica, you don't need a loan to get one more semester paid for. And I think your your [clears throat] remaining semester of your associate's degree is secondary to

what Rachel is saying, which is let's get some money saved, let's get on a budget, and let's buy a car. Cuz, Jessica, we we have people call the show all the time and they're trying to get out of debt. And so, when we talk about getting out of debt, for instance, we say you cut everything and you work extra. And we have people very nor- I mean, in a very uh normal rhythm on this show that are making an extra um thousand, twelve hundred dollars above their income on side hustles.

So, let's just make it a goal for you, and especially since you don't have kids, be like, "Hey, evenings, I'm working." Like, whether you're waiting tables, I mean, you are doing something. And let's just go crazy and let's say you earn an extra uh let's go two grand a month.

That means, sitting right now, where we are in the calendar, by July August, you could have a car.

By betwe- depending on how much that one semester costs you, between now and December, after you have a car, another couple of months of working extra, you could have saved, you know, six, eight thousand dollars for your tuition. So, that's like that's literally between now and the end of the calendar year, Jessica. So, like, it is possible. You just have to make some really big goals and you have to um not

that you're playing victim to this by any means, but don't be but don't be leaning on the on the credit industry to get you out. Jessica, you can get you out. We're fed our whole lives that credit is what matters. I mean, again, we moved up here with the intent to buy a home and we found out quickly that I couldn't be on it. And I guess that's really what debt is for. >> you don't need to buy a home with someone you're not married to, either, Jessica. So, Or get married. Or get

married at the advice of a financial advisor so you can get a car. All right, now, listen uh listen to this. I just found this is in the Columbia, South Carolina area, okay? Mhm. I just found a 2009 Toyota Camry, 182,000 miles, which on a Camry it might

as well be a new car, okay? That car can go for $482. Oh, I Oh, I know. All right, listen to this. $3,700 they want for this car. You walk up there with $3,200 in $100 bills And

that's two months. and say, "Guys, this is what I'm going to pay you for this car." They'll give it to you so fast your head will spin. No credit Do you hear me? Yes, I do. I've I've had plenty of I mean, my first car was an '05 Civic.

Okay, so Jessica, okay, so I Okay, so I want to know for you cuz I we've thrown out a couple of things, whether it's cars or college or um not buying a house

with someone you're not married to. And your rebuttal to us this whole call has been, "Oh, I know. Oh, I know." I know.

But why Why are you then still dabbling in this idea like, "I can't get credit card, I can't get a car loan, I can't get a student loan." Because you're saying you know, but you're still giving it an option. Why? No, I I think it's just more so again, I mean, we I mean, my whole family is I I mean, obviously, they're not you know, they got their own troubles, but the whole thing is to, you know, to have great credit and to not have this negative stuff dragging behind you. And even though I got my credit history wiped, you know, everything nowadays they want to pull some type of credit.

If you pay cash Buy now, pay later is horrible, Jessica. Like, that's why I'm telling you you don't need to worry about those stuff. You don't know. I know. No, you stop saying you know. It's more so the the knowing the availability and Yes, but you only need it, Jessica. You really only need it to go into debt. And that's what we're telling you is Pay cash.

>> Just pay cash for everything and you don't have to worry about it. And if some cell phone company pulls up your credit report, you can just show them the police report and be fine. Like, you you can get away with other things, but you you have to be convicted [music] about this, Jessica, or you're going to keep getting pulled. I feel like you're getting pulled into it even though you're saying I know.

So, you need to stand firm, pay cash for anything. It is possible, Jessica. You can [music] do this. And keep things separate from the boyfriend right now and live your life, get yourself a car, save up for [music] the semester, get your college degree, and ride off into the sunset, and then maybe get married cuz you love him, not because of his credit score.

She's been hypnotized.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Rachel, the all-new EveryDollar is here, and folks, it is truly way more than just our world-class budgeting app. I've been talking about this on the show. I I got a meeting with the team, and I said, "Show me all the Just take me in the thing. Give me Give me a tour." And it's amazing.

It's literally like a digital version of us on the show for those who call in. First 15 minutes of answering the questions that the team provides you in this app, they're going to help you find thousands of dollars immediately in savings.

it. You can start EveryDollar for free by going to the App Store, Google Play.

Uh tons of advanced features, not just budgeting. Now, that's amazing, but the fact that you've got a digital coach, mentor, accountability partner, whatever you want to call it, all those facets are in there, fantastic. So, you got to go check it out. And give it a whirl, it's free.

And I'm going to tell you you're going to love it. Donna is up next in West Virginia. Donna, how can we help? Hi, uh Ken and Rachel.

Um I I love all the personalities, but Ken, I'm really glad you're there today. I love the way you spin a tale. You really make me chuckle. And I love your your story from a few weeks ago about the welfare chicken.

I grew up on a farm and can relate [laughter] to that. Thank you. Yes, thank you. The welfare chicken.

>> You didn't get in trouble for telling them to sell the chicken. I think I was on there with you during that. >> get in trouble, and uh I had forgotten about that, Donna. So, thank you.

That's really fun. Thank you, you're a sweet lady.

Oh, jeez. Uh Romney. Okay, do >> Do you know that town? I I think I've heard of it. Do you know Point Pleasant by any chance? Oh, that's way far away.

We're We're in the panhandle between Winchester, Virginia Oh, yeah. and Cumberland, Maryland. >> Yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. I was born in that little teeny town of Point Pleasant, West Virginia.

>> Okay. I know where it is. I've been there. Well, I got to tell you, not many people have.

Yeah, that's right. It's across the state. But All right, Donna. Uh my sister from another mister here in West Virginia, how can we help today?

Well, I'm I'm 69 and my husband is almost 71, and um we started our careers

in the '70s, and at that time, people were saying, "Oh, you're so lucky. You have a pension. You'll have social security. You don't have to worry about retirement." So, we didn't. Uh and we're

doing fine now with our pension and our our uh social security, but we haven't saved a lot of money. And we had to put my mother a nursing home um last year,

an extended care nursing home, and it really scared me and shocked me at the cost per month for that stay. And what

my question is today, and I've I've been having friends tell me, you know, you need to sign your house over to your kids uh uh to save it from being taken and and all of this, and I know Dave says that

you shouldn't do that. I have heard him.

I haven't heard him talk a lot about that, but I have heard him say that. And I was just wondering what the pros and cons are to that, and if there if

there's no pros, what can we do, or is there something we can do to save our house? Well, let's let's go back a step. What are we what are we a fear What are we afraid that's going to happen that would even uh allow us to consider that advice?

What are you afraid's going to happen?

Oh, it for the uh signing your house over? >> Yeah. Oh, well, there's I guess a lot of

things. I mean, I've been listening to the Sto- Stewart uh show long enough that uh I know if you have kids, then anything happens to your kids, then then that can if they're in an accident or uh

anything like that uh Yeah, but you're talking about you but you're talking about your I'm talking about my house. Yes.

>> And and your house that my husband and I own. Sure. And you're worried you're going to lose it to who or why? Oh,

Medi- Medicare. I mean, if you can't pay if you go into a nursing home >> Oh, Medicaid's going to look at possessions. They're going to be looking at your Okay. Now now we're caught up.

Sorry. We we weren't 100% sure what Yeah, and the reason we do we say that is because a little bit it feels like you're hiding assets when you just sign it over when I mean, I don't >> I know. So, yeah, not a great not a great thing because you're basically lying to the government that you don't have an asset when you really do. So,

um okay, do you have long-term care insurance, Donna? We do, but I got it uh it's been

probably before I realized the cost. My father-in-law went into just an assistant living, and his was about $3,500 $4,000 a month. So, when we got our long-term care, it was very expensive anyway cuz I have some health issues, so it was high. And ours is only 3,000 a month. Okay. >> my mom's came up, and it was 14,500 a month, and I'm like I just I was just in shock that it was that expensive.

>> um okay, so a couple of things to think about that we don't know yet cuz how old are you guys? Uh I'm 69, my husband's 71. So, a lot of

different things. Um number one, you don't know if you guys are going to need a nursing home anyways.

Uh number two, if you did get to a point of a nursing home, um you know, there are things you can do. You can sell the house and use that to fund if you need to.

Um you there's also What What are you guys doing with your pension and all of that?

What What do you have coming in? Uh for per month? You mean what we have?

We have uh it's like $9,942.

Okay. So, I mean, it's it's decent, and we did just start 2 years ago we have started putting some away. Uh we both both bought I bought us

and my husband a spou- I'm still working a little bit. >> Okay. >> And I made enough money to be able to max out both uh Roth for me and a

spousal Roth for my husband. I did that when we got we got one of your uh pros.

Good. Great. And um he he said to get

one We got him in April, and he said, "Oh, hurry up and get a Roth before April 15th, 2024." >> right. So, we did that, and then when we finally sat down with him, we had enough money saved to do another one for 2025.

Wonderful. So, what do you have total?

What do you guys have total? We have uh 32,000 in uh Roth right now. And then we were

playing around just during the years, and we have about 50 that our uh

financial advisor is rolling over about 50,000 that he's rolling over into IRAs

now that we're still in with the companies that we retired from.

>> So, just below 100,000, and then what is your house worth?

About 400,000. Okay.

Yeah, so it would be one of these things if you guys did get into that situation,

whether it's the insurance, um some savings, you know, whatever you can put together um to get into a nursing home. And I'll be honest on it, this sounds it sounds horrible, but there is a stat that once you enter into a nursing home for on average, it's there's not that long of a stay usually.

Sometimes it is, sometimes it's not either. So, it is kind of one of the last steps that family members will take if they're not able to care for um you know, their family member. And and so, that would be kind of that that last step, if you will. So, if I was in your shoes, I may ask about upping the long-term care.

I'm just curious what other options are out there for you guys. Um I would be looking at that cuz that's going to be very helpful type of insurance for you all if the time comes that you need in-house care, nursing home, all of it. And you guys also are sitting on a great asset. And you know what I mean?

If something were to happen to either you or your husband, and you did get to a point that you guys didn't have the money to cash flow it, and yet there was a nursing home that you knew when he needed to be in, you know, him or yourself, there's always the possibility of selling the house, you know, and figuring out what to do there. So, Um Donna, I'm going to give you something Rachel made a great point. I looked it up. Uh the average length of stay in a nursing home is 485 days.

Now, of course, this varies, but averages do play out.

So, you know, it's horrible to but that's the reality, and we're talking about that. So, you know, between the pension and everything, I mean, Rachel, you make a very good point. It it's not like you got to fund this crazy amount for 5 years.

You know, so um I think you guys are doing everything you can. What How much longer do you think you're going to work?

Um as long as I can. I love it. Okay.

>> work full-time? No. No, I do occasionally.

Um I'm a teacher, and uh sometimes I'll take a long-term sub job, and sometimes right now I'm just doing day-to-day, and I love it.

>> love when Donna shows up to be the sub.

You seem like a really nice sub. Yeah. I hope they do. They always say they do, but you know. Well, that's good. And what about your husband? Is he officially done working or still working? >> Yes. No, he's officially done. He's a golfer. He's he's [laughter] fallen into the golf I love it.

Good for him. Well, at least there's a little bit of a foreshadowing of watching your mom and how expensive it has been for or your mom or your dad, um that you guys can start planning that if that time were to come, how [music] would we be able to cash flow that. So, thanks for the call, Donna. Uh do we know if people can search welfare chickens uh on Spotify or YouTube and find that rant?

Do we know? We don't know. I'm sure you can try. Well, they can't.

Oh, you all missed it. It was really great.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Alongside Rachel Cruze, I'm Ken Coleman.

Thanks for being with us. We're here for you. 888-825-5225

is the phone number. Let's go to Caitlyn, who joins us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Caitlyn, how can we help?

Hi, good afternoon. Um I'm a recent college graduate from West Virginia University, and I will start

paying student loan debt in January, and

I want to know what is the best and effective way to go about that. How much student loans do you have?

They will be around $26,000.

And is it multiple loans?

Yes. Okay, so what's the smallest amount?

Uh the smallest amount, I believe, is about $5,000.

Okay. All right, so what we Is that the only debt you have?

Yes, that is the only debt I have. All right. Rachel, walk her through the baby steps. >> you working?

Yes, ma'am. I work a um full-time job.

Great. How much do you make a month? How much do you bring in?

Um about a month, maybe maybe $1,500 a month. A month. Okay, what are you doing?

Um I work at a um boutique.

A boutique. Okay. >> of boutique?

Um a women's boutique, just a locally owned. Like a spa?

No, like a clothing store. Women's clothing. Oh.

>> [laughter] >> Sorry, little slow on that.

I was like, well, there's lots of different boutiques. There's like boutique hotels, boutique spas. Sorry. Fair. Okay. None of this matters. Why do you Why I have a question on what your income Yeah. That is for a college grad, that is way below what your expectations were, I'm guessing. Yes or no?

Yes, so I've had this job for about 2 years. I worked this job throughout college, and that is the job I'm still currently at. >> Okay, what did you get your degree in?

Uh business and marketing. So, what do you want to do? And I'm not going to put you under pressure here on a show live, but give me a general idea. It doesn't have to be a company and a title, but describe the work that you went to school for that you would love to have if I could just wave my pencil in the air and give it to you.

Well, the work I would be interested in is going into law school.

Okay. So, we went for business and marketing and we're like, "Eh, this is not what I want to do, but I'm just going to finish it." And then somewhere along the way we discovered, "I want to be a lawyer in a specific type of lawyer." Um corporate law, sir. Corporate law.

Okay, so a tie into the business and marketing.

Yes. Okay, what's law school going to cost you?

Law school is probably going to cost me around probably $100,000.

And where are you going?

I have not yet made my decision, um but I'll be taking the LSAT soon.

Okay, great. I want to make a quick commercial and I'll hand it to Rachel and but you got to get your Two things.

Number one, you need to get your income up. Right, right. >> making you should be making double.

>> I don't even care what you're doing. Yeah. At this point, you need to target a $40,000 Let's just put it out there. I don't want to limit you to that. But you you just need to get out there and find something cuz more cash the better. Now, uh and Rachel tell you what to do with that cash. But I just want to make a point on the LSAT. Um years ago I interviewed a a law school expert on this and this is a fact, by the way.

There are certain schools, you're going to have to do your homework on this, but you can figure it out easily, that based on your LSAT score, Rachel, if you get a high enough LSAT score, they will give you a full ride. And the reason is these aren't the prolific ones. Let me just go ahead and tell you.

>> Sure. This isn't Harvard.

>> It's not the big time schools. These are the schools who nobody wants to go to their law school, so therefore they're trying to get people into their law school cuz they want lawyers out there and they will give full ride. So, these are going to be smaller schools, not as well known, but they have legit law schools and let me just make my my pitch on this. Nobody cares where you got your law degree from. And so the the trade-off is, Caitlin, you have to pay for the LSAT.

And if you need to take the LSAT five times, take it. If we're aiming for and we feel

like the tutors will tell you, Mhm. "We can get you to the score which gets you a free ride." So, that's my commercial.

Yeah, it's worth investing, you know, five, six grand or it would be like in a like honestly, when you think about it.

Totally. >> With tutors and everything. >> know what the current LSAT cost is, but >> degree for free. So. Yeah, so that's what you need more money for. Yes.

>> Plus we got to pay off these loans. So, Rachel, tell her how we pay off these loans. >> that needs to be your way to law school, Caitlin. I really want you to Yeah. See that because you're going to be $126,000

in debt if you don't. So, we want to really work hard to avoid all those student loans. Um yeah, so it's getting your income up, Caitlin. So, I mean I really hate to say it, but I I mean I would probably be looking for another job.

I think it was a great thing to get you through college. But now that you're a college grad, you know, you made that investment for a reason.

my expenses. I would live on nothing and I would make it a goal to get this paid off in 18 months, 16 months, 14 months, you know, and so and I really think you can.

If you um do you have rent? Are you living at home? What's your living status?

Um I live at home with my family.

>> Okay, so no rent.

So, I would take full advantage and make a really, really aggressive goal of getting this paid off and then at the same time be looking at the LSAT stuff and make that also a part-time job. So, I don't know if it's a I don't know right now if it's a full-time job that you go and find, you know, a receptionist, I mean anything.

Like just go and answer phones. I mean do something.

>> Mhm. Or if you do the boutique during the day and you wait tables at night and you're doing a two two-day a you know, a two job a day kind of thing to double this income, but this income needs to be doubled, Caitlin. You're a college grad and I think that you have you have things to offer and and again it's it's kind of back to this college degree conversation that you got your degree for a reason to go and create a career

and and so taking that knowledge and going and doing that and upping this income is going to be is going to be your number one goal. >> Because Caitlin, here's the deal. You you are young enough and this debt is small enough that you can pay this off in a year.

But you got to make more income to be putting two grand a month away. So, like Rachel said, what must be true for me to

be able to sock two grand, $2,500 a

month away at the $26,000 loan? Knock

that out. Mhm. And get it out of the way before the interest starts hurting you.

Okay? Um because I know people that are that have your amount of loan debt and they're paying it for 15, 20 years because they're never catching up cuz the interest payment.

So, you want to get this out of your life and I just I'm telling you if you trust me and you do your research, you can go to law school for free or for a very reduced amount that you can cash flow. And most people don't know that. And please do that because you're going to just be so much more at peace. So, there's your homework assignment.

Pretty straightforward, but you got to hustle. Yep. Mhm. So, thanks for the call.

You know, Rachel, that is um I love when we get that call and I and I'll be honest, I've not interviewed people in other lanes, but I I would almost bet you there's other professional lanes like that that where certain schools are going, you know, like med schools are going, "We want to get people in here." And the sticker price on a Vanderbilt, which is in the shadow of our campus here, Yep. versus a small school, >> Totally, yes. And it's an in it's an ego play to go to a the say someone's like, "Hey, where's Where are you going to law school?" And it's a Yeah, Harvard Law School.

That maybe Yeah, and or you're going to one that no one's ever heard of. It take I mean you got to have some humility to it. But you're doing it in a wise way. You know what I mean?

And so there's something so smart about >> really comes up. Your clients aren't going to go, "Hey, uh I've heard rumors that you got your law degree from Greenbrier State. Is that true?" >> school, law school, med school. I bet George Camel when he had to took his dogs into the vet, he didn't say, "Let me see your degree before." He said, "Save my dogs." That was all [music] last week, so.

That poor guy.

That [laughter] poor guy and his dogs.

It's like a soap opera around here, folks. We don't have time to cover it.

We'll have him cover it, George, if he hosts here in the next week.

>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruze joins [music] me and we are here for you. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

We want to help you win in your relationships, in your work, and in your money. And speaking of winning with your money, you know, a lot of people right now, Rachel, are watching what is the Fed going to do. We've seen the interest rates on mortgages come down a little bit off of several year high and everybody's going, "Do I buy?

Do I sell right now? What do I do?" And we've got some great advice for them. >> Yeah, and even in the this showed, Ken, I feel like we've had a lot of home questions even about like, "Hey, what what's my next step?" Well, the the goal

is to make your home and home ownership a blessing, not a burden. And so if you are in a place where you're like, "Okay, I'm thinking about selling, I'm thinking about buying, maybe I'm a first-time home buyer." You know, having that 5% down payment is crucial.

Um a 15-year fixed-rate mortgage is what we recommend and for your payments be no more than 25% of your take-home pay.

It's kind of always been our formula for for decades, regardless of what the housing market is doing, that just keeps your household budget in a good spot.

But finding a house and specifically finding an agent that you trust who's really incredible and of high caliber in this area is really important. So, the Ramsey Trusted Program really is the only way to find an agent that you can trust to keep you on track with what we teach here at Ramsey and they're going to get the best offer on your house or is going to help you find the right house.

Ramsey Trusted Agents have years of experience and will help you make wise decisions when it comes to pricing, the marketing, or in choosing the right offer as well if you're getting multiple offers. So, to find a Ramsey Trusted Real Estate Agent for free, go to ramseysolutions.com/agent.

And again, use this resource, you guys, because this is home buying for majority of people it's the largest investment you make in your personal finance your personal finances. So, do it well and do it right with an agent that that we trust so that you can trust as well. So, ramseysolutions.com/agent.

>> Yeah, good stuff. All right, let's get back to the phones. Kansas City is where we're going to go and Jerry's there. Jerry, how can we help?

Uh yes, my question relates to the

national public data breach and what

sort of steps uh should I be taking to kind of make sure my social security isn't used to open a line of credit with

that or what what you know, what kind of things should I expect to do? Yeah, um I mean there's a there's a couple things, Jerry. You know, number one, you can just freeze your credit. If you're not currently in debt or using debt, you can do that.

That's a that's a line of protection, but having identity theft insurance >> Yes, yes, yes. >> is really, really key. It's really inexpensive and so I would recommend going to zander.com. Zander's who we use.

They actually they that's one of the benefits here at Ramsey Solutions is every every team member gets um identity theft as part of working here. That's how much we believe in it because stuff like this is going to happen more and more. Um so yeah, honestly, I would go to yeah, zander.com and check out their identity theft protection um and I would I would get a policy on you. I'd get a policy of every person in your household, honestly, too because even kids we're seeing identity theft, you know, happening within kids as well and people running up stuff on their credit and I mean it's just it is wild.

So, I would do that. There's a number here on our screen that you can call as well.

356-4282.

Uh and yeah, that's what I would do personally, Jerry. And I And then I mean, that's as That's as much offense as I know to do, Ken, uh on this unless something does happen, then you do have to take action. But if you have identity theft protection, uh they go in and do a lot for you. >> So, just to kind of catch people up who may not know the story here.

And Jerry, I'm glad you bring this up.

That's me, Rachel. That's That's all of you. And uh so, there is a a notorious

hacking group that's that has claimed to have stolen uh a ton of information. And so, this has been uh reported uh across a lot of news networks and and you can find this story. So, It happened what, 2 weeks ago? Yeah, just last week, actually. >> week, okay. Yeah, so uh so, that's what you can do. This is how you kind of check. So, do that freeze. Do exactly what Rachel said until you can check everything and then go get protected with Xander. Xander

Insurance, xander.com, 800-356-4282.

That's 800-356-4282,

xander.com.

And uh they do a great job. We get an email every month tells us we're good or what might be something we need to check into. And uh that protection is And there's other services like DeleteMe and other places, too, um that that are incredible for for online scammers, as well. So, identity theft protection, again, you guys, it protects your identity, social security, all of that.

But then you think about how much our how much our information, not necessarily social security number, but just your address, your phone number. I mean, all this. I'm getting blown up political All the political stuff. And I'm like, where did my number get sold to?

Like, what list is, you know, is this to?

So, whether it's, you know, your your shipping something to, you know, or buying something, whatever it is. It's just you are I mean, it feels like I'm I'm putting in my information a lot on websites. >> the way, in just in the overabundance of giving you all information, the three credit bureaus that Rachel's talking about again, Experian, Equifax, and TransUnion. You just get It's a free deal. Call them or do it online.

>> You can put Yeah. And put a freeze on your credit. And uh and and and that will >> your report once a year, you guys, regardless of whether it's a data breach or not. Make sure you pull your And you can do that for free. Yeah. Um once a year. So, use those each of those companies and yeah, get three reports three times a year. All right. Let's uh let's go to John now in Los Angeles.

John, how can we help?

Hey there. How's it going, guys? Good. How are you?

Pretty good.

How can we help? >> So, um yeah, so I've been in college pretty much all my life. I'm about uh 33. I'll be graduating with a PhD next year.

My wife just graduated, so she started working. So, it's the first time we really have a real income in a shovel.

So, we have $100,000 in debt, no retirement uh savings.

And we kind of want to look into buying a house with next year when I graduate.

>> No. But we're not really Sure.

>> Yeah. No, John. No.

No, John. We're interrupting cuz you're not catching. No. >> No, no, no. Um Okay, John, what are y'all going to be making? Household income together, combined?

So, right now, today, combined, we make

170. Okay. When I start working, it should be 230. Great.

>> When I finish my post-doc cuz I still need a little bit more, it should be about 280 in about 3 years. 3 years,

okay. But in the next 4 months, 6 months, what will it be?

Uh still 170 while I'm finishing up my PhD. >> And when will it bump up to 230?

How long? Uh when I uh find a job, probably next summer. So, probably >> 12 months. Okay. >> September next year, yeah. Is the debt all student loans?

It's 60,000 in student loans, 40,000 in car loans. Oh. Okay. What's the car breakdown? What do you owe on each car?

It is 17 and 23,000.

Okay. >> Both pay off in about 4 years.

Yeah. Um Okay. How are you guys You guys currently are making 170, though, right?

Is what you said.

Um Yeah, so take home is 10,000 a month.

Okay. And basic necessities is between 3

and 4,000. >> Okay. So, my >> There's a lot of room there to tackle it. >> Yeah. For sure. Yeah, yeah. No, you guys have a great income, which I'm so thankful for and it will continue to go up. Yeah, I think my goal, John, for you guys, if I was you between now and next summer, um is I would be working on these car loans. And you may run some numbers and see what could you sell the 17 for? The $17,000 one.

Uh they would both break even. So, I was just looking at it. Okay. And Cuz I just think >> They we owe pretty much exactly what we can trade in. Okay. Okay. You know, I mean, to jump-start this, um I mean, it you're not overly heavy in cars by any means from our, you know, um math when it comes to to when we look at car debt versus income.

Um but I would I would make it a goal, yeah, John, to to be cash flowing the rest of your school.

I would make it a goal to start paying off that smallest debt. So, even if it's a a small student loan, more than [music] before the car, you know, just start working that debt snowball, working the smallest debt to the largest debt. And then be saving an emergency fund. And then I would save for a down payment on a home.

But But I'm really encouraged, though, cuz your numbers, you guys can make some significant progress really fast if you stay focused and you guys have a plan. So, tonight, lay out a timeline between now [music] and the next 3 years and have some data points to say, yep, we want the car so, you know, paid off here. We want this student loan paid off here. And And you kind of map it [music] out to know that you guys will get to a saving to a down payment ASAP, which is where I want you guys.

Thanks for the call. Thanks for the call, John. We'll be back.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruze joins me. I'm Ken Coleman and you are listening and watching The Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us.

888-825-5225 is the number. Stephanie is joining us now in Los Angeles. Stephanie, how can we help?

Hi. Um happy birthday, Rachel. >> Yay. Oh, thanks, Stephanie. I appreciate that. You're welcome. Um okay, so I am a

single mother of two girls. I've been a single mom for a long time now and um

I own a business. I'm a professional organizer. Um and I actually like coach

um families on how to like keep their lives together. Well, I just am really struggling financially. Um I ended up having to get a full-time job. I Long story short, my savings just got drained when I put employees on payroll out here in California. It's super expensive and um anyway, so I just I don't know the first thing about like good budgeting. I did not grow up. My parents like filed

bankruptcy three times. And I'm just trying to um set up a future for my children and I just want to get out of debt. So, I need some advice and I want to sell my car and yeah. Yeah.

Okay, I got a quick question before Rachel dives in cuz she can walk you through this, but I'm just curious. How does a person who is really good at teaching other people to be organized not figure out how to do a [clears throat] budget? I'm not saying that in a judgmental way.

No. Um so, I know how to

stick with a budget. What happened was I was going uh a custody battle came up in the middle of Okay. everything.

[clears throat] And um then my dad got early onset Alzheimer's. This is all like um in a

short period of time and it just threw me for a loop. And um a lot of my money went into custody. And um then I ended

up taking out an EIDL loan, which I I've

never been um like a credit card person, a loan person. Um I actually kind of got talked into getting a business credit card um for my business. And then cuz I was paying everything cash before that. Um

And the custody battle happened. I put the whole custody battle on my business credit card cuz I was like desperate.

And um So, yeah, this is where I'm at. And I never coached anyone on finances. I coach neurodivergent families how to like set up systems in their home homes like functional and how to like

live purposely in their home. And yeah, so But right now, I just I'm just in

over my head as far as what what to do.

Yeah, economy is not that great right now. >> making in your day job?

So, my full-time job, um I make $19.08

an hour. Um There is It's a sales job. Um I do like interior design. And so, we do get commission on designs, but I've yet to reach that commission because the whole bonus structure is just it doesn't make any sense. You have to sell at least $80,000 between installs or whatever. I don't know. So, I've never reached that and then my organizing job, I have three contractors. So, I

bring in right now it's not really good.

I bring in about maybe 2,000 a month

with that. So, it's but it's just so slow right now

and I just Yeah. I was making pretty good money and now over the last couple years it's just hasn't been that great. Yeah. And then you throw in things like a custody battle in the midst of it and Oh, yeah.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I pay for everything for my kids. Like I don't get any help. I pay for the cars, insurance, everything.

Mhm. Wow. Yeah. Well, let me just say, you know, when it comes to your kids, when it comes to your health, like we are all about fighting the fight, right? I'm like it is you want to you want to do it. Um you know, cuz those those are the important things in life. So, that's I want I want to free you and, you know, not pile on any level of shame. Give yourself a lot of grace. So, okay, so how much debt, Stephanie, do you have?

Do you know?

Yes, so I have my $20,000 EIDL loan that

starts payments will start coming out in October. Okay. Um I owe

almost 9,000 on a credit card.

>> Okay. And then my my car is

I owe about 13,500 on that and then here's like the really hard part for me. Um I got behind on taxes. I just got paralyzed with fear, by the way, but I just I got behind on taxes 3 years.

Those are just finishing up being filed,

so I don't know what I owe on that yet.

Okay. Um so, I'm waiting on that. So, those are my Those are my debts and And

you're making 2,000 for your organization business. I know you're making 19 an hour for what you're doing, but do you How much How much will you bring home a month with that full-time job?

So, each check is about 1,200 and some

change after insurance and all of that.

>> And you get two checks a month? >> Each every 2 weeks. Correct, yeah.

>> Okay. Okay. So, it's a little less than 5 grands and have you been able to map out Are you able to pay your bills, Stephanie? Meaning your your mortgage, food, lights, etc. >> don't even I don't even have a mortgage.

I So, my rent I'm actually in a great situation as far as that goes. I I live in a two-bedroom apartment. It's um 1,200. I like this fuse to move because I'm so like nervous. I wanted to get my push, you know, finances in order first.

So, 1,200 for rent. Okay.

>> Yeah. And then um and then 404 for my car payment. Mhm.

>> of course utilities and all that stuff.

>> How much is How much is your car How much is your car worth? Do you know?

Um I'm not exactly sure. I did look on

like what other people are selling my car my type of car for and I saw anywhere from 15 to 19. Okay.

So, here's what I would suggest. I feel like for you, Stephanie, a good um a good win would be just a quick win to feel some level of traction because you're going to start to make some changes, right? When it comes to your money and those changes are going to be uncomfortable cuz you've never done this before.

debt that's gone. Just gone.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Um and then and then looking

at yeah, your credit card, attacking that next. Um and then the the loan

after that, the $20,000 loan. Now, when your taxes come back, Stephanie, if you can't pay them by the tax deadline, go get a personal loan from the bank. I would rather you have a personal loan than owing the IRS, okay? So, that will be a step. Okay. And what you're going to do is pay off the smallest debts to the largest debts and and again, the car I think would give you some traction. Do you have any savings?

Uh no, my putting employees on payroll just drained my savings. I had about >> Okay, so you have nothing. Okay. >> So, you may want to relook to um I wish we had more time with you.

I would relook maybe the structure of your company. I just I don't I don't know if it's For sure. >> Like I It may be a thing It may be a thing, Stephanie, that you just say yeah, that you that you close it down for now. I mean, like is there something, you know, is there a way um to just take that burden off.

You're just carrying a lot. Yeah.

So, I do not have any employees on payroll anymore. Okay. Um it's all contractor jobs.

I just Yeah, I just contract. But to be honest, I am thinking about just going back to because it is stressful. Like owning a business I've had it since 2016. It's really It's a great business.

We were like all around California as far as like our um uh reputation and stuff, but I just I'm

so stressed about it, so I am thinking about stepping back and just working full-time and, you know, maybe taking on

jobs by myself for like extra income. Um

but as far as selling my car, that was actually what what the reason why I called you. I wanted to see if you thought that that was It's a great idea. I probably would, honestly.

I mean, that would be such a relief not to have that car payment every month.

>> is the payment? >> Yeah. What's the car payment? >> 404. It's uh 404. I mean, 400 bucks a

month. >> Stephanie, how much would you love a $400 raise per month? >> I would love to just like take that 400

and put it into like the rest of my debt and just That's right. No, that's right.

>> If you if you stay on the line, Kelly and Austin are going to pick up. We want to give you Financial Peace University.

It's our nine-lesson course, Stephanie, and EveryDollar Premium, it's our budgeting app. And then also, I'll have them connect you with a financial coach in your area because I know as a single mom, you're juggling a lot and I think sitting down with someone who has the heart of a teacher who can walk through really specific numbers and scenarios and it may only just take one session, [music] but it's better than a you know, 7-minute, you know, chat that we were able to have here on the show.

But we want to connect you with some of that stuff, Stephanie, cuz you're on the right track. You're like right there and you got to just start making those steps and you're going to feel a lot of traction. So, we're excited [music] for you. Cheering you on. We're going to take care of you. Thank you for calling. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Rachel Cruze is with me in studio this hour. 888-825-

5225. 888-825-5225

is the number to jump in. Our scripture today comes from Titus 2 verses 7 through 8. In everything set them an example by doing what is good.

In your teaching show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.

And our quote of the day from Les Paul, don't say you can't until you prove you

can't. All right. How about that? There you go.

There it is. There you go. Thomas is joining us in Asheville, North Carolina.

Thomas, how can we help?

Uh thank you guys so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Uh so, um my father uh has planned a vacation for this summer for the whole family. I'm married, we have two children. My brother's married, he has three children. Um he gave us a little bit of

heads up on it, basically just asking when the kids would be going back to school and then he planned this trip uh for the end of summer. Um we're right in the middle of Baby Step 2. We should be debt-free by looks like November.

Um he's paid for the location and like

lodging and everything.

Um but my main concern is I work like 70 75 hours a week. Wow.

>> I don't have any paid I don't have any paid time off. So, my my main concern is is missing that income um while we're on

this trip.

Um so, I was kind of hoping to get you guys' advice on that. So, before Dad comes to you with this vacation idea, what was the plan? What were you and your wife thinking about summer? No vacation?

Yeah, I mean, we've been we've been busting it just trying to get everything paid off. >> It's gazelle intense. Yeah. So, I'm

going to I'm going to oversimplify it because I think this is the key issue.

You weren't going to go on a vacation and we and we agree with that. You guys are going hard. Man, you're working 70 75 hours a week. That's impressive. And you weren't planning to anyway. Now, Dad's asking you to do it.

>> Wait, I That's what I Not to jump in.

Did he ask or did he tell you guys?

Well, >> Did he say Well, that's that's an interesting part of it. >> little bit of both. You know, like my my brother has children. Our our our children have never met their cousins. He's kind of really loving the whole grandpa role and kind of wants everybody to get together. They're getting a little up there in age, so he kind of looked at it as an opportunity to get the whole family together one last time and have all the grandkids in one place cuz my brother lives 1,000 miles away from where I live, so. Yeah.

I would So, I think Well, I'll tell you what. I'll I'll ask one other question.

I want I want Rachel to see what she says here. Um is he paying for everything or just the lodging? Meaning you guys would have to pay for the travel to get there plus meals?

Um food, he he's handling food and

lodging, um, cuz I'll be doing most of the cooking. That's kind of how it's always worked out as he buys the food and I prepare it. Um, but we, I mean, we'll basically just be responsible for gas to and from. So, it's the, not so much the expense of the trip, but the, the missed income and the extra >> That's right. How many days will you guys be gone?

Uh, six or seven, depending on when we travel back.

All right, the only other question I have is can you, man, you're already working 70, 75 hours.

>> you to have a vacation. >> I, yeah, [snorts] but they weren't planning on it anyway. >> I know what So, so I, this is not so much like an opinion, it's, it's advice. And I think I would,

I would do what you believe is right to do. And I think I know the answer to that. I don't think you want to go, Thomas, right? >> think you do, either.

I, I really do. Um, I really want my kids to meet their cousins and I really want, you know, my parents the opportunity to have all their grandkids in one place because they're you know, two, five, six, and seven, and they've never all been in one place at the same time. But Um But, I mean, I'm just I'm concerned about >> a week of it, hold on. I'm going to be devil's advocate here for you.

>> hold on. Be devil's advocate here. I want him to finish that sentence. Okay, go.

Go, Thomas.

>> we've been working really hard and I'm just kind of

I guess very apprehensive about what that month's budget will look like with, you know, several hundred dollars missing from it.

And I don't want that to take away from what the experience is supposed to be if I'm there, you know, worried about that.

>> Mhm. So, have you added up how much money you will lose out on being there?

Um, probably about $1,100 or so, and that's >> Okay. not counting the gas to and from.

Sure, sure.

Um And how much, how much debt you guys have left?

Um, we've got about 13,000 left. Okay.

Uh >> What, what would it do to your budget? Would it stress you out without the 1,100? Would that make it super tight?

Um not particularly. We still have to factor in like, um, we haven't, you know, the kids' back to school stuff is going to be that month and the month prior to that is in August. So, we're kind of just I mean It feels like you're No, I didn't say that. Here's, I know, here's, okay. Thomas, you got to do what you got to do. Here's my, here's my devil's advocate. No, what would you do?

To be with, and again, this is if you want to, Thomas. If you feel guilted, if there's some weird emotional thing, if Dr. John Delony was in here and he's asking you like psychology questions of family stuff, right? Like if it was just a healthy situation I think giving up $1,100 to be with family for one week cuz it doesn't happen. It's not like this is a yearly tradition would be worth it.

Okay. >> For a family situation like that. And everything is paid for. Now, if they're making you pay for everything, that's one thing. You can't afford to go.

Everything is paid for and maybe you go half the time. Maybe you and your wife say, "Hey, we're going to go for four days." And there's something about living life still and this isn't taking you guys deeper

into debt. It may, it may slow it down for three weeks the debt snowball. I agree. I agree. It feels like this is a unique >> situation feels, this, the situation just feels so unique that it's, that

it's not going to happen.

And for $1,100, a part of me would say, "Oh my gosh, like go be with your family." I agree with that if that's what's going on. Thomas, I can't see you. >> don't know if Thomas wants to do it, but >> ask him. Thomas We, we definitely want to. I mean, >> forget the want to. No, here's what I'm asking. You're working 70 to 75 hours a week. Is that to pay off the debt faster

or is that to make ends meet and the $1,100 is going to make things super tight and it makes me feel like that's the case when you're talking about school supplies and $1,100?

>> $1,100, no. >> Hold on, let's let him answer. >> [laughter] >> Well, no, I mean, if I wasn't, if I was working 40 hours a week, all our basic

our, our budget could sustain on that.

The extra working It's the gazelle intensity. cuz we're put, we're putting about anywhere from an extra

probably 1,500 or so per month on the debt. So, back to Rachel's point, but behind. >> $1,100, not making that is not going to make life tight. It's just going to slow the snowball down. >> That's right. Yeah. Then I would, I agree with Rachel now that I have the facts. Wow.

>> let me, I was trying to get the facts from Thomas. >> the life raft and Ken said, "Sure, Rachel." No, I actually agree.

>> [laughter] >> I just needed to get to that point, though. >> That's good. That's good. I couldn't tell emotionally if he was, what's the 1,100 doing in this case?

I think because the kids have never seen each other before dad and mom are getting older, all the things you already said very well. Yeah. I, Thomas, I'm okay with that. >> And and honestly, Thomas, take four days of a paid for vacation as a gift of a little bit of rest, too, right?

I mean, y'all been working like crazy, which is amazing. It's exactly But there's, this is a unique thing and I, I would say go. >> only got one shot around this globe and I would do the family vacation knowing that the $1,100, um uh, you're not going to have that. The subtraction of that is not going to make things tight to where you can enjoy the vacation.

This guy's great to vacation with.

>> It sounds great. >> Hey, Thomas is coming. GREAT! LET'S GO GET THE BRISKET, you know?

>> [laughter] >> Thomas, here you go.

Uh, how do you feel now? You, you feel like this is the right move? You going to do it? You got to talk to the wife? What's the story?

Yeah, I, I'm going to talk to her about it. I think it's there's a mentality shift that needs to take place cuz I've been, we've been doing this since August. Yeah. I think it's a memory. >> And I don't want you to, and I don't want you to lose momentum, either. So, just see this as like a quick pause, a breather.

Paid for vacation and then you're back at it. But I think [music] the, the scope of family and cousins and all of that, there's something really special there that I would hate for you guys to miss out on because you wanted to pay off debt one month [music] later. >> That's right. And I'd make the old man cook one meal for heaven's sake.

>> Yeah. Maybe go half the time. All right, good hour, Rachel Cruze. Thank you, James Childers and our team. Thank you, America. This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

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## 268. You Don’t Escape Debt by Waiting—You Escape by Acting | January 27, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vjda8pL9jRI) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:47:43 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Ken

Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, host of the big hit on Ramsey Network called Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today. The phone number here is825-55225.

Pat's in Boisee, Idaho. Hi Pat, how are you? >> Hi Dave, thanks for talking to me. Um, I'm the executive for my dad's estate.

Uh, about 6 months after his death, I received a letter looking for the person who could act on his behalf. I looked up the company and it's a debt collection agency primaril primarily focused on collecting debts related to deceased individuals. >> Wow. They utilize techn Yep.

They take Yeah, I've never heard of this either. They utilize technology like probate finder on demand to identify and contact the personal representatives of estates to recover unpaid debt. So, my dad absolutely did not have any debt. He was Dave Ramsey while Dave was running around in diapers.

He didn't borrow money.

just from looking at unclaimed property, I do know that there is a gentleman who lived in the same metro area as my dad for many years who had his exact name first first name, middle initial, and last name. So I'm thinking, I don't know, maybe they're looking for that guy here. Here's the deal. I don't even want to talk to them. I don't want to spend time on this. I don't know if you need to know the name of the company, but how worried do I need to be?

Well, I mean, is the estate settled?

>> Uh, the the pro probate is is finished, but it's uh it's not closed yet. I haven't closed it. >> Okay. What What is lacking for it to be closed?

>> Nothing. I was just uh doing some final

insurance policies and transfer of his

property to my mother. So, that is done.

I can close the estate at any time. As far as I know, there was nothing that came up during the probate.

So, your mom's still there and she's sitting with whatever assets that they had.

>> Yes. >> Okay, good. Okay.

>> Um, well, um, I don't know Idaho law,

and I'm not an attorney anyway, even if I did. Um, but the, uh, uh, most states

have a period of time that a creditor can file a claim against an estate,

uh, before, after, or during the probate being open. Okay. And I don't know what yours is. Okay. Uh >> so if they So if they didn't, I'm probably good. >> Uh probably uh from from a legal

practical standpoint or from a legal standpoint. From a practical standpoint, um I I these folks um they they get they

have one little thread that they're hanging on and they're going to pull that thread and pull that thread and pull that thread. are eventually going to end up hassling your mom probably.

So, from a practical standpoint, I would put them down. >> I'm I'm her power of attorney, so they won't get much further than >> I know. I know. But if they start calling her, start mailing filling up

her mailbox with stuff. I don't think there's a legal issue. I don't think they've got a claim. You don't think they've got a claim? They're probably outside the notice of meeting to creditors period of time. All that kind of stuff. But that doesn't keep them from driving everybody in the in the soup crazy. Okay. So, I I probably would invest a few minutes and just shut him down.

>> How do I shut him down? >> I would just call him and say, um, he did not have any debt with you. I'm the

executive of the estate. Um, and um, you

can give him a social security number. Send them a copy of the death certificate. None of that hurts you in any way. and um uh you know are our you

know I'll give you the last four digits of social security numbers if it matches with what you think you're hunting but I think you're hunting this other guy and you need to stop and if you don't provide me proof of written proof of debt and you don't stop I'm going to sue

you under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because you're violating it now that I have told you that I am demanding proof of the debt

Can I just said demand proof of the debt without providing them anything to start with? >> I'll give them the last four digits social security number. What I'm trying to do is in case there's two brain cells on the guy you're talking to, if they happen to rub together, you want to give him a way to go away.

>> Oh, it's not him. I got to go the other way. Okay. Right.

But in case they're in case they if they think but the problem is some of these companies and what what you need to be prepared for is and I think you're kind of already there is they will try to collect from someone that is that they know is not legitimately the debt just by hassling them >> and that's what I'm worried about. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I'm not worried about it because you're going to shut them down.

>> Okay. we're going to block them >> and if they continue to pursue, um, I would have an attorney send them a letter under the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act because they're in violation of federal law if they continue to pursue after you show them that it is not his debt and you give them last four digits of social security number and they don't provide proof of debt. The other thing that's going to come up is they probably don't have proof of debt. They probably bought a line item on a spreadsheet. A lot of

debt buyers don't get the actual documentation on the debt. They just get a line item, point of last contact, some

details about a name, whatever the files got, and it's just a a whole list of line items. It's not like they have a file on him.

>> So, they point being, I don't think they can provide proof of debt, but I'm going to ask because I'm going to make one or two phone calls with these people and try to in a civil way make this go away.

But if you determine that a they're trying to collect from somebody just anybody and they just think they can hassle you, then just pound their face, right? And then uh and and or b that

they cannot provide proof of debt and they won't go away. What I'm more than anything trying to do is get them to quit calling you and quit calling your mom. >> And it's worth two phone calls to invest in that or to never call your mom.

>> Okay. Right. I like that. Okay.

>> Yeah. And then but again, write that down. It's the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.

Okay? And and it is federal law that they're violating. If you demand proof of the debt, they don't provide it and they continue to attempt collection.

Hammer them.

>> I was looking for something to add. You You covered it from every angle. You know, look, you got the facts and so don't be afraid to take this on and then shut it down. I think that's what this is. I don't think this is harassment. I just think Dave's nailed it. They don't have a lot of info. >> It's not harassment yet. It probably is going to be there if it doesn't stop.

>> That's right. >> So, the thing is, folks, you got to do debt buyers when they buy debts are typically paying anywhere from 2 to 8 cents on the dollar.

>> So, they're paying 80 bucks for a $1,000 debt. And they can't they can't even find the people in most cases. In this case, they're chasing deceased people's debt. Okay? So they're always trying to chase down the um this is basically

prospecting. Yeah. Yeah. It's they're dialing for dollars all day long. And you know it's a horrible job. And here's a here's you want to be worse than somebody trying to collect on an old debt. Collect on an old debt that you know the person is dead, >> right? >> I mean this is a bad job. Cleaning septic tanks is more fun.

>> And so honestly, seriously, oh my gosh, what a horrible position. So they probably got high turnover. Got a boiler room uh phone room going. Looks like something on Wolf of Wall Street or something. That's right. >> And um they're just, you know, and the average job time on the job's 21 days and they they're just constantly hiring new people that are dialing for dollars.

You're probably not going to talk to the same person twice. >> And they're brainwashed, by the way. They come at you with a script.

>> Oh, yeah. >> And so that they don't get knocked off.

So, you better really be strong and show a lot of facts. >> And the other thing is the neat thing about the technology is you can just hang the phone up. Just push end.

>> That's always enjoyable.

And then slide that little thing over that says block. And you're done.

They're done.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host day. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones 88 8255225.

Frankie Frankie is in Greenville, North

Carolina. Hi, Frankie. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, I have a pretty straightforward

question. Um, I talked to my dad yesterday and he wants me to pay for his life insurance policy. Um, he said I

should think of it like an investment and he doesn't want to actually pay for it himself. Um, so I just wanted some advice on maybe how I can talk to him

about paying for his own life insurance or should I pay for it myself?

>> That's so weird,

>> isn't it? >> Yeah. When you heard when you heard that, you had to go say what

>> I don't know if you said it out loud, but you said it in your head, didn't you, Frankie?

>> I did. And I And he said it to my mom and he said, you know, because he's not going to be receiving any of the benefits, >> I was like, well, I mean, that's kind of the point. Um, he was saying since he's

not going to be receiving it, I should pay for it >> since I can think of it like an old investment.

I'm 24. >> And how old is he?

>> 65. >> Is he ill?

>> Uh, not necessarily. I mean, he has some health issues, but I mean, for his age, he's >> But his death is not imminent as far as we know.

>> Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you could be doing this for like 30 years.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I think that's a hard pass.

That's a big That's a big N O. Nope.

Nope. Let's just call that. Let's check the not check the box beside nope.

>> Now, the qu your question was your question was though, how do I talk to him about it? Just go, "Dad, you know, I'm 24. I'm going to be doing other kinds of investing rather than in your death >> and um I don't I don't think we're going to go this way, but um thanks for the offer." >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think that

>> pretty simple. You don't need to be snarky about it. Although it's really tempting, but um

>> but it doesn't serve any purpose to be snarky about it other than make you feel just cuz it's just strange and he knows it's strange and I don't know. Your dad does stuff like this often, doesn't he?

>> Yes.

Yeah. >> Quirky quirky quirky dude. Okay. Yeah. I

just I would just smile and say, "Dad,

you know, thanks for the offer. I've kind of thought about this and I talked with my financial guys and they said I should just be doing regular investing rather than investing in your death and I'm just not comfortable doing that and so but thanks for the offer. No. And I really wouldn't go into a bunch of I wouldn't go into a long lengthy discussion about it. It's just a two sentences and no.

>> Well, what I'm going to do is I'm going to play this back for him later.

>> Okay, that's fine. You could tell him. I said, "Obviously, he's quirky, but that cuz that's a really quirky thing to say >> to your 24-y old daughter, dude. If you're going to play it for him, I mean, >> I wouldn't do that to my 24-y old daughter.

>> You've got other things you should be doing with your life rather than investing in your dad's death. I mean, and besides that, mathematically, it's a bad investment >> because insurance companies make money on insurance,

>> right? the probability of his death is

and and the payout is less than the premiums that they think they're going to receive. If they don't receive premiums equal to the payout before he dies, they lose money on the insurance.

And if they do that often enough, they go out of business. So, insurance companies make money on insurance, which

by translation means it's not a good investment.

>> It is a good purchase for those of you out there. Uh we had a debtree scream yesterday I believe or day before yesterday that the young lady's husband was killed in a car wreck who's 30ome years old. Two months before they were debtree two months before that he had

gotten life insurance and he had a brand new baby. Now that's a good time to buy

life insurance. That's perfect. I mean

that that family's taken care of because that young man was just a stellar dad and husband. But this is a completely different thing. It's not a good investment mathematically. It is a protection for your family in the case of a horrible event happening. But if

your dad doesn't, he's 65, he may not need life insurance. If he's got enough money, he could not just not buy life insurance. I'm 63. I don't have any life insurance.

I have a huge pile of money and no debt.

If I die, Sharon's going to have a party. She doesn't need life insurance.

Okay. And it'll be a big party. I guess

not if I die. when I die, if I die

before her is what I should say, right?

>> Well, we will sell. >> We know that that's her plan and I'm a little worried about it, but yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, the data probably backs that up. I I would just say this that this is this is like common core math.

It just doesn't make sense and we already have good math. We don't need to invent something. This is just a wacky idea. The minute I heard it, it just wacky. >> Yeah. >> And you can't, by the way, reason with wacky. >> You just got to move on quickly. >> Yeah. I wouldn't. No, Dad. No, you

>> you didn't have to deal with Common Core math and I'm glad cuz it would have made the top of your head explode.

>> That must have been what happened. Okay, Joel is in Chicago. Hi Joel. What's up?

>> Hi guys. Pleasure to talk to both of you finally. Um I have a question about uh it's a death question. Um I just started listening to you guys a couple weeks ago. Um, I've been watching your podcast or listening to your podcast for like every day non-stop. Um, some me and my wife have

been talking about this and we're getting ready to start the baby steps.

We have the 10,000 already set. Um, the

issue that I'm having is is um I can get you guys some quick numbers real fast.

We're about 25 to 30 in credit card and personal loan debt. We have about 31,000 in two car loans. um 122 in our mortgage

and we have a second home which was our first purchase that still sits at about 40k and that's being rented currently.

Um and so >> what's your household income?

>> Uh we make around 140.

>> Okay. >> Combined before taxes >> and your your question is simply how to start the baby steps.

>> Yes. >> Okay. We get on an every dollar budget.

You and your wife are in agreement that we're going to get out of debt and we're going to sacrifice to do that because if you didn't have any of these payments, you'd have a lot of money. Agreed.

>> Exactly. >> And that's the whole idea. And so, do you have any savings that's not in retirement?

>> Um, no. Um, just just the 1K for the the

startup. >> You got the baby step one. Okay. Then we're going to list all these debts, smallest to largest.

We're going to pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as an extra job and you're not going to go on vacation. You are broke people that make $140,000 a year and you need to clean up this $70,000 worth of stupidity before you do anything else. Stupid butt car loans and all this other mess you've got.

>> I agree. Um the one the one thing I I did wanted to mention is um like the one car loan we owe 2,000 on it. So that'll be gone in like the next four months.

>> No no no it doesn't take four months to pay off 2,000 when you make 140.

>> Oh >> you do that the first.

>> Yeah I agree. I totally agree with that.

>> Um the second thing is the second car is our second vehicle which is an SUV. That one's the one that's sitting at about 29,000 and I told my wife we need to just get rid of the car and that's where she's kind of me on I wouldn't I don't think I don't think you The best way to get your wife on board is not say I want to sell your car.

>> Well, that's actually just like a weekend vehicle. I drive a personal I mean a work vehicle Monday through Friday. >> Is that your car? >> She drives >> uh it's kind of both our cars, but we use this cuz we have three kids. So, it's a larger vehicle for the family.

>> So, you have a work car?

>> Yep. >> That you own?

>> Uh it's a it's a company vehicle, but >> Okay. Oh, so it's a company vehicle. Okay. And then she has a car. Yep. Which is the one that's about to be paid off and that's a community vehicle to work every day. >> And the other one has 29,000 O on it.

>> Yep. >> Will her car that that she owns carry your family?

>> Yeah, we'll we'll fit. I mean, my oldest is is is about to finish high school and the other one, the smallest one, is like 10 years old. So, I mean, we fit not that not much space, but I told her, you know, something we could do if we really wanted is >> Yeah. The other thing you could do, what's the rental worth?

Um uh I think about 12 120 130.

>> Yeah, you could dump it and clean up the whole mess, but um either one of those is fine or or neither if you want to just bust all the way through it. You're going to trade sacrificed lifestyle, scorched earth lifestyle longer. You're going to stay in the mess longer if you don't move one or both of these other items. And that's the decision the two of you can make together. This is the Ramsey Show.

You know, one of the first things I discovered working in the financial world is how absolutely devastating it is when the bread winner of a family dies and there's too little life insurance or none at all. grieving families are suddenly left behind, scrambling to pay bills and trying to make ends meet. I also discovered that there are a lot of ripoffs in the life insurance world, like that whole life crap posing as an investment opportunity.

The key is finding an independent broker who represents a ton of companies and works for you, not for the insurance company. This is exactly what my friend Jeff Xander and his team at Xander Insurance are all about. They shop the term life companies to find you the best options. And they've been around for over 95 years. So, you know they'll be

there when you need them. Xander is the real deal. And that's why they've handled all my personal insurance for over 25 years. I trust them and you can,

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quotes or for a more personal touch.

Give them a call at 8003564282.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The best way to make the most of your money is a plan. Tell your money

what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Most people, the money comes in, the money goes out. Only the names are changed to protect the innocent. We don't know where it went. That's most people. And then you scratch your head and wonder why you're broke.

If you ran a company and your job was to

manage money and you manage money the way you manage money for you, you'd get fired for incompetence.

So, cuz if you if you're working a business, you're supposed to have a budget and then you're supposed to like stick to it and stuff. Hello.

That's kind of basic, y'all. I mean, it's really not hard, but it's hard

because it's dealing with me and I got to look at the teenager and go, "No." And I got to have a discussion with my spouse about spending.

And you know, we got to quit eating out every freaking night of our lives and

then wondering why we have no retirement because we're eating it.

That's why basic stuff like that comes up when you do a budget. Hello. That's

why we came that that's why we came up with the idea that every dollar needs an assignment. Every dollar needs a name.

Every dollar of your money before the month begins needs a mission beside it.

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Open phones at8255225.

John's in New York. Hey, John. How are you? >> Hi Dave. How are you, sir?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Good. So, um I'm around uh 20 I'm 23

years old and um I had around 57,000

liquid cash in the bank and um I got

kind of screwed over by the car industry uh twice now. Um when I was 19, I uh

bought a new Mustang, hindsight. Very bad mistake. Um and obviously I was

upside down and then uh now I have a Cadillac. Obviously I got it pre-owned.

I now that loan is around at 35,000. I just got it about eight nine months ago.

And then I have student loans of about 25,000. They're not crazy high because I went to community college. I've been listening to you guys for a while. And I just wanted to make your opinion.

>> What's that? >> What do you make?

>> Around 80,000. >> What do you do? >> I'm a bartender at my family's restaurant. >> Okay. Very cool. Very cool.

>> Thank you.

>> Okay. And so your question is what?

Should I because I've watched a couple

of your videos if I should just take the 57,000 and dump it into all the debt and just clear it, but then I have nothing left in my account or do I like do

thousands at a time and knock it down as quick as I can? >> Mhm.

Okay.

Is your goal um to be wealthy?

>> Yes. Yeah. >> Okay. Cuz you make a lot of money.

You're doing really good. Thank you.

>> You You must work really hard.

>> I do. Yeah, I work six days a week. Yes.

>> Yeah. And some serious hours, too. Yeah.

Good for you. >> Thank you. >> Good for you. Um I mean, you're pretty sweet spot for 23 years old overall. I mean, you've done some stupid stuff. So, um All right. Couple of things that come out of the conversation is one, you did not get screwed by the car industry. You got screwed by you >> because you walked on to the car lot and you bought a car you couldn't afford because you were acting like a child. Is that fair? Yes. Yeah, of course I did.

>> Okay. You're not a victim, dude. You caused this. All right. Both times. So,

I don't know what a guy making 80,000 bucks that's 23 years old working his butt off needs with a $35,000 Cadillac.

>> I don't know why you have to have that, >> right? >> You might rather have the cash than that, >> right? So, one option is sell a car and buy a

$10,000 car, >> right, >> for cash.

>> And then you don't have to give up all your cash. You just give up the Cadillac. >> That's the main thing I want to avoid is I don't want to just deplete all my savings that I worked for. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it then the Cadillac's on the on the block.

>> So, uh I mean, if you want to keep the Cadillac, you need to pay it off, >> right?

See, you're all your money's already gone. Paying it off. You just admit it.

>> Yeah. >> You've already spent the money. You just hadn't admitted it yet by paying off the debt. >> Of course. Yeah. >> So, you know, it's So, you can undo, but you can you can choose. Okay. Do I want cuz basically if you sold the car for 35,000 bucks um and you took $10,000 of

your and you broke even, got out of it, cleared it, right? Will it bring 35?

>> No, I think it'll bring 24 because I got I was upside down from the other.

>> Oh, you rolled negative into it. Okay.

>> Yeah, I was around 9,000 negative and then I put five. >> So, you're going to spend 10 of your money even if you sell it and you're going to spend another 10 of your money to buy a car and you're going to spend some money to pay off the student loan debt, >> right? >> And you said so you said 25 in student loans. >> Yes, sir.

>> Okay. So you're 60 and you got 57. So you don't have enough to pay off everything. >> Yeah. >> Quite. But I mean, you're making money and you're used to stacking cash cuz you So all right, the premise is this.

>> If we could get you where you had no payments, student loan and the car payments gone through whatever mechanism, either paying it off or selling the car, either one, right?

>> You ch you choose. Okay. If we can get you where you don't have any payments, but you most of your money is gone, you

without any payments, making 80k, you could stack that cash up real quick again. It won't take long. Just a few months. >> I mean, you probably save five six thousand bucks a month, can't you? If you don't have any payments.

>> Yeah. >> Are you living at home?

>> I am. Yeah. We me and my mom and dad live above the restaurant. >> Yeah. So, you got almost no overhead. I thought that. Okay. So, that's how that's how the 57 got there. Mhm.

>> I got some quick numbers here. Uh I want to run with you here. I think you're still walking away with Dave's plan with 11,000 in cash because if you owe 11, so

you're going to pull 11 out to because you're upside down. You're going to spend 10 on another car. So that's 21.

57 minus 21 is 36. We owe 25 in student

loan. That leaves you with 11K >> and no payments. No payments in a paid for $10,000 car. >> And you live at home with a pretty secure job. I'm >> And you're stacking cash like a boss, man. Right. >> You could you you could stack 6,000 I mean in 10 months you'd have 60,000 bucks on top of the 11. You'd have $71,000 in 10 months.

>> I mean, I also have uh 10,000 in an IRA that I'm maxing out every month as well.

>> Well, I would I would stop that until we get this mess cleaned up. But if you're going to clean up the mess in one fell swoop, you don't have to stop it. But you can stack cash. You follow me.

Especially if you don't have a car payment that's 35 grand.

>> Yeah. And so my, you know, I'm going to

use up all my money. Yeah. For a hot second.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz a month later, you're going to have $10,000 more. >> And a month later, you're going to have $8,000 more. And a month later, you're going to have You follow me?

>> Gotcha. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, you're not going to be out of cash for but just for a few days.

>> Well, you still have 11,000.

>> I know you got 11, but I'm saying he's 57's down to 11 and that's causing emotional distress. Lot of heartburn.

Heartburn. Yeah. Right.

>> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. So, but the point is it it's it's a temporary situation and it's the best path for you to become wealthy.

>> See, because your most powerful wealth building tool is your income and you don't give it all to car companies and student loan companies. You get to keep it, >> right? >> And that causes wealth building. And that's what I'm going to tell you to do.

Wow. You got lots of time to be smart. Now, this is the Ramsey Show.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Kate in Maryland. My daughter is a junior in high school and has no idea of what she wants to do when she graduates. My husband and I love the idea of her owning her own business, but neither my husband nor I have experience in this. We both wish we had made different career decisions that would have given us more independence. Where can we research with her to get a better understanding and vision for this option? Or would you still recommend college versus real world experience?

Okay, I'm going to put myself into this particular situation. say if this was my daughter, what would I do? And uh so because she's a junior, we would begin to identify areas of interest. Um not

come up with a business idea. I think this could be very paralyzing for a youngster. It's paralyzing for a lot of people in their 30s and 40s because we know Dave from the data that 70% of Americans want to be self-employed, but only 6% are. So I'm speaking from data here. So what I would do with my daughter is we would begin to identify

areas of interest. In other words,

people that she wants to help, solutions

she gets excited about, problems she wants to solve, and there's an industry.

If there's a business, there's an industry. And so we want to get broad so that she gets some real interest and begins to see some areas of interest. At that point, we're going to shadow. Uh, I'm going to allow her to go have coffee, lunch with people that are in those industries or maybe run businesses in those industries. Uh, shadow at work if if she can get shadow opportunities.

All of this to begin to to create a field of three or four of her most interesting options. At that point, then we start to have the discussion, is college, is a degree the best decision

or is it getting right into the workforce uh and working in an industry?

Give you an example to help clarify this some more. If this were a young man, and and by the way, it's not limited to young men, but let's say she decides she wants to own a business in the trades, okay? uh that that point. Then I want

her shadowing folks that are working in those trades and getting a realworld

experience, the good, the bad, the ugly, the smelly, everything. And at that point, we determine whether or not she's really interested. And and then the path is going to be to go to work and hustle

and learn on the job. And eventually, you work your way into spinning off on your own and starting your own business. So, uh, that's a hard question to answer in such a short amount of time without back and forth, but that would be the advice that I would give cuz that's what I would do. These young people need to see it, touch it, experience it, smell it. >> Yes. >> And then they can decide.

>> Completely agree. Because Kate, you did

not say she has a this extreme passion

and apparent natural talent and bent

towards X because you did not say that that would have led her towards a business. the people that we've talked to that are 18 or 19 or 21 years old that have had success and they call this show and they are really killing it and we're all kind of a gasast at how >> how far ahead of this curve they are running their own thing. They almost always had a natural gift towards something. Uh technology is

not unusual for a 19-year-old today to be something that they would go, you know, they they've been screwing around writing code, messing around, building apps, and all a sudden they built an app and took off and ran a business. Okay.

Uh or, you know, whatever. That's fine.

I mean, that would be Michael Dell. That would be Bill Gates. Both quit college and um Steve Jobs. All three all three

companies were formed by college dropouts. And so, but they were

super nerds with their eye exactly on what they wanted to do. There was no question. Instead, you're asking a very generic thing. I My husband and I always wish we were in business. So, we wish our daughter would go into business, but none of us have a clue.

>> Yeah. >> That No, don't go in business. Business is too hard. >> That's correct. >> Don't don't don't don't put a 18-year-old, 20-year-old out there with no no education to go into business doing that. No. if she thinks or that

that in talking with her that she has got some entrepreneurial flare and wants to do a business someday maybe in the

future a great you know just get a business degree get a degree in finance a degree in marketing you'll learn accounting you'll learn statistics you'll learn marketing um you'll learn

strategic thought uh I mean you'll get some of these basic things in a good four-year degree that's what I have and I use a lot of of those classes I took 40 years ago every day running Ramsay.

You know, it's a $300 million company.

It's a dad good dad gum good thing I had a couple of accounting classes. Hello.

You know, rather than just trying to figure that out with a high school accounting class. And so, uh, it's a good thing that I, you know, understand marketing at an academic level before I actually get neck deep in it and then try to figure out how it works out here in the real world, too. So, I would do that if she thinks she's going to go that direction. Combined with Ken's advice of really go in there and study, study, get, go visit these places. Quit talking about this stuff in the abstract.

>> Um, >> here's what we know about entrepreneurs.

>> Bus business is very hard.

>> It is. And >> and people that have never started a small business and run one have this romantic view. Yeah. And there's But there's a lot of dirt under the fingernails, boys and girls. I mean, there's a lot it's it's a long hours.

It's the hardest boss you'll ever work for in your life. That guy's a dead gum slave driver. >> Yeah. And to that point, the entrepreneurs that win are driven by deep deep desire to solve a problem

>> and they come up with a solution and that's the business. It's a solution and they're deeply passionate about it.

That's what keeps them going because it is you almost need that magnetic pull or else in it because in air quotes, I always wanted to work for myself.

>> Yeah. You're not going to make it.

>> No. No chance. >> It's too tough. You're going to get your butt run over in the middle of the street, man. I mean, you're just going to be roadkill. And it's just too I mean, because you put up with too much.

You shovel so much manure. It's unbelievable to to There's a pony in there somewhere, but you got to shovel the manure. I mean, it's it's real. And

uh and I'm not complaining and I'm not whining. I wouldn't But I had a call for a certain thing. >> That's correct. >> And I've had two in my life.

I mean, one on real estate and went broke and then one doing this and I could do the real estate tomorrow and still be okay. But obviously, God called us to this right here and I'm happy with that. But yeah, I wouldn't put up with the BS that you Nobody will. That's why we see business people quit all the time.

nothing else has a failed restaurant.

That's why restaurants have the highest failure rate of almost any stinking business category because they think somebody thinks because they can cook or like cooking for their friends that that makes them a restaurant owner. No, you got to hire and fire people all day long. Restaurant has a 325% turnover ratio in a year. Means you have to hire three people to fill that one position during that year.

That That's So you're in the hiring business. You're in the firing business. You're in the food sourcing business. Inventory.

There's all this stuff that goes with running a business. It's not cooking. >> That's right. >> And and that's that it blows a chef's mind and they they go, "Oh god, I wish I'd never Yeah, that's right.

We all wish you'd never." >> But yeah, but that is a great actual example of do I want to run a business that serves food or I do do I just want to cook food? Two very different paths, by the way. Both honorable. But there is a big distinction between the two and that's the key.

>> You know, it's even like when we're talking with entree leaders, these small businesses, and they're getting ready to promote their best salesperson to be sales manager. It's two different skills. >> That's exactly right. >> You're managing sales people is different than making sales.

They're good at selling. They're not good at managing sales people. >> And don't forget, they may not enjoy it. They may enjoy the service. They enjoy the service of the customer. They don't enjoy the service of leading a team of people. Again, >> you lead a bunch of sales people. It's like running a beauty parlor. It's dry.

>> That's right. Two very different job descriptions. >> So, you know, you need to get in there what it is. So, that's it's a great question, Kate. And uh we'll have the team send out u >> I love the student assessment would be great for them, okay? >> Because we've actually got that and that's a young person can take that and get a pretty good idea of what a current snapshot of what a professional job description of purpose would look like for them. And that can be a business.

That's right. I'm very quickly killing that. But make sure you understand that, you know, business is not romantic. This is the Ramsay show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Chris is in

Wyoming. Hi, Chris. How are you?

>> Good. Yourself? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I just I just wanted to give you guys a call. I just I mean kind of got

going through some struggles and um with debt and um I got fired from my job on Wednesday and >> Whoa. >> Um so >> that sucks. What happened?

They I they they gave me an evaluation and I I guess I didn't score high enough and I I I think they fired me because of my hearing issues because I was I was born partially deaf and um but I think

they that's part of the reason why they fired me because I couldn't understand things and >> Yeah. You going to speak directly into your phone? Sorry. You got muffled on me there. But you could you had trouble understanding things.

>> What was the job? >> Yeah, I it was I was working at a casino. Um, I was doing surveillance and

um, they just am kind of looking at cameras and answering phones and I think when when I just wasn't understanding a lot of stuff that I was being told and um, they didn't tell me they fired me because of my hearing issues, but I I kind of think that's what it was.

>> Well, does the and the reason I'm asking this followup is because this is going to inform maybe some advice we give you going forward. when they went through the evaluation, whether or not they told you that or not. Did you agree that you weren't meeting their evaluation points?

>> Um, yeah, I do. I do agree.

>> Listen, you're not speaking directly into your phone again, honey. You don't have to do that. It's muffled.

>> Um, yeah. So, um, yeah, I I do agree

that I I was I was having a hard time understanding things that they were the task that they were giving me.

>> Okay. Okay.

And um so you your biggest crisis is

you're unemployed.

>> Yeah. Um, I'm unemployed and um, my wife

can't work cuz uh, she's she got a she

tore her but she tore her femur back when she was in the military and she's using two canes and she hasn't worked for so long and um, so it's just it's

been hard to trying to take care of of her, myself and our three kids and um,

>> are you aware of are you aware of what kind of work that you can do where the hearing is not going to be that big of an issue.

>> Um I for like 15 20 15 to 20 plus years

I was doing like physical work like warehouse type work cuz it really didn't involve a whole lot of I mean I still had to hear things but it wasn't as bad as you know having to like I didn't have to like answer phones or any type of thing like that. And >> um so >> I've been trying to get back into that again. It's just and with winter hours coming up it's just kind of been more harder to get into that again. H how did you lose your hearing?

>> Um I was born with I was born with it.

Um it come it was genetic.

>> Okay. Do you have hearing aids?

>> Um yeah I do. Um I I went through the the Wyoming workforce and >> but they're not working. >> They were um they they're working. Um

they they they've been a big help. Um

but even even after I got the hearing aids with the casino, I was still having a hard time. Um, so I I try to do

everything the best I can and I seem to still have a hard time hearing.

>> Well, the the casino is a very noisy place and even with hearing aids that can be a problem. Well, I'm I'm worried about your location. It seems when you said winter hours that you have limited opportunities due to where you are. Is that what I'm understanding?

>> Yeah. Um cuz I mean I'm I'm in here in

Cheyenne and they usually when winter

starts coming up that's when they kind of a lot of places, you know, cut back hours and because they're fully staffed and it's harder to get into places and

um >> Sure. How much money do you need to make? What's the bottom line that would just take care of you guys? Just your basic expenses. What do you need?

>> Um I mean my my rent. Um, I mean it it's

my rent, my electric. Um,

I mean I don't have to worry about like gas or anything. >> Give me a a number. Do you got a number, a monthly number that you need to live?

>> Uh, and in all honesty, I mean, I I honestly don't know. Um, can't really

figure out a number. Um, it's usually about like I think like 3,000 a month.

That's usually where all my bills are at.

Um because I got two vehicles and then

you know my kids taking care of the expenses for them too and the food and all that stuff. And um >> you have two car payments.

>> Yeah, I have two car payments. I have um I have a a my truck payment which is

$740 and then my car payment's 360.

I don't know what in the world planet you're on that you think you can afford a $700 truck payment.

>> Uh when I was working with Walmart, um I I got fired from them the same year in January. >> Why did you get fired from Walmart?

>> Um because of my attendance because of the wife's medical issues with her leg and then my mental health. Um, I uh I

was leaving a lot and I was calling off a lot because of my mental health and I ended up after I got fired I ended up >> What's the nature of your mental health problem?

>> Um, well, when my daughter was born, she

um >> No, your mental health problem. What's the nature of your mental health problem? >> Um, I'm I'm depressed.

>> Okay. Um, all right. And

>> is your wife on military disability?

>> Um, no. She she's been trying to fight with the VA for several years. And

>> are you on any kind are you on any kind of disability?

>> Uh, no I'm not. Um Okay.

>> I I I tried to get on social security and they they they denied me because I I

I finally got the job at the casino and they denied me because uh >> yeah, >> I was um making too much. And so I >> that would that would be true. That would be obvious. Yeah. Okay. So what we've got to do is we got to figure out a career where you can make some basic income and son you got to sell your truck.

A $780 truck in this picture that you have painted for the last few minutes is insanity.

It's nuts.

So you got to get rid of the $780 payment. And you guys could go down to one car for that matter. Your wife doesn't work. She's on two canes. I don't think she needs to be driving a lot. So, um, you got and and then you're

going to have to pick up work doing a lot of other stuff until you can land something that's stable. Any good suggestions, Ken?

>> Well, the reason I went that direction of what have you done or what kind of work is because you're going to have to get back into that space. And what I heard was a lot of limitations. But right now, you can't accept limitations.

I understand depression is real. That's a real thing. I get it. But you're going to have to fight through that because you are the person that this entire

household is relying on. So yeah, manufacturing, warehouse work, I'm showing up and and I'm going to go back to Walmart and I'm going to say, "Hey, here's what happened to me. I'm going to power through it." I mean, anything and everything right now, two and three jobs, you have got to get enough money that maybe seeing not maybe I'd see a therapist. I I'd scrape enough money together where you get some help because a professional can help you uh with some tools to power through the depression.

And um it's this is desperation time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry you're facing all this. >> So sorry. >> Uh I'm I'm 100% sure we got to get your

income up and I'm 100% sure you need to sell your truck. And when you do those two things, uh, you create a sustainable situation mathematically and that gives you the opportunity to work through the emotional struggles that you got. So

>> keep it up, dude. Keep pushing. Keep fighting. You can do it.

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Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here. Ken Coleman Ramsay personality number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose and his new work um discovering or

finding the work you're wired to do, which comes with the uh the Get Clear

assessment to help you figure out what your strengths are and where you need to head with your whole career and money-making endeavors. It's a great thing. It's just hit a bunch of bunch of uh uh bestseller things this week, as a matter of fact. Very cool. Hey, the average interest rate for a 15-year mortgage dropped from 6 to 5.6 this

week. Uh, and the average this week, I'm

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Open phones at825-5225.

Nicole is in Jacksonville. Hi Nicole.

How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay. So, um me and my husband are about to bring a baby into the world in January next year. And >> congratulations.

>> Thank you. He's had this credit card um with his mom um that he's been having

for like the past basically year and a half. But um she basically has like

joint ownership of his like account and stuff like that because he's in the military. So, like when he first um got

in, he was like, "Oh, well, you're going to oversee everything. Um just make sure like my bills are paid and stuff like that." But she opened up a credit card and she's ran up like $14,000 since

then. And um every time I try to talk to

him about it, like, hey, like what's going on with this? Like um you know, is

she gonna take care of it now that we're bringing a baby into the world? I'm concerned. And then like every time she'll ask him about it, like she completely like gets angry or upset and cries because she has lupus and she has

like a lot of medical bills too. So

we're not really sure how to >> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married for a year and a half. >> Mhm. Okay. And what does he make? What

does he make and what do you make?

Um, he makes like 55,000 a year.

>> And me, I'm a student, so I'm still in school and everything, so I work part-time. >> How old are you? How old are you, too?

>> I'm 22 and he's 23.

>> Okay. >> So, yeah.

>> Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Stop. You don't have a mother-in-law problem. You have a husband problem.

Okay? So hubby has got to decide now

that he there's a new woman in his life that's not his mother.

When you the the old in the old days, people would say things like uh when you get married, you leave your parents and

cleave to your spouse. Leave and cleave, we called it. Okay? And there's a boundary drawn. There's a new household has been established a year and a half ago and now it has a baby entering it. Okay. And we're not going to blame any of this on the baby. We're going to blame all of this on your husband. The day you all got married, it was his job as a man to

separate all of his accounts from his

mother.

This is very boyish, not manly behavior.

>> Yes. >> That he's engaging in. And so, uh, if

you, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to sit down very calmly and I don't care if his mom cries. I'm sorry. And I don't

care. I'm sorry she has lupus. But the reason she's crying is cuz she's ashamed.

And because it works on her little boy.

So, we're going to have to help your husband run down to Walmart and pick up a backbone. They're on aisle three.

And then he's going to walk in there very calmly and gently and say, "Mom, now that I'm married and I have my own family, we're not going to have any more joint accounts. So, everything is being closed today, and you're going to reopen your own accounts, Mom. And you need to pay this $14,000 you ran up on this credit card."

>> Okay? >> And if she doesn't, you'll have to because it's got your husband's name on it. This is a mistake that he has made

and it may cost him and you $14,000

because I got a feeling this woman's not going to pay this. Don't you?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you're not to be involved at all. You'll become the wicked You'll become the wicked daughter-in-law.

>> It'll be all your fault because this woman is a travel agent for guilt trips.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. every time I like try to like talk to her about it. >> Nope. Nope. Nope. No. Don't you ever say a word to her about this again.

>> But your husband, he needs to throw his shoulders back and become a man

>> today. Today.

This is weak >> and fearful behavior. He needs to become courageous, bold, gentle with his mom.

There's no reason to be mean to her.

He's the one entered into this arrangement. But it does need to be very thorough and complete immediately.

It's absurd that a man that is married

and has a baby on the way has joint accounts with his mommy. That's ridiculous.

Okay, you can play this back for him if you want.

>> He needs to square I will.

>> Yeah, he needs to square his shoulders and walk in there. I I don't want him to be unkind to his mom, but it was his duty the week before you got married to

separate everything.

When my kids were getting married, we sat down two weeks before I transferred every single mutual fund that was theirs, every single checking account or piece of savings that was theirs completely out of our name. And if they went and did something stupid with it the next day, that's on them because they're now what's known as grownup adults.

And so I'm it's not my job anymore to manage them. They they are now free agents. They're grown people. And you don't you don't even have to get married to do that. But that happened to be the when we made sure that everything was final because I did not want to be interfering with my in-law my my

daughters-in-law sons-in-law just like Nicole situation.

This is happening more and more. >> Yeah. I the the emotional umbilical cord

needs to be cut and this is the reason why is because the lupus she's my mom.

She did this. She's done that. And you

cannot think rationally when you are thinking emotionally. You cannot have a rational thought at the same time that you have an emotional thought. And this tie together, he's never going to act rational until the clearcut has happened. And I really would recommend that he watch this so that he realizes you're not the bad person. And and you >> don't be pissed at somebody be pissed at me. It's like a spiritual gift I have.

I'm fine with that. >> Yeah. Cut the cord, man. >> There's entire Reddit pages devoted to doing that.

So you can and comment sections of everything. So, >> by the way, this is only going to get worse. >> I want the young man to hear Every day this goes on. This every day this goes on.

And and we're not even going to blame this on the baby. >> Oh, no. >> Not the baby. This is something should have been done before there was a baby.

>> Well, I tell you, it's the big baby. I'm blaming it on the big baby. Not the baby in the womb. The baby who has yet to mature.

>> Yeah. >> Uh and by the way, mom enabled this. So, there's enough blame to go. >> She didn't enable it.

She wanted it. She likes this.

>> He was a mama's boy to go to to military and say, "Mom, pay my bills." >> Yep. Yep. >> I'm not blaming that all on him. Yep.

>> We got to let these kids fly, folks.

Kick them out of the nest. That's what the birds do. >> Mhm. Yeah. That's um

>> This is a national problem to your point. We're seeing >> it's a real problem. It's a real problem. This is the Ramsey Show.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you, your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team, just fix it. And they did.

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Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Danell is with us in Salt Lake City. Hi, Danell. How are you?

I'm good, thank you. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I have a little dilemma that we're trying to figure out what we need to do.

I have a 2012 Hyundai Elantre and it's

got over 2,000 200,000 miles on it. Um,

in around the end of October, I was backing up out of a parking spot and a guy behind me backed into my car and

it didn't ruin my car, so I couldn't drive it, but his insurance totaled my

car and great.

>> So now, yeah, >> I mean, you're driving a hooptie and you're getting a check.

>> Yeah, I Yeah, I can get a check for it for sure. They will I can get 37.45 45 and keep it and they'll I'll have to get a salvage title. >> No. >> Or they'll pay me 4538.

>> No, you take the full pay, give them the car, go get you a car.

>> Okay. >> Is if the car was in good shape if the car was in good shape and it's 200,000 mi 2012 Elantre. What's it actually worth? Have you looked it up?

>> Yeah, it's it's probably under five.

>> Well, that's what they're giving you is under five.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I want you to make sure that what they're giving you is the actual value of the car.

>> Well, the 45 is what they would give me and that's what I >> No, honey. They're going to give you the value of the car. That's the law.

>> Okay. >> They may not have understood that yet.

You may have to help them with that.

>> Yeah. >> But they're supposed to give you the value of the car. The guy the guy tore your car up. >> So, um, didn't take much to total this car, but it's okay. Cool. I'm glad. So, I I want you guys uh you said we are you married? >> Uh-huh. >> Okay. You guys jump on the computer before you accept the offer and find out from Kelly Blue Book what the pro what the uh retail value of that car is and

enter it with 200,000 mi, no damage, and

um you know, your the attributes of that car, the the accessories it has, and so forth. And um and then look on stuff like uh trader.com and find some that are for sale that look similar in mileage. And if you find out that car is worth 5200, you call this insurance company up and say, "Uh, you need to pay me 5200." And here's the appraisal from Kelly Blue Book and here's three cars on to on trader.com that look the same. And

they they all these things say 5200, not 4,500. And the guy will go, "Okay,

>> all right. Who's the insurance company?

>> Bear River Mutual.

>> What?

>> Say it again. >> They're the ones that >> Say it again. >> River. >> Bear River. >> That's the actual insurance company, >> not they wrote the policy.

>> Do what? >> Bear River Mutual. Okay. I just don't know that one. Okay. >> All right. Well, I cuz sometimes I know the reputation. Like if it's State Farm, you can pretty much sure be assured they're trying to screw you.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. That's it's like their modus operendi. Okay, I've been hit by state farm people twice and it's been a problem both times.

Okay, they're just a pain in the butt.

>> And see, it cost it cost them a lot cuz I just said that. So, um but anyway, the

uh u anyway. So, yeah, just just verify that the actual cost value of the car.

I'm not trying to rip them off. I want them to pay you what you're due. That's all. >> Yeah, >> it's an honest transaction >> with a ding in it. >> I'm sorry. I mean, with the ding in the car, is that >> No, darling. There wasn't a ding in the car before he hit it.

>> Oh, okay. >> Before he hit it, what was the car worth? >> Yeah. Okay. All right. >> Cuz that's what they owe you. That's the market value of the car because you got to take the cash and go buy that exact car on trader.com from somebody else.

That's what you're going to have to pay for it.

>> Yeah. >> That's what they should give you.

>> They should replace your car.

>> No, you don't keep your car.

Okay. My other question for you then is >> this car was almost dead before this guy put a bullet in it. Let it die.

>> Yeah, it's true. It's true. Okay.

>> So, I have I have listened to you for years and I just get sick to my stomach

now thinking about even taking a loan out on a vehicle. >> Well, don't. >> We need $5,000 money put aside.

>> Pardon? >> Buy a $5,000 car.

>> Okay. >> You'll have $5,000.

You were driving a $5,000 car before this happened.

>> True. >> So, it was doing it was perfectly good with your life >> or good enough for now. How much money do you have set aside? And is that earmarked for something else or was it for a car replacement?

>> It's It's to go towards a car replacement. About$7,000.

>> 7,000. So then you >> That That's your car fund.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, then you can buy a $12,000 car. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. All right. I just My husband wants me to have a car that he knows we can depend on. And he's like, >> "Man, wait. Where was this husband before you got hit in the parking lot?" >> He was sitting next to me. >> I know. I know. But you see what I'm saying? He wasn't He wasn't whining about you having something that was dependable when you were driving this $5,000 Hooptie.

>> You were saving up to get out of the Hoopti. Now you got You sold the Hooptie. You just sold it to an insurance company.

>> Yep. You're right. >> Lot of $12,000 cars that you can rely on. Excellent vehicles for 12 grand.

>> Excellent. >> A car that'll do any It'll do double back flips. You can get great cars for 12 grand.

>> Yes. >> The best value in the market is 10 to 15,000. It's the best buy in the car market. You get the most bang for your buck >> and uh it's a great You can get a great vehicle for that that'll last you for a long time. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.

There's no reason for you to go in debt, hunt. It's just it was an event. Thank god nobody was hurt. It's a little parking lot ding and it's just sad that your car the parking lot ding. I never heard anybody get total in the park in the Kroger parking lot, but there you go. So, bump you're totaled.

>> Yeah. I mean that I was going to say that was quite a incident.

He must have been on his way to the game with the wings and the chips and salsa.

He was in a something going on. Amber's in Spokane. Amber, welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> Thank you. So, I just have a quick question, actually two-part question.

Um, I have an 18-year-old son. He's

still in high school. He will be 19 next

year, graduating, and

>> he is planning on opening his own business. >> Doing what? >> With his landscaping, with his own

money. He's not going to >> He's very smart with money.

>> He doesn't have any debt. He won't get a credit card. >> He only uses what he has.

>> Mhm. But I was trying to explain to him the other day that he can do it with a zero credit

score. And he and I I am also confused a

little bit too. But I know it's possible. So he doesn't want to take out any loans. He's been >> He doesn't need a credit score.

>> So >> why do you need a credit score?

I think he's more worried about if something comes up where he has to

>> borrow money. >> Borrow borrow to Yeah. If he has to get

a bigger machine or >> Well, that already is going to come up.

>> 100% of the people that buy machines buy too many of them.

>> Well, he has a plan to buy used >> and cash and if something comes up, he'll buy used and cash. He does not need a credit score.

Do not use debt as your back stop in

case of emergencies in business because you will live in debt the rest of your life because a 100% of there's three rules in business. It takes twice as long as you think. It costs twice as much as you think and you're not the exception. Those are the three rules of business. >> The nice thing is is that he understands all three of those rules and he >> then he doesn't need a credit score.

>> Okay. The other question is I have is

how I've been trying to get him to listen to your show or or read your book or and

he's 18. I'll give him that because he's

just he's still in that mentality stage where he's 18. And is there something

I don't want to push too hard so that he doesn't do it all together, but is there I know you have a have books and programs and stuff like that, but I I've already bought those and he he wasn't interested in it. Is it something that may come along later on when he's going through? I guess >> is this >> I mean it okay the only thing I can tell you is the only only good I've ever been able to do with my kids once they turned 18 and beyond was I tried try my best to not use my dad voice cuz once I do they quit listening.

because I am that person that has no power once they're 18. So you've been using your mom voice. You need to listen to Dave. That won't work. He won't. who turned that off immediately. Use your friend voice and maybe maybe he'll pick it up. Probably not, but maybe he will.

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William is with us in Providence, Rhode Island. Hi, William. How are you?

>> Hey, guys. I'm great. Thanks for uh taking my call. I appreciate Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I'm in the military. Um, and I just got married two months ago.

Congratulations. You all about four months ago. Thanks, man. I appreciate it. I discovered you guys four months ago. Life has been excellent. Um, so

we're in the process of moving and we're paying off my wife's student loan debt.

It's about $28,000.

Um, and we figure out we're going to be moving to Hawaii in March. um looking at

housing prices over there, it's going to be pretty insane at least to do like first month's rent, security deposit, everything like that. So, I'm looking at your advice on how to approach that, taking a pause at baby step two and how to move forward there.

>> It's not really a pause on baby step two. just a pause on the whole thing because you've got a uh you know

something staring you're staring

you know you're staring at this thing in front of you and you've got to deal with it right and so you know what I would do is put a detailed number on the March move stop everything and pile up that number cuz it's coming >> it's not if it's just >> oh yeah >> it's not there's no question about the probability of it >> and so and then when you've got that number then push play. Set that number to the side, push play, and then start working it again.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, that that's exactly how you do it.

So >> So which branch are you in?

>> I'm in the Navy. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Thank you for your service, sir. We appreciate you guys. And >> well, I appreciate you guys. >> And how old are you two?

>> Um 28. My wife is 26.

>> Perfect. Yeah. Okay. Have you been through Financial Peace University yet?

>> Uh no, sir. We've uh we've been just kind of listening to the show and and making a go at it. So, >> it's been a little >> We're going to give that to you as a belated wedding gift.

>> Two months into my wedding, I wish two months into my marriage, I wish somebody had shown me this stuff. My life would have been completely different in a good way. So, yeah. And I got a pretty good life. But yeah, so anyway, hang on.

Christian's going to pick up. We'll get you signed up for Financial Peace University because Hawaii is expensive.

Yeah. you need to and that's the truth.

Dave, I got to ask a quick question because this is I'm curious to know your take on this. If I was in this situation, now he's in the military, so he may not be able to do anything outside of his military service, but if his wife is not working outside of the home or even if she is, I'm the kind of guy that if I were in that position in the baby steps, certainly baby step two, and I had an expense like that that was coming and we knew it was going to be a chunk. So, let's just say it was I'll make this up for example purpose.

I had to come up with $5,000 for something in March.

and fund that 5,000 above and beyond what I'm doing out of my normal budget towards the baby steps.

Do you do you does that bother you? Is it >> that's an okay thing. The the thing is it works exactly the same way if you just push stop. >> That's true. >> And then go crazy and pile it up that much. >> But I'm the guy that hates losing the progress. put put you know it uh but if

you pile it up twice as fast >> right >> because you're not staying in play mode.

You push pause then then you boom you're you're back at it and mathematically you'll end up in about the same place.

>> And um but you're right it does it does light a fire under you to get it done quick. >> Jack is in Los Angeles. Hey Jack, how are you? >> I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

My fiance and I are both 25 years old.

We're getting married uh two months from now and we're of course looking to combine finances.

Not sure the best way to go about it on a couple fronts. One, should we be waiting uh until we're married. Uh two,

we both do have credit cards. We both as of last month are debtree, but we're wondering should we be keeping them? Uh

should we get rid of them? We're worried about, you know, cancing them impacting our credit scores as we look to buy a house. So, hoping to get your advice on all of that.

>> Okay. Um, you don't combine finances

until you're married.

>> Okay. >> And after you're married, then yes, you combine them because the preacher will say, "And now you are one." And that's

what that means. Until then, you've got all kinds of issues when you combine things that can happen. um if if something terrible happened before the wedding, you get you get yourself into a mess. So, we just wait until then. As

far as keeping your credit cards open,

um the best thing I know to do is cut them up and close everything and have zero balances. And if you have no active accounts going, it takes about 6 months for your

credit score to just disappear. you what you don't want is a medium credit score.

You you either want a very high one or a

no credit score when you're going for a mortgage. No credit score set you up for manual underwriting with someone like Church Hill Mortgage uh person that you know the team that we've endorsed for mortgages for almost 30 years now and

and they can help you do a manual underwriting with zero credit score. Uh, but you don't want you don't want to be in no man's land in the middle. And that's what'll happen if you keep a bunch of stuff open with zero balances because the the FICO is algorithm is built to where it wants you to be in debt to drive an 800 credit score. You have to get in debt and stay in debt and pay

it regularly. I pay my credit cards off

every month or I don't use them at all and they're open will damage your credit score. So will closing them will damage

your credit score. But closing them is the path to get to zero. And that's where I would recommend you go is to zero. And it's okay to not buy a house immediately. By the way, it's going to take about 6 months for this to happen.

So 6 month 6 months from the time you're married, you both close all accounts.

You have zero balances, zero activity of any kind on anything that's reporting to FICO, you will disappear. You'll fall off the grid, which is what you're trying to do here. And um you know

that's the goal and we recommend in general young couples getting married that they wait a year to buy a house. It takes about a year of marriage to know how close to your mother-in-law to buy.

You got to get to know each other. Okay?

And you you know you you've been married 20 minutes. You're going to buy a different house then you will when you've been married 20 months. Um it's a different it's a different property you're going to sign up for. And so it just, you know, just take your time. You got you got the rest of your life. You're going to be okay. Uh I don't want you to take 10 years, but you you can take a few months. And and during that time, you have the opportunity for the credit score to go away.

>> Yeah. You know, I'm thinking back to when Stacey and I got married and and uh this whole question and we we were walking through premarital counseling.

Both of our dads were pastors and so they were, you know, really driving home the point that you made, keep everything separate, separate, of course, but it was us trying to clean everything up.

and Stacy had some debt and we worked really hard um to help her and she she

went after it and to enter into marriage with and we had a little debt uh I had a little bit of student loans left and she had a little bit left and then we knocked them out in that first couple years but it was such a big deal for us

to in that first 12 months just learn how each other handled money >> you know what I mean how you handle life >> there's that too but it's like to make a big purchase decision like that and strap yourself into a a mortgage like that without kind of, as you said, experiencing marriage and the way we viewed money. That first 12 months for us was really eye opening and we had to learn how to get on the same page.

>> Yeah, it was for my wife Sharon. She realized she'd made a huge mistake.

>> Well, Stacy as well. Poor woman.

They have the patience of Joe. >> Thought she married Sir Galahad. Turns out it was Goober, >> right? >> I resemble that.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio with Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author and host of The Front Row Seat as my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ryan is in Nashville. Hey Ryan, how are you?

>> Good. Dave, how you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, um had a question about um retirement and 401ks. Um, I am new into

a Roth IRA. I'll be 50 next year and I

can only contribute so much to that. And on my wife's 401k, we're maxing out what

she can do um, a year on that. And then

there's a rollover IRA from previous employment um, that we have. So, we've got the three things working for us, but I can only contribute, you know, that just that 7,000 a year. And I I would

just like to know what you think other ways for me to try to make my money work

for me um down the road so I can have more retirement. >> Yeah, you can bump it to 8,000 at 50 and you can also do a spousal Roth for your wife as well. Are you doing both of those?

>> So we can do that if she has a 401k plus

she has a rollover IRA.

>> Yes. >> And what's that called? I'm sorry. >> Just a Roth IRA. She can just do a Roth.

She can do one, too. >> She can do a Roth. >> Yep. Even if she's not working, she could do one, but she's working in this case. So, make sure is her 401k a Roth.

>> Uh, no, I don't believe. Well, yes, it is. It is. Okay. All right. Cuz the if they match, the portion they match is not Roth, but make sure it's not traditional. Is the roll over Roth? Is a

rollover IRA, has it been converted to Roth?

>> I don't think it's been converted. It's just a rollover. >> Okay. If you convert it, it'll make the taxes on the amount come due. What's the amount in there?

The amount on the rollover currently is probably about 75.

>> Okay. So, you would have about 15 or $20,000 in taxes, probably 15. Um, if

you get So, if you got an extra 15 to invest in retirement, I would roll that to a Roth and pay that 15 in taxes and call that investing. Here's why. Because from this point forward, it will grow completely tax-free.

>> Okay? So that paying those taxes now is like investing into a into a retirement.

So if you're looking for more money to throw at something, the first thing is you bump them to eight. You do a spousal spousal. Make sure her 401k is Roth if

it's not already. And then take that roll over and you know talk to your tax person, figure out what your taxes are going to be before you do it. Make sure you've got that much in extra cash to pay your tax bill next year when the April rolls around because you're going to have an extra whatever it is, 15 grand or so. um on that and then roll

that 75 because that 75 in seven years will be 150 and in seven more years will be 300 and in seven more years will be 600 and all of that will be taxfree if

it's Roth. It won't be the way it is now. It's going to grow and all of it be taxable at ordinary income. So you do want to move that at some point. But if

you're looking for extra ways to put money towards retirement, that's the ways you can do it. Matt's in Tennessee.

Hey Matt, how are you?

>> I'm doing great guys. I'm so excited to be on the show. Thanks for taking my call. >> My pleasure. How can we help?

>> Well, my wife and I have been weighing the decision of making her a stay-at-home mom, and I just want to

make sure we're not letting emotion

blind us from making a uh a bad decision

financially. >> Cool. Good for you. How many babies you got? Uh, we have two. Uh, they're both under three. >> Awesome. You got your hands full.

>> Never a quiet moment at your house. Yes.

Okay. So, um, >> yeah, that's great. Um, I just kept the grandbabies last week that Sharon and I did that are that age. And I know what I'm talking about for just a moment there, but I can hand them back when they're broke. You can't. So, um, this one's got something wrong with it. You don't need to work on this one. Yeah. But the, uh, anyway, the, uh, what does she make?

Um, she makes 95 gross. And >> what do you make?

>> I make um I'll be on track to make uh

over 150. >> Okay, cool. Um, if you want to be really

really sure, uh, an easy way to do it would be just live on your check for 3 months and bank hers.

>> Yes, sir. We've we've been doing that.

>> Oh, you have? Okay. I mean, minus dayare. If you got dayare, you could take daycare out of hers, but because you won't have that, >> but if you just practice. So, you've already you've already proven to yourself you can do this,

>> I guess. So, but um I mean, I guess we're just a little nervous to take that leap of faith. Um you know, >> it's not a leap of faith. You've proven it.

It's a step. True. >> It's a step. It's not a leap.

>> Yes, sir. >> How much do you A leap is I have no idea and I've never even looked at the math. That's a leap.

>> This is true. >> Yeah. So, you're done great, man. So, what does she do for a living?

>> Uh, she's a nurse auditor for Humanana.

>> Is she a nurse by trade?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. I think Ken and I would both recommend that she do enough of something to keep her searchs alive while she's at home. >> Yeah. >> We we've both talked about that as well.

We want to keep her um her license up to date. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And you'll be amazed at what she could pick up as just little side things here or there that make a lot of money. >> She's got like the perfect career to do

what you're talking about doing.

>> I couldn't agree more. >> I mean, she could pick up if y'all got in a pinch or something, she could pick up weekends in the in the ER and make almost as much she's making now.

>> This is true. >> Be very uncomfortable. And I'm not recommending doing that. And you don't have to because you've already proven we can live on your income. So yeah, just do it, man. Do it. This is what the This is you. This is why you manage money, to get to live the life you want to live, and you guys want her to be home, and she's doing nothing wrong and everything right by doing that.

>> Yeah. My my question is is is Dave was walking you through this, you just you still seemed unsure. Is that because you're worried about some big giant expense coming out of nowhere from the giant in the sky, or you are too tight

on just your income?

No, that's a good question. We're We're not too tight on my income. Um, what

makes me nervous, Ken, is I started this

job in June. Um, and it's a phenomenal

job. It it it it provides very well.

It's it's given us a great financial bump. Um, I guess it just makes me nervous to um solely rely on on my job

having been being in it for such a short period of time. >> Yeah. What do you do?

>> I'm in medical sales.

>> Oh, dude. >> Yeah. >> You land another You can land You can land backwards on your head and make 150 in that in the next job.

>> If these people lose their minds, you can get another job doing this. Once you've done medical sales, you're so qualified, it's unbelievable. You both have selected excellent careers.

You'll be making 250 in three years, dude.

>> Yes, sir. Uh if everything goes well and I'm and I stay on plan, I should I should track to make over 200.

>> Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, the good thing comes like a decision like this is you're going to be extra motivated. And I I appreciate you sharing the fear and I I didn't need to know. I wanted you to hear yourself say it. And so what you need to do now is go, okay, if this makes me a little nervous, is there any evidence that it should make me nervous? And in this case, the answer is no. And then to Dave's point, uh you can crush it, man.

So go crush it. And here's the other thing. You guys can decide, okay, we're going to stack up a little extra money.

Oh, just a little rest easy money. Now, we're not saying you have to do that, but you can to kind of ease yourself into this. You guys get to decide how and when you make this transition.

>> And everything goes sideways.

>> She she walks down there and picks up a nursing job. >> I mean, if you lost your job, she picks up a nursing job. Y'all can eat. It's okay. It's not It's not like it's permanent. You keep those searchs, though. Keep keep everything up to date.

Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. He's the number one bestselling author and host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Networks. And one of his best-selling books is Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It's his latest bestseller. Uh it included in it

is the uh Get Clear Career Assessment

that we've sold almost 100,000 of and it goes with the book for free. So, not only do you get the assessment, you get the book to teach you how to read the assessment and what to take away from it. So, be sure and pick that up at ramseyolutions.com.

Jack is in New York. Hi, Jack. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Well, thank you very much, Dave. How are you today? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Well, I'm I'm at the age now uh mid50s

um to where you want to get to be conservative with your investments.

However, uh for retirement, however, I

don't have a retirement because of life choices that I've had to make throughout the years. So now that I'm finally in a financial position to where I can start making investments, I'm afraid to make liberal investments to make money to actually have a retirement because I'm at that age to be conservative. So I really don't know what to do. And I I'm >> Well, let me help you with this. You're not at the age to be conservative. I don't know who told you that, but they were wrong.

>> Well, I don't have that many years left to live. You have plenty of time. You're only 50.

>> Okay. >> I'm not I'm not conservatively investing. And I'm 63.

So, I'm investing in good growth stock mutual funds that are growing like a weed. And you need to be. You're broke.

>> That's Well, I'm not broke, but I have no retirement whatsoever. >> Well, that I mean, what do how much do you have? How much money do you have?

Uh, I got about 20k in savings.

>> Okay. Well, you're broke.

I mean, forif for 50 years old going into retirement, that would scare the crap out of me. You you need like 250,

right? Moving on. And so, I'm not trying to scare you. I don't want you to panic, but you do need to get with it.

>> Um, as you said, and you recognize that, that's why you called. So, um, what I would do is this. I I it the thing I have figured out is there's two things that we uh are afraid of and fear is a

positive thing in these situations.

Number one thing we're afraid of is something we don't understand.

So the first time you sat behind the wheel of a car, I distinctly remember I was 12 and dad said, "Move the car around back." Um I left no gravel in the

driveway. No one told me you weren't supposed to press down on the accelerator all the way to the floor.

And so, um, I didn't cuz I didn't know what I was doing. So, driving a car, I didn't know how to do it. I was afraid and I was really afraid after I screwed it up, right? Uh, but now we all have been driving cars for decades and we drive and don't think anything about it.

It's like muscle memory. So, you learn how to do the thing and you're no longer afraid of it. The second thing you're afraid of is something that will legitimately hurt you. standing in the middle of the interstate, you should be afraid an 18-wheeler is going to turn you into a bug, right? And so, yeah,

that's a, you know, a bear is standing in front of you, you should be afraid.

That's a good thing. But the other is just you're afraid because you don't know how. And that's the investing thing. That's wisdom, but it's something that can be overcome.

I don't want to overcome my fear of bears. They will eat you. >> But I do want to overcome my fear of things I don't understand that can help me. Uh, and the fear goes away with knowledge.

So, sit down with a good Smart Investor pro, click that at Ramsey Solutions, and let them let the guys that we recommend begin to teach you and gradually start to understand.

increase you you'll easily increase the amount of money you start pouring into retirement type investments and you won't have to worry about the whole idea of conservative versus whatever bull crap something you read on the internet.

Right. >> Yeah. >> No, I I I completely understand that.

That's absolutely true. Uh >> Ken, >> yeah, I was just going to echo that that right now you have no idea what you don't know and and that it just paralyzes you. And so I think the quicker you can get sitted seated with Smart Veester pros, interview several, figure out the one that you've got the best chemistry with, there's that teacher relationship going on and uh you can make up some ground pretty quick, but you've got to be aggressive. And I and I would say Dave, beyond just the mindset of aggressive, I'd be doing some things if I were him to make some extra money and try to catch up.

Where can I make an additional 10 grand, an additional 15 to 25?

When you begin to see that momentum, by the way, that uh that gets really really exciting and you start doing more of that. A lot of people think that they got to have a side hustle just to pay off debt uh and or just pay the bills.

In this case, when someone is that age, to the extent that you can do some extra work and leverage your skill and experience to pour more money on top of the little fire, the bigger that fire gets, I would that would be a direct challenge in this situation for him.

>> That's very good. And that reminds me, you know, when when they're walking around out there in the world, people say these sayings that are just stupid,

right? >> You know, here's one of them. What you don't know won't hurt you.

What you don't know will kill you.

>> Yeah, >> that's a dumb butt saying.

>> You know, lack of knowledge will knock you out, man. >> I mean, it's that's a rid, you know, like you can just stick your head in the sand. And I'm not talking about Jack here. I'm just saying in general. But, uh, yeah, it's a big deal to know new things all the time. Angela's with us in Knoxville. Hi, Angela. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. I'm doing all right. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Awesome.

Um, so today is actually my birthday.

>> Happy birthday.

>> Thank you. >> How old are you? >> I have like an option. Uh, 42.

>> Oh, okay. Just a pup.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I actually met you in Orlando a couple years ago, in fact, at one of your events. Um, so I'm trying to get back on track, Dave. I never did the uh the baby steps. I purchased FPU at

that event. Never did anything with it like a dummy. And so basically I'm in

$30,000 of debt. Uh about 18 of that is

my car and another seven in credit card

debt and I owe five to a family member.

And so my question is I'm trying to

figure out the best way to go about once I get to baby step two because I'm going to be finishing baby step one next month

and then in August I'm going to start tackling the debt. My car has about

250,000 miles and I use my car right now

to make a living. And so my concern is if I start tackling the smaller debts first and then my car breaks down and the transmission goes out or something and I can't fix it and I you know I I

don't know if I should be saving more in my step one for that or that's kind of where I'm stuck and I just wanted your input. >> You owe $18,000 on it.

Yeah, I I had a paid for 4ERunner a few

years ago and then I started a new job.

>> You owe $18,000 on a car you have 250,000 miles on?

>> Yeah, cuz I was a courier. I I I ran the miles up on that thing. I was a courier for uh the last two, three years since I

bought the car. I just racked it up.

>> Okay. Uh what kind of car is it?

>> It's a 19 Dodge Charger.

>> Okay. >> A six-cylinder. It's a cheaper one.

Yeah. Okay. All right.

Okay. Uh, no, I mean, we're worrying about something that hasn't happened yet. It's it's a reasonable thing to worry about because those things may occur. But I'm not going to change the game plan here. I'm going to um, you know, if you have a problem, you may have to stop your baby steps and address the problem. But until you do, you were

already broke before you started this, and now you're just running broke trying to do actually do some good and climb out, right?

Yeah. >> I mean, so yeah, cut up your credit cards and let's start attacking them with a vengeance and work as many hours as you can and as Ken says, always, you know, get an extra job. Let's do six things and and uh do that written budget

in detail and live on nothing and work all the time and let's begin to get this cleaned up because this is a scary place to be for you.

>> It definitely is. I'm actually I had I moved to Knoxville from Florida back in just just this last December and I had a pretty decent job. Didn't pay too great, but it was it was all right. It was my first job since I moved here. I got laid off like after 3 months. They just didn't need me anymore. And so I've been door dashing like 72 hours a week ever since. And I have another another job

>> um that I started, but they're just trickling me in with work. It's not I'm not full-time with it yet. Once I do, that should be about 72 a year.

>> Well, that'd be huge. That changes everything, Ken. >> Yeah. I'd love to see her really hustle through this quickly cuz that car is going to be a problem pretty soon.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it's But I don't want to stop doing it in L if something hadn't happened yet. >> I'd let that be that extra motivator.

>> Yeah. Exactly. This is the Ramsey Show.

When you're tired of feeling stuck with money, there's just one solution. To get different results, you have to do something different. No one accidentally wins with money. You have to have a game plan. And that begins with our getstarted assessment. Go to ramseysolutions.com/start.

Answer some questions and we'll show you what steps to take next. Don't stay

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Amit is with us in Greensboro, North

Carolina. Hi Amit. How are you?

>> I'm great. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, uh I long story here, but I was uh my my background and technical background is engineering and science. I did that for a few years. I went to school for it and everything, but loved basketball. Ended up switching careers and I ended up coaching basketball first at the collegiate level, division one, uh, and then into the NBA for the last two years.

Uh, the NBA is moving more and more towards hiring players. Uh, even with 10 years experience in in coaching at those levels, I'm having a hard time finding jobs that are paying me enough to to get by. I'm married.

So, financially, we're okay. We have no debt, nothing. Uh, homes paid off, cars are paid off, so we're good there. But, I'm thinking now of transitioning into a different career. I have no idea what to do. And I've been so out of touch with what my degrees are in that I don't know if I could go back or if anybody would take it, you know, bring me back there.

If that makes sense. >> It does make sense, but I want you to know that that's your fear and doubt that's clouding your judgment. and just somebody who's completely objective. A former division one basketball coach, a former NBA coach is a highly attractive

bio and resume. Uh especially if you have some skill set that will apply to what you're going for. Um just I'm just

interested what's your favorite part of coaching?

>> To me, it's about the relationships and the people I interact with every single day. Yeah. whether it's players or other coaches or executives, whatever, administrators, whatever it may be, it's it's a very people and relationship driven business. And that to me is why I got into it in the first place.

I know the salaries are crazy right now, especially in the NBA, but I never was about it for the money.

>> Did you play Did you play college basketball at any level? >> Did not. Did not. And that's that's the crazy part. So, I'm 5'10. I'm Indian and

there are not a lot of people that look like me that do this. >> Right. Okay. You actually led me right into my question and you're making my case for me. Um, you aren't in that

position because of your X and O's knowledge and being a guru, a guy who put up 25 points a game. You're not in that role and you haven't gotten into that role based on that. Is that true or false? I my my my my success is all from work

and relationships. That's it. I don't have the 15ear NBA career that some of these guys. >> Exactly. And you have managed to get to the highest level of a sport. The NBA

as a 5'10 Indian. I mean, you really are an absolute freak in a good way. Okay.

And it's all based on your skill set of connecting with others. Can I just tell you something? And Dave can chime in here. He's a guy that uh is the founder and active CEO of a company of over a thousand people and he hosts the one of the largest most influential leadership podcast in the world. We talk about leadership all the time. America needs

leaders. I'm paying attention to this stuff every day. And and companies need people who can lead people, who know how to connect with people, who know how to communicate with people, who know how to instruct people, who know how to encourage people. A meet, you got an

incredible resume. Oh, and an engineering degree. So, if I'm you, I'm going I'm going to start with let me take that degree of engineering and I'm going to look at the engineering field. I'm not going to limit myself to engineering, but I'm going to start there because I got the degree. And then I'm going to I'm going to start working my connections. By the way, I'm going to give you my book, The Proximity Principle, which for a guy like you who's a learner, it's going to give you the absolute formula, the five people

you need to be around that will help you get where you want to go. And by the way, you have an unbelievable network.

And so all those coaches who know business guys, your college connections with all these business guys who used to donate money big time, they were hanging around those D1 programs. U those are

your connections and you go, "Look, I got an engineering degree. I can get in the engineering field and lead people today. I may not be the most talented engineer, which by the way, am tell me if I'm right or wrong. The guys and gals

that are leading teams of engineers are rarely the most talented engineer. True or false? >> I want to know. I've been I've been removed from it for so long that I that I don't remember. >> All right, I'll tell you the answer. The answer is leading engineers. You don't

have to be the smartest Dave, the most talented engineer. You just got to know how to lead people. And this guy, he's bonafide. That's my take.

and he's he's going for management and leadership positions across the spectrum of the business world. I think he can go just about anywhere because it's not about the trade and it's not about the industry. It's about his ability to come in and bring a team together. That's my that's my two cents on that one.

>> Exactly. Right. The you know what we teach when we're teaching entree leadership to business people is what happens a lot of times as small businesses people become accidental Yeah. >> entrepreneurs.

40 people and 10 trucks.

>> That's right. >> Running around. Now I'm no longer Now I'm no longer a heating and air technician. Now I'm a leader. >> That's right. >> And leading and running a business is a different skill set than fixing your air conditioner. >> And leading and running a people is a different skill set than playing basketball >> or being an engineer. The leadership

skill set you excel in. That's right.

>> And so you do have a great resume in that sense. Now the trick is where do you want to >> plug it in? What type of a business?

What kind of dynamic environment do you want to be in where >> you're leading and then finding people through your connections with proximity principle to plug into one of those locations would be you just be amazing.

>> Yeah. I mean, he can absolutely make this transition and do very, very well because what he has going for him that a lot of NBA coaches don't have if they leave the that industry is he's got a really good degree. That engineering degree is very helpful. Meaning, he's got that skill set. He's got the mindset to think like an engineer. You add the leadership to it. Unbelievable.

Absolutely. It's exactly how it works.

So, hang on. We'll have Christian pick up and we will get you signed up for that. Uh send out that book to you meet.

Um so Ken the uh proximity principle the

the give us the thesis of that.

>> It just simply means this. If I am around the people and in the places that

of the space that I want to be in then opportunities come my way. And so the formula is this. The right people plus the right places always will equal opportunity. I got to get around the right people and then I get in the right places. And when I'm in the right places, I meet more of the right people.

And then they point me to the right places. And it is this knowledge and

connection combination that just keeps moving, moving, moving, moving, moving.

And if you stay with it long enough, opportunities show up on your doorstep.

This idea of kicking the door down is

Hollywood bravado. It makes for great fantasy. But in the real world, connections come at the most le at the most uh unexpected times because we keep showing up in the right place or we keep showing up around the right people and all of a sudden I'm top of mind or I've got the experience uh and I was showing up and then boom, I'm ready to step into it. Speaking of basketball, John Wooden,

arguably one of the greatest coaches of all time, certainly basketball, it's my favorite quote, Dave. He said, "When opportunity comes, it's too late to prepare." And the proximity principle gets me in a place when the opportunity shows up, I'm ready to step right into it because I kept putting myself around the right people and in the right places. This is the Ramsey Show.

All

right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions.

Ramsay trusted agents aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling. They're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramiesolutions.com/agent.

Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 3:6.

In all your ways acknowledge him and he shall direct your paths. Thomas Sell says some of the biggest cases of mistaken identity are among intellectuals who have trouble remembering that they are not God.

>> Classic classic passive aggressive just

mic drop there by Thomas Soul.

>> Boom. There he goes. David is in Chicago. Hi David. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> Oh, thank you very much. Thanks for having me. >> Sure. How can I help? >> Uh uh my question is is that I'm trying to do the baby steps. I got myself in a little bit of a quagmire with my debt, mostly uh real estate investment, but nothing horrible. So, I'm trying to apply the real uh the baby steps. And

I'd like to sell one of my rentals, but I just don't think my tenant is going to be able to relocate andor it's so somewhat of a a moral quandry,

anything.

Uh why why is your tenant why can't your

tenant relocate?

>> I I just don't think that she'll be able to get another home, especially one as nice and large as this one to house her

and her kids. >> So you're not you're not charging her market rent?

>> Uh yeah, it's close. I mean, I could probably charge her more. >> So if she's getting close to market rent, why can she not take close to market rent and go rent something else?

I I don't I don't think she I I just don't think that it's really available. I think it's really going to put her in a position and I think she's going >> Why is it not available? You think you have the only house?

>> No. No, I don't. I don't. But she's I think she's paying for her mom's rent, too. And I've tried to counsel her to like maybe they could live together, but I don't think that's a I don't think it's available. She's been late and

behind, you know, you know how it is as Reynolds. And I just like I said, "All right." >> Well, let me jump. David, let me ask a question. >> I'm curious. Did you feel this way? Did you have this concern for her before you

talked to her about the possibility that you were going to do this?

>> No. Uh yeah. Yeah, I did. Um

>> Okay. >> And what was her reaction when she when you told her that this was a possibility?

>> Uh I I've broken to her a little bit, but not I really haven't come down.

>> You didn't answer my question. What was >> I didn't really say it. >> I didn't really say anything about selling it. It really hasn't come up yet. >> Oh. >> Um I know it's not going to go over well because I don't I don't think she's going to find >> Well, but there's a lot of thinking. You keep using the word. Listen, I it it is not your job to manage her house.

>> That's right. >> You're her landlord, not her boss.

You're not her daddy.

>> And um so you're pay she's paying almost

market rent so she can pay this. Take the almost market rent and go rent something else. So, and and if she wants to combine households with her mom, that's completely her business >> and her problem.

>> It is not your job to manage her life.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> And you are not doing anything wrong.

>> No. >> To take an asset of yours and say, you know, >> yeah, I I you don't want to be uh mean or nasty about it. And if you want to give a little bit more notice, there's no nothing on fire here. Uh you know, we're going to instead of giving you I don't know, she on monthtomonth She is now. She didn't want to resign last summer. >> Oh, she didn't want to resign last summer. >> No.

>> Yeah.

>> I get I get a I get a fair amount of runners like that that don't want to resign. >> Yeah. >> Well, they're not committed to you. You don't have to commit to them. The point is you're not >> I think if you said, "Okay, I'm legally bound by the lack of a lease to give you one month's notice. Uh I'm going to give you three months.

That's a good compromise. >> And um that gives you plenty of time to work your way through this.

>> Um it I I've appreciated you being our tenant except for those times that you didn't pay on time and you don't have to say that, but you know, you're acting like this is some kind of freaking stellar tenant. They don't pay market rent and they don't pay on time.

>> So I I missed where I'm excited about this tenant. >> So um you know I uh uh and that's not

being mean. It's just uh like you got

really one job when you're a tenant.

Well, two don't tear up the house and pay the rent on time. These are the two jobs you got. >> So, um it's your job to make sure you're charged market rent. So, um uh so I No,

you don't have a moral dilemma at all.

You can be kind and you could give more than adequate notice and say, you know,

I'm sorry. Gosh, if there's any way I can help you with this, I'll try to help you. Uh, but if helping you means uh you

staying in the house past this 90-day mark, um that's not the type of help I'm talking about. So, um but if there's uh you know, if we can assist you in any way, I tell you about my friends that have properties uh help you find a you know, something like that. I I appreciate that this. But that's what we're going to do. We're going to give you three months notice. Listen, she can process this in 3 months. And

if she's angry at her landlord, who she refused to sign a lease with for giving her 3 months notice, who's only required to give her one month's notice, uh, that's her fault, not yours. That's her

fault. And so, I think this is all about David. He's such a nice guy >> that he's worried about a confrontational situation. And we understand that, but this is nothing more than a difficult conversation, and it's not his bag. And I get it. Uh, but

she's going to be fine just by virtue of only she don't want to sign a deal anyway. She's got options. She knows it could change at any time. David, you're a really good dude and you're just fretting over a difficult conversation >> and it's going to be over in about 4550 seconds.

I mean, there's not a lot to it. It's um, hey, going to be selling the house. I'm going to be sending you a note in the mail. So, we make it formal that um, you know, July 1st we're going to be done.

And I'm giving you plenty of time. You had 30, you have a 30-day, right? Um, but I'm going to give you 90 days just because you've been here a while and I want to be kind. And um, thanks. That's

it. I'm done. >> It's really It's really don't have to have big long thing here. It's not a whole bunch of feelings.

It's it's um >> I've had I've had landlords in my life and none of them had any feelings for me, >> you know. That's right. I just none of them did. I was I never had one that did that.

And uh I mean if you get a situation like we had one one time that uh you know a guy got a a terminal cancer diagnosis >> you know and he's got four months to live and he lost his job cuz he lost his health and his wife had three little kids at home and all this and so you know we just didn't charge him rent. We let him live there and let her live there after he passed for a little while. I mean we wor we worked with them but but that can't go on for eight years either.

even that, you know, it's a is a period of time we can have some grace and mercy with somebody in that situation.

to have to move. That's, you know, this lady, she really just got to move. I mean, that's part that's why, folks, that's why you want to be an owner when you can be. And um and not in a stupid

way. Don't go buy something you can't afford because I'm afraid my landlord's going to do that. Oh, by the way, if you don't have to move, sign a lease. Hello.

then they've, you know, he if he had a one-year contract, then he'd have have to honor that morally, ethically, legally, everything at that point.

>> So, there there's the process. And, you

know, here here's the other thing. Um, those of you that uh

are that that are thinking of owning real estate, you need to have a policy

of raising the rent every single year.

Because I've been doing real estate for about 40 years and rents have gone up

every single year. And the people that I know that get stuck in situations like this, they don't raise the rent for 5 years cuz it's a nice person and they pay on time and they cut the grass real in a little pattern and then we just love them and you don't raise the rent for 5 years and suddenly you've got a way below market situation and then you try to raise the rent and they have a fit like they think they're the owner.

Mh. >> So, it's really good. It just keeps the relationship uh accurately defined when we raise the

rent, even if it's a little bit. I mean, >> what's the Dave Ramsey way on that? Do you look at the market and then just under? >> We look at the market and we go if they've been with us a long time, it's a little under market.

>> Okay. >> But not I mean, I'll take it all the way to max plus some been there one year. We just take it up to market. If they've been there 5 years, we we tell them when they come in, too, >> right?

if you don't have that uh pattern you

set these you set an entitlement expectation in place and it creates real serious problems later it's a real bad idea that puts this hour of the Ramsey show in the books and we'll be back with you before you know it in the meantime remember For there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Yeah.

Heat.

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## 269. You Don’t Get Out of Debt by Accident—Choose Your Hard | January 20, 2026


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>> [music] >> Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in today is 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. [music] Let's go. Grace is going to start us off in Asheville, North Carolina. Grace, how can we help today?

Hi, Ken. Thanks so much for speaking with me today.

My question is regarding my marriage and

how to handle finances. I'm the saver

in my marriage, whereas my husband's more of the free spirit.

And although we make a really great income, I'm still having a really difficult time staying encouraged when his heart hasn't

caught up to the sixth-grade math as you all have talked about. So, my question is more about how to not be a controller or an enabler and continue

being an encouraging wife when I just feel really let down and like there's a lot of arguments. Oh, bless your heart.

I I love this.

Um okay, couple questions.

Uh are you in the Baby Steps? And and if

so, where? And then, how long have you

got or have you been trying to get this going?

Great question. So, we are in the Baby Steps. We do have an emergency fund of a

little over a thousand dollars, which I'd be happy for it just to be a thousand, but I'll just say that for now. Right. Um we do have a personal loan um that's just left over on a truck that

we bought and we have a mortgage um since we own our house. >> Okay. How much is the loan on the truck?

The loan on the truck that we have left is just 19,7569.

So, 19,000.

1,000. Sorry. 1,975.

I got it down to the penny. Yeah. >> Did you borrow it from a family member?

No, we didn't. We had um we actually got a loan from the bank and then it's a it's a long story, but that's just essentially what we have left on it.

>> What is your income?

So, I make a base of 60 with an on-target earning of 90. Mhm.

And um my husband is he is commission

only. So, that's part of um the challenge and he has been commission only since we got married. Okay. What does he make?

He made um over 150 our first year of marriage.

It was about 160 um pre-tax.

And he's on track hopefully to to at least make 150 at this new position he has. He's been switching up quite a bit, but yeah.

>> How long have you been at How long ago did you bring this whole Ramsey plan to him?

Oh, immediately. No, no. How long ago?

Um well, we started talking about it when we were dating.

Um especially when we got engaged, we started talking about the debt that he had and >> I'm just trying I'm trying to I'm doing all this Sure. We've We've known each other for 3 years. We pretty much jumped into our relationship. We've been married for a little over a year and a half.

>> Okay. And the reason I'm asking all this stuff >> [clears throat] >> is because for Jade and I to weigh in and try to help you on your core question, which is I love the way you position it, by the way.

And so, what I'm trying to understand is is he opposed to this plan or is it just

really, really hard for him to live by the plan? What's What's his response?

>> say the latter. Like he'll say I'm a Christian, I'm not a Ramsey-an.

Interesting. >> Cuz he thinks I'm so hardcore >> Okay. >> about it, but I think but he also is is aware of the fact that it's relative, right? So, I come off very extreme to him and he comes off very extreme to me.

Got it. Yeah.

I'll be honest, the fact that he's

likening a money plan to a religion lets me know that it's coming across to him through you uh as quite extreme. Give me an

example. Like give me a real-time example of a conversation that you've had where he was on one end and had one opinion and what it was and you were on the other hand and had another opinion and what it it what it was.

Great question. So, yesterday we were going over where we are for January and

um for example, like our grocery budget is a thousand dollars Okay. a month. For just the two of you?

Yeah. >> No kids. Okay. >> We have no children. I think it's very reasonable. I said, "What are your thoughts on all of this?" Um and we we

got to the grocery category. He basically said, "Uh I see that we're like almost we're at the upper 900s, like 990 something. I think that's to be

expected." And I caught it later. I said, "Well, why would you say that this is to be expected if we have a budget of a thousand dollars and we're on the mark to essentially double it, why would we have agreed to this? Are you saying it more so needs to be 2,000?" And he'll get really upset because I come off like

I'm trying to preach to him or coach him or like tell him that he's not really getting it, that this isn't okay. So, I feel like I'm also very passive and it comes off disrespectful, but I'm also like getting really, really frustrated.

>> Uh go back for me. I I may have missed something. So, the budget's a thousand.

You're up to it at like 990 something.

Help me understand the doubling part. I think I missed that.

Yeah, so I basically said because we're at the middle of the month, we're doing like a like a full month. >> Yeah, you're saying we need to slow down. We're up at it. I just want to make sure I understood that properly.

Right. >> And he was more so Why did you say this is to be expected?

Like when he looked at it, he said, "Well, that's to be expected for groceries." Understood.

>> like, "Well, why are you saying that?" Okay, understood. Cuz you're saying we set a boundary, we should stick to the boundary, and he's saying, "Well, this is just an indicator that this is what we spend. So, if we go to 2,000, that

that that should be accurate." Okay.

So, I I Here's Here's what I want to just a fun experiment, okay? I want you to pick one-word answers to these two questions, Grace, okay? And and don't overthink it.

Okay. I'll try not to. >> Okay, great. I just want you to go top of mind, [laughter] okay? If you were to pick one word to describe what you value about money,

say what what that What is that one word? Safety. What is it?

Safety. >> Safety. Okay, great. I thought that was going to come out. What do you think he would say? What's the word that he would say? >> Freedom. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. Yes. I did, too. So, the reason I've gone to this is because I actually think

this is a 100% marriage conversation. This is not a money conversation. You guys and you are

different in that you said that you're the saver and he's the spender and Dave has talked about the natural, but I actually think for you guys, you got to go below why each of you is is is one of you is the spender or one of you is the saver. And I think when you're attempting to adopt [snorts] a value system like Ramsey

Solutions, the Baby Steps are based on a value system, right? Mhm. And it's

really hard for some people to get into that system. It's easier for others.

Okay? Cuz Dave's got a very rigid plan,

right? No wiggle room, a lot of black and white, and people that aren't naturally black and white, who aren't rigid and disciplined, at times can have a harder time adopting it. So, we can't really solve this for you but other than I believe that I would start over.

I really believe that I would sit down with a therapist and not make this heavy with him. Just go, "You know what? I've been too intense. I think you've led the system, so I think you've got to lead the healing and the reboot. And I think it needs to be let's start over and let's give it to the therapist. Not because we're we're our marriage is dying, because I think we need to reset on a very important issue and I've got some safety issues with money.

>> [music] >> And you're so amazing, can we restart?" And I think if we start with a therapist on language around this and then restart, I think you guys can heal on this.

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All right, let's go to John in Newark, New Jersey. John, how can we help today?

Hi John and Ken, thank you so much for taking my call. Big fans.

>> Oh, thank you. How can we help you?

Yeah, so essentially, um, my wife and I

are a single income family. We have two babies, a 4-year-old, 2-year-old, and one due next month.

And we recently started following the baby steps.

Uh, my question is regarding the size of our debt and when exactly should we start tackling this?

So, we have about 600,000 in student loans

plus a mortgage and two car leases, which after listening to Dave Ramsey, we're going to get rid of us.

How much is the student loans?

So, uh, 500,000 me, 100,000 for my wife.

Oh, wow. Okay. And then tell me about the cars.

Um, so the cars are two leases, just an F-150 and an Expedition. What are the prices every month?

Uh, we pay about 800 for her car, about

600 for mine for mine.

>> My, my, my. Okay, this is an expensive situation. >> We made We We made these before listening to Dave Ramsey. What's your degree in? For 500 K. Um,

I'm a plastic surgeon. Good.

>> Oh, what do you What's your income? Did we ask that? Uh-uh. It's It's about say varies a

little bit, but it's about 750.

Excellent. Excellent news.

>> Excellent. Well, that's That's the good news. Yeah. Okay, so this kind of puts

it in perspective. It's all relative, right? Depending on the numbers. So, when is the baby due?

Baby due is in 3 to 4 weeks from now.

Okay, and what money do you have saved?

We have about 122,000

in a in a high-yield saving. Okay, so you've got Would you say that that covers 6 months of expenses or 4 months?

How many months of expenses does that cover? >> [snorts] >> Mhm. About to cover about over 6 months.

Over 6 months. Okay, great. So, I would say, you know, typically we say when there's a baby coming, you're kind of in stork mode. Save up as much as you can.

You've got plenty saved. >> on. Let's just get real here. What's your take-home? As a plastic surgeon, what's your average take-home in a month?

So, in a month I've been averaging about 34. >> Right, you got plenty money. You got gobs of money. You can fix this so fast, it's not even funny. Well, Jay's going to walk you through it, but but I don't think he needs to stack up. No, I said he doesn't. I'm just also saying for the benefit of a listener who is used to us saying if there's a baby coming, stop and save. I'm explaining why he doesn't need to do that cuz he's got plenty saved. So, you don't need to do that.

Um, we normally would give that advice, but you've got plenty. And so, I would go ahead and push play. Um, even if by the by the way, even if there were some form of complications and your insurance kicked in and you hit your full deductible, even if you hit your out-of-pocket max for the year, you'd be fine. So, that's why I think that you can go ahead and hit play on this. And if I were you, um, when do these leases when are they up? So, uh, next year.

Oh, can you get Can you find out what it is to get out of them early?

Mhm. Yeah, that's That's our plan. Our plan is to find out and get rid of them as as fast as we can. >> Yeah, do that. Do that. There's no need in keeping this around any any faster. I

would take a little bit of the money of the 122,000 you have saved and buy some

cash cars. Um, and it's not going to be the the be-all end-all. I'm not saying you have to spend $4,000, but I am saying it's probably going to be less than the cars you drive now, just to get you something in cash, but don't drop that emergency fund below 6 months in order to do this.

Um, and then I would start getting cracking with the rest of that money once the baby is born.

With the rest of that 6-month fund, I would come in and I would clear out one of these student loans. And you're going to drop that pretty low.

Mhm. I guess my my wife and I worry is

that given the size of our student loans, if we follow the baby steps, we will kind of burn through all our savings Yeah.

and be a little ways away from being able to pay them and being a single single income family.

>> Okay, so let me let me address that cuz I'm going to tell you straight up. I'll tell you the 100% truth. If you do it the way that I'm going to suggest, it's going to feel uncomfortable because I want you to be debt-free really, really fast because I value the same thing you do, which is to get to security quickly.

Right? To to your point, you're a one income family. You've got lots of kids.

Right now, your house is on fire.

You've got almost $700,000 of debt. So,

>> Yes. you got to clear it out. So, I'm on your side in the way that I want to do it as quickly as possible. So, if you take 122,000 and you pay off the $100,000 student loan, you clear out the mortgages, you spend 10 or 11,000 dollars each on some knock-around cars until this thing is cleared out. And then for, I don't know,

a year, you guys live on 200,000 instead of 700,000 and you pay off the $500,000 student loan. I think that that's possible.

Because most people in the in in the United States wish they had a $200,000 income. So, if you if you live on 250

and use the other 500 to pay off the loans, you're done in a year.

For for pretty much live with a minimum or minimal emergency savings

until those are done. >> Mhm. Mhm. Mhm. Are you familiar with our baby steps?

Yes, 100%. This is Yeah, so that means

you have a thousand >> baby step number two.

Yeah, but if you were to follow the baby steps the way we teach, you are emptying that that that savings account. Cuz here's the thing. Let Let Let me Let me hit you with this. Let's play it out.

Let's say I tell you, "Hey Hey, drop your drop your savings down to $1,000

just to have a little cash there. Pay off the $100,000 student loan. Like I said, pay 10 or 11,000 dollars each on some cars. And over the course of the year, spend $500,000 of your income to

pay off this debt." If you have an emergency, what's the worst emergency you can think of? The roof blown off your house?

Right. I mean, something happening to me that that I wouldn't be able to work.

>> So, let's Well, that's a different That That's a life insurance question. So, we'll talk about that in a second. But let's pretend a big gust of wind comes tomorrow. You've taken your savings down to a thousand and the roof blows off your house, right?

Something crazy. You make $34,000 a month.

I'm pretty sure you could stop paying debt for that month and cash flow whatever the emergency is, right?

That's a very good point. You see what I'm saying? If you're concerned about you're being a one one income family, that's a life insurance question. And that's And And disability. Do you have life insurance? I have I have both, yeah. Okay, then you're covered. So, the point is if something happens to you and you can no longer be a plastic surgeon, Mhm. are Have you put in place policies that would take care of you and your family?

I have, yeah. >> then. So, what are we stressing out about? Now, we know this is extreme. Um, but let's play the numbers out so you can catch a little vision here cuz Jay just played out how you can knock off, you know, a lot of debt. So, if you fix these car leases and can get out of these and then you knock out your wife's student loan, now you've got a $500,000 chunk. How much money, if you're on a tight budget, could you put towards debt, that student loan, every month based on the 34?

Yeah, I think projecting with with the three babies, we could probably put away

at least maybe 15 or a little more per

per month. >> Great. So, let's keep it at 15 for round numbers, right? So, you just do the math. 15,000 a month

over the course of how many months knocks out the 500,000? I think it's really important that you have that in your head so that you go, "Okay, I've got to do this. It's not for 10 years.

It's for, you know, whatever that's going to end up being." I don't I'm not that good at math. All right, 15 * 10 months obviously is 150,000.

So, we're looking at 3-plus years at the 15,000.

But that's just at that. But that's to say, you gave us an average month. So, you know, how does a plastic surgeon go make more money? That would be the answer I'd be wanting to know.

>> [laughter] >> I don't know. I don't know. That's not my world, but I bet there's a way. How do you What do we What do you have to do to make a million dollars? >> Mhm. Mhm. Yeah, cuz taxes is eating up a lot of this. I know there's a I know there's a lot of vain people.

Uh, >> [laughter] >> Yeah. My point is, and I was using very round numbers, too round probably, but my point is, the quicker you get this done, the quicker you can go back to living your plastic surgeon's lifestyle with the cars you want and the income you want and the savings that you want.

But if you're trying to solve for security, security is best gotten quickly, not little by little, drip by drip over time. You want to get to that place of security fast and ripping off the band-aid is the way to get that.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

[music]

>> All right, let's go to Colin next in Salt Lake City. Colin, how can we help today?

Hello, how are y'all doing today? >> Great, how are you, sir?

I'm doing very well. I'll I won't steal Dave's catchphrase.

Go ahead. If it feels good, say it. We don't care.

I'm doing better than I deserve. >> There it is. I knew you wanted to say it, so there you go.

All right. >> It's true. Good. But, anyway, my question today is I'm on baby step two,

and I keep getting into debt because of my poor spending habits, and that's what I want to fix.

And so, if you'd like, we can get into where I'm at. No.

>> debts? Not yet. Because I think you just presented what you really need to fix.

>> Mhm. Now, I'll turn it over to Jade to walk you through how to get out of this very specifically, but let's dive into this. What do you think? You hear you are calling a big show, and you're bearing this to the world because I think you're probably sick and tired of this. Yes or no?

Yes, I am very sick of it.

>> All right, then what do you think is causing you to spend irresponsibly? What do you think's below the surface?

Well, I'm I'm pretty young. I'm 24, and

I never really learned how to manage my money well. I had people who tried to teach me, but I didn't listen. And I started making really good money pretty early on. Who tried to teach you?

My dad. Okay. He tried very hard to teach. Okay, and what kind of money are you making?

I'm making about $60,000 a year base, but last year I made just under 80,000

Okay. with overtime and everything. And then, be really honest. Tell us Tell Jade and I what you spend your money on.

If we were to go through and do an audit, and what would we find that we would consider irresponsible?

A lot of things. Um mainly, biggest one is probably going to be food. Right? Even though I meal prep, sometimes I want to go get some food.

Sure. But, the bigger ones The bigger ones are nice things. Like what?

Like what? Things. Like what? So,

um I'm trying to think of some I'm sure they're sitting in your [laughter] driveway. >> is it for you to How hard is it for you to remember the big things you've bought in the last 12 months? >> Yeah. What? What are we talking about? >> In the last 12 months, so of course, I have a motorcycle. I have a an SUV.

>> Uh-huh. Right? I got those, and that takes up the bulk of my debt. Okay. Um

But, >> And are you taking trips?

>> No, I'm not taking trips. It's mainly

buying higher quality things cuz I don't like buying cheap things multiple times.

>> Okay, so are you buying higher quality things on debt?

Or are you using cash?

In some cases, it's using debts. Okay.

Who are you trying to impress? >> Uh-huh.

Um probably myself, but that could be a lie. I don't really have anybody around.

I'm single. I'm not in the dating market.

>> deal. We'll save time because you don't have to answer that now because that's putting you on the spot, but I think that's a legitimate question you need to wrestle with. I also think uh the question you have to wrestle with is

what does success mean?

Because if success to you means I can

buy this, I can buy that, I can buy that, and it just is a list of things that you can buy, you'll just keep buying and buying and buying. But, if success equals something um uh a little more weighty, I think it could cause you to pull back on some of those purchases. So, I think those are good questions to sit down and really

think through. Is what Is what What does this mean to me? What am I trying to to solve for here?

Okay. >> sense? Does Does success mean I have an $80,000 vehicle, or does success mean I

have options? Does success mean I can buy three motorcycles, or does success mean I have time freedom, right?

>> How would you define a broke person?

Do that for me.

Um somebody who's broke is probably if they lose their job, they lose their

livelihood.

Right? So, not just the job itself, but I'm talking their car, they can't go to work, they can't make money.

Right? They might lose their house. Mhm.

>> You know, somebody who's kind of a slave to the debt. You're on path I don't want to be >> path you're on is to be a guy who has a lot of stuff, but is broke. >> Mhm. Yeah, cuz there's plenty of people who make $40,000

a year, don't have debt, don't overspend, don't go into debt over things that they can't afford, and that person at this point's more successful financially than you are. Mhm.

Mhm. Right? So, I think it's really good to think about what Ken just said, to think about what I just said because I have I have a It's not a numbers problem, right? We can go through your numbers, we can show you that you've got margin, we can show you I mean, and we can do that in this call. We can talk about paying off your debt, but this is kind of um this is a values question on Mhm.

>> who do you want to be with your money?

What's important to you? What's actually going to give you meaning with your money? Cuz my guess is you're a hard worker, you're going to keep earning more and more and more, but stuff really does um when it just starts piling up

and piling up, it starts to kind of lose its meaning. And I think that you're starting to sense that already, yeah?

Yes. It's almost uh the instant gratification of buying things justifies

my hard work. >> Mhm. Yeah. Well, and let's also Yeah.

>> And it can. I'm not saying that it can.

I do think that when Ken, when we work, you you earn your paycheck, and you do like you picture a lifestyle that goes along with the money that you earn. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think it becomes a problem when we're willing to go into debt because now it becomes a facade. Once you go into debt, it means you couldn't afford it.

So, it becomes That's a fake level of success. What if you just Cuz if you had told me before, Jade, I like high-quality things, I would have said, yes, me too, Colin. If you had said, Jade, I just like spending money on nice dinners and nice nice clothes, and if I go on a date, I want to do it up, I would have said, me too, Colin. You lost me when you said you were going into debt to do it.

Yes. So, that's the pullback right there. You um Have you ever Are you a country music fan by any chance?

A little bit. I dabble. Yeah. I don't know if you've ever heard of the song "Way Down Yonder on the Chattahoochee".

>> Oh, way down yonder on the Chattahoochee, never knew how much that muddy water meant to me. >> There's a line in there that came up in my head. All right, have you ever heard of the song, Colin?

I haven't. I'm I'm not a big fan of country music. >> Here's the point. Okay? There's a lyric

that came up in my mind from that great song that reminds me of you. Okay? And I don't say this in an ugly way. So, forget the whole country music thing, but there's a line that says, "Never had a plan, just living for the minute." >> Uh never had a plan, just living for the minute. >> I think that kind of defines you. I don't think there's some deep heaviness necessarily with you and money. I just think you're young, and you you you want

things in life. You want some finer things. You like the finer things. And I'll bet you that there's also a connection between your dad, what a good man he is, who tried to tell you about this, and I'll bet you, tell me if I'm right or wrong, that your dad's pretty darn frugal. True or false?

Nowadays, he is. Mhm.

>> After he made his mistakes and tried to get me to not make those mistakes.

>> Yeah, so did he Did he have a time in his life where he was buying lots of toys he couldn't afford?

Oh, yes. >> Okay. So, hey, so listen, here's another thing. That runs in you.

So, all of this is awareness. All I'm doing is kind of helping you get aware to to where you go, "Okay, now I've got to change my list." And I think this is a fun exercise for you. If I were coaching your house, this is what I do.

I go get out a legal pad, draw a line down the middle, and I want you to write have to on the left and want to on the right. Now, you have a very different have to list at 25 than I do at 51. I

got three kids, you know, I one's one's

in college, I got two doodles. And so, when my money comes in every month, I have a long have to list. But, I get

great satisfaction, the same satisfaction that you just mentioned in Jade, I get from providing and taking care of my responsibilities. But, my have to list is where my priority is. And even now, and I make good money, all right? All right, but I still have a have to and a want to. And my want to's, Jade knows some of that list, there's some expensive toys out there that I want, but guess what?

They come in second That's right.

>> to the have to's. And I think for you to say, "Now, where do I want to be when I'm Ken's age?" Unfortunately, I'm that old to where I can use that example. And that's 30 years from you, right? Where do you want to be? So, now make your have to list with your money every month based on where you want to end up in life. You're spending all your time in the want to column, which is natural, so I'm not beating up on you, but flip that mindset and watch the discipline come with it.

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>> [music]

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All right, let's go to Russell who joins us in Colorado Springs. Russell, how can we help today?

Hello, thank you. Um my wife and I just wanted to get some advice on whether we need to sell our home or take one of our refinancing quotes we've recently received. Okay, run us through the numbers.

All right. Uh we make about $9,000

monthly.

Um but our current mortgage is $3,250.

Okay. And then our utilities are usually 300.

And then we also have a minivan that has 8,500 left that we've been putting 600

to every month.

Okay.

Uh minivan. And so, tell me about the refi offers. Tell me about your current interest rate and what the refis are.

>> [clears throat] >> Yep, so current interest rate is 6.25.

Mhm. And the best that I could get was actually a Churchill Mortgage who gave me 5.25 right now, and it would save us

uh $320 [clears throat] a month. Okay, which doesn't solve your problem, per se.

Um >> Yeah. You're about $1,000 off from where you want to be. You want to be about $2,250.

Is there a light at the end of that tunnel? Cuz so far, the savings is not

enough for me to be like, "Woohoo, go do it." I'd I'd be looking at some other things in your life that could shift um

to bring in a little bit more cash. Is there something there on on the career front?

>> we are active duty military, so we could move on base, which with utilities and

rent would only cost $2,300.

Okay, great. >> we'd have to sell the home, and that's what we're worried about. Well, let's walk through that for a minute. When will you will you be transferring anytime soon? Do you have a kind of a scheduled move as a lot of military folks do?

Yeah, in the next 2 years we there's a chance we can move. Well, there you go, Jade. That is good. How big of a chance that you'll move?

Um Pro- we could stay here. We're in we're in Space Force, so we could stay, uh but we could also choose to move.

It's not as big of a deal Okay. Do you think you would choose to move, or would you choose to stay? I I think it depends on which house we are in. Ah, okay. So, let's then go back

before we tackle this house. Go back and tell me about the other debt. Are you said there was a minivan.

Did I hear that right? >> Yes. Tell me what else. Yep, and that's that's it. How much is it again?

It is currently 8,500. Okay, 8,500.

Um and there's no other debt besides that.

No. And how much is that monthly payment? You probably already said it, but It's it's only 240, but we've been paying 600. >> You've been paying 600. >> to pay it off, but I was uh worried about the government shutdown. So, that isn't going to happen now. Got it.

Um So, if you moved on base, you'd save $1,000, it'd get everything right side up, but if you lived in the base housing, you would not want to stay there long-term.

Potentially, yes. Yeah, but I think that's >> worry for us is that we owe 462 on our house, and they told us it'd probably be 450. Yeah.

Okay. Um I I think moving on base, this is very black and white to me. So, I I'm sitting there looking at if I were in your shoes, you guys got way too much house, and your cat your income is capped, right? The there's no income fix on this because of your military role, and there is also a let's call it 50/50 chance

that you're going to move. If you did that, we always give advice to the folks in the military, don't become a long range landlord. >> For sure. So, because of all of this, >> trying to I wanted to be right side up on the house a little bit, cuz you said it was 462, and it's worth 450.

He can't. There's no way to unless you can find a way to solve that, I don't think that's solvable, but I'd rather take that hit and get into the base the

cut their expenses and get in the base housing. I just think this house was a bad idea, and I think I would go on base, reset, and get your financial house in order.

You can always buy another house, but because you're in the military anyway, That's that's an option. I'm not saying it's Yeah, you could have a different piece of advice. I just don't know how you fix being upside down on a house.

>> Well, let's lay out time. So, let's lay out both options. So, Ken, option number one is go ahead and sell the house, take the loss, move into base housing, save yourself $1,000 a month, and then you'll have

freed up money to pay off the 8,500.

Another option is can your wife work?

Can your wife make a thousand bucks a month?

Um she stays at home and home schools, so we we don't want her to.

>> Yes, the answer to that is yes.

Right. She can make $1,000 a month.

She's the the kids aren't in school 24 hours a day.

Right. Right. That's that's option two.

Option two is Option two is wife makes

[snorts] it a point to say, "I'm going to try to make between 900 to a thousand bucks a month." Suddenly, there's no more squeeze on the income. You're right at the 25% point, which is where you want to be, and then your only debt's 8,500 on the van. That's your only debt.

And then suddenly you pay that off, you've got 600 bucks a month back in your pocket, the mortgage is in the rightful spot, and you can ride that house out until it's time to move. And then when the option to move comes, if you want to move, you can. If you don't want to move, you can stay there, and hopefully by then, after those 2 years, you're back right side up on this house, and the market has done you well. So, that's option two.

Um neither of these are wrong nor right, they're just what you think is best. Would you agree with that, Ken? Or do you think Do you think my No. Do you think I think if they're comfortable as a couple with her committing to make that kind of money, Mhm.

but that's not a lifestyle choice they've chosen. So now I look at that and I go, "By the way, I 100% agree that is a viable option." Um but I I still think they have too much house.

you all to sneak underneath where you need to be, it's too much house. Yeah, it is, but at the same time >> up from the audience. That's all I'm saying. Thumbs up from the audience out there.

>> NO, ONLY FROM THAT KID. NO, from [laughter] this lady right here. Oh. Oh, there's a guy right there that's frowning at me.

>> Yeah, I think not because if it would be one thing >> you're frowning. I'm giving them a viable option here. >> It'd be one thing if they both worked if they both worked and it was still but it's they're really squeaking by. It's right there.

>> That's my point. They're squeaking by because of the house. >> Yes.

especially while upside down, is a big is a big deal. So I I would tend to err

err towards option two. That's just what I would do. >> go with I'll go with two to make you and the guy in the lobby happy. But here's the deal. Here's Here's why I'm saying this. They're also in the military.

Yeah, they're they're going to move anyway. >> If they were in this place long term, I would have sided with the option one. I just think because they're not there long term, probably, then I think you got to look at that. But again, Yeah, but think about how much they're going to lose on their upside down.

They don't have that cash. That's going to create more debt for them. Again, I'm sticking to getting out of debt and you got to choose your pain. Choose your heart.

So there you go. I I listen, I don't need to be right. I gave him another option. >> I want to know what he's going to choose.

>> Well, a lot of it has to do with the wife. Yeah. I think in today's digital world where you can hop on the internet, you can sell anything, you can tutor. I mean, she's a teacher.

There's a lot you can do to make a thousand bucks Listen, I so am in agreement with yours as an option that she could make more than a thousand bucks. >> right. They might decide it's not a value for them. Yeah, but you're right.

There's no question they can right side from an income. >> Mhm. If she's working. >> You're saying it's all values.

I again, you know me, I come down to it's always a Ramsey principle first, but then we got to look at the practicality of the relationship. So there are winning there are cases where there's multiple options to achieve the principle. So how will they pay off the upside down? Selling stuff, she's working, doing other things, but they're out of that house. >> though. But they're out of the house.

>> That's true. So I That's why I like both options. Yeah, they're both good. Call us back and tell us what you do. Yeah, either way though, it's right. You've got to choose your heart because you're in a situation you shouldn't be in. So that's the moral of the story there.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] Studio.

I'm Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw is alongside and we got a Michael who's joining us in Las Vegas. Michael, how can we help today?

Hey, so I was discussing with my wife some kind of some payments we're making and different things and kind of getting things planned out for the near future and one

of the clouds that's kind of hanging over us is the money that we owe her parents and I a lot of it kind of came into the relationship from before I even met her and so I was just

kind of wondering how I should go about a conversation with my in-laws to try to kind of figure this out and I guess what's right for me to ask for and I guess just how to go about it all.

So did she owe them money on her own before you got married?

Yes, so roughly a decade ago she started college and they pretty much just gave her a blank check and told her I mean, I'm still kind of cloudy on the conversations that did happen and I've never been involved any of them since.

Okay. >> And so they basically wrote her a blank check and she and then took out some student loans in her name as well and we're paying off the student loans.

We should have that paid off by the end of the year. We're, you know, being really diligent with that.

>> The student loan is about 22 grand.

Okay, and how much was the blank check for? Um that's where based on the ledger I've seen, it's about 46 to I think it's about $46,000. Okay, and what did that money go towards? Just life? Yeah, it was living expenses, college.

There were things on there like one of the most noticeable for me was Amazon fake plants for $29.95.

Okay. >> just a lot of Just a lot of little knickknack stuff. I want to rewind to the to the start of your question here because the way I heard it, you were asking us, "How do I go about

you how do you go about talking to her parents >> [laughter] >> about money they loaned her?" Am I Did I

I want to make sure I hear it right. Is that what I heard? >> Yes. Yes, that's correct.

>> and your wife have talked about this and you two or you nominated yourself as the spokesperson. Well, I want to know what's behind this. I'm going somewhere with this. Okay.

>> Mhm. But then she also isn't I mean, up to date on everything and she So we and

we've talked about it and she's agreed to have a conversation with her parents and I think I'm kind of spearheading this and I really just want to make sure >> the Both of you are planning to sit down with the parents and this wasn't clear to me either. So this is why the follow-up. What is the goal of you all

sitting down with the parents? [laughter] I'm wondering the same thing. >> Okay, good. Um I want to know I guess what they really expect >> The money?

Yeah, the money if that's something [laughter] that like we're really supposed to pay them back for this $30 for plants even, you know, things like that. >> Yeah, but wait a second. Wait wait wait. Is it not clear to you two right now that they expect her or you two cuz you're both together now.

They have only told her oh, just pay it back whenever you can kind of afford it. >> going to I'm going to go I got to go in on this. So if I go to the bank [laughter] and I borrow, I don't know, $46,000

and I spend it on, I don't know, fake plants and some other doodads and just it adds up little over time.

>> Doodads. I like that. If I go into the bank and say, "You know what?

I don't I don't think I should pay you back because I spent this money on fake plants and whatnot." They're going to go, "We don't care. You borrowed the money and we'd like it back, right?" So it's the same thing here. It doesn't matter what she spent it on.

It clearly you don't agree with the things that she spent it on. Clear you clearly you view it as somewhat wasteful, money that shouldn't have been borrowed. That's That lives over here in a separate conversation.

I think it's I think it's really really a wrong move. This is why you called, so I'll just get this out of the way. I think it's a bad idea for you and your wife to sit down and put that in their lap. Yeah, don't do that.

>> if I borrowed money from somebody, I got to pay it back. Mhm. And I don't go down and go, "Now, hey, how much of this do you really want back?" That is so passive-aggressive.

It's not good for the relationship and I will also tell you as a guy who's been married 28 years and I love my in-laws.

Ain't no chance I'm getting involved in that conversation. That's between That's between your wife and her parents. Yes,

but Michael's conversation, the person he's really got beef with is his wife. I agree. >> That's the conversation that I agree.

You've got to let her know or maybe don't let her know, but you reconcile like, "Man, I'm struggling that I got brought in on this debt. It is for fake plants. It's just uh >> I'm willing to to pay it all back as your husband, uh but I've booked a tee time while you're talking to your parents. Let me know how it goes." I'm not getting involved in that.

I'm really not. Other than to say we owe this to your parents.

Do you? No, I would not touch that with a 10-ft pole. >> That's going to make Thanksgiving real tasty. Uh I just I think you two Now, this will

be my advice if if you and your wife were in the room with us right now, I'd go, "Hey, don't do that." Yeah. Just just own it and pay it back. I

think you're going to sleep better, don't you? >> I think the heart Like again, I just said this happened before Michael was involved, and he's like share if he could turn back time, he never would have even done this. And yet, here it is

like like John would say, "Not by his hand, but in his lap." So, there's He's just struggling with dealing with this.

And >> I feel for you. >> Yeah, I do, too. It's tough It's tough to take on debt from uh you know, a spouse who's bringing it into the relationship when you don't agree with what the debt was used for.

So, Michael, we we I I I'm only following up here because we've hit you with a lot, and we're both on the same page here. Um where do you think your wife is with this response that you called the show and we gave you the What Where do you think she sits with all this?

I think she probably agrees with it. Um but I I think I see the pain that this kind of Mhm. causes her, too. So.

Well, let me rephrase that. The only pain your wife should feel around this is the pain of paying the money back cuz you got to sacrifice. >> Yeah, right. I I don't think there needs to be I think she should come away with this going, "When I make this right, I am in good standing as a daughter.

I have fulfilled my commitment to my parents. I There shouldn't be any pain." In fact, there ought to be an emotional joy to go, "I did what was right." The only pain is the sacrifice we teach every day on this show anyway, which is continue to walk the baby steps out. I don't see any pain.

No, I think just that guilt that she has for I mean, lack of financial education

and stability in >> Well, we've all done dumb. You've heard So, well, you've heard Dave say it a million times, "We've all done dumb and stupid with money. No shame." And the best way to get rid of that guilt, Jade, give you the final word on that. You write a lot about money and emotions.

>> I do. In matter of fact, I'm going to have Christian pick up and send you a copy of what no one tells you about money because what I think will really help you guys One of the ways um to deal with guilt and shame is to set boundaries. And I think you both need to do that. You know, it's very easy for us to set boundaries for other people, but you both need to say, "You know what?

We know the information. We know what happened. It's done. We don't need to keep rehashing it.

We don't need to keep bringing it up. We're paying it, and that's that on that." And set a boundary that says, "We don't talk we don't talk about this in that way anymore of this this thing you did, this thing you did." She doesn't get to do it. You don't get to do it. It's over.

We pay it. We move on.

>> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> All right, next up is Karen in Detroit.

Karen, how can we help?

Hi. My daughter [music] is getting married pretty soon, and about 5 years ago, her sister got married, and my husband and I offered them $20,000 to cover wedding expenses,

and that worked out well.

And we've done the same with this daughter, but she um she and her fiance are

very frugal, and they would like to just spend

6 or 8,000 on their wedding, and and have asked us if they could use the rest for other costs, you know, future

house down payment or something like that. And um it's great that they're frugal. We appreciate that. But we have some real concerns about um not enough food, not

enough seating, uh too small of a They're cutting corners so much that we feel it will be a regret. It'll be what?

Um regret. That they will regret it in the future.

Okay, I got to jump right in here and let's lean in on this.

So, you and your husband feel this way.

Have you uh brought up those concerns to them specifically?

We have. And what was their response?

We're We believe it is a waste of money

to spend so much on one day.

And our values are more that we just want to save money, and we're okay if there's if

it's a real minimalist day. But they do still want to have a full dinner and 150 people. Okay, so let's lean in on

that one. Did you start walking through with them how are you going to feed 150 people?

We did. And what they say? And

um it's okay if we have minimalist food.

We don't Like what? Like coast pizza rolls? Like what are we saying?

[laughter] Well, I yeah, like do do they have a real plan is what I'm What So, I don't keep asking 100 questions. I'm I'm getting at do they have an actual plan?

And then the second question is, if they do, you just don't like it. Is that true or false?

They do have an actual plan. Okay.

>> You're embarrassed by it.

Well, we are. We're inviting a lot of

people. We're not even sure they'll have chairs.

Can I just say, and Jade will not probably will not like this. I just I'm thinking of past calls. I am

ultra conservative on wedding costs, and

I say this is a fabulous young couple,

and I say it's either a gift or it isn't. And if the money is a gift, when

I give someone a gift, all right, let me just use Sam as example. All right, I know like I know Sam loves uh shoes, for instance. If I buy Sam a pair of custom Jordans or something or other, and I give them to him, and and Sam's going to be like, "Oh my gosh, thank you." And I go, "Hey, now listen, I don't actually want you to wear these outside the house." >> [laughter] >> That's that's wild.

That's too much. But my point is I'm I Yes, it's insane, but it's a true example. >> Yeah. If I give Sam a gift of shoes, I don't get to tell Sam how and where he wears his shoes. I'm giving him a gift.

And I actually think uh you should honor

this request and need to get over it, and I would start bragging on them. I love the fact that their response to you was, "Our values are this." I love that they actually have a plan. And you know what? As much as you joke about it, if they want to offer pizza bagels, Do it.

step into it, and tell all your friends, "We want you to come honor our our our our daughter and and whatever whatever whatever and son-in-law. And and you know what? This is the most frugal couple.

It's not your normal wedding, but we're so stinking proud of them, and they're going to take what they save on the wedding, and they're going to put it to starting their life off and paying off debt, and change the narrative because I'm going to tell you, I'm preaching right now, but if they feel

what I think they've already felt from you, and you don't change that tune, there's going to be resentment around what could be the most special day of their life, but it's their special. So, I'm That's it. I'm out. That's all I got to say. I concur, my friend.

>> Wow. I 100% agree.

Because everybody has a picture of what a wedding should be.

Um you gave them You guys came up with that amount based on what you think a quote good wedding would cost is my guess. And so, the hardest part is

I think for the for the the parent and for the the child is when you're not

matching matching up. Um and I think everybody's probably experienced it who's been married. The parent wants one thing, the bride or groom wants something else, and ultimately, it's the bride or groom's wedding. Now, I got a hot take. Remember this, Karen. 50% of

the wedding attendees don't even care about the wedding. It's dudes. Any dude that's going to that wedding is going cuz his wife wants him to be there and we don't care if there's They probably like the pizza rolls. You could You could hand out peanuts. Yeah.

Guys don't care.

Only people that really care about all of it is the are women at the wedding.

What's that?

Guys have to have good food, don't they?

No. I mean, they'd be okay with pizza rolls and beer. Are you Yeah, are you kidding me? But this guy in the audience is shaking his head yes. He's >> [laughter] >> No, I'm serious. Like the average guy The average guy I'm trying to And I'm not trying to be funny. I'm actually be The average guy that you will invite to this wedding is only coming because of the social pressure to come. They would much rather send their wife and stay home and watch football. And so they're there because they have to be there.

They don't want to dress up.

>> most people fall into that camp, let's be honest. >> Okay, see, I wasn't going to speak on behalf of women cuz I don't know. I assume women love the pageantry and all that things. >> Uh it If it's a best, you know, if it's our maid of honor or like a best friend or a sister, okay, yeah, family member.

But if it's just Linda from from church

or from work, it's like uh I got to go.

I got to get a gift. >> 100%. You know why? The meal makes me stay at this place I don't want to be at longer.

>> is the best part. If you have a good cake, you're fine. >> I don't even care. I go buy cake.

If I want to buy cake, I can buy cake. for the cake. >> I I have made enough money in my life to buy cake whenever I want to. So, if I want cake, I'm not staying at a wedding for cake.

>> guys look forward to at a wedding is when they get in the car and go back home. >> [laughter] >> So, the point here, Karen, is >> couple. They don't need to spend the money on this. >> and it's okay that they're doing something different. And it's okay that you don't understand it. It's okay that it's not the way you would spend the money. I think that that's just them expressing themselves within their values and I like Ken's idea to just

Just get with it and be like this is Yeah. This is going to be fun. It's going to be different. >> And I will throw out something else cuz I've been so I know I've been so whatever you could call me plainspoken on this.

If you guys want to do something for your closest of friends, then you all go rent yourself a country club room that you can afford and you do a special fancy something or other for those people. If you really want something that's super impressive, makes you feel good.

>> Karen didn't call about them. She called about her. Right, but if if if the tables were turned and I'm just going to put me in Karen's spot, if I got was getting money from my my in-laws or my parents and they said, "Here's 20,000. We said we're going to spend it like this." And then they came to me and said, "Well, then you need to come to our party over here.

That's our country club folk." I'd be like, "I don't want to do that." >> to Karen, I'm just trying to be nice and spare your feelings.

Trust me, I get it. I really do. I understand your position. But I was just trying with a little bit of levity to go It's not as big a deal as you think.

Yeah, it's it's It's really not.

>> what I mean? No one's going to look down at you.

You raise >> about people looking down at us. You just don't want it to be Well, you said you were embarrassed. That's why I chose that language. >> As my friend would say, she calls it budge when something's like not not up to standard. I guess like low budget, like budge. You don't want it to It's a new word.

>> And it doesn't need to be glorious, just enough food and enough and enough basics. Yeah.

>> chairs You're just trying to keep like basic etiquette. Like etiquette level Exactly. is Yeah, I got it. I got it.

So, you might you might read the room a little bit and

ask questions instead of making

statements. Maybe you say, "Oh, if you do that, will there be seating for everybody? Or are you expecting Like are these standing Just ask questions.

And then maybe offer suggestions in the

form of a question. I wonder if they had a way where you could have like, you know, And just just be very light. It's just like you're like the breeze. And you mention it and you move on. You don't harp on it. Yeah, I just think get a nacho bar.

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>> [music]

>> All right, question for you folks. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? We'd love for you to take a quiz to check your progress. Now, this isn't to, you know, slap you on the hand, uh but it's a good reminder of where you are in the process, where your momentum is.

And we humans uh we need to track our progress. That's why Dave's baby steps have been so monumentally effective is because of the nature of the stages and staying with it. So, if you take our quick quiz, you can check your progress and get a personalized plan to keep you on track or get you back on track. And uh it only takes just a few minutes.

So, head to ramseysolutions.com uh or click on the link in the show notes to complete the get started assessment. That's what it's called, the get started. If you're new to the show, this is also a great thing to do as well. Now, you're you're chuckling over there.

We humans. We humans. That was funny?

It was. >> Okay, good. I like that. I like the free laugh. That's great. Let's go to Jennifer in Asheville, North Carolina.

Jennifer, how can we help?

Hi. Thanks for letting me come on your show and ask this. Um so, we just got our January

insurance bill. And apparently this year we or last year we made too much and we have lost our subsidy. So, we are now going to be paying triple what we did the previous year and it's going to come out to be about $29,000

a year.

So, um we're not in any debt. We've we

own our home. Everything's paid for.

But that's still a lot of money to just check I mean, we're very We're all blessed. We're a very healthy family. So, we go for our checkups and all that.

And so, we just we talked about maybe like just putting $29,000 in an account for an emergency, but then there's always like well, the what if, you know, something substantial happen and worrying about that. So, we just kind of wanted to know like if if there were other options out there because Well, did you shop it? Or did it just lapse over and then this

is what you were stuck with? >> it it lapsed over, but then we shopped within cuz we kind of wanted to stay with Blue Cross Blue Shield because I know our doctors accept that and I'm afraid of going Sure. And getting like out of network and whatnot. But even within like that was still the cheapest option for us for our family of five.

Yeah. Well, I will say

um when you are independently getting insurance, it's expensive. It is. That's just part of it. And that plus insurance

right now in general is expensive. It's gone up uh substantially. So, your

options are to try to see what else is out there. But if you've decided that Blue Cross Blue Shield is what I want because it's in our network and it has the doctors we want, then there's part of that that you may have to own.

Now, let me find out uh can this fit in

your budget? Like what does this mean for your budget? That's the biggest question. Yeah, I mean, like I said, we we own all our our homes and and our cars and everything. Um and we net about 234

between the two of us a year. So, it's >> Yeah, so you can afford it. Yes, it's just it's I just like >> a pain in the butt. >> use it. You know, and I'm I'm glad we don't use it. I'm not saying I I hope we spend all that money and make it worth our while. But it just I just it bothers me so bad that I feel like we're just flushing that money pretty much down the drain. >> Yeah, well, you're not. It It's both, right? Let's just say both sides of it.

It Our insurance system is broken, right? Healthcare system is broken. So, it's way too expensive. There is that and I agree with you on that. But then there's a part of it that insurance it it's insurance. So, it's there when you need it. And the the hope is that really that you don't really ever need it for its full value.

That's the whole point.

And that's just kind of an acceptance thing at that point is I kind of just have to accept that until I'm the point at the point of wealth where I can self-insure, I need this. And it's a

Here's what I had to do and I know that this is it's a big mind thing, but you have to train your mind to say it's a blessing that I can afford to have the insurance that I want and need versus I can't believe I have to pay this. I had to do that. It's like taxes. It's like I can't believe I have to pay these taxes, but then you go well, I'm so grateful I have the income, right?

It's that whole push and pull. I'm not saying that it's easy, but it's a good mental flip. Can what you got?

Want to mention them. They are partners of the Ramsey Show, health insurance brokers. So, what I love about them is they're going to go out and search and try to find the best deal. So, I I will make sure you get connected to them.

Christian will connect you. Make sure that you get there, but Health Trust Financial is the organization. We believe in them and I think they are worth calling so that you can shop around and let's see if you can get a better deal. Don't just assume that you're stuck. But do you know that it is going to be expensive?

Yes. Yes. Yeah, so you've got to be open to companies that are out there. Just tell them you're a Ramsey Show listener. good care of you. Great great organization.

Yeah, so and then look at your options, but I know that that's like And again, I I heard you and that's why talking to them, you're going to get to walk through all of the will we lose our doctors? Do we have to change it? I know how important that is. So, they'll take good care of you.

Okay, that's good to know. Well, thank you for reassuring me that we shouldn't just like go out cuz like I said, we've talked about just opening an account and putting the money in that, but then that scares me. So, With five kids, that's a that's a big risk.

Oh, family of five. Yeah, but still.

>> [laughter] >> Jennifer just had just had a an episode.

Five, what?

>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Unless you know something I don't.

Yeah, oh no, no, no, no. No, I don't know anything. >> No, we don't know anything. >> [laughter] >> I just I and I'm not saying this to be uh scary. I'm just saying I would not do what you were saying about opening account and just putting money because Listen, if if somebody runs into you on the street and everybody's in the car, that there's medical bills. Do you see what I'm saying? And $10,000 or $20,000

in an in an in an an account is not going to help you. It's not going to cover that. Okay. So, just What is What did the signs used to say? Keep calm and pay your premium?

Keep calm and pay your premium cuz you need it. Yeah, thanks for the call. I just need somebody to talk me down off of that by the way. You're going to be okay, but again, I mean, your first call is hang up and and and call our friends Health Trust.

So, they they will they will be a good resource for you. And remember when you have situations like this, options, options, options. Find every option possible and it just kind of helps you in this emotional process cuz it's tough stuff. So, I'm so sorry about this.

We the people need to start throwing these bombs out at the election dates because this is something that Congress can fix. They can fix it. And they got to fix it. It's unbelievable. It's real real real. I mean, health health care is not a luxury.

You know what I mean? It should be just a basic kind of right that we all have access to. >> got plenty of money. So, needs to be fixed. We need reform.

All right, let's go to Matt in Washington, D.C. Matt, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. Sure. So, my wife and I are working on baby steps four, five, and six.

We're currently contributing 15% of our income to our Roth retirements, our 529s, and we're putting any extra income on our mortgage.

Um the more I listen, the more I learn about mutual funds and it being a big topic on the show. So, I was thinking of changing how we're paying off our mortgage and only making the minimum payment and opening an investment account to deposit all of our extra income in to take advantage of the mutual fund growing at a higher rate of return. And when that mutual fund would hit our mortgage payoff value, to take that to cash that out and do one lump sum payoff.

Listen, there are worse things you could do. That's for sure.

Um and I want you to hear that. I'm going to give you the answer that I I think is is the best answer, but I want

you to hear that what you're talking about is not a bad idea by any stretch of the imagination, especially if your horizon for doing this is beyond five years. It's not a bad idea. The only my only caveat for this is sometimes when money

is sitting, other things come up, Ken, that might

give us a reason to pull it out. So, for instance, instance, the idea of if you have the money in your hand every month to double the payment or whatever that amount is, going ahead and putting it on your mortgage so that it's done, the action is finished, is is a good thing versus having a stack of money in a brokerage where I don't know, maybe a trip to Turks and Caicos comes up and it just sounds so so good and you're like, well, we do have the 12,000 sitting there. It it's tempting is all I'm saying.

Now, you do sound like the type of guy who would never be tempted to do to do anything, but I'm just saying. >> Yeah, we just want you to work the baby steps. The baby steps work and they avoid all of that temptation. So, don't try to rework the plan.

The plan works for so many people, but you're doing great. Appreciate the call.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

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Not available in all states. >> Alrighty, today's question comes from Sarah in New Jersey. She says my spouse thinks that line items in every dollar should be a sinking fund because if we don't use the money that month, it rolls over the next month for future use.

Okay. This includes things such as utilities, insurance, food, and spending. I've tried to explain to him that some things can be a sinking fund such as HVAC replacement, vacations, or savings for a vehicle, but normally monthly bills are not. Can you explain the difference for him? Yes.

So, that question was a little in the weeds if you're just listening, but let's kind of break it down. So, when you have your budget, obviously the income's at the top and then down at the bottom in every dollar, you put all your expenses in there. That's everything from groceries to grandma's birthday, everything you could spend money on goes on in the budget. Now, there are certain things that are not just monthly expenses. There are things that have the ability to happen every once in a while, but be a

larger part of your income. Something like car maintenance, Ken, or something like if you know, yeah, your HVAC needs replacement. You can put those things on the budget and you can do something on the budget that's called a sinking fund.

It simply means that every single month you're putting aside a little in order to have a pool of money there. So, it's just like a little mini mini savings fund. So, if I know my HVAC is going to cost me $3,000, every month I can put

aside $200 on my budget and it's going to accumulate that money in a little pool for me so that it's there when I need it after a certain number of months has passed. So, it sounds like what her spouse wants to do is make a sinking

fund for every single item on the budget, which is a horrible idea because sinking funds are for things that we cannot cash flow in a single month.

That's the best way to explain it. I can In a single month, I can pay the cable bill or people don't have cable anymore.

I can pay the YouTube TV bill, right? I enjoy I enjoy cable. Okay, that's good.

Sports channels. Direct TV, you keep that. All right. >> [laughter] >> In a single month, Ken can pay his Direct TV bill. I can pay my YouTube TV bill. We don't need to set aside a little each month to pay that. That's very confusing. It creates a lot of issues. So, Sarah,

you are correct. And husband, who will remain unnamed, yes, let's let's utilize

the sinking funds for large ticket items or large ticket repairs or trips or whatever that we cannot fund in a single month or even really in two single months, right? That's what sinking funds are for. Yep, love that. All right, let's go to Al, who joins us in Washington, D.C. Al, how can we help?

Hello, thanks for taking my call. So, uh the reason I'm calling is um I'm married. I'm 31 years old. My wife is 30. Uh we've finally thinking about having our first baby this year, hopefully.

Pray to God that it happens.

Um so, with that, I've always been kind of financially savvy.

Um I've always maxed out my TSP, maxed out Roth IRA. My wife is maxing the same thing.

So, we're in pretty good shape. I'm of the mindset of since we're planning to have a kid of maybe insuring myself with either

term or whole life insurance. I'm more inclined towards life insur- whole life insurance. Um so, when I bring it up to my wife, uh she believes that um I may be jumping the gun a little bit.

Um and that's her her mindset, the way she explained it to me was we're going to be incurring to another expense. Uh the way I see it is more as an asset and you know, protection for you know, her and the baby in case something were to happen unfortunately to me. Mhm. Um so, that's that's kind of where I'm at. Um I'm able to cover all expenses of the house. She's currently a nurse.

Um so, she everything that she earns um

she uses it and then she invests it into whatever she wants.

Um so, I'm able to cover all expenses. I just want to know more uh of your what you guys um I guess uh the mindset that you guys uh uh you know, have on this. I'm trying to see if I could get, you know, insurance on on myself more so for protection and hopefully to leave something behind for my kids and grandkids one day. Well, I think that Al, your sentiment is right on.

The fact that you're thinking ahead for about your family and you're considering um life insurance is exactly right.

conversation to bring up that I want to have insurance in case, God forbid, something happens to me. [clears throat] And your wife's carrying a baby or is going to be carrying a baby. Anyway, she's in a sensitive state and that can be tough and you know, to kind of reconcile in your brain. So, I would just form it to her like this. I would say, "Listen, uh there's going to be people in my life that are dependent on my income. And if

something, God forbid, happened to my income, how would you guys live? How would you It would just give me a lot of peace if I knew that if something happened to me, you would have plenty of money. You would have, you know, and you can talk about what that amount is. I would say 10 times your income, that you would have this million dollars or whatever it is sitting there in case something happens.

That just gives me peace of mind. It's a way that I can love you guys really well. And it's not very expensive, right? If you can have that conversation with you with her, I think that she'll um understand where you're coming from.

And and that's correct. My mindset is more so So, I have a couple rental properties. I have I have I'm I've been investing to the market and all that stuff. My mindset is

uh for protection and then also how can we also make it a solid foundation for everything else when you you know, later down the >> Al, I'm I'm going to let I'm going to let Jade walk you through this, but let's be very, very clear. Whole life is actually not insurance.

Okay, it's not It's not No. No. No. I

want Jade to explain it, but you really got to understand cuz you call us and what we teach You need term life insurance at 10 times your income. That is what's going to protect your family. That's what's going to take care of your wife and kiddo if something happens to you.

So, I don't know if somebody's selling you on this, but it's not insurance.

It's a horrible financial product.

That's our position. You want term life Zander insurance. You want to call them up and have them walk you through how unbelievably affordable, by the way, term life is. But I'll let Jade take the the the the the the thing on the why here, but the we have never, ever, ever,

nor will we ever recommend whole life.

In fact, if you want to get Dave Ramsey really hacked off, you call and you ask him about whole life. You know? It just It's a bad, bad product.

I'm not going to get mad at you, Al, but I heard you say cuz I think you have the right underlying thought. I heard you say you want protection. And so, let's talk about the best way to get that. So, with whole life policy, let's pretend you're paying I don't know. Let's make round numbers. Let's pre- And And these are going to be low. Let's pretend you're paying 100 bucks a month for a whole life.

Well, part of that money is going to go to your premium.

And then part of that money is going to go in another fund that's a cash value.

Okay? And part of that money is being invested

at a very low rate of return.

And other part is going towards your death benefit that if you die, this is the money that your family gets.

Well, why split that payment when you can pay get term life insurance and just

pay for the policy. And then whatever money is left, you can invest on your own because you're into investing at a higher rate of return. So, all we're saying is why give somebody money that

they're going to invest poorly for you when you could invest it at a higher rate of return for yourself. That's part one. But part two of this, Al, is if you

die, they don't get the cash value. All that cash value that is accumulating at a very, very slow rate at of return, if you pass away and that money's sitting there, it's not going to go to your family. The insurance company's going to keep it. And the only way that you could get access to that is if you cashed out the policy, if you got to it early, and at that point you're going to have to pay a bunch of fees. So, it's not

it's not a fair product for you. It's almost like having to choose one or the other. And so, for that reason, I'd say, "Hey, just spend half the amount on term

life and invest the rest on your own." Does that make sense?

It makes sense. I understand your positions on term uh life insurance. Um I was I guess with the mindset of seeing

it as double uh two perspectives on things. So, one being protection uh and then also >> is not I Mine gives you protection, too.

So, there's no upper hand on the protections. So, you got to You got to have another argument cuz there's no upper hand on whole life for protections. >> [music] >> So, unless you have a better argument, I'm just telling you the facts. >> Jade's right. And the real argument is is the stock market's averaged 12, 11, 12% over the over the the lifetime of the stock market versus 4 and 1/2% at most on whole life. [music] >> as well park it in a HYSA at that point.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union [music] Studio.

I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is alongside. We're excited that you're with us. 888-825-5225

is the phone number to jump in. Let's stay in our uh neighborhood here, Nashville, Tennessee. Zach is joining us now. Zach, how can we help?

Hey, Ken. Hey, Jade. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's going on?

Hey, so my wife and I, I'll try to be brief. Uh we're 32 years old. We have $177,000 in debt. Um we make about $174,000

combined. Um about 35, 40,000 of that's overtime for me. Um but we we have a tax return and a company bonus coming up that's around a $14,000 lump sum. We're trying to see if we should take that money and pay down um to to get rid of our auto loans that we have and get into something cheaper or if we should just use our car loans as a line item and take that money and start doing our debt snowball.

And also, we're [clears throat] neither of us are investing at the moment. Likely, yes, but I want to hear more.

Tell us what's the cars and tell us what's everything else.

Sure. Um so, we've got the the vehicles between myself and my wife, uh $44,000.

Mine's 21, hers is 22, roughly. Um

$81,000 in student loans. Uh we both

um are almost finished with our She finished her bachelor's degree last year and I'm finishing mine this spring.

Um and then 52,000 in consumer debt, like credit cards, line of credit, personal loans, etc.

Okay. Okay. And the personal loans,

when you break them down, what's the smallest one?

Uh we have some as small as $3,500 and

then we have others. Uh I'd say the highest is um around $10,000. >> Okay, so between 35 Okay, good to know.

Um what are the payments on these cars?

Uh so, the payment on my truck is $379

and then her Honda Pilot is $457.

Okay. And when they What did they originate at? I'm trying to see if they were ever too expensive for you. What did they originate at?

Uh so, I mean, mine was 23,500.

Um I'm I think I could I think I could sell mine. They're both used vehicles.

Uh I could sell mine for probably what it's worth. She's got about $4,000 negative equity in hers.

Okay. Um if you wanted to sell them to go faster, you 100% could. It How much is the How

much is the the bonus and the

refund? The the tax return is about $12,000 and then 2,000 is a company bonus and I just updated my W-4 to change my tax withholding cuz obviously that tax refund is a little little too much. Um you could do that. I don't I'm not going

to say you have to. They were never like

crazy outside of your range. Maybe you do one and keep the other. That's totally up to you. $14,000 though could knock out lots

of these smaller loans and I think that would give you probably free up a similar amount of money and give you a bigger boost cuz there's something about when you've got like 20 a list of 20 debts and it goes from like 20 to I don't know, 12. That feels great. So, how many of these personal loans do you think you could knock out with the 14,000?

Yeah, I know several of the credit cards

the credit cards and some of the smaller personal loans.

I think we could take probably five of those off the table.

Get us some quick wins have a little bit of margin there to start tackling the next one. I just want to make sure if you guys would maybe start that way versus cuz these aren't like crazy high payments that we're paying. Um and I commute to Nashville for work. I actually live in Cookeville, but I commute for work. So, having a reliable vehicle is helpful. If you guys said hey, get a get a beater with a heater, you know, then we would do that.

We just was curious kind of what you guys thought. So, >> Yeah, a lot of times is if you can pay off the car in two years or less and it be as part of your snowball, uh you could keep it as long as it was never too big of a chunk of your income to begin with as far as it being an item that's going down in value. At $174,000

of income, to have two $20,000 $23,000

cars is not a bad thing. It's just that you went into debt for them. So, I would do it. Uh Ken would. I probably I would too if I

were in your shoes, but I'm not saying you have to. >> Yeah, yeah, we're not telling you have to, but I I would tell you that I am of a mindset that I want to knock this

stuff out and I want to do it as fast as I can and I'm willing to suffer uh short-term so that I can win long-term.

What were I'm just curious, which way were you leaning prior to calling?

It's been a 50/50 split. Um we we've talked about getting debt-free for a while. We're long-time listeners.

Um >> What do you mean by 50/50? What do you mean?

I I think me and my wife have had discussions saying hey, let's just sell them both and and you know, use some of this $14,000 to you know, move both these vehicles and get in something cheaper. Let's buckle down. Let's do it.

And then the other half of me says, you know, I commute quite a bit, you know, an hour each way to Nashville Airport based on my job and so it's like you know, if if if I'm trying to make that commute in a vehicle that's not >> So, you know what I would do? Clear out get rid of one. Keep one and I'm with Jade. That was exactly what I was thinking. Keep the most >> Truck has the negative equity. So, what you pay the $4,000 and maybe keep my truck for reliability purposes.

>> No, no, I'd flip it. I'd flip it because you don't want to be spending money that you don't need to right now.

The neg if if you keep end up paying off the car, the negative equity is not going to matter. This isn't going to be a fun conversation, probably not a popular proposal, but again, I'm going to tell you exactly I wish Stacy were here. She'd say this is exactly what Ken would say. I would say, all right, we're going to we're not going to sell the one with the negative equity.

>> Yeah, and you're both taking one for the team just in a different way. That's exactly what I would propose. Now, I don't know how your wife's going to feel about it, but I'm calling balls and strikes right now. >> Ken, you and I are on the same page.

Hands in the center. And by the way, and and to validate I'm talking about it.

This one has done it. She and Sam when they got their story going, they went down to one car. So, I I believe in what I'm going to call shocking the body. I learned this term from a friend of mine, you know, in college.

He was like, when you start a new workout plan, you got to shock the body, right? And you just go in on a completely new routine and what he was talking about is you get the muscles all of them just like what is happening and you start to get real returns.

I believe in it.

In in most cases, I almost always am a little bit more aggressive because I believe in shocking your system to go, holy cow, we have burned the ships. We

are in on this deal. Butterfly. Yeah, so I agree with Jade. I think she's right.

I don't want you to hear me saying you have to do that.

I'm just giving you an alternative.

>> It all depends on how on board your wife is with this. Because you have to be you have to do this in a way that you're both going to be fully committed. Um and every it doesn't sound

like it, but every once in a while it's like if you go too extreme too quickly, the other spouse is too shocked and wants to wants to bail out. So, um It's a great point. You know, I agree with Ken. Okay.

Oh, she is. Okay. THEN I THINK SHE'LL she'll like this plan because it's it's the best of both worlds. You're still safe on the road. You still have one that's a hoopty. You still clear out $457 of payments. You still, you know,

you're not eating up the whole 14,000 on getting two new cars. You're only, you know, eating up maybe [music] four or five of it and you're still you're still knocking out, I don't know, four of these smaller debts. So, it's really good momentum boost. >> Massive momentum. I love that, coach Jade. I feel like you just got out the clipboard. You're drawing up a play in the timeout.

>> [laughter] >> I love that. You know, there's I'm going to tell you something. >> [music] >> Momentum, I don't care what area of your life you need momentum. When you start to experience it, when you haven't had it, woo man, it is nice.

>> Yes, it is. It can really set you free.

Hey, love the call. You guys are going to do it. We're rooting for you.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

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/taxpro. That's ramseysolutions.com/taxpro to find CPAs and enrolled agents that have been vetted by the Ramsey team.

Jesse is up next in North Carolina.

Jesse, how can we help?

Hi, thanks for taking my call. I am a single mother to a 10-month-old baby and I have $25,000 in debt and a low income.

So, I wanted to know how I can get ahead and plan for the future. Specifically, my goal is to be debt-free and eventually save for a home for my daughter and I. Great.

Tell us what your low income is.

I make $2,667 so $2,667 after taxes per month.

>> What do you do?

I work from home for an insurance company. Doing what?

I do customer service with providers.

Okay. And you do you need to work from home just because of the little one?

I would prefer to Yeah. Do you have family or friends that if you had to, I'm not making you commit to this, but I just want to know, is it possible that other people could watch your child?

It is possible, but not consistently.

Is the the 25,000 of debt, is that a

one-time thing that's that's done and over or is the debt accumulating because you're using a credit card to fill a gap?

I'm I don't use credit cards, but it is accumulating because of interest. It does consist of student loans, some credit card and then medical bills and personal debt. Okay. So, it even with

you paying the minimum, obviously it's been accumulating over time is what you're saying.

Yes. >> Okay. Do you have any control over your budget or do you feel like you're paycheck to paycheck and not knowing where your money's coming and going?

I've been using the EveryDollar app every month and so that's been helping

me to see where everything is going, but

I kind of just feel stuck right now. Are

you at 40 hours a week or is it below?

I'm at 40 hours a week guaranteed and I've also been working an extra 10 hours per week with the exception of holidays to work some overtime. Does that bump you up from the number that you gave us the the or is that the did that include your overtime?

So, with overtime, I can make an extra

$100 to $200 per paycheck, so that doesn't include overtime. Okay. So, we could say say two to $400 if you're getting overtime in addition.

Yes. Um Ken can speak to the the career side of this cuz I wonder if there's just and I believe there is, if there's another type of job you can do from home with your skill set that can just pay a little bit more. What's your hourly rate or are you on salary?

I am hourly. I make $21 per hour.

Yeah, the reason I went that line of direction of questions right out of the gate is um the answer to your question is and Jade will walk you through where can we cut, make sure you really got your budget in line. But you're going to need to make some more money.

You just are going to. It's going to make you you're getting out of debt. Now, here's the great news and Jade will give you more, you know, insight on this, but the 25,000 doesn't freak me out for you. However, we do need to get more income. And especially if you're going to want to save up money for a down payment on a home. So, I'd like to see you getting in that 30 $35 [snorts]

an hour. So, it's can we take and here are the questions you're going to ask and I'm going to give you some resources at the end of the call because I want to get Jade involved here real quick and let's see what we can squeeze out of our current income. But I you need to adopt the mindset that you can [snorts] make more money.

And you should make more money.

And so, now it's a question of how do you take the current experience you have in customer service and can you jump up the ladder a little bit? For instance, one thing I think you ought to be thinking about is you know, contacting a company like Belay, who's been a partner of the show for a while and involved with other events. I know their owners and they're one of the best agencies in the country for virtual executive assistants. Yes.

And so, the very nature of the job is working from home and virtual. But when you're working for an executive, you're going to make more than $21 an hour. So, if you have that kind of administrative skill set and some experience there,

that's the type of thing that you've got to open up your mind to and that would change your life dramatically if I sat you down with Jade and said, "Hey, great news, Jade. She just went from 21 an hour to 35 an hour." Changes everything.

I mean, $500 would change your world right now because there's part of this, I agree with Ken, got to get the income up. I'm guessing your budget is pretty slim as it is. Am I wrong or

Most definitely correct. You've cut it you've cut it down as far as you can go. So, there's really there's two plays here. You can do what Ken said, which is really really actively seek to find other jobs that pay more and in the meantime, do your best you do as much overtime as you can because if you can keep if you can keep your minimum payment at just the right amount, right?

If you can kind of figure out what that amount is where it's not aggressively paying the debt down, but it's also not allowing it to creep up anymore. You're kind of just keeping it at bay and staying above water. There's that's good, right? We don't want it the interest to accumulate, but I think if you can do that while looking for a higher paying job, that that's your only choice at this point because, you know, income is the magical elixir to you know, to fix this problem.

Now, if you find yourself in a position, let's just can you love doing this and it's so true. You find yourself in a position where you have either found a job or the job you're making you're able to you know, make a little bit more and you're at that point where the 25,000 isn't really accumulating, maybe it's slowly slowly going down. There is part of this where you've got a baby and you're in a season of life and sometimes there's seasonalities that will limit you and there's just a part of that that you accept and go, well, right now this is where I'm at.

Maybe when this baby goes, you know, it 4 years from now your life looks totally different.

So, both of those are things to kind of look at and accept and understand. What are your values during this season? Obviously, it's to stay home. To what extent and what does it look like for you financially? Is this a season of treading water and not going any deeper in debt or is this a season of trying to pay off debt and you get to decide that.

Um you're looking at a 4 or 5 year horizon before this kid goes to school, so that's a lot of time. So, you get to decide is this first year that I'm just focusing on the baby and then when he turns one, that's where I'm going to try to kick it into high gear. Do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. You've got that to play out. How how connected of a person are you? And what I mean by connected, I'm not talking about celebrities or any of that nonsense and I'm Mr. I'm Mrs. Network.

I'm saying, are you pretty connected to friends and and family group in your area where you live or are you kind of just a real small circle?

I am connected to two local churches.

>> Right. Yeah. So, you know what I Jesse, I don't know how aggressive you're being right now, but I think now's the time. I would never bet against you because you're a single mom.

I think the single toughest person on the planet is a single mom. I've always had mad respect for you. And and I think you got to really believe in yourself and go, "No, wait a second. I've got a good job." I mean, you got a good job.

>> Yes. Okay? And you found it you found that somehow. So, what must you do to find a better version of what you're doing now?

you, but I want Jade to react to it instantly just so you cuz we've not scripted this, all right? If she could make an additional two grand a month, how quickly does she get out of debt and then get through baby step three and three B. Well, with the extra money, that's 1 year. An extra 2,000 bucks a month, that's $24,000 in a year.

>> Jesse, are you picking up what she's laying down?

Yeah, I can see that. That would be amazing. >> here's the fun exercise and I love what Jade said to you. I don't want you get off this call and be stressed cuz you're doing something so important right now, which is raising a human being, okay?

And you're managing to to kind of get through, okay?

But if you could figure out how I can make an additional two grand a month, it is life changing, yes or no?

Yes. Yeah. Now, listen. This is where the connections and the the network of people come in. You go, "Hey, I've been listening to Ramsey show. I called him.

I got a plan, but I need help with the plan, all right? I know how to budget.

I'm going to get better at budgeting, but I need better professional opportunities and the right people want to help somebody like you. But this becomes your number one job outside of your regular job is to find better better work. Now, here's what I want to do to help you, okay? I'm going to give you some information.

I'm going to give you my Find the Work You're Wired to Do book that has the Get Clear Assessment in it. Take it. Let it AI spit out some great opportunities for you. Hang on the line.

Good things are coming for you, Jesse.

>> [music]

>> Hey, good folks. Dr. John Delony here.

Don't you think life is too short to hate Mondays? Listen, you're worth loving the work you do and where you do it. So, guess what? Ramsey Solutions is hiring. If you're ready to join an amazing team that's all about changing lives and spreading hope, we want to see your application. Right now, we're hiring for technology, sales, marketing, writing, copy editing, and creative roles. Check out all our job postings at ramseysolutions.com/careers.

That's ramseysolutions.com/careers.

>> [music]

[music]

>> On the debt-free stage in the lobby here at Ramsey Solutions are Colin and Megan.

Welcome. Hello. Yeah, I guess you guys are here to do a debt-free scream. That's why they have you on that stage. Am I right? >> Yes, sir. Uh nothing gets by me. I am on

top of the details today. >> I see that. Yes, sir. Where are you guys from? Uh Destin, Florida. Oh, that's a nice place to be from.

Any chance I can hop a ride back?

Absolutely. Okay, that'd be great. I'll just tell Stacy and the kids, "I'll be back in a couple days. It's going to be great. Going to see some friends." Uh I'm kidding. Don't worry about that. Nothing to be alarmed about. All right, give us the numbers. How much debt did you pay off? $215,514.72.

Wow, we don't want to miss that. Okay.

And how long did that take? 23 very long months. 23 long months. And what

what did that consist of? What's the debt? All student loans. All student loans? Just you? Just me. Wow.

And that's it? You didn't have any other debt but student loans? >> No, sir. What what was that for?

Pharmacy school. A private pharmacy school. Wow. So, please tell me that means you got some income coming in.

Yes, ma'am. What was the income during this? Uh starting at around 164,000

and then ending at 254,000. Woah.

Help the math. Help me with the math.

What in the world? >> That was a lot of overtime. Like in the month of June, I I maybe had six or seven days off in totality. Like we just

we both went after it. What what were you living off? I want to know your monthly budget that just went towards you guys. That did not go towards the debt. >> [laughter] >> It was very little of ourselves. I would drive home for lunch every day. You see ramen noodles almost every day of the week for work. >> Oh my word. >> Now, is it the healthier ramen noodles or is it the stuff I ate in college? The stuff the orange packet. Merchant, the orange packet. I'll tell you what.

[clears throat] >> There would be several days I would warm up ramen noodles and drive 30 minutes to her her work and give her ramen noodles for Rice and beans was our go-to.

>> you are a good man. Oh my heart.

>> [laughter] >> I'm going to tell you something. It's true. If if Mrs. Coleman would let me eat those, I would eat those. But they are they're delicious. [laughter] >> They are. They're terrible for you.

I could pound telling you wow. So you took one for the team for 23 months you ate chicken ramen. Well, did you at least vary it the flavor a little bit?

Did you get the beef? >> bit. Yeah, all the time. Okay, good good.

>> way, what do those cuz I think this is good information for a lot of people. What do those go for now cuz back in my day in college I'm dating myself you could get 10 of those for a buck.

>> Yeah. How what's the cost of these today? >> yeah. I don't know. We shop at Aldi like completely so that's kind of a hard question. >> know how much they cost. No. Wow. So tell me I now I'm I'm entrenched now.

Tell me a day's tell me what you eat in a day. Um >> Ramen. That was the whole day. It'd [laughter] be ramen every now every now and then we'd mix it up do peanut butter sandwiches but that was it.

>> No jelly? No jelly. No, he's weird. He doesn't eat jelly on his peanut butter and jelly. I wasn't going to I wasn't going to say that but since you said it I do think it's weird. I do. It saves money too though. >> [laughter] >> What's breakfast? Just like a bowl of oatmeal just oats. Whose breakfast? I don't know her. What? Wow. This is extreme.

>> this is gazelle. >> Yeah. This is gazelle intensity. Okay, all right. So we're having fun with this but you guys really really busted it here. Okay, take us into that. What were

some of the emotions that you dealt with

during this extreme gazelle intensity flavored by ramen?

Um I would say like [snorts] frustration given so much money. Mhm. Over that like she basically worked for free cuz you know her whole paycheck was just going towards the loans. So it was that frustration of like hey all this money is really belongs to somebody else having you know, push that frustration. Yeah.

>> And for me it was really fear like I I was always afraid that I wasn't going to accomplish or we weren't going to accomplish what we set out to do. Like I don't we didn't have to do it in 23 months. We wanted to. My goal was always to pay it off before he retired from the military and so like that fear and that pressure I actually put on both of us of what if we don't actually do that?

You know, if we did it in 5 years that's great. I mean any amount of time less than 10 or the rest of our lives is better.

ago? What was the catalytic Well, I'm seeing giggles. I like where this might be going. What happened 23 months ago that decided that you guys came together and said we're going to do this? So towards the end of our pharmacy

And I'm the free spirit so I'm like we can pay a thousand dollars for the rest of our lives and get this out of our way eventually. Um And then one day being the free spirit I impulsively put us in the negatives by buying a pair of headphones. And I was like there's got to be a better way. >> [laughter] >> While she was wrapping up pharmacy school I read Total Money Makeover at Barnes & Noble.

And then I was like hey we can do this and then uh it kind of started. >> Did you say you read it at Barnes & Noble? You didn't buy it. You just went there to read it.

>> [laughter] >> I listen I thought the same thing. The dude just admitted didn't buy Dave's book just went in there and treated it like it was a library.

>> [laughter] >> raise your hand if you've done that before. >> I've done it. I've done it. I've done it. I got to admit it I love your honesty my man. Confession's good for the soul. Wow. Okay, so so you're

reading the book. All right and you're getting this in your system here. You're going okay and you're the free spirit and you come home one night and tell her hey babe I've been reading this book. Is that how this went down? Pretty much.

Yeah, yeah. I mean I was petrified. So that fear of being negative is not great. So that fear got you all in? Oh, 100%. I mean I've always been like a penny pincher and I've always you know oh god where's my next meal coming from kind of person. So like when he came to me with this yes absolutely say less.

Wow. Wow. Okay, say I I have a question.

I saw the flash the photo up and there was a whole wall and on the wall said our Y. What was under that? What what's there? >> Oh, I like that. Oh, look at it.

>> [laughter] >> So right before we started doing the journey of like paying this off I bought these thermometers on Amazon and so we broke down how many loans we had and you'll see one of them is 6250 and so every time we would pay off a loan we would color it in and so each loan or like benchmark cuz some of them are some pretty hefty loans we would have a benchmark. So like I'm going to be honest 75% of it was food motivated.

So okay, we paid off this much now let's go get some food. >> Yes. Yes. I've been [laughter] saying that. That's what I've been saying. Milestones. I'm sorry. I'm very excited.

>> I feel like I should get out of the way. There's a lot a lot of connection happening. >> [laughter] >> So >> Very good. >> Give us an example. What would you go get? Chipotle 100%. So you reward

yourself with a non-ramen meal. >> Yeah, it's it's not enough to throw you off track. It's just enough to keep you going. I like it.

>> What about dessert? Did you ever get any dessert? Can please no. It's just the benchmark.

I apologize. [laughter] I I apologize. I am just >> of spending 12 cents they get to spend a dollar and 12 cents. >> Oh, after all that ramen I would need some sugar.

That's all I'm saying. Okay, so what would you all say to people that are listening watching is the key to working the baby steps and getting out of debt? What's the key? I would say communication.

We've been married almost 15 years now. So it's kind of like building a budget for the first time actually trying to work through that. Um it can be difficult and kind of showing yourself grace too in the beginning like hey we're learning a new you know way of life. Um so trying to show yourself that grace.

I would say like the whole process has just been very therapeutic as a couple actually. Like learning I mean I've known him since I was 19 but like really learning like how he spends how he saves it's just just do it.

mean it really is hard and yes it matters how much you make but it really doesn't. It's determination and it's perseverance. Like say you want to do it write it down and do it. Boom.

I would say it flies by too like before you know it you're out of it. So you know we started this like $215,000 like this will take forever and as soon as we got on the other side I was like that actually flew by like like nothing and it feels so free now. Have you I think people really want to know this.

Yes. Yes. >> [laughter] >> This guy JUST LIKES RAMEN.

OH, THAT IS so fantastic.

Uh okay, so how old are you two?

I'll be 37 this year. And I'll be 35 in July. So now how has this changed your perspective about your future now being debt free? Oh, feels amazing.

Like I haven't I again being free being like do what you want go where you want and not have like just the freedom like hey I can move it you know a different career if I want to. I can you know whatever it may be just we have that freedom in life to just you know move forward. And it's like a level of stability that I never had growing up something that I've craved my entire life and like we we got that. We have >> see you.

stability.

Are you still in the military, sir? I am, sir. What what branch? Uh army.

Well, thank you for serving our country. You're a great American. >> All right, thank you. Absolutely. Well, there it is another young couple. Isn't it fun just to see like a complete future? You guys are going to be millionaires. You're going to have all that stability and you earned it. All right, you guys ready? Okay, here we go.

We got Colin and Megan from Destin, Florida. They paid off $215,000 and some some some some some in 23 months making $164,000 to $254,000.

Colin Megan you inspire us all. Count us

down. Let's hear your debt free scream.

THREE TWO ONE. WE'RE DEBT [screaming] FREE.

YES, YOU ARE.

>> [applause] >> BUT NOT RAMEN FREE.

>> [laughter] >> BIG DISTINCTION. >> SO FUN, isn't it? Excellent.

>> Major intensity. That they put a beautiful picture on what gazelle intensity looks like. Folks, it's worth it. You heard it from them.

Hey guys, what's up? It's Jade and I'm pumped for the new year and I hope you are too. But the problem is most people start the new year with a lot of promises and no real plan. You know how it is. I'm going to save money or I'm going to get my financial act together.

But without a plan you just wing it and hope it works out. Listen, don't play yourself. I want you to win and our EveryDollar app is the game changer you need. In 15 minutes EveryDollar helps you build a plan based on where you're at with money right now.

And every day the app coaches you with ways to find extra money so you can beat debt and build wealth faster. It's like having me in your pocket helping you stay on track all year long. So don't just wish your money works out.

Download the EveryDollar budget app and get started right now for free.

>> [music]

[music] >> Our scripture of the day Romans 13

verse seven. Give to everyone what you owe them. If you owe taxes, pay taxes. If revenue then revenue. If respect >> [music] >> then respect. If honor then honor.

And our quote of the day as we celebrate Dr. Martin Luther King is from Dr.

Martin Luther King. The time is always right to do what is right.

That's good. Simple but profound. Yes.

>> had a way with words. He did. I love it.

All right, let's go to Mike in California. Mike, how can we help?

Um I've been on the Dave Ramsey program

for a while me and the wife. Um we got all of our bills paid off. We're able to buy a couple of cars cash.

Um we're at the point of wanting to pay our house off but I was married prior

and I got put in a modification cuz I was going to let the house go. So there's a $50,000 balloon payment at the

end of the loan and we're about 10 and a

half years left.

And that's just on the loan and then I have a $50,000 balloon payment. Can you

refinance out of that?

Well, the problem is I got a 2% interest. Nobody's going to touch that.

I'm saying >> I'm saying? So Go ahead. You can't refinance that loan.

You can't call up Churchill and say, "Hey, I need to refinance this thing." Yeah, but it's going to make the payment go up and right now I only have 10 years 10 and a half years left besides the balloon. I don't know if I should just start hitting the balloon payment. You know, every month we start because I can start paying on it it's interest-free the balloon payment.

There's no interest on it.

Should I start trying to hit that thing?

Or I mean I thought about refinancing the loan which I would love to because my ex-wife's name is on the loan.

>> And an even better reason. Yeah. Yeah, I know. She's She's not on the deed though. She's That's my new wife is all we've already she's signed the house over to me all that but the loan you know, is is the issue.

>> If I If I can understand this and I I you got me when you hit when you mentioned balloon my mind zoomed out. So there might be more details that you want to fill me in on later but from what I hear is an old house that I had with an ex-wife that I'm living in now with my new wife that has a balloon payment that's going to be due a $50,000 and even though it has a fine interest rate of 2.5 or 2 per I don't remember what you said 2% now.

>> 2% 2% yeah.

For me there's this is not good. In my mind I go if I'm your new wife I don't want to live in your ex-wife's house and I certainly don't want to live in it with a balloon payment at the end that we're going to be due for in the next however long. That's where my brain sits.

Why would you not and and it's got your ex-wife's name on it? So why would you not either sell this house?

I would sell it now that I see that your ex-wife is even on it because it's not fair for her to be attached to that either. Do you want to know why? Why? Because my my new wife loves the house.

Oh boy. She doesn't But your ex-wife is on it. I know and >> And that's not fair to her that I know it ain't. I agree with you 100%.

>> got it it doesn't At that point it doesn't matter.

At that point it doesn't matter if you love the house. There's plenty of houses out there she can love but your financial life is going to be tied to your ex-wife for life if you keep this home for life. That's not fair to her.

No no no no once the house is paid if we pay it off in 10 years she'll be gone.

>> 10 years is a long time my guy. That's a long time to be tied in.

Yeah, but if we if we do if we leave now

and try to buy another house our payment our payment's only $1,400 a month.

>> I know that. I understand that.

>> So if I if I do this our payment's going to go over double if not higher and then I'm going to have Yeah, I'm going to have to get a second job in order to pay for it. >> No, that's not true. So here's here's what's true. I'm going to I'm going to lay out what's true and then we'll talk about it. We could talk it The truth is you're divorced from her. That's true.

Oh yeah, that's a truth. >> That's a truth and you're remarried.

That's true. Other thing that's true is your finances should not be connected to

your ex-wife for any longer than necessary. Fair enough? Yep. What's also

true is there is a $50,000 balloon payment here.

Yep. Okay, these are all truths what we'll call in in in the con category.

The only pro is your wife likes the house and there's a 2% mortgage. That's really the only pro.

So there's part of this that you have to accept because of the divorce

and I'm not saying it's it's wrong or right. I'm just saying because of the divorce your housing situation is going

to change.

And I think you just have to accept that. You can't keep it as it was because a major thing has been upended

and so there's change there and to say, "Hey, well we can pay it off in 10 years." and to have that link to her for 10 years is unfair.

It's to everybody.

Do you see what I'm saying? Because if something happen if anything happens that changes in your life that causes you to not be able to afford this house that causes that balloon to be a issue it's going to affect her majorly. Well, it's also going to affect you, Mike.

Like you're talking about getting another job all these things and the only thing by the way I'm I'm just letting Jade roll here. This is fantastic. I but I agree with her by the way. I agree with her. So I'm going to take what Jade said and I'm going to put this back to you and go after hearing everything Jade said which by the way I heard you categorically go I agree. I agree. I agree.

If I'm hearing you and I'm hearing Jade and I am the only reason you're considering this is because your current wife likes this house.

Yep. And it's in our budget as far as being able to afford >> Well, but she already knocked that one down. >> live the way we want to live like Well, but no you can live in other places. No no no no she knocked that down. You can live in other places. The idea that this is the only place where you can live within affordability is a myth.

>> And it's not affordability. You have a $50,000 balloon.

>> Yeah, it's not affordable. And it requires you to get another job just to afford it. So you've created It's like after all that you're still stuck in this this thing and I guess what I'm trying to help you see as a friend, Mike is I think this is because you would rather be miserable than be uncomf- No no you didn't let me finish. You'd rather be miserable instead of be uncomfortable in telling your wife, "We're getting out of this. We're changing our life." You don't want to have to tell her that.

Tell me if I'm wrong. >> No, honestly we No, you're wrong because

we Here's what our our plan what we wanted.

We wanted to sell this house and me us to retire up by Cambria up in northern

county. You know where Cambria is? >> Sure. I don't know if you Up up north.

So we Yeah, up north. So we cuz we love

it up there. That's She loves it but you know, her daughter's here with the grandbaby. Her son lives here. So those

things are in factor. My two kids are out of state. I got four grandchildren with them. >> So did your wife did your wife change her mind completely on the move up north?

No, we The reason why we decided maybe

not is because of family and stuff. You know, like being close How far How far I

I totally get that. Never going to dismiss that but how far away are we talking about?

Uh it's probably 5 and 1/2 6-hour drive.

And that still has no bearing on whether or not cuz it's like okay >> I'm trying to make get it in the mix to go that's why you should should sell this house cuz they already had another plan. I mean but even if you've decided that's no longer the plan if it is or it isn't. I know. I'm trying to make this hard decision easier.

I'm with Jade on this. >> know what? She's the one that got me in on the Dave Ramsey thing because I was the opposite. >> Okay.

>> When it came to bills I wanted to if we didn't have it let's go get it. I want to enjoy life but when I met this woman here she turned me around.

>> in my mind Tell her you called us today and we said no to the balloon payment. I just think you're you're on a you're on a tightrope without a net. Uh you you're just walking this thing and you're hoping you get to the other side. It's a 10-year journey with a $50,000 barricade

in the middle. >> extra job for you. >> And an ex-wife yapping yapping about

having this debt around her neck. I don't I don't I don't hear hear her from her ever. I don't Yeah, no I mean I haven't for years. We've been married for 10 years going on 10 years now. You can do what you want to do, Mike. >> have spoken and you you said your [laughter] wife introduced you to us and now you called us.

You do what you want to do, brother but enjoy that second job, man. Enjoy that and that stress.

Well, I hate to do that to him but that's the facts. That's how we see it.

Hey folks, remember this there's ultimately only one way to financial peace [music] and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 270. You Don’t Have To Live One Emergency Away From Broke | September 5, 2025


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:19 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music] Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. If you want to get involved in the conversation about your life and your money, it's easy to do that. The number is88255225

and we'll get you on the line. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney chopping it up with you for the next couple hours. Let's go to the phone lines where we have Lee who's in Charlotte, North Carolina. Lee, what's going on? How can we help?

>> Hi, I'm so excited. This is a happy day so I can get to talk to you guys. So, recently, um, my husband left, uh, four

weeks ago today. And the reason why he left is because I had found out that he took there was a back in 2021, he never

paid a debt. And I went to go get renovations on my house and found out that there was a lean against my home

and it was in his name. So this was 2021. So since then, in December, I paid

that lean off with a heliloc loan

because I didn't want it to go against my house. He was on the deed. Okay.

>> Since then, I have found out majorly.

Sorry. >> It's okay.

>> Stuff that he's done. So, he got caught

and I guess he may be getting garnished wages.

>> Because he left after I gave him a few choice words and I found out that he had changed his address and that the state was coming after him from our 2024 IRS

that we filed together. That was the only year. >> Okay. and he they took his half and then he took mine. So I am drowning here

>> because he left he has not he held his responsibility any of the debt. So in

North Carolina they can take your 401k they can take your half of your house.

>> Okay. So >> but I have worked >> Oh go ahead. Go ahead hun. Go ahead.

>> So I for eight years I have worked my

tail off for my 401k where I put it in a

Roth. So, I'm gaining like $3,000

a month. I'm 59 years old.

>> Okay. So, let let me back up. Let me back up here. Okay.

>> Help me help me understand your the

situation in your marriage. Are y'all are y'all still married?

>> Yes, but he left and I will not. It's It's done. It's a done deal. >> Okay. So, have you have you met with an attorney yet? >> Yes. Yes. >> Okay. So he y'all have separate houses

or he put your house up as collateral on

some loans. Has he just been running around running up debts and doing all kind of wild stuff? Okay.

>> Well, so what happened was um when we got married, which we should have been a red flag, I had good credit, so I put the house mortgage. He's on the deed.

>> So the mortgage in your name?

>> Mhm. >> Yes. Yes. So when they come after him

>> Mhm. >> they put a lean on my house, which I couldn't stand that. So, I took care of that. >> Okay. You took the heliloc. How much was it, >> Lee? >> Um, it would have started out at 21,000, but he disregarded it. It was 27,000.

>> So, the helock was 27,000.

>> And I had to pay two more loans off that I did when he wasn't working.

>> And what were those?

>> Those were um it was total 48,000.

>> So, 48,000 of personal loans.

>> Two. Um, it was the Yes, the heliloc total 48. 27 was his lane and then the

other two were loans that I took out because he's not been stable working.

>> Okay. So, here here's what we need to do. I want you to hear what Jade is doing. Okay. You have several things going on at once. One, you're really upset with yourself.

>> Yes. >> The second thing is you've been completely taken advantage of by a

dishonest not good man.

>> And number three, you have a big financial mess. And so what we don't want to do is let your the shame you feel right now and the anger you feel right now towards the people involved

cloud the judgment of we have a math problem that we got to solve ASAP and that's what Jade's walking through with you. Okay. >> Okay. All right. Thank you.

>> So I just want to clarify the numbers.

Is it 75,000 total which would be 70

which would be 27 of a heliloc and 48 of personal loans or was the 27 part of the 48? part of the 48.

>> Okay. So, it's 48,000 total.

>> Okay. So, and that's the only debt to

speak of or is there other things? Are there cars? Are there other things that you guys are involved in together and separately moneywise? >> Um, to get Yes, there is. Um, tell me about those. Since he since he left, I had to use my credit card >> to get my attorney fee >> for 4,700 and then I had to use some of

it to live on um because he just went

drastically. I have $14,000 on a car

loan that I have >> before you go to the car. You told me that you had 47 from attorney's fees and then you said you were also living on it. So tell me the total amount of credit card debt.

>> Um right now it's 5400.

>> 5,400. Okay, great. And then there's

14,000 of car debt.

>> Yep. Anything else?

>> And then the heliloc and then a home which is 137,000.

>> Okay. 137 is what you owe on the mortgage. Okay. Yeah. >> So, here's the thing. You've already started and and John will probably talk to you a little bit more about this. You've already started the process of getting a lawyer. You're getting a divorce. Okay. That's happening. How long were you married?

>> Um, we were married 9 years total, 11

years together. >> Okay. Nine years. So, there's a good chance that a lot of this is going to be split up and you're not going to be left holding the bag on this. Okay. So I in

many ways you kind of have to push pause on whatever your steps forward are because we don't know what the courts is going to say about this. Now what you can do today is yeah now is the time to separate your finances. You have your own account. You guys are no longer sharing anything.

The good news is his name is not on the on the mortgage. So probably you'll end up figuring out some situation where you keep the house and maybe you have to cash out his amount if that even works out that way. But there's a lot up in the air because of this money and how it's going to be divided.

Are you working?

>> Yes. Yes, I do have a good job.

>> Okay. What do you earn?

>> Um 80,000.

>> Excellent. And what do you do for work?

>> I'm a property manager.

>> Okay, great. So you've got 80,000. When you take home your paycheck, how much is it every month?

>> Um, now that I backed off on my 401k, um, it's 19 20 about 2000. It'll be

about 2100 next check.

>> Every two weeks. So, you're $4,200 a month. Great. And are you using an every dollar budget? Cuz that's going to give you a lot of peace right now.

>> No, I'm not. >> Okay. Before you hang up the line, we're going to get you with a budget because what you need to know today is that Lee

can take care of herself each and every month. We're putting the debt on the shelf right now because nobody knows what will be with that until we come out of court. But on 4,200, can you pay uh

your mortgage? What how much is your mortgage every month? >> Oh, thank goodness. The mortgage is um only,79 in the equity line. But see, I have one question. The 27,000 he acrewed that the month before we got

married, but I'm paying for it. He's not giving me anything. >> I understand, Lee, but we don't John and I don't get to decide how that money, how that debt is split up. Only >> pay the minimum and keep it from getting any higher. Pay the minimum balance.

>> Okay. >> And then when you go to court, your attorney should use that in his quiver or her quiver to help protect you.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> Yeah. It just it's Yeah, I get it. And thank you so much. That helps me a lot.

>> There's so much anger and frustration and shame and rage all wrapped up here.

And you got to deal with a math problem ahead of you. >> Uh-huh. And so for you, yeah, knowing that you have the piece of being able to pay your mortgage. You can cover your four walls, your food, your utilities, your transportation. You have the money to do that. And like John said, pay minimums on everything else. Do not try to pay these debts off. Wait until your court battle so that this can be settled in court. >> And don't take out any more debt.

[Music]

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man. >> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

Dean is in Reno, Nevada. What's going on, Dean? How can we help today?

Hi guys. Thank you for having me.

>> Yeah, you bet.

>> What's up? >> I was uh I was calling because I had a question. I have two properties. Um I'm

29 years old. I have two properties in

uh Bosezeman, Montana, and I have one of

the homes has about 260,000 in equity. I

am 125,000 in debt and I'm trying to

decide what the best route is here. Whether I sell and cash out, become debtree

and invest the rest of that money or if

I hold that house for more long-term gains because that was the original plan.

>> Okay. Um, let me run the numbers out in

a way that I can see them on paper. So, the first property, tell me what you owe on it and tell me what it's worth and what you think you'll pull from the sale on property number one.

>> So, property one, uh, I owe 188,000

and it's worth about 4, it's worth between 450 to about 470.

>> Mhm. >> Um, so we can just say 450 on that. That would be 260,000.

>> Okay. That's the one. Okay. That's the first one you spoke about. Okay. And then tell me about property number two.

What do you owe on it?

>> Property number two is a joint property

with my girlfriend. That one is

uh we paid Oh, I'm sorry. We owe

430,000.

>> Mhm. >> And it's worth about

maybe five five if we're lucky. We just put it on the market, but it didn't it didn't go for what we were asking and we weren't we were going to lose our butts on it. So, we decided to pull out of that and just keep it rented.

>> Okay. So, you're renting that one now.

Is it losing money? Is it breaking even?

Tell me about the rental situation.

>> So, we bought that at the peak of the market. That one is breaking even. The

mortgage on it is $3,9 a month. We're charging 3,000 for rent.

>> Got it. The other property is >> Hold on. You're actually losing money on that then.

>> Correct. Yes. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Cuz that doesn't there's no there's no upkeep. There's no emergency fund.

There's no roof needs to be replaced.

You're just barely you're treading water on that one.

>> Yes, sir. Okay. Yes, sir.

>> So, now that we kind of see the the picture here, one's got 260 of equity, one's got I don't know, maybe after fees

50 of equity. Is that fair enough?

I would say less than that. Probably around 20 to 30.

>> Okay. 20 to 30. So, >> I mean, we're in at 30,000 with the remodel. >> So, in in total, you've got about 2,000.

You're sitting on about 280 of equity.

>> Uh yeah, that's fair.

>> Okay. Uh now, in the beginning, you said I'm 125,000 in debt. Tell me about that.

>> So, on the first house, well, I I

consumer debt because clearly you're in more debt than that. So, were you talking about consumer debt?

>> Yeah. So, the first house I pulled a heliloc on it and that was 50 for 55,000

and I still owe 54,000 on it. Um,

>> and when you when you quoted me the numbers, was that including the 55k when you told me you owe 188 on it?

>> No. No. I I I was keeping that separate

consumer. So, separate 55,000 in a heliloc. What else?

>> And then 20,000. I did a uh the debt

arbitrator. So, there's 20,000 in a debt arbitrator loan. >> Okay. >> Um and then I have So, my dad, he gifted me

50,000 for the first house purchase, but

that's been a huge problem. And I've listened to the show a lot, so I feel very guilty. So you got to give dad back 50,000 when I did >> I mean it was never discussed under that but it's created problem

getting it back. >> Okay. So that's that's the that's the 125. Okay. So this is pretty simple I

think. Um I think you need to sell both of these properties. Where are you living? Where do you live?

>> Uh currently it's messy. I my girlfriend

and I we have a son together and we are

working hard to try to figure things out right now. >> I know. But where do you live? >> So I'm back I I'm back currently with my father. >> Okay. >> So you're living with dad. Are you paying are you paying any rent?

Basically I'm trying to find out if you have living expenses.

>> Yeah. So my living I do pay rent. My living expenses total about 3500 a

month. >> Okay. And what's your income? >> Um >> 3500 a month.

Yeah, because of >> you feel like that's high >> and >> Oh, child support and all that. Okay.

>> All right. You're right. You're right. >> What's your income for this 3,500 a month expenses? >> It's it's roughly 8,400

or 84,000 a year, but I'm starting a new job September 22nd. That'll push me to

100 to 120,000. Great.

>> Depending on overtime.

>> So, here's here's the problem. That's not the problem. The problem is not your money, okay? Because it's really easy for you to go ahead and sell these properties, kick out this HELOC, pay back your dad, get out this loan arbitrator. Uh you make plenty of money to support your $3,500 of expenses every month. The problem here is choices. Um

and John can talk to you about that because you've you're just creating a life of chaos. You're going out and getting properties you can't afford and then you're buying them with your girlfriend and then you're having a baby with somebody that you're not fully in a committed rel like you're doing things that's just creating drama and that's

really where the problem is. >> Yeah. And you know that right?

>> Absolutely. And I I don't know if this is necessary to mention but I I just got sober. >> I'm proud of >> and that was a very big struggle.

>> How how far along are you?

I'm coming up to two months.

>> You're about to get 60-day chip.

>> I Well, I'm not an AA. I'm just doing this by myself. >> All right. Today, you go to a first meeting. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Yes. All right. Good. How old are you, brother?

>> I'm uh 29. >> 29. All right. Here's the deal, dude.

you're about to cross a threshold today and if you go to your first meeting today and you call a a a realer and you can go to ramseyolutions.com and find a trusted realer in your area and say, "I'm going to put both these properties up today and you make a financial plan within 90

days to get out of your dad's house and get your own place. Even if it's a one-bedroom apartment, you're going to cross that threshold at 30 sober. You

don't owe anybody any money. You make six figures and you can begin to wrap your head around becoming the dad that you didn't have and the dad that you

want to be and you and your girlfriend can work on your relationship and if if it's worth investing in. You go get a marriage counselor and see if we're going to make this a run of this thing or not or whatever. But I want you to hear you're underwater and you can you it feels like you can't see and you got all this debt here and you're trying to do this. You owe this guy money.

totally free from substances, from the demons, from the identity crisis, and

from the money. Do you see how close you are to the edge?

>> Yes, sir. >> You're right there, man. You are right there. You've got all the tools and you're making six figures, which tells me um if you've been able to do that with all the chaos in your life.

>> Yep. Yep. Bro, when you get these chains off you, you're going to you're going to be at $250,000 in the next 24 months.

>> Unstoppable.

>> You're right there. But I will tell you this. It's my promise to you. You cannot white knuckle this.

>> Yeah, it's been tough. >> I know. You got to walk through the doors of a meeting and sit down and say,

"Hey, my name is my name is my name is

Dean and I'm struggling."

That's today. Okay.

>> Okay. >> And I promise there'll be a meeting in your area.

Game on, brother. Day one. It's day 30 or day 60, but we're going to give you day one today. I'm proud of you, man.

Proud of you. And Jade, I love what you said. It's not the money.

>> It's not the money. He's making money.

He's a smart guy. He can clear this debt literally the moment these houses sell.

But he's so smart that he fell for

>> you're stupid if you don't have rental properties and this false truth called passive income and you're stupid if you don't have this and you're stupid if you don't have that. >> And then you wake up and you're almost 30 and you're struggling with substance and you live with your dad >> and it's about doing the next right wise thing.

[Music]

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[Music]

Listen, when you're tackling debt or building wealth, people can often forget about one important step to reaching their goals. Insurance. Duh. Having the

right coverage as opposed to too little or too much can really impact how long it takes to accomplish those goals.

Skimping out on insurance might seem like saving money, but trust me, when life happens, it's easy to fall back into debt without a safety net. The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet when disaster strikes. And in some cases, it can even save you money uh if you're paying too much for insurance or if you got bogus insurance like like the cell phone insurance or like warranty insurance, that sort of deal. So, how do you know if you have the right coverage?

Take the coverage checkup. It's a free online resource that creates a personalized insurance action plan that's unique to you and your situation.

It makes an over It makes an overly confusing topic easy to understand and gives you very clear next steps. So, go to ramseyolutions.com/checkup to take the coverage checkup or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. I love talking about this, John. I I've told you before when Sam and I used to rattle through life with no insurance, just just living on the edge like aerosmith with with nothing. >> You're crazy. >> And then my husband broke his finger and I was like, "Listen, head on over there to CVS.

>> We're doing this. >> Get you some tape, bro." Like, that's all we have. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You need insurance. It's important. All right. Amy is in Wisconsin. Amy, how can we help today?

>> Um, so I'm wondering how how can I

nicely tell my fiance that his parents' financial

shortcomings aren't his job to solve.

>> Oo,

>> I'm looking at John. >> Yeah. I I mean my first answer would be

just to read back what I mean to say back what you just said to sit down and say, "Hey honey, your your parents' financial challenges aren't yours to solve." I'm assuming that you've tried that in 1700 other iterations of that.

And so I think the deeper question is less about you asking him.

>> It's you asking yourself, do I want to here at the doorstep? Do I want to be married to somebody who will put his parents' financial shortcomings ahead of

the family that we are about to start co-creating together? That's the real question here.

>> All right. I I just I mean I understand

some of it some of it but like it's at

some point we were paying their mortgage and you know >> tell us how the conversation goes when you say what John said which is honey

dear I I I can't live like this your

parents their struggles they're not your fault we can't solve them we've got to solve our own for our own financial peace what does that conversation look like and what does he do.

>> It's usually I mean it never really ends in a fight or anything like that, but it's it's usually like they're still my parents. I don't want to see them fail.

And I mean, I get that. I do. But like

at what point is it at what point do you let them learn for them theirelves?

>> Yeah. Listen, you're right. You are correct. So, you don't have to convince us that there's a point. He's beyond the point. Um, my question is, is he an only

child? Is there some sort of um hardship

that's caused them to have financial struggles? Or is it truly just misbehavior with money? And he's the responsible sibling and feels like he's the hero.

>> He's the oldest of four. And no, there

isn't really anything that's causing them to lose money. It's like they have

>> a bunch of pets and they can't pay their light bills, so they go out and get a dog, you know? >> Yeah. >> Like >> Yeah. >> But but you got to you have you have to metabolize that the bigger issue here is not your parent, not your future in-laws

financial situation. It's that you sat down with your fiance and say said, "Hey, this is a big deal to me and your choices are impacting our life together." And he said, "Nah, I don't care. I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing." That to me is the bigger issue here. It's >> a big deal.

>> And by the way, this will show up again when you'll get married. This will show up again when you'll buy a house. This will show up again when you'll start having kids. this kind of indifference to you saying, "Hey, this is really important to me." And him going, "Yeah, I don't care." That's going to keep showing up and you have to ask yourself, "Am I going to sign up for this for the rest of my life?" >> That listen, what John is saying is so true, Amy, I'll tell you, um, a piece of advice that my mom gave me when I got married.

She said, "The behavior you allow now is the behavior you'll allow for the rest of your marriage." And so it was basically saying if I let this slide now to John's point, I'm going to keep seeing this type of behavior play out play out because I've allowed it and I said this is okay and people treat you the way you allow them to treat you. So if you say it's okay, then it is okay.

hot take. I would not marry this person

until we have figured out how to solve this and I have seen how he enters into and solves conflict. >> Absolutely. And by the way, neither Jade nor I are against supporting parents at all, but I want to do it in the right order. I want to put our oxygen mask on first and make sure, as for me and my house, we've got our four walls taken care of. We are able to financially

support somebody else. And my guess is that y'all are struggling too financially. Do y'all live together?

>> We do. We actually we got engaged and then recently after found out that we were pregnant. >> Okay. So, um, y'all are have your own

financial challenges ahead of you and you're concerned that he's putting money in their account and they're being irresponsible. It's not even a matter of them like struggling with poverty or health issues. They're just making bad choices, right?

Jade is so right. You have to have the deeper, harder conversation because right now your fiance's parents

financial situation, that's just the proxy war. That's not the real issue.

>> The real issue is you said, "Hey, this matters to me." And he said, "Yeah, I don't care." >> Or they're more important than you.

>> And in many ways, he's now also continuing that same chain of bad financial behavior and making bad financial choices, right? >> Because choosing to pay for something that's neither your responsibility or

priority instead of what actually is.

Yeah. That that's how you get in the situation that the in-laws are in. So, he's starting to repeat that behavior, which is a red flag.

All right. All right. So, >> let me say this. You're not crazy.

>> Okay. You're not crazy.

>> And by the way, this isn't the only thing. He disregards what you want or feel, is it?

>> No. >> No.

These kind of things don't happen in a vacuum. People don't work together and they're not aligned on vision and goals and values and priorities. And then there's one weird thing over here. That's just not how people operate. And so you have to be honest with yourself.

And by the way, you're in his life forever because y'all created a human together, right? So there's going to be some peacemaking here.

>> But it's not too late to not bind this

thing together legally and get into a big a bigger mess, if you will. Y'all are already connected forever. But I want you to be honest about the state of your relationship and how he dedicates

his life to service to you and vice versa or how he is just dragging you along through whatever he gets good and ready to do in the world.

>> All right. So, so I guess um

do I stop asking nicely at this point?

Do I just say, "Hey, dude, get your head out of your butt." my >> it it I think it's it's when you enter into those conversations with you with the word you why you when you start those conversations with the word you first you're you're starting a fight you're declaring war and he's going to defend himself what's more important here is for you to come up with your or what statement I am going to fill in the blank I will

not be married to somebody who puts other people's priorities ahead of ours

will not marry somebody who doesn't care

what I want or what I feel or what I want to co-create. I will not engage in.

And so it's not about you need to get your head out of your butt. It is gently and firmly and in full control. I will

not fill in the blank or I'm going to

fill in the blank. That's the declaration. And then he gets to decide does he want to be a part of this thing or not.

Tough stuff, John. Tough stuff. We're

rooting for you, Amy.

[Music]

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Remember, may not be available in all states. All right, today's question comes from Veronica, Miss Veronica Vaughn in California. She writes, "My husband and I are less than a year away from being debt-free. We are self-employed and have been married for 28 years. My husband is a hustler who works seven days a week. I'm worried that when there's no more debt, he won't be as motivated." As he's leaving the house in the morning, he'll often ask me, "How much do I need to make today?

How do we continue the hustle when we get to the investing saving part and we quote unquote don't need the money?

>> I love this question. I like this question a lot. Um, so I see what you're

saying, Veronica, about you're wondering if he's going to lose like take his foot off the gas or like lose motivation, but

I think it's actually the opposite. Um,

so let me kind of explain that. I think John that when you are in debt, debt

rules all. It is the driver of everything. >> Working all day for that guy's money.

>> Yeah. I mean, but it's it it you're right. It is a driver. I've got to make money so that and the so that is so that I can pay off debt. So that I can keep making more payments. Right. So your mind in many ways is very limited to that thing when the debt is gone. In

many ways, it's like, you know, when you've been wearing a pair of tight jeans all day or like a tight you finally or you get home, you take your wig off, you're like, "Oh, I can breathe. Like, I can finally just be comfortable and I can look and see other opportunities and other things. It's not just, you know, tunnel vision goggles on my debt." And so, there's part of this that yeah, when you're out of debt, things will change, priorities will change.

You start to look at other things that might have been that might be important to you that you never could have even thought about before. So, I do think you might see a shift, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing. It really is. Um, you know, Dave Ramsey,

John says all the time, uh, when he's talking to small businesses, he's like, "Yeah, move at the speed of cash." Because when you have debt, it changes the decisions that you make. It changes the spirit in which you do things because there is a lot tied to debt.

Now, you've created this pressure in your life, right, to pay the debt. And it's the same thing in personal life.

When that pressure to pay that debt is gone, yeah, you can look up and go, you know what? We see it all the time on the show. I want to be a stay-at-home mom.

You know, or you look up and go, you know what? We thought that what we really wanted was to buy a bunch of new cars right after the debt was gone. But really what we want is to just enjoy life. And suddenly maybe you don't want to take a vacation. Maybe you just want to sit at home and enjoy your home, right? There's so many things that shift and change because that barrier that was on your heart and mind is just gone. So I would say let's see what happens.

Let's not make it a problem or let's talk about it now. >> Yeah, we need to talk about it now. That's good. But you won't know. >> You won't know. But also I

>> your husband needs to stop working seven days a week and hustling when you don't own have any debt. Veronica saying if you're already hating on him in the future like he's not going to want to work seven days a week. No, he shouldn't. Y'all are running from your live for for your lives right now.

>> And so what what is it always? Um we're

going to shift to being intentional with this, right? And but

I think there's a man there's such a

problem in modern it's probably all marriages but modern marriages which is

I need to have a conversation. I imagine

a future where this thing happens and then you're going to do a thing and I start getting mad at you about the thing or frustrated with you about the thing that hasn't even happened yet that I don't even have proof is going to happen. So just >> have the conversation now >> and not with >> are you going to be dismotivated? We don't owe any money. Not that way, but hey, we're getting really close to being out of debt.

What does our life want to look like then? Like you were talking about like what do we want this thing to look like? >> And he probably is going to say, >> I'm tired of working 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I want to exhale.

that money on me and us." And y'all need to have that hard conversation.

>> Yeah, I agree. >> This sounds like a >> it's an imagination, >> but it's it's a it's a it's an imaginary

character assassination. You know what I mean? >> It's very close to contempt. It's very close to like I'm up here and I work really hard and I'm afraid he is just going to stop.

>> It's almost like have you ever had a dream about your spouse doing something?

>> Oh. And you wake up >> and you wake up mad and you're kind of like playing it out and they're like >> I walked in the kitchen and multiple times to get a cup of coffee and I can feel my wife's mad. I'm like, "What happened?" And she's like, "You know what you did in that dream." I'm like, "What?" >> And she'll say, "I know it's irrational, but I'm still mad." Yeah.

even see if it's real or not. So, yeah, John, I agree. Have the conversation and yeah, there's going to be a lot of unknowns. That's okay. But at least say what you're thinking, which is, you know, how do you think you're going to feel when we're out of debt? You don't have to say it in an accusatory way.

>> Or what do you want to what what do we think our work life is going to look like? What do we think this small business is going to look like? This self-employed business. What are we what are we like whatever? And if you've been hanging on to something for almost three decades of marriage, because I'm also seeing how many wives would love for

their husband to turn around as they're leaving the house and say, "How much money you want me to make today?" >> Okay. >> And she goes, "This much." He's like, "I'm on it. Got it." Right. >> Yeah.

>> It might be that he thinks he's loving you every morning, Veronica. And if you tell him, "Hey, when you ask that question, it kind of freaks me out. It makes me think you're trying to do the bare minimum." And he might say, "No, no, no. I'm trying to >> I'm trying to show you that I'm all in for it." Like, it's how might he might the only way that he can earn her like respect and love respect is yeah >> because he's working seven days a week and I don't seem to be getting it.

Yeah. Yeah. >> But yes, I found to your point, I found

myself I worked really hard to get out of debt and I thought peace would be

taking my foot off the gas and it was actually an opposite once I realized, oh, now I can earn money >> forward, not just paying some other guy that I already took it from. I wanted to work so much more because I realized, oh, I I can do it and it's going to be mine. It's going to be ours. And so that changed my whole >> the whole trajectory there.

>> Oh, good stuff. All right. Thanks for the question. Really, really good.

Let's go to the phone lines. We got Brett who's in Maine. Hey, Brett.

How can we help today?

>> Hi. Good afternoon. Hope both are doing good. Um, my question for you is so I have been dating this girl for a little bit now and we both kind of came into this with the idea like we are dating

for intentions to marry. >> Yeah. >> And I'm very much a planner. And so I'm kind of curious what your thoughts are for um budgeting for an engagement ring

and where the best source of cuz I I

have pulled the money in different spots like where the best source whether it's drawing from investment accounts or if

it's better just to start saving up and so you don't have to hamper or touch the investments at all kind of what the best route to go for that. >> Yeah, excellent question. I listen congrats on the successful relationship.

I 100% would not pull the money out of any investment accounts. Like those are plugged in for a reason. They're there to build wealth for the future. So don't rob yourself by draining those accounts.

Plus, you don't want to get hit with fees and taxes, right? It sounds like this is something that you can cash flow over time and just save up for uh what

you're looking for. You know, we would say 30 days, you know, 30 days of work is probably a good place to start. Um, some people might argue that and say it needs to be a little more or some people might say it needs to be a little less.

At this point, it really is about what you I mean, obviously you want to get a ring that you think she's gonna like and you know that sort of thing. But it's pretty simple. Save up 30 days worth.

What do you say, John?

>> What >> I say? Don't call strangers on a podcast and ask them this question. Like, save

up what you think the ring is is is a good amount. I mean, we've I've taken calls on the show where it's like, "Hey, I'm spending $25,000." And my personal I was like, "You're an idiot." And Dave was like, "No, he's not." And so, >> everybody's different on this deal. And so, it's what you can afford, you pay cash for. >> What is it like it's two months salary?

No, it's not. But it might be one month, it might be four months salary. It just depends. It depends. And some of you guys can go put a quarter in one of those little turny things in front of the pizza parlor. And >> please don't do that.

Whatever. You do you, boo. Just pay cash.

>> That's it. Oh, that does it for this hour of the show. Keep on listening. We got more coming at you.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Music]

Normal is broke. Con common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Deloney, taking calls about your life, your money for the next couple hours.88255225 is the number that gets you on the line.

Let's go to the phone lines. We got Darby in Nebraska. What's up, Darby?

>> Hey, thank you guys for taking my call.

>> No problem. How can we help?

>> So, I have a unique situation.

>> Let it rip. >> Um, so

I was a stay-at-home mom. I'm sorry.

>> No, you're good.

Um, I've been a stay-at-home mom for the last seven years. Um, we found some

issues with the current home that we're renting. There's nowhere else to rent in

our area, even towns 20, 30 miles away.

So, we saved up money. We are in the middle of building a house.

And I I went and got a job about four

months ago.

to just give us some extra cushion. We have no debt. Um but I have lost several

child care options due to my son's

um unique medical condition, I guess you would call it.

And um we don't know what to do.

>> What what's his medical condition?

What's his challenge?

Um, so we moved into this house when he was one. He just he just turned five. Um,

last December. He he was like so

non-verbal. I was like, "Is he autistic?" Um, they did a random blood test and found out he has extremely high

lead levels.

>> And it's in the dirt around the home that we live in. And he's a boy. He eats

dirt. >> Didn't think anything of it.

>> So, yeah, his lead levels were through the roof. I did a detox with him. He has

finally started talking, but he's only been talking for the last oh, 6 months

or so. >> Mhm. >> So, he's he's pretty he's pretty at this time he's pretty delayed, right?

>> Yes. Okay. Yeah. Like physically, he's he's fine. >> Sure. Have you have you gotten neurological testing done?

>> No, we've done >> um >> or have you gotten him psych valves >> or developmental evals?

>> No, they think that he's good because

like he knows he can count all the way to 20. Um he knows all his ABCs. He

recognizes numbers and letters. Um it's just verbal that he is behind.

>> Is he in a speech path program?

Yes. >> Okay. Very good. And so what is it about his speech challenges that make child

care impossible?

>> So because he he's very independent because he no one's been able to understand him for the longest time.

>> So he will ask and if he's not being

understood, he just goes and does it.

And >> um sometimes he's a little rebellious and he gets very >> frustrated um and mad when he's not being understood and he will repeat over and over a word >> and which is like I love his stubbornness because that's what's got us this far like him >> yeah constantly. Are you are you are you underelling it?

>> Okay, here's what I hear. I hear a mom

who is underwater with guilt

that somehow you did something wrong to this little boy and I want to free you from that. He didn't.

Okay.

You're a good mom.

Your husband's a good a good husband.

He's a good dad.

>> Yeah. He's a very hard worker.

>> I know. And you are, too. And this is a hard, messy situation because nobody likes to uncover, oh my gosh, the home we live in, our one safe place, actually is responsible for making our kids sick.

Nobody wants that. And here we are.

Okay.

My fear is you guys have boxed yourself into an eitheror situation and now you're building a house that you can't afford or that you can barely barely barely afford. And maybe you couldn't rent a house, but I would have suggested if you'd called us a few months ago, get a two-bedroom apartment. This is a very short-term situation right now, but there's other solutions. But here we are. You've you all building house. I'm I'm assuming you are under contract and everything. things going forward.

>> Yeah. Yeah, we've got started on it and

yeah, we have three kids.

>> Okay. >> He's our middle. >> Okay. Are you Are you able to make this payment? Are you all able to live comfortably without your salary?

>> We can. Yeah. So, with without my salary, it's our monthly payment will be

the like right at that 25%. Great. I

I just really want the extra cushion to

because we have livestock >> and our lives are very unpredictable and

if there is something else that my middle child needs

um like I had to go do a bunch of research on this because there was no research on kids with lead poisoning.

There is there is countless countless

reams of research on lead poisoning in children >> and if your physician doesn't know you got to move on from that physician. It is >> per I mean there's so much literature out there on it tons and it is a big deal. It's a very very big deal.

>> That's why they removed it from paint except in older all I don't want to derail us. It is out there a lot. Okay.

But also googling everything can make you it can trap you, right?

Yes. >> So, here's the bigger situation. You and your husband need to sit down and say, "Hey, we've created a life with a ton of variables in it and we have three kids

and we're building a home and we're moving." There's anxiety alarms ringing all throughout your house because y'all put too much on this plate in this particular season. And it may be for this season we're going to reduce the amount of livestock we have. Or we're going to move our cows to another field for two years and we're going to take that hit so that we have some margin to be with these three little kids, especially the one in the middle with special needs or and I'm just making something up, but anytime somebody calls me and says we have this problem or that problem and either or I want you to at least go through the exercise of putting three or four other variables on the table just to see.

Let's move from Nebraska. What would that look like? Ah, we can't do that. Okay, well, at least we want to put that on the table.

We are going to sell this house that we just put a thing in because I think we found a rental house. Well, we're not going to do that. So, I want you to I want you to at least go through that exercise. Do we have to have all these cows?

Do we have to? Do we have to? Do we have to?

Clear out that closet a little bit. And it's much easier to breathe in there.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And um is there any other question we can help you with? I feel like I just talked over you the whole time.

>> Well, yeah. We were just kind of looking at different like I was kind of trying to think of creative opportunities for me to make some income from home. I do a little bit of like custom leather work already. >> That's amazing.

That's There's never been a better time in history to sell custom leather work all over the planet if you can get it done and get up a nice esite. >> Yeah, I think that's great. I think anything that you're looking for, it sounds like right now you need money right away.

>> Or next door app or somewhere down the road.

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[Music]

If you enjoy the Ramsay Show, let somebody know about it. uh take the time to share an episode of the show or if you're watching on a platform like YouTube, take a moment to like, maybe make a comment. If you're watching on Instagram, maybe watching one of those clips that we put out, use the little paper airplane and send it some to somebody else. All of that is so so important when you like, subscribe, and share.

It helps us in the algorithm and more people get this life-changing content. We appreciate it. All right, let's go back to the phone lines where Brenda is waiting in California. Hey, Brenda, what's going on?

How can we help today? Hello.

>> Great. First of all, >> let me just say John, you're one of my favorite people on the radio right now and I'm haven't had the guts to actually call your show and I'm so glad that you're on because this question has a little bit of emotion attached to it.

>> The question in it the question in its most simplicity is I wanted to know if selling my business um property would be a smart move to pay off debt and give me a jump start towards um saving for um

retirement. Um, I've opened my business

when I was 20 years old. I've had it for um 35 years now. And over the last, um,

since 2019, I was diagnosed with a medical um, well, with a blood cancer, I'll just say there's no cure. However, I do feel fantastic right now. So, um, that's not really holding me back at the moment. Um, and then COVID, the shutdown with COVID, and then, um, in 2023, my

uh, salon was flooded in the California floods. And so, um, I was, this is like

my second goaround on trying to get on the, uh, baby steps. And so, I had to live off some credit cards pretty much from about 2019 to now. And, um,

>> wait, what, Brenda? Why?

>> How come? Well, the Well, I'll say with the flood when the flood happened when um our community was trying to save it, I I'm a onewoman show, so I was literally trying to um put 50 pound bags around a fan around my Oh, because 50 pound bags of span around my injured

myself. I herniated myself and because I have this type of blood cancer, when I went to have it operated on, they gave me too much blood thinner and um I was internally bleeding. So, I had a long recovery before I was able to just, you know, go and rent another chair and start working. >> I I I got that. Did you Did you file malpractice against these people who poisoned you?

>> No, I didn't.

>> Okay.

Here's what I'm trying to give you back.

I'm trying to give you back some agency.

A flood will take everything from you because everything's going okay and then a natural disaster, it literally falls from the heavens and it takes everything. Right. >> Yeah. and it feels powerless.

>> And then when your body gets cancer, >> the very instrument that you walk and

breathe and talk through and love through goes to war against you. And it's scary, right? >> Yeah. >> Feels like you lose agency. You don't even trust your own body anymore.

>> And then it's easy to make the next statement, which is I had to for the last six or seven years live off credit cards. No, I didn't live off credit cards for six or seven years.

I lived off credit cards for five months. >> Oh, for five months. Okay. I thought you were saying you've been doing it since 2019. Okay.

>> No. So, for five months during the flood, time because I was already on trajectory. So, during the flood, so you're off the credit cards are like >> Okay. Thank you.

>> No, no, no. I'm ask I'm asking you.

You're not using credit cards anymore.

>> No. I'm just trying to pay them down, but with 30% um you know, 29.9%

interest, it's been really hard. How much do you owe?

>> So, I owe um 24,000 in credit card debt

and I have a um I mostly cash flow to my

son's college and so I owe 145 um to a

parent plus and then 10 um at a super

low interest rate that I got during 10,000 during COVID um just to um survive during that you know disaster

also. >> Okay. So, couple of things right off the top or let me ask you one more question.

How much do you make a year?

>> Okay, so there there's a little trick on that. Normally um up to maybe right now

currently I'm I'm about at 55,000.

Normally I make close to 100,000.

However, over the last two years being in that I was been in business for as long as I have. My clients are either um

starting to retire and moving where their kids are and moved out of the area or to their passing. And so as I try to rebuild, I'm not able to rebuild the clientele as fast as they're dropping off >> when they go and move to other areas. So that's where I'm at right now. >> So here here's here's a couple of this is me sitting with you at the table.

Okay? Not accusational. This is me sitting with you. Okay? >> Sure. >> We're going to choose reality here.

>> Yeah. >> The reality is number one, you cannot afford to be paying for your son's college right now. You don't have that much money. >> No, I'm done with that.

Okay. >> He's out of college now. >> Okay. And so we're going to exhale.

We're not going to pay for anything that we can't afford. The second thing is you have to ask yourself, do I want to continue to be in business doing hair? Because part of your business is going to require you to really hit the streets to get new clients >> and you've been doing it for a long time and it feels like you're going all the way back to starting to square one to go get new clients. And that's what it's going to take.

whatever. Um, but the your clients are

leaving. So, you have to ask yourself, do I want to be in this business and get back in like take the cycle all the way around and start this thing again and get new clients or am I done with this?

>> No, I'm not done with it. I have a good 15, 20 years of hair in me.

>> Okay, then that means you're just going to have to choose reality and say, "Okay, cool. My people are dropping off." Then I'm going to have to take one less client a day for the next two

months and I'm going to have to hammer the streets getting more people.

>> Yeah, this is what I'm have to do.

>> I have been doing that. I have been, you know, uh, posting I have more visits to my website now. Like I've been every day doing that with >> it. You're just gonna have to keep going. Keep going. There you go. Okay.

So, you're you're working on that problem. And so talk to me and Jade about the bigger issue which is do you want to sell your property?

So the business that I'm a onewoman show like I said in the business the tricker is um the fact that the I rented this

building from um my father for many years and then about maybe I want to say 10 years ago um he was in some financial

struggles and so he he basically devided

it over to me. I there's nothing owed on the property at all. >> What's it worth?

Um, as of 2023 when, um, I looked, it

was at 380.

>> 380,000. Okay. So, I'm going to simplify this a little bit. My screen says, "I'm living off credit cards. Is selling my business a good idea?" So, are we talking about just selling the property or are we talking about selling the property along with your salon book of business? What are we talking about specifically? What are you thinking about offloading to pay off this $48,000 of debt? if I understood correctly, >> the property, the the business property and building, not my actual clientele.

>> Okay. Okay. >> That would go with me. >> And so, where would you do hair if you were not doing it out of this building?

What would be the plan? >> Um, oh god, it would be a dream just to rent a chair and not have um So, what

I've always said is like I'm I'm one person, two households. I have, you know, two light bills, two gas bills, two two of everything. And people can barely live on with two incomes in one household these days. And so that's where I where where >> So you want to be out of the out of the the building business anyway.

>> How big is the building?

>> Um propertywise the land and everything's about 3,000 square feet.

Actual building properties maybe 1,500.

>> See, here's the thing. Here's my question. Um you don't you you owe it you own it outright. You don't owe anything on the property, right? It's just an asset.

>> And it sounds like

you might not be this person. So, if I'm putting this on you and you're like, "Hey, I'm just not that person." I feel like you have a great opportunity here because you've got the space that if somebody wanted to rent a chair from you, you could allow somebody in your space, I don't know, that does nails or somebody in your space that does eyebrows and or an anesthetician, all of those things, you have the the ability to house those items and therefore make more money. and with you. I don't know what your cancer uh you know the foresight is on that and what that looks like, but on down the line that might be really good for you.

I don't know what the doctors have said, but if you come in a season where you're not able to be on your feet as much or you're doing a treatment, there's still something there that's earning money for you. So, that feels like a move to me along with hitting the pavements like John said to try to build your book of business. But one way to build your business is to add pieces to it that don't require as much of your personal time and personal effort because you're going to hit a ceiling with that really quick. There's no way to scale out of that until you add people.

So, there's part of me that doesn't think this is the move. >> I don't think so at all. >> Yeah. I think if you can just keep building your income above 4,000 a month, you can pay off this 38 to $48,000 of debt.

And uh I think that's the move. That's what I would do. Hold on to the building.

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[Music] So, we have a fun segment here that we like to call asking for a friend. You know what this is, John? Whenever there's something that you kind of feel embarrassed about asking about. So, >> I get that all the time.

Hey, just asking for a friend. So, what if you're my friend's wife doesn't like him anymore? I get that all the time. >> Yeah.

Asking for a friend. What is a >> James is always like, "Hey, I'm asking for a friend. Like, do these like really short pink shorts like do they like make my thighs look or my friend wants to know if it makes his thighs look It does, James.

>> Okay.

Oh, boy. >> James is always asking for a friend.

>> I don't want to ever hear the word James and thighs in the same sentence.

>> The single grossest thing to happen in in in western fashion in the last 20 years is the increasing creep up

>> of shorts >> of the male shorts. Lint Biscuit did it right in the late 90s. Shorts should be midshin and that's it. Oh, you are so right. >> And they're getting higher and higher and higher. >> I am the one who is buying shorter shorts for my husband because >> Oh, gross. >> Show me the thigh. Okay, here we go.

>> Upper male thigh is the grossest thing.

>> No more. >> It's the worst. >> Please, let's talk about asking for a friend. >> Ask for a friend.

>> Asking for a friend. What is an asset?

Why is asset coming out shorts? Not.

>> Okay, >> man.

Okay. What is an asset in the way of

money? Okay. So, assets, let's just talk about that for a minute because a lot of times you hear, you know, from the the dude bros on on Tik Tok and on >> and they're short shorts. I need some assets, dude.

>> You need to be making money in your sleep, bro. Right. So, they're talking basically an asset is something that has a value on it, a monetary value. It's money that if you were to sell it, you would earn more money, right?

That's kind of the best way to think of it financially anyway. And so an example of that would be cash money, right? Like that's an asset. It's money that you have, right?

Uh when you cash flow everything, you don't need to rely on debt. So it is something that is of value to you. Uh something else, real estate, right? That's an asset.

It's something that well, if it's done, that's true. So, if you have equity in a piece of real estate, at that point, yeah, it is an asset.

>> Equity is if you pay money for something

and as you're owning it, it continues to go up in value. So, let's let's pretend you buy a piece of real estate for $400,000 and you bought it for $400,000

in 2024. And then if you look up next year and it's worth, I don't know, $460,000 >> and you've paid 40,000 down on the principal. Mhm. So now you've got $100,000. Yes. Did we do that in a way

that makes sense? I hope we did. So that's the idea there. So a lot of times on the show you'll hear someone call in and they'll say, "I got this real estate property." And we'll say, "What do you owe on it?" And they'll tell us. And then we'll say, "What do you think it's worth?" And then we'll do that subtraction and that will tell us what the equity is. Okay. Uh another form of

asset would be an investment. Yeah. That could be your 401k.

uh that could be uh a Roth IRA. Any

money that's sitting in any type of investment uh account that is gaining

interest is an investment and it is an asset. Getting out of debt and having a fully funded emergency fund uh is the quickest right way to build wealth. Um you would invest 15% of your income in a tax advantage retirement account. Like I said, that's an IRA, a 401k. And yeah, that is an asset. It's a way that you're building wealth. Next, tax advantaged

accounts. Another type of asset. These accounts let you keep more of your money by reducing taxes now and later. Okay, so again, examples of this, a traditional IRA, a Roth IRA, an HSA,

even a 529 savings account would be an example of that. Uh, and other types of assets. Yeah, your car is an asset. As long as you're not upside down, if you could sell your car and pocket the money, especially if it's a paidoff car, yeah, that's an asset. your wedding ring. If you sold your wedding ring today and you got, you know, a couple of thousand dollars in cash, that is an asset. Uh boats could be assets. Again,

it's if you sell it and you receive money and you're able to receive more than what you paid for it is really what we're looking for. So, you hear this a lot when we talk about net worth, John.

Uh a lot of times people don't understand the net worth equation. They think if you're a millionaire, it's cuz you made a million dollars. And that's really not it. is your assets, which is

what you own minus what you owe must be

x amount of dollars. In this case, a million dollars, right? So assets play into that equation. It's what you own that is of value. Did I cover it?

>> I think you got it. >> Did I get it? If you have questions, you can email James Childs. Hey, >> I love that you snuck asking for a friend into and asking for a friend with the equity question. That was good. >> I was just trying to get a little bit meta here. And by the way, um,

short shorts, the upper male thigh, not an asset. Big >> I think you need to bring back the Jeno shorts. >> Oh gosh. >> I'm working on it, man. >> It depends on who you ask about.

>> No, not the Jeno ones. I'm talking about like actual real car hearts that people cut off to make them shorts because that's all they had. The real Social D

punks back in the day. Those are the those are the guys. Hey, we saw New Fun Glory the other night at a local club here in town and they had the long the long dickies and it it made me happy.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> Shorts should go down the knee.

Gentlemen, >> go straight onto these phone lines where I got Carrie in Phoenix, Arizona. Tell us what you think about the shorts. Carrie, >> don't >> um It just like a man wearing pink. If

he owns it, if if he isn't like ashamed of it, he can pull it off. >> I love that. The clothes make the man.

The man don't make the clothes. Wait, the man makes the clothes. The clothes don't make the man. >> No, it's the other way around. Yeah, >> but short should go past the knee, right?

>> For a guy. Yeah, I feel like that's not

only modest but appropriate, but otherwise, you know, some guys take it too far and they get a little bit of um swimming trunk if you if you know what I mean. Not even swimming trunk. No, like like speedo, you know. We don't want that. >> They need to they need to

>> Okay, >> that's more George Campbell, but that's a different show. All right, so how can we help you? Let me help you.

>> Okay. So, did you guys hear about the storms that rolled through Phoenix a couple weeks ago? >> I did. Yes, ma'am.

>> Okay. We got hit pretty hard and I took

some damage to my home. Which is bringing up the question about whether or not we should do a particular remodel that we have been thinking and planning about for the last like six years.

>> Wow. So, we have like if we did the

remodel, we would have to obviously pay

for everything including the roof. Well, now my insurance is covering the roof, making the remodel a little bit cheaper out of pocket for me.

>> Okay. So, what will it cost you to do the remodel without the roof cost?

>> Okay, so it's not just the roof. Like my tra it picked up my trampoline and hit my back porch and tore my back porch off of my house. >> Yikes. In order to put the back porch back on, we have to move our septic tank in order to build the new back porch to code.

>> Will insurance cover the back porch because of the trampoline because of the storm? >> Yes. >> Okay. Nice.

>> Yeah. So, there's a lot of other stuff that it's going to cover. Now, here's the nitty-gritty numbers. Okay.

We owe about 450,000 on our home, but our home's value is 1.2 million.

locked into that 2.5 years ago. Um but

since then and after COVID, my husband got really sick with COVID and um we

were on top of every single one of our bills. We were paying everything down and when my husband got sick um and some of our bills kind of went delinquent, our credit took a hit.

>> So, um we have a total of 68,000 in

medical debt. We have uh approximately

90,000 in other loans between two cars

and a horse trailer. personal loans, solar panels.

>> Um we only have 10,000 in credit card.

>> Um we have between my husband and I, we have about 150,000 a year in income.

>> Um I'm an at home mom, but I make the land work for me. So we are on 2 and a half acres. I board horses. I sell chicken eggs. I have like 54 chickens.

>> All right. So write your question. We're up against the clock here. >> Well, the question is, should you do this renovation? Right.

>> Should I do the renovation? But should I do it with an HA or a heliloc?

>> Please don't. >> No, please don't. Listen, you're already in $178,000

of debt. Um, here's the thing. You have you have a great opportunity and I see the opportunity you're talking about it.

You're like, "Hey, the insurance will pull pay for the roof. It'll pay for the back porch and some other things on the list." That is going to cut down on your renovation costs. And if you were in a position to be able to cash flow the rest of the renovation, I'd be like, "Yes, I'm on your side. Go do this today." But the truth is, you're just not in that position, Carrie, you owe a

lot of money in debt, and the income is great, but you're not there today. So, no, I would not do this renovation. Have insurance. Please don't.

>> Have insurance fix the things that need to get fixed.

[Music]

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today. All right, let's go to Jay. He's in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's up, Jay?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call today.

>> What's up, brother?

>> Daily listener. love the show and appreciate all the advice um that you guys offer on the uh on the interwebs

and the and the radio.

>> Thank you, Jay. >> Got a question for you. Uh it's kind of a kind of short to the point. Um my wife and I,

we own our own home and we're uh we're

still working a little I'm working full-time. My wife works part-time and we have two grown sons and one of them recently went overseas to go to school

and we um along with him put together

some money for him to go over and start

uh going to school overseas and now he has um asked us to um help again and

just wanted to kind of get um some advice and you know see what you guys would would recommend. And >> what's he what's he studying overseas?

>> Um, that's a good question. We're not really sure. >> Yeah, I would not I would not put another penny in this. >> You don't know what he's studying?

>> None. >> Um, >> and I am as pro higher education as anybody in this building. I promise.

Maybe the top. I'm probably the most pro- higher education person I know. And I would not fund my kid to leave the country to go do a thing that I don't know what's going on or what they're doing, what they're studying, what the what the what they are expecting to gain. And by the way, if my kid goes to college, one of my rules is you have to study abroad.

I even believe in sending kids abroad. We've got to get like I'm a huge believer in that. But you don't even know what you're putting money into.

>> Jay, how much have you given him so far?

>> Um it's it's between let's say it's it's

around 10,000.

>> Okay. So, >> and okay, his um his mother probably knows a little

bit more. >> Um we think it's visual art, but we're not sure. I'm I'm not sure.

>> Is it is the uncertainty? Answer me this. Is the uncertainty on your part or is on is it on his part? Has he been kind of telling you and you guys are like, "Okay, yeah." And just not taking it in or is he being ambiguous and not

>> being clear? Yeah, the the the second.

Yeah. Okay. The latter. >> Did he did he have uh grades and end of

seme if if you're a VA student, you would have visual arts student, you would have a portfolio that you've started your freshman year. So, he would have examples of art and examples of um

all different sorts of product. Have you seen all that stuff?

>> Uh some of it. Yeah.

>> Have you seen the grades? It's >> been a while. No, have not seen any grades. Um, >> level with us. >> This is >> level with us. Jay, do you think he's still in school or do you think something else? >> I do. >> Okay. Okay. >> I do. I do think I do think he's in a situation where he is um kind of up

against the wall. He got he told us he got sick during the first the first

semester there and he got behind on some of his classes. And I believe that he

did get a job. He never had a job before when he was here, but he has a job now,

but it's not enough to generate. And we

did recommend maybe looking into other options like a small student loan or

something like that, but really without an income, I just I wasn't sure whether or not he was going to be able to, you know, uh pass and the uh the formalities

of getting a student loan.

>> Yeah. when he didn't have a job. But he does have a job now. >> I don't even know if you can get a federal student loan to qualify for an overseas university.

This Jay, this is not I worked with college students for 20 years. This is not passing my smell test. >> Yeah, it's not sounding good. But there's two sides of it.

I I want to confirm that there's two sides of this here. I agree with John. I would not keep shelling out money for purposes that you don't know of or what it's being used for. That's thing one.

there was a lack of expectation and lack of clear conversation on you know how

we're going to school, who's paying for it, what's on the table, what's not on the table, what my responsibility is, what your responsibility is. That conversation clearly was never had. And so when you do come to your son and say,

"Hey son, I can't give you any more money for this. Uh here's why." But I also want to go back and say, "Here's what I should have done that I didn't do. 100%. >> Yeah. >> Does that make sense? >> He did a lot He did a lot of it on his own. Uh 75% of it was done on his own.

And um >> you still don't even know what it is.

>> Right. >> What I'm saying >> that has that has been a source of bothering u me and his mother for over a year now.

So, if if my kid came if my kid came to me and said, "Hey, I'm spending 35 grand of my own money that I saved up. Would you help me with the last 10 grand to go to college?" I would be thrilled.

Absolutely. >> Sure. >> But we'd still sit down before I wrote a check for $10,000 a semester, 40 grand

over the course of four years. I would still sit down and say, "What are you studying? >> What's your plan with this? What is your day-to-day going to look like? How can I love you here?" And by the way, I again, every college is different and I can't speak for overseas colleges. I know I spent a ton of my time taking students

who got sick psychologically, physically, who know like cancer, psychiatric issues, all of it, helping them get back on their feet and be successful that semester andor the next one. And so just it it just doesn't

something's not adding up, >> right? Yeah. And so I love Jade. What Jade said is so important though because if you sit down and say, "Hey, I don't know what's going on. I don't then

he's got to have to defend himself." >> If you sit down and say, "Hey, I I blew this whole college thing and I want to start over. I I need some more information. I didn't do a good job. I wasn't clear up front.

I didn't ask you what your major is. I didn't tell you I want to see your some of the work. I want to know what the plan is. Why are we studying overseas?

What kind of job or life do you want to have? Are you going to live overseas when you get out of school?

Are you going to come back home? I want to know some of those questions because

Jay, the question I'm hearing him ask beneath the real question is I don't know where my son is and what's going on. >> Yeah. And he's nowhere near me. He's in another country, >> right? >> Yeah. I there's there's a lot going on.

I'm not going to lie. Um, but I do want

to make sure that I'm being really clear just not only for Jay, but for other listeners, too. When it comes to college, John, you know, being able to pay for school, whether all of it or a portion of it, is really a privilege for both parties. It's a privilege for the child to receive it and it's a privilege for the parent to have the financial ability to say, "Here's this money for your education." Like, that's an amazing thing. That being said, it's not a requirement.

Like it doesn't make you a good parent or a bad parent if you can't afford to pay it.

that is so so important, you've got to have these conversations before the fact. Yes. >> And you've got to have them more than once because you hear something and you know, information gets lost and details get forgotten. It's up to us as the parent to have these conversations and say, "Hey, here's what it is.

When you go to college, here's what we're going to do. We got to pick a place that you can afford.

Um, here's what you need to do. We're expecting you to work. We're expecting you to earn $800. Like, be specific.

We're expecting you to cover your room and board. We're expecting you to cover, you know, your apartment. We're expecting you to live on campus. We're expect we're expecting to give you $3,000 a month. Be so clear and talk

about it as much as possible so that when the time comes, there's no question. >> And start talking about it your freshman year of high school. >> Yes. Yes, >> it doesn't sneak up on you.

It's like Christmas. It will be there in four years. And it's a simple reverse engineering math problem to say, we're going to have this many dollars in an account to help you. >> You're going to be responsible for this.

And by the way, here's what the top three colleges in our state cost. Or this is reality. >> Or like my dad said, hey, you ain't got a college fund, so you better be good at sports or you better get an academic scholarship.

>> And tell them that their freshman year of high school, not their second semester senior year. >> Facts. We'll be right back.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Uh, live in Fairwind's Credit Union studio taking calls here with Dr. John Deloney.

I'm Jade Warshaw. And what is this? Is this Ken Coleman producing the show today? >> Yes, he's back there producing this segment.

>> All right, it's going to go off the rails. We got Roger who's in Florida on the line. Hey, Roger. How can we help today? >> Thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm I'm retired about four years now, and I have a sister who's been estranged from the family for a very long time, and

I've been sending her about $700 a month for about 10 years. >> Oh my goodness. Wow.

>> Yeah. Well, she um she's never really

had a job. Um she lives in another state

out west and um currently um my wife is

about to retire and the source that I'm

pulling this money from is going to dry up. >> Oh man. >> And and so I'm in a spot and everybody

told me I was going to be in this spot.

you know that um I'm not sure I can sustain her lifestyle.

>> You can't. >> She's never had a >> I know. But Roger, she's never had a job cuz she's never had to.

>> Right. Yeah. Oh, she's never worried about tomorrow. >> Well, she hasn't had to because you did for a decade. >> Yeah. Right. >> 10 years is a long time, >> man. >> No, it is a long time. If you add it up, plus the incidentals along the way, it's a huge chunk of money in my world. I was a modest income guy, but I kind of did the right things that allowed me to retire comfortably.

>> Um, and I have a little royalty source, but that royalty source is going to dry it up, and that's what I used to fund this. >> So, that means it's over, >> I guess. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I guess my question for you guys is there has to be social services

that actually could step in for somebody who's 75 years old and really doesn't

have means. And that's where I'm kind of falling short and trying to discover those sources. >> Yeah, they're there. She could be on Medicaid or you know what what have you.

But don't you think that's hers to discover?

>> I'd like to think so, but in some ways she just doesn't have that ability to

figure this stuff out. >> Is something going on? Is she Does she have uh any disability mentally that's

uh developmental? there something that's causing her medically speaking to not be able to do these things that you know about? >> No, there's not there's not really that.

I I think it's more of someone who's just been naive their whole life about this kind of things, maybe doing end runs around the system, whatever it might be. >> And and somebody who

for the majority of her adult life has had other people just stepping in and taking care of it. Well, I won't say

that's the case. You know, she's been married a few times and she currently has a husband that's not well. They've always seemed to put things together in a very simple way.

>> She has a husband. >> Yeah. Let me let me reverse this.

>> If you called her and said,

um, I have a hard conversation to have with you. Let me know in the next week when we can have this conversation.

and you say, "Hey, the I've been sending you $700 a month for the last 10 years

in 60 days in two more months that I'm not able to make those payments anymore.

And so I'm not going to be able to send any more money. And so I'm giving you two months notice. I've been doing this for a long long time. So I'm giving you two months or even three months notice.

And I'm going to send you I'm going to Google I Googled this for you. You can do this also, but I Google I'm googling Florida research." uh Florida resources for elderly folks. And I'm just assuming that's where she lives. >> Um >> well actually uh she lives out in Nevada. >> Okay. Okay. Nevada resources. 61F does another >> and

>> I wish you the absolute best.

>> Yeah. >> And and here's the thing. Is she call you on a weekly basis and say, "Hey, I need help with resources." >> No, she doesn't. She's not a guilt trip type person in this thing.

>> Okay. Then why do you why do you why do you take yourself on guilt trips that she's not asking you to go on?

>> True. I will say that and I think it's a little bit of loyalty to her. Although we I've seen her like three times in 30 years, you know, it's a little bit trying to be the good guy in this whole thing. >> I know. But you've been you've been solving a problem that it sounds like nobody ever even asked you to solve.

>> Well, no. I Yeah, true, too. I stepped in, you know, at a I stepped in at a lower amount of money several years ago.

And of course, life gets more expensive, so I increased it. And I did, you know,

I don't if I still had the whereol to

supply her and keep her whole, I would do it. Now, things are things are changing. That's the point, you know.

>> Yeah. You know, around me and my family.

>> You can do what you want. >> Roger. I don't think we can help you, my guy, because I you want to do this

>> and as long as you want to keep doing this, you're going to keep doing it. Like you just said, if you had more money to keep doing it, you'd keep doing it. >> And so I don't think I think we're at a bit of an impass in the way that you feel the need to do this. You, like you said, your sister, she's not coming to you saying, "Help me figure this out." You're just up and doing it.

And at that point, then, yeah, it's just your choice. We're not mad at you. Uh, but since you called and asked, "How do I tell my sister that I can't be her long lifelong safety net?" We're telling you, you just up and call her and say, "Hey, I know I've done this for 10 years.

And not only is it running out, but I've also realized I can't keep doing this.

You're gonna have to figure out a way to come up with that $700 on your own." And it truly is um the conversation truly is

that simple. I know it's harder to actually play out, but the bigger work

is for you to figure out why you're having a hard time letting this go.

>> Yeah. No, you're absolutely right.

>> Did Can I ask a question? I have an inkling. I I don't know if I'm right, but >> just listening to you talk, and John is here, so he'll he'll set us both straight. But just listening to you talk, it almost makes me wonder if a long time ago something happened that you felt like you were supposed to be there and you weren't and you're just making up for it.

I don't know the home you guys grew up in. I don't know anything like that. But I just wonder, are you trying to make up for something? Is there something that your sister should have you should have been there for and you weren't there?

I don't know.

No, it's a fair question. I think the basic root of it all is she's family and

it's like, you know, what desperation she'll go into >> if this money's not there.

>> You know, it's like pulling the plug saying, "Okay, um, you know, before when

I've talked to her about it, she goes, >> "Yeah, and this is the guilt thing. Well, I guess I'm going to have to sleep in my car, you know." >> Well, where's her husband? You said he's ill. Is he just not able to contribute?

No, they're not at a point where she she's never had a job, so getting a job would be very difficult for her at 74.

And he he's ill where he really can't work. So, >> you know, they're living and and this this is the point, you know, um >> listen, if you want to be if you want to be generous, to John's point, we're never going to stop you from being generous. If you feel, hey, I'm called to this. This is what I feel like doing.

But there is a component to this that you've also got to be able to afford that. And you said that you set yourself up to be able to retire, but you also said the source that you were pulling from to fund this is drying up. So the

question you have to ask yourself is, is there another source that I can pull from that's not going to take away from my family's ability to retire and be comfortable in my legacy. And if you can do that, and if you want to do that, you

know what? That's your bag. I do think that you're enabling her. I truly do believe that based on what you're saying. Um, >> and you can't enable somebody and then complain that they um are

>> failure to launch. >> That's right. Yeah. >> If you're going to keep funding it, you have to do that with a glad, cheerful heart and stop talking bad about your sister.

[Music]

[Music]

All right, back to the phone lines we go. John, are you ready?

>> Let's do All right, Elijah Dallas, Texas on the line. What's up, Elijah? I like that name, by the way.

>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you guys for taking my call.

>> What up? >> It's really good to be on the Ramsey show. Been a big fan for a long time.

>> Glad to hear it. How can we help today?

>> So, I followed Ramsay's rule about buying a cash car um and not getting

into a car payment. So, the car that I

have currently, um, it was a 20th

birthday present and

sorry about that. Um, it was a 20th birthday present. I put half and my parents put the other half.

>> Lately, this car has become a this car

has become a nuisance. The, for

instance, when we first bought it, we had to put a,000 into it to get a new engine. um about a year ago had to put

another 3,000 because the transmission went out. >> Yikes. >> By the way, all by the way, all paid for with cash, no financing. >> Good. >> Um >> you you replaced the two big rocks, >> right? At this point, it's only up from here.

>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um now,

when I was in college, we ran into some financial troubles after my father passed away. And um I played a role in

this as well, but I did run up about $6,500 in credit card debt.

>> Okay, >> recently I paid off $1,500 and I was

this close to rounding up all the money and then sending it for the biggest debt. >> Okay, >> here's what happened. Um first, another

$1,100 expense. Engine mounts went out.

>> Engine mounts went out. Okay, so that's not the 1,000 for a new engine. And that's a separate amount, 1,100.

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> And and then I was able to pay that and still be able to set myself up to be able to send all the money to my biggest debt, which is 3,500 as we speak.

>> Okay. >> 3,400 as of today.

>> Okay.

>> And then um fast forward um now the

starter and air compressor had gone out.

>> Oh my gosh. What kind of car is this?

You won't believe me if I tell you. It is the infamous It is a infamous Nissan.

It is the infamous Nissan Maxima.

>> Well, there you go. >> Oh, there's the problem right there, my friend. >> All right. So, here here's the bigger question, Elijah. And you know what I'm going to say? What Jay's going to say.

Here's a bigger question. Do you have 2500 bucks? Do you have 2,000 bucks to go buy yourself another car that's going to get you six or seven or eight months more down the road or one year down the road?

Because neither of us are going to tell you we would be bad humans if we told you, you know what, after all this bad luck, you should go get a $15,000 car note and just get yourself a new Toyota, whatever. >> We would not be good people if we told you to do that >> because we'd actually be taking you way further back. You're so close to the edge. It sounds like you're getting super frustrated that you keep getting close to the edge and then keep getting slapped back by life.

And I get that frustration, but the solution isn't My my buddy here, I'll give you this analogy.

I have a buddy named Jordan Scot. He's a fitness guy. He's a brilliant mind. He said, "People get on a diet and they start taking their nutrition really seriously and then they have one night where they just blow it. They just somebody shows up with a bag of Oreos and they just hammer it." >> Are you talking about me? >> I'm talking about myself. Literally, somebody dropped off a bag of Oreos the other day and I crushed it. But he said, "What people do then is they're like, "Well, I'm already off, so

the rules are off." And he said, "That's like walking outside in the morning and seeing you have a flat tire and then pulling out a

knife and going around and slashing the other three tires." And you have had a run of walking outside your house and seeing one of the tires flat and you're just so frustrated

by it, you want to grab your pocketk knife and go punch a hole in all the other tires. And Jade and I are going to tell you, "Please don't do that. You're so close, man. You've worked so hard to get this close." either pay the stupid money and pay off that crap and just >> get a starter and get a whatever and get on down the road a little bit further or go trade that car in.

>> Mhm. Yeah. What'd you pay for this Maxima?

>> So, I paid $12,976.

And >> that hurts. >> If if it's okay with you guys, I'd like to run a plan I put together once I get this car back. >> Okay. Um, it's very similar to what you guys actually just said about the $2,500. Okay.

>> The after all the repairs are done, I know the car will last me at least two and a half, three years. >> Okay. >> Within that time, what I want to do is just put together 7500, 8 grand, and

then actually go the Toyota Lexus route, get a 2007, get a 2008.

>> Yeah. >> Buy that. And then just get rid of this car, let it go for 40,500, five grand.

>> Yeah. I love that. Love that.

>> Okay, so that's a good idea.

>> I have an 06 Toyota that I it will it will last longer than me. It won't stop driving. >> Yes, I think you're right.

>> The the only caveat is because now I

will say so currently in my personal checking that I'm using to pay for this, there's $2,400 sitting in there at the moment. >> Okay, >> the repair the the repairs are going to be about $,750, maybe $1,800. That'll leave me with about $600 700 until my next payday next week.

>> Okay. >> Now, I want to know if this is still a good option because I like to keep at least 1,500. Actually, really, really three grand in my checking account at all times. >> Why? >> But as you can see, I've had a few setbacks. >> Why do you like to keep three grand? That's a big cushion for someone who's in baby step, too. Why is that?

>> I guess you can say I'm very extreme and I like to have money laying around for the emergencies. Yeah, but I also >> Okay. Okay. Here's the thing.

You get to choose. Are you working our plan or are you working Elijah's plan? Because if you are working Elijah's plan, that'll let me know. I'm tracking with you on Elijah's plan.

But if you're working our plan, which it sounded like you said you were, then I got to hold you accountable. So, just let me know right quick. And that'll that'll inform what we say next. >> Because here here's a weird thing, Elijah.

>> 25. >> Okay. Here's a weird thing I figured out. If I have $3,000 in an account and

a mechanic says it's$,750.

It's annoying and I exhale and I got

1750. I'm going to give it to you. I only got 1,200 bucks left. This is the worst whatever how much much we got left. Okay. 1,300 bucks left.

>> If I only have that $1,000 emergency fund, that's all I got. A I got $2,000 less of debt. >> Come on. >> Which for you is a big chunk of what you got left. And then when that guy says$,750, I say, I can show you my checking account. I have $1,000. What can we do right now? And then he's going to go, >> I bet you I can get a good used part right here that will last you for another year. Hang on.

>> Or I can't help you get out of my shop.

And you say, cool. I'll go find another person. Mhm. >> And what happens is you force yourself into some sort of creativity that you

you have to you have to find a way, which humans had to do for all of human history until like 50 or 60 or 75 years ago. >> That's that's that's the reason we stick to the plan the way it is. >> Yeah. I I I I truly I couldn't I couldn't applaud what John just said more. You got to decide how you're going to tackle this because that $3,000 really is a huge catalyst in how this plays out.

So, um, going So,

for for the solution, would you say as soon as I get it back, trade this in and get a $2,500 car?

>> Uh, no. I was with you. I'm with you on the idea that it's best to go ahead and do the repairs on this car, ride it out, cuz you said if, hey, if I do the $1,700 of repairs, I'm going to be able to ride this car for the next 2, three years.

And then during that time, yeah, save up the 8,000 and get you something more reliable. But what I really want to attack is having and I want to talk to

the masses on this. Yes, doing a zerobased budget should never mean zero dollars in your account. You need to have some form of cushion in your account. But what that cushion is does depend greatly on what baby step you're in.

Okay? Uh if you're in baby step two, you need as much money at your disposal for debt as possible. So when you think through a cushion, you're really thinking, "Okay, John, what is the worst that could happen that I would not have planned for in my budget? What Amazon Prime subscription hits me?

It'sundred and I don't know how much it costs these days. 160 bucks, right, for the year." That's kind of what it is. It's like what's the worst could happen? Grandma's birthday hits, Amazon happens.

So when you're in baby step two, that really is looking like three 300 bucks. Maybe maybe a little bit more than that because what it's not, the cushion is not an emergency fund. That's not what it is. Baby step one was the emergency fund or baby step three is the emergency fund.

[Music]

So, if you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and feeling like you just can't get ahead, you need to join one of our free every dollar trainings. There are new trainings that we do every single month and they're all hosted by a Ramsey personality, uh, one of the money personalities, myself, George Camel, uh, Rachel Cruz, and we show you how to stick to your budget and even find $3,000 of margin using every dollar so

that you can actually get out of debt and start building wealth. Plus, you can ask us any questions during the live Q&A. So, if you're interested in this, go ahead and sign up today for free at ramiesolutions.com/webinar.

Alrighty then. Scott is in Jacksonville, Florida. Scott, what's up, man? How can we help? >> Hi, Jade and John. Thanks for taking my call. >> You're welcome. >> I have an estate question. Uh, I'd like to start some sort of uh fund for my six grandchildren. Um, two of the grandchildren have 529s. The other four grandchildren do not. And I'm just wondering the best way to start that fund for them. They're between ages one and a half to six years old. >> You are awesome, dude.

You are awesome.

>> I listen to your show a lot and I haven't really heard any questions like this. So, I I'm glad I got through to ask you and Jade about it.

>> Yeah, for sure. So, you've got these grandkids. Are you What's the intent of the money? Are you like, "Hey, I want to help them with education. I want to buy their first car." Tell us a little bit more of what you're thinking here.

>> Okay. The two of the grandchildren, they have college educated parents. are uh all three of our adult kids are married and and four of the parents are college educated. So, two of the grandkids have a 529 already in place.

>> The other four aren't sure about what their kids are going to do. One isn't one couple isn't sure about what college will look like in 18 years. Um the other one is a single income uh couple and uh

you know they're living on one income and I just want to be able to kind of put money aside for whatever they might need. if they want to go to a trade school, if they want to buy a car, if they want to let the money roll and and eventually help them with a down payment on a house, or if they get to 55, you know, have some money for retirement.

I'm I'm not quite sure. I'm just wondering the best way to to kind of structure it. >> Yeah. So, if it were if I were in your shoes, I'd probably talk to the parents first.

Uh so, let me kind of put myself in your shoes. I'd say, "Hey, I want to give the kids money. What do you guys think?" So, my first thing would be like, yeah, if you can help us get this 529 to where it's going to be, that would be amazing, right? And then the next thing would be, okay, from there, uh, we do utmost for the kids every year.

You know, we contribute. If you can help us contribute to this UTMA, that'd be great because when they're 18, we're going to transfer that money over to them.

really want to do is help them with the down payment for their first house you know when they're you know 28 years old that sort of thing. So I would talk to the parent first and find out really kind of what the need is since for you it seems to be hey whatever whatever they need we'll fund. And then from there on I'd see okay what do they have in place and how can I contribute this money to them. Uh, how much are you thinking of gifting every single year?

>> Well, I thought I'd start with maybe a a you know, a seed gift of maybe two grand per child. Okay. And then kind of go from there. Um, seeing how they're so young, I could put it in, you know, a more riskier investment vehicle, you know, that might grow quicker, you know, and still weather the ups and downs of the stock market, I guess, is what I was thinking.

>> Yeah. And what And who And you would just place them as the beneficiary. Is that what you're thinking? Cuz I feel like you could do >> Yeah.

Beneficiary.

>> I'd work with the parents and maybe do an UTMA, something that you can transfer that'll go over to their name when they're, you know, of legal age.

>> Okay. I, like I said, two of the grandkids already have 529, so I could just with those parents, I've already talked to them. Mhm. >> I'm sure they would just take the money and put it in their existing 529s. It's the other four parents that really have nothing in in place right now at all.

>> Oh, you know what? >> I misunderstood you when you said before that the other the other two kids had 529s. I for some reason in my mind I thought you meant that they were fully funded. Like they didn't need any more in the 529.

>> Oh, no. I don't think so. I I think they would take any contribution we have.

>> Okay, then I would I would focus on that because here's the thing. Even if you even if they overfund the 529s over time, that money can be transferred in other ways. Matter of fact, over time, it can actually be transferred to a a Roth IRA or IRA over time. So, I

wouldn't be too concerned with overfunding it. And the truth is

>> with any 529, there's that risk of, well, what if the kid doesn't go to college, right? So, I would I would start with a 529s for all kids. for the families that don't yet have them set up, I would say, "Hey, uh, I want to do this seed money of $2,000. Can I help set up a 529 for you guys, that's what our mother, my mother-in-law did for Sam and I, and it's been great." So, I think it's a really, really great gift that you're trying to give, and that's the way I do it.

Good call.

Thanks for the call. All right, I think we have time to go to Mike who's in Ohio. What's up, Mike?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call.

>> No problem. How can we help?

Uh so my question was uh my wife and I

recently bought a house and um the

monthly payment uh with both of our income combined is pretty reasonable.

It's like a third a little less than a third of our income. >> Okay. >> But um we just found out we're having our first kid and the plan was we were going to have her quit working.

>> Mhm. Um, but the problem is is with just my income alone, it's going to be a lot trickier. >> Yeah. What will that mortgage be with just your income?

>> Uh, so the payment is like 2475

of right now. Um, >> and then so that would be like 45% of my

income. >> Um, okay.

>> Yeah, that doesn't work. So how we have to solve for that, right?

>> Right. So, the plan hopefully was I can refinance in a few months and I'll get like the like all the fees and everything covered for that.

>> Um, but that would kind of right around coincide when she's my wife is due. So,

I was just my question basically is >> should we go back to renting when you know the rent was like 1,900 versus 24

so it's not a huge difference. Uh, or should we just stick with it and try to refinance the house? When you refinance it, well, I have a couple of questions.

When you refinance it, what will the payment go down to?

>> Uh, so I'm trying to get a lower interest rate because it's really high. So, I don't know exactly. I've looked at a few like, oh, if we got 5%, it would be like 2,000. So, um, it's kind of up

in the air, but >> Okay. >> Hopefully would be better. >> What's your take-home pay?

>> Uh, so I take home 5,500 a month after

like taxes and everything. Okay.

>> Uh, so >> 2,000 would still be way too much,

>> right? >> Yeah. >> So that sounds like and I mean five 5%.

You know, that's that's a pretty good rate. So I don't think you're going to get anything lower than 5%. So knowing that 5% would get you to 2,000 and that's still not near the 25% mark. I

don't think that that can be a plan.

Would you agree with that?

Yeah, it does sound sounds tough. So, >> yeah, I mean that's a that's a that's a big old percent when you're bringing home 5,500.

So, I think in this season, yeah, it

could be that you guys are looking at selling your house because how are you

going to exist on that small percentage of your income? Do you see what I'm saying? I hate You got to You got to hear me, Mike. I hate telling folks that they have to sell their house, but when you tell me the numbers, I'm bringing home 5,500 and maybe we can get a best possible scenario, maybe we can get it to 2,000.

It's tough, right?

>> How much have you paid down on this house? How much equity do you have in it? >> Uh we have I think like 20,000 right

now. Uh, we bought the house really recently, but >> um, we got it for under the appraisal >> because I was gonna >> Jade, I don't I haven't really heard us talk much on this show about this. I think I've only heard it one other time, but this I was wondering if this was a moment for a recast where you're the the

the length of the mortgage and your interest rate stays the same, but it basically recast your payment based on what you owe remaining. And that can really drop your monthly payment down without having to go through all the rigomearo of a finance a refinance and all that, but you don't have enough equity. You got 20,000 bucks. That wouldn't change your life at all. >> Yeah. You would usually do that after you've paid off a a big sum. Yeah.

>> Um in this case, I hate telling you this, but I think for you guys, yeah, getting out of this house, because the truth is, it's not like you've done something really irresponsible. Your life has just changed in a major way, right? you've had you have a baby coming and your wife is now saying I'm not going to contribute by working outside of the home. I'm going to work inside of the home. So yeah, your financial situation changes. It's okay if your living situation has to change as well.

So don't feel any guilt or negativity.

>> You have a new life now. You have a new kid and so we have to readjust for our new life. >> Yeah. New house, new housing situation.

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

Ramsey shows scripture and quote of the day. Psalm 37:23-

24. The Lord makes firm the steps of the one who delights in him. Though he may stumble, he will not fall, for the Lord upholds him with his hand. Slash from

Guns and Roses said, "No one expects the rug to be yanked out from underneath him. Life-changing events usually don't announce themselves." >> Amen. >> That's a fact. >> We wouldn't have jobs, Jade, if that wasn't >> Life-changing Moments are not a bug of the human experience. It's a feature.

>> It's It's hurt and challenge and pain and unexpected things is life, >> man. >> It's life.

>> In a cold November rain.

>> Booyah.

>> Just had to do that anyway.

>> And by the way, just as a call back,

Axel didn't, but Slash wore long shorts as he should.

Axel wore very, very, very short.

>> He did. You know, Slash has aged very well underneath that hat, I might add.

Like, you really can't tell what's going on underneath there. >> Hey, he's done a good job.

>> Trace is in Salt Lake City, Utah. What's

up, Trace? How can we help?

>> Hey, how are you? >> We're doing good. What's up with you?

>> Good. >> Um, so me and my wife, we are 21 years old. We have a combined income of $130,000 a year. We're in baby steps four and six with no kids yet. We um we

started investing into our retirement in July >> and uh wanted to know if we can put more

into each one of our Roth IAS to get it up to the 7,000 for each one of us instead of putting more on the mortgage until April. So then does that make sense? So we can >> so we can uh >> max out that Roth for both of us before April so we can do it again. uh for that

for the next year. Yeah, that makes sense. >> Maxing out the Roth, so putting the 7,000 or 7,500, I can't remember what it is this year. >> Does that put you over the 15% of your income?

>> Um, so yes, but we'll we'll max out my Roth at 7,000 or 500. >> Mhm. >> And then we want to also max out my whites, which I think we could do another 7,000, right? >> I Yeah, I understand that. But I'm saying that 14,000 together, is that more than the 15% of your take-home pay?

>> Um, it would >> gross pay. >> It would be. Um, and we we are still paying the house off um like the 15-year mortgage. We still have on the 15-year.

>> Mhm. >> So, just for the six months, um I don't know, like I said, just to take advantage, >> okay, >> of the tax-free growth.

>> So, you told me you do that. >> You told me you make $130,000 a year.

So, 15% of that would be 19,500. That's

what you have for the year to put aside.

So, you're wanting to put 7,000 in hers, 7,000 in yours. That's 14. So, technically, you still have another 5,500. What are you going to do with that? >> Um, and that that's another question, too. Do I do I do the traditional or do I just put it into a brokerage account?

Um, we had just recently started making 130,000 a year. >> Ah, are you self-employed or do you have 401ks through your job?

>> Um, we I work for the state, so I have a pension and a 401k. Um, she she doesn't

if and so we just do the individual Roth IAS for each one. >> Okay. So, I love that you're doing the individual Roth IAS. I'd love for you to put the remaining 5,500 into your 401k.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, that's what I would do. Um, because it's tax advantaged in a better way than just a typical brokerage account. Um, so I would do that. Now,

what percentage uh your pension, do you know what percentage that is? What does that look like? Because that's part of this equation as well.

>> Yeah, I I get 60% of it when I retire at 35, but they don't take anything out of my pay. >> Oh, okay. >> If it is if it's it's not much at all.

>> Okay. Then I wouldn't really add that in then. Okay. So, yeah, do the two uh Roth IAS and then put the rest into your 401k. Do you know I'm guessing the 401k is traditional or is it Roth? Just curious. Um, it's either So, I can do a

Roth 401k or the 403b.

>> Yeah, definitely do the Roth 401k option. Okay. >> Okay. >> That way, you're paying the taxes now instead of later.

>> Okay, sounds good. Appreciate it.

>> All right. I love that. And then, yeah, beyond that, any money that you have extra, you're going to throw that on to since you're in baby steps four, five, and six, you're going to put extra payments or extra money, I should say, towards your house. And you and your wife can decide what that looks like.

It can change throughout the seasons. It doesn't have to be double payments every time, right? You're in a a season of intentionality. You don't have to be as intense.

So, that's up to you guys to discover, you know, what the rhythm of that looks like in your life.

I like it. All right. Kevin in Houston, Texas, >> Beach Town, >> what up? What up?

>> How's it going? Can you hear me fine? >> We got you, dude. What's up?

>> Hey, I just had a general question

pretty much. I'm trying to figure out where should I draw the line whenever it comes to spending a little bit of extra money on things that aren't necessary

but add a little bit of extra comfort in your day-to-day or just overall life.

And I can give you a couple examples of what I'm trying to talk about here.

>> Yeah, tell me. >> That helps. >> Give us one. >> Yeah. So, for example, I recently bought my first um economy plus seat seat on a

flight. Um, it was never something that I that I couldn't afford. It was just something that I didn't really want to spend extra money on. Um, I'm 61 for

reference and a lot of these airlines are getting kind of criminal with how little leg room they give. >> Amen. >> I decided, okay, I will uh I'll splurge a little bit. And it was the flight was just 20 million times more comfortable.

I could >> take my feet out a bit. I could lay back and it was so much better.

>> But it wasn't necessary to achieve the goal. >> Okay, let me ask you this. kind of feeling a bit guilty about it. Yeah.

>> That's Where's the story that you picked up? Where's it from?

That anything above necessary is wrong

or um morally bankrupt.

>> So, I guess my position isn't that it's wrong, morally bankrupt. I guess what I'm trying to avoid is kind of just going down >> the uh slippery slope of I just end up spending a lot of money on the things that I don't need, right? Just because it makes me feel better.

>> Okay. >> But but that's my question is what are some things that I should spend extra money on just because it adds a little extra comfort. >> Feeling better is okay. That's what I'm trying to get to. I I I

for me the I cross the line when I start thinking I deserve this.

>> Okay, >> that's when it crosses that's that's a moral line in my head that I don't ever want to cross.

But, you know, if you are going to a work trip and you get that, you pay that

extra $100 or whatever it is to get extra leg room on that flight and it lets you stretch out and let you sleep versus being cramped, then you're you walk a little bit taller, you're a little bit more rested and you can go handle yourself in that meeting a little bit better. And there's that's just a fact. That's a truth.

>> Yeah. Agreed. >> Okay. And so, if you want to get tactile

about it, we can put an ROI on that. I think it's a waste of time and money and effort.

The reality is if you can pay cash for it and you have it and it's something that will make your day a little bit better that >> do it. >> Do it. >> I mean, I I'll give you a little bit more practical because I I get it. I kind of have a checklist that I go through in my brain, Kevin, that is kind of the green light uh to quote Andre 3000 if I can do this right.

Uh so number one is am I a person who's out of debt? If the green light is yes, check it. Right? Then I say, am I a person who budgets their money?

Like, am I on a budget? Am is this part? Can I make this part of my budget? Yes.

Am I do I carry the proper insuranceances? Right? Have I done the things that I need to make sure I'm taking care of my family? Life insurance, term life insurance, that kind of thing.

Green light. Am I saving for the future? Right? Do do I have 3 to six months set aside?

Am I, you know, saving for a down payment for a home, which is also a form of savings? Am I doing those things that are important? Yes. And finally, have I prioritized generosity in my life?

If I'm doing those five things and I have five green lights, yeah, buy the upgraded seat.

know, do those things. They're fun.

Matter of fact, if you want another piece of this is for anybody listening, you should spend, if you've checked those five green lights, you should spend money on fun. Fun N. That is

upgrade your food, right? You're not eating Top Ramen anymore. Spend more on groceries is what I'm saying. You should spend money on upgrades. That's the U. Yeah, upgrade your your plane seat.

Upgrade your furniture. Upgrade your jeans. And finally, the N is for new experiences. Yeah, go on vacation. Go to

a concert you've never been to. We want you guys to enjoy spending money because that's what it's there for. Uh you get out of debt and you do all of this, John, so that so that you can increase

your leg room, so that you can have a better life quality with your money.

Like that's the whole point of this whole thing.

>> Remember, >> being comfortable isn't the worst thing.

>> You're right. Remember, there's only way to walk with there's only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of Jesus, Christ Jesus.

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## 271. You Don’t Have to Retire Broke—Time Changes Everything | June 5, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us, America. George Camel Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at88255225.

It's a free call and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.

John is in Fresno. Hey John, what's up in your world?

>> Hey, I'm a huge fan of both you guys.

Um, so I'm I'm debtree. I'm

self-employed. I've got six figures in the bank, but by contrast, my girlfriend

I've been with for four years. Uh, has

really, really bad spending habits. It's almost like she doesn't know the difference between what she needs and what she wants. And I'm trying to get her on board with some goals or some budgeting, but it's just really hard. You know, she's she's just overspending on a whole bunch of stuff.

And we're trying to move and leave California, and I just don't know how to move forward or what, you know, what to really do. >> Wow. How old is she?

>> Uh she is uh she's about to be 32.

>> What's she make? How much income?

>> Well, she would make about

16 to 1,800 a month, but she gives up a lot of her hours and she doesn't drive.

So, there's ride share. She's buying a lot of food at work instead of instead of cooking or packing something.

>> No, that wasn't I wasn't asking about her food. I was asking about her work.

Does she work full time or is she doing side gigs? >> What? No, I'm just saying that's where that's where a lot of the money goes. And then she doesn't have enough to pay for 1,600 bucks a month in California is poverty.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And so where how did she

exist before you?

>> She lived with either friends or family,

but she used to walk to work. And

I guess it I guess it's never really been a lot of income for her. Mhm.

>> You guys live together? >> Yeah. They're talking about moving away together. >> So, you've been Have you been subsidizing some of this behavior? She can get away with it. Is that part of the issue?

>> A little bit. And I was going to say I really don't want to enable further, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> This is sticky, dude. It's really sticky. Okay. So, um, how old are you?

>> 33. What do you make?

>> Um, I'm doing pretty good. I I make uh So I am like a sideyear guy. Uh but I make about four to five a month.

>> Mhm. >> But I got I got a lot of bills. I drive >> talk about moving to where

>> uh Nevada. >> Why?

>> Uh no state income tax. I can actually

I can actually put a down payment on a condo, start building some equity. I don't know. >> Affordable real estate and less income and and no income tax. Okay, those are good reasons. All right. >> Also, not a big fan of California for other reasons. >> Okay. So, the um

the thing we know is the data tells us the number one cause of divorce in North America today is money fights and money problems. These are people that are on two completely different pages. Not different personality styles, but different pages, different values completely. And so they spend their

married life driving each other crazy.

You being a tight wad that crosses every tea and dots every eye and doesn't come out of the cave except on triple coupe on Thursday. And her spending like she's in freaking Congress.

Never the twain shall meet, right?

>> Yeah. And so, um, I mean, I don't want

her to become a super tight wad nerd like you, although I think you're awesome. Uh, because I'm kind of that way, but I do want, she's a free spirit.

I do want her to maintain a free spirit.

But, um, in order to qualify as wife material, she would have to be more emotionally mature. And so far, this lady does just enough to get by. Thank God it's Friday. Oh, God, it's Monday.

Who can help me out?

>> Yeah. and you've kind of got a little bit further vision. You're going to go a few places she's not going to get to go unless she goes with you. And uh as long

as she is engaged in this behavior and you are in this relationship, you are not going to be happy.

>> Am I wrong?

>> Don't think so. >> Okay. >> Is there anything you can say or do that you think would actually change her behavior?

>> I don't know. That's ultimately what I've been trying to figure out. I mean, I've been trying to give her some tips, you know, like, you know, stop.

>> It was a trick question. She's You can't change her. It's And here's the hard truth. She's either going to become emotionally mature while you're together or it's going to take the breakup for her to get her act together. And right

now, it feels like the option is she's going to have to learn it the hard way. If we switched gears and you said you had a daughter and she was dating a guy who spent everything he made, didn't work much and was out of control with

his impulses, you would look at your daughter and say, "Run away quickly, wouldn't you?"

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And so I'm going to tell you that except I don't want to be quite that brutal. But I am saying don't marry this.

Don't marry this. You're going to have a long life. It'll be miserable. and don't live together and don't move to Nevada together.

So, you guys need to sit down and, you know, like the teenagers used to say, define the relationship. Okay? If this is going towards marriage, then we are going to have to both be grown-ups. And that's going to require a reasonable level of spending control on your part where you still enjoy life, not nerdy like me, but you still enjoy life, but you control your spending.

and a reasonable level of work ethic on your part where you actually freaking work and work while you're at work and stuff like that. And um you know, work is not an excuse to eat. Work is an excuse to work.

you know, we're going to we're going to walk through those kinds of things. And I the lady you've described has a long

path to get to where I need her to be before I would want to marry her.

>> And don't move to Nevada with somebody and shack up with them that you're not going to marry. That's just weird sex.

>> Well, no, that wasn't The plan was to eventually marry if it could work.

>> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, if you're going to get if you're going to move to Nevada together, get married, but don't get married until >> I wouldn't make the move until you figure this out. >> I I think you can move and then you continue the relationship long distance and just watch the behavior and say, "Honey, this is how I'm going to handle my life. You're going to be miserable with me because this is how I do things

and I'm going to be miserable with you because this is how I do things. And uh maybe we're not compatible, but let's talk about it. And do you want to work on that part of your life? And if you do, let's talk about it and we can continue forward. And this is kind of turning a a romance into a bit of a

formula. But dude, it's a formula.

I heard an old man tell me one time, he said, "If you marry a woman that loves to spend money, you better enjoy working." >> It's a good That's a good line right there. >> And of course, the shoe could be on the other foot, too, by the way. We could flip that over.

You know, I gotta upgrade. I gotta upgrade.

>> That's a tough one. You know, marriage is hard, but making your life even harder knowingly marrying someone. Yeah, >> that's tough. You want You want to marry someone who's going to make your life easier. So, John, we're not just bearers of tidings of good news today. I'm sorry, but um but I you know, I would sit down with her. Maybe you guys enter some couples counseling and begin to talk through these things. But the deal is, if this behavior pattern continues,

neither one of you are going to enjoy it.

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Mary is in Pittsburgh.

Uh, there she is. Hey, Mary's in Pittsburgh. What's up, Mary? >> Hi. Hi, guys. I'm so excited to have you have me today. Um I really appreciate your show. You've taught me so much.

I've learned so much about finances and

I'm 66 years old.

>> Um we've recently paid off all our debt.

We paid off two cars in 5 years.

>> Wow. >> $80,000.

>> And I we only have 10,000 in our emergency fund and about 10,000 in my

401k. And he's a 1099. He has nothing.

>> Wow. >> So, >> okay. Does either of you have a pension coming in?

>> No.

>> Okay. >> No, we're renting. We have a low rent of 1,900. >> And what do y'all make? What's your income? >> Uh, it's about 125.

>> Okay. What do y'all do?

>> Um, I work for a nursing home. Um,

recent it's a recent job and he is an ISA.

>> Okay. All right. Um,

well, the good news is you have no debt.

Do you have no debt on your house as well? >> We're renting. >> You're renting. Okay.

>> Yeah, we've been renting for 10 years and I wanted to buy a house now that we are free, but I I don't know.

>> Mhm. >> I have no money.

>> No, you don't. Um, so um

Wow.

Okay. Number number one, I think the two of you need to look at each other and say, "We're going to be working a while." >> Yeah. >> We're not going to be like retiring next week. Um, and we're going to be working a lot because we have some catching up to do. We're behind.

>> Um, and so, you know, I I would think

about getting a very very modest house or condo that I put on a 15-year or even

a 10-year fixed rate >> mortgage. Very modest. And uh that's

after you save up a good down payment.

Meanwhile, I would get start putting at least 15% of your income away for

retirement. That's $15,000 a year.

That's not much. In 10 years, that's only $150,000. And that will only become about 350 or 400,000 uh by the 10 year mark, which makes you 76 years old >> with a couple hundred,000 in a paid for house >> if you pay the house off in 10 years because you buy very modestly.

>> Okay, >> but that's 10 years of hard work and you know, you can end up with a couple hundred two $300,000 and a paid for

house and if you just do those two things. But again, the house has to be super modest.

>> Yes. >> I mean, like, you're not proud of it, but it is yours, >> right? I love it. There's hope.

>> Yeah. >> I'm so happy. Yeah. >> This made my day. >> Yeah. So, I mean, but putting 15% of your income away, can both of you agree to do that and work 10 years?

>> Oh, yeah. Definitely. You're both hard workers. Um, I picked up this part-time job. I'm making like 40,000 here. I work

like 29 hours a week, but I get the social security. And then August, Dave, I get to make as much as I want for social security, not to take money out.

So, I'm excited for August.

>> I'm going full-time. Dave, thanks for from listening to you guys pushing us to do. Why don't you sit down with your smart investor pro and uh set up a

couple of Roth IAS and anything else you can come up with to set aside and let's get that going into some good growth stock mutual funds and then start chunking money aside as fast as you can for a big down payment on a small house.

>> All right. >> Yeah. And and but let's you know lay it all out to where in 10 years you're with a paid for house and 10 years of 15,000

you're going to be putting in more than that you're going to be putting in about 25,000. So 10 years will be uh 250,000

plus what would that grow to? You have 10,000 >> I crunch it for 10 years if they invest their 15% with no increase in income.

They'll be at about 350K at 76.

>> Yeah. And a paid for house and social security coming in. You'll be okay.

>> It's modest. Yeah. It's not like lavish, but you'll survive and not be eating, >> you know, rice and beans forever hopefully. >> But here here's the trick, Mary.

Whatever you have done for the first 66

years, you can't do any of that.

All of that was wrong. It got you to this point.

So, you have got to spend the next 10 years doing exactly the right things or

you're going to be in a real mess.

So, I mean, you got to you got to really treat this like this is a a serious health diagnosis. We've got to get with it and you got to lean into this. Uh

because that's a that's a tough 10 years from 76 or 66 to 76.

>> Ouch.

Hey guys, if you're um

19 years old or 22 years old, that lady

calling was sent as a message to you

from God.

$100 a month

from age 25 to age 65.

$100

is 1,176,000 in your mutual fund when you're age 25.

Did you hear that it's tougher to wait

till 66 to start? 22y old. Are you

hearing me? 19-year-old, are you hearing me? 24 year old that loves to go to

happy hour, loves fine dining, and wants to lease a freaking Tesla. Are you hearing me?

This is She was sent that call, that lady calling, that sweet lady, and she's precious. Sweet lady calling was a message to you if you're in your 20s, Gen Z. She She was sent to you today,

don't you think, George? >> Yeah. Well, you know, I've actually run the numbers on this and it's fascinating to see what a dollar is worth at 20 invested versus 55 or 60. And the truth

is this. If you're 20 years old and you invest a dollar, there's a 73x return.

That dollar turns into $73 at 65. But

when you invest that same dollar at 55, it's maybe worth 4x instead of 70x.

>> Instead of $73, you got $4.

>> Exactly. That's the actual compound growth max,000.

Put 100,000 of those on it.

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So 100,000 is 7.3 million, right?

>> Yeah. >> Or 100,000 is 400,000.

>> That's the math. >> There's a difference. >> That's the wild math behind it. So if you're young, >> holy gramoly. >> So here's the message. If you're young, you're thinking, well, I'll save later.

Let me enjoy my 20s and I'll save later when I'm in my 40s, 50s, 60s. Later never comes, unfortunately, cuz life happens. Life gets in the way. When you're young, man, you got some income coming in. Put it away. You can still enjoy life, but invest some.

>> I graduated from college with a finance

degree, and no one ever showed me

>> what you just outlined. >> Just compound growth. >> The power of compound interest. Edison called it the eighth wonder of the world. The power of compound interest.

And and and and the secret to that is the earlier you start, the more you have. And and so it it's not it doesn't even require big sacrifice. It just requires intentionality. If you start earning, >> it's really not about the income or the amount you put away.

>> It's the intentionality. It's like >> because you don't need to put as much away when you're 20. >> You know, honestly, the ability to delay pleasure is one of the big psychological

insights to someone that is are indicators of someone who is emotionally mature. Emotionally m children do what

feels good. adults devise a plan and follow it. And sometimes children are 56

and sometimes they're s they're 16.

Sometimes adults are 56 and sometimes they're 16. I mean, we talked to some 19year-olds on here that are way more mature than some of the 52 year olds.

>> And way wealthier. >> Yeah. Well on their way because it's only going to take a dollar.

Goodness. A 100,000 bucks becomes 7.3 million. >> It's pretty wild. And that's a onetime dollar or monthly dollar. >> I mean, that's for every dollar you put in, you're going to get 73 out in retirement. That's the craziest part.

So, I'm telling you, if you're 20 and you're listening or 25 or even 30, you got time on your side. Compound growth is going to do the heavy lifting. And as you get older, it can't lift as much because it needs time. Time is the magic ingredient in wealth building.

>> Yeah. The shorter the time frame, the more of the money that you put in is what's going to be there. >> Contributions. >> Yeah. Your contribution is going to be equal to or more than the growth.

>> If you're 20 or 30, 90% plus is compound

growth >> of what you're going to end up with is going to be growth that you did nothing for. >> You don't need to save up a million dollars to have a million. >> Intentionality.

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Stephanie is in Omaha, Nebraska. Hi Stephanie. How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you guys? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, okay. So, I am calling today because

um I guess I have a little bit of concerns. Me and my husband have been married going on three years and we're

expecting our second child this year. Um our finances are completely separate and

u we decided this once this baby's here

that would be staying home. So, I'm just

kind of concerned since our finances have always been so separate. Uh,

obviously we have things that we need to figure out.

>> Boy, you are beating around the bush in a Nebraska kind of way. What the flip is there? What's really going on?

>> So, I am 8 years younger than my husband.

So, he has quite a bit of working years over me. And when we met, I was fairly

young. Um, I was only 18 when we first met. >> You were 18?

>> Yes. And you're how old now?

>> 26. >> Okay.

>> Yes. So, um, our financial situations

have always been a lot different obviously with his with our age gap. I mean, I've been working a full-time job since I was 14 years old. So, being in the working field is nothing new to me.

Um, although because of I guess my age

and I don't want to use my age as an excuse because there's a lot of people who make a lot of money that are my age or younger. So, um, I guess just with my

experience and what I do have to offer on the table as far as job-wise, I don't always get like high salary paying jobs.

Um, I start usually low. See, all of

that pre All of that has to do with It sounds like you think you have to earn your right to be a wife.

>> Like you're not equal if you don't make equal money.

>> Yeah. That >> when you got married, the the the vow said richer for poorer, sickness and in health.

>> Yeah. >> Your vote doesn't scale with income.

>> Yeah. I >> You should have had a vote day one regardless of your income level if he decided to do life with you. So, what was the real reason you guys never combined?

>> Um, he thinks that I'm financially irresponsible with my money.

>> There it is. >> I don't We just got to the real disagree with him. >> Yeah, >> it's like I I was always someone and

obviously this is something I'm trying to work on. Okay, just stop a second.

Okay, >> so the marriages that are successful

relationally >> and that are successful financially do not operate like yours.

>> Yeah, >> that's why you're calling. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> And um so you're not his daughter even

though he thinks because he makes more and he's older that he's going to treat you like that. And so you're in timeout.

because you didn't behave.

That is not a That's not a healthy marriage relationship.

>> That's bull crap.

>> Okay, that's from a guy that's been married 43 years. That's bull crap. All

right. So, um you you don't earn your

vote in the house, as George said, based on the income that you produce or based on your age. Neither one. You both get a

vote the day you say I do. And both votes are equal the day you say I do.

Period. >> Yes. >> Period. And this is the way marriages function that we have studied thousands

and thousands of them that become millionaires and that have high quality, high satisfaction marriages.

It's not a it's not a father-daughter relationship. No one is punitive.

We might argue, but we argue from a level playing field about what our goals

are going to be, not what I want to do versus what you want to do, >> but we argue about where we want to go.

And you guys are a long, long way from

that. And it brings me great fear

because now that you're having another child at his request, >> um now you're not going to be working at all, which means you don't even not only not have a vote, um now you have to apply for welfare with him.

>> Yeah. >> This is the way this character acts and

um he has had bad training somewhere.

Someone has told him this is the way to do it and he's wrong.

I'm not being unclear, am I?

No, you're being perfectly clear.

>> Good. Okay. >> And I I do agree with you. >> We've taken this call. So, let me show you the future. He's going to give you an allowance, quote unquote, because he's going to treat you like his daughter, and he will about how you spend it. >> Yeah. And then Yeah. And then he'll shrink it based on your behavior and how he feels about it. >> Yeah. >> While you're trying to take care of the family and the kids. >> So, no, today this ends.

>> The worm turns. Today, as Shakespeare said, the worm turned. So, uh, that's it. It's over. And we're going to sit down and honey, we're going to be on an equal playing field. We're both going to have all of our names on all the accounts. It is now our house, our income, our bed, our kids, our future,

or our is going to see a marriage counselor.

>> Yeah. >> And we're going to get some marriage help. And we probably need to do that anyway cuz at a minimum, you guys need some new tools to on how to do marriage.

Your your tool belt is really empty.

It is. >> Yeah. And so I'm not being mean, but I am the things that are going through your mind. I don't want you ever coming at this discussion again from a subpar,

substandard, I'm not as good as

position. Don't you ever use that language again in your house

because you're not subpar. You're not substandard. You're younger. You had a different career path. Whoopdeoopty.

You're his wife.

The old marriage vows in the old days out of the book of common prayer where we get richer for poor, sickness, and in health. Unto thee. Yeah. The the rest of it used to say, "Unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge."

Boy, we ought to add that one back into the marriage vow, shouldn't we? All of us. My job is now to love you so well

that you are cared for and you have a vote.

Hello. That's service. Real leadership

is service.

That's real leadership.

So I we're we're on your side. I'm not

going to I'm not angry with him, but the way he's acting is not going to prosper you. It's not going to prosper your children. It's not going to prosper him.

And it's going to create a life of resentment, bitterness, and anger. And you guys are not going to enjoy the next 10 years. And your children are not going to grow up in a good house because this is not the way people are supposed to interact, kiddo. We always say more is caught than taught. And those kids are going to see the way dad treats mom and mom gets an allowance if she's a good girl. And that's a sad way to live.

And I think for too long, Laura has believed the lies that he has told her.

>> That would be Stephanie. But yeah. >> Oh yes. Or Stephanie.

I'm sorry. And so part of this is >> Laura might too. But this one >> may as well. But you know, I think if she went to a counselor on her own, the counselor would say, "I'm seeing a pattern of gaslighting and narcissism and all these sort of trendy words." But I think there's a control mechanism here.

>> Yeah. It it's just an older guy that's used to being in control and he's just is still in control. That's all it is.

That might be overstating it. And it's not gaslighting. He didn't tell her she's crazy. He just said she was insufficient, that she was deficient.

And so he needs she needs to follow and do what he says. >> It's a control mechanism for sure. No question about that. But I don't know if we go so far as to throw trendy overused

u poorly defined words at it.

>> Uh you know, Tik Tok psychology, but yeah. >> Yeah, that's Jeez. Yeah, that's that that's the thing right there. Wow. >> It's one of our most controversial takes is that we believe couples should combine their life including their finances. I don't know why how it became so controversial.

>> You should have a joint checking account. >> It's kind of like we teach people to live on less than they make. >> Controversial. >> Controversial. >> Who are you to tell me? >> Get out of debt. Controversial.

Save money and become a millionaire.

Controversial.

>> Buy a house you can afford and don't buy one until you can. Oh, that's controversial. >> You're out of touch. >> You're out of touch, Dave. You're a boomer. You bought your house with a box of strawberries.

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Period.

Laura's in Sacramento. Hey, Laura.

What's up? >> Hi. I'm so happy to speak to two of my favorite people. Um, I've been following

you uh since 2013 and I am debtree and I

have a house in the Sacramento area. Um,

but I have since moved in the last year

uh to a very rural and remote property.

Um, and I cash flowed it and I lived for

a year in a travel trailer. Um, because I bought it, you know, for cash and also I wanted to make sure if a fire came through, I could evacuate if I had enough time with my house. Um, since living here for a year, I've found that, you know, I would like something a little more permanent. However, I also don't want to have to pay fire insurance because according to my neighbors, it's between 10 and $12,000 a year. Um, also

I get So, okay, I'll stop there and say,

um, so I'm thinking about building a mobile home, which I know mobile homes are not a good investment. However, I still own my home in Sacramento as far as an investment. I rent it out to traveling nurses, so every uh 90 days is

a turnover, and I make sure that it's in great condition. Um, so I wanted to get

your opinion. Is it still a bad idea to cash flow a mobile home to have something a little more permanent, but to save on uh it insurance basically to

not have to pay the fire insurance knowing I'm taking the risk if a fire comes through?

>> Okay. So, what would the mobile home cost? >> The mobile home is about $100,000. I say

>> so. it's worth 10 thou when it's worth 10,000 later when it goes down in value.

>> How how do we how do we put this in the smart column >> when it goes from 100 to 10,000?

>> I'm wanting to say that instead of being an investment, it is a consumable good.

It is something that I live in.

>> Yeah. But if you put the same 100,000 in a house, it would have gone up in value.

>> Yes. But I would feel much worse if a fire came through and burnt it down. And I would feel compelled to get that fire insurance. Yeah, I would too. I would too. But the thing is you're losing $90,000.

That's a lot of feelgood.

>> Yeah, it's true. >> You're saving 10 grand to lose 10 grand every year in that mobile home.

>> Oo. >> Yeah. >> So, it's I don't think it's as good a deal. >> You'll lose more than 10 the first year on the mobile home.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

So, beyond uh cost or I guess the financial component, is there anything else about mobile homes? I guess I shouldn't say that. >> No, that's it. That's the only thing. It goes down in value. If they went up in value, I'd shut up. >> Then you'd be okay with it. All right.

All right. >> But I mean, it's a car. It's a car you sleep in. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> It goes down in value. Maybe >> it's a modified it's a it's an in increased >> depreci increased in uh cost depreciating consumable item. It's a bigger version of their travel trailer that you don't want to live in anymore.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> In terms of math, that's the math on it.

That's my only problem. I mean, one of my good friends owns one of the largest companies in the world that does those things and he's like, "Dave, would you quit trashing it?" I'm, "Well, yeah, as soon as they start going up in value, I'll quit trashing it." But they're not going to go up in value. So, um, would I do that? No, I would not do that.

I would pay the fire insurance and I'd build a house. >> Okay. Yes, that was my then my second question.

>> It sounds like you do need to because you don't have the money.

>> Oh, I have I have money.

>> How much money?

>> Uh, so I currently have 130,000 in cash

to build a mobile home. But before I build it, I >> You're not building a mobile home. You're buying a mobile home. Other people build them at a factory and they send it to you. It's on wheels. Remember Exact. No, exactly. But it's also putting it on the foundation here, putting, you know, getting the water through or all that. So that's why >> Yeah. Which you're going to do with the house anyway. Yeah. >> Exactly. Exactly. It's just the the gut

of >> Yeah. What What is the house in the valley worth?

>> It's worth uh $500,000 and I own it outright. >> I would sell that and build a house for cash.

>> Oh, yeah. I just >> Let me ask you this. If you owned a house on this wonderful piece of property that you love >> and it was 100% paid for and it was worth $600,000 >> and you did not own a rental property with nurses in it, >> would you would you borrow on your paid for home to go buy a rental property?

>> Oh, no. No. >> It's the same thing.

>> Wouldn't borrow either way. It's >> It's the same thing when you don't sell the rental property and end up borrowing to build the house. It's the same thing.

>> Yeah. If I build a house, I would need to save longer before building the house. I wouldn't sell, you know, I would stay in a travel trailer longer until I have the money to build the house outright or I would do it. I would cash flow it. You would >> I wouldn't, but I wouldn't have been in the travel trailer in the first place cuz I'm a snob. So, yeah. I mean, for

the weekend maybe, but after that, I' I'm done. >> If you're camping, I might see Dave in there. >> And you know, if you did see me in there, I would be without Sharon. That'd be the other thing. So, >> Sharon's not stepping foot in that. She will not darken the door of that. He's like, "Good luck with that theory, bub." Yeah, >> she's more of a glamper.

>> Especially these days. Okay. So, >> but yeah, owning a home is a long-term decision. So, you want to think long term 10 years from now, was this a good idea? >> Yeah. >> And that's the problem with >> people get, you know, because they're,

you know, what almost always, and in her case it is, too, what almost always drives the mobile home decision is, I don't have the money. >> Mhm. >> And so, I'm going to cheap out. and you can cheap out and for 100 grand you can buy something you can sleep in and um and they're fairly nice at 100 grand.

I mean it's a pretty nice one, you know, it's not a bad one. They make them up to 300 or 400 or whatever, but um I mean 100 grand's no that's a pretty nice place. But you're right.

And then people also get confused and rationalized with, oh well the property went up in value. Yeah, but it was going to go up in value whether it had a house on it or whether it had a mobile home on it. And don't just because it don't don't confuse that with a mobile home went down in value. It still went down in value. Like 100% of things with cars

with with wheels and or motors, if it

has a motor, it has wheels, it's going to go down in value.

Period.

Your little John Deere tractor that you paid $8,000 to mow your quarter acre lot with and you financed with John Deere finance

is going to go down in value. Your seed is going to go down in value. Your Mastercraft, I got two of them. They're going to go down in value. The world's best skiboat, thank you very much. It goes down in value. They're fabulous.

They go down in value.

That collectible Corvette I have in my basement is going down in value. And it's a collectible.

They any And George, your battery with wheels, your Tesla is going down in value. >> We I know that the hard way. I'm trying to sell it right now. Nobody wants it, Dave. >> You can't give that thing. Nobody wants a battery. >> Nobody's in the market for like an iPhone 4. You know that they want the latest and greatest. You're buying technology here.

>> But it's true. It's why we say pay cash.

>> Age. Well, >> if you're going to buy a depreciating asset, always pay cash.

>> And honestly, you get you feel like right now you're trying to get rid of that car and nobody's you can't get rid of it. That's one bad feeling. It would be triple bad if you had financed that >> if I was underwater on it >> and you're sitting there paying payments and you can't give it away.

>> Now you got like Now you got lots of pissed off. Now you're just moderately aggravated. >> Yeah. Just a light stupid tax on something I enjoyed. >> Yeah. And and well the the other problem with it is you know I'm going to make fun of you. So that's the other problem.

>> So >> I almost thought you might want to buy it just to troll me with it. But I figure you're not going to put money into that. >> Could we like put it in the front yard and plant flowers? That's what I was thinking.

I thought you were going to like, you know, take, you know, take it to the farm, take it out back. >> Oh, we could shoot it >> and just destroy it. >> We could take the Barrett 50 cow and shoot it. >> It's cheaper than some of these fancy hunting trips that you go on.

So, I figure >> it would be fun.

>> We can make a video out of it. Let's charge it to the company. >> You know what, Dave? I like the way you're thinking. You You run the thing. So, >> we'll get the We'll get the uh Instagram team out there. >> Hey, team, clip this out. I want to be able to use this in a court of law.

Yeah. >> When I make Dave buy. >> It's not It's not happening. But it's just it was a good it was you had a moment there. >> I uh that was close. >> It was close. >> Oh man. Whether it's a Tesla or mobile home, it's going down in value.

>> Elon Musk would be so pissed if we took that thing out to the farm and just blew the hell out of >> I think he's got a sense of humor. He might enjoy it.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Frank is

with us in Asheville, North Carolina.

Hi, Frank. How are you?

>> I'm doing pretty well, Dave. How are you doing? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, um throughout the the marriage with my wife in the last three and a half years, um we have been using our

one credit card for covering some of the four walls like groceries and transportation, but we've been covering um mortgage and utilities with our

checking account. And um and we also use

the credit card for like health insurance premium and medical expenses

and even some other life in expenses.

So we pay it off every month and it feels like we give ourselves some room uh before we pay off the credit card um

each month but you know then using our savings as quickly. So, I guess one of my thoughts are or one of my questions is what are your thoughts on using the credit card for some of the four walls, even if it's not the long-term solution.

>> Yeah. Well, you you've obviously not listened to the show much, right?

>> Uh, we've listened a lot, but I guess one of the reasons that we're holding on to the credit card is, you know, some of the >> I mean, you understand that your question is completely perpendicular to everything we teach for the last 30 years, right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. So, I just want I mean I'm trying to understand if you understand what you're walking into.

>> Mhm. >> It's a warning. >> I'm I'm asking I mean I'm being I'm not trying I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm just saying so the answer to your question is that's dumber than crud.

Okay. Now, why is it dumb? All right.

Several reasons. Number one is there's not a singular piece of wealth building research that indicates that what you're doing causes you to build wealth. Mhm.

>> Not a single instance. We studied 10,167

millionaires. The number of them that do the what you're doing is precisely zero.

Rich people don't do what you're doing.

Broke people do.

Okay. So, that that's a bad sign. Now,

is it going to cause you to go bankrupt?

Probably not. But the problem is is that you actually have somehow used your decision-making framework around money to convince yourself that this is a good idea and that that this is somehow going

to get you ahead more than simply investing.

Investing is where money comes from.

Living on less than you make is where money comes from. Not from trying to trick City Bank.

And and so the number of millionaires that became millionaires by adding up all their airline miles is precisely zero. None of them. Not one. Broke

people chase airline miles.

78% of the airline miles are never redeemed.

And yet people spend a lot of brain calories chasing this bull crap that these ripoff

huge banks are screwing America with.

and then convinced you that it's a good idea to dance to their tune.

I mean that now are you losing money when you pay a health insurance bill that is a health insurance bill whether you pay it with cash it's exact same amount can't possibly change. No, you're not losing money doing that. Are you losing money when you buy when you pay a

uh an electric bill that is going to be the same amount whether you pay it with a card or whether you pay it with cash?

it. You're not losing a dime. When you go and you're you're buying your groceries, you're spending more.

The best merchandisers on the planet are grocery stores. When you walk through a grocery store, you are walking through a scientific lab that is very carefully

designed what is on what shelf, at what level, and what color more than any

other type of physical product on the planet. Grocery stores are brilliant

merchandisers. The chances that you walk out of there spending more than you meant to, regardless of what methodology you use, are very high cuz they're very,

very good at it. And it started back in

the 1950s with a simple thing of they put the necessities at the back of the store, the bread, the milk, and the eggs because so you had to walk through the rest of the store and impulse on the candy. And Wrigley's became multi-bazillionaires.

The Wrigley family have a fabulous mansion in Phoenix. Fabulous. By putting

sticks of gum wear at the checkout, the impulse proper. So, this is these are just the beginnings of the sophistication that I'm talking about.

So, 100% chance you spend more in a grocery store than you meant to. And when you put it on a credit card, all the data, all the research says that you are spending somewhere between 12 and 18% more than you would have spent if you spent cash because cash activates the pain centers of the brain. And credit cards don't.

When you lay down a $100 bill in the grocery store and Uncle Ben looks at you and says, "What are you doing?"

What are you doing? When you lay down a credit card, City Bank says, "Thank you.

What's in your wallet?" Samuel L. Jackson, my money is in your wallet. Not my money, but his money is in your wallet to pay for them stinking commercials that you did. That's what's in your wallet. We know what's in your wallet. a lot of City Bank's money.

>> Here's the fun math on this. Let's say you put $60,000 of your take-home pay on

that credit card to cover these bills and you got 2% cash back. 1 $1,200 bucks is what you got, right? For the year.

>> I'm exhausted for 1,200 bucks >> for the year. So, here's what I want to challenge Frank with. Frank, if no one has taken me up on this challenge, for one year, switch to on a budget using debit card and cash and see if you don't spend less than that 1,200 bucks a year, which then negates all the rewards you got. And my guess is you're going to find that you spent thousands less by using your own money, leaving your bank account now versus using someone else's money that you can pay back later.

>> 100% chance. >> Take me up on it. >> Yeah, you're stepping over stepping over dollars to pick up nickels. stepping off dollars to pick up pennies.

Yeah. And and so here and and so no, Frank, I would not do what you're doing. That that's the reason. The biggest reason though is not the $1,200.

The biggest reason is is while you were focusing on the $1,200. You were missing

the real way to build wealth because you had your eye on the wrong thing and you

were thinking this method works.

>> It's a distraction. >> I tell it's the exact same. Here's it's the same problem I got with Acorn. with Acorns that app. Yeah. Yeah. Where you put pennies, you know, you round everything up, your >> spare change can go. >> Put your spare change in there. And and people are screwing around with that with with 14 cents while they should

have been putting 350 bucks in their 401k. And they use the same brain calories to chase down the 14 cents that they would have done to set their 401k up and retire a multi-millionaire. So >> in their mind, they've checked the box that I am investing. If I ask them, are you investing? scratch the edge and you think it's okay. You're not investing.

You're a child with a piggy bank. That's not investing.

>> Children with piggy banks have $14 when they're four years old. And that's what you're going to have in your freaking Acorns app. It's the same thing. There's nothing evil about it. They're not ripping people off, but they took your eye off the ball and you're you're focusing your decision-making paradigm and framework around the wrong things.

And so that's the problem. And 100% of

the time the city bank tells you to do something. It's something you should not do. >> It is in their best interest.

>> It's not for you. It's for Samuel L. Jackson. They got to pay him. He's expensive. >> Jennifer Garner is not cheap.

>> 100% chance that Patrick Mahomes cost

State Farm a bunch of money. Who you think paid for that?

Oh, you people that buy from State Farm?

She have if you not priced your dad gum

homeowners insurance, you can beat it with almost anybody if you got State Farm cuz you got I don't have to pay Patrick Mah homes.

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Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

We're glad you're here. Ashley is in Bend, Oregon. Hi, Ashley. How are you?

>> Hi, I'm good. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Um, so um, my husband and I have given been given kind of a once in a-lifetime opportunity. We have a family friend that is fairly wellto-do. Um her and her

husband own about five homes throughout the state. Um one of which is far over

in eastern Oregon and they are getting older and have offered for us to

basically at a zero a month lease this

property from them um to allow us to

essentially build my horse training business and kind of start a ranching dream that we've had. Um we our hiccup

is we both have extremely good jobs where we're at. Um all of our family is here so on so forth and it's just a big

leap. So we're not sure if we should do it. >> What are your what do you guys make at your extremely good jobs?

>> Um so we both are in the construction industry. He makes about 110,000 a year.

I make 75 and then I train horses on the

side and make about 50,000 from that.

Mhm. But of course, you would lose all of that clientele because you're moving far away. >> Um, not necessarily. So, my business is based on developing young horses and then selling them.

So, I don't necessarily have like a monthly clientele, per se. It's more of >> Oh, so where you train the horses that you sell doesn't matter. >> So, you wouldn't you wouldn't lose the 50. >> Correct.

And I mean, the idea would be to substantially grow that. No, >> I understand. But, I mean, you would not lose the 50.

>> Yes, sir. >> If everything Well, unless something really bad goes wrong. Okay.

>> Correct. >> And um >> so uh how rural is this area? Why can your husband not work?

>> So he can um and that would be the idea

over there. The town is about 140 people. So it's very rural. Um I guess

it just wouldn't be what he sits at now.

From what we've researched, probably about 70 or 80,000 is what he would make a year. Um, that being said, >> out of 140 people,

>> um, the county has has some like management positions that are opening that I think he would be a very big benefit to them. He's a foreman for a construction company now.

So, um, I think he probably he has some skills that would definitely

be of interest to them. I would say um I

am 30 and he is 31.

>> How far away is this place from where you are now? >> About 5 hours.

>> How many kids do you have?

>> None. >> Okay.

All right. And so we would be moving from 110 on him down to 70. And we'd be

moving your income that you're losing is you're keeping the 50 on the horse. What's the income you're losing?

>> Um about 70 I have. So, it's $110,

$120,000 shift initially, assuming you don't

assuming you don't. That's if he gets a $70,000 job and you can retain your 50 on the horses without any without any increase. Yeah, I got you.

>> And I have thought about grabbing something remote while I build the horse thing up more and more. Um, maybe getting something part-time to remote to kind of help that gap be smaller.

>> Yeah. Or like full-time. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Or full-time. And these people will let you use this land and house for free is what you're saying.

>> Yeah. So, they don't get over there very much and it's obviously hard to maintain a property that's also 5 hours away from them. Um, they've just held on to it because they like visiting there twice a year essentially. >> Do you own a home? >> Um, yes sir, we do.

We have um right at about $100,000 in equity in that and I do currently run

the horse business out of that. Like it's not something that I have to move to do that. I I run it out of my house now. >> Um this is just I mean it's 1500 acres

and >> but it's not yours. It's not going to be yours. >> Correct. >> Correct. Yes. >> That's my fear is long term. You don't own this and it could shift hands. So, so 10 years from now, from now, what does winning look like? You don't own any real estate. He's still working a county job and you've grown a horse business.

>> Yes. >> That's what winning looks like 10 years from now. >> I think the idea would be potentially to

grow the business and I guess buy a place of our own. The expenses there

would be essentially next to nothing.

Um, you know, I guess it would just be utilities. Um, and the money. >> So, what's the mortgage on your house today? The MAP balance, >> um, 410.

>> Okay. And so, if you took a hundred and went and bought a $500,000 ranch in some area that sounded like this, you could keep about the same mortgage amount and be on a ranch.

>> Yeah. >> And do this deal. And do this deal, but own it.

>> Yeah. And that's I mean like that's kind of been our plan was to just stay where we are and you know obviously work to make that dream come true. They have just offered this to us and um

>> yeah I'm not I'm not I'm just not sure it's a blessing. I was trying to figure out if it is >> it lowers your expenses but it moves you away from ownership long term.

>> Yeah. And you're you're um >> and it also >> and you know everything's dependent upon how long will they how long a lease will they give you for a dollar a year? Um,

she basically has told us infinite. Um, I bull crap.

>> She she went as far as telling me that she will put it in her will that the kids cannot sell the home until we decide we're done with the property.

>> Do you understand? That's weird.

>> It is very weird. Um, and

>> so strange I'm now spooked.

>> Yeah, this is weird >> that they wouldn't give it to their kids. >> Yeah. as long as you guys are alive.

Essentially, our friend that raises horses gets priority over our entire family with our 1500 acres. Nah,

>> I think where she comes from is at is her kids are very well to do and they're >> I know, but I my kids are well to do, but I'm not doing that for you.

>> Okay, >> Dave's not giving me his weird can't live there for free. I don't care, George. Shut up. >> But I love horses, Dave.

>> I know. Well, you're known for your horse love. >> I'm just glad I met someone who's in the business of selling horses. makes me feel better. >> Oh, wow. Yeah, your her job is to do what you tell people to do. Who knew?

>> Made a career out of it. >> Um, okay. I um

I don't know. I I it I I got to admit the uh the romance of it I've kind of caught on to. Okay.

>> Cuz 1500 acres um you know, are we all

Yellowstone junkies? Is that our problem? Um but yeah uh anyway the um

>> and it's like it's not very >> I don't like the business aspect of it.

>> Okay. >> The only way I would tell you to do this is if you pledge to yourself at the end of 5 years that you have your own place

or you leave. Period.

>> Okay. >> We're not going to stay here longer than 5 years. >> Okay. >> Would they sell it to you?

>> Yeah. But the >> Yeah, but they can't afford it >> to I mean, she put it at 2.8 million.

>> Perfect. >> Yeah. >> Okay. And and so number one, I would put a time limit on it. Um and you can

return to construction and you can return to the life you have now fairly easily, plus or minus your current job.

Okay. >> Yeah. And I I was >> if this thing all blows up and and isn't fun and you hate living out in the middle of nowhere after all. I took a call from a lady yesterday who said, "We bought our f we bought our dream home with a bunch of acreage and we hate it.

What do we do now?" And I'm like, "Well, you sell it and you move back to the cityun." And so, um, you know, the uh green

acres, but the uh um Yeah. Wow. Anyway,

the the other thing that's bothering me,

I'm just going to get it all out. Okay.

Cuz you called and asked and I really like talking to you. Thank you. Because you you really have a level head for somebody doing a whole thing on based on romance >> and and that this is a very romantic story. It's a very cool >> very cool story. I mean the the people that are infinitely generous that are infinitely wealthy and their children don't even care. I mean this is strange.

And so um >> that's sweet but it's weird. And so um

>> yeah I'd put a five-year limit on it.

Number one. Number two, I want you and your husband to do some prayerful soulsearching because this entire adventure

is based on your desire to run a horse business.

Nothing else. That's 100% the driver of

this. And is that really what you want to be the driver of your whole life? Cuz nothing else. We're doing everything else in this story to serve that one

thing. And that's bothersome.

You know, when I became a dad, something flipped. Suddenly, it wasn't just about me and my wife anymore. It was what happens to my family if I'm not here tomorrow. And things like that just hit different when you become a parent.

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We'll give you some help. Emily's in Chicago. Hi, Emily. What's up?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help? Um well um I'm 55

years old and I've got four grown children. Um when my husband my first

husband passed away nine years ago and left me with some life insurance money, I had a revocable living trust created with my four children as a beneficiary.

Um my house is fully paid for and it's titled to the trust.

So, I got remarried four years ago to a

wonderful man. Um, and he moved into this house with me and he of course

helps with some living expenses and upkeep here and everything. And the house is rising in value. So, my question is, how much equity should I

give my second husband in this house? It

was fully paid for before we got married. But I am fair to both him and

the kids. >> Well, the only way you could is if you restructure the trust. Right.

>> Right. Which I am about to do. Actually, I have an appointment here in about 3 weeks. >> So, restructure you're have that appointment. Why?

>> Um, well, I was already going to make some amendments now that my kids are no longer minors. So, while I'm doing that,

I thought I would amend the trust in

some way so that if something happens to me, >> what is the size of your estate?

>> Um, my house now is worth about 500,000.

I do have um I don't have any debt. Um,

I do have some retirement investments and some savings in an accessible

um, investment account. I've always lived on a zerobased budget and I think grand total mine would be about 1.2 million actually. >> And what have you done with all of that in regards to your current husband?

>> Um, nothing yet. All of that is has all

been in a um in in the trust that I had

before. >> So everything you have was put into this trust. >> Yeah, it feel like it were before I met him. >> Why? Um why was it put in a trust?

>> Um when my first husband died, my

financial advisor just said, "This is what you need to do." And he just did all those things for me. So you don't even know why.

Not exactly. A will except for to I guess if something were to happen to me

the only take care of it. A will would take care of it. You don't have to operate everything else. >> You designate a beneficiary on these accounts and you don't need to put it in the trust. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I already do have the trust

>> and I'm not sure you need it.

>> Oh, okay. Um Well, how much >> you might, but I'm not sure you need it. And and I don't like that you don't even know why it's there.

And yet, and yet this trust is running around. We're doing all this stuff to we're serving a trust that we don't know why it exists. Because I don't know why it exists. I'm not sure why you need one. You don't need one for estate tax planning. You don't have an estate tax problem. I'm sure of that. Um, if you

were trying to protect it from something, then you could use a trust for that. But I don't know who we're protecting it from.

>> Um, >> kind of them. Um, I want to make sure that I want to make sure that >> Well, if you leave the house, if you have if if you're a widowed lady and you have a house and you say in your will the house goes to my four kids, 100% of the time it goes to your four kids.

>> You don't need a trust to do that.

>> Should I though give some of that to my husband since he my second husband? >> Well, that's a separate discussion.

First thing I'm talking about is the structure of your finances. Okay? And the structure of your finances, I don't know why you're doing this. So, I want you to get some estate planning advice.

And if you're going to keep the trust, I want you to have a real good reason why

you have it and why you're keeping it. I don't know why your million three is in a trust. Mine's not.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> And I'm I'm your age and I've got more >> and it's not in a trust. Okay.

I've got some things in a trust, but there that's an estate planning mechanism because my my net worth is in excess of the $25 million exemption. So, I've got some of those issues, but you don't have those issues. I'm not picking on you. I'm just saying there's a reason for a trust and there's a re sometimes the only reason people have a trust is what I'm getting at is because some attorney sold them one, not because they needed one.

So, I want you to get into this and figure that out. Now, having said that, let's go back to your question.

value of the property upon you being deceased, the current value, the first 500 goes to your children as promised and half of any increase goes to your

children as promised. The other half of

any increase would go to your husband.

>> That is what I was thinking. It was worth 340 when we got married four years ago. So >> I don't know that you have to back date it, but if you want to, you could.

>> Okay. And then 50% of the increase after

that would be >> Yeah. Split the increase between your kids and your husband. If that's that's an equitable way to do it.

>> Okay. Yeah. The reason I wanted to ask is he feels like I should just give him 50% total.

>> No. >> Well, he wasn't there for the first 50%.

The first 50% came before he showed up.

What? Why does he think he needs that?

>> Right. Okay. >> Why? Where'd he get that logic?

>> Um, >> he thinks he's that pretty.

No, I think he has he's listening to a few of your segments where you were speaking to somebody in a different situation who

um property taxes on a house that he

with a totally different situation and he kind of I feel like is kind of misapplying it to ours.

>> No, I I I wouldn't have said that in your situation. I I mean there's not a situation like yours that I would have answered this anyway other than this way. And I'm not even sure he needs half of that. But if you want to give him half of the increase from the time you got married on the or or from today on

that that seems fair if he's putting money into the property and he's from he's going to pay at least half of the I mean you all are have a combined account now and your combined account is paying the property taxes and the insurance and the maintenance then yeah he could participate that way. That's that's okay. That's fair.

But I don't know why he would be due anything from before the marriage. that that's not logical to me. But I really do want to go back to the other thing and say uh investigate why you ended up

with a trust. All right. Now, the reason

I'm kind of going off on this, everybody, sidebar, there's a whole segment of people in the insurance world

and in the legal world that sell people

a $1,500 trust as if it's some kind of

freaking magic wand uh for an estate planning tool that they don't need. and they're a pain in the butt to operate.

So when you're every time you want to sell the house, every time you want to do an investment, anything you want to do, it's all in the name of the stupid trust. And so I've got a couple of things in a trust, but they're not used that way. And they people sell it to avoid probate tax, which is local estate

tax, and it's usually not that much. And as a matter of fact, it usually doesn't even cost as much as the trust >> because the trust is a couple grand.

Yeah. Typically, two to five grand depending on who draws it up and what it's for. Now, if there's a a combative adversarial family situation of some kind and you're trying to lock down your intentions for the ownership for a particular thing in in in perpetuity, a

trust is a way to pull that off. Okay?

And and then in that case, but normally a will will suffice for 98% of situations. And you don't just run over and get a trust. And what I've got here is a lady whose husband had passed away.

She had a big insurance check and she went to a lawyer and what'd she end up with? A trust. So, I don't I'm I'm suspicious that she didn't need one.

>> Well, I get a lot of these videos sent to me from our fans and it's always someone who has a vested interest in you getting a trust, which is why they're like, "Oh, if you have a will, you got to get a trust as soon as possible." And it's as if it's some magic trick.

>> Just scroll down to getmytrust.com.

Yeah, >> exactly. And it's usually an estate attorney trying to get some clicks and views for their business. >> Hello. Hello. Here's the advantages of a trust. No one talks about the disadvantages. Here's an interesting thing. Unless you retitle everything, including your mutual fund state, your mutual fund account, your real estate, everything, you have to go retitle it.

Your car, whatever, it's not in the trust until you retitle it.

>> People buy these trusts and then don't retitle the stuff. So, the trust is sitting there with nothing in it.

James is in Baltimore. Hey, James.

What's up?

>> Hey, how's it going? Uh, thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. How can we help?

Um, so my wife and I just recently quit

our high-paying jobs to have her stay

home with the kids and for me to live

out an early semi-retirement, I guess.

Uh, just working part-time. How dumb are we?

>> Uh, I don't know. I mean, how what's

wrong with it? What What'd you do that was dumb? >> It sounds like you think if you was dumb if you're asking us. What's the regret here? I mean, I'm having some second thoughts, but I don't know how much of that is outside influence from my parents and my in-laws who are pretty risk adverse. Oh, >> okay. >> Um, and how much of it were you making

about it?

>> Uh, in total we were >> What were you making?

>> Uh, I was making about 300. Just shy.

>> Doing what?

>> Uh, it cyber security.

>> Okay. And and why were you $300,000

pissed off about it to where you didn't want to do it anymore?

>> Well, I just been working for 20 years in the industry. I'm 40 now and uh

just thought that it would be a good time to refocus my energy on the family rather than work.

>> Okay. And so how much have you got in your nest egg? What are you living off of?

Um, so we sold our house and um, so

we've got about a million just just over a million in cash, 785 in 401k,

550 in a brokerage,

176 in a paid for rental, and maybe 40

grand in miscellaneous. So about 2.5 and change. Mhm.

>> And you guys are renting now?

>> Uh, yeah. We actually moved to Greece.

>> Oh, wow. >> So, we're back home visiting right now, but we moved to Greece. >> What are you doing in Greece?

>> Working remote IT cyber security, but for myself part time.

>> Oh, okay. And how much do you make doing that?

>> Uh, just shy of 180 190 it's looking

like. Well, >> that doesn't sound like you quit.

Well, I'm working 20 hours. I know the >> compared to what you were working, you quit. But I mean, you you know, this is not a guy who's sitting on your douff 40

your entire week. You're working a little bit, make 180. You used to make 300. It's a 120 cut. What was your wife making before she quit?

>> Uh, right around 300.

>> Okay. And what was she doing?

>> Uh, marketing. Digital marketing.

>> And And she took hers all the way to zero.

She has one client. Uh but it is

basically nothing at this point.

>> No money.

>> Uh not much. Um she working for her

>> and uh I don't I don't remember off the

top of my head, but it's um >> Okay. So, let's just round up and say you guys are making over $200,000 a year. You live in Greece >> and you sold everything.

>> Everything. Yeah. Car. different than I retired.

>> That's not your your initial story is not true. I retired. I quit. I do

nothing. I play with babies and change diapers and my wife plays with babies and change diapers. We do nothing. We quit everything. We're off the grid.

That's how you started. And you're that's just not the accurate facts.

>> You've got two and a half$3 million and you make $200,000 a year. you took a pay cut to have an adventure in Greece and and kind of scale back a little bit.

>> Yeah, I guess that's why I'm I'm thinking of it as semi-retirement because I'm working eastern hours and I'm able to work from Greece. I'm effectively not working during the day.

I work evenings, >> work whenever you want and however much you need to to get the job done at 180 >> and and you're keeping your skills sharp in probably one of the hottest fields in the world right now, cyber security. And as long as you keep your skills sharp, you can jump in and out of that world and at random and make money. Agreed.

>> Yeah. I guess like plug in my income and

my more importantly my you know savings and investments into various calculations. >> Okay. So let me let me put it this way.

It sounds to me like you guys were driving. Have you ever driven a car at 150 mph >> in excess? Yes. >> Yeah. Me too. The white lines are coming at you pretty fast. You you remember what happened when you slowed down to 50

>> before >> like you could walk in out and walk.

>> Yeah. You felt like like you uh went from, >> you know, whatever to riding a turtle. I mean, it was just like cuz your brain had adjusted to that speed. And when you dropped down to 50, it felt like you stopped, >> right? >> That's what you did >> 100%. >> You two were $600,000 a year. high

potential, high capacity people. You

were working 60, 80 hours a week. You were straining your brain. You were straining your emotions. You were straining your physical body with the hours. And you went from 180 or went from 600 miles an hour to 200 miles an hour. It feels like you stopped.

>> Right. Exactly. >> But you really didn't.

>> Yeah. >> You're now just driving like most people.

>> No, I know. And it just feels like I worked 20 years to get where I'm at and I was kind of on the threshold of getting to the next level. And >> what's the next level? >> I I uh SVP the title.

>> Yeah. Do you want that? I mean, be careful about climbing that ladder of success. You want to be sure which building it's leaning on.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. You looked up and said the destination ain't worth it. The G juice ain't worth the squeeze.

I think I'm feeling pretty good and I can have a really good life. I suspect you'll go through about four or five years of what you're doing now.

>> Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

>> I think you're good. >> What's your burn rate right now? How much are you guys spending in in a year?

>> Uh it's like right around 6,000. Um

that's living really comfortably there >> a month. >> So um >> six grand a month >> feel like um 72 a year >> net. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're making well in excess of that working 20 hours a week.

>> James I want the nar see the narrative that you are shiftless do nothing retired early

and have no work ethic that is being shamed and delivered to you somewhere is actually not accurate of who you are. If

you were that, I would tell you, >> okay, >> I would say, you know, get off your butt, you loser. I would tell you, okay, but you're really not. I mean, you're you're you're making substantial money because you've you've honed sharp tools.

You have sharp tools in your belt and you're a craftsman and you're able to apply those because of your years of experience and your connections and make an inordinate amount of money for a small amount of hours. And for right now, that's an adventure and a chance to slow down and get your breath. You guys have been running so stinking hard for so long. You just went from 180 to 55.

That's all you did. But you're not shiftless or lazy. And I don't think you're going to do this exactly this way for the rest of your life. I don't think you're done. I think this is a sbatical.

>> Yeah. This adventure could go, "Yeah, it's getting old. We want to go back to the States 40 years from now." And you can do that. And you'll go pick up a job if you so choose or do your own thing.

>> You may move to Switzerland. I don't know. >> The numbers are irrelevant. You guys are doing great financially. It's not dumb financially, but if you're the parents, you're going, I can't believe they went from 600 to 200 on paper.

>> Jobs. He lost. My son-in-law quit his job. >> So impulsive.

>> But you know, they don't have a vote. If you guys are enjoying your life, you're making your bills. >> You know, it's funny. I've told this story a thousand times, but I'm going to tell it one more time. So, uh, my grandfather worked for Alco Aluminum for 38 years every single week.

And when he retired, he was head cost accountant. He's a wonderful man. One of my favorite people on the planet, but steady, stable, secure, risk averse. >> Yeah. So, my grandmother's a second grade school teacher. So, I printed the first book, Financial Peace. I was selling out of the trunk of my car, sold it to a publisher. I got an email

and it said, "Congratulations, you just sold your millionth copy." Wow. And the

phone rang and it was my grandmother.

And she said, "I was worried about you.

When are you going to get a real job?

>> Oh man, that's funny.

>> So, and she's sweet. I mean, she really was. It's so sweet. She was so worried about me. >> That's passive aggressive grandma behavior. >> No, no. I mean, she just The point was it's just not her world. It's not her paradigm. She didn't understand it. >> And she didn't have the viewpoint to go a million copies. I think we're okay.

>> I actually do have a job, hun. And we're okay. I'm still doing it today, by the way. Yeah. all these 30 years later.

>> Well, she'd probably think remote work is just unemployment with a different title. >> Well, it is

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Sammy is

in Chicago. Hi Sammy. How are you?

>> Hey, good. How are you today?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, uh me and my wife got on your program about uh 7 months ago. We've shut down all of our credit cards. Um we have about $50,000 worth of debt left.

How much have you paid off in seven months?

>> Um, right under about 6,000,000

>> a month. Okay.

>> Yep. >> What's your household? What's your household income?

>> 150. >> Well, so far you suck at this.

>> I apprec uh Yeah, >> you're making progress, but a thousand a month's kind of weak.

>> Our kids go to private school, which uh is a big uh is a big expense.

Um, but my question was, is it a bad

idea to take out a heliloc to consolidate it? I'm sitting on about $250,000 worth of equity in my house and

kind of just get it all in one place and

um push it up to 1,200 a month and kind

of clear that out in four or five years.

>> Yeah, that's a bad idea

cuz you should turn up the heat. You should turn up the heat on your budget.

turn down the heat on your lifestyle.

You guys have you you've begun the process and you've taken the first level of sacrificing, which is a great progress. I p I picked on you pretty hard, but I mean you really you cut up your credit cards and you paid off $6,000 and that's more than you've done in 10 years. So, you've come a long way.

I mean, you're going in the right direction finally. Congratulations on that and that's good. But what I want you to do instead is pay three $4,000 a month and just get rid of this in a year. But that means you're going to have to cut a whole bunch of stuff out of your life for a year.

And I don't know exactly what it is. And it's not the kids' private schools because that's not the real problem.

>> Ding ding ding. >> I hear that.

>> Yep. Yeah. The vacation. Yes. But yeah.

Okay. >> And you you know I mean you're paying you add all of that up and you take the budget and you and your wife go kids in private schools is a non-negotiable. But all this other crap, we can cut it out for one year and hold our breath and be done with this. Or we can keep this stupid thing around as a helock like it's a pet. No, I want to kill it.

And here's what'll happen. Here's what'll happen. Here's the cool thing.

>> In the process of doing that, Sammy, you and your wife will permanently change how you handle money. You won't have to stay permanently sacrificed at that, but you will never be inattentive again. You

will pay attention for the rest of your life because of this one time because of the strain it does to your brain when you've gone on this much sacrifice.

George, >> yeah, using the house as a piggy bank and moving the unsecured debt to a secure debt, it's not changing any of the behavior that got you guys here. And that's why we're telling you, don't do this. It's just moving the debt around.

And you guys are the solution. This great income you have, we just got to put it to work. I I don't want you to be 10 years from now and only still finding $1,000 because you make too much money to be as broke as you are. I want you to be rich and be I want you to live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else.

And so that that involves turning up the heat for a short period of time, cleansing the whole thing, cleaning the whole thing off, and then going from there.

Um, make sure you're not getting a tax return. You and your wife are together.

We're not going to see the inside of a restaurant until we get this done. We're not going on vacation until we get this done. We're going to sell so much stuff that's junk around this house that the kids think they're next. We're going to bust it.

And when you and we're going to have a tight budget and we're going to have a detailed budget and the two of us are going to agree on that budget and we're going to make a game out of this for the whole family and we're going to clean up this mess and cut up these credit cards, which you already did. Way to go.

have to modify behaviors to win.

It's only 20% head knowledge. The the head knowledge, the intellect needed to

um the intellectual knowledge base needed to become a millionaire, you learn by the sixth grade.

It's just not that hard. The hard thing is the guy in my mirror. The guy in my

mirror. Or if I can get that guy to behave, he could be skinny and rich, but

he's got issues, you know, and I like

donuts, that's a problem. >> This is getting personal, Dave. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I just My name is Dave and I like donuts.

Yeah, this is my personal AA meeting. But yeah, that's it, man. That's how it works, Sammy. It's We all face this stuff is the point.

And the more I can get you to lean into it and burn with it a little bit, the more permanent the change becomes in your household. And then that is the biggest indicator of whether you're going to become wealthy, not whether we save a few interest rate points on a heliloc.

Thank you for calling in with it.

Jonathan is in Miami. Jonathan, what's up in your world?

>> Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me, man.

How are you? >> Sure. Better than I deserve. How are you?

>> I'm well. I uh I've been following you and I have a question. This is mortgage related and let me give you a little background. I'm 44 years old. I have four beautiful kids. I am the uh sole

earner in my home, right? I'm the head of household. My wife is a stay-at-home wife. We have no debt. Um I bring in approximately 200,000 uh year.

>> Way to go. >> And I have extremely poor financial

discipline when it comes to investing or any of that stuff. No one has ever taught me. And I've always been fearful of losing my money. Therefore, I do the dumbest thing possible, which I keep it all in checking. Um, >> how much is in checking?

>> Uh, about 1.4 >> million. >> Um, >> correct. >> Uh, wow. >> Wait, don't don't wait. Don't chew.

Don't chew me out.

>> That's just fabulous. You've got a million dollars in checking.

I love it.

>> Oh, you're going to be so easy to help.

>> Well, I'll I'll tell you what my problem is. >> Okay. I um because I don't have that financial discipline and fear of losing money and I like having it under my pillow per se, you know, you know what I mean? Having it in your checking account, >> you know where it is. You can get it whenever you want. And >> I've been stacking. Now, the only debt I have is this house mortgage. So, I purchased a home in 2020. I have about

$400,000 outstanding on it and I am

fighting myself whether I should pay it off in full or whether I should I don't

know do something else perhaps. Everyone is telling me that I've spoken to invested invested invested. I have no idea what I'm doing. Every person I talk to and you're wise not to invest it until you get comfortable.

>> You should not do it because someone else said do it or because Dave said do it. >> But let's just start with the basics here. Okay. 1.4 for in checking, right?

How long has that been there?

>> I've been saving for nine years now. So, it's been >> Let me just play a game. Let's pretend a million dollars has been there for the last four years. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Just for the fun of it. Now, I want you to go learn about investing and get comfortable with it. And I'm going to help you do that because you've done the right thing. Don't put money in something you don't understand. So, so far you've done the right thing. But by not understanding investing, had you invested in a basic mutual fund that only returned exactly what the market has returned, you missed out on three of the best years ever, your money would

have doubled in the last three years.

>> Wow. That's cost you a million dollars, that lack of knowledge. So, I want you to go get the knowledge, okay? And I want you to go to a smart vest pro at Ramsay Solutions and go sit down with them and begin the process of learning and tell them you have a million dollars to invest because yesterday you paid off your house with 400,000 out of checking.

And by the way, you don't need discipline to pay off your house. It actually adds to discipline cuz it's very hard to get the money out of your house.

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might not be in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Cameron in Wisconsin. What does Ramsey Solutions recommend regarding robo investment accounts? There are options where you answer questions based on your tolerance to risk and they automate the process and that seems like a simple way for people to invest when they don't know too much about investments or don't have time to manage their account. Is this something you'd recommend?

Well, I like to know what I'm investing in and so I don't want to just delegate it to the robots and not fully understand what's going on behind the scenes. So, the idea is pretty simple.

You know, some people they're not ready to work with an adviser. They don't have a lot of money, so they go the robo investment route. There's a low fee and they feel good about their decisions.

And you're probably, you know, you could do worse than that, but it's still not my favorite option when it comes to investing simply because you you're not fully involved. Yeah, >> George, one of the most requested things we've gotten over the years is for us to actually list the mutual funds that we

personally own. >> Just tell me what to invest in, Dave.

>> What is the mutual fund that you buy or

have even company mutual fund companies have come to us and said, you know, would you endorse our mutual funds? And

um we made the philosophical decision many many years ago to do none of that.

So you guys don't know what mutual funds I have, nor will you because it's not

the point of what I have. The point is what you have.

And the point is you need to learn enough about the mutual fund for you to buy you an investment. You should not

put money in something because Dave Ramsey did. you should put money in something because you looked at it. You understand it and you have taught sat

with a good Smart investor pro with the heart of a teacher and you've learned about the historical. This thing's 62 years old. It's got this kind of track record, this kind of risk. It doesn't feel bad to me. I like it and um you

know, here's the fees on it and I'm okay with that and based on that I'm going to choose that fund and I'm going to invest. That's how you should invest. A robo shouldn't pick it. This is not an automated car wash. It's your investments.

And you know, you shouldn't pick it based on the person sitting next to you in your cubicle. What'd you put in your 401k? That's a bad way to select your 401k options. >> Just looking over Gary's shoulder. >> My god. 50% of the people in 401ks, that's how they picked them. or their company had an automated process that automatically puts them in the dumbest

dumbed down riskaverse possible thing

which is really not a good portfolio of mutual funds and they pick whatever the company dumped them in automatically and didn't even look at it. >> So this is not how you make money.

>> It's not a good investing strategy. >> It's like I'm going to buy a house and never look at it first. I have no idea about the neighborhood. Who knew they had cars up on blocks and shot down the street with uzies? I had no idea. But I just bought a house there. You know why?

Because I heard it was good on TikTok.

You know, I mean that. No, no, you don't do that. You go look at the house. You look at the neighborhood.

You understand. You ask questions about the schools. You say, "What's the hospitals like in the area? What's the traffic pattern around here like?" You get knowledge about the product before you buy it.

And that's what you do with a mutual fund. That's what you do with an investment.

>> Exactly. It always dumbs it down.

>> 20 years later you go, why am I not getting these returns? Dave talked about Yeah. >> Well, it's you're not investing the way we teach. >> The number of times I pull up in a in a 401k with a big company, uh they they've got auto processes or they've got they've got uh buckets of funds. Okay,

here's five funds in the high risk bucket.

Well, guess who does that? No one.

Based on the bucket name. >> Yep. You're not in Vegas. >> But then I pull up the actual funds.

They're not high risk. They're just growth stock mutual funds. They're higher risk than a stupid bond fund, which is in bucket number one. Might >> as well put it in savings >> in the your grandmother's boring bucket.

And then you've got the medium bucket and the Goldilocks bucket just right.

And then you know and so no one does the and basically most people should probably be in the funds that are in that high-risisk bucket but because the way it's named they're just picking a bucket. They don't want to put any effort into learning about it.

>> Yeah. >> Get your butt to school. This is millions of dollars of difference whether you put it in the right fund or not. And so don't use a robo.

>> I do these man on the street, you know, interviews for my YouTube channel. We did one yesterday and I asked people how much they have in retirement and I asked them, "Do you know what you're invested in?" >> Only one person out of 10 or 12 could tell me what they're invested in. And it's because they were a Ramsay fan. Her and her husband in their 30s, $900,000 invested in mutual funds just like we teach. >> Wow. And they got to be on George's YouTube channel, say I'm a millionaire.

>> Pretty cool. >> That's pretty cool. >> And all the others just said, "I don't know. I have a guy who does it. I think >> I've got a guy. >> I said it in my >> People in HR help me. Good lord.

People are picking your funds.

>> 10 years ago, I logged I don't even have the login to the 401k, but 10 years ago, I think I clicked some funds.

>> That's the most of people's knowledge about their investments.

>> And and you know, let me just tell you,

winning at anything is a series of intentional acts. You have to be intentional about your investing. You have to be intentional about your marriage, intentional about raising kids, intentional about taking care of your body, intentional about your spiritual walk. You in, you know, no one wins the Super Bowl and then the reporter runs out on the field and goes, "How did you do that?" And they go, "I don't know.

I just got off the bus and this just happened. What happened?" I don't know. No one says that. They've been studying and playing football since they were freaking six years old.

They don't do anything else except throw a ball. Throw a ball. Get hit by throwing a ball.

That's all they've done their whole freaking life and then they they do they don't know how to do anything else in life because they so focused on that and that's how they get to the Super Bowl. It's an intentional act. It's an intentional act. And so, you know, for God's sakes, don't have a robo pick it for you. I want an app so I don't have to think. There's no there's an app. No,

there's not an app that keeps you from having to think. Not if you want to be somebody and have something. You got to do the stuff or you got to do the stuff. You got to do the stuff. No Robo, no George, no Dave, no Rachel. We're not even going to tell you what invested what Kelly is invested in. We're not even going to tell you her mutual funds cuz I don't even know. So, I can't tell you. So, there you go. And and although

that might get some real serious, but yeah. Anyway, can you imagine Dave Ramsey's producer put that in there?

George's producer put that in there.

That would be that'd be the >> Well, the good news is they're not like super secret funds that only Dave has access to. >> No, they're ridiculously boring.

And you probably have changed it almost never in that period of time you've been investing. >> Yeah, I don't remember changing it.

>> A fund may have moved and switched around. And >> I don't think I even changed it then.

>> You probably don't look at it much now that you've you know what you're invested in. >> Pull it up enough to know what's going on with it cuz I'm intentional. But I'm not like, "Oh, I'm panicking. Trump bombed Iran." I'm like, "No, it went down. Prices went down. Good. I can buy more. >> It's on sale. It's on sale today and all that. Yeah, that's the whole thing. So, be intentional. You know, I used to get

a lot of hate mail for this, so and I haven't done it in a while, so I need to get I haven't had a hate mail in a minute. >> I was going to say we have >> You want some You want some more hate mail? Here we go.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. >> Well, now you've done it, Dave.

>> And you know what? You know where that saying comes from? >> The Bible. >> No, it's the truth.

>> Oh, >> that's where it comes from. >> Thought there was a proverb in there somewhere. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. And you know why? It's

not because rich people are evil. It's not because they're smarter. It's not because they're prettier. It's it's not because they stole money. It's not because they did something wrong. They had a series of habits and principles that they operate their life on and they continue to do that. And you know what poor people do? They have a series of habits and patterns that they operate their life on and that will make you poor >> and keep you there.

Now, there is an exception to that to be fair to just to limit the hate mail just a little bit. Sometimes people are poor because they've been oppressed and they've been in a situation politically or racially or something else where they've been oppressed. That's not their fault. But most of the time in America

when someone's poor, it's because of stupid butt choices. I've been broke,

but I've never been poor. Poor is a state of mind.

If you're a business owner who's serious about growth, you've got to be at Entree Leadership Summit 2027. Summit is our

world-class leadership conference where you will learn from the people who have influenced the way we lead at Ramsey.

You'll also connect with like-minded business owners who are facing the same challenges as you. To get your tickets for May 2027, go to entreeleership.com/summit.

Uh, I just opened up my daughter's Instagram account, Rachel Cruz, and I

I seldom get cracked up and that cracked me up. So, her and Winston toasting a glass of wine. Couples who enjoy good food and wine have a much higher success rate than couples who don't. According to a study I made up, >> she's got your DNA. That sounds like something you would say if you were a female. >> 88% of the statistics are made up on the spot. I'm just saying

>> ironclad research from Rachel Cruz right there >> according to a study I made up. That's great. That's so Ramsay. Callie is in Detroit. Hey Cali, what's going on?

>> Hi. Um my husband and I just had our second child and we've been debating for the past few months whether or not my husband should quit his job and be a stay-at-home dad um and part-time do um

self-employed with our woodworking business. But we wanted your advice.

>> He's part-time self-employed at his woodworking business.

>> No, that's what he would do in addition to being a stay at home dad. He works for what would he what does he make today?

>> He makes 162.

>> And what are you making?

>> I make 187 and then like about 20k in

stock back the year.

Okay. Um,

I take it he hates his job and you don't.

>> Yeah, my job is really flexible. It's fully remote and um I'm really passionate about it and my he Yeah, he does not enjoy his job and he has to drive into work and it's about an hour commute. So, it just puts a lot of the parenting strain on me in addition to my

job. And we just think it the lifestyle would be much be better if um >> No, no, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about he hates his job.

>> Yeah. He also hates his job.

>> So, he's running from something, not to something.

>> Um I think it's both.

>> Yeah.

If he loved his job, you wouldn't even have made the call. you would have hired a governness or nanny to help you when you while you're stay while you're working from home as a remote and

>> I think it's like with our first I stayed at home with our first so it's part of our values as well that like we don't want to um >> we don't want to pay someone else to parent our kids so >> well you're there you're going to be in the house cuz you're remote

>> yeah it's not you're not sending them off a boarding school, you know, somebody put them down for a nap while you finish up a Zoom call.

>> Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, and that's one of the options we're considering is hiring a nanny.

>> I don't think your husband signed up for this because he has sat around for the last 10 years wishing he was a full-time dad sitting at home changing diapers. I think your husband signed up for this because he's trying to get away from his job and because it's what you want him to do.

>> Interesting. Here, I'll just hand him the phone. >> Ah, the plot thickens.

>> Hey, you hate your job and you're wanting to come home is my supposition to get away from your job.

>> I I I wouldn't go so far as to say I hate my job for what I do. It's actually the best job I've ever had, which makes it difficult to leave.

>> Okay. >> It is stressful, but but still the best

job I've had in the field I work in.

>> Okay.

Well, I do relate to my wife's comment that, you know, we're struggling with the idea of would we be paying someone else to raise our children? >> Yeah. I don't I don't suggest that. I get the value. Okay. My wife was a full-time mom, raised our kids. Okay. Um

both of my daughters do have careers. Uh but both of them have, you know, and both of them have some help, but they're not they didn't send their kids off to boarding school and they're not in a daycare and they're not any of that. it's just a you know a part-time nanny situation to supplement the time that they need to be at home cuz they're very flexible like your wife's situation. So anyway, I I can relate to what you're you guys are after here. Um,

and and yeah, I

I'm I'm always the one I want to push back and always make you think make sure you're thinking about what your real motive is under the motive because you're walking away from a couple hundred,000. So, you need to have a really, really, really, really good reason for doing this. And um I don't run into a lot of people that um

that the guy wants to come home. And if you want to, I'm not mad about it. It's okay. I'm not saying you're doing something morally wrong. But um but

you're you know, you're dro you're leaving a couple hundred,000 or 8 what you make $160,000 on the >> going from 370 to 207 is what would happen. >> And um uh so you need to have really

thought that out. Uh because the part-time woodworking thing is kind of a joke as far as um that that's a throwaway. That's like acting like you're doing something else. And by the way, who's going to watch the kid while you're doing that? So um you know,

>> it still leaves a gap potentially. But anyway, the um so

I this feels like it feels in the air like something else is driving this other than you just woke up, sir, and said, "I really don't want to work

anymore. I want to be with the babies all day long." I don't think that's what

happened. I you know, I don't I don't hear that here. But y'all do whatever you want to do. I'm not mad at you about it.

And it's not a I think it's a values like you said earlier, you guys both said it and and I agree with what you said, Sarah. It's a values-based decision. Oh, not Sarah, I'm sorry, Cali. And so, um, but it's a values-based decision.

really go deep on the a spiritual and

emotional relational discussion on what's really driving this. And um it it

it I don't know. I just I got to check on it, but I'm I could be wrong.

>> I like the tri the idea of a trial run with a nanny. see how that goes. And if it just pains you to not be there with the kids, then you know.

>> Yeah. Well, and again, a nanny is not a full-time gig here. It's supplementing mom who's already in the house. And um

you know, if she was at work, that's a, you know, in a physical location away from the house, that'd be a completely different discussion then. But um cuz a

nanny is then quote someone raising your kids unquote. Uh although that's overstated because that's not really what happens. your children when they're in school all day long, someone else is not raising your children. You're still raising your children. >> Yeah. If this is the case, >> when they get old enough that they go to school, >> homeschool and and continue down that path. >> Exactly. That whole thing. So, um, but

you know, again, my children went to school and someone else did not raise my children. It was not a boarding school. It was a public high school, public elementary school, and someone else did not raise my children. So that's not that's not an accurate statement when you have other people involved in some of the hours of their life. Uh they also went to Sunday school on Sunday morning but someone else didn't raise my children spiritually. I did spiritually they you know their um spiritual walk is largely my fault.

Hello. You know one way or the other.

>> Yeah. The parents will still have the most influence. >> That's interesting. Yeah. That's interesting. It's a good discussion and uh I want you to go deep with the discussion and double triple check both of your motives and uh don't overstate

things in hyperbole to justify it. Um

and someone else raising my children when a nanny's helping parttime is overstating it and I'm going to have a part-time woodworking thing but I'm going to be at home full-time with a kid. No, you're not. Something you're,

you know, I don't know how part-time, but I mean, 1 hour a day, it's not, you know, um, and you know, with a monitor.

I mean, I don't, >> it's probably not going to add meaningful income on top of the 207.

>> Exactly. So, yeah. And then, you know, what is it? Um, and then what's five

years look like and what's two years look like and what's one year look like and u and is there an exit possibility

from this situation? If we get into it and we don't like it, what are we going to do? How could we return to something that looked more like what we had before? I don't know. All of those things are things I want to talk through clearly. Um, but again, I I'm really not

mad at you about it saying it's a horrible idea. I just it there's just something bothering me and and it's not

just that I'm a child of the 60s.

Hey,

hey, hey.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsay.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Our

scripture of the day, Proverbs 16:3.

Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your plans. George Bernard Shaw said, "If all the economists were laid end to end, they'd never reach a conclusion." >> That's good. That's funny. Hey guys, in

2023, the stock market was up 26%.

In 2024, it was up 25%.

In 2025, it was up 18%.

In those three years, if you had put money in, you would have made an 87% rate of return in three years. You would have doubled your money almost.

Now, I don't think the stock market's going to do that all the time, but some of you have been sitting money with sitting with money in a checking account while that happened because you don't have a Smart Investor Pro in your corner to teach you about investing. You need

to learn about investing. When it is time for you to invest, you've gotten out of debt, you have your emergency fund, you need to have someone that can help you. And we've been connecting listeners to Smart Investor Pros for over 20 years. They'll help you create a plan and they'll teach you and then they'll help you make informed investing decisions. You will decide, not them,

not me. Go to ramseyolutions.com/smartvestor and find a pro near you and quit missing

out on all of this. See, the news doesn't talk about the stock market when it's good. The only time they talk about it is when it's bad.

>> So, you are missing out because no one was telling you, including us. We didn't tell you. We should have told you. It's been great and you missed out. It's up 13% this year.

>> Go check your 401k if you don't believe us. If you're invested in the right things. >> Yeah, for real. Sarah's in Louisville, Kentucky. Hi, Sarah. How are you?

>> I'm well. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> So, my fiance and I are getting married.

Um, we've already set a date and we are getting civily married. Um, I am the

youngest of my parents' children. I'm the only girl and there are no female cousins and my fiance is the youngest

boy. We have decided not to do a traditional wedding and we're not even going to get married by a pastor. We're actually getting married by a judge. Um,

and our families, I think, um, my my my

family already knew how I felt about spending that type of money on a day,

but we're getting some pressure as if we

are being um, I don't know, dismissive

because we don't want to spend that money. Our plan and that we've already started on. Okay.

>> The money that we're going to spend is your money, not theirs.

Am I right? >> Correct. >> Okay. So, it's not like his mom and dad have offered to give you $50,000 for a wedding.

>> No. >> No. My parents are giving us some money.

They also are going to >> they're going to give us about 40,000 and they want to spend um they want to throw me a you know because they're very traditional a wedding celebration party.

And I said, "Okay." But the half I said I really don't want I would rather that money go towards the house. But they did say well we will still see money towards the house. >> Okay. So you're having a well a wedding celebration party to >> uh to to to for so family and friends can enjoy this celebration with you and your parents are paying for it. It's costing you nothing.

>> Yes. >> And you're getting married by a judge and that's the plan. And his mom doesn't like it.

Well, I won't say doesn't like it. I

would say the family and it's really not. His mom is is being respectful.

His, you know, I think the dad and the mom just expected us to be more traditional to be married by a pastor to

actually have a wedding. I'm not doing I did not do a bachelorette party, a bridal party, or an engagement party because >> But his dad doesn't care about any of that.

>> You added that. >> I doubt it. His dad doesn't care if you had a bachelorette party. I promise his dad doesn't care.

>> Okay. But he is kind of worried about you not having a traditional wedding with a pastor because he's a person of faith.

>> Yes. And I guess for me, I just I don't We are buying a house. We are We >> No, but having a pastor marry you doesn't cost any more than having a judge marry you.

>> True. >> Okay. So what is he what is his what's his hang-up?

>> I'm trying to figure out who's pressuring you other than in your head.

>> Well, their hangup is that we are not in really they are not our my parents are handling a lot of the party and there's

really no involvement from that side of the family and because I'm definitely like I'm I don't want but >> that's not a that's not a money thing.

That's a relational and communications thing.

The question I have definitely is how do I communicate? Why? Like is there a better way to communicate? We just think that's a waste of money. I don't want to go into it, you know, >> going back. >> No, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I I would just say here's what we want to do and why.

And is is there an issue you have with that?

And let them tell you instead of you trying to figure out what it is because you don't know. You ain't even been able to tell me.

>> I think well I I know that the issue is basically that our that definitely we are doing this on our own and there has been no type of >> Well, usually the groom's family doesn't write checks except for the rehearsal dinner traditionally.

>> Yes. Yes. But we're not doing a rehearsal >> dinner.

And I I honestly doubt that the whole family's upset that they're not having to pay for a rehearsal dinner >> or plan it. It's not like that's super fun for most people.

>> So So what kind of involvement are they wanting >> enough weddings?

I I I'm guessing

that more. >> I think here's the thing. I don't Here's the thing. I I want you to do what you want to do. you're the bride and unless so and unless someone is financing their

personal wishes, they don't get a vote.

And like in the case of your parents, your parents desire a party and they're going to pay for the party and still give you the gift they promised above that. And so your parents are have handled that appropriately. Therefore, they get a vote and you let them have that vote and agreed to that party. You see what I'm saying?

That's a good that was a process that was perfectly handled. I would consider the same thing on the actual service itself and say that, you know, it means a lot to his dad because he's a person of faith to have this done by a pastor in a church and it's going to cost exactly the same money and it doesn't offend me. If it does offend you, then you don't have to do it. But if if it doesn't offend you and you're you're neutral on that, then why not do it there instead of the judge?

Nothing you've described to me is anybody getting hurt economically. No one's wasting any money here except your parents according to your process. And your parents are doing it gleefully as I would. By the way, I like a big party at a wedding.

I mean, the first time we saw Jesus do miracles was at a party at a wedding.

So, I'm in for parties at a wedding.

>> The wine was flowing. >> That's it. And so, um, but I mean, I'm I'm like the all the old people in this story. I'm I'm traditional in your story.

So, but your mom and dad have handled this perfectly.

That's what I would get. I like that plan. And then everybody's a little bit happy. >> Um, if I couldn't find the problem.

>> Yeah, I think it is a lot. Like you mentioned, it's a it's more feelings because we just don't have the information. >> Well, I I read into what I think people are thinking way too often when I don't ask them >> without communicating >> what they're really thinking. >> Yeah, I do it with a caller.

>> Well, there's just so much Yeah, that's true. There's so much emotion around a wedding and there's different families and different values and backgrounds and I think most people just don't have the conversation. Yeah. Early on to say, "Hey, here's our plan. We all on the same page." >> Yeah. I wrote all the checks and I'm still happy that none of my kids aloped.

>> You don't I had a blast.

>> It wasn't money wasted. >> And I can't wait to be at my grandkids weddings and I may write those checks.

So there, shut up. >> Clip that one, too. I want to send that to the grandkids. Let them know. >> Yeah. Well, they already know. They try to keep the old man alive long enough.

That's it. That puts the Sour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 272. You Don’t Have to Stay Broke | August 25, 2025


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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

[Music]

This is the Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their money, their work, and their relationships. We're so excited to have you with us today.8825-5225

is the phone number.8825-5225.

Alongside the lovely Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman. You ready to go, partner?

>> I'm ready, partner. What a What a good day. >> It's a good day. Lacy joins us first in Jacksonville, Florida. Lacy, how can we help?

>> Uh, yes. I'm just trying to get advice.

I'm uh kind of stuck financially. I

purchased uh my home about 400,000

beginning of 2024. uh with the interest

rates. Um it's not really affordable. I

thought that I could refinance. Um but it's really um I I make the good salary,

but I'm kind of living paycheck to paycheck, unable to save the debt that I have. Um, it's kind of just there hanging around, not going anywhere, and I just want to get out of this house or I don't really have a solution to uh to

remedy this poor financial decision that

I made for myself.

>> Okay, Lacy, how much is your house payment every month?

>> Uh, 3,100. >> 3,100. And how much are you bringing home?

Um, after taxes I bring home about uh

let's see uh 56.

>> Oh my gosh. >> 100. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't afford this house.

I mean, how Yeah. I mean, that leaves you Yeah. 2,000ish dollars per month. How much are your debt payments on everything else?

>> Um, usually over a,000. my car note is

about 400 because I put down about 15,000 on my car. So, I owe about 19.

And then slowly, you know, throughout the last couple years, I used credit cards here and there, but when I initially purchased the home, I didn't have any credit card debt. Um, I did do

an FHA mortgage, so I do have PMI.

Um, but yeah, it it was definitely a poor financial uh I just I wanted a

newer home and >> yeah, >> wanted a private office space and uh I don't know, you know, I've looked at >> foreclosure, short sale. Um, but the

home's kind of, you know, a lot hasn't been taken off of um, you know,

besides my down payment because of how much is going towards interest. So, you know, it's still about 365 >> for sure. Well, and I'm just wondering even with your car payment and other debt, I mean, you probably only have $1,000 to do everything, Lacy, of of to eat and to pay your bills, I mean, electricity and all of it. Are you going into credit card debt every month to keep just your basics afloat?

>> Yeah, basically. Uh, and then I the cycle is vicious because, you know, I pay the payments and then, you know, I'm broke. uh you know within a week or less

after I'm paid.

>> I just want to ask the obvious. Are you single?

>> Um I am single. I am.

>> Why did you pause?

>> Is there is there something else we don't know? Yeah, there's something there. What what what were you pausing about? >> Well, I do have uh my boyfriend. Um, I

let him move in with me, but I don't know how long term that's going to be, and I don't really rely upon that. And his income is substantially less. So, I don't really count.

>> Is he Is he paying anything?

>> He does pay, you know, about 25 to 30%,

but it's not enough to give me reprieve or to really make a dent in

the, you know, what's on my plate.

everything's in my name and uh >> No, no, I get that and I'm not we would never suggest otherwise. I I just I don't know why I decided to ask that. I had an inkling. But the point is is he needs to be uh >> if he's the roommate, I don't care what your relationship status is, he needs to be doing more than that, Rachel.

Am I right? >> Yeah. I mean, >> 25% >> in the short term, but I mean, you got to get out of this house. >> Yeah.

I would put this house up for sale. >> Yeah. That's the That's the play. Take whatever lumps you're going to take on this, but you got to remove this.

>> Yeah. And I would just go rent, Lacy. I would not be a homeowner right now because your finances are all over the place. You have so you have a $19,000 car loan.

>> Uh what's the what credit card debt do you have?

>> Um about 20,000 total. I added it up.

>> Okay. What other debt is there?

>> Well, there's student loan debt. Um how much is that forbearance? It's about a h 100,000 total.

>> What' you get your degree in? >> Because of um nursing.

validated. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Why aren't you doing overtime?

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I um I work for uh private sector

right now. Um but I do have um I'm about

to start a second job to do um bedside

nursing. >> Great. But by the way, that's what you got to do. >> I just want to throw that in real quick, Rachel. I know I interrupted, but with your nursing skill, you have got to be working like a crazy woman right now to

get the rest of this debt. Forget the house part, but we've got to clean up the house and then the rest of the stuff. But you've got to There's no life for you. You are using a very valuable skill to be making as much money as possible.

And by the way, we've had I remember a debtree scream, Rachel. It was probably over a year ago. Uh, and it was a travel nurse and she paid off hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and she just worked like an absolute maniac. So, I just want to >> give you that, Lacy.

Sorry, Rachel. I know you were working somewhere. >> How long?

>> For how long? >> She did it for about two and a half years. It was a short amount of time.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, I would be looking into some creative solutions just to get your head above water, Lacy. If you do you know how much the house is worth right now? You >> So, that's the thing. It's It's worth about 385 and I owe about 370 on it

because like m much hasn't gone away. So

I think that I'm going to come out a negative. Yeah, it may be a little bit negative. Um but I would rather do that and free up $3,100 a month. Now you'll have to pay rent somewhere.

>> Uh but even if you can find a place for $1,800, right? I mean like it just this starts to free up. >> Well, if you're shacking up with a boyfriend, he needs to pay half. Am I wrong about that? No, no, you're not.

>> Okay. I just wanted to make sure >> it may not be longterm because it's not really that beneficial to me.

>> Yeah. >> What? He's not.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, kick him to the curb. Why do we You're You have no life right now.

You're working so hard. We don't have time for a boyfriend. >> Yeah. >> I'd kick him to the curb. He's a Listen, he's a financial deadbeat anyway.

>> I know. I mean, come on. Let's be honest. Any dude worth his weight and salt would have said, "I'm gonna pay half, babe." Right. But no, he's he's he's freeloading off of you to the tune of 25%. >> Uhuh. Yeah. >> Major, did you say major turnoff?

>> Yeah.

>> Yes. I love that. That's great.

>> Yeah. So, Lacy, that Yeah. This house is killing you. Okay. And I know you know that, but that's exactly what I would do. I would sell it. Um hopefully as soon as possible. I mean, obviously, you don't want to be you don't want to be too urgent because you don't want to like sell low. Um but get a great real estate agent. If you go to ramseysolutions.com and check out our ELPs, we have real estate agents all across the country. >> And get someone who is good at this.

This is what they do. They sell houses.

They sell a lot of houses. And you may take a small loss, but that is going to be so worth it because it's going to free up your income. And then you have to start attacking this debt. But in the meantime, Lacy, make sure food, shelter, utilities, transportation is current.

Don't get behind on the house. Make sure those things are current. And then you got to step up with the income and you got to pay the debt off. You yeah, you have a good two, three, four year journey ahead of you.

But uh but but I think it's bright and I think your future's bright and you can do this. It's just some hard big decisions you have to make with the house and Ken's two big sum it up. Two big decisions. We're kicking the boyfriend out and then we're listing the house.

Very simple.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like, I can't even imagine. Or even if it was opposite, right, if if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying

to figure out how am I going to afford child care? How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing? Like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level. Like when you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills next week?

>> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is.

So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family. So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

>> All right, let's go to Angela who's joining us in Illinois. Angela, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thank you so much for taking my phone call. Um, so I'll give a a short scenario of kind of what happened. So, um, I'm a 36-year-old female. Um, and my

fiance passed on a motorcycle accident about a month and a half ago or so.

>> Oh my gosh, Angela. >> Angela, I'm so sorry.

>> My goodness, that's so tragic. How long

How long have you guys were you guys together for? >> About eight years. And so, yeah. And so

being 3 weeks from us getting married, uh we set oursel up for like a very strong financial future. Um it's just

like if anything were to ever happen.

>> So I received his life insurance policy.

Um and so I'm kind of in this like I

didn't expect him to lose him this early and our um journey together. And so I'm

trying to find out at at 36 years old

and um his life insurance policy was 301,000 um and some change of that. Um and after

all of our debt is paid, I'm sitting on a chunk of about $120,000.

>> Okay. >> Um I make about $71,000 before taxes.

Um, I'm going to be getting a social security check for my son um that we had

together for um essentially, you know,

his social security. And then >> what's that amount? >> We um I have not had a conclusive um

amount yet, but I they had estimated somewhere between $900 to $2,100. Okay.

>> Um estimated per month.

>> And because we weren't married, I don't get like a you know, a part of that. But I like I said to be 36 years old I find

myself in a position that I never >> really anticipated. Right. Um

>> like >> he's five. >> Okay.

>> So um my heart is kind of telling me I'd

like to build a generational wealth for us and then for him. And so I've been

looking at like compound interest of that type of thing. And then everybody else is kind of like persuaded this idea of estates and what I should be doing with it. And I I feel like at this point

um my taxes are relatively cheap, like

right around $2,100 a year. Um electric,

gas, I have all city amenities, but my house value I would say right around like $170 $180,000 with two acres, five

bedrooms. Um we just bought during COVID at a really great time. Um, and so I

just feel like my net worth has been um,

you know, post all of this, I just feel like I'm just really in a position that I I don't want to be um,

I don't want to be weak in this $120,000. I feel like it's given an opportunity. >> Can I ask you something, Angela? Is because it goes from 301 to 120. Is that paying off the house? That's paying off our house. Okay. I have both vehicles that we have, a camper. Um, >> have you already done all that?

>> Um, I'm in the midst of I just paid off the camper because it had a higher interest rate than what I we were planning on moving it over to a lower interest rate um with my tech with my work um because I had a better credit union. >> And then um the motorcycle that he

passed on um he only held that debt. So

that essentially is not part of >> okay >> this life insurance policy concept. So >> well the only reason I asked I didn't mean to rabbit trail you but we want to make sure that you actually do this. This is great because that's going to get you there to where you got 120 left.

So >> the question is what do you do with the 120? So with all the debt gone um you're

going to need an emergency fund. Do you have did you already have an emergency fund for you because you guys were not married? What what do you have any of that at all? >> Yeah.

And I think that's where I'm kind of stuck in that is that what does an emergency I mean for me like you know three months worth of bills was where I was sitting with an emergency fund um that we sit with cash inside of our safe. So that was just the idea if anybody took anything out of our bank accounts. >> Okay. >> That was there.

>> Well um >> that's not what we would tell you to do and you know what three months expenses are. You already done that. >> How much is it? How much would three months be?

So, >> and you're saying you already have that set aside in cash, correct?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. I would like you worried about the digital part, right, of being something being stolen. So, just having it here.

>> Yeah. Well, okay. Yeah, you can just put it in a high yield savings account. It's FD FDIC insured. You are safe. Yeah,

you'll be good with that. And I would bump it up to 20 because you have a son

and again just as some cushion. So I would put 20 20 grand which you already have 13 so it's an extra seven coming out. Um so that leaves you with a yeah 113,000 and >> you know Angela you could with this amount of money I would

>> I that I would spread it over three different ways. And if you feel like you don't need to spend any of it and you just want to put it aside you can totally do that. You could put the whole chunk of it just in, you know, an index fund and it would grow to probably $2

million by the time you're 65 without even touching it. So that in of itself would be a life-changing account, right?

That you could just put away and and not even look at you, you know, barely even have to manage it. >> And so that's an option. You could also use some of this money and open up a 529

for your son and put a chunk of money in there and let that grow for him so when it's time for college um that he has $100,000 you know 120 sitting in there for college um you know there there's some things you can definitely do but I will say 113 it'll go fast like when you

start to actually kind of divvy it out but I I the the amount of intentionality

with it I feel from you because it's

from him, right? I'm like, you want this legacy of him, of your fiance, the love of your life, >> the father of your son to to live on well. And so, um, so there's different ways you could do that from giving, saving. >> Do you have >> spending some of it? >> Yeah, I agree with Rachel. What do you have as far as 401k or any type of retirement accounts?

>> Yeah, so when we purchased the house, I did pull a little bit of money from my 401k. Um, but right now, I mean, my 401k

is is is growing. Um, I apologize. I did not look before the the circumstance.

But I mean, I I do plan on continuing to work. Um, >> just because I just there's just, you know, intentionality of just having health insurance for my son and then also I would like my idea of this compound interest is where my brain sort of >> Sure. Yeah. >> caught on to. >> I think Rachel's advice is great. Here's what I would add. I would tell you to if you don't have a a true smartvest or pro in your life, go to ramseyolutions.com and go interview three or four or five.

>> Find out which one you click with the most. This is just all about some basic likability chemistry thing and then uh get their opinions. Have them because we've told you and we'll recap what we would do with the 113. I'm with Rachel.

That's the number I've got because the seven's going to get your emergency fund up to where I think it's the right number. So let's say you got 113 to work with. I would get a Smart Vster. I get multiple to tell them what they would do with it and and explain it to where you get it. Um, but I'm with Rachel. I would

um what I would do is I would ask a Smart Investor Pro, okay, I got a 5-year-old. How much money of the 113 would catch them up? Assuming I was, let's say a h 100,000 was our goal. You can talk through this.

Okay. Well, he's five. I'm five years behind. So, how much of the 113 do I put in that would catch him up?

They can give you that number. And then what do I need to put in, you know, monthly or do I take a lump sum here and go, "All right, because you got the $900.

>> I talk to them about that, too, and go, "Do I put in a lump sum out of the 113, Rachel, into the 529 >> and then take the >> the entire or a good portion of the social security check and put that in because that's for him." Yeah. And then you take the rest of the >> let's say it let's say it's 100 just for conversation. I'm with Rachel. I would invest that and let that just build because we don't have to run the investment calculator, but I'm telling you uh that's going to double every seven years.

That's what the historical return is.

you really going above and beyond what you're already doing with the 15% as we teach here in Baby Step 4. But I think you've got a clear-cut strategy. But I think you should sit down with a professional and get them to partner with you and let's use this wisely >> and not to you know Ken just said this and I don't think we've said it in the call Angela but consistently now I want you investing 15% of your income into retirement above and beyond this 113.

Okay. So, that's going to be Roth IAS, your 401k. And if you're doing that through your income and you have a jump start, maybe maybe take some of this and and the Smart Investor Pro may say, "Hey, yeah, take, you know, 78,000 of it and let's fund your 40 or your Roth for the year." And, you know, you can find some smart ways to move it around. But I do think your your initial reaction of investing in this compound interest, I think, is really wise.

Um, and that's where that's probably where I would lean for sure, whether investing for your son's future part of it with college, you for retirement in the future, and also for that emergency fund.

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[Music]

All right, folks. The 2026

Ramsay goal planner is here. I feel like Roger Goodell announcing the NFL draft.

Very exciting. The 2026.

Let me get this. Oh my gosh. It's a This is a This is not a one-armed planner.

>> It's a heavy heavy >> note. To those of you who love planners, this is going to require you doing some basic weightlifting.

>> Um, this is unbelievable. And I guess we're offering it at uh $35.97.

It's a curious price. A little bit less than $36. Yep.

>> And I'm telling you folks, you could hurt a person. >> And I think this is the lowest price. So you moms out there could use this as a paddle. >> Does anybody do that anymore? >> I don't think so. I was thinking more self-defense. >> I I know. I'm old school. I would >> someone comes. >> Well, if you're in a dark alley, ladies, this bring out this spiral thing here.

That'll cut a man. >> Well, and cut him because it's launching now. It is the lowest price and it will continue to go up because these are very they're very valuable planners, >> but we do a quick we do a quick launch early on with lowest price.

>> You know what I like? Little ruler right here on the inside takes me back to the Trapper Keeper days. >> I wish I had some Velcro. >> Wish I had a little Velcro. That's what I was going to say. >> They should You know what? 2027, >> we need a Trapper Keeper option.

>> Oh, yes. >> I'll talk to the team. But now, Rachel's right. If you don't get this before Labor Day, the price is going up. In fact, it's going up so much that it's not even on my notes here. So, that tells me it's going up. >> Yeah, that's right. >> So, you better get it right now for $35.97.

>> So, it has contents in it from John.

tell John Deloney, myself and Jade Warshaw, >> relationships, spirituality, your money, and then there's also obviously all the calendars from like the month outlook to >> lot of tabs >> to the lot of tabs >> to the uh weekly all of it. But the planner world, Ken, it's a world out there. There are women that live in this world. >> I know. Can you detect my I can't stand.

My wife still uses one of these. She loves this. I know when we do dates, I'm on my phone. She's over here with this thing >> flipping flipping her calendar open.

>> I don't get it.

>> But I do get it. My wife loves this.

Stacy's going to be thrilled. >> It's beautiful. >> I might take this one. James, can I take this one home and surprise Stacy?

>> You may not. Okay. James says, "No, that's show prop. >> You can buy your own." >> I love it. Was so polite.

>> And at the lowest price ever.

>> $35.97 only at ramseysolutions.com/store.

Ramseyolutions.com/store.

Maybe Kelly, the associate producer, will get a free one. Maybe. I don't know. I don't know if it's a perk. You have to talk to James. All right, Lori's up next in Canada. Lori, how can we help?

>> Oh, hi, Ken. Hi, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. Rachel, it's nice to talk to you again. I I was on the phone with you and Jade about a month or so ago. >> Oh. >> And so, I'm hoping to expand a little bit on my question a little bit. I I did follow your advice. Um I my question was whether to get a mobile home or rent.

>> Yes, I remember this. Yes.

>> And what did Rachel tell you? >> To get around to it, but I I am following your advice. Um and now my question uh comes up. There's a new question that comes up actually. So I'm 27 years old. I have about um $28,000 in

student debt. I earn about $4,000 a

month after tax. Um, and so I'll be

relocating 3 hours away for for a job.

Um, currently living with family, rentree, and now, uh, with that move, I'll be renting. Um, I was going to be

done baby step two in March of 2026, but

now with this move, I'm it's going to be delaying delaying my uh, debt-free date

by 12 to 14 months just based on the

numbers I've crunched.

>> You making less money? Well, no. Well, I'll be renting now. And right now, I'm not renting at all. >> Uh, that's right. You're living free. That's right. >> Okay. So, we have a $1,200 increase.

What about the income increase?

>> Um, I'm not increasing income yet. Um, there's a few uh variables that are still unknown, but I should know soon if I will be getting an increase in income in a few months. >> Okay. >> Um, but like I I have a part-time job

right now. I'll be losing that. Um it's

just creating a lot of anxiety and fear around um paying off debt. I feel really demoralized about >> Okay, so hold on. What's demoralizing you? Is it the increase in cost because you're living for free now? And is it also that you're losing this part-time job? Is that are those the sources of feeling demoralized because I'm going backwards?

Um, it's more so just a debtfree date that's being pushed back by so much like it's >> Yeah, but those are the two reasons or more. >> Are those the two primary reason here?

I'm I'm setting you up.

>> Those are the two primary reasons why you're moving the date, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's let's look at how we would maybe not move the date. Okay.

First of all, we don't know yet what your increase in income is going to be. True or false?

>> Uh, true. >> True. And there are part-time jobs where

you're moving. True or false?

>> True. It has been very difficult though.

I've been applying actually prematurely just in hopes to get some responses, but I have yet to receive anything. Very difficult. >> Okay, I get it. But let's have a mindset here that I it is possible. Isn't it true that it's possible that you can find a part-time job at some point upon moving? Is that possible?

>> It is. >> Okay, great. Now, tell Rachel and I how much money of that income that you're bringing home that you told us, how much of that is from the part-time job?

>> It's not actually. So, with the part-time job, I get an additional like $500 to $1,000 a month. Um, I don't work

a lot of hours where I'm currently working in my part-time job. So, Okay.

>> And also, we're in the low season right now. >> Okay. So, what I would tell you, Lori, is is to find something that you make $1,200 a month.

>> Mhm. and and and that's part of this baby step two process. It's cutting all expenses and bringing in extra income and it's scorched earth. So instead of it extending an additional 12 months because you were going to be out by March which is pretty soon. I mean that's you know 6 months.

>> Um is that right? Revenge

>> eight months. I had to count I had to count the months real quick. Make sure that was correct. >> Um so in Yeah. So 8 months and now

you're saying it's going to be an additional year because of you don't

have a part-time job right now and the rent. So what I would make it a goal was to say it may not be March, but it's going to be June. Like it's not going to be another year. >> I agree. >> And work like crazy. That's all you have to do for eight months. Eight months.

All you got to do is just is spend

nothing, you know? Yeah.

>> Take your expenses all the way down. And then that extra of that extra income is what is key for a lot of people that get out of debt. That's what we find. And again, it's not forever. >> Yeah. >> But it's literally just through the Christmas season into the spring and then you have your end date and you're good. >> And Lori, what about a roommate?

>> I've considered those options. I I've asked around friends and things like that. I There hasn't been anybody interested. >> Lori, listen. Let me tell you what's going on. And I'm saying, can I be big brother here? you you have the spirit

>> of I can't do it.

>> It's so hard. And I love that you called back and I love that you're being honest with us, but you're every time we present a solution to you and the way you set the entire call up is I'm overwhelmed, which means and I've talked to a lot of overwhelmed people in my time at Ramsey Solutions and the reason they're overwhelmed is because they don't believe.

They don't believe. Okay. So, what we've

been attempting to do is to go, "Wait a second. Is it possible?" And that was my little game that I did with you a little bit earlier because I the the thing that's going on with you is you've actually done so well. You're committed and now you've had a change of life and it has thrown you off. But this is all mindset. This is not some like kumbaya

technique I'm trying to tell. I'm telling you, you've got to go, wait a second. This is how I feel. That's real.

And and I don't in any way want to minimize your emotions. However, you feel that way because you've not allowed your mind to actually look for solutions. You just saw a roadblock. I got to move now. Now I'm not getting rent free. I'm actually paying rent.

Well, welcome to the real world. You've been living in La La Land with no rent.

Good for you. But this is real life.

This is not the end of the world. Okay.

So, Rachel and I've walked you through these scenarios. And I'm telling you, I want to encourage you. You can find a roommate. You can find a part-time job.

And if you do those things, as Rachel said, you won't have to push back the timeline. And dare I say, if you get a roommate, I think you can beat the debtfree payoff.

>> Go even earlier.

>> Let's cut it from 1,200 to 600.

>> Yep. Yeah. There. And and Lori, I want you to know that this is possible. You know, you're not trying to find $10,000 a month. >> It's it's a,000 bucks. You can do it.

>> You can do it. Yes. So go, you know,

take this situation and and say, "I'm going to happen to it, not let it happen to me." We believe in you. You got this.

[Music]

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[Music]

All right. If you uh not sure how you're doing on staying in step with the baby

steps, we have a quick quiz that'll allow you to check your progress and get a personalized plan. Go to the show notes. If you're listening via podcast and YouTube, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" Quick little quiz and that'll let you know where you stand. And it's very important that you understand in any kind of processoriented uh goal, okay, I'm on this path that

there are going to be just times in life where you just feel like you're off step and seeing where you stand, knowing where you stand is really huge to mentally getting back on track so you can keep going. So that's a fabulous little quiz. We'd love for you to join us there. Leo is up in San Diego, California. Leo, how can we help today?

>> Uh how you doing? and uh thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it.

>> Sure. >> Um so uh me and my wife were newly weds, been married and got married um February 14th. >> Congrats. >> Oh, a little Valentine's Day wedding.

>> Nice. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was it was good. Um we've been together a total of about three and a half years. Um we've been we got our own apartment about a little about two years ago. and our mother-in-law, well,

she wasn't my mother-in-law at first, but she decid she offered to help us

with rent. Um, so we took her up on an

offer and everything was going good until we got married. Uh, couple of months after we got married, she started harassing my wife like through text

message, like just all kinds of just mean and dirty, just vile things, just like just mean things. And then um >> that's fun. >> So she uh we basically decided to just

you know um kind of just decline her help because she was um kind of putting

stipulations on it. Like one she called and said if you want our rent if you want my half of the rent this month you have to prove to me xyz which was no problem because we proved it to her. But it would that you know it was just like out of nowhere you know. >> Well she out of nowhere started harassing her own daughter. This woman's cray cray. >> Yes. Did you know she was crazy before you married?

>> Yes. >> Well, what do you Okay, quick life lesson. >> I tried. >> Don't ever ever ever

fight your instinct on relationship

stuff with family members cuz if crazy is in the family, there's more crazy is going to show up. So, let's let's move forward on this. And have you put up a boundary? Put up a boundary. She can't Yeah. >> Yes. We our boundary was blocking her.

Um, so that was that's that's that. But ever since ever and before before we decided to um stop taking her help, we were doing great with staying up on staying our bills were paid on time.

Everything was good. >> Um, but we didn't save we didn't save anything. My wife was saying, "Hey, we need to save." But >> me being bad with money, we made I made very bad decisions and we ended up in a situation where we didn't have any we weren't ready for this situation that we were in. you weren't ready for it period because I I just want to rewind real quick.

You got you've said twice now that you guys were great >> at paying everything while she was giving you money, which means you weren't ever great cuz you didn't have enough money to pay your bills. So, exactly. Exactly. >> All right.

Her money's gone. Thank goodness. How short are you?

>> Okay. So, we are paying the rent, but we are late every month. So every check

we're we're coming up with the like we're catching up. So this next first of

the month we're going to be short. The next we'll catch up.

>> Okay. How much how much do you guys make per month? What do you both bring in?

>> We between us we bring probably Oh, I don't know the amount between us. I just did the yearly. Um the yearly between both

of us is 50K.

>> Between the both of you is 50K.

>> Yes. What do you guys do for a living?

>> Uh, I do aerospace manufacturing and she's a barista in a hotel.

>> Okay. I love that you said you do aerospace manufacturing, but let's get real. What is your job? You're only making $25,000 a year average between the two of you. What are you doing? >> I I do I do deburring, which is like the lowest. I am currently um in training.

Like I do have CC experience. I'm in training like within the next year. I do plan on moving up. I'm in the process of moving up to to a CNC position. How much would you make which will come with a raise? >> Um, probably about$ two or three dollars more. Probably about 25 at 28 at the

max. I'm guessing that's after, you know, I get some schooling and more training. >> How old are you guys in the process?

>> I am 39. We're both 39.

>> Okay. >> 39. And you guys, you don't even know what you make. So, it's really hard for Rachel to coach you up on You don't even know how much you make.

You've just given us We got a $50,000 figure. So, what debt Here's what here's what's got to happen, Leo. I'm going to be really honest with you, okay? If Ken and I were out to drinks with you and your and your newlywed wife, >> this is what we would this is this is what I would say to you.

>> Cocktail wisdom. Here it comes. >> I would say everything you've known and thought and done with money, we're going to do the complete opposite. >> Good decision.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Meaning, you don't really know where your money's going. You don't really know how much you make or bring in a month.

That's going to change.

so OCD about your money and where every

dollar is going >> that you're going to be able to rattle off what you guys spend at the grocery store every week, okay? Because you guys are going to have a very, very detailed budget. And we're going to give you some stuff, Leo, to help you help this happen. Okay? >> But that's the thing. >> We've been trying to >> Well, and and I'm gonna be honest too, Leo. you guys, you know, your jobs, what

you're making, you guys need to be making double. So, she's working as a barista. >> If I were her, I would be applying to be a receptionist somewhere, right? Go be an assistant to someone like >> go, you have to be in this position because you're both adults now and and if you want to have a family and you guys want to, you know, extend your lives, these incomes have to go up, which means probably a change of career, probably more for her. Yours sounds like it hopefully has some.

>> It's taking off. It's taking off.

She has kids. So, we already have kids in the like they're her kids. They're my stepkids. >> Okay. >> Um so, we their kids are definitely in the they're not full-time with us.

>> All right. Leo. Leo. Leo. Leo. It's It's a Okay. Yes. >> Hold on. Sorry. We have limited No, no, you're great. We're trying to help you. How much do you make per hour? Do you know that >> I make $21 an hour?

>> Okay. So a year from now you think or believe you're gonna get a two to3 an hour raise.

>> Yes. >> That's not that's not a career that's Yeah. But that's not a career that's taken off.

>> Yes. >> You're not taking off. You're on the doorstep of 40.

>> And And you've got to get serious. I'm not beating up on you. I'm just going dude. Like you you've got to have a plan

that moves you forward. not a year from now to a2 to3 dollar raise.

>> Okay. Same thing. So, we need to

collectively get together and say, "What do we want for our lives? What's a target?" >> Exactly. >> What must be true for us to make $100,000 >> combined?

>> You guys are time is moving, bro.

>> Yes, you're right. You're right. You're right. >> We don't have time at 39 to wait a year to make a$2 to3 bump. And Leo, what do you guys owe on your cars? What do you allow owning your cars? >> Uh, so, okay, so I own my vehicle that I

just purchased under a year ago, but it's giving me issues. So, getting a second job has been it's a possibility, but just for having >> No, no, no. See, that's the problem.

What is What does she What does she owe on hers? >> Her she owes 1,500 on her car.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. What uh what other debt do you guys have? Credit card. We have >> Wait, 1500 one credit total is what she owes. That's what's left on her loan for her >> Yes. Great. Yes. Great. Great. Great.

>> Our debt and credit is all we only have our credit card debt, which is $8,000.

>> Okay. Okay. Okay. So, tonight >> and that's all our debt. >> All your debt. That's great. That's awesome. Okay. So, I would cut up the credit cards. Don't even make it a temptation. Your goal for >> next have a balance on our credit cards.

>> Well, that's great. We'll cut them up anyways. I don't Well, you have a balance. You got $8,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, we don't have a thing available to to spend on it. So, you're right. Like, >> oh, it's maxed out. Perfect. You say that like that's a good thing. Can I just say >> it's not a good thing. Not a good thing.

I'm embarrassed about it. >> No, Leo. Okay. So, no. You're do This is great. Okay. So, here's what I want you to do when you get off this call. Okay.

You both need to apply for second jobs.

Your goal is to get a $1,000 emergency fund, okay? In the next 60 days, 30

days, 40 days, and catching up on rent.

Those are your two goals, emergency fund and catching up on rent with the second job. Should should help free up some of that cash. And then once that happens, you guys start paying off this debt.

Smallest to largest, the car and then the credit cards. You can do this, Leo.

Stay on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll give you some stuff.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsey Show where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win in your relationships.

Alongside Rachel Cruz, I'm Ken Coleman.

Happy to have you with us. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is8825-5225.

Meg is up next in Utah. Meg, how can we

help today?

>> Hi. Um, my fiance is asking me to spend

my life saving from before I met him

into renovating his parents' home.

>> Have you asked him if he's lost his ever loving mind?

>> Well, I saved the money for a car and we

had a baby. So, we live in said home. We

plan on purchasing at home, but we haven't done any of those things yet.

>> You just rolled right by my very pertinent and relevant question, Meg.

Your life savings. How much is that?

>> That's 30K.

>> Okay. And you just blitzed right by my question. I'm serious. What emotion, what thoughts entered your mind when this guy said this to you?

Uh, mixed emotions. One, I feel like if

I purchase the home first, I'd feel

better about spending my life savings on it. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I thought it was your I thought it was his parents' home. >> Yes, but then she said they're going to buy it. When are y'all going to buy it?

>> Well, we're looking at doing that last year. Um, but then his parents were feeling bad about the fact that it would cost me 30k to essentially buy the loan

once, you know, everybody's >> pay. Why are y'all doing this deal? I don't understand. Why don't youall just go buy a house?

>> Um, so where I live, um, 30K does not

really get you anywhere to purchase a home. The average home in our neighborhood is probably >> Are they giving you the home?

>> No. Okay. Like >> essentially giving us equity on the home.

>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. First of all, you guys are not married, so that's your money, not his money. And in no situation should you give your money to his parents to renovate a home that you may or may not have. This is going to turn into an absolute nightmare. What about the car? You've been saving up for a car that you need. Yes.

>> Yes. >> Like like how bad do you need this car?

Not super bad. I work remote. Um, >> but is your current car failing is what I'm getting at. >> Uh, no. I I have a lease and my lease ends in December and I'm not willing to

purchase. >> Do you Okay, this $30,000 is your money.

Full stop. Period. You need to use it for your stuff. Now, the day that he puts a a ring on your finger and you guys get married and you join finances.

>> When are you getting married? It's your fiance.

>> I don't know. I have a six-month-old at home. So, one day when I sleep at night.

>> One day when you can sleep at night.

>> And I'm assuming that's his baby.

Correct. >> He is. Yes. >> Why doesn't he have any money?

>> Uh, he does now. So, >> well then why does he need your money?

>> Um, well, he does now, but he has a lot

of credit card debt that he needs to take care of. Um, I was helping with that when I had a whole lot more money,

but I stopped working three jobs when I had a baby. So now we make about the same.

>> Okay. You called to ask us what we

thought about this. Correct.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I know what you thought about it.

You gave me the mixed emotions. Why don't you just tell us what you really felt? What did you feel when he hit you with that?

I felt like this is a dumb idea.

>> Great. You are correct.

>> Ding, ding, ding. >> That's what Rachel and I think. Oddly enough, >> Meg wins. >> Let me pull the audience out here. We got about 50 people out there. If you think this is a dumb idea, raise your hand. >> Everybody in the audience, >> we got we got a lot of hands raised.

Meg, >> there's your uh focus group.

>> So So number one, Meg, we do not combine

finances. We do not share finances. We do not pay on each other's debts and or homes or future-in-law homes. We do

nothing combining until we are married.

You have no financial

obligation to help him and you have no protection. If you guys were married and something happened, then we can get Utah State involved and we can figure that out with assets and everything, but you have no protection, Meg. Okay. So, number one, no combining finances.

Number two, it's I I would go this weekend, Meg. If you love him and you think he's the one, you got a six-month-old together, you're living together, I think you just go get a marriage license. Y'all need to get married. You need to start this life. You've you're in it. You're acting married. Just go do it. Do a wedding later, whatever the celebration is.

Like, you guys need to start actually living in the reality of which you live.

And so, if I were you, and if you love him, right, you want to marry him, right? >> I love him. I don't love how he handles money. Okay. Well, then there's a red flag. >> This is a great reason not to marry him.

>> Yes. >> Yes. Because then his debt is my debt and I've lived debt three.

>> Well, does he is he is he on board of

trying to get out of debt? Because you said you were trying to help him pay off debt and you gave him some money to pay off debt. Is he working his way out of debt?

>> He has some um what's what's a nice way

to say it? Uh interesting ideas on how to get out of debt. He has a philosophy of um my goal in life is that in one

year we don't have to have this conversation about money because I'll be making so much more that we don't have to worry about money every day.

>> This is what I thought in high school. I thought that one day I would be able to dunk a basketball. Just kind of thought it would happen. >> Never happened, Rachel.

>> And money magnifies the situation.

You're never not going to have to not talk about it because you make money.

>> Yeah. This guy, this is a tough situation.

uh you need to define the relationship.

This that's what needs to happen here.

Number one, no, I'm not giving you money. This is crazy. I don't feel comfortable marrying you until we get on the same page with money. So therefore, putting money into a future thing. No.

No. No. Love you. No.

>> Did I mention that I love you? No. All right. That's first thing.

And and and I'm not kidding. I I actually don't want you to go down to the courthouse. And Rachel doesn't either now. >> No, I don't.

But I hate that you guys have a six-month old. I mean, like, you know, the my my hope is that we don't want to further complicate it. >> No, we don't. But I do hope that you guys work to mend this for the sake of the six-month old and for your for your futures together.

>> I agree. Well, if if I had him on the phone, I go, "Do you love this woman?" And hopefully, he'd say yes. And I go, "Why don't you throw out all your cockamame ideas that don't require you to do hard work and work for a while to get successful? And why don't you ask your fiance what she thinks about money and why she thinks about money?" >> Because she has $30,000 >> because she's doing it better than you, Sparky.

>> And so, you know, that that's what needs to happen. He needs to man up, you know.

>> Yeah. And for the most part is okay. I

mentioned I can just manage money. I'm great at managing money. I'm great at saving money. I can get us wherever we want.

>> Well, then tell him if he wants to marry you that you're going to manage the money and he's going to be in the budget meeting, but he's going to sit there and he's going to learn, right? Like if he's willing to let you, if he's willing to marry you and we now adopt your money principles, if this guy's really willing to do it, which by the way, >> he would need to show that to you.

>> So, >> yeah, >> Meg, I'm sorry. >> I tried Yeah, I tried to have those conversations. It's just >> Yeah. Well, maybe he needs to know that you're not going to stick around.

>> You know, define the relationship.

>> Rachel, what do you think? >> Don't give him money. That's my number one. Me, >> you're not crazy or mean by not putting your $30,000 into his parents' home.

>> You know, I was going to ask James if I should get ordained so I could marry couples on the spot for future situations like this, but now married.

>> Now, I would have said no, Meg. >> We would have not. >> No marriage.

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>> Today's question comes from Renee in New York. Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young?

Isn't it better for them to work, live at home, and save their money so they can buy a place to live when they move?

Why move out to pay a landlord for a place to live? How will they ever achieve the American dream of home ownership? If kids are working hard and saving, what's the advantage of moving out? There are other ways to achieve a sense of dignity and independence than throwing money away at rent every month.

>> Oh boy. Well, Renee, >> are you sure your name's not Karen?

Because that sounds a little woke to me.

>> I mean, this is why we have so many snowflakes because of this woman has

raised snowflakes.

>> That's my part of the answer. I I think that's it. What do you think? This is Okay. So, all right. So, okay.

>> Okay. So because it's not a math at that point it's not a math issue because there's something about and she says there's other ways to have dignity and independence maybe to a degree but there's also something about being a full >> what they clean their room >> they're cleaning their room you know uh when our maid service came in they commented about our oldest son Jimmy about his toilet was spotless

>> Jimmy he's doing great mom way to go I

mean this whole question is so I'm not listen this is pathetic >> and questions ends plural. There's like she's she's she's very mad. >> All right, I'll break this. Oh, well, she's getting me mad. Okay, here we go.

Why do you encourage kids to move out of their parents' home so young?

>> At any point on the show, has any one of us ever recommended that some kid move out in their teens?

The answer to that is no. Pull the archives. We're talking about people that are out of college and are old enough >> to live on their own and they have a job. And we say for a season they don't have a job, they need to move out >> and for a season it's okay. We're not like hardcore about it. But there is a point that that people that live with their parents for a endless amount of time to quote unquote just save money.

>> You lose the life lessons. You lose life. You lose and the dating thing too, Ken. I always go back to that. Could you imagine 26-y old guy >> and you're like, "Okay, uh, where should we go after dinner? You want to go see a movie? You got to go got to go to my parents house." There was a movie about this with Matthew McConn and Sarah Jessica Parker, one of my all-time favorite romcoms, incidentally. Um, >> Matthew McConna, what a gem.

>> And the whole thing is that the parents didn't want him to leave. And let me tell you something about Renee. Uh, Renee doesn't want her kids to leave.

And so, it's all in here. Let me let me go with this one. This was my favorite one here. Um, why move out only to pay a

landlord for a place to live? because that's what every other freaking American does until they can afford a home and it's called personal responsibility. But no, uh uh there are

other ways to achieve a sense of dignity

and independence. I mean, this has got a little bit of like Ben Franklin to it.

Like she's really pinning this away. And then uh uh uh then throwing your money away on rent every month. And I'm going to let you because you're so much nicer than me. Why do we think that renting is not throwing money away? >> Yeah. >> I I don't want you to say more. >> Yeah, you're buying time. You don't own, so you're not like responsible for every expense. And home ownership is expensive. So, rent for a little bit.

>> Yeah. There, man. >> There's no dignity or independence.

>> If you can afford to move out >> and you got a job and just come on, I'm so tired of all >> for a short period of time, I'm okay with it, right? Like, if you graduate college, you need six months at home to figure out a place to live and like I get that. Like, that is fine. It's not that legalist, >> but this endless amount to just save

money and I'm going to go live >> at my parents 26 27.

>> And by the way, Renee says it. She goes, "Until they have enough for a down payment." Well, okay. Let's run the numbers on that. >> That's not a two-year play.

>> No, >> just if you look at housing. So, that's why some of you who hear me and you're now offended by me. Uh, one, I don't care. And two, I'm actually basing on real numbers based on this woman's question. You do not have a one year or

a year and a half or twoear scenario.

This is going to be years in the making with them living in the nest. And this is the real issue. A lot of parents don't want their kids to leave. >> Yeah. >> Because they don't Now, now I'm really >> Oh, I can't wait. >> You know why? >> Codependence. What? >> It's it's a form of codependence, but they do not like the life that they will have when the kids are gone. that they're holding on for their own >> worried about what life is like with their spouse when the kiddos are gone.

They have they have I'm just telling you that's what it is.

>> And those little moms, which I'm a mom of a little boy. I get it.

>> You want Charles living with you when he's 24. >> Well, not for his sake, but I do help him a lot more than I at this age.

>> Why is that? >> I don't know. He's just so sweet. I put I put >> your girls are darling, but why do you why do you Prince Charles? >> I don't know. It's a mother son thing. I don't know. But I will I will go above and beyond for now more so than the girls. >> But >> bottom line is we don't kick people out.

It's not our decision. We're we're just hosting a show that you listen to. You do what you want. But we don't for we don't tell people to kick their kids out. >> And I think one of the top three for me besides it's the it's the romantic relationships. I'm not going to lie.

That it's one of the I think it's a very unattractive thing.

>> What do you mean? >> If you were if I was single and dating >> Oh, yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? >> And the dude's living with his parents. >> Yeah. Yeah. in vice. I don't know.

>> You might as well have a giant sweatshirt that says loser on it.

>> Which, by the way, based on the last call, I want to circle back to this because there are people that are watching and listen. I'm going to be serious for a moment, okay? There are people that are watching, listen to us, and we are we we blown away that you let

us into your ears and and and give you

advice. But I want to say this just because I'm I'm now I'm that guy.

>> I love it. Go, Ken. >> I'm 51. If you are a woman and you are

single right now and you are dating a dude who you are attracted to, I don't care what the reasons are, but you know somewhere in your gut that he doesn't have his act together.

Would you please have the dignity to press pause and put it on the line for him and go, "I'm concerned." Because if you follow your heart and don't listen to your gut and you marry a loser or you

have a baby with a loser because you're not responsible enough to protect that romantic moment, you are gonna pay big-time financial and emotional consequences. So, we just don't say it enough. I just want to go listen, ladies. Listen to your heart.

Get some guys in I mean to your gut and get some people in your life who go, "He's a really attractive, charismatic

loser." >> But it's the last word that's the operating word. Rachel, I'm You know what I'm saying? Like I'm not angry. I'm not But I mean, >> yeah, >> please. These romantic decisions lead to

massive relationship and financial decisions. >> Yes. Yes. >> Please like >> 100%. Don't Don't hop in the sack with a loser. It's This is a great life rule.

>> That's all he wanted to say. >> Is it not a good rule to live by?

>> Yeah. >> By the way, goes for guys, too.

>> Probably very old school in that scenario. So, >> don't hop in a sack with a woman that's crazy.

>> Cuz then you procreate create crazy

>> and then you're stuck with it. I mean, it's like this show is about winning with money. Here's one of the rules.

Don't procreate with crazy. Don't live with somebody who's a loser.

>> You would be surprised at how wealthy you could become. >> I do think you What? >> Am I right? >> Well, yes, cuz we get these calls a lot from the from the relational side.

>> Yeah. And it's all back to those two >> and they and they tell us scenarios and we're like, >> "What are you doing with them or her?" Like she's she sounds terrible or he sounds terrible. >> And I think either number one, you just don't have people in your life that are going to say it >> or there's not enough. You're so deep in it that there's no mirror. You can't see out of it. You don't see a difference. You need someone else, which is why they're calling two strangers, right?

Which we appreciate. Yeah.

>> Um, >> by the way, >> to be able to to Yeah.

>> You hear it in their voice. You go, "Why are you with them?" And they're kind of like, and here's what happens when you sell your dignity for companionship. you sell your gut, you sell your values, any of those scenario, when you sell that for that emotional feeling that that person provides, you are setting yourself up for relation and relational and financial disaster. So, somebody had to

say it. I I think this is life skills 101. What I just said there is not new, nor is it that deep. But boy oh boy is it right. >> Common sense not so common anymore.

>> Not anymore.

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Uh Mark is joining us now in Birmingham.

Mark, how can we help?

>> Hey, I appreciate you guys taking my call. How's it going? >> We're doing well, sir. How are you today? >> Pretty good. Pretty good. So, just to get right into it, um uh I'm preparing

to get my debt snowball rolling. And um

I have uh I have roughly like 10 to 11,000 in debt. It's not credit cards or vehicle payments. Um it's like just personal debt. And >> how much did you say? How much?

>> Between 10 and 11,000.

>> Okay. And I have a pay 9,600 of it is is is um

it's the IRS. I have a payment arrangement with them like 205 a month.

>> Okay. >> And the rest is like personal debt. Um my wife has student student loans like 23,000. I pay all the bills. Um I take

home like 4,300 a month.

>> Um and I take care of everything. Her money is her money to me. And um so my question is uh do I focus on on just my

debt and then like move on to the next baby steps and you know start uh investing in um the emergency fund and then like you know trying to save for a home or do I include her debt um with

mine all at once? You get what I'm saying? >> Yep. I do know what you're saying. Um, my question to you is why don't you guys

combine finances and have a checking account where all of your money goes in and you guys decide how to best use the household money?

>> Uh, just I mean just being honest is because of that IRS like when we got married. Um, I was a I was an owner operator for for like I was driving trucks. I still drive trucks, but at the time I was an owner operator and I told her I was being straight up with her like look uh you know I got this issue with the IRS so she didn't want to file jointly >> because of that if she didn't want to you know kind of I guess jam herself up but uh I do like we do have a joint account where I I deposit all the money like and then like she can pay bills out of and stuff like that.

>> Okay. Well, if you guys combine a checking account, that doesn't affect the IRS.

>> Right. It was It was just me being irresponsible. I mean, it wasn't her money. It was uh >> No, I know. I know. But that's what I'm saying though is if you guys combined finances into a checking account and saw it as a household budget, the IRS isn't affected by that. That that doesn't change your taxes. So, I'm just curious

>> if Yeah. Yeah. If everything's in the same checking account, that doesn't change your taxes. So, >> Oh, so even if we file, like even when we >> Well, how you file your taxes would would be one thing.

But you guys, how where your income goes, your paychecks, where they go when you're paid, the IRS doesn't care about that. So, if you guys are in one account, you're you're a household account. Now, how you file your taxes, whether individual or or married filing jointly, that's, you know, that's different.

everything what that shows is number one that we are a team and this household that we are running together as a married couple. You get further with your financial goals faster and you actually end up having a better marriage because of it because you lean on each other, you trust each other, communications opened and you see yourselves as one. So there's a financial benefit to it, but there's also a relational emotional benefit to say, "Yeah, we're we're married." Like when we said yes and I do and put rings on and created this covenant between us, we're sharing our lives.

Like this is everything. You know, we are all in this together. So um that may take some conversations to kind of get her around to that idea, but that would be the ultimate goal for me for you guys, Mark, is to say, "Yes, we are one." And so how So if that was the case, you bring home 43 a month.

>> Uh, she has a small business. Um, she

has she makes and produce her own skin care products. I don't know how much she makes a month. I just know like a year is like five between 5 and 10,000. Um,

like I said, I take care of everything. So, I just kind of like stay out her stay out of her business. >> How much How much does >> she makes? 10,000 a year. 10 to 25,000.

>> No, no, no. Between five and 10,000 >> a year.

>> Yeah. For her? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's not a lot of money. >> Why? Yeah. Why is she not working?

>> Uh because we have we have uh we have three kids and another one on the way.

>> Okay. So, she's more of a stay-at-home, >> right? Right. >> Okay. >> Okay. Well, then that means I mean I mean honestly, Mark, at that point, it's like 800 bucks a month that she So, it's not even that much that she's going to have to quote unquote merge with you.

It's not, you know what I mean? Like, it's you guys together. It's not like she's got a job making 80,000 and she's like, "This is mine. This is yours." And there's kind of a harder emotional So, I just kind of leave it, you know, I just take care. I just leave it. >> So, you Okay. So, that's kind of like her. Okay. Yep. Well, that $800 that she makes a month, eight eight to a,000

could be very beneficial in this in these baby steps, right? So, you guys could look at that to say people go and try to find an extra job to get $1,000 a month. And as a stay-at-home mom, that's what she's doing, which is awesome. So, >> $9,600 right there.

>> Yeah. So, what I would do is I would uh the IRS debt needs to be cleaned up first. So the so the 9600 from the IRS I

would clean that out. We usually say Mark smallest to largest debt but the IRS gets a pass to the front because we want them out of your lives. So the 9600

um I would Yep. pay that off. And again if you guys can work together you could have this paid off in seven to eight months just even with with what she's bringing in. Um, but that gets knocked out and then I would be and then you have what probably about 400 left. Is that what you said? Because it was 9,600 and you have 10,000.

>> Right. Right. Just personal debt.

>> Okay. So, get that 400 cleaned up. Um, and then Yes. And then you guys together attack that 23,000 of her student loans.

So, I want your household debtree and then we will move on to a household emergency fund with 3 to six months of expenses. So, um, okay. So for you,

Mark, how much? So you you bring home4,300. How much is rent or mortgage?

How much are you guys paying in that a month? >> Uh yeah, I'm renting right now and it's 1320. >> 1320. Okay. Um All right, that's good.

Yep. So yeah, this is um and honestly too, Mark, I mean it this idea of

getting out of debt and getting this emergency fund in place, if you've been listening to us any amount of time, I mean it is it is scorched earth. It is extra jobs. It is like getting this done

>> ASAP. Really, really, really, really, really fast. >> On that point, what do you do for a living? >> I drive trucks. >> Okay. Is is that skill is there, is

there a way for you to pick up a decent amount of hours where it's actually going to make a difference just with the truck driving skill?

>> Uh, I mean, not at this job. I do something on the side, but um it's not something I I report. I didn't really include it in in my, you know, my overall >> Okay. What do you do on the side? >> What do you do on the side and how much?

>> It's like waste management, some like, you know, like junk removal type stuff.

I have a pickup truck.

>> Yeah. >> If I'm if I'm hustling like I should, then I could I mean, I can make like 2,000 easy a month.

>> 2,000. >> That's great, Mark.

>> Mark, buddy, that's the play cuz you're Listen, your wife's busy, man. She got two and one on the way and and you know, there's just not a whole lot of margin there. And that's something you all decided. Love that.

>> Uh 2,000 bucks a month could turn into

4,000 bucks a month if you you're hustling and you figure out a way to scale yourself. I like that play a lot,

>> you know. >> Yeah. Yeah, for sure. >> Like I'm Mark, I'm telling you, that's a great opportunity. See, not look >> and you're a hard worker. I appreciate that about you, Mark. I mean, you're you're not scared of hard work.

>> Love it, Mark. Get after it, man. and then scale yourself, you know, >> him like own his own thing one day.

>> That's what I'm getting at. Mark may be surprised where this could go, you know?

>> Yeah. You're making 4,300 driving trucks. And like Ken saying, if you could make 4,000 doing >> doing this, I mean, >> I'd find some high school guys, some college guys in the summer that want some good money hourly and you're just loading them up. No pun intended.

>> That could be fun. That's a fun dream. Sit down with your wife tonight, Mark. We're going to give you every dollar >> and you guys create a household budget.

both of your incomes go in and just start to dream. Seriously, dream how fast could we get out of debt? What would it look like for Mark to own his own business? I like it.

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All right, let's go to Susan in Missouri. Susan, how can we help?

>> Um, yes. Uh, thank you so much for having me on the show today. Um, my boyfriend and I are going to be starting FPU soon, and we're both really excited.

Uh when we start this, my boyfriend's going to be able to knock out the very little debt he has just right out of his checking account and probably be in about 75% into a six-month emergency

fund. >> Wow. Great. >> Yeah, he's he's doing wonderful. Uh me, unfortunately, uh I'm not that great. Um I got divorced about eight years ago and I just in a bad place. I relied heavily on debt and credit cards and I've got about 90,000 um in debt. Okay.

>> 57 of that's student loans. I've got a a

vehicle loan for 17 and the rest is like a personal loan and I got about 5,000 on a credit card I'm still working on.

>> Okay. >> Um we got some short-term and long-term goals together. Our shortterm goal is uh

we want me to be able to stay at home with a baby someday.

>> And given my age, we are actually seeing a fertility doctor now for some help with conceiving. And uh my boyfriend wants to help me pay off my debt and make sure we're in the place for me to stay at home when that when our prayers are answered. And I know we aren't married yet, but it's definitely happening soon. Sooner than later, he asked me my ring size like it's going to happen. So I didn't know with our given situation. Would this be okay?

>> No.

>> Yeah. Can Can you explain I tried to explain it to him last night and I and u

wait I know I can't articulate it good enough. >> Okay. So, wait a second. This is his idea.

>> He Yes. He wants to help me. And he's been I mean, he's been such a blessing to my daughter and I like I get it. So,

let me ask you, what did you say to him? I want to know what Susan tried to explain. So, you knew we were going to say no, didn't you? >> Oh. Oh, I definitely knew you guys were saying. >> I'm very glad I'm actually talking to you all, not Dave.

>> Tell us why. >> We are so nice. >> I'm kidding. Susan, intimidating. No, but I love his advice. I love it all.

>> I know. So, Rachel's she's gone. Okay.

So, what what was your explanation? Give us the summary of how you explained >> why the answer is no. >> I just know the data shows that you know when you're married you're you're the data just shows that. See, I can't articulate it very well. Um and just biblically biblically.

>> Okay. you. But but then also on my side,

I did all the right things that first marriage and it still didn't work. And I'm like I'm happy. I'm safe. I'm secure. >> Like I I'm not I don't want to push it too much. I mean I'm I'm mentioning it every once in a while like hey we've been together three and a half years.

>> Yeah. And y'all are seeing a fertility specialist Susan. I'm like you guys are about to start a family. So like >> we got the cart literally before the >> You're not crazy. You're not like out of the blue. feel like marriage is a big

ring. >> I married him last year with a bread tie, but he's just >> So I Yeah. So >> I like that. >> So the order So So there's a couple of big events happening in your lives and you called us so we'll give you our thoughts. Ken, I'll give you mine said no. >> And if you disagree with what I'm about to say, my order of events, >> I like this. Um, I don't mind you seeing a fertility specialist and be talking through, but I would not be going forward with anything big decision-wise

until you're married. And so, because we've talked to already one person on the show that has a six-month-old with a fiance who she's about to break up with, I think, cuz Ken was like, "He's a loser. He's terrible. He's not great." And I know your fiance or your boyfriend is different, >> but I'm just saying life happens. Things

happen. We get calls on this show all the time and it's just it's it's relationships that end up >> Why are you okay? I'm sorry. I was quick. I I thought I was going to agree with you. I'm not sure I'm on board with her going through the fertility doctor

conversation without a ring on my dying.

>> I know. So, he needs to step up. Tell him that. >> I know.

Well, I'm okay with I'm okay with like I'm not I'm not I'm okay with them interviewing doctors and like asking the question because they're about to be engaged. I wouldn't go I wouldn't go forward. If she wants to freeze her eggs, she can, but I wouldn't actually do anything fertility wise until they're married. >> My concern is is if you go do that, it's a slippery slope.

>> It could be. So, y'all need to get married, Susan.

finances, baby, and the baby finance thing can happen >> right right away. Okay. So, what I would do if I were you guys is to say, and hopefully out loud y'all are saying, "Yes, we're going to get married." Right? Like that's a conversation that's being said.

>> Um, and do you know I know he asked for a ring, but do you guys say like, "Oh yeah, by the end of the year we'll be married." Like do do y'all have >> a timeline? >> Um, no, not really. I mean, we >> So, we need a timeline. >> The other night and we don't need anything big like >> Great.

So, >> so we need a timeline. >> I could marry you guys on the show.

>> Ken really wants to marry someone.

>> I got to do it. >> Okay, so y'all need to make it. This is what I'm in Nashville now. So, number one, I would do timeline of wedding. End

of the year. I don't know, it's August. Let's by December, we're getting married. Okay. Yeah. >> And then in December, financially, where's everyone at in December? He has paid off his debt. In December, he's going to have I'm making this up. Susan, $30,000 of debt or I'm sorry, of of cash, $40,000 in his emergency fund. I don't know. >> He's going to have this. Susan's going to have worked and Susan is going to pay off her credit card debt by by December.

>> 5K in credit card. Susan's going to be kind of working through the next debt like you know where are you going to be Susan >> in December and then when you guys get married >> now how much of the money that he has saved cuz he's going to go right back to baby step two once you guys say I do and you guys are going to work to pay off the rest of your debt but he will use his savings to do that >> after you're married. >> How much does he have? >> Okay.

saved up now. >> Okay. So, so by December, >> what's your car worth? I know you owe 17. >> 17. Well, I don't know. It's probably worth about as much as I owe now.

>> Okay. >> And how what do you guys make a year combined?

>> Um, he actually just had to take a pay cut with a promotion, which is crappy, but it's okay. Um, he makes 95 now.

>> Do what? >> Yeah.

>> Um, >> 95. >> He makes about 95, and then >> I'm going to be making probably around 45 if I get to keep the overtime. time I've been putting in if not >> What do you do? >> 40. >> What do you do? >> I'm I'm actually working at just like a manufacturing plant making brackets right now. It pays better than than anything. I I went to school, got a bachelor's degree, but I have no idea what to do with it. >> What did you get a bachelor's degree?

>> Yeah. Well, I got you. I'm going to give you >> I wanted I wanted to be a teacher and then last minute I was like, I don't want to be a teacher. And so I asked my adviser, what can I do with the credits I have to still graduate? And so I have a inter discip interdisciplinary studies, >> the biggest croc of crap in the history of education. >> Yeah. Yeah, I got it. Okay.

>> I should have just never went to college. >> Hey, can I give you a pre-wedding gift?

I'm going to give you my book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Assessment in it. It's only takes about 18 to 20 minutes. Please take it.

>> I promise you.

>> I promise you it'll give you some clarity going forward. And if we got to get you back on the show another time to talk about your results, that's fine.

But um you you need to be figuring out

what can I do? And I think there's a lot more that you could do than you realize.

I love, by the way, I want to applaud you. I love that you're in a manufacturing plant and you're putting brackets together. I I actually >> I've never done this before, but I'm killing it. I I actually like it.

>> I You know what? And that that made my day, actually. I'm There's no shame in that. >> No.

And she wants to stay home eventually with the baby. So, I hope you guys get married in December. I hope you get pregnant. And I hope by a year from now >> make some more brackets and then make some babies.

>> There we go. >> That's and I want y'all debtree and you can do it all. And I that's what I hope for you Susan. But but again the order is really important and where people screw up not just from like a biblical sense right.

I mean that's that's totally fair. But from the data, like what you're saying, when people mess up this order, it it gets it gets really difficult from a financial standpoint to start to win because things happen in life and we want to just safeguard and be wise.

>> I think some of his I think some of his hesitation is like he just recently kind of got his life together. He's always had amazing work ethic, made six figures, if not close to, but he he struggled with addiction. And so I mean up until about 2 and 1/2 years ago he was spending anywhere from 800 to 1,000 a week on his addiction. And so he's been two two and a half years clean.

He's like I just want to get better.

Yeah. Like are you all doing premarital counseling?

>> We're I mean we're going to We went to some counseling when he was struggling and I told him, "Hey, get clean or I'm gone." >> Yeah. >> Um and he did and >> that's great. Yeah. So you guys can take your time, but don't jump the don't jump the baby before the the wedding either.

Okay. >> Uhhuh. So be wise. Thank you so much. Be wise. >> Yeah. Appreciate you. Wow.

>> It's back to my rant earlier. Just be careful, folks. Careful who we're married.

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This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. The lovely, the talented Rachel Cruz joins me. 88 8255225.

We're here for you. Let's get going.

We've got Gary. I hope I'm saying that right. In California. Gary, how can we help?

>> Yes, you did say that right. >> Well, you know, I'm hooked on phonics. A lot of people don't know this, but uh a lot of hard work there. Rachel, >> how can we help today?

>> Um, so I think we're gonna continue the theme with marriage. Um, but it's not my

result of my marriage. No, >> my mom. So, >> yeah. Yeah. So, um I'm going to try to make it very clear because it's kind of a messy situation, but my mom remarried when I was 10 and they broke up within

um the same year. And they've kept this on and off relationship of like I help you, you help me, but totally no benefits. Um and that just bled in over

the last 30 years. Can you tell us real quick what does that mean on they help each other? No benefit financially.

>> Financially like my mom's co-signed for cars. Um filled out forms for him. He'll

give her rides places.

Um >> so everything but

>> Oh, cats and dogs.

>> I see. I gota Okay. Friends, no

benefits. That's what you're saying.

>> Yeah. Ah. Well, then he went and adopted a son when uh I was 20 years old, so that was about 20 years ago. And um she

became the babysitter and just

>> this is just a absolutely zero boundaries weird situation. We got it.

>> Yes. Okay. >> Yes. Um so I decided my mom did too, but

for her own reasons, I decided about a year and a half ago to no longer be active in their lives. Um because

>> there's no boundaries and >> uh you know my husband and I worked to the baby steps years ago when we've worked hard to get to where we're at.

We're not wealthy but we're very comfortable. >> Good. >> And um I don't know I mean they've never

asked me for money but they you know just gave you a snapshot of their financial picture. They're on my stepdad's on disability and they live in housing and they don't want to help themselves.

They >> not together. Correct. Are they living together?

>> Yeah. Yeah, cuz it's his son. But >> so they live together.

>> Not my mom. Not my mom.

>> Okay. The stepdad and the son. Okay. I'm sorry. >> Oh, okay. All right. Sorry. I was in the same confusion. Okay. All right.

>> Yeah. Sorry. >> No, you're good. You're good. >> Um, so >> yeah, but they she recently just stopped deciding to help him with with stuff and >> Yeah. So, she's put up a boundary. And so, what's what's the question for you?

So his his stepson who considers me his big sister, which I feel really bad about because I don't feel the same, um reaches out every so often, wants that relationship, begs us to call and speak with him. And for me, I'm just I their

financial storm, their emotional storm keeps bleeding over into our lives. And I just I can't carry it anymore. And I don't know >> as a Christian like that's really hard for me to accept that it's okay but

>> mean okay I love your heart. Let me ask this how is it how is the your stepdad and

the steps and his son how is their financial situation bleeding over into your life you and your husband how is that specifically happening?

So, one big and what made me really make the decision just to at least take a break at the very least, um I I helped

them find housing, a place that accepts housing. And I got it through a friend's mom. Um they broke the rules and they

got evicted and this is in in the middle of tax season. I'm a preparer. He's

demanding that I go find him and you >> Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Got it.

>> And I said, "That's not my problem. You broke the rules." >> Yeah. I don't even have time even if I wanted to. >> Right. I'm in the busiest season of my entire career. Yeah. >> Now, okay. I just wanted to know uh Yeah. I I um And this is the stepdad that did this >> and not technically even your stepdad, right? I mean, like there's not even like a legal I mean, they haven't even been together for 20 30 years.

>> And when they were, it wasn't even it was within a year. Yeah. Um >> it sounds like your mom's >> unhealthy relationship with him has now become your unhealthy relationship with this man. You know what I mean? It's not even like a >> but now the stepdad or whatever this dude whatever we're going to call him.

He he has honored the boundary but it sounds like his son is the one that's just calling you just relationally.

>> How old is he? The son >> he's now 19. Um >> does he ask for money?

>> No. No. Is he manipulative in the middle? >> Yeah. But is he manipulative in any way?

>> I think emotionally because he want he's like can you call and talk to him? He really want to talk to you. He's sad >> and I know he's playing the party over the triangle. >> I knew there was a reason >> and he probably isn't meaning to. He doesn't know. He's a 19-year-old kid with his dad, right? I'm like, he doesn't know any better.

>> Well, I I Rachel's probably better at this, so I'll get out of her way.

>> Well, I just I Here's the thing. I think it's okay for you to tell the young man why you want to put a boundary up.

>> And I think you just I don't think you smooth talk it. I think you just go, "Hey, you're stuck in the middle and I'm

sorry. >> Um, this is not your fault, but and I

don't want to say anything that makes your your your dad look bad >> for my reasons. It has nothing to do with you. I need a boundary of separation um in talking to you about

the family stuff because if he were to just call you >> and probably say, "Hey, how's how's everybody doing?" And it was just relational. I have a hunch that you might be okay with that. Correct.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> But you might. >> No, I don't think she really care. I mean, I mean, I don't think she cares.

>> Okay, great. >> And that doesn't make you a bad person. I just think it's this random guy that your mom's attached to adopts this guy

and now he's like, "What is happening?

This is not my life. >> I can't have a relationship with you.

just say, "I can't have a relationship with you, and I'm really sorry for for where I'm at in my life." Just you don't have to explain it, by the way, because he's not going to like it. That's why I was mining to see. Is it Is it that you just don't like when he talks about the dad stuff? Cuz that's >> right. That's right. That's right. >> But if it's just I don't need this relationship, you tell him.

>> There's a great book. I don't know if we have it. Do we have boundaries by Henry Cloud on site? We do not. You need to get the book Boundaries by our good friend Dr. Henry Cloud. Uh there's I tell you what, while you're at it, buy Necessary Endings. Read both of those books together and he will literally in that book coach you through it. >> Jerry, do you do you and your husband have kids? >> Um >> yeah, we have a 10-year-old and a four-year-old. >> Okay. Um Man,

>> what do you think? What?

>> No, I don't think it's too harsh. I mean, I think there has to be a I think um I think it would be cruel to just ghost him, right? I mean, >> I think you do have to Tell them and just tell them the situation, Jerry, of like, hey, listen, >> I and just, you know, and it's going to be awkward. It's going to be hard.

Write it out if you have to to kind of stick to a script because you feel bad for the kid, right?

um you know between two married people and kid I mean I I don't know but that's not your responsibility. So hear me say that you don't have responsibility in this. This is strings from your mom's >> to hear >> yes from your mom's unhealthy relationships that have woven into your life and to cut those >> is totally fair. Um, but I think too

having the heart and the spirit to say, you know, God, if there is a place in the future and if I'm supposed to be in his life, continue to open doors, soften my heart. And you may have a change of heart later in life, but right now, you got two kids. You're both working full-time. And yeah, I I I think that

that's fair. It's going to be an awkward, hard conversation. We're >> with you, Gary. You're a good person. Do what's right for you.

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Okay, folks. Big news. just uh boy, I

guess it was Tuesday earlier this week, we launched the Ramsay Show Live. That

means we're going out on the road, taking the show to Chicago and Orlando.

And I've got uh right here, fresh off

the presses. This is real paper.

>> Ken's favorite thing to do. >> Favorite sound of all time.

>> Just >> team hates it. >> The listeners hate it, but Ken says it.

>> The listeners don't. >> Yeah, they do. They comment, Ken.

>> Do they really? I think I think someone said they comment about the noise. Is this true? >> I'm not even going to do it. >> I'm sorry. Rush Limbaugh made it famous.

I don't care. I like it.

>> Uh but Orlando and Chicago both sold out. Our two They're done. >> We're going two cities. Uh and they are sold out. So if you wanted to see us in Chicago on the 30th of September, sold

out. Uh Orlando sold out. So here's what

we want to know. Uh, and when we posted uh George and and you and I are in

Chicago together, >> George, John, Jade in Orlando. And when we posted our social media thing, it was fun. People were jumping in the comments telling us what city they wanted to come to. So, here it is. Where do you want us to come to next?

>> Where do you want? You got to tell us.

Give us some feedback. >> Let us know in the comments. >> You want us to come to the Big Apple? >> We'll go. >> We like it. Start spreading the news.

>> A little San Diego. >> Leaving today. >> A little >> No bugs in San Diego. I like San Diego.

>> We'll go San Diego. >> Uh Dallas. >> We'll go Phoenix. >> You know Oh, I love Phoenix.

>> We can go Phoenix. >> Listen, get a good football team. Maybe I go to Dallas. All right. Sorry, that was that was unnecessary.

>> Vegas.

>> We can see the Backstreet Boys.

>> Backstreet's back. All right. >> They uh launched more dates in February.

>> Of all the shows to see in Vegas, that's not one I would choose.

>> It will change your life.

>> I I remember that era. It was a good era. It's a good era, but I don't know that I'd want to see that one. But I don't know. >> I'll play some videos at the break. >> Okay. Oh, yeah. Rachel just returned. I'll bring you in. By the way, girls trip. >> So, go to ramseyolutions.com/events

and click on the link uh or click on the link in the show notes. Um, and we want you to tell us this is your chance to

vote, America. Do you want us to come to your city? And who wouldn't want me and Rachel and George to come do what we do?

It's just going to be so much fun. I can't wait. By the way, fun story. We posted uh that we were coming to Chicago and I put on there bring the deep dish in the video and uh can I tell you Maladis is bringing deep dish pizza to

the Chicago show. >> They reached out. >> So, this could turn into a thing where we go to a city and I basically beg for free food >> cuz I'm not above it. I like free food.

So Ken likes free stuff.

>> I do like the free stuff. I can be bought. This just if anybody's wondering, I can. Uh so there you go.

It's going to be a lot of fun. What cities is there a city you would like to go to? If Rachel, what would be your top three? I'll go back to Vegas. >> Vegas is one. Give me two more. Give me Give me Vegas. >> Uh I'll go New York. New York City.

>> I like that. >> And uh let's go uh Kansas City. Maybe

get a little Taylor spotting.

>> Really? >> I don't know with Travis. I don't know.

Can't. Nobody wants to go to Kansas City. >> Kansas City is a great city.

>> It's a great city. I'm kidding. I just wanted to create some fake controversy. I love Kansas City. Barbecue's amazing.

Love Kansas City. Love to go there.

Everybody don't get offended. I was just kidding. >> Oh, Packers. Oh, they want us to go.

>> Green Bay. Now, that one I might have to actually say no to.

>> Who? Green Bay. There's like one thing to do in Green Bay. >> They live there. >> I know. I'm giving him a hard time.

>> Absolutely. I'm giving him a hard time.

absolutely offensive to people sitting right there. >> I kid. I kid, but it's not a top five,

right? I'm going to go. >> It'd be my fourth. >> I'm going to go uh New York. I'm going to go Miami. >> Ah, great one. >> And um let's go Northeast. I love Boston. That's my three. Just to mix it up. >> We're already in New York. We're kind of already Northeast. >> Dude, now you're getting in hot water.

You don't tell Bostononians that New York and Boston are two. They're just very different cities. I know they're different cities, but you the region is the same. >> What's easier to get there? We do New York one night. >> Going up to Boston. >> They have some chia.

>> Okay. >> What? >> They're telling us to go to callers. Come on. You're talking too long.

>> I'm really not. >> It's the end of the week. >> It's fine. America loves it. Andrew is up in Jacksonville. Andrew, how can we help?

>> Um, my father is uh in bad health and he

has a vehicle loan. Um he he has not

driven in a few months and he is now confirmed that he's probably never going to drive again. >> I'm sorry, Andrew.

>> Thank you. Um he owes 168 on it.

>> Uh I've taken it to a few lots. CarMax

offered like nine 9,000. Uh my mother

who is in good health is a co-barorrower on it, but she has her own vehicle that's working fine. And so in situations like this, what do you do with this vehicle?

>> Well, I wonder what a Have you Kelly blueooked it? Because your CarMax and all those other places and mostly dealers, they'll try to buy it at wholesale. Um, >> yeah. >> What have you, Kelly blueooked it?

>> I have not. >> Okay, I would do that next. You're probably still going to be underwater for it. He probably will. Does he have um any other assets? What kind of money do your parents have?

Um, they're they're well off, I would say. I mean, I don't really know their financial situation, but >> Okay. So, I would retired. Um, he has a

really good life insurance policy.

>> Okay. >> Um, the medical team told us, you know, he has 3 to six months.

>> Oh my gosh, Andrew. I'm sorry.

>> Oh, >> I guess in this case, I would just choose the least amount of effort. Like at this point, you just don't want him your mom burning any calories of effort on something like, you know, with 3 to 6 months to go. For sure. >> If they've got cash. >> Yeah. So, I would just I mean, if they have 5 $6,000, I would just pay the difference and get rid of the car and just be done. Y >> got be done with it. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Um because because after he passes,

>> I mean, that debt will be still owed, right? Like it's going to have to true up with his estate and everything. Um so, you'll have to deal with it one way or the other. So, if they do have the cash, >> um, but I would go private sale. And again, Andrew, I would probably to Ken's point, put that maybe on you or one of your siblings to help sell.

>> Yeah, >> sure. >> Private party. Yeah. Um, and then Yeah, just take some of their cash and just do the difference. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Cuz again, I I this is all

like this is >> Yeah. Does he um But he has he has life insurance in place. How old is he?

76. >> 76. Okay. And your mom, are they do you

as their son and family, do you guys know? You said you don't really know their financial situation. Have you guys had any conversations? just I just know

with working with families after someone passes and dealing with the estate and dealing with passwords and I mean it's just there's a lot of information that happens and I just want to make sure you guys are as >> well informed just so that the grieving process um >> goes as you know simple as as possible without muddying with money and financial issues.

>> Right. Thank you for that. Well our ne so our next step is we have uh we have scheduled some time with an attorney next week. Okay. >> I do know that there is a trust, but we can't find dad's will. So, we're kind of

going through that process, but I know that his life insurance policy will pretty much take care of my mother and

everything for the remainder of her life. But, um, >> you know, I mean, like this, like again, this vehicle thing is kind of small small >> sure >> things, but it's a detail and I just didn't know what to do with it. >> Yep. Yep. So, yeah, that's what I would do. And if you guys can't find the will, if there has to be another one put in place, I would cuz just going through probate and everything, it just makes that that whole situation smoother. As much documentation as you guys can have.

Um, >> but I hate that this even has to be a conversation for you all. I I'm so sorry. >> I understand. But you know what?

It's uh I hope what I hope this conversation that we're having right now helps somebody else's listening. >> Yep. Amen. I appreciate that.

Oh, >> Andrew, you uh you're a strong young man. So sorry. I think I think at this stage it's u getting all the ducks lined up like we've been talking about and then you and family handle as much as that as you can so that you know quality of life is as good as it can be and let's celebrate and >> uh I I hate that you're going through this.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah. Thanks for peace because he's at peace. >> That's good to know. Y >> that's good to know. Wow. Thank you for calling and sharing that.

Heat. Heat.

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Heat. Heat.

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All right, let's go to the debtree stage in the lobby and we've got uh Michael and Stacy joining us. Hi guys, how are you? >> Hey Ken. Hey Rachel. How are you >> doing? Well, >> where are you guys from? >> Maryland. We're we're from Calbert County, Maryland. Right outside Washington DC. >> Okay. Very nice. Right there inside the beltway. Is that okay? Very nice. Okay.

Well, tell us uh you're here to do debtree scream. So, give us the stats.

How much did you pay off?

>> We paid off $651,000.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> Whoa. >> In about seven years.

>> Wow. >> Okay. >> All right. And what was the range of income? >> Uh we started around $200,000. Um and

then um what was it?

>> We went up to 346. >> Went up to 346. Um and then when we paid off the house, >> we back down to 223.

>> Oh my gosh. So, the house was part of it. >> We had a feel. >> Yeah. You gave away the the punch line.

>> We figured it was that much money.

>> If you said you had $600,000 of credit card debt, I would I've heard that on the show, you know. Just kidding. I'm kidding. >> Um, okay. But the house, you guys, unbelievable. Is that all the house or was there any consumer debt in that number? >> So, we had a paid for rental. Oh, no.

I'm sorry. We didn't have a paid for rental. We had a rental for 220,000. We had student loans for 20,000.

>> Okay. Uh, credit card 11,000, second mortgage for 60,000. The home was 340,000. >> Okay. Yeah. But you got But half of it was Yeah. Everything else.

How incredible. And seven.

>> Dave normally says, "I'm looking at weird people, but I don't think you're weird. I actually think you guys look very, very well adjusted." >> Oh, he's weird. That's funny. Stacy's like nerd. Michael's a little weird.

>> I was the nerd. >> Yeah, for sure. Well, you look fantastic. Uh, so what do you guys do for a living? because this income this this is interesting. 200 to 346 back down to 223. What do you guys do?

>> Yeah. Um so I'm a retired cop of 27 years. Um I got an encore job so I had the pension coming in plus my encore job >> and Stacy was uh >> I was a VP of communications and marketing um for an association and uh

>> nice. >> So what sort of happened was um you know we had three incomes. So we had a pension coming in, we had my my encore job. I'm a right currently I still have it. I'm a fraud investigator with the federal government. >> Well, that's fun.

>> Yeah. And then um you know her job. So we had three jobs, three incomes coming in, but um once we paid off the house um

she got to quit her toxic job. So Stacy,

>> oh man, >> how long ago was that? >> Um I left my last day was May 6th.

>> Okay. So this is fresh. Yeah.

>> That's why you look like you're levitating. >> Very. I'm still not It feels odd like I

still haven't >> Yeah, you're debt free and toxic company free. That's a That's a double whammy.

>> That's a double win. >> Yeah. >> I'm not sure what I'm gonna do with myself. So, I just I just bought your book because I'm like, well, now I'm going to see what else I'm wired for.

>> I'll read I can tell you what happened seven years ago that caused you guys to think, we want to pay all of this off plus the house, which is crazy.

>> I I literally was laying in bed one night and um like we make all this money. where is it all going? You know, and we're in debt. Um, what's going to happen to us in retirement? Um, and I literally was having like heart palpitations. >> And I I got on I got on the internet like how to get out of debt and guess whose face shows up as your dad. Papa Dave. >> That's right. Papa Dave showed up from the Google and winning the algorithms.

He's winning the algorithm.

>> So, he was yelling at somebody about, you know, having a a car. You know, I like the old Dave when he's yelling at people. But anyways, he's nice now. But you should be sitting next to him when he does it.

>> A lot of fun. Um >> Oh, you started watching like YouTube clips. Is that what or just >> got hooked on YouTube. >> Okay.

>> Um and then uh so I had a long commute to work. I worked in Baltimore from, you know, Calary County to Baltimore was like an hour and 15 minutes >> and I did that for, you know, quite a long time. >> By the way, that's literally the highway to hell. Can we agree?

That that area is just >> I mean, it's it's not, you know, it's not my favorite area. Right. I wasn't a cop. Well, that's a whole another story, but that commute.

>> Yeah, you have a different perspective on that statement. >> Listen, I could tell you stories, but it's going I'm going to go past the nine minutes, so >> keep going. >> Yeah. But I mean, during that during that drive, I was introduced to the podcast.

for to work and from work.

>> Oh wow. >> Oh my gosh. >> And that got you fired up. >> And that was seven years ago. So yeah, we're talking like like 2018ish. Do you

>> So, do you come home and tell Stacy about this guy who's yelling at people?

And Stacy, what was your reaction to this? >> Um, >> he kind of got into it before I did. He kind of had to convince me. But, um, cuz I was like, "Oh, who is this?" And what is this?

What? You know, >> but the more he started listening to it, I was like, "Oh god, this makes sense, right?" Like, "This really makes sense." And so, I kind of got on board. So, he was the instigator.

>> Yeah. So what do you tell people from your journey is the key to getting out of debt? >> You know um you know people come up and say you know the budget yes the budget is important and yes you know lifestyle changes and sacrifice is important but um one key thing I think is like people say oh obsession you're obsessed with this. It's a obsession is not a bad thing as long as you don't put it before God and your family.

You can get obsessed and focused on something to get it done. like maybe steps one, two, and three was like, you know, our my hair was on fire. >> Oh, that hold on. That might be a bad analogy.

Me and Dave have a lot of comment in there. But um steps one, two, and three like super focused, super conscious concentrated on, but steps four, five, and six, it's more like a like a long distance run, >> you know, and finally it's over, you know, this marathon's over. >> Okay. So, how many years was paying off the house?

>> and then you went into the house. So how long how long was that? What was the journey? >> Honestly we got we got into we got rid of the consumer debt fairly quickly like 18 months or something like that you know >> and then um the rest of it was all house.

>> Okay. So about the last 5 years or so was just thrown and what and how did you guys do it because people ask this a lot >> because people do it different ways. Did you guys do a specific, you know, extra mortgage payments like a goal per year or per month? Like what did that look like?

money, like Dave says, you have extra money coming in, throw it at the house, throw it at the house. So, any overtime money and also remember I got another job with the pension coming in. We didn't even touch the pension. >> We just whatever check came in at the beginning of the month, it just went straight to the house.

Straight to the house. Extra principal, extra. Yeah, that's nice. >> We took our foot off the gas.

I mean, baby steps four, five, and six. We took our foot off the gas. We went to like vacation and stuff like that. >> Yep.

Which you should do a little bit, which is great. Yes. >> Okay. And uh daughter over here.

Yes. >> How old is she? >> She is 14. >> 14. Yes. Come on. Come on. You're beautiful. >> I know. >> Beautiful. Taller than me. >> Who is this? This is >> I'm also wearing >> Quinn. Quinn. >> Quinn. Okay. >> How old is Quinn? >> Quinn's 14 years old.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Okay. She doesn't have a mic, so it's going to be hard, but I'll have your parents. What? What was the process?

>> What was >> having having a having a teenager in the house? >> How did all that work? Was all that >> How did the family dynamic work?

>> She was really kind of on board. I mean, she's still a teen, right? She still loves shopping and everything, but we all kind of gave up a little bit and sacrificed a little and um she definitely did her fair share of sacrificing >> clothing. Understood the budget.

>> Yes. >> Nails and y'all talked about it. It was open and you as a as a family this was the goal and as a family we were doing this >> and it was easier to talk about like >> giving her the perspective of this is why it's going to be worth it.

>> We are baby step millionaires, multi-millionaires now. So congratulations on that. Well, you set a great legacy and a great example for Quinn and hopefully um she'll find a debtree guy.

>> Oh, she already knows. Yeah.

>> I'm with you. I'm with you, Dad. I I feel you, man. I got it. All right.

Well, that is so cool. Well, you guys ready? Is Is she like the cool teenager?

I've got a 16-year-old. Are you going to really scream here or is this going to be cool? Quinn, >> they're asking if you're going to scream or you'd be too cool to scream.

>> Oh, I'm going to scream. Quinn, >> I love it. Okay. >> You love a dedicated team. >> Let's do it. So, we've got Michael, Stacy, and Quinn in the Annapolis uh

Beltway area of Maryland. paid off $651,000 over 7 years making from 200 up to 346

back down to 223 and they are free.

Let's hear your debtree scream.

>> Three 2 1 >> We're debtree.

>> Yeah. >> All right. Well done.

Very nice. She joined in.

>> So great. >> How fun. >> Oh my gosh. That's a lot of money. a lot

of money. >> And that's a long time. That's that's some perseverance right there. Yes.

>> And the obsession is what you got to do.

You got to stay focused. >> So great. >> Oh, and it's what they did. Incredible family. Absolutely incredible.

[Music]

Our [Music]

[Music]

scripture of the day comes from Proverbs 17:17.

A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for a time of adversity.

And our quote of the day, I think, was hijacked by Rachel Cruz, a well-known Swifty.

This is from her boyfriend, Travis Kelce. >> Oh, from Trav, >> one of the greatest tight ends of all time. Got to give him some love. He's not just her boyfriend.

>> Uh, if you don't care about the guy next to you, he says, one, you're a terrible

teammate. Teammate, actually. Two, you're never going to win.

There we go. >> Travis, way to go. >> Pretty uh life changing.

>> Thanks, Travis. Maybe Travis should stick to football and not quotes. I don't know. But uh it's good. There's some There's a nugget of truth there.

>> Melanie from Connecticut is joining us.

Melanie, how can we help?

>> Hi. How are you?

>> We're doing well. What's going on with you today? >> Good. Good. So, um I have a concern. Um

I have a situation I've been dealing with for a few years now.

uh and I'm at a point uh where I don't

know I don't think I'm okay with it continuing and I think it will continue and the basics of it is

um you know how can I get my husband to

get our older son to pay for his own bill. >> How old is your son? >> He just he just turned 21. Um I've been

asking my husband to you know get him to pay for his own bills. nothing else. His own bill since he was 18. He's fully he's been fully employed since he was 16. Um, you know, doesn't really manage

his money very well, gets into unnecessary debt. Um, you know, has been

having trouble keeping a job, will not

do, you know, my husband and I both have a full-time and then do part-time gigs.

Um, and he just cannot handle that. He's

not a student. And so because the bills

are not under his name when he doesn't have a job or he's undermployed

um it doesn't face him because they're under our name. >> What bills what bills does he have?

>> Car insurance and cell phone.

>> Does he live with you all?

>> He does. >> Okay. >> And he's been he's been full-time. So he starts at 16. I I feel like it's

relevant. So give me a little latitude here. Why is he full-time work at 16 and

not in high school?

>> No, no, no, no. He was he had his part-time job when he was 16. He graduated and has started fulltime.

>> Because that sounds responsible. I mean, you know what I mean? Like the trajectory sounds good. >> What kind of work has he been doing?

>> Um, he started with, you know, like coffee shops, then mechanic work. That

part is okay. The issue I find is that

because the bills are now under his names, the actual papers that coming under his name, he doesn't have the will

or willingness or need to pay them. And

my husband, you know, ask him to pay it.

I remind him, we fight about it. Nothing happens. >> All right. So, let me ask you this. If they're in his name, if he did not pay a cell phone bill, then they would turn the cell service off. Yes.

>> Correct. >> So, why don't we just let that happen?

because it's one of those family plans.

Um, and so it affects me,

>> right? But but can we not get him on his own? Like he doesn't he's not on the family plan. He's on his own plan. He's 21. First of all, he shouldn't be living at home anymore. And I know what's going on here. This is this is a marriage issue because your your husband is just not willing to make this kid >> What's your husband's reasons?

What does he say?

>> You know what? I I have a lot of compassion for my husband. Um we've took a trip to his home country a few years back and I know where he's he comes

from. You know, he comes from a lot of need and poverty and um you know, part

of it I think it has made him the man he is. He's a lovely man, hard worker.

>> He just wants to take care of his family because he's able to now. And so there's Yeah. So yeah, that makes sense. So I think realizing >> Yeah. And I will say, Melanie, I'll give you like a little bit of just like breathing room. And he's 21. If he was

30, you know what I mean? Like like from an age perspective, he's young. He's 21.

>> I agree. >> He doesn't have his feet up under him from a from a job standpoint. He didn't go to school. Is that right? No degree, which is fine. I just clarifying.

So, so we need to find So, so as parents, and I don't have a 21-year-old, so I will say that >> as parents, I would think stepping in and helping him find and helping him

find himself, learning what am I good at? a lot of Ken's material is so good at this, but being an assistant to help him long-term figure out a career path that's going to help him instead of him jumping from coffee shop to coffee shop.

Let's actually sit down and create a game plan together so he has some stability and direction and then once

that happens, that's good for him from a dignity standpoint and then we're going to fly and we're going to have to learn how to be an adult, right? But um I don't know. I I >> Is he racking up debt with credit cards or anything like that?

Nothing crazy. The biggest thing that he has is his car payment, which is pretty

high. So, a little bit of backstory. Uh both of our kids, we gave them a car when they were 16, a beat up car. Like, I don't think we spend more than $1,000 on their car. >> Sure. >> Uh for them to be able to do the part-time jobs, the school, all that stuff. >> And so, he wanted to buy the flash card.

And I I said no. I said absolutely not.

My husband was going to go sign for it.

I said no. And so then he still went on

and did it when he was about 19. And my

husband said, "I so because he was so young, the car insurance was going to be up to the roof." And my husband kind of like agreed to put him under our car

insurance so it would be a lower rate >> and you know that's fine for a little

while until he gets some, you know, credit X. But he hasn't your name. No, I

get I think >> y'all need some time frames. Y'all need to put some a plan in place. This is just floating around.

>> I agree. But but you cannot put a plan

in place if you guys aren't in agreement on the plan. And the fundamentals of this plan are you're very nice. He seems

like a very good man, but you guys are not operating from the same system on

this situation with this kid, your kid.

So you you have one view. I think it needs to be this. I think he needs to be doing this. Your husband has a completely different view and it's understandable.

Rachel wrote a great bestselling book. I'm looking at it right now. Know yourself, Know Your Money. In fact, I'm going to give you Rachel's book because I actually want both of you to read this.

I think it is actually one of a it's a fundamental book for for couples who aren't on the same page about money. Before you get on the same page, you got to be able to understand each other.

>> You can she wrote a book on it. I'm gonna give you the book. I'll let her speak to it. But actually, I'll I'll segue to Rachel, but here's what I'm getting at. >> This is a marriage problem.

>> In other words, we're just not communicating well and aligned in this particular part of marriage, which is our 21-year-old son. I think getting

with a professional therapist where it's safe, everybody's psychologically safe, and we can get to the root of this so that you understand your husband and have and you do you have compassion for him, but you need to understand. And then he needs to understand how you feel. Yeah. >> And then let a professional who's unbiased walk you through where the boundaries need to be here.

And then and only then Rachel do I think we we establish a plan. >> Yeah. And I think you know sitting down and you guys figuring out what's the end goal and my assumption is I could be wrong is that we want our son to be successful in life, right? Be on his own.

>> And I think what Rachel said is so smart. I want to applaud you because I think it's a mix between total tough love and total grace.

>> The husband is is all grace >> and mercy. And you're like, uh, >> get him out. He's working at 16, >> right? He needs to pay his insurance at 19.

And And so I think there is a balance there, Rachel. >> Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely.

But yeah, you and your husband getting on that same page. And I think your hearts are both in a good spot. But remember, we wanting to help him, not harm him is the goal. And if you go your husband's route all the way, I think that's more harm than good.

>> So hang on the line. Kelly's going to get you a copy of Rachel's number one bestseller, Know Yourself, Know Your Money. Each of you read it, and I'd share it with your son.

Figure this thing out. Then we're all on the same page as a family.

[Music] [Applause] [Music]

Up next, we are headed out to Chicago and Orlando for the Ramsay Show Live.

Yep, you heard me right. We are taking this show to you. This is going to be everything you love about the Ramsay Show except you get to be a part of it.

>> Part of what, George? >> The The Ramsay Show Live. Ken, that's what I'm telling them about. >> Ramsey Show live in here. >> Nope. We're We're doing it on the road.

You're going to Chicago with me and Rachel Cruz September 30th. Are you free? >> The windy city. I like it that time of year. You know what else I like, George?

I like the deep dish. Oh, >> okay. Maybe we'll have some deep dish.

You mind if I finish the promo? Is that okay with you? >> Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Appreciate that.

Questions and answers, real conversations, and I'm sure a few surprises here and there. >> George, are you in here talking about TRS Live? >> I am, Jade. I'm trying to talk about it.

>> Nice. So, that means it's actually happening, right? It >> It's happening. If I could tell the people, I think it could actually come to fruition. >> Listen, just tell me when and where.

>> You don't know. Okay. We're going to Orlando. You're going to join Dr. John Deloney and I October 2nd.

>> Yes. Okay, great. I'm going to go pack now. >> Please, please do that. Go pack.

>> Uh, hey, George. Uh, speaking of packing, is this like sweater weather or is it not that cold yet in Chicago?

>> What is happening? Can I can I please just get to how they buy the tickets?

>> Jeez, I thought it was a good question.

>> Okay, this is not an arena tour. This is a one night only event in Chicago and Orlando. General admission is only 39 bucks. Plus, there's a VIP experience if you're bougie like that. But here's the thing. There's only 300 seats available, so get your tickets now at ramiesolutions.com/events.

>> Hey, how come you get to go to both cities? >> I I just go where they tell me, man.

Hey, have have you been there the entire time? >> Maybe. >> Okay. And also, are you reading a children's book?

>> I'm expanding my mind, George. It's >> how we got those PhDs.

>> Yeah, it's probably where you got that jacket. Okay, see you on the road, John.

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## 273. You Get To Decide Your Next Financial Step | April 20, 2026


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Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Ken

Coleman. Thrilled to be alongside my friend, partner in crime today to help you. She is Jade Warshaw. The phone number is88255225.88255225.

Let's go to Taylor who starts us off in Miami, Florida. Taylor, how can we help today? >> Hey, thank you all so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here. Um, >> I just got married last month and I, my

husband and I both are struggling to combine our finances because of all of the moving parts and we're looking for advice from y'all. >> What do you mean by all of the moving parts? >> Okay. So, one issue I have is I'm a contingent worker.

So, some weeks with the job that I have, I only bill for a 4-day week and some days I bill for a 7-day week, which means my base income a month could be $4,400 or it could be $7,600.

>> Yes, it's irregular, but usually the base amount I make is 4,400 and then the most I can make is 7,600 in a month.

>> What about him?

>> Um he is uh part-time for the school

system. He makes 1,700 a month.

>> Okay, that's it. Okay, >> so let's talk about why he's only part-time. Well, he has a rental portfolio and he manages um right now four different rental properties. >> What's that bring in?

>> So, one of the houses it's one of the houses has just been built and he roughly built it for 160K and he's planning on selling this one for 240K.

Um the other two, the cash flow between the two of them, they're only paying for themselves right now. Okay, so that takes us back to Ken's initial question and my initial

concern, which is still working part-time. The truth is he's still only profiting 1,700 a month. Um, we'll get back to that in a minute. I want to answer your first question about getting everything on the same page.

So, what I would do, um, it's not as complex as you think. You need one you need one joint checking account that you're both paid into and then you need one joint savings account or high yield savings account that you're going to place your savings in.

That sort of thing. So for now just those two accounts and what I would do is I would open up every dollar and I would budget uh for your minimum month.

So for you, I would budget the 4,400.

For him, the 1,700. And I would start with that as your kind of operating amount of money. And as you get more money, you just add it onto the budget.

As it comes in, you increase it. And now suddenly you might decide, oh, well, instead of spending, you know, $600 on groceries, now we can add a little bit more to that. Or before we didn't have, you know, money to do anything entertaining, now we can add that back to the budget, right? And as money flows in, you can increase line items or you can add line items.

or if you have any debt, obviously the extra money would go towards your smallest debt.

>> Okay. Um we are we are debtree. Both of our vehicles are paid off. We don't have any credit card debt. Um we have a savings established together. Um we got about between three and $4,000 in gifts

from the wedding alone. And we did not take a honeymoon. Would you think that we could or do you think that money should go into savings? >> I think you need to take a honeymoon.

>> Okay. Yeah, I think that's great. Is the You said you have savings plus the money from the wedding. Is it just the 4,000 or there's more on top of that?

>> No, I have um we have like a little like a I guess you'd call like an emergency account with 2,000 in it together.

>> Okay. So, it's 6,000 total.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. So, what I would do is I mean I would probably plan something modest because I mean you only have 6,000. And then I would try if if I were if I were you, I would probably try to keep half of this aside as I'm starting to build the three to six months of expenses. And then I do half for the honeymoon >> and just keep it modest.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. What's your what is your going to be your margin now that you know we've walked through we're just operating off of $6,100. That's his 1,700 and your 4,400. How much margin do you guys have after all the bills are paid?

>> Meaning how much is left over after all the bills paid over between $8 $900 a

month. >> Okay. What's What's If you have no debt, where's all that money going?

>> Well, it up and we just got married last

month. It paid for the wedding >> and now we're just now back to a spot where um you know, we paid for it. So,

>> Got it. So, what will >> now back to a spot where we're breaking even because we just paid all that stuff off. Honestly, I got in an uncomfortable position paying for all of that and now I'm like, I can call now.

>> Okay, gotcha. Well, again, you know, as he increases his income, you know, or certainly sees more value out of that, you know, the uh the managing the rentals, um you guys are in a decent spot for you to win. And the good news is you have no debt. So, you know, just walking these baby steps out, which sounds like you're in baby step three, >> which is to get a fully funded emergency fund >> of three to six months, months, three to

six months of expenses as my brain falls

apart. >> I like that. Yeah. What's the plan for you guys' residents? Are you renting now or what's up?

>> No, I I purchased a house before I met him. Um, and that's the house we're living in now. >> So, you guys have four properties total?

>> Well, really we have more than that if you include his portfolio. He had he acquired all of his rentals and he has like a couple of lots that he he

purchased for um >> so really strong. That's a lot of debt.

A lot of debt. Well, in mortgage and in

in in >> how much mortgage debt? How much home mortgage debt do you have combined? Including all his portfolio >> including all the um 60 plus

>> I'm counting it right now. Okay.

>> I have six. There's 60K on one of the rentals. There's 120 on another.

>> Okay. >> And there's 260 on the house that we live in now. >> Okay. >> The other things are paid off. >> Okay. Cuz when I heard managing rentals, at first I thought this was just what he did for somebody else.

>> No, no, no. He he owns >> he's carrying this debt.

>> Yeah, >> he owns them. But he's positive in equity on all of them.

>> Understood. But they're not and they're not bringing in any He's breaking even on rents. I'm just wondering about that.

>> He's charging too little. He's charging too little for rent every month. He's done got close with the tenants that he has. And >> I'll be honest with you, this is just me. Um, I'm not I think there's some

things you've done really well. If I were in your shoes, you guys are newly married. There's part of me I would love

cuz you said he's equity positive in all of them. I would love if you sold some of these in order to pay off your personal residence because if you did that, you guys would be smoking like

unstoppable. >> Yeah.

>> Okay. >> Think about that. What's your >> sell all of them? >> Yeah. But what's your mortgage every month? My mortgage is 1,600, but I pay $2,000 because I add extra $400 to principal every month. All right? >> And that's included in my in my uh like

when I told you I still have $8 to $900 left over every month. That's already after calculating that. >> So, it'd be 2,000 total.

>> Correct. >> I love that for you guys because if you turned around and took that money, how old did you say you were?

>> I'm 27.

>> Oh my gosh. >> She's got the investment calculator out.

Taylor, >> I'm I'm loving this because this is not even including like your normal 15%. I'm

just saying if you took that money that you have now, you paid off the mortgage and you said, "We're going to take that extra $2,000. We're going to invest it.

Uh we're going to invest it for a long period of time. Let me add this in here.

I'm going to tell you what this number is just based on that." And it is, drum

roll please, you're going to have $17 million.

>> Yeah. Taylor Do that from age 27 to age

67. You have nothing in there now. You contribute $2,000 a month. Average annualized rate of return 10 to 11% 17

million. Do the math.

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lender.

Okay. Hey, I I want to make sure that we

we lock in on the number you just threw.

>> Yeah. >> At that last caller because um >> you don't just say 17 million and speed past it like you didn't just say what you just said. >> No. And I and I and and as we were talking about this, you know, the reason that number is so high is >> Well, number one, the time in the market. >> Yeah. >> Like nothing beats time in the market.

The fact that they would be starting in their 20s, in their case, 27 years old.

That's why it's so important, guys, when we when we teach this stuff. If you can get it, if you can teach it to your kids, your friends kids, your grandma, like teach it because the longer the younger you are when you start this, that compounding interest, man, it's it's a what is it? The eighth wonder of the world. Is that what they used to say? >> I uh I think that's what it is called.

>> Is that right? Eighth wonder. And and it's true because for them, yeah, age 27, age 67. Not saying that they have to

work until they're 67 because they're going to be millionaires obviously well into their 40s, right? Um, but the point here is it doesn't take much. Can we talk a lot? A lot of times people think this is the sell the car show, right?

Because we're always telling people to sell their cars. But in this case, $2,000 is what is setting them free. I don't even know if that's 15% of their income.

I don't know how, you know, how much they're going to make over the course of their life. All I know is today if they paid off their house, which they had the money to do, to have that $2,000 of margin and how powerful that is. And all

of you who are watching right now need to think about that because if it's not $2,000, maybe for you it's 1,500. Maybe for you it's 500. Go home today. This is

everybody's homework. All right? >> Pull out an investment calculator. Go to ramseyolutions.com.

Pull out an investment calculator and plug in the numbers. It's going to ask your current age. So if you're 47, I'm 42. I'll put 42 in there.

And then when do you want to retire? I'll put 62. And then start playing around with the numbers. And at the bottom where it says, what do you think your annual return will be?

I want you to put 10 to 11%. Because that's what you should be making in the stock market. Ken, if your mutual funds are not producing at least that, which of course over the past four years it's been bananas.

annualized rate of return, which means if we take all the years and take the average of them, it's between 10 to 11%.

So, you can say, "Oh, Jade, what about 911? What about 2008 and 9, Jade? What about now? Right? That's fine. Yes, it does dip and do all of this, but it does it as it ticks up. It does it like this.

So, we're always going up. So, I want you to do that. And if you're if you're invested now, go and look and see, oh my gosh, what are what have my returns been? Cuz if you're somewhere in the five and six and 7%, you're not invested in in in the top in the tops 10, Ken.

You need to be you need to be doing better than that. So, that's just a little a little something something. And here's what we're going to do to help with the homework that teacher Jay just threw out to everybody. We're going to put a link to the investment calculator that she's got up on her computer right now at ramseyolutions.com.

We'll put the link in the show notes. Uh Kelly the producer is going to do that because she's amazing as well. So, uh we got a homework assignment and we already have the cheat sheet for it. >> I know.

Um, when you do what Jay tells you to do, you're going to really have a on the

ground experience with vision casting, you will >> Oh, so good. >> That's what I mean. When you can see into the future and what what she's going to have you do is plug in numbers and see what is actually possible. But

the possibility has power because it

becomes a number and you can see it in the future with just consistent activity. So what's going to happen is as a result of your homework assignment for these fine folks >> is they're going to now start to visualize >> and set a vision for their future.

>> Can you I I know you're ready to preach on this because what what happens with me started I'll take an offering. What happens when there's no vision?

>> People perish. And what that means that's straight out of scripture and what that means is their soul. the spirit in all of us >> uh truly begins to seep out of your body. >> Um and and you know without getting any more of that. And so that's why it's so huge. By the way, while we're at it, there needs to be a vision for your marriage. There needs to be a vision for your children. There needs to be a vision for your professional life. There needs to be a vision for your health.

>> Yes. >> I mean, you will perish. And and what

that means is is that you are slowly, which we all are. But this idea of never having a vision and something that I'm looking forward to is what kills people

>> long before they die.

>> Which is what Edgar Allen Poe said to put a bow on it. >> Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them.

>> Sorry, I had to, you know, I'm now pulling old references. I love it. But that's the idea. That's what we're talking about. All right, let's get to Bianca who joins us now in Las Vegas.

Bianca, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good afternoon. So, I have a question. Um, my dad is selling his

house that I'm currently living living in. And, um, we're looking at me, my

sister, and him getting $100,000

100,000 each from the house. And I have

three kids. I have two twins that are eight months. And then I have a four-year-old. I had to leave the father and my kids when my twins were five

months. So, as a stay-at-home mom, I'm

trying to get back on my feet and I'm trying to see what should I do with these $100,000 to get started.

>> Okay. >> Wow. >> Well, can you give us a little detail of what are the money problems you're dealing with? In other words, you know, we want to know what your debt is. Uh we want to start there so we can kind of help you walk through what you should do with the 100K. So, give us a picture.

Okay, so I have some school that I have to pay off that is $12,000. And then my

debt for credit cards and stuff is 3,000. And then I did buy a mentorship

to get started in my business. Um that I

have to pay off as well. >> How much?

>> Um 3,000.

>> Okay. So 12,000 for the school, 3,000

debt of credit cards, and then my mentorship, 3,000.

>> So you got $18,000 of debt. Um the the

100,000 is that going to be the only money to your name, or do you already have some money saved up?

>> No, I have nothing. I was a stay-at-home mom um the whole time.

>> How soon do you get the money?

>> Um as soon as house sells. And um

they're taking pictures next week. Okay.

>> So, um, and then also too, um, cuz I'm

getting into like the hair business and like content and all that, I do want a room for the house that I'm going to

rent cuz I'm think I'm debating whether doing a twobedroom and all of us sleeping in one bedroom and then having one room to have all my things um to

travel and stuff as a traveling hair stylist. Um, >> interesting. >> So, I'm >> Okay. >> Exactly. And so I'm just debating whether I should So the houses here are like 1,600 for two bedrooms and for

three bedrooms is 2,000 >> to rent the room out. Is that that's the profit on renting the room out?

>> No. Um for renting a house.

>> That's just her cost. Rental cost.

>> Got you. >> So are you generating any revenue uh any income at all right now as a hairdresser?

Um, currently I'm just practicing

my um because it's a hair bridal business. So, um I'm still learning

which I did hair for 14 years, but since I did color, it's a way different department. So, I'm like learning a lot of stuff. Got it. >> And I every >> Well, here's why I'm asking. Here's why I'm asking. How are you surviving right now? That's what I'm trying to get. >> My mom. My mom. She's the one helping me right now. >> Okay. So, you're not going into debt.

>> Oh, and then I do have child support, too, that I'm getting $1,800.

>> Okay. So, we have $1,800 a month coming in and mom is helping you out and you're not going into debt for living expenses is what I'm trying to get at.

>> No. >> Okay, great. >> No. Um, >> that's good. That's good. >> Okay. So, the your big question is I'm

getting $100,000. We don't know when you're getting that. Uh, we hope within 3 to four months. the house hasn't even gone on the market yet and then there's, you know, time to get that. So, let's just say to be safe, we're looking at four to five months at the earliest that you're getting this money. Is that fair?

>> Yes, that's what I'm thinking, too.

>> Okay. And so, when we get the 100,000, we want to clear the debt and then we set you up for the next level. So, here's what we're here's what we got going on. Um, we got to do a commercial break and we want to be able to help you. And so, hang on the line, Bianca.

When we come back, Jay's going to walk you through every penny of this $100,000

and how it can set you up for financial success. So, that's the good news.

You're going to be okay. Hang on the line. We'll be back to take care of you.

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All right, we are on the line with Bianca. Bianca is uh going through a

divorce, all the things, uh separating from the father of her kids, and she's getting $100,000 from the sale of the home. And uh so we're bringing her back cuz we got to walk through this. She's got $18,000 in debt. And uh so Jade, let's jump in

here because last we talked to her, she's trying to find a place that in that $1,600 a month range for rent.

>> Um and so walk her through here. What would she do with this 100,000? How does she get on stable feet with this money?

>> Yeah. So the $100,000 I would use that to to walk the baby steps. So the first thing you're doing, you're paying off the 18,000 of debt. Okay.

So that's going to leave you with a 78 around 80 left. And then from there on, you're going to estimate, you're going to do some research here. You're going to say, "Okay, what's it going to cost to rent in the area? I think you quoted around $1,600 a month." Then you're going to estimate food, transportation, all of these things.

And you're going to create a budget. Right now, it's kind of a a makebelieve budget, but you're going to go, "Okay, what's my cost of living? Is it somewhere around 3,000, maybe $4,000 a month?" And then you're going to take that and you're going to multiply that by six, and you're going to put aside another $18 to $20,000 as a six-month emergency fund. So, we've already spent 40,000 of this money and now we've got 60,000 left.

Now, here's my challenge to you.

until it's gone. >> I agree. >> That is not a plan. I would take this money. I would tuck it away in a high yield savings account under lock and key. This is where you need somebody to hold you accountable. >> Uh you're not married right now, but you need a really good friend. Mhm.

>> Somebody who you're willing to give access to your life in the way of I know where this money is. I know what you've told me. Maybe I get an alert to my phone if you start spending this money.

Something like that to where this money can just hide there until you're ready to purchase a house. >> Yeah, I agree. >> Right. Yeah. You know what I'm saying?

>> I just don't want to spend everything on rent. >> I don't want to. >> You're not going to spend any of it on >> I have a plan for that, Bianca. So, let me ask a quick question. When you say traveling hairdresser, does that just simply mean you go to the clients? Is that what that means? Forgive my ignorance. >> Yes. Yes. So, in the bridal industry, you go to the venue and do their hair there or you travel to a salon that I

have where I do daily rental. Okay.

>> But I just want to have a room to do content cuz nowadays everything is content, you know. >> Okay. And I thought I heard that. So, that means you're doing some social media stuff, right?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay, let me ask you a question. Are you making any income off of that content?

>> So, I do practice every weekend on somebody and they tip me like I mean for

the month I get like 100 150 maybe on

like um >> but is that is that making money on the content you're posting? That's that's I'm asking. You said content I'm getting somewhere with this. >> You said I want to make my content work.

Well, content doesn't work >> unless it's generating revenue. So, are you generating any revenue?

>> No, I literally just started two weeks ago.

>> Okay. Yes. >> Can I Can I just be a coach for a second for you? >> Uhhuh. Yes. >> Um, there's an old phrase. It's on some cheesy motivational poster somewhere that says when you chase two rabbits, you lose both of them. And I just wonder, and I'm not saying that this is chasing two rabbits, but I wonder if you shouldn't be putting all of your energy into doing people's hair. And then we get to a point where, to your point, I'm

not spending any of the money. Jade's got it under lock and key, and I keep it under lock and key, and I'm able to pay for my rent, buy my own job. I can pay

for groceries through my own job. I don't need mom to support me. And I just wonder if that's not the best use of your time.

>> Well, here is my my work, my business.

>> I understand, but you have to put time into all the social media stuff. So, again, you don't have to prove this to me. I'm just telling you, you don't you don't have to prove anything to me. >> Uh I'm not being cynical. I'm just >> There's two sides of it. Uh and I want to clarify this. I think this is going to help you, Bianca. If you

if you are already doing someone's hair that day for money and it's easy for you to film it, it's not taking a lot of time on your day. Yeah, it makes sense to post it online. From there, your revenue can be more so about um

advertising and getting people in the air because you know people use social media like Google now. So that's a great advertising venue. I think to Ken's point, it would be a while before you're generating any sort of revenue from platforms. If is that what you're going is that what you're going for? >> Yeah. >> Yes. So, the content is not for me to be like a content creator. It's just to advertise myself. >> Yeah. And again, I'm only raising it.

>> Put myself out there. >> Got it. And I love that, Bianca. That's why I'm saying I didn't want you to hear cynicism from me. More just focus, utter

focus right now so that we're bringing in as much money as possible because you're a single mama, mama bear that's got to take care of of some very important people. And so, that's just me saying, think about that right now.

Every ounce of time you have for work needs to be generating money. That's all. >> How many hours a week are you working currently? Because what I'm trying to get out, I'm just going to be honest with you. You got four kids.

>> Three. >> Three. >> Three boys. >> Three boys. And you've you're going to have a $1,600 rent. Cuz remember the plan is to not touch this money. So my my my question for you is how many hours

are you working a week at this or where do you think it will start? And if it's at a part-time level, what will you do with the other time to bring in money?

I'm just throwing some questions out there for you to be thinking about.

>> So, my goal is to work Friday, Saturday,

and Sunday and just do it full-time.

Right now, um I'm just doing a couple of color clients to like be able to help me um pay the bills and my mom too. But um

I just basically Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, which are the busiest days to work because when when I get to the point where my um business will be successful, I can make up to like a,000 to 1,500 a week.

>> But what will you do on the days that aren't Friday, Saturday, and Sunday?

What will you do on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday? >> Well, I my my plan was to stay with my

kids because it pays more. it costs more

to have them um in daycare or somebody

watch them. >> And that's why my goal is Monday to Thursday stay with them and then Friday, Saturday, and Sunday um work those days.

>> Can can mama not watch them while you're out working?

>> My mom? >> Yeah, your mom. >> My Yes, my mom works. I literally have nobody to watch them right now. That's that's why I chose to go. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, here's what I just want to

caution you. I want you to do whatever you can not to siphon this money slowly,

>> okay? >> And because what can happen is you can have a distorted view of reality of how well you're doing.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz when the bills are paid and everything seems fine, it makes you feel like everything's good. But if your hair business is not bringing in the money that you really need to survive, you could look up and be in a world of of pain in about a year or so from now.

>> That's right. >> So, just just caution that. I think you're thinking through this. I want you to do a a deeper level of thinking on the Monday through Thursday deal and see if there's anything you can find because don't automatically assume you can't find work that can pay for daycare.

I don't want you to automatically make that assumption. >> Yeah. And and to that point, I'm going to throw it out there. Maybe the best move for you right now is to go work for an established salon that needs somebody cutting hair and you're not the one trying to find clients.

You got enough to deal with right now as you're going through a very traumatic time. You know, you need time to heal. So, I would be considering if I could go make really good money or as much money as you possibly can given your time limitations for a salon >> where they're generating customers for you or however that works. I'm I'm over my skis here on this particular topic.

I should be letting you talk about the business part, but I think if you could get somebody else to pay you is my point. >> Agree. >> Until you get established and then we find, okay, I'm going to start doing a couple keep my hair color clients >> on, you know, maybe I do a Monday night, you know, the boys are in bed at 8, maybe I do a couple, you know, I do one late night color. Yeah.

>> And you begin to build that way. And I think this is the mindset you're going to have to have. But here, Jade, well, >> you need to do everything in your mind. you.

I need to almost trick your mind that that $40,000 is someone else's and you just cannot touch it unless there's some crazy insane emergency, which of course you've got to. Yep. >> But it's truly emergency money only. And I think if you do that, you will find a way.

And there's no way, Bianca, that Jade and I would bet against a single mama. >> No way. >> Like there's zero chance, >> right? I want you to hear that.

Like there's no stopping you. I wouldn't get in front of you if my life depended on it to take care of those three boys. So, I want you to hear that you got this. We believe in you.

>> Okay. >> Okay. But get after it like your life depends on it.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

>> You know, we hear it all the time. A car accident, a cancer diagnosis, a heart attack, and suddenly everything changes.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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buying or selling a home is a big deal.

You didn't need me to tell you that. It's just such a huge, huge deal. The emotion, the money that's involved here.

And uh the reality is all these deferring headlines.

Uh there's clickbait on social media.

Somebody always trying to tell you about the latest things, but we want you to know we're here minding the store. What is what are the real trends? What are home prices at right now? What what are we seeing with the inventory? Uh what is the rate on the average 15-year fixed rate? All of those things. We've got that for you so that you can trust the information. And uh you can get that, by the way, by going to ramiesolutions.com/market.

That's ramiesolutions.com/market or we have the link in the show notes.

All right, let's go to Nick in Witchah, Kansas. Nick, how can we help you today?

>> Hey guys, uh, thanks for taking my call.

It's an honor to be talking to you all. >> You, too. What's going on? >> So, basically, uh, so basically, um, my wife and I bought this house about a year and a half ago, um, with two incomes.

Uh, we had planned for two incomes for quite some time, and, uh, the Lord blessed us with our first daughter. Um, and so we kind of uh switched paths. Uh, so my wife is a stay-at-home mom. Um, because we'd like to expand our family a little bit further.

Um, but we know that uh now this house is a little bit more than we could chew. Um, so we're looking for uh other options. Um, and one thing that we're looking at is uh some land um that we would like to buy and and then build a house on. Um, so I called the bank up and they said, "Hey, uh, you should take out a heliloc to buy the land and then get a construction loan." and I said, "Heelock, I don't know what what would Dave say." So, that's why I'm kind of calling in today.

How how much are you uh you know, you're running short on money? Give us that breakdown.

>> Yeah. So, uh currently, um with our mortgage and everything, uh unfortunately, uh we we uh

got a 30-year loan. Um, and so it's 40%

of our take-home pay right now, which is how much? >> Which is a lot more than 25%. Take home pay is about 65 grand.

>> So take home is 65. And what is the actual amount of the mortgage right now?

>> So the mortgage is a little over 1,800

bucks, but we put extra on because we wanted to pay it off uh earlier than 30 years. >> Okay. Now we're paying about >> I'm sorry. Go ahead. Well, well, knowing what we know now, the 1,800 is too much, right? It's too much for you guys.

>> So, as we start thinking about what we're doing now and you're thinking about a house with land, what is the number you need to be at? If you could wave a wand and change your mortgage payment to the right percentage, what would it be? A 25 at max.

>> Um, so 25% would actually be about

$1,500. Um what we the minimum payment

right now is $ 1,800, but we actually pay more than that um to make it not a 30-year loan. Uh that's why it's at 40%.

So it's actually about $2,400 instead.

>> You said you take home 65,000. That's around 5,400 a month.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And you said you're trying to get the more 25% is about 13,300.

So, I I wouldn't I just want to I just

want to make sure we're we're on the same numbers cuz you're quoting different numbers than I have on my paper. So, I just want to make sure you're off by about $300 on a lot of what you're saying, which >> is not a lot, but it is a lot. You see what I'm saying? So, I just I want I just want to make sure I'm It's fine that you're off.

I just wanted to make sure we're tracking together. So, you've been paying extra on the $1,800 mortgage.

>> Yes. >> Got it. Okay. Now we can move forward,

keep going. So the plan is absolutely somebody told you to take out a heliloc.

You're it rose your hackles to buy to

buy the land. >> Yeah. >> And but I first of all, you know our answer to that, but I beyond our principal answer on that. I I just don't understand why.

Well, I do. They're trying to sell you a product. >> Yeah. Don't do it.

Um, but you should be able to do the lot and the house all together in one construction loan and it needs to be, you know, uh, within reason for you. So, can you do that?

where you need to come in at at what your monthly mortgage is?

>> Yes. Yes, I think so. So, the the lot is about 65 grand and we put about 150 um

into a house on it. And so, uh, with the equity we have in our home now, that would bring us at a mortgage of about $150. Um, maybe a little bit less. So,

that would, uh, our monthly payment were to be about, uh, probably a little bit less than $1,500 a month.

>> That's great. >> It's a much better situation. So, the point is put the house on the market and do what you just said, but you don't need to get a heliloc to buy the land.

>> Okay. Yeah. >> They're just going to be displaced for a while. >> Yeah.

Well, they're just selling you the bank. That's their job. >> Yeah. I mean, that's how they make money.

So, uh, but yeah, you don't need that. You just do it all in one lump sum. You've actually, have you built a home before? >> I've never built a home.

>> Neither have I. >> So, I'm a bit of a rookie on this. You know what I mean? Uh, but but I know you can do it all in one swoop since it sounds like you have you've researched it.

So, yeah, you're doing the right thing.

>> Yeah, absolutely. Me, too. >> Yeah. You're looking for a construction of permanent loan. Sometimes it's called like a one closed loan because you're not doing a separate loan on the land and then a separate loan. It's it's all together and it's it's one close. It's going to be easy for you to do it that way. >> Yeah. Thanks for the call. You're a smart young man and and now you know what to do and hey, walk away from these things as we have when we've made dumb decisions or or maybe not dumb but risky

and then the risk comes home to roost.

So, learn from this. Let's go to Emily who joins us now in Philadelphia. Emily, how can we help you today?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. Um, >> so my husband and I were expecting our first baby in June.

>> Congrats. >> And thank you. And we were wondering uh the best way to like build wealth for our child, especially because we hope to have many children. So, we wanted to make and we wanted to start now with that.

And um I wanted to know like how to start this and then update it as we have more children and our salary changes. >> Oh, I love that. Um, you know, I feel like that's kind of been a sentiment lately, people calling in and thinking about the best way to build wealth for their kids. And truthfully, and I think Kenya would agree, I think the best way to set your children up for wealth is for you to set yourself up to build wealth.

Because when you do that, not only are they learning uh valuable money principles in the home, right? They're they're observing what you do on a daily basis. So, they're seeing you save money, they're seeing how you speak about money, they're sensing the feeling about money in the house, right? So, when it's healthy, that's very good for them.

Not to mention, as you're building wealth, then you can do those things for them that set them up to succeed, like, you know, pay for their college. Uh you can help them with their first car payment, right? You can match the cost or, you know, different things like that. So, I think that's the best place to to start.

And obviously, as you're doing that, yeah, you're putting money in a 529 for them. Maybe you have the extra money that you're putting it aside, you know, in a mutual fund that you plan to gift them at their wedding, right? Those certain things.

>> Okay. Uh yes. So that was also kind of part of it because um we make about uh

total as a household like 200,000 great >> per year >> but um I am not sure if I'll be returning after maternity leave. So okay >> what will it change to then?

>> A 100,000. >> O >> now how is that g because we don't have a ton of time with you. We're going to roll through this real quick. How will that change your budget in the sense of

will it be super tight or will you still have margin?

>> Um, it will be pretty tight especially because we're looking to buy a house now, but we're doing that based off of his income just in case. >> Good. >> Smart. >> Um, so it will be pretty tight. So, we want to like optimize what we have.

>> And you have no debt?

>> No debt. No. >> Good. >> Do you have an emergency fund? Yeah, we have almost six month emergency fund and about um like 60,000 cash and 40 in a brokerage to put down for the house.

>> Very good. >> Okay. And so I'm moving fast here just for Jay to give her the final coaching moment here. So um will we still have

margin to keep investing 15% in baby step 4 with the red reduction? You'll still be able to do that.

>> Yes. >> And then it'll be tight. So now it's baby step five. So we just aren't going to have a lot to put in there. Jade is what I'm hearing. >> Yeah. You're just 29. You're just That's the reality. So, we got to figure out some income.

>> Yeah. It's going to be tight because you're going to be investing 15%. You're buying a new house. That I mean, that's what it is. But here's the thing. How old are you guys?

>> 26 and 27. >> 26 and 27. You are so similar to the couple that called in earlier that was going to have $17 million. If you guys avoid debt, you continue to to do this, your your income continues to grow over time, you are going to retire with several millions of dollars, right? On the $100,000 income, on the $1,500 income, um you're going to have plenty.

You're going to have plenty to put that $1,500 into your investment savings.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside Jade Warshaw, I am Ken Coleman. We're so excited to have you with us today. The phone number to jump in825-55225825-5225.

Mason joins us now in Richmond, Virginia. Mason, how can we help today?

>> Hey, how's it going? Thank you guys so much for being here. I was looking for what advice you could give me where I think most financial adviserss would say that my fiance and I are doing really well for our age, but man, I just find myself really stressed and anxious about money all the time.

>> Well, give us some evidence that would say that these financial advisors are correct.

>> Um, so we've got we've got about 50,000

in investments. We've got no debt. We've got new paid off vehicles. Um, we've got

probably about 50 grand in cash. I mean, I think on paper we would be doing well, but there's just something in me that keeps me >> There's just something in me that's telling me, "Hey, you're never going to retire. Life's getting more expensive.

It only gets more expensive." And >> well, I can tell you kind of >> just keeping me up at night. >> I get it. Uh, totally understand. But this has nothing to do with paper. This has everything to do with your past.

Okay. >> And what I mean by that is somewhere

along the way in the environment you

grew up in or some experiences that you have lived or been adjacent to, you have

developed this narrative that you're actually calling us about today. Is that true? Or I don't mind if I'm wrong, but I doubt you just pluck this fear out of thin air. Where is it coming from?

>> That that's what I can't tell you. My uh my fiance comes from a very well-off family and I come from a pretty middle- class family, never struggled or anything. I I really can't tell you where it's coming from, but >> Oh, I know where it is. You just told me about it.

>> You actually just answered it. >> Uhhuh. Yeah, you did. >> You married a woman who comes from a very wealthy family, which is very different.

And you've got a little bit of fear of pressure. I'm not going to be able to finish the way that I see her parents finish. Or maybe I'm not going to be able to acquire everything that they have acquired.

excuse me, you're comparing your next to where they are now. And I think that's probably what's driving you crazy. I want to bring Jade in. What are you hearing? >> Uh, well, how old are you?

>> I'm 24. She's 23.

>> I think Ken is exactly right. Number number one, you're very I mean, you're just getting started. My husband and I got married at 23. And Ken is exactly right. Uh, you both came from families that did fine and did well and better than fine. And you do feel that pressure of okay, we both have a lifestyle we are

used to. We want to get there right away. And you're right, you know, you've got 50,000 invested, no debt, 50,000 in cash. You've done extremely extremely, hear me, well, for 23 and 24 year olds,

you are so far above the game. Uh I don't know if you heard the first call that we took uh where it was some folks in a similar situation and I was explaining to them the power of compounding interest. You are in such a magnificent situation because your margin is yours to invest and you're not a millionaire today but I'm telling you it ain't going to take long. Ken Coleman, it's not going to take long at all.

And I don't know if you've sat down. Here's what here's my advice to you. And I I've said this many times before.

rational and irrational. And what I find is the irrational forms tend to be

extremely vague. So what you're saying, I'm just afraid I won't be able to retire. I'm just afraid I'm going to mess it up. I'm just afraid that we won't build wealth. Why? In what way?

What's going to happen? So what I would challenge you to do is take that vague fear and put some like substantiate it a little and and put some meat on the bones. Well, if you don't build wealth, why would that be? what would happen?

You would lose your job. The stock market would crash and play out your worst fears and then you're going to look at it on paper and you're going to you're going to kind of laugh at it and go, "Okay, that's that's pretty silly." >> Yeah. >> Right. >> So, let's put you on the spot.

>> Yeah.

And let's just put it out there. I want you to be as specific as you can on your greatest fear, the one that you lay awake at night. Be specific. What is it?

>> Yeah. We uh we'd love to move to California one day and uh we I own a

home in Virginia. She'll be moving in here. And uh it's it's a lot cheaper in Virginia than California. And so I just feel, hey, maybe we're never going to be be able to buy a home there. And I understand that. >> Okay, hold on. Now we're getting somewhere. >> That's good. But I want specifics.

>> So let's be specific because we're we're actually going to use Jade's coaching here, but we're going to give her numbers. All right.

>> So let's pick a number that's pretty realistic. What is that house going to cost in California roughly? >> Maybe maybe 750 for a condo or town

home. >> 750. >> I think you need to up it, my guy.

>> Let's go one time. Let's go 1.4.

>> Yeah, I like that. I like that. >> All right. 1.4. And how many years from now >> that you would be moving to California?

>> Any >> any time frame? We I mean, we'd love to move out there soon and just rent and buy buy a home eventually.

>> Okay, let's go eventually. And uh let's go. Let's uh you like 1.4 or do you want to do more than that? >> Let's start with 1.4 because they can get a condo or like a smaller townhouse.

>> 1.4. And you got no debt and all that.

So your big fear, you're telling me your big fear is I'll never be able to amass the amount of money I need to to buy that house and not be house poor.

>> Is that what I'm hearing? >> Right. Correct. >> All right, Greg. Jay, take over. This is fun. Now listen to this.

>> Okay, so here's what I do. I' I'd take the numbers and I'd work backwards. We talked about this earlier because this is vision, right? Um, you're not there today. Although I didn't get your income. What's your income today?

>> Uh, combined it'll be 130. Fantastic.

>> Okay. So, what I would start with is I'd work backwards. I'd say, "Okay, I want a house that's 1.5 million uh or 1.4

million." And right now, I make 130K.

Out of that, what do you take home every month?

>> Uh, it's about eight grand every month.

>> Eight grand. And of that eight grand, how much is margin extra?

about 2500. >> 2500. So I'd be looking at that and I'd say, "Okay, 2500, that's my margin. I want something that's 1.4. I've got to figure out how much money I need to save or make in order to have something that's 25% of my take-home. That's the math. That's the math to solve for. And when you solve for that math, you're going to start having answers. And it's going to give you something aspirational to work towards." Because here's the thing, it is 100% not out of reach. It's

just going to take some concerted effort to get there. >> Fair enough. >> Sure. >> And then what you can do, you can say, "Okay, >> makes sense. >> If I take that 2500 and let's let's play this out. Let's say this a five or six or sevenyear time horizon. What if I invested that money? How quickly could I get there if I invested it?" Um, and I would play that out. I would go on Ramsey Solutions. I' I'd use the calculator. I'd use the mortgage calculator. And I'd use the investment calculator. That's exciting.

>> Do punch in punch in 2,000 a month.

Okay. Still gives them a little bit of of margin for other things. >> Uhhuh. And we'll do it on a let's do it on a fiveyear horizon. Is do you want to

do that? 31. Do we like that?

>> Five years sounds great. >> Okay. Five years sounds great. So do you have anything invested currently? You said 50, right?

>> Uh that's just in retirement accounts.

Nothing else. >> Okay. Nothing. Okay. I won't use it. Retirement. Uh okay. So, if you started investing that today, you're going to have $250,000 in the next five years. And that's just

>> with what you have now. That's no side hustle. That's no cutting back. That's nothing else. >> So, that's pretty sweet. >> Yeah. >> So, the point is is we're not even putting you into this timeline that you got to move to California in 5 years.

What we're trying to do is address your fear >> that you're never going to have enough to live the life you want to live.

>> My friend, you're in great shape.

>> Wonderful. You need to take a deep breath. You need to take those fears to somebody else besides us. Talk through them. What's the source of it? No, I'm serious. Cuz it's okay, man. But it's so huge. Jay was right to just lay these fears out on paper, very specific, and just see how silly they are or how serious they are >> because sometimes they are justified.

So, you're in good shape, young man. Thank you so much for the call. You're way ahead of most people your age.

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All right, let's go to Washington DC next where Angela awaits. Angela, how can we help?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, so I kind of have a twofold question. Um, my

husband and I have a, you know, great jobs. Um, and we're in Baby Step 7, uh,

huge day fans. My question is like, I

want to be a stay-at-home mom. Um, but

is walking away from this highinccome job worth it? And if so, in the

meantime, what do I say for? What else

do I do to prep prepare for this?

>> Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, let's walk this thing back. Uh, so when would you leave? If you were to leave, how long from now?

>> Well, I don't have a time frame. I was thinking September, but of course, like whenever God tells me to, you know, we've been praying into it and stuff like that. So, um, >> what's your what's your reason what's your reason for walking away? I know stay at home mom, but what give me something specific?

>> Uh, my girls, they're five and seven.

Um, you know, I don't care to bring them

to before and after care. I want to be there on field trip. >> Totally get it. Totally. The greatest reason in the world. That helps me though because I my my job here is >> just torn. >> Yeah. Well, here's what we want to do. We want to help you get to a place on this call or shortly thereafter where you can make a decision. This is not for us to tell you. That's why I asked that question. That's the greatest reason in the world. How much do you make?

>> Right.

300K. >> Okay. And how much does your husband make?

>> Um 178.

>> Okay. And so um you're in baby step seven. >> Uh what do you what do you guys have?

What does your retirement portfolio look like? I'm looking for a number.

>> Uh so net worth right now is 3.1

million. >> Fantastic. Great job. So you're going to go down to 178 uh when you walk. Yep.

>> And uh my guess is smart as you've been,

you guys are still going to have plenty of margin.

>> Oh, yes. Yes. >> How much margin? >> Thank god. Yep.

>> Uh it's about 2500 a month.

>> Fantastic. I'm having a hard time finding any reason.

>> You probably feel the pressure of it.

>> Well, that's what my next question was going to be. Is is this because you're afraid that hm what if I want to come back and I might be throwing something away? Is it that or is it fear of what

other people are going to say?

>> I don't think it's fear of what anybody else is going to say because >> you know with my my husband and I always joke with him inside the house like we are the Joneses, right? Because our our standard is different, right? We're content with what we have, right?

>> Um so I don't care what anybody else says. I see it as a badge of honor to be able to do that with my kids.

Absolutely. So what's my husband and I grew up in poverty? My husband and I grew up in poverty, right?

>> I never dreamed and he never dreamed that we'd be making this much, right?

>> And so, >> would it be foolish to step away and

>> No, not at all.

>> Because it's your definition of success.

>> Yeah. >> It it all has to do with your definition of success, your definition of importance, where you place your values of importance. It all has to do with that and and and some people do their their values are in >> um their job and what they generate and their income and their productivity and all that stuff in the work space and other people their values are centered in other areas and that is totally okay.

Okay, I'm I'm going to give you an example. Have you seen the movie The Devil Wears Prada?

>> I have. >> No. No.

>> Oh man.

>> I can't I don't I don't watch >> I get it. >> You got to watch it. But in the in the movie, she has this amazing job that quote a million girls would kill for.

She's making she's she's in proximity.

She's making money. She's doing her thing. And she doesn't like what it's doing to her home life. She doesn't like what it's doing to her relationships around her. And so she sacrifices it.

And people think she's crazy for giving up this dream job. But for her, her values are placed in other places.

That's all I wanted to tell you is it's totally okay. Success for you means that you're there with your kiddos. >> Yeah. >> That's fabulous. Let's rewind to your real fear here, which is we grew up in poverty. So the fear under there is will I? So the question I'm making this up, but the question that comes with that reality is will we have enough?

>> That's a question that is constantly rotating in your head because of your back >> backwards. >> Okay, great. >> So here's the deal. So we have to reframe the question.

And so instead of allowing the question to be will we have enough >> now we know we'll have enough like your confidence when I asked you what will your margin be it was awesome you were like you literally went like this you went oh 2500 bucks like you're so >> I was prepared I mean the numbers in advance but I'm praising you and I'm pointing out to you your confidence when you weren't thinking about that question you just boom we're fine so now the new

question is What is enough?

And so before you make this move, you write that out. What is enough? And it's like what we have is enough. We are the Joneses to use your phrase.

>> What is enough is that I get to be mom to my five and sevenyear-old. That's enough.

>> Yes, >> it is. It is. That's where my importance is. God has gotten that out of me the past year and a half. >> So my point is >> he has broke. You're making a great decision. >> You're making a great decision. And here's the deal.

>> Those girls are going to be 15 and 17 in

a whisper of a moment. I'm telling you, I'm on the other side of it. I'm ahead of you. >> Okay? I got my middle one's going to college in three months. My youngest has

got two more years. I don't even know how that happened. Okay? My point is um

you'll never get this time back. you can always get back in and make more money.

>> Right. Right. It's just it's it's just

so much. Right. And it's like what else haven't I thought of to do it while it's good? Yeah. >> Have you allowed yourself to um picture what a day is going to look like? Let's let's just assume that uh tomorrow, you

know, uh you're you're out. You've checked. You're done. >> I'm decluttering my house. I'm decluttering my house and I am going to exercise. >> Oh, I love that. >> Right. What are you going to do with the girls? What are you going to do on the first Monday when you aren't working and and it's summertime and you realize I don't have to go in today? What are you going to do with the girls?

>> We're going to go on walks. We're going to go to the park. Depends on how old they are. Like we're going to go find something to get into or maybe we'll travel. >> I don't know. Go visit family.

>> Sounds great. >> I haven't really decided summer.

>> I love that for you. I love that so much for You're going to cook meals. You're going to >> That's the You're going to take care of yourself. Man, >> my husband wants to be wants me to be a safe home mom. Like, everybody wants me to. >> Oh my gosh, what are we waiting on? Why are we even waiting till September?

>> She just needed permission. >> The chain. >> Yeah, >> the chain of 300,000.

>> Uh, listen. >> It sounds like old handcuffs.

>> Well, by the way, that's real. >> It is. It is. >> By the way, that's why that phrase came about and why it has stuck in culture so long because it really adequately describes the psychological situation

when somebody is thinking about doing what you're doing. It almost feels stupid, >> doesn't it? >> Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. I get it. But what we got to do is >> called >> I know. Well, I hope we helped because we have to reframe.

>> The reason I asked you what the first Monday looks like with the girls when

you're done is because that's what you have to reframe around. That's what you're deciding on. You're not deciding on being stupid and walking away from 300,000. You are deciding to make

unbelievable memories that when it is all said and done, long after you stopped working, you are dreaming and fantasizing on the

past, the good old days. And when you go

home, you are in the middle of the good old days, >> man. Come on, Ken.

>> So that's Listen to that. That

>> that's joy. >> That's kind of what we wanted on this call. So >> Angela, you didn't need our permission. And I think that uh hopefully you see this now as not a dumb decision, but

maybe the smartest decision you'll ever make.

>> Yeah, that that's powerful. Okay. Well, thanks for thanks for walking me through that and help validating some things.

Appreciate it very much. >> You're an awesome mama and uh boy, >> thank you. >> You'll never ever ever ever ever

regret making the move that your heart's telling you to make. that I'll stand by and I'll fight with anybody on that anytime. Listen to your heart. It's not just a great song by heart.

>> Listen to your heart.

>> I knew she was gonna do it.

>> Oh, it's such a blessing to be able to throw a bounce pass to somebody who can do something with it. There it is.

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All right. Are you aware that we have Ask Ramsey? What is Ask Ramsey? You ask,

I'll answer. Ask Ramsey is an AI tool that's built and trained on our proven Ramsay principles. And today, we're going to break down the most asked questions from the week. And the big

question that kind of wins the derby as the most asked question, Jade, is how do I determine the appropriate amount and

type of life insurance that I need?

>> Wow. Well, first off, I love people are thinking about this. And the Ramsey principles do make it simple. When you go on Ask Ramsey, it's going to get straight to the point. They're going to say term life only. That's all you need.

That's what we would say here on the show. You need a term of about 15 to 20 years. That's what we would recommend on the show. They're going to say, "Hey, coverage amount needs to be 10 to 12 times your annual income," which is just what we would say here on the Ramsey Show.

Now, the reason is it's very straightforward. Your life insurance, guys, it has one job. The job is to replace your income if something happens to you so that your family is taken care of. Okay?

if you should be beamed up sooner than you expect. Okay?

remember if you're a stay-at-home parent, you need coverage, too. You need term and term life insurance. Even if you aren't debtree, so that's the main thing here. Uh life insurance is not a baby step.

You need to get it in place as soon as you learn about it. Ken, >> absolutely. So remember, Ask Ramsey can help you determine how much term life insurance you need uh to get from Xander based on your specific situation. Of course, you've been with us anytime.

Uh we have been partnering with Xander uh for a very very long time. They are fantastic.

absolutely can help you. What they do is

um they actually shop all the different insurance opportunities for you to get you the best rate. I've known Jeff Sander for probably 15 20 years. Yeah,

>> great dude, great organization. Uh, so xander.com is the website there and uh

go today. You won't believe, by the way, how affordable term life is. I don't

think most people think uh that life

insurance is as cheap as it is.

>> Yeah. It's it's in the teens.

>> Yeah. So, very very important and you got to do it. I remember early on when we got this this teaching. This was many

many many years ago and uh we were in our 20s, Stacy and I just newly wed. And I remember feeling so responsible going to bed that night that if something were to happen to me, my bride, I didn't have we didn't have kids. It was going to be okay. >> Absolutely.

And that's the key, the peace of mind to know that if something tragic happens and unexpected that after all the grief and all of that kind of stuff that they're dealing with, they don't have to deal with the stress of not being able to take care of themselves. That's why this is such a huge deal.

They're starting to see it. So, very good stuff. Kathy is up next in Denver, Colorado. Kathy, how can we help today?

>> Um, yeah. Thank you for taking my call.

Um, what I'm calling about is my dad's

finances. Um, he's 80, um, and has

Parkinson's and recently had a fall, so I ended up having him in a nursing home so he'd have access to therapy. So, he has

oh, close to 600,000

in checking.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. And um so I'm wondering if I'm

overstepping my bounds to put it in a

CD. I've asked him several times and his

theory is he's going to get out and he's

fine and he's going to go back to running his business and everything's good. So he says, "Nope, don't worry about it." >> Okay. >> But it's, you know, it's only earning

one account's at 01, one's at 0.25.

You have power of attorney.

>> Uh, no. Um, you know, because I'm just a

kid and I don't need it.

>> Understood. So, >> so it sounds like I I I have a feeling

um yes, this money is of issue, but I think there's a bigger issue here, which is you've got to work on convincing him

that you need more control in this situation as he's aging and hopefully as

his health is declining at a very slow rate is was my hope here. But you said he's 80. How long has he had Parkinson's?

Um he's had Parkinson's for probably 25 years. Um his mental state since this

fall has deteriorated. Um

>> and he he Yeah. Um I'm the only child so

I don't have like anybody else to kind of bounce ideas off of.

>> What about his home? >> That's >> um >> his previous home. Oh, it's yes, it's uh quite rural and so I had originally

thought I would try moving him home this summer when the weather wasn't going to be an issue, but um last time I talked

to him here this morning, he thought he was in a hotel.

>> So, >> what is his retirement accounts like?

What does he have there? I know he's got 600K in checking. What does the rest of it look like? >> Um most all of it's in CDs. Um, and

honestly, I'm I would have to go look all those up. I'm not 100% sure. My names are on the checking accounts so I can write checks. Um, >> can you just move the money and not I mean, I I'm not saying I would move it to a CD. I'd probably just put it on high yield savings account, but can you >> Okay. >> Can you move that?

>> You You're your name is on the account.

>> I honestly I might just go ahead and do it. He's going to be none the wiser and it's for his benefit. Um, I probably

wouldn't go as far as to invest it because I feel like he needs he would need to sign off on that. But >> he has more than 600,000 is what I'm trying to understand. Correct.

>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. He's um >> What's his worth? I mean, if you had to guess.

>> Oh. Uh, including land.

>> Yeah. >> Um, probably 10 to 12 million.

>> Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. I I guess the reason I'm asking this is Kathy, I love where your heart's at and I'm so glad you called us. I don't think you have to do much here.

>> Does he have an estate plan?

>> No. >> Oh, now that's now that to me is the priority. You getting in charge of you taking over his finances? I think that's going to happen pretty soon anyway.

>> Um he's in such good shape that I think the bigger issue is is like you're the only child. What kind of a will does he have? No will.

>> There's no will. >> He has to do that. Like that is that is

priority number one, not you managing his money. You're already managing his money in the sense that if he begins to lose all of his ability to function, uh

you're already on the account, so you can do all that. But the guy's got 10 to 12 million out there, you need to get a will while he's still coherent.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. >> That's priority number one. You know what's going to happen, Jade? Tell them tell her what happens if if he passes and there's no will. >> There's no will. It's going to go through the courts. It's going to go through probate there. It's just going to take forever. And you don't know how

all of this is going to get divvied up.

I mean, you're the only child, but I don't know what else is going on. I don't know if there's a step brother and everybody comes out of the woodwork. >> Yeah. This is scary to me. I This is

something I would be dealing with this weekend. >> Not this weekend. like, "Well, you're hanging up the phone with us and you're going to see dad, >> okay? >> Now, listen, you know how to talk to him, okay? But you've got to be asking him questions like, "Hey, dad, do you have an estate plan?" and things of this nature. And it's not going to be fun to talk to because he's thinking about getting out and last thing he told you, I'm coming back to run my business and all these things.

>> Um, >> you know what I might do? I might call up a lawyer and find somebody that will

will take this on and that will go with you to him. >> Great. >> And kind of work, you know what I'm saying? So your dad doesn't have to go anywhere. You could almost start wrapping this up. So I would get with the lawyer. I'd say, "Here's the situation. We need to get this done.

He's not going to come to you and and try to knock knock out and and let him get, you know, the gist of the situation in order to get that started." >> Okay. Okay. All righty.

>> But I would I would say this. I'd start with a question with dad. Hey, Dad.

What's your plan? What What is your plan? And maybe you've already had this conversation, have you?

>> Um, yeah, to a certain degree. And um, yeah, he he's going to get out and everything's going to be fine and he's >> I understand. I met like, "Dad, what is your plan upon you passing?" >> Cuz that will happen. >> I don't think he thinks he's going to that's going to happen. >> Wow. Oh, well now that's a lot. >> I don't know how he's figured that one out because, you know, no, nobody else has. >> Nobody else has gotten out of this deal alive. That's true.

>> No. No. >> Well, Kathy, I'm not sure. That's a tough one. But this has got to be the sweetest, kindest, most respectful

>> nudge. >> Yeah. >> Uh you there's no one else to do it. And trust me, this is is not going to be near as painful as what it will be if you don't get this handled. I can assure you of that.

Oh, we've had a blast on the road taking the Ramsay show out on the road to see all you fine folks. We have two down. We did Charlotte and Denver. Uh Jade and I

were out with John Deloney in Denver just last week and uh we're about ready to head out next week to join Rachel Cruz. It'll be Rachel, Jade, and myself.

Uh uh on April the 21st in Phoenix. And

uh we have a few seats left. Not many, but a few. And it's your last chance to snag those. It is a live Q&A. So, it's the show >> and instead of phone calls, we got people in the room standing up and mics asking us questions. We have a lot of fun. The energy in the room is absolutely amazing. So, if you're listening to us or watching and you're in the Phoenix area, uh we'd love to see you April the 21st. Go to ramseysolutions.com/events.

ramiesolutions.com/events and get your tickets. Going to be fun.

Are you um are you going to be uh

enjoying any Phoenix uh food or sights and sounds? Have you thought that far ahead? >> You know, if I could, I would try to get to a basketball game. >> I know. We already checked on that.

Unfortunately, Suns will not be in town.

>> Dad gum it. >> I know. We would have been there. We absolutely would have been there. So anyway, it's not going to happen. Uh Lesie is joining us in San Diego, California. Leslie, how can we help?

>> Hi there. So I'm looking for financial advice. I've had a lot of major changes in my life over the last couple of years, and the most recent one is actually led me to a housing issue where I'm not sure if I can even afford housing. It's a sticker shock at this point. Um, and I'm just I have family and friends who are giving me advice and options and different things to do and I'm just not sure what is really the best option for me.

>> Okay. Maybe walk us through these options that you're getting all this advice on.

>> Um, so one is um

all of this kind of plays into I was doing the baby steps before all of this happened. >> Oh, before all what happened? Take us back. >> So my mom passed last month. Oh, I'm

sorry. >> And I was living with her, helping take care of her. >> Oh.

>> Um, so I was on babysat, too, paying off

all of my debt because I a couple years prior I was in a car accident and I got a settlement and I my coworker was like,

"Hey, our job pays for this. Do it. See what it says." And before you do anything with money, so I started the, you know, the dates are baby step final planning and everything.

I was on step two and then my mom got sick.

>> Um, cancer, sorry. So, I It's funny. A week after

she was diagnosed, I watched a video of your guys's and all of them had said in

in the instance of cancer, drop everything and safe. So, that's what I started to do because I wasn't sure what to do next and I was focusing on taking care of my mom.

So, she's now passed and I can't afford

the place that I was renting with her.

And frankly, I don't I wasn't expecting the cost to be so close to what I'm paying now on my own for our studio compared to what we were erecting.

>> Sure. >> Okay. >> Um, so I I have been looking for

different options. Um, and you know, there there are different things. So, I saved some money um about $13,000 in cash over the last

couple of months um to try and get an

essay to figure out what I want to do.

Um I have they're not blood related, but

they're family. Um and they they have offered to help me buy a home and I would pay them back. No. >> Which makes me nervous because um rightfully so. >> I don't want to ruin the relationship.

>> Absolutely. Follow go with your gut. So, take that off the list, shall we? Can we just delete that?

>> Okay. And then, um, what's next?

>> So, I have been looking at housing and I'm about $600, $800 short on just basic

cost. Um, whether it is rent or, you know, estimated utility cost.

>> Um, I do have a car loan, which is pretty pretty high. I mean, it's not too bad at $21,000, but the monthly payment on it is about $600 a month, which is which is roughly what I'm short every month.

>> Yep. >> Wow. Um, I have, you know, like I said, I had saved up $13,000. So, I can take a good chunk out of that and try and refinance it again. And that that was a thought and I, you know, continue to try and save between now and when I have to leave where I am. >> But I just >> When do you have to leave where you are?

>> I have two months to find a place.

>> Okay. Two months. What about because

you're you're getting back on your feet and I'm going to ask you in a minute what type of work you're doing, but have you considered some place where you have a roommate cuz you've just been in a roommate situation and you were able to it was tenable for you. So, what if we find another roommate situation temporarily while you're able to get

career back up and going and all of these things, pay maybe pay off this car or sell off this car.

It is crazy that a small 300 foot studio

apartment is the same cost as a roommate.

>> So then why don't we do a small >> So if what you're saying is I'd rather have a studio apartment than a roommate and it's the same price, that's fine.

>> Yeah. So that originally I was like, "Oh, if it's cheaper, I'll do a roommate." I mean, I don't have anyone I can do it with, but I'll, you know, there there are ways to find people, you know, kind of a thing. >> But the price is, you know, minimal, like $100 difference, maybe. I mean,

>> do you have to stay in that area? Do you have to stay in the area that you're in? Because it sounds like your area is super expensive.

>> Um, so that that is leaving the area

that I'm in. >> Okay. So, let's get real numbers. >> Stay in the same neighborhood. That that number would be like 3,000.

>> Okay. But what's a one >> going 30 minutes in one direction or another gets me closer to >> what what are the prices? >> What's a onebedroom studio going to cost you? >> A one-bedroom studio um about 20 minutes

from where I am now is between$,695 and

2,100. >> Okay. What's keeping you in the area where you are now?

>> Uh my job. So, I I do work for a

construction company and my radius has been 30 minutes from that job.

>> Okay. I'm going back here because there was so much floating around. The $1,600 I'm taking the lowest number you just threw out at us. 1695. Okay. That's

You're saying if you got a roommate for something bigger, it would be the same amount. Did I understand that right?

>> Yeah. >> Okay. Is the 1,600 a month is that putting you 600 bucks behind?

>> Yeah. >> About Yeah. Okay. So, >> when I factor in utilities, yes.

>> So, we got to get out of this car.

>> That's what I'm thinking. >> Yeah. Because with the $600 in the car payment obviously make a massive difference for you. Correct.

>> Yeah. So, I >> You'd still be scraping,000 in my bank account. >> You what?

>> I have 13,000 in my bank account.

>> Uhhuh. Tell us. Okay.

>> That I have been essentially hoarding

while we figured out what was happening with my mom. >> Great. I want >> I want to get some real numbers from you before we run out of time. First off, I want to know what are you earning from this job?

>> Um before taxes, 62,000 a year.

>> Okay. What does that look like? What do you take home every month?

>> Um my net is about 3,000.

>> I am putting money into a 401k and there

we need to pause that. Uh, I think that we need to get you familiar with the baby steps and we're going to make sure you leave with every dollar and everything that's connected to it, which is the our Ramsay plan. But what I'm getting what I'm trying to get you down to is a foundational spot. We need all

of your income at your disposal. If we were to do the following things, this is going to work for you. If we pause retirement because kind of like what you said with the cancer deal, you kind of paused and you you stacked up money until it it was time. It's the same thing with investing. You're not in a place that you're ready to invest yet.

So, it's temporarily deposit. Get that money back in your pocket. How much money would that be back in your pocket?

>> Um, let's see. It's 6%. So,

about $200 each paycheck.

>> There's Well, we're at $400 already. And what I would do if I were in your shoes, that $21,000 car, I would look and see

what it's worth. Hopefully, you're not upside down. I would go on Kelly Blue Book tonight, see what it's worth, private sale, and I would sell it. And then I would use the $13,000 that you have, and I'd maybe use, I don't know,

eight or 10, and I'd buy myself a car in cash. And now you've still got a little bit of money there that if you have other debt that you need to clear out, you can start using that for other debt. And I keep $1,000 saved. That's what I would do because now you've got the $600 back in your pocket every month plus the $400 from investing. I just found you a thousand dollars.

>> Okay. >> Why are you not excited about this?

That's a lot of money, girlfriend. I just broke you free. >> It's so my job matches my 401k. So

that's why I >> You'll be able to do that later. Remember, this is just temporarily. I want you to have the money that you need to get in a situation where you can find some stability, get your legs underneath you, and now you're not feeling like you're in crisis mode. And when that happens, you'll be able to find ways to build up your income and eventually you'll be able to invest again. And that match will still be there waiting for you when you need it.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside Jade War. I'm Ken Coleman. So excited to have you with us today. 888255225

is the phone number. We start off with Joshua in San Francisco. Joshua, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, I've got about $80,000 in tax

debt and 50,000 in credit card debt. And I'm

wondering if I should file bankruptcy and just kind of start over.

>> What's your income?

>> Uh, 70,000 and then combined with my

wife like around a h 100,000.

>> Okay. And that's your total debt that you just gave us?

>> Yes. >> Okay. What is your mortgage or your rent?

>> Rent is 2,200.

>> Okay. What's your take-home number every month?

>> Um takehome for me is probably like

4400.

>> Mhm.

And for my wife is uh she her job's a

little bit seasonal. It's she cleans Airbnbs, but it's probably around like 3,000 a month at least on average.

>> Okay. And and what's making you think that bankruptcy is the only way out of this?

um because it just seems like such an

insurmountable number and now the taxes

are like racking up interest and penalties and the credit cards are, you

know, I used to be able to do balance transfers and kind of keep it under control, but it's just gotten out of control and so now, you know, it's just high interest. Uh, I

can make the minimum payments, but just seems like I'm never going to be able to pay it off. >> Sure. What do you do for a living?

>> Uh, maintenance tech for uh, apartment buildings. >> Okay. And what does your wife do?

>> She cleans Airbnbs. That's right. And does some caregiving. >> Okay. I'm going to start right here and go right to what I think is one of the key things we need to address today is what is the amount of income after taxes

if Jade and I could just put it into your account today. Okay. What amount of

money would allow you to start making progress and feel like you're actually getting momentum?

>> You mean like how much money?

>> Let's just assume I'm giving you extra income after taxes every month. I'm asking you, do you know how much money

extra a month if I gave it to you in payments? What would make a huge difference for you to where you go? Not only am I taking care of it, but I'm actually starting to knock this debt down. I'm making progress. I see momentum. What's that number? Additional income.

>> I mean, if it's 150 or 130 grand total,

um I don't know. Like >> that's the problem. You see what I'm saying? That wasn't a trap question, but I don't think you're on a budget. Am I right?

>> Correct. >> So, the reason I ask you that is because that's part of the issue. Your wife needs to be working at minimum 40 hours.

Seasonal work for people who are broke and are worrying about bankruptcy is not an option. There is no seasonal work.

You work every season. You're working 60 hours a week for a season,

right?

Mhm.

>> You said that like that's interesting, but like you didn't believe me.

>> Um, I mean, we have a 14-year-old.

I've, you know, I've encouraged her to get more of a regular job for many years. And >> why are we talking about the Yeah, but the 14-year-old is self-sustaining. The 14-year-old can let themselves in from school. I've I've raised three kids. My youngest is 18 now. I'm not worried about the 14-year-old. That's an excuse.

Why isn't she making more money?

>> I'm just telling you where she's at. She >> I get it. But >> she's like resentful of the fact even that she has to work at all.

>> Well, that's a problem, but I'm You called us for financial advice and you guys need more income. So, let's shift.

All right. I can't solve the marriage problem. I can't solve that issue.

>> But I can tell you this. I can tell you $3,600 changes your life >> without question. >> $3,600 a month. >> So, let's shift it to you, okay? because she's resentful for working and you're calling us. She's not on the phone. So, with the skills you have, can you pick up overtime or go to a second job? And what this basically means is roughly 2500 bucks a month or even 2,000 bucks a month would make a big difference. Can you do that, Josh?

>> I could. Yeah. >> Well, that's our I've worked I've worked two jobs uh many points in my life.

>> Great. Um, but still like so say I came

up with an extra three grand >> a month to pay down this debt. That's

>> even if I'm putting every dollar of that, that's 36 grand a year.

>> It would still take me what, five years,

four or five years. >> It's going to take you between three and four years if you go intensely to pay this off.

>> Right. So my question is,

as an alternative to that, what if I just filed for bankruptcy,

got rid of as much of this debt as possible? >> What if I told you? What if I told you I spent seven and a half years paying off $460,000 of debt

>> and I didn't file for bankruptcy?

>> I think that's awesome. I'm just kind of I'm older now. >> Why are we different?

How old are you?

>> I'm 47. >> Bro, don't be bringing that to me. I'm 51. >> You're not old. >> Here's here. And here's why. Here's here's why. When you file bankruptcy, the control goes out of your hands.

>> Yeah. Do you understand what it looks like?

>> I don't think you do. Go ahead, Jay. Paint the picture. >> No, not exactly.

>> They're going to decide. They're going to make all the decisions depending on which chapter you file. They're going to make all decisions. They're either going to say, "Hey, we're going to put you on a payment plan," which is honestly something you can do yourself.

They're going to look at your assets and they're going to say, "We're going to sell off these assets and these assets and we're going to put that towards the debt." That's something that you can decide to do for yourself. It's going to tank your credit. That's something that's already happened or going to happen anyway. Do you see what I'm saying?

So, why relinquish control when you have the opportunity here to go, "Okay, I can look at my assets. I can determine what I want to sell off, when I want to sell it off, how I want to sell it off.

Here's how much I can put towards it." And that's that's what I want to retain for you is the dignity of being able to make your own choices and not h them come in and have your stuff sold out from under you and all the choices made for you. That's what I'm trying to save you from. I've never experienced bankruptcy. Dave Ramsey has.

and he would sit here and tell you, you can work your way through this. And I'm telling you from my experience of paying off debt, the next four to 5 years, they're not going to be fun. I can tell you that right now. It's not going to be something that's enjoyable.

There will be enjoyable parts of life, but working two to three jobs is not going to be the enjoyable part. But what is going to feel good is knowing that you made some mistakes. You made a bit of a mess, but you're also the same person that can turn back around and clean it up. There is dignity in that.

And there is something there's a confidence that's built in that.

Guaranteed, Ken. >> Oh, there's no question. I think Joshua, what we're hearing is a guy who feels like he's ready to give up. You called us going, I think this is my last shot.

This is the Hail Mary. the clock's ticking down and I only have a 55 yard pass and I hope someone catches it and I think it's bankruptcy and we're telling you that's not the case. You got to believe I do tell you you've got a marriage issue. You guys got to get on the same page.

I get that she don't want to do it but I think you guys are in the have to stage.

All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsay trusted agents

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If you're working the baby steps, the best and fastest way to do it is by using Every Dollar. It's more than just a budgeting app. The plan is built right in. You can track your progress, plus get personalized recommendations and coaching for your situation. It's like having one of us walk with you every day, showing you the next right step.

You can start every dollar for free by downloading it in the App Store or Google Play. All right, let's get to Alex right here in our backyard in Nashville. Alex, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys, uh me and my wife are recently married. We have a 10-month-old. Um we're about $35,000 in combined debt.

Uh, I make about $84,000 a year before

tax and she recently started doing photography. Uh, and that's bringing in uh kind of a slow passive income. Uh, we have about $13,000 saved and I'm about

to receive a $10,000 bonus. So, we're just trying to figure out how to navigate this debt.

>> Okay. $10,000 bonus. I was just writing everything down. When do you get the bonus? I al uh I was supposed to get it

uh this past paycheck uh but I work for the government so um there's no telling

it could be next paycheck or 3 months from now so I'm not super depending on that right away. >> Um but I was wondering what the best course of action would be to do with that. I also recently found out that I have a pension from an old uh job that I

have that I didn't know about >> and I have to decide what to do with that. How much >> as well? >> Uh there's about $13,000 in that. And when I called them a week ago, they said that I can leave it in that uh fund for

up to 5 years after separation uh from that police department and it'll grow at a guaranteed 5%. Or I can transfer it to my new retirement or I can withdraw it and take a penalty. >> Um I would transfer it to retirement.

Uh I would not pull it out. It's if if it's retirement funds, I'd keep that retirement fund at this point because the penalty will be what? Not just that you're taxed on it, income tax, but will there be a 10% penalty?

>> Uh, I believe she said it was 20.

>> Oh, yeah. We're keeping that locked in.

So, yeah, I would do if you're able to do a direct transfer roll over and just roll it over to an IRA, I I would do that. So, let's take that let's take that money off the table. So, we've got the 13,000 saved. We've got a $10,000 bonus that's coming at some point. We don't really know exactly when. Um, so that gives us in theory 23, but today just the 13. So, are you familiar with the baby steps?

>> I am. Uh, we're on baby step two. Been on it for quite a while. We spent the last two years paying off about $80,000 worth of private student loans. >> Oh, wow. Very good. Very good. So, this 35,000 is just the tail end. What kind of What kind of debt is it?

Uh 18 of it is a government student loan

for me. Uh three of it is a government student loan for her. Three of it is a credit card that she had before our marriage. And am I missing any?

>> Uh yes.

>> Oh, sorry. About 11 of it is a vehicle.

>> Okay. Okay. So, yeah, I'm going to look

at this and I'm going to reverse engineer it and I'm going to say, how quickly do I want to pay off this $35,000 of debt and that's going to inform how hard we work going forward.

Is that fair enough?

>> Yeah. >> So, I don't know if you've gone into Every Dollar, but in Every Dollar, there's a really cool feature in there.

It's a financial roadmap feature where you can basically go in, plug in your numbers, and it'll say based on what you're doing today, here's how quickly you can pay this debt off. So my question to you is how much margin do you have to throw out this debt every single month?

>> Uh well we just recently sat down to do a complete overhaul of our finances. Um and I would say currently like excluding her photography maybe 500 a month.

>> Okay. 500 a month. So you brought up the photography. I want to actually talk about the photography because I think that's part of you guys breaking this thing free. You didn't include it in your $84,000 of debt, which makes me think there's not a whole lot I'm sorry, in your $35,000 of debt, which makes me think that there's not a whole bunch of money being made from that. How much is she bringing in every month?

Well, she started it uh two months ago and she initially was booked out uh every weekend for a month and she did all those shoots for free and now she's doing shoots for about 100 uh a shoot and she's doing usually two a day Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

>> Yeah. I want to go back into the numbers here. You have a car loan for $11,000.

What's the payment on that every month?

>> It's about 500. Um, I wanted to when we

got married, uh, we talked about just selling it and getting something cash.

Uh, unfortunately there's some damage to the vehicle. So, >> Alex, I I don't know why we're not talking about the $13,000. You said you're walking the baby steps. Well, if you're in the baby steps, you shouldn't have $13,000.

>> Half of that has to go. >> You should have 12,000 at your disposal today. And if it's me, I'm going to pay that car off. I know that's not the smallest debt that you have.

Or maybe it is. I can't remember what the number >> got 3,000 in credit cards and 3,000 in >> I don't know if you're okay with that, but I want to pay that car off and get that $500 a month back and that's going to take care of that credit card payment fast.

>> Well, the reason that we had so much saved is because originally we were living with my family and we didn't know how much money we needed because we're first-time parents. So, we'd saved it up and then I just didn't know Yeah.

>> the best way to >> No shame at all. I'm just saying, you know, I'm not cracking on you. I love that you've been responsible. I'm just saying that's $12,000 you have to to

tackle this stuff. >> Mhm. You know, at this point, yeah, if you wanted to pay off the car first, fine. If you wanted to do typical B uh, you know, debt snowball method, knock out the credit card for 3,000, knock out the student loan, and then come back and hit the car. That's fine. The point here is you've got $23,000 to pay off. And

how quickly can you do that? If you throw 2,000 a month at that, you're done in 6 months, right? If you throw a thousand a month at it, you're done in a calendar year, right? >> And if a wife goes to work, Jade, full-time and still does the photography part-time, we're only talking about a season. We're not telling her to shut the dream down, right? >> Just go get a $30,000 job or something.

And boy, we're out of this quick, >> real fast, >> right? >> But you guys are going to have to I think this is your first encounter with kind of like that sacrificial lifestyle.

And you're going to feel it. Well, you're either going to feel it in time.

You're going to feel it in your wallet.

You're gonna feel it in the things that you wish you were doing with your money instead. The things that you wish you were doing in with your time instead.

Because I can guarantee you this, Ken, nobody likes a side hustle.

>> No, >> nobody likes working extra hours and nobody likes doing it for 12 months. So, we'll go ahead and that's a gimme. We'll tell you that that that that's the truth. But if you're asking us, hey, how do we do it? That's the method. You keep $1,000 saved as baby step one. You take anything else that you have saved and you apply it to your debt using the debt snowball method. That's smallest to largest by balance. You knock them out.

And then from there on, now you're on to being able to take that money, save up 3 to six months of emergency funds. But baby step two is the kicker because that's where the sacrifice lies, >> right? >> What are your thoughts?

>> Uh, no. I mean, that's exactly what I was looking for. Um, I guess I was just kind of looking for the green light to go ahead and just dump the 12 and keep the 1,000 uh saved. And I I really wanted clarification on the pension as well.

And >> yeah, >> uh, I guess I'll just move that over to my current retirement instead of throwing it at the desk. Correct. >> Yeah, because it's most of it will get sucked up anyway if you do this. If you said there's a 20% penalty, you'll be taxed on your income tax.

Yeah, I would not touch that. Please just roll that over. Um, and make sure your wife's on board with this. >> Yeah.

uh uh federal law enforcement.

>> Yeah. Are you able to pick up, you know,

um part-time work, you know, in that

>> I am not, but I the nice thing is I have guaranteed salary increases. So, say in October of this year, I'm going to get a $20,000 pay raise. In October of next year, it'll be the same. >> Great. Well, if your wife is willing to just for a season, uh start making more

money and uh boy, you you guys are going to be out of this. I I'm going to tell you right now, we've heard too many stories. So, I'm going to challenge you to be out of debt in 10 months.

>> I think you totally have that in the bag. >> That's, you know, I I I that's going to require again sacrifice and stretching, you know, as far as more work, but I I think you guys can do that.

>> Yes, sir. >> I appreciate you guys. >> Yeah, I appreciate you. Thanks for all that you've done to serve our community and uh in our country. That's great. Uh you know, this is very interesting. You said something that I wanted to bring back to you to young couples that are out there listening and they're new to this. >> Yeah. >> You said this is your first time. You're talking to Alex, you know, and his wife.

It's your first time reaching this thing where we've got to come together and sacrifice. And you and Sam have always been the model of that. Encourage young couples. >> Yeah. This is good for your marriage.

Whenever you can lock arms, whenever you can band together and gang up against the thing that's trying to horn in on your marriage, your life, your relationship, your dreams for each other, that is so solidifying. And what you get the opportunity to to prove to each other is I can count on you and you can count on me. If Sam says he's going to do it, he does it. If Jade says she's going to do it, she does it. That is the best thing. It builds trust and security in your marriage and wealth.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

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>> Okay, today's question comes from Brooke in Alabama. My husband and I are in baby step two with about 50,000 in debt. We

are also in stor mode, meaning they have a baby on the way. I love that my husband has a generous heart, but we always go over budget with tithing and gift giving and never make progress paying off debt. I suggested that we buy smaller gifts for now so that we can be more generous in the future, but he won't consider doing this. Am I being stingy or is he being too generous for our means? Okay, so I want to start by

uh differentiating between the tithing and the giftgiving. So, if you're a tither, that means that you're a Christian person and you have the belief of giving 10% of your earnings to a

local church. And it sounds like they have that belief. So, I'm going to decouple that from the gift giving because if that's a a religious value or

conviction that you have, that needs to be part of your budget, I would say, whether you are in baby step two or not.

So for most of us, myself included, even when we are in baby step two, tithe is at the top of the list. Giving is at the top of the list. We never stop tithing.

I would not recommend you do that. Now, if the tithe, aside from the giftgiving, if that is causing you to go over budget, that means there's something else that's wrong. Either there are other items in your budget that are over inflated or your income is an issue.

Right, Ken? I mean, that that's what I would say. Yeah. So, that would be my first I' I'd put my detective hat on and I'd say, "Okay, are we going over the budget simply if we tithe? If we stop the gift giving, are we still in the red?" And if that's the case, we have further work to do. All right, let's talk about the giftgiving side of it.

Um, in baby step two, I think that you

need to be very choosy uh parsimmonious in your in your gift giving because

generosity generally flows out of overflow and you don't really have that.

So, I would be very thoughtful about if

I'm giving, when I'm giving, and how much I can actually put towards it because you can't be putting yourself in the red being generous.

>> Yeah. You know, Yeah. You just can't give gifts right now. I mean, if we're not Are we talking about your kids?

>> Are we talking about the birthday? Exactly. >> We talking about Christmas, what are we talking about? But if we're talking about like, hey, you know, Larry, um, Larry's retiring. I'd like to get him a golf head cover. It's like, no, man.

You're broke. >> We're all chipping in for Janice. You know, she's getting >> Janice. I can tell you who doesn't need a gift. It's Janice. >> She don't need it. She's got cats at home. She don't need anything.

>> She's >> That is so >> She's nickn There's like hundreds of thousands of Janicees that are listening to us right now. We're going to get slack for that.

>> Janice, we love you. I'm also We love you, Janice. >> Yeah, that's funny. Uh, good stuff there. Let's go to Kylie now in Dallas, Texas. Kylie, how can we help?

Kylie. >> Hi. Hi. How are you? >> Good. How are you? >> I'm doing well. I'm calling um with a quick question regarding my husband and I. We actually have no debt, strong savings, and invest constantly um and

consistently, but we feel very stuck.

We're hesitant to make big decisions like buying a home or spending because we don't want to make the wrong move. So we just are looking for clarity on what we can actually afford and how to move forward confidently without overthinking everything. >> Great. All right. So let's take the thinking out. Let's just look at the numbers. How about that? Is that okay?

>> Sure. >> Okay. So what is your combined income?

>> Um combined income is my husband makes

200k a year. Um, and then he gets a

quarterly bonus that ranges between 20

and 35,000.

>> So, let's split the difference there, right? Let's go 25,000 just for fun.

It's not truly splitting. I know for those of you keeping score, >> but let's say so that's another 100,000.

>> Correct. >> So, 300,000. Do you bring any income in?

>> I do not currently. I've >> So, 300K, what do we have saved?

We have um around 250,000 in a high

yield savings account.

>> Great. What do you have in your retirement accounts?

>> We have 50K in um a brokerage investment

account and maxed out um the Roth IAS

and we also max match the 401ks.

>> So what's your total investment in nest nest egg right now? What is it at

>> including the 401k? Yeah, >> I'm not sure.

>> I I'd love to know. Minus the 50,000. So the 50,000 is the only non-re nonretirement investing that you have.

>> I believe so. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I was just trying to get a full picture. The bottom line is you have $250,000 in cash in a high yield savings

account, which is way above what your 3 to six months emergency fund would be.

and uh you're you and and you got a great income.

>> So, what type of house? What what what's the price point for the house that if you had all the money right now? I don't want scared, Kylie. I want Kylie who's dreaming because she can get any house she wants to get uh within, you know, obviously we're not talking about any house. That that was poorly worded. What is the house you want to get? >> Yeah. Just give me the price range

>> for the school district that we would prefer to be in. The entry level homes

are probably around a million.

>> Okay. Okay. And so when I look at that,

you know, our rule of thumb here is you don't want uh your monthly payment on that to be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. And of course, that's everything in that's HOA, uh, taxes, insurance, all of that um, is included in that price. So, my question to you

is, if we were to

get on a mortgage calculator and plug those numbers in, you've got the two, and this is what I would do tonight with your husband. Technically, at your disposal, I would take the 250,000 that's in the HYSA, and I would knock it down to six months of expenses. What would you call six months of expenses?

>> Um, currently without having any debt, we're renting. Our rent is 3,000 a month. No car notes, no anything. So, um, I'll say 6,000 a month.

>> Okay. Uh, okay. So, 36,000.

We save that out. Does that feel good?

We'll round it up to 40. That makes me feel good. Okay. So, now we're playing with $210,000.

So, what I'd be looking at is what's you guys' take-home pay?

>> Um, his take-home is um 6,000 after

taxes uh a paycheck. So, >> 6,000? That doesn't sound right. On a three, you say this man makes 300,000 a year. >> Well, it's bon he gets quarterly bonuses. So, just from the 200k, it's a little over 5,000 a paycheck.

>> So, >> so a little under 12,000 a month takehome. >> Okay, there you go. >> Okay. So, what I would be doing is I would be looking for a mortgage of around $3,000, give or take. That would

be my goal, that you're paying every single month. So, then what I'm going to do is I would go into a, you know, mortgage calculator. I'm using the one on Ramsey Solutions. And I'd say, okay, what do I have to put down in order to get my mortgage into that placement?

And then I'd work backwards from there.

Right now, you got 210 you could throw in there. And if you wanted to get into this brokerage account, you could.

That'd give you 260 if you wanted to.

There's really no penalty in you doing that. And I'm looking at a 15-year fixed rate. If I do that, if I put $260,000

down on this million-doll house, that gives me a monthly mortgage payment of $7,955 estimated for you. That's too high. So

then I go, okay, what if we doubled that? What if we saved up, you know, 250 more over the course of time? How quickly could I do that? Now I'm putting 500,000 down on this house. When I do that, suddenly my mortgage is down to $5,800.

Right? So that's the game I would play.

And that's going to help you know how much money do we need to have saved up in order to do this in a way that feels good. It feels right.

>> Right. Um would you recommend in the

meantime to just continue renting in the

school district that we would want to be? >> I would. Yeah, I would. I think that that's where you guys want to be. And all you're doing is when you're renting, you're just buying time. You're buying time and you're buying money to stack up for this down payment. And I think that that's a great investment for you guys.

You're going to be there in the next 2 to 3 years.

Dave Ramsey here. Most people stay stuck with their money because they're not paying attention to it. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, stressed out and broke. Don't be most people. You

work way too hard to be broke and feel

broke. and you deserve to have something to show for it. That's why we built the Every Dollar Budget app. It gives you a personalized plan for your money that shows you how to free up extra money every month and use it to beat debt and build lasting wealth. Plus, you get real coaches guiding you through your plan step by step. Look, most people hearing this will just keep hoping something changes, but not you. You're ready to make change happen starting now. Go

download Every Dollar in the App Store or Google Play and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day is First Thessalonians 5:11. and therefore encourage one another and build each other up just as in fact you are doing our quote of the day from David Brinkley. A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown in him.

>> I promise you I've done that.

>> I've done that a couple times in life.

That always feels nice.

>> Chris is up in Atlanta, Georgia. Chris, how can we help today?

>> Hey, I was calling uh had a question. I wanted to get you guys opinion on if the vehicle that me and my wife are looking to purchase is in line with our current financial picture. >> Okay. Tell us about it, how much it costs.

>> All right. Um looking at two different uh trucks and one of them that I really like is $45,000 uh dollar.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> What's the other one?

>> Uh the other one's 35,000.

>> Okay. And uh what else do we need to know here? So do you have any debt?

Uh, no sir, no debt. Uh, just a mortgage. >> And what do you have saved up for this vehicle?

>> Uh, well, currently in retirement savings, I have uh 272,000 uh in a traditional 401k through my employer. >> Uh, and me and my wife, we have $115,000

liquid cash in a savings account.

>> Uhhuh. And what is your uh combined income?

Uh last year my taxable income was $187,000.

Uh my wife makes 35,000.

So after tax bring home uh between 150 and 160. >> Right. So you've got more than enough to cover it looks like the truck plus have a good uh 3 to six month emergency fund in cash. Correct.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. And really where the question comes from is we just bought my wife uh a new vehicle after having our first child. Uh we did that with cash.

Um, and it was $37,500

vehicle. Uh, we paid cash for that and

we we have cash to pay. We'd be paying cash for the truck as well. It just felt like a lot of money, you know, within two months of each other. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, you've got it. What would you of the 115,000?

What would you consider your 3 to six months of emergency fund?

>> Uh, we, you know, probably 25,000.

Oh, okay. Well, it sounds like you've got the margin there. Did you have the money possibly earmarked for something else? Because usually when you're saving up, you know, a stack of money like that, you're doing it for a purpose.

>> Otherwise, you'd be investing it, right?

>> Correct. Yeah. And I mean, um, you know, for me, I've just always been, you know, when I soon as I get paid, I move everything over that I don't need for the month to a savings account. And, >> um, >> and you just said it right there. it that way. But >> your language there that should set you free free because you said um >> what you need you keep in your account and what you don't need you move over.

So that that means you don't need this money. It's not earmarked for anything else and you're wanting to upgrade a vehicle. And what I'm looking at is the numbers of someone who can afford to do that. You don't have any debt. You've got the emergency fund of 25,000. you can spend another 45,000 and you've

still got plenty of money left over. Uh you've got a great income. It doesn't uh go against our rule. Rule of thumb here at Ramsey is we say vehicles shouldn't go shouldn't be more than half of your annual take-home pay. And and that's because, you know, vehicles go down in value. And so we want to make sure that we're limiting that. So you're not, you know, you're not going against that rule. I think this is just kind of a personal >> Yeah. Are you What's your emotion?

because you called us to get our take. What was your emotion about it? What did you think you should do? >> Yeah, it just felt like a lot of money.

Um I mean, >> well, it is it is a lot of money.

>> Whenever we you know, whenever we bought our house, we put 20% down. So, we wrote a big check then. Um you know, we paid cash for my wife's vehicle. We would pay cash for this one as well, >> right? No. Does But does the 35 >> our only debt, >> right? But my I'm leaning in here. Does the 35 feel way better to you than the 45 or is it very little difference?

Well, the main reason I called because the 45 is the truck that I want. The 35 is where my wife was coming from.

>> Right. No, I get it. But I'm I'm asking again, is there a different feeling in

your gut, in your head, however you want to measure it. Is there a different feeling about the 35 if I paid 35 for something versus 45? That's what I'm trying to understand, >> right? On my behalf, no sir.

>> Great. >> I'm very comfortable with the 45.

>> Right. my wife then. >> Okay. And that's what I thought. I thought there was And so that's the that's where the relationship stuff comes in. So now to me, and again I'm I'm speaking from a guy who's been married almost 28 years.

>> Uhhuh.

>> If Jade if Stacey and I are very

separate on 10 grand.

>> Uhhuh. >> I'm going to choose 10 grand less to be

in in a better situation. Maybe I would I would I would push it a little bit because >> of course >> I would because expense something being denoted expensive is all is all has to

do with ratio >> and correct >> I don't I yes but that you're discounting emotion >> mathematically yes >> now and and I would put that to her because obviously numbers and facts have the ability to affect emotions I agree >> and so if she doesn't have the right numerical facts >> that's Do you see what I'm saying? So, I would push that just a little bit. >> These are Yeah. Again, I'm not telling you not to do it.

I'm just giving you my take and I think that the what I'm trying to get out of that and I love that you push back on this because what I'm saying is then you got to cast vision better. >> Yeah, that's true. >> You're not casting enough to where she feels safe. For some reason, in her mind, she feels safe emotionally with 10 grand less.

>> True. >> So, we got to cover that. You got to fix that. >> Let me ask this cuz I didn't clarify this. Are these brand new vehicles or are these used vehicles?

>> These are used vehicles. >> Okay. Yeah, that Yeah, I I I hear what Ken is saying. What I My thought is this

is why you work so hard. You work so hard. I agree with that. >> And you stack up and you save and you scrimp and you do all these things so that the day finally comes where you look in the lot and you go, >> that's the truck I want. I get it.

>> I like that one. >> But when the wife is going, I don't think you need that one. This one's better. He's got to deal with it. Yes.

But at the same time, I'd be like, "Come on, woman. Don't kill my vibe because this is why I did all this." >> Only you can say that. Cuz any dude that's got half a brain doesn't look at his wife and say, "Come on, woman. Don't kill my vibe." >> I'm saying Chris, how comfortable are you? Numbers. Yeah. Chris, how comfortable are you saying that?

>> I'm going to rewind this and let Jade say it for me. >> That's my point. Which is, by the way, really smart. That's a pro move. Let Jade say it. I would rewind it. >> Okay. What What's What's your wife's name if you want to say it? >> Oh, boy. Uh Ashley, >> Ashley, this is this is you and me talking over lunch.

>> You know, you guys have done so well.

You got to live a little. This is what gives people gas in their tank when they get to take, you know, the the spoils of the war and go out and do something with it and have a good time. And by the way, Ashley, you you can get yourself a little something, too. That's what I think. I think you've earned it.

>> I'm backing away from the mic, Ashley.

I'm just saying they've done so well and they're doing so well. >> I'm having fun. I I agree with you actually. Uh that the the $10,000 if I'm

talking to Ashley, I'm going to go, let's walk through this. Let's walk through the 10,000 difference. Yeah.

>> You feel so comfortable with 35.

>> So, I want to walk through this with you. >> Let's let's walk through it and not minimize her feelings.

>> Let's walk through it. Uh and let her get all of her words out. Um, and instead of having a counterpoint to her words, ask a question in response.

>> There you go, Ken. You're so diplomatic.

I love it. >> Well, it it's not diplomat. It's It's just psychology 101. And I think she for

some reason doesn't feel safe. She's going to get to watch this and I actually think she should watch it because I think she'll see our heart. We're having a little fun with it. Uh, but yeah, I think it's fine for you to get the $45,000 truck. Just We spent all this time talking about these trucks. What are the two trucks? >> Yeah. Uh it's a uh one of them is a 2022

uh Ford F-150 King Ranch uh and the

other one is the same at 2019 uh and a

little bit difference on the mileage as well. >> Right. So the 2022 is the $45,000 one.

>> Correct. Yes, sir. >> You know, I haven't seen these newer King Ranches, but I I had a friend who had a King Ranch when they first came out. That is a nice truck. It's nice.

>> And I'm not a truck guy. If I showed up in a truck, people be like, "What happened to you?" Oh, I'd be concerned.

But everybody in the studio is like shaking their head like, "Yeah, that's the one." >> Yeah, I Yeah, I think that's a good move. So, hey, I think uh her favorite

dinner, her favorite restaurant, >> her favorite cocktail, >> maybe a gift. >> Maybe a gift. And And dude, woo her on

this truck.

>> That's not manipulate. That's woo.

>> Wooing. >> That's a big difference. And I think I think if you woo, you're going to go woo woo when you get that big old King Ranch truck. Thanks for calling, man. I appreciate it. And hey, to the rest of you, thanks for being with us. Remember this, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 274. You Have To Clean Up Your Financial Mess Before Building Wealth | October 1, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

The phone number here is8825-55225.

Leslie is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hi Leslie, how are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, thanks for taking my call. Um, I have a dilemma. I'm recently married and

I'm selling my home and move I've moved

in to his home on his family farm that's

been in the family for a hundred years.

We need to put a new house on the property. We are looking to spend about $150,000 on that. However, I am hesitant to go

into debt on a mortgage on a property

that is going to be 100% willed to his grandson.

>> Uh, >> it's likely that >> I'm sorry. >> That he'll >> Yeah. So, he's going to he's going to he's going to leave the property to his grandson. What's that going to leave you in?

nothing. I mean, I can stay there, you

know, but I know 100% that I won't want

to stay there after he passes.

>> And it's likely that the mortgage will still be in existence cuz he's a he's

like 11 years older than me.

>> Yeah. >> And so I'd be paying on a mortgage for a house that I'm giving away to someone else.

>> Yeah. Well, that doesn't work, does it?

>> It doesn't. What what should I do?

>> What should he do?

He's in this, too. I mean, he wants to leave this land to his uh grandson, and

I that's kind of understandable if it's been in the family for generations. I get that. But also, making your new wife homeless is not understandable.

>> Yeah. >> Or or mortgaged up to her eyeballs. How old is he?

>> 57.

>> And how old are you?

>> 46. >> Okay. >> So, 10 year difference there. And have you talked to him about the idea of it passing to you first and then it then you turning around and willing it to the grandson when you pass?

>> Yes, he would do that. The thing is I don't want to stay there because it I have no family there, you know, it's I would want to move closer to where like my family is. It's like out in the country. I wouldn't want to be there by myself and >> health wouldn't be able to >> do you see this happening relatively soon?

Um, no. I mean, I hope not. Obviously,

>> this could be 30 years.

>> I I guess that's what I'm saying. You're willing to live there 30 years. 30 years

>> and and all those people that you want to move towards, they might not even be there then. >> Yeah.

>> So, um >> I think you just don't want to live on that land.

>> I kind of think you don't either. I I think I'd buy I'd buy a couple acres across the street and build a house there that is yours and his together.

and then the family farm is intact to be left to his grandson >> and uh it's not interfering with you all building a life together. >> I think the problem is when you tried to build a life together on something that is not going to be yours and that's where it got complicated. So I think you got to build it somewhere else.

>> Yeah. The problem is we would have to spend a lot more money if we did that.

>> Well, when >> like closer to double double the amount of money. >> Why? >> No. No, not double because the land is

not unless you're going to buy a whole bunch of land.

I mean, if you bought one acre across the street, it's not anywhere near double.

>> Well, to and to put a house on it.

>> Well, you're going to put a house on it anyway.

>> Yeah, but it it would be like 300 to 400,000. >> You're going to build a house anyway.

The only difference is the land under it, >> right? We're h remember we're trying to help you solve the problem. When you called, you said the problem is if I live on this land, it's not going to be mine. So that was problem number one.

You want something that's yours and you want to be able to get to your family when the time comes. So you want the freedom to be able to sell it, do whatever. So we're trying to help you accomplish that because the other option is you move elsewhere closer, I don't know, closer to your family and buy something there, right? That's the other option in the complete other direction.

>> Okay. So either way, the point is either way you're going to have to spend some money. >> Does he live on property now?

>> Yeah, we live in the old farmhouse that is beyond renovation.

>> Okay. Yeah. I I can tell you what I would do. I would move off of the property to somewhere else and I would

rent out the old house that's beyond renovation until it's beyond rental even and just let the property sit there and it's going to his grandson. I would not combine your lives on that property.

>> I'd let that property be what it is.

It's legacy generational property and you're tangling up two things. You're trying to accomplish two goals with one piece of property and it can't do it.

>> You're asking it to do too much.

>> Yeah. It's almost the equivalent of like you marry a guy and he's got like his bachelor pad apartment and he wants you to move into the apartment and you're like, I don't really want to live here.

I'm only doing this to make you happy.

Right? And then he goes on, he's like, you're not going to still live in the bachelor pad. Do you want to live where you want to live? You want a a foundation that you start together where you both feel like this is our home where we live together. >> Yeah. The only other thing I could do is you could plat off one acre off of the family property, build the house on that one acre >> and that one acre is deed to you,

>> not to the grandson.

>> But it would be tough to get >> and then and then you sell that. If you want to offer it to the family when you get ready to sell it before you sold it to the public, that's fine. But when he dies, you're going to move anyway. By the way, wherever you move to when he dies, you're going to move according to you.

>> But that's also the assumption that 30 years later, the grandson is going to want to keep up this land and wants the land, right? >> 30 years later that the family you're going to move next to are still alive, >> right? There's a lot there. >> Yeah.

So, you know, we're really really really But I think you are wise to recognize that this is not a good system. It's not a good plan.

>> I would do something different. So, you know, carve off an acre. That way, you could sell that acre in that house when you got ready to leave and after he passes and the family loses one acre of the family farm. Um, if the family farm

is two acres, then I guess that's a big deal. But if it's a 200 acres, it's not a big deal. So, um, you know, decide how

that's going to work and then, um, or literally go across the street off the family farm and build something. I don't care what you do. >> And be smart about where you plot it out. If you pull it out smack dab in the middle.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You don't want to do that.

>> The corner. The corner. Yeah. Off in the corner.

And And um that way it doesn't harm the value of the property and it doesn't leave you with something that's not marketable when you get ready to sell. >> Right. Right. >> So yeah, you but some but just the you're correct in that going forward with the plan that's on the table is a bad idea.

>> Um it's not going to end well >> sooner, later whenever this is. I mean, the grandson could be really old >> by the time you're really old. >> Also true. >> You know, I mean, it's um he's 57, so this grandkids probably six.

>> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. And so 30 years from now, he's 36 or 40 years old when when papa dies.

Yeah. I mean, that's a whole different thing. >> Yeah. And he might decide he doesn't want the land. He sells it to somebody.

Now, suddenly, you don't like your neighbors.

>> You know, there's a lot a lot can happen in 30 years. >> Mhm. you know, >> and a lot will happen >> in 30 years. That's very interesting.

Very interesting. Good question. But you're you're recognizing I think the bottom line is you're asking this piece of property to do things it cannot do.

>> It can only do one. It can only do one of the two things. It can't do both.

>> And so you're not going to be on the property if you're wise.

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Karina is in Washington. Hi Karina. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

I have a question. I'm trying to figure

out the best way for me to proceed. So, earlier this year, I had picked up a second job because I wanted to save up for a house. And that's what I've been

doing thus far. And I learned that my current second job actually offers a Roth 457b.

And so now I'm wondering, should I put more money into my 457b so that when I leave I can roll it over into my Roth IRA or if I should continue saving all

my money for a house?

>> I'd save all your money for a house.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. Are you you got your emergency fund in place and you're debtree, right?

>> Correct. >> Okay. And you're going to save up your down payment and then you're going to start your retirement savings. Correct.

>> Yes. How far how far are you until being

done with the down payment? >> How long would it take you?

>> It really depends. In our area, houses are pretty pricey, so they average about 500K and I have saved up 83K.

>> Oh, good. Okay. So, when do you think you're going to buy?

Um, originally I was thinking um that I would get a mortgage, but a month ago a co-orker of mine turned me on to the Dave Ramsey show and I read your book and started looking at your YouTube videos. And so originally I was thinking probably, you know, this fall or, you know, in the winter, but now I'm starting to think maybe I should wait another year, save up, and then either put a bigger down payment or whether I should wait for about four years and just try to buy a house in cash.

>> Wow. What's your income?

Um, originally I had started with about 70K and right now it's probably going to be about 160 with a two jobs.

>> 160. >> That's great. >> Correct. >> Wow. Nice bump from 70. What' you do?

>> Um, I am in biotech and I have an IT

job. >> So, what are you thinking? You'll live on 60. Is that the plan? And then in four years you'll have 500.

>> That's kind of what I'm hoping for.

Interesting. I I mean, I'm never going to discourage you from paying cash. Just know it's a moving target. So, there's part of me that says if I can get in the game earlier, I'm getting in the game earlier. So, just think that through.

>> Yeah. I I think I would go with your plan, but if this if the market starts moving on you, you maybe can jump >> in with the 300K down payment or something if you had to. But let's let's let's work your plan for right now.

>> I love that. >> That's very cool. Good for you.

Congratulations.

That'd be very sweet place to be.

>> That's We need more people with that mindset, I think. >> Talk about hustling, man. Hustle, hustle, hustle. Mike's in Pennsylvania.

Hey, Mike. How are you?

>> I'm doing well. How are you guys? >> Better than I deserve. How can I help?

>> Um, so thanks for taking the call. I have a pretty basically my situation here is I'm going to be receiving an annual bonus in a month, a few months, and I'm trying to decide what is the best use um for the cash. So current situation I have um a little more than a

emergency fund in the bank. I have about 50,000 in cash right now. About 25 of

which I would say is emergency fund related. And I'm going to be getting a bonus of 60,000 gross. So probably about

40,000 after taxes. Um between my wife

and I, we have about 50,000 in student loans. And then I have the only other debt we have is two mortgages. So, I have a um rental property that was originally my primary residence that I have about 80,000 left on and then I have my current primary residence that I have about 240,000 on.

>> Mh. >> Um and the simple thought was put the

money toward the student loans, pay them off completely, >> but the rate on my current mortgage is about 7%. Whereas the rate on my uh

rental mortgage is about 3.6 six and my student loans are at about five.

>> Well, you'd still have >> when I look at the long term. Yeah.

>> No, no. When you look at the long term, you're wrong. You look at the long term, you got to get rid of the stupid student loans. You're not going to prosper as long as you keep those things around.

This is not an investment strategy. This is stupidity. And you got to clean it up, >> right? So, the student loans was the that was the first one where I assumed that's what I should probably put it towards.

>> You're right. You assumed correctly. And then you'll still have uh you'll still have a little bit because like you said your emergency fund is inflated. So you'll still have a good chunk that >> I'd take 25 and put on student loan today.

>> Uh-huh. >> And when the bonus comes in, pay off the rest of student loans. >> That's right.

Your primary. Is that what you're trying to do? >> Yeah. Well, I'd have the primary mortgage and the rental mortgage. The primary just has a much higher rate. So, while I would assume like typically I would have paid down the rental, but the primary is a much higher rate, so I'll just have more savings for putting it toward that. >> What's the balances on the primary and on the rental? >> The the primary balance is about 240.

The rental is about 80. Um, and the rental is probably worth about 175 and the primary is only worth about 290ish.

>> Is the rental local?

>> They're both local. Yep. I manage the rental myself. I've had that for about seven years now. >> Good for you. Okay. I would clear the student loan, then I would clear the rental and I'd refinance the primary.

>> Okay. So, you would go toward the rental first after student loans. Okay. >> Just because not because of anything except it's just only 80 grand and you're going to knock it out cuz I smell a $200,000 income, don't I?

>> Yeah. I'm right around 160 right now before the bonus. And the bonus is annual, but it's not guaranteed. But I I typically do receive it. >> Yeah. Yeah. And so you're you're making 200k on average and almost like I've done this. And so, um, yeah. Yeah. With

200k, you're going to knock the 80 off pretty quick >> as well with you're sitting there with your emergency fund, refinance, get rid of that seven and some change because you can get a 5.7 right now on a 15 year. >> Yeah. >> Once the rental's gone, how much will you clear in profit every month? Just curious.

>> It's 2,200 a month right now. Gross rent. >> Yeah. Sweet.

So, so you're probably making 1,500 bucks a month, give or take whatever your property taxes are in Pennsylvania, which I don't know, but Yeah. Yeah.

And >> and that that's another >> what another 20,000 bucks a year that you can throw at >> at the primary. >> At the primary, but yeah, I'm going to refinance that primary because you're going to it's going to be more than two or three years before you get it paid off. And I want to get that rate down because that rate is a little bit jacked. >> But yeah, but here here's the thing.

when you're paying off debt, folks, really really fast like we are with this

student loan almost instantaneously and with the um the the inter on the uh the

uh >> the whole thing here is not even five years, >> right? >> The whole thing. Okay. And so when you're doing all that, then interest rates, the shorter the period of time in which you're going to pay off the debt, the less interest rates matter.

The only time interest rates matter is when you're playing them out 20 years, when you're playing them out 10 years, playing them out five years. But when you're paying off in four months, it's irrelevant. >> Negligible >> almost.

Cash flow is your problem, >> right? >> That's what you're leaning in on. So, good stuff. Dylan is in Fort Worth. Hey, Dylan.

>> Hey, Dave. It looks like I got the perfect duo today. I got the payoff debt queen and the real estate master. So happy to be back on again. It's been a few years. So my wife is listening. Um so we have a new surprise coming that

was very unexpected of a baby in of

course 9 months. So we bought our home

for 420 probably close to two years ago.

So we're not quite past that capital gains mark yet. Um if we were to sell it

now we're probably looking at 420 430.

Uh we owe 388. Um, I have a feeling I

know what you're going to tell me to do.

Um, we have 62 left in student loans and

that's from myself and my masters um,

from years ago. It's now been lingering like a pet for 10 years. Um, I think our big question is we're trying to reduce that monthly cash and increase that monthly cash flow. If we could be going

from like 3560 a month down to like 2500

to 2,800 which is what we see rentals going for the around here. Um probably a

game changer with cash flow. We could then throw all that in debt, stockpile money, go into stor mode until baby comes. >> What's your income? >> We've also seen what's your monthly take home pay? >> I have very irregular. So >> on a on a on a regular month >> quarterly, >> what do you make? What do you make a year? >> Six grand. >> What do you make >> this year? Will probably be about 150 for me, about 70 for her.

>> If a regular month is six grand, then yeah, you got to get out of this house. It's 50 is more than 50% of your take-home pay.

>> But 6 grand is not 150 plus 60. So those

numbers don't add up. So, um,

hang on. We're going to come back to you because I can't figure out what the flip you're doing. Hold on.

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All right, we're talking to Dylan uh who's got a baby on the way. Surprise.

It's awesome. And um we're trying to figure out exactly what's going on. If I remember, your house payment was 3,500 bucks. Is that right?

>> Yes, sir. And uh as my wife just text me, a baby wasn't a surprise, but we weren't sure if we were going to be able to have one. So, Got it. >> Um we were uh we were texting offline and we're roughly around 9 to 10,000 take-home pay a month. It's just I get paid commissions quarterly. So like every four months we have a big surge of like a 10 to $15,000 commission >> above the 9 to10k or that included in

the 9 to 10k. >> Correct. No, above above.

>> So you get 9 to 10k plus you get quarterly of around 15k

>> I'd say. So yeah. >> So you're averaging about 15k a month.

>> Yes. So the way I kind of have to budget it out is I kind of have to have those syncing funds ready. um to kind of know

what's what's coming over, you know, until the next quarter hits.

>> Well, that that may or may not be, but either way, what is your question is?

Can you afford this house? Yes, you can afford this house. Why are you wanting to move?

>> I think it's just that that monthly is so tight on us that it's not tight.

>> It's because you're not on a budget. >> It's not tight. >> I think >> you make $15,000 a month. You have a

$3,500 house payment. That's not tight.

>> Well, and I think it's only feels tight due >> because you're trying to live without and act like your commissions aren't real.

>> Probably true. >> Yeah. So, your commissions if you Let's pretend for a second. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's pretend for a second.

Let's pretend you got your commissions in your hand, $15,000, and you said, "I'm going to allocate $5,000 for each

of the next three months. I'm going to pull from that commission p bucket." >> And I'm going to put $5,000 on my $10,000 income. That's making me have $15,000 income for the next three months. Then when your next commission check comes in, you do the same thing.

You're trying to do this backwards, looking in the rearview mirror rather than looking out the windshield like I just outlined because you've not gotten ahead of it yet. When you do that, this is not going to feel tight at all.

>> Yeah. And I have been dropping each big check onto a truck painter. So, >> yeah. You're just acting like you're acting like you don't get those checks.

>> It's not even part of your budget. >> And the problem is that's leading you to a faulty decision on the house cuz you're acting like you can't afford the house. you can afford the house. If you don't want the house, that's a different issue. >> Mhm. >> You can, you're, you know, you're you're obviously a free person. You're allowed to sell the house if you want to. But not because I I I, you know, pretended

like a third of my income isn't there.

>> Yeah. So, for that for that first quarter, it's not there. And then when you receive it, then you can say, "Okay, for the next quarter, like you said, you're putting that 5,000 per month." >> Yeah. Or if you get if you get 18,000, it's 6,000 a month.

>> But now you're ahead of it. It's just that first quarter when you're not ahead of it. >> Yeah. You just got to say that.

And so you have three If you start my plan, you have three more tight months. >> That's right. >> And then you'll never have a tight month again. >> Yep.

>> It's the same thing with normal budgeting. When you get paid on the 30th, the 30th check goes to the next month.

Yeah. You can't wait to pay your house payment till the end of the month.

>> So yeah, you got to get ahead of it on all of this. Just a little a one month cash flow or in this case a threemonth because it's a quarterly commission check. That's right. So then you've just got to decide, do you want this house?

Do you like this house? Um,

so I I think what happened here is is the announcement of the child made you go, "Oh, we've got to really start." Yeah, you're Yeah, you do have to start now. That's good. That's really good.

Get get your get every We're going to give you a year of Every Dollar as a baby celebration. And uh I want you to

get in the new improved Every Dollar cuz it's going to guide you through everything. And it's um but you get ahead on the syncing funds, not behind them, right? And then quit ignoring the fact that you actually make this commission because you're throwing 100% of it at something else.

>> Um and no, we can't do that. So we it goes all goes into the plan. Then you

work the baby steps from the plan. And while doing that, you look at the ratio of your house payment and say, "Okay, I can afford this house. I choose not to." >> That's right. That's right. >> But it's not because it's in air quotes tight. >> That's right. Okay, now I feel better.

Nate is in Witchah, Kansas. Hey Nate, how you doing?

>> Better than I deserve. How are you, sir?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> My wife and I went through bankruptcy last year and into early this year because we just made an absolute mess of ourselves financially. And

um at the start of this year, we really decided to focus and commit ourselves to getting out of the rest of my student loan debt, which is all we have left.

and trying to live really disciplined.

We lost our car last year when we went through bankruptcy, obviously. Um, and

we've been just driving an absolute beater and we're trying to make it work.

Um, my daughter just turned three last month and I'm feeling very grateful for that and she's healthy and happy. Um,

but I'm just trying to maintain hope right now because it's it's it's hard.

It's so hard to stay disciplined, to stay focused, to not give into the

temptation to go back into debt, to have a nicer car so things are a little bit more reliable. >> What's your household income, sir?

>> Just under 70.

>> And how much is your house payment?

>> Uh, we're renting right now. It's uh just under a thousand. >> Okay. All right.

All right. And are you still putting money into your 401k?

>> Uh, no. I was pretty undisiplined through my 20s. Uh I just turned 31 uh

couple weeks ago. Uh we don't have any money in retirement yet. >> You're not putting any money out of your check into retirement?

>> Not yet. As soon as we get out of debt.

>> And how much student how much student loan debt do you have?

>> Just over 20,000.

>> Okay. All right. >> We've paid off about eight so far this year. >> Okay. the the um the thing is that that

you're facing the math is not as much of a problem as the emotions. Okay.

>> Right. And I know I know I'm just being emotional. >> Well, I mean it's it's you've been through hell and there's a shame that

goes with bankruptcy. It's um you're like labeling I'm a money failure, you

know, and you're not. Uh but you know, for a moment there you were, but you're not that way forever. And we're not going to stay that way forever. So, um,

uh, I remember how it shook my confidence when I went through that. And that's just very real. So, okay. Now, how do we fix that? Well, we need some quick wins. We need some small wins and that starts to build our confidence up.

And, um, the best place to do that is a budget. >> Don't you think, Jade? >> Yeah, >> I agree. Yeah. I I mean, I agree wholeheartedly.

So, I would um get your get, you know,

we again we'll give you every dollar for a year and it's the new improved every dollar and so it's going to guide you through the baby steps, but what you've got to do now is say, "Okay, we're going to look at the money coming in every month." Do you are you getting a tax refund?

>> Not much of one. I I set up my taxes so I don't end up giving the government a free of interest free loan.

>> Good. So you so you've done a lot of the things already that where you can find some margin. Every dollar will help you find some more margin. And um but with a

$1,000 house payment, you you've got some margin in this >> cuz you don't have any other payments now except the student loan. And so you

know, our first goal is to save $1,000.

Our next goal is start knocking off the student loan, making 70. You can probably do that in about a year if you live on beans and rice. And uh what your

confidence will come not because the

magic wand waves and gets rid of the student loan, but when you start being in control of your money instead of it being in control of you.

>> The hard the hard part is you're uh doing something that you've never seen done before, right? So we're you're attempting to pay off debt to become debtree and you've never been there before. And so the natural inclination is to say, I'm going to go back to what I know. That's the comfort zone.

Even though it's not good for me, even though it got me in bankruptcy, that's why you're like, you know what? I let me just go back to credit card debt. Let me just go back. And you're you're fighting yourself because you're you're heading towards a truly a brand new frontier for you.

And so, what you need is to keep engaging with people who have done it before so that it becomes more and more real to you and you can see it and it starts to become a normal reality.

Is that fair?

>> Definitely. So, keep engaging, keep being around here, watching these shows, listening to these debtfree screams. Get on social media, follow Rachel Cruz, follow Dave Ramsey, follow myself, and you're going to this is going to become normal to you what we're talking about.

And that's what you need so that it doesn't feel like this foreign thing that no one's ever done before.

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It's pretty incredible. Carl is in Cincinnati. Hey, Carl. What's up?

>> Hey Dave. Um, I'm calling here um under

some pretty crazy circumstances. So, uh, first off, I'll tell you my situation. I am a 100% disabled veteran from the Iraq

War. And um my income is strictly from

those sources. It's fixed. It goes up when the government decides to give us an increase, but that's about it. And I've navigated a lot of things quite

well, I know. Um my wife died a month

ago. >> Oh my gosh.

>> And uh yeah, it's been traumatic for my family. Um >> what happened?

>> She had a stroke in her sleeping to everything that happened. >> How old was she?

37 and she had a heart defect, but we didn't expect this to happen.

>> I'm so sorry. >> Goodness.

>> Wow. >> Um, we lost about 40% of our income when

she passed. And, um, gracefully, we at

least had some life insurance, which was just two years of her salary split evenly between her youngest, our youngest, and myself. Um, because of

that, I was already in the middle of the Dave Ramsey plan at the time and because

I wanted to do the right for my kids and set ourselves up and economize. We are

debtree other than our mortgage. Um, we

have six months of savings set up set aside largely due to because of that life insurance. Um, and I am just trying

to figure out with my income, which is about 81,000 a year. Just strictly that

trying to live comfortably while saving

for my son's future. Um, both my boys

got education benefits guaranteed to them so we don't have to worry about that. Um,

>> I want to try to invest.

>> How much? Stop. Stop a second. You're doing like 43 things at once and your wife just passed away.

>> Let's just calm down a little bit. Um >> yeah, >> I'm sorry, man. Um the

life insurance was how much?

>> Uh my share was 45,000 and the other was

Theodor's. And that's going to be in the certificate held until he's 18.

>> And how much is that?

>> About the same. About 45,000.

>> Okay. All right. And um so that was

structured wrong. Okay. Um

>> it was strictly through her work. It was a benefit through work. Yeah. >> Because of her heart defects, it was pretty hard to get her any insurance.

>> Yeah. But by structured wrong, I mean there should have been none left to the child in a certificate. That's horrible.

>> So you're treating the 45 as your emergency fund. Did I hear that right? I put that towards paying off um credit

card debt and the rest in the savings and economize economize. That's literally what I'm doing. >> Okay. And how much is your house payment?

>> 2,600 a month. And as soon as my lending

guy um a really dear friend of mine who works in the lending industry for veterans, he helped me get this house when I didn't have the credit to deserve it, but I got it anyway. Um, and as soon

as the rates are low enough for me to do an Earl, VA earl, I'm going to I'm going to lower the rate but not restart the loan. Um, that should hopefully bring me

down a few hundred a month once that hits. Um, but I can manage with what we

got right now. Um, >> okay. So, so if you got an $80,000 income, you have no debt except the house, you have some money in savings for you have some money in savings. You don't have to save for Theodore's future. You're fine.

My my thought was is I want to leave him something. I don't qualify for life insurance because of my disabilities.

>> I that is not my thought right now.

>> My thought right now is you get your house balanced. Quit worrying about saving for kids. >> Okay. He's got 45,000 bucks sitting there in a in a um and he's got free education because his dad served his country. Thank you for serving your country. Okay. And so that's all set. Uh and and he can make

his way. He'll be just fine. I'm worried. The way you leave him an inheritance is not by having a kid savings account. The way you leave an inheritance is you get yourself straightened out and you begin to build wealth for you over time. But right now,

the first thing you do is you just get balanced. You buy groceries, you keep the lights on, you pay the house payment, and you live on your income.

And you can do that.

It's just been easier to focus on that than to just sit and yeah, you know, idle time sucks. >> Yeah, I don't doubt that. I mean, it's waves of grief coming at you and catch you off guard at the at the worst possible time. But in terms of the math of your situation, don't try to make this do too much. The first thing is just live. Set up sustainable and that's food, shelter, clothing, transportation, utilities. Um, you know, you're in good shape. you're you're not in a pinch.

Now, if you start trying to put, you know, 25% away for retirement and I'm going to put another $2,000 a month for for Theodore, you don't have that kind of room. That's not an option.

>> You did have survivor benefits that are going to start this month and I want to invest that. That's what I want to do.

>> Well, if if and only if your dad gum budget is balanced.

>> Got it. >> Okay. If you do so much investing that you call me stressed out, then you're just you you're overanalyzing this.

>> How much is her benefit going to be when that pays?

>> Uh 1,600 a month divvied up between the two of us.

>> Divvied up between the two of you.

>> How old is Theodore?

>> Hello.

>> I think we lost him. must have. All

right. Yeah, that's >> There he was. >> Well, okay. Anyway, yeah. So, uh it

shouldn't be divvied up between the two of you. There's a survivor benefit that should go to you. >> Mhm. >> Shouldn't go to a minor child. So, um but even if it does come to him, it's for his care and we're going to use it in the budget for his care. >> Right. You're the >> So, we're going to take care of the household. Let's get the household going. Then we'll start worrying about investing. Breathe. Give yourself a give yourself six months to cry, man. I mean, 37 years old. Oh my god.

>> It's just a month ago.

>> Just give yourself a Let's just get this budget to where we're not going in the hole. We're not having a problem and we're just everything's running smooth and we'll worry about investing a little bit later. You got time. You're you're okay. You got plenty of time. We'll get to investing six months from now. But for right now, let's just see how big a pile of cash we can pile up and living on the income that we have coming in.

>> Right. Right. >> That just keep it real clean, real simple, >> and then give that gives you, you know, if you don't want to add financial stress to grieving. >> Yeah.

Well, like you said, >> since you don't have to >> trying to give him he's giving himself something to do when really there's not much to be done. >> I really wouldn't. I'd find a different hobby. >> Yeah.

>> Than screwing around with his money stuff right now. Mhm.

Then you can talk about doing investing at that point. That's how I would do it.

>> Wow. So, um, couple of pointers then, uh, across the board, you always need to be in touch with Xander insurance and get term life insurance. A and you need 10 to 12 times

your income on you if you're insurable.

Now Carl's not insurable. His wife uh may not have been either because she they may have already detected the heart. Matter of fact, he said that cuz he done it through work. >> But for the rest of you, >> you're walking around out there and you're 37 uh within without any medical

issues. For the cost of a pizza, you can

get 10 to 12 times your income.

>> And so you're making 50 grand. and you put 600 grand on you >> and it's for people who are dependent on your income if somebody if something happens to you cuz all the time people are like I'm taking a policy out on my kid. I'm like no no >> you got it twisted. >> No you put it out on you and and 600k

and 15 to 20 year level term insurance

and Xander insurance can help you do that. They've been doing it been a Ramsey uh endorsed Ramsey trusted for God 30 years and we've been sending people over there and uh you need your life insurance in place if you can. Now Carl's family was not able to but that call can remind some of the rest of you to get your get your stuff done. Make sure you're lined up.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

Kayla is in Virginia. Hi, Kyla. How are you?

>> Hi. I'm doing pretty good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. How can we help?

>> Okay. Uh, see if I can get through this without crying. Um,

so I recently separated from my husband because of abuse.

Okay, I'm good. Um, and I'm currently living with my parents in Virginia, but my husband and I originally lived in a different state, so I'm going to have to go back there um for custody season soon. And I was

wondering, obviously, I'm not moving back in with my husband. Um, is it

smarter for me to get a cheaper apartment that's around the onebedroom that's around uh $600, $700

um for me and my two-month-old? or is it

better for me to get a uh two-bedroom apartment because I work from home? And I'm just wondering what's more important, paying off my debt as fast as possible or um keeping up my mental

health with just having more space and a space for the baby versus a space for my work. >> How much debt do you have?

>> I have about uh 32,000 in student loans.

um 6,000 and 6,000 in credit cards.

>> 6,000 credit cards. >> And um so how much uh what does he make

a year?

>> He doesn't make anything. He's a student. Um and so honestly, I don't know how he's going to pay for our current house. He uh was insistent on keeping it and I kind of want to stick it to him and see him struggle because I know he won't be able to afford it. >> Your name's on the mortgage, too, honey.

>> It's a a rental. Oh, your name's on the

lease also.

>> I explain everything to my landlord. Um, and he understands what >> Yeah, I bet he understands. Your name's on the lease. Unless he Unless he understands by giving you a Unless he releases you from liability in writing,

your landlord didn't understood nothing.

>> Okay. What's your >> So, I don't know. I'd be careful about sticking it to him with your name on there. Okay. Um, now what do you make

again?

>> Um, I make 20 an hour. I think it's about 40k.

>> Okay. >> There's part of me that I I would really focus on getting your situation financially cleaned up. And if you're able to live cheaply for $600, I would do that, especially while your baby's young and you guys can kind of huddle up in a onebedroom. And then if you can clear out some of this debt, then the time can come where you can move to a two-bedroom.

But I think now's the time while the baby's little and doesn't take up a lot of space. Now, you said mental health, I'm guessing, because living and working and sharing a room all in one space, that's claustrophobic.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But you've been in a domestic violence situation, so you got a whole different issue on mental health. Mhm.

>> You've been dealing with a 10 out of a 10 on mental health. The baby being in the room is a two out of 10. >> Yeah. I think you're going to feel relief. >> So, yeah. You're Are you talking about moving back to that city because of custody?

>> Um I don't know about the same city, but the surrounding areas um within 30 minutes. >> Okay. Are you going to be >> rural area? So, are you going to be are you going to be safe?

>> Uh I think so. It was um emotional and verbal abuse. It wasn't physical thankfully. Um, >> but he is violent and so that >> it just depends. Um, like he he would break things. So I I really don't know what he would do if he found out where I lived. But >> Okay. Yeah. So here here's the thing.

You're coming through uh an absolutely horrible situation. And so you've got

some spiritual recovery to do, some emotional recovery to do, and some financial recovery to do. Agreed.

>> Yeah. And so the last thing you need is right now is to have be spending any money on uh an extra bedroom. So right

now I'm with Jade. Let's keep everything as cheap as possible. Um how long have

you been with mom and dad? How long have you been there?

>> Two weeks. >> Okay. How much longer do you plan to stay there?

>> Um, we're meeting with some lawyers tonight to um figure out how long I can

stay um without him being able to charge

kidnapping or anything which you threaten. >> Yeah, he can't. Well, so well, yeah, let your attorney advise you on that. And I would recommend you stay with your parents as long as you can, like for a couple months if you can. And during that time, I want you to pile up cash.

Okay? Don't pay down debt right now. I want you're in the middle of a storm. I want you to pile up a big old pile of cash for attorneys and for deposits on

apartments and all that kind of stuff.

Okay? Then once you get settled and you've got a divorce underway, you get

settled on the cheapest possible apartment, then and only then will we turn loose on these debts.

>> Now, if you haven't cut up the credit cards, you need to cut them up. Okay.

>> They're cut up. >> Good. Good. >> Yeah. I've been trying to pay him off, but my husband was for some reason against going ham on paying off our debt. >> Oh, it's real easy. Know why that was?

He was trying to control you. Yeah, >> that's a control mechanism. So, >> yeah. So, what we're going to do is you're going to clean this stuff up after you get stabilized. And the way you get stabilized is you keep your housing cost as low as possible, utilizing mom and dad for the next one to six months. And after that, then and

only then as the divorce progresses and and only when the lawyer says you absolutely have to move back into the market, do you move back to the market and you do the cheapest thing you can then and you clear the debts and you pile cash. clear the debts and pile cash and pile cash in the meantime because that if you had $15,000 saved right now

>> and it was just a p sitting there in a pile it would give you a whole different comfort level than sitting there with no no cash and this other you probably wouldn't have even called us >> but because you'd have that much different of a feeling.

>> That's right. And that that's where I want you to get to first. Then we'll clear the debt and then we're going to be in an inexpensive uh temporary housing which is like for a year or two. Okay. It's not your whole life. It's for a year or two so that you get away from the jerk.

>> And um Wow. Pretty crazy.

>> That's that's um something I I um

good for you. Good for you for pulling away and for having the strength to do that. Good for your mom and dad to give you a safety net to land in. I >> agree.

>> Um and uh you know, and it sounds like you got your head on your shoulders. You're already seeking legal counsel. You're figuring out what you can do and can't do. >> Uh you sound like you've got a good support around you.

>> Yeah. >> Sucks people back into it over and over again. especially the more desperate they feel. >> Yeah. And control. That's the financial

control is um >> one of the things we learned 30 something years ago was when we see a guy that is 1,000% controlling every

ounce of the money, there's very often domestic violence included. >> Mhm. That's right. >> It's a symptom. It's a It's an indicator of um of what's going on. It's um not

100% but it's really close to 100.

>> Mhm. It's in the 90s. And so if the wife's not allowed to go to the grocery store without her husband, if she's not allowed to do anything, make any money decision without her husband, if she's not allowed to, he's got a complete death grip on every single dollar, there's usually domestic violence tied with that. So that's a little bit of what you were experiencing there, Kayla, where he was didn't want you out of debt cuz it gave him a power over you.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Not in all states. >> All right, today's question comes from Chad in Washington. He says, "My wife and I follow the baby steps and are debtree except our house. Our net worth is 1 million and we owe $75,000 on a

house that is worth $750,000.

We are in our early 50s. When we got married, my wife had a $100,000 annual

salary. But when we had kids, we made the decision together for her to stay home and homeschool them. Fast forward 20 plus years, the kids are grown. We are doing well, but my wife is still not working. My income is $150,000 a year. I

have asked her to get a job for a few months to knock out the mortgage and build up a gap fund so I can retire a little early. We have plenty to live on, but I've noticed some budget drift as the kids don't require as much attention as they did when they were little. Is my wife a princess or do I just need an attitude change? Interesting.

Okay, so just to recap, you guys are millionaires. You owe 75,000 on the house. your wife has not worked in 20 plus years is what it sounds like. And now you're saying, "Hey, I could retire a little bit faster and we could pay off the house a little faster if she would just get a job." That's that's where we're at.

princess. I think there's something that maybe you guys need to do to work to meet in the middle. Um, I can understand you wanting to go a little faster on the house and I can understand you wanting to retire a little faster. Um, but I

don't necessarily I wouldn't go as far to call her a princess. I think you need to frame up the argument in a way that

she's also excited about it cuz whatever you've been saying in it's not, you

know, it's not she's not excited about it, so she doesn't want to do it. >> Yeah. Chad. Um, if we look up nerd in the dictionary, we're going to see your face.

Okay. You got you're completely dialed in here, bro. And uh that's good. That's good. That's that's what got you here.

But um yeah, you're you're 100%

concentrating on numbers, which is what I do. I that's how I know who what you look like. I know who you are. And um if you're not careful, you forget about relationships. No. Your wife is far from a princess. >> Yeah. >> Does she need to dial it in and get a little bit more serious and join the uh join the crusade to build some more the last little bit of wealth so that we can Yeah. Yes, she does. we tighten up that budget a little bit and we can uh but

does she have to necessarily go back to work to accomplish that? I don't think so. >> I think the budget is her that's been her thing for 20 plus years. So, if she can tighten up her end of the thing, which is uh managing the money at home, and if you can tighten up your thing, which is bringing in the money from outside, I think that's fair.

>> I mean, you manage the money at home together. You're going to do your budget. We're not going to do home economics, but no budget drift. We're not going to be drifting.

but I I I think I think you could dial it back a little and she could dial it up a little and like you said, meet in the middle. That's what it sounds like.

But, um, no. Uh, it it's neither. It's

not that you are completely out of line and need an attitude change and it's not that she's a princess. >> That's right. That's right. >> But, uh, I think you're making some valid observations from a nerd's perspective. And, uh, she's probably gotten just a little comfortable. >> That's true. >> And let's dial up the seriousness just a little bit. dial down the seriousness just a little bit and I think we'll find a really happy place right here.

>> You get, by the way, you guys have done great. Hello. >> Woohoo. >> Luke is in New York. Hi, Luke. How are you? >> I'm doing good. Dave, uh, much like you, I'm doing better than I deserve. How are you? >> Just the same, sir. What's up?

>> All right. So, I am 25. Uh, I just moved

back home from graduate school. I just got my master's degree. And you know, I listen to your show a lot and I know sometimes there's recent graduates on.

Um, but I guess I just needed like a refresher. Um, so you know, I'm having trouble in my job search. I know you always say to not just apply to a thousand jobs on the line without really talking to anybody. Um, but you know, I have kind of a niche skill set. Uh, I worked in the sports industry for a few years and I guess, you know, that's what I want to do and I guess I'm kind of being picky at this point, I'll admit.

Um, so I just kind of wanted to get like your advice or whatever on, you know,

handling a job search post-graduate degree.

>> So, what are you wanting to do in the sports industry?

>> So, uh, my masters was in data science, uh, sports business analytics, which, you know, I didn't just choose that degree. It was what I was doing out of school. Uh, I was working for a major sports organization. moved down to to get my graduate degree at a school that had, you know, pretty good sports and was working for their basketball team.

Uh, and you know, something in that field. I live around New York City, so obviously there's tons of opportunity for roles like that in other fields. Um, so I have kind of broadened my search in that sense. Um, but it's still just kind of been not the most fun process.

>> Yeah.

Well, you you're right. You're in a an epicenter of sports without a doubt. If you were going to be close to a whole bunch of teams, that'd be the place to be, right? Uh in all kinds of different things. Um and and yet having said that,

it's a fairly small pond you're fishing in. >> Yeah. >> So that means you've got to go one direction or the other to jog something loose. And one is you lower your expectations for salary and position and you take more of an entry level, get your foot in the door in a sports organization. Or two is you step outside sports.

>> Mhm. and you make what and you make what you think you can make. >> So, what is it you're what do what do you think that this position you're >> trying to get is worth.

>> Well, I guess that's kind of definitely part of it. I've definitely lowered my expectations in terms of salary. Um I would guess like the 85,000ish range, but at the same time, I'm not really locked into this area. You know, I just moved to Mississippi for school and for this job. So, you know, I'm not kind of I I'll kind of move wherever if the opportunity is right. And there's definitely, you know, a path to developing as a professional and developing my technical skills.

>> Um, but I'm just in a weird tweener spot where like I'm not entirely entry level.

And then for the jobs, you know, I I'm thankful to have gotten a interviews.

>> It might be it might be I think I heard language that you were using early in the conversation that it's possible you

are overvaluing the degree.

>> For sure. the uh like I got this degree and and and and you think that's going to be like the magic bullet, the silver bullet. The silver bullet, the secret sauce is Luke >> and what Luke learned while he was getting the masters. The master's degree has zero value in and of itself. Only

the knowledge that you put in your in your brain while you're getting the master's degree. Now, that knowledge has value.

So knowledge is valuable, but degrees are worthless.

>> So people people don't care what degree you got. They don't care where you went to school. What they care is did you learn something that you can use to help us move our process, our company, our

organization forward. And so if you'll concentrate on how you can add value, not concentrate on look at me, I got a masters. >> It's a good point. >> That might change your interview >> posture, the posture of your heart in the interview.

It's like, "Hey guys, I went back to get a master so that I could get really good at this data stuff, and I'm really good at this data stuff, and I can help you with your data analysis, and it's going to do this, this, and this, and I want to add value, and I'm excited, and I'm pumped up about adding value.

Super. I didn't know where you were going. Superman, Superman is here, right?" Right. And so, you know, like

Clark Kent and, you know, no, no, you don't don't don't, you know, you got to be real careful with a new degree that you worked really hard to get it and I'm glad you you got the knowledge.

>> Uh, but the then don't place too much emphasis on that. >> Plus, there's a certain level of, I don't know, ladder climbing with any position, right? you no matter what when you start out you're kind of at the low end of the totem pole and there's some building that has to be done um in your role right like you're building your personal brand and you're building your skill set and you're so there's that part of it there's a grunt work aspect all the time uh as you're building so that's just >> when we're doing our onboarding and stuff here that you know I want sometimes I'll swing in and sit in with the new team members inevitably when I ask question what's it take to get ahead at Ramsey I'm like well here's an idea be really good at your Yeah.

>> Add value. Add value. Make us really happy that we hired you.

>> And that's how you move ahead. We're very utilitarian. >> That's right. >> Most businesses are, by the way.

>> We really just want a return on our investment. >> It's that that's how this thing works.

>> And so, um, you got to got to you got to make us more than you cost us or we all go down, right? That's how this works.

So, how can I add value? How can I add value? And how can I in a very practical way hit the ground with my feet and get start running from day one.

[Music]

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[Music]

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Tyler's in Toronto. Hi Tyler. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Hi Jade. Uh I want to start by saying I'm a longtime listener. Uh and God bless both of you and your team for the work that you do. Uh it's made a great deal of difference in my life and I'm sure for many others. So thank you.

>> Thank you. How can we help you today?

Well, I'm calling because uh my wife and

I, we are both 30. We've been together

six years, and we are currently on baby step three, but we are stuck. Uh we're

stuck on step three because we have been

working at gazelle-like intensity for the last 5 years or so. Uh and we

between the two of us, we have two full-time jobs and three part-time jobs.

and I'm calling to ask for help on what advice you would give to boost a household income uh so that we don't have to be working 70 to 80 hours a week

each because I'll be honest we we work

conscious and hard and we love each other but we are tired.

>> Yeah. >> Sounds like you don't make any money.

>> Yeah. What are you making? >> Well, so part of we live just outside Toronto so we are in an ultra high cost of living area.

our our monthly budget, which we have followed dutifully since we moved in

together four years ago. Uh we so our

monthly expenses total including everything uh is about $6,800.

>> And we make and between the two of us,

we bring in about $105,000 a year.

>> Okay. And what did you pay off during that five years of baby step two? Our total our total debt wasn't very high.

We only had about we only had about $8 or $9,000. So that hard part.

>> So if you don't get different jobs, you can't afford to live there.

>> Uh with our current ones, we can, but the compromise is no. Just on our full-time salaries, we can't.

>> Yeah, that's what I mean. You you don't make enough money to live there without working 70 hours a week and three part-time side hustles.

>> It's it's a cost of living thing. Mhm.

>> So, I mean, you you also can't live in Manhattan and you can't live in LA either. >> Yeah. What's keeping you in Toronto?

What's keeping you there?

>> Two reasons. Uh, one, all of our immediate family is here and and both of us are fairly connected with our families and churches. And I mean, we've lived here for 30 years. We just want to stay in our home. >> But I mean, is there a >> both of our both of our jobs are tied geographically. She is a a high school teacher. Mhm. >> And so she would lose her seniority and

her salary if we moved and I work as a

copy editor for a municipal company. So if I moved away, I would have to find another job. >> Right. But I do feel like both of you have jobs that you could find in outer

rings of Toronto, right? I mean, how far out from Toronto do you live currently?

>> Are you an hour outside of town?

>> Uh, yes. We already live in a suburb, but we I both of us have been looking for the last year and a half because we set a goal and said we're fed up with this. We want to get it so we have more time together and so we have been consciously applying, >> right? >> And I've had multiple interviews and two offers, but both offers were for less money than I currently make.

>> Well, there's going to be a cap. I mean, you you're going to you've got to go into this knowing for my job, for my career, here's kind of the salary cap.

Like, here's a generality of what I'm going to make. So just cuz you apply for more jobs doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be higher paying. And Dave made the Dave made the point if you

choose to live in Toronto, there are certain things that are going to go along with that price-wise. And you have to at some point say I can either afford it or I can't. I have family members who lived in LA for the longest. And they said the truth is even I'm a teacher and

the spouse did something else. If we work here for our pay, we will not be able to afford the lifestyle we want. We won't be able to buy a home. we won't be able to do XYZ.

And so because of that, they moved to Georgia where they could have that life. So you guys have to decide as a family what's more important, working 70, 80 hours a week to have this dream of staying in Toronto or having the picket fence and having some breathing room and being able to have, you know, whatever that is. You guys have to make that choice.

>> Ah, >> and get your income up. But you cannot, you know, you're you're right. The reason you're tired is that you don't see a way out. You feel like a rat in a wheel and because mathematically nothing's changing and you're smart enough to realize doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. So, >> um you know, you've got to change something if you want something to change. So, there's three possible

variables and you know, it's location

and um is one of them. And then the

second one is to change careers completely.

>> Um, and but I I I you know, I I feel for

you, but there's some things you just can't you know, you can't afford to live on $20 an hour >> in Manhattan, right? You're not doing it on $20 an hour, but you're trying to do it on about $40 an hour.

>> And so, and you just can't afford to live in Tokyo >> and London and Toronto and Manhattan. um

you just you can't make it there on that kind of income. So um I mean you you

guys are staying afloat, but you're doing it by just you got every finger stuck in the every hole in the dam and if you pull one out, the whole thing's going to flood out on you and you realize that. So I'm sorry, man. I wish I had a magic wand that would make it easy to do, but it's not. You you're going to you're going to change careers or you're going to change locations

>> and uh or you're going to work 70 hours a week, which I don't recommend. Mhm.

>> as a way of life. I don't mind doing that to get somewhere, >> but but I don't want to do that and say that's that's for the next 40 years what I'm going to do. >> Yeah. There's a cap on there's a cap on that and 5 years is a long time to be in

that mode. >> You you you don't only get physically tired, you get emotionally tired from doing it that long. >> You lose sight. You you lose sight.

>> Justin's in Illinois. Hi, Justin. How are you?

>> Good. How are you today? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Awesome. Um, so yeah, I try to get right to the point. Um, I'm 48 and

in my 20s and 30 and in my early 30s, I never gave retirement a passing thought.

You know, the word 401k meant nothing to me. And so now that I am retiring, you know, I know you can't make up for lost time, but I just want to make sure I'm doing the right things so that I, you know, hopefully I can retire someday and with a with a healthy retirement. And I just, you know, just want to run numbers by you and basically see what you think and, you know, what what I wish was to change. And >> are you out of debt except your house?

>> Uh, yes, completely. The house is paid for and debt. Very good. Okay.

>> Yes, sir. >> So, are you maxing out your 401ks, IAS, and so forth all in Roth?

>> Uh, yeah, but my 401k is in Roth. I do 14%, which is my company's max. I guess

I fall under their high earnner category. Mhm. >> So it's I'm at 14%.

>> How much is that? >> I understand at 50. Um I make about 140

a year. So it's you know 18 19,000.

>> Mhm. >> And even 1500 a month. And what else are you doing?

>> Um on top of that, the reason I'm not worried about that I'll the 401k that much is my company also has profit sharing >> which obviously fluctuates but the last two years it's been $30,000 good >> that they put into my 401k. Great.

What's in there now? What's the total nest egg?

>> Uh the total is right only right about 100,000. Okay. >> That's why I was, you know, calling you today making, you know, >> because they had a they had a financial adviser come in a few few months ago and just look at your numbers and see where you're at and he gave me some numbers for, you know, 15 years down the line and just >> I don't know compound interest. So I look at my numbers today and you know the numbers he gave me I'm like that's not right. You know, one of those deals.

>> Listen, I plugged I plugged it in. Now, if you work from your current age, 48 to 68, you've got 100,000 in there now. You put 1,500 in a month. Average rate annualized rate of return, 10%, you're at 1.8 million. That ain't too shabby.

There you go. If you want to get some more help, sit down with a Ramsey Smart Vtor Pro and they'll show you in detail

exactly how that works and how you're going to get there.

[Music]

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[Music]

Emily is with us in Detroit. Hi Emily.

How are you? >> Hello Dave. How are you?

>> Great. What's up?

>> Hi. Well, I'm calling with sort of a financial, moral, ethical, and biblical question allin one.

>> The reason I'm calling so my brother and I, we both work in ministry, different churches. We live in different states. He's clear across the country than me. Um, he and his wife, they have eight children. And their belief is that God called us to go forth and multiply. And they believe Christians should be having as many children as possible. >> Well, they are doing a good job of that.

>> Well, regardless of finances. So, their only income is my brother's pastor's salary. And as you may imagine, pastor's salaries, you know, no, nobody goes into ministry to, you know, make it big. Um, so he has actually said in podcasts and

interviews that if you have more children than you can afford to have, that qualifies you as the needy. And the

church and family members are called to help the needy. And so his solution to this is to be on state aid in addition to a salary. And his in-laws also pay them a stipend every month because they believe he's in ministry and they should be helping them with their bills. I think it's lunacy. I think it's crazy.

And I was just kind of curious what your opinion was of that. >> I completely agree.

>> Thank you. >> Yeah, that is not biblical.

>> I don't believe it's biblical either. And even though >> the Bible the Bible does the Bible does say to be fruitful and multiply, the Bible also says that those that won't take care of their own household are worse than an unbeliever.

>> I would 100% agree with that. And he and I are in the same denomination, but sometimes I wonder if we're reading the same Bible. Um, but my other question to piggyback on that is, do you think Christians in any capacity, whether you're a pastor or a firefighter or whatever, should ever be taking advantage of government, or as I like to call it, taxpayer funded aid.

Um, well, I'm not ready to throw rocks at everybody who ever does anything, but

um, obviously uh, we at Ramsay are are big on helping you prosper, and I've never met anyone

who prospers on government aid.

>> I would 100% agree with that. So, it's not an act of love for me to recommend that or you certainly wouldn't tell people to do it as a way of life because

it it's not good for them. Not not it's

not a it's not it's not as much a moral judgment as it's just loving the person and saying, "Gosh, I've never met anybody on welfare that had just a wonderful life." >> Um, you know, >> I would agree with that.

>> Consistency of staying on welfare.

>> Yeah. But but are you going to hell or are you a bad Christian if you go through a rough patch and the government helps you for a little bit? I'm not going to be that judgmental. I'll give you a break on that.

>> Okay. No, just perspective. Um and my other question was actually kind of on behalf of my parents. My parents are very generous people.

Um they fly out so they they live in Detroit with me, but they fly out to where my brother lives periodically, you know, to see the kids to keep up that relationship. And they're very generous when they're there. Um but when they are there, you know, they kind of have their limits on generosity. My brother will make comments like, "Gee, you know, my van needs new tires." And, you know, see these bald tires, it's not safe, or one of the kids lost their glasses, and you know, we just can't afford to repair them.

>> Um, so this is kind of my question. Is is there any good on that?

>> The thing is that there's not anything your parents are going to say or you're going to say is going to change your brother. He's made his decision. True.

It's very true. >> And so I'm either just going to love him where he is and disagree with him. I mean, I have relatives that vote wrong and I love him anyway, >> you know. And so, um, you know, that's

okay, you know, and and they think I vote wrong, so it's okay. And they love me still. So, but but now, you know, how much money am I going to pour into a situation like that? I >> Listen, there fixing the bald tires or replacing the lost glasses is not going to repair this situation.

It's bigger than that. >> Correct. And that's what the advice they've been given by other people is that's just a band-aid on it. But the tires are going to be an issue again.

The glasses are going to be lost again.

that guy and I'm not going to worry about it. But past that, the answer is no. And so, you know, when we go out here and visit, we're planning to drop $1,000 into kids stuff that they need right now because their dad's kind of a doofus. And so, um, you know, I'm just going to have that as my line item.

And then when it gets above that, I'm not going to, you know, I'm not going to do any more than that. >> Also, Emily, everything that you're talking about is not even a direct effect on you. You're talking about this is your brother. This is your brother and your parents deal.

So if I were you, respectfully, I'd just mind my own business because nobody's coming to you for money, right? >> It Well, it's her mom and this has not been said directly to me, but a good friend of mine is actually married to my sister-in-law's brother, and she has made many comments about how, oh gosh, they're in such bad, you know, straits financially. Everyone in the family, including, you know, myself and my husband, should be helping them. And I just think it's wrong.

I think you should be embarrassed.

>> And so, >> as an ongoing pattern, yes, but as an off thing. But yeah, but you know, again, somebody four degrees of separation away doesn't get a vote on what I do.

>> If they don't like that, I don't agree that that he has labeled himself needy

>> biblically and um and I don't agree with that label, so I'm not going to biblically step up and make him not needy. Mhm. >> Um, he's needy, but it's not money.

>> He needy a new job.

>> Careful. You'll get a jadism. You'll get a jadism dropped on you like a bomb.

>> You need a job. >> Oh, that's it. That's the deal right there. Yeah. Here's the thing. It is frustrating to watch people that you love, >> especially when they're taking advantage of people that you love and and it's not and they're not winning. But I'm also not going to get sucked into anyone else's guilt trip or I particularly resist um someone trying

to Christianize their guilt trip.

>> I know that's right.

>> So like we had a guy one time at the old office, Jay, this was funny. He came in and he was at the front desk and um I I

walked out. They said, "This guy's out here to see you." And I walked out front and he said, "God told me that you're going to give me a new van." And I said, "No, he didn't."

He said, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, he did." And I said, "No, he didn't." Cuz if God told you that I was going to give you a new van, he would have told me, "Okay, >> and there'd be a new van sitting out there with the keys in it." >> I know. That's right. >> If God told me to do it, that's what would have happened. But God didn't tell you nothing. You had bad pizza last night and you're blaming God.

>> And so, um, and then of course he starts cussing and screaming about how we're not real Christians and had a little duck fit right there on the floor and we had to have him removed. But um because you don't you don't challenge these God people when they're doing this stuff. So uh I mean crazy Christians give the rest of us Christians a bad name, y'all. I'm just saying.

So >> yeah, God told me that, you know, and so yeah, you're going to quote scripture that demands that you remove my private property from me.

job. That's it. Yeah. Wow.

And here's a sad thing. There's eight kids being affected by this. >> That's what I know. Yeah, that's tough.

>> That's tough. Now they're being raised by that and then they come then they can't figure out why they strayed away from the church. >> Exactly. >> Because they were raised poor because their mom and dad had decided to have a bad um biblical def series of biblical

definitions. >> Yeah. >> Um but I tell you, I do love the idea that that we ought to be fruitful and multiply. But um maybe we also ought to

raise our income while we're doing that.

That's >> right. >> So that we can feed them. That's supposed to be the kind of the thing goes with it. So I agree with you.

I agree with your frustration, Emily. But to Jade's point, there's not anything you're going to do about any of this. So this was just a discussion we all had cuz nothing changed at the end of this discussion. Nope.

>> Cuz we could give no one instruction >> in this process that's going to take the instruction. >> Yeah. If they wanted help, they would have called in. If the parents wanted help, they would have called in.

Yep. So, >> yeah. And so now you get to just sit on the sideline and be frustrated or just watch them and grin and go, "That's my brother." >> Yep. >> Yep.

That's him. That's the guy. I know that guy. >> That's the hardest part of all this though, when you see a better way and you know a better path and you just want that person to just >> you want it more than they do.

That's >> that's how we become enablers if we're not real careful or just really frustrated with family members either.

>> You're just sitting back there just meanwhile they're they're broke eating a sandwich. They don't care.

You know, >> they're broke eating a sandwich somebody else made. >> That's right.

>> That's right.

>> Media job. I can't believe you, Jake.

That was really good. That's good.

That's good. I like it. I'm going with that. I'm sticking with I'm going to steal that one. After about three more times, it'll be something I said.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today.

Kayla is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hi Kayla, how are you?

>> Hi, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Um, so I had a question about term life insurance. Um, I've been listening about you saying that we need about 10 to 12 times our annual incomes. And I just I

guess from my point of view, it seems like that's very very high. And maybe I'm just like missing something in the calculations. And so I'm just hoping to kind of get an idea of like why why that number you pick? >> That's a great question. Thank you >> so much. I appreciate that because a whole bunch of other people probably wondering exactly the same thing if you are. So glad you called. So um to start

with uh it is not universal. Number one,

everyone does not need life insurance.

It's if people are counting on your income to live and you die, then they're

up a creek, right? And so um so and as

you build wealth through your life and

get out of debt through your life and your net worth increases through your life, you progressively need less insurance to the point that you're self-insured. I'm 65. I'm worth millions

of dollars and I don't have a dime of life insurance. Okay? My wife will be just fine if I die. Okay? As a matter of fact, she's kind of planning it.

Okay? Okay. So, but that's because we're out of debt and have built wealth. You follow me? And there's no kids to raise.

They're all the kids are all grown and gone and so forth. Okay. Jade, on the other hand, has two littles and she and Sam are raising a family right now.

>> Okay. And so, different positions in

life. So, if you're 20 and you have no

spouse and no kids, um you you don't

need much life insurance because no one's counting on your income. So, that's that's the sidebar. That's the caveat. But then back to your original meat of your question is let's say you're 34, you have two kids, and you make uh $60,000 a year, and your spouse

makes $70,000 a year. Okay, that's when we would say if you got a house mortgage, um you know, you've got some student loans you're still paying off, you're working the baby steps, you're a normal 34 year old in America today, oh,

you definitely need 10 times. And the reason is this. $60,000 income earner 10

times would be $600,000. 12 times would be 700,000. So if that person died, let's say that that let's say that was the husband. He died and left the wife behind with two littles and half the income that used to be there. That wife could take that 600,000 and invest it.

If she made 10% on 600,000, it creates

60,000 of income without touching the

nest egg that is created. The goose will keep laying that golden eggs perpetually. If you invest 600,000 at

10% um in a good growth stock mutual fund, it should average that or more.

>> Mhm. >> Uh then she's going to have the same income off of that mutual fund that her husband used to produce. And you did not sacrifice retirement.

>> Yeah. And she didn't have to starve to death. Okay. And so that that's where it

leaves her in reality. And we've got thousands of those stories over the years. But that's where it comes from.

You invest that 10 times and and and at 10% then you end up with replacing the income of the person and that's what life insurance is for.

That make sense?

>> Yes, I think so. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, if in other words, if you What's your situation? How old are you?

>> Um, I'm 35. >> Okay. Single or married? >> I have I'm married. We have three kids,

two in middle school, one in high school. >> Okay. And what's your net worth?

>> Our net worth is roughly about 200,000.

>> Okay. All right. So, you're doing pretty good. All right. How much debt do you have?

>> We don't. >> Okay. Good. House or anything?

Uh well, how do we have a little bit left? Uh there's a little bit less than 100,000 left on that. >> Okay. Well, you're ahead of the game.

Agreed.

>> Yeah, >> you're doing better than average for your age. Okay. Funny. I picked out 34 a minute ago, huh? For the for the example. But yeah, but the uh but that is the exact average. So, what does your husband make?

>> Um my husband makes about 80,000. Okay.

And so if he had a million on him and we invested that at 10%, he'd make $100,000 minus taxes. You'd have 80,000 bucks.

And we would not miss his income.

We'd miss him, but we wouldn't miss his income.

>> Mhm. >> And here's the weird thing. If he's healthy, if he's not obese, and he doesn't smoke, that that million dollars on that 30 something year old is very inexpensive.

>> Okay? >> It's like the cost of a pizza. I mean, it's nothing when you look it up. So, >> have you priced it out yet, Kayla?

>> Um, yes. Yeah, we had gone through Xander and had a couple estimates and so we had priced it out. I was just trying to figure out exactly like where where we should land with that. >> So, truthfully, a million is a little much for y'all because you're in such good shape because if you didn't get his whole income replaced as good a job as you've done, you'd probably be okay. Mhm.

>> But for the difference in the cost in 800 grand and a million on policies so low, I'm going to go ahead and beef it up a little bit. >> And even later on when the kids were grown and gone and we had some wealth, Sharon wanted me to keep life insurance for a while and I kept it for a little while. SWI, Sharon wants it. There was

no reason for it whatsoever mathematically. She just wanted some. I finally I finally let it go. I finally talked her out of that a few years ago.

But um for about a decade I kept a life insurance for no apparent reason other than SWI. >> She said I'd rather have that million-doll policy than another diamond. I'm like good. Okay, you can

have it. It's a just a gift to you. But you understand it's not good financial planning. It's you understand it's not what I teach. And she's like I don't care what you teach. I want it. Okay.

>> To be a fly on that wall.

>> But that's that's where the it comes from. If you if you take 10 times or 12 times your income, your spouse could invest that amount at 10% and we have replaced you if something happens to you financially. Obviously, no one could replace you. You're special.

But um yeah, right. But anyway, so yeah, that that's the thing. You're going to be okay. >> And then as you age, like let's talk about the once you've aged out of it, like when you feel when you feel like you've net worthd out of it, let me call it that.

>> Well, the kids are grown 15. We say 15 to 20 year level term. That's a good point. Because 15 to 20 years from now, the kids will be grown and gone.

>> That's right. And they're making their own money. >> They're doing their own thing.

>> Um 15 to 20 years from now, you'll be out of debt, 100% house and everything.

>> That's right. >> Because we tell you never take out more than a 15-year mortgage. So, you're going to be completely debtree 15 to 20 years from now. And 15 to 20 years from now, you probably have a million bucks or more in your 401k because you will been investing in baby step four 15% of your income. And so your your assets are r rising, your debts are going down, and the kids move out.

>> Then it takes less to support you, and you set up with good financial planning, working the baby steps, a situation where you become self-insured, >> right? When really at that point, the only thing you're thinking about is your health. >> Yeah. >> And caring for your health.

And so there you go. >> Yeah. But but we're not >> if again if something happens to me today >> we've done all of those things and then some, >> right? >> Uh uh so Sharon's more than okay and vice versa, I'll be okay, you know, without her income.

It it'd be okay. She doesn't have an income, but that's good. So that's other than mine cuz it's ours and all that.

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investing might seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be.

The Ramsey Investing and Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools and resources that can help you get informed, not intimidated. Check it out.

ramseolutions.com/retire

or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

Guys, remember retirement is not an age, it's a number.

So, it's not like 65 bing.

No, it's more like 2 million six bing, you know. Okay. What

is it you want? What's the nest egg you want to where you don't have to think about money? Then you are able to retire

at that point. Now, we can call that financially independent. I don't like that phrase very much, >> but um we could call that um whatever.

And I don't like just saying I'm never going to work again either. I think you ought to do something. I I work and I don't need to because I love what I do and I help people and it's a good thing.

And so find something to lay your hand to. That's a good thing because too too many people do quote quit work and like a year later they're dead.

>> So you you need to something you're doing, right? You need to be plugged into something and but that's yeah

remember retirement is not an age, it's a number. All right, here we go. Amelia is in South Carolina. Hi Ameilia. How are you?

>> Hi Dave. I'm well. How are you? better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Great. Um, okay. Well, I'm calling because my husband is a physician and

his practice is a private practice and

they are about to merge tomorrow with some other groups and I we just figured

out that his 401k from his old company

or you know the company he's with today that's about to become a new company tomorrow.

um we don't have to put that into the new company's 401k. I guess we can

instead make it a self-directed IRA >> or you could just roll it to an individual IRA. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I think that that may open up

lots of different options and just wondered if you had any advice like could we consider putting some of it into real estate investments or something like that. >> Okay. All right. Good.

Well, the f first thing is yes, I would roll it to something. I would not leave it with the new company 401k. This is an opportunity to move it to something where you have a lot more control and a lot more options.

manage you roll it to an IRA. There's zero taxes on that and you manage that from this point forward at a minimum.

Okay? If you chose to do a self-directed, you could roll some or all of it that way. How much is in it?

>> Um, it's our biggest of all of our retirement accounts. It's 1.155.

>> Okay. >> Million. >> Okay. Do you own other investment real estate now?

>> No. >> Okay. How old are you guys?

>> 52. >> Okay. All right. So, here's the um yes,

you could roll half of it or some of it or all of it. Let's say you moved a half a million over and you bought a couple of $250,000 rental houses in South Carolina and you put the other half a million or other 600,000 in a regular

IRA like I was talking about in mutual funds. Okay. In the self-directed, then

you can buy real estate as you mentioned with and you could do those two $250,000 houses in there if you wanted to. Okay.

The downside is two things. One,

people screw up and forget that you

can't touch any of the money from those

rental houses.

Okay? Just like you can't cash out your mutual funds in your IRA until you're 59 and a half, you're going to get penalized. Okay? So, you can't pull the

rent money out and use it. 100% has to

be operated like it's someone else's company and you can't embezzle or co-mingle funds in any way. It has to be a standalone operation and 100% of the

repairs are done from the IRA, the roof,

the uh the heat and air that goes out on the rental, the carpet that has to be replaced on the rental, and 100% of the income created in the rental has to stay in the IRA. You understand?

>> Okay. Yep. That makes sense. >> Yeah. So, because if you pull in one dime out, number one, they may toss you out of the whole thing, but number two, you're going to get penalized on that dime and um and taxed on that dime when

you pull it out. So, don't coingle it.

And people often mismanage these things.

So, you got to just be real airtight with that and promise, promise, promise and stick with it. The second thing is you've never owned any real estate.

not as an investment. >> Yeah. And you're getting ready to be a landlord and buckle up, buttercup. This is new experience.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, when she pulls the rents, those hypothetical rentals um that she purchases, she pulls the rents. Those money, that money has to immediately go back into the IRA.

>> You're not pulling it. You're running it as a separate company. It's got its own checking account. >> You're running it as a company over here.

Like you like it's not you, like you're doing it for somebody else. So, it all stays encapsulated within the IRA.

repairs. No >> and for That's interesting.

>> Yeah. Well, the rents would create because they're stuck in there. You can't pull the rents out. So the rents begin to build up cash, >> right, >> over time. Hopefully you're cash flowing. I mean, you're buying paid for two paid for rental properties, right?

So hopefully you're cash flowing. You're making some money. So those rent those $2,500 rents are piling up. Then you got to pay property taxes out of that, pay insurance out of that.

Um you got to do your repairs out of that. And what's left in there is profit, but 100% of that profit stays in there. Yeah, >> that's what we're doing. So, yeah, you just got to be ready because here's the thing.

>> Okay, that makes sense.

>> Because people who say real estate's passive investing make me laugh.

There's nothing passive about it. Okay, it's real estate. The beauty of it is it

it requires some more effort. With mutual funds, you can set it and forget it. Look at it once a year, twice a year, and not worry about it.

>> You know, I look at my real estate stuff every month. I get reports on it every single month. And that's just me looking at the people that are managing it for me, that work for me, okay? And and I look at my mutual funds once a year.

>> Uhhuh. That's a I mean, so I I burn a lot more brain calories on my real estate than I do on my other, but I make more money on it. >> So, but I love real estate. I'm a real estate guy. So, it it makes a lot of sense for me. I would not put 100% of it in real estate. I would do something like I outlined, maybe 50%.

>> Okay. But do you think with the real estate market where it is right now that this is a good time to consider something like that? >> If you get a bargain on a piece of real estate, it's always a good time.

>> Okay. Don't pay retail. Good lord. No.

Yeah. No. We want to get a deal.

>> And so we're going to get a deal. We're going to buy a $300,000 house for 250 because we're writing a check and we're closing Friday.

>> You want to sell your house, it's sold. I'm getting a bargain. Okay. And we're looking for a deal.

And not every and deals are hard to find, but but they're worth it. It's $50,000 you made right then. Soon as you buy it, 50,000 under market. And that that's what I'm looking for if I'm buying I don't buy houses anymore, but um if I was buying houses right now, that's what I'd be doing.

I'd be looking for a bargain. Um are they everywhere on every corner? No, they never have been. There's no market that they're everywhere.

But you can find them and that there somebody out there needs to sell a house right now. And there stands a millia with cash.

yeah, you can you can do it. And here's the other thing. If you get into it and you hate it, you can sell them >> inside the self-directed IRA >> and roll the self-directed into mutual funds into a regular IRA. You can you can you can put the car in reverse and back out of this, okay?

>> And maybe not even lose money. But if you just get into it and go, "This is a pain in the butt. I don't want to fool with this and I want to like be traveling. I don't want to be dealing with renters, right?" And so that's okay.

That that's fine.

So yeah, if I were you, I'd try it since you got the itch, but but I wouldn't try it with more than half and I wouldn't do it. Of course, you're going to pay cash, >> but um I actually knew a guy that did this cuz he was a guy that did flips.

>> Mhm. >> And he took his million and made it made it into three doing flips. >> Wow. >> All inside the IRA, though, never he couldn't eat out. >> Well, I was going to say have you he had to have a job over here to eat. Yeah.

You know, >> it's a fail safe in that way. You're not going to spend your earnings. It keeps your hands off of it unless you screw up the whole thing. Yeah.

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Michael and Cara are on the debtfree stage right here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hey guys, how are you >> doing? Well, how are you doing?

>> Better than we deserve. Good to have you. Where do y'all live?

>> Uh, King George, Virginia. >> Oh, fine. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off?

>> $212,626.

>> Good for you. And how long did that take? >> 65 months. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that time >> was 96,000 to 120 and down to about I

think it's going to be about 115 this year. >> Cool. What do you do for a living? So, I am a vendor. I work for um Liftoff

Distribution, which is a Red Bull vendor. >> And I work for a child development center at the Navy Base. >> Oh, very cool. Very cool. All right.

213,000 over 65 months. That's your house? >> Yes, sir. >> Look at it. We're people.

A paid for house. How old are you two?

>> I am 34.

>> I'm 35. Wow. >> And a paid for house. Oh, and I there's a picture of it in the snow. I like it.

So, what's that house worth?

>> Well, uh, they said in the email after I

think it was 330. Yeah.

>> 330,000. Awesome.

>> Good for y'all. And you're 34 years old.

And how much have you got in your retirement nest eggs at this point?

>> 146,000. >> All right. Halfway to millionaire.

>> Going to be there quick now.

>> How's it feel to have a paid for house at 35 years old? Y'all know how weird you are, right? >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. We hear it a lot. Yeah, it feels

great. >> Yeah, we're really excited. >> Yeah, that's fun. Good for you.

>> So, what started the journey? >> Yeah. I mean, like 65 months ago. Wow.

Five years and some change. >> Mhm. So, you uh did an interview on the

Sunday special and I got to listen to it one day when uh at the time I was working at Fredo and I was loading my truck and I was listening to it and I was listening to it and I said, "Oh, I can't wait to get home. I got to tell my wife, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I got to go home. So, I got done, came home, and I said, uh, you

know, we we got to do this journey. And my wife was like, what are you talking about? I came in I came in through the front door like I was crazy.

>> And, uh, >> he he got into the Fritos again.

>> Yeah. And she was like, "Okay, well, it makes sense. So, you know, where do we start?" And I said, "Well, the first thing is we got enough money. We had a car payment. Pay the $3,000. Let's just pay the rest of it off." forgot the money and she said, "Okay, let's do it." >> Well, all right. One down.

>> So, you already you didn't start with a bunch of consumer debt. You had kind of kept your way out of debt up until this point. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. No, it was uh And >> we've always been against credit cards.

>> Yeah. Credit cards and all that stuff. To be honest with you, I wouldn't have gotten I wouldn't have gotten the car debt if my mom didn't tell me that it was good for you.

>> And so, since it was so good for me, it uh you know, I went ahead and paid that off. Says Yeah. So, we paid that off and then uh

we did the six months get your get your emergency fund and then right about that time COVID happened.

>> Uh so, once CO happened um

>> I uh took advantage of the refinance rates cuz they were way down. I went to two and 3/4 on the house >> and um and then at that time, you know, so we continued to put anything extra on the house and it was just a small amount at first. And um >> every raise we'd put more and I got a little more >> intentional.

Every every raise, every tax return, it just was automatically the raise that I needed to put on the mortgage every month. Every single month, every single year, if it was $7,000 back, okay,

divided by 12, that's what it goes up.

If if I got she got a a raise at work

for cost of living or something, okay, it's $1,200 divided by 12, that also goes on it. And we just lived exactly the same way for 65 months. No vacations, no eating out, no nothing.

Just >> Wow. >> Streamline. >> And now you're completely done and halfway to being millionaires already.

>> Yes, sir. >> Congratulations, you guys.

>> Thank you. >> Wow. How much How many people making fun of you while you're doing this?

>> To be honest with you, it didn't really think anyone made fun of us. A lot of people were just like, "Wow, that's awesome. We wish we would do that." >> Yeah. They were like I had a lot of people saying, you know, it was that it is unusual. Why do you know why do you want to do it? And you know, I'm just was kind of fed up with some career path

stuff that corporate America does to people. So, uh I got really really aggressive. >> Yeah. >> Get that piece. >> Mhm. Yeah. >> So, >> you got walk away power at that point.

>> Yeah. Yes. >> I know. That's right. So, what's the My favorite question is what are you going to do to celebrate? >> Yeah. >> You haven't done vacation. You haven't done anything in five. >> You're way over years.

Well, we brought all of our kids here today. That was not a vacation.

>> Uh, as far as vacations and stuff like that, I don't I'm I'm not totally ready for it yet. I just I because the mission's not quite done. So, this house is done. Uh, but the house that we have now, you know, is uh we we got a full house. Five kids, nine pets, 1,200 ft.

Running out of room. >> Yeah. So, probably going to take the next year and a half or so, pile up cash, take the equity, buy, you know,

$550, $600,000 house cash,

>> then from there, >> then you can take a vacation.

>> No, take a vacation. >> Listen, I think take one in between.

>> A little one, little one.

>> Oh, boy. >> Congratulations, you guys. >> Thank you very much. >> Proud of you. Pretty amazing. Who was cheering you on? >> Um, our families. Uh yeah, his parents, my parents. Um I'm one of 13 kids, so we have lots of aunts, uncles, cousins, so we had we had a lot of a big support system. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Wow. Wow. >> That's good. That's good. That's the way it should be. All right. So, can this still be done? Do you think people listening can do it? >> Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Definitely. >> If >> you just need to be motivated. >> Yeah, it is the discipline. It is discipline.

If you if you >> Where did the discipline come from? How did you develop your discipline? to be honest I um >> I think it's been a work in progress over the last 10 years. I think he's just steadily got more uh disciplined and everything >> and and I think a lot of it is perspective.

I listen to a lot of podcasts because I do work by myself as a vendor. I get to listen to a lot of it and uh you know being able to hear what other people are doing. being able to um and not just on the Ramsay show but on maybe on on Jaco's podcast or other things like that and hearing the type of disciplines that people go through the life uh things that they go through as well that you know if if the worst thing that I' I've got to do is you know throw product in the rain.

Okay, my life's pretty good.

>> I I can I can hold off, you know.

>> Cool. >> Wow. Well, way to go you guys. Rock and roll, man. That's fun.

>> That's fun. So, how does it feel one more time? >> Feels amazing. It does feel really good.

It feels great. Like you said that >> you brought you brought the kids with you. Are they in here? They're in here to do the debtree scream. Bring them up.

Let's introduce them. Get the names and ages on them. >> Come here. You come with me.

>> All right. >> There's the first one. >> There's the first one. >> This is Declan. >> Mhm. >> We got a Landon.

>> Mhm. >> We got a Anthony. Mhm.

>> We got an Elliot >> and we got my big baby Riley.

>> Ah, I love it. All right. Very cool.

Fabulous, guys. Well done. Well done.

>> Good stuff. Well, these kiddos don't even know how powerful a hero their mom and dad are. They've changed their whole family tree. Everything's different in your house because of your decisions. I'm so proud of you. >> Thank you. >> All right. Michael and Cara and the gang from Virginia. 213,000 paid off in 65

months. Making 96 to 120. House and

everything. Halfway to baby steps millionaires at only 34 years old. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream.

>> 3 2 1. We're debtree.

>> Yay.

>> Oh man. If you didn't know what freedom

sounded like, you can play that back now. That's what freedom sounds like.

That's how it works. >> I love that. That Listen, if you can pay off a house in 5 years, then you can

save up a down payment to buy a house.

You know what I'm saying? Like it's just a mirror to show real estate dream is not dead, >> right? >> They paid off their house. >> They paid off their house at 34 years

old with a house full of kids, by the way, and dogs and cats. Yes. This is not this is not a >> this is this is doable. This is reachable. And that's why we do the debtree screams to remind you guys that real people are doing it too. And that gives you permission to go do it. Hello.

It's called hope.

Heat.

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Heat.

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Proverbs 18:4 is our scripture of the day. The words of the mouth are deep waters, but the fountain of wisdom is a rushing stream. Elizabeth Elliot said, "Never pass up an opportunity to keep your mouth shut.

Make a boring podcast, but other than that, yeah." >> Uhhuh. >> Michelle is in do. Hi, Michelle. How are

you? >> I am wonderful. Dave, Jade, how are you?

>> Great. How can we help?

Well, I was calling in because I need

some guidance uh getting out of a financial mess and um I have been in and

out of this mess for many years and I'm

tired of being tired and I just figure

someone has eyes from the outside looking in and can say, "Hey, this is what I see and I know like I know how to

do it." You know what I'm saying? I just I need I don't know what I need. I just need some help getting out of the mess.

>> Cuz that's what it is. >> Yeah. You're sick and tired of being sick and tired, huh?

>> Yes.

>> So tired. >> Yeah. Okay. So, tell me about it. What's the mess?

>> Well, the mess is I have I I've been uh

I'm in debt. >> Yeah. What kind of debt have you got? >> 40,000. I have IRS debt, $22,000 worth.

IRS 22,000.

>> Yes. 22,000. >> What else? >> Um a car loan 20,000.

>> Mhm. >> Um I have a credit card uh $477

and I have a loan uh I literally just

had my car pay uh repaired and financed

$834 of that$83419

to be exact. >> That it?

>> Yes. >> No student loan.

No. >> You got a mortgage?

>> No. I've got an extraordinarily expensive for my budget uh rent.

>> How much is your tired of paying?

>> $18.99.

>> Okay. All right. Are you single?

>> Yes. >> And what do you make?

>> Um it fluctuates. Um I work um as a

teacher. Um working I work online. So um

I have about one, two, three jobs. Um,

and generally I literally just did this.

Um, in one of the jobs, um, I bring home $500 a month. Uh, let me see. I'm just

looking at the numbers. Uh, $500 a month. The other one is 1,000 a month and the other one is approximately 32 uh

2,800 a month approximately cuz they fluctuate. All of them do.

>> Okay. All right. And how'd you get IRS debt? Some of this 1099 and you didn't

pay your taxes.

>> Well, I was Yes, that is the end. That's the cut and dry thing. Yes, I I've

worked at this one of these companies for 15 years and when I first started, we were $1099 and of course, you know, the tax bill is so high and I couldn't afford it to be quite frank and I've been paying on this since then.

>> Okay. All right. So, for many years you've had this IRS laying there.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, you got 3,800.

You've got uh $4,300 a month take-home pay >> and eight and 2,000 almost rent.

>> Your rent is ridiculous.

>> Mhm. >> Yes. >> It's ridiculous.

>> Okay. How much is your car payment?

Um, it's $427

I believe is the exact amount, but I've been behind on it. So, I literally called yesterday and got a payment arrangement for $500. Um, I've been

paying $430 on it.

>> Okay.

All right. So, um, first thing is we have to address living emergency to emergency. And then the second thing is you're going to have to make some adjustments in your rent.

>> You can't stay there and prosper.

Got it. >> You simply cannot afford $1,899 on

4,300. That's where the That's your math

strain point. It's killing you. Now, how many bedrooms are there?

>> Three. >> Okay. So, the other option would be taking in two roommates.

But if you're not going to do that, you have to I'm sorry.

>> What? >> I said I don't want to do that.

>> I don't want you to do that either. So, you're going to have to move then.

>> Mhm. >> Cuz you simply cannot do this. Okay.

Unless you're going to tell me that there's somebody's offering you a job to double your pay, >> and I missed that in the conversation.

So, yeah, that's this is what's killing you, don't you think, Jade? >> I think so. What can you tell us more about the jobs that you're doing?

>> Yes. So, I'm an ESL instructor and basically it's the way that they pay.

It's kind of like um like peacework, if you will. So depending on how many students I teach for that day, then I get paid. It's basically I get paid for every student that I that I teach >> per the minute. And the other is um it's

um one is the same thing actually. It's just another company. I do that as well.

And then the other job is I work as a tutor um for schools throughout the

United States. Um, I just came off of a job on the other side of this same company, uh, where I had just for 6 months because of the summer, um, where I was working full-time.

>> Is there any decent money in translation at all? >> That's what I'm wondering.

>> Well, I there is, but I don't know any other language. These these companies, these in the >> So, you're teaching English as a second language, but you don't know the other language, >> right? It's It's the unofficial first English is the unofficial first language in South Korea. That's where I teach. So I don't have to know Korean.

>> I see. >> Got it. Got it. Got it.

>> H. >> So you're Okay. >> Like >> my end goal >> is that my end goal is that I'm I've been called to ministry, but I do not

and refuse to be broke.

>> And I know >> I don't know the do Delaware market.

Hey. Is it an expensive market?

>> No, it's not. >> Okay. You just found an expensive place to live. Okay. >> And you This is taking up Is this taking up 40 hours a week or 50 hours a week?

>> Oh, I'm working literally sun up to sundown before sun up to sun down.

>> Let me go Let me change gears back to what I said a minute ago. The first thing you've got to do is to do your detailed budget and you have to prioritize every dollar that's coming in. And the priority sounds like this.

The first thing you buy is food.

The second thing you buy is lights and water. The third thing you pay is rent and it's an adjusted rent because you're moving. Okay? And so we food, shelter,

clothing, transportation, and utilities.

We pay your car payment. We keep the lights on. Okay? So we're not ever

behind on the car again. We're not ever behind on the rent. We're not ever behind on the lights. You've got enough to do all of that. M >> the only question is then how can we make progress when we knock out these first two little debts, the little credit card debt and the little car debt you just took on. But from now on, you're going to be so in control that these little things that pop up are not going you're going to put $1,000 as your baby step one aside savings. And so if a

little car thing pops up, you just pay cash for it. You stop everything. You go back build that thousand back up. Mhm.

>> But you've got to get away from this crisis to crisis to crisis to crisis because it starts to feel like your life's a country song. >> Well, the rent is the unlock for that.

>> Yeah. Well, but being on a budget and a prioritized budget, every detail written

down before the month begins and then it's prioritized. As a dollar comes in, it is already spent because you've got the next thing up.

>> Next thing up, first thing up is food.

Second thing is lights and water. Third thing, shelter. Fourth things, car and car gas. That's it. Next thing up, next thing up and then we're going to knock out the little 400. We're going to build our 800 or build our thousand up. Then we're going to start on baby step two and working our way through that. You adjust that. Um, you also have a car you

can't afford. Um, as well. Uh, and so,

>> yeah, that's, >> you know, I'm going to start looking at that, but it's not as big a pain point as the the rent is. The rent is

>> roughly double what you can afford.

Yeah. >> And so you may you're doing all this remote anyway. You may be moving out a ways from the city to find a bargain in a little bit of a more rural area and get a much better deal of some kind. Uh,

you know, a garage apartment over the back in the backyard of a rich old lady and you move in there and help watch over her a little bit or something and she's make sure she's doing okay and you you get a bargain with that garage apartment until you get this thing squared around. And then when you get it squared around, you get these debts cleared. Then you start to build your good emergency fund. You start to build some wealth.

Then you got some wiggle room to start to build a better quality of life at that point. But in the meantime, we're going to be rice. Rice and beans. And we'll give you every dollar for a year and get you set up and get you going on that.

That's going to really help you with the process. Our gift to you. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

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## 275. You Won’t Win With Money by Accident | October 14, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:03:46 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke. Common sense is weird.

So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. Jade Wall, number one bestselling author, Ramsay personality, is my co-host today. The number here if you want to talk is88255225

and we're going to talk about you right in front of you. Nancy's with us in Clarksville. Hey Nancy, how are you?

>> Good Dave, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> Um my question is I have paid off all my

debt in step two. Um but the problem is

I got involved in a lease for an HVAC system. The total cost of the system when paid off at 10 years will be 62 over $62,000.

So I'm wondering do I pay it off using

the snowball method and just get out of

it meaning I'm responsible for all that or just leave it until I do the house

stuff?

>> Wow. Okay. I didn't know you could do a lease on a heat and air system. That sounds like sounds like >> the attorney general and I went through better business bureau and the attorney general consumer protection department said it is legal. It's being done all across the US. >> Yeah. >> Um so yeah, >> but it's so bad that they Yeah. It's

horrible. Yeah. >> Okay. So a lease typically I have no

idea in this case but typically would have an early buyout provision because leasing is simply financing >> and early buying is termination.

>> Okay. What does it cost >> to terminate it?

>> The cost of the whole contract.

>> No what you have remaining. Yes. Yes sir. >> No. >> Yes sir. 47. Right now, my lease buyout

would be about $47,000.

I paid >> I've paid 15. So, >> now you you had an attorney look at that part also, right?

>> I'm I'm getting there. I right after I did the system, um I got diagnosed with cancer. So, I had I got kind of sidelined for a few years. Now, I'm like, wait a minute. I don't want to keep doing this. This is this is thievery. It's theft.

>> Wow. >> But Okay. because I've I I mean I know

of a lot of equipment leasing, certainly car leasing. Um and I've looked at the

contracts on all kinds of leasing deals, even employee leasing they have out there now. Uh which is really strange.

And um uh uh every one of those have

have a buyout provision that is less than the total of payments because you're giving them their capital early.

you're giving them their money early and so they they're not collecting interest so to speak even though there's not technically an interest rate and so almost every one I've ever seen but I've never seen a heat and air one so I I don't know my god honey um all right so

let's let's do two things number one I want you to reinvestigate that part of it >> okay >> because as as suspect as this whole thing is that part of it suspect so if the total of your remaining payments is 47 A normal buyout provision would put you somewhere in the 30s.

And the way you would do that if that's the case is instead of paying them in

advance like double payments like you would in a debt snowball, you simply save the money up. You pay you pay yourself into a savings account and then write them one check if there is a discount for early payout.

Okay? And there typically is. If there is not either way, what is your income?

>> Uh, I just retired from federal service, so my income is roughly 2400.

>> Okay, this goes in baby step six then

because it is the equivalent of a second mortgage and it's a lean on your house because it's a lean on your heating and air system and you would pay it off in baby step six when you're paying off the house.

Okay. >> Um, what is your interest rate on your home? >> Uh, 2.25.

>> Yeah. No, no, no bueno there. We leave that alone. Okay. Is if you had a higher interest rate, I would suggest refinancing and taking them out.

>> Okay. My mortgage balance is 169. Yeah.

578. >> When you get to baby step six, you knock out the lease first either way, whether you get a discount or not, because it's more than half your annual income. When a when a home equity loan or a second

mortgage of any kind is more than half your annual income, we move it to baby step >> six. Yeah. I've never heard of such a thing as I now.

There's a lot of things that I get on this show that this is where I learn about it. Yeah. >> And then I have to go look it up later and go, "Oh, it is a thing." >> So, um um you know what else? I didn't

ask. She said federal employee. I Clarksville is a is a base military base. >> That's right. >> So these these may be morons that are preying on our military people.

>> Yeah, that's big. That's >> Yeah. Which makes this like double Yeah.

a double negative for this company that does that. So So if your if your son is

out there, mom, and his new job is selling heat and air leases, tell him don't be a crook and go do something else with his life.

>> Oh, there we go. >> There you go. >> I helped with that. Yeah, just throw a dart out there into the universe to see if we can hit a balloon.

Why not? Yeah, man.

Oh, man. Cuz I did have that happen one time. I was ripping on the payday lenders at 800%.

>> Yeah. Oh gosh. Yes. >> And a lady called and said, "Well, my h my son owns two of those stores." I said, "Well, tell him to sell them. Quit being scum." >> Uhhuh. >> He's ripping off poor people. He's oppressing the poor. Read about what happens in the Bible when you do that.

It's not good for you. It's not a place you want to be messing with widows, orphans, and oppressing the poor. These are not three things you want to do in the Bible. And um and really just as a matter of living your life properly. Hello. >> But uh yeah, they're scum. They're scum.

So yeah, shouldn't be don't be scummy.

And and then you're safe on this show.

We'll we'll leave you alone. >> Talk about you. >> We won't talk about your kid. We won't talk about you. We won't do any of that.

Yeah. So, so, uh, interesting to side

note, the lease on a car, and I suspect it's true on a heating and air system is the most expensive way to operate a vehicle. Several publications, including Ramsey Research, have done detailed research on this, and when you run the math out, so you can take a financial calculator and say, "This is what the MSRP is on the car, which is what it's calculated on. Here's what the buyout is

at the end of the lease." A closed in lease always has a number after 3 years, four years, 7 years, whatever it is, you can buy the car for 12,000, but it was a $64,000 car or whatever it is.

>> So, you've got those two numbers and then you have the number that is the monthly payment. When you put those into a financial calculator, you can figure out what the effective cost of capital

is. Uh, that's a fancy way of saying the interest rate. However, interest rates are not disclosed on leases like they are on car loans. The Federal Trade Commission requires they hand you one piece of paper with your APR on it.

Even if they're screwing you, they have to hand you that piece of paper and you'll look down and you'll see 38% or 28% or 12%. You know, you'll know you got subprime, right?

>> So, that cost of capital, there's no cap. >> No cap at all and no knowledge of what it is unless you know how to run a financial calculator. Wow. >> And I've done it on probably 40 or 50 leases over the years. Every time I do it, it comes out between 14 and 17%.

>> Mhm. >> And so those of you that are >> I got my BMW on a lease because my accountant said that was the smartest way to do it. You're an idiot. You got hammered. You're paying 17%. You should

fire your accountant and get rid of your beamer. You're getting hammered.

>> But you never did any math. You just thought you were sophisticated.

Geez. No, you wanted a beamer. That's what it was. And there's a way to get a beamer. Very little down, a lot a month, and very little at the end. Yeah, this is the problem.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." There are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-uping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

Penelopey is in Georgia. Hi, Penelopey.

How are you? >> Hey, I'm good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome. Hey, I was calling because I wanted an unbiased opinion. Um, I wanted to know, should my husband and I be responsible for my father-in-law's property taxes?

Uh, I think you know the answer to that.

What do you think? >> I I I do. I I think I do too. Um, but I

can't seem >> Why does anyone think you are?

>> I should I I can't seem to convince my sister. >> Why does anyone think you are responsible for someone else's taxes?

>> Um, so my father-in-law doesn't work.

Um, he I I think he has um disability.

Um, but I think he can work um a little

bit >> to cover his expenses. And >> how does he eat?

>> I I don't know how he gets all his

money. Like I think he gets some disability. It's not clear to me. I've asked questions. I don't really get a whole lot of answers. >> How long has this been going on? How long has your husband insisted on paying these taxes for him?

>> So, um, backstory. um his so his dad's

brother used to pay them and um he died a couple years ago. So after he died um

he started asking my husband to do it and it was his only >> I'm sorry they

>> they meaning um I'm sorry his dad asked

>> okay him he started asking his son to pay his property. >> So he's been doing this >> how old how old is your father-in-law?

>> He's 60. >> What's the nature of his disability?

um diabetes and COPD.

>> Okay. And um >> and he get So he gets a disability check from who do you know?

>> I don't know. I've asked I've asked the questions but haven't >> How long have you been married?

>> Um we've been married three years now.

>> Okay. All right. So this started happening after you got married.

>> Yes. >> But for some reason your husband doesn't think it's any of your business. That's weird. >> He He just doesn't like to have these

uncomfortable conversations. >> Yeah. He doesn't like to have a conversation that involves him explaining to his wife why he's doing something stupid. Yeah. I have that problem, too. >> How much >> I don't like explaining to Sharon why I'm doing something stupid. It never comes out well. >> Right. How much is How much are the property taxes?

>> I mean, they're not crazy. They're um about 2100 a year.

>> And are you guys in debt?

>> We have a car loan. Um, and we have I I

can kind of consider the daycare because it's just so expensive. Um, so we have daycare expenses. >> What's your What's your household income? Huh?

>> Um, it's about 8,900 a month.

>> And you guys are what, 25 or 26?

>> No, we're 33 and 35.

>> Oh my. Okay.

I missed that one. Um,

okay. Um, is your husband the sole heir?

>> No. So, okay. The property is in the

deceased um uncle's name and his dad's name. It's like 50/50. Um,

but his dad Yes. The He's the only child

of his dad. >> And who's the only child of the uncle?

He has he has a couple kids.

>> Okay. >> Um and his wife is still his widow.

>> Oh, okay. All right.

So, at this stage of the game, uh your best um way this turns out is you guys end up owning half of the property, >> right?

>> Okay.

So, what does your husband do for a living?

>> He is um field service technician. Um he

just got a different job in um coordinating the field service folks.

>> Okay. All right. I I I have a 10%

problem with him spending $2,100 to pay

his dad's property taxes in an undefined situation. I have a 90% problem with how

he's treating you. >> Agree.

>> This is disrespectful to you.

And don't give me the cop out that he's such a wuss he can't have a difficult conversation with his own wife.

>> Grow a backbone. >> Well, yeah, because marriage there's a lot more difficult conversations than this. So, if he can't handle this, then good luck to you.

>> Yeah. >> Well, um what I meant was what? Well, yes. >> No, that's exactly it. Like >> that's exactly it. He refuses to talk about it because he's he knows he's going to lose the argument cuz he knows he's wrong >> and he can't figure out how to weasle his way out of this and he's more concerned about his daddy's opinion than he is his wife's opinion. This is a bad marriage situation for you. Really, really bad.

This makes some really negative comments about the quality of your relationship with your husband >> and and his ability to navigate basic

relational >> bear traps. He doesn't know how to work walk around them. >> It's either that or he you've said your piece and he wants to do what he wants to do and he's going to do it. Well, that's also a bad idea.

>> Either way, either way is not good. Yeah. The problem is not the $2,100 with what you guys make. Sure, you have a car loan.

you can pay that off, but this is really a very small part of your world on a month-to-month basis. So, it's truly not the money on this, it's the relationship. >> Yeah. It's it's he you know, you guys can't sit down and talk about this and make a decision.

He doesn't even want to look at himself in the mirror on this cuz it's a really dumb idea.

Hello. >> Mhm. Maybe if it all goes right and his

crazy cousins don't take him to court and try to get the whole thing later because none of these people did a will either. >> I was going to say sniff that out.

>> Yeah, this is so screwed up. So, no, let's say it was all perfect and it was a will and everything else. I'd still tell you to change it. The only way I'm prop paying property taxes on it is I want it in my name. >> Mhm. >> Go ahead and deed it to me. I pay property taxes on property that I own.

That's all, >> Jade. I'm not paying your property taxes. >> I would never ask Dave.

>> James, I'm definitely not paying your property taxes, >> Joe. I might think about it. Yeah, I'm sick. I'm serious. Come on, >> guys. I know. >> It's just cray cray. So, yeah. The big problem though in this discussion, Penelopey, is the way your husband is treating you and the way you're allowing yourself to be treated.

>> And so, you guys got to get down to the bottom of that. >> And that's the point, right? He's afraid if if he doesn't pay him, nobody's going to pay him and then they'll lose property. And so that is the solution.

>> I bet you this bunch figures it out.

>> Exactly. >> Like you want me to pay them? Deed the whole thing to me. >> Yeah. And then we >> Hey. Otherwise, cousin Otherwise, cousin Eddie, fess up your half. >> Mhm. >> Just roll up here in your RV with your part of the 2100, buddy.

>> Cuz you got two cousins over there that are getting ready to pick it up cuz the widow widow widow widow aunt's not picking up nothing. She's used to the free ride. Oh, free ride is the family script. Oh, and you never question the family script in a dysfunctional family because that might be saying the emperor has no clothes. Oh, we're all crazy and now we

have to talk about it. Oh, God.

>> That's what's going on. >> Oh, I know. >> Once there's a family dysfunctional family script in place and no one's allowed to argue with the lines. You just say your lines and you stay in your lane. You play your part >> even if your part is screwed up. And then comes along Penelope, >> right? And then comes along worse than that. She called us.

>> There you go. >> So yeah, guys, >> uh these types of confrontational, they don't have to be confrontational.

These types of conflicts, they have at their core confrontation. Discussing

uncomfortable subjects is the ability to do that and still remain likable, right? and still remain

loving and still remain kind

uh is the sign of a functional family.

And it's also a signal of whether you're going to end up with wealth or not. >> That's right. That's >> because if you cannot handle and navigate these kinds of things, you going to be broke all your life writing checks for crap that ain't yours. Hello.

That's how this works. It works in every family that way. But the families that can figure out a way and the ones that I've observed that can break the old family script and shift and change, it usually has to do with a faith awakening of a key member of the family >> and they inject Christ into the discussion and they go, "We're going to talk about this out loud. We're not going to duck and cover." >> Mhm.

>> We're going to be bold and kind and loving and we're going to be proper and caring, but we're also not going to be a bunch of enablers and act like we can't talk about it. >> Well, that one's off. You That one's off limits. Off limits.

My butt.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

Our

Every Dollar team is offering a free live budgeting workshops this month. In

budgeting 101, you'll learn how to make a budget with Every Dollar, get tips from our experts, even ask your questions in a live Q&A. Plus, you'll get a stepby-step walkthrough of Every Dollar's features, so you can use the app with confidence. It will guide you through everything in the Ramsay way. By the way, budgeting 101 gives you the support you need to stick to a budget and walk the Ramsy way. Exactly. Right down the yellow brick road, baby. Sign up for a budgeting 101 for free at ramseysolutions.com/workshop.

Paige is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Paige.

How are you?

>> Good. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

My question is that my husband and I were looking to buy our first home here early of next year or middle of next year. >> Cool. >> And um yeah, and my question is um what

are some things that first time home owners like usually miss like costwise like closing costs, realtor costs, inspections? What are some things that first home owners overlook in the buying process? >> That's a really good question.

>> Okay. The first way to make sure the question's answered is get a high quality Ramsey trusted real estate agent in your corner because they're going to have the heart of a teacher because you're going to forget half of what I tell you in the next few minutes. And when you do, then you've got that person that's the heart of a teacher that can walk you right through it. Okay,

>> you ready?

>> Yes. >> Okay. You get them at ramseysolutions.com/agent and you get somebody in your area that we trust and has been trained by us and they will have the heart of a teacher and they will they will not walk around with their nose in the air acting like you already know everything. They're going to make sure you understand every single detail. Now, yes, you need to get

a home inspection.

>> No, you do not need to take it super seriously. If they say the front porch

light is blinking on and off, that's not a reason to walk away from the deal.

>> You can fix a front porch light for a couple of hundred bucks. Shut up. Okay.

>> I want to know about water. I'm always looking >> I want I want to know about major stuff in a home inspection. Mold, >> foundations, heating and air systems that are about to go kaput.

>> That kind of stuff. >> The roof. >> You always get a home inspection. All right. I'm guessing that you might be getting a mortgage.

Yeah, with we're going to do a 20% down payment. >> Good for you. Okay. Now, then all of this stuff has to do with mortgages.

Number one, you will have to set up at

the closing the escrow account. They will call it prepaids and they'll typically collect about 3 to 6 months of the property tax amount and 3 to six month of a homeowner's amount. And that sets up your escrow account for your insurance and your taxes. And then each time you pay a payment, you add a 12th of each of those to that escrow account.

And when the taxes come due, they pay it from the escrow account. But it's a pretty hefty out-of pocket expense called prepaids to set up the escrow.

Okay. The second thing is points. If you

pay points, you will lower your interest rate. One point equals 1% of the loan

amount.

Okay? it will lower your interest rate about 1/8 of a percent per point you pay

and it's not worth it. Don't do it

>> because in other words it takes you eight years to recoup your money. So we don't do that one. Okay.

>> The other one that's akin to that the mortgage brokers a lot of times will charge an origination fee and it typically is one to one and a half points.

And so what you can ask for from Church Hill Mortgage if you go to them is what we call a par quote, which is a little

higher interest rate because you're not buying it down with the origination fee or the points, but it saves your out of

pocket considerable because all the origination fee is profit to the mortgage broker and the mortgage broker also makes a profit when they sell the loan.

So you can get what's called a par quote. They typically will jack your rate a tiny bit around an eighth and a par quote on no points. So if you call me up and tell me you paid a point and a half origination in five points, you know, yeah, you probably lowered your interest rate like one and a half% over under market, but you prepaid all the interest in essence. That's what those two things are.

So we don't recommend doing that. I'm looking for a par quote on my mortgage 15-year fixed. You already know the drill.

Okay, the next thing is you're going they're going to require you to get a survey even if it's a stupid little subdivision lot where it's very predictable and you're never going to have any trouble with those lines and the survey is not worth anything because you're not going to even use it to put up a fence. You got to get a different survey to put up a fence. But this is a loan survey. It's typically hundred

maybe 200 bucks in your closing cost.

It's one of those mystery closing costs.

But the mortgage company simply wants to make sure the house is actually sitting on the lot and not on the neighbor's lot. And I have had those things discovered where the corner of the freaking house is five foot over in the neighbor's lot. >> Wow. >> And we have to kind of do something about that because the mortgage company's not going to loan the money.

Oh, and by the way, the buyer is not going to buy the house either if you got a good real estate agent.

a mortgage title insurance policy. This

is different than the MIP that you're avoiding by putting down 20%. The mortgage title policy is title insurance

that if the title is bad, this insurance

company has to write the mortgage company, not you, a check

to cover if the title's bad or pay off the people that come. So, for instance, one time I bought a house on an investment deal many, many moons ago, and the uh bought it from two sisters who had inherited the land. Uh they apparently forgot that they had a brother. >> Wow. and we signed off on everything and the brother shows up. The title insurance company did not catch that there was a brother in the estate file

estate, you know, the probate file. And so the title insurance company, I had title insurance ensuring that I had good clean title. I did not because I did

only had twothirds of it. The brother had the other third. They came in, wrote bro a check, and bro went on his way.

>> Um, that's called an owner's title

policy. So when you buy the title policy

for the mortgage title insurance for the mortgage company they will allow you for a few dollars typically a hundred bucks again something like that you can ask your title company for an extra hundred bucks you can also get a simultaneously issued exact same thing costs them no

more money it's why they don't charge much for it to give you the owner's

title insurance policy so that if there's bad title the mortgage company's covered and you are covered I highly recommend both of those. I would never buy a piece of real estate without title insurance ever.

>> And I don't. Now, who pays for the title insurance can change from area to area.

And I don't in our area, it's customary for the seller to pay for the title insurance.

And so then you can buy the simultaneous issue for 100 bucks or whatever. Uh but I don't know who's paying for yours in your case. You'd have to ask your local real estate agent that can tell you all of that. You'll also have a document prep fee that pays the title company or

the attorney that's closing it for prepping it. They also on top of that will charge you a closing fee as if they didn't get enough for prepping the docks. They also charge you a closing fee, but they're not huge amounts of money, but you're going to look down through there and you're going to see odds and ends of those. And then lastly, you'll see on the closing statement a proration of the taxes for the year. So if you buy

the house on the 1st of August, uh you

have um four months of the taxes and the

seller has eight months of the taxes.

Now, have the taxes been paid for that calendar year yet? If they have, the seller is going to get a credit and you're going to get charged because they've already paid the taxes through the end of the year and you're going to own the house for four months that year.

Okay? Vice versa, if the taxes are closing in August, but the taxes are due in October, uh you're going to get a

credit for the whole first of the year from the seller for the first eight months. and then you're going to be responsible for the remaining taxes and they're going to show up in that prepaids escrow account that I told you about. All right, so that's a couple of the things you look for. But here's the point of that whole thing.

All this stuff is gobbledegoop and it's all lumped into what we call closing costs and people go, "Oh, my closing costs were so high. It's like it's a vague term." No, you can get in there and dig around and understand what each item is and you can select to not do some of the items in some cases. >> That can be part of the deal.

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Not in all states. >> Okay. Today's question comes from Amy in North Carolina. She says, "My husband and I have three children ages 13 to 19.

We make around $125,000 a year. Our combined take-home pay is $5,100 a month. We have 5,000 in credit card debt, 5,000 in personal loan, and our

monthly car payment is $1,275.

That's all their car payments combined.

We rent a home for $700 a month from our parents. Oh, from my parents. Our oldest

is at her dream college on scholarship, but we have to pay the tuition balance of $1,000 a month over 9 months. We have

nothing in savings or retirement. How can we pay off debt when all our expendable income goes toward tuition?

Our second daughter graduates next year and her dream school is also a private university. We want our kids to go to college. Uh we want our kids to go to the college of their choice, but I don't know how we can pay two tuitions when we're struggling to pay one. Can you help me figure out a plan to make this work? >> Yeah. Oh man. Oh man. Um, so I hate to

say this, but I'm also happy to say this cuz I think it's going to it's going to help you. They can't go to their dream schools.

They can't go to these private universities because you can't afford them and neither can they. And it's really a simple answer. >> My dream car is a Bentley.

>> I mean, come on. I wish I had a G Wagon.

I don't. So, that's kind of what it is.

Um, you're going to have to draw some boundaries here and you're going to have to say no. partially because you can't

afford it and partially because it's not the right who cares if they go to a private school. Who cares if it's their dream school, right? So, there's that.

That's what you've got to do. Um, and yeah, that's going to free up a,000 bucks a month. You've got bigger fish to fry here because you've got a lot of debt. Um, so that's the fir I would say that's the starting point. >> I agree with you. I think I would talk to the oldest daughter and say, "I have a dream.

I have a dream that you got a job." >> I know. and that you paid your $1,000 a month. >> What a life. >> What happens when dreams come true?

>> Yes. You're going to get a job, kiddo, if you want to go to that school cuz I'm cutting you off effective at the end of this school year. This cannot perpetuate. The second thing is this.

The second one's not going to school there. >> You can't afford it. You can't afford it. >> Can't. >> And let me tell you, and it's dumb.

I'm going to go $200,000 in debt because I want to go to my dream school. We have interviewed so many college students like for the uh borrowed future documentary >> and asked them why it was their dream dream school.

>> My friend's sister went there. She said it's awesome.

>> That's how they define dream school. One said, "I want to go to Mississippi and Oxford." Why? It's a really pretty town.

You're killing me here. You're killing me. Your lack of decision-making

ability is killing me. And you're going to go $200,000 in debt so they can go to this school because I've always Let's just say you dreamed of going there because it's a fancy fancy school.

>> Yeah. >> Like, you know, Vanderbilt. Okay. 70,000 bucks a year, right? >> Oh gosh.

>> Okay. Let's just pretend. I mean, Vanderbilt's a good school. >> Yeah, sure. >> There's nothing wrong with Vanderbilt. It's not horrible. Uh, it's got a big name. It's kind of the Ivy League of the South. not they generally until this year not very good at football but they got a good football team this year and um you know but 70,000 bucks a year they got a small undergrad it's about 3500 is a population undergrad is about 3500 uh University of Tennessee is about 35,000 >> and it's 11,000 a year

and you can mow grass and go there and

pay for it >> right but here's the thing though she has this is a long line of bad choices

Yes, >> this is just the most recent one. You you guys are I'm guessing in your 40s,

maybe getting ready to be 50s. I don't know. But you're still renting. You're still paying 12275 a month for cars.

>> Think let's just put that in clarity, Dave. You would rather drive these cars than pay for your kids' tuition cuz your cars are $1275 and the tuition is $1,000. I'm just saying if you were going to trade one for the other, there it is. >> I'll just get rid of both of them. But I'm just saying th this is showing the pri this is just showing a lack of clarity on decision- making. Um yeah,

we're still renting. We've got these car notes and yeah, personal loans, credit

card debt. You guys have got to change your ways. Not just with college, but >> yeah. So, you're going to have to disappoint your children so that they don't spend the next decade of their life being disappointed by student loans getting a degree from a college that's worthless.

>> And where you go to school does not matter. There is no data, zero pieces of

research that say where you went to school caused you to be successful.

None. Not a you went to a good school.

Prove it. What' they do? Nothing.

Nothing, honey. Just like the cereal.

It's exactly what they did. They did nothing. Cuz the formula that makes you successful is called stirring up the person in your mirror. >> Uhhuh. >> And they'll go find the knowledge it takes to become successful. There's no correlation.

None. 78% of the publicly traded company

CEOs went to a state school.

>> Wow. >> Not MIT, not Harvard, not Yale, not

Vanderbilt. I went to the University of Tennessee and people that went to Vanderbilt work for me.

>> Dave, you don't even know where I went to school. >> I don't. Where'd you go to school? >> It doesn't matter. >> Oh, there's that one. I know that school. It >> doesn't matter. >> Yeah. Where you went to school does not matter people. So quit pay overpaying

for where you went to school. That's problem number one. >> Problem number two is help people have a different dream. And the dream is to get educated instead of living your dream at 18 years old. >> The dream is to put some intellectual power in your tool belt so you can go out there, kill something, and drag it home. >> That's the idea. Okay. It is not I and I

just just the the trees are pretty.

You're killing me. And they have a great football team. Do you play football? No.

What's it matter? None of the people that play football there are going to play football at the next level either.

So, let's just call Good God.

>> The college experience. Yeah. And you're $85,000 in debt for your college experience. And you learned how to play beer pong.

>> This is dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. Okay. And it's serious about education. It's dumb. That's weird. So, yeah. Where you go to school matters. Working while you're in school matters. Getting scholarships matters.

And choosing to study something that actually has some use in the marketplace. Getting a degree in lift left-handed puppetry and then saying you were victimized by the higher education system is bull crap. You were victimized by your own stupidity because you got a useless freaking degree and you overpaid for it from a useless freaking university. It's just crazy, you guys.

So, I believe in education. All three of my kids got four-year degrees in something they can actually use.

>> And by the way, we paid cash. And by the way, it was the University of Tennessee Govall State School.

>> Okay? >> And so if you want to go to Vanderbilt and you've got an extra half million dollars laying around, >> go for it. >> Then dream your little butt over there.

Okay? But I I'm telling you, ours didn't have that choice. And I had the money.

>> Yeah. >> I'm just saying nope.

>> With a capital N. Nope.

>> Not doing this. So that that that starts and ends the conversation. But you're right. The big deal in this one is it's an extension of a series of bad decisions.

We're fighting credit card debt. >> We haven't prepared these kids to go anywhere except we apparently never been told no. I mean >> well and there's never been a conversation and I think for me the biggest part when it comes to college, you just you have to do yourself the service and your kids the disservice of talking about this early on.

Here's what, you know, your dad and I or your mom and I are going to pay for. Here's what we're not going to pay for. Here's what you're responsible for.

Here's the list of places that you can go. Here's the list of places you can't go. We expect you to work. We expect you to have work. Whatever that is, just say it out loud so when they're 12 so they can start thinking about it. >> Yeah, man. I say it all the time. My parents, >> here's the purpose of education to make you more effective in the marketplace.

>> Uh-huh. Right.

>> Yeah. My parents told me from the very beginning, you better be good at sports or school because we're you don't have a college fund, so you better figure it out. >> Yeah. >> And I knew that that was my it was on me. >> Game on. Game on. And I'll just go ahead and stir up the rest of you. A friend of mine that's got a lot of money.

>> He's taking his kid on a college tour.

>> I'm like, we told our kids Knoxville where the University of Tennessee is over. It's over there. Run, run over and give a look. [Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Jade Washaw Ramsey personality number one bestselling author is my co-host. Sarah

is in Virginia Beach. Hi Sarah, how are you?

>> Hi, I'm doing well. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Um, I guess I have a question about uh

debt and merging everything. I'm a new wed. Um, me and my husband recently got married in December 12th, 2024.

and I didn't know that he wasn't as

financially responsible as I thought.

Um, he has, I guess, been more secretive

about his debt. I'm a bit more like open

about it and he wants to merge accounts, but I'm not comfortable with doing it as of yet because he's kind of been very secretive and has lied um to me about

certain debt. And I'm working on now using like your plan to get myself out of debt because I bought a home uh before we got married back in 2023. I have a car I'm working on paying off which is supposed to be paid off uh later maybe next year. Um and a couple

other few debts, but he has many more that I'm I wasn't aware of and some that I think he's secretive about still.

we're going to marriage counseling, but I just >> I don't know how to be more comfortable with >> merging our accounts together. And so you're like, we'll be deeper in debt versus trying to have more assets.

>> Give me an example. So, let's clarify because part of part of the solution um

to the problem is you merging accounts because when you merge them, then you can see everything that's going on, right? There's transparency there. So, give me an example of uh what that deceit looked like. Was it I asked him how much the the bill was and he said it was 300, but really it was 3,000. Tell me an example of what that is.

>> Yeah. So, when we um when he moved into

the home um out of his rental, it was

that he wasn't making enough at the moment because he needed to still finish paying off um like electricity bills,

gas bill, things like that. So I told him, "Okay, how long did you need to do that?" And it was about two months.

>> Okay. >> And so when I was waiting for that time

frame, I had got a bill in the mail and

it was from the gas company. And when I

had asked them if he paid it, he told me yes. But when I end up calling them, they told me that there was still a balance of $1,200 for a gas bill. So

>> And when you asked him about that, what did he say?

He told me that it was paid. Um, I never

informed him that I called him until a little later. And he told me that he would end up taking care of it.

>> I mean, when you said I called them and you lied, you didn't pay it. What did he say?

>> He just said that I did. It was It was just firm. He was firm about that he did pay it until I showed him like the bill.

>> And then was he like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't realize there was still an outstanding balance." We're just really trying to get an Here's what I'm trying to get an understanding of. Are you dealing with a liar or are you dealing with somebody who's disorganized and chaotic?

>> Right. >> It's more um he he has lied about many many things. Um which >> not just money it just surpris Yeah.

It's >> three months.

>> Yeah. It's been um I guess 10 months now. But three months into Yes. the marriage I found out that he was lying.

So everything before was being deceived in two separate homes while we were courting and things and then got married and now everything's in the home and I'm seeing it more vividly.

>> Okay. So here here's here's what I'm

trying to be clear about because there is part of this to Dave's point where some people are just extremely unorganized with their money and as they learn to get more organized things get better and better. And then there's another part of you guys are married and I'm wondering what the communication sounds like because of the communication is did you pay the bill? Yeah. and you're keeping it to yourself.

No, he didn't. It's this much. Right. That all of that matters in this in this situation.

Now, what I do think is if he's lying and it they weren't past lies, but they're lies that are continuing on now and you know about them.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. You you have a big enough problem.

You need to be in the marriage counselor's office early and often right now because your communication style isn't good. Because if at my house if I said, "Hey, Sharon, did you pay that?" She says, "Yes." And I went, "I'm gonna check." And I call and they go, "No, it's not paid." I would go, "Hey, I called them. They didn't pay it." I wouldn't wait 3 days and stew about it.

I'd walk in there right then and go, "Hey, what's up? You said you paid this, >> right?" >> Like right then. >> And she would be going, "I thought I did. I screwed up or I was I was ashamed or I was scared or whatever." But at least we get to the bottom of it right then. We don't carry it around for four weeks and and then label her a liar.

because >> that's a bad thing to be married to.

>> And what I'm trying to understand from the beginning of your call is you're saying now he wants to combine money, but you're the one who's afraid to. So I'm trying to understand if he's trying to make it right by saying, "Okay, let's just put everything together. Then I don't have to try to, you know, keep something over here while you have it over here." But you're saying now I don't feel comfortable doing that. So are >> too late. You're married, >> right? Are you worried?

>> What can he do? What do you think he's going to do if you combine finances? Let me ask that question.

>> I think he's going to spend more because I'm uh like what does the term people use?

Like the bread winner. So I make majority of the funds. He helps pay like

since we didn't have a merge account. He would just send me like what does he make? What does he make?

>> Uh that's another thing. He's kind of private about that, too. So he works for a cable company and it's supposed to be quote unquote $12 an hour, but they have a point system. So, week to week, sometimes he says he makes $500.

Um, sometimes it's only$300.

>> So, would he be direct deposited into your joint account then if you combine finances? Is it, hey, now we direct deposit all of our paychecks into this account, not you get paid and then put money into a merge account. All direct deposits go into the same account.

That's how it works and that's the only way we're doing, right? >> Then we know what he's making. Mhm.

>> And what do you make >> in the discussion?

Um, so I make uh 62,000 and some change

a year. Um, >> and how long did y'all date before you got married 3 months ago?

>> Uh, it was um

two years, about two years.

>> And how many times have you sat with your marriage counselor in the last three months?

>> Uh, we've been going consistently.

It's like once every three weeks. And now he's going one-on-one with the counselor and I go one-on-one with a woman counselor. >> Okay. Well, that's good that you're doing that.

>> Um, and at some point we have to combine that process, too.

>> All right. Um, >> sometimes he's a bit of a spender as well. So, it kind of makes me That's I guess that's where it gets me a little ner here's the thing, okay?

If he does otherwise, you're dealing with someone who can't keep a contract now with his wife and then then we got a problem there. That's a different kind of problem. Okay. But you're not solving

a spender by staying separate from them.

>> Combining is the only way to get transparency and accountability on where

every dollar is going.

>> And you need to talk to your counselor about the language you are using towards your husband. >> Yeah. I'm not >> You have contempt all in your language.

Exactly. >> You're rolling your eyes like you're so much better than him on every subject.

And that is one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. The primary reason people get divorced when contempt rolls in. So you've got to solve for that or this marriage isn't going to make it

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music]

[Applause]

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[Music]

>> Justin is in Chattanooga. Hi Justin. How are you? I'm doing well. Thank you all so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> Uh so I'm going to throw some numbers at you. Um >> my wife and I currently uh have total investments of approximately 875,000 in

retirement accounts. >> Mhm. >> We owe 390 on a mortgage at 5.875%.

>> Mhm.

>> Uh home estimate conservatively uh

probably 600,000.

>> Mhm.

uh we are uh inheriting a windfall from

an unexpected uh uh death in the family.

Um and I'm going to break that down for you because that's where the bulk of my question comes in. Um, we uh are getting

approximately 700,000 in a traditional

IRA, approximately 300,000 in a Roth IRA,

approximately 100,000 in a brokerage account, 12,000 in an HSA,

and 150,000 that's in an annuity with

two payout choices. one either lump sum,

which is what I'm leaning towards, versus uh leave it in the annuity for 10 years, let it grow, and then there's a payout at the end of 10 years.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. >> So, >> who passed away?

>> I'm sorry. It was an uncle that was very

uh much in excellent health and it was a very big surprise. >> Wow. >> Yes. >> I'm sorry to hear that, but you we found him. You're the guy that had the rich uncle. Who knew? Yeah.

>> So, yeah. I I I've listened to you for 15 years. I thought I would never be the one. >> Yeah. That's crazy, isn't it?

>> So, uh you want you want me to walk through that? Is that you want what you want us to do? >> Yeah. Well, the two goals are one is to pay off the mortgage and then we're also looking at possibly having my wife stay home with our children. Uh so, meeting those two goals is kind of what we're heading towards. And and how do I prioritize these accounts? Yes, sir.

>> Yeah. In terms of using them. Yeah.

>> Yes. Yes. Yes, sir. >> Okay. the annuity lump sum. You can roll that to a traditional IRA and have um

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're the beneficiary on the annuity.

>> That's correct. Yes, sir. >> Okay. That's just clear money then.

Okay. That's the We're going to use that and the brokerage towards the house. That gives me 250 of it. >> Mhm. >> Okay. The Roth um you can roll to a

Wroth and it can grow from the rest of your life tax-free. It's the last thing I'm touching. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um 12,000 HSA. I don't remember

the rules on that on an inherited HSA. I

suspect it's going to be just like your traditional IRA, which under Biden's new

laws, uh the Secure Act, he called it.

Uh tra inherited traditional IAS or

401ks have to be liquidated over a 10-year period of time because the taxes have not yet been paid on them. And when you liquidate them, you're going to pay income tax on that.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that one you've got to take out over 10 years. Um, and I would sit

down with your Smart Investor Pro and determine how fast I'm going to take that out. But, I'm going to take out enough now >> to get the mortgage paid off.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. And probably in the process, if I can't roll that HSA over, it's probably got to be cashed out, too. It's small.

I'm just going to go ahead and cash it out just for cleanliness.

>> Okay. So, the brokerage, the annuity, and the HSA are gone. The Roth is going to move on. We'll take enough out of the traditional plus taxes to finish off the

amount to pay the mortgage. Okay. Cuz I only got 250 in the first two, brokerage and annuity, right?

>> 2. >> How much was the annuity? >> Yep. Yep. Yep. 150. Yeah. 250 total.

Yes, sir. >> Yeah. 250 total. And I need 390. And so

you're going to pull some of that 700 out, enough to get to there and and enough to pay the taxes that it creates.

And then I'm going to pull the rest of that out gradually over time and to

avoid bracket creep on your income tax brackets. Uh so probably about a fiveyear pull on the balance of that, not a 10-year. And just as you pull it, it's just yours then. You can do with it. You don't have to roll it. You don't have to do anything. But that Wroth is sweet cuz it can continue in the Wroth.

And as young as you are, that 300 could be millions and millions just leaving it alone in good growth stock mutual funds.

Right now, as far as your wife being at home with your house paid off, which is

really all that's happening here, the rest of this is not going to create any cash today to amount to anything. Um,

can y'all live on your income with your house paid off?

>> We can live on just my income alone. um

we to kind of maintain the same lifestyle that we've had, we would need $12 to $1,500 a month. Um which wouldn't

cause a major draw down on any of this.

I wouldn't >> counting the house being paid off.

>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. Yeah. Well, you've done a great job of analyzing it. You know exactly where you are. >> If you're working not working with Smart Ver Pro, sit down with one and map through what we talked about. See if they agree with me. Maybe I'm missing something. I don't think I am. But then you could pull that 12-500 off that 7 what's left of that 700 real easy.

>> Okay. >> It's just taxable. >> It's just taxable. >> Yeah. My big my big concern was not bumping up in tax brackets and paying the government, you know, what I what we could use, you know, for other things.

>> Yeah. You're going to pay the government some this year to get enough out to pay the house off. >> Okay. >> And you might bump your tax bracket this year, but I'm going to go I'm I'm not going to worry about this year. in the coming years 26 and beyond. I'm going to

map out what you're talking about and avoid bracket creep.

>> Yes, sir. >> If possible. And you can do that on it's $15,000 a year is 1,200 bucks. You can do that. That's >> Yeah. Yeah. That that that's all we need really. >> Yeah. That's not going to destroy your life or I mean mess up your bracket creep or any of that stuff.

>> And um I mean and you're aware that the bracket creep is is just a it's kind of a math brittle. It's not like if you move from 36 to 39%

I don't know what your income is but um that doesn't not move 3% on everything.

It's 3% on the last dollar.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, the first the first number of dollars are already going to be what they are. They don't that doesn't change.

But it just means I'm going to pay 39% on it instead of 36% on it because I didn't I didn't put a dial on it. Right? So, you want to dial it to where you just get right up to the edge and then don't pay that extra three on that bracket jump. >> And again, somebody that's doing a little bit of tax work with you can help you do that in your Smart Investor Pro can get that dialed in.

That's very cool. >> That is very good. Wow.

>> Yeah, man. Yeah. And he's already a millionaire, by the way, before we got here. It just goes to show what you can do to change someone's life when you yourself have your finances in order,

>> you know. >> So, he's now worth $2 million.

>> Yeah. Good for him. >> But he did not become a millionaire because of inherited money.

>> No, he was already there. >> He's already there barely. >> Yeah. >> Barely. And then he just doubled it.

>> Yep. That's >> what it amounts to. So, got about a million3 there, I think looks like.

Yeah. >> This guy's not changing his lifestyle hardly at all. He's gonna be the same.

You know what I'm saying? His wife will stay home. They'll pay off their house, but he's not gonna go out and do something crazy because he's been disciplined his whole life. Clearly, Roy's wanted to buy a yacht for $12,000 a month. >> And he didn't call me with that question. This guy's going to be fine. He's going he's got it all dialed in. He knows his numbers, knows exactly where they are. See, that's the thing.

>> Even if you didn't do stuff exactly the way we teach, >> if we can just get you to pay attention.

>> Yeah, >> that guy's paying attention. Mhm.

>> He knows exactly where he is. He's already had thoughts about every one of these things >> and he's paying attention. And so you have to be proactive and happen to your money, not have it happen to you. And when you're teaching the budgeting classes, that's what you talk about.

>> That's right. It's about you for the first time looking at everything and you stairst step on knowledge, right? That guy said he's been listening on and off for 15 years. And that's the way it goes.

That's the first step. And then after a while, that knowledge starts to compound on itself. And before you know it, you're just like, you know, the fellow that just called in here. >> Yeah. >> Fully in control. >> A couple of million million. Two and a half million. Yeah. >> In a heartbeat here. Wow. Very cool.

Very cool. So, by the way though, some

of you out there that are doing all your talking and your theories and everything, uh, Roth IAS are not subject

to the Secure Act when they're inherited

>> because they're taxfree.

And so I have moved everything I have.

I'm 65 into Roth at my baby step seven.

I heard you answering a question about that the other day. You were correct.

>> You know, you pay up pay taxes and convert to Roth. Pay taxes and convert with extra money cuz then it grows not only taxree for this generation, but also for the next generation. And they're not required to withdraw it.

>> They can just let it grow. Like that 300 Roth he had, he can let that one run.

The other one, he's got to cash it out cuz Biden wants his money.

[Music]

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[Music]

If you're out there running around and you're in the Nashville area, stop by and see us at Ramsey Solutions. We're down by Franklin, Tennessee, just a little bit south of Nashville. We got a big, beautiful campus and a wonderful reception area with a little museum in it and free cookies that are homemade.

Yum, yum. Free coffee that's homemade.

Yum, yum. Smiling people. And there's always 50 to 200 folks sitting out here watching us do the show. We do it on the glass from 1 to 4 central time every

Monday through Friday. And among the people sitting in or among the area where you sit in to watch the show is the debtree stage. People come there to do their debt-free screams. It's our favorite thing we get to do around here is to celebrate with people when they have won.

The only thing that's more favorite is when it's one of our own >> from Ramsey Solutions, one of our team members. And uh that's the case now on the debtfree stage. Shauna McCully, her husband Chad. Sean has been with us for 17 years in the finance and administration department of Ramsey.

a debt-free scream. Congratulations, guys.

So proud of you. Now you actually did this in staff meeting the other day when I was leading staff meeting. I got to be there when you did that and our staff just goes bananas. I mean 1100 people screaming when you did your debtree scream. Plus she's been here 17 years so everybody knows Shauna. Right. Right. And loves her and so forth. And you too Chad. Thanks.

>> All right. So uh how much debt have you paid off? >> $336,000.

>> And how long did this take? It took us 17 years >> and house and everything.

>> House and all. >> Okay. Very cool. Very cool. But there were a few stops along the way, shall we

say. I won't spo I won't spill the beans. I won't spoiler alert. I'll let you all tell the story.

>> Yeah. So, uh, just a few stops along the

way. We have a new baby in the beginning

of that. Mhm. >> Um we've paid cash for eight cars, two transmissions, over $100,000 in home repairs. >> Mhm. >> And um six years of cancer treatment >> for two different people.

>> Yeah. >> These two. >> These two right here. >> Yeah. >> So, how old is Lexi?

>> Alexa is about to be 20 in December.

>> Yeah. >> I remember when Shauna walked into the office and tears run down her face and said, "My baby's got cancer." And I went, "Whoa, I can't breathe." And she said, "Well, try being me. I can't breathe either." >> Yeah. >> And I'm like, "Well, we got your back. We're going to walk with you. Whatever it takes as you need, whatever you need through this." And >> for a little while, we had a little bald toddler running around here.

>> And uh she was cute. She was a cute little bald cancer survivor. Yeah.

>> It was very cool. The fact that you were surviving was made everybody happy. We weren't worried about your hair, I'll tell you that. And um neither was she.

>> Yeah. uh she wasn't old enough to even care hardly but um and then we get the word that she's beatated and uh comes the other side of it and then >> so then uh so she was 3 years old her

treatment went for three years uh and then I think 5 years later in 2017 I was

actually diagnosed with the same cancer that she had and beat and so I went through three and a half years worth of treatment uh to get through that. So, I'm I'm now 5 years out.

>> Yeah. Congratulations. And we walked with y'all through that, too. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. It was incredible.

>> And and watched you change from uh deputy sheriff to uh real estate uh extraordinaire agent. >> Yeah. >> There we go. And uh yeah, the whole thing. So, 17 years we've been doing this together. >> Yeah. It's been a it's been a wild ride.

>> Yeah. And now the house has paid off.

>> The house has paid off. >> And so, that's why we say 336,000 over 17 years. Now, we don't ask uh what they make because their 50 of their teammates are standing around. So, a little bit unfair to do that. So, we ask the rest of you what you make and you have to tell everybody in front of everybody. But, we let them off the hook on that.

So, but I mean, needless to say, >> um >> quite a bit of cancer in that 17 years and quite a bit of the rest of normal life >> in that 17 years and you still managed to walk through and get the house paid off. How's that feel?

>> It feels incredible. But I mean, even through cancer treatment and new cars and unexpected home repairs, we never

went back into debt, >> we always had an emergency fund or just

really great people around us that >> made sure that we never had to want for anything. >> Wow. So, how do you celebrate what happens next? You've come 17 years to

this moment.

>> So, travel.

>> Yeah.

uh immediately we're uh we're going to be getting some new cars. We got to update some of the cars that we're driving around. And so we're going to do that and then we're uh I mean the first thing that we did after or the first budget that we did when we didn't have a mortgage is we decided that we are going to give a heck of a lot more.

we're out having fun and we're doing it.

>> Cool. >> Very cool. I'm proud of y'all. Um

I think your story is a story of perseverance. >> Uh sticking with it forever >> and now you and now you get here. What's the secret to sticking with it? Because most people just quit.

they just throw up their hands and go, "Well, it's too hard." >> Yeah. And and for us, we had, you know, it was student loans and a mortgage. So, we never really got those small wins, you know, like the credit cards. We didn't we didn't have credit cards.

So, we didn't get the little small wins along the way. It was two big huge numbers. >> And the only thing that made us go is like the reason why why we're doing this, what's going to be on the other side of it? And we just had to keep going.

just get up every day and go and do it.

>> Yeah. Well, they also understood you were fighting a bear with a switch. I

mean, it was hard. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It was hard. It was a process, man. And

the team made sure that that everything was good all the way all along the way. I watched them take care of y'all >> and they did a great job. >> Yeah. I mean, we have friends in the lobby today. We have one who paid our mortgage for 2 months. We have um a friend who when our transmission went out let me use his car for free for a month. I mean, we just had people love on us so well. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's the only way you get through it. And that's incredible. Wow.

So proud of y'all. Proud to call you friends. Proud to call you family. Glad you're on the team here. And uh yeah, you definitely need to do some traveling. You've earned it. You've you've paid the price to win. You've lived like no one else. And now you should by God live like no one else.

>> Absolutely. >> So I want you to get her a good car.

Chad, come on. >> We're working on it. >> All right. Here we go.

>> All right. $336,000 paid off in 17 years, including two different bouts of cancer. Several other items that are more normal that went at them, but they they stuck with it and pushed their way all the way through. I'm so proud of you guys. Chad and Shauna from Nashville, Tennessee, count it down. Let's hear a debtfree scream.

3 2 1. We're debtree.

[Music]

>> Wow.

>> Now, all you co-workers that are in here cheering him on, get back to work.

>> Dang, Dave.

>> The whole lobby's full of Ramsay out there. Everybody loves Shauna.

Oh boy. Oh boy. >> Oh, it's fun, man. >> Good for them. There's so there so many people would have given up. They didn't.

>> No, they didn't quit. They didn't quit.

And sometimes and they didn't go backwards. That was the other thing.

They never stopped and said, "Oh, well, you know, we got to we got to buy a car and we've got cancer and the transmission went out and so we had to take on a car payment." >> They didn't say that. They they just figured out a way to gut it through. Somebody loaned them a car, somebody helped them out. >> Somebody did that.

sometimes team members, sometimes neighbors, sometimes church members, whatever. And uh walking through the whole whole process. Pretty incredible. Very very well done.

And they're just neat people. They're just fun to be around. They're they're excellent. >> And obviously her again, the team just loves her.

Everybody's known about her story and their story all the way for for years now. Uh again, been on the our team here for 17 years as well. And that's when they started the process. So very cool stuff, man.

house and everything is paid off.

while. So, what about what about you?

What are you going to do? Yeah. Talking

to you. You know who I'm talking to.

What are you going to do? You keep being normal.

Have you not noticed that normal sucks?

Really? You don't want to be normal at anything? Gross. No, we won't be normal.

I want to be weird like Shauna and Chad, Addison and Alexa.

[Music]

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. I have awesome friends. I got a great faith and I have an amazing wife and family. I've also got two PhDs worth of information about how to be well. And yet, the times that I've spent with great therapists over the years have made all the difference for me. The right therapist can change everything about your mental, emotional, and relational health. And this month, my friends at BetterHelp are shining the spotlight on the therapists, the people who truly make the world a better place.

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[Music]

Top questions people have about online wills. How do I know if I need a trust or if my estate is too complicated for an online will? Well, unless your estate is over a million, I would actually say five or 10 million, you probably don't need anything but a will. Um, if you have a special needs child, you might want to put a special needs trust in the will that is formed upon your death. Uh,

and how is that funded? With life insurance, typically until you've built some wealth. What do you need to start your online will? Well, you need to think about things like who do you want to get your stuff? Who do you want to take care of your kids? Who do you want to make decisions if you're incapacitated? The medical power of attorney and so on. Is an online will legally valid? Absolutely they are.

They're valid with your state. By the way, probate law, the law that dictates whether a will works or not is state law. It is not federal law. And so, it's different from stateto state. What is required for a legal for a will to be legal and valid. If you move states and

you're residing in a different state when you die, your will from the other state might not be valid.

>> So, you need a new one.

>> And so, jump on ramseyolutions.com/willsquiz.

You can find out if an online will's right for you. We can help you with that with the Mama Bear folks. They do a great job and uh and or you know, hook

you up with an attorney even to get your if you've got a super complicated thing.

But most of the time, wills are not that

complicated. There's just a few items in there that you've got to get right.

>> And that includes the signature and notary pages, >> which some states have different witnessing requirements and notary requirements. And that that's the one biggest thing that causes them to become invalid. >> Yeah. >> Uh and so, yeah, just jump in and get that stuff done, folks. Jay's in Phoenix. Hi, Jay. How are you?

>> Hey, I'm doing great, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? Um, so I'm 27 years old. My fiance is 29 and we are $85,000

in debt. Uh, I make a h 100,000 a year.

She stays at home raising our two kids uh doing full-time schooling and we are also going to be having twins here uh in about five months. >> Wow. >> So, I'm uh yeah, I got a lot going on there.

But uh so I'm looking to get into uh

home ownership after getting out of debt, of course. Uh right now we just rent an apartment. Um and you know, real

estate's always appealed to me. I definitely want to start off with like a duplex or a forplex. Uh but before that,

obviously, I just want to figure out how we should prioritize paying off all this

debt that we have. And also um later on

uh towards you know my my early 30s I'm looking at switching careers and pursuing a pilot's license which obviously I have to pay about $100,000 for and definitely don't want to go into debt for that. >> All right. >> Any advice? >> Yeah, you I do have some advice. You got a lot going on. So my first piece of advice is just to focus on one thing at a time or at least whatever the matters are at hand because you're talking about a forplex talking about flying planes.

You've got twins coming in 5 months and

the first thing I think on the table is the debt to talk about, but the the the biggest thing is these twins that are on the way, right?

>> Absolutely. >> Okay. So, I agree with you. I think the $85,000 in debt needs to be paid off.

However, focusing on the matter at hand is these twins. And so I think the first thing that you're going to need to do is stack up the money as though you were paying off the 85,000. But instead of paying it off, just set it aside because we want to make sure that everything is good with your wife, with the twins, with the hospital bill, everything like that is square before we take all of our income and start, you know, pounding this debt with it. Make sense?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Whose whose health insurance is covering this?

>> Uh that's a great question. So, uh, unfortunately, uh, I don't really have any health insurance. Uh, my fiance

doesn't either. She's actually in the process of getting, uh, you know, state insurance, which is kind of difficult, um, in Arizona. So, worst case scenario, if she's not able to do that, then I will just figure out how to, um, pay for

an insurance policy for her.

>> A little late, she's already got two babies coming, >> so uh, getting that covered is going to be an interesting process. Um,

all right.

So, the first thing I would do is get married this weekend.

I am really worried about your fiance.

She's getting ready to have four children, no income, and no husband.

That ain't cool. You owe her more than that. So, I'd get married this weekend.

She's so exposed right now. financially and legally and everything else that it is terrifying to me. I know you think everything's going to be okay. But the only thing I'm sure of as an old man is that everything is not ever okay.

Nothing ever turns out exactly like it's supposed to ever. And so you have to put everything in place you can to make sure you play defense as well. And so I'd get married this weekend. I'd get this insurance thing straightened out and then I would do what Jade's saying and then start stacking cash as high as you can stack it because if you're ever going to have a problem with a pregnancy, the probabilities are much higher when you've got multiples.

>> When were you planning to get married?

When was it on the books for?

>> Yeah, that's a great question. So, um, the only reason why we haven't actually legally got married yet is because, you know, her schooling right now, uh, she's not going to get the financial aid or assistance to be able to do that for free if we get married.

>> So, I don't want my wife to get off of welfare, so I don't want my girlfriend to get off welfare, so I'm not going to marry her. >> That's what you just said, dude. That's not okay. So, her schooling is way not a

problem. She's full-time taking care of kids. >> Mhm. So, she didn't need to worry about school right now anyway. >> Yeah. You said she was going to be a stay-at-home mom. So, that's a moot point. >> Yeah. I'll we'll go back to school when we get out of debt and can save up some money. But if the only way you get money is appearing to be poor by shacking up versus being married, that's insincere.

Sorry. I'm going to call you on that one. And so, sorry, not sorry. So yeah,

I'm telling you, man, for her sake, I'm begging her to force you into the preachers's office this weekend.

>> Yeah. >> And and let's get this solved now. Then I'm going to pile up cash as high as I can pile it up. And then when babies and mommy come home and we pay whatever medical bills that we don't get covered by this forced place insurance policy, and I don't know what you're going to end up with there, >> it's going to be expensive. >> But um you've got to cover those bills.

And again, twins are more than twice as expensive as singles. And so, uh, there's just stuff that's going on there. And, uh, so we just want to be prepared for all that. Then when whatever money is left from that stack, when mama and babies come home healthy and everything's good, we apply to the debt snowball.

And that's where we list it, Jay. Smallest to largest. Pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Attack the little one with a vengeance.

When it's gone, attack the next one. When it's gone, attack the next one. Every time you pay off one, the payments that you don't have there anymore will help you pay off the next one. the snowball rolls over, picks up more snow.

a year if I wrote this down right.

>> Yeah, that's right. But he needs to be going. >> You live in Phoenix, Arizona, and you have now five children.

>> Yeah, I I heard that right. He needs to be going hard in the paint until these twins are born and even after because this is about to be an expensive life.

>> Yeah, you're getting ready to have an expensive life after they come, >> before they come, too. and as they come.

And so we've got to take care of every bit of that. And then um then when we get out of debt, we'll start worrying about an emergency fund.

When we get that done, we'll start talking about a down payment on a house.

>> So you're three to five years out from home ownership.

And that's if you work a lot and you get good raises and you're very very very careful with your money. That's about where you'll be somewhere in there. And it's doable. Mhm. >> It's not impossible, but you're going to have to start making better plans and better decisions than you've made to this point to push these things away. If some of that $85,000 is a $55,000 car you drive, sell it, my friend.

>> Agree. Yeah. >> Sell it and get your life back. It owns you. You don't own it. Uh but if it's just $75,000 in student loans, you can't do that. >> Yeah. Just >> So that's the thing.

>> All right. I have now interviewed

personally thousands and thousands and thousands of millionaires. Ramsey Research has interviewed over 10,000. I've talked to

multiple billionaires that are first generation rich. The number of them that got there because the government paid

for some part of their life is zero.

If your best plan is to figure out the way for the government to pay for some part of your life, you are not going to be successful in this life.

Reset your thinking. Success does not come from Washington DC. Santa Claus does not live there. I know him. He lives in the North Pole.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome, welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios.

Jade Wshaw, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author is my co-host today. Open phones at88255225.

Lucy is in North Carolina. Hi, Lucy. How are you? >> Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for talking to me. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, I wanted to reach out about um just a situation that my husband and I are in. I don't really know what to do from here. So, the backstory is um in 2020,

really at the peak of COVID, um we

actually moved to the mission field. We were missionaries u for two years in the

Dominican Republic. And once our two-year contract with the ministry was over, we um flew back to North Carolina

and um my husband went straight back to work and I actually um got pregnant over

there while we were on the mission field. So we came back with another little one and um I actually started

working in in North Carolina as well. We put him in daycare. We quickly realized that the amount that I was making did not justify me working. So my husband and I agreed um that staying home um me

staying home with our child was the best option and things got a lot better for us just in our marriage. Um but soon we

realized that we were running out of anything that we had left. Um we were missionary so we didn't have a lot to begin with but um we really just don't

know what to do from here. He's currently getting his um license to be

an electrician. So, he's getting his hours and then he can take the the test to be certified. I also um stay home

with um our second child. We've had another child since then. And we use our credit card um to pay for things like

gas to put in our cars and groceries. We just we ran the numbers about 6 months to a year ago and we're in the red. So, like we don't have anything left over to put into savings or to put anything extra on a bill. um we're about $50,000

in debt. So that's um both of our student loans combined. Um and then his truck payment, which he owes about $7,000 on that. And then um we owe about

5,000 on something on um or sorry, another 8,000 on our credit card. So that's what that is. Um but we're renting our um our little house right now. It's two bed, one bath. So it's very small. Um we don't live beyond our

means. We >> Yes, you do. You just said you did.

>> What do you mean? >> You spend more than you make.

>> Oh, yes. Yeah. And >> that's the definition of living beyond your means. >> What exactly What exactly do you make? I know you said your husband's studying to be an electrician, but what's he making now? >> So, his gross income is about 70 grand.

He works two jobs to help keep me at home. >> Um, but like when I say that we don't

live beyond our means, what I meant by that was >> you're not living fancy. >> Mhm. Right. Right. We're not >> I didn't think you were doing fancy, but you are spending more than you make.

That's not sustainable mathematically.

You're That's why you're calling because it's freaking you out and rightly so.

>> What job were you doing? What job were you doing before you had the two kids?

>> So, when we moved back from the mission field, I got a job as um at Chick-fil-A

actually, but I was their uh office manager. So, I did all of their numbers.

I ran I did their credit. I did all of their bills. I did, let's see, I was

making 19 an hour.

>> Okay. What' you bring home every month?

>> Uh, I don't remember. Um, I worked 40 hours a week. So, I mean, I can do the math really quick. >> Well, the the reason I was asking is because you guys need money. Like, there's two parts of this equation. When things are tight like this, you can cut everything from the budget, right? But if you're not bringing in enough money, the next part is now we have to work more. and you said your husband's making working two jobs to bring in the 70k.

The first thing that you said earlier was when you had the one who was in daycare, you guys said that you weren't making enough. And I'm like, I have two kids, you know, I know it costs >> $1,200 for one kid to go to, you know, daycare for the month. And I'm like, surely you were making over $1,200 a month. Um, now with the second kid, I don't know. How old are they now?

>> So, my little my oldest will be four this month and then my youngest will be two in January. >> Okay. So, you got a house full.

>> Yeah, you do. Next year, one of them will be going to daycare or to kindergarten. But my question is, do you I guess my bigger question is, can you make more than 3,000 bucks a month, which is what daycare costs >> or can you work from home while the kids nap? >> That's another question.

>> Well, I do sell I do sell sourdough on the side. So, I do bring in, you know, sometimes it's $100 a week, sometimes it 20. >> You do what? She sells sourdough, which that's great, but I'm talking about solving your big problem. Yeah.

>> Different kind of bread, >> like real bread. Yeah.

>> $20 or $100 does not solve this problem.

No, I'm talking about you get an extra job that you work from home four hours a day while the kids are napping. >> Yeah. Or a call center thing that you pick up at night when they've gone to bed. >> Yeah. And your husband's not doing that much extra. When does he pass his license?

>> Um I believe he has about two years left. trees. >> Here's the thing. I want to I'm going to level set this because uh there's part of this if you know you called us, there's not going to be a quick fix for this and everything that we're going to suggest is going to be uh it's going to feel very off-putting and none of it's going to be convenient.

So, that's part of this that you kind of have to if you can accept that point and get to acceptance there, then you'll be able to do this. But if you're looking for something that's gonna kind of allow you to keep doing what you were doing and not really notice, then we don't have that solution. You're gonna like this is gonna hurt >> because you need the money. You know what I'm saying?

And that's the hard part. >> Yeah. You're in a mess. >> And it's it's an it's an income versus outgo issue.

>> And your outcome, as you said, is not fancy.

>> And so he's making good money, but not great money. >> You didn't call me up with him making 170, making 70 and two years before he gets a bump. >> Yeah. How much is rent?

>> It's 1,100. >> Not bad. Not bad. Okay. So, what what's

his extra job?

We dropped You dropped out. Come back again. >> He does trash valet. So, he goes to apartment complexes and he picks up their trash. >> Why does he not do electrician as his extra job?

>> I don't know. I don't know that he's ever really looked into that.

>> It's a lot more than trash valet.

>> I don't have to look into it to know that. >> You'd be surprised. He makes 25 for electrician right now and then he makes 22 for his trash.

>> Okay. >> Okay. That's >> Yeah, but I'm saying um I'm going to guess and say if he helped guys wire houses cuz I'm thinking he's running a union track, right?

>> No, sir. He works um No, he he he does

residential electrician right now. Oh, >> okay. All right. Yeah. I I'd be shocked

if he couldn't get some overtime doing that or work for someone else to do that

on the weekends. Um cuz he has the knowledge. He just doesn't have the license. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And um but I I don't care. Um he's

going to have to work until he's just completely exhausted to get these numbers fixed. And you are going to have to pick up some income of some kind that's not $20 sourdough bread. That's real money. >> And I need I need you doing something that's 3, four hours a day and you're making a couple grand a month >> and you put that in there. This thing starts to turn right side up and you can begin to pay extra on these things. Make sure you're putting nothing in retirement. Make sure you're not getting a tax refund.

If they're taking too much out of his checks and you're getting a tax refund every year, you need to correct those W2s and bring the right amount home, which is more than you've been bringing home. Don't loan the government money all year and then get it back. That's called a tax refund. Don't do that. Um,

and look around and figure out what else we've got that is that doesn't fit this scenario anymore. And um, yeah, that I'm

with Jade. This is going to hurt. It's going to it's going to be harder before it gets easier. >> Yeah, that's right.

[Music]

Real estate's wild out there. Interest rates are dropping, boys and girls. If you notice, we're down to five and a half on 15-year fixed.

>> Wow. Market is picking up. Prices are

starting to tick up already. Inventory is ticking up already. It's a crazy time. If you're going to list or sell a house, you need a pro in your corner.

High octane, high protein, not Aunt Sally, who got her license 3 weeks ago.

She's going to screw up the deal.

>> Oh boy. >> I know she's your aunt. I know she's sweet. And you might want some of her sourdough bread, but don't buy real estate from her. Okay, that's it.

Period. So, don't do that. Now, go to Ramsey Trusted and we have vetted these agents. They're the top agents in the nation. They'll help you get the right

house in the right way, the Ramsey way,

and you can trust them. We've spent a lot of time coaching them, training them, doing due diligence on them. They are the top performers in your area. To learn more for free, go to ramseysolutions.com/market and we'll help you out with all of that.

Lynn is in Philadelphia. Hi, Lynn. How are you? >> I'm good. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up?

>> So, uh, my husband and I, we currently live in the Philadelphia area and we're talking about moving to the Charleston area. Um, once this school year is over,

>> the issue is that, >> uh, cuz that's where his parents are and, um, his family and we've been up

here for 20 years, we kind of want to be down there now. >> Like, no family ties in Philly. None at

all. Okay. My whole family is east like

in Maryland and yeah, no family ties in

this area. >> Is there a job there in Charleston?

>> For him, he is work from home. So home is where the Wi-Fi is. It doesn't matter where he is. >> Uh the issue is my job. My job I can't

do my job is specific to my area. I

can't do this job in another state. And

this job doesn't quite exist in the same capacity in the Charleston area

down there. What's your job? So, I'm What's >> I'm a supports coordinator. I help individuals with intellectual disabilities get funding to Medicaid and

Medicare to pay for staffing and supports and living expenses expenses

and things like that. >> Medicaid and Medicare are federal programs. >> Yes. But um the f So it's a weird like

the state pays a certain amount.

>> Yes, that's true. Okay.

>> Yeah. So >> and South Carolina doesn't have the same program. >> It doesn't it it it doesn't at all. It

doesn't have the same infrastructure. It doesn't have the same kinds of jobs. It has similar things.

>> Yeah. What do you make? >> So similar I make 50k right now.

>> Well, you can find 50k in Charleston.

>> Yeah. I was going to say at the at the lowest like at the most common level what is the job? Is it management? Is it logist? Like is it project management?

What is the act? Does that make sense?

>> What's the task? >> Social social work.

>> Social work. Okay. So there's something social work existent in Charleston. It just may not be exactly in the field that you were before. Right.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I've been looking like I'm I'm already like preemptively job hunting and looking. It's there would be anywhere from a $10 to $20,000 pay cut.

>> You haven't finished your job search yet.

>> I've been to Charleston, South Carolina.

It's not 50% of Philadelphia. I'm sorry.

>> What's your husband make? >> Wrong. Wrong. Bad. No. No.

>> My husband makes about 120 125 a year.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, no, I I you know, but he makes that wherever he goes. And you're going to sell the house. You have own You own a home there in Philly? >> We own a home. >> Yeah. So, I'm going to make I'm going to make my my decision.

>> My flowchart is when I get a job, we move >> and so I need to get a job now and I don't have to take a pay cut to get a job. I disagree. I want a pay increase.

Now, let's reset our mind. >> Love a pay increase. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, let's let's be realistic.

You have a you have a unique set of skills, but the nuanced information that you have is useless there. and you told me and I believe you. Yeah. >> In in Charleston.

But the big picture type of information you have and the ability to manipulate programs and pull them together for other people's benefit is a skill not many people have. Now, I don't know exactly where that applies in Charleston, but uh I want you to start thinking a little bit broader. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do.

um which might be like our worst case scenario if you don't get the job with the raise like I'm suggesting that you get a job close to your old pay with the potential for a raise by getting in the proximity of people doing what it is you want to end up doing.

>> But once we kill the idea that you're going to find the exact program, which I'm buying you on that one, I think you're right. um because I did leave out

the part where Medicaid and Medicare is state uh half of it state funded.

>> So uh and some states are more sophisticated in their application of that stuff than others. So I'm I'm going with you. South Carolina probably doesn't have that program, but they've got other ones >> and they've got stuff that's so to the

layman looking in from the outside that's so similar, but to you it looks way different and that's the one you need to be doing. And I don't know what it is exactly, but you have the unique

um gifting of working with special needs

and working with the government program to pull things together to cause people's lives to be benefited.

>> That's a gift. And not many people can do the things that you do. So, I've just got to find a place to apply that that adds enough value that they're paying a measly 50 grand. It's not like you're trying to look for a half million dollar job. It's a $50,000 job. You can make that almost at Target working 40 hours a week. I mean, it's 20 bucks an hour now at Target. So, um, you know, that's I I

want you to kind of get in that mindset that this is not a it's certainly not a

$20,000 I wouldn't accept a $20,000 job. That's a cut by 20,000. No, no, no, no. So, hang on. We'll have the Christian pick up and send you all that stuff. I think you're better than you're giving yourself credit for. But you need to pan back and have a broader >> vision of how your skill sets can apply.

>> And when you do that, you're going to land the job. And when you do that, you're going to move.

>> Um and and that's how I would do it.

Don't set yourself up to end we had to move. You don't have to move. There's no hurry. The only hurry is emotions.

You're wanting to move. I don't blame you. >> Yeah, that's true. >> I'm once I get my mind already in Charleston, it's hard to do anything. That's it's hard to do that. But yeah, think think that through that way.

Folks, let me tell you something that Ken Coleman and I have talked about for years and Jade has been in on these discussions.

There's something about

changing jobs uh against your will.

>> Oh, >> you get laid off or your husband moves and gets transferred. So, you got to go get a new job >> or get fired or whatever.

>> It's interesting that the human brain for some reason, we've noticed this with people immediately thinks that I have to

get paid less, that I lost my job and I couldn't find another job and so I get paid less.

as opposed to you were sitting there in

the job, everything's going good, and somebody calls you up and offers you $20,000 more than you used to make, >> right? Why can't it be glass half full?

>> And you go, you go, "Well, of course, I'm going to do that." And so you leave and you go take the new job with a $20,000, $30,000, $50,000 raise, right?

But that job was there for the person that does the same job you do that got laid off two weeks ago somewhere else.

Mhm. >> And they don't think about the $70,000 in her case, $20,000 raise.

>> They think about the $30,000 >> for some reason. It's something about, >> well, I just can't do that. And so I end up with less. >> Yeah. >> And >> that is just a mindset thing. And I remember motivational speaker many, many years ago telling the story. He said, "Let's pretend that you went to New York City and you were interviewing for a job and you really didn't think you were good enough to get the job. you your confidence wasn't strong.

The morning you get ready to walk out of the hotel room to do the interview, the phone rings and it's your wife and she says, "We just won the lottery. We got a million dollars. Don't go interview.

Just come home." And you go to your, "Well, what have I got to lose? I'll just go down and talk to him anyway." >> But now you don't need the job anymore.

>> Right? >> And you walk in and you get the job plus a signing bonus because you didn't need the job. And then you come back to your room and the wife says, "Oh, you know, we made a mistake.

>> We didn't get the all." What changed there? Nothing except your mindset.

>> Yeah, that's good. >> Your mindset changed and how you approached how you walked in to do the job interview, the way you carried yourself, your voice tone, the pace of your voice, the energy level you had, that last little shine on the shoes, whatever it was. >> That's good.

[Music]

[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jose and Janine are

with us. Hey guys, how are you? >> Good. >> Good. Dave, how are you? >> Better than I deserve. Where do you guys live? >> Live in uh Ring, New Hampshire, which is about 40 minutes west of Manchester, New Hampshire. >> Cool. Welcome to Nashville. That's a bit of a haul. Good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off?

Um, so we paid off $283,218.

>> Wow. >> Wow. Good for you. How long did that take? >> Took us nine years. >> Good for you. And your range of income during that nine years?

>> So our starting income was uh 112,973.

Our ending income was 133577.

>> Cool. What do y'all do for a living?

>> Customer service.

>> And I'm in sales. Uh, sell packaging.

>> Very cool. Good for y'all. And is the 283 your house?

>> 283 is our house.

>> I'm looking at weird people.

>> Yes, you are. >> Why you've got the t-shirts on that say it's okay to be weird. I like it.

Congratulations, you two. What's this house worth? >> So, the house is worth 466,000.

>> I like it. Good for you. And how much money is saved in retirement?

>> We've got uh 587 uh saved in retirement.

We're looking at Baby Steps Millionaires. >> Way to go, guys. >> Y'all are so weird. I'm proud of you.

Well done. Well done. How many millionaires in your family?

>> Zero. >> One. >> Wow. One. You.

>> Jose. How old are you?

>> I'm 52. >> Wow. Way to go. >> Good job, you guys. That is amazing. I'm so proud of you. >> Thank you. >> Did you ever think when the two of you pups got married a couple years back, how long you all been married? >> We're celebrating our 20 year anniversary. Oh, 20 years ago, you looked down and did you ever think?

>> Never. >> No. >> No. We kept saying someday.

>> Yeah. But how?

>> Realize someday wasn't on the calendar.

>> Oh. So, what's what sparked it then? I mean, what caused you from going to from someday to today's the day?

>> Uh, so I was lucky enough to have a really good friend, uh, Jason Gardner, mentor of mine, who, uh, actually shared your podcast with me. uh we'd go to the gym regularly and he said, "Hey, I think you should listen to this guy." And um kind of had me in the car locked for half hour or so, so we'd listen to your show. And uh I made the big mistake. I got I you know, got on board and uh came home and I said, "I got this great plan, honey.

We're going to sell your car." >> You know, you did it. I did it.

stepped in it big.

>> How long did it take to get your foot out of that? Oh. Uh, a while actually.

Yeah. >> Took a little while. >> Janine. Jannine, I want to hear that from your side.

>> He said, "I have this plan. I want to sell you a car." And I went, "Oh, no, you're not.

>> You need a new plan." >> Uhhuh. Yeah. >> So, how did you get on board then?

>> What happened? How did you bring that around? How'd you straighten that mess up, Jose? So, uh, actually listening to someone else's, uh, debtfree scream, uh, I remember somebody saying, um, your why

has to be bigger than your butt. And I just found that comment to be funny, but it stuck with me because we needed to have a strong enough reason for why we were going to do this and why we wanted to get out of debt. And, uh, ultimately

that reason was we didn't really know

anyone who has was debtree. We didn't uh

you know, but we knew that we wanted to do this journey because we didn't want to grow old and still be working beyond our retirement years. We wanted to be able to enjoy our retirement. Um you know, as as David, you know, as you say, live and give like like never before so later you can live and give like never before. And that was our main goal.

>> Yeah. >> Way to go you two.

>> So Janine, when you all sat down and started talking about the why, that's when we figured out what we got to do, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It it took a little while of sitting

down and budgeting and letting my guard down.

>> The wall was was there.

>> Yeah. Sure. Sure. That's fair. Well, it should be. >> I mean, you got you have to have you have to go what? You got another scheme?

>> Yeah. >> Got a little scam. Yeah. >> We're going to have a yard sale. We're going to sell your car. We're going to we're going to sell everything. >> And somehow it was all your stuff.

>> Who knew?

Oh boy. >> So great. That is great. Well, I'm proud of you guys. Very, very well done. Who was cheering you on while you were doing this? >> Uh, so we've got we've got our friend uh Jason and uh uh there was a couple other guys that uh I was able to work with that uh are also cheering us on. Uh Mike Leone and a few others, Evangard. And uh

they're they're actually following your plan now because of um because of our story. And so it's exciting. Yeah.

>> Yay. It's spreading. >> That's great. I like it. >> What are you going to do to celebrate?

>> We're going to have a really good dinner tonight.

>> We are going out to eat. Go for it.

>> Have you booked a restaurant already? You're here in Nashville. >> Oh, no. Not yet. >> Oh, well got to get on it.

>> And there's some good food in Nashville now. You can go You can go big here now.

And guess what? You're millionaires without a house payment. Go big.

>> That's right. >> Go big. Enjoy that bottle of wine. Yeah.

>> I want you to. That's fabulous.

Congratulations, you guys.

>> Thank you. Very cool. So, what do y'all tell people? The key to getting out of debt is >> submit um submit to somebody else's plan. That's a that is a proven success. Cuz it wasn't until I did that that I started seeing my life change. Um when I came to Christ, I submitted to him. When I came to my finances, I submitted to this plan. And um it's been it's been just a

a beautiful beautiful >> very cool. What do you tell people, Janine? >> Intentional. You need to be intentional.

>> Yeah. I >> And those are good words. >> Yeah.

>> Intentional and submit. Good words. Good

words. That is exactly how it works. And so, yeah, if you're going to hire a personal trainer and he's got a six-pack and you got a keg, you probably ought to listen. >> Yeah. you know, probably ought to submit

>> there's something going on there. Some there's a difference between these two things. This is a Sesame Street moment.

One of these things is not like the other. And so, yeah, that's the thing, man. It's it's true about everything we do. We all have to find something. Um, and it's uh, you know, and it is helpful

when you have Christ in your life because you've already learned how to submit to a a greater power that loves you. Amen. It's got a plan. That's that's, you know, and it's not it's to bring you hope and not bring you harm and so on.

And so then when you come along to something else, it's a biblical concept like these concepts and you go, "Okay, I'm going to submit to that and we're going to do that that way." And then you do another one and then you do another one and it's it's amazing what happens to your life.

>> So, so proud of y'all. Way to go. Very, very cool. Uh, I don't know if I've talked to a millionaire today. >> That's pretty cool. >> That's pretty cool. >> I need to get my daily quota. That's right. All right. Jose and Janine, Manchester, New Hampshire. 283,000 paid

off. House and everything. Baby steps millionaires by 52 years old. Making 112

to 133. Count it down. Let's hear a

debtree scream.

>> Three, two, one. We're debtree.

>> Woohoo.

Yeah.

>> Oh, look at them. >> I love it. >> So good. >> I love it. They uh 20 years married, came from New Hampshire to do this.

dressed the part, had the t-shirts, the matching dress, the whole bit, >> and uh got it dialed in, man.

>> But look, like you can see it brought them together. Like you can see that.

Yeah, man. >> Once once she once he got over trying to sell her car. Yeah.

>> Right. >> Wow. Very well done. Very well done.

That's what it is. I mean, we almost never find a couple like never that are

um at odds with each other that hate

each other that do this. Of course, >> you know, we never find people that uh that it's easy. >> Mhm. >> I mean, occasionally we run into one of those. They they they something happens, they get some easy money, but most of the time these debtfree screams, I mean, this is nine years.

>> Yep. Yep. >> In a in a world where people can't stick with something for nine minutes >> and they stuck with it for nine freaking years. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Yeah. >> Number one character quality of successful people, perseverance. They don't quit. They don't quit. They don't quit. >> Nine years. That's where all that emotion comes from. Nine years.

>> Yeah. And now they win. I love it. I love it. I love it.

[Music]

Heat.

Heat.

[Music]

Our

scripture of the day, Romans 16:19.

Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you. But I want

you to be wise about what is good and innocent about what is evil.

Thomas Soul said, "Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded

good."

>> That's >> That's interesting. >> That's just dead on right there. He's a quote. He's a quote machine. Uh Beth is in Texas. Hi Beth. How are you?

>> I'm good. Mr. Ramsey and Jay, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a longtime fan. >> Thank you. How can we help? >> Um, I'm hoping to make this question efficient because I feel like a lot can be packed into it, but my husband and I both come from I I would say extreme wealthy families and we have five children of our own. Um, and some our

older ones are dating with the purpose of marriage now and excuse me, how we can navigate potential marriages and

prenuptual agreements and just I was just wondering how you handled your children getting married. >> What a great question.

So how much how much you said extreme we so you and your it's all in your you and your husband's name now right?

>> No. Um so what my my side

>> and his side both is they both have

wealth of their own and um so

>> one side has given all of our children a lot of stock. I mean, and you know, between 150 and 200,000 in stock, and

then when they're 16, they get a vehicle. Um, and then they're possibly going to get a house. And so, just things things like that with me staying on top of entitlement. I promise you, I promise you, I'm really working on that.

But, um, you know, letting them enjoy their their grandchildren and seeing them getting to enjoy it, but also

making sure that they stay servant-minded and and not, you know,

there there's just a lot in that. There's just a lot in that. But >> there is there's a there's a weird combination between >> It is. It's hard. It's um I I now that

I'm the other side of it and we're on the grandkids and the kids have all been married for at least a decade. All three all Gen Two Ramsies are been married at least a decade and I'm so I'm kind of past it. I look back and I I used to say I hit the son-in-law lottery and then I went uh no, I actually told my girls

taught my girls how to pick and they picked good ones because I run off the losers, you know. And um so I

the instruction and the lack of entitlement and the spiritual underpinning is more responsible for ours

um picking well and more responsible

than as a result of that for not um

not having the need for a prenup and not having um the attitude that it matters,

Right. >> Um, so

>> can I can I I want to jump in as a as

devil's advocate a bit. So sometimes we get the call from the actual spouse, the

person who's going to marry someone and they say, "Hey, I have a lot of money and I have a lot of money in my family and I'm thinking about doing this prenup." And we're not necessarily against them when there's a certain number of money involved. So how do you >> mainly if there's a large discrepancy?

>> Yeah. Where do you where does that line fall? >> Well, Beth, you and your husband both had wealth in the background.

>> You're both second gen wealth, right?

>> And we both we we signed a prenup and we've been married 21 years this month.

>> Okay. >> Um, and that's okay if you just do that.

If you just do that straight up, >> if there's a concern and you just do that straight up because you're talking about a million dollars or something. You're not talking about 10 million. You're not talking about 100 million. >> No, no, we're talking I mean it's it's over 50 million each side. I mean, and >> not yet. Uh, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying potential and >> Okay. Now, there's two different subjects. Okay. The sub subject number one is the current asset base of the person getting married.

>> Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. >> And that's under a million.

>> It is >> 200,000 in stock, maybe a house, right?

And so, um, so that's not that's not as big a concern. If they lost all of that in a nasty divorce because there was no prenup, then we would be no big deal

because they're getting 50 million.

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, that that's >> it's the difference between their personal wealth and your family's.

>> So, I I would spend 90% of my energy on

training the child even as an adult >> prior to marriage. >> Absolutely. >> That they are not the owner. They're the manager of God's resources. And it sounds like you're already doing all of that. Okay. Yes, sir. You leaned in immediately on no entitlement. You know, you you know, you're not raising trust fund babies. Damn it. You know, that's what you said, right? I heard you.

>> Yes, sir. >> I heard you and I like that. Okay. So, now that solves part of it. Now, then the second part is the generational wealth. The I can give you a fix for that. That's no prenups that we did.

Okay. We did that with the uh Ramsay

company, Ramsey Solutions Company. Uh,

it goes to the Ramsey Children's Trust.

>> Yes, sir. >> The stock is owned by the trust. Okay.

And the terms of the trust are you have to be blood relative.

>> Okay? >> Or you can't touch it.

>> So they're out. So the outlaws are out.

Period. And no divorce court judge can can interfere with that trust in any state. And so the trust has more power than divorce court judge. So that trust

that no if if something happens with one of my kids and they get divorced, their

spouse is not going to end up owning part of this >> because this is in the trust. And so you could take portions of that wealth, whether it's a piece of large piece of property or a series of properties, the ranch, whatever it is, a a a segment of

whatever, and leave it into a children's trust. There's other estate planning benefits to that, too, by the way, uh, that your estate planner can help you with. And you need some estate planning if you're sitting on 50 million because you got a problem generational. You got a problem.

You're going to blow out the exemptions and have estate tax. Um, unless that stuff's already in a trust of some kind. So, you've got some generational skipping trust stuff to learn about and do. But anyway, the way we one of our largest assets is this company.

And probably our second largest assets is this campus. and both of them are owned by the children's trust. And so some of the other stuff they might get or not get in a divorce because it's not in trust and there's not any prenups. Um but that's how we did it.

put the big stuff in the trust at death or before death and the trust has a no

one but blood. So grandkids are in but

uh if if you're you know you weren't born a Ramsay, you're not in it >> no matter what. husband's side is is got quite a bit of that like what he's he's got a trust that has some sort of that stuff in it. >> Yeah. >> Um and but our our my side um I it's not

talked about as much but we're getting there. >> You need to because it's going to cost you $10 million if you don't.

>> Yes, sir. I know. Believe me.

>> Yeah. It's uh but anyway, once you get that settled, it once it's in your control, your will could state that it's left to a children's trust, >> whatever it is, >> and you could have that same provision I've got. And then there's no need for a prenup. >> Okay. So, I mean, >> but they still can end up trust fund babies if you don't do the other stuff.

>> Oh, I'm telling you, we don't need that.

>> No, they can be. I mean, you leave them money, they can be idiots, right? I I know you gota train them when you preach to them it's not ours like we are stewards of God and that's >> and you'll know that they get that if they feel the weight of the wealth

>> rather than the celebration like they hit the lottery.

>> Yes sir. For sure.

>> Sometimes I I see our kids shoulders drop >> like this like there's a burden of this.

There is it's a burden to it.

>> It it can be. >> You got you have to manage it. You have to manage it for Jesus. That's your job.

>> Just to and to honor my my parents for working so hard to honor. It's it's a big responsibility. But he didn't mess up. God didn't mess up. He knew.

>> No, it's not it's not a mistake.

>> It's not a mistake. And somebody's got to manage it. It might as well not be the other side. >> That's right. That's right.

>> Yeah. I mean, this idea so you you can manage it for God's glory. And that includes taking care of your family >> and that includes some enjoyment of the money, but not exclusive enjoyment of the money. It includes working.

Our kids have to work. You're not in the trust if you don't work. So, if you're on the back of a yacht doing cocaine with your girlfriend while you're married to somebody else, you don't you're not in the trust anymore. You're done.

Uh you can you can lose that, too. So, yeah. I mean, we put provisions in there to take care of this stuff cuz we want it to be a blessing and not a curse. And that's the bottom line of what she's asking.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> And it and it can be done, but most of it is in the training of the next generation.

Most of it.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 276. Your Bank Account Shouldn’t Define You | April 15, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcrGsXpPehA) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:36:33 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm George Camel joined by my pal and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour, Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Nia is going to kick us off in Cleveland, Ohio. Nia, did I get that right or is it Nia?

>> Nia. >> Yes, first try. All right, we're off to a great start. Nia, how can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, so I was just wondering kind of um what me and my husband should set up our budget on. Just to give you a quick backstory, me and my husband, we eloped.

We got married early because we wanted to just have a good foundation going forward into our wedding as far as finances. Um, I work in real estate, so

the insurance rates got super high for me. And I was like, well, let's let's elope get on a normal insurance and then put the rest of our money um so that we could cash flow our wedding versus pulling from either of our savings. Um, and we've mostly been able to do that.

Um, except for the final cost of the like the food, um, based off of the headcount. Um, but I just started reading your the total money makeover book. Um, our original goal >> was to buy a house probably within the

next year, a year after the wedding. The wedding's um, this coming May. Um, but after starting your book, I realized that we may not have enough to start it.

Uh, as based off of the three to six months in savings. Um, currently we have about 30,000 in savings. Um, most of it is in a high yield savings account. Um, and we don't we don't touch it whatsoever again except for pulling for the final count for the food. Um, and I

I thought that was a good amount moving forward to, you know, get a house. Um,

but our three to six months worth or six months worth of savings is about $24,000.

So I would like, oh, maybe maybe we don't have as much as I thought. And so I wanted to know your guys' wisdom on, okay, how much do we need um to start

saving for our house? Um, we're both completely debtree. We paid our ways through college. Um, we don't have car loans or anything like that and currently we rent. >> Awesome. Well, you guys are doing great.

I want to encourage you. everything you've laid out. I'm like, they are crushing it. And I'm glad the book just kind of gave you a little pause to go, hey, we're going to be broke if we just jump into a house with close to nothing down and nothing in savings. So, you're right that we got to get through this wedding first, then we'll see what's left moneywise, make sure we got the emergency fund, then anything beyond that becomes our down payment savings plan.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. How much will the food cost for the wedding?

>> Um, right now we're looking at about $3500.

is it could go up depending on the final RSVP, but we're assuming we're going to put out 3500 and everyone keeps telling us that last minute expenses are going to come up. So, in our mind, we're just even though 3500 is the amount that we think we're going to spend, we're thinking of 5,000. >> Sure. Yep. I think that's a great plan.

So, so out of that, you'll have 25 left.

And you said 24,000 is a six-month emergency fund for you guys, >> correct? >> Okay. Yeah. And what you could do just to just to kind of press play on this

and like keep moving forward because you guys um well you're you're in housing.

I'm trying to think of your um your careers how stable they are. Would you say you guys are in a pretty good spot?

>> We're in a pretty good spot. He works in um well I work in real estate and then he is an engineer. I mean he has a very stable job. >> Okay. So what you could do honestly because we say three to six months of expenses in the six month side I always

like more I'm more comfortable with that if there's you know two people working or one person working multiple kids um

there's a lot going on that six month cushion usually feels good but you guys at you know you don't have kids the responsibility there you're wanting to buy a house so if you wanted to go to the threemon the 12,000 versus 24 6

month >> I would be okay with that so you could say Hey, we have $12,000 earmarked after

the wedding for our emergency fund.

That's a check. That's baby step three.

And then baby step 3b is that down payment. And you guys will have $12,000 to kind of jumpst start you guys into a house to get you there faster if you wanted to. More conservative people would lean to the six month, but because of your situation, I'd be okay if it's closer to three months of an emergency fund.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, and is there any I again I just started listening to you guys um and reading the book. I didn't know if you guys had any more suggestions. We always just know to live below our means, but all of the things that I'm learning in the total money makeover is is more than what I've ever known. So, I didn't know if you guys had any tips.

>> Well, as far as home buying, >> um, no, in general, like >> life tips. I mean, there's a lot. That book will cover a lot. You're right.

Living on less than you make will get you very far in life. You can actually build a whole lot of wealth just doing that.

>> Yeah. But where you guys are, I would say n that you know working together as

a couple is going to be big because money fights and money problems. It's one of the leading causes of divorce in America. I mean it's just it tears apart couples if you are not on the same page with money. It's a really hard marriage when you're both on completely separate pages.

You just continue to have conflicts and butttheads. So So I would say that's a big goal for you and your new husband to say, "Hey, let's we're going to work together. We're going to be a team. our income when we get paid comes into the household into a checking account and we see that as the household income, right?

Like it this is our money. The more you guys can work as a team and start functioning the relational side of money, that's a big thing you guys can be working on and talking about. And out of that, you're going to have goals together, right? This house, this is a great goal for you all to say, "Hey, let's look at the numbers.

Look how much we need for a down payment of at least 5% on a 15-year fixed rate. how much cash above that 12,000 do we need to save? And so you guys will find a kind of a number, a range for that.

>> A little wedding gift. >> A little wedding gift. How nice. Yes. So that you guys can start budgeting together because that's another part of all of this is actually being intentional with your income. Not just living below our means and just kind of doing it, but you're actually doing it with intentionality, right? that you actually know where your money's going.

So, there's bits and pieces to all of it. Again, I think that book is a perfect um guide to all of this >> and you'll reference it back. So, just focus on the one thing you need to know at this time and then you can circle back on the investing side and saving for college one day. So, don't feel like you need to learn it all right now.

Your singular goal now is get through the wedding debtree and then whatever is left over that becomes our emergency fund plus home down payment. And I would earmark it in a separate high yield savings account so that it doesn't get co-mingled with the emergency fund. That just helps me not feel guilty when I go to use that money for the home down payment. And then just figure out, hey, how much can we realistically set aside each month?

To go with our future incomes.

>> We are setting aside um realist right now with the wedding, we're only setting aside about 800 a month because we're wanting to pay for most of it through cash flow. But um realistically after the wedding we have decided we'll set around 2,000 uh to 2500 aside each

month. >> Great. Okay. So that's about 25 grand a year. So in one year you'll have 25 grand for the down payment. In two years it becomes 50 grand. >> Well plus the 12,000 >> plus your 12. Rachel is very generous.

>> I know. I I wanted you to >> What really will will happen is you guys will be making more money as a married couple who is very intentional and all of a sudden you'll be saving 3,000 maybe even 4,000. and all of a sudden this will speed up the process and you might have 50 to 100 grand saved up in no time. >> So don't rush it. Do it when you're financially ready. Nobody's yelling at you if you get a house at 28 versus 24.

>> Yeah, renting is not bad for now. And you guys are doing awesome. Just like George said, you are on the right track without even knowing it. I mean, yeah, you're in the right direction. >> Crushing it.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up, or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance going to replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

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Beth is up next in Chicago. What's going on, Beth? How can we help today?

>> You with us? >> Oh, yes. I'm here. I'm sorry.

>> Okay. Crisis averted. How How can we help? >> Hi. So, my question was regarding a prenup. Um, my boyfriend and I have been

dating for about a year, so we're speaking about marriage, and he had mentioned that he would never get married without a prenup.

I've always been against the idea of a prenup. I do understand the logic behind them, but and he's worth a lot more than

I am financially. He has a lot more in assets and all of that.

So, I just feel like if a man says that

he won't get married without a prenup,

it makes me feel like it's an unsafe marriage for me to enter into because he's planning for divorce basically or

preparing for it, if that makes sense.

>> Have you shared that with him? Those exact words? >> Yes. >> How did he respond?

Well, he said that he feels like I'm

being ungrateful because he would be

willing to, you know, take on me and my two children and I shouldn't question.

>> So, this is an act of charity for him and you should ask for no more.

>> He's already doing the most by letting you into his life.

>> That's I mean that's kind of the >> that's how it makes you feel. Does that feel on brand for him? Like was that a shocking answer? You like, "Wow, that's not what I was expecting you to say." Or was it like, "Yeah, it's kind of like his like emmo."

>> Well, I was I was pretty surprised when he said that and it was a little upsetting. >> Mhm. >> And I I don't I mean, I understand that

money is important obviously, but there

are things that I value more than money.

And there's no amount of money that would be worth a divorce to me or like dragging my children through a failed marriage and all of that. So, >> is this second marriage for both of you or one of you?

>> It's a second marriage for me. I was married young. Um, but we were married

for about 6 years.

And when I was getting ready to have our first our our child, he decided he

didn't want to be married anymore.

>> So, I've been a single mom for the last 11 years.

>> And this is his first marriage. He's never been married. He has no children.

So, he's he's only he's been alone his whole life. >> Okay. And um and you have one child, you said?

>> I actually have two. So, I had a second child. She She just turned three.

>> Okay. Okay. Not with him, though.

Correct. >> Right. >> With this boyfriend. Okay. So, so um how

much more is he worth than you would you say? 10 plus million, a million, half a million, less than half a million.

>> I don't know exactly. The number that he gave me was 2 million. Like between retirement and assets, savings, all of

that. >> Okay. And what is he wanting to protect going into this marriage exactly?

>> Anything that he has right now. So all of his assets and retirement and all that. He says it wouldn't be fair if we were to get divorced. It wouldn't be fair for me to get half of everything he's worked for. And I understand the logic.

And I'm not saying I want half of everything. I'm saying I don't I don't want to go into this marriage like talking about divorce because I'm 36

years old and if I'm going to be getting

divorced in 5 years, I'd rather not get married. >> Right. Right.

>> I hear you. >> I think you guys are just missing each other communication wise. And he has his reasons and you have your reasons and neither of you are getting to the root of it and understanding each other.

Well, and my problem, Beth, is, you know, I don't think he's necessarily in the wrong because I will be honest, our teaching around prenups. It kind of varies a little bit. Like, we don't really have a hardcore teaching. I think we were more hardcore no prenup for a long time.

sake. So, I'm not going to say that he is wrong. What where I do think he's wrong and what what I get the ick about is the way he's responding to you in it.

And it makes you feel like he's valuing his money over you. And that's how it feels. >> And so that's the problem that I have, right? His response to you at the beginning of this call, what you said, I was like, "Oh my gosh." That's why I asked like, "Is this like his is this how he is?" Because he kind of sounds like a little bit of a jerk, right?

versus someone that's going to take care of you where you're like, I don't like the way this is making me feel, you know, and Beth, you could you could own it all and say, this may be more my issue than yours. And I wish he came with some empathy on the table, say, I completely understand how that how this is how this does kind of feel off because I I could only imagine being a single parent, raising two kids, and then I'm putting this paperwork in front of you that feels so like latigious, and it's just, oh, it's not a good feeling, but here's where I'm at.

Right?

>> I think you may be feeling better. But it's like he keeps doubling down and the the ickiness of what prenups do to people, the grossness. He doubled down on that. Do you know what I mean? Like he didn't help the prenup uh like the

the prenup, you know, fight in that. Does that make sense? >> He didn't set it up well. And what happened here is the prenup is a tool.

It's not evil. It's just a tool. And he's using it as a weapon >> to say, well, you should be on you're ready. Yeah, that >> that part gave me the ick for sure.

But I think there is a compromise here where you can instead of you getting defensive, just say, "Hey, I'm open to hearing more about what you're thinking when it comes to this prenup. Can you can you share some details about how this would be set up? I would love for this to be fair to both of us." >> And Yeah. Sorry, George.

>> That's it. I mean, that's it. That alone, he's like, "Oh, I can be disarmed now and not have to bow up." >> Sure. Yes. And if you knew going forward

how you guys are going to work together

in your marriage with money, like that may be helpful too. And that's where sometimes prenups can get a little bit convoluted. If if you start comingling

finances, which is what we talk about that you need to be working together and you are one, while his retirement, all that will still be in his name. Um, but we we see it from an emotional standpoint as this is our household finances together. Once we get married, we say we are one in every aspect.

That's what we're going in saying, but also that we're going to be one in the subject of money and and he's already started the conversation off as already it's split, right? Like we're going to be two is what how it feels. So, I just want to make sure in the marriage you guys are working together >> and that you are being taken care of and that he's being taken care of. Like, you know, you both have that >> give and take in the marriage when it comes to money.

And I don't want it to be one-sided.

to continue to isolate the other spouse to say, "Well, this is my money. This is your money. I'm working hard." Right? If you look down two years and if you want to be a stay-at-home mom and he makes, you know, enough for you to do that, but yet he keeps saying it's my money over here, that is that's not a marriage.

>> You have to ask for an allowance. I mean, that's where it gets toxic. So, I would get a full picture of what money is going to look like in this marriage.

And if the prenup makes sense as a part of that, great. But if you guys are unaligned in every other area with money, that is a huge red flag that we should not move forward.

>> Yeah, that makes sense.

>> So, get clear with them tonight. sit down and say, "Hey, I want to know more about this. Would I be a beneficiary as long as we're married on your retirement accounts and on the real estate and any future wealth, any appreciation of the house and of your retirement accounts?

Any wealth that we create together from here on out, would I be entitled to half of that?" Those are things where you start to understand and get in the minutia of it, you might go, "Oh, okay. That makes sense." It just sounded harsh on the front end, >> right? >> Yeah. And he didn't help his case, though. The way he treated you the way that sounds, too. So, um,

>> yeah. Yeah. So, I think I think you go in with some caution, but a lot of clarity, Beth. And I would not sign anything until you feel comfortable, though. So, I don't want you to feel intimidated. >> Never feel pressured into like, well, this better happen now. Ultimatum.

That's another red flag.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like if he would break up with me over a prenup, then that is him choosing his money.

>> You dodged the bullet there. If that happens, >> I agree with that, too. >> You should be thankful. You should write him a thank you note if that happens. Y >> to spare you. Oh my goodness. Well, we're rooting for you, Beth. I hope you guys can come to a consensus that is fair and equitable for all without the ick. That's the goal here.

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What's going on, Dan?

>> Hey, how can I help? Uh I just uh so I have

some money that a couple years ago I put in with a family member who had some investment stuff that he was doing and it's not not a huge part of like my savings or anything but it's just a little bit. Um and I guess it wasn't really worked out in the initial agreement like what his cut of the money

was going to be as he'd manage the investments. And so we're working on that now. And what was mentioned to me was like a two and 20 structure with like a 10% hurdle. So like get the first 10% and then anything above that like he would get uh 20% but then somebody else mentioned the 25% and to me those that's 25% number. >> Was he a financial adviser or is this >> some back alley deal?

>> He's just a family member who talked to some finance people and worked out some investment thing and he's been doing that and making pretty good money. >> Sketchy all around. What kind of investment is it? Is it in the market like index funds or mutual funds?

>> Yes, it's a it's in yeah well it's based on the S&P 500 for the most part but >> this is highway robbery. The standard in the industry is around a 1% AUM fee.

That's assets under management.

Sometimes it's one and a quarter maybe upwards of two in a crazy scenario.

>> And he wants >> but 20%.

Uh yeah, that's just anything above 10%.

But like anything above the 10% like if we make over 10% profit on the air, he gets 25% over that. >> He should though. >> Does he work for an actual like registered investment adviser? Like an actual firm?

>> No. >> You keep saying like, well, he's got some guys like he's like a middleman and he's >> I would get your money away from this guy ASAP. Who's this family? Is it an actual like like a cousin, a brother?

Uh yeah, brother-in-law if he's not like

running it through anybody else. He's handled it all himself, but it's just something that he >> Okay, so he's a DIY investor and he's just offering his services to you for a steep fee.

>> Uh I mean, we haven't really agreed on the fee yet. That's kind of what >> happens if he loses all your money.

>> So, >> uh if I lose that money, but it's not it's not a huge part of my >> How much are we talking How much have you given him so far? >> Uh it's only 10 grand.

>> Okay. So, what I would probably do, Dan, when did you give him this money to invest? >> Uh, about two and a half years ago.

>> Okay. How old is he?

>> Uh, 40.

>> And does he do this regularly? Like, is

this like a side?

>> He had been working on it with his own money for a while before he like opened it up to anybody else.

>> And again, >> worked for him. >> Is he using like a Fidelity or a Vanguard? Like, does he have a brokerage? through it's through a brokerage. I think it's E Trade maybe.

>> Okay. So, it's basically it's something you could be doing because he's not really moving money around, is he? He just picked an investment and put it in.

>> But you'd be better off just doing this with an actual professional who's licensed.

>> Right. Okay. >> So, how much money did you originally put in two and a half years ago?

>> Uh, I put 10 grand in two and a half years ago. It's up to like 15 grand now.

>> Okay. I was going to say I was like, if it's still at 10 grand, this guy needs to go to prison. What >> I mean the market has done really well the last few years. >> Yeah. So number one I would I would untangle this whole deal. It's just you know the whole money family minutia.

It's not it just never really ends up good. So I would just say hey bro uh I

just want our relationship to be clear

of any level of entanglement when it comes to money. I just I'm started not to feel great about it. You've done nothing wrong. I freely chose to do this, but I've been, you know, reading some books, doing some stuff, and I just think, are you married?

>> Yes. >> Yeah. You know, me and, you know, my wife, we've been looking at our entire financial picture, and so we're going to kind of consolidate some stuff, move things around. So, um, I probably will just cash out with you and move on. That's what I would do and not even worry about it. But if you feel like you can't do that and all of it, then I would charge him um what the average market rate is if you had an investment professional look at that, which is 1%.

>> Or just say, "Hey, I've got to I've got my wife and I, we decide we're going to work with an actual financial adviser at XYZ firm and we're going to move our money over there." >> Yep. >> And if he gets real upset, that's a good clue that this was a bad idea to begin with. >> Okay.

>> But I'm I'm glad you are at least up right now.

the money is crazy.

>> Usually this call ends with and all the money's gone and I can't get in touch with him. >> Now that would be weird. Would that not be crazy, Dan, if you went and told him that. >> It sounds like he's just he likes this stuff and he does DIY and he came up with some deal that was like, "All right, I'll make a little bit of money to manage this for you." I don't even know if this is legal. This sounds crazy.

>> I don't I think it's kind of set up like an investment club type thing, so it's mostly fine. Like I have input into it.

Uh but yeah. Well, why don't you just do it, Dan?

>> Well, I don't know exactly what it is.

Like, I don't know how to do whatever it is he's doing. He's not just putting it in a stock and leaving it. He's doing like some covered call type stuff, I think. >> Oh, boy.

Okay. There's there's some more risk here. I personally I would jump on ramiesolutions.com, click on Smartvestor Pro, and you'll sleep better at night knowing that all this money could disappear cuz you could lose it all and you have no stake in the game. You can't come after it.

and the fact you can't explain what he's doing.

>> So, you got to figure out what he's doing. So, >> okay. >> Um, just for your own sake, Dan. Don't give someone 10 grand and be like, "I don't really understand what he's doing." But he kind of knows what he's doing.

You don't know what he know. You don't even know if you know what he's doing. >> Did he make any promises? Was he like, "Hey, man.

I'll double your money." >> No. No. Nothing like that. I mean, he gave up like Yeah.

He just said it was doing pretty well for him and he'd been making I don't remember what the percentage was that he said at the time, but it was a decent amount. And I was like, "Okay, like I'm not going to put all my money there, but I can put I have some I can put there. That's fine." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

Hopefully we we talked you off the ledge to get out of this weird situation. And it's always a family member. That's the part that And I'm glad at least it wasn't a whole life insurance thing where he's like, "You said he's managing my money." And it's really just a life insurance salesperson who works at Northwestern who sucked you into this deal. >> Totally.

Yep. >> Yeah, it could be totally fine, Dan. We may be being dramatic. But from the relational aspect, I would not um Yeah, I just want to co-ingle money and family.

>> You just put it in an index fund and you'll probably be getting I would think the same returns is what he's doing, honestly. >> All right, Jack is in Lexington up next.

What's going on, Jack?

>> You there?

>> Jack, >> we were so close to talking to Jack. All right. All right. >> It was a good effort. Let's go to Joe in Raleigh instead. What's going on, Joe?

>> Hey guys, how are you doing? >> Good. How can we help?

>> I have a quick well kind of quick question. Um, first of all, thanks for taking the call. I just graduated school. I'm from Indiana, moved down to North Carolina. Um, I have about 65,000

in student debt. I got my masters, my NBA. Um, and then I have about 7,000 in

a car. Um, my work actually kind of we have car allowance that I kind of gets paid for. Um, but I'm getting married in two months and my fiance uh we're very

blessed. She has had money put aside for her. Um, it's about $120,000

and it's going to be our money. We're going to combine our finances. Um, we've talked about what to best do with that money as soon as we get married and and combine our finances. Um, part of me thinks yes, I should just we should just use that money and wipe out all the debt uh that would now be ours once we're married. Um, but also being a good man I

am, I feel like I don't want to just take her money and do that, but it will become our money if that makes sense.

>> Um, and >> yeah, we could use it on I could use some of it and then pay the rest off on my own. Um, but I I feel like you guys would probably just say just use it. Um, but it's been set aside for her for a while. her dad and grandparents um blessed her with that. Uh so yeah, curious to hear what you guys think.

>> Absolutely. Use it and set yourself up.

I mean, this money was created for, you know, for her to get a leg up in her financial future and now she's got you.

It's a wealth multiplier. So, yes, it feels like you're taking a step back temporarily and it stinks cuz you're like, man, this was I mean, half her money is gone now that was set aside for her, but you're just setting yourselves up. This is a great foundation to >> to go off of. So, absolutely, I would do it. And you would do the same if if she was in your shoes. And so it is your money, y'all's money, our money.

>> And you're not using all of it. I mean, you're using a good bit of it.

>> I was going to say, yeah, 48,000 left.

>> Um, which could be the, you know, starter or the the fully funded emergency fund, right? Part of that could be there and then some of it for a down payment for a home. And you guys keep moving along. So, the goal is to get to wealth as quick as possible. And getting debt out of the picture helps you get there fast.

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Spencer is in Hollywood, Florida. Up next, Spencer, welcome to the Ramsey Show. >> Hello. Thanks for having me.

>> Sure. How can Rachel and I help?

Oh, I was just calling because um me and my fiance um I'm age 25, but me and my

fiance are looking to get married in August, but I have like a dilemma with

her and her mom. Her mom wants to stay with us, but her and her mom doesn't have a good like relationship really that's happening. And we're kind of like

in between of what we should do. like she doesn't want to abandon her mom and like leave her because she's a single mom with two other little sisters and we're just having that I guess you could say that guilt of not bringing her along with us.

>> Okay. So, the mother-in-law is asking to

move in with you all once you get married. >> Yes, that's correct. >> Okay. >> And she has two other daughters.

>> Yes. And the thing is they she has um

her aunt that lives in Jacksonville.

She's in the Navy, but that's not really like I guess you could say a designated area she wants to live at.

>> Okay. Why does she need her oldest daughter? Um is it financial? Is it that

she helps take care of the two little ones? Like what is her primary motivation to live with you all? I think it's the combination of all the things you said plus more I guess for like I guess you could say more comfortability and she she really she really takes on

like all the responsibilities when I'm thinking about it. >> Your wife does.

>> Yes, correct. Mom and

>> I guess that that's like a I guess if she leaves that's like I guess you know a gap that she has to um fill as a single mom. And then what's the relational side? You said there's a bad relationship. Who's it between?

>> Well, when I say like bad relationship, it's like I guess like you could say like hot and cold. Like um it'd be like I guess you could say one day like they're getting along and then next day just I guess >> you're bringing some drama into the house by inviting her in is what you're saying. >> Yeah. And I guess like my standpoint, I'm like in the middle of it.

to Jacksonville is not a bad idea but at the same time I I feel like cuz you know I I don't I never live with her mom so I'm saying like maybe it won't be a bad idea if she comes with us for a little bit but >> the little bit turns into a long bit and the long bit turns into well this is where we live now and it's a generational house and that's fine if everybody agrees to it but it sounds like you and your fiance are both like this is not it.

>> Yeah. I mean I guess with me I don't mind but for her you know she she's the one that >> Spencer You don't mind? You really don't mind. Your mother-in-law you guys opening the fridge together and the two little kids running around with your new wife. You don't mind? Oh, well,

not really when you say it like that, but >> there we go. Yeah, >> it's okay to admit you do not want this.

It doesn't mean you're a bad person. Doesn't mean you don't love her. But there's a reason people get married. The old leave and cleave. There's a sense of independence that we're creating a new life for us together, not dragging everyone along with us and funding their life as well. >> Yeah. and the and the guilt trips your mother-in-law will give to her daughter because it sounds like the imshment of their relationship is super deep and there's not clear boundaries and your

your fiance has basically become in a way another parent to your mom to her mom you know what I mean like it's like the roles have flipped and that's not >> not healthy >> it's not yeah it's not the way the progression is supposed to be and I know life isn't perfect and there's messiness and things happen absolutely and I'm Not saying you abandon her mom or anything, but it is not wrong for you both to say,

"Hi, we are both in our mid20s. We're going to choose to start a life together, choose to start our own nuclear family, and we're choosing to do

life together. And now I'm leaving the home mom." And that's not that's not crazy, right? and she may have a hard situation and you guys can choose how much you want to help in that if you want to, but there's no um there's no

responsibility there. She's the daughter, right? Her mom is in charge of

her own life. And so when she depends and is so en and is so dependent and codependent on her daughter, that's not good. And so if your fiance decides,

"Yes, I do not I don't want my mom moving in with us," I think is not only the a wise move, but it's going to be a really hard conversation. Cuz when you put boundaries up with someone who's not used to boundaries or new boundaries, >> it's going to piss her off. Like it's going to be really hard. It's be really hurtful.

And she can do it in a really kind way, but she can't control how her mom's going to respond. But that is going to be messy messy. But that doesn't mean just cuz it's hard doesn't mean you it's not right. And this needs to be between her and her mom >> so that you don't need this triangulation where now it's like you're in the middle going, "Uh, what do you want to do?" You be the tiebreaker.

You don't want that now. You support your wife >> in the setting up the boundaries, but you don't need to get in the middle of it either. >> Correct. Correct.

Yeah. That's why I I just listen to what she tells me and I give like my advice to her, but I stay out the mix, you know, and when I come over, it's like that's nothing. >> Can I be honest, Spencer? I think she wants you to take a stand.

>> Yeah. >> She wants you to bow up and say, "You know what? This isn't okay and I support you in you stopping this before it gets out of hand." And then go, "Hey, we're not going to leave you on the street. We want to come up with a plan to make sure that you're covered, that the kids are okay, but that doesn't mean you're going to move in with us.

There's other options, right? If you guys weren't getting married, what would she do?" >> Yeah. And so I guess the plan was she's supposed to um move to Jacksonville with her older sister. >> I guess that's the plan.

>> It's great. >> Yeah. >> Keep it. Keep the plan.

>> It's great plan. Love that plan. >> We love the plan. >> You should be so supportive of that plan.

>> You should cover the moving costs for her to get to Jacksonville.

>> You see where we're going with this?

>> Yes. >> I need you to steer the >> What's your hesitation, Spencer? What's causing you to not just be like, "Yes, absolutely." >> Um, well, I mean, I guess the only hesitation is really um is I guess what

she tells me she I guess it's always like mixed emotions, I guess you could say. Like >> that's fair. >> One one day is something different and the next day is something else. One day it's like you saying like, you know, I feel bad for my mom. she did stuff for me and like you know like okay what if

they had like the idea what if we did get a house and she came but then it's idea then I would say oh about like okay

one month one year um turns into many

years and that's not something you want >> and is she working full-time >> yes >> okay >> I think and I think her mom just got out of actually um surgery knee surgery so

she's been out of work. Well, she still has her job, but she's I've been out of work for about a month now.

>> Okay. >> So, >> yeah. And you guys can be helpful, right? We're not saying you just like abandon a relationship by any means, but

co-mingling your whole lives together, that's a that's a totally different step. And she doesn't need to feel guilt about her mom taking care of her. That's why you choose to be a mom. You take care of your kids. Like, that's what you do. They don't owe they're not indebted to you because you took care of your kids. >> Yeah. That's selfish to I'm going to have a kid so that they can take care of me >> in my old age of 42. How old is she?

>> Um at least in her 40s.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. She's not elderly. If this was someone who's like, "Hey, they need care." This is different. This is a barely a middle-aged woman who can work full-time. And yes, it's a hard life to be a single mom with two young kids, but it's not impossible. We hear calls all the time. And so, she needs to figure out how to be independent because that's what's actually best for her. Yes.

>> Okay. >> So, you're actually doing this out of love, not out of spite. And I think you need to convince yourself of that.

>> Spencer, you need to take an energy a five five hour energy shot before you >> boom, get a little get a little aggressive in there. You know, >> sometimes I'll slap myself in the face just to wake up and go, "All right, get in the game, bud. Let's do this.

>> You got this, Spencer." >> Oh, well, I'm I'm hoping the best for you guys in setting up this boundary conversation. >> Call us back if you need us, Spencer.

and call us back. If you do let her move in and then it's 2 years later and you can't get her out and she's not paying any of the bills and it's chaos in your house, we'll also try to help you then.

>> We will. >> It's just going to be less fun. >> We'll always >> you try to This is the preventative medicine >> versus the emergency surgery of we need to evict my mother-in-law and two siblings. >> I know, right?

Right. >> That's a nightmare scenario. And what if you guys want to move? And she's like, "Well, no, we need to stay here.

My job is here. I can't afford." So, you guys are really locking yourselves in with some handcuffs if you do this. On top of the drama and the stress, I wouldn't be doing that as a newlywed couple. If you've been married 30 years and she's elderly and needs care and you decide to take her in, that's different.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by bestselling author Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Mike is in Philadelphia up next. What's going on, Mike? How can we help today?

>> How are you? >> We're doing great. What a hail you >> good. So, all right. So, I have been

pulling my hair out past couple days about a new truck. >> That's how Dave Ramsey ended up like that, man. Be careful. >> Uh, pull that hair out. Doesn't come back. >> Just real stress. >> I'm clo I'm close to it. I'm I'm fully

gray, you know. I I used to have a nice base of uh brown going. Now I'm all grave about it. So >> that's life. >> Um, listen, my car I've had I've had it

on, you know, on the road for years now without uh a car payment. I love it. Um, I'm the 1% of the world who doesn't have a car payment, I like to say. And now, unfortunately, the car is on the lift at my buddy shop on life support. Um,

>> was this a big surprise or was it like Yeah, it kind of was getting there.

>> No, wasn't a surprise.

it. Um, I think this thing was coming.

U, but I was in denial. So, you know,

Infiniti with uh 250 something on it.

Uh, I get oil changes left and right, premium gas, but I take care of it. And I was really hoping to squeeze just a couple of more, you know, miles out of this thing uh before I had to make the jump to a new car. But, of course, here

we are. You know, life life springs are here. So, I have one of two ways to go.

I spent all day yesterday on the Toyota Tundra lot looking at uh the Tundras and seeing how ridiculously expensive they are versus going to my buddy's shop right now, throwing the whole tax return nut on the repairs and driving off and

just hoping to squeeze just a couple more miles out of Old Barry is his name.

>> Old Barry. >> So, Old Barry.

>> Oh, man. He's been good. Berries are always good. >> Barry's been >> Yeah, >> Barry has been fantastic to me and I think he's still got some life left.

Although the friends and family are like, "Listen, bro." >> Well, we don't listen to them. We don't need to listen to them. Okay. So, um Mike, how much money do you have to buy a Tundra?

>> So, I have I would say about six saved

up,000.

Planning on Yes, correct. I'm planning on throwing 35 down on it.

3500.

>> That's correct. >> Down. I thought I thought we were an anti-payment. >> Thought we were a 1enter of >> The word down is in our voc vocabulary.

>> Uh >> oh. >> I know. I know.

>> I think Barry's going to feel disappointed in you, Mike.

>> What's the repair cost? >> Barry is so Barry all in right now is uh

2,300. And then now I just got surprised with a new part plus 800. So, whatever that is, >> 3,100. Okay.

>> Okay. >> So, what's the car worth after you do all this?

>> Listen, we're at 20 250 something,000

miles. I don't know. I don't know.

>> I mean, is it worth what kind of car is Barry?

>> It's a 2010 Infiniti M35.

>> Okay. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Um, Mike, do you listen to the show?

>> Do you do you um Yeah. Yeah. Do you listen to the Ramsey show a lot?

>> No. No. I actually just started following um the whole group pretty recently. I think at the top at the end of the year, give or take.

>> You were the 1% without a car payment before. You know, >> because you Well, you called a show that helps people get out of debt, not into debt.

>> Trust me, I'm aware. And that's, you know, but I I have heard the rare stories where, you know, they're like, "Yeah, sure. Why not? You, you know, you have this, this, and that going on. Why not? >> Oh, we Yes, we do tell people to buy cars. Yes. Um, new cars when they have

the the money to buy them. So, people will call in and they're like, "Listen, I got >> 600 grand in a high yield savings account and I want a new Tundra." Then we'd be like, "Mike, get you a new Tundra. If you have a net worth over a million dollars, go buy a nice car."

Mike, you're you're kind of broke, you know? >> Can I be honest, Mike? You got six grand to your name. You and Barry in six grand. You don't need to be walking around on a Tundra lot, Mike.

>> Yeah. >> You'll be a Tundra guy one day. But >> right now, it's Champagne Taste on a beer budget, my friend. >> Yeah. No, we can't. No, no, no. Do you know how much a Tundra You know how much a payment's going to be, Mike? I bet I bet it's what I bet it's what, 900.

Close to a great,000.

>> 3500 down is a drop in the bucket for a brand new Tundra. >> Do your Do your math. Let's Let's Mike is new. So, show >> You want like a car loan payment calculator? >> Yes. So, listen, Mike. This is what your car payment would cost you as Barry's sitting there on life support, but he's got another he's got another life. >> Okay. What's the price of the car? >> How much would a new Tundra be?

>> I know you know. I believe.

>> Well, we don't need that. Just say like just say >> I do need to know the loan. I was going to do investment if he if he invested.

Sorry, George. >> She's just yelling at me over here.

Mike, give me a break. >> Will you pull up the investment calculator? >> Oh, got it. Okay, I see where you're going with this. >> That's where I'm going. So Mike, if you went and got a new Tundra, okay, and you were like everyone else in the world and you put away how much do you think a payment is? Probably >> Can we call it 900? >> 1100. How much you think? >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's Let's call Yeah, let's call it about 9. 950 is >> All right. 950. How old are you?

>> How old are you, Mike?

>> Uh 36. >> 36. >> 36. Let's go to 62.

>> So let's say you're like everyone else, Mike. You go, you get this new Tundra and you you pay a car payment and you do it over the next, you know, five years, then you're done with it. the Tundra is five years old, you're done with the payments, but you're like, you know, I want the new Tundra.

I want the 2030 Tundra. So then you go get a new one and you stay in a cycle of car payments because that's what ends up happening. So if you if you paid a car payment every month now until you're 62, that's your life. Versus if you keep Barry alive, you start saving up and you pay cash for your cars and you invested a car payment, you paid yourself that car payment, how much money would he have at 62? >> At 62, you'd have $1.4 $4 million. Of

that, you only put in less than 300 grand. Compound growth did the heavy lifting.

>> Mhm. >> So, >> or you could spend 50 grand on a car that was worth 40 that's now worth 16

>> and be paying payments >> six years later.

>> Correct. Now, let me ask you this. Uh, you know, the option to of lease to buy, you know, brings that >> Oh, no. That's even worse, Mike. Who sold you on that idea? The guy at the dealership? >> The Tundra guy.

just wondering. Right. Right. Right. You know, I I had a feeling. So, but I figured Listen, it's it's worth a shot to call in and just see what you know, I

I know. And especially me, like I've been paying my paying my debt down like crazy. >> How much debt do you have? >> And I'm I'm almost getting ready to do that debt. Uh debt scream. Okay.

Don't ruin this moment. >> Going in the right direction. Keep moving, Mike. Keep >> Couldn't come at a worse time. >> One foot in front of the But you know what, Mike? You have the money. You have the six grand, so you're able to fix Barry. >> Cover the repair. You still got three grand. Then then how much could you save up every month once you're completely debtree? How much could you save in a car fund?

>> Well, uh, let's see. Could I ask through So, you know, my emergency fund is back up after this payment. The emergency, uh, fund is back up and replenished. Um, >> yep. >> I mean, I could >> Could you put away a,000 bucks a month?

2,000 bucks a month? What are we talking? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, cuz I don't have a I don't have rent or a mortgage.

>> And what's your income? >> So, that's >> uh 85. >> You make 85 grand a year. So, you could buy up to a $40,000 car if that was your only thing with wheels and motors on cash. >> With cash. >> And you just told me you could save two grand a month. >> That's 24 grand a year.

>> Yeah. At the end of Yeah. Think about it. In one year, you could have a $24,000 car.

>> And if I were you, Mike, I'd go find a $24,000 Tundra a year from now that's used that someone else said, "I'm done with. I want the fancier, newer one." >> 100%. That's the right way to go if you want to build wealth, Mike. But if you want to look good and feel good for just 3 seconds, you go get that new car with a big old payment.

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Shantel is in Sarasota, Florida. Up next. Welcome to the show, Shantel. How can we help?

>> Hey, so my question is, I am a new mom

and I had a baby about seven weeks ago.

>> And my question is, thank you. Uh my

question is does it make financial sense at this point um really strongly considering transitioning from full-time

working relatively well-paying medical

job to a stay-at-home mom with losing

all benefits and all those kinds of things from my current employer. Also,

while considering my husband's um

employment kind of decreasing grossly year over year, um I'm just kind of lost at what to do at this point. >> What does he do?

>> Uh medical sales >> and the sales just aren't coming through.

>> Well, it's a very seasonal area where we live in in Florida. So um you know most

of the year you know relatively busy but

in the summer months definitely drops off quite a bit. Um so kind of over the

last two years kind of bring home has been decreasing just based on volume

>> overall.

>> Okay. What was what was he making and what is he making now?

>> Um I would say the range between 4 and 600,000. >> Oh wow. That's a healthy Yeah, we're a

little on the lower end. Yeah, a little on the lower end. Kind of on the trajectory for this year.

>> Okay. Does he see volume picking up next year to get back to that half a million or 600?

>> Um, probably not until 2027. Um, when

more hospitals kind of open.

>> So, next year though. Next year.

>> Yeah, probably in the latter half of next year, I would say. >> Yeah. Does your lifestyle support you guys living on $400,000 a year?

>> Um, I mean, we he has two kids from a

previous marriage, so there's three kids total now. Um, and I have been the one

carrying like the health insurance and all of those kinds of things up to this point. Um, >> his company doesn't provide that. That's not a benefit.

Uh, no. Because he's an independent contractor um and a Navy veteran. So, he

gets all his um care through the VA.

>> Okay. And family is not included in that? >> No, it's not. >> Okay. >> Do you actually know your total household expenses in a given month?

>> Um, it is mortgage is probably 2100ish in

that range and we owe maybe about 240 on a house. >> Okay. Um, you know, then just like your regular electric >> would you say you got to spend $10,000 a month to keep the household running?

>> Um, between all of the things that's

probably generous. >> Is that child support included?

>> There's no child support. >> Okay. Well, I'm I'm doing math here going 10 grand a month is 120 grand a year in take-home pay. So even if he made $250,000, you'd still be able to cover all of your household bills easily on his income alone.

>> Yeah. >> Now, the part to factor in is getting market marketplace uh health insurance, which you can check out our friends at healthrustfinancial at rysolutions.com and they can search for you to find out what it's going to really cost. Is it might be 3,000 a month. You got to budget for to cover health insurance for now. >> But I think you guys can afford that.

But even if your bills are 13 grand, if you're making $400,000 in a bad year, you're going to be okay.

>> Yeah. I mean, and I think the biggest thing for me is transitioning from my

contribution to all of that, which last year I brought in about 250

um to going from all of that to zero.

Um, now is that 250?

>> It feels like, >> you know, like I'm not doing my part, you know, as a >> partner. The hardest part about staying home, Shantel, is disassociating your work identity from your human identity as a mom. And that part is legitimately hard because this is all you've known. You've worked really hard to build this career, haven't you?

>> Yeah. So, yeah. Invested all this, you know, master's degree for the last 13 years. Been working my butt off.

>> Yeah. And it got you here. It got you to an amazing life. And it's I think what you're gonna have to do is grieve that over time and go, "Man, I worked really hard for this." And it's not the right next thing for me, >> right? >> You have this new baby now. And so that's your new thing that you were contributing to as well as the household. And that I think that has so much nobility and merit to it, even if it doesn't come with a big paycheck.

>> 100%. And I say that as someone who's my wife stays at home and had an amazing nine-year career here at Ramsey, was at the top of her game and dropped it all to be at home and it was a really hard decision for her emotionally, but it wasn't hard financially because we set ourselves up and you guys have done the same with this amazing income you have.

>> Yeah. Um I think the the other portion of that is you know I have been working

towards you know obviously investing in retirement 401k Roth IRA trying to set

ourselves up you know for some point that we be able to transition. So you know I'm going to lose all of that too as far as like corporate contribution.

>> Sure. But you'll roll over any retirement stuff you have. You can roll that over to an IRA. It'll continue to grow >> and you can do a spousal >> spousal >> Roth IRA. You guys may have to do the back door considering how much you make.

I do have one question, Shantel, and then I want to get back to what you were saying. Is the 250 you're contributing part of the 400 or he's making 400?

>> He's making 400. >> Okay, good. Okay. I wanted to make sure our math was right. Okay, perfect.

>> Yeah, you guys are if you don't build wealth making $400,000 a year, you've you really screwed it up. >> You don't have a financial problem until you have an identity problem is what it is. And the hard thing is is so much of the applause of our world today, the scorecard at which we place our worth

>> is our income.

>> Um what people see, success, positions,

all of that is what is applauded in our world today, which is really sad because a lot of that ends up being empty. Now, if you can flip that and say, "Hey, that is not who I am. this is a skill set

that you know was God-given and I've worked hard at it and that's a great part of me but that is not that's not who I am. It's maybe a part of me but it's not my full identity. And so taking

that apart I think is is so important and for you and your husband to sit down and I would love him to affirm this in you that this is our household income.

Like yes, you are contributing to it, but regardless of who makes the money when it hits that checking account, we are we are in charge of it together.

Like you have as much say still into the money even if you're not bringing it in.

That's a healthy perspective and it's going to be hard for you because you are very intelligent. You're very hardworking. And I'll be honest, too. I mean, I felt this way when I went on maternity leave.

Even you might go a little stir crazy. You might be like, "Oh my gosh, I've been making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for so long or I'm nursing or I'm, you know, washing burp, you know, burp cloths constantly in swaddle blankets." Like it it there's a monotony to a new world that you've entered into. And so if you have to find a little outlet to kind of like find that part of you that is so gifted, that that's great, too. But honestly, embracing the season you're in, it's going to go so fast.

And I know everyone says that, and I even hate to say it cuz I rolled my eyes every time people said it, but it does.

flies. It flies. And so your contribution, if you're wanting to stay home and that's where you feel like your your spirit, your soul is pulling you, listen to that. Listen to that. Okay.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz it is only so little for so long.

>> Yes. And it's going to be exhausting.

>> You can get a job again one day if you miss it. That's the good news. You're so terrible. >> And you're going to be tired. Like it's a different kind of tired. I think it's more tiring to 100%. I could not >> versus functioning with adults, you know, and having adult conversation like we are now. Um so yeah, you'll miss some elements of of your work life for sure, but if there's ways you can still have yourself fulfilled in those things, um whatever that looks like is great, too.

So, um man, but I I would I would I

would say listen to your heart and be home with that baby if that's where you're being pulled. >> I much appreciate y'all's help.

>> Yep. Absolutely. >> Good luck with the transition.

Congratulations. I know seven weeks in.

I'm surprised you're able to call in coherently. >> Oh man, >> that's the most impressive part. >> Exhausting. So tiring.

>> So tiring. >> Those baby years. They're beautiful, but

>> they're exhausting.

>> I I'm in it. I got an infant now. I got a toddler. And I get home and I'm like, I thought I was at work.

Now I'm at work. >> That was a joy ride compared to what's going on over here. But >> and I know parents are all different seasons, but it does get better and better. >> I know.

That's another one of those I roll my eyes, but Right now I'm like it's perfect for us. Like a 5 to 11year-old I'm like stay right here y'all. It's so fun. >> Don't grow.

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may not be available in all states.

>> Today's question comes from Toby in Missouri. I'm 25 years old and self-employed with an average salary of $100,000 a year. I have a net worth of

$400,000 and my fiance will be out of school and getting a job within a year starting out at $95,000 a year. I have saved 200,000 to put down on a house for a down payment. Should I buy my dream home for $450,000 in the best neighborhood in town or a house that costs $200,000 in an okay neighborhood knowing that we want to move in a neighbor move into another neighborhood in the next couple of years? We have no student loans or car payments and we'll be getting married later this year.

>> Oo. Okay. A lot of variables here. This like a little riddle. A lot of timing.

>> I'm going big. >> Yeah. Well, I'm wondering, can you wait to buy the house until you're married?

Oh, for sure. >> Why the urgency right now to get the >> I would get the $450,000 house, but I would wait until you're married.

>> Yep. >> Because then you know that you know that you know both incomes are there cuz what if, >> god forbid, the maybe the wedding gets pushed and you're stuck with a mortgage payment that's a little tight for your $100,000 income, which is amazing, but you take on a $250,000 mortgage. I don't know what the payment's going to be compared to your take-home pay. >> That's right. Yes. I would assume that after you get married, you guys will be making 200,000. you put and maybe rent

for one year, right, before you before you jump into the new neighborhood >> and save an extra 507500, right, to add

to the down payment. >> And if you put 250 300 down on a 450

>> Oh my goodness. Well, the options you have will be amazing. You'll pay off the mortgage fast. And then fast forward, let's say your fiance wants to stay home one day and we just took a call about that.

>> Guess what? It's a no-brainer. You're like, "Yeah, our mortgage is a,000 bucks a month or it's paid off. No brainer to do this." Or you jump in right now with that mortgage that's a fixed payment and it gets tight if she decides to stay home.

That's the kind of stuff you need to think about with a home. It's a long-term decision. >> So, I would wait.

>> That's it's a great question. He's in a good place. >> Yes.

>> Y >> uh similar to the stock market because in a given year the home price could actually dip for a little bit and so I think you're doing it the right way Toby. I would just be patient and wait till you're married to uh pull the trigger on the home. That's awesome. All right, Patrick is down the street here in Nashville, Tennessee. What's going on, Patrick?

>> Hey, how are y'all doing today?

>> Great. How can we help?

>> Great. So, I'm 26 years old and I just landed a job straight out of college with my degree. I make about $73,000 a

year. I don't have any credit card debt.

I do owe on a vehicle and I've got about

63ish $4,000 saved in a CD account and

in savings. Okay. And my CD account is about to renew here in the next month.

And I'm really just wanting to know, is there somewhere else I can put my money to really let it grow? And then how can I start to utilize these savings for the

future? >> Great questions. You're doing really good at at 26. What What is left on your debt? What's the balance?

>> So, I only owe 25 just shy of $26,000 on

a vehicle. Um, >> that's a lot of money where I came from.

>> It is. It is. And I'm more than willing to pay it off and I'm comfortable paying it off right here, right now. And >> do it. do it while you're on the phone with us. Prove it.

>> I've I've been I've been putting it in the works, but I just want to know, you know, I've got a considerable amount of money left over and I just really want to be able to put it to work, especially since the job I'm in is a good salary

and it's only going to increase throughout the years. >> Great. Are you doing any investing right now through a retirement plan?

>> I'm not and I want to start.

>> Okay. So, let me run you through some napkin math here to help you. You got 63 in CD and savings. I would not renew

that CD. I would get out of that and just park it in high yield savings. You're going to use 26 of that to pay off your car loan, right?

>> Yes. >> So, that brings you down to >> 37,000. Now, we need an emergency fund.

Unless you have other savings outside of this, but you need 3 to six months of expenses saved up in an emergency fund.

You can park that in the high yield savings. How much would that be for you?

Um, I think for 6 months it' probably be about 24,000, >> right? So, we're going to take 24 out of the 37, which leaves you with 13,000.

That's really the number we're working with. And now, think about it. You got an amazing financial foundation. No payments, 6 months of expenses saved up,

13 grand to now invest. And what I would do first is just fund a Roth IRA for the year.

That's 7,500 bucks right there.

Are you tracking with me on what that is?

>> Uh, you know, I'm new. I've I've heard Roth IRA, but I'm not going to lie, I'm not familiar with it. >> No, it's all good. I'll give you a quick explainer.

So, an IRA is just an individual retirement arrangement. It's just an account that's outside of an employer where you can invest money with some tax advantages. And so, there's traditional IRA, which means you're going to get uh you're going to get some tax benefit now, but you'll pay taxes later when you withdraw it >> on the on the growth.

I mean, you're a young guy, that's some amazing opportunity. So funding that for the year, the maximum is 7500 for 2026.

>> So you can open up a Roth IRA, fund 7,500, and you'll still have some money left over, which is incredible. And then beyond that, you got to think about what are my future financial goals? Do I need to upgrade the car? Do I need to save up

for a home down payment? And so you want to think about short-term goals, high yield savings, long-term goals, let's invest it. >> Yeah. And Patrick, at that point, you know, we have the we have what's called the seven baby steps.

So it's a $1,000 emergency fund. Get completely debtree, everything but the house, and then a three to six month emergency fund. So you've done all of that because of the savings that you've done so well stocking stockpiling that cash. And then baby steps four, five, and six is what you're going to move forward with.

And baby step four is funding 15% of your income into retirement. So that Roth IRA would be included in that 15%.

now on, Patrick, you need to be investing 15% of your income into retirement. So that's Roth >> about $11,000 for you.

>> Yep. $11,000 a year. Okay. Needs to be going in an investment. So Roth IRA would be included in that. Does your employer have a 401k?

Um I'm still fairly new and I'm figing all those numbers out. I do know that we have a pension after if your age and your years serve equal a certain amount that's guaranteed. >> So if there is an option for any kind of

retirement within your company then you know that would be great and any kind of investment. So >> and sometimes there's a match as well to where they go hey if you put in 3% we're going to also match 3%. So you doubled your money 100% return just like that.

So that's the first place to go. And then beyond that, like I talked about the Roth options, that's after tax money, but it grows and you can withdraw it without taxes again. And then beyond that, if you run out, you can go to traditional options as well. And I'll walk you through this, Patrick, in my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

I'll send you a copy. There's a chapter called Wealth is Patience. And you, my friend, have all the time in the world to be patient. You're a young man who's doing great.

>> Yeah, you're you're on the right track, Patrick. So just remember, stay out of debt.

Percentage- wise, you're getting what? What do you think of CDs right now? Probably one, two, three. >> Upwards close to four, but not quite.

>> Okay. Better than I was thinking. Um, but yeah, you're going to get better returns investing your money in the market. But again, doing it doing it wisely. And George in his book will walk you step by step by that. So, make sure to read that um when that comes to you.

Patrick, >> can we do some quid proquo? Patrick, can you promise me you'll pay off the car if I send you the book?

>> Absolutely. I'm I'm planning to do it and I knew that was going to be the first thing they were going to tell me.

>> Well, dude, think how much is the payment on that thing? What's the car payment? >> It's about 513.

>> Oh, you just became $6,000 a year richer. You just got a raise just like that, Patrick. >> Man, I'm I'm happy for you. Hang on the line. We'll send you a copy of Breaking Free from Broke. Enjoy.

Rachel, a key theme on the show here is getting control of your money takes intentionality. And the application of that requires a budget. There's just no other way to do it if you're not paying attention to your money. And so we created an app for that called Every Dollar so that you can actually take control of it, find the extra money, use that margin to help you build wealth and get out of debt.

And the newest version of Every Dollar builds you a personalized plan to beat debt and build wealth. The Ramsay plan is baked in. In just 15 minutes, you'll find thousands in hidden margin. You'll feel like you got a raise.

So don't live normal when you can live like no one else. Go start every dollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. >> You know what I was just doing during the break? >> What are you budgeting?

Tracking your transaction. >> Transactions.

>> She practices what she really do. Yes.

>> How did her feel? >> It feels so good. >> You got a little dopamine hit. >> Well, the Costco one hit and that was >> Oh, that one never feels good. That was not like fun, but it's in the budget, so

doesn't feel good. >> Costco, they'll science will study Costco for years to come as to how they convinced everyone to spend hundreds while somehow thinking they saved money.

>> I know. And my kids get locked in on certain snacks, like a there's like a little protein drink.

>> It's has like a little monkey on the front. >> They're so expensive, but they're $9 off. So, I was like, you know, >> I thought about that. My daughter gets her little like pouches, you know? Yeah.

And my wife likes the crunchy like clean ones. >> Oh, yes. They're like They're like $2 a pouch. So, when she doesn't finish one, I'm like, "You're going to finish that pouch." Dad paid good money for that pouch. >> We're going to put that in the refrigerator and you're going to reuse that pouch. I know. I know.

>> That's life. All right. John is in V Virginia Beach up next. What's going on, John? How can we help today?

>> All right. Well, so my wife and I have just finished paying off all of our credit cards, which is an excellent feeling. >> Nice. Good job.

>> We are moving on to our bigger debts.

Next, we have a student loan, um, a heliloc, and we also have a car note that we're paying off. My question is, the student loan is the next largest one, and it's her student loan is through the government, and it's in forbearance right now until I think 2028. So, there's no minimum payment that's required on it right now. Do I start paying on that since it's the next smallest one, or do I go to the next biggest one, which is the truck note, and like paying additional on it?

>> That's a great question. And so what's the total balance of the debts?

>> Um student loans right at 14,000. The truck is right around 20 and the HELOC's right around 47. >> Okay. What's the smallest student loan up next?

>> Um so her student loans got all consolidated into one um back under uh

the previous president's administration.

So it's all wrapped into one payment.

>> Okay. Well, here's the deal. Interest is

still acrewing in forbearance.

>> Sure. So even though they're like, "Hey, you don't have to make a payment." That balance is ballooning because you're not knocking down the principal at all. So I would absolutely treat it like any other debt and just attack that one first at 14 grand. How quickly can you knock that one out? >> Uh probably in about a year, maybe 16 months at most. >> Okay. So 12 months from now, you're moving on to the car loan, >> correct? >> All right. And then the helilocs next.

All right. You're on the path. Yeah, I would absolutely knock out that student loan. The the problem and the thing I hate about forbearance is it makes people think they are like I got some relief. Yes. >> And they look at the balance six months later and it's so much bigger than it was the last time they looked at it.

>> Yeah. And that was my concern. I mean thankfully they're they're low interest or like I think it's a 4 and a.5% interest which obviously is low but the interest is still acrewing and adding to the balance when I'm not making payments on it. So I just wanted to make sure that that was the right next move. And >> the interest could not be low enough unless it's gone. 0% with no payment is

the only one I'm okay with. So, I would knock it out just as aggressively as if it was 40% interest. That's the spirit that will get you out of this fast and not be a grueling, you know, four-year journey. So, can you knock the rest out in let's say under two years?

>> Uh, probably maybe a little over two at most, but I wouldn't I don't see why not. >> That's the spirit, John. We're done for you, man. >> Well done. And you got the credit cards out. That feels good. >> Those ones are real icky. >> Not fun. Uh hopefully you cut them up.

All right. Keegan is in Sou Falls, South Dakota up next. What's going on, Keegan?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's going on?

>> So, I am a full-time law student and I'm

living with my parents while I'm in school. They are supporting me, you know, providing me with food and housing. I'm going to graduate with no student debt and I'm wondering what I can do to pay my parents back once I graduate. >> Wow, that's amazing. First of all, way to go going to law school debtree. How did you do that by the way? Cuz we get a lot of calls of people saying it's impossible.

>> Well, you know, my wife and I are big fans of you guys, so we wanted to try and do this debtree. So, I studied hard for the LSAT, got a high score, and I managed to get a full scholarship. >> Whoa. >> Wow. Well done. So just be a boy genius like Keegan and uh you can avoid >> be as smart as Keegan and you can do it.

>> Yeah, that's incredible. Okay, so did your parents set up any arrangement with you? Did they talk about any financial aspect of you living with them and them covering food?

>> No, they are just doing this out of the kindness of their heart. They want to support me and they know that this is a goal of mine and so they have no expectation that I pay them back. But >> you just want >> I >> I just want to and I don't think they would take just a check from me to say thanks. So >> that's what I was going to say. You write dad a check, he's going to rip it up, I'm guessing. Right.

>> Yep. >> But will you still still feel like you did your part in attempting to pay them back?

>> I think that might ease some of my my burden. Yeah. >> Well, you know what? You're giving them the flex of saying, "Oh, yeah. My kid's a lawyer." That's what every parent wants, man. You're giving it to them.

The check can not touch that. They're just proud of you, aren't they?

>> They are. They're very proud. And I know they don't expect anything, but I thought maybe uh I take them on a vacation or something. But >> that's a fun idea. >> Yeah, I think that's great. >> Force them into an experience.

>> You know, sometimes it's hard, Keegan, even you know, as an adult to accept the

generosity of others.

>> It kind of puts you at a in a in a humble position. You know what I mean?

to have to yeah accept that and so there's something beautiful about that that your parents >> had the ability and have set you guys up and that you guys have been so smart. I mean it's unbelievable the decisions you guys have made. So yeah, I think there's for sure ways that you can be creative

and you know take them on a trip or you know whatever that looks like. I think that's great. >> Or if you like notice around the house man that that grill could use an upgrade once I graduate and I get a job. I'm just going to surprise him with a great grill, you know.

So, there's there's things you can still do to be generous. >> Yeah. And there's stuff like that, too, you know, depending on where they are financially, you know, that as you guys start to build wealth that, you know, it's a beautiful thing to be generous to people that don't expect it or don't feel entitled to it, you know, and so there that's part of living like no one else. The later you get to live and give like no one else.

And giving to your family is one of those things that you absolutely can do. So, um yeah, I'm all about that. I think that's great. I think it comes from a good place um in your heart that there's and there's no um you know weirdness of feeling like gosh I you know they're expecting this or they have to.

It really is just your you saying thank you to them and I think that's beautiful.

>> Thank you so much. >> Absolutely. Thank you for calling. I know. >> And I feel like paying it forward is one of the best things you can do. You do this for your family. You set them up so that no one in your family tree ever goes into debt. That's a pretty incredible legacy to leave that goes way beyond repaying them a unknown amount

like what does this really cost? I I'll write a check for five grand and call it good. >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> I don't think they're needing it or expecting it. It sounds like they're they're in a great spot financially.

Yes. >> So they're not, you know, put out by you staying there. But that's impressive.

The whole story just makes me go, that's how to do it. If there was ever a poster child of it can be done and that's how to do And he he said, "We've been following you guys a long time, and we just decided, I don't want to leave law school with debt." >> Yes. >> So, what did he do? He found a way. He worked his butt off to get a great LSAT score so that he got a full ride.

>> Yes. >> Is that difficult? Sure. Is he privileged? No. He just worked his butt off. He was smarter than you cuz he worked harder than you to be smarter than you. That's how it works.

>> I think I probably could work that hard and probably still wouldn't get >> I would love for Rachel I want Rachel and I to take the LSAT just to see who fails worse. We should just take the the SAT or the ACT again.

>> Yeah. Honestly, you could give me a common core math problem for a fifth grader and I'd fail it. >> Listen, it it is humbling doing homework with a with a fifth grader. You're like, "Oh, man.

>> Even solving for X at this point in my life would add some pretty." Yeah. When the fractions come in, you're like, "Oh man, I got to remember got to remember how to do this." >> It's crazy that we didn't end up using it.

Well, not that, but we use math every day on this show. We're sitting here >> basic math. >> Basically dividing by 12 all the time.

Divide it by 12. >> I've got an investment calculator at ramsolutions.com at the ready.

>> I know. >> So, take that. >> Oh, man. >> We need Dave back here with his financial calculator. The old school one at the desk. >> Oh, yeah. That just >> back to analog Dave. >> Let's go back. >> He's going to hold Keep that thing alive.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Ramsey personality Rachel Cruz and we're taking your calls at 888255225.

Michelle keeps us going in Phoenix.

What's going on, Michelle?

>> Hi there. Thank you for having me on the show. I'm I'm excited. >> Oh, we are too. Don't be nervous. Rachel will guide you through this.

>> Okay. >> I'm the anxious one.

>> Um, where do I start?

>> You tell me what what ails you right now. What's the main thing on your mind?

>> Oh my gosh. Well, my husband and I have made stupid decisions and we are I just

turned 58. My husband is going to be 57

in August. Um, how do we overcome our large debt plus our house and the bills that come with that, but we have debtized amount? >> If you just kind of parse out the consumer debt versus your mortgage debt, how much consumer debt do you have?

>> Oh gosh. Um, let's see. That's about 1080. 10,000. 20 40. Oh, almost 50,000.

About 48,000.

>> Okay. >> Roughly. >> And what's your household income?

>> Um, we have 98,800 before tax and

insurance. Oh, and also I have a a school I will have school debt because I'm going to school. I was dumb going to get my masters and I graduate in a month thinking it was going to help me and I should have done it when I was younger. So that's on top of the 48.2.

>> Yes. >> How much more?

>> I think. Well, to be honest, I was kind of confused. When I looked at the FAA, it looked like it was 18,000, but then when I looked at my school's website, it said 28,000.

>> Oh boy. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yep. >> All right. That puts us at a grand total of about $76,000

in consumer debt.

>> Making 98. Okay. At least now we have facts and figures. That's all we're trying to do right now is sort of get out of the emotion and overwhelm and just go, okay, what's actually the reality of our situation, >> right? >> So, break down the other 48,000 in debt.

>> Um, a credit card for 10,8 or about

10,790.

Um, personal line of credit about 11,560.

Air conditioner. So, we had to buy two air conditioning units for our house last year because they broke in the middle of the summer and we were at within didn't know what to do. So, we ended up having to get a loan for that and that's about $25,83.

>> Yeah. And then the school debt.

>> Are either of you able to increase your income in the foreseeable future?

>> To be honest, that's what I was hoping I would be able to do. And it to be I I

didn't have any luck. And it could be the way I interview. It could be my age.

you could be the everything wrapped into one. That's why I thought getting my masters, which is something I wanted to do years ago. Um, but I started and then

I stopped back in 21 when my mom got sick. So then I thought I'm going to finish it in hoping that would help me.

So we ended up getting jobs that are hard labor and for our age, I'm actually kind of, you know, I was kind of embarrassed that I had to go back to a hard labor job, but you got to do what you got to do to pay bills, you know.

But I have been there for two and a half years. So I was hoping to grow in that company since I've already been there.

>> Will the MBA help you? Will that give you a raise? >> Um, not necessarily. Not the job I'm in

right now, but I was hoping it would help me get promoted, but uh the job is kind of um it's kind of a different company how they promote within.

>> Well, if I were you, I'd be going, how can I use this MBA to double my salary so that I can get out of debt before I retire? That's really the goal now is can we get out of this thing in the next three, four, five years, maybe stack up retirement. Do you guys have anything in retirement? >> No.

Well, and that's the other night. It was one of the stupid things we did when we moved from Minnesota to Arizona. Um, we used my husband's retirement and pension at that time. Uh, and then we were pretty good, but then we were making dumb decisions.

>> What do you mean you used >> for the move? >> You cashed out? >> Well, we move Well, no. Well, we cashed it out, but we bought a place that was paid for.

And then we ended up selling it thinking that would be the way to go and it wasn't the way to go.

So, >> but now you have a mortgage.

>> And now we have a mortgage because we had to have a bigger house. It's just the whole thing. We had to have our daughters and grandbabies live with us.

It was kind of a >> Michelle, the key word in your life you need to get rid of is we had to.

>> That is what has caused you to be broke at every turn. We had to. We had to. We had to. >> Yeah. >> You have to retire with dignity. That's the only have to at this point. So everything else is out the window.

>> Yeah. Out of the 98 that you guys bring home a year, what per what what number do you bring home? When does what does he bring home? >> Um mine is 44,48.

I wrote it down before so I could be ready for the call. Um and then and then his is 54,392.

And of course it's all before tax and everything. >> Okay. And >> and we're not doing 401k.

>> Okay. Tell us about the house. How much do you owe on the house?

Um, what was it? 343,658.

>> You owe 340. And how much is it worth?

>> Um, maybe about 500,000.

>> Okay. >> What's the payment on that?

>> Yeah. 2270.

>> And what's your take-home pay every month? Is it close to like five or six grand? >> Uh, about that, I think, total together.

Um, because I think he brings after he pays the insurance. So six plus mine's like 5 to 1,100 per week maybe give or take. Yeah.

>> Do you still need this bigger house?

>> Not really. And I've told I've talked to my husband about that, but he's really set in his ways and hard to change, but maybe it will. >> And he does hard labor at 57.

>> Yeah, he Yeah, we work at the same same company. >> Well, he's going to be setting his ways until he realizes he can't keep this up for 10 years to climb out of this mess >> and then he's going to be forced to. So, if I'm in your shoes, truthfully, based on what you've told me, I would consider selling the house, clearing all of your debt. That way, your income can now be used to fund retirement, and you guys just rent for a while.

>> And if your income goes up and you can own a home again, that's great.

>> Okay.

>> But right now, you're stuck.

>> Yeah. You could clear 150 out of the home. Um, man, I don't know. There's a part of me, I don't know, George, that if you could go, I mean, and it's going to be a different type of lifestyle, Michelle. So, I just don't know if if how you guys would feel about this, >> but if you could find something, a $200,000 condo or 100 I mean, if you could get a one, I mean, I don't even know. >> Yeah. Downgrade and pay cash. >> Pay cash and then that frees up 2500 a

month that you guys could throw at this debt >> cuz that's almost half your take-home pay going out to this mortgage alone.

So, you're not going to be able to make head headway on your debt. And you guys need to start being creative because you're going to be working for another decade. And if you can't stay in this job, >> then you guys are going to have have to start getting creative and think through where else long term could we be to be making even more money if possible.

Obviously, I know that's ideal.

>> There is another thing too that we So, my mom just passed and we did get a little bit of inheritance from her. So, we ended up buying a condo and paid cash for it as an investment property. What?

>> Um, and >> you buried the lead, Michelle. Go live in that thing. Forget your renters.

Can you go live there?

>> I wouldn't want to, but I mean, you got to do what you got to do sometimes.

>> Yeah. You told me you're you're willing.

>> How much is How much is that worth?

>> Probably about 150.

>> So, either move into it or sell it >> and then you can maybe stay in this home. >> Yes. >> The mortgage is still too much for your take-home pay, so it doesn't solve that problem, but at least it clears your debt. >> True. >> Yeah. I would I'd sell the house and I

would go move in something smaller and I'd sell that investment property. Michelle, you guys have $78,000 in consumer debt and no retirement.

>> No, sell it, pay off this debt, invest the rest and be done. That's >> it's your choice. You can try to work until 70 and maybe get out of this thing and still have a mortgage or you can do it our way and find a path to freedom way sooner. That's what I would be doing if I was in your shoes. I ain't doing hard labor. Look at me.

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines out there, conflicting data, and it's hard to know what's really happening in the housing market. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices stayed steady last month at about $439,000.

The number of homes for sale hit a million for the third month in a row.

So, buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers face more competition. The average 15-year fixed rate dipped to uh 5.86% last

month. So, if you're debtree, you got a fully funded emergency fund, a solid down payment, now is still a great time to buy or sell your home. So, to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramiesolutions.com/market.

Or if you're listening on podcast or watching on YouTube, click the link in the show notes. Stephen is in Nashville up next. Stephen, welcome to the show.

>> Hi there. Thanks for taking the call.

>> Absolutely. What's going on?

>> Uh, so a few years ago, a friend of mine came to me and asked to start a business. It's a landscape service, you know, project based business. and um things have been going well. You know, we've been growing, making money, and then out of the blue said that, you know, he can't do doesn't want to continue the partnership anymore.

And we have an operating agreement. So, I said, "Okay, well, we'll go about it the way that the agreement says.

worth anything. It's only worth what we own." And I believe that's different based on, you know, the goodwill and the cash flow and and and the profit that we've made. And we've kind of reached a stalemate at this point. And I don't really know where to go from here as far as um how to kind of leverage the

situation to to kind of get this clean and over with. You know, I got a big >> So, does he not want to pay to get a valuation cuz he thinks it's worth nothing? Is that the deal? >> No, he doesn't want to pay for the company. and he kind of just wants to dissolve it and then start the exact same thing on his own. Uh, you know, the second that that's done. >> What does the valuation cost?

>> Uh, I mean 1,500 to 2500 depending on uh

>> and have you done that already? Have you gotten an evaluation? >> I've I've got an informal one and then I spoke with an SBA lender um that's a friend of mine and gave him our tax returns and said, "Hey, say I was trying to buy out my business partner. what would you guys approve, you know, on a loan because obviously they're they're not in the business of making bad deals and uh they said a valuation of around

775, you know, so making my 50% shares

anywhere from that 350 to 360 range.

>> Yeah, that's a big gap from it's worth nothing to it's worth 34 of a million dollar. >> Now, I would not go into debt to buy him out. If you wanted to continue this, you could do some sort of like profit >> share. Yeah. Sorry, I'm a little confused. Is he just wanting to leave?

He wants out and wants to start his own.

>> He wants me out. >> Oh, he wants you out. Oh, I'm sorry.

>> He basically wants to just leave. And I was like, well, just let him leave and you keep the whole business. >> Yeah. What does the operating agreement say if the business one of the partners want to get out?

>> It says obviously get a valuation done.

um you know then multiply that by your shares or 50/50 owners and then you can

either do it through an SBA or if the operating agreement says a 20% down and then four quarterly installments for 60 you know 60 quarters so basically 15 years which is kind of egregious I think and that puts me at risk in case you know he defaults um and I would you know that

whoever's on the other end of that uh I wouldn't imagine that that's Do you guys have any debt in the business currently?

>> Yeah. Uh like equipment and machine loans. Probably a little over,000. I think 120,000.

>> Well, I mean, if the agreement says you get a valuation, then I don't see how it's illegal for you to take that out of the business checking account and go get a valuation. What's stopping you from doing that? >> I don't That's not the That's not the issue. It's that whatever that valuation comes back as, he's going to say, "No,

it's not worth that. I'm not paying that. Um, why don't you just buy me out

and then I'll There's a two-year non-compete attached to our operating agreement." But, >> well, if it's worth nothing, then you don't have to buy him out.

>> Isn't that what he's saying? >> That's what I'm thinking. I don't understand. >> Let him let it be worth nothing and go, "All right, there's nothing to give you." So, >> and then he can leave and start his own thing, right?

>> Yes. Now, the other part that comes into it is I picked up my essentially my life and moved out of Nashville down to, you know, we're kind of in his home turf where he grew up. I'm from Ohio. Um,

football brought me down here and so I'm

in a area that really the only reason I moved down here was cuz we were running a business that was that was doing well and um so >> Well, are you capable of running the business on your own or hiring someone to help? >> Sure. Yeah, no doubt. I'm definitely capable, but if he's going to turn around and start another >> Well, where do you want to live, Stephen?

>> Uh about, you know, in the Nashville area. We're about an hour and some, you know, an hour and change.

>> So, you would rather live somewhere else. So, then why don't you go get new clients elsewhere?

>> I can do that. Um, obviously, you know,

selling the house that I live in now, I got my first child due in a month, not even a month, less than a month. Um, my wife's, you know, we do have health insurance through her job here. Uh, the logistics of it all are just not great to leave with no form of compensation or

buyout in in that case. Um,

>> I'm guessing nobody would actually buy your business.

>> I mean, no, probably they're not in a very desirable location. And >> is that what And that's his argument is that it's not worth >> Yeah. He says it's not worth. Obviously, if we sold it to an outside buyer, it would be tough for them to do that. Now, all the contacts that we've built in the last 3 years, if he is still going to continue, >> is he going to poach all the current clients?

>> He I mean, yeah. Essentially, yes. If we

were to divide ourselves right now and I start my own company and you start your own company, we're going to be competing, you know, >> for the same clients.

>> He's going, "Hey, I started my own thing. Come come over here. Sure.

>> Yeah. You you guys need to come to a consensus on what these next steps are.

Otherwise, this is going to be a blood bath.

>> Exactly.

>> Now, the debt part is the debt in >> Yep.

>> Uh it's an LLC, you know, so we're we each have 50% of it.

>> Okay. So, if he leaves the business, he's still liable for the debt.

>> Yes. And >> has he thought through that? >> Unless I were to say unless I were to

>> Well, no. He doesn't want to leave the business. He's not going to leave the business. He wants to get me out of the business. >> I thought he wants to start his own.

>> Yeah. And >> And you don't want to do this.

>> You don't want to do this anymore, right? >> I do, but I'm not I don't want to I'm not going to do it by myself down here where I'm >> And he can't afford to buy you out to do this solo. >> I mean, he could. >> He's saying that he though. Yeah.

>> That's what I'm so confused about.

>> Well, he wants to do solo. He's got a couple of options. Either you guys just dissolve the business. You start your own thing, he starts his.

Uh, you sell the assets, pay off the debt, and just say, "What a bad deal that was." You go your way, I go mine, and you got to outperform him in your new in your new gig. You know what I mean? To to get it competition-wise because you're not willing to move.

>> You're stuck regardless of the business.

So we're So you either are going to do this business or do a business like this

or you got to go find a different job or you go move >> and do this business if you feel like the competition is too much. >> I would move you know I would move if

you know we each took six figure salaries last year and essentially nothing's going to change for you know for my partner it whether we dissolve or he buys me out like he's still going to continue like like business as usual.

Well you >> and so without me in the picture there goes a six figure raise. So I'm figuring if I could be compensated somehow for you know giving you% of this company back. >> Yes. But Stephen that makes it doesn't make sense. If he wants out if he wants if he wants the business by himself then yes then he needs to write you a check.

I 100% agree. And if he's not willing to write you a check then you can say I'm not leaving the business. Then he has to decide he's out and he may go start his own thing and then yeah you got competition in the area but it is what it is. Mhm. >> So, >> yeah, but I still have the infrastructure and everything of our business. Correct. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you got to you got to >> say good luck, bud. Game on.

>> Yeah. >> And then you >> That's kind of what I was thinking that it was going to end it on is, well, if you're not going to buy me out, then we're going to continue to be partners.

>> This is a classic. We can do this the hard way or the easy way.

>> But the debt tied to it is a whole another thing you guys got to figure out. you guys form a new agreement saying, "Hey, we're staying in this thing until the debts are paid and then here's how it's going to get divvied up." I think maybe you rip up the current one and draw a new one up that makes sense for both of you cuz the current one is not not really working.

>> A ship that does not sail partnership

>> nailed it. >> It's a it's a hard thing to do and it ruins the friendship. It does on top of it all.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsay principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to ramseyolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseyolutions.com.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Rachel Cruz. And in the third chair, we've added a special guest. We've got Matt Clark, president and chief operating officer at Church Hill Mortgage. You've heard of Church Hill because they've been our trusted mortgage partner for more than 30 years now. And Matt has over two decades of experience at Church Hill.

He's got some deep industry knowledge. So, we wanted to bring him on to help explain to our audience what the heck is going on in the housing market. When are the rates going to magically come down?

Matt, where is your crystal ball? >> Well, if I had a crystal ball and I knew where rates were going to go, I wouldn't be here right now. >> I think that's the biggest question for us. >> Be on an island somewhere.

>> Be on an island somewhere. >> Oh, it's so hard. >> Rates are just unstable right now with everything that's going on in the geopolitical climate with the war in Iran, with oil prices. I mean, rates are very sensitive to those things.

And so it's really hard to tell what rates are going to do. They're they're quite unstable.

They get worse really fast and it takes a long time for them to come back down and get better. >> And so I just think right now people just need to recognize that they got to be patient and there's no way to really predict what rates are going to do.

>> Yeah. Would you say you're pretty confident they'll probably like would we ever see in our lifetime the like 2% again? Like do you think that's probably from the past? Would you assume >> ever is a long time, but I'm not banking

on them coming down to the 2% >> to what it was. Yeah. Yeah. >> Do you find that there's some golden handcuffs out there with people that are hanging on to their 3% rate and so

they're never going to move. Now they're like, "Well, now I'm stuck here. This was my starter home and now it's the forever home." >> Yeah, I do. I think we call that rate locked that people are afraid to let go of that rate.

And at the end of the day, I think if they can afford and they want to buy a house right now, even though their rate may their rate may go up, if it fits their budget, it may not be a bad idea. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Well, speaking of budget, first-time home buyers, that's that's the most frustrated population out there cuz they're going, "Dude, how do I step into this jump rope going 90 m hour? I'm going to get hurt." >> What do you say to them when it comes to rates moving around?

How much that affects their mortgage payment?

>> I want to talk about pre-approval. It's something we don't talk about a lot on the show, but it's one of those things where you go through the process and you're like, I didn't understand I needed to do this. So, talk about preapproval. And Churchill has something special called certified home. >> We do. I mean, when I think about pre-approvals, I think there are really three different types of quote unquote approvals that a lender can give you.

There's they have a a phone call with you and collect some general information and tell you, "Yeah, I can approve you for X amount." And that's a a pre-qualification. And they take that piece of paper and they bring it to their real estate agent. And that agent presents that when they make an offer on a home. And quite frankly, it's not really worth a whole lot because it's not gone through any evaluation.

We most likely haven't collected a lot of documentation. Then there's your standard pre-approval where you collect some information.

based on some automated models, and we send you out with a pre-approval. And then there's what we do at Churchill, which is what we call a certified home buyer. And with a certified home buyer program, we actually fully underwrite your credit and send you off with a

fully credited approved approval, which

allows you to really shop with confidence. And we put on top of that a rate secured program where we lock you in for an extended period of time, 90 days. >> Oh, wow. So that it takes the uncertainty of that approval away >> because you know if interest rates go up, you're already protected and >> you get to keep that lower rate.

>> You get to keep that lower rate and if they go down, we just lock you in when you find a house at the market rate. So you get the best of both worlds. >> That's impressive.

if you present an offer to a seller with a certified home buyer, we guarantee that seller that your credit is good.

The only thing that could go wrong there is appraisal or title work. And if something something happens, we pay the seller 10 grand. >> Wow. >> So, just to back up that process, >> that's impressive.

So, on a spectrum, let me recap this. You have the this person might be good for the money. You have they're probably good for the money with a standard pre-approval. And then you have the they are definitely good for the money with the certified home buyer program.

>> You're able to go into that. So, you know, we have a lot of new listeners to the show. I feel like even most of our callers, they're like, I've just just got on to you guys. So people that are looking to get into the market, but they're doing the baby steps.

So they're working their way out of debt.

>> Okay. At that point, you know, their credit score may be tanking as we speak

andor it's undetermined if it's been long enough, right? They don't have a credit score. So that is one thing that's a little different with Ramsay that we say yes, you can still get a house without a credit score. And we always recommend you guys because you guys are always the place that we say to go to because not everyone can do it, not everyone will do it.

But what does that look like to get a mortgage without a credit score? >> First, the I want to make sure people hear this clearly. Getting a mortgage without a credit score does not mean credit score doesn't matter if you have one. >> Yes, >> it doesn't bypass your current score.

>> It doesn't bypass your score if you if you have one. >> So, the tanking one not good. You can't really buy home. Yeah, >> tanking one is a challenge.

But when you when you come to us with no credit score or what's called an indeterminable score, >> uh we look at um trade lines.

your ability to pay your bills. And so you have to have more than just living in mom and dad's basement, not paying any bills on your own. You actually have to have some sort of established history of taking care of your financial responsibilities. things like cell phone bills and other utility bills or other types of monthly payments that we can use to create an alternate credit

profile and move you forward on a on a um no score loan. >> And that's on top of 12 months of rental

payment history because a lot of people say, "Well, I live with mom and dad. We never had an agreement about it." And you guys go, "Well, we don't know that you can pay a housing bill on time." >> 12 months of housing payments part of that process as well, >> isn't that? So, yeah. So that's the important part, but it can be done, which I think is >> Yeah.

I mean, I've done it. I know that that's not saying much because everyone goes, "Well, it was easy for you to say, no, I got out of debt, didn't have a credit score, and you guys are the specialists in no score loans." I imagine you've probably done more no score loans in the modern world than any mortgage lender out there. >> More in the modern world than anyone ever.

>> I tell I talk to real estate agents, they go, "You can't do that." And I go, "Yeah, I can. Have you not heard of Churchill Mortgage? Where you been?

>> Watch me." >> Oh my goodness. Well, I do want to hit on closing costs because a lot of people we talk about the down payment so much, but then people forget that there's other costs associated. So, what should people expect to pay when it comes to closing costs in general? This can vary widely.

>> Yeah, closing cost consists of a lot of different things. One, there are there are lender fees. Every lender has their own administrative fees, processing fees, underwriting fees. Then you have things that are going to be consistent across the industry.

You're going to have to pay for an appraisal. You're going to have to pay for title insurance. You're going to have to pay for credit report fees.

taxes and tax transfer fees that you have to pay for. And so when you think about rate and you think about getting to the closing table, there's a lot of things that will impact what you have to bring to the table in your closing cost.

The key is getting that transparently put in front of you early on so you're not surprised at the end. And you can get those estimates from your loan officer saying, "Help me understand all of the things I'm going to be paying for so that I'm ready." >> Yep. Yep. Comp, HOA fees, all of those things end up surprising people at the end.

>> Yes. >> Which creates problems for them not having an amount of cash to come to closing with >> to be able to do it all. Yeah. So the full picture is so key.

So someone that is entering into the market for the first time, they may feel kind of intimidated and they're like, "Oh my gosh, am I ready?

We'll say for first-time home buyers or maybe people that haven't, you know, maybe they do they locked in the 2% and they're like we're never going to move and they're like okay actually we're going to look for another house and but it's been decades since they've bought something new. What are a couple of things that you're like okay this would be good from your seat. You're like these are things that you probably need to do. >> Well, one talk to somebody who's going to be patient with you and ask you the right questions.

Find out what you're trying to accomplish and where you are. I remember so well when I bought my first house, 23 years old, I had a child. another one on the way. I was desperate to buy a house.

I found a realtor. They put me in touch with a agent, a loan officer they had a relationship with.

And I ended up not knowing anything.

>> And so I let my an anxiety cause me to make a bad decision and bought a house that was more than I could afford with a mortgage at a rate that I knew nothing about other than they told me I could afford it. >> So get get the facts.

Well, now thank you for being here. If you guys are ready to start your home buying process, the Ramsay way, Church Hill Mortgage can help. They're the folks we trust and they have a special offer for you. 500 bucks off your home appraisal credit at closing only at churchhill mortgage.com/ramsey offer. Go check it out. Thanks again, Matt. >> Thank you. Thanks for being here.

When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I could never do that." And I tell them, "Sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain." But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it, like our Every Dollar Budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So, make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the Every Dollar app and start for free today.

Our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 5:10. He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income. This also is vanity. Chris Rock said, "Wealth is not about having a lot of money. It's about having a lot of options." Well said.

>> Yes, I agree with that. >> Both Solomon and Chris Rock bringing the heat. >> Love it. >> All right, Charlie is in Phoenix up next. What's going on, Charlie?

>> Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I appreciate it. >> Sure. >> So, um I'm um I've been retired for

about six or seven years. I'm 67 and

retired about 60 and we're currently worth about 2.4 $4 million.

>> Awesome. >> In annuities and IAS, um, Roth IRA and

our house and emergency fund about our

high yield savings about 300,000 and

emergency fund about 50,000.

But um so my call is is that and oh and

we we're debtree and in social security

we make about $56,000

in social security a year.

>> Okay. >> Between my wife and I and we have our annuity that pays about $25,000 a year.

>> Okay. >> And which we haven't even started taking yet, but that's what the current um balance would I mean the current um flow would be. >> Okay. And um and then also on the side,

I I officiate high school and college sports. I make about 25 to $30,000 doing

that. >> Wow. >> Nice. >> That's an impressive side hustle.

>> Yeah. So, um but I I have we have these

this these assets, but I'm still I'm

more collecting than I am spending.

That's my my problem here.

>> You want to start deumulating instead of accumulating. Oh, >> it can't seem to let go. And if I like my wife and I took a road trip just a week or so ago and I hooked up for like

five additional um volleyball games. It's one of the sports I ref um so I could pay for it even though I could pay for it, you know. >> Gotcha. Yes. >> It doesn't represent reality. It's just you're stuck in your scarcity loop right now. >> Yes. >> Yeah. I was just wondering what's a good way to try to change that. Um, you know,

like my wife says, "Well, I say I need something." She just go out and buy it.

And I was like, "Well, I got to go get a get a gig before I can buy so I can pay for it." >> Did you grow up with money?

>> Uh, no. >> Are you the first one in your family to be a millionaire and be at this place?

>> Uh, me and one of my other brothers, he's probably worth about 4 million probably. My other two brothers and sisters probably not close.

>> Okay. So, you guys have all done pretty well. >> Um, do you guys have a great financial advisor that you meet with maybe yearly

to look at everything? >> I have a um a Dave Ramsey approved

person and he just retired so he transferred me to another guy. So, I have I just got with him at the beginning of this year. >> Oh, good. Um, and um, so I just talked to him a couple weeks ago and I I told him I wanted to get together and talk about taking cash out just like we went on a cruise last year >> and I go, "Okay, I got to get all these gigs before I can go and pay for it." >> Right.

Right. Right. >> Oh, well, I think the idea of you working and still having a passion for something is just good for you as a human being, right? I still think there's like, you know, you still have this >> a reason to get up and shower is helpful.

>> Yeah, that's great. Um, so there's kind of the two ends of the spectrum here that you got to think about. One is just the facts.

year because you're bringing home probably around what, eight, nine grand a month between your refing, you know, those games and um the pension and everything coming in. And so anything above that, you know, what could we in a

safe way spend extra? And you can look

at that number and say, "Okay, great." And if you want to continue to spend that, that's fine. But what I would say though is I would, this is the emotional side. So you have the tactical, you have the plan of what you can spend. And then what I would say is you don't have to spend all of it, but you need to be spending something extra every month, Charlie, because with money, you're you need to be giving some. Um, you've done your savings. >> I tithe. I do.

>> That's great. Yes. So, you do Yeah. your giving, your saving, and spending. Those are the three things that you need to be doing with money. And they all need to be balanced. And the spending is what's off for you. And so you kind of almost have to rebuild this habit of letting go

of some money and not having this tight control that you have because you know it's wild because on one end of the spectrum money can be such an idol for people that worship it and they spend it and there there's like the vanity side right of just the scripture you just read George but then on the other end it almost becomes an idol because it has so much control over us out of this fear that something's going to happen and I'm not going to be okay. And that fear, it's not rational, right? You got $2.4 million sitting there.

And so, we don't want to be unwise with that. But there needs to be some freedom in your life, Charlie. And and right now, the equation of the freedom to me is is letting go of some and spending and enjoying it.

and you're like, "Hey, or you know, I don't know if you have grown kids or grandkids, but you know, find something meaningful. I'm not saying you have to go buy a bunch of crap and just like have a bunch of stuff, >> but if there's things you can do to enhance your life, >> uh, or to make things easier, if you guys need someone to come clean the house once a week, you know, >> buying your time back is one of the best ways to spend your money. Buying experiences with people you love. Dr.

Arthur Brooks says one of the best things you can do with your money. >> So, we do have we have three kids and 17

grandkids. >> Oh, wow. How fun.

>> There's some reasons to spend money.

That's great. >> Yeah. Well, when they become fourth graders, we take them on a 3,000 mile road trip. >> Oh, that's fun. Yes. Yes.

>> We have one coming up this year. The destination Yellowstone. We go White River rafting. We're doing rodeos.

>> Oh, I love it. >> Traveling camp. >> But I Yeah. And so I just got to My wife

tells me that I just need to get out of that mode of saving. I I had to go from a saver to a spender.

>> Yes. And it's been a hard transition.

Even though when she wants to do something, I'll go, "Okay, I'll go get a couple gigs and we can pay for it." You know? >> Right. Right. >> And so, >> what if you just cut the side hustle for six months and said, "I'm not going to do it and I'm going to spend money." >> Would that free you? >> And that's a hard that's a hard thing because I'm in a leadership role in one of the side gigs.

>> Oh, they need you now. Like, hey man, you're running this show >> and you enjoy it, right, Charlie? In general. I well this is my 50th year

officiating record.

>> Oh that might be a world record.

>> That's amazing. I don't know about that which I appreciate your advice and you know I do listen to you quite often. You talk about side gigs and delivery and stuff like that. I would encourage you to tell tell people to look into officiating wrestling or officiating in general because I do make 30 to 50 60

bucks an hour doing that. That's impressive. >> That is good. Is it wrestling? Is that what you said? >> I do I do mostly wrestling. That's what I have 50 years in. 25 in volleyball.

>> Okay. >> And I played baseball at one time also.

That's awesome. >> Good for you. >> Well, I would have a little dream date with your wife and you know, buy the apps, buy the desserts, the stuff that makes you feel guilty and do it without guilt. And then have a little dream date where you go, "Hey, if we were to spend x amount of money this year, where would we divvy it all out?" and then put it in the budget and go, "Hey, we decided, remember, we preddecided that we're going to send the money over here and we're going to buy this thing here.

>> Yeah. Because it's all about balance at this point. And you you guys have done a fantastic job, Charlie. I mean, unbelievable. What did what careers did you and your wife have to accumulate $2.4 million? was a my wife was a

stay-at-home mom until our youngest uh

went to what I think it was high school.

So, she did 16 years as a dental assistant. >> Yep. >> And then I was uh I I don't I don't have

a college degree or anything, but I was

a computer engineer for IBM IBM

mainframe engineer for like 30 years.

>> Okay. That's awesome. >> Good for you. That's amazing. Absolutely amazing. And one thing to do with that Smart Vtor Pro, Charlie, that I think will be helpful is they can walk you through your current withdrawal rate of, hey, you're spending $50,000 a year out of this much of your nest egg. That's a 1% spend. You can go up to three, four,

five without ever running out of money.

>> And they can show you the actual dollar amount of, hey, you could up it to 2% or two and a half or three or four, which is $100,000, and still never run out of

money. I think some of those trusted,

you know, investment advis,

not because I feel like I need punishment, that >> I need to. That's right. That's right. Well, well done, Charlie. You guys are a success story. Absolutely amazing.

>> Good problem to have. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 277. Your Debt Will Catch You Eventually—Face It Now | December 12, 2025


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show. I'm Dave Ramsey. Ken Coleman, number one bestselling author, Ramsey Network, star of Front Row Seat, as my co-host today.

Open Phones at8255225.

Teresa is in Providence, Rhode Island.

Hi, Teresa. How are you?

>> I am good, gentlemen. How are you?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> Excellent. Are you in a good mood?

That's the first question.

>> Because I need you to sit back and think. I want you to count to three before you answer my question.

>> Wow. Okay. I can't wait to hear what this is. >> I will say as his co-host, I just spoke with him for about 5 minutes. I think he's in a fabulous mood. I don't know if that helps you. >> Appreciate that. >> Well, no, I had nothing to do with it. Don't give me any credit.

>> Wow. >> This is interesting. >> Okay. All right. >> We need a weather forecast before we bring the question. All right.

>> We do. Okay. Here we go. Dark and Stormy. I have an ex-husband. I have two children. My ex has a girlfriend and a

son. And we are all great friends. We

give white trash new meaning without a doubt. Every Saturday we go to brunch together and then we have a misery and we do something together that's miserable. That's why we call it the misery trip. But my point here is neither one of my children who are 23 and 21, financially sound, out of school, in good careers, no debt, bank in their coin like you read about, can't buy houses. So we're thinking of a family compound.

We're thinking of do we put it in a trust? Do we have each person have a

quarter say in it? What happens when one of them wants to leave this compound?

Do we have to have a vote so that they can go out, but they have to have equity to go with them so they could buy their own house? Not that I think anybody would ever leave the compound, but just to throw it out there as a possibility.

So, we want to do it the right way, but we all want to have our own little independent houses on this land.

Can it be done without, I don't know, shotgunning each other?

And you should know in our family dynamics, we have very expensive purses and very expensive guns. And I will agree with you. Two guns to a purse is absolutely correct.

>> I will say this sounds like a great idea for a reality show.

>> Oh yeah, we could put Kardashians out of business.

No doubt in my mind.

>> Wow. Well, y'all are a lot of fun. Um,

>> yeah. So my right my problem is both kids want to do houses but they can't afford it. >> Yes they can >> singly. Yes they can. >> Well they can in five years.

>> Well so what? They'll still be in their 20s. People buy a house in their 20s first time. That's not an end of war.

>> All right. Well we kind All right. Fair enough. We were we were all talking about if we did it and we kind of put a trust together cuz I'm on the hill coming down. I don't want anything in my name. >> I think there's more downside than upside here. This is one of those things that all of the variables would have to work >> perfectly for everyone to come out intact. And as we all know, all the

variables never work out perfectly. So, um there's just so many >> uh negative things that can happen from this that outweigh the few positives that I wouldn't do it.

>> Okay? >> You could get stuck. This weird relationship you've got could go sideways again. You know, it could be,

you know, the kid could get stuck in there and and or marries a girl who doesn't want anything to do with this compound and then he's stuck and then we have to have a communal vote like it's communism or something. No, this just No, I'm >> um >> you're against it. Just maybe all buy houses on the same block. >> That'd be fine. Or if you bought a piece of property and everyone had a had their own parcel that was marketable and

everybody's not pissed if they sell it later, you know, then um >> Oh, that's an option then. So, just get a larger piece of land where it can be parcled out to each of us. But again, >> again, as long as everybody's cool when I sell my house and move

>> at that point, I don't Well, the right the older ones will, like I said, I'm on the hill down, so I have I was looking not to put anything in my name necessarily. >> Well, I'm not that that, you know, it doesn't matter. or just whoever has a piece of property, they have their own life and they have boundaries and they

have legal rights and they have relational rights to at some at some point someday sell this house cuz about the only thing I'm sure of is there are no forever homes except heaven.

And so at some point your son is a

grandfather and he wants to move away where his kids

are in Phoenix and somebody's going to

be pissed if it the whole thing's based on well you're the one that broke it all up, you know, and I don't I don't need that thing. I just don't need any of that. So our kids all our three kids live within a mile of each other and within 25 minutes of Sharon and I. But

everybody has owns their own thing and everybody's allowed to buy or sell and we talk about it sometimes as as as just you know family relations cheer one of

one of ours bought sold a home and moved up considerably the other day and we were cheering them on and we have a discussion about it but we don't get to say no you can't do that or we're mad at you. >> Yeah, that uh that freaked me out just listening to that and I would say this, you got to know when you've got a win and take the win and be okay with the win. And I think the weekly brunch where you guys are all happy in this crazy scenario is a win. I think you should leave it there.

That's a miracle in and of itself.

Don't try to make this whole living thing this controlled community. It just

feels weird and someone's going to be let down. Yeah, good question. Good question. And you know, it's kind of a theme I've been on for the last two weeks, Ken. And I'll circle back on it, too, because the the one of the driving motivations was a 23

year old can't buy a house. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Or 26-y old can't buy a house in Orlando, Florida. Well, A, they can, but

B, they can't have been first victimized

by the large banks, the car companies, and the student loan machine.

And so if you're 26 and you have a $1,200 car payment because you got screwed by Lexus Motor Credit believing

you were building up your FICO score and

then you ran up a bunch of Visa debt because you're building up points that matter not to anyone anything.

And then you went and got a degree for $180,000 from a university that's some somehow supposed to make you successful in a degree field like left-handed puppetry or German poker history and then you can't figure out why you can't get a good job and you're $180,000 in debt. A and then you know and you just keep

going where these big banks, these car companies, the FICO program, the student loan program has trapped the Gen Z's and

the millennials. Now the millennials and the Gen Z's signed up for it. I went broke in my 20s because I was such an idiot. I signed up with these types of people and they took my head off.

But when people start talking about a 23 year old, 26 year old, it's not it's not affordable now. It's because they first and foremost have been screwed and they're trapped in all these other debt payments and that makes them think they can't buy a house. No, they they got to get out of that mess. That's right.

And quit playing footsie with these big banks cuz let me tell you, City Bank runs washed up actors on there saying, "What's in your wallet?" Bradley Cooper does not really live in a in a lobby, boys and girls. I'm just saying, you know, and at some point y'all got to go, I'm not going to get screwed by you people anymore. I'm not going to take it anymore.

I quit. And when Gen Z and millennials

start doing that, they get out of debt, the affordability crisis, in air quotes, will really start to go away.

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Carlos is with us in San Francisco. Oh, hey Carlos. How are you >> doing? Well, thank you for having me.

>> Sure. How can we help?

>> So, I kind of did what u you probably did a long time ago. I started a business and it was booming. Uh made my first million in a couple of years and um it just kind of went it's it just my

financial life just spiraled out of control and uh now I don't know if I should go bankrupt and um figure out a way how to get back on track. Um, I

haven't done any any um payroll taxes

and I owe since 2017 2018.

Um, I also haven't filed taxes since I

was in 2017 2018.

And um, credit cards, I have over $70,000 in credit card debt.

Um, I have a commercial line of credit,

which is another 30,000 that I owe the bank.

Um, I took an SBA loan out, which is the

emergency funding. This is during the uh PPP uh time. Um, sorry, I might have

it's the uh >> the one for COVID. Um, qualify for that

because I didn't file my 2021 or 2020 taxes. So, I had to actually get a loan out to keep my um employees on board with me and that's 132,500

there. So, alto together it's well over

$350,000 in debt. >> Is your business still open?

>> It is. I just uh had to let go of all of my employees and um I had to minimize

all of my accounts. Uh, currently I think I have like four or five accounts that I drive to every single night. Um, my industry is janitorial business. Um,

so yeah, it's uh it's tough. Um,

>> so what are you making with the three or four accounts?

>> So it's 9,777.

Uh, that's per month. And um, I did the

math on all my expenses.

Uh, they equal out to about 7,877

a month. >> Are you married?

>> I'm engaged.

>> Okay.

When do you plan to get married?

>> Oh, Jesus. Not anytime soon.

>> Okay. All right. What does she make?

>> I'd probably say around the 3,000 a month. >> Mhm. Okay. How old are you?

20. No, 38. Sorry. 38.

>> All right.

>> Well, this is a really, really scary situation. And it didn't happen suddenly. It's happened pretty gradually. Um, >> absolutely. >> So, really, really bad news for you that apparently you're not aware of. 941 payroll taxes are not bankruptible and neither and neither is the IRS. So, all

of your taxes are going to be there if you file bankruptcy.

Um, I'm not sure if this SBA loan is bankruptible because it's COVID related.

It might be. Um,

certainly the credit cards and the line of credit are uh bankruptible. Uh, but

you're not that, you know, >> the problem doesn't go away with bankruptcy is my point. You still got a

massive problem. And um so the first

thing I need you to do before we even talk about bankruptcy is when you get off the phone, I want you to go to ramseolutions.com and click on tax ELPs,

endorsed local providers, find the tax person in your area that we are, it's Ramsey trusted, and I want you to sit down with them and develop a strategy to get caught up on your filings.

Typically, when you have not filed this far back, um they'll take three years

tax returns, you don't have to go all the way to 2017.

And um and then you'll of course owe those taxes. And I don't know what they'll do with the potential owings from those others. The 941s, however, you withheld taxes on your employees,

right? >> Right. >> And then didn't pay it.

>> Correct. >> Yeah. That's a trust account and those live forever.

>> That's and that's the IRS puts that in the extremely serious bucket.

>> Yeah, >> that one is like really scary. So, you

need to develop a strategy with a tax person on the 941s and on getting your

returns caught up because here's what's scaring me. Um, apparently you didn't realize not paying income taxes is not a

criminal offense. Not filing is a

criminal offense.

>> Correct. >> 2561 people went to jail last year. They

put people in jail for not filing. Okay.

And you have not filed a lot. So, I want

you but but I I've never in 35 years of doing this seen someone actually get prison time or get criminally charged if they come forward. But if the IRS comes and finds you, you're going to be screwed. So, you need to take care of this proactively tomorrow. You need to

meet with a tax tax person and start developing a game plan on your back taxes and your back 941s. Then you can start looking at whether or not we, you know, what I would do is just not pay the credit card and cut it up. I would not pay the commercial line of credit and I would not pay the SBA, which by the way is what happens if you file bankruptcy, right?

>> Yeah. >> They don't get paid. So, I would not pay them and I would take all of the cash flow above living expenses and start dumping it first and foremost on the 941s and then secondly on whatever back

IRS taxes you have. And if one of these

others comes after you and tries to shut you down or foreclose on something or whatever, that might force you into bankruptcy. But we're going to address the non the things that are not bankruptable, which is the IRS

in this case, um before we bother with a

stupid line of credit or credit card.

>> Yeah. And then you go to working as hard as you can work and you properly pay and file your taxes every day for the rest of your life from this day forward.

>> Oh yeah. >> That has affected your ability to do business because it's a monster in the closet. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. And you you wake up in the middle of the night and you don't know why. I know. It's called stress and you're hurting.

>> You're hurting and you're scared.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's terrifying. So that that's what I would do. Are you in a good church by chance?

>> I I I don't go to church. I do believe in God. I just don't have the time to. I work. >> Yeah. You You don't have the time not to now. You You need a You need a relationship that is above and beyond hard work. You're not afraid of hard work. You've just made a mess and you need some people in your life that love you regardless of how messy you are. And

um that that's the place to get it. So, I'm going to I'm going to suggest you plug into that because it's the the answer to being terrified is to be in community and have friends.

Lonely people are super terrified more than people who have friends in their corner.

Make sense? >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. So, get get some people in your corner.

I I have a homework assignment for you, Carlos. We don't have time to unpack it, but what I would have loved to have sat with you on is to identify what was going right. In other words, what was working when you were really killing it? You started the call saying, "We had some great success." I think you mentioned over a million dollars of revenue.

I think you need to at some point spend enough time to write it down and say, "What was working? What was I doing right when we were do when we were crushing it?" And in times of failure where businesses can go up and down, one of the great exercises is to identify that.

>> Go back to doing that. >> That's right. What has to change? What do I need to do in order to start doing that again?

Because that was a formula that worked. And I think right now, you're in a desperate situation. And so, if you can get some clarity through that exercise and start to repeat that again, that's your best chance to make more money and dig yourself out of this. And so Carlos, when you're working really, really, really hard and you're managing the money, we're going to buy food, lights, and water, shelter, transportation, and pay taxes, back taxes in your case.

And that's all you need to be doing right now. complete focus on that and complete focus on any new accounts you can add and start growing the business back again with a proper accounting system that keeps you caught up on these things because where you are is terrifying.

Hey, you call me back if we can be more help as you're fighting through this. We'll help you any way we can.

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Half a point drop in the Fed.

What's that going to do to mortgage rates? Probably going down some more.

What's that going to do to the housing market? Probably going to heat up a little bit. So, merry Christmas. If

you're buying or selling a home, it's a big deal. And with the clickbait and the headlines and all the data out there saying that you can't do it, it's awful.

It's horrible. It's not It's not great,

but it's not to the point you can't do it. You can do it. Home prices have held steady steady all through the winter.

They're hovering right around 424,000 median sales price in America. Mortgage

rates are at 5 a half and probably going on down um with this um they generally

follow the Fed as we all know. They're not directly tied, but generally follow it. If you want to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseyssolutions.com/market.

And always remember that there are Ramsey trusted real estate pros that you can get connected to at ramseyssolutions.com as well. Daryl is in Orlando. Hi Daryl.

How are you?

>> Hi Dave. Hey Ken. How are you guys?

>> Great man. What's up?

>> Uh just got a question for you. Um,

luckily it's kind of a good question, but really I want you y'all's opinion on this. Um, I'll I'll throw out the question and then we'll fill in the details after for you to uh formulate your your thoughts. Uh, so the question is, my wife and I are both recently 61.

So she's retired. I've got nine more years. So, what I'm thinking or what what we're considering, would it be reasonable for us to cut back on our uh

401 on my 401k contributions to free up

some fund money for us?

>> How much are you putting into your 401k percentage wise? >> Uh percentage-wise, 16% which right now

is about 33 34,000. It's the uh the max

plus the ketchup. >> So, you make two you make 200 a year.

about 220. Yep. >> And And so 34 from 200 is 167. 166. And

you can't have any fun on 166.

>> Oh, no. We're having fun now, but we're thinking we could have maybe a little more fun, do a little more giving, that kind of thing. >> Mhm. Okay.

>> We're We're empty nesters. Kids are >> Why do I have a feeling I'm going to hear a ridiculously large number in this 401k right now?

>> It's I wouldn't call it ridiculously large. Well, a little bit of background

and and thanks to your teachings, Dave.

Uh, our net worth is about 2.1. Um, 1.3

of that is invest cash and investments, the other 800 in real estate.

So, um, my my thought is the if I don't

even touch the money that's there, it should probably double over that 9-year period. >> It'll more than double over the nine years. Yeah, it'll double double in about seven, assuming you're invested in good mutual funds.

Um, >> yeah. Yeah, they've done well.

>> Yeah. Does your wife work outside the home?

>> No, no, no. She's uh >> Oh, you said that. You said that earlier. Okay. So, what are you talking about reducing this?

>> Cutting it back from maybe uh 16% to

like 10% and free up about about 12,000

a year. About about a,000 a month, >> which is, you know, I kind of look at that as maybe an extra cruise.

>> Okay. Well, you're certainly okay. And

yet, yeah, you're right. your 1.2 in

mutual funds would be 2.4, you know,

when you're 68. And when you're 75, uh,

it's going to be 5 million. And that's if you don't touch it and you just let it grow. And I got a feeling you're going to be able to do that. House is paid off, right? >> I think so. >> Yep. >> Okay. Zero debt. >> Real estate is paid off. >> Zero debt. No debt. Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, kind of what we're doing is some sometimes the way people view retirement is suddenly, okay? Like you save save, then you retire and you live off the savings. Okay?

>> Right? >> And so what we're doing is kind of going for the last last nine years, we're just kind of going to go in the middle. We're going to save a little less. We're going to save a little less and use that money now rather than later. And is it going to hurt you? Not substantially. Um, yeah, I probably would do this. Yeah, >> but I I'm just I'm just curious.

>> If you told me you had a half a million dollars in saving in in your investments, I would say no.

>> Yeah, I get that. >> Okay. >> And Darl, I have no problem with what Dave said. I I I always lean that direction. Live life. But I am curious with your income and and no debt and just how responsible you've been. This is all about $12,000. Yeah.

>> Could Dave and I not find $12,000 in your existing budget?

Oh, we could, but um it's just like like

I said, we we do things now. I mean, you know, we go on trips with our friends, but you know, this would be a little extra here again to not only maybe do an extra trip or two, but also give you some more to our local charities and that kind of thing, which we do quite a bit of now. But uh this would just I mean it the way I look at it it's about $100,000 $108,000 of spending now to

versus um but I did did the math it's a

difference of about 180,000 at the 16%

versus uh 10%.

>> Yeah. >> So >> well not and you're not counting what it's going to grow to over that nine years. But still that's that's okay.

you. It's not none of this is going to put you anywhere near anything except really wealthy. And so, yeah, you're fine. You're fine. And I I I think I would do that. And in in your situation,

it's it's what your desire is.

>> So, there's one of the things that um we get a lot of, Ken, and this is not that call, but it's like, I've saved and now I don't know how to have fun, >> right? >> You know, I've got this big old pile of money. Now, how do I reprogram my brain from being frugal all the time to actually enjoying some of it? And so, um, uh, you know, Daryl doesn't have that trouble. >> No, no, >> but Daryl's okay. He's done a good job.

And you've got, you know, you're a multi-millionaire at 61 years old.

Congratulations, sir. The American dream is alive and well.

>> There are Daryls out there everywhere, boys and girls.

>> Your communist college professor was wrong. They're everywhere.

This this is the greatest land the world has ever known. The greatest opportunity for someone who has nothing to become wealthy in the history of mankind. There

are darls everywhere and we've got the data to prove it. Yeah. Pick up Baby Steps Millionaires the book the latest um not the latest one of the latest bestsellers I've had and the study on millionaires is the white paper in the back of it. You can look at all the research. It's there. It's there's a lot of Daryls out there. And he's done a great job. Oh, yeah. And and I want to make sure people caught this. He's still talking about working nine more years.

And as Dave pointed out, that 2.1 or whatever it was million is going to double, more than double in that nine-year period. And then through their 70s, it's going to double again. And if they live in their 80s. So, I mean, long-term, the amount of money he's got already is going to be way more than enough as it just does compound interest. Amanda is in Columbus, Mississippi. Hi, Amanda. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. >> So, um, my question is, how do my husband and I navigate money and in-laws during the holidays? So, we are we'll

officially be out of debt in 18 months.

We have about $105,000 left with a

combined salary of $162,000.

Um, we both decided not to travel while we were in the process of paying off debt because we're broke. So, we couldn't even, you know, afford to travel. >> Good. However, our my in-laws are wanting to come see us. Um, and we don't have the greatest relationship. Uh, the biggest issue is that they both have a alcohol problem. Uh, my father-in-law is

very violent and unpredictable when when drunk. He's like tried to attack my husband. He's attacked his daughter. Um, they verbally attacked me. Um, >> what's that got to do with travel?

>> Well, they they're basically saying that we want to come see you.

>> That's fine. come see us. Get a hotel.

>> Well, we told them that. But the issue is is that they drink. And so even if >> Well, if they're visiting, if anybody's visiting your home and gets violent, they just have to leave. But they have a hotel.

>> Yes, they will have a hotel. So, we did make it clear that we, you know, we didn't want them to stay with us. Um, >> I mean, this has nothing to do with you being on baby step two. This has to do with how you're going to how you and your husband are going to make a decision of someone coming into your home potentially drunk and potentially violent.

That's all this is. Has nothing to do with travel. Has nothing to do with baby step two. It's just how am I what kind of boundaries am I going to put up?

What kind of communication am I going to have? I wish Dr. John Deloney was here.

You don't want him to come and you don't want to be near him. So it again has anything to do with baby step two. But if you if your husband wants to have him come to the hotel and visit, come by. As long as you guys are sober and not violent, you're welcome to come by. But don't bring the drunk and don't bring this violence with you or it won't work out. You know, that's all that is.

I love entrepreneurs. Don't forget guys, I started my company on a card table myself. So, I know what it's like to have people counting on you. Your team, your family, not to mention your customers. And when you're the one signing the paychecks, you can't afford to fly blind. But I'll be honest, early on, one thing that nearly sunk us was wasting time with spreadsheets that didn't add up because business units didn't talk to each other. I finally told my team just fix it and they did.

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>> Andrew is in Los Angeles. Hi, Andrew.

How are you?

>> I'm good, Mr. Andrew. Thank you for taking my call. >> Sure. What's up? >> Um, I I have a question. Um, so about 10

years ago, my dad passed away. Um, and so my my mom, she uh >> she uh took on a lot of the the life insurance money. And so she downsized her house uh about three years ago and used half of that half of it to pay for the house and use the other half to show as income. Well, she's been nickeling and dimining that for the past three years and she's out of money.

So, I if she downsized her house,

>> why did she need to use the insurance money?

>> Um, she sold it and so she used it was

half of the insurance money and half of the equity that she made from her previous house. >> Oh, I see. How much insurance money did she receive?

>> Uh, I want to say roughly 300,000.

>> Okay. So, she used 150 7 years after he

passes.

>> Yeah. No, I'm I'm sorry. She used so she received about 300 from there and then received another 250 from the last previous house that we had. Um so she she got she used the equity to pretty much pay for this new house 3 years ago.

>> How much was it? >> And so she's in right now it's 240,000 that's owed.

>> Oh, she owes money on the house.

>> Yes.

And so my question is um what should we

do? Uh me and my fiance are planning to buy a house in the next year. I'm suggesting maybe she sell the house and

she can help me invest in a house and so she has a place to live with us where my brother is suggesting she ran out the house and use that to pay for itself.

And might I also mention she has zero debt also just other than the house. So

the house that she currently lives in, she owes 250 on.

>> Yeah. 240. Yes. >> And what is it worth?

>> Roughly five. >> Okay. And so why does she she for 10 years he's been gone. Is she not work?

>> She No, she was not working.

>> How old is she?

>> She's 57.

>> Okay. Well, there's the problem, hun.

It's not the house. She needs to get a job.

She thought 300,000 was 3 million.

>> It's not. >> Mhm. >> And now she needs a job.

>> So what what should our plans be? Should >> there's not our plan? Her plan should be she gets a job. Your plan should be you get married and start a life and no, you don't move in with her and no, you don't use any of her money and she needs her money and no, we we don't have a plan.

She needs a plan. and she needs to get a job and quit burning through this cash.

And you need to get married and have a life and just love wave over there at your mom and say, "I love you."

>> Yeah, I'm scared for her.

>> I I'm scared for her, too, because her habits are horrible.

>> I cannot believe somebody's gone. She's 47 years old when he died, and she's developed zero income since then.

>> 57. She's been unemployed for maybe 5 years. >> No, she's 57 now, you said.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. So, he died 10 years ago,

>> roughly. >> Yeah. 47. That's how that works. Yeah.

So, >> yeah. So, I mean, she's not working,

dude. Yeah. Yeah. It's not your problem.

But what we're trying to help you see is is that while you have the emotions, and you can have the emotions for her and feel bad for her and be scared for her, but also have to live your own life.

>> Yeah. I'm I'm scared for you, Mom. You need to get a job. Matter of fact, you needed to get a job five years ago when you lost the other one or whatever happened five years ago. So, she worked five of the 10 years. But, um otherwise, you're going to lose this house because you're going to burn through this money.

This is not there's not enough money here to support you. Have you not figured the math out on that, Mom? And uh I love you. I'm cheering for you. I sure hope you go get a job and I hope you quit burning through this money. Uh because that's what really really really desperately needs to happen. And I'll you know I'll introduce you all this Ramsay stuff and they'll help you cuz we'd love to help her. That I'd be happy to do that. But um wow. But yeah, you

you don't you you're not in a position to rescue her and you using some of her money to buy you a house that she lives in. Yeah, that's a little self- serving.

No thank you. No, I'll pass on that one, too. let you know you guys need to just

love her for where she is and coach her and cheer for her and hopefully she'll follow some of that and that's where I

would go. Josh is with us. Josh in Orlando, Florida. Hi Josh. How are you?

>> Doing good sir. How are you? >> Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah. So, it's a struggling to pay off a mountain of credit card debt and

helping with my spouse sticking to a

budget.

>> Mhm.

>> How does how does putting together how does putting together the budget work at your house? >> How involved is your spouse putting it together?

>> Uh, I'm the one solidating the budget.

>> Yeah. >> They don't. So, she's having trouble sticking to your budget that she didn't have a vote on. No shock.

>> Yes. It's uh problem is it was up to me to create the budget. She would did not want to be involved. >> Yeah. >> That's fine. But she has to get involved once it's created and look at it and have a vote because we two adults need to accomplish our common goals that we have in this marriage, which is survive and prosper.

>> Yes. >> So, honey, we got to sit down and look at this together. This is what I think it looks like. Now I need you to look at it and make your changes and then we are going to both agree to stick too after we make the changes because we actually have to be adults. Devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good.

And we both have to be adults in this.

And gosh, I need your help. I need your vote. I need your set of eyes. I need your wisdom. And I need your input. And I need your buy in. And all those things come together. So, but you you can't do

a budget and then come in like like Moses coming down from the mountain with two tablets and go this is what God says. It doesn't work.

>> Yes. And one struggle is we come from

two different perspectives on budgeting and money. I was raised more on the Ramsy method and

she comes from a Hispanic household and they more of the freely spend and the

bills. >> That's not a Hispanic disease, dude.

>> That's just a disease. Everybody's got it. Greeningo's got it too, man. So, you

know, that's just No, that's hillbillies, Cinjun, Italians. We all

got that same disease, man. So, no, that's uh uh it's it's called growing up, and I'm going to live on less than I make. I'm not in the US Congress, and so we need to sit down together. But it's about her being a grown woman instead of a little girl who's being taken care of by her man. That's bull crap. So, the

two of y'all sit down together and work on this together. Ken, when people work together like that, it's it increases communication, cooperation. You're agreeing on your dreams, you're agreeing on your fears. It changes everything.

>> Yeah, it does. And I I think in this case, it's less about obviously the uh

uh the race of somebody, but it is the environment that they grew up in. And so your household was very different with how they approached money and her house was different. So now we've got to get on the same page. And I think I would be asking more questions of your of your wife. And I would be asking her, is it the principle of every dollar knowing

where it's going? uh or is it the process that you just don't like? And it seems and I would ask these questions.

You may already know the answer, but to get her in a conversation, she's not on the witness stand. You know, you're not attacking. You're just going, "Hey, help me understand what about the budgeting

process you don't agree with or don't like. I need your help." >> Yes. But the more you can get understanding of why she thinks or acts

the way she does about money, the better chance you have at getting on the same page. And so this is a conversation. It

might end up in counseling in a good way, not a crisis, but a hey, we need a professional to help us communicate our fears, our desires around money so we get on the same page. But Dave, you're absolutely right. We when we listen to Deere Screams, it's most obvious when you hear the story, no matter which spouse brought the idea home or Dave's book or whatever has happened. Once they fully get on the same page, it's unbelievable momentum.

And we hear it all the time. And by the way, it's not just money momentum, relationship momentum across the table. Yeah. The typical debtree scream says it changed our marriage.

That's right. When we started working together, it increased communication.

It's just so much easier. But I would just frame it in I need your help and we got to be two grown-ups and we got to do this together. Your vote counts.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studios. Ken

Coleman, Ramsay personality, number one bestselling author and host of the front row seat on Ramsay Networks. He's my

co-host today. Gina's in Boston. Hi, Gina. How are you?

>> Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure. What's up?

>> Yeah, I think I really need your wisdom today. I've been following you now for almost a year. Um I'm a single mother of two boys, both teenagers now, but I solely raised myself. Um but I'm about to I'm engaged and about to get married um middle next year. Um he's a very good man, very hardworking, but I think he's dealing with um financial situation. he has multiple debts and um lots of things

that don't just seem right with him and most of the things he didn't tell me. I got to find out over the course of our dating for about a year. Um because I

was able to step in, we put in some structure, but I'm a little bit worried about what happens when we get married.

Um how do we merge finances? What do I do? Um and and >> how much debt does he have?

Um about $100,000.

>> Okay. And what does he make?

>> About 58. >> Okay. And what kind of debt is it?

>> Um 80,000 is student loan which he abandoned until I made him pick up again. Um and so he started making payments on that. And then the rest are between credit card debts and different

um debts that have been defaulted.

>> Okay. Did you say that he didn't tell you about these debts and you had to find them?

>> He didn't tell me except for the student loan.

>> Okay. Why?

>> I don't know. So, when I stumbled on it, I asked questions and I went straight to the government site. Um, I did a case look up and I saw a series of about three or so deaths and he claimed that I

mean he knew about some of them. I don't even know. It didn't make any sense. No answer. But why didn't you tell me? He said he was worried, he was scared that I would, you know, feel bad about him

>> or not trust him, but he's willing to start making payments. And so he together we're able to put a structure.

I pray out the seven baby steps introduced into Dave Ramsey. And >> well, the big the big question is not the debts. The big question is, is this guy going to lie to you every time he's ashamed?

>> That's what I'm worried about. And so I don't know how to make progress with, you know, settling down. Do we match finances? Do we separate those things?

>> Yeah. I think I think you guys need some good pre-marriage counseling because trust was broken and um you're you're

uncomfortable with a lack of trust.

>> Yeah, I I agree. I there's a good sign that when you brought up the student loan uh that he said, "Okay, I'm going to pick it back up. I think he wants to

uh please you, but he's got to get healthy himself." So, I think Dave's right. some premarital counseling and maybe some some one-on-one counseling for him. I would press pause. If you were my sister or cousin or family member and you told me this, I'd say I would press pause. And I'm going to tell you that today >> until you can until you can answer the question and looking in the mirror and say, "I completely trust this man."

>> You really shouldn't put a ring on something that you don't trust.

>> It's a bad idea. Um cuz that's going to

that that parlays into a whole bunch of things then. >> Yeah. >> And so well he was ashamed. Okay. I I get why he hid it >> and it's perfectly logical but there's

one person on the planet that you have to trust and that's got to be your spouse.

And if you can't um then that's either sign of the relationship is struggling or broken or

you know one or both parties. How we're interacting and sometimes that is a everyone should spend time on premarriage counseling. By the way, the data says that the likelihood of your marriage surviving is greatly increased

with in-depth premarriage counseling because you not only learn how to talk to each other, you learn how to deal with all the rest of the family in that process. And boy, that's a thing. Yeah.

And so on. So yeah, you guys need to do that anyway. But in this case, you could dig this out. It might not be anything serious, but you can't you're you have

doubt.

And doubt is not how you walk down the aisle. >> Uh not on something as major as trust.

So yeah, you got to get where say, I trust this man. I'm I'm committing my life to spending my life with this man.

that that's a lot of trust. And so, um, yeah, and and you're single mom with two kids and he's going to be involved with the kids. You got to be able to trust him and he's got to be able to open up to you. You got to be a safe place to

say, "I made a mistake." Uh, a safe place to have a discussion that's uncomfortable. And, uh, maybe you are, maybe you aren't. I don't know. But, uh, um, but I would spend it on that.

Patson's in Iowa. Hi, Pat. What's up?

Hi, thank you for taking my call.

>> Sure, how can we help? >> I'd like an I like an I like an opinion whether I can my wife and I can buy a a winter home based on our financial situation. >> A winter home? Where's the winter home?

>> Florida. >> Oh, a winter home where it's warm in the winter. >> That's what I was wondering, too. Where are we going? >> Pretty cool. I thought we were going ice fishing for a minute. Okay.

>> All right. And so, >> yeah, you've already got it in Iowa.

You're in it. Yeah, you already got you already got that figured out. Okay, cool. So, what does the uh Florida home cost?

>> Well, we're thinking around 300,000.

>> Do you have 300,000?

>> Well, yeah, we do. You would like a little rundown of where I'm at?

>> Sure. How much what's your net worth?

>> Well, our net worth is about 1.3

and uh net income self and two pensions

is about 85 and our yearly RMD is about

22. And what's your uh what's your uh

age?

>> We are both 75.

>> Okay. All right. What's your current home worth?

>> Current homes worth about 280.

>> And you got family in that area?

>> Yes, sir. >> Okay. So, you're going to have 300 and 300 in real estate. 600 out of 1.2. And

the other 6 or 800 will be in your retirement, I assume.

>> Yes, >> I would do that. Yes. Okay.

>> If I'm paying cash is weak.

>> You have no debt. You have no debt.

>> I'm sorry. You have no debt. No. Okay.

And we rarely rarely touch the portfolio except for the R&D. >> Yeah. So, how much um time are you

already spending in Florida?

>> Four months. >> What are you doing when you're there? Where what kind of housing are you just renting a house?

>> Yes, we're renting a house. We've been doing this for about eight years and the rent runs about 13,000 for the four months and we figured we could use that to cover the maintenance on something we buy. >> Yeah. Easily. And it goes up in value.

Yeah. Actually, that's exactly what I was going to suggest cuz some people think they want second homes and they've never done it. And um but you've been doing it. You've got you've you've you've had your practice run. You've tried the shoe on. It fits.

>> So yeah, that that even ensures even more that I'm doing this. Way to go, man. Congratulations.

Retires a millionaire. >> Yeah. So fun. And boy oh boy,

getting out of Iowa in the winter time.

Have you ever been to Iowa? I bet you have. I remember a February, it was a speaking gig at one point and I remember getting out of the car to go into the hotel and I couldn't breathe for 15 seconds. This blast of cold air hit me and I'm like, who lives here? And I went around the town interviewing people. How do you do this?

No, it's great. I love that. So that's very that's a classic there. Are are you old enough to where like you're when you were growing up people had the goal of someday retiring in Florida?

>> No question. Yeah. >> Okay. It was like it was like the retirement state. >> No question. >> When I was a kid that was like you had arrived. >> Yeah. if you got a place in Florida and that's >> Bokea Del Vista or whatever it was on Seinfeld.

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Well, if you feel like me, you're, you know, feel like sometimes you're starting from scratch with your money. I don't feel that way now, but I remember feeling that way. It's not because you aren't disciplined, and it's not because you're not consistent. It's because you're emotionally overwhelmed. And emotions are part of personal finance.

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Andrew is with us in Chicago. Hi, Andrew. How are you?

>> Good. How are you Dave and Ken? >> Better than we deserve. What's up?

>> So, um I just got a quick question basically regarding investments. So, my wife and I uh we've been married for going on three years now. We've got a 5-month old daughter. We've uh worked through the first three baby steps, paid off everything except for the house. Got our three to six months saved and we both invest into our 401k through like our workplaces and we're just looking like where do we go next to get to that like 15% that you guys recommend?

>> Okay. So, you maxed your 401ks?

>> Yes, sir. I am um I match at 3% here at my work and my wife is same with uh her um employer through her school.

>> Now max means you put all you can put in not up to 3%. >> Sorry I I thought you said match my >> No, I'm sorry. Max. Uh so have you got a

401k that has a Roth option?

>> It does not. No, that that's what I was going to ask about. >> Okay, so here's the here's the thing we found out. Match is best. So get all the match you can. And you've done that with your 3%. Does your wife have a match?

>> I am 90% sure it's the same at match at 3%. >> Perfect. That's easy. That means we still need to put 12% of our household income away somewhere. What is your household income?

>> Um roughly um probably right around that

90,000 a year roughly.

>> Okay. All right. Cool. So let's 15% is

um you know 14,000 and some change, right? And so, and we're already putting

3% away.

>> So, let's call that 3,000. So, let's just say we need to put another 10 or 11,000 away. You both can do a Roth IRA

and just go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smartvester Pro.

>> Okay? >> And click on Smart Veester. You'll be introduced to one of our Smart Vesttor pros or two or three of them and you can choose which one you want to work with. They've got the heart of a teacher.

They'll sit down, teach you about this, and then show you how to do it, and help you actually create the Roth IRA in some

good growth stock mutual funds. And it

sounds like you guys need to be putting away somewhere around 10,000. So, you could put, you know, five or 6,000 each

into a Roth IRA and have a really good plan going with a 3% over at work. And the 3% over at work also needs to be in good growth stock mutual funds. If you take your options that you're allowed to invest in down to the uh Smart Investor

Pro, when you sit down with them, they'll help you pick out your 401k options while they're getting your IRA signed up. And then if you want to open a 529 for your kids college, you can do that there, too. Very easy to do. And uh

but it's a you know it's like anything the very first time you do it there's a little bit of intimid intimidation but investing is really not that intellectually challenging. There's not that much to it and um but and so once

you get started on it and you start understanding it, you're going to go, "Oh, that's all there is to it. Oh, that's it. No big deal." And and you you'll be just fine. So that's really good question, sir. Very well done.

You're going to be very wealthy. That's cool. Oh, you're getting started early.

I love it. I love it. I love it. Very good. Carlos is in Austin, Texas. Hey,

Carlos. How are you?

>> Hey, Dave. It's an honor to talk to you.

I've been listening to your show since I was 14 and I'm 26 now. So, >> wow.

>> My question is, um, so my wife and I, we

recently lost our baby >> and it's kind of got us rethinking like, you know, what are we doing with our lives? So, I just had a question. Um,

is it a good idea to take money out of our

investments and pay off our house or should we just leave that money and let it keep compounding? And I kind of had hopes of leaving my corporate career and trying to retire and live off of that

>> at 26. How realistic that is.

>> Yeah.

Um,

man, I'm sorry you lost your baby.

Um, >> yeah, >> it's heartbreaking, but >> doing doing nothing doing nothing for the rest of your life because your heart is broken. Um, is a

method of hiding from the pain.

>> And if you don't want to work in corporate America, I don't blame you for that. But we need to be doing something.

>> Oh, for sure. Yeah.

>> You're you're too valuable. You need to be adding value to our lives out here.

>> Yeah. I think it's just how do we do the corporate exit, you know, and my idea was like, well, I want to this year I've been doing stock option trading and

anyways, pretty much quit that.

>> Go ahead. >> With everything going on. Yeah. It's

kind of funny. I asked AI. I said, "What would Dave Ramsey say?" He knew I was trading options. He said something like, "You're playing with fire in a suit dousing gasoline." So, that kind of woke me up. >> Hold on. Let's get it. Let's get the real man's Let's get the real version.

Take >> That's sounds pretty good. I'm going >> That's what I thought. >> I'm going with that. >> Uh I'm I'm curious to know what your current nest egg is, if you have one at all. By the way, you set this question up. What is your financial picture as far as investments?

the cash like 420.

>> How much in your how much in your retirement accounts?

>> Uh well that that's counting my retirement account. >> Oh that's in your retirement accounts. Well you've done really well for 26.

>> But dude you're not ready to retire. I mean you 20 not enough to retire.

>> I mean my whole goal or dream I guess was like oh you know if I keep doing the stock option trading I can you know create a new income and leave my corporate job. But >> yeah, I think you do need to create a different income. Not there.

>> And I think you do need to leave the corporate job after you have created a different income. >> But I uh but I don't think you need to retire.

>> Yeah, >> you're you don't have enough money to retire, >> right? That's kind of the problem I was facing. >> Here's a fun exercise. >> Good year. But >> I I'm I give you my book. I'm going to give you my book as a gift. Find the work you're wired to do. It has about a 20minut assessment in it. It's going to spit out uh with the help of AI a really

good job description where you can use what you do best to do what you love to produce results you care about. And I'm going to tell you, it's a great exercise in this time of hurt, but it's also going to set you up because because I think you know the answer. I don't have time to pull it out of you, but I think there's a couple ideas that if you could make a smart financial transition from where you are today to where you want to be, I think you would pull the trigger on it. And I think that's the kind of life you're looking for.

So hang on, we we'll give you that book.

yourself, who are the people I really want to help? What problem or desire do they have? And begin to lock into what

your why is as it relates to work. And I think you'll find it'll help you heal as you see that uh even though this is a devastating loss, you and your wife aren't on the shelf, you will recover from this pain in time. And I think this

pain will inform you, both of you, and how you live your life going forward and begin to look to the future as you heal.

>> Yeah. I I would not um spend my energies

trying to escape. I would lean into my marriage relationship really hard and cuz she's hurting as much or more than you are. And I would talk about that. I

would talk about, you know, what who have we got to see to help us process and work through grief? What is the

process there? Because this is a new experience and it's a difficult experience.

And um not working is not going to make

it all feel better.

that that's the problem. And so I think you're barking up the wrong tree on that part.

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com/ramsey not in all states. >> Today's question comes from Bobby in Idaho. My financial adviserss tell me I need long-term insurance for estate planning purposes. I'm 50 years old and he told me that a term policy may not reach out far enough considering my age and that a whole life policy would be permanent.

I'm leaving a home to one of my children and would like to leave the other children my life insurance proceeds. Which type of insurance would you recommend? Uh, well, I'm going to get out of the way because, you know, Dave's not said a whole lot about whole life, but in the past, and I feel like this is a perfect time to let you maybe uh hit a teed up ball down the fairway, but we would always say term life. Tell them why, Dave.

>> Yeah.

>> That's right. >> You have an insurance agent.

Financial adviserss don't tell people to buy whole life.

None of them.

Everybody in the whole financial world

thinks whole life is crap except the people that sell whole life and they're life insurance agents that sell whole life and they're dinosaurs.

They're dying off because people have learned to add in modernday America. So,

um well, here's what I would recommend. I would recommend whatever money you are going to put with your life insurance

agent that instead you actually get with an investment advisor and put that money into like a real investment. Life insurance is not an investment. Life insurance does not leave an estate.

We're not trying to leave your children wealthy by you buying life insurance.

Bad choice. much better off take what you were going to pay in premiums and just use it to become wealthy and leave that wealth to your kids. If it's not as much as the policy and you die too soon, oh well, your kids are going to have to be on their own. Oh well, weren't most of us? Hello. So, you don't leave someone wealthy with life insurance, whether it's term life or whole life.

Period. You certainly don't do it with whole life. And so, um, no, you know,

the only reason you carry life insurance is if you have a family of children at home and a wife or a husband at home that need to replace your income if you die. You are beyond that. And this person is just trying to sell you some crap.

And so, you need to do what's known as run away from this person. And I don't

think you need life insurance at all, term or anything. I wouldn't tell you to do that based on your question. I would go a different direction completely.

Beiju is with us. Beiju is in Long Island. Hi Beiju. What's up?

>> Hi Dave. Uh great to talk to you again.

>> You too. How can we help?

>> Uh when my dad passed away last year, he left my mom $96,000. No problem. Um she

has she had brain surgery, so she's not all there. So I convinced her to put the money into an autorenewing CD with my brother >> and in October >> Oh. So we wouldn't touch it. And >> with your brothers.

>> Yeah. >> Why? >> Cuz she only has two sons. So it it would we we thought it'd be like an easy split putting in a CD.

>> I I didn't think of anything else.

>> Okay. I don't know why your brother's on it. That's what I can't figure out. So what happened? How can we help? >> Oh, yeah. So um in October we had a

falling out and he kind of separated himself from us >> and you and your mom.

>> Uh my mom. Yeah. Oh, okay.

>> And um after the falling out, my mom, we were kind of like, "You think he took the money?" And I was like, "Mom, it's in a CD in both our names. He can't." >> Yes, he can. >> But it turns out he took it. Yeah.

And he took it out in March. So, we were like, "Oh, what do we do?" And I'm like, "I don't know, M.

>> I'm sorry. We're worried about pissing off somebody that stole $96,000 from their widowed mother.

>> I couldn't care less if he's pissed off.

>> I want to put him in front of an 18-wheeler.

>> Yeah, that's like one emotionally.

>> What a bum.

>> Yeah. back in March compared to the fight in October. I was like, whoa, he kind of planned this.

>> Yeah. >> My mom and I kind of talk about it and stuff like that, but you know, we're like, it's gone.

>> Okay. So, have you talked to him since you discovered he stole your mother's money? >> No, he he separated himself.

>> I know you, but you don't you don't have his phone number.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, >> but you didn't call him and say, "Hey, you stole mom's money." >> Oh, I I did that. I What did he say? And I was like, "Hey, who's he turned everything back on us saying, "Hey, you did this. You can't have everything." Like, >> "It's not you. It's not me. You took mom's money." >> Yeah.

>> Okay. So, you do whatever you want to do. Um, Wow.

I don't know because you guys were so dumb. You put his name on it if it's really stealing or not. Ethically and morally it is. I'm not sure it is legally because his name was on the account. Did he fraudulently sign her name or did he just sign his name and took the money out?

>> Um, when I went to the bank, they just told me one person can take everything out. >> Yeah. Okay. So, it was just a joint on the account. It wasn't Yeah. So, he he technically had anything legally wrong.

Um, >> yeah. >> I It's March. It's been a year. My guess

is the bum has spent the money, don't you think?

>> I I couldn't even tell you. I mean like we think >> Well, I mean, what would you think if you were going to guess? >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, based on how we know him. Yeah.

>> Yeah. He spent it.

>> So, your mom's completely cold broke now?

>> No, she still has uh income from disability and social security and stuff like that, >> but I mean, she didn't have any money >> and that was um Yeah, she has a small checking account like 14,000 in there. Um but not

in you know and she didn't have any plans for the 96 and it's supposed to be for the both of us anyway. It was just that he took it all versus half and took it now versus after her passing.

>> Is she ill? How old is she?

>> Uh she's 81 and um she had a she had a

brain uh tumor glyobblasto. They got the majority of it but it kind of left her worst there.

As sad as this is, Dave, I don't know if it's worth the money and time to try to get nothing. I just don't know if there's anything to get from him. >> Yeah. I mean, your only option here is to hire an attorney and pay them to go after him. And but you can't attorneys

and courts don't make people have money when they don't have money. And if he's spent it all, it's just gone.

And even if you won a lawsuit, you can't get blood out of a rock. Right.

>> Exactly. >> And so you're going to spend you're going to spend $10,000 >> chasing your mom's money. I don't care

whether you or your brother got any money. I couldn't care less. Y'all are like grown-ups and you should be taking care of yourselves. But I I do care that he stole from his widowed mother.

It's like a new level of scum, you know.

And so, uh, you know, on that basis, you you have to decide you have two options.

One is you just throw up your hands and say, "Forget it. It's not worth it. It was a dumb thing to do to put his name on the account, which it was a dumb thing to do. And, uh, I'm just going to forget it and I'm going to walk away because there's nothing I can do about it anyway." Or you could spend $10,000 and never get a dime or might get a little of it if you sued him, maybe.

>> Yep. you know, but I >> you know, I don't um what would I do?

>> As painful as it would be for me, I would just walk away.

>> Okay. My mom has the same thing cuz she doesn't want more trouble at this point.

She just wants >> Well, this guy's not worth I don't care if we have trouble with this guy or not. This guy you want trouble with. He He needs to go away. Way away and stay away. I He He doesn't want to see me

again if I'm you. This is not good. Not

because of what he did to you. I couldn't care less what he did to you.

But you just I mean there's a couple

things in the Bible you don't steal from. Okay? Widows and orphans. And when you look that up, the things that happen to people that steal from widows and orphans, it's really nasty. This is this is a Bible thing you don't want to get across. Okay? And so I I don't want to be this guy. He's in he's in God's crosshairs. It's bad. Wow.

Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it. And one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance. >> That's a gut punch.

>> And Oh, you're telling me. And for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up. Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. >> Take care of your dad gum family, man.

>> Term life insurance can replace income, pay off debts, cover funeral expenses so your family can actually have the opportunity to just be sad. Yeah.

>> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

Chip is with us in Atlanta. Hi Chip. How are you? >> Fantastic. Dave, Ken, I hope y'all are doing well today. >> Better than we deserve. How can we help?

>> Well, you know Dave, I've had the blessing of being married 30 years. No, 30 years. So, I can't even get it right.

Retired 30 years, 20 some odd years. But because my wife introduced me to you many, many years ago, I thought she was having an affair, but it was just Dave Ramsey she was listening to every day.

>> Who is this Dave? >> Got me some round glasses and a goatee.

No, I'm just kidding. Just seem to be that way. But, uh, we we've also been teaching financial peace university for many years and making a difference in people's lives and we appreciate it and graduated from SCMT this year. So, >> wow.

>> Uh, a lot of thank yous for these things, but really my call is uh on the retirement. So, I've been with a big phone company for 30 years, and as you know, the big AI and everybody else kind of pushes us out the door. It was kind of time to go.

So, I'm still going to be doing some work. >> Good for you. >> Uh, just helping people and trying to make a blessing and a difference in their lives. Got an NFL player that was broke to zero and trying to get them out of debt.

That's terrible, but that's what we can do. But the question is is when it comes to the retirement planning of funds and I've talked to some of your smart investor pros, you know, I feel like I'm in the toothpaste aisle, Dave, because you know, people want me to do index funds and ETFs and mutuals and annuities and bonds and oh my and I feel like a deer in the middle of hunting season.

>> Well, the different ones are different different brokers. So, you have your major brokers that I'm talking to.

They're fiduciaries, but I'm also talking to financial planners through my church that are quote unquote qualified, certified. They may not be vest pros.

And none of your pros have sent me in any weird direction. They've given me some good advice, but like I said, it's just a lot of confusion with the ETFs, the, you know, mutuals, the bonds, and you know, the biggest one was, you know, one of my uh financial planners wanted me to put a million and a half in an annuity.

>> How old are you?

>> I'm I'll be 60 in April.

>> Okay. And what size is this nest egg?

>> Uh, we've got 2.2.

>> Okay. Good for you. Good for you. Okay.

>> Good for my wife. She's the one that kicked my rear. >> All right. Well, um, you know, I the the

Let's just quiet all all the noise. Um,

I don't do any of the things you're talking about. >> Yeah, I know. I'm 65. We don't teach it either. >> I'm 65, so why would you?

>> Yeah, I'm in agreement.

>> Okay. Well, that that pretty much shuts up everything. This is what we teach.

You have your four buckets. >> My personal, you know, mutual fund

portfolio with my Smart Investor Pro is

1/4 in aggressive, 1/4 in international, 1/4 in growth, and 1/4 in growth in income. all with long track records. I

hardly ever change funds. I buy funds

that perform as well or better than the funds in their same categories and they almost always do and I just don't worry

about it >> and they just and they just grow. I mean, the S&P was up 17% this year so

far and my funds are up more than that.

>> It's been a crazy couple of years.

>> Yeah. So, I mean, why do I need to do anything else? Mine's all been converted to Roth over the years. So, it's all growing taxfree. It'll all be left tax-free in the inheritance. There's no

RMDs on Roth. So, I'm completely free of

tax and free of tax constraints and I

don't touch any of it. I don't need any of it. It's all just growing more and more and more and more. And um it's very

simple. You do not need bonds. You do

not see the bond thing is based on a a

theory called asset alloca allocation.

And the theory of asset allocation is is that as you get older you should take less risk. And the problem is is that the financial planning community some of them have

uh overindexed on that theory to where they take a 60

year old and start putting him in bonds.

Now, if you don't smoke, you're not obese and you're fairly healthy at 60.

The data tells us you're going to live to 90 on average. So, that means these

morons are putting you in bonds for 30 freaking years. That's stupid.

>> Agreed. >> Okay, then why do we why are we even entertaining this?

>> As I said, I'm like looking at the toothpaste aisle and I should know better. >> Yeah. I mean, your teeth are clean and your breath smells good. Just keep using the one you've been using.

>> There you go. Just, >> you know, I mean, it's that simple. It's um Yeah, there there's enough there's enough opinions out there in the financial world. They're like armpits.

Everybody's got one. It usually stinks.

So, um you know, it's like,

>> well, I think this is, you know, this is actually an interesting this is a great guy. But here's a guy who has taken our financial training, has lived out the principles, he gives his wife a lot of credit, and yet he was allowing all of the flashy sales pitches, what he kept calling the toothpaste aisle to create some doubt. And I think that uh I appreciate him calling you, but I think this is important that everybody rewind

and listen to what Dave said because these are facts and how the stock market has performed over decades. And so it if

you can return to the fundamental facts of the investment strategy that Dave teaches and that we teach here, it's a

nice re it's it's a nice reminder. So write it down, save it, and listen to it when people come at you with all these pitches. >> And I think it's important to to say that not only is this what we teach, we've taught it for 30 years, but also it's what we do, correct? I don't have like a Dave plan and then a plan for the little people, right? >> You know, there was a financial person that was big in the news for years ago and um h had their portfolio on Money

Magazine and they're like, "Well, that's not what you tell people to do." And and the person said, "Well, well, you know, I'm in a different situation." >> No, I'm I'm not in a different situation. I'm same situation all y'all are in. >> You eat what you cook. >> That's it all the time.

I kill it. I drag it home. I eat it. It's that simple.

and and then I tell y'all exactly where the deer are. Let's go get one. You know, I mean, come on. This is not this is not this is where the ducks are.

Go get you a duck. I mean, what what is it you want? I mean, so it's not a this is not a thing.

way, there's not that you know, there's no secrets of the rich. No. And I want

to point out it's not a suggestion, Dave, >> that's kind of worked out for you. It's worked out for everybody who's ever adopted that plan. It is a solid

strategy. those four types of funds.

>> Never had anybody call me and say, "I did this for 25 years and I hate you." >> Right? >> Never had that hate mail. >> Correct. >> Most of my hate mail is on people who think something's going to turn out some way and they don't like the suggestion

and they've never done it that, you know, and that's where the hate that's where the trollers come from, the the trolls. And so I get to be Billy Goat Gruff, you know, and so that that's it.

But the um you know, if you actually do

the crap we teach on this show, you actually are going to be where Chip is $2.2 million at >> at 60 years old. This is this is,

>> you know, you're you're not going to have 40 million in Bitcoin,

but you're also not going to be bankrupt. So, you get to choose which one. What what game do you want to play here, boys and girls? But we eat what we cook. I mean, we cook what we eat. We eat what we cook. We We are not in here telling you to do something and then we don't go do it because we've got more money or whatever. I didn't hit a certain point and quit doing the stuff.

I hit a certain point and did more of the stuff. You know, it's like this is fun. Let's do it again. I mean, it's called touchdown.

This how you score a touchdown. I want to score another one. Let's do this again. Let's do this again.

Let's do this again over and over and over and over and over again. Rinse and repeat. My pastor was making fun of me. He said, "Dave, you say the same thing over and over." over and I said, "So, do you >> fair point?" Uh, you know what, Dave?

I think it'd be awesome. Hit the four funds. Hit hit our core financial strategy for people so they don't have to rewind. This is how much we're going to serve people.

>> A fourth in growth, a fourth in growth in income, a fourth in international, and a fourth in aggressive growth.

with the longest possible track record, preferably 10 years or more. If you're buying an independent mutual fund for an IRA from your Smart Investor Pro, like a Roth IRA, you definitely can choose funds that are longer than 10ear track record inside your 401k. They may or may not, but get good long track records. A and then, you know, look at them once a year and go, "Wow, look at this.

This is what's happening." And some years they go up, some years they go down, but most years they go up, and some years they go way up.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of Front Row Seat, a long form interview program on Ramsey Networks. Absolutely incredible. He's my co-host. Alex is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Alex. What's up?

Hey, Mr. Dave. Uh, how you guys doing?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Awesome, man. Uh, it is truly an honor to speak to you guys. Uh, I just want to say that uh I hear you uh every morning

to and from work and I just got to say I

think you have you have changed my life and and I haven't even did my my uh

debtree screen yet. Uh but uh

>> uh I have a quick question. I need uh some advice. I need to know what to do

what I promise that I did my 14-year-old

two years ago. Uh she was 12 at the time

and uh I told her that uh I would do her

sweet 15 and her sweet 15 is 5 months away. It's

right around the corner. I was kind of hoping she would kind of forget about it, but that didn't happen. And uh Okay.

Uh I am 36.

I'm married, four kids. Between me and

my wife, we make 175,000 a year. Uh we

have a paid for rental home that brings

in about 15,000 extra. So that's 190 a

year. Uh the only debt we have is our

mortgage. We owe 230,000.

Uh we have I have 25,000 in my Roth IRA. My

wife has about 60. Uh I got to say that

we I did some not so bright things three

four years ago before you came into my life. And uh I think we're in the right

track now. But this party is going to

cost us around $25,000. And I need to

know >> $25,000.

>> Yes. >> For what? For a 15y old.

>> It's a It's a sweet 15. It's something big that we do in our culture. Uh how we

were raised. And at the time when I promised it, >> I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm so confused. What culture are we talking about?

>> Uh I'm a I'm Latino. I'm a Hispanic.

>> Well, let me let me go deeper real quick. Go back when you were a kid. So I

mean 25 30 years ago. What did the part what did this traditional 15-year-old party consist of? >> Now, like when you were a kid, >> describe the party >> cuz your mom and daddy didn't spend $25,000 on your sister.

>> Uh, no. Spent closer to like 9,000. Uh,

but that was it consists of >> a venue, uh, a band decorations. The

dress alone was like $3,000, which my

brother paid for it already.

Your brother paid for your daughter's dress. >> Yes, she's uh my brother's my daughter's godfather, so it's kind of falls on him

when and uh he did the purchase of the dress already.

>> Okay. You didn't answer my question though. Like what did it cost? What did it cost when you were a kid?

>> Uh maybe 7 to 9,000.

>> How old are you? You said you're 36.

>> Wow. >> Yes, sir. So 20 years ago, you're saying your parents spent $9,000?

>> Yes.

>> And they had they obviously had some money.

>> Uh no. Um I can I can say that uh uh we

don't have a Dave Ramsey in Spanish for

us guys or for the guys who don't speak

English or don't understand, you know.

>> Well, how they pay for it? How they pay for it? They just they just worked. They

just worked non-stop. That's that's all I remember my dad just working non-stop and that's how they did it.

>> Okay. So, well, let me let me move that over into the land of greeningo for a minute to try to relate. All right.

>> Okay. >> Um, so it's, you know, it's normal or

traditional >> Yes. >> in the Anglo community for me to pay for my daughter's wedding.

>> Mhm. >> Okay. What is not dictated by the

tradition is what we spend.

>> Correct? >> It would be commensurate with common sense and with our income.

Okay? >> So, um

um you know, you've got to decide in in context of your world what is

reasonable. The reason you're calling me is it feels unreasonable to you.

>> It does. >> The amount, >> not the tradition.

>> The tradition is very normalized for you. You made that clear. I got it. I got it. I learned something today that I didn't know. Okay. It's very normalized for you. And that's fine. I The tradition of me paying for my daughter's wedding is very normalized for me. I didn't think anything about it. But also didn't spend money I didn't have. And I didn't and we didn't go uh spend money

that was crazy as a ratio just because I was guilted into it.

>> And this feels very much like you the language you're using around describing this. You sound like a man who is trapped.

>> I honestly feel like that cornered.

That's exactly how I feel.

>> And I have trouble as a dad being cornered by my teenager. It's quite the other way around.

>> Yes. Does it?

>> I do the cornering. They don't.

>> Yes. >> So, >> I guess it it makes it she it makes it hard on on me to make that call because

>> uh she is close to perfect. Um she helps

with straight A kids.

>> That does not earn you the right to visit the land of stupid.

>> Yes. >> That's not what we're doing. So, I think you sit down and you say, "Honey, I love you. I'm proud of you and who you are.

As per the tradition, two years ago, I promised that we were going to do this. Your uncle has bought the dress. We are going to have a very nice party. And here is the budget that I am setting for

the party. You don't get to set it.

You're 15.

>> Yes. >> You don't get a vote. You just get to come.

That's how it works. Okay. And so when Rachel came in and said, you know, Winston came in, asked for my permission to marry Rachel. We sat down. We said, "Okay, here's what we're going to put towards the wedding." We didn't say, "How much do you guys want?" And they

were like grown-ups. They were adults coming out of college. They weren't 15y olds. So, you know, honey, I'm going to help you with your car.

I'm going to decide how much that is.

You don't tell me with my money what I'm

going to do. And so, I don't know what's reasonable here. Maybe 25 is reasonable, but I'm not going to be held hostage

by outside forces in my own freaking

house or by a 15-year-old

or even by a tradition. Now, I may want

to honor the tradition because it's part of who I am and part of my cultural history and makeup. I don't have any problem with that at all. I wanted to honor paying for the wedding. You know, it might be time to learn what a potluck is. >> Have the family bring a dish to pass.

I'm okay if you cut it in half. I'm okay if you said or if you said 15. I'm just not okay that someone else is setting the number. >> Yeah. He just ran. He's like like somebody point a gun at him or something said you're doing this. No. No. So, I'm

going to flip the power structure here a little, Alex. That's that's where you need to go. And then you can honor your wonderful daughter in context with the

culture.

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Emily is with us in New York. Hi, Emily.

How are you?

>> Hi, good. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> Uh, so my question is about if my husband and I are financially prepared to start a family or if we should wait a little bit longer to be responsible.

>> You're ready.

Um, maybe I would you like the background or is it out of blanket answer?

>> Uh, I'll give I'll I'll take the background as a courtesy. But here's the thing. We don't tell people to not have babies due to debt.

>> We tell them to not have huge numbers of babies. But, you know, your first baby, start a family is a wonderful thing.

It's the best thing you'll ever do while you're alive. And um we don't tell people to not do that because of a certain dollar figure around it. But let's hear it and I can give you some reassurance. How much debt do you guys have? >> Okay, so we actually um just have 30k of

student loans that are completely interest free between the two of us.

>> Okay, cool. And uh and what do you is that your only debt?

>> That's our only debt. >> And what is your household income?

So our that's the issue is that so our

household income is um $120,000 of a

base salary uh with $50,000 in equity

and that's >> my equity mean >> equity means so it's basically just registered stock units paid out quarterly because my husband works for um a large company and that's part of their compensation package. So, he can cash those out how often?

>> He can cash them out um whenever after

they vest. Like there's a vesting period. >> How long do they take for them to vest?

That's what I'm asking. >> Um this year it'll vest at the end of

the year and then after that it's quarterly. >> Oh wow. Okay. So fif So he makes $170,000 a year including his stock bonuses. >> Yes. But not this he won't make that this year because he just started with that company. Um, we're also both 24.

Uh, so there's a few considerations. We just recently got married. Um, but we're living in New York City and our rent is crazy. We don't have a car. We're our budget despite the salary is pretty tight. We don't have a lot of free cash every month. Um, and we are invested.

>> That's the problem is that we actually had to move to the States for this job for my husband. So, I had saved him and

I together had saved about 150k before we moved here. And then I had to give up my job thinking I'd be able to get another job, but the immigration restrictions on what jobs I'm allowed to work have been so tight that it's been a few months and I have nothing. So, before we moved here in our home country, I was making about 80k and now I'm making nothing. And I feel like I'm just kind of sitting around at home and I've always wanted to be a mom and I've always wanted to be a stay-at-home mom.

and we're like, do we just start a few years earlier than we thought we would or should I >> So, are both of you on He's not on a green card. What's he on? HB1.

>> Um, no. He's on a a TN visa, which is

because we're from Canada. Oh, >> okay. Both both of you are from Canada.

So, you're on a green card?

>> Um, no. So, we'll work towards the green card process eventually if we want to stay in the US long term, but right now he's just on TN and I'm on a dependent spousal visa. >> Okay. So, what is the plan? Are you planning to stay or not?

>> Um, we'll see what his business requires. Um, as it's more of a following a passion for work thing than it is about immigrating somewhere specific. So, if the company requires him here, we'll stay here. If they require him in Canada, we'll go to Canada.

Um, >> what can you do right now? >> That's another factor. >> What kind of work can you do? What kind of work can you do that is immigration allowed?

Let me let me let me rephrase. You told us there were a ton of restrictions. So I'm wondering what kind of work can you do that's not restricted. >> Yeah. So to try to explain so basically

you can get a visa if your work aligns

with exactly what you did your undergraduate degree in. And I did my undergraduate degree in a science and then I had been working in consulting and project management and a business role before we moved here. And none of those qualify for a visa in the United States because it has to be a very specific technical job. Like my husband's an engineer, but project management does not qualify.

But I don't have any technical science experience despite my degree. So I'm having a really hard time finding a job that I'm legally allowed to work because I never plan to move to the States. Him and I now.

Does he have health insurance?

>> Yeah, he has really good health insurance. >> Okay. All right. And it will probably transfer were you to go back to Canada and have great health insurance there, right? >> Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So, we'd be fine. And with all the health care stuff, it's more just I don't I hear all the time,

>> oh, you don't need anything.

>> Three years three years from today, you will not be in this situation.

>> Correct. Once if we get a green card, >> something's going to happen. You're either going to get a green card or you're going to go back to Canada, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, so this is a temporary, this

income is a temporary thing based on all the story that you've told us. And if I woke up in your shoes and you guys both want a child and God wants you to have a child, I would go have a child. That's what I would do. And there's, you know,

but do I want to be irresponsible and say neither one of us are working? No, I don't want to do that. or do I want to be irresponsible and have uh you know 10

kids and we make $30,000 a year and can't figure out a way to feed them. That's irresponsible too. I wouldn't want to do that. But to have a child when you're making 120,000 and you've got an uncertain immigration process looking in front of you in the next 5 years, I would definitely live my life.

I wouldn't put my life on hold for his

company, which is in a sense what we're doing.

And so no, I wouldn't do that. Uh uh and

and I think you can afford it and I think you can make it and you know you've got labor and delivery covered and you know babies are not as expensive as everybody acts like. It's not the end of the world and I think you guys can pull this off. You do whatever you want to do but that's what we would do at our house.

I I I just am so frustrated for her. I I I just bang my head against the wall metaphorically as I'm listening to this.

You know, here's a law-abiding Canadian.

She wants to work and the the the goofball rules that the government comes up with sometimes makes me want to just scream. >> Yeah. >> You know, because this is an opportunity to work and and if I understood her correctly, Dave, she can't do anything like she can't even go to Walmart and work. >> Right.

Right. She unless it's something to do with her degree, >> right? >> Her degree field. That's what she said.

I don't I'm not I'm not knowledgeable about anything. >> I am not either, but wow. >> Um but it's um it is frustrating. Either way, bottom line is she ends up at home and that makes her say, "I want to be a mom." >> Yeah.

>> I would tell them, get into every dollar, learn how to budget because I know that my parents, they scrapped by I don't know what your parents situation was, but they hardly had any money when I was born and they figured it out. And in some ways, it's a you know, that's a great way to get really responsible.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It just it makes you pay attention and and every dollar is a good way to pay attention. You're exactly right. you're going to make every dollar behave, you know, and you need to anyway, but especially wakes up when you got another human you're supposed to be responsible for. And um that that's a

that that extra responsibility gives us that adults devise a plan and follow it.

Children do what feels good. So, we're going to do this. So, and I you know, I think she's being very responsible asking the question. I kind of poked fun and said, "Yes, just go have a baby." But, but you know, but the uh but I think it's it's a responsible question, which means they're going to be okay.

>> Yeah. Well, you know, I loved she told us how much money they saved before coming to the States. This is a couple that has learned how to be disciplined. It's a lot of money they saved. $150,000. >> Yeah. Yeah. And he's making 170. They can make it on that. This stuff best. You can cash that. Don't hold that stock and stack it up and starve to death. You know, cash that stock in. Take care of that baby. You You'll be okay. Just Just go on. Everything's going to be all right.

Oh. Oh.

In the lobby of Ramsay Solutions on the debt-free stage, Britain and Paul are

with us. Merry Christmas, guys.

>> Merry Christmas. Good to have you guys.

Where do you all live? >> So, we're small town outside of Savannah, Richmond Hill, Georgia.

>> Oh, yeah. Very nice. Beautiful area.

Cool. Well, welcome to Nashville. Thanks for all the way here to do a debt-free scream.

>> How much you paid off? You want to do uh $127,000.

I I want to get it down to the penny.

$1978.

>> I love it. How long did it take take to pay that off?

>> 27 months. >> Wow. And your range of income during that two and a half years? >> We started around 120,000. Uh and we're

knocking on the door 212.

>> Wow. That's a big jump in that period of time. What do you all do for a living?

>> Um I'm a commercial insurance underwriter. >> And I just sell fertilizer to golf courses and landscape companies.

>> Oh, good time to be doing that. Well done. I just Yeah, good for you. So, what kind of debt was the 127,000, >> Dave? We had the the millennial package.

Um, we had u from uh car loans to debt consolidation

loans. We uh >> ELOC. Yeah, that was a good one.

>> Credit cards. >> Credit cards. Uh what else do we have in there? >> Um personal like family loan.

>> Um >> student loan. >> Oh, yeah. Both of us. Absolutely.

>> And IRS. Yep. >> IRS. Oh, even the IRS. We checked all the boxes. And we put a cherry on top.

All right. There we go. So, yeah, we had them all >> at the full package. >> Absolutely. >> The deluxe package. All right.

>> So, what happened uh two and a half years ago? Cuz how long have y'all been married? >> 11 years. >> 11 years. All right. And what happened two and a half years ago that gave this uh little wakeup call here and you say, "Okay, things are about to change." >> Um well, for me, um we were he was just

turning 40. I was about to turn 40. It was around tax season and I was I looked at how much we made and I was like, "This is crazy. Why do we have no money?" Um, and then he kind of had the same wakeup call around the same time whenever we got the heliloc. And so I was just in Goodwill one day and I saw the total money makeover and I was like, "hm, I think I'm think I'm just going to get this." >> You bought the story makeover in good.

>> THAT IS AWESOME.

>> That's the best part of the story. I love it. >> Yep. He read it in about two days and then he told me I had to read it so I read it in about two days and it just kicked off everything.

>> Yeah, we were done, Dave. We uh our septic system went out >> uh and we had to take a heliloc out to fix that. Um >> so that was it for me. Um and she was we were there at the same time.

We both been there a couple, you know, >> apart at different times and we hit that moment together and >> you know through God found you guys. Um >> and you just flipped the switch and went hard >> hard from day one.

There was no one catching up. No one to No one at all. Just the timing was perfect for both of you. >> Sure was. >> Wow. That's that's unusual, but it's very cool. >> Yep. It took a few tries and this one this one is for >> Yeah. What was there a moment in this process where you guys began to very much experience the momentum? You know, we talk about the debt snowball and I'm just curious as a couple who did this.

Do you remember when you felt that momentum like, "Okay, this is starting to pay off. We can see this." >> You're going to love this one. So, we had uh I had a whole life policy um

>> that I was convinced to buy in my 20s.

>> Uh we cashed that bad boy out. Uh paid off the IRS um and then a couple of the small credit cards.

>> Mhm. >> And we saw that number and the margin, you know, the margin started to show up and >> and so that got the ball rolling, uh the snowball, I guess we could say. And um so it just kind of went from there. But, >> you know, just accepting that mistake.

Um, I didn't even figure out how much I had spent on that policy leading into this moment. I just said, you know what, this is a a blessing >> that that money's there and it got us started and and and from there it's >> it's been a long 27 months, but it's gone pretty fast, too, at the same time, if that makes sense. >> What was the hardest thing y'all did during that 27 months?

>> You got like teenage daughters, right? I mean, >> well, I was say we might need to get them on stage to answer that question.

So, um, yeah, our our 17-year-old, um,

day was kind of a cuss word in our household for a little bit. I've heard you say that before and it was kind of true. >> Keep dad out of Goodwill buying books, >> right? There was no more eating out. Um, so that was that was probably the hardest was getting the kids on board.

Um, or just getting them used to it. But now, like our 9-year-old will say for in the store, she'll say, "Hey, is this in the budget, mom?" So, it's she's there now. So, >> and our 17-year-old is determined now to go to college without student loans. So, Hey there. All right.

>> Definitely. So >> that's a breakthrough. Well done. Okay.

So you did change your family tree.

>> We did. Absolutely. >> They're watching and they're participating sometimes grudgingly, but they got it. It did click.

>> We stopped for Chick-fil-A twice on the way up here and didn't have to sweat about it. So it was a good a good change. >> Everybody got a combo? >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Even ice cream, you know. >> Oh, you guys really are debtree if you went for the ice cream.

>> Uh how did it affect your marriage? you

the the easiest way to say it was such a

stressor for both of us, you know, and and money money lead money stress led to

just little arguments that that we don't have to have anymore. There's still stress and there's still life, but >> taking that money stress out of the equation. Uh it's helped us. It's also helped us see that, you know, we can accomplish if we put it together, we can accomplish, you know, whatever we want to do. >> It definitely as a couple for sure.

>> Yeah, definitely. It makes you believe that in that unity and the power of it.

>> Absolutely. >> Yeah. It's pretty cool. Very, very cool.

Well, congratulations. You guys, I mean, y'all are y'all are amazing. This is a power deal. I'm so proud of you.

>> We're excited to be here for sure. >> Who was uh who was cheering you on in this process? >> We had a pretty good group of cheerleaders. Um actually through through this process, uh we took FPU at our church. >> Oh, God. >> And then since then, uh it's Lifebridge Church in Savannah, Georgia. >> Okay. Um since then we've taught one college FPU and two uh adult FPU

classes. >> Wow. Thank you. >> That helped us stay accountable through the process. >> Yeah. Teaching teaching it you have to do it. >> Absolutely. Kind of kind of hypocritical if you don't.

>> They were cheerleaders. Our parents >> Our parents, >> our kids were >> they were part of the time. Yeah.

>> Absolutely. >> Good. All right. >> Well, very cool. Very cool. All right.

So, someone's listening and um they just

had to get a helock to cover an emergency at the house and they're pissed off and they're wondering if they

can really do it. Tell them what is the main thing that you learned in this process that you have to do if you want to get out of debt.

>> You know that just stop doing what you've been doing and start start today.

Um you know, you can you can talk about it. Yeah. And budget. Absolutely. Um that actually budget. Don't just uh talk

about a budget, actually do the budget.

>> But yeah, just start. I mean, really, that's the, you know, we talked about it and talked about it and and we decided it was just time to start. Um, we were done and >> sick and tired of being sick and tired. >> Amen. >> Absolutely. So, that's it. Just just go.

Just you can do it. It doesn't matter what where you're at. Just start.

>> All right. Very proud of you guys. Bring your daughters up and let's introduce them get their names and ages and let them since they had to participate in all the pain, they can participate in the dead free screen. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> All right. So, this is Addison. She's 15. We just had birthdays, so forgive me if I get these. This is Carson. She is nine. And this is Maddie. She is 17.

>> All right. Very cool. That's a beautiful family. Congratulations, you guys. Proud of you. Very well done. Paul and Britain, Maddie, Addison, and Carson, Savannah, Georgia. $127,000 paid off in 27 months, making 120 to

212. And it all begins with a total money makeover from Goodwill. Count it down. Let's hear a debtree scream. 3 2

1. >> We're debtree.

>> Yeah.

>> ROAD TRIP TO NASHVILLE. WOOHOO.

>> Very exciting. You know, it's hard to get three teenage well two teenagers and pre-teen to get excited about doing anything with their parents. Those girls bought in. >> That's good. >> You could tell. I mean, they were really That wasn't like, oh, I got to have to do this. They roll. They got on the program and I love that.

>> Very very cool. Well, what happens is the family trees really change.

>> You could change it with the actual math because you have a huge amount amount of money later and they will have a huge amount of money later. But also it doesn't change unless the people in the family tree are also transformed. So it

all ends here. We're not doing this in this branch of the tree ever again.

Ever. Ever.

Never. It ends. When you do that, it

changes. It's a big deal, you guys. It's a big deal.

Heat. Heat.

Our

scripture of the day, John 15:1 and 2. I

am the true vine and my father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit, he prunes so that

it will be even more fruitful. Tom Brady

said, "To be successful at anything, the truth is you don't have to be special.

You just have to be what most people aren't. Consistent, determined, and

willing to work for it." Amen.

>> Seventh round draft pick. Just a reminder, right? >> Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, definitely one of the goats for sure.

All right. And Sandra is in Houston.

Hey, Sandra. What's up?

>> Hey. Hey, Mr. Randy. Hi. How are you?

>> Better than I deserve. What's up?

>> I'm just excited to actually talk to you since I've been watching for so long.

>> Thank you. >> Um, I have a a problem. Um, I'm a widow.

My husband passed away a year and a half ago >> and uh he was my main source of income

in our household. And I was working at a t-shirt assistant making like 24,000 a year and he was making like 80,000 and you know we were okay but I was in debt and I always wanted to get one of these plans that you have but even he was never on the same page with me so I couldn't do it alone and it's true which is say you have to be on board both of y'all so we never really did any kind of budgeting I handle all the bills but never had help mentally you know from

him just paying us here and uh so he passed away suddenly within 3 months. Uh he had colon cancer and uh and now he's gone and I'm left with all this. And now before he passed away, he did tell me and he apologized. He said, "I know you were right." He goes, "If you ever are in in a difficult situation, I want you to sell the house, but I know nothing about that. I we have a home. We've had it for 21 years. Um it's valued at 420,000 and my balance is 113,000."

Um, people tell me to go get a heliloc, but I just think that'll make me in a bigger hole. >> Um, my question to you is, do you think

it's wise to sell my house and use the

equity to cuz there's like I don't have a lot of credit card debt, but I do have like my lot next to his lot, which he just paid off cuz we had life insurance through his job. Um, but >> he he had life insurance through his job. How much life insurance did you get? >> It was 50,000.

>> 50,000. And you use that to pay off some debts.

>> This is lot 30,000. And yes, we we fell behind in our house because the 3 months that he was in the hospital, I didn't work. There was no money coming in. So I had to pay like almost 7,000 to um

mortgage. >> Yeah. To get caught back up. That was smart. >> Yeah. But then the homeowner association, I was behind on that. I'm still behind as we speak. And now I fell behind to get in my house. I have uh three adult kids, but one does not live.

my oldest two daughters that live with me, but they were a mess after their father passed away. Um, one's a full-time student about to graduate. The other one already graduated. She just started. >> What What do you make now, Sandra?

>> I still make 24,000. It's not >> that What do you do?

>> I'm a teacher assistant.

>> Um, and I >> How old How old are you?

>> I'm 60 years old.

>> 60 years old. Okay.

>> Mhm. And >> how much other debt other than the house do you have?

uh credit card like 10,000. The car we just purchased that I was my other car was the transition was done.

>> How much do you owe on the car?

>> About we got it $11,000 now it's 16,000.

How I don't know the interest and only made one payment on it and I just found out that when I made one payment 420 420

only $30 goes through the principal because of very >> that's not that's not the point. Okay. So you owe 10 and you owe 16 and what else do you owe?

>> Uh the credit cards. Oh, I said that.

Um, my lot is going to cost me like 28,000. >> Your lot my lot next to this. Yes.

>> You own a lot next door to the house.

>> No, no, no. A lot. I'm sorry. It's a cemetery lot. Grace, what do you call it? >> Yeah. We bought a double because I want to be very next to him. And Elm just took care of his. >> It's going to cost It's going to cost how much? >> 28,000. >> $28,000.

>> Yes. Yes, it's very expensive.

>> Yeah, that's a little ridiculous.

>> It is very expensive to die, you know.

I mean, and I just, you know, I I I want

to sell my house, but I don't I've never done that before. I don't know how it works. >> I have no clue.

>> Um my oldest daughter said, "Mom, I'm on board with you." She just got a job. She said, "I will do whatever you want. Let's sell the house and just start over." >> All right. So, you can start over, but you still have a $24,000 income. That's still going to be troublesome. So regardless of what we do, you need to work, we've got to do something to work on getting your income up.

>> I'm also a eBay reseller making like $2,500 a month.

>> Okay. >> That's another 30,000. >> Very good. >> So that means you have a $55,000 income.

>> Yeah. And then his social security um what do you call it spousal? I get like 20 2,300 a month.

>> Okay. That's another 30,000.

>> That's a little different than 24. So I'm not sure. Why can't you pay these bills if you got that much money coming in? >> Because we're I'm behind on my house. Uh the house payment is 1,500 and it's an adjustable rate mortgage. >> How far behind are you?

>> Uh two months. >> Okay. Cuz you have cuz you have 24 plus

60 coming in. You have $84,000 coming in

>> a year. You should be able to pay a $1,500 house payment.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Where's the money been going? >> Well, I would I don't This crazy car I

bought is $420 a month.

>> $225. >> So, you paid the car instead of the house.

>> Uh, no, no, no. I just got the car. I just got it because I had another one I had paid cash for, but it was breaking apart >> and I had to get one and drive time just tricked me into getting this crazy car.

It's a 2014 Chevy. And you know, $420 a

month sounded good, but I just found out that it's just all interest, you know, and uh I wish I could pay it off sooner, but and I don't even know how my income every time we file for income tax, we always get a refund. So, this time I want to get whatever I get, I want to pay it towards the I guess the house, right?

>> I because I'm I'm a I've been here for 21 years and it's uh it's emotionally hard to give it up. Uh, I had a close friend of ours. She came to see as it is right now with nothing. They don't repair anything. We can they'll get we'll give you like 320,000 cash.

>> Mhm. No, >> but I don't want to go and put >> No, that's not that's not necessary. You know, if you're going to do it, get a real estate agent at Ramseyolutions.

It's Ramsey Trusted. Go to Ramseyolutions.com and put the house on the market for full retail. But I don't think you need to sell the house. I think you need to get in control. You may need to sell the car or even throw the keys back at them and let them take it back. Uh but the the house is not the

problem. You're out of control cuz you got $84,000 coming in between the

disability, the 24 his his social, the 24, and your eBay business. And so, hun, you have you have enough to pay these bills. So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to put you on hold and we're going to put you with a Ramsay coach and have them come sit down with you and see if we can't get you straightened out because one of the things our book tells us is to take care of widows. So, we're going to go by the book, okay?

And um you hang on, Christian will pick up and we'll get you set up with that.

one thing, but 24 is not all I've got here. So, um there's a lot more and and

I I and I think it's just um you're discombobulated after the loss of your husband >> and it's hard to get organized and get focused. But I think if we didn't do anything but catch this house up, you catch it up pretty quick.

And if we didn't do anything, I mean, you stop the credit card, stop the car, and just let's get the house, let's save the house, and then let's keep the house current and keep lights on and food, and then we'll worry about what we're going to drive, and later on we'll worry about the credit cards, but let's get this stuff in the right order. You're paying the wrong things, if you have to choose. So, pay the house

and lights and water and food, and then we'll figure out the rest of it. But I think you got enough to pay it all. >> Yeah. You're just gonna have to get on a real tight budget and learn how to run every dollar and learn how to make this money behave.

But I think she can do it, Ken. >> Yeah. And I I think the encouragement is our coach is going to help you. Let's get her into every dollar.

Let's let's get her in there for a year because this is going to walk with you daily. It's like being on the air with Dave and one of the personalities. You have the means to do it. And I think that's what we want you to hear.

You got to come up with, okay, what are my next steps? You can do this. And I agree. I would not sell the house.

So, I think that's an unnecessary move. >> Yeah.

That's a small >> That's a really >> You have a very reasonable thing to go into old age with here and try to get that cleared up. >> Yeah. >> And the how that you got stung on the car and whoever's trying suggesting you buy the you sell your $4 >> $20,000 house for 300.

>> Well, that's not somebody that's your friend. >> We don't do that. So, that puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 278. Your Financial Chaos Ends Today | October 13, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUhPInpHHY8) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:03:55 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by my good friend and best-selling author, Dr. John Deloney, we're taking your calls at8825-55225.

Don't be shy. Give us a call. Get through our phone screener, Christian, and you will be on the airwaves helping other people who might be in a similar situation uh that you're in. So, we'd love to hear from you. Eden is going to kick us off in Kansas City. What's going on, Eden?

>> Howdy, y'all. How are you doing? >> Great. How are you? >> I'm doing all right. All right. So, um, my question is, how do I stop my fiance's mother from stealing her student loans? >> Stealing whose student loans?

>> My fiance's.

>> Okay. So, your future mother-in-law took

the money that your wife fiance took out

for student loans and is using it for nefarious purposes.

>> It it seems so. So, um, last week we

were trying to figure out, you know, hey, what are her student loans going to look like? She transferred from a university to a community college to finish her nursing um nursing program.

And her and we asked her mom because apparently her my fiance's student loans

went to her mom's checking account because her mom wanted to put it from her checking account into my fiance's savings. But here's the kicker. My fiance's savings, she's only a ser. her

mom is the custodial um the custodian and can only allow

with her mom's permission to see her own savings. >> What in the Britney Spears conservatorship is going on here, dude?

Why does she have control of a grown woman's finances?

>> Excellent question.

>> Here's to answer your question. You brother can do nothing.

>> I know. >> Okay. Nothing. Your your fiance does not

have a checking account. She she uses her mom's, >> right? And we we actually changed sorry

we actually changed her all of her funds that were in her old checking account to a new bank because her mom was actually taking little amounts of from her checking, >> right? >> And so we moved we moved we moved accounts. >> Well, hold on. It wasn't hers. It was her mom's, >> right? >> And so her mom was taking money out of the account that she set up with her name on it and just happened to attach her daughter to it.

>> Yeah. And >> I think the frustrating thing is, you know, it was her money. It's her money that's going in there. >> Um, >> she needs to stop putting money in there >> cuz now your fiance is on the hook for loans that she never saw the money for.

Like, did the money even go to the school to pay for the tuition?

>> We that's what we're trying to figure out. So, we know that when she was at um

university, she we know the we know the

amounts went there. Um and she here in

Missouri, we have a thing called A+ where you get your community college for free if as long as you do like, you know, community service hours, right?

And so that's why she transferred from university to use those and to get her um to finish her nursing program at um a

community college um because the same, you know, same title, right? So um we

we we don't know and that's why we were trying to look and every time we ask her mom like, "Hey, how much is there?" She kind of beats around the bush and then gets gets kind of annoyed with us.

>> All you have to all you have to do is um

two things. one, your fiance needs to put a freeze on her credit report so nobody will borrow any more money against her. Period.

>> Mhm. >> She also needs to pull her credit report and see what else cuz often this kind of behavior doesn't happen in a vacuum.

>> Right. >> So if mom >> and we did >> we did pull the credit report um and I actually have the breakdowns of I think there's four or five individual loans.

We just can't see if they were cash to um the university or community college or not. So you need to contact those institutions. >> Yeah. Get a balance and say, "Hey, was this do I have any past due bills?

Were all these things paid? I need receipts for all this." You basically need to be your own forens forensic accountant and go back through everything and figure out what was paid, what was owed, what are all the receipts, how much loans did we take out, and then there also needs to be this come to Jesus conversation with mom cuz she's essentially committed identity theft and fraud, >> right?

>> Well that's over being >> listen homie that ship has sailed.

>> If your mother-in-law or your future mother-in-law is is enough money to steal from her daughter Christmas is over brother at least for a while. So you have to let that ship go.

I'm also going to tell you this. You have to be your your fiance's chief supporter. Not you dragging her around

through a Law and Order episode.

>> You're using the words we a lot. And y'all aren't married yet. This is hers. And I know you want to be a supportive boyfriend. You're all in. We're going to build a future together and all that.

But you need to see her also take the

reigns of her own life.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And relationally speaking, if she won't back down to her mother, I mean, if she won't stand up to her mom who's stealing from her, if she won't take this initiative, you're going to deal with this for the rest of your life.

It'll happen with kids. It'll happen with house. It'll happen with everything. So, you all need to have that relationship conversation. >> It's a big old red flag.

>> Huge red flag.

>> I would not get married until we solve this, right? And there's a there's a forever solution to this, >> right? And that's, you know, that's why we're dealing with this now. First of all, we're getting married in 6 months.

Um, and we were like, okay, we know she graduates in December. Let's take care of this. And we have had the brief we we've had have a we have had a conversation like hey I can't you know I can't be there when you talk to your mom because I'm going to be on the bad side and it's going to be like why is your why is your f future husband you know

getting mad about money um and she she

needs to have that conversation with her mom and her dad right >> it's not really her dad but it's her mom and I so we've addressed that we just have to get to that conversation that next point. Yeah.

The other side of this is it may be that

the same lack inability to have this conversation, the same ability to quote unquote stand up on her own two feet.

Um, your fiance, it may be that mom has just been taking care of everything forever >> and this there's there's nothing shady going on. She just deposited the check in her account that she opened up for her daughter when she was 12 and she just kept the same account. And yeah, she buys coffee with it or whatever, but in her mind, she also puts money. Like, who who knows, >> right? >> So, right now, y'all have a story that you can make up on one side that you're dealing with the wicked wisd,

right? Either way, you need to go to the colleges and find out what your balance is. says that should be a two second either look into a portal or a two second phone call. What's my balance?

How much I overtuition? >> And then find out how much has been borrowed.

>> If there's a gap there, then mom needs to come up with that gap or y'all going to either have to decide we're going to pay it or we're going to have to um go contact the the non-emergency line with our local sheriff because my mom stole thousands of dollars from me. >> I mean, I don't want to make it so simple, but I don't want the emotion to get such a big deal like we got to do, >> man.

>> But but listen, Christmas and Thanksgiving are different for forever.

>> Okay? >> Get that that ship has sailed.

>> All right? >> There's a spectrum here from control freak to criminal. And so your job is just to be a support for her, help her research this, but she needs to take the reigns. She needs to regain control of whatever was lost in her life and have the hard conversations with mom. and you just stepping in the middle of that to be the hero is is not going to play out long term. >> And two other things, don't ever, this is going to sound crazy, don't talk bad about her mom. Talk good about her.

Support her. And the second thing is, man, if she won't have a hard conversation with her mom now, I promise you, she's not going to have hard conversations when the stakes get higher after y'all are married.

[Music]

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[Music]

Kevin is up next in Minneapolis. What's going on, Kevin? How can we help today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Sure.

Um, so my wife and I are currently in the market for a new vehicle and we have enough cash saved up to be able to pay for it in full. Um, but my question is

why would we if if we could just save on or hang on to the money that we have in our money market account and earn more

than what the APR is on the loan.

>> What's your APR on the loan?

>> So, I see my for my research I see anywhere between 3 and 4%.

>> Um, >> what's your net worth? >> New car.

So, our our net worth right now is probably about 700, but um 700,000, but

that includes the the mortgage on our on our house, too. >> What do you mean includes?

>> So, if you did a net worth statement, your assets minus liabilities, >> where would that put you?

>> 700,000. >> Okay. And what's your household income?

>> Uh 200,000.

>> Awesome. >> How much is this car going to cost?

So, our budget, we're we have a budget of about 40,000. So, anywhere between probably 30 and 40.

>> And you're you're planning on buying brand new?

>> No, I'm I'm more of a certified pre-owned type of guy.

>> CPO.

>> Okay. >> Me, too, dude. Well done. >> What kind of car is this?

>> Um, just a a bigger like a Chevy Tahoe or similar car just for a growing

family. >> Cool. Do you guys have any other debt?

>> No other debt besides the mortgage.

>> Nice. And how much money in savings total?

>> Total including that vehicle fund is is probably 75,000.

>> Way to go. So you still have your 35.

Let's say you did pay cash for this. You still have 35 left over.

>> Yep. And that includes that's our emergency fund mostly and then kind of operating accounts for the house and

just cash and um paying off credit cards

and stuff like that. >> Yeah, man. You're you guys have done such a good job. What has driven you to go like I might do the financing on this, might take out the loan because it sounds like you're a Ramsey guy otherwise or maybe you just heard about this. I don't know. I that's why that's why I'm calling in is because I see some benefit in the long term or at least over the life of the loan. Um you know holding on to a four and a half 5% savings account and also having the cash

available if if absolutely needed. Um,

and I know over the life of a a car loan, it's only a couple hundred bucks, maybe a couple thousand bucks, but um,

it is something, you know, it's a stepping stone to being able to say that

I'm a millionaire or debtree eventually, a couple bucks here and there. >> Well, I'll tell you, the way John Deloney and I and our families, the way we just live our lives is we just have this value of like we don't want to owe people anything. And you might make a spread. I think your numbers were a little bit off here.

I don't think you're going to make 5% in a savings account and I think your used car loan is going to cost you more than that over the life of the loan. And I think they'll they'll hose you in a thousand other ways at the dealership when they find out you're financing.

And then the other part is you can't be underwater on a car that you paid cash for. And I cannot tell you how many people have called into the show this week who are five grand, 10 grand, 15 grand underwater on a car um that has a loan on it. And so that's the other part. If you needed to sell it for whatever reason, wanted to sell it, you might be 10 grand in the hole come two years from now.

>> Sure. >> The um >> is there value in just taking the cash to the to the sales guy and getting a discount that way, >> bro?

>> Yeah. Well, it works two ways. So, there's times they'll say, "Hey, you've got cash. I, the sales guy, get a bonus

if of 500 bucks or whatever if you will finance it. Um, can you help me out?" Like, I've literally had that happen before. And then the other day, I took money. This is not the other day, but maybe a few months ago, I took cash and I said, "This is all I have." And

eventually, I mean, they somebody in the in the dealership knew who I was eventually and they're like, "Oh, that's the guy works. He's on the Ramsey show." But they he he laughed and he goes, "You're not going to finance us, are you?" And I smiled and I go, "No." And he goes, "I didn't think so." I ended up getting a killer deal because it was the end of the month and he got a sale that day and they had a car on the lot that

um they wanted to just get off the lot.

So yeah, I ended up getting a screaming deal on it. Um I I want to further what

George said though and I think this gets left out of the the calculation and um

the new ROI for me that I am pretty um

pretty fanatical about is not the

spread.

the the ROI that I look for with my wife on purchases now is peace.

And my my the guy who does banking for

me, my Smart Investor Pro, they all know

that I'll give up 2% on a spread here and there or a potential spread or maybe I can put this in this account and then move it to that account, but then I can I'll give that up just to put my head on my pillow at night and fall asleep.

And not playing those games has I can't tell you, dude. It just gives me so much other like in a in a world of finite

energy, kids, wife, government shutting down, pets heads falling off, all the stuff. It just gives me one big thing I don't got to think about. That's my car.

I own it. Nobody can take it from me.

And like George said, if I have to sell it, go put on the market for 25 grand.

Take a $10,000 bath on it, but it's your 25 grand. You just get it back. You don't have to worry about anything. You know what I'm saying? So that that to me is the calculation I think gets left out a lot from the arbitrage game. And if

you if you came and said, "Hey, I can make 11% in three years on this and the

loan um is 3%."

Now we're talking real dollars and I I

still am not going to ever borrow money.

But I would shake your hand and go, "If that's what you want to do, well played, man." Like it's not how me in my house are going to do it, but I get that.

You're talking about a point or two points maybe, right? And dude, I I'm just telling >> and that's that's where I'm on the fence too is, you know, the money market is not necessarily guaranteed either. And I >> No, I mean rates have been going down historically. We're we're at about 3 and a half% on any given high yield savings account, money market account.

>> And so I don't I think used car rates are also going to be higher than a new car rate on that loan. So I' you'd be hard unless you have like an 850 credit score and you're just playing or something. Yeah. you're not going to get the 1% car loan and even then it's just like what are we doing?

I think we're just playing the wrong game. Um you got better you got bigger fish to fry on your wealth building journey than trying to like you know finesse the system for a percent on a car loan. >> Yeah. I there's also another um and we're kind of using you as a as a teaching tool.

There's also this idea that I can have that car I can sign a promisary note and I get to keep my money.

a false way to look at it because the moment you sign that promisary note, that's technically their money. They're just going going to let you pay them extra for you keeping it in your account for a long time, but you're still going to owe them, especially with a car that's going to go down in value every day you drive it. And so I think it's just shifting. The moment you sign that promisary note, that money in your account is theirs.

You can hold it and you can pay them handsomely for the privilege of holding it, but it's still yours.

>> What do you mean?

>> Yeah. They're going to sue you for the difference of >> the car itself. >> They'll sue you for the difference of what they value it at >> in the future. >> Yeah.

So if that car drops down, let's say there's a huge default that goes through the country and we just got a note this morning that defaults are rising on car purchases across the country >> and then reposs are going up. reposs are going up and suddenly they say, "You know what? That car is worth 25 grand." And so we're going to sue you for $15,000. >> What they do is they'll sell it at auction for whatever they can get for it.

And then they'll come after you for the difference. >> And so you lose the car and you still got to write them a check.

You make 200 grand. Is this household income? Are you both working right now?

>> Yep. >> Okay. Is there a future where your spouse might not work or one of you chooses to not work or stay home?

>> I don't think so. Maybe in my in my wife's mind, maybe. Perfect world, but >> Okay, cool. >> Not in the near future. >> I just I like to make 10-year decisions.

And so, it made it a lot easier when my wife decided to stay home. We didn't go, well, we got the car payments. Our expenses are just high. If we cut your income out, it's going to make things tight.

And so, to live with as much margin as possible is always going to be best. And you'll stack up the cash for whatever other reason. You did a great job saving up this money. So, I wouldn't go backwards now for the idea of a potential spread.

>> Yeah. And thank you for letting us use your situation to teach. Most people aren't in your financial situation. You're doing a great job.

I, bro, I just take a check down there and say, "I want that car for this check.

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Jonathan is in Montana. Jonathan, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hi. How are you guys? >> Great. How can we help today?

>> So, I had a previous marriage that um in

the court case, I requested my business documents. She never returned them. Long

story short, um, for the two years we

owed 23,966.

In the court documents, she agreed to pay her half of it. And

still to date, which we're going on almost 3 years, she has not paid her half of it. And I'm finally at a point in my life where I have a chance to

pay off a bunch of debt. um my fiance

who is very soon to be my

wife. I would like your guys' advice on

whether

if I marry her um if I should just pay the IRS off and deal with a couple of these other debts and just move forward with my life.

>> So it's it's so she owes about um 12 grand 115 something like that.

Yeah, something like that. Um, she filed for an innocent spouse relief and they denied it due to the fact that she knew full well what she was signing.

>> So, are you going to take her back to court and get the money?

>> Um, that's what I was asking is, is it

something where I should just let that one loom or should I just pay the IRS

off so they're not breathing down my neck? And you tell us.

>> You tell us which one sounds more fun.

Uh, taking her back to court actually sounds a little entertaining considering

how the judge left on my side.

Absolutely.

>> So, you'd have to like file a motion for contempt, request a money judgement, and get the judge to force her to pay essentially. >> Yes, 100%. >> And that could take how long? Another year. >> Oh, at least.

>> Your new wife is going to be like, "You're going to court to see your ex again? Cool. Have fun. No, she's she's

fully on board either way. She's actually the reason I got turned on to you guys and how I have made this huge

transformation in my life. On a side

note, I mean, I before I met her, I was

well into $120,000 in debt. And to date

today, I've paid off 77,362.

>> Dang. Way to go. Congrats. Do you do you

have the money to just pay it off today?

>> Um I I've been working my tail off and

as soon as I get these next couple checks from these next couple jobs, absolutely. I should have enough to pay off the IRS and hopefully everything else that I owe to anyone.

>> What would it cost you um

to hire an attorney to go back to court?

Well, my last experience cost me $45,000. So, I'd hope it'd be less than that, but just a rough.

>> I'd hope so, too, considering there's 12 grand on the line. >> So, let's pretend you get it. It's going to cost you five. Someone's going to charge you a $5,000 retainer. They'll file the paperwork and they'll show up on one day of court with you. Okay.

>> Yep. >> So, the question ask, and I I have I'm just made that number up. It might be double that. It might be a thousand bucks. Who knows? Um,

is $5,000 worth it?

Or can you write the check and have this woman out of your life forever and move on with your life?

>> Um, yes to an extent. I mean, granted, that

would net me about seven if she actually

is paying it. >> Oh, sure. No, I'm saying I'm saying five from the um 5,000 from the the lawyer

fees. Here's here's what I'm hearing in my in my head is I'm hearing a conflict

between peace and justice or peace and

ego. And ego and justice can be wrapped up together a lot. The right thing to do is for her to pay her her her half. No question. The judge hit the gavl, said she owes this.

>> Yep. >> And she hasn't. So, it's still on your credit. the IRS is gonna come get your stuff and you have a legal document saying we can unwind all this and we can go through court and get all the friends blah blah. We can do all that. You're right.

>> Yeah. >> I just want you to do the calculation on what peace would cost you.

>> That's where both of us are on it. say

and I have just both agreed that is that

worth my big I think my big question for you guys and you may not be able to answer the question is she owns her

house and me marrying her and still owing the IRS

does that open her up to any

chance of them coming after the house because ultimately that's my goal is to get myself out of debt, pay the rest of her house off to where they can ever.

>> No, I don't think they're coming after your house. I mean, worst case, there could be like a wage garnishment situation. Um, again, I'm not an attorney. I don't know the state laws.

And so, I would at least get in touch with an attorney. It sounds like you want some justice and closure and you want some uh her to pay. Now, what I

might do if I'm in your shoes, I might just go ahead and pay it and be done with it. Get the IRS off my back and then still go to court and get her to pay and as almost like a form of reimbursement. That's what I would do >> because then at least it's off your record. We're done with the IRS. We're moving forward with our new life and wife and we're still trying to get that closure and justice.

>> Okay, I appreciate that advice. Um, I

don't know how much more time we have, but I also had a couple on my big list

of all the debts to pay off. I had one

creditor that refused to talk to me cuz I disputed the charge cuz they couldn't

tell me where the charge came from.

And that one has since gone to court and

of course they got a judgment against me. Nothing I could do about it.

>> How much >> is there a way I can deal with that?

>> How much?

>> Uh $1,268.

>> And was it your debt?

I honestly don't know. During my last um

marriage, I was basically forced out of my house and she had access and was an a

legal signer on all of my cards.

>> I mean, legally, they have to validate the debt. And so, if they can't do that, they'll it'll get tossed out.

>> But if it's a if it's a love seat that she purchased, you're not going to get that money back.

All they all they can send me and to date all they have sent me is an invoice

for the debt not saying when or where it was spent. There's nothing to actually really validate it.

>> Again, >> it's not going to hold up in court if they can't validate it. And so it's going to get thrown out. If you want to continue down, you're already going to be in court. It sounds like might as well just hang out there. Clear some more debts while you're at it. What other debts do you have?

>> Um the same creditor company. I have one for 9,866, which as soon as I get paid for this next big job, that one is going away.

Um, >> what if you what if you called that same creditor and said, "I'm going to send you 10,500 bucks. Can we just be done with all of this?" >> Um, that would be ideal.

>> Call them and tell them that I'm going to clear this entire debt. You still pay for 10 grand and you're going to mark this paid in full.

>> Okay. Do you think there's any chance with them having a already one judgment

against me on it? Um, >> of course there's always a chance. >> Negotiate it. >> Of course. There's always a chance. But if you got $10,000 and you're about to write him a check, my gut tells me they might take that or they might think, "Oh, he's got more money." Or what? Who knows? Here's what the calculation I want you to do. You're so close to being free. Like you're unhooking these chains from you and now you're at the very end and you're starting to count the chain links and you're forgetting the big picture.

>> Yeah. >> I I I I can be if somebody's looking at

the way I live my life, they could say, "That dude's a sucker." And they'd be right. There's things I would just walk away from because I want peace.

>> Right. >> Right. You have to ask yourself, what is that line for you? If I'm about to get two checks for 35,000 bucks and it's going to clear every debt I have, including this ex-wife who's I'm still waking up thinking about every day of my life, I'm gonna write that check and

brush my shoulders off and go on about my life. But that's but again, that's just me. And I have other friends that would fight. They would spend 50 grand to get her to pay her 11. You just have to do that calculation in your head.

Yeah, that's the situation I don't want to be in is where I'm just spending more money just to have to see her in court again. And I I I couldn't agree more

whole wholeheartedly with you on that.

>> Me and my house, we try to solve for peace, bro. >> I'd be done with it, man. You're about to bail yourself out of jail. I wouldn't be trying to get a shorter sentence on good behavior here playing this game.

Just be done.

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Aubrey is in Dallas, Texas up next.

What's going on, Aubrey?

>> Hey guys. Um I have a quick question. I

am I started on October 1st with you guys. I've done my baby step one. Got that out of the way. So I'm starting baby step two. >> Awesome. >> Um and as I as I was reading um the Total Money Makeover. I'm sorry, I'm nervous. I'm shaking. Wow. >> Hey, real quick. Aubrey, can I tell you something? We can Can I tell you something cool? >> I'm I'm really grateful that you're in our gang now.

>> I was looking at the calendar. I was like, we're nine days in and Aubrey is like, she's got Baby Step One done. She's calling the show. Like, you're serious, >> dude. Congratulations. >> I am. I've read The Total Money Makeover and now I'm going with a highlighter and now I'm going back into it and I'm just reading the chapter that I'm in and I've already gotten a side gig. What what brought you here? Like what was going on in your life that you just said enough is enough. October one, I'm out.

>> Um, my 20-y year marriage ended

>> and I have three kids and I want I sat

them down cuz they're older. They're 19 and 16. Twins are 19 and my youngest is 16. And I sat them down and I said, "I want to do better for you guys." So, um I'm sorry I'm going to cry.

So, I sat them down, made them watch the baby steps, um, intro thing with me and made them be on board with me and hold me accountable and made them understand why I was getting a side gig and why I wasn't going to be around as much.

>> All right, so listen, I this is not why you called, but I I I got to say this.

Um, I grew up in Houston where there was a lot of hurricanes and tornadoes. And a lot of times when the lights would be out for two or three days and when the lights were out after a storm came through in the middle of the night, there was always somebody on the street with a flashlight outside and everybody walked towards that person.

>> And right now you're that for your kids.

>> That's what I want to be. I I'm going to get the homeschool foundation thing and no going to sit down and go through that. you are. The fact that you sat down with your kids in the dust and ash after a 20-year marriage ended and you said, "Hey, I'm going to own my part of this.

Here's what I'm going to do moving forward and this is scary and I'm crying." You gave them a gift of seeing you grieve. You gave them a gift of of saying, "Here's what I'm going to do next." You're doing everything right. I want to tell you, I'm proud of you. That's awesome.

>> Thank you. Thank you. has nothing to do with why you called, but I want you to know you're holding a flashlight out in the dark and your kids can see it, and that's a gift right now. Good on you, and we're glad you're with us.

>> Thank you. >> Me, too. >> All right, so what's your question? >> Um, so my question is, when I was reading um the debt snowball portion of the total money makeover, there was one caveat to listing your debts from smallest to largest, and that's when they're super close in number.

And then there was like a little subject in there about interest rates and I am not financially savvy. So I needed help cuz they're super close in number like 50 to 100 bucks close in number for three of them that have all three different interest rates and payments.

>> Okay. Well, I'm I I'll tell you what I'm a fan of. Whatever one has the biggest payment you're that you're going to free up, I would just tackle that one first.

>> Okay. Because if it's 500 bucks for that payment versus 700, well, I'd rather free up a $700 $700 payment to attack the next debt with.

>> Okay. So, it doesn't really matter about the interest rate go by that the way you're tackling this got that much more to the next one. It shouldn't take long in between all >> they're going to be gone so fast. >> Yeah, we're talking about dollars and cents on the on the interest savings.

And we found that, you know, that's the avalanche method is focusing on highest interest first. And almost no one actually does it cuz you have to be a super math nerd, which in that case, you probably didn't go into crippling debt.

So >> the the snowball method is it, you know, tackles the psychology, gives you momentum. So how much debt do you have total?

>> Oh god. Without the house or with the house? >> Without the house. Leave that one aside.

>> Without the h Yeah, without the house, it's about 80 grand.

>> Okay. And what do you make? I make um

with bonuses it's like 94 grand a year and then I just got my 1099 side gig that starts in November. That will bring me starting out that will bring me in four only 400 a month. That's only one patient from a nurse and they're going to give me more. >> Awesome. That's a great side gig. Okay.

So, we're going to call it 100 grand, right? >> Okay. >> Have you done an every dollar budget before?

>> I have. I really I got the premium so I'm I've got that going. Did you pay for it? >> I'm tracking my transaction. I did.

>> We're going to refund you.

>> We got you. >> Oh, well. Okay. >> Will you put it toward your debt if we give you the money back?

>> Yes. And that's why I'm I'm I'm emptying out a storage unit, too. Bringing that back to my garage so I can have that money back to throw it at my debt. Like, I'm I'm seriously cutting the budget like crazy. >> We're so proud. Here's why I mentioned that budget. That budget's going to show you how much margin you have, right? So, how much do you have right now to throw at each debt every month or, you know, your debt snowball?

So, I'm still trying to collect all the data on that with the tracking my transaction so I can be actually precise with how much I spend for like groceries and such like that. Right now, I'm throwing about 800 more. I think there's

more room in there, but I'm just I'm still trying to track every transaction so that I know where to cut the most.

>> It'll it'll take you about 3 months to to level on that. So, don't freak out, okay? They'll take you till about January before you fully or got this thing cooking where you know about what the the groceries are going to be yada yada. So you're good.

>> Right. Right. Right. So that's that's what that's why I did the premium when I got it.

So I was like I need to know exactly especially gas, all that jazz and then and then just start chunking stuff out. All of my side gig is going to go straight to >> Perfect. >> Straight to the debt.

>> Yeah. >> Can you afford this house?

>> No. No, but I've got to get the divorce.

It's not finalized. The divorce has to be finalized before I can >> sell it.

>> Yeah. >> Do you know how that's going to shake down? Are you going to have any alimony

or child support or you know, are you guys going to split the house?

>> No. Child support and then um

honestly I we had the house for sale. It was on the market for 9 months. Didn't get a single bite. Um but now interest rates apparently are going down.

So there's been increased interest, but he's not signing anything right now. And so we're kind and we had to slow down because the kids were taking it really hard. It was too much too fast. So I had to slow that down for my kids mental well-being.

That means more to me. I will sacrifice for my kids mental wellbeing. >> I know. Don't I know.

But it feels like what feels like mental well-being can be disrupted on the other side by drawing this out, >> right? >> It's almost like pulling a band-aid off a toddler, right? It hurts and so you stop and it hurts so you stop. man.

Like, there's just going to be an inherent tension in your house.

>> There is there is some there's some powerful catharsis about just getting this thing over with, >> right? >> So, I don't know. I don't know what slow it down means, but if you have an attorney, I would hire a bulldog and say either he won't sign it or we're going to run this through the court and I want to be in court by this date. um and have the judge know that he won't he wouldn't even sign anything.

He wouldn't play ball. He's just going to try to drag this out. And um yeah, >> I've seen some judges be really compassionate for jerks who who blow people's lives up and then are like, "I'm not going to do nothing." That mean the judge can get pretty costic there. So, I would push that.

He was pausing it. Well, I'm going to say that because I'm I I never put myself first. That's that's a nurse's emmo right there. So, I'm going to he's not he's not a I wouldn't have stayed with him for 20 years if he was a jerk, to be honest.

It's it he said he needed advice before he agreed to the terms of walking away from the house even though he's already moved out, not paying for the house. So, >> yeah, >> it it's one of those symptoms, but it's I I can't really take an offer with his name still on the house without an agreement saying how we're going to split those proceeds, if we're going to split those proceeds, etc. That's kind of where the limbo I'm at with the house on the market.

>> I'm trying, but I also can't afford a lawyer at all. I I would put that as I

would put that as a priority.

>> Yeah. The house is looming in your life and it's a big question mark and I think once that's solved, we'll know how to move forward. >> Is there any equity in the house?

>> Uh there's about 60 grand of equity in the house. >> Okay. You may be able to maybe not, but you may be able to get an attorney who will go through this process with you with a with a guarantee that when the house sells, they'll get their percentage off the off the sale of the house. >> That's true. I didn't think about that. >> It'd be worth having that conversation with somebody. Do >> you have a good real estate pro on this?

I do. It's a It's a local uh local group, but they're they're big in our church. They're big in our band program, big in the community. So, they're they're super awesome.

>> All right. Well, wishing you the best, Aubrey, through this just awful, traumatic situation, and I'm inspired by your attitude towards it all. I'm going to send you building a non- anxious life, my book. I want you to read it, and I want you to use this as your road map for you and your kids moving forward.

>> Hang on the line.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney.

open phones at88255225.

Allison is in Oklahoma up next. What's going on Allison, how can we help?

>> Yes. Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. >> You got it. What's up?

>> Well, hey, um anyway, my my husband Michael and I um he's sitting next to me. He's about to take over for the financial portion. He wanted me to kind of communicate our backstory.

>> You're the opening act. You go first and see if they're nice and then I'll fill in. >> Right. >> Well played, Michael. Well played.

>> I'm a I'm a speech therapist and he's the he's the eye doctor. So we we each have our own strengths here.

>> Well played. Are y'all in Oklahoma City?

>> Uh we are near OK Oklahoma City. Yes.

Just about 45 minutes.

>> Okay. Will you do whatever magic you need to do and just make sure you beat Texas this weekend, please?

>> Right. My husband would love that. He went to undergrad there. Okay, that's I just I just need y'all before we talk, I just need you to make that happen. All right, go ahead with your question.

>> Okay. Well, hey, so the reason we're calling is our family of now five. We just gave birth to our third baby a few months ago. Um to really uh stir up the

joyful chaos a little bit more. Um yeah, so we're currently in the most rigorous, exhausting, yet life-changing seasons of our lives. Um we're we're small business. Um we're small business owners of a new optometry practice that we opened here in our small town.

Um my husband is the eye doctor of the practice and then we opened up the doors a few months ago. Um it's a really good location. Uh we we really haven't even had to do much advertising since it's right here at the heart of this small town that um is underserved with optometry. So it's working out in that way.

husband is working with his father for the first five years out of school. Um, his dad's 75 and just retired this year.

So, um, anyway, we had the opportunity

to potentially take over that practice.

However, uh, our family was not exactly fruitful spiritually in that town. And, um, financially we were doing okay, but the Lord was calling us to do something that didn't really make sense really to anybody else. um if that makes sense. We uh um it kind of almost looked like to a

lot of people were missing out on an easy opportunity to take over an already established uh business.

>> So you didn't take over. You start this new one. >> That's right. We >> And that's going well.

>> It's going well. Um >> so what's your question?

>> Well, so essentially um we're only able

to be open here a couple days a week until we get more patients in the door.

Um, and right now he's working for um an

eye doctor three and a half days a week in a different town just to to make ends meet. You know, we've got to keep the mortgage um paid each month at our house and keep the lights on. >> And you're working in this business or are you at home with the kids?

>> Uh so Fridays and Saturdays um our our

grandparents have been a saving grace for us. We al they al alternate helping out with the kids. So yeah, I I work full-time with my husband on Fridays and Saturdays um to get everybody in and out the door uh with the patients. And so >> Okay. And what are you guys paying yourselves? How much do you make?

>> Well, so that was kind of our question.

We're not paying ourselves anything yet.

And so that that's kind of where >> how are you paying your bills, >> right? So >> his three days a week.

>> Yeah. So three and a half days a week we're paying our he has the opportunity to make commission with his other do eye doctor. So, he's basically still making a 5day salary.

>> Uh, it's it's very it's trying on him.

He sees about triple the amount of patients that he normally would.

>> Sure. >> Uh, but some of that is some of that is starting a new business in a town, small town from scratch. How much did y'all get underwater? How much did you borrow to start this practice?

>> Uh, $200,000.

>> Okay. Are y'all Do you all make enough money to to pay that down?

Uh well, so the loan that we took out,

it only has 2% interest rate. It's through um his dad actually, and he's allowed us to put that on hold um for a

little while. Yeah. Yeah. So, um let me

My husband wants to do the financial portion. So, anyway, I appreciate y'all.

Here he is. >> You got it. What's up, Michael?

>> Is he with us? Is he in the room?

Well, we tried. That was fun. While we lasted, >> did you leave us?

Dude, >> you left us hanging. >> We're still here.

>> Thank you so much. >> One second. >> I was waiting for like some hold music or something. That would have been nice. >> You should have started singing, George.

>> That would have been nice. >> Michael, you there? Put the spreadsheet down, brother. >> Hi. Sorry. No, I was uh trying to take a phone call. A patient was calling us. >> No, you're good. Patients are more important than radio. >> Get to the root of the question here because I still haven't heard one yet.

Okay. Um, so

one thing that I would say for business-wise, I know what the number is

to keep lights on and essentially continue to um stay afloat. Um, it's

right around um $9,400 a month. And so

one question I would have for for business-wise, what how many months would need to be

put aside before because right now we're not paying I'm not paying my wife. I'm not paying myself any salary.

>> And you're not paying the loan. You're not paying the payment on the loan, the 200 grand.

>> Um that one's paused, but I'm still paying the mortgage and the equipment loan that I have. >> Okay. That's all 9,400 for all in right now. And that's not covering anybody's actual salary. Correct. That's just >> that's as cheap as this business is going to run at this point.

>> Correct. >> Okay. And what is it bringing in every month? >> Uh we just started having more patients.

>> Give me a number >> over the last two weeks. Um >> is it going to be 10 grand this month or 20? >> This month it will probably it won't be 20. It would probably be around breaking even around 10. >> Okay. Well, the good news is you don't have to worry about paying yourself cuz you can. So, if that's the question, that was an easy math problem to solve.

Ideally, you cover all of your operating costs, your taxes, federal and state, self-employment, and you have a little bit to throw into growth and self, you know, investment buffer as kind of retained earnings, and you're paying yourselves a decent salary right now.

That's obviously not in the cards. >> A dream retained earnings is 25%, but that's really hard to come by.

>> Okay. If you can have like three to six months of your expenses, you got 30, 40, 50 grand in there, that would be a good starting point >> to, but then before you really start looking at salary and all that.

>> Well, I mean, you guys need enough to to cover your bills. >> You're not eating and service your debts. Do you have any other debt outside of the 200?

>> So, that's the thing. Like, I work for an optometrist outside of me starting my business to pay my like personal bills and to live and to put food on my table.

This is just so until I get full-time

and then it'll be >> How long is that going to change? >> Change. >> Um, so what I'm looking at is if I can be full-time, I would start adding essentially a day here and there whenever I start booking out two to three weeks uh in advance.

>> Do you have any sort of Here here's the thing. You probably jumped off the dock before the boat got in and now you're treading water cuz you got five kids.

You got a newborn. You got six days a week. You got a business that and and your Thanksgiving is going to be awkward this year cuz you owe your old you owe your old man whose practice you didn't want to take on 200 grand. It like there's just a lot going on here.

>> Mhm. >> And so you can't do this forever is what I'm saying. But you're here. You've already borrowed all this money. You've already launched it. I would George tell me I would get really aggressive about marketing, finding people.

>> Get the boat closer to the dock here. And this business needs to be making 20, 30 grand a month just to pay yourselves something. >> Yeah. >> And so you're going to need to figure that out.

And if this doesn't work 6 months, a year from now, we got to close up shop and go, "This experiment didn't work, and I just got to work for someone else right now until we're in a better financial position." >> It may be that wife is also at home doing crazy marketing towards this thing.

[Music]

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[Music]

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>> Today's question is from Meredith in Oregon. Meredith writes, "I'm a divorced mom of three boys who are 24, 22, and

19. I earn about 48,000 bucks a year. My

sons went into the workforce right after high school, and the two youngest still live with me, the 22-year-old and the 19-year-old. While they contribute to the household bills occasionally, they struggle to keep up. When they can't, the responsibility falls back on me.

I've talked with him about paying me a set amount each month that I can count on rather than paying individual bills, but they say they don't make enough money to do so. I know they do, but they

have other money priorities. Thankfully, our home is paid off. How do I communicate to them that I need help financially? I'm not looking to push my kids out, but how do I b balance supporting them while also making sure I don't sink under the weight of all that financial responsibility?

Yikes.

Um,

here's the here's the truth. The reality that is hard to hear, but this is just the truth. Um,

you're keeping your boys around because you want them around and you need them

around financially. What does that mean?

That means they're not getting a chance to go carry the weight of adult

responsibility, of bills, of well, I

just don't have it this month. That doesn't work like that if you have your own apartment because they kick you out of your apartment. They know you're not going to kick them out. They know that.

And so I'm going to quote my friend Henry Cloud who says, "The greatest gift these boys could get is some problems.

They have to understand the weight of the squat bar that is real life. Light bills, water bills, rent, or you don't live here." The second big challenge here, George, is she doesn't have enough money to keep this place.

>> Yeah. It's not to teach them a lesson.

It's out of necessity. >> Yeah. You don't have enough money. >> Both ends. >> So, the second biggest issue here is 48

grand a year isn't cutting it. So, I know your house is paid off and I would do anything I could to keep that house if it's paid off, but if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. You can't afford it. You have a math problem. And so either you have to sell

this house and buy something much much much smaller or rent for a season or you're going to have to find um a job making more than $48,000 a year.

Otherwise, your boys are going to find themselves in this perpetual dance of I

can't leave because otherwise mom's going to get evicted and that's a lot of pressure on them or they're not allowed to leave or what I think is happening is they don't have to leave. And if they don't have to do anything, they're going to act like kids and not do anything, right? And so it's it's hard conversation season here both for them

and I would suggest letting them not letting them telling them they got to leave or they got six months and then you dealing with the reality that my $48,000 a year I can't afford my life

that I'm trying to live right now on the money that I make. >> Yeah. If you need them as renters and you need that income, it just points to a bigger problem that is not the children's fault. >> Correct.

>> So there are two problems here. One, the children need to understand you got to pay your bills in real life. That means the priorities. >> You're getting evicted.

You're >> whether it's with her or with someone else or with an apartment complex, the four walls come first. You got to cover that those as your priorities. Now, at 19 and 22, I had other money priorities, too. Like doing anything other than paying bills.

>> Exactly.

>> But at 19, 20, and 22, I had my own

place. uh at college and then after college, they they didn't care like what

my other quoteunquote money priorities were. They wanted their rent. So, I had to pay that rent or I couldn't live there, right? And they have to learn that responsibility now.

Otherwise, they're going to be the 42 year olds in the basement PLAYING VIDEO GAMES. MOM, MAKE ME SOME MEATLOAF. RIGHT. It's going to be them.

>> Yep. >> And it's it's a hard it's a hard truth to to wrap your head around. And Meredith, let's be honest, underneath all of this is if all three of those boys moved out to start their life, that house would be really quiet and it's lonely and >> and you couldn't afford it on top of >> you can't afford it. So, there's a lot of hard truths staring you in the face that nobody in that house wants to deal with.

That's honestly the only path forward. And I'm going to tell you right now, there's no comfortable way to do all of this.

The uncomfortable conversation will never go away. It's just going to get amplified. As the old saying goes, conflict deferred is conflict amplified.

There's going to come a day when these three boys go get married and they leave you overnight and you can't afford this place or they never leave and you still

kind of different problems, right?

>> So, the conversations are common. I'd rather them be on your terms and directed and intentional by you.

>> I I And again, George, this one I I know I come from a different generation. I sound like I'm an old man. I went uphill both both ways to school in the snow. I get that. I can't wrap my head around

>> not helping mom out if she needs it or what? >> I can't wrap my head around being 24 and still just crashing. I can't wrap my head around, yeah, watching my mom

suffer and I'm living there and be like, "No, dude. I don't have I don't have the money." And her knowing you did, but you

chose to go out with your buddies or you chose to get a fancier new cell phone or whatever. I just can't I can't wrap my head around any of this. And so, it's hard for me to put myself there. But I do regularly talk to the boys whose moms didn't let them grow up and I talk to the moms who have to sell the house that they didn't want to sell.

And it's never a fun conversation. >> I just wonder maybe she hasn't had an honest enough conversation about where she's at financially of like listen, I'm not doing this to teach you a lesson at this point. I'm doing this cuz mom's struggling right now >> and I I need everyone to pitch in to cover the bills to keep food on the table, keep the lights on.

>> Well, I'm going to have to go find other renters who will help me pay my bills because I can't afford it. >> That's tough all around. So, sorry, Meredith. All right, let's get to Amanda in Arkansas. What's going on, Amanda?

>> Hi. Can you hear me? >> Yeah, loud and clear.

>> Hi. So, um, just quick background, my

husband's a teacher, bus driver, and I'm

a disabled vet, stay-at-home mom, and we have six kids. Our kids are getting older, 15 and a half, uh, being our oldest. U, we're debtree beside the mortgage. We invest, we add to their

college funds. Um, my question really is, is it a good idea to sell our home for a lesser mortgage so we can pay it off faster and we could invest more? We could help more with the college funds and all the things that older kids are

needing and starting and you know, we're starting to see the the costs of what it is to have older kids.

>> Wow, that's a big decision.

I mean, you're talking about eight people. How much smaller of a house can you can you'll move into?

Oh, well, so we do love our house. I do think we could get something that's less and still be happy. Um, our house, uh,

we owe like 130,000 on it. Um, you know,

we live in Northwest Arkansas where cost of living is pretty low. I think we could probably go with something that would probably knock off like I'm guessing about 40 grand off of our >> That's not very I I I don't want to be rude. That's just not very much money. No, >> that's not like funding all six kids college level money. And the other thing is is the is the mortgage a problem?

Like what is the mortgage compared to your take-home pay?

>> No, the mortgage is not a problem. We pay extra on it. It's a 30-year mortgage, but uh we pay it like it's a 15 or normally we even pay more on it.

>> Okay. Well, here's the good news. >> We're hoping to pay it off in like 5 to seven years, but I'm thinking like if we were to buy a house that is less, then we could knock off even like two to three years off that. Well, the the good news is there's no uh Ramsay mandated rule that you have to pay off a house in seven years or else you're a terrible person.

>> So that you have to pay for all of their college. >> Yeah, exactly. That's the other part that we haven't talked about is what can they be doing to help cover some of that cost so it's not all on you to have, you know, 200 grand per kid by the time they're 18. >> So I don't think I personally, just based on what I've heard, I would not downgrade your home.

>> I would not either. It's not going to be the savings you think. And the other the other good news is they're going to be out of the house eventually and you'll have that margin back which then you'll throw at the house and it'll get done in seven years instead of five and we'll still high-five you then. >> And here's the thing.

>> We could just write checks for everything my son wants to be a part of. He's 15 and my daughter's nine.

>> But they have to participate in some of that. And it's I think the thing I would

rather you do than by the way if you sell your house you got to take 6% off the top or 7% because you're going to have to pay really like that 130 is going to dwindle real fast. Um and then moving cost and all that kind of stuff. I'd rather you sit down with the kids and paint them a real picture about if y'all want to be involved in these things. We're going to do this percentage and y'all going to do that percentage. Let them be a part of this.

That's the better long-term lesson.

Here's

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Hey, if you're enjoying the show, make sure to hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, hit the share button, send it to someone that that you love, that you'd want to see get on this Ramsy plan. We just want to help the most people and hitting those buttons uh lets the algorithm know we're going to show up in your feed. We're going to show up in your life. So, appreciate you guys doing that.

It's the best marketing we have. Cararissa is in Fort Wayne, Indiana. >> She explains it all. What's up, >> Cararissa?

I think that's Clarissa, actually. >> Oh, my bad.

>> I apologize, Cararissa. >> Sorry. >> Oh, it's okay. I just want to start off by saying my husband's a huge fan of yours, John. >> Well, good. I'm glad you're not. Just your husband. Tell your husband. Shout out. >> No, I am. I am >> sure. >> Was that what I meant? >> No, I'm playing. I'm totally playing. What's up?

>> Um, so my husband and I are currently >> Hey, your phone is really cut. >> It's cutting out. Talk directly into it.

>> Sorry. I have really bad service where I live. >> Okay. >> Um, >> Fort Wayne people, they're really struggling out there.

>> Well, it's like the rural area outside of Fort Wayne, so really bad.

>> Uh, we have paid off 152,000 in debt. I

mean, we currently have 30 still to pay off. Um, we are both active duty and as you know the government shutdowns. We don't even know if we're going to get a paycheck on the 15th. >> Oh jeez. I hate Can I just say I hate this for you. I hate this for you.

>> I'm so sick of this.

>> Hold on. Take a breath. You're good. You're good. No. Take a breath. It's You're here. You're here like literally serving your country >> and you're a pawn in this weird scheme >> and you've become a a chess piece and other people It's just I hate it.

I do too. >> As a taxpayer, yeah, you're like you're like, "Tell me about it. I'm not the one." Yeah. You're the one not getting paid. As a taxpayer, can I just tell you I hate this is happening to you and it shouldn't be happening. I'm sorry.

>> I appreciate that. >> Thank you for loving my family and George's family and taking care of us.

>> I appreciate you. This sucks. This is stupid. >> It does. It's not fun, especially with bills still having to come out. Um, >> man. So, USAA is offering a government shutdown loan for those basically

they're paying out interest free to cover what our what service members are not receiving from the paycheck. It's up to the amount of their paycheck.

I am on the fence about it because it's interest free. It's enticing um payback.

>> Well, you're calling the Ramsay show. So, obviously never. Listen, I know I'm

not going to get a yes answer, >> but listen, one of the last bargaining chips I heard was, "I'm not going to pay any back pay." >> Well, I will get back. There's 0% interest. I'll receive my back pay.

>> No, no, no, no, no. I'm saying is one of the last bargaining things I heard was if if this doesn't if the shutdown continues, I'm not giving anybody back pay.

>> That was one of the I don't remember which side. That was one of the sides arguments. >> As in what if that paycheck doesn't show up and you still have this loan hanging over? Correct. >> So that's something to think through.

>> Do you guys have anything in savings right now? >> Well, we just have to start our savings right now. >> Do you have a,000 bucks? >> Which is a,000? Yes. >> Okay. >> And what what is your next bills that are coming up that you need to pay?

>> Um our utilities, daycare, because we

still have to go to work. Um tuition and

mortgage.

>> Tuition, mortgage. Okay. What's the mortgage?

$2,000 a month.

>> And what do you guys normally bring home in a month?

>> Um each we bring home in a month well each paycheck is a little over three grand.

So >> So 6,000 >> 6,000 I want to call or 6,000. Okay.

>> For me personally and then he brings home the se the same amount.

>> So you guys have 12 grand coming in normally?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Okay. That's good. You guys have a great income. That's fantastic. Uh, and you had 30K to go. So, what I would do is pause all of your debt payments right now and just cover the four.

>> We've already made those payments with the first month paycheck.

>> Okay. Before we knew what was happening,

>> right? >> Yeah. Cuz you guys are in storm mode.

So, the only thing we're trying to do right now is keep the lights on, keep food on the table, keep the mortgage paid. The rest of the debts, we're just going to pause. If you can't pay your your minimum payments, you can't pay it.

>> Your family's going to come first. And so the thousand bucks will get you to utilities and partial daycare. I don't know if you can work something out with the daycare.

>> I know she's got a bunch of military families that she's watching. So I'd have to talk to her. >> I imagine they're going to work with them to go, "Listen, nobody can pay daycare right now, >> right?" >> And so maybe they'll allow you to pay that on the back end. Uh and the tuition is for what?

>> Uh my two middle kids uh school.

>> Yeah. I' and I'd go knock on their door too right now. And it's embarrassing and humiliating and I hate that you're in this situation. It's so dumb.

>> It is. >> But the good news is it's no fault of your own. I think people are going to be hopefully understanding in a onetoone conversation of, "Hey, you guys know what's going on. Here's what's happening. As soon as this this shutdown's over, we'll get current on all of our payments." And same with the mortgage. Contact your mortgage company.

Let them know what's going on. And so then you know at least you have priorities of what needs to be paid based on how those conversations went down and what's going to happen if you don't pay. >> My guess is everybody will be supportive

>> and maybe one won't maybe one will say sorry we got to have our money and that would be the one that you'll focus on.

>> Okay. >> And you're I mean you're literally going to in storm mode meaning no going out to eat no movies. No, I know you'll >> priority. Don't do >> it's going to be like a creative, hey, what's in the freezer?

Let's get play a game. What can we make out of this? >> It's hunting season. Get after it, husband.

Right. >> And it's also like we got to go do Can you guys go do side hustles? What's the legality of you guys taking on some side work?

>> I would have that conversation today.

>> Okay. And again, the beauty is like George said, you're not I mean, everybody should be lining up in front of the the senior officer's office saying, "Hey, I need to go drive Uber because when I get off shift until midnight because we don't have any money, >> right?" >> So th those that's the hard truth is right now it's just do whatever we can to sell stuff, to take on the side hustles, to cut our expenses down to the bone, to have the onetoone conversations with anybody we owe to see if we can kick the can down another week, another two weeks until this is all settled and we know what's next.

>> And I and I I totally get if I'm in your situation, I I'm telling you, as much as

I hate borrowing money, I would consider that. You're not crazy,

right? You're not crazy, but I'm just George and I would not have a job if every loan that people took out with a plan worked out, >> right? >> And the threats I've seen thrown around on on all sides of this mess. We're going to fire everybody. We're going to not do back I just don't trust anything

to play out like it should. Otherwise, we wouldn't be in the situation.

>> Right. >> Right. >> There's that famous quote, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Is the most scariest quote. This is also like I'm a lender and I'm here to help.

That's also that's that's some scary words right there that I would I would, you know, take heed, take caution. And so I would fight as much as I could until your back is so far up against the wall the lights are out. And then I'm going, okay, we had we had no other route to go. I would borrow, you know, money from family. I'd start a GoFundMe before I took out a loan.

And I do think >> has already done that. >> I I do think this is important. The earlier you get in front of this, I'd call the mortgage company today, even though you may not have to pay them for another two or three weeks and just say, I'm already trying to make make planes.

You know that I've never been laid on my mortgage. We're in a dual a military house. the government's not sending us the the payments they promised us, but we still have to go to work. Um, do you all have a plan?

Can we pause? And I almost guarantee you they'll say, "Absolutely. We got you." >> Okay. >> And I I can't guarantee that.

Let me take that back.

>> Right. >> Right. What I don't want to have happen is you go borrow 10 or 15 grand. You'll

exhale. you get through this month and then the back pay doesn't come.

>> Yeah. >> And then you say, hey, even though it's a zero percent, like they want their money back and it'll they'll go, well, now that was a that was a a one-mon thing. Now it's going to trigger, you know, 15%. >> It was 90 days no interest, but now we're going to charge back. Who knows what's going to happen down the road, right? >> Right. >> And I appreciate I I'm going to say something crazy. I appreciate USAA reaching out and trying to keep people afloat. I get that sentiment. Um, I just

think you're in a situation where you can go knock on some doors and make some phone calls and tell everybody two weeks, three weeks before, hey, we're in a we're in a pickle here and everyone in this community is in a pickle. Um, we just want you to know we don't have any money right now. And hopefully they'll say, yeah, we we get it. Um, just keep sending your kids, keep taking care of stuff that's not going to work at the grocery store, but hopefully for those big expenses, it'll it'll hold off.

Hopefully we get this >> we get this nonsense.

>> This is this is what Congress isn't seeing. These are real people. And it's not even Carissa. It's it's the person who runs the the daycare center who's not going to get paid. And it people that aren't going to get paid. >> What a nightmare. >> It's just a nightmare.

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Cassie is in Montgomery up next. What's going on, Cassie?

Hi fellas. Thank you so much for taking my call. >> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> Okay. Um, we purchased, my husband and I purchased a second home when our oldest child started college because after a couple years, we figured out the game in college towns and and by the time they graduated, we were going to be bankrupt.

Like they upped the rent every freaking year. So, we found a a pretty cheap

little house and bought it. And our youngest child is now in college. So, everything is is just clicking off until our oldest child got married and decided

not to leave. So, he is he

>> So, your short-term real estate game is now long-term and your renter is also your child.

>> Yes. >> Hold on. You're the landlord. You can make them leave.

>> Oh, no. I would never do that. We want to help them buy a house. They they I mean I know you know how difficult it is for young people. They're both working full-time. They've only been married two months, so it's it's not um but they were originally moving to her city and

that just like changed just for the wedding. She was offered a new job in town and so he didn't have to move after all. And >> so where is this where is this house?

>> It's in Auburn, Alabama.

>> Okay. So not too far from you guys.

You're in Montgomery. No. >> Well, are they paying market rent? How is this working?

>> Well, we just started. Obviously, they they're uh my my youngest had to move out. They had been roommates in our house. We had to find the youngest a place to live. Um so, they've been covering. We took a um a small mortgage

out on it and had just been paying it off because the short term of it was we're going to pay this, you know, it's going to be selling before the 15 years would be up anyway. So, um but uh we've

been paying extra payments on it just because that's what we do. We don't have any other debt. And um so we thought,

and I just want to bounce this off of somebody for some help, that we would let them have them pay rent um that just

kind of covers the basics of the

mortgage and and all of that for a few years so they can save up a down payment and then they can buy the house um on

their time and we'll give them, you know, the excessive family discount of course on the house. So yeah, my investment that was going to pay for my uh vacation house is no longer >> I would I would recommend a a different thing.

>> Okay, >> I would recommend not planning two or

three years ahead with them.

>> And here's why. >> Okay, >> the the mobility of young people,

especially young married couples, and the way the job markets are right now, they're just kind of a mess.

And so what I would hate is two years down the road, your son gets a huge

um a huge raise and they don't want to live in a tiny little house in a tiny little college town. They want to move across town and or she gets pregnant or she doesn't want to work. Like so I think you might have that in your mind, but I wouldn't put that on the table right now. I would say, "We're going to sign a lease." And I I know this is uncomfortable, but I want you to teach them >> and keep everything clean relationally between y'all.

>> We're going to sign a year lease together. Here's what your rent's going to be, and you can wink at them and say, "We're going to hook you up, and we hope y'all will save for down payment, and look at the blessing that this is, and y'all make the rent as low as you want." Like, whatever.

>> And then if they want to stay there the next year, cool. and then tell your son if y'all ever want to buy this, it's your job to call us

because I don't want there to be. >> That was their idea. >> I know it is right now, >> but it might not be in two or three years, >> right? Which is still not going to hurt us cuz then we sell it at value.

>> No, no. I I'm y'all financially y'all going to be fine. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about the relationship stuff about him having a young wife that kind of doesn't want to live there anymore, but they already promised mom and they've been hooking us up and now we have to do this and >> Oh, I see. So, let him off the hook. I got you. >> So, it's it's you saying, "Y'all want to buy this house someday? Great. We're going to take this year by year

because you don't you and your husband don't have to have this to survive.

You're help you're in a position to help them out." And but man, I'm I care way less about the money on this. I care way more about the relationship part on this.

>> Absolutely. Yeah. It's vital to us.

That's why this is like our wedding gift to them to give. >> Amazing. Amazing. >> A huge >> But but you when you sit down and sign this lease and tell you and your husband tell them if in two years something else comes up, y'all get one of y'all wants to take a job somewhere across the country or y'all want to move to a different neighborhood.

Like y'all, we're always going to be in your corner. We don't ever want this house or this lease to come between us, >> right? >> But I that would be my recommendation not to make a plan now that's two or three years out with a brand new young married couple that just graduated college. The world's too fluid right now.

>> Sure. >> Now, there are some financial implications you need to think about if this does happen. Or number one is capital gains for you guys because it's a rental property and not a primary residence.

>> Residence. >> Yeah. And you'll also have a loss of the step up in basis for the kids. So that's one reason we always say, "Hey, let your kids inherit the home after you pass, but don't give it to them while you're alive because you lose that step up in basis, >> right?" >> So whatever the house was, you know, worth, there could be some huge tax costs down the road for the kids. Then there's also gift tax issues. If you sell it below market value, that would be considered a gift in the IRS's eyes.

>> Just the gap between what it was worth. >> Yes. If you if it's worth 500, you sell it to them for 300 because you said, "I want to just be nice." Well, that $200,000 discount is considered a gift and that's above the IRS's, you know, gift tax exemption.

>> I see. >> So, there's there's a lot there's things to think about if you want to do that.

>> There's better ways to gift your kids a bunch of money is what I'm saying. If that's what you're trying to do, and to John's point, there's so many other things here that's like, would they actually want this house? If it didn't exist, would they just go up and buy this house? Probably not.

So, if you want to just gift them a down payment, you can gift them, you know, 18 grand per year per person and that could add up pretty quickly if you wanted to do that and then they can go use that money to do whatever they want with.

That would be better from a like tax perspective if you're trying to be smart about it. So, I would get with a Smart Vster Pro. You can reach out to one at Ramseyolutions.com and they can help you navigate the right way to do this so you don't have any regrets later of going, "We had the right motive. We had the right heart, but it ended up being more of a headache than it was worth and it was bad for both parties.

>> So, George, I'm going to ask a question to George on your behalf.

So, let's say these kids move out and they sell the house and there's a couple of college kids that they like and they're just going to sell it to them and they bought the house for 200. The house appraised at 250. They're going to sell it for what they owe, 180. Right?

If they sold it for 180, even to people not their kids, do they still have that gap? Cuz I thought I would sell my house as much as I want, as cheap as I want.

If I were to sell my house, >> I don't think that would be considered a gift in the IRS's eyes.

>> Okay. >> Because it was that that gap is not to benefit, you know, your kids.

>> So, the fact that it's their kids is going to add into it. >> I think so. I think your your family would play a role in how the IRS sees these gifts happening. And so, I would definitely, you know, cross your tees, dot your eyes on this, Cassie, to make sure that you're doing it the right way and that there's not a bunch of zeros at the end that you guys go, "Oh my goodness, we did not think through this.

We just thought we were doing a nice thing." How much is this house worth?

>> Um, it's worth about 285.

>> Um, we would we bought it for 150.

>> Oh, wow. Okay. So, it's appreciated a lot, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then I would We had talked about selling it to them for 220.

>> Okay. I I would check with the tax person. That doesn't sound out of bounds to me.

>> Okay. Okay, that doesn't sound bomb >> because I figured out what their payment would be and you know that that would be kind of easy for them to do and it wouldn't be a burden.

>> Okay. >> Um >> and then they'll have to qualify for the mortgage on their own, >> right? And she just started her job, so she needs a couple of years >> to get their feet under. >> Yeah.

I just didn't want you to prop them up artificially and then real life hits and they go, "Oh my goodness, this was a nice gift, but we can't even afford to maintain the gift." >> Yeah. I like the idea of them signing a one-year lease or a six-month lease and y'all being so open-handed with we love y'all. This is supposed to be a a blessing for y'all and our relationship's always going to come over and then y'all do your homework on the tax stuff. Best of luck.

You've got a great heart casting.

[Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by the host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Dr. John Deloney.

Open phones at88255225.

Call us and we'll help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Elena is in Mississippi up next.

What's going on, Elena?

Hi. Um, thank y'all for having me. Um,

we are wondering kind of what to do with

our car situation. Me and my husband recently got married in July. We've got two older cars and I would love to buy

another fun project car. Um, we're

trying to figure out if that would be the right move for us or not.

>> By project car, do you mean something that like a clunker that you fix up and then sell?

I would like to buy something to fix up and keep, but he would like to buy something to fix up and sell.

>> So, you want a hobby, he wants a business.

>> He's got his He already has a hobby. I would like a hobby as well, and he wants a business. >> And you both can turn a wrench. >> A hobby?

>> Yes. >> That's fun. Okay. What's this project car going to cost you?

Um, well, the ones we've been looking at uh range from about 15 to $900 to uh buy

and then about 15 to $2,000 in parts.

>> Okay. So, let's call it let's call it two grand to get it and two two grand to fix it. So, four grand all in.

>> What kind of car? What kind of car do you want to get? >> It's a Hyundai Genesis. It'd be a 2.0 turbo. >> That's what's up. >> Oh, are you going to drop it real low and put lights on it and listen to like music?

No, he's got a 3.8 uh V6 and we've

absolutely loved it. We rebuilt the motor in it. It blew up about two years ago now. Um so it it has definitely been

a lot of work, but it has been so much fun for the both of us and I absolutely love the car and >> you're my favorite caller I've had in weeks. >> So rock and roll. >> They don't make them like you anymore, Elena. >> My wife wants to make sourdough bread and you want to fix car engines. My car My car runs on AA batteries. Ladies out here talking V8 to push it when it runs out. >> Okay. So, do you have $4,000?

>> Uh, yes. Um, we have been very fortunate. We have a paid off house. We are completely debtree. The cars that we do have are paid off. Um, and we've got

a very good emergency fund saved up and we've got a good bit in cash to do this as well. >> So, how much cash do you have outside of the emergency fund? just this is fun money that we've saved up.

>> Um we've probably got about $6,000.

>> Awesome. And so what's the rub here?

Does your husband not want you to do this project car?

>> We're we're getting to the point that he drives a service truck every day. So his car is not going to work and back. My

car does go to work and back and it is getting higher on mileage. It's a 2006 4Runner. It's got 250,000 miles on it.

Um, so if >> you guys need better cars happen, they don't. These guys are awesome, George.

>> But is he like, "Well, we need better cars for ourselves before you go working on a fun little project." Is that his mentality? >> He really he really wants us to save up for a truck because we are in need. We do borrow my dad's maybe two or three times a month. Um, just the things we do

where we live. It would be more of a beneficial for us to have a truck, a reliable truck versus another fun car.

>> If you sold the the service truck or would you not sell it? Would you keep the two older cars?

>> We would have to keep the two older cars. The service truck comes with his job that he's at. So, we pay nothing on the service truck. >> So, it sounds to me like you, and I the way I almost said this sounded awful, but you know, I'm saying it with a smile on my face. You're the one with the thing here, right? because he doesn't drive his >> thing, but I want to keep the thing.

>> He doesn't but but you don't. This isn't about a car like because you have a cool fun car that's actually faster and more powerful than the one you want to fix up. >> And he's saying just drive that one cuz I don't even drive that one to work. You're saying >> I want another project to do with you.

>> Yes. >> Okay. I think you need to have that conversation.

>> Okay. >> Because he's looking at this like we have enough cars. We have too many cars. We actually have a need which is a truck. And you're saying, "I want to spend time doing a thing with you."

>> Yes. >> And I don't know many husbands that would not just like smile from ear to

ear for days if their wife said, "You know what? I just we don't need any more deer. I just want to hunt with you all the time." >> John dreams of that conversation. >> I know. Or I I I I just want to go I want us to dance all the time. Like you know what I mean? Like that's a that's an amaz But that sounds like the real conversation. Is that Tell me if I'm wrong. I may be off off base here.

>> That that is a conversation we need to have, but we're also to the point that

both cars have issues and he's worried about us not having a reliable car.

>> And I think that's fair. >> The company The company's very strict on the service trucks and they are just working back and that's it.

>> How much can you guys save per month towards like a car fund?

>> Um, right now not much. Uh, we just have

been fortunate to pay our house off, so we're still trying to figure everything else out of that. >> That's what I was thinking. You guys are debtree with an emergency fund. You should have the most margin you've ever had. Are you guys not making enough?

>> We do. >> Um, we take home about five grand every month. >> And your expenses are how much to cover all of your utilities, insurance, food.

Uh they they run about 12 between

insurance and uh we do have a I have

some medical bills that have to be covered every month. >> Okay. Um >> but you're talking three months y'all could have 12 grand plus the six you

have >> and with your your wrench turning capabilities. Y'all could get a rad

70 80 or 90s F-150 and make it pretty

cool, right?

>> Yes. He really would like a Dodge Ram and I like them too. >> Well, that's embarrassing for both of you, but you can do that. >> What is the truck that he wants? What does that cost?

>> Um, the ones we've been looking at are 12 to 16,000.

>> Okay. So, how about this? I think we can compromise and go, let's eat our vegetables before we eat dessert. Let's get this better truck. And so, we can save up 16 grand. We get the truck.

Then, once we have the money on top of that, the extra four grand, then we get the the fun project car. And you can cash flow that. You can get it for 15.

>> You're talking 3 months. You're talking for Christmas y'all get this truck. You already have six saved. You just need to save 10 grand more.

>> Yeah. >> So, put away 3,300 bucks in a savings account. Cover the rest of your bills with whatever's left over. And you've got this money by Christmas.

>> That Yeah. I hadn't thought about it like that. >> I would put it on paper to help him visualize it and go, "You know what? I've had a change of heart. I talked to those Ramsay Show guys. We're going to get to that truck." >> Well, nerdy, they were right. Cuz then the next month, come January, you've got an extra 1,500 bucks to go get your project car. And the next month, you have the money to fix it up.

>> Yeah. >> So, all of this is going to happen by Valentine's Day.

>> He's smiling at me through the window.

He's listening to the show. >> Hey, tell him he is not allowed to say the words, "I told you so." Or all of this advice goes out the window and you go get your car. Okay? He's not allowed to say, "I told you so." >> And I I do think >> I think he took that too well. I I do think that y'all need to consider selling one.

>> You don't need five cars in the >> car. Yeah, y'all y'all are getting Beverly Hillbillies real quick. I You don't need that many cars, but if you got some older cars, I think you find one, whether it's the you can get some good money for that 4Runner >> or the other the other his little toy car that he doesn't get to drive very much. I'd sell one of those if not both of them and get this truck cuz you'll get that thing knocked out so fast. But man, George, these they're awesome.

>> Yeah. I'm like, "Can you guys come fix up our cars in Nashville?" >> Not yours.

>> You have to have a stint at the Apple store to fix up your car. >> I just hit software update and then it's it fixed it. We're good now.

>> Yeah, they use cars with like oil and stuff. >> I bet they know their way around a clutch pack piston. Tell you that much. >> I don't even know the words you just said. >> Google it.

[Music]

[Music]

Investing may seem complicated or confusing, but it doesn't have to be that way. The Ramsay Investing in a Retirement Hub is packed with interactive tools and resources that can help you get informed, not intimidated.

You can check it out at ramseysolutions.com/retire or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast.

And again, that hub is completely free and packed with great tools. Susan is in New Jersey up next. Susan, welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm hoping you can help me. >> We hope so, too. >> Let it rip. What's up? >> No promises.

>> Okay. So, my husband um was a six-f

figureure income earnner and a year ago, August, he lost his job um supporting

the VA and government um when the contract he was on did not renew. Um

so, he is in his late 60s. I'm in my

early 60s. I take care of my mom full-time with dementia. Um he had been

continuing to search for employment and of course the way of the world, nothing's panning out. So he had been flipping homes in his fringe hours for about a decade and always being successful.

The last home that he did didn't go so

well. The one that he decided to take on

because he couldn't get government work.

He is ran into some situations with a

contractor and we are not going to realize the ROI that we had intended.

Um, so my question is, um, I do have a

401k and I do we do have, um, a rental property that our our home was paid off,

by the way. We were debtree. Um, we've been Ramsey followers. We've been debtree for quite a number of years. Um,

so we have this rental property that would return a decent ROI um, through

the, you know, peak season especially.

And typically we have extended stays in the winter time too. Right now um we're

still waiting for something to materialize.

Um the equity that we have in that is

about the same amount that I have in my 401k.

So when we sat down and looked at, you

know, what our expenses are for the home that we live in right now and our taxes are insane. So, the home that we live in now, um the rental property that we have, and then of course when he sells,

um the house that he's working on is going to be listed within the next two weeks. Um so, we're hoping for a quick turnaround, but as you know, you never know. Um so, that's really the essence

of my question. um is do I go to my

401 to survive on

or do I borrow against my so do I borrow

against my 401 or do we liquidate the

rental property and take the equity out of that even though that's been an income earner for us during the year which has been a huge blessing especially the fact that you know I'm caring for my mom And it's very very

difficult. I've always had a side hustle. I've always worked um until

mom's illness really took over. So >> yeah. Wow. >> There's my story. Yes.

>> Well, so far from what you've told me, option C is the most appealing. I don't like you robbing the entire 401k. Even though you could do so without penalty at your age. Um you're still going to, you know, there's going to be some tax implications. I hate the idea of you borrowing from your 401k at this game.

do that >> and selling the rental property to get some financial footing sounds like the most reasonable common sense option right now. So, how much could you sell the rental property for?

>> Sorry. >> You're okay. You're okay.

>> We think we could get in the upper fives. >> Okay. And you owe how much?

>> Be fully fully furnished. We owe 329.

>> So, could you net like 150 from this?

>> Yes. and use that money to kind of figure figure life out, figure out next steps.

>> Yeah, >> because my bigger concern is how would you guys survive in a retirement if he's unable to work in the future? What was the game plan? >> You know, that that's really a good question. And then there was another snafu, if you will, thrown in there where um he's had some medical issues.

um we thought he was going to need another open heart surgery this past spring and then God graced us with no

that wasn't the case. Um but now he does have some some issues. So that's the reason for the the home that he's work

currently working on and having to you know subcontract if you will.

>> Yeah. >> Um >> I think this is the time to simplify.

Would you not agree to just get well both of you and have some financial cushion? How much is in the in the total nest egg for retirement investments?

>> Well, that's a really good question. Um

I I I'm thinking so my 401

um and then our home is paid off.

>> Does he have any money in retirement at all?

>> Well, I just learned that no.

>> Okay. And here's here's my >> because he was trying to survive and >> I know we're not here to cast. We're

looking to see all the puzzle pieces here to help you navigate this.

>> One of the one of the most important things when life blows up is us to get real information, right? So we can get firm footing. >> Do and this I'm going to ask some questions. >> I'm I'm going to ask some hard questions. Okay. >> Do you have any other siblings that can help support your mom right now?

>> No. >> Okay. So you are completely on your own with her. You're completely on your own in this situation.

>> I am. >> Okay. Um, does she have Medicaid? Does she have opportunity? And it does anybody want that? No. But here here here's what I'm scared about. I'm scared you're going to sell this house. You're going to actually reduce your your monthly burden quite a bit because you'll have to make that house payment whether anybody stays there or not on that $500,000 mortgage. And so you're going to clear that from your day-to-day pressure. And you're going to get $150,000 cash infusion. That's cool.

But y'all don't have another plan after that, right?

>> So, um, we're hoping I mean, he's not afraid to to work. He loved He adored his job.

>> And I know I know, but listen, listen.

It's I need you. I'm saying this with all due love. That job that that identity that comes with saying, "I earned six figures." It is over.

>> Oh, yes. We know that. We know that. and his ability physically to do any job could be limited as well. So, we're just looking at reality. >> I'd rather him go get a job at Home Depot and make 45 grand. I'm I'm serious

because five figures >> and I didn't mean to laugh I didn't mean to laugh. I because we have talked about that >> five figures because a guy with his wisdom and a guy with his experience could go in there and start and then he'd be assistant manager in six months.

But making 45 grand is making five

figures is better than making zero figures. And that's not that's not casting any sort of anything other than y'all have a math problem,

>> right? >> And that's scary. And you throw in mom, you throw in his health, like you're you're barely hanging on.

>> And so there's something about we got to go like just choose reality. We got to deal in reality. this house that you tried to do that that season of our life. That's got to appear at the end of that sentence, too. >> The next right thing is Home Depot in the morning and Lowe's in the evening. And he's got a You're talking about an almost 70-y old man with a heart challenge. I get that, right? I totally get that. And y'all have a math problem.

It's a scary place to be. And you'll have to have some really come to Jesus hard conversations about not do we want to, not do we wish we could, but do we have the money to continue to house and support mom >> or do we have to put her in a facility where we can support her where where Medicaid can take over?

>> Yeah. So she she's um at home.

>> Mhm. >> So we do um there's three of us that are

I have two other caregivers and myself.

>> Okay. And that was the other thing is that he was helping to assist with her care until he said, "I really feel like I could write the ship if I just do one more house." And so I said, >> "Okay." But um we had some very

unfortunate situations with the contractor, which I won't get into.

>> Well, here here's it doesn't matter. It's all a distraction. >> It's all a distraction. He went he went for it. >> He went for it and it didn't work.

>> Yes. And so let's put a period at the end of that sentence. And I'm going to I'm going to high-five him for for going out there and scrapping and clawing and try to make it happen.

>> But we got to get some money in the house. And I hate that y'all are in this situation. >> George, so you think the right thing is to sell that rental house? >> I would sell this rental property.

It's the last thing you need right now in your life is to also be a landlord and have this debt in your life. And so I'd clear the decks. I'd have that money in the bank. You can put it in a high yield savings account for now to help you guys float by.

I mean, the interest it creates will at least cover a few bills right now. And then see if you can get paid to be a caregiver. It doesn't sound like you're doing that right now.

That might be an option as well. >> Husband's got to go get a job.

[Music]

[Music]

Are you staying on track with the baby steps? Well, we've got a quick quiz that will help you check your progress and you'll get a a personalized plan made just for you. So, simply head to the show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. James is in Charlotte, North Carolina. Up next, James, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, very appreciative of your time, so thank you. >> Absolutely. How can John and I help?

>> Uh, so long story short, I've been following you guys um for a few years

now. Um, and I feel like I blinked and

um I'm making a I can't believe I'm making this call, but uh we're planning on paying off our house in December.

>> Yeah, dude.

>> Congratulations. >> Fantastic. How old are you?

>> 35. >> Oh my goodness. >> Me and my wife, 35, and then we have a three-year-old daughter. >> Amazing. What's the house worth?

>> Uh, a little north of 600.

>> Awesome. Are you guys baby steps millionaires or on the cusp? Uh so um

that's actually part of my question. So um we you know most of our net net uh

net worth is going to be in the house.

Um and now we're kind of accelerating

with investments and retirement and everything that goes into that. And I guess my question is what exactly is next? Uh we we will not have any debt whatsoever uh once the house is paid off in December. >> Awesome. Um, >> so you're feeling lost cuz you're a guy who like you have the goal and you check the box and then Okay, now what?

>> Kind of. Yeah, I feel like uh we just beat the video game and now what's next, right? >> You got baby step eight. Give back to uh John. You can Venmo him. >> Yeah. Now you don't have to play video games anymore. That's the cool part.

>> I love it, man. >> Yeah. >> So now you you by December you'll be at baby step seven. Build wealth and give.

And this is where you just increase every area. So you're able to give more.

you're able to invest more beyond that 15% parameter. You're able to spend more. And so then it becomes you and your wife sitting down to kind of dream again to go, okay, what do we want the next 5 years to look like, 10 years to look like? What about legacy? Do we want to upgrade and house? Cuz here's the good news. You woke up the same guy the day after you pay off your mortgage. I assume you're a good-look guy, James.

>> Hey, you know what? They they don't call me humble for nothing. So, uh, >> there we go. uh >> I woke up looking just like I did and so that was very frustrating. I thought, man, I'm in baby step seven. I'm a new man. And then I still got to, you know, just do all the things that you got to do. >> Eyebrows, the whole thing.

>> So that's the that's the good news and the bad news. The good news is you have more margin than ever to spend more, save more, and give more. The bad news is you still got the same problems. You still got to do the car repair and upgrade and save for college. And so it's going to be oddly antilimactic.

And so the fun part is getting to dream again because you've been so focused on this goal. Clearly a young guy paying off his house this early. You guys were intense about this, weren't you?

>> Yeah, we were uh for quite some time. So

>> it feels really good to get here. >> Here's the question that um in a different context saved my marriage, but it has informed the way me and my wife make decisions. She asked me, "How do

you want this house to feel when you walk in every day?" And it it wasn't a it wasn't a fun conversation we were having. And I immediately said, I want this house to feel full of laughter and warmth and I want us to like I want you to be happy that I'm home. And that conversation led

to a whole bunch of other actions for both of us so that we could have that kind of house. And there's something amazing about you and your wife. You know what would be cool? You you get the babysitter and plan a half day with your

wife >> for the day after you hit send on this thing and y'all go out and you can symbolically clear the deck and say nobody can take our house away from us.

We're essentially millionaires and we're 35. Statistically, we're not even halfway home yet. And we get to decide how we want our home and our lives to feel moving forward.

>> And y'all can put on the table, you know what? We want to be able to give our kid a house when when she gets married. We want to be able to make sure she has no college debt and but we want her to go to college. We want to have new car.

We want to be able to give a million dollars by the time we're 45. Whatever that is. Y'all set those things together. Like basically, y'all aren't playing the video game anymore.

Now y'all are writing and and and creating your own video game. And then y'all just reverse engineer what must be true for those things to happen.

Mhm. Yeah. No, it sounds sounds amazing.

Like listen, like you had mentioned for my wife, like she definitely deserves it. You know, she's made so many sacrifices over the years to get this done. So, um >> So, where does she want to go?

>> Is there a trip?

>> Yeah. Uh so, yeah. So, you know, we've been we've been talking about things like that um for for 2026. So, >> where you know, where does she want to go? Um, well, specifically if we're talking in in country, you know, Lake Tahoe has always been like a a dream spot for her. >> Okay. Book it. Book it.

>> Yeah. >> Book it. >> Get get the suite. Don't cheap out.

Upgrade. Get the get the the big room

>> and Yes. Get get the get the spa day

every day of the time. Like every a spa treatment every time you like do that.

>> Upgrade the rental car. >> Yeah. Yes. Yeah. No more no more Ford Focus. >> We're not going to be driving up in a Sentra. >> Exactly. Hello, Tahoe.

>> Right. But but it's it's you. This is going to sound crazy. I want you to start practicing >> giving money in crazy ways. Y'all start practicing tipping obnoxiously together.

I want y'all to practice putting a vacation on the calendar that you're going to go to. You're going to practice. It's going to feel weird because y'all have been y'all have been fight or flight for so long.

>> Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. No, that this all sounds amazing. So, again, really appreciate your guys' time and uh >> I say congratulations, brother.

>> Yeah, way to go. I love the story.

>> Thank you so much. Thanks again.

>> James is a stud. Love talking to him.

>> What's the thing you did after you paid off your house? >> Uh upgrade car. That was the carrot I dangled for both of us.

>> You car?

>> Yeah, it was I mean it was a nice It was a Tesla. It was a 2013. That's what I upgraded from upgrade >> from an09 Civic with the bumper hanging off. So that's my the key life hack is like never go way too much cuz then you to you got to up that next time.

>> So now my next car just needs to be nicer than a 2013. So >> I did get a lot of respect for you when you upgraded cars when I saw the one you bought yourself versus the one you bought Whitney. >> Yes. Much like a good man.

>> She deserves it. >> It's a good man. >> So that was Yeah, that was a great example for James. I'm like, it's probably time to upgrade the cars to something that scares you a little bit, but you're going to walk in and, you know, write a check and be done with it, but it's still going to be the most money you've ever spent on a car.

That's the part that's kind of interesting. As you get past baby step seven, every next thing you do is the most you've spent on that thing, >> and then you just go, >> "Oh, okay.

your church and go have coffee and say, "Hey, two or three families are going to come in during Christmas and they're going to be struggling. I want you to like just answer we got you and then you let me know and we'll we'll take care of that and it's going to we've never written a $3,000 check to somebody we don't know. We've never we're going to start doing this. >> Those are my favorite.

You get like the old lady who the lights got shut off and you go we're going to cover her light bill for a year. Or if you find out your neighbor, like we had in a previous segment that um >> hey, she's a military um member of the military, your husband's military, they are going to work every day and because of the stupid government shutdown, they don't get any food and the they're worried about groceries, they're worried about rent, they're worried about uh daycare.

>> That's done. >> I love those. And the the things that like bring tears to your eyes, like you're you know, you hear about the adoption story and that if that brings tears to your eyes, put money behind it.

I think that's a good life principle.

You find yourself crying during a commercial in a sports game? Just put a star by that and find a place in your local community to get involved with that one. >> Dude, I I'll cry at a Charmin commercial. Doesn't take much for me. >> Well, then you can start. >> I've invested a lot of money in Charmin.

>> Yes, >> those are those are fun. Yeah, I I just jotted down some things for James if he's he's still listening out there. Um a college fund. Like I would just put 10 grand in a 529 just cuz we can. And that way you're that money is all going to grow tax-free for college from age 3 to

18. Boom. That's done. Uh retirement, let's max it out. Let's max out a 401k.

Max out the IRA. Maybe do a backdoor Roth IRA if we make too much money.

Vacation fund. We got to put in a,000 bucks every month to get to 12 grand for that trip a year from now. A car fund.

That car is going to be 40 grand. We're going to pay cash. So we got to put away three grand for the next, you know, 13 months. So, the house fund, we want to upgrade in cash one day.

All right, that's going to be an extra 400 grand on top of ours. That's going to take five years to save up, 10 years. So, I like having all those set them in motion and then don't think about them. Like, put it on autopilot and don't let this consume you cuz I'm a goal guy like James.

And so, it took me a long time to just let go. And >> I'm a feelings guy. What do I feel like doing next? Let's go do that.

>> John is all feelings. I'm all logic.

[Music]

[Music]

Our scripture of the A 1 Corinthians 15:33, "Do not be deceived. Bad company

ruins good morals." Jordan Peterson said, "You are not obligated to associate with people who are making your life worse." That's good advice. Michelle is up next

in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. What's going on, Michelle?

>> Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it. >> What's up?

>> Oh, I I'll tell you what. I've been following um you guys for about a year

and uh planned to make this call um although I thought it was going to be a very different phone call. Um so

my husband and I um you know we we started a business um opened our doors 5 weeks before COVID and uh pretty much

were in survival mode these past seven

years. Um, and uh, after digging a

bigger and bigger and bigger hole, um,

we finally decided it was time to call it quits. Um, get regular jobs and move

forward. Um, and I, uh, started working first. Um,

got us stable because we weren't even stable paying monthly bills. Um, and he,

uh, he got a job next. Um he had worked one

week and um had a massive heart attack

and passed away. >> Oh no. So sorry.

>> What was his name? Michelle.

>> Mel. >> Mel. Pretty awesome guy.

>> Yeah. We've got quite a story.

>> Yeah. Um how long were y'all married?

>> Uh was nine years um on the 9th

>> and he passed away on the 3rd of September. >> Of September. So, this is really fresh, huh? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, man. I'm so sorry.

>> So, um you know, part of

part of the struggle is that I just shut

down. >> Of course, >> I'm looking at everything that we need

to take care of and it's a kind of a

mix >> of of debt. Um there's tax issues,

there's um some student loan debt, um

some other debt, and unfortunately

everything is kind of coming to a head.

Um the job that he was getting would

have essentially doubled our income. He was going to make about the same amount as me. And you know, we had a plan. You

know, I was working on our budget and I was actually planning to call you guys and say, "Okay, this is what we got.

This is what we're working with. Where do we start? Um, but now it's just me.

>> Yeah.

>> And I don't even know where to start.

>> Well, f first here is hear me say like we're heartbroken with you. You're you're just a little over 30 days and so this is there's a chance you don't remember this phone call is what I want to say. And but I want you to remember that we loved you and we gave you some next right steps. Okay.

>> Okay. >> Um do you have any kids? Do you have any support in that way?

>> Um my daughter uh lives close by.

>> Okay. >> Um she's grown. >> What what we're looking for here is you're right. You've got bills. You've got um debts. You've got creditors.

There's probably stuff you don't know about related to the business. There's just stuff feels like it's piling up on you. Just know you're 30 days out. The

only things in the world that matter right this second are your four walls.

Do I have a place to live? Do I have heat and air? Do I have water? And do I have food and transportation?

Okay. >> And other people can knock on your door.

They can send you letters. And I'm not going to open them right now.

And some of that I've I've been in homes of with with women in your exact situation that know right now this house

is too much and I'm going to have to find a place to to live.

If that's your situation, then we'll take that route. If you're okay with your house right now, you you can afford on your salary to make payments right now, then we can exhale a little bit on that one. And we're literally going to get somebody to sit with us. And in your case, maybe your daughter, maybe a girlfriend, maybe somebody at work, somebody to sit with you and just simply walk through the bare basics.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> Is there any kind of will or life insurance of any kind?

>> No. >> So, um, my husband, um, was actually

rebuilding his life. Um, we're both in recovery. God will God willing in November I'll have 36 years sober.

>> Oh, congratulations.

>> Thank you. And he um at the time of his

passing he had about seven years clean.

He was a heroin addict and that was part of our business. We started the business um with the idea of hiring people in

recovery and and helping them rebuild

and that was also part of his journey.

Um, so at any rate, um, I already owned

my house. >> Um, and so everything was in my name, so it's not complicated that way because he had nothing. >> Can you afford to stay in the house with your with the money you make?

>> Depending on how everything else falls, yes. >> Okay. >> In theory. >> Are you back to work?

>> Uh, I am. I am.

>> Okay. What are you making?

um about 75 um a year. >> Okay, >> good. Good. So, you you've got enough to cover all the basic bills right now. You can cover your four walls. Is there enough left over to make your minimum debt payments?

>> Um well, that's to be determined. Um as people are coming with things that are past due and trying to set up payment plans, I'm trying to figure out what kind of payment plans I can set up. >> I wouldn't do any of that right now.

I would get everything in order, pull credit reports for you and for him and

get a sense of what what what what's happening. Okay.

>> Okay. >> The other thing is there's things like if he had student loans then they may

they they may be relinquished since he passed. If y'all consolidated them, you may be on the hook for like so it's figuring out each one of these bills as they come in.

But I but but I don't want to start making payment plans over here and signing up with this one and calling this credit. It's going to feel like too much. I want you to have at least 60 days where you can exhale.

And there you're going to need to go like this is the this is like the hard brass tax part of this. Okay? You're going to go need to get about 15 or 20 death certificates and people are going to want to see it.

You're going to email it. It's going to feel like a like an outofbody experience dealing with the business side of someone you love passing away

and people are going to be mean. They're going to think you're pulling a scam on them and I would let that roll off my shoulders and I'm going to go do the next right thing.

Okay? But I want you to know what size elephant you have to eat here. Is it $150,000 in debt you owe everybody else?

Is it 25? Like how big is this thing?

And then we're gonna that's going to help us make the plan, >> right? >> How how how big of just the napkin math you've done, how big is this? How much money do you owe other people right now?

>> Um including the house?

>> No, ma'am. Not including the house.

>> Uh uh probably um about 120.

>> Okay.

>> And how much of that is his student loans? >> He didn't have any. The student loan.

The student loan is is me. It's actually a parent loan for my daughter's school.

>> Okay. Is she still in school or is she out and working? >> No, she's out and working and paying on her own loans. So, I took out a portion

um as a parent loan um to help cover

what she couldn't on her own.

>> Okay. M. Then if the number truly is

120, 120 150 and you make 75 plus your

house payment, you may be in a situation where you're going to have to sell your house and we're going have to clear this debt and we're going to have to downsize. We're going to have to live with daughter for 6 months. We're going to have to get a one-bedroom apartment. We're going to have to do some pretty radical things because a radical thing just happened to us. But here's the thing. I don't want you doing the next step on your own. I want you to have somebody with you. Okay.

>> Yeah. I don't even know where to start.

We've got you. We're going to hook you up with a financial coach, Michelle. You're not going to pay for it. It's on us.

And along with that, we're going to give you our every dollar budgeting app, the premium version. And that financial coach on our team is going to walk you through all of this, lay it all out for you to give you the lay of the land and and help you take those next steps cuz I know right now, I mean, you're a month in. You can't see the forest from the trees. Everything's cloudy.

>> Thanks for calling us. >> Yeah. God almighty, I'm so sorry.

>> Oh, hang on the line, Michelle. Uh Christian's going to pick up what you we'll get you connected to set up that financial coaching call.

[Music]

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is

weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the Ramsay Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union

Studio. This is the Ramsay

Show.88255225. 88255225

is the phone number. We'd love to hear from you today alongside the incomparable the denimwearing

nicely trimmed beard.

>> Keep going. I paid you good money on Venmo for this. >> George Camel folks, one of my favorites to be with. Uh the people the people like us, they they tell me. >> Well, we try to keep things uh light in a world that is heavy, calls that are heavy. We we give you the truth and we get we get you to smile along the way.

>> He's George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman.

We're here for you. Heavy topics, but we're going to do it in a light-hearted way and have some fun. Let's get right to it. Keith is joining us in Portland, Oregon. Keith, how can we help today?

>> Well, I could really use some advice in regards to getting my life along a better track um both personally and financially. >> Okay, tell us what the problem is. Where can we dive in?

>> Uh so, um currently I'm a truck driver.

I'm making about $70,000 a year. I have

uh I have about an $80,000

uh school debt, you know, and I'm at a

place financially where I can't even make the interest payments. Um not even

attacking the principal. >> Why is that?

>> Uh the way that my my money comes in, it's

not um I don't get a normal paycheck.

It's not a nineto-ive job. I get paid by the mile and how many miles I drive is

basically up to my employer. Um, and

>> I'll tell you what, let's let's reverse engineer this and I'm going to ask some questions for George to gather some info. Uh, he's going to help you on this. Let's talk about your bills. So, besides the student loan debt, um, well,

first tell me what is the collective amount that is due every month on the student loan?

>> Currently nothing. >> Okay. Currently nothing. >> Okay. So, you're not paying on it. So, what are your bills? >> Not paying on it, but it's bit uh well, we have the mortgage, which is about $1,200 a month. >> Okay. >> The insurance comes up to about another

$650 a month.

>> Okay. >> Uh I got a car payment, which is five

509 a month. >> Okay. And that's not counting my medication, which comes up to about maybe 110 every

month. Uh, and then

just the normal day-to-days. I I have an electric car, so whatever my other bills

are, I >> I share everything with my mother because uh I help take care of her.

>> So tell us a little bit more about the irregular payment. I understand it's irregular, but on average, if you look at the last 12 months, how often are you getting paid?

>> I get paid every two weeks.

>> I thought you said it was irregular.

>> Well, it's it's irregular as far as the amount comes. >> So, what's a bad month? What's a good month? Because it's not zero.

>> No, a bad month. A bad month is

uh net 29 about 2,900.

>> Okay. Okay. Well, that covers all the bills you just said. So, a bad month still allows you to survive. What's a good month?

>> Uh

maybe 38 39.

>> And is that related to activity? So, if I understood what you said, your your paycheck amount is is directly related to how much you're in the truck.

>> Yes. >> Well, why aren't you getting more opportunity in the truck?

>> It it we have contracts. The company I work for has contracts with Albertson's and Kroger, Fred Meyer Group.

>> Okay. I'm I want George to take the take over here, but I but this is this is how he and I kind of tag team. I I'm just wondering, is it not time for us to get a more reliable trucking job and we also have a degree that we have a student loan for and and we'll get to this, but

I'm just wondering if this is not the time when George helps you with the budget part of this. We need more consistent and quite better income. So, we'll come back to that, but I'm just going to stick that in your ear so that soaks in a little bit. George, take over. >> What's your degree in?

>> I was paid to stop my degree my senior year. >> Okay. What were you pursuing?

>> Uh, started out studying to become a business turnaround. So, I was studying accounting. Uh, and two years into that

degree, my uh parole officer told me that they weren't going to allow me to be licensed. I went to uh prison for uh

an aggravated battery and after I got out I started studying to become a business turnaround and then I ended up switching to communication after they told me that they weren't going to license me. >> Okay. Okay. And then you never finished but you had the debt hanging around anyways.

>> Uh no no that was when I was building the debt. I was going to school and collecting the financial aid so I can study to get that degree.

>> Right. >> Okay. And what what's your car loan?

What's the whole balance?

>> Uh 22, no 219, I think is what I got left on it. >> So 22 on the car, 80,000 in student loans. Any other debts? Credit card balance, medical debt, personal loan,

>> uh uh the school, the mortgage,

>> not counting the mortgage. You you told me the 80 for school and 22 on the car.

Anything else?

I have approximately

$3,500 in personal debt for um charge

off accounts um um for for businesses

that I done I I'd done uh business with.

But >> um >> so we're over 100,000 in debt. We're making 70. I'm just trying to get to the math of it and kind of take the emotion and the and the story and the narrative out because obviously you've been through some things and you you said on the call, I want to turn around my life and money is just one part of it.

>> Yeah. >> So, are you wanting to stay in the trucking world?

>> I'm sorry. >> Are you wanting to stay in the trucking field?

>> It's the only thing that I could think of that I can do that's going to pay the money that I can make now. Before that, I was I was in a nowhere mid-management.

>> Yeah. uh making maybe $45, $50,000.

>> And I'm fine with that. I I think short term we just need to focus on the money and you need a better trucking job. You need a better driving job. But I think George can help you with this budget.

>> I think right now you you said you live with your mom. Is she covering half the bills or are you covering all of her bills? >> She's getting um she she gets uh uh

social security.

>> Okay. And are you paying 1,200 bucks? Is that the whole mortgage or is that half?

>> No. No, it's the it's the mortgage. Um

that's just the mortgage. That's Yeah, the mortgage. And that doesn't count the insurance and Yeah. Okay. everything else. >> Well, here here's what you got to do.

You're going to have to decide that you're going to take control of every single dollar coming in. And every extra dollar beyond your barebones bills is going to go towards knocking out these debts. And you're just going to look at it from smallest to largest. Right now, you've got a mountain you're looking at.

You need to break these all out cuz I'm I'm Are these all student loans? Like are there 11 student loans in this mix or is it just one giant one?

>> One giant one from what I understand.

>> You did a consolidation.

I >> I think they consolidated. I called and told them that that's what I wanted to do but um they held off. I explained to them my circumstances and they >> So are you in like a deferment forbearance situation where the interest is acrewing >> and you're just not needing to make payments cuz you got to start making payments cuz that balance is going to go from 80 to 100 real quick when you're not attacking it. So hang on the line.

I'm going to gift you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

It comes with a Get Clear Career Assessment. I hope that helps on the job search as you build something out of that. And then also Every Dollar, our premium budgeting tool to help you take control of every dollar coming in. We're rooting for you to turn around your life, man. You've been through a lot and you just got to climb out one day at a time, one step at a time. Keith, very simple formula. Use every dollar. Get control of your money and then go make more money. Those two simple things change your life.

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[Music]

[Music]

>> All right, we're going to Paul in Knoxville, Tennessee. Paul, how can we help today?

>> Hey, George. Ken, how y'all doing?

>> Uh, we're having a little too much fun today. What's going on with you?

Uh well I have a um I I'll give you my

question just at the very uh basic. It's

um simply how do you or or I as a

husband and father balance providing for

my family with being you know an active

present godly leader for my wife and kids. >> Okay I appreciate the question. That's about 75,000 feet in the air. We need to get a lot lower.

>> All right. >> So let me give you some back. >> Well let me dig. Let me dig and it might save us all some time. Okay. So, when somebody asks that question, >> uh we're talking to somebody who um is

feeling guilty um because you're spending a lot of hours outside the house working and maybe you're getting a little bit of pressure or ask or your heart's a little sad because you're away from the family. Is that true?

>> Actually, for me, it's the other way around. I uh just recently started a new job after being laid off for three months. >> Okay. and it's a good job. It's great benefits. Um, but according to my budget, it's not enough take-home pay to make ends meet. So, my first instinct, you know, what I what I was originally thinking was I need to get a second job.

You know, flip burgers, stock shelves on the weekends. But if I did, I wouldn't

see much in my wife and kids.

>> Okay. But how much more money do you need to make? So, you've been laid off for three months. Part of this is you've been home probably for a good amount of that time.

Yeah, >> you got used to it. And uh how old are the kids?

>> Um almost to 8, 10, and 12.

>> And I can tell you the 12-y old >> working from home at my previous job, too. So >> that's what's going on. Your kids are okay. The 2-year-old has no clue.

2-year-old has no clue, has no understanding of time. So the 2-year-old's not going, "Boy, daddy's not around like he was." The 12-year-old's getting to the point where they don't care. Uh, if I'm being honest, I got three teenagers. So, I think you're making this thing a little bit bigger. You've got a responsibility first and foremost to take care of the family and make a contribution. So, more

money, less time is okay for a season if

that's what it takes to work into a better situation. So, let's look at the numbers. All right. So, how much more

money do you need to make? Which is now you're going, well, I need this much more and that is why I have to do the second job. How much more money do we need to make? Yeah, I'm short about $1,200 a month.

>> Okay. What are you making?

>> I'm making 61141 a year.

>> Okay. What were you making?

>> I was making 82 a year.

>> Doing what?

>> Uh software developer.

>> And what are you doing now?

>> Um computer programmer analyst. Similar but not quite the same. And is that the reason for the drop in pay is because the role is that much different?

>> Uh mostly uh part of it is uh just the area

I'm in uh doesn't you know it's kind of a you know lower cost of living so the income is generally a little bit lower >> and the remote the remote gig the remote gig was with a company that's not local.

>> Uh it's it's close but they were just paying at a higher rate.

>> Okay. Well, so and I know you can't see the future, but what would need to be true for you to be getting back to the 80 the 81 or whatever it was?

>> Well, I would either need uh you know, some kind of promotion um at the job I'm at um or I could find something else. My

big issue is the job I've got. It's a government job. The the benefits are fantastic. Uh, you know, if I included all the benefits, you know, I'd be I'd be making, you know, probably 82.

>> Yeah. But the benefits are so great.

>> You can't live off of it. >> Can't put food on the table. But man, this 401 403b is amazing. The match is

great. >> So, had I asked you a minute ago, did you take this job because you were a bit desperate and you just needed AJ O, or did you take it because it's got a great path to what you want to do? I know what the answer is now. You just took it because of a >> Yeah. Um yeah, I'm uh yeah, we're, you

know, scratching through the couch cushions, you know, looking for >> change. So So George, would you agree second job is absolutely a must right now? And the kids, you know, that'll help you to get a better job.

>> Yeah, it's a band-aid, though. We got to solve the the root problem here because I don't want you working a side hustle for the next 12 years to make this work.

So what's at the root of this? Do you guys have debt you're trying to pay off?

>> Uh yeah. Uh we had started the uh the

baby steps, you know, about five months ago and got the uh you know, got the the

baby step one completed. We were starting on step two. You know, barely started into it when I got laid off.

>> How much debt do you have right now? What's the total balance excluding a mortgage?

>> Excluding the mortgage, I'm at $10,94845.

>> Okay. So, we got 10 grand to knock out.

And that'll free up how much in payments every month? Yeah.

>> Uh that'll free up something like

$700 a month.

>> Okay. That's a nice raise. >> That becomes the new number cuz I'm going, hey, once we clear this debt now, this is the foreseeable future. We got to clean up that $700 gap.

And we can do that uh I think with a full-time job in the long term and some short-term side hustles right now. And is your wife at home with the kids all day? And are they are they in school? What's going on there?

uh she isn't home all day. She homeschools well three out of four of them and uh you know just yeah generally you know keeps the house running keeps the kids from burning it down.

>> Uh no she's pretty hands-on uh at this point. you know, the older ones are getting a little bit of some online stuff, but uh you know, a lot of it.

Yeah, she's she's >> working. I'm going to challenge you. You didn't call this show for us to just clap for you. I'm going to challenge you. Maybe we need to change that homeschool rhythm because if she is a able-bodied working adult in the house and you guys are in the position you are, this is about a better life and I

don't, you know, I'm not going to just, you know, there's a way for these kids to do homeschool and she can work some more.

And maybe you're home in the evenings and she goes out to do the side hustle.

If she's just dying to get out of the house, she can go make the money and you can be home with the kids if you want. But I don't think this is about being present with your family when you're a stressed dad at home all day knowing you're 1,200 bucks short.

>> You're not going to be very present with the family until you solve this math problem.

>> That's a good point. >> Is your mortgage eating up a lot of your take-home pay?

Uh mortgage is eating up pretty uh pretty significant amount. I've got uh 172,000 on the mortgage. It's comes to about $1,200 a month.

>> And what are you bringing home every month? >> Oh, and I'm well I don't know yet, but

uh I just started this job, but uh based on my salary and benefits and everything, I'm bringing home about 3900 a month. >> What if you stopped all investing for a season?

>> How much are you investing right now? Yeah, actually that is uh stopping all investing. Uh there's a mandatory 5% that comes out for p for pension, but uh

you know the the only uh thing that's coming out is uh that 5% and uh medical

dental vision and uh taxes.

>> Okay. Well, in the interim, we're going to have to get hustling on the weekends and evenings. Maybe once the kids are down, you help put the kids down and then you're out for three hours doing side gigs. But I would be applying for better software development jobs.

There's no reason for a guy in your shoes with your skill set to not be making six figures. >> Yeah. >> So I think you got to bet on yourself and find that role where your skill set fits perfectly whether it's remote in person doesn't matter. But we need to start making a hundred grand if you want to not be >> That's right. >> struggling to find margin every month.

>> And and the I will tell you this in today's economy we are seeing the slowdown in the in the hiring.

>> And so I acknowledge that. But I will tell you that with your technology skill, um, you should be looking at not just any side job. You're looking for technology roles that are in your field are going to pay better. So, let's not just go get any second job that's bringing in money. Let's try to get the best. Now, what you're doing, I admire you. Let's let's band it at first, but we want this to heal. So, uh, contract

work in technology is the best chance you have to get paid. And again, it's not fun advice. Uh but your wife's got to find a way to work as well, something. And and and again, it doesn't mean she stops the homeschooling, but uh

we've got to free up some time for her somehow some ways that friends, family, whatever, for a season to get rid of this debt. And once we get rid of the debt, now we got a little bit more breathing room to the tune of $700 a month. And then hopefully you are making more. So, uh listen, it's a hard road, but it's a clear road. So, thanks for the call and you can get there. We're cheering you on.

[Music]

[Music]

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[Music]

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Aaron is now joining us in Little Rock, Arkansas. Aaron, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, yeah, thank you for taking my call. I really appreciate it. You bet.

>> Um, I started the baby step about two

months ago. Um, I'm a single mom of three boys and I have three jobs. Uh,

one corporate job and then two side gigs I do. Um, >> I have paid off about $5,000 in the last two months of my debt.

>> Great job. >> Super excited about that. Um, but looking forward, Christmas is coming.

Uh, and I heard on one of your guys' shows to set a a price limit um for each

child instead of, oh, you know, they'd like this, they'd like that. So, I'm trying to get a um opinion on what a

good price range is.

>> Oh, we get to decide >> how worthy these children are. This is a lot of a lot of power for Christmas gifts. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> And how much debt do you have left to pay off? Um, I've got just about 29,000.

>> Okay. 29K. So, at this rate, we're going

to knock it out, you know, by summer. Is that the goal? >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the very latest,

the end of next year. >> Okay. >> Assuming, you know, nothing happens.

>> I feel like George should be George Claws on this cuz he's a little tighter, little cheaper than I am. I'm a little bit more generous. We just know this.

And >> I would get a little more frugal and creative. And Ken's going, "Just buy the thing they want." Do you know what they want? >> No, I wouldn't say that. Uh, but man, that's tough. How many kids?

>> I have three. >> How old are they?

>> They are 11, eight, and five.

>> 11, eight, and five. Boys, girls,

>> boys. All boys. >> Party. See, part of the problem is I'm out of that game. I don't know what an 11year-old and 8-year-old, and 5-year-old Are they wanting like motorized scooters? Like, what are they into these days? They want PS5s, which I've told them is not within my budget. And >> Oh, yeah. No, we're not doing that.

Certainly not plural.

>> Yeah, that's wild. That's a wild ask.

>> Um, well, I here, listen. Okay, I'm not trying to be a politician.

>> Do you have a number, by the way? I'm going somewhere with this. >> Do I have a number? >> What did you spend last year on them?

>> I have no idea.

>> Oh, well, that's probably >> because here's the thing. Kids don't understand the concept of what a thing costs. So if you were like, I'm spending $100 on each of you, they don't care.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's more about what did he get versus what did the other kid >> Did you go crazy last year? That's why you don't know how much you spent.

>> Yes. Yeah. I know. I've gone crazy every year. You know, I don't I haven't kept track of how much I've bought them for

Christmas. Um >> how much of this, if you can be honest, is out of just guilt for like what they've been through and endured?

Uh 90% probably. Yeah.

>> Okay. And is it working so far? Have you been able to just like buy their love?

>> I mean, no. No, obviously not.

>> Cuz the truth is you're an amazing mom regardless of a thing you buy them, right? That's right. >> Yeah. >> What's the number you have in your head?

Because you don't call us and ask a question like this without a number in your head. >> Yeah. Um I My absolute top is probably

like 500.

>> 500 total. >> Absolute top. But uh per child.

>> Goodness gracious.

>> The absolute top. But hence why I'm calling because I feel like >> I knew George was going to react. >> I tell you, my heart said a hundred bucks each, we're all going to have a great Christmas or do something that's an experiential thing where we spend 250 and it's like the day of their life. You know what I mean?

Like we're going to the arcade. We're doing Chucky.

>> I agree. I'll tell you something. This is an idea we got from a couple that was mentoring Stacy and I when we were younger and had younger kids and I thought it was great and and um and that

is the idea that biblically speaking Jesus got three gifts right that's and the idea was let's go less gifts >> and let's make those gifts significant and to George's point maybe an experience not money you know is there some type of fun experience or something we collectively do as a family right that's really special and you can explain to them but We did this early on because

we wanted our kids to appreciate the fact that you had one really really awesome gift and there was some really good gifts, but we were trying to take the value of all the things and and I

competing with my friends, what do my friends get? And we were trying to make it a little bit more central to the fact of what are we really celebrating at Christmas, you know? Is it just the gathering of things and we get down on Christmas morning and we just can't wait to see all the amazing stuff we got?

We've lost sight of what Christmas is about. And uh so I I'm with George. I

think $500 per kid in your situation is is nuts. It's too much.

>> Yeah. Well, I'm a little nuts though, you know. >> No, you're awesome. You're fine.

Well, you've got a generous spirit. And right now, we just It's a luxury to be that generous with where we're at financially. And the kids can't understand that right now. I don't think you need to go to them and be like, "Hey, mom's broke.

It's going to be a different like we don't need to be somber about it.

And that might kind of flip a switch in their brain.

>> Yeah. I mean, in the past, we've always done, you know, quite a few of what you want and then uh something you need and something to do.

>> And what if what if you did this? What if you said, "I'm going to give you something." And then on top of that, you're going to give something and it lets them flex some generosity muscle and you put that into the budget >> because I think that that will distract them from the thing and make them go, "Man, that was actually more fun to give that person $10 or $50 than it was to

get a thing." Uh Stacy did that one year with our kids. They all got really great gifts and they had to choose one that they had to give away. >> Oh, that's fun. >> And she took them down to the children's hospital and it was a great experience.

>> That's really cool. And it wasn't like like we didn't cheat for them and go here's a really ratty present and make it easy for them, you know? It was like something they had they felt it >> and that's a great idea and I forgot that she did that. >> Yeah.

And maybe it's one big like bigger gift that they can all enjoy all three of them. You know what I mean? But I don't think everybody needs their separate thing to feel special. I think we need to break that right now before it becomes a entitlement where they don't >> What did you say?

>> I feel like 100 a kid is fair. like 300 bucks all in. What is a PlayStation 5 going for these days?

>> A used one? >> I don't even know. >> I would see what Do you know what a used one goes for? >> I couldn't tell you. One of these nerds in the booth probably knows. >> Anybody in there? >> I I know a brand new one's probably 600.

>> 600 is new. You could probably find a used one for maybe 400.

>> I just know that like three little boys like that, a PlayStation that works.

That's pretty awesome. And if you can get it in that budget, then there's your Hey guys, here's what mom's doing. She's paying off debt. Here's what do I got you all this.

And that's the gift that keeps on giving. >> Yeah, I was right. It's You're looking at uh I see one for 250 out here on Facebook Marketplace. >> There it is.

250 for the used PlayStation 5. By the way, James just got into his laptop quickly. I don't know if he's getting one for himself. >> I might buy one right now off Facebook Marketplace.

>> Will the engineer, you have an opinion on this? >> Okay, go a scam. It's a scam. Wow.

to trust. >> It's 500 for a used one.

>> It's going for That's closer. It's 4.

Super helpful guy in the lobby giving me a lot of headshakes and thumbs up and down. Very helpful.

I don't think he knows. I think he's too old to look that up. >> Will, you're saying 500.

>> This is like Price is right. This is fantastic. >> We got the audience involved. All right, I see you, sir.

That's enough. Okay, go get a cookie. I would start uh exploring ideas, Aaron, and I would try to shy away from getting the expensive thing or getting them each a thing that will appease them because nothing's going to appease them. They're always going to want for more the next game, the next thing.

But here's the deal. Here's the narrative. Those guys are not too young to understand a mom's going through something tough >> and that she loves them and that their quality of life is still the same. I think it's okay to teach them.

I really do. They're gonna be okay.

thinking that I had it all. And as I grew older, George, I realized how poor My dad was a pastor of a small church.

We had nothing. And I thought life was great. >> You didn't know any better. >> I didn't know any better.

I had jeans with patches on them. You remember those children? >> Oh, yeah. >> Simpler times.

>> I thought it was normal. I thought everybody had patches on their knees. My final answer is let's do a dream day and each kid gets to do a thing during that day and we all experience it together and we keep it in the budget at 300 and we get creative and have some fun and they're going to remember that way more than a toy. Promise you that.

There it is. Final word from Georgie Claus.

gift that keeps on giving. Ho ho ho.

[Music]

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are

completely preventable.

>> Yeah. And what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, "Oh, it's terrible." or people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. We actually took a question of a lady and she had three kids pregnant and husband didn't have life insurance and and I'm like I can't even imagine or even if it was opposite, right? If if a mom passed away, there's a dad with kids and trying to figure out how am I going to afford child care?

How do I how do I outsource some stuff that maybe she was doing like and and it just takes the grief and the sadness of something like a sudden death to a whole new level.

next week? >> Yeah. How in the middle of all that grief? Like it's just it is it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive.

Xander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance and we keep re-upping it because I'm like I just want it there. Like there's something about that safety of knowing that you have money if something suddenly happens. >> And it doesn't cost much cuz Xander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much.

You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, "I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place." The cost of stinking pizza. >> It really is. So that is one thing to do to say I love you to your family.

So, we've used Xander for all of our family's needs for insurance for many years, including, of course, term life insurance.

That's 800356-4282 or go to xander.com.

[Music]

All right, welcome back. Uh, this is really fun. From time to time, George, we get an opportunity because of the size of the show and uh Dave's friends, right? FOD's friends of Dave and we get

a chance to get some really special people in studio with us because they're doing great things and uh this is another one of those days in studio with George and I right now the one, the only, the icon Bear Grills, ladies and

gentlemen. So that's really fun. Bear, welcome. >> So kind. That's such a nice introduction. Thank you. >> Well, I got to tell you, uh, having talked to Bear, we recorded a show a little bit earlier for Front Row Seat. That'll be coming out. >> Looking forward to that. >> Bear could read the phone book and I'd be inspired. >> Yeah. How much of your success do you attribute to a great accent?

>> I don't know. Probably a little bit of it. I I think we all stand on the shoulders of giants. I think maybe that's one of them. Maybe it's one of the pillars. Yeah. I don't think I don't think it's the reason for it, but I think >> my name actually may be the name. Let's

be honest, you're rather handsome.

>> I'll take the comfort. >> I'm comfortable saying that. And then you throw in the accent. How do you how do you fail? >> Yeah. I know you got talent, character, you know, entertainment value.

>> You got it all, Barry. >> You're so kind. You like make anyone feel better. >> We're trying to. But, you know, you might be thinking he's here to talk about one of his newest shows. He's not.

In fact, uh this is a brand new book came out this week. It's called The Greatest Story Ever Told. And uh this is a fantastic book just came out this week wherever books are available. And I think this might surprise some. It won't surprise others who have followed your journey know that you are a man of faith. Uh what is behind what is this story and what's behind it? Well, it's

telling the story of Christ as a like a as a thriller, you know, just start to finish because I think so many people, myself included, you might not just like read the Bible, you know, if if if you have faith, the Bible obviously is like milk and honey. It's beautiful, but it's it's straight. It's, you know, and I think so many people I meet a have never read it, but also don't know the story.

You know, we tend to know stories maybe like the nativity or the crucifixion or the good Samaritan. And I just realized out of all the millions of books that have been written over the years, nobody's ever written the story of Christ just like as a short punchy thriller that that kind of introduces

people to the story of Yeshua is what I

call him in in in the book. So we take it strip it right back away from the sanitized version sometimes we get of of

of Christianity. And certainly that that's what I was brought up with. It's like we had to go to church as a kid at school and everything was in Latin and I just thought God speaks in Latin and he has white robes and generally looks quite angry, you know. And for me it's been a life journey realizing that the the the character of Jesus was just free and beautiful and radical and fun and everyday people just wanted to be with him and who's counterculture and turned everything else on his head and was healing and challenging.

the journey. I wanted to write it in a book. It's been to be honest the most

been the hardest but the best thing I feel I've ever done. I get more people responding to me about this than any TV show ever done. I've had I mean it we published it a few months in the in the UK and it went straight in at number one and I get messages all day every day from like people of every faith, every culture >> all around the world and they say the same thing basically which is I had no idea of the real story of Jesus

>> and as you know it it touches all of our lives. A real story like empowers our lives and is light and love and like I

say proudest thing I've ever done.

>> I love that. Well, I'm I'm curious. We end every Ramsay show with this line.

Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus. So, we have an underpinning of faith at this company, and you've taken that everywhere you've went in Hollywood, in Netflix. H how do you sort of bring that faith underpinning into everything you do?

>> Well, I really like that. I think it was St. Augustine this said uh preach the

gospel of Christ every day in all places to all police people at all times where necessary use words.

>> Yes. >> And I love that. I think it's trying how we live our lives. A little kindness is you know the wild does it so often as well.

I think it's what I love about the show Running World I do is I get to introduce people to the great outdoors and that lights them up and that's like really is that not wrapped up in faith and everything and connection and friendships and having an understanding and a love of of each other and the outdoors as well. So I don't know I like that part of it but I I kind of think it's a shame if faith just gets boxed in a corner of our lives to Sunday.

And that was the Jesus that I got to learn about through this book. And we work with some brilliant theologians from the chosen TV show, from the Come and See Foundation, who have been incredible and supportive and encouraging for the greatest story ever told. But I feel like it's no longer my

book. I feel like it's out there and it's touching lives and I'd give everything else up in a heartbeat to have done this one. >> He's Bear Grills. He's hanging out with us here on the Ramsay Show. The new book is the greatest story ever told. Uh what I love about this is you did your homework. You you dug in deep with theologians and this is written in first person uh by five eyewitnesses. That

makes us really fun. Uh as you began to

construct the book that way, was there something that surprised you? maybe you didn't know as you began to put this together. >> I think just how human Jesus was. You know, we always get the idea of the and also how human the disciples were. I mean, I always thought the disciples were like old. You know, the average age of the disciples 15 to 25.

>> Wow. >> They were like just regular young guys, young girls. And so I wanted to write the greatest story from eyewitness accounts. So we start with Mary, his mother, just nervous, young, scared, have having a child out of wedlock, you know, becoming pregnant and and her journey of faith and and trust through

to Thomas who's super skeptical of this Yeshua who turns up on the scene and refuses to be persuaded by rumors and

miracles. And then it goes to this the friendship with this reckless impulsive fisherman Peter through very clinical sort of John and then eventually with Mary Magdalene who's just young and broken and just had her life healed by this guy. And so it's their interactions because I think all of us this story the greatest story ever told is all of our stories wrapped up in it. You know whoever we are whether we're the nervous or the excited or the scared or the broken he uh he affirms and heals

everywhere. And still to this day, we look at we're 2,000 almost 2,000 years

on and we're talking about him and he's changing lives and long may that continue. >> You know, it's interesting. This is a bold claim. This is a pretty bold title when you think about it to the cynics because we have a we have a wide audience. Some people are going, "All right, I'm an atheist or I'm a cynic or whatever." Uh what makes it the greatest

story in your mind? Well, if it's true, you know, this isn't like could be the greatest story ever told or potentially the greatest story ever told. If this is true, it changes everything in all our

lives, in all interactions, for all time. So, it's like that I stand behind.

This is if it is true, this is the greatest story ever told. And I feel that in my life, you know, I have many struggles and doubts still, you know, all the time. But through it all, ever since I was a young teenager and I prayed a prayer under a tree just saying, "Please God be with me. Amen." That was it.

A light was lit. It's never gone out. It's helped me through my time with the special forces as a young soldier, through the summit of Everest and many jungles, deserts, mountains over the years since.

It's been the great empowering presence.

And it's a privilege to be able to share it wider through this story.

>> That's beautiful. Yeah. Thinking about everything that you've done, I feel like you got to believe in God to be doing some of the wild things you've done. You got to have a higher power, you know, fueling that journey. Is there is there something that you have coming up next that you're like, "This scares me a little bit." Cuz you seem a guy who's fearless, who's ready for anything?

>> I'm not fearless. And uh I I have many,

like I said, really genuinely many struggles, many doubts. It's like the journey of life, isn't it? But I I love my job. You know, I still continue with the day job away from this. We've just finished uh filming season 9 of Running Wild, which is going to be great. But this is in my heart.

>> I love it. Well, I'm really inspired by the fact that you took this message using your gigantic platform and said, "This is what I want to put out there. This is more important than any show, anything I could be doing." >> Well, people always ask, they go, "What helped you on the summit of Everest or in these jungles or mountains?" And I don't want to stand up and say, "I did it on my own." Because I didn't. You know, I I need like a a human.

It's like a glove without a hand, >> you know. Without faith, we're just this limp thing, you know, but with that hand inside of ourselves, we can all live life. Uh >> thank you for being with us. The book is The Greatest Story Ever Told on sale anywhere.

You're a good man. Thanks for being with us. >> Thank you guys. Thank you.

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[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio alongside George Camel. I'm Ken Coleman. So glad you all are with us. We're having fun today as we take on your heavy questions. George is going to help you manage the money. I'm going to help you try to make more money. Let's get to it.

You ready to go, George? >> I'm pumped. >> Natalie is joining us in Sacramento.

Natalie, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, I was just curious if my husband

and I should use part of our savings to start to pay off our loans faster or if

we should just keep that in the bank.

>> Tell us more.

>> How much do you have in the bank? >> My husband and I are both veterans. Um,

we have about 12,500

in savings.

>> Okay. And what's your debt situation?

Um, we have about $87,298

in debt. We have two student loans and a

new car and a credit card.

>> Okay. Give us those amounts. Walk us smallest to largest like we would be working through the debt snowball.

>> Yeah, the uh credit card is 1903.

So 1,93.

The student loan is 19581.

The other one is 20,978.

And then the car loan is 44836.

>> Woo. What is this car?

>> Yeah.

So, uh, it's a 2022 4Runner.

>> And what what is it worth? Kelly Blue Book value. Do you know?

>> I don't.

>> Okay. Wow. How many miles is it?

>> Um, just over 30,000.

>> And it's a 2022. All right. I'm going to do a little research, George. Okay.

While you do that, what is your household income?

Um, so our income is

I had this um

between the two paychecks is 4,960

and then we get VA disability and that's

about 4,080 4,90. >> Okay, good. So we have a great income here because you guys are bringing home >> Yeah. >> 9 grand. >> Yeah. >> Correct. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Yes. >> So, I think one thing that could alleviate this immediately cuz you're you're asking the best way to pay this off. Yes, you should use your savings except $1,000. That's the baby steps.

Baby step one, $1,000. Baby step two, attack the debt using the debt snowball.

So, anything that's not the $1,000 starter emergency fund, we're going to use to start knocking down this debt because that'll knock out your credit cards and a good portion of one of the student loans.

>> Yeah. And if I'm in your shoes and you really want to get out of the situation, I would just sell this 4ERunner. Now, you might be underwater on it, which is what Ken was angling at. >> They are. It's this is an estimate, and I don't have all the details of where you are in the market, but you're underwater. It's somewhere between 32 to $40,000.

>> So, that's your next homework assignment is figure out what you could sell this car for, private party value. So, you can go to kbb.com and and look at that to see, hey, if we could sell it for 40 and we owe 44, great. We're going to use 4,000 of the savings to clear the title and maybe use some of the other money in savings to get a different car, right?

You need something to drive around in.

>> Mhm. >> You're both working full-time.

>> Yeah. His truck is paid off, so it's just this now. My car died, so I had to get a new one. That's kind of >> Hold on. Hold on. Whoa. You didn't have to get a 40. You didn't have to get backwards. >> I know. You didn't have to get that car.

>> I know. I know. So, what's your what's your car payment?

>> Uh 60 wait $667.

>> All right. Just for fun, I want you to just, you know, figure out what that would do to your monthly budget. That's a lot of money. >> You would get an $8,000. That's a net raise. So, that's more like 11 or 12,000 gross. >> Yeah. >> So, imagine I just started giving you a,000 bucks a month. Would you go yip?

>> Yeah. >> That's what selling that car will do for you. And you have to look at it that way. Or else it's Ken and George are mean. They're not fun. They're telling me it's unrealistic.

>> Well, it's not.

>> But, you know, getting a piece of junk that gets you from point A to point B for this season of your life. This is for a season. This is not like forever.

Uh I I think that's huge for you. What caused you guys to want to actually turn this ship around?

>> Uh I've been listening to you guys on YouTube a lot the past month. So,

>> so we just got into your head cuz we didn't show up. You had to be kind of looking for >> We want to We want to move out of California and we want to eventually adopt and get a house and all that. And

I know we cannot do that with all this debt. We need to work on this debt now.

>> Good. Is your husband on board? Is he as fired up as you are? >> Oh, yeah. Completely. >> And you got the income. >> Completely. He's actually wanting me to spend more to to pay towards the debt

than we have been. But >> what's stopping it? >> That's >> uh I've been trying to build up our savings. I'm thinking about what, you know, putting money down on a house.

No, that's too far in the future. I know. I see that now. I see that.

>> Well, but you've been listening to us for a month. So, have you heard us talk about the baby steps? I I don't want to just assume anything. Okay.

I I and that's why I'm like, okay, well, I've done step one. Technically, I'm on step two, but I have part of step three, but I need to just stop and do it step by step. >> Well, you've got 125 in savings.

So, what what do we tell people to do if they've got $12,500 in savings and they have debt? What do we tell?

>> Pay it towards the debt. >> How much how much do we take out of that 125?

Well, I'm assuming it's going to be the 115. >> You got it. Tell her what she's won.

George, uh, raise to the tune of $1,000

once we sell this car. So, here's what I would consider doing instead of using the savings to pay down the debt. I would get out of this car situation first. And so, you might be underwater by a few grand. That's true. >> Let's let's use that to clean that up.

Then, we're going to take, let's say, another 6 or 7,000 and get yourself a used reliable car. Do a pre-purchase inspection. It's probably going to have a 100,000 plus miles on it. It's probably going to have some stains that you'd rather not see. But this is for a season. This is not your forever car.

This is like a year or two max as we get to a place of financial stability because you told me you want to adopt.

That's a big dream of yours, isn't it?

>> Mhm. >> You want to have your own place, your own house in a different state. That's a big dream of yours, isn't it? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, that dream's bigger than a vehicle.

We can always get another car, can't we?

Yep. >> So, most of that savings uh or not most, but a good chunk of it's going to go to whatever this beater is, right? And I'm thinking a $5,000 car max.

>> That that clears half your debt. That's like cut your jail sentence in half an hour. That car payment now goes into the debt snowball. That's huge. You can make some real groundup, can't you?

>> Yeah. >> So, your husband's right. It's rare that we say this on the show. It's mostly the wife is usually right. And I've been married 27 years, so I'm conditioned to say my wife is right. But in this case, your husband's right. You need to be putting more into this. And you guys are rice and beans. If Dave were here, he'd be going, "You guys don't see the inside of a restaurant unless you're waiting tables." >> And it's rice and beans, beans and rice,

and you guys are just absolutely on fire to get this out of your life. That same

intensity continues into that emergency

fund of 3 to six months. Now we can

begin to save for the house and begin to charge. >> Check this out. If you knock out this car, you got 42 left and you start throwing four or five grand a month at it. You're done with this in 8 months.

>> Woo! I like that.

>> So, this house is going to be a whole lot closer versus keeping this car around while it goes down in value. You stay underwater. I think this thing is is tanking your financial future. Get rid of it. You know what Bear Grills would say? What's that? Jolly good.

Spot on. Not quite. I'm working on it.

[Music]

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[Applause] >> All right, Gabe is up in Pittsburgh.

Gabe, how can we help today?

>> Hey, thank you for taking my call. Um, basically I'm a first year uh college student. I uh I have $30,000 saved up from uh working in high school and I'm basically wondering what I can do for passive income with this saved money I have while I'm working in or while I'm in school right now.

>> So, first of all, good job to save up $30,000 from high school.

>> That's fantastic. And you're going to graduate debtree?

>> Uh yeah, my parents are paying for school. >> Nice. So, you want, if I understood your question right, you're asking us for our ideas on how to take some of the 30,000

and and create some passive income. Is that what I'm hearing?

>> Correct. So, I'll just let this is what I've done so far, but I'm sure there's stuff I could be doing better. I have three grand in a Roth. I have 10 grand in the CD that's paying out 4% in a month. So, I'll get 400 on that. I have another 10 grand in a money market. And then I have seven grand in my savings.

You may not >> playing around with a little bit of stocks. >> Okay. Well, you may not like 500 bucks.

>> You may not like my answer and I can tell you Tik Tockers and Instagrammers will hate my answer and that's okay because I don't care. Um,

I have interviewed over my time here at Ramsey alone a lot of people that are experts in passive income.

And I will tell you that every one of those people, I'm looking at Will Ruer who's engineering today on the board.

He's heard me do a lot of these. Every one of them will told me there's nothing passive about what I'm teaching. The the

concept of passive income is I'm putting my money to work for me and I'm not you know we some people call mailbox money.

I like to joke about it. George has heard me say it a thousand times. Um

and and there's just not such a thing. So they'll at they'll go, "Okay, we know what passive income is and I'm an expert in it, but it's not passive. There's a

lot of work that goes into it or a lot

of work that is on the front end of it that then gets you to the place where it's a Tim Ferrris thing, George, where it's a 4-h hour work week or whatever.

And so I think of like a digital product. Um I created a digital product here at Ramsay. It's called the Get Clear Career Assessment. It's been very very successful.

It would meet the definition, George, of passive income in that people buy that all the time. uh while I'm sleeping, traveling, doing this show right now and it is being delivered off of a website with very little effort. Okay, that's the e. But there was a lot of blood, sweat, and tears on the front end of that.

So my answer is at this stage of your life because you're in school. I'd love to hear if you got a couple ideas and George and I can shark tank it, but my initial knee-jerk and George may disagree with me. George, my initial knee-jerk is to actually have you tell him how we would have him start investing that. what's the best way to invest that 30 and let's go ahead and get that working for us over the next three to four years uh because that's going to give us some better options.

I think you're in such a great place. That's what I'd recommend. George, is that too conservative? >> No.

And and Gabe, based on the way you're talking, you know a lot about, you know, finances and investing. You've done your homework. Uh now you're a little scattered. You got money all over the place and you're thinking about single stocks.

And so my fear for someone like you is you're on the precipice of losing your lunch because you go, "Oh, dude, I could get 10x my money if I put it in crypto maybe or you could lose it all tomorrow." So, it's your choice, you know, and so you get closer to gambling and speculation than you do investing. So, back to your question, passive income. I totally agree with Ken. >> Instead of asking how can I make money, ask what value can I create based on my passions and skills.

that's a digital product. That's a, you know, for me it was music. I did an album and I just got a sweet check for $10 this month, Ken.

>> Well, you know what? Let's go ahead >> work I did 10 years ago. >> Let's go ahead and plug the album cuz you did some hard work. >> Check it out on Spotify, Gabe. So that seriously, what's the album? >> It's called The Great Coward. I know. Truthfully, I was a musician. I passed lives. >> I know you were. You're a good musician.

>> And here's the thing, Gabe. I did that album and like Ford reached out to license the music on their YouTube channel and that made me more money than anybody streaming it on Spotify. that what I would do is go, what can I bring of value to the world, to people out there who have a problem? How do I solve that in a way that only I can do?

That's going to get you a lot closer than following a Tik Tok that says to buy a laundromat and buy an ATM and do leverage real estate, which I'm scared is what you're going to fall into if you continue down the path. >> Do you have an idea?

like the 300 bucks into the stock market

just because I I was new to it, but I haven't even thought about doing like a crazy amount or getting into crypto.

>> What's your goal? I'm >> not like too risk oriented. Uh I don't know. I mean, I'm I miss work is really what it is. I don't in school. I'm mad that I can't make more money, but I'm in school. I accepted it. I'll be working as soon as I'm done. >> What are you in school for? >> I'm in nursing. I'm in I'm a first year nursing student at uh University of Pittsburgh. Do you want to be a nurse?

>> I want to be a nurse anesthetist.

>> Great. So, this is part of the journey, right? >> Yeah, this is part of the journey. The first four. >> Also, is your are your parents cash flowing all of that schooling?

>> Uh, that's going to be pricey.

>> Uh, just just undergrad. Undergrad.

>> Well, that's what I'm getting at here. So, what's the graduate? >> I'm scared you're about to go 200 grand into debt postgrad.

>> I'm a little nervous. This call changed, which is good. I mean, you're what what's your plan? What is it going to cost you for your grad program?

>> Well, you need it. I after my four years, I would have to work for two years to get experience. I'd be getting a nursing salary. So, I'd be making money in those two years as I'm getting my experience before I can even apply to graduate school. >> Great. >> And then I should have a good bit saved up then. >> Okay. But >> And then also, >> but let's pause. How much I love this, but I want to get real numbers here.

What do you Because every grad school um

costs different. It's different. And a lot of times we get sucked in, we humans, to the to the uh sizzle factor

on a school when nobody cares. In fact, my wife just had knee surgery a couple weeks ago and I was with her when the when the nestist came in. And you know what, George? Neither one of us thought to ask where they went to school. So, what are you thinking? What's the cost that you're looking at that you've researched?

Um, for graduate school, it's probably uh looking at around 100 to 150,000.

>> All right. Now, here's the next question. Do you have the patience to work as a nurse for x amount of years to

be able to fully cash flow that?

>> No, you do not. And that's okay.

>> But here's the deal. I'm Yeah, it is a good question. Tell you why. Let me give you a little truth.

This is my challenge to you, George. I know this from coaching so many people, you know, who weren't happy and they want to get from point A to point B. Everybody, if I went on the street with a camera crew, you and I have done this before. And I said, "Hey, are you willing to do what it takes to get the dream job?" >> Oh, yeah.

Absolutely. >> And then I go like this. Are you willing to wait as long as it takes? And the answer cools.

And we just saw it with Gabe. Now, Gabe, that wasn't a gotcha question to make fun of you or to attack you.

>> Wait a second. Now, I'm going to give the baton to George. Okay, he's the anchor here. He's going to sprint home on this one. Walk him through why you

were afraid if he does what we just heard him say he's planning to do, which is take out a little bit of debt or some debt. Walk him through that. Well, Gabe,

you're going to take a, you know, a step forward and three steps back if you graduate with 200 grand in student loans

instead of a cash, you know, cash being cash positive, which you are now. And so the goal for me, for you is to stay in this position. And so now it is I that's why I was asking what your goal is because most people that are younger just go, I want to have a million by the time I'm 25. And I go, why?

They go, I don't know. I just feel like I'm running out of time. >> Yeah. >> And so you have time and you have a lot of skills.

You're a really sharp guy.

three years from now? >> Well, he needs a hundred cash flow.

Gabe, did I hear you right? You need a hundred, right? >> Yeah, about a hundred. All right. So, this 30, George, Gabe, this 30 sits in a

good account, >> like a high yield savings account, >> a high yield savings account because we're only needing 70 more. Now, in your

first two or three years as a nurse, if you're living like nobody else, the question is, can you save up the other 70? The answer is yes.

>> Yeah. >> George is a savings wizard.

>> George, he could make he could savings.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Just a high. So the the thing with your CD is your money's locked in there until it matures to whatever month you know you're locked into 12 months.

>> And so if you're going to need this money >> four months >> four months. So high yield savings right now the rates are about three and a half%. If you want a great one go to fairwinds.org/ramsey.

They've been a great partner of ours. They have an awesome high yield savings account and checking bundle. Uh I would open that up and just start stacking away money. Working stacking away money.

Every summer I'm working stacking away money. I would not get on Robin Hood and choose some single stocks. I would not try to create passive income through a business right now. Use the skills you have. Do what work you can do and just stack that money in a high yield savings and cash flow college.

>> All right. Yeah, I appreciate it, guys.

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Today's question comes from Nicholas in Washington. My parents, adult siblings, and I are all on a family phone plan, but live in different households.

Everyone agreed to pay their portion to the sibling who is designated the account owner. A few years ago, I started paying the monthly bill to prevent recurring overdue bills and plan cancellations. Since then, that sibling hasn't paid their portion. And when another sibling found out, they stopped repaying their portion, too.

I can and have been paying for both siblings. What the heck? The remaining siblings and parents pay regularly, and everyone's aware of the situation to the point of joking about it at family reunions. I want to maintain good relationships by prioritizing family over finances.

But is there a gentle way to convey that they're taking advantage of me? Or should I use Dave's principle of gifting and not loaning money to family in this situation? >> Oh boy, Nicholas, you've become a doormat. >> Yeah, we we don't gift when we're resentful and we think it's going to put a band-aid on it.

This is not the spirit of giving. Uh I don't understand why you haven't just shut down the account and go, "All right, everyone, every man for himself. We're all grown adults. Let's get our own phone plans." They're not >> I went Why are we as adults on the same cell phone plan?

>> This is crazy. My parents adult sibl like this is just a toxic codependency and they're take of course they're taking advantage of it.

Hey, I tell you what really rubbed me the wrong way is that everybody jokes about it. >> They're all laughing at him.

>> Exactly. >> They're not They're not laughing with you. They're laughing at you. >> I think so. >> Yeah. I would uh I'd put a draw a line here and go, "Hey guys, I'm going to get my own phone my phone plan. I'm out. You guys can figure it out if you want to stay on this, but I am out of the situation." Jump on to Boost Mobile.

It's like 20 bucks a month. It's not that expensive to have your own phone plan. There's really no benefit here for everyone being on the same plan and different households. It's messy.

>> Yeah. Just this just the the the reading of the question showed you how complex this thing is. It shouldn't be complex

here to get >> I'm an adult. I have my own cell phone plan. My siblings, >> they're adults. They have their own cell phone plan. What are we even talking about here? Makes my head hurt. Joseph is up in Los Angeles. Joseph, how can we help?

>> Hi. Um, my girlfriend/fiance

and I are planning to get married and we're wondering how to combine our finances. Each of us has significant assets and debts.

>> What kind of assets are we talking?

>> They're almost all real estate. Uh,

house, ADU, commercial building, raw land, and then some money in uh, uh, bank

accounts. >> Okay. So, you're wondering how do we combine this once we're married? What should we combine? How and when?

>> Yeah. And things like how do we treat bank accounts? And um we want your

advice on how to do it.

>> Well, what's the end goal here with all of the all these assets? Are you wanting to have them all paid off and in both of your names and build wealth together?

>> Um basically we're using them for our retirement. Um, we're we're older. I am

retired. Uh, she'll be retired in 5 years.

Uh, we need to live off the assets.

>> Okay. So, this income will go to both of you as one unit >> presumably.

Yeah. I was going to guess that's your advice. Yeah. >> Yeah. The simplest way, and this is what I did, is you have a checking account, she has a checking account. Correct.

>> Correct. I would transfer the money from her checking into your checking and make it a joint checking. And so her name would get added to yours.

>> And then same with savings. You have one high yield savings account and that's our emergency fund. Maybe we have another high yield savings account with both of our names on it. And that's for syncing funds and you know whatever it is, property maintenance and repair funds.

>> Oh >> when everything's split. >> Yeah.

Okay. So what I heard is two high yield hold accounts and one checking account all of them with uh both our names on them. >> Yes. And then with the assets, I would go, okay, do we want to liquidate any of these properties? Is one a nuisance?

Let's kind of combine all of our our playing cards here and then see what the next best move is. Cuz if the goal would be to get out of debt as soon as possible across the board.

>> The debt that we're in uh is 1.2 million

in debt. It is almost purely mortgage.

>> Okay. Because of these houses, right?

>> Yeah. And uh one of them's at a fabulous

interest rate uh 2.75.

>> Keep it till you die. Why even ever pay it off?

>> Exactly. >> There we go. I was just trying to get you to say that out loud. >> He was he he trapped you there.

I don't think you realized, Joseph. You walked right into it. >> My face was telling a different story. Now, here's the thing.

If you're listening to our show, uh we know that debt equals risk. More debt equals more risk. $1.2 million. As she's trying to enter retirement, there's a lot of risk here.

and it might mean she works longer or one property, you know, takes a nose dive and there's some vacancy, there's a big repair.

>> I would personally want to simplify.

>> So, I would try to angle it as soon as we're married to go, how can we get rid of this debt in the next few years so that you can step into retirement with a whole lot of peace. How old are you?

>> I'm 64. >> Okay. I was wondering cuz you I thought I heard you say we want to live off these assets and and and you're not going to be able to live off of the rent. You know, we start looking at all the numbers here, it's not that impressive. It just rarely is. So, how much equity do you have in each of the properties?

>> Um, let's see.

There's uh there's a $5.5 million uh

commercial building that's debtree.

>> Woo! >> Oh, that's great. Uh, >> how much is that cash flowing? >> There'sund uh about 16,000 a month after all expenses than that.

>> I strike what I said because it's rare we have somebody tell us they have a cash commercial building. >> What's your total what's your total net worth versus hers?

>> Uh, mine's about 7.5. Hers is about 1

million. >> Okay. So, combined, we're already stepping into this with 8 million plus net worth with a great income. And so now we can just simplify and go, "All right, can we get rid of one and become totally debtree faster just to simplify our life, not have any payments?" Because you're still going to be raking in 20 plus grand a month >> once this is all said and done, right?

>> And oh, by the way, she's a teacher with a good retirement plan. >> Yes. >> Amazing. So, with the commercial building alone, I mean, what do you anticipate your monthly expenses are once you guys get married?

>> Uh, let's see.

I'm not talking about the I'm not talking about the debt. I'm talking about because right now we're we're the debt's kind of on the table where I'm headed. I'm just curious a comfortable life uh paying the regular bills. What

do you think you guys are going to need?

>> And taking the debt payments out of it.

>> Yes.

>> Uh give me a second here.

>> Carry the two.

>> Yeah. >> He's got his eras. There's some zeros on the end of this math problem. I think I think we'd be I think we'd be real comfortable on 12.

>> Right. So, >> I I'm just challenging you to go, okay, good on you with the with the uh commercial building. That's our that's what we say. That's what you're going to do.

Do it that way because now you do have 16,000 in cash flow and this thing's worth $5 million. You can unload it at any time. But >> if you only have that, you get to live your retirement dream. That's the only property you own.

>> But I would consolidate those other real estate pieces that have debt on them by selling them. I consolidate get rid of all that debt is what I mean. Not consolidate. I would get rid of the debt.

>> Yeah.

invest that and keep it simple.

>> Then you're really cruising. That's what I would do. Right, George? Am I wrong?

>> I mean, you're already on the path. You're just so close to being debtree.

It's sort of just a no-brainer to just simplify as you enter this new marriage as she enters retirement. Man, you guys will be sitting pretty with a bunch of paid for cash real estate. Dave Ramsey smiling somewhere right now. >> I love it. Good job, Joseph.

>> I hope this I hope this woman knows that she's got poor judgment other than you just being really wealthy. Close the deal, man. This is exciting. You guys are going to have a great life together and truly live like no one else. Get rid of the debt and live large.

[Music]

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Buying or selling your home is a big deal and uh boy depend on what headline

uh headlines you're looking at every day there's a lot of conflicting data out there can scare you can create a lot of doubt and uh this is a big decision so we want to make the u uh the big decision with a lot of good information and uh here are some of the latest trends median home prices dipped a bit last month to 426,000 That is typical as we head into the fall and buyers have more options and negotiating power while sellers are facing more competition. Mortgage rates dip slightly uh in September and I will tell you just yesterday uh we saw a dip this week.

you know what is that going to do? If they keep dipping a bit, people are going to start rushing back in to try to get a better rate and that can make prices go up. So now might be a great time to get in. Uh, if you're ready to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, we got you covered. Go to ramseolutions.com/market.

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Joel is joining us now in Fairfax, Virginia. Joel, how can we help today?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. How are you guys? >> We're having a blast today. What can we help you with?

>> Well, let me This is more of a whatif question. So, I know that when you buy a

new car, it loses value as soon as you drive it off the lot. My question is, what about restored classic muscle cars?

Uh, my dad had one grow when I was growing up and I have to do some research and I found that those have grown huge in in value. And so, um, I

was kind of toying with the idea. I have a paid for 23 Bronos Sport. If I traded

it in and got something that grows in value, would it help with net worth? And if it helps, I have numbers in front of me if you need those. >> Yeah, give us some of the numbers.

>> All right. I will be 56 in December,

single, never married, no kids. I make 95,000 a year. I'm on baby step four. I

unfortunately got a late start, so to play catch-up, I'm setting aside 25% of my pay. Uh net worth is about 194,000 uh

including the Bronco Sport, 25 grand in a high yield savings, 4.1%.

Uh 750 uh in checking because I just paid the bills. Uh another,000 in savings, and then I've got two 401ks that together are just north of 143,000.

Uh I'm renting because housing is just too crazy expensive. And I've moved so many times it just never made sense. So that's pretty much it. And what is your your goal? To retire by a certain age

with a certain amount of money?

>> Well, at this uh with the numbers I have and at this uh stage in life, I honestly

don't have any plan on retiring. I'm just going to keep working until I pretty much can't. Um I know in the past

I've heard, you know, quote unquote, no new cars until you have a million dollar net worth. With my numbers, I don't know when I would ever hit that number. So, I don't know if you guys can calculate that. I don't I don't know how you'd figure that out. U in your shoes, the

the basic question, should I invest in a

classic muscle car? No.

>> Okay. >> Under no circumstances would we consider that an investment. It's a liability disguised as a hobby. And maybe it grows in some value if you store it and maintain it perfectly. But I would not sell your perfectly good car. It's you've it's paid for the Bronco.

>> Yes. And you're going to sell that to get a muscle car that you would then drive as your vehicle.

>> Yeah. I mean, I'm not actively considering it now. It was just a a what if question. So that's what I'm asking.

A second opinion. >> Well, but in the what if it and to George's point, I didn't think that you were going to drive it. I thought you were thinking about maybe flipping these things because >> Oh, no. No. This would have been my driver. >> Well, but that's going to hurt its value. >> Um, you're talking about >> something else. I thought about >> these cars. These cars that get I did

some research while George was talking to you. >> Um, a 1962 Shelby Cobra, which is an

absolutely phenomenal machine. My gosh,

I couldn't help myself. James, uh, I love old cars. Um, >> uh, sold for a record 13.75

million, but it was the first Shelby Cobra ever made and was owned by Carol Shelby. So, I'm giving you the extreme here. to to back up George's point. Um,

and you know, if you look at here's another one. Um, a 1970 Plymouth Hemi

Cuda convertible believed to be the only surviving Canadian export version. Sold for 2.7 million. So, that's a lot less than 30. So, they have to have like, it's not that they're just in good shape at that kind of level, George. They have to be extremely rare like a rookie baseball card of like a Babe Ruth and it doesn't ex you know. So George is right.

I just want >> It's a luxury. It's a luxury hobby for people that can afford to put the money into these. >> Well, they're putting a ton of money into it. >> Even if they lose money on it, they're just happy because they're car people, >> but it's a daily driver.

And again, I'm I'm in the long process, good lord, it takes forever of restoring a 1972 convertible Volkswagen Carmen Gia. And she's she's she's a cherry. She's a be, but it takes a lot of work. And I I'm not going to tell you how much I've put into her so far.

And George knows I just got a quote to finish the interior and I it was a little steep. And at this stage I'm going I don't know if I want to do that. >> Ken clutched his pearls when he saw that. >> Yeah.

Well, but I I knew I didn't think it was going to be that much. But I I'm going to drive that from time to time with Stacy when the weather's really nice. And right now it's like ah I'm going to get several other quotes and see if I can get that down a few thousand. All right.

beating this thing to a pulp because you

can get really feverish about a about an old car, but is it a great long-term investment? Uh, no. It isn't a great one. And it's only a good investment, George, if you are flipping these cars, right?

To where you again, you have the knowhow. And at that point, you got to hang on to them for a pretty good while for them to appreciate in value over time. Um, not if you're flipping, but if you're gonna fix them up, you know, if you're restoring old ones. >> That's what I'm saying.

That's the only scenario where if you've got the equipment, you got the knowhow, which takes a lot of cash flow to even do that. >> It does. So, in your in your shoes, Joel, I would rather see you get into a house and stabilize your housing costs cuz in the meantime, rent's going to keep going up. >> And so, if you're you're 56, I would love to see you have a home by the time you retire, uh, to where it's not crippling you financially.

So that becomes the goal. You have a great income. You're you did get a later start, but if you're good to work for the next decade, you can build some serious wealth.

>> You know, the average home price is over 400,000. If you wait another five years, it could be 600,000.

>> Oh yes. Well, where I'm at is half a mill already. And I'm just like >> Exactly. So that's why I would I would dial back your investing to 15% and then use that extra cash flow every dime you can to throw into a high yield savings account and within the next three years work up a down payment and get yourself into a home.

>> Okay. >> And the car dream I think is a cool dream. I would just separate it from well two birds one stone. Get a cool classic car. Drive it around. It becomes my retirement. That's a that's a fool's errand. >> It's a it's a fun car and I think you can get one. I have to ask, if you had the money, what are you buying today?

What is this classic mobile that you would be uh driving around in?

>> Uh well, uh the guys in all the men in my dad's side of the family, we were big Buick guys. Um and so I was looking at

probably a 71 or 72 GS convertible.

>> Um something along those lines.

>> Yeah. >> So, um >> have you looked into what those cost in decent shape? I'm just curious. I found a couple between 30 and 40,000. My father had a 1970 model. I've seen those go for anywhere from 80 to 130,000.

>> Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Well, >> I thought I'm going to aim a little lower. >> Yeah. But here's the deal. Down the road when you get financially able to do it, you know, uh might be a fun nostalgic

thing, but again, you got to treat it like any other car in the way we treat it. So, uh thanks for calling. That's really interesting stuff. Yeah, George.

you know, uh, boy oh boy, you can get, boy, you can rack the expenses up with a

with an old car. You just can. It's It's a premium service. It truly is a hobby.

I don't think many people have made it a quote unquote business or an investment and sometimes you get lucky and you bought at the right time and it went up in value or you had the the funds to really invest into it and you found the right buyer at the right time. But man, I would much rather stick to the stock market so I can retire one day. Yeah, absolutely right. But would you uh do you see yourself in an old car one day when you're in your 70s?

>> One day, you know, I watch I watched Father the Bride and Steve Martin tooling around in that car made me go, "That's what I want one day." >> See, now sign me up. >> I see. You know what? When I get the old Gia done, I'm going to teach you how to drive a stick.

That's what I have to start with and then let you drive it.

>> No. No. >> No idea, folks. No idea. My car drives itself at this point.

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[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio.

Alongside George Campell, I'm Ken Coleman. So excited that you are with us. 88255225

is the phone number. Jeremy is up in Dallas, Texas. Jeremy, how can we help?

>> Hello. Well, thank you guys very much.

Um, I just wanted to ask, do you guys think college students nowadays have a better chance of being just as or more successful than our parents in today's world? And I asked this because as a college student myself that's about to graduate um with no student debt. Uh I

have $50,000 saved and I have a job lined up fortunately but unfortunately of the state uh I live in and away from family. I'm nervous to move out and I know a lot of people my age and this situation feel the same way. Um but I

know a lot of people are nervous and don't know if they can move out financially. Um but do you think people in today's world um

have the same chance that our parents did and also people in my situation?

What can you give to them um that don't

know if they can move out financially?

>> Well, you do have the same chance. I don't think, you know, you get into a crazy game if you start going, well, what are the chances back in the 60s and, you know, uh, and that probably seems like ancient history to you. Um, but no, I I think I think

college students have the same exact chances of being successful. I think they have some things that are going in their favor. I think that older generations, you might be able to say, well, maybe they had a couple advantages because of this. Um, but the one that

sticks out to me, George, is the student loan issue that just was not a handicap to people that are older.

>> Yeah. >> Uh, but in your case, Jeremy, you you're the asterric. You don't have any debt.

Um, so I think uh the the the second question is the one that we can tackle.

Um, and that is how do you overcome this

barrier to entry? this thought process

that uh I can't live on my own or I can't move away. Uh George, you want to tackle that one first? I've got thoughts, but >> Oh, yeah. So, what what was your what's your job situation right now?

>> Um well, I'm from Dallas, but I have a job offer in a separate state away from family. Um I would get a stipen to take

the position and move out. Um, I'd also get a free vehicle and entry uh salary is 65,000 before

>> 65,000 with a car and what's the

stipend?

>> Uh, 10,000.

>> I mean, bro, >> I don't And what what is your actual fear here? Cuz there's not a math problem. Are you wondering, can I afford rent?

>> Uh, I I would prefer not to rent but more of a mortgage. Uh >> why would you jump into a mortgage right out of college in a city you have never lived in? >> What's the rush?

>> I I I guess it's just because uh my dad

he has always told me not to rent. And I guess that stuck with me head.

>> So dad said renting is a waste of money, son. You should become a homeowner.

>> Yeah. >> And that's the in the back of your mind.

Dad is not going to be proud of me if I rent. >> Yeah. and he's going to be telling me how much I need to get into a house every time I talk to him.

>> Yeah. >> Is he covering your down payment?

>> Uh, no. My uh girlfriend's mom if she

would be willing to uh go out with me, but if that's not the case, she would not like to move in. >> Okay, Jeremy, this entire call you have sounded like somebody who's way ahead of the game and on top of it. And then you just threw the ultimate curveball.

You're considering buying a house with your girlfriend's mom?

>> Yeah. >> Does that sound in any way risky to you?

It's true. I'm just trying to be serious. Do you think that sounds smart?

>> No, not necessarily. >> Have you told your mom and dad that you're considering this?

>> I have. >> And what' they say?

uh they trust her a lot and they uh really like the family and um if she's willing to do that, they were fine with it.

>> Okay, I'm going to bring George in cuz George loves to tell horror stories.

George, let's fast forward.

>> Let me crawl under the desk. Get my jaw off the floor real quick. >> I got to tell you, Jeremy, this is absolutely ridiculous that your parents haven't freaked out over this. Your parents are good people. >> Are you trolling us, Jeremy? Are you trolling us? Oh. Is this a fake call?

>> No, I'm not. >> All right, George. Where's this go?

Let's Let's say the girlfriend take us down the all the things that could go wrong. >> I'll play this out. You're going to call us in a year and here's going to be the call. I sunk all of my money into buying

a house with my girlfriend's mom and we just broke up. What do I do? She wants to keep the house. >> Mhm. >> Or I want to keep the house.

>> Do you see where this is going? It's going to get messy real quick. You and her, you're not even the girlfriend, which we would tell you is stupid. This is the girlfriend's mom, which is next level stupid.

>> Already planning to live with your future mother-in-law is just a bad plan relationally.

So, here, Jeremy, here's what I would do. If I could >> not funny, I got to tell you, I don't think anything about this is funny. If I waved a magic wand, you would move out, take this job offer, rent, maybe even get a roommate or two to help you stomach the the finances and just learn

to live on your own for a little while.

Rent for a year or two, keep stacking up that down payment with this new salary you have. And then a year or two from now, you have $100,000 saved, and that's actually a decent down payment, uh, you know, on the cost of a home these days.

And so once you get into that, do a 15-year fixed rate mortgage where the payment's no more than a quarter of your take-home pay. that's going to allow you to pay off that home really early and then you're going to be financially free at a very young age. But if you shortcut it, that scares me because you're gonna fall flat on your face and you are off to a great start. Here's what I don't understand. I thought you said you were moving away from where you live.

>> Yeah, I I would be. >> So, where does the girlfriend's mom come into the equation?

>> Uh, they live in Tennessee.

>> That's where you would be moving.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Oh, you're moving to be in the same place as your girlfriend.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And the job offer is there.

Um, so I I kind of thought of it in this way as more of like a a way around things so that I wouldn't have to >> there's not no >> you think this is a way around something

to whatever not pay rent be smarter with

your money. This is a way into a massive, massive pond of scum and

disgustingness and danger and all kinds of stuff. You don't even know if this girl is the one for you, do you?

>> You're absolutely right. >> Well, then what are you thinking? We don't even know if we want to marry her.

I tell you what, if you were young, you're my younger brother, I'd reach to the phone and cuff you right upside the head because this is crazy talk.

You are too smart for this. You got a great job, no debt, a stipend, a free

car. Just go date this girl and let's see if she is the one, right? And then let's kind of check these boxes off. I

mean, this is craziness to me. You know,

like it's And by the way, I'm I'm being fun. James the producer looks like he's like he's going to swallow a frog. I I wouldn't violently hit you. I'm just saying like I'm trying to go snap out of this. like this is somebody needs to kind of grab you and shake you and go this could be a horrible horrible mistake. >> All right, >> here's the TLDDR. Just slow down.

>> You've done such a good job and now all of a sudden you want to go 90 miles an hour and you're going to get in a wreck if you live your life this way.

>> So just rent for a year or two or three.

Who you're how old?

>> Uh 22. >> Let's play this out. >> Oh boy. At 25 you own a home. You know the average age of a homeowner in today's world? No, >> it's like 38 years old. So, you're already so far ahead of the curve.

You're already so more successful, so much more successful than most Americans who are retired, who are broke. So, if you just keep this up, live your life debtree, rent on your own, get a house when it makes sense, and don't do it with anyone else unless you're married to them. That's the key, man. Good luck.

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Two weekends, George. Not one but two.

Two weekends are on sale now for money and marriage getaway. It's three incredible days with your spouse here in Nashville. Learning the tools to strengthen your connection and deepen your intimacy. Join Dr. John Deloney and Rachel Cruz in November or February.

Early bird pricing is available now.

Tickets start at $749 per couple. You

can get those tickets for the lowest price before they end at ramseyolutions.com/getaway.

ramseyolutions.com/getaway or you can click on the link in the show notes and um uh it's popped up on my schedule. I guess I'm going to be at the November and February. >> I did see you on the lineup. Very excited. I might come see your talk. It looked like a good one. It was Can I tell them what it is? >> Yeah, sure. >> Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong. It was how to win at

home. >> Love how love and work. Home and work.

I'm >> something like that. It was kind of like a how to win at work without losing your your life at home. >> You know what my speech title is. I just know what I'm talking about.

>> I need that. It's a good sort of work life marriage balance talk >> because you know a lot of people want to crush it at work and then their marriage suffers. >> Well, it's not a traditional talk. George, you're going to like this.

>> Oh, and um and it's about, hey, my

spouse is a workaholic. How do I support him? Or he feels lost? You know, it's that kind. So, I'm taking some of the biggest questions, the ones that have been submitted the most, and I'm teaching to those questions.

>> I love that. So, very practical.

>> Very fun. And I'm told, uh, Mrs. Coleman might be making an appearance at the February one. >> Whoa. That's something to show up for.

>> I tell you what, to know Stacy is to like her. >> That's worth the price of admission to see Stacy Coleman. >> I'm telling you right there. So, there you go. Should be fun. Let's go to Tracy in Houston, Texas. Tracy, how can we help? >> Hi. Um, thanks for talking with me first off. Um, I have a situation going on to

where we have a lot of credit card debt

and just making the minimum payments.

Uh, we're kind of having to um teeter

between groceries or paying all the minimums. And I'm wanting to start the

snowball rolling, but I don't have the extra money to put toward any of the smaller bills. And I was wondering if there was something that y'all could a suggestion or advice that y'all could give me to to help get that started.

>> Well, the magic wand here is we need to make more income to have more margin.

Now, we can cut expenses, too, when you probably should, but it sounds like there's an income problem. How much do you guys make a month?

>> Um, a month we make about uh $4,700.

>> What are the credit card minimums?

>> Oh my goodness. Uh, just the minimums are almost $1,200.

>> Okay. And you can't do that and cover the rest of your bills. What's your Do you have a rent or mortgage?

>> Uh, we have a mortgage. Um, it's for $900 a month.

>> Okay. So, that's not the problem.

>> Right. >> What got you into all this credit card debt? >> Well, my son lost his job and he's he's grown adult. Um, he was staying with us or he still is uh staying with us. Um, so he's helping pay, you know, uh, bills

and all those kind of good things. Um, but he's actually looking to move out and so I was like, I need to get this.

>> No, but what cause how much credit card debt total do we have? What's the balance? >> Um, total credit card is 29,000.

>> What got us into 29,000 of credit card debt? I don't think it was your son.

>> No, no, no, no. Um I am undiagnosed uh

shopaholic and um I'm working with a therapist on that now. >> Oh wow. >> Um so it's just been uh we would max out

credit cards, get more credit cards, max those out and get more. >> Have you stopped the bleeding? Because we can't help you at all unless you decide I'm done borrowing money.

>> Oh yes. >> So have you cut up the cards?

I'm actually thinking about closing the accounts and I was like going to get your opinion on that as well. >> Cut them up. Close them. You still have the money. >> Cut them right now on the air. >> Yeah. Do you have them with you?

>> I don't.

>> That's that's unfortunate. >> More than happy to cut them up. >> Have you Have you done a a freeze on all of your credit?

>> Um yeah, on my the credit bureaus.

>> Yes. >> Yes, I have. >> So, nobody can take out debt in your name, including you, without jumping through some hoops. >> Okay. What's what other debt do you have outside of the 29 in credit cards?

>> Um I do have um 11,000 in loans.

Um >> just personal loans.

>> Yes, personal loans. >> Okay. >> Um and then the rest of it is just our

monthly, you know, just our regular monthly bills, electric, gas.

>> Okay. So, no more debt outside of that.

You got 40,000 in debt plus you got the mortgage, >> right? >> All right. And are you both working full-time? >> We do. All right. So, who's making what?

Because right now I'm seeing about a take-home pay per year about 56 grand.

>> Yeah, it's um I make about 30,000 a year and he makes about 32,000 a year.

>> Why are the income so low? What are you guys doing for work? >> Um well, we work for the county and so

the pay is lower but the benefits at the end if you retire with them are greater.

Um, for example, >> we're not going to live long enough to see the benefits if we can't eat.

>> I know. Um, >> when we have collectors knocking down our door, taking us to court. So, screw the benefits. You guys need to go double your income, >> right? Okay. Okay. Um, yeah, during the

tax season, I do do um I prepare taxes

and so that does bring in some extra that I'm wanting to throw at it.

>> Are you an enrolled agent? Do you have some qualifications there?

>> No. No, I'm not an enrolled agent. Okay.

I'm just wondering. I think you could go, you know, do that and make double tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> You know, okay, let me just interject real quick there. You need to create some type of a visual, an exercise to

where we identify what is it that I can do >> right now to make more money and just begin to create a possibilities list.

George just gave you a really great suggestion there, but you have got to be able to see in order to believe that you

can actually make more money. We've got to get that income up. And we can't be doing things that are like um prospecting. Well, if I spend this and I do this, then I might be able to make this. It's like, no, I need to exchange time for money right now.

>> Right. >> And so, to to your question, I want to make sure I answer it. You don't have to juggle between do I make the credit card minimums or food. You always cover your four walls first. And if the credit cards don't get paid, they don't get paid. So four walls are food, utilities,

housing, transportation. And we're talking bare bones. This is not, well, I guess we're going to eat out instead of making the minimums. No, this is what do we need to survive right now? How can we cut all of our expenses down to the bone? And then we'll get to the credit cards once we can create enough income and create enough margin to start to climb out of this.

>> Okay, that sounds that sounds good.

That's kind of where I was going. And that might mean some of them go to collections and you're going to have to deal with that later. And so you're just kind of kicking the can down the road.

But you got to eat first. And so I don't care how much they're calling you, hassling you to make your payments. If you can't make it, you can't make it.

>> Okay. Okay. And then the the actually

closing of the accounts is not I mean, would that be okay? Because I know myself that I would just call and go, "Oh, well, I lost my card." You know?

I mean, why are you saying you're going to go back into debt? >> She's saying it's possible. >> No, that's what I'm trying to I'm trying to alleviate any possibility.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. >> Yeah, you should close the accounts, freeze your credit, the whole nine yards. Put up some accountability.

>> Cut up all the cards. And then that's a line in the sand saying, "I'm done. I'm never borrowing a dime on these cards again." >> Okay, great. >> And they're probably going to offer you some deal to try to stay. Just say, "Nope, I'm done. Cancel, cancel, cancel.

I'm done." And you're still, of course, going to owe on on those accounts, but at least you can't rack up any more debt, and they won't send you offers for more line of credit to bless you with.

>> Right. Right. >> Yeah. I mean, like, I'm glad you're you're seeing a therapist, but I would get advice from the therapist on who can be in your life from an accountability standpoint. Uh, boy oh boy, you're going to have to take some extreme steps here, but you can do this, but you got to sit

in the pain long enough to go, "Oo, I don't ever want to experience this again." So, whatever pain I'm trying to take care of with the shopping, oh boy.

Uh, I I that I don't want to deal with that because it's creating more pain that I am not enjoying and you're feeling it right now. So, I appreciate the call. Glad you called us. Uh, final thoughts, George, on this?

I mean, you can try to at least call and negotiate your interest rates down for now to alleviate some of the pain and let them know, hey, I can't pay this. It's simply too much. The interest is racking up too fast. Can you work with me?

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[Music] [Applause] [Music] All right, we're going to go out into our lobby where Lexi is standing on the

debt-free stage. Good afternoon, Lexi.

How are you? >> I'm great. How are you? >> Good. Where are you from? >> I live in Melbourne, Florida. About an hour from Orlando. >> Oh, it's a lovely place. All right. Very nice. And I guess you're here to do a debtree screen. That would be the assumption. All right. Great. All right.

Give us the numbers. How much did you pay off? >> I paid off $56,569

in student loans in a year and a half.

>> Wow. A year and a half. That's getting with it. And what was your range of income? >> 120,000. >> Okay. And what do you do for a living?

I'm a project manager for a corporate job and I also dog sat on the side almost every single weekend and drove Uber every time I wasn't dogsitting.

Nice. Okay. >> Which one's more lucrative? Like what what was your rates?

Like what were you pulling in per hour so people can understand what they could be making? >> Yeah, dogs sitting I mean other the corporate job made the most money but dog sitting was the most especially if there's multiple dogs. Um and I stay in the dogs house. Give us an idea what So you would show up on a Friday night after work and and you baby uh you dogsit I said babysit you dogsit all through the weekend.

Is that what a normal thing would be? >> Usually sometimes it's the whole week as well. My corporate job. >> How much would you make?

>> That's pretty good dough. >> That's not bad. And it's not like a lot of hands-on work. You got to be there, make sure they're fed, make sure they get out, but it's not like you're hustling like an Uber or Instacart.

>> And you can leave them. You can't leave kids. So dog sitting is so the dog isn't

going to throw a fit and cry and all that stuff. Dogs happy to see you every time. >> And dog owners like me are happy to pay knowing someone wonderful is taking care of them the way. >> Isn't it extraordinary how much we Americans spend on our dogs?

>> It's insane. But hey, it helps people become debtree. >> I love that. Okay. And then how many hours on a given week during this process of getting out of debt? It's a year and a half were you driving? How many hours a week on Uber?

>> Uber was about 3 hours in the evenings or I'd drive into late at night on weekends if I wasn't dogsitting.

>> Wow. So you didn't have >> maybe like 10 hours a week. >> You didn't have much of a life is what we're gathering. >> I moved to Florida two years ago when I started the journey. So my life was basically paying off the debt. And now I finally have community and friends. What

happened a year and a half ago to start this intense journey?

>> I was new to Florida, just got an apartment down there and renting and I felt like I was drowning in the student loans and I was thinking about what job I wanted to do and I was like, I can't leave this job. I need to pay off the debt and my parents recommended the Ramsay program and by the first video Dave was so motivating. I was like, I got to go gazelle in. >> Wow.

So only one video and you're all in. >> Yeah. >> So did you miss out on life?

>> Yes, for sure. I missed a friend's bachelorette trip. Um, one Christmas I didn't buy anyone gifts. Thankfully, they didn't care that much.

>> But you just got to be honest with your friends and your family is like, "This is my goal. I'm going to go hardcore for at least a year. Took me a year and a half. Um, I'll meet you next year on the next trip." >> And they were all like, "Okay, cool." Like, "Are you still friends with the girl group?" >> Right. Like no one's going to disown you. No. >> Wow. Wow. And they still You're still invited for Christmas?

>> Yes. >> I got to say >> that's impressive. >> Um that's a controversial move right

there. Like the internet would have We don't care what the internet says, but boy would they have an opinion on you not going You were You would have been a bridesmaid. Is that right? Did I catch that? >> Or did you just not go on the trip >> or the trip? The Yeah. >> Oh, it was just a trip. You weren't did not You weren't saying no to being a bridesmaid, >> right?

>> I love it. >> That's Is this you at the wedding? And we have the the >> Oh, there we go. What is this photo?

>> This is just me and my That's I went to a meetup group in Florida and we made bouques and that's where I met some of my girlfriends. >> Oh, that's fun. So, there is life on the other side of Gazelle Intensity. That's what we need people to hear.

>> Yeah. And that was a free event. So, just know that you can go and do free stuff. >> How'd you find like free events and things like that?

>> Like Facebook groups. >> Okay. >> You and George are like, >> "Yeah, >> you guys might love a free activity." >> Yeah.

>> I enjoy it more because when I pay for an activity, I'm going, "What does this cost me per minute to enjoy this thing?

This is a ripoff." >> Yeah. Yeah. I can't get George to come out with a bunch of guys and just have a nice poker night. >> You couldn't pay me. >> He's at home on Facebook playing Words with Friends because it's free.

>> So you guys, >> if I lose, at least it's not in front of my peers.

>> So, uh, walk us through maybe what was maybe one of the most, you know, tough times. Was there a tough time for you?

It was a low moment and you pressed through. Get take us to that moment.

>> Yeah, again the time where I didn't have any friends yet in Florida and I was driving Uber. That's actually how I got a lot of my socialization since I work from home. I would talk to people in the car. The hardest part was showing up at the cruise port above Melbourne, Florida. I would drop people off for their cruises and I was like, "Oh, I just want to jump on the ship and go with them." >> Wow. You know what? You can go on the Ramsay cruise in 2027.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. All right. There you go.

That's something to look forward to. Well, you're impressive. Do you have any cheerleaders along the way that were like, I'm with you. I'll be here to cheer you on.

>> Absolutely. My parents have been a huge help. They're the ones that recommended the program and they're also they're just paying off their mortgage now. They should be done by the end of this year and then they'll be totally debtree.

Who basically >> did you sort of like kick their butt a little bit to put it in high gear when they saw you paying off debt? They're like, "We got to get on it." >> Yeah.

And I got it. >> And you made it. Take that, mom.

>> Bragging rights. I like that. I guess they're going to be watching this uh later. That's so fun. All right. What is

the key in your opinion, your journey?

What would you tell people the key is to getting out of debt? >> You have to get mad at the debt. Like get so frustrated at the money. Not at yourself. I'd say forgive yourself and move on. But as Dave motivated me, is

like the borrower slave to the lender. And you just have to get mad and do it motivates you to do anything you can to throw money at it. >> Wow. So make debt the villain, not the person in the mirror and carry the guilt and shame and go, "Of course you got us into this mess." Instead, go, "Hey, debt, you're next. You're a thief. I'm coming for you." >> That's impressive. So, what's next for you? >> Next, um, I would like to travel more since I haven't vacationed in a while.

>> Yes. >> Um, my family doesn't know it yet, but I'd like to pay for them to travel as well. I just want to do an all expenses paid thing and I want to continue to help ladies uh with their emotions and finances as well. >> That's awesome. And what do you do for a living? >> A project manager. I also do uh life

coaching on the side for ladies in their 20s to 40s. >> So here you are, you're how old?

>> 30. >> You're 30 years of age. You're debtree.

You have a very good job. Project managers who are talented. They can go a

lot of different directions. We see them all the way up to sea suite. There's just so much you can do with that experience and you're still very very young. Uh what is it emotionally feel

like? How would you describe it to people that this is here you are on the debtree stage? This is the finish line for you and before we hear you scream, what has been that emotional reality for you >> of being debtree? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It feels like a weight's been lifted off my shoulders and just knowing that no money is automatically going to come out of my account anymore and I don't have to worry about um can I make a couple extra hundred dollars here and there. It's just so much more peaceful.

I feel like I sleep better. >> And George, she's on the path. What would you say? Uh knowing what you know her income, she now steps fully into she's in baby step four. She's going after it. Uh what what does it look like a path to being a millionaire for her?

>> Oh my goodness. Well, are you already investing that 15%? Are you at that stage? >> Yes. >> Oh my goodness. So from 30 to 60, even that 30-year period of just investing 15% of 120k, say you never get a raise,

you're already going to be a multi-millionaire. And so that's the good news. And so what you get to do now, especially at this age, you get to start dreaming big of like what do I want? Where at 35?

Where am I going to be at? 40. And so I'm just so excited for this path, especially because you got it so young.

Once I got someone else to do this with, it'll be easier." And you went, "No, I'm going to do this on my own." >> I'm so proud. >> Can I just say, don't marry a dud.

>> You've worked too hard.

>> No, dud. Stay away, duds. You're too sharp. No one. No, no, no, not at all.

You've done so much good work. Okay, this is really fun. Let's get right to it. Lexi is here from Melbourne, Florida. Uh, she paid off 56,500

and something something something. She knows in a year and a half making

$120,000. Take it away, Lexi. Let's hear your debtree scream. >> Can you help count me down? >> Sure. You ready? Three, two, one.

>> I'm debtree.

>> Yeah. Oh, there you go. I love it with

the assist, by the way. I've never done an assist before. I like that as an alleyoop. I got to tell you, I got nervous, James. It was a lot of pressure. I thought I hope Ken can count down from three. Hope he remembers how to do it. >> Believe me, I struggled there at first.

A lot of pressure. Way to go, Lexi.

[Music]

Our

[Music]

scripture of the day comes from 1 Timothy 6:18.

Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. Our quote from Bill Murray. Whatever you do, always give a 100% unless you're donating blood.

Very clever. I like that. Why is that so

stupid and so funny at the same time?

It's a great >> just really I love Bill Murray. Great, great, great quote today. Gary is waiting for us in Texas. Gary, how can we help?

>> Yes, sir. Hi, Gary.

>> U Yes, sir. It's good to be here.

>> Good to be here as well. How can we help?

>> Um uh I I got uh me and my wife got into

this house and uh the house has started falling apart pretty rapidly and I've got behind on bills and house recently

went into foreclosure >> and I want to know if there's a way that I can get out of it.

>> Well, we hope so. Let's see if we can get out of it. How many payments have you missed? >> Yeah. >> Um I think so far we've done this about

five or six >> in a row.

>> Yes, sir. >> What's the total amount that you're behind?

>> Uh about probably about

about 10,000 probably. I mean it's $2,000 a month. >> Okay. So $10,000 or behind. And you mentioned that the house is falling apart. Is that the reason why you're not able to pay the mortgage payment?

>> Uh well, like I said, I've got behind on work. I've had some things happen in my life recently that have caused me to miss some work and uh we kind of got

behind on the house payment. And then uh

uh foundations messing up, ceiling started fall. This is not long after we bought the house. >> Okay. >> The ceiling started falling in. heater went out during the first winter that we stayed here. Uh I mean the all electricity started. >> So were you were you cash flowing these repairs? Did you go into debt for these repairs? What's your total financial picture now?

>> Uh well we're only about $3,000 in

credit card debt really. But >> that's the only debt you have >> there's besides the house of course now

which is uh way too much for what it is.

What did you guys bring in last month as far as income?

>> Uh, I make about 8,000 a month.

>> That's good income. >> I'm so confused how you make eight grand a month and you couldn't make the two grand payment. Like, you make that before making anything else?

>> Yes. I'm also helping uh helping my mom

pay for a lot of stuff, too, cuz she's in bad health. >> So, you're going to be homeless to help mom out?

>> I mean, the h the house is falling apart is what? So, I'd be >> Well, wait a second, Gary. Hold on, Gary. We're all over the place, and we got to get on the same page. So, let me just ask you a few questions to see if we can get some clear answers. Have you been cash flowing was what George asked.

Have you been paying for the ceiling falling in, the electricity going completely out, all these things? Have you been paying to repair these things or are these things just sitting in disrepair?

>> They're at the moment sitting in disrepair because they all started at one time, right? And where is all the money going that you're making? You're making 8,000. Is that the total amount of income or is your wife is it a double income? What do we got?

>> She She doesn't make very She only makes about maybe 2,000 a month, >> bro. That's 10 grand.

>> That's 10 grand. How much are you spending each month on your mom?

>> I'm I'm not entirely sure. I'd have to ask her. She keeps up with that. But >> hold on. Who keeps up with it? Mom,

>> my wife. >> Oh, your wife keeps up with it. So, George, we have a budgeting problem. We don't even know where the money is. >> Gary, here's the good news. You could solve this in 2 months and just talk to the lender and say, "Hey, I know I'm 10 grand behind. I'm going to pay five grand a month for the next two months and catch up." >> That's right. >> That's the actual solution here is to set up a repayment plan and actually communicate with the lender.

>> But I'm confused. I think there's something deeper that you're not telling us about where this money is going

cuz you don't have a lot of debt and I don't think your expenses add up outside of that 2,000 mortgage which you can't even make. Where is this 10,000 disappearing into? Cuz I don't think it's repairs either.

I mean, we we have money in our account, but >> how much >> like not uh right now probably about

5,000, >> but I'm saying uh like $120,000

slips through your hands every year.

>> Do you understand? >> Why do you have $5,000 in your account right now when you are $10,000 behind on

your mortgage?

We just started, we just now started getting back up to where we were because I was only making uh I haven't been at this new job for at very long. I was only making about in

between four maybe $4,000 a month and

then I recently got on to this new job.

>> When was that?

>> Uh just over a year ago.

>> Okay. And you just told me that you've been behind on payments for five months while making eight grand. So something's not adding up here, Gary. But number one, you can't help mom right now.

>> Yeah. >> You're on the verge of losing your home.

>> And so you need to call the lender today and say, "Hey, I've got five grand to give you, and I'll give you the next five grand next month." And then you do whatever it takes to come up with five grand next month. You understand?

>> I mean, what am I supposed to do with her, though? >> With with her? With mom?

>> Yes. She needs to figure it out because the long-term plan can't be I just fund mom's life while I can't make a mortgage payment.

>> All right. Well, I'll just tell her to stop going to the hospital and stop having bad health. >> Well, I mean, she's going to rack up medical bills, right?

>> Uh the uh what you uh >> Does she have medicare insurance cover?

>> Yes, she has Medicare, but it's not covering her house and stuff like that.

>> Okay. All right. So, we're not trying to upset you, but but you you're only giving us like we're having to pull information out of you in order to help you. So, we got to talk. What is the What is your mom's housing cost? So, let's look at what is your does she own her home? Is it a mortgage? Yes or no?

>> It's a mortgage. >> Okay. What is her mortgage?

>> Uh hers is about I think 1,200 a month.

>> 1,200 a month. Okay. And what would you say outside of the mortgage are her monthly expenses? Utilities and everything else. We're not talking healthcare right now.

>> Uh, see I'm I'm not entirely sure, but that she covers that. I I just help pay the house and stuff like that. >> Okay. You just help pay the house and stuff like that.

You mean just the mortgage? >> Yes, sir. >> All right. But you can see we're trying to help you and you don't even know.

If your wife was on the phone, sounds like we might get a better play of the numbers. So, >> probably. >> Yeah. Yeah, but see, Gary, I mean, that kind of needs to happen.

Not kind of, I don't know why I even said that. You and your wife have got to get on the same page about where our money is going because the good news is with the new job, George is right. You can dig out of this mess. But, can I also say I don't think George is heartless.

George is one of the kindest people I know. And you're you were kind of like, well, what am I supposed to do? Well, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Doesn't mean that you put yourself in financial ruin. your mom. That's a

separate set of circumstances. And you then do you have any siblings?

>> Uh I not uh well not not really anymore.

>> That's a pretty straightforward question.

>> I'm I'm I don't really like to talk about it a whole lot. Okay. >> But uh recently I've recently I lost my brother. >> Okay. I am so sorry. But but what I'm trying to figure out is this is is this truly all on you? And even then, if you're the only surviving child

to >> I'm the only one that'll I'm the only one that'll help her at the moment.

>> I understand. But my point is is you've got to sit with mom and go, is it time for mom to sell the house? And if mom sells the house, we get rid of the $1,200 mortgage payment, but then where can she stay? You know, is she >> Well, I was what I what I was planning on doing was I was wanting to fix my house up and sell mine and then uh I was

going to buy hers since she's in bad health. >> You don't have any money. You're behind five house payments.

>> I know, Gary, but like you've got to take care of your house before we can take care of mom. And and >> first of all, you got to get current on the mortgage payments. Who knows how much it's going to cost to fix this house that's falling apart. >> You got to put your own mask on first is what this amounts to.

I'm >> you can't help someone from a place where where you're weak and you've got to get to a place of strength, which means you have financial stability. Then we can figure out mom's situation. But the truth is, we're doing a budget tonight. We could solve all of this.

You got 10 grand coming in. We need 2 grand for the mortgage, 1,200 for mom. There's still plenty of money left over, and you still haven't told us where it's disappearing to.

Look at all the bank statements. It'll tell you real quick where this money's been going and what we should do about it next. Remember, there is ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that is to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[Music]

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## 280. Your Financial Progress Starts Now! | March 25, 2026


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| **Video ID** | `C2D3Q56suLQ` |
| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2D3Q56suLQ) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:39:37 |

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Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Dave Ramsey, George Kamel, Ramsey Personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

You jump in, we'll talk about your life, your money. It's a free call. Some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Bob's in Chicago. Hey Bob, what's up?

Hi Hi Dave and George, how you doing?

Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure, man. How can I help?

So, a few months back my daughter and her then fiance approached my wife and me to discuss moving their wedding up by several months. We'd made all the plans, had a date picked, and they wanted to to move that forward quite a bit. And uh we disagreed with them. We said, "Hey, we got a date, we got a venue, we got everything paid for, everything's moving along. Let's keep it there." Um they didn't like that. They chose to then

get married after about 2 weeks notice.

And uh in a different venue, different state. And uh we're just kind of wondering, is it right or wrong for us to uh ask them to reimburse us for the funds that we we spent, we're out of pocket? Hm. These are non-refundable, they changed it all, and then you you were out that money, and they didn't care cuz it wasn't their money?

Pretty much, that's the way it feels, yep. How much money are we talking?

Uh about $8,500. Mhm.

No.

And here's why.

Um I've gone through this three times with kids getting married and setting up wedding budgets and all that And the thing that I had to keep reminding everyone in my family, including me and my wife, was that it ain't our party.

We just funded it, but it's not our party. So, um the prob- the problem is it's not the $8,500, your wife's feelings are deeply

hurt.

Yeah, well, the whole the whole family is pretty hurt cuz it was going to be a big family event, all the kids involved in it, and it was taken away.

Did they like a loophole where you guys invited to this other wedding?

We were invited with 2 weeks' notice, so we scrambled and we got ourselves there, spent a fortune getting there. Um as we hadn't we hadn't planned on it in short notice and all, but uh we we did make it there. Where Where did you go?

Uh we went to uh Texas.

It costs a fortune to go to Texas?

Oh, for us it it felt like quite a bit of money. We probably spent about $7,000 getting all the kids and everybody there. We've got a big family. Oh, you paid for everybody else to go. Yes, sir.

Did they pay for the new wedding?

You They didn't ask us for any money for it, although we had paid for the dress and some other uh stuff that they had bought already for the existing wedding.

Yeah, I I I think everybody's mad and hurt, and um you guys are looking for a way to um

hit back, and I wouldn't. I think it's a good idea to walk away.

And just go, this is just This didn't go the way I wanted to. Nobody's happy except the little bride and groom, they're happy. And um this is not how we want to do it, and the next time I get ready to interact with them on something that involves money or planning or something, I'll keep this in mind, but um but I'm not going to hit back. I I I No, I would not. I I That's just That's just father and in-law advice. That's not financial advice.

Well, I do appreciate that. It's It's a complicated situation for sure and it's It's certainly like you said there's emotions wrapped up in it that make us Yeah, I mean you know, if it's at my house, it's my wife that's royally pissed about this. If it was at my I would be like this is inconvenient.

You guys are rude. You're being You're being children, but oh well, whatever.

You're got you know, you want to get married and that's good. So you're married and here we go. And um this is I

mean I I would have been whatever, but but at our house it would have been uh

you know, Bridezilla and her mother. And so um It's It's kind of like that's that's what we would have had to deal with here. So and that's what happened here. >> I don't think they're going to pay you back and I think it's just going to become a low contact or no contact relationship. So the question is is it worth souring this whole thing over eight grand? >> soured over eight grand. >> And so it's just going to make it worse.

I just can't imagine where this goes. I I just wouldn't throw this I wouldn't throw this down. I'd I'd just let it ride and move on. 20 years from now, it's just be uh a not funny memory. That's what it'll be 20 years from now. No one No one I'm still not laughing 20 years later. I'm still Don't bring it up, okay? But I got I got a couple of those in my life. I got stuff that 20 years ago happened.

>> Things everybody knows. Let's just not talk about it. >> I don't you know, don't I have got PTSD from COVID. Don't bring it up, you know? It's just like It's not funny. There's still not funny. You masked people, you're still not funny. And so all that stuff, you know, and all that. It's okay. We'll just keep moving. We're We're all good. We're all on the same planet. Life's good. Yeah. Ryan's in Reno. Hey Ryan, what's up in your world?

Howdy Dave. Thanks for taking my call.

>> Sure, man. How can we help?

Yeah, I have a quick question. So I rent an apartment. I pay about 1,500 a month.

My lease is up in June, but in part of

the lease agreement I have to give notice two months in advance. And

basically my question is the market rate

for my unit is down a hundred dollars

from when I originally leased the apartment three years ago. You mean they're you mean that apartment complex is currently leasing a similar unit for a hundred dollars less?

Correct. So my question is should I commit to a new lease for a year and keep paying what I'm paying or should I

should I go month to month and go at the current market rate which would be a hundred dollars less?

Well, how long you going to stay there?

Well, now that's another good question.

I mean I'm planning to stay at least another six months, but they don't do six month leases and Well, then you're month to month, aren't you? So you're saying you go month to month and have flexibility and a hundred dollars less.

You're month to month.

So that's what I'm saying and they couldn't tell me when I asked the manager I was like if I go month to month would it be what I'm what you guys are currently selling for or would I currently >> It will be or I'm leaving. Yeah, you've got some leverage here. >> Yeah, I can leave. That's another option.

That is true, but it's just a hassle to move everything and go somewhere else.

>> that big of a hassle. It's a one bedroom apartment. It's your buddy's and a six pack of beer and a pickup truck.

That's good. That's good. Okay. It's not that big of a deal.

Don't don't make this into something it ain't. I mean I would go in there and go guys I'm going to go ahead and give you my notice now for June. I'm not going to be here. I'm going to go to month to month and I'm only going to go to month to month if you give me the price that you put up that your street price and otherwise I'm just going to leave.

So what do y'all want to do? >> Right.

>> make sense for me to pay more. Exactly.

I'm not paying more than the other some dude walks in off the street and I'm already in the thing. So you know, I mean you sit down and talk to the manager. Have a calm nice pleasant conversation. You don't have to be as rude as I'm being, but um but you know, you're just making the point that are obvious and but let the message be known.

We're going to month-to-month and we're going at the $100 less rate or we're going somewhere else. And if they're jerks about it, that's a sign you should not be staying there. Yeah, yeah. And it's just an apartment, man. You didn't you know, it's not a it's not a wedding.

That's true. You're you're going to move the wedding. You're going to move the wedding up and cost somebody money. It wasn't $8,500 worth. >> $100. But there's a lot of incompetent sort of like the front desk person who can't do anything and so you kind of have to go above that to someone who can make those decisions and change the lease cuz some people go, "Oh, it's the policy. Can't do anything." >> know, I think you get it in writing. Yeah. For sure. Basically powerless people have the power to say no only.

Exactly. And you go, "Well, I guess they said no." No, go beyond that. Push a little bit. We're not we're not through yet. We're just starting.

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Sarah's in Pittsburgh. Hey Sarah, how are you? I'm good. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve. How can we help?

So, I'm on baby step number two and my question is how do I implement it properly if my budget only allows for minimum payments?

Um something's got to change.

So, your income has to go up or your outgo has to go down. We've got to sell something that's got debt on it. What do you owe on your cars?

So, I made a couple of bad decisions in the last year. 123,000 of this debt um

has just I've just accumulated in the last year. On what?

>> So, um I have about I had a couple of

bad decisions that I thought a year ago I was in a good financial space.

Um and I I had a rental income rental property that needed some work and I took out a $40,000 um HELOC so that I could do that work on that property.

Um I also bought a new vehicle uh well, a new to me vehicle, a 2023

um and I owe 28,000 on that. Okay. Um

And what's your household income?

>> So, my household income has changed. In the last 6 months I lost my dad, I lost my job, and I

separated from with my husband. Oh my gosh.

I'm sorry. So, so my income is around

75,000. Why did I you like I'll say you lost your job, got a new job. Good.

Okay. Yes. >> And how long have you been married?

15 years. I'm so sorry.

Okay. Are y'all attempting counseling or is this going to end in divorce?

It is going to end in divorce. Okay. Um

I was going to counseling individually for um about 5 months. I have I stopped that

about 4 months ago when I got laid off from my job cuz I just couldn't um >> Sure. couldn't afford Okay. So, the rental property is going to end up on you So, in the divorce?

>> It is going to be where it's where I'm living now. I moved into the rental property last month.

And my husband kept the house that we were in.

Okay.

All right. >> Um and so we started >> talking about how things split up on all this?

Um basically, I get my car and my dad, I

get this house, and it's payments, and

he gets his.

Um So, the 123 is all yours.

Correct. Okay. But, that's the 40 on the

HELOC on the house you moved out of?

No, the house I moved into. It has a HELOC on it.

Correct. >> Okay. What's the first mortgage on My mortgage is 155. Okay. And the HELOC

is 40. So, you owe 195, and the house is worth what?

275 Okay, all right. And uh you make 75

and what other debts have we got then?

Is the 40 and the 123?

Yes. Okay, so one So 40 and 28 is 68.

What's the rest of the 123?

I have 54,000 in consumer credit card debt that I have racked up in the last Uh well I 20,000 of it was prior um prior to

this other financial situation. I you know, I spent 15,000 on

a dream vacation before um my family split up and

I was in a a financial position then that it wasn't such a good situation.

>> making before?

Um So to get my husband and I together No, what were you making at your other job before you made 75?

Um 80 85 >> didn't take much of a pay cut. What does he make? >> No. 110 What are the child and you have children? Yes, I have three children. What ages?

19, 17, and 14 >> Oh my gosh.

Okay.

All right, so So my husband >> Let's let's just put a bracket Let's put a bracket around this. Let's put a bracket around this on the math part, okay? There's a lot of emotion and a lot of hurt and a lot of broken hearts, but the math

is you make 75,000 a year, you have a 28,000 car, and you have a house you can't afford and a car you can't afford.

I could afford the house and the car if I didn't have the credit card debt, but >> But you have the credit card debt.

No, you really can't.

The car is stupid.

And so was the vacation.

I agree. I I >> stuff what it is, okay? I agree they were stupid. I purchased them before. I >> I know. I knew that this was going to be >> up the mess, but you can't you can't defend it then. I can afford the car is not something that should ever come out of your mouth. You have a $30,000 car, you make $75,000 a year. No.

The problem with the car is I owe 28,000 on it and the value is only 27. So?

>> I can't even sell it and get out from under it. >> You come up with a thousand bucks. Yeah, you sell it. Don't pay the credit cards for two months and sell the car and get a $2,000 car.

Ta-da. We just got rid of What is the payment on this stupid thing? 1,200 bucks? Uh 653. Oh god. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, it's killing you.

You told us you didn't have margin. So, the thing because you've been through this tremendous heartbreak, you've given yourself permission

to do things you shouldn't have done.

Go on a vacation and buy a car and run up credit cards.

Okay, so we have to say we have to undo as much of that as we can undo.

What do you do for a living?

Um I have three jobs. My My main source

of income, I negotiate leases and I

bring in about 42,000 at that. My

secondary income is real estate and I bring in about 25,000 in that.

>> Selling real estate? Selling residential real estate? Yes, sir. Okay. All right. And then I

>> doing that?

Uh eight years. Okay. So, it's time to get good at it now.

You You need to go make 150,000 selling houses.

I would love to. I just don't know how.

Yeah, your raise is effective when you are. I mean, yeah, you do. You've been around people that make that kind of money selling real estate. You've been doing this eight years. You've seen top performers. What do they do that you don't do?

So, I specialize in Not anymore.

>> first time home buyers and Not anymore.

family Now you specialize in money.

I specialize in selling houses for money. That's what I specialize in now.

You You don't You're not You're not in a position to be niche.

You got to go make money.

And I want you to go make a 150, 200,000 dollars a year selling a bazillion freaking houses. Instead of selling a house every other month, I want you to sell five a week. You've been doing it part-time. So imagine if you went all in on this. >> you This is you are you are a miss real estate girl with the glamour shot on her business card, the whole thing.

You got to do something to get your income up. How do I come up with the extra hours to put into it when I you know my my other day job is 8:00 to 4:00 and then I just

picked up a bartending job on Friday and Saturday and >> the bartending went away and you're going to be in the real estate business.

Okay.

And um you know and I'm going to start I'm going to get away from that other day job as fast as I can cuz you can't pay squat $40,000 a year.

Boo. Boo. Boo.

So we got to get your income up. We got to think differently about these decisions that got us here so that we don't even ever say out loud again that there was a good reason for these things. They just were happening during a broken heart time and I made bad decisions. And you said that early on and then you went back and said, "Yeah, but I need the car." And the car's The car's bull crap. The car's It's awful.

Get rid of it. It represents a bunch of things about you that you don't like. I want to get rid of it. I want it out of my driveway.

I don't want to look at this thing anymore. I want to get rid of it. And uh and I'm going to get in gear and start selling houses like a crazy person. And that's the good news cuz you you actually have been around the business enough you know go get a hold of two or three of the top performers and say, "Teach me what you do.

Let me join your team and help you with do what you do. I got to make more money and I'm getting ready to put it in gear like I've never put it in gear in my entire life.

And it's a it's a clean white board.

Brand new year. Grace, mercy.

Time to start over.

And then you chop up the credit card.

So, first thing you do is you pay food.

The second thing you do is you pay lights and water. Third thing you do is you pay the two house payments. Fourth thing you do is you pay the stupid car payment till you get rid of the stupid car.

And until you do that, you don't pay anybody anything.

So, the credit cards are way down the list. They don't get paid nothing right now. Nothing. "What about credit?" You don't need credit. You're broke.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Alyssa in Vermont.

I'm in my late 20s and trying to be more organized regarding my finances. Do you think using AI for things like tracking spending and setting budgets is a smart and practical approach, or should people stick to more traditional methods?

Interesting. I have seen some videos online of people using AI to try to help

them kind of get control of their money, but it really does a terrible job when it comes to actually tracking your actual spending, cuz it can't pull in your transactions. It doesn't know your life. Here's the thing. AI is only as

effective as the data set that you feed it.

And so, if it doesn't have the data, it can't crunch it.

And so, you have to you have to build the budget anyway for it to know what to do, or it's clueless. >> It doesn't know your actual expenses.

>> It can't read your mind. It's not It's not a spiritual thing. It's just you feed it a data set and it crunches it.

That's all it is. And so, like we built Ask Ramsey, okay?

You go to our website at ramseysolutions.com and you can ask Ramsey any question you want to ask on the show, but you couldn't get through on the show, okay? So, what is the A and it's an AI tool. We built it. It's an No one else has touched it but Ramsey.

What's in the data set? Uh 5 years of the calls from this show

and the answers we gave are dumped into the data set. All the Financial Peace University videos are dumped in the data set. All the books that the personalities and I have written are dumped into the data set.

And so, it's a pure data set, so it's going to give you an actual Ramsey answer to a money question. It's not

going to give you an answer of anything else. Had nothing to do with Reddit. Had nothing to do with that bunch of crap on the internet. We There's no There's no trash in the data set. And that's the problem, Alyssa, with trying to do what you're doing cuz personal finance the key to fixing personal finances understanding that personal finance is 80% behavior, 20% head knowledge. AI can

help you with the head knowledge, but you still got to deal with the person in your mirror.

And when you actually take the Every Dollar budgeting app and lay out and put your budget together, your brain is affecting that and you're making a commitment to you that this is how much I'm going to spend on groceries, this is how much I'm going to spend on uh eating out, which is not at all I'm getting out of debt. This is how much I'm going to do whatever with and you've made a commitment to you. That's right.

>> And And so, you've begun at just by the very act of you putting the number into the Every Dollar app, you have begun to modify your own behavior. AI can't do that for you. Now, once we've got the Once you've got all the data in there and let's say you've been in Every Dollar for 2 years, are we going to have some AI in the background helping you manipulate your data? Yes. Not yet, but

we will have by the time you get there. >> Yeah. And so, uh because that's a good use of AI. >> Because we actually know your goals, we can help steer you. Whereas AI is going to be a little more >> read your mind. It's going to be a little more agnostic. >> Yeah, I don't want I don't want an you don't want a budgeting tool of any kind

that auto populates the numbers in the sense of in the sense of it just makes up a number and drops it.

>> Cuz you need to look at it and say, "For me, Alyssa in Vermont, this is what I

need to spend on rent." It doesn't need to auto populate your rent. And when you

actually type it into EveryDollar, you need to go, "Holy crap, my rent's really high." Or "Holy crap, I got a really good deal renting this garage apartment out back from this old lady's house. You know, I got a deal." And you your brain is starting to verify your numbers and your behaviors at that point. And so, uh It's not going to help you spend less on DoorDash. After you've gotten control >> and I've run a budget for many years, and AI could access that data, it could be really helpful.

But when you're starting, I'm more concerned that you learn to control you than you do math right. Yeah, you know your spending habits. You know what's going on. So, I would start with EveryDollar for sure.

Yeah, and if you're working the baby steps, it's going to give you it's going to prompt you again like the Ask Ramsey thing. It's going to prompt you what we would tell you to do. So, if you wonder what George Campbell would say to do, EveryDollar's going to be telling you right then. When you put that down, it's going to go, "Hey, by the way, it looks like you're missing this." Or you're spending a lot over here. What if you cut that back to save this much money?

>> a tax refund. You want to adjust that W-2. You know, it looks like you're doing this, and you may not want to do that. It looks like you got the you know, and we're going to give you some Ramsey input as you're building your budget out.

So, it's not agnostic. It's got Ramsey flavor. It's not quite as sassy as I want it to be. I want it to be smart alec.

>> We'll dial it up. But I digital smart alec's hard to dig get going, but um if I ever figure out how to do it I'm going to make a lot of money cuz digital Smart Alex cool. >> People have been asking for the Dave function on Ask Ramsey where it just spits out the Dave response.

Just don't do stupid stuff button. It starts with that's a stupid question but here's the answer. That that would be fun. I would like that. Dave how do I build my credit? >> that's there. None of that's there and they're not going to actually do it even though in my dreams I think it's funny.

But yeah. So check out every dollar for free download it in the app store and always keep in mind that when you are doing anything that doesn't prompt your

brain to make a measurement on your budgeting stuff you're probably off track cuz you need to be making measurements as you go along. And when you're spending money in marketing we call that friction. If if when you spend money you feel it that's your brain

telling you I just spent money. But if you just like Apple Pay and I have no idea what you pay for that. I don't know it's on Apple Pay. I didn't even look.

It's just Apple Pay. I just wave my phone and crap jumped in my basket you know. And it's like that's drives me crazy. No friction at all right?

But you know submit and you know prime prime prime prime prime prime. Now it's on auto. >> 18 cases of toilet paper on the front porch. >> had a subscription to it and it just shows up.

>> It should yeah oh yeah you subscribe to your stupidity. Yeah that's it. Regular regular diet of it. But yeah that that's the thing you want stuff that tells you when you're off.

When you actually spend green cash with

presidents faces on them there have been studies done that shows that it activates the pain centers of the brain.

So like you get ready to buy groceries and you slide two Uncle Benjamins across to the cashier your brain goes ouch.

When you wave Apple Pay your brain doesn't know anything happen. It doesn't feel it.

Cuz it there's no recognition. But there's something about our brains going, I just freaking spent money. When you use a debit card and you know it's coming out of your checking account right then, versus a credit card that someday I'll pay, I hope I pay it this month, but I might someday pay it. Right? Bull crap.

There's a difference between the debit card and credit card. They look just alike visually, but your brain is going, you just spent money. >> You're using your money now. >> have some money in that account when you're using your debit card. When you're using a credit card, you're like, oh, I'll deal with this later. You know, maybe. >> Problem for future me to deal with.

>> Using someone else's money. >> future me, but yeah. Uh and but even the

debit card doesn't activate the pain centers like cash does. If you want to start spending less money, start spending more cash.

You'll go to the ATM. >> You'll you'll limit your spending because you go, crap.

Those groceries were expensive.

Well, now it's on trend. You You did the cash envelope system 30 years ago, and now the Gen Z'ers are calling it cash stuffing. They make videos of them stuffing the envelopes with the exact amount of cash, which it's a great trend. I'm glad it's coming back, but they're acting like they invented it.

I didn't invent it either. The first time it came up is the 1930s. Wow. Cuz you got paid on Friday in cash in a envelope.

And you walked out with your paycheck and you broke it up, put a little in a grocery envelope, a little bit in the rent envelope, a little bit in this. And people have sent me ledgers that their grandmother and their great-grandmother kept with the envelopes in the back of them from the 1920s and 30s.

I mean, the number of people that wrote checks. >> to budget. >> If you wrote a check in the 1930s, you were rich. Rich people did I mean, no nobody but rich people wrote checks. >> Only the elite had access to checks.

>> was no credit cards cuz there was no credit cards until the late 1950s up into the 60s. And in the 70s is when the credit card actually took off. So, you know, you go back and so, yeah, the Gen Z'ers didn't invent it, but I didn't either. I had the We actually sell an envelope system in the store. >> got it. Rachel's Rachel's wallet has a built-in envelope. >> That's a fancier version. Looks better.

>> Yeah. That's what rich people do. The Rachel envelope. Future rich people. That's a good history lesson, Dave. Thanks for walking us down there. Yeah, well, it's good it's it's it's good to remember if you that you're managing behavior, you're not managing numbers.

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Chelsea is in Lubbock, Texas. Hi Chelsea, how are you?

Hi, I'm great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Good. Um I was just calling because I'm looking for some advice on how I can get my husband to be a little bit more comfortable, um how I could encourage him to be more comfortable spending money. Um he tends to put a big value

uh behind everything that we spend on um

as if it's wasteful and that sort of thing. Um we just we have a

>> He's very cheap. Yeah, my wife is too.

Yeah. Well, for example, we went I wanted a Five Guys burger for dinner one night and um he, you know, joyfully went

out and got it for me and he comes back with a bag from there and a bag from Burger King. And I asked him who got Burger King, you know, we have two young kids, so I thought that maybe. And he said, "No, the burger at Five Guys was $18." So, he got me a burger there and got himself Burger King. You know, we never we're not big Burger King people. He doesn't like Burger King, it's just cheaper. And so, he chose He likes the price, not the taste. Yes. Got it.

That's hilarious. But at least he got you Five Guys. He didn't come back >> worth of gas driving across town to Burger King, but Yes. Yeah.

Um I we have a 6-month-old and I preheated the oven to start dinner and I went in to feed baby and put him down and I come out to the oven being turned off. Um and and he just he thought I had I it was just wasteful to leave the oven on and I was like, "Well, it was preheating." And he's like, "Well, the electric bill will go up if we just leave the oven on." That's called preheating, doofus. Yeah.

Wow. It sounds like he must have had a childhood where dad and mom were like, "Hey, it's tight. We got to save money anywhere we can." Yeah, when was he wounded?

>> He did have um some experiences as a kid. You know, it was like brand new dirt bikes one day and then um you know, a Hawaii vacation and then suddenly they can't afford the vacation they're on. And they they have to go to grocery store and now they're they're buying food. They they can't afford to be there. Um you know, from we learn from mistakes that his dad had made >> How old is is your is your husband?

He's 30. And you guys have been married 10 years?

Um yep, this year. Okay. Mhm. Okay.

Yeah. And so we you know Well, I I think I think it starts it starts with saying, "Okay, being frugal and wise with money

is the hallmark of wealthy people. Uh wealthy people are careful with their money. But the Burger King and the preheating the oven is just weird.

That's not careful. That's just strange.

Okay? So, we can start with a conversation with you have a natural tendency that's going to cause our family to be very successful and that is you're going to watch and be careful with money. The downside is is that you're never going to be able to enjoy it.

Mhm. And you're never going to have the ultimate joy of it, which the most fun

you'll ever have with money is when you give it away.

Generosity. >> Mhm. Generosity. When you put a set of tires

on a single mom's car and she's working three jobs and it cost you a thousand dollars, that's the most fun you ever have in your life.

Mhm. >> When when you leave a three hundred dollar tip at Thanksgiving for the pregnant Waffle House waitress, Mhm.

that's the most fun you'll ever have with money in your life. And you can't do that in the mindset that he's in. He can't do that. His brain won't let him do that. Well, and so that there he he actually is is generous giver. It just comes from our family. >> not. Well, I mean, we >> Cuz he can't even give to himself. He can't even leave the oven on. >> That's true. Okay? So, no, he's not. I mean, he he I'm not saying he's a bad guy. I think he's a great guy.

I think he just has the if I were coaching him, if he were to call me, I would just say, "You need to have some fun." Mhm. And you need to have some fun.

Because this guy's never going to be irresponsible. It's impossible.

Yeah. >> He's never going to impulse a Porsche.

No. It's It's His brain would explode.

He just can't do He couldn't do it. And I don't want him to. So, if the Mhm. if I get this guy feeling like he's gone wild, now he's just normal.

>> Yeah. Mhm. Now, he's just a regular human now.

Cuz I mean, he's just he's just wired up about this. So, I want him to enjoy money. There's three things you can do with money. You can invest it for the future, being careful and frugal. You can enjoy it, and you can give it to others. That's the only three things you can do with it.

Mhm. And you should be doing all three if you're healthy spiritually. >> Mhm. If you're healthy emotionally and relationally. And so, honey, I want us to enjoy the money. I don't want us to be irresponsible. I'm so happy you're here.

I'm so I'm always going to be provided for. We're always going to have money because you are going to make sure of it. I'm never going to worry about money because I have you.

And you're going to learn to have fun because you have me.

I'm going to help you have fun. I'm guessing it's partially why he married you. Oh, yeah. I I'm the one that plans the trips and the the extra things that we're doing and stuff. But But I mean, you're right. He is the He is responsible. I feel like I I'm responsible, too, in the sense. But I feel like there's definitely I'm trying to figure out a way of >> I'm not saying you're irresponsible. I'm just saying he's hyper-responsible.

He is very hyper-responsible. I mean, if I if I bought a name brand ketchup, you know, he's like, "What did we win the lottery?" You know, and I'm like, "Okay, well, you know, Next time you say that, I'm going to hit you with the ketchup.

I'm going to smack you across the forehead with the ketchup bottle.

Yeah. He isn't serious. That's That's so silly. That's so silly. Do you guys do a monthly budget? Do you actually sit down and look at the numbers?

Yes, we use every dollar. And there's money left over at the end of the month, right? Oh, yes. Where does that all go?

Um just to investments. I mean, we invest about 20% of our income. Um we

make about 250k a year. And how much do you have in your nest egg?

Um we're Our net worth is about 800,000. Got you.

At 30, you're about to be millionaires and you're 30 years old. See, I told you the guy's a great guy. I mean, what what he's doing is working, but he really has got to dial this back about 5%.

The ketchup bottle thing and the cut in the oven off thing and the Burger King thing, that's just over in the weird column, y'all.

I mean, that's just that's strange.

Okay? Yeah. And so, quit being strange.

I'd tell him to go to therapy, but I assume he won't pay for it.

SO, THAT'S KIND OF A CONUNDRUM THERE.

YOU MIGHT HAVE TO TELL HIM it's free. The first one's free. He may be able to see a counselor at Go have coffee with a friend, but I'd have to buy the coffee. Yep.

Too frugal for his own good.

Oh. No, seriously, it it's and I'm going to send you a copy of Rachel's book, uh Know Yourself, Know Your Money, and she talks about family of origin.

And it's one of the things that causes people to make the decisions we make in our um upbringing. And Rachel and Winston are a little bit like y'all.

Winston's the tighter, more conservative one, and Rachel's the fun girl.

Right? And so, and Winston really needs

Rachel cuz he wouldn't be any fun without Rachel. And Rachel really needs Winston cuz he's super responsible, and they've got a great net worth, and they do a great job managing money, and they they you know, she teaches him how to have fun, he teaches her how to save money. I mean, it's a This is a ongoing thing. They've been married 12 years.

I mean, this is how they do it. And that's the same with Sharon and Sharon Sharon's the saver, I'm the spender. And you know, I'm the frugal one in our house. So, I relate but I don't go this far.

I don't go this far if Whitney comes home with the Heinz ketchup instead of the you know, generic brand.

unless it's Kirkland. I at least try to go I find what's on sale and that's kind of how I shop. Okay. But if Whitney goes out shopping, I don't expect her to live by my standards. Your weirdness.

Exactly. There there we go. But you know what I did is I forced myself to spend money in the budget. So, I have George fun money.

Oh, you know what? That's a good idea. >> to spend it. That's why I asked about the budget.

Yeah, we need to put a fun category for boy child in there and let him go have some fun. You have to spend some money on you. Otherwise >> that I did that and when we first started with with Sharon because we had clothing envelopes. We're talking about the envelopes a while ago.

And she spent it all on the kids clothes. She said, "Well, I don't need anything." I don't need anything. I'll just make something out of the drapes, you know.

I mean, seriously. And so, I had to separate the envelopes. We had Sharon's clothing. Yep. Kids clothing. And you

can't spend anything in that envelope except what the envelope says. So, you have to spend this on you.

And she's gotten over that by the way.

Now she's very comfortable. She's particularly shoes, yeah. But I mean, she yeah, she very comfortable buying Isn't this cute?

Yeah, that just cost me that. >> Now she's a shoe museum. It's so cute.

Come on. Look at how unbelievably how cute that is. But >> of you guys, Dave. That's progress. >> Well, I mean I mean, that's only 40 years we've been working on it. So, we eventually get there. But yeah, make him have a category with his name on it and he has to spend it on something fun.

And something that's irresponsible and wild and crazy. He needs a hobby.

>> Give him a hobby and give him 30 bucks a month to do that. Yeah, make him spend some money on a hobby and he'll go, "Gosh, this is actually fun." And he'll start to unwind a little bit from the tightwad syndrome. That's a good idea.

That's a good idea, George. That's better than all the other blabbing I did in the whole call. I'm a man of brevity.

Yeah. Well, you got right to it, I can tell you that.

Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

They're not budgeting, then they're shocked when their bank account hits triple zeros. Well, here's the deal.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. I'm Dave Ramsey. Daniel is on

the line in Salt Lake City. Hi Daniel, how are you?

Hey fellas, how that doing? Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help?

Oh, so I got divorced about 2 years ago. Mhm.

Um well, separated 2 years ago, finalized a year ago.

Um there is effectively starting over financially.

Um pretty much lost all the equity in the house.

Um and I'm 42.

I've learned a lot of the basics on I

won't say basics, I've actually learned finance within that point. I actually understand money now, but it just feels like I'm too late. It feels like I'm too far behind.

Um and I'll never catch up to actually retire at a decent age with my back still straight. Yeah.

Um you you said you're 40, right?

42. 42. Got divorced at 40. Yeah, and

your um your income is what, sir?

Right now, it's about 85,000. Okay.

All right. And um so the house and a bunch of the stuff went away. Uh did you end up with debt also, or are you debt free but have nothing? Are you at even?

Debt free but have nothing. Okay. You have anything in a 401k from before?

Yes, but it's well, so from before, no.

Um we >> went to her.

Well, yes and no. It's not like she kept it. The the context is one of the main one of the main reasons we divorced was she racked up a lot of debt behind my back. Oh, okay. All right. And so, you cleaned out the 401k to pay that, so you got nothing.

Um I've I never I've never formally had one because I worked I I worked construction my whole life, and I worked for smaller companies that never offered a retirement. >> Okay. All right. I'm just trying to catch up. So, you literally have no debt, but you have but you're renting a house or an apartment.

Yes, correct. And you have no debt on your car.

Correct. I got a I I I mean, I did that smart. I got a 2010 Toyota Tundra. I just rolled over 251,000 miles, never broken. I love the maintenance.

>> That car will go another 250. That's a great car. Yes, sir. >> Okay. Um And you're working construction, so that's perfect truck for it, absolutely.

Uh but but but but but >> I've taken I've I've taken a promotion.

Um I'm I'm now in the management side rather than the field install. Okay. All right. Um >> Well, here's the thing. Yeah, and >> biggest thing you have to overcome is not the mathematical challenge of being okay by age 65 because that's a laydown.

We can You definitely are going to be fine. You're going to be a multi-millionaire when you >> show you how to have a million bucks in an estate by then. But easy. Maybe two.

Okay? But the biggest thing you've got to overcome is two things. Um how long were you married?

Uh well, we were together for 21 years, married for 14. >> okay. So, you're grieving a death,

a broken heart, a relationship that died after 21 years.

And with that goes a broken heart. It goes anger. It goes loss of confidence in myself cuz I let this go on longer than I should have.

Um the part you played in it, that you just kind of turned a blind eye, and then finally you didn't. And all that crap. If you were just starting fresh without any scars on your heart, and you were just 18 years old and all smiles, we could just turn you loose on the world making 85,000, and you'd go have a bunch of money pretty quick. But you've got to overcome the lack of confidence in yourself, and quit looking in the rearview mirror.

It's smaller than the windshield. That's called grace.

Start looking forward instead of backwards so much. You're going to learn a few lessons that I didn't that I did wrong, but I want to not do those again, but that's all I got from the past. The rest of the past is just gone. It's past. It's over. Let's go forward and say, "Okay." Cuz George, 15% of 85,000,

did you run that? >> I ran the numbers for him here. From 42 to 67, you're you'd be investing a little over a thousand bucks a month if you follow our plan, 15% of your household income. You'd have 1.4 million, and that's at 10%. If you get 11 or 12, you're talking 1.6, 1.7, 1.8.

And that's if you never get a I think you're going to have 2 million dollars or more at 65.

If you do what we teach and you follow it. So, you're going to live on a written budget. You're not going to borrow money. You're going to have an emergency fund, and you're going to put 15% of your income, whatever you make the rest of your life, away into good retirements and good growth stock mutual funds. Get online, go to DaveRamsey.com,

find the SmartVestor Pro in your area that we have vetted and that we trust and that does stuff the way we teach, and they'll sit down and go, "Okay, your company has a 401k, you can do this." Or it doesn't and you can do that. And you can do this, and you can do this, and you need to be putting aside in your case right around a thousand dollars a month. That's about 15,000 dollars a year for I mean, about 15% of your income. And if you never get a raise

in the next 30 years, which would officially make you a loser, okay? If you never get a raise,

you're still going to have over a million and a half dollars. And that's with no employer match your whole life in a retirement account. >> match and you get raises, it's going to be more than that. But, you're going to have to do this as a as methodical as just every stinking month a thousand

dollars goes into something. And I I don't know what your mix is, what you're going to be able to put it in, but we're going to put it into Roth 401k's with the match first, and then we're going to put it into anything with a match second, and then we're going to put it into Roth IRAs, and all in good growth

stock mutual funds, and you're going to have serious money. And um stay out of debt so that you can do that. And when you start dating again

someday, and he's like, "Uh-uh." Well, you will. Um but um I mean, once you get past this a little bit, uh you know, you're looking for someone that wants to join you in this wealth-building venture, not

suck the marrow out of your bones.

And so you look you know, cuz you you can't make enough money when someone's sucking the marrow out of your burn bones to eat and up with anything but broken even at 42, which is where you are. So, you're fine.

You can become wealthy.

And you're going to be you're going to have a lot of money if you just simply follow this plan. But the biggest impediment you have today is a broken heart and confidence that it can be done. Cuz you're sitting there saying, "Oh, I don't know if it's too late." You're at 42.

YOU'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE to too late. If you call me up and you're 72, we'll have this discussion.

But you're 42.

You've got decades to make >> What's happening he's comparing his 42-year-old self to his 39-year-old self who had a bunch of money.

Well, now I know it sound like it's been ongoing, but I mean whatever is 34 years old is yeah. >> What I had and now I don't and now it feels like I'm behind. Well, >> Exactly. That's that's fair, too.

>> You'll hear callers on the show who are in crippling debt at your age who still have a mountain to climb cleaning this mess up, and you're in actually in a good spot. >> Yeah, you're >> All things considered. You have a great income. You don't have to talk anybody into this.

It's just you. You The guy in your mirror is the only one you got to talk into it. >> That's the only one that can mess it up. >> That's very That's a lot easier than the way you've been living.

You've been trying to push the rock up a hill by yourself.

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Art in Buffalo. Hey Art, how are you?

Hey Dave, hey George, how are you doing? Better than we deserve. How can we help?

So I got a question. I I'm calling to find out if our plan is possible. My fiance and I

want to retire within the next 5 to 7 years.

Um I'm 42, she's 45.

And we'd like to retire early.

What are you going to do with the rest of your life?

Travel.

We like to travel.

We do a lot of traveling now and that's the plan. We We have an RV now.

Um you know, that's So for 40 years

as long as you've already been alive, you're going to travel.

I like to travel, too. But my God, son.

You're going to do nothing for the next 30 years but travel?

Until we get bored of traveling.

Okay, I can't I I I I don't recommend that as a life decision.

I I don't think that's going to make you as happy as you think it is. Now, if you want to travel a lot while you have something that you actually do that contributes to your life and contributes to things, that's fine, too. But I wouldn't do nothing but travel

unless you said I'm going to do that for 2 years or something like that. That's fine, but to have that to be your only plan for 30 years is pretty shallow and I can't recommend that. I don't think it's going to make you as happy as you think it is. That I'm just going to tell you. Anyway, let's answer your question anyway about your numbers. So, your fiance, when are you getting married?

Um that's probably within the next year.

Okay. Got that tacked down. Not at all. Okay.

And um What How much do you have saved?

So, I have 45,000 in my 401. I've got

10,000 in a high-yield savings, 10,000 in brokerage account.

I've got 50,000 in cash.

I've got a rental property that's paid off.

Right now, I only have about 45,000 in

in debt.

What does the rental property produce?

1,500 a month.

Man, you're going to be on beans and rice.

You're not retiring in 5 years.

And you're going to live on 1,500? You're going to travel on $1,500 a month?

So, no. I I mean, I plan on obviously contributing more to it in the next 5 to 7 years.

Yeah, like 5 or 600 grand?

What do you make?

Um together, we make almost 200,000.

Okay. All right.

If you want to save $100,000 a year for the next 5 years between the two of you and you get very specific on your marriage date so that you can do that safely without putting either one of you at risk, um $100,000 a year would 500,000 and then you've got the fifteen hundred a month coming in from the rental property.

That'll produce fifty grand a year give or take. So you'd have a sixty-five or seventy thousand dollar income to live on. Um that's not much traveling.

But I guess I get >> with with with her she's she's got two

hundred forty thousand in her deferred account. She's got fifty thousand in a Roth.

And I'll also get over all the money when I turn sixty plus social security.

You're not going to turn sixty for twenty years.

And you say you're forty-two?

Yeah. That's eighteen years. Yeah.

Okay.

Uh the answer to your question is no. I don't think you're going to be able to do what you can accomplish with the money you've got. Um Um if you want to you're just going to if you do it's going to be a very thin budget. I mean we're talking if gas prices go up the RV's parked.

I mean you I don't know what you're where you're going to be going on this kind of money. Cuz we're talking about you're going to have maybe fifty seventy-five maybe eighty thousand dollars a year to live on uh without destroying your nest eggs that you're building between now and then.

full-time will eat that up pretty quick.

>> Yeah, I don't know what kind of traveling you're do talking about doing but if that will do it for you then yeah you could do it. Um but that's a lot of truck stop food right there man. That's uh we're not doing fine dining here.

There's no Michelin stars involved in this process. Um yeah. And you you said you had only forty-five thousand dollars in debt and that tells me you've probably been funding a lot of this travel on credit cards with money you don't have and that part scares me. Yeah.

Um

I I I I think I would look for a different process and um so because I don't think this is the the you don't have the math ready um within the period of time we're talking about. So, what I probably would do is this.

Um I might retool and reset what I do for a living. That gives me a lot more flexibility to where I could travel 30

or 40% of the year, work the rest of the

time, not necessarily consecutive time, but take off a week here, a week there, 2 weeks here, 2 weeks there, that kind of thing. And the rest of time I run this business that I start.

And I'm making $100,000 a year, and I keep I keep an income stream going to fund the travel, and then let the nest egg build. Um I think you're going to have a better quality of travel and a better quality of life overall um than um I I'm having trouble picturing how this dream works out to be anything that's dreamy. I don't think it'll last for long is the problem. You know, you're going to have to go back to work eventually.

>> it's going to be a lot of stuff on the cheap, which will get old faster, you know, and um

given that you have income potential for another 30 years, um you know, that that's uh there's something left out of the equation here. I'm just not comfortable with this. So, I'm not going I'm not going to I wouldn't do it, so I can't tell you to do it. That's I I don't tell people to do stuff I wouldn't do.

Uh I can answer your question, and the question is you don't really you're not really going to have enough money in 5 or 6 years to do this well. It's going to be very tight if you do it, and you're going to struggle, and I would rather have a hybrid thing where I'm working less but instead of not at all, and traveling less than you have in your mind, but are able to do it at a better rate, a better quality of travel,

um get to go places, you know, and you know, it's that that you really

did dream about going to see. It's more of just a downshift. Instead of just um

feels like we're running away from a career I'm burnt out on rather than running to something. That's what's bothering me. >> Well, I find that a lot in the the FIRE movement, Dave, and it sounds like that's kind of what he's after here.

>> is not it's not even the FIRE movement's got better the FIRE movement's even got better goals than this stuff.

The goals associated with this are just horrible. I mean, the FIRE movement is not They're a little more clear about here's the number we need to hit. >> and you need a bigger number. It's always got a bigger number on it when I see that stuff. It's not um you know, we're It says seven-figure number. Yeah.

That they can live off of as a bridge until they get to actually retire.

>> your people with the FIRE movement because it it isn't what we teach, but it's out there. >> It's existed for a long time, and it's called financial independence retire early, and essentially it's let's work our tails off, get our income way up, keep our expenses way down, and then invest the margin in non-retirement investments so that we can use that as a bridge to live from 45, 50, 55 all the

way through retirement before we can access those funds. And some people do it, and if you I think if you the later you do it, the better your life is. The earlier you do it, what we find is that they either get bored, or they run out of money, or their goal post changes, and they realize I can't do this. I got to keep going, keep investing.

Well, it's Very few have done it successfully for their whole life.

The idea of not working is much more

appealing when you hate everything you do.

Um Which is a lot of these jobs.

>> And and it it's unrealistically appealing because I'm now 65 years old, and so my contemporaries, my friends have sold their businesses, and some of them are the most miserable they've been in their lives because they don't have anything to do.

They travel, and they play golf and they fish. >> smart people. And they they have they travel and they fish and they play golf and um And they're not very good. And they're not having as much fun as they were when they had their hand to something. And they will tell me that often. They're like, I envy you cuz you still work.

Well, you like the work you do. That makes all the difference.

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>> Sarah is in Portland, Oregon. Hi Sarah, how are you?

I'm doing great. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Nice. Um so, quick question. My aunt is

hiding debt from my uncle. Do I get

involved and tell him? Quick question and then convoluted story that kind of goes along with that. Oh, it has to be has to be a great story. Yeah, got to be a great story. How old are these two?

They're in their 60s. They have no retirement. One is not working on social

security. My aunt is not working on social security and husband is um >> How how did you get into this middle of this?

Uh they took me in when I was a child and raised me, so they're very much like my parents and their kids are very much like my siblings.

Okay. Are the other kids in on the secret as well?

Most of them as far as I know. That's who I've heard a lot of this from and from my aunt herself.

Okay. Why haven't they told her?

Him. Um Or him. Cuz they're they yeah, that nobody wants to be the rat.

Mhm. And now it's also generational. The daughter is doing the same thing to her husband. Mhm. Hiding debts.

Okay. Um well, I mean, you got two options. One is you just stand back and watch this thing unfold, which is bothering you, I can tell.

Um and I don't know the depth of your relationship. It sounds like more of a mother than an aunt, the way you're describing her. >> Correct. Um and I don't know how dysfunctional the lady is. I can tell she's a little bitter or a lot, but I don't know how bad it is.

Um so, what would happen if you sat down

with her and said, "Mom, what you're doing is wrong and I love Dad and I'm not going to let you do this to him." So, you have 4 days till Friday evening

to tell him. If you haven't told him by Friday evening, you're going to see my smiling face here Saturday morning. I'm going to tell him.

I can definitely do that. She has shared some of her debt already with him, but she's hiding some of it because she um

thinks that he's going to end up controlling everything she has and get really angry and blow up, which has happened in the past. Well, I think that's probably It's probably accurate.

Sounds like she needs that.

Yeah. And guess what? When you lie and deceive and cheat and hide Target bags under the bed, then it's not cute when you're 60.

It's just dysfunctional.

It's corrupt.

So, yeah, I I think he, you know,

I I I don't think he he should react any differently and but what they should do is put a game plan together that the two of them both have full transparency and they start handling their money together and then she can buy whatever that the two of them decide together that she can buy and he can buy whatever the two of them decide together that they can buy and so that we don't have to retire any dog food.

Yeah. Yeah, and that's the proper way of handling this is that not just get mad and become controlling, but get mad and go, "Okay, we're going to control this to the point that you don't do anything except that we do it together and I don't do anything except that we do it together." And that's the fix for this.

But I I, you know, it sounded like your reaction to my suggestion was that might work. You tell her you have a deadline and if you don't do it, I'm going to tell him.

Yes, I have been in the middle of um a little bit of stuff before where she's tried to hide something and I said, "No, you can't do that." And we won't help you with that and she didn't talk to me for months. Well, that's okay, too.

>> So, I was Okay. I mean, that because your other option is just be the rat.

Yeah. That's the third option. One is do nothing. Two is say you have till Friday or I'm going to tell him. That's not being a rat, that's being an adult.

I agree. And uh a rat is I sneak around behind her and use information on her against her and that's being a rat. But, just telling the truth in a dysfunctional situation to help clean it up, that's being an adult.

And think about this, their financial mess is going to become everyone's problem eventually.

She's already trying to make it their problem by >> worried about that. And that that you're in you are in the middle of this then say, "Hey, this is going to affect us.

It's already affecting us and we can't live like this anymore. You need to talk to her." I love you and I love Dad too much to participate in deception and in

things that are going to bring you all apart rather than together. They're going to cause you to be unsuccessful rather than successful. We want you to be successful and it starts with you coming clean and then you guys put together a plan and I'll coach you and be your cheerleader on how to do that if you want me to. But, you have until Friday, Mom.

Mhm. And then Saturday, my smiling face is going to be sitting there and on the front porch with a cup of coffee with Dad and you're going to know what we're talking about.

Yeah. And that's just because I'm not going to I'm not going to be a part of deception. That says things about me,

not about you and I'm not going to do that. And I love Dad too much to uh you

know, to be a part of something that's hurtful to him um just to protect you and somehow you're going to corner me like I'm 8 years old and I'm a rat. I'm not a rat.

I'm an adult. And this is dysfunction and we need to clean it up and we need to get transparency on it and alignment on it so we can work to the a forward future that is fun and successful again.

Joseph is in Athens, Georgia. How are you, Joseph?

I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um so I am 30 years old. I've lived my

life very frugally and I tried saving as much as I can. Um I currently have a mortgage, which is my only debt.

Um and I'm paying that off aggressively.

And I'm getting married in about a month. Good for you. >> And Thank you. My uh future wife will be coming in with a substantial amount of debt.

Um How much? And I have the about 220,000. >> Good lord, is she a doctor or a lawyer?

Um she'll be a pharmacist. All the debt is from student loans. Just for her school. She paid a lot for her pharmacy school. Okay, so she's going to make 135,000 a year, right?

About that. Yes, sir.

Almost like I've done this before.

And uh she's got $220,000 in debt and you make what?

Um it's ranged significantly over the last 4 years. Last year I made 450. Good for you. What do you do?

Um I own a roofing company. Good for you. Man, I love it. Yeah, you're printing money. And um How much do you have saved?

If I pull everything together, it's about 700,000.

>> And and non-retirement or does that include retirement?

Um there's about 50 in retirement and the rest is just stock accounts. Okay.

So after you get married, you could just write a check and pay off the student loan, right?

I could. Every time I go to well, based

on based on your teachings, um I would never do that until the day after we get married. Good. But, every time I go to

get that in order, sell stocks or things like that, um it's hard. Oh, yeah, makes

you want to throw up a little in the back of your mouth, yeah. Oh my gosh.

It's this buffer that you've built is really hard. I mean, you're you're a frugal saver and we're getting ready to go the opposite direction at 100 miles an hour. Of course, it makes your stomach come up in your throat. If it didn't, you'd be weird.

Yeah, that's Yeah. Now, were you guys aligned on the money values in general?

>> Going forward and never doing this again?

Um we are. Um it's pharmacy was always her dream and and she actually was on a full ride for undergrad and this is all grad school. And she got completely screwed then. Okay. It's all in-state. Oh, yeah. She paid She paid double, triple what she should have. Okay, it doesn't matter now, it's behind her. But, are you guys aligned we're never doing this again for any dream or anything or anything I want or never again?

I couldn't do I can't do it again. I can do it one time, honey, but if we if you think I'm going to live my whole life doing this,

We are completely aligned on we have no intent to ever have debt on anything ever again. And she's she's saying that loudly and with strength in her voice, not just going along with Joseph.

Completely bought in. Okay.

>> All right, cool. Yes, then that's what I would do, but I will also sympathize and empathize with you that you know, you're going to need a good stiff double shot of bourbon right after you do this. Oh my gosh. >> She's worth it and this sucks.

Yeah, this is She's worth every dime of it and but man, it's just that's hard. You've been working a long time to build this up.

>> back up. Man, oh, they'll be there in no time.

>> Speaking of things that make you want to throw up a little bit, tax season is here.

But, gross.

If you want some free checklists and guides that'll help you file, go to ramseysolutions.com/taxes

and we'll help you with the process.

Doesn't cost a thing. I noticed the word was free. Did you notice that? Chris is with us in uh Miami. Hi, Chris. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Um so, let me give you a little bit of what's going on. I'm 25. I just got out of jail 8 months ago.

Since then, I've been at a program which has been allowing me to work. They allow you to work uh after a certain period of time. So, I've been working about 6 months at a car wash or dealership or whatever.

Um I have a few certifications. I've

saved up 6K, like 6.6, but I have debt

and I'd say that's like around 13,000.

I could like break it down, but that's another thing I have going on. And I mentioned the certifications I have, but not it's not like but I just I'm kind of lost at finding a career, too. So, I'm basically just trying to like invest and change my life around and like that. So Good for you. Good for you. Way to go. I'm proud of you.

So, how long were you in jail? >> Aggravated.

I was in jail 10 months. For what? A felony?

Yes. Okay.

Do you want to know the charge? I don't care. If you want to tell me, it's fine.

Uh It was an aggravated battery and a and a grand theft auto. Okay. All right.

So, have you got all that kind of behavior stuff in your rearview mirror because that's going to be uh a condition for you to be successful.

I mean, obviously that has to be something we never go near again to be successful in a career and in business.

Agreed?

All right, of course. Okay. I mean, that's obvious, right?

Yes. Okay. Cool. I'm just going to say it out loud cuz I'll make sure we're all on the same page. So, I'm proud of you, man. Good for you.

So, we're going to get a clean fresh start. How old are you?

I'm 25. Okay. And you say you're working at a car wash now. What are you making now?

Uh 14 flat uh tips with tips. So Okay. All right.

Cool. And what do you do to get tips? Like super uh dry the windshield and all when they come through the car wash and run around and smile and make sure they get a super extra touch of niceness and and you're smiling and they give you a tip. Is that how that works?

Right. Yeah, basically. Yeah, lots of energy and eye contact and smiles and people skills, right?

Yes. That's a good thing to practice, by the way. That that works in the boardroom, that works at the car wash, that works at the table when you're serving in a restaurant, that works just about anywhere you go. Okay. So, that's a good thing to work through. Those are soft skills. >> Yeah. >> You need those. Now, um is the plan to continue to work there for a while or what's your plan right now?

Um the plan cuz I could be leaving the

program earliest in June, latest in December if I get an extension. The plan now is to save as much money as

possible. I'm around I'm at 6,000. I want to leave with 10,000. Good. So, the plan now is to save as much as possible for when I have to pay rent and start living on my own and find a career. Like I can't even stress that enough. >> Yeah, good for you. I like that a lot.

Okay, what are you thinking about doing as a career?

Um, I'm not sure. I I can tell you the couple of certifications I have. I have a certification in OSHA 10. I could join a union, be a welder. I heard that's a good thing. Um, I have a forklift certification and I just got certified in being a personal trainer. I had an interview. I didn't get the job, but um,

the people at the program are telling me just to keep going and keep and stay positive. So, those are the three certifications I have right now.

Okay. I have experience in other jobs, of course, but Okay, on the short term on the short term, I like the welding and the forklift because you're probably going to make 30 to 40 bucks an hour at either one of those.

Um, and the the personal trainer is going to take a while to build a book of business where you start making a living. Um, >> That's like a nights and weekends thing to start building up. >> that might be my side hustle and I practice some of those soft skills we're talking about and you know, you're interacting your people skills and so forth while there. The people skills.

Meanwhile, I'm driving a forklift 40 hours a week making 30, 40 bucks an hour. Uh, I'm looking for that right now if I'm you. So, the trade the good news is welding and and anything the trades where you're driving something, those kinds of things, there's a shortage of help right now and it's a really good job market for you. So, if I'm you, I'm going to start really looking for those two things right now, even though you're not going to start today. You're still in the program, but I want to know 16

people that are hiring forklift driving within a 30-mile or 40-mile radius if you're going to stay in the Miami area.

Um or if you're going to move, you know, up into Fort Lauderdale, where are we going? Where are we going to get that kind of a job? The good news is that's a big metropolitan market there, huge

market, one of the top five cities areas in the nation, and so lots of things happening there in commerce and welding and in forklifting. So, um I I want you to go, you know, practice those interviews, a bunch of them, and stay positive, and anybody you can get a connection to that'll give you a chance and give you a job. And then when you get there and you land that first position, it's very important that you become the best employee that company has ever had.

That they are so proud 6 months from the time they hire you that they gave you a shot because you're early, you leave late, you work hard while you're there, you're accident-free and careful,

you're kind to the people around you, you don't stir up crap, you get the work done and help everybody else get their work done. You're like a dream come true of an employee. That's

your job.

It's not just to do the job. You got to do the job plus everything else so that everybody's happy they gave Chris a shot at his new life.

And you know what will happen then?

What? 5 years from now, you'll own the forklift company.

Mhm. So, a friend of mine owns a forklift company right now. He doesn't have any branches where you are, but they're in seven cities, hundreds of millions of dollars. His father bought the forklift company, but he started as the janitor.

And worked his way from janitor to driving, to management, bought the forklift company.

His dad passed away a few years ago.

Buddy of mine runs the whole thing with his brothers. And and that's your that's your future.

That's your grandkids we're talking about.

But you it starts right now with Chris changing his life. That's where he That's where this can go. And it can start with something as simple as you're the best employee they've ever had. And by the way, start practicing that at the car wash today.

Those skills will transfer right over.

Everybody that's around you that's negative, stay away from them.

Everybody that's around you that's positive, you're going to become who you hang around with. When they're smiling and they're happy and they're grateful for the job, I'm grateful I got a towel in my hand and I'm not in the jail.

And I get to clean this windshield right now. And I am the happiest human being that's free on the planet right now. And

you know, you just got to just attitude of gratitude, who are you hanging out with, who you acting like, and then I want you to start reading books like a crazy man and applying yourself. I think you're going to do really well. I'm I'm excited for you. I think you're going to have a great new future. And part of the reason I think that is a guy like you that calls a show like this, you got a real shot, man.

The guys like you that don't call a show like this, they're going to be they're going to be back in jail.

They're going to have other problems. But when you reach out and you say, "How can I change my life? What can I do?" That's the guy that that's the guy that will goes and wins. You're the guy that they write books about later.

That's that's what you can be. So, you hang on. >> entry screens are some of the most inspiring from those that have been incarcerated and they come out, man.

They'll get you some leaky eyes.

>> Absolutely. Absolutely. Hang on, we're going to give you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Finding the Work You're Wired to Do. It has an assessment in it.

It's our gift to you. I want you to take the assessment. I want you to read the book. Remember, you become who you hang around with and what you read. So, choose

who you hang around with and what you read cuz 10 years later you're going to look just like them, buddy.

That's how it works.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Dave is with us in Raleigh, North Carolina.

Hi Dave, how are you?

Yeah, I'm I'm doing well. Thanks thanks for taking the call. >> Sure. Um my my question

um is a financial question and and I guess a spiritual question. Okay. Um I was raised to respect both my parents. When my parents got divorced when I was nine, my dad never ever let me speak ill of my mother. Um he passed away in June. She's still alive and she's going through struggles right now and since December, we've come out of pocket almost $13,000 to pay for things for her and it's starting to to put a dent in our savings

and our planning. And I'm wondering where that line between respecting your parents and putting yourself in in jeopardy, where it ends. Mhm.

Well, you're a good man. You take after your dad. So, what has your mom gotten herself into this $13,000? What's the deal? Well, um she went into the hospital in um December with a with an illness.

She got out. She retired from her job

52. And instead of taking the life life cycle pension from her company, she took a cash lump sum option and she spent all of that in about 6 years.

How old is she now?

Uh she she's 76. Okay.

So, she's been living off of social security and any any amount of money that that I've been able to provide her and And Medicare?

And yep, and that as well. And so, you the the $13,000 was what Medicare didn't cover on the hospital stay?

So, $13,000, we're trying to move her up to the Raleigh area where we're at from Florida. Um so, we we tallied up how much it cost for the U-Haul. She's in the hospital again down in Florida. So, we tallied up like U-Hauls, flights, uh doctor visits that that weren't covered.

So, yeah, it's it's it's starting to become kind of a uh >> Okay, so she's currently in the hospital. And so, the $13,000 not happened yet, but that's what you think it's going to take to move her and clear up the mess. Although, it's happened already.

Oh, but and then so, there's more to come if you move her. >> Yes, correct.

Okay. Is her is does she own a home there? No no, sir. She's been renting uh since she moved to Florida. What's her social security every month?

Her income? >> Uh around 2,100.

Okay.

All right. Well, um so, let me pan back just a second and then we'll come in and actually work on the mechanics of how you can actually help her, okay? But let's pan back from the thing of honor your father and mother, the Bible says.

Um that does not mean that we honor dad

doing cocaine.

Okay? It means that we honor the position of father, not the misbehavior

of the individual who holds the position. It's the same as when we pray for our leaders, we don't necessarily have to like them personally or their politics, but we're still supposed to pray for our leaders.

Pray for the president. Right?

>> Mhm. And so I disagreed with almost nothing Joe Biden said, but I believe in praying for the president. So I prayed for Joe Biden, okay? You follow me? And that you could go go wherever you want to go with that. The same thing's true here. So we want to be honoring of the

position of mother, but that does not mean we participate in dysfunction or allow it or enable it or something along

those lines. So, having said that, now how does that play out in your situation? I think you're already on to it. What do you guys make a year?

Um we're about uh $250,000 a year.

>> And how much money do you guys have saved in your nest egg?

Uh close to 2.2 million.

>> Okay, so you don't have a financial problem due to mom. You have an aggravation.

And it's an aggravation as well as um you know, a lot of our our short-term savings where you know, you build up uh You have $2 million, shut up. >> The next paycheck will refill that, no problem.

>> is not a problem, okay? We'll figure this out. All right, so but having said that, so you're really not going to go hungry because of this, but we've got to put something reasonable. So I would move mom up there, write a check. Honestly, if I got $2 million, there ain't no U-Haul involved.

I'm paying somebody else to do the move.

But you do whatever you want to do. I'm not I'm not taking my pickup down there.

But um you do whatever you want to do.

But that's that's me. So, anyway, I'm going to get her up there, get the hospital bills cleaned up, and then say, "Okay, Mom, you are dependent on us

to be able to exist. So, that means I am now managing your budget."

So, your $2,000 that comes in, we're going to put you on a budget to live on that. We're going to find you a one-bedroom apartment that you live in near us, so you can come over and see us on Sundays and after church and we can have dinner and whatever, and you're going to be in a nice little apartment that you can afford on $2,000 a month.

You I'm we're going to manage your medical events with Medicare, and Mom

and I my wife and I we're going to help you a little bit here and there as we need be, but this is not an open checkbook. We're not in Congress, and we're actually going to manage this thing, and you're going to live on what you have to live on because you spent all your money.

And and then I'm going to help when I have to, but I'm not going to help because you misbehave. So, Mom, I'm going to help you with this budget, and you're going to have this much for food, and you're going to have this much for lights and water, and we're going to pay your rent, and you're going to have Is she still driving?

Yeah, she's she's capable of driving.

Does she have a car?

Yes, she does. Okay, so we're going to keep the car up. We're going to keep insurance on it. You got to put gas in the car, Mom, and so you're going to live on that, which means you're going to have a fairly meager life, but that's what you signed up for in this process.

But I will make sure that you're not homeless or hungry.

Yeah, and that's the That's the road we've been on. We We got the apartment uh 2 weeks ago. We moved her stuff up from Florida last week, and um unfortunately, during the packing process, she had to go into the hospital unexpectedly. So, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, but that's that's um you know, and so you've got X number of years to manage the relationship and the mathematics.

And that's the way you will honor your mother. But that does not but is not honoring to her for you to open up a checkbook and she gets $10,000 a month to blow.

Yeah, definitely I definitely agree with that. Yeah, nor were you planning to.

Yeah, you were that wasn't why you called. But yeah, I'm just I My point is this philosophical thing I hear sometimes people say in the name of honoring my father and mother, I'm going to justify my enabling. You're not doing that. You're not wanting to do that, but I'm for everyone else listening, I'm trying to put that out there. That is not what the Bible means on that.

And so nor what's your dad meant that

you were to not speak ill of her. And

you have done a good job of not speaking ill of her. You gave facts of things where she's messed up, but there was no drama in your voice.

You just got this thing I'm carrying and I I want to be a good person and be kind

to my own mother. And that's good. You know, you should. That makes you a good guy.

Yeah, you're there to make sure she's not homeless, prevent the catastrophe. No. But you're not there to also make her super comfortable and have a lavish lifestyle. And so there's a balance there and I think that boundary is is hard to set when it's your own mother and father.

>> No, but I just think you say this is what it is. And she doesn't have a lot of choices. You don't get a vote at this point. It's the life you set up for yourself.

Once you start taking my money, it's my vote. And so I'm Now I'm going to help you.

Now I'm going to love you well and you may or may not like the process, but I'm going to love you. You're going to protect her from herself at this point.

That's the way you honor her.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Bill is in Rochester, New York. Hey Bill, how are you?

Good sir, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Oh, I wish I could say that. Um I retired uh beginning part of the year, so that January 1st from my job. Uh I've been doing part-time real estate uh for a couple of years. Now I'm doing it full-time, but it looks like I'm going to be making over the threshold for Social Security Administration to start taking back some of my income um through the real estate. Oh, you mean tax You mean not taking back the income.

You mean taxing it.

Correct. Yeah, where they tax it 50 cents on the dollar. Yeah. And I'm just wondering that by the the money has it started coming in from Social Security yet, do I

cancel the claim and just stay with the real estate or do I keep that Social Security as like a security blanket, but then I'm going to end up paying a lot of money if I do as well as it looks like I'm going to.

So, you've already claimed it?

Um the claim is in. Okay. But it it

hasn't started yet. They lost my paperwork. Oh. So.

Well, I mean, if there's a way you can back out of this because of that, that's the way to do it cuz once you start, there's no stopping.

So, how much how much you making in the real estate business, Bill?

Um right now this this year I haven't made a lot. I'm like 700 bucks for one deal, but I've got one that's close under contract. My listing goes live this week, and and um I've got two other ones that I I mean, >> Chris, how much do you think you're going to make in the real estate business?

Well, I I'm at least $30,000.

Okay. I don't think $30,000 is going to break the means test, does it?

$24,000 is what they're saying.

>> Okay. Hm. And the taxes that they tax half of it,

but they don't the tax is not 50% half

of your Social Security becomes taxable.

Which is 30% of half or 20% of half.

Okay. So, what is how much is your Social Security supposed to be?

$2,800 a month. >> Okay. So, $1,400 becomes taxable

if you break the means. Is that right, George? Is that how it works? >> Yeah, but I'm looking at the the table here. It is up to 50% if you're making

25 to 34K as a single person.

>> 50% is taxable, not taxation.

>> Yes. >> Exactly. Right. The benefits of that. >> If you're in a 20% tax bracket, that means 20% of $1,400.

So, $280.

A month. So, $3,000 a year

is the tax bill.

Whoopee.

And then I can make You can make it whatever you want to make.

Oh, I thought it was taxed on how much I

made over the 24.

No, you you said 50% of the social security becomes taxable, right, George?

Yes. So, under 25K 0%. It's that 25K up

to 34K is what's taxable up to 50% of

the benefits.

The 50% of the benefits become taxable.

So, if you go make $100,000 or you go make $70,000 in a real estate business, $1,400 a month becomes taxable, right, George?

>> Yeah. Okay. And and if your tax bracket is 20%, it's your tax amount on $1,400

would be 20% of 1,400, which would be 280 bucks.

Which is about $3,000 a year.

So, I don't think it's going to be as awful as you think it is if you continue this. >> That's my point. Go make a bunch of money. And it's I'm also seeing you can withdraw the application within the the first 12 months.

So, I think you're still good. If you don't need it right now and you want to work, then don't take it. Yeah, if you're going to go make a bunch of money and you don't want to deal with this, that's fine. But, my point is it's mathematically not that big a deal.

That's not That's That's not >> You're stepping over dollars to pick up a nickel, so it's not worth it. Don't don't don't don't let that be a demotivator to you. So, if you want to pull it, George is saying that he he's reading up on it right now while we're on the air. I don't know this, but he's saying we you can pull the app up in the first 12 months.

So, pull it if you want to pull it, but otherwise, go to your tax person and sit down and make sure the calculation I'm doing in my head on the air is correct cuz I could be screwing this up. It's possible.

Um and you can figure out exactly what it's going to be. If it's what I think it is though, it's about $3,000 a year if I understood the deal right if you go over $40,000, say. If you go make 40 or

50 grand, it's going to create an extra

uh taxation on half of your Social Security becomes taxable and if you're in a 20% tax bracket, then that would be 20% of $1,400 cuz 50% of 20 2,800 is

1,400. So, that's how I'm doing the math, but I could if I'm in case I'm messing it up, double-check it with a professional and then you can decide what you want to do, whether you want to pull the app or not. I'm pretty sure that's an accurate thing that you can pull the app up to 12 months though. >> Yeah, and it sounds like it didn't happen even gone through yet.

>> Yeah. So, you're fine. I'm not super concerned about that. >> it back and not fool with it if I were you cuz this real estate stuff could take off. No, it sound like you got some Sound like you're fooling around and making some money. That's awesome. That's fun. That's cool. I like that.

Andrew is in Indianapolis. Hi Andrew, how are you?

Hey Dave, I'm doing well. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

What's good? Uh I have a question about some student loan payoff strategies. Uh I currently have about $170,000 in student loan debt. Good lord, are you a doctor or a lawyer?

Uh I'm a software engineer, but I had a stay on my loan due to a co-signer bankruptcy and interest racked up on the uh private loan. Uh it's a private loan. >> Very unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah, so about 135 is a private loan and then

around 30 or so is is federal. What are you making now?

170. Oh, good.

Okay. So, when we get through with the call, I'm going to put you on hold and Christian, our phone screener, is going to pick up and put you in touch with the Y refi people that we advertise for.

And they specialize in student loan private student loans that are in default, recasting them, resetting them, and getting a lower interest rate. They also have a possibility, check on this, of a lump sum discount on your loan.

They know how to buy your loan out at a discount and let you buy it out at a discount.

And so, if it's 130, let's say you could buy it for 80, I want you to scrape together the 80 and take it out, if that could happen. So, when we get done with the call, that's your going to be your other assignment. But, let's go ahead and go into what your your question was.

Great. Yeah, so I actually already refinanced with your one provider at a 9.85% interest rate, and I just got it down to 5.81.

Okay. And my question is, I'm going to pay off the federal student loans in about 8 months. Um Good. I'm I'm you know, paying off very aggressively, about $5,000 a month. Good. Uh

and after I pay off my federal loans,

um I was wondering if you think I should aggressively pay off the private loans at $5,000 a month, or if you think it would be a good idea to pay off the or pay the minimum every month and invest about 4,000 or so into the S&P 500 or any investment, uh because I understand and then after 3 years, take out the, you know, sum for the remaining private student loans and pay it off, and then have potential upside from market gains. I understand that option one, just aggressively paying off the student loans, guarantees an equal rate to my or equal return to my interest rate.

Yeah. The math you left out of your equation is risk.

Right. And peace of mind. And so, here's the data point that I'll tell you. We studied and interviewed, researched 10,167 millionaires. Nine out of 10 of them became millionaires starting from nothing. The number of them that said, "I became millionaire became a millionaire by not paying off my debt

and instead investing to more quickly pay off my debt." The number of millionaires that actually did that plan was zero.

Out of 10,000.

So, no one that has money tries crap like you're trying to pull.

Instead, they just pay it off

and are free and then take a wonderful $170,000 income and get in attack mode and go build some

wealth cuz I got rid of all my stupid debt.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show, and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living in normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

Roman and Jennifer on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions.

Hey guys, how are you?

Better than we deserve. >> I love it. Where do y'all live?

Jackson, Tennessee. >> Jackson, Tennessee. Just up the road.

Well, welcome. Good to have you guys.

Thanks, sir. >> And how much debt have you two paid off?

Uh $154,000.

>> I love it. And how long did that take you? 23 months. Good for you. Wow, that's quick. And your range of income during that 2 years? Uh we went from 148,000 to about 154. Good. What do

y'all do for a living?

I'm a teacher.

And uh I'm a district manager for a local uh convenience and uh QSR destination.

Excellent. Very cool. What kind of debt was the 154,000? Um boy, it was uh one car, uh one credit card, and 11 student loans. Wow. Did you sell anything to do this? Cuz that 75,000 a year Everything.

Did you sell the car? People thought we were going crazy. Like they literally thought >> We did not sell the car. Uh we had enough equity and we decided and she loves the car, so we decided to keep it.

Uh but we went through and realized we had a whole bunch of stuff in the house that we didn't need. Okay. >> just decided >> of the big-ticket items you guys sold?

Uh a couch, a chair, just a bunch of furniture items. We had multiple living room sets and had one and a half living rooms. We just figured it, we're we were had accumulated a lot over the years never really gotten rid of anything. So, we thought it was time to turn it around.

>> there wasn't any 15 or 20 thousand dollar items then. No, no. >> Okay. So, most of this was cash flow through your income.

We picked up, both of us picked up second jobs. He was DoorDashing and I worked at a T restaurant. >> Wow, look at you. And we cut our expenses to the bone.

>> Yeah. Cuz I mean, you made 150, but you paid off 75,000 a year and paid taxes.

Mhm. Gee.

Uh and and ate and ate food and stuff.

>> On occasion. We ate at home, Dave.

>> Yeah, I'm telling you. >> the restaurants. >> you. People thought we were weird.

>> Uh because you were. Because normal's broke. You don't want to be normal, you want to be weird. All right, guys. So, how did all How long y'all been married?

We'll be 20 years in May. Okay, but 2 years ago something happened. What happened to cut this loose?

Well, uh it was a about 2 weeks before our 40th birthday. She's 4 days older than me. Uh You married an older woman, you did. >> marry an older woman, that's right. >> Why is that? Yeah. Uh I was We were doing our taxes for 23 and we realized that we had the best year we'd ever had.

And we had nothing. Nothing left, it was all gone. And so, I just thought, you know, I got a I got a very good year-end bonus and decided, you know, what? This credit card is gone. We're going to get rid of it. And so, uh paid off the credit card and it took us a couple months to really kind of get on track uh with the entirety of the the

lifestyle uh after we paid that credit card off.

>> How'd you plug into the Ramsey stuff?

Well, we uh through my company actually offers a SmartDollar program. Oh, your company offers our stuff? Oh, wow. Okay, cool.

>> Uh and What company? Uh I I work for Dodge's Chicken. Oh, yeah. Okay. And so, we uh we have the SmartDollar program and I'm a I'm a very big advocate of it.

Uh we have a monthly meetings at all my stores and uh every time we we have one of those meetings, I've we play a little Dave video and we watch some of the stuff and try and get them engaged in the program. Uh so that hopefully we can help not just do this ourselves but share it with other the other folks that we're working with >> Yeah, way to go, man. >> the poster child. You've actually lived it.

I love it. Your story's the most inspirational part to them. They're going, "This guy did this plan? I'll do that video.

Wow. But it's been a it's been a great blessing. God has been with us the whole way.

It's been >> So that showed up at your company about the time you guys made this decision? A little bit before but I didn't really I didn't really dive in until about that window when I realized >> Okay, so when when you looked at the tax return you then you paid off the credit card you go, "Okay, I'm going to do that Ramsey stuff at work." Yes. Okay. Yes.

Cuz for those of you don't know, Smart Dollar is our program that companies buy as an HR benefit for their whole teams.

So like U-Haul, Costco, all of their employees have been through our Smart Dollar program or had it available to them anyway to go through and learn how to get out of debt, be on a budget, all the stuff we teach. So wow, man, WAY TO GO. PROUD OF YOU. THANK YOU. Very cool.

How's it feel to be free?

Weird. Like it's it's I had to change my

perspective because um How long ago were you 100% You're debt-free everything but the house now? >> Yeah, correct. How long ago were you debt-free everything but the house? Do you remember? Uh December 20th. No, I'm talking about before.

Like when you first got married. >> We weren't. No. >> So you've never been This is the first time in your adult lives. Your whole lives. >> Yeah, we we were the ones who kept the kept those student loans around like a pet. We thought it was something we're going to hang on to for the rest of our lives. Just make the minimums and let it ride. >> Yeah, unfortunately. Oh yeah, so you come out of school, get married with student loans. So you've been the whole time with debt up until 23 months ago

you turned it on and now you're debt-free. Yes, sir. Wow, that's so cool. >> guys have a goal of we're going to do this in under 2 years or was this just you guys went so hard you didn't realize it? >> Um we watched the video and anytime that I would make a bad decision he would remind me he would say cheetah and I would have to stop. >> We had to watch out for the cheetahs. had >> watch out for the cheetah. That was the keyword was cheetah.

>> That's burned in your memory after watching those videos. Yes. Cheetah!

Cheetah. And I would I'd know what he was talking about and I'd have to refocus. I love it.

>> We uh we took FPU in the fall of '24. Uh just want to shout out our director as uh Bonnie Droter. She was awesome. She really helped us out, so. >> Very cool. Very cool. All right, now that you've done it, you sacrificed really deep.

I mean, you went you went hard in the paint, man. I mean, this is hard. Uh was it worth it? Absolutely.

We were just discussing on the way up here. Um we almost don't even know how to make decisions based on what we want to do.

It's always been what we had to do. >> Yeah. Uh and so it's going to be a big paradigm shift for both of us figuring out how we do how we live our lives at our direction at this point cuz it's always been just doing what we can to get by.

And so it it's changed a lot for us.

Yeah. Yeah, that's that's interesting.

What I want to do is What do you have to do? What do you have to do? Yeah. That's incredible. >> So, what will you do? What's the next What's the first big thing to celebrate?

Well, Dave, first thing I'm going to do is I'm going to go play some golf. I like it. >> Because I gave up golf right after I picked it up and because it was too exp- I realized that was the first thing I'd get cut. Yeah.

Uh and so we cut the golf. So, I'm going to pick up golf again. This is our fourth time here being in Ramsey Solutions and every time we've seen him doing these and it just really inspired us to hey, let's just It's not It's all about the little things in life. You know, and so we don't have to do a big big thing to celebrate.

We're we're free. We're here together and this is the start of something new for us now. >> Amen.

So, Jennifer, who was the spender? Who's the saver? I'm the spender. Okay, me too.

>> Yes, I'm the spender. He's definitely He's He's my nerd and I love him. >> So, now that now that you're free, can you relax a little bit and enjoy it a little bit? >> I can't. I'm going to go get me some Cozy Earth sheets now. >> Yes.

Rachel and I talk about those. They're the best sheets I've ever owned. I'm excited. I That's That's all I've talked about. >> Yeah. Are they still Are they still advertising with us? Oh, yeah. They're fantastic.

Actually, we're going to get you a set.

Yeah.

Will spear you George will take care of that. >> I'll make sure it happens for you. If they're an advertiser, I can get you a set of sheets. I promise. Dave can just make it happen like that. Just like that. Not for the kids though. The parents >> ought to I think you I think you ought to celebrate, man. I mean, this is good.

I love that. This is great. If they get a shower out, they ought to at least give you some sheets.

32 million people just heard this. So, Yeah, all right. That's good. That's fantastic. >> Way to go, you guys. I'm proud of you. And you brought the kiddos. And what are their names and ages? Have them come up and join you. All right. We got Caitlyn, who's uh 19.

Uh Kayla, who's 17 18, sorry. And then

Carrie, who's 10. Okay. And they survived this 2-year 2 years of sacrifice. >> They did. We caught their senior years with it. So, it was tougher for them than it should have been. But, it's But, Caitlyn has cash flowed her first year of uh college. So, she did not sign a loan her first year. So, >> Love it. Where she in school? Uh Freed-Hardeman University. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, very good. Okay, perfect. Well, congratulations, you guys. We're proud of you. You're heroes.

Look at this family. This is a family that's free right here, man. They are free. They are free. They busted it. I

mean, you busted it. $154,000

paid off in 23 months making 148 to 154.

They didn't do nothing. Except get out of debt, man. That's impressive. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

>> ready? 3 2 1 WE'RE DEBT FREE!

YEAH!

INCREDIBLE. THAT'S HOW IT'S DONE, ladies and gentlemen. >> two Every Dollar subscriptions and some sheets from Cozy Earth. Man, they won big today. >> Yeah. Well, you got to make that all that connection happens and get this done now. >> Who needs game shows? Just come to your debt-free screen. That's how you win big around here. >> You get games and prizes.

Hey, George Kamel here. So, you're thinking about buying or selling your home. It's exciting, but there's a lot to think about, and all those decisions can feel overwhelming. Well, here's the good news.

You don't have to tackle the process alone. Ramsey's real estate home base is the place to find all of your free tools and resources for help to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. You'll find calculators, start-to-finish guides, a podcast, and even an in-depth video course hosted by yours truly. What's not to love?

That's ramseysolutions.com/realestate.

Our scripture of the day, 1 Peter 5:10, "And the God of grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you

have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm, and steadfast." Theodore Roosevelt said, "Courage is not having the strength to go on. It is going on when you don't have the strength. William is with us in Birmingham, Alabama. Hi, William. How are you?

I'm excellent, Dave. Yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I've got two kids in college.

I'm going to get them out both debt free. But, one of them's going to go on to med school, and I don't have that money set aside.

Okay. >> Looking for some directions and some advice. Okay. What's the conversation

been like with them?

Um Did you promise them, "Hey, I'll cover your your undergrad, but the rest is up to you?" No, there was never that that promise one way or another. I mean, we've we've talked about it, and they are willing to take on the the debt, and of course, I don't want to see them take on the debt, nor do I want to take on the debt. I wouldn't, for sure.

Um if they want to do it, it's of course up to them. They're grown at that point.

Um

Well, I mean, we have talked to uh more than 20 people over the certain last several years that have gone to med school without any student loan debt, and they've used several different methodologies.

Um the first thing is to get over the

idea that you have to go to the one

school that accepted you that happens to be the most expensive school in the freaking world.

Uh because when you go in to sit down with your MD, no one asks where you went

to school. You ask, "Can you fix my broken body?"

That's what you ask. Can you help me heal? That's what you ask. You don't ask I I honestly have One of my good personal friends is my personal physician. I have no idea where he went to med school and I've known him 15 years.

I don't care. >> he's going locally. Yeah, I don't care.

So, the point is I want him to go where the least expensive possible med school.

That's thing one.

Um thing two is look into what are called MD PhD programs.

And um not all med schools have them.

Some of them that have them are famous like Duke, very difficult to get in.

But if you can get into the PhD program

you become a uh a an employee of the university and

then med school is free.

But you're working as a you're working as a TA and working on a PhD as well

while you're working on the actual MD.

And so it's a it's a complicated process

but the bottom line of it is you get med school free cuz you're an employee.

And and that's how the program that's how the programs work. Those types and and it falls generally under fellowship programs, those types of things. So, I want to learn about that. I want to look at that. Um and an obvious one that is not necessarily popular but that is obvious and everyone knows about but not everyone elects is the military will pay for it if you join the military.

Got you. And um you know, but you're going to give up a few years of service to the military in return for >> in return after graduation and after you're an MD, you're going to serve as you know, in the uh in the medical field within the military. You're going to serve your country that way for a while because your country paid for your education. Uh but you can go free.

Uh that's the ways that I know of.

George, do you have any other methodologies that you can go and not take on the debt? Similarly to the military, there's one called the National Health Service Corps and it's similar where you serve in a underserved community after graduation and they'll cover your tuition. They reimburse but that's a reimbursement isn't it? They'll provide scholarships and there's loan repayment options but the scholarship route would be the one to go obviously to go debt-free.

So the key is doing a ton of research, cheaping the picking the cheapest school possible and then doing your best to cash flow it and they work part-time if they can and if you want to pitch in to help cover that you can but you're under no obligation.

Um but this is going to you're going to help them come up with a plan. >> Yeah if you if you've got cash that you can throw at to help them get through and you want to do that there's nothing wrong with that. Um or if you can find room in your budget or you know room in your asset base or something to help them and you want to do that that's okay. There's nothing illegal or or immoral about that or even against the Ramsey plan.

I don't mind a parent paying for grad school if that's what they want to do and you have the money.

No parent plus loans, no co-signers.

>> time I would do that. And here's the problem. We automatically assume I'm going to go $250,000 in debt to go to get an MD that I'm going to become an MD and I'm going to make a lot of money in as an MD.

Those are negative assumptions cuz everybody goes to med school doesn't graduate. Same with law school. We see a lot of that. >> Some people don't make it out and you know what does graduate? Whether you graduate or not those loans are still there.

No contingency of well if and when you graduate then you can pay us back otherwise. Yeah there's nothing like that and so you you know try flunking out of med school and having $150,000 worth of debt. That'll piss you off.

That's a bad plan. Oh and or come out

and you know the type of medicine you want to serve in is you know been taken over and socialized and it's very difficult to get a job making over 80 grand and you could have made that driving a you know as a diesel mechanic and you wouldn't have been $250,000 in debt. Um so you know, you don't want to go there. That's not the direct That's not how we want to build this out. So we don't build this out on oh, I'm automatically going to make $400,000 a year for the rest of my life.

No, you're not.

All right, Carrie is with us in Spokane, Washington. Hi Carrie, how are you?

Hi, good. Thanks for having me. Sure, how can we help?

Um so I we accepted placement of a

2-week-old low foster baby very unexpected as we had lost our license a

year prior, but she um was directly related to our adopted kiddo. Um so I was feeling really discouraged and cuz our plan came to a

halt then. Um and now we're kind of this was back in November. Now we're kind of picking up the pieces and just wondering for any advice on how to move on. >> come to a halt with a 2-week-old?

Well, we she cuz I needed a leave of absence from

work. Um and I still was making an income cuz we own our own business. So I'm still working doing some work from home. Um so

Okay, so you gave up your job to take in a foster child.

I didn't I still could have my job.

But I'm having a hard So we own our own business, so I can go back to I have gone back to work already. Just only three to four days a week.

And it's just really hard finding that family balance. Okay, does the state of Washington pay anything for foster care?

That they do, yeah, which is helpful.

How much? >> It's just less.

Um it is for her cuz of her needs it's like around $1,400.

Okay. >> But you were making a lot more than that. Yeah, but I am still making some. I work from home and I go in a few days a week.

It's just with her needs and the lack of child care. The balance is just >> is the timeline on this foster care?

Uh I probably won't know. I mean it's going to be a while, at least 18 months of her age. And then at actually at 18 months if she's still with us, she can go into daycare full time. So that will be helpful and it's cuz they don't take spots. There's not very many spots for infants in my area.

So. Um but I mean a 2-week-old So it sounds like the parent is gone.

Yeah. Yeah. So that the likelihood we have her will be a few more years if and then after you know, we just don't know what will happen. But we felt really obligated to take her in like we wanted to and it's so special, but um

I just feel like our our plight we were doing so good. We actually called >> there's a direct there's a direct cost to Yeah. this call on your life and you

you chose the you chose the call, you answered the call and with that goes the cost.

Yeah. I just feel so guilty going in more than I probably could go in one more day a week.

So this is not a financial question. You just want to be there more?

No, it's a financial question. She cut her pay substantially to take on a foster care. That's $1,400 a month.

Yeah, there's a problem.

But you just have to accept that that's what I chose to do.

You can't say it's so special and not take the math with it. The math goes with the special.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 281. Your Financial Stupidity Has To Stop Today! | April 2, 2026


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIRywRcWK2w) |
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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:38:22 |

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>> [music] >> Normal is broken and common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey

Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey [music] Show.

Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and co-host of the SmartMoney Happy Hour, my daughter, is my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225.

Shelby is in Springfield, Missouri. Hi, Shelby. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you guys?

>> Better than we deserve. What's up?

Well, thanks for taking my call. I'm calling today um with a bit of a moral and financial question.

And I'm calling to see what is the best way for me to help my husband pay off his credit card debt that we have discovered recently.

We have discovered. What does that mean?

Well, I discovered >> Yeah, I found um unfortunately

uh I found some screenshots of sports betting and he ended up having to come forward with three credit cards um that added up to about $17,000.

Mhm. And unfortunately, this isn't the first time that I The last time I didn't

find it, he came to me and told me about it, but this isn't the first time we struggled with credit card debt.

Was that other time regarding sports betting? No, it was not. The last time um his company had used his credit card for on a trip and they paid him back and he just never Yeah. paid the card off. He just spent the money and How old are you guys? um so We're 25. How long you been married?

Uh going on 4 years. Okay. All right.

I'm so sorry, Shelby. >> his uh What's his reaction to

having lost $17,000 of the family money sports betting?

Well, he was hiding it from me for a really long time. Um, and then when I found it,

I grabbed our two babies and I got in

the car and I left and I told him to fix it. And uh we came back pretty quickly, but

um he has gotten He's doing great, honestly. He's got two jobs. He's working a full-time job during the day and then a job in the evening, a part-time job in the evenings.

Um, and he's been working his butt off.

I found it about 6 months ago, so he's been working his butt off for 6 months and he's got three cards down to one. Um, and there's still quite a bit left on it. But >> Okay, so it was originally 17,000 or now it's 17,000? It was originally 17, now

he's got it down to um under 15, just under 15. Okay. But in 6 months he's only paid 2,000 of it?

Yeah, uh because of uh

the issues that we were having, we were really behind on um bills and payments, and so we spent a couple months catching up. Okay. And then um we had just a

couple things Our Our hot water heater went out. Um, our We got in a car accident. Um, we had to go get a new car. There's just a few things he's those first couple months that Got you.

um took up the extra income that he was starting to bring in. Shelby, when you just mentioned that you guys were behind on bills, were you aware of that or did that come out with this secret credit

card and the gambling and everything?

Yes. Yeah, I I was aware of how short

So, he was actually unemployed at the time. I was the only one bringing in income. I work from home, and usually I work from home and I keep our kiddos, but he was um he was in between jobs and

>> Uh so I knew we were short. I just didn't know how short we were and I didn't have access to the bank account. I used to, but I just hadn't logged in in so long that What does he What does he do for a living? >> my account. Well, right now um he works for at a school and then in the evenings he works a retail job.

At a school?

Yes. >> Doing what? So he he does uh um he's a teacher's aide at a school.

Okay. All right.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> So part of the reason I'm calling is because I was approached by um my in-laws and they were kind of telling me that it would be better for us all around if I just took out a loan and we

paid off the card because the interest on this card is over 30% Mhm. and they

said if I take out a loan and cover it

and then we just pay back the bank with a lower interest rate, it would help us all around.

>> I make 50 a year. And what does he make?

Um now uh within the last few months he brings home um with the two jobs combined about $4,000 a month. >> Okay. So you're got about $90,000 coming in. And you said you bought a car in the middle of this? Did you take out a car payment in the middle of this?

I actually have just recently found you guys and I've just realized how dumb that was. Okay. Um but we

um Now you already knew how dumb it was.

You were behind and you had a 30% credit card and then you went and took out a car payment. You already knew that.

True. So how much do you owe on this stupid car?

Uh it's we've got 30,000. Okay.

All right. Um Okay. So there's a lot of things that need to happen here for you guys to get healthy financially and relationally and career-wise. There's a whole lot of negative things going on in this house.

And the 30% loan interest on the credit card is not your problem. It's the symptom of all these other problems.

So, what would I do if I woke up in your shoes? Well, I'd do a lot of different things. Um the first thing is is the two of you are going to start an every dollar budget tonight on our app and we're going to give you a free trial on it.

So, you guys can put it all together and you're going to lay out exactly where every dollar of your income is going to go this month before it comes to you.

You're going to have a plan for every dollar. You're not going out to eat.

You're not going to see the inside of a restaurant unless you're working there as an extra job. You're not going on vacation. You're not doing anything. You are broke and screwed with your money

and you both have got to lean into this and clean it up as fast as possible.

Okay? That's [clears throat] thing one.

Thing two is with your marriage counselor, you need to get commitments from him that he's never on threat of ending your marriage going to do any betting sports betting ever again.

And he's never going to hide any debt from you ever again.

And we're going to be working together, so it's going to be very difficult for him to hide anything because we both are going to see every single thing that's going on. >> Yeah, and pulling credit reports every year. You know what I mean? And I would almost have him I mean, I don't know how how engaged this is cuz that I mean, the the this the sports betting world, it can be such a downward slope so fast.

But but what I would be wondering Shelby too, maybe you guys have talked about this. I just want to make sure that he's healthy in that way that that there's not some level of >> addiction addiction there and that and that itch he was trying to scratch, that excitement that he was doing sports betting. Like what is that about, right?

So, like that doing that work in the marriage counseling office is Could be that you were behind on your bills and he was trying to make some money fast to get the bills paid up. >> true, too. >> He could have been desperate stupidity.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So I I want I want a solid foundation laid, the things he's never going to do again, and the two of you see every single dollar every month for the rest of your lives.

>> Mhm. Neither one of you are in control, both of you are in control.

Okay? Lastly, you need to sell the car.

That was suicide.

You put a bullet in the gun and put it to your head. You need to sell this car immediately.

Stupid on steroids. You cannot afford a

$30,000 car. You have got to get rid of

this now. Oh my gosh, girl.

Uh that makes his sports betting look smart when you put it up beside this car. Oh my gosh. Neither one of them are smart. Oh, I hate them, too. And who who's who's the number one victim of sports betting? 25-year-old males. >> Yes. You got this. 25-year-old males.

>> You got [music] this.

>> [music]

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Christina is in Nashville. Hi Christina, how are you?

Hi Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call today. Sure. How can we help?

Um going to do my best to get through this without crying. Um I am 46 years old and my husband and I

were married for 27 years and he passed away suddenly in a motor vehicle accident this past June. Oh my God.

I'm so sorry. >> So we have been Dave Ramsey fans for a very long time. I home-school and we're actually graduating our last child this May. Wow. And they've

all been through you know, Financial Peace University. Wow. Um so

the question that I have is I'm looking to probably having to go to work this summer now with the loss of his income and just I feel like with my age it's probably the most responsible thing to do. Um but I do have some life insurance we

received from his uh, employer who was a um

he was a Franklin firefighter. Mhm. And, um, then we also had a personal life insurance policy and he was never

super trusting of investing and so I I

don't really have a lot of experience with it, but I have a family friend who is a financial advisor and so he suggested that I, um, invest like a hundred thousand back in October just to start kind of learning on, but you know, a lot of people say not to make any big decisions for that first year and so I'm coming up on that year mark and needing to start making some decisions about, you know, going back to work and, um, well, it's not really going back to work, it's really going to work full-time for the first time.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm just a little need some reassurance that, you know, the markets right now are a little scary, but >> [laughter] >> Markets are always a little scary. Um, how much is the total life insurance proceeds? >> Um, the total was five hundred thousand.

>> Mhm. Um, and right now I have a hundred thousand invested in mutual funds.

>> Mhm. Um, and then I have the other four

hundred thousand in a high interest, um,

account. >> Mhm. Um, Do you have any debt?

>> Um, we have no debt except for the car

that he actually bought me just before he died. Mhm. Um, and I owe on the car. >> 20,000. Okay. And um, you don't owe anything on your home?

No, we we actually paid our house off in 2015. Um, he was in the the army and we did a lot of house flipping when he was military and were able to just keep, you know, getting more and more, um, sweat equity.

I did the work all ourselves, so. Wow.

Huh. [sighs] Well, it it's, um,

I mean, it takes a year to be even breathe well and you're just now getting where you can take a deep breath.

Um and so you've been very wise and very careful. Good for you.

Um and um you know, you've [clears throat] walked with this last last child through the graduation, which is getting ready to come up here and a lot of milestones and a lot of tears. Um Yeah. So uh Yeah, I think your family friend gave you some good advice to dip your toe in the water and kind of get used to it.

Uh a little bit with a hundred. That's not a bad idea.

And um uh uh The second thing is there's two two things that come to mind immediately. One is pay off the car today.

Okay. Okay, you don't need to be carrying a car payment not when you've got that money. So you should take a little bit of that money out of that high yield and pay that car off today.

Okay, that's easy. >> Okay. You're not going [clears throat] to regret that and very few people would say that was dumb. Okay? So >> Yeah. Yeah, that payment has been like choking me every month. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, this is Exactly. Now, when you um

start your career, what's your plan there?

Um I'm hoping to get into um some sort

of a like high school counselor for homeschoolers um potentially.

Um I do have some background with um working from home as in medical transcription. So I could possibly even do just a medical office. Mhm.

Okay. With what you've investigated so far, do you think you can make enough to live on without touching this money?

Um I think so. I think um if I can get

something that were to pay about $20 an hour, I think um working full time I could do that. Um I do get a small pension um which is about $500.

>> Mhm. Um How have you been living during this year?

Um so we had some savings about 50,000

um is what I have in there right now.

And so um I get Social Security survivors for my son, um, and that will end in May. And that's where my biggest stressor is is that 1,800 is going to go away. And that's really been what's kind of been carrying me so that I don't have to really dip into Yeah. not, you know, our savings or Well, I would make plans to create an income large enough to at least live on as your first stage.

And then your second stage, create a career for this next phase of your life. Mhm.

For you.

And so, you know, what do you want to be when you grow up, you know? I mean, this is this is chapter two.

Uh, it isn't a chapter you wanted to write, but it is chapter two. And so, um, you know, let let's make, you know,

not just survival, um, let's go flourish. And uh, and you

know, uh, that'll be part of your healing and pro- process and everything.

>> Yeah, and the and the wild thing, Christina, is just like high-level math.

Kind of it's that that what is it, the rule of 72 that your money doubles every 7 years? Mhm. And so, you know, the 500,000 in 7 years will be a million if you don't touch it. And then in 14 years it'll be 2 million.

Right? So, if you could find something that you really could put your heart in, that you're passionate about, that you love, that you're good at, you have a good work environment, you're excited to go, right? And you do that for the next, you know, 10, 15 years, um, this money's

going to serve you really well at that point, right? >> know, you're going to get into 65 and have two or three million dollars if you watch what you're doing. Now, that assumes that the money is invested better than it is now. And that's what you're calling about. So, let's go let's go finally to that, okay? Now, when you're investing, um, it's, um,

I always think about the very first time I got behind the wheel of a car.

And my dad told me to push down on that to go and push down on that to stop.

Mhm. You know, and I didn't know what I was doing and I wasn't very good at it and um I threw gravel from the driveway up against the house and everything is spinning the tires, you know, everything. But but that didn't last long. That was a 5 minutes of that level of inexperience. And then within 10 minutes um we know we're learning the the little bit and then you know, by obviously by the time you're 16 you're driving the car on the road

and passing a driver's test and and you know, now I'm 65 and I don't have wrecks and so you know, I mean you know, so what what does that mean is the first time you do something it is

natural and wise to be fearful.

Mhm. That's normal.

But it doesn't mean it's bad to learn how to do it. The first time you rode a bicycle but then when you were teaching your children to ride a bicycle they were afraid but you weren't because you could hold the seat for a minute number one and then number two when you let them go you knew they weren't you know, you you knew you weren't they their life was not going to end. They were just going to fall over maybe, okay? Now they might act like with a drama but you know, but still.

emotionally experience more of the markets going up and the markets going down then you're going to get to used to riding a bicycle.

You know, and Mhm. So uh

I would have you learn as fast as you can learn and get comfortable by sitting with the financial advisor that you're using or getting a SmartVestor Pro that Ramsey ramseysolutions.com cuz they're going to have the heart of a teacher.

Whoever's helping you with your money must teach you.

Okay. You must learn and it's not complicated. That's the good news.

It's because in that knowledge is going to give you comfort.

And And high-level that he just put a hundred grand in mutual funds. That's good. >> Was that Was that your Was that you, Christina, saying that or Was that his advice? >> That was Yeah, that was his advice. I just And that's great. So, it's those types of accounts of diversification that you want, Christina. You always want to stay away from anything single stocks or something new like crypto or something like that where like you want to >> Okay. something that is very diverse.

So, index funds, you know, ETFs, good mutual funds, anything in that category

is is really going to be a safe bet overall. >> Just get you some good growth stock type mutual funds, but learn about the fund that you're putting the money in. Like has it been open since 1932 and in the last 27 years it's had two down years and 25 up years? That gives me a lot of comfort.

Oh, okay. That's a track record I can relax with.

>> [music]

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Go start EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play. Stephanie is in

Olympia, Washington. Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

Good. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up?

I am calling to ask your advice on if I should keep working my part-time job in

order to pay off our debt faster or if I should stick to my plan of quitting my job probably in the next month so that I can focus on being a stay-at-home mom and homeschooling our kids.

Was this the original plan? Is this what you were working towards? Are you already homeschooling?

I was [clears throat] homeschooling. This year we put our kids in because we moved at the end of August, so it was a bit too chaotic and um we stopped homeschooling, put them in school. I work remote, so I'm at home.

But yeah, the original plan has always been that >> Okay, I'm sorry. If you work remote and you're at home and it's part-time, how many hours do you work at home?

Probably 12-ish a week. And I'm on salary >> prevent you from homeschooling? It doesn't.

It doesn't. I just I'm well, I'm pregnant right now. I'm 17 weeks pregnant with our fourth child.

So, it's more managing the home,

homeschooling, being able to focus on that. I kind of hit a point where I felt like I'm being pulled too many different directions, which is partly my own doing. I do a lot. But this is the first time my husband just got a new job. So, this is the first time that his income is like pretty settled. Like he's in his career.

It's It feels really good. Good. And What does he What does he make?

Right now, he makes about 47 an hour.

So, I think our take home We don't know.

He just got the job, but I think our typical take home is going to be around 83 to 85,000.

>> Yeah, that sounds right. Okay. Good.

>> Yes. And how much debt do you guys have?

>> What was the question? How much debt?

How much debt? We have about 28,500,

not including our home. And on what?

We have a personal loan for 14,500

that we used to buy him a car. This is about a month ago. And to pay off a little bit of credit card debt. And then we have one credit card that has about 12,400 and the other one that has about $300 on it. Mhm. And then we own a rental home as well, so we owe about um um

257 on that.

If you sold that, what is that worth?

It's probably worth around 360,

depending on what the market does over the summer. If I had uh three kids with one on the way and I don't have time to work 3 hours a day, uh I don't have time to manage a rental property. I'm going to sell that property and use that money to clean that up. >> the debt, yeah. And Stephanie, could you work through this >> my husband's plan.

>> Yeah, I'm on board with him. I would do that cuz that that'll take stress off you guys. And then that gives you the ability to stay home with no bills. And here's the other thing. You can't You also have to stop being inconsistent in your approach, okay? Here's what I mean.

Dave, we've been working hard to get out of debt. Two weeks ago, my husband bought a car on a loan.

>> Yeah, and then he Last weekend >> Hello, that doesn't come out of the same mouth, does it?

Yeah, and then he also went and bought a mower this last weekend for like 1,200.

So, I forgot that one. We also have that. Okay, this this stupidity has to stop. Otherwise, you're going to bleed out. Yeah, that's I think my struggle is that I feel like with our income, he thinks we'll we'll just sell the rental and we'll get out of debt, but I've just watched us sort of and so then I'm like, "We'll do the first three days >> the selling the rental and getting out of debt is only smart if you stop borrowing money and buying crap you can't afford.

Yeah, and I think that >> justify him buying a mower and a car.

Yeah. So, you guys have other issues that aren't just debt issues here. The two of you need to get aligned on where we're going to spend our money and that we're not borrowing money anymore, period.

Yeah, and I think that I'm more on that side and >> I know, I can tell. No, you're not either. No, no, you're not either. I'm I'm a spender, too. We're both spenders.

>> not going to eventually get there.

>> saying that's what her husband is saying. Yeah, so Stephanie, what I would do tonight is I would say I would have you two sit down, put the kids down, and just say, "Hey, where do we want to be in 2 years? What's a perfect world for us in 2 years?" Okay?

Yeah. >> we have no debt, we have very little stress financially because he's making a great income, we're budgeting it together, we have goals, you're home, homeschooling your kids, you got a 2-year-old at that point running around.

Like, like you guys need to paint a picture of where you guys want to go because here's the thing, here's what the red flag, honestly, that during this whole call that got me that I'm like, "Well, crap." It's the mo- the 20 the $1,200 mower.

just kind of made. That's the mindset that has to change between you guys, that we have to be so focused and so buckled down that we know exactly where every single dollar's going. And if we pay off this rental, we are we are agreeing for the rest of our lives that we are not going back in debt cuz you're exactly right, Stephanie, if your habits don't change and you guys just have a little fairy wand that sweeps this debt off, which is the the equity of the home, the rental 100% and I don't want all that hard work to go backwards.

So, so there's has to be agreement.

And so when we sell this rental and we pay off this and yeah, that that's the end of it. And then, Stephanie, if I were you, uh what else I would do is since you're only working 12 hours a week, I probably would work up until baby comes because uh not going to be homeschooling the kids in the summer. Uh we're in April now and so, you know, May's coming, kids will be out of school. Like, I just know it's hectic with kids in May, it's just nuts.

So, get done with the school year, continue to work, work through the summer a few hours a day, and then when baby comes and starting in August, then say, "I'm not going to be you know, if you guys choose to not work in August, then do that." But I would I would keep your job, personally, through the summer if I were you. Okay. What did you want to say, Dave? >> Okay.

Another way of um looking at this is the reason you're having to ask a question about whether or not you need to work while you're pregnant and you're homeschooling is not because of the income, it's because you continue to buy lawnmowers and cars you can't afford.

Yeah. So, you're actually working for those things.

Yeah, and I don't want to work for those things. I want to be able to work >> those things have to stop.

Yeah. Permanently.

And so, that's the two of you saying, "Sharon and I had this meeting and you

know, um you know, Zig Ziglar used to say that um

if you if you want a good marriage, you got to figure out that you're both on the same side. And so, yeah, we're both on the same side and the beside is we want to be where Rachel painted 2 years from now. And in order to get there, we have to be in agreement on what the path to get there looks like and it's no more borrowing. Mhm.

And that's exactly what's going on. And that's what has to stop. >> know what that is? That's the part of debt that is so frustrating when you talk to people is that they're working and they're working for for crap.

They're working for stuff. Mhm. Not for the value system that which they want to live. You know? >> number of times I've talked to a lady who wants to quit and go home and be with her kids >> Yes. >> and I'm like, "How much you know, we work with the work the math all the way down. It's $400 is all it is and and the the van payment's $400." Yeah.

>> Sell the stupid van. Don't worry about your working is for the van. >> the van, right. >> doing.

Sell stupid van and go home with your kids. >> Yes. Yep. >> You know, and so, it's well, I need the van.

No, you well, you you know, you can't have it both. Okay, you got to decide which one you want. You want the van or you want to work? >> And work for your values, people.

Do that. Let it Let that be the driver and not stuff and all this crap. Set that desired future out there 2 years like she was talking about and paint that in detail and then work to get there.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Lucy is with us in Detroit. Hi Lucy, how

are you?

>> [music] >> Good. How are you guys today? Better than we deserve. What's up?

So, um I wanted to know what kind of student loans I should be pulling out for school um and how should I be financing for school? How old are you?

I'm just turned 20. Okay. Are you in school?

Yes, I'm in school currently. I'm uh finishing up my prerequisites for nursing. You're finishing out your what?

My prerequisite for nursing school.

>> Okay. Yeah. And then you've got a long you got a 4 years left after that, right? Yep. Yep. Okay. How are you paying for it now? Just the pre-reqs?

Um it's a lot of it I'm going to community college uh to save money um and uh a lot of it almost all of it

is covered by um like fast loan

financial aid. Okay. So, um I was just got done with talking to an advisor um and she told me I could do like the bridge to BSN program um at a

local university and it only take like uh 2 years to get my BSN um and that might be a lot cheaper instead of just transferring um just transferring straight in to university.

How much would that program be, do you know? Um for that program it's around 8 to

15,000.

Uh a semester or year? Or total for 2 years?

Per per semester. And it's four semesters?

Yes. Okay.

Are Are you working at all?

Yes, um I'm currently a pharmacy technician. Um I make about $22 an hour.

Um right now I'm working 20 hours a week only because the classes are getting pretty hard. So I'm just kind of trying to balancing out with the like homework and stuff that I have. >> Yeah. Are you How are you able to live on 20 hours a week?

Are you living at home? Um so I just actually moved back in with my

dad. He was closer to the schools

and we kind of came to an agreement that like you know nothing is going to get in

my way and like you know he's going to be chilling everything so I can just finish school and then save up to move out. Okay, so you're going to be able to live there for free while you go to school.

Yes, well >> That's good. as of right now but he has brought up rent. So that's been kind of an issue as well. Okay. Well, I mean that you know first thing we have to do is be able to eat and have a shelter. Okay, then the second thing we have to do is be able to pay for school and so what I would do I think your counselor is probably giving you pretty good advice. I'm going to look for a lot of different ways to get that degree and

and any possible grants but

we're not going to tell you here at Ramsey to get a student loan of any kind. We're going to tell you to avoid that at all costs. Okay? Because even if you

don't graduate because something happens and you're not able to graduate, you still have the student loan. Student loans are forever. You cannot get rid of them. They're a pain in the butt. I will tell you that your career choice of nursing is incredible as far as upside

potential, lots of flexibility. You're going to be able to do a lot of different things. You'll be able to take a 40-hour work week plus ER on the weekends and make 150 to 200,000 dollars a year if you watch what you're doing as you as you grow this career over time.

So you've got a great

field that you've chosen for a lot of

reasons. Uh Uh so, I want to encourage you to do that. The other thing is if you can get any kind of nursing certification, the cheapest possible way

and get employed at a hospital or a large medical practice, they'll probably pay pay for your tuition to continue.

Yes. Yep, absolutely. Um I was I I know

some people that work in the local hospitals in the area.

Um and everybody been offered positions as a pharmacy tech. Um only issue is that they're not really flexible on scheduling. I don't care. If If you're a pharmacy tech at the hospital and they're paying your tuition, you make the schedule work, kiddo.

Yeah. You go do it. >> Mhm. That's a $15,000 raise per

semester.

Right?

Mhm. So, you suck it up and make the schedule work. That's great money.

>> 2 years, Lucy, and it's getting >> do anything. >> You can be working nights and go I mean, you can You can do anything for just 2 years. You know what I mean? Like that's how I would look at it is I mean, how how quickly 2 years goes.

You know, you think about we're in 2026. 2024 was just like for just a snap. I mean, it was just so fast. So, do that, but I But if you have to cash flow any level of it, I mean, on the low end, I know eight grand is what you said per semester, but oh my gosh, if you can make which I wouldn't want you to do this, but I'm saying you can make two grand Door Dashing.

You know what I mean? Like you could find the cash to be able to cash flow and just talk to the financial aid office and say, "Hey, can I pay per semester?" Right? And look at it. But when you can get a job, what you're saying, in your field, working in any level of institution that is in there that's going to help pay for school, like that's A1 for me.

>> Dive in. >> That's it. And then get that degree and then get the next degree, you know, go LP, go RN, go all you know, go all the way through the whole process and, you know, keep moving up and keep moving up, keep adding to your education uh as long as they're paying for it and you're just work.

And so my point is you're making the least money you're ever going to make right now. If you'll stay on this track. But but roll up your sleeves and do what it takes to get this for free. Yes, take that uh farm pharmacy tech over there at

the hospital and they pick up your tuition to be a nurse. Absolutely.

All day long. And uh oh, I can't go to happy hour. Well, you didn't need to be at happy hour anyway. You need to be doing this stuff. So, this is good.

Yeah, absolutely. And uh and you know, if your dad wants to charge too much rent, then go get you a a roommate and move out. But if he's giving you something reasonable, it's 50 bucks or something just to whatever. Mhm. Um you know, but if you're if you're hustling like that and he's able to help you by just providing housing, that's a big help.

And you just take every one of these little tidbits and you put them all together and it keeps you from borrowing. But no student loans. No

student loans. You got to figure out a way to work around that. You have to slow down your process or you have to change your number of hours you're working or you have to do change where you're working or how you're working or something, but no student loans. You can do this.

You can figure it out. And when you do, you're going to look back and the 27-year-old version of you is going to really like this 20-year-old version of you. Because we talk to the 27-year-olds with $100,000 in student loan debt every single day and they don't like their old self.

And you don't want to do that. So, good question. Really good. I'm excited for you, Lucy. Jane is in Phoenix. Hi, Jane.

How are you?

I'm doing well, Dave and Rachel. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

All right. So, we are on baby step two.

We have about 36K left in consumer debt.

Um my husband makes about 6K a month and I'm a stay-at-home homeschool mom.

Um we have had just kind of a crazy

series of events happening and our emergency fund is drained um due to our fridge, range, dishwasher, both vehicles all breaking within the last 2 months.

And my husband got a new job which praise God you know has brought in money to help with some of those things but his stepdad passed away and the funeral is out of state and just for him to get there it will take about 500 $600 due to

flights and then a hotel.

So I'm calling to see I want to honor our parents. He wasn't extremely close with his stepdad but we want to honor our parents and I don't want to you know encourage him to go or not go if that is not wise financially and then

yeah and he's also just kind of wrestling with it too. We're really trying to stay on track to get this paid off and I would go.

I would go. You got the 500 bucks, right? We can sell one of our beater cars is what we can do. Yeah.

I would do that. >> I would go. Man, you guys made it so easy. All right.

>> [laughter] >> You never regret going to a funeral.

It's it's well especially something like that. It's it's not $5,000 and we're not flying 16 people to Italy.

I mean it's $500 and you're sending just him to be really near his mom near his mom

because his stepdaddy wasn't that close to the start with.

But and he's not going to be there very long. Yeah. I I hear you. I think it just I wanted to make sure cuz we like I said emergency's gone and we have like my my whole kitchen is torn apart so so just we wanted to be wise and not say oh emotionally Yeah but in 4 months your kitchen will be fixed.

You guys will be on the track you'll be on track paying it off and you you don't want to look back and think golly Yeah you can't you can't you can't unring this bell.

It's a good question though. I appreciate the dedication James. Yeah the the the way you have framed up the question and the amount and the situation is why we gave the answer we gave. >> [music]

[music]

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>> [music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the FairWinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruze, Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host.

Sadie is in Rochester, New York. Hey Sadie, what's up?

Hi Hi, um so I am currently

about three quarters of the way done with baby step number two. Um I've kind

of worked my way out of a little over a

hundred fifty thousand dollars worth of debt. Wow, good for you.

>> I I I have a job and a half I like to say. I do have a full-time and a part-time job. Mhm.

Um I'm ready both. I'm ready to get out of New York. I would like to move south.

Um with the sale of my home, I could

finish off baby step number two and number three. >> [sighs] >> My question is though um I after that I mean I do have a lump sum after both of those items are completed

of about seventy-five thousand dollars.

>> Mhm.

I could either buy a house Mhm. and have that comfort but have it be gone really the twenty percent Mhm. or I could rent

and invest in a rental property.

Um the location that I would like to head is tourist nation.

Um so an Airbnb or a rental or even an

apartment home would not go

unrented.

Um my problem is I am feel like I'm a bit of a control freak and I want that comfort of having something that's mine.

Mhm. But I am also losing that half job.

Um I do my full-time job is a remote um job so I'm able to >> Okay, so what do you make at your full-time job?

So I'm at sixty-sevenish >> And what do you make at the part-time job? Uh roughly twenty-five thousand.

>> Doing what?

Uh so I'm admin admin for a church office actually. Okay. And you're talking about moving where your ideal place if you bought a home and settled in? Not Airbnb, but you just bought a home. What would be your ideal location in the South?

I I really want to be on the beach somewhere in South Carolina. Okay. I mean, we we we have joked Myrtle Beach um just outside of Myrtle Beach though. I mean, somewhere like Conway Yeah. or somewhere like that would be my ideal living situation.

Okay. I like that. >> Um You said we. Who's we? Me and the other two.

Um >> [laughter and clears throat] >> So, I do have a little bit of muddy situation. Um I I have I have been married for a year and a half.

Um but we've never combined finances. Not for lack of trying on my part. Mhm. Um there just is that hindrance and and we've had the discussion of perhaps we just, you know,

we continue on. I mean, it the relationship is great. You know, we don't have any questions. Um I carry the

financial um the household finances.

Um he is on the road a lot. He's got his own business. He's got, you know, a lot of debt of his own that he handles.

Um so, when I say we, I do mean my

husband and I and um his two girls both

will be college age here fairly soon. Um

he does have college accounts set up for both of them already. Um so, that is not something that out of the proceeds of this house

I Do you guys Do you guys >> you're you're probably making a face at me. I'm not considering combining Do you

say Do you guys both own that home?

No. In New York? It was mine premarital.

It's yours. Okay. So, Yeah. when you buy

the home in South Carolina, is the plan that you are just going to be buying it and he'll just be living in there?

Under your name without any >> I I believe at that point I have kind of given a smidge of an ultimatum to say there will be a combined account, there will be a combined finance, you know, home account. I mean, it it can't just be an especially because I am losing

with the move. I'm not saying I'm I'm losing the income to be able to adequately >> He He's not got any He's not got any money to add to the down payment then.

No. No, he does not. Okay. All right.

Yeah, I I I think I'm I think I'm selling it and I'm buying a home in South Carolina.

And I think you already know that what's best for you is for the two of you to combine your finances and have full transparency and full weight together. Um, you know, and and whether

his name is on the title or not in most states, a married couple that buys a home, they they spouse has marital interest in the house anyway. Um, in the in the event of a divorce and so, you know, you're probably putting that 75,000 at risk, so to speak,

potentially. I mean, you could show a paper trail that you brought it from that you brought that money to the table from the thing in the event of a divorce and probably work it out, but I I don't know. But anyway, I I I I think the better answer is is to combine and go go

buy a house, kiddo, and and I think you'll also pick up some side work because I don't think you're going to you know, it's not like there's no churches in South Carolina that need a some admin help.

>> [laughter] >> Like there's a church on every corner in South Carolina. So, um >> I am open to gig work, you know, I I did a lot of Uber and, you know, Door Dash and things when I was first starting out on baby step. And we actually have a Ramsey approved realtor that we're talking to down in South Carolina already. So, I mean, I think we're taking the right steps.

>> Yeah, but I I would put the worry of letting go. Pay off all your debt, use whatever's left for your baby step two and three, and then use the balance for your down payment. And yeah, take all your proceeds and do that and combine your finances and I think you're setting up a good life. Yeah.

And ideally with what he's making a year, right? In a perfect world, as you combine, that's the power of working together financially.

to pay off debt, you're funding retirement together, you're just going to get ahead financially so much faster when you're working together. Even if he does have some debt and you may you guys may have to pay some of it off, but um but gosh, both of those incomes working in one household and looking at it as a household income um is going to be so helpful. Yeah.

That's incredible. So, guys, we keep telling you this over and over and she's obviously heard us say this, too, so we're not talking to her anymore at this point, but just to remind everybody out there that um that when we did the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, Airtight Research, what we found over and over and over again is that 82% of the millionaires say that one of the reasons they became millionaires is working together in tandem, full disclosure, full transparency, pulling the wagon together with their spouse.

That means that only a handful of millionaires become millionaires in spite of their spouse.

And so, as I said earlier, you know, Zig Ziglar used to say, "Marriage is best if you understand we're both on the same side." And so, we're on the same side, the enemy's not in the house, the enemy's outside the house.

That alignment is not only so healthy for your relationship, it also is the highest data point

for you to become wealthy.

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Sarah's in Seattle. Hi Sarah, how are you? I'm great. Thanks for having me. Sure.

I um I'm kind of I'm I'm I'm recently in a divorce. Um I've been um divorced for about a year now and have three kids all going to college next year. Um I'm financially I'm doing pretty good. I I own my home outright.

It's a a $900,000 house.

I have about $8,000 in the bank. I make

$85,000 a year.

And um I'm kind of nervous about college. Each kid has a college account with about $60,000 in it, but you know, even even though they're all three are going to a state college, that's $120,000 for 4 years. And I'm

responsible for half of half, so a quarter of that is $90,000 for all three, and I just I really don't know how I'm going to do that. You I'm sorry, the caught you're responsible for half of half not counting the college funds?

No, including I mean yes yes, so >> Cuz you're responsible for 90, but you have 60?

No, I'm responsible for 90 because

you know, it's it's 30,000 a year for each kid.

Um and they're going to each be there for 4 years, right? So, that's 120 each

and then we have 60 for each so that leaves them 60 for their dad to pay half and me to pay half. That's 30 and so >> not they're not they're not planning on doing anything, the kids aren't?

Well, I mean Like working?

Oh, well, of course they work. They all work. They they pay for all of their activities, all of their We pay for their tuition and their food. Um and of

course the where they live and that is more than tuition nowadays. So, it's it's kind of putting me in a rough spot cuz I thought we did good planning financially for their college and come to find out it's it's not even really half. It's almost half, but um Well, Sarah, there's a little bit of me that's like, well, if we can't afford

the college, then I don't know if that's where they can go. So, maybe they go to a community college for 2 years and then transfer and that cuts >> Right. cuts it in half or more than half, you know?

And academic scholarships I mean I I I don't know what else to do because >> mean they can work while they're in school was my point.

Yeah, they definitely can. And I will pay for part of it.

It will. Yeah. You're right. It will. Um

my my question is because I own my house

and um would you would you ever think about Would should I refinance and just pull a little bit of money out and just pay for it? No? Okay. No, we need to work this out. We need to buy a college that we can afford between what you can put in, your ex-husband can put in, the college funds can put in and the kids can put in while working while they're there. Those are your four numbers that you can enter into the equation and then that will tell you where we can afford to go to school.

Oh, and by the way, where they live? Are you talking about the dorm or getting off campus apartments or Oh, the a dorm.

We're going the cheapest route, so the dorms. I mean, that's yeah, $15,000 a

semester including food. Yeah. Um [clears throat] Yeah, that sounds right. >> It's uh I Oh, no, 7,500 a semester with the >> So, where are they What school are we talking about?

Washington State, the cheapest school, one of the cheapest schools in the state. Yeah. No, so it's And same state tuition. No, I didn't I didn't think it The numbers you were giving me weren't some kind of crazy numbers. They're they're very reasonable. >> Right. But it's just that it adds up because the as you said, the Yeah, they tripled >> I mean, the the dorm and the food is as much as the tuition. And that's normal.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so, um they're

they're not within driving range of either one of you, are they? Where they could live with y'all? >> Mhm. No, unfortunately, no. It's It's like 5 hours away, so.

Um But um would you would you ever like if if I were to get married again and and um you know, move out of my home into another home, would would renting out my house and using that be some

something? I mean, cuz I'm kind of I'm I am dating somebody pretty seriously now and I I mean, that was another option where I could do that. >> think a million-dollar houses are rental house usually.

Well, in Seattle, it is. It's a It's a small house. I mean, you'd be shocked at what a million-dollar house looks like in Seattle. >> no, I'm not shocked at all. I'm just saying that's a that's a fairly expensive rental property even in Seattle. Um I'm not I'm not unaware of the Seattle [clears throat] prices. They're very expensive, but the um Right. But but,

you know, you have a million dollars on the table there. If you had a million dollars sitting in the middle of your table kitchen table and you were getting married and you had kids going to college and you were thinking about buying another home, you wouldn't say, "Oh, I'm going to use this money to buy a rental." Right. You would say, "I'm going to use this money for the next home and the kids going to college." Mhm.

You rental wouldn't even be on the list of options. The only reason rental's on the option is by default because you already own it, it makes you think about that. Correct. Yeah, and Sarah, I would say too, you know, when you break it down per semester what extra they're going to need, you know, there because they're going to be able to get through this 60 for the first 2 years.

So, that So, you saving some money and then you know, you don't have to have that money tomorrow, right? It's in 2 years. So, I understand, you know, you make 85 a year, but what can you set aside for 2 years, right?

>> And what can they set aside? >> And then what can they Yeah, and then and then and then your husband, right? So, your ex-husband. And so, as you guys all kind of form this together, the good news is again, you have you have some time on your side. This is not 60 grand that you have to have tomorrow. It's really in 2 years is when the when it's all going to be due. Yeah, so and and all of that is reduced by the 60,000

being used up is reduced by they don't need as much because they are working.

Right, that they don't even use it all. Yeah, yeah. >> Hey Sarah, you got a 4-year degree?

I do not. Okay.

Um Now, my ex did. Yeah, okay. I I have one, my wife has one, and everyone that I know just about in my personal life that is successful uh that has a 4-year degree worked while they were in school.

Right. It's like a normal It's a normal thing. >> And my kids my kids do work. All All three of them do.

They work 15 hours a week. >> they're lazy. I'm suggesting there's actual mathematics that are going to help you be able >> that that are able to help this solution help help you with this solution. And so, and it's really good for their character.

And Rachel, we found when we were doing a bunch of the studies and some of the research when we're putting together the borrowed future uh the student loan debacle, which she's not talking about student loans, but the Borrowed Future documentary that we got all the awards on. One of the things we found was the kids that work actually end up with higher grades. Yeah, higher GPAs. Yeah, and sir, and I would be asking them at Washington State what what can they be doing?

Could they cuz by the time they're a junior, and again, this is when the money kind of starts to like, okay, by junior year is when we're going to need some cash. Can they, you know, be an RA in the dorm, right? And part of their housing is paid for because of that. Like, what what creative things in the next 2 years while they're on campus can they figure out that they can plug into the university to help pay for some of this for the last 2 years of their school.

Mhm. They hired him as a janitor and employees got free tuition. Yep.

>> [laughter] >> He's like >> There you go. unbelie- I mean, I didn't That's so simple. I would The RA thing, a lot of people did, right? You know, the resident assistant, right? A lot of people did that. And you know, And even scholarships, I don't know. Like, just getting >> your brother worked in a mattress store selling mattresses. >> Mhm. He's our He's currently our family uh Talk about a conspiracy. All these years later, all these years later, he's still our family uh advisor on mattress purchases.

>> I know. And I need to I need to I need to corner him on the conspiracy about about mattress stores.

About mattress stores? >> Yeah, like the whole thing is like, who who literally goes to a store to buy a mattress? Now, most people don't, but they're everywhere. So, it's like, what's really happening?

What's really happening?

That's a good That's a good That's a good conspiracy. That's a good black hole to go to. >> There's Yeah, they're all laundering mafia money. >> You never know. No, I don't I don't I don't think so.

>> everywhere. That's the weird thing. How many people you see going into a mattress store? I have. >> gone in there and purchased mattresses myself. So, >> that's what I'm saying. Your mother bought a couple the other day. works and I he's a great source with my conspiracy. I need I need a corner him.

He'll never He's He's a member of the Illuminati. He'll never tell you. >> [laughter] [music]

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>> [music]

>> The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by YRefi.

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Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Dave in Massachusetts. My wife and I have two kids. Our oldest is currently in college at a state school, so we are paying in-state tuition. Our youngest is a senior and is looking at colleges in a different state, which means higher tuition. We own a second home in that state, but it's not our residence.

Should my wife and I get a divorce so we can change one of our permanent residences to that state and keep the other permanent residence in our state?

Doing so would save us over a hundred thousand dollars by paying in-state tuition for both kids. My wife and I love each other very much and the paperwork paperwork wouldn't change our relationship.

Wow. I don't know if I've ever heard this question before. >> Wow, I've heard it for different reasons that were similar. >> a legal divorce to pay [laughter] for the out-of-state college tuition.

>> [gasps] >> Oh lordy, no Dave. No Dave. I think if you can't afford the out-of-state tuition, y'all can't afford the college.

So looks like a >> Tell your kid no.

>> [laughter] >> Oh, there's a shocking concept.

You're before you divorce your wife, maybe you just tell your kid no.

>> [gasps] >> Oh my gosh.

>> How about no?

You can't go to You can't go to school over there. No.

That that settle I mean, that's a lot easier.

No. >> [laughter] >> Dude, you're weird.

I mean, who talks about divorcing their wife to get in-state tuition? For a kid for 4 years? Because you can't tell your own spoiled kid no.

That's whacked. Oh man. Yeah, Dave. I

don't think that Sorry, Dave in Massachusetts, not you Dave. That can get confusing quick. Mhm. [snorts] No.

Both of us are whacked, but for different reasons. Oh my [laughter] god.

>> [gasps] >> Oh yeah, Dave in Massachusetts, nope.

Nope. Nope. I would not go through a divorce. Um I wouldn't even tell your

wife you had that thought.

>> [laughter] >> That would be dangerous. You could wake up dead. Oh my gosh. >> oh man. I wonder how many people do that though, try to scam the system and like Well, people do it. I've heard of people like they don't want to pay alimony.

They want to keep getting the alimony from the previous marriage. And if they get married Oh, they lose the >> get married. So they just act like they're married and never get married or >> Sure. I hear that.

>> Or if we get divorced, we get a she her disability insurance will double. So we're going to get divorced so that we get twice the money from disability. Whatever. All these different >> I've heard the opposite.

>> different things happen. >> we need to get married for military purposes, like to have whatever spousal thing. You know what I mean? Like I've heard that kind of stuff.

Yeah, but never for a kid's college. Wow.

Yeah, Dave I'm >> It's a new one. New one something. >> your priorities really screwed up.

And so let's just start with telling your spoiled brat child no.

>> that I don't think the spoiled brat 18-year-old is asking his parents to get divorced. This is this is the dad. >> him to pay $100,000 to go across a state line. >> this is the dad's idea. Dad wrote it in.

>> I know. Dad wrote it in the divorce, but on Dad. I'm blaming Dad. Yeah, >> the whole thing the >> [laughter] >> I I agree. The whole thing the child's behavior is the father's fault. So, so let's just go with that. >> A child wanting to go to an out-of-state school for a hundred thousand dollars?

>> is not uh probably over the course of

probably over the course of a four years. But, I'm just saying this is the dad Don't you blame this on that 18-year-old. This is the dad's idea. So, no. I'm going to blame it on the whole dysfunctional family.

Yeah, all right. Wow, Hannah's in Rochester, New York. Hey, Hannah, what's up?

Hi, I'm just calling uh to ask a question about my student loans and what I should do. Okay.

So, um I'm currently a a registered nurse and my work actually pays a hundred fifty dollars a month towards um my loans.

>> Uh-huh. What's the balance on your loans?

Uh four thousand five hundred dollars.

Oh, wow.

I just have to pay the minimum for them to keep paying it, which is only it's six about sixty-two dollars a month.

Mhm. So, I didn't know if I should pay off

pay it off and not have the min and like

keep doing the minimum payment or if I Do you have the four thousand dollars in the bank account?

Uh no. Not right now. You're an RN, why

not? You make good money, don't you?

Yeah, we we have a um we bought a house

and we are getting back to doing better budgeting. Okay, good.

So, your question really is when I get back to better budgeting, do I put more on the student loan than the minimum payments given that the employer is paying some of it?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I would put I would put all I can. I you know, I'm going to work all list all of my debts.

Do you have other debts other than your home and the student loan? >> Um we just have about a thousand dollars. No car payments? >> Or No, no car payments and our house.

Okay, good. Okay, so I'm going to list the two debts, the thousand and the four thousand. First thing I'm going to do is pay minimum payments on the student loan and attack the one thousand dollar and get it gone in about a month and then I'm going to attack the student loan aggressively. But during those several months that you're knocking the student loan out, you're still going to get some of the benefit.

But no, I'm not going to keep the loan around like a pet >> for four years, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, the biggest thing is you want to be clear of this thing and you you know, you want to be have a you know, complete fresh clean start, okay?

Okay. Good for you. Thanks for asking the question. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Rogers in Branson, Missouri. Hey Roger, what's up?

Good afternoon. [clears throat] I've got a question for you, Dave. Okay.

I got seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars in cash.

I've got a million dollars in an IRA and every year I got to take money out of that anywhere from forty-three, forty-seven thousand dollars by month.

>> Required Required minimum distribution, so you're over seventy-three.

Yes, uh I'll be seventy-six. Got you.

>> Uh I just paid fourteen thousand dollars in income tax, which is fine. I have no debt. I have two credit cards. The only thing I get on there is gasoline and I pay that off soon as the bill comes. Got you. >> I never paid interest on a credit card.

I got a house and about nine hundred thousand dollars is worth that's paid for. >> How much of your million you get So you got a couple million dollar net worth.

Way to go, man.

It's about three million total.

>> Yeah, congratulations. How much of that did you inherit?

None. So it's called >> I take that back. My mother passed away at $60,000 about 4 years ago and I put that right in the bank. Never had So you're one of the great American millionaires that did it starting from nothing without inherited money. Congratulations, sir.

Well, you're to fault for that.

>> [laughter] >> It was something you My question is what do I do with the $750,000?

I have no children. My newest car is a

pickup truck. It's 10 years old. My wife's car is 23 years old. We live very

well on 32 acres of beautiful land

and I just don't trust banks with this bail-in, bail-out. Stock market to me is

like Vegas. Well, what's your what's your 401k in, honey?

It's It's with an insurance company, a major insurance company. And you trust insurance companies more than banks?

No, the financial part of it. I put a million dollars in there 20 years ago and I've been getting this money back and back and there's still over a million dollars in it. Yeah. So

it's worked out pretty well. But I mean insurance companies are less stable than banks.

Well, according to the report I get from the insurance company, they're loaded with money, billions and trillions of Well, that would be true, but so are the banks.

The answer to your question, sir, is I I do not have any money in insurance companies. All of my money is invested in mutual funds and in the stock market and in banks in high-yield savings

accounts. And so if you're literally sitting with that money stacked in your bedroom, you need to do something with it.

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>> [music]

>> Arya is in Phoenix. [music] Hi Arya, how are you?

Hi I'm happy and doing good. How are you yourself? Better than I deserve. Is it Arya, is that correct?

Yes, Arya. Okay, cool. How can we help?

Um I just kind of had a question. So, a couple of years ago I got into a car accident that wasn't my fault and we should be settling here soon.

Um I don't know the exact amount of money that I'll be getting, but I know it'll be close if not over $100,000.

>> Wow. >> Um I'm 22. Yeah, it was it was a pretty bad accident. Um Are you recovered Are

you recovered? Are you okay?

Um I didn't break anything, but I do have long-term damage and I had a traumatic brain injury because of it.

Okay. So, is it affecting your income potential or anything like that?

Um not anymore. I was out of work for about 4 months, but since then I've been back at work.

Um so, like I'm physically capable to work and like mentally capable to work, but I do have issues with like my long-term and short-term memory.

Um and then I have some issues like with my spine and some uh like nerve damage around like my back and my neck. Do you think you're going to need any of this money to take care of you?

Yes. Okay.

For in what regard? What would you use it for?

Well, probably like more like chiropractic care cuz like I said, I'm I'm pretty okay for the most part, but I do still have like chronic pain basically for the last 3 years. Wow. Um

It's a bad bad wreck. >> After my accident, yeah, it was I So, I got T-boned. Um I got hit in my driver's side. I was uh left on a green light.

The guy was going about 40 miles an hour and he and I was his brick wall and he hit right in the middle of my driver's >> Oh. All right. So, um what's the chiropractic costing you?

Um well, I'm not going there right now.

Through my attorney, I was in care for about a year and a half. Um so, this was back in 2023 I mean, if you going going forward, huh? If If you're going forward, if you need some chiropractic care, what's it going to cost you?

Um I don't know because I don't I can't afford it right now like copay and stuff through my work. Um I don't even know if my work covers chiropractic care. I know I can do it independently for like probably 100 bucks a month. >> Okay. So and you make what?

I make $21 an hour. Okay. All right. So what I'm going to do is look at your budget if I'm you and and look find out about the chiropractic care what it's going to cost you what it's going to cost you out of pocket because you're going to need some adjustments apparently as you go forward, right?

Yeah. Okay. If you can cover that out of your income then that frees up the 100,000 or whatever to invest. If you can't then as

you invest that you're going to have to consider that you're going to need some off of it for your care.

Right. Best case scenario is you don't need this money and you can invest it, leave your hands off of it and let it grow.

So my question with that is after my accident I was out of work for about 4 months um and I didn't qualify for any

like disability or anything and so I got into some debt and then the car that I got after my accident I had it for about a year and the transmission went out on it and so it got repossessed cuz I couldn't afford the car payment and fixing it. So I have about like $18,000

in debt from the car cuz I only I didn't have it for very long and then also having to take out like personal loans and using credit cards just to survive.

Mhm. Um so I know that How much is the car repo of the 18?

Um I owe I think it's just under 11,000

on it now. And they'll probably settle that for around 3,000 cash.

But you need to get that in writing.

Call and say I got you know I can make you a cash offer to settle this. I can't pay the whole thing. Would you take 3,000? And they're going to argue and you're going to argue back, and you're going to come in, you know, back and forth, and and then give them a check and be done with it, but it'll be pennies on the dollar, okay?

And then your other stuff you can clean up for how much?

Um I mean that would be like the remaining thousand-ish. Now, some of it is in collections though, so I don't know how that I would just I would call and get a pay off and pay it off.

When when you get the money, okay? So, somewhere around 12,000 of your hundred thousand is going to go and you're going to be debt free. Now, what are you driving now?

Um I drive a 2006 Hyundai Tucson. Is it

paid for?

Yeah, I got it from my family friend. Um so, it's in my name, it's paid for, and then but it has some fixes I need to do on it, but I do want to get a new like

You may need You may need to move up but you may need to move up a little in car, so you may want to take some of this money to move up in car.

So, if you sold that car and put If you sold that car and put $10,000 with it,

then you'd have a pretty decent car, okay? And pay cash, no no more debt, okay? But so now we've used We've used 22,000 of your hundred.

Mhm. Okay? And then you need to set an emergency fund aside that you don't touch except for rainy days. So, you need probably $10,000 to do that, so now we've used 32.

All right? And so, you're going to have somewhere around $70,000 or so to invest

long term, but you'll have an emergency fund and upgraded car, zero debt.

And that the And that we If you don't have anything hovering over you that you knew probably can cash flow your chiropractic.

Okay. That makes sense?

Yeah. One of my goals, like this is because of the money and I'll be able to with it, is I want to go back to school, um and I want to get my association license, but I want to move back to my home state where all my family is.

So Good. >> know if it's smart for me to use part of that money to move there or >> well, a little bit, but keep it very, very conservative.

This money's going to go away quickly because we've almost spent a lot of it already just you and me talking.

Okay? So you have to be very careful because it'll it'll $4,000 and $5,000 itself away.

How much is the school? Do you know?

So I have a $12,000

um school fund from my grandparents that I'm able to use. When I was looking online just at current prices, it's probably going to cost like total price cuz it's a 2-year program um about 23,000.

So I'll be paying >> for the 2 years, yeah. For the 2 years? Okay, great. And then what does that what does that career pay when you get that completed?

When I was looking at jobs in the area, it's anywhere from 25 to 32 an hour.

Mhm.

Not much return on that.

You get 25 to 32 an hour at Target without getting the degree.

Not really cuz I want to get I have to get a certification license and I have to >> you can work at Target without getting the certification license and make as much as you will after you pay $23,000 for this license. So maybe you need to tool up and school up in something else that pays better.

Okay. Doesn't pay much.

I mean, that was like starting though cuz what I I would like to get my like I said license in laser hair removal, but once I get my advanced aesthetics license, I mean, there's other avenues I can go that's kind of just like my end point. >> Yeah, so I think I You need to have a $40 an hour goal here.

If you're going to spend money for education, it needs to take you to $40 pretty quick.

And I don't know if that I don't know that world, so I don't know if that's possible.

But Yeah, I'm not sure. I'd have to do Yeah, you mean you're going to have to really because you can't just spend $25,000 on a certification and then make $25 an hour when you can make that without a certification at Target.

Right. That's what I'm saying. So don't don't that's that's not a good investment. If it's $25 and it puts you into a program that in a few years you're making 40, okay, I'm with that. Okay.

But I don't you don't have to make 40 out of the gate, but you got to be thinking this through long term as to where this is taking you. But yes, generally speaking, if you think through education and it's going to cause your income to increase substantially due to the education, education would be a good use of this money. Yeah, and I think thinking long-term too saying, okay, you know, a goal would be in 5 years to be making 60,000 or 70,000. You know, whatever that is and then you back out from there.

there's you see a path forward that's very clear that after a year of this, I can step up to 32 an hour and then I step up to 35 and then I you know, you it may take you a year or two, but don't let the end goal be making 35 a year for

the rest of your life. >> Yeah. So you want to be making you want to be making more and again for that certification purposes to make sure you get the ROI out of it, but but yeah, my biggest word of caution is plan all this out because just like you said Dave, I'm like you can you'll spend 10,000 here and there and within five, six, seven transactions [music] it's gone. So stretch it as far as possible

with a with a really strict plan in place and put yourself on that strict plan. So if you're going to move, I'm only going to spend this much moving. So moving company that's going to help me has to stay within this this budget range. >> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, my daughter is my co-host today. Elizabeth in Wichita,

Kansas. Hi Elizabeth, how are you?

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, um I'm thinking about selling my house.

Okay. Um I have 150 around $150,000 in equity. Mhm.

And I'm thinking about finding a house to buy cash.

For 150?

Mhm.

You can What's that look like in Wichita, Kansas?

Well, around you know, smaller towns around, it's not it it wouldn't be a shack.

Mhm. It would be It would be nice enough. Mhm. Like a step up from a shack? You know, >> [laughter] >> it wouldn't be a shack that's nice enough. Is it good? Like a good like a good house that you'd be happy in for the foreseeable future? Okay, good. Okay.

>> Yeah. Yeah, something that we would be happy in. We. Or I would. Okay. Oh, I.

All right. So, I mean, is there a we or an I? >> [laughter] >> There's a we. Um my husband and my four children.

Okay. Four kids and 150.

Yeah. Wow. And what's the motivation for this, Elizabeth? What's What's the What's the home you're currently in that you're not satisfied with?

Well, we are very satisfied with our home. Um it's beautiful. Mhm. It's It's big.

Um but I'm I'm looking for ways to

simplify.

Okay. That's Yeah, that's great.

>> How old are your kids?

14, um 11, 6, and 2. And how many square feet is in the home that you currently live in?

Uh we've added a couple bedrooms, so as of right now around like 3,200 square ft.

>> Mhm. And the uh $150,000 cash home will

buy what kind of square footage?

Um I mean, I would say probably around 2,000 square ft.

So, it would be a big downsize, but we can also work on adding square footage.

Her husband's in the construction business? He's not, but he is He He works well, I

mean, he can do those things and um I grew up with parents who did rentals, so they know everything. This house we added two bedrooms, we added egress windows, and Yeah, so we can do those kind of >> I'm just curious as to why would you downgrade to add on if you're already

have >> I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily I mean, as long as we were comfortable, as long as we had enough bedrooms. Okay. Um

I've got two girls and two boys, so you know, um we can share bedrooms and and whatnot.

Yeah. So, what's your household income?

Um my husband makes 130,

um and that's gross. He

uh he's a UPS driver, so he works for >> balance on your current mortgage is what? Uh 205.

And you guys are how old?

He'll be 36 and I'll be 34 in June.

Okay. All right. Well, there's a lot of windows through which you could analyze this when someone says they want to simplify. Okay? >> Yes, perfect. >> If you want If you want to be debt-free and the have no mortgage and you're willing to give up the extra comfort that the 3,200 versus the 2,000 house has, it to get to that goal,

that's one version of simplify. Another version of simplify is more of our friends the minimalists and you're just like I we want a simpler life in general

and one of the benefits of that is we don't have any debt.

Um that's fine because what you're describing your current life as is not anywhere near out of control. It's definitely very conservative.

There's nothing here that you you know, like we don't >> y'all could buckle down and pay this off in 2 and 1/2 3 years if you wanted to, you know. >> what if you put $50,000 a year on the debt and you were done in 4 years?

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and I think my motivation is that

with with four kids and um my husband working so much, I really I want to live more. I want to have more I want to have more room to just spend time together and

you know, go to the lake, go fishing, stuff like >> And that means he doesn't have to work as much. Is that Is that what you mean? He So he he could pull back on work hours? Yes. And be home more.

If you Okay, that Okay, that's starting to make sense. That's a piece of the Okay, I get that. Okay. Yeah. And I And I stay home and I home school the four kids. So we're always together, but he's not there and it How many hours a week does he work?

That's a good question. I mean he definitely he he doesn't get home before 8:00 most nights.

Most nights he's out He's out driving till till 8:00. Okay, could he back off his hours, Elizabeth, and you guys still financially be okay?

Yes. I'm I'm sure that we could. It would just you know Like for a season. It just sounds like it would probably I would think from a logistical standpoint, it probably would be easier to cut back on some hours for a few years and be present at home while there's the kids going and then maybe pick it back up.

>> working he's working two jobs.

I'm he he works UPS. Oh, you said that. You said that. Okay. Yeah. >> So he doesn't have the option. He doesn't have the option of cutting back then. He's got to finish the truck run.

He's yeah, he's he's working what he has to work. So he's working 12 hours a day five days a week?

Approximately. Yeah.

So you got Saturday and Sunday to go to the lake. Yeah. Yep. You know, the house I will say the house is a lot of upkeep. That's another That's another con for it. I think that it just takes a lot of our time. So will the other one.

Right.

The 2,000 square [laughter] foot house is going to have as much upkeep as the 3,200 square foot house.

I really thought I was going to call you guys and you were going to be on my side and my I'm not [laughter] I'm not against you. I'm not against you. I'm just still haven't found the root I'm still looking for the root motivation.

For a minute there I thought you were trading the 3,200 for the 2,000 to get your husband back. But he doesn't really have that option.

He can't he unless he quits his job

he can't cut his hours.

Yeah. I mean, you know, he

kind of He could take a different route.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. He could take he he cover drives most of the time, so Okay, so he could take a different route and back his hours down. Why don't we just do that?

>> [laughter] >> Do it for six months Elizabeth and just see how it feels. And if it's off and you're and you guys are like, no, then you can ramp back up and then put the house for sale and that's great. It just feels like a lot of work. >> want to do it, what you're proposing is not evil. I'm just trying to figure out if it's going to give you what you want.

Or if you're if you're out of the you know, out of the frying pan into the fire here.

And so, you know, like yeah, I got my husband back, but now these kids are all crammed in the shoebox and I can't breathe. >> [laughter] >> Right. You know, and now I'm now I'm >> And I don't have a pantry and I don't have all this stuff. >> And and I can't you know, the stress level of four large teenagers in this house that's approximately half the size is different.

I mean, I'm okay with it, but I'm not sure if the trade-off is what you think it is. That's what I was trying to dig around and find out.

We're just trying to figure out why. The debt-free show. She's like, "Dave Ramsey's going to love this. I'm going to be debt-free. It's going to be an automatic yes." And we took the whole segment for you, Elizabeth. There you go. Either way, you're great.

>> [music]

[music]

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They've been vetted by us. You'll love it. ramsaysolutions.com/taxpro and you can find a pro in your area to help you if you've got a complicated return. >> [snorts] >> Scott's with us in Casper, Wyoming. Hi Scott, how are you?

I'm well, Dave. Thank you. Listen, um my

wife and I got married 45 years ago with 200 bucks in the bank and we owed about 15 grand. I just We're 69 now. I just

retired. I've got about

a little over 6 million in a traditional IRA and I'm not clear on exactly how what I should do with it. I can defer it until I'm 73

and take smaller or just take normal distributions at that point. I could um just cash out cash it out and um

pay the taxes or I could cash it out, I believe, and put it into a Roth IRA. And

um my my question is very simple. Which

Which Which one of those might be the best for my situation? Well, as you know, at 73 you've got required minimum distributions, RMDs, okay? That they're

going to require you to begin to pull down a certain percentage every year on

your 401ks and that's going to create a huge income for you because you've done so well. Congratulations.

I mean, wow. Look at you, man. Well done. Very well done. Okay, so that we

know is coming rig un- unless we go some kind of scorched earth thing, which I'm not going to recommend. So, I would just brace yourself and get ready for that.

Do you need any of the money in the meantime?

We don't have any debt. Okay. You have any other money other than this 6 million 401k?

Yes, sir. Um probably around 14 million

in US equities and ETFs, and roughly 20 some 25 million in real estate. All of that

debt free. Good night. What did you do for a living?

Uh that would be a story. Many different things. [laughter] Okay. So, To be honest, what we did was we just stayed in debt. >> here's your congratulations. You have absolutely slayed the dragon. I mean, this is amazing. Beautifully done. So,

starting with, you know, $15,000 in debt when we got married 45 years ago, and this is where we are. So, you're a classic you're a classic American millionaire. I'm just so proud of you.

Well done. Now, if you roll the 6

million all to a Roth IRA, 100% of it

[clears throat] you will pay taxes on that year, ordinary income.

And that's going to make you puke.

All right? When you see that when you see that tax bill, cuz it's going to be a $2 million tax bill.

Okay? Oh, yeah. And so, sit down with your tax professional, and I'm sure you have one, and start unpacking how we can move

some of the 6 million for a few years

to some period of time to get it all to Roth. I don't care if it's 10 years, 5 years, 20 years, where you can stomach the tax bill. You can actually pay the tax bill and roll all of it pay the tax bill out of your other assets.

Yeah, and that's what I would do. And so, if you rolled the 6 million Hmm, this is something to think about.

Look at this with your tax guy. You might go scorched earth on this one.

If you roll the whole thing over and pay 2 million out of your equities intact, pull it out and pay your taxes, you now have 6 million growing for the rest of your life tax-free.

And when you play place a beneficiary on

it, and you and your wife die and you leave it to your kids, they don't pay taxes on it.

And it's not an inherited IRA that has

to be withdrawn uh like >> under a trust, so >> you if they get a traditional if your kids get a traditional IRA handed to them, they have to withdraw it over the next 10 years.

Mhm. And and under the Biden Secure Act.

And so, they're going to pay taxes on it within 10 years.

I see. Okay. If you roll it all to Roth and you pay the taxes now, the growth on it tax-free will cover the tax bill within just a little while.

That's right. And so, I have moved mine. I did it more gradually than that, but I've got all of

mine in Roth.

And I did it so that it grows for me tax-free, but I'll probably never use it, and you'll probably never use this.

And so, it will go to Rachel and her siblings when I die completely tax-free, and they have no required distribution on it.

So, they can let it grow tax-free.

It can just sit there.

And it can get really awesome. Because that 6 million in 7 years, you're only 69, will be 12 million.

And in 7 more years, 14 years from now,

which is statistically you're likely to live that long, uh that 6 million will be 24 million.

All tax-free.

So, it might be worth you know, having a little bit of throw up in the back of your mouth and writing a tax check out of your other assets right now and doing it all in one year.

So visual. Well, I just it makes it makes me puke to think about giving the government $2 million cuz they're so freaking stupid. >> Stupid. But um but yeah, it's just

and it's my freaking money. It's not theirs. And then >> That you've already paid taxes on. >> Pay taxes like the rich. Kiss my butt.

And so liberals. And so anyway, the um

you know, you got it's just ridiculous.

So anyway, >> everyone to the show.

>> [laughter] >> I do too cuz you need to be educated.

But the um Wow. The >> [sighs and gasps] >> So yeah, I I want you to sit down with your tax guy and look at that idea.

Because when I move the stuff to Roth, I did it for the reason of it grows tax-free for me, but the actual huge benefit is that

it's a great estate planning tool. To

have your stuff in Roth.

Because your kids don't get hammered with the required distributions either. >> to pay What's the estate tax though?

Over $25 million would they start to have to pay? >> got estate tax problems that are different. >> Yeah, but out of a Roth but if a Roth moves over >> is taxable on estate tax also.

>> Even estate tax? >> Both of them are. That doesn't get Estate tax is different. This is income tax that we're talking about. Yeah, but he's got an estate tax problem. I'm sure you've got an estate tax planner and if you don't, you need to get one tomorrow um because you're definitely over all your exemption levels. So um

But yeah, way to go, dude. That's amazing. >> Man, you have absolutely killed it.

>> I love the like subtlety of I've got $6 million here and you're like, "Do you got anything else?" He's like, "Yeah, 25 25 [laughter] million more." >> million. >> Another 14 in ETN. Cash for Wyoming.

There you go. Well done, Scott.

>> but that's that's These are the millionaires. These are America's millionaires. And when you guys are watching political stuff and they say that the rich should be taxed. That's the guy you're talking about.

And it's not your money.

It's his money. He worked his whole life starting from nothing and invested wisely and built this. And

so taxing him on his death and taxing

him on his growth and taxing him and tax him and tax him and tax him and tax him and tax him. And and he ain't doing anything to you.

>> [laughter] >> You know? And but this just this this guy right here is my hero. I mean this is this is what we teach all of you to go be. But then you need to be aware that there are forces in the marketplace that don't like that.

Don't like you to be successful. So you have to fight against the estate tax problem.

And so but Scott, I'm just mad for you right now cuz there's a $2 million bill you're getting ready to pay. I think you're going to want to do it all at once though. And it would be ordinary income. So what would it be? Four 35? What what is that?

>> 35% Yeah. So it's going to be $2 million. I mean it's it's going to be over bit of it, I bet you. Mhm. Uh it's a lot. But the thing is I mean if that

if that $6 million grows >> 100% Yeah. >> you know, 20% like last year the market was up 24%, right? So if it's sitting in just S&P 500 so that'd be

uh 1.2 million next year that he got back and it's all tax-free. Mhm. Yeah.

>> And the sooner you get tax-free started the sooner it benefits you. So I think I'm going to want to do it now.

I got to I got to crunch the numbers a little bit more but I think I'm going to want to do it now.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on the show, we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Teresa is with us in Washington, D.C. Hi

Teresa, how are you?

Hi Rachel. Hi Dave. Um so my husband and

I are in baby step three and um I want to spend $400 on a new kitchen

appliance.

Um and my husband and I talked about it.

He's listening right now. Hi my love. Um Hi Teresa's husband. >> if it was a good idea or not.

Um okay, how much do you guys have saved?

We have $1,800 right now in our in our

savings account. And we have the cash in our checking account to cover it just fine. Okay. And what's the fully what's the goal for the 3 months?

What is this emergency fund? How like 1,800 to what? >> that we needed to write down a number for that. Um we only just finished baby step two. Um Okay.

>> Probably around 20,000. And what's your household income?

Uh about 50,000. 50,000.

Okay. Yes. All right. Hopefully that will be increasing soon, but Like why? And how much?

Um changing jobs and changing career situations. Okay. Um Yeah. So how much how much do you think it'll change?

Um I don't know. We would have to start before we could predict that. Okay. All right.

Um What's the appliance? I'm just curious.

It's a flour mill.

Oh. So it like mills wheat into flour.

>> Yeah. I got one I'll show you used. Um Oh. I got [laughter] a I got a 5-gallon bucket of that stuff in the in the closet from 2 years ago when Sharon had this fad. Um I promise I'll use it. I promise.

>> she said. Um >> [laughter] >> I I believe you will.

I will. I promise.

>> It's all It's all healthy, too. It's all healthy. Are they They don't let any of the little glutens in [laughter] it, you know. There's no little glutens and no low covids. So yeah, it's all It's all covid and gluten-free.

Oh my gosh. You people. [laughter] >> Teresa, you should have called Sharon.

Yeah. You should have called Sharon. Put her on. Put her on. I know. I know. I'm going to represent her. I'm serious. I'm going to go home and get the thing before she gets home and send it to you.

Um You should. That actually [laughter] would be a great That would be so funny.

And Sharon wouldn't miss it cuz she hasn't She wouldn't even She She would not She wouldn't know it's gone. >> That would be funny. People like 8 months from now she'll be going, "Hey, where's my Where's my little bread thing?" >> Give your address to Kelly. Gave it to a lady in Washington D.C. There was more deserving. >> I'll go I'll sneak it for you, Teresa.

So, here's the thing. Here's the thing. The thing that we always have to manage when we're managing these decisions is not the actual little issue of 400 bucks, but what it represents in our behavior,

in our standards, and in who we are,

okay? And so, you know, what Sharon and I would have said when we were at your place is we would have said, "If this isn't an emergency, we can't do it because we don't yet have an emergency fund." Mhm. And um and it is very odd that I actually own one of those things, but um >> long did it take y'all to get out of debt, Teresa? How long were y'all doing baby step two?

Four years. Ugh, I know. See, >> Almost to the day, actually.

>> So much sacrifice.

>> but it's just that the point is that you have to have your filter system that says, >> Yes, you do. >> "I'm going to make my decisions based on this set of fr- on this framework. Yes. And on this value system.

And so, you know, the you've been using the baby steps as your as your framework for making the decisions, and it would say that this is not an emergency, don't do it. Although, mathematically, it's not that big a deal. Mhm. >> Like you guys could and you're going to be fine.

>> you could do a lot of stuff that people could do, but >> but you don't want it to derail you is what you're saying in the The thing is, I don't I don't want to I just don't you you you've reset the way your brains work on money in a positive way, and this this this messes it up. I mean, this is falling off the wagon.

Yeah, for sure. >> They're not going into debt for it, though. >> No, but I mean, they're they're they're not going to make the decision through that framework. I wouldn't do it.

I would not buy it um because you know, it's not an emergency. It's not an emergency. And you don't have your an fund, and so you should not be buying luxury items that aren't an emergency. for four It's not $4,000. It's $400. It's not $400,000 either. It doesn't matter. But I'm saying for for four years of their lives they've been sacrificing to get out of debt, okay? And then we always say when you get out of debt >> have a tie. Rachel says buy, I say don't. I've got one in the closet.

>> Oh, no, there's Hold on, we have some audience. Who's a yes? >> The audience is saying don't buy.

>> Oh, no. Oh, I got one yes. Oh, no. >> I've got one thumbs up. Got a bunch of thumbs down. >> a lot of thumbs up. >> Audience participation. Rachel, you're losing. Shoot. You're losing. You're you're you're so kind and gentle.

>> that I'm kind and gentle. It's that I like the hard work and the exhaustion of what they've gone through. >> I need I need I need a homemade bread machine. Listen, [laughter] I'm telling you. >> That's what all this hard work was for.

>> Listen, I don't do it, but people that do it They don't. They put it in their closet. >> They They do They [laughter] love it.

You can stop yourself.

>> personally.

Shoot. I wish this was something that

>> pancakes and muffins galore for about a

90 days. HAVEN'T SEEN THEM SINCE.

>> [laughter]

>> OH, MAN. >> THE enthusiasm Oh. on the latest health

fad. Man. Yeah. I Teresa, it's fine.

That's fine. We're We're not making fun of you. We're making fun of me, okay?

But >> It's not a need. It's It's not You know, so if your emergency fund was completed and you could put it in the budget, yes.

Your emergency fund isn't completed, I wouldn't do it. I also wouldn't upgrade your couch for $400. I wouldn't upgrade your anything else for $400. It's not an emergency until you get this done. We stay Gazelle Intense until we finish baby step three. And that's what will get you to where you want to be. You've lived like no one else so that later you can live like no one else and buy a bread maker. Buy a mill. It's a mill. It's a mill.

You mill your own grain.

Yeah, I don't even want to ask questions cuz I don't want to I'm so not in >> You're going to have to get your mom to get it out and show you. I know I will on Easter. >> give it to you. You never know. I'd give it to Teresa. You might need it. Well, you could get Teresa's address and just ship it on over there, huh? Get it just in case.

Yeah, that's that's funny. And it the grain I it's like a 5-gallon bucket of paint. It's a 5-gallon bucket plastic bucket full of grain in the closet.

>> And the grain it's not like >> It's like grain. It's like grain. Like you went out in the field and picked the grain. You know, it's like Like the like the stem? It no, it's the seed.

>> seed of the grain. Yeah, it's grain.

Yeah. It's real. I mean it's but it and it's apparently pretty dormant cuz it's been sitting there a while, so. >> [laughter]

>> Oh, man.

It's so hard when that thing comes up.

>> And this is first world problems on steroids, right? >> when it is when people are very passionate about it and it's like they're For a minute for a minute they are. They're there and this is what they This is what they do, you know?

Um We definitely got the fever for it for a minute. >> Cuz I bet she does sourdough. I bet she makes sourdough with it, right? Can you do that or is that different? >> No, that's a feeder. Sourdough's a feeder. Yeah, shoot. Okay, I'm going to stop. I'm terrible at this stuff. Yeah.

>> [laughter] >> Oh, Teresa.

It's fun. It's not going to kill you if you do it but it but you but but if you're if you're calling us to break the tie between you and your husband Rachel's on your husband's side and no one else is. I mean Rachel's on your side and everybody else is on your husband's side. But we do say sometimes to to families that have come all the way down in a debt-free scream like well, what are you going to do now that you're debt-free?

You know what I mean? Like we do ask that.

Well, I'm just saying the idea of getting past baby step two is an event.

It is a thing and so if there's something that is reasonable you can pay cash for that you're like, okay, yes, we're saving up the emergency on all but in the checking account we have this, and I can do a little splurge to like celebrate that we're debt-free.

I don't know. Yeah.

Yeah. You got, you know, you have a tie on the air and off the air or you lose, you know.

The audi- the au- audience is not with you. I'm trying.

>> [laughter] >> Trying, Teresa. Oh, Teresa, that's fun. I I would have guessed wrong. I thought she was going to buy the uh the $400 expensive blender, the Vitamix.

>> Oh, the Vitamix. I don't know if that's $400. >> That's about $400. I'll say we got an air fryer.

Okay. >> That's pretty life-changing. It wasn't $400, but it's pretty great. Okay.

Well, there you go. Well, that's a that's a kitchen uh yeah, the kitchen When we When we I remember when I was a kid and we moved and we had a box that said on the side of it seldom used kitchen appliances. James, I bet y'all have a mill. >> you need to be a minimalist.

James, do you have a mill? Not yet, but it's probably going to happen soon. >> Okay, yeah.

>> [music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey trusted pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at

ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

>> Scripture of the day, Luke 11:9-10.

So, I say to you, ask and it'll be given to you, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be open to you. For everyone who asks receives, the one who seeks finds, and the one who knocks, the door will be open. Tony Robbins says successful people ask better questions, and as a result they get better answers.

So, question.

It's April Fools' Day when we're recording this. This is April the 1st. >> do a thing. You were? Okay.

And I'm just wondering if the bread making thing was an April Fools' joke.

>> I was going to be like, "Guys, during the break, Dave Ramsey loves taxes." And

he just wants to pay more. I want to pay more in taxes. >> Yeah. I'm like, "Hey." I'm a closet liberal. Or you show me your credit card or something, you know what I mean? That could be a good April Fools' April Fools' joke. >> would believe that. >> [laughter] >> It's not even It's not even It won't work. >> have told you I applied I don't know. I should have I should have come up with something. >> telling what you what you might have done, but >> today, America, that I missed out on.

So, I apologize. Well, I think the bread maker thing was a complete I think that lady was a complete >> No, it what No, Teresa wanted a bread maker. >> She really did. >> it. >> All right. A a meal. She wanted a meal.

Okay. Lisa, we'll see if Lisa's in here.

>> have got punked there. No. But I may have thrown my wife under the bus, which is something I don't do on the air, [laughter] too. So, that's not good, but you know. You'll have to apologize later.

That's the problem. Lisa in Springfield.

Hey, Lisa, what's up?

Hi. Um first I want to say thank you because if it hadn't been for me listening to you for the last, I don't know, decade or so, I would be in a much worse situation than I am now.

Um I am trying to figure out where to start.

I'm a little overwhelmed with my finances. It's not bad.

Um so Um my husband and I have listened to you for a long time. We had Xander insurance and um the only thing I regret is that I didn't up it when his pay was up because he probably doubled his pay by the time by when we first signed up for it and then he died on our vacation in an accident. Oh, wow.

>> Um this past summer. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Oh, my. And so we are baby step

millionaires. We're in good shape. So I had some life insurance.

I have a business that started as a hobby. I home school my three kids and I started my business while home schooling my kids and I am very good at what I do,

but not necessarily good at all the stuff that comes with business that you don't you don't know about until you're like in the middle of it and then you're like, oh, you're supposed to do this. Oh, you're supposed to do that. So I've been untangling that, but it was never a priority between home schooling, running a farm, and my husband made a very good income. We have no debt. Our home's paid off. Um It didn't matter. Mine was like a lucrative side hustle. Mhm. Now I lost

his income, the insurance, the health insurance. And all I have is my side

hustle and I I don't want to just burn through our life insurance money.

How much life insurance money did you get? Um 800,000. Okay, and everything's paid for. Were there other investments?

>> off I used some of that because I have an investment house that I owed 120 on,

um which I totally regretted taking out that loan after I did it. We cash flowed it total remodel of it, um but I used some of that life insurance. So I have like six or 700,000 I think in cash and

then a million in 401(k)s, but I'm only 50, so I can't touch any of that. >> Mhm. Okay.

Um my business like I've been overwhelmed.

I've not been doing a great job taking care of my business. Luckily, I have some great employees.

Um and I've always needed to get it a little more under control, but between homeschooling and

everything else, it just was never a priority. It felt too overwhelming.

Um well, one of them's engaged to be married. She's going to be 21 in a few weeks and then 17 14. They were Yeah, 17

14 boys. And so, what happened to the

700,000? Where is it?

So, I I got a Smart Vestor Pro Good. to

help me put together all the investments. So, right now he's got it in a mutual fund. There's like 600, I think and I have like $100,000 in my bank account, which I didn't realize how And so bad my And so, what

does it take you a month to live? What's your That's my problem. I don't even know. Like at first I was like we're just going to breathe. We've got money. We're going to and now I'm starting now 8 months in. I'm like, okay, we've got to figure it out and I don't hardly even know where to begin. I know it sounds terrible, but I've never actually budgeted. I only did it in my head and kept a running total and we've always lived so far below our means that it was >> Well, let's start.

What do you need in food? What do you need in food a month?

I I don't even know.

>> Oh, yeah, you do. Tell me what you need in food.

And then minus maybe You got two you have two teenagers and you.

No, $400 is not enough.

You probably spend two to three a week, do you think? On groceries? Maybe.

Maybe. I don't Yeah, I don't know. Okay, so you need 800, all right. And you don't have a house payment. And how much does your electric bill run?

Well, when it's real high, it's about 1,400. Okay. And how much is your water

bill? It's on well, right?

Yes, I don't have a water bill. Good. Okay. Do you have a gas bill?

Um No, only on the rental house and the rental property. house is a separate issue. I'm asking what takes to operate your home.

>> Okay. Okay, rental house will support itself. It's got a renter in it, doesn't it? Yeah, it's a short-term rental. >> Good. Okay. And so you just begin to ask questions like I was asking you and you fill out the form on every dollar in the budgeting app and you will look up and see how much you've got. And so I I think your 600,000 can create $60,000 a

year pretty easy.

And I think you might be able to live on that. And then your business will create some more. I'm trying to untangle my business because some of it, like my Venmo and my PayPal, that's how my clients pay me.

Sometimes I use it for personal, but mostly I use it for business. >> to completely separate your business from your personal.

Two separate Two separate accounts. I have a personal account and a business account. Personal Venmo, business Venmo.

Personal debit card, business debit card. And don't do anything in business with the personal and don't do anything in the personal with the business. Keep them completely separate.

And then you get less confused.

>> home, it's like more of a confusing because the business is at my home.

>> confusing at all.

When something happens in your home that's business, you know what it is and you know what's not.

Put it in the business account.

If it's business, if it's not, do it out of the personal account. Where it's located doesn't matter.

What kind of business is it, Lisa?

Um raise dogs.

You what?

Raise dogs. You raise dogs?

>> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, I raise dogs.

I think I Yeah, I gross about 500,000.

Okay. What kind of dog? >> That's not what I net.

Um Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Cavalier King Charles Spaniels, and Catahoulas.

>> Okay. Yeah, this should These are expensive pups. Okay. And so >> we do all the health testing and all the >> Yeah.

And all of that is a business and you have the the cost of the breeding and the vet bills and the food and the cleanup and everything else and the cost of your staff and um and you have the income created by the sale of the dogs. None of that is at home. It happens to be on your location there at the farm, but that's all.

Make sure you don't have this $500,000 hobby. No, it it does make a profit.

>> you know?

You don't even have a set of books.

Well, I do have QuickBooks. Okay. But, what's going into that? Are you putting personal stuff in QuickBooks?

Not my I have somebody that does all that for me. We started doing that about 3 years ago. She helped me untangle everything. Well, almost everything. I'm almost there. Yeah, I think you're closer than you think. Yeah, okay. So, here's the thing. Your stress level is going to go way down when you get this cleaned up, when you get the tangles combed out of this hair.

But, there's still a few tangles left and they're and they're tied into your grief story and into this tragedy and they're adding to your pain.

And so, the cleanliness of organization, extreme organization, is going to lower

your anxiety level. >> Yeah, and stay on the line, Lisa. Kelly will pick up and we'll get you every dollar for a year to start doing just on your personal side of running your home.

>> Yeah. To start putting in those numbers.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. So, we'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, >> [music] >> and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

[music]

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## 282. Your Money Isn’t the Problem—Your Plan Is | March 4, 2026


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[music] >> Brought to you by the EveryDollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network [music] and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, number one best-selling [music] author, Ramsey personality and co-host of Smart Money Happy Hour is my [music] co-host today. Thanks for hanging out with us. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Darren and Ariel are with us in New York. Hi guys, how are you?

Okay. Thank you for having us.

>> Better than we deserve. What's up in your world?

It's such an honor to speak to you. You go, Ariel.

Well, we've read your books.

Um, we follow your plan.

However, I made some errors when I was went back

to school to obtain a degree and landed

myself in almost $300,000 of student

debt. And that's Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

I'm neither, unfortunately.

What [clears throat] are you? What what did you What degree did you get?

I'm a social worker.

For 300 grand? What do you make?

Uh, not nearly that. Um, I was My plan had been to, and this is

what I was encouraged to do by my professors, was to work for the government and do

10 years of working, you know, in a

nonprofit sector, but that hasn't worked

out. So, here I find myself and we are

calling for guidance. Yeah. What do you make now? What's your household income between you and Darren?

Well, at the moment I'm not working. We have a 6-month-old. Uh-huh.

And Darren brings in

gross 107, right? $100,000 a year? Uh uh actually, but it comes out to 5 5,000

a month. And you live in the city in in Manhattan?

No, we live in a suburb. [clears throat] Yeah, we live in the suburb of New Jersey. Okay.

We have a paid-for house, so that

Well, that's nice. Y- Yeah, that Yeah, that that really it it helps.

>> What is it worth?

It's about 450. Yeah. And Darren, what do you do for a living?

I work for the government.

As I I have a Yeah, I work for um at

data analytics for the Department of Health. Okay. Cool. Cool.

Okay. And how long have you been doing that?

25 years. We're We're We're older. I'm I'm 50. My wife is 40, so it's We

We got married a few 3 years ago, and we have a a 6-month-old, and

you know, we want to pay this off in our lifetime, and we know you have a very practical advice, so, you know, that's why why we called. >> mean, what I always reach for is the basic sixth-grade math, right? Which is

there's two sides, income and outgo.

We've got a big hole, which is 300 grand. We've got a medium-sized shovel, which is 107.

Until you drop it into New Jersey, and that makes it a small shovel.

And um and a brand-new baby. And so, I'm starting to look, you know, where can we get income up and outgo down to throw the difference at this 300.

>> works Right, my husband works a second part-time job. And as I said, I also have a disability, so for me in New Jersey, drive I can't drive.

So, that's also part of the equation, where I was at my last couple of jobs I

was getting a negative return, which is

why I didn't go back after the baby was born. And what's the nature of your disability, huh?

Um, I had well, I have a seizure disorder which prevents me from driving.

>> Yeah, okay. All right. All right. That's >> [snorts] >> That's reality. Okay.

Wow. Okay, so you know, if I'm looking at your situation through your eyes for a second, um, I'm saying the more money we

can make, the faster we get out of this and that involves Darren maximizing his career and Ariel maximizing her career.

What is the most money we can possibly make? Does that involve a move? Does it involve the fact that data analytics is a very hot field and you might be worth 200k in the open market if you got away from the government.

It's a very hot field. And so, um, I'm

I'm just looking at all of those ideas.

>> With your current take home pay, this is going to take you 7 to 10 years. So, that's the issue here is the napkin math says you can throw 50 grand at this, it's done in 6 years.

But 50 grand is, you know, 4 grand a month and you're taking home five. >> have that You don't have Exactly. So, I'm just showing you the the length it will be shortened to a Dave's point if you can make more. And that might mean if Ariel can go make 70 grand as a social worker, it might be worth, you know, finding child care even if it costs you 30 so that you can get out of this faster.

Right. So, I I've never like unfortunately I'm provisionally licensed, you know, life etc. And

finding supervision having unfortunate

people Yeah, I I don't I don't know all the obstacles. You've got a lot of them.

But what I do know what I do know is is you need more income.

For sure, and I was looking into possibilities. I've been working freelance doing other things outside my field to try to bring in some income,

but unfortunately, freelance work has not been I mean, I've made money, but not nearly enough. Yeah, yeah, I hear you. So, I think you both have to sit down and do some soul searching about where we work, where can we work to make the most money to clean this up cuz it's not going away. You figured that part out.

That's why you called. And it goes away when you pay it off. And so, where we work and where we live.

And um >> [clears throat] >> those are the things that will impact this. Where we live has to do with cost of living, has to do with accessibility to jobs. This might be the perfect place. I don't know. You might find a place right around the corner that pays him 250 and a place right around the corner that pays you 100 in some other field even. I don't care. But if we suddenly go from 100 to 300, oh, ding

ding, we can knock this out and >> 2 years more than 2 or 3 years.

And that starts to get there. But it's going to require some kind of pretty dramatic shifts in your all's career tracks because the ones that you're on, uh you're going to be there a long time and it's going to be it's not going to be fun. Which which is why you called. It just breaks my heart to hear that any school is charging $300,000 for a degree in social work that might net you 50 grand a year.

Yeah. The math on that uh the ROI of some of these degrees is just not there.

And so, it starts with being very careful of where you go to school, why are you going to school? And I would just get the cheapest degree that allows me to do the work that I want to do.

Yeah, exactly. And um but I mean, that

that's how we That's if we could have talked to Ariel 10 years ago, you know.

>> turn back time. If we could turn back time. But the uh but the rest of you out there, take a lesson. So, actually study what the degree costs. Is there other ways I can get it? Other places I can get it? Because, you know, this is the job market for this degree.

And it's just horrible. You're right, George. It's highway robbery. And it's laughable that her professors of course they got a degree in social work. So, what do they know? You know, that their only out is you go take a job with the government, work there 10 years, and it'll that'll be forgiven.

But of course they don't even know how that works. Cuz they didn't do that. But uh They shouldn't be giving financial advice.

No, they shouldn't be giving any advice, which begs the begs the question why are they doing social work? But there you go.

Uh man, I'm sorry you guys are in this, but it is truly a income outgo flex on the equation. That's what it takes. That's what's going to take.

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>> [music] >> Maggie is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

Hey Maggie, how are you?

I am good. How are y'all? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Okay, so my husband and I have found ourselves in kind of an interesting position where we differ in opinion at

baseline on which route to take. So, we

have a condo in California, and we are

currently renting it out. It's not on the market for sale, but our tenants

have expressed interest in purchasing it from us, um because they are looking for

a home to buy. Um now, >> we are it it is worth between 375 to 399. Okay.

All right. Um so, we are not financially

free. We're currently in baby step number two, nor are we currently receiving an ROI on our rental yet. Um

so, we wanted to know is our best overall path to sell this place, or should we keep renting it out? Yeah. Well, I can tell which you want which one you want to do. >> [laughter] >> Oh, yeah. >> And you're And by the way, you're right.

Uh you're right. You win the argument. So, let's talk about this for a second.

If in your situa- What do you owe on the condo?

Um we owe 309. Okay. So,

>> So, let's pretend that you didn't own this condo. And you had a $100,000 stacked in the middle of your kitchen table.

And you said, "Okay, honey,

we should go buy a condo in California and put $100,000 down and that won't rent for enough to pay the payment." Both of you would look at each other like you got one eye in the center of your head and say, "That's the dumbest idea I've ever heard."

Right? Right. I I agree. >> not buy this condo as a rental.

It's a leftover from a former life before you moved to Sou- Sioux Falls, isn't it?

That is correct. Yeah, it was not >> Cuz nobody would do this on purpose.

Right. >> going to buy a $400,000 condo, you wouldn't buy it in California when you live in Sou- Sioux Falls, you buy it in Sioux Falls.

Right. >> And you would buy one that actually did gave you an ROI. So, there's just so much about this. There's like six great reasons to sell this and none to keep it. Long-distance landlords that are losing money. Nothing about this sounds fun to me to keep around as a toy.

Right. So, why does he want to keep it?

He thinks real estate's the answer to all your riches.

But he thinks that in time the return on

investment will be worth it.

>> Nope. And I understand that

you know, renting but the market in California with rent is California is the problem for me because the market

there even for landlords and renting is it's terrible. Mhm. Um and but he thinks that property value is

just going to go up and there's always going to be renters wanting to rent it.

>> Property values in real estate do not go up fast enough to offset a bad idea.

Uh yeah. And this is a bad idea. I love

real estate. The larger portion of my net worth is real estate. So, I'm big on real estate. I want you to own real estate. But, this real estate that you don't own this real estate, it owns you.

Right. >> This is a crappy situation. Yeah, sell it sell it sell it sell it. You win the argument Maggie, but you even knew that before you called.

I did but you know and I mean I it and it's not a haha I win you lose

>> No, I'm not saying that and you're not even >> I agree and and and because I mean I agree you know what >> I want you guys to get out of that.

Yeah, get out of that. Build you a big old pile of money, pay off your house and with your next pile of money if you want to go buy a nice condo there in Sioux Falls. Sioux Falls is a great market. Go buy a nice condo in there and pay cash for it and watch it go up in value and you'll make money every month and yeah, then real estate is a good investment. But, right now you got freaking consumer debt.

And this thing barely breaks even if everything works perfect.

Yeah, and that yeah, that's if everything works perfect. >> doesn't. >> of handed a handed a nice little um

out of left field type of situation >> out of jail free card. actually want to buy it. Will they buy it at the market value?

Uh we haven't well, this is super [clears throat] early in the conversation. Um but they're what we

were told was that their um

their looking price is well over, you

know, what the condo is worth on the market. >> Right. Okay, so here's the thing.

I love real estate and I'm telling you this is a bad deal.

I would get out of it if it was me.

Number one, I don't do long-distance landlording. The most of the time people get into that it's by default, not by plan, and that's how you got into it.

Number two, the thing is not ROI-ing.

Number three, you would never buy it again if you didn't own it today.

If you had this amount of money piled on the kitchen table, you would never go do this deal, not in a million years.

No sane person would.

It's a bad deal.

And so sell it, sell it, sell it. If this renter doesn't buy it, put it on the market and sell it anyway.

Get rid of it. And number four, you guys have a bunch of debt to pay off. And so you need this money to clean up the mess. So how much debt have you got?

Yes. So total >> Not counting your house.

Not counting my house, 108.

Oddly enough, you're debt-free.

Yeah, that's what I was like, we could, you know, if we sell this place And that's like $4,000 a month in payments.

Yeah. You talk about an ROI, $4,000 a

month in payments.

How long ago did you move out of this condo?

Um we moved out in the summer, July. Oh,

good. So you can still take uh personal residence no capital gain on it. Right. It hasn't been Yeah, it hasn't been a rental for that long.

>> Right. You got to get rid of You need to get rid of it before you lose that capital gains right.

Okay. Yeah, cuz you could take all this money that you can get on the table and pay zero taxes and throw it all at your debt and have a $4,000 a month change in position. This is This is a no-brainer.

That ROI is much faster.

>> Maggie, I'm right, but Maggie, haha, you are You're right. I mean, my gosh. I guess her hope is to play it back and she gets to say, "Well, Dave said." Well, and George said. I don't know if that's going to work, but >> All of America said. I mean, there's the math says. It doesn't even matter what my opinion is. What matters is the math.

This is just dumb math.

It's dumb. You would never put $100,000 in an investment in a three states over

that breaks even.

And and if something breaks, you go in the hole. Wow, you have $100,000 in consumer debt.

It's almost as if you borrowed money on a credit card and a car to go buy this condo. That's the way the balance sheet looks.

Crazy. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it. You get rid of it. Bethany's in Salem, Oregon. Hey, Bethany.

Hi. How can we help?

I'm just looking for ideas for um

something I can do from home. I'm a full-time stay-at-home mom and wife of a four-month-old and just needing some extra income for some different things.

And with the money if you guys have any ideas to throw at me that I could try.

George has got much better ones than I do. Yeah, are you looking for something completely remote that you can do during nap times, that kind of thing?

Well, she If she's taking a nap, she's not working. Well, you're not you.

That baby. So, here's the problem.

Everybody wants the remote job they can do from the couch in their spare time.

But, the thing is the stuff that actually makes money I can keep my baby here and my husband works remote, too, upstairs. Okay.

>> the two of us, like the baby can be between us doing something or not What was your What was your former career?

I did CNA for about 4 years.

Okay, is there not some telemed stuff

that's pretty lucrative?

Telemed?

I haven't looked into that too much. The few things I've tried looking remotely as I've researched a few things I don't have enough experience at the resources I've looked into or I don't have enough degree cuz I don't have any college like formal education or anything. I just have my CNA license and the different places I've x amount of years of you know, working or they want this degree plus this or different options. So it's been kind of So if you can't work as a CNA remotely, you're going to have to shift completely to something else, which would be like virtual assisting, consulting, bookkeeping.

>> totally fine with taking up new skills. My my caveat is that I can't find someone that will take me on board. >> we've got a side hustle quiz to help you out. Go to ramseysolutions.com/sidehustle.

It'll start to give you some ideas on things you could do and I would try a few.

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Play. Courtney in Seattle, hi Courtney, how are you?

Hi, good. Thank you.

Good. How can we help?

Um thank you for taking my call. Um my husband and I are on baby step two and we have $86,000 in debt that will be paid off next year.

Um my husband is almost 40 and is worried about the fact that we only have a pension right now towards retirement.

Um at our age, how hardcore do we go towards retirement once our debt is paid off? And so do we still do uh the 15%

even though he has that pension?

>> putting money in retirement 2 years ago, right? No, we have not been able to put anything except we just have the pension. >> just after you start working on the debt, then you decide to worry about retirement?

That's weird.

I I agree. Okay. Yeah, so I mean that's not logical.

And And here's the thing, we're talking about 1 year.

You guys are going to be multi-millionaires if you follow this process through. You're not 60, you're 40. You got another 25 years at least of a working career.

That's plenty of time to build wealth, especially if you're debt free. Think about how how much margin that will free up for the rest of your life. >> Hey, put Have him, you and him get on the Ramsey Solutions website. Jump on the calculator for retirement.

And put in 15% of your household income.

What's your household income?

Um this year we just got both got good raises. This year it'll be 200, but he's actually getting another >> $30,000, $2,500 $30,000, $2,500 a month

for 20 years.

And so that that means you're going to start in 2 years, right? So it's 65

you that's 20 years from 45 to 65, right? $2,500 a month in good growth stock mutual funds. We suggest you put it in four types: growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. You've probably heard all this.

Mhm. Yeah. And when you invest in that, put that in the calculator, and you're going to see 2 and 1/2 million dollars.

Wow, okay. That makes it so much >> That's if you start a year from now. Yeah, that's if you if you wait until you're 45 years old because you followed this process and got out of debt. And guess what? You can't put $2,500 away right now cuz you got 86,000 freaking dollars in debt sucking the bone marrow out of your life.

Right. Yeah, so let's get let's get the patient healed, and then let's turn the office on.

Okay. That makes sense? >> Thank you. That's very helpful. Yeah, I know that's that that gives me a lot of for sure. >> Cuz what most people do, Courtney, is they go, "Well, I'll put 3% my investments and I'll try to throw some at the debt." And they end up doing nothing cuz there's no progress being made. On that basis with 200,000 and

86,000, I want you debt free in under 18

months.

We will definitely. We're able to sell the truck in June when my husband gets a promotion and he gets a um he gets a work vehicle. So that will be 25,000 gone in June. Um that will be huge. I already sold my car and driving a 20-year-old Camry at this point. Um so we're definitely making progress. This is the [clears throat] first month where we're really able to shove everything we have towards it. Yeah. Um I just started working full-time as a stay-at-home mom until my youngest went to kindergarten.

So, >> Here's the thing. You're not going to only make 200k for the next 40 years.

Right. Or 20 years. 20 years. You're going to get raises.

We did that with no raises. So, you're not going to end If you follow through and do exactly what we teach you to do, get out of debt, put 15% away, save for your kids' college, get the house paid off usually in about 7 or 8 years, and then you load up on this, you're going to have between 5 and 10 million dollars. >> Then you're talking about maxing out retirement accounts, catch-up contributions after 50, and so you guys are going to be just fine if you follow through with this plan. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. We've never been so motivated as you are now.

We tried to do this multiple times, and this is the only time we've actually started to succeed. So, You're going to do it. You're going to do it. I can tell, because I can tell you're going to do it.

You You got it all over you. You're going to go do it. And I want to hear from you when you're debt-free, and I want to hear from you when you're a Baby Steps Millionaire, cuz you are on your way. Way to go. I'm proud of you. Hope is in Greenville, South Carolina. Hi, Hope. What's up?

Hi, Dave. I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help?

Awesome. So, my husband and I are going to Financial Peace University and are on Baby Step 2. We've paid off our first debt in the snowball and want to continue with gazelle intensity, but we're expecting our first child in May.

Yay!

Post-delivery. Yay! Thank you so much.

Uh we have 4.5k in the emergency fund to act as a buffer for those known bills, but not knowing the full cost is difficult to plan for. After baby, we will become a single-income family in ministry. What are some practical ways for us to approach our emergency fund and the debt snowball and also becoming a single income household after the baby is born. What do you make?

Uh current cash take home between the two of us is 55k. What do you make?

>> And I make 35 of that in cash take home.

So, you're planning on this baby being skinny.

I hope so.

>> [laughter] >> You're the breadwinner right now. He's making 20k take home.

>> by 60%.

I want you to be a stay-at-home mom, but this is not a good plan.

Cuz what you just told me is how do we live on $1,600 a month? So, part of that is my husband's job

provides us with housing and pays all of our utilities. While you live at the poverty level. >> plan. Yes.

Okay. Again, I don't know that you can do that on $1,600 and build 80 82% of America's

pastors are bi-vocational.

Mhm. They have two jobs.

Because of what we're describing here.

So, your husband's going to be taking a second job.

Okay. I don't want you living at the poverty level. That's not my dream for you. And believe me, I love pastors. I love ministry and I love people that are called to the ministry. I spent the last week with three of my favorite pastors.

They were my buddies hanging out with me. And I just love them. And I'm a big fan of everything you're doing and who you are. I'm a Christian. I support our with my ties our church and make sure that they feed their people there where we're not having people on food stamps and you guys are right there, though.

Yeah. >> And and you're you know, you're you're just getting started in the ministry, right?

Yes, sir. Yeah.

So, I think the two of you have got to talk about what God what God's call on

your life looks like while you're doing this. It does it involve you going back to work? I hope not. I don't like that one. Does it involve him taking an extra job?

Does it involve his ministry playing out in a different way for now? Because first goal is take care of your own household, not the flock.

Mhm. His first job, your first job is feed that household, that baby, and that rent. And you guys are This is tight, kiddo. This is really, really tight.

>> That doesn't factor in the debt payments cuz you guys still have a a little mess to clean up. And so that just scares me to go day one, we're going to live off 1,600 while trying to pay off debt. So, I'm not going to tell you that that's a good plan cuz it's not. Um and the blessings of the Lord have no sorrow added to them.

Mhm. So, what part of this whole thing is a blessing because I sense sorrow in the future here.

I I think there's wonderful things happening, a baby, a young marriage, a call to ministry. There's a lot of wonderful things happening, but the mind of man plans his ways, but the Lord directs his steps. So, you've got to lay out a game plan here, work like it all depends on you, and pray like it all depends on God. All right, God, I know you called me to this ministry. So, God, how are you going to fund our family?

Show me what I need to do as a work.

What what what harness do I need to put my shoulder to so that I can get this done? What tents have I got to make if we want to use the Paul analogy so that I can prepare my for my ministry? But uh you know, [music] I'm not even with pastoral housing, I'm not going to consign you to the poverty level and call that God's call on your life. I'm not going to do that.

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[music] >> Chris is in Seattle. Hi, Chris. How are you?

Hey Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? >> [music] >> Good, man. Hey, so my question is my

wife and I, we've been married for about 3 months. Um, we just bought a house uh this past weekend. Um, it at around 1.1 million outside Seattle. It's on five It's on five acres. Um, really close to our parents, close to my work. Um, Nice.

nice piece of nice piece of property that we're going to start homesteading on. Um, the thing that's on my mind is before we got married, she bought a home in Eastern Washington uh for about 500,000.

She still owes or we still owe about 350.

Um, and it's on about 38 acres of mostly forest with a nice patch pasture.

Um, it was kind of like a COVID buy for her, you know, when things got a little bit crazy. Um, she wanted a place that she could escape to.

Um, the issue is uh she there was a bad plumbing leak because of um, no heat and

burst pipes. So, now the home is uninhabitable.

Um, and it's costing us about 18 to

20,000 dollars a month. Wait a minute.

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Did she not have insurance?

Uh, that's a good question. I never I never thought about that actually. I think I think the pro- the thing is is the home is pretty run-down as it was.

Um, so they they were planning on gutting it anyway.

Um, Okay, so the value here is the 13 acres, not the lot, not the house. It's very 38

38 acres, I'm sure. >> Yes. So, you could push the house down and sell the 38 acres.

Yes. I just don't know if it's worth what she we still owe on it.

That's the problem. Well, I would find out.

Okay. So, you don't think it's Yeah, you think it's worth You don't think it's worth keeping as a No.

potentially long-term investment.

>> Yeah. >> No, it's a money pit.

Mhm.

You owe $175,000. If you had $175,000,

it Let's just pretend you didn't own this and you woke up in the morning and you said, I found a place we can get for $175,000 38 acres with nothing down and

pay payments on it.

You wouldn't do that.

Sure. That's what you've got.

>> Even if you think even if we're underwater on the house right now?

You would you still try to get rid of it? >> I'm sorry, house and acreage we don't think we're underwater, do we?

Uh You don't think it's worth even 350?

It's hard I don't think so now cuz it she bought it during the craze where everyone was trying to get out of the city. Okay, you're not operating on facts, you're operating on feelings. You need to have a real estate agent go out and tell you what this piece of property will bring. Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on uh Ramsey trusted for real estate agents and have one of them go out and look at it for you and say Chris, I think we can get $210,000 for this. Chris, I think it's going to bring $110,000.

And here's why. And then based on that, you can start making some decisions on but this does not sound to me like it's something I want to own.

Mhm. The longer you hang on to it, the more money you lose cuz you said you're bleeding two grand a month.

Yeah. >> Just to hang on to >> Yeah, interest interest rates around 2%.

I don't care what the interest rate is.

Yeah. It's an alligator. It eats money.

It doesn't produce money.

Right. Yeah, right now, yeah. Yeah, right now. I mean, it's going up in value, I hope, but not lately because the house is rotting down. Now, it's full of mold and everything else.

Right. Okay.

This is You just got married. You got a wonderful house. You have a wonderful life. Don't let this be a distraction.

This money pit throw a grenade in the middle of all the good stuff you're doing.

Sure. Cut it loose. >> of sunk cost fallacy. Exactly.

>> dumping money in to hopefully get out of the other side.

Andrew's in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi Andrew, how are you?

Pretty good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um I have a CCW with and I carry

insurance for that CCW.

Um me and my wife, we are in baby step two right now, but we just learned about uh the insurance baby step in the class that we're in with our church. Mhm.

And I'm wondering, do I keep it or do I get rid of it?

Uh for the those that out there that don't know what he's talking about, it's concealed carry. Okay, and so you're carrying a firearm and you're carrying insurance in case God forbid you use the firearm and got sued, correct?

Correct. >> Yeah, okay. Um

well, the uh there are varying degrees of cost

on those things. Uh there's a couple of them that we've looked at. We actually endorsed one for a while.

Um that the cost is reasonable.

Uh there are some that the cost is unreasonable uh based on what I think you're getting for it. Um so >> I'm paying 25 bucks a month for it. All

right. And what's your household income?

Household income is about 40,000.

Okay. Uh that starts to be a lot at that point. So, what you have to ascertain is

um not whether you're going to carry or not because I think you are going to carry.

Then the question is are you going to do that without insurance?

Meaning that if God forbid something happens, you're just going to work through the consequences of that. Um or

or you hoping to have some Basically, this is lawyer insurance. It buys lawyers.

Correct. >> What it does. So, um or do you want somebody on your side? So, I don't [snorts] know what circumstances you're in and so forth. I carry every day, and I have for 35 years.

And I don't have the insurance.

Um and if it was Dave Ramsey, good god,

can you imagine the lawsuits? You know, and so my process is if something's going on, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to run instead of shoot. I'm leaving, okay?

Uh I don't I would never, you know, I I have extra mental barriers to me pulling

a firearm out beyond other people. And so um you've got to just ascertain your position in that because I'm truly I've done a bunch of training with handguns and with a bunch of people that really do know what they're doing, and um I

love it as a sport. I love it as a hobby. I love it as an American right.

All of those things.

Um but the chances of me shooting someone unless they were killing one of my family members or me would be zero.

Um and so I'm just not going to engage a situation. So that that lowers my need for insurance, you know, by by my attitude about all of that. And so you've got to decide, you know, what situations are you going to be in?

What risk are you actually taking? And

then in it making $40,000 a year, what's worth $300 a year?

And uh you got to make that call for yourself, but um I I will tell you and the CCW insurance people that know their stuff will tell you that by far the best insurance you can have is have your brain screwed in.

Uh if you're going to do this and really have done some training, and I'm serious, run away from situations. Don't Don't be,

you know, you're not freaking Wyatt Earp. And if you get that stuff dialed in, it changes the need for this

the level of need. Uh but, you know, the

people in the gun world say if you if a if a round leaves your weapon and hits someone else, whether they're guilty of something or not, it's probably a million dollars.

If it's me, it's 10 million.

Set your target. That that it'll cost me in legal fees to uh not because I'd be wrong, not because the law doesn't protect me, not because all the but it's just the stinking laws the law the lawyers and the court system are all just set up to screw people. And it's just it'd be a horrible situation. So, I got to tell you man, it's not there's very few things I'm going to invest 10 million dollars in that has a bullet coming off of it.

I mean, it's not just not going to do it.

I I mean, if I've got to really protect someone, maybe, but that's um ooh, scary. >> It's a Yeah, it's a scary scary thing to think about, but you know, the the peace of mind if 300 bucks buys you the peace of mind right now and you need that, fine. It's not going to make or break your debt payoff schedule. >> Agreed.

At 25 bucks a month. Now, if it was 100 bucks a month, making 40 K, that that is a serious amount of money. So, the goal would be can we get our income up and eventually sort of have our own insurance policy uh to help out with this and auto, home, umbrella, all of that. There's other ways you can also kind of stay protected, but outside of a firearm situation where someone sues you because of that, that's that's a different situation.

I don't know how often that happens. How many a year, but >> Yeah, I can't even imagine. It's It's almost nothing, but wow, it's a scary scary thing to think about, that's for sure.

This is the Ramsey Show.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, George here. Listen, 99 times out of 100 when people say, "I don't know where my money goes." It's not a math problem, it's a behavior problem.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author is my co-host today.

I'm Dave Ramsey. Amber is in Tulsa. Hi, Amber. How are you?

I'm good. Thank you for speaking with me today. Sure. What's up?

I have been married about 20 years and

15-ish years of that marriage, my husband was an alcoholic.

Um and he has his own business and he was able to maintain that. He is now 3 years sober. Good.

>> And Yes, thankfully.

Um and he is back on track, um but in

the midst of the chaos, we have not filed our taxes since 2020 and I'm not

even >> what chaos? He was drunk for 20 years.

When did the chaos happen?

Well, he just really was a downward spiral. It just got worse and worse. He even had a couple of DUIs.

Um so, it just kind of reached a peak.

>> So, 20 to 23 was him going to the

bottom, and 23 to now is coming back out. Yes, exactly. >> I got you. Um and now his business is thriving, and we're doing really good.

Okay. But, this is just like a looming black cloud over us because I know we have to pay the piper.

Yeah. Okay. So, the first thing to know is this, and it's very, very serious.

Failure to file income tax returns is a

federal criminal offense.

Yes.

Failure to pay taxes is not.

Okay. Yes. Okay. People do not go to jail People People do not go to jail in America for not paying taxes. They do go to jail, around 2,500 to 3,000 of them each year, for not filing.

So, we've got to get that off of you.

The number of times that the IRS prosecutes someone who comes out of the cold, off the grid, on their own

is almost zero. So, you're going to initiate this filing immediately.

Okay. I don't want them accidentally finding you in the next 30 days and really screwing up all of the positive progress you he's made in the last 3 years.

Yeah. Okay. So, go to ramseysolutions.com,

and get one of our tax ELPs, and they will help you. Typically, what happens is you need to reconstruct the last 3 years, maybe four,

and do the best you can to reconstruct those years and file those, and then all of those taxes will be due.

Okay.

I mean, that's another thing. I don't even know that during that time period he kept a very good record >> care. We have to reconstruct something.

>> Okay. Okay. The best you can do. You're going to have to pull it together cuz you need to file something.

Okay. >> Cuz they're probably not going to look at it. They're probably just going to be happy that somebody just showed up and started giving them money, okay?

Right. >> But But that's if you go to them. So, do not put this off another year.

Okay. >> Danger. Danger. Danger.

Yes, I don't want to go to jail.

Well, it's not you. It's him.

Yeah. Are you working outside the home during this time?

Um no. I'm a stay-at-home mom, but I do help him with the business. >> I know, but you There's no other tax There's no other tax bill other than the profits from the business.

No. No. >> And you're not an employee of the business?

I'm just a co-listed as a co-owner. Does he have employees?

Um he has two, but they're just 1099.

Um so, they do their own taxes and everything. >> Yeah. Okay. Well, I think you're going to find when you delve into this that they're not really 1099.

Okay. >> Because you have to meet several guidelines to be 1099 employee and I've got a feeling these guys don't. 1099 with sometimes with entrepreneurs is I just don't want to file taxes.

Right. >> to make the I'm going to make the team do it. But a 1099 is for a self-employed person. Your employees are not self-employed.

Okay. So, I don't think I you know, but you're Again, you're tax That's a minor thing, but your tax advisor can tell you about or your tax preparer can help you figure that out. But you need to get two or three I mean, three or four years with a with an a Ramsey trusted tax preparer and get it filed immediately. And then if you owe some money, you can put that on a payment plan with them and or use some money you got in the bank and just pay them.

Yeah, and I'm ready to do that. I just want to be in good standing.

What's your financial situation now? How much debt do you guys have and what's the income?

Um we don't have a ton of debt. Maybe 100 grand and that is in houses and cars

and a little bit of credit card, but we're bringing in close to 20 to 30,000 a month. >> A month net profit or gross?

Um gross. There is some like equipment purchasing and paying employees in that amount. >> Yeah. Okay. So So you're probably making five grand a month. Yeah. Yeah. So $60,000 a year. So and

I'm guessing in the bad years you might not have made anything.

Yes. So it may not be as bad as you think when you actually go to file your taxes. So that means there are not going to be much taxes on it if you didn't make much. Okay. That's what I'm hoping. Yeah. So yeah, let's just get all this pulled together and be proactive in approaching the IRS. And I make fun of them and pick on them all the time, but they're actually pretty good to work with in these situations if you come to them.

Don't wait for them to come after you.

>> don't get the men in You don't want the men in black showing up with a gun, right? But that's you know, that kind of thing. But that's yeah.

Go come in out the come in out the cold as quick as you can. Todd is in Lexington, Kentucky. Hey Todd, how are you? I'm doing great. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Uh so me and my wife we we're looking to buy a new Harley. How much? It's 50,000. Mhm. You got 50,000?

Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah, it's $50,000 Harley. And you've got 50,000 cash.

Yes, we do. >> Okay. All right. >> Yeah.

We have uh We have like 450 in retirement and and

350 about 350 cash or a little more and

uh Um I just you know, I just want to retire and like I'm looking to retire in about five years. She's already were Mhm. And I just want to be you know, just want to be smart with my money and >> Yeah, have you got any debt?

No, none. What's your household income?

Uh about 3 to 350.

Um Yeah. I I would I would buy the Harley, but I also would tune up my investments.

And make sure we're putting a a good amount cuz you're making really good money and you could really stack some cash and buy a lot of things later that you want to buy.

But right now you can afford that Harley for sure.

Okay. What kind of vehicles and and toys do you have right now?

Uh really no. I mean well, I actually do. I have do have a Harley now that's worth about 15,000. I'd probably just sell outright. And then we have a paid off 23 Tahoe and a paid off

22 Silverado pickup. And then I have a vehicle that I use for my business. I just I I work a

full-time job for the federal government. I'm an electrical inspector on the side and you know, I also build houses and sell >> that your motorcycle's going to be your most expensive vehicle now?

Right. >> Your toy. Yeah. Your toy is worth more than your other cars that you drive every day.

>> Yeah, that's that's what that's that's one of my I mean that's what And it's going to be worth 15 grand when you go to sell it. So just know that going into it. You're going to lose the money, but you've got the money to burn it. Okay, you got the money to enjoy it. And it's not out of line. Um

I I I might have pause in doing it, but it's not out of line. It's not a it's not a you know, you're not too broke to do it.

But I want you to sit down with a smart investor pro and make sure all of your money is invested. If you're making 350, you should have more money stacked than what you've got stacked.

So I want you to increase your investment goals so that you have got millions later to do stuff with.

>> [music]

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>> [music]

>> Megan is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi Megan, how are you?

Good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Love it. I was hoping to get I was hoping to hear you say that. That's awesome. I've been listening to you guys for years. Um so, I'm just wondering how it is possible to go from surviving to thriving with a disabled husband.

What's the nature of a of his disability?

Um he uh since he was 19, he has chronic pancreatitis with all kinds of complications that have resulted as um as a result of that uh multiple surgeries and all kinds of things over the years. Um just making it where he's completely unable to work um you know, reliably. Um

it happened when he was uh 19, he went in for a surgery and came out with um came out with an acute bout of pancreatitis and it's just been downhill ever since then. Wow.

Okay. And what do you do?

Um I am a human resources manager. Mhm.

And what do you make?

Um right now, about take home about 3196

per month. Okay. All right. How many kids have you all got?

We have three. We have a 15-year-old, an 11-month-old, and a 2-year-old. Cool.

How much debt have you got not counting your house?

Um only about $1600. That's [laughter] good. Good.

Yeah. That's a good that's a good basis to start from. Well, obviously um

surviving to thriving is an income issue and an outgo issue. If you spend everything you make, it doesn't matter if you make a lot. And if you uh don't

make anything, that's going to be tough, right? So, is it easier to thrive on 36,000 or 336,000? Well,

obviously 336,000, right? So, how old

are you guys?

Um we'll both be 40 this year. Okay. All right. >> [clears throat] >> So, there's an old book, probably really old. I'm not even sure if you can find it anymore, but I'm more about the thesis of the book than the book. It's called What Color Is Your Parachute?

And the book had in it a ton of

stories of people who were overcomers

um and created incomes in spite of physical

and even mental disabilities.

And um the uh the thing that I took away from it was two things. One is a lot of these people, your husband in this case, um found a way to found a work around

to be an entrepreneur and own their own business. And that enabled them to um

take the downtime that they had to have because of the physical limitations.

>> [snorts] >> Okay? But the interesting thing about entrepreneurs is that um ADHD and dyslexia occurs about eight times

more often among entrepreneurs than it does the general public. Meaning this,

that uh people with ADHD or dyslexia or any kind

of limitation learn their whole life is about a work around. Mhm. And oddly enough, that's what business is all about.

Yeah. The definition of an entrepreneur is find a need and fill it. It's a work around. We got to find a new way to do an old thing or a new way to do a new thing and figure out a way to do that in spite of all these people and things and crap coming at us. Those of us that start and run businesses, right? >> [snorts] >> So, that's what he um because his

mental toughness to deal with the

medical limitations that he's had will actually work in his favor to start a business versus someone who's perf- perfectly healthy. Cuz he's already got calluses on his brain in this area. Does that make sense? Very much, yeah. So, to me that's encouraging. So, I'm going to start thinking about what he can do uh as a as a business and, you know, how can he delegate some of the things, hire employees, and get somebody to do that he's not able to do.

Uh where can we start? Out of the garage? Uh obviously, it's not going to be something that's physically taxing on him. Uh but, it does have to be something that can come and go. Cuz he needs to have some down days, some down hours.

Um yeah. He can't work a 9:00 to 5:00.

Right, right, yeah, not reliably. >> Right, right. And you don't want to set up a business that requires him to be present 9:00 to 5:00.

That's what I mean by a work around. So, anyway, I I I'm going to encourage him to find a way to create maybe the most money you guys have ever seen in your life if he happens to strike gold with this. And [snorts] Yeah. kind of come at that with that attitude. And really, the same thing for you. Uh you're a human resource manager?

Mhm. And you make $30,000 $40,000 a year?

Well, I do I do have um some retirement coming out of that, and I do have um like one small insurance coming out of that. So, there's a little bit coming out. Yeah, but you're not making much money for HR manager.

Not really, and honestly not for the area that I'm in, either. Um the reason that I'm still here is because the people are really wonderful, and um Honey, your family needs money. I don't give a crap how wonderful they are. We'll we'll find wonderful people elsewhere. Right now, we need to double the pay pay you twice as much.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. >> got a few levers to pull on here. If he can get something going, you can increase your income. Now, we've got some serious margin, cuz right now, your expenses are probably three grand a month. That's what you're taking home. So, it's going right back out to the bills. It really is, yeah.

Cuz it seems like we like start to build up a few hundred dollars in an emergency fund, and then it all goes away and then we have to kind of start back over from scratch like every month. So it was just we're just not getting anywhere. That's why I've been putting a little bit more into that retirement cuz I was just terrified like what if we get to 60 and have nothing to show for it, you know?

Well, right now you're doing five good things at once and you're not making progress. You're trying to pay off that 1,600 bucks in debt, you're trying to throw some at savings, you're trying to invest. I would just focus on one thing at a time. And for you guys, that's a thousand dollars starter emergency fund.

So my assignment for him is I want him to start a business that in the first year makes 50,000 profit and the second year makes 100,000 profit. My assignment to you is go find a job that doubles your income.

Okay. Yeah, I think we're going to have to do that cuz And I think those are doable.

They're doable. I believe in you.

Yep. Okay. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And you call us back as you're going on this fight now and we'll help you. Hang on, I'm going to send you a call a a book called Building a Business You Love. It's my latest number one best seller.

It's how to start and run a business and we'll help him with that.

>> [snorts] >> But So George, when I first found that statistic that dyslexia in particular is I forget the number. It's way more prevalent among entrepreneurs than business owners

than the general public like light years. Wow. Uh like 30 times or something. It's crazy. I can't remember the number but it's just mind-blowing.

And and then as we sat and talked about it and thought about it and I talked to a couple guys that got dyslexia that cuz we work with 10,000 small businesses in entre leadership and they're like, "Hey man, my whole life's a work around." Everything I do I have to figure out a way to do overcome do stuff do overcome an obstacle that is just normal for you other people and y'all are just lazy and so I go get it, you know?

>> [snorts] >> And he goes, "So it's it's natural to me." And he was making a lot of money.

He's running a big business.

But [snorts] he said reading is a is a challenge. He goes, "I'm really glad you put stuff on audiobook, you know, cuz but he goes it's a workaround. What's the you know, what how are we going to do this in any way?" And my whole

spirit has been reformed with a recognition that I have to do things differently than the average person and that is a secret superpower in business.

There's a grit to that. Oh, there's a grit to it and there's a there's a part of your brain that functions um to create workarounds that no one else has. You know, I don't have to do the workarounds he has to do.

I can just walk up to it and touch it, you know, but he has to go around the barn three times. And so, it's a but

it's there's a lot of data coming out on this that that's a lot of the reason for the successes, the number of people that are you know, on the functioning into the autism spectrum and so forth. And so, um

it's it's it's interesting to me that what is perceived as a disability is an ability. Mhm. There's opportunity there. There's opportunity there and so, to me that's really encouraging. I've never faced something like that personally. Um play face plenty of other

challenges and stupid butt stuff I've done to myself, but but I but it's when I meet people like that that are like they they bust through whatever it is and become a big deal. You know.

>> Our friend John O'Leary that was burned heavily as a child and the movie just came out Man on Fire and he's just um

he's created an entire career out of telling people they can do something. >> Using his story. Inspiring.

>> using his story.

>> [music]

[music]

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All right, not with us. Hey, David is in Los Angeles.

Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. Sure, how can I help?

Uh wanted to ask a question. My wife and I have been given an opportunity to move to Alaska for a job that sounds like it's going to be a much better for our family in terms of time getting to spend time together.

But I'm a little nervous because it's technically a title lower than the one I'm currently worth. I'm wanting to make sure I'm not giving up too much opportunity, but also want to improve my family's life in the immediate situation. So trying to get a little guidance on that.

What what is your field? What's the Why does title matter?

Yeah, so I I'm a marriage and family therapist and I'm currently working as a clinical director at a treatment center down here.

Mhm. What's the new title?

So the new title would be a clinical manager rather than clinical director. It does come with a little bit of a pay raise.

Uh about $6,000 a year, so nothing too crazy. Um but just want to make sure that, you know, I I don't know if it's a horrible idea to be taking a lower title in the the long run. >> Well, isn't your Is your cost of living going to be much lower in Alaska versus LA?

So it is. Essentially, we would be able to to live for a bit cheaper out there

and we'd be making more money. So on Plus less taxes. >> like a no-brainer. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Well, it's cold it's cold though.

It's definitely cold. Winter will be a little different. And there's bears.

Yeah. But there are a whole bunch of bears.

>> [laughter] >> Uh so

I am not an expert on the clinical

field. I wish Dr. John Delony was sitting here with me. Sorry, George. And he has he has a PhD in counseling and he knows all those people and knows all that stuff. My perspective looking in from the outside as a layman is I don't think there's two people on the planet that will notice your title change.

I don't think it matters.

Um Okay. I've got I mean Henry Cloud is one of my best friends. He's a clinical guy, one of the most famous in the world, and others I've known in that world cuz we've been around that world for 30 years because we deal with so much mental issues around money stuff.

So we're become friends with that world, and I have never uh in in 35 years I've never had the occasion to go, "Oh, that guy is a manager, not a director." Um you know, and he runs the dadgum place or he doesn't run the dadgum place. That's the way I look at it. So that's an outsider outside the industry looking in. So I'm not sure how valuable my opinion is, but I personally have never been someone that collects titles. I collect the ability to get things done and get paid for it.

And so it sounds like that's what you're doing. You're being a little bit more utilitarian rather than esoteric, right?

That's true. Yeah. Are the responsibilities the same?

Yeah, I mean responsibilities are essentially exactly the same. I'm still running the place. I'm you know, I still have the same just about the same amount of employees. So I think >> Okay, let's let's fast forward. Let's try to change Let's put the markers on the for the fun of it. You've been doing this a while. You know the world. So if someday you were a regional uh director of eight different mental

health centers and someone came to you for an interview and they both had done the exact same job. Would you care what their title was?

I can't say that I would. I don't think that I would be able to say this is the same thing. Exactly. You would look at it and go, you know, just in Alaska they named it this and in LA they named it that and it's the same same job description, same duties, same responsibilities. Crud, the Alaska one may have a bigger budget that you're managing. I don't know. I mean, there could be actual more qualifiers. The only other thing I'd throw out is I would ask for more money.

Alaska generally pays a premium to get people to live there.

Yeah. And you're getting a little bit of a premium, but I and I wouldn't just say I wouldn't ask for a set amount. I would just say, "Hey, I was talking to my financial counselor and he said he's not sure this is a good idea. Is this the best you can do?" Mhm.

And just see what they say. The worst thing they can say is, "Yeah, that's the best we can do." And you go, "Okay, I'm coming." Right? Or they go, "Oh, no, you know, we could actually do 20,000 more." And you go, "Oh, that one silly little question just made me 15 grand, you know?" Or maybe it's a kind of signing on bonus or extra relocation. >> don't do it with um a belligerent personality.

That's not what I'm talking about.

Is there anything else you can do?" Yeah. And asking a gentle open-ended question, you might be blown away with how much they add to that 6,000.

And it's a general negotiating posture to take anyway folks on anything. Is that the best you can do? And it's like, "Oh, no, I can do a whole lot more." It's like, "I really want to get rid of this thing." >> And then you just shut up and let them speak. >> Let them talk. You don't want to overtalk. >> Being really quiet. You ask a question and shut up. First guy speaks loses.

So. Again, worst case is they say, "No, this is the best I can do." Sounds like a fun Alaskan adventure.

Let's go. >> I like I'm in. Let's do it. Why not?

Worst case is you don't like it and it's too cold and you go somewhere else later. Nobody said you had to stay there for 25 years. You're just going up there to take a job.

Jordan is in Nashville. Hi Jordan, how are you? Hello. Hi.

Hey Dave. My mom has been listening to you since I was in the third grade and I'm 41 if that makes you feel old. Oh, I was already old. I was already feeling old and you helped. Thank you, brother.

Fossilizing Dave here soon.

Yeah, now [snorts] she was she was on to Dave Ramsey before before a lot a lot of people caught on to it. Back when I had hair. Yeah, I got it. Okay.

What's up today, man? >> is um I am 41 years old and I have got my house and everything paid off. I don't have any debt. Mom's proud.

Yep. And uh I've got a nest egg that I've been saving for a while and basically what my question was um

I do have I am working towards a pension and I'm 15 years in towards retirement on a city pension. Mhm. And um

my question is would you use all the capital I have now to make an investment in a real estate and business that I've been kind of wanting to do or would you just focus on investing in smart stocks and stuff that

would further secure retirement?

Okay, if you're slotting everything all the chips in the center of the table on one deal, I would not do that. I don't do that. But I do buy real estate and I like real estate. What are you talking about doing? Well, I've been wanting to do like an event center.

I've been wanting to do an event center in my town and kind of have like

all in one where it's kind of a kitchen, bar, event center for weddings, birthdays, events and so forth. I've been kind of messing around with that for a couple years. In Nashville?

No, not in Nashville. I live about an hour and a half from Nashville. Okay, which city?

Clarksville. Okay. All right. Yep. Cuz in Nashville I would just tell you there's 26 of them. mean, you don't It's like, how do you get the next country music star's attention? A waiter. You know, and so um but in Cookeville, how what's the event centers like there? How many of them are there?

There is a few event centers. I was actually wanting to do it in my hometown of Sparta.

Now we're getting small.

Is there enough population there to support one?

You know, the local they don't have a whole lot going on, but the local places that they do, for example, since I've been doing events, every time I try to call and book one of these places, they're 6 months out, they're 4 or 5 months out. So, it seems like all the rental and venue places are doing well.

And then our local bars, there's only a few of them. It seems like they do real well, too, as far as the amount of people that's always in them. What's the cost going to be on this if you did it right? Well, I've been looking into it, so like right now I've got, you know, a a pretty good chunk saved up, but the properties I've been looking into, there's a couple different options.

There's some out there right now that you can buy a turnkey ready pretty much for around 350, 400, which is I think [music] really high um bar area. You know what I would do?

and start your business and run it with the option to purchase it and put a price on it and buy it later if this works. If it doesn't work, you're just a tenant and you run your lease out. A lease with an option to purchase that reduces your risk.

>> Instead of dropping 350 into it, drop 50 into it and let's go try your dream without it turning into a dead [music] gum nightmare.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Cole is in Boise, Idaho. Hi, Cole. How are you?

Hi, Dave. It's really good. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up?

Hey, so my wife and I are both Doctor of

Audiology students and um currently right now we don't have any debt. Um we've been following you for quite a few years now and so we've maintained no debt um through school, through our our undergrad, everything like that. And we are now having to make a decision um just because our scholarships have kind of run out, the money that I saved up when I worked and she worked to school is running out. And so my question to you is is would you take on a student loan if it makes sense or would you do all that you can to just not take on any student loans at all?

Um preface with that, we do have money saved up.

So we're studying. So my wife is a third-year student going into her fourth year. So she has 1 year left and I'm a first-year student. So I've got 3 years left. Okay.

All right. And how does that world work

as far as work goes?

As a third-year student, can she work in the field while she finishes up?

She is. Both of us are. Oh, good.

>> have part-time jobs in the field. Um so we're both working part-time. We're taking advantage of any school scholarships that we can. Um but I mean the school costs about So we made 50,000 last year, but that

was when I was working full-time.

This year, I think we're projected at like 30,000.

And what does it take for her to finish the next year, the her last year?

So, it's going to cost us 30,000.

Each?

Yes. Okay. And you've been able to get scholarships for none of it or what?

For all for all of it up until now.

And so, that's where >> Why Why did the scholarships go away?

So, she's going to called her externship, so her clinical rotations.

So, there's no scholarships there, and then I'm in the current application period for scholarships, but nothing's been granted yet. And when I look at the numbers, I'm like, if I don't get any scholarships, we're going to have to make a decision on dip into our savings, take out a student loan, or >> wait wait wait wait. Wait. How much savings do we have?

So, I have a So, my wife and I have a brokerage account with 50,000, and then we currently have savings for 20,000.

So, if if it's worth borrowing for, why is it not worth using your savings for?

No, I I agree with that. My wife thinks that we should keep our brokerage account the way that it is because it made us 20% last year.

>> borrow money on a student loan to put money in a brokerage account. That's dumb.

Well, I that's why I called to make sure that I wasn't, you know, >> misunderstanding. You're not misunderstanding. You should pay cash for and finish your degree.

By the way, this is a license to print money. You know that.

Say that again? >> Audiology. You're You're going to do really well.

Oh, yeah. Well, and that's where what her take is is that leave everything there, take out the student loan, and then when she gets out is in and making 90 to 100,000, we'll just pay it off.

>> Yeah. I have just done everything new except that and said no debt.

>> to pay cash or we're not doing it. We're going to pay cash or we're not doing it. You have the money.

No, we do not borrow money on student We do not borrow money on student loans to invest.

Right. Well, so then one other question with that. So, because I have 3 years left when we get to the point that we would be forced to take out a student loan >> You're not. She's going to be making 90.

Well, right. And so, I She has 1 year left and then starts cashing checks.

Right. She could pay for you to finish.

Right.

Okay. Well, I just like I said, I wanted to make sure I I understood that correctly and So, you got you got 70k.

It's going to cost you 60 for both you to do another year, right? So, you got 10k left. Then she's working. So, now we can cash flow the next 30k for you.

Right. So, that would be the game plan.

>> that you would do. Yes, absolutely. A hundred times over. >> Zero times I'm going to tell you to take out a student loan ever.

But, particularly in when you've got a way at your fingertips to not do it and you're just doing it as a to keep your investments intact which has the same effect of having borrowed money on student loan to invest it. No, that's >> And just because it did 20% last year does not mean that's going to happen again this year. It could go down this year. And then she's going to be real heartbroken. >> Yeah, we could bomb Iran and the stock market could drop.

That's a wild thought. >> Who knew that would happen, you know?

All we knew was what was going to happen is all we knew. So, yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And to assume that you George is right. I mean, the last 2 years 25 and 26 were 23 to 26%. Both of them were

incredible years. But, that's not normal, folks. And you don't you don't make your decisions based on a 20% rate of return cuz it doesn't We don't tell people you're going to get 20% average.

We just know what actually happened in the last 2 years. So, each each each.

No, we're not borrowing student loans.

Matthews in Hartford, Connecticut. Hey, Matthew.

Hey, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I I maxed my 401k out with like 3 4 months left in the year, putting the 15% in like you guys uh like tell us that's a good idea to. And my company has an after-tax account that I can continue to put a percentage of my check in after taxes that rolls into my 401k Roth. Do you have a Do you have a mortgage?

I do have a mortgage. Put it on that.

Don't put it in that.

Pay your mortgage off.

>> That was that was the only question I had. Okay, it's easy. Yeah, we tell people that when you're in baby steps four, five, and six, four is 15% of your income going into retirement, five is kids college, any other money we can find above living life well, we're going to throw out and pay off the mortgage next. Because what we found, Matthew, the data tells us that the typical millionaire in America, and we've done the largest study on them of anybody, has a paid-for home and a healthy muscle-bound 401k account. You're going

to have both if you go this route. Now, when the house is paid off, you can go back and play some of these other games.

You can max out, you can you know, you get to the to this year be 24,500 if you're over 50, you can do or over 60, you can do 11,500 250 extra.

Do all those kinds of games. I do every bit of that. I do everything I can do.

I'm 66 and I'm But I don't have any debt and hadn't had in 20 30 years. So, I I'm

just I just I'm always maxing that stuff. I don't have any mortgages. It's a baby step seven item to stay away from. >> Going above and beyond all of that. But yeah, you got the backdoor Roth IRA for incomes too high for the normal, and then you get the mega backdoor Roth 401k, which is what he's talking about.

Yeah. >> Where you can do the after-tax contribution and an in-plan conversion, and we have that at Ramsey. Very few people do it around here. >> Because they're not baby step seven. But at that point, it's a good option to have. But again, to your point, I'd rather have the house paid off first before I'm adding extra to retirement. Cuz likely he's going to be a multi-multi-multi-millionaire in that retirement account. >> Exactly. So in the meantime till we get there and can access it, let's have a paid-off home.

Okay. And because that that is an element of the typical data point of the typical person in their first one to five million dollars in net worth. Now beyond that, people do other things. They don't borrow to do it, but beyond that, they're doing more than just 401k and a paid-for house.

Other rental properties, they've got businesses, they got other things to run on their worth up above that. But

So a backdoor Roth, explain that, George. So a backdoor Roth, if your income is too high to contribute to an IRA, traditional or Roth, you can do a backdoor Roth IRA, which is when you use after-tax dollars contributed to a traditional IRA, and then you pretty much immediately roll it over and convert it to a Roth IRA. Just did mine the other day. Oh, nice.

Do it every year. Before before tax season rolls around. Yeah, it's great. And you can do a spousal as well.

And so you can now this year $7,500. Yep. And for you guys, even more. We're old.

85. 86. Woohoo!

now. It's a good day for Dave. >> I just moved another 17,000. That's and you know, and and and all the growth on that for the rest of my life will not be taxed, and it will not be subject to inherited IRA rules.

Not taxed to my heirs. So when the grandkids get this money, they're not going, "Oh, I got to pay taxes on it." Nope. Papa Dave did it for you guys.

>> done done a Roth. So there we go.

>> You can thank him now.

And so everything in my name at 66 or 65 is in a Roth. And so that's the route we're going because it keeps no minimum distributions, no required minimum distributions at 72 and a half, 74 and a half, whatever. >> Which statistically you and Sharon are going to live into your 90s if you made it this far. Well, my my plan is well beyond that. But we'll see. I think sheer willpower and spite Dave will outlive us all. That's my greatest fear.

>> I'll be on here spreading hate and dissension long after the rest of you are gone. 104 years old, Dave's still on the air. Get out that. Sell the truck.

>> said he's the Methuselah of personal finance. >> Sell the truck.

>> [music]

>> Welcome to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studios. I'm Dave

Ramsey, your host. George Kamel, Ramsey personality, [music] number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Melissa's in New Orleans.

Hi Melissa, how are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um well, my question is I'm considering

separating um my income from my husband.

We've been married for 13 over 13 years.

Why?

Um well, okay. For the

most of our marriage, I've been uh I

started off mostly at home and he went to work.

We had babies [clears throat] and I would like, you know, manage the household, manage the finances.

He knew he wasn't very good with money and he let me do it. My dad taught me a little bit and my dad even gave me like the um

the baby steps book in like our first year of marriage. So [clears throat]

So now >> manage >> all. For now, you want to separate your money. Why?

Well, uh when I went back to work full-time, I'm a school teacher, and um about 5 years ago, once our youngest got into kindergarten, well, it was actually first grade, but um

it just got too hard for me to manage, you know, the finances, the household, the children, full-time work, especially teaching, and I started asking him, like, "Hey, I like I need help." And I I felt like the biggest stress was always managing the money, and that was because we didn't agree on that area.

Like, I'm always trying to save, and I was always trying to get trying to get us out of debt and everything, and he really didn't agree with um the Dave

Ramsey method. >> So Melissa, is he misbehaving with money? You haven't answered the question. Oh, um >> What problem does it solve for you to separate your money?

Well, I feel like it would eliminate us fighting if he just spent his money, and I didn't have to >> cause him to be broke, and you to be broke, too. He'll drag you down with him. Right now, you're the only thing holding this together.

But it's just really hard on the marriage. Like, if that's like our >> No, the money isn't hard on the marriage. The selfishness is hard on the marriage.

But he's you know, he's worked really hard. >> We all work hard. Call the whambulance.

Where? He worked really hard, so that gives him permission to constantly be at odds with his wife, instead of coming into agreement and deciding on what our future goals are together. Bull crap.

That's selfishness. >> with him, and I just >> That's selfishness. You don't agree to stupidity. And so, separating the finances is not going to give you a better marriage. It'll just brush the problem under the rug. Makes it worse. It'll separate you guys further.

Okay. Yes, sir. Yeah, cuz he's going to burn all of his in the corner.

And then you're going to be trying to run the whole family on yours.

And then are you going to split expenses and split the mortgage and split the utilities like roommates?

>> I considered like doing like, you know, I make significantly less than him.

I like Okay, let's try let's try this.

You do not have a money problem.

You have a marriage problem. So, let's not fix a marriage problem with a money solution. Let's fix a marriage problem with a marriage solution. You guys need to go see a marriage counselor. You need to sit down with your pastor and it's time for you all to put this marriage together the first time completely that you ever have. Before you were the mommy taking

care of the little boy. Now the little boy's rising up and saying, "I want a vote and I don't agree with everything you're doing." And the two of you can't find a language to reconcile in your relationship on your disagreements.

That's not a money problem. That's a marriage problem. Yes, sir. So, you guys

get on the phone and get your marriage counselor booked.

And it's not Well, Sharon I went to marriage counseling Melissa when we were ten been married ten years. We've been married 43 now.

Um we went we went broke when we were seven at seven years.

And so three years later all the pissed off came to the surface from going broke cuz we we about killed each other. And uh but what we got at marriage counseling was not like we're broken you need to fix us.

I looked at it as like I hired a tutor.

I hired a personal trainer to give me skills and knowledge about marriage that I didn't have from the home I grew up in.

So, I need you to teach me something to be married as a better husband. I need you to teach her something so she'll be married as a better wife and teach us

language and processes to go get through

arguments like this and come to a conclusion.

And so, I just looked at it as I hired a personal trainer, I hired a I hired a tutor. Um you know, and I'm trying to get knowledge tools in my belt cuz I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know how to fix it by myself. And y'all don't know how to fix it by yourself.

But it's not separating the money and you go off to your corner and he goes off to his corner. That's going to make it worse. So, uh I would say the two of you not because you're broken not because you're all screwed up. Um but you have some things you need to learn that you've never learned in 13 years about how to talk to each other, how to

some Bible says submit yourselves one to another. How to put the other person first. That's what I was talking about selfishness. And you know, I've been doing this 43 years and it's still hard.

Because I'm still right and she's still wrong. >> [laughter] >> But I told her if she leaves I'm going with her. So, there you go. Uh but that's it.

I mean, you know, it it's it's hard. You you know, and um to navigate [clears throat] through this. You guys you you and Whitney had a bit of an advantage in that you started out as financial peace test tube babies here. >> She worked here at Ramsey and I thought if she's good enough to work at for Dave Ramsey, she's good enough for me.

Probably too good for me. Well, that's true. But yeah. It was easy.

But I have found Dave people that get married, they're not unified on money, but they go, "Well, he's just bad with money. It's just a personality trait." >> And then when you hear and then when I start picking on him, she says, "Oh, he works hard. Oh, give me a break." I think he works too hard to be this broken, selfish, and childish. Well, there we go.

>> So, there's one. Boom, drop that mic on it. Yeah. So, folks, here's the thing.

helping people build wealth, get out of debt so that they can build wealth, build wealth so that they can change their family tree and be outrageously generous. You know, there's a couple things we're sure of.

Very few, if almost none, of the married couples that build wealth

do it separately.

When we did the largest study of millionaires, we said, "How many of you work together with your spouse, and how many of you work separate?" 83% said we work together. The general public says less than 50% says we work together. But the general public's normal, and normal sucks. It's broke. You don't want to be normal.

And so, you know, if you want an advantage to building wealth, it's learn to work together with your spouse. Be unified in a desired future, as our friend Henry Cloud says. And then you say, "Okay, how does this discussion we're having affect that future?"

You know, you're wanting to buy something, we can't afford it, it affects that future. You want to be irresponsible with money, it affects that future. We've agreed that this is the future we want. We've got an agreed-upon desired future.

>> Yeah. And and anything that affects that negatively, hey, we need to look at it. There it's a wealth multiplier to be on the same page financially sharing the account. That's just the facts of it. >> Melissa, all the years of doing this show, your call is the number one call we get. How do I get my reluctant spouse on board with your Ramsey stuff? How do we

get agreement in our house? It's the number one call we get.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> When people hear my story of paying off debt, they say things like, "Dang, that must have been so hard. I can never do that." And I tell them, sure you can.

It's a short-term sacrifice for a long-term gain. But do you know what's really hard? Working your whole life and never having anything to show for it.

Never having the long-term gain. Just feeling broke and stressed and maxed all the time. And sadly, that's the hard that most people choose. Listen, you're capable of transforming your situation and living a life of freedom. But you need the right tools to do it. Like our EveryDollar budget app. In minutes, it'll build you a step-by-step plan that's tailored to your money situation.

And every day, it finds ways you can free up extra money in your budget so you can get rid of your debt and actually build wealth. So make the choice today. Short-term sacrifice, long-term gain. Choose the tool to help you get it done fast. Download the EveryDollar app and start for free today.

>> [music]

>> Today's question of the day is brought to you by Yrefi. If defaulted private

student loans are wrecking your budget, it's [snorts] time to deal with them. Yrefi helps you refinance defaulted private student loans with a low fixed rate payment based on your ability to pay so you can stick to a budget and work the plan. Go to yrefi.com/ramsey.

That's the letter y r e f y.com/ramsey.

Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Nikki in Idaho.

What is a dividend stock? My co-worker has two houses that are completely paid off by using dividend stocks to increase her income by several thousand dollars per month and then reinvesting that income. Bull. This sounds too good to be true. Is it possible to do this? That's a lie.

>> [snorts] >> I she trying to sell you a course on this? Yeah. I mean, you've got to Let's Let's put it this way. Dividend stock versus a growth stock is just a company using their profit sharing to pay you a little bit instead of reinvesting that.

>> So, if I own stock at Home Depot and Home Depot makes a profit, they have two options. One is reinvest

it back into the company and grow Home Depot, and then the value of my stock might grow. Or they can pay the profits out in the form of dividends.

A dividend stock is a company that is mature. It's not in a growth phase. It's in a mature phase, and they pay out all their profits. So, it's an old, big, dinosaur company like an Alcoa aluminum.

Johnson & Johnson. >> Johnson & Johnson, Procter & Gamble, okay? This type of thing.

>> [snorts] >> So, um dividend stocks

do not have as good a rate of return

as regular stock that's growing. Cuz you're basically pulling it out. It's not going to grow. profit out. You're cashing in your chips at the end of the game.

You're saying I'd rather get the money now and not continue to let it grow. And so, you didn't you know, so for instance, if the stock market went up 20% in 1 year, that is like last year

went up 25% in 2025, okay?

But >> [clears throat and cough] >> there was not a dividend payout associated with that at all.

Dividends had nothing to do with that.

Dividends were companies made a profit in 2025 and they paid it out or they didn't to their constituents to their stockholders. So, point being, your

coworker did not pay cash with the dividends off of a stock. So, let let me just give you an idea. If you had $100,000 invested and your dividend stock paid out 10%, that'd be $10,000,

and that would be a huge Usually IT'S LIKE 3%. >> MASSIVE PAYOUT.

SO, for them to get enough to buy two paid-for houses, they'd have to have millions of dollars in dividend stocks.

Which in that regard, it didn't happen from dividend stocks. It happened from investing over a long period of time.

>> Yeah. So, a dividend stock is a dumbed-down

way to invest, a low-risk way to invest.

>> trick. It's just math. But it's not even good math. I mean, I'd rather have that money continue to grow. I know. I'm a

worth several hundred million. I'm 65.

The number of stocks I have that are dividend stocks are precisely zero. I want a better rate of return than that. >> I mean, we've heard you say on air for 30 years now, good growth stock mutual funds. >> Yeah. Not dividend stock. No, and the reason is the returns. It's pretty simple. And those dividend income, that's taxable. >> me let me reread it. What is a dividend stock? We just explained that. Coworker has two houses that are completely paid off by using dividend stocks to increase

her income by several thousand dollars per month. Okay, that did not happen.

And then she said, "And then reinvesting that income." Yeah, well, that's the income off of the uh houses.

Okay. You got the pow two houses paid off by using dividend stocks. So, my point is, if you did that, you either cashed in the stock or you have millions and millions of dollars to buy a hundred-thousand-dollar house or two-hundred-thousand-dollar house.

So, that's not Something's wrong. That doesn't pass the smell test, Nikki. >> You're not going to follow her strategy and do this. >> Yeah. So, >> At least in this lifetime. >> question. It's good to educate people on what a dividend stock is. That's why we took the question. And there's [snorts] nothing wrong with dividend stocks, but it's just an ultra-conservative, lower rate of return way of messing with the stock market. >> It just makes you feel good to get that little check in the mail every quarter.

Yeah. And it typically is done by folks that are retired, and they would place a chunk of money so that they could get a steady income off of these steady income companies. But again, it's a reduced rate of return. And it takes a big bank roll to make some serious money. >> In order to pay off two houses, you know, there's something we got a chicken egg problem with this thing with this story. So, this is somebody that read something on Tik Tok and then a lie to you. All right, Julie is in Omaha, Nebraska.

Hi Julie, how are you?

I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So, I have an interesting question. I

am interested in buying a new camper. We currently own one worth about maybe 11 or 11 or 12,000 dollars.

But, my husband works on the road out of state for a wind and solar farm company.

And I'm a stay-at-home mom with our first son. He's 1 years old. You live in

the camper? >> That takes Yeah, he [clears throat] lives in a camper. Oh, he lives in the ca >> I live in our home that we own in Nebraska. And how how long is he gone every day every week?

All the time. I would say 90% of the year. What does he make?

He makes about Last year it was

I think 80,000, but we had just had my

our son last year and he took off a great deal of time. So, what is your long-term plan? What's your long-term plan with his career cuz that doesn't sound sustainable.

Right. His father and family work for

the company also and they have made a living off of that. His mother owns or

his mother's side of the family owns a

business here in town.

And that that's another [clears throat] option that he could work there. What is his plan to do 10 years from today?

Um just I guess his it's to make money

for our family to be aspire to be millionaires. So, whatever I mean, he's gone 90% of the time and you have a brand new baby.

And he makes and he makes $80,000 a year and he lives in a camper.

So, how does a new camper fix this?

>> Sorry, say that again? How does the new camper fix this? Are you just going to live on the road with him? We live together. Yes. Oh.

>> And you can't do that in the current camper? No, it's $11,000. She's a one-year-old.

>> know. No, it's a it's a small camper that has like a bunk bed in the back that is much small for any clothes or anything for his his needs.

Okay. Okay, [snorts] so if you buy a $30,000 camper now, he has a $50,000 job.

Correct. Yeah, that would be true. I do make a small income.

Um it's about $2,200 to $300 a month from the VA. I was in

for about 6 years and was my medically retired.

Thank you. Thank you for your share. >> make Okay. >> that. We also make an income from our previous home that we own.

Um it's the mortgage is about minimum

500. We pay 800. And we rent it out for

1350 a month.

Where is that home?

>> [snorts] >> Also here in town with us.

Okay.

Ooh, if I would simplify your life truthfully, I don't know if it's worth keeping this rental with the mortgage on it and you have an mortgage on your primary home that you're living in.

Correct. >> What's left on the mortgage?

Oh, it's We just bought it December

of the year prior, so >> you going to keep this while you live on the road?

That would be the question also. Yeah, I

I don't know if if this is a long-term

um job, if we're going to stay for another couple more years so that we can pay it off. We're 26.

>> Okay. I'll give you a prediction.

5 years from the day, you're not not to be doing this.

Okay.

Because [snorts] what what you're doing it it the gypsy life is very strenuous.

And little babies on the road are you know, it just doesn't work for most people. Some people do it, but very very few. There's a reason people have a home and settle in for the mental health of the relationship and the quality of life for the kids and all that. For a short period of time it's an adventure.

But after that it becomes drudgery.

So I think this camper question really comes down to a career question of what's he going to do in the next stage of his life and when's that stage going to begin? Ready, set, go.

If it's going to begin sooner rather than later, then no, we don't need to move up in camper. If you move up in camper, you have to pay cash and it's going to become worth nothing by the time you finish this this adventure.

>> [music]

[music]

[music]

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on the show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> [music]

[music]

[music] >> While we wish we could get to every call and question here on the show, some of them we're glad we don't get to.

So, if you have a money question and you want an answer for your situation, head on over to the website and use Ask Ramsey. Ask Ramsey is our free AI tool

that's built and trained on the proven Ramsey principles. To say the least, we have a bazillion hours of this show that we downloaded into AI and so it knows how to answer the question exactly the way we would have answered it. You get the same answer we'd give you right here on the show. So, ask your question today at ramseysolutions.com for free or just click the link in the description if you're listening on a podcast or YouTube. It's here, it's big, and it's popular. Ask Ramsey. Charles is

in Fort Myers, Florida. Hey Charles, how are you? Hey Dave, how you doing? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Wonderful. Let me tell you about my situation here. So, I am 34 years old. I

just sold my first home to move back in with my parents. I have about 70 grand

sitting in an S&P mutual fund and my 401k is in a good step and the

only debt I have is a car note. What's my next step?

Why'd you move back in?

Um I was originally from Pennsylvania.

They moved down to Florida and just to get back in with my family. I took a layoff, didn't make the money I was making, so it seems like no better time.

So, you don't have a job?

No, I I currently have a job and I start a new job next uh in like 2 weeks. Oh,

good. Okay.

All right. And so, um you're debt-free, you have money in an S&P, right?

I have money in an S&P. The only debt I have is a car note. Okay. How much do you owe on the car?

18 five. Okay.

Well, what we teach is to be debt free and have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses and then start talking about buying a house.

Okay. So, I guess how long should I hang out in till I I just get real real aggressive on the car note?

I mean, you don't need to be aggressive. I would sell enough from the S&P 500 brokerage account, pay off the car today, cash out more to cover your emergency fund and then whatever's left becomes your down payment. On your house and yeah, probably what are you going to make at the new gig?

They're quoting me starting anywhere from 70 to like 95 at the commission based sales. I mean, if you live there for four or five months and you just try to figure out the neighborhoods and you you know, then you're just do all that kind of thing. That's not the end of the world. They probably like having you around. But I I just don't think it's probably a a good thing for your personal life and your personal future to be living in mommy's basement at 34 for very long.

I agree. That's why I wanted to see

what you would advise. Yeah, I'd put a time on it. I'd say you know, 120 days, 90 days. You put a date on it and say, "I'm out by that date.

I'm paying off the car today. I'm going to move like George said enough over to a money market account that is three to six months of expenses or what it takes to operate if you had rent and have that as your emergency fund and you've got the balance for a down payment and just add to that down payment during that 120 days with this great income and no payments in the world. >> And don't increase your lifestyle cuz you get comfortable [clears throat] cuz you don't have housing expenses. That's what most people do when they move back in with mom and dad is they go, "Well, I'll save a lot of money by doing that." And then I ask, "Well, how much have you saved this year?" They go, uh $2,000.

I go, "Well, yeah, that plan sucked." So, actually put this amazing income to work by setting it aside for that down payment. >> Yeah, I'd stack another 10 or 20 grand in there right quick during this 120 days on top of what you've got after the car's paid off and after the emergency fund. And then look for a you know, get you a nice little condo of some kind and get started back out in the real estate world and get get your place self a place and it could be near mom and dad. You still see them a lot and all that be great.

And that's how we answer questions here.

If I were in your shoes, what would we do? But Ryan is in Virginia Beach. Hey Ryan.

>> [snorts] >> Hey guys, how you doing? Thanks for taking my call. Sure, what's up?

Hey, so my wife and I are moving down to Florida in August and I just finished baby step one. I got a side job made an extra and started listening to your show about a few months ago. Got a side job made about 1,000 bucks just doing my side gig. Made

some money. Now I'm Now I'm wondering if I should start um tackling my debt or if I should save up a little bit money for our move.

Why are you guys moving?

Um job opportunity for her and for me there's actually a lot of opportunity for myself down there as well.

And what's the move going to cost? >> probably a little bit.

Uh haven't calculated the cost of the move yet, but we are going to be paying less in rent and both of us are going to be making more money. Okay. Well, right now you don't have the money for the move, so we definitely need to save up for that.

Sure. Yeah. Before we start tackling more than minimum payments on the debt. >> you pay off debt and you don't have money for the move and it goes in debt, that was a you just swapped one swapped ends, right?

Sure. Yeah. So when is the move?

Uh August. Okay. And do you know a ballpark what it's going to cost?

That's probably going to cost 3 to 6 grand. Okay. So now we have a goal. >> [snorts] >> 6 grand by August. >> Correct. And how much debt do you have?

Uh 18,000. Okay. On what?

Uh credit cards. Okay. >> Truck is paid off.

And what do you do for a living?

I'm a golf professional. Okay. And so Not in terms of playing, more of coaching. Got you. And uh you have PGA use and little bit of that going on in Florida.

Little bit more than Virginia Beach, yeah. Probably probably land a gig in 30 minutes down there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Assuming you're any good. And uh okay.

And what does she do?

Uh she works in the uh hospital field.

Okay. >> She's an office office director. And what do you average as a PGA golf professional?

Um I make my salary is about 35 a year,

but I make probably 34 in terms of um

lessons compensation. [snorts] Okay. So 75 80 and you'll probably do better than that in Florida, yeah. Okay, good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Good good good.

>> plan, save a thousand bucks a month until the move. And then once you guys are settled in, let's start attacking this debt and knock it out fast cuz that credit card debt that the APR on that alone makes you want to throw up. So um Sure. Yeah. >> your calendar for lesson availability to change today to you're available anytime. I want you working all the time.

Got it. >> All the time. I don't want to pull your calendar up and go, "Oh, he doesn't work Thursdays." No, you work all the time.

You need money. [clears throat] Yep. And go pile you up some money and get enough to cover the move. Figure out to calculate what the move's going to be. Anything above that cost go ahead and throw it at this debt. And just keep working your way. It'd be really cool if you just went crazy and got debt free and had the money for the move. >> Ooh, I like that. >> by August. Wouldn't that be weird? But that's both of you working all the time.

And that's what I want to do. So that sounds cool. Sounds like an adventure.

Do it, Ryan. Way to go, man.

>> [sighs and gasps] >> Eric in Indianapolis. Hey Eric, what's up in your world?

>> [snorts] >> Hey Dave, thanks for taking my call.

Sure, how can we help?

Um, I had just completed baby step three

and was moving on to four, five, and six. And I started hearing different personalities talk about sinking funds like for cars or maybe home repairs.

And I'm curious if I should be basically growing a larger emergency fund for you know, on top of the emergency fund, start the sinking funds as opposed to or before or during four, five, and six.

Uh during four, five, and six, you need some sinking funds that are not an

emergency fund. And so, home repairs are typically a minor sinking fund because you're you're setting aside you're saying, "Okay, if we have a $3,000 event this year with a hot water heater or a heating and air item or something like that, you know, if we set aside 250 a month, we've got a little money for that." That's a planning a future reasonable thing. You're going to have things like that happen. The dishwasher goes, yeah. Washer and dryer blows up.

Whatever it is, right? And Okay. that

kind of thing. Car replacement, I don't start that until I see the car into the future. So, in other words, I look and say, "Okay, two years from now we're going to buy a car." Okay, what's the car going to cost? $24,000.

All right, it's 24 months, it's $1,000 a month. Okay, I'm going to do that that way. But if today I don't really see buying a car in the next two years or so, I'm probably not going to do that. But I'm going to do my sinking funds in time to be able to pay cash for whatever I'm going to do.

So, non-negotiable, invest 15%. Money beyond that, if you want to set up a few sinking funds for things you know are coming up, absolutely do that. But you don't need 17 of them eating up all of your take-home pay.

>> [music]

[music]

>> You spend hours researching before making a major purchase like a home or car, but it's also a good idea to put in the work searching for the right insurance coverage. To protect your biggest assets, I recommend using Ramsey Trusted Pros. Whether you're looking for car, home, or any other type of insurance, Ramsey trusted providers have been coached and vetted to serve you like we would. Find what you need at ramseysolutions.com/insurance.

>> [music]

[music]

>> Proverbs 31:8 and 9 is our scripture of

the day. Speak up for those who cannot speak up for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly. Defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Benjamin Franklin said it takes many good deeds to build a good reputation and only bad one bad one to lose it.

David is in San Antonio. Hi David, how are you?

I'm good. I my wife and I are having a discussion. I want to retire in May of this year at 58. She wants me going work for four more years.

For one a tenth of a percent on my multiplier for my retirement.

I'm sorry. This is a pension?

Uh well, it's a federal pension and I'll get I've maxed out. I'm I'm basically as high as I can go. Okay, so what is the pension if you retire now and what is it if you work for 4 more years in money?

Yeah, $9,100 before any cola right now if I retire in May, it'll go up to like $9,780

a month if I wait 4 years.

Okay, so you get $800 more a month if you work for 4 more years.

Yes. For life?

For life.

Okay. And you would be 62. >> 62. >> [clears throat] >> By the way, statistically if you live to be 62 and you're a male, you make it into your 90s.

So, average death age of 76 no longer applies to these kinds of discussions.

So, we got a we have a 30-year plus time time horizon on average.

And then that's not even taking into account my TSP or my brokerage account

our brokerage account. Yeah, but that's not the point. The the only question is

is uh you're giving up $700 a month $8,000 a year for 30 years.

Or so. That is a lot of money.

>> Okay. That that's her That's That's what she Is she doing this because she doesn't think you're going to be able to live on it or she thinks it's mathematically smart?

She thinks we won't be able to live on it. You can't live on $9,000 a month?

What do y'all make now?

Uh we make 150, but everything we have is paid for. We can live on it and then we have plenty of money [snorts] to pull out if we need to. >> And you got the TSP. How much is in it?

Almost 3.2 million. >> Oh good god.

Okay. >> there's our brokerage account. Okay.

So, what [snorts] does the extra eight grand a year do for her that she's going, "Hey, this is worth you working another four years?" I think it's she wants me to work because she has to teach for four more years to retire. So, that's the real reason. It has got nothing to do with the money. So, she said, "If I have to work, you have to work.

You don't get to lay on the couch while I I'm out here." >> working before I see I keep telling her jokingly that I started working before you did. Yeah. All right. So, um you have 3.2 million in the TSP.

have $9,100 coming in in addition to that.

You currently make 150. What does she make?

She makes about 72. Okay. And how much in um other accounts other than the TSP?

And then in our Victory Funds account, I've managed to save almost $2.8 million in in in our investment accounts. Okay.

>> [snorts] >> If neither one of you enjoy what you're doing and you both desire retirement,

you should both quit.

That's what I keep telling her because she keeps saying she wants to go on all these trips to Bali and to Yeah. And I think you should go I think you should load up the truck and head to Beverly.

You ought to do it.

I Well, I saved a lot because I grew up really poor. I know.

But, you have $6

If you make an average of 10% if that's invested in decent mutual funds, that's $600,000 a year. Plus, you have a 100,000 plus coming from the government and I bet you she's got a pension, too.

Yeah. >> And so, you got a seven or an $800,000 income without touching the $6 million.

That's what I keep trying to tell her.

Yeah. And so, I think you ought to go to Bali in May.

That's what I'm thinking. >> [snorts] >> For a month? >> Ramsey. >> For a month? >> We Well, thank you. >> think you guys will be able to spend this money fast enough to even run out.

If you sit down you need to sit down with your financial advisor and unpack all this and show that if this is all invested what the income it's going to be throwing off without even touching the nest egg just living off of the income only where you would be.

And it's going to blow >> make an appointment with our wealth advisor. And both of you sit down and let let him or her say here's the math.

Not emotion, not I grew up poor so I think one way, but here's what the math says. The math says you can spend

$500,000 a year and your investments will continue to grow.

I think that's another concern is she wants to leave something for our children. I think you probably are going to.

Unless you'll start doing cocaine or something, I think you're going to have plenty.

Okay. >> Are they grown and successful on on their own without you guys? Oh, yes.

They're we've gotten them out of college. They all have careers on their own. Our daughter is a nurse anesthetist and our They're fine.

She's making 400.

Oh my gosh. You guys are killing it. Why I'm so proud of y'all. She makes 210 but she's doing good. Yeah, way to go, David. This is awesome.

>> of you need to loosen up and go enjoy some of this money. Yeah, it's time. You lived like no one else. Now it's time to live and give like no one else. You There's no reason for you all to work unless you are enjoying it and it's what

you want to do with your life. That's why I work.

But I haven't worked in years because I needed money.

Years, decades.

So I work cuz I like doing this. And then sometimes I like being gone and I'm gone. And so >> You're good at that, too. I'm good at that, too. I've got I've got them both down. Got it dialed [snorts] in, baby.

>> I love it. That's That's a good lesson.

Man, way to go, David. Tyler's in Columbus, Ohio. Hi, Tyler. What's up?

>> [snorts] >> Hey Dave. Um, I'm calling because I'm just trying to make the right decision here. Um, I got uh three properties.

Um, one's my primary residence. That's about 350.

Um, I got another one that's a rental producing about 500 bucks a month in cash flow.

Um, and then I have another one that's an Airbnb. Um, I'm trying to

That one's breaking even.

And I'm trying to decide um trying to work towards baby step number two and I've do we're doing that with my wife's student loans and I'm just trying to figure out if I should sell these houses um make somewhere in the realm of like a hundred plus grand. The two houses that you don't live in? >> everything. Yes. And how much do you have in in debt that's not mortgage debt?

I have about 70 grand in my wife's

student loans um and 20 grand on a truck.

Okay. So you would sell two rentals, an Airbnb that's breaking even, another one's making 500 and be 100% debt free

and have your household [clears throat] income and be working your system to build cash, build it to pay cash for your next rental properties somewhere out in the future. Would that be a plan?

That might be a good plan.

>> [laughter] >> Just it seems a scary venture to sell an asset or something that >> Well, let me just say >> owning an Airbnb that breaks even is hard as a big a pain in the butt as those things are to manage. Breaking even on that does not sound appealing.

Not even remotely. >> And that's a lot of headache and stress on top of a hundred grand in debt. So I would definitely sell these, clear the debt, get an emergency fund and then just move slower next time. Yeah, and just pay cash as you go and [clears throat] let's get your house paid off and you said I'm going to guess and say you're in your 20s.

I'm 31. Um, done a lot or been in the

military for the past 10 years. Finally got out, moved on to a bigger, better career and

it was a great investment at the time.

Got it under COVID time and right before COVID and they've only appreciated. So So you can make some money on it and clear up everything and now you have no payment in the world and you stack cash

and start talking about how we can get the mortgage paid off and pay cash for some rentals in the future. That's what I did, Tyler, and I pay cash for everything and it has been a wonderful life building a portfolio of paid for real estate. And I can't recommend it enough. And it sounds like you're good at it and you like it except [snorts] for that Airbnb part.

>> Now you don't have to clean up after the next bachelor party. That sounds nice, too. >> Oh, that just grosses me out. Sorry, Dave.

Ugh. That I'm just saying, that's who's booking these Airbnbs. I don't even want to know about it.

Wow, that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

>> [music]

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## 283. Your Overspending Will Eventually Catch Up With You | Best-Of for March 26, 2025


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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Jade Warshaw.

I'm joined today by best-selling author Rachel Cruze. Thank you for being here with me today, Rachel. So great, Jade. Good show.

It sure is. All hour we're going to be taking calls about your life and your money. So, give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225.

We'll take your call and we will give you our best shot at advice. I think we do a pretty good job, but I guess at the end of the day it's up to you. So, let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Jason from San Jose, California. What's going on, Jason?

All right. Um thanks for taking my call.

The problem that we're having is my wife and I can't decide if we're in baby steps uh three, four,

five, or six. And we seem to be moving in and out of those those baby steps.

Okay. Tell me more.

Well, we make about uh $320,000

is our household income.

We've got two mortgages, one on our primary home with about $220,000 left to pay on it. And then we have a rental property that we break even on every month, and we've got about $300,000 left on that. We both save for our retirement.

Um and we max that out every year to to get the matching contributions.

I have the ESPP uh along with other investments that I that I place. And then we have college funds for our kids.

And the issue is um I manage So, my wife manages all the month-to-month, you know, daily checking operations. And she wants to have the 6-month savings um in, you know, in a savings account that tied to the checking account. And I keep explaining to her and showing her that hey, we've got all this money elsewhere, you know, money market funds and um you know, stocks and you know, we have money The money market has about uh 100,000 in there. Okay. Would you say that that's more than 6 months of expenses?

Oh, yeah. Definitely. Definitely, yeah.

so, you're saying she wants money on top of that. It sounds like she just wants a little slush fund so that when if you go over budget, it's all good, right?

Uh no, cuz we we do use the uh the money app, and that's working out well. She just wants to have access to it, yeah.

I don't know if it's Yeah, I don't know if it's much access. I just wonder, Jason, because in your head, yeah, there's money there, but it's kind of attributed to whatever may be needed.

And I think for her, there could be a level of safety of saying, "Hey, we're going to open up a you know, a new account in this money market account, and we're labeling it the emergency fund, and we're going to have 6 months in there, and that's it." And like that that's what it's titled, that's what it's labeled, and that's what it is and nothing else. Because when you start to say cuz I could even feel that. Like, yeah, there's money here or there, and there's some stocks and And it's like, "Okay, but how how can I get to it if we really need it?" I think it's more of a security thing for her.

And I think and I think that level of organization, too, is really healthy and good. And so, what you could do, Jason, seriously, and and this is what we tell people for your emergency fund, it's its own account, it's over here, you don't touch it unless you need it, but it's designated specifically for that. And do would that help her, do you think, if you just say, "Yeah, we're going to take some of this 100,000, have another account, we're not touching it, but it's here if we need it." I I think it would, but the question is, you know, the follow-up question to that is, do we stop the baby steps four, five, and six to get you have 100,000 money.

You have the money in the in that money market account.

I see. just because it's the same place where like all your re- like where all of your retirement is and like where all your investing is? Is that why she's not viewing it as an emergency fund? That's right, yeah. And you know, we've had issues come up.

Like last year in the rental, we had a flood that we had to deal with, and we went into, you know, we went into one of the accounts, we pulled the money out, we paid cash, there was no issue. You know, we we've got peace, right?

Yeah, but then did you go back and replenish that? Cuz in her head, she's like, "Oh my gosh, we've used that. Is it here?" I don't know. I could see what she's saying, cuz that's how I am.

Like, we have a high-yield savings account, Jason, my husband and I. And so, we'll put extra savings every month in this fund um but underneath it, like when I go into ally.com, we have one line that says like savings. We have one line that says emergency fund with that amount of money. And I need those separate.

Like, I need to know there's this there's this here, and we don't touch that, but everything else is just extra savings on top of what we need.

Here's money we just don't touch, and it's here just in case crap hits the fan. And that feels good to me with the distinction. Like, even, Jason, this may sound crazy. Even to the point that I'm like, if we're talking about money, I'm like, "Okay, how much is in the is in the high yield?" He'll give me the number, and I'm always like, "Does that Is that the emergency fund?

Does that count the emergency fund? Are you adding those together?" And he's like, "No, I never add them together for your sanity." And I'm like, "Thank you." So, it's So, you don't think we should slow down on on paying off mortgage early? You think No, you have You have the money. You have the money.

So, I would take that what that I would take part of that 100,000 that you have in cash or somewhere else. I don't care where you get it. And get a 6-month emergency fund in a new account and label it emergency fund, and I think that will ease her her tension. I really do.

I think that would be That's what I would do. That's what I would want personally.

an emergency fund. And is there something we're missing here? Is it just as simple as relabeling this money?

Yeah, it is. It's because she wants, you know, in the regular checking savings account that are, you know, in the day-to-day operations, she wants to see the savings account be the 6 months. And I said, "Well, if we want to do that, then we got to stop She is wrong about If we want to do that, then we got to stop, you know, we got to stop on the, you know, the extra mortgage payments we're making, we got to stop on the 401k payment, we got to, you know, we got to stop those other baby steps to rebuild that that 6-month savings.

we have Ally where we do all of our savings, and then we have like Chase over here that has, you know, other things. And so, I wouldn't keep it with your normal day-to-day funds, but to your point, I mean, we recommend all the time you can keep it in a money market or you can keep it in a high-yield savings account. So, whatever feels right, but to Rachel's point, you do have that money, and so I think that you guys both have to give a little and take a little. You have to be willing to pull it out of a money market cuz for whatever reason that's making her feel some type of way, and then she's got to be fine with you putting it in someplace else that has a nice rate of return, you know, Ally's a great one.

we used to say back when cash was like the prevalent thing of the emergency fund, and it would be like, you know, don't put it in the sock drawer where the pizza guy can get it. Like kind of that joke that like it can't be so accessible that you just go and you can just get it, you know. You want to forget about it. Yes, you want it in a place really blessed because we don't argue about this.

This is just like, you know, we never argue about money. We never we don't have to. And it's just like, "What's the best approach, you know?" Yes. Yep.

I think I think for her to know she can get access to it if you guys need it for an emergency, number one. And number two, for her just peace of mind that there's extra money over here. It's for this. It's not going to get tied up in some stock deal that you're doing, Jason, here.

Or that Right, like it's like there's a level of like that's for the emergency fund, and we don't touch it. And I think Okay. Now, one one quick question. Now, do you pay off your primary first or your rental first when you're in the baby steps?

Primary. Okay.

Perfect. Awesome.

Thank you so much. Thank you for the call. That's a really, you know, that's an interesting thing, Rachel, because I do think that when it comes to savings, you know, you do have to keep it a little bit. It's got to be enough out of reach to where you don't quote accidentally spend it, but at the same time, it's got to be liquid enough to where if the water heater goes out and you can't cash flow it, you can get to it. So, you don't want to invest it.

And you made a good point earlier that And I don't think this was her I from what he was saying, but you also don't want to have a bunch of money so that you can be lazy with your budgeting and you spend more than you make, but it's okay cuz we got 10 grand over here.

We'll just get it. Yeah. Don't don't let it be a cushion for your everyday expenses. It's a cushion between you and life when the big stuff happens. That's your emergency fund, not to cover lifestyle. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, George Kamel here with a not-so-fun fact. Every American Social Security number, including our children's, has been hacked and is now on the dark web.

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e r.com.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. We are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

I'm Rachel Cruze, hosting with Jade Warshaw. And we're going to go to Brandon in Columbus, Ohio. Hey Brandon, welcome to the show.

Hey, how are you doing today? We're doing great. How can we help?

So, the reason I'm calling is um I can't seem to build any kind of wealth whatsoever. Mhm. What's happening? Tell us more. Well, well, you know um I got I got three boys and I got a wife that stays at home and I'm the only income. But I think I make okay money, but every time I try to build some wealth, you know, like something happens with the kids or Yeah. or something like that like Tell us about your income. What are you making every year?

Well, well, I'm a union electrician.

Okay. So, I make

about 15, 28 if I work on Saturdays.

Okay. work Saturdays. So, every month, if you look at your budget, how much is on that top item?

Um um my budget I I takes about 4,800

and some change maybe. Okay. But I think it's about 4,800.

Income-wise, that's what you're bringing in?

Income-wise, I'm bringing in maybe about six. Okay, so 6,000. Okay, and then do

you guys have debt?

Well, you know, I got I got my Jeep and

my old lady has her her van.

Yeah, is that on payments?

It I wish it wasn't, but it is. Yeah, that's fine. How much how much do you guys owe on on yours?

Well, well, my Jeep, I got maybe maybe

eight 8,000 left and on her van

we just had to get, so it's around 22.

Okay. How much did you just got it?

Yeah, we just got it maybe about a week ago. How much are your car payments in the on those both of those?

Well, that's where it's eating me. It is my Jeep. On my Jeep, I'm paying about four.

On her van, I'm paying around six.

Ooh, I bet you ooh, that's $1,000.

Okay, what else? So, you got the Jeep, the van, what else do you have? Are there credit cards? Do you have any other loans?

Um no, I really don't have loans. I mean

I mean, we got, you know, groceries and we got we got rent. Okay, so those that's fine.

Those are fixed expenses on your budget, but do you have any other debt, which is, you know, a lump sum of money that you owe? Um I mean maybe when I was younger let's I'll just keep it easy. I'll probably say maybe about 10 grand, maybe. What would it be? And credit cards? Oh No, it it it probably be a little bit of hospital and may maybe uh

uh and that's miscellaneous. I'm I'm sorry, I'm kind of lost for words. That's okay. That's okay. Like Brandon, how old are your kids?

I got a 10-year-old, I got a 6-year-old and I got a one about to be 2-year-old.

Okay, perfect. Okay, so here's the thing. I think you're having a hard time building wealth because your biggest wealth building tool is your income. And right now, $1,000 of your income is going or and maybe a little bit more is going towards your debt payments every single month.

And uh it sounds like I'm not sure, but it sounds like maybe you're trying to do a little of this, a little of that, a little of that over here. And the method that we teach you is going to give you focused intensity on one area at a time for the most part. So, Right.

That's the problem. I don't. I can't seem to save a dollar. Okay, so let's go

back to the the essentials here. I think the first thing here is the budget. You told me that out of $6,000 a month, it takes 4,800 to run your household. So,

that means somewhere along the way there's $1,200 left if you're doing your budget correct.

Right. But you just said you you can't find a dollar. So, something about that budget isn't adding up. So, let's kind of let Rachel and I give you a quick crash course with the budget. Yeah, because the the thing is with the budget, Brandon, is that it needs to be realistic. So, you keep saying you know, which I get. We Jade has kids, I have little kids, so stuff does come up, you know, when you're a family and there's multiple people you're keeping afloat.

Um so, either you need to redo the budget and say, "Okay, realistically, we need a kids line item because stuff is going to come up every month that we have to pay school fees, like whatever it may be." Yep, that we're going to put in um and then there also may be, Brandon, a you know, a time that you and your wife sit down and you say, "Okay, we're going to limit this budget and just because we feel like, you know, the kids need X, Y, and Z, we may tell them no right now." Um because your goal is going to be to get out of debt.

And so, that budget is really, really key in tightening up that budget uh is going to is going to be huge. So, that's going to automatically probably give you some of that breathing room of that $1,200 that we don't, you know, it kind of just disappears.

piece of this I would do, okay, so Rachel's telling you to tighten up the budget.

Yeah. what you're going next? Yeah, you just bought this car for $22,000 with a $600 payment a month, Brandon.

Sell it. Sell it. Yeah, because and we always say not to have anything with wheels and motors that is more than half of your annual income. And you guys are right over that. I mean, you're making 60.

Yeah, and I mean, you guys are you're you're you're close to that. You're at 30. I mean, like that's so you're it's too much. You have too much car. And I think you're feeling that, Brandon.

You're feeling that. And so, looking to say, "Okay, what are our options? What can we do that is different?" Um and it's probably going to be selling that van. Mhm. And yeah, and that's going to

take So, let's put this in the timeline.

So, the first thing you're doing what Rachel said, you're getting on your budget, you're getting a realistic budget, you're figuring out what can we cut so that this $1,200 is actually a reality. And it's you and your wife agreeing to that because you need that money so you can save up a little bit to get out of this car and get into a car that you can afford because no more car no more car payments, right? So, you need at least five, six thousand dollars to make this thing happen, at least, right? So, we're getting out of this car and then after that, it's okay.

We freed up $600, we can breathe a little bit, and maybe it's you picking up a side hustle. Your wife, she's got the 2-year-old at home, but there's, you know, at least it's one at home and not the others. And so, what can she do to bring in extra income?

how quickly you clean up this mess by deciding how much more money comes in because the ultimate goal is building wealth. The debt is standing in the way that you clear out the debt, and then you get yourself that emergency fund of three to six months saved. Now you're going to feel peace about day-to-day life, right? So, if an emergency hits you, you're fine.

And now you can actually start building wealth. You can start investing into your 401k if you have it. Start investing into a Roth IRA as an option, but we've got to get through baby steps one through three one through three first. I um have you looked into, you know, other small businesses in your area and what they're paying for electricians?

Well, um I mean, I've I mean, I've done I did solar for seven years and, you know, I I I have a little LLC with that.

But um I I mean, in realistically, until I hit a journeyman's card, you know, I'm not really there's really nothing out there that's maybe paying more. I mean, it may be a dollar. It may be two dollars, but it's nothing like jumping up another 10 to 12,000 dollars.

Yeah, cuz I was just curious if um you know, sometimes in the private sector there's um you know, other opportunities. Uh so, I just didn't know if you had explored that because cuz I think the goal too, Brandon, is um you know, you guys make 60,000. And yes, there's a level of intensity during baby steps one through three to kind of get you out of this hole, so there will be, you know, extra work here or there, all of that, but I think the goal is eventually to be able to live off of your income comfortably and enjoy it, be able to put some money aside for retirement, you know, do some of these things to enjoy your life.

then that's where a bigger conversation is. And you guys are renting right now, right? So, even home ownership um to be in the picture eventually, which I know can probably feels very overwhelming right now to think about, but um but to be able to to get there. But hey, um Brandon, I want you to hold on the line because Christian's going to pick up and I want to gift you guys Financial Peace University, you and your wife.

This is our nine-lesson course, and go through this and and again, it runs the gamut, everything from the budget to getting out of debt, all of it. And then, you know what? And hold on the line, too. Uh and Christian, we'll throw in some Chris Hogan's stuff. He has a great career assessments that would just be interesting, Brandon. And again, being an electrician making 60 grand, that's fabulous work and wonderful, but

um I think we I think people do get to a reality of, "Okay, how do I sustain my life?" Um and if you can ever make more, that's going to help it without completely shifting your lifestyle. So, just out of curiosity, maybe dig into some of that, too, um and see if that kind of triggers anything for you. So, thanks for the call, Brandon. You guys got this. Just stay on track. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruze hosting today with Jade Warshaw, and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next is Emily in Pensacola. Hey Emily, welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you so much y'all for taking my call. I appreciate it. Absolutely. How can we help?

Okay, so my husband and I um had gone through Financial Peace gosh over a decade ago, but you know, life happened and five kids happened. And right now we're back on it, but finishing up baby step number two.

Um we have no consumer debt, a little bit of student loans left that we expect to be paid off by the end of this year.

Um and then we'll just be left with our mortgage.

We are in a 30-year veteran loan, um

but we plan to pay it off early within hopefully 10 to 15 years. My question is, so right now we have My question is kind of regarding my credit score. We have four credit cards right now that are open but frozen. We have not used them in probably about a year.

Um we're kind of uh con- I guess not sure what to do with those accounts.

Um we're kind of leaving them open right now so that if we close them, they don't affect credit score. Our hope is that um

if we have the opportunity in the next few years to refinance to get a lower interest rate that we would do that in order to help us pay off our mortgage even quicker. Um but we're just not sure. Do we close our credit cards uh and if and risk that affecting our credit score? We like would that affect it drastically? Um or do we leave them open and frozen and kind of maintain our credit score? Um we just don't kind of want to tank it and lose that that chance to refinance in the future.

So So there is something to be said about um when you're going through the process of paying off debt, there's kind of this spoken or in some cases unspoken thought that okay, when we do this, we're not borrowing money again, therefore we wouldn't need our credit score again, therefore we can close our credit cards. And so in your case, you're kind of thinking about, well, we don't plan on borrowing money anymore, but we want to refinance.

And I can just tell you just from personal personal um situation, we have a mortgage and we don't have any other credit cards and we don't have anything else. And before we had our mortgage, our credit score went to zero. We purchased a home with a a

loan, and our credit is like almost perfect, and all we have on there is our mortgage.

So you might see an initial drop just because you're closing accounts, but it's not going to go to zero and it's not going to be terrible because you're still have something major like a mortgage that you're paying every single month on time. And so there is part of that that it's it's going to make it okay and it's going to keep it uh you know, in the upper range. And so I don't think you have to be worried about that. But I kind of my question for you is

um do you have any other qualms about your credit score? Cuz I I do think that when you go and set out to follow the Ramsey plan, you have to know eventually your credit score is going to go to zero and you kind of have to cut ties with that old way of thinking.

Mhm. Yeah, and I so ultimately like we do want our credit score to be undeterminable. Like that is our ultimate goal. We don't plan on taking out any more debt like you had said.

Like we have two cars, they're old, they're paid for, so we um have basically our credit cards are frozen in in a safe. So we we haven't even kind of activated the new ones that they send us all the time. Um but it's been more of a concern that um because that was our extended length of credit um attached to

some of these cards that you know, with wanting to potentially refinance in order to get the house paid off, um that we just didn't want to What's your interest rate now?

Uh like 6.8.

Okay. So you guys just recently bought in the last year or two. Okay.

Then if I were you, I'd cancel them sooner than later so that your score has the ability to kind of do what it's going to do and then even out to where it's going to even out. And then when the time comes, who knows when Yeah.

get lower, then you will have a clear indicator of what it will be and it won't be in that fluctuation stage.

Yeah, and Emily, when you look at the calculations of how a credit score is even mathematically determined, one of the pieces of the pie is new debt. And you guys aren't doing that. So in one sense, you got everything frozen, but you're not taking on new debt, so you're not playing the game naturally anyway.

So there is a chance even because of that mathematically speaking, you may even see a downtick slowly because you're not playing that game. And so if you're not playing it, I would just cut ties with it. And like what Jade said, even back out or, you know, if if all else fails, like you're going to be fine. You know what I mean?

So So in my head it is it's just a cuz that I don't want I don't want to count out there floating around even if they're frozen. No way.

And sadly, the truth is who knows who knows what's going to happen in the future. So I'd rather take things under my control and do something that I can do, which is just get rid of them, close it out, and then see how the world shakes out and then go from there. 100%.

next let's go to Kyle in Charlotte. Hey

Kyle, welcome to the show.

Hey, how are y'all? We're doing well.

How can we help?

So I got a little dilemma. I'm just been started watching uh the Ramsey Show probably 2 months ago, and I'm currently

in baby step one. I did um get the EveryDollar app and using that created a budget. Um So I have me and my fiance, we have a 3-month-old baby girl. Um she

has a 14-year-old daughter uh actually lives with us as well.

Um we bought a home about a 2 years ago.

Um mortgage is around 157,000 left on it.

Um she has two vehicle loans. Um one of them is around 18,000, the other one's around 8,000.

Um so she also has three credit cards um

and she has a personal loan. So all of

So I I don't have any debt currently in my name. Um but her debt all of her debt

together is around 42,000 Okay. not including the home mortgage.

Okay. So she stays home. She's a home stayed home mother. Um I'm a full-time firefighter. Um I have two part-time jobs as well. Um

and I'm cur- I'm trying to figure out, you know,

I'm I am going to snowball the debt after I do the baby step one, which that's baby step two, but I'm trying to get her on board with the with the the budget. When do you get married?

Uh we we actually aren't. I don't have a marriage date yet. That's what I was going to going to say as well. So our our relationship is actually hanging on by a thread because of, you know, we don't see eye to eye on the financial state. That's a big deal.

That's a big deal. Kyle, has that has that um has that changed in the last 2 months since you've been watching us or has it always been like that?

Um so it's been like that more since my my daughter was born. Um Okay. You know,

I'm I've always been a saver and, you know, now that my daughter's born, you know, I grew up my parents separated when I was 12. Um I've seen I'm I've I know how

that affects the the the kids, and I don't want that. Yeah. And, you know, I I I look at the future like anything can happen. So and

she she's not like that. Like I asked her the other day cuz I was listening, and I was like, you know, what is your 10-year goal?

Where do you see yourself in 10 years? And she's she's told me, she said, you know, I I just I worry about today. I don't worry about 10 years. And I'm like, you know, So when you ask her her philosophy on on

money, and you're asking her, hey, like, are you at a point in life where you're done borrowing? How do you feel about paying off debt? Is she able to give an answer that has any promise?

So she will say she don't want to borrow any more money, but it's just like now, you know, um she's made some financial decisions that I didn't agree with.

And, you know, I don't I don't have I didn't have the control over that at that point. Yeah. Well, it's Listen, she can do what she wants. The hard part is you guys are um in in a this situation is made more complex because you're not yet married, but you're kind of in this situation where your life seems like you're married. So you you feel like like Listen, I have to step in and pay off this debt. Her debt's my debt. And so the whole thing is very confused. And I think that as

much as you can put some clarity around that and either marry her or not, but I would not start paying off this debt until you've decided if this is the person that you're going to spend your life with. Yeah. Yeah, and Kyle, and I would have the conversation with her from a vulnerable you know, not just well, what are you you you pointing?

Tell her you. Like what's going on in Kyle? What is the fear that you have?

What is going on? And and and and start these conversations. And you've said this before, Jade, on different shows, but like it take it sometimes takes time, right? You've had a mindset, a natural shift, and then Ramsey's probably confirmed that cuz we lean probably more on your side, Kyle, but you guys together need to sit down and have these conversations.

But for now, keep the finances separate. You don't need to be paying on her debt cuz if she's not getting out of debt, she's digging herself deeper in a hole.

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Okay. Today's question comes from Matthew in Oregon. He says, "My wife and I are debt-free except our expensive townhome. We bought it in 2022 with a 30-year term mortgage. Our monthly payment is about $4,200 a month including escrow and PMI, while our net take-home pay is $8,750

a month. Wow. Our annual gross income is $110,000, which means our housing costs take up about 40% of our income, which

limits how much we can invest. We both have the potential for income growth, but today's high cost of living is challenging, especially with four kids.

We're in baby step four, five, and six, but still feel trapped. It's hard to see a finish line of no mortgage payment.

Should we stay where we're at and wait for our income to grow or sell our house

and move? Ugh. This is

This is one of those reality moments, Rachel, I think that if you're if you're truly um engaged in

what's going on financially in your home, these are the moments where it's like it's really tough because um for those of you who don't know, here we teach that your payment shouldn't be any more than 25% of your take-home pay. And the reason for that is once it creeps beyond that, especially beyond 30%, is you really do start to feel that, and you start to experience what we call being house poor, and your bless your blessing of a house now becomes a burden, right? Because you're not able to have the margin to do the things that life calls for.

I mean, in this case it could be anything from child care, it could be anything from they're wanting to pay off their mortgage, and they don't have any margin. Yeah, well, if you're in baby step four, you're funding 15% of your income in retirement. So, automatically, that's taking it you have 45% of your income to live off of. That's before food and utilities and everything.

So, it does it starts to dwindle not always like in the in the right spots, right? And so And if you give 10%, forget about it. That's right. Okay, that's right.

Now you're down to 35% and for basic living.

it's almost that feeling of like we work too hard to feel this broke. Mhm. You know what I mean? Like, we shouldn't feel like this. Mhm. Um and it is because 40% of your income is going to housing. And so um yeah, I mean, I I would be looking elsewhere cuz you say an expensive townhome, which I'm assuming is a really nice one. Um probably in a nice area.

Yeah. And so, I would be looking for other options. You know, you may be getting an older home. It may not be near the city cuz that's usually where prices go up cuz the closer you are to the city. Um so, you may be moving out and all of it, which I know with four kids. I know it's so easier said than done. Just be like, "Oh yeah, I'll get up and move." I know that that's like could be changing schools, all of this.

But the quality of your life and going to bed at night and having peace and not stressing and not being, you know, to this point of like on a like you just feel like, "Oh my gosh, I just go to I go to a job and I have no progress in my life." Like, that is daunting. That's for the birds. You go Look at about how much time you spend at work. You go to work all day, eight hours a day, some people far more than that.

And then you you feel like you have nothing to show for. You can't enjoy your life. You can't do the things that make you feel like you're making progress in life.

um a way for their income to go up. Now, there's been times people have called in the show and they're like, "Hey, uh I'm at 30% of my income, but I know that I have a raise coming up in the next 12 months. And if we get that raise, you know, it'll equal out." And so, there's a part of that where if they said, "Hey, we see a place where we're going to get uh you know, a 15% increase." Both of us.

Um but only if that's 100% absolutely going to be true. Yes. Yeah, don't be on a wish and a prayer of it maybe happening, and then you're stuck in the cycle for the next four to five years cuz that's going to be exhausting. Yeah. All right, let's go to Will in Miami. Hi, Will.

Welcome to the show.

Hello, how are you? Doing great. How can we help? Yes. So, uh my parent my my father bought a a car

two years ago. Uh this is a Mercedes.

He's a retiree uh surgeon. And he now works as a surgical

assistant.

Here, since all the recession that and

all the all the economic problems we've been going through the country, that area of health uh he hasn't been able to get a job on for the last year.

He has some stuff on and off, but he hasn't been able to have a stable job. Uh the payment for this car is $500

a month, $550 plus insurance.

That runs up to somewhere between $650

to $700 a month.

And because because he doesn't have a job right now, it's been really difficult to maintain all the expenses. What's he doing to maintain it?

I mean, right now all our family is working. We are immigrants.

And everybody contributes. Are you paying for your dad's car payment?

No, I'm not. I'm just saying that everybody's paying their fair share, but

uh the car right now is one of those

great expenses.

Are you in the same Are you all under the same roof? Yes. Okay. And so, explain to Rachel and I

kind of how that works. When you say everybody's paying their fair share, what does that mean?

So, between my sister and I, we our rent

is $3,000.

Uh my sister and I pay about half of

that. Okay.

And the rest of the expenses

are covered by our parents. Okay.

Although we didn't start paying until

recently, until about six months ago.

Uh my sister just graduated from college. I'm still a student.

Okay. How old are you, Will?

Oh, I'm I'm 28. I'm just a late bloomer student. That's fine. I was just I was just curious. That's great. Okay, so it's just you and your sister. The The agreement is we all kind of live under one roof, but together you guys pay for half of the rent, and we pay for the other half and everything else.

Yes. And so, you're concerned that since your dad is not working, how is he affording to pay for this Mercedes or this expensive car that he has?

I mean, to to be to be honest, like we cannot afford anything right now.

Even though we are able to cover the basics, that doesn't cover the credit card debts

my parents have. Mhm. That's that's why

I I believe that the car is one of the things that is

uh taking them down. So, the hard Oh, go ahead, Rachel. Well, so okay, a couple of things, Will. Um where did you guys immigrate from? I'm just curious.

Oh, uh we are originally from Venezuela.

Okay, yeah, yeah. We've been here for eight years. We are We became citizens last year. Okay. I I The only reason I ask is I do find even in the Hispanic culture, there is this like gathering of family, right? There is There is more than just the standard American that's like, "Oh, it's you know, Americans I just feel like we're more independent, and you just kind of, you know, you run you run on your own track.

Uh where other countries, other cultures, there is more of this like family-oriented life. Um so, I'm not saying one is wrong or the other, Will, but as a 28-year-old guy and I know you want to support your parents and and and be there for them and all of it. For your your own dignity, Will, as a man, um emotionally,

I do want you to somewhat separate what your parents have chosen with their own lifestyle versus what you're choosing, right? So, they've chosen to or he's chosen to have a Mercedes, okay? That's his choice. You have not done that.

The credit cards, I don't know if the credit cards are paying the light bill to keep the keep the the you know, the house going, that's one thing, but if it's credit card debt that's coming from your parents that charged their own cards for their own lifestyle, that is that is their money and their choices. Uh it does get a little bit confusing when you are living under one roof, so I think Will, emotionally, I would detach myself from your parents' choices. Um and until they start affecting you, which they might soon, Will, there may be a point that you say, "Hey, I'm going to have to make a different decision for my life." Yeah.

And I may have to go get a job, pause school, and do something different cuz I'm not going to be taken under because of their bad choices. But here's the thing, Will, Jade and I joked earlier, we were like, "There It takes a lot of therapy to realize you can't change people.

You're you're an awesome son and and we wish you the best. Thanks to all the guys in the booth, Jade. Thanks always for being a great co-host. Thanks to our live studio audience here in Nashville and thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships.

I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with

my good friend and best-selling author, Jade Warshaw. And we are here to answer your questions, so give us a call at 888-825- 5225.

We'll be talking about your life, your money, your jobs, your families, relationships, so give us a call.

All right, up first this hour, we have George in Los Angeles, LA. Hey, George,

welcome to the show.

All right, thank you for taking my call.

Absolutely. How can we help?

All right, so I have $140,000 in debt right now and also my wages are

being garnished already. I've been sued um from a loan I didn't pay.

They're taking 25% of my income every week. Um every 2 weeks, so I'm just taking a lot of money. Uh I make about 90,000 gross. Uh I take home about 75,000 a year. My wife recently started working. I'm doing everything I possibly can to take um you know, more income, everything, but I'm I'm already up to the point where I'm kind of thinking of filing bankruptcy or selling my house.

So, I'm thinking what what's the better option, either to sell the home or file for bankruptcy. Okay, so tell me what was um what what's the debt, the 140?

Uh basically three loans, two personal loans. They're one of them's 50,000, the other one's another 50, and the other one uh is 40. Um one of them was 20,000. One

of them was a car, but I'm thinking I'm still I want to pay the car off, so I'm not going to put that one. The 20,000 is the car?

Yeah, one of them was 20,000. That one's still good. I'm paying that one off and the other is just all personal loans.

What were the loans for? What'd you use them for? Uh I got hurt a long time uh when I was

working and I needed a couple I needed some money just just to stay afloat my mortgage, so I just took out a lot of some loans and just kept paying it off, but then another one I took out to consolidate debt and ended up just splurging the money. Didn't really do what I had to do, so When does your wife and then When does your wife start adding to the income cuz you're making around 6,000 a month? Uh I started working like 4 months ago. And what's she making?

About um I would say 1,600 a month. Okay.

Okay. What is she doing?

Job-wise? Uh she just work she just works at at a a veterinary place. Okay. Do you guys have kids?

Yeah, two. You have two, okay.

Okay. And which of the loans are the ones that are garnishing your wages?

Uh it's just from a bank. It's the personal the one of the personal one of the 50,000?

Yeah. Okay.

And are both of those personal loans with the same bank?

No. No, okay.

And have you been current on the other $50,000 loan?

No, I'm I haven't paid anything for to anybody for a while already.

Okay. Okay. And so you've got the house Everything's everything's in collections basically except the car and the house.

So, they're they're taking almost $2,000 a little under $2,000 a month, right, garnishing from you. Yeah. And then Exactly. Yeah. what percentage of your mortgage is what percentage of your take-home pays your mortgage?

Uh I pay 1,800 a month for my mortgage.

Okay. Okay. Um oh boy. All right.

Yeah, we need you're you're not able to do anything here.

Um

Okay. So, the key here is we've got to find a way to get more money coming in and I'm wondering with the garnish, if is there any way that you can say, "Can we set up another payment play program because this one is like burying me alive." I tried everything already, spoke to lawyers. I I've done everything on my part to I just make some adjustments.

I've done pretty much all I can do. I even even if I get another job, they're still going to garnish, so at this point I'm I'm already maxed out. It's just I don't see like uh like another solution. They're they're just not budgeting at all. How old are your kids?

Uh one of them's eight and another one is five. Okay. Um is the 5-year-old in

kindergarten? Is anybody in daycare is what I'm getting at. They're both being homeschooled. Oh, that's right. Okay.

It okay. Um There's part of this that and you you and your wife are going to have to sit down. I mean, you're pretty much up against it and you could use all of the the money that you can get. Um Right.

Is there any way that cuz I I don't know

I'm not going to pretend to know a ton about homeschooling, but I know that there's some programs where even though they're not going into school, they're going into a program that's outside of your home. Like a co-op type Like a co-op type situation. Is there a way that you can still keep the value of homeschooling, but it's not your wife that's actually doing it, so that she can work

Um full-time? That's something I haven't I haven't thought about. I and I'm not saying forever, but I think that you're in a you you're back is against the wall and unfortunately when that happens, something you have to let go of something. Something has to change in order for you to change your situation and usually that is a sacrifice of some nature and there's just no getting around it.

All right. But I'd rather you keep control of the situation. Once you and Rachel, you can speak more to this, but once you hand it over to bankruptcy, you lose control and I don't want you to lose control of the situation. I want you to make every choice and feel like you have a say in everything that's going on.

Okay.

Um for the house, George, give me some of the numbers around that. What how much how much do you owe on it? How much is left on the mortgage? Uh the house is

right now at 390 is what we owe and five

it's worth about five almost 600,000.

Almost 600, okay.

Um Yeah.

You know, the car, I would probably I would sell the car, George. I know you're pay- making payments on it, but that's something that can easily be swapped up to to earn

some money and margin back into the budget that you can go back and get later after all of this, but again, back to that sacrificial mindset, like what can you squirt stir earth do to have any means to be able to

get ahead on some of this cuz some of it isn't this in collections and keeping a car payment afloat um is something that I I would because I mean, everything else is is in collections and if you get on that, I don't want even re- you know, being repoed on. Like I don't want anything like that. Like you're in a little bit of that situation that again, back to that control that Jade's talking about. Um how much could you sell the car for? Have you Kelly Blue Booked it?

Uh yeah, I I think I could sell it for like maybe 18 18 grand around there.

Okay. 18,000. It's I and I owe like about 18,000, so I mean, I could break even Yeah, great. on that one. It's It's just, you know, I mean, that's not I mean, I I guess I could do something like that. I mean, what's the payment on it?

It's just uh 500 a month. That's a lot.

Okay. I mean, $500 to have that freed up is a big deal. And if you are upside down, like this is one of those cases if you're upside down, you go down to the credit union, get a loan for the difference and a little bit more in order to get yourself a beater if you need it. And I'd rather have a $5,000 loan than a $20,000 loan, agree?

Correct. Plus, you freed up $500, you know, a little bit less than that a month when you take into consideration the new payment. Um yeah, you're going to have to make some tough choices. Mama's probably going back to work. You're probably getting rid of this car and you might have to consider what's And a part-time job, and then and then the house, yeah, could be could be in the in play. But I just want your habits to change as well, George. Uh but you guys got this. This is the Ramsey Show.

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All right, everybody, you're listening to the Ramsey Show. I'm your co-host, Jade Warshaw, joined by Rachel Cruze.

And during the break, we were talking about non-negotiables and so many of us face this, whether you are dating someone and, you know, you have to bring up those conversations, Rachel, about money, about, you know, religious views, possibly political views. Like there's all these tough conversations to have, and when do you

know when you're dating somebody, when you get to that point that's like, okay, this is I've hit my point, right? Like we talked to somebody who was in a relationship for 3 years, and it's like, okay, maybe now's the time to start looking at this, talking about this.

But it's hard to know, especially if you

might see a little bit of progress and you're like, yes, this is progress, maybe we're going on the right direction. But what would you say, Rachel, is let's

let's let's call out some red flags of if you see this Mhm. this might be pump

the brakes. Money-wise. I was like, I don't know if I'm not a marriage therapist. I don't know if I No, I'm talking about finances.

Yes. Um I would say I always pump the brakes with people that feel like they have all the answers. Mhm. Like when it's this idea that like I I I don't have any more learning to do.

Oh. Like I'm kind of just stuck in my This is it. I'm good. And you're like, you don't want to grow or stretch or like hear something different?

Like to me in life right now, that feels so prideful. Yes. With money, and we get this call a lot with people that as we're talking about non-negotiables, so I guess this is a little bit on the other side of this. But this idea that, you know, we we talk and they're like, well, you know, he just tells me like he doesn't want to talk about it.

He's not going to talk about it. Or she doesn't she won't even she won't even enter the discussion. I'm like, That's exhausting. Like that's exhausting.

So, you can have your non-negotiables, but be but be humble about it. It's the spirit that you bring to it.

to me about Ramsey this, Ramsey that.

And whenever I try to tell her my views on why I want to keep my mortgage payment and invest it instead, she's so close-minded. Like she doesn't want to hear she feels like she's found this plan and that's it. Like there's no like let's talk about it from that point of view. I'm her. I would be like, okay, so talk me through that. Let's run some numbers.

Let's look. Let's have a conversation.

Mhm. Right? Not just you telling him, well, this is what it is. This is what you should be doing. mentality.

Um yeah. Being willing to listen. Very

much so. And ask questions. And ask questions. Be curious. Like that whole spirit as a person Mhm. I think is really important. But when you're so closed off and you don't even want a conversation, that to me is the big That's exhausting. Like, you know, that would be a red flag for me. I think they won't even they won't even talk about it. They avoid it, you know, all of this stuff and you're just like, oh man.

Yeah, I think that's a red flag. I think if you're talking about the future, like say you're dating and you're talking about, okay, like when we get married, you know, what are your views on combining money?

Mhm. Like maybe they maybe they've been very open about their money up until this point and you're like, yes, everything's going good. But then when you start thinking about, okay, when we get married, how is this going to work? Cuz I my thoughts are that we would combine our money and kind of have our goals together and if they're saying, oh, really?

Because I've worked really hard for my savings and Yep. that for me would be tough. would be tough. I add it add it a non-negotiable.

I think it's a non-negotiable, but there's part I'm not going to lie, there's part of me that wonders if there could be a journey there Mhm. over time. Yep.

So, these are you know, these are tough conversations, but I I would urge people to start having them early. If there's one thing that I can say that I kind of feel like I learned in my marriage is we didn't talk about that dating. Yes. Our

dating time was very fun and not a lot

of like We I mean, we talked about heavy stuff, but somehow the financial stuff just wasn't really in there. And then after the fact, it was like, oh, wait a minute. Luckily, there were certain things that we just naturally aligned on. Thank goodness. But yeah, have those

conversations.

Yeah. And And I would say debt would be one of those. I mean, it would be really tough to marry somebody and they're like, hey, I want to go, you know, $500,000 in debt to do real estate. And I'll be like, Oh, no, I can't do that. I can't do that. I can't do that. Yes. It's like that would stress that would be cuz then you live as the spouse in the stressful state 24/7, you know?

In investment world, I'm saying not just primary home, but it's like I I cuz I see these people on Instagram, TikTok, and they're all about real estate investing. Leveraged to their eyeballs. Yes, and I just watch that. I'm like, oh my gosh, that would be so hard.

It that would be a tough that would be a tough marriage for me. That is because on the one hand, and I mean, even if it's not real estate, even if it's just one person like, I have this business goal or this aspiration. I want to open a restaurant, whatever it is, but their viewpoint is I go into debt to do this. And if you're the spouse who says, hey, I I don't feel comfortable with debt, I don't like debt, and they view that as you're not supporting my dream or you're not Mhm.

Like you don't believe in me. You don't believe this is going to work and we'll be able to pay it off. That right there, Yes.

tough conversation to have. Yes. Now, don't get me wrong, I still stand my ground because I feel like I'm not like, can we do it over time? Is there a way to not leverage debt? Yes. Yes. Ooh, goodness. All good things are to talk of. It's hard and Ooh. Good stuff. All right, let's go to the phone lines where we've got Anna in Houston, Texas. What's going on, Anna?

Anna? Hello. How are you guys doing?

Doing good. How are you? Sorry I said your name wrong. It's Anna, right?

You're okay. It is Anna. Mhm.

Um so, I have a question and I'm hoping that y'all can kind of help me out cuz I've been thinking about it for a little while. Mhm. Um I am expecting to get a

raise here soon, within the next maybe 2

months, um at work, and it's about I'm

hoping like 20,000 extra a year.

Um I'm not certain though if I should

save that amount every year or use it to pay off my student loan debt. That's awesome. 60 Yeah, I have about $65,000 of student loan debt that I just um accrued here recently um going back to

school to get my master's. Mhm.

Um and it's just me and my kids. I don't

get child support. How many kids? Um I

have three. Okay.

One my son is um 19 though now, and so

he's um he wants to go to school. That's a whole 'nother situation and needing a little bit of money for that. Yeah. But I guess my question is just

should I save that extra 20 a year

for me and my kids just like for security type stuff. Mhm. Or should I um

just use it all to pay off the student loan debt? Cuz I don't want it to go from 65 to $200,000.

Of course, and that's a great way of thinking. Number one, congratulations on the raise. That's excellent. Um so, if you're kind of new to the Ramsey Show, we we teach everything kind of through a series of baby steps, right?

There's these seven baby steps that you can take that build on each other um to ultimately get you to this place of financial peace, right? And so, Yep. the advice that I'm going to give you is based on that.

So, if you can just out of that $20,000 raise or out of your bank account or whatever you have of money now, if you

can just set a thousand dollars aside and just, okay, I've got that there. And then the second baby step is, yeah, you pay off your debt because when you pay off debt, you're eliminating that risk, you're eliminating that financial uncertainty that's in your life. And that that's usually the point of stress that people feel is, oh my gosh, I've got to make these payments or these debt collectors are calling me or my payment is due, right? That's usually the source of stress that people um feel when it relates to their money.

So, in your case, I would say, if you've got this extra money, congratulations. Let's put it to whatever baby step you're on so that you can keep going in the right direction to get to that ultimate financial peace. And it sounds like in your case, you would be on baby step two where you are paying off the debt.

Um so, I make about 4,000 a month. It's

about 60,000 a year. Okay. Um

And And then with the $20,000 will come, so that'll be about 80.

Mhm. Okay, great. And I already I have this I have the emergency fund, and I even have about 30,000 in a CD account

that I put up one of I sold my house last year. So, I have that saved.

Okay. That's great.

I mean, I would put the Anna I would It's going to make you nervous, but I would put that towards your debt. And that will take a huge chunk out of this debt, and you're going to make great I mean, you're going to make 80 grand.

So, you have $35,000 left. I mean, you could pay this off in 18 24 months.

Yeah. And honestly, when that CD matures, I'd probably put that towards the debt and knock it out. 65,000

I I would do that. And then once the debt is gone, I'd save back up that money. And I just keep it in a high yield to where it's like very liquid. Um

but yeah. Listen, I'm proud of you. I think that you're doing all the right things. You've got good instincts and good intuitions. Yes, you're doing great. Taking great care of your family. Mhm.

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All right, you're listening to the Ramsey show. If you want to give us a call, it's a live show, so you can do that. The number is 888-825-5225 will get you on the line. Again, I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me is Rachel Cruze. We're the ones that'll be taking your calls this hour. So, let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Samantha in Phoenix, Arizona. What's going on, Samantha?

Hi. Thank you guys for taking my call.

You bet. Um I am new to the baby steps,

um and I was technically on baby step two, um but I left an abusive relationship, and I'm going through a custody battle right now, so I've incurred additional debt for attorney fees. So, I'm trying to figure out my next steps going forward. Um should I pause making additional payments like towards my debt and just work on saving money for additional attorney fees that might come up?

Yeah. I I would. This is definitely a storm. I mean, we I would categorize this as a storm, and we do say that when you're in baby step two especially, there's a couple of things that would cause you to kind of pause, and that would be a baby on the way or some sort of storm or major emergency that is causing you to kind of have to just hold hold tight for a minute.

becomes more of a priority at that point than paying off debt, right? We're all about paying off debt, but your child is a priority there, right? If there's a health issue that you have to pause to make sure that you can get yourself in a healthy place, that is you know, yeah, pregnancy, like anything that is um takes precedent, right? Which is usually a relational situation or a health situation.

We for sure say pause um and get that in order. I'm so sorry, Samantha. Um I'm I'm always so impressed with women like you that that choose to to step out of a situation like that cuz that cycle can be so um so hard to break out of. Uh how long has this been going on?

Um so, going on 2 years. The first part

was when he tried to fight the restraining order. So, that was the first time I took on attorney fees, and then now and I he was he was in jail for a bit for violating the restraining order, but now he's out, so now he's trying to come for full custody. Oh my gosh. How many kids do you have?

Luckily, I only have one. Okay. Me and my daughter, but it's still a lot. How is your like financial situation? How is your home situation?

Um so, I currently rent and am safe. Um

luckily, I'm with family, and I make about 52,000 a year. Good. Um but my

debt went from I got it down to 12,000, and now it's back up at 20. So.

Okay. And what are you Is that just the out- Is that just the 20,000 is the attorney fees?

No. So, um about 10,000 of it was attorney fees. Um 6,000 was about credit card, three about uh student loans, and then about 2,000 left on my car loan.

Okay. Um Do you have any Do you have any savings right now that you're pulling from or are you just pretty much incurring the debt as the attorney fees come up?

So, I was able to pull from like 401k um

to kind of help with this cuz it was so I wasn't expecting it. You know, I thought after the restraining order was standing that that was going to be it.

Um so, I wasn't expecting this.

So, I was able to get a little bit of help through that, but of course, I I

want to pay all of this back as quickly as possible, but my biggest fear is I don't know what's going to happen 3 to 6 months from now to the you know,

next year as well. Right. Okay, so are you still in the middle of this then?

I am, yeah. Okay. And has your has your lawyer given you any time frame by any chance? Like do you know I mean, you're saying 3 to 6 months, you know, um like does he have any conclusion of like when this will end?

No. No, because we're still waiting on

mediation, um and then more than likely that nothing's going to happen in there because my ex of course, he's not going to agree to anything. Mhm. Um Does your ex have a lot of money? Is that why he's trying to Is he trying to drain you out on this?

I yeah, they think so. Okay. Because yeah, he comes from money, so he knows that I would do anything to protect our daughter. Um so, he knows that I'm willing to

you know, force you know, figure out ways to get the money because he he knows I'm I'm not going to represent myself. I'm not in the position to do that, you know, emotionally and so Mhm. What um Is there anybody around you that has the ability to help with this? That wants to?

Cuz the truth is this is costing you money, and it's costing you money that you don't have.

And I do believe like I'm I believe that

the custody is going to end up with you because from what you're telling me, there's clearly track record that this is an abusive person, especially the fact that he's ended in jail for trying to violate this. So, I I have a feeling that this will end with you, but how long can you go down this track?

Do you see what I'm saying?

Yeah.

Yes, so Samantha, so I Yeah, if I were you, um if I was in your position right now, I would stay current on everything.

I would not get behind. So, I would say I would be paying your minimum payments on everything, and then on the side finding that margin um month to month to be able to put some money aside. So, as these fees come up, you do have an account that you're going to be able to pull from.

Um and then I would also start to evaluate as much as you can the um

consistency of how often the bills are

coming, how often you guys are you're using the lawyer, if there is mediation, and all of it. Um because I think a goal would be small goals would to say, "Okay, there's some money set aside for attorney fees." And the truth is I may have to go into debt for that, but if I can at least maybe knock out that $2,000 car loan in the midst of this, right?

Because it's not something that's going to be solved that sounds like even maybe even the next 12 months. So, I don't want you sitting idle financially during that time, but I do want you to put some cushion between you and life. So, putting some money away um kind of for an emergency fund that you can pull some of that for attorney fees as they come up, but then also giving yourself a goal financially to start making some progress.

Absolutely. I mean, you There's only 2,000 left on the car. What's the payment on that? What will you get back in your pocket monthly when you pay that off?

Uh so, I pay about 296 a month for the car loan. Good. So, another $300, that's great. To Rachel's point, that's even more money that you you'll be able to set aside.

Um so, yeah. Like no disguising the fact that this is tough, and you know, you've got your work cut out for you in a lot of ways, but I think just being really intentional, still sticking to still creating a plan and sticking to that plan, whatever you decide that plan is, is going to be really paramount for you walking through this. That's so so so so tough. I know.

Ugh, tough to walk through. All right.

Uh Do you want to try to take another call right quick? Let's try it. Caleb in Norfolk, Virginia. What's going on, Caleb?

Hey. Thanks for taking my call. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. How can we help?

Um so my question is regarding life insurance. I'm currently in the military, but I'm getting out in about 3 months. I have life insurance through the military.

It's called super service members group life insurance. I pay about $31 a month for a $500,000 policy. My question is whenever I get out, I have the option for a limited time really to roll that over into what's called veterans group life insurance, which is about $35 a month.

Um and that will, you know, increase about every 5 years.

Um I'm 26 now. I have no debt, but really

I'm just unsure cuz I don't have a a wife or children that I don't really have anybody relying on my wage but me, so I'm just kind of looking for some guidance here. Yeah, I mean Kim, I don't think you really have to re-up this or roll it over. I mean, I I wouldn't. The reason really you have life insurance is if someone is dependent upon your income.

So that would be a spouse or children.

And as a single person, I mean, I would have some money, you know, set aside that if something were to happen to you that covers funeral costs and that kind of thing, but I don't think you need a life insurance policy for that. So I probably would just end up canceling it once you get out. I agree. I agree with that statement. And if you don't have to pay it now, I wouldn't pay it now.

Forget the rollover. I would get out of it now if I could cuz you really don't need it.

All right. That does it for that. Yeah, I think people forget all the time Rachel that there's a perfect purpose to life insurance. It's not necessarily to

um make you rich or all of these other things. It's for anybody who's dependent on your income. If something happens to you, how do they make life work? Right?

for. Children, spouses.

And term life is so inexpensive. It sounded like some of those rates, you know, it's it's just not expensive at all. And so yeah, if someone's dependent upon your income, make sure you get life insurance. You can go to xander.insure.com and check it out there because that's a great place to get your term life.

Welcome back to the Ramsey show. Let's

go to Anne in Pittsburgh. Hi Anne,

welcome to the show. Hi.

How are you today? Hi, we are doing well. How can we help?

Well, I hope you can help. That's my question. Is there any hope for our situation?

We have been married 19 years. We're in our 50s. We have one special needs son.

Um we're both self-employed. I have a business from home, which has been very helpful with our son and being home when he gets off the bus, all that kind of stuff. My husband has always controlled 99% of the finances. Um I don't have My

name is not on the bank account. My name I don't have a login.

Our His business and our home bills are combined on the same account, which I know probably should not be that way.

Um we have a home loan of about 243.

If sold, it might be worth 700,000.

Um the big problem I I came to realize

is that our credit cards are 209,000.

Wow. We have a car loan for 21.

And um some of the credit cards are his business only, but as far as I'm aware, you know, in certain states your your debt is your debt and half and half debt debt and assets. So I guess I'm trying to figure out I I can't get through to him. Um he just

blows up when I try to say, "Hey, let's try a budget. Hey, here's all the credit cards on an Excel spreadsheet that shows all the percentages." Like it's just um kind of banging my head on a wall and I don't know how to protect myself, how to protect my son. Um the only good news is that I do have a 401k

that that is in my name from before we were married. And then we also have I have a little bit of savings. And then he does have um a life insurance policy, God forbid anything happens, but um he's he's not well mentally and he's been you know, threatening a lot of things and um I thought I should try and get some advice. Are you thinking about walking away from this?

At this point, I I really can't right

now. I can't right now. My business is here on the property. Um and if I would

leave the other thing is I would be taking my autistic child away from the only home he knows. Mhm. Um that he's had his whole life, his dogs, his everything that's comfort to him. And your husband's not Is he It's I'm guessing

based on what you said.

I think he knows that that he's in the toilet. I think he realizes I mean, he's paying the minimums on the credit cards. That's it.

And where is the where is the revenue of your business going, Anne? What account is that going into?

It's going in with everything else. We I mean, I don't make much.

Last year he I had it written down here. Last year um Hey, do you suspect that there could be IRS debt as well? Cuz when you tell me that all the business bills and all the personal bills and everything's together, that sounds like a mess.

Um I don't. I think he's pretty OCD about keeping track of stuff. Last year's gross income was 233, but then by the time we got to the bottom of the income, the income is 26,000.

Once he takes off depreciation, vehicles, all that kind of stuff.

of business does he have?

Um he's an electrical contractor. So he's making 26,000 a year. He's paying himself 26,000.

Technically, yeah. And it's just him. He doesn't have employees.

And what about you?

I just myself. And what what do you bring in? What's your payment from your business? Um I'm I'm lucky if I bring 10,000 or less. So you guys combined are living

off of 36,000 and you've got the 21,000

in car debt and how much in credit cards? 206?

209. 209. Okay. And is there anything

else that you think might be out there not including the mortgage? Um No. And out of that 209, 40k is his

just for his business, but of course I'm pretty sure I'm liable for that as well.

But everything else. And so is he using these credit cards to keep you guys afloat just month to month? Yes. Yeah.

Yep. And when you said he's not mentally well, what do Do you mind going into a

little bit more detail on that?

there's increased um alcohol.

Um Just um you can tell there's depression.

He's upset. He'll even mention the debt.

He'll mention, "My wife told me that we're this much in debt." And you know, "She must be full of it. I don't believe it." He'll say this in front of his best friend and it's like, "Oh my god, now he's like sharing it with folks." I think he's embarrassed. I think he doesn't know what to do. Yeah, I do too.

Yeah. So I think you know, Anne, it it just sounds like um my first protection is for you. And the fact that you don't have any access to anything, Anne. I mean, there could be there could be a whole other life he's living, right?

I mean, on on on different levels, on different scales, financially, not.

Um because the money is kind of the paper trail to a degree on life and and being able to see that and you have no access to that. Um which is a hard line

I draw. You have to be able to have access and be have everything visual

that you see. I mean, it's one thing if you're like, "Oh my gosh, she's a spender. I'm a saver. I don't know what to do." It's a whole other thing, Anne.

You cross another line into another level of seriousness when you don't have the ability to access your money.

And so so this is a it's it's a it's a

um it's a more serious weight there that I that I hold now in this conversation um

that that creates more ultimatums. And I hear you say like I can't leave, all of that. And but what what I would do is is that there's other ultimatums in this marriage that has to change because you

you don't you're not safe at that point, right? Right. How'd you find out about the 209?

Just curious. Um Did he tell you or you discovered it?

Oh, he did not tell me. I I discovered it. I started going through his files.

Okay. made like the biggest Excel spreadsheet you ever want to see in your life. And I just you know, tried talking to him. And you know, we were okay there for a while. Oh, I'm I'm I'm paying it down.

I'm paying it down. And then, you know, once a year I'd pull these files again and and get everything sorted. And I did it again this year and I said, "This this is He's to the point now where everything is minimums." Yeah, for me this falls into what I what I would call a level of financial abuse and infidelity because he's keeping everything on his side. He's making moves without sharing them with you. And they're at the detriment to you and your family and your son. And I would push

back on the fact that there's nowhere for you to go. There's always an option.

Um but I can guarantee you this, it is not going to be a comfortable option. There's going to be no peace of it that feels comfortable or easy or um Right.

You know what I'm saying? So I do think that you have to give yourself an ultimatum. And you need to say, "All right, what am I going to do? What are my limits? What are my boundaries? And what is my time frame for me to and what

what is an indicator that this is

moving forward or that it's staying the same? Like Does that make sense? You have to have something very real and very measurable for this situation."

Yeah. Right. Right.

So whether that's whether that's I'm going to offer counseling and I'm going to give him 60 days to agree to it or I'm going to

ask him for these account passwords and I'm going to ask him for, you know, complete transparency and I'm going to give him 45 days to to wrestle with that and get to that point. You've just got to make it very clear, write it down on paper. If you have a friend, get a friend. If you have a pastor, find a pastor, but you need somebody who knows.

Does anybody else know this is going on besides us two girls on the radio?

Yes. Yeah, a few a few friends, close friends and family members. And what are they suggesting? What are they saying since they know the situation even more?

Um and they know him and and they know he's not he's not right. He's Yeah. You know, I'm married to a 37-year-old man who was set in his ways and unfortunately he is a collector. He

and that's where the money has gone. He collects things and um to the point I said, "Can we sell some stuff?" You know, So, is he hoarding, too? Like are you in that sort of a situation?

No. Okay. No, it's just enormous collections of things that are really our only hope. This These assets that could help us get out from under this, but um he's not willing to touch the I'm not selling any of my stuff, he says. Like, oh, that's great cuz years ago he did. He would sell his stamp collection or he would sell some other collection. just seeing a deterioration.

So, Anne, I would I would I would bring in a third party in that and and again and it's it's so hard to say this on this side of the desk cuz now and we you know, we have to go, but you're going to be living this life, but not only is it a secret, but you're also behind. You're trying to live on $34,000 a year as well. So, there's there's two ends of this that are really urgent. So, I'm so sorry.

Um I hope this was helpful to give him some ultimatums. Um but I so so appreciate the call.

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## 284. Your Payments Are Keeping You From the Life You Want | May 22, 2026


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| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 11:31:04 |

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life from the from the

Ramsey Network in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. This is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Jade War. Next to me, George Camel, taking your calls uh really for the next 3 hours. Triple825-5225

is what will get you on the line. And we hope that you do choose to call in cuz we'd love to hear from you. All right, George, you ready to do this? came on.

>> James is in Riverside, California.

James, you are on the line. How can we help today? >> Hello. I was calling in. I watch you guys' show a lot. I watched George's YouTube channel. I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to pay off payday loans.

>> Oo. >> I have 10 altogether.

>> That's a monster. My goodness. How >> I've seen I've seen someone call in about them, but never this many.

>> Wow. Um, how how did you Let me just ask. How did you get in a situation where you were needing to go to these places 10 different times?

>> I had some car troubles a couple maybe a little over two years ago and I needed to pay rent. So there was one down the street from me. So I seen it and I walked in there and to get to try to get a loan and they gave me that >> man. >> And then it spiraled into getting behind

again. So I got end up getting another one then another one. But altogether it's four four payday loans where I walk

into a store and do it and then I got stuck with the ones on the apps on the phone. So I got six of those.

>> Have you deleted these apps? Like I know you're still paying on them, but I'm scared you're going to go get an 11th one. >> That's right. Yeah.

No, I got Yeah, me too. I got all the ones I could possibly get. So, for listeners listening, we hate payday loans because number one, most people they're borrowing somewhere from $100 to $1,000, right? These are small loans, but they're usually due in a very short period of time.

Sometimes they're due in two weeks, sometimes they're due in four weeks. But the main kicker >> by the next payday, that's where they get the name. >> The main kicker is, guys, the the the interest rate, the APR on these is anywhere between 300 and 600% many times. >> But they don't know that cuz it's just a fee.

Oh, it's a $45 fee. Yes. To get this small loan. And when you actually factor in what that's costing you, >> Yeah.

>> no one can get out because the loan >> grows. It just grows. >> And by the next payday, you don't have enough to cover it. So, you go take out another one, right?

To try. It's just whack-a-ole. And so, that's where James has found found himself. >> You borrow $500, you add the $75 fee, and now you owe $575.

Like, that's bananas. So, James, how much do yours total? Do you fall in line with this or tell me what yours are?

>> I'd love that. >> The four the four that I go to in store, they let you borrow maximum 255, but I have to pay them back 300. So, every two weeks I got to pay that. So, that's about 190 every two weeks. So, almost 400 just on those two a month.

>> Wow. >> And then the phones, the phone ones I

>> Let me see. I got it written down. The phone ones are just different numbers. The the smallest one is 100 and I pay $5 in

interest for that every two weeks.

>> And then the next one is

300 and I pay $13 in interest.

>> Next one is 350. I pay $1050 in

interest. >> The next one is 240 and I pay 35 in

interest. And then the next one is 250

and I paid 19 in interest.

>> Oh my goodness. That is >> So what's the total balances of all these 10 payday loans >> if I would pay them all off today?

>> Yeah, >> the four are 1,200 and then the other

are 12

1350. So >> okay, about 2500 bucks would clear these. Yeah, it's about 2500.

>> And do you have any money in the bank right now? >> I don't. I tried to like listen to your guys's steps like save up a thousand. I tried that twice. I think this is such high interest. I should pay these off.

But like I saved up a thousand twice and end up emergency come up. So I would use that.

>> I think James that the baby step is not the issue. I think it's your income that's the issue because obviously not having the money for car repairs, whatever is going on with with the vehicle is what caused you to get into this mess in the first place. And that's also the thing that's holding you back from getting the $1,000 saved and being able to hold on to it. So I I'm hearing two issues.

I'm hearing a cash flow issue, so an income issue, and I'm also hearing a lack of financial planning issue, which sounds like a budgeting issue. So let's talk about those two things. Do you have a budget?

>> I make about a little over 4,000 a month. >> And is it just you?

>> I have a girlfriend also and two kids.

>> Okay. Girlfriend and two kids. And you guys are all living together. It's one household. >> Yeah. Apartment. >> Okay. Uh is she contributing financially or no? >> Yeah. She goes, she basically covers all the like the lights, gas, food, and she

goes half with the rent with me.

>> So why is I cover? >> Why is there a huge issue? Because if I'm hearing somebody who is in a shared financial situation, you've got 4,000 a month, you're splitting rent, she's covering all the basic utilities. Where's your money going? Tell us tell us more. Tell us about all your other debt. >> B um no other I just have one credit card I pay every month. I have storage,

phone bill. Then another big problem I was going to bring up next is I have a car loan >> that I'm underwater in. >> How much? >> And I'm also behind on >> Do you still own that car?

>> Yeah, I still have it. I'm about 12,000 underwater. >> What's it worth?

>> It's worth about 8,000.

>> Okay. So, you owe 10 and a half. 20.

>> Yeah, I owe about 19.

>> 19. And what's the payment on that?

>> Payment's 530.

>> Yeah, that's messing with you.

>> And um I just realized just about a month ago, that's why I gave you guys a call also that I was behind a lot and I

didn't know that the it's like a big fee of interest when you're late also on top of the other interest. So it was basically like a little over 150 and late fees every month occurring.

>> Mhm. What about your rent? What are you guys paying in rent? cuz still I'm wondering where this money is going.

>> It's 1,800.

>> That's your half or that's the full amount? >> That's the full rent. >> Okay. So, yeah, we've definitely got to find out where your money's being spent.

So, second question, do you have a budget? I'm guessing no.

>> I tried the budget with the app, but it's just so confusing with all these other fees and other stuff.

>> Okay. So, what I want you to do, I want you to give it another shot because I think you just need a little help tweaking it. When it comes to the fees and everything, just plug in the minimum payments. That's all you need to do.

There's a section you list all of them out. It'll ask you what the minimum payment is that you pay. Just fill that in. And then from there, we can figure out how much margin you actually have cuz I think that you have more than you think you have.

And then we can see a full number because the way we want you to tackle this is with the debt snowball, which means you're only paying minimum payments on everything. And then smallest to largest, we're taking the very smallest debt and all of our extra money goes on the smallest debt.

you're just going to have some stupid tax that you're going to feel in way of interest. But the key here, James, is you need to throw more money at it than the balance is acrewing, which means you need to get aggressive. That ne next paycheck needs to go mostly towards these debts so you can stop playing the shell game and whack-a-ole. That's the only way out is you got to be more aggressive than they are. And then, you know, never touch this hot stove again.

Delete these apps. Never walk into one of those stores. You drive by and say, "That's a past version of James. Never again." >> And you're probably going to need to pick up a couple of side hustles. You're going to have to work extra to get this done quickly.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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So, it replaces a large part of your income, so the bills still get paid while you get back on your feet. >> Now, if your employer gives you free disability insurance, great, take it. If it's uh discounted there at a better price, take it. But if not, Xander can help you find the right plan.

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>> All right, back to the phone lines we go where we have Jeb who's in Columbia, South Carolina. Hey Jeb, you're on the line. How can George and I help out?

Um, my question is I'm 24 years old and I am fixing to get married in November

and I make 35,000 a year and I was

wondering how can I like make a good budget and how can I be um and I only

debt I have is to my house payment and what's a good way to stay on top of that where I ain't living paycheck to paycheck. >> Yeah, absolutely. I love that you're thinking ahead. I love that you have no consumer debt. What about the lady in waiting? is how how do her finances look? >> She don't have no debt either.

>> Okay, great. And does she work?

>> She does. She's she works.

>> What What does she make?

>> Uh right now she works. She probably makes in a month. She right now at her job, but she's going to be switching jobs. Right now at the job she's at right now, she probably makes $800 a month. >> Okay. And what does she do and what will she be doing? You said she's switching jobs. She when she switched jobs, she's going to be working at a coffee shop.

>> Okay. I mean, she's making like less than minimum wage right now if she's working full-time. So, that part scares me. >> Oh, no. No, she ain't working. She's part-time working right now. Oh, >> okay. Got it. >> And once she's working full-time, what will she be doing?

>> She'll be working at a coffee shop. And they told her with her experience is that that she'll be probably making around 16 to $20 an hour at the coffee shop. >> Okay, great. That's closer to 40 grand a year. Wonderful. And what are you doing for work?

>> I am I am a part-time uh little carrier

for the post office. I got two more years before I can go full-time.

>> Two more years. Okay. And then then you'll be making what? 70.

>> Right around 70. And then as the years keep going, making a little bit more and more and more as the the time goes on.

>> Okay. That's good. I love that. All right. So, the key here is to stay out

of debt and to continue to build wealth in the process. So, you're probably familiar that we teach a plan that's called the baby steps. And there's seven of them. And the idea is to get your throughout the seven baby steps to get your money working for you to build wealth so that you can live like no one else and and be generous and all of these things. Correct. So, you guys are partially there because you don't have any consumer debt. The question is, do you have any money saved

>> right now? I'm trying. So, I wasn't being in debt. Like my I'll tell you the story quick. The house was um given to

me. It was my grandma when she passed away. She gave it to me. And then my parents said, "You know what? Y'all starting out new, but y'all won't be in debt. We'll go in there and we'll remodel the house for y'all. Y'all just pay us back for they not we don't have to pay the whole loan back to them. We only got to pay for 10 years. A,000 a month. $1,000 a month for 10 years. And

is there any way that you can pay that

off early? Are they open to you basically doing the calculation on that and saying we want to get out of this early?

>> I mean, I can if I you know what I mean?

Like if we can afford it, I would love to pay pay it off quicker as I can.

>> Okay. And that would be my goal. Do you guys love the house? Do you plan on staying there for a while? >> Oh, yeah. >> And you're saying there's no mortgage.

It's paid off, but you basically have $120,000 loan attached to it to family

>> to Yes. Well, yeah. Yeah. To the family thing. Yes. >> Okay. At a,000 bucks a month. So, the goal would be instead of waiting 10 years for that to get paid off through the minimum payment of a,000 bucks, can we throw 2,000 at it? 3,000 at it and get this thing done even faster?

>> Yes. >> Because Thanksgiving is going to be awkward. I'll tell you that much. Cuz they're going to see you guys on the honeymoon going on vacation. And if you go, "Hey, money's tight this month.

Can't pay the thousand." Or, "Man, it's been nine years. We need the money now." Because they might have a health problem or want to retire. And go, "Man, we're kind of regretting making this 10-year loan drag out." And >> and just to be clear, they are willing to hand over the deed once you've paid it. It's not just uh >> we're talking here like they're actually going to give you the deed.

>> No, no. This what they said. This is the deal.

>> Okay. Is any of this in writing?

>> Yes. >> The question I have though, okay, so when the house is in your name, what's the actual mortgage payment, not what they're charging you, what's the actual payment?

>> I still would be paying the,000.

>> I understand. You're saying it's paid off >> until I get it paid off. But they would have the house in my name. It would be just like the house will be in my name and I'll just keep paying them the thousand. >> Right. But the clarity that I want is is there an actual mortgage on the house or are they just charging you that money?

>> No, no, no. There's no mortgage date. My daddy just retired and he took the money out of his retirement to redo the house.

>> That's kind of scary. How much does he have in retirement? >> Yep.

over 300,000.

>> Okay. >> That's a pretty big chunk to take out for the these renovations.

>> No, no, no. I take like over He has over a million in retirement. >> Oh, okay. >> So, he's fine. Okay. So, so back to you and your fiance. I I love this for you.

I think it's very generous that they're doing that. Uh and so, like I said, the

goal is to continue to live that debtree lifestyle. I want to make sure you have savings today. Do you and your fiance uh

when you guys get no married in November, if you combine your savings together, how much money will that be?

>> I Let's see if I combined it cuz I'll

tell you this. I got I got a savings account out of out of mind. I just opened up this past month. $250 is going into a pay period.

>> Perfect. Okay, great. So, the goal for you guys is to save up six months of expenses. So, in your budget, which we're going to gift you every dollar for your wedding present, I want you to look at your month and say, "What does it cost to make our month go? Does it take $3,000?" Okay, let's multiply that by six. We need $18,000 to make this thing go. Lock that in. Put it in a high yield savings account somewhere that it's liquid, but that it's not with your normal month-to-month checking account.

And that's going to be your 3 to 6 months. That's baby step three. And then once that's done, you guys can start investing. Baby step four, you can put 15% of the amount that you make before

taxes. I want 15% of that to go to retirement. And if you have a 401k through the post office, you want it to go into your your employee sponsored account. So your 401k, if you don't have that, you can put it into a a Roth IRA and do that.

And I want your wife uh to do the same thing. And even now, as she's your fiance, I want her to start doing that uh if she's to that point already. So now you're investing, now you're starting the process of building the wealth. And then from there on, you can continue the baby steps.

Baby step five, obviously you're putting away for kids college. And then baby step six, which you guys are going to be at real fast.

I tell you this, I did I talked to one of y'all smart flow people and I am I just I'm in the process of open up a Roth IRA and a brokerage account.

>> Good for you. >> Good for you. >> Smart investor pro. That's fantastic that you connected with one.

And I wouldn't here's the thing. I wouldn't put money into that until you have that emergency fund. >> That's right. And that might not be until the wedding cuz what happens is you go invest all this money and now you don't have any and the HVAC goes out in this house and you're on the hook and now you're trying to go 10 grand into debt to cover the new HVAC.

It is your never go into debt again insurance plan.

>> So you guys >> that's why I um open up I opened up the savings account was just to so out of out of mind. I'm not going to touch that money unless I need it like an emergency. >> Yeah. break in case of emergency.

And that means it's unexpected and it's necessary. >> That's right. And you guys should aim for, if I were you, somewhere between 15 18,000 is probably a really good number for you. Uh, again, I wouldn't combine finances until you guys are married in November.

But you should be having these conversations and you should be talking about it. You should have full transparency into what she's doing financially and and vice versa until you do get married. And then everything is combined together. one checking account, uh, one high yield savings account.

You can add her as the beneficiary on your 401k.

And that way, everything is all together. And listen, I'm pulling for you guys. This is this is exciting. I think that you're in a really, really good position. You've got a, you know, an uptick on your careers. You're in a good place with the home.

Congratulations. >> Yeah. If you can learn to live off of your 35 grand, when you make 70 and you keep living like this, oh yeah, >> you're going to be stacking some cash and building some serious wealth.

Multi-millionaires is what you'll be. I just crunched the numbers for you. Even at 67,000 household income, if you invest 15% of that from 24 to 64, you're looking at over 5 million bucks.

>> Wow. >> So, it's simple. And that's if you guys never get a raise, you don't both grow in your careers, which is highly unlikely. >> That's right.

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Erica is in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

Erica, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks for taking my call. Um, so I am a single female living in Philadelphia. Um, I'm a pharmacist. Um,

and I graduated with a ton of student loan debt. So, at this point, I am

wondering how I can get this amount down

or if I should invest instead to offset

the uh the compound interest on it. So, I guess my question is, do I pay down the student loan debt or do I put more in investment? Okay. How much debt are we talking about? Not that it changes my answer. I just want to know.

>> Yeah. Student loan debt is right around 192,000. >> 192. And what's your income now that you're a pharmacist?

>> Um, currently um uh post taxes I make

57.82 per month.

>> Okay. Do you happen to know what the interest rate is on those student loans?

Uh ballpark if it's not the same for all of them? Yeah, it's 3.1%.

>> Okay. Okay. So, to your question,

offsetting the compound interest, the best way to offset the interest is to pay more than the minimum payment to throw as much as you can at it to knock down that principal because 3% of 100,000 is a whole lot less than 192,000. So, the faster you knock these debts out, the less interest you're going to pay. And that's a guaranteed rate of return that 3 point, you know, 2%. Versus investing it with market

volatility. You could lose money one month, make a little one month, but you're much better off knocking out all these debts because your life is on hold until you repay these lenders. It's going to be really hard to do all the things you want to do in life. Get married, get a house, have kids, whatever it is, go on vacations when you have all these payments stacked up every month. What what are the minimum payments currently due for that 192 grand?

>> Um, currently it's sitting at,300 per

month. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I mean, that's a high payment. I I I tend to agree with George on this. uh for similar reasons, but also I would just add on, you know, I think that

there's you're not the only one who feels that way, who thinks, hey, I could just pay the minimums and anything extra I can invest that money and I'll feel great because I'll have $300,000 sitting in investments or I'll have half a million dollar. But you also have to consider that if you did that for a five or 10 year span, that student loan is still acrewing. And even if you did invest and even if you did have $300,000 sitting there, that's your money.

know, 270,000, 275,000.

And you have to ask yourself, oh my gosh, that's not going to feel like the freedom that I thought it would feel like. And I I I've painted this picture before, but I it helped me and my husband when we had 90,000 left and the payment wasn't very high and we thought, you know what, we don't need to pay this off. We can just we can live with this.

But it feels like it's like what I liken it to is being inside of a beautiful home. The home is beautiful. It's everything you wanted. As long as you're in there, everything is great. But the minute you open the door, you realize you are right at the edge of a cliff.

And it's like a California cliff at the ed, you know, if the house falls off, you are just tumbling into the abyss.

And that's the way it feels on the inside is I still have this debt attached to me. And you know what I'm talking about. I mean, you feel it every time when you lay in the bed at night.

So that's kind of, >> you know, a more emotional take on it.

And I think it's worth it because, you know, our our body does keep the score in these in these situations.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I I think maybe the only issue that I find because I do have

my own budget is what's left over after all of my expenses. So that and what makes it even tougher is being single and not living with somebody being the the only person um contributing to rent

and in big city and I I I did at one

point make very large payments and it

helped a lot >> and then you know switching to different jobs moving to a different city um being

single again cuz I used to be married >> it just makes it a lot harder. Yeah.

>> So, this this is the tough part is that like we're trying to look for that extra

income to be able to put there because all I'm doing right now is surviving.

>> Well, what does the trajectory for you look like as a pharmacist? Cuz if you're bringing home, you know, what is it 69 grand a year? That's probably around 100 grand gross in a high cost of living area. So, how do we get you to be making

150 as a pharmacist? Because that would really speed this up.

>> Absolutely. So, right now, um that's kind of what I'm looking towards. It's the market within pharmacy is a little tough and um but I do have um some

future plans on finding a job that probably the market in Philadelphia is right around I would probably say about

140. Um that really so that would be as

a pharmacist like a good salary that you

can make. Now I I'm looking for other options too that can help me make more because right now what I'm making is not just is not enough.

>> So I guess maybe that's the answer.

>> Well, at this rate what it's you're just feeling hopeless because making these minimum payments it's going to take you a lifetime to pay the student loans off.

And until you can throw, you know, three grand a month at the debts, four grand a month, it's not going to feel like there's any, you know, hope in sight or light at the end of this tunnel. But I'm doing the math here going, "All right, if you can throw 3,200 of these debts every month, you're done in five years." And that's if you don't get a raise.

Now, that's tough. Obviously, you're in a high-cost living city. What is your rent every month?

>> Um, currently it's right around 15 or,600 a month.

>> Okay. Could you get a twobedroom and

rent with a friend, get a roommate?

So next year I'm planning on um renting

from my friend who owns a home in Philly and and it will be with a roommate. So

I'm this that 15600 is is one bedroom,

one bath.

>> So what would your rent go down to?

>> Um I'm not sure. She would probably work with me. I would say she would probably help me get to like maybe 1,400.

>> Oh, that's not much savings.

I was hoping you were going to say like a thousand bucks or something like all right we saved 500 bucks a month this is worth it >> well when you pass it along through utilities and maybe food I don't know how much you would share there might be something there if you guys you know >> but if you could get a twobedroom for two grand a month well now you're splitting at a thousand bucks I'm trying to go through so there's two ways to get more margin to get rid of this debt faster and that's to you make more or spend less and so those are the two areas the two levers I want you to start looking at is do a detailed budget using every dollar and I'll gift that to you to help you get through this and go look at all of your expenses cuz right now you feel like you need to live like a pharmacist.

You want people to know, look at me, I I'm doing pretty good. And the problem is that's going to cause lifestyle creep. You're going to eat out more, go out more, have nicer things, dress nicer, and right now we need to live like a broke college student because we got a mess to clean up. >> Absolutely.

>> The good news is >> Oh, I don't have any problem with eating ramen. So, we're good. >> Good. The good news is, you know, your rent right now is really right at the the 25% mark.

your minimum payments, you're at 28 uh $100 a month. Where's the rest of that money going? What's your next biggest expense that you go, you know, here's the problem, guys? It's my car payment.

Is there anything else that we could try to help you find that margin? Do you have a a car payment to speak of?

>> I do have a car payment. It's not much.

And it's um there I I owe 1,898

less on it and about 385 per month.

>> Okay. Well, that's some margin freed up.

Is there anything else? Because I still feel like there's a big chunk of money that's not accounted for by all the major players. You didn't mention kids or daycare or anything like that.

>> Uh let me see. I have a budget. Um there

is I mean not really. Those are really

it just goes to essentially rent, car,

>> um I have a lot of I put a lot of money

away and in uh retirement.

>> Okay, there's where it is. I knew it was somewhere. So again, I love this conversation because you're you're wanting to do the right things, you're just doing them in the wrong order. So I love a person who wants to build wealth.

I love a person you're very responsible because that's a responsible choice. But George and I would caution you that there's a better order to do this in because if you're investing but you're still in debt, you know, obviously it's it's taking away your peace. We talked about that. And obviously you probably don't have much liquid savings and so therefore your retirement is at risk.

The next time you're in a jam, you might liquidate that, which is terrible. So George and I would say you need to pause investments. It's only temporary. It's not a scary thing, but you need the full force of your income to do what George said, which is be putting hopefully around $3,000 a month on these student loans to get them paid off. Please, please, please cancel and and and pause those retirement contributions.

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All right, George, let's hear from Tabitha, who's right here in our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Hi, Tabitha. What's up?

Hey, so I recently paid off my student loans and I'm finally on the straight and narrow, right? Awesome. Um I called the credit union and I opened up a high yield well it's a checking but it has a higher yield than the high yield savings. So anyhow, um, and I asked them

like, you know, cuz I want a plan to be able to put money down and I was thinking about the manual underwriting because other than that, I have one credit card, but I don't use it. So, I'm fixing to have it just cut off basically. >> Um, and they they acted like that was crazy. >> So, I guess I got the weird thing um for the first time, but I'm wondering like am I asking like is there questions I'm supposed to ask?

Is there a different way to go about it? because they were like, "No, you need credit. Like, you don't need to turn that off. Like, even if you don't use it, your credit score will still be there and we'll be able to use it and it should if everything's paid off and it should go up." And I'm like, "Um, I don't know that." >> Well, just to for the person listening, manual underwriting is the way that you get approved for a mortgage if you don't have a credit score.

>> Not if you have a low score.

So that's the key Tabitha is once you're completely debtree all the accounts are closed it may take 6 to 12 months for your credit score to become indeterminable and at that point then you can do manual underwriting. So I don't know when you're going to be ready to actually go home shopping. Are we talking 3 years from now?

>> Um probably like a little over a year um based on the amount that I'm going to have to save to get to the 25% mark.

>> Okay, cool. So you do you have an emergency fund yet? I know you said your student loans, your loans are paid off.

>> No, I'm finishing that up hopefully within the next 6 months and then after that I'll start on the >> on the down payment savings fund. Okay, cool. So, here's the deal. A lot of people don't know what manual underwriting is because they were so ingrained in the broken financial system

we find ourselves in. But the truth is, credit scores have not been around that long. We're talking like since the 90s.

And before that, what lenders did was look at things like your income. So, they'd verify your income, look at your rental payment history, they'd look at, you know, 12-month history of your bank statements, they would look at trade lines like utility bills or cell phone bills to determine whether or not they will grant this loan to you. So, that's exactly what manual underwriting does, and you just looked in the wrong place.

So, I would reach out to Church Hill Mortgage. You can go to churchillmortgage.com and um talk to them about it. They're the the number one in the nation because we send all the Ramsay fans to them. So, they won't look at you like you're crazy.

They'll go, "Oh, absolutely. We can help with that." And they'll answer all of your questions and steer you in the right direction when it comes to what you need to do to get prepared for that. Cuz there are some steps. There's a few hoops to jump through, but I've done it.

It's not It's not as difficult as people make it out to be. >> No, it's not bad. So, for a few more specifics, if you're thinking about that, uh you need to be able to show 12 months of documented rental history. So, if you're listening out there and you're living with mom and dad and not paying rent, thinking you're going to buy a house and do manual underwriting, you need to pay rent.

You need to have some sort of documented rental payment history. You need to have 12 months of other trade lines. These are things like George mentioned, cell phones, utilities. You could even use insurance payments for that.

Also, uh actual money. Okay? So, they're going to want to see that you have uh income for the last 12 months. If you're self-employed, they might look back two years.

That's important. And then, obviously, you want a nice down payment.

Um, and that's really all there is to it. It's really not that big of a deal.

Um, the only other part of this is just making sure you're in the right position. And Tabitha, it sounds like you're on the right track. Finishing up that debt, saving up the 3 to 6 months, and then getting on uh to that down payment. Very, very good call. Thank you for the call. All right, let's keep it rolling. George, we got Madison in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hey, Madison.

>> Hi. Thank you for taking my call. Yes, ma'am. What's going on?

>> Um, so my husband and I just got married in January, and we started out at around

close to $100,000 in debt. We're now at around 38,000, >> but we are expecting a baby in November.

So, my question, I know you guys say usually to pause if you're expecting, um, but how much do you think is a good amount to have to be prepared?

>> I love that question. So, yeah, you're exactly right. We call that uh stork mode, which is kind of funny, but it's just the idea of the most important thing in your world right now is being prepared for this baby, not paying off debt. Uh and so yeah, pausing is good.

I'm thinking about two things. Number one, I'm going to save as much as I possibly can, whatever money I can, cuz the truth is if it weren't STO mode, you'd still be doing that. The money would just be going towards debt. So yeah, let's keep up that same intensity because the fact of the matter is when the baby comes and you guys get home and everybody's healthy, you're going to take that money and you're going to throw it towards the debt.

So the more the marrier. Uh but I would have a couple of thoughts in mind to go along with that. Number one, George, I'm always looking at the out-of pocket max on my insurance. I want to know which part you're on the hook for.

>> Yep. I want to know that if things go south and, you know, we end up having more, >> what is it? Is is it 10,000? Is it 12250?

Like whatever it is, I want that money, that amount saved.

And so once you and baby are home safe, you might have 30 grand ready to throw at the debt while you've been making these minimum payments. So, how much could you save by the time baby's here?

>> That's a good question. I feel like we kind of got uh like a good head start because we were able to get rid of a car and then we had wedding money. But I

would say we could probably save close to 10 maybe 15,000 before the baby gets here. >> Okay. So if you made minimum payments on the debts and then through the rested savings 15k by November is what you're thinking. >> Sure. The only other thing is that I know we should not have done this but we borrowed some money from a family member. So, we we do want to pay that for sure before the baby gets here, but I think we could get through that pretty quickly. >> How much is it? >> So, $5,500.

>> That's a significant chunk of of 10 to 15,000.

>> Yeah. I mean, I wasn't We should be able to have that this month or next month.

Um >> Oh, so that's aside from this.

>> Still get I think that we could still get to at least 10,000 before the baby gets here. >> Okay. What's your household income?

Uh 105.

>> All right. And are you planning on going back to work after or are you going to stay home? >> I I do plan to go back. Yeah.

>> Okay, cool. And what what's left in 38K?

What kind of debts are those?

>> Um I have 13,000 on my car, 9,000 in

student loans, the on the the uh 5,500

to my dad, and the rest is credit cards.

>> Okay. Now, the the bigger question is, are you guys done with debt? Are you changing the behavior that got you here?

Like, have you cut up the credit cards?

>> Yeah, we're we're absolutely done.

>> Good. Love to hear that. Well, you're on your way. I'd be focused on just making sure you you and baby are healthy and the debt will get paid. And I hope it's done. I mean, it'd be pretty cool if you guys went real crazy and got it done early next year >> before that baby's first birthday.

>> For sure. >> That's the plan. As soon as possible.

We've been doing pet sitting and as like staying at different houses, which we don't want to do that anymore because it's hard to be newly wed and away from each other, but um trying to do whatever we can to to get through it.

>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the mentality that you have to have when you're attacking debt. George, it's you're going to feel a level of discomfort. And if you're trying to do the things that we teach and trying to keep it, you know, life is the same.

Nothing really changes. I don't really feel it. You're not going you're not doing it right. >> Yeah. You need to go hard enough that you never want to go back into debt because you sacrifice so deep. Yes.

>> And for me it was like lean cuisines.

That was my debtree journey food. And I would wait for them. >> I'd go to Kroger, I'd wait for them to be on sale five for $10.

>> I remember that sale. >> $2. I was like, "All right, if I can eat for $2 a meal." I mean, I looked, if you open my fridge, there was nothing in it.

You open my freezer, just a stack of lean cuisines, 20 high.

>> All I think about is the microplastics in today's world. They're going to study my body for science one day.

>> Your brain is like really made of plastic. >> What happened to him? And so now I can't even pass by the Lean Cuisines in the grocery store. >> Oh, he's like >> like it just brings me back. I I feel a little vile. No, thank you. Not doing that again. But that's caused me to not go into debt. >> I know. That's right. Whatever you have to do >> cuz I'm not going back to that Lean Cuisine lifestyle.

>> Who cares? Who cares if you were in the best shape ever? >> I'll keep my Lean physique in other ways. What a great name though. Lean Cuisine. >> You got to admit. >> Yeah. Got to have >> Did you have a debtree food? Now you're a foodie and you you eat super clean.

You wouldn't darken the door of a Lean Cuisine. >> I wouldn't darken the door of a Lean Cuisine. I I think for me the biggest thing is I don't don't ask me about a coupon. Don't ask me to do something to get money off.

Right. Like I did enough couponing that I don't want anymore. I a lot PTSD. >> Yeah.

Even you'll say you'll say, "Oh, you should do that app.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade. This is George next to me taking your calls. And we've got Jacob who's on the line in Richmond, Virginia. Jacob, what's going on in your world?

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Um, I was calling about I've been considering going to college um and to

kind of get a job that I'm more wired for. Um, I've taken the Ken like assessment test and the hard decision

about it is just that I'm in a career now that pays pretty solid considering I don't have a degree, but it's just not the most fulfilling.

>> What kind of work is it that you're doing now and what are you earning?

>> Yeah. Um, it's a lot of just kind of desk work at a computer desk for um like

a labor company. Um, I make about 55.

>> Okay. And what is it that you want to do and what would be a a fair salary that you think you'd make doing that?

>> Yeah. Um I I've kind of more in line to

like want to kind of counsel people or speak with them and like kind of leave an impact. Um from my research what I

can expect if I get like a degree with it would be about 60 to 65 is the average for where I'm at. >> Okay. I'm confused. Are you talking about being like a therapist?

Um, so with the assessment test I did, some of the options, one I saw that I liked was like a school counselor was an option. >> And have you looked into what it actually takes to become a school counselor?

>> Yeah. Um, so on that assessment, it shows that a master degree would be needed along with some licensing, which

the the part that's hard for me is like I I'm don't mind doing that, but I feel like it's kind of maybe unwise to maybe do this to uh like change while I'm in the process of baby step number two.

>> Oh, okay. So, >> yeah, >> baby step two, for those listening, that's the step where you're paying off your consumer debt. How much consumer debt do you have? At this current moment, I have about 11,000. I started at 20 like last year.

>> Okay. So, you've been making headway on that. And is it just you, Jacob, or do you have a family, wife?

>> I actually just got married in March. I came down and visited y'all went on my honeymoon. >> Wow. We probably told you to go have fun

and get out of here.

>> George George made a joke about it.

Yeah. >> That it's sad that this You're like, "Oh, what are you doing for your honeymoon?" They're like, "We're here." I'm like, "Okay, what else?" Yeah. No, that's great. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> So, is your now wife working outside the home?

>> Um, yeah. She she's a nurse. Well, she's a nurse tech at uh hospital.

>> Okay. And what does she make?

>> Um, I think right now she's like about 30 a year. She's like hourly like 18 to 19. >> Nurse tech. Okay. Okay.

>> And that should be closer to like 40 grand gross per year, which puts you guys close to a six figure salary. Does she have any debt?

>> Um, no. No. All of her schools been paid for so far, but we might have to pay for it in the future. >> Have you guys combined finances?

>> Yes, completely. >> Okay. Cuz I'm wondering how can we here here's my goal for you. How do we do this thing? Cuz I want you to pursue this dream of being a school counselor, but we want to do it smart and we want to do it debtree.

>> And so, exactly. What I would recommend is knocking out this debt really fast.

And the why behind it is I got this dream on the other side that I want to get to. And that's going to put some fire under this to go, you know what, we make a hundred grand. We're bringing home, you know, seven grand a month, whatever it is. Can we throw three grand a month of this debt be done in 3 months or four grand a month and go hard at this thing?

Cuz now, three months from now, now we can work on the emergency fund. Do you guys have savings right now?

outside of that, we're just in intense with paying off debt. >> Okay, good. So, I would set an aggressive goal to pay off the debt, an aggressive goal to get through your baby step three, your full emergency fund of 3 to 6 months of expenses. And at that point, now you can begin investing and cash flowing this school dream. And so, that's where you need to get clear on what is the most affordable school I can go to to get the the degree required.

>> Yeah. not the fanciest school, just what is the most affordable school to check the box and say, "Yep, I have this degree." Because you need to go undergrad into grad

>> potentially for that. I'm not necessarily saying that's the exact career it has to be. I just know for a fact I'd probably be more fulfilled. Um,

but yeah, it's just been difficult cuz I'm not sure if it is unwise or kind of selfish to do a step like that.

>> Well, you do have to consider the return on investment. You have to consider a couple things. Number one, we're not going into debt for it. So, just for the master's side of it, I mean, a lot of people would borrow anywhere between 60 to 120,000 to be able to do what it is that you want to do, but then you're coming away with a degree making 55 to 75, right?

Um, so you have to think through that. The time frame, I think, gives you some time that you could cash flow it. I mean, people do these programs in 2 to 3 years. So, I think that that gives you some time that if you started with a chunk of money, right, as to to start out with, it's like, okay, I I work a semester and during that semester, I'm saving up for the next semester.

I think you could cash flow it in that way. And that's the only way that I would suggest it.

>> yeah, I would just do some really deep dives into how uh I hate the word cheap, but how inexpensive you can get this degree. Is it an online option? Are there things that you can do to mitigate that cost at all?

>> Yeah, that makes sense. >> And you'll have to think through, can you do this, go to school full-time while your wife carries the load of income for the family? So, that's another piece of the puzzle to figure out, well, you need to work part-time and this just takes longer and you're doing school at night, for example. So, that would be a conversation I would start to have with your wife about what this actually looks like in reality versus I just have this dream and I hate this job, so I'm just going to leave.

and at all costs I'm going to go do it.

You want to be smart about it and move slowly with peace so that you don't have a pile of debt on the other side.

>> And does does your wife does she plan on moving up to being a a registered nurse

or is she going to keep teching? Like what's she going to do?

>> Yeah, I think she wants to continue moving up in that kind of uh career tree. Um she has about two more years before she can be considered like an official nurse. >> Okay. >> And we can probably expect about another 10K for her schooling.

And now that we're married, she probably won't get as much financial aid. >> Okay. >> Right. Okay.

So, if her career trajectory has a higher ceiling right now, I might have her pursue school first. Like, hey, you go first, you go make, you know, 80 grand a year as a nurse so that we have the freedom, flexibility for me to go pursue this over here. So, there there is kind of a give and take here.

>> Mhm. Yeah, definitely.

>> So, it might take longer than you want it to, but I believe this is it's not a selfish thing to go do work that you're wired to do that does give you fulfillment.

>> Okay, I appreciate that.

>> Yeah, thanks for the call. You know, a lot of times, George, we we take these calls and we're talking about dollars and cents and income and all these things, but the truth is this is the job that you're going to be going into day in day out, spending the majority of your life there, 8 10 hours a day.

You're commuting there. You're giving up time from your your children and your family there. It matters. Like, you have to feel good about the work that you're doing.

You have to feel like you're making a difference. It has to feel worth it to you. So conversations like this, I I love them because I'm all about getting people to that like I everybody wants to feel good about the work that they're doing and the time that they're spending doing it. >> Well, Anna, I always recommend go meet with some school counselors.

>> True. That >> do they enjoy it? What are the pitfalls?

What are the things that they love about the job? >> What are things to look out for as you pursue this career field or what school you work at? All of that matters. And you don't want to show up and go, "Wow, this is not what I thought it would be." >> Uhhuh. I sunk all this money.

>> You now you're Ross from friends. >> Pivot. Pivot.

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All right, back to the phone lines.

Simon is in San Diego, California.

What's up, Simon?

>> Hey, how's it going? >> Good. How can we help?

>> Um, first of all, really awesome to be talking to Jay and George, longtime listener of the show. Uh, second of all,

I am uh debating on getting a heliloc

to pay for one, clear up some MX debt that my wife and I have, two, buy a new

vehicle. >> Wait, is this a prank call, dude?

>> No. You said longtime listener and then you mentioned three things that we are vehemently against.

>> Or did you just wait till Dave wasn't here? >> I I totally get that. I was going to be like I kind of sound a little bit silly.

Longtime listener, I know you guys don't like going into debt. >> So the goal of all this is to buy a new car.

>> Um well MX is a big one as well. Um but

yeah, we need a new vehicle. Um, our last one, the one that we currently have is on the Fritz and um, yeah, that's a primary concern

right now with me and my wife is getting a new car. >> Okay, so let's kind of pan back here because if you're doing all of this rigomearroll to get a new car, this is a symptom of a much greater issue, which is you guys are out of control, right?

There's there's something going on with debt. there's something going on with income that's causing you to spend on the credit card, not be able to pay the balance. And then instead of looking to something like savings or liquid cash, you're now looking to a line of credit that's attached to your home, which is what a heliloc is. And you're now thinking about draining the equity in one of your greatest assets to now fund what I think you said is I don't know if it's a brand new car, but a new car.

So, I'm a little nervous about that. Very nervous about that. Um, tell us when you say your current car is on the fritz, what does that mean? Does that mean, hey, we just have to make some repairs and we just don't want to pay the $700, or is it, you know, the engine exploded and it needs a new drive shaft?

Like, what's going on? I'll never use that terminology again, by the way. That's that's the best I've got. >> That was impressive.

one of those scenarios where we either

keep it for maybe a year, but it is a

2018 uh and it's uh gotten it's gotten so many problems to where the next time we get any sort of we have to pay more money for this car, it's we're just going to sell it at that point. Um >> Okay. So, you said you could make this work for another year. So, the question now is, can we clean up the financial mess in a year and save up for this car in cash and get a new to you car?

>> Well, yeah, I have cash. That's the thing. Um, >> how much cash do you have?

>> About 15 grand right now in a savings.

>> Good. >> But we have a lot of money actually in an inherited IRA. Um, but we want to use

that money to for a use that money technically as our income.

>> So, we use the stipens of that to add to our current income.

>> What's your current income without the IRA?

>> Without the IRA, the IRA right now is giving us an additional 30K a year.

>> So, then what do you guys make outside?

>> That would be about 135.

>> Okay. 135K is your household income. And what's left on the MX? What's the balance? uh about 14K.

>> So why don't you use your savings and pay off the MX today?

>> Well, because we then we don't have any savings. Well, we technically do, but then we don't have any like liquid cash. Like I don't like taking money out of that IRA. I want to use that use those monthly stipens for, you know, as long as I possibly can. >> Well, you like putting your house at risk with a heliloc to pay off the MX to buy a brand new car that's going to go down in value.

I get that it's going to go down in value, but I don't think the home is technically at risk because if I make a plan to pay this heel off quickly >> and don't a nickel for every time someone had a plan on this show, I wouldn't be in the job. So, >> here's the deal, dude. You know what to do. Use your cash savings to pay off the debt. Cut up the freaking MX. Never use it again. Never take out a heliloc. And then you save up for a car you can afford in cash.

That's it. and make the repairs needed until you have the cash to buy the car you want and make sure that car and everything other cars don't add up to more than half your annual income. So for you guys that's you know 65k in cars. >> Yeah, that's plenty of car.

>> Plenty of car. And I think the rule of thumb there's a lesson to be learned here and I think it's worth highlighting. So you cannot solve a problem while simultaneously creating the problem. And in simplest terms that is if debt is your problem, you cannot

solve the problem of debt while going into more debt. You cannot use debt to solve for debt. The only way you solve for debt is to pay it off. And the the

problem with it is uh a lot of times people use language like I'm going to use a heliloc to pay off my credit card debt. Like you're not paying it off.

You're simply moving it. It is not a solution. It's just I'm moving it from here to over here. And the saddest thing about it, George, is they're thinking that that's a better position for the debt. >> They're like, "Well, I'd rather I I need to pay off the mafia, so I'll go borrow from the cartel. I'd rather owe the cartel money than the mafia." You're like, "Dude, this is a terrible life you've created for yourself." >> Yeah. And and it's it's not even I I

don't even want to create any shame around it because I think what's speaking here is desperation. It's I see a situation, it's not good, and I'm looking for a quick fix. Can I can I fix it quickly because you know, you know, you're not safe. Like, you know, it's not a good thing.

So, the quickest possible thing I can do, I can go over here and get a heliloc. They're going to loan me up to 80 to 90% of my home equity. I can do that. And it's like, hold up, pump the brakes.

Let's just think for a second. This guy's got the money sitting there. And in many cases, that is. You've got the money liquid, but there's that false security of I have this cash.

I need this cash. But we're telling you once you pay off the debt and you're free now, suddenly you've got more income, you can save up that cash again. If you saved it up once, you can save it up again. >> Well, and if you're scared to part with the cash, you already did by going 15 grand into debt.

>> That's right. >> Just you did did it without realizing it was someone else's money that you got to pay back later. And later always comes, unfortunately. >> It does.

And that's the part where and and this is I'm not saying this to be snarky. Although, George, you could say it to be snarky. >> I appreciate that. math.

If you're deciding to do math, then you have to decide to do math on both sides. If you're deciding to say, "I care about my 15,000. It took me x amount of months to save it up. It's precious to me." Then you have to do the math on the other side that goes, "Well, you don't really have that because you owe 14 >> on the balance sheet.

It's uh it's not math." >> Yeah. And so that's that's just a little something to remember. It's it's important, guys. Okay.

Brian in Sacramento, California. I'm sorry, Brian. How can we help you today?

>> Hi James. Hi George. Yes, it is. Um, I

want to buy uh sort of my midlife crisis

car. >> How much is the Mazda Miata going to cost you?

>> Close. It's uh 12 grand.

>> Okay. >> What What car is it?

>> I would rather not say cuz it's very rare, but it's as old as I am. And it's a convertible. Oh, >> that's fun. All right. And it's only 12K. Do you have the cash to do it?

>> I do. >> Are you in debt? >> What bothers me? >> No, I have no debt other than my mortgage. Um, but I am 54. I have only

about a hundred grand in uh retirement savings at this point. And um, you know, my mortgage I'd like to pay off by the time I'm in my mid60s. I'm currently on

track to pay it off by 66.

>> Okay. So, you're saying you feel bad blowing 12 grand on a toy when you're behind on retirement? >> I feel Yeah. Yeah. I feel self-indulgent

um and frivolous. Uh it's, you know, it

would be fun to have, but yeah, I just I

you I feel like I need to pay off my mortgage as fast as possible, and I need to build up my um my retirement as

quick. I'm currently putting 15% every year based on a $185,000 salary into my

401k. >> Would you be trading your existing car for this car or would this just be another car to add to the the the garage?

>> This would be this would be another car.

>> Okay. Are you married?

>> Single. >> Okay, man. Well, here's the thing. I don't think this is going to make or break your chances of retiring. But I do think if you buy this car, I would really uh

hit the accelerator to get your retirement in order, get this house paid off faster, get your income up even further. You're you're doing really well right now. You just are in, you know, later on in the game. So, I'm not mad about it. For you to get this 12k car, you got to be ready for the insurance, the maintenance, the repairs as well.

There's going to be ongoing costs, but again, it's not a make or break.

>> I think it's not a make or break. By the time you retire, your house is going to be paid off, and that money is going to a lump sum that's earning the right rate of return is going to double every seven years. So, I think that you can be okay.

>> Just be okay working 4 months longer than you would have. >> There you go.

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Ask your question today at ramseyolutions.com or just click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube. Jennifer is in Charleston, South Carolina.

>> Hi. How are y'all doing today?

>> Doing great. What's up in your world?

>> All right. So, me and my husband got married just over a year ago. And we

were living in an apartment, paying rent. We have no debt at all other than

just rent. >> Okay. >> So, we got into some family issues. Um

my husband's parents were supposed to be taking care of um my husband's grandparents when if one of them passed away. They were pretty much gonna be moving in with them. Um they got into an

argument. They're no longer taking care of gr his grandpa. So we have now been

blessed with the financial burden, I guess, of of his grandfather and trying to to help him financially because he's unable to on just one income. So, we're having a hard time trying to navigate our life moving forward with taking on this big expense. Um, since we're both

27, we haven't started our family or anything like that. Just kind of worried about long term.

>> So, let me get this straight. Your in-laws got mad and decided we're not

helping him anymore. And they then

pushed it over to you guys, the 27 year olds, >> pretty much. So, they don't think that he really looked at all of his options.

Um, he's living on his own right now. He was going to be moving in with them. Um, that now that they don't want him to move in. They think that >> why don't they want him to?

>> It was some argument and some some old bitterness from a some years ago that

now they don't want him to move in now that he's he's needing to.

>> Got it. And so now you guys are up to bat >> and you can also say no. What happens if

you say no? What do you think the repercussion is?

>> Uh probably just uh a hardened

relationship I guess with grandpa. I mean >> with grandpa. Okay.

>> Right. He is alone now and he's sad. He just lost his wife back in December.

>> So he just wants to be around family.

Yeah. And of course, he could probably

find a home to stay in or he probably

would have to get a job again and work to make up. But he's just living in He's 73. He's in great health condition. He

He just is loving the retired life. He doesn't want to have to go back to work.

>> Well, he doesn't get an option if he doesn't have money. >> I mean, true. So, I mean, that's a hard conversation to have with a grown adult and maybe the whole family and go, "Listen, >> we nobody wants to take on the financial burden. We love grandpa. We need to figure out a plan for him. Let's say he lives another 25 years.

>> Are you guys just going to live there and and take care of his bills for 25 years and stunt your own growth?" >> I don't want to. >> No, you insane thing to to be asked of you and you have every right to say, "No, I'm not doing that." >> Right. >> And it doesn't mean you don't love grandpa. It just means you're not going to be a part of this dysfunction and get this slapped on to you to go, "Well, this is your burden to carry forever.

That's what family does." >> Now, if you want to chip in to help grandpa, that's a discussion you can have and what limited contributions you're going to make per month for whatever amount of time. But for you to just fund his life forever because he enjoys being retired is insane.

>> Where is he living now? Does he have a home that he owns?

>> He does. He still has a mortgage on it.

um he could probably sell it but would only make probably a little over a hundred grand back in proceeds. Okay.

>> So, we have just moved in with him. We told him we can of course cover the the home things that >> you moved in with him.

>> Yeah, we already have. >> Oh, no. Jennifer, you just made this you

you made this the plot twist.

>> One of you has to get evicted. This is awkward. our our lease was ending and so

we didn't want to have to sign a six-month or another year if he was really struggling. And he's not he's not struggling yet.

>> Yeah. I thought you said he was healthy enough to go back to be working and stuff, >> right? Without going back to work, he's in like a $2,000 deficit is what he says. >> Per month, >> which really Yes. >> What are his expenses outside of the mortgage?

>> Um frivolous things. He He spends too

much money on groceries and >> so it's not really a deficit. It's a budgeting. >> He's living above his means for sure.

>> So now we're behavior. We're not even just taking care of the elderly. We're just funding his lifestyle and whatever he wants to buy, it's going to be on you to fund the deficit. Yeah. Even more reason to not sign up for this. >> Yeah. I think those are two different things. And it's worth noting the difference. If you're telling me that this guy just needs to reallocate funds and then he's got enough to live on his own, that is completely different than saying my grandfather who is 90 years

old who is suffering from, you know, whatever whatever health things, he cannot work. He has, you know, $1,500 of

social security and that's it. And no, right? Those are different situations.

Uh this is not that.

>> How much does he actually bring in a month? a little over 2,000.

>> And what's his mortgage payment?

>> His mortgage is like 792, I think.

>> Okay. Uh listen, >> escros his in or he escrows his um his

taxes. He pays out of pocket for insurance. >> Okay. What about cars? Does he have a car payment? >> Um no. Both of his cars are paid off.

Just the insurance. He has two vehicles.

He doesn't want to get rid of one cuz it's his dream Mustang that he enjoys driving. So the insurance on that a little high. I know gas is expensive.

>> I think he needs to feel the reality of his situation, which means nobody's going to be funding his misbehavior anymore. If he can't make the payments, if he goes deeply into credit card debt, that's on him. You don't need to try to like fund his life so that he doesn't go into if he goes into debt, that's he's a grown man who can make those decisions.

And that's, you know, Capital One's problem if they give a 73y old $10,000 credit card limit. And Jennifer, I want to turn this conversation to you just a little bit because I'm gonna tell you this is you and me just we're hanging out right now. Okay. Like you and me, we're best buddies. I'll probably pour you a glass of Chardonnay.

>> Love it. >> Okay. And I'm going to slide it over to you and I and ask you, why would you move into grand into grandpa's house? I

wonder, do you also have a thing here where it's like we can save a little bit of money? We'll split the the rent here.

We'll split the mortgage. It works out for us. >> Tell me why you would do that. Cuz I'm looking at this dysfunction going surely Jennifer wouldn't want to participate in that. >> Right. Right. So he has he has offered us a dealish.

So we >> an offer an offer you can't refuse.

>> Right. Right. So we're already paying rent. So that money is already kind of going down the drain, you know, in in say. So, we're paying towards the house,

which is about what we're paying in rent anyway. So, we're not really shelling out more money than we already are.

>> Okay. >> He has stated that this house that he's

in now just isn't going to be a good house long term for all of us.

>> Okay. Oh, he said if we move in and we pretty much agree to take care of him, that when we find the next house, when he sells his house, we'll get whatever pro or whatever money we've put into his house now as we're living there, we'll get back and then he'll pay the down payment of a new house for for us.

>> This guy should become a politician. The amount of lies coming out of his mouth, he should be in Congress right now cuz guess what? He's not going to have any money, >> right? To give you. >> He's pretty much banking on that. He's going to get a good chunk of proceeds from the house sale. >> Well, how is he going to take care of himself though cuz he would need to take those sales and that would cover I don't a nursing home or whatever living facility he'd go to, whatever care.

Heaven forbid he doesn't need a nurse or someone to take care of him. >> This is all the money he has to his name. He can't give it to you, >> right? And I would not save. He's He's

told me in in depth how much money he has. >> I thought you said he only had the hundred,000 in the in the house. What else does he have? Oh, no. I mean, he has savings and stuff like that. I'm just talking about once he sells the house. So, he has like 150,000 in a

savings account and I think he has 40,000 in another savings account, but he's trying to think how how long that's going to last him. >> Well, and that's the biggest problem because he's 73 and healthy. this could go on for another 25 years and you could look up and be like, "We've paid the Datgum house off." >> Yeah. >> And then he's like, "Oh, I don't, you know, I think that >> at a 25 grand deficit, all of his money is gone in like 5 years. So, I'm not

hitching my wagon to anything this guy's doing, and I'm not trusting anybody. >> You don't need it. You don't need it, Jennifer. You guys can go out and make a life for yourself and buy the house that you want in time. Nothing's on fire. We

don't need to make these crazy deals to be successful. >> I would move out tomorrow and say, "Love you, Grandpa. We'll visit at Thanksgiving.

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All right. All right. Laura is in Gray Falls, MT Montana. Okay. Did I get it

right, Laura? Is it Montana?

>> Yes. >> All right. Got to remember those abbreviations for >> elementary school. >> Elementary school. I'm telling you, how can we help out today, Laura?

>> Yeah. Thank you so much for taking my call. So, our question is, should we

pause baby step two to have the lead

paint on the exterior of our house scraped and redone?

That's a health hazard, correct? Major.

>> Yes. So, our children, two of our children have tested with lead exposure

in their blood. It's not like horrible, but >> Yes. I'm saying yes.

>> Yeah. >> How much is it going to cost to get rid of this poison that is on your home?

>> About $10,000.

>> Really? Just to get it out of there?

>> Cuz you got to repaint the whole thing.

Yeah. So, it the the paint is in horrible condition. So, the whole house has to be scraped to remove whatever is chipping and then they have to repaint the whole thing to seal it.

>> Okay. >> And you guys are in debt right now. How much debt do you have?

>> We have 23,000 in student loans and

103,000 on our house.

>> Okay. >> Okay. >> So, just 23 is your consumer debt.

>> Yeah. That's where it gets really hard for us because we had planned that we would be done with that student loan within the next year to year and a half.

>> And um so now we're just like, do we wait the year and scrape and do the

house later or do we address this?

>> I would just make minimum payments on those student loans and stack up as much cash as you can to cash flow this whole thing >> and be done with it.

>> That's not what I was expecting. I mean, to me, this is an emergency.

>> If it were my kids, and and I'm weird about this kind of stuff, too. I Yes, there's certain things in life that trump getting out of debt, uh, for the

moment. Just for the moment. And this is one of them. Like, health is such a big part of of our life. Otherwise, what are we doing it all for? And this, if you don't deal with this, it could cause more bills and and issues down the line.

>> So, absolutely, I would pause the debt snowball and just make minimum payments.

How fast can you guys cash flow the the scraping and repainting?

>> Um, it'll be a few like five, six

months. >> Is there anything you can sell? Can either of you work extra? Get side jobs?

>> Um, >> cuz I wouldn't want to be in this house if I'm telling the truth. I'd be getting out of there until this thing is settled. Yeah, we tried last summer and we just

came up with like that would be a horrible financial decision right now.

>> Yeah. No, I would not sell over a $10,000 repair if if you wanted to look

at it like that.

>> Yeah. >> Do you have family nearby?

>> Um, yeah. Yeah, we do.

>> And then I'm also wondering, >> none of them >> can you break it down? I mean, obviously you want to have the house repainted, but can you do the scraping first? And that's the first thing we do. And then for a while your house looks, you know, ratchet. And then once you've saved up the other half and kind of break it up so it's not it's it's a little bit more bite-sized. Does that make sense?

>> Yeah, that's an interesting thought. We had thought about scraping it ourselves, but then we're concerned that like we're exposing ourselves to the wood also.

>> I'm not saying scrape it yourself. I'm just simply saying how much is it cuz my guess is it's probably I don't know but it might be more expensive to repaint than to just chip off or scrape off the the bad paint. So I'd want separate estimates and just how much is it to get rid of the paint that's on the house?

You might find that that's three or 4,000. >> Have you got some bids on that?

>> We just got the a bid for like the whole thing. >> Mhm. So, I would check and see if you can get different bids and maybe you can find someone to scrape for three and paint for four. Well, now you just save three grand on the project.

>> Gotcha. >> So, I would be doing some homework to get that price down as I stack up cash as fast as possible. I mean, I'd be flipping things on Facebook Marketplace to try to create some cash. Like, this is an emergency.

Imagine your child needed an emergency procedure or medicine and you had to come up with 10 grand to get it. That's the level of urgency I would personally have for my family. Yeah, I agree. I would do the same thing.

And there are certain things, guys, and we can do a better job of of letting you know that cuz we're No one goes harder in the paint on debt than than us. We want you to, you know, move hell and high water to get out of debt.

All of that is so important, but we can't let that stop us from doing the things in the moment that really do require our attention. Obviously, anything regarding health, we're the first ones to tell you if there's an medical emergency, if somebody's having a baby, you need to pause. We're the first ones to tell you if somebody loses a job, if if if somebody goes into the hospital, you need to pause. And there's other things that need to happen while you're paying off debt.

Like, you need to have the right insurance. You need to have life insurance. You need to be paying for a will. Like, there are certain things that it's okay to do while you're doing baby step two, paying off the debt, and you should feel no shame about it.

>> Yeah. You're not a failure because it took you 6 months longer to pay off the student loans. >> No life.

>> Life be lifing as they say. All right.

Andy Detroit, Michigan on the line.

Andy, what's up?

>> Hi. Um, I'm calling on behalf of my son

and daughter-in-law. They bought a money pit house and they thought elbow grease would be enough, but it's not if they live paycheck to paycheck and can't fix things. And now they recently had an emergency flood that made situation worse. >> They have been displaced into a hotel and now there's talks about it possibly being condemned. >> Oh wow. >> Oh gosh. Is insurance paying it? Was the

flood something like where the water pipes burst or was it like it rained a lot and flood and water came in the house? Like what was the nature of the flood?

>> Um the recent thing that happened was a pipe burst and it caused this whole thing to start. But they've had floods from rain in the past that caused prior damage. >> So when So insurance is possibly going to cover some of this, but they're finding a lot that was already wrong with it. So insurance is probably not going to cover a lot of things have been wrong for many years. >> Yeah. >> Um they're finding asus in the ceiling, old wiring that has cloth coverings. Um

and >> did they not get an inspection? They didn't get an inspection when they purchased the house. >> They did. They did. Yes.

And they found none of this. They thought this house is perfect.

>> How long ago? How long have they had the house? >> It's been about a few years, I believe.

>> Like a few years like two or a few few years like eight. >> I think it's been I want to say three years. >> Okay. Three years. So what are you tell us? Tell us why you're calling.

>> I'm calling because I want to advise them. They they come to me for advice and I want to do it right.

I'm wondering if the short sale is what's going to be needed because I don't see if insur if insurance will cover this then everything will be fine.

They can work their way out of this. But if insurance won't cover this and the house is not livable, I'm afraid for them. >> I mean, I'm willing my husband and I are willing to take them into our house and do whatever it takes. >> But I want I just want to have the right advice for them financially, and I don't I I don't want to goof that up.

>> Are they panicking? Uh, and I'm not saying your panic is misplaced, but are they panicking as much as you are, >> or are they like, "We're fine." >> They're panicking more so. And when I talk to them, I I I show a lot different

side, >> right? You're like cool and calm behind the scenes and trying not to show.

>> Yeah. Okay. Do you know the numbers around the house? Do you know what they paid for it?

>> I I I believe it was like around 130,000. And it's just a little, you know, 800 to 900 foot house. But with the market, the way the market was when they bought it, this was all they could get. >> And if they just put it for sale asis,

hoping a flipper will take it. Do you think that what do you what do you think reasonably? I mean, I don't know if you've done any research. Reasonably, what do you think they could get asis?

>> I don't know. I have not done that research, but I know they would lose because they they haven't had a chance to pay off very much of this. >> Yeah. What's left on their mortgage now?

Pardon me. >> What's left on their mortgage?

>> That I don't know. I I I don't know specific numbers here because I try not to get too much in their business. I'm the I'm the mother and mother-in-law, >> so I'm trying to give advice while not being too much in their business. >> Listen, I'm kind of glad that you don't know the numbers. That makes me know that there's boundaries, which is great.

Have they asked for help?

>> Um, they ask for advice. They don't usually ask for financial help, but they ask for advice. >> That's fine. Well, on the advice front, what I would be doing is helping them navigate this insurance landscape cuz that's complicated and it's a headache and you think you got one denial, so you give up.

I would encourage them to appeal it, get a public adjuster, do all the research necessary because this insurance thing is the make or break if they're going to be able to get out of this unscathed or not. And worst case, there might be an ASIS cash buyer situation and they might be on the hook for the difference. And that's a real problem for them.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show here in the Fair Ones Credit Union studio. We're headed back to the phone lines where George and I find Mark in Albany, New

York. Mark, how can we help out today?

>> Hi, how are you?

>> Doing great. What's up?

>> So, I was just wondering, is it ever okay to use or deplete your emergency fund to avoid taking a loan when you're making a big purchase?

Is the big purchase an emergency?

Something that is urgent, something that

uh is completely necessary and something that is like time factor. Yeah. Un unexpected.

>> Um no, it's something that's sort of been expected. It's for a car because my first my current one is getting a little too expensive to maintain. And although

safety isn't yet a concern, it's slowly getting to that point.

>> So, does the car need repairs? What do you mean expensive?

>> So, um I have to repair the not have to,

but the mileage is suffering from a damaged catalytic converter and a couple other things. And it's also just losing value. I know that shouldn't be my primary concern, but I'm just >> Is there a loan on it? Is it?

>> No, there is no loan. It's paid off.

Okay. And what kind of car are you looking to get? How much is that going to cost you?

>> Um, it would be about 30,000.

>> And would you be selling the current car?

>> Yeah, I'd be tracing it in most likely.

>> So, you trade it in and pay cash for this next car?

>> Yes. Yes. If I did not use the emergency fund, then I would be taking out a loan for about half that amount. Uh what's what's the what's the trade-in amount that you think you're going to get for the existing vehicle if you don't put the repairs in?

>> Um I might get three or 4,000.

>> Oh, okay. Um >> not much. All right. How much is in the emergency fund?

>> Uh right now I believe it's uh 11 or

12,000.

>> Okay. So you don't even have the money to even buy this cart. It's not like you have 30 grand sitting in the emergency fund ready to buy that car.

>> Yeah. Where's the other money coming from?

>> Well, I have uh 11 in the emergency fund and I've been saving up in a new car fund. I have about 16 or 17 in the new car fund, >> right? >> So, why can't we just spend 16 or 17 since you have a new car fund that you've saved for? You can get a great car for $17,000.

>> Uh I suppose I could. It's just I found what I really liked and I admit I am a

bit >> Pardon me. >> I was just saying ding ding ding, we have a winner. You you got to the actual the bottom of this which is I saw it and I want it and it looks fancier than the $17,000 version.

>> What kind of car is this?

>> Uh it's used, so it's not a new car.

Don't worry about that. Uh it's a 2023 Q5.

Oh, is that >> I thought we didn't want to get into expensive cars with expensive maintenance and expensive insurance and premium gas >> that is true. Yes, >> but we are.

This is different. Okay. So,

I I mean my my answer here is very cut and dry and we can get into the wise about it, but I think that you did something very intentional which you said I'm going to need a new car soon.

Therefore, it's not really an emergency cuz you you saw it was coming and you started saving money, which I applaud you. That's exactly what you should be doing. And you saved up a pretty penny.

You saved up $17,000.

Nothing stops you today from saying, "I'm going to buy $17,000 car today and I'm going to continue to save towards that car fund so that maybe next year or at the appropriate time I can add another $17,000 to it and then I can come up and get my what is it? I IQ, what is it called? >> The Q5, the Audi." So, I'm curious. Uh,

can you do these repairs now and ride this car for another 6 months to a year while you save up another 13 grand?

>> Um, for another 6 months, I'd probably

be able to save about seven grand.

>> Okay. So, that puts us at about 24.

>> Yeah, just about.

>> All right. I mean, I'm looking at them online right now. I'm looking at some 2023 Q5 sitting at 23 grand. So, I think

it's possible to do some research and and negotiate and find the right one for the price. And maybe it's 8 months, okay? Then we'll have 25 grand. And so, it's up to you the timeline, but the goal is don't use the emergency fund except for emergencies and save up and pay cash for this car.

And don't let them talk you cuz here's what's going to happen. You're going to step onto that lot and they're going to say, "Well, do you want to just see the 2026 model? I mean, we can get you in for whatever payment you want. I mean, we can work with you." >> Oh, sneaky sneaky.

Oh, I I already know the worst thing you can do is say, "I want my monthly payment to be this." Cuz they're going to sneak in all kinds of stuff.

>> Even just they're going to try to get you into a fancier car that gives them a higher commission. Talking extended warranty. >> I mean, I just played this game. They put lowjack on a Tesla, which already confined itself, Jade.

They put Lowjack on there as a little extra >> to try to add a little something. >> You can't take that off. I do feel like though when you go to the car dealership and you've done your research online and you're just like, I'm here to pick up the car.

I feel like there's less of that. You allow for less of that kind of inviting in of the sales guy. It's just I did my

research. Do you have the car ready? Here it is. Great.

Okay. Can you move on the price? Yes. >> Well, then you got to go to the finance office to talk to that guy no matter how you're paying.

And then he talks you. He wants to get you into the warranty and the paint protection package. >> That's true. exhausting.

It's such a silly game. >> I'll be honest. So Sam and I just upgraded vehicles a couple of I guess it's only been a couple of two weeks ago for him. And it really was it was the best experience ever.

I should give the guy a shout out, but yeah, looked online. This is the one we want. We called ahead of time. We said, "Hey, this is the car we're looking at." He goes, "Great.

I'll have it ready uh by the time you pull up." This is the Toyota in Colombia. Uh he goes, "We'll have it ready when we pull up." We pulled up. It was right there. He goes, "You guys just want to drive it?" He handed us the keys.

He was like, "I don't need to go with you. I trust you." Just like that. >> Wow. >> So, we go test drive the car by ourselves, come back.

He's like, "So," he was like, "Are you guys how are you wanting to pay for this?" And I said, "Let's let's decide the price first and then we'll decide." Me being sneaky.

goes, "All right." And he goes, "Well, what are you hoping to pay?" And I said, "Here's what we're hoping." And he goes, "Okay." I said, "If you can do that deal," I said, "We'll walk away, you know, we'll walk away with a car today." He comes back. He goes, "I think I can get there." I said, "All right, we're paying cash." That was that on that.

>> And that's it. >> That that was it. So simple, >> but you got to get to your point, you got to get to the heart of the matter. >> You got to have the walkway power.

You got to know exactly, you got to know more about the car than they do, first of all, because otherwise they'll they can talk around you in circles and and get you in a car that you didn't actually want or you didn't ask enough questions about. >> I think the worst thing is when you're like, I think I want a new car.

>> Dangerous. Well, this and it's why like the CarMax and Carvanas of the world have done so well because nobody wants to have to sit there and negotiate and haggle. They just go, "I see that car for that price. Can I have that?" They go, "Sure." >> Yeah. Normal dealership experience.

>> When I went to the place, that was their whole thing. We get you in and out in less than an hour. >> That's amazing. >> And it was less than an hour. Can I just say >> it's not an interrogation. It's a time share presentation. And you're there for 3 and 1/2 hours to drink some cured coffee >> and you don't even walk out with what you wanted. >> No, >> that's the worst part.

>> All right, George. >> Well, I hope we help, Mark. The the key is it's not an emergency. And thank you for at least admitting it's just a shiny new thing and you want it.

And so now you can look at your piece of crap car and go, "Well, the catalytic converter is out. It's going to be a safety issue." And you got just say it. You want a nice new car, at least new to you. And it's okay.

Just make sure everything all the things with wheels and motors don't add up to more than half your annual income. >> That's right. >> And go. There's some opportunity cost here.

And if you're willing to take on the cost of ownership and maintenance and premium gas, which right now >> that hurts. >> Yes, it does. >> Then go for it.

>> Yeah. You got to know the difference between an emergency, guys. We hit it earlier. It's got to be urgent, necessary, boy, and unexpected.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Carly in South Dakota. We're debtree with our fully funded emergency fund.

So, I'm creating syncing funds for newer cars and house projects. I'm guessing that the syncing funds can't be cash and envelopes. So, do I need to open separate savings accounts or separate checking accounts for each goal? What is the best way to create a syncing fund where I can put my money aside and not touch it for those expenses? These are great questions to be asking. >> Yeah, very good. >> Okay, so let's start with the first question. She's saying, okay, it's not going to be cash and envelopes. Do I need separate savings accounts?

>> You could. >> I think it's helpful. >> Yeah. >> And what's cool is so we have our partner Fairwinds.

We're in the Fairwinds studio. >> Ah, yes. >> And what's really cool is they created this just for our fans. You can have up to 10 different savings accounts that are earmarked for different things.

>> Wow. >> Within the high yield savings. So that's what I would do personally is have a car fund cuz these are big ticket items. If it's little stuff, you don't need it all in separate savings.

That gets complicated. But a big house project or a car, I would label it car.

>> They're actually different accounts or are they like bucketed? >> Yeah, they're bucketed it in there. So, you can actually move money around between them. >> Oh, wow. That's nice. That's very convenient. >> So, that's that's one feature. And the syncing fund part, you can set that up in every dollar >> to actually market as a fund >> and you know, if it's let's say $1,200 for the year is what you need. Yep. >> You can set a syncing fund for a hundred bucks a month in every dollar.

>> Perfect. I love that. And and that's just one of the ways that every dollar really helps you have a a functioning budget doing the things that you want to do. I always say a good budget is detailed, realistic, and flexible. And that's what you can do. The budget's very flexible. You can add the line items in there. You connect your bank.

I'm a pro bank connect. You can track your transactions. You can set goals.

All of those things you can do within every dollar. And you can manage your syncing funds. I love that. All right.

>> So great. >> Mary's in Denver, Colorado. Mary, how

can we help out today?

>> Hi. Um, my question is I am married. Um,

my and we're having kind of a dispute on

retirement. Um, I contribute a lot to my

retirement account and my husband contributes nothing, just social security. So, I'm get asking your advice on how to address this issue.

>> So, how old how old are you guys?

Um, I'm 37 and my husband is 39.

>> Okay. And when you say he his his goal is we'll just live off social security.

Is that what I hear you saying?

>> Correct. Um, it's worked for his parents

and he believes that that's all he

needs. >> Okay. Are you guys out of debt?

>> We are. We're on baby step four.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, just to frame up this conversation and then we're going to go to town on this. So, let's talk about social security for a brief moment because he's not the only person in the world who has had that plan. But the truth is >> social security is only going to replace about 40% of your income and that's if it's still >> existent. The trust fund is going to be depleted by I think 20 32 or something

and that's going to lower the benefits by probably 23% or so. And the average

payment right now for social security is like 2 grand. >> Yeah. 18 to 2,000 which is >> you guys inflation. Imagine 30 years from now how much two grand is going to get you. >> Yeah. >> So not >> I think some of it is the actual facts and it may it may need to come from someone else. You guys might need to sit down with a financial adviser, a smart investor pro and have them walk him

through the reality of the situation and what could be. So sure, could you get by

off of social security? Ask people who are doing it. >> It's a sad reality. >> That's usually the calls that we get when people call in and their parents or their grandparents, if quote, all they have is social security, then the rest of the family, the younger members of the family are on the hook or feel like they're on the hook to help that person survive.

And that is certainly not the position you want. I think social security is fine as supplement, you know, as a supplemental piece of your retirement, but it should not be the main piece. Okay, we've made that argument. Uh, so let's talk about the convincing part.

How much are you doing? The 15% or

>> correct. Yeah, I do 15% and I make

significantly um a lot more than my husband and um I also work full-time and

he works kind of part-time. Um >> why is that? So that's my issue is

>> um well he works for his dad in a um his

dad owns a concrete company and his dad is getting to in my opinion needs to

retire and um it's the business is just

not it's just not going to really go anywhere. Um >> what's he earn working part time there?

What's he earn working part-time there?

>> Um he makes about 40,000 a year.

And what do you earn?

>> I make about 55,000 or sorry 155,000.

Yeah. >> Do you and and you if you don't want to answer this, you don't have to, but do you feel like because your income is so solid that he kind of feels like he can coast and doesn't really need to do much?

>> Yeah, I do. He also has three kids. I'm a stepmom to three kids and I have none of my own. Okay. Um, so my concern, I

guess long term is in my family, we have

a lot of um, inheritance coming down the line here and I want to protect myself and if I have a child of my own, >> um, you know, we're trying, but it's not working. And so I'm saying if if I have a child of my own, I want to be able to

pass down my family's inheritance to my child and I also want to, you know, I I

just want to protect myself. I I'm not saying like we're headed for like a divorce, but I just in some way feel like I'm being taken advantage of and >> yeah, >> I just don't know how to navigate it.

>> Well, you're seeing some red flags and you don't want to ignore them and I think that that's very smart and scary.

It's scary to not put your, you know, bury your face in the ground. You're trying to be alert and see what's going on. And I I applaud you for that.

>> Have you actually shared your why behind all of this? not asking him why is he not contributing but saying here's why I'm scared here's why I'm contributing I have a fear of not being prepared I want to leave an inheritance to our children and their children I want freedom in retirement I want to be able to travel I don't want financial stress does he care about any of that if you shared it with him >> yeah I've shared it with him and um

um yeah I've shared it with him I I before we even got married I shared with him my retirement dreams I want to have multiple homes in different states. I want to be able to travel. I want to see my family. I've shared all of that before we even got married because it was a concern of mine. And um I've just worked very hard in my career. I've learned, you know, where where I'm at.

And um >> what's his response?

>> He says that he

I think he honestly he's just content

being at home, being around his children. I I think that over the years his dreams have kind of changed compared to mine. >> Has he given up or is that that truly what he wants? He just wants to be a stay-at-home dad. Like which do you think it is honestly?

>> Um I think it's a little a little bit of

both. I think that he doesn't I think honestly he feels a little defeated the fact that I make so much more money and that I'm already so far ahead of my retirement. Um, and when I say I want to travel and I want to see my family, I have a large family. He has a very small family. I want to go >> golf and do all these things. He's very content being at home. It just >> very different changed. Yes.

>> It sounds like you guys were never aligned on any of these like values and goals. It was just sort of like, well, we're different. It'll be fine. But now, I mean, there's a chasm that's growing between you guys as you are very driven.

You're ambitious. You have certain goals and dreams. And he's gone, that's not for me. and he and the truth is he doesn't care about those for you.

>> How long have you been married?

>> We've been married five years and I think that the things have changed. Um we've been together almost nine and his children have grown up. They're now 20,

18, and we have an 11-year-old and the 20-year-old has a baby. And I think things as the children have gotten older, his priorities have become more of I want to be around my grandchildren.

I want to be around my children and less about traveling and doing all those things. But I feel free to do that because I don't have a child of myself.

>> I'll be honest with you, Mary. This sounds like something that can only be solved in a counselor's office.

>> This is a marriage problem far more than a financial problem. And I hope you guys can figure it out and align on on some vision for your future.

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I like that. >> A little bundle. >> There's a little bundle going on. Uh, you could also get uh books. These are hard hitters, guys. Heavy hitters. Baby Steps Millionaires. Come on. That's OG.

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And then the Total Money Makeover from the GOAT Dave Ramsey. I'm telling you guys, go to ramseyolutions.com/store or click the link in the description if you're watching. Remember, the sale ends Monday. Monday. Monday. All right. We got not bad. We got Grace who's in Dayton, Ohio. Hey, Grace. How can George and I help today?

>> Hi there. Good afternoon. So, my question is regarding whether I should use my home equity to pay for college. I

am a single mom to two teenagers, ages 14 and 16. Do you recommend a heliloc

for this type of situation? I owe 96,000

on the home and I have roughly 200,000 in equity. >> Oh boy. Okay. So, let me start with the

the empathy, which is I love that you're thinking about ways to for your kids not to go into debt. I love that you're thinking about ways to pay for college that doesn't put the debt burden on them. However, um putting it on you and your home in

your place of safety and security is something that I would never ever ever recommend.

And the reason is >> Okay. >> Yeah. That heliloc is like a credit card attached to your house. So you're going backwards. Now you got a variable interest rate while putting you at risk for foreclosure if you miss payments. So you're trading this unsecured education debt for secured debt attached to your house. >> Mhm. >> And and and let's let's unpack that just a little bit more because I think it could be helpful for you and anybody listening. Guys, when we when you bought

a house, you weren't thinking to yourself, "Oh, if I buy this house, it would make a very good credit card for me." You bought the house thinking, "This is a way that I can build wealth.

This is a way that I can have security.

This is a place of, do you see what I'm saying? Financial security and emotional security. >> You're like resetting the clock on when you can retire now, which puts you at risk of you becoming a burden to your kids. Mh.

>> So, I I want them to go to school debtree, but let's make a plan to take debt off the table and go, "Okay, what are all the ways, all the levers we can pull that don't involve debt?" And that might mean they're going to work part-time. It might mean they're going to go to a two-year >> community college to knock out their prerex.

>> How old are they? Are they ready to go? Right. Right now, >> they're 14 and 16.

>> Okay. So, there's a little bit of time.

Have there been conversations about college plans and what they might want to do because they're still young enough that they don't know.

>> Yeah, they do know they would love to go to a four-year school. So, I'm just trying to figure out how I can potentially make that work for them.

>> And is that do they have do they want to stay in state? Because I would start to set some boundaries on, hey, guess what?

School costs this much money. It's going to be $200,000 for you to go out of

state to this quote unquote dream school or quote name brand school or you can go to the school down the road for 5,000 a semester >> so you can start to help them understand the math on this.

>> Yes, I'm with you. And I think they're very willing to go to a reasonable instate school.

>> I I'm just not even sure I can afford that lower cost route um with you know

what I'm looking at. >> That's factor. you're not factoring in if they get scholarships, grants, and that's where the the pressure is on to do really well in school, get really good, you know, grades on those those SATs and >> and uh maybe there's even athletic scholarships. I don't know what they're into, but I would be looking at every scholarship and grant possible.

You saving up as much as you can in a college savings account like a 529 plan and having them choose an affordable school and possibly working part-time and even working now to start saving up for that. doing community college on that first on those first gen eds is going to save you a ton a ton. I wish I had done it if I had been able to. So that plus what George is saying, I mean that's how people that's exactly how people do it.

People call in all the time who paid cash for college and that's the way they do it. And I would say to George's point, don't be afraid to to have let them have some skin in the game. You know, this is the point, especially for the 16-year-old, applying for scholarships and creating an environment where they can be accepted for those scholarships. That ought to be their full-time job.

You know, also while they're working at a supermarket or McDonald's or wherever else they're working.

>> Okay, I like that. >> Yeah. And if you wanted some help with the conversation, you can go watch Borrowed Future. It's a free documentary we created. It's on our YouTube channel.

Just search Borrowed Future. And that will cause them to be asking questions and it will likely scare them away from going into debt for college. And so that way we can do the work for you. Uh I also talk about this in my book, Breaking Free from Broke.

I have a whole chapter on student loans and at the end, how to go to college debtree. That's the goal because I don't want to set you back in retirement and you just take on the burden and go, "Well, at least the kids went to school debtree. Now I'm shackled to debt for the next 20 years." >> Yeah. And I mean, we see that not just with Helock's grace, but even with folks doing parent plus loans.

It's just it it really is. I think what it is is parent guilt, in this case, mom guilt, where it's like, I don't want to be the reason that they go into debt >> or I didn't do a good job.

>> And it reflects on me as a parent. And the truth is I I I've said this before and I'll say it again. The ability to pay for college is a privilege both for the parent and for the the child. If you're there's plenty of people who meet us uh on down the line, their kids have already gone to school and they never they didn't find Ramsey solutions in time to kind of create that pathway. And that's okay. Like we're all learning.

We're all making mistakes. But I will say the most important thing that you can do even more so than paying for the college is just starting to have the conversation very early and very often on what the expectations are. So if you're just saying hey this is what my parents did for me. They said there is no college fund. We don't have the 529.

If Jade if you want to go to college you either need to be very smart or very good at sports. And they said that straight up and I was like okay got it.

Let me let me work on this. Yes. And kids, I I think I hate to say the word kids, teenagers, I think they they're responsive to that, especially if the if it's the household that you brought them up in, which is, hey, we're responsible for ourselves and, you know, we're self starters and that sort of thing. So, >> I was just at a local high school in in Columbia, Tennessee, and we just released this video on my YouTube channel. I asked high schoolers money questions they weren't ready for.

>> Oh. >> And it was shocking to me, Jade, that I was the first person to be asking them questions like, "Hey, what do you want to do after high school?" Okay. What's that going to cost you? But do you plan on taking student loans? Yeah. >> How much student loans you would you how much debt would you be willing to go into to get this degree?

>> And what were was it was it crazy what they were saying? >> Oh, they had no one Well, the funniest one was this girl wanted to be she said, "I want to stay at home." I went, "That's sweet. You want to have kids?" And no, she said, "No, I don't want kids." I said, "You want to be a stay-at-home wife?" I said, "How will you spend your time?" She said, "Chopping." >> Oh. >> And I said, "I wish you the best of luck with this plan." And God bless the man who signs up for that.

Oh, >> but a lot of the kids were just sort of like, well, college is the next step because I was told it's the next step. I don't really have a game plan. I hope I have a job on the other side that pays me enough to knock out my student loans and whatever other debt I have. And so, it just reminder that parents need to be having these conversations early and often.

It should not be a YouTuber like me asking your kid for the first time at 16 or 17 how how they're going to pay for college, what's the game plan, why are they going?

>> And their friends are going. Exactly.

>> Because the football team is great. >> Exactly. >> That's the real reason kids are going. The brochures, they don't talk about how great the library is and the quality of education. They're showing you the water slides, the cafeteria, the football team, how exciting it's going to be.

That's how they market these things to get you to spend what you spend.

>> I also think another driver is just like the freedom. The way I get freedom is I go to college. Like I have to go away, then I can have a dorm room.

>> The further I go away, the better. And also the more expensive. >> Yeah. So true, George. Yeah. Having these conversations so so important. And again, if you're able to do a 529 and fund your kids' college, that's amazing.

What a privilege. That's fabulous. Good for you. Good for them. But you're not if you're not able to, that's also okay.

As long as you're having these conversations, as long as you take debt off the table, totally fine to tell your kid, "Hey, you're gonna work for this.

I'm gonna work for this and you are too, and you're going to work more." That's right. >> And they may they may not thank you now, but I promise you, when they're in their 20s and they look at all their friends with student loan debt, they're going to go, "Mom, thank you. Dad, thank you for allowing me to avoid student loans.

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Well, we're coming to the end of the line, so that means one thing. Scripture and quote of the day. George, >> can't miss it. Galatians 6:4-5 says,

"Each one should test their own actions.

Then they can take pride in themselves alone without comparing themselves to someone else. For each one should carry their own load." Underline that. Check

yourself before you wreck yourself. >> You best check yourself before you wreck yourself. All right. Mark Twain, not Dr.

Dre, said, "A man cannot be comfortable without his own approval."

>> I'll chew on that. >> I'll chew on that a little bit. Come on, Mark Twain. We were just on Dr. Dre and here you come. All right.

>> The Dre of his time, some say.

>> Some say. All right. Wow, that really makes me want to laugh. Alex from Los Angeles is on the line. What's going on, Alex? >> Hi, guys. Thank you for the Dr. D shout out. He's real.

>> So, um yeah. So, I had a question basically for um how do how do the baby steps involve a newborn baby that we had

with my partner. And with those baby steps, um what what are the deciding factors that that decide who moves in with who? >> Is it who makes the most money? Is it who who's closer to work?

Is it >> who has the most family around? How does that all tie in together? >> Well, they're definitely all factors. A coin toss or a thumb war would be my my favorite options.

>> Oh man. >> Are you guys getting married or tell us tell us about the nature of the relationship. >> That is that is um in the upcoming future. I'm getting married together of course having a strong >> um family foundation to begin with.

And then just I guess just making sure that I do the best that I can for my family. um whether it's saving the most money, whether it's, you know, um moving into the cheapest city, I just want to see what what guidelines are there for, um the baby steps and, you know, creating a family. >> Well, are you and your partner in different cities? You've mentioned that a couple of times. >> Cities. Yes. >> Where are you and where is she?

>> Um it's about a 40-minute commute from the both cities. >> Okay. Yeah, >> we'll keep that uh confidential. Um, my

I I want to get to your question and I don't want to sidetrack it, but I'm kind of like, why not just get married? Like, solidify it. The baby's here. There's no question you're going to be living together and starting a family together.

I think, George, that that would be top on my list first and then I'd be looking at >> spots. We can have the party later, but why not? If I mean, if if we are >> we're doing this thing, we're in this together for life with this new baby. Uh why not just go down to the courthouse, get the marriage certificate and and have some protections in place for both of you?

>> Definitely. I I I feel like that would definitely make the household stronger um income as well. You know, we can, you know, get um combined incomes and >> get our goals going, get the baby steps knocked out.

>> Yeah, definitely. Um she's not really into this like mindset like saving money and you know, building a good foundation. So, I guess that's kind of what >> What is she into? >> Coming with me? >> Uh, like working, going home, buying stuff, jewelry, things like that. Um, >> got it. Okay.

>> Are you the saver? How much money do you have? >> Yeah, I'd say so. Um, about a couple 15 to 20. >> And do you have any debt?

>> Um, I'm Yes, I do. I'm working on paying that off. Yes. >> Okay. >> Um, it's about 20 in total. So, yeah.

>> What she have, do you know? I don't know. That's kind of, you know, >> on her side of the court. Um, we haven't been as vocal financially, but she does know that I have this mindset of >> getting towards that end of the baby steps. But again, I don't want to scare her away and be like, "Oh man, if I move in with him, >> can we be real, Alex? You guys made a baby together. I think it's time to get

real with each other." >> Well, how new is the newborn? How How young is this baby? >> One month. One month. >> I I will say this.

come at me in the comments. But if you have this conversation with a one-month-old and she's still riding high on hormones and whatever, it may not end well for you tonight. So, I

might I might spend the next >> one to two months and gather my information and journal and think through what it is that I want to say and kind of you do some self-preparation, give her some time to kind of adjust to life, then have the conversation, ease into it. Uh, >> postpartum is real. It >> It's a real thing. You're talking to somebody who was crazy. So, um, >> was she working before?

>> She was, but she's been off leave ever since. So, about a month with no work. I I went back to work two weeks after she was born. >> So, how is she covering her bills and the baby right now?

>> Um, through her savings that she might that she has. She did tell me she has a little bit saved and she also has uh family leave. So, it's not I don't think she's lost too much of her income.

>> Okay. What's the expectation of of you chipping in and helping pay for things?

>> Um, well, I mean, if she moves in with me, I'd be covering the rent from for both of us together and my daughter. Um, you know, just leading the household in a sense, putting food on the table.

>> How long did Can I just ask uh and no judgment, how long did you guys know each other before the baby?

>> Before the pregnancy? A few years. Okay.

So, you you know her.

>> Okay. >> Yeah, definitely. We've been Yeah, she she knows my family. I know her family.

>> Okay. Good. Good. Good. >> But, um, yeah. And you do you live near where you work? You work in an office?

>> I do. Yes. I I I got promoted recently

as well. I start a new position in two weeks. So I >> Congrats. What are you making? >> Getting closer to my um 90.

>> Awesome. And what was she doing and what is she making? >> The same thing, but um she's making 70.

>> Okay. And she does plan on going back to work at this point.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Well, I mean, it's a discussion for you two to have as far as who's going to go where and what the commutes are like.

There's some logistical pieces of this that I would factor into the equation >> and you know, what is she paying for rent, what are you paying for rent, how much can we afford together as a family as we do a budget together. And again, I would not combine incomes until you're married and I would get married very soon so that we can combine our lives fully because until then, this is just going to be messy and awkward and Venmoing each other. Definitely >> the things I'd be thinking about uh as priorities in deciding I'd be thinking about >> if we need family around for child care than whoever's closest to the family who has been said that they would help.

I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about the place with the lower rent because if something happens and she becomes more attached than she thought she was going to be and decides, you know what, I kind of do want to be home more. Having a lower cost of living is going to behoove you.

like possible drivers on this. I don't think the size of the apartment would be as big of a driver because, you know, if you decide to have more children down the line, you can always move that.

That's fine. But I think those top two tend to be the ones that it's like, okay, daycare is always a big ticket thing. So, having family is so important. And then of course, yeah, the >> and lease agreements as well, like who signed up for what, how much time is left on the lease, can we get out early, which one has the least amount of damage if we exit early?

And so I would be looking into all those factors. And those are things you can do now kind of on your own. You know, you can ask her for some details without getting into the weeds, but yeah, >> there's going to be a lot of logistics here to figure out. And again, it's just going to simplify everything if we can combine our life, be married.

It's just one team, one dream. >> One team, one band, one sound. Remember Drum Line? Nick, >> I missed that one.

>> You ever seen Drum Line? Have we had this discussion? >> I think we didn't. I think you judged me last time we had this discussion.

>> They probably did. Listen, the movie's not all that good. >> Do I look like a guy who would enjoy drum line? >> Yeah, it's H.B.CU centered.

>> Well, it's more the I don't do band stuff. >> You do bands.

>> Yeah, I'm punk rock. All right.

>> Bonav. >> There we go. Are you happy that I said it the right way? >> Thank you for not saying Bon Ivor offensive to all people groups. >> Oh, well, let it be known that I have said it that way as well. And I believe you were the one who corrected me, so >> Oh, that's great.

>> You live and you learn. All right. Do we want to take Jessica or can we can we get to it? >> Can we take a social question? We have some great ones here. >> All right, Jessica, call us back tomorrow. I promise we'll get to you. But if people Let me just say this.

People don't know this. The Ramsay show is on the radio as much as it is on YouTube. And so we have a clock guys that we have to hit. We have to go to break at a certain time. We have to do all that. So don't be mad at us. >> The segments are like exactly 8 minutes and 34 seconds and it's our job to police that and try to get in and out.

So >> and that's why sometimes it's like we feel like we don't take as much time.

Don't be mad at us. It's just the clock.

We have to make the radio folks happy, too. Well, >> we got uh less than a minute. What do you got for me? >> All right.

Should we include our child's 529 accounts as part of our as part of our net worth or not since they're going to be spent eventually? >> Oh, that's a fun one. >> I like that question. >> I mean, you can include it for now, but I wouldn't include it as far as your nest egg and retirement projections.

But yes, it is an asset and who knows if they'll actually use all of it. >> Yeah. And growing on on accounting terms, it all counts. But I would not count it as far as my future financial plans.

>> Do you think about yours when you when you sit at night and you ponder your network? >> I do. You know, well, I check it to see where it's at cuz every month I contribute. So, I like to see the number go up and to the right.

>> I agree. F. I see what you did there.

Pardon the pun. Well, guys, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 285. You’ll Always Live Paycheck-to-Paycheck Until You Have a Budget | September 2, 2025


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| **URL** | [Watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi-wWecd_5A) |
| **Language** | English (auto-generated) (en) |
| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:09:55 |

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[Music] Brought to you by the Every Dollar app.

Start budgeting for free today.

This is the Ramsay Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about their life, specifically their money, their work, and their relationships. We want to help you win in all of those areas. The phone number for you to jump in today is88255225.8825.

88 8255225.

Alongside the fabulous Jade Warshaw, I'm Ken Coleman and we are ready to go to help you. Let's start it off with Dallas in Birmingham. That's not confusing at all. Dallas, how can we help?

>> Good a good morning. Uh good afternoon.

I'm sorry. >> That's okay. Uh just wanted to my wife,

my lovely wife and I uh of uh 26 years

we are just swamped in debt >> and uh I have been doing we've been doing this for so long. Uh I am just uh

we're beaten down with it. So >> we're trying to get some help here. Uh we have a a decision. Uh well, we were

kind of trying to decide what to do. Um,

I were, uh, where do you want me to start? Um, I have $76,000 in student

loans. >> Uh, I did do, uh, two stupid moves. I,

uh, I'm an avid Dave uh, Ramsay fan, by

the way. I listen to you guys podcast and I listen to you a lot. So, I did do two stupid things. cuz I bought a truck uh after selling >> uh my truck to pay for uh my baby our

baby's uh first uh semester in college.

So, I missed my truck. I bought another one. And my wife retired a couple of

years ago. So, I got the bright idea to go out and try to buy her a car.

>> Oh, no. Okay.

>> Yes. >> How old are you guys?

>> Uh we're both 50. I turned I'm sorry. I turned 51 and she will be turning 51 here shortly. We're high school sweethearts. >> Um, sorry. I know that had nothing to do with anything. >> Hey, that's a good year, by the way. And 74 is a good year. I was born in 74.

It's a good year. Great. Great. Good year. Good year. That's not relevant to anybody but us. Thank you very much.

>> Uh, give us the debt load on the car and the truck. >> Okay. Uh, the debt load on the car on the truck I owe 29,000.

Uh, her car we owe 33,000.

>> Okay. Anything else? >> And uh 13 Yes. $13,000 in credit card

debt. So uh that's >> that's it. >> The uh well then of Well, uh house. Yes,

we have a home. >> Um uh you want the total on on the home what we owe? We owe 373.

>> Okay. Just I was just curious about that. Tell me about your income. What I know you said your wife's retired, but what do you guys take home every month?

>> Well, actually, she started back working again. start back working and then >> uh so she's uh she's a teacher, she's a retired teacher and then she's teaching now in the private school >> uh system. So >> what are you guys bringing home?

>> Uh uh total my pay varies. Uh last year

I brought home uh >> think about it by the month. That'll help you out when you see the month.

What's it look like? >> I wrote it down. Uh my wife, she actually and I wrote down numbers that we actually touched. So, she actually touches $4,049 a month. >> Good. >> And my pay varies due to overtime and things like that. But >> give me a middle month. >> A middle uh you I can do you better. I can do the worst month. The worst. Uh well, >> why are you at this point? I'll just take a number. I'm anxious for a number.

Just any number at this point. >> I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Okay. Uh uh 6723 is what I'm totaling

this far. >> So, you guys are take home. So, you guys are taking home almost 11,000 take-home.

Is that what I'm hearing?

>> I I'll say 10. Yes. >> Okay, great. 10K a month. How much is your mortgage?

>> Uh mortgage is 2137.

>> Okay, fine. Okay.

Listen, that was a lot, Dallas, to get to that. Okay, so uh you called in

saying that you guys are just over overwhelmed. Um >> when did your wife start back working?

Did that just now start or has she been back for a couple months >> or since last year I should say?

>> Oh, no, no, no. Last year. Uh, she started back last year. >> Okay. So, you've had her income. Tell me. Yes. >> Um, the So, you did mention a child that went to school, but it sounded like you were able to cash flow that or is college still on the plate?

>> College is still on the plate now and it's mainly her Well, it's mainly her apartment. >> Are you So, you're cash flowing that?

>> Yes. >> What is the Okay, I'm going to I'm going to jump to the crux of this thing quick.

Dallas. But I want one more number. What are you paying for her apartment?

>> 750 a month. >> 750. Okay. So, >> does she have roommates?

>> Uh, yes. But it's kind of one of those things where they both pay the 750.

>> And it's Yeah. >> So, what is the car What is the car worth? I know you owe 33. Is it Is it worth more than you owe?

>> Um, no.

>> What about the truck? >> I know. We're Well Well, I What? I'm What? I'm getting confused. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. >> Are you upside down? All right. Here's it. Let me drive. Let me drive. Hold up.

>> Okay. >> Let me drive cuz we we we got it. We got three minutes. So, you you answer.

That's okay. I got you, dog. All right.

So, are you upside down in the car?

>> Yes. I don't have those exact numbers.

>> That's okay. Are you upside down on the truck? >> Very. 14,000.

>> All right. That's okay. We won't spend any time on that. Okay.

So, Jade, I I'm I'm leaning in here. I want Jay to be able to help. What I think is happening, Dallas, is you guys have no idea how to budget because even with these numbers, and I and I don't want to take up any more time on what your >> Well, you know what? Do you know your minimum?

Do you know your payments on the car and the truck? What are the truck? >> You need those. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

car payment is 668.

>> All right. That gives Jade a thing. I bet you guys just don't know how to budget. That's what I think.

I don't think it you should it it you have debt so you're going to feel the squeeze but based on the numbers I feel like the biggest squeeze is from the fact that you guys aren't on a budget and Ken and I can hear that in the way you're talking about it. So before you get off the call we are going to set you up with every dollar. Um, and that's going to help you get control over. Just seeing the numbers, Dallas, is going to give you so much control so that you know actually where your money's going and you'll be able to see once you plug the numbers into your budget how much margin you should have left to be attacking your smallest debt.

I'm going to give you uh three bits of homework.

>> All right? So, you guys are sitting down and I want you to complete it. Don't start it and be like, "Oh, tomorrow we'll do it." I want you to complete the budget tonight so you can see that margin. Uh, second thing is, uh, Ken and I want you to go on kellybluebook.com and get the true numbers on what the

what you owe on these cars versus what they're worth so that you can find out the amount that you're upside down.

Okay, so that's the ne next thing. Find out how much I am up upside down from a true source, not just, you know, boooo who took a look at your car the other day. Don't trust Boo Boo. >> Yeah.

Uh real number. Uh and then the third thing is now we're going to find out is it something that you know I don't know what your credit's looking like, but you're going to need to get a loan for the difference on this upside down stuff. Whether you go to the credit union, whether you go I don't care where you go.

And get ourselves into into a cash hooptie. I didn't ask you, but do you have any money saved? Quick answer.

>> Do not. That's the issue. I I've I had to stop my retirement because I can't afford to pay. >> But that was right. That was right. That was the right thing to do.

>> Okay. And we just cannot save a dollar.

>> It's because you don't It's because you don't have a budget. And to Ken's point, you're spending that's going to stop today. Yeah. >> Because you're going to see Yeah.

debt is a problem, but you want to know Dallas. You're also going to see we've been going out to eat and we've been doing things we can't afford and it really is just a lack of sight line on this. >> It is. Dallas, I'll say this as point blank as I can say it.

I'm doing a rough look at the numbers you gave us. Plus, I'm looking at utilities, groceries.

>> Your take-home, you ready for some good news, Dallas? If you do what Jay told you >> and use the budget, you're going to be able to put a couple thousand dollar a month towards debt. Yes, >> you guys have the margin. You just have no plan. >> No plan. [Music]

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something.

Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids and I immediately went and got term life insurance." >> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse. They've lost somebody important to them and they don't know what to do next.

>> Me, too. I mean, you're going to have a crisis here. And you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up.

Or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. That's exactly >> these are the two options. Take care of your dad gum family, man.

Yeah. >> To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Xander and the team at Xander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to xander.com or

call 8003564282.

[Music]

All right, Quinn is up next in South Carolina. Quinn, how can we help today?

>> Hi, I'm currently in college. I'm $49,000 in debt and I have three

semesters left and I still am going to

need to come up with about 28,000.

>> Okay. And what are we pursuing?

>> So, uh, mechanical engineering.

>> Okay. All right. Keep going.

And so the I'm currently a senior, but I

switched majors a couple times. So I'm going to have an extra three semesters after my senior year. And my parents

have helped me these four years. And then the next three semesters I'll be on

my own. And I'm curious on whether I should continue to do federal loans

uh to pay for that or if I should or how

I should go about paying for that. Well, when you said your parents were helping you the first four years, what does that mean? Because you already have 50,000 in debt.

>> So, they would help me like they paid for my rent and uh anything that federal

loans plus my scholarships didn't cover, they would cover. >> Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Okay. So, the problem

here and you need another 28,000 is what you said. >> What school are you? Where are you at?

>> Uh, Clemson University.

Okay. Um I think the problem

are you doing any part-time work?

>> Uh I I do.

>> And how much does that bring you a month? >> I make about depending on the week and like my classes I make between like a 100red and 200 a week.

>> Okay. >> Which pays for groceries and then a little extra. >> Right. But the problem is none of this is touching tuition. And the tuition is the problem because that's what you're taking out loans for. the problem. I Let's go back and identify the problem.

I know there's not a whole lot you can do for the spilled milk, but your school is too expensive for you.

>> That's the problem. And so, you have you're at a really critical point where you're going to keep going or you're going to stop and re-evaluate. And part of you has already stopped because you're calling here, >> but you have to make a very clear decision whether or not you're going to

stop borrowing money or not.

And it has to start there and then from there we can decide now what are our what levers do we want to pull? But the first question is are you ready to stop actually borrowing money?

>> Yes. I'd like to borrow no more money on top of this. >> So let me tell you what I would do. Uh I'm going to walk you through the questions I would ask myself but I'm asking you. Is that cool?

>> Okay. >> All right. Here we go. >> Absolutely. >> What is it that I want to do, Quinn?

What do I want to do? Let's fast forward and assume we have this degree. What would be ideal?

Uh, I'd like to work in the automotive or aerospace industry.

>> Fantastic. And what would an entry- level job look like?

>> Uh, payment wise? >> No. What are you doing?

Uh a a lot of it is like uh doing tests

on uh engines and uh like

uh already produced like products to make like see if they're >> Got it. I don't need to understand it.

I'm walking you through an exercise. But you understand what entry level looks like correct >> in those two fields. Okay. Wonderful. So the question is the next question I would have is can I do those entry- level positions now without the degree?

What's the answer to that?

>> No, >> you cannot do entry level without that mechanical engineering degree.

>> Not an entrylevel engineering job.

>> Okay. Can you do adjacent work that is

similar to it? Uh but but you're you're you're you don't have the degree but you're doing similar functional type work.

Um, I'm not sure about that answer. I

could look into that though. >> All right. Because I'm clueless about your your your fields, I can ask this question. You want to work with engines?

Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. And this is this is a mechanical engineering degree, so I know you don't want to be a full-blown mechanic who works on my car, but it's the same function. True or false?

>> Yeah. >> Great. True. Do you have any idea what mechan like could you could you go and do basic mechanic work right now on something?

>> Yes. >> And you have any idea what that pays per hour?

>> Uh I do not. >> That's pretty good.

Pretty good. So now I've arrived at a

solution because I've committed to Jade and I've committed to myself. I'm I'm playing Quinn right now. >> Yep. >> Okay.

Yeah. >> And and I'm not going to debt is not an option. So this is where innovation comes from. By the way, as a mechanical engineer, you should appreciate this point.

>> True innovation happens at its purest and best form as a result of a lack of resources. >> That's right. >> Right. >> It's why everybody loved the old show MacGyver that you're not old enough to know.

But Macgyver was innovative. All right. The guy didn't have it. He was under pressure.

some duct tape and the inside of a big pen and he killed a man and operated on him at the same time and it was innovation and we loved it. Right? It was this. So, so what I'm what I'm challenging you to do right now is is to be innovative. And if I'm you and I've

got $28,000 I got to come up with seems

insurmountable when we put it in the form of a student loan. But when I say, "Wait, can I make two grand a month using my basic mechanical skill set?" The answer is absolutely bargain basement. You can. So, if it's me, I'm going to press pause on Clemson because here's what I know about Clemson.

>> Clemson's going to be there. >> Yeah, that's right. >> When you come up with 28,000. So, my

last point, I want to bring my my partner in here on this one. Uh, I would press pause. I'd go make $28,000

and then I would show back up to Clemson. They'll take your 28,000 whether it's tomorrow or two years from now. And it doesn't take two years to make 28,000. I'm making the case to you that you can make 28,000 in less than 12 months.

>> Yeah, you can do that. >> And go turn a wrench and get dirty and get nasty >> and go, I never want to do this kind of mechanical work, but I'm going to do it because I have to do it so that I can do what I want to do later. And that's what I would do. I would come back with the 28,000.

I'd lay it on the counter for the Clemson folks and go, "Paid it in full. I'm gonna finish my courses. I'm out of here." And now I'm rocking and rolling. >> Yeah.

>> That's what I would do. >> I I think what would you do, >> Ken? I think you're 100% right, Quinn. I think your battle here is with the clock because people think I'm in I'm in college.

I got to do it in four years. I got to do it back to back.

And if you can change that and say the

most important thing is that I get where I want to go. >> That's right. >> And where you want to go is not just you you made it clear. You said where I want to go is not just where I want to end up is not just with a degree.

I want to end up with a degree without a dime more debt. >> And since you said that's the destination, then you have to be willing to invest the time to go the right way to get there. Otherwise, you won't end up there.

more of debt. So that's those are your your guiding lights there is you want to be clear about where you want to end up >> with this degree without a scent more of debt and you've got to wrap your head around the fact that it's going to take time to get there and that's okay.

>> Yeah, I love that. I love that Jay just

nailed the I gave you a here's what I would do tactically, but she gave you the mindset that you're going to have to adopt. You've got to listen to what she said. If you adopt that mindset, you go wait a second, I've now changed the clock. I'm not racing against this

>> concocted societal norm, >> right? >> I'm racing against debt >> now. It's a different race I'm running.

I don't want more debt. And I throw another one at you.

>> Um, how many credit hours are we talking about that you Is it was it two more semesters or three more semesters?

>> Uh, three more semesters.

>> How many hours a year I paid for? Would you be able to do mechanical work and carry the class load?

>> Um, not at a full >> Okay. All right. >> time student load. >> That's fine because I was going to challenge you to keep on, you know, getting a I mean I I got a movie in my mind. >> Tell me what movie, Ken.

>> Um, what is that movie? Uh, >> describe it. >> It's uh Matt Damon and uh Goodwill Hunting. >> Thank you.

You know, I I I I got a hustler in my mind. Thank you. This is what happens when you throw an alleyoop to somebody who can dunk it. She just comes in and broke the broke.

She just ripped the rim off. Uh, love that. But that's what I'm talking about. I'm talking about >> bluecollar attitude.

I'm going to work my way through this.

>> while we're doing it. And so we got a little grease under our fingernails.

>> That's the price of admission. So chin up. new mindset that Jade gave you and decide today, I'm going to finish this and make it a new race. I'm going to race against the societal norm.

>> Come on, Quinn. >> Uh I we believe in you, man. So, go do it.

[Music]

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[Music]

Hey folks, buying or selling your home is a really big deal. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's hard to know what's happening in the housing market. And we want to make the latest trends easy to understand. Uh give you an example, median home prices stayed steady last month at about $439,000.

The number of homes for sale hit 1 million for the third month in a row. So buyers have more options and more negotiating power while sellers are the ones facing a little bit more competition. Uh the average 15-year fixed rate dipped a bit to 5.86% 86%

last month. So, if you're debt free and have a fully funded emergency fund and a solid down payment, now is in fact a great time to buy or sell your home. If you'd like to learn more about the housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, go to ramseiesolutions.com/market.

That's rammissysolutions.com/market.

Or you can click the link in the show notes if you are listening via podcast and YouTube. Paul is up in Washington.

Paul, how can we help? Hey guys, thanks for taking my call. Sure. Um, about five months ago, my wife and I took uh FPU and we've been working on Baby Step 2.

Um, so about two years ago, I took out

$100,000 heliloc against our primary

residence in order to make down payments on three different rental houses.

Um is it was an idea to you know for

retirement plan was to try to accumulate a bunch of rental houses. Um

we're seeing problems with that. They've not been cash flowing well. One of them especially that one's for sale right now. >> Good. >> When it sells we're going to pay off um we have about $17,000

in um like between a car loan and credit cards. We're going to pay that off. And then we're also going to I was thinking it would be wise to have a six-month emergency fund for the rental houses um

to cover their mortgages in case the rental income doesn't. Um

>> how many rental houses are there?

>> Um currently there's three, but one of them is for sale. We close on it next week, >> but none of them are cash flowing positively on a consistent basis.

Correct. >> Not consistently. No. Are you are you uh

do you have equity in all three?

>> Yes.

>> Okay. >> Um we have Okay.

>> Let me let me address something before the call gets going too further.

>> We're going to tell you what to do, but I want to go and address something you just kind of said. This the emergency fund, the six-month emergency fund is not there to cover the rent uh the the

rental income on these homes. That's not what the emergency fund is for. It's for actual emergencies that affect your life

that are that are your expenses, your your income, you know, your bills. You you want to cover your expenses. It's for your personal expenses, not for your rental homes.

>> Okay. >> So, that's a not that's a non-starter for us. >> That's right. Okay, Ken, I'm glad you clarified that because I that is so important. Um, what it sounds like is you could benefit from some simplification here. Am I >> Is that fair?

It is fair. Um, >> okay. That's question. That's question one. So that you said that was fair.

Question two would be >> like you said these these properties aren't making you any money. Right.

>> Right. >> So my since they're not making money and

since you could benefit from some simplicity, I would recommend selling them since they're all worth more.

>> Mhm. >> And you could actually make some cash on these things. uh get out of these $100,000 of HELOCs and obviously, you

know, clear all your other personal debt and kind of start this idea over from scratch and just build it the right way >> because >> yeah, >> if you do that and you're able to use some of this money cuz I I mean, we could go through it if you want. If you were to sell all three, what would you end up with after fees and everything?

Um, I think if selling all three, I think we would clear the $100,000 HELOC

and the 17K in debt. I think that is about it. Walk away. We would be at zero

debt except for our primary residence.

>> Tell him what he's won, Jay. >> Well, you've won peace and now you've won the ability to focus in on your security, which is your primary residence. What do you owe on that?

>> Uh, shoot and No. What are we at on

that? I'm sorry. I'm not prepared for that. >> That's okay. Around 100 and a half, something around there.

>> 160. >> Okay. 160. And then what's you guys' income without the I mean, your properties weren't making anything, but what's your income?

>> Um, after like take-home, I think we're

at about 110. >> Okay. So, with that income and with what you owe on the mortgage, I mean, with a little intensity or with just being intentional, you could clear your own mortgage out if you wanted to. very very quickly. And then now you can start this real estate dream if you even wanted to.

Like this might have been your last I don't know, maybe you're sick of it at this point, but now you could go back in and say, "Okay, next time we do this, we're going to do it for cash. We're going to move a lot slower, and we're going to make sure that no matter what, we're not putting oursel in a risky spot, and we're going to be making money on whatever we do." >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's been the gist of how we've been feeling. I just uh it

was hard to let go of the idea that, you know, down the line we would have all this rental income, but like I'm afraid we won't even make it there.

>> Not now. But to Jade's point, if you clear all this and now you go about it the right way, >> you you still have time. How old are you?

>> Uh 44. >> And what do you have in retirement?

>> Um about 30K.

>> Okay. So we got to build that. >> Yeah. >> I am not thinking about houses.

Let me tell you why. Just to just to kind of if if I was in your shoes, this may help your stomach and your heart sell these three homes. Here's why. >> Okay, the three homes, let's say that you guys were uh cash flow positive, which you're not on these things, but um let's just say, you know, because we we hear this call all the time and somebody will say, "Well, we're clearing we're clearing about $600 to $800 a month on these things." Or or let's go to a th000.

Let's do a round number.

All right, that's $12,000 a year.

>> Okay, that doesn't include expenses, right? That home repairs.

>> $12,000. I would rather be investing in

the investment strategy that Ramsay teaches than I would be fiddling around with houses, especially in your shoes.

You're not what I would call completely behind the eight-ball. You're a little bit behind at your age with only 30,000, but the baby steps is the play for you.

So, you get the you get this debt out of the way by selling these houses. And now we attack baby step three. Go to three to six months of your expenses. And then we think, all right, now we're all baby step four in the sense of we're we're now 15% fully uh funded retirement

accounts. And uh let's see what happens above and beyond that. But I I just think for a lot of people, the rental house of income, it just looks and

smells and sounds way better than it actually is. >> It's a lot of work. A lot of work for

$12,000.

>> It will never be me, Ken. It's too much.

>> I'm not doing it. >> Yeah. No. >> On the other hand, I look at my little dashboard every month and I go, "Oh, look what the stock market did today." >> That's true. That's the true passive income. >> Money. I was snoring. You know, there's

like I got a guy in the audience. Thumbs up to me and he's a you're you're a fellow snorer, but we're making money while we snore, bro. >> Yes, sir. That's the play.

>> Yeah. Everybody Everybody talks about real estate like it's some form of passive >> Yeah. >> income. It's so not passive.

>> Um but I think I mean I don't know what your wife says about this. You guys have to go home and talk about it. But I think to solve for the two things that you said, which is, hey, it's fair to say, I could benefit from some simplicity. And the truth is, these things aren't making me any money anyway. But you are losing, you know, your peace over them. So, >> yeah, your blood pressure is going to drop. >> You're going to sleep better. Uh, the baby steps is the plan for you, Paul.

It's not too late. But I would say at 41, >> this is the time to make this move.

>> And let me just be fair. Let me because because somebody's listening and going, "Gosh, you know, anytime somebody calls in with real estate, you guys are telling them to sell it." That's not necessarily true. If he had called in and said, "Hey, I've got these three properties. They're killing it, you know, banging." I would have maybe suggested selling one possibly to clear some debt.

And I would have said, "Yeah, keep the others. Here's the plan to pay them off." Like there there is a time where somebody calls in and they've gone and done what they're going to do. And it's not always about telling them to, you know, fold everything and start from scratch. That's So, just put that that's actually a great point.

It depends on a person's financial position. I know some of you going, "Well, Ken, okay, my little rant about the $12,000." That's okay if you're no debt.

>> And your retirement's great. And this is something we're going we're trying to pay this off as quick as we can. And now we're not doing it for the $12,000 a year. We're doing this for a house that, you know, is going to be worth 400 grand and we're going to pay it off in a year.

Now, that's real money, right? That's 400 grand cash that I could unload.

That's the idea. So, we're not anti-real estate. It's just does it fit the baby steps? Does it fit your financial situation? That's the question.

[Music]

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[Music]

Hey, if y'all are enjoying the show, if it's helping you, would you help us? You can do that by liking the show, whether you're listening on podcast or on YouTube, subscribing on any of those platforms, and of course, share, share, share. That helps us so much. There's no marketing strategy in the world that competes with the good old-fashioned word of mouth, and that's how you can help us.

So, thank you for those that do, and we'd love for you to continue to help us there. Mary is up now in Boston, Massachusetts.

>> Hi. Yeah. Um, I really would like to retire, but I'm very nervous about it.

I'm not sure I can afford it.

>> Okay. Give us some numbers so we can figure this out with you.

>> Okay. Well, I'm still working.

>> Um, I work full-time. I'm 71.

>> What's your What is your What is your income?

>> It's about 100,000. >> Great. What do you do?

>> I'm sorry. >> What do you do for a living?

>> Sales. S. >> What are you selling?

Um, a logical surprise.

>> Nice. Good for you. Is that I'm just curious because this is awesome. I think you like you're the hero of today's show. Um, that is so fantastic. Still be

crushing it. Is it straight commission or is it a a base plus commission?

>> Straight salary. >> Straight. Oh, salary. Okay, good. Great.

Good for you. >> Okay. All right. So, walk us through what you have. >> Yeah.

>> Well, I have about a million and a half in a 401k.

Okay, >> I have about a million and a half in stocks, probably a little more than that.

>> Mary, I've got great news. This is breaking news. It's coming in my right ear right now. I'm getting this fresh from James right here. Breaking news. He says you're fine, Mary. >> I mean, I >> You have $3 million.

>> I was getting out my calculator like we were going to have real work to do.

>> I was nervous for you. >> A lot of expenses, though. >> What are your expenses? >> Okay. Yeah, let's hear it.

Well, I have two houses, two cars. I mean, they're paid for, but then taxes, insurance, >> Mary, >> you only need one car, so sell the other car, but it's not costing you.

>> Well, they're in different states.

>> Okay. Well, >> why are they different states? You alo you got a you got two homes in two states? >> Yes. >> Are the homes paid for?

>> Yes. >> What are the states? One is one your your wintering home and one is your summering home?

>> Yes. Okay, Mary, America is about to get

mad at you. You are truly living the dream, Mary. This is We're having a little bit of fun, but in all honesty, you're in great shape. You have two paid for homes. >> Uhhuh. >> You have two paid for cars.

>> What are these expenses that you said you have that are so so high that 3

million as it continues to grow is not going to be enough for you? What are we missing?

Well, um I don't know. It's about 45,000

a year the expenses for insurance and that's without any emergencies.

>> So insuranceances on all your assets.

>> I don't get I don't get any a pension,

>> right? >> But my guess is you're going to have a pretty nice social security benefit is my guess. >> And you'll draw from your account.

>> 40 4400.

>> Sweetheart, how much does it take for you to live every month? cuz I know you know the answer to this, Mary. What is your topline expense for everything? All

in food, gas, clothing, everything.

>> Well, it's about um I don't know.

>> Oh, come on. >> You don't have a mortgage.

>> It's just you. You're not married, right? >> What do you need to live?

>> Take an educated guess of what you need every month to live comfortably. How much money? >> Probably about 4,000.

>> 4,000. Okay. You're going to have a social security payment of $4,400.

So, we've got that and then you've got $3 million that is continuing to grow.

>> Jade, I I don't think I'm getting through to Mary. She's in great shape.

>> You're in great shape. There's there, in the words of Ken Coleman, this is this is a nothing burger. >> This is a nothing burger. Yes. There's >> nothing there. >> This has got ketchup, mustard, pickle, lettuce, the whole it's the works. You are great, Mary. >> Great job. Do you know how many people uh how many people who are in their 20s

wish they had a job that paid them $100,000? >> That would chew their right leg off on camera to have your portfolio.

>> Yeah, you're doing so well.

>> But I'm going to I'm going to lose that, you know, when I retire. >> That's fine. Yeah, you're going to >> What are you losing?

>> You will lose the job.

>> No, no, no, you won't. You won't. You will lose the job because you will choose, hey, I don't want to work anymore. Then you can look over to any of these retirement accounts and say, "I'd like to make $100,000 a year, please." And they're going to go, "Okay, you can afford that." >> And by the way, you've got that.

You can pull >> How long would that actually last your whole life >> because you're not touching Let's Okay, let's teach for a minute because I want to make sure you understand this.

sounds like you do, you should be making on average annualized rate of return,

you should be somewhere around the 9 10% mark. Okay? That is when you take all the years that you've had it invested and average those rates of return, it should be around 10%. Okay? So, that means let's just take a round number like, I don't know, $1 million. If you've been making 10% on that, what is

10%? $100,000.

Does that make sense? So, you should be able to live off the interest alone without touching the nest egg. Does that make sense? If it doesn't, I'll explain it another way. >> Well, let's let's use real numbers. You've got a total of you've got over $3 million in retirement accounts. That's what you told us, >> right? And I do have some CDs and cash.

I'm sure you do. >> Oh, listen. None of this is a surprise. I think you got more money buried in your backyard than most people make in a year. I think there's probably that level. >> Sometimes they do. Sometimes I do bury it in the backyard. >> I know you do. The point, Mary, is all

these things. >> If you really lived off of 10%, you could take a a $300,000, you know, salary. Well, that's exactly right. >> There's we you we would account for inflation and we would account for, you know, I don't know if this is in Roth or what it's in. So, there are some things to consider here, but none of it none of those details are going to drain your

nest eggs. None of those details are going to cause you to be even close to broke. Okay? I I would go on I would

stand on business today and say, "If you retired today and took your same salary, you would be fine." Now, if you don't believe me, that's okay. I would encourage you to get with a Smart Vtor and let them show you this. >> But here's what we haven't discussed yet, Mary. Okay? Yeah.

>> The three million you have right now, just the three million. You got more than three million, but at this point we're there's no need to get into >> closer to four. >> Yeah. Oh, sure. Of course. Let's just say three for a moment. Okay. Based on what Jade told you earlier with the historical return of the stock market that Jade laid out, you realize that you're a a young and vibrant 71. Seven

years from now at 78, Jade, you want to tell her what that 3 million is going to be worth? >> Yeah. So we call it like a rule of seven. A lump sum generally at a rate at the right rate of return will double every seven years. >> So that means you're with you got six million. >> Yeah. >> And the truth is you got four. So let's just have some fun, Mary.

>> So 8 million >> $8 million at 78. I mean this is like

this is like you and your fried green tomatoes annual trip. We're blowing it in Barbados. We're having a blast.

>> Like you are way ahead of the game. You

should be what you should have done was called Ken and I to invite us to your retirement celebration. >> I will MC it and Jade will sing. Yeah, it's a it's a combo. It's a great com and all we asked for is uh fourstar accommodations and travel expenses.

It's all we asked for. >> That's right. That's right. >> No, Mary, we're having fun.

>> The market hasn't been that great though. What that it's going to double in seven years? >> No, Mary, this is this you can actually go you can Google this one. >> Yeah, this is real mom.

You can really Google this.

This is the historical uh path of the stock market over its entire inception.

>> Okay. Uh this is a rate of return that you can expect. But even if you didn't get the 9 to 10% that Jade, all right, let's go conservative. >> Yeah. >> Let's go 6%. Run your numbers on 6%. And

here's what we really want you to do. Do you have somebody that manages your money? A licensed professional?

>> No, I do it on my own. Oh my gosh, Mary,

you are such a rock star. I mean, >> the superlatives, I can't summon enough.

Okay, here's what I want you to do. >> I don't want to get on Mary's bad side.

>> We're going to put you on hold. And Kelly is amazing. And Kelly, let's make sure she gets to the Smart Investor Pro section of our website at ramseyolutions.com.

And and I want you Kelly will walk you through this, but I want you to interview three or four or five in your area. And Mary, I know you got a gut.

>> And go with your gut on the one you trust the most. and help. Let them tell you what they think your portfolio is going to turn into and where you are. And then if you choose to have them work with you, great. But trust me, these folks are affiliated with us in the sense that uh they believe what we believe and they'll back what Jay and I are saying up and show you real numbers.

So, thank you for calling, Mary. And can we just >> slow the whole audience is clapping for Mary. This is what we do. This is why we do it. Mary, you're the poster child.

You're a You won.

[Music]

[Music]

This is the Ramsay Show, where America hangs out to talk about their money, their work, and their relationships. And we're so glad you've joined us. I'm Ken Coleman. The incomparably fabulous Jade

Warshaw joins me. The phone number is88255225.

Mike is up in Illinois. Mike, how can we help today?

>> Hi, good morning. Uh, so just had a question for you guys on we are new to

you guys' program and I'm talking really new like maybe three, four, four days.

>> Welcome aboard, sir.

>> Yeah, we don't we don't really have a lot. And I'm not even gonna say like this is even overwhelming for us because it's it's truly not.

>> Um we're in a pretty good spot I feel.

>> Um we're we're about 150 a year um between the two of us and we we got

about 45,000 in our cars, 57,000 on our

house. We got really lucky on our house.

So >> yeah, so we're good. Um we do have some credit card about um between 7 and 10 and we got some medical about four. Um

but we did some home improvement. Um and

we took out borrowed against oursel. We took the advice of uh somebody else.

>> Um and borrowed against our 401k.

>> Um so we have payments

>> uh about 25,000.

>> You're going to love the tax on that, pal. >> Yeah, I know. >> That's going to feel great.

>> We do have it paid down um to maybe

20ish, I'm guessing.

So, we're we're just at a 401k loan, so

we're paying that back. But my question was is because we want to attack we want to tackle all this pretty aggressive, you know, following the program. Um,

should we take the hit on the 401k,

get rid of that big monthly that we have there, and then apply that $1,000 a

month towards um

>> paying everything else off more aggressive >> and then put the money back and then then put the money back quickly. You know what I mean? Um it just seems like we the way we've been kind of running the numbers is if we if we were to take away from use that money from the 401k the monthly part of it we would be able to go really aggressive >> and really pay this down because we're super excited to get towards the finan the the investing part.

>> Are you familiar with our debt snowball?

I know you're three or four days in so that's why I'm asking. Are you familiar with the debt snowball?

>> Yeah. you know, and I think so familiar with the Ramsay name, just didn't really know how >> that's fine. >> So, Jade, let Jade let Jade coach you through what exactly we would do if we were in your shoes. >> Yeah. I'm going to simplify this for you because uh I'm going to go back and kind

of assess. Can I can I just take a moment and go back and assess >> do another diagnostic? >> Yeah. Because then then it will help us be in the right mindset to talk about the solution. The problem is, you know, you make a really great income, you and your wife combined. And the sad part about this is you didn't realize it. And

so you let people trick you into thinking you needed to use debt to do all of the things that honestly you could have done with your income cuz it's so great. And the fact that your mortgage is only $57,000.

And so I kind of want you to get your head around the fact that your income and your money is real money and it's better than borrowed money. And somewhere in your brain, you started thinking that borrowed money was better than your actual money. And I really want you to spend some time thinking about that because I never want you to be here again. Um, and

>> just uh not to interrupt you there real quick, but the only thing that kind of put that put us in that is I I guess I didn't say in the beginning is um I went through a divorce um 10 years ago. So I I did have child support that was pretty a lot of child support, which is pretty substantial. Not complaining about it.

You know what I mean? My kids. Uh >> um but that that did play a huge part in

us um you know financially.

>> Sure it played a huge part but it didn't make you take out debt. You still chose to do that. So >> 100%. You're right. >> I just want you to go forward from today going you know what like my dollars are better than borrowed dollars. And yeah, to Ken's point, let's let's walk this thing out because if you have something like a 401k uh loan, if you owe money to

the IRS, that business is jumping to the top of the list. So, typically what we would tell people to do is list your debt smallest to largest. But there are a couple of exceptions and like I said owing money to the federal government is one of them and having something like a heliloc is or I'm sorry having something like a 401k loan is one of them because the implications around that are very very big. And so for this for this I

would say to you like you got to understand every minute that you don't pay this back is a interest that you're missing out on. every moment that you don't pay this back means if something happens and your job is on the line, it's going to become paid due in full 12 months after you, you know, were let go. So, there's a lot here uh around that. So, I would I

would get in full gear on this and start getting it knocked out. Now, the good news is you've got 150K of income, but are you guys on a budget?

>> Yeah. So, um we kind of use a calendar

system. We kind of write everything out on due dates and everything on our calendar. >> Good. Uh my wife's she's she's pretty on top of it. So we we do know exactly

what's due when, where, and we pay weeks

ahead. >> Good. And >> so how much are you guys putting extra on debt every single month?

>> Um not a whole lot.

>> Why?

>> You have you don't have hardly a mortgage and you make this great income.

>> What are those cars? >> Yeah, I wonder what those two car payments. >> Yeah, I think the the car payments are pretty high. Um, uh, we got one that's 600 and some changeish and then another one that's four four something, I believe.

>> Listen, it's not as bad as it's not as bad as it could be. That's not what's taking your income. What's taking your income is you guys aren't you're not on a budget. You're still spending a lot of money in a lot of areas. It's not the 4,000 of medical debt. It's not the cuz I can guess what the 10,000 of credit cards payment is. It's you guys are

living like 150,000 is the be all end

all. And I think that's what it is. And I'm sure you're still contributing to retirement. Am I am I right?

>> Oh yeah, 100%. Yeah, we're doing uh >> I'm doing the match and then I'm I'm doing just the match right now and then my wife's my wife's doing 10%.

>> So let let Ken and I give you a rundown because you did say you're brand new to the baby steps. So let's just dial it in. And from here you're going to get to choose. Do you want to do it?

Do you want to not do it? And that's your choice to make with you and your wife later. So, what we would say is baby step one when you're in your situation, baby step one is, hey, I just I need to go down to $1,000 saved. If I can just keep $1,000 aside, that's my, you know, quick rainy day fund.

But every other money needs to go to baby step two, which is paying off all the debt. And I told you before, it's list from smallest to largest with the two exceptions. And then we're there.

investing right now. I'm not uh putting too much uh into my withholding right now. I'm putting just enough because I don't want that tax refund. I want that money in my pocket every month. So those are quick ways to make sure we have all the money. And a lot of people don't like when we say pause investing, Ken, because they feel like they're missing out on time. And they are missing out on time. But the thought process of that is

if I have Ken, if I have a bucket of if I have a picture of water here and I have I don't know, you have one, two, three, four, uh, four or five different glasses of debt. If I put a drop in each one, it's going to take me forever to fill up those glasses. But if I just take all the income in my picture and pour it on one, I'm going to fill up that glass very quickly and it's going to be gone. Okay?

So that's why this works that way, Casey. And then we can go on to steps three and four and on down the list later, but right now one and two is big. And something tells me he might have some savings somewhere that he needs to tap into. >> And I'd even We're running out of time, but I I would tell you that uh look at those cars.

Let's see if we can get that $1,000 as well. So that's what we're doing here.

Thanks for listening.

[Music]

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[Music]

[Music]

>> All right, Casey is joining us now in Wyoming. Casey, how can we help?

>> Hey, thanks for taking my call. Um, I'm

trying to get some input or advice on I

started building my building a home on a

property that I own and um I'm getting

to the point where it's getting difficult to continue cash flowing it.

And I'm debating on uh just continuing

down that path of cash flowing it or if I should take out a construction loan for uh what I need to do to >> How much more do you need to finish?

>> Um probably $100,000 to to finish out

where I'm at. >> So 100 grand is what you need to either cash flow, which is going to take you longer, or your idea of a construction loan gets it to you and you can finish this house by what time?

If I took the loan out, I could probably finish it, I would think, next spring. I mean, we're heading into where I'm I'm doing all this all the work myself physically. So, >> and so if you cash flow it, how long will it estimate to take?

>> Um, so probably probably another two

years. And that that's kind of where the >> Okay. And is this >> where the difficulty is? >> I get it. And I'm digging a little bit here to get full perspective. So, is this your dream home and you guys are already in a home that you can easily afford? What I'm trying to figure out here is is there financial pressure to finish this house? Like, what is the status of this house?

>> So, I I bought the acreage. It's a it's

40 acres, and I bought the acorage 4 and

1/2 years ago um with the plan of just

moving out there and building the house over a couple of year period. And then some things in life changed and um most

of the money that I had saved up for the project uh went away. So, >> okay. So, the plan was to live out there on the 40 acres in some type of a temporary situation.

>> Right. And that and that's where I am now. I'm in an old it's an old single wide trailer on the property. So, I'm building I'm building, you know, right next door to where I'm at. Okay. But it's it's just me and my my two kids and

uh on that that little trailer. So yeah,

it's just getting to the point where a couple I've been doing it for three years and a couple more years.

>> So So essentially the only So this would be like taking out a mortgage of 100 grand is what I'm hearing. >> Mhm. >> Right. Plus I I do owe some on the land itself. I didn't buy the land outright.

>> What do you owe on the land? >> I I I owe 130 on the land. Okay. So, if

you were So, if I'm in your shoes, I'm going to I'm assuming you know the numbers, but what do we what's our what will be our combined I'm going to call this a combined house payment. That's what I'm looking at here because the land and the home.

>> What would be that combined mortgage payment? >> Well, it it'd be a a 15-year um rate on

250,000 give or take. Right. >> And can you afford that at 25% of your take-home pay?

Yeah, I don't I don't think the payment is is that big a deal.

No. Is it underneath our 25% threshold?

So 25% of >> right right at >> Okay. >> Then then I don't have an issue with this because it's like a it's like buying a home and I don't think living in this trailer with the two kids is sustainable for much longer. So yeah,

this is not what we would consider an irresponsible home purchase. That's essentially you're doing it a different way, but it's the same idea.

>> Am I right, Jay? I want to make sure I'm here. >> Yeah, right on. >> I guess there's Well, because I am not a

contractor, I can't qualify for I would need to hire a general contractor and get somebody else involved in my business to they won't loan. And it

makes sense. They're not going to loan somebody that's just building a house. I

totally know what he's saying. So, you bring a general contractor.

>> What's your problem with that?

>> You don't want a general contractor. Is that the biggest problem? You want to do this all your own? Is that the biggest thing? >> I mean, that's a big thing. And and also, I mean, there's I guess there's a pride component of it where I had a plan to cash flow building >> I had a plan to dunk a basketball in a game when I was in high school and it turns out I 5'9 and couldn't jump.

>> So, I had to deal with it and become a pass first point guard. Life throws you things. No, I'm just being honest here.

Follow the pride. I don't care that you want to finish it yourself. >> Well, I do because here's the thing. I do because >> there's there's that >> because the the financial side of it, there's not a wrong answer. If you want to cash flow, cash flow. If you want to get the mortgage, get the mortgage. There's not a wrong one. Cash is better.

But for a time, we would have said, "Yeah, go ahead and get the mortgage." But then you turned around and said, "Well, here's the thing. I want to build this thing. I don't want to hire a general contractor." So, now we're talking about other things. We're talking about values.

And so if you say to me, you have to then decide what's it worth to me to have the timeline. Do I want to sacrifice timeline to have the values I want or do I want the values at the sake of the timeline?

>> I hate my kids and hate my life all to keep my pride intact.

>> I mean, >> that's the thing is the kids don't really get a vote in it. They're >> I'm not talking about the kids say they'd rather have the new house. He's talking about do you hate the kids?

>> I'm talking about you, brother. You're the one that's on the phone and you're the one that talked about everybody heard it on your voice. I don't I'm with you 100%. The kids don't get a vote at all. I don't care what your kids think. I'm with you on that. But I think you're the one going I don't think I can stay in this trailer with these kids. How old are they? Am I right or am I wrong?

>> The the kids are six and eight. So, >> you didn't answer young. They're not they're not going to know if it's too

old. They're not really All right, let me let me come at this a trailer. Can you live with these kids in this trailer for two more years?

>> Well, you can do anything. I mean, my >> That's what I said. You just >> kids in a little two-bedroom house. >> That's what I'm saying.

You have to decide. Only you can decide cuz Ken will say, "Hey, and my if it were Ken Coleman, he would say, I'm taking the loan." >> Well, if it were me, I'd never even be in a trailer on 40 acres. I don't like to sleep on anything less than 700 thread count. I, you know, I'm not an outdoorsy sleep guy.

All right? you know, I'll be outdoors and then we take a shower and we stay in a nice room. But I I here's what I'm getting at. This is up to you.

I just walked you into it and you went, "Well, I can I can do anything for two years." Well, then there's your answer. Yeah. I think you just want to cash if to Jade's point, your pride is like in building this thing yourself and it's really important to you, I'm not going to poo poo that. I said swallow it and get the house done.

But that's when I thought you were angst about staying in this trailer. If you're going, I can stay in the trailer. I can do anything, Ken, for two years. Then I think that's your answer.

So you build it yourself >> and then you and then you take two years and the kids are six and eight.

You know, I do whatever you want. It's your 40 acres. I was trying to like say, >> yeah, I hear you. >> It's okay for you to take out a loan, but this is before you threw the it's important to me to build it myself.

Again, something I can't even process. I

can barely put gas in my car. >> Do you have tools? >> Do you have any tools? >> I do, but it's limited to the socket wrenches. The I got a cool little set of those L wrenches. And >> wait, no, that's the stuff that comes >> I do have a uh I got one of those little battery powered uh drills that has a

Phillips head and then a a normal, >> but I hire other people.

>> It's called a flathead. >> What is it? >> Flathead. >> See, >> that's all I know. I'm just making that up. That's all I know. I don't know.

>> I'm gonna say hire a contractor.

>> Yes. >> Because I got nightmares in my mind of you building this house and >> but you know, look, man, you're you're a man. You live in Wyoming on 48 acres.

This is something this is a different paradigm for me. I go to Wyoming in a postcard. >> Yes. I go, "Oh, that's that's that's nice." >> I go to Wyoming when I watch What was that Kevin Cosner show? I don't know.

>> What was the show that was big? >> A show. >> Remember the >> Oh, Yellowstone. >> Yeah, that's the only time I go.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I love that. But see, I'm in my I'm in my living room with a nice uh blanket, >> you know, hot cup of tea.

>> Kevin Cosner's roughing it. He's cold.

>> And you're like, "Oo, look at him." >> I'm like, "It will never be me." >> I get a little shiver and I tell Stacey to turn the heat up.

One of my favorite things about you is when you told me about your your robe and how comfortable your robe was.

>> My robe is next level.

>> It goes all the way to the ankles.

Restoration hardware. Super plush. Uh

it's great, folks. It's like it's like wearing a Snuggy, but you have freedom.

>> Yeah. And >> I can move my arms and legs and

>> Yes. It's a great robe. I think every woman should buy my robe for their man

in their life. restoration hardware. >> Robes over tools. Robes over tools.

>> Which one are you going to use more?

>> It's pretty easy. I'm using my robe 365.

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Esther joins us now in South Carolina.

Esther, how can we help?

>> Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Um, I'm just trying to um figure out a game

plan. Um, I'm thinking about leaving my

husband. I don't work. Um, we have two kids. Um, and being a single mom, um, is

potentially in the future for me. I'm just trying to figure out how meant to navigate this.

>> Okay. >> Okay. Um, you're not working. You're

thinking of leaving your husband. Tell us more about that part. Is there danger?

>> Um, I wouldn't say there's imminent danger. We've had um a domestic violence issue before. Um it's when I was pregnant with my first. >> Um my first is going to be two. Um in a

couple of weeks and I literally just had a newborn on Saturday.

>> On Saturday.

>> On Saturday. Yeah. >> Oh my gosh. Okay.

>> And um I moved from the UK about 3 years ago.

>> We've been married for about four years.

Um and I've only worked like short stretches of time. Um, since being here,

um, I'm in the medical field. I'm a medical professional, but >> just with having the babies and the, um, exams, I haven't had like the time to just physically just do my exams to be a

pharmacist over here. So, I haven't been >> Oh, got it. >> Working. >> How much time and how much money would it take to get those exams done and essentially become qualified or current?

Um there's one exam that happens um

every October over here. Um maybe about 3,000. I've literally only got about 700

in savings. Um but I just don't

I my my dad was abusive. It's something I work on for sure, but I I don't know whether to call this abusive just because um I I'm sorry. Just because I'm not getting um beat down 24/7, but

>> of course. Hey, >> I need to I need to figure out something. >> Okay, first off, yeah, you're right. Um,

domestic violence doesn't mean you're getting beat down 24/7. It can be

>> It doesn't have to be to that extreme um to be domestic violence.

>> Okay. Um, I want to know what's going on

because when I asked you earlier, you said not imminent, but then you went on to say that um, you know, when you were

pregnant, there was an incident, which to me is is is pretty crazy. But I just

want to validate to you that any behavior that is in they're attempting to intimidate you. They're attempting attempting to isolate you, frighten you, terrorize you, threaten you, um hurt you, w like any of that, even if it's just a threat, okay, that's not normal and you shouldn't be in that in uh >> Yeah. >> environment, especially with babies. But even without, you shouldn't you you don't tolerate that more than once.

>> Do you have anywhere you can go before like let's forget about the legal separation or divorce piece. Let's just say if if you're going to take some of these steps before we talk about the finance stuff, do you have friends, family uh in the area that that you

could uh flee to and and be safe with?

>> I mean, I've got the only family I've got are the in-laws. Um it can be a bit difficult because of the first incident.

>> Well, yeah. >> I don't know whether it's a cultural thing. I got a lot of the blame for it.

>> Yeah, you can't. >> No, no, they don't. No, I can just tell you right now, they're not part of it.

So the answer is you don't have anybody.

>> What about a church? Have you gone to church? Have you visited any churches in the area? >> I've got a church. Um again they were they were aware of the first situation.

>> That's fine. >> Um they were a bit hit and miss. So I haven't after the first situation happened. I just kind of kept myself to myself and kind of you know >> Yeah.

Sure. >> been been safe in the way I've reacted to things so I don't get myself into a predicament. Um but um >> yeah, but I don't like that you're feeling like you're the one getting yourself into the predicament. It's not you, it's him.

And I want you to when you get off this call, a I want you to call the hotline for domestic violence and domestic abuse. I I think you need to call and talk to someone because I understand if you don't want to share with us what's exactly going on, but you need to share with someone that's going to be able to advise you.

>> he sounds volatile to me >> and it sounds like you can't. Is that right? >> Yes. Okay. Yes, he definitely is.

>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. And you you're not in any

position to be able You never were, but

now with a a newborn on Saturday, you can't defend yourself from this person.

and they clearly don't care if you were pregnant, if you have a newborn on your hip, so you have to go someplace else.

And I hate that for you because you're supposed to be able to have a newborn and come home to a safe environment.

>> And I'm so sorry that >> that's not the case.

>> Okay, >> I'm so sorry. Here's the thing. You get you you call the number, >> you find a shelter, >> and then you get to a safe place. Then your brain can kind of open up a little bit because you're safe. Yeah.

>> Um, we're going to make sure to put you in contact with a financial coach and we're going to make sure that they talk with you, help you figure out what's next. >> Um, >> do you have Yeah. And speaking of what's next, I do want to try to give you, and Jade's right, getting you safe and allowing your brain to slow down and function to its best is is huge. But you

did call and say, "How do I financially prepare for this?" And um

>> if I had if I were in your shoes,

I would be asking friends or family in the UK. That's where your base has been.

>> Yeah. >> And I personally would have zero pride issues with asking for $3,000. Mhm.

>> Because if $3,000 was what I needed to

become a pharmacist in the United States where you can make really good money, have fabulous benefits for those littles, >> I would be I'd have no problem asking for $3,000. And I wouldn't say borrow. I didn't I didn't say borrow. >> I need to have it.

>> I We don't ask. We don't borrow.

>> If you could find, you know, can you >> do you have people in the UK, real friends? >> Okay. All of my family.

>> Okay. >> Well, I believe we could scrape $3,000 together out of family who love you and for the sole purpose. Okay. in the situation when it's right >> uh to to finish out this qualification, get a current on your on your stuff. And that's not too much to ask. And don't borrow it.

This is you're going to ask people, I need you to help me. I have a very

specific need. By the way, a really good church would step up in that situation as well. >> It would. >> And and and so because this gives you freedom. I'm just wondering if you don't

I mean I think what Ken said is a great place to start. I'm just going to tag on to that list. Is it better for you to go back to the UK temporarily to be around?

>> Can you take the kids to the UK or is there some type I I I this is outside of my legal knowledge. >> That's true. That's true. It doesn't want to. That's a good point.

>> So I'm a little nervous with that. U >> Yeah, that's a good point.

>> You know what I mean? Now it makes complete common sense.

>> Yeah. I just don't know legally.

>> No, you're right. You're right. >> I think that's a dangerous situation. I would not do that. >> Okay. Yeah. Bad plan. >> Given that she's not a US citizen, >> so you don't want to complicate things.

But I I think um safe first.

>> Okay. Safe.

>> Uh then we work on stability,

whatever that looks like short term. That means if you're working at a Walmart, you know, and there's an old lady in the church who willing to wash the kids. I mean, because you got a challenge with child care, which is very expensive. So, we got to get safe. We got to get stable.

But I am trying to encourage you that

you becoming a pharmacist as quickly as

you can. >> That's going to set you free >> and in getting hired is going to be a game changer. You can, mama, you can take care of those babies on a pharmacist salary >> and you and you'll be fine.

>> Just promise us you'll leave that environment. Promise us you won't go to the in-laws cuz they're not for you.

>> That's right. >> And he's there.

>> Yeah. >> Right. And just call us anytime, Esther.

Truly, >> anytime. Don't Don't lose contact with us because we want to follow you. >> Hang on the line. Kelly's amazing. She's going to get you plugged in where we can plug you in. So, hang on.

[Music]

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>> Okay. Today's question comes from Sydney in Colorado. She says, "My husband and I

are relatively new to the baby steps, and I wonder if it's normal to find it hard to transition from using credit cards and thinking you have all this extra money to not using credit cards and realizing you don't have as much money as you thought you had left over every month. If it is normal, does that feeling quickly go away or am I just going to be uncomfortable for the next few years?" Oh my gosh, what a great question, Ken. >> Actually, really good. You know, I think that Sydney, what you're feeling is completely normal because the truth is, >> yeah, when you're on a credit card, it is a safety blanket, right?

crutch. And what happens when you have a crutch, Ken? You know this. If you if you wear >> lean on it, >> you lean on it. If you wear a cast for too long, if you sit in a chair for too long, the muscles, they atrophy. You know what I'm saying? And before you know it, doing things that should be normal range of motion, normal things become more difficult because you have atrophied that muscle. So, it's the same thing with your money. It is a skill and

a uh a learned skill to be able to

manage your money, the actual money that comes home in your check. And when you lean on credit cards, you can be willy-nilly, right? You don't have to be as on it. you know that if you break the budget it's okay because I've got this extra you know the limit is here and I can go beyond and there's no real guard rails there. So I think what's happening is for the first time you're like, "Oh, >> I have boundaries." >> Yeah. >> I have limits and I must depend on my

financial, you know, fortitude and my own kind of willpower to stay within those boundaries. And yeah, that's a skill to learn over time. And I think that you're on the right track. And it could take a while.

You know, we do say that when people build a budget can, you know, what is it 90 days before they feel like >> I got it. I can stick to this. I can start to live like this. And you know, for you, I don't know how far out of bounds you guys were going, but >> yeah, it's a lifestyle change.

>> That's right. And and I would I would just give you give yourself grace because everybody's different.

>> As to their discipline. I know some people that they they get this Ramsay plan. They're like, "Oh, >> got it." Yeah. >> And they're just such system discipline people that it's just like, "Okay, I'm in lock step." And then there's other people that it takes a while. And I here's what I would tell you that once you finally get over using credit cards,

what I found to be true for us years and

years ago, we finally cut ours up and that whole deal. And >> um it's kind of like when you give up something uh food-wise.

>> Oh yeah. >> And what happens is your appetite changes. >> Good one. >> And I think credit cards are much like food or beverages. And I'm going to give you a specific example in my life. Years and years ago, uh, I was a sweet tea

animal. I mean, I drank a lot of sweet

tea. I thought it was a right of passage because I was born and raised in the south, you know? It was kind of like water and sweet tea. And I kept looking for sweet tea in the Bible. I couldn't find it anymore. >> Oh man. No, it ain't there. >> That's how much I love sweet tea. And um

and I cut it out as a part of a massive

physical goal.

>> And and this is this is this is the only thing I can describe in my life that that means this where your appetite changes. And so I was very disciplined for at least a year, Jade, to not have sweet tea. And and then a year turned

into two years and I just I just had all these other options. And I remember one day I was at some thing in the summer and somebody had a gallon of Chick-fil-A

iced tea sitting on that picnic table

and it was just going

and and you know what I did? >> Yeah. What you do? >> I poured a little bit over some ice >> and I took a drink >> and I promise you this is the truth.

>> It was disgusting.

>> I believe you. >> And here's what I learned. I talked to a nutrition nutritionist about it like weeks later and I told that story and she said, "Yeah, your appetite changed." >> Yeah, it's real. >> And so I think as long I know that was a

long-winded metaphor, but I can't help it. I'm a preacher boy. Okay. I I think

that once you get off of credit cards and you really truly follow the Ramsy plan, Excuse me.

>> And you really I'm getting choked up emotionally. >> Are you crying? Listen, I was ready to step in for you. I'm >> verted. Yeah. I uh I just believed like

the sweet tea that the idea of a credit

card when it pops back up on the picnic table >> that you'll go >> nah >> I don't want what comes with that and for me it was just it was too sugary.

>> Yeah. >> And and but what had changed was my appetite. It wasn't discipline in the moment. >> Well, >> it was my appetite change. So I I I hope

that helps. And I think that's for a lot of people to go, "Okay, man. I don't know if I can really get myself away from these credit cards with." But I'm telling you, when you change your lifestyle and you change your habits, your appetite changes with it. And that's game changer stuff. So, I I hope that helps. >> If I had an organ, I'd have played the organ behind you, but I didn't.

>> Don't get me started. I'll take an offering. I mean, we'll do an altar call. I mean, let's go, man. I I'll give you three points and an offering here quick. No, I I hope that encourages people and it's same way with debt. All right, let's get to Kyle who's joining us now in Charleston, South Carolina.

Kyle, how can we help today?

>> Hey Jaden, Ken, how are you? Thanks for taking my call. >> Sure. >> Uh, so I I just finished Baby Step three. Um, >> congrats.

>> Thank you. Sent the last couple years getting out of about $80,000 worth of debt and I just finished my emergency fund. >> Way to go. >> At this point, thank you. Um, at this point I have I have no savings outside of my emergency fund and I'm looking to start budgeting for the first time.

>> Um, >> so you did all that without a budget?

>> How did that happen?

>> It was everything that was not living expenses was going going onto the debt.

So basically insane disappointment.

>> Yeah. You just went hard in the paint. Good for you. Good for you. Okay. So we're making a budget, >> right? And I I appreciate the structure of the baby steps. I think that helped me out a lot um while going through the process. And I wanted to see if you guys have any similar rules or best practices

that um I'm able to stick to as like a

first time budget or making budget for the first time. >> Great question. I love this. All right, Jade. So, here we go. The guy's got his fully funded emergency fund.

>> Yeah. So, first off, yeah, I would recommend the same budget that I use, the same budget Ken uses. It's called Every Dollar. We both really like it.

Everybody around here seems to love it.

It's great. And so once you have that budget at the top of it, you're just going to put in your income, right?

Which what is your income every month?

>> Uh it's about 100. >> Okay. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Uh annually.

>> Annually. Okay. So, you're going to plug in your money. You know, I don't know what it is after taxes. I whatever that is. So, $8,000 right there at the top.

Then you're going to plug in all of your expenses. Now, when you're doing the budget, you're going to keep in mind what your next goal is, right? And for you, the goal is I need to be investing 15% of my income. So let's say, let's

just pretend you start the budget just to see the money you have. Let's pretend you start the money the the budget without accounting for that. Just to see, okay, here's the margin I actually have with the life that I actually live.

Then you're going to say, well, wait a minute. I do need to budget for this 15%. What will it look like when I pull this money away? Because that's going to go into retirement. and now am I able to budget less that 15%. And so that's kind

of the exercise that you need because that is the drum that you're going to be beating from now until the time that you retire. You're going to be investing 15% of your income. Then from there it's like, okay, what are the other things that I want to do with my margin? Um, do

I want to put savings anywhere else? Am I thinking of buying a a house? Am I thinking of buying a, you know, saving up a down payment? And by the way, is that part of your goals?

>> Yes, it is. >> Okay. So, those are the two things that are going to be driving uh the driving forces behind your budget right now.

Does that make sense?

>> Yes, ma'am. >> All righty. All right. Kelly's going to pick up. Kelly, you know what to do.

>> Oh, the assist to Kelly. You got to love it. >> Yeah. >> You know, uh this is exciting. I just want to say yay, yay, yay, Kyle. I mean,

the fact that you went so hard and fast to get to baby step three and you're like, I don't even know how to budget. I mean, that again, I applaud that and I love that you're now leaning in. You're on your way to wealth, young man. And that is exciting.

[Music]

[Music]

Welcome back to the Ramsay Show alongside Jade Warshaw and Ken Coleman.

Let's get right to Josh here in Fort

Worth, Texas. Josh, how can we help?

>> Hey guys, uh thanks for taking my call this afternoon. Um, I have a question

about buying my son a a vehicle. A

little bit of background. Uh, his mom and I have have been uh split up for about 8 years now. He's 17 and uh

recently got his license and I've been trying to to talk with her about getting him a car for about the last year now.

and uh she doesn't want to to participate financially um because his his grandparents on her side are um willing to let him

use a car that uh that they have. It's

still titled in their name. It's insured on their policy and they added him to to their insurance. And >> cool. >> I don't think it's the right kind of car. It's it's kind of a sporty, you know, sedan that uh an inexperienced 17-year-old probably shouldn't be driving. >> What is it? Tell us more. For real.

>> Uh, it's it it's an Acura. Um, it's an

Acura TL. Um, it's I think it's about 15

years old, but it's, you know, 300 horsepower and he got his license like two weeks ago. >> You think that he's going to drag race in this? What What is the concern?

>> No, but he's he's he's pretty impulsive kid. Um, >> quite ready for him to get his license.

>> I'm looking online at an Acura TL that's 15 years old. That is not a impulsive.

>> I am not seeing any unless I'm missing something. >> All right. By a little get up and go.

>> It's a 15year-old Acura. Nobody thinks of that car as irresponsible for a kid.

In fact, an Acura is a fabulous car. A

15-year-old Acura.

>> What do you want to buy him? Let's Let's run this whole risky thing. I'm dying to know. What do you want to buy him? Um, I'm looking more like Honda Civic. Yeah,

>> you realize Honda Honda makes Acura, but

that's the one folks trick out and race is the Honda Civ. That's like what they do. >> It's like pure stock. Like it doesn't matterless wonder.

>> I Wait a sec.

>> Okay, here's the deal. You Well, okay, I'll get out of your way, Jay, because I think you're revving up and I like when you get revved up. I if I'm in your situation, I wouldn't spend my money on buying this kid a car.

The the grandparents the other side are doing you a solid, man. Take a Don't look a gift horse in the mouth is the old phrase. >> Or at least try it out first. At the very least, let him try with the Acura.

>> And if he if he races it, then get him a

Civic to race. >> But that's his problem. But the fact that you don't want your 17-year-old, you don't think he's ready for a license is also an issue. That's, you know, I mean, is any 16-year-old ready? I mean, I know when >> two of my three, and I'm getting ready to have a third one driving, y'all pray for me. I'd like to keep my hair. Uh, but I remember when the first two started driving, Jade, I was absolutely mortified, terrified. I'm letting them drive a vehicle.

>> It didn't matter if it was an Acura or a a Yugo. If you people from the 80s remember that car? It's basically a lawn mower. You know, it doesn't matter. You

know, it's it the very concept of driving a car is dangerous. So, his impulses and all that, that's a bigger issue. You getting him a Civic versus them giving him an Acura is, and I'm

just telling you as objectively as I can, you called us, you're worried about

the wrong things. And I would take the gift. >> I would too. I listen, I second that. I

100 I thought you were going to say they're giving him a brand new 2025

Lamborghini. Like I was expecting something like that. >> Even I take that. I just ride with the kid. But hey, that's me, you know.

>> Yeah, I I think that you have a gift here. And don't block the blessing.

>> Well said, Josh. We've spoken. That's the gavvel right there.

>> You're going to do what you're going to do. I got a feeling. Do you remember when I was in high school the car to have like if you had this car? It was like >> Oh, I'm very excited. I'm a little older than you, so I'm anxious to see what this is. >> Well, and I also grew up in like a like a country town. If you had a Trans Am >> Oh, >> like that was the business.

>> It was speed. Speed on wheels.

>> Oh, man. >> And but and it was funny about a Trans Am, it's honestly a piece of crap.

>> Yeah. >> But it it looked fast.

>> It looked so cool. It had the like the bird on the on the Oh gosh. Oh, the bird >> that had the bird on the >> I know that's from uh what's the uh Smokey and the Bandit. Yeah, Bert Reynolds. Come on, man. Now I'm dating myself. There's like there's like a whole demographic that's like, did he just say Smokeoky and the Who?

>> Listen, I'm going to act like I don't know what you're talking about. >> You do know >> cuz you're the real deal. Uh Dan is joining us now in Alabama. Dan, how can we help?

>> Hey, uh Ken and Jay. Um I'm a new

listener. Uh, >> welcome aboard, sir.

>> Well, thank you. Uh, my wife and I of

almost 40 years are searching for peace.

Uh, we're sick and tired of being sick and tired. >> Good. >> Um, we uh sold our family small business of

20 years back in 2021. Uh, the buyer

made it 18 months and bankrupted it.

>> Oh, no.

and uh that really has thrown our

retirement into a uh spiral.

>> What were the what were the terms of the deal? >> Well, it was an owner financed deal for

uh three years

>> and you know the deal was that he would operate two years and be able to get SBA

financing. >> No, I get that. But over the three-year period, when the three years was done, what were you expecting to be paid?

>> Um, about a half a million. >> So, you were counting on a half a million and I'm guessing you're getting zero.

>> Uh, well, we didn't get much.

>> Okay. You have any other retirement accounts? Well, I just well we in trying to keep

the facility operating because we had

tenants uh renting out part of the facility.

Um I had to keep that up and going. So

we have kind of blown through what and

uh what retirement we had saved up. Now

>> what kind of facility is it? What? Like do you still have >> a food manufacturing facility?

>> Okay. >> It's a large facility.

>> Do you who owns that? Who who has ownership? I'm assuming the new >> the new owner. You still kept ownership.

>> Yeah. I leased I leased him the he bought assets of the >> All right. Understood. >> So So you have zero. You have Well, tell

me give me real numbers. How much did you get from the sale of the company? You said you got a little, not much. We need real numbers here. What do you Yeah, we got we got less than 100,000.

>> 90 80 75 >> 90 >> Okay. 90 >> 90. Okay. So 90,000 and then you have

zero retirement money,

>> right? Other than we just received an inheritance IRA from >> How much is that? >> Um >> how much? >> It's now at 100,000.

>> Okay. How old are you guys?

>> I'm 64. >> Okay. >> Okay. And how much is the building worth if you were to sell it today?

>> Uh have it now listing for 1 point uh

1.375.

>> Okay. >> Okay. So, go ahead.

>> Well, here's what we're doing. We Let's Let's hold this because there's more to there's more work to do here. So, uh hang on the line. Keep those numbers handy, Dan. We need those numbers. And we're going to pick up where we left off. All right. Okay.

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

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>> Substantial. >> I could knock a man out with this with very little effort. It's just that substantial. A lot of tabs. And I think that's probably a good feature for a planner as well, don't you think? >> And it's a little bit smaller than last year, so it's easier to just >> smaller than last year. What was last year? The scrolls. >> Uh, it was >> Wow. This is substantial. I I really am

fascinated by it. And uh you know else I like this little what do you call this? >> The binder. It's continuous so it can't come off like last year.

Last year we had a little bit of problems with it. This year it's completely solved. It's great. >> I feel like you might have engineered this not only contributed to it.

You're speaking with great knowledge about all this. >> I just Well, I'm part of the product and I I care about it. I love it. It's great.

>> I love it. There you go. All right. So, we're going to come back to Dan and uh Dan uh kind of set this up here.

sold his family business and the person

who bought it was owner financed. So that means they were paying Dan over three years and did not go well. So

we're running through the numbers. So Dan, we're we're coming back to you.

Let's let's recast on the numbers uh to

make sure that Jade and I are completely caught up. Um you walked away with

$90,000 cash from the sale of this company. Is that correct?

>> Correct. >> Okay. And uh you were expecting uh to

walk away with 500,000. Is that also correct? >> That is correct. >> All right. And uh you've depleted your

retirement funds down to basically nothing to kind of keep this building that you still loan afloat. Is that correct? >> That is correct. >> All right. Great. And so what did you tell me the if we were to sell this building today and you have listed it, what do you expect to actually walk away with?

the equity I would hope to walk away

with uh around 400,000.

>> Okay. >> Okay. And just to clarify, there's no business running out of it. It's just a building. You said you had a couple of renters in there. Is that what I heard?

>> Well, I restarted a different version of

the business that I sold because I had to keep the building going. >> Yeah. And how was that doing?

Well, my son came on board. He stopped

his career venture into insurance to

join with me and try to >> Yeah. >> re restart the business that we were

doing. >> And how's it going?

>> Well, it's still not paying for the bis the building and it's just bleeding me.

>> It's bleeding. >> So, will you shut that business down? >> The building the building is too big for what we are able to do. sell that

building. Would you keep that business going?

>> No, because now my son has decided he

wants to go back to insurance. >> Good move. I was going to suggest that.

So, so if I >> So, you know, with the risk of having to build a whole new smaller facility in

order to operate profitably, he doesn't

want to take that risk.

>> So, if if I'm reading the situation, if I've got the facts, Dan, correct me here. You were hoping to walk away with 500k over a three-year period, but if we sell this building, we're going to end up being at 490K now. So instead of 500k later, you're going to be 490 now, correct? >> Well, the 90 is gone, but >> it was still money.

It was still money you received. >> Wait, wait. Oh, so you've already spent. Okay.

I was under the impression you retained the 90. You're saying it's already been spent. >> Yes. >> Okay.

But same scenario.

get rid of the building you're going to have 400k >> hopefully. Yes. >> Okay. So the only difference is is we blew through retirement. How much retirement did you spend?

>> Probably 250.

>> Okay. So that's the number. So when I look at okay where we thought we were going to be was 500k in cash and 250

continuing to grow in retirement. Now we're going to be at 400 and zero in retirement. That's the difference. So we've got a $250,000 deficit.

>> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So we got to address that.

>> You know, my head has just been so wrapped up in all the arms and legs of this thing. I can't seem to critical think my way through these. And you know, I've tried to We never have been

much of a budgeter. Um, so I've thrown

all this mess together on a spreadsheet.

And >> I think uh >> I think you've had this for so long and it went away that you didn't want it to go and so you're kind of trying to grasp at straws to keep it. But I think the longer you keep it, the more lost you're going to feel. And and I get it. You've

sunk a lot of time and money and cost into this. And that's deceiving, right?

You keep thinking, "Oh, there might be a way that I can re reget it and get it back and get it back, but instead you're just losing at a very fast rate." >> Here's a quick question. >> I don't Where's your income? I understand the 400 because that was going to be a part of your retirement or were you planning to live off of the 500? In other words, all I want to know right now is how are you bringing in income?

>> Well, it's through the business that we're operating now. >> But you're about ready to shut that down. >> Yes. >> And so, so now that's our biggest issue.

So how much money what do you need to make? What kind of income do you need to replace? >> The hope is that I am willing to sell

off what is left of the businesses that

we are operating.

>> Yeah. >> Because there there are there is potential there. I mean there there are >> what kind of potential? What do you think it would be in dollars?

hopefully at least another three or

400,000. >> But that >> I think I can resell it again if I can split it up into two segments.

>> Well, now we're closing that gap with these new businesses >> and we can invest that in retirement and and replace the 250 with these numbers.

But again, where's our income?

If you sell those businesses, you still need some income. >> Yeah. What will you do? >> Yeah. Well, and that's and that's the next thing is this is all we've ever done. So, you know, manufacturing food is what we know. And

in order to duplicate that on a smaller

scale, we still have to have expensive

facilities.

>> So, then we're going through the mind process of of like your book is what

what are we really wired to do? Well, I get that. But I wonder if I wonder if you could go work for somebody instead of running the business. You're 65 and and you're trying to play catchup, but if we sell all these businesses and stack this cash, if I'm in your shoes, I'm looking to go do similar work, but I'm going to go do it for somebody else in this twilight and and allow myself to to keep stacking onto retirement.

>> You for right now, I'm not thinking that I have to start another manufacturing business. I actually think at this stage with you checking out of all these things and exiting, I would go do similar work, you know, contract work, go work for somebody else that does it.

Is it ideal for you? No. But is it a lot

safer and is it a lot calmer? And does it help you continue to catch up? Yes, that's what I would do. >> You also did say though, and I just want to play this out.

You said before, hey, we would be making money on the manufacturing business we have now, but we're our facility is too large, so we're bleeding because of it. And you said we needed a smaller facility. So my question is, if you sold off the smaller businesses that you've created as a result of having all this extra space, would that create the money you need to have the smaller facility so that the existing business can actually be profitable? and then overtime maybe you just have somebody else come in and run it like and that's kind of your your plan to transition out.

>> Well, we have considered that but you know without a son uh to take longevity

I just don't I just don't >> you don't have it in you. I can hear it.

I can hear you don't have it. You listen >> I've already retired once. I get I got to hear it that that idea while a good idea I think for you it's exhausting >> you know I'm I'm in good physical shape

so yes going to work somewhere for a

little while and stack up some more cash it's just >> that's the play >> so much to think through and and >> well I just simplified it I just simplified it for you and you got to be okay with it yeah you got to be okay going you know what the deal went bad it's not my fault that the bonehead ran it in the ground maybe I could have done something but we don't play that game.

We're not going to You're not going to just play armshare quarterback on yourself. Let's move forward. Sell everything. Let's stack the cash and let's retire with dignity.

[Music]

[Music]

Hey, how are you doing with the baby steps? Are you on track? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. All you do is go to our show notes, click on the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and you can

complete the quiz. It's a great resource. Let's go to Norman, Oklahoma.

Tristan is there. Tristan, how can we help? >> Hey guys, how you doing? >> Good. How are you?

>> Uh, pretty good. I have encountered a

situation. Um, I was not ready for it.

I've been listening to you guys for about a year now. And, um, about a month

ago, at the end of July, uh, I got into a wreck. Um, I was, um, I goofed. I was

trying to work the baby steps out of order. So, uh, not the smartest part of my end, but I was trying to get rid of my debt before saving up the the nest egg. So, I don't have $1,000 to help me out with, uh, getting a new car. The,

um, I was in a car accident and, uh, it was his fault. He ran into me and, uh, told him my car, but, uh, I just had liability. Now I don't have transportation, and I am trying to find

a vehicle off of like Facebook Marketplace, and I can't can't seem to find one within my price range. Right now, I have about 700 saved up and that's about all the money I have. And >> what? Okay, hold on. Slow down just one second here. So, because it was the other guy's fault, do have you talked to to your insurance people and his insurance people? Are you getting you should get some money on that for the car? Insurance from his insurance for your car.

>> Yeah. So, the thing is is like I said, I

was working on baby step two and so I was $6,000 before I was trying to get

paid off by the end of the year, but I was 6 $6,000 under and it was a 2016

Hyundai Sonata and so um I the value is

just right around there.

>> I'm I'm so confused, bro. >> So, you're saying you were upside down on the car? Is that what you're saying?

The 6K. Is that what you were saying?

>> Mhm. >> Upside down on the car. Okay. So, that's neither here nor there. >> Yeah. What's the car worth?

>> What is the total when the car was total? What is the number?

>> Um, so my attorney's been working on that. Um, she has gotten to me and the

lumber that we're looking at is at 5,500. >> So, you should be getting a check for 5,500 from his insurance agency.

>> But I was told that that was going to go straight to the bank since I'm in since it's under a loan. >> That is correct. I apologize. I I was so focused on your next car. That's okay.

So, that's gone. And you have $700.

>> Correct. >> Well, that's a Don't be looking for a $700 car. You might as well get a bicycle. >> Mhm. >> Cuz that's going to be more dependable.

I'm not even kidding. >> How old are you?

>> I'm 26. >> Okay. What do you do for work?

>> I am a teacher. >> A teacher. Okay. >> How far away do you live from the school? >> Um, I live about 11 miles.

>> Okay. So, you're still able to work?

Like, you're not injured from this, are you? >> Correct. I No. God was surrounding me.

Um, I'm going through PT right now. Um, I'm I I am filing an accident injury lawsuit. >> So, we're on the steps of that, but I don't know what to do in the meantime before I get that money. >> I think you're going to be on So, the first step is we need to figure out where is there any margin in your budget because that's what's going to be what you're putting towards saving up for a beater vehicle.

And in the meantime, you're doing a couple of things called the bus. You're doing you're taking the the cheapest level of lift. You're hitching a ride with, you know, >> how much bicycling have you done in your life?

>> Did you really? Okay. The reason I'm asking is what do you think 11 miles?

How long would it take you to ride 11 miles? >> I could ride I can ride a mile in like I

don't know like five minutes because I when I ride to my workout it's about a mile and a half away.

55. Yeah. I mean, if it's faster than that, but I, you know, I always underestimate these things. >> If it's a safe ride, >> I was pretty good on the Pelaton. >> If it's a safe ride, try it. Um, but >> you got to do something like that. I mean, that's the real That's the real real Tristan. Like, you're going to have to save. What do you think in your budget you could carve out every month to go towards a car?

>> Because you need like $3,000.

>> Yeah. I'm thinking I'm just trying to I'm still I'm still working on trying to get the I have the Every Dollar app, but I'm trying to get those behaviors in.

So, I'm not too good at it yet. >> No, no, no, no. Okay, you can do this today. So, I don't want you to over make

this too difficult. Today, you go in there and when you get paid from your from being a teacher, do you get paid twice a month?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, what are those checks?

>> Um, they are,300.

>> Okay. Okay. So, you put both of those $1,100 checks in there. And then you're going to say, "Okay, I've got $2,200." Do you teach full-time?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. I've got $2,200 to spend. And then from there, you're going to it's going to give you a place to put all the things you spend money on.

So, you're going to put your rent out of there. You're going to put everything out of there. So, when you were paying off debt, because you said, "Hey, I went too fast. I paid off my debt too fast and I didn't do the savings." When you were paying off your debt, how much extra were you putting towards paying off your debt?

Um, anything I could I I didn't have a specific number I was putting. Do you want to say I was paying my rent? >> Give me a good month.

>> Um, on a good month 600.

>> Okay. So now that essentially what I'm telling you is that $600 instead of going towards paying off your debt, you're going to stack that for the next two three months, two months until you

have okay uh 1,200 plus the 700 you had

before. You're going to have about $2,000. Right? So it's like, okay, great. Now I'm getting closer to being able to buy this car. If you can put another thousand with it, that's that's how this is going to work. Now the hard part is usually we would tell people if they're saving for a car, you need to be side hustling. You need to be doing this and that. But for you it's a slim margin because you don't have transportation.

So this is going to be a grind out for you for 3 months. >> Are you How much money you generating?

Because I'm over here. Um Jay, just so you know, I'm not um >> No, I know you're >> I'm not checking my stocks. I'm looking up used cars. Are you actually near Norman, Oklahoma?

>> Yes. >> Okay. >> I I'm in South Norman.

>> South Norman. How much money have you generated for him with this? >> He's going to have In two months he's going to have 2,000. In 3 months he's going to have uh if he grinds it out, he's going to have 3,000. >> Okay. All right. So, I'm just doing a check here. You're going to need uh I

think to be safe another thousand. Uh I'm looking at some some cars that again will get you from point A to point B. >> No, go lower. I think you can go lower.

Well, I'm just doing a quick, you know, Okay. I'm just saying I

direct to say like Facebook Marketplace, you probably can. >> Yeah, cuz he's only going 10 miles a day and then he can he can slowly up after that. >> Yeah, but I I like the 3 to 4,000. I just was playing off of your number. I think 3 to 4,000 is the number. And I would say uh Facebook Marketplace is a good play. Um but some of these dealers

get get really um >> seedy. Well, they're very happy to unload a like here's a 2007 Pontiac Vibe

base. I never even heard of this car.

>> I don't get that. >> I'm not saying you get it, but I'm saying you go to this dealer, they're asking $39.99 for that. You go in there with $2,000 in $100 bills and lay it on

the hood of that vibe and you're driving that thing away. >> Yeah. You shake his greasy hand and you're out the door. >> You don't even have to shake his hand. Just, hey, here it is. Spread it out.

And on and that guy's going to go 2,000 cash for a Pontiac vibe.

>> Well, don't spread it out. You're going to get the man jumped. Just just just

write a check like a normal.

>> No, you missing No, you're missing my drama. You thought that was gangster. I think that's a I think it's a flex.

>> It's like you're like unbutton your shirt, throw your chest hairs out, put a gold chain on, and just slap it on.

>> That works for $2,000. My point is cash

for these older cars. cash really goes a long way. >> It does. >> And that's all I'm saying. Just something practical there. But that's what your play is right now.

>> And then hopefully you get a nice check from this uh this case or whatever.

>> Yeah, I hope so. >> So yeah, man. >> This is called time.

>> That is, you know, there's an old phrase. You're a teacher, Tristan. You probably heard this. Where there's a will, there's a >> way. >> There you go. And um and this is the

time. And it's a very easy, by the way, because there's going to be a chorus of people singing. Go get a Go get a car

payment. >> Don't do it. >> And there's the choir. The choir is going to be singing it. >> Don't do it. >> There it is. >> Don't do it. >> Nice. Nice.

>> I'm always ready for you. >> You got to step out of the choir like Jade does. Like she has a different color robe than everybody else, you know? She's got the mic. She gets out center stage. That That's what you got to do here. The soloist. You got to be a soloist on this because the choir is going to get you in trouble with a car payment, you know. Don't do it. And uh I

tell you what, folks, you want to enjoy yourself sometime and you're really bored, nothing good on TV, pull up the old used car websites and look for cars

listed under $5,000. Give you a chuckle.

[Music]

[Music]

Our [Music]

scripture of the day comes from Ephesians 2:10. For we are God's handiwork created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do. Our quote of the day from

Ephesians 2:10 to Janice Joplain. It's always a just a natural bridge.

>> Indeed. >> You are what you settle for. Jesus to Jofflin >> with it all day. >> Thank you, Jade.

Well said. Uh, by the way, I want to be known for quotes like that. Just >> you are what you settle for. >> Yeah.

Six words. Like Janice just dropped the mic. >> She did drop it. >> She just said it, lit up a sig, and walked away.

>> No big deal. >> Nikki is in Missouri. Nikki, how can we help? Um there is a I'm a senior citizen widowed and there is another senior citizen much older than me w a widowerower who is interested in a relationship with me and with the goal of getting married because he wants to get married.

>> All right. All right. All right.

you're putting out the vibe, huh?

>> I know.

>> Well, there's more behind it though.

>> Oh,

yes. He does not know my financial situation, but I know his completely.

>> Okay. >> I like how you roll, Nikki. I like it.

>> So So you've got money and he doesn't

>> Exactly. >> So he doesn't know you could be a sugar mama.

>> He just got out of a sugar mama relationship. In fact, I'm the one that that pointed it out and said, "Look, let me lay this out for you and she's going to take all your money." She had every bit of his money in a joint account with her name on it. >> And did she take it? Did she take it?

>> No. I um >> But he doesn't have a whole lot anyway.

>> No. 125,000.

>> Oh, that's it. >> All right. So, what is your uh Keep going. So, what's your concern or what's your question for us? >> All right. My concern is >> he told me that that 125 is burning a hole in his pocket. And it's like, you know, his pension alone is about a h

100,000 a year. >> Okay. >> And so, you know, he makes good money, but where is it?

>> Is he that bad with money?

>> Well, apparently he was spending it on this last lady. Now he wants to spend it on you. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, what's this?

This >> So, is this leading to should I mean, I feel like you're leading to another question here. I I don't want to ask it for you. I want you to ask it. What's your question?

>> I'm ready. I'm worried that I'm worried that he's going to end up needing very expensive nursing home care or something and he's going to blow through his money instantly and then >> I'd have to dip into mine if we're married.

>> He's 81. >> And how old are you?

>> 68. >> Oh yeah. See, I don't know.

>> Interesting. >> I don't know. Well, first of all, we jumped ahead to all this. The way this call started is I just met this guy. He just got out of this other relationship.

>> Seems very fast. This all seems fascinating. Do you even like this guy?

>> Well, we've been Facebook friends for over three years. >> Well, that doesn't mean anything. I'm not going to marry my Facebook. First of all, I'm married. But if I was in your situation, I wouldn't I wouldn't consider marrying a Facebook friend.

>> That would be more criteria.

>> Oh, no. We've liked each other's pictures for three years. We thought maybe we would uh tie the knot.

>> What else is there, >> Nikki? No. This guy needs to court you.

Can I Can I act like >> I I know I I'm not I'm not saying that he's not going to.

>> But he has he started yet is the question. Or are we jumping ahead?

>> But we're talking about something we shouldn't talk about is what I'm getting at, Nikki. This guy's got to earn your love. He's got to earn the right to to

marry you. At which point you discuss all these things in this process. And if if you guys aren't in aligned if you're not aligned with your money at this late stage of life, >> you shouldn't do it. >> Yeah. >> Because I mean, God bless him. 81.

>> That's my question is if >> or because he has such a good income, do

I not worry about it so much? Am I overthinking this? >> I think Well, we're trying to get a bead on what the relationship actually is.

>> It ain't. >> Are you dating? It's Facebook.

>> No, it it isn't yet. I have been putting him off. He asked me out two years ago and I said, "Oh, I'm in the middle of the house." Your hair. >> Okay. >> You were washing your hair. Then she went to that one. That's great.

>> But wait a minute. Wait a minute. >> Nikki, let me ask a question. >> I don't think you really like this guy.

I feel like it's a line in the water and you're like, "Well, I'm not doing anything else." >> I think you're 68 and you're a widow and this guy's interested in you and that's kind of nice, but you don't. You haven't said anything that makes me think there's something there. >> No, you said he would like to get married. >> There isn't. There there isn't yet.

Well, he asked me already >> to marry, >> you know, I want to basically >> we said, you know, would you consider getting married? And it's like, well, I don't know. I don't even have met you yet.

>> Do you live in the same space to actually meet each other in person?

>> We're going to in a week and a half.

He's coming here. He's six hours away.

>> So, you really legitimately have never met him? >> Hold up. How do we know this isn't catfishing? Do you even know what that means?

Yeah, but I I really don't think it is.

He is too open and honest. No,

Nikki, you are you have a hook in both sides of your mouth right now, and this needs to stop. You do not have any more communication with this guy until this 81-year-old wrinkled dude shows up in his Bermuda shorts and is the real deal.

Yeah, >> this is this is a I'm not kidding you.

>> Yeah, neither am I. I I wish D I wish Dave were here today and I don't want to get mean like Dave, but I'm telling you everything you're saying sounds like you are being completely punked and you are

falling for it. Your first reply to me was, "Oh, no, no, but he's so open and honest and that's how they get you." >> And why would you even be talking about finances >> to this level with somebody that you've never even seen in person?

Oh, that was because of the the scammer he was with last and he just about went >> right. But even that part all >> not met this guy. You don't even know if he's real. >> Yeah, that this all sounds like a scam.

>> Tell him to come meet you.

>> Let me go. >> He is. He's going to wait until I'm going to do that for two months. >> Let's wait and see if he shows up. >> Yeah, let's see if he's on. This guy never shows up because he gets a mysterious case of overnight gout.

>> Yeah. Do you know anybody else that knows him?

Okay. We get on uh Facebook widowed video chats and so you know you kind of get to know the people in the group and he was in that group for a long time.

>> Yeah, he was. Cuz that's where I would fish if I was a scammer. >> But you've seen his face. >> Know where the fish are biting >> as a as a Zoom call is what you're saying. >> Buy it. What's his name? >> Yeah.

>> Charlie. >> Yeah. It's not real.

>> It actually is. I've

need to wait to see him. If you see him in person, >> I'm getting angry. >> If you see him in person, you've had Zoom calls with him, seeing his face. If you see him now, if he's doing the the the Wilson from Home Improvement where you never see the >> It's always like this and you never see the whole face. >> Nikki, if your daughter called us, if

you had a daughter, I don't know if you have a daughter or not, it doesn't matter. But if you had a daughter or if you do have a daughter and she called us and you were listening to this call, what in the world would you say to her?

Oh, I know it. But she's much younger than me. >> It doesn't matter. You're not a desperate lost case. You You've got to be careful. >> The other thing is I honestly think he want He I told him where I lived >> last year. Gee, that's smart. That's smart. >> I know it. I know it. I do trust that I

>> No, no, no, no. I'm done. I'm not going to be as mean as Dave, but I'm gonna tell you something, Nikki. I'm going to tell you the truth because I feel like I have to tell you the truth and then Jade can clean it up. I'm gonna give you my 30 seconds and then >> Nikki, this is absolute foolishness.

>> Whether it's a scam or not, >> this is foolishness. And I'm being very, very serious.

>> And I'm going to tell you why. >> I don't care. I'm not listening. No, I don't want I don't want to hear it. Let me tell you why. >> You need to protect your heart. No, you need to protect your heart. Whether it's a scam or not, you are talking about finances and combining your life with a guy that you've never been on a date with. that is significantly older than you that based on what he's told you so far the he's reckless with money and all

these other things. There's nothing stable about this entire phone call.

Nothing stable. The only thing that's stable is your financial situation. But you are putting your financial and your emotional situation in massive risk. And

I'm telling you the absolute truth. You need to run from this. if this guy's real, if he wants to pursue you like you were when you were 22, then we have a conversation. And I'm not that I need this, but everybody in the audience out there is shaking their head.

And and this is insanity that you're considering this. And so J, >> only a desperate person would go forward with this. Only a desperate stupid woman. And you are neither of those things.

So don't do it.

know, would be would be he said his p

his full pension goes to his wife when he dies if he's married here.

>> You don't need his pension. You don't need Well, then why are we still having this conversation? Go hang out with some

fried green tomatoes and have some strong margaritas and cry yourself to sleep tonight about how lonely you are because that's what's going on. You're lonely.

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## 286. You’re Either Building Wealth or Losing It | October 16, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsay Show and I'm Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author Jay Borshaw. and we're here to answer your questions. So give us a call at88255225.

But first we have Drew in Fort Worth, Texas. Hey Drew, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Quick background before I state my question. Uh 15 years ago, my parents

went broke and transferred their house to me for a symbolic dollar to keep it

from the bank. the transfer was legal.

Uh the contract gives them a lifelong right of residence but doesn't require rent. They only pay property taxes and upkeep, meaning uh no positive cash flow on my end. They also verbally agreed to pay off the remainder uh of the mortgage. Uh because of that, they have always acted as if the house was still theirs, allowing people to live in parts of the house and remodel sections without my knowledge. And I'm okay with that. Now, after their court case ended

last year, they're expecting me to pay for the house. And my question is, am I

required to pay them if I want to keep the house? >> So, they would be moving out in this deal. They would be moving out and the house would go to you.

>> Uh, no. The lifer wrong residency, right? Residency keeps them in there and I'm okay with that. >> Right. that you said that they it sounded like you were saying they want you to pay for the house which means they would move. Correct.

>> No. >> Or they want to live there while you pay for it.

>> Exactly.

>> Well, jeez. How much is How much is the house worth, Drew?

>> Uh more than 500K.

>> Okay. How old are you?

>> I'm 36. >> 36. Do you have a family?

>> Yes. >> Okay. And and so everyone's living in the house together.

>> Uh no, we actually living in a different country. That house is not in is is not in Texas in Fort Worth.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. So your family is

in a different country. Wait, explain it again. I'm confused. >> Yes. So I and my family, my wife and our

kids, we are living we are here in Texas. Okay. And um my parents they live

in that house in a different country.

>> Got it. So what what is Go ahead.

>> Now as the court case ended last year that raised the questions the question how do we proceed and they v verbalized

the expectation that I pay if the house

if I keep the house.

>> Right. And my my question is yes, I would like to keep the house and the transfer was legal, but I I don't think

to be honest to be required to pay.

>> Well, I think if you're going to keep the house, you should be living in it

or, you know, deciding some way. Yeah.

As opposed to you keeping it just for ownership purposes and them living in it. Now, if you were to keep it, would you require them, let's say you did keep it, you kept the, you know, you took over the mortgage, would they pay you rent or they would pay zero?

>> Um, I don't know.

>> And why would you pay for a house, Drew, that you're not that you're not living in at all? I mean, you you have no financial gain at all from this.

>> And it's in a different country. What country is it in?

>> It's in Germany. >> Okay. So the the point is I would like to keep the house to generate workflow uh cash positive cash flow after they moved out probably and I'm I'm okay with them living in the house after they they

uh um pass away. The point is >> okay I see >> at that point I I would generate I would generate positive cash flow at that point and uh I do not intend to live in that house. I think it's a it's an asset for me to generate um pass um

>> I hear what you're saying, but here's what it sounds like. It sounds like the number one thing you're concerned about is having a place for your parents to live and providing that. Otherwise, if that wasn't number one on your list, you would sell that house and buy a house here in the States 500,000 that's in Fort Worth. >> Yeah. >> So, I don't think that having a rental

property is your number one goal. I think somewhere along the lines you feel the the need to house your parents and I

think that's the real conversation here, right? >> Yes. I think I think you nailed that.

Yes. I'm concerned about them as far as I want them or I agreed to the lifelong

right of residence in the contract and I honor that. So, but I do not see any

reason why I should pay them now as the

house is technically and and legally mine that I should pay them back for the

house. >> Is the is the house paid off?

>> Yes. >> Okay.

And how much do they want you to pay back?

>> Um, we did not talk about that yet.

>> Okay. It just sounds like Drew, there's a lot of details that you guys haven't talked about. If I were in your shoes today, this is very messy and if I were

in your shoes, I'd say, "Guys, you know, thanks. You know, you guys included me in this, but I don't want to be included anymore." >> Yeah. I was going to say, can you from a legal standpoint because I'm I'm a little bit unfamiliar. I guess that's German law, the the lifelong res.

I mean, >> yeah. Right of residence. >> Yeah. I mean, I'm not I'm not 100% sure on that, Drew.

So my question is, is there any way legally you can get it out of your name, give it back to them, and then they leave it to you when they pass as a as you know, their estate?

there a way just for you to be completely out of the situation just while they're alive and let them have their house and they've paid for it, right? They paid it off, right? Not you.

>> Yes. Yes, they did. Okay. Yeah. Yes. So,

is there any way just let them live in their house? They But you don't need to pay them. I don't think you need to pay them because you're not living in it >> and you're not selling it >> and it's not your asset. Yeah.

[Music] >> So, if I Yeah. So, I Yeah.

>> If I were you, I would see even legally

if there's a way to get your name out of this whole Yes. Because for some reason, if they fall behind on property tax or whatever it looks like for them, if there's any catchall for you, Drew, >> then you're here in Texas, >> you know, and your parents, they paid for the house, all that. So, no, I don't think you need to pay them back, but if it's in your name, I could see how they're thinking, okay, they don't have any >> control >> control and they don't have anything to their name at that point.

>> Yes, they paid for the house, but legally they transferred it to me for a dollar. >> Yeah. Yeah, they did. So, either either you transfer it back for a dollar. Can

you do that? >> Uh, no. for 120,000 taxes.

>> That's the limit like that's the minimum that you can do.

>> No, if I would transfer it according back to them according to the law, German law at this point, they would pay

120,000 in in property in selling in

taxes. >> Selling it taxes.

>> Got it. So the only way then >> Oh boy.

>> Yeah, it is a mess. And I almost would find some kind of legal way to write this up. up. I don't know how you would do that, but >> but I don't Yes, they paid for the house. >> You didn't pay anything for the house.

Yet, you were given a $500,000 gift

>> and then they're like, >> "Well, it was Let's remember it wasn't a gift. It was to shield them from like Yes. negative behavior, it sounds like." Yeah, my my my position would be uh I

think I've paid far more already than the house is worth because a few months after I signed the can contract, I discovered that I had lost eligibility for government financial aid for a college degree. >> Ah, okay. You got to get with a lawyer to get out of this. >> Yeah. At that point, then you're then you're tangled in a mess. But I would not want my name on a deed or a situation that I have no control over or I'm not around. That's that would be my number one for you, Drew.

[Music]

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[Music]

Up next, we have Josh in Seattle, Washington. Hi Josh. Welcome to the show. >> Hi Rachel. How are you? >> Hi. We're doing great. How can we help?

Yes, I had a question about converting a home equity line of credit over to like

a 12 or 15year mortgage because we're not making any progress. We're just paying interest only right now and will for the foreseeable future. >> Okay. Because of the payment and you what that's what you guys can afford or what?

Uh we we pay um a ridiculous amount for

private school education for four kids and that's kind of locked down our our monthly um I guess ability uh to make

any progress. >> How much how much is the heliloc and how much is the tuition for the four kids?

>> Sure. So the like the interest only payment or how much do we owe um on >> tell me why don't you tell me both. What's the total amount and how much do you pay every month? Sure. So, we owe

$65,28 and then our minimum our interest only payment each month is right around $450.

It kind of fluctuates because it's a variable rate. >> And then our monthly monthly payment for

private school is $3,74.

>> And what's your income between you and your wife?

>> Sure. So, it just changed. My wife just went back to work this year. So, she'd been out of work um raising the kids, not out of work. Jeez, how insensitive.

No, she uh she was at home with the kids and just went back to work a month ago.

So, that just added about $1,000 a month. So, our total take-home is right around uh 10 sorry, 11,500

right around there. >> And what's your mortgage payment?

>> Uh we don't have one.

>> Oh, it's paid. Your house is paid off.

What did you What did you take the heliloc out on? Did you What?

uh to do a home. We lost our minds. Um

we we paid off the house. We were completely debtree and we were working baby steps uh four, five, and six. And then I had some really good ideas and uh it turns out they were terrible ideas and um we borrowed 105,000 for a home

remodel and then spent the rest in cash.

>> Okay. But still you were m you're making 11,500. School is 3,000 a month total.

37 >> 37 3,700.

>> Okay. Still, so you're at 7,000 a month.

You have no mortgage. Where's the problem here to pay $450 a month or

more? You could pay $1,000 a month to pay off this HELOC.

>> Yeah, it would just take forever.

>> There's the problem. Okay, now Rachel, now we got to the bottom of it. It has nothing to do with the payment. It has to do with the fact that you're like, I'm tired of paying this. Can't I just roll it into my mortgage so I or create a mortgage out of it? >> Which which would be a difference though for you, Josh. Like what's the It's all It's all the same. Is it just the interest that you're worried about?

>> Yeah, it's we're not making any progress and it's interest only. So we're not making a dent in the 65,000. That's >> So how much extra could you pay? Say you did convert it to a mortgage. How much extra would you find to pay to pay it?

Um, >> because if you kept it at 450, I'm not going to be h how much?

>> 500 a month. >> Where's all your money going, Josh? I'm confused.

>> I mean, can you guys log into my every dollar app? >> Yeah, I I know. I kind of want to.

>> You log in. Why don't you lo in and tell us? >> Because you're living like you're on baby steps four, five, and six, but you're not. You guys are back to baby step two, which means beans and rice, rice and beans, and you're doing nothing

but paying down the 65,000. This could be a student loan. This could be a car.

You could throw any any type of debt on this. >> That's what this is. And you guys are back to that starting point.

>> And it doesn't need to be a mortgage.

>> Yeah. I mean, just like >> take live on nothing. You don't have a house payment. Like

>> I'm laughing because it's it's kind of

shop at Aldi. Don't go out to eat. Don't go on vacation. Cut subscriptions. Do nothing until this is paid off.

>> Yes. And you've got the income to do it.

I mean, you got to at least find 2,000 out of this.

>> I mean, not really. When we when we look at the numbers and where we're allocating funds, like contributing to the Roths. >> No, stop it. Stop it. You're on baby step two, Josh. You're not on baby steps four, five, and six. Stop the kids college. Stop retirement. All of it. And get this $65,000.

It's paid off.

You got >> because because Josh because what are you you're wanting to convert it to a mortgage and then put it what in baby step six and then just kind of slowly like >> get rid of it. >> Yeah, that's what he wants to do.

>> Yeah, cuz then with the extra if we paid you know what we're paying right now for it um in addition to >> Here's why I don't like that for you.

Here's why I don't like that for you. because you already >> I don't like you putting it into a mortgage because now this is

>> risk on your home, right? And I don't

like this because you're already like it sounds like you're averse to paying off debt. So, this is a can that you're going to kick down the road for a really long time. >> And I think you're trying to put yourself in a position where you can kick the can down the road. >> Yeah. Because you guys make how much a year?

Um, right now about

145 before >> Yeah. Because kind of our rule of thumb, Josh, is if if a heliloc is over half of

your annual income, then we say you can roll it into your primary mortgage. But it's not. >> It's less than half of it. So, it's got to be on baby step two.

>> And I'm 46 and stopping retirement right now. >> You're 46 and sorry, took out $100,000 that you borrowed on your home. Like I don't that should make you more intense.

That the fact that you said, "Oh my gosh, I'm 46. I took out this HELOC. I have to pause retirement." That should make you go, "Holy crap, I got to get my butt in line and I got to like go." And instead, you're like, "Gosh, get this paid off in two years.

>> Get it paid off in two years." >> That Yeah. I mean, that so that you Yeah. You called I think you're I think you were enjoying the ride of baby steps four, five, and six. Then you went back in debt, which takes you back to baby step two.

>> I never wanted to call because of that because I was afraid Dave was going to answer and then I was going to get destroyed. >> I'm nicer than him, though. I'm at least saying it with a smile.

>> I >> Yeah. No, it's it's it's awful. Um >> No, I'm not saying I know. >> We're not trying to make you feel bad. >> I'm not trying to make you feel bad, Josh. I know. I just want to I want to I need you I'm trying to shake you back into reality of where you are financially. >> Yeah. And so that's where you guys are.

And so you got to go back in that mindset >> and and y'all paid off your house. Like you guys can do this. You guys can do this. And I know >> um that it's not fun, but I'm like when you have that all paid off, you're not even going to have to worry about this.

And I think you can do it in two two and a half years. >> Yeah. >> And if your wife works extra, if she if she makes double what she's making now instead of $1,000 a month, >> there you go.

I like have her go back more full time.

I do have >> I've been doing real estate for 10 years and so right now with working full-time the government I do about six to eight transactions a year in real estate. So if if that comes through and if that continues we we could if we went back to step two >> um >> it's just not we can't count on okay so maybe step two final >> I would and final final answer and again just I go back to the math of it then the math doesn't have emotions so it doesn't have my like Josh what did you do it is half of your annual income is the heliloc and that's kind of just the rule of thumb around Ramsay if it's half of it you put it in baby step two if it's more than that u you know if you had if it was at still $100,000 That would be a little different.

>> it's the pain of the consequences of going backwards >> of course >> and feeling that >> and that's what happens you know and people you know listening right now that happens to people because of you know a job loss they go through their emergency fund they can't replace an income they go back into debt like sometimes it happens because of life happening to you >> Josh I love you but sometimes it's us choosing to make >> the new kitchen Yes. Um and so that's

why you got Yeah. And the heliloc and I bet I bet it because he said I think they started at 100 or something. So I mean they they've they've knocked some of it down which makes me think they got it a few years ago during the co Oh yeah

2021 2022 when when helocks just became so popular because everyone's at home being like okay let's get a pool and everybody's mortgage doubles. >> Yeah that's right. That's right. You get all this equity and you're like okay I can use this. Um but that's the problem.

And then also here the pain you guys of of the of the variable rate um the variable rate. Um it the heock it's all

yes it is up and down and it kind of rides that wave and um and all the formulas of even how they how they get it. So >> just cash flow these things you guys.

And it takes longer. It's not as fun. It may not be as beautiful but at least you can afford it that you're living within your means. So Josh, we are cheering you guys on. Call us back in in two and a half years. I hope it's sooner >> and do your another Yeah, do another debtree scream.

[Music]

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[Music]

Well, thank you for all of you that join us, uh, whether it's on YouTube, podcast, Spotify, um, radio, all of it. We appreciate it.

And one of the best things that you can do for us is help spread the word. So,

make sure to like, subscribe, share our episodes with your friends and your family, uh, because we want everyone to be able to start to learn how to get control of their money and how to, um, do this area of their life well. So, that's always helpful for us, but we're always so thankful to you guys. All right, up next, we have Sarah, who is in Kentucky. Hi, Sarah. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks so much for having me on.

>> You're so welcome. How can we help today?

Okay. So, my best friend um claims to

essentially live by the Ramsay method, but nothing they do is

like Ramsay approved, I guess you could say. >> Oh, no. What do they What do they do, Sarah?

>> Well, okay. So, since I've been friends with her, which was starting at the beginning of the year, like they have owned like four or five different vehicles.

like they're constantly buying and trading and and they claim they make money off of these vehicles and I'm thinking like >> buying a $9,000 vehicle to make four grand doesn't make sense. >> Well, are they paying cash for it?

>> No. >> Oh, okay. Why does it What do you care?

Why do you care?

>> Cuz it kind of drives me crazy.

>> So, >> because I know like what they're doing.

like they just went out and bought a $120,000 Escalade and I literally was

like, "You all could have paid off half of your mortgage for what you just spent on this car." She says, "Well, I get too many tax deductions from having a house.

I don't want to pay off mortgage." >> So, she doesn't follow the Ramsay plan, but you do.

>> Yes, I have. Yes, I've started listening to you all in the last few months. I've just got my thousand dollar saved up and I'm working towards >> um I've got like $3,000 of debt, so I'm

working on that. But yeah, I I listen to you guys every single day. I clean houses for a living and I'm a single mom, so I have nothing but time on my hands to listen. >> You're amazing. Okay, so how can we how can we help you? >> I'm going to help I'm gonna help you right now. >> But what's your what's what's the what Yeah. How what can we do for you today?

I I struggle being their friends because of the lifestyle that they live.

>> There you go. >> Sarah, I'm going to tell you what I tell my son all the time.

>> Okay. So, I can tell my son, >> "Prince, go upstairs and brush your teeth." And the minute I say that, he's like, "Well, Zezy didn't brush her teeth." And he's always looking over at what she's cuz I've given him a responsibility and he wants to make sure that the other person has to do their responsibility as well. And I told him the other day, I said, "You want to know what you need to do, Prince? Just mind your business. Take care of yourself.

>> Take care of yourself and mind your own business. And I, you know, she'll get

dealt with. Don't worry about that. I'm looking and I see what she's doing over here. You don't have to worry about that. Just mind your own business and go brush your teeth. And I would tell you the same thing, Sarah. Mind your own business and pay off your debt. And if

she's your friend and she's like, "Well, I'm doing the baby steps, too." All you have to do is say, "No, you're not." >> Or just smile. >> And just smile. that sweet Kentucky

southern passive aggressive to smile and nod. Bless your heart. >> It's all you need to do. You just look at her and smile. >> It stresses me so bad here.

>> Okay. So, hey, okay, but you're but it's not your bills. You know what I mean? Now, now Sarah, I will say I will say there there there is um and I don't want

this to sound isolating this comment, but just the idea of when you shift your mind and you change your mind, you do start to want to gravitate towards people that are like-minded.

>> That's true. >> And so there may be a point and I'm not saying you can't be friends with people in debt. Okay. My I mean like >> if we live by that we would have probably >> have no friends.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's not even that. It's not an isolating comment, but I think it's good self-awareness to say, "Wow, I have changed the way I'm viewing this part of my life." And people that are not congruent with it, I can feel this like tension point.

And man, it kind of sucks that I feel like I'm like, you know, growing in this area and other people aren't. And you're going to probably feel that tension. And over time, does that naturally maybe, you know, start to separate you guys? I don't know.

Maybe, Sarah. I have no idea. Um, >> I mean, we go to church together and everything. I feel like there's no getting away from her.

I'll just be honest. >> Well, do you want to get away from him for other reasons, too? It sounds like maybe you do. >> Is she like a just not a fun person?

Cuz Yeah, if that's the case. >> Well, no.

anything. Like she has a little boutique she's been running on the side and she claims to make like 10 or 15 grand a month off of this business. >> What's wrong with that? And I know that.

>> What do you mean? What's wrong with it? >> What can I tell you? I'm I'm your buddy right now. I'm I'm going to be your >> So, y'all aren't going to offend me. I promise. I want y'all to be open.

>> I think there's certain things that I'm tracking with you where I'm like, yeah, that could be a little bit annoying or, you know, yeah, she's wrong. But there are certain things, Sarah, that you're saying that actually sound a little bit like you're kind of hating on him a little bit.

I just she's not considerate of like my life if

that makes sense. Like she has nothing to do. She doesn't have a job or anything. >> But you said she runs a boutique. Her life is different from yours. And Sarah, she might >> But she doesn't like she only does events. >> That's okay. She may Sarah, she could do less. She could be putting in less hours than you and making more money than you.

And you cannot hate on her for that. And

Sarah, her and her husband can buy

whatever cars they want.

They can. And I get it that you don't like it, but that doesn't affect you.

And you're letting it get too much in your life. And as much as you think that she's not being a good friend right now, you're also not being that great of a friend because you're hating on her a little bit.

And this is just be me being a good friend to you.

I don't I don't want to feel like I'm h I don't want it to seem like I'm hating on them. It's just >> I know >> the lifestyle they live and she like and she's well we live a normal life and I'm

just like no you don't though like I

just >> I don't we've only been friends for like nine months. So I mean it's this is all kind of really new for me and >> yeah I think you here's what I think. I think you're a really hard worker and I think you know how to grind and I think you know how to you know what I'm saying? You're willing to put in lots of work.

you you understand struggle. You you're ready to get in the ring all the time. I can sense that about you. And I think it's irking you that somebody is acting like they're working as hard as you when you're like, "No, you're not." And I get that.

>> She does. She does. And and my friend Amanda from church, she's like, "It's all about perspective with the work." And I get that. I do get that.

>> I know that. Well, and Sarah, so I think and and I've had to do this for myself throughout the years, too, because >> when you're comparing your life to someone else, I wanted to blame the other person. And I even in my head would sometimes be like, I bet they're on the trip to Europe on credit cards, and I bet they can't even afford. Here I am, and I have to wait another six months, so we go on, you know, I mean, you make up a story about someone and I had to finally tell myself, Rachel, you don't know.

You don't know how hard they work. You don't know how much money they actually make.

You don't know. And I shouldn't know.

It's none of my business. And actually, the problem is not them. It was me. It's me.

In the comparison world, we want to blame social media. We want to blame the neighbor. We want to blame everyone else. >> But to be honest, it ends up being more of our issue.

And so where can you get to a point Sarah that number one you are confident in who you are and the choices you're making around money and your lifestyle that when other people come up and that their lifestyle looks so different than you andor you know you have thoughts about it if you get could get to the point where you just think honestly like you know good good for y'all great job okay and I get to move on because the amount of energy and effort that she's >> in your brain right now like the the the rent freeze space that she has in your brain.

Sarah, it's not worth it. Now, the friendship element, if Dr. John Zaloney was sitting here, we could have a relational conversation of, hey, she may not be somebody that you guys share similar values, and I'm probably not >> kept a lot of friends throughout. Like, she's not been able to ever keep friends over long term.

>> Then that's great to know. Then I would put that in your data in your head of okay, she may be a she may be a hard person to love and be in relationship with, and that's okay. But we can be kind. We can be curious and not judgmental.

Um, and y'all go to church, Sarah. Let's let's bring some of this peace and patience and kindness and goodness.

Even though some people are hard to love and as as my dad says, some children of God are stupid children, right? Like there are some, but I think we can say it all. But have a level of grace for

her um and yourself. And it's okay to have boundaries, Sarah. If you need to put up relational boundaries with her, that's okay, too.

[Music]

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Well, it's crazy to think, Jade, but the new year, it's approaching.

>> Oh my gosh, >> wild. We are we are in that se that fall

season where these months are going to fly. And I would encourage you guys not just to set goals in 2026, but learn how to reach them. And that's one reason we created the 2026 Ramsay goal planner. it

is here and always packed as it has been in years past with great money content um great spiritual content, relational content. So myself, Jade and Dr. John

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our thoughts and um everything around

this planner because it is so important.

Especially those of you that love planners, you're going to love it because it has so much information. It has so many ways of calendars, weekly, monthly, like all you need in a great planner, it is here and it is selling

quickly. We only we don't have a ton left. Yeah. >> Uh and once these are done, we do not reorder them. So, we sell it every year.

So, do not wait. Get yours for $49.97

at ramseysolutions.com/store.

Or if you are watching on YouTube or listening on podcast, we will put a link below. But again, go get your 2026 Ramsay goal planner before they sell out. All right, let's go to Morgan in

Chicago. Hi, Morgan. Welcome to the show. >> Hi, thanks for having me.

>> Absolutely. How can we help?

>> All right, so my husband was laid off a couple months ago and I was recently promoted. Um, previously we were both making about 150,000 for a total of 300,000 for the household. and and with my promotion, I'm going to be now making $182,000.

Congrats. It's worth noting I work remotely and I have great work life balance. But as my husband starts to look for his next role and we look to start a family, my question is twofold.

One, can I quit my job to become a stay-at-home mom, Lord willing? And two, if I can, how much would my husband need to make in order to sustain our family?

>> Okay. So, are you do you guys have kids right now? >> We don't. No, but you're wanting to maybe start a family soon.

>> That is the hope. >> Okay, great. That's so fun.

>> I'm glad you're looking ahead. Do you guys own a house right now or where are you in the baby steps?

>> We do. We're in Chicago right now. We

have a mortgage. We just refinanced.

We're down to about $3,000 with our HOA

a month. Okay. >> Um we might need to look to moving to his family's from Pittsburgh and we might be thinking about moving there just as we look to grow the family.

Yeah, >> whenever people call in. So, I'll kind of tell you in reverse how this usually happens. Usually what ends up happening is one spouse wants to stay home and the biggest issue and the biggest barrier to that is their mortgage, right? Because once they lose that other income, the mortgage, which was 25% of their take-home becomes 50% of their takehome, right? >> So, that's really one of the biggest uh

pitfalls that if you can avoid that, yeah, you're setting yourself up for success. So, your income going up to 182

and his remaining at 150. Yeah. The

question is, can you guys live off of 150 or whatever it is that you foresee his income to be in the next year or two whenever the family starts,

>> right? And I think right now the issue is he was in consulting and that market has taken quite a hit and he's looking to move into a different industry. So he might have to take he's a CPA and a certified treasury professional. So we're hoping that those certifications will help him parlay into what he's looking to move into. But the likelihood is that he's probably going to be taking a pay cut moving down into like the 90 $100,000 range. And so that would it

would change our lifestyle, how we tie

>> everything about our budget. >> That's a big I mean that's a $200,000

jump down, >> right? Um, do you guys have any debt?

>> We don't, thankfully. >> Okay, that's >> And why do you guys feel like he's automatically going to make less? Like, is there anything that from what he's done in the past and you know what I mean? Like, why is there an industry that he can enter >> into? Yeah. >> That he loves and make more.

>> That would be I mean, that'd be an answered prayer for sure. I'm definitely in the camp that I think he's got he was eight years at a big four consulting firm which people kill for that kind of experience. Yeah. I think when you're in consulting sometimes though you're kind of a jack of all trades a master of none and so it's hard for him to find an

industry role where he has the exact background that they're looking for and the the market's just bad right now in general for hiring. So >> yeah. Well, the good thing is y'all aren't in a r, you know, you're not in a rush. If anything, by next month, maybe you have nine months, right?

I mean, like if if it if it happens quickly and if you guys decide to start now, but maybe you guys are like, well hey, we'll wait or maybe it takes a little longer. We don't know. So, the good thing is you guys have time. I ju we just see on this show a lot and I'm going to sound like Dave because I feel like he went on this rant last time I was on the show with him that this it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy of people that change jobs >> automatically think they're going to make less.

And so there's and I'm not this like person like oh just think it and it's going to happen.

But but be aggressive like like have some level of gumption and confidence of like oh no you do have he does have experience and like you just said people would kill for that kind of experience. And I understand that it's a little bit more of a broad thing and he wants to go more specific. I get all that but as you guys are looking don't just assume oh he's going to make less. So have him you know I mean like I don't know I I would have a little bit more pep in his step and belief in himself too.

uh so that it's not an automatic pay grade. Number one. And then yeah, number two, Morgan, I think you guys will have to, you know, make some calls um when that re when the reality really hits. I really appreciate you guys planning and thinking ahead.

Um but when the reality actually sets in, when you know, when you become pregnant and all of that that you're going to really get to kind of crunch numbers and see, right, >> okay, are we going to be able to afford to stay in Chicago? Are we going to make the move now? you know, it's going to answer, I think, a lot of questions depending on what job he takes.

that 9month period, he's going to find something great. >> Yeah, I agree. Yeah. I the best thing you could do is to test it >> before it's actually real. And I mean, it's going to be hard with a $3,000 a month mortgage, but >> get a sense and say, "Okay, for the next two months, we're going to live >> off of the, you know, the net amount of $100,000, and let's see what that feels like." And you have the luxury of

testing that to see and just get a sense of it. And if you're like, "Oh my gosh, this is not what I thought it was going to be." Then then you can start talking about what does that mean? Right. So yeah, test it. Put it in into real >> into real life.

>> Yeah, that's wise. Thank you guys. I appreciate that. >> Yep. Absolutely. Morgan, good luck to you guys. All right. Up next, we have Trenton in Los Angeles. Hi, Trenton.

Welcome to the show.

>> Hey, thanks for having me. How are you both doing? >> We're doing great. How can we help today? >> Hey. Uh, so it revolves around uh 401k plans. I have like three of them uh from

power companies that I've worked with.

>> Would you guys suggest to to bring them into one like combine them into one or keep them as is? And if so, what's the smoothest way to do that? And is there any like investment firm or uh company that you would recommend putting them in? >> Well, I would roll them all probably into just one IRA is probably the easiest way from a tax position. And um

do you have a financial planner that you are working with in general?

>> No. >> No. Okay. So, if you go to Ramseyolutions.com, look up smartvestor pro, we have smart investors all over the country that um that do it the Ramsay way, if you will. And so, they'll be able to help you not only just make that move, but hopefully tutor and look at your entire financial picture, too.

Um and just kind of get an idea. Um because yeah, there's always, you know, when it comes to these kind of things, always the tax implications and everything, but usually the smartest way is to roll all prior 401ks into an IRA.

>> Okay, >> good question. >> Perfect. Thank you so much. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Yeah, that's one thing, Jade, I feel like I have um learned and become more

and more uh a pro of is getting a financial planner in your corner. >> Yeah. uh when you're on baby steps four, five, and six and you are starting this process of building wealth and investing in retirement and all of it, having >> someone who does this day in and day out be able to look and to help with, you know, and in short, if you're still listening, you know, put actually investing those things in good growth stock mutual funds and good index funds, like whatever that looks like, diversifying and being wise about it.

Um, you know, if you have like one little investment and you want to do it on your own in Vanguard or something, you know, that's fine. But there's something about someone looking over everything, especially once you're debtree and you're looking to pay off the mortgage and you're far down the baby steps. >> Mhm. >> It is.

It's so helpful. >> Especially as you get I feel like as you get older, especially when you're thinking about maybe I can retire. What do I need to have in place if I think I'm going to retire early?

>> Yep. The estate planning and all of it.

So, yeah, Triton, great great question.

Hope that helps. And uh yeah, we'll see

you guys next hour.

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Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm Rachel Cruz and we are going to the phones. First up, we have Donna in San

Antonio. Hi, Donna. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for taking my question. I appreciate it. >> Yes, absolutely.

>> Okay, so my husband has a student loan

that is currently in deferment. It's been in deferment over 10 years. Um, but

prior to that, it was in default. It ballooned from 65,000 to 340,000.

>> We got >> Yeah, pretty scary.

>> I know. I know. There was some fraud involved. We tried to take care of it with some attorneys. We were not able to get anywhere. We're stuck with it. We got married four years ago. His situation is he's 66, close to retirement. He doesn't really have any assets, not really no any no savings.

I'm 57, probably going to work for another 5 years. I've got about 1.4 million in investment assets, which are owned free and clear. We both have a joint account

with Charles Schwab which has about 200,000 in it but it's fully funded by me and then we have two other properties in both of our names.

>> Couple of questions. How can I navigate negotiating this balance down for him?

I'm willing to pay up to 100,000 for it.

And how do I protect myself?

>> Are they private loans or federal loans?

>> So um they're federal loans. Gosh,

>> they they were they were well I believe they're federal loans. See, I've had trouble with this. They were federal loans and then they were consolidated.

>> Okay. >> Um so, and from what I understand, you know, I've been to so many different places and I keep hitting a brick wall.

It's like nobody can really give me the right answers.

>> Um I've been told I I can't negotiate.

>> If they're federal, you can't negotiate.

If they're private, >> um, you can, but if the whole lump of them, if that whole lump is federal, you owe what you owe.

>> So, what what's his best route? Um, does he just keep deferring it?

>> No. >> I mean, he he will never be able to pay these off. You know, he'll never be able to pay it. >> So, what tell me about the properties because I I'm going to here I'll tell you what Rachel and I are going to do and then we'll explain it.

We're gonna approach this as any married couple would who has dedicated their lives to each other and has decided that they're one, meaning that they're one in life, in money, and all of those things. And then we can go back and trace it back if we need to. But let's talk about these properties because what I think is somewhere in the assets between the two of you is the money to pay this off. Um, I'm just >> Well, there there's Yeah, there's definitely money.

I mean, we've only been married four years. All of those assets are mine. I

mean, I've done what I needed to do and I've built >> How many marriages have you guys had in the past, Donna? Is this Is this >> He's been married once before and so have I. >> Okay. So, it's both second marriages.

Okay. Did you do a prenup at all?

>> Um, no, we didn't do We have our wills,

but we didn't do a prenup. No.

>> Okay. What can I ask a little bit about that? Um, so I'm hearing you talk and it

sounds like you very much want to protect the wealth that you built.

>> Um, but you didn't sign a prenup, which makes me wonder about that. Like, how did you how did you view that?

>> I didn't realize how um, you know, I

don't know. What can I say? We're soulmates, you know.

>> Okay. Listen, that's good to know.

We're soulmates and and you know he's a wonderful man and I'm not concerned about really protecting my assets from him. I'm more concerned about protecting my assets against somebody coming in and swooping in a lender coming in and taking >> Got it. Okay. So, in that case, I loved hearing you say that because it sounded at first like when you said, "Oh, I'm only willing to put 100,000 towards this." It sounded like you were trying to keep your assets from him, right?

like you didn't want to spend too much on his debt. That's the way it sounded at first, but now it sounds like that's not the issue. And if that's the case, can you tell us about these properties? Cuz the money might be there to get free

and clear of this. >> All it's all real estate basically. Um and again, they're all owned free and clear, >> right? >> How much how much are each of the properties?

>> Um how much am I into the properties?

Probably, you know, five or 600,000.

>> So tell us probably around five or 600.

Tell us property one. What's property one worth?

>> Um, so I've got um a condo which is

probably worth around 200,000.

>> Okay. >> Um, I've got another house which is around 250.

Um, I've got another condo which is probably also around um 200,000.

>> Are they all owned free and clear?

>> Yes. >> Okay. Yes, they are. >> Good for you. >> You've done great. Donna, did you know about his debt going into the marriage?

>> I didn't. I knew he What happened is his

his wife, his previous wife handled all the finances. She was a stay-at-home.

She did some funky stuff with their finances and he did he thought his he thought his student loans were paid off.

>> He didn't realize until suddenly he didn't get a tax refund one year

>> that he was in default. He didn't even know. >> Got it. So it really was like a big shock and then you know he just sometimes men just >> ignore things.

>> Yeah. It was I think it was too emotionally overwhelming for him and he pretty much just put it to the side. So I knew there was something I didn't realize. >> How many years did he put it to the side?

>> Uh probably about 13 years total.

>> Okay. So there's there's enough of a um

that the shock has worn off and then we can address reality that he chose not to though, >> right? Well, now >> that's got to bother you, right? Does that bother you? Is that >> Of course it does. Of course it does.

Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

>> Um but right now I'm committed to the relationship. I'm committed to my husband. I want to figure out.

>> And you guys are in your what? 50. Did you say 57 and 66?

>> He's Yeah. Yeah. He's 66. I'm 57.

>> Okay. He has why does he have no what what's he been doing like like with retirement and all that?

>> He he pretty much uh gave everything to

her in the divorce

of other situations.

>> He he was like no contest. Just give her what she wants. >> Give her what she wants. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Um is he working?

>> Um he works for me actually. I have a business so he does work for me. Yeah.

>> Okay. How much is he making?

>> Um, we just have him making something like around 50,000. So, we've been keeping it low. You know, we do we do sort of um um you know, uh W2. We

>> Is real estate your business? Is is that your business? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um so, there's I I hear two things going on here. Um I think you're committed to this guy. I you know, great. I think that you need to reach over and probably sell one of these condos and then go into the joint funds and pay this thing off. That's probably the choice that I would make. I think you guys

>> I'm worried that

>> and I'm I'm going to say this ever so delicately. There's an there's a balance of power here that is >> feels off. And I think that if you don't

address certain things, it's going to cause issues down the line.

>> And I think you need to sit with a counsel. Do you see what I'm saying?

>> I think you need understand that completely. >> You need to sit with somebody and work through this because it almost feels like you're kind of just taking care of this guy.

>> And it shouldn't feel like that. You should feel like you're in a marriage where equal people are really contributing whatever it is they're going to contribute. But you should feel good about it.

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Heat. [Music] [Applause]

Heat.

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>> Up next we have Hannah in Missouri. Hi

Hannah, welcome to the show.

>> Hey Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> So, I am recently divorced with two small children. >> I'm sorry. >> I was married to a guy that's been married three times before. Um I was stupid. I was young. Clearly, clearly paying for it now. Um >> he has wrapped us into an insane amount of debt. Um and I can barely keep my

head above water. And I knew divorcing him that he would leave me with everything and not help with the children. >> That's exactly what he did. Um, sorry.

>> I It's taken me a while to try to figure out what to do now. Um, I am a nurse. I

have worked. Um, I have a pretty good job now. And I just I'm going to lose

everything. >> Um, cuz he's not paying for everything or helping me. And he's so sorry. and

he's doing it on purpose. Um, I have

$40,000 in business loans from his failed business because he talked me into the world and he did this to multiple women before.

>> I have $40,000 in student loans. I have a $60,000 car I'm left with from him because he had this lavish lifestyle and I just couldn't say no because we gave

him what he wanted until he was happy.

>> Okay, >> he has stopped paying for everything. I landed a pretty pretty high paying nursing job and it's pretty pretty good.

I'm right now I'm working two full-time jobs to try to get this stuff paid off while paying for child care by myself.

>> I live in a small one-bedroom with two small children just trying to get everything taken care of. And I don't qualify for chapter 13 bankruptcy or 7.

I qualified for 13 but at the highest payment plan which is what I'm doing.

>> Yeah. I have probably $200,000 in debt

and I don't know if I need to just quit my job and give everything back or what I did. >> No. So, this this was at this $100,000

the 40,000 loan, the 40,000 of student loans, 60,000 car that was after it was split amongst you.

>> That's that it was and he he was court ordered to pay these and he has not and he's still in your body else.

>> And they're still in your name. Okay.

>> So, the car who has possession of the car? >> I have the car was awarded to me.

>> Okay. And you said it's it you you have

to pay 60,000 on it. If you sold it today, what would you get for it?

>> 33,000.

>> Okay. And then the student loans, are those his student loans or they're yours? >> Those are those are mine. Okay. Those are mine. And it's about 40 40,000. It's nothing super, you know.

>> Okay. and the business loan, if you were to um if you were to force a refinance

on that to get him off of it, like is he

supposed to be paying that loan, but he's not, or was that awarded to you, the 40,000 business loan?

>> He was. He was. But I can go pay $10,000

to file contempt and then get money out

of a guy that he quit his job and he's on military disability.

>> Well, no, no, no. I'm not saying to pay >> I'm not saying you do that, but I'm saying if he if the court said that he's supposed to pay the $40,000 loan, but he's not paying it and your name is on it, you should be able to force him to refinance to get your name off of it >> because so that you can be free and clear. >> And what happens when you bring that before the judge? What happens?

>> I I have to pay another $10,000 to to go

forward with it. He just will not do it.

He won't do anything. >> Yeah. No, but the court can force it though is what Jade's saying.

>> I I guess I haven't done that. I I This is so new. I've been in a panic.

>> Hannah, when did all when did all this when did all this happen?

>> March of this year. >> Okay. So, yeah. So, it's fresh. >> Very new. Yep.

>> Yeah. >> And I say I can't modify anything for at least a year. So, I'm I'm just He just dumped everything on me in June,

>> including the children.

>> Okay. Yeah. Well, well, whatever the the

divorce decree says of what debts are

his and what debts are yours, and this 40,000 they said is his, correct? Even though your name's on it, but they through your divorce, >> that's his, right?

>> So, so yeah, I would I would contact your Do you have a lawyer still?

>> Uh, I do, but she just wants money.

She's not helpful at all. >> Okay. Well, maybe let's find someone helpful. um because >> $5,000 to to take it to to go forward

with this and I could just pay $5,000 to something and pay it off. So, I'm really struggling with with that. >> Well, if she's not a good if she's not a good attorney, find a new one >> and that's okay for you to do.

>> Yeah. >> Um and

yeah, what Rachel said is absolutely the case. You've got to go with what the courts have said and if he's not uploading, you know, upholding his side, you've got to you've got to force that into action. So, it sounds like the only ones that truly are your burden is the hundred,000, right? The student loan in the car. Is that if we're really talking about who owns what? Yes.

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, let's focus on that for now because today in this moment, you can't change the situation of the business loan. That will come. for now. And my guess my guess is that your credit is decimated anyway. Am I wrong?

>> Oh, it's just >> Okay, it's right. >> So then it doesn't m right now literally it doesn't matter, right? The damage is done and find find a little bit of freedom in that honestly that it can't get that it can't get worse.

>> Yep. You know, exactly. Y >> So I love that you're making a lot of money. You're doing so well on that side. You're able to, you know, pay for daycare. So, let's reorganize your budget and make it to where we're accounting for four walls first, which is you're making your rent, you're making sure there's transportation, you're making sure there's utilities, you're making sure that you're eating, right? That's number one. And then right after that, number five is daycare, right? Cuz the kids have to go to daycare so you can work.

>> Then after that, if there's still money, now we can start going down priority after priority hand and making sure that everything is accounted for. And if there's money now, we can start the debt snowball. >> Yes. >> So, are these the only two debts you have in the whole world?

>> Um, I have a credit card with like 7,000 on it and I owe $4,000 left to the IRS from back taxes and I'm making thousand payments on those each month. Just >> Okay. >> Okay. So, so let's focus on the IRS first. How about that? Like make it real small. >> How much are you bringing home a month, Hannah? >> Um, about 11,000.

>> 11,000. Okay, that's great. Yeah, you do have a great job. Um, you know, one of

the biggest burdens is this car, the $60,000 car, and it's um it's teetering

right there at it's unmanageable because how much is the payment a month?

>> 1300. >> Okay. So, >> yes, >> honestly, and I know your credit's terrific because the the >> the easiest way to do it would to go get a, you know, go get a $38,000 loan, pay

off the car, and then take 6,000 and go

get a crappy car just to get you back and forth to work and to daycare, right? I mean, like, that would be the ideal.

With the credit being shot, that's going to be really difficult. So, I'm wondering if there's a credit union or someone in your town that you can sit down and explain the situation, bring

records, you know, >> my sister is willing to to cosign or put

a car in her name under $30,000 if I just give this Jeep back, this r this wagon ear. Can I do that or am I going

to is it going to be a problem if I just hand the keys to the bank and walk away?

My sister will get a car for me and I'll make those payments. I didn't know if that was an option or if I'm going to pay for that in the future. >> No, because you're still going to be if if you surrender this car, they're going to take it and they're going to auction it and whatever the difference is on the 60,000 loan, you're still going to have to pay. >> Well, how did where did you get the $33,000 number? Cuz wagon ears are nice.

>> Yeah, but their their value is horrible.

>> Oh, is it? They go horrible.

>> Is that Kelly Blue Book during bankruptcy? Kelly Blue Book. Yeah.

>> Okay. Shoot. Oh, man. I didn't know that. When I see them, I'm always like >> I know they look nice, but they drop like a rock. They're terrible. Yeah, >> they have no value. When you when you turn them in, you are absolutely hosed with them. They're $100,000 and you'll get 20,000 for them.

>> So, one of my biggest goals for you would be um

twofold. The first one, and I think that this car is huge cuz it's $1,300 a month. I would exhaust everything because anything is better than you having you owing 38 is better than you owing 60 >> basically at just about any term >> 100%. >> You know, so see scour and find yes to

see if you can get any kind of loan to be able to pay off the difference and then get you a crappy car with it. But hey Hannah, hold on the line. Christian's going to pick up and we're going to get you with one of our certified financial counselors to walk with you cuz as a single mom juggling all of this um to have someone sit down and actually run the numbers longer than just 8 minutes of what Jade and I can do. Um we want to give that to you as a gift, Hannah.

And you're doing incredible.

You're incredible fighter. >> Yes. >> And we're here for you, Hannah.

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If you are wondering where you are on the baby steps or even how to keep track of your your financial situation and the baby steps, make sure to check out our quiz um to see your progress and you can actually receive a personalized plan just for you when it comes to the Ramsay baby steps. So, just go to the show notes and click the link titled, "Are you on track with the baby steps?" and complete the quiz. All right, we have Susan in Arkansas coming up next. Hi,

Susan. How are you?

>> Good. How are you? >> We are doing great. How can we help?

>> Good. My husband and I are on We finished all the baby steps. My husband's 67. I'm 61.

He is going to go into a partial retirement next summer and uh our net

worth including our home is about 3.5 million. >> Oh wow. Good for you guys.

>> But the 2.5 of that is you know not not

the home and a I guess a million of that is in brokerage and then the two point 1.5 is in um IAS.

>> Okay. So the question is um we have a a

son and daughter-in-law that live about 5 hours away from us in a very uh booming market and they're just having a growing family and it's just so important to us to be close to family and we're running up there all the time staying in hotels and being guests and all that and >> we are really wondering if it would be

wise to buy a small house maybe three

we're looking at there are some starter home neighborhoods for like you could get a we could get a brand new house for 350,000 um you know like 1,600 square f feet just something that we could stay in when we go up there. The thing is we are going to be probably relocating in about three years to to that city.

>> Oh.

>> So but you know but we have three years to be going back and forth and all that.

We want to be up there more because the babies are babies right now. Sure.

>> So, um you know, it's been suggested that we would rent maybe something for a couple years and then makes a big move in three years. But it's such a booming

market um that,

you know, when when we're not up there, it it would just be sitting in there. We'd be paying rent on it. But if we buy, we'd be we would be building equity. >> Yeah. How far away?

>> What is your >> How far away? >> About It's about five hours away. Okay.

And in three, what's the three-year mark? Is that his retirement when he's done fully?

>> Yes. So, he that's a step down retirement, you know, and so he'll be he'll be needing to be in our our town right now. >> Well, and you guys can cash flow a 350 a 350 home right now, right?

>> We could. Yeah. >> So, I would probably just do that.

Susan, I would not rent.

>> No. >> I would either just make just have a little hotel fund and know you'll be staying in a lot of hotels for the next three years and that's okay. Or I would just go ahead and buy it. >> And buy it. >> Yeah. Because it'd be trading one asset for the other, right?

>> What? What? >> It' be trading c it'd be trading some of our net worth right now for >> it would. But you're going to sell your home in Arkansas to move full-time in three years. How much is your house in Arkansas worth?

>> About a million. >> Okay, great. >> Great. So that's great. Then I would just >> put that in about our house is it's it's about 5 years old. It's brand, you know, but if we wait too long, it's not going to be brand. It's not going to be as new as it is right now. >> It's just three years, Susan. You're fine. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I'm not concerned about any part of this. >> No, >> you're not concerned about any of that.

I guess it's just I love where we are finally, you know, >> with the baby steps and all that. And >> yeah, I hear what you're saying. Yeah. >> Well, you're not taking any sort of a step backwards if that's the way it feels. >> You're just shifting assets from retirement to a home. And then when you guys sell your million-dollar home in Arkansas in three years, oh my gosh, >> that's going to be a nice chunk of change. >> You'll just put reinvest back in and keep on moving.

>> Yeah. And just move up there and sell fill the smaller house and just get the forever house, I guess.

>> Oh. >> Oh. >> So, you would sell the $350,000 house by your family and get a bigger, >> right? >> Okay. Then I would not do I'm sorry. I thought that I thought the home you're going to buy now is just the home you guys would retire. >> Me, too. >> No. No. >> Okay. Then I would not short-term thing.

Then I would not. No. You do not need to be in real estate for three years. No.

No. So I would just either stay with fa

stay with family, stay in a hotel for it's just three years. >> It's just three years. You can do this.

>> And then when you guys sell in Arkansas, I would move a million dollars from Arkansas, a million dollars to where you are and just >> just break even.

>> Okay. So don't don't do it. What if what if we would keep it as a I don't know

rental proper property or whatever. How how long is what's the least amount of time to stay in real estate?

>> I mean I'd say five >> five years probably.

>> Okay. Okay. Um, that's this is a

different question and I I don't So, if you bought the $350,000 house today, you

lived in it, and then the plan was when you're ready to live there full-time, that becomes a rental, and then would you turn around and buy the next house in cash or would you be thinking that there's some sort of mortgage on that?

Um, we would take the million that we'd sell in our current home, you know, and >> okay, >> and put another home in this other in

this other location is very expensive.

So, right down a little bit.

>> Okay. But you wouldn't take a mortgage at all. >> No. >> So, that Yeah. So, then that's just a question for you guys, Susan. If if you enjoy real estate, do you all want to be landlords in retirement? So, you know, that's I mean, I come from a real estate family. I love it. I think that that's so fun. like diversifying and all of that, but also Susan, you're going to get calls >> and >> you know John Yeah. John and Sue who's

written from you, their thing is they're you know it's broke and you and you guys are going to have to coordinate. I mean it's a it's a little bit of a job like you got so it's not an so it's not >> one thing about investments that's great is you put it in, you leave it and there's no hassle and you get the returns and you live your great life.

Real estate is a fun investment, but it's but for you guys, it's going to be less about building equity in the home itself to you, unless you guys want to sell it in 15 years, but you it may just

be more of a um generational >> property even. Um I don't know, you want to look longterm at it, but just know that the rental game, I think it's um it's fine, but usually where you make your money is not the rent monthtomonth, it's the equity built in the home.

>> Um is usually what you what you get. and buying um and usually you try to get a deal which buying a brand new home wouldn't be that you're not going to get that but you guys you could afford it so you're fine. So it' just be a question for you and your husband. Do you all want to be landlords >> um in retirement? >> So it just be it would be >> not you would definitely not do it if we were not going to rent it later.

>> Yeah. >> If we would if we buy buy it for three years, we would not do that.

>> Well, I think this plan would cause you to decide to make a different choice on the house that you might purchase short term. Yeah. >> Does that make sense? because you're gonna want to think about it as the rental later, not as the house that you're enjoying now.

If that makes sense. >> Yeah. Okay. >> But if you're not wanting to rent it out and be landlords, you're like, "No, that sounds like a headache.

I would not buy until you're there full-time >> cuz because a turnaround of buying a brand new home at 350 >> in 3 years, we hope it goes up. I I mean I don't know but there's always always that risk that you're maybe buying at the high end >> and then in three years everything kind of like softens a little bit and you end up losing money on it which we don't want >> um if that is the case because it is such a short turnaround. So, yeah.

patient and wait three years and then just buy the million-doll home and then the 350 stays in the IRA and you guys just continue on. Gota >> Okay. Well, that's a Yeah. Okay. Well, that's a great option. >> Wonderful. Thanks, Susan. Good question.

And what a what a great uh what a great problem to have. How sweet. Just so yeah, thinking through like the family and >> how do I want to spend my 3.5 million?

>> Yes, I know. I know. I mean, well done, Susan. Well done. But that is a um it can be a misnomer and I think real estate can feel um like a glamorous oh

my gosh sophisticated like I'm in real we're in real estate and we have investments and real estate investing you know it just >> it is a part and I think it's a it can be a great part and I think it's like if you're interested in it and it's what you love >> um you know we're not against it by any means but >> but it's not passive >> not passive income. That's right. Yeah.

And usually with it, what you're how

you're making your money is the equity of the home of the actual property. When you sell it, you make a lot. That that's the key. It's not always the monthly rentals. That's like, you know, that's not the thing that's going to do everything for you. It's really the equity that you're building in. But it's a great question, Susan.

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All right, up next we have Josh in Illinois. Hi Josh, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you both for your time.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Yes, so we've got open enrollment right around the corner and I am just trying to get as much counsel as possible uh when it comes to making a decision on healthcare plan. I have heard a lot of good things said by you and others about health savings accounts and we do have that option. We have a high deductible plan that has a health savings account and I'm just wondering under what circumstances, if any, would you recommend that someone not opt for such a plan?

>> Yeah, I I love a high deductible plan. I have a high deductible plan. I love the HSA for the obvious reasons. Um, the

reason that I chose it though was not because of the HSA, although that's a perk. I chose it because it really is the best health plan if you are healthy.

You know, you're kind of in that realm where I go I do my yearly physical. You know, I I pop in maybe one other time if you know, somebody has a flu or you you're not in the in and out of the hospital. You're not, you know, doing all of these um, you know, doctor visits. So, basically, if you're young and if you're healthy, yeah, high deductible plan is good for you. If you're a person who knows that you have health concerns or your children have health concerns, then you would benefit

from a plan that has a lower deductible, right? Because you know you're going to hit that deductible every year and so you don't want it to be astronomical.

But for somebody if you are healthy then that's a great thing because the likelihood of you hitting the deduct deductible is really low if that makes sense. So are you young and healthy?

>> Uh I I would say so. Yes. I I don't have many health expenses or anything like that and um yeah, I guess in my research with this um I'm reading a lot of good things about it and I just want to make sure that oh you know the the grass doesn't look greener on this other side and then I try it out and you know I wind up getting burned which you know that is one thing that I had known to look out for. You know if you're going to be h having constant health problems I can see how that works.

Does that make sense? >> All right.

>> Yes, it does. And um so yeah, basically if someone is young and healthy, they're not going to be experiencing a lot of problems that they're not probably not going to have to uh meet that deductible anytime soon. Um you'd say it's pretty much a wise decision all around. Yes, >> I think so.

>> And that's what I have too. And the HSA, like Jade said, is a perk that you can use um for health expenses.

you know, investment vehicle, which is awesome, too. So, that's another great perk. But, yeah, so if you >> Yeah, young and healthy uh high deductible plan, I think, is um spot on.

So, I I do not think you'll get burned.

Um and worst case scenario, if something changes down the road, you can change your plan, too. So, that's something to think about. Yeah, that's a good moment to talk about the HSA because we mention it and a lot of people maybe don't know what it is or how it can help them. But I actually really like it. Uh once you're in baby step four and beyond, if you're beyond the point of, you know, maxing out a 401k or even a Roth, it's a

great place to put extra money. You can invest it. I think you have access to it at age 62 as a retirement fund. It's either 62 or 67. Double check me on that. Yeah. But that's a wonderful thing. And of course, yeah, uh you can pull money out at any time tax-free for medical expenses, that sort of thing.

It's growing taxree. So, it's really a really wonderful deal there.

>> Yeah. So, if you have an option for a health savings account, an HSA, it's a great one to tap into. All right. Next, let's go to Austin in Fort Meyers,

Florida. Hi, Austin.

>> Hello. Uh thank you for taking my call.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Uh yes, so I feel like I'm drowning here. Um, I've I've got about I got

74,200 in debt. Um, I went from making a little

over a 100red to now I'd be lucky to make 50 a year. Um, >> what happened?

>> Well, my work slowed down. It's kind of

seasonal here from what I found out.

>> What do you do? >> Um, I work as a service adviser at an automotive dealership. >> Okay. And um it really slowed down here for a few months and I wasn't making enough to even um pay our bills. So I left and

went to another automotive company.

Turns out it was even worse and they took me back. But when they took me back, they changed the pay plan.

>> Oh gosh. To like penalize you cuz you left. >> Well, they changed it for everyone, not just me. >> Okay. Okay. I hear you.

>> Did you know that going in?

Um, the day that I started and I found out. >> Oh my gosh. >> Oh my gosh, that's strange.

>> Yeah. >> Was it just an assumption on your part?

Like, I'm just assuming I'll make the same amount. >> Yes. Yeah. Um, and I know season's about to pick up here soon. A lot of the snowbirds start to come back and that's where a lot of the income comes in.

>> Sure. >> Um, but it hasn't picked up yet either.

>> What? Let me go a little deeper on this.

What caused you to choose automotive? Is that was that like your field of choice or did you kind of end up there?

>> I just kind of ended up there. I've been in in there for seven or eight years now. So, >> okay. So, I think that this is a time

for a to consider the future like as a restart cuz I kind of feel like you fell

into this job. It was doing okay for you

and now it's not. So maybe it's time to

look up and go, okay, like what does what does Austin want to do? Like what do you want to be? And what do you want to continue to do? You know, where do you see yourself 5 years from now?

>> Mhm. >> And what I mean, if you >> How old are you, Austin?

>> Uh 28. >> Okay. Yeah. If if the world is anything for you, what would you what would you want it to be? If you could do anything to make money, what's like a dream?

>> I'd love to be, you know, a business business owner of some sort. Um, I did open a painting company. Um, I made

about 75 a year, but I need at least

around 100 to stay afloat. So, that didn't work out. >> Stay afloat because of the debt or because of >> Yeah, because of my debt. >> Okay. Do you Are you married with kids?

>> Yeah, I'm married. Three kids. >> Three kids. Okay. >> Um, how long did you do the painting business? >> Um, full-time about six months. I did

part-time, but I don't I don't really make much off of it. if it's part-time.

>> Well, I think that for 6 months of business, if you made 79,000, that's not bad.

>> Yeah. >> What if you continued? I mean, I got to believe if you continued, you would continue to grow that income. And 80 is not that far away from 100 that you're trying to get to when you're the one going out, you know, to quote Dave, going out, killing something, dragging it home.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I made it's 75, not quite

79, but >> I understand. But when when you're the one out getting a job and those jobs are, you know, 3,000 a pop or whatever it is, >> that's there's a lot more hope there that I can get to a number, right, than just waiting for somebody who's paying me, I don't know, $18 an hour to get there, right? >> So, >> I I don't dislike the idea of you

keeping the current job that you have now because it is money coming in whilst

you start up this painting thing again.

Because if you made 75,000 in 6 months,

you could surely go out and get a couple of clients and get that up and running in the next month or so doing painting jobs on the weekend or whatever your free time is. Am I wrong?

>> Well, that 75,000 was the average I was

headed towards for the year. I didn't make the 75 in that six months. I made about half that. >> That Okay. So, you never got to it. That was the projection. >> Yes. Yeah. Correct. >> Okay. So you were making you made 35 in 6 months, which is still it's not a bad side hustle.

>> Mhm. >> So why were you were you doing that just >> were you doing that on the weekends and at night? >> No, that was me. I I left the automotive business for for about 6 months to to do that. And >> so that was me full-time painting myself. >> Okay. Um yeah. So AA what I would do is

look at the debt. Um I would list out smallest to largest and attack the smallest one. if there's a car in there that you can sell uh to loosen up that 74. But I would be honestly doing the car during the day. I'd be painting in the afternoon. Yeah. Night and afternoon. >> And then, you know, maybe look for something else. Actually, hold on the line, Austin, and we'll give you Ken's book. Find the work you're wired to do.

Ken Coleman. Um just to kind of get those gears turning for you and maybe make some more income.

[Applause] [Music]

[Music] Welcome back to the Ramsay Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. Going to

the phones, we have Sandra in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Hi Sandra. welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you both for taking my call.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

>> Uh well, for the last uh six years, I

have been giving my son uh money

uh for for various reasons. First, you know, it was around the COVID shutdown

and um and he's not very good with money

and and then he stopped asking me for

money uh and then he started again. So, um, I've I've given him like around $35,000.

Um, and I I want to stop. I I want him

to do better, >> you know, and I don't know how >> to do that.

>> I've tried to talk to him about this, but he >> I'm his mother, >> you know, so I don't know anything or I know everything. Let's put it that way.

>> Yes. That's right. That's right. Um, Sandra, how are you financially?

Uh, I'm I'm I'm good. Okay. I have a a

good job and I have good savings for my retirement. >> Yeah. And how old is he?

>> 47. >> 47. Does he have a family?

>> Yes, he's divorced, but he has one child at home. >> Okay. And what does he do for a living?

>> He works in the automotive business. Uh,

but he works I'm not sure what they call it, but he it's a press operator, not an operator, but he does the upkeep on the

uh presses. >> Okay. And when he calls for money, is it

um what's his like what's his reasoning?

Is it a situation that happens? Is it um monthtomonth he just needs a little bit to cover the bills? Like kind of what's what what what does he tell you?

Uh well um he um had he he's filed

bankruptcy twice. So this time he uh he

did not have they they do a recon reconsolidation and this time uh it made him he pays so

much for that that he can't afford his bills, his food and his gas. So that's

what he asked me for. He he says I hate to ask you but but I need money for gas and food. What's caused him to file bankruptcy? Is it all consumer debt or is he going into business debt?

>> I No, it's not business debt, but I couldn't tell you exactly what it's for because he doesn't involve me in that.

And and that's okay with me. Uh I I

don't want to know, you know. Uh now I do know he had some issues a couple of years ago and he got sorted out with that, but then he had >> like like addiction issues.

>> Yes. >> Okay. Um, is he living out a sober lifestyle right now? >> Yes, >> he is. Okay.

Um, >> how long ago was the divorce?

>> Uh, about seven years ago.

>> Okay. Okay. >> And were the bankruptcies after the divorce? >> Yes. >> Okay. Were they mostly >> first one was after the first divorce and the second one was after second divorce? >> Oh, he's been divorced twice. >> Okay, that's right. I forgot. Okay. Oh man. >> Boy. Oh boy. And can I I'm just trying what I'm trying to understand about him is is he still out of control or is he a

person who was out of control and has done some work to start getting his life back on track?

>> Um I I don't know. I I can't talk to him

about these things. It's uh very difficult to bring it up >> for you or for him or for both?

>> Both. Well, if I I'm I'm fearful to bring it up because he Well, I haven't

brought it up, so I don't know. I I'm fearful about what he might >> It's going to pain you to hear it.

>> Yes, it's going to pain me, of course.

>> Uh-huh. I think that if he were

I think that if he were truly in a place where he's on the other side of this behavior and he's really doing the work to be well, I think he would be initiating those conversations with you saying here's where I've been.

>> Here's where I am now. Great point.

>> And >> this is a way that if you wanted to support me, you could. Right. I think that he would have the maturity to do that since it sounds like he's not. I I

don't feeling it still feels like a little bit of all over the place.

>> And that's the sad reality, Sandra.

>> Yeah. Of what you're you're hitting that wall over and over again of the reality >> that you can't change people. You could give him $135,000

and it's not going to help him. Um Yes, I understand. And so the hard thing is too is um enablers are always the

kindest people, you know, and so that's your heart, Sandra, and it's your son. You know, Jade and I both have sons. And I'm like, I you do you you want you don't want your kids to suffer. You want to be able to help them. And I think the question is, how can I help him the best? and throwing money at a situation

um over and over again because he's not changing his habits I think is a is a

difficult reality but it is a reality and again >> I mean you go to the extreme we don't want to see our family members on the street right I mean like so like like there's there is a natural instinct that kicks in and that and that boundary can be drawn you know however you want it to be Sandra but I think at the end of the day knowing as his mom and as as painful

as the decisions that he's made in his life are um you can't change that until

he chooses to change. And so what you could say Jade I think was on a really great track mentally as you as you were talking through it Jade because if he if he comes to you and maybe you can even say it to him right like you guys can have this conversation of I want to see healing in your life. if I want to see change and if you save up x amount maybe

Sandra you could >> maybe match that amount right or or I don't know what it looks like but at least he's on a road to self-sufficiency

because that's the best thing for him >> um and if you can help him get there because he is making positive progress then maybe you can but just throwing money at a situation when there's no change that's hopeless

>> so I agree Um

yeah, I this is a tough situation no matter how you slice it. And I think for you for the short term, yeah, the I think maybe the first thing you do is you maybe you open up those lines of communication and then you can better assess the situation. But it sounds like now is not the time to give him money, >> right? But he's his bis the business that he works at is slowing down. So he

was off last week for one day. So, it's

not there's never been a good time for the last five years. >> Yeah. Then he needs to go get a job. He needs to go work at Target or something.

>> But if you give him the money, he won't, >> right? >> Yeah. He's got to he's got to figure out how to self- sustain >> as a 47y old, you know. Um he's going to

have to learn that at some point. And um

and that's and that's a that's a hard reality. >> How old's the kid?

Uh she she'll be 15 in January.

>> Okay. Now, I would be concerned about her. Um if you're looking and seeing

that maybe she's doesn't have some of the things that she needs in a serious way, I might step in for some things to

help with her. Um and I would do that in a very protected way. Does that make sense? Like if you look if you look over and realize, oh my gosh, they don't have like the heat's not on or something like that. I might reach over and pay that that, >> you know, either have her come stay with me or just pay the bill directly.

Something like that. I could see um

wanting to help a minor. >> Yes, for sure. That there's Yes. a vulnerable child in the mix. And yeah, and she doesn't need to suffer because of his decisions if if you are able to help in that way. But setting boundaries, um, it can feel so unloving,

but it may be one of the most loving things you can do, Sandra, for him.

>> Um, and especially since you're wanting to stop, you you feel it in your soul that this is not helping a situation, >> and it's going to be so hard and there may be some verbal backlash, but man, if

you if you hold that strong and hold that steady, I think there's a level of wisdom and clarity that comes with that when you remove yourself from a situation. [Music]

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Okay, today's question comes from Madison in Colorado. She says, "My

husband and I just celebrated our third anniversary. We're debt-free and currently working on baby step three. We both work full-time and after saving our emergency fund fund, the plan is to save as much as possible before our first child is born. My husband is changing careers and wants to wait a few months until he settled into his new career with a better paying job so he feels more confident in providing for our future family.

I know you tell people not to wait until everything is perfect to start a family. I absolutely agree with that. But I also agree with my husband that it's important to have more financial stability before we start trying. I've never met a man who wants children more than my husband and both of us feel sad and stressed about waiting.

I would love your advice on this. Okay. I I personally love this question. Um first off, let me just say it is 100% your choice.

you my thoughts, but it's your choice.

It's your family. It's your life. Um >> I don't think there's anything wrong with family planning. Yeah.

>> And this is kind of part of that, right?

You're saying, "Here's what we want our life to look like." And the biggest part

of that is whether you both agree on it.

Um, and I'm saying that, my husband and I, we made the decision that we wanted certain things in place before we started a family. And that was something that we agreed on. And there were moments where I was like, "Do I still We It was like something we had to check back in on, right? Because for us, the

idea was, hey, we'll pay off debt and then we'll start a family. But we also knew that that was a long journey to pay off the debt. So, it was kind of like checking back in like, are we still good on this? Cuz it's 3 years in, are we still good? You know, so if you both agree and you both like the idea of

whatever that is, him making x amount of dollars or whatever that goal is, then that's fine for now. But maybe you set it up and say, "Okay, like every six months, we're just going to revisit this. that like it can change. Yes, >> life can always change. >> It can. And your desire for when a baby

comes and when you want to start changes, too. I know it did for us. I thought we were going to wait a little bit longer and then I remember being like, I think I'm ready now. I think you're ready sooner.

So, yeah, that and then I would also say to remember, you know, once you get pregnant, >> there's still nine months. So, he's wanting to change jobs now, right? And wait a few months. Well, that's you guys could be doing it simultaneously as well.

So, just remember that. So yeah, we always say around here, don't feel like you have to have you have to have a certain financial benchmark. Like we do not say you have to be debtree before you start a family or you have to have XYZ, >> have a baby when you want to have a baby like what Jade said earlier. But if you personally say no, we want to wait because of a time frame, because of financial goal, if that's what you want, that's great.

>> Now, there is one thing I will say about what you wrote, Madison. Um, and I'll say this is giving me a little bit of like a I don't know what when the fact that you said we both feel sad and stressed about waiting. That's the part to me that I'm like I don't know about that because for me it gave me more

peace to wait because I was like I feel better waiting until I'm in a better spot. I feel more stressed about if I were to get pregnant today. So, the fact that your emotions, and don't get me wrong, sometimes our emotions don't line up with what we're doing in a moment, but for something like this, I kind of feel like they should >> listen to what you're desiring >> and the and the fact is what you're desiring >> is okay to desire it and actually >> happen. >> Yes.

>> So, you're not doing anything wrong if you guys choose to move forward. I mean, you guys are debtree. It's an emergency fund. Like, >> you're fine.

>> You're fine. I promise you are fine and you will figure it out. People do it all the time. and all the time.

So, the fact that I think you're exactly right, Jade, the fact that you wrote that last sentence. >> Uhhuh. You should feel good about the decisions you're making. If you're not feeling good, make a different decision.

So, it's a good question that we get that we get that question a lot about, you know, when do we get married? When do we have a baby? When do we start a family? All of it.

>> Um, I love talking about it with George Camel because he's always like my practical friend because he's like, I mean, you can have a baby whenever, but it sure is nice to have a baby when there's no debt. You know, they say like, I get that. I get that. Yes.

Come on.

Like, you know, usually people are like, "We wish we had them sooner now that we know what we know." kind of thing. So, >> and your situation, I'm like, you're >> if there were a crazy situation, yours is not it. You know what I mean? Like, you're not like, I'm in bankruptcy and we have nine I want we have nine kids and we want to have a tent. I'd be like, what's wrong with you? >> Totally. Totally. Oh, so good. All right, let's go to the phones. We'll go to Jessica in South Carolina. Hi,

Jessica.

>> Hi. How are y'all?

>> We are doing great. How can we help today?

>> Um, so I have a um a a decision to make.

Basically, our baby is coming February.

>> Another baby question. This is great. We were just talking about this. >> I literally I know. And I'm like, um, I

feel like y'all kind of answered my question a little bit, but I don't know. Our situation is a little bit different.

>> Yeah, tell us. >> Um, we, >> yeah, so we have a baby coming February 6, and I think it's >> smart for us to just go ahead by that time, we should have enough money in our savings account to actually pay off all our debt, and we'd be completely debtree. >> Awesome. Amazing.

>> But we wouldn't have nothing in our savings and we have a new baby. So, I don't know if it's smart to do that or I have no idea. >> Yes. Well, what we always say is while you're doing the baby steps and if you are on baby step two and you get pregnant, you go into STO mode, meaning

you just pile up a bunch of money. You just save save, just pay minimum payments, stay current on everything, and just save money. And then when baby comes and mom is good, baby's good, you go right back to the baby steps. And so that's what you guys did, Jessica, which is amazing. Like you literally are the textbook example of okay, we're going to save and save and save and then once we have the baby, we have enough money to become debtree. Um,000.

>> Yeah. So, how much how much money do you guys how much will you make >> the first month the baby's here? So, let's say you took everything out and you paid off all your debt. I would still want you to leave $1,000 for an emergency fund, but let's just say you pay off all your debt. You have your $1,000. How much money will be coming in income-wise that first month?

Um the first month's probably about 10,000. Um >> yeah, because I would still be getting paid from my job, my my pay

and my husband. >> So Jessica, if you had no debt, >> okay, no debt, no payments, but you had to pay the rent or the mortgage, the lights, utilities, all of that. If you had to pay your necessities, how much would be left in your budget?

>> Um table, all that? Probably about two

Oh, uh 2,000 is our monthly expenses cuz

we paid off our house 50.

>> Oh my gosh. >> I know it, >> Jessica. >> Wow. Okay. So, so you would have $8,000

month one after the debt's paid off. So, you're fine. >> So, >> yeah. I'm trying to tell my husband, but I don't know. >> Well, even if you had to wait two weeks or get the paycheck and then pay off the debt, like you're still going to be plus you're going to be positive 8,000. Even if you wait two weeks to pay off the debt till the paycheck hits, you can do that. But how amazing, Jessica, congratulations. How did y'all do that?

How did y'all pay off the house?

>> Um, so yeah, it was just every extra money. I mean, I made commission most of my um young life. Well, you know, I'm 30

now, but most of my life, my job was just making commission and um and all that extra commission. You get those good checks. I just put it on half, you know. I didn't, you know, spend crazy.

>> Unbelievable. Awesome. Good for you guys. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So, yeah, if you wanted to hold your breath for 15 days till the next that paycheck hits and then you have your eight extra thousand, you could do that if that's if that if you got a new baby and you I get that.

If you are postpartum, you're three weeks in sleep deprived and you want to wait one paycheck before you pay off the debt. I am okay with that.

>> Wow. >> Okay. So, just kind of hold the money a little bit and so >> yeah, if you want to wait a month, that's fine. Yes. Yeah. You you guys are in a completely fine position. So, how much debt will you be paying off?

>> Um, so we have 45 um left and that's a

car and that's also my husband's pool.

So, >> and what's the house worth? Our house is

worth 220,000, >> girlfriend. That's what I'm talking about. Way to go, >> well done. Congratulations.

And with the baby, oh my gosh, having a new baby and all of this, you guys are just, you're killing it. And you're going to have so much peace. Like, what a beautiful thing. What a beautiful way to set up your life with these decisions.

You were making insane money in your 20s and you didn't do the insane stuff. You like literally did the boring stuff and paid off the mortgage >> and now you get to choose if you want to stay home.

Yeah. So many choices and options ahead, Jessica. So, we are we're cheering on you guys. Congratulations.

[Music]

[Music]

Up next we have Jocelyn in Dayton, Ohio.

Hi Jocelyn, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, thank you for having me.

>> Yes, absolutely. How can we help today?

>> Um, so I I made this huge mistake um

about I think it it was like almost it was like four and a half years ago. I was with this guy and um I took out

loans for him because he didn't have good credit. So I took out I know.

>> So I took out I took out a business credit card >> um which was one loan and then I took out a personal loan which he used to um

buy like vehicles for his business and then I also took out a golf cart loan.

>> Okay. So fast forward and then two year

two he was paying everything at the time when we were together but it was always minimum payments. So in reality it probably didn't really pay that much.

>> Sure. >> So then so then two years ago we split up and he promised me like he would pay

pay me monthly. We got a new um

girlfriend and then of course you know he stopped paying me.

So when I left him, it was at like it was between 50 to $60,000 that I owed

>> and I've gotten it down to 20,000.

>> Oh, good.

>> Jeez. Thanks. Thanks. I So I sacrificed

by moving back home like in with my parents and then I just worked a lot.

I'm a nurse so I'm kind of lucky there I can find a good job. >> Yeah. >> Um so I was always stuck between like filing bankruptcy or paying it off. So, >> obviously bankruptcy is not an option.

But, um, I always just wonder like if I should try to go back and sue him to get the money. People always tell me to, but when I've looked into it, it's kind of like a gray area because >> if you're if your name's on it, >> I'm sorry. >> Cuz if your name's on the loan >> Yeah. >> there's kind a little bit of a dead end unless there was some kind of contract that you guys had. Any type of legal documents? Did he >> No. No, there was no legal documents.

the only like I have text messages of course where he'll be like, "Oh, I'm going to pay you stuff like that, but nothing legal documents.

>> I mean, you could get a consultation to

see, you know, but I really think that

for you, you're so close to being done.

You've got 20,000 to go and you could

just wash your hands of this entire situation." >> The cars that he bought with the loan,

were they were the cars under his name?

Yeah, they were under his name and the and the golf cart. It was really >> And he has all of it. >> Whoever's listening to this, don't make those mistakes. I'm sorry.

>> Does he have Does he have everything? He has the golf cart. He has cars.

>> He has the cars. Um the the the cars he

bought with like cash. They were like they were like vans for his trucking company >> and they ended up wrecked. So that could have been a sign. Um the this is a disaster. The golf cart. Well, luckily and then the golf cart the golf cart um is is in his name also. So I tried to call the bank because the loan's in my name, but and this all happened in Florida in the state of Florida. Whoever's name is in the title, it doesn't matter who the loan is, the person in the title owns it.

>> That's right. That's right. Um >> yeah, I mean there it seems like there's nothing to even try to seize if you wanted to ask him and say, "Hey, I bought I I bought these cars. the least you could do is send me one so I can sell it and get some of this money, right? But I I just

It sounds like that's not even a thing,

>> right? I mean, he's he's he's awall, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Is he worth anything? Like, if like, let's just say, perfect world, you find um an attorney and they're like, "Oh, yeah, if you have text messages, we can prove this and take this to court and you can get your money back." Let's say they could. Could does he have any money? I mean, >> so that's the other thing is like cuz I was looking into it. I'm like I I mean

I'm sure I'm sure he has money but I don't know if like he would actually pay

me because when I look at online when they go to court like if they don't pay you they don't pay you. It's not I don't know

>> I think this guy is using women and I don't think he has >> and a part of me too Joselyn would say even if you even if that did happen and he did say I'll make you monthly payments he may be attached to you for the next eight years. You know what I mean? And there's a part of the freedom of like >> you just want it's a reminder every month that even if you're getting money from them, it's still like I'm a nurse and I can take care of myself and like >> I don't even want to be attached to this anymore.

>> they coined the phrase stupid tax here on the show of just things that we do, all of us do it, right? maybe at different dollar amounts and everything in different situations where you look back and you think that was so stupid and now I'm paying for it and >> um I think yeah I think that's the situation. I mean, that's what's so hard, Joselyn is. Now, if he was a good guy, he could say, "Hey, let's refinance and I'll put my name on the loans and get your name off of it, all of it." But >> he's just like disappeared into the wind.

>> Jocelyn, I hope that you >> I really hope that you allow this like don't >> as this lives in your mind, make sure you write the right story about it.

Like, I don't want you to look at this and be like, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe I did this terrible thing. I was so stupid. But I hope that you write this in your brain as this guy tried to break me, but I paid off every dime of this because I'm awesome and >> flip the narrative. >> Yes, please do.

Because so many people would have just >> I don't know, let that debt follow them for the rest of their life. Never fix it, wait on someone else come fix it for them. And the fact that you paid off 30,000 >> Yeah. >> so quickly and that you're like, "Listen, I'll just do the rest of it." I think that that's incredible.

So, keep going. >> Thank you. >> Please. Thank you.

>> Yeah. Oh, well, and I think like you said, Jocelyn, for everyone out there, >> um it's a good it's a good learning, right? Because you do you get sucked into a situation and you think and and they're believable. That's the other thing.

It's like, you know, you're not stupid, Jocelyn. Obviously, you're a very smart woman >> and you know, you get caught in a certain situation with a certain guy who persuades you in a certain way and you think, well, sure, you know, I mean, like good. >> It is what it is. So, um, but yeah, I'm I'm I'm proud of you for Yeah.

paying it off and and going forward with it, just like Jade said. >> Y >> All right, let's go to Evan in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Evan.

>> Hey, y'all. I hope you guys are doing good today. >> We are. Thank you. >> So, of course, uh, my question is, uh,

so I'm a college student here at, uh, Liberty University. Um, I'm working to be a corporate pilot. I also work, uh, part-time as a server. Uh, I've got about 4,000 in debt. Um, I've got about $300 to my name. Um, my car has needed

countless repairs over the last two years that I've owned it. Um, and one of

those repairs was about $4,000 to fix a

transmission that blew. Obviously, as a college student, I didn't have 4,000, so my dad was gracious enough to help me with that. Um, but in doing that, I've owed him about $200 a month um for

insurance as well as to pay that back.

I've asked him if I could pay the rest of that um after graduation and I'm able to work full-time, but he's kind of just said no. And it's paid about one quarter of it, so a little over a grand. Um >> he helps me with groceries sometimes and I'm very grateful for that, but I'm just kind of uh a little bit stuck. Want to be able to have an emergency fund, save up some money.

>> Yeah. >> Um, so I'm just trying to figure out what I should do in my situation.

>> Yeah. What's the $4,000? Is that um student loans?

>> Say that one more time. >> $4,000. Is that the transmission debt or was that the You said you're $4,000 in debt or is that student loans? So 3,000

of that is the transmission and then another thousand of it is on a credit card which I used for more expenses for the car that I paid for on my own.

>> Okay, I gota I got you. >> And how old are you?

>> So I'm 21. I'm a I'm a senior here at Liberty. >> Okay. Um there's part of this I mean I'm going to be honest with you. When I was in college, yeah, my parents were still helping me out with certain things that popped up. Um, and then there was a point where it's like, okay, you're graduated, you making your own money, you're out there, and then it was on me.

So, um, I I Yes, you need some breathing

room. Um, what can you let go? Like what

can you pull back on to kind of give

yourself a moment to just chill for a

second because it's like I feel like you're trying to solve all these problems at once and I don't know that you can. Is the pilot thing part of the Liberty degree or is that something totally separate and then you've got the server deal?

>> Yeah. So, uh being a pilot that that's my degree here at Liberty. Um so, you

mean just like pull back in like my spending? >> Oh, yeah. Well, you've got to I don't think now is the time to tackle debt is what you're asking. I think now is the time to focus on your education, pay the minimum payments for now. You've got a little bit to go. I think you need to focus on graduating and get out of here.

keep things at a level and then you can tackle that debt when you get out and start working. >> Yeah. Minimum payments. Stay current on everything. But I would just do that.

Yep. Just like what Jade said. And then when you get out and actually have a full-time job, then attack the debt.

[Music]

Our [Music]

scripture of the day comes from John 10:10. The thief comes only to steal and

destroy. I have come that they may have life and have it to the full. John Collins said, "The people who don't have

a great life are the ones who settle for a good life." >> Wow. >> There you go.

>> All right. Well, buying and selling your home, if you feel like it's a big deal, it's because it is. And with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there, it's really hard to know what's exactly going on in the housing market. So, we are here to make the latest trends easy to understand. So, median home prices dipped a little bit last month to about $426,000

and a typical season shift uh as we head into the fall. So, it's pretty typical to see that buyers have now more options and more negotiating power while sellers

face more competition. So, if you're buying out there, the market is in your favor. Mortgage rates dipped slightly to

5.5% in September, giving buyers again get again some more breathing room. But since rates are really unpredictable, the best time to buy when you're financially ready is right now, not when the rates drop. So if you are financially ready to buy a home and you've been sitting and waiting, get in the markets. And if you want to learn more about the housing market trends and to get free tools to help you when you're buying or selling your home with confidence, go to ramseyolutions.com/market

or click the link in the show notes if you are listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right. Uh up next we have is it is

it Gimma? >> Gemma >> Jimma in LA. Hey, welcome to the show.

>> Hi there. How are you? >> We're doing great. How can we help today? So, I'm in this unique situation where my employer will contribute 15% of my

salary into a traditional 401k.

>> Wow. >> Without me having to put any in. So my

question for you is when I'm done with baby step three and I do have a small

like a separate Roth IRA, should I

contribute the 15% retirement into the Roth or should I contribute it into the employer sponsored 401k.

>> Oh wow. I number one awesome company.

>> Yeah. Incredible.

>> So there's a couple of ways to think about this. I'll tell you what my brain goes to. Rachel, you tell me. Y >> my brain kind of thinks number one the 15% it's great to get in the rhythm of doing that because if you ever move from this job it's great to kind of set that habit of I put x amount of my income into retirement. So I do even though 15%

is really awesome I do want you to have your own skin in this game and so part of me would treat it maybe like a pension where I'm thinking of that as half >> and then I'm doing the other half and I do it into a wroth. That's where my mind goes. What would you do? >> Yeah. So, so you're there's no matching

at the company, correct? I mean, they're just they're just putting 15%. So, yeah.

So, our normal formula is match beats Roth beats traditional. So, since there is no match, >> I would what Jade said, I would go to the Roth >> and I would put probably I would put 15% of your income. Yeah, I think I would do the full 15 because the 15 going into

the IRA, do you have control over where that money's going that your employer's matching? So, that's good. So, that's that's a great thing that you have the control. Um, so yeah, I think I probably would I think I would just take that 15 that they're giving me as gravy.

>> All gravy. >> And I think I would go 15% of your income into retirement. And I would start with the Roth and you can put up to what is it this year? 8 >> uh 8,000 >> 8,000 I think. Yeah, so I would go ahead and max out that Roth and then um and

then go back to your 401k at work to

finish out your 15%. I think that's what I would do.

>> So you would put like seven and a half%

in the personal Roth and then the other seven and a half% into traditional >> Well, it depends on how much you're investing. So it's 15% of your income.

So I don't know what 8,000 of your income, what percentage that would be.

>> Oh, I get you. I understand what you're saying. >> Yeah. So I would go ahead and just like max it out. And if you have any percentages of that 15% left, I would go

back to the 401k and put the money in there. >> Okay. All right. Okay. Well, thank you so much. >> Yep. Absolutely. Gosh, that's >> that's a great great benefit. Oh my gosh. Not even having to put any money in and they're just doing it. That's great. All right. Let's go to Megan in New Haven. Hi, Megan. Welcome to the show. >> Hey, thank you so much for taking my call. >> Yes, you are welcome. How can we help today?

>> All right. Um well, a huge fan. Love the baby steps. Um always trying to get

better. Um but anyway, so um I'm calling

today. I'm I'm a single mom um by choice though. I had my daughter on my own. I'm 43. She's two.

>> Um >> I'm on baby steps four, five, and six.

I've got my fully funded emergency fund, no debt minus my house. Um I do my, you

know, 15% into retirement. And I am a

teacher, so I don't have um I don't have

any kind of match or anything like that, but um you know, doing the best that I can. Um I own my home. It's worth about

$425,000 and I still owe $218,000.

>> Good for you. >> Um I'm a teacher. Like I said, I make about $100,000 a year. Um so after taxes

and insurance, I bring home about 4,800 a month. Um so basically, you know, it's

like I have enough. The budget is tight.

Um but I have enough. It's just that I really want to change my family tree. Um I grew up with um family, incredibly loving, wonderful family who provided for myself, my sister, but zero like financial literacy. Um I feel like I've had to teach myself everything and like I said, I'm still learning, but I really want to set my daughter up for success. Um I learned, you know, I listen a lot about your um trying not to go into debt for

school, things like that. Um,

so you know, as a single person, I know

that like Dave talks a lot about, you

know, just the fact that if you are in a partnership, you're clearly going to make um, you know, growth quick more quickly than if you're single. Um, but I know that it's not impossible. Um, >> right. >> My my income is at the top basically. So

I do have um a little bit of a side

hustle um of conducting coral conducting

and then I have um the opportunity to

have a tenant. Um my father was living with us and was for the last couple years and was helping financially a little bit. He passed away on Memorial Day. Um >> so um yeah, it's been a big loss. Miss him a lot. Um, but with the with the

tenant situation, you know, and the side hustle, I could probably bring in about 120,000 a year.

>> That's great. >> Um, total total.

>> Yeah. Do you want to do that? Do you want to have a tenant? >> Is it like a attached apartment type situation or are they like in the house with you? >> So, it would be technically in the house, but like we would Well, not in the house. It would be like a basement um walk out basement situation.

>> Do you want to do that? because you're on baby steps four, five, and six. I mean, the the hustle is great, but it's not >> absolutely necessary unless you're like, "Oh, no. I'm I I want to keep, you know, >> I'm okay with it." I mean, obviously, it's got to be the right fit.

>> Yeah. >> Um it's it's small, so it would probably be great for like an older single person or doesn't have to be an older person, but I was thinking someone with a calm >> Well, someone that you feel comfortable with living in such a close proximity to you >> and your child. >> Exactly. Yeah. The trust has got to be there. are you concerned about?

>> Well, like I said, it's just so one thing is um you know, in terms of like

my savings, so I I as a teacher, I'll

have um my pension >> um and if I work as many years as I plan to, which I think I still have another 18 years or something, but I can collect 75% of my top three years. So, um, so one

concern I have is that I'm kind of at the top right now with my with my page.

>> Okay, Megan, we're running out of time. We got about 30 seconds. What's the one question we can help you with?

>> Okay. Um, so, can I still can I still

become a baby steps millionaire?

>> Um, help my daughter where you are.

Yeah. Well, Megan, I mean, honestly, the fact that you are so far ahead in the baby steps, the best way to help your daughter is showing the example of what to do and you are doing that. so beautifully. So beautifully. So your example first and foremost is everything. And then number two, you just keep working it. I mean, you have 200 left on the house.

>> Um you're making some, you know, great money as >> 2000. And then and then if you're going to do this extra side hustle, you'll be able to pay it down even faster. Um even with the tenant. So I think honestly you just kind of keep moving through it and it and it may look different paces for different people depending on their income, but you're doing um yeah, exactly what you should be doing, Megan.

I mean, honestly, I want you to be proud of yourself cuz you're absolutely incredible. So, keep it up. So, yes, you can become a Baby Steps Millionaires um as a single mom. Well, that's it for today, everyone.

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## 287. You’re Not Stuck You Just Need a Plan | May 1, 2026


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>> Normal is broke. Common sense is weird, so we're here to help you transform your life and your money. From the Ramsey Network and the Fair Winds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw. Next to me, Dr. John Delony taking your calls really for the next 3 hours. If you want to get involved, the number is 888-825-5225.

Gets you on the line. Ann is in Salt Lake City, Utah. Ann, what's going on?

>> Hi, thank you for taking my call.

Uh my question today is my our youngest son is going to be starting medical school in July this summer.

Um he's married and has a 2-year-old and then has his wife is pregnant. They're going to have their second baby in the fall. And our question is because of the changes in the federal student loan

program, they are not able to borrow enough money

to even really pay the tuition for the medical school. And so they're going to need to take out private loans.

And so our question is >> Please don't do this, Ann. >> whether we will >> Please don't do this, Ann. >> Hey, hey, let me ask you before you go any further with this. I want to ask you one question. Why do you think they put limits on it?

On how much they can borrow? >> trying to do. They're trying to get the the schools to change their policies so they don't require students to uh borrow

as much money. They're trying to get them to lower the tuition. Um but I think in this kind of in the gap, the the tuition isn't going any lower, right? It's right now. >> But the crux of the question is why do you think they're putting caps on how much students can borrow?

>> Well, I think for some professions that makes sense. He's going to be a doctor.

So I think >> question is And I want cuz I want you to think of this because this is going to inform my answer to you. Why do you think they're putting caps on how much these students can borrow?

Simply. >> Because they are able to pay them back.

>> Yes, ma'am. >> Yeah. >> Yes, ma'am. >> what kind of medicine is your son going to go into?

>> Um still deciding but he's working right

now um with a in a urology clinic and he's either interested in that or maybe endocrinology. >> Wow. >> So I I've got friends who are at medical school startups at universities. I've worked with medical professionals my whole career. That's that's just where I've lived. And I'm just telling you just parent to parent. My son is 16. I would love for him to be a physician. I think it's a great noble calling. It's a good good position I mean it's a good profession.

Um I would I mean he can do what he wants at his age. I would tell him do not borrow money to go into this profession.

And and that's that's me having friends that are physicians, working with physicians, working with medical education, and having a kid that I would love to see him be a doctor because

I don't know what AI's impact is going to be on in 1 year, in 2 years, in 10 years on

the need or the ability for that person who owes 5 600,000 dollars to be able to

recoup that. >> Mhm. So good. >> And a local pediatrician is not going to make 500 600,000 dollars especially with insurance reimbursements. A a a surgeon, they will. They'll they'll do great.

A a urology surgeon, they might. I And again, I don't I don't it all that is so region specific and >> Correct. >> all that, you know. But all that to say is um you and I, the world we grew up in

is the safest thing is go be a lawyer or go be a doctor. Like that's what we were taught, right? And

just look at what's happened to all the kids for the last 20 years who have been told go to coding, go get go get a degree in coding, go get a degree in in IT.

They're out of jobs. You know what I mean? Like they created the thing that's going to take all their jobs away.

I I cannot in good conscience is as

proud of your son as you are, as excited as he is, if a bank is telling you you're too much of a risk for us to give you this money to go around the bank and try to figure that out. Like the bank's whole business is I'm going to loan you this money and I'm going to make money on you paying me back. And if when banks say I'm not going to do that, this is too high of a risk, listen to what they're trying to tell you.

And I know I know I'm blowing up everything and that's not even why you called. I just got to tell you parent to parent, a guy who I worked in higher ed for 20 years, if they're saying we're putting the brakes on this, I would listen to to to why they're putting the brakes on it. And all I have to say is I I can't even more strongly I would say don't go get private private loans because those get people into so so much trouble. >> Yeah, it's it's really tough.

asked your question, but we wanted to we wanted to make you clear on what our stance might be. So go ahead and ask your question just so we can hear it with our own ears. >> I Yes, I guess we're just trying to you know, my my husband and I are we have you know, I'm 58, he's 61. We're

both working full-time. Our combined income is probably about 225,000 a year. We we have about $40,000 left to

pay on our home. Um and when my when our

our children were kind of going through their higher education process, we really weren't able to help them very much because of kind of the situation we were in, but we kind of changed that situation now.

>> Great. >> And so we're just trying to figure out how we can't cuz we didn't really contribute at all to his undergraduate education at all. He funded that him- himself.

Um and so we're just trying to figure out if we can if there's something we can do on our end. And and so what we were is that on the private loans if the interest rate is dramatically lower if we cosign on

that loan for him rather than him um

just doing that himself. So we were trying to figure out how to mitigate that risk. If we we had a couple of ideas of how to do that, but um >> I love that you're thinking in that way because I think that's as a parent you do. You want to look at ways to to lessen the load especially financially.

Um even if I did agree with debt,

I would never agree with cosigning.

So even if even even if I was a person who was like, "Oh, student loans are fine." I would still say cosigning, please don't do it because here's what's going to happen. You cosign a loan, you're on the hook for it. His name is on it. He's just starting his life with his baby, his family, his wife.

He might think this is not an an this is not something I'm interested in paying off right now. That's always going to be attached to you. So if you decide, "Oh, we want to move. We want to buy a house.

We want to do something that might involve our credit." You're attached to it. It's debt that's in your name and that is always has the ability to ruin a relationship.

If if if y'all have cash, Yeah. write him a check today. You'll I will high-five you to the moon and back if you want to support your kid through medical school. >> Even even if you can't do all of it, fund some of it with cash.

>> say, "Here's a gift. We weren't able to do this. We're going to give you this gift." But what you're trying to do is take the guilt you have from not helping in undergrad and you're going to put your relationship with your son. He's going to sit at Thanksgiving with y'all and y'all are going to be his lender.

>> Oh, and and and I can tell you cuz that's what me and my husband did. My husband's uh mother, my mother-in-law co-signed for his loans and she was the third wheel in our marriage for almost 7 and 1/2 years. >> Why'd you buy that car? Why'd you buy new Is that a new purse?

Why'd you Why'd you buy that? >> hear me say she is the the sweetest, most generous woman. Like there is nothing Like I can't say anything bad about the woman, but I am saying because her name was on that loan, that she was part of the marriage because when she was ready to buy a house, when she was ready to do things it was like, "When are you guys going to pay" in the nicest way, "when are you guys going to pay this loan off? Are you guys making progress?" Right?

Because it's her right to ask because her name was on it. She had every right to want to know about it, but as a result, it did become um at many times a point of contention and I just I hated that it was like that. Now everything's good, the loan's paid off, it's all gravy, but I hated that that's how uh we got off that that was the foot we got off on in our marriage. Um it didn't need to be that way.

You're probably not going to listen to what we said, but man, if it plants a seed of doubt in your mind, let it grow.

>> Statistics show that half of Americans

don't have enough life insurance or they

don't have any at all. I don't understand this, John. Why don't people want to take care of their family? They think they're going to die or something? >> Well, I used to be one of those guys. I didn't even think about it and one of my buddies said, "Hey, the only reason to not have life insurance is if you hate your wife and kids." And I immediately went and got term life insurance.

>> That's a gut punch. >> And oh, you're telling me and for for decades, Dave, I've sat across people who've lost a spouse, they've lost somebody important to them, they don't know what to do next.

>> Me too. I mean >> You're going to have a crisis here and you know, you got two options while you're sitting and talking to a young widow. She's concerned about how she's going to invest all this money properly and not mess this up or she's concerned how she's going to eat tomorrow. These are the two options. >> insurance can replace income, help pay for funeral expenses so your family can actually

have the opportunity to just be sad.

Yeah. To just miss you. >> That's exactly what it's supposed to be.

It's saying I love you to your family.

Term life insurance. Jeff Zander and the team at Zander Insurance makes it easy and affordable. I've used them personally for 25 years. They're the only people I trust. Go to zander.com or

call 800-356-4282.

>> All right, Haley's in Houston, Texas.

Haley, you are on the line. How can we help today?

>> Hi. Um, thanks for having me. Um, but uh

so I had a question um regarding my uh retirement um investments, I guess. Um,

I've been investing about 45 to 50k a

year these last several years and I'm I was wondering when I can maybe pull back

some on that um and maybe focus on other things like saving for a house or um just other life um events.

>> I mean, I want to say today, but tell me tell me more about your financial snapshot because just for those listening, she Haley's investing uh above and beyond what we would say generally um in the baby steps unless you're to the point of baby step seven where you've paid off your home and everything. So, what you're doing Haley is pretty awesome in the way of building wealth, but let's make sure that it's um in the right parameters of your financial situation. So, tell us more tell us what you earn, tell us if you have any debt.

>> Um so, I make I take home about 220-ish

a year.

Um and about 145 of that is like my

actual income and then I work overtime.

>> Okay. >> For the remainder. And then I do have 90k in student debt, which is the only debt I have. But right now it's on deferment. So, like they're like I'm on the save program and they're not letting me pay on it right now. >> Okay. >> So, I don't know. That's one thing I could maybe >> letting you. You can. You can pay on it.

>> Yeah, I can. Yeah.

>> Don't say they're not letting you.

>> Well, it's on hold and I'm on the PSLF

or I'm trying to do the PSLF program.

So, I'm not wanting to get out of that because then if I change into a different payment plan, it will mess it

up a bit and I'll be paying a lot more.

>> So, you're giving me some insight that I am grateful for it is informing what I think is the best route for you.

Um and and what I'm going to say is what John and I did, is what Rachel and George did. Um I'm sure it's what Dave would have done had he have had student loans. I don't know if he ever did, but um so, you make a really great income and you've made some what I would call smart choices. There's a you could have done way worse by, you know, investing 40 to 50% of your income. However, I would pull it back because debt is really serious. And around here we believe in

our in our whole heart that your biggest wealth-building tool is your income. You need the full force of your income at your disposal to truly be able to number number one, mitigate risk in your life. Number two, be able to build wealth. And then number three, be able to do it in a peaceful manner. Like those those are things that we really care about here. So, the number one thing that we're going to teach you is debt elimination.

Getting rid of the debt and then pledging to yourself that you will live a life without debt, especially consumer debt. And so >> Right. >> I would say the same thing for you. You know, Haley, I'd say, "Let's pause investing for a moment. You've done so well. Let's go back and let's just knock out these $90,000 of student loans." I mean, you're single. Are you single?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I'm single. >> Okay. So, are you telling me that if you lived on 190, you couldn't knock these out in a year?

Round number-wise?

>> Would you recommend maybe like not stopping investing completely and maybe doing like pulling back like 20K

and then putting that towards student loans rather than >> What's your fear of investing? What are What are you scared of? You're putting away a jillion dollars.

>> Yeah, what do you have already?

>> Um about 270 right now.

>> How old are you? >> But that's including my pension. Um I'm 30.

>> Yeah, I don't You're not going to believe me cuz this is deeper than like intellectual knowledge, but you're good.

>> Mhm. >> I'm I am way more concerned

Like that quarter of a million dollars in 30 years is going to be a whole bunch of money.

I'm way more concerned Uh can I just be a jerk for a second? Is that cool? Can I just be mean?

>> Yeah, that's fine. >> Me, I got two kids.

You make 200 and What did you say? 225?

>> 220. >> Okay. You make 220,000 bucks.

You have the ability to repay these student loans that you signed your name on. >> Mhm. >> You're choosing not to so that me and my wife are as part of our taxes are going to pay them for you.

Now, if you were If you were making 40,000 bucks a year as a assistant district attorney trying to help the least of these in my community, I'm all about that.

>> Right. >> Right? And so, like you signed your name to a piece of paper, you're making a like almost a quarter million dollars a year. Pay the debts that you said you were going to pay back and then get on with your life.

I'm way more concerned about your financial picture long term you holding on to these and and crossing your fingers for some government repayment program at which by the way may come through. It might. It might. Um they've ticked up they they've they have ticked up um how many they're processing and all that.

That's all good.

>> waited? How long have you already been waiting for this?

>> Um well, I'm on well, they've been on deferment for about almost 2 years. Um

but I'm technically almost 5 years into the >> You see what I'm saying? Like that's a long time to wait. And here's the thing.

Here's what's on the Here's what's at stake because I think this is this is beyond mathematics. You're you're clearly good with numbers. You're thinking about the future. You're thinking about wealth. No one's going to fault you on that. At least for sure I'm not. But part of personal finance, a huge part of it is is emotional.

We know we know about the behavior. We know about the the the numbers, but we forget the emotional part which is human beings want freedom. We want to feel freedom and we want to feel peace.

That is just who we are at the core. And so as long as this is taking up space in

residency in your heart and in your brain and in your mind, what's the like

why is that worth it for you? Especially Now, don't get me wrong. If you were making $40,000 a year and it was a struggle, I I can understand it a little bit more. But girl, you've got the means to pay this off so quickly.

This should have been gone. Like this should have been out of your life. And I would just hate for you to postpone the amount of freedom and autonomy that you can have inside on the inside because you can go out and buy what you want right now. But on the inside and just say yeah, to John's point, I signed for this.

Um how old did you say you are? >> 30. >> I'm 30. >> Okay, so you're 30 years old. You've already got uh 270,000 sitting in your

investments. Let's just say, you know, until the age of 60, let's pretend you didn't invest a single more dollars. Like you just were like, you know what? I'm not going to put nothing else in here. And we just let it grow cuz that's not going to be the case. It's already $7 million.

Okay? >> Wow.

I feel like it's not That's No, cuz my mind is like that's not real.

>> no, you're so young. It's cuz you're so young. And then if we just say, "Hey, she's going to spend 1 year and pay this off, and then she's going to jump right in at 15%," right? Because 15% for you

is about $2,700 a month. And let's just say, "Okay, we're going to start that at age 31 since we're going to take a year and pound out this debt." And then if I calculate it, you're at $13 million.

Do you think that's all right?

>> Yeah. >> Can you scratch by on that? >> Yeah, I think you can I think you can claw by, you know, on on the $13 million. And sure, we could do the math on, "Well, what if we added an extra year to it?" Okay, let's do that. Let's say, "Okay, let's let's account for the year that she just didn't feel like paying off the debt." So, let's add another year to it. Okay, it's $14 million. You know, you got a million more. >> Wow. >> But do you see what I'm saying?

>> Right. >> A million dollars is a lot of money.

There's time to make it up is what I'm saying, and then some. It's a year of time to get completely free, to feel like, "You know what? I paid my debts in this world. I did what I said I was going to do." I love that.

And then from there, the good news is, to your point, cuz I think I heard you talk about this, yes, you can pause after you pay off this debt, you can pause investing. You can pull back to 15% and and save up for your down payment.

>> Okay. Okay, so you'd recommend I completely pause, get the loan paid off, and then, you know, from there on do whatever. >> And and and Haley, this is just me. This is just me. I'm only speaking for John Delony here. >> If they come out next year and say all

student loans are forgiven forever,

I wouldn't be mad because for me it's an it's an issue of integrity. I signed a piece of paper that said if you all help me get through college, I'll pay you back. And I I did what I said I was going to do. And so, would I wish I had that money back?

Yeah, cuz I paid six figures back. But, I did what I said I was going to do. And at the end of the day, nobody can take my integrity from me. So, I I'm going to be okay with that.

Um but yeah, I'd get it paid off cuz it's the right thing to do. And more importantly, you've got the means to do it right now.

>> just something to be said about no one having to save you in life with money.

It is a good feeling to say I took my income, I paid my debts, I did what I needed to do, I got my own freedom, nobody had to get it for me.

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Des Moines, Iowa.

What's up, Sean? How you doing? >> Hello.

I'm good. >> How can we help?

>> Well, I want to know if I should continue to support my wife with her continuing education.

>> Tell us more.

>> Hey, so I'm 39. I'll be 40 here in a

couple months. She's a few years younger than me. She's worked a job for 10 plus years,

was let go about 3 years ago.

I stepped up and got a better job making

more income. So now I make, you know, $100,000.

And was able to support our family. She went to school. First was medical billing and coding, finished that.

Uh then she went for phlebotomy, finished that, then she went for medical assistant. And she's wrapping that up.

Um they're doing mock interviews. I'm not sure about that. She's only going to make about $20 an hour.

Uh we've got about $25,000 in student loan debt.

And I just don't feel like that is acceptable.

>> For the amount that you've spent.

>> Uh-huh. >> For the amount that you spent on these certifications.

>> Correct. I do see that the amount that

we're in debt equals about a year's worth of her income, but now she wants to go for to be a nurse, the RN program.

Um and that's going to add probably about another 20,000.

>> My big concern here is less about the education and the money.

My big concern here is

the way you're talking about her tells me y'all are not together on this at all.

Like >> No. >> You know what I mean? >> I want to sup- I want to support her.

>> But I know it to what?

Cuz I know perpetual students, I was one, who went to school a lot. So

one to get credentials, but two so I didn't have to deal with the real world.

>> Right. >> And it wasn't until me and my wife sat down and she was like, "Hey, what do you What's What are we doing here? Where are we headed with this?" Because these three these three jobs, she'd be a nurse by now.

>> Yeah. >> Right? But if she learned along the way, I like I actually like the medical field. I like doing this part of the medical field. I can become a nurse.

That's not a bad trajectory.

What's the thing beneath the thing here?

Cuz you sound frustrated with her.

Like like it's not acceptable. She didn't set the market rate. Y'all may not have sat down together and looked at, "Hey, we're going to spend this much money. How much is this job going to pay?" And y'all didn't do that calculation together. And that would be frustrating, but I would tell you it as a husband, you own that as much as she does.

Like supporting your spouse isn't just blindly writing checks. It's y'all are united on your decisions and here's why we're doing the things we're doing and here's the sacrifices we're both going to make together to get where we want to go. That's being married. But, like

you're blaming her, it sounds like.

You know what I'm saying? >> I'm not I'm not blaming her for it, but you're right. I I like that where, you know, where are we going with this?

>> Yeah. >> You know, what happens after the RN? You know, is there something else? Like >> Yeah, it sounds like you're worn out because you every time you think it was the end of the line, it it something else is the problem and now we got to go for the next thing.

Am I right or wrong?

>> I am. I I'm kind of burned out with work. I'm a truck driver, so being gone all the time and not being with my family all the time. I mean, I you know, not having that two income, you know, that that strong uh going forward, but I'm also optimistic and I like to look towards the future and that's why I agreed to the schooling.

Like, "Oh, yeah, like we we you know, we can both make it you know, six figures.

That's great." >> Would it help Would it Where did you get that number? You just made that up in your head?

>> Yeah, I think they said that she would be around like 76,000.

And I make I mean, I'm at 40,000 right now as of this week for this year. So, I think I'd make about 110 to 115, realistically.

>> Would it help if you took Obviously, in the past it sounds like you took out student loans for the education. Would it help you get on board with what she's trying to accomplish if you said, "Hey, I'm for this, but we just need to cash flow it. I don't want to go backwards financially to make this happen." How would she feel about that? And how would you feel about that suggestion?

>> So, being that at my age right now, I

don't have any retirement. Um and that's and that's been my main focus, like the main thing on my mind, is I need to to get my 401k built up.

>> Okay. >> Um I don't want to I don't want to work for the rest of my life. I actually do want to retire. >> Right. Okay. >> But, right now as far as I cash flow it,

I I just don't have the means,

um paying for our entire household off of just one income. >> How long have you guys been married?

>> 16 years. >> Okay. And this is Is this the first marriage for both of you guys?

>> Yep. >> Okay. Tell me So, okay. So, here's what I hear, and John, jump in at any point.

It's almost like for 16 years, I don't know what you guys were doing, but now all of a sudden it's like we got to lock in, and it's you're ready to lock in, but she's almost still like finding who she wants to be. Um and I I mean, I'm playing the field on this because I agree with you. There There does come a point where it's like we need to make a decision.

Um I feel you on that. I also feel you on not wanting to burn extra money because there are fish to fry, like retirement and making sure we're paying off debt.

So, it sounds like a really kind of come-to-Jesus uh meeting needs to happen with you and your wife where it's I need to understand the the career hopping. Do

you know where it is that you're wanting to go or are you still feeling like you're in experiment mode? Like tell tell me for real. Like tell me what you're really thinking so that I can understand where you're coming from and we can take some time and like cool out on that and then come back together and really talk about it. But understanding where she's at and her understanding where she's at is going to be paramount on this. And she may not know.

>> And and and I want you to redefine

the word support.

I'll take Kelly Daniel who um is the producer of my show.

She supports me in that show.

She supports me by saying, "Hey, you did this really well." And she also supports me by by helping create a vision for where we want to go with it. But she also really supports me when she says, "Hey, you blew that.

That's not support. >> Mhm. >> And so support is you at my buddy Will Guidara says every He's one of the world's best restauranteurs and he says every shift the the the wait

staff goes and fills up their pitcher so they can spend the rest of their shift making sure everybody else has water.

That's support.

But they can't first start by supporting all of their all of their customers if their pitcher's empty.

And so you have to look at expand your definition of support is I'm not just going to blindly say yes, yes, yes to everything. Support looks like, "Hey, let's take a half day. I'm going to take a half day off of work. I'm ahead of schedule financially this year.

Where are we going?

Who do we want to be? What do we want our house to feel like?

And right now this debt is scaring me to death. I would love for you to be a nurse cuz you could be a nurse into your 70s. And hey, I will take parts of nursing away, but it won't take the human contact away. Like that's a thing y'all she could do for a long, long, long time. And maybe we can't afford that for the next 2 years. Let's settle into this phlebotomy job or whatever for 2 years.

But support is I'm going to be honest and put everything on the table and let's co-create a vision together.

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Back to the phone lines where we have Nick from Sioux City, Iowa on the line.

Hey Nick, how can we help today?

>> Hey guys. Just wanted to call. First off, big fan of the show. Thanks for taking my call.

I listen to it all the time.

So, the reason I'm calling is I'm a small business owner. I've got about nine employees now and my main guy

is uh he's great guy, works hard, shows up every day, but I think just made a lot of poor decisions, you know, when he was kind of younger and getting started. He's only about probably 28, 29 years old. He's got four young kids.

Um you know, I remember he was buying some vehicles from some used dealerships and probably paying, you know, top dollar and not getting good interest rates and, you know, probably probably spending more than what he should have out of the gate. Um over the last several years, I've

he's came to me and said, "Hey, I'm you know, I'm short. I'm I'm not going to be able to make my house payment. I'm not going to be able to make my car payment. Can I borrow some money?" I've always lent him money.

Just slowly took it out of his check.

Um you know, as as the weeks and months went on after that.

Uh he's to the point now where him and his family are down to one vehicle.

The other he has a loan on that vehicle.

He has a loan on two other vehicles that he doesn't even own anymore. He had to turn them He had to basically give them back to the bank cuz they were broke down and he couldn't afford to fix them.

>> Well, when he keeps coming to me for money all the time, I feel bad and I'm like >> What's going on? >> Hey, oh yeah, I'm like you work your butt you work your butt off every week, man. Like you work, you know, 60 hours a week. >> think is What do you think is going on?

If you If you really I mean, not in a gossipy way, but if you just had to say like, "You know what? I think da da da da da." Like what do you think's going on over there?

>> Well, I I think part of the problem is and that may not be a problem, but I think he's a person who's just not really motivated by money. It just It doesn't It doesn't, you know, do anything for him maybe. Some Some people are just like that, I guess. >> right.

Uh-huh. >> He's He's pretty laid-back. So, it it just doesn't really bother him. I I I don't And And that's the thing.

And that's honestly why I'm calling because the last thing I want to do as an employer is is get between one of my guys and their significant other. Like I don't I don't want that at all. >> Yeah.

and you know, I actually bought him a truck. I I bought him a used truck to let him and I just gifted it to him, you know, so he titled it everything and and now that's having some problems and >> You're not You're not helping You're not helping anymore, Nick.

Um >> I just got to cut the cord. >> Well, my my my good buddy, Henry Cloud, he he wrote a great book. Um but one of the first stories in the book is a family that came and they had a a

young adult kid who kept asking for money and asking for money and they you know, the family came to him as a psychologist and said, "Hey, how do we help our kid?" And he's And he said, "The greatest gift you can give your kid is some problems." And that sounds heartless, right? But

for a guy that doesn't care about money,

he'd care He's going to care about having a roof over his family's head.

And until he feels that and you keep bailing him out, and by the way, you're you're making it worse for him to come to work every day. And this sounds counterintuitive because you're not just his boss, now you're his bank.

And that shame he feels every day he feels it even heavier. >> Mhm. Yeah, that's that's eventually going to lead to one or two things. He's either going to leave leave the company because he can't handle it and you're going to cut him off.

And so he's either going to be mature and go, "Yeah, that feels right." and that's good and he's going to keep working there or he's going to go, "I can't believe this guy cut me off." and he's going to leave. >> He's going to blame you for his bad decisions.

It's rare in my world where somebody is

great in every aspect of their life except for one sliver.

I have to believe that a guy that handles his personal finances this way, that handles his home this way, his marriage, his kids this way, that has to impact your business. >> Yes. Yes, it does, Bobby.

>> I'm sorry, say that one more time.

>> So it's very rare in my world that somebody has everything in their life together professionally and just when they get home everything's a dumpster fire.

This has to bleed bleed into his work, right? >> Uh >> Maybe not. >> I I I mean I I run a I run a small construction company, you know, so he's he's directed by me every day.

Um you know, I I I feel two things. One,

you know, I I don't like seeing somebody work that hard and you know, struggle to that point, especially I rely on this guy. I mean this is my main guy. >> Yeah. >> And but at the same time uh

I I I just I'm like, well, he can't get to work.

>> Have you tried Have you tried Have you tried >> Have you tried gifting him the gift of knowledge versus money? Have you tried you know getting him on with some of the Ramsey products or anything like that?

Financial peace. >> I >> Every dollar. >> I should probably try to do that and push that a little more. I I've I've always been very cautious. I I try not to ask too much. I try to just kind of stick to the You know, I just don't want to get I don't want to get too personal. I don't want to seem like I'm pushing.

>> Well, you've already been personal. >> Yeah, you've been When somebody comes and asks you for money to pay their rent, it's personal now.

>> Oh, I I get that. I just I understand what you're saying. I >> We've already ventured into that. I mean, at this point, if I if I were in your shoes today and I think this is where we're at with this call, yeah, I'd probably I wouldn't wait for him to approach you again. I would approach him and I'd say, "You know what? I've been thinking about your situation and I think I made a mistake. Um I I really

wanted to help and I gifted you money and I did all this. I think that was the wrong move on my part. I really should have shared with you some of the things that have really helped me and that's a great on route for you to say, you know, here's the plan I follow. Here's a great podcast.

Uh I even, you know, here's every dollar. I was able to get you this one to get you started. Um and and and use the line that that we use with folks. Say, "If I give you the If I gift you this, will you do it?

If I gift you uh this Financial Peace and this Every Dollar, will you promise me if I if I give you the Total Money Makeover, will you read this book?" And and and pose it to him like that and just say, "Man, I don't want to see you struggle. I I'm I'm grateful that you shared with me what's going on, but I don't think me giving you money is the answer anymore and I'm not I can't keep doing that, but I can give you this." And then that way you're helping him, but you're also pushing him out.

Like, don't don't come over here. >> He's asking me for money anymore. >> Ramsey Solutions even has a HR benefit called Smart Dollar, which is which com- giant companies use and small businesses use it, but it's a way to teach employees. Uh a close friend of mine is the CFO of a um a landscaping business and he realized a lot of his guys were blowing so much of their money and they were struggling at the end of every month.

And so they got SmartDollar for the team and it's like, "Hey, as a company, we're all going to do this. We're going to learn these these principles. But you've got some great data, which is I've given you a truck, I've given you money multiple times. That's not helping.

And um I can help you here. And hang on the line, we'll send you a copy of Total Money Makeover, I'll send you a year of EveryDollar, um we'll send you the digital Financial Peace University product, we'll send that to you. And you can just turn around and gift it to him if you'd like to. But man, you've made it personal by getting into his finances.

And so when somebody comes and asks me for one-time help, done, easy. Somebody keeps coming back and saying, "Can I borrow some more money? Can I borrow some more money? Can I borrow some more money?" We're going to have a deeper conversation, a um a bigger conversation.

>> Well, yeah, because at that point, it's what we would tell anybody.

>> issue. >> Yeah, and and putting a band-aid on it, it it's it just it does not work. And I

think that enabling calls are probably some of the toughest calls we deal with because you do, you want to help. As a as a human being, if you're you know, any sort of conviction inside of you.

>> you have a pulse. You feel guilty and you want to help when you see somebody else hurting, you want to help them carry that burden. Like that's just who we are as people. I think we just have to be careful of how we do that and make

sure that we're not making it worse.

>> Yeah. >> And rarely is throwing money at a problem the solution.

If somebody needs to eat today, done.

Throwing money at that problem will solve that. They they'll get a meal today or a place to stay tonight. Like 100% I'm all about that. Um but if somebody keeps coming back and coming back, the greatest way to help somebody is to peel is back up 30,000 ft and if somebody's struggling, they got two cars they're paying on that they don't even have anymore and a third car plus the car that you gave them is falling apart.

Man, you got bigger issues. It may be that as his employer, hey, I'm going to pay for 10 counseling sessions for you and your spouse. I'll cover that. And or I'll pay for 10 financial coaching sessions or something with Ramsey, but man, um yeah, I I I would not loan somebody I care about money. I'll either give it to them or we're going to have a bigger conversation.

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>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. Let's go to Alexis, again in Des Moines, Iowa. We got two calls from Des Moines. What's going on, Alexis?

>> Yes, I'm calling cuz I'm trying to get my husband on board and we have three mortgages. >> Woo. >> So, we're a little bit of a mess.

>> On the same house or three different houses?

>> Um well, two houses and then a mobile home, the best one.

>> Okay. So, tell us uh tell us how much you owe

on each house and what it's worth and do the same for the the mobile home.

>> Okay. Tennessee home is 147,000.

Um it's worth um probably like 340.

>> Okay. >> Um mobile home probably worth 60, we're

underwater. >> Um in Iowa.

>> Okay. >> probably owe 63.

Um Iowa main home, primary home now, we owe 257

and it's probably worth 290.

>> So, you could sell your Tennessee home that in a state you don't live in and clear both your debts today.

>> Technically, but his family member lives there. So, he didn't want to sell.

>> But, that sounds like his family member's problem.

I don't want to be I don't want to be cruel. That's I know that sounds cruel.

What why why are do y'all own a home and you're paying a mortgage on a home that your his family member lives in?

>> Well, they pay rent. So, it's a rental to them now. So, they do cover that one.

>> How long's the lease for?

>> Um it's yearly. They want to do longer and in hopes of purchasing it. So,

>> Well, that's not an option. But, I'm just saying like what's the lease the immediate lease for?

>> Till September. >> September. >> So, what's your big question? How can we help? >> Um so, he's also had five different jobs

within the past year cuz we had to move back to Iowa cuz my my has dementia and to help with her care.

So, if he doesn't like a job, he quits and get another one. But, he makes more than I do um from work cuz I work a job

that doesn't pay as well.

>> What do you make? >> So, um I make 41.5 from work. Um he makes

about 62.4 >> Okay. >> um due to his pay decrease. And then, we have money that come in from our military service. So, we're disabled veterans. >> How much do you get from that?

>> Um probably about 17K. >> Okay. So, what's your month look like?

On a monthly basis, how much are you bringing in?

>> On the low end, 12.5. On the high end, if we include like the rental income um

back child support that I receive and other miscellaneous, it could be about 18,000. >> Okay. So, there's there's a lot going on here. You know, when you called, you're like, "Oh man, we're a mess." And it's actually doesn't it's not as bad as I feel like it sounds. I think you guys have a lot of money coming in. It just sounds like there's disorganization.

You've got the income there um and you've got assets that you can sell to really simplify this really quickly.

Um I think you just feel disorganized and unorganized. So, what I would do if I were in your shoes is come September, I would let that family member know uh in in as few words possible, basically, we've got to simplify our life and part of that means we've got to sell this property. And so, in September when the lease is up, you'll have to move out. And I know that you had dreams of maybe buying this place.

Right? And so, I would say that. And then, you know, that's there's a $193,000 in equity there that you need

to get your hands on. I think I missed it when you said the mobile home was worth 60 Did you say you owe 63 on it?

>> I owe 63. I'm not exactly sure how much it's worth if it's a 20 25 like I just bought it last year. Cuz >> Okay. >> Who'd you buy it for?

>> Huh? >> Who'd you buy it for?

>> Um it was for us so we were renting and then the cost of rent and then I thought it'd be easier just to purchase that cuz I with our cash flow when he was making more money it just seemed like I could easily pay that off quickly and then just >> And then he quit his job and then y'all went and bought another house?

>> He didn't quit his job. He So he was living in Tennessee, I was living in Iowa so we were living in two states cuz I had to get here quickly to help with my mother's care. Rent in our area is still high for what you're paying for old homes and stuff like that. So to me it didn't make sense to just be paying rent. I was like I'd rather waste it on a mobile home. >> Okay. >> So but you don't need it anymore.

that. So he So then I just got the mobile home in my name. Right now our son that's in college here and then our older son, they live in the mobile home right now.

>> Your sons? >> to get their life together. Yeah.

>> Okay. So and how old are the sons?

>> Um one is 20 and one is um Well one's

21, one's 19. So >> Okay. So what I would do with the sons are Do they have jobs?

>> One is on medical leave from work and then the other one he's a college student so he doesn't have a job.

>> So I would say to the sons I'd say again same same narrative Your dad and I we've got we're trying to get organized we're trying to get our financial life together. We've made a couple mistakes.

Part of writing that writing those mistakes is we've got to sell this this mobile home. Um and so your options are you can hang

out you can move back in with us for a couple of months and then you've got to figure out an apartment or if you're going to live on campus.

And that would be what I say you and you've got to get a job so that you can fund an apartment for especially for the 21-year-old. For the 19-year-old, yeah, you can extend I think you can extend more grace there, but you can't you can't keep this this mobile home that's going down in value every single day that you have it. That really I don't think if you sat down let's pretend that you were just living in the Iowa house, you didn't have the Tennessee house, you didn't have a mobile home, you're just living in your house as it is now.

Let's buy them a mobile home.

I don't think you would make that choice. I think you would probably would have said they need to get a job, maybe we'll help with an apartment, right? I think your train of thought probably would have been down a different line.

And so what I want to challenge you to do is be very intentional about what

stays in your life by default versus

what you actually want it to look like.

And right now there's things in your life by default the the the trailers there by default. The Tennessee house is there by default, right? So that's what we're trying to do to get organized and go this is not actually what I want.

Let's get that out of here. Let's get the next thing out of here and then let's take that money and actually pay down some debt and and create some security for ourselves.

>> And it it seems like you're two hard conversations away from cleaning up your life.

But it seems like y'all are doing a lot of gymnastics to get around those two uncomfortable conversations and in the process you're making your own marriage really uncomfortable, right?

>> Yes, he doesn't agree with selling the Tennessee house like he's fine with keeping it so he's like creating a plan to pay it off.

>> Again, ask him the question I asked you.

I want you to go this this is your homework. You have two pieces of homework for me. The first homework is look on Kelly Blue Book or look to however you sell campers or trailers find out what the thing is worth and get it on the market. That's piece of homework number one.

Homework number two is I want you to pose the same question I posed to you to your husband and say, "Hey, let's just pretend for a minute. Let's be intentional. In an effort to be intentional, let's pretend that we were just here in Iowa. We never had a house in Tennessee.

We never had that.

another state, specifically Tennessee, and choose to buy a rental there with the intent of a family member moving there? Would we choose that?

And just wait and see what he says, because I guarantee the answer is no.

And that's going to help him see that this happened by default, which means we don't have to stay there. We can make changes and do things on purpose.

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>> Let's go to our Ramsey Show question of the day.

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Remember, it may not be available in all states. >> Today's question comes from Melody in Connecticut. She writes, "I've been married for over 40 years and I've always managed our household finances by myself. When we were young and broke, it was my responsibility to worry about budgeting for groceries, bills that need to be paid, etc.

My husband recently retired and opened up a separate savings account solely for his social social security deposits. I do not have access to those funds, so my paycheck now has to cover the mortgage, utilities, car payment, and all his incidental spending.

Jade, I'm getting pissed off this week. >> I Me too. Me too. >> He just expects my paycheck to be enough. How do I get him to understand that without his income, I can't cover everything now?

My gut tells me, "Tell him, we don't have enough money to make the make the bills." But my gut

also tells me you've tried that.

>> He don't care. >> And he don't care. >> Uh-uh. I I think he has made What What

This is your phrase, John. People speak in actions and their pictures. What is it? >> Yeah, we think in pictures, but we speak in I mean we speak in words, but we think in pictures. And so >> But he's He His actions are speaking very >> is a language. >> That's what it was. Thank you. Behavior is a language. He has said, "I don't care, and I care so less that I

am going to separate myself from the whole over here and do my own thing on the side." That's what I'm getting from this. >> did that 40 years ago when he said, "I don't care. You figure it out." And he's left you to manage the whole house like a coward for 40 years. "I don't want to deal with reality. That's your job. I'll go make the money, and then

the day he retires, he's like, "Cool, this is mine now." >> Yeah. I I mean, she's right to be concerned about that. She's right to be frustrated by that. >> Yeah, frustrated, concerned.

She's right to be enraged by that.

>> you. You're right. I was being I was being light light-handed.

>> Enraged by that.

>> Yeah. >> I I I Gosh, Jade, here's the thing. I speak to

so many men who are awesome, and they are busting it on behalf of their families and their spouses and their kids and guys who are going to counseling for the first time in 30 years and guys who are patching stuff up with their dads and their and their aging parents.

The when I read these, I get overly mad.

>> Oh, yeah. >> Because it's such a coward, unmasculine, unbrave way to do life.

To just cash out of your own life and put all of this on your wife as you've done for 40 freaking years. Um Melody, I

hate to tell you this, but um you have a spouse that doesn't care. Doesn't care about the stress you're under, has never cared for almost a dec- I mean, almost half a century. Doesn't care that y'all don't your math doesn't line up. He wants to do whatever he wants to do.

Doesn't care for whatever. And this is going to sound petty. I don't know a way outside of an honest conversation, "Hey, let's look at the bills together." And I'm assuming you've done that. I don't know another way to deal with this kind of thing than to deposit the money in your account and start Venmoing him or start asking for him to pay bills.

Cuz that's how he's living anyway. >> Yeah. Yeah.

off in a certain area, um whether it's they keep all the money to themselves or they're, you know, keeping money to the side or whatever that is. And you can always tell that this has been a pattern that's been going on for a long time. And when I hear that, I'm filtering it through, "Oh my gosh, if Sam Warshaw ever tried it, like it'd be unsolved mysteries. Like it just >> texting me in the middle of the night saying, "Hey, we need to hide a body." >> Exactly.

Exactly. And so what I want you to answer, John, in in in in a tactful way is how much of this is um it's easy to point at the in this case the husband and go, "I can't believe he's doing that. Oh my gosh, this guy this guy this guy." But how much of it is the other spouse who's been allowing a certain type of behavior to persist? Like where does that pendulum fall on what we allow versus what we get?

>> At the end of the day, and this is the hardest thing about talking about marriage, the only person you can control is you.

to say, "For 40 years you have made me

dot dot dot." >> Mhm. >> The honest thing is for 40 years I have chosen to carry all of this weight for the house. >> Like you're participating. >> I've participated. And so in that feels

like victim shaming and blah blah.

What I what I want people to hear that as is an empowerment.

>> Yeah. >> I chose this. I wish I hadn't have chosen it, but I did. I won't choose this any longer. And

so no matter what you're going through, you there will come a moment a loss of a spouse, a loss of a child, a horrific incident at work, whatever.

A loss of a job. At some point the question emerges, what are you going to do now? >> Yeah. >> And if you get to that question and you immediately start to loop over again, but they did and they then you're just going to spin your life on on on the on the rinse cycle.

At some point Melody has to say, okay, what am I going to do now? Am I going to keep doing this for the next 20 years of our marriage until I die? And resent the last 20 years? Or am I going to make a change now? And that change may cost you

the image of the marriage you think you've been propping up for half for half a century. >> Right. >> It may be that this guy has been out for

years and you're just going to make it concrete. It may be that when he realizes this is kind of I'm I'm kind of

lame. Like I had my little pity party when I retired and this is not how spouses do life together. Yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't realize how bad it was or whatever. And Melody has to be honest about has she blown things out of proportion for 40 years? And we we don't have any money.

We do. >> Right. >> Yeah. >> Um and he's just like whatever. And so all that comes into effect, but your question is a good one.

Everyone who comes to me and say, "Hey, I want to work on our communication and marriage." What they're asking me is, "How do I get my spouse to do what I want them to do?" And someone's like, "We need to learn how to fight." It is, "How do I get them to do what I want them to do?" >> Yeah. Yep. >> The hardest quest the hardest answer I always give is you can't make them do anything. The only thing you can do is be the best version of yourself in your marriage.

And that means I got to be honest about what I participated in and I got to be real honest about what I'm going to do next. Period. I wish it was more complex than that, and I know that's it's simple, but it's very complicated. I wish it was more it was harder than that.

It's that simple for melody. >> And and I also think there's got to be if you truly want to be happy, and I'll add this on, and and you can tell me if I'm wrong. You You also have to do what you're going to do without an expectation from them.

If you're like, "Man, I wish my spouse would be more servant-hearted towards me." So, all the time you're like, "Would you like a glass of water? Would you like me to Right? You're You're doing all these extra things hoping they'll do it back. >> there's an ROI on it.

>> Yeah. And then when they don't, now you're you're still getting like resentful and angry on the inside.

>> who are thinking about getting divorced, give yourself 6 months to be the best version of yourself. And that's the person who is looking past the dirty laundry to say, "Hey, I saw how hard you're working at work. Thank you for being in this house." That is the person who looks past the extra 10 lb or the past the the gruff or the eye roll.

It give yourself a chance if you're sitting at a divorce in a divorce attorney hearing that you know I showed up as the best version of myself. And if you can do that, and your spouse says, "I'm not interested in being married to you." >> Wow. >> It's going to make it hard, but you'll have inner peace cuz I did the best I could. >> You'll know.

>> Don't show up to the table being like, "Well, yeah, I I did do whatever." So, and almost every time when two people decide I'm going to be the best version of myself so I can be in total service to my spouse, and they do it back, ain't going anywhere near a divorce office, right? Because y'all are building the life you want to have. You build the marriage you want. >> And and the hard part with all of this is when you truly are the best version of yourself, you're doing the best you can.

>> It's scary. >> putting yourself out there every day.

>> spouse may say, "Don't care." >> Don't care. Don't notice. Don't care.

Ooh. >> And but I'll tell you this, when you're going as is Let me go back to like something as silly as high school sports.

It's easy to be like, "Well, if I had just worked out, I would have been faster." Whatever. It's scary to put all the work in and still be seventh place.

>> Oh, man. >> Right? >> Yeah. >> But you you stop running cuz you're like, "That's That's as best as I can do." >> I did my best. >> my best. And so, Mel asked yourself not "What does he get?" Ask yourself "What am I going to do now?"

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>> Mark is in Fort Myers, Florida on the line. What's up, Mark? How can we help today?

>> Hey John, hey Jade. How are you guys today? >> Doing all right.

>> Great. So, the reason I'm calling is my

father and mother-in-law um they just moved down to Florida about almost 2 years ago and after he retired.

And you know, after speaking with my wife, um they're going to be out of money in about 20 months.

>> Ooh. >> Um >> How do you know this? >> been big spenders. I know this because my wife, who's actually a financial planner, she finally just took over for them. They never wanted to use her in the past, and now they have, and now she's got all their information.

Um And anyway, they've always been big spenders, never paid off their mortgage in all their big earning years, and now it's not looking so good. Um so, I'm

really just fearful that they're going to come to us in time and and need financial help. So, I'm just not sure how to really navigate that.

>> So, I I think >> Or maybe what discussions need to >> Yeah, it's a great question. I Let's Let's just you and your wife get together and run the exercise.

Like they call us. What are we going to say?

Cuz you can't control them. The only person you can control in this equation is you.

And so, assume they're going to call and ask for money and have a pre-agreed upon

message from you and your wife as to what we will and will not support.

>> Do you think your wife and you do agree on what that message should be, Mark?

>> We do, and when we have talked about it, um her and I are in complete agreement.

And I think the most frustrating part is that he So, they moved into a community, and he's on the HOA board, like and he's working almost 40 hours a week not being paid. >> Yeah, but yeah, but like you're

>> You can't control that. >> Yeah, your compassion is real, dude, and I want to honor your compassion for your father-in-law. But what you're doing is you're taking his choices and and potential future

issues and you're dragging them into your present and you're the one dealing with them. Or as they say in AA, in AA, you're drinking poison hoping he gets sick.

You know what I mean? And so what I'm not going to do with the precious time I have with my wife on this planet is spend time worrying about other people's decisions. Especially if we've already aligned on our our response to the

consequences of their decisions or their potential consequences, right?

That's anxiety. It's grabbing a potential outcome in the future into the present and trying to solve it now.

That's just a it's just a recipe to ruin today. Doesn't solve any of their activities or actions, right?

>> Okay. >> And so yeah, he's making idiotic choices. He's making bad choices with his money and he's using he's trying to build reputation in his local community.

A, I get that. If he just moved to a new place, he wants to be on the in crowd and get to know people. I get that. And also, he can't afford to do that, right?

But if y'all are already aligned on what your response will be, you've you've gone further than most married couples do. So I applaud you for that, man. Now your choice is to look at your wife and say, "Hey, what kind of fun can we have today?" I don't know the other option other than just to choose misery on a problem that you can't solve. >> Well, I'm curious.

Your your wife is, you know, they've they've given over the information to your wife. She's helping them. Surely she has said to them, "Here's what I'm finding. You got 20 months left." And I'm sure she's made some suggestions.

>> Yeah, they Yes, she has and he just keeps saying, "Oh, I have a plan." And we're like, "But what's the plan, dude?

Like, you're not telling us." And so, we just don't really know. >> How old are they?

>> Um he is 69 and she is the wife is like

60. >> Okay. Are Are they with it? Like, are they Is Is everything still full capacity? Is it possible that they have money or assets that you guys don't know about?

If they say If he says, "I have a plan." or "I'm fine." >> Yeah, there's the other side. What if you just trusted him? Cool. They got a plan.

>> Yeah, I I guess you're right. I don't know of anything, but >> You get to choose Anything that you're thinking right now is a story you're making up. All right? >> Right. >> And so, let's let's deal with a potential bad story and let's choose to make up the most positive version of this story. That's not being Pollyanna.

That's not being in denial. That's just saying I get to choose which one of these things I meditate on every day. One of these stories that I make up is going to let me sleep a little bit better and the other story is killing me. It's going to give me a stroke and it's not going to change his financial habits at all. I Dude, I totally get your frustration. I mean, I get it deeper than you can possibly imagine. I won't talk about it on the air here.

And at some point, you have to decide I'm not going to strangle myself and lose oxygen here over a problem I can't solve. >> Yep. >> I will have it I will have an answer for what comes and so be it. Jade, we were just talking about this off air.

If you and I and all of our teammates here on the Ramsey Show, if we could just get people to

if we could empower people to hear this message, you can only control you.

>> That's it. >> I think I literally think the world changes. >> Absolutely. >> say that in a in a every man for himself, but like take care of your house. Take care of you and take care of the problems that are already in your lap. Don't create new ones and drag them in to your lap.

And if other people want to go do wild stuff, I don't like it. I'm I hate it for them. I hate it for us, but I can't do anything about it.

>> have to attach yourself to it or it it doesn't have to become the conversation that you guys circle around every night when you do dishes. >> Yeah. And maybe once a week, all right, 30 minutes. Let's just >> Get it all out. And we just rag on it. How could they do this? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. >> And then we're done. >> to dinner. >> I LOVE IT. UH THANKS FOR the call, Mark.

I wish it were different. Let's go to Scott in St. Louis, Missouri. What's going on, Scott?

>> Hi. How you doing? >> Doing great.

>> Excellent.

>> Let us have it.

>> Okay. So, I I'm in this predicament

where um I my friend from Primerica, I

just started buying Roth IRA um

uh you know, with with him. >> Yeah. >> And um he's telling me that um Okay, so

I have an investment property in Las Vegas and I have a house here in St.

Louis. Um I want to sell the investment property in Las Vegas and I'll come out with about 250,000.

>> Uh-huh. >> I want to pay off all I The only two debts I have left are my Jeep and my

house here in St. Louis.

>> Okay. >> I can pay them off and and be you know,

scot-free, step seven, you know, on top

of the world, you know, but yeah, but my

here he's telling me I'm the stupidest guy in the world because my mortgage rate is only 2.85.

>> Get a new financial adviser, dude.

>> All right. >> Get a new one. >> He's He's forgotten that there are different There There's multiple components of money, right? We get caught up on the dollars and cents.

We all know about numbers. Then there's the behaviors. You You need to budget. You need to avoid debt, and then there's the emotional sense.

And we talked about this earlier. So much of money is emotional. It's how we want to feel. We want to be free.

We want peace. It's who we are. >> He doesn't have He's not going to have to deal with your peace. He wants the arbitrage.

>> Yes, sir. Yeah, he wants to give me a put He says, "Take that 250, put it

towards an some kind of annuity >> Dude, fire him today. Today.

Today.

>> Okay. All right. >> Today. Well done. Because here's the thing.

Bro, I'm telling you. I've been on both sides of this equation.

When you sleep in a house that nobody can take from you.

>> Yes. >> I will pay 3% in what I call a sleep tax on what my mortgage is my interest rate is versus what I could be theoretically getting in the in the market.

I will pay that sleep tax every day of the week because no one can take my house. >> And >> Oh, that's awesome. Thank you, sir. I I love that. >> And there's >> I really love that. >> And there's the other part of it where if we do want to get into some facts and data, we can. We've done the largest study of millionaires here at Ramsey.

There So much time was put into this study, and we found that when we look at millionaires, Baby Steps millionaires, net worth millionaires, whatever you want to call them, it was clear that these people they valued paying off their houses. They paid for their homes, their home residences. They were They were maybe purchased with a mortgage, but it was a priority to pay them off to where they had that ownership, they had that peace. And so that's something that we know.

It's not just an emotional thing. It It shows itself in the numbers as well when we look at Everyday Millionaires.

You tell them what your goals are, and they lock arms with you to accomplish your goals. They don't call you stupid and try to sell you a product.

>> We talked about it on our last call with Scott, but if you need help with investing, you need a good SmartVestor Pro in your corner. Someone who's going to listen to you, right? They're not going to sit back there and tell you that what you're doing is stupid and not explain it to you. You don't want that.

Our SmartVestor Pros are registered investment professionals who lead with the heart of a teacher.

Hear that? Heart of a teacher. And we've been connecting listeners to them for over 20 years, which means these folks are going to sit down with you, they're going to listen to you, they're going to teach you. They're interested in you understanding so that you guys can work together.

SmartVestor Pros can create a plan to help you reach your goals and help you make informed investing decisions. We'll show you up to five SmartVestor Pros in your area for free, and then it's up to you to vet them, you can interview them, you can decide which one you want to work with. Go to ramseysolutions.com/smartvestor to find an investing pro near you, or if you're listening on YouTube or podcast, go ahead and click that link in the description. >> Hey, real quick.

Uh we were talking about this off air with brother Scott there for that last caller.

>> I did, too. >> I I always try to be compassionate here, so I'm going to put myself in the seat of his financial advisor.

And I have a client that comes and says, "Hey, I'm going to I'm going to sell a rental property that's in another state, >> Uh-huh. >> Um, and I'm going to get $250,000 of equity.

I want to pay off my house and pay off my Jeep. And it's a logical question.

What's your interest rate on your house? 2.9. >> Uh-huh. >> Okay, I can get you the market returns the last two years have been 23%.

>> Mhm. >> It It can feel financially foolish to do that. >> Yes. >> And if you're looking at a calculator, I want to honor that that investment guy on the other side of the table.

You're right. You're right. >> And I think that's where if you are walking into it with a financial professional, whether it's what somebody you found in the in the yellow the yellow pages cuz I'm 180 years old, um, that you found online or that a SmartVestor, I think it's important to come in and say, "Until I don't owe anybody anything, I'm solving for peace. And then we'll start solving for return." >> Yes.

>> I get what you're saying. I appreciate it. By the way, I will never ever ever ever put my money in in an annuity. I know that you make more money on that.

I'm not going to do it.

do get There is a math problem here where you you think what I'm doing is foolish. And mathematically, I'll even agree with you. >> As for me and my house, we're solving for peace. We're solving for not owing anybody anything. And then we'll start playing the the calculator games.

>> Yeah, John, I'm glad that you said that because that is so true. Um, when that guy when that guy called in and he said, "Yeah, my invest my investor wants me to do this." My first my first brain goes to well, yeah, like there's a lot worse you could do with that money, right? And and I want to remind people listening, we have a method that that works and we have a a way of thinking around here and it's not just numbers. We're always factoring in the person.

We're factoring in who you who you are and how we how you want to feel. >> Yeah. >> Right? And that's been a theme, throughout the show, even just today, where we're trying to solve for people's freedom.

We're trying to solve for their peace. And that goes beyond mathematical equations. Math is certainly a part of it. Numbers, of course, we're talking about money.

Behavior is part of it. We talked about that before.

So, when you sign up for the Ramsey plan, yes, we're giving you a series of seven baby steps. Yes, we're telling you to budget. Yes, we're telling you to live on less than you make, but it's all so that and it's so that you can have It's not just building wealth, but it's having this life of peace and it's being able to give like no one else so later you can give and live like no one else.

Like that's the whole part of it. And so, peace is at the core of that every single time. And so, you're going to hear that theme throughout the show when we answer people's questions.

All right. I love that discussion, but now we're going to get to Jen who's in Scranton. Scranton, Pennsylvania.

How can we help Jen?

>> Hi John and Jade. How are you guys doing? >> Excellent. Chilling. >> Ridiculous. We're running a scam called a podcast. It's the best.

>> Uh that's funny. That's funny. Well, I'm hoping that you can help uh my husband and I settle a disagreement.

>> Yes, my favorite.

>> Yeah. >> Not that you guys are disagreeing, just I like this type of call.

>> Awesome. Um our question is should we be on the hook for part of the student loan debt that our son accrued due to bad advice that he received from us when he started college when we ourselves didn't know any better about taking student loans.

>> Great question.

So, you advised him to take out the student loans back in the day?

>> Yes, we did and I don't even think he was really ready to go to college initially. So, he changed his major a couple times and there's some health issues thrown in there as well. So, he's racked up um about $60,000.

Um luckily, he's graduating in June um

with a Bachelor of Science in Supply Chain Logistics and Transportation Management. Um you know, he's he's job

searching. Um I don't know if he's necessarily the most motivated to job search right now. He is working full-time. Um but he I don't know. I I think

morally because we gave him the bad advice and we kind of pushed him to go to college >> Uh-huh. >> before he was ready. I kind of feel like we're on the hook morally for that.

Um my husband, he's uh been in the trades. He never had any student loan debt. I myself was I'm a teacher, so I

have a master's in teaching, so I got some student loan debt um from you know

for my for my profession. Um I have I've since paid it off and whatnot, but um so I thought that you know our son was just doing the normal thing. >> Yeah. >> So we're graduates of the >> Yeah. >> Do you have any money? >> The big question is money. Do you all have Could you write him a check for 30 grand today? >> No. So here's here's the deal. Um

we're graduates of Financial Peace University. We're currently finishing baby step two.

Um we're going to have $113,000 of consumer debt paid off by June.

Um so then we have our >> Yeah, this coming June. Yeah, so we're we're just Yeah, so we're really close.

Thank you. Um so I don't know. What do you guys think? Should we be at some point helping pay it back or >> I want to say something mean, okay? Is that cool? >> Okay. Yeah, it's totally cool.

>> So and we >> And my husband's here right now with me, too. >> Oh, nice. >> What's What's your husband's name?

>> His name is Mike. >> All right, Mike. We hear you on the line. Come in at any time. >> Okay, so here's I have this conversation a lot with folks who call the show and they want to go into ministry.

And they they went and got a degree in something and not necessarily a dumb thing. They got a degree in business and they took out 70 grand and they called and they say quote unquote I feel like I'm being called to the ministry.

Right? Or I want to go do this other thing.

And what I always tell folks is you dug yourself a hole

that you have to with integrity refill

before you start living into That's why we tell people to don't go into debt, right? Because then you're faced with these moral dilemmas and you regardless of if you think you morally have an obligation to your son, you don't have any money.

>> Yeah. >> And so you can't.

And it might be something that you sit down with your son and you say, "Hey, we're this old and we're still wrestling with debt. Um we want to walk alongside you and so in 5 years or in 10 years if

you've paid off this much, we'll be in a position to help you." This like something like that. I >> Okay. >> Jade and I may disagree. I like the way you're thinking.

I wouldn't make it so caustic as you've as you like it's not a moral failure, but I do love the Maya Angelou quote like do the best you can and when you learn more, do better, right? Like change what you know.

We'd eat orange slices, right? It's madness. And my parents didn't know any better. None of the parents did.

And so we'd be like, "I need some water. I'm dying." And they're like, "No water. It's bad for you, right?" And so as a parent, you do the best you can and then when you know better, then you sit down with your kids and say, "Man, I I messed this up and so here's the next thing going forward." Um and so when it comes to money, man, yeah, your your kid took your advice and now he's 60 grand in the hole and yeah, I I think it's right for you to say, "Hey, we gave you bad advice.

We don't have any money. We're working to dig this thing out and we're going to like man, the quicker you can get this paid off, that'd be awesome. And if we get in a position where we can help you, we're going to." >> And I would. I'd I'd treat it like the baby steps.

You know, you pay off your debt, save up the 3 to 6 months, start investing and when you get to baby step five, if you want to say instead of putting money towards a 529, which is what we would and should have done, we're going to put that towards the debt payments and help you run this thing back. I I actually really love that idea because that's probably what you would have done if you had a little bit more time, right? You would have put a a certain amount aside every single month to put towards his education.

And it's not too late to do that. It's just going to have a little interest on the side. >> it's on the back end. >> Well, and probably he didn't just take out loans just for tuition, room and board.

He probably took out the full loans and had his fun, too, right? And so some of that he needs to have some skin in the game, too, I think, also.

the idea of you saying, "Hey, we gave you bad advice and so we're going to be a part of paying the piper on this, but he has to have some skin in the game, too."

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio. I'm Jade, this is John, and we're going back to the phone lines where we have Mark in Charleston, South Carolina. Hey, Mark, how are you?

>> Uh good. How are you?

>> Doing good. How can John and I help?

>> So, um I was really close to I was $300 away from being financially uh debt-free aside from my car and mortgage, and then uh a bad life event sent me spiraling down, and I have recollected all of that debt back. So, I'm currently um including house and car, I'm 169 in the

hole with uh about $20,000 in personal debts.

>> What happened, man?

>> Um the the mother of my child

uh cheated on me with uh with with a guy that she was employed with uh for and uh sent me back down to uh uh an unholy lifestyle, I should say.

>> Can we can we um as we dig out of this and Jade's going to give you an ironclad path, okay?

>> Okay. >> But here's where I want to start with it, okay? >> Yeah. >> A real bad thing happened and what is my and going to be?

>> And it's my responsibility.

>> I want you to own I went and chose to handle this bad thing in these ways.

>> I I did, yes. Absol- I there's no doubt about that. >> Okay. Um that ownership is critical for the

next step. >> Yeah. >> Right? And so, man, I hate that that I dude, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. I hate that happened to you and I hate that like your default setting was I'm going to go run back and make a bunch of bad decisions and un- un- unhealthy decisions and here I am.

And so, that sense of ownership will be what gets you out of this mess. Cool?

>> Yeah. >> All right, cool. Same team.

>> Um so, let's spread it out because I do think that mentally it helps when And this is for anybody, when you're listing out your debt smallest to largest, baby step two, which is the step that we pay off consumer debt, it is just that, it's consumer debt. And so, let's leave the mortgage out of it for a moment and that's going to help you mentally to get your head around what the task at hand is. So, can you tell me what your debt is aside from the mortgage?

>> Uh 65,911.

>> Okay. And I want you to list out what those are. For now, they don't need to be smallest to largest, just list out what they are. >> Oh, yeah, they are.

>> Um so, like tell me how much the car is, tell me how much is on credit cards, maybe tell me how much is personal loans, that sort of deal.

>> Okay, so um the car I have 37,178.

Um personal loans that are right now past due >> Okay. >> um are 18,288.

>> Okay. >> And then the rest are all in collections, which is 10,444.

>> Okay. So, the good news is I see a

couple of things right away that we can do to get you some quick wins, because when you're in baby step two, paying off the consumer debt, it's all about quick wins. That's how you maintain uh just feeling good about it, right?

>> Momentum and things. >> Thank you. I was looking for the word. That's how you maintain momentum, and that's for anybody listening. So, whenever you have debts in collections, that can feel terrible, because you've over due'd and they're blowing up your line, 1-800 Pay Me is calling you. But, the good news is now you have bargaining power. And so, instead of paying 10,400,

you're going to pay like 30% of this.

And so, you're going to save up. Your first number one goal is, okay, let me just instead of paying them a bunch of small payments or coming up with a payment plan, I'm going to meet my other minimum payments, and I'm going to stack up any other margin that I can for a little while, and I'm going to save up, I don't know, three or four thousand dollars, and then I'm going to call them up, and I'm going to settle all of these individually for cash.

So, if you have one that's $4,000, you can offer them two 200, two or 300, and see if they'll take it. Do you see what I'm saying? >> Okay. >> And when you do that, you want to make sure you get the deal in writing before you pay.

Don't give them access to your checking account, and you want to make sure it's in writing first, and they will do it. They have the means to do that. So, if you talk to someone on the line that says, well, I don't know if I can do that. Yes, you can.

Hang up and call to the next person, okay? So, you're going to have to That's going to be That's going to feel like a full-time job to do that, but trust me, it's going to be worth it. You're going to save $7,000 doing it that way. Okay, so that's homework number one.

Homework number two that I see right off the bat is is this car.

Do you happen to know offhand what it's worth?

>> Uh probably around 35.

>> Love that for you. >> Sweet. >> Okay, so you have a couple of options.

Um I don't know what your income is. Tell me what your income is.

>> Uh so uh reliably, my

uh so I I'm I'm on VA disability.

Reliably, it is $4,080.

>> Okay.

And what is it unreliably?

>> Unreliably, it can vary from

6 to 7 grand.

>> Okay, what's the 2,000 that you're getting that doesn't always come through? >> From a side hustle. >> Okay. >> What what keeps you from getting a full-time job? Like even at Home Depot.

>> Well, it well, it kind of is my full-time job. So, my my the

the mother of my son and I, we share custody and the days I have him, I don't

work. And uh and that's only due to lack of um

support right now, but hopefully my parents uh my parents and I have found an opportunity for them to move down here to where I'm at.

And uh they can help out. So, after that, then I can uh turn this side hustle into a

full-time uh business operation.

>> Okay. >> What what does what does child care look like? Like when you How old is your son?

>> He's 5. >> So, is he in school?

>> He goes to school right now, but he only

goes to school for 3 hours a day cuz he's in early childhood development cuz yeah, he has autism.

>> Okay, so for now, and I know you're working on that, but just for today, um

we'll say that I think that the best thing for you to do right now is to save up the margin from your $4 to $6,000 and do the debt collections deal. And in the meantime, yeah, I'm going to go over to the credit union and I'm going to say, "Hey, I need a $7,000 loan."

And 2,000 of that is going to go to meet the difference on this car, and then the other 5,000 is so that you can get a junker in cash to keep yourself going. Maybe you spend 6,000, but the point is I want you going down in debt from 37,000 to around five

or for five or eight thousand. Do you see what I'm saying there?

>> Yeah. >> Now, my guess is that your credit is horrible. >> It's yeah, terrible. >> Yes.

At this point, and I'm just telling you this, I think that anything is going to be better for you it as far as interest rate. I'm not saying get a payday loan, never never do that, but if you have if you can do put it on a credit card, if you can put it on any sort of personal loan, that is going to be good for you because we're going from $37,000 to $8,000, right? So, this is a good thing. And now that you've got the momentum back, you'll have that money back in your pocket, you can knock that debt out because that now becomes your smallest debt aside from the collections, okay?

And so, once the collections are settled, now we're tackling that personal loan that you took out in order to get out of this car. And in the meantime, you're selling that car, Kelley Blue Book personal sale is what we're looking to do. And that's going to free up so much money because I know that that car payment is going to go back into your pocket. And then from there, now we can start working on the personal loan that's past due.

And because it is personal, you might be able to pop in there and make a deal on that, too.

>> Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Everyday on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

>> All right, we've got Kelly who's calling in from LA. What's going on Kelly? How can we help today?

>> Hello. Um we spend $1,700

or more on gas every single month and I want to know if we should get a hybrid.

>> That's a lot. >> Whoa. >> That's a lot. >> Wha- how do how do you So to put it in context, I filled up today my truck and it was the most expensive it's ever been by like $25.

And I I actually Jade and I were talking off air like the thought of me struggling to make it and then all of a sudden I've got to fill up once a week and have an extra 100 bucks. Like that's a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> Where do you get 1,700 a month though?

>> So my husband is a private investigator.

He works in his car. If they turn it off then he's like cooking. So the engine's always running >> and he has to travel really far distances. About a year ago he bought a truck and then it went up because the gas mileage was really bad.

So it's just added up and now it's the more he works the more it costs us.

>> Yeah. Is he in a position where like everybody's having to do right now where he can escalate his rates to cover the gas?

>> I mean they have like a gas

reimbursement but it's only I think like 83 cents a mile or whatever.

>> And it hasn't gone up? >> that app before it and hasn't increased.

>> I'd be if I were him I'd ask about that.

I'd say hey obviously you know and I don't know how long he's been working for that company. Let's say he's been there since 2020 and the rates never gone gone up. I'd say hey I've been here this has always been the reimbursement rate. Obviously prices have gone up. Is it possible that we can adjust this with inflation because I'm spending this X amount of percentage more than I was in you know when things started and kind of just lay out the numbers in a in a in a diplomatic way.

>> Yeah I talked to one person who works in the oil and gas industry and he said they're they're doing something called a supercharge which is we're telling y'all as customers right now it's going to go up but we're not it's not a permanent price increase it's just because things are bananas right now and so uncertain.

What keeps y'all from just taking the truck down and trading it in for a Prius? >> Yeah.

>> I don't know I actually have never even thought of that. >> Yeah. >> We got the truck for about 9,000.

He really wants to stay in a truck because he's kind of tall so he wants something where he can fit.

>> I'm a big guy too and I drove a Prius for years and Dave used to laugh at me but I'll tell you what that thing got a million miles to the gallon. It's pretty sweet.

>> Could you sit in it for 12 hours a day?

>> Oh, yeah, it was awesome.

>> Okay, maybe we should look into trading it in then. >> Well, like in let's let me be super like transparent. I don't drive one anymore.

Now I drive a truck, right? But it's it's less for it's less because I'm a tall guy and more because I do a lot of outdoor stuff and I got place out in the woods that I've always having to use the I use the truck if that makes sense.

But get something that's comfortable, but >> Yeah, split the difference and get what makes sense, but the point is you're going down and you're going to a vehicle that has better gas mileage. That's the point and obviously not going into debt for it and um >> That's the the main the main thing for me is like pan out from the gas situation.

Millions of people right now are having to deal with the fact that their job is different now. Whether it's because of AI, whether it's because of gas prices, it's become uh energy sectors is a zoo

right now. Like whatever you're having to do, step back and ask yourself what changes do we need to make in our house. We don't want to be making these changes. It's not by our hand, but it's in our lap.

We got to make some changes and stay inside your value system, which is we're not going to borrow any money. We're not going to leverage this moment and get ourselves in a two or five or 10 year dilemma because we were uncomfortable right now.

uh I mean 83 cents a mile of reimbursement, that's pretty good reimbursement. Um maybe y'all were using the extra as to pay bills with and now it just needs to go with what the reimbursement's designed for, which is to pay for the gas. You're going to have to cut spending somewhere else. Or maybe you just go take the truck and get a used Prius or used hybrid Camry and you're off to the races, but it doesn't give you permission to go be reckless with your spending and borrowing.

>> Yeah, I would agree with that. Yes, everybody's feeling the gas prices uh go up. All right, John is in Denver, Colorado.

>> Uh thanks for taking my call. So, I'm in a little bit of a bit of a pickle and I'm just wondering if I could should sell my house.

>> Interesting. Give us the deets.

>> I love pickles.

>> So, yeah, they're all very delicious, but maybe not this one.

So, I I bought I bought my house around 2 years ago with a friend and and a few family members.

And the plan Yeah, >> Strike one, strike two, strike three.

>> When you say that, can you clarify? When you say you bought it with them, is everybody's name on the mortgage? >> No, unfortunately, it's just me.

>> So, you're the only one on the mortgage? >> No, that's actually good. That's probably the best case scenario, actually. >> Okay, so you bought the house with your brother and two friends?

>> Uh my sister, her fiance, and a friend, yeah. >> Sister, fiance, and friend. Okay.

>> Um and basically, I'm in a situation right now where almost all of them have completely moved and now my mortgage is is looking like it's going to go up like around 200 200 200 dollars by June.

>> Okay. >> So, >> Why? Do you have an adjustable rate mortgage? >> It's not adjustable rate mortgage. I think it has to do with my property taxes. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Okay, so it's going up by 200.

>> Unfortunately, the value of my house has gone down, so I think if I sell it I I I've talked to my real estate agent and I got it down to a reasonable price.

>> Why did the value go down? Or did you overpay?

>> I the value actually when when it was

evaluated when I bought the house was actually I think like 15 more than than

what I paid for it.

I think there's just not a lot of good comps in the area.

So, there's not like the value ends up being a little bit less than it was. I'm not exactly >> real numbers. Tell us what you bought it for and what you think it's worth.

>> So, I bought it for a 460.

Evaluated for it at 475.

>> Okay. >> It I just got a an appraisal of like a

few months ago cuz I was planning on doing a refinance and it evaluated at 450. >> Yikes. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. Quite a bit of difference.

Um So, I'm in kind of a situation right now where like I did the math and it's looking like after you know commissions for the sellers and and buyers agent I'm going to be losing money um

on it. But is it worth it to just do that, take on like a little bit and just pay that off or hold out even though realistically it's going to be really tight being just me?

>> How How much is a little money? Because I I one time I took $4,000 to closing

with me to get out of a house and that was the beginning of me and my wife starting baby step two and it ended up changing our entire life.

If you're If you're talking about you're going to be $50,000, now that's a different story. >> Mhm. I think with fees you're going to be going to be getting close to 30.

>> Yeah, it's with Yeah, it's looking like at worst it's going to be around 30 and at best if if it doesn't you know if I don't sell it at a reasonable price,

it's going to be around like 15. So, not great. But at least like if I were to get like a a personal loan and and come up with a little bit of money myself like maybe cover a little bit of a difference. You know, I can't see myself taking more than like a year if I work really hard to pay that off.

>> Well, cuz I'm also thinking you've got time like when when the house goes on the market like you've got a couple of months there to save up some cash.

>> Um >> I mean I know it's hard cuz you don't have roommates anymore and you're trying to pay this big old mortgage, but is there anything you could do to to start stacking some money towards this?

>> I don't know to be honest with with with no help, it's it's going to be really tight. I It's the problem is the reason why I want to sell in the first place um is because I feel like it's going to be so tight, I'm not going to be able to put money away. >> Can you like >> going to be in a situation, you know, where something happens, I just end up losing the house anyway. >> Can you rent out the rooms?

>> I you know, I've looked for I've been looking for rentals when when people first started leaving um and I I haven't really had any luck with that. I've tried furnished finders. I've tried reaching out on on like Facebook Marketplace, joining groups, and I've even lowered the price uh three times at this point and I I maybe it's just cuz they don't want to have like a roommate or I'm not exactly sure, but I just haven't had any luck finding someone >> Yeah. >> who's interested.

>> Uh I mean, this is a cautionary tale we tell folks all the time, you know, do not buy a house with the intent that somebody else is going to help you prop up the mortgage payment because this sort of thing happens all the time. The only way out of this is through it.

>> All right, let's cut to the chase. It's easy to get discouraged about crazy house prices and interest rates, but when you have the right real estate agent to help you buy and sell the right way, you'll have confidence to make smart decisions. Ramsey trusted agents

aren't just experts who guide you through buying or selling, they're people you can trust to have your back from the first call to closing day. Find a Ramsey trusted agent near you at ramseysolutions.com/agent.

That's ramseysolutions.com/agent.

>> The right insurance acts as a shield around your loved ones and your wallet if disaster strikes. Our free insurance coverage checkup helps you figure out if you have the right coverage by giving you a personalized action plan with clear next steps. So go to RamseySolutions.com/checkup to take the coverage checkup and find out if you have the protection that you need. All right, we got Sam who's in Fresno, California. Sam, how can we help today?

>> Hi, thanks so much for taking my call.

So I am a single mom of a 9-year-old. Her

dad hasn't been around for about 5 years. He actually gave up parenting time if I agreed not to pursue the court-ordered child support. I spent $100,000 on legal and travel expenses

and that just had a major financial and you know, mental impact on me.

>> I'm Sorry, how much did you say you spent?

>> $100,000. >> Oh wow. Why? Wow.

>> He wasn't looking to reach an agreement. He was just looking to ruin my life.

>> Okay. Okay. >> So I'm in a great relationship now.

We're making future plans, talking about what you know, marriage might look like for us and we have discussed me

potentially working less to be more present for my daughter and you know, I'm aware that I am the one with the child. He doesn't have any kids and I don't want to put more on him than is fair. I've had resentment in past relationships and I do not want to recreate that. So how do I lead into building a life and finances together without feeling like I'm taking from him or like I don't deserve that?

>> Um I think you're asking like three different questions at once.

And that's why the outcome feels so heavy.

And so number one, your body's working perfectly.

Like your child's dad gave your child up

for a number.

Right? >> Yeah. Like what kind of scumbag does that?

I get divorce, I get breakups, but I can't My daughter's been gone for two days, she comes back today, and I haven't been able to catch my breath.

And I'm not special, right? So, like your body has a lived experience with a terrible human being.

And so forget the money and forget the support and all that, your body is saying, "Hey, we've run this before, and um it doesn't

end well." And all that means is it's just trying to keep you safe.

The second part of it is the story you're telling about your This is my body feels a certain way, it must be cuz I don't deserve it. You're making up a story about yourself.

Right? >> Yeah. >> And so, what we're going to stop doing is making up stories about ourselves.

We're just going to tell the truth, and the truth is I'm worth being loved, I'm worth being in a relationship where I'm safe, I'm worth being not connected to a scumbag who would give his child up for a number. And that tells me all I need to know about a grown man, right? Like so, all that kind of stuff.

The third part of this is you're obviously really smart and really talented. Fair?

>> Yeah. >> Okay.

So, you know, just looking at data,

that attaching yourself to a boyfriend, no matter how stable he is, how great of a guy he is, he might be awesome, that still puts you in a very vulnerable position.

>> Uh-huh. >> Right? And cuz you're trying to build something you're trying to build a house without a foundation.

Without legal protection?

Without um emotional like we looked at each other in front of our friends and family and priests and God and said till death do us part. Like you're trying to build a house without that foundation.

And your body's right to sound that alarm.

And so I would rather y'all end this end you may be past dating, right? That sounds like 16-year-old something 16-year-olds do, right? But y'all are boyfriend and girlfriend, it's awesome. Nobody roots for love more than I do. I love it, right? And so now is where we're going to talk about values conversations. Who do we want to be? What kind of life do we want to build together?

And then when you're ready to say I do and he's ready to say I do, put his money in his actions where his mouth is and you too, then we're going to start combining money because now I've got a foundation that's yes, it's got some legal protection. Yes, it's got some emotional spiritual protection, but it's you and I, we put a stake in the ground on this day at this time in front of these people and said till death do us part. And now we're going to say let's share a checking account.

And then you're going to have to practice and I say this with a smile on my face. If if you if you were here in person, you'd see me smiling, right? Like some of it this sounds so callous. You're just going to have to get over. Like I don't want to feel resentment cuz he loves me and wants to take care of me.

And then you're going to have to go I have that feeling and that feeling's dumb, right? And I'm going to like if we're married, we're building a life together and I'm going to be a part-time mom and he's going to be the the full-time employee, awesome cuz we are building something together.

Right? And he is he is in a relationship. He's thinking about marrying a woman who got done real real wrong. And so he has to know part of him loving you well is being extra transparent, extra honest, extra patient with big feelings because your big feelings are right. They've kept you safe up until now, right?

>> Yes. Yeah, they are. >> You get what I'm saying? So there's there's multiple problems here and you think it's all one big bucket and then you feel crazy when you pull the problems apart, man, my body's working pretty dang good.

Um I'm not going to start building a house without a foundation under it. I'll start talking about the design, the architecture and design plans. That That's awesome. But, we're not going to start building.

And man, until that day, I'm taking care of me and mine because that's that's what I got.

>> Yeah. I guess I don't ever let go of that. Like, it's been so long.

>> It'll hang on to you until you practice being seen and known by somebody else.

You're going to have to you'll It sounds nutty. You're going to have to teach your nervous system, not intellectually, but through practice, that I am worth being loved and that's hard to do.

It just takes time. Takes practice.

>> Yeah. Mhm. >> But, you're you sound like you are on the right path.

>> Yeah. >> And I know that doesn't feel like you're on the right path, but from what you're telling me, it sounds like, man, you are this guy has won the lottery with you.

>> You think so? >> Okay. Do you Do you believe him?

>> Uh well, I'm working on it. I am working on it. >> That's awesome. That's That's good. That's a win. That means you're moving in the You're You know to say, "No, I don't believe him." You're like, "I'm working on it." That's awesome. That's awesome.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a good thing we got back together. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, it it sounds like you're on the on the right path here.

But, if you were my sister, if you were my daughter, I I would I would Your body would be working perfectly if it was like, "Man, I don't know if I should go all in and let this boyfriend of mine take care of me and make myself economically vulnerable, emotionally vulnerable, relationally vulnerable, bring another man into my daughter's life after she's already had just nonsense in her first image of a male role model." Like, your body's right to not anchor into that.

>> Wow. >> To not build a house without a foundation. So, your your your your body's working pretty good.

>> I love that. I think we have time to take Matthew in Virginia Beach. Matthew, we're up against the clock, but I think we can help you. What you got?

>> Hi. I have about $140,000 for my engineering degree that I got.

>> Mhm. >> Um I'm in student loan debt. Um I built up about uh 70 grand between my savings

and my brokerage account. >> Uh-huh. >> Um it's kind of tough cuz the numbers kind of say long-term I'd make more money. >> Uh-huh. >> Uh if I would leave it invested, but >> You're thinking about pulling it out and >> pay off my debt. >> Listen, I'm going to I'm going to take that I'm going to take that money every single time and use it to pay off debt.

Only because, and I said it earlier in the show, but I'm going to say it again, one thing we believe around here, and we know it because we've seen it work with millions of people, and not just folks out there. John's done it, I've done it, George, all of us. And we know that your income is the biggest wealth-building tool you have. You need your income at your disposal, and that's the way that you build wealth.

So, as long as you're paying money uh in debt payments, you do not have your full income at your disposal, nor do you have your full range of peace or freedom. And so, by you taking this money out of savings, this is non-retirement funds, I'm assuming, you can take that money out of your brokerage account, cash it in, and pay off this debt, you are one step closer to freedom, and you're one step in the right direction to having the full power of your income work for you.

John? >> I mean, yeah. >> It's the easy That's That's That's the easy button. That's a no-brainer for me.

And I get it. We all like the feeling of seeing a pile of money sitting there, but if you just do basic math, you will realize very quickly, if I have $140,000, but I have $70,000 of debt, or if I have $70,000, I'm sorry, in cash, but I have $140,000 of debt. I don't actually have $70,000.

I'm -70, okay?

>> the bank's 70 grand for them.

>> That's right. So, the math will also tell you that we're right.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show. And it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living it normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

>> Our Ramsey show scripture and quote of the day, Joshua 1:8.

>> Keep this book of the law always on your lips. Meditate on it day and night so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then, you will be prosperous and successful.

>> J.K. Rowling said this.

British accent. >> Do it. >> It is impossible to live without failing at something unless you live so cautiously, you might as well not have lived at all.

>> Terrible. That was horrible. >> that. >> I mean >> Harry.

>> Moving on.

Moving on. We've got Lucy who's in San

Lucy is in San Jose, California, not San

Jose.

How can we help Lucy?

>> Hi, how are you guys? >> Good. What's up? >> How can we help?

>> Yeah, so I'm in kind of a difficult situation. Um I I'll kind of explain my debt first and then the situation. So, I have $57,000

in student loan debt and the interest is around 6%. Um my payments are 640 a

month. I do have 13 months left of forbearance.

So, if I needed to defer at any point, I am able to do that, but obviously the interest is still accruing if I do go on forbearance. >> That's right. >> Um I have 13,000 in a car payment. Um my car broke about 9 months ago and I just got a new car, used car. >> Okay. >> The payments on that are 275 a month.

And it is a 9% interest rate. I have no idea why. I have good credit, but that's I just tried to get it lower and um I couldn't, so that's at 9%.

>> Okay. >> Um and that's my debt and I have $14,500

saved. Um and my dilemma right now is that um I've

been having a lot of health issues. I had to get a couple of surgeries just from actually injuries, like accidents, and following that I started to have like a lot of health issues, just like insomnia and and other things that kind of started from that and my health is kind of like really deteriorated. Um I'm 30 years old. I just turned 30 in March.

>> I'm sorry. Uh-huh. >> Yeah, thanks. Thank you. Yeah, and then also I realized that I have mold in my apartment. >> Oh, boy. >> It's >> It's hidden, um, but it's definitely here. And I've spent a lot of money out of pocket trying to like get the apartment complex to do something. And they're they're basically because of the air test they did, they're saying that it's not significant enough.

Um, but >> know How do you know that it is significant enough?

>> Well, to be honest, like just to save you guys' time, um, it's really hard to know what you're

dealing with unless you can find it and it's hidden. And I know that it's here because my apartment has a very earthy bad smell, um, when everything's closed up. And it even kind of lingers even when everything's open. >> And when they tested it, it just didn't It didn't show that there was mold or that there was enough mold? >> It Right. It said there's a normal amount of mold, and apparently the air test isn't super accurate cuz it's kind of like a point in time. So, it's like it could fluctuate, right?

>> Understood. >> Um, and so, to be honest with you, I don't know that it's affecting my health yet. And it's also very hard to know because >> When's the lease up? >> I've had it Uh, so, I'm on a month-to-month lease, which is nice. >> You're out. >> So, >> Roll out. You should move. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, here's here's what I did. Um, and just so you guys know, I do make good income. I I make 135 a year.

Um, and after ta- I live in California, which is a mistake. I'm going to try to get out of here, but, um, I after taxes

and everything, it I take home 7,100 a

month. >> Good. >> Um, go ahead. Sorry. >> Oh, no. I'm saying that's good. Uh, get to your question. Tell me Tell me what you're trying to do.

>> Okay. So, here's where I I messed up.

Um, so, ideally, I want to pay off my

debt as soon as possible. If If I stayed in a rent range that I'm not now, I paid 2,500 with everything, I could save like

2,000 a month, which is great. Or not save, but put that towards my debt.

>> Sure. >> What I'm even more mistake of doing is my emotions took over and I found an apartment that would be really good for my health and that I really like and

rent here is just insane. I got locked into a good rate cuz I moved during the time. >> took the You already took the lease. You already signed up for something new. >> I I did I did sign it. So, my question is is like do I do I break it because it's 3,400 a month? That's with everything. And given the debt that I'm in, um >> What's the What's the fee to break the lease?

>> So, I probably need to pay the first month's rent cuz it will definitely get rented quick. It's a great place.

>> Yeah. >> Which is 3,400. But on top of that, I'm going to have to pay rent where I am until I find a new spot that's hopefully cheaper, but it might not be. >> going to have to do anyway.

>> Yeah. >> So, that that part is that part's neither here nor there because you you signed a lease anyway that you were going to have to pay two rents, which is wild. But >> Oh, no, no. I wouldn't pay two rents, actually, um because the date that I selected as my move-in date, um there wouldn't be a double rent.

So, it would just be for the one. >> But hold on. Like Uh you have $14,000 saved. I would take that first month's rent, go hand it to them, and say I'm out of this lease.

I haven't even moved in. >> Okay. >> And I'm breaking the lease. And you got cash, thank thank goodness.

>> Yes.

Like you're you're it's it's this All of this emotion is stored is compounding on itself, and it's a really simple I I'm going to pay $3,400, and we jokingly say it's your stupid tax. I did something dumb, right? I I got emotional and I did a thing. Cool.

We've all done it. And I'm it's going to cost me that, and I'm going to be down to What is that? >> 10,000, 11,000. >> right?

In savings. And then I'm going to on the way home, I'm going to put a deposit down on a new place, and then call it. >> Yep. >> Okay.

>> from >> Say again? >> had 18 I actually had 18,000 saved, but I had to pay a $3,000 deposit.

>> And you won't get that back.

Or will you? >> get it back. I don't think they can legally keep it because I didn't move in. So, there's no fee that like there's no cleaning or anything like >> I might as well just be out 400 bucks.

>> Yeah. Plus the rent that I'm paying here. So, yeah, it would be like I'd be losing like $5,000 in total. >> That's fine. John and I are fine with all of that. You can't You cannot stay at the new apartment. So, if it's cost whether it cost you $500 to get out or >> Or 5,000 bucks. You got to leave.

>> You got to You got to leave because you can't handle that rent.

Um and then from there >> I did the math and I should still be able to save >> You can't handle it. >> around 900 to 1,000, but you think it's not worth it. >> Darling, you're broke. >> You've got $57,000 of student loan debt.

>> Yeah, you're broke, hon. And I I say that in a cuz I love you. Like you're You don't have any money.

>> Okay. >> And and you're going to feel how You're going to feel house poor.

>> Yeah. >> It's going to take you double as long because to your point, it's going to cut into your margin by over a thousand dollars. So, it's going to take you double as long to pay off the debt.

That's It's not worth it. >> And what what what was your car note again? How much do you owe on that car? >> $640 a month.

>> No, it's 275 a month. >> no, so this this yeah, 275. Yeah, you know, I think I was trying to justify it and like this is a one-year commitment to get my health in order. >> I know, but just to tell me how Tell me how much you owe on your on your car.

>> 13,000. >> Yeah, I just got the car in February. I I put 2,000 down.

>> Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go settle up with the apartment complex ASAP, today.

Cuz here's the thing I know about autoimmune issues and overall general health issues, the more stress you have, the more all those things are exacerbated.

>> Right. >> And so, let's stop going like Let's don't say like I'm going to take a year for my health because your body is going to register 50 to 60% of my take-home income is in this apartment.

>> Right. >> It will know you're not safe. It will know that debt's only going up cuz I can't even barely keep up with the you're going to pay minimums on your student loans and the balance is going to move $1, right? And so, your body

will be keeping that score to quote Vander Kolk. So, let's go get cleaned out of that and then this afternoon with whatever cash you have left minus a thousand bucks, I want you to pay the car off.

>> Yep, keep a thousand dollars saved.

That's your starter emergency fund no matter what, keep a thousand. >> Just take action on these things, yeah.

>> Okay. Yeah, I I That's what I figured you were going to tell me to do. I think I just needed that uh reminder. Yeah, it's it it's hard just with the health stuff cuz >> I'll feel a lot better once I do that.

>> Yeah. >> This is going to help you to John's point. >> Reducing stress. >> Yes.

And and there's just something good about taking action. Like you feel like, "Okay, I've done I've actually done something. I didn't just get the research. I didn't just ask more and more questions.

I'm waking up bright and early. I'm going down to the apartment complex. I'm I'm paying whatever I owe them. They're going to refund me back what they owe me for the deposit. Then from there, I'm literally going back home. I'm making the final payment online on my car. I'm keeping the thousand dollars aside. I'm going down to the bank. I'm putting it in a high yield savings account. You will have done three major things for your future in less than 24 hours.

>> And all you'll have left is 57 57,000 bucks on student loan and then you're free. >> All right, we're out of here. Remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 288. You’re Not Stuck—You Just Need a Better Plan | March 23, 2026


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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is The Ramsey Show and I am

Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with my good friend and co-host of SmartMoney Happy Hour, George Kamel. So, we'll be taking your calls. So, the number is 888-825-5225.

Give us a call and first up we have Daysha in Boston. That's George's hometown. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thank you. Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um I am about $140,000

in student loan debt and my boyfriend and I have been talking about getting engaged and the debt is

overwhelming and a wedding would be, you

know, obviously a lot more on top of that. I'm wondering if you have if I should refinance my student loans or if I should do a balance transfer on my credit card and what your opinions are the best way to get out of this debt as soon as possible. Yeah, what did you get your degree in?

Um criminology and sociology. I was planning to go to law school, but now it's too expensive. Yeah. So, how much are you making now a year?

Um so, I was working in my field, now I'm back waitressing. Right now, I make between $1,000 to $1,500 a week.

Wait, why are you Why did you get out of the field?

Because the job that I had gotten, I was

making more money serving.

So, I went back to serving because when I was working my regular job or working the job in my career, I only had like $300 at the end of the month to buy groceries and pay for things, so I thought it would be better to make more serving.

Okay. So, what were you doing? What was the job?

I was a probation case specialist.

So, what does the sort of ladder look like in the field that you're wanting to go into?

So, initially I was going in I wanted to

go to law school and then when I graduated I realized how much debt I had. So, probation was my next option.

It kind of goes probation case specialist, then case manager, and then being a probation officer.

Um But, that's not what you want to do.

That's just sort of what you fell into.

Yeah, I mean I would love to be a lawyer and go to law school, but I don't think that that's going to happen. I don't really see the point in getting $100,000 plus more debt

to go to law school.

Yeah, we definitely don't want to make the problem worse, but right now we're trying to go serving probably has a ceiling and it's a great side hustle, but it's not a career.

And so, my fear is you stick to this and 3 years from now you're still serving making the same amount and you haven't made much progress on the debt versus you got promoted, now you've been in this field for 3 or 4 years with more experience, now you're making 60, 70, 80. Mhm. >> That's the goal. And then what does your boyfriend do?

Um he was in the Coast Guard. He got out about a year ago and now he's waiting to get on the fire department.

Okay. And do you guys think you'll get married soon if you did get engaged?

Yes. Okay, just >> Well, I don't soon, I would say we wouldn't get married at least for 2 years, maybe 3. Okay.

Well, the truth is it's going to be hard to do this on just your income if you stick to this salary.

Yeah, the job that I have now I'm going I work at a different restaurant in the summer and there the on season there I

make like I can make $10,000 a month.

That's why I went back initially.

It's just the off season that's awful. Mhm.

Yeah, well I think long-term maybe you get through the summer and make that because I mean because you said 145,000, right? In student loans.

140. 140.

Um So yeah, I mean with at this rate I mean it's going to be a really long time till you pay these off and so like what George was saying, finding a career at any level. Now I don't care if it's with your degree or not, but just anything that you want to do, you need to start pursuing because getting in is

going to be really important and then you're going to start working your way up and that's where you're going to start to see raises and actually be making significantly more money to help pay off $140,000 of the student loans.

So um before you get off the call we still have a few minutes with you, but Christian pick up and we'll get you Ken Coleman's book Find the Work Your Your um Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

Yeah. I know, sorry Ken.

So many words, Ken. I forgot the title, but it has a it has a um

like an assessment in the back of it that's going to be able to help honestly direct you and maybe give you some ideas career-wise. That's going to be really important in this because of the amount of student loan debt. So what type of student loan debt is it? Is it private, federal? Yeah, so three of them are through Sallie Mae and my interest rate on one

of them is 15% and the other two are I think 12 or 13. So I don't know if I should refinance. Yeah, it's possible.

Yeah, you could probably get a better deal. Just here's the parameters for when you should and could refinance a student loan. It's got to be completely free to make the change. You've got to keep a fixed rate if you have one or change over from variable. I assume these are all fixed rate loans. And then you either need to keep the same term for the refinance loan or possibly shorten it. So, what we don't want to do is make the term longer.

And then lastly, obviously, you've got to lower the interest rate. So, if you can check all of those boxes, it's worth looking into it to see if that can help you. But, it's not the solution. I don't want you to think that we've solved the problem.

And especially a balance transfer, that's a terrible idea cuz all it does is move the debt around and make it harder to pay off. Cuz now they're not split up. They're just in one giant pile.

Yes. And I'll send you my book as well.

It will walk you through the debt snowball method. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. There's a whole chapter on student loans that I hope gets you fired up. There's no way to reverse this.

You can't return the degree. >> so sick of it. Mhm. I wish there was refunds on your college degree, but you know, this is the This is the path and Desha, this is, you know, it's you did sign the dotted line, but too many students are led down this path of saying, "Hey, education is worth it at all costs no matter how much it costs you in student loans." And regardless of school, yeah.

>> And regardless of school and degree, and you don't worry, it'll ROI. It's a good investment in your future.

My Sallie Mae is 1336.

Um my other one is 133 and another one is 287. Wow. Mhm. So, we're like edging towards two grand just in minimum student loan payments. 1741, yeah.

And is that hitting any of the actual principal or is the most of that the interest?

Uh most of it's interest. I think it's been two years since I've graduated, it's gone down The total has gone down 2,000.

Yeah. Wow. >> So, that's the that's the hard cycle that has to break. So, Desha, honestly, I would be doing this this job that you're talking about. I would be waiting tables every weekends, every night. I would be working oh my gosh, 80 hours a

week. I mean, honestly, like there's going to have to be a significant >> I'm trying, yeah. Yes, like a significant significant bump. And what

George was saying, too, you know, not that your, you know, fiance is necessarily the answer, but if you guys ended up getting married and you combine finances and you guys work at this together, the double income idea, you

know, don't get married for that reason, obviously, but having that double income is helpful, too. So, I would not wait until this debt is paid off to get married. We never say to wait on life events, you know, people are like, "Well, I don't want to have a baby or I don't want to get married because I have all this debt." Life has to go on, and so, if anything, if he really is the one

from a mathematical perspective, a dual income can help knock this out, too.

>> Making 150 to pay off 140 is a lot easier than making 50 on your own.

>> Yeah, hold on the line, Desha. Christian's going to pick up to get you those books.

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Up next in Springfield, Virginia, we

have Sophie on the line. Hi, Sophie.

Hi, Rachel and George. Thank you so much for taking my call. I appreciate it.

>> Absolutely. How can we help today?

Um I am a long-time listener and I just

finished reading The Total Money Makeover, which was really energizing to read. And I've been listening to the podcast just non-stop in recent weeks cuz I just need to internalize everything and my husband and I are on the same page, you know, about what kind of position we are in. And so, there's a teamwork element there and we're very optimistic because there are lots of people who are in Anyway, um Sorry, I didn't realize how emotional I was going to be getting on the >> What's going on? I am

I have um words.

Oh my gosh, I'm sorry. >> No, you're fine. Take your time.

>> dying or anything, but It's stressful.

Um I have 10-month-old twins and a 2-year-old and Well, that's why you're you're emotional, Sophie. You haven't been sleeping. You've got babies, babies, babies.

Yeah. This is probably the most time you've had to yourself in a long time, just you calling into the show.

Oh my gosh. That is actually true.

>> So, you got three little ones, and what's happening?

So, we um I have been at work um since they were about 3 months old, the twins. Mhm. And um we've we've had a um nanny, and she's amazing. Um but we

are um my husband's work is in sales. I now make salary.

Um I thankfully received a promotion when I came back from maternity leave, so that was a blessing for sure, and it definitely has been helpful, cuz now I'm on salary instead of hourly, so it's a little bit more predictable. Um I make

for context, I make 75. My husband is in

um sales, and so it really fluctuates.

It's very seasonal.

Um and this month in particular was the lowest he's ever earned, and so um it's just put us in a position where we are looking at rent, looking at paying the nanny, looking at car payments, looking at that kind of stuff, and it's just all like I don't see it coming together in time.

And so, I'm just wondering um what kind

of first steps would be advised? Okay.

Um well, we always talk about when there's an urgent situation like this.

From a cash flow perspective, there's a couple of things. Number one, before any debt is paid, rent is paid, okay?

So, rent, food, and anything transportation. So, gas to

get you to and from work, okay?

Um the car payment would would be close in there um to make sure that you're not getting behind on that, but rent is rent is

before the car payment, okay? So, the order of priority is very important that what is taken care of is taken care of of things that are needed, okay?

Um, so, the priority is important, number one. And then number two, where you draw the line of where the money runs out.

And then what's below that is going to have to be a conversation either with

a place, a creditor, a nanny, I don't know what that looks like, but where do you think this month the money's going to run out? If you paid rent, if you paid utilities, and if you paid food and made sure you had gas in the car, where would the line where would the money run out, do you think?

Um, well, I once um, this payment I just put through or the anyway, I'm going about to have $200 probably in my checking account. I've got a little bit of cash, a couple hundred bucks. Um, and cash cash continues to come in.

I I'm I manage a restaurant, so there are some little things that I do within the business where I take a little cash, so that that's it's small, but it's not nothing. I would say a couple hundred bucks a week. Um, but uh, we are going to have to pay the nanny about a grand.

Um, and um, my so, I'll be paid

a little after the first, like whatever that Wednesday is, around the first. Um, and my net is 2171, so that'll be mine.

My husband gets paid on the first, he gets 971.

And um, our rent is 2650.

And so, I'm kind of seeing like

everything So, my my

Yeah, I don't know. My my we pay $400 a month in freaking formula. I haven't even That's not even included in diapers. Right. Right. >> Um so we've been collecting some cloth diapers. Um we got some on our registry.

Originally, I got some from my local by nothing group. I'm all about that, by the way. That's such a great Yeah. Yeah. Yes, totally. And And those little things are very helpful, for sure. But looking at the big picture, is there um is there extra hours that he can work

or you can work or he could pick up a side hustle at night just to be getting getting cash flow in? If you can make an extra I don't know. For $500 a week doing DoorDash or something

at night. What does that look like? I did I did sign up for Instacart delivery. Um There's There's some There's spotty little places where I could do a couple hours here and there. Um I'm on a wait list. Um so I That's hopefully going to come through. Um I mean, we have bartending experience. I could see if my husband has any interest in picking up like >> Yeah, that'll make good money. Nights and weekends, for sure.

Cuz so the thing the thing about the nights and weekends, that's when I work. So I don't know if that's going to work.

>> Right. So the nanny is part-time. She's there from 12:00 to 6:00 Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, because I go in.

And um I Excuse me. And uh I'm the closer on Wednesday, Thursday, Fridays. I open on Saturday, Sundays. And my husband um has the kids.

Um Okay. So you're just using her when you really need her when you both are at work. >> Yeah. Right. So she's part-time. And theoretically, we could really cut her hours, but then I don't know that she would stay with us. And Yeah, if anything, it would be the opposite. It would be finding a cheaper sitter maybe for two or three nights throughout the week, so you're both earning more even with what you're paying a sitter.

Like it's going to be hard, you know, and I know you feel that. You I can feel I know >> hard. and he and I are like How much the cars So So what kind of debt what kind of debt is there?

So the cars um one of them is I think about 14,000 on

it um and the other They're about the same um

Excuse me, one of them the minivan we had to So we we got the Tucson first and that's when we were about to have our son because we were like, "Okay, we're about to have a baby. We need We had my um 2008 Elantra at the time which had been paid off a long time ago and but she she got to a like to 200,000 miles so we had to eventually >> what if you sold those private party each of those vehicles, how much could you get for them?

So um the minivan is a unique scenario

sort of um so when we were having the twins and we were about to have three rear-facing car seats they the the police station that helps put car seats told us that and and was correct. I mean that the car seats didn't fit side by side. She was like, "If you had two rear-facing and one forward it would fit but like just the mechanics of it." So we had to get a different car. My aunt

um actually gifted us the money to buy a

newer minivan. We I had I hadn't read The Total Money Makeover yet so I hadn't internalized the value of going the snowball method like and and and mentally like >> Who Who Who owns the van? Whose name is the van under?

Yours? >> Mine. >> Okay. Do you know how much you would get for it if you guys sold it?

So probably 30 but morally I'm wondering if that's >> You would get 30,000 for this van? So you could net 16.

It's a It's a 2022 and we my aunt gifted us the basically the cash for it cuz she wanted us to have >> are you in debt with it then? If she if she gave you It sounds like you bought a more expensive car. She gave you 14 and you spent 30.

I paid off our credit cards cuz that was a higher interest. Well, then let's not talk morals if we used it for something else anyways. >> Sophie, this is a this is a bright light. Get rid of this van. Get rid of this van. You'll have $16,000 cash. That's how you pay rent. You know what I mean? Like, yes, and so I would get rid of this van tomorrow.

>> And then get something in cash and that frees up a payment. >> up a payment and then even the $14,000 other car, if you can if you're not underwater on it, get rid of that. These this frees up money. You guys have to make some extreme sacrifices cuz you're in an extreme state. So, remember, prioritize the budget. Food, shelter, utilities, transportation gets paid, okay? And then we're going to start working our way out of debt by working extra.

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Next up, we have a Tyler in Philadelphia. Hi Tyler, welcome to the show.

Thanks guys. How are you guys doing? Yeah, we're doing great. Thanks for calling. How can we help?

So, my wife and I have been struggling with this question ever since we had our daughter about 8 months ago. Um So, my wife is a stay-at-home mom, is it morally right of me to ask her to work a

shift or two a week when my income is more than enough money to pay for our bills, um pay debt payments, and even pay a little bit extra on debt.

Is it morally right?

Um I probably wouldn't put that wording to

it. I would say I would frame it more as

um is it o- is it okay for her to work outside the home? Is it okay for the value system of our family and how we want it to look and run?

Uh that we're maybe doing a different plan, we're changing that plan from what we originally thought in order to hit goals. Like, yeah, I To me, it's not a moral question. It would be more of a values question for you guys.

Okay. >> So what's the motive in wanting her to pick up some shifts?

I just want to be able to like obviously we have a plan to be able to pay off debt, but her being able to work a little bit and pick up a couple shifts would be able to allow us to kind of make that plan go a lot faster and we're just kind of not on the same page.

I think it's the the latter. I'm trying to trying to pay off debt at all. >> Okay. Okay, so that so then yes, it would be very difficult to tell your wife to go back to work for something that she doesn't really care about.

>> moral issue. It's just strategically wrong to demand. It's just not going to go well. And saying like, "Hey, can you pick up some work?" to a person who's been working all day in the home.

That's where I think it can get defensive. >> Yeah, well and she's going to go to work for something that she's not interested in and that's to pay off debt and she didn't care to pay off debt. >> you guys to be united on the goal and then what levers can we pull in order to make this go faster?

>> So what is causing her not to care about

the debt? Is she just like it's not a big deal, we're fine?

I I think the way she the way she was brought up, I mean her my my my parents

and her parents had very different views on money and so my parents were very much get out of debt like debt free as soon as possible whereas her parents have kind of always that that's not money's not always been the most important thing in their life and so coming from such different backgrounds Yeah. >> it's hard to hard to find that common ground. >> have you guys been married?

Uh about 2 years. Okay. When did you decide that you want to get out of debt?

It I for the first 6 months of our marriage I wasn't as um I wasn't as gung-ho about it as I should have been, but then about a year and a half I really I sat down and really looked at all of our finances and I said like we got a mess here. We we got to get ourselves out of it. Have you Have you shown her that? >> it's been a year and a half of this conversation.

Yeah, it's unfortunately it's just one of those sore subjects that every time it's brought up it it usually ends in a fight or it just we we we drop it and then and talk about something else cuz we don't ever get anywhere. >> Does she Do you guys sit down together and talk about money on a regular basis? I mean not not about the debt necessarily, but bills and goals for saving or

anything along those lines?

Yeah, that that's the crazy thing is that she's she's completely on board with the budget and like we we have a great budget going on. Like she's she's completely on board with that and spending within her means. It's just the the aspect of wanting to try and make a little extra sacrifice and she doesn't have Yes, correct.

>> Okay. Well, at what rate will you pay off debt without her picking up more work?

It would probably take us 5 to 7 years, I would say.

>> What kind of debt is it?

It's uh it's 85,000 total.

Uh it's a combination of student loans and the car loan. We have a loan to my dad because he'll pay off For a what? >> on that. So it's a lot of different aspects. What's the debt to your dad?

I thought your parents were the ones that didn't like debt.

Yes, correct. They He Like we had $20,000 in credit card debt and my dad came to us and said, "Well, I'm going to I'm going to pay this off for you guys.

You're just going to pay me back in a loan that way you guys aren't getting killed with the interest involved in that." Oh boy. Okay. So you owe him 20 grand?

Yeah. >> What's on the car loan?

Uh about 10,000. Okay, what's that thing worth? If you sold it private party >> Pretty much right at 10. It's pretty It's pretty much right at 10,000. Okay.

And then the majority student loans?

It Yeah, it's about 55,000 in student loans. >> Okay. Well, how much do you How much do you make a year?

105.

Okay.

Um Yeah, I mean, I think it is going to It's going to come down to you guys sitting down and just saying and you explaining to her not that not saying you need to do this and you need to do that and you need to pick up work, but how you're feeling, right?

This idea of stress. You're You're feeling the weight of all of this. And to be honest, Tyler, you owe your dad 20 grand. Like, that's not fun.

That's not a fun place to be with your parents. For 7 years, every holiday's going to be a little awkward. Yes. So, Yeah. All So, all of that combined, she needs to understand and hear from you, her husband, what this what what kind of toll this is taking on you.

From a from a stress standpoint and emotional standpoint. >> I can't live with this stress for 7 years. Yes. That And and that's fair, Tyler. And I would hope that she would could look over and say, "Yes, I I see that my husband is majorly

struggling. This may not feel important to me, but it's important to him. And so, what does life look like for us to get, you know, past this and through this debt? And then that would be the conversation of looking at For me, it's always helpful to look at numbers cuz just this like never-ending idea of like, okay, I'm just going to be going back to work for this thing. That can That can feel like, you know, a

tunnel you're walking down and you can't see the end of it. And so, if you guys put in, you know, even like an Excel sheet or something and just say, "Okay, if we sacrifice and we lived on, you know, $70,000, and put everything else towards the debt, and you guys got really aggressive, like really aggressive, and she did not go back to work. I think you guys could have this paid off faster than 7 years, Tyler.

If you guys did nothing, nothing.

>> your rent or mortgage payment?

Uh 1,500 a month. Okay, that's reasonable cuz you're probably taking home what? A little over 6 grand a month?

Yeah, it's yeah, it's about 60 yeah, something like that. So, your total bills you're saying are about 5 grand and you can throw a grand towards the debt.

Correct. Okay, so then now the question is, well, we have 5 grand of bills, how can we get that down while you go make more? If she can't or is unwilling, then it's on you and that's new conversation.

Hey, I'm going to be gone a little more cuz nights and weekends are now going to be me side hustling because we can't be in this mess for 7 years. Yeah, if you guys could get to a point that you're throwing 3 grand at this debt a month,

right? I'm like that that significantly changes changes things. And that could be from extra work, that could be from

you guys taking your food budget to X amount down a couple hundred bucks. You know what I mean? Like it's it's it's moving the numbers around. >> is if you can't pick up extra work, we're going to have to have a budget of about $3,000 to live on.

And now you guys get to play that game and see what you can cut. And then if it gets uncomfortable, then we have to go, all right, we need to make more money.

One or both of us is going to have to do that. >> put in there and just say, hey, if you Yeah, is she a nurse? When you said shifts, what does that mean?

No, no, no. She she's a stay-at-home mom. No, I know, but you said she could pick up a few shifts earlier. Yeah, she

she used Before she had the baby, she used to work at a fast food restaurant.

Got it. Okay. >> Okay. Um Yeah, and you know, and you guys >> hard for me And you may look at it too >> It's just hard Look at it. Well, I was going to say, you may look at it too and say what she's bringing in versus child care may not even be worth it. You know what I mean? Like you guys may actually run the numbers and see. But it's hard for you what? Finish your sentence.

It's hard hard because I know how much work a stay-at-home mom is on on her and

I so I don't want to feel like I'm asking too much of her by by asking her even just to pick up a shift or two a week. Well, then change the sacrifice.

The sacrifice becomes we need to cut a bunch of things out of the budget. Our lifestyle is going to go down if we can't go make more. And so there's just there has to be a sacrifice on either side here and that might just mean right now you're working extra and cutting down on the budget in order to cut down this timeline.

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All right, let's go to Victoria in El Paso. Hi Victoria.

Hi, how are you? Hi, we're doing great.

How can we help?

I was needing some help figuring out

some guidance in the situation my husband and I are in. We recently purchased this home, started out doing small renovations that led us to discover big massive problems so much to the point to where our contractor did some digging, realized that the

permits that were pulled for this house were never completed, nobody ever inspected this house, nothing was signed off. Um there was never a certificate of occupancy on the initial home selling

and we have found like nothing in the plumbing, the electrical and at this point the building now is up to code, nothing absolutely nothing and so my husband and I have already invested close to $30,000 in renovations that we

were already budgeting to do for this house and that's not including all of the plumbing and stuff that we have recently found that are wrong with this and so we're just kind of trying to get some guidance on what our next steps are with all the information that we've gathered and have ceased work on our new house that we bought. Oof.

How long have you owned the house? When when did you buy it?

We closed January 29th of this year.

Oh, so super recent.

Yeah, we haven't even moved into this house. Like we were going to do all the small renovations like new flooring, baseboards, um some lighting, and then that was it.

We were going to move into our first ever home cuz we had been working so hard, paying off all of our debt like our college debt and everything. So, we were super excited for this big step and then suddenly we run into this massive massive problem.

And there's a lot of people who are incompetent to get us here. And so, we're not going to rehash all of that.

Let's just talk about what you can do at this stage. Cuz right now you are you could be legally liable to get this thing up to code.

Exactly. And so, number one, I would be contacting a real estate attorney.

Correct. We are in the process of trying to figure that out. I've collected all original tax documents. Do you have the permit history?

Uh I am I am in the middle of requesting it. They will be sending us those documents on Monday. And I even went to the title company and they have no record of the certificate of occupancy for the people that owned the house prior to us cuz they were the first home buyers to the new home and then for us as well. Was there title insurance?

At closing? Um for us there was. I don't

know if I can't speak for the people prior to us. Well, I'm wondering if that title insurance could help you in this case.

It could cover some of the stuff that was undisclosed. And then the other part is the listing agent, the person who sold you this home. You could file a complaint against them as well with you know, your state's real estate commission. >> Yeah, have you contacted your real estate agent, Victoria?

I have. She said that from the legal

counsel she sought out that as a since

this wasn't a new home buy for us, that theoretically we were all in the clear not having to ask for a title of occupancy and for any of proof that the permits were completed or anything was up to code with this house.

A lot of assumptions made here.

Okay. Oh boy, and you guys didn't get an inspection. We did. So, we got an inspection. The inspector never flagged anything that we

He There was a couple of things that he flagged, but those were like minor neg- negligible things that my husband's like, "I can fix." Such as like the vent on the top of the house wasn't done correctly. So, things my husband's like, "It's not a big deal. Like, there's nothing massive." All the problems that we found in this house are all things that were not visibly able to see, obviously.

>> Okay. So, it's not something the inspector should have reasonably caught?

>> I'm wondering. >> Cuz if so, they have their own insurance that you could file for them. >> I'm shocked that nothing I mean, from what you're making it sound like, I'm shocked that the Yeah, that there was no level of any problem from the inspector.

Oh, yeah, for sure. We're We're so in shock that somehow we got from There was

Someone had purchased property, and then suddenly there's a house, but there were no signatures and no signature trail from A to B, and then somehow though we're all kind of we're connected to all kinds of city resources though, even though the city's like, "Yeah, none of this was completed. Nothing was ever signed off on." I mean, nothing is making sense. No dots are connecting. And we >> title clean?

Like, everything's good with the title? That's what I almost would be feel I'm scared that someone else's name is is in all of this, too. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I have no I mean, honestly, at this point I've I feel like the only thing that I felt was in the right direction was to to try and go and like all the original documents for this house and the property taxes and everything. >> Yeah. Before someone tries to cover something up when they find out that we're coming in.

>> days? I mean, of the of well, I guess a little over 90. I mean, close to 90 days. So, >> Right.

Right? You're not You You haven't owned it for 2 years and you're finding all this stuff and you're trying to backtrack everything. Um that this closing just happened. So, I would I would talk to a real estate attorney to probably get some good course of action.

Because from especially from a in Texas

like specific state laws and different things right different states run things differently. And so, they're going to know from a state specific side um, how to move forward. But yeah, I would make sure the even in Texas clean all of it. Yeah.

Yeah, if there's a lack of certificate uh, certificate of occupancy, I think your attorney's going to have a field day with this one. But it's going to cost you before we can get out of this mess or solve it. So, that's the not fun part. This is going to be a full-time job for you guys just to deal with. I'm so sorry. >> Yeah, it's horrible. So sorry, Victoria.

All right, let's go to Brad in Huntsville. Hi, Brad. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for taking the call. >> Absolutely, how can we help?

So, basically me and my wife, we're 26 years old. We don't have any debt apart from a mortgage. But we have two homes.

One is completely paid off and the other one we have about $270,000

in mortgage debt on. So, our plan was to hopefully sell our house and then pay off the entire mortgage.

But now it's looking like there's going to be about $30,000 difference. we have we have close to like $350,000

in investments. And we're just deciding whether it would be wise to take that 30K difference and put it into the house to pay off the mortgage or if we should just try to pay off the mortgage as fast as possible, you know, over the course of like 2 years. >> Yeah, how much do you guys make a year?

We make $5,795

a month. So, that's like $69,000 a year.

Like in Texas, like that's the bring take home pay. Yep. When you say investments, are these retirement accounts or non-retirement?

Non-retirement accounts. Okay. Where'd that money come from? And what were you investing for?

Yeah, so some of it's we me might have some businesses some franchises that we sold so we got some that way some of was it like inheritance stuff others has

been different real estate stuff so it's just kind of a combination of all the things.

>> not really earmarked for anything it was just sort of a pile of money of profits that have just been sitting there in like a brokerage account.

Yeah, it's in brokerage account and you know like in my head in my head you know I we have other stuff going on for retirement too but in my head it's part of my retirement even though it's not like an earmarked retirement account.

>> if you have no mortgage no payments and you're investing from 26 for the rest of your career you're going to be multi multi multi millionaires I'm not really concerned I would be taking that 30k out plus whatever you'll owe in capital gains taxes on the growth and knock out that mortgage.

>> Okay. And then with that freedom payment let's do something smart with it you know. >> much is the mortgage payment a month?

So again so right now but we're selling we're closing on the sale of our house next week so that's when we actually get to take that big chunk of money to pay down the house we currently have but like I said the current mortgage is 270k so that's like a $1700 payment.

>> Got it. And so but but if we were to just take it and not pay off the $30,000 difference the the principal you know just just the mortgage side of it not including the home insurance would be like 190 bucks a month. Nice. Got you.

Yeah I would do that and this is let me clear for the listeners it's because it's in a non retirement account so you're not going to be facing penalties you're just going to have the capital gains tax and so I would definitely do that you'll still have a giant pile of money and no payments for the rest of your life at 26 dude you guys won the lottery. >> Well done Brad yep paid off tonight and

enjoy.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I am Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Kamel and we are answering your questions. So, it's open phones at 888-825-5225.

So, give us a call. All right. First up, we have Nehemiah in Charleston. Hi, welcome to the show.

Hey, how you guys doing today? We're doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so I'm 21 years old. Uh when I

graduated high school, uh I thought credit was the main thing that I had to focus on and uh I I ran it up pretty quick.

And uh I was handling it pretty decent, but I recently uh lost my job and now I'm back working, but I took a major pay cut at least in my uh book and uh I'm just

trying to figure out how can I uh handle it better. So, like whenever I get out of this, I know the right steps to do next time. Yeah, absolutely. So, how much debt are you in?

Uh around 25,000. 25,000, okay. And is that

mostly credit cards or what what kind of debt is it?

Uh I have 14,000 towards my truck. Uh

my truck had a problem that needed to be

fixed. And that was $5,000 towards

repairs.

And then the job I was working at, I needed tools. Uh and that was roughly around 3,000. Okay.

And is that was that on a credit card?

Uh yes, ma'am. Okay. So, you got the truck loan and then a bunch of credit card debt?

Yes, sir. Okay. What are you making right now?

Uh 800 a week. Uh 40 That's 41,000.

And 600 a year. Okay. And that comes out to What's your take home pay?

Every month. >> Uh right at 800. Okay.

So, what do you >> 800 a month a week.

800. >> A week. Okay. >> 800 a week. >> Got you. Got it. And what is your rent right now?

Uh I'm currently staying with my mother.

Okay, good. I just don't want to bite off no more than what I can chew now.

Well, we yeah, we tried that game. We played with the snakes, we got bit. So, here's the good news. You don't need to worry about your credit score once you've paid off all this debt.

Yes, sir. Cuz the point of credit scores is to get you some more debt at better rates. That's the game. Yes, sir. But, if you want to live more freely, you just don't go into more debt. And you can still rent apartments, rent cars, even get a mortgage without playing the credit score game. And I I'll walk you through that. I'll send you a copy of my book, Nehemiah, and I have a whole uh chapter on credit scores I want you to read as some homework.

All right. So, the goal now is how low can we get our expenses, how high can we get our income to create this beautiful gap called margin to throw with this 25K?

Yes, sir. So, right now, how much do you think you'd have if you live pretty tight? How much could you throw at your debt?

Uh, I'm throwing about

600 at it right now. I mean, I'm I'm I'm

living off of chicken, eggs, and rice.

So, you're but you're saying you're living at home, so your expenses should be pretty low.

Yes, sir. Well, my mother uh she's actually out of work right now. She's been having some uh serious medical uh issues. So, I'm I'm doing what I can

do.

>> Uh, not completely cuz she is on a disability, but I I I am helping out. Okay.

So, what do your total bills add up to?

>> Uh

What?

Cuz here's the math on this. I'll just show you what I'm doing in my head, some napkin math. You have 25 grand in debt.

So, if you could put a thousand bucks toward the debt, you're done in about two years.

All right. >> So, the goal is how do we get out of debt in less than two years? Well, we need to put more than a thousand bucks a month toward the debt. So, that becomes the goal, and now it's how do we get our expenses down, income up in order to do that.

>> Yeah, and I would say, I mean, I would go even bigger Nehemiah, too. If you think about if you're if it's 600 right now, could you make it a goal to earn an extra $1,000 a month by working nights and weekends and just working like crazy.

a month, then that's yeah, $1,600

go into that debt and that, you know, That speeds it up. >> Yeah, I mean, it cuts it not quite in half, but close to it. That would get you out of debt in about 15 months instead of 24 25 months. Yeah.

So, it's just it's it's those seasons of sacrifice. Um and you're doing you're doing a lot, too, Nehemiah. I mean, helping your mom. Do you know um do you see kind of an end to when she may be able to go back to work to to for

her to support herself? Do you see that happening anytime soon?

Uh yes, ma'am. She She making She's making some uh improvements, but it is

like with the uh physical labor at at her job that she works. I got you. Okay.

>> She hasn't been cleared yet. >> Cuz how much are you paying towards her stuff a month? A couple hundred bucks?

Uh yes, ma'am. Okay. So, yeah, so when that clears up and if she's able to get back to work, you know, that's a couple hundred bucks again freed up.

Um so, I think there's there's um yeah,

some definitely some a bright future.

And you're 21, you said?

Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Well, I'm so thankful you called Nehemiah and so encouraged by you, honestly. Like if you can learn this stuff at 21 and you're learning to chase the right things, like having a plan and you have a budget and you start saving for an emergency fund after you get out of this debt and you start investing, like all of that is in just the next four to five years for you.

I mean, you you're going to be able to do some incredible things financially. Like completely change your family tree. Like you're going to be able to to build wealth so quickly because you're getting this so young. And so, I would have some big goals, you know?

and get out of the status. Say you do that in Say Say you do that in a year and a half, okay? Maybe you kind of get a raise here or there. You get some money flowing. And so that's 18 months.

Yeah, so that'll be what, end of 2027?

Pull up the investment calculator, George. Let's just Yeah, so end of 2027,

and then your goal, Nehemiah, is to get a 3-month emergency fund, okay? So, all of your expenses, and I would include rent in that cuz I think eventually you're going to move out. And you're going to have a rented apartment or get a place, okay? So, you're going to get about a 3-month emergency fund.

And then from there you can start investing after that emergency funds and/or start saving up for a down payment to own a home one day, right?

So, so those are some There's some big goals. But, when you start investing, and let's say you start investing, Nehemiah, at 25 years old, um and say,

you know, you put, I don't know, George, what, a thousand bucks a month, right?

So, say all of this that you're doing, and and at this point you're you're maybe down a career path, you know, who knows what's happening with your income.

And say you put, you know, a thousand bucks a month aside and you're and you're investing from age 25 to 65, what

is that, George? That would be with a 10% return, $6.3 million if you consistently put a thousand bucks a month a month away.

Oh. In retirement. >> Do you know anybody that has $6.3 million in in your circle? >> No, sir. You might be the first. Nehemiah might be the one. We'll talk to you >> and and look, here's the thing, there's people with 800 credit scores who have nothing in retirement. And they're real proud of it, aren't they?

They go, "Man, I got a great interest rate on my truck." And you're going, "Dude, I've had a I got a 2008 truck I've been driving till the wheels fall off, and I'm putting every dime into investments instead of a depreciating asset." That's the kind of mentality that will cause you to be wealthy. Yeah.

And so, we are very We have a lot of confidence in you because you're so young and you've got a bright future ahead and you can knock out this debt in 18 months. >> Yes, I mean I would get I would be so motivated and to stay debt free Nehemiah for the rest of your life. You save up and pay for things. You learn to live a life where you're not sitting there trying to impress everybody else, but you're diligent, you have a plan, you have goals and uh George's George's book

Breaking Free from Broke is going to help walk through all of that for you.

So, stay on the line and Christian's going to pick up and we'll give you that as a gift and yeah, Nehemiah, we're cheering you on. We're excited for you.

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Up next, we have Austin in Indianapolis.

Hey Austin.

Hello, how are you? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

Um I my name, like you said, is Austin.

Um, I'm 28 and I have about $375,000

in debt. $375,000?

Yes, ma'am. >> include a mortgage?

Uh, yes. The mortgage is about 120-ish.

Oh, okay.

Dang. Okay, so what's the rest of the debt? The rest of the 250,000?

Like what 190 to 200 is an SBA loan on

uh my business, which is my full-time Okay. income. Is it profitable?

That's why I'm calling you guys.

Okay. >> Oh, that's not good.

So, when I purchased >> only hope to make this business profitable. Oof.

What's the business? Uh, it's it's I'm a small distributor for a snack company. I deliver to uh big

box grocery stores. Okay, what was the loan for?

Uh, the loan was was for the acq- acquisition of the business that I bought from the last individual that owned it. Oh, okay. Was it profitable when you bought it?

Yes, sir. Okay.

So, what's going on now with it?

So, basically uh

How do I word this? So, basically the the last owner of it um he was he was

doing about It's 100% commission. Um, he was doing about $15,000 a week in sales,

so he was taking home about $2,200.

Um, and since then all of the all of the stores had had resets done, so my

product presence has kind of slowed down a lot in there. Um, and I'm doing about 10,000 to 12,000

a week on a good week.

And what are you taking home from that?

Um

Uh, it It's it's not a lot. So, I'm I'm making about 15 to 1,800 dollars a week.

Okay. Where does the other $10,000 go?

So, some months I'll do like 5 or 6,000,

7,000, and then some months I'll do 10,000. So, I have I pay about $3,000 a

month just on the SBA loan for the business.

Um that's So, that's cutting into your profits. Correct. That's the bulk of it. And you're doing this full-time, 40 hours a week? >> Yes. Yes, sir. More than that, but yes.

>> Okay.

And you're making about 5 or 6K a month.

Yes. Mhm. And you've got a sizable level of debt.

What's the other 60 grand in consumer debt? About 30,000 is credit cards. Um

20 of that is just regular this and that

on my wife's credit card.

Um about 2,000 is my credit card, just regular consumer. And then 8,000 of the

rest of it is on a new HVAC system for our house that we got last year. Okay.

Does your wife work?

Uh no. We have uh three and a half children. Okay.

Uh Well, congratulations. My oldest stepson is 19. He He supports himself.

He just He lives with us. That's why I said a half. Okay. Okay. So, this is even riskier cuz you're a single income household on 100% commission.

Correct. >> guys have anything in savings?

Uh we have our $1,000 emergency fund.

And I have about $600 in my wallet of

money that was given to me by by various family members to keep gas in my truck so I can keep working.

Wow. So, are you that Is it that tight every month to where you're barely scraping by cuz you got 3,000 loan plus all the family expenses making five grand total. What's your rent or mortgage? Uh, about 1250.

So, just between the 1250 mortgage and the three grand to service the loan, you're already barely putting food on the table. Correct. Do you see an upside? Do you have a hope that this business is going

to be profitable soon? Like, do you see a an actual realistic future?

So, I have a couple more accounts, a couple more uh grocery stores that are opening up in my area. Um, one of them is going to I'll I'll probably do on the low end about $2,000 a week in sales in there.

Um, so that'll be, you know, a chunk extra, I guess. When does that happen?

Uh, in June is when they're opening.

Okay. How old are your kids?

Um, The three. >> We have the night the night the Okay, uh 12. He'll be 13 soon. And then uh my

daughter just turned seven and then my youngest son just turned three. Okay, so the three-year-old son. I'm just was wondering if your wife could jump in and do Yeah, do Yeah, do something while the kids are in school at least. Um, but the three-year-old

>> we've been talking and trying to figure out like when my three-year-old goes to school that she could go find somewhere to go. Yeah, but that's going to be in like two years unless you unless you guys are going to do a preschool or something. You know what I mean? Like, I do wonder um, just just for a six,

seven-month period. It doesn't have to be long, but for you guys an extra thousand bucks a month is a is life-changing. So, to supplement a little bit, um, my dad is also in the same business just for another company.

Um, I've kind of worked my route around to where I can spend Wednesdays with him and he's offered to to pay me some extra

totaling about like a thousand, sixteen hundred dollars a month extra. Okay. Um, >> That'll help knock out these little debts at least. >> you be working with him on on versus just in the business?

Uh because most most of my accounts are big contract accounts and a lot of his are small cash stops. Um and the big contract accounts are their receiving are all closed on Wednesdays. >> Gotcha. Gotcha.

>> have I have a couple stores that will let me come in on Wednesdays but I've just started doing those. >> Well, that's great. I mean an extra Yeah, 1,500 bucks doing that. That's going to be very helpful.

Yeah, your best bet is just to get more of these big contracts and make this business more profitable in order to have some extra. Yeah, and you and your wife also I mean this $200,000 small business loan is like but you guys need to sit down and you both need to have a date on the calendar that we can't we can't live like this for the rest of our lives. So what's the point If we're still here a year from now. >> that we eject.

We need to start having some really serious conversations about what it looks like to get out of this business because >> Cuz if you can just go work full-time making 70 or 80, it's a better bet.

Yeah. Even still having this business loan. Is there a way you could sell this business to someone else?

I could I could. Um the problem is I'm

kind of upside down. So I I owe like 190, 200 on on the business and on paper

it's probably worth about 140, 150.

Okay. Well, I mean even if you came up with a difference, it still might be worth getting out of this eventually.

Yeah. Or getting the business out What I would do is get a profitable enough Yeah. >> mean yeah, if you I mean if you hit some big accounts and you get it back going and it's actually a blessing in your life. Yeah, long-term then obviously that's the win but if if it's if you're running your wheels like this, you can't be doing this for another two, three, four years, Austin, right?

Uh yes. That That is correct.

>> Yeah, so you guys you and your wife need to sit down and just have some some

level of a plan. Some timelines. What's going to happen if this happens, here's what we'll do. If this doesn't happen, here's what we'll do.

Cuz right now >> benchmark net at this point. We need to see this and this, right? Because if the if the June accounts don't end up happening, you know, then then you're still exactly where you are. You're right.

So, there needs there needs to be some benchmarks that you guys need to be hitting. And if that's not the case, then yeah, we got to figure out what to do. Cuz like George said, even if you found something that paid 80 grand a year, you're still going to have this debt. But hopefully with this, you know, even if it even if you get it cut in half selling it for not not a lot, that's 100 grand.

And people got student loans for 100 grand, you know? You just look at it as another debt to to get out. And Austin, dear lord, please cut up the credit cards.

Yeah, that's Cut them up tonight.

The majority of the 20,000 was groceries. Do you have Do you have one? Yeah, well, get it out.

You guys got to figure out. Go shop at Aldi. Yeah. Beans and rice, rice. You don't get fancy food, right? You can't You guys can't afford it. >> And adding this guardrail is going to help you get out of this mess.

Right. And it's going to be hard. You're going to have to get creative. But once you take debt off the table, we can finally get out. >> you. Please. We got to plug the leak first. Absolutely. Yeah, you're not going to be able to get out of this mess as you continue to dig out the bottom.

So, cut them up tonight. You guys need some some extreme changes. So, I'd make a timeline and I'd cut up credit cards for the business. That's That's what I would make a timeline for the business and cut up the credit cards tonight.

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Today's question comes from Diana in Minnesota. She says, "My husband and I have just started looking at our every dollar budget together once a month. Sometimes it feels like we're just staring at our screen and have no idea how to talk about the budget. What are some strategies to use these monthly budget meetings to forward ourselves?

This is a nice question. So, Rachel, you talk a lot about the budget meeting.

At least once a month we're talking about this, sitting down. It doesn't have to be an hour, doesn't have to be dramatic. Yeah, no. So, it's I mean, when when I think about the monthly budget, honestly, I would say for us, 80% of the expenses are the same month to month. Like the categories really don't change. And then there's a there's probably five to six categories that change month to month or that we add.

>> be like activity-based, calendar-based.

Well, this thing's happening that we need to have the money >> for us, honestly, our budget meeting looks like a calendar meeting when we look ahead cuz I'm like, okay, we got, you know, this thing coming, you know, Winston has a a trip coming up with some guys for his birthday. So, it's like, hey, we have that, we got this. Like, you end up talking about, I mean, for us, the calendar, kids school stuff, uh camp sign-ups for the summer, you know, like we're we're like looking at all of these things that are going to be happening that month.

And for us it takes 5 minutes. Like our budget meetings are not long. >> Yeah, once you get in the habit of it, it's quick. >> It's so quick. Yes, but you do want to have a meeting though, I say a meeting,

but to have conversations, we do it once a year and you can do it more, to be dreaming and thinking through your long-term plans. What are the bigger goals? >> Yes. And this is probably once you're in Baby Steps 4 and beyond, right?

Cuz your big goals if Baby Steps 1 through 3 is to get out of debt, get that emergency fund. And that's that's what you're working towards. But after that, you kind of say, okay, as we're investing in retirement, we're looking to pay off the house, um what are some other goals that we have? Is there renovations around the house we want to do?

Do we need to replace a car? Do we want to go on a trip?

And then we even look out as far as down

the road and just say, if money were no option, what would we do when the kids are in high school, you know? Would we want a second home one day? You know, like we start to dream that way. We don't do anything with that, but we at least get those conversations going.

Um >> Yeah, you don't want to fast forward 10 years and now you're on very different pages cuz you never talked about it. >> Yes, that's exactly right. Yeah. So, those are >> in baby step one through three, this looks different because it's it's pretty simple.

It's how little can we live on? How much can we throw at the debt? All right, did we assign those dollars to the debts? Great.

>> We're done. Yeah. >> So, it really starts with alignment on your money values and goals before you ever look at the screen. Cuz if you don't have that, you you are just staring at a screen going, all right, what now?

We're supposed to be doing this. >> Totally. And they're not exciting. So, if you guys have been doing it for a while and you're in a routine, it may be that kind of quick boring of like, okay, we did it, check, we're moving on, right?

>> usually more excited. The the free spirit is like, oh my gosh. I ran into a couple. I was sitting next to them at a coffee shop and they had their EveryDollar budget pulled up and they were doing their budget meeting.

With you sitting next to them?

I I felt like I was undercover boss.

>> I was going to say, how's it going?

>> anything. >> How's it working? How's it going? >> to make it weird. Like, hey, I noticed you guys were doing your EveryDollar budget. Can I help? >> need any help, any assistance. >> That would have been hilarious. This is me, George Campbell. >> wow, look at this couple actually budgeting. They're having a good time. They have their fancy coffees. And they're doing great. >> talking about what's going on this month. >> Yeah, looking ahead. I love it. Yep, hope that helps, Diana.

All right, let's go to Jessica in Richmond. Hi, Jessica.

Hi, Rachel. Hi, George. >> Hi, welcome to the show. How can we help?

So, my mom and I want to sell our homes and buy one together, but I think I'll need to use at least some of her savings in order to achieve that and I wonder if that's a bad idea.

Where do we start with the bad ideas you just listed off? Well, what what's going on here with the codependency of you and mom buying homes together?

Well, I'm going through my second divorce. She is widowed. She's 65 retiring this summer. She has limited mobility and we had a really bad ice storm here this winter and it was hard for her to take care of the house and the ice and the driveway and still try to get into work. I had to do the same to my house all by myself and so I figured that way we can take care of each other if we get a house together.

Got it. So you are kind of partial caretaker and you're coming off of this divorce and you're kind of needing a safe place to land and have some emotional moral support.

I guess you could say that. Okay. Uh are you an only child, Jessica?

I am. >> Okay. Well, that's helpful. I was going to say because you know, if you guys have this plan long-term and the house is left to you, right? I

don't know it's civil I don't know how that was going to work with all the the will and the estate and everything, but that kind of simplifies it. Do you see living with her for the foreseeable future or are you going to want to own a home yourself?

Well, she was going to put everything in my name so it would basically be like she's just living with me until

until she goes to the Lord.

Okay. So why not just you buy a house on your own?

I would like to do that. The problem is I don't think I have enough money. Um I currently have a home. Um it's a townhouse and I think I can only get about 190,000 if I sell it and try to

get a bigger home so that I can accommodate her, but with doing that the mortgage is going to be too much for just my income. Okay. And does she have income right now?

She does, but with her retiring in the summer, that income is basically going to go away and we don't know when social security and her 401k distributions will come in. Mhm. What would she get if she sells her home?

We're hoping she can get 200,000.

Okay. I'm I just think this is going to be a lot cleaner and simpler and less dramatic if one person owns the home.

That's what we were thinking, too. >> So maybe she pays toward the mortgage while she lives there, almost like she's paying you some rent out of her profits.

Well, we were thinking that. I was just thinking with paying off the house in case something happens like I lose my job. I didn't want us to have a mortgage payment over our heads. So, that's why I was thinking if we could just pay off the house all together, we have no debt.

Oh, just buy buy it outright is what you're saying. Exactly. So, she would use her profits and give them to you as almost like a gift. >> almost like that's part of your Yes.

Part of your inheritance you're getting early while she's alive.

Correct. So, the worry that we were having is selling my home first, putting the 190 down on a house, and maybe using some of her savings. She has 100,000 in savings. Maybe using about half of that to put a lot down on the house so the mortgage is decent for me to use while we wait for her house to sell because there is some work that needs to be done on it.

Oof.

How much does she have total in liquid assets right now?

Uh 400,000. Okay. What's in her 401k?

Uh she has a 401k in the amount of

uh 265,000 and then she has 164,000

in her government TSP. She's currently a government worker. Okay. So, about 420

or so in retirement another 400 in cash.

Right. >> in a pretty decent spot. What I don't want to do is deplete her money to pay off this mortgage and now she has no retirement and now you're funding her life forever.

I I wouldn't mind. That was one of the things I was thinking. It's like, "Well, come in. You know, we'll we'll get a house together. If you don't have income for a year while we're waiting on Social Security, that's all right. If we have no mortgage, I'll have the money to be able to afford our food and utilities."

Yeah, Yeah, just signing up for this this is it. You are signing up for to cover her bills for the rest of her life. And if you're okay with that, that's fine. But you also have to realize you have a life to live, too, and you could get remarried one day, right? I don't know. I'm not going to take a third marriage. I don't think I'm doing this again. I mean, never say never.

Yeah. Just saying, third marriages exist.

And so that's my fear is you marry this guy, he goes, "Hey, listen, you're moving into my house. Now Mom is living in your house, I guess, rent-free, or she needs to be a care You know, you need to be a caretaker, she moves in with you." >> Yeah, it just seems like a big I mean, a house is the you know, it it is probably the largest financial purchase, right, that you're going to make and she won't have cuz I would not put it in her name.

But if she called us, I'm trying to think what I would be telling her, right? What's best What's best for Mom um in the situation.

as well.

Next up, we have Elizabeth in Seattle, Washington. Hi, Elizabeth.

Hi, Rachel. How you doing? >> Hi, we're doing great. How can we help today?

So, my question is I've got family members that are moving across the United States. So, we live in Washington. It's pretty it's pretty spending here. I got an uncle that's moving him his family members all to Tennessee. They're trying to convince us to go with them.

I was wondering how the numbers pencil out when you decide to move like that.

What do you mean What do you mean by numbers?

So, like I mean here my husband makes

good money. I make pretty decent money part-time. He's got really good insurance. He works for a union.

Um and so right now he's making 45 an hour.

Well, we'll use that as the number. Okay. >> And if we move to Tennessee they my

uncle was like, "Oh, you can make 25 an hour." But the the cost of living is different over there. And we don't have

any job lined up. I just I'm kind of

curious if we're going to miss the miss the mark if that makes sense.

>> Why do you have to go when he goes?

>> Are you struggling right now? Are you guys struggling financially?

>> No. No, we're in a good spot. That's why that's why it's hard cuz it's more of an emotional attachment to go cuz

the the uncle that's moving is one of my like closer relatives if that makes sense. Sure, yeah. So, >> But there's no urgency here. You guys could find jobs >> No. and then move. Yeah, you can use a like we have a cost of living calculator on our website and you can start to go, "Okay, you could probably make 75 instead of 90 and it'd be about the same lifestyle because we have no state income tax in Tennessee and cost of living is a little cheaper than Seattle.

And so you can start to do the math on that and do some research ahead of time instead of just winging it. >> and like every state depending on which part of the state you move to is going to be different, right? You go to Jackson, Tennessee, that's going going cheaper than parts of Nashville, Tennessee, right? >> that our studio here is in, it's one of the top 10 wealthiest counties in the nation.

And so, you would come here and go, "Oh my gosh, Seattle was cheaper.

That makes sense, and that's kind of where I was at because our our mortgage right now up here is very low. We're sitting at 2,000 a month, and our income

covers that. It's not too hard to save around it. We've got a decent amount in retirement. My big thing is I don't want to sell our house just to move somewhere else cuz we're going to be in the same boat. >> Elizabeth, it sounds like you don't want to move. You don't have to.

>> It sounds like you're planning to I think you're okay. I think you're okay. >> a couple of trips a year to Tennessee to see Uncle. >> Yeah, you're fine. >> the simpler move right now. And if you fall in love with it and you find a job here and get the job, well, now we can talk about moving. Yeah, but that's a that could happen in 2 to 3 years. You know what I mean? If you if you Guys, love it.

I've had a couple people trying to convince me. My best friend moved to like rural New York. She wants me to come over there. We've got some relatives in Pennsylvania.

Um now >> Just move everywhere.

It sounds like you're a free spirit. You've got a lot of good friends, you know? They all want to hang with you.

I got a lot of people, and I'm the second oldest of 12 children. Wow.

>> Good night. Okay, what does your husband say? What's he want to do?

My my husband is is more of a go-with-the-flow kind of a person. He hasn't said, "Let's move." He kind of goes, "Sounds kind of like a good idea, but I don't know." >> So, your friends are convincing you, and then it's your job to convince him, and then we'll just move around the country. >> Yeah, I I'm not feeling The The main reason people call, and it's usually a Washington, a California, like we'll we'll get we get certain parts of the country, and they're like, "I can't afford to live here. We can't buy a home.

We can't X Y and Z." And so, they move to further their income in order to do the things that they want to do. It sounds like you've done everything you want to do. You have the house that you want. You guys have great jobs, all of it.

It's just going to look you may just look up in a year or two and be like, "Man, I miss our family. So we want to move closer to them in Tennessee." And maybe that's what you decide to do. But you're not That's not pulling you right now. I don't have any compelling reasons to say yes, you should move.

Yeah, so I would I would just hold tight, Elizabeth. Calm down. Nothing is on fire. And let the Tennessee people move.

yeah, go visit them a couple of times a year and see if you guys still have this itch, you know, a year from now. And if you do, then you're both adults and you guys get to make a decision then that we want to look for jobs and move. But I would not do anything now because nothing is on fire. All right, let's go to Hannah in Dallas. Hi Hannah, welcome to the show.

Hi, how are y'all? Hi, we're doing great. How can we help?

Okay, so we've been advised by a couple different people in regards to selling our home that we should not put the 20%

down on the next home cuz we'll have a pretty good amount of equity selling our house. We're moving closer to our church and our community and our kids' schools.

So we will have a good amount of money to put towards our new house and they're saying not to put 20% down, but to save it and like fix the house up really nice and then in 6 months do a like a reappraisal or a recast or something like that to make our value then go up.

And so my husband and I are like, it's kind of like a game and we don't we don't know whether we should play it. Who When you say we're being told, who are these people?

Um so we've gotten a couple different uh well, for one, our realtor has told us this. He's like, "This is what we did with our last house and it's got us We went from like $1,000 extra every month and now we've taken that off of our mortgage every monthly or whatever." And then we talked to a couple different banks and like credit unions. They're like, "Yeah, that sounds like a great idea." So, we're just like, "I don't know if it is a great idea." Well, of course a bank is going to want you to put less down to take out more on the loan.

Um yeah, yeah, but like what does our realtor gain from us doing that?

>> Well, the realtor they're If you ever met a realtor, their risk meters are broken. They don't think in terms of I'm going to put cash into a thing. They go, "How little can I put into a thing to squeeze the most out?" And so, I wouldn't be listening to either of these people. I would just go, "Can we actually afford this home based on the number we're putting down?" And so, have you done the the numbers on that? Is there a house that you've already been looking at?

Yeah, so there's a house like we our our house is selling like this weekend or this next weekend and then the house we're buying is significantly lower. So, it needs like updated flooring and stuff, but we would make like $115,000

off the sale of our home for the person who sold us this next home. Okay. So, we have a really good amount that we could like put towards the house, but everyone's like, "You should hold on to that and fix the house up now nice now that you have a chance to." Well, you'll always have the chance to.

The question is how urgent are the renovations and can you just cash flow them once you're in? Cuz here's the thing, if you put more down, your mortgage is lower, meaning you have more margin every month to then cash flow the renovations.

But they're saying and like if we could have that higher monthly payment for like 6 months, then you have a higher value home and then your your mortgage will go back low. So, like I'm I'm always like >> on that part. Just because your home value goes up doesn't mean your mortgage payment goes down.

Cuz then it takes off the PMI is what they're saying. Cuz I can't if we don't put 20 down, we get the PMI and then we can get like 200 off our monthly every month is what they're saying. >> Got it because you have yes, because the debt-to-income ratio. You'll have more than 20% equity at that point based on

the value of the home. Okay, well, you could just avoid the PMI entirely by putting the 20% down and cash flowing the renovations.

Yeah, that makes sense when I'm on the phone with y'all, but I don't know how to say Well, the other piece of this is they don't know your finances. They don't know what 80% of on the mortgage is going to cost you every month and if that's feasible for your take Yeah, how much is the new home you guys are buying?

It's 325.

It's probably what we about what we would end up what we offered and what they accepted and all of that 325. Okay, so yeah, so you guys are putting down almost a third.

I almost 30% right if you put the 115.

Um What's your take home pay every month?

Uh my husband I stay home but my husband brings right at seven 7,000. Okay,

great. So based on that, if you look at the parameter of you know, fourth of your take home pay you're looking at 1750 is the goal. Even putting 115,000 down on a

325 house with the current rates, you're probably looking at uh 2200 2300 dollar

mortgage.

So here's the other thing they're not thinking about. >> within the parameters is what you're saying. It's tight. Now we say the 25% of take home pay that's after taxes but before any other deductions. So not don't include the health care premiums, the 401k contributions which will help your numbers here.

Okay. So I think you guys can do this but I would be putting all of the proceeds down on the next house. Yeah, cuz the goal is just to get out of debt as fast as possible and so when you're when you sit there and kind of just play all these games and move the numbers around praying that the that the interest rates and all everything are still going down right? Like you just don't know.

So If your husband income goes down, well now you still have to stuck with this high payment.

>> Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm Rachel Cruze hosting this hour with George Camel and we are taking your calls at 888-825-5225.

Up next we have Lynn in Mobile, Alabama.

Hi Lynn, welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. I'm I'm honored to talk with y'all today. Oh, well thank you for calling. How can we help?

Um my husband and I we are retired and we're doing fine.

Uh we have recently found out that uh

one of our granddaughters and her husband, they're in their early 20s,

are about $20,000 in debt and that

includes a car they owe $7,000 on

and it needs about $2,000 worth of work

in order to run.

Um my husband and I are at odds on what to do. Um one of us says we do nothing. We we they need to

learn how to handle money just like we did. >> That's your husband? >> Um yes, yes.

He's old school. And sweet Lynn, what do you want to do, Lynn?

Uh my suggestion is we give them Financial

Peace University and once they complete

that, then we give them, I don't know,

four or five thousand dollars to help start them to get out of debt.

Are they both working?

They are both working. They they make, my guess is, between 50 and 60 thousand dollars together. Okay.

Um Part of his concern is that they will spend the money on tattoos or more

animals or >> More animals? How many they got?

>> Yeah. They have a dog and a cat in an apartment. Oh, okay. So they're renting right now. And it sounds like he sees a pattern of financial misbehavior and he doesn't want to fund that misbehavior and enable it. That's correct. So I see his point and I also see your point in wanting to help your own granddaughter get a leg up in her adult life.

Yes. And no more tattoos.

How many they got? Are they tatted up?

I'm just kidding. Several.

Our joke amongst my husband and I is we can either spend the money or we can save it for them to buy more tattoos.

Okay, so Lynn, I love Are they asking for help?

No. Okay. So you're just seeing this play out. Um >> Yes. But she's told you cuz you know the numbers. Or did her mom tell you Did your daughter your daughter son Is this the gossip mill?

Yes, their their their the granddaughter's mother told us. Okay.

Um are the What are the What are they saying? Like her parents.

Your kids. What what are they saying?

Yeah, they they're not They just told us as a course of conversation.

>> Okay. So no one is panicked right now.

There's not They're not looking to change. They're not Yeah, I mean

I mean honestly Lynn, the the most I would do is gift them Financial Peace University and just say, I would I would

watch this if I were you guys. This This helped us and you know, tell them a little bit about your story, but I mean you You stick a hundred dollar bill on it. especially if they're not asking for anything, right? It'd be one thing if they called up grandma and grandpa and they were like, "Hey, I need help.

off a thousand.'" You know, you you can kind of like work with them to encourage them a little bit, but they're not even wanting to change, I don't think, Lynn.

Yeah, I I don't I don't think that they see the benefit in changing and I don't think they have any idea how much we have.

Are you guys pretty well off?

I I I mean, we're comfortable. Our our net worth is probably between 3 and 3 and 1/2 million. Way to go.

>> Well done. Yeah, Lynn, I I think as a grandparent, a gift like Total Money Makeover or Financial Peace University, I think is great. I think that's a great idea. Just to be like, "Hey, this is a this is a program when it comes to money that really helps and if you guys ever get stressed and you want to learn something, here's this." But that's I >> I wish I knew this stuff sooner, so I want to give this to you guys.

Yeah, and just say, "You could You guys could kill it financially. You're young, you're hard workers and if you actually create some good habits, you guys could really do well financially. You don't have to be stuck in debt." You know, you can give them a little pep talk, but I mean, if they're not looking to change, Lynn, I think that's the I think that's probably one of the hardest parts of life that you you know better than George and myself cuz you have lived you have lived longer lives than a longer life than us, but um when you see someone in your life who's making decisions that's not great for them, that's not fun to sit there and watch, but also knowing that you're not able to change them at all and they have not hit this point where life has been hard enough for them to say, "Well, what I'm doing isn't working." But that's not happening.

Okay. Other than enable it like your husband is worried about that. I think there's a higher chance they blow the money that you give them. So, if there's a tangible need that you want to cover and you can give directly to that, you know, if it's >> But they're not even asking for >> But they're not asking for it. They're not destitute. So, giving them a grocery store gift card is not going to help that much.

So, I think the truth is we're learning, you're learning that you can't change people as much as you want them to have a better life. It's up to them to go get that life.

But now my issue is I can't tell my husband he won.

I wouldn't I'm in fact, Lynn, I would not tell him he won. >> Yeah, just you you just say you know, just don't even bring it up. Yeah, don't even don't don't tell him. Don't Do not tell him you called. So, he doesn't go and listen to this, you know.

We're trying to We're trying to save face for you, Lynn. How long have you guys been married? >> I'm kidding. Um 30-something years. Yeah, that'll do

it. He probably needs a win. Just let him have this one. It's probably been a while.

I love this. You're so fun to talk to, Lynn. >> And I love the heart behind this. >> I know cuz it is hard when you're like, well, these are being stupid.

Why are they being stupid? >> And I'm picturing this being like my granddaughter, you know, like I wouldn't want to help them. >> on. Don't do this.

Um that's a hard that's a hard hard place. But you know what, Lynn? Stay in good relationship with them. Love them.

Be part of their lives cuz when they do hit a wall, which I think eventually they will, they're going to go Gosh, I wonder what Grandma Lynn would say. Grandma Lynn, what would she say? And then then you get to da da da da come in with all the wisdom that they're looking for. All right, let's go to Margaret in San Antonio.

Hi, Margaret.

Hi. Uh thanks for having me. Yes, how can we help?

I have a question. We have one vet and

it's our car. Um it's right at 23,000 that we have left on it. Um I think that we have about 9,000 in a

high yield savings account and then we also have a 1,000 in another savings account. So we have 10,000 total right now. Okay. >> We recently, because we have like a custody thing that kind of just pops off

whenever the ex-spouse feels like dragging us into court for fun. We have to drop between like 7 and 10,000 dollars on a lawyer and we recently had to do that. Mhm. back in November. Okay.

So you're wondering should I use this to pay down the car loan or should we hang on to it? Yeah, I would hang on to it.

If you know this is a likely thing. I don't want you going to debt for lawyers when we saw this coming. So I'd hang on to it for now until the coast is Yeah, and then when there's a while of a season that you guys know that yeah, you're in the clear then take that and pay it off. But if you have extra money coming in Margaret, be throwing that at the car. But if you want to keep this side for custody battle with the lawyers, that probably would be smart until until all that's cleared.

When I talk to people on the Ramsey show, 90% of the problems I hear come down to one thing, not having a plan.

They're not living on a budget. They have no idea where their money's going.

Money is just happening to them instead of them happening to their money. And guys, that is so normal, but it doesn't have to be normal for you. And that's why I want you to go download our EveryDollar budget app. EveryDollar not only helps you tell your money where to go with a budget, it also builds a plan

to free up extra money so you can pay debt off faster and start building wealth. And the best part, your plan is completely personalized to your life.

It's the same advice that you would get if you called the show, and it's right in your pocket. So, don't keep living it normal. Go download the EveryDollar app, answer a few questions, and get your plan today.

So, Ask Ramsey is our new free AI tool

that's been built. It's been trained on proven Ramsey principles, and today we're going to break down one of the most frequently asked questions that we got last week, George. You ready?

>> All right. The question is, "What are the key considerations and steps for managing Trump accounts for kids?" Love

it. Let's see what Ask Ramsey said about this, cuz this is a question we do get a lot. The Trump savings account is a tax-deferred account funded by a one-time $1,000 government deposit for

eligible children born between 2025 and 2028. Follow the government's official process to set up the account in your child's name. You'll be the custodian until they reach the legal age. Like other custodial accounts, when your child reaches that age, they gain full access and control, and they can use the money for anything, not just education.

So, it becomes like a traditional IRA of sorts at that point. There are no ongoing contribution requirements, but you should check if you're allowed to add more funds or invest the balance for growth. Consider the impact on future college financial aid, as these accounts may be counted as the child's asset.

There we go. So, bottom line here, Trump account can be a great boost for I'll take the free thousand bucks. So, that's I signed up for when I did my tax return. >> I guess, that got it? >> Henry got it. >> Henry got it. Look at that.

Sorry, Mia. Yeah, she didn't she >> Your Yeah, your three-year-old did not two-year-old did not get it.

But, this is just one part of the child's financial foundation. so don't think this is like your ticket. And the key is you got to invest for compound growth to take the lead, but starting at zero years old, I did the math. You leave a thousand bucks just sitting there for 65 years, it could be half a million or more. Yeah, that's crazy.

>> After retirement, so it becomes a bonus retirement account, which is great. But, I love a 529 plan for the tax advantages for education, and even a brokerage account in my name for the kids, because I don't necessarily want an 18-year-old have access to a hundred thousand dollars. I know I wouldn't have made the best decisions at that age, so it's a piece of the puzzle. It's not a savior for anybody.

So, if you want to know the best way to invest based on your situation, check out Ask Ramsey. He can help you break down how much to contribute monthly. Go to ramseysolutions.com or just use the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

All right, let's go to Salt Lake City, and we have David on the line. Hi, David. Welcome to the show.

Hey, guys. Big fan, and God bless. Thank you for taking my call. >> Yeah, absolutely. How can we help?

Yeah, so my fiance and I are getting married in June, and we're looking at a honeymoon here, and there's an all-inclusive trip to Mexico. It's about six thousand dollars. I make between around a hundred K to a hundred and ten a year. My fiance makes about seventy-four, so all together about one seventy-five to one eighty. Thank you.

Um I got about forty K in savings {slash} an emergency fund, about thirty K in stocks and an IRA. Uh we own both our cars outright, and we're we're looking to buy a home in the new near future, too. Uh so, I just want to know if this six thousand dollar trip makes sense, or if if we're being too frivolous over here, and um so, yeah.

Being too frivolous. Okay, I was going to go the opposite. Uh David, I think you could >> Rachel's like up it to eight thousand.

>> could spend a little bit more if you wanted. Uh I think you're doing great.

No, that's very fiscally responsible.

>> David, that's great. I think that is Yes, you guys are on on a great track.

Nothing feels out of balance to me at all. You're debt-free, you got an emergency fund. You guys are making upwards of $200,000 as a newlywed couple, you're going to look back and say I'm so glad we took the trip.

>> Yes, absolutely. >> Just make sure you're paying cash and not putting it on the credit card.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. All right, well, we'll do. We watch the show, so we've learned a lot from you guys. Oh, awesome. Well, congratulations and yeah, enjoy that all-inclusive trip to Mexico.

>> We got to be good cop. That felt really nice. >> Oh, I love when I tell people just go spend and enjoy. Enjoy your hard work.

>> right? She loves a trip, loves a trip to Mexico. And I love a >> Loves newlywed love. >> for a trip, you know, like a honeymoon or a birthday or an anniversary. Like that's that's fun. It's great.

>> You'll look back fondly on that. >> You will. Yep, y'all enjoy, David. All right, Georgia and I might show up and just be like Party! >> Hi there. All right, let's go to Amanda in Des Moines. Hi, Amanda. Welcome to the show.

Hi. Hello, hello. How can we help today?

Oh my gosh, I'm so nervous. Okay, um You are good. You are good. Do not be nervous. >> I am calling.

Um we have been on Baby Step Two and we

have so far paid off about 30,000 in

debt in the last year. We have four left and we have one that's been in consolidation or um in delinquent, so it's in collections.

And they called and gave me a settlement. They gave me a settlement.

The loan itself right now is sitting at 10,500 and they gave me a settlement of 6,000.

And they said I'd have to have that paid off in 30 days.

If I don't have it paid off, they tack on 55% interest on >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a bad deal.

>> So my question is is should I take another loan to pay that off with a

smaller interest rate? No. So we have some time to take to make the payments on >> No, because you can get this deal anytime because it's in collections. So they're going to end up >> They're trying to put some pressure on you. >> Yes, they'll end up selling the debt to another company. You'll be dealing with a different collections company. So, that that is the key though, when you do settle a debt for less. And usually you'll probably get a better deal, honestly, Amanda. Did you even try to negotiate the 6,000?

I Well, that's what I negotiated cuz I

was like >> Okay, cuz you could even gone lower. For some of Yeah, for some of this, yeah, you could have even possibly gone lower.

But, you do have to have it in full. You have to like It's a lump sum. >> Yes, so >> can tell them, "Hey, you and I both know $6,000 in 30 days lump sum is crazy. I I

can't do that." >> I can't I just say I can't do this deal right now. And then, when you guys get to that part of your debt snowball, is that your next debt? Your next smallest?

>> That is, yep. >> Okay, so what I would do then is I would save as much as you can and say I mean, pay the amount payment, don't get behind on it necessarily, but well, I guess you're already kind of work cuz it's in collections, but I would have a I would have an amount and and have $4,138.24, and you call them

and say, "This is the exact amount I have. I can write you a check today." And so, when you have a good when you have a decent amount in there, a couple of thousand or so, I would call them up and start negotiating, but I would not take a deal until you have the amount, the total amount. >> And make sure you get it in writing and have it settled in full. Yes.

No interest, no games. And you know, it sounds like you've been putting away 2,500 toward the debt. So, in 2 months, you'll have five grand, right?

Right, yep. That's great.

>> months from now, you call them and say, "Hey, listen, I got five grand. Take it or leave it." Yeah, so just don't do it don't do that deal today.

Okay. Okay. Yep. That's great, Amanda. Well done.

Way to clean up the mess. >> Awesome. Yes, oh my gosh. Y'all are killing it. All right, let's go to Alex in Los Angeles. Hi, Alex. Welcome to the show.

Hi, thanks for having me on the show.

Yes, absolutely. How can we help?

Uh so, earlier in this month, I beat stage three rectal cancer. Oh my gosh.

Oh. I'm so glad.

Feel like a huge fear that it's going to come back, and it sounds like a high possibility. And if it comes back, it's going to happen within the first five years, more likely than later.

Of course, no one can predict the future.

Um So, I have steps one, three, and four down, and I'm stuck on either going all on for step two, or going to step five.

So, I have a baby that's about to turn one. Mhm. Um, and I want to put into a 529 for him, but I also have a hundred grand in student loan debt.

Um, I don't know if I should aggressively pay off the student loan debt, or aggressively put into a 529 for him. Thinking that if I pass, you or my

husband can't inherit my student loan debt.

Um, yes, that would be correct. But, as

of today, the information that you have is that you are cancer-free.

Right? And I understand that it's a high probability that it's going to come back, cuz that's what they told you.

Yes, um, they say colorectal cancer is the highest cause of death in people under 50. Yes. Yeah, the Yeah, the rates are

actually, I was just talking to my doctor about this yesterday. It's crazy, cuz it Yes, they said it's skyrocketed, um with young people. So, um So, if I were you, Alex, I I probably would start paying down this debt. And

the 529, um, because he's so young, you're going to be able to catch him up college-wise,

um, over the over 18 years, right?

You're going to When you guys are completely debt-free, um, I so I I probably would not worry about that. I think I would have the information that's in front of me and live off of that, which is, right now, that you are debt-free.

Or, I'm sorry, that you are cancer-free, and I would start, yeah, working my way out of this. >> with the problem in front of you, which is a hundred grand in student loans. You still got to make those payments every month. We'll deal with the 18-year-old, you know, problem way later on, and family can be gifting money over time at birthdays and Christmas into this 529 plan.

So, it's not all on you, but let's take care of you you and your household first, and then we'll focus on the kids once we're debt-free. >> Yeah, we're so happy for you, though, Alex. Something to celebrate.

Hey guys, I've got big news. The Ramsey Show is going on tour, and this is your chance to be more than just a listener.

You get to be part of the show. So, hear questions asked live and experience the kind of momentum that only comes from being in the room. We'll be in Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim

with a limited number of seats in each city. So, last fall, we completely sold out in 72 hours. So, do not wait. Get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events or by clicking the link in the show notes.

The Ramsey Show is going on tour. So,

this April, we are headed to Charlotte, Denver, Phoenix, and Anaheim,

California, Southern California. And you guys have never experienced the Ramsey Show like this. It is the perfect date night because one of you is a spender, probably one of you is a saver. So, come and enjoy because we take your questions live.

We do the show basically live with the studio audience and you guys are the callers. You know, you get to come and ask your question. >> caveat, you don't have to be on camera, on mic. You can just attend and be in the crowd.

>> great point. Yes. >> can so choose and it's more fun if you get up there and have >> involve the audience. >> settle the debate and we have the audience interact.

>> yeah. It's so fun. So >> good time. Uh it's me, George of course, John, Jade, and Ken.

And we're all at different cities. So >> It's a trio in each city.

Which ones are you at? >> I'm on Charlotte and Anaheim.

>> Oh yeah, we're together in two. That's fun, George. Uh so don't wait. Go to ramseysolutions.com/events or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Um there's only a few seats remaining and I think a couple of VIP tickets are still available in each city. They'll probably be sold out here in the next day or two. >> cool venues, little theaters, not arenas, so It's so fun, you guys.

>> out fast. >> Yep. So go and get your tickets at ramseysolutions.com/events and we will see you in those cities.

All right, let's head to Amy in Fort Worth. Hi Amy, welcome to the show.

Hey, thank you for having me. Um I appreciate the opportunity.

Yes, absolutely.

>> Yes. So long story short is um I feel

like God brought me this amazing man. I love my marriage. Um I want to stay married forever. Now, financially we are

very both immature.

Um the fault lies on both of us.

So we've never had joint bank accounts.

Um I've asked previously about it and he

didn't want to do it. So I was just kind of like, whatever, I'll just deal with it. But we really come into some problems.

Um one day I came home and there's a vehicle, a new vehicle at our apartment.

I thought it was a joke, but it was not a joke.

And then he's also booked like multiple vacations without discussing it with me.

But on the flip side, I'm no better.

Um So I was staying for my sister's car.

Uh for quite a long time, probably a year to help her out. And um so he never

knew about it. And then also

um so I signed up well, I volunteered to

pay for my mother's like pre-funeral arrangements.

Pre-funeral? Like she hasn't passed?

No, she hasn't passed. Um so she's old

though. She's She's in her 70s and

um she doesn't really have any money. So what had happened was my brother had passed away and she got like a settlement.

And so she paid for the funeral with part of it and then just like blew the rest of it.

Okay. Okay, so what what are you wanting, Amy?

So whenever So he's on vacation right now, my husband, but >> With who?

By himself. That's not a thing.

Amy, I think he's cheating on you.

Mhm.

Guys don't do R&R on their own to get away on a trip.

And I think that's part of why he's been so cagey about combining finances and so

against it.

I think the parts you know are the tip of the iceberg.

You think so?

I think so.

How many of these trips does he do a year?

Uh well, this was the first one, but there's two more planned.

By himself?

Yeah.

Where Where he tell you he's going?

Um they're cruises

to different places.

Does he not invite you?

Amy, does it worry Does that worry you at all? Is that weird to you?

It's a little weird to me.

>> have y'all been married?

Um so we've been married for 5 years.

This is both our second marriage.

>> Okay. Do y'all have kids?

Uh we have four together. So um I have

two, he has two. Oh, from the previous marriages? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Um

So the one that's going to come out towards the end of this year I was he didn't want me to go and then

one day I was like, "I'm going to go." And then the next day he was like, "Did you book it?" And I said, "Well, no. I was just kind of messing with you." And he's like, "Well, I don't know how to tell you this, but I don't want you to go." Amy, Amy, this is not a marriage.

>> good. You know that, right?

I mean, I know it. I just don't know how to address it and like regardless of whatever's going on,

I want to be married forever.

I don't know if it's going to be to him.

Cuz he doesn't want to be married to you and he's made that clear by continually

cheating on you behind your back going on these cruises. >> and just not wanting a life with you, not wanting to share any level of information,

making his own decisions, making purchases, and and to and what you said too, you know, you're doing the same. Yeah, I I I don't know.

I think what I would probably do in this situation, Amy, I'm not sure you would do. But if I woke up in your shoes,

there would be an absolute cancel

of all trips going forward that are solo.

Okay. As well as I want to see every

transaction that you have been making financially.

Cuz when you are financially hide money, there's usually another person involved.

There's an addiction involved. Like there are not good things. You don't hide money >> Mhm. because you're really smart and kind person, right? Like no. You're hiding money cuz it's deceitful. You're putting it in the dark.

It's not in the light.

There's no freedom in that.

And so I would um yeah, I would I would be I would I would demand such specific documentation Mhm. on everything. I would get cell phone record I mean I would cuz I I would be convinced that there's somebody else. Um Do you have money of your own? Are you working full-time?

Oh, yeah. I work full-time. Okay.

I mean, I would be at least hiring a a

private investigator just to get some info if you can't get it yourself.

Just to verify cuz we're making some assumptions. I think they're >> 100% Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you just want some verification cuz it seems like you are going to be in denial until you have hard proof. >> don't tell him and you show up with a camera and I think you could probably sell some content online.

But I can't in good faith tell you to stay married to someone who's constantly committing infidelity.

Yeah.

What I'm saying is I don't know what you you you you know, we'll get off this call Amy and you have to decide the life that you want for you. And I want you Amy to have self-respect, to be loved by

somebody, and taken care of by somebody who loves Amy. You are worth more than this. >> So then to live your life looking over your shoulder all the time. And again, people do and people make decisions and that is that's not my free reign. People get mad cuz they think that we keep telling people to get divorced when they get cheated on you know, when we say this stuff we're like I'd leave the marriage.

So you you have to decide for Amy what you um what you want, but I don't think you have a marriage, Amy.

Okay. I don't think you have a godly You do not have a godly husband who is loving and serving you well.

Right. Like if you want to talk scripture, we can talk scripture, but that's not what's happening. And so, I want you to have the self-dignity to be able to say that that yeah, I'm worth more than that to be treated like this.

And I would yeah, I mean I would I would do what you could to find out what's going on. The private investigator thing ain't a bad idea, George, if you just want some answers, but you may not you may not want it. I don't know.

But I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry, Amy. That is so hard.

>> you're going through this.

Yeah, no. Thank you all so much. The best thing you can do is just start to kind of protect yourself and and create your own little island so that you're okay financially if you did leave this marriage you would be able to. >> not combine finances with this man, though. Nope. He's not safe.

>> time when you Yeah, we want couples to work together. >> would anyways. He's made that clear. >> not asking for it. Um

Gosh, Amy, I'm so sorry.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here. Every day on this show we help people work through real money problems and figure out what to do next. Now, you can get that same kind of help anytime with Ask Ramsey.

Ask your money question and get answers built on Ramsey principles we use on the

show. Whether you're making a decision or just want something explained, Ask Ramsey is here to help. It's fast, simple, and free to use. Go to

ramseysolutions.com and try Ask Ramsey today. That's ramseysolutions.com.

Our scripture of the day comes from Psalms, Psalm 1:1.

Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers. Mhm. Um Chuck Norris passed

away. For those of you that didn't know.

>> At 86. 86 years old. And

>> we have a good quote for >> a quote for you here.

From Chuck Norris. A lot of people give up just before they're about to make it.

You know, you never know when that next obstacle is going to be the last one.

Oh. That's apropos.

Oh my goodness. >> great uh memes, too.

>> The well, the Chuck Norris-isms. Let me see if I can get one here from producer James.

>> When Chuck Norris got to heaven, he had to tell the angels at the gates to fear not. Chuck Norris. That's good. That's strong. Does producer James have one for us? I know he was a big fan of the Norris-isms. My thing isn't on.

Yeah, I just heard you >> hear me? Okay, the lights are >> There we go. You're live on the air, James. >> said um that Chuck Norris has actually been dead for 5 years, but death just mustered up the courage to tell him. Oh. Now, that's a perfect one for today. That's a Chuck Norris-ism. >> RIP. Oh, Chuck. Man, well.

It's a sad day. Sad day. The kids out there probably don't even know about Walker, Texas Ranger.

You know what? I bet they don't. I bet that ended when? In the '90s? When did that end? >> were probably the last era >> that was hip to it. >> Oh my gosh.

All right, let's head to uh San Francisco and we have Ryan on the line.

Hi, Ryan.

Hey, thanks for having me, guys. >> Yes, absolutely. How can we help you?

Hey, so my wife and I own five rental properties and they're doing great. We have absolutely no problems. They're all profitable. Um the original plan was that we keep buying and hopefully we have 10, 20, 30 and then live off of those and retire soon. Um recently I've been kind of

looking into more investing and switching things up. And so when I was kind of crunch the numbers, I was trying to figure out if I should sell two of those and put that money, which would be almost about a million dollars, into like the S&P 500 and get that return of

you know, that 10% and if it makes sense to do that or not. Or if we should just stick to our game plan of just gung-ho buying houses and keep going. Yeah, do you guys um have any money invested in retirement or is it everything in rental properties? No, we do. I mean, we have our 401ks that are probably about 120,000 combined so far. We're She's 30, I'm 34. Okay. Um I also have,

you know, 30,000 in S&P 500 now and some

in crypto and stuff like that and probably like 20 grand cash on hand and stuff like that. So we're we kind of have a couple different spaces. >> Uh-huh. Are the homes paid for, Ryan?

No, well, one of them is paid for. So we we got very blessed last year we inherited a house.

Um that one's worth about $700,000.

Okay. And it's completely paid off and we make about It's 2950 a month that we make off of that house alone. Okay, how much do you owe on the other properties, the other four? >> The other Um, another one is paid off. Oh, good.

>> them is 279, another is like 326.

Mhm. Um, and the one that's at 279, it's a duplex, so counting that one as two.

Okay. Um, we I was thinking about selling the one that's has the 279 cuz

it's worth about 600, so >> With Yeah, so with those two would be close to a million.

Um, that that one we get about $1,600 profit. Um And so if you What's your your least favorite?

Uh, the least favorite is actually the one that I didn't mention.

Um that one we probably have about $100,000 in equity.

Um and that one only makes us about 5, 600

dollars a month. Okay. Um, after the >> I'm just thinking can we sell one or two and pay off the others? Now we have a completely paid for real estate portfolio, we're derisking any extra money, now we can invest into the market.

Mhm. Cuz you guys have another 30 years to invest into the market and build wealth, so I'm less concerned about that. I just think having less risk now and more cash flow and simplifying your life would would feel real good.

Yeah, I mean, my wife is her big thing is she loves having the extra cash flow.

Um, so that's why she doesn't want me to invest and then when I told her like, "Hey, you know, if we did get that 10% it would actually be more than what we would get off of the cash flow yearly." Yeah. But then her her caveat to that is, "Well, you're the cheapest person I know and you're not going to want to actually pull out any of that money and >> using the money for that's off these rentals? What do y'all do What What's the cash flow going to?

So, most of it we're saving to We have

another like rental account that we're saving just to basically get ready for another property. Yeah. Um

Okay, that's great. >> year was like our break where cuz I've been so gung ho for the last few years, this year was our break to kind of okay, I understand that you're upset that I'm doing so much, so let's slow down and let's live our life this year. So this year's been more about vacations and family time and doing stuff with our kids and doing everything. >> year on your jobs?

Uh with my overtime I make about 250, she makes about 40, so right around 300 and

then plus what we make off the rentals.

That's good. So we're doing very good. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, I can't complain in that kind of thing. Yeah, I can't complain. Yeah, I would be in George's camp, which majority of investment real estate um majority people yeah, they're leveraged. They take out loans, they put it some down, you know, they that's the cycle they live in, but at Ramsey we always talk about two things with investment real estate.

Number one is that it needs to be paid off. So when you get to that point, so I would do what George said. I would find and kind of you guys can do the math and just say, "Hey, we can sell these two, that could pay off everything else with some extra that we can invest in the market, you know, whatever that looks like." And then number two, just when it comes to investments, we do talk about diversification.

And that can be within the stock market that you're diversifying within mutual funds and all that, but even at a bigger scale, yeah, the diversification of what types of investments. And so real estate is one of those. So having some in real estate and then having some in the stock market, which I know you already do, but I do like the plan of you guys being stable with the real with the rentals and then putting anything extra and maybe take a season where you are investing in the market because I mean, depending on how quickly these houses, you know, appreciate and everything, I mean, the market itself had did very well the last couple of years and you'd actually probably make more off of being in the market than real estate, but >> With less headache.

That That's truly the only passive income is you just let your investments ride and it spits off money versus real estate, which as you know, is not super passive.

>> people living there it's a headache. Is your primary home paid off, Ryan?

No, it's not. >> It's not, okay. How much do you guys have left on that?

Uh that one's our highest. That one's close to six six twenty. What's the payment every month? Uh forty one hundred.

Man, it'd be nice to have that thing paid off. De-risk the place you sleep first.

Yeah, I mean I would definitely love to and it it definitely would help, especially because it's one of the highest payments and that that duplex pretty much covers that. Uh For now until there's a vacancy or someone doesn't pay or >> Yeah, so with the baby steps, Ryan, I would go back and I would go I would I would walk the baby steps. I'd I'd be funding 15% of you guys of your income into retirement. So back into the 401ks, the Roth IRAs.

And then I would >> grand. Yep. And then you guys have enough in the rentals again that I really do think you could sell one or two and have everything paid off in that and I would be okay with you guys keeping those and then start knocking off your primary home. And you guys may get so aggressive that you look up and you're like, "Hey, maybe we only we only have one rental and we sell everything else and pay off the primary home." I mean, the $700,000 rental if you you know, I know it was gifted to you all, but you know, depending on taxes and everything, but if it was sold and it paid off your primary home.

I don't know.

Okay. So that's >> the going to take the longest, unfortunately. Yeah, I will. >> get me wrong, I want everything to be done as fast as possible >> Well, the goal here is just to have no debt whatsoever. >> is sitting in the account that you're going to buy another rental with? How much is in there?

Uh right now it's it's low. It's only like twenty twenty-six. So it's not not

enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um and I'm out in California, so realistically we have to put about like 60 to 100k down

depending on the the place that we're looking at. >> Yeah. So, yeah, I would stop all of that. I would not buy any more houses. I would work to pay off my primary home.

>> Do you risk the portfolio and then as you buy more, do it in cash. You can do that quickly when all these are cash flowing with no debt on them with your amazing income. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Uh well, George, great show. You, too.

Uh thanks to all the callers for calling in. Thanks for all the guys in the booth and the great audience that we had today here in Franklin, Tennessee outside our studio. And remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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## 289. “Write the Check Today and Be Done With This Forever” | November 5, 2025


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| **Type** | Yes (auto-generated) |
| **Saved At** | 2026-06-05 12:00:00 |

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[music] Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So, we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network and the Fairwinds Credit Union studio, this is the Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by best-selling author Dr. I'm John Deloney and we're taking your [music] calls at8825-5225.

We're here to help you take the right next step for your life and your money.

Rob is in Kansas City. What's going on, Rob? How can we help today?

>> Yeah. Hi, George. How you doing this afternoon? >> Great. What's going on with you?

>> I'm doing all right. Uh longtime listener and I uh figured it'd be time to give you guys a call. Um, I'm in an interesting situation here and I'm kind of pushing back. So, couple of my best friends are very good with financials. I would say I trust them. And my situation

here, and I'm looking for your advice, is that I owe $8,000 on a credit card.

And that stems from a gambling issue that I had years ago that is no longer a problem. I balance transferred that money to a 0% interest card for 15 months. I have $20,000 in cash and

savings. Um, I have a truck payment. I

drive a F-150 Raptor used. I owe $28,000

on the truck. I make roughly $100,000 a

year and I'm 26 years old. So, the

question here and what my friends are advising me to do, George, is for me to take the $20,000 that I have in cash and

put all $20,000 towards my truck and my

credit card debt. And the push back that I gave to them, George, is that I don't want to completely wipe out my cash that

I have on hand in case of an emergency.

And baby step number one is to save $1,000. So, just wanting to see what your thoughts are on that. Thank you, George. >> Wonderfully put. Okay. And so, you don't agree with your friends and in turn you don't agree with us, which is fine. You know, you can hang on to the debt as long as you want and hang on to the emergency fund as long as you want. What we have found is that people generally get comfortable with their debt when they have a pile of money in savings.

And so it's actually psychologically going to take you longer to pay off the debt because you don't feel the fire that is actually happening in your backyard right now. And so I think if you put 19 of that 20 toward the debt, that would knock out your credit cards completely, giving you a lot of momentum and knock out a significant portion of your car loan.

>> Correct. Yeah. The issue that I have, George, is is you know, I I I'm become

cheap because of the issue that I had years ago with gambling. I lost pretty much everything, but I've rebuilt what I had lost. And it felt good to save that money back. And obviously, I know I have

20,000 minus 8K in credit card, so I

have 12. And then you take I have basically have a negative net worth with my car payment and my car loan. So, it's

just me being kind of impatient of like, oh my gosh, I have to start over again.

>> Yeah. It feels like you're going back to rock bottom. You know, there's a legitimate scarcity mindset there. Well, Rob, I want to throw something at you.

This is John sitting next to George.

>> I'm his sidekick. He doesn't let me talk very much, but occasionally he does.

>> I have a mute button for John at any point. >> Um, can I throw something else out there?

And I'm throwing spaghetti at a wall and you can say, "Nope, you're an idiot.

That's not real." Okay, >> go ahead.

>> Are you completely through with your gambling past?

>> Yes. >> Okay, let me rephrase that. You're done gambling. You've you've done what you need to do. You've healed from that.

>> Are you okay with you? Are you okay with that guy who gambled and created a big hole for himself?

>> Yes. Because it was a decision that I made. It was right. It was wrong. It was indifferent. I made the decision. I'm an adult. I have to live with it. And uh I'm a man of faith and I just leaned on my faith with God and uh you know honor him, praised him and you know look for him as pleasing him and all decisions that I make. >> Okay. So I want to take that I'm going to take you at your word and I want to

tell you what it looks like from the outside that you still haven't fully

completed the full circle of healing when it comes to that gambling debt because you're still hanging on to it.

Right? >> And I don't know that you're going to have that full exhale.

And what I say what I what I mean by that is you've you've hacked your way to safety. meaning you've done some amazing work to get yourself a bunch of cash and instead of leaning on gambling, instead of leaning on excitement, instead of leaning on what's the next like cool thing, now you're leaning on something else, which is cash

>> as this warm blanket to keep you keep

you safe.

>> And >> and that's what I feel daily. I look at my when I look at my bank account, I see 20 grand. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, that's great." Like I remember when I didn't have anything. >> But you still haven't finished the gambling debt yet,

>> right? >> I just need to just get to the point of being comfortable with saying, "All right, I'm going to spend $8." >> No, that's not how comfort works.

>> Comfort is through the other side of discomfort.

>> And you have this big uncomfortable path ahead of you and you're you're not walking through it because you've walked through a lot of discomfort to get here.

and you want to call that the end. It's like you're you're running a marathon and you [snorts] found mile 15, 15 to 17, which is when everyone's no matter how good a shape you are, that's when people are like, "Dude, this is stupid. I quit." And you you you're saying to yourself, "You know what? I've ran 15 miles. That's enough." And what I want to tell you is the true exhale you're looking for is on the other side of finally being done with all of the gambling stuff.

And it's it's going to be uncomfortable to write $8,000 check. Send it. Send it today >> and be forever done with both the action

of gambling and the consequences of that because the consequences are still floating out there and you've created a story that makes it kind of okay, which is it's at 0%. But it's still in your backpack. Set it down, man.

>> Can I ask you another I I actually just thought of something too that I wanted to ask that I forgot to mention to you guys. Of >> course. One thing that I think I have and my father's even mentioned it's it's kind of like an OCD thing here with I because

of the gambling issue I became

fixated on saving money right so I think

I found myself trying to save too much money and I know people have told me guys that oh well you can't save your way to wealth you know investing is the way you know to build wealth and and I have a savings instead plan with my company and At 26 years old, I've got uh

about $50,000 between my estop, my 401k,

and my IRA. You know, my boss is like, "That's great. That's amazing." You know, how many 26 year olds don't have that, you know, and and I just I want

because I want to get married, you know, I'm going to propose to my my uh future fiance, you know, around Christmas time, and I want to buy a house. And I'm like, gosh, like >> it sounds like honestly it sounds like you traded one addiction for another.

I think so too. I I do. I mean, >> and so listen, the only path you cannot psycho psychoanalyze your way through this. The only path to the confidence

you're seeking and confidence here is trusting yourself is through it, not around it.

>> Right? And I know that, you know, I'm a saver. I know I live within my means.

>> Here's the thing. Just pay it off. Pay it off. And George, what about the truck? >> And you got to attack that truck, man. I mean, you you can afford to keep it, but if you're going to hang on to the payments and carry this into your marriage, this thing's got to go. >> That's a different kind of gambling that you're always going to have this income and that debt's always going to be okay.

>> And I don't think you're ever going to get to a point where you feel comfortable enough to then throw it at the debt. [music] We're going to be talking years from now and you're still going to be carrying this. So, I'd pay it off. You're going to have 17K left.

Attack that [music] and knock it out before you get married to this gal.

That's what we would do, man.

>> [music]

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>> [music] >> Chase is in New York. What's going on, Chase? How can we help today?

>> Hey, guys. How you doing? >> Great. How are you?

>> I'm doing good. So, um, my question is I have some money saved up. Um, I've been considering putting a big lump sum towards some loans that I have. So, I'm just looking for some advice on what the best route is here to do that. Um, taking into account like how much money I could save in terms of the different interest rates on each each loan.

>> Well, do you want to do math or you want to get out of debt? Which one's more important to you?

>> Yeah. So, it's a combination of both. I mean, these loans aren't there's really no emotional aspect to them for me because

I have them set up in um some different bank accounts where it's direct deposit straight from my paycheck. So, I really don't feel it at all. And then my car loan is just the same exact thing. So, I'm not actually making those monthly payments. So, I really I don't >> You're not making the monthly payments.

I'm so confused.

>> No, it's automatic. It's all automatic in my >> Okay. So, you are making >> monthly payments, homie. Yeah, >> you've just automated it emotionally cuz everything's automated and you go whatever. It's money out of my account. It's not there anymore. Who cares? I'm not that concerned about the debt. You're you're Are you trying to make money by keeping the cash in the bank instead of paying off the debt? Is that your question?

>> No, I just don't know. I want to So, my car loan is $15,000 left on it. Okay.

>> And my student loan has $71,000 left on

it. Those are the two the two big ones.

I I have a mortgage as well that I just just started, which is 60 $620,000

left on it. And that's obviously that's my highest interest rate and my biggest loan, but really I could I feel like I

put a decent dent in >> How much money do you have that you could allocate toward the debts?

>> Um, so right now in my savings, I have

$60,000. Um, part of it, the reason this

hole came up, I got a raise at one of my jobs and I didn't update the percentage of direct deposit that was going into my account that was just covering my student loan. Um, I knew that, but it was just additional savings. Um, so it's now $17,000 in that account that's just

sitting there. So I figured, does it make sense to put that towards my student loan to eliminate a lot of the

interest and shorten the length of this?

you you have way over complicated your whole financial life. You've got like 17 accounts sitting there. You've got direct deposits coming every which way.

I would simplify it all and take all cash you have minus a,000 bucks and just knock out your debt. Could you just about knock out all of your debt if you did that today?

>> Um >> you have 60 plus the 17.

>> Yeah, 60 plus the 17. So it's about

$73,000 in my savings. So, you could knock out the car loan today, free up that payment, knock out most of the student loan, and probably be debtree by Christmas.

>> Yeah. I guess my question was like I'm kind of towards it's $80 a month in interest right now for the car loan. The

student loan is about 220 per month in interest. So, I just wasn't sure if it makes more sense going really just keep

paying the car loan and wipe out that whole student loan first and then that's all my savings. Like, is it is it smart to eliminate? >> It's not the interest savings is not going to matter with the speed that you're going to attack this if you do it our way. Now, if you're going to hang on to the debt forever and keep playing games, then I think you should start looking at the math and the interest.

But if you do it our way, you're debtree by Christmas. We're talking the difference in pennies.

>> We're talking two months, you're completely debtree. >> Or or think about it this way. You've you've made it easier for yourself by thinking about the interest that you're paying on the loan on top of the principal.

How much is the interest rate on your student loan?

>> My student loan is that's the lowest one. That's 3.74%.

>> Okay. So, if you have your money in a high yield savings account, that's a wash right now.

>> Yeah. >> Right. What are you paying on the on the interest of your car note?

>> 5.79%.

>> Okay. So, you're paying 5.7, right? 5.8.

So, let's say 6%. You're paying 6% for the privilege of holding on to that money.

>> Mhm. >> That's bad math any way you use it.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. I'm I'm also not really sure with

like I don't know how much money should I have in my savings. >> Hold Let's flip it around. Let's flip it around. >> Yeah.

>> Pay off everything by Christmas.

>> Okay. If you hate it,

if you hate not having any payments,

then go take out a $70,000 heliloc against your house and you can have one back.

That'd be awesome.

There's just like there's a there's a way to do this.

>> Yeah. >> George and I have never met a person and Dave Ramsey before us have never met somebody who paid off everything and they're like, "Man, I wish I hadn't have done that." >> Yeah. >> How much do you make? >> I mean, that's the goal for sure. >> What's your income >> for that?

>> Um, roughly per month after taxes 11,000. >> Okay. So, >> let's play this out. You're debtree by Christmas and you have a,000 bucks in savings and you're going, "Oh gosh, I got to rebuild." Okay. Well, the next paycheck, how much could you throw into that savings account now that you don't have any debt?

>> Yeah, that's a good >> 11 grand. >> Seven grand. >> Eight grand. >> Yeah. My mortgage my mortgage is 5,500 a month. We have an apartment in the house which we get 1,700 in rent from.

>> Who's we?

>> Me and my wife. Oh, >> okay. What does she make?

>> She makes 120,000 a year >> on top of your 11 that you're taking home. >> Yes. >> Okay. So you could rebuild this emergency fund in like two months.

>> You're rich, brother. Pay off your debts, man.

>> Okay.

>> You are doing the big lump sum to >> Yeah. Just pay it off today.

>> You're like a like a rat in the maze and we're going, "Dude, you don't need need to be a part of this lab experiment. You can just opt out. You're overthinking at every corner and you're too successful.

You make too much money to even be doing this math." >> Yeah. What does your wife think about all this? What's her involvement?

>> Um, she's not I'm a little bit more

entrepreneurial-minded and doing the finance stuff for us.

>> Okay. She's >> You're not good at it. >> Yeah. So, I'm >> What would she say if she took control of the money today and saw everything going on?

Would she go, "What are we doing over here? You got nine accounts. You're trying to direct. Can we just pay this off and be done?" >> Is that how she is?

Or would she say, "No, I think we should keep it very complicated and overwhelming." [laughter] >> No, she would just she would just do the monthly the monthly payment.

experts, but like talking to my friends and things like that. Like everyone just like everyone in my life is just making their monthly payments. >> I know. And their life is awful. Look around, dude. >> Look around. >> And they complain and they vent about how awful everything is, how they can't afford everything while they carry their $600 car payment that they could pay off today.

Yeah. >> So, I don't know. I mean, you can keep playing the game, but it just feels like you're choosing I just need to call out you're choosing to play the middle class game by making it complicated, holding on to the loans, thinking you're thinking a lot of action is getting you anywhere.

>> So, you're in a truck right now and it's stuck and you just keep hitting the gas and you're like, "Yeah, look how look how fast this thing is like at the RPMs.

Look how hard it's revving." But me and George are sitting in the field next to you. We were like, "You're not going anywhere." And every check like a little goes here and it goes over there and a direct deposit's here and you can't. Lloyd Christmas once said, "You can't triple stamp a double stamp." That's from Dumb and Dumber. You should go watch that movie for Christmas.

But listen, just pay it off. Pay it off. Get out of the game. Your friends are broke, dude.

Your friends are broke. So the question is, are you wanting to try to make a spread off of this or are you wanting to build wealth?

>> Mhm. So, if you want to build wealth, here's the simplest way to build wealth.

Here it is. You ready for it? Live on less than you make. Invest the difference.

That's it. You make you make 16 grand, live off five, invest the 11. You're going to be unbelievably wealthy no matter what because your savings rate will trump anything else going on in your life. And the other piece is avoid debt.

Avoiding other avoid owing other people money so that your income stays with you and instead of paying interest, you're going to be earning it in no time. and you're not going to be doing any more interest rate math. >> And you and your wife make was about a quarter million dollars together. You'll make a lot of money.

Think of it this way.

house outright. You can owe nobody anything. And you can have an emergency fund. Nobody could ever take your home.

No one will ever knock on your door.

That's the definition of wealth moving forward. >> You get a health scare, a job loss, wife wants to stay home, you yawn, and then you do it. >> Yeah. That's financial peace, man.

That's what we're after. And we hope that you start chasing that dream, too.

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[music]

Do you ever feel like you're doing everything right with your money, but you're still not getting anywhere? Well, you're not alone. Maybe you've made the changes, you had a few wins, but something still feels off. Well, it's not because you failed. It's because money isn't just math. It's emotional.

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If you're watching on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the description. All right, Amanda is out in Salt Lake City. What's going on, Amanda?

>> Hi. My husband and I have no debt. Uh

our house has been paid off for a few years. Um I have a 401k. He has a pension. And we had a friend die a

couple years ago at about our age. Um

and we got nervous. So we got some life insurance through a friend. It's a fixed index universal life insurance policy.

And I'm beginning to think it's not that good of a deal.

>> Good job. Yes. >> Glad you joined the rest of us. I'm so sorry. I've been listening to you guys and I'm like, uhoh. >> Are you still friends with this person?

>> My >> Well, it's my sister-in-law's dad. So, yes.

>> My sister-in-law's dad. That's like Space Balls. It's like my best friend's brother's roommate. [laughter] >> Good job. >> So, you you want to surrender the policy? And so, >> so we're putting like $1,000 a month into it. I have looking at this paperwork as I've been listening to you guys, I have no idea how much is in it.

I don't know. >> That's how they like it. They like to make these things so complex that the average person like you and me, Amanda, we we could not fathom how it works. And so we leave it to the really smart people in the index universal life world to scam us out of $1,000 a do you know how much wealth you could build just putting $1,000 a month into the stock market in an index fund instead of an insurance? >> Venmo me $1,000 a month and I'll send you a nice note every day.

>> And sadly, you would make more doing that. It would probably >> because the commissions and fees that he is making off of you right now would blow your mind.

>> Okay. >> Most of the money that you're putting in is going towards commissions and fees. A small percentage is going to the >> Is his house bigger than yours?

>> Oh, yes.

>> Yes. Tada. So, you have a polite conversation and you say, "Hey, I'd like to uh get out of this policy and surrender it ASAP." And he's going to try to talk you out of it. He's going to tell you how bad of an idea it is and how much money you're going to lose by doing this and you firmly just say, "Yep, I understand.

I understand. I want it. >> We're going to pay the stupid tax." >> Exactly. Because the amount of time it takes for they they'll tell you.

They'll say, "Well, you got to really be committed to this.

Which [laughter] just tells you how stupid of an idea it is. And so, I would get out of it ASAP. In fact, there's been a huge news story. Uh, one of the biggest NASCAR drivers out there, I think it's Kyle Bush. I hope I given that name right. They just lost $8.5 million doing this at scale. The exact thing you're doing.

>> Okay. >> So, if that gives you any >> So, what do I do with the money that's in there? Like, how do can I move it?

>> I mean, I don't know how much you'll have at the end of the day. There may not be much. That's the sad news.

>> Oh my. >> Like, you can check how much cash value is in there. I don't think it's going to you're going to be very disappointed with the amount of money you're going to get from this.

>> Okay. And so the longer this goes, the longer this goes.

>> Okay. >> Do you guys have term life insurance in place? >> No. >> Okay. I would do that today before you surrender this policy.

>> You need term life insurance. Not whole life, not universal life, not index universal life, none of these. Just term life, a level term life policy. It will be a fraction of the cost. Instead of a,000 bucks, it's probably going to be like $65 a month. and it's going to do the only thing that life insurance was intended to do, which is replace your income if something were to happen to you.

>> Okay? >> So, you can jump on xander.com and uh

check them out. That's who I have my policy through. >> Me, too. Or you can call them. >> I've got mine through there, too. >> And it's super affordable. And then the money that you save, that difference in the $1,000 you are paying, that $900 something dollars, you can then invest that money and you can pop that into our investment calculator and see how much wealth you could build for yourself instead of making an insurance salesman wealthy.

>> And both of us really aren't savvy in that. Like how do you invest? I don't even know how to invest money.

>> I mean, investing in your 401k is light years better. Yeah. Just we'll we'll teach you. There's a great guide that we have on our website for free. Just jump on ramiesolutions.com/guide and we have a free investing guide that will walk you through it in plain English. No complex insurance jargon. In fact, we won't mention insurance in the investing guide because they should never be mixed. Anyone telling you they should be mixed is trying to make money off of you as you've already learned the hard way.

>> Yes. >> I'm rooting for you, Amanda. So, just know that you're not alone. And I hope someone else out there holding one of these policies or who's about to get talked into one, you might have just saved them. So, please know that you've done us all >> real quick. Amanda, are you still there?

>> Yeah. >> I want to circle back to one thing you said real quick. You said you're out of debt and you've paid off your house.

>> Uh-huh. >> Okay. >> Let nobody ever again tell you, convince

you, and I'm talking to the people that you, the person you look at in the mirror and your husband looks at in the mirror. Y'all are light years ahead of

the vast majority of Americans when it comes to handling your money.

Thank you. My brother or my brother, my husband always tells us that we're broke and I'm like, I don't think we're broke, buddy. >> Listen, if y'all one of y'all loses a job, nobody's coming to take your house away, >> right? >> If both of y'all lost your job, y'all would have to mow lawn so y'all could come up on an annual basis with the taxes and insurance.

>> Mhm. >> This is what real wealth looks like. Not having a fancy policy that somebody else's manages for you cuz you're quote unquote too dumb, >> right? How old are you, Amanda?

>> We're 43. >> Okay. Do you guys have some wealth already built? Like, what's your current nest egg look like across retirement accounts? >> Uh, so I have about 450,000 in my 401k. I

haven't worked for about 5 years. Um, I >> Are you apologizing for having half a million dollars?

>> I should have excuses, but >> Okay. What about your husband? What's he have in retirement? >> He has a pension. I don't know how that works. I don't even know what >> we'll take the pension out of it. Let's just put this in your ball in your world here. You have 450 grand. You're 43 years old and you pop that thousand bucks into an investment account, you're likely going to have, are you ready for this?

$5 million at 65. If you just do that,

just a,000 bucks a month, the amount you were paying into that insurance policy, >> put it into your 401 or into a mutual fund >> thing, right? >> Yeah. Even a Roth IRA. Now, you'd run out of money pretty quick because that you'd go over the limit.

But you can invest outside of retirement. If you run out of you max out all of your retirement options, you can invest outside of retirement just into an index fund in a brokerage account and that'll still get you that number. >> Somehow you and your husband would have to figure out how to exist with your paid off house and $5 million plus his pension. However, are y'all going to make it?

>> Four weddings. That might make you broke. Yeah, I take it. I take it We have four girls. So I He said I said we're going to pay for their college. He said I'm not worried about college. I'm worried about weddings. >> That's okay. So he's right. He's right.

Y'all are poor. But you'll get there.

You'll get there. [laughter] >> They don't do full ride scholarships for weddings. Although I I feel like they should. >> You know what though? You can do the cash out option.

>> When when your daughter comes home and says, "Hey, uh, I'm engaged." is you can sit down and say, "Okay, we'll write you a check for $20,000

>> and we will marry you in our local church just right down the street." >> Right. There you go. >> I'd rather take that. >> Or you can just put it on a house and go alone. >> That's right. We will pay your down payment on for your house and we'll meet you and throw rice at you outside.

>> Young couples will be like, "Oh my gosh, housing is so unaffordable." And then spend $120,000 [laughter] on a wedding.

Like, it's worth it. My special day.

Goodness gracious. We've got it twisted.

But hey, we're rooting for you, Amanda.

It's a stupid tax. You're going to be fine. The resentment that'll sting for a little while, though.

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JP is in [music] New Jersey up next. JP, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

>> Hey folks, hope you guys are doing well.

We are call. >> What's going on with you?

>> Um, all right. So, my spouse and I have been married for three years. Um, we started FPU when we got married and now we're at Baby Step 4, which is awesome.

We put 15% down into our into our

retirement and are thinking of buying a home. We've been renting this whole time. Uh, famously in New Jersey, pretty high cost of living. So, we're trying to decide if it makes more sense to like use what we saved and buy or keep

renting and start investing what we've saved. Now, the caveat is we're planning to stay in the area for another 5 to 7 years.

>> Okay, so you're already investing 15%.

Why are you wanting to invest more?

>> Well, we have all this that we have saved and we just started like doing baby steps and wow, we could be kind of gaining more if we invest. Um, so we were like that to invest. Do we use that as a down payment? Like what makes >> more sense? >> How much money do you have? Outside of our emergency fund, we have about 140,000. >> Woo. That's a heck of a down payment.

What kind of house are you looking at? What's the budget?

>> The budget's around like 600,000 max.

>> Okay. So, what's your your target here?

Are you trying to keep it within the Ramsey parameters to keep it to 25% of your after tax income?

>> Yeah, we're trying to like follow that as well. Um, and you know, we were

thinking if we do do that and we leave in 5 to seven years, like is the equity

does that match like what we could win if we invest? You know, we're trying to figure out. >> Well, you tell me. Tell me exactly what the stock market is going to do for the next 5 to seven years and I'll tell you if it's a good plan.

>> Uh, no idea. >> It's another presidential election, too, by the way. >> Perfect. So, here's what I would I what I wouldn't do is try to time the market and decide is this money going to go towards investments or house. I think both are good. You're already investing 15%. I would rather see you guys get your foot in the door of the housing market cuz I can tell you this, houses are going to be more expensive 7 years from now. And it's a moving goalpost.

So, I would rather see you guys get into a home as soon as you're financially ready versus hanging on to the money or investing the money because you're going to be multi-millionaires at this rate.

How old are you, too?

>> We're in our mid-30s. We're 34. 33.

>> And how much money do you guys make?

>> We make about two I guess before taxes

is about 280. >> Okay. A third grader doing this math could tell you you're going to be a multi-millionaire investing 15% of hundreds of thousands of dollars with compound growth for the next 30 years.

>> That's awesome. >> So, in that case, I'm going, okay, well, let's really hunker down and get this house knocked out, which means we need to find a down payment goal so that we can get into this house. So, is that $200,000, $175,000, 250,000? What is

that number for you guys?

>> So, what we're looking about, it's about like 155.

>> And you're at 140 right now.

>> Yeah. >> So, $15,000 is what's stopping you from

buying a home?

>> Pretty much. >> And you'll make that in the next month or two?

>> Yeah, exactly. >> It sounds like you should start home shopping by Christmas.

>> All righty. We have been looking and then we you know we kind of pause and we're like we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing. So this is it. >> You were doing exactly the right thing. Now in the baby steps this would be baby step 3B or you can do it in four which is you invest anywhere from zero to 15%

while saving up a down payment. So if you guys want to keep 15% and throw anything else at the down payment savings you'll get there in no time. But I would not >> prioritize investing over buying a house when you're already doing baby step four. You guys are doing great. Gotcha.

And for whatever it's worth, I pause retirement to save up for my down payment.

>> I see. >> The pause that you do for three months is not going to make that big of a dent long term, >> right? >> So, I would Do you have a good real estate agent?

>> We do. We do. >> Okay, good. I would start shopping now because it could take a little while to start finding the right one. And in the meantime, you guys keep stacking cash.

Keep stacking cash. And when the right one comes along, you guys are going to be financially ready.

>> Amazing. All right, we'll do.

>> Way to go. >> Congratulations, dude. >> I needed a win today, JP, and you gave me that. Thank you for being an inspiration. All right, Bill is in Sacramento up next. What's going on, Bill? How can we help?

>> Well, I'm looking for some godly advice, and you guys are the key.

>> John is the holiest man. >> I'll do the godly part. George will do the advice part.

[laughter] >> Now, uh, I've got a situation. I got a couple kids. they're in private school and u my job is cut back way back on their uh overtime and stuff that I was using to keep them in private school. So my wife works, I work and uh we're just

getting barely by and all it takes is an appliance breaking down or our car that needs to be replaced and we're going to and go in debt. Right now we don't have any debt. Uh but we've got about 600,000

plus equity in our home. So we were

wrangling or tossing around the idea

that what we could do is we get just one, [clears throat] you know, just a single mortgage. We were thinking about maybe taking out a loan against it, you know, whatever percentage they charge and taking that money and it would pay for the next four years of school and pay for a car. Yep. >> And and then just pay it off when we sell the house. >> Please don't do that.

>> Okay. >> Please don't do that.

Is this private school is part of the reason you sent them to a private school? Is it a faith-based education for them? Because that's something you value.

>> Oh, yeah. It's it's a Christian organization and it's top-notch.

>> Okay, great. That's amazing. I'm going to tell you something that's hard to hear. Okay.

>> Sure. >> It's faith-based and it's top-notch. It can be world class and in the current

situation where you find yourself, you can't afford it.

>> And this is dad to dad, okay? I'm just telling you like dad to dad. That's a hard thing for me to say to another dad who's trying to do the best he can to raise great kids.

>> But I will tell you in my house and in George's house and our neighbor's house, the spiritual life of our kids is chiefly our responsibility.

>> Absolutely. And if you can, if you have found yourself in a season where you can afford to also put them in a different environment where you know their teachers are all believing the same faith that you value and all that, that's amazing.

But the other side of this is the biblical principle that the borrower is slave to the lender.

And if you take out a heliloc against your house, even though you have built-in equity, you are creating tension inside your house that your kids will absorb from the inside out.

>> Okay? I would much rather if like just again dad to dad. I would much rather you guys have a hard conversation with your kids, which by the way would be one of the greatest lessons you could ever teach them, which is dad had his hours cut and our finances have changed. And

if they saw their dad weep, if they saw their dad be sad, that would be a blessing to them because they would see dad have real emotions and then go do the next right thing,

which is for this season or at the end of this year or at the end of this semester. This is as far as we can go.

And if my hours peck back up, this is priority number one. I know it's going to impact your friendships. It's going to impact your school stuff. You It's going to be hard, but my job is to keep all of us safe.

Those are hard hard conversations, man.

But I would I would not be a good dad, a fellow dad if I told you, yeah, the right thing to do is to borrow against your home for this for your for this

season right now.

>> Okay? >> And if things are tight now, that heliloc is just going to make it even tighter. You're adding an extra payment in your life and you're putting your house on the block because that puts your home at risk as well. And so to John's point, I think this is going to add more stress than it's going to add peace of mind that you're you're doing the right thing for your kids. I think you've probably raised some great kids. Am I Am I right?

Oh, absolutely. >> Yeah. Do you think a temporary change in school would affect their character and their values and the principles you've instilled in them? Well, >> if it did, I'd, you know, kick them out behind the woodshed.

>> There [laughter] we go. There we go. We have a solution. But I would not do this, Bill.

I don't I don't think using your home as a piggy bank is going to be a blessing in your life. And we just talked to too many people that are your age going, I wish I never did this. I wish I didn't take out the HELOC. I'm unable to retire now and unable to make these payments.

And that's just going to add stress into your home. >> Or the moment you take out that helock, you're going to get called in and they're going to say, "Hey, you know, we've been cutting hours, man, and unfortunately we're going to have to lay off some positions." And then you're in a big big time mess that you're not in right now.

I always want homes to [music] be places of warmth and safety and peace and adding adding debt to your house plus putting your house on the block, man.

That's a way to add some major stress.

Take that off the table and find any other way. And it's not going to be fun, but it's going to be for a season.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm [music] George Camel joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at88255225.

Tyler is in Fort Worth, Texas. Salt of the earth folks over there. What's going on, Tyler?

>> Oh, not a lot, guys. How are you?

>> Good. John is upset with me. I don't like my comment about Fort Worth is the 817. It's a great town. And

>> George doesn't know how to talk to Texas. >> I said salt of the earth. That's a compliment. >> I'll teach John what that means after.

What's going on today?

>> So, my wife and I got married a little over a year ago. Um, so that brought all

of our debt together, obviously. Uh, we're about $150,000 in debt. um that

includes car payments and a camper payment and student loans. And I also

filed chapter 13 bankruptcy six years ago and I'm at the light of the end of the tunnel where it is paid off at uh in

July of next year. >> Awesome. Good for you, man.

>> Yeah. Um so >> what got you back into the mess? is h

well, you know, chapter 13 keeps you in uh keeps you eating beans and rice just like you guys say it should. Um but what put me back into it? My wife had $40,000 worth of student loan debt before we got together. Um vehicle payment, I had to

have a vehicle to get back and forth to work. I currently don't really need that now. Just need to um just have I have a

work vehicle that I can drive back and forth to work. She needs a vehicle to drive back and forth to work. And her payment or her her Jeep, we have about 10,000 in debt left on it. So, and I want to sell my pickup, but I just found out today that the transmission went out and that's a $6,000 repair.

>> I just don't know where to start.

>> What do you guys make?

>> Uh about 180,000 a year.

>> There's some good news. And what can you sell your truck for if you got the transmission fixed?

If I somewhere between 33 and 39,000.

>> Okay. And how much money do you have in savings if anything?

>> Uh I've got about 500 bucks in savings right now. >> Okay. And what could you sell the camper for?

>> Uh the camper is probably about 30,000 and we owe about 45 on it.

>> So you're underwater on that. Are you underwater on the truck as well?

>> Um I owe 31 on it. So, if I put a transmission back in it, then I technically, yes, I would be underwater on it, but then I could sell it and walk away from the payment. >> Good. Well, I'm just thinking that if you get rid of that camper in the truck, man, you can breathe a little bit.

>> Yeah. So, the whole reason we got a camper was cuz we moved from Montana to Texas and living in a camper with a couple dogs was the cheaper option than renting down here. I mean, we pay around $1,600 a month with, you know, with my

lot rent, the camper payment, and our electric. >> So, you're Are you currently living in the camper? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. What would rent be?

>> Uh, rent somewhere from 2 to 25,00.

>> Uh, every place that I've looked at that accepts dogs is usually pretty high.

It's hard to find a place that accepts dogs without it being around that two grand mark. >> Okay. Well, I'm just worried because this camper is going to continue to just tank in value and you're going to you be even more underwater on it to where you're going to go, well, I guess we have to live in this camper forever.

This is our life now. And so for a couple making 180K, you can afford $2,000 in rent.

>> Yeah. So, I I just don't want you doing bad math going, "Well, it's worth it to stay in this camper and stay in debt." When you could knock out $45,000 plus

the 31 of the truck. That's half your debt right there.

>> Yeah. >> And now making 180k. How quickly can you clean up 75? 12 months.

>> So, that's the napkin math I'm seeing on paper. I don't know if you see that future, that path out of this, but there's a very clear path out of this if you guys want out. And >> and bro, you asked us. We don't know where to start. George gave you a math like a path and it's literally a year from now. >> That's it. >> Okay. >> But I want to get to if if if you were just sitting with me and we were having nachos and you said I don't know where to start.

>> I don't think you have taken full ownership yet.

>> Because I've heard you say >> go ahead. >> Oh, sorry. No, no, no. I was going to say I just went through the baby steps reading the book. So, >> sure. No, I got you. I got you. Here's what I want you to begin to own from this point forward. Not I had to, I

needed to. There's the only I want you to say, I chose to go buy a $50,000

truck that I couldn't afford even in the middle of a bankruptcy.

I want you to say, "We made 180 grand

and instead of paying $2,000 a month for a one-bedroom apartment, because we are choosing, I'm owning I'm choosing to have two dogs in this little bitty space, I chose to buy a camper that I couldn't afford." Ownership here is where you got to start because so far the story you've told us is all these things have happened to you and I just want you to exhale and say, "I've made some choices." And that means because here's what that's freeing. I made those choices and now I can choose to make other ones because right now you're just waiting for life to happen to you the other direction.

And so there's some kind of reckoning about, man, I did something really dumb.

I went and bought a big nice camper that I can't afford so that we could keep two dogs. And bro, I love my dogs. Love

them. And when my wife and I were getting out of debt and we had to move into a apartment on a college campus with a toddler, I had to pay somebody to keep my two dogs for a year

because long-term more important those dogs was my wife and my son and my

freedom. You get what I'm saying?

>> Yes, sir. >> But it just comes with you owning all of this. Not this happened and then I had to and this happened and then I had to. This happened and then I had to. I'm gonna own this because then you can own what happens next and George just gave you a literally a one-year plan. Can just fast forward to yourself this time not Christmas of 2026.

You're done with bankruptcy. You owe nobody anything. You and your wife and

you finally have that clean slate you've been dreaming about for seven years.

>> Yep. That's it. >> And it's going to be a hellacious year.

year. And if y'all move two dogs into onebedroom apartment, it's going to be full of dog hair and smells and all that stuff. Great. It's a year. It's one year.

You get what I'm saying? Is your wife on board with this plan?

>> Yeah. So, we've talked about a few few different things. It's, you know, I told her I wanted to figure out what we needed to do to get our life back on track to where we had money in the bank and we survived. And I mean, we live comfortable as we are, but I would love to live better than comfortable.

>> I think we needed some discomfort before we get to comfort. Right now, $11,000 is

probably going to slip through your fingers in the next 30 days. Am I wrong?

>> No, you're not. >> And it's going to go right back out to lenders and minimum payments and >> restaurants, >> restaurants, and comfort,

>> right? That's what's been happening because that's why we only have 500 bucks when we make 180 grand a year. So, what I what I want you guys to do is make a budget tonight where you list out your income. $11,000 expenses. Here's my

four walls. Here's food, utility, shelter, transportation. Here's the minimum debt payments. Anything that isn't on that list, we don't spend money on one year. Could you guys commit to that?

>> I believe we can. >> And the one thing you need more than anything after 6 years of bankruptcy and

starting a new life with somebody is you need some confidence. You need to begin to trust yourself again. And the you can't think your way to trust. You have to act your way to trust. Doing the next right heart thing for one calendar year will change everything from your DNA on

out. Go check out Every Dollar Tyler.

We'll get you started. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll gift it to you if you guys commit to doing this stuff. And call us back if we can help along the way.

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Not available in all states. And we've got something special today. Today's question comes from Bailey in Florida and it's an audio question. So, let's take a listen. John. >> Hi, my name is Bailey and I'm from Florida. I'm on baby said, too, and I'm trying to decide what to do with my car.

I have a 2021 Honda Civic that I owe about 18790 on, but it's only worth around 175. My brother works for Ford and he wants me to get a brand new Ford Maverick with a lifetime warranty. He's got these employee discounts. He's able to get all these fees taken off. Uh, he's kind of been my financial adviser most of my life and he thinks it's great decisions. He makes great money. It's not like I'm taking financial advice from broke people as Dave would say.

Should I sell the Civic and get a cheaper used car while I pay off the rest of my debt or would getting a new car make sense?

>> Oh boy, there's so much to unpack here.

First of all, your brother is your

financial adviser, and you said he makes great money, so it's good to take financial advice from him as he tries to talk you into a car that you can't afford that he's going to make commission off of. This whole thing just feels odd to me. >> Not as odd as a Ford Maverick with quote unquote a lifetime warranty.

>> Yikes. And guess who's making all the money off that warranty? His brother.

[laughter] >> No wonder he's rich. Yeah, exactly. H you're in baby step two. You've got debt.

You're 1,300 bucks underwater on this car. I'm guessing you you will make that within your next paycheck. And so just save up a little bit more than that to get a a new to you car. Get something used.

Please do not go out and buy a new car. I don't care if you're getting an employee discount. buying a brand new car. It's going to depreciate in value like a rock and you're going to be carrying this payment which is just replacing the payment you have now which is just broke people mentality.

>> Yeah. You basically have a car with a lifetime warranty. It's called a Honda Civic. >> Yeah.

>> Those cars last for eternity. They're apocalypse cars.

>> So if you make, you know, 50, 60, 70, 80 grand and you want to keep the car, then just pay it off in the next year or two and be done with it. I don't I don't know if you have more debt than that, but that's where I would start. And if you want to sell it and get a cheaper used car because you said while I pay off the rest of my debt, that tells me there's a bigger problem here.

then buy a 10 grand car. That'll get you out of debt much faster. So, >> and and and let's just put this out here. Um George, I know in my life, I'm pretty sure I know yours, but let's just put this out there. Um, you're pretty good with money, pathologically. So, I call you and I have money questions, right? So, I trust you. Have you bought a new car

in my life? >> Since you started cleaning up your money mess. >> No, I haven't bought a new car ever personally. >> Yeah. >> I just got a new to me car and it was almost new and I still couldn't I couldn't fathom paying the MSRP retail price. So instead, I found one that was slightly used and I got a 22% discount.

>> I did the exact same thing. My discount wasn't near that high because I bought a reputable brand instead of the one you brought. >> But like even I couldn't bring myself to buy a brand new car. It was new that year, but someone had driven it and they had brought it back for what >> and we are both in a place where we you could and it would not be against the Ramsey parameters cuz here's what we say.

If you have a net worth of a million or more, you can stomach the depreciation. you can buy the new car in cash >> or as Dave says, can you just take that money and set it on fire in your living room and your your family will still be able to continue on, right? And so it's this even if you get like a deal and a thing and all the fees taken off, the second you drive that Ford Maverick off the lot, it's worth less. It's worth less.

>> It's going to lose 10%. >> You could back it up and resell it back to them for the even the same price you just got it minus all the fees and everything.

heard of anybody buying a new caring themselves out of debt. And that really isn't a real sentence I just made up, but you can't buy yourself a new car to

get yourself out of debt. You just either have to suck it up and pay off this Honda Civic, this 21, which will last you for all of your life, or like

George said, sell it and get a 20 a 2005

Honda Civic that's still running for 3,000 bucks and it looks ridiculous and

drive that until you pay everything off.

>> I drove one of the I had an09 Honda Civic I drove up until a few years ago.

>> It's still driving somewhere.

>> Well, here's the truth. Kelly Daniel, your producer, her son bought it and then he crashed it within two weeks. I bet you they um >> it's on a pound lot somewhere.

>> Nope. I bet you they somebody with a hammer and a chisel like fixed the the the thing and it's still driving somewhere. >> They are truly invincible vehicles. It was great.

>> Yeah. >> So yeah, I think you're you're stuck in a broke people uh maze here. And I would choose a better role model than your brother who's about to get you into a lifetime warranty and yet absolve you of all of the he said all the fees are taken off except that lifetime warranty that's thousands of dollars extra that you paid. That's mostly commission to him.

So, hey, I I think it's worth calling out here.

today, George. Somebody sent me something. I'm trying to I I want to buy a place where I can go hunting that's just mine, right? And I can invite a couple of buddies. Somebody sent me something today that's really amazing and it's actually at a really amazing price and I don't have that money. And

if you're trying to get out of debt, it's it's amplified.

100% of the people who get out of debt have a quote unquote great opportunity from their uncle. Their dad's trying to sell a thing or I'm just going to sell you this guitar or this what it's always going to come and you have to stick to it. It's just like getting on a really firm nutrition plan for a season and then somebody shows up at your house with three dozen cookies they just made for your family because you have a choice to make when that happens. There's always going to be a new a deal, >> a shinier, newer, better thing in front of you.

>> It can be a great deal. It's just not a good deal for you, especially during the season. So, let this be an exercise in saying no. All right.

Peggy is in Colorado Springs up next.

>> Hi. >> Hey. How can we help?

>> Well, um I wanted to ask get some

advice. My husband and I are in our middle 70s and um

young >> we feel like it. Um, we have had an

opportunity come up to take a cruise to

uh in Europe from uh from Rome to Istanbul.

And um it's going to cost I figure I've

been creating a budget for it and it looks like it's going to cost I can barely say it uh about $35,000

for the whole thing. And I'm just trying to find out if we should even be thinking about spending that kind of money. What's your net worth?

>> Uh about oh 1 1.5 1.6 million somewhere

in there. >> And how are you guys covering all of your expenses right now?

Um, we have a paid for house that's

worth about $800,000

and we have our monthly regular income

is uh about 9,000 and then we each have

little part-time jobs, so to speak. And

um so that's a little bit of extra income that not that's not part of that 9,000. >> Great. [clears throat] So maybe call it like 10,000 a month. So, you're making, you know, six figures a year, no payments, no mortgage. How much money do you have saved for the trip?

>> Well, I had I've been looking at cruises

like this for a couple of years now, and in fact, this cruise, it came up um we

got a a note from a letter from his alumni association from his college, and it was this particular cruise, and it's one I had been looking at, and it was with the cruise line. I had decided we that we would cruise with whenever we did it. >> Serendipitous. >> Do you have 35,000?

[sighs] >> Well, we have it. We'd have to take it out of uh some of it. I have about 10,000 toward what I was saving for the cruise.

So, the rest of it would >> come out of your retirement account. >> A little bit, but it it would come out of one of our retirement accounts.

>> I mean, you're probably not going to be depleting those retirement accounts in the next few years, right? You got 9,000 coming in outside of that?

>> Yeah, we we what I've been doing since we both have earned income with the RMDs we have to take from the U IRA. [snorts] We've been funding our Roth IRA.

>> Peggy, guess what? You're going to Europe. >> I feel like a game show host right now.

>> You're going to Europe. Go and have the time of your life. Take tons of pictures and rub it in your kids' faces. >> And don't do the math on what it's costing you per hour to enjoy the trip.

Just enjoy the trip. Have fun.

Dave, we got a lot of calls on this show where life happens. One day, someone's healthy, they're working, providing for their family, and then a curveball hits.

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But there's another piece that people often overlook, and that's long-term disability insurance. >> Yeah, it's important to understand the difference between them. Life insurance steps in when you die. Disability insurance steps in while you're alive, but can't work.

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Michael is in South Carolina up next.

Michael, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

Appreciate what you guys do. So, I'm in a sales position that has like a base plus a bonus that you get uh throughout the year and then you get a bigger bonus at the end of the year. End of the year is here. And I'm expected to get a bonus or I will get a bonus that I will most likely never get again. And so, I want to use this money as best my wife and I

possibly could. And so, >> how big is this bonus? >> About $200,000. It's about $200,000

before taxes. >> Good. Is there any openings?

>> You guys hiring? >> Well, yes, there are. But hey, >> what do you say? Wait, I I'm interested.

Why do you think you'll never have this good of a year again?

>> So, the way our our structure is that

you get your base salary and then based upon the quota, your percentage of your quota, you get a a bonus based on what

percentage of your quota you get to. And that bonus is a percentage of your base salary. It's confusing. It's actually pretty common in the sales world these days.

But so I basically had a pretty low quota last year and blew it out of the water. And so I know my quota this year is just going to get higher and higher and higher. And hey, I expect to blow it out of the water. >> Why don't you blow that one out of the water, dude?

Yeah, man.

>> My base salary right now is about $80,000.

>> Okay. So 80 plus the 200 >> that I got I got commissions. I got

commissions throughout the year that totaled about $60,000 or so.

>> Nice. >> Oh man, had the year, man. 340.

>> Yeah, it was it was a good year. It was a good year. >> Great. Are you married?

>> I am. I'm married. We have two kids. Um, and the dilemma that we're in, so we we have a house that we bought like 5 years ago, and we just recently moved into a new house, new to us, and we rent the other house out. It's got about $100,000 left on it at a 3% interest rate. The

new house we're in has like $290,000 on it at a 7.25%.

So, you're probably getting at where I'm going. >> Sure. How much do you guys have in savings?

>> So, in our savings, so we have in our savings and our if I logged into my apps about $20,000. We have about uh 10 to

15,000 in a brokerage account. That's totally separate. And then I have some retirement accounts and stuff as well.

>> And any other debt outside of these two mortgages?

>> So I I would normally say no except I did recently buy a mower and it's 0% down for a year. So I've just been paying what it will cost to pay it off any I know, >> bro. You make 340 grand this year,

>> but I'm going to finance, but I'm putting like 200 bucks a bucks on it.

[laughter] >> Okay. Well, we'll pay that off with your bonus. How about we start with that? stretch and pay that off. >> All right. >> Okay. Deal. >> What will be your What will be the actual net from all of this? Like how much will you net by Christmas to be able to throw at these mortgages?

>> I'm hoping to have I'm I'm I'm going to say a h 100,000, but I mean it could be possibly 120 to $130,000 that I could do anything I want

with. >> Okay. So, if I was in your shoes, normally we'd say let's get knock out the primary mortgage first. But if you can knock out this rental mortgage with one fell swoop >> and free up that payment to now apply to the other mortgage, I would go that route and attack the the primary aggressively at that point.

>> Okay, that's kind of where I was leaning as well. >> Yes. And and and good. Can I just say, dude, out of the gate, you know what you're thinking like? You're thinking like a farmer.

Like the old school farmers that have >> a homestead. Yeah, >> they have. Do you have a homestead?

>> We do. We have some garden and some animals that bring in some stuff. Yeah.

>> Okay. So, like this like this idea has been lost on us as a culture, but farmers for all of human history would have a year that was just record yield and it was amazing. And >> they knew that doesn't happen every year. And every 5 to 7 to 10 years there's a bust year, >> right? And so the fact that you're as young as you are, as successful as you are, knowing I crushed it this year, I made 340K this year. I'm probably

not going to make that next year. Most people in your situation go buy a house based on I make 340 a year and they buy two stupid cars. Good on you, man. This

is awesome. >> And I would I would enjoy some of it, too. So, I think you and your wife sit down and go, "Hey, we're going to knock out the mortgage. Anything above and beyond that, well, and the mower.

Anything above and beyond that, we're going to enjoy some of it. We're going to give some of it. Maybe stack some in the emergency fund if you want to beef that up a little bit. And man, that's going to free up some cash flow because now you're that property is cash flowing pretty nicely with no mortgage on it.

What will you be netting from that property once it's paid off?

>> It'll be about $700 after rent is what we'll get for it.

>> 700 bucks profit. >> So that's right.

>> Are you even profiting? It sounds like you're losing money on this thing right now then.

>> Well, so the mortgage on the house is about 700 and we charge about 1,400 for it. So we'll bring in about 700. No, but

my mind once I pay off the mortgage. >> But yeah, you pay off the mortgage, you'll be making 1,400 a month, right?

>> That's right. Yeah. In my head, it's like I put some of it back into it. But yeah, I guess I would be netting for >> Oh, I forgot. You're really wise. My bad. Yes. Like, man, if you put a if you

keep a small fund for taxes and insurance in that in that house, and if you start building a small emergency fund for when, not if, the air conditioner fails and the roof needs to be replaced, bro, you are so far ahead.

So far ahead, man. That's incredible, dude. >> And I would I would set sit with your wife and set maybe a four or five year goal to knock out your primary mortgage because how old are you, too?

>> 30. >> 30. So, think about this. 35 years old, you have not a payment in the world.

>> Two paid for houses. >> Two paid for houses. One's cash flowing and you're still making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. It's a pretty sweet life.

>> Yeah, that would be amazing. >> Or how about this? What if you did a hold my beer and you said, "I want to scratch and claw, honey, for one more year. I want to be the most aggressive salesperson on my team and they're going to give me a bananas quota and I'm going to crush it, too.

>> Oh, yeah. >> You know what I mean? And then, but then have a destination after that. We pack up and we all go to Disneyland or Disney World or wherever and or we go to Jamaica, whatever you want to do. And then you look at her in the eye and say, "Then I'm going to exhale. I'm not going

to be the most crazed out aggressive because I want to be present for you and these kids, >> but we have a chance in the next 24 months to set us up forever.

>> All right. Well, it sounds like I'm I'm on the right page." My mind was like, well, hey, should I focus on refinancing this house to bring this payment down or do I just pay off the other house completely? you can figure out what the break even is on, you know, when you're actually going to break even on that refinance because it'll cost you a little bit. >> 725 and bringing it down to what? What is it right now? Five and a half. >> Are you on a 30-year?

>> I'm on a 30-year right now. Yep.

>> You could probably refinance into a 15 and have, you know, right in the fives right now. >> That'd be worth it. >> Your payment's going to go up because it's a 15, but you'll knock that thing out within a few years and be done with it >> because way more is going to principal. I dare you to go look at that amortization schedule. You're gonna throw up seeing how much is going to interest versus principal on that balance.

>> Oh, I hate it. Every time I every month when I get the statement, I'm like, >> and I don't know if you're like me. I And my wife always makes fun of me about this. I have a weird thing about the first number, right? So, when we were paying off debt, I was like, I just need to get it with a two in front. I just need to get it with a one in front. Right? Even if it was $199,99,

like I just needed to get that number. If I'm you, I'm looking at that seven in front. If I could refinance that and even I was going to recoup in 12 to 18 months >> and I could get a five in front, I would just feel better. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'd get in touch with >> like a best case scenario. Go ahead.

>> No, I was just saying to say if you want to just run the numbers, our friends at Church Hill Mortgage can just help show you the numbers and go, "Hey, this makes sense or this doesn't make sense based on your situation and the market."

>> Okay. >> And I'll tell you my when I called when I called Church Hill when I Yeah. When I called Church Hill and asked about refinancing a couple years ago, the first thing um my Church Hill person

told me is I'm going to dig into this and run the numbers. I will not take your business if this isn't good deal for you. And that's how I knew, oh, you're you're my right person. >> Real deal.

>> Yeah.

Well, that's great. That's awesome. Hey, congratulations on giving me a little bit of a >> just congrats on a great >> Can I ask what you sell?

I sell security systems, fire alarms, that kind of stuff. >> You're dang good at it, dude. They don't give out money to people who uh who aren't making them a lot of money, >> especially sales sales people.

>> Yeah, you've earned it and more. So, congratulations. And uh you can jump on to churchillmortgage.com and get in touch with their team over there and help you run these numbers and it might save you some. I think at the rate you're going, you're just going to knock this out. And so, they might go, "Yeah, if you're going to knock it out in two years, may not be worth it, but it's going to be seven. Sure. Let's refine it. >> And have an amazing Christmas for your wife. Do something cool for her.

>> Get a crazy gift that blows her mind.

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[music] The allnew Every Dollar is here.

And now it's way more than just our world-class budgeting app. There's a ton of advanced features to help you make faster progress with your money. And the average person finds thousands of dollars in margin in just the first 15 minutes. So start every dollar for free today. You can get it in the App Store or Google Play. Mark is in Ohio up next.

Mark, welcome to the show.

>> Hey guys, thanks for taking my call.

It's an honor. >> Absolutely. How can John and I help?

>> Oh, well, I'm calling about my father.

He's um he's been a Christian for

probably nearly 50 years. He spends his

life, you know, every day serving people. That's his calling. And um he he

owned a construction business for something like 35 years. And during that time, he's uh he's acquired a lot of rental properties um all debtfree. And

um the issue is what I'm calling you today to talk about is that he doesn't have a will or an estate plan. And he

says that he doesn't need one because he believes that the Lord will return before >> his death, you know, during his lifetime. >> Okay.

>> So, so how do I encourage him to do that without making it feel like, you know,

he's questioning his own faith? And who am I to to do that? You know >> what date does he have in mind? Can he tell me when the Lord would be arriving approximately? >> No, he No, he doesn't have any date or anything like that. He >> just before he croakkes. He's like it's

definitely going to happen before I pass. >> Yeah, that's what he believes. >> But he and he knows that he has good authority.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> All right. >> Here's what I would say, dude. This is this is a very tough situation. I would sit down with him and say, "Dad, um,

like watching you do life has been one

of the greatest learning lessons and like coolest things any son could ever have. I've watched you serve people.

I've watched you pro he probably gives rent below market value, right? He probably takes care of people. Is that true?" >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. So, like if you lead off this conversation by saying like watching how you serve your local community and you go make money and you figured out how to do both of those well and you've dedicated your life to God, like all that's amazing. It's been a high privilege being your son, can I ask one thing of you? In the event

in the event that something does happen to you um before the Lord returns,

this would be a huge mess for me,

>> right? >> Would you do me the honor? And because some people think wills are for them.

Would you do me the honor of putting this stuff down in writing on the off chance? Because you're not going to convince him, right?

like you're not going to make a rational argument. He's going to be like, "You know what? You're right." That he's not going to do that.

>> And so really what you're what you're appealing to in this moment is your

sense of discomfort.

>> Yeah. >> That's that to me is the only shot you got. Do you have siblings?

>> Yeah, there's 10 10 of us.

>> That sounds fun. So he How does he feel

about the government?

Uh he he's not he's not a fan.

>> Well, he is a fan because he's letting the government decide what happens with his estate. >> That's the way to say it.

>> Yeah, you're you're right. You know, and we've I've talked to >> He loves the government.

>> He trusts the government to handle all of his estate planning right now. Yeah. [clears throat] >> He's hired him out.

>> Yeah, you're right. >> And they're happy to to do whatever they want with his property. >> They're happy to take his probate fees on top of his estate taxes uh as all this unfolds. So, here's what I would say. Even if Jesus returns tomorrow, scripture still calls us to be wise stewards today cuz we don't know what tomorrow is going to bring.

>> And so, you can appeal with that. You can appeal with the government angle. You can appeal with the Mark wants it for security and peace of mind angle.

Cuz here's what we do know. The calls that we take on the show where 10 siblings are involved dividing up a very complicated estate never ends well. It ends with relational resentment. And even if all 10 of y'all are on the same page, which there's 0% chance of that, right? >> Yeah. Right. Right. >> It's those 10 and y'all have all married other people.

>> You're right. >> And they all have cousins and they all think that by marrying into a construction >> empire >> empire that they're going to suddenly get rich. >> And Uncle Randy wants a piece cuz he helped him with that deal one time. >> That's right. He told me he promised me.

>> He promised me.

>> And bro, getting 10 signatures to simply sell one >> $110,000 rental property is a nightmare.

>> It'll be It'll be a reality show on HGTV, I'll tell you that much.

>> Right. Yeah. That's my biggest fear, you know, is causing issues amongst the family. >> Have you told him that? Cuz that's another big one. Dad, I want to I want that. I want this family. I want my brothers and sisters, I want us to all stay united after you pass.

In the event you pass before Jesus returns, I want us to all stay united.

And this will be tough.

Like, you're almost guaranteeing that y'all will all dissolve your relationship in some shape, form, or fashion.

>> Right.

I hate that you're in this situation, man, because your dad seems like a pretty amazing guy. He's just got this thing in his mind that's pretty tough.

And it might be a protective measure for him because he doesn't want to he has

been a pretty strong guy and a guy that's always been in control of who he's giving and his his own company and all that. And the thought of being in a hospital bed, the thought of passing away is so heavy

that it's easier to create a story that no no I I know it's going to happen.

>> Which the if scriptur is pretty clear, you don't have any idea when it's going to come. Nobody does.

>> Right. Right. >> Right.

>> Yeah. Well, hopefully if he hears this, maybe this will >> help persuade him. >> I hope so, man. Or send him Yeah. Send him the call. send him the call because I mean George and I are both sitting here. What an amazing guy. What an amazing legacy he's left. And

>> what what a way to pit brother against brother and sister against sister or

brother's wife's cousin suing everybody

because they tripped and fell on one of the houses in their you get what I'm saying? It just go what a recipe for dissension among your family tree that that you spent so >> much time >> watering and growing, >> right? >> Yeah. There's so much out of his control and yet there's so much in his control and this is one of the things he can control during his time left here on earth and I hope it's a long one.

>> All right, let's get to Sue in North Carolina. Sue, get right to the question. We're up against the clock. How can we help today? Uh, >> yes, sir. I was calling actually to find out when you sell your house. That's what my husband and I are getting ready to put our house up on the market on February 1st of 2026.

>> Okay. >> And the big thing is that we're having a problem with when we we're moving up near St. Louis from Charlotte, North Carolina. And um my husband and I are

not agreeing on where we should live,

you know, if we should go ahead and build a house while we're living in our house or should we and selling our house or should we, you know, rent there and then build. So I don't want to rent, but

he does. >> What's his argument for rent? >> Kind of, you know, each other's throats about it. [laughter] Well, does it is he stressed out with the idea of trying to sell this house and we don't have the money from the equity and we're trying to build this new one and we need a loan for that.

>> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt. >> I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

>> Yeah, we have 225,000 in um equity.

>> Okay. >> So, we're doing well and we bring in, you know, about 8,000 a month. You know, we're retired. we over 60 and uh we

don't have too much debt. Um so we're

just this is we've been in this house for 25 years and it's a turnkey so

everything's ready I'll accept just a few repairs like about $5,000 worth.

>> Sue I can I can tell you Sue every time me and my wife move have moved especially we move towns we always rent for six months at least. Okay. Can you compromise a short-term lease just to kind of get the lay of the land, get your bearings because moving is already so stressful. >> Where's the grocery stores? Where is the nearest place for the grandkids? Like all those little like where's the restaurants? All of that stuff, man.

Finding a new place in a new community.

That's a that's that's a tough lifestyle shift. >> And then the timing of it gets tight to try to time it all to sell yours, close on yours, close on the new one, all in the right time. So, if you can make all that happen and not be stressed financially or otherwise, go for it. But I think there's a lot of wisdom in just renting for just six months. It's not a long time. You can put your stuff in storage and then say, "Okay, I'll rent, but you got to hire like turnkey movers

that will get it out of the storage [music] space and put it exactly where I want it." And he has to leave town while the move happened. >> Oh, yeah.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show in the Fair Winds Credit Union studio. I'm George Camel joined by my good friend Dr. John Deloney and we're taking your calls at88255225.

Give us a call. We'll try to help you take the right next step for your life and your money. Tyler is in Texas up next. What's going on, Tyler?

>> Hello. Nice to nice to be talking with you today. You as well. I am >> I'm a married man. I just uh I just

became a dad last year. My about a year

and a half. >> Fantastic. and we we just got rid of uh

over $100,000 in student loans.

>> Yeah, dude. Congrats, brother.

>> Thank you very much. And now we're in a interesting predicament. Um so we want

to buy a house. We are completely debtree at the moment. Um

but I am currently

with a second job. I'm the maintenance man at our property complex part-time

and we have free rent.

>> Oh, heck yeah. >> And we So, we'd love to uh we'd love to

get into a bigger house and we kind of need it, but gosh, how can I walk away from that?

>> One word with a three words. Sorry, I

was going to say [laughter] one word.

>> One three-word. >> One three-word sentence. All right, you ready? >> Okay. with a plan,

>> right? >> My wife and I did the exact thing. I moved into a residence hall. One of the things at the university was over I was overousing. So, we got to live in that apartment for free and there was me and

my wife and a toddler in a very small place and it worked for a season.

And so, we had a plan. We had an end date. But that end date was contingent on two things. One, my wife and I shook hands on it. And two, there was a financial goal we were going to try to get to.

>> Exactly. >> I think the challenge for you guys is this thing kind of feels indefinite.

>> Right. It's indefinite. And we feel like

the end date of this is going to be dependent on uh getting a certain amount of down payment. >> Great. and being able to achieve a certain monthly payment that we think would be very manageable and would give

some wiggle room to to give us some incidental spending without dipping into our emergency fund cuz we don't want to be housed with too too much of a payment. >> Absolutely. >> But where we're we want a three ideally

a fourbedroom house and something like that where we are living is looking at about a4 million.

>> Okay, great. And and that's

that's not undoable, but >> most of America is like, "That's it?

That's amazing. I want to move to your town, dude. Don't tell anyone what town you live in because everyone will move there." >> Right. Right. Well, we want to keep our payments under two grand a month for sure with with everything in >> So, we have our magic numbers. The house is going to cost 250. We want to keep the payments around two grand. So, how much down do you need? I can do the math for you right now. On a 15-year, you're looking at maybe 60 grand down. Does

that sound right?

>> Yeah, sounds about right to me. >> How much do you have currently saved outside of your emergency fund?

>> We've got $14,000 directly dedicated uh

for down payment at the moment. Uh and we we can probably do $3,500 uh momentum

towards that a month.

>> So, one year from now, you have your number. Tada.

>> Tada. 42 plus the 14 with high yield savings account you'll get right around 60.

>> So a year >> and you sit down with your wife and you say we have one year of and if y'all

want to cut spending she wants to make some money on the side whatever it just accelerates this >> right >> but and it we get $60,000 we have 14 so

we have 46,000 bucks left to go it's going to take us about a year and then we're out of here.

>> Well cool deal. So within the Dave Ramsey framework, it is within the realm of blessing to walk away from free living in favor of something like this.

Then >> Dave pays an insane amount of money to

keep up his various houses. Yes, >> free rent would never stop Dave from buying real estate. I'll tell you that much. He would just use it to accelerate buying more real estate.

Cuz here's the other thing to think about. That real estate is going to cost you more 5 years from now. And so at some point the free rent party's going to end. At some point you're not going to want to live in an apartment or you're going to have a big enough family where it doesn't make sense. And so I would start planning for that day. And it starts today, my friend. >> That's awesome, dude.

>> Well, I appreciate that. Well, thank you for the uh thank you for that advice.

That's really helped. >> Hey, and and congrats for your new kid.

Congrats on you being a dad who is and a husband who is putting in two jobs to to put his family in a position where they're going to That's all. This is awesome. We don't get to talk to a lot of great dads and great husbands. You're one of those guys. And so it's it's an honor to talk to you, brother. >> And the fact that you've created $3,500 in margin just to throw at this savings, it just blows my mind. Fantastic. Very inspired, man. Thanks for the call.

Elizabeth is up next in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. What's going on, Elizabeth?

>> Hi. Um, my question is if I can afford to put my kids into a Catholic school.

>> Oo, what's that cost?

So it is about six to seven grand a year

is my understanding >> per child.

>> Per child. >> How many kids? >> And I So I have two kids and they won't need the first one wouldn't start for another year and a half.

>> Okay. Do you have 14 grand of net income

to throw at this without derailing any other financial goals?

Well, with with 30 dayc care costs, I

feel like my thought is that would just channel into what the cost of

Catholic school is. So, that I I feel

like we're making things work right now with daycare costs. So, >> when you say making things work, are things tight? Are do you guys have debt you're trying to pay off? Do you have savings? >> We just our mortgage to pay. Um, and I'd

say we're probably like pretty close to breaking even each month as far as expenses going out with mortgage and daycare and then uh just household

things. >> Are you investing right now, >> etc.? >> Yes. >> Okay. So, you're investing 15%, you have an emergency fund, you have no debt, you're doing the baby steps to a tea and but all the money is allocated to those places and right now you don't have extra money to throw at let's say the mortgage or toward kids college funds.

pretty pretty much. >> So, what's the plan with that stuff if this is the foreseeable future for the next I don't know 10 years?

>> That is a good question. Um, I mean, as

far as knowing that daycare currently with two kids is probably about 25 grand that I'm paying a year. I I would I see

the balance as okay, this isn't as expensive as that, so I should be able.

>> So the 10 grand you save, you could funnel toward, you know, 529 plans for college, throw a little bit at the mortgage. >> Okay. >> Correct. >> I mean, it sounds reasonable. What's your household income?

>> Uh about 160 a year. And my my husband is commissioned, so that his is a little bit more fluctuating.

>> It's variable. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's it's green flags for me. If this is a big value uh to you guys, it's a part of your faith and you want to do this and you have the money and it's not derailing your other financial goals, I'm good with it. Here here's what it's going to cost you though. Okay, I want to be sober about it.

>> Yes. >> Given the financial picture you just gave George and I, it it's or me and

George, it's going to cost you Y'all are going to be a Camry family.

>> Okay. and you're not going to go by the

big suburban and when you get into the middle school and high school and your kids are doing [music] sports and athletics and everyone's rolling up and new Escalades and stuff like that cuz that's a private school >> and going on vacations for fall break.

>> That's right. Y'all are going to this is this is enough of a value for y'all that it's going to be worth. We're going to be a used Camry family because this is that big of a deal to us. And [music] that's okay. That's amazing. I love that choice. But I want you to make those choices with sobriety, not always being

[music] like, "Man, we wish we had a different car. We need a bigger house." Nope. This was our value and this is what we chose.

[music]

Buying or selling your home is a big deal and there's a lot of clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there. So, we're here to make the latest trends easy to understand. Median home prices dipped a bit last month to about 426,000 and buyers have more options and negotiating power and sellers may be facing more competition right now.

Mortgage rates dipped slightly to 5 1.5% in September, which is giving buyers some breathing room. But since rates are unpredictable, the best time to buy is when you're financially ready, not when rates drop. So to learn more about housing market trends and get free tools to help you buy or sell with confidence, head to ramseyolutions.com/market or click the link in the show notes if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Ashley and Dan are up next in Virginia.

What's going on, guys?

>> Hi. So, we recently moved from the south

from Baton Rouge, Louisiana to Virginia.

>> We previously tithed. Thank you. We previously tithed at um a church that we

had been going to probably almost a decade in uh Baton Rouge and we haven't

found a church home yet. We've tried a couple and we've um been looking around and we just don't really know where to tithe. Um, I was a very strict tither and my husband Dan did probably like at the end of every year he would just do 10% of everything he made. He would don donate at the end of the year. So, we just don't know where we should tithe to now. >> Great question. Where where are you feeling convicted to give?

>> I really loved our church. We both

really loved our church that we used to go to. And if we're not together, if I

um go visit home or something, we'll still watch that church that's in Baton Rouge. And so that's where I tithed

until we started going somewhere new.

And then I gave one time um a tithe to

one of the churches that we went to because I felt like, you know, I probably should do something here in my local community instead of back home.

But now I just don't know since we haven't settled. M >> are there a bunch of kids in your community that just lost food benefits?

>> I don't believe so. I think Virginia is still um doing all the food benefits like statewide, >> but that is that is a consideration. The church that we have been going to has been giving a lot of money. I think in

um where they did $20,000 to communities

um that had lost or were at risk of losing food benefits.

>> Well, let me free you. There's no wrong way to give as long as you're doing it with a with a joyful spirit. And so, you're not going to screw this up. If you're asking the options, you could give to your old church for now. You could give to every new church you jump into on Sunday. You could stack it all

up and give at the end of the year. Maybe you find a a church home and you just save up all that money and and throw it at that new church that you call home. >> Or you can go find a local elementary school and say, "We hear there might be a gap in school breakfast and lunches and we want to be a part of filling that gap.

It's consider the spirit of the thing,

not the maybe the destination." Right.

>> Yes, that makes sense. That makes sense.

Yes.

I'm just proud of you guys. That's a really cool thing to say. This is a really important value to us and we want it to go somewhere and we just don't know exactly where until we land. And so >> keep George's words in your head, which is a sentence I've never said before.

>> Wow. >> You can't mess this up.

>> Generosity is Thank you so much.

>> Generosity is a posture. It's a way to do life, right?

>> Yeah. >> I think uh you're going to do the right thing. Whatever that thing is, whatever you do, it was the right thing. I want you to know that. John is in San Diego up next. John, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How can we help today?

>> Hey, yeah, thanks for jumping on with me. I just have quick question for you guys to see where to put some money and kind of pick your brain a little bit. I'm 20, excuse me, 30 years old. I live in San Diego, California. Um, I've got no debt at all. Uh, my company pays for my car. or I just have to pay the gas on it as well as very minimal monthly expenses and make about $300,000 a year

and have about $200,000 in savings. And I'm just curious to know if there's anything I can do to put this money anywhere to help save on taxes. I don't own any houses, anything like that. And also, I just feel like in San

Diego, it's kind of impossible to buy a house with what I've got going as well.

>> It's impossible to buy a house with what you've got going. What does that mean?

just like it the income that I have and the savings that I have and just the prices in San Diego have absolutely soared in my job. >> Okay. What So you're a single guy?

>> Yes. >> Okay. So, what does a small home in your area cost that you would want to buy?

Give us a number. >> Probably about 1.4.

>> Okay. So, how much would you need as a down payment to make that a manageable mortgage payment in your world?

Probably about seven grand I think would

be what it would be right now with 20% down which seems like a lot.

>> Okay. So 20% is is the goal. That's the number that would get you into a home.

>> Correct. I mean I'm just trying to avoid that PMI. But is that even smart to have to do as well or should I just look at other avenues like buying out of state to continue renting here or I don't know. I feel lost. >> Oh, you don't need a house right now.

You're a single guy. If you want a house that's fine. I don't know that you need a $ 1.4 million starter home. Now, I

know prices are insane out there. That's probably a starter home in San Diego, but you're telling me that it's impossible for a guy with no debt, with 200 grand saved, making $300,000 a year, that he'll never be able to afford a home in San Diego.

>> That I that's what it's seeming like.

>> And you said you have very little expenses. How much can you save per year at this point if you're living frugally and throwing most of your net income at at that savings goal?

>> Probably 80 to 100 >> out of 300. So you're saying 300 gross you net what? 180 or so

>> around there depending. It's variable. A lot of it's commissions. So between 250 and 300 >> 15 grand a month. could somehow figure out with no expenses and no debt how to scrape by on $80,000 by yourself.

>> Correct. >> I bet you could scrape by for less than for [laughter] less than >> ballpark though. You could throw $100,000 a year into the savings, right?

>> Mhm. >> So four years from now, you have $600,000 saved.

>> Mhm. >> I think that can get you a house.

>> So just hold off a little longer.

>> I will. >> Yeah. It's not like it's not a now or never >> in that meantime. Correct. Is there anything I can do in that meantime between now and the next four years to help me save on taxes?

>> Well, that's a different question.

Buying a house for a saving on taxes. If if you're a W2 employee, there's not a whole lot you can do. Now, you can max out a traditional 401k. That'll help a

little bit. >> Um, but there's not like some magic trick if you're W2. John and I pay a whole bunch of taxes. And I'll tell you this, you are in the I'll make up a

term. You're in the squash bracket where

if you made significantly less, there's programs to help you with taxes or to pay none. And if you made significantly more, you're in this big wild, it's a

whole another universe of buying a

property over here and moving it over here and triple stamping a double stamp.

You are in the squash where you are making a significant amount of money and you're getting crushed on taxes and you

live in >> okay >> one of the highest tax states in the country and you live in a really >> very high cost of living area >> high cost of living expensive place to live.

So you have three like really gnarly compounding variables on you. But this is a conversation folks who make and nobody has any sympathy, right? Nobody.

But people who are making 300 grand to 1 1.5 million are getting hammered on taxes because they're just below the big games that guys with tons of money play with tax money and they're just above any sort of relief program whatsoever.

>> Sure. >> So this is where you are. And um as one of my buddies once I I one time I called him and said, "Hey, this is I've never had this happen in my life. I had a book go number one." I called him and said, "I just need to tell one person, he's a banker, how much I spent in taxes last year." And he said, "Good God, that's a

lot." And then he goes, "Wait a minute, that means you make a bunch of money.

I'm never paying for drinks or nachos again." And we all started laughing. And so there is, yes, you're paying a bunch of taxes. You can smile at night knowing that the roads are getting taken care of and the firefighters are showing up and so be it. Or you can just beat yourself over the head every night. But either way, you're in that category that's paying a ton of taxes and there's no games to play or relief in your in your

bracket. I just keep stacking as much cash as possible. Keep living frugally and sooner or later you're going to have a half a million bucks. And I would get into the housing market when you can. I wouldn't wait a decade and I wouldn't do it tomorrow either. or you can move out to the suburbs. >> You're paying a lot of taxes and you're also winning incredibly.

>> Congratulations.

[music]

Jenna is in Florida up next. Jenna, welcome to the show. What's going on?

>> Yes. Hi. Uh, thank you so much for taking my call today. I was calling wanted to kind of seek some professional help. I wanted to see if there's ever

ever a point where there's just too much debt. We don't worry about the debt. We just say, "Hey, pay minimum till, you know, forever and just try to save up as

much money as you can so you can actually try to enjoy retirement and and life later on." >> You sound tired, Jenna.

>> Are you tired? >> Tired. Nervous about what you guys are going to say. >> I mean, you know what we're going to say. You called the Ramsey Show. But you're you're saying, "Hey, our debt is so insurmountable. Should we just ignore it and have a wonderful retirement?" I don't know how that thing leads to the other thing, >> right? Yeah. I >> like it doesn't go away.

>> So, either collectors come after you, sue you, or you file bankruptcy, it implodes your financial life for seven years. There's no like, well, can we just pretend it didn't happen?

>> Well, no. I mean, we would pay like just continue paying the the minimums. Um,

but then try to to also put money in savings. >> How how bad is it? How bad is it? Give us some numbers.

>> Okay, so we have a car uh 26,000 left on

my husband's car. Um, I have 47,000

in my student loans and then we have

475,000 in my husband's student loans and then

525 for the house. So, we've even like

we've been trying to run numbers.

Um, our budget, we have margin 3,000 left over. So, it's just >> Is your husband a physician?

>> Uh, yes. >> Okay. So, what's your household income?

So, our income is 16,000 a month.

>> Is that your take-home pay? That's what ends up in the bank? >> That's Yeah, that's what ends up in the bank every month is the 16,000.

>> Are you guys investing a single penny right now?

>> Um, I believe I'm putting like 6% in in um retirement and I think he's probably putting like 10%.

>> Okay. So, you're about to get 16% of your household income back if you pause investing.

>> Okay. >> Did you get a refund last year on your taxes or did you owe? No, we owed.

>> Okay. So, that's 16% right there of your

What's the household income? You said >> uh 16,000 a month. >> No. What's your gross gross household income for the year? Like what was your what did your tax return say you made?

>> Um my husband makes 250 and then I make

uh 70. So 340.

>> Okay. So if we do 340* 16, you just got

$55,000 back in your life.

>> Mhm. On top of the 3,000 a month

>> on top of >> That's $90,000 now that you can use to tackle debt. >> I've got more. >> He has to be an adult.

>> Mhm. >> And sell this car because he can't afford it.

>> Mhm. >> And he's going to be the doctor that parks at the very back of the lot >> in a used Corolla.

>> Yeah. >> I'm serious. And you know how I know this is possible? Because I was a guy with a PhD that drove a used Corolla and parked in the back of the lot.

>> I was the guy with a second PhD that drove a 94 F-150 that I bought for

$3,000 out of some guy's field in West Texas. >> Mhm. >> Right. >> Right. >> You know, I drive now, whatever I want.

>> Right. >> And then the other piece, you said 16,000 is what you guys take home. What are your actual monthly expenses you need just to keep the lights on and cover the minimum debt payments?

Yeah. So, that's kind of our mortgage is is 3500 a month. Um, after all of our

bills, um, private school, everything.

>> There we go. Ding, ding, ding. We just found a money maker.

>> A month. >> How much are you throwing at private school a month?

>> Um, 1,200.

>> Okay. >> All right. So, there's another $14,000 a year >> on top of the 90. Now, we're over $100,000 a year we can throw at the debt.

Okay. >> Are you seeing what we're doing here?

>> Yeah. >> And we're not even trying.

>> Mhm. >> We're just soft tossing right now. If we actually looked at your budget and said, "Here's your actual income, 16,000." Well, really, it's going to be more once you guys pause investing.

>> You're going to bring a few thousand back. So, let's call it 20,000.

>> And now, let's learn to live on seven.

>> Well, now there's 13 grand a month we can throw at the debt.

>> Right? >> Do you get that? That's 156 grand a year. And if he sells the car, you're down to, let's see, 47 plus the 475,

that's 522.

And we're going to be debtree in less than four years.

>> Mhm. >> And listen, >> right, because we've been like floated the idea of like selling our home, but we love our home. And >> you don't even have to do that because listen, I I've I've studied I've I've

I've worked through the mental health of physicians.

Yes. >> And it's not good. And I'm convinced

that this is one of the core issues is

physicians and their spouses. It's hell.

Seven years plus rotations, plus sleep, no sleep. >> Right? >> Plus matching, plus residency, all that stuff, and you finally get out and then you get that first check and you're like, "Finally, I can dot dot dot, >> right?" >> And then you add a whole bunch of crazy

stressors cuz we're doctors. We're supposed to be rich and

you're broke.

I've got people in my life who I love and care about who are working physicians who are still paying on their student loans and now they have kids in college.

>> Mhm. >> Madness. Madness.

>> Yeah. Right. And literally, it's you guys taking, and by the way, if he works extra shifts or picks up ER shifts, which I have buddies that do, >> he can cut this in half.

>> And you're talking about 24 months, 30 months, and you're free. And then you know what? Y'all are for real? Wealthy.

>> Mhm. >> Then you can live that doctor lifestyle.

>> Yeah. >> Y'all make 300 grand and you're broke.

>> I know it's embarrassing. Uh

Are you willing to do what we said? >> I don't think that's embarrassing. I think what's embarrassing is y'all are too smart to be this broke. Y'all are making daily choices to be miserable.

>> Mhm. >> You know what I mean? To be stressed out, >> right? >> How old are your kids?

>> Um, she's three and a half.

>> She's three and a half. She won't even know what day it is. You could pull her out and put her in a Tuesday Thursday score. I mean, in a in a Mother's Day Out program, >> five days a week at a church.

>> I mean, it's Elmer's glue and googly eyes. We don't really need private school to do that right now. >> Yeah. Good, man.

>> Be in a position to send her to whatever school you want in your community when she hits third grade, >> right?

No, I get it. It's just I guess our thought was the private schools are just so hard to get into. We just we had to start early. So, that's kind of where how we ended up here. They like it. They want you to be like, "You know what? Your three-year-old is good enough for us. Pay up." >> And if you don't get into this school when they're three, they won't get into that school when they're seven. If they don't get that, then they're >> It's none of that's true. Zero of that is true.

>> And by the way, after four years, he's a physician in your local community. He'll know somebody. Y'all will be fine.

>> Yeah. >> Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's reassuring because we were just running the numbers and we would just get frustrated and we would just say, you know what, it we're just have to pay minimum the rest of our life kind of thing. >> No, it's just going to be three years of y'all not acting like doctors, y'all acting like teachers.

>> Yeah. >> And which by the way is still a good life.

>> I think you'll realize how much of that stuff you didn't really need and how exciting it is to be on the path to freedom instead of a path to hopelessness, which is what it is now.

Well, we'll just make min minimum payments. will end up paying a million dollars for his student loans that were $475 because we just let the interest build up and build up while we didn't attack the principal. And I just think you're you're worth more than that and you're worth being out of debt in the next three years and having the next 30 of freedom. Can I guilt trip you for a second? >> Sure. Go ahead. >> I'm going to guilt trip you, but I'm really just sending this message out to anyone listening. Mhm.

>> I actually don't want my physician, the person that I go to when I'm not I'm not okay. Or let me make it let me one up it. When my daughter's not okay, >> I don't want that guy

stressed out of his mind because he can't breathe at his house.

>> I don't want that woman, that physician that I bring my daughter to. I don't want her shaking while she's looking at my daughter because her bills are so high and she can barely make her payments, but her kids in the right school and she's got a nice depreciating asset out in the parking lot and she has a spouse that is working and also making 70 grand, which is an amazing salary. I don't I don't I want a person in [music] who's holding my daughter to exhale and

be completely autonomous so they can make the next right decision for my daughter, not the one that's [music] going to get them the most payout, so they can make this payment. So they can make

our scripture of the day, Proverbs 13:3.

Those who guard their lips preserve their lives, but those who speak rashly will come to ruin. Less Paul said, "Don't say you can't until you prove you

can't." >> At a boy James, Les Paul of the great Gibson guitar. If >> you didn't know, Deloney is a big less Paul Gibson guitar fan.

>> James is a Fender guy, which >> to each his own. It's >> kind of all you need to know. Oh, you are too. >> I like both. I think they both have their, you know, >> right? >> I like Gibson for acoustic.

Switzerland. You like cold brews, too. That's a whole other thing. >> All right. Ryan is in Oregon up next.

What's going on, Ryan? Welcome to the Ramsay Show.

>> Thanks for having me. Uh, I have a question for you, please. I'm a permanently um disabled veteran, so I'm

on a fixed income from the VA for the

rest of my life. And

with a wife and three kids in the economy, it's been a challenge trying to save for retirement and trying to pay off my home. And I'm wondering if you have any ideas on how I can possibly

save more or get higher in steps and whatnot.

>> What's the nature of your disability, brother?

>> Uh 100% I shattered both my legs, my

ankles, and part of my back.

>> Oh my goodness.

Well, on behalf of the regular civilians who are just going about our lives and don't realize the day in and day out pain you you experience on our behalf.

Thank you.

>> You're welcome. >> That didn't put money in your account and that doesn't make your pain go away, but I want to just tell you thank you. >> Yeah. >> Appreciate you. >> Thanks. >> Wow. So, what what is your fixed income?

>> So, I get 4,200 a month. Um I have a

wife and three kids. my wife has to stay

home with me because I unfortunately need a lot of help. Um,

so, you know, with the price of everything and, you know, mortgage, a a

a car, three children, there's just none

left and I'm having a hard time saving.

>> Yeah, I I just it just escaped my mind

and I can take a bunch of time on this call looking it up, but I won't do that.

There's a program um one of my closest friends in the world um is a part of it where um he gets paid for taking care of his disabled brother.

>> Mhm. >> Um have you all applied for that program? >> We have. Yes, we're waiting for that.

>> Oh, waiting for it. Okay. That's that tends to be a huge relief.

>> Yeah. >> I hope you guys get approved for that for sure because that'll help increase the income. So, what are your current expenses every month? Are you guys doing a budget?

>> Absolutely. um cash flow system. Um and that's

obviously helped a lot because we know exactly where each dollar is going. Uh

and we were able to fine-tune that. But I have a mortgage.

>> Um I [clears throat] live >> it is 2,200 plus I it's an HOA so I pay

an HOA fee on top.

>> Yeah. Um, then all utilities of course I

drive if I do ever drive just a free,

you know, beater old Honda. And then my wife, we do have one auto loan out for her. >> How much is left on that?

>> Um, $19,000 left on that.

>> What's the payment? >> Uh, the payment is $390.

>> Okay. So, if you've got if you got rid of that car and had a cash car, you could then at least invest the 390.

Mhm. >> Is there any money left over right now as it stands or are you guys in the hole or you just be able to cover the bills with that 4200?

>> I'm able to cover the bills. I have about $10,000 in savings that I've been able to come up with, but I mean that's over years because there's just not a lot. Uh so I do have that. Um but we

also need a new roof.

>> So, you know, I'm do I paint off the

car? Do I, you know, I got to get the roof? you know, so there's just it's very challenging. >> How how urgent is the roof? Is this like tomorrow or is this 3 years from now >> within the next 6 months?

>> Okay. I would continue stacking cash and get through the storm with the roof and then we'll take a look at the car and see if it's worth selling that downsizing into a cash car or saving up.

So, I think that payment will at least free you guys to invest something. The other glaring issue is that most of your income is going toward your mortgage and HOA.

Right. >> So, is this housing situation the long-term play or can we find something more affordable?

>> The big thing is I don't know if I was

to sell my home. Yes, I have equity. I there everything else is is even more.

Yeah. >> So, I don't even know what I could get into that would even save me much.

>> Here's what I'm hearing though, bro.

You're doing you are squeezing blood out

of a rock every month. Right.

>> Most of the people who call into this show, there's like the last caller we just talked to, there's money everywhere. Right.

>> Right. >> That's not you. And so, like, the

harrowing part of this conversation is like you have a math problem. Y'all are doing amazing with what you got.

>> And so, the challenge here is >> well, it's just it's very hard to keep squeezing the same tomato over and over.

>> Absolutely. And that's where you have to ask way more e what I would say more existential questions which is we're in Oregon which is an expensive place to live and it's a high tax area >> right. >> Do we have to move to Kansas because that's the world that's the cards we're holding right now in our hand.

>> True. Yes. >> I wouldn't wish that on you but I don't I don't know like >> Right. And then also with the VA system how's the VA in Kansas? You know what I mean compared to >> Yeah. I have no idea. So that's a really big factor where I would live is based on the VA care systems around because they're not all the same. >> Totally. And that's going to be one of the that's like that energy you have, that desperation you have, which dude, I can hear it in your voice, man. Um like

and it breaks my heart because you're a you're a dad who gave everything for all of our kids and you're looking at this

like you have a very clear trajectory for yourself >> which is I cannot work and this is the amount of money we have right now. hopefully you get approved for that program. Um, which would give a ton of relief to your family. But without that, like y'all have to make a hard decision about I got to get on the phone and call all my buddies and find the best VAS in the country and see if I can find the lowest cost of living and that might pull you away from family and resources and friends.

I get all of that. That's a nightmare. But like you said, dude, this this tomato is running out of juice. And tell me about your kids.

uh 15, 10, and seven.

>> Okay. So, I mean, you know this as well as I do. I have a 15-year-old and nine-year-old. You're one fun afternoon away from a broken arm, right?

>> Oh, sure. >> Or whatever. Like running into a tree just having a good time. And so, and then bam, there goes like, so you're I get that I can hear it in you in your voice. You're you're on a razor's edge.

>> Yeah. >> The only thing I can see right now is y'all have to ask yourself way bigger questions. Or can your wife go earn 150 grand doing something? And again, I'm just making that up. And y'all can hire care for you. That might be the other way to gap it.

>> I wish that was possible, but that's not either. >> God almighty. >> There's only two ways to get margin here. It's to spend less and make more.

And you guys have done a lot to spend less and we can get rid of the car payment at least, which will free up some breathing room. And on the other side, we got to figure out, can we make more? And maybe that's through her being a caretaker. And that gives you the breathing room you need.

And then we can look at okay what are the best investment options now without earned income which your VA disability I don't believe counts as earned income correct >> correct >> so you can't invest in an IRA because you need earned income to do that but you can invest in a taxable brokerage account that's non-retirement and if your wife does end up making money she can open a spousal IRA and invest in that which has some tax advantages and then you've also got a high yield savings account you can take advantage of for your emergency fund syncing funds the roof fund all of that.

So, there is a path forward, but there's some variables here that feel immovable right now that we've got to figure out and that's going to that's going to be the hardest part. >> And tell me about your your disability benefits. Is there a and and brother, I know you've thought through every one of these things.

>> Do you have the ability to to work from home or to side hustle from home?

>> No. And I legally can't.

>> Okay. Okay, that that was my question with the if you if you were to get a online job some shape, form or fashion, you lose your benefits, right?

>> Bingo. >> Okay. Jeez Louise, man. What a nightmare, dude. >> I'm so sorry you're going through this, Ryan. There's no magic wand here for you, but I'm glad we could at least sit with it and help you brainstorm.

>> Yeah. No, and I've kind of looked at every, you know, avenue. Um,

I just wanted to ask just to me cuz I listen to you guys all the time.

>> We might have an idea then it's going to be you. >> I I would kind of give it a timeline for you guys to try to navigate all this, try to increase the income, try to solve it. And if you can't, it's going to mean bigger life change like we talked about with lower cost of living. Where could we go to lower our [music] expenses?

If this 4,200 a month, this is it. This is all we have, then we got to get our expenses lower and that might mean moving across the country. I hate that you're in this situation, brother. I hate it.

>> All right. Until next time, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the prince of peace, Christ Jesus.

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